NewLiberty



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LegendaryActivity: 1204Merit: 1001Gresham's Lawyer Re: New Bitcoin COLD HARD CASH by the makers of New Liberty Dollar August 07, 2013, 07:22:50 PM

Last edit: October 24, 2013, 03:03:01 AM by NewLiberty #3



The goals of this project are many. Here are some of the top items on our bucket list of what we hope to accomplish with this offering:



Create a durable and attractive specie for Bitcoin.

Provide a floor backing in hard physical asset for Bitcoin as a global currency with a distributed decentralized bank, all the holders of specie.

We wanted this to be a pocket-friendly piece, for easy daily carry as pocket change.

Pieces ought to be easily carried and useful for trade at point of sale without worry about damaging the piece, or waiting for confirmations.

Offer low-priced intrinsically-valuable high production volume quality piece that would be numismaticly attractive and innovative.

Provide options for the collector community without pulling any Bitcoins out of circulation in the blockchain.

Provide a means to swiftly and assertively present an accurate current value as both precious metal and bitcoin can suffer price volatility

Support both completely anonymous and non-anonymous transactions through total fungibility (most previous physical bitcoins are individually unique and serialized) just like paper currencies.

Support a definitive unit of account.

Provide a bridge to non-bitcoin users so that the bitcoin economy may expand through the use of this innovative project.

Global attractiveness, there should be something for everyone within the design, to encourage the peaceful prosperity that common units of trade have done through out the ages.

Sold at volume, these should be available at a slight discount to displayed trade value so as to engender an organic distribution network of folks naturally compensated for providing that distribution service to their local community.

Provide a commensurate but better value for money than was traditionally offered by the strongest specie offered by nations of old (US silver coins were 90% silver and 80% weight yielding 72% value for seigniorage). Ours are starting at 75% and projected to increase.

Support the capability of conversion to any currency, crypto or fiat that a recipient of a trade may chose to honor, globally.

We do not seek to compete with any of the other physical crypto-currency available, but to provide a complementary offering. We owe a debt of gratitude to the previous offerings that have helped to foster the Bitcoin economy from early days. These are fundamentally different in an important way, they do not have any bitcoins embedded within them, they are fine gold and silver pieces denominated in Bitcoin.



The advantages of bitcoin and bullion are relatively opposite, but by unifying them, each gain strength from the other.

Bullion pieces are most useful in person and locally. Shipping them is costly, requires security, and delay.

Bitcoin is less useful at point of sale, requires time to confirm, but Bitcoin is the best there is for long distance transactions.

Bitcoin's value is consensus based, not backed, and not intrinsic. Bullion is the opposite.

The hope is that by providing this offering we create a way to unify these, and in so doing make each better than they could be alone.





The idea is that these specie can be used at a point of sale for trade value (barter money) in the same way that a crypro currency can, but with folks that have never used or wanted any bitcoin... It is a physical object, valuable to everyone, and as silver and gold are great conductors it will be warm out of your pocket but cold as it quickly offers up its heat.

Drop it into someone's palm and it will glisten with a nice BTC on it. Flip it over and scan the QR code and show the current value of it in bitcoin (or dollar/euro/litecoin/yen...) and make your trade.



The recipient of it will be enticed to scan it to show it to their friends, and they will see the price of bitcoin change over time. They may wish that they had taken the bitcoin instead of the silver. They may also be happy that they took the silver instead of the local fiat. So they won't be entirely disappointed.





We hope you will let us know how we are doing after you learn more about this project. Thank you for the kind words. As the project matures, we are very interested in the input from this, our community, so that we may refine and improve. This thread is not self-moderated and so we also look forward to criticisms and healthy debate. The best solutions are those that are based on the desires of the group they are designed to serve. In this case that is you who are reading this now. We have taken input from many here already (you know who you are!) and looking forward to more.The goals of this project are many. Here are some of the top items on our bucket list of what we hope to accomplish with this offering:We do not seek to compete with any of the other physical crypto-currency available, but to provide a complementary offering. We owe a debt of gratitude to the previous offerings that have helped to foster the Bitcoin economy from early days. These are fundamentally different in an important way, they do not have any bitcoins embedded within them, they are fine gold and silver pieces denominated in Bitcoin.The advantages of bitcoin and bullion are relatively opposite, but by unifying them, each gain strength from the other.Bullion pieces are most useful in person and locally. Shipping them is costly, requires security, and delay.Bitcoin is less useful at point of sale, requires time to confirm, but Bitcoin is the best there is for long distance transactions.Bitcoin's value is consensus based, not backed, and not intrinsic. Bullion is the opposite.The hope is that by providing this offering we create a way to unify these, and in so doing make each better than they could be alone.The idea is that these specie can be used at a point of sale for trade value (barter money) in the same way that a crypro currency can, but with folks that have never used or wanted any bitcoin... It is a physical object, valuable to everyone, and as silver and gold are great conductors it will be warm out of your pocket but cold as it quickly offers up its heat.Drop it into someone's palm and it will glisten with a niceon it. Flip it over and scan the QR code and show the current value of it in bitcoin (or dollar/euro/litecoin/yen...) and make your trade.The recipient of it will be enticed to scan it to show it to their friends, and they will see the price of bitcoin change over time. They may wish that they had taken the bitcoin instead of the silver. They may also be happy that they took the silver instead of the local fiat.So they won't be entirely disappointed.We hope you will let us know how we are doing after you learn more about this project. FREE MONEY 1 Bitcoin for Silver and Gold NewLibertyDollar.com and now

Bulk premiums as low as .0012 BTC "BETTER, MORE COLLECTIBLE, AND CHEAPER THAN SILVER EAGLES" 1 Free of Government Bitcoin for Silver and Gold BITCOIN SPECIE (silver 1 ozt) shows value by QR Bulk premiums as low as .0012 BTC "BETTER, MORE COLLECTIBLE, AND CHEAPER THAN SILVER EAGLES"

NewLiberty



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LegendaryActivity: 1204Merit: 1001Gresham's Lawyer Re: New Bitcoin Specie by the makers of New Liberty Dollar August 07, 2013, 08:01:45 PM

Last edit: November 23, 2013, 04:18:29 PM by NewLiberty #5 Quote from: KingOfSports on August 07, 2013, 07:39:06 PM Definitely want one of these if the price isn't beyond reason. Prices similar to Casascius's prices would be good.



First, please understand that these are not like the Casascius coins in that these do not contain bitcoins. These are silver pieces denominated in Bitcoin.



They will be far less expensive, closer to one ounce silver spot price in BTC + a small premium based on quantity to compensate for those of you who will engage in distribution. (You should be able to make money by spending these.)

Though if they are at all like the New Liberty Dollar sales, most sales will be in quantity >100.



If you just want one, chances are that you can get it for less from someone near you who bought a lot more than one.



These pieces are not really made primarily for the collectors, but to be USEFUL commercially with easily determinable barter value (just like Bitcoin has with its exchanges). They are designed to be trade-worthy, and pocket-friendly rather than sitting on a shelf. We don't want you to fret if they accidentally go through the washing machine, they should still work just fine. First, please understand that these are not like the Casascius coins in that these do not contain bitcoins. These are silver pieces denominated in Bitcoin.They will be far less expensive, closer to one ounce silver spot price in BTC + a small premium based on quantity to compensate for those of you who will engage in distribution. (You should be able to make money by spending these.)Though if they are at all like the New Liberty Dollar sales, most sales will be in quantity >100.If you just want one, chances are that you can get it for less from someone near you who bought a lot more than one.These pieces are not really made primarily for the collectors, but to be USEFUL commercially with easily determinable barter value (just like Bitcoin has with its exchanges). They are designed to be trade-worthy, and pocket-friendly rather than sitting on a shelf. We don't want you to fret if they accidentally go through the washing machine, they should still work just fine. FREE MONEY 1 Bitcoin for Silver and Gold NewLibertyDollar.com and now

Bulk premiums as low as .0012 BTC "BETTER, MORE COLLECTIBLE, AND CHEAPER THAN SILVER EAGLES" 1 Free of Government Bitcoin for Silver and Gold BITCOIN SPECIE (silver 1 ozt) shows value by QR Bulk premiums as low as .0012 BTC "BETTER, MORE COLLECTIBLE, AND CHEAPER THAN SILVER EAGLES"

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LegendaryActivity: 1204Merit: 1001Gresham's Lawyer Re: New Physical Bitcoin by the makers of New Liberty Dollar August 07, 2013, 09:07:16 PM #6 Quote from: odolvlobo on August 07, 2013, 08:39:15 PM From what I can tell, this is not really a "physical bitcoin". It is a silver "medallion" whose value in BTC is readily available. In other words, its value is the value of the silver it contains and nothing else (except for perhaps its collectibility).



I guess that is why you write that it doesn't compete with current physical bitcoins.



Yes. Your understanding looks accurate. That was one of our goals, not to compete but to be in a different and new market space. They are not useful as wallets, or as containers for bitcoin in the way that other pieces are. They are not unique, each is the same as all the others.



In the same way that a silver dollar does not contain a paper dollar within it, there is nothing contained within these. They are only what they are.

I think of them as "Cold Hard Cash".



If we ought reserve the term "Physical Bitcoin" for pieces that can function as wallets with tamper-evident holograms, then these would not qualify.

Perhaps calling it Bitcoin Specie would be more accurate nomenclature? It would be best to avoid confusion. The "Physical Bitcoin" descriptor was created by the BitcoinMagazine article. Folks will describe them in ways that make sense to them.



Additionally, with one of these to check current value, other pieces may be included in a trade that of similar composition but of different maker. So a "used" physical bitcoin could be traded as a fair value by checking the QR for example on one of these. Yes. Your understanding looks accurate. That was one of our goals, not to compete but to be in a different and new market space. They are not useful as wallets, or as containers for bitcoin in the way that other pieces are. They are not unique, each is the same as all the others.In the same way that a silver dollar does not contain a paper dollar within it, there is nothing contained within these. They are only what they are.I think of them as "Cold Hard Cash".If we ought reserve the term "Physical Bitcoin" for pieces that can function as wallets with tamper-evident holograms, then these would not qualify.Perhaps calling it Bitcoin Specie would be more accurate nomenclature? It would be best to avoid confusion. The "Physical Bitcoin" descriptor was created by the BitcoinMagazine article. Folks will describe them in ways that make sense to them.Additionally, with one of these to check current value, other pieces may be included in a trade that of similar composition but of different maker. So a "used" physical bitcoin could be traded as a fair value by checking the QR for example on one of these. FREE MONEY 1 Bitcoin for Silver and Gold NewLibertyDollar.com and now

Bulk premiums as low as .0012 BTC "BETTER, MORE COLLECTIBLE, AND CHEAPER THAN SILVER EAGLES" 1 Free of Government Bitcoin for Silver and Gold BITCOIN SPECIE (silver 1 ozt) shows value by QR Bulk premiums as low as .0012 BTC "BETTER, MORE COLLECTIBLE, AND CHEAPER THAN SILVER EAGLES"

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LegendaryActivity: 1204Merit: 1001Gresham's Lawyer Re: New Physical Bitcoin by the makers of New Liberty Dollar August 08, 2013, 06:10:03 PM #10



There are some elements suggested against bitcoin being money:

https://www.courthousenews.com/2013/08/06/Bitcoin.pdf

One being that it is not regulated by a central bank, and the other being that there is no specie or precious metal.



I'm not interested at all in the first, central banking, but the second, absence of specie, is close to my heart.

For this opinion, the memo relies upon

The authoritative version available at



Notwithstanding this argument by Pirate that bitcoin is not money, there does exist some examples of specie, such as the Casascius physical bitcoins, many of which are also precious metal.



The step proposed in this project (which incidentally is almost completed and ready for sale which is why it is here in "goods" rather than in "projects") is for a pure specie offering. As these pieces become more widely available, they can form a type of decentralized backing for bitcoin (even though bitcoin needs no backing). Because we will accept bitcoin as payment in purchase for the specie (as well as anyone else might do the same, we are not patenting anything), this creates a type of ad-hoc backing of bitcoin with precious metal.



Further, in order to most widely spread this, we are setting prices as close as possible to actual costs, while leaving a little margin for those that volunteer to purchase at wholesale and aggregate sales for a locality. Bitcoin users, coin dealers, miners, and anyone with a local bitcoin community can play this role simply by purchasing in enough quantity to get the lowest premiums. This will allow the high volume purchaser to get "Bitcoin Cold Hard Cash" (We are adopting this nomenclature to distinguish from the "Physical Bitcoin" term used for Casascius, but please feel free and welcome to call them whatever you think appropriate.) In the recent judicial opinion memorandum on the Pirateat40 case...There are some elements suggested against bitcoin being money:One being that it is not regulated by a central bank, and the other being that there is no specie or precious metal.I'm not interested at all in the first, central banking, but the second, absence of specie, is close to my heart.For this opinion, the memo relies upon http://illinoisjltp.com/journal/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Dion.pdf which in turn relies upon an unpublished version of the Satoshi white paper that states: 'the Bitcoin system does not require any backing or trust'.The authoritative version available at http://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf does not include this statement.Notwithstanding this argument by Pirate that bitcoin is not money, there does exist some examples of specie, such as the Casascius physical bitcoins, many of which are also precious metal. https://www.casascius.com/ The step proposed in this project (which incidentally is almost completed and ready for sale which is why it is here in "goods" rather than in "projects") is for a pure specie offering. As these pieces become more widely available, they can form a type of decentralized backing for bitcoin (even though bitcoin needs no backing). Because we will accept bitcoin as payment in purchase for the specie (as well as anyone else might do the same, we are not patenting anything), this creates a type of ad-hoc backing of bitcoin with precious metal.Further, in order to most widely spread this, we are setting prices as close as possible to actual costs, while leaving a little margin for those that volunteer to purchase at wholesale and aggregate sales for a locality. Bitcoin users, coin dealers, miners, and anyone with a local bitcoin community can play this role simply by purchasing in enough quantity to get the lowest premiums. This will allow the high volume purchaser to get "Bitcoin Cold Hard Cash" (We are adopting this nomenclature to distinguish from the "Physical Bitcoin" term used for Casascius, but please feel free and welcome to call them whatever you think appropriate.) FREE MONEY 1 Bitcoin for Silver and Gold NewLibertyDollar.com and now

Bulk premiums as low as .0012 BTC "BETTER, MORE COLLECTIBLE, AND CHEAPER THAN SILVER EAGLES" 1 Free of Government Bitcoin for Silver and Gold BITCOIN SPECIE (silver 1 ozt) shows value by QR Bulk premiums as low as .0012 BTC "BETTER, MORE COLLECTIBLE, AND CHEAPER THAN SILVER EAGLES"

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LegendaryActivity: 1204Merit: 1001Gresham's Lawyer Re: New Bitcoin COLD HARD CASH by the makers of New Liberty Dollar August 08, 2013, 08:30:54 PM

Last edit: August 29, 2013, 02:52:16 PM by NewLiberty #14 Quote from: worldtreasurefinders on August 08, 2013, 07:21:17 PM Just to clarify - these coins do not have any actual BTC value in them at all - they are silver rounds only, deriving their value from being made of silver. I like the QR code concept on the coin, but everyone should know if you buy these, you're not investing in BTC, you're investing in silver.



YES. THANK YOU. This deserves repeating. This is not bitcoin, it may be considered a type of bitcoin specie. For that, it may provide a new hard money backing for bitcoin (to the extent that bitcoin may be redeemed/exchanged for it). It is silver only (and soon gold as well). The value of bitcoin and these COLD HARD CASH pieces are however not bound to each other except for those that may voluntarily trade one for the other, and for this trade the QR displays the recommended trade value based on the current exchange pricing. There is also .025 BTC emblazoned on the obverse as a recommended trade value (and to commemorate the value of Silver/BTC in 2013).



Chainsaw:

Days to weeks. I'll announce a first day of issue date which might be a week or ten days out from the announcement and take pre-orders up to that date. There will likely be some specials available for quantity purchases on or before first day of issue that will not be available later. The OP will be updated with order instructions when the time comes for that.

Progress is continuing:

Initial marketing pieces are being minted, final touches are being put on the QR landing page.

Other website development is needed as well, but can proceed once these basics are solid and tested out. I am as eager as you are to progress!



Dwdoc:

Some folks like the tarnish (more properly called "toning") on silver pieces, others not. They can be put in Airtites, or lacquered for preservation if you don't like tarnish, but they should do just fine with normal wear and use as pocket pieces too. OR you can wait for the gold pieces. Gold does not tarnish at all. YES. THANK YOU. This deserves repeating. This is not bitcoin, it may be considered a type of bitcoin specie. For that, it may provide a new hard money backing for bitcoin (to the extent that bitcoin may be redeemed/exchanged for it). It is silver only (and soon gold as well). The value of bitcoin and these COLD HARD CASH pieces are however not bound to each other except for those that may voluntarily trade one for the other, and for this trade the QR displays the recommended trade value based on the current exchange pricing. There is also .025 BTC emblazoned on the obverse as a recommended trade value (and to commemorate the value of Silver/BTC in 2013).Chainsaw:Days to weeks. I'll announce a first day of issue date which might be a week or ten days out from the announcement and take pre-orders up to that date. There will likely be some specials available for quantity purchases on or before first day of issue that will not be available later. The OP will be updated with order instructions when the time comes for that.Progress is continuing:Initial marketing pieces are being minted, final touches are being put on the QR landing page.Other website development is needed as well, but can proceed once these basics are solid and tested out. I am as eager as you are to progress!Dwdoc:Some folks like the tarnish (more properly called "toning") on silver pieces, others not. They can be put in Airtites, or lacquered for preservation if you don't like tarnish, but they should do just fine with normal wear and use as pocket pieces too. OR you can wait for the gold pieces. Gold does not tarnish at all. FREE MONEY 1 Bitcoin for Silver and Gold NewLibertyDollar.com and now

Bulk premiums as low as .0012 BTC "BETTER, MORE COLLECTIBLE, AND CHEAPER THAN SILVER EAGLES" 1 Free of Government Bitcoin for Silver and Gold BITCOIN SPECIE (silver 1 ozt) shows value by QR Bulk premiums as low as .0012 BTC "BETTER, MORE COLLECTIBLE, AND CHEAPER THAN SILVER EAGLES"