Time Warner Still Pretending Core, Last Mile Fiber The Same It's certainly cheaper than broadly deploying DOCSIS 3.0 quote:

It's more misleading than lying, and Time Warner Cable certainly isn't alone in the practice. Advertisers from carriers like Cox and Charter also try to conflate DOCSIS 2.0 cable and fiber to the home, despite knowing there's a clear and substantial difference. Phone companies play this game as well, Qwest doing their best to pretend that their ADSL2+/FTTN service is actually " Instead of quickly deploying DOCSIS 3.0 technology like Comcast, Time Warner Cable decided to fight off Verizon FiOS with a new campaign that intentionally confuses consumers by blurring the line between last mile and core network fiber. Their latest website informs consumers that Time Warner Cable "gives you fiber optics without the hassle," but avoids the fact that last mile fiber offers much faster speeds than TWC's current DOCSIS 2.0 network. Forum users note that the company is also pitching cable as "fiber" in new promotional leaflets that have completely stopped using the word "cable":It's more misleading than lying, and Time Warner Cable certainly isn't alone in the practice. Advertisers from carriers like Cox and Charter also try to conflate DOCSIS 2.0 cable and fiber to the home, despite knowing there's a clear and substantial difference. Phone companies play this game as well, Qwest doing their best to pretend that their ADSL2+/FTTN service is actually " Super High-Speed Fiber-Optic Internet Service " as they do battle with municipal FTTH operators in Utah.







News Jump Stark New Reality In The Telco Business: Dumb Pipes No Longer Cut It; AT&T Unveils Mix and Match Plans; + more news AT&T Extends Overage Charge Waiver; Verizon And T-Mobile Each Insist Their 5G Strategy Is The Right One; + more news War Of Words Heats Up: T-Mobile Fires Back At Verizon, AT&T; Amazon Intros Gaming Service To Take On Stadia; + more news Starlink's Network Faces Huge Limitations; AT&T Whines T-Mobile Merger Put Too Much Spectrum In One Place; + more news WISPs Get CBRS Range As Great As Six Miles At 100 Mbps Speeds; Windstream Officially Exits Bankruptcy; + more news Charter Relaunches Free 60-day Internet And Wi-Fi Offer; NCTA: FCC Should Stick With 25/3 Speed Threshold; + more news Comcast Shuts Off Internet for Subs Who Were Sold Service Illegally; AT&T, Verizon Team To Stop T-Mobile 5G; + more news California Defends Its Net Neutrality Law; AT&T's Traffic Up 20% Despite Data Traffic Actually Being Down; + more news Are The Comcast-Charter X1 Talks Dead In The Water?; AT&T May Offer Phone Plans With Ads For Discounts; + more news Europe's Top Court: Net Neutrality Rules Bar Zero Rating; ViacomCBS To Rebrand CBS All Access As Paramount+; + more news ---------------------- this week last week most discussed view:

topics flat nest tmc8080

join:2004-04-24

Brooklyn, NY tmc8080 Member head to head customers in NYC know the deal where FIOS and TWC high speed compete in the same footprint. cablemodems do NOT compare to FTTP throughput 24/7/365. Fiber is dedicated provisioning, Docsis 1-3 is NOT dedicated provisioning in the last mile. You will pay MORE though, that's the reality of the matter... so if the dedicated speed means more to you or you get crap service from the cable provider, AND you have the cash to spare.. your choice is clear. When docsis 3 rolls around, they can make it a more enticing deal, but not likely-- they'll just be a good enough alternative to what Verizon does, not beat them on overall throughput & price.

Kickrox

Premium Member

join:2002-08-18

Brooklyn, NY Kickrox Premium Member Re: head to head A few years ago I was satisfied with Time Warner.



I moved and was able to get Cable Vision service I was extremely pleased.



Now I'm back in an area that's TW and they freakin' suck (IMO)nowadays. In the early mornings my speeds are some what ok. Anytime after 12am forget it... traffic city. My speeds are often less than 3Mbits.



I miss CV. personin626

join:2008-11-23 personin626 Member Re: head to head FiOS just started getting layed about 3-4 miles south of here. They are sweeping the area from there to the north, and im in the way. In about 7mos. I say, they will be down here, once its all done and ready, im calling TWC and saying bye bye. Last night, the latency was horrific. I went to my friends house and had no problems connecting from his DSL line. I envy my friend and his sweet DSL line. nasadude

join:2001-10-05

Rockville, MD nasadude Member it's the american (business) way in non-competitive markets, businesses like to use lawyers, misleading advertising and confusing tiers and bundling against what little competition exists.



apparently, competing on price and services is too hard or too expensive. dannydee9

join:2008-12-26

Flushing, NY dannydee9 Member Re: it's the american (business) way dialup is lower latency and faster than cable here at times.

tubbynet

reminds me of the danse russe

MVM

join:2008-01-16

Gilbert, AZ tubbynet to nasadude

MVM to nasadude

said by nasadude:



apparently, competing on price and services doesn't line the pockets of management and stockholders enough

apparently, competing on price and services



q. fixed it for you. corporate greed at its best.q.

n2jtx

join:2001-01-13

Glen Head, NY n2jtx Member FiOS Here FiOS lines were installed in my neighborhood this summer but I have yet to see any advertising for it. I still get ads from Verizon to sign up for their DSL service and nothing about video. My guess is it is still not lit up around here and CV has not taken any pains to "warn" us about FiOS.

Dogfather

Premium Member

join:2007-12-26

Laguna Hills, CA Dogfather Premium Member Liars, plain and simple I see those BS claims from Cox and TWC all the time. The best is when they start talking about FiOS "lawn trama". LOL. Rick5

Premium Member

join:2001-02-06 Rick5 Premium Member Re: Liars, plain and simple While I won't say that Verizon is lying..isn't it a stretch to promote something in the manner that they are that so few of their customers can get today and that many won't see for years and years?



I'd call that Vapo~Fiber at best.

Dogfather

Premium Member

join:2007-12-26

Laguna Hills, CA Dogfather Premium Member Re: Liars, plain and simple Advertising FiOS isn't any different than them advertising their phone service. They target customers who can get it to try and get them to buy it. Cable does the same thing. Time Warner advertises on our local LA affiliates while certainly everyone watching isn't in a TWC service area.



That is quite a different thing that saying you have a fiber network when you don't. Pictor Guy

join:2004-06-21

Sammamish, WA Pictor Guy Member +20% increase? My kids love Noggin too but lets Viacom eat it. This is nothing more than a negotiation tactic. Viacom must not be reading the headlines. Lets them ask for a huge increase and I hope the TWC drops Viacom. If TWC increases rates for this then watch more people dump cable in favor of other forms of entertainment. I can get most Viacom shows on Netflix anyway. Rick5

Premium Member

join:2001-02-06 Rick5 Premium Member I can't help but to see it differently 11 years ago...count em..11...I had RR service.



And that was made possible because Time Warner built out their network with fiber. In the years that followed TW...and the whole cable industry as a whole...spent a reported 100 Billion dollars on these networks.



But yet..now the presumption is..they shouldn't be able to talk about it?



Verizon comes along..makes it a buzz word..but yet TW is supposed to sit silent about what they did..years earlier?



Coaxial cable when combined with fiber to the node in what is referred to as a HFC network is a VERY effective medium in which to deliver HSI over. It is not fiber to some old twisted pair..aka Uverse..that we're talking about.

TW has continually stayed at the forefront in terms of speeds over the years..and today offers very competitive speeds and services..even compared to fios which should be noted..is STILL a very minor portion of Verizons total network. If anyones been pumping up the propaganda..I think it's Verizon given how SMALL a service area they actually serve with Fios as of right now. And..how many years it will be to completion.



One also has to consider the real world usage of an internet connection. Just because someone has a 20Mb fios connection doesn't mean that it's always going to be faster than someone on a TW connection. There are many factors to consider. And the plans that not only TW offers..but most cable operators as well..are extremely competitive with the best that fios offers today. In the limited markets it does offer it.



This doesn't mean that I don't think that TW should move swiftly ahead with docsis 3.0. Because I do. But all things considered..they're not behind the curve when compared to the totality of the telco's networks.



And I think they have every right to talk about their fiber as well.



After all..they were a decade ahead of the telcos installing it. Austinloop

join:2001-08-19

Austin, TX Austinloop Member Re: I can't help but to see it differently Here in Austin, the first fiber went into the telco plant in the mid to late '80's. So the CATV company was using fiber in the '70's? fiberguy2

My views are my own.

Premium Member

join:2005-05-20 fiberguy2 Premium Member Re: I can't help but to see it differently In Sacramento, Fiber went into play, replacing microwave fed hubs fiber fed hubs, back around 1991.. It was not necessarily used for two-way communications, however, it did end the limitations of the microwave transmissions and, for the time period, dramatically cleaned up the PQ big time. Fiber has been deployed by both for years on end, but it's how they use it and for what that makes the difference.



Anytime you replace copper with fiber, things are bound to improve. However, it's not to say that if you don't have fiber to the home you don't have good service - that's just plain BS to those who claim it.



In all honestly, this whole advertising BS that people, here, are complaining about and trying to throw conspiracy theory at is also plain BS.



To be honest, no one cares, for the greater part, if fiber is at your door step or in the neighborhood. People care about prices, value for their dollar, options and services available, and reliability.



The truth is, if you could tie two cans together with string and deliver 300 channels of digital cable and a decent high speed internet towards the average consumer at a good price and it's reliable, THE MAJORITY and Plurality of consumers would care two-cents about the fact it was two cans and string as the last mile.



Seriously, this entire thread about fiber is nothing more than fan-boy talk. 95% of the people out there really could most likely care 2 cents about how the service gets to them which is clear.



If it were Verizon's FiOS product being all the rage, they'd have 100% penetration to all homes passed in the areas they serve. The truth is, they don't and they are far from it. That alone should, but it won't, put all the BBR fan-boys notion that "fiber matters" to bed.. but like I said, it won't.



Is this post all in direct relations to what you said, Austin? no.. I just wanted to comment about the deployment of fiber and then a few other things at the same time.

jmn1207

Premium Member

join:2000-07-19

Sterling, VA 1 edit jmn1207 Premium Member Re: I can't help but to see it differently Verizon's FiOS has a record that appears to make it a better overall product wherever it has been deployed. It would most likely be the preferred service in the Twin Cities area if Verizon decided to deploy it there, too.



All I can suggest is to look at any compilation of reviews where FiOS can be rated with any amount of accuracy. In fact, not only FiOS, but FTTH in general seems to have one thing in common wherever it is available. The customers all seem to prefer it over anything else when any measurable rating system is used to judge it. If it wasn't for billing issues, it would be even more embarrassing for cable providers trying to keep up with FiOS.



Deployment of FTTH is time consuming and costly, but it's really just a slow death for cable. Even DOCSIS 3.0, which is hardly even available to most, could be made obsolete with very little cost and effort where fiber has been strung to each residence.



You would be short-sighted to assume that the customers' demands will not continue to increase, and these customers will seek faster and more reliable connections in the near future. Copper simply will not be cost effective for the last mile, be it coaxial or twisted pair.

Boogeyman

Drive it like you stole it

Premium Member

join:2002-12-17

Wasilla, AK Boogeyman to Rick5

Premium Member to Rick5

No one is upset that they are saying they use fiber in thier network. People are upset that they are implying that the fiber to the node in TWC's network is the same as fiber to the home in VZ's.



It would be kind of like a car company saying thier hybrid vehicle was the same as an all electric vehicle just because both of them use batteries as an energy source at some point in the powertrain. Rick5

Premium Member

join:2001-02-06 Rick5 Premium Member Re: I can't help but to see it differently said by Boogeyman:



People are upset that they are implying that the fiber to the node in TWC's network is the same as fiber to the home in VZ's.



People are upset that they are implying that the fiber to the node in TWC's network is the same as fiber to the home in VZ's.

What i've seen them say in their ad's is that they use fiber in their networks too. Sorry but I missed the part where they ever said that.What i've seen them say in their ad's is that they use fiber in their networks too.

Boogeyman

Drive it like you stole it

Premium Member

join:2002-12-17

Wasilla, AK Boogeyman Premium Member Re: I can't help but to see it differently They arent saying it, they are implying it. Kind of like how hand soap says its antibacterial, but doesnt tell you that it has a fraction of the amount of antibacterial ingredients that the stuff the hospitals use does. Rick5

Premium Member

join:2001-02-06 Rick5 Premium Member Re: I can't help but to see it differently lol. but why shouldn't they be able to IMPLY and SAY what they've had since 1998?

I was getting 1500k ~ 2000k speeds coming off RR's network...RR's FIBER TO COAXIAL network...when the rest of the world was heavily engaged in paying AOL for less than 56k dial up service.



RR's ENTIRE network is comprised of HFC..whereas Verizons fios is in but a minor portion of their's...with YEARS more needed to fully develop it.



But yet..Verizon runs around talking about Fiber like it's the holy grail..



and TW can't talk about theirs without being accused of "implying" that it's like Verizon's?

The MAJORITY of verizons network is much slower DSL than

TW's HFC network is.



Again..if anyones pumping up the propaganda based on REAL World..company to company comparisons..



It's certainly not TW who is doing it!

jmn1207

Premium Member

join:2000-07-19

Sterling, VA jmn1207 Premium Member Re: I can't help but to see it differently



And I think the FiOS customers promote fiber like it's the holy grail, not Verizon. The campaigns discussed in the article are being implemented in areas where FiOS is in direct competition with Time Warner Cable's products.And I think the FiOS customers promote fiber like it's the holy grail, not Verizon.

Professor666

@mit.edu Professor666 to Rick5

Anon to Rick5

I live in Lexington, Mass and have Verizion FIOS and it is hands down the most reliable and fastest connection I've ever had. The internet connection totally blows away the cable modem I had with Comcast and the HD television is superior even to what I've watched with DIRECTV. I don't care who had what first, the only argument I accept is performance and FIOS has it. bogey7806

join:2004-03-19

Here bogey7806 to Rick5

Member to Rick5

'After all..they were a decade ahead of the telcos installing it.'



How were the cable companies installing fiber in the 1970s? Dilligas

join:2007-10-30

Windsor, ON Dilligas Member Re: I can't help but to see it differently One simple soulution. ITS ALL COPPER AT SOME POINT in the network, whether it be at the node or at the side of your house. Docsis 3 is needed by the cable companies, also the general population is not too technical, people just want the service to work at a decent price....most of the people that point the finger and say FTTH is better than FTTN might be technically minded but blind when it comes to knowing how all topologies work. Docsis 3 is needed, less homes per node passed also is needed but to have full blown fiber to the home, only time will tell whether that is the true way to go or save some cash and launch similar services on existing infustructure. Also too, Cable companies built their fiber networks when it was expensive and more cost effective to build a HFC network. 5 yrs from now if the cable companies decide to upgrade to fiber to the home or even fiber to the tap things will be that much more cheaper. Verizon is taking a risk at all or nothing when it comes to this. I defend both FTTH and FTTN but there is alot more coax has to offer than one may think!





RadioDoc



join:2000-05-11

La Grange, IL 1 edit RadioDoc to bogey7806

to bogey7806





I'm pretty sure Time Warner was still ATC back in the 70's stringing coax for their 28 channels of stale reruns and bicycled HBO tapes.

Slidetbone

Mazin Go

Premium Member

join:2002-11-10

Land O Lakes, FL Slidetbone to Rick5

Premium Member to Rick5

Ummm...I believe all networks use/ have used fiber for their long haul trunks. Nothing new, but TWC is twisting the truth a more bit than wee..



Any copper medium coupled with a fiber feeder is a good transport than all copper/coax. That too is common knowledge. Thanks to urban expansion, engineers thought that out very well instead of using copper/coax runs with amplifiers.



But copper/coax does have a frequency limit. DOCSIS 3 is just an improvement over the present protocol that deals with compressing frequencies more effectively to introduce more "options" like IPv6...sort of like cramming 10 pounds of poop in a 5 pound bag..fiber coupled with coax just eliminates the overall attenuation.



I believe AT&T was the first to use fiber optic as a long haul LD trunk transmission medium...everyone else followed.

fifty nine

join:2002-09-25

Sussex, NJ fifty nine Member FiOS vs cable, same thing different companies While all are raving about FiOS being better than HFC, the fact is that they are really similar technologies.



Cable could easily be on par with FiOS if they weren't bogged down with all of their legacy analog channels, made the nodes smaller (expensive, but not difficult), expanded to 1GHz and beyond, and deployed MPEG4 compression. Like the DTV transition, if you kill off cable analog, grandma is going to complain that you took away her TV. Not even a free DTA is going to fix that. She's going to say "if it aint broke, don't fix it!!!"



But all of these are baby steps that need to happen, and cable will always play second fiddle to FiOS as long as things remain the way they re.



FiOS' biggest advantage is that it had a clean slate to start with - it killed off most of the analog pretty early and had the opportunity to spread out its TV channels in the full 860MHz or so that cable MSOs use today.



On the TV side it is the same as cable, same standards everything.



But I am thankful that FiOS has given the cable monopoly a good wake up call after all of these years. They sorely needed it.

Heart

@verizon.net Heart Anon Re: FiOS vs cable, same thing different companies Cable providers who use HFC will always be limited. Those companies have only so much bandwidth that they can toy around with. That's because they have three different services over one line. Since I have FiOS I'm going to use it for my example. FiOS has tv on one wavelength, tv on another, and phone on another. Cable providers have one line which isn't separated.



To other Fiber users(doesnt matter provider) I invite someone to try this test. Try loading Comcast.com and then try Verizon.com and see which comes up first. Verizon's always loaded faster than Comcast. I can claim this because I've done it.

fifty nine

join:2002-09-25

Sussex, NJ fifty nine Member Re: FiOS vs cable, same thing different companies said by Heart :



Cable providers who use HFC will always be limited. Those companies have only so much bandwidth that they can toy around with. That's because they have three different services over one line. Since I have FiOS I'm going to use it for my example. FiOS has tv on one wavelength, tv on another, and phone on another. Cable providers have one line which isn't separated. Cable has different frequencies as well, except that they are radio waves, not light.



The average house drop cable can do up to 3GHz which is plenty of bandwidth for what FiOS offers today, and beyond. In fact what FiOS offers can be done in 1GHz, which cable providers can do today.



For the TV portion, FiOS uses standard cable equipment and standard cable frequencies. FiOS is very similar to HFC, except that you aren't sharing your ONT with your neighbors.



But with PON you are in fact sharing the fiber line with 31 other subscribers, while cable shares it with 500 or so. That doesn't matter with regular cable TV because it's one way.



If cable providers crush the analog and use frequencies above 860MHz for internet access, they will be on par with today's FiOS for the TV portion of the service, and with DOCSIS3 the internet portion as well. TV is a one way medium so there's no bandwidth sharing.



20MBps, even 100MBps service is absolutely doable with cable. 1GBps service without significant reductions in service during peak hours can be done with smaller nodes. To other Fiber users(doesnt matter provider) I invite someone to try this test. Try loading Comcast.com and then try Verizon.com and see which comes up first. Verizon's always loaded faster than Comcast. I can claim this because I've done it.

That doesn't say anything. Their webservers aren't even on the same network that your connection is on. Cable has different frequencies as well, except that they are radio waves, not light.The average house drop cable can do up to 3GHz which is plenty of bandwidth for what FiOS offers today, and beyond. In fact what FiOS offers can be done in 1GHz, which cable providers can do today.For the TV portion, FiOS uses standard cable equipment and standard cable frequencies. FiOS is very similar to HFC, except that you aren't sharing your ONT with your neighbors.But with PON you are in fact sharing the fiber line with 31 other subscribers, while cable shares it with 500 or so. That doesn't matter with regular cable TV because it's one way.If cable providers crush the analog and use frequencies above 860MHz for internet access, they will be on par with today's FiOS for the TV portion of the service, and with DOCSIS3 the internet portion as well. TV is a one way medium so there's no bandwidth sharing.20MBps, even 100MBps service is absolutely doable with cable. 1GBps service without significant reductions in service during peak hours can be done with smaller nodes.That doesn't say anything. Their webservers aren't even on the same network that your connection is on.

OSUGoose

join:2007-12-27

Columbus, OH Apple AirPort Extreme (2013)

OSUGoose Member Hey



»www.insightbusiness.com/ ··· rise.php



View the video.



Insight Business, The Power of Fiber Optics.



I find that alot more truthful, then saying Fiber Fed TV or internet like TWC is doing. At least 1 cable company isent lying.....View the video.Insight Business, The Power of Fiber Optics.I find that alot more truthful, then saying Fiber Fed TV or internet like TWC is doing.

FastiBook

join:2003-01-08

Newtown, PA FastiBook Member Fraud. Fraudulent misrepresentation.



- A your comment..

