view:

topics flat nest

Hype

@73.160.110.x Hype Anon 24GHz - low penetration; short distances The only problem with this technology is that 24GHz will have low penetration in to buildings and distance covered will be very short. Sure the speeds will be great, but cell transmitters will have to be very close together to get coverage. These frequencies can be great for venues with lots of people like in a stadium and with lots of cell transmitters covering that venue. But for users living out in suburbs and for city centers with lots of buildings this technology is pretty useless unless cell coverage is extended inside the buildings and multiple transmitters on every floor of the building.

RR Conductor

Ridin' the rails

Premium Member

join:2002-04-02

Redwood Valley, CA ARRIS SB6183

Netgear R7000

2 edits RR Conductor Premium Member Re: 24GHz - low penetration; short distances said by Hype : The only problem with this technology is that 24GHz will have low penetration in to buildings and distance covered will be very short. Sure the speeds will be great, but cell transmitters will have to be very close together to get coverage. These frequencies can be great for venues with lots of people like in a stadium and with lots of cell transmitters covering that venue. But for users living out in suburbs and for city centers with lots of buildings this technology is pretty useless unless cell coverage is extended inside the buildings and multiple transmitters on every floor of the building. It would stink for those of us in rural areas as well, especially in rugged, heavily forested (including Redwoods that can top 400 feet) areas like here in Mendocino County in Northwestern California, the mountains, hills, canyons, forest and the many isolated and remote areas we have would kill any hope of using that. The ONLY places it might be useful is right in towns like Ukiah or Fort Bragg, and only RIGHT in town. en103

join:2011-05-02 en103 Member Re: 24GHz - low penetration; short distances Ukiah/Willits is open enough to work. Places around/north of Legett may be a tougher deal. But then again, how many people in that area need 10Gbps ? Pot growers probably don't even get full use of all of those LTE connections up there.

RR Conductor

Ridin' the rails

Premium Member

join:2002-04-02

Redwood Valley, CA ARRIS SB6183

Netgear R7000

RR Conductor Premium Member Re: 24GHz - low penetration; short distances said by en103: Ukiah/Willits is open enough to work. Places around/north of Legett may be a tougher deal. But then again, how many people in that area need 10Gbps ? It would be tough anywhere outside of towns, this entire county is rugged and heavily forested, I have the Montgomery Redwoods just a few miles west of my place in Redwood Valley. Are you in this area? I have family in Ukiah and Laytonville too. I feel lucky to have Comcast HSI here, we're on Blast and get 125/12 all the time. Well, how many need good broadband? The answer is everybodyIt would be tough anywhere outside of towns, this entire county is rugged and heavily forested, I have the Montgomery Redwoods just a few miles west of my place in Redwood Valley. Are you in this area? I have family in Ukiah and Laytonville too. I feel lucky to have Comcast HSI here, we're on Blast and get 125/12 all the time. BiggA

Premium Member

join:2005-11-23

Central CT BiggA to RR Conductor

Premium Member to RR Conductor

700, 850, 1700/2100 and 1900mhz aren't going anywhere... New technologies will always be deployed on those frequencies.

RolteC

0h

join:2001-05-20

New York, NY RolteC to Hype

Member to Hype

But what about the companies now utilizing the 24GHZ "unlicensed" spectrum for long haul high bandwidth wifi links? Check out Ubiquiti for example... rradina

join:2000-08-08

Chesterfield, MO 920.3 39.3

·Charter

rradina Member Let Me Get This Straight... use components that are a fraction of the size of traditional macrocells and can be installed--unobtrusively--on utility poles, buildings, and other existing structures. So we can have an almost hidden 10Gbps wireless AP on a utility poll but we cannot bring FTTH without installing refrigerators in front yards?



Now that I have that off my chest, the good and the bad with this spectrum will be cell size. It'll be small which means the same spectrum can be reused often. At the same time, it'll be small which means we'll need an AP on every third telephone pole. If the APs create a mesh network where fiber isn't needed for back haul, this could get interesting. If fiber is necessary for every AP, the barrier to entry by new players will be high. From the article...So we can have an almost hidden 10Gbps wireless AP on a utility poll but we cannot bring FTTH without installing refrigerators in front yards?Now that I have that off my chest, the good and the bad with this spectrum will be cell size. It'll be small which means the same spectrum can be reused often. At the same time, it'll be small which means we'll need an AP on every third telephone pole. If the APs create a mesh network where fiber isn't needed for back haul, this could get interesting. If fiber is necessary for every AP, the barrier to entry by new players will be high. elefante72

join:2010-12-03

East Amherst, NY elefante72 Member Re: Let Me Get This Straight...



Also propagation will need to be LOS and is susceptible to water vapor, so that will limit range. Already we use P2P backhaul w/ 24 and higher, but strictly LOS less than 1km. That is not to say you can't go farther, it's just more of a challenge.



That range is has large unlicensed blocks, so what are they going to do now, sell that off too. Lots of ISM, etc use that spectrum. I think those vacated TV channels would be much better left in the public domain.



The use for neighborhood FTTN would be immense though. You could pretty much run FTTN and then cantenna it to the house. I think we should be concentrating on real last mile solutions that wireless can solve. At 24 GHz it may cause cancer, so I'm not sure I want that radiating from a phoneAlso propagation will need to be LOS and is susceptible to water vapor, so that will limit range. Already we use P2P backhaul w/ 24 and higher, but strictly LOS less than 1km. That is not to say you can't go farther, it's just more of a challenge.That range is has large unlicensed blocks, so what are they going to do now, sell that off too. Lots of ISM, etc use that spectrum. I think those vacated TV channels would be much better left in the public domain.The use for neighborhood FTTN would be immense though. You could pretty much run FTTN and then cantenna it to the house. I think we should be concentrating on real last mile solutions that wireless can solve.

Kasoah

join:2013-08-20

Merced, CA Kasoah Member Re: Let Me Get This Straight... said by elefante72: At 24 GHz it may cause cancer, so I'm not sure I want that radiating from a phone



Also propagation will need to be LOS and is susceptible to water vapor, so that will limit range. Already we use P2P backhaul w/ 24 and higher, but strictly LOS less than 1km. That is not to say you can't go farther, it's just more of a challenge.



That range is has large unlicensed blocks, so what are they going to do now, sell that off too. Lots of ISM, etc use that spectrum. I think those vacated TV channels would be much better left in the public domain.



The use for neighborhood FTTN would be immense though. You could pretty much run FTTN and then cantenna it to the house. I think we should be concentrating on real last mile solutions that wireless can solve. And visible light is in the tera hertz range. BiggA

Premium Member

join:2005-11-23

Central CT BiggA to elefante72

Premium Member to elefante72

NO! Fiber to the house and hardwired in is the only way to go. Wireless is never as good, no matter how fast it is! existenz

join:2014-02-12 existenz to rradina

Member to rradina

24Ghz may have its place in very high density areas along with lower bands. If the priority is set to use 24Ghz first, it would serve those nearby, leaving more spectrum capacity for the lower bands that would be used at further distances and hard to reach spots.

w0g

o.O

join:2001-08-30

Springfield, OR w0g Member this could cure forms of cancer 4G uses microwaves that cause cancer in humans and kills things .. It does this through activation of voltage gated calcium channels and other problems related to super oxide production and melotonin, hormone, and nervous system function alterations.



Cells are prevented from healing. DNA is also damaged. Dozens of studies and white papers prove it.



But if 5G moves away from omnidirectional system configs, to directed energy, lowering cell, DNA, and human exposure, cancer rates and health disturbances will definitely drop.



Also 5G is about creating pockets of radio reception around the device and base stations themselves. This will hopefully mean less exposure if done right, and techniques that don't require lower frequencies to penetrate buildings.



The technology is using phased array antenna design and HAARP type arrays in mini form if I am not mistaken. elefante72

join:2010-12-03

East Amherst, NY elefante72 Member Re: this could cure forms of cancer Well maybe humans with stronger p-n junctions will survive and the weak will go off deserted islands in the sea of tranquility.



The good news is that phones are getting so big that you likely wont be able to put them in your ear anymore and fry your brain or your pants and fry your ba**s.



Seriously I worry in these new MIMO configs with beam-forming. I know of a lots of guys who used to spend time in front/near of microwave transmitters departing in their early 40's. Now these were military grade, but we are starting to play with some serious radiation signatures.

Corehhi

join:2002-01-28

Bluffton, SC Corehhi Member Re: this could cure forms of cancer said by elefante72: Seriously I worry in these new MIMO configs with beam-forming. I know of a lots of guys who used to spend time in front/near of microwave transmitters departing in their early 40's. Now these were military grade, but we are starting to play with some serious radiation signatures. I was talking to a guy who was in WW2 and he said people use to stand right in front of the radar dishes because it heated them up. That was in the North Atlantic BTW. I'm not thinking that worked out well for the guys who did that day after day.

WHT

join:2010-03-26

Rosston, TX WHT to w0g

Member to w0g

said by w0g: 4G uses microwaves that cause cancer in humans and kills things .. It does this through activation of voltage gated calcium channels and other problems related to super oxide production and melotonin, hormone, and nervous system function alterations

Power levels sufficient at a distance to cause this = false. Plausible theory worth considering = true.Power levels sufficient at a distance to cause this = false.

Kasoah

join:2013-08-20

Merced, CA Kasoah to w0g

Member to w0g

said by w0g: 4G uses microwaves that cause cancer in humans and kills things .. It does this through activation of voltage gated calcium channels and other problems related to super oxide production and melotonin, hormone, and nervous system function alterations.



Cells are prevented from healing. DNA is also damaged. Dozens of studies and white papers prove it.



But if 5G moves away from omnidirectional system configs, to directed energy, lowering cell, DNA, and human exposure, cancer rates and health disturbances will definitely drop.



Also 5G is about creating pockets of radio reception around the device and base stations themselves. This will hopefully mean less exposure if done right, and techniques that don't require lower frequencies to penetrate buildings.



The technology is using phased array antenna design and HAARP type arrays in mini form if I am not mistaken. Please post some references that are legitimate to back your claim. AmericanMan

Premium Member

join:2013-12-28

united state AmericanMan Premium Member Does 5G describe the technology or the 5 GB data cap? 5G = Fifth Generation & 5 GB data caps? elefante72

join:2010-12-03

East Amherst, NY elefante72 Member Re: Does 5G describe the technology or the 5 GB data cap? You can reach your quota in one second.

caster

@198.41.85.x caster to AmericanMan

Anon to AmericanMan

and roaming at $15-20 a meg run the cost of a new car is less then a hour.

Yucca Servic

join:2012-11-27

Rio Rancho, NM Yucca Servic Member Lifi Why not avoid the 24GHz and jump straight to LiFi technology. Short distance high bandwidth. LIFi Ap in every room. Maybe it could be a good idea to use spectrum above 20GHz to spray data around, knocking out new traffic monitoring devices forever!

xSprintTec

@74.115.237.x xSprintTec Anon I remember when... ...EVDO Rev A was gonna save the world. Heck, I remember 3G rollout. Man.. those where the days.. CyberGuy

join:2006-08-21

Colbert, WA CyberGuy Member But, does it throttle? Zero to throttle in 2 seconds, flat!

baseskizl

@66.62.118.x baseskizl Anon 5G I was in South Korea this summer and every starbucks had 5G service. It was AWESOME, it was hard to believe that it is a higher speed then what we get in our homes in the U.S. for thoes of us that are not on fiber and useing docsis 1,2,3. almost 40mbps up&down it was great! I want to put up a 6g network but I am a poor student anyone know where I can get a hold of bill gates and tom wheeler?

tigerpaw509

join:2011-01-19 tigerpaw509 Member Who will be first ? Who will call their 4G LTE as 5G"type speeds" AmericanMan

Premium Member

join:2013-12-28

united state AmericanMan Premium Member Re: Who will be first ? Good point, I could see Verizon rebranding their "XLTE" as such.



These are the same guys who renamed their "DSL" to "HSI" (high-speed Internet) when the waves of public opinion started turning against DSL.

XANAVirus

Premium Member

join:2012-03-03

Lavalette, WV XANAVirus Premium Member Latency Speed is good, even on wireless with its constraints of physical and spectral limitations.



However - what. about. the. latency.



I never see minimum latencies advertised for any kind of communication technology. I have to dig into the standards to hopefully find it buried somewhere.



Download speeds are good but when you have 200ms one-way latency (like with AT&T faux-G) it really kills the smoothness of the whole experience.



And with low upload speeds, even for 4G wireless, multiple devices really deals a blow to the connection stability.



And even with wired connections I face unstated minimums of 10-20ms even to the first hop, which slows down streaming quite a lot with all the TCP SYN and ACK packets.



I just have hope that this standard will finally be the tipping point to where we can say 'speeds are good enough' and can finally focus on latencies and backhaul. your comment..

