Something’s snapped. After the 2016 presidential election, women nationwide wanted to make a scene. We flooded streets in protest. We filled out ballots. Whispers gave way to battle cries. We didn’t do it for “attention.” We did it for progress. In "Fired Up," ELLE.com explores women’s rage—and what comes next.

If you're a woman who's uttered a few words in public, chances are good that you've been interrupted. If you've been audible in an office, it's almost inevitable. Men interrupt you in closed-door meetings and in the middle of presentations and over lunch. Call it out, risk that hated rejoinder—God, don't be so emotional about it.

None of us are immune. Not senators like Kamala Harris or Supreme Court justices. Not Michelle Obama. Not Arianna Huffington or Oprah. And not women on live television, who endure sexism, condescension, and countless, endless interruptions, all while millions of people watch.



Here's the good news: these women are pros. Out from under the bright, hot lights of live television and our patriarchal culture, we asked five of them to take us inside the moments that tested their cool—from rude commentators and a racist presidential remark to one genuinely unglued Bill O'Reilly.

Stephanie Ruhle, MSNBC Live anchor

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Everything you say on TV counts. You say it on record, with people watching you. For me, it's all about controlling the conversation and setting the tempo. No one else gets to control my emotions but me. No one gets to “trigger” me. No one gets to degrade me. I decide what I'm comfortable with.

[A few weeks ago], I interviewed the historian and economist Niall Ferguson. He was on the show, and he wanted to make the argument that we obsess over President Trump's [behavior], but it's not in the constitution. In the constitution, he said, you can be a sexist or you can be a racist. It’s not unconstitutional. I wasn't getting worked up, but I said that while it may be a fact that the constitution doesn't dictate whether you can be a sexist or a racist, I believe that the constitution holds our highest office in the land at a higher standard. He basically said, "Why don't you just chill out?" People love to tell women that. "You're getting worked up, you're getting chaotic." No, I’m not.



But at the same time, I am sometimes emotional. In that case, I wasn’t, but in other moments, sure. These are emotional times, and I have cried on television. I cried when I reported on the [Green Berets] who died in that brutal attack in Niger. I was emotional when I read Ronald Reagan’s speech on immigrants, [compared to Donald Trump’s remarks on immigrants].

That doesn't mean I can't handle myself on television; it means I'm a human. If I can't be a human in this job, I can't be good at it. You want to call me out for being a person? Bring it on.

Nicolle Wallace, host of MSNBC's Deadline: White House

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The last time I remember news in my hour that was really offensive was when it broke that the president had called several African nations, "shithole countries."

It broke, and that was the word [he used]. For a minute, I wasn't sure if I could say it on television. I was so shocked, and I didn't know what the rules were when it comes to quoting the president when he uses a word like that on live TV. We had to take a break. I said to our audience, "We have breaking news, and we need to make sure that it's family-friendly, so don't go anywhere, and we'll be right back."

When we came back, I reported it as plainly outrageous, and we let everybody live in that moment.

When news happens on live TV in your hour, you do not have a lot of time to sit down and think about it. You react, and that’s usually a window into how you actually feel about it. When we came back, I reported it as plainly outrageous, and we let everybody live in that moment. I think very few people had a different reaction, but I feel lucky to work in a place that permits us to have a human reaction to these [kinds of] stories.



Every once in a while, it’s clear to me that I have to report something upsetting, and you prepare ahead of time. I knew that the news that John McCain has brain cancer, for example, would be upsetting, and I did have a backup plan if I couldn't get through reading the beautiful letter his daughter had written. I asked someone else on our panel if she would pick up the script and read it for me if I was too emotional, because he's one of the greatest men that I've ever worked for and a great American. I was able to do it, but I had a backup plan. That's the job; you need a "just in case."

Norah O’Donnell, co-host of CBS This Morning

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I started off in journalism as a correspondent and a reporter. I wasn't involved in a lot of open conversation on air, but once I started to anchor a live broadcast like CBS This Morning, where conversation is the centerpiece of the broadcast, there's a lot of back-and-forth that occurs. I think that's what makes morning television so exciting. It's also what makes it challenging. Not everybody can do that! I keep telling the executives that!

I didn't interrupt after he started yelling at me across the table. I didn't interrupt because I could see he was digging his own rhetorical grave.

I remember, months before the Bill O’Reilly [investigation broke in the New York Times], he was on our show to promote a children’s book. We asked him about the [sexual harassment] accusations against Roger Ailes [in Megyn Kelly’s book], and he said, more or less, “I’m not interested in that.” I pressed him. I said, "Wait, you're not interested in sexual harassment?" It just unleashed a fire and fury from him. And at that point, I just listened. I didn't interrupt after he started yelling at me across the table. I didn't interrupt because I could see he was digging his own rhetorical grave.

Once he said what he said, I started to fan myself because I was kind of stunned! I did in that moment let the emotions show. I got what I needed and then it was like, “Oh my god, this person is just yelling at me!” It was a little humorous; it lightened the mood. But his reaction—it was like, yes, I did my job.

The truth is I’ve been trying to understand for many years why we haven’t achieved gender equality in this country, why we still don't have equal [number of women] on television, in politics, in business. And then after the Charlie Rose moment and what went with that, and because I’d just done a six-month investigation into the Air Force academy where women were abused, it all came over me, like a light bulb moment. The reason that there’s inequality in terms of representation in the workplace is because women have been harassed!

I was on a treadmill, and I just started to cry. It was like, “Jesus, now I understand why friends of mine who are in their forties, who have masters' degrees from Harvard, who are much smarter than I am have stopped working. Maybe it’s because they have children at home, but maybe it's also because they've faced harassment. Why would you stay in a workplace environment where you are harassed and abused? You wouldn't. You would leave.

I know it seems obvious, but it's been hard for me to digest. That's the point about this, about what we’re all finding out now. It’s the pervasiveness and the systemic nature of harassment. And it’s not just the abuse that women suffer, but the fact that it degrades your sense of confidence and makes you to leave a workplace where there’s so much that you still stand to gain, beyond a salary. There are professional and intellectual goals that women have. There are skills they want to learn. They’ve been denied that.



I am so grateful to work with Gayle [King], who is not only my friend, but my ally. We start off at 5 a.m., getting ready in the makeup room, the hairdryers going, and we just start talking. We don’t agree about everything, but she has given me the confidence to say what I feel on the air. Because of my background as a political reporter, I have this instinct to stick to the facts, to hold back. I am so grateful to her because she has taught me to "let my inside voice be an outside voice," you know? I needed that.

S.E. Cupp, host of HLN's S.E. Cupp: Unfiltered

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It's always been a challenge [to be an opinionated woman] in public but, it has gotten easier, especially through #MeToo. I’ve noticed that even I've taken some liberties that I wouldn't have before, covering this story and this moment. I just feel I'm angry, and I have taken the gloves off, essentially. I'm done being polite when we talk about harassment in the workplace, when we talk about sexual harassment, sexual abuse. I feel like women have seized this moment. We’ve found a bigger voice and some of the courage that we might not have had before.

But I’m still a journalist, and as journalists, we’re constantly measuring the line between wanting to be authentic and in the moment and also knowing that we need to be judicious about the way we’re talking about any issue, really. That's a skill—a muscle that you just learn how to flex over time, with lots of practice.

[A few months ago], I was on CNN, on Brooke Baldwin's show, with a guest, a man. I don't remember his name; he was a former Clinton adviser. We were talking about Hillary Clinton's Facebook statement in the wake of the New York Times story [that she’d protected a man accused of harassment within her campaign]. She’d shielded a sexual predator. Even as I talked about it, he kept interrupting me to defend her. I just thought, "This is such a bad look. We're talking about sexual harassment and how [Clinton] didn't protect a victim adequately, and you are interrupting me to defend what Hillary Clinton did wrong in a lot of our minds." It was so on the nose.



I said, "Can I finish my point?" But he just kept going, so I said, "Oh, I guess not." Those are the times I don't have to yell at someone. I don't have to "stand my ground.” His performance said it all. I don’t get hurt by [sexist remarks], and I don't take them personally, because it's not about me. I direct whatever I feel into my work and try to be as good at it as I can be. If you, as a woman on television, took it all personally, you'd go home in a puddle every day.

When we got together before we went on air, everyone was like, "I am so excited to tell some of these stories. I am so excited to finally get them out there." There has been some real catharsis in that.

I will just add that this business is like others that are competitive. It hasn't always been that women are looking out for women, and that was disappointing to me when that happened. But I have seen much more of a camaraderie over the past few months. After #MeToo, I prepared an entire show on this moment, and I had women on to talk about it for the whole hour. When we got together before we went on air, everyone was like, "I am so excited to tell some of these stories. I am so excited to finally get them out there." There has been some real catharsis in that.

Joy Reid, host of MSNBC's AM Joy

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I haven’t faced a lot of racism on air, but I have had male guests condescend to me and lecture me and interrupt me. The interruptions—it’s almost a hazard of the business. You will be interrupted. Girl, Interrupted—that’s what they should call this business.

If I’m hosting a show, I’m in control. If I ask a guest a question, and they’re interrupting me or not answering the question, I just insist that they stop talking. I will not stop talking until they comply. That’s how I push back. If that doesn’t work, we always have the power to mute the mic. It’s unfortunate to have to resort to that, but not everybody knows the etiquette! I think sometimes when it’s a woman’s voice that is speaking, sometimes men just feel free to jump in on top of that voice. That’s not okay. And we usually book the kind of women guests who, when that happens, just insist on getting their point across no matter what. It’s a competition of ideas, and you have to compete, and these women do.

Girl, Interrupted—that’s what they should call this business.

Sometimes, people are really out line. I had a guest once take $100 bill on set and tell me, “I’ll pay you $100 if you answer my question.” That guest was disinvited in the break. That’s not how you speak to a woman, let alone on television. We’ve had a lot of people on the show who are just bullies. We used to have Boris Epshteyn on a lot; he’s famous for bullying guests and women. We had Rev. Mark Burns on just a few weeks ago. He tried to berate me during the segment. That didn’t work. [Ed. note: Reid cut his feed after he repeatedly refused to answer her questions and dismissed him on air.]

It is sort of amazing to me that people still behave like that! It’s emblematic of our era, I think. We’re in an age now where we’re revisiting how men deal with women, and how it used to be is really byzantine and not acceptable. I used to work in talk radio, where getting talked over is just a constant. Men presume that it’s their domain. So I’m used to it, but that doesn’t mean I think women should have to put up with it. It’s an unfortunate relic of some Mad Men time.

I’m optimistic that we can get better, if women keep insisting on having their voices heard. A lot of men, too, are getting called out. I won’t name names, but I’ve had guests who social media has just dragged. They’ll come back to me and tell me, “I didn’t realize I was interrupting so much, but Twitter let me have it.” The people out there will let you know, men! The men who’ve done it, you will be chastened.

These interviews have been edited and condensed.

