

JP: Yep, we started out at 16 taps and it took us about six weeks to get to 20 and we actually have a backlog now of beers to go on tap. There are probably 4 or 5 beers ready to go on tap. We have 12 core beers that are always available that we pledge to always have in stock.



MM: How big is your brewery?



JP: It's 1,000 square meters and we've got a 4,200-meter system, a ton of fermenters. Then we have a smaller system which is actually my old homebrew system.



MM: Really?



JP: Yeah I used to have a fair amount of money in my old life. It's a beautiful system that I actually had custom made and I've had it inspected. It's kept at full food hygiene levels, everything about it, sanitary wells and everything like that, so we still use that.



We also bought 60-liter proper pressure fermenters and 120-liter pressure fermenters so that we can do double batches on that or single batches. If there's a crazy new idea we'll throw it in the 60-liter. If it's a crazy new idea that we're super excited about then we'll throw it in the 120. If that goes well then that goes on to be poured at this bar.



MM: A tap room special.

Mild traffic - Saigon

JP: Yeah the whole concept was to bring the world of beers to Vietnam, to introduce the Vietnamese to craft.



MM: This seems like a good place to do that. It's a relatively young country. What's the average age here, 33?



JP: Our sweet spot is 25-35. This is the youngest country in Asia and one of the youngest in the world.



MM: Is there anything about the craft beer scene in Vietnam or Asia that makes it different or unique compared to the U.S. or U.K.?

Flavors of Saigon



JP: When we started, some other breweries were dumbing things down for the Vietnamese. Like the Vietnamese aren't ready for craft beer. Dumb it down, dumb it down, dumb it down. But my reaction to that is, "Have you had the food? The food is amazing! And the food is so bright and vibrant. There are citrus flavors, there are bitter flavors, there are sweet flavors. It runs the whole spectrum, which you find in craft beer, right?



MM: Right.



JP: For me, it was just like let the Vietnamese decided what they like and don't like. I'm just going to make beer that I'm proud of and that's our basic philosophy. We make beer that first and foremost we're proud of. Beer that we're proud to put our brand on and proud to share with people, and then let them choose.



That's why there are 20 taps. Somewhere in those 20 taps, everyone will find something that works for them. We try to create the range very carefully so we run the spectrum from light, easy drinking up to big bad bold beer geek get-your-geek-on kind of stuff.



MM: So you don't brew down to people.



JP: No. We just want to be proud of who we are and proud of what we do. Obviously, through the process, we're learning to dial into what's working for the Vietnamese and what's not working. We're not dictating what's right.



MM: Which of your beers are you finding is most popular in Vietnam?



JP: Oh, it's Loose Rivet hands down. That thing is just a beast that transcends everything. It doesn't matter if you're male, you're female, you're a beer geek, you're not a beer geek, you Asian, you're western. It just doesn't matter, it just transcends it all. I've seen little Vietnamese girls chug pints of that, 7.5 ABV!



MM: Vietnamese girls can throw down.



JP: Absolutely. Full respect.



MM: What's your opinion when it comes to cans vs bottles?



JP: What do you want, the geeky answer or the practical answer?

The Heart of Darkness beer rainbow.



MM: I'm guessing the practical answer is bottles because that's what people are used to, right.



JP: Here in Asia there is a perception of quality around that, so that's why we went with bottles. Duane, Steve-O and I had a long, long, long debate over that. The brewer in me and Duane was like, "cans are probably the right way to go." But then the marketeer in me and Steve-O wanted bottles because there is a perception of value, and prestige, a premium to that.



What it all boils down to is that in the highly geeky argument over what's better, really, technically it's a tiny little bit. As long as you culture properly and maintain good processes and systems and procedures, it's negligible. Are cans better? Yeah. Are they better to the point that you should override the marketing factor in wherever you are? No, they're not.



At the end of the day, the turn out of our bottles and our kegs is so fast anyway. It's an academic conversation. The issue is O₂ pickup because you tend to not be able to control the amount of oxygen you get in a bottle as well as with a can, so you can get oxygenation of the beer



MM: I know you've collaborated with Little Creatures on Creatures of Darkness IPA. How many collaborations have you done and with which breweries?



JP: Our first was with Tê Tê. We opened in December [2016] and did that in December. Then, Little Creatures, they were here in our bar and they loved our beer. One of the regional finance guys asked if we could do a collaboration. I love Creatures. For me Creatures Pale Ale is like...it's iconic, like Sierra Nevada iconic. In Australia, it's a beer that launched a revolution. I love their brand.



You can get snobby about corporate craft and blah blah blah, but at the end of the day, I sell happiness and if it makes people happy, why judge? Why be an idiot about it. If someone's enjoying that beer let them enjoy that beer.



MM: How many beers have you made with them so far?



JP: Three. We've done Creatures of Darkness IPA, Creatures of Darkness New England IPA and Creatures of Darkness Asian Wit. I'm happy to continue doing the series



MM: Who distributes these beers? You or them?



JP: A bit of both. Our distributor brings it in for them to sell in their tap room and we distribute it around the region. We send it to Hong Kong. We send it to Singapore.