To me, the best example of that is "I Am Trying to Break Your Heart." I already had already played with Jim and been hanging out with him and stuff like that, but that was the first one where I talked to everybody in the band and said, "Look, I want to take this stuff and go down to Soma—which is Tortoise's studio—and have Jim mix it and mess around with it a little bit. I'll show you what it could be." There was a lot of skepticism in the band, not across the board, but in particular Jay, I think, was very skeptical. It was such a watershed moment, getting that mix done, and it was so exciting to work with Jim and hear the potential in these songs being expanded upon. I knew when I heard it that I had to finish the whole record with him. You can't put that on the record and have the other songs not being mixed by Jim too—it just raised the bar. That song was a big turning point in my life and the life of the band.