Edpayasugo Profile Joined April 2013 United Kingdom 1770 Posts #2 Nice one FlaSh MMA INnoVation FanTaSy MKP TY Ryung | soO Dark Rogue | HuK PartinG Stork State

[PkF] Wire Profile Joined March 2013 France 22019 Posts #3 Very detailed and interesting guide, as usual coming from you. Thanks !

Railgan Profile Joined August 2010 Switzerland 1483 Posts #4 On March 13 2017 07:17 [PkF] Wire wrote:

Very detailed and interesting guide, as usual coming from you. Thanks !

Thanks. There is still the 2 Base 3 Gas Roach Push follow up that I would like to cover but I have been having too much fun with other builds



Here is a video on it though.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2Q6q_pjwlk Thanks. There is still the 2 Base 3 Gas Roach Push follow up that I would like to cover but I have been having too much fun with other buildsHere is a video on it though. Grandmaster Zerg from Switzerland!!! www.twitch.tv/railgan // www.twitter.com/railgansc // www.youtube.com/c/railgansc

SilverHawk1 Profile Joined February 2016 12 Posts Last Edited: 2017-07-10 13:11:35 #5 How do you transition from this vs mech? Roach swarmhost isn't as good as ling bane swarmhost. Vipers just get wrecked by thors



Also, is it a good idea to go make mutas instead of roaches when you see the terran just going mass marauders? Some cheeky terrans actually do this, with them only making a handful of marines.

bulya Profile Joined February 2016 Israel 384 Posts #6 The 3 Roach is an opener. You can do a lot of things behind it.

For example, I'm playing greedy behind it (getting a third, droning like a mad man, etc).



The 3 Roach is a simple pressure which throws the Terran of his build and makes his mind blow up (especially if he is dependent on a build order like most terrans.



I'm trying to use one of the lings to hold position under the rax when they try swaping the rax and the factory, as the 1-1-1 is very popular now and many terrans rely on the rax building a tech lab for the starport.



I won with it even when my opponent simply made a single cyclone to make the roaches go away and didn't commit to anything else (he was Masters 2). But it was still enough to make him play passively in the first 5 minutes of the game, which was enough to get me the eco I need for my future plans (be it mech or bio).

SilverHawk1 Profile Joined February 2016 12 Posts #7 On July 10 2017 22:13 bulya wrote:

The 3 Roach is an opener. You can do a lot of things behind it.

For example, I'm playing greedy behind it (getting a third, droning like a mad man, etc).



The 3 Roach is a simple pressure which throws the Terran of his build and makes his mind blow up (especially if he is dependent on a build order like most terrans.



I'm trying to use one of the lings to hold position under the rax when they try swaping the rax and the factory, as the 1-1-1 is very popular now and many terrans rely on the rax building a tech lab for the starport.



I won with it even when my opponent simply made a single cyclone to make the roaches go away and didn't commit to anything else (he was Masters 2). But it was still enough to make him play passively in the first 5 minutes of the game, which was enough to get me the eco I need for my future plans (be it mech or bio).



It seems a waste having all those roaches for the defense.



Guess I should just remember to always overlord scout once lair is available. See if he's going mech or not. It seems a waste having all those roaches for the defense.Guess I should just remember to always overlord scout once lair is available. See if he's going mech or not.

bulya Profile Joined February 2016 Israel 384 Posts #8 The 3 Roach is a pressure you do while the terran building add-ons and preparing his initial poke (2-1-1, hellion banshee, whatever).



ZvT usually starts with the Terran pressuring somehow the Zerg so that the Zerg doesn't explode in eco, but if you push the Terran a bit it slows them by quite a lot, as they usually don't used to react.



While the roaches there he can't mule the natural and produce SCVs there. Swapping add-ons is also hard, and many defensive reactions will make the terran poke either delayed or way weaker then it was supposed to be.

SilverHawk1 Profile Joined February 2016 12 Posts #9 When do you put down your spores in case of libs in maps having those abusive lib spots? After lair?

Railgan Profile Joined August 2010 Switzerland 1483 Posts #10



Versus Mech you can go back to Lings, Roach Hydra Viper, Roach Ravager, Mass Muta (if you can make it work...) or even just go Ling Bane Hydra (Swarmhost / Viper). It is just an opener and no big commitment.



Everything Bulya said is completly correct. The Build just uses 3 Roaches instead of 4 Lings and Ling Speed in the early game. The Roaches allow you to pressure a bit, scout, do economic damage and make your opponent wonder what you are actually going for.Versus Mech you can go back to Lings, Roach Hydra Viper, Roach Ravager, Mass Muta (if you can make it work...) or even just go Ling Bane Hydra (Swarmhost / Viper). It is just an opener and no big commitment. On July 11 2017 21:18 SilverHawk1 wrote:

When do you put down your spores in case of libs in maps having those abusive lib spots? After lair?



I usually use my 3-5 Queens to defend vs Liberators or morph up to 3 ravagers if he also attacks me with tanks. You dont really need spores because you can also morph an overseer in time to deal with the banshees (once your lair is done). I usually use my 3-5 Queens to defend vs Liberators or morph up to 3 ravagers if he also attacks me with tanks. You dont really need spores because you can also morph an overseer in time to deal with the banshees (once your lair is done). Grandmaster Zerg from Switzerland!!! www.twitch.tv/railgan // www.twitter.com/railgansc // www.youtube.com/c/railgansc

SilverHawk1 Profile Joined February 2016 12 Posts #11 I usually use my 3-5 Queens to defend vs Liberators



You okay with them dying to the lib sieging in abusive spots where the queens' range isn't enough to hit it from outside its circle? You okay with them dying to the lib sieging in abusive spots where the queens' range isn't enough to hit it from outside its circle?

bulya Profile Joined February 2016 Israel 384 Posts #12 On July 14 2017 14:10 SilverHawk1 wrote:

Show nested quote +

I usually use my 3-5 Queens to defend vs Liberators



You okay with them dying to the lib sieging in abusive spots where the queens' range isn't enough to hit it from outside its circle? You okay with them dying to the lib sieging in abusive spots where the queens' range isn't enough to hit it from outside its circle?

A lib is 150-150, a queen is 150. So losing a queen for a lib is fine, losing 2 is quite ok, and if you do it well you can transfuse the injured queens so that you keep them all alive.

While the queens are in the circle the lib targets the queens (unless it was ordered otherwise), so you don't have to pull drones this way (less lost mining time). A lib is 150-150, a queen is 150. So losing a queen for a lib is fine, losing 2 is quite ok, and if you do it well you can transfuse the injured queens so that you keep them all alive.While the queens are in the circle the lib targets the queens (unless it was ordered otherwise), so you don't have to pull drones this way (less lost mining time).

SilverHawk1 Profile Joined February 2016 12 Posts Last Edited: 2017-07-14 18:48:20 #13 On July 14 2017 15:30 bulya wrote:

Show nested quote +

On July 14 2017 14:10 SilverHawk1 wrote:

I usually use my 3-5 Queens to defend vs Liberators



You okay with them dying to the lib sieging in abusive spots where the queens' range isn't enough to hit it from outside its circle? You okay with them dying to the lib sieging in abusive spots where the queens' range isn't enough to hit it from outside its circle?

A lib is 150-150, a queen is 150. So losing a queen for a lib is fine, losing 2 is quite ok, and if you do it well you can transfuse the injured queens so that you keep them all alive.

While the queens are in the circle the lib targets the queens (unless it was ordered otherwise), so you don't have to pull drones this way (less lost mining time). A lib is 150-150, a queen is 150. So losing a queen for a lib is fine, losing 2 is quite ok, and if you do it well you can transfuse the injured queens so that you keep them all alive.While the queens are in the circle the lib targets the queens (unless it was ordered otherwise), so you don't have to pull drones this way (less lost mining time).



I don't usually miss my injects so I don't have energy for tranfuse.



And I just realized this build is pretty weak to a two base marine tank all in. I don't think you can drone your third fully vs that if the terran has competent macro. They will have like four tanks and a bunch of marines. And if your third goes down, that's GG since he can keep flooding in units while your eco goes down the shitter.



Happened to me where I cleaned up his first force thanks to him unsieging on creep, only to die later on with his force literally rallied across the map to my base because my two remaining bases are running out of resources.



Edit:

Also, are you supposed to prioritize ravagers in roach ravager comp? Because I maxed out on Blood Boil with mostly roaches thanks to that inner one gas base and they can't kill shit, especially against marauders.



And then you just die once the terran gets to three three and you're still on Lair tech. I don't usually miss my injects so I don't have energy for tranfuse.And I just realized this build is pretty weak to a two base marine tank all in. I don't think you can drone your third fully vs that if the terran has competent macro. They will have like four tanks and a bunch of marines. And if your third goes down, that's GG since he can keep flooding in units while your eco goes down the shitter.Happened to me where I cleaned up his first force thanks to him unsieging on creep, only to die later on with his force literally rallied across the map to my base because my two remaining bases are running out of resources.Edit:Also, are you supposed to prioritize ravagers in roach ravager comp? Because I maxed out on Blood Boil with mostly roaches thanks to that inner one gas base and they can't kill shit, especially against marauders.And then you just die once the terran gets to three three and you're still on Lair tech.

Nerchio Profile Joined October 2009 Poland 2628 Posts #14 I use it from time to time but I make 1-3 ravagers from the roaches otherwise there is no potential to do anything Progamer "I am the best" - Nerchio , 2017.

KelsierSC Profile Blog Joined March 2013 United Kingdom 10392 Posts #15 Seems good Zerg for Life

bulya Profile Joined February 2016 Israel 384 Posts #16 On July 15 2017 01:10 SilverHawk1 wrote:

Show nested quote +

On July 14 2017 15:30 bulya wrote:

On July 14 2017 14:10 SilverHawk1 wrote:

I usually use my 3-5 Queens to defend vs Liberators



You okay with them dying to the lib sieging in abusive spots where the queens' range isn't enough to hit it from outside its circle? You okay with them dying to the lib sieging in abusive spots where the queens' range isn't enough to hit it from outside its circle?

A lib is 150-150, a queen is 150. So losing a queen for a lib is fine, losing 2 is quite ok, and if you do it well you can transfuse the injured queens so that you keep them all alive.

While the queens are in the circle the lib targets the queens (unless it was ordered otherwise), so you don't have to pull drones this way (less lost mining time). A lib is 150-150, a queen is 150. So losing a queen for a lib is fine, losing 2 is quite ok, and if you do it well you can transfuse the injured queens so that you keep them all alive.While the queens are in the circle the lib targets the queens (unless it was ordered otherwise), so you don't have to pull drones this way (less lost mining time).



I don't usually miss my injects so I don't have energy for tranfuse.



And I just realized this build is pretty weak to a two base marine tank all in. I don't think you can drone your third fully vs that if the terran has competent macro. They will have like four tanks and a bunch of marines. And if your third goes down, that's GG since he can keep flooding in units while your eco goes down the shitter.



Happened to me where I cleaned up his first force thanks to him unsieging on creep, only to die later on with his force literally rallied across the map to my base because my two remaining bases are running out of resources.



Edit:

Also, are you supposed to prioritize ravagers in roach ravager comp? Because I maxed out on Blood Boil with mostly roaches thanks to that inner one gas base and they can't kill shit, especially against marauders.



And then you just die once the terran gets to three three and you're still on Lair tech. I don't usually miss my injects so I don't have energy for tranfuse.And I just realized this build is pretty weak to a two base marine tank all in. I don't think you can drone your third fully vs that if the terran has competent macro. They will have like four tanks and a bunch of marines. And if your third goes down, that's GG since he can keep flooding in units while your eco goes down the shitter.Happened to me where I cleaned up his first force thanks to him unsieging on creep, only to die later on with his force literally rallied across the map to my base because my two remaining bases are running out of resources.Edit:Also, are you supposed to prioritize ravagers in roach ravager comp? Because I maxed out on Blood Boil with mostly roaches thanks to that inner one gas base and they can't kill shit, especially against marauders.And then you just die once the terran gets to three three and you're still on Lair tech.

What do you mean? The 3 roach opener, or the muta/corruptor into roach ravager follow-up?



I'm not doing the muta/corruptor into roach ravager follow-up. But I use the opener a lot, and tank pushes do nothing if you spread your queens, let them eat the first shoots and jump with ling bane (or eve ling roach) on this army. You can also scout if its a tank production so that you know what to anticipate.

I even like them doing early tank pushes, as I have the time to transition into speedlings and if I catch it moving unsieged I can handle it this way..



Regarding the spire follow-up you'll have to wait for Railgan.

What do you mean? The 3 roach opener, or the muta/corruptor into roach ravager follow-up?I'm not doing the muta/corruptor into roach ravager follow-up. But I use the opener a lot, and tank pushes do nothing if you spread your queens, let them eat the first shoots and jump with ling bane (or eve ling roach) on this army. You can also scout if its a tank production so that you know what to anticipate.I even like them doing early tank pushes, as I have the time to transition into speedlings and if I catch it moving unsieged I can handle it this way..Regarding the spire follow-up you'll have to wait for Railgan.

SilverHawk1 Profile Joined February 2016 12 Posts #17 On July 15 2017 15:20 bulya wrote:

Show nested quote +

On July 15 2017 01:10 SilverHawk1 wrote:

On July 14 2017 15:30 bulya wrote:

On July 14 2017 14:10 SilverHawk1 wrote:

I usually use my 3-5 Queens to defend vs Liberators



You okay with them dying to the lib sieging in abusive spots where the queens' range isn't enough to hit it from outside its circle? You okay with them dying to the lib sieging in abusive spots where the queens' range isn't enough to hit it from outside its circle?

A lib is 150-150, a queen is 150. So losing a queen for a lib is fine, losing 2 is quite ok, and if you do it well you can transfuse the injured queens so that you keep them all alive.

While the queens are in the circle the lib targets the queens (unless it was ordered otherwise), so you don't have to pull drones this way (less lost mining time). A lib is 150-150, a queen is 150. So losing a queen for a lib is fine, losing 2 is quite ok, and if you do it well you can transfuse the injured queens so that you keep them all alive.While the queens are in the circle the lib targets the queens (unless it was ordered otherwise), so you don't have to pull drones this way (less lost mining time).



I don't usually miss my injects so I don't have energy for tranfuse.



And I just realized this build is pretty weak to a two base marine tank all in. I don't think you can drone your third fully vs that if the terran has competent macro. They will have like four tanks and a bunch of marines. And if your third goes down, that's GG since he can keep flooding in units while your eco goes down the shitter.



Happened to me where I cleaned up his first force thanks to him unsieging on creep, only to die later on with his force literally rallied across the map to my base because my two remaining bases are running out of resources.



Edit:

Also, are you supposed to prioritize ravagers in roach ravager comp? Because I maxed out on Blood Boil with mostly roaches thanks to that inner one gas base and they can't kill shit, especially against marauders.



And then you just die once the terran gets to three three and you're still on Lair tech. I don't usually miss my injects so I don't have energy for tranfuse.And I just realized this build is pretty weak to a two base marine tank all in. I don't think you can drone your third fully vs that if the terran has competent macro. They will have like four tanks and a bunch of marines. And if your third goes down, that's GG since he can keep flooding in units while your eco goes down the shitter.Happened to me where I cleaned up his first force thanks to him unsieging on creep, only to die later on with his force literally rallied across the map to my base because my two remaining bases are running out of resources.Edit:Also, are you supposed to prioritize ravagers in roach ravager comp? Because I maxed out on Blood Boil with mostly roaches thanks to that inner one gas base and they can't kill shit, especially against marauders.And then you just die once the terran gets to three three and you're still on Lair tech.

What do you mean? The 3 roach opener, or the muta/corruptor into roach ravager follow-up?



I'm not doing the muta/corruptor into roach ravager follow-up. But I use the opener a lot, and tank pushes do nothing if you spread your queens, let them eat the first shoots and jump with ling bane (or eve ling roach) on this army. You can also scout if its a tank production so that you know what to anticipate.

I even like them doing early tank pushes, as I have the time to transition into speedlings and if I catch it moving unsieged I can handle it this way..



Regarding the spire follow-up you'll have to wait for Railgan.

What do you mean? The 3 roach opener, or the muta/corruptor into roach ravager follow-up?I'm not doing the muta/corruptor into roach ravager follow-up. But I use the opener a lot, and tank pushes do nothing if you spread your queens, let them eat the first shoots and jump with ling bane (or eve ling roach) on this army. You can also scout if its a tank production so that you know what to anticipate.I even like them doing early tank pushes, as I have the time to transition into speedlings and if I catch it moving unsieged I can handle it this way..Regarding the spire follow-up you'll have to wait for Railgan.



I go roach ravager with this build. It just feels awkward transitioning into lings. Gotta research ling speed, drop that bane nest, and research bane speed.



What I both love and hate about this build is how the reaction from the Terran varies a lot. He can drop his sphagetti and forget his macro, giving an easy win or he's going to stay calm and I got a harder game. In Diamond 2, you still get that wide variance of response, making me get cocky a lot of times and attack into a larger force than I was expecting.



And with an SCV scout, he can see your pool first so he doesn't build a reaper (while you take the longer route with your lings assuming a reaper, making them arrive even later), and instead make marines on the low ground followed by a bunker. CC finishes and when your roaches get there, they gotta die if they want to kill the natural scvs/marines. Not sure if it's worth it letting them die like that.



Vs an incompetent terran however, he'll just let my three roaches stay on his nat for a long time and I can just run away once he pushes out.



I go roach ravager with this build. It just feels awkward transitioning into lings. Gotta research ling speed, drop that bane nest, and research bane speed.What I both love and hate about this build is how the reaction from the Terran varies a lot. He can drop his sphagetti and forget his macro, giving an easy win or he's going to stay calm and I got a harder game. In Diamond 2, you still get that wide variance of response, making me get cocky a lot of times and attack into a larger force than I was expecting.And with an SCV scout, he can see your pool first so he doesn't build a reaper (while you take the longer route with your lings assuming a reaper, making them arrive even later), and instead make marines on the low ground followed by a bunker. CC finishes and when your roaches get there, they gotta die if they want to kill the natural scvs/marines. Not sure if it's worth it letting them die like that.Vs an incompetent terran however, he'll just let my three roaches stay on his nat for a long time and I can just run away once he pushes out.

bulya Profile Joined February 2016 Israel 384 Posts #18 If they SCV scout and don't scout with the reaper you can do many things, just don't go for something middle of the road.

Either be super greedy (and if they are passive with bunkers in your league vs that, then great), take a very quick third (no reaper you can take it way earlier) and drone like a mad man, or go for something very committed (the muta switch Railgan proposed is one of them). If the Terran doesn't know what you are doing you can surprise him.

I found way of avoiding bunkers if they are put in bad locations (getting the roaches bruised but denying a lot of mining time and killing SCVs) , but I guess it doesn't happen in the more higher level.

Railgan Profile Joined August 2010 Switzerland 1483 Posts #19 On July 15 2017 20:28 bulya wrote:

If they SCV scout and don't scout with the reaper you can do many things, just don't go for something middle of the road.

Either be super greedy (and if they are passive with bunkers in your league vs that, then great), take a very quick third (no reaper you can take it way earlier) and drone like a mad man, or go for something very committed (the muta switch Railgan proposed is one of them). If the Terran doesn't know what you are doing you can surprise him.

I found way of avoiding bunkers if they are put in bad locations (getting the roaches bruised but denying a lot of mining time and killing SCVs) , but I guess it doesn't happen in the more higher level.

Yep even if they scout you can still deal damage to them with roaches. I mean just because you know 3 rax reaper is coming doesn't mean that you will automatically win right?



And you can do many different timings off a 3 roach opener (whether you build the roaches or not) you can even go for a roach speed timing or a ling roach bane bust or whatever you feel like Yep even if they scout you can still deal damage to them with roaches. I mean just because you know 3 rax reaper is coming doesn't mean that you will automatically win right?And you can do many different timings off a 3 roach opener (whether you build the roaches or not) you can even go for a roach speed timing or a ling roach bane bust or whatever you feel like Grandmaster Zerg from Switzerland!!! www.twitch.tv/railgan // www.twitter.com/railgansc // www.youtube.com/c/railgansc