More Delaware cities ban firearms at public meetings

The presence of an armed citizen might deter an angry gunman from opening fire in a public meeting.

That's a conviction held by Bob McGrath of New Castle, a spokesman for the gun rights group Delaware Open Carry, and others opposed to local governments banning the open carrying of firearms in public buildings. Doing so, they say, not only infringes on their Second Amendment rights but can make meeting attendees less safe.

"Honestly, you're opening up the door to a criminal to say, 'Hey, you know what? I know there's no firearms in here. I can come in and do whatever I want with no fear of being attacked in response,' " McGrath said.

Gun rights advocates and those who argue that the open presence of firearms can impede free expression when disagreements arise are on opposite sides of a growing debate in towns across Delaware.

A little more than a year ago, when Newark City Council said it wanted to ban people from openly carrying firearms into meetings, gun owners showed up armed to make the point that state law allowed them to be there.

Last summer, Gov. Jack Markell signed two measures to allow municipalities and counties to ban guns in public buildings, and by extension, at public meetings.

Newark hasn't taken up the measure yet. But at least a half-dozen municipal and county governments have either passed bans or are considering doing so.

The change is what legislators call an "opt-in" law. Local governments "may adopt ordinances regulating the possession of firearms, ammunition, components of firearms, or explosives in police stations and municipal buildings." A separate bill grants counties the same authority. Previous law said those governments could not enact laws to regulate firearms and ammunition. Laws or ordinances in effect prior to July 4, 1985 were not affected.

Delaware allows the open carrying of firearms as well as licensed concealed carry. Concealed or not, firearms were already off-limits in state courtrooms, Legislative Hall, and state or federal buildings prior to the change in the law.

While no one in recent memory has fired a weapon in a public meeting in Delaware, an increasing number of shootings in schools, movie theaters and churches have raised concerns about gun violence in public places. In August 2013, a man angry about the recent condemnation of his property opened fire at a Ross Township, Pennsylvania, town council meeting, killing three people.

Townsend Mayor Jermaine Hatton said that in addition to concern over the possibility of a heated disagreement turning into a shooting incident, a weapon can have a silencing effect on open dialogue.

"It could be as much as intimidating the resident who lives across the street who opposes what you're for, or vice versa," he said. "In a true democracy, there's no intimidation factor because of the brandishing of a gun."

For Newark resident Jeff Lawrence, that concern is countermanded by the Second Amendment of the U.S. Constitution: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

"Nowhere in the Constitution or any other document does it say that anyone has the right to not feel intimidated," said Lawrence, who frequently attends Newark City Council meetings and says those concerned about his legal right to carry a weapon in Delaware should exercise their right to question him about it.

"I would urge anyone that is concerned or nervous about the sight of a firearm to perhaps call somebody aside and talk to them," Lawrence said. "Tell me about it. [Ask me,] why are you carrying one?"

The debate played out in face-to-face fashion at the Oct. 8 meeting of Elsmere Town Council, where an ordinance to ban firearms from public buildings was up for final reading and drew a standing-room-only crowd of more than 100 people. For some in attendance and sitting on council, preserving Second Amendment rights was paramount, according to Mayor Steve Burg. Others vehemently disagreed.

"One gentleman said, 'What about my First Amendment rights?'," said Burg, recalling the man's remarks. "I have somebody sitting next to me with a gun; I don't want to be a little hesitant saying what I really want to say if they're opposed to what I'm saying."

The council split over the ordinance, 3 to 3; Burg cast the tying vote.

"A couple of the members on the council were saying we're infringing on the Second Amendment," Burg said. "And I'm not against open carry. I'm not against carrying a gun. I'm not against open carry. It's their right; they can do that. And we have a right to protect our town employees also."

One of the nays was cast by an ordinance co-sponsor. Councilwoman Joann Personti wanted to address employee concerns about safety, but said she had second thoughts about the measure by the time it came before council.

"The vagueness and broad exemptions in the ordinance, in addition to the lack of addressing all weapons, convinced me that this … was not an ordinance to keep town employees safe, but an ordinance to target and violate those exercising their Second Amendment rights," Personti said in an emailed statement.

Personti moved to table the ordinance for an independent review by a constitutional law attorney. That failed 4-3, prompting her to vote no, she said.

Debbie Norkavage, 6th District Councilwoman, said she had multiple reasons for voting yes. She cited the intimidation factor; the ability to assure those who voluntarily serve on groups such as the planning commission and board of adjustments that they "can meet in safe environments" and broader concerns about open carry.

"That means I don't have to take any class that teaches me how to use that weapon properly or safely; how when to not draw that weapon; or how to make others around me safe," said Norkavage, who said she has "no problem" with concealed carry.

"We have more restrictions on being able to drive a motor vehicle than we do being allowed to carry a firearm," she said, referring to open carry. "You have to pass a test to be able to drive a car in this state. But you don't have to do anything to be able to carry a weapon. And that to me is a little askew."

State permits to carry concealed weapons require fingerprinting and a background check, being photographed, publication of intent in a general-circulation newspaper and a legal review by the state attorney general's office and a court – and then, completion of an approved gun course. There are no such requirements for open carry of firearms.

A Newark resident who has "open carried" for about five years and has spoken before both the Elsmere and Newark councils on the issue said the ordinances won't accomplish anything because they do not ban concealed weapons – and therefore, aren't really about safety.

"If you look at both bills, they have nothing to do with keeping guns out of city council," said Martin Nicholson, who says he began carrying a firearm after his home was broken into multiple times. "It's about keeping open carry guns out of city council. So it's not about the gun. It's about the fear of someone seeing the gun. They want to equate the gun to an evil tool. And it's not. It's no different than a hammer, or a saw or a knife. You're gonna use them for what you're gonna use them for, good or bad.

"My firearm goes with me everywhere I'm legally permitted to carry it," Nicholson said. "There's no one to say when something's going to happen."

McGrath, who has a concealed carry permit but also sometimes open-carries, said he will put an open firearm away if someone says it bothers them.

"I've had instances before where someone has approached and stated that they're uncomfortable with my firearm," said McGrath, who runs a firearms training company. "And because I do have a concealed carry license, out of respect to them, I'll cover it up. I have no problem with that. I realize that some people who do not have a concealed license cannot do that, of course.

"I do that as a courtesy," McGrath said. "I like people to see that firearm owners are respectful people. We're not a bunch of gun-crazed redneck people … we're law-abiding citizens who want to protect ourselves."

In addition to Elsmere, bans on open carry in public buildings have been approved in Lewes, Newport and Delaware City. The measure has had a first reading in Townsend and Bethany Beach. A ban is also pending in Dover. "I'm considering it," said Dewey Beach Mayor Diane Manson. "It's at least something I would like to address on council."

Middletown has no ban in place and is not slated to take one up at the town's next monthly meeting, spokeswoman Kristen Krenzer said. Georgetown also has not moved on an ordinance, according to Mayor Bill West. The Town of Delmar also hasn't taken up the measure although, Town Manager Sara Bynum-King said, the issue is "certainly reason for concern, given the climate which we're in now."

At least two municipalities had instituted bans on their own prior to last summer. Seaford has a policy prohibiting firearms in City Hall, City Manager Delores Slatcher said.

In addition, Wilmington has historically prohibited the possession of "weapons of any kind" in the Louis L. Redding City/County Building or city-owned property, according to City Solicitor Michael Migliore. Still, the city is drafting for council's consideration a proposed ordinance along the lines of the state-sanctioned legislation to make "abundantly clear to folks what the law is," Migliore said.

Mitchell said New Castle County's interest in enabling legislation prompted him to add the second bill for the counties. The county does not have a open carry ban although it does have "security measures in place," according to spokesman Antonio Prado. County Executive Tom Gordon, he said, has no plans to ask County Council for such legislation.

While Kent County has not banned openly carried weapons from public buildings, it publicly urged the General Assembly this summer to pass the enabling legislation. It has not adopted an ordinance along the lines of the state law and has no plans to. But it has a longstanding policy of banning weapons from the Kent County Levy Court Complex, save for law enforcement personnel, spokeswoman Kia Evans said.

Sussex County also has not banned openly carried weapons from public buildings, and spokesman Chip Guy said there are no plans "at this point" to consider such legislation.

Laws regarding open possession of firearms in public buildings vary widely in surrounding states. New Jersey does not allow open or concealed carry without a difficult-to-obtain permit. Its municipalities can regulate the sale and use of guns, and are given wide latitude to enact policies "for the regulation of public health, safety and welfare" of residents, while county authority is less explicit. Open carry is permitted everywhere in Pennsylvania save for Philadelphia, where a license is required, but municipalities may not locally control firearms. Maryland does not allow open carry, and local governments can also regulate possession of weapons or ammunition "within 100 yards of or in a park, church, school, public building, and other place of public assembly."

Delaware's municipal bill had its roots in Elsmere and Newark, according to state Rep. Larry Mitchell, D-Elsmere (District 13) and Senate President Pro Tem Patricia Blevins, D-Elsmere, who co-sponsored the legislation. Both were approached by local officials and the Delaware League of Local Governments as last fall, the legislators said.

The proposed ban "kind of made sense," Mitchell said. "We don't allow it at Legislative Hall. So I thought it was probably necessary. Unfortunately, there are times in open public meetings when things could get heated, and elected officials could be intimidated."

"I think that the cities and towns in the states should have the same opportunity as the legislature does," Blevins said. "But it's up to those towns to decide what to do."

A proponent of gun rights who lobbied for same during the General Assembly's consideration said towns could have imposed restrictions without the state legislation.

"We didn't feel it was necessary to begin with," said Tom Shellenberger, spokesman for the Delaware State Sportsmen's Association. "It was sort of a reaction to some folks who'd open-carried, I think, in a city meeting in Newark. I argued then – and took a lot of heat for it from people on my side of the issue – that though the city of Newark couldn't under the law then pass a law saying you couldn't open carry in a city council meeting, they could have a rule - just like they can say you can't use your cellphone in the middle of a city council meeting. You can't talk for four hours."

The issue hasn't yet made its way onto Newark's agenda.

Mayor Polly Sierer confirmed that but wouldn't comment on why, despite repeated phone calls and email requests. City Manager Carol Houck said she couldn't say why Newark isn't taking action, despite being an early proponent for the state legislation.

According to District 2 Council Member Todd Ruckle, the state law is getting a local legal review – the same step Personti was aiming for in Elsmere.

"We don't know if it's constitutional or not," Ruckle said. "We have it with the city solicitor now to do the research to make sure that we have the right – even though it's a state law – that it's a constitutional right that we can do this."

Over the winter of 2013-14, gun owners upset that the Newark City Council was considering such a ban on weapons began arriving at council meetings carrying firearms openly. And while "no one has raised concerns" since the state law went into effect, openly armed individuals have continued to intermittently attend meetings, she said.

In February 2014, Houck told The News Journal the city's consideration of various security upgrades was on hold while it waited for an Attorney General opinion on what measures it was allowed to take under current law. The law, of course, has changed.

"I would like it to see the light of day so we can have a conversation," Houck said last week.

Ruckle said he'll go the way his constituents want him to go. And with a police officer now assigned to each council meeting, he said, "I feel very safe." But he said that the presence of openly carried weapons seemed to defuse an uncomfortable moment during a 2014 council meeting. It took place, he said, when tensions were high in Newark over University of Delaware plans to allow a data center and co-generation power plant to be built on its adjunct STAR Campus.

"We had two gentlemen who came in there in these all-black outfits," he said. They didn't appear to be armed, he said, but "they wouldn't sit down, and they were just acting real funny – like, hopping around in the back. It was kind of really freaky. Their body language was just very suspicious, very scary. And then there were about eight guys [openly carrying] guns. And I texted one of them that I know and said, `One of your guys?' And he said no. And then all eight of those guys … they all stared at them. They saw these guys' guns, and they took off.

"But it also has a side effect," Ruckle added. "Because there are people that hate guns. So they don't show up at the meetings, because they're scared, because someone's up there being loud and vocal, and they have this gun on them, and it scares them. So I see both sides of the coin on this."

Townsend's Hatton said he realizes an open-carry ban alone won't stop someone determined to carry out a violent act.

"It's a piece of paper," said Hatton, who would have preferred that the state allow the banning of all weapons from meetings. "Our ban of guns coming in municipal buildings is nothing more than another one of those laws. If you're gonna bring a gun in, you're gonna bring it, regardless."

But like others who favor the state law, Hatton said he sees it as a deterrent to potential violence.

"Ultimately, all we want to do is protect our employees, other residents and council," he said.

William H. McMichael is on Twitter: @billmcmichael.