Symantec and McAfee are two top contenders when it comes to antivirus software. But one of them needs to re-educate its support technicians...again.

Last year I reported on a significant problem with Symantec's tech support for their Norton products. A number of their support technicians strongly steered all customers toward Symantec's extra-cost virus removal service rather than offering to help them in any other available ways. Symantec responded that one particular support office had gone "" and that their actions were counter to company policy.

This week, in the course of evaluating Norton AntiVirus 2010, I ran into exactly the same problem. The product installed without difficulty on eleven of my twelve malware-infested test systems. It even performed some clever self-diagnostics to get past problems that have stymied other security products, like a malware threat that installed itself as a proxy controlling all Internet access. But on one test system, Norton AntiVirus stubbornly refused to installeven in Safe Mode. After working through the help system's various options, I hooked up with chat-based support and got the runaround from two different techs. Following up, I obtained official policy statements from Symantec and also from McAfee regarding just what you can expect from their tech support.

Tech Support  Round One

The very first thing the support technician did, without exploring any alternatives or asking me for details, was push me toward the extra-cost virus removal service. This excerpt from the chat transcript speaks for itself:

Agent: From looking at your issue, it appears that your computer may be infected by a virus. To help you with removing this virus off your computer what I can do for you is to transfer you across to our fee-based virus removal specialist team. Would this be ok with you?

Me: Fee-based? Don't be silly. All I want to do is install NAV2010. Surely you have some tools or something to get it past the install problem?

Agent: All antivirus softwares are reactive and sensitive software. They will not get installed in a computer which is already infected with any virus, worm or spy ware. In these situations even if the product gets installed it will not get installed properly in your computer and starts to give you error messages. So, after removing the infections only you can install the software successfully

Me: OK, so your statement is that NAV2010 is incapable of cleaning up the problems on my system, and that my only hope is to pay much more than the product would cost in order to get it installed. Correct?

Agent: It is not like that. Once you have a virus on your computer, it may attack Norton and prevent it from working properly; in these cases, the virus must be removed manually. Norton offers free, do-it-yourself support options as well as a paid service where we take care of removing threats for you.

Me: OK, what are my do-it-yourself options?

Agent: They will let you know all the details. May I transfer you?

Me: Transfer me to paid support? *NO*!

Agent: The charges and other information will be informed to you in advance. They will let you know the free do it yourself steps also.

At this point I agreed to talk with the specialist. Notice that I asked the tech specifically about any tools that might help with the problem, giving him a clear opportunity to recommend the Norton Bootable Recovery Tool. He never did, and he repeatedly stated that if Norton won't install due to malware, the threat must be removed manually.

Tech Support  Round Two

Knowing that I could at least talk to the virus removal specialist without incurring a $99 charge, I went ahead. Unfortunately the second-tier expert wasn't any more helpful. Here are the relevant portions of that conversation:

Agent: As I understand from your issue description, your computer is infected with a malware which is blocking the installation of the Norton product and you need help in removing the infection. Is that correct?

Me: Really, I just need help getting NAV installed. I'm sure it will take care of the malware if it can get past the initial obstacle. Maybe you have some kind of pre-install tool to help with this problem? I know some other companies do.

Agent: Neil, may I know the name of the infection?

Me: The error messages that come up do not mention any name

Agent: Neil, the technician from the technical support team has transferred you to the virus removal department because the technician detected the presence of infection on your computer that is preventing you from installing the Antivirus program, so in such a case we need to remove the infections manually before we can install any antivirus programs.

Me: Yes, he said that.

Agent: Neil, there are multiple options for virus/malware removal available. The primary options are: 1. Do-It-Yourself (DIY) procedures available on the Norton Support website. 2. Fee-based Premium Services whereby Norton technicians remove infections. The DIY options on the Norton Support website provide step-by-step removal for most infections . Highly technical users often find these instructions sufficient . For users who do not find the standard Norton Support options sufficient, Norton has expert technicians on staff who can remove infections for you at a fee .

Me: Absolute NO to fee-based services. I did not find the DIY services on the web site. Where do I find that?

Agent: Norton provides free online support that has 'step by step instructions' to remove the threats from your computer. The free online support is available to you at http://www.norton.com/virushelp. Type in the relevant threat name in the search box to view the relevant instructions

Me: And how do I determine the name? [[The tech simply ignored this question.]]

Agent: Neil, if you wish to proceed with our premium paid support, our expert technicians will do a detail diagnosis of your computer and remove any infection present on it.

Me: IN SHORT: NAV2010 is not capable of installing and cleaning up this computer unless I pay a very large amount of money. Please confirm this is correct

Me: Again, my conclusion is that NAV2010 itself is incapable of cleaning up this system because it will not install. Please confirm that this is correct

Me: NAV2010 alone will not clean up my computer. Yes or no?...

Agent: If a virus is already present on your computer prior to installation, Norton products may not be able address the issue.

Here again I asked about some kind of tool that might clear the system enough to install Norton, but the tech blew off that question. After my repeated queries he eventually stated that Norton won't necessarily clean up a system that already has malware. 

The Official Word from Symantec

I checked with my Symantec contacts and they were shocked! shocked! to find that online tech support is still funneling users toward the expensive malware removal service rather than actually helping them. I asked them exactly what users should expect when malware interferes with their attempts to install a Norton product. Here's what they had to say.

"Norton products (NAV, NIS and N360) are generally used to help keep a system malware free. However, we know that many users install Norton after they've already been infected. We know from independent 3rd party tests that we generally do very well at cleaning systems that are already infected

If the Norton software installs normally, we will scan to remove any malware that we detect. If the Norton software can NOT install, we will automatically initiate a pre-install scan to remove any malware that we detect. This step is specifically designed to clean up malware that is already present on a user's system prior to Norton being installed. If the system is so infected that the step above is not successful or the system won't even boot, we recommend booting from the install CD which contains the Norton Bootable Recovery Disk. Once booted, Norton can scan the infected system without being compromised by any of the OS which may be infected. We then repair both the disk and the registry. The Retail CD is bootable and users who don't have media can create this CD on another system. Coming soon, we will deliver a new stand-alone scanner that is both available from within the product and available as a download. This scanner will provide very aggressive detection and remediation for systems that are already highly infected.

In a nutshell, we want to deliver the right tool for the right problem to maximize effectiveness and minimize false positives. We've designed Norton NAV, NIS, and N360 to operate much like the local police force: Keeping users safe day in and day out. However, sometimes we need Special Weapons and Tactics to operate more aggressively to match these more aggressive threats. This new, more aggressive scanner and the Norton Bootable Recovery Disk are our "SWAT team." However, these tactics are not always appropriate in everyday situations. We believe that a SWAT team is the right choice when there's a bank robbery with hostages, but you don't need or even want the SWAT team responding to traffic accidents or loud parties."

In short, if your Norton product has trouble installing, it should automatically invoke its own troubleshooting tools including a pre-install scanner. If that doesn't work the next step is Norton's bootable recovery disk which cleans up the malware without every launching your regular Windows operating system. Symantec is confident these steps will get your Norton product installed, at which point it can take over for a full cleanup. (And in fact the bootable recovery disk did solve the problem with my infested test system).

The Official Word from McAfee

I also ran into installation problems in my recent review of . The product either wouldn't install or wouldn't run on six of the twelve infested test systems. McAfee's online support technicians offered a whole host of tools to correct these problems  Virtual Technician, Stinger, FreeScan, and more. Even after running through these options I still had one system where McAfee wouldn't install and one where it wouldn't run after installation.

Like Symantec, McAfee offers an extra-cost virus removal service, but in a case like mine where the product won't even install or run due to malware the support technicians can escalate to the virus removal service without invoking the fee. It took some timehours actuallybut the experts cleaned up both systems, allowing the product to install and run correctly.

I asked my McAfee contacts to verify that giving users free access to the advanced virus removal service is standard policy, not something they did just for me. Here's their official policy statement:

"McAfee strives to ensure that all consumers who purchase our products are extremely satisfied with their purchases. We offer consumers a 60 day money back guarantee for all purchases from McAfee. Additionally, consumers in direct and retail channels are entitled to free 30 day phone support and unlimited chat support for the duration of their subscription.

Should a customer experience problems related to malware infections upon installation, there are several options from McAfee Technical Support.

First, McAfee advises them about McAfee's free virus removal tools, such as Stinger, as well as malware removal instructions posted in McAfee's Virus Information Library. McAfee also provides links to approved freeware malware removal tools within the McAfee Community Forum as well as postings pertaining to virus infections.

If after all free options are explored, and "live" assistance is still needed to remove malware, customers are told about McAfee's Virus Removal Service. This service leverages remote assistance technology, allowing the customer to watch the removal process as they speak with the McAfee agent by phone. As long as the consumer has purchased their product directly from McAfee or from the retail channel, McAfee will waive all fees for the "live" assistance involving the removal of malware from a consumer's system and installation of McAfee security suites. "

In other words, if you've paid for your McAfee product they will exert all efforts up to and including the normally fee-based malware cleanup service to make sure you can use the product you bought. That's a powerful statement, and it's more than Symantec offers.

Get the Support You Deserve

If you've purchased a security suite or anti-malware tool to clean up problems on your computer, you can reasonably expect the product to do that job. If self-defending malware interferes with installation or prevents the product from running its anti-malware scan you can reasonably expect the vendor to help you with the problem. And if they just can't get the product installed, you can reasonably expect your money back. What isn't remotely reasonable is the idea that you should pay big bucks for the privilege of installing the program you've already bought.

Symantec's official position is that tech support should help with the problem and at least direct you to the bootable scanner which they hope will solve the installation problem. McAfee will invoke their normally-costly remediation service to make sure you can install the product. Sunbelt Software is even more proactive. The price of their anti-malware tool specifically includes any necessary remediation. Sunbelt's CEO Alex Eckelberry says "We provide 100% free support to any customer, regardless of the issue. This includes install problems, a malware infestation, whatever. In the case of a malware infestation, we have a dedicated malware removal team which will do whatever it takes to get the customer clean, including remoting in and cleaning a system." Not only that, Sunbelt's tech support team is entirely U.S.-based.

What You Can Do

If you can't install your security software and tech support insists that the only solution is an extra-cost expert cleanup, don't accept. Disconnect and try another technician, if you have to, or a supervisor. If they really can't or won't help, ask for your money back. You bought the software; you deserve the opportunity to use it.

Blow the whistle if tech support goes truly out of line. Save a transcript of your session and send it to me. I'll do my best to get you the support you deserve and, if necessary, follow up with another report like this one.