MacOS Catalina is here, and it's... kind of a mess. In this episode, Devindra and Cherlynn are joined by Engadget Editor-in-Chief Dana Wollman to discuss Apple's latest desktop OS. The big question: Is Catalina Apple's Vista? (Pro-tip: Don't rush to upgrade.) We also ponder what Google will show off at next week's Pixel event; chat about PG&E's widespread power outages in California; and dive into the weirdness of Andy's Rubin's latest Essential phone, Project Gem.

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Hosts: Devindra Hardawar and Cherlynn Low

Producer: Ben Ellman

Music: Terrence O'Brien