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Oscar-winning documentarian Errol Morris spoke to Business Insider about his journey to get his new movie, „American Dharma,“ to theaters.

The movie is an interview with former White House chief strategist Steve Bannon, and most in the industry didn’t want any part of it. Morris said he was told the movie was „toxic.“ (Distribution company Utopia eventually bought it.)

Morris didn’t hold back in describing how frustrating the process has been. He even thought of quitting filmmaking.

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Errol Morris has had enough.

Since the Oscar-winning documentarian received a standing ovation at the Venice Film Festival last September following the world premiere of his latest movie, „American Dharma“ — in which he interviews former executive executive chairman of Breitbart News and White House chief strategist Steve Bannon — everything has gone downhill.

Distributors refused to buy the movie because, according to Morris, they thought it was „toxic“; Morris‘ tactics as a filmmaker and motives for making the movie were questioned on social media.

Morris said he’s run the gamut of emotions, from defiance (once planning to self distribute the movie) to submission (contemplating quitting filmmaking). Finally in August it was announced that newcomer Utopia would release the movie („American Dharma“ opens in select theaters starting Friday). But the whole experience has left Morris with a bad taste in his mouth about the industry and the country at large.

Morris is known for his in-depth discussions with polarizing political figures.

In 2013, he interviewed the former secretary of defense to President George W. Bush, Donald Rumsfeld, for the movie „The Unknown Known.“ And in 2003’s „The Fog of War,“ he interviewed Robert McNamara, who was the secretary of defense through the Vietnam War. That movie earned Morris an Oscar — which is why Morris is so puzzled „American Dharma“ has received such a venomous reaction. In this film, Morris has heated exchanges with Bannon on topics his critics want him to address, similar to his interviews with McNamara and Rumsfeld. But many felt Morris was more friendly toward Bannon than he was with his previous subjects.

Morris has another theory why he’s getting so much heat over the movie: „America has gone crazy.“

Business Insider spoke with Morris in New York City earlier this week about his struggle to get „American Dharma“ in theaters, why he thinks it’s his best movie yet, and how it’s more relevant now than a year ago.

This interview has been edited for length and clarity.

Jason Guerrasio: Congrats on people finally being able to see the movie.

Errol Morris: It shouldn’t, if I may be so bold, be amazing. But it is amazing.

Guerrasio: Does it still boggle your mind that here we are over a year from its Venice premiere and it’s finally being seen?

Morris: My mind comes pre-boggled, so maybe not. But that week at the Venice Film Festival had to be one of the weirdest most surreal weeks of my life. The movie received a standing ovation from a very crowded theater at the Venice Film Festival. A long standing ovation, it went through the entire credits. And then it was savaged by a whole number of critics who seemed not even to have looked at the movie. I found it weird.

Guerrasio: And Bannon was there in Venice at the time, but was not at the premiere. Was it your call to not have him in the theater?

Morris: I didn’t want it to be my call one way or the other. I just did not want to be involved.

Guerrasio: Meaning, you didn’t invite him to come to Venice, he just came on his own?

Morris: I believe that when we negotiated a deal with Bannon he was to be given tickets to the first public screening. I hope I remember this correctly. It didn’t seem to be a big deal one way or the other. When the time rolled around for the premiere of the film I thought even if we’re technically required to give him tickets to the screening I would rather remain out of it. But I’m not going to stand on the stage and share the applause. I’m not going to do interviews with him. What I didn’t expect, and maybe I’m an idiot, was how angry people could get over this entire film. The whole thing is too bizarre, even for me and I’m a connoisseur of the bizarre.

Guerrasio: In February you send out a tweet, „F–k ‚em. I’ll distribute the movie myself.“ By that time literally every door had been shut in regards to getting the film distributed?

American Dharma Toronto International Film Festival Toronto International Film Festival

Morris: Yes!

Guerrasio: And what were the reasons given?

Morris: There were many reasons given, and often in this case there were no reasons given.

Guerrasio: But the last response I could imagine is, „We don’t know how to market this movie,“ because it’s pretty obvious how.

Morris: „We don’t know how to market this movie.“ „We don’t want this movie.“ A word that kept coming up was „deplatforming.“ And the word „toxic.“ „This movie is toxic.“ As if I am feeding the public poison. Literally. „This should not be shown.“

Guerrasio: Someone said that, „This should not be shown“?

Morris: People have said everything to me in the last year. I even thought about giving up filmmaking.

Guerrasio: It got to that point?

Morris: It got to that point. Also, I think this is one of my best films. It’s something that I believe is an advance in documentary. It’s an extension of stuff I’ve been playing with and working on over all my films for a good number of decades now. So I found it disheartening. Instead of talking about the film I found myself in conversations on if this film should exist. I was at the Nieman Foundation talking to a number of fellows and one woman, before asking to have a selfie with me, said to me, „You know this is not the right way to interview Steve Bannon. You know this.“ [Pause.] No, I don’t! I do now know this. Wrong!

Guerrasio: Were you ever at a point where you gave the DIY route a serious thought.

Morris: I did give it a serious thought, but all my movies have been theatrically distributed, why not this one? Look, America has gone crazy. It is a crazy a– country.

Guerrasio: Here’s what I was thinking this past year while you were going through this: What if you made this movie five years from now? Is this a case where the wound was still too fresh? I feel this would have happened if you talked to Rumsfeld right after he left the Bush administration.

Morris: I think yes. But does that mean I shouldn’t have done it? No. The wound is too fresh and people couldn’t believe what happened on election day in 2016. The election was driving everyone crazy. It’s still producing such a culture shock in America. I saw myself as, stupid me, doing some good by looking at this. Examining it. Did I anticipate people calling it a „bromance“? No. And I still can’t believe it.

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Guerrasio: And you thought timelines was key. You wanted this out during the midterm elections.

Morris: I thought it could help. And I wanted to weigh in on the midterms and the 2020 election. I thought I could do something useful by making this movie.

Guerrasio: Do you feel you have missed your window?

Morris: No, he’s right back in it. He’s an advisor again. (Bannon is the host of a daily online broadcast in defense of Trump during the impeachment inquiry.)

Guerrasio: Oh yeah, I think I read that.

Morris: I’ll forgive you, but that’s another crazy set of questions I’ve had to deal with.

Guerrasio: No, give it to me! I should read up more.

Morris: When it was first shown in Venice it was, „How dare you make this!“ Now people have said to me, „This movie is irrelevant because he’s irrelevant.“ So, okay, all of you just go f–k yourselves.

Guerrasio: [Laughs.] That’s fair. Listen, you are in a no-win situation.

Morris: I feel he and the issues are still relevant. You know I came to love McNamara even though I think he’s a war criminal. And some people hated that movie because some thought I wasn’t fair enough to him while others felt I was too fair to him. Rummy was hated, and people hated the movie because he didn’t show any remorse.

Guerrasio: The big difference between those two movies and this is the advent of social media.

Morris: I think that’s absolutely correct. Which is part of the story of „American Dharma.“ And Bannon was the first to figure out social media for political gain, which he’s hated for but people should pay attention. Be on guard. You know, Peter Schweizer wrote a book called „Clinton Cash,“ Bannon mentions it in the movie. It helped in Hillary Clinton losing the election. Schweizer wrote a book after that on the Bidens and the Ukraine. So if you think this isn’t still with us you’re an idiot. You’re an ostrich with your f—ing head in the ground.