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A growing number of firms are opting to ditch a university degree as a requirement for a job. So are academic qualifications still an essential requirement for a modern career? RN Breakfast hears from a panel of experts.

Publishing giant Penguin Random House announced this week that it would drop the requirement for job applicants to have degrees. The company says there's growing evidence that having a degree is no predictor of future professional success.

Learning is part of a career in the workforce. That's the big message that both employees and employers need to get.

Last year consulting firms Ernst and Young and PricewaterhouseCoopers both indicated they would no longer consider university or high school marks at all when assessing job candidates.

Three experts joined RN Breakfast to discuss whether employers still value a university education: Peter Wilson, chair of the Australian Human Resources Institute and secretary general of the World HR Federation; Professor Beverley Oliver, deputy vice chancellor of Deakin University and fellow of the Australian Learning and Teaching Council; and Deb Eckersley, managing partner of human capital at PricewaterhouseCoopers Australia.

Why are some employers going cold on degrees?

Deb Eckersley: As Penguin have said, the marks you get at uni aren't really a predictor of future success. We certainly still value university degrees and we have a lot of programs targeted at graduates, but we also hire people without degrees when they've got the right experience for the job that we're looking for and can show potential for success.

What if it's a relatively junior job?

DE: In limited circumstances. We still value someone who has had the tenacity and intelligence to stick out a university degree and we think they learn some good things there. But we also recognise when we're hiring people that it's not just what they've done at uni, it's what they've done outside university.

Does it surprise you that big employers are making these announcements after years of emphasis on tertiary education?

Peter Wilson: There's an inherent dilemma here, in that I think employers are employing more rigorous evaluation processes to look at people coming in, but the minimum requirement of a degree is being eased away and employers are looking at a range of techniques and tests to assess the capability of the person to work well. We're seeing words in recruiting ads like 'a sound basic degree or comparable equivalent', and those three words weren't there before.

That's confusing, though, isn't it? What is a comparable equivalent?

PW: Indeed. A university degree shows your ability to analyse and reason complex problems over a long time. That's still the case, but it's now moved from being an exclusive requirement to being an inclusive requirement. It's one of the things employers look at, but they also look at whether you've worked in a digital space in a range of different ways and there will be tests that they'll apply to assess your capability to understand what digital disruption means for your industry and where your career might go.

Is this notion that you don't need a degree worrying for the university sector?

Beverley Oliver: It doesn't bother me at all. I think it's a good thing. I think credentials are things we all look for, they're signals. We look for experience or a degree completed or a course. There are many ways of getting a degree, of course. For example there are competency-based models and other things that actually go towards getting a bigger credential such as a degree.

This message has been loud and clear for some time to higher education providers. I think the sector has made great changes over the last 15 years, particularly making sure the degree is a signifier of a more than just marks and grades.

Are these company announcements an indictment of standards at universities? Have they dropped as university has been opened up?

BO: I don't think it's an indictment, I think it's a signal and we should use it to improve what we do. We can always improve what we do and of course employers can as well. In Australia several years ago we introduced the Australian Higher Education Graduate Statement. That actually gives a bit more clarity to employers. That was a signal that the degree wasn't telling people enough; even though it is a degree, it needs to be clearly communicated.

Is the problem that the degree isn't telling employers enough, or that it isn't giving employees enough?

Deb Eckersley: I think it gives a foundation, but what we're often looking for is collaborative skills, social skills. We find that people coming out of uni have often studied one thing very deeply but what our clients and what the business community is looking for more broadly is a diversity of skills. We often joke about looking for unicorns who have great business skills, are great at digital technology, are great at being social and relationships, and how you bring all that together is sometimes a challenge at university.

Is this change related to the digital divide, then?

DE: It always depends on the job you're hiring for, but absolutely. We're always looking for people who have those social media and digital skills and who understand what's happening globally, not just locally. In some cases people have got that better through practical experience. Not all the time, but in some cases they have. I think it would be wrong to say that just because someone has gone to university that makes them better than someone who has been doing it in their garage for a few years developing apps, for example.

Is this new for the university sector, that some people aren't necessarily suited to university?

Beverley Oliver: I think we're starting to see the un-bundling of degrees. There are start ups in the States, for example, like Udacity, which started off as a MOOC—a massive open online course—and now has courses and credentials in the IT industry. Microsoft and other companies have been giving their own certifications for some time.

The whole idea of broader graduate learning outcomes is something that has been absolutely widespread across the sector in Australia for the last 15 years. We at Deakin, for example, build in communications skills, thinking skills, teamwork, digital literacy into every degree.

What would your advice be to employees who want to get into some of these major companies, then?

Peter Wilson: I think employees should target advanced study that reflects their interests and job aptitudes. But they are expected to be digitally capable. I think employers are also testing for basic intelligence, emotional intelligence and, for those dealing internationally, cross-cultural abilities. All of those things are added on to a basic core degree.

I think the other thing with digital disruption is that employers like PWC and others realise that a career is now a continuous learning imperative. They have to train and induct graduates for one to two years from the time they're recruited from university but it never ends. Learning is part of a career in the workforce. That's the big message that both employees and employers need to get.

The OECD did a study which showed the links between business and universities in Australia are the lowest of the OECD group. There's no doubt both sides have a capacity to do better.

Are academic qualifications still necessary? Listen to the full discussion on RN Breakfast.

RN Breakfast is the show informed Australians wake up to. Start each day with comprehensive coverage and analysis of national and international events, and hear interviews with the people who matter today—along with those who'll be making news tomorrow.

