DeuceDouglas MVP



OVR: 22

Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Seattle, WA

Re: Connected Franchise Mode: A Rebuild



Franchise Mode OVR Revamp



The OVR rating has become a bit synonymous with Madden over the years whether it be through the annual release of the top players at each position, top rookies or the "coveted" 99 rating. It can't be denied that most, if not all, of that revolves around being marketing to draw interest into the upcoming years game but regardless of such the overall has been and continues to be the most commonly recognized indicator of a players value not just in Madden, but in pretty much every sports game. The vast majority of people will compare two players and when given the option will choose the 80 over the 75, the 90 over the 81 and so on.



Now as most of us here know, the overall doesn't really mean anything and hasn't for years, if ever. With so many positional ratings and the fact that the rating is unfortunately still so heavily weighted on the mythical AWR rating, OVR does a really poor job at painting the picture of a players value which is essentially it's only purpose.



Why does this matter? In a mode like MUT or Online H2H, it really doesn't affect much. While building your team strictly based off OVR's could be detrimental in a MUT setting, MUT does a great job at not only



So basically, the mechanic you have in CFM that is used not only to give the user a quick snapshot of a players value (which in turn can greatly affect the average users decision making) but to also heavily dictate the decision making of AI controlled teams is this:





And therein lies the rub.



A common sentiment I've seen and heard over the years is to just get rid of it, which makes sense I mean if it doesn't matter then why have it, right?



Not exactly. Even if you get rid of the OVR (which will never happen as it is too far ingrained as part of Madden's culture) it would likely only be on the front end and would still be likely controlling the same things and working the same way under the hood as it is now. This doesn't really solve anything and probably ends up creating more issues and inconveniences for users than it solves. The solution should be to take what by their own words does nothing and doesn't matter and turn it into something that that does both which is what I'm going to try and outline here.



The idea here is take the OVR rating and change it from something that really only gives a snapshot of his ability as a player into something used to identify and somewhat quantify his value to an organization. The goal is also to transform the OVR rating into something that can serve a variety of purposes within CFM and (ideally) adapt to the situation and not only help inform users of what would be smarter decisions over the course of their franchise but also give the AI more tools to be able to make both smarter and more realistic decisions based on those situations.



Age

This is an obvious one. As players get older it's becomes more and more apparent that their days are becoming numbered. Teams are always looking to get younger and when put in a situation where they can get close to the same output out of a player they will almost always choose the younger and likely cheaper player. Obviously this isn't always the case and there are certain situations where a veteran player is valued much more than a younger player. You typically see this when teams are looking for a quick replacement or at a position where there is no veteran presence. It's largely a circumstance thing and it's something the game should attempt to reflect. Rebuilding teams will value youth while teams in more of a win-now mode will tend to value known commodities and will take more chances with veteran players while trying to make a run.



Intangibles/Ability

The age old way the overall has been formulated and would still be part of the equation. This part would be based on a players perceived ability. I've talked at length about how I feel like there should be a knowledge system when it came to a players ability meaning that the more time a player played/practiced and spent time in the league the more certain you would become about his ability over that time. Teams won't always simply take a player who is better on the field and making this just a portion of the overall rather than pretty much the whole thing would help create more dynamic situations.



Potential

This is the one factor that I really want to see involved into overall calculation. Having it be on the surface is something I really dislike and it isn't realistic at all. But the idea here is that the better a players potential, the more positive impact it would have on their overall. This gives more value to players who are likely to progress better rather than treating them the same as other players whose careers are going nowhere. MVP 2005 did this and it's something that I think would fit very well into Madden. This would be something that after a few seasons or once a player reached his "peak" would stop factoring into his overall because what he could become will have already been realized and known at that point. If potential or the DEV trait transitioned into a regression trait then you could have that factor into the overall in the same way where players who regress slower would be more valuable while the ones that drop off faster are less valuable.



Production

This is something Madden tried to do and I'm not really sure why they didn't continue to develop it but production should be a major factor into a players overall. If a 75 QB throws for 50 TD's and 5000 yards, the rest of the league should treat him more like a QB in the 90's than still a 75. In Madden however, that player could go from having a record breaking season to a third string QB because he's simply always viewed as that 75 OVR QB. The off-season hits and the AI sees 75 and says "we need to upgrade" so they draft a QB first round or he hits free agency and he gets signed to a measly contract to be backup for an 80 QB who threw 20 interceptions last season simply because 80>75. In reality, that QB should be aiming for a monster contract and should be treated like one.



This is the factor that would likely have the biggest chance of causing problems within CFM simply because of the type of situation I outlined before. You could take what amounts to a 75 QB, have a couple great seasons and then deal him for significantly better capital whether it be in the form of better players who haven't produced for CPU teams or draft picks. When you look at it, it's not really that unrealistic and ideally the other factors would play enough of a role where they'd be able to mitigate being able to fleece the CPU but ultimately I think this would pose the biggest problem in user leagues that weren't completely full. Ironically though I think this type of thing could also thrive in 32-man leagues where trades would become a little bit more of a chess match between owners and unknown when it came to negotiating.



The main thing here though is to treat players like how they would (and should) be perceived under real life circumstances. If an 80 OLB get 20 sacks in a contract year he should be asking for Von Miller or top OLB money, not simply 80 OVR money. That's something CFM really misses on and part of what plays a huge role in it feeling so lifeless. Some people might scoff at the fact that an 80 overall player is asking for 99 OVR money but to me that's the type of thing that would make CFM and especially team management more interesting.



Contract

One thing Madden 07 did that was really cool was there was periods in the offseason where the game would evaluate bad contract situations for your team and present you with the option to cut them during the offseason to save cap. Like a lot of things back then, it didn't exactly work great but it was a really good base to be built on moving forward. Having bad contracts lower a players overall would not only help users rid themselves of players with potential to create frustrating cap issues but also help the AI make more intelligent decisions when it comes to the cap simply by not valuing those players as much as they normally would. This is also something that would be best if it were cross-referenced with production and age to make it even more effective for identifying players that aren't performing in line with the money they're making or are making vastly more than other players at their age.



Scheme

This is another thing CFM has tried to do but again seemed like it was never really fleshed out in a way where it really affected anything. This would act pretty much the same as it does now where players that fit schemes would have their overall boosted and players that didn't would have their overall reduced. IMO the entire scheme system needs to be tweaked and refined to be more coherent and useful but working with what's there this would factor mostly into 3-4, 4-3 situations more than anything and wouldn't have as big of an effect on overall as the others I've already mentioned.



Other Possibile Factors



Morale

I wanted to include this here but admittedly it's something that would probably just work better on it's own as a part of a morale mechanic than being included here. It would be nice and I think pretty cool to have it play into this but the idea I have in my head would make things more complicated than they needed to be and would likely cause a good amount of confusion for average users. Basically my thought was players with negative morale would have a lower OVR when it came to transactions but their OVR when it came to the depth chart wouldn't be affected. So say you're trying to trade this player, other teams would value you him less because of his morale issues and the fact that they'd know you're trying to unload him and at no advantage in negotiations. This would really be the only application where the OVR changing would actually make sense though and even then having different OVR's between transactions and depth charts would be very confusing. Other ideas I had would include players with higher morale being open to taking a "hometown discount" but that doesn't really work in the sense of changing OVR and like I said it's something that would work much better independently of this as it's own mechanic.



Draft Status

This is another minor one that I think falls more in line with potential and could be lumped with that as perceived potential. Players who are drafted higher get many more chances in the league than players who go late or undrafted. You see guys all the time who are drafted high get chance after chance with teams despite proving they're nothing more than a draft bust simply because teams think they're the ones that can finally tap into his potential. Not really necessary though, just an additional thought.







One key thing here I think is keeping the amount of factors to a minimum and keeping it more on the simple side. I think the six factors I listed are just about right and wouldn't risk there being "too many ingredients in the kitchen" feeling or make anything overly complicated. Undoubtedly there'd be some growing pains with this system but the intent here isn't to create something that works flawlessly out of the gate because I think that's always an unrealistic expectation, it's to create something that has a widespread impact throughout the mode that could continue to grow and improve upon that impact as it became more refined. Another key here is that this isn't an all encompassing fix that will suddenly make the AI treat their rosters realisticly, it would only really help in making the decisions they made to be "smarter." Until is something is done to control the logic and frequency behind the moves the AI makes the chaotic nature to their roster management will continue to occur.



From a user standpoint this would aim to benefit everyone from the casual to the hardcore. For the casual gamer it would broaden the amount of useful information that is taken into account when making roster management decisions while still presenting it in a simplistic, easy to understand manner. So before where as they might be looking at keeping an 80 versus a 78 and instinctevly taking the 80, they will still be presented with the same kind of decision but with more critical information taken into account for them. Let's say the 80 is an aging corner coming off a huge contract while the 78 is an undrafted gem with good potential. Under the current system it'd be 80 vs. 78 and that might be that however with the other factors taken into account maybe the 80 is now looked at as a 75 because he is old, wants more money than he is worth, and is dwindling ability wise. While on the other side the 78 is looked at as an 80 because he's younger, cheaper, and has a higher ceiling. So it's a situation where the user could use the exact same process and logic in their decision making but end up making a "smarter" move simply based on how relevant information was presented to them.



For the hardcore user it lays the ground work for much smarter and more realistic roster management from the AI. In User leagues it opens up a new dynamic when it comes to players and how they're perceived and looked at in your league. No longer could a user get away with throwing for 5000 yards with a 70 QB and not have to pay them. Free agent gems and busts and trades would also become more dynamic and intriguing between users. Looking into the future it could also be used as a base to create unique GM personalities if they were ever to be implemented. Each GM could have their own unique formula similar to schemes where they value players differently based on the factors as well as the teams outlook for a given season. Maybe for one GM age isn't as much of an issue so a player that's older isn't devalued as much to their team like he would for a team with a GM who values raw potential over everything. Was going to create a new thread for this but figured it would fit better in here.The OVR rating has become a bit synonymous with Madden over the years whether it be through the annual release of the top players at each position, top rookies or the "coveted" 99 rating. It can't be denied that most, if not all, of that revolves around being marketing to draw interest into the upcoming years game but regardless of such the overall has been and continues to be the most commonly recognized indicator of a players value not just in Madden, but in pretty much every sports game. The vast majority of people will compare two players and when given the option will choose the 80 over the 75, the 90 over the 81 and so on.Now as most of us here know, the overall doesn't really mean anything and hasn't for years, if ever. With so many positional ratings and the fact that the rating is unfortunately still so heavily weighted on the mythical AWR rating, OVR does a really poor job at painting the picture of a players value which is essentially it's only purpose.Why does this matter? In a mode like MUT or Online H2H, it really doesn't affect much. While building your team strictly based off OVR's could be detrimental in a MUT setting, MUT does a great job at not only showing you intangibles but also comparing those intangibles which is also essentially the only variable when it comes to determining one players value to another making breakdowns and decisions easy and efficient. Things like age and/or salary aren't a factor so pretty much every comparison is ability vs. ability. However when it comes to CFM in particular, the OVR is used in some way in just about every decision making process within the mode. The depth chart sorts players based on OVR, higher OVR players ask for more money in free agency or when re-signing and require and receive more value in trade offerings, the list goes on and on. It is also a HUGE part of how AI decision making plays out which is why I believe team management has always been somewhat of a mess within CFM.So basically, the mechanic you have in CFM that is used not only to give the user a quick snapshot of a players value (which in turn can greatly affect the average users decision making) but to also heavily dictate the decision making of AI controlled teams is this:And therein lies the rub.A common sentiment I've seen and heard over the years is to just get rid of it, which makes sense I mean if it doesn't matter then why have it, right?Not exactly. Even if you get rid of the OVR (which will never happen as it is too far ingrained as part of Madden's culture) it would likely only be on the front end and would still be likely controlling the same things and working the same way under the hood as it is now. This doesn't really solve anything and probably ends up creating more issues and inconveniences for users than it solves. The solution should be to take what by their own words does nothing and doesn't matter and turn it into something that that does both which is what I'm going to try and outline here.The idea here is take the OVR rating and change it from something that really only gives a snapshot of his ability as a player into something used to identify and somewhat quantify his value to an organization. The goal is also to transform the OVR rating into something that can serve a variety of purposes within CFM and (ideally) adapt to the situation and not only help inform users of what would be smarter decisions over the course of their franchise but also give the AI more tools to be able to make both smarter and more realistic decisions based on those situations.This is an obvious one. As players get older it's becomes more and more apparent that their days are becoming numbered. Teams are always looking to get younger and when put in a situation where they can get close to the same output out of a player they will almost always choose the younger and likely cheaper player. Obviously this isn't always the case and there are certain situations where a veteran player is valued much more than a younger player. You typically see this when teams are looking for a quick replacement or at a position where there is no veteran presence. It's largely a circumstance thing and it's something the game should attempt to reflect. Rebuilding teams will value youth while teams in more of a win-now mode will tend to value known commodities and will take more chances with veteran players while trying to make a run.The age old way the overall has been formulated and would still be part of the equation. This part would be based on a players perceived ability. I've talked at length about how I feel like there should be a knowledge system when it came to a players ability meaning that the more time a player played/practiced and spent time in the league the more certain you would become about his ability over that time. Teams won't always simply take a player who is better on the field and making this just a portion of the overall rather than pretty much the whole thing would help create more dynamic situations.This is the one factor that I really want to see involved into overall calculation. Having it be on the surface is something I really dislike and it isn't realistic at all. But the idea here is that the better a players potential, the more positive impact it would have on their overall. This gives more value to players who are likely to progress better rather than treating them the same as other players whose careers are going nowhere. MVP 2005 did this and it's something that I think would fit very well into Madden. This would be something that after a few seasons or once a player reached his "peak" would stop factoring into his overall because what he could become will have already been realized and known at that point. If potential or the DEV trait transitioned into a regression trait then you could have that factor into the overall in the same way where players who regress slower would be more valuable while the ones that drop off faster are less valuable.This is something Madden tried to do and I'm not really sure why they didn't continue to develop it but production should be a major factor into a players overall. If a 75 QB throws for 50 TD's and 5000 yards, the rest of the league should treat him more like a QB in the 90's than still a 75. In Madden however, that player could go from having a record breaking season to a third string QB because he's simply always viewed as that 75 OVR QB. The off-season hits and the AI sees 75 and says "we need to upgrade" so they draft a QB first round or he hits free agency and he gets signed to a measly contract to be backup for an 80 QB who threw 20 interceptions last season simply because 80>75. In reality, that QB should be aiming for a monster contract and should be treated like one.This is the factor that would likely have the biggest chance of causing problems within CFM simply because of the type of situation I outlined before. You could take what amounts to a 75 QB, have a couple great seasons and then deal him for significantly better capital whether it be in the form of better players who haven't produced for CPU teams or draft picks. When you look at it, it's not really that unrealistic and ideally the other factors would play enough of a role where they'd be able to mitigate being able to fleece the CPU but ultimately I think this would pose the biggest problem in user leagues that weren't completely full. Ironically though I think this type of thing could also thrive in 32-man leagues where trades would become a little bit more of a chess match between owners and unknown when it came to negotiating.The main thing here though is to treat players like how they would (and should) be perceived under real life circumstances. If an 80 OLB get 20 sacks in a contract year he should be asking for Von Miller or top OLB money, not simply 80 OVR money. That's something CFM really misses on and part of what plays a huge role in it feeling so lifeless. Some people might scoff at the fact that an 80 overall player is asking for 99 OVR money but to me that's the type of thing that would make CFM and especially team management more interesting.One thing Madden 07 did that was really cool was there was periods in the offseason where the game would evaluate bad contract situations for your team and present you with the option to cut them during the offseason to save cap. Like a lot of things back then, it didn't exactly work great but it was a really good base to be built on moving forward. Having bad contracts lower a players overall would not only help users rid themselves of players with potential to create frustrating cap issues but also help the AI make more intelligent decisions when it comes to the cap simply by not valuing those players as much as they normally would. This is also something that would be best if it were cross-referenced with production and age to make it even more effective for identifying players that aren't performing in line with the money they're making or are making vastly more than other players at their age.This is another thing CFM has tried to do but again seemed like it was never really fleshed out in a way where it really affected anything. This would act pretty much the same as it does now where players that fit schemes would have their overall boosted and players that didn't would have their overall reduced. IMO the entire scheme system needs to be tweaked and refined to be more coherent and useful but working with what's there this would factor mostly into 3-4, 4-3 situations more than anything and wouldn't have as big of an effect on overall as the others I've already mentioned.I wanted to include this here but admittedly it's something that would probably just work better on it's own as a part of a morale mechanic than being included here. It would be nice and I think pretty cool to have it play into this but the idea I have in my head would make things more complicated than they needed to be and would likely cause a good amount of confusion for average users. Basically my thought was players with negative morale would have a lower OVR when it came to transactions but their OVR when it came to the depth chart wouldn't be affected. So say you're trying to trade this player, other teams would value you him less because of his morale issues and the fact that they'd know you're trying to unload him and at no advantage in negotiations. This would really be the only application where the OVR changing would actually make sense though and even then having different OVR's between transactions and depth charts would be very confusing. Other ideas I had would include players with higher morale being open to taking a "hometown discount" but that doesn't really work in the sense of changing OVR and like I said it's something that would work much better independently of this as it's own mechanic.This is another minor one that I think falls more in line with potential and could be lumped with that as perceived potential. Players who are drafted higher get many more chances in the league than players who go late or undrafted. You see guys all the time who are drafted high get chance after chance with teams despite proving they're nothing more than a draft bust simply because teams think they're the ones that can finally tap into his potential. Not really necessary though, just an additional thought.One key thing here I think is keeping the amount of factors to a minimum and keeping it more on the simple side. I think the six factors I listed are just about right and wouldn't risk there being "too many ingredients in the kitchen" feeling or make anything overly complicated. Undoubtedly there'd be some growing pains with this system but the intent here isn't to create something that works flawlessly out of the gate because I think that's always an unrealistic expectation, it's to create something that has a widespread impact throughout the mode that could continue to grow and improve upon that impact as it became more refined. Another key here is that this isn't an all encompassing fix that will suddenly make the AI treat their rosters realisticly, it would only really help in making the decisions they made to be "smarter." Until is something is done to control the logic and frequency behind the moves the AI makes the chaotic nature to their roster management will continue to occur.From a user standpoint this would aim to benefit everyone from the casual to the hardcore. For the casual gamer it would broaden the amount of useful information that is taken into account when making roster management decisions while still presenting it in a simplistic, easy to understand manner. So before where as they might be looking at keeping an 80 versus a 78 and instinctevly taking the 80, they will still be presented with the same kind of decision but with more critical information taken into account for them. Let's say the 80 is an aging corner coming off a huge contract while the 78 is an undrafted gem with good potential. Under the current system it'd be 80 vs. 78 and that might be that however with the other factors taken into account maybe the 80 is now looked at as a 75 because he is old, wants more money than he is worth, and is dwindling ability wise. While on the other side the 78 is looked at as an 80 because he's younger, cheaper, and has a higher ceiling. So it's a situation where the user could use the exact same process and logic in their decision making but end up making a "smarter" move simply based on how relevant information was presented to them.For the hardcore user it lays the ground work for much smarter and more realistic roster management from the AI. In User leagues it opens up a new dynamic when it comes to players and how they're perceived and looked at in your league. No longer could a user get away with throwing for 5000 yards with a 70 QB and not have to pay them. Free agent gems and busts and trades would also become more dynamic and intriguing between users. Looking into the future it could also be used as a base to create unique GM personalities if they were ever to be implemented. Each GM could have their own unique formula similar to schemes where they value players differently based on the factors as well as the teams outlook for a given season. Maybe for one GM age isn't as much of an issue so a player that's older isn't devalued as much to their team like he would for a team with a GM who values raw potential over everything.

Madden Franchise Mode: It's Time to Be Classic



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