Jason Kander is an army veteran, former secretary of state for Missouri, and founder of the voting rights advocacy group Let America Vote. In this episode, Daniella and Ed sit down with Kander to discuss his new book, Outside the Wire: Ten Lessons I’ve Learned in Everyday Courage, and his position as a progressive in a red state. Daniella breaks down the political ad that brought Kander into the national consciousness—or, at least, into her consciousness—and Ed laments the foregone fate of his beloved Detroit Lions. Finally, our hosts digest Nike’s new ad campaign featuring Colin Kaepernick.

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Daniella Gibbs Legér is the senior vice president for Communications and Strategy at the Center for American Progress. Ed Chung is the vice president for Criminal Justice Reform at the Center. Kyle Epstein is the senior media coordinator at the Center.