Alessandro Meluzzi is an Italian psychiatrist, writer, politician, and academic. Last week we posted remarks by Professor Meluzzi about the role that ritual cannibalism played in the murder of Pamela Mastropietro, who was allegedly killed and dismembered by Innocent Oseghale, a Nigerian immigrant who had remained in the country after his residence permit expired. Three other Nigerian immigrants have also been arrested in connection with the case.

In the following video Prof. Meluzzi explains in more detail the horrific practices of the Nigerian mafias, which have now taken over some of the lower-level criminal functions of the traditional mafias in Italy.

The segment below aired on Radio Padania Libera, the official radio station of the Lega Nord, on February 16, 2018. Many thanks to Elle Bowlly for the translation, and to Vlad Tepes for the subtitling:

Video transcript:

00:14 We should now be in connection with Prof. Alessandro Meluzzi,

00:18 doctor, psychiatrist and criminologist. —Good morning to you. —Good morning, Prof. Meluzzi.

00:21 Good morning. —We’ve mentioned you a lot these last few days (also in press reviews) since you

00:26 were one of the first to highlight a particular aspect that emerged out of the Pamela Mastropietro

00:32 case in Macerata. Most recently, I saw you last evening on Matrix (Canale 5) at Nicola Porro’s;

00:39 you were able to specify a few things… and also in a long interview that we read in

00:44 our press reviews these last few days (interview last week with Luigi Chiarello from italiaoggi).

00:48 Well, I’m going to do a very short daily press review of this case. Then I’ll leave the word

00:54 to you, as there are lots of aspects to highlight. I believe they also have

00:58 a lot to do with a political type of discussion,

01:01 in a broad sense. Not partisan. Political in a broad sense. —In a general sense. In a noble sense.

01:06 Exactly. —You also tried to frame it in these terms.

01:10 That is: civil awareness that lies at the base of a political discussion.

01:14 One that is much due from us citizens. If not, we’ll keep on wandering through sterile policies.

01:21 Now, onto a few news reports and what they were able to gather so far. A new hypothesis

01:25 is emerging: Pamela Mastropietro was raped before being

01:29 stabbed twice in the liver while her heart was still beating.

01:33 Today… —Yes. —some newspapers published what should be the second autopsy which seems

01:40 to leave no doubt as to the girl being murdered before being dismembered and chopped up.

01:46 Yes. On this there seem to be certainties. —Also on the dismemberment: the epithelial and

01:49 subcutaneous tissues of the torso were removed and not found in the suitcases.

01:54 Liters of bleach were used to rinse the body.

02:00 This was broadly acknowledged, I think. Parts of the neck are missing (probably to hide the signs

02:09 of strangulation. —And the pubis. —And the epithelial tissue of the genitals, anal apparatus;

02:16 the breasts and mons pubis were mutilated. This leads us to think the victim was

02:23 sexually assaulted. The medical examiners noted that she was probably hit in the head with

02:32 a blunt object (as she had an ecchymosis on her temple). Or she was strangled,

02:37 then to be finished off by stabbing. Today, Pamela’s mother gave a statement

02:43 to “Il Tempo” (daily Roman newspaper) saying: “They deceived her into going into that house.

02:47 They raped her and tried to get her into prostitution. She rebelled and they killed her.

02:51 My daughter didn’t used to inject. Perhaps that Nigerian man asked her to buy the syringe

02:55 from the pharmacy. She hated syringes.” In the autopsy they talk about an induced needle mark

02:59 on the left hand. In relation to the grimmest aspects

03:05 of this girl’s end, that’s all. —Yes. The criminological facts.

03:13 From a criminological standpoint… You have been and still are a consultant

03:16 for many public prosecutors’ offices… Yes.

03:19 …so this is also your line of work. I’ll ask you: what does this type of crime scene tell us?

03:24 Alas, it tells of a scene that isn’t exceptional,

03:27 but ordinary within the world where it played out.

03:30 The fact that a young girl enters into an apartment with four Nigerian dealers and gets raped…

03:36 who is rendered unconscious for resisting and then cut into pieces is not the exception,

03:42 but the rule in this world. You don’t even need to look at it

03:45 from a criminological or investigative standpoint but simply from a

03:49 cultural anthropological standpoint. Regarding the world which generated this thing to begin with.

03:56 You see, if you go to Benin City or Lagos, or if you look at

03:59 the world of exploitation of Nigerian underage prostitution

04:02 here in Italy, or the world of Black Axe…which is one of

04:05 the main progenitors of the Nigerian mafia, together with

04:08 other groups with which it contends over the control of territory for the dealing of hard drugs/

04:14 prostitution/extortions/online scams and other matters in which the Nigerian mafia excels…

04:20 well, it would be surprising if things WEREN’T this way.

04:24 I mean, I would be astonished if a girl like her entered a house

04:28 with four dealers of that nature and she came out alive. I’d be making an argument ad absurdum,

04:35 therefore I’m not surprised at all by what happened and by the things that the mother described.

04:40 It seems very realistic to me. Very credible. —Just a little quick press review: there’s

04:44 an interview on Libero today with the Carabinieri General Antonio Basilicata

04:48 (head of the Anti-Mafia Investigation Directorate and prevention department).

04:53 He basically says two things: “We’ve known the Nigerian mafia for years in Italy.

04:59 It’s a mafia in which the mystical-religious component is exalted;

05:02 forms of violence are used in relation to rituals (a sort of

05:06 partnership obligation between the families of origin and the people they manage here in Italy) and

05:10 one example is that of prostitutes. Mystical/ritual arguments are used to gain their obedience”.

05:16 However, General Basilicata clarified that they [Nigerians]

05:19 do all this among themselves, and that he doesn’t

05:22 believe Pamela’s case to be an exception to that, and that the Nigerian mafia goes above and beyond

05:26 to avoid being exposed. Someone here said: why did they leave

05:29 the two suitcases containing the body there,

05:32 as if to have it be purposefully found? Almost…

05:35 I won’t say “exhibited”, but with a great chance for them to be

05:38 discovered. —You should ask General Basilicata this, since he’s paid by taxpayers to do just that.

05:43 Exactly. —I mean, I’m astonished at the fact that

05:46 a Carabinieri General of the DIA could think that

05:49 four Nigerian heroine dealers in Macerata can be self-employed and not be part of an organization.

05:57 It would be like saying that someone could be an usurer in Corleone during the time of Totò Riina

06:01 without being affiliated with the mafia. It would be called

06:04 “a contradiction in terms” in judicial logic.

06:07 Therefore, I think there are no doubts as to the relationship among these four subjects.

06:12 In regards to their unconventional conduct and their murdering

06:15 a white woman…well, it doesn’t seem to

06:18 be all that that uncommon or strange to me. Particularly if you take a look at the Nigerian world

06:22 from which they come. This may just be a situation that

06:25 got out of hand (no disrespect to General Basilicata)..

06:28 I don’t think that just being white in Italy is enough to shield you

06:32 from the violence of the Nigerian mafia, just because

06:35 up until now they have killed blacks only. I’ve got to say, if you look at what’s

06:42 happening in places like Castel Volturno where the Nigerian mafia has defeated the Camorra by now

06:47 in a war between mafias. They run the gang-mastering of whites and blacks. This differs

06:51 from the claims of General Basilicata. I would therefore enlarge the investigative zoom,

06:56 and I’d also look at new and terrible horizons

07:00 concerning this criminal organization, which even in Calabria,

07:04 Sicily and the countryside is now replacing

07:08 the national mafias. Not just because the national mafias

07:12 delegated the dirtiest jobs to them (prostitution,

07:15 drug retailing, territorial control, extortions and online scams),

07:19 but also because this type of low-level activity doesn’t

07:24 interest them [national mafias] any longer. So we need to prepare for a thorough substitution

07:29 of the old mafia activities with new ones in which the Nigerian mafia will have a leading role.

07:34 I’m sorry to be a prophet of doom. I hope that General Basilicata

07:38 is attentive and active enough to defend the Italian nation

07:42 from a real threat to our national security. —Simona Pletto from Libero asked

07:50 the General: “Are there any accounts of tribal ceremonies/episodes of cannibalism behind the crimes

07:56 and murders in Italy?”, “Absolutely not” he replied;

08:00 “I feel like I can rule out that this is practiced in

08:03 our country. There isn’t any one investigation in this direction.”

08:06 —Very well, then. We are very much reassured by

08:09 General Basilicata who tells us that acts of cannibalism aren’t taking place in Italy. The members

08:14 of Black Axe only practice them when they’re in Nigeria, evidently. When they get to Italy

08:18 they become much more polite and they cease this practice.

08:21 We are joyous about this. I’d still be more worried

08:24 than General Basilicata. —These past days you also said… You previously referenced Castel Volturno

08:30 as an example saying that a war between mafias took place and that the Nigerian mafia won;

08:34 what do you mean? —Yes. Militarily. —What do you mean?

08:38 I mean that they replaced the local mafia/Camorra/Casalesi by now

08:42 (which were heavily weakened by the sacrosanct police activities). So the Nigerian mafia now,

08:47 when they get to Italy, get the territory. Even the agricultural one. I’d like to talk about

08:50 an awesome proceeding by a greatly skilled Turinese magistrate,

08:54 Dr. Stefano Castellani (unintelligible) that led to the sentencing of 40 members of the

08:59 Nigerian mafia in Turin. —In 2000 and… —Not in Castel Volturno. For mafia-related activities.

09:04 For crimes of mafia associations. So take a look at

09:07 the acts of that process. General Basilicata should also

09:10 read them carefully. Perhaps he could find some useful notations for his line of work.

09:17 If I’m not mistaken, in July of 2016 the court of Palermo also… always in relation to the Black Axe

09:24 confraternity…(which isn’t the only one in Italy, there are many). —No, it’s just one of them.

09:29 These are para-masonic confraternities like “Skull and Bones”, which are born in the

09:32 university spheres of Lagos and Benin City. —Two years ago the Palermo court

09:36 also issued sentences to some Nigerian citizens

09:39 for various crimes with aggravating mafia circumstances. —Yes. Certainly. —The same in Brescia

09:46 in 2007. We’re talking about 11 years ago. Nigerian groups were sentenced for associations with the

09:52 mafia. Article 416-bis. —Exactly. —So let’s just say that although the General reassures us,

09:59 the reality is quite different. —Well, we’re very reassured by the General’s confidence. Let’s just

10:04 hope that this verbal confidence will also translate into effective investigative facts.

10:08 We’ll have to see in the upcoming months. —There’s a question

10:11 that sometimes comes up (as it did last evening on Matrix):

10:14 why was Pamela Mastropietro dissected in that manner but then

10:17 placed on a busy road so that she would be found?

10:20 Look, this is hard to say. It could simply be because the one carrying the suitcases became

10:25 concerned after seeing some strange movements or because they were afraid of a possible checkpoint

10:30 a meter away. Getting rid of an exhibit of this nature right away

10:33 can just be a purely random act linked to

10:36 worry, fear or any other reason. So I wouldn’t build any

10:40 relevant theories on that. It seems to me to be very

10:43 fascinating that he left her there so that she be discovered and so that his clan would be damaged.

10:47 Sounds a bit like an imaginative conspiracy theory. —Yes. Also, they weren’t trying to send a

10:51 message to someone, as was theorized. —It could also be. But

10:54 the investigations will have to tell us. This actually

10:58 requires effective investigative activity. Because we would need to know precisely

11:02 to which net these four dealers belonged, to whom they wanted

11:05 to send the message, what internal war is currently

11:08 going on among clans…I’d rather look into another shocking matter,

11:12 which is no longer being talked about.

11:15 Even more shocking than this other one: 26 underage Nigerian girls who arrived dead by suffocation

11:21 in the Salerno port on board of one of these slave ships,

11:25 and for which no one was able to give an explanation.

11:28 Were they killed because a choice wasn’t made about which clan they should be assigned to for

11:31 prostitution? What happened? Was it a settling of scores? I’d ask the Salerno prosecutor to please

11:37 tell us which conclusions the investigations came to.

11:40 And also about the findings of forensic pathology.

11:43 Because a resounding silence has dropped over this terrible event.

11:47 This is another important point.

11:50 I’ll ask you about the four men arrested in Macerata shortly, but first:

11:55 I was struck by one of your observations.

12:00 A bunch of observations you made on the fact that autopsies show that certain parts of the cadaver

12:04 are missing (as we previously mentioned).

12:07 It happens habitually in the anatomical-pathological activities of the

12:11 Nigerian mafia. It happens habitually. They’re also people who come from a pastoral background

12:16 where you learn to skin and slit the throat of a baby goat at five years old and upwards.

12:22 I’d say that there’s a skillfulness in this that we don’t possess. Not even with medical examiners.

12:26 Today on Libero there’s a Q&A between Vittorio Feltri and the head of the general management

12:35 of the National Transplant Center, and Dr. Costa, who

12:39 scolded Feltri for reporting that this girl’s heart

12:46 had been removed. I actually don’t know if the investigations… —I don’t know whether the heart was

12:53 removed or not. I doubt that it was removed for transplant purposes. —Of course.

12:58 This usually just happens in specialized Middle Eastern and also Turkish clinics (apparently).

13:02 But this is a different type of activity. —But you also said you’re not surprised about the heart…

13:07 the fact that it was… —Yes, the heart is systematically eaten

13:10 in these rites. Just think about the child-soldiers

13:13 in the Sierra Leonean and Liberian tribal wars, where eating the heart of the first woman

13:18 they murder is an initiation rite in which you obtain health, courage and invincibility.

13:23 This is the rule, not the exception. —I don’t have the slightest idea

13:26 whether the heart is there or not, but I think it’s irrelevant to this investigation.

13:30 In an interview with italiaoggi you also quoted the words

13:33 of the Nigerian President, which almost no one in the media

13:37 reported on in a clear manner. —Yes, the Nigerian President said: Italians and Europeans,

13:41 be careful, because you are importing the worst of criminality from

13:44 my country. The President of Nigeria said this.

13:47 This might probably be the reason why the consulate of Nigeria still hasn’t sued me yet… —In light…

13:51 —for giving Nigeria bad press. But I think the first one to do that was the federal president

13:55 of that very country. —You said: “In light of this, the anti-mafia professionals stay quiet.

14:01 From Libera to Saviano.” —Look, I don’t know. I’m just stunned by the fact that we’ve seen

14:05 great efficiency coming from characters like Saviano. Who stays with his eight bodyguards

14:09 in his penthouse in New York paid for by the taxpayers. While

14:13 the great anti-mafia prophets like my very friend and teacher Gian Carlo Caselli, or Don Ciotti,

14:17 or Libera were so effective in combatting the national mafias, they seem to be a bit quiet

14:25 on the subject of the Nigerian mafia. As if talking about it would be an offense

14:29 to some politically correct idea of anti-racism, or as if there

14:32 were taboos. But look, if the doctor fears medicating the wound to avoid inflicting pain, the

14:35 wound just gets worse. If we don’t face reality we will neither be able to cure nor prevent

14:39 this disease. This PLAGUE that is invading us, so… —You’re very measured.

14:42 I was greatly struck by your interview with

14:45 italiaoggi where you say: I fear a stacking up of a phenomenon of

14:49 mass criminality which even puts national

14:53 and democratic coexistence at risk. —Of course. I’d go even further:

14:57 it also puts national sovereignty

15:00 and democratic security at risk. Of course. —Why…

15:03 As democratic security also relies on there being

15:06 a pact of mutual respect and defense between the State and the citizens. If the citizens feel like

15:10 they’ve completely lost their security, then episodes of madness

15:14 like the Macerata one, of this Traini guy

15:17 (or whatshisdamnedname), or what happened in Egna[?] where someone shot at a migrant hostel…

15:22 Unfortunately, episodes such as these will become

15:25 increasingly less uncommon. Because people go mad.

15:28 They go mad because of fear. Therefore, if the state

15:31 loses control over its territory/over legality, then

15:34 the democratic principle on which a constitutional state is founded is discovered to be missing.

15:38 This is one of the huge issues we need to look at. I’m aware that the things I’m saying sound very

15:43 discomfiting in some places (i.e. magistrate, Ministry of Interior and prefectures) because it

15:48 may seem like I’m trying to invoke fear. But listen, the only way to prevent these types of cancers

15:53 is early diagnosis and prevention. If this isn’t done, the country dies.

15:57 You also merely stuck to the numbers for practical and

16:00 empirical purposes. —Oh sure, you just need to look at the numbers. —You said: “we’re in front of

16:05 massive numbers. It’s not like 650,000 immigrants from Africa or Nigeria have no effects on a

16:10 country,” there is an impact. —Do you think 650,000 transferred people

16:15 without jobs, nor placements, sustained

16:19 financially by cooperatives, without vision, all males, all young and without families don’t

16:26 represent an explosive problem? Even a child would know; you don’t need an old medical examiner,

16:31 psychiatrist and criminologist to say it. A 12-year-old would get it.

16:35 Importing and parking half a million young males inside

16:39 semi-capacious structures (which cost the taxpayers €40 a day, of which €5 is for small expenses,

16:45 plus to charge their cellphones)… the moment this money runs out, they will explode like a bomb.

16:51 Even if the money doesn’t run out, I don’t get how they can be managed in the next ten years.

16:56 I want to understand what kind of incorporation they’re talking about when Italy’s afflicted by

17:00 extensive unemployment, and above all when the type of work

17:03 these people could do simply doesn’t exist, because

17:06 everything is fully automated by now, agriculture included. So what the HELL are we talking about?

17:11 In this story… Prof. Meluzzi, I’ll just steal a little more of your time. —No problem, my friend,

17:17 I’m glad! —Yesterday I talked about this one character with Carlo Cambi

17:21 who had written about him in the daily newspaper La Verità.

17:24 There’s this guy called Lucky Awelima who is the third one they arrested in relation to the case.

17:30 His journey was quite peculiar: he arrived in Sicily by boat halfway through the year 2016.

17:35 He declares himself politically persecuted, when he isn’t. —Like all these folks. Of course.

17:39 He isn’t. He does everything he can to get to Macerata where he is known by two nicknames:

17:43 “Lucky 10” among dealers, and “Isha Boy” among prostitutes.

17:47 He requests political asylum, and the Ancona court

17:51 rejects it. He appeals and stays here. At a certain point he’s hosted by another Nigerian man,

17:58 who’s been in Macerata for thirty years and who treats him with great favor.

18:01 This man is Daniel Chibunna Amanze,

18:04 and he is the legal representative of one of the three

18:07 non-profit organizations that operate in Macerata.

18:10 In this case: ACSIM (Immigrant Service Center Marche Association). The chief of ACSIM goes above

18:17 and beyond to best arrange for this subject who had it set in his mind to get to Macerata.

18:25 He must be a respectable man, to use a better term. —He finds him a luxury accommodation

18:31 at a four-star hotel, basically. —Yes, four stars.

18:35 At this point he doesn’t ever get caught for simple drug dealing,

18:40 although he oversees drug trafficking and prostitution. So I wonder,

18:44 how is it that this NPO… (which by the way

18:47 is at the center of an investigation, as there is €46 million

18:50 that the Agency of Revenue has no accounting for,

18:53 and which these three NPOs handle. Among which this particular NPO)…

18:56 how is it that this NPO gives accommodation

18:59 to a fellow of this kind who very much appears to be a mobster?

19:03 Look, you should redirect this question

19:06 to General Basilicata. This should be your job. To comprehend why these things go on you should ask

19:12 the Guardia di Finanza (who’s investigating these unaccounted €46M), you should ask the head of

19:19 the Italian secret service, the Anti-Mafia Investigation Directorate, etc.,

19:23 to understand why this is going on.

19:26 Very odd for you to ask me about it. —No, exactly. —Because it should be

19:30 state officers answering for this. —I can just tell you

19:33 that investigations in this field are extremely hard, because the police station doesn’t even have

19:37 one translator who is able to intercept any of the 26 Nigerian dialects with which they communicate

19:41 among themselves. This is the real problem. But you should ask

19:45 General Basilicata and the Guardia di Finanza, as

19:48 they’re paid for this very purpose. —From simply researching among very open sources online, I was

19:57 impressed by how numerous ritual murders are in African nations

20:00 (as you know very well and have explained).

20:03 The confraternities like Black Axe… —Sure. The famous Nigerian rituals. You just have to google

20:08 “killing ritual Nigeria” and click on any page to see thousands of terrifying images. Some of which

20:14 I published, only to be accused by Twitter and Facebook

20:18 of publishing pictures that incite racial hatred.

20:21 Anyone can look into it on their own. —On this, I relay

20:25 my last question for you. On this note and on the

20:29 number issue (as they have their importance): I believe welcoming hundreds of thousands of people…

20:34 Millions are on their way, I guarantee you.

20:37 I believe it doesn’t mean that you’re welcoming people only,

20:40 but also their mindsets, their cultures and their customs. —Even a moron would understand this.

20:45 Exactly! —Should we expect this since it’s very common over there… I mean even prominent people

20:52 commission ritual murders there. Politicians, entrepreneurs, etc. Even heads of state sometimes.

20:59 Yes, yes, for sure. [Jean-Bedel] Bokassa used to keep pieces of his murdered enemies in his fridge

21:04 and would eat parts of them from time to time. —In short: are we going to find out that these

21:07 horrific customs have settled in our midst? What would General Basilicata say?

21:10 You’re like [Gigi] Marzullo, posing a question and answering it

21:13 yourself. It’s obvious that we’re going to find them in our midst! You think they’re just going

21:17 to stay outside our door? Perhaps the solution is the one [Marco] Minniti proposed,

21:20 saying that Italians need be prepared to move to Africa

21:23 so that we may decongest our situation just a bit. Maybe we’ll go there

21:27 not as colonizers, but probably as slaves at this point. So let’s see.

21:31 Redirect this question to Minister Minniti, who wants Italians

21:34 to emigrate to Africa to help a little to decongest the country demographically.

21:37 Or to [Emma] Bonino, or to her friend Soros. The question should be redirected to them, not to us.

21:42 We who just want for us, our kids and our grandkids to survive. At least in same the civilization

21:46 in which we were born and raised. May God protect us and

21:49 may He protect Italy. —Well, thank you, professor.