Quote: ZiggyD Originally Posted by



It's rare that I get a game where I don't know why I lost, especially PvT. But this one is a bit of a puzzle.



I suspect I just traded poorly but it felt like a really close game.



I know that I didn't get Thermal lance and micro'd my Colossus poorly but perhaps you guys may be able to point out if there are any other explanations for why this game ended the way it did.



Thanks in advance! Heya! Love the thread, I'll be keeping an eye out for reps that I may be able to help out with.It's rare that I get a game where I don't know why I lost, especially PvT. But this one is a bit of a puzzle.I suspect I just traded poorly but it felt like a really close game.I know that I didn't get Thermal lance and micro'd my Colossus poorly but perhaps you guys may be able to point out if there are any other explanations for why this game ended the way it did.Thanks in advance! Game Summary

He opens with one rax expand into 4rax, taking his extra gas early (I think this is a bad build order by him, but that's not important). You respond with a 1gate pressure into your own expand. The pressure doesn't do significant damage, and you both move on to the mid-game.

He snipes your observer and moves out at around 10:30. At the same time, you drop a few zealots into his main, killing a couple of scvs, delaying buildings, delaying mining time, and being annoying in general. He snipes your nexus and runs away. You double expand. He becomes defensive and techs up to medivacs (but I don't think he ended up building any)

He moves out again at 13:30. He snipes the nexus again and runs away. You chase him all the way home and attack his natural. He manages to hold, but loses half of his scvs in the process. You retake your natural.

He attacks again at 17:00. He forces a cancel of your natural, then trades his army for some of yours and some probes and does some damage. You eventually hold it off.

He immediately attacks again at 19:00, bringing 19 scvs. You manage to hold, and now he has 15 scvs.

He ralleys in as many units as he can and hits you again at 21:00. He manages to pretty much kill everything, and is a little bad mannered. You gg and leave (props to you for this, you're a good player).



Game Analysis and Tips

It was a very close game, but as you recognised yourself, you lost because he traded better than you. You lost a lot more units and nexi than you should have because he caught your army out of position multiple times. Almost everything else was good, but your main problem was positioning.





First issue: scouting. You did a good response to his 1rax expand, but it was a blind response. You scouted that he had a barracks and a supply depo. For all you know, he could have been going double starport banshees, or he could have been killing his own CC.







When you scout, you don't want to be fighting scvs. You can harass the scv building the barracks, but if the barracks is about to complete, or if he pulls another scv to engage the probe, you don't want to fight. Your main purpose is to scout, not to kill scvs. So resist the temptation to harass and use your probe to scout around the base.



Now, when you scout, you want to check the whole base, incase there is a semi-hidden barracks. But the main thing you want to see is gas.

0 gas: 1 rax expand, or scv marine all in

Most of the time it will be a 1rax expand.

If you check back later and see a tonne of marines and no CC, you should start getting worried and try to get units out to defend as soon as possible. If you check back and see a CC, then you can breathe a sigh of relief and play greedy.

1 gas: 2rax pressure into expand, or possibly a 1-1-1.

If you check back later and see a bunker at the ramp, it's probably going to be a 1-1-1 or a marine tank all in. If you check back later and see a marauder or two, or a tech lab on the rax, then it's almost definitely going to be a 2rax pressure into expand.

2 gas: You're most likely versing someone insane. Cloaked banshees, every sort of tech you can imagine will be available to the terran. Or, he might be playing miind games and playing standard.



Your opponent tried to play mind games with you by building a refinery without mining from it, and building a CC after your probe left. Fortunately, or unfortunately, I'm not sure which, you didn't scout his refinery. You did a good response to it, but it was blind, and next time you should scout before you make the decision to expand off one gateway.









You shouldn't have attacked here, two zealots and a stalker isn't enough to break a bunker, especially if it's repaired. I find that terrans who 1rax expand have their bunker up in time no matter what I try, so I build the nexus before any units.







You do good damage here. But you are over-microing your units, and your money is building up, and you don't spot the attack headed your way on the minimap. The fact that your harass has been going on for 20 seconds and his army hasn't returned to deal with the zealots should also tip you off that he is about to attack you.







His attack catches you by surprise. Your army is out of position. When you aren't attacking, you should have your army positioned defensively. In this case, you should have spread your army in a concave, zealots in front. Because they were out of position, he picks off a sentry and two zealots before the fight even begins. You lose the nexus, which puts you behind.



A thing to consider in situations like this is a counter attack. He sacrificed his army to deal economic damage, but doesn't do much damage to your army. So your army is way stronger than his (and half of his units were pretty much stimmed to death). You probably could have killed a lot of scvs or even the CC if you counter attacked with a proxy pylon.



However, the double expand you did was also a good option. I like that







He moves out again, and this time you are paying attention and see it moving out past the watchtower. Your army was in a good position, but you decided to move it to the right side of your natural. He attacks the left side, and your army is out of position to defend.



I think you needed an observer to be sure of which side he would attack.





In the future, you might want to consider putting an observer or a probe outside your base so you can spot the attacks, and prepare for them accordingly. Around where the green squares are.









Your zealots charge into the fray before the rest of your army arrives at his base. Let your army regroup before you push into his base. You really needed the sentries for guardian shield, and the collosus for damage.





This was a good move by you. Just saying





This is why you need to regroup and get into position before attacking. All your zealots attack into that small choke and die without the sentries' guardian shield. And your collosus ends up attacking a supply depo, which is never good. The 5 shots on the supply depo was enough to kill his entire army, since he didnt bother spreading his units. However, he rushes forward, snipes the collosus, and the rest of your army falls.







Out of position again. You couldn't afford to lose that nexus again.



He decides to engage your army there (not pictured) and yeah, as you mentioned, extended thermal lance for the collosus would have helped a lot.



From there, because you lost those two collosus, there wasn't really anything you could do to come back into the game. Marine marauder crushes protoss in small-middle sized armies.



In Summary

Your macro is good, you know how to make probes, take expansions, and tech up.

However, you didn't spot the attacks while he moved out, and hence your army wasn't in a good position when he attacked. Those engagements lost you the game.

To fix this:

- try having an observer or two around the main attack paths, or even a probe, so you get a notification when the probe dies.

- pre-spread and position your army defensively, so even if the attack catches you by surprise, you'll be able to deal with it without losing your nexus



Quick Comments Nemo: Awesome analysis ! ZiggyD: Fantastic analysis! See my comment below :) nirvAnA: fantastic! He opens with one rax expand into 4rax, taking his extra gas early (I think this is a bad build order by him, but that's not important). You respond with a 1gate pressure into your own expand. The pressure doesn't do significant damage, and you both move on to the mid-game.He snipes your observer and moves out at around 10:30. At the same time, you drop a few zealots into his main, killing a couple of scvs, delaying buildings, delaying mining time, and being annoying in general. He snipes your nexus and runs away. You double expand. He becomes defensive and techs up to medivacs (but I don't think he ended up building any)He moves out again at 13:30. He snipes the nexus again and runs away. You chase him all the way home and attack his natural. He manages to hold, but loses half of his scvs in the process. You retake your natural.He attacks again at 17:00. He forces a cancel of your natural, then trades his army for some of yours and some probes and does some damage. You eventually hold it off.He immediately attacks again at 19:00, bringing 19 scvs. You manage to hold, and now he has 15 scvs.He ralleys in as many units as he can and hits you again at 21:00. He manages to pretty much kill everything, and is a little bad mannered. You gg and leave (props to you for this, you're a good player).It was a very close game, but as you recognised yourself, you lost because he traded better than you. You lost a lot more units and nexi than you should have because he caught your army out of position multiple times. Almost everything else was good, but your main problem was positioning.First issue: scouting. You did a good response to his 1rax expand, but it was a blind response. You scouted that he had a barracks and a supply depo. For all you know, he could have been going double starport banshees, or he could have been killing his own CC.When you scout, you don't want to be fighting scvs. You can harass the scv building the barracks, but if the barracks is about to complete, or if he pulls another scv to engage the probe, you don't want to fight. Your main purpose is to scout, not to kill scvs. So resist the temptation to harass and use your probe to scout around the base.Now, when you scout, you want to check the whole base, incase there is a semi-hidden barracks. But the main thing you want to see is gas.: 1 rax expand, or scv marine all inMost of the time it will be a 1rax expand.If you check back later and see a tonne of marines and no CC, you should start getting worried and try to get units out to defend as soon as possible. If you check back and see a CC, then you can breathe a sigh of relief and play greedy.: 2rax pressure into expand, or possibly a 1-1-1.If you check back later and see a bunker at the ramp, it's probably going to be a 1-1-1 or a marine tank all in. If you check back later and see a marauder or two, or a tech lab on the rax, then it's almost definitely going to be a 2rax pressure into expand.: You're most likely versing someone insane. Cloaked banshees, every sort of tech you can imagine will be available to the terran. Or, he might be playing miind games and playing standard.Your opponent tried to play mind games with you by building a refinery without mining from it, and building a CC after your probe left. Fortunately, or unfortunately, I'm not sure which, you didn't scout his refinery. You did a good response to it, but it was blind, and next time you should scout before you make the decision to expand off one gateway.You shouldn't have attacked here, two zealots and a stalker isn't enough to break a bunker, especially if it's repaired. I find that terrans who 1rax expand have their bunker up in time no matter what I try, so I build the nexus before any units.You do good damage here. But you are over-microing your units, and your money is building up, and you don't spot the attack headed your way on the minimap. The fact that your harass has been going on for 20 seconds and his army hasn't returned to deal with the zealots should also tip you off that he is about to attack you.His attack catches you by surprise. Your army is out of position. When you aren't attacking, you should have your army positioned defensively. In this case, you should have spread your army in a concave, zealots in front. Because they were out of position, he picks off a sentry and two zealots before the fight even begins. You lose the nexus, which puts you behind.A thing to consider in situations like this is a counter attack. He sacrificed his army to deal economic damage, but doesn't do much damage to your army. So your army is way stronger than his (and half of his units were pretty much stimmed to death). You probably could have killed a lot of scvs or even the CC if you counter attacked with a proxy pylon.However, the double expand you did was also a good option. I like thatHe moves out again, and this time you are paying attention and see it moving out past the watchtower. Your army was in a good position, but you decided to move it to the right side of your natural. He attacks the left side, and your army is out of position to defend.I think you needed an observer to be sure of which side he would attack.In the future, you might want to consider putting an observer or a probe outside your base so you can spot the attacks, and prepare for them accordingly. Around where the green squares are.Your zealots charge into the fray before the rest of your army arrives at his base. Let your army regroup before you push into his base. You really needed the sentries for guardian shield, and the collosus for damage.This was a good move by you. Just sayingThis is why you need to regroup and get into position before attacking. All your zealots attack into that small choke and die without the sentries' guardian shield. And your collosus ends up attacking a supply depo, which is never good. The 5 shots on the supply depo was enough to kill his entire army, since he didnt bother spreading his units. However, he rushes forward, snipes the collosus, and the rest of your army falls.Out of position again. You couldn't afford to lose that nexus again.He decides to engage your army there (not pictured) and yeah, as you mentioned, extended thermal lance for the collosus would have helped a lot.From there, because you lost those two collosus, there wasn't really anything you could do to come back into the game. Marine marauder crushes protoss in small-middle sized armies.Your macro is good, you know how to make probes, take expansions, and tech up.However, you didn't spot the attacks while he moved out, and hence your army wasn't in a good position when he attacked. Those engagements lost you the game.To fix this:- try having an observer or two around the main attack paths, or even a probe, so you get a notification when the probe dies.- pre-spread and position your army defensively, so even if the attack catches you by surprise, you'll be able to deal with it without losing your nexus Last edited by xGKingdelete; Mon, 2nd-Jan-2012 at 4:52 PM .