Thomas Wolfe Auditorium renovation plans: 9 questions answered

Amanda Hall is not one to beat around the flaking ceiling in the Thomas Wolfe Auditorium.

"This ... place?" the Asheville resident said, using a quite colorful descriptor between "this" and "place." "It breaks your heart. You sit here and you watch whatever’s on that ceiling raining down on these symphony performers ... the acoustics in our seats up there are great, but this community deserves better. You know, I’m a taxpayer — a $100 million? Spend it, do it, fix it. Don’t do the half-way.”

Hall was in attendance the night of Jan. 15 for the big unveiling of plans for a boldly renovated Thomas Wolfe Auditorium, along with several hundred others who filled most of the floor seats. Like Hall, they were a passionate — and receptive — group, and that $100 million estimate did not dim their enthusiasm.

But Chris Corl, general manager of the Harrah's Cherokee Center-Asheville, which encompasses the auditorium, knows he's got a big job ahead to get all or at least most of the city's taxpayers as hyped as Hall. He'll also need to convince Asheville City Council, Buncombe County Board of Commissioners and, perhaps most importantly, the Buncombe County Tourism Development Authority to foot the bill. The TDA may have to hoist the lion's share of the financing.

The city of Asheville will have to take the planning lead on this, as it owns the building.

Mayor Esther Manheimer indicated at the event that she's supportive, and said she was "overwhelmed" at the turnout. She also noted the Wolfe renovation is "a project we have been talking about for decades," acknowledging that some in attendance have been part of that conversation for that long.

"We are quickly approaching the day that something has to happen," Manheimer said. "We're reaching a critical stage — some would say we've already reached that critical stage — in terms of what this infrastructure can handle and the need to re-up and make a significant investment in it, so it can continue to contribute to the vitality of this city and to enhance our city as Ashevillians here in our own town."

The facility has also long been a regional draw, she quickly added.

With that significance of the institution in mind, the Citizen Times posed nine questions about the proposal:

What does the $100 million proposal include?

Plans call for keeping "the bones" of the auditorium, which opened in 1940 and was last renovated in 1975.

The proposal would totally reconfigure and renovate the space, creating two balconies instead of one, a narrower but taller hall that will enhance acoustics and vastly improved load-in space, all while tripling the number of restrooms, food and beverage outlets, and the square footage of lobbies and common spaces.

More: Striking renovation plans for Thomas Wolfe Auditorium unveiled; cost could reach $100M

Seating would be 2,160 for concerts, but for smaller shows the balconies could be closed off, creating rooms of either 1,200 or 1,700 seats.

A new, striking facade would grace the outside, and better load-in areas will be created, as well as new green rooms for performers.

What did Steep Canyon Rangers have to say about all this?

More specifically, Woody Platt, guitarist and frontman for the Grammy-winning Steep Canyon Rangers, who was one of the panelist at the Jan. 15 unveiling event.

Founded in 2000, the band hails from Western North Carolina, and it has played local venues. It did play a show in the ExploreAsheville.com Arena last year, but the Wolfe?

Not so much.

Moderator Jessica Tomasin, studio manager of Echo Mountain recording studio, introduced Platt, noting the band tours all over.

"You've played here, right?" she said.

No,” Platt said, drawing laughter. “I was sitting here thinking to myself why not. I looked out and thought, 'Oh, because we always made the decision not to play here.'”

"Why?" Tomasin said.

Early on, Platt said, band members looked for local venues with a diverse audience that fit their style. They settled on The Orange Peel, holding one seated show and one standing, on separate days. That got to be exhausting.

"The Thomas Wolfe kept coming up in band discussions, and it continuously was shot down, based on fan experience and band experience,” Platt said. “So, I’m absolutely in favor of increasing the experience (for) the band from the stage back, and then from the band on the stage connecting with the audience. The designs look incredible to me.”

The Rangers travel the country and "see so many venues that have been refurbished, remodeled, brand new, state of the art venues." They break it down by major markets and secondary markets.

"I think Asheville has become a major market, but it doesn’t have a major venue, so people are going to the Peace Center (in Greenville, South Carolina)," Platt said. "That’s where they go. Or they go to the DPAC in Durham."

That's the Durham Performing Arts Center, a $53 million, 2,800-seat auditorium that opened in 2008. Asheville definitely can compete, he said.

"This room — making it shallower and narrower and a little more sloped — it could feel as good as those two rooms, and I think a lot of those shows would come to Asheville as opposed to going to Greenville,” Platt said. "I definitely think this is more of a major market in the eyes of people who are booking these touring acts, and not just music, but theater and other performances that tour.”

How would all this be paid for? It's complicated

Corl said he envisions seeking 60-70% of funding from the Buncombe County Tourism Development Authority, 5-10% each from the city of Asheville and Buncombe County, leaving the remaining 20% to be filled via philanthropy and donations.

The TDA collects the hotel room occupancy tax and then disburses grants for projects. It is using what it calls the Tourism Management & Investment Plan, or TMIP, which allows for funding projects over a longer time frame.

That yearlong plan will conclude this April, so the timing is fortuitous for the Wolfe proposal, which very likely would include a long-term debt obligation such as a 10- or 20-year bond issuance.

“I think consideration for this project fits very well within the planning process that’s been established,” said Stephanie Brown is president & CEO of Explore Asheville Convention & Visitors Bureau. It executes the marketing and sales programs under direction and approval of the TDA. She added that a key is to balance a wide spectrum of needs and opportunities.

As part of the TMIP process, the TDA's "projects team has been investigating how the TDA can support bond financing for very large projects,” Brown said.

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“Because we're at the beginning of our process, by the very nature of wanting to do more monumental things, we knew we needed to investigate how to do that," she said, adding that the TDA itself cannot issue debt. "But we’re optimistic that we could enter into an interlocal agreement with the city or the county to dedicate future occupancy tax revenue to the debt service of a bond or even more than one bond.”

That could provide key backing to the city and/or the county if those entities issued debt for the project.

The hotel occupancy tax is a solid, and growing, source of funding, but by state law its uses are limited. The TDA's product development fund uses 25% of the tax revenue for tourism-related projects, but the other 75% goes toward marketing the Asheville area.

More: Poll: Buncombe residents mixed on hotel tax spending, give high marks for community assets

Corl said, the TDA "has not given us any indication of how much they may be able to provide, as they are still wrapping up the Tourism Management & Investment Plan.

"Our hope is to be a top project target of theirs by the time the TMIP wraps up," Corl said. "In order to best understand what our 'ask' may be of the TDA or any governmental agency, we are first exploring philanthropic donations and corporate sponsorships. Hopefully by the summer we'll have an idea of what we can expect as a realistic number from private fundraising."

As far as the city issuing bonds, that would be a decision for the city manager and City Council, but Corl said that as the city owns the building, general obligation bonds could be in the mix. Most projects of a similar scale are for a 20-year time frame for debt, he said.

The Citizen Times reached out to all seven council members via email but had received no responses by Jan. 17.

What would the timetable be for the renovation?

First, any movement at all relies on the city of Asheville approving the project, and the potential major stakeholders — Asheville, Buncombe County and the Buncombe County TDA — agreeing on a finance plan.

With dozens of other issues, organizations and projects also demanding or seeking public funds — and the city already floating a 3 cent property tax increase this year — that could be a controversial, and likely time-consuming effort. But for the sake of argument, let's pretend the financial plan sails through.

"The design team says if we green light them this year, they could be ready to start in 2021," Corl said. "I can’t imagine we’re going to be able to pull all of this money together, contractually, by 2021, so a best case for us is probably 2022 or later.”

After that, construction is estimated to take 18 months, but Corl is calling it two years. So, if all the pieces fall into place, completion would come in 2024.

As far as the Wolfe's 7,000-seat arena neighbor, Corl is optimistic "we would be able to keep the arena open."

"There would be couple two-three month periods where would have to close the arena," he said. "The exhibit hall would be open the entire time."

The Banquet Hall meeting space ultimately will go away.

"There would be a void on that one public space downtown," Corl said, noting that A-B Tech and UNC Asheville, south and north of downtown, respectively, do have similar rooms. "I would love put (a banquet hall) across the street at 68 Haywood."

Corl smiled at that — it's the site of the notorious vacant lot that has stymied the city for two decades. Some call it the "Pit of Despair."

Clearly, that's a project for another day.

What will happen with the Asheville Symphony?

The Asheville Symphony does make up the largest portion of the auditorium's programming, offering performances 37 times a year.

Despite the potential displacement, Executive Director David Whitehill has nothing but enthusiasm for the proposed renovation. In an interview after Wednesday's unveiling, Whitehill spoke as if the proposal has the green light.

"We’re going to be out of the hall for two years — a minimum two years,” Whitehill said. “So, we’ll be on the road, throughout the community. I think you’ll see us do some series at churches, we’ll make a home at Diana Wortham (Theatre), we’ll probably do some (Harrah's Cherokee Center-Asheville) arena shows. So, things will be designed and programmed very differently, but it should be an opportunity that we can take advantage of while we’re out.”

Whitehill said the organization should be able to weather the upheaval financially.

He said the renovation plans, which call for lessening the width of the hall and increasing the height, would make for fantastic sound.

Whitehill has has appointments throughout the country, including in Florida and Southern California, experiencing a variety of venues.

"So I’ve seen the gamut of facilities, and this, for our community and what is proposed, would absolutely be first-rate,” Whitehill said, acknowledging that the building is 80 years old. "But it’s got great bones. It’s got the bones to withstand a renovation, and it’s a shoe box. The best concert halls in the world are shoe boxes. We just need to make a couple of adjustments to really bring that experience home.”

What is the impact on Harrah's Cherokee Center-Asheville?

Answer: Corl stressed it's too early to definitively answer that questions. But the arena has become a lot more flexible of late.

"Recently, through a project partially funded by the Tourism Development Authority, we purchased a significant amount of 50-foot tall curtains, trussing and sound and light equipment for use in the arena," Corl said. "This equipment, which is already in use, allows us to build rooms within the arena as small as 2,500 seats to as large as the full 7,200 seat arena."

The curtaining system would allow numerous events now booking the Wolfe "to still come to Asheville and simply play in cut-down versions of the arena," he said.

"On average we currently host 79 dates a year in the Thomas Wolfe Auditorium, approximately 37 of those dates are connected to the symphony," Corl said. "A rough estimate (for a construction scenario), looking through past calendars, we feel that we would be able to accommodate around 50-60% of the TWA events in the arena, assuming the event's client is willing to play in the 'cut down' version of the arena."

It's impossible to run the financials yet, but, "Theoretically we could be in a better financial position by reducing operating costs associated with keeping the TWA open," Corl said.

"But because we haven't explored complete timelines and logistics with a construction manager yet, we don't know to a full extent what affect there would be to the arena next door," he continued.

How would a closure affect employees and operations of the arena?

As far as the 26 employees who work at the arena and Wolfe, Corl noted that other cities that have embarked on renovations were able to temporarily shift them to other departments, such as Public Works, until work is completed. He hopes to do the same.

"I don't foresee a need for any positions to need to be displaced at this time," Corl said.

Could a revamped Wolfe could compete with Greenville or other similar venues?

Answer: “Well, the new, shiny thing typically wins, first of all,” Corl said. “And second, they’re an indie in the world of Broadway.”

Broadway shows would be a key to future success at Thomas Wolfe. Several comparably sized auditoriums in other cities independently book Broadway shows, but Corl said they're "in conversation" with the Nederlander Theatre on Broadway, which programs a large catalog of Broadway shows in auditoriums throughout the country, including in Durham, Greensboro and North Charleston, South Carolina.

"We would have the ability to create a full season immediately," Corl said. "And Broadway can fund a lot of other programming."

A renovated Thomas Wolfe would not be big enough for mega-Broadway productions such as "Aladdin" or "The Lion King," but it could host shows the size of "Book of Mormon," "How the Grinch Stole Christmas," and "Jersey Boys."

Corl envisions doubling the number of annual dates the Thomas Wolfe holds shows, while keeping its symphony dates.

He also noted that when the city renovated the main arena in 2012-14, a $20 million investment partnership, annual average attendance increased by 76,000, and the annual economic impact to Buncombe County increased by about $15.7 million.

Prior to the renovations, the arena typically performed worse than budgeted by $271,000 annually. Afterward, on a three-year average, that has swung around to performing better than budget by $679,000 annually, Corl said.

He would expect an even more significant turnaround at the Wolfe, which causes the overall Harrah's Cherokee Center-Asheville complex a budget loss of between $200,000-$300,000 a year.

Does the TDA think a Thomas Wolfe renovation will boost visitation and the economy?

Answer: “That is what happens now,” Brown said. “That’s the reason we have already contributed almost $6 million to that facility – it’s a good generator of visitation; it’s a good economic development tool that brings money in for lots of local businesses, including lodging. And it obviously has a clearly defined need, so I think it’s a great fit for this process."

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In fact, the downtown's need for infrastructure improvements, including the auditorium, were "part of the thinking of why we needed to embark on longer-range planning," she said.

Editor's note: This has been corrected to explain the relationship between the TDA and Explore Asheville.