It’s hard to boil down all the ways the Trump campaign and presidency have reshaped American political norms into a single conceptual frame.

But in his new, best-selling book Devil’s Bargain: Steve Bannon, Donald Trump, and The Storming of the Presidency, Businessweek’s Joshua Green has done just that. He joined us in the studio to discuss the duo’s impact on politics, and whether there’s any going back to how things were before.

Further reading:

Devils Bargain, by Joshua Green