Agreeing to the Ford government’s desired changes in Toronto transit projects would almost certainly delay the completion of some projects, the city manager says, but he does not think he should abandon talks with the province about uploading the subway system.

Chris Murray told city council Wednesday morning that Toronto now has more clarity on provincial intentions, thanks to letters from provincial officials made public Tuesday that say Toronto and Premier Doug Ford “are not aligned on key issues” related to the delivery of new transit lines.

But Toronto is still in the dark about a host of critical issues, Murray said, including what kind of new technology the Ford government wants on the subway’s Downtown Relief Line, who will pay for extra maintenance costs of unplanned tunnelling for the Eglinton West light-rail line, and if Toronto would be compensated for millions of dollars spent on current plans.

“Does it concern you that you are asking questions and not receiving substantial answers, and having to re-ask the question and again not get answers?” Councillor Kristyn Wong-Tam (Ward 13 Toronto Centre) asked Murray.

“I think that’s a reasonable comment,” the city manager replied.

Wong-Tam said the province’s plans would wreak havoc with the city’s entire network.

“This is not just about the relief line, it’s not just about Scarborough transit expansion, it is literally about throwing the city into transit chaos,” she said, and called on the city to formally state that it is only participating in talks with the province under protest.

“Will transit get better? No it won’t. Will transit get built? No it won’t. Will it get more expensive under Ford? Yes it will. Should we proceed without protest? No we shouldn’t.”

But after a lengthy debate, council voted overwhelmingly Wednesday to proceed with negotiations with the province — strongly supported by Mayor John Tory — rejecting moves from some councillors to walk away from the table or to mount a public protest over what is seen as a pending hostile takeover.

Under the jointly agreed to terms of reference for the upload talks, the city and province are supposed to consider options that wouldn’t include Ontario taking over the network.

But the letters published Tuesday, addressed to the city manager and CEO of the TTC from the deputy minister of transportation and Ford’s special adviser on the upload plan, state the province’s position that the differences over the new lines can only be resolved if “the responsibility for the design/delivery of these projects is transferred to the province.”

The letters also make clear that while the province is considering major financial contributions to those projects — including the Downtown Relief Line, Scarborough subway, Eglinton West LRT extension and a Yonge line extension to Richmond Hill — the funding would come with the “expectation that the province will have a leadership in the planning, design, and delivery of these projects.”

It outlines significant changes the province wishes to make on four projects that the city and TTC were already advancing, including converting a one-stop Scarborough subway back to a more expensive three-stop subway and building a Downtown Relief Line subway using “alternative delivery methods” that would create a “truly unique transit artery” and “free-standing project” separate from other parts of the “technologically outdated” subway system.

When it was his turn to speak ahead of the vote, Tory referred back to the city manager.

“I trust Chris Murray, our city manager,” he said “He’s there to represent our position, which we’ve set out, he’s there to represent our interests.”

Over the last 24 hours, Tory has said if the plan is not good for Torontonians, transit riders or employees of the TTC he would oppose it, making clear he does not yet think what the Ford government has proposed is at this point worth ending talks over.

The council vote was 23-3 to continue discussions with the province.

Letter from Ministry of Transportation to the city manager, TTC CEO View document on Scribd

Loading... Loading... Loading... Loading... Loading... Loading...

Tory also pushed for councillors to support a motion from Councillor Ana Bailao (Ward 18, Davenport) that would launch a public information campaign, while claiming her motion covered off an earlier effort by Councillors Joe Cressy (Ward 10 Spadina-Fort York) and Josh Matlow (Ward 12 Toronto-St. Paul’s) to engage the public.

But the Cressy and Matlow motion was fundamentally different, asking for a public information campaign “regarding the importance of retaining control of Toronto’s subways, and related property rights.”

“What the upload amounts to is the tearing up of our integrated transit plan and what that amounts to for residents of our city is further delays in the building of a transit plan,” said Cressy ahead of the votes. “I believe the moment in front of us is a leadership moment for all of us. Do we stand up as Torontonians for our city and do we expand our work from conversations in private around the terms of the debate and do we take that to the public to inform the public and stand up and help to lead the debate and lead public opinion on the vital interests of transit planning, transit expansion and the future of our city?”

Council also rejected a motion from Councillor Gord Perks (Ward 4 Parkdale-High Park) to allow the public to speak at the April council meeting on this issue.

City and TTC staff told council the changes would certainly delay completion of the Eglinton West LRT and Scarborough subway extension, while it’s unknown what effect using unspecified new technology on the relief line would do to timelines that remain unclear.

As council heard, the costs of the Scarborough subway are now more than the funds available — staff estimated it to be “just shy” of $3.9 billion — creating a political problem for Tory who promised to build the line.

“I also know that to get transit built, we must work together with the other governments,” Tory said ahead of the meeting on Wednesday. “We simply cannot build the transit alone. So I believe that leads to the conclusion that we absolutely must sit down with each other and resolve and discuss our differences.”

At Queen’s Park, Premier Doug Ford repeated the transit mantra of his late brother, former Toronto mayor Rob Ford.

“We’re going to build, build, build subways, subways, subways around the GTA and around Toronto,” the premier thundered in the legislature.

“When it comes to transportation, we’re just beginning. It’s nothing you’ve seen yet. We’re going to build proper transit here in Toronto,” said Ford.

“We’re going to finally get subways built to get people from point A to point B right across the GTA. We’re extending Eglinton. We’re making sure we’re building the Downtown Relief Line. We’re helping the people of Scarborough. My friends in Scarborough, help is on its way.”

Ford appeared to confirm what sources are telling the Star — that the April 11 provincial budget will outline a $30 billion expansion of public transit.

“We’re going to be putting tens of billions of dollars into building infrastructure across this province,” he said.

But NDP Leader Andrea Horwath, mindful of the transit planning chaos during Rob Ford’s tumultuous one term as mayor, noted that, as a city councillor, the premier “did a far better job of tearing plans up rather than getting anything built.”

“Why is the premier meddling with long-established transit plans and why is he determined to delay and destroy transit plans that are already approved and under way in Toronto?” said Horwath.

With files from Ben Spurr and Robert Benzie

David Rider is the Star’s City Hall bureau chief and a reporter covering Toronto politics. Follow him on Twitter: @dmrider

Read more about: