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Martin Wallgren









Joined: 01 Mar 2004



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Location: Bjästa, SwedenJoined: 01 Mar 2004 Posted: Tue 30 Oct, 2012 2:37 pm Post subject: Javelins with fleching! Must have!



Here are some examples in art.



[img]fouquet1458.jpg[/img] I have an uncontroleble urge to make one of these javelins with fleching that you see in several images. Could you guys point me to makers/retailers of good slender light spearheads to mount on a giant arrow.Here are some examples in art.[img]fouquet1458.jpg[/img] Swordsman, Archer and Dad



Last edited by Martin Wallgren on Tue 30 Oct, 2012 2:45 pm; edited 1 time in total

Luka Borscak









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Location: CroatiaJoined: 11 Jun 2007 Posted: Tue 30 Oct, 2012 2:53 pm Post subject: I know it's completely off topic, but does anybody now anything about the weird segmentata style armor from the last picture? Where and when is the picture from?

Benjamin H. Abbott









Joined: 28 Feb 2004



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Location: New MexicoJoined: 28 Feb 2004 Posted: Tue 30 Oct, 2012 3:32 pm Post subject: Great pictures! This makes me want to reconsider the role of the javelin in fifteenth-century warfare. I know the Irish loved their darts, but I'd thought few other peoples fought much with javelins during this period. I'm especially curious about the image that looks like it's from the sixteenth century (at the bottom of the second post). Out of doubt, out of dark to the day's rising

I came singing in the sun, sword unsheathing.

To hope's end I rode and to heart's breaking:

Now for wrath, now for ruin and a red nightfall!

Martin Wallgren









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Location: Bjästa, SwedenJoined: 01 Mar 2004 Posted: Tue 30 Oct, 2012 3:35 pm Post subject: Benjamin H. Abbott wrote: Great pictures! This makes me want to reconsider the role of the javelin in fifteenth-century warfare. I know the Irish loved their darts, but I'd thought few other peoples fought much with javelins during this period. I'm especially curious about the image that looks like it's from the sixteenth century (at the bottom of the second post).



This one?





BELLINI, Giovanni

Resurrection of Christ

1475-79

Oil on panel transferred to canvas, 148 x 128 cm

Staatliche Museen, Berlin This one?BELLINI, GiovanniResurrection of Christ1475-79Oil on panel transferred to canvas, 148 x 128 cmStaatliche Museen, Berlin Swordsman, Archer and Dad

Nicholas A. Gaese









Joined: 06 Aug 2007



Posts: 100



Location: Montreal, Quebec, CanadaJoined: 06 Aug 2007 Posted: Tue 30 Oct, 2012 4:18 pm Post subject: Cool idea, we dont see much of these large darts around enough. Mind if I contribute?



Drei kriegsleute, 1489 by Albrecht Durer.







Regards.



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Ralph Grinly









Joined: 19 Jan 2011



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Joined: 19 Jan 2011 Posted: Tue 30 Oct, 2012 9:33 pm Post subject: Most interesting. Do you know if anyone has made any such fletched javelins and tested them against identical, un-fletched ones ? It'd be interesting to know if fletched ones were more accurate, or had more range. I suspect the fletchings were intended to produce an increase in at least one ability ?

William P









Joined: 11 Jul 2010



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Location: Sydney, AustraliaJoined: 11 Jul 2010 Posted: Wed 31 Oct, 2012 1:00 am Post subject: I would very much imagine that accuracy would be the reason for it. Fletching, as we all know, stabilises a missiles flightpath.



My understanding is that the aztecs may have used it as well.



However what I want to know is WHO is being depicted in each picture, One of them shows a soldier in the spanish army as part of a battle against the english. Some of the people in the art look distinctly oriental/ middle eastern,



However the one that is a close up of an armoured hand holding the dart, the second last image on the first post, That one I can confirm is Austrian.

Peter Johnsson

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Location: Storvreta, SwedenJoined: 27 Aug 2003 Posted: Wed 31 Oct, 2012 1:30 am Post subject: It is interesting that there is no evidence of a throwing thong or finger loop in any of these depictions. At least I am unable to find such. Why is that, one wonders?

Randall Moffett









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Location: Northern UtahJoined: 07 Jun 2006 Posted: Wed 31 Oct, 2012 5:22 am Post subject: The only place I have found these being used in text in large scale is naval warfare. That said sometimes ships have 100s ot rhousands of them on board. I know some regional areas used them into the 15th, like Spain and Ireland but I could not say I have seen anything for England, France or Germany. If any one has I'd be interested. I was hoping to get some like this made but never did. Guess I'll wait till I get my own forge running.



RPM

Sean Flynt









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Location: Birmingham, AlabamaJoined: 21 Aug 2003 Posted: Wed 31 Oct, 2012 11:03 am Post subject:

Maybe A&A would sell you just the heads to save shipping expenses.

Of course, many (not all) of the medieval types appear to be of concave, barbed profile, but you could alter the A&A heads if you wanted to.

I got some swallowtail broadheads from Historic Enterprises in the hope of making some Irish javelins. The size of the head is okay, if on the small side, but the sockets are really too small for this application.

By the way, I've seen reference to leather and wood fletchings for these. Martin: You could simply fletch a few of these-- http://kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=AA227 Maybe A&A would sell you just the heads to save shipping expenses.Of course, many (not all) of the medieval types appear to be of concave, barbed profile, but you could alter the A&A heads if you wanted to.I got some swallowtail broadheads from Historic Enterprises in the hope of making some Irish javelins. The size of the head is okay, if on the small side, but the sockets are really too small for this application.By the way, I've seen reference to leather and wood fletchings for these. -Sean



"Everywhere I have searched for peace and nowhere found it, except in a corner with a book"- Thomas a Kempis (d. 1471)

Benjamin H. Abbott









Joined: 28 Feb 2004



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Location: New MexicoJoined: 28 Feb 2004 Posted: Wed 31 Oct, 2012 2:10 pm Post subject: Martin Wallgren wrote: This one?



Yes, thanks. It's a bit earlier than I thought. Given the context, the javelin might represent the imagined Roman fighting style rather than a contemporary one. Out of doubt, out of dark to the day's rising

I came singing in the sun, sword unsheathing.

To hope's end I rode and to heart's breaking:

Now for wrath, now for ruin and a red nightfall!

Michael Curl









Joined: 06 Jan 2008



Posts: 487



Location: Northern California, USJoined: 06 Jan 2008 Posted: Thu 01 Nov, 2012 7:56 am Post subject: In the resurrection of christ, check out the morningstar spear that the guy on the right has. Really cool. E Pluribus Unum

Philip Melhop









Joined: 24 May 2008



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Location: Wokingham, Berkshire, UKJoined: 24 May 2008 Posted: Thu 01 Nov, 2012 8:18 am Post subject: Leo Todeschini wrote: Hector cole in the UK



Tod



Saw his stand at the International Living History Fair at Bruntingthorpe, he had any number of variations on the light spear/javelin theme, some in very nice pattern welded versions

Phil

Shane Allee

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Location: South Bend, INJoined: 29 Aug 2003 Posted: Thu 01 Nov, 2012 9:10 am Post subject: Early in the year I was doing some practice forging on javelin points and this is one that I turned into a Kern chucker. Messing around with trying to attach leather veins and they pinwheeled on me. I really didn't think there was much chance of them staying on or working, but it has seen a good bit of use. What I found was that this will turn a very ugly throw around and it will come down at a good angle almost everytime. Noticed this even more when using an amentum or atlatl. Of course this is in no way a dart made to be thrown with an atlatl, but fun to try none the less.



Shane



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Henrik Zoltan Toth









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Location: HungaryJoined: 18 Feb 2007 Posted: Thu 01 Nov, 2012 9:19 am Post subject: I think these are recycled ballista-arrows.