One of the problems I have with the evangelical church is that it seems more dazzled by the miracles than the message. Particularly in the age of Trump, conservative pastors weaponize God to support a president who is trying to cut Medicaid and school lunches for the poor. Shouldn’t conservative Christians believe as much in the good Samaritan as in the Virgin Birth?

I grew up in what I now call a “toxic” fundamentalist church in the South, and I view with dismay the contemporary mixing of politics and religion, including some of the policies you mention. Churches often end up on the wrong side of issues — such as the blatant racism I heard from the pulpit as a child. Fortunately, I travel to other countries where I can see the long-term results of the Gospel that Jesus preached. According to Transparency International’s index, nine of the 10 least corrupt countries have a strong Christian heritage. The same pattern holds true for indices that measure freedom, prosperity, gender equality, earth care, human rights, democracy, freedom of the press, and charity.

Those are indeed countries with a Christian heritage — that they are walking away from. Secular countries do better on those indices, no?

You would have to mention that! Jesus likened the kingdom of God to a tiny seed that falls into the ground and grows into a great bush in which the birds of the air can nest. The Gospel advances by fits and starts, but over time it does bring about change for the good. Think of Scandinavian countries, which rank at the top on most of those indices. For about 200 years, many prayers in Europe sought protection from the Vikings. The Gospel transformed the culture, and the benefits continue even after many Scandinavians have turned away from formal religion. In a way they are living off the moral capital of good Samaritan values.

Do you think religion results in better people? I’ve seen many people of faith risk their lives for others. But conversely it was conservative Christians who helped delay any effective response to AIDS in the 1980s and early 1990s because it was gay men who were dying. That was just plain evil.

We’re flawed human beings who get some things right and some things wrong. Much like those in the recovery movement, we acknowledge our helplessness and dependence on God to forgive us, and to give us the power to become more like Jesus. The “better people” were the ones most opposed to Jesus. Little wonder: Jesus said that prostitutes and tax collectors would go first into the kingdom of God, ahead of the religious professionals.

At the same time, like you, I know many people who do God’s work humbly and sacrificially. I wrote three books with a renowned leprosy specialist who told me that virtually every advance in the understanding and treatment of that feared disease came from Christian missionaries — not because they were necessarily the best doctors and researchers, but because they were the ones willing to work with leprosy-afflicted persons. And, while you’re right that some Christian leaders gave an appalling response to the AIDS epidemic, in the end it was the evangelical surgeon general C. Everett Koop who pushed a reluctant government to give it attention and resources.