mike4001



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Sr. MemberActivity: 444Merit: 260 Re: SegWit2x will get activated for sure? June 20, 2017, 06:57:17 AM #2 They are implementing the exact SegWit version Core made.



So I don't really see the centralization part.



But yes, it looks like if they finish the code before August 1st, they will activate it and UASF will be canceled.

deisik



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LegendaryActivity: 2422Merit: 1209English ⬄ Russian Translation Services Re: SegWit2x will get activated for sure? June 20, 2017, 10:53:20 AM #7 Quote from: mike4001 on June 20, 2017, 06:57:17 AM They are implementing the exact SegWit version Core made.



So I don't really see the centralization part.



But yes, it looks like if they finish the code before August 1st, they will activate it and UASF will be canceled.



Whether UASF is good or bad is debatable, or course



But I don't quite like the idea of "if they finish the code before August 1st". Being a developer myself, I know that it takes many months to polish the code and get rid of nasty bugs that may be sitting patiently there and then one day wreak total chaos. We have seen that already with Bugs Unlimited, and now they want to do this again? Whenever there is some deadline, you can be dead sure that the code will be infested with bugs. I'm talking about the 2x part apparently, SegWit itself seems to be pretty consistent after a few years of development and testing. Whoever promotes SegWit2x is obviously out of his mind and seriously looking for trouble



Quote from: DooMAD on June 20, 2017, 07:54:56 AM If SegWit2X takes place, the Core devs can simply add the 2MB part to their own code and carry on like nothing happened

That seems to be the most scary part of the whole shebang Whether UASF is good or bad is debatable, or courseBut I don't quite like the idea of "if they finish the code before August 1st". Being a developer myself, I know that it takes many months to polish the code and get rid of nasty bugs that may be sitting patiently there and then one day wreak total chaos. We have seen that already with Bugs Unlimited, and now they want to do this again? Whenever there is some deadline, you can be dead sure that the code will be infested with bugs. I'm talking about the 2x part apparently, SegWit itself seems to be pretty consistent after a few years of development and testing. Whoever promotes SegWit2x is obviously out of his mind and seriously looking for troubleThat seems to be the most scary part of the whole shebang

hase0278



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Hero MemberActivity: 882Merit: 535 Re: SegWit2x will get activated for sure? June 20, 2017, 11:51:56 AM #9 Quote from: bryant.coleman on June 20, 2017, 11:25:08 AM Your post makes me really nervous about the short-term future. If some bug is found in the code, and if it can be exploited by the hackers, then there will be all sort of chaos. I still remember what happened in March 2014, when Mt Gox crashed (although it had nothing to do with software bugs). There were chaos all around and the exchange rate was doing down like a falling knife.

Even if that is the case, it would still get fixed soon and don't be nervous about the short-term future and think about the long term one. There would be chaos all around if that happens but it would still be like Mt Gox, it will wear out soon and just be another part of bitcoin history. For now I hope for the best ever bitcoin proposal to win and I expect it to resolve the slow confirmation times on transactions that we are experiencing now. Even if that is the case, it would still get fixed soon and don't be nervous about the short-term future and think about the long term one. There would be chaos all around if that happens but it would still be like Mt Gox, it will wear out soon and just be another part of bitcoin history. For now I hope for the best ever bitcoin proposal to win and I expect it to resolve the slow confirmation times on transactions that we are experiencing now.

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NewbieActivity: 12Merit: 0 Re: SegWit2x will get activated for sure? June 20, 2017, 12:21:16 PM #10 Well, the segwit code is actually the same as used by core and has had all the rigorous testing already performed! The new development will be the extension to larger blocks. I would assume this is just changing a hard coded value somewhere, if that was the case then it shouldn't be that difficult to code, as most emphasis would be on tweaking existing test procedures to consider the new block size). Having said that, it probably isn't coded in this way (?) and there are perhaps indirectly affected processes, nothing it seems, is ever easy when programming haha.

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LegendaryActivity: 2422Merit: 1209English ⬄ Russian Translation Services Re: SegWit2x will get activated for sure? June 20, 2017, 01:53:48 PM

Last edit: June 20, 2017, 02:24:10 PM by deisik #12 Quote from: bryant.coleman on June 20, 2017, 11:25:08 AM Quote from: deisik on June 20, 2017, 10:53:20 AM Quote from: mike4001 on June 20, 2017, 06:57:17 AM They are implementing the exact SegWit version Core made.



So I don't really see the centralization part.



But yes, it looks like if they finish the code before August 1st, they will activate it and UASF will be canceled.



Whether UASF is good or bad is debatable, or course



But I don't quite like the idea of "if they finish the code before August 1st". Being a developer myself, I know that it takes many months to polish the code and get rid of nasty bugs that may be sitting patiently there and then one day wreak total chaos. We have seen that already with Bugs Unlimited, and now they want to do this again? Whenever there is some deadline, you can be dead sure that the code will be infested with bugs. I'm talking about the 2x part apparently, SegWit itself seems to be pretty consistent after a few years of development and testing. Whoever promotes SegWit2x is obviously out of his mind and seriously looking for trouble



Quote from: DooMAD on June 20, 2017, 07:54:56 AM If SegWit2X takes place, the Core devs can simply add the 2MB part to their own code and carry on like nothing happened

That seems to be the most scary part of the whole shebang

Whether UASF is good or bad is debatable, or courseBut I don't quite like the idea of "if they finish the code before August 1st". Being a developer myself, I know that it takes many months to polish the code and get rid of nasty bugs that may be sitting patiently there and then one day wreak total chaos. We have seen that already with Bugs Unlimited, and now they want to do this again? Whenever there is some deadline, you can be dead sure that the code will be infested with bugs. I'm talking about the 2x part apparently, SegWit itself seems to be pretty consistent after a few years of development and testing. Whoever promotes SegWit2x is obviously out of his mind and seriously looking for troubleThat seems to be the most scary part of the whole shebang

Your post makes me really nervous about the short-term future. If some bug is found in the code, and if it can be exploited by the hackers, then there will be all sort of chaos. I still remember what happened in March 2014, when Mt Gox crashed (although it had nothing to do with software bugs). There were chaos all around and the exchange rate was doing down like a falling knife Your post makes me really nervous about the short-term future. If some bug is found in the code, and if it can be exploited by the hackers, then there will be all sort of chaos. I still remember what happened in March 2014, when Mt Gox crashed (although it had nothing to do with software bugs). There were chaos all around and the exchange rate was doing down like a falling knife

You are certainly not alone



I myself feel quite worried even though I mostly moved my funds to Litecoin and the US dollar by now. I'm afraid that if some vulnerability found and exploited to the full, it may also affect all cryptocurrencies, not just Bitcoin. And the most dreadful thing would be if major exchanges start failing and falling. This SegWit2x thing looks like a Trojan horse to me since exchanges won't be able to decline it unless they choose to delist Bitcoin completely (even if temporarily). Personally, I hope that it will be postponed for at least half a year (if not abandoned altogether) You are certainly not aloneI myself feel quite worried even though I mostly moved my funds to Litecoin and the US dollar by now. I'm afraid that if some vulnerability found and exploited to the full, it may also affect all cryptocurrencies, not just Bitcoin. And the most dreadful thing would be if major exchanges start failing and falling. This SegWit2x thing looks like a Trojan horse to me since exchanges won't be able to decline it unless they choose to delist Bitcoin completely (even if temporarily). Personally, I hope that it will be postponed for at least half a year (if not abandoned altogether)

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LegendaryActivity: 1204Merit: 1020 Re: SegWit2x will get activated for sure? June 20, 2017, 02:12:13 PM #13 Even if 100% of miners signal for something, that something is irrelevant if it's not backed by Bitcoin Core devs. Bitcoin Core devs developed all the technology, and they think it's a good idea to fire them and put some random morons in charge instead to maintain and develop Bitcoin. Big mistake. Every miner supporting this instead of BIP141 will soon face bankruptcy if they are stupid enough to run that software.

deisik



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LegendaryActivity: 2422Merit: 1209English ⬄ Russian Translation Services Re: SegWit2x will get activated for sure? June 20, 2017, 02:23:07 PM #14 Quote from: BillyBobZorton on June 20, 2017, 02:12:13 PM Even if 100% of miners signal for something, that something is irrelevant if it's not backed by Bitcoin Core devs. Bitcoin Core devs developed all the technology, and they think it's a good idea to fire them and put some random morons in charge instead to maintain and develop Bitcoin. Big mistake. Every miner supporting this instead of BIP141 will soon face bankruptcy if they are stupid enough to run that software

You certainly don't see how dangerous the current situation is



It is not just about miners going bust, they are basically a waste material anyway (in the sense they can be easily processed and substituted if required). Indeed, this is not how they feel and behave right now but this is how things should be if done right, and this is the crux of the matter. If it were only about them being spent and wiped out, no one would give a goddamn fuck. The real problem is that they have enough power to take Bitcoin down with them if they choose so (or at least, turn Bitcoin into a waste material as well), and I for one have no doubts that they will (I refer to Jihan and his minions, more specifically) You certainly don't see how dangerous the current situation isIt is not just about miners going bust, they are basically a waste material anyway (in the sense they can be easily processed and substituted if required). Indeed, this is not how they feel and behave right now but this is how things should be if done right, and this is the crux of the matter. If it were only about them being spent and wiped out, no one would give a goddamn fuck. The real problem is that they have enough power to take Bitcoin down with them if they choose so (or at least, turn Bitcoin into a waste material as well), and I for one have no doubts that they will (I refer to Jihan and his minions, more specifically)

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LegendaryActivity: 1204Merit: 1020 Re: SegWit2x will get activated for sure? June 20, 2017, 03:15:45 PM #15 Quote from: deisik on June 20, 2017, 02:23:07 PM Quote from: BillyBobZorton on June 20, 2017, 02:12:13 PM Even if 100% of miners signal for something, that something is irrelevant if it's not backed by Bitcoin Core devs. Bitcoin Core devs developed all the technology, and they think it's a good idea to fire them and put some random morons in charge instead to maintain and develop Bitcoin. Big mistake. Every miner supporting this instead of BIP141 will soon face bankruptcy if they are stupid enough to run that software

You certainly don't see how dangerous the current situation is



It is not just about miners going bust, they are basically a waste material anyway (in the sense they can be easily processed and substituted if required). Indeed, this is not how they feel and behave right now but this is how things should be if done right, and this is the crux of the matter. If it were only about them being spent and wiped out, no one would give a goddamn fuck. The real problem is that they have enough power to take Bitcoin down with them if they choose so (or at least, turn Bitcoin into a waste material as well), and I for one have no doubts that they will (I refer to Jihan and his minions, more specifically)

You certainly don't see how dangerous the current situation isIt is not just about miners going bust, they are basically a waste material anyway (in the sense they can be easily processed and substituted if required). Indeed, this is not how they feel and behave right now but this is how things should be if done right, and this is the crux of the matter. If it were only about them being spent and wiped out, no one would give a goddamn fuck. The real problem is that they have enough power to take Bitcoin down with them if they choose so (or at least, turn Bitcoin into a waste material as well), and I for one have no doubts that they will (I refer to Jihan and his minions, more specifically)

Let's wait until october and see what happens. I suspect there will be fireworks and it will be a failure that will display NYC is a mistake. The rushed hardfork into inferior software is going to be a joke. If they try to attack the legacy chain that sticks with Core we may need a PoW change... I dont know honestly how it will play out. Let's wait until october and see what happens. I suspect there will be fireworks and it will be a failure that will display NYC is a mistake. The rushed hardfork into inferior software is going to be a joke. If they try to attack the legacy chain that sticks with Core we may need a PoW change... I dont know honestly how it will play out.

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MemberActivity: 75Merit: 10 Re: SegWit2x will get activated for sure? June 20, 2017, 04:07:00 PM #16 Hello!



New to this forum, been reading for a few days and trying to educate myself in these issues, but still trying to understand:



Can someone explain, or more likely, link to me, what is so dangerous about the whole SegWit2x issue? For what I know, Litecoin already does SegWit, and as for the 2 MB block, is it really that much or that complex? On the surface it seems rather straightforward. To me it sounds like anything that improves scalability will strengthen BTC. Maybe not its value short-term, but for sure its validity as a currency.



Best regards.

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Sr. MemberActivity: 444Merit: 260 Re: SegWit2x will get activated for sure? June 20, 2017, 04:34:06 PM #17 Quote from: BillyBobZorton on June 20, 2017, 03:15:45 PM Quote from: deisik on June 20, 2017, 02:23:07 PM Quote from: BillyBobZorton on June 20, 2017, 02:12:13 PM Even if 100% of miners signal for something, that something is irrelevant if it's not backed by Bitcoin Core devs. Bitcoin Core devs developed all the technology, and they think it's a good idea to fire them and put some random morons in charge instead to maintain and develop Bitcoin. Big mistake. Every miner supporting this instead of BIP141 will soon face bankruptcy if they are stupid enough to run that software

You certainly don't see how dangerous the current situation is



It is not just about miners going bust, they are basically a waste material anyway (in the sense they can be easily processed and substituted if required). Indeed, this is not how they feel and behave right now but this is how things should be if done right, and this is the crux of the matter. If it were only about them being spent and wiped out, no one would give a goddamn fuck. The real problem is that they have enough power to take Bitcoin down with them if they choose so (or at least, turn Bitcoin into a waste material as well), and I for one have no doubts that they will (I refer to Jihan and his minions, more specifically)

You certainly don't see how dangerous the current situation isIt is not just about miners going bust, they are basically a waste material anyway (in the sense they can be easily processed and substituted if required). Indeed, this is not how they feel and behave right now but this is how things should be if done right, and this is the crux of the matter. If it were only about them being spent and wiped out, no one would give a goddamn fuck. The real problem is that they have enough power to take Bitcoin down with them if they choose so (or at least, turn Bitcoin into a waste material as well), and I for one have no doubts that they will (I refer to Jihan and his minions, more specifically)

Let's wait until october and see what happens. I suspect there will be fireworks and it will be a failure that will display NYC is a mistake. The rushed hardfork into inferior software is going to be a joke. If they try to attack the legacy chain that sticks with Core we may need a PoW change... I dont know honestly how it will play out.

Let's wait until october and see what happens. I suspect there will be fireworks and it will be a failure that will display NYC is a mistake. The rushed hardfork into inferior software is going to be a joke. If they try to attack the legacy chain that sticks with Core we may need a PoW change... I dont know honestly how it will play out.

Then we have SegWit activated and no hard fork



Exactly what Core wants, isn't it? Then we have SegWit activated and no hard forkExactly what Core wants, isn't it?

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LegendaryActivity: 2422Merit: 1209English ⬄ Russian Translation Services Re: SegWit2x will get activated for sure? June 20, 2017, 04:38:02 PM #18 Quote from: Krimster on June 20, 2017, 04:07:00 PM Hello!



New to this forum, been reading for a few days and trying to educate myself in these issues, but still trying to understand:



Can someone explain, or more likely, link to me, what is so dangerous about the whole SegWit2x issue? For what I know, Litecoin already does SegWit, and as for the 2 MB block, is it really that much or that complex? On the surface it seems rather straightforward. To me it sounds like anything that improves scalability will strengthen BTC. Maybe not its value short-term, but for sure its validity as a currency

You simply can't take and merge two two different codebases in one project



And hope that there wouldn't be bugs. Now imagine that some dude has a pacemaker implanted, so if its software has a bug and the device malfunctions due to this bug, the poor dude may get instantly killed by an electric discharge. It is the same with forcing such updates on cryptocurrencies. One bug found and exploited may render the whole system totally unusable. And it doesn't really matter how complex the resulting code will be, you can safely assume that it is complex enough to contain a few nasty bugs that may require many months of intensive testing to weed them out. If anything, that has already been proven in practice with BU



Quote from: mike4001 on June 20, 2017, 04:34:06 PM Quote from: BillyBobZorton on June 20, 2017, 03:15:45 PM Let's wait until october and see what happens. I suspect there will be fireworks and it will be a failure that will display NYC is a mistake. The rushed hardfork into inferior software is going to be a joke. If they try to attack the legacy chain that sticks with Core we may need a PoW change... I dont know honestly how it will play out.



Then we have SegWit activated and no hard fork

Then we have SegWit activated and no hard fork

This in no way prevents miners from taking revenge on Bitcoin You simply can't take and merge two two different codebases in one projectAnd hope that there wouldn't be bugs. Now imagine that some dude has a pacemaker implanted, so if its software has a bug and the device malfunctions due to this bug, the poor dude may get instantly killed by an electric discharge. It is the same with forcing such updates on cryptocurrencies. One bug found and exploited may render the whole system totally unusable. And it doesn't really matter how complex the resulting code will be, you can safely assume that it is complex enough to contain a few nasty bugs that may require many months of intensive testing to weed them out. If anything, that has already been proven in practice with BUThis in no way prevents miners from taking revenge on Bitcoin