ninjamyst Profile Joined September 2010 United States 1903 Posts #1 Sorry if this topic has been covered before but I tried searching and didn't find any relevant past topics.



How come most teams outside of Korea do not have coaches? Take TeamLiquid and EG for example. Who monitors the players' practice schedule? Who gives them good insights on their replays? Who works with them on their strengths and weaknesses? If a player is just laddering all day without good analysis of their play, it's not very beneficial. The player of course will go back and analyze, but it seems like a coach's perspective will be much more helpful. Team members can help but it's still not the same as a dedicated coach right?

teh_longinator Profile Joined March 2010 Canada 725 Posts #2 If anything, I'd say that having teammates is BETTER than having a dedicated coach. Team wouldn't need coaches if their teammates just worked very hard amongst eachother.



You can have ONE guy checking your replays, and giving his insight, or you can have TEN doing the same. That way, you get more ideas how to do one thing, and increase the amount of reactions you can have.

FatkiddsLag Profile Joined May 2010 United States 412 Posts #3 EG does. incontrol. hes mentioned that before. all your base..... and that whole thing

1Eris1 Profile Joined September 2010 United States 5797 Posts #4 On November 30 2011 11:51 eLe.Long wrote:

If anything, I'd say that having teammates is BETTER than having a dedicated coach. Team wouldn't need coaches if their teammates just worked very hard amongst eachother.



You can have ONE guy checking your replays, and giving his insight, or you can have TEN doing the same. That way, you get more ideas how to do one thing, and increase the amount of reactions you can have.





Shouldn't your teammates be focusing on their own replays/games? If they are checking yours, how are they getting better?



To anwser the OP, because there are very few organized teams that all stay in the same place, or that could afford one. Shouldn't your teammates be focusing on their own replays/games? If they are checking yours, how are they getting better?To anwser the OP, because there are very few organized teams that all stay in the same place, or that could afford one. Known Aliases: Tyragon, Valeric ~MSL Forever, SKT is truly the Superior KT!

kazie Profile Blog Joined September 2010 256 Posts #5 i think korean teams are bigger than most foreign teams arent they?

also i guess it's a legitimacy thing carried over from bw, while foreign teams dont have that expectation so they dont want to spend/waste money on it

Azzur Profile Blog Joined July 2010 Australia 6083 Posts #6 On November 30 2011 11:51 eLe.Long wrote:

If anything, I'd say that having teammates is BETTER than having a dedicated coach. Team wouldn't need coaches if their teammates just worked very hard amongst eachother.



You can have ONE guy checking your replays, and giving his insight, or you can have TEN doing the same. That way, you get more ideas how to do one thing, and increase the amount of reactions you can have.

Disagree - having a coach has been PROVEN to work (see korean BW / SC2 teams).



The most likely reason is that as a coach, you tend to get no fame / money, which is why the majority of foreigners prefer to be players. However, I do see that there will be future potential for this role in foreign teams. Disagree - having a coach has been PROVEN to work (see korean BW / SC2 teams).The most likely reason is that as a coach, you tend to get no fame / money, which is why the majority of foreigners prefer to be players. However, I do see that there will be future potential for this role in foreign teams.

Trusty Profile Joined July 2010 New Zealand 520 Posts #7 Coaches are extra $$, but would pretty much always add value. Also lack of experience for foreign coaches? Most of the korean coaches seem to be ex-bw coaches, or thereof.

BrosephBrostar Profile Blog Joined December 2009 United States 445 Posts Last Edited: 2011-11-30 03:00:18 #8



I think the problem is that there's no one to hire. Most Korean coaches are retired progamers. I can't think of any non-Korean retired players that haven't completely left the community. On November 30 2011 11:51 eLe.Long wrote:

If anything, I'd say that having teammates is BETTER than having a dedicated coach. Team wouldn't need coaches if their teammates just worked very hard amongst eachother.



You can have ONE guy checking your replays, and giving his insight, or you can have TEN doing the same. That way, you get more ideas how to do one thing, and increase the amount of reactions you can have.



tell that to pretty much every other professional sport tell that to pretty much every other professional sport

darkcloud8282 Profile Joined December 2010 Canada 731 Posts #9 Not having a coach means you can do whatever you want instead of practising.. Not saying that more practice is always better, but having someone to remind you to stop slacking off and get back to work is something that everyone needs IMO. Just look at professional sports, having a coach to give you pointers is a definite help in all cases. Sometimes just having teammates isn't helpful because they might not speak their mind when discussing problems in practice.

Golgotha Profile Blog Joined January 2011 Korea (South) 8319 Posts #10 On November 30 2011 11:54 kazie wrote:

i think korean teams are bigger than most foreign teams arent they?

also i guess it's a legitimacy thing carried over from bw, while foreign teams dont have that expectation so they dont want to spend/waste money on it



Pretty sure EG has more dough than most Korean SC2 teams.



btw people are underestimating the value of a strong coach for a team. A coach is not just for looking at replays but also for managing a player's time and energy. It keeps everyone accountable and answerable to a higher up. A coach gives a team direction. A coach is also a strategist that can be crucial during team matches or sizing up an opponent. A coach does the dirty work so the player can sit back and play. All foreign teams should get a strong coach. Pretty sure EG has more dough than most Korean SC2 teams.btw people are underestimating the value of a strong coach for a team. A coach is not just for looking at replays but also for managing a player's time and energy. It keeps everyone accountable and answerable to a higher up. A coach gives a team direction. A coach is also a strategist that can be crucial during team matches or sizing up an opponent. A coach does the dirty work so the player can sit back and play. All foreign teams should get a strong coach.

Phelski Profile Joined December 2010 United States 141 Posts #11 most dont live with eachother, so coaching would be hard

Itsmedudeman Profile Blog Joined March 2011 United States 12350 Posts #12 I don't think anyone in the foreign scene would be experienced enough to be a sc2 coach, and because they're not all living in a house or anything, it'd be pretty hard to coach your team.

Postman Profile Joined July 2010 United States 264 Posts #13 Most teams have their players spread over a huge area, many have players on 3+ continents. You can't really have a set coach in that instance, whereas the Korean teams have everyone living together.

Zzoram Profile Joined February 2008 Canada 7070 Posts #14 Foreign teams don't have coaches because they think they know better, but they don't.



Every competitive team of any sort needs a coach. Someone has to be able to be the "bad guy" that forces players to train more than they want to, or to practice a particular thing that they hate doing, and it has to be a coach. This is because teammates feel like they don't want to be the "jerk" and so they can't boss each other around or be as critical of each other as a proper coach can be.



The eSTRO coach forced Idra to raise his APM to like 350+ and use different hotkey configurations as his first task in Korea. It's something he probably hated, and made him play worse for a long time, but in the end it gave him the mechanical skills that allowed him to become successful today. There are plenty of players right now like Sjow who have super low APM and aren't trying to increase it because they're comfortable with what they're doing. They need a coach to force them to go through the grueling process of increasing APM so that they can eventually multitask better. Doesn't dde not even use hotkeys for his production buildings? Stuff like that is ridiculous and no coach would allow it, but players do because they like to play the way they learned to initially, regardless of their bad habits, and because they want to stay friendly with their teammates.

Nontrivial Profile Joined April 2011 United States 56 Posts #15 On November 30 2011 11:52 FatkiddsLag wrote:

EG does. incontrol. hes mentioned that before.



My understanding is Incontrol is team captain not a coach. I think it is a good point to bring up and something that should change especially given the disconnect from management to player (this is my outside prospective but for example Sirscoots has played less then 10 games of SC2). Especially if you buy in to what Incontrol posted in the MLG write up that one of the prime functions of team houses is to make teams more professional -- having a coach would seem to help that out a lot. My understanding is Incontrol is team captain not a coach. I think it is a good point to bring up and something that should change especially given the disconnect from management to player (this is my outside prospective but for example Sirscoots has played less then 10 games of SC2). Especially if you buy in to what Incontrol posted in the MLG write up that one of the prime functions of team houses is to make teams more professional -- having a coach would seem to help that out a lot.

NexCa Profile Joined March 2011 Germany 942 Posts Last Edited: 2011-11-30 03:48:15 #16 I dont think that coaches are necessary, just ppl who are working really hard amongst each other and have a look on the other team partner and give him his understanding of the game, ofc it works better at higher lvl's. Best Protoss Player 4 ever - Bisu[Shield] || http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=326242 || THIS IS WHERE WE STAND, THIS IS WHERE THEY FALL, GIVE THEM NOTHING, BUT TAKE FROM THEM EVERYTHING ! || SKT FIGHTIIING

Xova Profile Joined November 2010 United States 342 Posts #17 I think it might be because most NA teams do not have team house. If you're a Starcraft fan, you're an Lim Yo Hwan fan.

kazie Profile Blog Joined September 2010 256 Posts Last Edited: 2011-11-30 03:11:37 #18 On November 30 2011 11:58 Golgotha wrote:

Show nested quote +

On November 30 2011 11:54 kazie wrote:

i think korean teams are bigger than most foreign teams arent they?

also i guess it's a legitimacy thing carried over from bw, while foreign teams dont have that expectation so they dont want to spend/waste money on it



Pretty sure EG has more dough than most Korean SC2 teams.



btw people are underestimating the value of a strong coach for a team. A coach is not just for looking at replays but also for managing a player's time and energy. It keeps everyone accountable and answerable to a higher up. A coach gives a team direction. A coach is also a strategist that can be crucial during team matches or sizing up an opponent. A coach does the dirty work so the player can sit back and play. All foreign teams should get a strong coach. Pretty sure EG has more dough than most Korean SC2 teams.btw people are underestimating the value of a strong coach for a team. A coach is not just for looking at replays but also for managing a player's time and energy. It keeps everyone accountable and answerable to a higher up. A coach gives a team direction. A coach is also a strategist that can be crucial during team matches or sizing up an opponent. A coach does the dirty work so the player can sit back and play. All foreign teams should get a strong coach.



i was talking more about player numbers. i think tsl is the smallest and they have 9 players. slayers has 20+

eg does have a decent number too but how many would make use of that coach by staying in their team house? same with other teams even if they had team houses, a lot of them wouldnt/couldnt stay in it.

i was talking more about player numbers. i think tsl is the smallest and they have 9 players. slayers has 20+eg does have a decent number too but how many would make use of that coach by staying in their team house? same with other teams even if they had team houses, a lot of them wouldnt/couldnt stay in it.

Zzoram Profile Joined February 2008 Canada 7070 Posts #19 On November 30 2011 12:04 NexCa wrote:

I dont think that coacces are necessary, just ppl who are working really hard amongst each other and have a look on the other team partner and give him his understanding of the game, ofc it works better at higher lvl's.



That is absolutely false. Players cannot keep each other in line because of the social dynamics of being teammates. You need someone who holds authority over the players to really hold them accountable and force them to do things they may not like but that will make them into better players. Every professional sport has coaches for a reason. Even the individual sports typically have a coach type person, like the caddie in golf. That is absolutely false. Players cannot keep each other in line because of the social dynamics of being teammates. You need someone who holds authority over the players to really hold them accountable and force them to do things they may not like but that will make them into better players. Every professional sport has coaches for a reason. Even the individual sports typically have a coach type person, like the caddie in golf.

fourColo Profile Joined June 2011 United States 363 Posts #20 On November 30 2011 12:04 NexCa wrote:

I dont think that coacces are necessary, just ppl who are working really hard amongst each other and have a look on the other team partner and give him his understanding of the game, ofc it works better at higher lvl's.

Coaches aren't necessary in the same way that winning tournaments isn't necessary. Coaches aren't necessary in the same way that winning tournaments isn't necessary.

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