"I wasn't part of the Actors Studio," he says, "but I tried out for it five times. You had to get past the first judges, which I didn't – most didn't – and then be able to go back for a second round. And then I think, after that, Lee Strasberg himself judged you. I never could get past the first judges. It was an awful experience. Because auditions were kind of in the round, very dark, and you were just frightened out of your wits. But I heard that Lee Strasberg had his own private classes, in the Carnegie Hall building. He had a big room there, and about 70 or 80 students, and we all paid. It took me two years to get an interview with him. And then I waited probably a year to find out that I was accepted, and then I started studying with Strasberg and paying for it." He was, he says, "on scholarship – which meant you cleaned the toilets".