-I just posted this in another thread but I figured it was big and important enough to have its own thread. Maybe it can be stickied?-



The End of All Smash Brawl Lag Debates



Basic information:



-Every device like a screen that accepts input video sources and displays it has a single native resolution. A device can not have multiple native resolutions. Old TVs that don't even have component inputs are 480i. Early component capable TVs that don't support progressive scan are 480i. Any non-HD TV with component inputs that is progressive scan capable is 480p. All HD-TVs are either 720p or 1080p. 1080p is generally considered "Full-HD" and these native TV's have not been on the market for very long. There is no such thing as a TV with a 1080i native resolution. TVs that advertise 1080i resolution are either native with 480p or 720p



-If a TV's native resolution is 720p or 1080p, it is a HDTV. If a TV's native resolution is 480p, it is an EDTV. If the TV's native rez is 480i, it is an SDTV.



-Devices that output video such as game consoles can run in different native resolutions. The 360 can run natively in 480i/480p/720p/1080p. Notice how I didn't mention 1080i even though it is an option in the menu. 1080i is essentially a fake resolution. It was a workaround to achieve an HD resolution on older TVs. 720p is better than 1080i. p essentially means twice the lines, so double 720 and you get 1440, which is more than 1080. When you play 1080i on a 360 you are either upscaling 480p or downscaling 720p.



-Just about any device can downscale resolutions. This is why new consoles can still run in 480i when they are all atleast natively 480p. However, few devices can upconvert. The 360 for instance can upconvert with it's hardware acceleration chip. This is a processor in the 360 devoted solely to upconversion and the end result is approximately no lag (1ms TOPS). This is why on my EDTV that is native in 480p but can run 1080i, the 360 can use 1080i. The PS3 however can not upconvert as it has no hardware acceleration processor meant for the task. If the PS3 was to run in 1080i, it has to be on a 720p capable TV. If I run a PS3 on my EDTV, it can only run in 480p and not 1080i like my 360. That sure is a waste of a HD system!



-Down converting a signal produces approximately no lag. It's a negligible amount like upconverting on the 360.



-interlaced and progressive do not affect lag in down converting. It matters in upconverting from i to p but not p to i.





Wii Specific Information:



-The Wii's native resolution is 480p.



-The Wii can play on SDTVs with no lag due to a 480p>480i conversion.



-A TV with a native resolution higher than 480p (either 720p or 1080p) have to upconvert the Wii's native resolution of 480p. TVs do not have hardware acceleration processors like the 360, and THIS is the source of all noticeable lag.



-When you use composite cables on your Wii, your forcing your Wii to downgrade the signal first to 480i since 480p can not be carried over a composite cable.



-When using composite cables with say a 1080p TV, its converting from 480i > 1080p. Remember when I said i > p conversion makes more lag? This is the prime example. Using composite cables on a HDTV suck. Theres not only resolution upconvert lag, but also i>p conversion lag. When using Wii component cables your converting 480p to 1080p, which while still rough, is a lot better than 480i > 1080p. This way your not worrying about changing the lines of video displayed, and just dealing with resolution instead.





Other Sources of Lag:



-Wired 1st party cube controllers have no lag. 3rd party ones shouldn't, but its possible they are made terribly.

-Wireless controllers if made well will have negligible lag, such as a wavebird controller or wii remotes. Nearly any 3rd party controller (except BIG name ones like logitech) will lag. Don't get 3rd party gamestop controller. yuk.



Steps Companies Have Done To Help Fix The Problem:



-Smash is a unpredictable game, so no lag fix can be made. Guitar Hero is a predictable game, as all notes are layed out, so it can essentially play the game before you see it.

-New TVs are being made with Game modes such as some of the Sharp Aquos TV's. These do help with lag. The reason? Because they are equipped with better processors to handle the upconversion to do it faster. Are they perfect right now? It's possible they are near perfect if using a component cable and the game mode is enabled. I have yet to use one of these TVs, but I have heard good things. I've heard that you can walk into best buy with a gamecube and stuff and hook it up to one of their display TVs if you want to test out the lag before you buy it. afterall, they want your business, so its a chance for them to sell you a tv. try it, dont be dissapointed after you buy it. The bad part of these new "lag-free" TVs, they are freicken expensive. The 42" Sharp AQUOS for gaming is about $1500. Other 42" HDTVs? Under a grand and as low as $600 on special deals like Black Friday.

-Once TVs get stronger and stronger processors for upconverting once the price isnt as bad for manufacturing costs, we can have lag free HDTVs.





Component Cables and Lag:



-I touched on it briefly earlier that component cables only matter in lag when upconverting to a HDTV. If you have an EDTV, or even a component capable SDTV, using component cables does not reduce lag as it's already unnoticeable. Component cables mainly just make the game look like its running 60fps, as when its running interlaced, you only see 30 lines every frame, however you are not missing information since the video is still updated every frame.



The Projection/CRT/LCD/Plasma debate:



-Projection TVs, or projectors: These lag a lot. Why? It's not just broadcasting the image to a screen internally, but sending it across an empty area. Also, these aren't reccomended for great gaming experiences as it's very hard to get good color on them and it normally appears to be washed out.

-CRT: CRT TV's have no additional lag, and no ghosting. They have the best color of any TV but are also the biggest and heaviest.

-LCD and Plasma. These kinds of TVs have been around for a while and they used to lag a lot. If you've gotten one of these TVs anytime recently, lag is not an issue due to screen type. A 480p native LCD screen should perform the same as a 480p native CRT. (I don't think they make native 480p Plasmas). What people mistake for lag on these two types of TVs are ghosting. Ghosting is essentially seeing what used to be on the screen. Say you're Captain Falcon on FD and you run across the stage with a bunny hood. You're moving really fast and the refresh rate of the LCD or Plasma can't keep up with him (lol). It will almost look like a trail of Falcons is running behind him, kind of like in old cartoons when Sonic would run around. This is all thanks to response time, which barely has an effect on lag, and is more for ghosting. Plasmas are notorious for having terrible ghosting (believe me, it's bad) but recent LCDs have just about gotten rid of the ghosting problem. Why do people like Plasma TVs then? They're as thin as LCDs and around the same price, but have extremely superior color quality and contrast.





So You're Buying a New TV?



-You want a lag free experience? Ok buy one of these TVs:

a. SDTV. Your game will look like crap, but it won't lag at all. The screens are normally a little smaller and are common around the 19-27 range. They are getting harder to find.

b. EDTV. These are actually some of the hardest TVs to find nowadays and were common when HD was first starting. EDTVs can normally display 1080i when the 480p signal was upconverted from the source. This will play Wii with amazing picture quality and 0 lag. This will play 360 in an HD rez, but not in progressive scan. This TV is a waste though if you're looking for a full PS3 experience.

c. HDTV. If you want no lag, you have to buy a HDTV that is made for gaming. Make sure it has a gaming mode that is advertised to be lag free. There is no 100% guarantee yet that there isn't any lag, but from what I've heard they do pretty good. Any HDTV that isn't optimized for gaming will run LAGGY.







There, does that solve the lag debate? Any questions? Ask. There shouldn't be any haha



What do I own?

I said it once in there that I have a CRT EDTV. It's 480p native 27" fullscreen TV that can display 1080i. My 360 looks nice in 1080i, and I haven't used a PS3 on my TV, but if I did it would be in 480p, essentially turning the big name HD console into a SD console. My Wii and Cube have component cables and run in progressive scan whenever possible. The picture is freicken amazing and there is absolutely no lag. I didn't even mean to get this TV for smash. I got it about 4 years ago when HDTVs were pretty much brand new. It was advertised as an HDTV even though it's an EDTV. I'm looking to upgrade to a gaming optimized HDTV, but I need a lot more cash.





EDIT:

Extra Notes (in case I forgot to touch on a certain subject earlier)

-Not all EDTVs are 1080i compatible like mine I was talking about. However if you're just buying one now, chances are that it is compatible considering mine is and its like 3-4 years old.