In an interview with Yahoo Global News Anchor Katie Couric Tuesday, former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean called Donald Trump an “ignoramus” and said he thinks the 2016 presidential election should be a “wakeup call to Washington.”

Couric kicked off her conversation with the former Democratic National Committee chairman and past presidential candidate by noting that “Hillary Clinton’s lead has grown to double digits since the release of that vulgar Donald Trump tape on Friday.”

Yet despite the lewd tape, which has driven several leading Republicans — including House Speaker Paul Ryan — to distance themselves from their party’s presidential nominee, Couric pointed out, many of Trump’s core supporters are sticking with him.

“It seems their hatred, disdain, dislike of Hillary Clinton trumps virtually anything he does,” she said.

Dean agreed, and suggested that most of Trump’s supporters probably don’t even expect him to follow through on any of his campaign promises.

“They know damn well Donald Trump’s not gonna put up a wall,” he said. “And they know damn well if he does, the Mexicans certainly aren’t going to pay for it.”

In fact, Dean continued, “I suspect they know that Donald Trump doesn’t know anything about public policy. They don’t care.”

For Trump’s base which, Dean noted, largely represents the segment of the U.S. population who’ve been “left behind by globalization,” this election is about “giving the middle finger to Washington.”

“I get it,” he added. “Washington is the last place in America that has any idea what’s going on.”

Why then, Couric asked, should we elect a president who’s been in Washington for as long as Hillary Clinton?

“Because we have no choice,” Dean said. “Donald Trump is an ignoramus.”

“I don’t blame people for being mad,” he said, but “voting for Donald Trump makes no sense.”

While Clinton herself has admitted that she’s not nearly the politician her husband and Barack Obama are, Dean argued that there’s more to politics than being a great speaker.

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“I don’t think it’s a bad idea to have a technician who really gets it and listens, rather than somebody who just makes a fantastic speech and draws people to them,” he said. “It would be great if we had a charismatic person who wanted to do all that stuff. Maybe it’s time we had a really good manager who wants to do something about the tough problems nobody else wants to talk about.”

So much has happened in the last two weeks that the first presidential debate seems almost like a distant memory. But Dean’s controversial tweet, suggesting that Trump’s debate night sniffles might be signs of cocaine use, won’t soon be forgotten.

Notice Trump sniffing all the time. Coke user? — Howard Dean (@GovHowardDean) September 27, 2016





“I did it on purpose so I’d be asked this by people like you,” Dean told Couric, reiterating the argument he made in the wake of last month’s debate, that the tweet was meant to call out the media for its coverage of Trump’s presidential campaign.

“I used innuendo to hint that Donald Trump had done something wrong, and that wasn’t a nice thing to do and it wasn’t the right thing to do,” he said.

But while “I’m not proud of it,” Dean said, “I did it because the press has given Donald Trump a free ride for 15 months and let him use innuendo in every circumstance.”

The media let Trump “get away with stuff they don’t let anybody, including me, get away with,” because, he argued, “he was a showman, he was great for the ratings.”

Still, considering first lady Michelle Obama’s mantra that “when they go low, we go high,” Couric asked, was it really appropriate to publicly suggest that the Republican presidential nominee may have been on drugs at the first presidential debate?

“I think that’s great,” Dean said. “But sometimes when you’re in a knife fight with a gutter sniper you have to retort in kind.”