EDIT: edited out condescending remarks



Re: Reddit stagelist discussion, I didn't agree with the original linked post and there's issues with it but they're explained other places

My basic philosophy for stagelists is that counterpicks are fun.

A larger stagelist allows for more intricacies and options in matchups and I think creates more interesting gameplay overall and I don't see anything inherently wrong with having multiple bans (3+) IF THERE'S A TIME LIMIT

Additionally, having a choice between various slightly beneficial counterpicks allows for even more interesting picks based not only on matchup, but on playstyles and other aspects or mindgames.



"but magikarp mental games with stage select detract from actual smash"



No they don't. They might force you out of your comfort zone but they make you adapt to different playstyles and settings, making you a better smasher overall and also proving which player is more well-rounded.

That being said, I'm not going to advocate any super jank stages being made legal a la delfino or vanilla ps1.



anyway that being said here's what I like with my totally uninformed opinion:

STARTERS (with standard 1-2-2-1 banning system)

Smashville (basically the most neutral stage, a combination between basic flat ground but also has the occasional platform to interrupt juggles)

Battlefield (nobody can be angry with nilla battlefield)

PS2 (aside from missle cancel spam, the two platform setup is a good balance between triplat and fd)

Redesigned Norfair (variant on 2 platform setup)

FoD (transfers between fd flat setup and triplat)



Notice FD is not a starter, as it's basically a cp in melee as is, and factoring in pm juggles and cgs, having interrupting platforms I think is necessary for a starter.



COUNTERPICKS (4 BANS but a one minute time limit [or smaller] on bans [ideally, 30 seconds max for bans and 30 seconds for picking])

GHZ (a cp and not a starter because of walls and how close the low blastzone is also because I don't like how overwhelmingly green it is, it actually bothers me)

Dreamland (in my opinion, too large to be a starter, also wind, although I really like the spaced triplat setup)

Yoshi's melee (too small to be a starter)

Yoshi's brawl (I feel like having the one large central plat is not the most balanced setup but it's still a legit stage especially now that the support ghosts are timed and have shyguys)

FD (no items fox only)

Wario's (super unique setup and small stage/blastzones make it an already-often-used cp)

Lylat (I hate this stage personally but it's a decent cp)

Skyworld (I also hate this stage but I play on it because it's good for weegee and it's a strong cp for some people so I want to have it in there, even if it gets banned often it offers options. The most questionable thing about this stage is the difficulty in telling where the platforms actually are in the clouds)

Distant Planet (this stage got more legit, it's not overwhelmingly large like rumble falls used to be, and it has a unique tiered platform setup which I think warrants its inclusion as an option)

Dracula's (this is a pretty contentious stage but I think it's fine. it has walls, a few moving platforms, and largish blastzones which means it definitely helps some characters which makes it a decent counterpick but not so much so that it should be banned)

Metal Cavern (This stage is the reason I made this list, because I love this stage and too many people say it's not legal. It has little walls you can walljump off, it has a monoplat setup, and the bumpy ground allows for some shenanigans with bouncing projectiles, and it's an overall small stage. It's definitely quirky but nothing that is gamebreakingly jank. Additionally, it's a pretty good stage for Ganon and with the increase of Ganon in popularity having this stage in rotation is a decent move, as Ganon is still a painfully mid-tier character and having this strong counterpick will either benefit Ganon directly if he plays on here or benefit him indirectly if their opponent bans it, leaving other slightly Ganon-favored stages open)

Skyloft (this is probably my most questionable inclusion. It's pretty quirky, kinda like metal cavern with the monoplat on one side and the bent floor. The only really questionable thing is the lack of visibility due to the walls and posts and whatnot)



Conditional counterpicks

ps1 (if you use the balanced version which I think is in tkbreezy's pack)

pictochat (if there's a version with that fixed left ledge [pmbr pls fix that])



The reason for four bans is because there's 12 counterpick stages. Assuming that of the twelve stages, about a third of them are more heavily biased towards the counterpicker, about a third are more heavily biased towards the banner, the rest are slightly biased to one party or the other or essentially neutral, including the starters.



As for the people who just want to play smash and don't want stagelists with frills, or the gamification of stage selection, that's why there's the time limit. It speeds things up and prevents over-analyzing the counterpicks. But, if you just want to play smash, and your opponent wants to play smash, you'll just go to Smashville anyway.

However, personally I believe that a larger stage list is better, and dropping stages from your stage list simply because people don't play it often is the worst sort of popularity contest. Additionally, a stage that is unpopular is actually a better counterpick because people are unused to it.



tl;dr: Larger stagelists allow for more variety in how matchups are played as well as being more interesting in general. 5 starters, 1-2-2-1 banning, 12 counterpicks with 4 bans and a time limit for banning/selection.