Marvel’s Head of Visual Development, Ryan Meinerding, recently discussed just how much thought goes into every version of a character’s movie looks, specifically focusing on the many incarnations of Captain America and Bucky Barnes.

Giving an exclusive interview to CBR, Ryan Meinerding, takes us through the visual development of Captain America and Bucky Barnes, shedding light on just how much every detail counts.

Starting with Captain America, Meinerding had insights to share on every movie look.

On Captain America: The First Avenger:

“When we started with Captain America, you know, his first costume was his USO suit, and he definitely thought of that as something he hated, where he was meant to be a symbol, but he should also be out fighting. So when he went out to rescue the Howling Commandos, he put on things that he thought would make him look more like a soldier. He kind of covered up… he was ashamed of the symbol. Walking back and sort of looking at the value being a symbol and a soldier kind of led us into the hero’s suit at the end of The First Avenger.”

Indeed, the garish cut and color of the earliest incarnation of Captain America’s suit create a cringing kind of feeling that brings the audience right into the depth of the story. We have both empathy for the character, and at the same time, experience Steve Rogers’ desire to just rip off that uniform.

Captain America can never truly leave behind his symbolic value, but his suit, much like his role, transforms from a useless show piece to the outfit of a soldier. And with it, our understanding of the character and his journey evolves, as well.

On The Avengers:

“And then, of course, going into Avengers, Phil Coulson designs that kind of suit again, throwing him back into the world of being only a symbol in a lot of ways.”

Although by the end of First Avenger, Steve has managed to balance symbolism and action, in Avengers, he is once again a man out of time, trying to understand where exactly his role lies. The seeming incongruence of the suit and the man reflect the narrative tension and remind the audience that while Captain America has returned, Steve Rogers is still trying to find his place.

On Captain America: Winter Soldier:

“He [Captain America] says, I’m now a part of contemporary America, I’m going to be wearing a stealth suit, because I’m going on stealth missions, which is where the Super Solider stealth costume came from. Getting to see the sort of retro-Smithsonian suit at the end of that movie was also sort of a throwback to be able to have Bucky recognize him.”

It makes sense that the “stealth suit” is by far Chris Evans’s favorite suit, because Meinerding sees it as the first uniform Steve Rogers chooses for himself, a nod to his new home and modernity. But much like the recurring theme in Cap’s storyline, especially in Winter Soldier, the past is never far behind, and the character can leave neither it, nor its trappings behind.

Meinerding’s note about Bucky being able to recognize Steve more easily in his World War II suit is also a great easter egg for fans and truly reflects the MCU’s commitment to narrative and detail.

On Avengers: Age of Ultron and Captain America: Civil War:

“We just started allowing him to kind of have the symbols seep back into his costume with the red, white and blue for Avengers 2 and into Civil War as well.”

As Captain America’s story progresses, he becomes more comfortable with the colors that choose him. But, the balance is not long lived.

On Avengers: Infinity War:

“Essentially at the end of Civil War, when he feels that he’s not Captain America again, [he’s] trying to basically still keep the protective qualities of that suit but rip off every emblem that allowed him to be a symbol.”

Although Steve Rogers gives up his shield and status in Civil War, in Infinity War he is as driven as ever to be a soldier and a hero. Though he loses the symbolic value of his role, he continues to fight for what he believes in. The suit might be dirty, torn, and unadorned, but it does its job — and so does Steve.

In sum, Meinerding had this to say, very nicely summarizing all his insights.

“Everything that Cap wears is a symbol of something, whether he’s wearing it or not wearing it. Playing with that at every step of the way is a lot of fun.”

Bonus: Bucky Barnes

On Bucky, Meinerding was a bit more brief, but shared:

“Bucky, you know, as well the first costume that I designed for him in First Avenger, was really trying to be just an homage to his look from the comics…And then transitioning from that to the bad guy in Winter Soldier, you know, the Russos were really interested in having him be sort of the most iconic bad guy he could be. They wanted him to be like Darth Vader of that movie.”

A couple of iconic looks to be sure, but for Meinerding the true joy lies in undoing the villain and bringing Bucky to a whole new place in his life.

“Seeing him gradually step away from that through the different progressions of the films has been another joy. To have him end up at a place where people call him, even though they love him as Winter Soldier, they’re back to calling him Bucky, which is a really great thing.”

From leather and knives to Wakandan blankets, Bucky’s outfits definitely help bring him back to life. We can only hope we get to see what he’ll be wearing in Avengers 4.