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Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Bombay Posts: 58,387 Thanked: 170,619 Times

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So, are they fun to drive?

ICE-powered cars & electric cars offer different kinds of fun. It's like comparing Salman Khan's Bajrangi Bhaijaan and Al Pacino's Scarface. Or Mumbai's street pav bhaji & Yauatcha's dumplings. Both are extremely different, yet both are extremely enjoyable.



It also depends on the car & kind of road. I had an absolute blast in the F-A-S-T Model 3 dual-motor. On the other hand, the Audi E-Tron was a cruiser that's good at luxury, but not fun to drive at all. What about the Kona? Well, it's more fun than an i20, but not a similarly-priced Jeep Compass on the open road. Just like we see in ICE (internal combustion engine) cars, in EVs too, there will be fun to drive cars as well as boring cars.



Elaborating some more on the fun-to-drive aspect that is so important to us BHPians. If you buy a powerful EV, you'll have fun on your daily commute for sure, thanks to the instant & additive torque (it's M-A-D in powerful EVs...will blow your mind), as well as the regenerative braking (engine-braking fans like me will love this). Powerful EVs like the higher-end Teslas accelerate so hard that you are pinned to your seat (0 - 100 under 3 seconds). And the mid-range is relentless!!! I have experienced that kind of punch only in supercars, ///Ms & AMGs. On the other hand, on my favourite mountain road, there is no way an EV will ever come close to a nice mechanical car with a conventional ICE engine and its redlining + downshifting + sounds + mechanical feel etc. If I intend to fly down the 1-way Igatpuri ghat, give me a petrol / diesel over an EV any day. Period.



While I had the Tesla, I'd rented the Cayman for a day and oh boy, it was more fun to drive (despite being slower than the Tesla). I drove the Audi E-Tron and a Corvette within days of each other, and the Vette felt far much more amazing in terms of feel.



Summary = Fast EVs can be as much fun in the city & during calm cruising on expressways. But there is no contest on highways, mountain roads & race tracks. Things might change - who knows? Even Porsche is betting on it with the recently introduced 750-horsepower Taycan (







Did you miss the exhaust, engine & mechanical sounds?

Absolutely yes when driving hard, not at all when cruising or in the city. EVs are way too silent for the enthusiast (mass market will prefer the silence though). Expect performance cars to come out with fake sounds to compensate.



Must add that, because there is absolutely no engine noise in EVs, other noises are more noticeable (e.g. road or tyre noise).







Did you suffer range anxiety in the city?

Range anxiety is overrated. For one, 95% of Indians commute less than 60 km a day and this distance is easily covered even by the basic E2O. The more accomplished EVs today offer a driving range of 250 - 500 km which is enough for everyone, unless you do Bombay-Goa every day.



Battery tech is fast progressing. In 3 to 4 years, we'll see EVs offering 750 - 1000 km ranges. In fact, I foresee manufacturers selling different battery capacities on the same model, with many customers choosing the lower capacity battery of say a ~400 km range at a lesser price, as they don't need the 1000 km capacity.



BTW, "kitna deti hai" is ingrained in Indian DNA (



Did you suffer range anxiety on the highway?

Yes, it's a very valid point, especially in India where there are no public charging facilities & the power supply in rural areas suffers frequent outages.



The highway FE of normal ICE cars is 50 – 100% more than the city FE. With EVs - believe it or not - the range is more or less the same as the city. If you constantly cruise at 120 kmph, the range can actually be lower than the city! Reason = the nature of electric power, physics, no regen braking, single gear drivetrain etc. This point *might* change though as some manufacturers are planning EVs with 2 or more gears (Porsche Taycan already has two ratios at the rear). And I mention again, 1000 km batteries are coming which will make this highway-range point irrelevant in 5 years.



See this Tesla chart (





Here's a real-world example. At the time of starting my highway trip, the Kona told me I'm good for 304 km:





Drove on empty Mumbai roads in the early morning (~35 km) and an arrow-straight expressway (~35 km) in a mix of "eco" & "comfort" modes, cruising at 100 kmph. Not engaged "sport" yet. Despite driving just 70 km on empty roads, the range dropped by 96 km! In a petrol or diesel car, the FE would have increased by 50 - 100% for these exact driving conditions:





Round-trip range (70% highway, 30% city) of ~280 km is almost the same as 100% city driving. This was a mix of eco + comfort + sport modes, as well as easy cruising + hard cornering + calm driving + short high speed bursts (in short, the perfect Indian mix):





EVs will require more planning, right?

You bet. Biggest difference is that you can't be careless. Unlike a petrol or diesel car that you can top up anywhere in India - even a village - in 5 minutes or less, you can't do the same with an EV. You'll need to be more particular. Personally, I would simply ensure that I never let the charge of my electric car go below 25% in the city (I do the same with my petrol / diesel tanks). You can’t simply forget to charge the car and then decide to go to the other end of town in the morning. For highway runs, you'll have to do a lot of calculations & ensure there's a reliable power socket at the destination.



How do I charge, dude?

That's a fantastic question, because 90% of India parks on the street. Where the heck are they going to charge their EVs? If you don't have a parking spot in your building + the possibility of a charging socket added to it, then an EV is not for you. Period. This will change in the future with higher capacity batteries, charging becoming common-place in parking spots (public + corporate + malls + street parking etc.) and battery swapping tech.



As for me, I'm getting a charging point installed in my building soon. Reason = all the test-drive cars that are headed our way. The cost of installing a power socket isn't expensive at all (three-phase power is recommended), but yes, you need the availability of a connection. If you live in a society, there would be permissions to procure which you may or may not get.



Charging the Kona in my building, via a socket in my garage. Soon, I'm going to get a proper charger installed as I expect several EV media cars in the next 1 - 2 years. Manufacturers are offering the media free charger installations, but Team-BHP isn't one to take such freebies from anyone:





Was it convenient to charge?

Hell, yeah! When you sleep, you charge. Most of us already follow this practice for our mobile phones. I don't know about you, but I sleep for a solid 7 - 8 hours and that's good enough to charge any EV. At my friend's place in Boston, we used to charge the Tesla overnight once in 5 days or so. In terms of convenience & simplicity, it scores over a trip to the petrol pump for sure.



Right now, I'm saying "if you sleep, you charge". In 5 - 10 years, it'll equally be pertinent to say "if you park, you charge". I saw this happening in the USA and it'll happen in India too. EV chargers will be everywhere = highway food courts, shopping malls, office parking spots, residential parking complexes, public parking lots etc.



Can the EV be the only car of the house?

Not for me, no. India has zero charging infrastructure and I love my highway road-trips way too much. Unless you buy a high performance EV, they aren't as fun to drive as the enthusiast cars either. Plus, I'm worried about niggles & issues in the early batches of cars. Most brands' initial rounds of EVs will come laden with problems. It's a new world for them & you will be their guinea pig.



That said, I am ready to welcome an EV as the 2nd or 3rd car of the house today, if the need for a city commuter arises. It'll be the perfect replacement for my Sunny.



I love my high-revving and gear-shifting way too much. It could be different for someone who intends to drive only in the city + has a parking spot with a power socket.



Why are they so expensive?

It's typical of any new game-changing technology. Check out the prices of early mobile phones & calling charges in the 1990s! With time, EVs will become as cheap as conventionally-powered cars. Eventually, I reckon they'll become cheaper as these are basically simpler machines. The way China is investing in electric cars, I expect them to become the world's supplier of EV components (wish India thought in such a strategic & long-term manner).



In my opinion, this top-down strategy works for EVs. Models like the Tesla, Kona, E-Tron etc. might be super expensive, but they are top-class products that prove electric cars can be fast, efficient & practical. On the other hand, the bottom-up strategy won't work as the cheaper segments are full of rubbish EVs. If you ask me frankly, depressing EVs like the Reva, e-Verito, Tigor EV etc. give EVs a bad name in India -







Are they cheap to run?

Not only are they cheap, but they are C-H-E-A-P. Based on current electricity rates, the running cost works out to a paltry 0.8 - 1.1 rupees / km. I did Mumbai – Pawna – Mumbai in just 220 bucks. The cost is so insignificant that it'll be a rounding off error for most households. Heck, I paid more in tolls than I did for the electric charge.



The ultimate anti-oil machine. No petrol pumps needed, and unmatched cost of running:





What about maintenance costs?



Scheduled services will be super short & cheap as there's hardly anything to do! No oil changes, no filters, no spark plugs, far less mechanical parts and software updates which are delivered over-the-air. Guess just wheel balancing, some greasing and that kind of stuff.



For the typical car owner who changes his rides every 5 years, EVs might be cheaper to maintain. Don't know about the long-term though. Some batteries will be of good quality (many Teslas are doing 7+ years on the original battery), while some might fail prematurely (some Reva owners were hit with a Rs 60k battery bill after 3 years). Long battery warranties are becoming commonplace in the EV world - Hyundai is offering an 8 year warranty on the Kona's battery. Nevertheless, if you own an 8 – 10 year old EV, you should be prepared to get a new battery.



Also remember that, as batteries age, their range & performance will drop.



Lastly, because this technology is brand new, I expect a lot of 1st-gen EVs from manufacturers to have niggles & problems. Be sure to take the longest extended warranty possible. ICE engine'd cars have been around for a century, but Tata & Mahindra still can't build them reliably (our demo Harrier & XUV300 had problems). Shudder to think what their initial lot of EVs will be like.



What about performance at the top-end?

Based on what I hear, they start losing steam after 130 - 160 kmph (depending on the EV), as compared to powerful ICE cars that keep on accelerating. If you're going to drive it on the Buddh track, this is something you should check on. Some guys on USA forums were comparing track notes on the Model S vs Supercars and apparently, the Supercars had far superior top-ends.



Closer to home, the Kona maxed out @ 162 kmph (indicated) on our track day @ Buddh.



So, just how environment-friendly are EVs actually?

The jury is still out on that, simply because 75% of India's electricity is generated from polluting coal plants. That said, there is absolutely no doubt that EVs will lead to cleaner urban cities (last I checked, there were no coal plants in proper Bombay / Delhi / Bangalore etc.). I think of it as garbage = instead of having the trash (pollution) all around my house (or city), I'd rather relegate it to one corner of my house (or country) in a trash can.







Can I modify it?

Typical BHPian question . Yes, absolutely. If anything, modifications for more power will be super easy as EVs depend a lot more on software (



I also feel there will be "commoditization" of the crucial components, similar to how SSDs, RAM & CPUs are in computers. You'll be able to tweak & swap as needed. An 8-lakh rupee hatchback that can do 0 - 100 in 6 seconds will be far easier in the electric world, than the ICE world. Performance will become cheap & easily accessible in the world of electric cars (akin to Oppo phones today).



What do passengers & family members think of EVs?

Make no mistake, EVs are going mainstream. Other than the silence & lack of engine noise, my family thought that the Kona is just like a regular car. Of course, when something is new, it's natural to have a fear of the unknown. Mom asked me whether it’s "safe" to take on the highway. And everyone unfailingly asked “how many km on a charge? Will we reach Pawna?”.



EVs wear green plates which I think is a BRILLIANT move by the government (everywhere. Even in a small village like Pawna, these dudes in a Scorpio stopped to ask about the electric car:

ICE-powered cars & electric cars offer different kinds of fun. It's like comparing Salman Khan's Bajrangi Bhaijaan and Al Pacino's Scarface. Or Mumbai's street pav bhaji & Yauatcha's dumplings. Both are extremely different, yet both are extremely enjoyable.It also depends on the car & kind of road. I had an absolute blast in the F-A-S-T Model 3 dual-motor. On the other hand, the Audi E-Tron was a cruiser that's good at luxury, but not fun to drive at all. What about the Kona? Well, it's more fun than an i20, but not a similarly-priced Jeep Compass on the open road. Just like we see in ICE () cars, in EVs too, there will be fun to drive cars as well as boring cars.Elaborating some more on the fun-to-drive aspect that is so important to us BHPians. If you buy a powerful EV, you'll have fun on your daily commute for sure, thanks to the instant & additive torque (), as well as the regenerative braking (engine-braking fans like me will love this). Powerful EVs like the higher-end Teslas accelerate so hard that you are pinned to your seat (0 - 100 under 3 seconds). And the mid-range is relentless!!! I have experienced that kind of punch only in supercars, ///Ms & AMGs. On the other hand, on my favourite mountain road, there is no way an EV will ever come close to a nice mechanical car with a conventional ICE engine and its redlining + downshifting + sounds + mechanical feel etc. If I intend to fly down the 1-way Igatpuri ghat, give me a petrol / diesel over an EV any day. Period.While I had the Tesla, I'd rented the Cayman for a day and oh boy, it was more fun to drive (despite being slower than the Tesla). I drove the Audi E-Tron and a Corvette within days of each other, and the Vette felt far much more amazing in terms of feel.Summary = Fast EVs can be as much fun in the city & during calm cruising on expressways. But there is no contest on highways, mountain roads & race tracks. Things might change - who knows? Even Porsche is betting on it with the recently introduced 750-horsepower Taycan ( more info ). Of course, just like regular cars, not all EVs will be fun to drive. A majority will be tuned for economy & commuting.Absolutely yes when driving hard, not at all when cruising or in the city. EVs are way too silent for the enthusiast (mass market will prefer the silence though). Expect performance cars to come out with fake sounds to compensate.Must add that, because there is absolutely no engine noise in EVs, other noises are more noticeable (e.g. road or tyre noise).Range anxiety is overrated. For one, 95% of Indians commute less than 60 km a day and this distance is easily covered even by the basic E2O. The more accomplished EVs today offer a driving range of 250 - 500 km which is enough for everyone, unless you do Bombay-Goa every day.Battery tech is fast progressing. In 3 to 4 years, we'll see EVs offering 750 - 1000 km ranges. In fact, I foresee manufacturers selling different battery capacities on the same model, with many customers choosing the lower capacity battery of say a ~400 km range at a lesser price, as they don't need the 1000 km capacity.BTW, "kitna deti hai" is ingrained in Indian DNA ( related video ). Everywhere I drove the Kona, the first question asked by the public was inevitably "what is the range on a full charge"?Yes, it's a very valid point, especially in India where there are no public charging facilities & the power supply in rural areas suffers frequent outages.The highway FE of normal ICE cars is 50 – 100% more than the city FE. With EVs -- the range is more or less the same as the city. If you constantly cruise at 120 kmph, the range canthan the city! Reason = the nature of electric power, physics, no regen braking, single gear drivetrain etc. This point *might* change though as some manufacturers are planning EVs with 2 or more gears (Porsche Taycan already has two ratios at the rear). And I mention again, 1000 km batteries are coming which will make this highway-range point irrelevant in 5 years.See this Tesla chart ( source ) and how drastically the range drops as you move from 90 to 120 kmph:Here's a real-world example. At the time of starting my highway trip, the Kona told me I'm good for 304 km:Drove on empty Mumbai roads in the early morning (~35 km) and an arrow-straight expressway (~35 km) in a mix of "eco" & "comfort" modes, cruising at 100 kmph. Not engaged "sport" yet. Despite driving just 70 km on empty roads, the range dropped by 96 km! In a petrol or diesel car, the FE would have increased by 50 - 100% for these exact driving conditions:Round-trip range (70% highway, 30% city) of ~280 km is almost the same as 100% city driving. This was a mix of eco + comfort + sport modes, as well as easy cruising + hard cornering + calm driving + short high speed bursts (in short, the perfect Indian mix):You bet. Biggest difference is that you can't be careless. Unlike a petrol or diesel car that you can top up anywhere in India -- in 5 minutes or less, you can't do the same with an EV. You'll need to be more particular. Personally, I would simply ensure that I never let the charge of my electric car go below 25% in the city (I do the same with my petrol / diesel tanks). You can’t simply forget to charge the car and then decide to go to the other end of town in the morning. For highway runs, you'll have to do a lot of calculations & ensure there's a reliable power socket at the destination.That's a fantastic question, because 90% of India parks on the street. Where the heck are they going to charge their EVs? If you don't have a parking spot in your building + the possibility of a charging socket added to it, then an EV is not for you. Period. This will change in the future with higher capacity batteries, charging becoming common-place in parking spots (public + corporate + malls + street parking etc.) and battery swapping tech.As for me, I'm getting a charging point installed in my building soon. Reason = all the test-drive cars that are headed our way. The cost of installing a power socket isn't expensive at all (three-phase power is recommended), but yes, you need the availability of a connection. If you live in a society, there would be permissions to procure which you may or may not get.Charging the Kona in my building, via a socket in my garage. Soon, I'm going to get a proper charger installed as I expect several EV media cars in the next 1 - 2 years. Manufacturers are offering the media free charger installations, but Team-BHP isn't one to take such freebies from anyone:Hell, yeah! When you sleep, you charge. Most of us already follow this practice for our mobile phones. I don't know about you, but I sleep for a solid 7 - 8 hours and that's good enough to charge any EV. At my friend's place in Boston, we used to charge the Tesla overnight once in 5 days or so. In terms of convenience & simplicity, it scores over a trip to the petrol pump for sure.Right now, I'm saying "if you sleep, you charge". In 5 - 10 years, it'll equally be pertinent to say "if you park, you charge". I saw this happening in the USA and it'll happen in India too. EV chargers will be everywhere = highway food courts, shopping malls, office parking spots, residential parking complexes, public parking lots etc.Not for me, no. India has zero charging infrastructure and I love my highway road-trips way too much. Unless you buy a high performance EV, they aren't as fun to drive as the enthusiast cars either. Plus, I'm worried about niggles & issues in the early batches of cars. Most brands' initial rounds of EVs will come laden with problems. It's a new world for them & you will be their guinea pig.That said, I am ready to welcome an EV as the 2nd or 3rd car of the house today, if the need for a city commuter arises. It'll be the perfect replacement for my Sunny.I love my high-revving and gear-shifting way too much. It could be different for someone who intends to drive only in the city + has a parking spot with a power socket.It's typical of any new game-changing technology. Check out the prices of early mobile phones & calling charges in the 1990s! With time, EVs will become as cheap as conventionally-powered cars. Eventually, I reckon they'll become cheaper as these are basically simpler machines. The way China is investing in electric cars, I expect them to become the world's supplier of EV components ().In my opinion, this top-down strategy works for EVs. Models like the Tesla, Kona, E-Tron etc. might be super expensive, but they are top-class products that prove electric cars can be fast, efficient & practical. On the other hand, the bottom-up strategy won't work as the cheaper segments are full of rubbish EVs. If you ask me frankly, depressing EVs like the Reva, e-Verito, Tigor EV etc. give EVs a bad name in India - related thread . These horrible cars kill the reputation of EVs!Not only are they cheap, but they are C-H-E-A-P. Based on current electricity rates, the running cost works out to a paltry 0.8 - 1.1 rupees / km. I did Mumbai – Pawna – Mumbai in just 220 bucks. The cost is so insignificant that it'll be a rounding off error for most households. Heck, I paid more in tolls than I did for the electric charge.The ultimate anti-oil machine. No petrol pumps needed, and unmatched cost of running:Scheduled services will be super short & cheap as there's hardly anything to do! No oil changes, no filters, no spark plugs, far less mechanical parts and software updates which are delivered over-the-air. Guess just wheel balancing, some greasing and that kind of stuff.For the typical car owner who changes his rides every 5 years, EVs might be cheaper to maintain. Don't know about the long-term though. Some batteries will be of good quality (many Teslas are doing 7+ years on the original battery), while some might fail prematurely (some Reva owners were hit with a Rs 60k battery bill after 3 years). Long battery warranties are becoming commonplace in the EV world - Hyundai is offering an 8 year warranty on the Kona's battery. Nevertheless, if you own an 8 – 10 year old EV, you should be prepared to get a new battery.Also remember that, as batteries age, their range & performance will drop.Lastly, because this technology is brand new, I expect a lot of 1st-gen EVs from manufacturers to have niggles & problems. Be sure to take the longest extended warranty possible. ICE engine'd cars have been around for a century, but Tata & Mahindra still can't build them reliably (our demo Harrier & XUV300 had problems). Shudder to think what their initial lot of EVs will be like.Based on what I hear, they start losing steam after 130 - 160 kmph (depending on the EV), as compared to powerful ICE cars that keep on accelerating. If you're going to drive it on the Buddh track, this is something you should check on. Some guys on USA forums were comparing track notes on the Model S vs Supercars and apparently, the Supercars had far superior top-ends.Closer to home, the Kona maxed out @ 162 kmph (indicated) on our track day @ Buddh.The jury is still out on that, simply because 75% of India's electricity is generated from polluting coal plants. That said, there is absolutely no doubt that EVs will lead to cleaner urban cities (). I think of it as garbage = instead of having the trash (pollution) all around my house (or city), I'd rather relegate it to one corner of my house (or country) in a trash can.Typical BHPian question. Yes, absolutely. If anything, modifications for more power will be super easy as EVs depend a lot more on software ( here's a nice article on a 500+ BHP Tesla). Further, just like smartphones & computers, EV builds will eventually become very customisable, even from the factory. You'll be able to pick different capacity motors, batteries, controllers, driving modes, single / dual / more motors, software add-ons etc. for the same model. Tesla is already doing a lot of this.I also feel there will be "commoditization" of the crucial components, similar to how SSDs, RAM & CPUs are in computers. You'll be able to tweak & swap as needed. An 8-lakh rupee hatchback that can do 0 - 100 in 6 seconds will be far easier in the electric world, than the ICE world.(akin to Oppo phones today).Make no mistake, EVs are going mainstream. Other than the silence & lack of engine noise, my family thought that the Kona is just like a regular car. Of course, when something is new, it's natural to have a fear of the unknown. Mom asked me whether it’s "safe" to take on the highway. And everyone unfailingly asked “how many km on a charge? Will we reach Pawna?”.EVs wear green plates which I think is a BRILLIANT move by the government ( related thread ). These green plates have a certain snob appeal and come with bragging rights. The plates are very distinct & turned heads. Even in a small village like Pawna, these dudes in a Scorpio stopped to ask about the electric car: Last edited by GTO : 29th September 2019 at 08:11 .