So, after reading peoples' comments on the sneak damage, and whether it should be nerfed or not, I've come up with some creative solutions that I think would make everyone happy.

Please scroll to the end of this post if you don't want to read the justification.

I would appreciate if someone can post this on the PTS forums in a pretty form (as I do not have access there at the moment) and tag some developers in it :)

Premise

Rogue is a classic RPG character that wears leather armour and focuses on stealth & dexterity, dealing high single target damage to enemies from stealth and all kinds of tricks, such as restealthing/vanishing, different stuns, incapacitates, blinding powder etc.

A rogue does not use staves & make force fields around him, nor does he use healing magic. They compensate for this by being evasive and having good burst damage and/or crowd control.

The regular attacks of rogues & assassins do not usually deal a lot of damage, as they tend to deal the biggest part of it in bursts.

Here are links for those unfamiliar with this classic RPG character (and its variations):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thief_(character_class)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassin_(character_class)

Argument

The reality in ESO is, that you cannot play a character similar to what is described above.

Stealth

Restealthing or vanishing in combat is not possible for anyone but Nightblades via Shadow Cloak, and even for Nightblades it is extremely difficult, especially when there are toggleable skills and potions to counter it.

It can be argued whether this invisibility even gives you a real advantage, or just an opportunity for the opponent to heal up and dmg shield while you are invisible.

There are also zero stamina based skills that benefit from the Cloak by increased damage or conditions applied on the opponent. The only skill that has anything to do with stealth in the game is Veiled Strike (and costs/scales with magicka).

The main problem however, is the fact that 99% of times the only way to get back into stealth after attacking an opponent is by killing him or running far, far away. If you fail to kill the opponent, most of the times you will not be able to restealth for a long time, whether you're being focused or not.

Sneak Attack Damage (live):

Sneak attack damage on live is the closest resemblance we have to the classic rogue/assassin gameplay, although certain armour/skill/stat combinations might allow for the distribution of too high damage.

It can range anywhere between 1,4k-2,4k, depending on player & build.

Sneak Attack Damage (PTS):

Sneak attack damage on PTS deals less damage than spells (that can be instant cast) deal from out of stealth (I'm looking at you, Crystal Shards). The benefit you get from Sneak is around 100-200 damage and a stun (more on that later).

(Because I know someone will refuse to believe me about Crystal Shards hitting so hard: http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=30a43ki&s=8#.VElz2_msU8q) [Note: requires a gimmicky build & gear]

(PTS Sneak Attack damage source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUkan0BK36U)

Burst damage

If you critted 1,8k with Snipe before patch, prepare to crit for 1,3k afterwards. You will bring someone with 3,5k health to 60% health. Due to shorter animation, you won't be able to land a Heavy Attack at the same time either. So, add one Poison Injection and you get 1,7-1,8k maximum burst damage from stealth (assuming target has impenetrable traits on gear).

Casting another Snipe after the first one takes 1,3 seconds+the time it takes to land. By the time second Snipe lands (dealing 600-800 damage), the opponent has already broken out of the stun and healed/dmg shielded to full health.

Out of stealth, the best burst damage you can have with the rogue tools of Dual Wield and/or Bow is:

Ambush(300-400)->Soul Harvest(1,4k~)->Flying Blade(700-800) (2k-3k damage) [Nightblade Specific]

Snipe(800-1k)->Poison Injection(400-600) (1k-2k damage)

So you will actually have better burst damage out of stealth than from stealth, assuming the target isn't blocking.

After the patch, Magicka builds will still have access to far superior burst damage without even having to stealth, such as

Ambush(900-1,2k)->Soul Harvest(1,4k~)->Surprise Attack(700-800) for 2k-4k damage (Ambush deals more damage than in the Stamina version)

Crystal Fragments (1k-1.8k)[proc]->Crystal Fragments(1k-1.8k)->Endless Fury(1,3k) for 3k-4k+ damage

Survivability

[Again: http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=ojkx2u&s=8#.VE5eePmsU8o for 2x Crystal Fragments+Endless Fury]

Due to lack of reliable crowd control (as they can all be broken), fights with multiple enemies often boil down to resources and damage shields/heals, or burst damage.

If you try to take opponents down with sustained single target damage, you will soon find out that they heal/get healed or dmg shield faster, or at a equal rate as you deal damage.

Also, when comparing rogue mechanics for survival (Roll Dodge & unreliable Dark Cloak in case of ESO), you'll quickly notice that they do not match the dmg shield spam or healing.

Crowd Control:

Crowd Control in this game cannot be relied on, due to the fact that it is so easily broken (repeatedly). I know this is due to the fact that skills do not have cooldowns, but it still doesn't help the rogue/assassin way of playing and makes it extremely hard to survive against multiple enemies.

The saddest thing is, when you attack someone from sneak and stun him, that stun actually works against you unless you deal enough damage to kill the opponent during it. When the stun is broken, opponent gets the 5 second immunity to CC for the exact duration when you would want to CC him (when he's low on health).

That makes it so much easier to just dmg shield/heal up when you don't have to worry about anything else.

Conclusion

Facts: A rogue/assassin requires one or more of the following: high burst damage, lots of skills revolving around stealth, strong crowd control.

Bonus points for including: Poisons, combo moves, pickpocketing, trap disarming

The burst damage seems to be going away, which is the only aspect of rogue/assassin gameplay we currently have.

I hope you can all see now where the concerns regarding the rogue playstyle come from. I did the best I could explaining them.

I understand that too low TTK (Time To Kill) is a concern for people (although it will still exist in form of several magicka builds, see above), and instead of flaming & complaining, I am hoping we can find a creative solution that expands on game mechanics and build diversity, instead of the other way around. A solution that all player groups can approve of.

Option 1

Keep the sneak damage, but make it conditional so people have a chance to react/anticipate

a)

Only on wounded targets, so no one who's just riding/walking around or sieging a keep somewhere gets "one shot". This would also bring a strategic element to the game, where you could lay traps for the enemy with caltrops, volcanic runes etc.

b)

Only works on target that has been "focused" for x (e.g. 0,5-1,5) seconds (you would have to hover your cursor over him/her). Target would be aware that he is being "focused" on, giving him/her time to prepare for what is coming. This would be a new mechanic.

Alternative: Only make this required for bow sneak attacks, as it would probably not work as intended on melee.

Option 2

Introduction of new stamina based skills revolving around stealth, that deal very good damage on enemy players but require certain conditions.

a)

Stamina based stealth openers, powerful moves that can only be initiated from stealth (or invisibility).

On melee range, damage would be higher than any non-ultimate skill and/or would apply conditions to the enemy.

A ranged alternative would deal slightly less damage to take risk/reward into account.

b)

Combo moves, which deal high damage to opponent if he has a certain status effect, or has been hit by another "combo" skill.

These would be focused on burst damage, and a person who wants to focus on sustained damage (e.g. a dual wielding Warrior) probably wouldn't want to use them.

Option 3

Making Crowd Control more reliable.

a)

Make stealth CC unbreakable (and make it visually different to make sure people don't get confused).

b)

Introduce other unbreakable CCs. These would probably require a cooldown, or another mechanic that prevents spamming them.

One example would be skills that have a CC element being able to "charge up".

Only when the skill is charged up (could be CD timer based, or similar to ultimate) would these skills inflict the CC, while still being usable for damage meanwhile.

In addition to previous options:

Option 4

A)

Give everyone in Cyrodiil more health.

Tune skills that scale off the maximum health percentage to scale up to only x amount of health. (Warning: This could make DKs/Templars slightly less tanky in PvP).

B)

Make block 160 degrees only, allowing a well positioned player benefit from his strategic advantage, and making melee characters able to "backstab" the opponent.

[Note: there might be problems with people walking through each other to hit the opponent from behind, as there is no Player Collision.]

Alternative 1: Make this block radius reduction a Dual Wield and/or Bow passive only.

Alternative 2: Introduce skills that deal increased damage when attacking an opponent from behind.

Option 5

Make players able to restealth at any point, whether they’ve recently attacked a target or not, as long as they’re not in opponent’s stealth detection radius.

Optional: Make entering stealth take longer for players not wearing medium armour.

Optional: Make people wearing medium armour enter stealth faster.

Optional: Add a 5 second cooldown to restealthing after Streak to prevent cheesiness.

Additionally:

How would this work in PvE?

A)

Make it work in PvP only (stealth already functions differently in PvP than it does in PvE since there is no aggro).

B)

Rework how aggro resets in PvE. If you are the only target left for the enemy, then instead of the enemy reseting completely, he’d start looking for you while regenerating health (would feel more similar to previous Elder Scrolls titles as well).

C)

Have the enemy reset aggro. This is how many other MMOs do it (e.g. Vanish in WoW resets aggro in PvE). It wouldn't be too easy to reset encounters, since the stealth detection range is fairly large (and you're usually able to run away anyhow).

When required, bosses could have increased stealth detection range to fix possible problems.

Information about stealth detection ranges (assuming it isn't bugged): http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/74079/stealth-detection-distance

[Note: Game UI should inform players better of their stealth detection radius.]

Let me know what you think.

Leave all questions and ideas on the comments below & keep it constructive please :)

Sincerely,

Decimus