Is the Marvel Cinematic Universe going to have to say goodbye to its friendly neighborhood Spider-Man? Marvel and Sony discussions on how to share the webslinger’s universe have reached an impasse, meaning Spider-Man is barred from rejoining the Avengers. While there are arguments on both sides as to who is at fault, the standoff raises an interesting question: if the two companies part ways, can Sony’s Universe of Marvel Characters (SUMC) survive without any involvement from Kevin Feige?

Disney, Marvel Studios and Sony first brokered the deal back in February 2015. As the LA Times reports, Sony was disappointed by its latest Spider-Man outing (Andrew Garfield’s The Amazing Spider-Man 2), so executives Michael Lynton and Amy Pascal reached out to Marvel to strike a five-movie deal. Feige would oversee creative direction and be able to use Spidey in the MCU, and Marvel would get a tiny portion of first-dollar gross on any solo Spider-Man films. Sony, meanwhile, would completely finance the films and be in charge of casting. Marvel characters like Iron Man would show up to boost the star power of the SUMC, but Sony would not reap any profits from Spidey’s appearances in any MCU films. It was a delicate compromise, but for the most part, it worked.

The trouble came when the five-movie contract ended. During negotiations, Deadline reported that Disney asked to change the deal so that it co-finances all future Spider-Man films 50/50 and receives more profits than the current 5%; Disney also reportedly asked that this be extended to all the other films in the SUMC, like the upcoming Venom 2 and Morbius.

Reports conflict on whether Sony immediately walked or tried to negotiate Disney down. (Notably, the two execs who originally brokered the deal, Lynton and Pascal, are no longer with Sony.) Regardless, the deed was done, and in a statement Sony simply said that it “respects Disney’s decision not to have [Feige] continue as a lead producer of our next live action Spider-Man film. We hope this might change in the future.”

Kevin Feige at the world premiere of Spider-Man: Far From Home. Photograph: Jordan Strauss/Invision/AP

Many fans have interpreted this split as the death knell for Spider-Man, as they view Feige as being Spider-Man’s saving grace. Does this idea hold water though? The charismatic and acrobatic Tom Holland is credited with revitalizing the role, but it was really Sony’s Pascal who cast Holland, along with the Homecoming and Far From Home director Jon Watts. Vanity Fair reports that Pascal was friends with Feige, and she was just as passionate about the webslinger’s potential as Feige was.

Since Pascal became a producer in 2015, it was the joint work of the two that created the Spider-Man universe as we know it today. According to Vanity Fair, Pascal gave Chris Miller and Phil Lord pretty much free rein to make Into the Spider-Verse; she also championed animated spin-offs for Spider-Gwen and Spider-Woman, as well as a live-action Silk movie (starring the Korean-American webslinger Cindy Moon).

Unfortunately, just this May Pascal exited Sony for Universal, which means, well, we’re back to the question of whether the SUMC can keep sailing. (With Pascal gone, there’s also the question of whether her passion projects, which were aimed at putting more women in the Spider-Verse front and center, are now dead in the water.)

If we just look at finances, Spider-Man and the wider SUMC will probably survive even without Feige or Pascal. Thanks to Spider-Man being a pop culture icon, his films were never box office bombs (various Sony boycotting efforts notwithstanding). Sam Raimi’s Spider-Man made $821m worldwide when it first debuted, and though critically panned, Spider-Man 3 still managed $890m. (Spider-Man: Homecoming, in comparison, coughed up $880m.) The Amazing Spider-Man films are what everyone points to when discussing how Sony failed the webslinger, but the first film made $757m and Garfield’s disaffected Peter still has his fans.

Tom Hardy as Venom. Photograph: Allstar/Marvel Entertainment

It’s not so much a question of whether Marvel-separate Sony films will be profitable, but if they’ll be movies fans even want to see. The Venom film already answers this, in part: Venom is completely separate from the MCU and never even featured a Spidey cameo, and yet his film raked in $856m. You may hate the idea of a Marvel-less Spider-Man universe, but many others don’t. Now with Spidey free to swing back to his own world, it’s assumed he may cross over into forthcoming films like Venom 2 and Morbius in some form.

The main worry, of course, is that without both Feige and Pascal, the quality of the films will dip. This is a possibility. But as with any change, there’s also opportunity. If Sony forges ahead with the Silk film sooner rather than later, or potentially debuts a live-action Miles Morales, they may very well guarantee their success for years to come. Some even suggest that, with the hope of an MCU crossover gone, Sony may now feel more free to produce artsy and tonally different films, like an R-rated Venom 2, in the same way Fox once made the brutal and heartbreaking Logan.

Depending on your perspective, this split is terrible, or it’s fine. Holland is contracted for two more solo Spider-Man films under Sony, so fans can rest assured that Peter and his motley crew will still be around for at least a few more years. It may sting that Peter may never mention Happy or Tony again, but just think: without Peter’s stories wholly revolving around Tony, there’s space for Peter to deal with his own issues, rather than constantly grapple with his mentor’s role in the military industrial complex. It’s not a death knell for Holland’s role, or for the wider Spider-Man universe in general. It’s just the potential for something all new, all different.