This week Ana Marie Cox (@anamariecox) sits down with Robert J. Lifton to remind you how bad things have gotten politically— but that remaining optimistic is not totally insane. They begin by drawing the parallels between Trump and other cult leaders/demagogues. Afterwards, they discuss the followers of Trump, why they remain followers, and how to get them to (hopefully) leave. Tune in for an unexpectedly hopeful episode about deathly cults!

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