Robyn Williams: What do you do when someone persistently gets the science wrong, not by mistake, but through wilful self-deception?

Take homeopathy. It is well described in Mark Henderson’s latest book The Geek Manifesto (and by the way you can hear him on this week’s Science Show). Mark tells how homeopathic so-called treatments require a drug to be diluted so much, by a factor of trillions, that for just one molecule of the active ingredient to be present, the pill would have to be ‘equal to the distance from the sun to the earth’. At this point homeopathic fans will tell you that it’s the very water that has memory of the drug. Unfortunately, as Mark Henderson explains, water itself does not have aggregated molecules that would hold the memory kept together for more than nanoseconds, so even that won’t work.

And yet, despite overwhelming proof that homeopathy is at best the placebo effect on stilts, people take it seriously – with dollars to match. Does this matter? Should we worry about our credulous neighbours, or family?

Well, Mildred Studders does. When I asked her how she should be described, she said simply ‘as a grandmother who lives in Brisbane’. Mildred:

Mildred Studders: Do you know how old the earth is? Young Michael says it is a bit over 6,000 years. That’s what he was taught at school. He is the youngest of my eight grandchildren none of them say he is very wrong. Three went to his Christian College, five to other schools. All are involved with modern churches.

Their three sets of parents are not bothered by such dodgy science, so I stepped in. I hoped to encourage them to think for themselves without direct attack on their teachers. However, I did upset at least one for a while. I asked them questions by email. It took a year – not everyone answered every time. Here are things I found out.

Some thought everything started as much as 10,000 years ago, to three it doesn’t matter. Most thought the length of a creation day was 24 hours as we know it. They told me the earth appeared first, then water, land and plants. After that came sun, moon and stars.

I mentioned Galileo, they agreed he was right about the solar system In fact some wondered why there was such a basic question. So I asked ‘how could there be day and night before there was a sun, or any other star?” Nobody thought it was impossible.

They did know about continental drift, but most could not accept it pushed up the Himalayas.

They accepted our telescopes can see stars millions of light years away. So I argued the stars must have been there millions of years ago to send out their light. The 24 year old architect agreed, one was not sure and others, including Charles my newly minted Bachelor of Science said ‘No, nothing is that old’.

I asked how fossil sea life came to be on mountains and in deserts. I was told ‘from the Great Flood’. I asked what happened to the dinosaurs. Most said ‘drowned in the flood’. One considered ‘dinos may have been on the Ark and died out later’. I asked if that flood covered the whole round world. Four replied ‘yes’, two couldn’t be sure. How long ago was Noah’s flood? ‘6,000 to 10,000 years ago’. How long was everything on the ark? They agreed – ‘one year’. How salty was the water? ‘Probably a bit salty’.

Did Noah carry plants? What about corals and other shallow sea life? Did he take worms and other burrowers? I wrote lists of them. Were there thousands of insects? Did he carry all kinds of birds, larks, crows, flamingos? And reptiles – crocodiles, tortoises, green tree snakes? As the flood water would not suit were there freshwater and ocean fish? The answers ranged from ‘Yes’ to ‘Don’t know’. How did Noah collect all these creatures? ‘Easily – they came to him’.

How many humans were on board, any children or slaves? ‘There were eight as the bible states’. How did Noah fit everything? Were there cages, could birds fly about? Did creatures fight or try to eat one another? ‘Everything fitted somehow. The ark was very big’. How big? I did the maths myself. It was huge, up to 1.2 hectares of floor space in three decks and it was roofed. I asked how Stone Age Noah could build it. No iron, no bronze, no horses, no wheels. They didn’t know but thought he could manage.

I enquired how he could provision it for eight people and all the creatures for a year, no refrigeration, nothing in tins. Four thought it possible if they had faith, four did not reply.

I wondered how eight people could care for such a menagerie. Think of the cleaning alone. By now a couple of people thought the flood may not have been worldwide after all. Some didn’t know, a couple reckoned it could be done. The Bachelor of Science added ‘What’s stopping God from just making everything work?’

We’d all had enough flood by then and 22 year old Elizabeth had been offended. We moved onto the aftermath. Where did all that water go? ‘Into the ground’ or ‘the ice caps’ or ‘whatever God wanted’. How did plants disperse to their proper climates? How did creatures reach home across oceans, over mountains and through deserts? What did they eat along the way? Answers varied from ‘God provided safe passage’ to ‘not an issue with not a worldwide flood’. Maybe some were starting to think.

Question 36: How is it that no human and dinosaur remains are ever found together, the dinosaurs always in older layers? One decided ‘they were not discovered yet’ another said ‘I don’t agree with carbon dating’.

Next came the worry about later generations. From such tiny gene pools many lines would be expected to weaken and die out. Also for creatures and humans to diversify more time would be needed. So I asked them to think again about whether life developed over a very, very long time. A couple were uncertain. One said ‘no, because the bible says the world is only young’ and then went on to ask me if I could reconsider. I said ‘yes, if there was evidence’.

I described geology and asked, are geologists who studied for years probably right about the rocks they deal with? One replied ‘yes’. James, a dear boy with all the experience of his 17 years declared ‘the geologists are wrong’.

The next question described the fossil record, gave an account of evolutionary change and then brought in DNA. The fossil records and DNA results agree. The question was can you agree that fossils and DNA show big changes over long times? Only three replies from ‘possibly’ to ‘no’. They do not like the idea of long times.

The last question took the form of a history lesson mentioning Magellan, Wallace and Mendel’s garden peas. If Darwin had not published about evolution someone else would have. Knowledge had reached that stage. Now more is known about so much: fossils, DNA, radiometric dating, astronomy, genetics. We live in the best time ever for access to information. I asked if they are willing to consider results of research. Four said ‘yes’ – perhaps they will.

I wrote a letter to finish with. One part pointed out that belief in the Genesis story of beginnings is not necessary for Christians. Some of their sources tangle the two together and that is what they grew up with. The early bible chapters have value in their own way but they are not a science textbook. It is sad that young people are taught nonsense, have wrong ideas and worse, reject new findings. I told them I am alarmed they will pass on misinformation to other people’s children. I‘ll keep trying with Michael and the others. Perhaps in 10, 20, 50 years they will say their grandmother was on the right track after all. Let’s hope.

Robyn Williams: Yes, let’s hope that other grandparents are as wise and resourceful as Mildred Studders and care enough about their younger family members to help them learn. She lives in Brisbane.

Next week: QWERTY, that almost word at the second line, below the numbers on my typewriter and your computer. Why is QWERTY there and should there be a more sensible keyboard arrangement? Would you wear change? That’s next time.