BarrosRodrigues said: IMO Hordes are now less unforgiving and can even be somewhat more appealing for less expansionist players. Click to expand...

You're still in danger of Civil War if your horde unity is tanked, which is not much fun for a beginner. But I suppose it can only happen once and it has a relatively easy way out (let a pretender win). Once you've done the civil war, it sounds like being at 0 unity for a while due to lack of expansion opportunities is not that traumatic any more.Vassals can't get Civil War, so AI vassal hordes are indeed much safer than they used to be. Do AI hordes take Humanism? I feel like it's a good choice for hordes generally, but especially for the AI given its rebel problems.What would be the appeal of hordes for less expansionist players? Do you mean a 'tall horde' style where you raze land, give much of it back (or give to subjects) so it can be re-razed later, and use the MP for developing the good provinces? I like the idea, but I think an inexperienced player would still struggle with the AE and economy aspects.