A short debate on the Darkmoon site

between Franklin Ryckaert and Ormanci

Edited and introduced by Lasha Darkmoon

with some added material in the form of quotes

LD: In his Complete Diaries, Vol. II. p. 711, Theodore Herzl, the founder of Zionism, says that the area of the Jewish State stretches: “From the Brook of Egypt to the Euphrates.” Rabbi Fischmann, member of the Jewish Agency for Palestine, declared in his testimony to the UN Special Committee of Enquiry on 9 July 1947: “The Promised Land extends from the River of Egypt up to the Euphrates, it includes parts of Syria and Lebanon.” This comes from Oded Yinon’s “A Strategy for Israel in the Nineteen Eighties” (See here and here)

THE PROMISED LAND

according to the Oded Yinon Plan

The Oded Yinon Plan was first set forth in an essay written by the Jewish scholar Oded Yinon. It was published in the Hebrew journal Kivunim (Directions) in February 1982. It was later translated from Hebrew into English by Israel Shahak, the famous anti-Zionist Israeli Jew, in June 1982, a week after Israel’s invasion of Lebanon. (LD)

FRANKLIN RYCKAERT: In the supposed territory of “Greater Israel”, the area from the Nile to the Euphrates, about 100 million people live. If Israel really has a plan to colonize that enormous stretch of land, it not only has to ethnically cleanse it but also to repopulate it with Jews.

There are at most 14 million Jews in the world and not all would like to settle in that “Greater Israel”. Then there is the small problem of defending that territory, not only against the people who were expelled from it and want to return, but also against the whole Arab world, the whole Islamic world, the whole Third World and probably the whole Western World too, including the US.

There are no indications that Israel really has such an insane plan. If it did, it would never have given up the Sinai and Gaza and would have annexed the West Bank and have expelled all Palestinians already long ago. This idea of a secret Israeli “Greater Israel” plan is a paranoid conspiracy theory of people with little sense of realism. It cannot be done and Israel is not trying to do it.

ORMANCI: Franklin Ryckaert writes: “In the supposed territory of “Greater Israel”, the area from the Nile to the Euphrates, about 100 million people live. If Israel really has a plan to colonize that enormous stretch of land, it not only has to ethnically cleanse it but also to repopulate it with Jews.”

Logic fail. Currently, with less than 2% of its population, the ‘master race’ has a de facto control over the USA (not to mention the rest of the western satrapies) more complete than the practical jurisdiction than most ‘elected’ governments have over the states which they govern. Using their complicit stooges in the wider population – in this case, punitively “Christian” – to enforce their cultural hegemony, and buying the politico-judicial class a dime a dozen, they shift billions of dollars of taxpayer money – and huge amounts of resources, to their gang headquarters every year, without complaint or oversight.

All this, in the so-called ‘developed world.’ In the area of your 100 million, already half way gone to dissolution of sovereign states already, the process of subsuming control of governments is even easier. This is not conceptual – that Tel Aviv is firmly in control of the breakaway Kurdistan in northern Iraq is well known, as is their command over the so-called ‘Islamic State’ forces in Syria and Iraq. Money talks, regardless of religious window dressings. And the Yinon Plan is well along to its completion.

MICHEL CHOSSUDOVSKY: The document pertaining to the formation of “Greater Israel” constitutes the cornerstone of powerful Zionist factions within the current Netanyahu government, the Likud party, as well as within the Israeli military and intelligence establishment. The election was fought by Netanyahu on a political platform which denies Palestinian statehood.

According to the founding father of Zionism Theodore Herzl, “the area of the Jewish State stretches: “From the Brook of Egypt to the Euphrates.” According to Rabbi Fischmann, “The Promised Land extends from the River of Egypt up to the Euphrates, it includes parts of Syria and Lebanon.”

When viewed in the current context, the war on Iraq, the 2006 war on Lebanon, the 2011 war on Libya, the ongoing war on Syria, not to mention the process of regime change in Egypt, must be understood in relation to the Zionist Plan for the Middle East. The latter consists in weakening and eventually fracturing neighboring Arab states as part of an Israeli expansionist project.

“Greater Israel” consists in an area extending from the Nile Valley to the Euphrates.

The Zionist project supports the Jewish settlement movement. More broadly it involves a policy of excluding Palestinians from Palestine leading to the eventual annexation of both the West Bank and Gaza to the State of Israel. Greater Israel would create a number of proxy States. It would include parts of Lebanon, Jordan, Syria, the Sinai, as well as parts of Iraq and Saudi Arabia. (See map).

According to Mahdi Darius Nazemroaya in a 2011 Global Research article, the Yinon Plan was a continuation of Britain’s colonial design in the Middle East:

“The Yinon plan is an Israeli strategic plan to ensure Israeli regional superiority. It insists and stipulates that Israel must reconfigure its geo-political environment through the balkanization of the surrounding Arab states into smaller and weaker states. Israeli strategists viewed Iraq as their biggest strategic challenge from an Arab state. This is why Iraq was outlined as the centerpiece to the balkanization of the Middle East and the Arab World. In Iraq, on the basis of the concepts of the Yinon Plan, Israeli strategists have called for the division of Iraq into a Kurdish state and two Arab states, one for Shiite Muslims and the other for Sunni Muslims. The first step towards establishing this was a war between Iraq and Iran, which the Yinon Plan discusses. The Atlantic, in 2008, and the US military’s Armed Forces Journal, in 2006, both published widely circulated maps that closely followed the outline of the Yinon Plan. Aside from a divided Iraq, which the Biden Plan also calls for, the Yinon Plan calls for a divided Lebanon, Egypt, and Syria. The partitioning of Iran, Turkey, Somalia, and Pakistan also all fall into line with these views. The Yinon Plan also calls for dissolution in North Africa and forecasts it as starting from Egypt and then spilling over into Sudan, Libya, and the rest of the region. Greater Israel” requires the breaking up of the existing Arab states into small states. The plan operates on two essential premises. To survive, Israel must (1) become an imperial regional power, and (2) must effect the division of the whole area into small states by the dissolution of all existing Arab states. ‘Small’ here will depend on the ethnic or sectarian composition of each state. Consequently, the Zionist hope is that sectarian-based states become Israel’s satellites and, ironically, its source of moral legitimation. This is not a new idea, nor does it surface for the first time in Zionist strategic thinking. Indeed, fragmenting all Arab states into smaller units has been a recurrent theme.” Viewed in this context, the war on Syria and Iraq is part of the process of Israeli territorial expansion. Israeli intelligence working hand in glove with the US, Turkey and NATO is directly supportive of the crusade directed against the so-called Islamic State (ISIS), which ultimately seeks to destroy both Syria and Iraq as nation states. Michel Chossudovsky, Global Research, March 22, 2015

FRANKLIN RYCKAERT (update) : A Jewish Empire with a majority Arab subject population is impossible because nowadays populations don’t accept such subjugation anymore. The British could rule over 300 million Indians only as long as they accepted their subjugation. When that ended – by violent or non-violent means – the British Raj ended. Same in all other European colonies.

The Israelis already have experience on a small scale with this scenario in Gaza. A minority of 7000 Jews lived there among 1,5 million hostile Palestinians. They needed heavy military protection for their security. Travel was only possible in armed convoys. This situation was unsustainable and even “hawk” Sharon decided to end it. A Jewish Empire with a majority Arab subject population would be a “Greater Gaza” and even less sustainable than “Little Gaza”.

The Jews are already in a dilemma in the occupied West Bank. They would like to annex it, but don’t know what to do with the Palestinian population. Ethnic cleansing is politically unacceptable, but granting them citizenship would make the Palestinians the majority in Israel. Under democracy they could then easily outvote the Jews in all matters. The only solution would be to deny them voting rights and keep them under a form of “Apartheid”, but that too is politically unacceptable.

This is the famous “Democracy or Apartheid” dilemma that currently besets Israeli politics.

How well would a Jewish Empire fare with a subject population of 100 million Arabs either under democracy or apartheid? Under democracy the Arabs would vote their Jewish masters out, under apartheid they would rebel. Ask the white Rhodesians and the white Afrikaanders what the outcome of such a scenario would be.

Drawing historical parallels with the Pax Romana and the Pax Britannica is ill-advised, because this fails to take into account that we are dealing now with a people of completely different mentality.