gaforces (banned)

United We Stand, Divided We Fall

join:2002-04-07

Santa Cruz, CA 2 edits gaforces (banned) Member Public Flogging

Led Zeppelin fans punished



"Those who gathered to watch the punishment typically wanted to make the offender's experience as unpleasant as possible. In addition to being jeered and mocked, those in the pillory might be pelted with rotten food, mud, offal, dead animals, and animal excrement."



I don't think they really went through with the 3 strikes because that one person who was booted off got right back onto the net, thereby negating any benefits that could have been observed. Put em on the pillory for a good flogging."Those who gathered to watch the punishment typically wanted to make the offender's experience as unpleasant as possible. In addition to being jeered and mocked, those in the pillory might be pelted with rotten food, mud, offal, dead animals, and animal excrement."I don't think they really went through with the 3 strikes because that one person who was booted off got right back onto the net, thereby negating any benefits that could have been observed.



your name

@ecatel.net your name Anon Re: Public Flogging said by gaforces: I don't think they really went through with the 3 strikes because those people who were booted off got right back onto the net, thereby negating any benefits that could have been observed. Three strikes has not been effective for 1 very good reason - the government has made no attempt whatever to enforce the law. The legislators passed the laws, but the executive arm of government has had no desire to enforce it. Why that is the case is a mystery.

masterbinky

join:2011-01-06

Carlsbad, NM masterbinky Member Re: Public Flogging It came down to practicality, 'You want us to use our budget on THAT?!'

mlcarson

join:2001-09-20

Santa Maria, CA mlcarson to your name

Member to your name

Just what we need -- more government in our daily lives. The answer to all of this is to restrict damage settlements to 3x the value of whatever MSRP of the copyrighted item was. Stop using the ISP's as enforcement agents. Let the studios sue anybody they want but no more huge judgments on an individual. Some movie sells for $50-- you can't get any more than $150 for the infringement. The punishment would then again fit the crime.



TechyDad

Premium Member

join:2001-07-13

USA TechyDad Premium Member Re: Public Flogging Exactly. I'd even accept 10x the MSRP of the copyrighted item. If you find someone infringing on the copyright of a hundred songs, you'd fine them $990 ($0.99 * 10 * 100). If someone posted 20 movie DVD rips (assuming each DVD had a MSRP of $20), they would be on the hook for $4,000. It would be a financial hit to most people, but not one that would result in financial ruin.



The exception to this would be people who infringed copyright for profit. For example, if you took those DVD rips, burned them onto blank DVDs and sold them on a street corner, then you should get the $750 - $150,000 penalty per infringement. That's what those figures were originally intended for. The application to non-commercial "home" infringement came later.



xXDigitalXx

join:2014-01-22

Saint Petersburg, FL xXDigitalXx Member Re: Public Flogging you can not get blood from a turnip, america also has a nationanwide three strikes and you go to federal prison/pen, not jail, for a very long time. The three strike rule is nothing new to all crimes.



tshirt

Premium Member

join:2004-07-11

Snohomish, WA tshirt to TechyDad

Premium Member to TechyDad

said by TechyDad: (assuming each DVD had a MSRP of $20),



The contention that those mis appropriating property should then only be liable for the retail value when later caught and prosecuted is silly.

The treble damages mentioned above is closer, but neglects to add "attorney's fees, court costs, and other expense of recovery" that are standard to the calculation of restitution. So they change the MSRP to $50k per song and then have them on sale at 99 cents.The contention that those mis appropriating property should then only be liable for the retail value when later caught and prosecuted is silly.The treble damages mentioned above is closer, but neglects to add "attorney's fees, court costs, and other expense of recovery" that are standard to the calculation of restitution.



TechyDad

Premium Member

join:2001-07-13

USA TechyDad Premium Member Re: Public Flogging If the MSRP is set to $50,000 and every site is selling them for $0.99, then there could be a case to argue to a judge that the record labels are colluding to set the MSRP artificially high in order to collect higher copyright infringement fees.



tshirt

Premium Member

join:2004-07-11

Snohomish, WA tshirt Premium Member Re: Public Flogging You only need to offer it at full price for a while to set the retail MSRP even if no one buys it at that price.

As I said treble damage PLUS recovery costs is not unreasonable.

CXM_Splicer

Looking at the bigger picture

Premium Member

join:2011-08-11

NYC CXM_Splicer to tshirt

Premium Member to tshirt

said by tshirt: The contention that those mis appropriating property should then only be liable for the retail value when later caught and prosecuted is silly. Actually, that is exactly how shoplifting is prosecuted.



tshirt

Premium Member

join:2004-07-11

Snohomish, WA tshirt Premium Member Re: Public Flogging said by CXM_Splicer: Actually, that is exactly how shoplifting is prosecuted.

This is not shoplifting.



NormanS

I gave her time to steal my mind away

MVM

join:2001-02-14

San Jose, CA NormanS MVM Re: Public Flogging said by tshirt: This is not shoplifting.

What happened to, "Piracy is theft"?



tshirt

Premium Member

join:2004-07-11

Snohomish, WA tshirt Premium Member Re: Public Flogging mis appropriating property , willful illegal conversion is that better?

most people know if it walks like a duck... no matter what you call it



NormanS

I gave her time to steal my mind away

MVM

join:2001-02-14

San Jose, CA 1 recommendation NormanS MVM Re: Public Flogging I am just confused.



"Piracy is theft".

"Shoplifting is theft".

"Piracy is not shoplifting".



So which is it?



If piracy is not shoplifting, then piracy can't be theft.

54761437 (banned)

join:2013-01-18

Durham, NC 54761437 (banned) Member Re: Public Flogging Don't bother arguing with him. He likes playing little semantics games. Don't get trapped in the matrix.

CXM_Splicer

Looking at the bigger picture

Premium Member

join:2011-08-11

NYC CXM_Splicer to tshirt

Premium Member to tshirt

said by tshirt: mis appropriating property , willful illegal conversion is that better?

most people know if it walks like a duck... no matter what you call it Most people simply call it what it really is... Copying.

dra6o0n

join:2011-08-15

Mississauga, ON dra6o0n Member Re: Public Flogging »youtu.be/up863eQKGUI



Dudes a troll then? Dudes a troll then?

CXM_Splicer

Looking at the bigger picture

Premium Member

join:2011-08-11

NYC CXM_Splicer Premium Member Re: Public Flogging said by dra6o0n: Dudes a troll then?



The argument falls apart under the slightest logical scrutiny and is obviously a push by those that profit from intellectual property to try to increase those profits. To me there is no difference between borrowing a DVD from your friend or the library or downloading it from the net. The claimed loss in both cases is exactly the same. No, I don't think so. I have had many dialogs with Tshirt and I don't believe he is a troll. I do think, however, that there is a small number of people who think that copying = theft. Personal investment, distorted definition of theft, industry propaganda like the video you posted is certainly a factor for some; there are many reasons.The argument falls apart under the slightest logical scrutiny and is obviously a push by those that profit from intellectual property to try to increase those profits. To me there is no difference between borrowing a DVD from your friend or the library or downloading it from the net. The claimed loss in both cases is exactly the same.

jjeffeory

jjeffeory

join:2002-12-04

Bullhead City, AZ jjeffeory to TechyDad

Member to TechyDad

I'm pretty sure $4,000 would result in financial ruin for quite a few people. I know of one person who had to file for Bankruptcy when she owed $10k. I agree $4k is much less than $150k, but we have to remember that this is infringement, not murder or grand theft auto.



TechyDad

Premium Member

join:2001-07-13

USA TechyDad Premium Member Re: Public Flogging At least the $4,000 (for pirating 20 DVD movie rips) would be more in line with the "damages" (yes, I'm using the term loosely) than $750 - $150,000 per infringement.



$4,000 would definitely result in financial ruin for a lot of people, but courts could set up some sort of payment plan to account for the fact that the person can't just stop by the ATM and take out that much cash. A $4,000 payment plan is much less likely to cause financial ruin than a $150,000 payment plan.



Finally, reduced fines would mean people would be able to fight back. If you are facing the possibility of $150,000 in fines, you're likely to take the $2,000 settlement even if you are innocent. If the fine faced is $4,000, you might just fight back. And the more people who fight back for being wrongly accused, the less the recording industry (and other content providers) can use bullying people into settlements regardless of guilt as a side business.



NormanS

I gave her time to steal my mind away

MVM

join:2001-02-14

San Jose, CA TP-Link TD-8616

Asus RT-AC66U B1

Netgear FR114P

NormanS MVM Re: Public Flogging said by TechyDad: Finally, reduced fines would mean people would be able to fight back. If you are facing the possibility of $150,000 in fines, you're likely to take the $2,000 settlement even if you are innocent. Who, in the U.S., has ever been criminally prosecuted for digital piracy?



thedragonmas

Premium Member

join:2007-12-28

Albany, GA ·VOIPO

Netgear R6300 v2

ARRIS SB6180

thedragonmas Premium Member Re: Public Flogging said by NormanS: said by TechyDad: Finally, reduced fines would mean people would be able to fight back. If you are facing the possibility of $150,000 in fines, you're likely to take the $2,000 settlement even if you are innocent. Who, in the U.S., has ever been criminally prosecuted for digital piracy? music.yahoo.com/blogs/am ··· ngs.html



$1.5M for 24 songs... and im sure there are more in google. $1.5M for 24 songs... and im sure there are more in google.



NormanS

I gave her time to steal my mind away

MVM

join:2001-02-14

San Jose, CA TP-Link TD-8616

Asus RT-AC66U B1

Netgear FR114P

NormanS MVM Re: Public Flogging said by thedragonmas: $1.5M for 24 songs... and im sure there are more in google. criminal prosecution. Would be, "U.S. v. Thomas", or "%State_of% v. Thomas". Your example is a civil tort; "Capitol v. Thomas"; not what I was seeking. Sorry ... but I requested information on aprosecution. Would be, "U.S. v. Thomas", or "%State_of% v. Thomas". Your example is a; "Capitol v. Thomas"; not what I was seeking.



thedragonmas

Premium Member

join:2007-12-28

Albany, GA thedragonmas Premium Member Re: Public Flogging my bad, but i still think award limits should be put in place... oh and we forget that it is indeed a civil matter, the ISP's shouldnt be involved, instead there acting like net police at the whim of content makers



aqk

join:2006-07-17

Elgin, QC 1 recommendation aqk to NormanS

Member to NormanS



»brevi.tk/gwtx

OK, then.. how about this:



NormanS

I gave her time to steal my mind away

MVM

join:2001-02-14

San Jose, CA TP-Link TD-8616

Asus RT-AC66U B1

Netgear FR114P

NormanS MVM Re: Public Flogging



Article states: quote: It's the first time that the Justice Department has moved to prosecute individuals for illegally distributing mobile apps.

Cited source, US DoJ first released:



FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

Friday, January 24, 2014



Sorry, but my crystal ball went to the repair shop on January 23, so I had no knowledge of what was a future event at the time I posted.



Obviously, proof that, "There's a first time for everything". Dateline: January 25, 2014Article states:Cited source, US DoJ first released:FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASEFriday, January 24, 2014Sorry, but my crystal ball went to the repair shop on January 23, so I had no knowledge of what was a future event at the time I posted.Obviously, proof that, "There's a first time for everything".

trollscience

join:2013-12-14

Carrington, ND trollscience to thedragonmas

Member to thedragonmas

Some them are caused by copyright trolls.

jjeffeory

jjeffeory

join:2002-12-04

Bullhead City, AZ jjeffeory to mlcarson

Member to mlcarson

Agree with you in principle, but what about all the resources expended to enforce the law? Should there be some built in amount to take that into account, or do you believe that our taxes pay for that part of the process?

dra6o0n

join:2011-08-15

Mississauga, ON dra6o0n to your name

Member to your name

It's not limited to the 'law' of anti-piracy that the government had failed at.



PlusOne

@comcast.net PlusOne Anon Re: Public Flogging said by Jim Kirk: "Three strikes" isn't a law. It is in Australia and France, which was quoted in this story.



Be Good

@wideopenwest.com Be Good to your name

Anon to your name

Just guessing here... Maybe there are more important issues that require their time.

old_wiz_60

join:2005-06-03

Bedford, MA 1 recommendation old_wiz_60 Member The entertainment industry.. practically begs people to pirate stuff. For example, you buy a blu-ray player on July 1, 2013. You would expect it will play Blu-Ray disks, right? So today you buy a new Blu-Ray disk, put it in the player, and find out it will not play. Why? Because they once again updated the encryption and you must update your nearly new blu-ray player, and even then it might not work because your specific mfgr might not have updated all of their devices for the latest blu-ray encyption. Worse yet, there's no guarantee they will ever update it. Then the studios wonder why people pirate. Or you put in a disk, and it plays, but you are expected to sit through 10 minutes or so of previews and advertisements before you actually get to the movie. So your new blu-ray player is yet another device that needs to be updated via the internet just to keep working. Good grief.



Television. Ok I miss an episode of a popular program, and I know that they also provide it on VOD, but you have to wait several days before it is available. However, is it surprising that people simply pirate it rather than wait for whatever restrictions are placed on VOD?