Star Wars has always been a haven for fan theories. Long before Disney purchased Lucasfilm and set out to make a new trilogy with The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi, audiences have been trying to crack George Lucas’s nerd code since the very first film premiered in 1977. The recent release of Episode IX‘s first teaser trailer and official title, The Rise of Skywalker, has proven no different. And just as sure as longtime fans have been trying to crack the title’s meaning, so too has superfan and filmmaker Kevin Smith.

Smith loves to dabble in fan theories of his own, and on the latest episode of his and Ralph Garman’s Hollywood Babble-On podcast, he dove head-first into the already lively discussion. Chief among their chosen topics was what The Rise of Skywalker might mean. Taken literally, it could signal the return of Luke himself — after all, he speaks in the teaser trailer. But what if it’s bigger than Luke? Per ComicBook.com:

“What if, in the last movie, it was the Last Jedi,” Smith said. “What if they are telling us the f****** title. What if that is like a title. What if the way that Jedi has been used historically in those movies and like including that in the last movie the Jedi, the Jedi must end and all that s***. What if that’s it for the Jedi and perhaps the new religion is the Skywalkers. Didn’t that just give you f****** chills? And I swear, again, f****** I don’t want anybody going ‘he knows’ but I know nothing.” “Maybe Skywalker supplants the order that existed beforehand,” Garman said. “Wouldn’t that be f****** dope? He was so f****** important to the universe that from then on they named the order after him. They’re all Skywalkers,” Smith added.

In other words, what if the “Skywalker” of the new Episode IX title doesn’t simply refer to Luke, be it his return as a force ghost or his rising from the dead entirely? What if his model of balance, as hinted at in The Last Jedi, is what’s about to “rise” in the final Star Wars film of the Skywalker saga? You can listen to Smith continue to discuss below.

(Via ComicBook.com)