Jakamakala Profile Joined July 2011 United States 115 Posts Last Edited: 2016-01-27 00:10:02 #1

Image by VitoSs



For my comprehensive TvZ LoTV guide, click



***Note*** Legacy of the Void is a young expansion. The optimal playstyles for all matchups are still being refined (my own included) and everybody's builds improve every day. This includes the sparce replays I can pull up for this guide; the playstyle may evolve based on the date of the game.



None of the images in this guide are meant to insult the opponents skill level or gameplay. Most opponents pictured here are very well mannered people and players who can just as easily give me a thrashing in the match up in a series.



Intro: Hello, I am



My thoughts on TvP: I don't by any means consider TvP to be anywhere near balanced right now. I believe the combination of adepts and PO allow Protoss to be excessively greedy due to pylons' potency and adepts early game efficiency, and I believe there is no "standard macro build" that puts Terran in any decent position. Unlike HoTS, where Terran expanded faster and generally had more army supply of weaker units than Protoss, in LoTV, Protoss expands more quickly and generally has more quality units by the mid game (you may thank the early thirds, adepts, and disruptors). Terran has new tools in LoTV that allow them to fight Protoss in the late game with Liberators, however, this only works out if Terran can survive to the late game without losing all their workers or outright dying. Every game has an early game.



TvP in HoTS often saw Terran on the aggression, with plenty of tools to gnaw away at Protoss while Terran then decides to end the game with a powerful SCV pull or chooses to mass up dropships and go ham on the Protoss' expansions. LoTV sees Protoss with map control and more viable harass with ranged warp prisms, lowered opportunity cost for things like oracles, disruptor drops, and easy defense with spammable 30 damage Pylon Overcharges.



What does this mean? It means what I said before. I truly and honestly do not believe there is a solid way for Terran to play macro into the mid game while staying even aggressively AND economically with a Protoss player of equal skill.



What does this mean???? It means we shake things up and use styles that allow you to take the initiative!!!



Before we get started:



Map vetoes:



- I vetoed Central Protocol because PO rushes are extremely easy to pull off, and proxy oracles are impossible to scout.

- I vetoed Lerilak Crest because I hate it for TvZ and I hate 4p maps.

- It comes down between Ulrena and Ruins of Seras. I chose to veto Ruins of Seras because I hate 4p maps for TvT and TvP. Ulrena is actually great for one of the builds in this guide.



Camera Hotkeys:



This is Legacy of the Void, and you are a Terran player, a member of the official Hardest Race. If you are not using camera hotkeys, you are going to suffer 4 fold. This expansion is faster paced, with more expanding, harassment, and counter harassment than ever. You need to be able to zoom to each base accurately and quickly at the touch of a key every time you do macro management. What do you think this is, HoTS Protoss?



Hotkeys:



The same applies to hotkey management. If you are still relying on a select all army hotkey and are not responsibly rallying your forces, consider upping your mechanics before playing LoTV TvP. What do you think this is, HoTS Protoss?





There are two different "ladder builds" I currently use for TvP. I have a macro build I used to use as well, but I don't believe it is very strong, and will simply leave this simple replay here of a macro build:



http://ggtracker.com/matches/6274090





Style 1:



+ Show Spoiler +

Proxy Reaper into 2 Base Heavy Aggression:



This style focuses on knocking the Protoss off balance early, discouraging them from doing cheese and instead focusing on defending and being greedy after successfully defending, before hitting them with a sharp aggressive timing parade.



This style is not without its weaknesses:



- Soft usage of DTs that burn out your scans and wear down your forces

- Players who are good at intercepting stray units with blink or Phoenix

- A combination of mis micro on your end and superb defense from their's



The opener:

- 12 SCV

- @5-7 seconds, take an SCV off the line and move it towards a proper proxy location. I like to do this build on Orbital Shipyard and Dusk Towers, and generally proxy like so:











- 16 rax

- 16 gas

- 17 gas (with next 75 minerals, no cutting SCVs)



- While your first reaper is queued up, start your factory at home @ 100 gas

- Start 2nd reaper @50 gas

- At @100% 2nd reaper, lift your barracks and take it home; Land the barracks on the tech lab from the factory (the factory will be done making the cyclone by then)



Your first reaper will arrive in the Protoss base a good 10-15 seconds before they are generally ready for it. A scouting probe might hint them that something is up from the double gas but lack of barracks, but there's nothing Protoss can really do from this point to accelerate their defenses, as they generally open Gate - > Gas - > Nexus - > Core while getting the MsC out just in time to stop an in base reaper FE.



- Use your grenades and focus down as many probes as you can. Even Mid GMs lose 2-3 initial probes, and sometimes have to pull for a little bit. Worse players I've faced have lost upwards of 7-8 probes total.



- Pull your first reaper back when the MsC is done and beware of pylons. With the next 2 reapers I tend to either split them up to split the MsC attention, or bring them to the natural of the Protoss and focus down all the natural probes before attempting to get at least 1 reaper out of there (I generally get 1 out).







The reaper arrives in the Protoss base well before good defenses are ready.





With good control, even NA's top can't help losing 5 probes with reapers escaping.



While the reapers are harassing, note your multi tasking with depots and infrastructure:

- at 100% Factory, throw down a tech lab and your Starport

- at 100% Tech Lab, start a cyclone. It finishes quickly enough that you are safe from Proxy Oracles, any adepts that counter push across the map, proxy PO, or MsC harass

- You will start to float money here, so as your Starport is building, start your natural expansion around 3:20

- at 100% Starport, start your first Liberator



This first Liberator can be used to harass or defend, depending on what your opponent is doing. My reapers sometimes see many gates dropping for retaliation, and a fat depot wall, the cyclone, and a liberator can quickly discourage most ground attacks.



If the Protoss is trying to regreed up, use the Liberator to soft harass one of their mineral lines, minding Pylon placement while you macro up.



Start 2 more barracks and an engineering bay for +1 attack. Land your barracks on the Factory's tech lab and start stim, followed up by Combat Shields and Concussive Shells. Start 2 gases at your natural when you have about 12-14 SCVs there. Do not forget non stop production. Cut SCVs when you hit 44.



The next part of the build is not set in stone, but I generally follow it the same way each time I do it. I use the factory to make a reactor for my starport, then a reactor for itself. I eventually add barracks 4 and 5, and I cut Medivacs around 3-4. From there it is pure Bio Mine Liberator Production.





Good, organized, and timely infrastructure to fuel your aggression.



Once you have a decent bio count, move out with the Mines, Bio, Liberators, making sure your mineral lines are safe from Oracle Harass and the like and use the cyclone to lead the charge, scouting on ahead.





This push out happens as early as 6:30-7:00, with the cyclone leading the way.



Most Protoss opponents are trying to greed up their economy before a production explosion. This combined with your cheesy harass can give you a solid army advantage-based timing to punish and end the Protoss. There are a few ways you can take out the pylons.



1) Cyclone lock on and pick away one by one.

2) Siege Tank (I have had games where I made a siege tank after the cyclone to counter heavy adepts)

3) Push in with 6-8 stimmed rauders and beat down a pylon quickly before the MsC can spam PO. Rinse and repeat after healing.



Set up your position in a fashion where your Liberators compromise important ground for the Protoss and mines cover the zones under the Libs so charge ins by high numbers of stalkers, adepts, or phoenix are heavy punished.





Good coverage with your zoning units gives you a strong staging ground to push from.







This Protoss took a 4:10 third, but his army is not well rounded yet. The Phoenix have no use in this uncomfortable situation.



From here you work your way forward and kill the Protoss third, before slowly leapfrogging Liberators, Mines, and Bio positioning up their ramp.



It's up to you whether to commit or not or play the hard contain game. I've chipped away at the Protoss infrastructure using zoning units until Protoss engages into my entrenched position and loses, and I've also lifted my main to my third (or even built a brand new CC) to sustain my income while Protoss's main is mined out and their third destroyed.



Proxy Reaper into 2 Base Heavy Aggression:This style focuses on knocking the Protoss off balance early, discouraging them from doing cheese and instead focusing on defending and being greedy after successfully defending, before hitting them with a sharp aggressive timing parade.This style is not without its weaknesses:- Soft usage of DTs that burn out your scans and wear down your forces- Players who are good at intercepting stray units with blink or Phoenix- A combination of mis micro on your end and superb defense from their'sThe opener:- 12 SCV- @5-7 seconds, take an SCV off the line and move it towards a proper proxy location. I like to do this build on Orbital Shipyard and Dusk Towers, and generally proxy like so:- 16 rax- 16 gas- 17 gas (with next 75 minerals, no cutting SCVs)- While your first reaper is queued up, start your factory at home @ 100 gas- Start 2nd reaper @50 gas- At @100% 2nd reaper, lift your barracks and take it home; Land the barracks on the tech lab from the factory (the factory will be done making the cyclone by then)Your first reaper will arrive in the Protoss base a good 10-15 seconds before they are generally ready for it. A scouting probe might hint them that something is up from the double gas but lack of barracks, but there's nothing Protoss can really do from this point to accelerate their defenses, as they generally open Gate - > Gas - > Nexus - > Core while getting the MsC out just in time to stop an in base reaper FE.- Use your grenades and focus down as many probes as you can. Even Mid GMs lose 2-3 initial probes, and sometimes have to pull for a little bit. Worse players I've faced have lost upwards of 7-8 probes total.- Pull your first reaper back when the MsC is done and beware of pylons. With the next 2 reapers I tend to either split them up to split the MsC attention, or bring them to the natural of the Protoss and focus down all the natural probes before attempting to get at least 1 reaper out of there (I generally get 1 out).While the reapers are harassing, note your multi tasking with depots and infrastructure:- at 100% Factory, throw down a tech lab and your Starport- at 100% Tech Lab, start a cyclone. It finishes quickly enough that you are safe from Proxy Oracles, any adepts that counter push across the map, proxy PO, or MsC harass- You will start to float money here, so as your Starport is building, start your natural expansion around 3:20- at 100% Starport, start your first LiberatorThis first Liberator can be used to harass or defend, depending on what your opponent is doing. My reapers sometimes see many gates dropping for retaliation, and a fat depot wall, the cyclone, and a liberator can quickly discourage most ground attacks.If the Protoss is trying to regreed up, use the Liberator to soft harass one of their mineral lines, minding Pylon placement while you macro up.Start 2 more barracks and an engineering bay for +1 attack. Land your barracks on the Factory's tech lab and start stim, followed up by Combat Shields and Concussive Shells. Start 2 gases at your natural when you have about 12-14 SCVs there. Do not forget non stop production. Cut SCVs when you hit 44.The next part of the build is not set in stone, but I generally follow it the same way each time I do it. I use the factory to make a reactor for my starport, then a reactor for itself. I eventually add barracks 4 and 5, and I cut Medivacs around 3-4. From there it is pure Bio Mine Liberator Production.Once you have a decent bio count, move out with the Mines, Bio, Liberators, making sure your mineral lines are safe from Oracle Harass and the like and use the cyclone to lead the charge, scouting on ahead.Most Protoss opponents are trying to greed up their economy before a production explosion. This combined with your cheesy harass can give you a solid army advantage-based timing to punish and end the Protoss. There are a few ways you can take out the pylons.1) Cyclone lock on and pick away one by one.2) Siege Tank (I have had games where I made a siege tank after the cyclone to counter heavy adepts)3) Push in with 6-8 stimmed rauders and beat down a pylon quickly before the MsC can spam PO. Rinse and repeat after healing.Set up your position in a fashion where your Liberators compromise important ground for the Protoss and mines cover the zones under the Libs so charge ins by high numbers of stalkers, adepts, or phoenix are heavy punished.From here you work your way forward and kill the Protoss third, before slowly leapfrogging Liberators, Mines, and Bio positioning up their ramp.It's up to you whether to commit or not or play the hard contain game. I've chipped away at the Protoss infrastructure using zoning units until Protoss engages into my entrenched position and loses, and I've also lifted my main to my third (or even built a brand new CC) to sustain my income while Protoss's main is mined out and their third destroyed.



Style 2:



+ Show Spoiler +

The 1/1/1



It's back baby. The dreaded build from Wings of Liberty, the TvP 1/1/1. The Wings 1/1/1 utilized a combination of Raven, Banshee, Marines and Tanks in order to punish a Protoss who tries to play a standard game with a standard expansion timing by chipping away at them while having a beefy high DPS buffer.



In LoTV, the zoning power of the 1/1/1 has only gotten stronger, and is probably the one thing I think is actually "strong" in TvP. It's extremely map dependent however, and I reserve the build specifically for Ulrena and sometimes prion terraces.



Fortunately, this build is far more simple than the first style.



The build:



- 13 depot

- 16 barracks

- 16 gas

- 17 gas

- @100% barracks, reactor

- @100 gas, factory

- @100% factory, tech lab and Starport



Money is very tight with the build, so mind your double queueing of marines and scvs as you throw down your depots on time.



Cut SCVs around 24-25 (22 is maximum 1 base saturation).



Once your factory has a tech lab, start your first siege tank. Once the Starport finishes, start a Liberator.



DO NOT STOP MARINE PRODUCTION!!!

DO NOT STOP MARINE PRODUCTION!!!

DO NOT STOP MARINE PRODUCTION!!!

DO NOT STOP MARINE PRODUCTION!!!



Once you have 8 marines and your first tank, move out, with the tank leading the way and minding any lingering adepts. Your opponent should know something is up by your lack of a natural.





The infrastructure set up by 3 minutes.



Move right across the map (especially easy on Ulrena) and start setting up at the bottom of their natural ramp. Pull 2-3 SCVs for repairs and making turrets/bunkers. Turrets will give you air dominance, and bunkers are well rounded for holding your position.





The Liberator doubles as a heavy duty zoning unit and a ramp spotter as your tank kills the pylons.



The attack only becomes more deadly as a second tank and Liberator show up, and it's almost lights out once the third tank and Liberator show up. You may start to have excess minerals as the attack drags, so don't be afraid to back up your attack with a natural CC.





2-3 SCVs give your push heavy duty trenching and on demand repairs.

The 1/1/1It's back baby. The dreaded build from Wings of Liberty, the TvP 1/1/1. The Wings 1/1/1 utilized a combination of Raven, Banshee, Marines and Tanks in order to punish a Protoss who tries to play a standard game with a standard expansion timing by chipping away at them while having a beefy high DPS buffer.In LoTV, the zoning power of the 1/1/1 has only gotten stronger, and is probably the one thing I think is actually "strong" in TvP. It's extremely map dependent however, and I reserve the build specifically for Ulrena and sometimes prion terraces.Fortunately, this build is far more simple than the first style.The build:- 13 depot- 16 barracks- 16 gas- 17 gas- @100% barracks, reactor- @100 gas, factory- @100% factory, tech lab and StarportMoney is very tight with the build, so mind your double queueing of marines and scvs as you throw down your depots on time.Cut SCVs around 24-25 (22 is maximum 1 base saturation).Once your factory has a tech lab, start your first siege tank. Once the Starport finishes, start a Liberator.Once you have 8 marines and your first tank, move out, with the tank leading the way and minding any lingering adepts. Your opponent should know something is up by your lack of a natural.Move right across the map (especially easy on Ulrena) and start setting up at the bottom of their natural ramp. Pull 2-3 SCVs for repairs and making turrets/bunkers. Turrets will give you air dominance, and bunkers are well rounded for holding your position.The Liberator doubles as a heavy duty zoning unit and a ramp spotter as your tank kills the pylons.The attack only becomes more deadly as a second tank and Liberator show up, and it's almost lights out once the third tank and Liberator show up. You may start to have excess minerals as the attack drags, so don't be afraid to back up your attack with a natural CC.



All-Ins

- The 1/1/1 is an all in of your own, and so the unit can be used to counter an all in from Protoss, especially given the defensive capabilities of Tanks and Liberators. I have yet to face a Protoss who goes one base all in vs 1/1/1, but I imagine it would go well for me and I'd take an in base natural behind it.



- The proxy reaper into 2 base push is the same deal. Use your fast infrastructure to deflect 2 base aggression from Protoss. Utilize your Liberators and Cyclones to rid pesky warp prisms from your base and don't be afraid to turret your mineral lines.





Obvious Tips:

- Sometimes playing the proxy reaper style can actually just turn into a standard macro game, except you've eliminated most possibility of Protoss cheesing or all inning you and putting the game in a more comfortable position. Just turtle up while minding your upgrades and move out once Protoss takes their fourth (a more easily attacked position than a third or nat). Aim for a late game Bio army with 8-10 Liberators and some mines. Mind if the Protoss has any Stargates, as Tempests are the correct response to Liberators, and will require a Raven or Viking response.



- If playing the game with the original intent to go for the throat, mind mobile units like Stalkers, Oracles, or Phoenix that attempt to cut off your parade



- Be very careful of DT's, as they can ruin your day if you aren't ready to scan them and put you on a timer.



- I sometimes do a double mine drop while harassing with the Liberator if I know there's no Stargate tech. I am conservative with the drop and try to make sure I get the 2 mines out so I may re use them.



- Mind your zoning units. Keep enough support under them so they can't be sniped by Blink Stalkers, but also be mindful enough to spread units so that players who manage to get disruptors or storm out can't just end you by killing the core ground army.



- DO NOT be afraid to take the proxy reaper style into a third CC instead of rax 4 and 5 and play a macro game. Protoss who are intelligent or even just lucky may catch you off guard with counter attacks with the ridiculous OP Warp Prism and its adept warp ins. You do NOT HAVE to go 2 base hard core aggression.



Replays:



Proxy Reaper:

http://ggtracker.com/matches/6386871

(this one is a Macro game)

http://ggtracker.com/matches/6371467

http://ggtracker.com/matches/6386900

(this one better follows my MO)

(another Macro game off the opener)

http://ggtracker.com/matches/6412318

(GM Protoss who goes phoenix)

(Rank 4 Master KR)

(Kill third into contain while double expanding behind it as an alternative)



1/1/1 Timing:



http://ggtracker.com/matches/6386885

http://ggtracker.com/matches/6386894

http://ggtracker.com/matches/6393647

http://ggtracker.com/matches/6393648





Macro Game Just in Case:



http://ggtracker.com/matches/6274090

In short, my macro TvP is something I rarely do anymore, but it revolves around playing really safe with a 1/1/1 Cyclone and Raven into 3 rax 3rd CC, hunting WPs, 4th and 5th rax, and a PDD timing attack at the Protoss third at 8 minutes before going into late game Bio + Liberator. I don't prefer doing this. For my comprehensive TvZ LoTV guide, click here Legacy of the Void is a young expansion. The optimal playstyles for all matchups are still being refined (my own included) and everybody's builds improve every day. This includes the sparce replays I can pull up for this guide; the playstyle may evolve based on the date of the game.None of the images in this guide are meant to insult the opponents skill level or gameplay. Most opponents pictured here are very well mannered people and players who can just as easily give me a thrashing in the match up in a series.: Hello, I am Jakamakala , an infamous mid GM Terran (currently hovering around rank 40-70, but GM league is fucked up right now) who is known for his don't-give-a-shit attitude, carefree BM, and sometimes unique Clan Tags in game. This is a quick and short guide on my playstyle in TvP in low GM LoTV. It should help to get some people's feet off the ground if they are lost in the MU but do not consider it the authority on the MU.I don't by any means consider TvP to be anywhere near balanced right now. I believe the combination of adepts and PO allow Protoss to be excessively greedy due to pylons' potency and adepts early game efficiency, and I believe there is no "standard macro build" that puts Terran in any decent position. Unlike HoTS, where Terran expanded faster and generally had more army supply of weaker units than Protoss, in LoTV, Protoss expands more quickly and generally has moreunits by the mid game (you may thank the early thirds, adepts, and disruptors). Terran has new tools in LoTV that allow them to fight Protoss in the late game with Liberators, however, this only works out if Terran can survive to the late game without losing all their workers or outright dying. Every game has an early game.TvP in HoTS often saw Terran on the aggression, with plenty of tools to gnaw away at Protoss while Terran then decides to end the game with a powerful SCV pull or chooses to mass up dropships and go ham on the Protoss' expansions. LoTV sees Protoss with map control and more viable harass with ranged warp prisms, lowered opportunity cost for things like oracles, disruptor drops, and easy defense with spammable 30 damage Pylon Overcharges.What does this mean? It means what I said before.- I vetoed Central Protocol because PO rushes are extremely easy to pull off, and proxy oracles are impossible to scout.- I vetoed Lerilak Crest because I hate it for TvZ and I hate 4p maps.- It comes down between Ulrena and Ruins of Seras. I chose to veto Ruins of Seras because I hate 4p maps for TvT and TvP. Ulrena is actually great for one of the builds in this guide.This is Legacy of the Void, and you are a Terran player, a member of the official Hardest Race. If you are not using camera hotkeys, you are going to suffer 4 fold. This expansion is faster paced, with more expanding, harassment, and counter harassment than ever. You need to be able to zoom to each base accurately and quickly at the touch of a key every time you do macro management. What do you think this is, HoTS Protoss?The same applies to hotkey management. If you are still relying on a select all army hotkey and are not responsibly rallying your forces, consider upping your mechanics before playing LoTV TvP. What do you think this is, HoTS Protoss?There are two different "ladder builds" I currently use for TvP. I have a macro build I used to use as well, but I don't believe it is very strong, and will simply leave this simple replay here of a macro build:- The 1/1/1 is an all in of your own, and so the unit can be used to counter an all in from Protoss, especially given the defensive capabilities of Tanks and Liberators. I have yet to face a Protoss who goes one base all in vs 1/1/1, but I imagine it would go well for me and I'd take an in base natural behind it.- The proxy reaper into 2 base push is the same deal. Use your fast infrastructure to deflect 2 base aggression from Protoss. Utilize your Liberators and Cyclones to rid pesky warp prisms from your base and don't be afraid to turret your mineral lines.- Sometimes playing the proxy reaper style can actually just turn into a standard macro game, except you've eliminated most possibility of Protoss cheesing or all inning you and putting the game in a more comfortable position. Just turtle up while minding your upgrades and move out once Protoss takes their fourth (a more easily attacked position than a third or nat). Aim for a late game Bio army with 8-10 Liberators and some mines. Mind if the Protoss has any Stargates, as Tempests are the correct response to Liberators, and will require a Raven or Viking response.- If playing the game with the original intent to go for the throat, mind mobile units like Stalkers, Oracles, or Phoenix that attempt to cut off your parade- Be very careful of DT's, as they can ruin your day if you aren't ready to scan them and put you on a timer.- I sometimes do a double mine drop while harassing with the Liberator if I know there's no Stargate tech. I am conservative with the drop and try to make sure I get the 2 mines out so I may re use them.- Mind your zoning units. Keep enough support under them so they can't be sniped by Blink Stalkers, but also be mindful enough to spread units so that players who manage to get disruptors or storm out can't just end you by killing the core ground army. http://ggtracker.com/matches/6365754 (this one is a Macro game) http://ggtracker.com/matches/6398528 (this one better follows my MO) http://ggtracker.com/matches/6400050 (another Macro game off the opener) http://ggtracker.com/matches/6413450 (GM Protoss who goes phoenix) http://ggtracker.com/matches/6429635 (Rank 4 Master KR) http://ggtracker.com/matches/6431421 (Kill third into contain while double expanding behind it as an alternative)Macro Game Just in Case:In short, my macro TvP is something I rarely do anymore, but it revolves around playing really safe with a 1/1/1 Cyclone and Raven into 3 rax 3rd CC, hunting WPs, 4th and 5th rax, and a PDD timing attack at the Protoss third at 8 minutes before going into late game Bio + Liberator. I don't prefer doing this.