LUCAS. Me! I'm the only one [laughs]! And it's through me that this organization hopefully tries to take a more compassionate view of its employees and what we do. If we became a public corporation, then that unique aspect would disappear. As the chairman and the president of everything, I, of course, have to make money to survive. But as the stockholder, I can say, "Yes, but, one must have a little bit of honor, good manners and consideration for everybody else." Nonetheless, we live in a world where you have to be reasonably tough in order to be taken seriously. Sometimes you have to be the shark, because you have to live. Between two animals like baboons who cross each other in the forest, it's the one that yells at the others the most that makes the biggest impression. You can't just shy away from that situation. You have to stand up and yell in their language in order to get them to respect you. That's part of the jungle we live in. But it's also my feeling that with the people who work beneath us in our pride or our herd, so to speak, one must try to treat them with compassion and in a nurturing manner.

SCHELL. Would you say that you're now leading a good life?

LUCAS. I would say I am happy. The interesting part of it is that -- and I hate to say it because it's such a cliché -- the good life has nothing to do with the money thing and fortune.

SCHELL. Since you have money, you're probably not quite the right person to say such a thing [laughs].

LUCAS. No, I am the right person! I've been there! I've done it! And I want to tell film students: "If you've gone into films to make money, fame and fortune, just forget it! The odds are way against you. Go into the stock market! Go into something else. You're never going to find money in the film business. Because it's too hard." Well, maybe there's fame, if you're lucky. But you might just as well go out and become a serial killer, because you can get famous much faster that way!

I've got just about as much money as you can get, and I was just as happy 30 years ago. As long as I could make a movie, I was happy. And as long as I still can make movies, I'll still be happy. The thing that makes me unhappy is when somebody else tells me what to make.

SCHELL. The fact that now you don't have to get permission from others to do what you want must make a great difference, and that freedom derives in no small measure from the vast cushion you've got around you to protect yourself.

LUCAS. Sure, the urge toward independence grows out of the frustration that any artist -- a writer, a painter, a sculptor -- faces, which is: you want to get into a position where people aren't distorting or destroying your vision. When you get into opera, architecture or film, you're dealing in art forms that are so large and require so many resources that you can't help but be in a more communal kind of situation. And to dominate such a situation with your vision is much, much harder. Knowing how to get people to cooperate and to build a pyramid the way you want the pyramid built is a much larger social endeavor than, say, being a Picasso and painting in your studio.