[SLYCE is recruiting]

Circle of Two are traitors.

It isn’t often that we’re treated to display of callous backstabbing that CO2 so recently perpetrated. Despite the reputation of an EVE full of knives in the dark, most entities that currently exist in 0.0 stick to word and deal with reasonable good faith. This isn’t because of some mistaken idea of e-honor, it’s a matter of the almost Darwinian natural selection of alliances. Traitors have difficulty finding friends, loner alliances tend to get picked off. A worthy enemy garners respect, a traitor, scorn, and a staunch ally is worth their weight in gold.

So it came as some surprise that CO2 opted for a mid-war betrayal mere minutes after our defense of their home soil.

But betrayals are almost never a spur of the moment action. So it was in this case. And unlike even our enemies, diplomatic privilege in communications does not apply to traitors.

No one is shackled in iron chains to the coalition. Members are welcome to leave if they so choose, and we have facilitated exits in the past on good terms. So why did CO2 opt for treachery?

Now, for the rest of the story.

“CO2 are loyal friends.” - Endie, April 2012

Our story begins at the very beginning of April 2012. CO2 approached us for admittance into the coalition. Endie, and some of the other Bat Country guys who were formerly members of CO2, and had strong ties with them, told CO2 that they would make the case to the rest of the coalition to let them in. There was nothing unusual about this at the time and the BAT guys were up-front about their relations and historical ties with CO2 and their leadership. Through their advocacy, as well as the vouch of former Sky Marshal and Blackops leader TheAdj, the coalition decided to take a chance and give CO2 a shot.

When I say, take a chance, what I mean is this--in April of 2012, CO2 had dropped to about 300 people. As gigx, CO2’s leader said at the time:

[SLYCE is recruiting]

[20:21:13] gigX > I forgot the time when I lead more then 100ppl in fleet

[20:21:17] gigX > I miss that time

They were desperate, and we as a coalition were in an empire building phase. We were racking up wins over historic enemies and steadily expanding our resources as a coalition. We figured, why not let them in and see what they’re made of?

What’s the worst that can happen?

Before I move onto the next phase of this story, here are some of the interesting logs from this time, which have a certain element of prophecy to them, though I’ve left out the handful of logs of gigx being thrilled with having 15-20 people in fleet:

Gicer (spy-guy, BAT) summary of TS conversation, April 7th, 2012:

They expressed a ton of interest at doing Black Ops style pvp and they also want to join fleets with the CFC and show up and get involved. I like the way they see this as a chance at more pvp and not a "where do we rat" jew heaven.

They specifically stated that they do not want space at this time because they are small and have not earn't that right in the CFC yet. They also said that while a couple of systems to call home is a goal of theirs at some point, it is not their motivation.

From discussions it seems that inclusion into the CFC will be the weapon to rebuild their alliance and train new people, while they do that they join fleets and intergrate into the CFC.

I went over most of the rules / regs and how we work and they think that this is an amazing offer for them. This is important because Serbians have this immense sense of loyalty.

Sara Rae (GSF Diplomat), August 8, 2012:

(23:54:16) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/c895a32: but a serious question looking at the war. After we are done with this one and got all these moons/sov what are you guys looking at to get out of it?

(23:54:56) gigX: dunno m8

(23:55:16) gigX: dont know what we can get

(23:55:22) gigX: or what we earned

(23:55:27) gigX: or did we earn

(23:56:29) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/c895a32: what would you like to get?

(23:57:03) gigX: maybe one constalation would be fine

(23:57:09) gigX: close to some camp route

(23:57:41) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/c895a32: and moons?

(23:58:03) gigX: hmm dunno

(23:58:22) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/c895a32: if you could choose between those 2 sov or moons?

(23:58:29) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/c895a32: wich would you prefer?

(23:58:31) gigX: sov

(23:58:43) gigX: for industry guys

(23:58:49) gigX: what we can do with moon

(23:59:03) gigX: moon can be the problem in co2

(23:59:09) gigX: since we have small corp numbers

(23:59:34) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/c895a32: so you wouldn ´t mind getting sov without moons?

(23:59:59) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/c895a32: because moons would something more ¨pain in the ass ¨

(9-8-2012 0:00:03) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/c895a32: to deal with

(0:00:16) gigX: its hard to defend moons

(0:00:25) gigX: specialy because co2 is eu tz

(0:00:31) gigX: we are low on ppl

(0:00:38) gigX: we need sov to rebuild alliance

(0:00:49) gigX: bring more pvp corps and people

(0:04:13) gigX: Atm all of that is away from CO2

Sara Rae, Post-Tribute spoils discussion where we gave CO2 Tech moons and sov. Gigx notes the dangers of being greedy. October 27, 2012:

(19:13:38) gigX: I already told ppl that I will lock all towers with tech

(19:13:47) gigX: found a lot of greed ppl

(19:14:00) gigX: they dont talk what we need to do

(19:14:03) gigX: just about tech

(19:14:11) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/ef623085: yes to greedy

(19:14:18) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/ef623085: you will need to watch out with that

(19:14:23) gigX: they already calculate

(19:14:37) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/ef623085: how much B per month it would be?

(19:14:49) gigX: yea

(19:14:58) gigX: but they dont talk about that when I`m on ts

(19:15:44) gigX: because they know that I will give moons to goons if they start to be greedy

(19:16:02) gigX: Most of ppl I know in RL

(19:16:09) gigX: we see this game as pixel and fun

(19:16:25) gigX: but some of them see this game tru isk

(19:16:41) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/ef623085: yes they only see the $.$

More spoils discussion, November 5th 2012. Gigx again highlights greed and that some people play for the wrong reasons, money, and the right reasons, friendship and fun.

[SLYCE is recruiting]

(22:17:21) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/2e6c5535: http://evemaps.dotla...nt/F-V9QW#const this constellation we were thinking on if you wanted it ofcourse

(22:19:53) gigX: lol this is the best const in vale

(22:20:22) gigX: but co2 still dont deserve that

(22:20:43) gigX: first iwant to show co2 to cfc in full condition

(22:21:09) gigX: and i realy want to start from that trib const

(22:21:35) gigX: If you guys dont mind

(22:21:43) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/2e6c5535: It is up to you

(22:21:46) gigX: We want to stay in tribute

(22:21:57) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/2e6c5535: wich ever you guys prefer

(22:22:04) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/2e6c5535: we dont want to force anything with you guys

(22:22:13) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/2e6c5535: and would like to listen to you

(22:22:22) gigX: that const is good for carebearing

(22:22:23) gigX: in vale

(22:22:36) gigX: I cleared most of carebear from corp and alliance

(22:22:44) gigX: I dont want to make same mistake

(22:24:33) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/2e6c5535: I really like that in you guys

(22:25:07) gigX: tnx m8

(22:25:33) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/2e6c5535: if only every alliance was like you guys

(22:42:46) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/2e6c5535: some guys are just really greedy

(22:43:05) gigX: well that was always problem in eve

(22:43:13) gigX: someone playing for isk

(22:43:23) gigX: someone for fun and friendship

Gigx on Serbian mentality, and why people are wrong to go alone, November 28th, 2012:

(19:17:06) gigx@goonfleet.com: Well I never got chance to shoot on serbians in EVE

(19:17:29) gigx@goonfleet.com: and most of serbians in eve think that they can rule alone

(19:17:32) gigx@goonfleet.com: in small corps

(19:17:55) gigx@goonfleet.com: I dont like to hear "pro pvp players"

(19:18:04) gigx@goonfleet.com: and they think they are pro

(19:18:09) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/c85c4a78: ugh

(19:18:26) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/c85c4a78: I dont like hear that eather

(19:18:30) gigx@goonfleet.com: they are still in time

(19:18:39) gigx@goonfleet.com: when you can go with 10 ppl and kill 30

(19:18:53) gigx@goonfleet.com: without blob or hotdrop

Now, a bit of a breather. I’ve left out a lot of logs, but from the above it should be easy to see why we enjoyed working with CO2 in the early years. They were full of spunk, eager to earn acceptance into the coalition, and valued friendship more than money. They didn’t ask for handouts, they asked for a chance to earn their place. I’ve also left out a lot of the coalition building bits where CD advised CO2 on how to better build and run their alliance. Every step of the way, we helped the plucky guys build their alliance and realize their potential. At this point in the story, CO2 is no longer in danger of collapse, has stabilized, and was now looking to expand from the starting point the coalition had given them--that they’d earned.

Now, back to the logs.

Opening recruitment, the importance of M-O, and the first signs of trouble with TNT. January 14th, 2013.

(21:58:59) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/a8adb8db: how is everything going?

(21:59:32) gigx@goonfleet.com: Well I give job to Da Winci to start looking for new corporations

(21:59:54) gigx@goonfleet.com: Also I told him if he have any questions about something that he can contact and ask you

(22:00:02) gigx@goonfleet.com: Is that ok?

(22:00:26) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/a8adb8db: sure

(22:00:30) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/a8adb8db: he can always talk to me

(22:00:40) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/a8adb8db: maybe Ill talk to him first to break the ice

(22:00:49) gigx@goonfleet.com: http://co2.eve-kill....kll_id=15878426

(22:00:58) gigx@goonfleet.com: PVP is improved in CO2

(22:01:05) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/a8adb8db: nice one

(22:01:32) gigx@goonfleet.com: http://co2.eve-kill....kll_id=15862269

(22:01:58) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/a8adb8db: Nice you have enough pvp nearby with taisy?

(22:02:17) gigx@goonfleet.com: Well we got some trouble with TNT guys

(22:02:27) gigx@goonfleet.com: because they fighting for loot

(22:02:32) gigx@goonfleet.com: but I ignored that

(22:02:48) gigx@goonfleet.com: and we started raping everything around M-O including M-O

(22:03:16) gigx@goonfleet.com: Any fleet who enter in tribute tru m-o

(22:03:22) gigx@goonfleet.com: they need to fight us first

Sara Rae, taking the next step toward integration, January 30th, 2013.

(22:56:44) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/f12fbbaa: I talked to da winci abit totday

(22:56:46) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/f12fbbaa: today*

(22:58:01) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/f12fbbaa: I want to get co2 more intergrated with the cfc

(23:03:11) gigx@goonfleet.com: How do you mean "integrated"

(23:04:01) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/f12fbbaa: working more together, seeing you guys more in fleets, you fcing cfc fleets or EG fleets

(23:04:05) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/f12fbbaa: that kind of stuff

(23:05:03) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/f12fbbaa: some people have the feeling at the moment that CO2 is working more on itself and I wnat to get that image out of the way

(23:05:44) gigx@goonfleet.com: Well they are wrong

(23:06:09) gigx@goonfleet.com: If co2 working for itself then Its fine with me to have 20ppl in my roam

(23:06:34) gigx@goonfleet.com: But I want to show cfc that we can always help with atleast 50-100 ppl in cfc fleets

(23:07:18) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/f12fbbaa: co2 should join the next european goonion deployment

(23:07:30) gigx@goonfleet.com: I`m waiting for that

And more diplomatic attempts at integration, Feburary 4th, 2013:

(13:18:54) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/55c78344: we will have a welcome thread in the EG section for co2

(13:18:55) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/55c78344: Dear EG Brothers and Sisters, we are gathered here today to welcome into our hallowed ranks our fine allies: Circle of 2.

Through the good grace of Dear Leader, GigX, Sara Rae and your humble co-conspirator, myself, we would like to officially welcome our venerable Circle of 2 dudes and dudettes to our merry little subforum. While CO2 have been faithful and trusted allies of us for quite a while, we've never been formally introduced and as we are soon to see a large influx of CO2 members into our ranks, it was thought fitting that each squad get to welcome the other in the way they are accustomed.

For EG, this is constant deafening worthless posts. Our most popular threads are those wherein we say nothing but a random word or tell everyone how many trains we've taken on a Wednesday. For CO2, well, I have no idea what you people do. And this is why this thread exists.

This thread will be for CO2 people to introduce themselves and begin to contribute to a great dialogue between the two groups. Hopefully this dialogue will involve much shitposting and mutual crap flinging.

EG are currently in the process of fully deploying to Delve as there are many TEST that deserve death and there are many of us who deserve to kill them. CO2 will be joining us DAAN SAAF and so will need to start looking at our doctrine ships and our deployment details threads.

SO GO MEN AND POST! POST LIKE YOU'VE NEVER POSTED BEFORE! MAKE OUR NEW BUDDIES FEEL WELCOME!

Also, there'll be a prize for the greatest/awfullest post based solely on my whims.

I end now with a quote from Sara Rae, EG hero and CO2 Diplo:

"I would like to welcome CO2 to EG after working for some months with these guys. I would like to say that they are good dudes that would work really good with EG. Have fun and lets kill some test."

(13:19:52) gigx@goonfleet.com: sec I just make coffe

(13:19:59) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/55c78344: sure

(13:21:10) gigx@goonfleet.com: This thread will be for CO2 people to introduce themselves and begin to contribute to a great dialogue between the two groups.

(13:21:13) gigx@goonfleet.com: hehehe

(13:21:24) gigx@goonfleet.com: good luck with that

First rumors of embezzlement, February 19th, 2013. It was here where corporations within CO2 started complaining to us about finances, and started looking to leave. Remember this detail, it’ll be important later.

(9:31:52) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/a67b351c: morning

(9:36:16) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/a67b351c: we will need to talk asap

(14:22:47) gigx@goonfleet.com: you here m8

(14:22:57) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/b7d28ea: yes I am

(14:23:46) gigx@goonfleet.com: I see you needed me

(14:23:58) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/b7d28ea: yes indeed

(14:24:13) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/b7d28ea: we got some strange news from co2 that I wanted to check

(14:24:26) gigx@goonfleet.com: about?

(14:24:52) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/b7d28ea: income and directors using tech for themselfs for the most part

(14:25:00) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/b7d28ea: and a corp looking to leave co2

(14:25:43) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/b7d28ea: so that got me worried

(14:25:56) gigx@goonfleet.com: what corp told you that

(14:26:25) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/b7d28ea: which corp do you thinkg it is?

(14:26:28) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/b7d28ea: think*

(14:26:45) gigx@goonfleet.com: noone have access to tech exept me

(14:27:03) gigx@goonfleet.com: then we making reactions with other corps

(14:27:19) gigx@goonfleet.com: making nanotransistors an fulleride

(14:27:43) gigx@goonfleet.com: and selling on alliance wallet

(14:27:50) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/b7d28ea: would you say the tech is about 25b/month?

(14:28:12) gigx@goonfleet.com: something like that

(14:28:31) gigx@goonfleet.com: and we using ally wallet for bills

(14:28:35) gigx@goonfleet.com: and fuel

(14:28:44) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/b7d28ea: ofcourse

(14:28:46) gigx@goonfleet.com: upgrades in ihubs

(14:28:56) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/b7d28ea: thats before sov + pos feul and a such

(14:29:00) gigx@goonfleet.com: alliance wallet paying everithing

(14:29:18) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/b7d28ea: also srp right?

(14:29:32) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/b7d28ea: or you replace hulls?

(14:29:48) gigx@goonfleet.com: srp?

[SLYCE is recruiting]

(14:30:01) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/b7d28ea: ship replacement programm

(14:30:10) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/b7d28ea: sorry for the shorting of it

(14:30:28) gigx@goonfleet.com: We are still not able to make srp

(14:31:26) gigx@goonfleet.com: I`m spending mostly my own isk then alliance isk for ships

(14:32:05) gigx@goonfleet.com: so I`m realy interested who tell that directors using tech for themself

(14:33:12) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/b7d28ea: I would like to know first which corp isn ´t really happy your alliance first?

(14:33:28) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/b7d28ea: so you maybe have an idea who ti is?

(14:35:20) gigx@goonfleet.com: well most of corps are not happy

(14:35:27) gigx@goonfleet.com: because I`m raging on them

(14:35:33) gigx@goonfleet.com: they dont come in fleets

(14:35:49) gigx@goonfleet.com: just carebearing

At this point, CO2 started complaining about being poor, and not being able to fund SRP. Aryth and the rest of our finance team started digging into it, and came to the conclusion that CO2 was somehow wasting their money. Sara Rae in the meantime sought other ways to help them, and continued to offer the help and support we could, including that of our expert finance team.

March 4th, 2013:

(14:42:06) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/55ffc3eb: did da winci talk to you about the propalse I gave him about getting more tech if possible?

(14:42:15) gigx@goonfleet.com: nope

(14:42:56) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/55ffc3eb: you guys don ´t have a real SRP(ship replacement program) at the moment right?

(14:43:06) gigx@goonfleet.com: No we dont

(14:43:11) gigx@goonfleet.com: we working mostly with donations

(14:43:21) gigx@goonfleet.com: and bills are payed from tech

(14:43:43) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/55ffc3eb: yep indeed

(14:44:07) gigx@goonfleet.com: Well true is if we put upgrades for jammers

(14:44:19) gigx@goonfleet.com: then it will not be posible for srp

(14:44:56) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/55ffc3eb: so what I was looking at was maybe get the help of our finance team to look at your finances and that they can help you with tweaking stuff and if they find that you really can ´t fund srp. We can look at the option to get you more tech moons.

(14:46:15) gigx@goonfleet.com: That would be ok

(14:46:18) gigx@goonfleet.com: what I need to do

(14:47:20) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/55ffc3eb: I will talk with our finance team first to see what info they need

(14:47:43) gigx@goonfleet.com: Everything what they need I will give them

(14:48:01) gigx@goonfleet.com: because I realy want to see are my ppl doing good with current mining and income stuff

(14:48:22) gigx@goonfleet.com: since most of my players are in delve

(14:49:02) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/55ffc3eb: our finance team is really good, which you maybe already know

(14:49:10) gigx@goonfleet.com: I know that

(14:49:33) gigx@goonfleet.com: yesterday some guys droped about 7 large towers for moon minning

(14:49:50) gigx@goonfleet.com: and I realy want to see from GSF perspective

(14:49:58) gigx@goonfleet.com: what they are doing

(14:52:36) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/55ffc3eb: for reactions?

(14:52:43) gigx@goonfleet.com: yup

(14:53:04) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/55ffc3eb: we even have reaction guides how to setup the perfect towers + spreadsheets for proffit and such

(14:53:40) gigx@goonfleet.com: I know

(14:54:01) gigx@goonfleet.com: I started with industry guys to start building Battleships

(14:54:04) gigx@goonfleet.com: for alliance

(14:54:15) gigx@goonfleet.com: but there is also 1000+ ppl in alliance

(14:54:26) gigx@goonfleet.com: numbers are not like before

(14:55:04) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/55ffc3eb: yep also that

(14:58:11) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/55ffc3eb: ofcourse we want to see you have numbers first ofcourse if you see my point

(14:58:27) gigx@goonfleet.com: sure

(14:58:29) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/55ffc3eb: but I will try to make point about getting you guys more tech if you look dirty poor

(14:59:19) gigx@goonfleet.com: Look I realy want to see from your side

(14:59:25) gigx@goonfleet.com: whats going on with co2 income

[SLYCE is recruiting]

By March 6th, Aryth had pegged the right answer.. Our recommendations for action were ignored, but we’ll get to that later. Much later.

On leadership, April 3rd, 2013

(10:11:20) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/f906471a: the thing that is going with co2 now it isn ´t going to stay the serbian group of maf... friends anymore. With this growth it will be more.

(10:12:48) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/f906471a: It a large group of players under the banner of CO2 leaded by you

(10:13:40) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/f906471a: leading an larger alliance is different then a small one

(10:13:58) gigx@goonfleet.com: true

(10:15:34) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/f906471a: The changes or things best to lead a bigger alliance, mittens wrote a nice tips and tricks for it. http://www.tentonham...ve/spymaster/88 Read this and if you have any questions please ask them. They cover most of things that will make co2 stronger.

(10:21:01) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/f906471a: I hope this helps

(10:21:15) gigx@goonfleet.com: reading

(10:21:22) gigx@goonfleet.com: interesting

(10:37:56) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/f906471a: oke good

(11:03:03) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/f906471a: any questions or remarks on the article?

(11:03:21) gigx@goonfleet.com: well I readed

(11:03:26) gigx@goonfleet.com: and its very good

(11:03:45) gigx@goonfleet.com: need to put everything on paper

This was also when we started getting contacts from corporations within the quickly growing CO2 that they were sick of being bossed around and being treated like children by CO2 leadership. Some of those corps are still with CO2, some are not. Throughout it all, Sara Rae and CD smoothed tensions and made peace. He attempted to help Gigx and others in CO2 hone their leadership abilities, abilities they’d need to manage their growing alliance. In all respects, Sara went above and beyond the call of duty as a diplomat to integrate CO2 and help them navigate the complexities of coalition life. It is not overstatement to say that his support of CO2 was key to their growth during this period, as much as the assets of space and moons that they’d been given. Back to the logs.

Sebastien Saintfrusquin was added to coalition coordination channels on April 7th, 2013.

A year into their tenure in the coalition, we were still running their IT for them. We offered to help them set up their own stuff. May 22nd, 2013.

(8:43:12 AM) sebastien_saintfrusquin@goonfleet.com/Heritier: Serbian culture, their version of IT is the messenger pigeon...

(8:43:45 AM) Nina Blaze: lol

(8:44:17 AM) sebastien_saintfrusquin@goonfleet.com/Heritier: Pretty sure we don't have that

(8:45:39 AM) sebastien_saintfrusquin@goonfleet.com/Heritier: Getting us a forum was already such an achievement, I wouldn't expect us to get something that awesome before next year or so...

(8:48:18 AM) Nina Blaze: lol

(8:48:19 AM) Nina Blaze: fair enough

(8:48:27 AM) Nina Blaze: let me see if I can find some dudes to help with that

(8:48:33 AM) Nina Blaze: do you guys have ~anITguy~ in general?

(8:48:47 AM) sebastien_saintfrusquin@goonfleet.com/Heritier: That's a very good question

(8:50:49 AM) Nina Blaze: so, going forward though

(8:50:50 AM) sebastien_saintfrusquin@goonfleet.com/Heritier: Our TS is run by BAT, so literally by you guys

(8:50:53 AM) Nina Blaze: lol

(8:51:03 AM) Nina Blaze: fair enough

(8:51:33 AM) sebastien_saintfrusquin@goonfleet.com/Heritier: Beside that, gigx either is the guy or will designate someone for it

(8:51:53 AM) Nina Blaze: CO2, comparatively is very small alliance. So these sorts of things are expected to happen as you ~grow~

(8:51:59 AM) Nina Blaze: yeah, I'll talk with Gigx some about it

(8:52:03 AM) Nina Blaze: see if we can help

And this is where the Fountain War kicks off.

More mentorship, Seb getting started with coordination. June 6th, 2013.

(22:43:54) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/813ed2b7: are you backseating because I saw you in the command channel?

(22:50:39) sebastien_saintfrusquin@goonfleet.com/Heritier: not exaclty

(22:50:49) sebastien_saintfrusquin@goonfleet.com/Heritier: I talked with theadj

(22:51:44) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/813ed2b7: and?

(22:51:56) sebastien_saintfrusquin@goonfleet.com/Heritier: and since I have little experience he told me to be on command chan

(22:52:03) sebastien_saintfrusquin@goonfleet.com/Heritier: as much as possible

(22:52:15) sebastien_saintfrusquin@goonfleet.com/Heritier: so basically I'm an apprenctice

(22:52:45) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/813ed2b7: ah ofcourse

(22:52:49) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/813ed2b7: got to start somewhere

(22:52:54) sebastien_saintfrusquin@goonfleet.com/Heritier: yep

(23:09:43) sebastien_saintfrusquin@goonfleet.com/Heritier: I'm moved

(23:09:56) sebastien_saintfrusquin@goonfleet.com/Heritier: CO2 commited ALL its supers here, all 10 of them

(23:10:01) sebastien_saintfrusquin@goonfleet.com/Heritier: I could cry

On the 20th of June, CO2 killed a Black Legion Tower in the north. For context, Black Legion had been hitting our assets in the north while we were fighting in Fountain. The war was not going well in the south, and bouncing back and forth was severely hurting our ability to either defend our space or prosecute the war. After Elo Knight wiped out our TFI fleet, we signed a merc contract with Black Legion, effectively eliminating the threat to our back yard, and allowing us to focus on Fountain completely. This was important as we were still very much outnumbered in Fountain, and losing ground.

After the contract was signed, Gigx pulled CO2 back to “eliminate hostile towers” in the north, which were of course the old staging towers Black Legion had been using to hit our holdings. With BL under contract, there was no threat from those staging towers, but Gigx temporary pulled his forces from the war--and jeopardized the coalition’s chances in the war and our newly signed merc contract with BL--to appease his pride.

This was the first sign that CO2’s mentality had started to shift away from “how can we help the coalition and prove ourselves” to “fuck you, got mine.”

Wherein we, for the first time, see Gigx’s true greed on display. For some additional context, this was after the Tech nerf, and r64’s and space was being reshuffled around the entire coalition after the Fountain War. We’d also lost a fair number of moon holdings in the north which we had not yet taken back. The realities of the coalition and the war came second, from here on out it’s all CO2 self interest and only escalates. Note the excessive tone change: August 26th, 2013.

23:41:01) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/77369eaf: Hey dude

(23:41:06) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/77369eaf: sup I hear you are not happy?

(23:41:48) gigx@goonfleet.com: Ofcourse I`m not happy

(23:41:57) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/77369eaf: why ?

(23:42:13) gigx@goonfleet.com: Fountain war ended

(23:42:21) gigx@goonfleet.com: we got loses we spend isk

(23:42:24) gigx@goonfleet.com: but ok for what

(23:42:33) gigx@goonfleet.com: to go now on another deployment

(23:42:55) gigx@goonfleet.com: and not getting anything

(23:43:09) gigx@goonfleet.com: I`m not greedy

(23:43:11) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/77369eaf: we never expected to take more then fountain but now that it will trown in our lap

(23:43:16) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/77369eaf: we are going to take it

(23:43:28) gigx@goonfleet.com: Do you know how many R64 co2 have

(23:43:31) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/77369eaf: and we want to do spoils at once and not do fountain en then delve

(23:43:34) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/77369eaf: I know dude

(23:43:38) gigx@goonfleet.com: 1

(23:43:48) gigx@goonfleet.com: BL and 401k took all of them

(23:43:55) gigx@goonfleet.com: and when we started to getting back

(23:44:19) gigx@goonfleet.com: I got info that GSF want us to stop taking our moons back from venal

(23:44:34) gigx@goonfleet.com: we went to fountain with one r64

(23:44:45) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/77369eaf: but you knew about the situation in delve right from the autocrat channel?

(23:45:33) gigx@goonfleet.com: nope

(23:45:36) gigx@goonfleet.com: I dont know

(23:45:41) gigx@goonfleet.com: and also I didnt ask

(23:45:58) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/77369eaf: its has been talked about it in the channel from what I know

(23:46:07) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/77369eaf: so I thought that you knew about the situation

(23:47:12) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/77369eaf: like with the tribute/vale war

(23:47:17) gigx@goonfleet.com: I know what mittani saying on skype

(23:47:20) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/77369eaf: we waited with spoils till we had vale also

(23:47:27) gigx@goonfleet.com: but I also see what other guys talking about spoils

(23:47:37) gigx@goonfleet.com: and how much moons they already have

(23:47:38) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/77369eaf: so far only li3 and fa got their spoils

(23:47:45) gigx@goonfleet.com: and how much they will get

(23:47:53) gigx@goonfleet.com: what should I talk on skype

(23:48:04) gigx@goonfleet.com: I can just read

(23:48:33) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/77369eaf: 1sec restarting jabber its hanging

(23:50:17) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/81b8d987: sorry I can´t do much about this situation

(23:50:21) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/81b8d987: its not in my hands

(23:50:28) gigx@goonfleet.com: ok who can do

(23:50:28) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/81b8d987: its all comming from higher up the chain

(23:50:51) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/81b8d987: talk to mittens or draghkar

(23:50:54) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/81b8d987: because I would like to help

(23:51:03) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/81b8d987: but my hands are tight also

(23:51:24) gigx@goonfleet.com: CO2 helped alot

(23:51:30) gigx@goonfleet.com: we are always with CFC

(23:51:36) gigx@goonfleet.com: with numbers we have

(23:51:47) gigx@goonfleet.com: I think we are doing very good

(23:52:05) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/81b8d987: you helped with numbers but it wasnt really good if you looked at the rest

(23:52:09) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/81b8d987: compared to the others

(23:52:36) gigx@goonfleet.com: Other alliances have more resourse

(23:52:40) gigx@goonfleet.com: and more space

(23:52:50) gigx@goonfleet.com: I cant recruit

(23:53:01) gigx@goonfleet.com: because I dont have place where to put new ppl

Hmm… I wonder what this could be about. Finance directors trying to force people out and gain control? December 22nd, 2013

11:09:15) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/f1bbb852: Hey dude

(11:09:17) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/f1bbb852: whats going on?

(11:10:15) sebastien_saintfrusquin@goonfleet.com/Heritier: nothing much for me

(11:10:23) sebastien_saintfrusquin@goonfleet.com/Heritier: some internal drama for the alliance

(11:10:35) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/f1bbb852: so I heard

(11:10:55) sebastien_saintfrusquin@goonfleet.com/Heritier: I happen to be apolitical as they come, so everything I know is hearsay since I'm very rarely involved in such matters

(11:11:28) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/f1bbb852: yeah I know maybe better at times

(11:11:43) sebastien_saintfrusquin@goonfleet.com/Heritier: seems like shadow directorship (basically the main money makers) are pushing out the actual directors one by one, from what I can see

(11:12:17) sebastien_saintfrusquin@goonfleet.com/Heritier: and if what I hear is true, gigX totally blundered yesterday by trying to wash his hands from the issue one time too many

(11:12:21) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/f1bbb852: you mean mmarlon?

(11:12:51) sebastien_saintfrusquin@goonfleet.com/Heritier: exalien more than mmarlon I think

(11:12:58) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/f1bbb852: ah oke

(11:13:01) sebastien_saintfrusquin@goonfleet.com/Heritier: but mmarlon wants exalien to stay

(11:13:20) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/f1bbb852: so pushes more for exalien then the directors

(11:13:34) sebastien_saintfrusquin@goonfleet.com/Heritier: pushes more for conciliation I'd say

(11:13:54) sebastien_saintfrusquin@goonfleet.com/Heritier: and exalien is not very conciliatory

(11:14:03) sebastien_saintfrusquin@goonfleet.com/Heritier: so this ain't working

(11:14:10) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/f1bbb852: so it will keep happing

(11:14:17) sebastien_saintfrusquin@goonfleet.com/Heritier: not really

(11:14:54) sebastien_saintfrusquin@goonfleet.com/Heritier: gigX tried to take the high road yesterday and told everyone to stop the drama, but it will cost us our most valuable directors I'm afraid

(11:16:36) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/f1bbb852: I would be really sad if it would end like this

(11:16:49) sebastien_saintfrusquin@goonfleet.com/Heritier: yeah

(11:16:57) sebastien_saintfrusquin@goonfleet.com/Heritier: no idea how shit can go south so damn fast

(11:17:09) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/f1bbb852: yeah I¨m asking myself that also

(11:17:27) sebastien_saintfrusquin@goonfleet.com/Heritier: do you have at least good news on the war front ?

(11:17:42) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/f1bbb852: we have a plan on how to defeat the shpere

(11:18:14) sebastien_saintfrusquin@goonfleet.com/Heritier: tell me it involves a guy cutting the power at some houses in deep MidWest

More on that, same date.

(11:11:16) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/f1bbb852: Morning gigx

(11:11:53) gigx@goonfleet.com: Morning Sara

(11:12:07) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/f1bbb852: how is it going?

(11:13:10) gigx@goonfleet.com: Well we finished moving into Curse

(11:13:22) gigx@goonfleet.com: now waiting for titan

(11:13:44) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/f1bbb852: ah oke so waiting that you can bridge from hemin

(11:13:52) gigx@goonfleet.com: yea

(11:14:38) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/f1bbb852: I hear there are some problems with you guys? Whats going on?

(11:15:07) gigx@goonfleet.com: What kind of problems?

(11:15:16) gigx@goonfleet.com: You need to be little directly

(11:16:12) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/f1bbb852: With missy and da winci apparently

(11:16:23) gigx@goonfleet.com: ohh

(11:16:31) gigx@goonfleet.com: Well some stupid issues

(11:16:35) gigx@goonfleet.com: that came to me

(11:17:14) gigx@goonfleet.com: I punished all involved with ISK

(11:17:45) gigx@goonfleet.com: Now Da Winci is mad

(11:18:01) gigx@goonfleet.com: because Da Winci was requesting kicking guy from alliance

(11:18:17) gigx@goonfleet.com: which will evolve to leaving one good corp in co2

(11:18:52) gigx@goonfleet.com: and also destroy corp who is making income in alliance

(11:20:37) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/f1bbb852: Yeah this is not fun or good

(11:20:57) sara_rae@goonfleet.com/f1bbb852: both options

(11:21:13) gigx@goonfleet.com: Da Winci needed to request CEO meeting

(11:21:21) gigx@goonfleet.com: and talk with CEO of that member

(11:21:33) gigx@goonfleet.com: not fighting with member

28th of January, 2014. Seb loses a titan, CO2 takes up a donation drive to replace it since the alliance is still mysteriously poor. Ongoing at this time, the Curse War in the south, which CO2 had withdrawn from to again fight Black Legion over towers in Venal. Then Sky Marshal Blawrf Mctaggart brokered a compromise between CO2 and Lucia to get CO2 to fight with the coalition again in the south.

Apparently real life stuff is okay in CO2? Here’s hoping it was idle boasting. February 12th, 2014.

[19:41:05] SaraRae: Evening gigx

[19:41:11] SaraRae: we banned some bl spies in co2

[19:41:19] Darko Subotic - gigX: hmmm

[19:41:24] Darko Subotic - gigX: do we know who are they

[19:41:33] SaraRae: I have a list

[19:41:39] Darko Subotic - gigX: can you show me

[19:41:46] SaraRae: CO2 - Danijel Aegon Zagorec - Singu from Black Legion

CO2 - Keira Kurvora - Zi'el Aubaris from Black Legion

[19:42:49] Darko Subotic - gigX: Digi told me

[19:43:01] Darko Subotic - gigX: Danijel Aegon is from Croatia

[19:43:11] Darko Subotic - gigX: my guys founded his street address

[19:43:23] Darko Subotic - gigX: so we waiting him now to login

[19:43:34] SaraRae: and if he logs in what then?

[19:43:48] Darko Subotic - gigX: we checking one more thing

[19:43:53] Darko Subotic - gigX: but anyway

[19:44:04] Darko Subotic - gigX: we will visit him soon

[19:44:49] SaraRae: irl?

[19:44:56] Darko Subotic - gigX: ofcourse

[19:44:59] Darko Subotic - gigX: he is close

[19:45:19] Darko Subotic - gigX: We cannot punish him in game

[19:45:24] Darko Subotic - gigX: but irl we can

Feburary 18th, 2014, TheJudge added as CO2 diplomat.

Theadj having a perfectly reasonable response upon finding out Lucian James was in CO2 and in his channels. For those of you who know Theadj, you’ll know that this was him being exceptionally restrained and diplomatic. March 6th, 2014.

(6:48:38 PM) da_winci@goonfleet.com/69eb8cee: would you care to elaborate on the Lucian James incident few hours ago please?

(6:49:00 PM) da_winci@goonfleet.com/69eb8cee: i'm aware that he made some stupid mistakes

(6:49:59 PM) da_winci@goonfleet.com/69eb8cee: so i'm totally okay with him being kicked from gfsc

(6:50:46 PM) da_winci@goonfleet.com/69eb8cee: the other part of the conversation and the banning from RC are uncalled for I think

(10:47:38 PM) theadj@goonfleet.com/cd992850: that piece of shit shouldn't even be in the CFC, much less on our services

(3/6/2014 3:09:44 AM) da_winci@goonfleet.com/9c9b5a44: I'm sure you'll find bigger turds within the cfc. For now he is part of my alliance and you might start to rethink the way you apparently choose to talk to your allies.

(3:10:44 AM) da_winci@goonfleet.com/9c9b5a44: Its not the first time your language isn't really what I expect it to be for a guy in your position

(3:11:31 AM) theadj@goonfleet.com/cd992850: you are free to complain to CD about it

(3:11:36 AM) theadj@goonfleet.com/cd992850: results will be the same

(3:11:47 AM) da_winci@goonfleet.com/9c9b5a44: nice umbrella you have there

(3:11:54 AM) da_winci@goonfleet.com/9c9b5a44: I was talking to you

(3:12:05 AM) da_winci@goonfleet.com/9c9b5a44: already had my talk with CD

(3:12:14 AM) theadj@goonfleet.com/cd992850: it's almost like he's a persona non grata who got into an ally, which we can't do anything about

(3:12:18 AM) theadj@goonfleet.com/cd992850: doesn't mean I have to tolerate him

(3:12:29 AM) theadj@goonfleet.com/cd992850: you're free to recruit who you wish

(3:12:45 AM) theadj@goonfleet.com/cd992850: just don't be surprised when people like him dont' get a warm welcome

(3:12:50 AM) da_winci@goonfleet.com/9c9b5a44: true, but you went really out of your way to ban him

(3:13:01 AM) da_winci@goonfleet.com/9c9b5a44: the RC access he needs to have

(3:13:02 AM) theadj@goonfleet.com/cd992850: im thorough

(3:13:15 AM) da_winci@goonfleet.com/9c9b5a44: no, that was overreacting

More finance stuff, March 17th, 2014.

(4:32:24 PM) Gicer: Shame, So I needed to talk to you or Da Winci about mmarlon.

(4:33:44 PM) gigx@goonfleet.com/fdaffd1c: yes you can

(4:34:23 PM) Gicer: Ok, am I right that he runs most of your POS setup and moon mining?

(4:34:52 PM) gigx@goonfleet.com/fdaffd1c: yes

(4:34:56 PM) gigx@goonfleet.com/fdaffd1c: more then 400 towers

(4:35:04 PM) Gicer: Wow,

(4:35:52 PM) Gicer: Ok, so aryth think's that hes keeping a LOT of your minerals and keeping money from you. Like "fuck Goons" ammounts of money.

(4:36:28 PM) Gicer: From looking at the finances, do you want me to look into it for you. Or would you rather talk to him yourself?

(4:36:56 PM) gigx@goonfleet.com/fdaffd1c: I realy didnt undestand how he doing this

(4:37:09 PM) gigx@goonfleet.com/fdaffd1c: but lots of people who working on those 400 towers

(4:37:17 PM) gigx@goonfleet.com/fdaffd1c: taking money for that work

(4:37:26 PM) gigx@goonfleet.com/fdaffd1c: and sharing 50/50 with alliance

(4:42:08 PM) Gicer: So you let people take 50% of POS materials?

(4:42:30 PM) gigx@goonfleet.com/fdaffd1c: They making profit on empty moons

(4:42:48 PM) gigx@goonfleet.com/fdaffd1c: They buying moon stuff from jita

(4:42:52 PM) gigx@goonfleet.com/fdaffd1c: react in co2 space

(4:42:57 PM) gigx@goonfleet.com/fdaffd1c: and sharing profit 50/50

(4:48:52 PM) gigx@goonfleet.com/fdaffd1c: sec let me find finance report

(4:48:54 PM) gigx@goonfleet.com/fdaffd1c: for last month

(4:48:59 PM) Gicer: Ok

(4:53:55 PM) Gicer: Here's my concern. How do you hold people to 50/50. I mean your method of running a POS network is very similar to running a corruption network dealing with backhanders. And the fact is that corruption will never stick to a 50/50 rule.

(4:54:07 PM) Gicer: Aryth thinks you guys should be a lot richer than you are.

(4:56:12 PM) gigx@goonfleet.com/fdaffd1c: I never go deep into those reaction stuff

(4:56:32 PM) gigx@goonfleet.com/fdaffd1c: I know that people who hold 10-15 towers each in mmarlon corp

(4:56:34 PM) Gicer: Well, it's quite possible mmarlon is richer than CO2

(4:56:44 PM) gigx@goonfleet.com/fdaffd1c: getting paid for 1bil isk per month

(4:57:06 PM) gigx@goonfleet.com/fdaffd1c: MMarlon was always richer then CO2

(4:57:17 PM) gigx@goonfleet.com/fdaffd1c: he hold plex on jita market

(4:57:21 PM) gigx@goonfleet.com/fdaffd1c: and lots of stuff

From “we don’t need that much” to “give me allied space. March 17th, 21014.

(5:15:20 PM) gigx@goonfleet.com/fdaffd1c: Do you know what plans TNT have about tribute

(5:15:32 PM) gigx@goonfleet.com/fdaffd1c: they holding basicly 2 constellations

(5:15:38 PM) Gicer: What do you mean

(5:15:49 PM) gigx@goonfleet.com/fdaffd1c: and one of those have 0 stations

(5:16:54 PM) gigx@goonfleet.com/fdaffd1c: http://evemaps.dotla.../Tribute/X-VN63

(5:17:35 PM) gigx@goonfleet.com/fdaffd1c: We preparing Gallente egg for NJ4X

(5:17:43 PM) Gicer: I'm not sure what plans they have for it, I could ask their diplo to enquire if you want.

(5:18:12 PM) gigx@goonfleet.com/fdaffd1c: I`m planing to put gallente outpost at entrance of tribute

(5:18:17 PM) gigx@goonfleet.com/fdaffd1c: only nj4 left

(5:18:34 PM) gigx@goonfleet.com/fdaffd1c: and that constellation is also empty

(5:18:46 PM) Gicer: So your interested in the const for CO2?

(5:19:08 PM) gigx@goonfleet.com/fdaffd1c: well I was watching that const for 3 days

(5:19:10 PM) gigx@goonfleet.com/fdaffd1c: noone is using

(5:19:43 PM) gigx@goonfleet.com/fdaffd1c: I would put 2 stations in that const

(5:20:06 PM) Gicer: I can't say but let me ask those questions and get back to you ok?

(5:20:07 PM) gigx@goonfleet.com/fdaffd1c: so intel from UMI toward middle of Tribute will be better

(5:20:19 PM) Gicer: I understand.

(5:20:25 PM) gigx@goonfleet.com/fdaffd1c: yea you can ask

And hrm, more of this MMarlon guy… March 30th, 2014.

FR 2014.03 and farewell

From: MMarlon

Sent: 2014.03.30 17:59

To:

Short preliminary financial report for march 2014:

https://docs.google....QXc&usp=sharing

this one is for last year: http://www.point.com...p/CO2FR2013.pdf

this is my last public financial report, as of yesterday I was discharged from my duties as FCO.

It’s been so many years. I had a single task to fill our wallets. I have done. Older amongst you can tell you where when and how the job was done good. Or bad. Irrelevant, let’s go ahead.

I wish you all good game and prosper; and it’s in the best time imaginable one can leave, it’s peace, years of work have filled alliance wallet, and the rules set will bring you steady and very good income for long time ahead.

Thank you, good game.

Marlon

The short version of this story is this: MMarlon had been systematically obliterating CO2 finances to the tune of hundreds of billions of isk. It was why, no matter how much space they had, no matter how much we tried to help them set up best practices, no matter how many moons they had, they were perpetually poor. This is the advice we gave them on March 6th, 2013, that they were being robbed. It wasn’t until a year and one month later, when Gicer, formerly of CO2, told them the same thing that they finally took action on it. The greed CO2 had displayed during and following the Fountain War was due to the mismanagement of their own finances, which we had tried repeatedly to help them with. At this point though, the damage to their mentality as an alliance was done. They saw people around them--people who better managed their finances, in many cases had less coalition spoils, and didn’t get robbed of hundreds of billions of isk--affording fancy things like basic SRP. Their conclusion was not to better manage their money, but that they were being cheated out of space and income by the coalition. Their gross mismanagement was somehow our fault, despite our warnings.

The worst part of all of this was how smug Aryth was when it finally went down. He is to this day insufferable if you mention this particular topic.

Between March and July, Da Winci repeatedly nagged us for more space, more of everything, and reiterated how much better they were than the rest of the allies in the coalition. In mid-July, the diplomat that had spent so much time and effort helping them over the previous two years resigned due to real life reasons, and they were assigned new diplomats.

Following is that conversation, wherein Da Winci himself directly credits CD and our efforts with helping CO2 grow, July 20th, 2014:

5:12:32 PM da_winci [CO2]: Howdy

5:12:49 PM da_winci [CO2]: if and when possible, could you spare me a minute?

5:13:26 PM da_winci [CO2]: have some things I'd like to discuss regarding the recent diplo shuffles

5:17:05 PM sion_kumitomo: hey, what's up

5:18:58 PM da_winci [CO2]: I was wondering what happened to Sara - how come we didnt get informed - the lack of weight for the assigned new diplos

5:21:06 PM da_winci [CO2]: to bluntly state my questions ..

5:21:27 PM sion_kumitomo: didn't sara or one of the other diplomats contact you about sara quitting?

5:22:27 PM da_winci [CO2]: well to be fair, I was on vacation the past 2 weeks. So I didnt have my finger on the pulse

5:23:14 PM da_winci [CO2]: but I find it rather strange that Ektony convoed me a while ago with some pretty noobish questions

5:23:40 PM da_winci [CO2]: and next thing i know he's the new Goon diplo for CO2

5:24:29 PM da_winci [CO2]: as for Sara, I did notice a drop in activity lately, but nothing that would have me conclude he was quitting

5:25:34 PM sion_kumitomo: ektony is a new diplomat. it's a lot to absorb to bring a new diplomat up to speed and takes time. sara started out the same way, if you remeber

5:26:02 PM sion_kumitomo: has ektony not being doing a good job or something?

5:26:58 PM da_winci [CO2]: Frankly, if you (he) assume that GIH is still our home system you (he) didnt do his homework properly

5:27:27 PM da_winci [CO2]: and my diplos are telling me he isnt really of much help in general

5:28:04 PM da_winci [CO2]: the second diplo I dont even know by name

5:28:04 PM sion_kumitomo: which diplos are telling you that, and did they say why?

5:28:35 PM da_winci [CO2]: basically all of them

5:28:50 PM da_winci [CO2]: they feel as if they need to hold him by the hand

5:29:03 PM sion_kumitomo: in what respect?

5:30:36 PM da_winci [CO2]: Generally speaking. Sara could get things sorted. Most encounters with Ektony end in us sorting it ourselves

5:30:45 PM da_winci [CO2]: dont get me wrong tho

5:31:10 PM sion_kumitomo: what encounters?

5:31:21 PM sion_kumitomo: give me some specifics to work with here

5:32:58 PM da_winci [CO2]: Not knowing how to sort Jabber issues - not knowing if we can transfer sov (and how to go about getting more in Trib) - Unbanning CO2 members - Having background on some people

5:33:46 PM da_winci [CO2]: very specific stuff I (we) could discuss with Sara, but I feel cannot be handled by him

5:33:57 PM sion_kumitomo: that's all procedural stuff that comes with time. diplomats do not spring fully formed from the head of zeus

5:34:26 PM sion_kumitomo: the other diplomat assigned to co2 is konrad kane. have you talked with him about any of this?

5:34:46 PM da_winci [CO2]: nope, no introductions have been made yet

5:35:10 PM sion_kumitomo: that's curious, I'm going to have to look into that

5:35:32 PM sion_kumitomo: sara was a good diplomat, but he also had two and half years of experience

5:37:27 PM da_winci [CO2]: C , the general feeling I'm getting from this is that we, according to what I think our position is, are not represented in a decent way (fair because my English lacks to convey the nuance there)

5:37:52 PM da_winci [CO2]: *decent because...

5:38:25 PM sion_kumitomo: co2 is a valuable and capable alliance, you don't really need to worry too much about representation

5:38:58 PM sion_kumitomo: that said, if you do have concerns about stuff, you're welcome to be like "yo, this is a big deal"

5:39:16 PM sion_kumitomo: if there are outstanding issues that I'm not aware of, I'm happy to add them to my list

5:39:50 PM da_winci [CO2]: I myself and we as an alliance do not go running around screaming that 'stuff' is a big deal

5:40:24 PM da_winci [CO2]: but I do find it important enough to bring it on the table

5:40:28 PM sion_kumitomo: well, a new diplomat asking questions and trying to understand things is more preferable in my opinion than one trying to tell you what to do right off the bat

5:40:42 PM sion_kumitomo: he's trying to understand and catch up, and that's a good sign

5:41:22 PM sion_kumitomo: as for his perceived 'internal weight,' that's not how we operate. he'll be listened to as any diplomat is listened to

5:42:04 PM sion_kumitomo: that is, if your concern is that co2's concerns will suddenly drop off the coalition radar due to sara's resignation, I can assure you that won't be the case

5:42:28 PM sion_kumitomo: which is why I'm more concerned about the whole lack of contact thing as opposed to the asking questions thing

5:43:17 PM da_winci [CO2]: We are pretty adept at wielding our Serbian battle-axes. If we really want your attention i'm sure we could get it ￼

5:44:39 PM da_winci [CO2]: but yes, I anticipated a more active approach from both of them. Sara knew perfectly that regarding politics I'm the one to talk to

5:45:05 PM da_winci [CO2]: And by doing that he helped CO2 to grow and prosper

5:45:26 PM sion_kumitomo: sara did great work, yeah

5:45:45 PM sion_kumitomo: he was also there from the beginning when you guys joined up with the cfc

5:45:46 PM da_winci [CO2]: can only nod in agreement

5:46:44 PM da_winci [CO2]: yes, and Ektony was part of CO2 even. But i'm not getting the impression he grasped (or grasps) what we are trying to achieve

5:46:56 PM sion_kumitomo: he may not, he's just started after all

5:47:47 PM da_winci [CO2]: I'll give him some time to get to know the inner workings, promise

5:47:57 PM sion_kumitomo: experience matters, particularly in diplomacy

5:48:09 PM da_winci [CO2]: but I do expect a more active approach really

5:48:13 PM sion_kumitomo: I have high standards myself. if he doesn't meet them I'll fire him

5:48:38 PM sion_kumitomo: you and me both. I expect my diplomats to be proactive and engaged

5:49:07 PM sion_kumitomo: so we'll see. I'll talk to him about it all and we'll see over the next couple months heh

5:49:24 PM da_winci [CO2]: appreciated!

5:49:29 PM da_winci [CO2]: one other thing tho

5:50:06 PM da_winci [CO2]: how negotiable is a sov gain after Delve?

5:50:32 PM sion_kumitomo: sov gain for you in tribute I assume?

5:51:11 PM da_winci [CO2]: well, to push all my happy buttons... yes, that is for Trib yes

5:51:29 PM sion_kumitomo: I'm not sure

5:51:43 PM sion_kumitomo: I'll have ektony look into it though

5:51:49 PM da_winci [CO2]: tho I discussed possible Vale scenario's with Sara

5:52:02 PM sion_kumitomo: may as well throw him to the sharks, into the deep end, into the fire etc.

5:52:19 PM sion_kumitomo: plus then he'll be forced to talk to you

5:52:42 PM da_winci [CO2]: no wonder you are head of CD

5:52:52 PM sion_kumitomo: because I'm a right bastard?

5:53:13 PM da_winci [CO2]: you could be Serbian for all I know ￼

5:53:28 PM sion_kumitomo: hahaha

5:53:50 PM sion_kumitomo: mittani calls me a 'ruthless pragmatist'

5:53:55 PM da_winci [CO2]: on the side, you convinced me with the 'data entry point' piece for TMC

5:54:25 PM sion_kumitomo: you read it?

5:54:39 PM da_winci [CO2]: ofc I did

5:54:49 PM da_winci [CO2]: solid reasoning

5:54:56 PM sion_kumitomo: well thanks dude

5:55:20 PM da_winci [CO2]: I appreciate a working brain, ruthless or not

5:55:50 PM da_winci [CO2]: and I do like my diplos to be 'real politiker'

5:56:20 PM sion_kumitomo: preaching to the choir

5:56:40 PM da_winci [CO2]: so I figured you'd understand my concern about the weight of representatives

5:56:41 PM sion_kumitomo: realpolitik is a great policy expression for pragmatism

5:56:47 PM sion_kumitomo: I do indeed

5:57:10 PM sion_kumitomo: how this usually works is that I task a diplomat to look into something in detail, then they present it and we figure out where to go from there

5:57:32 PM da_winci [CO2]: I figured that one out myself yes

5:58:14 PM sion_kumitomo: so the only person who listens to and weighs that stuff is myself with input from the other diplomats, doesn't have to go through any kind of committee or whatever

5:59:07 PM da_winci [CO2]: sounds good - forgive me if I try to channel said person for the time to come

5:59:13 PM sion_kumitomo: particularly with new people, I try to train them to be independent so they can find their diplomatic swagger sooner. which means mistakes along the way sure, but leads to guys like sara too

5:59:34 PM sion_kumitomo: it's no worries dude. you want the best for your alliance, I get that

6:00:06 PM da_winci [CO2]: I'll eagerly tap on your shoulder when I feel he is drowning in something then

6:00:36 PM sion_kumitomo: and I will eagerly kick stuff back to him if I think he can handle it or if it'll help him grow

6:00:53 PM da_winci [CO2]: deal

6:00:59 PM sion_kumitomo:

6:01:03 PM da_winci [CO2]: I think we are on the same page here

6:01:19 PM sion_kumitomo: yeah

6:01:25 PM sion_kumitomo: I'll talk to them both too

6:01:40 PM sion_kumitomo: so we'll see how they do post that talk

6:01:49 PM da_winci [CO2]: I'll leave you sifting through your data entry points then

6:02:01 PM sion_kumitomo: never not

6:02:11 PM sion_kumitomo: thanks for bringing these concerns to my attention too

6:02:28 PM da_winci [CO2]: much appreciated for lending me your ear(s)

6:03:03 PM da_winci [CO2]: will keep my diplos in line also

6:03:19 PM da_winci [CO2]: have a nice evening there

6:03:37 PM sion_kumitomo: I shall, I think I'm going to take a walk and get some ice cream at some point. seems summery

6:03:45 PM sion_kumitomo: hope you have a good night yourself

At around this time, we started spinning up PBLRD, our fantastically profitable coalition rental program. The ‘coalition’ part of that is important, while we were running the program, the actual profits were distributed amongst the coalition. This meant that we repeatedly denied CO2’s requests for more space in Vale of the Silent since it was being used for coalition income. CO2 advocated that their personal income as an alliance mattered more than shared income across the coalition, and we politely replied that the entire coalition took that space, and should benefit in the best way possible. CO2 spent months furious about this.

Note how greed, isk, and more of both are becoming themes here?

August 10th, 2014. We were again embroiled in war, and had again denied CO2’s request to have rental space shifted over to their personal holdings. Their response was to abandon our military efforts:

(10:18:03 AM) da_winci@goonfleet.com/10fd1cd7: Howdy man

(10:19:17 AM) da_winci@goonfleet.com/10fd1cd7: had very unnerving news from CD and GSOL yesterday so we are pulling out of Delve

(2:56:48 PM) blawrf_mctaggart@goonfleet.com/cawg: excuse me?

(2:57:36 PM) da_winci@goonfleet.com/10fd1cd7: giving you a heads up that CO2 will be pulling out in the days to come

(2:57:41 PM) da_winci@goonfleet.com/10fd1cd7: as we discussed

(2:59:07 PM) blawrf_mctaggart@goonfleet.com/cawg: throwing a hissy fit and weakening a strategic defensive campaign is probably not the way to go about this

(2:59:08 PM) blawrf_mctaggart@goonfleet.com/cawg: but w/e

(2:59:35 PM) da_winci@goonfleet.com/10fd1cd7: hissy fit?

(3:00:17 PM) da_winci@goonfleet.com/10fd1cd7: we discussed it weeks ago and came to the conclusion it would be wrapped up by now

(3:00:19 PM) blawrf_mctaggart@goonfleet.com/cawg: this is either you pulling out because you planned to a fortnight ago or you pulling out in reaction to a silly spat with CD

(3:00:28 PM) blawrf_mctaggart@goonfleet.com/cawg: and no, i never came to that conclusion

(3:00:36 PM) blawrf_mctaggart@goonfleet.com/cawg: it's pretty obvious that you're doing this to spite CD

(3:00:44 PM) blawrf_mctaggart@goonfleet.com/cawg: i'm trying to defend our fucking coalition here, winci

(3:01:31 PM) da_winci@goonfleet.com/10fd1cd7: and I feel there is very little love for the alliance that is pulling that defence

(3:01:44 PM) blawrf_mctaggart@goonfleet.com/cawg: bullshit

(3:01:49 PM) blawrf_mctaggart@goonfleet.com/cawg: i'm not even going to get into this conversation with you right now

(3:01:56 PM) blawrf_mctaggart@goonfleet.com/cawg: because you've angered me

(3:01:58 PM) blawrf_mctaggart@goonfleet.com/cawg: later.

No really, there’s no space. August 10th, 2014

6:04:46 AM da_winci [CO2]: Howdy man

6:06:48 AM da_winci [CO2]: as a follow-up on the monster-convo I had with Ektony yesterday I would like to have the conclusion(s) of that officially confirmed by you

8:43:24 AM sion_kumitomo: hey, what's up

8:44:25 AM da_winci [CO2]: apart from the convo I had with Ektony about sov not much

8:45:26 AM sion_kumitomo: literally been out drinking with goons since thursday

8:45:41 AM sion_kumitomo: bi-annual goonp thing

8:45:43 AM da_winci [CO2]: ouch, and now you get this on your plate

8:45:46 AM da_winci [CO2]: sorry for that

8:45:52 AM sion_kumitomo: is no worries

8:46:02 AM sion_kumitomo: just means I'm a bit behind on things mostly

8:46:13 AM sion_kumitomo: so what did you want to discuss exactly?

8:47:00 AM da_winci [CO2]: well had a 7 hour convo with him about sov and related things

8:48:10 AM da_winci [CO2]: and my understanding is in short this..

8:48:31 AM da_winci [CO2]: no systems will be handed out any longer (as in any)

8:48:48 AM da_winci [CO2]: regardless of effort and participation

8:49:26 AM da_winci [CO2]: also, it seems that all CONDI sov in both Vale and Trib is 'spoken for' by GSOL

8:50:33 AM da_winci [CO2]: that puts us (and others frankly) in a situation where it really doesnt matter what you do, gains are not to be had

8:50:59 AM da_winci [CO2]: are even not to be discussed

8:52:17 AM da_winci [CO2]: its a long read, but in short I dont see how participating gets us (or anyone) anything

8:52:43 AM sion_kumitomo: that's true broadly speaking across the whole cfc

8:52:43 AM da_winci [CO2]: I feel cheated basically

8:52:54 AM sion_kumitomo: well, let's look at it

8:53:15 AM sion_kumitomo: you remember the tribute war when you got your first sov from the cfc, right?

8:53:41 AM da_winci [CO2]: hardly, was a political noob back then

8:55:04 AM sion_kumitomo: back then, co2 got a constellation as sort of an investment toward future successes. at the same time, tnt got their first ever expansion of sov space in tribute as well

8:55:56 AM sion_kumitomo: you guys then proved yourselves, and ended up with basically all of tribute minus the tnt spoils holdings, aside from places where gsf has jb sov

8:56:14 AM sion_kumitomo: where you still have pve and moon rights, just not sov rights

8:56:47 AM sion_kumitomo: that is a substantial increase in holdings over a, on coalition time frames, short time frame

8:56:56 AM sion_kumitomo: for example, look at razor

8:57:17 AM sion_kumitomo: razor got tenal way way back during the branch war

8:57:30 AM sion_kumitomo: and has gotten no sov since

8:57:57 AM sion_kumitomo: this is not a case of "if you participate you'll get even more stuff" which was made abundantly clear after the last round of spoils

8:58:15 AM da_winci [CO2]: who'd need more then Tenal? ￼

9:01:39 AM sion_kumitomo: them, apparently, since they later took CE after killing IRC

9:02:58 AM sion_kumitomo: alright so that's the first thing, legacy spoils issues

9:03:13 AM da_winci [CO2]: sec

9:03:28 AM da_winci [CO2]: now Blarwf is shitting on my head

9:03:29 AM sion_kumitomo: ie, it's nuts to say to someone "oh sorry, you participation during that war no longer matters and your rewards are being taken away"

9:03:48 AM da_winci [CO2]: look, this is not cool anymore

9:04:41 AM da_winci [CO2]: if the overall reaction on what I feel is a justified request is getting lectured and shat on, I'll pass on this

9:05:31 AM sion_kumitomo: well sara rae apparently did you a massive disservice by not discussing how spoils and such work in the cfc

9:06:12 AM da_winci [CO2]: really, I still dont see a valid respons other than a) outright hostility or wordzzzz

9:06:54 AM da_winci [CO2]: If for any reason sov is no longer to be expected based on participation then state it

9:07:03 AM sion_kumitomo: http://evemaps.dotla...p/Tribute#npc24 I want you to look at that maps and tell me what you see

9:08:09 AM sion_kumitomo: okay look, we went over this after fountain and delve. there is no more sov to give, we're done. the only sov shuffling that has happened has been due to gents collapsing. that's it, we've hit our borders

9:08:43 AM sion_kumitomo: what you're asking for is to cannibalize other allied space, space which they too earned, and that is simply not going to happen

9:09:31 AM sion_kumitomo: the idea of the coalition is that we watch each other's backs and work toward the greater good. I'm not compromising on that principle

9:09:40 AM da_winci [CO2]: that was to be expected yes - a clear answer on that would have been sufficient to sort that

9:10:08 AM sion_kumitomo: goons would like more space too, we're by far the most crowded region in the game. fully /half/ of the entire population of the coalition lives in dek

9:10:34 AM sion_kumitomo: I don't even know why you want more space, it appears that the bulk of what you have isn't even getting used

9:11:00 AM da_winci [CO2]: based on what are coming to that conclusion?

9:11:38 AM sion_kumitomo: did you look at the dotlan links?

9:12:06 AM da_winci [CO2]: did yes, we're in Delve atm

9:12:35 AM da_winci [CO2]: would only prove we're active where we are supposed to be

9:12:56 AM sion_kumitomo: well, since you're pulling out, I'm sure I'll have more accurate data within the next few days, no?

9:13:31 AM sion_kumitomo: and we're in delve as well, usually for a system in dek to get colored red it takes about 20k kills per 24hours

9:13:56 AM sion_kumitomo: or roughly

9:14:11 AM sion_kumitomo: the entire region's worth of tribute ratting

9:14:33 AM sion_kumitomo: but, we make do, because we firmly believe that the greater good is worth our sacrifice

9:15:08 AM da_winci [CO2]: let's wrap this up. I have no intention of making a fool of myself in front of the Illuminati for much longer

9:15:34 AM sion_kumitomo: if you're now telling me that not only do you not value the greater good, but that you feel like you should have an ever expanding map blob, then we have reality adjustment that needs to happen

9:16:49 AM da_winci [CO2]: yes, the map blob - it's sad this is being boiled down to this

9:17:20 AM da_winci [CO2]: I will leave it for what it is

9:17:32 AM sion_kumitomo: well since you're attempting to sulk off without telling me what's actually going on, I'm rather left to fill in the blanks myself

9:18:37 AM da_winci [CO2]: I tried to make a case for expanding CO2, making sure that we could stay on the green side of things

9:19:14 AM da_winci [CO2]: It seems somehow I got myself in a corner I really dont want to be in

9:19:18 AM sion_kumitomo: the green side of things?

9:19:24 AM sion_kumitomo: what does that mean?

9:19:47 AM da_winci [CO2]: as in 'not red' when it comes to growth

9:20:48 AM sion_kumitomo: it isn't as if co2 is the only alliance that wants more space

9:21:15 AM sion_kumitomo: so does everyone else. but resources are finite, and so we have to make do as best as we can

9:22:28 AM sion_kumitomo: so you may not be gaining anything, but neither is anyone else. and you're not losing anything. which, under your misconception of shuffling things around based on pure participation, could be a real possibility. say, if fcon showed up massively to a war and decided they wanted tribute

9:22:57 AM da_winci [CO2]: I know - I'll back down from this - it's blowing up in my face and I feel no urge to go clean the mess I'm making

9:23:27 AM sion_kumitomo: this isn't a back down kind of thing. these are basic underpinnings of how the coalition works

9:23:56 AM sion_kumitomo: I'm not sure why sara rae didn't outline this stuff to you in the past, but it appears he didn't and may have made some unrealistic promises

9:24:38 AM da_winci [CO2]: he didnt. Sara was always very correct in pointing out the possibilities

9:25:23 AM da_winci [CO2]: I suppose I was being too focussed on finding ways around it

9:25:25 AM sion_kumitomo: well, then you know that the only reason you got more tribute space was because there was an influx of space to the coalition as a whole, correct?

9:26:05 AM sion_kumitomo: and now, there's no more space coming in, and won't be. so barring people being disbanded or kicked out, we all have to make do with what we have

9:26:07 AM da_winci [CO2]: It wasnt presented to me like that back then but yes

9:26:36 AM sion_kumitomo: well, yeah, you got more space due to your participation levels and the addition of more space, to be more accurate

9:27:32 AM da_winci [CO2]: indeed, and I had to literally drag it from GSOL who wouldnt have given us anything

9:27:44 AM sion_kumitomo: we added three regions with the fountain war, but with the need for rental isk and having a bit over a dozen alliances in the coalition, the real per alliance gains weren't huge

9:28:10 AM sion_kumitomo: yeah, I missed out on that spoils process due to being assigned elsewhere at the time. it was handled poorly

9:28:16 AM da_winci [CO2]: and all-in-all recent developments gave me a deja-vu

9:28:34 AM sion_kumitomo: deja vu in what sense?

9:29:54 AM da_winci [CO2]: the outlines where/are very familiar. Same discussions with new mantras. Back then al of Trib was 'strategic'. Now it was PBLRD

9:30:35 AM da_winci [CO2]: so I assumed I had to negotiate my way through the PBLRD mantra

9:30:57 AM da_winci [CO2]: and hopefully get similar results

9:31:24 AM da_winci [CO2]: I feel I misread the situation

9:31:51 AM da_winci [CO2]: so it IS time to back off from the issue

9:31:59 AM sion_kumitomo: if we're ever in a position where we add more space to the coalition due to whatever reason, we can revisit this stuff

9:32:22 AM sion_kumitomo: won't likely be due to war, will most likely be if a cfc alliance collapses

9:32:50 AM sion_kumitomo: though I mean if you want to wage sov war on people, I suppose that's an option that we could explore too

That was the last of that for a bit. There was some intermittent complaints from CO2 about the sov required for the jb network (pre-Phoebe and fatigue) but by that point we’d given them the rundown on why the coalition required a jb network and yes the sov was technically theirs and so were the moons and that map blobs don’t matter dozens of times. Gigx decided another war staging (Fountain, again) wasn’t worth fighting in, and un-deployed from the coalition back to Tribute to shoot towers in Venal again.

Meanwhile, while still agitating for more stuff in general and abandoning war efforts, Da Winci had no qualms about using threats of coalition reprisal to stave off attacks on their space. November 8th, 2014.

5:02:36 PM da_winci [CO2]: [22:47:12] Da Winci > howdy man

[22:47:28] PsixoZZ KAHI > 0/

[22:47:41] Da Winci > howdy both

[22:48:00] 3A EDy > <url=showinfo:1374//1293009798>PsixoZZ KAHI</url> is bad in english, i will translate for him.

[22:48:33] Da Winci > no problem, I looked for Silent Dodger but he was not online

[22:49:10] Da Winci > anyway.. I discussed your offer. And we dont see any advantage for us there

[22:49:26] Da Winci > you live next door to MTO2

[22:49:46] Da Winci > so you can welp more fleets in there than we can

[22:50:54] Da Winci > the only thing I can see is you guys wanting that system for JB network

[22:52:04] Da Winci > so we have to respectfully decline your offer

[22:52:27] 3A EDy > If you dont want to fight without allies, we can call our allies. When we do it are you sure that goons will help you?

[22:53:35] Da Winci > nothing is <i>sure</i> in this game. So no, I'm not sure. But I'm willing to take my chances

[22:53:50] Da Winci > the same question is true for you

[22:54:09] Da Winci > you sure you and your allies want to risk attacking CFC sov?

[22:55:43] 3A EDy > This is bullshit. Fuck you. Good bye.

5:03:10 PM da_winci [CO2]: just a heads up

5:03:51 PM sion_kumitomo: hahaha

5:04:33 PM sion_kumitomo: too bad you didn't get a chance to drop "we already killed your alliance once" on him

5:05:10 PM da_winci [CO2]: I was left all alone sulking for many missed opportunities there

5:06:53 PM sion_kumitomo: you could have been threatened in new and creative ways

Around this point in time, CO2 started having corps looking for new homes who cited Da Winci’s ego as a reason for leaving, which was new.

A serious incident of grievous mistreatment by the coalition. The discussion on this lasted something like a month. November 17th, 2014.

4:59:45 AM The Judge [CO2]: When you are around could you please poke me. Important things to discuss.

7:30:02 AM sion_kumitomo: morning

7:30:27 AM The Judge [CO2]: Morning (12:30am for me, I guess it is morning!)

7:31:40 AM The Judge [CO2]: I guess we can do aside with all the chitchat and get right to the point then ￼

7:31:53 AM sion_kumitomo: if you'd like, sure

7:32:47 AM The Judge [CO2]: Da Winci has sent me to talk to you about an issue regarding protocol within the CFC

7:34:27 AM The Judge [CO2]: One of our 200+ man corps (soon to leave now I guess), has been shopping around alliances. They have contacted 4 that we know of. The serious problem here is 2 of those alliances havent said a word to us, and one of those when asked denied it categorically

7:36:09 AM The Judge [CO2]: We feel this is a serious failure in both protocal and interconnected communication between alliances

7:36:11 AM sion_kumitomo: some alliances don't have the greatest internal communication

7:36:33 AM sion_kumitomo: I'll bounce this over to ektony, he should be able to help you sort it out

7:39:15 AM The Judge [CO2]: Before you go, I want to make sure that it is very clear that CO2 is very unimpressed, and frankly upset, about this. As far as the corp leaving to now join FCON, we have accepted that much... but if CO2 assets are to try and be protected under FCON that this corp is holding, there will be some fireworks for sure.

7:39:39 AM sion_kumitomo: are you familiar with the migration policy?

7:39:47 AM The Judge [CO2]: I am

7:42:37 AM sion_kumitomo: then you'll know that no alliance is required to inform you that one of your corps is looking to leave if they have no intent on taking them. that is, is a corp says "we want to leave our current alliance and join you" and if they say "no," there is no obligation that they inform you. where other cfc alliances MUST contact you is if they are considering accepting the offer, and they must do so before final action is taken

7:43:42 AM The Judge [CO2]: From what the corp has told us within the last 12 hours, they have been in talks with FCON and have been told they will be accepted

7:43:46 AM sion_kumitomo: what has happened in the past is that petty alliance leadership has airlocked decent corps over such things

7:43:52 AM sion_kumitomo: so it's a balance

7:44:17 AM sion_kumitomo: well, then fcon is badly in error if they haven't talked to you, and ektony will sort it out

7:44:51 AM The Judge [CO2]: That is where our problem is. The corp leadership is telling us they have been in talks with FCON for some time and have been accepted to transfer. When aarc was questioned by Da Winci, it was denied categorically

7:45:23 AM The Judge [CO2]: And here we are. I was sent as the mailman to make sure you were aware of CO2's view on this matter.

7:45:58 AM sion_kumitomo: okay

7:46:28 AM sion_kumitomo: I'm handing this off to ektony, he'll keep me appraised as to how it all works out

Notice anything different about Gigx’s chattiness compared to when talking to Sara Rae when he wanted into the coalition? Full log follows. December 7th, 2014.

(3:22:56 PM) viktor_raybach: Afternoon, I just wanted to touch base with you on how the new coordination channels are working out for Co2 and your FCs. My impression is that the past couple of days have gotten better for you guys/j4lp/bastion talking to one another, but wanted to get your impression as you're the one using them.

(3:25:40 PM) gigx@goonfleet.com/fe1d4ab7: Talk with Da Winci

(3:26:11 PM) viktor_raybach: Okay, and nice job on Tri

While not assisting the coalition, CO2 decided instead to hit Russian assets in PF. This led to a series of talks with XIX and a temporary agreement to hold off on hitting assets until we saw how what would be Fozziesov played out. When informed that we wouldn’t be backing their provocation with the coalition, CO2 got exceptionally angry for a period of weeks, which is well illustrated by the rather long log that follows.

March 4th, 2015:

[04/03/15 17:27:21] Sebastien Saintfrusquin [CO2]: http://evemaps.dotla...Alliance/events

[04/03/15 17:27:39] Sebastien Saintfrusquin [CO2]: looks like they are transfering out most (all ?) the ABS.A sov

[04/03/15 17:27:56] Sebastien Saintfrusquin [CO2]: and seeing TT moved to Venal, maybe they are leaving the X.I.X coalition

[04/03/15 20:57:47] ektony [CONDI]: I’ve heard rumors about Psih going AFK now going back, trying to restart TA again

[04/03/15 20:58:02] ektony [CONDI]: but that could also be dumb rumors

[04/03/15 20:59:20] ektony [CONDI]: Seb: did you come to any decision regarding -GE-?

[04/03/15 21:17:20] Sebastien Saintfrusquin [CO2]: urgh

[04/03/15 21:17:29] Sebastien Saintfrusquin [CO2]: forgot to talk about it

[04/03/15 21:18:09] Sebastien Saintfrusquin [CO2]: better not get them too involved

[04/03/15 21:18:14] Sebastien Saintfrusquin [CO2]: if they want to come they can

[04/03/15 21:18:20] Sebastien Saintfrusquin [CO2]: but I won't coordinate with them

[04/03/15 21:18:26] Sebastien Saintfrusquin [CO2]: too much chances of backfiring

[04/03/15 21:18:58] ektony [CONDI]: heh, you’re right on that

[04/03/15 21:19:32] Sebastien Saintfrusquin [CO2]: incidentally

[04/03/15 21:19:44] Sebastien Saintfrusquin [CO2]: we defeated a XIX CTA tonight in a really messy brawl

[04/03/15 21:20:02] Sebastien Saintfrusquin [CO2]: most of use reshipped 4 times

[04/03/15 21:20:18] Sebastien Saintfrusquin [CO2]: from napocs to ishtars to logis and tackle to ishtars again

[04/03/15 21:20:37] ektony [CONDI]: in MTO?

[04/03/15 21:20:40] Sebastien Saintfrusquin [CO2]: yeah

[04/03/15 21:20:43] Sebastien Saintfrusquin [CO2]: that helped for sure

[04/03/15 21:21:04] Sebastien Saintfrusquin [CO2]: and PIZZA did play bomb-online

[04/03/15 21:22:08] ektony [CONDI]: https://zkillboard.c..."1695357456"]}/

[04/03/15 21:22:47] Sebastien Saintfrusquin [CO2]: you can put PIZZA with us

[04/03/15 21:23:40] ektony [CONDI]: even with pizza it still somewhat messy

[04/03/15 21:23:45] Sebastien Saintfrusquin [CO2]: oh yeah

[04/03/15 21:35:57] Da Winci [CO2]: It would have been nice to at least been kept in the loop regarding the new agreement between cfc and xix

[04/03/15 21:36:53] Da Winci [CO2]: PErrigen is a non-involvement area for the cfc. So nice of our allies to inform us of that

[04/03/15 21:37:44] Da Winci [CO2]: Appreciated guys.

[04/03/15 21:42:15] ektony [CONDI]: “no full-scale CFC involvement” is something I believe Blawrf discussed with you in the beginning of deployment

[04/03/15 21:42:45] ektony [CONDI]: regarding “new agreemnt”, don’t be too worried about that — sov changes put a lot of unknowns as it is

[04/03/15 21:43:09] Da Winci [CO2]: Oh no we didn't discuss that. Go check logs on that.

[04/03/15 21:43:48] Da Winci [CO2]: I asked, as good allies do, if we would overstep something if we invaded abso

[04/03/15 21:44:03] Da Winci [CO2]: Answer was no

[04/03/15 21:44:14] ektony [CONDI]: and you didn’t

[04/03/15 21:44:45] ektony [CONDI]: no one is asking you to stop doing what you’re doing

[04/03/15 21:44:48] Da Winci [CO2]: Now xix gets involved, new agreement get discussed and we know nothing on those details.

[04/03/15 21:45:44] Da Winci [CO2]: Asking to stop? You think we are that restarted to escalate something with xix on the field and no chance of backup?

[04/03/15 21:46:14] Da Winci [CO2]: *retarted

[04/03/15 21:46:44] Da Winci [CO2]: That amounts to the same man

[04/03/15 21:48:14] ektony [CONDI]: you and me recently had a conversation how CD operates, didn’t we? afterwards we made this channel

[04/03/15 21:48:43] Da Winci [CO2]: So the new agreement went totally past CD?

[04/03/15 21:49:02] ektony [CONDI]: some things are getting discussion in CD, sometimes big boys like Mittens and Sion and Death make deals directly

[04/03/15 21:49:43] Da Winci [CO2]: So? And we throw co2 in front of the bus by not telling them?

[04/03/15 21:50:17] ektony [CONDI]: the morning that was known, it was in here

[04/03/15 21:50:46] Da Winci [CO2]: And it states GEMInATE !!

[04/03/15 21:51:56] Da Winci [CO2]: The actual translation into "you can deal with PF and co2 as you see fit" was not in there. Amd if so not communicated.

[04/03/15 21:54:08] Da Winci [CO2]: Look, for at least the last 2 years we have been in the forefront of every war. Check recents activity paps. And when we are confronted with something that might need some help from allies we get thrown in front of the bus.

[04/03/15 21:54:31] Da Winci [CO2]: I'm not amused

[04/03/15 21:57:00] ektony [CONDI]: this deal is something of a temporary band-aid, so we can figure out what to do with sov changes

[04/03/15 21:58:55] Da Winci [CO2]: After we laid our dicks on the table and you watch xix chop it of. That kind of temporary?

[04/03/15 22:06:53] ektony [CONDI]: look, nobody wants to throw you “under the bus”, not me, blawrf, mittens or the CFC

[04/03/15 22:08:24] ektony [CONDI]: it was quite clear that our agreement with XIX at the beginning of your campaign allowed some leeway

[04/03/15 22:08:47] ektony [CONDI]: which you guys used to the best of your abilities, carving out a nice chunk of space

[04/03/15 22:10:18] Da Winci [CO2]: And the moment xix shows some teeth and growls the cfc backs off

[04/03/15 22:11:23] ektony [CONDI]: definitely not because of xix teeth

[04/03/15 22:11:47] Da Winci [CO2]: Because of 'blah PF'

[04/03/15 22:14:22] ektony [CONDI]: not even that

[04/03/15 22:15:24] ektony [CONDI]: we had an agreement with XIX, which was poorly worded — which allowed ABS to do some derping around and you guys launching your campaign

[04/03/15 22:16:19] ektony [CONDI]: which was fine, because technically nobody did anything wrong

[04/03/15 22:17:00] Da Winci [CO2]: https://zkillboard.com/br/29748/

[04/03/15 22:18:50] Da Winci [CO2]: and we have more kills in fact

[04/03/15 22:19:00] Da Winci [CO2]: if you increase timeframe

[04/03/15 22:19:12] Sebastien Saintfrusquin [CO2]: https://zkillboard.com/br/29752/ starting one hour earlier

[04/03/15 22:19:50] ektony [CONDI]: also pizza should be kinda on your side

[04/03/15 22:20:33] Da Winci [CO2]: they bombed the easiest targets.. as in not the napocs

[04/03/15 22:20:50] Sebastien Saintfrusquin [CO2]: they did bomb us once on the gate near the end

[04/03/15 22:20:59] Sebastien Saintfrusquin [CO2]: with a full void bombs volley

[04/03/15 22:21:02] Sebastien Saintfrusquin [CO2]: (???)

[04/03/15 22:21:29] ektony [CONDI]: total absolution: 1 guy

[04/03/15 22:21:52] ektony [CONDI]: did you catch this bit where Psih is supposedly back?

[04/03/15 22:22:05] Da Winci [CO2]: so our take on this. We give back the moon.. they respond with a CTA towards MTO2

[04/03/15 22:22:24] Da Winci [CO2]: reffed the station and some towers, dropped SBU's

[04/03/15 22:22:59] Da Winci [CO2]: so as far as we are concerned that is a agression towards the CFC

[04/03/15 22:23:25] Da Winci [CO2]: MTO2 already was ours, not theirs to retake

[04/03/15 22:24:03] Da Winci [CO2]: and I understood that not even MTO3 will be defended by the CFC

[04/03/15 22:24:05] ektony [CONDI]: that Oasa moon is unfortunately out of equasion, so it’s not really a trade for PF sov

[04/03/15 22:24:40] Da Winci [CO2]: ow now its out of the equasion? It was on 1 24hrs ago

[04/03/15 22:25:14] ektony [CONDI]: how so?

[04/03/15 22:25:51] ektony [CONDI]: i see your point with MTO though

[04/03/15 22:25:56] Sebastien Saintfrusquin [CO2]: [02/03/15 12:20:29] Sebastien Saintfrusquin: 1° Figure out what the hell BL is doing next

2° Figure out what the hell CO2 is doing next

3° Figure out what the hell TT was doing bringing Dreads to N5Y yesterday

4° Figure out what the hell all the other parties around (TRI, -GE-, SOLAR to name a few) are doing next

[02/03/15 12:20:54] ektony [CONDI]: 0° untower Oasa moon

[04/03/15 22:26:13] Sebastien Saintfrusquin [CO2]: I think that's what Da_Winci is referring about

[04/03/15 22:26:40] ektony [CONDI]: anything Sion says is #0 prio for me, and we all know how this works

[04/03/15 22:27:03] Da Winci [CO2]: agreed, but not claim it wasnt part of the equasion

[04/03/15 22:27:04] ektony [CONDI]: back to MTO. the problem is, PF isn’t our space

[04/03/15 22:27:29] ektony [CONDI]: not under any kind of agreement

[04/03/15 22:27:35] ektony [CONDI]: old, new, whatever

[04/03/15 22:27:37] Da Winci [CO2]: MTO2 is for months in my book

[04/03/15 22:28:10] Da Winci [CO2]: can go scan the logs on the reactions in different jabber channels on that

[04/03/15 22:28:30] Da Winci [CO2]: and CFC was happy enough that CO2 pulled that stunt

[04/03/15 22:28:49] ektony [CONDI]: precisely

[04/03/15 22:29:17] Da Winci [CO2]: but now it has outlived its use it doesnt lmatter right?

[04/03/15 22:29:30] Da Winci [CO2]: nor as an asset nor the one defending it

[04/03/15 22:31:44] ektony [CONDI]: CO2 is one of most trusted allies, that’s not how it is at all

[04/03/15 22:31:47] Da Winci [CO2]: http://evf-eve.com/s...=170&t=uLvf&r=1 better report

[04/03/15 22:32:37] ektony [CONDI]: simple version I suppose is, we didn’t care about ABS, since they’re shitlords

[04/03/15 22:33:00] Sebastien Saintfrusquin [CO2]: Absolution may be thrown under the bus by X.I.X anyway at the rate they are going

[04/03/15 22:33:00] ektony [CONDI]: which is why it was cool to take their systems from them

[04/03/15 22:33:45] ektony [CONDI]: however, it was known that even though we might find ABS, we wouldn’t fight XIX if they’d come

[04/03/15 22:34:11] ektony [CONDI]: simply because we had an agreement (even if it was poorly worded), which we have to respect

[04/03/15 22:34:12] ektony [CONDI]: now

[04/03/15 22:34:59] Da Winci [CO2]: and when asked over the past weeks you specifically stated that 'you were looking at options and seeing how things evolved'. Now you make it seem as if that point was already decided

[04/03/15 22:35:06] Da Winci [CO2]: that is new info for me

[04/03/15 22:35:28] ektony [CONDI]: i was the one working with XIX on new pact

[04/03/15 22:35:28] Da Winci [CO2]: and could be seen as withholding some vital pieces of infromation

[04/03/15 22:35:48] ektony [CONDI]: which would allow us to do some things and maybe not others

[04/03/15 22:35:52] ektony [CONDI]: so that part is true

[04/03/15 22:36:07] Da Winci [CO2]: I'm even less amused now

[04/03/15 22:36:20] Da Winci [CO2]: seems that part was clear from day one

[04/03/15 22:36:25] ektony [CONDI]: why?

[04/03/15 22:36:32] Da Winci [CO2]: ^^

[04/03/15 22:36:49] ektony [CONDI]: we had disagreements on how we should treat ABS and their other renters

[04/03/15 22:37:07] ektony [CONDI]: for example, our old pact was between us and XIX/XWX, no others

[04/03/15 22:37:31] ektony [CONDI]: so new pact might’ve / might’ve not included them

[04/03/15 22:37:43] ektony [CONDI]: and specify what are core regions

[04/03/15 22:38:07] ektony [CONDI]: however, me and Attakare never actually came to signing that draft

[04/03/15 22:38:13] ektony [CONDI]: or even making a proper draft

[04/03/15 22:38:30] Da Winci [CO2]: when was it decided that the CFc would not get involved with xix in PF ?

[04/03/15 22:39:01] ektony [CONDI]: we had a few discussions to mainly see where we disagree and then my proposal was to work on this separately and see where we’d meet

[04/03/15 22:39:14] ektony [CONDI]: this is the point of time where I told you about “things being discussed"

[04/03/15 22:41:15] ektony [CONDI]: obviously it was known by CD that we were working on such a thing and this would probably be one of those “bottom up” things

[04/03/15 22:42:07] ektony [CONDI]: we’d have to get approvals, etc — I would’ve imagined this would take some time and this is where we’d definitely take your input what you think makes sense

[04/03/15 22:42:14] ektony [CONDI]: so this is last week, basically

[04/03/15 22:43:24] ektony [CONDI]: sunday Sion and XIX talk directly and make a shorter version of deal, which is when on monday I paste it here saying “unfortunate thing rather”

[04/03/15 22:43:29] Da Winci [CO2]: well, i'm too lazy to scan through my logs. Fact remains that we are sitting pants down in PF without help

[04/03/15 22:43:53] Da Winci [CO2]: and I'm too clever to go do that if I wasnt under the impression that at least MTO2 would be defended

[04/03/15 22:44:24] Sebastien Saintfrusquin [CO2]: [02/03/15 11:51:53] ektony [CONDI]: sion_kumitomo (https://themittani.s...m/sion_kumitomo) 9:43 PM (https://themittani.slack.com/archives/autocrats/p1425267816000259) treaty update time: xix has extended the no structure provision of our previous treaty to encompass off of their pets/allies/renters in geminate. so any structures owned by people on this list in geminate: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1NS1IEeVQX67reAWEot5tNnESmts89b_LSwids3GgKF8/edit?usp=sharing is to be avoided. additionally, xix/xwx structures regardless of location are not to be attacked (outside of active warzones), and xix/xwx will not attack our structures (outside of active warzones)

[04/03/15 22:45:58] ektony [CONDI]: [02/03/15 13:46:14] blawrf [CONDI]: if death does lead a campaign against your new foothold, the coalition won't be able to offer assistance

[02/03/15 13:46:17] blawrf [CONDI]: as stated in the beginning

[04/03/15 22:46:47] ektony [CONDI]: i mean, it’s not really news that Sion and Mittens can basically override everything and the only option for us as diplos is to say “this is policy now, sol”

[04/03/15 22:47:07] ektony [CONDI]: regarding PF

[04/03/15 22:47:31] Sebastien Saintfrusquin [CO2]: just to be clear here

[04/03/15 22:47:43] ektony [CONDI]: what was different today that allowed them to ref station?

[04/03/15 22:47:47] Sebastien Saintfrusquin [CO2]: am I still allowed to call for CFC fleets help for fights ?

[04/03/15 22:48:16] Da Winci [CO2]: and NEW foothold... that is NOT MTO2 ffs

[04/03/15 22:51:26] ektony [CONDI]: Seb: assuming you’re specifically referring to PF CO2 holdings?

[04/03/15 22:51:40] Sebastien Saintfrusquin [CO2]: assuming I'm referring to a XIX fleet in PF yes

[04/03/15 22:57:02] ektony [CONDI]: i think there’s a very thin line when it comes to that, specifically what is that we can send. i can only make very bad over-generalized examples, like: supers definitely not, harpies probably. blawrf would be right person to make the call

[04/03/15 22:57:37] ektony [CONDI]: the other thing is that you have to think in terms of sov change

[04/03/15 22:57:44] ektony [CONDI]: now more than ever

[04/03/15 22:58:13] Da Winci [CO2]: we are thinking on that

[04/03/15 22:58:18] Da Winci [CO2]: plans galore

[04/03/15 22:58:57] ektony [CONDI]: holding those PF constellations and Tribute

[04/03/15 22:59:10] ektony [CONDI]: might be impossible

[04/03/15 22:59:51] ektony [CONDI]: also at the same time, this sov change opens up a number of political options for us, including XIX too

[04/03/15 23:00:39] ektony [CONDI]: what options? no idea, we’re on day 2 of dev notes, but as you can see from Sion’s log, this is something we want to revisit

[04/03/15 23:01:04] Sebastien Saintfrusquin [CO2]: I've to say sov changes are very low on my priority list

[04/03/15 23:01:09] Sebastien Saintfrusquin [CO2]: I'm more concerned in creating content

[04/03/15 23:01:37] Sebastien Saintfrusquin [CO2]: up to now we had done well in that department

[04/03/15 23:02:19] ektony [CONDI]: Seb: so what is that XIX done differently today that allowed them to ref the station?

[04/03/15 23:02:35] Sebastien Saintfrusquin [CO2]: their entire supercapital fleet in range

[04/03/15 23:02:45] Sebastien Saintfrusquin [CO2]: it severly restricts our options

[04/03/15 23:02:59] ektony [CONDI]: which we discussed here that they were moving

[04/03/15 23:03:03] Sebastien Saintfrusquin [CO2]: ayup

[04/03/15 23:04:41] Sebastien Saintfrusquin [CO2]: the thing is, contrary to what lots of people in a certain coalition that shall remain unnamed, both X.I.X and CO2 see our supercapitals as fighting ships, not just sov bashing ships

[04/03/15 23:05:06] Sebastien Saintfrusquin [CO2]: so right now the chances are high that we'll get into a Supercapital fight between CO2 and X.I.X at some point, as both sides have brought their assets in range of each other

[04/03/15 23:05:57] Sebastien Saintfrusquin [CO2]: This is not because I like throwing supercaps around (I actually prefer solo stuff, easier for my blood pressure), this is because we are facing an opponent with vastly superior numbers, so we need to leverage every advantage we can get, and that includes escalating. Not only that, it is also content, and desperatly needed content for supercapital pilots that have been on a severe diet in this coalition for a long long time

[04/03/15 23:06:43] Sebastien Saintfrusquin [CO2]: I know I'll never get the CFC supercap fleet involved, I have never been under any illusion on that particular aspect

[04/03/15 23:07:14] ektony [CONDI]: that makes sense from content side; however commiting supers is something you should really be discussing in twr or with blawrf. i don’t want to lead you on to something that might you a lot, thinking this is officially “approved” by the cfc or whatever

[04/03/15 23:07:23] ektony [CONDI]: just not with these guys

[04/03/15 23:07:26] Sebastien Saintfrusquin [CO2]: oh I did ask

[04/03/15 23:07:38] Sebastien Saintfrusquin [CO2]: and indeed, blawrf told me no

[04/03/15 23:07:48] Sebastien Saintfrusquin [CO2]: but even a harpy fleet can be a huge asset in such situations

[04/03/15 23:08:26] Sebastien Saintfrusquin [CO2]: be it swinging a subcap fight, killing tackle, killing Fighter-Bombers, they can do a lot of things

[04/03/15 23:09:30] Sebastien Saintfrusquin [CO2]: but if all I have to go is a "harpies probably", that's not encouraging

[04/03/15 23:09:51] Sebastien Saintfrusquin [CO2]: especially as, gigX rethoric aside, I certainly want neither to take over Perrigen Falls, nor kill X.I.X

[04/03/15 23:10:52] ektony [CONDI]: honestly, i don’t think even harpies are real possibility. from coalation perspective, we don’t care about PF; we care about you guys, but this is neither official CFC deployment

[04/03/15 23:13:07] ektony [CONDI]: the problem with breaching agreement is that it makes it subsequently harder to make any new agreements with anyone after that

[04/03/15 23:15:15] Da Winci [CO2]: Breaching? CO2 in breach? That is taking a walk with the truth

[04/03/15 23:16:06] ektony [CONDI]: no i’m referring to cfc vs xix pact

[04/03/15 23:17:09] Da Winci [CO2]: even there

[04/03/15 23:18:14] Da Winci [CO2]: we gave back the moon and xix responds with reffeing MTOS station, drop SBU's and shoot towers in MTO2

[04/03/15 23:18:58] ektony [CONDI]: you expected them to get the moon and forget about constellations you took from ABS?

[04/03/15 23:19:25] Da Winci [CO2]: on the field, this agreement of which we were no part whatsoever, means xix can do basically anything we want and if we would respond alike we would socalled breach the agreement...

[04/03/15 23:19:43] Da Winci [CO2]: Abso was NOT in the agreement when we did

[04/03/15 23:20:08] Da Winci [CO2]: and what with the Abso goal of destroying the CFC?

[04/03/15 23:20:24] Da Winci [CO2]: because that WAS something Blarwf mentioned

[04/03/15 23:20:31] Da Winci [CO2]: do with Abso what you want

[04/03/15 23:20:43] Da Winci [CO2]: they are not covered by any agreement

[04/03/15 23:20:51] ektony [CONDI]: they were not

[04/03/15 23:21:13] ektony [CONDI]: again, this is what allowed you to take systems that you have now

[04/03/15 23:21:21] Da Winci [CO2]: and now xix said they are and the cfc pulls their support away?

[04/03/15 23:22:39] ektony [CONDI]: at this rate abs might be a goner

[04/03/15 23:23:23] ektony [CONDI]: which support though?

[04/03/15 23:23:26] Da Winci [CO2]: they are yes, and its not something i'm worried about

[04/03/15 23:23:57] ektony [CONDI]: “do whatever you want with abs” is one thing

[04/03/15 23:24:04] Da Winci [CO2]: support? as I understand even having a harpy fleet is questionable in terms of support

[04/03/15 23:24:18] Da Winci [CO2]: so that amounts to none

[04/03/15 23:25:47] ektony [CONDI]: harpy fleet or any other type of fleet is something blawrf should really be involved with. i told you my guess that it might not happen but i’m not authorized to send or not to send fleets

[04/03/15 23:26:45] ektony [CONDI]: you most definitely have our support now and in future, but we also have a deal (maybe bad deal as far as you see it) and we can’t be the one to breach it, in simple terms

[04/03/15 23:29:24] Da Winci [CO2]: so not defending a strategic important system from an ally is support?

[04/03/15 23:30:00] Da Winci [CO2]: defending it would be breaching something?

[04/03/15 23:30:06] Da Winci [CO2]: really?

[04/03/15 23:30:31] Da Winci [CO2]: I already was not amused, now I'm getting slightly annoyed

[04/03/15 23:30:49] Da Winci [CO2]: so i'm going to bed now

[04/03/15 23:31:11] ektony [CONDI]: think about strategic implications of this

[04/03/15 23:31:24] Da Winci [CO2]: thats exactly what i'm thinking about

[04/03/15 23:31:33] ektony [CONDI]: you want us to burn this bridge for something that we won’t be probably able to hold post-patch

[04/03/15 23:31:47] Da Winci [CO2]: name me 1 strategic implication that could actually hurt the CFC

[04/03/15 23:32:30] Da Winci [CO2]: and defending 1 system is hardly burning a bridge

[04/03/15 23:32:53] ektony [CONDI]: it’s not about 1 system or 2, or MTO or BWF or whatever

[04/03/15 23:33:11] ektony [CONDI]: it’s about setting the precent that our deals cannot be trusted

[04/03/15 23:33:33] ektony [CONDI]: i’m sure you wouldn’t want to deal with space people whose agreements you cannot trust

[04/03/15 23:34:00] ektony [CONDI]: that’s just doing bad business

[04/03/15 23:34:19] Da Winci [CO2]: okay, that is it then. You make a deal above our head that directly invoves us. Then say to us that your hands are tied because of said agreement

[04/03/15 23:34:37] Da Winci [CO2]: now thats what I call a precedent

[04/03/15 23:35:33] Da Winci [CO2]: Frankly, I havent seen xix go all-out to protect CFC assets the way CO2 does

[04/03/15 23:36:49] Da Winci [CO2]: well maybe mittens and Sion think i'm a naive small fish here

[04/03/15 23:37:03] Da Winci [CO2]: but I get the message loud and clear

[04/03/15 23:37:11] ektony [CONDI]: i understand you feel unhappy about that decision as did I (on personal level)

[04/03/15 23:37:21] Da Winci [CO2]: so, i'll just shut up about it

[04/03/15 23:37:34] ektony [CONDI]: it’s not about choosing XIX vs CO2

[04/03/15 23:37:44] Da Winci [CO2]: no use in fighting giants here

[04/03/15 23:38:16] Da Winci [CO2]: goodnight guys, my eyes hurt and I need some sleep

[04/03/15 23:38:52] ektony [CONDI]: get some rest, and have a good night

Fozziesov devblog hits, entire coalition is thrown into overdrive trying to figure out the enormous implications it has for our happy crew. Entire coalition except CO2, which was more concerned about the war they’d started in the drone regions. So, more on that. March 5th, 2015:

[05/03/15 00:10:52] ektony [CONDI]: Da Winci: Oasa tower we talked about wasn’t actually untowered? :\

[05/03/15 00:34:25] blawrf [CONDI]: i told you all in the beginning that this was a co2 campaign

[05/03/15 00:34:36] blawrf [CONDI]: that your efforts in perrigen were not under the cfc aegis and could not guarentee cfc support

[05/03/15 00:34:56] blawrf [CONDI]: i'm frankly a little pissed off that once again my words have been twisted

[05/03/15 00:35:08] blawrf [CONDI]: and i'm running out of patience with it

[05/03/15 00:38:15] blawrf [CONDI]: sleep well.

[05/03/15 09:18:42] Da Winci [CO2]: Pissed off about 'once again' ?? Losing patience ?? Wanna go over it step by step on comms maybe? Let's do that. And please do bring everyone involved so we can have a frank conversation on the subject.

[05/03/15 11:36:59] blawrf [CONDI]: yes, once again. this is the third or fourth time my words on this subject have been questioned and twisted

[05/03/15 11:37:09] blawrf [CONDI]: so i think you can probably understand, winci, why i'm "losing patience"

[05/03/15 11:38:22] blawrf [CONDI]: we've just had a huge sov blog drop that changes the entire layout of the bloody game and you're focusing on a silly feud with XIX

[05/03/15 11:39:10] Da Winci [CO2]: As I do hope you understand that CO2 has been exemplary every time someone call on us. And I personally expected more than a token "we're not getting involved". Not even on harpy level

[05/03/15 11:39:26] blawrf [CONDI]: ofcourse i understand that, as YOU well understand that i'm the person who makes sure that is known

[05/03/15 11:39:58] blawrf [CONDI]: the reason we took MTO was to deny it from NC/BL

[05/03/15 11:40:09] blawrf [CONDI]: XIX is, for all intents and purposes, an "ally" - they're not an enemy, at the very least

[05/03/15 11:40:19] Sebastien Saintfrusquin [CO2]: herrrrmmmmmmm

[05/03/15 11:40:25] Sebastien Saintfrusquin [CO2]: NCdot is blue with them still

[05/03/15 11:40:33] blawrf [CONDI]: i'm well aware, ya

[05/03/15 11:40:35] Sebastien Saintfrusquin [CO2]: means they can dock in MTO2 if death takes it

[05/03/15 11:40:45] blawrf [CONDI]: and if death allows that, death knows we'll roll geminate

[05/03/15 11:41:05] Da Winci [CO2]: would we?

[05/03/15 11:41:09] blawrf [CONDI]: yes.

[05/03/15 11:41:32] Da Winci [CO2]: that can be sorted, we'll just evac MTO2 then, speed up things

[05/03/15 11:42:10] Da Winci [CO2]: but with the new sov changes ahead, same reasoning as above, I dont think we'd bother rolling Geminate

[05/03/15 11:42:15] blawrf [CONDI]: i've been waiting for the moment i can take shit to mittani and say "look, xix are buddying up with NCdot to assault Vale"

[05/03/15 11:42:45] Da Winci [CO2]: that is the whole point of keeping them busy up here

[05/03/15 11:43:11] blawrf [CONDI]: i thought you wanted the perrigen pocket?

[05/03/15 11:43:17] blawrf [CONDI]: i was under the impression that was the point of your campaign
