READER COMMENTS ON

"Small Victory for Long-Term Single-Payer Strategy"

(32 Responses so far...)





COMMENT #1 [Permalink]

... Brittancus said on 7/19/2009 @ 11:49 am PT...





It is a shame that some Americans are so gullible, to the outlandish propaganda and lies spat in the newspapers, television and radio about Obama’s health care agenda. They have demonized the British, Canadian and other worthy plans. Hidden under a sub-rosa undercover, these radical entities are determined to keep the special interest organizations in absolute power. Comprising of the money-draining profitable insurance companies and their rich stockholders. They don't want any changes to the broken system of medical care, because it will hurt the status quo. I was born in England, in the county of Sussex and until the inception of the European Union and the European Parliament dictating to Britain. That they must accept millions of foreign workers, the nations medical system was exemplary. I never had to wonder if I would have to file bankruptcy, to pay my medical bills, or listen to the incessant ring of debt collectors on the phone. On several occasions I ended up in the cottage hospital and their was never a cost applied to it, never a ream of paperwork. No doctor, no hospital or specialist ask me for my Social Security number, drivers license or if I was covered by a predatory for-profit insurer. Today the British Isles is being submerged under a barrage of legal and illegal immigrants, who have never paid into the system, have caused some rationing. Prior to the importation of foreign labor my trips to doctor, to hospital, the eye or a dentist was paid from my taxation. Unless we pass a national health care agenda, Americans will never know what it's like to breeze through their lives, without worrying about paying for health care? Tell your Senators and Congressman you want an alternative to the--GET RICH-- insurance companies, before a Universal health care is killed. 202-224-312 REMEMBER THE INVESTORS AND STOCKHOLDERS DON'T WANT THEIR PIECE OF THE $$$TRILLION$$$ DOLLAR PIE DISTURBED. EVEN SOME POLITICIANS HAVE THEIR DIRTY FINGERS IN THE PIE?

AS AN ALTERNATIVE TO THE PRIVATE HEALTH CARE, A GOVERNMENT SINGLE PAYER SYSTEM WILL ASSIST IN REVITALIZING THE WILTING US ECONOMY.

COMMENT #2 [Permalink]

... JAMES said on 7/19/2009 @ 12:42 pm PT...





Jeddah , Kingdom of Saudi Arabia 19-July-2009

For Immediate Release Private Investment Group ARABIAN PENINSULA GROUP announced today it’s plan to acquire HARMAN INTERNATIONAL INDUSTRIES [NYSE : HAR] in a public tender offer . Mr.Donald Parker [Head Of APG’s Strategic Investments Unit] announced today the details of the offer. Mr.Parker mentioned : “the acquisition is going to be partially shared with a South Korean partner in a joint bid . And the name of the Korean party will be announced next week from SEOUL , South Korea”. Mr.Parker added that “APG is willing to offer HARMAN INTERNATIONAL INDUSTRIES shareholders USD 49.5 per stock” . He added that “APG is going to insure compliance with all U.S. rules and regulations in such transaction” He added that APG studied this opportunity very carefully with two Investment Banks since the beginning of 2009 and the firm is willing to pursue this opportunity jointly with it’s Korean partner . Mr.Parker mentioned that :”APG managed to close one deal in East Asia during the current financial crisis environment, and we hope that we will be able to close this deal ” APG added that : “ We see great values in many public and private U.S. companies during the current economic down turn” About APG APG was initially established in May.1981 , The Group manages private wealth of two prominent parties in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates , The head office of the firm is based in Jeddah. APG main operations are in Real Estate , Constructions , And Private Equity Investment. APG own and operates 17 privately held companies in the GCC region and South East Asia .

COMMENT #3 [Permalink]

... Phil said on 7/19/2009 @ 1:29 pm PT...





All I know is I still have no health care. Nothing ZERO. My blood pressure is VERY VERY HIGH. I'm a veteran (Albeit not of the current war), and I think nobody in government gives a fuck. Not sure what Kucinich did or didn't did. One man isn't going to fix the shit that exists as our representatives. And uh while I might be responsible for my own health care, I can't afford it. So I guess that means I either eventually hit the emergency room with some chronic preventable shit or I die. This is kind of where I hate libertarians. If I am going to die why not you too bitches? Cause you figured out how to make living ripping people off, makes you better than me? FUCK YOU. I actually can't even understand what I am reading here. So I hope it's a good thing. My health care plan goes like this. (in my opinion) but the fascist fuckwads want to rip us off. So it can't be this simple. I Hope you ALL DIE. ME --> HEalthCare

|_-->Taxes ^

COMMENT #4 [Permalink]

... Phil said on 7/19/2009 @ 1:37 pm PT...





As much as a absolutely respect Kucinich. I don't have health care. ;o)

COMMENT #5 [Permalink]

... jacksmith said on 7/19/2009 @ 1:46 pm PT...





http://action.firedoglak....com/page/s/publicoption [ed note: Long copy and paste deleted, after many warnings, but I left the salient link.... --99]

COMMENT #6 [Permalink]

... Phil said on 7/19/2009 @ 1:52 pm PT...





Hey lets forget health care. And look at this situation instead, http://news.slashdot.org...Results-With-No-Election

COMMENT #7 [Permalink]

... Josh Freeman said on 7/19/2009 @ 3:21 pm PT...





Excellent piece. My only suggestion is that in '...undue influence of corporate money and lobbying over whom we select as our "leaders,"...', the quotation marks should be on "elect" and not on "leaders"....

COMMENT #8 [Permalink]

... Big Dan said on 7/19/2009 @ 4:52 pm PT...





I think it was Saskatchewan. A province in Canada was the first, and the whole country followed. Why? Think about this: if Pennsylvania got single payer on the state level, businesses would relocate to Pa. because they wouldn't have to pay their workers health benefits. Other states would lose business, so they would follow. I think this is Dennis Kucinich's strategy. I heard about this strategy on the Pennsylvania state level, from our local Green Party rep. Carl Romanelli. There's a lot happening at the state level as far as moving forward implementing single payer. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I heard about this strategy right from the horse's mouth.

COMMENT #9 [Permalink]

... Big Dan said on 7/19/2009 @ 4:59 pm PT...





Phil, I hear ya! It's a SIN, a travesty, etc...that any American is without health care. We are NOT the great nation we think we are! And anti-single payer is all propaganda. It's all propaganda by the rich and the health insurance companies. Everyone wants it. You're better off not owning anything in this country unless you're rich. They'll take it off you to pay for your medical bills. Pretty soon they'll start not accepting people at emergency rooms, people with no insurance's only way to get treatment. Hey, why not? What a country! The BEST! Everyone looking out for everyone else! Or is it: I got mine, so FUCK you! Or I'm a politician getting kickbacks from health insurance lobbyists, so FUCK you! We should dress like people from other countries, like Israelis, to get our taxpayer aid and use it for health coverage. Imagine how much $$$ we're giving to foreign countries! And millions of Americans have no health care coverage, and hundreds of millions have SHITTY coverage! Don't forget, SICKO was about Americans WITH health care coverage!

COMMENT #10 [Permalink]

... Big Dan said on 7/19/2009 @ 5:06 pm PT...





Phil, and if you think "America the Beautiful" gives a rats ass if you drop dead because you don't have health insurance, check this out: http://rawstory.com/08/n...amily-dead-after-glitch/ Again, they have the POINT wrong in that story: it's NOT a "glitch" that caused them to be cut off of electricity...PEOPLE SHOULD NEVER HAVE THEIR ELECTRICITY SHUT OFF!! There's a valid reason to shut off your electricity, is what they're implying. Like having no money!

COMMENT #11 [Permalink]

... Big Dan said on 7/19/2009 @ 5:08 pm PT...





There's no valid reason in this country to ever shut off a family's water or electricity or heat!!! OR to not have health care! Is that socialism? Then bring it on! It's better than DYING!!!!!!!!

COMMENT #12 [Permalink]

... another joe said on 7/19/2009 @ 5:46 pm PT...





Big Dan - not to the "culture of life" crowd. If the poor cannot be cannon-fodder for the military-industrial complex, they have no economic value. In urban areas, unemployment is way over 50 percent because the masses are only "human resources" for the corpocracy if they are buying cheap crap at walmart. The jobs for these people are permanently GONE! If folks aren't buying health insurance (or having employers buy it), they are not "human resources" for the medical/health/insurance complex because no one is making excessive profits off their premiums nor utilizing overpriced services (that the insurance company will try to deny anyhow). When the repugs/blue dogs need votes from the ignorant masses, they trumpet wedge issues like abortion and "value voters." After the election, these politicians and special interests have nothing but disdain for the masses. At least until the next time they need a wedge issue, like "socialism".

COMMENT #13 [Permalink]

... another joe said on 7/19/2009 @ 5:55 pm PT...





The neocons have decided there is no need to provide healthcare for the masses. For young and healthy young men and women, they can generate surplus value for the corpocracy by serving the military industrial complex as a human resource that exchanges blood for oil. For others, healthcare is a waste - the next great “breakthrough” will be a growing appreciation of the efficiencies that result from the burning of humans as fuel. This process allows the body's organic matter to directly contribute to the economic growth of society without the thousands of years that are needed to convert organic matter into oil reserves. The repugs/blue dogs are looking out for our well-being. To economically prosper, America needs to burn the bodies of "undesirables" to fuel our economy. Not only will there be benefits from harvesting the poor, infirmed, or elderly that result from the laws of thermo-science, the economic benefits and economies of scale that will result from consumption of humans for fuel make providing universal healthcare economically inefficient. Until people become useless to the ruling class, they participate in our economic system adding to the creation of wealth through the surplus value of their wages (if employed) or to their contributions to either the military-industrial or the medical/health/insurance complex. When their economic usefulness no longer serves the needs of the ruling elite, we convert the surplus value of their being into an energy commodity. The powerful interests that will benefit from this economically efficient production cannot be stopped - just consider it another example of "the-invisible hand" that guides our economy slapping you in the face.

COMMENT #14 [Permalink]

... Ernest A. Canning said on 7/19/2009 @ 6:49 pm PT...





While I can appreciate the frustration with the status quo, I take exception to Phil's "one man's not going to fix the [smelly, brown sticky substance]" in reference to Dennis Kucinich and to Another Joe's "The powerful interests...cannot be stopped..." Pessimism is self-defeating. Consider the observations of historian Howard Zinn in A Power Governments Cannot Suppress: There is a basic weakness in governments, however massive their armies, however vast their wealth, however they control images and information, because their power depends on the obedience of citizens, of soldiers, of civil servants, of journalists and writers and teachers and artists. When the citizens begin to suspect they have been deceived and withdraw their support, government loses its legitimacy and its power. You are right Phil, one man (Kucinich) by himself cannot make a difference. But the informed masses of the American people can make all the difference. Educate yourselves; educate others; get involved! In this instance, if you feel strongly about single-payer health care, contact PDA, learn about its "Healthcare NOT Warfare" Campaign, find out what you can do to help, learn which representatives support single-payer, which have sold out to the bogus "public option" plan; support and work for candidates like Marcy Winograd who will take on not only the neocons but corporate America.

COMMENT #15 [Permalink]

... another joe said on 7/19/2009 @ 9:31 pm PT...





Ernie – not a pessimist, just tellin’ ya, this is AMERICAN CAPTIALISM! The healthcare system is simply the result of free markets As long as workers make a net contribution to the general economic good, then market forces of supply and demand will gravitate towards equilibrium where those workers will live because price the free market places on economically productive workers will be higher than the demand for their death. Those that have (1). Health insurance can be productive assets to the medical/health/insurance industrial complex. (2). Those that are young and health enough to be productive assets to the military-industrial complex will naturally find their highest and best use there. Other humans will be “harvested” and converted into energy to run our cars, heat the rest of our homes, and provide for an expanding, hi-tech lifestyle. When workers, medical/health/insurance industrial complex assets, or military-industrial complex fodder are no longer is making net contributions to the general economic good, then market forces will move price towards equilibrium where these depreciated assets will die because the price of that depreciated asset will be less than the free market price for that mass of bio-energy economic. They key is that we eliminate all government interference with these natural, God-given market forces. The “Ownership Society” will remove all of the Marxist forces and socialistm. When we allow free markets to determine the relative net worth of each individual based on: (1). Each person’s accumulation of wealth, and (2). Contribution to the general economic good; then we will be allowing God’s “invisible hand” to fairly and objectively assess each person’s right to live. In other words, we will be handing the “design” of our society back to the “intelligent designer.” Of course, God’s will reaches globally, so we will need to create a more equitable balance between the net providers of labor, military-industrial, and medical/health/insurance industrial complexes. We need to prevent immigration and allow the demand for each individual to reflect the economies of scale within each divinely created boundary. If we immediately deport or lock up all illegal immigrants, that will correct market distortions in the supply and demand. This, in turn, will insure that those human beings that the free market determines to be “surplus lives” to be distributed across global boundaries consistent with global plans. Not only will this restore market forces, but it will tend to accelerate the elimination of excess populations, starting with the world’s poorest nations. While increasing our supply of energy will be an important outcome of these new market policies regarding the value of life, perhaps most importantly, these forces will allow the oligopoly that God has created to control our energy, defense, and medical needs to maintain increasing profits. This, in turn, will place downward pressures on the value of depreciated human resources, more fully assuring that mother earth will be able to provide for the economic needs of the world’s affluent and elite. Perhaps subsidizing the existence of the poor made sense under “compassionate conservative” principles from earlier times. Clearly, with the ability to convert human bodies to high quality energy resources, we can avoid the costly proposition of exchanging human blood for oil. The public expenditures for the military represent a government subsidy for an inefficient energy market. The capitalists that own the war machine can continue endless wars without doing so for energy. The military-industrial complex, if freed from the shackles of securing energy and more fully maximize profits and more efficiently harvest the global population of depreciated human resources. It is time to wring the last socialist subsidies out of our economy and allow free markets to more fully determine who will inherit the earth and who will not be able to pass into the Kingdom of Heaven through the eye of a needle. Of course, more tax-breaks for the wealthy and eliminating the “Paris Hilton” tax will a much more viable strategy for economic growth and a jobless recovery than wasting scarce resources on healthcare for depreciated human assets.

COMMENT #16 [Permalink]

... Phil said on 7/20/2009 @ 12:53 am PT...





You can be sure that I am not attacking Kucinich. One of the only TWO Senators I trust. I am simply saying that two Senators are not going to fight and win against all the fascist Senators. And I doubt Ron Paul (the second Senator I trust) is for Health Care, since Libertarians don't want government providing anything but defense and what the Constitution says. There's some cracks in that description --- but since I was a Libertarian and left because they didn't give a crap about electronic vote tabulation devices, I left. I am saying the complex charts out there should be simplified. You live, You pay tax, the tax pays for health care. It's a closed loop, if the cost goes up the tax goes up to match the cost. The moment you inject insurance, you have just made dirty tricks be the end result e.g. Expensive Health Care when Terminal / Chronic crap creeps in.

or No Health Care at all. No Health Care at all is what I have now. Actually since 1985. ;o) So I've heard plenty of shit out there over the years, but no action. Pessimism is a poor description.

Frustration and Anger is more like it. And no accountability with the ongoing shituation with the media + electronic voting + broken chain of custody + caging + Oh hell.. I'm done explaining myself. And I don't think my ASCII chart was a representation of Single Payer Health Care. I don't even know that I believe that's the best thing. I think like I said, You pay tax, the tax should keep the people healthy. Call that whatever the fuck you want. I call it common sense and basic humanity 101. When you try to make a profit, logic is replaced with fuzzy math and we end up like we are now with $65 Trillion Sucked into the Ether. Nice that the banks are making a profit, too bad that profit isn't paying for OTHER BAILOUTS. It's comming down to a super bubble. Since they still haven't fixed the root problem of the markets monetary system. Overleveraging the fractional reserve. Already loans are being taken out to build. You'd think we'd need to sell the existing foreclosed homes first wouldn't ya? na... I am not a pesimist. I am pissed off constitutionalist and don't see officials responding at all, just breaking their oaths. So is socialized heal care right for you? It is for me. Until we actually follow the Constitution again. We no longer live in a Constitutional Republic --- if you haven't noticed, perhaps it's time to notice.

COMMENT #17 [Permalink]

... Floridiot said on 7/20/2009 @ 5:46 am PT...





we got two, maybe three Senators we can trust. Sanders, Franken, and Harkin, who was Wellstones mentor/friend when he came in.

Have to wait for a while to see which way Franken goes yet. I wish I were a vet so's I could go to the VA for medical attention, sheesh

COMMENT #18 [Permalink]

... Bluehawk said on 7/20/2009 @ 8:08 am PT...





Comment #14...Ernest That is an outstanding quote.

COMMENT #19 [Permalink]

... disillusioned said on 7/20/2009 @ 3:34 pm PT...





Feingold, Sanders, Harken, Kucinich, Franken (assumed - still to be proven)

COMMENT #20 [Permalink]

... disillusioned said on 7/20/2009 @ 3:36 pm PT...





Phil, Ron Paul is a congressman (in the House, not the Senate). And yes, I doubt he's in favor of national healthcare, but at least I respect his stance on that topic because its consistent and rational with his view of the role of government.

COMMENT #21 [Permalink]

... Bluehawk said on 7/20/2009 @ 4:07 pm PT...





Dennis Kucinich is in the house too...not the Senate.

COMMENT #22 [Permalink]

... Big Dan said on 7/21/2009 @ 12:39 pm PT...





Comment 16 - Phil thinks Ron Paul & Kucinich are senators. Phil is delusional because he hasn't had a checkup since 1985, when he last had health care, so please forgive him for misspeaking.

COMMENT #23 [Permalink]

... Big Dan said on 7/21/2009 @ 12:41 pm PT...





But schmeeriously, I agree - good congressmen/senators I can think of are: Paul, Kucinich, Feingold, Sanders (especially Sanders)...geez, out of what, 535-550 (?), that's all I can think of? Holy shit! Franken may become one. From what I've read about him, he will become one.

COMMENT #24 [Permalink]

... Big Dan said on 7/21/2009 @ 12:42 pm PT...





Actually, believe it or not, I think Lincoln Chafee was good. Too bad he didn't switch parties. I think that was the guy, he lost to Whitehouse (? going by memory)

COMMENT #25 [Permalink]

... Big Dan said on 7/21/2009 @ 12:45 pm PT...





Oh, and Sarah Palin. (just kidding, wouldn't you question everything I said from here on in, if I really meant that?)

COMMENT #26 [Permalink]

... Phil said on 7/21/2009 @ 2:02 pm PT...





Sorry about that. My bad. Big Dan is correct (About who I called Senators actually being members of Congress.) I don't know about not having health care as the prime reason why I munged it up. While it's a funny sounding reason Big Dan gives, I would chock that one up as just being burned out from politics. Thanks for setting the record straight Big Dan.

COMMENT #27 [Permalink]

... Reggie Greene / The Logistician said on 7/21/2009 @ 2:54 pm PT...





We have a tendency in America to argue for or against a concept based on our own personal philosophy or view of the world, what advances our personal interests, or the interests of our party, family, organization, or region. Perhaps viewing the issue from a management or systemic perspective might result in innovative approaches to the issue. The American national mindset, citizen philosophy, lack of citizen motivation to be proactively healthy, and governance model make the socialization of health care in America very problematic, particularly at this point in time. A country needs to know its limitations.

COMMENT #28 [Permalink]

... Bluehawk said on 7/21/2009 @ 9:02 pm PT...





Comment #27.... Reggie Greene / The Logistician There were those that thought abolishing slavery was "problematic".

There were those that thought allowing women to vote was "problematic".

There were those that thought eradicating polio and small pox was "problematic".

There are those that thought paying a fair wage was "problematic"

But those got done anyway. I said all that to say...that some things, as difficult as they may seem to be are WORTH the effort anyway.

Providing health care shouldn't be done because it's easy to do...it should be done because it's the HUMANE thing to do.

Would you want to face a cancer diagnosis without decent insurance ?

America has reached it's limitations of consumerist, corporate, me and only me, how much does it cost non-sense.

Now it's time to be human again and find ways to employ the unemployed, care for the ill and house the homeless. It's what's human...I could care less about your systems analysis. It's time to grow the f-ck up and see beyond the bottom line. I found your link to be well disguised corporate bullcrap propaganda....and your almost Vulcan denial of your humanity is repulsive.

It seems that you know the cost of everything but the value of nothing.

COMMENT #29 [Permalink]

... Floridiot said on 7/22/2009 @ 12:28 am PT...





Wiener now says, fuck 3200, go 676 instead...with gusto http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/node/44638

COMMENT #30 [Permalink]

... Floridiot said on 7/22/2009 @ 1:04 am PT...





I see you have the update on Weiner up there, but his video needs top billing

We got ourselves another Wellstone in the making here, the passion is there anyway.

COMMENT #31 [Permalink]

... Bluehawk said on 7/22/2009 @ 4:36 am PT...





Floridiot That's an outstanding video. I've sent that link to my friends. great stuff there by Rep. Wiener

COMMENT #32 [Permalink]

... Jeannie Dean said on 7/25/2009 @ 1:48 am PT...

