RemarK Profile Blog Joined April 2011 United States 452 Posts Last Edited: 2012-03-30 23:19:45 #1 Introduction:



Hello all,



I’m RemarK, top masters Protoss on the NA server, this is my first guide – I’ll be teaching you guys a relatively simple PvZ build, the 7-gate, +1/+1 immortal all-in! For lack of a better name, I’ll just refer to it as the Immortal 7-gate.



This build is a 2-base PvZ all-in (very strong timing attack) that I saw Choya do in the GSTL. It’s a neat build – the goal is to build a miniature death ball and attack before the Zerg’s unit production has 100% kicked in. It’s especially strong vs Zergs who try to go straight into mutas on 3 hatches, if you execute properly, you will kill them most of the time!



Infrastructure:

+ Show Spoiler + Before we talk about the build in greater depth, I want to talk about the infrastructure of this build, as well as a few notes about saturation.



The basic infrastructure of the build is you start +1 attack while your cyber core is still warping in, and then a sentry + robo shortly after it has finished. After starting the sentry and robo, you take the extra gases at your natural expansion, keep chrono-boosting probes until you hit 44 (16 probes / mineral field x 2 mineral fields + 3 probes / assimilator x 4 assimilators).



Saturations are very important – when you’re doing a build such as this, it’s crucial to be on top of your saturation game. I don’t transfer any probes to my natural when it finishes, and instead have each nexus rallied to their respective mineral line until I get 16 probes on minerals in my main and 6 on gas (16 probes = box all the mineral workers in your main and it should be exactly 2 rows of probes) – then I rally my main Nexus to the natural mineral field and just add workers until we get the required amount down there as well (3 on each gas, 16 on minerals).



It might seem like I’m making a big deal out of this, but I cannot overstate its importance. You’re attacking a Zerg who probably will have ~60 drones (sometimes even more!) and therefore you need to be squeezing every last drop of efficiency out of what you have. If you’re executing correctly and use your knowledge of saturations to your advantage, then you will actually be attacking at a time when your resource collection rate is better (and has been most of the game) than the Zerg’s, even though he is 20 workers ahead of you (they haven’t fully kicked in yet).



Ok, phew, boring technical stuff out of the way, onto the build!



The Build:

+ Show Spoiler + Like most PvZ builds, we start off with a standard forge fast expansion (FFE). There’s a few stylistic differences in how people FFE, so don’t feel like you have to use my version of the build – it’s just the version I’m most comfortable with / think is best right now.



9 pylon (@ low-ground) – Scout with the probe that builds this pylon.



13/14 forge (chronoboost probes twice, then build forge) – If it’s a 4-player map AND your first scout hasn’t figured out where the Zerg lives, you need to scout with this probe also in case he’s 6 or 7 pooling.



17 Nexus (you should’ve scouted the Zerg, if he’s early pooling [anything before an 11 pool] you might need to either drop a pylon + cannon in your main mineral line or rush to complete the wall before building the nexus, thus abandoning this build)



17 Cannon



17 Gateway



17 Pylon (Note: the cannon + gateway + pylon should either complete your sim city and leave you with a 1-hex hole that can be plugged by a probe or zealot, or on maps with wide-ramps like Antiga set you up to complete your sim city when you add the cyber core)



*Build a probe*



18 2x Assimilator (I like to build these with the probe that made the 17 pylon, and then use my scouting probe to plug the wall when he gets home)



*Pylon finishes*



Chronoboost probes, put workers on gas when the assimilators finishes, etc



*Nexus finishes, Gateway finishes*



Build your cyber core



@100 gas – Start +1 ground attack upgrade at forge



Around this time, you should be approaching saturation at your main – when you have 16 probes on minerals, make sure to rally both Nexus to your natural expansion



Build a pylon (choose the pylon location carefully, you’re going to build your robo here and you want it to be in a safe and slightly hidden spot – I usually just put it on top of my ramp at my main)



*Cyber core finishes*



Start warp tech, start sentry (optional chronoboost on sentry if you haven’t confirmed a 3rd base)



@200 minerals / 100 gas, drop your robo



Keep chronoboosting probes! We’re not saturated at the nat yet



@100 gas, start second sentry



@100 gas, start +1 armor upgrade



Drop pylons as needed, you want to stay 4-6 supply ahead of the limit right now



@16 probes on minerals at your natural, take both gasses at your natural, keep making probes (you need 6 more at that point, 3 from each nexus)



*Warp tech finishes*



Morph gateway, warp in sentry



*Robotics facility finishes*



Build immortal



Note – at this point, we should be very close to stopping probe production, from here we are going to focus our chronoboost on the +1 armor upgrade (to finish it in time for the push) and on the robo units (to get them out as fast as possible). Additionally, keep warping in sentries off of our single warp gate



As the first immortal is building, add 2 gates.



*First immortal finishes*



Build another immortal, and add 4-gates (the goal of this timing is to be deceptive, Zergs usually sack an overlord to scout and if we don’t add all our gates at once there’s a higher chance of him not seeing all those gates – I also recommend not building all the gates in the same place, although that’s optional and a little bit map dependent)



*Second immortal finishes, morph first 2 gates into warp gates and get more sentries!*



Build warp prism



Note – +1 armor should be almost done, and so should all your gates. Morph them into warp gates, make sure you have 6-8 sentries , and from then on warp in stalkers. You’re going to build pylons 2-3 at a time to keep up with your supply off of 7 gates production.



*Warp prism finishes*



Load up both immortals into the warp prism, and send the warp prism somewhere outside the Zergs 3rd (whatever angle you want to attack from)



Note – as you’re moving out, ideally the Zerg is just going to see gateway units and a warp prism. This makes it slightly harder to get a full read on what build you’re doing, and he might make more roaches than he would have wanted to had he known about the immortals.



Move out with your gateway force



@Full warp cycle – morph warp prism into phase mode, then warp in 7 stalkers (sometimes this will be your second full warp-in



Attack! And good luck.



Notes for execution:

+ Show Spoiler + With this army composition, you’re essentially creating a well-upgraded miniature death ball. Immortal stalker sentry is a pretty durable and robust composition, with both high durability and good DPS when balled up. Forcefields are a potential game-changer for you, if you can cut off part of his army and kill it for free then you’re on your way to a win! But if you mis-manage your sentry energy by either using inefficient forcefields or too many guardian shields (ideally 1, AT MOST 2 per engagement) then you’ll run out and get overrun by Zerg reinforcements.



Given your composition, you want to be careful and intelligently choose how to engage. Don’t approach from a wide open area, where you can get flanked, surrounded, etc. DO approach from narrow chokes if possible. If the Zerg is caught off guard and doesn’t have enough units, then you can just go straight up to his 3rd and position yourself next to it, attacking and also using it as part of a choke. Do everything you can to get in a position where you are putting pressure on the Zerg and forcing him into entering an unfavorable engagement. Lastly, if possible, do your best to avoid attacking up a ramp blindly.



The warp prism is absolutely crucial to the success of this build – if you lose it, you lose your instant warp gate reinforcements and will probably get overrun by cheap Zerg units. If he has hydras or lots of queens, make sure your warp prism is far enough back to be safe.



Generally with this attack, the Zerg will be doing 1 of 4 things: some permutation of mass roach / roach+ling, ling + hydra, ling + infestor, or ling + muta. Usually, this build hits before any of the latter 3 tech choices have kicked in fully so you will most often be able to overrun them and kill them. If the Zerg has lots of lings, don’t be afraid to warp in a round of zealots, and then just position them in front of your army for the engagement. Zealots, especially +1/+1 zealots are amazing tanks and with their sturdiness + the DPS of your mini-death-star you should be able to trade with a blinding cost-efficiency!

Sometimes, you will get the Zerg’s 3rd base but not be able to kill him if his natural is well-defended / his hydra numbers hit a critical mass / he has lots of spines. As long as you’ve killed his 3rd and 10~ drones and he’s not going muta, you’re in a goodspot! All you need to do to win is back-off, go double robo colossus, and then you can push out with 4x Colossus and thermal lance (you can take a 3rd behind this push if you’d like as well). He should die here.



Replays:

+ Show Spoiler +



vs coLRyze –



vs TSLRevival –



vs RoK –



Note – I actually have a lot less replays of this build saved then I thought - if you guys want more replays, just let me know and I’ll do this build vs my next few ladder Zergs and update this guide. I figured that since this attack is just a build order for the first 8 to 9 minutes of the game, that would be the most important part to show! Here’s a few of my replays from ladder games with this build, I wrote this guide based on the most recent game I played using it.vs coLRyze – http://drop.sc/148257 (this is how the attack plays out vs a Zerg going mutas usually, and is probably the best example of the build)vs TSLRevival – http://drop.sc/148360 (I lost this game, but I’m including it to show both how Z users can play against it and what sort of mistakes P users should avoid making when executing this build)vs RoK – http://drop.sc/148359 (This is an example where I kill the 3rd + some drones, but didn’t want to press the attack further and went for the 2x robo colossus follow-up push)Note – I actually have a lot less replays of this build saved then I thought - if you guys want more replays, just let me know and I’ll do this build vs my next few ladder Zergs and update this guide. I figured that since this attack is just a build order for the first 8 to 9 minutes of the game, that would be the most important part to show!



About Me:

+ Show Spoiler +

I’m RemarK.406 on the NA server, a top masters Protoss who comes from a FPS background (Halo specifically) with no RTS experience. Feel free to message me on TL (soLremarK), reddit (mmkramer), or battle.net with any feedback or thoughts about my guides. I also stream tournament and ladder games at http://www.twitch.tv/tsremark , often with commentary as well. Thank you for reading and I hope this guide was helpful! Hello all,I’m RemarK, top masters Protoss on the NA server, this is my first guide – I’ll be teaching you guys a relatively simple PvZ build, the 7-gate, +1/+1 immortal all-in! For lack of a better name, I’ll just refer to it as the Immortal 7-gate.This build is a 2-base PvZ all-in (very strong timing attack) that I saw Choya do in the GSTL. It’s a neat build – the goal is to build a miniature death ball and attack before the Zerg’s unit production has 100% kicked in. It’s especially strong vs Zergs who try to go straight into mutas on 3 hatches, if you execute properly, you will kill them most of the time! Thug means never having to say you're sorry | Grandmaster Protoss | www.twitch.tv/tsremark | @remarkiwa

VoirDire Profile Joined February 2009 Sweden 1847 Posts #2 As a zerg player, I can see this working well.



When does the attack hit approximately? 11 min?

RemarK Profile Blog Joined April 2011 United States 452 Posts #3 On March 31 2012 08:00 VoirDire wrote:

As a zerg player, I can see this working well.



When does the attack hit approximately? 11 min?



Yup, there's some variance depending on the map / how well I'm executing, but I usually hit between 10:35 and 11:00. By 11:00, you should definitely have 2 immortals, 6+ sentries, and ~20 stalkers (and the warp prism). So about 60~ supply in army. Yup, there's some variance depending on the map / how well I'm executing, but I usually hit between 10:35 and 11:00. By 11:00, you should definitely have 2 immortals, 6+ sentries, and ~20 stalkers (and the warp prism). So about 60~ supply in army. Thug means never having to say you're sorry | Grandmaster Protoss | www.twitch.tv/tsremark | @remarkiwa

TangSC Profile Blog Joined July 2011 Canada 1852 Posts #4 Thanks for posting the guide, remark, this is definitely helpful.



It is a really strong all-in but it would be useful if you went into the in-game timings a bit more. If Zerg goes for any type of tech beyond roach/ling with upgrades, it's so difficult to hold. Do you think this has a strong chance of success against a player who masses Roach/Ling or mixes in Hydras? Coaching www.allin-academy.com | Team www.All-Inspiration.com

Zheryn Profile Joined December 2010 Sweden 3653 Posts #5 You didn't lose the second game and it's against "RoK". hundred thousand krouner

RemarK Profile Blog Joined April 2011 United States 452 Posts #6 @TangSC - sure, I'll try to add some in-game timings more. I'll have to go through the replay and get time-stamps myself, because I always just execute based on feel / resource allocation. Sorry if the build order seemed a little vague on account of that!



In my experience, it seems like lots of speedlings + hydras are the best way to defend this. If the Zerg can hold their 3rd base / trade armies effectively, they've almost always won the game. And versus stalker sentry immortal, hydralisks + speedlings are the most cost-effective composition you can get as Zerg (I think infestors + fungal growth are less reliable vs so many sturdy units). As Zerg, your goal is to make the Protoss run out of energy, if you can last that long and without taking critical damage, you'll overrun him.



@Zheryn - thanks, I accidentally copy pasta'd the wrong link. Updated with proper replay. Thug means never having to say you're sorry | Grandmaster Protoss | www.twitch.tv/tsremark | @remarkiwa

CecilSunkure Profile Blog Joined May 2010 United States 2829 Posts #7 Thanks for taking the time to write this up! Have you considered attacking a minute later with blink and +2? I feel the combination of those two is much more effective than a slightly earlier attack and +1 armor. Hey I remember playing you on ladder and you asked how to write guidesThanks for taking the time to write this up! Have you considered attacking a minute later with blink and +2? I feel the combination of those two is much more effective than a slightly earlier attack and +1 armor.

CCalms Profile Joined November 2010 United States 341 Posts #8 I thought you only 10 gated ^^

TangSC Profile Blog Joined July 2011 Canada 1852 Posts #9 On March 31 2012 08:23 CecilSunkure wrote:

Hey I remember playing you on ladder and you asked how to write guides Thanks for taking the time to write this up! Have you considered attacking a minute later with blink and +2? I feel the combination of those two is much more effective than a slightly earlier attack and +1 armor. Hey I remember playing you on ladder and you asked how to write guidesThanks for taking the time to write this up! Have you considered attacking a minute later with blink and +2? I feel the combination of those two is much more effective than a slightly earlier attack and +1 armor.

Have to agree, +2 blink all-ins ftw Have to agree, +2 blink all-ins ftw Coaching www.allin-academy.com | Team www.All-Inspiration.com

Metalteeth Profile Joined December 2011 United States 115 Posts #10 Thanks, will have to try this out! Twitter: @Metalteeth9 GoGo Starcraft!

VoirDire Profile Joined February 2009 Sweden 1847 Posts #11 On March 31 2012 08:26 TangSC wrote:

Show nested quote +

On March 31 2012 08:23 CecilSunkure wrote:

Hey I remember playing you on ladder and you asked how to write guides Thanks for taking the time to write this up! Have you considered attacking a minute later with blink and +2? I feel the combination of those two is much more effective than a slightly earlier attack and +1 armor. Hey I remember playing you on ladder and you asked how to write guidesThanks for taking the time to write this up! Have you considered attacking a minute later with blink and +2? I feel the combination of those two is much more effective than a slightly earlier attack and +1 armor.

Have to agree, +2 blink all-ins ftw Have to agree, +2 blink all-ins ftw

A 2 base 12 minute attack with no initial pressure? Way to late imho. Zergs can very well be maxed at that point.



I think 11 minute is the latest a 2 base all-in should hit. In fact, I think 9-10 min with 3 immortals and +1 attack is stronger. A 2 base 12 minute attack with no initial pressure? Way to late imho. Zergs can very well be maxed at that point.I think 11 minute is the latest a 2 base all-in should hit. In fact, I think 9-10 min with 3 immortals and +1 attack is stronger.

TangSC Profile Blog Joined July 2011 Canada 1852 Posts #12 On March 31 2012 08:33 VoirDire wrote:

Show nested quote +

On March 31 2012 08:26 TangSC wrote:

On March 31 2012 08:23 CecilSunkure wrote:

Hey I remember playing you on ladder and you asked how to write guides Thanks for taking the time to write this up! Have you considered attacking a minute later with blink and +2? I feel the combination of those two is much more effective than a slightly earlier attack and +1 armor. Hey I remember playing you on ladder and you asked how to write guidesThanks for taking the time to write this up! Have you considered attacking a minute later with blink and +2? I feel the combination of those two is much more effective than a slightly earlier attack and +1 armor.

Have to agree, +2 blink all-ins ftw Have to agree, +2 blink all-ins ftw

A 2 base 12 minute attack with no initial pressure? Way to late imho. Zergs can very well be maxed at that point.



I think 11 minute is the latest a 2 base all-in should hit. In fact, I think 9-10 min with 3 immortals and +1 attack is stronger. A 2 base 12 minute attack with no initial pressure? Way to late imho. Zergs can very well be maxed at that point.I think 11 minute is the latest a 2 base all-in should hit. In fact, I think 9-10 min with 3 immortals and +1 attack is stronger.

I also like oGsVINES 7gate blink stalker build I also like oGsVINES 7gate blink stalker build Coaching www.allin-academy.com | Team www.All-Inspiration.com

TheGodneyDog Profile Joined January 2012 United States 99 Posts #13 This guys an ISTL stud. iMpulse eSports Media Manager (www.impulseesports.com) Twitter: iMp_eSports Facebook: www.facebook.com/impulseesports

saltymango Profile Joined June 2011 United States 120 Posts #14 I've been doing this ever since i saw it in the gstl and it's the most powerful timing attack i've learned so far. harder to hold than +2 blink stalker 7 gate in my opinion, as well as less common.

monk Profile Blog Joined May 2009 United States 8468 Posts Last Edited: 2012-03-31 00:48:49 #15 On March 31 2012 08:33 VoirDire wrote:

Show nested quote +

On March 31 2012 08:26 TangSC wrote:

On March 31 2012 08:23 CecilSunkure wrote:

Hey I remember playing you on ladder and you asked how to write guides Thanks for taking the time to write this up! Have you considered attacking a minute later with blink and +2? I feel the combination of those two is much more effective than a slightly earlier attack and +1 armor. Hey I remember playing you on ladder and you asked how to write guidesThanks for taking the time to write this up! Have you considered attacking a minute later with blink and +2? I feel the combination of those two is much more effective than a slightly earlier attack and +1 armor.

Have to agree, +2 blink all-ins ftw Have to agree, +2 blink all-ins ftw

A 2 base 12 minute attack with no initial pressure? Way to late imho. Zergs can very well be maxed at that point.



I think 11 minute is the latest a 2 base all-in should hit. In fact, I think 9-10 min with 3 immortals and +1 attack is stronger. A 2 base 12 minute attack with no initial pressure? Way to late imho. Zergs can very well be maxed at that point.I think 11 minute is the latest a 2 base all-in should hit. In fact, I think 9-10 min with 3 immortals and +1 attack is stronger.

I have to agree with Voirdire here and disagree with cecil and tang.

The earliest you can hit with immortals, +2, and blink is 12minutes. If you hit after 11 minutes without early pressure, any zerg will be free to drone to 60-65 and then mass units to hold this off.



Getting blink/+2 also reduces your sentry count and you don't even get that many stalkers to utilize blink.



The strength of this build is forcefields + immortals. Blink doesn't synergize well with these 2 other units/abilities. You're relying on forcefields to prevent damage, not blink

I've tried both this build and another version that Sage used vs a TSL zerg in this GSTL and I have to say that I prefer that one much better. The OP shold take a look at that one. The difference between that build and this one are as follows: Sage opens some variation of zealot/stalker/stalker for initial gateway pressure then follows it up with a warp prism for warp prism pressure. He then goes for obs then 3 immortals off of 3 gas and doesn't get +1 armor. I feel it's a better, more lean build, because you put on more pressure earlier and get 3 immortals instead of 2, because you skip the first sentry thus allowing you to build your robo faster. The disadvantage is that you have less sentry energy and don't have +1 armor in your push.



Finally, I think it might be useful if you benchmark all the robo timings: when you drop the robo, when each of the robo units start and come out. When I was working on this build, I found that was very helpful.



I have to agree with Voirdire here and disagree with cecil and tang.I've tried both this build and another version that Sage used vs a TSL zerg in this GSTL and I have to say that I prefer that one much better. The OP shold take a look at that one. The difference between that build and this one are as follows: Sage opens some variation of zealot/stalker/stalker for initial gateway pressure then follows it up with a warp prism for warp prism pressure. He then goes for obs then 3 immortals off of 3 gas and doesn't get +1 armor. I feel it's a better, more lean build, because you put on more pressure earlier and get 3 immortals instead of 2, because you skip the first sentry thus allowing you to build your robo faster. The disadvantage is that you have less sentry energy and don't have +1 armor in your push.Finally, I think it might be useful if you benchmark all the robo timings: when you drop the robo, when each of the robo units start and come out. When I was working on this build, I found that was very helpful. Moderator

Skyro Profile Joined May 2010 United States 1512 Posts #16 -IMO it is worth it to wait to push with 3 Immortals. Think about it this way, 1 Immortals = ~4 Stalkers DPS-wise vs. armored units. With 2 Immortals you are basically increasing your DPS by ~4 Stalkers vs. Roaches if you replaced 4 Stalkers (the cost of 2 Immortals) with those 2 Immortals. Is ~4 Stalkers worth of DPS vs armored worth it vs. Blink and +2 weapons? IMO no.

-Why not make a warp prism first? It allows you to wait do some sentry drop harass. You can mix this up if you are playing the same opponent by sometimes doing just a light sentry harass in their mineral line and other times a more full-blown perma-FF their ramp backed by ~6 gates type of strategy.

-You probably want to mention possible warp prism uses in this strategy. The main advantage of these pushes over a +2 Blink pushes is that you have some harass options available to you mid-game before your push and the options available to you with your prism during your push (i.e. warping in his mineral line while pushing his front, using the warp prism to protect your immortals when they get focus fired, etc.).

Mikelius Profile Joined September 2010 Germany 517 Posts #17 I'm actually using a similar build, but instead of Immortals I go for Colossi and attack the second I have my second Colo with range, it does come out about a minute later and I sacrifice sentries/gas for more zealots. But yeah, robo timing attack at around that time are very strong. Less QQ, more PewPew

Th1rdEye Profile Blog Joined December 2006 United States 1069 Posts Last Edited: 2012-03-31 01:20:47 #18 Watch out for fast infestors from zerg, will shut this down. Most zergs know that hydralisks are a bad option against this due to the FF's/timing and that roach ling is obviously c ountered by immortal FF



ive played many all ins like this on KR ladder, and only thing that works for me is fast infestors and pure fungal/roach ling mass-



note: mass units *can* work, but you have to have great positioning and flanks. the strength of this build is the initial push, that FF's half your units, kills your third, blocks you out of third, etc.



my best advice to zergs trying to hold this off is to scout it in time, and work on spines/infestors.. go light on the roaches, if you mass roach like herp derp zerg does to 12 minute max, you will probably die. you will have no gas left for infestors.



the timing of this build hits later than warp gate pushes and blink all in, so you have plenty of time to go up to 5-6 gasses and full saturation in time. i would not suggest going for a fourth until you see toss go for his third. from the days of: TheMarine [NC]...YellOw [H.O.T.]-Forever99 OgOgO [_MuMyung_] ChRh PlayGrrrr.... SlayerS_`BoxeR` [Oops]Reach [ReD]NaDa [DF]zergboy..!! Pusan[S.G] Nal_rA GARIMTO SSamJJang ChoJJa JinSu Silent_Control iloveoov H_PauL_WII JulyZerg [DaK]JoYo

Mikelius Profile Joined September 2010 Germany 517 Posts #19 On March 31 2012 09:48 NrGmonk wrote:

Show nested quote +

On March 31 2012 08:33 VoirDire wrote:

On March 31 2012 08:26 TangSC wrote:

On March 31 2012 08:23 CecilSunkure wrote:

Hey I remember playing you on ladder and you asked how to write guides Thanks for taking the time to write this up! Have you considered attacking a minute later with blink and +2? I feel the combination of those two is much more effective than a slightly earlier attack and +1 armor. Hey I remember playing you on ladder and you asked how to write guidesThanks for taking the time to write this up! Have you considered attacking a minute later with blink and +2? I feel the combination of those two is much more effective than a slightly earlier attack and +1 armor.

Have to agree, +2 blink all-ins ftw Have to agree, +2 blink all-ins ftw

A 2 base 12 minute attack with no initial pressure? Way to late imho. Zergs can very well be maxed at that point.



I think 11 minute is the latest a 2 base all-in should hit. In fact, I think 9-10 min with 3 immortals and +1 attack is stronger. A 2 base 12 minute attack with no initial pressure? Way to late imho. Zergs can very well be maxed at that point.I think 11 minute is the latest a 2 base all-in should hit. In fact, I think 9-10 min with 3 immortals and +1 attack is stronger.

I have to agree with Voirdire here and disagree with cecil and tang.

The earliest you can hit with immortals, +2, and blink is 12minutes. If you hit after 11 minutes without early pressure, any zerg will be free to drone to 60-65 and then mass units to hold this off.



Getting blink/+2 also reduces your sentry count and you don't even get that many stalkers to utilize blink.



The strength of this build is forcefields + immortals. Blink doesn't synergize well with these 2 other units/abilities. You're relying on forcefields to prevent damage, not blink

I've tried both this build and another version that Sage used vs a TSL zerg in this GSTL and I have to say that I prefer that one much better. The OP shold take a look at that one. The difference between that build and this one are as follows: Sage opens some variation of zealot/stalker/stalker for initial gateway pressure then follows it up with a warp prism for warp prism pressure. He then goes for obs then 3 immortals off of 3 gas and doesn't get +1 armor. I feel it's a better, more lean build, because you put on more pressure earlier and get 3 immortals instead of 2, because you skip the first sentry thus allowing you to build your robo faster. The disadvantage is that you have less sentry energy and don't have +1 armor in your push.



Finally, I think it might be useful if you benchmark all the robo timings: when you drop the robo, when each of the robo units start and come out. When I was working on this build, I found that was very helpful.



I have to agree with Voirdire here and disagree with cecil and tang.I've tried both this build and another version that Sage used vs a TSL zerg in this GSTL and I have to say that I prefer that one much better. The OP shold take a look at that one. The difference between that build and this one are as follows: Sage opens some variation of zealot/stalker/stalker for initial gateway pressure then follows it up with a warp prism for warp prism pressure. He then goes for obs then 3 immortals off of 3 gas and doesn't get +1 armor. I feel it's a better, more lean build, because you put on more pressure earlier and get 3 immortals instead of 2, because you skip the first sentry thus allowing you to build your robo faster. The disadvantage is that you have less sentry energy and don't have +1 armor in your push.Finally, I think it might be useful if you benchmark all the robo timings: when you drop the robo, when each of the robo units start and come out. When I was working on this build, I found that was very helpful.



Would a 4 gate +1 7(ish) zealot pressure work well with this build? As in get the Robo as you pressure with Zealots to force units/roaches and then transition into chronoing Immortals? Would a 4 gate +1 7(ish) zealot pressure work well with this build? As in get the Robo as you pressure with Zealots to force units/roaches and then transition into chronoing Immortals? Less QQ, more PewPew

RemarK Profile Blog Joined April 2011 United States 452 Posts #20 @Cecil - thanks for the feedback. In general with timing attacks vs Zerg, I feel like the sooner they hit the better. Blink and +2 timing attacks are really strong, but I would probably either scratch the immortals or throw a pressure into my strategy if I wanted to hit that timing. I find 4-gate zealot pressure while teching to robo + twilight is a good way to gear up for a 7-gate, +2 blink stalker immortal all-in.



@VoirDire - I'll try that out on the ladder and see if it seems stronger. I'll post in here once I have.



@Skyro - that's a pretty good point. I think getting the warp prism first would definitely be a smarter allocation of resources. I just copied the build based on what Choya did in the GSTL, but the flexibility of warp prism harass would increase the strength of the build a lot.



@Mikelius - I don't think +1 zealot pressure is ideal with this build, if you were gonna do that, might as well just do HerO's Pvz opener exactly and go into both robo and twilight to get blink, +2, and 2-3 immortals for an all-in. But as skyro mentioned, it would be good to get warp prism first and then you can harass with that Thug means never having to say you're sorry | Grandmaster Protoss | www.twitch.tv/tsremark | @remarkiwa

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