Fox's Tucker Carlson spars with Cruz challenger Beto O'Rourke

UNITED STATES - NOVEMBER 13: Rep.-elect Beto O'Rourke, D-Texas, speaks to reporters after a news conference with democratic members-elect in the Capitol Visitor Center. (Photo By Tom Williams/CQ Roll Call) UNITED STATES - NOVEMBER 13: Rep.-elect Beto O'Rourke, D-Texas, speaks to reporters after a news conference with democratic members-elect in the Capitol Visitor Center. (Photo By Tom Williams/CQ Roll Call) Photo: Tom Williams/CQ-Roll Call, Inc. Photo: Tom Williams/CQ-Roll Call, Inc. Image 1 of / 29 Caption Close Fox's Tucker Carlson spars with Cruz challenger Beto O'Rourke 1 / 29 Back to Gallery

WASHINGTON – El Paso Congressman Rep. Beto O'Rourke, a Democratic challenger to Texas U.S. Sen. Ted Cruz, tested his chops in conservative America Wednesday night in a testy interview with star Fox host Tucker Carlson.

It was a revealing outing for the three-term challenger, exposing potential attacks from the right as he seeks to make inroads in rural and small-town Texas, outside the traditional Democratic urban strongholds.

With polls showing O'Rourke still largely unknown outside of border city of El Paso, where he grew up, Republicans, least of all Cruz, have hardly begun to "define" him, as they say in politics.

READ ALSO: Ted Cruz begins 2018 Senate race with 18 point lead over Texas Democrat Beto O'Rourke, GOP study says

Carlson, whose interviewing style often resembles mocking cross-examination, bore down on two controversial O'Rourke legislative proposals: one providing undocumented immigrants with free legal assistance to fight deportation, and another providing them with free health care.

Combining those positions with Democrats' insistence that Dreamers – immigrants brought to the U.S. illegally as children – be granted full citizenship and voting rights, Carlson sought to corner O'Rourke at the top of the interview.

"Can you understand how some people watching that might conclude that Democrats are spending more time and energy worrying about people here illegally than American citizens?" Carlson said.

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"I guess I don't make the connection, Tucker," O'Rourke replied, adding that "most Texans," at least those he's talked to, want to see Dreamers "remain and thrive" in their communities. He began to recite the names of Texas Dreamers who are PhD candidates, storm heroes, and honor students...

"Stop your speech," Carlson said, cutting off his guest. He allowed that while there are good and bad Dreamers, "more Dreamers have been busted for gang membership than have joined the military.... They're not all valedictorians."

O'Rourke's response, one that he employs frequently on the stump, centered on El Paso's reputation as one of the safest cities in America, a status he attributes to its largely peaceful mix of Anglos and immigrants. It's an outlook that clashes with President Donald Trump's frequent characterization of Mexican immigrants as criminals, rapists and drug traffickers.

"We are a city of immigrants," O'Rourke said, "including Dreamers, who contribute to our success and our safety... It's very good for America, not just for Dreamers."

Carlson, demonstrating interview prep, noted that only 39 percent of graduating seniors in El Paso are ready to tackle college-level math or English."It seems like maybe that's a bigger crisis than whether people here illegally can bring their relatives from abroad," Carlson shot back – in a reference to family-centered immigration policies, known as "chain migration," that Trump wants to end.

"I don't think working on these things is mutually exclusive," O'Rourke answered, noting that he's also focused heavily on mental health care access for veterans, another important conservative constituency, particularly in Texas.

The two also debated the economic contributions of Dreamers, a central focus of the liberal argument for more open immigration policies. Carlson, snickering, termed the estimated economic benefits, which O'Rourke counted in the "tens of billions" of dollars, as "extrapolations and theoretical."

But Carlson's main attack point was about O'Rourke's support for taxpayer-paid legal representation and health care, issues that are likely to come up in any debate with Cruz, who ran for president in 2016 on an immigration platform not dissimilar to Trump's.

"How does that benefit Americans, exactly?" Carlson asked.

"It's keeping true to who we are," O'Rourke said, noting that many of those in need of help are families with children seeking refuge from "violent, brutal countries" like El Salvador. "I want to make sure that they have every opportunity to apply for asylum in this country."

But, Carlson noted, most come illegally, not through refugee programs.

Very often, O'Rourke countered, they come as asylum seekers who give themselves up at the border.

"So then taxpayers are paying for them to fight American law in court?" Carlson said.

"Not to fight American law," O'Rourke said. "Actually to get right with American law."

Pivoting to O'Rourke's health care proposal, Carlson asked why taxpayers should pay the doctors' bills for immigrants who entered the country illegally.

"It's good for people who are in our country, who are contributing to this country's success, to be safe, to be healthy, to be able to continue to contribute," O'Rourke said.

Carlson noted that O'Rourke's bill did not distinguish between those who are contributing and those who are not.

"I'm confused by why we should pay for the health care of someone who broke our laws to get here?" Carlson said.

"I think there's an interest in making sure that if someone is going to be sick, if someone needs help, that we deliver it in the most efficient, cost-effective way possible," O'Rourke replied.

"How about not paying for it at all?" Carlson shot back.

"Yeah," O'Rourke replied, "then you can watch people die."

Back to Carlson: "Oh, yeah, I must be a mean person for not being in favor of it."