When it comes to punk, I turn to Xiaoxiao, the official ‘blackout queen of Gulou,' for all my recommendations. It’s in her blood, bruises, and teeth, many of which have found their way onto the venue floors of Gulou. So when she pointed me in the direction of Shanghai riot grrrl band Ugly Girls, I knew I was in for a treat. What I wasn’t expecting amidst all the candid enraged punk antics was one of the most pointed, spirited takedowns of gender stereotypes. It’s a sledgehammer to the paradigm, and a glorious one at that. I chatted with frontwoman Casey Li Brander about terrible bosses, comedy, and more ahead of their upcoming performance at Cassette Store Day at Yue Space on Saturday, Oct 14 (more on that here).

First off – great job on Welcome to the Suck. It’s gnarly in every which way and really packs a punch. What would you say is the creed of Ugly Girls? Is there a message, a viewpoint that you’re trying to bring to light?

Well it's inspired a lot by punk and riot grrrl and there are definite political and feminist under/overtones musically and lyrically, but a bit of the militant edge is taken off by also prioritizing fun and being awkward. There's kind of a more surfy or post-punky sound to some of the songs, and the lyrics are often inspired by comedy, movies, and Chinglish T-shirts. There's a self-aware angst to a lot of it. We're all big nerds and misfits in our own ways. None of us are cool.

I’ve noticed a lot of bands taking Shanghai to bat in their music – how much of the contempt within your music has been shaped by your time here in Shanghai? What’s the most loathsome thing about the city?

My contempt is with a lot of things wrong with society in general, I wouldn't say Shanghai is really a target though. Ceridwen (drums) and I have both only been here a couple years and come from working in the art worlds in London and New York and grinding away 50-plus hours a week and still being broke, so as expats who can get by without working that much and still have time for our own art here, Shanghai's actually pretty nice. But we're in pretty privileged positions and still in the honeymoon phase. Andy (guitar) has been here a lot longer and Elsa (bass) is Shanghainese. Some of the expat culture here is gross and annoying though, like the entitlement that comes with being able to live easily, so sometimes I feel ashamed to be a part of that in a way. That's why we like playing with Chinese bands a lot, a lot of them are way more awesome, and I don't want us to be put on a pedestal just for being exotic or whatever.

A lot of your music involves stripping down the gender stereotypes that have been instilled in societies across the globe. Do you find that these stereotypes take on a whole new shape here in China? How so?

Well, I feel kind of weird saying anything too definitive about this because race and gender and nationality are all intertwined and as an American woman who is generally perceived as white (I'm half-white and half-Chinese) my experience here is different than a Chinese national born and raised here. I will say that in regards to the music scene, women seem to be less ghettoized within mostly Chinese groups. In the US and UK, its kind of a novelty to have girls in bands or particularly having “girl bands” or girls playing drums. In China, we play with other bands that are mostly or all girls or have girl drummers all the time. Most of these bands are majority Chinese though. Playing punk/rock music seems to be less of a gendered thing here. The foreigner bands still tend to be more gender segregated, they're like all dudes. We're kind of an anomaly among the bands that have more foreign members.

Continuing on that thread, it’s rare to find these subjects being brought up in the music scene here in China, let alone the punk scene – do you imagine that’ll change over time?

Well, I think because I write the lyrics for Ugly Girls and I'm a Westerner, I bring up these issues in punk music because I come from a background where women are more excluded from punk, and because I'm personally really inspired by a lot of feminist and queer musicians from across genres, whether its Bikini Kill, X-Ray Spex, TLC, Frank Ocean, or older Queen Latifah. I do think there are bands discussing feminist issues in China though, like South Acid Mimi or 喜儿 from Kunming, but in general, my only assumption would be that since Chinese women might experience sexism differently and seemingly less in the independent music scene, maybe they're just expressing themselves in regards to feminism through primarily different channels than punk. But yeah, I do imagine this will change over time, I guess a lot depends on the political situation.

In just the past month we’ve seen lots of the top men at huge companies, from the Weinstein Company to Cinefamily, being exposed for essentially being ‘F**k Bosses.' Do you think we’ll be seeing lots more ousted ‘F**k Bosses’ in the future? What’s the worst ‘F**k Boss’ you’ve ever had?

“F**k Boss” were the words written on the back of a denim jacket I saw someone wearing in Tibet. I find Chinglish to be one of the most endearing things about living in China. It's kind of poetic. Actually the band name Ugly Girls comes from a sweatshirt I bought here too, and the song “Welcome to the Suck” is named for a jacket I saw someone wearing in Dali. F**k Boss was just a funny expression that could mean lots of things, but I chose to interpret it as like “F**k the Boss” and it became the basis for an anti-boss, anti-work anthem. It goes “You ain't god, you're just a f**k boss” – “You ain't god” also came from a shirt I bought in Shanghai that I thought was pretty funny and fitting for that song because a lot of bosses are so arrogant and dumb and think they're god. “F**k Boss” wasn't necessarily supposed to mean bosses that sexually harass their employees, it’s more just about the exploitation of the worker by pig-headed bosses generally.

I notice you are also quite involved in the comedy scene in Shanghai – can you give a little background on your comedic upbringings? How much does that sensibility come into your music and your general outlook on life? I’m guessing by the number of times I found myself laughing out loud to the lyrics (“Is it hard to swallow when you don’t have a neck“) and the very matter-of-fact way you breach a topic in your songs (“thank you for not raping me”), it’s quite a bit.

I got involved in comedy back when I was working as an art handler at the Museum of Modern Art in New York because one of my coworkers was really into it and I used to go to open mics with her as moral support. She would bomb super hard on stage most of the time, and sometimes it would be painfully awkward but she would just keep going every week and I really respected the fact that she gave zero f**ks and I thought that was pretty punk rock. Eventually, she got better from sheer persistence and eventually, I tried it too, only like four or five times and four of those times were a disaster. Then I moved to Shanghai and found out they had English-language stand-up clubs here and started going to open mics. I actually met Andy at one of the open mics, he came as an audience member, thought I was funny, and talked to me afterward. I was like, “I just want to be in a punk band,” and he was like, “Yeah, I play guitar and know a lot of people in the music scene here,” and that was that. I come from an art background and most of the art I make is kind of funny, so that transitioned well into doing comedy. Some of the Ugly Girls songs are based on comedy bits I've written, and overall a lot of the themes are the same between my comedy and lyrics. My favorite comedians tend to be the ones who stay in their lane and speak their truth and kind of serve as popular philosophers who can articulate complex power relations/situations/emotions really concisely and make you have this “omg, I've always thought that but never knew how to express it but I'm so glad someone else gets me” moment. It's a really serious form of high art I think.

Alright – here’s one for Andy Best, who lends a hand on guitar. As an old visitor to Kungfuology, the underground Shanghai music blog (a great inspiration for my own Live Beijing Music), I must get your take on the Shanghai music scene at the moment. Who are the best new bands I need to check out? If I ever moved to Shanghai, would I find comfort in the spread of music there?

Since I stopped the blog, I don't really have enough of an overview or focus to be talking about the scene in media. If you moved here you'd find all the stuff I used to write about: a smaller scene but more inclusive. The previous boom in talent was subverted and killed off by the involvement of nascent commercial interests (big topic).

Bands here who write original material and push themselves can still break out. Duck Fight Goose are still big, as you know, and Han Han works for/with D-Force Records. Dream Can work with labels, Dirty Fingers just recorded with Maybe Mars. And Dahlia Rosea have some sort of talent deal with Modern Sky. The latter band sound like '80s British goth but a bit more introspective, we booked them and played together at YYT, having seen them at Harley's. That's a band with interesting songs.

Ugly Girls perform on Saturday, Oct 14 at Yue Space. RMB 80 (RMB 60 advance). Check out their music here.

Images courtesy of Ugly Girls