August 28, 2019 · 6 min read

In fact, he's betting we could do with a little extra ruffling, especially university students.

The NYU Stern professor noticed something happening on college campuses in 2014. Students began protesting speakers, equating speech with violence, and calling for safe spaces.

So he wrote a book. In The Coddling of the American Mind, Jonathan and his co-author Greg Lukianoff argue that Gen Zers are engaging in cognitive distortions and objecting to so many small things, they're actually making themselves weaker. Now, those problems may be graduating to the workplace with them.

Jonathan sat down with the Brew to discuss his book, Gen Z in the office, and more.

Brew: What's your book about?

Jonathan: The Coddling of the American Mind is a title made up by an editor at The Atlantic for an article I wrote with Greg on how college students seemed to be embracing ways of thinking that were cognitive distortions. Greg saw this thinking suddenly emerge in 2014.

A lot of you have heard of trigger warnings, safe spaces, microaggression training. When Greg and I wrote the article, we thought this was a uniquely academic problem. Many people assumed that when these kids graduate and go out into the real world, they can't do this stuff. They're going to have to work and they can't demand safe spaces and protection from their boss.

Is this a problem across Gen Z or a vocal minority?

There are two separate trends. One is the rise of anxiety and depression—that's happening at nearly all schools in the U.S. and Canada, as far as we can tell. Students are more fragile and easily discouraged. They expect more protection. Something really happened to kids born in 1996 and after.

Part of the problem is we began overprotecting kids in the 1990s from threats, mistakes, things that upset them. At the same time we let them on social media too young, which seems to cause many of them chronic stress about their social presentation.

The second trend, which is not nearly as widespread, is that fragility and anxiety get converted into political demands about speech as violence. There are 4,500 institutions of higher education in the U.S.—most are community or small colleges. Students aren't shouting down speakers, there's not much politics. If you go to the top liberal arts colleges, especially in the Northeast or West Coast, generally there is this new confrontational politics in which fragility is linked to social justice in a way I think is bad for everyone.

Has the situation on campuses gotten better, worse, or stayed the same since you published last year?

The most spectacular episodes are the shout downs and no-platforming because everyone pulls out their phones and you see they're really dramatic. They sometimes look like quasi-religious ceremonies. Those peaked in 2017, in part due to the election of Donald Trump and rising passions, tensions, and fears. So in one sense it's better in that there's few of those now.

But things are worse in that what began in a few elite schools is now common at other schools. Most students are great. But when you're lecturing, it doesn't matter the averages, you have to teach to the most sensitive student. Because if you say anything or show a video that has one word that offends any student, you can be reported. So what do you do if you can't trust your class?

I loved teaching at the University of Virginia. I could be provocative and I trusted my students that I could take them to places that would seem dark and scary but we'd get off the other side. The whole educational journey was more exciting. I can't do that anymore, because if one student gets upset during the journey I'm in trouble. I don't think it's because I moved to NYU in 2011, I think it's because times changed as Gen Z arrived on campus around 2014.

Are these problems graduating with Gen Z to the workplace?

While we were writing the book, I was beginning to hear anecdotes from business people, but we didn't have enough to go on. By January 2019, it was clear in industries that hire from elite liberal arts colleges. When we talk to people, they'll say young employees are so fragile and come in looking for confrontation. Members of Gen Z, they are used to an environment in which it's all about displaying what side you're on, supporting this person, opposing that. Everything becomes a moral conflict. But you can't run a company that way.

The reason, I think, is social media changed the social nature of Gen Z. In 2009, Facebook added the like button and that changed social media because now every kid has a button to reinforce every other kid. By 2011, American teen life was online. There was a big drop in face-to-face interaction.

I'm trying to get the American Academy of Pediatrics to make a statement that social media is damaging Gen Z and they should not be on until they're 16. Suppose 50 years ago someone said they have something that will take 30-40 hours out of your week and won't do much for you otherwise. Would I sign up for it? Are you crazy—no way! But somehow we did.

How do we stop this from happening in an office?

If corporate culture becomes political, people feel fearful or reluctant to stand up. We need a speak-up culture, but Gen Z has been raised with a call-out culture in which they're incentivized to criticize or shame people publicly. A callout culture makes people feel they're walking on eggshells, and you can't have that in a company.

To be clear, most members of Gen Z are decent kids who want to work and are not calling people out. When hiring, you have to avoid people who are going to come in and not be able to cooperate.

I'm coming to believe you don't get a good education at many of America's top schools anymore. I've told my kids, you're not going to schools in New England because they're mostly politically and ideologically monolithic. People are walking on eggshells more there than other places. Employers are probably better off hiring top students at midwestern state schools rather than average students from places like Yale or Amherst.

Is it too late for Gen Z?

Gen Z students are not in denial—they know social media's done this to them. Most want the chance to become adults, to be challenged and to learn. It's crucial the culture you create when they first come in. I suggest having a talk: A business is like a sports team and if we all pull together, we have a great product. If we turn against each other, we're gonna fail. We want to help you be productive, but if you can't pull in the same direction, you should leave.

People are anti-fragile—we grow from facing threats, challenges, and setbacks. There's an intellectual toolkit leadership needs in order to harness the good wishes and talents of young people and get them away from overprotective, fearful, and fragile ideas.

Ready to read?

Check out the original Atlantic article that inspired it all.

Grab a copy of The Coddling of the American Mind today, then go see Jonathan and Greg at a live event this year. You can find extra resources on improving mental health, parenting, and universities on their website.

Jonathan's quite active on Twitter. Give @JonHaidt a follow for insightful daily commentary on education, psychology, and more.

If you like tearing into a whitepaper more than a book, Jonathan also co-founded Ethical Systems, a site that collects research on psychology, behavioral economics, and more to help improve your corporate culture and run an ethical business.

Meet the author:

How do you drink your coffee? Black. I love it with cream and sugar, but now I need to cut calories.

What are you reading this summer? I spend so much time every morning and evening reading links I find on Twitter, I haven't read many full books in recent years (other than parts of books to write this one). Social media has changed my reading habits drastically. I learn more, but I don't get as much pleasure from reading.

Favorite restaurant in NYC? We live right around the corner from Blue Hill. Every single thing they serve is a jewel. My wife is Korean-American, we also go to Koreatown for Korean BBQ restaurants.

Favorite place you've traveled in last year? This summer, I took my family to South Africa and Botswana. Seeing the Okavango Delta was just extraordinary. Then I went on a speaking tour in New Zealand and Australia with my wife. The South Island of New Zealand is certainly one of the most beautiful places on earth, whether you are flying into Queenstown, climbing a mountain, or sitting at the shores of the lake under a palm tree looking at the snow-capped mountains.