Antisocialmunky Profile Blog Joined March 2010 United States 5897 Posts Last Edited: 2011-02-01 23:59:54 #2 Nice, I've been looking for something like this ever since statikg told me about his Banshee->Viking->BC thing. Couldn't get that to work consistently but this is definitely interesting for the new bigger maps. [ﾟnﾟ] SSSSssssssSSsss ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Marine/Raven Guide:http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=163605

imBLIND Profile Blog Joined December 2006 United States 2387 Posts #3 Sounds like TvT marineking style but with hellions instead. Intriguing. im deaf

SoLaR[i.C] Profile Blog Joined August 2003 United States 2969 Posts Last Edited: 2011-02-02 00:05:46 #4 I'm a player who likes to open up with a couple of quick barracks to produce a group of 6-8 marines as quickly as possible. Do you think this build would be sufficiently strong early to prevent the inevitable front door harass a few minutes into the game? Would your single hellion and 2 marines cut it?

Antisocialmunky Profile Blog Joined March 2010 United States 5897 Posts #5 On February 02 2011 09:03 SoLaR[i.C] wrote:

Would your single vulture and 2 marines cut it?



Depends if you have spider mines.

Depends if you have spider mines. [ﾟnﾟ] SSSSssssssSSsss ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Marine/Raven Guide:http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=163605

FinestHour Profile Joined August 2010 United States 10517 Posts Last Edited: 2011-02-02 00:05:50 #6 Vile Gaming ftw! Will study this guide intensely for use in master league, thanks thug life. MVP/ex-

SoLaR[i.C] Profile Blog Joined August 2003 United States 2969 Posts #7 On February 02 2011 09:04 Antisocialmunky wrote:

Show nested quote +

On February 02 2011 09:03 SoLaR[i.C] wrote:

Would your single vulture and 2 marines cut it?



Depends if you have spider mines.

Depends if you have spider mines.

Damnit. Lol, changed. Damnit. Lol, changed.

iEchoic Profile Blog Joined May 2010 United States 1773 Posts Last Edited: 2011-02-02 00:07:05 #8 On February 02 2011 09:03 SoLaR[i.C] wrote:

I'm a player who likes to open up with a couple of quick barracks to produce a group of 6-8 marines as quickly as possible. Do you think this build would be sufficiently strong early to prevent the inevitable front door harass a few minutes into the game? Would your single vulture and 2 marines cut it?



On further spawns (any cross positions, xelnaga's okay usually, scrap is okay), I've had no trouble. On closer positions (steppes, DQ, close position on 4player map), it can be tricky to hold off. I usually have to run my SCVs for a moment until I get my next two hellions out (so 3 hellions) and do repair micro to hold it off. It is a tough micro game and I take damage often on close positions.



The build is very, very strong vs 2rax openings as blue flame + 2port banshee is very hard to stop without early tech, so I consider any risk worth it. I've never lost to a 2rax opening as long as I don't immediately die.



I actually forgot to add 2rax to the list of openings, I'll edit that in soon, thanks for reminder. On further spawns (any cross positions, xelnaga's okay usually, scrap is okay), I've had no trouble. On closer positions (steppes, DQ, close position on 4player map), it can be tricky to hold off. I usually have to run my SCVs for a moment until I get my next two hellions out (so 3 hellions) and do repair micro to hold it off. It is a tough micro game and I take damage often on close positions.The build is very, very strong vs 2rax openings as blue flame + 2port banshee is very hard to stop without early tech, so I consider any risk worth it. I've never lost to a 2rax opening as long as I don't immediately die.I actually forgot to add 2rax to the list of openings, I'll edit that in soon, thanks for reminder. vileEchoic -- clanvile.com

Antisocialmunky Profile Blog Joined March 2010 United States 5897 Posts Last Edited: 2011-02-02 00:11:03 #9 Random question:



What happens if you play against this strategy with this strategy?



Thors? That would be the obvious choice in the viking war that would ensue. [ﾟnﾟ] SSSSssssssSSsss ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Marine/Raven Guide:http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=163605

iEchoic Profile Blog Joined May 2010 United States 1773 Posts Last Edited: 2011-02-02 00:12:20 #10 On February 02 2011 09:09 Antisocialmunky wrote:

Random question:



What happens if you play against this strategy with this strategy?



Imagine a nuclear holocaust where all people on both sides die, and you have to continually rebuild from scratch. Basically that.



It's the only scenario where having more hellions is better than more vikings because hellions kill other hellions better than banshees do, and even if you have banshees you're not going to stop hellions from killing all your SCVs.



Although you can go for air control and do banshees. You basically have to decide to control one or the other and see how it pans out. I've only played against it once or twice (vs teammates) so I don't know for sure. Imagine a nuclear holocaust where all people on both sides die, and you have to continually rebuild from scratch. Basically that.It's the only scenario where having more hellions is better than more vikings because hellions kill other hellions better than banshees do, and even if you have banshees you're not going to stop hellions from killing all your SCVs.Although you can go for air control and do banshees. You basically have to decide to control one or the other and see how it pans out. I've only played against it once or twice (vs teammates) so I don't know for sure. vileEchoic -- clanvile.com

palookieblue Profile Joined September 2010 Australia 326 Posts #11 Thanks for this - will try out and report back. ((:



One question: I've encountered a lot of SCV+Marine all-ins, or just 4-6 naked rax all-ins: in your experience, can hellions hold this off? oyoyo

Bonkerz Profile Blog Joined September 2010 United States 826 Posts #12 I luuuuv you







thanks,

Bonkerz High masters terran streaming in 720p 60 FPS with commentary and analysis after every game twitch.tv/bonkerz1

Antisocialmunky Profile Blog Joined March 2010 United States 5897 Posts Last Edited: 2011-02-02 00:19:05 #13 On February 02 2011 09:11 iEchoic wrote:

Show nested quote +

On February 02 2011 09:09 Antisocialmunky wrote:

Random question:



What happens if you play against this strategy with this strategy?



Imagine a nuclear holocaust where all people on both sides die, and you have to continually rebuild from scratch. Basically that.



It's the only scenario where having more hellions is better than more vikings because hellions kill other hellions better than banshees do, and even if you have banshees you're not going to stop hellions from killing all your SCVs.



Although you can go for air control and do banshees. You basically have to decide to control one or the other and see how it pans out. I've only played against it once or twice (vs teammates) so I don't know for sure. Imagine a nuclear holocaust where all people on both sides die, and you have to continually rebuild from scratch. Basically that.It's the only scenario where having more hellions is better than more vikings because hellions kill other hellions better than banshees do, and even if you have banshees you're not going to stop hellions from killing all your SCVs.Although you can go for air control and do banshees. You basically have to decide to control one or the other and see how it pans out. I've only played against it once or twice (vs teammates) so I don't know for sure.



This sounds like Broodwar ZvZ. What have you done?



PS. Also, why does ThisIsJimmy appear so often on the losing side of replays? I feel bad for him sometimes. :-\ This sounds like Broodwar ZvZ. What have you done?PS. Also, why does ThisIsJimmy appear so often on the losing side of replays? I feel bad for him sometimes. :-\ [ﾟnﾟ] SSSSssssssSSsss ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Marine/Raven Guide:http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=163605

iEchoic Profile Blog Joined May 2010 United States 1773 Posts Last Edited: 2011-02-02 00:13:50 #14 On February 02 2011 09:11 palookieblue wrote:

Thanks for this - will try out and report back. ((:



One question: I've encountered a lot of SCV+Marine all-ins, or just 4-6 naked rax all-ins: in your experience, can hellions hold this off?



This build hard-counters 4-6 rax allins very easily. Just spread your hellions at the top of your ramp and press H. Everything that comes up will die. Check out the game vs SlayerSBekHo in the replay pack (he didn't allin, but I thought he was, so just do what I did). This build hard-counters 4-6 rax allins very easily. Just spread your hellions at the top of your ramp and press H. Everything that comes up will die. Check out the game vs SlayerSBekHo in the replay pack (he didn't allin, but I thought he was, so just do what I did). vileEchoic -- clanvile.com

huyNh Profile Joined March 2010 Canada 362 Posts #15 i did this a few times, it's a solid opener and works really well in longer spawns and maps where you can't get tank contained really quickly. huyNh.703

Tianx Profile Blog Joined October 2008 United States 1194 Posts #16 Woohoo, another iEchoic build! I've been using a modified version of your TvP build to great effect for the last few months and look forward to trying this out. Intrigue: "as i've said to many others your troubles in life may be directly correlated to your dirty protoss icon"

Fruscainte Profile Blog Joined December 2009 4343 Posts #17 I'm assuming if they go mass tank with marines in bunkers and missile turrets (slow pushing, basically) you should try your hardest to harass their base with Hellions? What if, just for arguments sake though, they got a way to many amount of marines in their base or something in bunkers around their mineral lines with missile turrets, and said push is coming. It may not be economically viable for them, but with this build what would I do?

iEchoic Profile Blog Joined May 2010 United States 1773 Posts Last Edited: 2011-02-02 00:38:13 #18 On February 02 2011 09:33 Fruscainte wrote:

I'm assuming if they go mass tank with marines in bunkers and missile turrets (slow pushing, basically) you should try your hardest to harass their base with Hellions? What if, just for arguments sake though, they got a way to many amount of marines in their base or something in bunkers around their mineral lines with missile turrets, and said push is coming. It may not be economically viable for them, but with this build what would I do?



Try to out-expand them, and in this situation, BCs would be better than banshees, even if no thors are present. Nothing can actually really kill BCs cost-effectively except vikings (which you shouldn't have to worry about) - even turrets, especially once you have yamato (when you factor in the fact that you can attack wherever there are the least turrets, and the cost of all turrets must be taken into account even though only a couple are attacking).



This is probably one of the more difficult playstyles to defeat, and I've lost to it a couple times, but it became much easier once I just started mass expoing, attacking weak spots with hellions, forcing lots of turrets and bunkers, and going BCs. It's going to have to be played the same way a great zerg player handles it - never attack the main army, instead, poke at weak spots and get a large economic advantage.



Also remember you can pull back wounded BCs to repair, and if marines chase, you can burn them with hellions. Try to out-expand them, and in this situation, BCs would be better than banshees, even if no thors are present. Nothing can actually really kill BCs cost-effectively except vikings (which you shouldn't have to worry about) - even turrets, especially once you have yamato (when you factor in the fact that you can attack wherever there are the least turrets, and the cost of all turrets must be taken into account even though only a couple are attacking).This is probably one of the more difficult playstyles to defeat, and I've lost to it a couple times, but it became much easier once I just started mass expoing, attacking weak spots with hellions, forcing lots of turrets and bunkers, and going BCs. It's going to have to be played the same way a great zerg player handles it - never attack the main army, instead, poke at weak spots and get a large economic advantage.Also remember you can pull back wounded BCs to repair, and if marines chase, you can burn them with hellions. vileEchoic -- clanvile.com

[Atomic]Peace Profile Blog Joined April 2010 United States 451 Posts #19 This looks really well done. Watching the replays now. Thanks for putting this together. ☢

vnlegend Profile Blog Joined December 2006 United States 1388 Posts Last Edited: 2011-02-02 01:10:38 #20 Theoretically this sounds nice but it seems like everything is dependent on the hellions which die easily. In TvZ the banelings' job is to blow up all the marines so the mutas can clean up everything. Terrans adjust to this by having more tanks/a few thor and less marines.



I believe this strat can be countered by adding 1-2 thors to any normal army composition. With scans, or a raven, a solid ground-based army can probably bust you before you can get to BCs. Although most people don't get Thors, unless meching, and thinking of it might end up being too late.



Edit: OK I watched the reps. Apparently the opening is designed to do economic damage, everything else afterward isn't important. Marines > everything

1 2 3 4 5 54 55 56 Next