1,716 of 1,875 people found the following review helpful: 3.0 out of 5 stars These dragons don't dance, they stumble., July 14, 2011 By

(REAL NAME) Kate Morris "now with 52% more minty freshness" (Barrie, Ontario Canada) - See all my reviews This review is from: A Dance with Dragons: A Song of Ice and Fire: Book Five (Hardcover) In "A Dance with Dragons," George R.R. Martin seems to have ripped out a page from his own self-written guide to writing a good story, and replaced it with a page from Robert Jordan's version - and in both cases, the change was very much for the worse.



The page he borrowed could charitably be called "Setup," or "Preparation," or even given some grandiose description about the "careful movement and positioning of critical pieces on a game board." In practical terms, though, it comes down to "Delay," "Pointless Stalling," and would be more accurately summed up as "an entire book about multiple characters wandering slowly across the world to approach - but never reach - a place in which something interesting has the potential to happen." For example, everyone's favourite dwarf has a simple goal: he wants to throw in his lot with the dragon queen, offering her whatever advice and wisdom he can. A noble goal, that, and one that would do a great deal to move the story along - his cynicism would open her eyes about some pretty important things. But does he make it to her? Not in this book! No, he's far too busy being packed into barrels like Bilbo the hobbit, swapping tales with cheese lords, being lost, found, sold, and bought, falling in with slaves and signing paper for sellswords, and even being saddled with a plucky lady-dwarf sidekick who continually tells him that he should stop causing trouble and just focus on making the big people laugh, because that's what dwarves are for. In Westeros during the previous four books, he was known and feared as Tyrion of House Lannister, Halfman to the wild mountain tribes, former Hand of the King, unsung hero of Blackwater Bay, the Imp, kinslayer and Kingslayer both; in Essos during this book, all he really manages to do is play a lot of Stratego, reminisce about a previously-unmentioned happy boyhood of gymnastics training in the art of dwarfish capering, and fall convincingly off a trained pig.



The same song is sung throughout the book: nobody actually *gets* anywhere. In Meereen, Daenerys mopes, sighs, tosses her braids, and moons over a pretty boy. On the Wall, Jon Snow hems, haws, asks everyone within earshot for advice on what to do, then completely ignores all of the advice to do something entirely different while complaining about how nobody supports him. Stannis grits his teeth, Melisandre misinterprets prophecies, Dolorous Edd makes comments about mules. A new character is introduced who represents either the most vibrantly crimson scarlet of red herrings, or George R.R. Martin on waterskis leaping majestically over a great white shark; the jury's still out on the kid, but it *is* safe to say that he spends half the book marching determinedly in one direction before abruptly turning around and charging off on completely the opposite course.



And then, there's the issue of the page missing from this book, the page that had elevated the first three books so high above the likes of Goodkind or Jordan. It's the page called "Caprice," or "Injustice," or maybe "Nobody is Safe." It's the page on which he knowingly and thoroughly subverted the standard fantasy tropes of good triumphing over evil, of all death being either deserved (if the deceased was a bad guy, like for instance an orc) or deeply meaningful (a sacrifice, like Boromir dying to protect the hobbits). The previous books used that page, and used it well. No character was sacred: anyone could die at any time, for any reason - or for no reason at all - because the world was a cruel and merciless and fickle place, and justice and honor and fair treatment were exceptions rather than rules.



In "A Dance with Dragons," though - and in "A Feast for Crows," to an extent - that page is notably absent. The Onion Knight, by this point, has gone through more lives than the average cat; while I have great fondness for the character, I almost wish Martin *would* kill him off just so the poor soul could rest. Whenever Arya gets a knife pressed against her throat, it turns out to be a well-meaning rescuer offering her a haircut. Mance dies then reappears good as new, Catelyn died and reappeared (somewhat the worse for wear, in her case), ghosts from the past pop up alive and well and living in the Westerosi equivalent of Paris. At this point, I'm more than half-expecting Khal Drogo to ride up on a skeletal horse and say "Hey Dany babe, I busted out of the nightlands, let's cross the poison water before my afterlife parole officer finds out I'm here." A Song of Ice and Fire has gone from "Nobody is Safe" to "Every Main Character is Totally Safe at this Point," and the suspense is just *gone*.



So, after all that, do I regret reading "A Dance with Dragons"? No. The sad truth is, even a mediocre George R.R. Martin book is better than most of the other offerings in the genre. My thoughtful boyfriend bought it for me on iBooks the very hour it was released, and I'm sincerely grateful that he did, and I'll buy and enjoy the next one just as promptly.



But even though this book was good enough, it can't help but suffer by comparison to the others. On its own merits, I rated "A Dance with Dragons" 3/5 stars; compared to the magnificence of the first three, though, it's more like a 1.5/5. Help other customers find the most helpful reviews Was this review helpful to you? Yes No Report abuse | Permalink Comments (158)

In "A Dance with Dragons," George R.R. Martin seems to have ripped out a page from his own self-written guide to writing a good story, and replaced it with a page from Robert Jordan's version - and in both cases, the change was very much for the worse.The page he borrowed could charitably be called "Setup," or "Preparation," or even given some grandiose description about the "careful movement and positioning of critical pieces on a game board." In practical terms, though, it comes down to "Delay," "Pointless Stalling," and would be more accurately summed up as "an entire book about multiple characters wandering slowly across the world to approach - but never reach - a place in which something interesting has the potential to happen." For example, everyone's favourite dwarf has a simple goal: he wants to throw in his lot with the dragon queen, offering her whatever advice and wisdom he can. A noble goal, that, and one that would do a great deal to move the story along - his cynicism would open her eyes about some pretty important things. But does he make it to her? Not in this book! No, he's far too busy being packed into barrels like Bilbo the hobbit, swapping tales with cheese lords, being lost, found, sold, and bought, falling in with slaves and signing paper for sellswords, and even being saddled with a plucky lady-dwarf sidekick who continually tells him that he should stop causing trouble and just focus on making the big people laugh, because that's what dwarves are for. In Westeros during the previous four books, he was known and feared as Tyrion of House Lannister, Halfman to the wild mountain tribes, former Hand of the King, unsung hero of Blackwater Bay, the Imp, kinslayer and Kingslayer both; in Essos during this book, all he really manages to do is play a lot of Stratego, reminisce about a previously-unmentioned happy boyhood of gymnastics training in the art of dwarfish capering, and fall convincingly off a trained pig.The same song is sung throughout the book: nobody actually *gets* anywhere. In Meereen, Daenerys mopes, sighs, tosses her braids, and moons over a pretty boy. On the Wall, Jon Snow hems, haws, asks everyone within earshot for advice on what to do, then completely ignores all of the advice to do something entirely different while complaining about how nobody supports him. Stannis grits his teeth, Melisandre misinterprets prophecies, Dolorous Edd makes comments about mules. A new character is introduced who represents either the most vibrantly crimson scarlet of red herrings, or George R.R. Martin on waterskis leaping majestically over a great white shark; the jury's still out on the kid, but it *is* safe to say that he spends half the book marching determinedly in one direction before abruptly turning around and charging off on completely the opposite course.And then, there's the issue of the page missing from this book, the page that had elevated the first three books so high above the likes of Goodkind or Jordan. It's the page called "Caprice," or "Injustice," or maybe "Nobody is Safe." It's the page on which he knowingly and thoroughly subverted the standard fantasy tropes of good triumphing over evil, of all death being either deserved (if the deceased was a bad guy, like for instance an orc) or deeply meaningful (a sacrifice, like Boromir dying to protect the hobbits). The previous books used that page, and used it well. No character was sacred: anyone could die at any time, for any reason - or for no reason at all - because the world was a cruel and merciless and fickle place, and justice and honor and fair treatment were exceptions rather than rules.In "A Dance with Dragons," though - and in "A Feast for Crows," to an extent - that page is notably absent. The Onion Knight, by this point, has gone through more lives than the average cat; while I have great fondness for the character, I almost wish Martin *would* kill him off just so the poor soul could rest. Whenever Arya gets a knife pressed against her throat, it turns out to be a well-meaning rescuer offering her a haircut. Mance dies then reappears good as new, Catelyn died and reappeared (somewhat the worse for wear, in her case), ghosts from the past pop up alive and well and living in the Westerosi equivalent of Paris. At this point, I'm more than half-expecting Khal Drogo to ride up on a skeletal horse and say "Hey Dany babe, I busted out of the nightlands, let's cross the poison water before my afterlife parole officer finds out I'm here." A Song of Ice and Fire has gone from "Nobody is Safe" to "Every Main Character is Totally Safe at this Point," and the suspense is just *gone*.So, after all that, do I regret reading "A Dance with Dragons"? No. The sad truth is, even a mediocre George R.R. Martin book is better than most of the other offerings in the genre. My thoughtful boyfriend bought it for me on iBooks the very hour it was released, and I'm sincerely grateful that he did, and I'll buy and enjoy the next one just as promptly.But even though this book was good enough, it can't help but suffer by comparison to the others. On its own merits, I rated "A Dance with Dragons" 3/5 stars; compared to the magnificence of the first three, though, it's more like a 1.5/5.

454 of 492 people found the following review helpful: 2.0 out of 5 stars THE EMBITTERED READER, August 24, 2011 By kehnonymous - See all my reviews This review is from: A Dance with Dragons: A Song of Ice and Fire: Book Five (Hardcover) (why yes, I am mocking GRRM's stylistic excess as part of this review)



He broke his fast with boiled neeps, and shivering stew, washed down with a flagon of Dornish ale. The grease from stewed salt pork clung to his gristly beard as he donned a slashed velvet doublet of purple satin, emblazoned with the crest of Ser Eddard Bauer. Over his smallclothes, he wore black pantaloons. He clambered into his Honda and began the short journey west, bearing northwards along the interstate. He turned left, edging his way past opposing traffic. If I look back, I am lost.



His office was a dull brown keep that sat astride the Crown Road. His desk was hidden behind a soundproofed beige cubicle and was lined with a faux wood finish. Reek, reek, it rhymes with teak.



He had finished A Dance with Dragons not a noonsday before and wondered if in truth he had finished the entire series. George R. R. Martin is so constipated from the fawnings of his lickspittles and self-indulgent side stories that he's not like to drop another turd of a novel anytime soon, if the last decade has told it true, he thought to himself.



He smirked at his own witticism. "It is known" he said aloud to himself.



To tell it true, he had enjoyed several parts of the novel. Jon Snow's first chapter was strong, as were the Bran and Davos chapters. He'd not expected that. Many of the early story arcs had glistened wetly with promise but of these Martin had written little and less as the book wore on. Of Dany's aimless navel-gazing, there'd been much and more. Asha and Victarion vied for the distinction of the most pointless Greyjoy POV. Ariane Martell had twisted her teats for naught, for her brother Quentyn's chapters proved to be as useless as nipples on a breastplate. Gods be good, he thought, the fat man teased us with Feast's Dorne chapters for.... this?



And Jaime... that had been the cruelest jape of all. Best that Martin had left out his sole chapter. Though, given the masturbatory excess of Dance's prose, Martin could have learned a thing or two from a man who'd had to make do without his sword hand.



The epilogue was a satisfying end to an unsavory meal, but even the most succulent lemoncake doesn't salvage a bland and unfilling meal of gruel. In truth, it should've been left in A Feast for Crows, along with Cersei's chapters. At least then at least one of the novels from the last ten years would've amounted to more than a mummer's farce.



He set down his copy of A Dance with Dragons with an unsatisfying thud. Words are wind, he mused. Speaking of which... He raised a leg and broke his word. It smelt of stale bacon grease and mashed neeps.



By then, his bladder was full to bursting from the morning's coffee, so he headed to the latrine before he pissed his smallclothes. Reek, reek, it rhymes with leak. Along the way, he passed the receptionist from the adjoining office. She was a pretty brown-haired thing, a woman of about four-and-twenty, fully flowered.



"Where do whores go?", he asked her.



She slapped him.



He entered the men's bathroom and undid his breeches. The urinals were crofted from gleaming white porcelain and bore the seal of American Standard. Whilst it received his golden stream of the morning's piss, he contemplated how this was a metaphor for how Ser Martin had raised the leg and done the same to the continuity of A Song of Ice and Fire and the first three books.



He angrily composed an e-mail to Martin's editor whilst zipping up his breeches. He was only a man grown, unskilled in the ways of editing, but such was his wroth.



You know nothing, Anne Groell... Help other customers find the most helpful reviews Was this review helpful to you? Yes No Report abuse | Permalink Comments (43)

(why yes, I am mocking GRRM's stylistic excess as part of this review)He broke his fast with boiled neeps, and shivering stew, washed down with a flagon of Dornish ale. The grease from stewed salt pork clung to his gristly beard as he donned a slashed velvet doublet of purple satin, emblazoned with the crest of Ser Eddard Bauer. Over his smallclothes, he wore black pantaloons. He clambered into his Honda and began the short journey west, bearing northwards along the interstate. He turned left, edging his way past opposing traffic. If I look back, I am lost.His office was a dull brown keep that sat astride the Crown Road. His desk was hidden behind a soundproofed beige cubicle and was lined with a faux wood finish. Reek, reek, it rhymes with teak.He had finished A Dance with Dragons not a noonsday before and wondered if in truth he had finished the entire series. George R. R. Martin is so constipated from the fawnings of his lickspittles and self-indulgent side stories that he's not like to drop another turd of a novel anytime soon, if the last decade has told it true, he thought to himself.He smirked at his own witticism. "It is known" he said aloud to himself.To tell it true, he had enjoyed several parts of the novel. Jon Snow's first chapter was strong, as were the Bran and Davos chapters. He'd not expected that. Many of the early story arcs had glistened wetly with promise but of these Martin had written little and less as the book wore on. Of Dany's aimless navel-gazing, there'd been much and more. Asha and Victarion vied for the distinction of the most pointless Greyjoy POV. Ariane Martell had twisted her teats for naught, for her brother Quentyn's chapters proved to be as useless as nipples on a breastplate. Gods be good, he thought, the fat man teased us with Feast's Dorne chapters for.... this?And Jaime... that had been the cruelest jape of all. Best that Martin had left out his sole chapter. Though, given the masturbatory excess of Dance's prose, Martin could have learned a thing or two from a man who'd had to make do without his sword hand.The epilogue was a satisfying end to an unsavory meal, but even the most succulent lemoncake doesn't salvage a bland and unfilling meal of gruel. In truth, it should've been left in A Feast for Crows, along with Cersei's chapters. At least then at least one of the novels from the last ten years would've amounted to more than a mummer's farce.He set down his copy of A Dance with Dragons with an unsatisfying thud. Words are wind, he mused. Speaking of which... He raised a leg and broke his word. It smelt of stale bacon grease and mashed neeps.By then, his bladder was full to bursting from the morning's coffee, so he headed to the latrine before he pissed his smallclothes. Reek, reek, it rhymes with leak. Along the way, he passed the receptionist from the adjoining office. She was a pretty brown-haired thing, a woman of about four-and-twenty, fully flowered."Where do whores go?", he asked her.She slapped him.He entered the men's bathroom and undid his breeches. The urinals were crofted from gleaming white porcelain and bore the seal of American Standard. Whilst it received his golden stream of the morning's piss, he contemplated how this was a metaphor for how Ser Martin had raised the leg and done the same to the continuity of A Song of Ice and Fire and the first three books.He angrily composed an e-mail to Martin's editor whilst zipping up his breeches. He was only a man grown, unskilled in the ways of editing, but such was his wroth.You know nothing, Anne Groell...

532 of 581 people found the following review helpful: 3.0 out of 5 stars Honest review from a fan, July 14, 2011 By Lucas Diego (Redding, California) - See all my reviews Amazon Verified Purchase What's this?) This review is from: A Dance with Dragons: A Song of Ice and Fire: Book Five (Hardcover) So, to lighten the blow a little first, I will make it clear that I am a GRRM fan and a fan of the Song of Ice and Fire series. Like many others, I think the first three books were some of the best fantasy books ever written. They held my interest like few others, took directions many other writers would not dare to take and had me itching to read the next. I'm a fan who checked on the status of this book at least a couple dozen times through each year to see how the progress was coming and I'm a fan who also believes in a writer taking the time he or she needs to do it properly.



That said, Feast for Crows and now, Dance with Dragons (and I really hate to say this) bored me, and honestly, while I wouldn't mind reading how the story ends I really don't care that much if the series is finished or not at this point. I may just be a lowly customer, reader, and fan so what would I know about editing, story-building, etc., and GRRM may be the professional writer and it went through professional editors but for all the good narrative style and use of language and description, it seems they made a cardinal writing sin:



Not keeping the story moving.



I believe at this point in a book series' life, the story needs to be picking up faster and faster. You need downtimes of course, and a little exposition in each book to get everyone up to speed again is a good thing...but not through the majority of the book.



I really feel that Feast for Crows and Dance with Dragons are books that shouldn't have been written. I understand that the author originally planned a time skip by five years after Storm of Swords and honestly, I felt that would have been better. Between the two books, I just felt very little moved forward in terms of the actual story.



Of course, there will be many and probably the majority disagreeing with me and that is their full right to do so. We're all entitled to our opinions. If you loved Feast for Crows and Dance with Dragons or just love to soak up everything you can from the story's world, then that's awesome. I wish I could have enjoyed them as much as you. I really do.



But I didn't. Help other customers find the most helpful reviews Was this review helpful to you? Yes No Report abuse | Permalink Comments (13)

So, to lighten the blow a little first, I will make it clear that I am a GRRM fan and a fan of the Song of Ice and Fire series. Like many others, I think the first three books were some of the best fantasy books ever written. They held my interest like few others, took directions many other writers would not dare to take and had me itching to read the next. I'm a fan who checked on the status of this book at least a couple dozen times through each year to see how the progress was coming and I'm a fan who also believes in a writer taking the time he or she needs to do it properly.That said, Feast for Crows and now, Dance with Dragons (and I really hate to say this) bored me, and honestly, while I wouldn't mind reading how the story ends I really don't care that much if the series is finished or not at this point. I may just be a lowly customer, reader, and fan so what would I know about editing, story-building, etc., and GRRM may be the professional writer and it went through professional editors but for all the good narrative style and use of language and description, it seems they made a cardinal writing sin:Not keeping the story moving.I believe at this point in a book series' life, the story needs to be picking up faster and faster. You need downtimes of course, and a little exposition in each book to get everyone up to speed again is a good thing...but not through the majority of the book.I really feel that Feast for Crows and Dance with Dragons are books that shouldn't have been written. I understand that the author originally planned a time skip by five years after Storm of Swords and honestly, I felt that would have been better. Between the two books, I just felt very little moved forward in terms of the actual story.Of course, there will be many and probably the majority disagreeing with me and that is their full right to do so. We're all entitled to our opinions. If you loved Feast for Crows and Dance with Dragons or just love to soak up everything you can from the story's world, then that's awesome. I wish I could have enjoyed them as much as you. I really do.But I didn't.

315 of 344 people found the following review helpful: 2.0 out of 5 stars A few juicy moments drowned in gruel, July 21, 2011 By Weeks - See all my reviews Amazon Verified Purchase What's this?) This review is from: A Dance with Dragons: A Song of Ice and Fire: Book Five (Kindle Edition)



I really wanted to enjoy dance, bad. As upset as i was with the 5 year wait to get the second half of a mediocre book...i was really willing to give it a chance. I bought it the second it came out, brought my kindle with me everywhere so i could read it in my down time - paid close attention and picked up on little subtle things others might have missed - all this, and i was still disappointed. (not in the Kindle tho, this thing is awesome, and no I'm not getting paid to say this. It's perfect for someone who travels a lot for work).



It really boils down to this - it doesn't feel like Martin enjoys writing about this world anymore. His behavior reinforces this feeling, too. It's like he's just bored of this world and has lost that energetic spark to create.



Reading the first three books, it was like a man excited about the world he was building, excited about the stories, the characters, excited about what he was going to DO with them and he wanted to get there as smoothly and quickly as possible. Remember when Catelyn left for King's Landing in one chapter, and then arrived there next chapter? It's because the journey was unimportant - that stuff was filler - what happened to her IN King's Landing was important.



Reading the last two, it was like he wasn't really sure what to do anymore, he couldn't figure out where he was going, he just had to fill up the pages with something, and he kept thinking back and forth on what to write. adding, deleting, adding, deleting - this is a worrisome sign when indecision, apathy, and indifference about a tale begin to rear their ugly head.



It's this energetic drive when you have a story you want to tell. But I didn't get that here from Martin, which is disappointing, because the man has genuine talent. He just doesn't seem to be inspired enough to use it. I never got the impression of a clear vision. I didn't get a sense of his excitement for these characters. It shows up in a lot of ways - the tired cliches, the empty characterizations of the main viewpoints - it feels like Dance was a homework assignment to him, a very unwelcome homework assignment. "This one was a three bitches and a bastard", indeed it was, and that feeling comes across in his writing style.



I really just feel he's bored and out of ideas. He's tired of Westeros, he isn't sure what to do anymore, and he's just stringing things along with random WTF moments thrown in to try and maintain our interest and fake excitement. It's similar to sudden loud sounds or 'GOTCHA' moments in bad scary movies; using cheap tricks to try and evoke a sense of fear when the plot itself can't.



There are only a few moments where I get a sense of the old Martin. Reading Theon's chapters were interesting. Theon actually had an arc, an evolution, and you got the sense that George enjoyed telling this story. Too bad he had to ruin it with yet another cliffhanger ending. In fact, this was one of the few true cliffhangers in the book, in my opinion. The other 'cliffhangers' were never set up properly and are more like 'dangling threads' that came out of nowhere.



We have Jon getting the Caesar treatment, Stannis marching on Winterfell, Theon and Jeyne escaping, Aegon landing in Westeros, the situation on the Wall, the Pink Letter... Too much buildup here with too little payoff!



And then one of the big cliffhanger moments from the first book - Brienne - gets barely a mention in this! We are left to deduce what she most likely said and her agreement to lead Jaime to UnCat in return for her life - yet another plotline that goes nowhere. At the end of the book, effectively, nothing big or major has happened that we can see the result of. Dany is basically back where she started, realizing she should have gone to Westeros. The entire sideshow in Meereen has effectively accomplished nothing. A lot of interesting things happen to the characters that are ultimately irrelevant. The Others are still persona non grata, mentioned only in shadows. Dragons still haven't returned. Stannis hasn't really conquered anything meaningful. Tommen is still king. Dorne is still 'progressing'. The Ironborn are still the same. Not enough major action has happened. I can accept one book of mostly filler, but two? A Dance with Dragons feels like it was written to meet a word count! What's next, he goes through and increases the font size on all the periods to add some more volume? He might as well, it'd be just as entertaining.



The problem is, Martin could have easily given us at least one big climax in this book. You could have given us a Meereen showdown with results, you could have given us Jon's "death" and obvious rebirth as Azhor Az'hai or whatever, you could have given us the Others finally attacking in force, you could have given us Victarion or Tyrion meeting Dany, you could have given us the battle of Winterfell and the results - there are so many things he could have done that we don't get to see. He could have given us the first use of Dragons in war, and that would have fit right in the with the title. I don't mind cliffhangers, but really we should have gotten SOMETHING resolved in this book so it doesn't feel like a giant tease.



The few redeeming moments for me - Selmy, Wyman's awesomeness ("So young" said Wyman Manderly. "Though mayhaps this was a blessing. Had he lived, he would have grown up to be a Frey."), "Would you like Freys with that", Theon - simply don't add enough to justify book for me.



If you enjoy reading detailed prose, and seeing a world being built by a very skilled author, you might enjoy this. If you're a huge fan of everything remotely to do with the world Martin has skillfully created, then you will find a lot here to fill in the blanks. Unfortunately, most of those blanks were blank for a reason - we just didn't care. I still don't.



If you're a fan of an engaging, interesting plot - the sort of plot that we saw in the first three books - I'd give it a pass.



PS: Martin may denounce us here at Amazon as trolls and sockpuppets, but I think that makes a mockery of the good rating system that has made Amazon so useful for people like me in the past. Mr. Martin, if you read this, please make note of the 'verified purchaser' next to this review. I'm a real person, with a real opinion. Help other customers find the most helpful reviews Was this review helpful to you? Yes No Report abuse | Permalink Comments (15)

Warning, there are spoilers below.I really wanted to enjoy dance, bad. As upset as i was with the 5 year wait to get the second half of a mediocre book...i was really willing to give it a chance. I bought it the second it came out, brought my kindle with me everywhere so i could read it in my down time - paid close attention and picked up on little subtle things others might have missed - all this, and i was still disappointed. (not in the Kindle tho, this thing is awesome, and no I'm not getting paid to say this. It's perfect for someone who travels a lot for work).It really boils down to this - it doesn't feel like Martin enjoys writing about this world anymore. His behavior reinforces this feeling, too. It's like he's just bored of this world and has lost that energetic spark to create.Reading the first three books, it was like a man excited about the world he was building, excited about the stories, the characters, excited about what he was going to DO with them and he wanted to get there as smoothly and quickly as possible. Remember when Catelyn left for King's Landing in one chapter, and then arrived there next chapter? It's because the journey was unimportant - that stuff was filler - what happened to her IN King's Landing was important.Reading the last two, it was like he wasn't really sure what to do anymore, he couldn't figure out where he was going, he just had to fill up the pages with something, and he kept thinking back and forth on what to write. adding, deleting, adding, deleting - this is a worrisome sign when indecision, apathy, and indifference about a tale begin to rear their ugly head.It's this energetic drive when you have a story you want to tell. But I didn't get that here from Martin, which is disappointing, because the man has genuine talent. He just doesn't seem to be inspired enough to use it. I never got the impression of a clear vision. I didn't get a sense of his excitement for these characters. It shows up in a lot of ways - the tired cliches, the empty characterizations of the main viewpoints - it feels like Dance was a homework assignment to him, a very unwelcome homework assignment. "This one was a three bitches and a bastard", indeed it was, and that feeling comes across in his writing style.I really just feel he's bored and out of ideas. He's tired of Westeros, he isn't sure what to do anymore, and he's just stringing things along with random WTF moments thrown in to try and maintain our interest and fake excitement. It's similar to sudden loud sounds or 'GOTCHA' moments in bad scary movies; using cheap tricks to try and evoke a sense of fear when the plot itself can't.There are only a few moments where I get a sense of the old Martin. Reading Theon's chapters were interesting. Theon actually had an arc, an evolution, and you got the sense that George enjoyed telling this story. Too bad he had to ruin it with yet another cliffhanger ending. In fact, this was one of the few true cliffhangers in the book, in my opinion. The other 'cliffhangers' were never set up properly and are more like 'dangling threads' that came out of nowhere.We have Jon getting the Caesar treatment, Stannis marching on Winterfell, Theon and Jeyne escaping, Aegon landing in Westeros, the situation on the Wall, the Pink Letter... Too much buildup here with too little payoff!And then one of the big cliffhanger moments from the first book - Brienne - gets barely a mention in this! We are left to deduce what she most likely said and her agreement to lead Jaime to UnCat in return for her life - yet another plotline that goes nowhere. At the end of the book, effectively, nothing big or major has happened that we can see the result of. Dany is basically back where she started, realizing she should have gone to Westeros. The entire sideshow in Meereen has effectively accomplished nothing. A lot of interesting things happen to the characters that are ultimately irrelevant. The Others are still persona non grata, mentioned only in shadows. Dragons still haven't returned. Stannis hasn't really conquered anything meaningful. Tommen is still king. Dorne is still 'progressing'. The Ironborn are still the same. Not enough major action has happened. I can accept one book of mostly filler, but two? A Dance with Dragons feels like it was written to meet a word count! What's next, he goes through and increases the font size on all the periods to add some more volume? He might as well, it'd be just as entertaining.The problem is, Martin could have easily given us at least one big climax in this book. You could have given us a Meereen showdown with results, you could have given us Jon's "death" and obvious rebirth as Azhor Az'hai or whatever, you could have given us the Others finally attacking in force, you could have given us Victarion or Tyrion meeting Dany, you could have given us the battle of Winterfell and the results - there are so many things he could have done that we don't get to see. He could have given us the first use of Dragons in war, and that would have fit right in the with the title. I don't mind cliffhangers, but really we should have gotten SOMETHING resolved in this book so it doesn't feel like a giant tease.The few redeeming moments for me - Selmy, Wyman's awesomeness ("So young" said Wyman Manderly. "Though mayhaps this was a blessing. Had he lived, he would have grown up to be a Frey."), "Would you like Freys with that", Theon - simply don't add enough to justify book for me.If you enjoy reading detailed prose, and seeing a world being built by a very skilled author, you might enjoy this. If you're a huge fan of everything remotely to do with the world Martin has skillfully created, then you will find a lot here to fill in the blanks. Unfortunately, most of those blanks were blank for a reason - we just didn't care. I still don't.If you're a fan of an engaging, interesting plot - the sort of plot that we saw in the first three books - I'd give it a pass.PS: Martin may denounce us here at Amazon as trolls and sockpuppets, but I think that makes a mockery of the good rating system that has made Amazon so useful for people like me in the past. Mr. Martin, if you read this, please make note of the 'verified purchaser' next to this review. I'm a real person, with a real opinion.

542 of 596 people found the following review helpful: 1.0 out of 5 stars Feast for Crows, part 2 of 3 ! Ice & Fire, part 5 of 12?, July 28, 2011 By

(REAL NAME) J. Whelan (New York, NY USA) - See all my reviews This review is from: A Dance with Dragons: A Song of Ice and Fire: Book Five (Hardcover) I am trying to be fair, and I will not deny that this book had for me some elements of interest. I read all 5 volumes in quick succession, and I still feel semi-invested. But I am honestly not sure this volume (or even the series as a whole) deserves even the 2 stars I am tempted to give it. GRRM has sucked me in, but he also makes me feel like a sucker. And having read it, I would now give 10:1 odds that the series will never be completed.



This latest volume alone contains 959 hardback pages; over 400,000 words; close to matching in length all 3 volumes of Tolkien's LORD OF THE RINGS. How could a book this long contain so little in the way of plot progression? Is the author stalling on purpose, or is this the only way he can cope with some weird kind of writer's block?



Part of the problem was that George RR Martin, whatever his talent for piquing the readers interest and keeping him turning pages, was never that efficient a writer. He often uses 10 words to say would could be better said in 5. Even the early volumes could, in my opinion, be trimmed down significantly and be the better for it (in particular, I could have without the voyeuristic sex stuff, constant whore references, etc.). But the level of inefficiency and bloat has increased with each volume, reaching new heights with the last two.



The other part of the problem is the proliferation of characters and points of view ("POVs"):



1. Game of Thrones: 9 povs

2. Clash of Kings: 10 povs

3. Storm of Swords: 12 povs

4. Feast for Crows: 13 povs

5. Dance with Dragons: 18 povs

4/5. Feast/Dance combined: 25 povs



If you consider that FEAST and DANCE are supposed to be "the same book" divided by POV, then you can see that the number of POVs suddenly doubled after STORM. No wonder the story suddenly became unmanageable for the author. If one divides ones story between twice as many different characters in twice as many different locations, then the story can only progress half as fast. And if your chapters contain twice as much bloat (as seems to have happened), the your story can only progress one quarter as fast.



And then the author starts repeating himself, perhaps because he fears you have not seen So-and-So in so long that you have forgotten what happened last time. More bloat.



A third aspect of the problem is this: In the first volume, not only were there only 9 povs, but they were mostly gathered in the same place and time and able to help a single storyline forward. GAME OF THRONES started most of the main POVs together, such that there were initially 2 main threads, which then divided into 3 main threads. Only at the end of the volume were the 7 surviving POVs completely scattered to the winds. Then did the author require 2 more (larger) volumes to complete the same level of plot progression that the first volume had. And yet many fans remained patient and even enthusiastic. Then it got worse ...



By the end of DANCE, we still have about 20 surviving POVs, and they are all still all scattered. One would think that the author would recognize this problem created by this vast scope, and adjust his writing style accordingly. But no. He thinks he has the time to describe how it feels for a character to urinate, and then describe a conversation he has with another character about how good he is is at urinating. Will his urinations skills have future plot relevance? He thinks he has the time to spend an entire paragraph describing a humble boat whose sole plot function is to transport a minor character from point A to point B (and leave him there), and then the author wastes another paragraph on how this minor character could have arrived on a nicer boat had things been different. George, you could have saved half a page, there. There are COUNTLESS such examples. Each chapter needs to have its length cut in half AT LEAST.



So where are we now? How close is he to finished.



THRONES was originally sold as the first of a "trilogy" (though the author admits he already knew better at publicaton). But his "trilogy" plan had originally been as follows:



Part 1: Game of Thrones: Covering War of 5 Kings.

Part 2: Dance of Dragons: Dany invades Westeros

Part 3: Winds of Winter



Well, he ended up needing a full 3 volumes to complete part 1. Part 2 was supposed to resume the story 5 years later, but for whatever reason, the author decided to scrap this plan and write an interim volume called "FEAST FOR CROWS". Let's call this Part 1.5. Well, as you recall, FEAST ended up becoming so bloated that it had to be split in two volumes, the second half being what is now being released as "A Dance with Dragons."



But the bad news is, this unplanned Part 1.5 is not even finished. All the threads that were set up in FEAST and DANCE to converge on Meereen have not reached there yet, as this latest closes. Hey, remember that guy Victarion with the dragon horn who set off for Meereen at the beginning of FEAST FOR CROWS. Well, he is still at sea. BUT HE'S GETTING CLOSE!!! When will Dany finally land in Westeros? At this rate, it won't be until volume 7, because she will need all of Volume 6 to resolve the impending climax in Meereen.



So here is a release schedule, with my estimated projections into the future, giving George 5 years to complete each future volume:



Part I, Vol 1 (A Game of Thrones): 1996

Part I, Vol 2 (A Clash of Kings): 1998

Part I, Vol 3 (A Storm of Swords): 2000



Part 1.5, Vol 1 (A Feast for Crows): 2005

Part 1.5, Vol 2 (A Dance with Dragons): 2011

Part 1.5, Vol 3 ... 2016 (Climax in Meereen)



Part 2, Vol 1 .... 2021 Dany reaches Westeros)

Part 2, Vol 2 .... 2026

Part 2, Vol 3 .... 2031



Part 3, Vol 1 .... 2036

Part 3, Vol 2 .... 2041

Part 3, Vol 3 .... 2046



GRRM still says he hopes to finish the series in seven volumes. But if that were so, those who believed that promise had a right to expect better story progress in this volume. He should just be honest and say that he hopes to complete the series in 12 volumes and that he also hopes to live to be 120 in excellent health (don't we all). That way, potential readers could make an informed decision as to whether they should invest time and money in this story.



But I cannot see it at his current rate. This story will not be resolved, and readers who hope for a resolution are wasting their time with it. That's how I am calling it. George, you are welcome to prove me wrong. Help other customers find the most helpful reviews Was this review helpful to you? Yes No Report abuse | Permalink Comments (43)

I am trying to be fair, and I will not deny that this book had for me some elements of interest. I read all 5 volumes in quick succession, and I still feel semi-invested. But I am honestly not sure this volume (or even the series as a whole) deserves even the 2 stars I am tempted to give it. GRRM has sucked me in, but he also makes me feel like a sucker. And having read it, I would now give 10:1 odds that the series will never be completed.This latest volume alone contains 959 hardback pages; over 400,000 words; close to matching in length all 3 volumes of Tolkien's LORD OF THE RINGS. How could a book this long contain so little in the way of plot progression? Is the author stalling on purpose, or is this the only way he can cope with some weird kind of writer's block?Part of the problem was that George RR Martin, whatever his talent for piquing the readers interest and keeping him turning pages, was never that efficient a writer. He often uses 10 words to say would could be better said in 5. Even the early volumes could, in my opinion, be trimmed down significantly and be the better for it (in particular, I could have without the voyeuristic sex stuff, constant whore references, etc.). But the level of inefficiency and bloat has increased with each volume, reaching new heights with the last two.The other part of the problem is the proliferation of characters and points of view ("POVs"):1. Game of Thrones: 9 povs2. Clash of Kings: 10 povs3. Storm of Swords: 12 povs4. Feast for Crows: 13 povs5. Dance with Dragons: 18 povs4/5. Feast/Dance combined: 25 povsIf you consider that FEAST and DANCE are supposed to be "the same book" divided by POV, then you can see that the number of POVs suddenly doubled after STORM. No wonder the story suddenly became unmanageable for the author. If one divides ones story between twice as many different characters in twice as many different locations, then the story can only progress half as fast. And if your chapters contain twice as much bloat (as seems to have happened), the your story can only progress one quarter as fast.And then the author starts repeating himself, perhaps because he fears you have not seen So-and-So in so long that you have forgotten what happened last time. More bloat.A third aspect of the problem is this: In the first volume, not only were there only 9 povs, but they were mostly gathered in the same place and time and able to help a single storyline forward. GAME OF THRONES started most of the main POVs together, such that there were initially 2 main threads, which then divided into 3 main threads. Only at the end of the volume were the 7 surviving POVs completely scattered to the winds. Then did the author require 2 more (larger) volumes to complete the same level of plot progression that the first volume had. And yet many fans remained patient and even enthusiastic. Then it got worse ...By the end of DANCE, we still have about 20 surviving POVs, and they are all still all scattered. One would think that the author would recognize this problem created by this vast scope, and adjust his writing style accordingly. But no. He thinks he has the time to describe how it feels for a character to urinate, and then describe a conversation he has with another character about how good he is is at urinating. Will his urinations skills have future plot relevance? He thinks he has the time to spend an entire paragraph describing a humble boat whose sole plot function is to transport a minor character from point A to point B (and leave him there), and then the author wastes another paragraph on how this minor character could have arrived on a nicer boat had things been different. George, you could have saved half a page, there. There are COUNTLESS such examples. Each chapter needs to have its length cut in half AT LEAST.So where are we now? How close is he to finished.THRONES was originally sold as the first of a "trilogy" (though the author admits he already knew better at publicaton). But his "trilogy" plan had originally been as follows:Part 1: Game of Thrones: Covering War of 5 Kings.Part 2: Dance of Dragons: Dany invades WesterosPart 3: Winds of WinterWell, he ended up needing a full 3 volumes to complete part 1. Part 2 was supposed to resume the story 5 years later, but for whatever reason, the author decided to scrap this plan and write an interim volume called "FEAST FOR CROWS". Let's call this Part 1.5. Well, as you recall, FEAST ended up becoming so bloated that it had to be split in two volumes, the second half being what is now being released as "A Dance with Dragons."But the bad news is, this unplanned Part 1.5 is not even finished. All the threads that were set up in FEAST and DANCE to converge on Meereen have not reached there yet, as this latest closes. Hey, remember that guy Victarion with the dragon horn who set off for Meereen at the beginning of FEAST FOR CROWS. Well, he is still at sea. BUT HE'S GETTING CLOSE!!! When will Dany finally land in Westeros? At this rate, it won't be until volume 7, because she will need all of Volume 6 to resolve the impending climax in Meereen.So here is a release schedule, with my estimated projections into the future, giving George 5 years to complete each future volume:Part I, Vol 1 (A Game of Thrones): 1996Part I, Vol 2 (A Clash of Kings): 1998Part I, Vol 3 (A Storm of Swords): 2000Part 1.5, Vol 1 (A Feast for Crows): 2005Part 1.5, Vol 2 (A Dance with Dragons): 2011Part 1.5, Vol 3 ... 2016 (Climax in Meereen)Part 2, Vol 1 .... 2021 Dany reaches Westeros)Part 2, Vol 2 .... 2026Part 2, Vol 3 .... 2031Part 3, Vol 1 .... 2036Part 3, Vol 2 .... 2041Part 3, Vol 3 .... 2046GRRM still says he hopes to finish the series in seven volumes. But if that were so, those who believed that promise had a right to expect better story progress in this volume. He should just be honest and say that he hopes to complete the series in 12 volumes and that he also hopes to live to be 120 in excellent health (don't we all). That way, potential readers could make an informed decision as to whether they should invest time and money in this story.But I cannot see it at his current rate. This story will not be resolved, and readers who hope for a resolution are wasting their time with it. That's how I am calling it. George, you are welcome to prove me wrong.

1,019 of 1,133 people found the following review helpful: 3.0 out of 5 stars Better than AFFC, Barely, July 13, 2011 By Richard Raley "The King Henry Tapes" (California) - See all my reviews Amazon Verified Purchase What's this?) This review is from: A Dance with Dragons: A Song of Ice and Fire: Book Five (Kindle Edition)



Dany mastering her dragons, escaping the Meereen situation, and heading west.

Tyrion arriving at Dany's court to serve her in his unique ways.

The battle with the Others finally starting in a serious way.

Jon learning who he is.

Cersei's trial and the unleashing of FrankinGregor.

What is Jaime going to do?

Is Briennie dead, what did she say to get out of the noose?

Quentyn arriving at Dany's court and revealing Dorne's plans to her.

Victarion using the horn to control the dragons.

Bran meeting the Greenseer and finishing his training.

Arya finishing her training.



A pretty obvious list based on the story so far, right? I would have been happy with 3 of these stories moving along, 4 would have been downright wonderful. Instead I got one and a half. And the kicker...it's the last one and a half I would have chosen.



This would have been bad enough...only it got worse. GRRM manages to add two more very interesting plotlines, one of which is Stannis' battle for the North, the other of which we'll let be a secret, and he gives no resolution for them either.



This is a novel that ended 200 hundred pages short. Throughout all of it we are given two "big" stories, the North and the East, and both of them look to lead towards large power altering battles that will rival the Blackwater...only we never get to them. The book stops before BOTH.



It is a novel filled with ships sailing, and sailing, and sailing some more. Of marching, and marching, and marching some more. Jon Snow becomes muddled in food stores, concerned with wildlings, with not an Other in sight of the wall. Dany reverts back to trying to save absolutely everyone, doing anything at all to make a false peace, and turns on her own dragons. Cersei has 2 chapters, Jaime 1, and both of them feel like they should have either been included into AFFC or left out till Book 6. Bran and Ayra train, but it has no end in sight.



Tyrion....Tyrion learns to cherish his inner dwarf. If all this doesn't sound exciting, don't worry, you will be lucky enough to get to read near 50 pages of food descriptions scattered about the novel. There is also about 100 "You know nothing, Jon Snows", about 50 "Words are Wind" and considerable "I must go forward" and something about Lannister's and debts I didn't know about...



I can't say it was all bad. If there wasn't good I wouldn't be so disappointing in where the book ended after all. Reek, Barristan, Asha, and Davos were all fantastic, the single Melisandre chapter shed much light on a certain bastard's destiny, and my main-dragon Drogon was the star of the book.



But...I have just finished 1000 pages, it is fresh in my mind, and what drives me to my disappointment is the thought of another 5 years...where I will have my list above, one scratched off, and yet two more added.



3.5 but it doesn't deserve the curve. Help other customers find the most helpful reviews Was this review helpful to you? Yes No Report abuse | Permalink Comments (118)

If you had told me to make a list off the top of my head before I sat down to read this novel, of events I'd want to see, or resolutions I was looking for, it would have been something like:Dany mastering her dragons, escaping the Meereen situation, and heading west.Tyrion arriving at Dany's court to serve her in his unique ways.The battle with the Others finally starting in a serious way.Jon learning who he is.Cersei's trial and the unleashing of FrankinGregor.What is Jaime going to do?Is Briennie dead, what did she say to get out of the noose?Quentyn arriving at Dany's court and revealing Dorne's plans to her.Victarion using the horn to control the dragons.Bran meeting the Greenseer and finishing his training.Arya finishing her training.A pretty obvious list based on the story so far, right? I would have been happy with 3 of these stories moving along, 4 would have been downright wonderful. Instead I got one and a half. And the kicker...it's the last one and a half I would have chosen.This would have been bad enough...only it got worse. GRRM manages to add two more very interesting plotlines, one of which is Stannis' battle for the North, the other of which we'll let be a secret, and he gives no resolution for them either.This is a novel that ended 200 hundred pages short. Throughout all of it we are given two "big" stories, the North and the East, and both of them look to lead towards large power altering battles that will rival the Blackwater...only we never get to them. The book stops before BOTH.It is a novel filled with ships sailing, and sailing, and sailing some more. Of marching, and marching, and marching some more. Jon Snow becomes muddled in food stores, concerned with wildlings, with not an Other in sight of the wall. Dany reverts back to trying to save absolutely everyone, doing anything at all to make a false peace, and turns on her own dragons. Cersei has 2 chapters, Jaime 1, and both of them feel like they should have either been included into AFFC or left out till Book 6. Bran and Ayra train, but it has no end in sight.Tyrion....Tyrion learns to cherish his inner dwarf. If all this doesn't sound exciting, don't worry, you will be lucky enough to get to read near 50 pages of food descriptions scattered about the novel. There is also about 100 "You know nothing, Jon Snows", about 50 "Words are Wind" and considerable "I must go forward" and something about Lannister's and debts I didn't know about...I can't say it was all bad. If there wasn't good I wouldn't be so disappointing in where the book ended after all. Reek, Barristan, Asha, and Davos were all fantastic, the single Melisandre chapter shed much light on a certain bastard's destiny, and my main-dragon Drogon was the star of the book.But...I have just finished 1000 pages, it is fresh in my mind, and what drives me to my disappointment is the thought of another 5 years...where I will have my list above, one scratched off, and yet two more added.3.5 but it doesn't deserve the curve.

87 of 93 people found the following review helpful: 2.0 out of 5 stars A long build up to an absent climax, September 6, 2011 By

(REAL NAME) Miss H. Clarke "Literature & Mythopoeic Student" (West Midlands, England) - See all my reviews This review is from: A Dance with Dragons: A Song of Ice and Fire: Book Five (Hardcover) I am, I admit, new to A Song of Ice and Fire. I watched the fantastic series made by HBO and, as soon as the pilot ended, I picked up the books and fell in love. The first three volumes of this series, as any reader will know, are a tour de force of fantasy. A wonderfully realised world populated by fantastic characters that are loved and loathed to a high degree. An entanglement of plots is lightly touched by an unnerving thread of dark magic that lingers in the background to remind us that 'winter is coming'. I read the series, including the slower, less satisfactory 'A Feast for Crows' three times whilst waiting those couple of months for 'Dance'. Then this doorstop was in my hands and I read it eagerly, expecting a return to 'A Storm of Swords' quality.



I, like so many others, was vastly disappointed. This novel sees the return of the 'protagonists' of the epic: Jon Snow (who still knows nothing), Daenerys Targaryen (who has looked back and is now facing the wrong direction) and everyone's favourite sarcastic dwarf Tyrion Lannister. However, these three fan favourites accomplish precisely one act of significance between them, and that is a vastly annoying cliffhanger-a now overused hallmark of Martin's writing.



Jon Snow, stuck on the wall, is struggling to hold several factions together in the face of the approaching war with the Others in the long winter (which is supposedly still on its way, despite no evidence of it in this book). There are interesting parallels with Daenerys, who is trying to rule a city of people and customs that are not her own and who would gladly see her dead. Both of these young leaders struggle in their tasks. Jon grows into his position as a leader with satisfying, if not entirely realistic, maturity. His story arc is arguably the best of the three, but it ends in the most disgusting, hackneyed 'plot twist' I have ever seen. It WILL annoy the seven hells out of you.



Daenerys actually DEVOLVES as a character. The strong-minded young woman from 'A Storm of Swords' has lost her fire and dithers around doing nothing for the entire book. The effect is, of course, to show that the dragon queen has much to learn about ruling (though this does not dent her huge entitlement complex). However, this could have been shown in less than half of her chapters, with the rest devoted to some progression-whether meeting more of the legions of people sailing her way, or getting to Asshai, or reuniting with the Dothraki or...or...SOMETHING. Instead, she remains ineffectual throughout the whole book, proving to be the young (and hormonal) girl that she claims to be, despite previously being a competent leader in control of her own emotions. This 180 degree turn is exceptionally annoying, but this is not the biggest disservice done by Martin to his characters.



Tyrion Lannister, once the favourite of 90% of the fanbase, is reduced to wandering around asking where whores go, turtle-watching and playing chess. He is one of the many characters on his way to meet Daenerys, and this journey takes the entire book. And he still doesn't get there. His chapters, once full of intrigue, character development and humour, are a vapid travelogue-and not even a good one. Whilst he does develop (his interaction with Penny the dwarf is touching and exposes how good he did have it in Casterly Rock), he loses much of his charm and all of his humour. Bitterness is understandable in his position, but something about the way this bitterness is conveyed is unconvincing and unpalatable.



What about everyone else? Arya's scenes are entertaining as always, Bran's are interesting if sparse. Davos' chapters are among the most enjoyable due to his meeting one of the best characters yet introduced-Wyman Manderley (why are Martin's side characters always more interesting than his main ones?), Theon's are haunting and disturbing, and 'disturbing' is cranked up to eleven in this book. If rape, mutilation, bestiality, cannibalism, torture, voyeuristic humiliation, intense diarrhea and even more intense stupidity offends you, give this a miss. New point of view, Ser Barristan Selmy, is fantastic, and the only well-done viewpoint in Essos. Everyone else is largely dull and uninspired, and most people do nothing but travel around. One 'huge' reveal of a character that was supposed to be dead is flat and poorly executed. It produces a 'oh.' rather than a 'WOAH :O'

Which leads me to my actual point:



This is a book with several plot arcs building up to several promising climaxes. None of these climaxes arrive. We miss out on two major battles, we see Brienne (who ended 'Feast' in a cliffhanger) for a couple of pages which answer no questions before she whisks off Jaime Lannister into ANOTHER cliffhanger, several people are STILL travelling to meet Daenerys having accomplished nothing, and several people may or may not be dead. It is as if Martin bought himself two prize racehorses, Cliffhanger and Playing Around With Character Deaths, shot both of them and proceeded to beat them with a typewriter. A long, largely dull mess of travelogues leads to no climax, no katharsis, nothing of anything. It was a vast disappointment with a few high points, and I didn't have to wait for six years for it. I feel sorry for those souls who had a long wait filled with bad PR and timewasting on the part of the author. I fell in and out of love with this series in remarkably quick time, and I will be recommending this book to no one. Is winter coming? It is not known.

Help other customers find the most helpful reviews Was this review helpful to you? Yes No Report abuse | Permalink Comments (4)

I am, I admit, new to A Song of Ice and Fire. I watched the fantastic series made by HBO and, as soon as the pilot ended, I picked up the books and fell in love. The first three volumes of this series, as any reader will know, are a tour de force of fantasy. A wonderfully realised world populated by fantastic characters that are loved and loathed to a high degree. An entanglement of plots is lightly touched by an unnerving thread of dark magic that lingers in the background to remind us that 'winter is coming'. I read the series, including the slower, less satisfactory 'A Feast for Crows' three times whilst waiting those couple of months for 'Dance'. Then this doorstop was in my hands and I read it eagerly, expecting a return to 'A Storm of Swords' quality.I, like so many others, was vastly disappointed. This novel sees the return of the 'protagonists' of the epic: Jon Snow (who still knows nothing), Daenerys Targaryen (who has looked back and is now facing the wrong direction) and everyone's favourite sarcastic dwarf Tyrion Lannister. However, these three fan favourites accomplish precisely one act of significance between them, and that is a vastly annoying cliffhanger-a now overused hallmark of Martin's writing.Jon Snow, stuck on the wall, is struggling to hold several factions together in the face of the approaching war with the Others in the long winter (which is supposedly still on its way, despite no evidence of it in this book). There are interesting parallels with Daenerys, who is trying to rule a city of people and customs that are not her own and who would gladly see her dead. Both of these young leaders struggle in their tasks. Jon grows into his position as a leader with satisfying, if not entirely realistic, maturity. His story arc is arguably the best of the three, but it ends in the most disgusting, hackneyed 'plot twist' I have ever seen. It WILL annoy the seven hells out of you.Daenerys actually DEVOLVES as a character. The strong-minded young woman from 'A Storm of Swords' has lost her fire and dithers around doing nothing for the entire book. The effect is, of course, to show that the dragon queen has much to learn about ruling (though this does not dent her huge entitlement complex). However, this could have been shown in less than half of her chapters, with the rest devoted to some progression-whether meeting more of the legions of people sailing her way, or getting to Asshai, or reuniting with the Dothraki or...or...SOMETHING. Instead, she remains ineffectual throughout the whole book, proving to be the young (and hormonal) girl that she claims to be, despite previously being a competent leader in control of her own emotions. This 180 degree turn is exceptionally annoying, but this is not the biggest disservice done by Martin to his characters.Tyrion Lannister, once the favourite of 90% of the fanbase, is reduced to wandering around asking where whores go, turtle-watching and playing chess. He is one of the many characters on his way to meet Daenerys, and this journey takes the entire book. And he still doesn't get there. His chapters, once full of intrigue, character development and humour, are a vapid travelogue-and not even a good one. Whilst he does develop (his interaction with Penny the dwarf is touching and exposes how good he did have it in Casterly Rock), he loses much of his charm and all of his humour. Bitterness is understandable in his position, but something about the way this bitterness is conveyed is unconvincing and unpalatable.What about everyone else? Arya's scenes are entertaining as always, Bran's are interesting if sparse. Davos' chapters are among the most enjoyable due to his meeting one of the best characters yet introduced-Wyman Manderley (why are Martin's side characters always more interesting than his main ones?), Theon's are haunting and disturbing, and 'disturbing' is cranked up to eleven in this book. If rape, mutilation, bestiality, cannibalism, torture, voyeuristic humiliation, intense diarrhea and even more intense stupidity offends you, give this a miss. New point of view, Ser Barristan Selmy, is fantastic, and the only well-done viewpoint in Essos. Everyone else is largely dull and uninspired, and most people do nothing but travel around. One 'huge' reveal of a character that was supposed to be dead is flat and poorly executed. It produces a 'oh.' rather than a 'WOAH :O'Which leads me to my actual point:This is a book with several plot arcs building up to several promising climaxes. None of these climaxes arrive. We miss out on two major battles, we see Brienne (who ended 'Feast' in a cliffhanger) for a couple of pages which answer no questions before she whisks off Jaime Lannister into ANOTHER cliffhanger, several people are STILL travelling to meet Daenerys having accomplished nothing, and several people may or may not be dead. It is as if Martin bought himself two prize racehorses, Cliffhanger and Playing Around With Character Deaths, shot both of them and proceeded to beat them with a typewriter. A long, largely dull mess of travelogues leads to no climax, no katharsis, nothing of anything. It was a vast disappointment with a few high points, and I didn't have to wait for six years for it. I feel sorry for those souls who had a long wait filled with bad PR and timewasting on the part of the author. I fell in and out of love with this series in remarkably quick time, and I will be recommending this book to no one. Is winter coming? It is not known.

219 of 243 people found the following review helpful: 1.0 out of 5 stars Martin Buys Into His Own Hype and Destroys Series As a Result, August 6, 2011 By Anodyne115 (USA) - See all my reviews Amazon Verified Purchase What's this?) This review is from: A Dance with Dragons: A Song of Ice and Fire: Book Five (Hardcover) Since a Storm of Swords was published, nearly ten years has passed. During that ten year timeframe, Martin's first three books were recognized for what they were - masterpieces of fantasy. Initial readers spread the word to others, and the series gained lots of new readers. A marketing campaign of the best kind ensued, built not from expensive promotion, but by word of mouth from fans. Critics eventually got on board, and Martin was rightfully showered with lots of lavish praise. With regard to the first three books, all of that praise was deserved.



Which leads us to here. It seems that Martin paid careful attention to the "professional critics" and in this book really serves up what they say they like.



Critics said Martin's series was "world building" at its finest. Here, we get LOTS and LOTS and LOTS of "world building." Not in terms of the past history of Westeros, though, but in endless details about food, bowel movements, Wildling penis size, clothing, and on and on. Martin goes overboard with the "world building" to the point where the book just drags for pages while he provides meaningless detail that does nothing to further the story. Since this series has become a huge success, Martin has granted licenses for all kinds of products based on the series. You can get miniature toys, replica swords, calendars, etc. Nothing at all wrong with that. You almost get the impression, though, that Martin uses the content of his book as Art Direction for these products. The detail is simply too much.



Critics also said that Martin's series was "gritty and realistic" and, of course, they were in the sense that every character was written with shades of gray, the good guys didn't get miraculous breaks out of nowhere, etc. Here, "gritty and realistic" means that you actually get to experience every aspect of what a character is going through. You don't just read a couple of pages that generally describe a character's boat ride. Oh, no. Here, you get Chapters of it. And, yes, the writing of such things is "gritty and realistic" in the sense that you yourself are going to feel like you're trapped on a boat going nowhere. Parts of this book read like Frommers' Slow and Painful to Read Travel Guide Through Westeros and Neighboring Environs.



Critics also praised Martin for writing a series that was "fantasy for adults." Martin must have REALLY liked that, because he ups the adult content ante here a lot. First, the overall language used in this book is much more coarse. Not necessarily a bad thing, but to me references to genitalia weren't constantly used in the most vulgar fashion possible in the other books. Here, we get to hear about lots of genitalia. And I think Martin needs to get some kind of award for all the euphemisms he uses for vagina. Hey, George, calling a vagina a vagina is not bad. Calling it the "c" word, or "mound" or any of the other terms he uses really kind of creeped me out. Second, there are some parts of this book that are nothing more than bondage-sadomasochistic porn tales. Now, this series has always had lots of sex and it hasn't always been the romantic type. Jaime and Cersei's incest, for example, was obviously a, let's say "character flaw", but the way Martin presented it was not necessarily off-putting or disgusting. It mostly happened off-scene and it was not like Martin put the reader under the covers with them and let you know about Jaime's sister-humping swordsmanship. Which I, for one, am grateful for. Here, though, Martin puts the reader in the middle of the BDSM. It is more "gritty and realistic" that you want to know about, unless you like that sort of thing. Martin definitely writes this as "fantasy for adults" but not in a good way. In a totally creepy way. You'll need to take a hot shower after a few of these chapters to get the serial killer pedophile feel off you. Again, just way over the top.



Finally, readers and critics alike loved the way that Martin's story was "unpredictable." This referred to the fact that no character was safe, and even noble characters that were at the heart of the story were fair game. Again, Martin goes overboard with that. We get lots of cliffhangers in this one where a character may die, drown, jump to his death, etc. LOTS of them. I'd say that at least 25% of the Chapters end with someone possibly dying. It's just a cheap trick. The beauty and the genius in the Red Wedding was that I don't think anyone can honestly say that they saw that coming. If you re-read the book, though, Martin plotted it out and on a second read, you think "Of course!" While it wasn't expected, the story naturally flowed to the Red Wedding playing out like it did. That is gone in this book. Martin overplays his hand.



Everyone praised Martin's writing skills, and rightly so. Martin crammed a lot of story into his first three books and they were never a chore to read. That's gone with this book. I agree with all those people who complain about the repetition - they are absolutely right, and the repetition detracts from what little story is here. The interior character dialog is way out of hand. When Jon first remembers Ygritte saying "You know nothing, Jon Snow" it is poignant, and reminds us about their relationship. When Jon remembers it again, a couple pages later, it is not so bad. When it happens about fifty times in the book you want to scream. Same thing for Tyrion and his relationship with Shae, Tysha and Lord Tywin. It's just overkill. The raven screaming "CORN CORN CORN" is used in every Chapter involving the Wall, and usually lots of times. The crow is always screaming something. Maybe that is why Jon acts like an indecisive clown in the book. I couldn't make important decisions if that damn crow was screaming at me, either. "Must needs" is suddenly the most common used phrase in Westeros. Things aren't just 15, 22, 30 anymore - now everything is five and ten, two and twenty, etc. LOTS of people "break their fast" and if you're into that, don't worry because Martin is sure to tell you everything the character(s) "break their fast" on.



Next, while there is a little plot progression in this book, nothing really gets resolved. I'm sure Martin will eventually get around to it. So, I look at it as a pleasure deferred to 2017 when the next book may come out. But we've waited so long for this one. I don't think it would be asking too much to give us one story resolution. Just one. But we don't get anything, and it is all more cliffhanger stuff.



In conclusion, this book is bad. I don't mean that it is bad in the sense that it doesn't live up to the first three. I mean it is bad when compared to any other book out there. I would have given it one star, but the book does have some things going for it. Bran's storyline actually advances quite a bit. I'm not sure I understand what is happening to him, but he is one character that actually does get somewhere and something does happen to him. Arya makes slight progress in her education, but it is not that enthralling and I think we all pretty much expected her to be where she ended up at the conclusion of this book. Just a lousy book. Here's hoping Martin stops catering to the critics, stops using his book to give instructions to the manufacturers of his toys, stops trying to trick the reader with cheap ploys, and gets back to the form that led to his success in the first place. Help other customers find the most helpful reviews Was this review helpful to you? Yes No Report abuse | Permalink Comments (59)

Since a Storm of Swords was published, nearly ten years has passed. During that ten year timeframe, Martin's first three books were recognized for what they were - masterpieces of fantasy. Initial readers spread the word to others, and the series gained lots of new readers. A marketing campaign of the best kind ensued, built not from expensive promotion, but by word of mouth from fans. Critics eventually got on board, and Martin was rightfully showered with lots of lavish praise. With regard to the first three books, all of that praise was deserved.Which leads us to here. It seems that Martin paid careful attention to the "professional critics" and in this book really serves up what they say they like.Critics said Martin's series was "world building" at its finest. Here, we get LOTS and LOTS and LOTS of "world building." Not in terms of the past history of Westeros, though, but in endless details about food, bowel movements, Wildling penis size, clothing, and on and on. Martin goes overboard with the "world building" to the point where the book just drags for pages while he provides meaningless detail that does nothing to further the story. Since this series has become a huge success, Martin has granted licenses for all kinds of products based on the series. You can get miniature toys, replica swords, calendars, etc. Nothing at all wrong with that. You almost get the impression, though, that Martin uses the content of his book as Art Direction for these products. The detail is simply too much.Critics also said that Martin's series was "gritty and realistic" and, of course, they were in the sense that every character was written with shades of gray, the good guys didn't get miraculous breaks out of nowhere, etc. Here, "gritty and realistic" means that you actually get to experience every aspect of what a character is going through. You don't just read a couple of pages that generally describe a character's boat ride. Oh, no. Here, you get Chapters of it. And, yes, the writing of such things is "gritty and realistic" in the sense that you yourself are going to feel like you're trapped on a boat going nowhere. Parts of this book read like Frommers' Slow and Painful to Read Travel Guide Through Westeros and Neighboring Environs.Critics also praised Martin for writing a series that was "fantasy for adults." Martin must have REALLY liked that, because he ups the adult content ante here a lot. First, the overall language used in this book is much more coarse. Not necessarily a bad thing, but to me references to genitalia weren't constantly used in the most vulgar fashion possible in the other books. Here, we get to hear about lots of genitalia. And I think Martin needs to get some kind of award for all the euphemisms he uses for vagina. Hey, George, calling a vagina a vagina is not bad. Calling it the "c" word, or "mound" or any of the other terms he uses really kind of creeped me out. Second, there are some parts of this book that are nothing more than bondage-sadomasochistic porn tales. Now, this series has always had lots of sex and it hasn't always been the romantic type. Jaime and Cersei's incest, for example, was obviously a, let's say "character flaw", but the way Martin presented it was not necessarily off-putting or disgusting. It mostly happened off-scene and it was not like Martin put the reader under the covers with them and let you know about Jaime's sister-humping swordsmanship. Which I, for one, am grateful for. Here, though, Martin puts the reader in the middle of the BDSM. It is more "gritty and realistic" that you want to know about, unless you like that sort of thing. Martin definitely writes this as "fantasy for adults" but not in a good way. In a totally creepy way. You'll need to take a hot shower after a few of these chapters to get the serial killer pedophile feel off you. Again, just way over the top.Finally, readers and critics alike loved the way that Martin's story was "unpredictable." This referred to the fact that no character was safe, and even noble characters that were at the heart of the story were fair game. Again, Martin goes overboard with that. We get lots of cliffhangers in this one where a character may die, drown, jump to his death, etc. LOTS of them. I'd say that at least 25% of the Chapters end with someone possibly dying. It's just a cheap trick. The beauty and the genius in the Red Wedding was that I don't think anyone can honestly say that they saw that coming. If you re-read the book, though, Martin plotted it out and on a second read, you think "Of course!" While it wasn't expected, the story naturally flowed to the Red Wedding playing out like it did. That is gone in this book. Martin overplays his hand.Everyone praised Martin's writing skills, and rightly so. Martin crammed a lot of story into his first three books and they were never a chore to read. That's gone with this book. I agree with all those people who complain about the repetition - they are absolutely right, and the repetition detracts from what little story is here. The interior character dialog is way out of hand. When Jon first remembers Ygritte saying "You know nothing, Jon Snow" it is poignant, and reminds us about their relationship. When Jon remembers it again, a couple pages later, it is not so bad. When it happens about fifty times in the book you want to scream. Same thing for Tyrion and his relationship with Shae, Tysha and Lord Tywin. It's just overkill. The raven screaming "CORN CORN CORN" is used in every Chapter involving the Wall, and usually lots of times. The crow is always screaming something. Maybe that is why Jon acts like an indecisive clown in the book. I couldn't make important decisions if that damn crow was screaming at me, either. "Must needs" is suddenly the most common used phrase in Westeros. Things aren't just 15, 22, 30 anymore - now everything is five and ten, two and twenty, etc. LOTS of people "break their fast" and if you're into that, don't worry because Martin is sure to tell you everything the character(s) "break their fast" on.Next, while there is a little plot progression in this book, nothing really gets resolved. I'm sure Martin will eventually get around to it. So, I look at it as a pleasure deferred to 2017 when the next book may come out. But we've waited so long for this one. I don't think it would be asking too much to give us one story resolution. Just one. But we don't get anything, and it is all more cliffhanger stuff.In conclusion, this book is bad. I don't mean that it is bad in the sense that it doesn't live up to the first three. I mean it is bad when compared to any other book out there. I would have given it one star, but the book does have some things going for it. Bran's storyline actually advances quite a bit. I'm not sure I understand what is happening to him, but he is one character that actually does get somewhere and something does happen to him. Arya makes slight progress in her education, but it is not that enthralling and I think we all pretty much expected her to be where she ended up at the conclusion of this book. Just a lousy book. Here's hoping Martin stops catering to the critics, stops using his book to give instructions to the manufacturers of his toys, stops trying to trick the reader with cheap ploys, and gets back to the form that led to his success in the first place.

455 of 511 people found the following review helpful: 3.0 out of 5 stars More menu than Dance, July 14, 2011 By

(REAL NAME) Jonathan C. Moore "Pugilist" (Philly area, PA) - See all my reviews Amazon Verified Purchase What's this?) This review is from: A Dance with Dragons (Hardcover)



I might read Winds of Winter if it comes out and if I have not decided to read something else at the time. I enjoyed a Game a Thrones and a Clash of Kings and a Storm of Swords. I slogged through Feast but could not re-read it. I struggled through Dance and will not waste time re-reading it. I could give a synopsis of this 959 page book in less than 5000 words and none of them would be used describing the menu or the wine or the beer.



This series suffers from the lack of a decent editor who would look at the pages and cut them by 75% and tell Martin to tighten things up, to get to the story, to dispense with tricks and cliff hangers and, again, get to the story.



Feast showed us the story had gotten away from Martin. Dance shows us he is still not sure what to do, where to go, how to proceed. Both Feast and Dance could have been combined, as was originally planned, into one book and that book could have been less than 500 pages and we would have cried out for more rather than plodding through a tired replay of feasts and argument and schemes we've seen many too many times before.



A good editor would have kept Martin focused on the story but editors lose the spine when an author becomes popular and they let any old POS get published as long as there is a ready audience to snap it up and cry for more.



I came to the series late. I got Game and Clash for $4 as single book. I bought Storm for $6ish, I believe I paid $12ish for Feast and I pro-ordered Dance for around $15. My initial $10 investment was sound. My later $27 was not.



Others have said, nothing happens in this book. I disagree. We get about 100 pages of story. The problem is that there are 959 pages in the book and teasing the story from these pages is tiresome work.



Help other customers find the most helpful reviews Was this review helpful to you? Yes No Report abuse | Permalink Comments (22)

I read a lot. I read a lot of fiction, non fiction, classics, literature, manuals, blah, blah, blah. I own thousands of books. when i was younger I would read a book through no matter how bad, as I have gotten older and had more demands on my time, I've realised the folly in this so gladly toss aside a book that is worthless and shun authors who have disappointed me too often.I might read Winds of Winter if it comes out and if I have not decided to read something else at the time. I enjoyed a Game a Thrones and a Clash of Kings and a Storm of Swords. I slogged through Feast but could not re-read it. I struggled through Dance and will not waste time re-reading it. I could give a synopsis of this 959 page book in less than 5000 words and none of them would be used describing the menu or the wine or the beer.This series suffers from the lack of a decent editor who would look at the pages and cut them by 75% and tell Martin to tighten things up, to get to the story, to dispense with tricks and cliff hangers and, again, get to the story.Feast showed us the story had gotten away from Martin. Dance shows us he is still not sure what to do, where to go, how to proceed. Both Feast and Dance could have been combined, as was originally planned, into one book and that book could have been less than 500 pages and we would have cried out for more rather than plodding through a tired replay of feasts and argument and schemes we've seen many too many times before.A good editor would have kept Martin focused on the story but editors lose the spine when an author becomes popular and they let any old POS get published as long as there is a ready audience to snap it up and cry for more.I came to the series late. I got Game and Clash for $4 as single book. I bought Storm for $6ish, I believe I paid $12ish for Feast and I pro-ordered Dance for around $15. My initial $10 investment was sound. My later $27 was not.Others have said, nothing happens in this book. I disagree. We get about 100 pages of story. The problem is that there are 959 pages in the book and teasing the story from these pages is tiresome work.