CB: I really have no idea. Donald Trump has been president a full year. I’m not sure how healthy it is to continue to ask what-ifs.

JI: Are Democrats getting their message out?

CB: There are individuals who are giving the right message. Like Danica Roem in Virginia—this trans woman who made her campaign [for the state legislature] not about being the first trans person elected in the state to that kind of office but about traffic! So as much as people might want to frame this as “counter-Trump”—and I’m saying this to Democrats who will listen to me—we can’t make our elections about being against Trump. They have to be about what we’re for.

JI: You’re about to go on the Senate floor and talk again about marijuana legalization. Why is that an issue that affects the everyday person? And do you even smoke weed? I know you don’t drink.

CB: Don’t drink—really never have. Don’t smoke. My addiction is empty carbohydrates, which I’m trying to stop.

Look, the War on Drugs has been our country’s self-inflicted wound. It’s affected this country in ways that are far more profound than the average person understands. Between the time I was in law school and the time I was mayor of Newark, [the country was] building a new prison every 10 days. That’s a gross waste of resources. We are perhaps leading the planet in incarceration; we are torturing people through things like juvenile solitary confinement.

You and I went to universities where you never saw police doing raids for pot. You have dozens and dozens of members [of Congress] who will talk about smoking marijuana—three out of the last four presidents admit to having done it. There’s no difference for blacks and whites in using drugs, using marijuana, but blacks are almost four times more likely to be arrested for marijuana possession. This is unjust enforcement.

JI: You testified against Attorney General Jeff Sessions during his confirmation hearing, which was an unprecedented step. When people like Sessions talk about law and order, are they just talking about law and order for black people?

CB: This administration has shown a lack of respect for law and order. They’ve lied or misled under oath. “Law and order” seems to be more about rhetoric—a tired trope that I see as an attack on poor people, on communities of color. For many of us, when we hear Jeff Sessions stand up and talk about law and order, we hear it as “We are going to target the vulnerable in this country, we are going to target the poor, we are going to target minorities.” I knew this about Jeff Sessions! I served in the Senate with him. I knew what he said about marijuana, I knew what he said about gays and lesbians, I knew what he said about women and their physical safety, and I knew that he was an existential threat to communities across this country. That’s why I went so far against him.