You have to provide some kind of evidence/proof (screenshots/replays etc.) if you are going to accuse somebody.



Additionally, a supporting comment of what people should be looking for and when will be necessary if you are posting replays/evidence.

TelecoM Profile Blog Joined January 2010 United States 10250 Posts Last Edited: 2015-04-12 07:04:11 #9281 On April 12 2015 12:11 WinterStarcraft wrote:

Show nested quote +

On April 12 2015 12:09 avilo wrote:

On April 12 2015 12:06 WinterStarcraft wrote:

On April 12 2015 12:00 richlol wrote:

On April 12 2015 11:56 WinterStarcraft wrote:

On April 12 2015 11:55 avilo wrote:

On April 12 2015 11:49 WinterStarcraft wrote:

On April 12 2015 11:33 avilo wrote:

On April 12 2015 10:08 WinterStarcraft wrote:

lol. here are my last 250 replays to confirm my hacking



EDIT: here are my LOTV games, accidentally linked only my HOTS GM account first lol. here are my last 250 replays to confirm my hacking http://sc2replaystats.com/account/replays/4312/0/959221/1v1/AutoMM/21/0 (from the last few weeks)EDIT: here are my LOTV games, accidentally linked only my HOTS GM account first http://sc2replaystats.com/account/replays/4312/0/1156135/1v1/AutoMM/21/0 (includes 2-0 vs avilo)



Releasing 200 replays of the past has nothing to do with the fact it appears you are hacking in the game i posted.

Can you explain what is this mysterious system you have to follow invisible units through the fog of war, and insta rallying to gas geysers on observer unit pathing?



Can you explain following a probe through the fog of war and clicking towards it and changing your unit pathing to get the probe? It's all just going to be luck right?



Hind sight 20/20 i should have posted this under a new account perhaps? Because people here are bashing me or saying things that have nothing to do with all of the evidence i have provided. Releasing 200 replays of the past has nothing to do with the fact it appears you are hacking in the game i posted.Can you explain what is this mysterious system you have to follow invisible units through the fog of war, and insta rallying to gas geysers on observer unit pathing?Can you explain following a probe through the fog of war and clicking towards it and changing your unit pathing to get the probe? It's all just going to be luck right?Hind sight 20/20 i should have posted this under a new account perhaps? Because people here are bashing me or saying things that have nothing to do with all of the evidence i have provided.



Because TL is the only place to even pretend to have a legitimate discussion in sc2 I will give you a legitimate response. All of the evidence you have suggested is hacks is called "using active units". When you have an active unit like phoenixes you keep them on the map in the most valid locations. Several times you defend/overcharge your natural which forces my phoenixes to find another location to attack, which is obviously the main via the third. You send your probe out directly after overcharging SEVERAL times, to exactly where the logical place for me to move my phoenixes is. Most of those times the probe only enters my vision AFTER I have already sent a command into the main and I pick it up incidentally. Most of the game I did not even realize you had observers, or I would obviously have killed/avoided them. All luck.



EDIT: I would argue al;most 500 replays and over 100 hours of games would have more validity than 12 minutes of an offrace PvP.

Because TL is the only place to even pretend to have a legitimate discussion in sc2 I will give you a legitimate response. All of the evidence you have suggested is hacks is called "using active units". When you have an active unit like phoenixes you keep them on the map in the most valid locations. Several times you defend/overcharge your natural which forces my phoenixes to find another location to attack, which is obviously the main via the third. You send your probe out directly after overcharging SEVERAL times, to exactly where the logical place for me to move my phoenixes is. Most of those times the probe only enters my vision AFTER I have already sent a command into the main and I pick it up incidentally. Most of the game I did not even realize you had observers, or I would obviously have killed/avoided them. All luck.EDIT: I would argue al;most 500 replays and over 100 hours of games would have more validity than 12 minutes of an offrace PvP.



The evidence i have provided shows more than "using active units." It shows that you have knowledge of things in the fog of war that you should have zero knowledge of.



You even self admittedly just said you do not even realize observers are on the map, yet your units are always perfectly pathed to them and their destination points, in the most blatant case at 11:29 with pin-point accuracy while your map is not even on the same screen as the command is given. You jump to the observer immediately after as if you know it's there...and then your screen stops when you seem to realize it's an invisible unit on your mini-map, not something that could be attacked.



The same thing happens multiple times in the game, with the same set of commands being issued. The evidence i have provided shows more than "using active units." It shows that you have knowledge of things in the fog of war that you should have zero knowledge of.You even self admittedly just said you do not even realize observers are on the map, yet your units are always perfectly pathed to them and their destination points, in the most blatant case at 11:29 with pin-point accuracy while your map is not even on the same screen as the command is given. You jump to the observer immediately after as if you know it's there...and then your screen stops when you seem to realize it's an invisible unit on your mini-map, not something that could be attacked.The same thing happens multiple times in the game, with the same set of commands being issued.



My patience lasted one post. I look forward to any player of professional experience agreeing with you on the convincing nature of these offences. My patience lasted one post. I look forward to any player of professional experience agreeing with you on the convincing nature of these offences.



You, more than anyone here, have the power to "shut Avilo up", if you will, by streaming behind-the-shoulder games at a high level. But like I mentioned earlier, that's completely at your discretion. It's just the best advice I could give to anyone who's accused of hacking (you especially, because of your reputation). You, more than anyone here, have the power to "shut Avilo up", if you will, by streaming behind-the-shoulder games at a high level. But like I mentioned earlier, that's completely at your discretion. It's just the best advice I could give to anyone who's accused of hacking (you especially, because of your reputation).



The more you acknowledge him the worse he will get (and others like him). I do my best to stay away from the drama but recently of course it becomes more and more impossible as there are many who literally create or convince themselves of things that are overwhelmingly fake, but go along with the others who are convinced they're true because it is easier.



I am obviously not hacking, nor would I need to to beat Avilo (especially in PvP, I already beat him in ZvT in LOTV as well which makes me surprised a PvP game was chosen as "evidence"). I'm not going to call for mods to delete these posts but I would like to hear the objective analysis of any professional player. Also objectively, if we are using the arguement "Avilo called Polt and Parting a hacker but this time we have to take what he says seriously" then it is hypocritical to use the arguement "Well Winter is a proven viewbotter (despite being cleared by Twitch and Blizzard) so he's probably hacking too." The more you acknowledge him the worse he will get (and others like him). I do my best to stay away from the drama but recently of course it becomes more and more impossible as there are many who literally create or convince themselves of things that are overwhelmingly fake, but go along with the others who are convinced they're true because it is easier.I am obviously not hacking, nor would I need to to beat Avilo (especially in PvP, I already beat him in ZvT in LOTV as well which makes me surprised a PvP game was chosen as "evidence"). I'm not going to call for mods to delete these posts but I would like to hear the objective analysis of any professional player. Also objectively, if we are using the arguement "Avilo called Polt and Parting a hacker but this time we have to take what he says seriously" then it is hypocritical to use the arguement "Well Winter is a proven viewbotter (despite being cleared by Twitch and Blizzard) so he's probably hacking too."



Sorry, but once again, those arguments have nothing to do with the evidence provided. Are you going to address the points i made in my last post? Sorry, but once again, those arguments have nothing to do with the evidence provided. Are you going to address the points i made in my last post?



You have less points than a basketball. You have less points than a basketball.



Your statements have less relevance than a George Bush speech. You are a disgrace to all streamers / gamers who believe in legitimacy.



EDIT : I cannot believe I am reading you talking about qualifying for WCS lol....Winter really? Get over yourself, You aren't even legit in the slightest, Can't wait till we play again. Your statements have less relevance than a George Bush speech. You are a disgrace to all streamers / gamers who believe in legitimacy.EDIT : I cannot believe I am reading you talking about qualifying for WCS lol....Winter really? Get over yourself, You aren't even legit in the slightest, Can't wait till we play again. AKA: TelecoM[WHITE] Protoss fighting

avilo Profile Blog Joined November 2007 United States 4099 Posts Last Edited: 2015-04-12 08:34:56 #9282

huk vs winter (ty huk for sending the replay)



This game was played on the same day, April 10th, 2015, hours prior to the game i had played versus winter



Replay Analysis + Time stamps:



6:04

way point command given to marine towards expansion near huk's base, destination point along x-axis of observer's current location



6:04

winter takes manual control right after



6:06

Marine being waypointed through an observer on the map, this is one of the few times i've seen move command waypoint into attack move...maybe he spotted observer dot on mini-map? thought was probe? is he just going to scout the third?



6:07

winter takes manual control of his marine and starts clicking to where observer was...then realizes he cannot attack it and once again...re-sends marine to the third location now



Why the first waypoint, then manual marine control...then the move command waypointed into an attack move command along the observer...then clicking towards where the observer would have been on the mini-map...realizing it was cloaked... then sending marine to scout third again...



My Thoughts:

His marine was purposely attack moved through what he thought was an attackable unit via mini-map, and then he manually selected his marine to find the unit and realized it had been an unattackable unit, and then he settles to re-send the marine to huk's other third.



*Note*

Winter's never sees cloaked observer blip on camera with his marine



6:24

Winter's Command Centers both rally to Observer leaving huk's natural. This is most likely a legitimate mistake/misclick?



Rally is along pathing of obs, Happens again later at winter's natural when the second observer gets closer...still could be legitimate mistake, interesting that it happens twice with observers nearby though



6:28

Moving marine/marauder to observer he doesn't know is there in the fog of war, starts clicking to it



9:13

winter's screen jumps to near the stasis ward again...not his units at first as he breaks down rocks



10:21

medivac using that suspicious waypoint thing again...warp prism is in vision...why is this med doing this, then winter immediately takes manual control



10:56

Medivac pathed on exact pathing of hallucinated phoenix Luck? He wanted to go harrass with it, this one luck/circumstantial.



11:17

Winter clicks directly on the stasis ward, and is looking at it in the fog of war



11:22

winter takes command of his army that he previously commanded directly to the stasis ward and instead re-adjusts

his units so that they stop before they get to the stasis ward



If you remember, earlier on in the game at 6:06 winter had done this same thing with his marine versus an observer that he did not know existed



11:23

winter now again moves his camera back where the stasis ward is and selects his command centers to scan it but does not have enough CC energy



11:18-11:20

winter is looking into the fog of war and following huk's phoenixes



11:30

winter tries to path around stasis ward momentarily then decides to just run in regardless



Strongest Evidence:

The three very blatant instances in the same game of winter following/locating cloaked units through the fog of war at:



6:04-6:07 - marine going for cloaked observer

6:28 - winter starts clicking to observer that's in fog of war

11:17- 11:30 - winter seems to know the exact location of

a stasis ward, clicks his units to it, later orders them to

stop just before the stasis ward, then again later momentarily

attempts to path around the stasis ward



Cross referencing his VOD with the above replay analysis:

http://www.twitch.tv/wintergaming/v/4011909?t=29m45s



VOD Time: 24:32 Game Time: 6:03

Looks off to the left towards what i would assume is observer blip on mini-map



VOD Time 24:34 Game Time 6:05

Takes manual control and looks off again to the left, presumably now searching for unit on mini-map (which is a cloaked observer).



VOD Time 24:37 Game Time 6:07

Takes manual control again of marine this time clicking towards observer as he moves the marine to it he looks off to the left again, then realizes it's a cloaked unit and decides to send marine to scout other third



VOD Time: 24:53 Game Time 6:24

Glances left again, selects units to go kill observer he has no idea exists



VOD Time: 24:57 Game Time 6:28

Begins to click his units to the observer that he cannot see in the fog of war



Now Very Important:

VOD Time: 25:00 Game time 6:31

Does the glance left again, and immediately moves his screen to the observer to kill it



VOD Time: 25:15 Game Time 6:46

As Winter's Army in the center of the map gets closer to huk's phoenixes winter glances to the left



VOD Time: 29:45 Game Time 11:17

This is the stasis ward that winter directly clicks on while looking through the fog of war, once again, eyes to the left



VOD Time: 29:50 Game Time 11:22

Again, eyes to left, screen on stasis ward, he adjusts units to not walkover the stasis ward that he had previously directly clicked onto the stasis ward



VOD Time: 29:51 Game Time 11:23

After the two previous times of looking directly at the stasis ward, the first time sending units to it, second time making sure his units did not walk over it, this third time winter wants to kill the stasis ward and selects both of his command centers to scan it but has no energy.



Once again, eyes to left, and instant head snap back to his other screen



At this point, after having previously analyzed the VOD corresponding to my replay, and analyzing huk's as well...it feels to me he is not reading chat when he does this. Throughout the course of my analysis, it's noticeable that when enemy units are in vision and on-screen, winter rarely glances to his left, but almost every time he loses complete vision of enemy units, he will again start glancing left to check their location on the mini-map presumably



VOD Time 29:56 Game Time 11:28

Winter is actually following Huk's Phoenixes through the fog of war and commands his units over them, almost as if he is trying to right click them.



If it is not enough that winter can chase visible units through the fog of war, he is able to with great precision locate cloaked units through the fog of war in two different games. Replay: http://drop.sc/396244 huk vs winter (ty huk for sending the replay)This game was played on the same day, April 10th, 2015, hours prior to the game i had played versus winterReplay Analysis + Time stamps:6:04way point command given to marine towards expansion near huk's base, destination point along x-axis of observer's current location6:04winter takes manual control right after6:06Marine being waypointed through an observer on the map, this is one of the few times i've seen move command waypoint into attack move...maybe he spotted observer dot on mini-map? thought was probe? is he just going to scout the third?6:07winter takes manual control of his marine and starts clicking to where observer was...then realizes he cannot attack it and once again...re-sends marine to the third location nowWhy the first waypoint, then manual marine control...then the move command waypointed into an attack move command along the observer...then clicking towards where the observer would have been on the mini-map...realizing it was cloaked... then sending marine to scout third again...My Thoughts:His marine was purposely attack moved through what he thought was an attackable unit via mini-map, and then he manually selected his marine to find the unit and realized it had been an unattackable unit, and then he settles to re-send the marine to huk's other third.*Note*Winter's never sees cloaked observer blip on camera with his marine6:24Winter's Command Centers both rally to Observer leaving huk's natural. This is most likely a legitimate mistake/misclick?Rally is along pathing of obs, Happens again later at winter's natural when the second observer gets closer...still could be legitimate mistake, interesting that it happens twice with observers nearby though6:28Moving marine/marauder to observer he doesn't know is there in the fog of war, starts clicking to it9:13winter's screen jumps to near the stasis ward again...not his units at first as he breaks down rocks10:21medivac using that suspicious waypoint thing again...warp prism is in vision...why is this med doing this, then winter immediately takes manual control10:56Medivac pathed on exact pathing of hallucinated phoenix Luck? He wanted to go harrass with it, this one luck/circumstantial.11:17Winter clicks directly on the stasis ward, and is looking at it in the fog of war11:22winter takes command of his army that he previously commanded directly to the stasis ward and instead re-adjustshis units so that they stop before they get to the stasis wardIf you remember, earlier on in the game at 6:06 winter had done this same thing with his marine versus an observer that he did not know existed11:23winter now again moves his camera back where the stasis ward is and selects his command centers to scan it but does not have enough CC energy11:18-11:20winter is looking into the fog of war and following huk's phoenixes11:30winter tries to path around stasis ward momentarily then decides to just run in regardlessCross referencing his VOD with the above replay analysis:VOD Time: 24:32 Game Time: 6:03Looks off to the left towards what i would assume is observer blip on mini-mapVOD Time 24:34 Game Time 6:05Takes manual control and looks off again to the left, presumably now searching for unit on mini-map (which is a cloaked observer).VOD Time 24:37 Game Time 6:07Takes manual control again of marine this time clicking towards observer as he moves the marine to it he looks off to the left again, then realizes it's a cloaked unit and decides to send marine to scout other thirdVOD Time: 24:53 Game Time 6:24Glances left again, selects units to go kill observer he has no idea existsVOD Time: 24:57 Game Time 6:28Begins to click his units to the observer that he cannot see in the fog of warNow Very Important:VOD Time: 25:00 Game time 6:31Does the glance left again, andmoves his screen to the observer to kill itVOD Time: 25:15 Game Time 6:46As Winter's Army in the center of the map gets closer to huk's phoenixes winter glances to the leftVOD Time: 29:45 Game Time 11:17This is the stasis ward that winter directly clicks on while looking through the fog of war, once again, eyes to the leftVOD Time: 29:50 Game Time 11:22Again, eyes to left, screen on stasis ward, he adjusts units to not walkover the stasis ward that he had previously directly clicked onto the stasis wardVOD Time: 29:51 Game Time 11:23After the two previous times of looking directly at the stasis ward, the first time sending units to it, second time making sure his units did not walk over it, this third time winter wants to kill the stasis ward and selects both of his command centers to scan it but has no energy.Once again, eyes to left, and instant head snap back to his other screenAt this point, after having previously analyzed the VOD corresponding to my replay, and analyzing huk's as well...it feels to me he is not reading chat when he does this. Throughout the course of my analysis, it's noticeable that when enemy units are in vision and on-screen, winter rarely glances to his left, but almost every time he loses complete vision of enemy units, he will again start glancing left to check their location on the mini-map presumablyVOD Time 29:56 Game Time 11:28Winter is actually following Huk's Phoenixes through the fog of war and commands his units over them, almost as if he is trying to right click them.If it is not enough that winter can chase visible units through the fog of war, he is able to with great precision locateunits through the fog of war in two different games. Sup

zer0slayer Profile Joined April 2015 5 Posts #9283 On April 12 2015 17:33 avilo wrote:

Replay:

huk vs winter (ty huk for sending the replay)



[...] Replay: http://drop.sc/396244 huk vs winter (ty huk for sending the replay)[...]



Proof of huk sending you the replay?





Proof of huk sending you the replay?

looknohands119 Profile Joined March 2010 United States 814 Posts #9284 On April 12 2015 10:31 Chill wrote:

Avilo, see you again in a few months when your analysis is ready. Enjoy~



I love you Chill! <3 I love you Chill! <3 "The kingdom of the heavens is buried treasure. Would you sell yourself to buy the one you've found?" - Jon Foreman ('Your Love Is Strong' - Spring EP)

UncoolName Profile Joined April 2015 1 Post #9285 On April 12 2015 04:57 avilo wrote:

Hacker name: WinterSC

Server: NA

League: N/A

Description: Throughout the course of this replay, perfect phoenix harrass early on, always avoids units. I will list all of the time stamps, as well as corresponding time stamps to his VOD that show suspicious action.



There are also suspicious waypoint rallies consistently in this game that consistently match-up with opponent unit pathing through the fog of war. In other words, WinterSC units will suddenly all be waypointed to a single point and then a second point past that point that correspond with either my destination point of my units, and with cloaked units through the fog of war.



The most damning evidence i found starts at the 11:10-11-35 marks in the replay where if you watch closely going on very slow you will note Winter never moves his screen to the right most observer. The observer also never comes into vision range on top of that. Yet at the 11:28-11:29 mark you will see the strange way point command with the secondary destination point that is instantly put on top of my observer from the mini-map while Winter's screen is near his natural base, not to mention you cannot see cloaked units on the mini-map.



The same thing happens multiple times in the game, earlier on in the game phoenix use this waypoint command and are set on the pathing of an observer, then it is done at my third base again set to pathing on a probe through the fog of war, then with the two observers starting at 11:14-11:16 high templar are warped in at my natural on the pathing of my left most observer to where my obs destination point is, and then again with a hallucinated phoenix that has the same waypointed command set on a path with the left most observer, and of course the observer on the right side of the map is the most blatant.



My own analysis is here on my VOD:

Starting time of Analysis: 13:20

End Time of Analysis: 2:15:54



Replay:

VOD Of Opponent During the Game:

Starting Time of the Game Played: 4:01:40



Here are time stamps of my initial replay analysis with thoughts (i also go over all of these in my VOD):



6:00

goes for gas probes, then clicks through fog of war instead to probe he cannot see, then suddenly changes his mind and goes back to the gas probes (phoenix clicked exactly to the probe)



6:04

clicks almost directly on/near the MSC. Not unusual that MSC is between bases, but he goes straight to it



7:30

the 100% evidence: phoenixes selected by winter to kill probe leaving enemy natural, then...



7:35

his screen locks in place as he perfectly adjusts phoenix pathing towards the probe. Note he does not click

to go scout the third from the start...he is following the probe through the fog of war. This is not a "random" catch that normally would happen like when a player would send their phoenix to the third to scout it



9:23

All game long winter is willing to blindly send his phoenix in...suddenly when another probe is en route to third his phoenix this time are purposely rallied solely to the third to kill the probe again



9:33

he has no idea where my phoenix were last at, main? natural? The moment i select my phoenix at 9:33, he selects his and moves his away as if he knows mine are on the way and then suddenly decides it's now safe to hit the natural?



10:35

no vision of the entire map, no timing on anythingas my units get closer to his natural be begins to select his stalkers repeatedly



10:36

starts to move his stalkers towards the direction i click my phoenix? similar command is queued up here to the one previously at 9:23 where he had queued phoenix movement in anticipation of a probe...same command done here and cancelled in same fashion



10:39

screen lock again...? He was microing without even looking at this units? What?



11:16

winter's templar are warping and and all of the for some reason are waypointed to his natural...

Check my observer in the center of the map and where it is headed to...



The templar are all rallied to the point near where my

observer end path point is.



11:23

Screen locks at his natural as he then suddenly selects all stalkers and right clicks towards the observer which of course not only can he not detect, it is not even in range of his nexus or units in the fog of war.



11:24

the only scout/hallucinated phoenix makes the entire game is perfectly timed/pathed to cross paths with the

observer coming down the center of the map.



Phoenix is also way pointed to what looks random at firstbut was a previous location near the observer's pathing



There is no reason to waypoint the phoenix in this nature ever which means it is automated with the hack winter is using



Whatever hack this may be can possibly re-orient and set units on a path that will be to the intended destination

of an opponent's unit?



11:28-11:29

The third time this strange command has been issued this game with his units. Keep in mind since 11:23 winter has not

ever visually seen on his screen the observer blip.



His screen is at his natural and he warps in a stalker. He then immediately has all of his stalkers selected and they all are instantly commanded to the exact pinpoint location of where the observer is on the mini-map, which of course is impossible because Winter never ever had his camera anywhere near the observer in the first place to have seen it



Bonus Round:

Winter's VOD:

http://www.twitch.tv/wintergaming/v/4011909



Starting from 4:06:41:

Every time he selects phoenixes to move them his eyes change

direction looking at map for where my units are or are not



Notice when he goes back to base to macro normally his focus

is entirely on buildings, looks at main monitor...



Then every time he goes to harrass he is looking at an

entirely different monitor? ????



4:06:51

Winter Selects phoenixes, eyes immediately shift to looking

at mini map



4:07:11

Attention focuses momentarily to macro face forward as normal



4:07:12

Head suddenly shifts again to look at other monitor? map?

Checking for position of my units, another successful harrass



4:07:17

Focused back on main monitor, goes to macro



4:07:20

Attention back on phoenixes



4:07:32

Back to macroing...



4:07:33

Head turns immediately now to check mini-map/2nd monitor for

position of my units



4:07:39

This will no repeatedly happen any time he goes to harrass

and selects his phoenixes, he will look off to the left

(from his perspective).



4:07:36

Looks off to the left again checking mini-map/monitor/hack

for position of my units to see if safe to phoenix harrass



Once again, perfectly avoids all units



4:08:07

Selects phoenixes starts clicking around, then eyes again

go to his left to check mini-map/hack/monitor



Once again, perfectly avoid all units that had sent back

to the natural.



4:08:35

Again, eyes to the left after selecting phoenixes



4:08:33

Looks like he looks off at the probe?



4:08:38

Phoenixes selected again, eyes shift way left again looking

off to check where my units are again.



Third time, 100% avoids all my units. Choosing correct base

for PHoenix to harrass



4:09:02

He is bouncing phoenix between base, but checks his

mini-map/hack/monitor just to make sure it's safe.



Once again perfectly avoids army.



4:09:14

He immediately looks off to the left again, has his phoenix

selected while screen is between his main and natural





----------------------------------------------------

***************

VOD Time: 4:09:17 Game Time: 7:30

This was the first very blatant moment i found from the

replay analysis of him following a unit through the fog of

war.

***************

Watching the VOD after confirms that he immediately selects

his phoenixes and his eyes veer off as has occurred every

single time he does a 100% successful phoenix harrass.



VOD Time: 4:09:20 Game Time: 7:33

All phoenixes selected, begins to look off to the left again



VOD Time: 4:09:23 Game Time: 7:36

As he follows my probe through the fog of war he begins

looking more to the left again



*******************************************************

VOD Time: 4:09:35 Game Time 7:48

For the first time while harrassing with phoenixes, he does

not look off to the left at his second monitor/hack and he

runs into my phoenixes/stalkers this time.



This is the one time during the VOD he does not turn his eyes left and it is the only time he predicts wrong on where my units are.

*****************************************************



VOD Time: 4:09:47 Game Time: 8:00

Phoenixes selected, ready to harrass...



VOD Time: 4:09:50 Game Time: 8:03

He again looks to his mini-map/monitor/hack to check for

where my units are or are not



VOD Time: 4:10:44 Game Time: 8:57

Phoenixes selected, he looks off to left at mini-map/hack

monitor to see where is safe to harrass



VOD Time: 4:10:45 Game Time: 8:58

Initially chooses to go to natural



*********************************

VOD Time: 4:10:59 Game Time: 9:13

Phoenixes selected, immediately looks off to mini-map/hack

monitor again to see where is safe to harrass?

*********************************



VOD Time: 4:11:09 Game Time: 9:22

Phoenixes selected, looking again to the left



******************************

VOD Time: 4:11:12 Game Time: 9:26

Again, the video perfectly matches up to the initial replay

analysis of him sending these phoenix specifically to snipe

the probe going to my third.



He even looks off to the left as the probe is about to get

within vision.



Eyes immediately look away from the probe when it does come

into vision...Ooops Winter?



VOD Time: 4:11:28 Game Time: 9:41

Again, this time eyes go to the right as he watches my units

on the left side of the map.



Perfectly avoids all phoenixes which he had no map vision

of for quite a while. This is the 4th time in a row he has

guessed correctly on his harrass. He had actually made

a beeline towards the natural after looking off screen

and identifying my phoenix were out of position.



VOD Time: 4:11:40 Game Time: 9:53

No vision of my phoenixes...why is he suddenly smiling? He

has not seen my phoenixes coming for his phoenix yet.



What he probably does know is that my phoenix upgrade has

finished and he is about to get caught (in multiple ways).



He starts his change in expression before the phoenix are

even on map/on screen.



************************************ Most Damning

VOD Time: 4:12:23 Game Time: 10:37

Just as previously whenever harrassing with phoenix he looks

off to the left to check where my units are positioned...



He looks to the left as my units are about to reach his ramp,

and this time in the game matches up perfectly with my

initial replay analysis of this moment.



VOD Time: 4:12:24 Game Time: 10:38

He now is again looking off to the left which we can conclude

at this point is into the fog of war at my units as well

as his screen about to be locked.



VOD Time: 4:12:25 Game Time: 10:38/10:39

As with the initial replay analysis, Winter's screen moves

down and locks, as he is looking at my army right outside

of his natural, and he is instantly ready to grab his army

************************************



VOD Time: 4:13:05 Game Time 11:18

Eyes shift again to the left and he seems to know obs is

nearby that he cannot see (never came in vision)



VOD Time: 4:13:15 Game Time: 11:29

The most obvious looks off to the side again, then units all

way pointed onto the observer which he should not even know

is on the map (check the replay analysis)



His cursor jumps to the observer location. Then his units

fumble around.



4:18:09 VS HUK

Eyes to the left before Huk's proxy probe is even in vision on mini-map? He sees proxy, decides to not even check for it? OK



--------------------------------------

As mentioned and linked, i went over this on stream, i would like people's opinions here from TL. Once again, the most obvious suspicious action and impossible one to me is the one at 11:29 where his stalkers are insta rallied to an observer he's never seen with pin point accuracy from off screen while his screen is still at his natural base.



Also edit:

I do not have SC2 gears, but i would appreciate if someone could check the points in the game on SC2 gears where there is the weird way point command into secondary point, something may come up there.



Hacker name: WinterSCServer: NALeague: N/ADescription: Throughout the course of this replay, perfect phoenix harrass early on, always avoids units. I will list all of the time stamps, as well as corresponding time stamps to his VOD that show suspicious action.There are also suspicious waypoint rallies consistently in this game that consistently match-up with opponent unit pathing through the fog of war. In other words, WinterSC units will suddenly all be waypointed to a single point and then a second point past that point that correspond with either my destination point of my units, and with cloaked units through the fog of war.The most damning evidence i found starts at the 11:10-11-35 marks in the replay where if you watch closely going on very slow you will note Winter never moves his screen to the right most observer. The observer also never comes into vision range on top of that. Yet at the 11:28-11:29 mark you will see the strange way point command with the secondary destination point that is instantly put on top of my observer from the mini-map while Winter's screen is near his natural base, not to mention you cannot see cloaked units on the mini-map.The same thing happens multiple times in the game, earlier on in the game phoenix use this waypoint command and are set on the pathing of an observer, then it is done at my third base again set to pathing on a probe through the fog of war, then with the two observers starting at 11:14-11:16 high templar are warped in at my natural on the pathing of my left most observer to where my obs destination point is, and then again with a hallucinated phoenix that has the same waypointed command set on a path with the left most observer, and of course the observer on the right side of the map is the most blatant.My own analysis is here on my VOD: http://www.twitch.tv/avilo/v/4017010 Starting time of Analysis: 13:20End Time of Analysis: 2:15:54Replay: http://drop.sc/395918 VOD Of Opponent During the Game: http://www.twitch.tv/wintergaming/v/4011909 Starting Time of the Game Played: 4:01:40Here are time stamps of my initial replay analysis with thoughts (i also go over all of these in my VOD):6:00goes for gas probes, then clicks through fog of war instead to probe he cannot see, then suddenly changes his mind and goes back to the gas probes (phoenix clicked exactly to the probe)6:04clicks almost directly on/near the MSC. Not unusual that MSC is between bases, but he goes straight to it7:30the 100% evidence: phoenixes selected by winter to kill probe leaving enemy natural, then...7:35his screen locks in place as he perfectly adjusts phoenix pathing towards the probe. Note he does not clickto go scout the third from the start...he is following the probe through the fog of war. This is not a "random" catch that normally would happen like when a player would send their phoenix to the third to scout it9:23All game long winter is willing to blindly send his phoenix in...suddenly when another probe is en route to third his phoenix this time are purposely rallied solely to the third to kill the probe again9:33he has no idea where my phoenix were last at, main? natural? The moment i select my phoenix at 9:33, he selects his and moves his away as if he knows mine are on the way and then suddenly decides it's now safe to hit the natural?10:35no vision of the entire map, no timing on anythingas my units get closer to his natural be begins to select his stalkers repeatedly10:36starts to move his stalkers towards the direction i click my phoenix? similar command is queued up here to the one previously at 9:23 where he had queued phoenix movement in anticipation of a probe...same command done here and cancelled in same fashion10:39screen lock again...? He was microing without even looking at this units? What?11:16winter's templar are warping and and all of the for some reason are waypointed to his natural...Check my observer in the center of the map and where it is headed to...The templar are all rallied to the point near where myobserver end path point is.11:23Screen locks at his natural as he then suddenly selects all stalkers and right clicks towards the observer which of course not only can he not detect, it is not even in range of his nexus or units in the fog of war.11:24the only scout/hallucinated phoenix makes the entire game is perfectly timed/pathed to cross paths with theobserver coming down the center of the map.Phoenix is also way pointed to what looks random at firstbut was a previous location near the observer's pathingThere is no reason to waypoint the phoenix in this nature ever which means it is automated with the hack winter is usingWhatever hack this may be can possibly re-orient and set units on a path that will be to the intended destinationof an opponent's unit?11:28-11:29The third time this strange command has been issued this game with his units. Keep in mind since 11:23 winter has notever visually seen on his screen the observer blip.His screen is at his natural and he warps in a stalker. He then immediately has all of his stalkers selected and they all are instantly commanded to the exact pinpoint location of where the observer is on the mini-map, which of course is impossible because Winter never ever had his camera anywhere near the observer in the first place to have seen itBonus Round:Winter's VOD:Starting from 4:06:41:Every time he selects phoenixes to move them his eyes changedirection looking at map for where my units are or are notNotice when he goes back to base to macro normally his focusis entirely on buildings, looks at main monitor...Then every time he goes to harrass he is looking at anentirely different monitor? ????4:06:51Winter Selects phoenixes, eyes immediately shift to lookingat mini map4:07:11Attention focuses momentarily to macro face forward as normal4:07:12Head suddenly shifts again to look at other monitor? map?Checking for position of my units, another successful harrass4:07:17Focused back on main monitor, goes to macro4:07:20Attention back on phoenixes4:07:32Back to macroing...4:07:33Head turns immediately now to check mini-map/2nd monitor forposition of my units4:07:39This will no repeatedly happen any time he goes to harrassand selects his phoenixes, he will look off to the left(from his perspective).4:07:36Looks off to the left again checking mini-map/monitor/hackfor position of my units to see if safe to phoenix harrassOnce again, perfectly avoids all units4:08:07Selects phoenixes starts clicking around, then eyes againgo to his left to check mini-map/hack/monitorOnce again, perfectly avoid all units that had sent backto the natural.4:08:35Again, eyes to the left after selecting phoenixes4:08:33Looks like he looks off at the probe?4:08:38Phoenixes selected again, eyes shift way left again lookingoff to check where my units are again.Third time, 100% avoids all my units. Choosing correct basefor PHoenix to harrass4:09:02He is bouncing phoenix between base, but checks hismini-map/hack/monitor just to make sure it's safe.Once again perfectly avoids army.4:09:14He immediately looks off to the left again, has his phoenixselected while screen is between his main and natural----------------------------------------------------***************VOD Time: 4:09:17 Game Time: 7:30This was the first very blatant moment i found from thereplay analysis of him following a unit through the fog ofwar.***************Watching the VOD after confirms that he immediately selectshis phoenixes and his eyes veer off as has occurred everysingle time he does a 100% successful phoenix harrass.VOD Time: 4:09:20 Game Time: 7:33All phoenixes selected, begins to look off to the left againVOD Time: 4:09:23 Game Time: 7:36As he follows my probe through the fog of war he beginslooking more to the left again*******************************************************VOD Time: 4:09:35 Game Time 7:48For the first time while harrassing with phoenixes, he doesnot look off to the left at his second monitor/hack and heruns into my phoenixes/stalkers this time.This is the one time during the VOD he does not turn his eyes left and it is the only time he predicts wrong on where my units are.*****************************************************VOD Time: 4:09:47 Game Time: 8:00Phoenixes selected, ready to harrass...VOD Time: 4:09:50 Game Time: 8:03He again looks to his mini-map/monitor/hack to check forwhere my units are or are notVOD Time: 4:10:44 Game Time: 8:57Phoenixes selected, he looks off to left at mini-map/hackmonitor to see where is safe to harrassVOD Time: 4:10:45 Game Time: 8:58Initially chooses to go to natural*********************************VOD Time: 4:10:59 Game Time: 9:13Phoenixes selected, immediately looks off to mini-map/hackmonitor again to see where is safe to harrass?*********************************VOD Time: 4:11:09 Game Time: 9:22Phoenixes selected, looking again to the left******************************VOD Time: 4:11:12 Game Time: 9:26Again, the video perfectly matches up to the initial replayanalysis of him sending these phoenix specifically to snipethe probe going to my third.He even looks off to the left as the probe is about to getwithin vision.Eyes immediately look away from the probe when it does comeinto vision...Ooops Winter?VOD Time: 4:11:28 Game Time: 9:41Again, this time eyes go to the right as he watches my unitson the left side of the map.Perfectly avoids all phoenixes which he had no map visionof for quite a while. This is the 4th time in a row he hasguessed correctly on his harrass. He had actually madea beeline towards the natural after looking off screenand identifying my phoenix were out of position.VOD Time: 4:11:40 Game Time: 9:53No vision of my phoenixes...why is he suddenly smiling? Hehas not seen my phoenixes coming for his phoenix yet.What he probably does know is that my phoenix upgrade hasfinished and he is about to get caught (in multiple ways).He starts his change in expression before the phoenix areeven on map/on screen.************************************ Most DamningVOD Time: 4:12:23 Game Time: 10:37Just as previously whenever harrassing with phoenix he looksoff to the left to check where my units are positioned...He looks to the left as my units are about to reach his ramp,and this time in the game matches up perfectly with myinitial replay analysis of this moment.VOD Time: 4:12:24 Game Time: 10:38He now is again looking off to the left which we can concludeat this point is into the fog of war at my units as wellas his screen about to be locked.VOD Time: 4:12:25 Game Time: 10:38/10:39As with the initial replay analysis, Winter's screen movesdown and locks, as he is looking at my army right outsideof his natural, and he is instantly ready to grab his army************************************VOD Time: 4:13:05 Game Time 11:18Eyes shift again to the left and he seems to know obs isnearby that he cannot see (never came in vision)VOD Time: 4:13:15 Game Time: 11:29The most obvious looks off to the side again, then units allway pointed onto the observer which he should not even knowis on the map (check the replay analysis)His cursor jumps to the observer location. Then his unitsfumble around.4:18:09 VS HUKEyes to the left before Huk's proxy probe is even in vision on mini-map? He sees proxy, decides to not even check for it? OK--------------------------------------As mentioned and linked, i went over this on stream, i would like people's opinions here from TL. Once again, the most obvious suspicious action and impossible one to me is the one at 11:29 where his stalkers are insta rallied to an observer he's never seen with pin point accuracy from off screen while his screen is still at his natural base.Also edit:I do not have SC2 gears, but i would appreciate if someone could check the points in the game on SC2 gears where there is the weird way point command into secondary point, something may come up there.



I don't care about Winter, I don't even follow him, but please Avilo, leave this community and switch to LoL.



User was warned for this post I don't care about Winter, I don't even follow him, but please Avilo, leave this community and switch to LoL.

starslayer Profile Joined August 2011 United States 659 Posts Last Edited: 2015-04-12 09:02:25 #9286 On April 12 2015 17:45 zer0slayer wrote:

Show nested quote +

On April 12 2015 17:33 avilo wrote:

Replay:

huk vs winter (ty huk for sending the replay)



[...] Replay: http://drop.sc/396244 huk vs winter (ty huk for sending the replay)[...]



Proof of huk sending you the replay?





Proof of huk sending you the replay?



LOL i could care less if winter hacks we all now he is scum but come on

LOL very first post and its here lol that you winter? LOL i could care less if winter hacks we all now he is scum but come onLOL very first post and its here lol that you winter? i came here to kickass and chew bubblegum and i'm all out of bubble gum

Garemie Profile Joined April 2011 United States 248 Posts #9287 On April 12 2015 16:01 GGzerG wrote:

Show nested quote +

On April 12 2015 12:11 WinterStarcraft wrote:

On April 12 2015 12:09 avilo wrote:

On April 12 2015 12:06 WinterStarcraft wrote:

On April 12 2015 12:00 richlol wrote:

On April 12 2015 11:56 WinterStarcraft wrote:

On April 12 2015 11:55 avilo wrote:

On April 12 2015 11:49 WinterStarcraft wrote:

On April 12 2015 11:33 avilo wrote:

On April 12 2015 10:08 WinterStarcraft wrote:

lol. here are my last 250 replays to confirm my hacking



EDIT: here are my LOTV games, accidentally linked only my HOTS GM account first lol. here are my last 250 replays to confirm my hacking http://sc2replaystats.com/account/replays/4312/0/959221/1v1/AutoMM/21/0 (from the last few weeks)EDIT: here are my LOTV games, accidentally linked only my HOTS GM account first http://sc2replaystats.com/account/replays/4312/0/1156135/1v1/AutoMM/21/0 (includes 2-0 vs avilo)



Releasing 200 replays of the past has nothing to do with the fact it appears you are hacking in the game i posted.

Can you explain what is this mysterious system you have to follow invisible units through the fog of war, and insta rallying to gas geysers on observer unit pathing?



Can you explain following a probe through the fog of war and clicking towards it and changing your unit pathing to get the probe? It's all just going to be luck right?



Hind sight 20/20 i should have posted this under a new account perhaps? Because people here are bashing me or saying things that have nothing to do with all of the evidence i have provided. Releasing 200 replays of the past has nothing to do with the fact it appears you are hacking in the game i posted.Can you explain what is this mysterious system you have to follow invisible units through the fog of war, and insta rallying to gas geysers on observer unit pathing?Can you explain following a probe through the fog of war and clicking towards it and changing your unit pathing to get the probe? It's all just going to be luck right?Hind sight 20/20 i should have posted this under a new account perhaps? Because people here are bashing me or saying things that have nothing to do with all of the evidence i have provided.



Because TL is the only place to even pretend to have a legitimate discussion in sc2 I will give you a legitimate response. All of the evidence you have suggested is hacks is called "using active units". When you have an active unit like phoenixes you keep them on the map in the most valid locations. Several times you defend/overcharge your natural which forces my phoenixes to find another location to attack, which is obviously the main via the third. You send your probe out directly after overcharging SEVERAL times, to exactly where the logical place for me to move my phoenixes is. Most of those times the probe only enters my vision AFTER I have already sent a command into the main and I pick it up incidentally. Most of the game I did not even realize you had observers, or I would obviously have killed/avoided them. All luck.



EDIT: I would argue al;most 500 replays and over 100 hours of games would have more validity than 12 minutes of an offrace PvP.

Because TL is the only place to even pretend to have a legitimate discussion in sc2 I will give you a legitimate response. All of the evidence you have suggested is hacks is called "using active units". When you have an active unit like phoenixes you keep them on the map in the most valid locations. Several times you defend/overcharge your natural which forces my phoenixes to find another location to attack, which is obviously the main via the third. You send your probe out directly after overcharging SEVERAL times, to exactly where the logical place for me to move my phoenixes is. Most of those times the probe only enters my vision AFTER I have already sent a command into the main and I pick it up incidentally. Most of the game I did not even realize you had observers, or I would obviously have killed/avoided them. All luck.EDIT: I would argue al;most 500 replays and over 100 hours of games would have more validity than 12 minutes of an offrace PvP.



The evidence i have provided shows more than "using active units." It shows that you have knowledge of things in the fog of war that you should have zero knowledge of.



You even self admittedly just said you do not even realize observers are on the map, yet your units are always perfectly pathed to them and their destination points, in the most blatant case at 11:29 with pin-point accuracy while your map is not even on the same screen as the command is given. You jump to the observer immediately after as if you know it's there...and then your screen stops when you seem to realize it's an invisible unit on your mini-map, not something that could be attacked.



The same thing happens multiple times in the game, with the same set of commands being issued. The evidence i have provided shows more than "using active units." It shows that you have knowledge of things in the fog of war that you should have zero knowledge of.You even self admittedly just said you do not even realize observers are on the map, yet your units are always perfectly pathed to them and their destination points, in the most blatant case at 11:29 with pin-point accuracy while your map is not even on the same screen as the command is given. You jump to the observer immediately after as if you know it's there...and then your screen stops when you seem to realize it's an invisible unit on your mini-map, not something that could be attacked.The same thing happens multiple times in the game, with the same set of commands being issued.



My patience lasted one post. I look forward to any player of professional experience agreeing with you on the convincing nature of these offences. My patience lasted one post. I look forward to any player of professional experience agreeing with you on the convincing nature of these offences.



You, more than anyone here, have the power to "shut Avilo up", if you will, by streaming behind-the-shoulder games at a high level. But like I mentioned earlier, that's completely at your discretion. It's just the best advice I could give to anyone who's accused of hacking (you especially, because of your reputation). You, more than anyone here, have the power to "shut Avilo up", if you will, by streaming behind-the-shoulder games at a high level. But like I mentioned earlier, that's completely at your discretion. It's just the best advice I could give to anyone who's accused of hacking (you especially, because of your reputation).



The more you acknowledge him the worse he will get (and others like him). I do my best to stay away from the drama but recently of course it becomes more and more impossible as there are many who literally create or convince themselves of things that are overwhelmingly fake, but go along with the others who are convinced they're true because it is easier.



I am obviously not hacking, nor would I need to to beat Avilo (especially in PvP, I already beat him in ZvT in LOTV as well which makes me surprised a PvP game was chosen as "evidence"). I'm not going to call for mods to delete these posts but I would like to hear the objective analysis of any professional player. Also objectively, if we are using the arguement "Avilo called Polt and Parting a hacker but this time we have to take what he says seriously" then it is hypocritical to use the arguement "Well Winter is a proven viewbotter (despite being cleared by Twitch and Blizzard) so he's probably hacking too." The more you acknowledge him the worse he will get (and others like him). I do my best to stay away from the drama but recently of course it becomes more and more impossible as there are many who literally create or convince themselves of things that are overwhelmingly fake, but go along with the others who are convinced they're true because it is easier.I am obviously not hacking, nor would I need to to beat Avilo (especially in PvP, I already beat him in ZvT in LOTV as well which makes me surprised a PvP game was chosen as "evidence"). I'm not going to call for mods to delete these posts but I would like to hear the objective analysis of any professional player. Also objectively, if we are using the arguement "Avilo called Polt and Parting a hacker but this time we have to take what he says seriously" then it is hypocritical to use the arguement "Well Winter is a proven viewbotter (despite being cleared by Twitch and Blizzard) so he's probably hacking too."



Sorry, but once again, those arguments have nothing to do with the evidence provided. Are you going to address the points i made in my last post? Sorry, but once again, those arguments have nothing to do with the evidence provided. Are you going to address the points i made in my last post?



You have less points than a basketball. You have less points than a basketball.



Your statements have less relevance than a George Bush speech. You are a disgrace to all streamers / gamers who believe in legitimacy.



EDIT : I cannot believe I am reading you talking about qualifying for WCS lol....Winter really? Get over yourself, You aren't even legit in the slightest, Can't wait till we play again. Your statements have less relevance than a George Bush speech. You are a disgrace to all streamers / gamers who believe in legitimacy.EDIT : I cannot believe I am reading you talking about qualifying for WCS lol....Winter really? Get over yourself, You aren't even legit in the slightest, Can't wait till we play again.



Wow this is getting to be legitimately dumb. I will for sure get banned and deleted for this but the past few pages of this thread are a great example of how we're killing our own game.



How long until this witch hunt turns into it being Obama's fault?





User was warned for this post Wow this is getting to be legitimately dumb. I will for sure get banned and deleted for this but the past few pages of this thread are a great example of how we're killing our own game.How long until this witch hunt turns into it being Obama's fault? Bomber | CJ herO | Snute

SAFenix Profile Joined July 2011 Canada 439 Posts #9288 On April 12 2015 17:58 UncoolName wrote:

Show nested quote +

On April 12 2015 04:57 avilo wrote:

Hacker name: WinterSC

Server: NA

League: N/A

Description: Throughout the course of this replay, perfect phoenix harrass early on, always avoids units. I will list all of the time stamps, as well as corresponding time stamps to his VOD that show suspicious action.



There are also suspicious waypoint rallies consistently in this game that consistently match-up with opponent unit pathing through the fog of war. In other words, WinterSC units will suddenly all be waypointed to a single point and then a second point past that point that correspond with either my destination point of my units, and with cloaked units through the fog of war.



The most damning evidence i found starts at the 11:10-11-35 marks in the replay where if you watch closely going on very slow you will note Winter never moves his screen to the right most observer. The observer also never comes into vision range on top of that. Yet at the 11:28-11:29 mark you will see the strange way point command with the secondary destination point that is instantly put on top of my observer from the mini-map while Winter's screen is near his natural base, not to mention you cannot see cloaked units on the mini-map.



The same thing happens multiple times in the game, earlier on in the game phoenix use this waypoint command and are set on the pathing of an observer, then it is done at my third base again set to pathing on a probe through the fog of war, then with the two observers starting at 11:14-11:16 high templar are warped in at my natural on the pathing of my left most observer to where my obs destination point is, and then again with a hallucinated phoenix that has the same waypointed command set on a path with the left most observer, and of course the observer on the right side of the map is the most blatant.



My own analysis is here on my VOD:

Starting time of Analysis: 13:20

End Time of Analysis: 2:15:54



Replay:

VOD Of Opponent During the Game:

Starting Time of the Game Played: 4:01:40



Here are time stamps of my initial replay analysis with thoughts (i also go over all of these in my VOD):



6:00

goes for gas probes, then clicks through fog of war instead to probe he cannot see, then suddenly changes his mind and goes back to the gas probes (phoenix clicked exactly to the probe)



6:04

clicks almost directly on/near the MSC. Not unusual that MSC is between bases, but he goes straight to it



7:30

the 100% evidence: phoenixes selected by winter to kill probe leaving enemy natural, then...



7:35

his screen locks in place as he perfectly adjusts phoenix pathing towards the probe. Note he does not click

to go scout the third from the start...he is following the probe through the fog of war. This is not a "random" catch that normally would happen like when a player would send their phoenix to the third to scout it



9:23

All game long winter is willing to blindly send his phoenix in...suddenly when another probe is en route to third his phoenix this time are purposely rallied solely to the third to kill the probe again



9:33

he has no idea where my phoenix were last at, main? natural? The moment i select my phoenix at 9:33, he selects his and moves his away as if he knows mine are on the way and then suddenly decides it's now safe to hit the natural?



10:35

no vision of the entire map, no timing on anythingas my units get closer to his natural be begins to select his stalkers repeatedly



10:36

starts to move his stalkers towards the direction i click my phoenix? similar command is queued up here to the one previously at 9:23 where he had queued phoenix movement in anticipation of a probe...same command done here and cancelled in same fashion



10:39

screen lock again...? He was microing without even looking at this units? What?



11:16

winter's templar are warping and and all of the for some reason are waypointed to his natural...

Check my observer in the center of the map and where it is headed to...



The templar are all rallied to the point near where my

observer end path point is.



11:23

Screen locks at his natural as he then suddenly selects all stalkers and right clicks towards the observer which of course not only can he not detect, it is not even in range of his nexus or units in the fog of war.



11:24

the only scout/hallucinated phoenix makes the entire game is perfectly timed/pathed to cross paths with the

observer coming down the center of the map.



Phoenix is also way pointed to what looks random at firstbut was a previous location near the observer's pathing



There is no reason to waypoint the phoenix in this nature ever which means it is automated with the hack winter is using



Whatever hack this may be can possibly re-orient and set units on a path that will be to the intended destination

of an opponent's unit?



11:28-11:29

The third time this strange command has been issued this game with his units. Keep in mind since 11:23 winter has not

ever visually seen on his screen the observer blip.



His screen is at his natural and he warps in a stalker. He then immediately has all of his stalkers selected and they all are instantly commanded to the exact pinpoint location of where the observer is on the mini-map, which of course is impossible because Winter never ever had his camera anywhere near the observer in the first place to have seen it



Bonus Round:

Winter's VOD:

http://www.twitch.tv/wintergaming/v/4011909



Starting from 4:06:41:

Every time he selects phoenixes to move them his eyes change

direction looking at map for where my units are or are not



Notice when he goes back to base to macro normally his focus

is entirely on buildings, looks at main monitor...



Then every time he goes to harrass he is looking at an

entirely different monitor? ????



4:06:51

Winter Selects phoenixes, eyes immediately shift to looking

at mini map



4:07:11

Attention focuses momentarily to macro face forward as normal



4:07:12

Head suddenly shifts again to look at other monitor? map?

Checking for position of my units, another successful harrass



4:07:17

Focused back on main monitor, goes to macro



4:07:20

Attention back on phoenixes



4:07:32

Back to macroing...



4:07:33

Head turns immediately now to check mini-map/2nd monitor for

position of my units



4:07:39

This will no repeatedly happen any time he goes to harrass

and selects his phoenixes, he will look off to the left

(from his perspective).



4:07:36

Looks off to the left again checking mini-map/monitor/hack

for position of my units to see if safe to phoenix harrass



Once again, perfectly avoids all units



4:08:07

Selects phoenixes starts clicking around, then eyes again

go to his left to check mini-map/hack/monitor



Once again, perfectly avoid all units that had sent back

to the natural.



4:08:35

Again, eyes to the left after selecting phoenixes



4:08:33

Looks like he looks off at the probe?



4:08:38

Phoenixes selected again, eyes shift way left again looking

off to check where my units are again.



Third time, 100% avoids all my units. Choosing correct base

for PHoenix to harrass



4:09:02

He is bouncing phoenix between base, but checks his

mini-map/hack/monitor just to make sure it's safe.



Once again perfectly avoids army.



4:09:14

He immediately looks off to the left again, has his phoenix

selected while screen is between his main and natural





----------------------------------------------------

***************

VOD Time: 4:09:17 Game Time: 7:30

This was the first very blatant moment i found from the

replay analysis of him following a unit through the fog of

war.

***************

Watching the VOD after confirms that he immediately selects

his phoenixes and his eyes veer off as has occurred every

single time he does a 100% successful phoenix harrass.



VOD Time: 4:09:20 Game Time: 7:33

All phoenixes selected, begins to look off to the left again



VOD Time: 4:09:23 Game Time: 7:36

As he follows my probe through the fog of war he begins

looking more to the left again



*******************************************************

VOD Time: 4:09:35 Game Time 7:48

For the first time while harrassing with phoenixes, he does

not look off to the left at his second monitor/hack and he

runs into my phoenixes/stalkers this time.



This is the one time during the VOD he does not turn his eyes left and it is the only time he predicts wrong on where my units are.

*****************************************************



VOD Time: 4:09:47 Game Time: 8:00

Phoenixes selected, ready to harrass...



VOD Time: 4:09:50 Game Time: 8:03

He again looks to his mini-map/monitor/hack to check for

where my units are or are not



VOD Time: 4:10:44 Game Time: 8:57

Phoenixes selected, he looks off to left at mini-map/hack

monitor to see where is safe to harrass



VOD Time: 4:10:45 Game Time: 8:58

Initially chooses to go to natural



*********************************

VOD Time: 4:10:59 Game Time: 9:13

Phoenixes selected, immediately looks off to mini-map/hack

monitor again to see where is safe to harrass?

*********************************



VOD Time: 4:11:09 Game Time: 9:22

Phoenixes selected, looking again to the left



******************************

VOD Time: 4:11:12 Game Time: 9:26

Again, the video perfectly matches up to the initial replay

analysis of him sending these phoenix specifically to snipe

the probe going to my third.



He even looks off to the left as the probe is about to get

within vision.



Eyes immediately look away from the probe when it does come

into vision...Ooops Winter?



VOD Time: 4:11:28 Game Time: 9:41

Again, this time eyes go to the right as he watches my units

on the left side of the map.



Perfectly avoids all phoenixes which he had no map vision

of for quite a while. This is the 4th time in a row he has

guessed correctly on his harrass. He had actually made

a beeline towards the natural after looking off screen

and identifying my phoenix were out of position.



VOD Time: 4:11:40 Game Time: 9:53

No vision of my phoenixes...why is he suddenly smiling? He

has not seen my phoenixes coming for his phoenix yet.



What he probably does know is that my phoenix upgrade has

finished and he is about to get caught (in multiple ways).



He starts his change in expression before the phoenix are

even on map/on screen.



************************************ Most Damning

VOD Time: 4:12:23 Game Time: 10:37

Just as previously whenever harrassing with phoenix he looks

off to the left to check where my units are positioned...



He looks to the left as my units are about to reach his ramp,

and this time in the game matches up perfectly with my

initial replay analysis of this moment.



VOD Time: 4:12:24 Game Time: 10:38

He now is again looking off to the left which we can conclude

at this point is into the fog of war at my units as well

as his screen about to be locked.



VOD Time: 4:12:25 Game Time: 10:38/10:39

As with the initial replay analysis, Winter's screen moves

down and locks, as he is looking at my army right outside

of his natural, and he is instantly ready to grab his army

************************************



VOD Time: 4:13:05 Game Time 11:18

Eyes shift again to the left and he seems to know obs is

nearby that he cannot see (never came in vision)



VOD Time: 4:13:15 Game Time: 11:29

The most obvious looks off to the side again, then units all

way pointed onto the observer which he should not even know

is on the map (check the replay analysis)



His cursor jumps to the observer location. Then his units

fumble around.



4:18:09 VS HUK

Eyes to the left before Huk's proxy probe is even in vision on mini-map? He sees proxy, decides to not even check for it? OK



--------------------------------------

As mentioned and linked, i went over this on stream, i would like people's opinions here from TL. Once again, the most obvious suspicious action and impossible one to me is the one at 11:29 where his stalkers are insta rallied to an observer he's never seen with pin point accuracy from off screen while his screen is still at his natural base.



Also edit:

I do not have SC2 gears, but i would appreciate if someone could check the points in the game on SC2 gears where there is the weird way point command into secondary point, something may come up there.



Hacker name: WinterSCServer: NALeague: N/ADescription: Throughout the course of this replay, perfect phoenix harrass early on, always avoids units. I will list all of the time stamps, as well as corresponding time stamps to his VOD that show suspicious action.There are also suspicious waypoint rallies consistently in this game that consistently match-up with opponent unit pathing through the fog of war. In other words, WinterSC units will suddenly all be waypointed to a single point and then a second point past that point that correspond with either my destination point of my units, and with cloaked units through the fog of war.The most damning evidence i found starts at the 11:10-11-35 marks in the replay where if you watch closely going on very slow you will note Winter never moves his screen to the right most observer. The observer also never comes into vision range on top of that. Yet at the 11:28-11:29 mark you will see the strange way point command with the secondary destination point that is instantly put on top of my observer from the mini-map while Winter's screen is near his natural base, not to mention you cannot see cloaked units on the mini-map.The same thing happens multiple times in the game, earlier on in the game phoenix use this waypoint command and are set on the pathing of an observer, then it is done at my third base again set to pathing on a probe through the fog of war, then with the two observers starting at 11:14-11:16 high templar are warped in at my natural on the pathing of my left most observer to where my obs destination point is, and then again with a hallucinated phoenix that has the same waypointed command set on a path with the left most observer, and of course the observer on the right side of the map is the most blatant.My own analysis is here on my VOD: http://www.twitch.tv/avilo/v/4017010 Starting time of Analysis: 13:20End Time of Analysis: 2:15:54Replay: http://drop.sc/395918 VOD Of Opponent During the Game: http://www.twitch.tv/wintergaming/v/4011909 Starting Time of the Game Played: 4:01:40Here are time stamps of my initial replay analysis with thoughts (i also go over all of these in my VOD):6:00goes for gas probes, then clicks through fog of war instead to probe he cannot see, then suddenly changes his mind and goes back to the gas probes (phoenix clicked exactly to the probe)6:04clicks almost directly on/near the MSC. Not unusual that MSC is between bases, but he goes straight to it7:30the 100% evidence: phoenixes selected by winter to kill probe leaving enemy natural, then...7:35his screen locks in place as he perfectly adjusts phoenix pathing towards the probe. Note he does not clickto go scout the third from the start...he is following the probe through the fog of war. This is not a "random" catch that normally would happen like when a player would send their phoenix to the third to scout it9:23All game long winter is willing to blindly send his phoenix in...suddenly when another probe is en route to third his phoenix this time are purposely rallied solely to the third to kill the probe again9:33he has no idea where my phoenix were last at, main? natural? The moment i select my phoenix at 9:33, he selects his and moves his away as if he knows mine are on the way and then suddenly decides it's now safe to hit the natural?10:35no vision of the entire map, no timing on anythingas my units get closer to his natural be begins to select his stalkers repeatedly10:36starts to move his stalkers towards the direction i click my phoenix? similar command is queued up here to the one previously at 9:23 where he had queued phoenix movement in anticipation of a probe...same command done here and cancelled in same fashion10:39screen lock again...? He was microing without even looking at this units? What?11:16winter's templar are warping and and all of the for some reason are waypointed to his natural...Check my observer in the center of the map and where it is headed to...The templar are all rallied to the point near where myobserver end path point is.11:23Screen locks at his natural as he then suddenly selects all stalkers and right clicks towards the observer which of course not only can he not detect, it is not even in range of his nexus or units in the fog of war.11:24the only scout/hallucinated phoenix makes the entire game is perfectly timed/pathed to cross paths with theobserver coming down the center of the map.Phoenix is also way pointed to what looks random at firstbut was a previous location near the observer's pathingThere is no reason to waypoint the phoenix in this nature ever which means it is automated with the hack winter is usingWhatever hack this may be can possibly re-orient and set units on a path that will be to the intended destinationof an opponent's unit?11:28-11:29The third time this strange command has been issued this game with his units. Keep in mind since 11:23 winter has notever visually seen on his screen the observer blip.His screen is at his natural and he warps in a stalker. He then immediately has all of his stalkers selected and they all are instantly commanded to the exact pinpoint location of where the observer is on the mini-map, which of course is impossible because Winter never ever had his camera anywhere near the observer in the first place to have seen itBonus Round:Winter's VOD:Starting from 4:06:41:Every time he selects phoenixes to move them his eyes changedirection looking at map for where my units are or are notNotice when he goes back to base to macro normally his focusis entirely on buildings, looks at main monitor...Then every time he goes to harrass he is looking at anentirely different monitor? ????4:06:51Winter Selects phoenixes, eyes immediately shift to lookingat mini map4:07:11Attention focuses momentarily to macro face forward as normal4:07:12Head suddenly shifts again to look at other monitor? map?Checking for position of my units, another successful harrass4:07:17Focused back on main monitor, goes to macro4:07:20Attention back on phoenixes4:07:32Back to macroing...4:07:33Head turns immediately now to check mini-map/2nd monitor forposition of my units4:07:39This will no repeatedly happen any time he goes to harrassand selects his phoenixes, he will look off to the left(from his perspective).4:07:36Looks off to the left again checking mini-map/monitor/hackfor position of my units to see if safe to phoenix harrassOnce again, perfectly avoids all units4:08:07Selects phoenixes starts clicking around, then eyes againgo to his left to check mini-map/hack/monitorOnce again, perfectly avoid all units that had sent backto the natural.4:08:35Again, eyes to the left after selecting phoenixes4:08:33Looks like he looks off at the probe?4:08:38Phoenixes selected again, eyes shift way left again lookingoff to check where my units are again.Third time, 100% avoids all my units. Choosing correct basefor PHoenix to harrass4:09:02He is bouncing phoenix between base, but checks hismini-map/hack/monitor just to make sure it's safe.Once again perfectly avoids army.4:09:14He immediately looks off to the left again, has his phoenixselected while screen is between his main and natural----------------------------------------------------***************VOD Time: 4:09:17 Game Time: 7:30This was the first very blatant moment i found from thereplay analysis of him following a unit through the fog ofwar.***************Watching the VOD after confirms that he immediately selectshis phoenixes and his eyes veer off as has occurred everysingle time he does a 100% successful phoenix harrass.VOD Time: 4:09:20 Game Time: 7:33All phoenixes selected, begins to look off to the left againVOD Time: 4:09:23 Game Time: 7:36As he follows my probe through the fog of war he beginslooking more to the left again*******************************************************VOD Time: 4:09:35 Game Time 7:48For the first time while harrassing with phoenixes, he doesnot look off to the left at his second monitor/hack and heruns into my phoenixes/stalkers this time.This is the one time during the VOD he does not turn his eyes left and it is the only time he predicts wrong on where my units are.*****************************************************VOD Time: 4:09:47 Game Time: 8:00Phoenixes selected, ready to harrass...VOD Time: 4:09:50 Game Time: 8:03He again looks to his mini-map/monitor/hack to check forwhere my units are or are notVOD Time: 4:10:44 Game Time: 8:57Phoenixes selected, he looks off to left at mini-map/hackmonitor to see where is safe to harrassVOD Time: 4:10:45 Game Time: 8:58Initially chooses to go to natural*********************************VOD Time: 4:10:59 Game Time: 9:13Phoenixes selected, immediately looks off to mini-map/hackmonitor again to see where is safe to harrass?*********************************VOD Time: 4:11:09 Game Time: 9:22Phoenixes selected, looking again to the left******************************VOD Time: 4:11:12 Game Time: 9:26Again, the video perfectly matches up to the initial replayanalysis of him sending these phoenix specifically to snipethe probe going to my third.He even looks off to the left as the probe is about to getwithin vision.Eyes immediately look away from the probe when it does comeinto vision...Ooops Winter?VOD Time: 4:11:28 Game Time: 9:41Again, this time eyes go to the right as he watches my unitson the left side of the map.Perfectly avoids all phoenixes which he had no map visionof for quite a while. This is the 4th time in a row he hasguessed correctly on his harrass. He had actually madea beeline towards the natural after looking off screenand identifying my phoenix were out of position.VOD Time: 4:11:40 Game Time: 9:53No vision of my phoenixes...why is he suddenly smiling? Hehas not seen my phoenixes coming for his phoenix yet.What he probably does know is that my phoenix upgrade hasfinished and he is about to get caught (in multiple ways).He starts his change in expression before the phoenix areeven on map/on screen.************************************ Most DamningVOD Time: 4:12:23 Game Time: 10:37Just as previously whenever harrassing with phoenix he looksoff to the left to check where my units are positioned...He looks to the left as my units are about to reach his ramp,and this time in the game matches up perfectly with myinitial replay analysis of this moment.VOD Time: 4:12:24 Game Time: 10:38He now is again looking off to the left which we can concludeat this point is into the fog of war at my units as wellas his screen about to be locked.VOD Time: 4:12:25 Game Time: 10:38/10:39As with the initial replay analysis, Winter's screen movesdown and locks, as he is looking at my army right outsideof his natural, and he is instantly ready to grab his army************************************VOD Time: 4:13:05 Game Time 11:18Eyes shift again to the left and he seems to know obs isnearby that he cannot see (never came in vision)VOD Time: 4:13:15 Game Time: 11:29The most obvious looks off to the side again, then units allway pointed onto the observer which he should not even knowis on the map (check the replay analysis)His cursor jumps to the observer location. Then his unitsfumble around.4:18:09 VS HUKEyes to the left before Huk's proxy probe is even in vision on mini-map? He sees proxy, decides to not even check for it? OK--------------------------------------As mentioned and linked, i went over this on stream, i would like people's opinions here from TL. Once again, the most obvious suspicious action and impossible one to me is the one at 11:29 where his stalkers are insta rallied to an observer he's never seen with pin point accuracy from off screen while his screen is still at his natural base.Also edit:I do not have SC2 gears, but i would appreciate if someone could check the points in the game on SC2 gears where there is the weird way point command into secondary point, something may come up there.



I don't care about Winter, I don't even follow him, but please Avilo, leave this community and switch to LoL. I don't care about Winter, I don't even follow him, but please Avilo, leave this community and switch to LoL.



Solid first post.

Solid first post. mYi.Rain | SKT1.soO

SAFenix Profile Joined July 2011 Canada 439 Posts #9289 On April 12 2015 13:17 JustinDunk1n wrote:

I'm just going to say this as someone who went into the thing open minded. There is extremely good evidence of a cheat being used. I at first was skeptical, because it is Avilo. After watching the vod and hearing all he had to say there is insurmountable evidence winter is using a cheat. I honestly would be ashamed if I had anything to do with supporting Winter. This kid is the most manipulative person I have seen on Twitch since ZileanOP. He can make all the fake liquid accounts he wants to post on here. This kind of bullcrap gets out eventually. I can't wait for him to get perma banned. It is going to be beautiful.

You definitely went into this with an 'open mind'. You definitely went into this with an 'open mind'. mYi.Rain | SKT1.soO

brickrd Profile Blog Joined March 2014 United States 4894 Posts #9290 two foreign ladder players arguing over a hack accusation. yep, classic SC2 drama

nicknack Profile Joined January 2011 Australia 186 Posts #9291 On April 12 2015 17:33 avilo wrote:



VOD Time 29:56 Game Time 11:28

Winter is actually following Huk's Phoenixes through the fog of war and commands his units over them, almost as if he is trying to right click them.



If it is not enough that winter can chase visible units through the fog of war, he is able to with great precision locate cloaked units through the fog of war in two different games.



He also pre-stims the marines before clicking to where the phoenixes are.



Can you do side by side screenshots of where winter is clicking and where Huks units are? IE winter vision and observer vision showing the units and where he is clicking. Don't have the replay or beta to check my self. He also pre-stims the marines before clicking to where the phoenixes are.Can you do side by side screenshots of where winter is clicking and where Huks units are? IE winter vision and observer vision showing the units and where he is clicking. Don't have the replay or beta to check my self.

Crot4le Profile Joined June 2013 England 2927 Posts #9292 On April 12 2015 09:44 v_lm wrote:

I watched Avilo analysis and I must say it's pretty neat. Like I'm doing analysis myself and catched a couple of maphackers. I know the typical Maphacker moves.

I think everyone who's dealt with maphack (know the basics) and watches Avilo's VOD and follow the steps is 100 % convinced that he is maphacking.



Big props to Avilo for putting that much work/time to catch him.







Ps to Avilo Worst than maphacking I think he has a hack that intercept the closest ennemy unit or smthing. Hence the weird pathing.



pps : Beyond the fact that he caught Winter, his work is remarkable and can inspire all of us to study replays and track maphacks.



ppps JustinDunk1n are you a bot ^^ ?



Err, no. Majority of people, like myself, who have analysed it have concluded that there's nothing to these accusations. Err, no. Majority of people, like myself, who have analysed it have concluded that there's nothing to these accusations. Massive fan of Axiom eSports | Crotale#992 | Twitter: @Crot4le

Crot4le Profile Joined June 2013 England 2927 Posts #9293 On April 12 2015 18:08 SAFenix wrote:

Show nested quote +

On April 12 2015 13:17 JustinDunk1n wrote:

I'm just going to say this as someone who went into the thing open minded. There is extremely good evidence of a cheat being used. I at first was skeptical, because it is Avilo. After watching the vod and hearing all he had to say there is insurmountable evidence winter is using a cheat. I honestly would be ashamed if I had anything to do with supporting Winter. This kid is the most manipulative person I have seen on Twitch since ZileanOP. He can make all the fake liquid accounts he wants to post on here. This kind of bullcrap gets out eventually. I can't wait for him to get perma banned. It is going to be beautiful.

You definitely went into this with an 'open mind'. You definitely went into this with an 'open mind'.



I think most of the people in this thread going 'Yep, hax' even looking at the replays but just supported the side they want to be true. I think most of the people in this thread going 'Yep, hax' even looking at the replays but just supported the side theyto be true. Massive fan of Axiom eSports | Crotale#992 | Twitter: @Crot4le

wilfriet Profile Joined April 2015 3 Posts #9294 I'm just wondering if avilo is really serious with his accusings, or if he just has a real bad taste of humor lol

codonbyte Profile Blog Joined June 2011 United States 830 Posts Last Edited: 2015-04-12 10:25:16 #9295 On April 12 2015 19:13 wilfriet wrote:

I'm just wondering if avilo is really serious with his accusings, or if he just has a real bad taste of humor lol

Did you see the analysis he did? Two of them, actually. Look, if you disagree with the evidence he presented, that's fine. But you can't deny that he did his fucking homework.



Edit: added a comma. Did you see the analysis he did? Two of them, actually. Look, if you disagree with the evidence he presented, that's fine. But you can't deny that he did his fucking homework.Edit: added a comma.

Souldrinkah Profile Joined July 2011 Sweden 48 Posts #9296 The accusations of avilo are very well detailed and if Huk was willing to send avilo the replay maybe he could weigh in on what he thinks?

I guess only streamers have beta access? we TL members can't really refute/agree with avilo's suspicions since we can't watch the replay.

showstealer1829 Profile Blog Joined May 2014 Australia 3100 Posts #9297 I suspect that avilo does believe what he's saying, he wouldn't have made such exhaustive analytical posts otherwise and believe me I have no time for Winter either.



That said. It's hard not to join the mob and break out the ol' "You funny avilo. You tell funny joke" sarcasm. It doesn't look like hacking to me from what I see There is no understanding. There is only Choya. Choya is the way. Choya is Love. Choya is Life. Has is the Light in the Protoss Dark and Nightmare is his chosen Acolyte

Souldrinkah Profile Joined July 2011 Sweden 48 Posts #9298 You need the replay to review the details properly. You can't see rally points and specific things as easily if you only watch the stream.

WinterStarcraft Profile Joined June 2012 United States 109 Posts #9299 Everything up to 11 minutes of the previous "evidence" is completely wrong and obviously so. Past that I did not watch because if your first 10 claims are wrong I can't be bothered to spend 2 hours going over a game I LOST.

wilfriet Profile Joined April 2015 3 Posts Last Edited: 2015-04-12 11:07:26 #9300 On April 12 2015 19:23 codonbyte wrote:

Show nested quote +

On April 12 2015 19:13 wilfriet wrote:

I'm just wondering if avilo is really serious with his accusings, or if he just has a real bad taste of humor lol

Did you see the analysis he did? Two of them, actually. Look, if you disagree with the evidence he presented, that's fine. But you can't deny that he did his fucking homework.



Edit: added a comma. Did you see the analysis he did? Two of them, actually. Look, if you disagree with the evidence he presented, that's fine. But you can't deny that he did his fucking homework.Edit: added a comma.



I did actually watch both of his videos where he analysed the replays and I watched the videos of Winter at the same time to see if these things are true. And yes, he does seem to have a lot of proof, but all of his "arguments" are still based upon nothing. He clearly failed his homework I did actually watch both of his videos where he analysed the replays and I watched the videos of Winter at the same time to see if these things are true. And yes, he does seem to have a lot of proof, but all of his "arguments" are still based upon nothing. He clearly failed his homework

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