Alon (aka Mr.Cynic)

Ok...billypligrim - I think this IS a conflict of definitions. I would not classify the hope one gets instinctively as faith. I agree that love is often dependant on hope but I don't think 'a leap of faith' must be made to go for what your feelings tell you - especially if you feel love because you have spent a great deal of time with someone and slowly fallen with love with them, as you have got to know them. The main disagreement I have with you is what the word 'faith' means. I understand it to be belief without a need for logic or evidence. I also feel that when one says someone has 'faith' their beliefs are pretty set and they would be reluctant to change them.

If you define faith as hope then maybe it is what defines our humanity. But maybe it is the diversity of will that defines our humanity? Or maybe they both do .

Again - I say faith interferes with the truth, but not if faith is hope. If faith is what I interpreted to be above, I stick to that statement.

I don't believe strongly but am unsure of other powers. I don't think I can state that there are such invisible powers at the moment.

As I said in an earlier post, "I won't agree that all atheists make this leap'O'faith". Yes - maybe many atheists made a leap of faith from belief/agnosticism. But not all do. I don't think it's right to say that all atheists do nor is it correct that all atheists have faith in their beliefs.



Now, The Mummy - I did not say I have no "respect for people who do believe". I said (about believers) "Unfortunately I do not respect their beliefs much. I can't do much about it". I did not say that I hold little respect for those who do believe but that I have found no way to respect their views. I've talked to a few more zenful than I (well actually, most people are ) but billypilgrim is one. She respects all beliefs. I don't. Maybe I will eventually but I have found no way to at the moment.



GB, I would not call an assumption based on logic that you dare do doubt "faith". I disagree that assumption is another word for "leap of faith". I also don't think that faith is simply "a strong conviction".

The belief that the Earth was flat was a very good assumption. The earth looked pretty flat and they had no way to prove otherwise. BUT, they had faith in their assumption. Those who stated contrary to popular belief were branded heretics.

"Similarly, atheists believe there is no god, and (most) do not question it." - maybe most atheists do not question it and maybe then they can be said to be faithful. But I do question it. I try and test my beliefs. I still believe them but I dare to put doubt against them. I'm not agnostic though as I still believe strongly but allow for change.

I don't expect information to come along and prove there is an almighty deity. But I do make sure that just because I don't expect it I shouldn't be unwilling to accept it. If there is a God and he gets pretty pissed off by those that didn't believe in him/her, I should definitely be one that goes off to eternal damnation . I have no faith in what will happen once I am dead and finally, I hope that the origin of life was entirely natural but I don't have faith that it was.

*Looks worried at the long posts that may follow this one*