Sunday's episode of Outlander showed us how much of a hold Jamie’s ghost still has on Claire—even when she’s with her first husband. Try as she might to bring physical intimacy back into her marriage with Frank, something holds her back, and Frank calls her out on it. “Claire, when I’m with you, I’m with you,” he tells her. “But you’re with him.”

When we caught up with actress Caitriona Balfe on the Outlander set in Cape Town, South Africa—where she was shooting a top-secret, spoiler-heavy scene that we’ll fill you in on as the season progresses—we convinced her to take a break, snack on an orange, and share her thoughts on the status of the Claire/Frank relationship.

For someone who is supposed to look 20 years older, you’ve aged well. Your hair doesn’t even look gray anymore…

[Laughs] It’s the weather here! It’s a really good town. But yeah, Claire does a few little beauty things, to try to make herself feel a little younger, as we all do. She dyes her hair!

Writer/producer Matt Roberts was just explaining how in the first few episodes, the scenes with Claire and Frank in Boston would be very Who’s Afraid of Virginia Woolf?

Sam Heughan and Caitriona Balfe Kathryn Wirsing

I think when we all read the book, and figured out which scenes we’d do, we were talking about that play. Even Gary Steele, our production designer. I remember walking in to see Gary, and I was like, “I’ve been thinking it’s a bit like…” and he said, “… like this?” And he had pictures of the play! And I was like, “Yes!” So we were all on the same page. It was just something about that confined space, and the two people who are just suffocating in their own dysfunction. Edward Albee does such an amazing job in that play of describing a dysfunctional marriage: two people who have disappointed each other so much, and then it starts to fester.

And I think that’s an accurate description of Claire and Frank. They’re both good people, but circumstances have dictated that they fall into this pattern. They just keep missing each other. For Claire, Frank will never be able to give her what Jamie gave her. He’ll never be able to meet that expectation, ever. And for Frank, Claire has abandoned him in so many ways. I’m sure he feels a lot of resentment over that. We also wanted some moments in these first few episodes where there was still the possibility of them overcoming these obstacles, because you can’t just do one note, as if everything’s terrible, terrible, terrible. There’s no way they could have lived together for 20 years with something that’s only bad and miserable.

Which is why they try to reestablish their sex life. Which almost works, except for Frank being upset about Claire closing her eyes. Why do you think she does that?

I don’t believe that Claire would be so cruel as to try and conjure up Jamie just to get through an intimate moment with Frank. I think that’s very cruel, and I don’t think Claire is that cruel. I saw it more as trying to shut things out, trying to be in the moment, trying to quiet those demons in a way, and she can’t. She just can’t. It’s too painful. And Black Jack, that’s part of the thing she’s trying to shut out. I think it’s all interlinked. I mean, Frank was such a kind and strong presence before she ever even met Black Jack, and that image of Black Jack will never replace Frank—Frank was Claire’s first love, and she knows his goodness—but when she first came back, the time since she last saw Black Jack has been so short, and it was easier for those memories to linger. Probably over time, the image of Black Jack has been replaced by something else. I think she would have a hard time allowing her daughter to be around Frank so much if Jack was so present in her mind, you know? She wouldn’t be able to stay.

But I also think she’s so scared that if she did look in Frank’s eyes, Frank would see the truth. He would know. He’s a very perceptive person. It’s hard to lie to somebody, given that eyes are the windows of the soul, and she’s terrified of him knowing, because she’s really trying hard to move on. Jamie’s dead. There’s no reason for her to sit and wallow in it. She has a daughter. She has the potential for happiness again. I think any woman would try and reach out for that. That’s why she’s reaching over to Frank. But it’s just beyond her, beyond her capabilities. That’s the tragedy of it.

Frank (Tobias Menzies) and Claire Randall (Caitriona Balfe) STARZ

This leads to their new arrangement, the separate beds. No more sex for these two.

She does love Frank. She loves him on a certain level, but it’s just not the way he wants her to love him. She knows she can’t give Frank what he needs, but she also knows he won’t leave, because of Brianna. It’s a struggle sometimes…. The show got known for its sex scenes so much, but we’re telling a love story, and the sex is very integral to telling that story. It shows how they connect, or in this case, how they don’t. Yes, people want the steaminess, but it has to have a point. Otherwise, it’s just gratuitous, you know? I think we’re better than that. [Laughs]

In the books, Claire and Frank have a slightly different dynamic. They do experience intimacy in some areas.

There’s a scene in the book that is one of my favorites, and I was so devastated in the beginning that it was changed, although it worked so well the way we did it. I remember telling Diana Gabaldon that what I loved about how she constructed a particular scene was that Claire and Frank were in bed together, spooning, because it was cold. They were so comfortable around each other, they constructed this convenient half-intimacy. They could be physically close, and yet emotionally so many miles apart. I thought the way Diana did that was so beautiful. But I also love the way we did it. And that’s why we have two different mediums for people to appreciate the story!

At least in your version, there’s more of a reason to root for Frank! He’s not cheating on Claire here...

I mean, would anybody blame him if he did? [Laughs] There are certain aspects of book Frank—he’s definitely slightly racist in the book, and that’s not a quality that should be admired—but the whole cheating thing? I personally couldn’t blame him. If I were in that situation, if I were the unwilling party in an intimate relationship, I would say, “Go find your happiness wherever you can, because it won’t be here!”

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