Veren Profile Joined October 2011 Sweden 9 Posts #1 The ones who stuck around SC2 for quite some time will remember that Pylons used to have a larger power range. That was nerfed in 2011 I believe to address problematic things like 4-gate/cannon-rush pylon positioning being very safe and still being able to warp to the high ground.



Then came the Mothership Core, and with that the ability for Protoss to have early high ground vision. For this very reason — correct me if I'm wrong — the Protoss Pylon received a second nerf making it unable to power the high ground so that you wouldn't get 4-gates unstoppable by FFs or Terran walls, for example.



Given that this is a fact, doesn't it make the Pylon shorter range redundant? It's a small detail now and definitely not game-changing, but it helps: it helps your building positioning, your simcity and base arrangement, makes Protoss slightly less susceptible to Artosis Pylon loss, and also helps general in-base vision (by making it possible to spread the Pylons out a bit more).

fighter2_40 Profile Blog Joined December 2010 United States 420 Posts #2 ya can we get increased pylon range back? my toss building placement at base always looks like a shitstorm compared to when I play terran



ZerO_0 Profile Joined October 2011 United States 137 Posts #3 Well it can make cannon rushes stronger possibly but I agree we should get the larger power radius back. It's true it won't be game changing or anything but would definitely help with building placement and vision in and out of base. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence then, is not an act, but a habit. Aristotle

ohampatu Profile Joined July 2010 United States 1448 Posts #4 Since they messed up the nexus and now probes get stuck at the corners when they didn't in the past (this has been proved in other threads with proof), I agree completely. Like you said, the nerf can be undone since it is no longer able to warp up to high ground. This would make building around the nexus so much easier I am become death, for I am the destroyer of worlds.....You will be missed KT Violet!!!

00higgo Profile Joined May 2013 Australia 119 Posts #5 Ive had no issues with pylon radius, i guess you could change it but i personally see no need.

HolyArrow Profile Blog Joined August 2010 United States 7104 Posts #6 If the Pylon radius nerf was solely to nerf strats involving using the high-ground power mechanic that no longer exists then I agree that the radius nerf should be reverted. It would just make general building management a bit less annoying.

Belha Profile Joined December 2010 Italy 2611 Posts #7 On June 01 2013 12:28 ohampatu wrote:

Since they messed up the nexus and now probes get stuck at the corners when they didn't in the past (this has been proved in other threads with proof), I agree completely. Like you said, the nerf can be undone since it is no longer able to warp up to high ground. This would make building around the nexus so much easier

Tbh, is way more pathetic the probe-stuck issue, they should fix that asap, and is been around since Hots beta... Tbh, is way more pathetic the probe-stuck issue, they should fix that asap, and is been around since Hots beta... Chicken gank op

gobbledydook Profile Joined October 2012 Australia 1813 Posts #8 On June 01 2013 12:43 Belha wrote:

Show nested quote +

On June 01 2013 12:28 ohampatu wrote:

Since they messed up the nexus and now probes get stuck at the corners when they didn't in the past (this has been proved in other threads with proof), I agree completely. Like you said, the nerf can be undone since it is no longer able to warp up to high ground. This would make building around the nexus so much easier

Tbh, is way more pathetic the probe-stuck issue, they should fix that asap, and is been around since Hots beta... Tbh, is way more pathetic the probe-stuck issue, they should fix that asap, and is been around since Hots beta...

or just don't build around the nexus. or just don't build around the nexus. I am a dirty Protoss bullshit abuser

Rorschach Profile Joined May 2010 United States 623 Posts #9 If I had the chance I was planning on asking DK this very question at the upcoming blizzcon... En Taro Adun, Executor!

Rorschach Profile Joined May 2010 United States 623 Posts Last Edited: 2013-06-01 03:51:40 #10 On June 01 2013 12:27 ZerO_0 wrote:

Well it can make cannon rushes stronger possibly but I agree we should get the larger power radius back. It's true it won't be game changing or anything but would definitely help with building placement and vision in and out of base.



Low ground pylon for cannon rushing is 100% dead in HoTS with the powerfield changes. If you lose to an in base pylon its your own fault even if the minerals are used to prevent a probe surround.



Would love to see this change (pylon radius) reverted since 4gate is no longer a thing.

Low ground pylon for cannon rushing is 100% dead in HoTS with the powerfield changes. If you lose to an in base pylon its your own fault even if the minerals are used to prevent a probe surround.Would love to see this change (pylon radius) reverted since 4gate is no longer a thing. En Taro Adun, Executor!

ZerO_0 Profile Joined October 2011 United States 137 Posts #11 On June 01 2013 12:49 Rorschach wrote:

Show nested quote +

On June 01 2013 12:27 ZerO_0 wrote:

Well it can make cannon rushes stronger possibly but I agree we should get the larger power radius back. It's true it won't be game changing or anything but would definitely help with building placement and vision in and out of base.



Low ground pylon for cannon rushing is 100% dead in HoTS with the powerfield changes. If you lose to an in base pylon its your own fault even if the minerals are used to prevent a probe surround.



Would love to see this change (pylon radius) reverted since 4gate is no longer a thing.

Low ground pylon for cannon rushing is 100% dead in HoTS with the powerfield changes. If you lose to an in base pylon its your own fault even if the minerals are used to prevent a probe surround.Would love to see this change (pylon radius) reverted since 4gate is no longer a thing.



That's true completely forgot about that lol. Haven't really been playing HoTs all that much.

That's true completely forgot about that lol. Haven't really been playing HoTs all that much. We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence then, is not an act, but a habit. Aristotle

SpiritAshura Profile Joined March 2007 United States 1193 Posts Last Edited: 2013-06-01 04:09:53 #12 On June 01 2013 12:45 gobbledydook wrote:

Show nested quote +

On June 01 2013 12:43 Belha wrote:

On June 01 2013 12:28 ohampatu wrote:

Since they messed up the nexus and now probes get stuck at the corners when they didn't in the past (this has been proved in other threads with proof), I agree completely. Like you said, the nerf can be undone since it is no longer able to warp up to high ground. This would make building around the nexus so much easier

Tbh, is way more pathetic the probe-stuck issue, they should fix that asap, and is been around since Hots beta... Tbh, is way more pathetic the probe-stuck issue, they should fix that asap, and is been around since Hots beta...

or just don't build around the nexus. or just don't build around the nexus.

Building around the nexus has advantages of keeping zerglings off of the nexus to minimize how much building surface area is there. It does have a purpose.



Edit: Zealots as well to a lesser extent, tho the zergling minimizing surface area is most important imo.



It would be helpful (mostly to newer/lower tier players), it is entirely avoidable with a VERY deliberate placement of your buildings...but honestly, how many people really think about this?



I wish blizzard would give us protoss players the range back, but I doubt it will ever happen... Building around the nexus has advantages of keeping zerglings off of the nexus to minimize how much building surface area is there. It does have a purpose.Edit: Zealots as well to a lesser extent, tho the zergling minimizing surface area is most important imo.It would be helpful (mostly to newer/lower tier players), it is entirely avoidable with a VERY deliberate placement of your buildings...but honestly, how many people really think about this?I wish blizzard would give us protoss players the range back, but I doubt it will ever happen...

IcedBacon Profile Joined May 2011 Canada 828 Posts #13 On June 01 2013 12:49 Rorschach wrote:

Show nested quote +

On June 01 2013 12:27 ZerO_0 wrote:

Well it can make cannon rushes stronger possibly but I agree we should get the larger power radius back. It's true it won't be game changing or anything but would definitely help with building placement and vision in and out of base.



Low ground pylon for cannon rushing is 100% dead in HoTS with the powerfield changes. If you lose to an in base pylon its your own fault even if the minerals are used to prevent a probe surround.



Would love to see this change (pylon radius) reverted since 4gate is no longer a thing.

Low ground pylon for cannon rushing is 100% dead in HoTS with the powerfield changes. If you lose to an in base pylon its your own fault even if the minerals are used to prevent a probe surround.Would love to see this change (pylon radius) reverted since 4gate is no longer a thing.



Not true. Cannon rushes are WAY too easy to perform compared to how hard it can potentially be to stop. An example is that guy cannon rushing to high masters and losing every game where he doesn't deal significant damage with it because he has < diamond macro. Not true. Cannon rushes are WAY too easy to perform compared to how hard it can potentially be to stop. An example is that guy cannon rushing to high masters and losing every game where he doesn't deal significant damage with it because he has < diamond macro. "I went Zerg because Artosis is a douchebag." -IdrA

willstertben Profile Joined May 2013 369 Posts Last Edited: 2013-06-01 04:10:32 #14 some changes are made because of one specific reason and then turn out to be good in general, having lots of other nice side effects..

immortal +1 range was implemented specifically to make holding 1-1-1 easier but as a side effect it gave protoss a good

pre-colossus option against roaches as well and made immortals much, much better against marauders (remember when 1 marauder could kill an immortal without ever getting shot once?).

pylons with old radius would make massive warpins way too easy to do, shorten the distance of reinforcements coming to battle, would buff cannon rushes by a HUGE amount and i'm sure there are other effects i am missing here.





Veren Profile Joined October 2011 Sweden 9 Posts #15 On June 01 2013 13:08 willstertben wrote:

pylons with old radius would make massive warpins way too easy to do, shorten the distance of reinforcements coming to battle, would buff cannon rushes by a HUGE amount and i'm sure there are other effects i am missing here.





I don't see how a +1 range on power radius would shorten the distance of reinforcements to battle… really it just shorten by one unit… perhaps you can just put the Pylon a tiny bit forward and achieve the same effect?



As for the huge buff to cannon rushes, I am not really sure of what Cannon Rushes you are talking about; if it is about cannon rushing early zerg expansion, this makes no difference. If you are speaking of cannon rushes in base, I don't think this could ever become a realy threat. Besides, Pylon had increased range for the whole beta and for almost one year after WoL came out, and I don't remember people complaining about cannon rushes being unstoppable those days.



I don't see how a +1 range on power radius would shorten the distance of reinforcements to battle… really it just shorten by one unit… perhaps you can just put the Pylon a tiny bit forward and achieve the same effect?As for thebuff to cannon rushes, I am not really sure of what Cannon Rushes you are talking about; if it is about cannon rushing early zerg expansion, this makes no difference. If you are speaking of cannon rushes in base, I don't think this could ever become a realy threat. Besides, Pylon had increased range for the whole beta and for almost one year after WoL came out, and I don't remember people complaining about cannon rushes being unstoppable those days. That's true completely forgot about that lol.



Yep I brought it up because I think such a small change just got forgotten. Yep I brought it up because I think such a small change just got forgotten.

Gamegene Profile Blog Joined June 2011 United States 8300 Posts #16 bring back the 100% return on bunkers Throw on your favorite jacket and you're good to roll. Stroll through the trees and let your miseries go.

Veren Profile Joined October 2011 Sweden 9 Posts Last Edited: 2013-06-01 04:30:10 #17 On June 01 2013 13:21 Gamegene wrote:

bring back the 100% return on bunkers



Not sure why this is relevant. I am not really saying « bring back that good ol' thing that we miss » (in which case it would probably be the Reaver, or the Khaydarin Amulet ).



I am saying that the change was made in order to address a specific issue. Since the issue disappeared, the change could also be reverted. Not sure why this is relevant. I am not really saying(in which case it would probably be the, or the).I am saying that

Holo82 Profile Joined April 2013 Austria 107 Posts #18 bring back rax before depot, bring back instant emp, bring back siegetank shells dealing 60 dmg baseline, bring back bunker build time, bring back reactor buildtime, bring back stimresearch time, bring back blabla. The game has become better since 2011, and thats for a reason.

partydude89 Profile Blog Joined August 2012 1835 Posts #19 On June 01 2013 13:31 Holo82 wrote:

bring back rax before depot, bring back instant emp, bring back siegetank shells dealing 60 dmg baseline, bring back bunker build time, bring back reactor buildtime, bring back stimresearch time, bring back blabla. The game has become better since 2011, and thats for a reason.



please tell me exactly how a plyon range increase would make the game worse, since that is the exact change being discussed. please tell me exactly how a plyon range increase would make the game worse, since that is the exact change being discussed. #1 Official Hack Fan|#2 Bomber behind Wintex.|Curious|Life|Flash|TY|Cure|Maru|sOs|Jin Air Green Wings fighting!|SBENU Fighting!|

willstertben Profile Joined May 2013 369 Posts #20 there are other implications that change has that you just choose to ignore.

by that same logic we could revert immortal +1 range (1-1-1 doesn't exist anymore), infested terrans not getting upgrades (infestors can't be zerg core unit anymore) and lots of other changes.

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