Reserved sorry at work but i disagree with Adam reading of dj 18

Nice, the simple fact to say that you disagree get you downvoted .

Well never mind tring to help make a guide better or accurate, after all that is not the goal of guide right ?

First i'd like to say that Adam Burrfoot's work is needed and impressive, well written and in depth.

But as i stated, i think, that he made a wrong interpretation of what was said in the DJ and right from the start.

The part of the DJ we are talking about is the one starting at : "Claims"

It says that "to claim a noble title, you need to have a casus belli", noble titles are and the DJ state it Count, Duke and King, aristocratic "title" or "position" are not part of nobility : "The Nobility are the Counts, Dukes, and Kings."

So a casus belli is needed to claim a noble title not an aristocratic one. especially the Fame and wealth CB as stated in their description : "Casus Belli from Fame

Each noble title has its own fame. Legendary for Kings, Exalted for Dukes, and Renowned for Counts.

If you can reach the level of fame just below a noble title: Famous for Counts, Renowned for Dukes, and Exalted for Kings, you can automatically claim Casus Belli on the basis of being famous."

Which is the opposit of what Adam says : "Fame and Fortune Casus Bellis can only be utilized to claim an aristocratic title."

That is why i say i do not agree with Adam's reading of the DJ.

The DJ state that CB are to claim noble titles, that Fame and Wealth CB ar only available to non noble, that means that Nobles can not access a Fame or Wealth casus belli. And no one can get a casus belli against an aristocrate! NO ONE, neither a noble nor an other aristocrate nor a landed gentry or a non landed gentry, no one!

Carefull, i am not saying there are no ways to depose an aristocrate, i just read the DJ and say that casus belli are for noble title only.

So back to reading the DJ, "There are three ways you can go about getting a Casus Belli: Favor, Fame, and Wealth. Note: the last two only apply to non-Nobles. Once you become a noble, only favor can be used."

The DJ here talk about how to get a CB and it says that Favor is the only way to get a CB once you are a Noble, not that it is the only way to claim a noble title as Adam says.

That are the main points where i disagree in

What is a Casus Belli?

and so they have repercutions on the other chapters.

I am a commoner, how do I get a Casus Belli?

New Settlement Leaders

You do not need any CB with a new settlement or with a growing one. If your settlement reach the size of a town, the minimum population and the requested buildings you can write a charter with the other elders and go to the count to have it sign it and doing so register the new town, turning you into a Mayor.

link from the DJ : "Now, once you get to the point of having a town there is a Town Charter that is filled out. The person "in charge" of the town is the Mayor and everyone else are members of the Town Council. This is similar to Guild Leaders and Officers in other games. Generally speaking, the Mayor of the town will be the person who owns the most land under the town. But it doesn't have to be that way. Whoever registers the town charter with the county is the Mayor, regardless of whether they actually have the most land or not."

Depose the Huge Jerk Face Magistrate / Baron!

That part is unknown, it was mentionned a long time ago that the elders of a settlement may be able to vote out a mayor but it has never been confirmed officially into a DJ or a transcripted chat with a dev (as far as i know)

I am a Mayor / Magistrate / Baron / Baroness how do I get a Casus Belli?

New County Independence!

independence is presented in the DJ but have been talked about quite a lot since then and was pending revue last time i checked.

Anyway how it was presented in the DJ, to try to creat a new county and earn your independence from your count you need to be a mayor/baron. the reason for it is that to declare your independence you need to build a county seat of power in your town.

As a mayor , you are not a noble so you have access to the 3 kinds of CB not just favor, all you need is a CB and to build the seat of power, and be sucsessfull !

Depose the Huge Jerk Face Count Dude Thinggy!

Same as above, except you do not need to build and protect your own seat of power, but need to conquer the one of the count you want to usurp.

I actually don’t want to take a Count Title, I want to run multiple cities!

It is not mentionned in the DJ, but was addressed by Caspian on talks about account merging, you can only rule from one place, means you can only have one aristocratic "title/position" and as such you'll never directly rule over several settlements (of town size or larger)

I am a Count / Countess how do I get a Casus Belli?

New Duchy Independence!

Same as a county's independence, at least as it was presented in the DJ, but that is were the thing was put on hold, because SBS said that they do not want extra small duchies, so they are thinking of limitations to prevent a single small county to start a new duchy.

So in fact for that one how Adam's presenting it might verry well be quite close to what will happen.

Depose the Huge Jerk Face Duke Duder McThinggy!

Nothing to say, 100% agree with adam.

I actually don’t want to take a Duke Title, I want to run multiple Counties!

As to the subject of this thread, aka Casus Belli, The DJ do not say that you can get a casus belli for a same noble tier as yours.

The exemples given are all depicting a lower tier going up on the tier ladder. I'm not saying it is not possible, i do really think it make sens that a noble be allowed to CB an other noble of same tier, i just say it is not told into the DJ!

I am a Duke / Duchess how do I get a Casus Belli?

New Kingdom Independence!

As for the count, Adam might be close to what will go out of the reviewing of what was described into the DJ

Depose the Huge Jerk Face King McDuder Thing-a-dilly-bob!

100% agreement

I actually don’t want to take a King Title, I want to run multiple Duchies!

Same as the count

I am a King / Queen how do I get a Casus Belli?

New Empire Independence!

same as duke and count if we ever get to that level Adam should be close to the truth.

Depose the Huge Jerk Face Emperor Flaming McDuder Thing-a-dilly-bob-o!

1) 100% ok, 2) i disagree, you'd need support of 66.66% of all kingdoms in your Empire not the server.

I actually don’t want to take an Emperor Title, I want to run multiple Kingdoms!

same as duke and count

So far, we have only talked about Domestic Expansion, what about Foreign Expansion, what if I want to take land and titles from other Kingdoms?

"As of right now there is absolutely no official detail on foreign expansion that has been officially released! Anyone who is making plans for foreign expansion right now, has not got a clue what they are talking about because there is literally absolutely no official details that have been given on how that will work! Isn’t that exciting!"

100% TRUE, i might have a different reading of the DJ on all the previous points that one i agree totally!

Alright I Declared Casus Belli the Title is Mine Now Right?..... Right?

28 Days?!? That’s a long time, any way to shorten that?

Adam is right, but on the part about the ring stealing, i wad understood that the ring if not given by the forfeiting noble was going to be stealable only if the noble had no heir.

What happens if you lose you ask?

100% Ok

Dang… that hurts… good thing that’s not going to happen. What happens when I win!?

100% OK

But wait there is more! What happens to the guy / gal I just deposed / took a chunk of land from?

The first part about independence is OK but for the second part i have once more to disagree. The DJ says :"An alternative to setting up a new county of your own, which requires a significant amount of land, is to just march into the County Seat, and claim it as your own. If you can stay in the county seat for 28 days, you become the new Count. If you're killed…. well.... Yeah. You lost. No building needs to be destroyed in order to prevent your coup from succeeding."

If you suceeded into your conquest of your lord seat of power, you have to hold it for 28 days. At any point from the moment you start your coup to the end of the 28th day, if you die your coup fail!

Lastly

One point that is grey to me is the ability for a noble to CB a lower tier noble, as i already said about same tier CB nothing is written in the DJ about that.

PS: I once again want to say that The work and goal of Adam Burrfoot here are astonishing and wonderfull, i'm pointing out a diferent understanding of the only official source we have.