voxframe

join:2010-08-02 voxframe Member Cable Nazis... Grab a tissue



Stumbled across this and figured it was worth it for anyone (Myself included) who loves a nice cabling job.



This isn't my work, wish it was.Stumbled across this and figured it was worth it for anyone (Myself included) who loves a nice cabling job. »www.youtube.com/watch?v= ··· =related



Yeah they used zip ties, but let's be honest, it works beautifully here and won't be a problem. Yeah they used zip ties, but let's be honest, it works beautifully here and won't be a problem.



alphapointe

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MVM

join:2002-02-10

Columbia, MO alphapointe MVM God damn! That's AWESOME!



Someone takes GREAT pride in their work...



workablob

join:2004-06-09

Houston, TX workablob to voxframe

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Oh Sweet Clam!



Fap Fap Fap.



Nice post mate!



Dave



liht

Acryllicht

join:2000-07-11

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Some serious OCD going on there. Not a single cable overlapping another. All in a line. Perfectly spaced.

Either they ran one cable at a time, or they had TONS of time to do this. I'd love to know what company put that cabling in.

cramer

Premium Member

join:2007-04-10

Raleigh, NC Westell 6100

Cisco PIX 501

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(For the record, it's not difficult to do that, but it is tedious and time consuming. There are tools for pulling cable bundles like that.) Ok, now show us the rats nest on the other side of those patch panels.(For the record, it's not difficult to do that, but it is tedious and time consuming. There are tools for pulling cable bundles like that.)

TheMG

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Canada TheMG to voxframe

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In a way, this reminds me of aircraft wiring, where all the wires have to be neatly bundled and routed, tied at specific intervals, observing proper bend radius, etc.

Hahausuck

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join:2003-12-14 Hahausuck to voxframe

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I can overlook the zip ties, based on workmanship. Oh man that looks GOOD.I can overlook the zip ties, based on workmanship.



LazMan

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join:2003-03-26

Welland, ON 1 recommendation LazMan to voxframe

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Sad part it, 15 years ago, that wasn't impressive; that was just standard...



When I started as an installer at Nortel, there were rules about where stiches were placed on cable frames, how cables were run, etc. There was never a cross, a diver, a roll; it all looked like that. If your STRING rolled or crossed over, the quality man cut it all, and you did it again.



But we also used to get a year to build a new switch - it's done in 3 months now; and looks like shiz-nit. Anyways...



That said - that's some seriously good looking work. Someone should be proud!

cramer

Premium Member

join:2007-04-10

Raleigh, NC Westell 6100

Cisco PIX 501

cramer Premium Member said by LazMan: Sad part it, 15 years ago, that wasn't impressive; that was just standard... And they didn't use zip ties or velcro... it was all beautifully cable laced. Sadly, it's now a lost art. (just finding waxed twine is a pain.)



LazMan

Premium Member

join:2003-03-26

Welland, ON LazMan Premium Member said by cramer: And they didn't use zip ties or velcro... it was all beautifully cable laced. Sadly, it's now a lost art. (just finding waxed twine is a pain.)





BTW - Lived in Raleigh back in '01 - working for Sprint up in Wake Forest... One of the nicest places I've ever been! Don't know about in the states - but lacing twine is still pretty easy to come by up here... Of course, finding someone that knows how to use it, that's a different story...BTW - Lived in Raleigh back in '01 - working for Sprint up in Wake Forest... One of the nicest places I've ever been!

tomdlgns

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join:2003-03-21 tomdlgns to cramer

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said by cramer: Ok, now show us the rats nest on the other side of those patch panels.



(For the record, it's not difficult to do that, but it is tedious and time consuming. There are tools for pulling cable bundles like that.)





that cabling job is nice. post some of those tools you speak of.that cabling job is nice.



jmich

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join:2001-08-28

Toms River, NJ jmich to voxframe

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Very nice. Vendors are now saying that lacing and piping cable amplifies cross-talk potential and that random cabling is better for performance. Discuss.

tomdlgns

Premium Member

join:2003-03-21 tomdlgns Premium Member with random cables going every direction there is less distance between them which means less of a chance for crosstalk.



when the cables are laying on top of e/o and touching, it allows for a greater chance of crosstalk



that is how i read that post.



alphapointe

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Bollocks... If there is any more xtalk, it's a couple hundredths of a db. If this was a real problem, Bell wouldn't have done lacing, etc. for the past hundred years with no problems.

tomdlgns

Premium Member

join:2003-03-21 1 recommendation tomdlgns Premium Member i agree. no matter what, someone will always argue the opposite.

Hahausuck

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join:2003-12-14 1 edit 2 recommendations Hahausuck to tomdlgns

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I think that's a lazy excuse because the installers are generally lazy.



The last job I worked in the field on, the data comm guys stopped and watched me several times while I laced. They never had seen it before. The electricians had seen it only in black and white photos while in trade schools. There was one hvac guy who had been around the block a few times in his days and he knew exactly what it was. He commented how good it was to see someone who still did that sort of work and it had been over 20 years since he'd seen it done.



There are a few of us who still do it. It is seriously time consuming but when your cabling has to be perfect, it's the only way.

cramer

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join:2007-04-10

Raleigh, NC Westell 6100

Cisco PIX 501

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potential, yes. Reality, not so much. Cat6 has issues at 10G over longer runs, and yes, bundles amplify the problem. That's why there's a cat6A -- there will be no meaningful crosstalk at rated bandwidth over full 100m runs. (increased pair spacing, and thicker cable shell... voila the cables cannot get close enough to create a problem.)



If you're really worried about it, fork over the cash for shielded cable. For the record, I've only had to use shielded cable twice... once in a radio station, and once in a UL Labs test cage. (we still failed, btw.)



DarkLogix

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said by alphapointe: Bollocks... If there is any more xtalk, it's a couple hundredths of a db. If this was a real problem, Bell wouldn't have done lacing, etc. for the past hundred years with no problems.





5 sheilds, 1 around each of the 4 pairs, and 1 over all 4 pairs, plus a proper STP RJ45 end not the normal UTP RJ45 that you normally see.



then with the shields grounded theres no chance of xtalk between cables.



However I'll say this phone lines 100 years ago were less likely to have issue with xtalk than gig or 10g over copper If it were a problem then just use the unofficialy named CAT7 cable.5 sheilds, 1 around each of the 4 pairs, and 1 over all 4 pairs, plus a proper STP RJ45 end not the normal UTP RJ45 that you normally see.then with the shields grounded theres no chance of xtalk between cables.However I'll say this phone lines 100 years ago were less likely to have issue with xtalk than gig or 10g over copper

DarkLogix DarkLogix to cramer

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said by cramer: potential, yes. Reality, not so much. Cat6 has issues at 10G over longer runs, and yes, bundles amplify the problem. That's why there's a cat6A -- there will be no meaningful crosstalk at rated bandwidth over full 100m runs. (increased pair spacing, and thicker cable shell... voila the cables cannot get close enough to create a problem.)



If you're really worried about it, fork over the cash for shielded cable. For the record, I've only had to use shielded cable twice... once in a radio station, and once in a UL Labs test cage. (we still failed, btw.)





And if RF is still something to worry about go fiber. If you wanta go to the insane level then use CAT7 + 1 cable per steel conduit.And if RF is still something to worry about go fiber.



jmich

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join:2001-08-28

Toms River, NJ jmich Premium Member Agreed. The instructors from Fluke and ADC both mentioned this issue in recent VAR classes. I agree that well-installed networks work better and there's a great deal of pride to be had in doing a nice job...time allowing. Another issue they mentioned from bundling is heat potential. Some PoE devices do draw a decent amperage. Not an issue in a DC but enterprise wiring.

cramer

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join:2007-04-10

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cramer Premium Member



[PS: It's worth noting your switch or midspan would need a 750W or 1700W power supply *just for PoE* to run such a setup.] Interesting points. PoE would be a special case. Using the first chart google points out [ link ], 100m of 24AWG (worst case, cat6 is supposed to be 22) wire would have 8.41976ohms of resistance. (PoE uses 2 parallel pairs.) 802.3af specs 15.4W (350mA) and 802.3at 34.2W (600mA.) So, a max "af" device would have just over 1W in the cable, and "at" just over 3W. If you put 48 runs in one conduit, they were all pulling full power, and they were all 100m... (an unlikely case) that would be a 50W or 146W pipe. (31 and 92 for 22AWG) That'll get toasty if there's no air moving around it. (BTW, I've seen power conduits like that, but never any data wiring.)[PS: It's worth noting your switch or midspan would need a 750W or 1700W power supply *just for PoE* to run such a setup.]

TheMG

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TheMG Premium Member said by cramer: If you put 48 runs in one conduit, they were all pulling full power, and they were all 100m... (an unlikely case) that would be a 50W or 146W pipe. (31 and 92 for 22AWG) That'll get toasty if there's no air moving around it.

That works out to 1.46W per foot, which is unlikely to create any problems. Might feel slightly warm to the touch but that's about it.



DarkLogix

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said by cramer: [PS: It's worth noting your switch or midspan would need a 750W or 1700W power supply *just for PoE* to run such a setup.]





The ones where I work have dual 930watt powersupplies

so in theory 1860watts, I think when one PS fails it cuts the available PoE power down to what one powersupply can do. BTW some POE switches do have thatThe ones where I work have dual 930watt powersuppliesso in theory 1860watts, I think when one PS fails it cuts the available PoE power down to what one powersupply can do.

cramer

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Raleigh, NC cramer Premium Member Yes, but they are exceedingly expensive, rather large, and generate far more heat than all the wiring in the building.

Hahausuck

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join:2003-12-14 Hahausuck Premium Member HIPOE is awesome, but you're right it is horribly expensive even in lower density options.



DarkLogix

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I really don't foresee any issue with POE heating cables.



Ya the heat coming off the switches is far more than all the wiring in the place.



I was just pointing out that some switches do have that kinda wattage, though how much is for POE and how much is for the switches to do normal stuff I'm not sure but I'd bet the bulk is for POE.



battleop

join:2005-09-28

00000 battleop to LazMan

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It took a year to build and it was not touched for 20 years.



howardfine

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What happens when one screws up the length on one of those cables and it doesn't reach or messes up the bend? I guess there's plenty of slack in all that but I imagine, at one point, someone said...oops!