Online with an Emphasis on Balance; Not Optimized for eSports, but for Everyone

A lot of unique features were added for Ultimate’s online mode, like taking and selling opponents’ Smash Tags. Please tell us again about how you went about designing Ultimate’s online mode.

Sakurai: As for online battles, it’d probably be best if you didn’t think too hard about how many wins and losses you have. Even if you have access to both, I think it’d be better to just look at how much you’ve won. Tags were planned to be an extension of that. “That person I won against once… What kind of person were they?” That kind of thing.

I think a lot of people like it! As you accumulate losses, though, it might get more and more tiresome to go online.

Sakurai: Right, and because there are factors like GSP this time, everything is supposed to balance itself out over time. Think about it, if you lost 10 times and only won once, you’d want to quit, wouldn’t you? I don’t want people to come to feel that way. Of course, if you take the time to look you could probably figure out your own win percentage from your battle records. My train of thought was basically to hide that number away and only show the player their win record.

On the other hand, though, there’s Elite Smash battles. How good do you have to be… Or more precisely, how high of a level do you have to be at to participate, would you say?

Sakurai: We’re at the start, so I’d hazard a guess of around one in every few people would be able to participate. The game just launched, though. I’ll take another look at Elite Matches after some time has passed, when it’s a little more intense.

Got it. Personally, I took to it right from the start and wanted to participate in Elite Matches as soon as possible. (laughs)

Sakurai: More often than not people who jumped right into the online mode are players who are more familiar with Smash as a whole, so I imagine it’s easier for them to get into it. (laughs) I feel like it may be easier for casual players to forget about Elite Matches entirely, and that’s fine. Honestly, if it prevented veteran players from being matched up with beginners all the time, that’d be all the better.

Fans have been really excited about online battles, and people have a lot of expectations surrounding Smash Bros. in relation to eSports. People have also been really excited about Nintendo-hosted tournaments – how do you feel about all of that?

Sakurai: Of course, I’m receptive to Smash Bros. being a part of the eSports community, but I feel like that’s not the only good way for people to enjoy the game. It’s understandable why people so enthused with eSports are really preoccupied with the game’s specs and its production, but in the end my only hope is that the game reaches all kinds of people. I really want people who like eSports to be satisfied with the game, but I want beginners to feel the same way as well. I did my best to implement stages and items to that end. I’m of the opinion that there’s no limit to how you should play; I didn’t focus on only improving certain areas of the game.

If you were to only focus on eSports, you wouldn’t have to work so hard at developing things like items and tips. This game’s new items – like the Fake Smash Ball – are really silly, they were a big hit with the editorial department. (laughs)

Sakurai: They are pretty silly. Hitting the Fake Smash Ball and having a good laugh is what Smash Bros. is all about.

Speaking of battles, though, there was a tournament for the game before it had even been released – the players were pretty adept. How was being able to watch it?

Sakurai: You said it best: the players there were already at a high level. There was somebody playing as Richter, and I said: “How are you playing as Richter like you’ve already played as him, even though it’s your first time?” Everybody took to the characters quickly. After release, though, I think people will learn even more about the characters and build their own playstyles and strategies around what they learn. It’s also interesting to see how players use charging and other mechanics as the ace up their sleeves.

In watching the tournament – as a spectator – I felt like it was much more interesting to see them play with items on. I felt like skilled players were also good at using the items they got.

Sakurai: They’re skilled indeed – I’m also fond of seeing how items change how the match unfolds.

One new element of note is the stage morph mechanic. Whether you change the stage or not seems like it has a significant impact on how battles play out.

Sakurai: I think making the stages dynamic like that was a good choice, relatively. It implements big changes to the stages themselves without us having to actually make any minute changes to each individual stage. That in and of itself was a lot of work, mind you; there was a lot we had to do that was necessary towards making it happen. Still, it’s a fun mechanic to see in action.

The Game’s Completion was a Miracle; Mr. Sakurai’s Next Project…?

Smash Bros. – which was once affectionately referred to as Nintendo All-Stars – has long since moved beyond Nintendo; “all-stars” has taken on a variety of meanings. Mr. Sakurai, I’d like to ask you if there’s a correct definition as to what Smash Bros. is to you.

Sakurai: Nothing… In particular. (laughs) If you got rid of the damage accumulation mechanic, it wouldn’t be Smash Bros., would it? But fighting based on stamina is something that exists, so I wouldn’t say it’s that. If you got rid of “smash” inputs, would it still be Smash Bros? I don’t think that’s it either. I feel like it’s more an issue of the game’s “play-feel,” rather than each minute aspect of the game. For instance, if Smash were a fighting game where you could only play one-on-one matches, it’d become just like any other fighting game. I think that you can say that that isn’t Smash Bros.

One could say that Smash Bros. has essentially become your life’s work.

Sakurai: At the very least, if there’s a request from Nintendo for a new Smash Bros. game, that becomes the top priority I have to tackle next. As for the future? I’m not sure…

Even when you were talking about the Spirits not too long ago – including the brief story you told – it made it seem like you weren’t present much.

Sakurai: It’s difficult, it really is. I didn’t think I should leave it to a bunch of other people, but… I wasn’t involved in changing the parameters at all.

Ahh, really!? Not at all?

Sakurai: Not this time. I did things like setting up the initial attack frames, and when we were working on the initial motions, I took care of all the necessary things. As for judging attacks and all things related to balancing, the monitor and fighter planning teams were largely responsible – they took care of it for me.

Is that so? I was under the impression that you were fine-tuning everything directly.

Sakurai: No, no… There are over 70 fighters, after all… (strained smile)

That being the case, did you feel like you could leave it the others like that?

Sakurai: Balancing was based on the degree of strength, and in leaving it up to them it averaged out. If they tried to balance it too much it’d be less interesting, but in the position I was in I had to just offer comments as an onlooker.

When you think about it, though, what you don’t do yourself has changed a lot since the previous games.

Sakurai: Definitely. But as for how the experts play – as expected – I still haven’t been able to reach their level. Even in Smash 4, I put in the parameters myself based on what I gathered from how the monitor team played.

I’m assuming you don’t even want to think about the next entry in the series.

Sakurai: For now, I don’t really need to think about it, so I’m not going to… It’d be fine if there wasn’t another one for about 10 years, don’t you think? (laughs)

The game has enough to it that you’d be able to play it for the next 10 years, for sure. (laughs)

Sakurai: I received something close to an order for a new Smash Bros. since the Switch was coming out – that was this game. I can only wonder if something similar will happen when the next piece of hardware comes out – whether or not I’ll be involved is a separate matter. It’d definitely be hard for me to top this; making “everyone is here” a reality was honestly a miracle – and because of that, I think this is the only time we’ll be able to do it.

It really feels like Ultimate is the definitive game; now that I have it, I feel like I could play it for the rest of my life… In about one or two years now everybody will probably be asking for the next one, won’t they?

Sakurai: Well, that’s only natural, isn’t it? Being able to make something like this and actually being able to bring it to completion is something close to a miracle. I went through all sorts of agreements in a variety of places; normally you’d be able to just be able to pop out another sequel, but this is different. To all the staff that worked on the game, and to everybody that let us use their characters, I really do want to say “thank you.”