Legendary journalist Bob Woodward chatted with CNN’s Jake Tapper on Monday about how its an open secret that President Donald Trump deliberately fans the flames of incendiary politics.

The conversation started with an old interview Woodward conducted in which Trump more or less told him that he harnesses political rage from people. Woodward found that to be a striking political strategy from the president, though it fits with Trump’s modus operandi of attacking the political press.

“You think that he purposely manifests the rage, channels the rage, incites the rage among supporters?” Tapper asked.

“Well, he says so,” Woodward responded. “And when he blames the media, when he goes out in these rallies, they are all designed to raise the boiling point, raise the temperature.”

Tapper eventually brought up the recent discussions on how the Trump Administration refuses to accept any responsibility for the divisive national climate. Critics argue that this climate led to the recent threats against the president’s critics and the hate-fueled attack on a Pittsburgh synagogue.

When asked if he thinks Trump bears any responsibility, Woodward seemed to suggest the answer is obvious.

“We have to look at what he does and what he’s doing here. It’s in plain sight, and let’s not kid ourselves. He’s stoking the fires and that serves his political purposes in his view,” Woodward said. “He wants to have this volatility in politics, and he succeeded.”

Woodward concluded by saying Trump is “failing” in terms of healing the country, and “even his supporters know they’re being riled up.”

Months ago, Woodward electrified the news cycle with the release of his book Fear: Trump in the White House. The book, based on extensive investigative reporting and numerous interviews, depicts Trump as misinformed, dishonest, and running his administration in a perpetual state of disarray.

Watch above, via CNN.

[Image via screengrab]

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