READER COMMENTS ON

"NYT Public Editor Accuses The BRAD BLOG of 'Political Agenda' on Par With ACORN Smear Artists, Hoaxsters Breitbart and O'Keefe"

(81 Responses so far...)





COMMENT #1 [Permalink]

... camusrebel said on 2/24/2010 @ 3:36 pm PT...





Great job Brad. Hoyt is toast thanks to you. Now can we go after the big fish? Who paid the NOLA buggers. Why is Howard Baker defending them with another uber RNC lawyer Madigan?

COMMENT #2 [Permalink]

... Brad Friedman said on 2/24/2010 @ 3:48 pm PT...





CamusRebel asked: Now can we go after the big fish? Who paid the NOLA buggers. Why is Howard Baker defending them with another uber RNC lawyer Madigan? That's kinda the point of this series. If the NYT was so easily conned by these same guys --- on a story that was easily verifiable *before* they misreported it --- how can we count on them to investigate the important points you mention above? If they remain in the pockets of these con-men, the stuff that actually matters will never get covered. And, unfortunately, The BRAD BLOG World News Headquarters doesn't have quite the same resources and access to dig into every one of the stories that they need to be doing for the American people! (But don't let that stop you from dropping a few dollars in the tip jar so we can keep trying!)

COMMENT #3 [Permalink]

... David Lasagna said on 2/24/2010 @ 3:52 pm PT...





Dear Brad, I'm so proud of you. And I'm so happy for us as maybe, just maybe some movement will occur over this. Listen, if this continues to explode and you finally begin to get the notice you have been so richly deserving for some years now, remember all of us elves, and gnomes,(and even trolls)back here. We'll still be mining, searching the forests and mountains, exploring the ocean depths, pursuing truth in our own, individual, goofy, relentless, beautiful ways. You're an American hero in the mold of George Seldes and I.F. Stone. I am most pleased to have made your acquaintance. Gotta go sign the petition.

COMMENT #4 [Permalink]

... Soul Rebel said on 2/24/2010 @ 4:11 pm PT...





Awesomer and awesomer. BF for president. The truth will prevail....eventually.

COMMENT #5 [Permalink]

... Floridiot said on 2/24/2010 @ 4:42 pm PT...





B, that looks an awful lot like the guy in the "like Judith Miller?" video that ran back inside the building, plus a few pounds. I'm not kidding.

COMMENT #6 [Permalink]

... Billy said on 2/24/2010 @ 4:58 pm PT...





Brad, They're right, you know, but truth is a good 'political agenda' to have. In fact, the New York Times used to have a very similar 'political agenda.'

COMMENT #7 [Permalink]

... Ernest A. Canning said on 2/24/2010 @ 5:53 pm PT...





I found the following Hoyt statement nothing short of fascinating: "The Times would need to find out for itself what actually happened at those Acorn offices. It is up to the paper to decide whether the investment of effort is worthwhile." Odd, Mr. Hoyt. I thought real journalists were supposed to make an "investment of effort" in order to determine "what actually happened" before they run a story. But then maybe I'm just old school. I always thought that in real journalism, truth and accuracy actually mattered. I see that I must be out of date; that like "new math" we are now in the 21st Century era of "new journalism" or what George Orwell referred to as "newsspeak."

COMMENT #8 [Permalink]

... Richard Blair said on 2/24/2010 @ 5:58 pm PT...





The old saying, "facts have a liberal bias" seems to apply here. I'm sure that's what's chapping Hoyt's ass and informing his opinion on your political agenda. Keep up the great work - I, too, want to know who's the financier behind Pimpy McStooge's continued exploits vis Landreiu. It's not Breitbart. He's just the bagman, and we all know it.

COMMENT #9 [Permalink]

... Ernest A. Canning said on 2/24/2010 @ 5:59 pm PT...





Brad, The link you provided for Hoyt's response to "this article" simply comes back to "this article." Ernie

COMMENT #10 [Permalink]

... David Lasagna said on 2/24/2010 @ 6:18 pm PT...





re my own comment 3 Was I being overly dramatic? The way this story is taking off seems like a big deal to me. It's thrilling to see Brad's efforts finally getting what I hope is significant traction. I had visions of him getting on Maddow regularly and that he'd then be off to the races and stars. Whatever happens I'd like to amend my fantasy for us the supporting cast here. My elves, gnomes, trolls bit of whimsy had some nice elements but I felt afterwards a little dismissive of the power of the intelligence, persistence, and creativity of the impressive cast of characters here. So rather than a picture of us being left behind while our hero is out in New York after the show having dinner with Rachel Maddow, I want to wish us all possible starring roles in our own adventure after adventure, lighting fire after fire under the monster's toes. Relentless and wild. There are a bunch of good-hearted, tough, smart people here. I think it's important what you imagine. (Okay, I'm laughing out loud. This is cyberspace and I'm trying to expand the boundaries and having fun in the attempt. And I've had a couple of weird days and I'm releasing here. But I fear I may be sounding like a complete lunatic. So let me just say that I don't think I'm complete. Yet. But I'm working on it.) love, Dave

COMMENT #11 [Permalink]

... camusrebel said on 2/24/2010 @ 7:09 pm PT...





Dave, lunacy gets a bad rap. Speaking of this motley crew of commenters, did we ever get to learn the identity of the one who started this particular ball rolling w/the NYT? If it was revealed earlier I apologize.

COMMENT #12 [Permalink]

... Lora said on 2/24/2010 @ 8:21 pm PT...





Brad, this is a great and wonderful endeavor. The two representatives of the NYT who you have been dealing with have shown themselves to be really pathetic. I’ve spent a good deal of time studying the Baltimore transcript. I wanted to check for myself how the transcript compared with the videos in terms of the tax advice given. Did the tax advisor really advise Giles to pay her taxes, or did she advise Giles to hide her income? With the very important caveat that we don’t know how accurate the transcript is without the unedited video, I believe the answer is a little of both. Consider the following exchanges (emphasis added):

[Note: I typed this from the PDF. My apologies for any typos.] (p.

Tonja: well there is a difference between having a job and having your own business okay so tell me

Kenya [Giles]: Well I guess before it was a job. There was this guy that people would give me money and I would give money to him…. [Here Tonja is trying to establishing whether “Kenya” has her own business or works for someone else.] (p.9)

Tonja: right so you wanna get a house so you do need a tax return so what you do is. For ’08 how much did you make do you know…guesstimate.

James: Is that by herself or is that gross with the money she gave to that guy…this guy who has been harassing her

Tonja: that guy..don’t worry about that guy because if he doesn’t do a quarterly report

James: & Kenya [Giles]: uh huh

Tonja: he is not reporting that money

James: well it’s all off the books

Kenya: right

Tonja: so he is not reporting that money so don’t use that money just the money you made [Here Tonja is advising Giles not to report income from the “job,” just from her own "business." The “job” money is classic “under-the-table” money. Legally it should be reported, just as all income should be reported. So should babysitting money, all tip money and all money made on the side that most people don’t report, probably on the advice of their tax professionals too. But, technically, here Tonja is advising her not to report certain income on her tax return.] p. 16

Tonja: In order for you to file a return for business

Kenya: what’s a return

Tonja: a tax return. In order for you to file a return for business you have to

Kenya: so I am returning taxes to the government

Tonja: no you have to pay taxes on the money you makeJames: is there any way around that though

Tonja: yeah don’t file them and you continue doing cash

James: okay okay [Tonja is explaining that Hannah must claim income and pay taxes on it.] In other exchanges, Tonja questions Hannah as to why they want to file a return at all. It comes back to needing a tax return for a mortgage on a house. Also, when gathering information for a Schedule C for Hannah's business, Tonja is looking for appropriate business deductions (clothing, grooming, etc) that will offset the income and reduce it below where she will have to pay self-employment tax. This is not hiding income but rather looking for "legitimate" business expenses (if you can have legitimate expenses for an illegitimate business, that is!) In conclusion and based only on this transcript which has not been vetted for accuracy, I would say that Tonja questioned why Hannah would want to file tax returns on an illegal, cash-only business, advised Hannah NOT to report the "job" income from her association with the pimp, but made a bona fide effort at getting information for a business tax return that would be fairly accurate and reflective of both income and expenses.

COMMENT #13 [Permalink]

... Jeannie Dean said on 2/24/2010 @ 8:48 pm PT...





No, my Lasagna. Not overly dramatic. It would be jism-inducing to finally see Brad finally get some substantial play (and PAY) for any of his numerous, outstanding contributions to journalism over the years. If what we imagine is important, then I'll imagine it as inevitable. NEW YORK TIMES: ALL THE NEWS THAT's FIT TO FISH WRAP! Call on Editor to Retract Erroneous Reports #NYTIMES FAIL http://is.gd/91Zff

less than 5 seconds ago

COMMENT #14 [Permalink]

... Soul Rebel said on 2/24/2010 @ 8:49 pm PT...





And the crazy thing about all of this is that it absolutely drives the focus away from where it really needs to go...

COMMENT #15 [Permalink]

... Brad Friedman said on 2/24/2010 @ 8:50 pm PT...





CamusRebel @ 11 The reader asked not to have his full identity disclosed, so he has been known only as Bob F. It's up to him if he wishes to further identify himself. BTW, the great Tom Tomorrow suggests tonight all of this will play some role in his toon next week! Kewl! Here's a recent cursorily-related toon of his that we ran a week or two ago. Anybody want to guess whether "Conservative Jones" will be making another appearance next week? (I have no inside track on this, just tossing it out there.)

COMMENT #16 [Permalink]

... Larry Bergan said on 2/24/2010 @ 8:52 pm PT...





Go easy Brad! Good journalism is a powerful thing. You don't want them to feel sorry for Goliath. Nah! Go for it!

COMMENT #17 [Permalink]

... Brad Friedman said on 2/24/2010 @ 9:03 pm PT...





Ernie Canning @ 9: Whoops! Thanks! Meant to add that update to *yesterday's* article, not this one! Have fixed it.

COMMENT #18 [Permalink]

... CharlieL said on 2/24/2010 @ 9:41 pm PT...





Just tweeted: The (once liberal, now pathetic) New York Times has lost all credibility. The Old Gray Lady is dead. #NYTimesFAIL http://is.gd/91Zff Bottom line: Sure, those misguided dolts on the right wing who still believe that they are liberal will be glad to see the NYT go down, but so will I, and I'm as far from the right as you can get. The New York Times will go down because they have demonstrated that they are so stuck in their own bloated egos that they can't even do "journalism" any more. They DESERVE to stop being. They no longer deliver on their promise.

COMMENT #19 [Permalink]

... CharlieL said on 2/24/2010 @ 9:45 pm PT...





Oh, and P.S. Did the venerable and great New York Times EVER do a well-researched and balanced story on the total destruction of our electoral system? No. It was Rolling Stone who had to do that story, and even THEN, the Times could have picked up the story (they way they picked up the stories of the Washington Post when they wanted to take down Nixon) and run with it, but NO, they did not. The single most important story of our country's history --- that our electoral process has been stolen --- and the "paper of record" has missed it completely. F&%# THE NEW YORK TIMES, MAY THEY REST IN PEACE, and may arrogant jerks like Hoyt never work again.

COMMENT #20 [Permalink]

... Ernest A. Canning said on 2/24/2010 @ 10:14 pm PT...





Lora: Thanks for the link to the Baltimore transcript. I had watched the video previously--can't quite remember where someone else posted it. The transcript underscores O'Keefe and Giles deception. It is a far cry from the edited video. It begins by revealing that O'Keefe and Giles (who went by the name Kenya) advised the ACORN workers at the outset that O'Keefe was a 22 year old college student hoping to one day run for Congress. They are half way to the end of the transcript before the word "prostitution" is mentioned. The word "pimp" is later mentioned but only in the sense that they were seeking to protect Giles from the guy. It is obvious from the content that the ACORN "tax employee" is not the sharpest tool in the shed. Giles tells her she's making $8 grand/month and the tax employee concludes that Giles is making $9,600/year. Through much of the conversation both Giles and O'Keefe are quite evasive, dropping hints but never coming out until the very end stating that Giles works as a prostitute. That said, some of the conversation towards the end suggests that the light went on for the tax employee and the "advice" she gave them was, in my opinion, quite inappropriate. What also comes through is that Giles and O'Keefe never once said that the girls coming from El Salvador would be working as prostitutes. To the contrary, O'Keefe says that they're going to put a roof over their heads and that's how the conversation turns to whether they can claim them as dependents. Keep in mind that per Harshbarger, no ACORN supervisory personnel were present during the entire interaction and that both of these employees were fired the moment their conduct came to light.

COMMENT #21 [Permalink]

... Brad Friedman said on 2/24/2010 @ 10:25 pm PT...





Ernest @ 20 noted: It is obvious from the content that the ACORN "tax employee" is not the sharpest tool in the shed. Giles tells her she's making $8 grand/month and the tax employee concludes that Giles is making $9,600/year. "Not the sharpest tool in the shed" may be a bit unfair there. At least from the evidence you proffer. Obviously, she heard $800/month, not $8 grand ($800 x 12 months = $9,600) FWIW. And yes, the low-level employees didn't follow ACORN's written protocols, etc. and so were let go. But the difference between that, and criminal wrong doing is, apparently, too fine a nuance for wingnuts to actually understand. So the fact that they were fired is evidence that ACORN is a "criminal organization". Sigh...

COMMENT #22 [Permalink]

... Shortbus said on 2/24/2010 @ 10:28 pm PT...





I also took notice of that Ernest "The Times would need to find out for itself what actually happened at those Acorn offices. It is up to the paper to decide whether the investment of effort is worthwhile." You want a story Mr. Hoyt? worth your investment? I have doozie for you.

It's all about this community organization, ACORN They have been attacked relentlessly for years over a supposed role they played in Voter Fraud. You've heard of Voter Fraud I'm sure Mr. Hoyt and when you do, do you think of ACORN? Most People do. They have been brainwashed again and again to equate Voter Fraud with, you got it, ACORN. Then comes along this "Amateur Sting Journalism"

with its out of context video that captures a few employees out of 10's of 1000's giving very bad advice, which, cost them their jobs, but also sparked such a furor that Congress cut off all federal funding to it, over a video we now know was bullshit!

The Story Mr. Hoyt is to look at who wants ACORN destroyed and why?

Why not do a story and right the wrongs done to this Community organization? Their only crime Mr Hoyt, is registering Minority Voters who mostly Vote towards Democrats.

So when your paper continues the lies(so ever small in your eye's) to me, it's a big deal "Freedom of the Press, is only free, if you own it"

COMMENT #23 [Permalink]

... torfic said on 2/24/2010 @ 11:17 pm PT...





thanks brad!!! you think maybe they'll cover ohio 2004 yet?

COMMENT #24 [Permalink]

... Alex said on 2/25/2010 @ 12:11 am PT...





What I wrote Mr Hoyt:

Mr Hoyt:

I find your inability to review the ACORN issue very revealing. It confirms for me that people in the mainstream news media are more comfortable with telling the stories that conform to the accepted mindset of the "in" crowd, and not to newly developing facts as they are revealed. This is the same mind set of a religious zealot. A zealot is so sure of his/her position that even in the face of damning facts they are unwilling to admit that there was a wrong interpretation. Mr. Hoyt, you seem to be unwilling to consider any possibility of inaccurate reporting. The scientific approach would be to make a hypothesis, and if facts come to light that challenge the initial hypothesis then you should be willing to entertain and even change your hypothesis to fit the new evidence. You, on the other hand, disregard the new evidence because it does not conform to your beliefs.

Either you are a media zealot who is unwilling to consider other views, or you and your paper have other agendas (or people with agendas that have to be placated). Neither is good for the reputation of the "paper of record". This is why I have not subscribed to the NY TImes and I only read it through internet sites or when I visit my parents. When I visit my parents and read the paper I am reminded by the narrowness of coverage why I am glad I am not a subscriber.

COMMENT #25 [Permalink]

... Brian Keith O'Hara said on 2/25/2010 @ 1:26 am PT...





Considering the disappointment I feel in regard to Barack Obama, The only hope for change is the truth. If The New York Times doesn't tell the truth what hope is there?

COMMENT #26 [Permalink]

... Jeannie Dean said on 2/25/2010 @ 1:32 am PT...





Great back-to-back comments @ DeLong's site: micah said... ...so when did he make his biggest splash? When he dressed up as a pimp, or when he trained his hidden camera on ACORN counselors? Even on a purely literal level, that defense makes no sense. Reply February 23, 2010 at 05:23 PM

NYT said... Why stop there.

"President Obama made a big splash today when he met religous leaders at the White House today and he pulled down his pants and defecated." Brill-yant.

COMMENT #27 [Permalink]

... Jeannie Dean said on 2/25/2010 @ 2:03 am PT...





...comments @ Balloon Juice: D. Aristophanes I suspect we’ve all been trying to reconcile the counterintuitive notion that a person can suck and blow, so it’s nice that Clark Hoyt has so neatly demonstrated how this is done. Citizen_X Clark Hoyt’s mom used to have sex and get paid. Wait, did you think I meant at the same time? Oh, no, no, no, no, no!...

COMMENT #28 [Permalink]

... molly said on 2/25/2010 @ 4:26 am PT...





The NYTimes uses their own archives to fact check. They are a joke.Their balance sheet is an indication.All they have left is their name.When you think of the Times, Judy Miller comes to mind. Racist elitist mouth piece for the banksters and Wall Street.Rupert Murdoch should put in a bid.

COMMENT #29 [Permalink]

... David Lasagna said on 2/25/2010 @ 7:39 am PT...





The mental gymnastics required of Hoyt to avoid saying/looking at something he just can't bring himself to honestly examine is beyond Olympian. But I'm telling you this goes way beyond this guy. From where I'm sitting, standing, trying to engage people, it's a cultural thing. I don't know to what extent it's true in other countries, but we've got an epidemic of magic thinking in the U.S. I've seen it again and again in my personal life. It happens in personal matters when there is conflict. It can happen when you bring up some uncomfortable political matter. Can be election integrity, our endangered food supply, the reality behind the ongoing Acorn attacks, Israel, any number of things. And it happens across the political spectrum. It's what WE do. Time and again I have witnessed people just refuse to look at what is right in front of them. They jump and weave and dance and dodge and go silent. This is what Hoyt is doing, but he's just picked up on an MO that's going on all around him. And for the most part we let each other get away with this. Particularly unfortunate in his case because this is exactly what his job requires him NOT doing. But he is not really behaving much outside the lines. Just seems that way if you're a freak who still wants the words to mean what the words mean. It's gonna be a long haul getting the meaning of words back, chillun'. So roll up your sleeves. Make sure you got on some shoes with good traction. And push that windmill. Just for context.

COMMENT #30 [Permalink]

... David Lasagna said on 2/25/2010 @ 8:20 am PT...





Jeannie Dean @27 Hilarious and perfect. Also, I must say these recent days here in Bradblophilia I am particularly loving us. So much intelligence, effort, hunmor, and support. So love to you all my fellow commenters in ethereal arms. And to Brad, our fearless leader.(last line to be read as Natasha would say it) (commentER or commentOR?)

COMMENT #31 [Permalink]

... Ernest A. Canning said on 2/25/2010 @ 8:32 am PT...





As I noted in #20, When Giles and O'Keefe came into the Baltimore ACORN office they represented to the temporary employees that O'Keefe was a college student hoping to one day run for Congress--a far cry from the pimp & prostitute canard which emerged in the right-wing echo chamber and which then was repeated by the unthinkingly stenographers of the corporate-owned media who mistakenly describe themselves as "journalists." Forget the fact that O'Keefe never posed as a pimp. The transcript reveals the extraordinary deception employed by Giles & O'Keefe to secure what they hoped would be damning words from the unsuspecting ACORN employees without actually divulging that Giles was posing as a "prostitute." I've used "ACORN tax lady," Giles & O'Keefe rather than the pseudonyms used in the transcript and edited for punctuation. ACORN tax lady: They pay you with cash. And they are reporting this to the government? Giles: No who? O’Keefe: The clients. Giles: My clients. Tax lady: No the person that’s paying you. James: The clients. Tax lady: The job that’s paying you. Giles: Well people pay me different things every day. Tax lady: Well there’s a difference between having a job and having your own business. Okay, so tell me. Giles: Well before I guess it was a job. There was this guy that people would give me money and I would give money to him. But now…I am trying to get away from that guy. O’Keefe: I am trying to help her out; maybe give her a place to go where she can perform her work, maybe a house where she doesn’t have to get targeted by this other guy. You know what I am saying? Tax lady: …Does the business have an ID number? O’Keefe: No. Tax lady: Okay. So there is no taxes and nothing being put to government so the government really knows nothing about this business? Giles: No. They don’t know about me—hopefully. Tax lady: So you are just starting the business. Note how slickly Giles and O'Keefe moved from taxes to a house where Giles can work without ever divulging that the "work" would entail prostitution? Note also that the ACORN tax lady does not have the slightest inkling that Giles is a prostitute. If she did, she would not be asking about tax ID numbers. __________________ Responding to Brad @21: Tax lady: About $800 a month. Giles: 8 grand a month. Tax lady: 8 grand a month. Okay. So that’s going to put you at 8,000, 9,600 a year. Clearly the tax lady didn't know that 8 grand is $8,000. This and the inability to recognize the ruse are the reasons why I don't think she's one of the "sharpest tools in the shed." I state that not in a derogatory sense, but actually because it underscores the extent to which O'Keefe & Giles manipulated her, for Giles & O'Keefe, too, understood that they were not dealing with one of the sharpest tools in the shed; sought to exploit that to their advantage.

COMMENT #32 [Permalink]

... Ancient said on 2/25/2010 @ 9:14 am PT...





Camusrebel #1

As to who funded okeefe, think "blowjob" and who funded that... olbermann made the connection a couple of weeks back. "Politico.com today reports all four men, quote, “had been groomed for years to be part of a new wave of activist conservative journalists by a series of influential and often deep-pocketed benefactors, not as you might imagine friends of health care reform. O‘Keefe, Basel and Stan Dai all received grants to start their right-wing college newspapers from the Leadership Institute, right-wing training ground for alumni like Karl Rove and Senate Republican Leader Mitch McConnell. They got more funding from the right-wing Collegiate Network funded by Richard Mellon Scaife among others. And O‘Keefe‘s legal bills for the ACORN lawsuit against him are being paid for by a legal group affiliated with James Dobson‘s Focus on the Family." And don’t forget this component:

http://rawstory.com/2010...fice-intelligence-links/ Hoyt is probably a friend of scaife.

COMMENT #33 [Permalink]

... T.R.O. said on 2/25/2010 @ 9:21 am PT...





Is the NYT in the running to be a replacement for Sun Myung Moon's Washington Times? ...I can't believe that nobody else has picked up on the hypocrisy of Andrew Breitbart slamming ACORN in the pages of Sun Myung Moon's Washington Times ...

www.democraticundergroun....php?az...all... - Cached I was unaware that Breitbart did a column for Moon's paper. The link above provides a very interesting chart,defintely worth a look.

COMMENT #34 [Permalink]

... T.R.O. said on 2/25/2010 @ 9:24 am PT...





The Real Sun Myung Moon: Andrew Breitbart Throws Stones At ACORN ...Sep 29, 2009 ... The operatives are now in the employ of Andrew Breitbart, a commentator for Sun Myung Moon's Washington Times. Breitbart was so outraged by ...

realsunmyungmoon.blogspot.com/.../andrew-breitbart-throws-stones-at-acorn.html - Cached - Similar

COMMENT #35 [Permalink]

... sam said on 2/25/2010 @ 10:24 am PT...





According to Media Matters Mr Hoyt "devoted an entire column last year in order to scold the Times news team for not reacting fast enough to the all-important ACORN story." So when Mr Hoyt says that everyone in this story has a political agenda he really means it. Thing is, the Public Editor of the "paper of record" shouldn't be one of them. Hoyt should be fired immediately.

COMMENT #36 [Permalink]

... NYCartist said on 2/25/2010 @ 10:35 am PT...





And the punch-line is that ACORN has folded, in large part because of media coverage by the NYTimes. I heard the head of the Working Families Party of NYS, which has been affiliated with ACORN in the past, say that ACORN has ended. There's a new group formed in NYS to continue some of the work. One more success story for big lies. I heard the Working Family Party head on the radio several days ago, on Mark Riley's show, "Early Drive Time" on WWRL AM 1600. I was so shocked, I called in to the show.

Sanda

COMMENT #37 [Permalink]

... NYCartist said on 2/25/2010 @ 10:39 am PT...





PS (Forgot to say) I cited Brad Blog in my on-air call, which I refer to in my previous comment.

COMMENT #38 [Permalink]

... Marilyn Holt said on 2/25/2010 @ 12:16 pm PT...





As I have often thought for over a decade, there is no "liberal" media. I think the breakdown has happened and news is divided between between big-business media, and bloggers from the liberal and conservative.

COMMENT #39 [Permalink]

... Lora said on 2/25/2010 @ 2:00 pm PT...





Brad and Ernest, How about we say that the ACORN tax adviser was confused. With all the innuendo the two imposters were throwing around, it would have been hard to figure out just what was going on. She may have heard $8 grand but it may not have registered. What would anyone making $96,000 a year be doing in ACORN's offices anyway? She may have simply been confused enough to have assumed $800 a month, which would have been exactly what she said: $9600 a year. I think she had this confusion during the entire interview. In part I think she heard what she expected to hear, but checked out most of her assumptions with questions. I think the same thing happened with the El Salvadorean (later inexplicably turned into Guatemalan) girls. I'm speculating here that the tax adviser did not want to think that O'Keefe and Giles were planning to pimp out a bunch of underage girls. The situation was getting more and more bizarre and she just wanted to focus on what she knew: taxes. Consider p. 18 of the transcript: James: well I want to ask you a question there is another variable here that Kenya should we talk to you about which may complicate our taxes is that we have a couple of girls overseas who are coming over and they are very young you know, what I mean. We don't wanna put them on the books.

Kenya: they are kind of dependent

James: they are from El Salvador

Tonja: okay

James: there is like 13 of them and they are probably going to move into the house that we get

Kenya: just for a year while they get on their feet

James: just to get them on their feet so they can do this type of thing

Tonja: so do you want to....so why you all even wanna do taxes oh cause of the house The tax adviser then focuses on the tax implications of young dependents in a household and seems oblivious or ignores what type of work if any the girls might potentially be doing, seeming to assume that the girls will be somehow coming over legally, unitl p. 20: Tonja: They under 16 so you don't worry about that, but on the other part of the form you can use them as a dependents because they live in your house they are under 16 and they are living in your house. Well you live in a boat but because you are taking care of them you can use them as a dependent.

James: what if they are going to be making money because they are performing tricks too

Tonja: but if they making money and they are underage you shouldn't be letting anybody know anyway O'Keefe slipped in the zinger about performing tricks and Tonja ignored that part totally. I expect she was overwhelmed and not quite processing everything she was hearing. She stuck to the part relating to employment and employment taxes. I also found it interesting that O'Keefe was the one who supplied the zingers about prostitution and Hannah seemed to present herself more as someone who was just watching out for the girls' interests. And the tax advisor I believe was focused on Hannah.

COMMENT #40 [Permalink]

... Lora said on 2/25/2010 @ 2:06 pm PT...





Irony of the Day: At the top of the Brad Blog page there is an ad: Get the Times delivered to your home for 50% off. Click to order. The New York Times HEE hee hee hah hee hee haH!

COMMENT #41 [Permalink]

... Big Dan said on 2/25/2010 @ 2:39 pm PT...





At least Hoyt admits the NYTimes views the "truth" as a "political agenda". What he's saying is that when someone points out to the NYTimes that they printed a FALSE story and would like the NYTimes to retract it...that's a political agenda, NOT someone who wants the NYTimes to retract a false story. WOW! The NYTimes!

COMMENT #42 [Permalink]

... Big Dan said on 2/25/2010 @ 2:43 pm PT...





The media was liberal at one time. It did hold the powerful accountable. What better plan was there than for the powerful to usurp the liberal media and keep calling it liberal? The reason they call it liberal is because it was liberal before they usurped it. So, it follows, that those who keep calling it liberal, like Rush Limbaugh, work for the powerful. Do you like his cigar? Did you know cigars are a symbol of the rich and powerful? "It is known among political scientists that powerful forces always seek to gain control of pre-existing social and political institutions so they can usurp their powers." Part V: Overcoming the Divide and Conquer Strategy — The Economic Elite Vs. The People of the USA (BD: the media isn't "liberal") http://ampedstatus.com/p...vs-the-people-of-the-usa

COMMENT #43 [Permalink]

... BlueHawk said on 2/25/2010 @ 2:50 pm PT...





Big Dan @42 Outstanding point...great link too...

COMMENT #44 [Permalink]

... Big Dan said on 2/25/2010 @ 2:50 pm PT...





When an editor at a paper such as the NYTimes cannot admit when he is wrong, and then attacks the person who is telling him about being wrong as having a political agenda, then: 1. He needs to step down

2. He should be fired

3. If neither of the above is done, then there's something really funny going on that needs even FURTHER investigation! The NYTimes has been told before they were wrong, I've seen it many times, including the Judith Miller reporting, and they've retracted the stories and apologized. Why not this time? THAT is a good question, isn't it?

COMMENT #45 [Permalink]

... Big Dan said on 2/25/2010 @ 3:10 pm PT...





I actually got that link from 99. But that's my comment about it.

COMMENT #46 [Permalink]

... Big Dan said on 2/25/2010 @ 3:19 pm PT...





Remember I asked why they want us to keep thinking it's "liberal"? The "liberal media"? And I think Karen said that was a good but unanswered question? Well, I think the answer is because when the liberal media was usurped, the powerful who usurped it had to keep calling it liberal so you'd think they didn't usurp it! That's actually a pretty simple answer, but it was very difficult to figure out. Ron Paul's Tea Party was usurped the same way, and guess what? They kept calling it the Tea Party! LOL! It all makes sense! "Thou dost protest too loudly". When they usurp an existing entity, like the media, they also overcompensate by saying "liberal media" a million times a day. The ones saying it are the ones who usurped it, like Rush Limbaugh, which is an accurate indicator of who is usurping it. Breitbart, too, he always says "liberal media". Notice, though, with this NYTimes thing, Breitbart isn't calling the NYTimes the "liberal media"!

COMMENT #47 [Permalink]

... Big Dan said on 2/25/2010 @ 3:22 pm PT...





I think Brad Blog and others should "dig deep" into the background of Clark Hoyt. Maybe you'll be surprised at what you find.

COMMENT #48 [Permalink]

... rwgate said on 2/25/2010 @ 5:43 pm PT...





In my business I work with many artists. They trust me to help sell their work. It is a small, tightly knit community, where news travels fast. If I cheat one of them for any reason, I lose their trust, and I would quickly be out of business. The Times became what it is because readers trusted it to tell the truth. When they stop doing that, as in this case, they lose the trust of their readers. What else do they lie about? How do I know that they are telling me the truth? I have lost confidence in them, and no matter what they do, I treat it with suspicion and distrust.

COMMENT #49 [Permalink]

... BlueHawk said on 2/25/2010 @ 6:23 pm PT...





Big Dan @45 I cruise 99's site regularly...it's a treasure trove.

COMMENT #50 [Permalink]

... Big Dan said on 2/25/2010 @ 10:03 pm PT...





I stole the link from 99's site. HA HA! At least I gave her credit.

COMMENT #51 [Permalink]

... Big Dan said on 2/25/2010 @ 10:07 pm PT...





Wikipedia: Clark Hoyt is an American journalist who is currently the public editor of the New York Times, serving as the 'readers representative'. He is the newspaper's third public editor, or ombudsman, after Daniel Okrent and Byron Calame. His initial two-year term began on May 14, 2007, and was later extended for another two years. Hoyt is a member of the The Hill School class of 1960 and a 1964 graduate of Columbia University. He served previously as the Washington, D.C. bureau chief for Knight Ridder newspapers. On Sept. 27, Times ombudsman Clark Hoyt published a column in which the paper's managing editor acknowledged having been "slow off the mark" but denied that political bias played any role.[1] An October 16, 2009, Wall Street Journal interview with Andrew Breitbar[2] revealed his intention to use the Acorn scandal as an opportunity to expose a liberal media bias. In November 2009, Hoyt publicly responded to an allegation by Timothy Dolan, the archbishop of New York, that the New York Times was displaying a systematic anti-Catholic bias. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clark_Hoyt Hey, how about the part that says: "An October 16, 2009, Wall Street Journal interview with Andrew Breitbar[2] revealed his intention to use the Acorn scandal as an opportunity to expose a liberal media bias."

COMMENT #52 [Permalink]

... Big Dan said on 2/25/2010 @ 10:19 pm PT...





If the NYTimes doesn't publish a retraction, it's "Mission: Accomplished" for rightwingers who can make shit up and the NYTimes will act as a stenographer for them instead of a world class newspaper. So, that's what they NYTimes wants to be known as, fine. That's what I thought is was, anyway, since the Judith Miller propaganda and then getting William Kristol as a columnist. Liberal??? They're becoming a joke, at least to those who actually check up on things. Maybe they cut too many people to save money and they're just stenographers who are really appreciative when someone like Breitbart does the "work" for them and they just transcribe it and say he was their source. I have an idea: Hoyt should fire himself and just let Breitbart be the ombudsman!

COMMENT #53 [Permalink]

... Adam Fulford said on 2/25/2010 @ 10:24 pm PT...





... Big Dan wrote... Hey, how about the part that says: "An October 16, 2009, Wall Street Journal interview with Andrew Breitbar[2] revealed his intention to use the Acorn scandal as an opportunity to expose a liberal media bias." There we officially have it. Clark Hoyt is a fascist with no desire to report facts if they in any way contradict extreme rightist propaganda. Surprise, surprise. Brad Friedman has singlehandedly dismantled the lie that the New York Times has any regards for the truth, and exposed Clark Hoyt to be a barefaced liar.

COMMENT #54 [Permalink]

... Big Dan said on 2/25/2010 @ 11:51 pm PT...





How about this: The NYTimes publishes an article recently skewering another paper retracting a story, and the NYTimes says: "We hope that The Lancet’s belated retraction will finally lay this damaging myth about autism and vaccines to rest. " http://www.nytimes.com/2...2/06/opinion/06sat3.html SO...it's "OK" for the NYTimes not to retract a damaging myth to ACORN! Is it because ACORN is considered a "black" organization? Is there some RACISM involved here? A bunch of rich WHITE conservatives did the myth so they're not retracting it?

COMMENT #55 [Permalink]

... Jeannie Dean said on 2/25/2010 @ 11:58 pm PT...





Tweeting anew: NEW YORK TIMES Public Editor #CLARK HOYT slips the Gray Lady a ROOFIE and now she OPENLY FELLATES FOX NEWS #NYTIMESFAIL http://tr.im/PFEY

less than 20 seconds ago via web

COMMENT #56 [Permalink]

... Lora said on 2/26/2010 @ 5:18 am PT...





re: my comment #12: A smiley face snuck in while I was trying to type an 8. It should read "page 8." (Maybe 8 with a colon after it equals a smiley face? Lemme try.... 8: )

COMMENT #57 [Permalink]

... Lora said on 2/26/2010 @ 5:20 am PT...





eight-parenthesis I bet...

COMMENT #58 [Permalink]

... Big Dan said on 2/26/2010 @ 8:37 am PT...





A couple of studies released last year produced surprising results about the average consumers of right-wing media. “The dirty little secret of conservative talk radio is that the average age of listeners is 67 [so now 68] and rising … [The] Fox News audience, likewise, is in its mid-60s.” In addition, a Pew study in February 2009 found that 72 percent of Rush Limbaugh’s grizzled Dittoheads are men and so have a life expectancy of 75.6 years, which means this cohort will expire by 2017. Limbaugh will be 60 next January, which means he will be 67 when his average-aged listeners die off....... http://www.pensitoreview...s-for-fox-news-limbaugh/ Maybe that explains the NYTimes unpopularity with their obvious "swing to the right"! Maybe the NYTimes readers (left remaining) will die out the same way. Our problem is we're not stupid. We don't believe any SHIT we read, even in the NYTimes.

COMMENT #59 [Permalink]

... czaragorn said on 2/26/2010 @ 8:57 am PT...





The Times doesn't even work for house-breaking puppies, for Heaven's sake. My baby Lab turns his nose up at it and stands by the door and yaps. Apparently he doesn't want to defile his poop with the lies of Hoyt et al....

COMMENT #60 [Permalink]

... T.R.O. said on 2/26/2010 @ 10:26 am PT...





From some of the articles I have read at Editors and Publisher's website, it would appear that Bill Keller and Hoyt have some SERIOUS differences themselves regarding Hoyt's stance on OTHER recent stories and strategy. I was recently reviewing the online edition of the NYT fourth quarter report. According to my recollection, their costs have been cut,resulting in over $400 million savings, their advertising revenues are up, they intend to begin the pay for play online in 2011. They expect increasing revnue based on their "Quality reporting". We'll see,Mrs. Robinson.

COMMENT #61 [Permalink]

... renzoku bb.com said on 2/26/2010 @ 10:48 am PT...





Thank you much again Brad and all. Glad to read more comments digging deeper and less self congratulating. Please consider my "few dollars in the tip jar" a retainer to dig deeper. I will gladly continue to spend money here that I previously would have spent on the NYT. Anyone find anything definitive on connecting Scaife, Breitbart, Hoyt, OKeefe and the Congresscreeps who stuffed ACORN? Is anyone else forwarding this to Maddow, Olberman, Hartmann, Rhodes, Schultz, Miller....?

COMMENT #62 [Permalink]

... T.R.O. said on 2/26/2010 @ 10:50 am PT...





MCM December 24, 2009 Report Uncovers No Voting Fraud by Acorn By JOHN SCHWARTZ http://www.nytimes.com/2...amp;sq=ACORN+voter+fraud ...

www.mail-archive.com/...com/msg02451.html - Cached The NYT, on Christmas Eve, published a story -not on the front page- about ACORN'S vindication. It is worth reading, in juxtaposition of present positions being taken. An excellent piece by Mark Crispin Miller.

COMMENT #63 [Permalink]

... Markov said on 2/26/2010 @ 11:11 am PT...





The words 'liberal' and 'New York Times' do not belong in the same lexicon, let alone the same sentence.

Does everyone forget that when Molly Ivins died their go-to columnist was William friggin' Kristol?

The NYT has never met a war it wasn't ready to cheerlead and can't see it's way clear to publish Sibel Edmond's name or story, couldn't manage to publish the Downing Street Minutes, didn't publish the story on NSA wiretaps until it was about to get scooped by it's own reporters, and, oh yeah: Judith Miller.

Why are there any liberals who even bother reading it?

Sure they retain a few liberal columnists and Paul Krugman, but it's just for cover.. sorta like the way NPR does gardening shows to run in between their guests from the Heritage Foundation.

COMMENT #64 [Permalink]

... T.R.O. said on 2/26/2010 @ 11:28 am PT...





@#61 I would suggest the Council for National Policy as an excellent point of refernce to begin connecting the dots. However, to be clear, I have NOT seen evidence of Mr. Hoyt being associated with CNP,whatsoever. The CNP was founded in 1981,just two years after Morton Blackwell founded the Leadersip Institute, whose alumnae including the Pimpostor and his telephoneys. (BTW, Blackwell was raised in Louisiana, and has longstanding ties to Abramoff,as they were both active in College Republicans activites.

Blackwell was Rove's mentor.And is not coincidental, that Tony Perkins of FRC is a member,nor the David Vitter is on the LI board-they are both from Louisiana.

And ACORN's national headquarters is in New Orleans.) The list of Congresscritters is quite revealing,in the wonderful seek god links to the roster of Council for National Policy hard right members,downthread: Council for National Policy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaThe Council for National Policy (CNP), is an umbrella organization and networking group for social conservative activists in the United States. ...

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_for_National_Policy www.seekgod.ca/cnp.htm - Cached - Similar Seek God.ca - Council For National Policy (CNP)Introduction to The Council for National Policy (CNP) -What It Is, Jun 27, ... CNP Name List By Alphabetical Listing (By Page-click Letter), Jun 1, 2001 ...

www.seekgod.ca/topiccnp.htm - Cached - Similar

COMMENT #65 [Permalink]

... David Lasagna said on 2/26/2010 @ 12:42 pm PT...





Dear Renzo @ 61, You said, Glad to read more comments digging deeper and less self congratulating. My dear dude/dudette,

We are for the most part toiling way in obscurity in a little closet far, far away in a forgotten corner of cyberspace in a time long, long ago. At least that's what it often feels like. When our leader gets a little long overdue recognition please allow us a little room to celebrate. I don't think anyone here would be anywhere near to thinking our work is done or that resting on our, Brad's, or anyone else's laurels is the order of the day. To paraphrase Emma Goldman--If there isn't dancing in you revolution, count me out. Joy my dude, dudette. Gots to have it! Long live Bradophilia!!!

COMMENT #66 [Permalink]

... Ancient said on 2/26/2010 @ 1:10 pm PT...





You know TRO, I think the network of groups spawned/involved with the federalist society members wound be a great place to start dot connection. (not just in this case but many of Democracy's horrendous problems)Big players...big picture. Their greed and ambition is unbound under a veneer of polite society.

COMMENT #67 [Permalink]

... Ancient said on 2/26/2010 @ 1:39 pm PT...





Oops, That should be; Their greed, ambition, and VIOLENCE is unbound under a veneer of polite society.

I just want to know, when will Americans wake up to the fact the above are running the theater that keeps people distracted from the fact that clean hand counted paper ballots is the quickest way to cleaning up their mess and restoring dignity to America? I mean really, why do ya think they attack Acorn and Brad?

COMMENT #68 [Permalink]

... Ancient said on 2/26/2010 @ 2:06 pm PT...





OT

Hmmmm.... and just how did mike connel die Senator Leahey? http://thinkprogress.org...2/26/yoo-email-deletion/

COMMENT #69 [Permalink]

... T.R.O. said on 2/26/2010 @ 2:20 pm PT...





@#66 and #67 I absolutely agree about the Federalist group. Another group that has gotten very little coverage,is the Pioneer Fund. There is a real thread of continuity between the racial animus of many far right groups-including the antics of Pimpostor and his mentors at the Leadership Institute- with the eugenics of the Pioneer Group. Jesse Helms,one of LI's staunchest allies was a big proponent of the Pioneer Fund's theories. Here is a link to MUCH information on the Pioeer Fund,deemed a hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center: Sarah Palin, Eugenics, the CNP and The Pioneer Fund - The ... title="The Seduction of Sarah Palin: Eugenics, CNP, and the Pioneer Fund... In a September 1, 2008 article for The Nation, Max Blumenthal reported that the ...

educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=14320&mode...

COMMENT #70 [Permalink]

... OR Native said on 2/26/2010 @ 2:30 pm PT...





Ok so using Mr. Hoyt's criteria to qualify for a retraction a Times reporter would have had to have accompanied O'Keefe! Earth to Hoyt, Earth to Hoyt we sent you the transcript, we sent you videotaped testimony of one of the principles and we sent you reports from the other principle all three of which do not support your published position that you admit was NOT independently verified.

Turn the small Blue valve on your space suit and let a little more oxygen into to your Helmut because you mental capacities are obviously impaired

COMMENT #71 [Permalink]

... Big Dan said on 2/26/2010 @ 3:17 pm PT...





I bet the NYTimes hates the internet. The internet provided an alternative place to verify the NYTimes' "reporting" (stenography of rightwingers). Bottom line: the NYTimes won't retract a false story that they have been notified is false. Instead, they attack and try and discredit the person notifying them and don't hold the liars accountable.

COMMENT #72 [Permalink]

... T.R.O. said on 2/26/2010 @ 4:04 pm PT...





Here is an important article ,posted yesterday over at Media Matters re: New York Times "Credibility Group": A newspaper worth paying for? | Media Matters for AmericaFeb 25, 2010 ... If newspapers like The New York Times want people to pay for ... In 2005, a New York Times "Credibility Group" prepared a report (PDF) for executive editor Bill Keller on steps the paper ... When it comes to actually fact-checking and posting corrections .... That is an absolutely amazing statement. ...

mediamatters.org/columns/201002250056 (Apologies if this has been previously linked.)

COMMENT #73 [Permalink]

... renzoku bb.com said on 2/26/2010 @ 4:55 pm PT...





F---in lasagna's crazy. dude. that was me dancin. guess my dance is a tad traction oriented is all. always lookin for another laugh. that's the beauty of folk like brad, max blumenthal, al franken, dmitry orlov, thom hartmann,.... the more pointed the fact uncovered, the better the laugh.

COMMENT #74 [Permalink]

... renzoku bb.com said on 2/26/2010 @ 5:06 pm PT...





speakin of traction. anyone ever consider poolin more serious funds and gettin bradblog periodically published? like FAIR.org and EXTRA? or perhaps WITH FAIR.org? something to keep in mind for when the congresscritters, hoyt corporati and the internet fascists decide to limit and/or eliminate our access to each other. sooner or later, we're gonna come to terms with the fact that the only reason they haven't come after brad and all more aggressively (and nastily) is because they don't feel the need. yet.

COMMENT #75 [Permalink]

... David Lasagna said on 2/26/2010 @ 9:10 pm PT...





Dear Renzo @ haiku 73-- That's a capital "L" to you, Bub. Please don't talk about me being crazy in the third person. I'm right behind you. It feels weird. Especially when I'm feeling a little crazy. And no thank you on the implication that my dance isn't traction oriented. Avert.(from the Wizard of Earthsea) sincerely, scherzo p.s. (I don't mind if you write "fuckin'" out loud.)

COMMENT #76 [Permalink]

... czaragorn said on 2/27/2010 @ 9:17 am PT...





OT: Please check it out!

http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=vOhf3OvRXKg

I have nothing to add to that...

COMMENT #77 [Permalink]

... Ancient said on 2/28/2010 @ 7:29 am PT...





After noodling around federalist society web site this caught my eye: https://www.fed-soc.org/...ubID.1168/pub_detail.asp With the second round of snow my download time is slow so haven't watched it, but the names and synopsis are quite revealing. They also have a section on voting legislation.

COMMENT #78 [Permalink]

... b said on 3/1/2010 @ 5:21 am PT...





You like the word blistering.

COMMENT #79 [Permalink]

... Nick Danger said on 3/10/2010 @ 12:46 pm PT...





You, Brad, are a liar. As is your president.

COMMENT #80 [Permalink]

... Brad Friedman said on 3/10/2010 @ 5:56 pm PT...





Nick Danger - Ouch! You shore skeweled me with that one! A very well supported argument. As to "my" President, well, yeah, I do live in the United States, and this one, unlike the previous, does appear to have actually been elected. So yeah, he is my President. Whose yours?

COMMENT #81 [Permalink]

... evision said on 3/12/2010 @ 2:16 am PT...

