jjw Profile Joined July 2011 Korea (South) 6 Posts Last Edited: 2011-08-12 23:19:06 #1 Mod Note: This is an opinion article on the NASL situation by Thisisgame. However, the writer of this article is a member on the advisory board of s2con.



Update: Added more complete translation to OP



NASL.tv's reply:



+ Show Spoiler + Would like to respond to some of these points. While not this is not an official statement of SC2Con, it does bring up serious points of contention.



They told that they will pay back it but still players who join the tournament didn't get it. NASL also require more deposit($500) in the next season



1) Our contract states that all prizes//stipend//deposit will be paid and refunded within 60 days of the tournament finish. This contract was signed by every Korean team manager and player that played in Season 1. Further, we have already paid back all the security deposits of Korean teams for Season 1, in addition to the deposits of players who were slated not to return for Season 2.



If anyone doubts this claim -- feel free to contact Artosis, Grubby, Liquid (who paid for the oGs Season 1 deposit), HuK (who paid for Boxer's deposit), Rainbow (who paid his own deposit), and WeMadeFox.



As of yesterday, all these payments were completed, which is still 1 month within our target deadline to send all payments.



Second there were no care about Korean players who join the NASL. Korean top player like Boxer, moon, mc, Nada but they should overcome the parallax and they had terrible condiction to play game and schedule was changed and it made things worse.



2) The Korean players were made very well aware of our schedule before Season 1. Players were expected to wake up once per week to play a match at 4-8am. The schedule for Season 2 was even slightly adjusted to make it more bearable for Korean players, with games starting at 2am KST (which we gathered from talking to some Korean players, was a more reasonable time).



The Grand Finall was even worse. Players had to pay all of the bill for transportation, lodging, and meal. NASL gave $500 to each player who join the Grand Final but it just half of tickets and lodging. Some players can slove it to deduction in their prize. Then they can get the ticket and lodging



3) This is completely false. The Korean teams expressed difficulty in attending the Grand Finals, so we offered to buy their tickets for them, and reserve their hotels for them, and arrange shuttle service for them. We spent $1,192 for each of the tickets we bought for Korean players (MC, Zenio, Squirtle, PuMa). Each hotel room cost $350, and the shuttle service to and from LAX airport averaged out to approximately $80 per players. We wrote, and had the letter translated into Korean, that we would be happy to do this for them to solve the problem of attending, and then deduct this from their travel stipends and prize. The four players who we bought tickets for expressly agreed to this. Moon, Boxer, July, and aLive made separate travel arrangements.



Even they get huge benifits to their online bordcasting but they didn't treated well who play in the NASL.



4) Benefit is always two ways. Hosting a league such as this is a mutually beneficial relationship. The league benefits by having the players play, and the players benefit by the amount of exposure playing gives them. Leagues such as the NASL, GSL, and MLG are the avenues in which players can compete and make their names known to the world.



We absolutely love interacting with the Korean players and having them play in our league. We put serious strains on our budget, not only in Season 1, but moving forward in Season 2, to try to accommodate the Koreans so that they can play in our league. We hate to see them withdrawing and this is the last thing we want.



So Korean teams and player require to NASL to remove the deposit and solve the problem about airplane tickets and lodging but they didn't accecpted it



5) We have offered $2,000 per player to attend the finals. We've offered a deal already where we would pay for flights, hotel, and travel (with those fees deducted from earning).



On August 13 2011 01:48 BaekHo wrote:

This is NOT an OFFICIAL statement.



구체적인 내용을 통해 한국 선수들이 NASL에 불참하게 된 이유를 설명한다. 먼저 NASL은 대회 출전을 위한 보증금 지급을 요구했다. NASL은 지난 4월 중순부터 6월 중순까지 2개월 동안 온라인으로 조별 풀리그를 진행하면서 출전 선수들에게 1인당 250달러(한화 약 27만원)를 받았다.



They (GOM and SC2Con) explained why Koreans do NOT participate in NASL. First of all, NASL asked security Deposit. Starting mid April to mid May, (about 2 month) during online premid leagues, they gathered about 250$ per each players.



보증금은 대회가 진행된 이후 돌려줄 것이라고 했지만 대회에 출전한 선수들은 아직까지도 보증금을 돌려받지 못하고 있는 상태다. NASL은 여기에서 그치지 않고 시즌2부터는 보증금을 1인당 500달러(한화 약 54만)로 2배나 올렸다.



Although NASL.tv said that they will pay security deposit money back, players didn't get their money back. Also, NASL.tv raised security deposit money twice of last season to 500$, compare to last season (250$)





초창기 가 출시됐을 때 PC방에서 진행하던 이벤트 대회도 출전 선수들에게 돈을 받지는 않았다. 하물며 프로 선수가 출전하는 대회가 선수들에게 보증금을 요구한다는 것 자체가 상식적으로 이해가 되지 않는 행태다.



When Starcraft first came out (not sure if hes referring to SC1 or SCll), even small LAN events done in internet cafe, they didnt have entry fee (I believe its SCl), yet huge league where all progamers attending asking for security deposit is abusive.



두 번째 NASL 출전 선수에 대한 배려다. 한국 선수들은 NASL 시즌1에 임요환(슬레이어스), 장재호(폭스), 장민철, 이윤열(이상 oGs) 등 정상급 선수가 10명이나 출전했다. 하지만 이들이 온라인 방송을 진행하는 현지 시간에 맞춰 경기를 치르느라 새벽같이 일어나 경기에 임했다. 이로 인해 선수들은 최악의 컨디션에서 경기를 치러야 했고, 이마저도 정해진 일정이 변경되면서 제대로 치러지지 않는 경우까지 발생했다.



Secondly, players having hard time playing in NASL. In the first NASL Season, top Korean players like Boxer, moon, nada played in NASL. However, because of live cast, players had to wake about 4am every time there was tournament match - which caused players to be in low concentration and tiredness. Also, there were some case where schedule changed, and they did not play.





NASL에 출전했던 선수들은 비슷한 시기에 경기를 진행한 TSL3과 비교해 NASL의 경기 진행 방식에 대해 불만을 표하기도 했다. 게다가 온라인 대회 진행인 관계로 매 경기 렉(지연 현상)도 심했다.



Players who played in NASL thought that way that TSL3 scheduled matches were supportive than NASL did. Since it was Online tournament, every games had delays. (high latency)





미국 현지에서 진행된 그랜드파이널의 경우는 더욱 엉망이었다. 선수들은 미국으로 이동하는 비행기와 숙박, 식사 등 모든 비용을 본인이 직접 해결해야 했다. NASL 측은 그랜드파이널에 출전하는 선수들을 위해 1인당 500달러씩 제공하겠다고 이야기했지만 출전에 필요한 경비의 절반에도 미치지 못한다. 이에 일부 선수들은 자신의 대회 상금에서 공제하기로 약속하고 나서야 비행기표와 숙소를 해결할 수 있었다.



Grandfinal in US was even more disturbing. Players had to play from their own expenses in order to go States (Flight ticket, Hotel, Food). NASL.tv said that for each player, who is going to States, they will support with 500$ US, but it was not even half amount of travel expenses. So some players promised to pay their expenses from money that they will win after the tournament, get money from NASL; then, had barely enough money for flight ticket and hotel.





또한, NASL은 LA공항에 도착한 한국 선수들이 대회가 열리는 현장으로 이동하는 과정에서 80달러의 픽업 비용을 받은 것으로 확인됐다.



Also we checked NASL get $80 for pickup fees to drive LA airport through the convention center.





그 들은 NASL 온라인 방송을 유료(저화질은 무료)로 서비스하면서 막대한 이익을 얻었음에도 자신들의 수익을 위해 최고의 콘텐츠를 제공한 선수들은 홀대한 셈이다.



Even though NASL made a lot of profits throughout HQ (LQ was free), for their own profits, they were neglected about players.





이 에 한국의 게임단과 선수들은 NASL 측에 보증금을 없앨 것과 그랜드파이널 참가를 위한 항공, 숙박, 체제 비용의 제공을 요구했지만 거절당했다.



Thus, Korean pro gaming teams and players asked NASL to reduce or delete security deposit money and support travel expenses, but got refused.





NASL은 공지를 통해 1인당 그랜드파이널 출전 비용으로 이전의 2배인 1천 달러(한화 약 108만원)를 지급하겠다고 했으나 이는 미국행 비행기표를 구입하기도 부족한 금액이다. 또한, 여행 비용 1천 달러를 포함해 2천 달러(한화 약 216만원)를 분배하겠다고 최종적으로 제안했지만 확인 결과 이는 대회의 우승 상금을 삭감하고 지급하기로 한 것으로, 결국 선수들에게 지급해야 할 금액을 조정해서 위기를 면하기 위한 ‘조삼모사’에 불과했다.



NASL.tv said (throughout bulletin) for each players who will be playing in GrandFinal, they will going to support with 1000$ US, compare to Season 1 of 500$, but 1000$ is not even enough for flight ticket to United States. Also, they said, including 1000$ travel expenses, they will pay extra 2000$, but apparently NASL.tv decide to reduce price pool in order to give extra travel expenses. (Eventually providing players about same amount of money)





최근 한국 선수들이 잇따라 해외 팀으로 이적하고 있고 다수의 해외 대회에 출전하고 있다. 하지만 이에 대한 보다 신중한 접근이 필요하다. NASL의 경우와 마찬가지로 한국 선수들은 최상의 콘텐츠를 공급할 수 있는 좋은 돈벌이 수단이다. 그러나 그들은 한국 선수들을 자신들의 돈벌이에 이용하면서 정당한 대가를 지불하지도 않는다.



Nowadays, many Korean players decide to step outside of Korea and join foreign team, and play in foreign tournament. However, we need to be careful about this. Tournament like NASL show the case that Korean players can show high level of game play, attracting lots of people; However, they only use Korean players in order to make money for their own and not being supportive for players.



곰 TV는 한국 선수들의 해외 진출과 해외 우수 선수들의 한국 활동을 위해 다양한 연계 프로그램을 실시하고 있다. MLG 콜럼버스, MLG 애너하임에 이어 MLG 롤리를 진행하는 MLG가 대표적이며 8월 중순에는 IEM도 열릴 예정이다.



GomTV is proposing many new ideas in order to keep foreign team, players active in Korea and help Korean players to play outside of Korea. MLG columbus, MLG anaheim, MLG event is one of the example of GomTV stepping outside of Korea, and there will be IEM tournament at mid-august.



선 수들에게 해외 대회 출전은 보다 넓은 세상을 경험하고 해외의 우수한 선수들과 승부를 겨룰 수 있는 좋은 기회임에 틀림없다. 그렇지만 본인이 프로라는 사실을 잊지 말고 아마추어 같은 대회는 과감하게 출전을 포기하는 결단이 필요하다.



Of course, its very good opportunities for players to play in foreign tournament which will give them chances to play against good foreign players and experience foreign community, but it is important to not forget that they are 'pro' gamers and not participate in amateur tournament. (NOTE: Although this sound offensive, i believe he meant amateur tournament as NOT skill wise, he doesn't seem to think foreign players are scrubs, he thinks that amateur tournament are those who doesn't provide player's environment very well)



NASL 은 올 초 시즌1 10만 달러(한화 약 1억 800만원), 시즌2 10만 달러, 시즌3 20만 달러(한화 약 2억 1천 600만원) 등 총 상금 40만 달러(한화 약 4억 3천 200만원)를 걸고 세계 최상위 클래스의 선수들을 초청해 대회를 만들겠다고 밝혔다. 하지만 지금까지 보여준 그들의 행태는 세계 최고의 선수들을 활용해 ‘재주는 선수들이 부리고 돈은 NASL이 벌겠다’는 잔꾀에 지나지 않다.



NASL said in beginning of the year that first season will 100,000$, second season 100,000$, and third season for 200,000$, total of 400,000$ and have all top class players to play in Tournament. However, from what they have shown, all their desire is 'players play game, and NASL make more money'.



마지막으로 NASL은 지금이라도 대회 운영을 포기하던지, 세계 최고의 선수들이 출전하는 위상에 걸맞은 모습과 대회 운영을 보여주길 바란다.



Finally I hope (reporter) NASL stop Tournaments, or supports players better, and be better in tournament operating.



한편, NASL 시즌1에 출전한 선수들의 보증금은 아직까지 지급되지 않았고, 상금 역시 지급되지 않았다. 또한, 한국 게임단은 최근 FXOpen과 병합한 FXOKorea를 제외하고 모든 팀과 선수들이 NASL 시즌2에 출전하지 않기로 결정했다.



On the other hand, players who played in NASL Season 1 didnt get their security deposit and pay check (from winning tournament). Also, SC2Con decide that except FXOKorea who emerged with FXOpen, all teams and players decide not to participate in Season ll of NASL . (This paragraph is Fact, not opinion, I believe.)







+ Show Spoiler [OP\'s translation] + 구체적인 내용을 통해 한국 선수들이 NASL에 불참하게 된 이유를 설명한다. 먼저 NASL은 대회 출전을 위한 보증금 지급을 요구했다. NASL은 지난 4월 중순부터 6월 중순까지 2개월 동안 온라인으로 조별 풀리그를 진행하면서 출전 선수들에게 1인당 250달러(한화 약 27만원)를 받았다.



Here is the reason why Korean players will not join the NASL. First NASL require deposit(250bucks) to join the tournament.





보증금은 대회가 진행된 이후 돌려줄 것이라고 했지만 대회에 출전한 선수들은 아직까지도 보증금을 돌려받지 못하고 있는 상태다. NASL은 여기에서 그치지 않고 시즌2부터는 보증금을 1인당 500달러(한화 약 54만)로 2배나 올렸다.



They told that they will pay back it but still players who join the tournament didn't get it. NASL also require more deposit($500) in the next season







초창기 가 출시됐을 때 PC방에서 진행하던 이벤트 대회도 출전 선수들에게 돈을 받지는 않았다. 하물며 프로 선수가 출전하는 대회가 선수들에게 보증금을 요구한다는 것 자체가 상식적으로 이해가 되지 않는 행태다.



There were some amateur tournament in Korea before the e-sport grew big. But they didn't require any deposit. However NASL is contest that pro players joining but they can't understand how they could do that





두 번째 NASL 출전 선수에 대한 배려다. 한국 선수들은 NASL 시즌1에 임요환(슬레이어스), 장재호(폭스), 장민철, 이윤열(이상 oGs) 등 정상급 선수가 10명이나 출전했다. 하지만 이들이 온라인 방송을 진행하는 현지 시간에 맞춰 경기를 치르느라 새벽같이 일어나 경기에 임했다. 이로 인해 선수들은 최악의 컨디션에서 경기를 치러야 했고, 이마저도 정해진 일정이 변경되면서 제대로 치러지지 않는 경우까지 발생했다.



Second there were no care about Korean players who join the NASL. Korean top player like Boxer, moon, mc, Nada but they should overcome the parallax and they had terrible condiction to play game and schedule was changed and it made things worse.





NASL에 출전했던 선수들은 비슷한 시기에 경기를 진행한 TSL3과 비교해 NASL의 경기 진행 방식에 대해 불만을 표하기도 했다. 게다가 온라인 대회 진행인 관계로 매 경기 렉(지연 현상)도 심했다.



Also player disapointed NASL compare the TSL3 and their some lacks that made hard to play on the online





미국 현지에서 진행된 그랜드파이널의 경우는 더욱 엉망이었다. 선수들은 미국으로 이동하는 비행기와 숙박, 식사 등 모든 비용을 본인이 직접 해결해야 했다. NASL 측은 그랜드파이널에 출전하는 선수들을 위해 1인당 500달러씩 제공하겠다고 이야기했지만 출전에 필요한 경비의 절반에도 미치지 못한다. 이에 일부 선수들은 자신의 대회 상금에서 공제하기로 약속하고 나서야 비행기표와 숙소를 해결할 수 있었다.



The Grand Finall was even worse. Players had to pay all of the bill for transportation, lodging, and meal. NASL gave $500 to each player who join the Grand Final but it just half of tickets and lodging. Some players can slove it to deduction in their prize. Then they can get the ticket and lodging





또한, NASL은 LA공항에 도착한 한국 선수들이 대회가 열리는 현장으로 이동하는 과정에서 80달러의 픽업 비용을 받은 것으로 확인됐다.



Also we checked NASL get $80 for pickup fees to drive LA airport through the convention center.





그들은 NASL 온라인 방송을 유료(저화질은 무료)로 서비스하면서 막대한 이익을 얻었음에도 자신들의 수익을 위해 최고의 콘텐츠를 제공한 선수들은 홀대한 셈이다.



Even they get huge benifits to their online bordcasting but they didn't treated well who play in the NASL.





이에 한국의 게임단과 선수들은 NASL 측에 보증금을 없앨 것과 그랜드파이널 참가를 위한 항공, 숙박, 체제 비용의 제공을 요구했지만 거절당했다.



So Korean teams and player require to NASL to remove the deposit and solve the problem about airplane tickets and lodging but they didn't accecpted it





NASL은 공지를 통해 1인당 그랜드파이널 출전 비용으로 이전의 2배인 1천 달러(한화 약 108만원)를 지급하겠다고 했으나 이는 미국행 비행기표를 구입하기도 부족한 금액이다. 또한, 여행 비용 1천 달러를 포함해 2천 달러(한화 약 216만원)를 분배하겠다고 최종적으로 제안했지만 확인 결과 이는 대회의 우승 상금을 삭감하고 지급하기로 한 것으로, 결국 선수들에게 지급해야 할 금액을 조정해서 위기를 면하기 위한 ‘조삼모사’에 불과했다.



They told us they will give $1000 who join the Grand Final but it's not enough to get ticket and they finally said they will give $2000 but they also they remove $1000 into the prize.







It's too~~~~ hard...... I'm sorry for my poor english but I think other article is not that important and it's about MLG and GSL's relationship so it's not bad things but if you still wonder then you can use google translater.

Here is opinion of Korean teams and Korean players about this situation. I'm not usually online in TL so I can't translate anymore.

I'm so said that you guys can't hear some news about Korean e sport (ex:Did you remember the complaint of Slayers Jessica I want to talk about it but I have no time to talk about and pls don't blieve everything that people said.)





최근 한국 선수들이 잇따라 해외 팀으로 이적하고 있고 다수의 해외 대회에 출전하고 있다. 하지만 이에 대한 보다 신중한 접근이 필요하다. NASL의 경우와 마찬가지로 한국 선수들은 최상의 콘텐츠를 공급할 수 있는 좋은 돈벌이 수단이다. 그러나 그들은 한국 선수들을 자신들의 돈벌이에 이용하면서 정당한 대가를 지불하지도 않는다.







곰TV는 한국 선수들의 해외 진출과 해외 우수 선수들의 한국 활동을 위해 다양한 연계 프로그램을 실시하고 있다. MLG 콜럼버스, MLG 애너하임에 이어 MLG 롤리를 진행하는 MLG가 대표적이며 8월 중순에는 IEM도 열릴 예정이다.







선수들에게 해외 대회 출전은 보다 넓은 세상을 경험하고 해외의 우수한 선수들과 승부를 겨룰 수 있는 좋은 기회임에 틀림없다. 그렇지만 본인이 프로라는 사실을 잊지 말고 아마추어 같은 대회는 과감하게 출전을 포기하는 결단이 필요하다.







NASL은 올 초 시즌1 10만 달러(한화 약 1억 800만원), 시즌2 10만 달러, 시즌3 20만 달러(한화 약 2억 1천 600만원) 등 총 상금 40만 달러(한화 약 4억 3천 200만원)를 걸고 세계 최상위 클래스의 선수들을 초청해 대회를 만들겠다고 밝혔다. 하지만 지금까지 보여준 그들의 행태는 세계 최고의 선수들을 활용해 ‘재주는 선수들이 부리고 돈은 NASL이 벌겠다’는 잔꾀에 지나지 않다.







마지막으로 NASL은 지금이라도 대회 운영을 포기하던지, 세계 최고의 선수들이 출전하는 위상에 걸맞은 모습과 대회 운영을 보여주길 바란다.







한편, NASL 시즌1에 출전한 선수들의 보증금은 아직까지 지급되지 않았고, 상금 역시 지급되지 않았다. 또한, 한국 게임단은 최근 FXOpen과 병합한 FXOKorea를 제외하고 모든 팀과 선수들이 NASL 시즌2에 출전하지 않기로 결정했다.









I'm sorry about my title to SC2Korean team. It actually SC2Team organazation's opinion. So It may not contain all team's opinion(ex Slayers, FXO) but actually it's close to opinion of SC2Teams

Primadog Profile Blog Joined April 2010 United States 4408 Posts Last Edited: 2011-08-12 07:07:23 #2 Seems like the Korean side collaborates with what the NASL release said (abate with a different attitude). It's unfortunate that the scene has not become sufficiently big that travel cease to be an issue.



Shows how fragile StarCraft 2 remains and how much more it has to grow in order to become a proper competitive sport. Thank God and gunrun.

SenorChang Profile Blog Joined October 2010 Australia 4606 Posts Last Edited: 2011-08-12 07:13:01 #3 On August 12 2011 16:07 Primadog wrote:

Seems like the Korean side collaborates with what the NASL release said (abate with a different attitude). It's unfortunate that the scene has not become sufficiently big that travel cease to be an issue.



Shows how fragile StarCraft 2 remains and how much more it has to grow in order to become a proper competitive sport.

Need an airline to sponsor Sc2!

yee!



Thanks for translating



I can fully understand where the koreans come from withdrawing for NASL. The conditions for them are so poor, with having to get up at 4am to play their games, over the course of 3 months - then fly across the globe to lose 1 set and be out of it (felt bad for Ret too :< - first seed and out so fast with no chance at redemption) - and with the stipend deal they will essentially have earned nothing for it.



Really wish NASL would re-do their tournament structure.



Need an airline to sponsor Sc2!yee!Thanks for translatingI can fully understand where the koreans come from withdrawing for NASL. The conditions for them are so poor, with having to get up at 4am to play their games, over the course of 3 months - then fly across the globe to lose 1 set and be out of it (felt bad for Ret too :< - first seed and out so fast with no chance at redemption) - and with the stipend deal they will essentially have earned nothing for it.Really wish NASL would re-do their tournament structure. ლ(╹◡╹ლ)

HeeroFX Profile Blog Joined November 2010 United States 2619 Posts #4 Seems like they justified pulling out very well in this statement. It makes sense imo.

JoeSchmoe Profile Joined May 2010 Canada 2026 Posts #5 On August 12 2011 16:07 Primadog wrote:

Seems like the Korean side collaborates with what the NASL release said (abate with a different attitude). It's unfortunate that the scene has not become sufficiently big that travel cease to be an issue.



Shows how fragile StarCraft 2 remains and how much more it has to grow in order to become a proper competitive sport.



there is some inconsistency. the koreans say that NASL hasn't paid the prize/security deposit. NASL said it's in their 60 day policy. if the koreans knew this, it seems unreasonable to bring this up in the argument. I wonder if there was some miscommunication? Were the koreans aware of the NASL policies from the beginning? there is some inconsistency. the koreans say that NASL hasn't paid the prize/security deposit. NASL said it's in their 60 day policy. if the koreans knew this, it seems unreasonable to bring this up in the argument. I wonder if there was some miscommunication? Were the koreans aware of the NASL policies from the beginning?

oniman999 Profile Joined May 2011 United States 161 Posts #6 If they don't want to come steal 50 grand, it's their fault :/ I see their side of it though, sponsors in Korea are hard to come by, and that makes traveling hard. I think this really hurts NASL, it hurts Koreans, and it hurts the viewers. I think this goes to show how hard it is to start and maintain a league, and maybe we'll see the NA scene become more like Korea and have one major tournament rather than several smaller ones. If I had to take my guess, MLG would be that league! I don't mean to be a doomsayer though, and I do hope NASL does well and I will continue to watch because the games last season were awesome!

Carush Profile Joined June 2011 United States 352 Posts #7 meh i don't see why this is nasl's fault



international flights are absurdly expensive and it just kinda sucks that way :/

Primadog Profile Blog Joined April 2010 United States 4408 Posts Last Edited: 2011-08-12 07:23:48 #8 The damage it'll cause to the viewers and the world SC2 scene are my biggest concern of this whole mess, oniman999. It'll be costly for NASL to replace the Koreans - since NASL.TV revealed that season 2 has begun production, not only will they need to find new players, they'll have to replace art assets, graphics, promotionals, scheduling. It's simply a huge mess on their hands.



What is worse though, is if SC2Con maintain this stance for all international tournaments - that it's up to the tournaments, not the teams, to foot the entire traveling expense for all korean invitees - what it'll do to the entire SC2 scene.



That's simply not how the economy of StarCraft works, even back in BW. It's a strange and unfortunate stance to take. I hope I am just extrapolatiing, but that'll definitely re-fracture the korean and foreigner scene after the years the community spent meshing them together. Thank God and gunrun.

HeeroFX Profile Blog Joined November 2010 United States 2619 Posts #9 On August 12 2011 16:13 oniman999 wrote:

If they don't want to come steal 50 grand, it's their fault :/ I see their side of it though, sponsors in Korea are hard to come by, and that makes traveling hard. I think this really hurts NASL, it hurts Koreans, and it hurts the viewers. I think this goes to show how hard it is to start and maintain a league, and maybe we'll see the NA scene become more like Korea and have one major tournament rather than several smaller ones. If I had to take my guess, MLG would be that league! I don't mean to be a doomsayer though, and I do hope NASL does well and I will continue to watch because the games last season were awesome!









Idk if it hurts the koreans, because right now GSL Code A and Code S are the exclusive place to be in SC 2. But with that being said, I don't think this hurts the NASL. I think if they have a good balance of European and NA, LA players it will be fine. I mean the NASL needs to gain respect and pestige for Koreans to really want to be playing in the NASL. And most of all the NASL needs good games. If there are good games in the NASL we will watch it. Idk if it hurts the koreans, because right now GSL Code A and Code S are the exclusive place to be in SC 2. But with that being said, I don't think this hurts the NASL. I think if they have a good balance of European and NA, LA players it will be fine. I mean the NASL needs to gain respect and pestige for Koreans to really want to be playing in the NASL. And most of all the NASL needs good games. If there are good games in the NASL we will watch it.

.Aar Profile Joined September 2010 Korea (South) 2116 Posts Last Edited: 2011-08-12 07:24:23 #10 On August 12 2011 16:18 Carush wrote:

meh i don't see why this is nasl's fault



international flights are absurdly expensive and it just kinda sucks that way :/



For all the enmity I bear towards NASL, I simply don't see how it's their fault at all.



Want to go to a tournament and pick up some free money? Then go. Don't expect the tournament administrators to pay for your trip and give you a ride to the venue on their backs. For all the enmity I bear towards NASL, I simply don't see how it's their fault at all.Want to go to a tournament and pick up some free money? Then go. Don't expect the tournament administrators to pay for your trip and give you a ride to the venue on their backs. now run into the setting sun, and suffer, but don't mess up your hair.

1biza Profile Joined May 2011 United States 28 Posts #11 Did they seriously charge them $80 for the airport shuttle? It was completely free for my buddy and I, and we stayed at the same hotel.

vertical101 Profile Joined April 2011 Hong Kong 310 Posts Last Edited: 2011-08-12 07:56:35 #12 koreans demand is too much. how about those foreign teams who pay for themselves to attend other tournaments. always korean,korean,korean. SC2con is so harsh, NASL is still new they expect too much. if travel stipend is the only issue they shouldnt bring other stuff like condition,schedule,Puma not getting his money yet (GSL champion have to wait for months before they get their prize money)

and i think the reason for some players not receiving the deposit is because they gonna use S1 players deposit to Season 2?



and if Mr.Chae is realy part of sc2con he should have stop this from happening. he know what its feels like that some organization KILL your tournaments (kespa vs GOM in BW)

Emporio Profile Blog Joined December 2010 United States 2808 Posts #13 I'm just wondering, who is this statement by? How does it feel knowing you wasted another 3 seconds of your life reading this again?

Diglett Profile Blog Joined February 2011 600 Posts #14 so why did they play in the qualifiers in the first place? if you don't want to join, just don't join.

EchoZ Profile Blog Joined October 2010 Singapore 4008 Posts #15 On August 12 2011 16:23 vertical101 wrote:

koreans demand is too much. how about those foreign teams who pay for themselves to attend other tournaments. always korean,korea,korean



Not all Korean teams can afford to fork out such amounts. Besides, GOM and MLG have previously sponsored players back and forth, with GOM taking the extra step with the teamhouse, so I fail to see why NASL can't? Not all Korean teams can afford to fork out such amounts. Besides, GOM and MLG have previously sponsored players back and forth, with GOM taking the extra step with the teamhouse, so I fail to see why NASL can't? Dear Sixsmith...

fraktoasters Profile Joined January 2011 United States 617 Posts Last Edited: 2011-08-12 07:31:38 #16 On August 12 2011 16:23 vertical101 wrote:

koreans demand is too much. how about those foreign teams who pay for themselves to attend other tournaments. always korean,korean,korean. SC2con is so harsh, NASL is still new they expect too much.



this is a pretty ridiculous statement when you remember all the things Gom provides to foreigners in the gom foreigner house.





this is a pretty ridiculous statement when you remember all the things Gom provides to foreigners in the gom foreigner house. On August 12 2011 16:13 oniman999 wrote:

If they don't want to come steal 50 grand, it's their fault :/ I see their side of it though, sponsors in Korea are hard to come by, and that makes traveling hard. I think this really hurts NASL, it hurts Koreans, and it hurts the viewers. I think this goes to show how hard it is to start and maintain a league, and maybe we'll see the NA scene become more like Korea and have one major tournament rather than several smaller ones. If I had to take my guess, MLG would be that league! I don't mean to be a doomsayer though, and I do hope NASL does well and I will continue to watch because the games last season were awesome!



The person that "stole" 50 grand was the one that didn't have to play in the middle of the night for 3 months. A lot of pain and effort over 3 months -> paying for your own trip to CA -> losing in the first round -> losing money for all the effort you had to put into nasl, all while someone from the open bracket gets 1st. The person that "stole" 50 grand was the one that didn't have to play in the middle of the night for 3 months. A lot of pain and effort over 3 months -> paying for your own trip to CA -> losing in the first round -> losing money for all the effort you had to put into nasl, all while someone from the open bracket gets 1st.

chaopow Profile Joined March 2011 United States 556 Posts #17 This really is not NASL's fault, and its sad to see a little dip in the level of play in the NASL now, being that there are barely going to be koreans now. I think the koreans are being a little too selfish in the fact that they must benefit from this tournament or atleast break even in terms of money. Players from all over the U.S./World travel to go to MLG, and hell I doubt they even come close to placing, as most of the prize money goes to korean anyways. They probably end up losing money in the end either for themselves or for their team, as they would come up empty handed and still have to pay for hotels/plane tickets. Soowoo AD.

Nighthawks28 Profile Joined June 2011 United States 231 Posts #18 On August 12 2011 16:25 EchoZ wrote:

Show nested quote +

On August 12 2011 16:23 vertical101 wrote:

koreans demand is too much. how about those foreign teams who pay for themselves to attend other tournaments. always korean,korea,korean



Not all Korean teams can afford to fork out such amounts. Besides, GOM and MLG have previously sponsored players back and forth, with GOM taking the extra step with the teamhouse, so I fail to see why NASL can't? Not all Korean teams can afford to fork out such amounts. Besides, GOM and MLG have previously sponsored players back and forth, with GOM taking the extra step with the teamhouse, so I fail to see why NASL can't?



It's also expensive for players from Europe to travel to the US. But koreans demand everything to be paid for them and have all the arrangements done for them (remember when the korean players were mad about the previous dreamhack arrangements?). I understand that it's expensive but they are still demanding too much. Plenty of foreigners from Europe have to pay lots of money or find sponsers to go to play in MLG, which is a very tiny prize pool.

MLG and GSL have an arrangement where they pay for eachother (MLG pays for koreans, GSL pays for foreigners). It's also expensive for players from Europe to travel to the US. But koreans demand everything to be paid for them and have all the arrangements done for them (remember when the korean players were mad about the previous dreamhack arrangements?). I understand that it's expensive but they are still demanding too much. Plenty of foreigners from Europe have to pay lots of money or find sponsers to go to play in MLG, which is a very tiny prize pool.MLG and GSL have an arrangement where they pay for eachother (MLG pays for koreans, GSL pays for foreigners).

Adebisi Profile Blog Joined June 2010 Canada 1621 Posts #19 On August 12 2011 16:25 EchoZ wrote:

Show nested quote +

On August 12 2011 16:23 vertical101 wrote:

koreans demand is too much. how about those foreign teams who pay for themselves to attend other tournaments. always korean,korea,korean



Not all Korean teams can afford to fork out such amounts. Besides, GOM and MLG have previously sponsored players back and forth, with GOM taking the extra step with the teamhouse, so I fail to see why NASL can't? Not all Korean teams can afford to fork out such amounts. Besides, GOM and MLG have previously sponsored players back and forth, with GOM taking the extra step with the teamhouse, so I fail to see why NASL can't?

GOM was expecting Foreigners to come over and play in a $1500 qualification tournament that spanned a month.



NASL is having Koreans come for a shot at $50,000 over 3 days. (after playing in 10 weeks of online play)



Do you see how these two things are different?



NASL is obviously also a start up, I think what NASL offered while probably not ideal for some of the smaller Korean teams, I don't think its right that SC2Con comes in and declares them all out :/. Feels like the equivalent of eSports protectionism lol.



Either way TYVM for the translations, very interesting. GOM was expecting Foreigners to come over and play in a $1500 qualification tournament that spanned a month.NASL is having Koreans come for a shot at $50,000 over 3 days. (after playing in 10 weeks of online play)Do you see how these two things are different?NASL is obviously also a start up, I think what NASL offered while probably not ideal for some of the smaller Korean teams, I don't think its right that SC2Con comes in and declares them all out :/. Feels like the equivalent of eSports protectionism lol.Either way TYVM for the translations, very interesting.

hitpoint Profile Joined October 2010 United States 1511 Posts Last Edited: 2011-08-12 07:31:27 #20 On August 12 2011 16:25 EchoZ wrote:

Show nested quote +

On August 12 2011 16:23 vertical101 wrote:

koreans demand is too much. how about those foreign teams who pay for themselves to attend other tournaments. always korean,korea,korean



Not all Korean teams can afford to fork out such amounts. Besides, GOM and MLG have previously sponsored players back and forth, with GOM taking the extra step with the teamhouse, so I fail to see why NASL can't? Not all Korean teams can afford to fork out such amounts. Besides, GOM and MLG have previously sponsored players back and forth, with GOM taking the extra step with the teamhouse, so I fail to see why NASL can't?



MLG and GOM's situations can't be compared with NASL.



MLG only pays for 4 people.



Also the foreigners that go to GSL stand to win very little money, if any. The Koreans that would be coming over to NASL's top 16 can pretty easily make much more money than what they spent. MLG and GOM's situations can't be compared with NASL.MLG only pays for 4 people.Also the foreigners that go to GSL stand to win very little money, if any. The Koreans that would be coming over to NASL's top 16 can pretty easily make much more money than what they spent. It's spelled LOSE not LOOSE.

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