RobRoyder



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NewbieActivity: 28Merit: 0 Where's the money, Lebowski? December 06, 2015, 05:45:18 PM #1

Quote from: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=155000.0

Treasurers

March 19, 2013, 06:23:02 PM (edited June 11, 2015)



#1

The forum's bitcoins are currently held by the following people.



Person Amount Fee (monthly) Next fee payment Address

paraipan 250 0.208 2014-04-19 1PFkqgBBrSKikyyUGDerZMfzvCNPgKrR3o

Rassah 750 0 - 1HQ8WaKVRYXLBtVdMcYr5SHQ3X9BsLyxa1

OgNasty 500 0.5 2014-11-22 1Eog8UqRFLufC71rBLt2nYgfUDskgxAyVF

theymos ~4000 0 - 1M4yNbSCwSMFLF9BaLqzoo2to1WHtZrPke, et al.



Contracts

http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=33E6kJ46

http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=QKC7JWNJ

http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=sw7X4JK6

http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=XGyJFddU

http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=t9h2pL2y

http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=jkw3U4FU

http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=xfXYUHU3

TreasurersMarch 19, 2013, 06:23:02 PM (edited June 11, 2015)#1The forum's bitcoins are currently held by the following people.Person Amount Fee (monthly) Next fee payment Addressparaipan 250 0.208 2014-04-19 1PFkqgBBrSKikyyUGDerZMfzvCNPgKrR3oRassah 750 0 - 1HQ8WaKVRYXLBtVdMcYr5SHQ3X9BsLyxa1OgNasty 500 0.5 2014-11-22 1Eog8UqRFLufC71rBLt2nYgfUDskgxAyVFtheymos ~4000 0 - 1M4yNbSCwSMFLF9BaLqzoo2to1WHtZrPke, et al.Contracts

TL;DR: half of the addies are now empty.

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Quickseller

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Copper MemberLegendaryActivity: 2226Merit: 1953 Re: Where's the money, Lebowski? December 06, 2015, 06:03:30 PM #6 Regardless of if theymos wants to admit it or not, the forum's BTC most likely legally belongs to theymos.



I think it is somewhat of a moot point to ask where theymos's own money is. Unless of course the point of asking is to troll..... The head executive of the executive office of the department of the redundancy departments office

RobRoyder



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NewbieActivity: 28Merit: 0 Re: Where's the money, Lebowski? December 06, 2015, 06:09:31 PM #7 Quote from: Quickseller on December 06, 2015, 06:03:30 PM Regardless of if theymos wants to admit it or not, the forum's BTC most likely legally belongs to theymos.



I think it is somewhat of a moot point to ask where theymos's own money is. Unless of course the point of asking is to troll.....



>Regardless of if theymos wants to admit it or not

A detail quite relevant to teh taxman.



>Unless of course the point of asking is to troll

Please don't bother commenting on things you don't understand, unless, ofc, you're just trying to suck up to theymos. >Regardless of if theymos wants to admit it or notA detail quite relevant to teh taxman.>Unless of course the point of asking is to trollPlease don't bother commenting on things you don't understand, unless, ofc, you're just trying to suck up to theymos.

redsn0w



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#Free market







LegendaryActivity: 1778Merit: 1041#Free market Re: Where's the money, Lebowski? December 06, 2015, 07:45:25 PM #9 !





Maybe you are only jealous because you don't have or you will not have (ever) those btc/money. Another troll, fantasticMaybe you are only jealous because you don't have or you will not have (ever) those btc/money.

RobRoyder



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NewbieActivity: 28Merit: 0 Re: Where's the money, Lebowski? December 06, 2015, 07:51:31 PM #10 Quote from: Lauda on December 06, 2015, 07:10:18 PM After your last post it seems to me like you're trying to troll. Nobody likes trolls here. Regardless, is it really important where the money is? If so, why?

>is it really important where the money is?

Is how millions of $$$ in donations to bitcointalk was spent important?



>If so, why?

Because the money was not gifted to theymos, it was donated to bitcointalk.

Because the money is vanishing, with nothing to show for it.

Because it looks like a large chunk of the money, for which theymos is responsible, seems to be missing.

Because that shit is called embezzlement.

Because either you know and are being evasive, or you do not, in which case kindly not clutter up the thread. This means you too, redsn0w.

Need more? >is it really important where the money is?Is how millions of $$$ in donations to bitcointalk was spent important?>If so, why?Because the money was not gifted to theymos, it was donated to bitcointalk.Because the money is vanishing, with nothing to show for it.Because it looks like a large chunk of the money, for which theymos is responsible, seems to be missing.Because that shit is called embezzlement.Because either you know and are being evasive, or you do not, in which case kindly not clutter up the thread. This means you too, redsn0w.Need more?

theymos

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AdministratorLegendaryActivity: 3892Merit: 7919 Re: Where's the money, Lebowski? December 06, 2015, 08:48:29 PM #11



The rate ($85,417/month average as of the end of 2015) might seem high to people unfamiliar with professional software development, but it's normal. The project is quite a bit over-due and over-budget (the original estimate was 1 year and $1.2 million), but I've been constantly monitoring Slickage, and they've definitely been making solid, continual progress, so it seemed correct to continue to project. The vast majority of total forum revenue was from ads, not donations, but to the extent that donations were used: this software was in fact the main stated goal of donations.



As I've said before: I have absolutely no personal relationship to Slickage, and I receive no "kickbacks" whatsoever. I've never even met them in person. I first learned of Slickage from Warren Togami, who had previously done a lot of work for the forum and was himself recommended by gmaxwell and others. (I've also never met Warren in person.)



The current status of the software is that it's ~85% done. The core of it is entirely functional and often much better/faster than SMF, though there are still several missing features. There will be a public beta before the end of the month, I think, at which time I'll post more about what's left to be done. Also see The forum money I held has largely been spent now, mostly in the forum software project. Slickage was paid $100,000 per month in all of 2014 and until May in 2015. Since June 2015, they've been paid $50,000 per month. The exchange rate varied substantially throughout this period, but the end result is that most of the BTC was spent.The rate ($85,417/month average as of the end of 2015) might seem high to people unfamiliar with professional software development, but it's normal. The project is quite a bit over-due and over-budget (the original estimate was 1 year and $1.2 million), but I've been constantly monitoring Slickage, and they've definitely been making solid, continual progress, so it seemed correct to continue to project. The vast majority of total forum revenue was from ads, not donations, but to the extent that donations were used: this software was in fact the main stated goal of donations.As I've said before: I have absolutely no personal relationship to Slickage, and I receive no "kickbacks" whatsoever. I've never even met them in person. I first learned of Slickage from Warren Togami, who had previously done a lot of work for the forum and was himself recommended by gmaxwell and others. (I've also never met Warren in person.)The current status of the software is that it's ~85% done. The core of it is entirely functional and often much better/faster than SMF, though there are still several missing features. There will be a public beta before the end of the month, I think, at which time I'll post more about what's left to be done. Also see http://epochtalk.org/ for more info. 1NXYoJ5xU91Jp83XfVMHwwTUyZFK64BoAD

RobRoyder



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NewbieActivity: 28Merit: 0 Re: Where's the money, Lebowski? December 06, 2015, 10:46:12 PM #12 Quote from: theymos on December 06, 2015, 08:48:29 PM



The rate ($85,417/month average as of the end of 2015) might seem high to people unfamiliar with professional software development, but it's normal. The project is quite a bit over-due and over-budget (the original estimate was 1 year and $1.2 million), but I've been constantly monitoring Slickage, and they've definitely been making solid, continual progress, so it seemed correct to continue to project. The vast majority of total forum revenue was from ads, not donations, but to the extent that donations were used: this software was in fact the main stated goal of donations.



As I've said before: I have absolutely no personal relationship to Slickage, and I receive no "kickbacks" whatsoever. I've never even met them in person. I first learned of Slickage from Warren Togami, who had previously done a lot of work for the forum and was himself recommended by gmaxwell and others. (I've also never met Warren in person.)



The current status of the software is that it's ~85% done. The core of it is entirely functional and often much better/faster than SMF, though there are still several missing features. There will be a public beta before the end of the month, I think, at which time I'll post more about what's left to be done. Also see

The forum money I held has largely been spent now, mostly in the forum software project. Slickage was paid $100,000 per month in all of 2014 and until May in 2015. Since June 2015, they've been paid $50,000 per month. The exchange rate varied substantially throughout this period, but the end result is that most of the BTC was spent.The rate ($85,417/month average as of the end of 2015) might seem high to people unfamiliar with professional software development, but it's normal. The project is quite a bit over-due and over-budget (the original estimate was 1 year and $1.2 million), but I've been constantly monitoring Slickage, and they've definitely been making solid, continual progress, so it seemed correct to continue to project. The vast majority of total forum revenue was from ads, not donations, but to the extent that donations were used: this software was in fact the main stated goal of donations.As I've said before: I have absolutely no personal relationship to Slickage, and I receive no "kickbacks" whatsoever. I've never even met them in person. I first learned of Slickage from Warren Togami, who had previously done a lot of work for the forum and was himself recommended by gmaxwell and others. (I've also never met Warren in person.)The current status of the software is that it's ~85% done. The core of it is entirely functional and often much better/faster than SMF, though there are still several missing features. There will be a public beta before the end of the month, I think, at which time I'll post more about what's left to be done. Also see http://epochtalk.org/ for more info.

Speechless.

So what you're telling me is you have sent $1,950,000, nearly two million dollars, to someone you've "never even met them in person," a dead landing page,



Is there a fancy GPG-signed contract "non-legal agreement between The Bitcoin Forum ("Forum") and Slickage [...] intended to be enforced in a non-violent, non-legal way by the community"?

Or was this a handshake deal? I take it the drop to 50k/mo is the late completion clause?

Anyhow, cool story bro, but hope you don't expect it to fly IRL.

Speechless.So what you're telling me is you have sent $1,950,000, nearly two million dollars, to someone you've "never even met them in person," a dead landing page, http://slickage.com/ ? And this, the most expensive forum software ever, isn't finished yet? And you're still sending 50k/mo to this Slickage?Is there a fancy GPG-signed"non-legal agreement between The Bitcoin Forum ("Forum") and Slickage [...] intended to be enforced in a non-violent, non-legal way by the community"?Or was this a handshake deal? I take it the drop to 50k/mo is the late completion clause?Anyhow, cool story bro, but hope you don't expect it to fly IRL.

shorena

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No I dont escrow anymore.







Copper MemberLegendaryActivity: 1498Merit: 1346No I dont escrow anymore. Re: Where's the money, Lebowski? December 07, 2015, 01:45:13 PM #14 Quote from: dogie on December 06, 2015, 11:36:39 PM Quote from: theymos on December 06, 2015, 08:48:29 PM The project is quite a bit over-due and over-budget (the original estimate was 1 year and $1.2 million)



It seems a bit backwards to how I would have expected a contractor to be remunerated.



1. I give you a project brief

2. You give me a quote

3. We agree on a price

4. I pay a portion upfront

5a. You deliver it on time

5b. You deliver it late

6. I pay you the remainder on delivery.



In either scenario they get paid the same - for doing the work that was agreed. Giving someone such a lucrative incentive to do work slower not to deliver seems a recipe for disaster.

It seems a bit backwards to how I would have expected a contractor to be remunerated.1. I give you a project brief2. You give me a quote3. We agree on a price4. I pay a portion upfront5a. You deliver it on time5b. You deliver it late6. I pay you the remainder on delivery.In either scenario they get paid the same - for doing the work that was agreed. Giving someone such a lucrative incentivenot to deliver seems a recipe for disaster.

If you want to see what happens if you give devs a too strick deadline look at videogame releases. Its common that projects (any really, not only software) take longer and require more money. The question is whether you want what you asked for or a set price. If you want exactly what you asked for or something as close as possible you will have to grand more time and/or money. You cant know all problems the developers will run into in advance. I am under the impression that theymos rather wants something solid than something thats done on time or done with a given amount of money. This has certainly limits, but as long as there are funds for the development I dont see an issue.



>inb4 Im brown nosing, have no idea, yadda yadda. If you want to see what happens if you give devs a too strick deadline look at videogame releases. Its common that projects (any really, not only software) take longer and require more money. The question is whether you want what you asked for or a set price. If you want exactly what you asked for or something as close as possible you will have to grand more time and/or money. You cant know all problems the developers will run into in advance. I am under the impression that theymos rather wants something solid than something thats done on time or done with a given amount of money. This has certainly limits, but as long as there are funds for the development I dont see an issue. Im not really here, its just your imagination.

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LegendaryActivity: 1568Merit: 1064 Re: Where's the money, Lebowski? December 07, 2015, 02:00:53 PM #15 Quote from: dogie on December 06, 2015, 11:36:39 PM Quote from: theymos on December 06, 2015, 08:48:29 PM The project is quite a bit over-due and over-budget (the original estimate was 1 year and $1.2 million)



It seems a bit backwards to how I would have expected a contractor to be remunerated.



1. I give you a project brief

2. You give me a quote

3. We agree on a price

4. I pay a portion upfront

5a. You deliver it on time

5b. You deliver it late

6. I pay you the remainder on delivery.



In either scenario they get paid the same - for doing the work that was agreed. Giving someone such a lucrative incentive to do work slower not to deliver seems a recipe for disaster.

It seems a bit backwards to how I would have expected a contractor to be remunerated.1. I give you a project brief2. You give me a quote3. We agree on a price4. I pay a portion upfront5a. You deliver it on time5b. You deliver it late6. I pay you the remainder on delivery.In either scenario they get paid the same - for doing the work that was agreed. Giving someone such a lucrative incentivenot to deliver seems a recipe for disaster.

It is the classic question on how to bill - time & material or fixed price.

In the list above, if your project brief changes even a little bit, you will have to figure out a way to incorporate it into your contract price (if you go in for a fixed price contract). I am sure the requirements have evolved as the project has progressed. It is the classic question on how to bill - time & material or fixed price.In the list above, if your project brief changes even a little bit, you will have to figure out a way to incorporate it into your contract price (if you go in for a fixed price contract). I am sure the requirements have evolved as the project has progressed.

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NewbieActivity: 28Merit: 0 Re: Where's the money, Lebowski? December 07, 2015, 02:53:00 PM #18 Quote from: shorena on December 07, 2015, 01:45:13 PM [...] I am under the impression that theymos rather wants something solid than something thats done on time or done with a given amount of money. This has certainly limits, but as long as there are funds for the development I dont see an issue.



>inb4 Im brown nosing, have no idea, yadda yadda.



Thus far, theymos has spent 2.3 million dollars to reinvent develop bulletin board forum software, which is still only "about 85% done."

"About 85% done" in devspeak is "In Two Weeks" in ASIC_manufacturer_speak.

If we treat everything theymos says at face value.



Which I do not. I refuse to believe that a man in his right mind would venture to spend millions on new forum software, when developed & tested open-source shareware exists. I refuse to believe that such a man would also find an obscure, zero-web-presence company, and, without ever even meeting the principals, send it $350k and $100k monthly thereafter. I refuse to believe that such a person exists.



Finished forum software, if it ever materializes, will just be a meaningless byproduct of making the donation coin spendable.

When you hear hooves, think horses. Thus far, theymos has spent 2.3 million dollars todevelopforum software, which is still only "about 85% done.""About 85% done" in devspeak is "In Two Weeks" in ASIC_manufacturer_speak.If we treat everything theymos says at face value.Which I do not. I refuse to believe that a man in his right mind would venture to spend millions on new forum software, when developed & tested open-source shareware exists. I refuse to believe that such a man would also find an obscure, zero-web-presence company, and, without ever even meeting the principals, send it $350k and $100k monthly thereafter. I refuse to believe that such a person exists.Finished forum software, if it ever materializes, will just be a meaningless byproduct of making the donation coin spendable.When you hear hooves, think horses.

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Casascius AddictLegendaryActivity: 2128Merit: 1119 Re: Where's the money, Lebowski? December 07, 2015, 02:58:16 PM #19 What else was he supposed to do with the money exactly? Theymos owns the forum and those coins and did with it what he saw fit. Bitcointalk is not a democracy... If Theymos wanted to just pocket the coins he could without any repercussion.

