Johnson spoke to Right Turn by telephone from Utah, where he was meeting with the Democratic and Republican caucuses at the state capitol. He was upbeat, polite and relaxed throughout, in some ways the polar opposite of Trump. From the perspective of many disappointed conservatives, Hillary Clinton and Trump are both pushing big government with no concern for our debt. Johnson, however, thinks there is an audience for his pitch. “I think most people are classic liberals,” he says referring to the 19th-century definition in touting a fiscally conservative and socially liberal message. “And I think I have that in spades.”

As a two-term governor in a blue state, he developed a reputation for serial vetoes. “I may have vetoed more legislation than the other 49 states combined,” he says. His campaign website boasts that he vetoed 750 bills and “cut taxes 14 times while never raising them. When he left office, New Mexico was one of only four states in the country with a balanced budget.” Johnson explains he was reelected by a bigger margin than he received the first time around. “It’s because I was an equal-opportunity vetoer.”

AD

AD

Shrinking government plainly is high on his agenda. If elected, he said, “I’d dive into the dollars and cents and be really frugal.” He says he understands the limits of Congress and that neither party wants to make substantial cuts. He sounds a pragmatic note in acknowledging he would only get to sign or veto what Congress sends him. “But you can’t discount being head of the government,” he says.

There is nothing he does not want to reduce or eliminate, and he is unabashed about the need to curtail entitlements. “You can’t reduce spending unless you look at entitlements,” he said. Unlike the stereotypical libertarian, his proposals are surprisingly practical, albeit not politically popular. On Social Security, he wants to raise the retirement age and do real means testing. “We should look at how much you put in and how much you are getting out,” he said. He also wants to have part of Social Security be “self-directed,” meaning recipients could pass retirement savings on to their heirs. On Medicaid and Medicare he said, “I’d want to devolve it to the states. I would support anything that moves things in that direction.” Had Medicaid been block-granted when he was governor, he said, “We could have delivered services to the poor.” On Medicare, he likewise wants to develop a fixed benefit plan and turn it over to the states. As for other spending, he said that if he could “wave a magic wand,” he’d get rid of the departments of Education, Commerce and Housing and Urban Development.

Johnson is also a military budget cutter and opponent of interventionism. Despite pleas from secretaries of defense that the military is woefully underfunded, Johnson insisted there is “more than room [to cut] and remain a superpower.” He said generically, “I favor diplomacy to the hilt, but I’m a skeptic on military intervention.” He cited North Korea as our “biggest threat” and wants to work with China to control the rogue state. (Multiple presidents have tried to do this, with little success.) In a world in which Iran, Russia and Islamic terrorists pose real challenges, Johnson will have a tough time winning over security hawks and sounds much like Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.).

AD

AD

Johnson favors replacing the income tax with a consumption tax (“Taxes on purchases for basic necessities would be ‘prebated,’ with all other purchases taxed equally regardless of income, status or purpose.”) and a staunch position on personal freedom (“Responsible adults should be free to marry whom they want, arm themselves if they want, make their own decisions about their bodies, and lead their personal lives as they see fit — as long as no harm is done to others.”).

On immigration, he sounds a refreshing note, rejecting the frenzied immigration opponents on the right. “In 2012 what I saw [when running for president] is that about 30 percent of Republicans think the scourge of the earth is Mexican immigrants.” He added, “I believe I understand what Trump has tapped into.” He voiced the frustration of many classic conservatives on this point, that no matter what facts are presented immigration opponents’ minds will not change. Rounding up 11 million people and building a wall along our border are “crazy,” he said. Instead he favors freely available work visas whereby immigrants would undergo a background check and provide proof of employment.

He is likewise a vocal proponent of free trade. He correctly points out that it is China, not the United States, that will “take it on the chin” when its command and control economy fails to provide a decent standard of living to its middle class.

AD

AD

Johnson has a very sensible goal. “I want to get into the presidential debates,” he said. That requires pollsters to start listing him as an option. Under the presidential debate rule, he would need to get to 15 percent. He is already at 10 percent in the latest Fox News poll. (Interestingly, those pushing for a conservative alternative candidate to Trump put out a poll Wednesday showing an unnamed candidate would draw 21 percent.) He jokes that if Mickey Mouse were on the ballot, 15 percent of voters would choose him. “But Mickey won’t be on 50 state ballots,” he joked. “I will.”

He’s seen a 5,000 percent hike in Google activity since Trump effectively won the Republican nomination, so he thinks there is interest. “It’s all about the polls,” he said. “If I can get on the stage, I actually have a chance of winning. And if I’m on that stage, I have 25 million voters supporting me.” Right now he’s trying to reach a mass audience via free media.

Johnson is not a realistic alternative for those voters for whom social conservative issues like opposition to abortion and gay marriage are paramount or for whom a robust national security is the preeminent concern. However, for millions of small-government conservatives (and some disappointed Sanders fans) who find the two major-party candidates unacceptable, he is a viable option.