Sn0_Man Profile Joined October 2012 Tebellong 31461 Posts Last Edited: 2014-05-05 17:43:05 #1341 Shackles is definitely the best skill to zone/kill offlaners and most of the time I also get it level 1 as support SS, for what that's worth. Also its generally the best for when you go roaming. In Tri-vs-tri situations though you generally want either hex or zap depending on lanemates. Dunno what the current recommended skill order is but its pretty flexible.



yango 2 fast or something Moderator SCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302

firebfm Profile Joined April 2014 15 Posts #1342 aghanim scepter worth getting on abaddon?

Sn0_Man Profile Joined October 2012 Tebellong 31461 Posts #1343 Probably although people need to realize when to manually activate the ult in order to ensure that they don't just get ignored while their team dies. Moderator SCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302

Torte de Lini Profile Joined September 2010 Germany 7680 Posts #1344 On May 06 2014 01:16 TheYango wrote:

Show nested quote +

On May 05 2014 19:51 Torte de Lini wrote:

Is Maxing Q for laning Ursa really that ideal? I can never see how it is justified. The slow is great, but you still only have 1 in Overpower and Fury swipes at 7



Roshing at 10 also seems eh

It depends on the game.



Maxing Earthshock has the best overall fighting effectiveness early because it's up-front damage and AoE on a very short cooldown. Maxing Overpower/Swipes farms faster and has more solo potential as you farm faster and have higher single-target damage for solo-kills (but because it requires you to get all 6 consecutive hits, it's a bit more unwieldy in fights).



Which you get depends a lot on the game--I don't think one is definitively better for a blind cookie-cutter build. It depends on the game.Maxing Earthshock has the best overall fighting effectiveness early because it's up-front damage and AoE on a very short cooldown. Maxing Overpower/Swipes farms faster and has more solo potential as you farm faster and have higher single-target damage for solo-kills (but because it requires you to get all 6 consecutive hits, it's a bit more unwieldy in fights).Which you get depends a lot on the game--I don't think one is definitively better for a blind cookie-cutter build.



I find the one to be most suited for soloplay is the most beneficial for players. Most people are disliking the lane build because it is a bit contradictory.



http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=254615876



I might change it. I find the one to be most suited for soloplay is the most beneficial for players. Most people are disliking the lane build because it is a bit contradictory.I might change it. https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)

DrPandaPhD Profile Joined November 2011 1441 Posts #1345 Think your Drow build can use improvement.



Ring of protection + Wraith band as core but Aquila as situational. If you have RoP as starting you might as well finish an aquila even though that item is usually unnecessary on Drow. Decent for push but the mana reg is wasted.



Could add Manta as Extended



Since these guides are for newer players I am a bit torn on Mask of many deaths and midas. But those 2 are really good when they know what they're doing with the hero. So up to you if you want to add them or not.



About that skillbuild. I think one in silence is enough. Both silence and aura are 1 point wonders so in a lot of cases a few levels of stats will be useful inbetween since she is really squishy as well. But I would still max aura over silence.





(Master the Brewmangix)

Add Shivas somewhere, that's like the best item he can get with blink aghs. All aura items are good on brew but damn Shivas is godtier.



Storm spirit

Add skadi as in the extension/luxuary thing.



Change what you want, obviously. Since it's your own guide. But I really really think you should add shivas to Brew.



리노크 👑

TheYango Profile Joined September 2008 United States 10886 Posts Last Edited: 2014-05-06 22:37:55 #1346 4/4/1 is still largely better for pub Drow than 4/1/4. 4/4/1 has higher solo-kill and teamfight power while 4/1/4 is more focused

on 5-man pushing. The former generally has more value in uncoordinated pub games. The aura max only really has higher value with a team that abuses it on timing with the CD or who deliberately pick heroes who utilize the aura well.



I would hesitate to put Manta in without a detailed explanation of when the item is good. Haphazardly going Manta as a generic "extension" item is really bad on that hero because of how poor Drow illusions are due to her low Agi growth and the fact that they benefit from neither Marksmanship nor Precision Aura.



Agree to both the Brew and Storm suggestions. Moderator

Torte de Lini Profile Joined September 2010 Germany 7680 Posts Last Edited: 2014-05-06 22:59:02 #1347 I'm changing Lane Ursa guide to have an early Q and then max W/E. The difference in builds has its pluses/minuses, but ultimately the ability to do Roshan quickly has its major advantages. I also find that a first level in slow with whoever is babysitting you, should be sufficient for kills.



Q W E E E R E W W W etc



I changed the Drow build to have max aura so she can farm more and as I found most people farm even when maxing Frost Arrows for some reason.



I won't put Midas or MoM as it just adds fuel to a fire of making her even more squishy. It's why I don't have it on Sniper (despite its bonuses, which are many).



I'll add Brewmaster/Shiva's, not sure why that isn't there (good idea!)



Same with Storm Spirit.



thanks for the advice.



Patch notes tomorrow when I wake up. https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)

TheYango Profile Joined September 2008 United States 10886 Posts #1348 With Ursa I'd generally prefer maxing Swipes second regardless of your first maxed skill. Being 4/4/1 strains your mana beyond what it's capable of at level 11 unless you went Arcane Boots (which are legit, but probably beyond the scope of this guide). Moderator

firebfm Profile Joined April 2014 15 Posts Last Edited: 2014-05-07 02:46:59 #1349 add ring of basilus and vlads for pushing broodmother

Torte de Lini Profile Joined September 2010 Germany 7680 Posts Last Edited: 2014-05-07 09:29:41 #1350 Ursa (lane)

E W W Q W R W E E E R Q Q Q (1. Overpower 2. Fury Swipes 3. Earthshock)

Tab changed to: "Fight Roshan at Level 7" Assuming we have Morbid Mask



Broodmother

Added Vladmir's Offering to Situational Items



Drow Ranger

Moved Ring of Aquila to Early Game



Brewmaster

Added Shiva's Guard to Extension Items



Storm Spirit

Added Eye of Skadi to Extension Items





- At some point, I really need to change all the heroes descriptions as they are terribly outdated

- Also may need to add more magic wands to certain heroes.



Statistics will come tomorrow/late tonight E W W Q W R W E E E R Q Q Q (1. Overpower 2. Fury Swipes 3. Earthshock)Tab changed to: "Fight Roshan at Level 7"Added Vladmir's Offering to Situational ItemsMoved Ring of Aquila to Early GameAdded Shiva's Guard to Extension ItemsAdded Eye of Skadi to Extension Items https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)

LonelyCat Profile Joined April 2011 United Kingdom 45 Posts Last Edited: 2014-05-07 10:13:31 #1351 I think Ursa (lane) wants orb of venom almost every time, it could be early game instead of situational maybe?





Does anyone else feel a Legion commander mid guide might be worthwhile after the changes in 6.81? I think the hero needs levels too badly (and not farm enough) to be worth placing sidelanes whilst the new OO changes make maxing that spell first viable from mid I think. A build like:



QWQEQRQWWWREEE (1. Overwhelming Odds 2.Press the Attack 3. Moment of Courage)

Item build:

Starting:

Tango branch x3 shield



Early Game

Boots Bottle TP wand



Bottle helps spam OO, bottle crow/rune holding, helps her mana issues all game long. TP is important as counterganking is free duel wins.



Mid Game (option 1)

Treads blink



Mid Game (option 2)

Phase Drum S&Y



I think blink is mediocre on mid LC - I think focusing entirely on getting duels early slows her teamfight time, and with a max Q setup you can teamfight early, especially with a level advantage, and getting high movespeed (and damage) from phase and drum can still help with chasing down and getting early duels to snowball.



Situational/Late Game

BKB AC Daedalus MKB Mjollnir Halberd Lifesteal? Desolator



BKB is sometimes needed but I tend to find if you're snowballing hard enough its not essential.

AC/Daedalus are usually the go to damage items, Daedalus if you won the early game hard, AC if less so.

MKB to counter evasion (woo obvious) though you can get away with dueling that hero sometimes

Mjollnir helps farm, static charge for duels, more attack speed (which is all you need if you have decent duel damage).

Halberd for evasion + disarm, its a bit awkward coming from S&Y because you end up with a random yasha which doesn't really build into anything good for her.

Lifesteal is decent late game as it gives more survivability outside of duel.



Her main weaknesses mid are vs rotations to gank her I think - she is pretty good vs ranged or melee mids as long as you hit OO well and can farm decently - she's tanky and has decent base damage and the range on OO means she can farm a bit from a safe distance too, and harass effectively.



Edit: Forgot deso <_<

Laurens Profile Joined September 2010 Belgium 1715 Posts #1353 What's the reasoning behind tranquil's on Axe? I thought it was less great after they got changed. Is it assumed that the player drops the boots while clearing camps and picks them up afterwards for a bit of healing? Then the armor goes to waste, otherwise the healing goes to waste.

Wouldn't it be better to rush the RoH of the vanguard?

TheYango Profile Joined September 2008 United States 10886 Posts Last Edited: 2014-05-08 15:39:43 #1354 On May 08 2014 18:32 Laurens wrote:

What's the reasoning behind tranquil's on Axe? I thought it was less great after they got changed. Is it assumed that the player drops the boots while clearing camps and picks them up afterwards for a bit of healing? Then the armor goes to waste, otherwise the healing goes to waste.

Wouldn't it be better to rush the RoH of the vanguard?

The healing is generally what's needed on jungle camps. Stout covers damage reduction against creeps anyway, the armor is largely more useful in combat with heroes and towers.



The glaring issue with RoH is that it either significantly delays when you gank or puts you in a situation where if your gank fails, you're kind of screwed. With Tranquils, you can buy Boots first, gank with Boots advantage, and even if you don't get the kill on your gank, you can still be 1-2 creep camps away from having Tranquil Boots and therefore having sustainable healing. With RoH, one of two things happen:



1) You save for RoH and wait till after RoH to get Boots. This kills your low-level ganking ability because unless your opponents are completely oblivious, Axe's low level ganking ability is very dependent on boots advantage to get close enough to Call.

2) You get Boots first, and gank. In this case though, saving for RoH is so far away. Unless you get the kills in your first 1-2 ganks, you have to ferry tangoes/salves to be able to sustainably farm 875 gold, and having to waste gold on that early regen hurts your overall tempo.



Basically the key is that Tranquil's doesn't force Axe to make a tough choice between early movement speed and early regen, and allows him to have both, which on the whole smooths out his early game a lot. The healing is generally what's needed on jungle camps. Stout covers damage reduction against creeps anyway, the armor is largely more useful in combat with heroes and towers.The glaring issue with RoH is that it either significantly delays when you gank or puts you in a situation where if your gank fails, you're kind of screwed. With Tranquils, you can buy Boots first, gank with Boots advantage, and even if you don't get the kill on your gank, you can still be 1-2 creep camps away from having Tranquil Boots and therefore having sustainable healing. With RoH, one of two things happen:1) You save for RoH and wait till after RoH to get Boots. This kills your low-level ganking ability because unless your opponents are completely oblivious, Axe's low level ganking ability is very dependent on boots advantage to get close enough to Call.2) You get Boots first, and gank. In this case though, saving for RoH is so far away. Unless you get the kills in your first 1-2 ganks, you have to ferry tangoes/salves to be able to sustainably farm 875 gold, and having to waste gold on that early regen hurts your overall tempo.Basically the key is that Tranquil's doesn't force Axe to make a tough choice between early movement speed and early regen, and allows him to have both, which on the whole smooths out his early game a lot. Moderator

Laserist Profile Joined September 2011 Turkey 2891 Posts #1355 Armor against jungle creeps doesn't provide anything if you compare with the imba heal of tranq. Tranq. boots is like having half fountain regen if you use drop technique. You can regenerate 200-300 hp between camps(use the time for stacking if you want) which is more than enough.



RoH provides nothing both in terms of ganking and jungle clearing.

“Are you with the Cartel? Because you’re definitely an Angel.”

Torte de Lini Profile Joined September 2010 Germany 7680 Posts #1356 Tranquil is hitting two birds with one stone without over-dipping if you went Vanguard. https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)

TheYango Profile Joined September 2008 United States 10886 Posts #1357 Vanguard's still fine later, it's just that RoH+Boots gives you your two early-game stats too late compared to just buying Tranquils (since you can start with Stout+RoP+Tangoes, completing Tranquils costs less gold than even RoH by itself does). Moderator

Torte de Lini Profile Joined September 2010 Germany 7680 Posts #1358



I'm hoping there's a major boom of subscribers in the next 15 days so we can hit 20 million! Reddit topic is up: http://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/2520mc/standard_steam_hero_guide_project_stats_for_may/ I'm hoping there's a major boom of subscribers in the next 15 days so we can hit 20 million! https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)

Iceman331 Profile Joined April 2010 United States 821 Posts #1359 I would swap Euls with Force Staff in your Lina build. Eul's is way too good on her to skip imo.

Firebolt145 Profile Joined May 2010 Lalalaland 12000 Posts Last Edited: 2014-05-08 20:14:31 #1360 But Force Staffing someone into LSA looks far more impressive than Euls -> LSA. Moderator

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