Barbara Nicoli & Leila Ananna

Casting Directors for Burberry, Marchesa, Gucci, Emilio Pucci, Armani Privé & Saint Laurent

Nicoli: I think, personally, I like a model if she's a beauty. Sometimes what I disagree with is putting a black girl [in a show] just because you need diversity.

I love black girls. I'm a big fan of Joan Smalls. I would really like to put her in every casting, but sometimes she's not right for some castings and she's much better in others. This kind of diversity is fair and good, but it's also true that sometimes I notice with other casts, it's like they were forced to put someone in because they have to. For example, I love Asian girls, but there was a moment when designers decided to put a lot of Asian girls in just because the Asian market was strong and they gave a lot of money to designers.

I don't like to talk in terms of white, Asian, black, etc., because a model is a model and that's it. To me, if we want to talk about diversity, it's about the model and not the color of their skin. It's more about the body, the face, and the attitude. I think the designer has to decide who is good for their collection, and the role of the casting director is to suggest appropriate models. We have to make a proper selection for our clients. You don't want to waste the designer's time with millions of models in town for fashion week. We had some seasons with beautiful, amazing Asian girls, and we would like to use all of them — and some seasons there are less. Same goes with black girls. I don't think it can be more or less politically correct to put a certain percentage of black girls just because they are black and [not to think about] their body, shape, or beauty.

I'll tell you something. In Gucci, one season, we used Joan for the show, so she was the muse of the season. But, for example, Gucci never has a huge number of black girls in the show because in the mind of Frida [Giannini, Gucci's creative director], she wants this [specific] type of girl — no matter the color of the skin. She wants this girl, then if the model she likes is black or Asian, it's fine. But when you do a casting, [you see a lot fewer black and Asian models than white models]. I think if you're very strict on your collection and have a vision, it's pretty difficult to accept someone who is far from your idea of the woman wearing your clothes. It's all about your beauty ideal, not the color of your skin or race.

It's also true that, for example, Caucasians have a specific body type, black girls have a specific body shape, and Asian girls have a specific body shape. So I guess there are some collections where it's more perfect for an Asian body shape because they are more flat and less sexy, in a way. Asians, they are not curvy, so to put an Asian [who's] very flat [with a] baby body shape in a show where normally the designer knows they love sexy, beautiful, curvy girls, it's a bit of nonsense. If you do it, it's just because you have to or you want to please your customer coming from Asia. But it's not certainly because you have, in your mind, the idea that that kind of girl, she's wearing your clothes properly if you think your girl is sexy.

Annana [via email]: We don't think [diversity improved this past season]. Diversity for a show is important as it is for life. All models have a different personality, attitude, background that makes them all different from each other.

For sure, [we think about diversity in our shows]. Sometimes more for some designers/brands and sometimes less. That really depends [on] each brand and the show concept.

Regarding the representation of various faces [on runways], we think fashion shows have already shown it. Don't you? There are plenty of different faces in a show.

Sometimes we work with more curvy girls, and others with a very androgynous type. We worked on casting with a strong direction, like all blonde girls or all brunette, for example. Or other girls who are very similar, if that helps to make the collection concept stronger.

We think we need to keep in mind that these are shows. A show needs to make you dream, and it doesn't necessarily need to represent reality.