ogion Profile Joined November 2011 New Zealand 79 Posts Last Edited: 2012-11-05 09:53:56 #1



The teams that come first in contender division play the teams that come last in premier division, and the 2nd place teams from contender division play the teams that came 3rd in premier division. Teams are ranked in their group by set wins, and if there is a tie it comes down to map wins.



This brings me to my main point, and that is why Karont3 got placed over NSH

IPTL bracket

As you can see, NSH and Karont3 are tied on 2-1 set score, with NSH one point behind on map score. The problem is, NSH's last game was against Karont3, who forfeited after losing the first 3 games in a row. Because of this, NSH were awarded with only 3 wins, not being given the full 5 that a win would normally give. This is the difference between going 9-7 on maps and coming second, and going 11-7 on maps to Karont3's 10-8, and therefore coming first. Surely if Karont3 chooses to forfeit the remaining 2 games, NSH should be awarded those games as wins?



Now, at this point you may be wondering, does this really matter? The truth is, it matters a lot. If we take a look at the up and down bracket here:

IPTL Up & Downs

We can see that first place in the group gets to play last place Slayers, and receive a walkover win into the premier division. Second place has to play Liquid, the finalists from last season. Because NSH were not awarded those two wins, they had to play against Liquid (who they lost to), and remain in contender division while Karont3 gets a walkover win and advances to premier division. If they had been awarded the wins (which I believe they should have), then NSH would be in premier division, while Karont3 would have had to play Liquid for the right to advance.



Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe NSH have been dealt an injustice which resulted in them not being able to play in a premier league.



EDIT: Ok, so if they wanted to fix this, I don't think they can swap them now, as Liquid has already beaten NSH, so they can't really put NSH through and make Liquid play another match. I reckon they should make NSH play Karont3 again, and make the winner go through. Just my 2 cents. So I was taking a look at the IPTL brackets on liquipedia, and I came across something that I thought seemed unfair. The idea of their system is that teams in the top two teams from each group of the contender division play the bottom two teams of each group of the premier division, with the winners qualifying for the premier division next season.The teams that come first in contender division play the teams that come last in premier division, and the 2nd place teams from contender division play the teams that came 3rd in premier division. Teams are ranked in their group by set wins, and if there is a tie it comes down to map wins.This brings me to my main point, and that is why Karont3 got placed over NSHAs you can see, NSH and Karont3 are tied on 2-1 set score, with NSH one point behind on map score. The problem is, NSH's last game was against Karont3, who forfeited after losing the first 3 games in a row. Because of this, NSH were awarded with only 3 wins, not being given the full 5 that a win would normally give. This is the difference between going 9-7 on maps and coming second, and going 11-7 on maps to Karont3's 10-8, and therefore coming first. Surely if Karont3 chooses to forfeit the remaining 2 games, NSH should be awarded those games as wins?Now, at this point you may be wondering, does this really matter? The truth is, it matters a lot. If we take a look at the up and down bracket here:We can see that first place in the group gets to play last place Slayers, and receive a walkover win into the premier division. Second place has to play Liquid, the finalists from last season. Because NSH were not awarded those two wins, they had to play against Liquid (who they lost to), and remain in contender division while Karont3 gets a walkover win and advances to premier division. If they had been awarded the wins (which I believe they should have), then NSH would be in premier division, while Karont3 would have had to play Liquid for the right to advance.Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe NSH have been dealt an injustice which resulted in them not being able to play in a premier league.EDIT: Ok, so if they wanted to fix this, I don't think they can swap them now, as Liquid has already beaten NSH, so they can't really put NSH through and make Liquid play another match. I reckon they should make NSH play Karont3 again, and make the winner go through. Just my 2 cents.

JJH777 Profile Joined January 2011 United States 3475 Posts #2 Everything you said makes perfect sense to me. If Karont3 didn't care enough to finish the series then NSHS should be awarded the wins.

Hall0wed Profile Blog Joined January 2011 United States 8471 Posts #3 Yup sounds like you're right OP. IPL screwed up.



Hope they fix this, really bad mistake by them. ♦ My Life for BESTie ♦ 류세라 = 배 ♦

ogion Profile Joined November 2011 New Zealand 79 Posts #4 On November 05 2012 18:23 JJH777 wrote:

Everything you said makes perfect sense to me. If Karont3 didn't care enough to finish the series then NSHS should be awarded the wins.

Especially considering they had already lost Vortix and Lucifron, their best players, meaning that a 5-0 score was probably pretty likely for NSHS. Especially considering they had already lost Vortix and Lucifron, their best players, meaning that a 5-0 score was probably pretty likely for NSHS.

DiMano Profile Joined July 2011 Korea (South) 2011 Posts Last Edited: 2012-11-05 09:41:11 #5 You are so right man! The score must be 11-7 vs Karont's 10-8 and we can also add the fact here that they place MVP higher then EG in premier division because MVP won over EG so why they place NSH under Karont3 in Contender Divisoin? I feel so bad because it is the only event where NSH guys can play now.

ogion Profile Joined November 2011 New Zealand 79 Posts Last Edited: 2012-11-05 09:42:39 #6 On November 05 2012 18:37 DiMano wrote:

You are so right man! They place MVP higher then EG in premier division because MVP won EG so why they place NSH under Karont3 in Contender Divisoin?

I feel like they can justify EG over MVP with set score>number of map wins>head to head result, but even that is kinda sketchy, and I was a little surprised when I saw it. I feel like they can justify EG over MVP with set score>number of map wins>head to head result, but even that is kinda sketchy, and I was a little surprised when I saw it.

QuackPocketDuck Profile Joined January 2011 404 Posts #7

ie. i just watch it on a game by game basis not caring whose facing who if next round etc.

GJ staying on top of it NSH should send you a gift or something if this keeps them in the Tournament Lols, so many viewers yet only few people seem to actually the follow bracket / groups of these long leaguesie. i just watch it on a game by game basis not caring whose facing who if next round etc.GJ staying on top of itNSH should send you a gift or something if this keeps them in the Tournament I bought a pack of cigarettes for $20, What have you done for your country today?

KingPaddy Profile Joined November 2010 1053 Posts #8 Yeah, should definitely be counted as a 5-0. Hope IPL will change it

JKM Profile Joined November 2011 Denmark 419 Posts #9 Technically they did not make a mistake, the liquipedia just shows the wrong score.



NSH won their contender group giving them a seed against the last spot of premier, which is TL.

Karont3 got second place in their contender group giving them a seed against the third place of premier, which is Slayers.



However considering that Slayers disbanded before playing against Karont3 you could argue that all their premier groupstage games should also be forfeited resulting in them taking a last place of the groupstage. 1338, one upping 1337

ogion Profile Joined November 2011 New Zealand 79 Posts #10 On November 05 2012 18:56 JKM wrote:

Technically they did not make a mistake, the liquipedia just shows the wrong score.



NSH won their contender group giving them a seed against the last spot of premier, which is TL.

Karont3 got second place in their contender group giving them a seed against the third place of premier, which is Slayers.



However considering that Slayers disbanded before playing against Karont3 you could argue that all their premier groupstage games should also be forfeited resulting in them taking a last place of the groupstage.

That's a good point, but I feel that the team that came first should be given the walkover win. That's a good point, but I feel that the team that came first should be given the walkover win.

DiMano Profile Joined July 2011 Korea (South) 2011 Posts #11 On November 05 2012 18:56 JKM wrote:

Technically they did not make a mistake, the liquipedia just shows the wrong score.



NSH won their contender group giving them a seed against the last spot of premier, which is TL.

Karont3 got second place in their contender group giving them a seed against the third place of premier, which is Slayers.



However considering that Slayers disbanded before playing against Karont3 you could argue that all their premier groupstage games should also be forfeited resulting in them taking a last place of the groupstage.

Oh thx for clarification you are right then it is ok. Oh thx for clarification you are right then it is ok.

Sharkey Profile Blog Joined February 2004 620 Posts Last Edited: 2012-11-05 10:16:01 #12



Premier Div. Group A (PGA)

3. Slayers

4. TL



Premier Div. Group B (PGB)

3. Prime

4. TSL



Contender Div. Group A (CGA)

1. FXO

2. Complexity



Contender Div. Group B (CGB)

1. NSH (11-7) -updated to reflect Karont3 forfeit

2. Karont3 (10-10) -updated to reflect Karont3 forfeit



Up and Down (based on format and updated Karont3 forfeit)

PGB#3 - Prime vs. CGA#2 - Complexity

PGB#4 - TSL vs. CGA#1 - FXO



PGA#3 - Slayers vs. CGB#2 - Karont3

PGA#4 - TL vs. CGB#1 - NSH



I don't see a problem. The numbers were wrong on liquipedia but every team played who they should have. So nothing needs to be fixed (yah!). Edit: mistake. Also sniped (not really, but someone explained it already All info is found in liquipediaPremier Div. Group A (PGA)3. Slayers4. TLPremier Div. Group B (PGB)3. Prime4. TSLContender Div. Group A (CGA)1. FXO2. ComplexityContender Div. Group B (CGB)1. NSH (11-7) -updated to reflect Karont3 forfeit2. Karont3 (10-10) -updated to reflect Karont3 forfeitPGB#3 - Prime vs. CGA#2 - ComplexityPGB#4 - TSL vs. CGA#1 - FXOPGA#3 - Slayers vs. CGB#2 - Karont3PGA#4 - TL vs. CGB#1 - NSHI don't see a problem. The numbers were wrong on liquipedia but every team played who they should have. So nothing needs to be fixed (yah!). Edit: mistake. Also sniped (not really, but someone explained it already If anyone has any serious prayer requests please PM me. Thx.

ogion Profile Joined November 2011 New Zealand 79 Posts #13 On November 05 2012 19:14 Sharkey wrote:

All info is found in liquipedia



Premier Div. Group A (PGA)

3. Slayers

4. TL



Premier Div. Group B (PGB)

3. Prime

4. TSL



Contender Div. Group A (CGA)

1. FXO

2. Complexity



Contender Div. Group B (CGB)

1. NSH (11-7) -updated to reflect Karont3 forfeit

2. Karont3 (10-10) -updated to reflect Karont3 forfeit



Up and Down (based on format and updated Karont3 forfeit)

PGB#3 - Prime vs. CGA#2 - Complexity

PGB#4 - TSL vs. CGA#1 - FXO



PGA#3 - Slayers vs. CGB#2 - Karont3

PGA#4 - TL vs. CGB#1 - NSH



I don't see a problem. The numbers were wrong on liquipedia but every team played who they should have. So nothing needs to be fixed (yah!). Edit: mistake. Also sniped (not really, but someone explained it already All info is found in liquipediaPremier Div. Group A (PGA)3. Slayers4. TLPremier Div. Group B (PGB)3. Prime4. TSLContender Div. Group A (CGA)1. FXO2. ComplexityContender Div. Group B (CGB)1. NSH (11-7) -updated to reflect Karont3 forfeit2. Karont3 (10-10) -updated to reflect Karont3 forfeitPGB#3 - Prime vs. CGA#2 - ComplexityPGB#4 - TSL vs. CGA#1 - FXOPGA#3 - Slayers vs. CGB#2 - Karont3PGA#4 - TL vs. CGB#1 - NSHI don't see a problem. The numbers were wrong on liquipedia but every team played who they should have. So nothing needs to be fixed (yah!). Edit: mistake. Also sniped (not really, but someone explained it already

But shouldn't the team that wins their group be given the walkover? Seems a bit unfair that Karont3 comes 2nd and then gets walkover while NSHS come first and then lose.

But shouldn't the team that wins their group be given the walkover? Seems a bit unfair that Karont3 comes 2nd and then gets walkover while NSHS come first and then lose.

ChapatiyaqPTSM Profile Blog Joined March 2011 France 1835 Posts #14

Kevin Knocke explained it during the cast:



Karont3 2nd of the Contender group vs. Slayers 3rd of Premier => walkover Karont3 2nd of the Contender group vs. Slayers 3rd of Premier => walkover Liquipedia Boy, these pretzels are makin' me thirsty.

IGNProLeague Profile Joined April 2011 1147 Posts #15 The simple answer is, Liquidpedia has the group rankings wrong.



Head to head is the primary tiebreaker of IPTL. NsHoSeo did finish first in the group. SlayerS finished 3rd in Premier and thus matched up against Karont3, who finished 2nd in their group.



Standard algorithm for Up & Downs:



Premier 3rd place v Contender 2nd place.

Premier 4th place v Contender 1st place.

ghosthunter Profile Blog Joined December 2009 United States 413 Posts Last Edited: 2012-11-05 20:33:57 #16 On November 06 2012 03:59 IGNProLeague wrote:

The simple answer is, Liquidpedia has the group rankings wrong.



Head to head is the primary tiebreaker of IPTL. NsHoSeo did finish first in the group. SlayerS finished 3rd in Premier and thus matched up against Karont3, who finished 2nd in their group.



Standard algorithm for Up & Downs:



Premier 3rd place v Contender 2nd place.

Premier 4th place v Contender 1st place.



NS Hoseo obviously wanted to win in that case and Karont3 would want to lose based off incentives (Karont3 would be #1 if they beat NS Hoseo and guaranteed #2 otherwise).



I suppose the question I have is: Did Karont3 sandbag their games v. NS Hoseo? I'd have to watch them to give a judgment, and this is a strange scenario in which a team has outright disbanded such that being 2nd place has a high incentive.



Edit: Either way, there was no reason to play the last 2 games clearly and that was correctly done. NS Hoseo obviously wanted to win in that case and Karont3 would want to lose based off incentives (Karont3 would be #1 if they beat NS Hoseo and guaranteed #2 otherwise).I suppose the question I have is: Did Karont3 sandbag their games v. NS Hoseo? I'd have to watch them to give a judgment, and this is a strange scenario in which a team has outright disbanded such that being 2nd place has a high incentive.Edit: Either way, there was no reason to play the last 2 games clearly and that was correctly done.

ChapatiyaqPTSM Profile Blog Joined March 2011 France 1835 Posts Last Edited: 2012-11-05 23:39:32 #17 On November 06 2012 05:33 ghosthunter wrote:

Show nested quote +

On November 06 2012 03:59 IGNProLeague wrote:

The simple answer is, Liquidpedia has the group rankings wrong.



Head to head is the primary tiebreaker of IPTL. NsHoSeo did finish first in the group. SlayerS finished 3rd in Premier and thus matched up against Karont3, who finished 2nd in their group.



Standard algorithm for Up & Downs:



Premier 3rd place v Contender 2nd place.

Premier 4th place v Contender 1st place.



NS Hoseo obviously wanted to win in that case and Karont3 would want to lose based off incentives (Karont3 would be #1 if they beat NS Hoseo and guaranteed #2 otherwise).



I suppose the question I have is: Did Karont3 sandbag their games v. NS Hoseo? I'd have to watch them to give a judgment, and this is a strange scenario in which a team has outright disbanded such that being 2nd place has a high incentive.



Edit: Either way, there was no reason to play the last 2 games clearly and that was correctly done. NS Hoseo obviously wanted to win in that case and Karont3 would want to lose based off incentives (Karont3 would be #1 if they beat NS Hoseo and guaranteed #2 otherwise).I suppose the question I have is: Did Karont3 sandbag their games v. NS Hoseo? I'd have to watch them to give a judgment, and this is a strange scenario in which a team has outright disbanded such that being 2nd place has a high incentive.Edit: Either way, there was no reason to play the last 2 games clearly and that was correctly done.



In the YouTube video I linked before, Kevin Knocke says the match between Karont3 and NSH was played a few days before the announce of SlayerS disbandment. So I don't think they threw away the games on purpose.

EDIT: In the YouTube video I linked before, Kevin Knocke says the match between Karont3 and NSH was played a few days before the announce of SlayerS disbandment. So I don't think they threw away the games on purpose.EDIT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=gXh0qO2ymsQ#t=1240s Liquipedia Boy, these pretzels are makin' me thirsty.