12:08 Kroytz: okay12:08 Kroytz: mrsergio12:08 Kroytz: last one: thoughts about Snow Drive ?12:08 MrSergio: aren't those maps all the same ?.?12:08 Kroytz: already bubbled and I had two BNs who said they would but then later said they wouldn't so now I'm stuck ;(12:09 Kroytz: whatchu mean all the same?12:09 MrSergio: concept12:10 Kroytz: nah12:10 MrSergio: symmetry and emphasis out of the window12:10 MrSergio: umh... I shall recheck it then12:10 Kroytz: snow drive is like, basic modern mapping tbh12:10 Kroytz: its super basic lmao12:10 Kroytz: well yeah cuz i'm trying to get things done all by the 17th and so im sorta running on thin ice here x-x12:13 MrSergio: 00:03:944 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - not sure how much importance you weight on this aspect, but merging two different instruments/rhythms into one combo just feels weird and not that appealing to me12:13 MrSergio: the first half (the sliders) are on vocals (as the entire map till that point), but the circles decided to ignore it... so... how is that?.?12:14 MrSergio: what do you think of... http://osu.ppy.sh/ss/9321238 12:14 MrSergio: it fixes everything12:14 MrSergio: and it keeps your concept12:16 Kroytz: it's cuz the 5,6 have sayo vocals on them :/12:16 MrSergio: ?12:16 Kroytz: i would've liked to stress the different vocals using 1,2,312:16 MrSergio: did you try it at least... ? :/12:16 Kroytz: im trying it12:17 MrSergio: I mean, I can understand it's not your style, but I tried following the song as I usually do by keeping your stuff in there as faithfully as possible12:18 Kroytz: could I just delete 00:05:283 (4) -12:18 Kroytz: and fix everything that way12:19 Kroytz: at least in that way sayo- vocals are kept to circles and the longer -nara is for the slider12:19 MrSergio: that's even worse if you ask me12:19 Kroytz: ;_;12:20 MrSergio: did you mean [https://i.imgur.com/PTPpAKm.png this], just to be sure?12:20 MrSergio: or did you keep my idea and just deleted 00:05:551 - ?12:21 MrSergio: just so you know, the map so far indicates you are following vocals (not lyrics in specific)12:21 MrSergio: so my suggestion is based on how those vocals are held (or not)12:21 Kroytz: actually12:21 MrSergio: 00:04:747 (3) - is not the same as 00:04:346 (2) -12:21 Kroytz: i can see your suggestion working12:21 MrSergio: in the song*12:21 Kroytz: yeah12:21 Kroytz: I can fix this12:21 Kroytz: okay12:21 MrSergio: 2 is held till 3, but 3 stops and then the next vocal starts on 00:05:015 -12:22 MrSergio: if that makes sense12:22 Kroytz: yeah12:23 MrSergio: once you do that, 00:05:551 (5,6) - remain two circles as the vocals do, etc. etc...12:23 Kroytz: yes12:23 MrSergio: 00:10:358 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - taking this one in examination: 00:11:965 (1,2,3,4) - this third combo is the only one not using a back and forth concept...12:24 MrSergio: 00:10:358 (1,2,3,4) - is a zigzag12:24 MrSergio: 00:11:161 (1,2,3,4) - normal back and forth jumping12:24 Kroytz: yeah12:24 MrSergio: 00:11:965 (1,2,3) - linear movement, which is a bit sudden and seeing the song, not so consistent12:24 Kroytz: easy, hard, easy, hard12:24 Kroytz: makes it more interesting imo12:24 MrSergio: umh... that wasn't my point xD12:24 MrSergio: that's fine in its own (I guess)12:25 MrSergio: in this case, you might consider rotating 00:10:358 (1,2,3) - a bit, to make it similar to 00:11:965 (1,2,3) -12:26 MrSergio: https://osu.ppy.sh/ss/9321318 kinda lame, but it resembles more the other pattern12:26 Kroytz: oh man12:27 Kroytz: that's a bit nit picky really it shouldnt be so complicated o,o12:27 MrSergio: well, seeing the speed of the song, it's a bit noticeable... I think...12:27 Kroytz: tbh the intention was more just have something different for every naite nanka12:27 MrSergio: well, you unexpectedily created another concept there then12:27 MrSergio: which was the back and forth movement12:28 MrSergio: what I meant is that you probably meant the red line, while it is more obvious to see it as the orange arrows https://i.imgur.com/htNTuSt.png 12:28 MrSergio: which makes sense if we go look at 00:11:965 (1,2,3,4) - , since you treated 1-2-3 as the red line again12:29 MrSergio: but you kept the bacn and forth movement for 00:11:161 (1,2,3,4) - , which is the actual issue with what you did12:29 MrSergio: so it becomes: 00:10:358 (1,2,3,4) - back and forth; 00:11:161 (1,2,3,4) - back and forth, 00:11:965 (1,2,3,4) - linear movement with final jump12:29 Kroytz: i mean this 00:10:759 (4,1,2,3,4) - is just a star thingy12:29 Kroytz: 00:11:965 (1,2,3,4) - triangle12:29 MrSergio: they are not in the same combo, how do you expect people to notice it12:29 Kroytz: 00:12:768 (1,2,3,4) - paralellogram12:30 Kroytz: it wasn't supposed to be noticeable it was subtle12:30 Kroytz:12:30 MrSergio: last one is visible, ye12:30 MrSergio: the other ones weren't till you told me12:30 MrSergio: the less obvious was the star tbh12:31 MrSergio: why didn't you add a NC and a circle at 00:11:027 - if that was the intention?12:31 MrSergio: 00:10:358 (1,2,3,4) - this was a parallelogram, ok12:31 Kroytz: i suppose12:31 MrSergio: but asking me to consider the slider end as part of the enxt combo feels totally of to me lol12:32 MrSergio: why do you use combos then, if they are not used to group things12:32 Kroytz: it's just a subtle thing not necessarily supposed to be a part of the next one12:32 Kroytz: naite nanka vocals are combos and the last vocal is held much longer12:32 MrSergio: well, now I get why my interpretation was off, but let's say that consistency is not that great if I listen to the song12:32 Kroytz: mostly just japanese N is held12:32 Kroytz: haha12:32 MrSergio: I get the concept, but then why so much variety?12:33 Kroytz: because its more interesting12:33 MrSergio: 00:10:358 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4) - naite nanka x412:33 Kroytz: variety and such12:33 MrSergio: and by "x4" I mean: one naite nanka taken exactly the same four times12:33 Kroytz: yeah12:33 Kroytz: in the later parts its more uh, consistent i suppose12:34 Kroytz: variety is nice tho12:34 MrSergio: 00:27:500 - 00:31:786 - this section would have been way nicer if it expressed the fact the song is slightly different (in this case, calmer)12:35 MrSergio: variety is nice when it is required, I'd say12:36 Kroytz: 27s is different than 31s12:36 MrSergio: I meant the section in between12:36 Kroytz: oh12:36 MrSergio: zzz12:36 Kroytz: heh12:36 Kroytz: i thought i did map it calmer tho12:36 Kroytz: no complicated patterns12:37 Kroytz: just simple stuff12:37 MrSergio: well...12:37 MrSergio: you don't really put much complexity outside of that section...12:37 Kroytz: still heavy in 1/2s12:37 MrSergio: even if you added something I couldn't notice it, so can I conclude it was too balnd?12:37 MrSergio: bland*12:37 Kroytz: maybe12:37 MrSergio: in fact, 00:28:572 (1,2,1,2) - this stuff is more straining due to the lack of movement12:38 MrSergio: the jumps are easier to play on high BPMs from what I could experience myself12:38 Kroytz: well thats in part of it being calmer12:38 MrSergio: then calmer should be "less intense", not "as intense as the rest but with lower spacing and using a really contrasting concept of the map which makes it harsher to play" :thinking:12:39 Kroytz: it is less intense but similar density if that's what you were aiming at xP12:39 MrSergio: I mean... you could have used shorter slider12:39 MrSergio: even for 00:28:572 (1,2,1,2,1,2) -12:39 Kroytz: yeah but ABAB pattern deal is going on here12:39 Kroytz: in fact12:39 MrSergio: I'm saying that reducing spacing there gives off the exact opposite effect of what you intended12:39 Kroytz: a lot of this map is really just rhythmical patterns12:40 MrSergio: small movements are a pain to make because they require precision12:40 MrSergio: not to mention they are straight jumps and not even back and forths12:40 MrSergio: so you need more control12:40 Kroytz: honestly when I play this it doesn't feel hard..12:40 Kroytz: I think you're over analyzing this a bit12:41 MrSergio: if we discard the left hand (the tapping one, since it's the same thing as before), the right hand has more stuff going on than before12:41 MrSergio: considering our points of view, it may be as well that you didn't think about it too much12:41 Kroytz: oh no I always think about the player12:42 Kroytz: one can say that stacks require more strain because you stop movement and one can say that stacks require less strain because there's less movement12:42 MrSergio: that's good12:42 MrSergio: I think...12:42 MrSergio: yours aren't stacks tho, they are tiny overlaps which require a small amount of movement regardless12:42 MrSergio: but let's move on...12:42 Kroytz: yeah but not as complicated as jumps :p12:43 MrSergio: still tho, having 1/2 clicks in the calm part 00:28:572 (1,2,1,2,1,2) - and sliders in the more intense one 00:31:786 (1,2,3,4,1,2,3) - feels awkward12:43 Kroytz: its a fair point12:44 MrSergio: 00:36:072 - kinda sad the drum is ignored12:44 MrSergio: 00:36:072 - 00:36:273 - 00:36:474 - 00:36:608 -12:44 Kroytz: yeah I did map this out trying to follow the drum 1:112:44 Kroytz: and um12:44 MrSergio: ah no, third one is not a drum beat12:44 Kroytz: it was not very pleasant12:45 Kroytz: it was a bit too complicated and slightly inconsistent so just rather keep it simplified12:46 MrSergio: aka, you could manage to find a nice way to represent it so you gave up on it12:46 MrSergio: couldn't*12:46 MrSergio: as of now, I can't surely seem to be following what the stream is following12:46 Kroytz: more/less12:46 MrSergio: the drums are just too present for me12:47 MrSergio: and you ignored them, so rip12:47 Kroytz: i didnt want to overuse kick sliders to represent them because I wouldn't be able to create nicer looking stream shapes for the drums12:47 Kroytz: since this entire phrase is just classified as "drums"12:47 MrSergio: 00:47:858 (1,2,3) - and I personally have a different view on simplistic parts like this one: if there are no istruments to back up vocals I use small spacing to contrast more intense parts having the full band going at it12:48 MrSergio: you could just stack 2 under 112:48 Kroytz: i had thought about that12:48 Kroytz: i think thats what i did first actually12:48 MrSergio: 00:48:929 (1) - just to be sure. Is this on vocals too?12:49 MrSergio: because once again I got focused on the unusual instrument, this time being the guitar12:49 Kroytz: its just more like I want 00:49:465 (3,4,5,6) - to be the stronger vocals12:50 MrSergio: 00:49:197 (2) - is enough for that tho12:50 Kroytz: yes but then i would miss the subdivision12:50 MrSergio: 00:48:929 (1) - this could be split into 2 1/4 sliders being relatively close12:51 MrSergio: or just two stacked circles... ? Umh...12:51 MrSergio: oh yeah, it works better with circles12:51 MrSergio: well, up to you12:52 MrSergio: 00:54:554 (2) - idk what this follows now tho... vocals?12:52 Kroytz: mhm12:52 Kroytz: yeah12:52 MrSergio: because I think that's the only one not doing so around that area12:52 Kroytz: elongated vocal12:52 MrSergio: isn't that better as a 1/2 repeat?12:52 Kroytz: no12:52 MrSergio: 00:54:688 - there is a lyric here12:52 Kroytz: lol12:52 MrSergio: shi12:53 MrSergio: not to mention the strong kick on tail which is ignored,12:53 Kroytz: its like one of those things where instead of saying ke-shi its just kesh12:54 MrSergio: doesn't look like it but alright /o/12:54 MrSergio: it's surely different than vocals on 00:55:358 (1,2) - no matter what12:54 MrSergio: at what degree may be different for us both12:55 Kroytz: haha12:55 Kroytz: ye12:55 MrSergio: 01:23:215 (1,2,1,2,1,2,1,2) - concept used in the calm part we discussed before12:55 MrSergio: at this point I'd say that pattern is inappropriate for the calm part12:56 MrSergio: 01:26:161 (1,2,1,2,3,4) - somewhat rip vocals too12:56 MrSergio: 01:26:161 (1,2) - 01:26:697 (2,3) - into slider; 01:26:429 (1) - into circles12:56 Kroytz: unfortunately12:57 MrSergio: 01:35:268 (2,3) - if you stack 3 under 2's tail it works better to make contrast and actually feel "less intense". The current jump just doesn't give of such feeling12:57 MrSergio: 01:35:670 (4,5) - ah, and ctrl G because it would suck with spacing12:58 Kroytz: I think both ideas work here yours and mine12:58 MrSergio: well, I clearly don't think that if I suggested to change it, right?12:58 MrSergio: your SV and DS contrast indicates the clear opposite of calm12:59 MrSergio: sliders are hella slow, spacing becomes as huge as before12:59 MrSergio: it's like two people talking: "hey, this anime is shit" "yes, I like it too"12:59 Kroytz: because the circles have drums12:59 Kroytz: lol12:59 MrSergio: it's not the circles the problem tho,m it's the passage from slider to circles12:59 MrSergio: that spacing just screams "not calm"13:00 Kroytz: the sliders are supposed to scream the calmness13:00 MrSergio: after you switch to drums, yes, go ahead and slap a cross screen jump, I don't care13:00 MrSergio: drums suppoort that13:00 MrSergio: and I'm saying, the passage form one to another just doesn't say that lmao13:00 MrSergio: if you keep the jump from sliders to circles calm too, drums will have more emphasis and they will feel more powerful13:00 MrSergio: that's what contrast does13:01 MrSergio: ah, 02:16:518 (1) - this could have been longer, like... 7/413:01 Kroytz: oh13:01 Kroytz: why didnt i do that13:01 MrSergio: it would follow the combo's logic that way, which is holding the previous vocal till the next one13:01 Kroytz: yeah13:02 MrSergio: not sure it fits to extend it in that position tho13:02 MrSergio: since it's kinda cramped13:02 Kroytz: 6/4 is better13:02 Kroytz: just so there isn't a random 1/4 spacing in the midst of all these 1/2s13:02 MrSergio: 02:34:197 (2,3) - yes, this one works better since the spacing there is clearly smaller, although consistency tells me to do the same stack as before13:03 MrSergio: the whole combo has 1/4 gaps tho13:03 MrSergio: it seems to me you are treating combos a bit strangely, since you allow things that shouldn't be allowed and viceversa: a combo has its own set of rules you can follow, as long as they do not differ too much from the rest of the map13:04 MrSergio: the fact the whole combo BESIDES that first slider has 1/4 gaps makes it already a rule for the combo you can easily apply13:04 Kroytz: and i would agree13:04 MrSergio: that also increases contrast over time and makes the map less generic if you ask me13:04 MrSergio: since once everything looks too similar it's just a blob13:04 Kroytz: however, the way I look at things exceed just combos but in measures and phrases13:05 MrSergio: combos are meant to express measures/phrases tho13:05 Kroytz: not all the time13:05 MrSergio: so if you do different combos than that does it mean you're trying to do two things with the same tool at once?13:05 Kroytz: sometimes you can subdivide a measure into two combos for one reason or another13:05 MrSergio: idk... I usually combo things on how the song plays, not sure how you do it exactly13:05 MrSergio: hah...13:06 MrSergio: I guess I learned something, although those reasons could vary, and therefore make no sense in many circumstances, right...13:06 Kroytz: hehe13:06 MrSergio: 02:36:608 (3,6) - better not stacked to match your other jumps13:06 MrSergio: 02:38:215 (1,2,3,4) - hi13:06 MrSergio: 02:38:750 (1,2,3,4) - tai13:07 MrSergio: 02:43:036 (5,6) - pretty sure you did the exact opposite before... where was it...13:07 MrSergio: 01:43:572 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - oh ye13:07 Kroytz: slightly inconsistent there :p13:07 MrSergio: how come one kiai uses circles instead of circles and viceversa13:07 Kroytz: the former is a better transition13:08 Kroytz: er the 2nd kiai so that the circles stand with the vocals more13:08 Kroytz: and the sliders identify as drums13:08 Kroytz: circles for the naite nanka*13:08 MrSergio: 02:43:036 (5,6) - these look like 4 equally important beats to me tho13:09 MrSergio: so sliders themselves (ignoring consistency and what not) don't make sense to me13:09 Kroytz: well there's two ways to look at it13:09 MrSergio: you know... slider heads and tails are differently emphasized... and that stuff13:09 MrSergio: which are...13:09 Kroytz: the drums are stronger and more intense should be circles okay. and the 2nd thing is if they are circles AND the naite nankas are circles, then how do you separate the two from each othe r13:10 MrSergio: I am talking about 02:42:500 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - , there is no naite nanka there13:10 Kroytz: probably a pattern or something but I would rather the vocals stand out more than the drums so keep the drums as a different object albeit slightly weaker13:10 MrSergio: if you were referring to 02:43:572 (1,2,3,4,5,6) - , I wasn't13:10 MrSergio: that's another combo13:10 Kroytz: 02:43:036 (5,6) - have the drum13:10 MrSergio: and that same thing happensi n first kiai13:10 MrSergio: 01:44:108 (3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4) -13:11 Kroytz: er no the rhythm is switched here because of my inaccuracy13:11 MrSergio: so by what you told me, one doesn't fit as the other no matter what point of view we have13:11 Kroytz: it should be circles first and then sliders13:12 Kroytz: its just a matter of what i prioritize to be stronger I guess13:12 MrSergio: 02:44:108 (5,6) - D:13:12 MrSergio: well, it does make sense13:12 MrSergio: sort of...13:12 MrSergio: the fact it is so... "out of the ordinary for the map" kinda makes me think tho13:13 Kroytz: more interesting is what i say lol13:13 MrSergio: well, not a big deal... I guess. I don't think I even have strong reasons to make you change that since it works and consistency is not everything13:13 Kroytz: rather than just your whatever jumps13:13 Kroytz: like in the first kiai13:13 MrSergio: well, "whatever jumps" are whatever falls within the "didn't follow a rule" category13:13 MrSergio: and seeing the map so far, they are not doing that so much13:13 Kroytz: I mean, they do follow a structure and stuff13:14 MrSergio: they are going against what you did for sure13:14 MrSergio: ye, they do13:14 Kroytz: 01:44:643 (1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6,1,2,3,4,5,6) -13:14 MrSergio: does that structure make sense with the rest tho?13:14 Kroytz: squares galore13:14 MrSergio: didn't notice that tbh13:14 Kroytz: s u b t l e t y13:14 Kroytz: is my specialty13:14 MrSergio: and I think players wouldn't notice either not having the chance to highlight things and study them in gameplay13:14 Kroytz: ye13:15 MrSergio: subtlety which is not recognized is nothing tho...13:15 Kroytz: they are structured and patterned but dont play as a 'concrete' pattern such as the star13:15 Kroytz: its the thought that counts right xD13:15 MrSergio: for how dumb it sounds, 02:44:108 (5,6) - stacked would make more sense considering what you did so far13:15 MrSergio: umh... no13:15 MrSergio: if that was enough every newbie mapper would be a legend on Earth13:15 Kroytz: someone else mentioned the stack too13:15 Kroytz: i didn't like it13:15 MrSergio: I don't like it either13:15 MrSergio: but that would make more sense using the map's logic thus far13:16 MrSergio: this is about the map's concept and how this pattern goes against it13:16 MrSergio: (which for the most part was doing back and forth movements/jumps)13:16 Kroytz: the pattern is just a pattern, something to keep the ideas more fresh13:16 Kroytz: if all naite nankas were the same, sure its hella consistent but it becomes too predictable13:17 MrSergio: well, you can make a concept evolve13:17 MrSergio: by changing just "some" characteristics of the previous iterations of you pattern13:17 Kroytz: which is what I tried to do I think... with the next two kiais13:18 MrSergio: the first time you repeat the same thing 4 times, then change a couple things and do the same for the second time13:18 MrSergio: and so on13:18 MrSergio: going totally against a core concept of the previous iteration is not what evolution is13:18 Kroytz: suppose that makes sense13:18 MrSergio: it would be like tomorrow some human being decides that it is better to be a bird13:18 MrSergio: and becomes a bird13:18 MrSergio: we change what can be changed13:19 MrSergio: in order to make it varied while keeping the core concept of it13:19 MrSergio: so if ever, we could change hour height over the years, not our body structure13:19 Kroytz: ye13:19 MrSergio: our*13:20 MrSergio: that's the concept anyway, how you put it in practice can vary as you please13:20 MrSergio: my point here is simply that 02:44:108 (5,6,1) - this passage is something you used no where else I could see in the map13:20 MrSergio: repeating it so intensively also creates a huge contrast on something that shouldn't be so contrasting with the first part of the song13:20 Kroytz: hmm maybe the last kiai is a bit similar13:20 Kroytz: with a concrete pattern13:21 Kroytz: 1st and 3rd kiai have yolo'y jumps and 2nd and 4th kiai have concrete patterns13:21 Kroytz: kinda goes back to that abab thing13:21 Kroytz: i suppose13:21 Kroytz: altho, the last kiai is different but I wanted to be consistent13:22 Kroytz: since using a different object for the arigatou or triples would not help what i wanted to achieve13:22 MrSergio: ah, don't get me wrong about what I said: I don't like repeated patterns either13:22 MrSergio: and I'm not suggesting to change them like that13:22 MrSergio: variety IS nice and I highly go for it too13:23 MrSergio: but the way you describved it right now it feels like two maps fused together...13:23 Kroytz: (ABAB)13:23 Kroytz: its just like, music theory stuff13:24 MrSergio: 02:52:143 - also, more sliders after this point would make sense with the song imo, seeing you have a special amount of long notes13:24 MrSergio: uhhh...13:24 MrSergio: the song is all cohesive tho, right?13:24 MrSergio: it's not about two songs mashed together13:24 Kroytz: this particular song is rather bland13:24 MrSergio: it is, and that's why I wouldn't map it to begin with13:24 MrSergio: since I would suck with coming up with alternatives for my patterns13:24 Kroytz: neither would i but this song has a special place in my kokoro13:24 Kroytz: yeah lol13:25 MrSergio: aka, pp jumps and fame?13:25 MrSergio: idk... lol13:25 Kroytz: no13:25 Kroytz: idc about the images13:25 Kroytz: i just map13:25 MrSergio: ik, I was joking13:25 Kroytz: ><13:25 MrSergio: but that's the impression it gave me off tbh13:25 MrSergio: and that's one of those things were "I hate the community for not understanding" but it happens to me too13:25 Kroytz: mm13:25 Kroytz: unfortunately yeah13:26 Kroytz: thats how all my recent maps are as youve seen lol13:26 MrSergio: as far as music theory goes, you are simply slapping the ABAB concept in there in a really rough/forced manner13:26 MrSergio: as I said, it feels like two maps together13:26 MrSergio: because of the polar opposite aspects13:26 Kroytz: yeah cuz this diff was to be lesser than Raikozen's13:26 Kroytz: meaning, a more simplified and less complicated map13:26 MrSergio: ugh13:26 Kroytz: than his but then i removed his13:26 Kroytz: so..13:27 MrSergio: well, circumstances aside, I judge what I have on the plate, you know that13:27 Kroytz: yeah13:27 MrSergio: the fact there was another diff doesn't change what the current diff is13:27 Kroytz: sure13:28 MrSergio: 03:09:353 (1) - also, crazy spinner on something that should work as a build-down (if that's a thing) doesn't work that great13:28 MrSergio: [https://i.imgur.com/GJDBV1d.png ?]13:28 MrSergio: I assume players spin like crazy, so having crazy movements on calm parts is a contradiction13:28 Kroytz: possiblwe13:29 Kroytz: spinner can work, the fade out thingy can work13:29 MrSergio: 03:34:465 (5,6) - re ^13:29 Kroytz: spinner is not too difficult13:29 MrSergio: it's not about difficulty xD13:30 Kroytz: well cuz you said crazy spinner13:30 MrSergio: it's about the behaviour the player will take for it and what does that produces as a result on the player's perception of what you did13:30 MrSergio: umh... do they spinn at at least 370 rpm?13:30 MrSergio: that's crazy enough for that calm part imo13:30 Kroytz: jeez , thats an assumption13:30 MrSergio: ik13:30 MrSergio: but we're talking about a 240 BPM song13:31 MrSergio: ah, 22413:31 MrSergio: ops13:31 MrSergio: well, still fast13:31 Kroytz: :subjective:13:31 MrSergio: I'd rather have a slider there13:31 MrSergio: if ever13:31 MrSergio: the break effect works x10 better13:32 Kroytz: yeah I mean, anything works really.. slider spinner break i guess its just a matter of taste?13:32 Kroytz: its such a strong ending13:32 MrSergio: umh... I wonder...13:32 MrSergio: I'd guess it comes down to what we want the players to do on it13:32 MrSergio: since I'm fine with whatever, personally13:33 MrSergio: I believe the break effect better expresses the song13:33 Kroytz: interesting, yeah probably13:33 MrSergio: that's all13:33 MrSergio: assuming players spin relatively fast on it*13:33 MrSergio: if they would spin slowly it would be great, but I believe spinners weren't meant for fadeouts13:33 Kroytz: 2 measures for spinners is plenty13:33 Kroytz: spinning*13:34 MrSergio: in fact, their original purpose was to compensate for intense rhythms that couldn't be clicked on the touchscreen13:34 MrSergio: so they were replacing streams13:34 Kroytz: no wonder older maps have bad spinner placements13:34 MrSergio: which is what I use them for on lower diffs too13:34 Kroytz: TIL13:34 MrSergio: lol13:34 MrSergio: the strange ones are the new mappers using the spinner as not it was intended imo13:35 MrSergio: calm parts and spinner just don't go well imo13:35 MrSergio: not with how much I am forced to move my curosr13:35 Kroytz: yeah :p13:36 MrSergio: 03:51:608 (3,4) - re ^13:37 Kroytz: yeah, transitioning sliders to the circles13:37 MrSergio: the 03:52:143 (1) - arigatou is not that prominent when 03:52:545 (1,2,3) - are the same as 03:52:143 (1,2,3) -13:37 MrSergio: ideally, you would put a bigger jump on 03:52:143 (1) - 03:52:947 (1) - 03:53:750 (1) - etc13:37 Kroytz: thats what i mean, I wanted to keep consistency with former kiais despite the vocal being different13:37 MrSergio: 03:59:643 (1) - uhhh, slider ticks hurt my ears13:37 Kroytz: because this kiai is actually stronger13:38 MrSergio: my dear, we would just start the evolution thingy again xD13:38 Kroytz: having smaller jumps would make this feel weaker than the previous13:38 Kroytz: ;_;13:38 Kroytz: and that slider tick should be muted...13:38 Kroytz: zz13:38 MrSergio: I know consistency is important, but some parts in the song are meant to not be "generic" as the rest, so the map/patterns should do the same13:39 MrSergio: I mean, every song has an highlighted part (eg kiai time) and stuff like that13:39 MrSergio: some parts are meant as transition13:39 MrSergio: some parts are just there as the base line13:39 MrSergio: and so on13:39 Kroytz: so we would have one (1,2,3) play strong and the next (1,2,3) play weaker and repeat x4 and that is really uncomfortable for the player tbh13:40 MrSergio: so be careful which parts truly need consistency and which ones are free from any chain to the rest13:40 MrSergio: it's the last kiai and it's supposed to be hard? x)13:40 Kroytz: yes but not difficulty in the sense of being uncomfortable since most of this map flows well imo13:41 Kroytz: simplest thing i can try and relate is have a big triangle and a small triangle inside, and a big one, small one and that plays really really awkward13:41 Kroytz: and sure you can try different patterns but the idea is that going from big-small-big-small in what is an emphasizing part of the music is really backwards13:42 MrSergio: idk... I don't think that's actually that big of a deal as long as the song supports it...13:42 Kroytz: the song is to blame for having a weaker vocal on a stronger section13:42 Kroytz: xd13:42 MrSergio: and for sure this kiai isn't that "normal" here13:42 Kroytz: yeah13:42 MrSergio: I would like more to have the small part so contrast is clearer13:42 Kroytz: people suggested triples and sliders to fill in the blanks but honestly thats just really weird too13:42 MrSergio: triangle*13:42 MrSergio: please no triples if they aren't in the song13:43 Kroytz: agre13:43 MrSergio: didn't I mod this already tho...13:43 MrSergio: I have this huge dejavu... or maybe it was just me looking at it without modding it...13:44 Kroytz: did you? o,o13:44 MrSergio: umh... I did check the map at least once, I am sure of that13:44 Kroytz: oh no13:44 MrSergio: probably never gave you feedback on it13:44 Kroytz: you cleaned the thread13:44 Kroytz: i remember13:44 MrSergio: oh right13:44 MrSergio: that explains why13:44 MrSergio: anyway, I guess the conclusion is that there can be stuff done yet13:45 MrSergio: although I know I'm being the usual party pooper13:45 MrSergio: not sure how feasable that stuff is right now that the map is completely done and all...13:45 Kroytz: hm?13:46 MrSergio: I mean... some things would need rework from the ground up, considering those contrasting concepts13:46 MrSergio: "ideally"