As much as they may not want to admit it, Manchester United have been here before.

Athens in February 2014 and, as David Moyes’ United team lost 2-0 at Olympiakos, those sitting in the executive seats saw the signs of a manager out of his depth and out of ideas, of a team sliding inexorably backwards towards modern irrelevance.

So bad were things then that United chief executive Ed Woodward took a photograph of the scoreboard on his mobile phone, something he could look back at in better days.

Louis van Gaal leaves the pitch to the sound of dissenting voices following Manchester United's defeat

Frustration is etched on players' faces as they trudge off following Saturday's 2-1 defeat by Norwich

Assistant coach Ryan Giggs looks disappointed as he leaves ahead of his under-pressure manager

Van Gaal's reign at Old Trafford is beginning to bear similarities to David Moyes' ill-fated spell

Well, those better days are not here yet. In fact, it could be argued that, in the wake of Saturday’s dismal defeat at home to Norwich in the Barclays Premier League, United are back to square one.

For the same things that did for Moyes — inadequate, stumbling Moyes — are now staring Louis van Gaal in the face.

Poor results — a defeat at Stoke on Boxing Day would be United’s fourth on the spin — players who don’t trust him, supporters who don’t like him and opponents who certainly do not fear him.

Van Gaal’s race in Manchester is almost run. Every team in sport suffers poor runs of results. The perfect storm will destabilise everybody at some time. But it is when progress, recovery and fresh momentum seem unlikely that change must come. That is the point United reached with Moyes. It is the point they appear to be at with Van Gaal.

United did not expect this. Even after last season’s less than convincing displays, Woodward and the Glazer family saw some significant steps forward. That, in essence, is why they are so reluctant to confront the evidence that stands before them today.

Nevertheless, the portents for United’s Dutch manager are as bleak as can be. United are rudderless, bound up in the rigidity of their manager’s tactics and lacking players with the wherewithal or the will to solve the puzzles for themselves.

United have not won in six games in all competitions - while slipping out of the Champions League places

Van Gaal's rigid tactics have led to a lacklustre brand of football that is far removed from United's traditions

Phil Jones insists United's slump is the players' responsibility but there is talk of mutiny behind the scenes

UNITED'S SIX-GAME WINLESS RUN December 19 vs Norwich (H) 1-2 December 12 vs Bournemouth (A) 2-1 December 8 vs Wolfsburg (A) 3-2 December 5 vs West Ham (H) 0-0 November 28 vs Leicester (A) 1-1 November 25 vs PSV (H) 0-0 Advertisement

After Saturday’s defeat, defender Phil Jones attempted to say the right things.

‘The players in there aren’t hiding behind anyone,’ he said. ‘We know full well we have to take responsibility. The manager is doing all he can and is doing a terrific job.

‘It’s not even questionable in the dressing room. The lads are absolutely fully focused on performing well for the manager, the fans, ourselves.’

The stark truth, however, is rather different. United’s Carrington training centre is awash with rumours. There is, for example, talk of clandestine player meetings in a bid to change the team tactics.

These remain unverified but what is known is that United’s senior players are tired of their manager — described by one as ‘the weirdest bloke I have ever known’ — while others, in particular the club’s Spanish contingent, are convinced he needs to be replaced.

Cameron Jerome (2nd left) celebrates his opening goal as David de Gea (right) slumps to the ground

Norwich midfielder Alex Tettey loses Ashley Young to toe-poke in the eventual winner on Saturday

Golden Boy winner Anthony Martial (centre) pulled a goal back but it was not enough to rescue United

Players are not always the best judges, of course. Van Gaal cannot make their tackles or play their passes for them. Nevertheless, as Chelsea have just found out, you cannot win matches at this level if the team is not buying into the methods of the guy in charge.

Carrington proved itself to be a divisive, corrosive place during Moyes’ time at the club. It was remarkable how quickly the values Sir Alex Ferguson had sworn by for so many years became obsolete.

On the field, Van Gaal’s stats are increasingly alarming. His win percentage in the league is now almost the same as Moyes (51 per cent compared to 50 per cent) and so is his points per game record (1.8 compared to 1.7). The quality of the actual football, meanwhile, continues to disillusion those who come to watch.

One fan website poll on Saturday night failed to register a single vote for Van Gaal’s retention. That won’t come as a total surprise to those who have seen his team play.

THE CONTENDERS TO TAKE OVER THE UNITED HOTSEAT FROM VAN GAAL

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Even last season there were only occasional days that suggested a plan may be about to come together.

There were, for example, wins at Liverpool and at home to Manchester City that spoke of apparent progress. Equally, though, there were wretched performances against teams like Burnley, Southampton and Newcastle that somehow ended in victory — and Leicester, Swansea (twice) and West Ham that did not. Last summer was supposed to right wrongs with hard cash but it hasn’t happened.

United have limped through this low-rent Premier League season with a certain cussedness but now results have turned, Van Gaal has no credit in the bank on which to draw.

During Saturday’s game he looked desperate, short of ideas. Glued to his seat in the dugout, folder and pen on his lap, he looked like a supply teacher marking time until the school bell rang.

Van Gaal looked like a beaten man as he watched his season unravel from the Old Trafford dugout

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Leaving the Champions League at the group stages after defeat by Wolfsburg saw Van Gaal's stock fall

This, remember, is Louis van Gaal, one of Europe’s great modern coaches.

United actually began the match brightly enough but, typically, created very little.

Once Norwich scored on the break in the first half and then added another early in the second — Cameron Jerome and Alex Tettey the scorers — they never looked like stirring themselves.

Anthony Martial did manage to bundle a goal in with 24 minutes left and at that stage United had plenty of time to rescue themselves, to rescue their manager. They never looked like doing and it and people can read into that whatever they like.

Afterwards, Van Gaal — usually so upright and purposeful — looked mentally bruised, battered and beaten which, of course, he was.

Van Gaal would have seen the raised hands waving him goodbye as he headed towards the dressing room

The trudge down the touchline was a slow one. Head down. He will have heard the boos, though, and as he reached the players’ tunnel and lifted his eyes, he will have seen the raised hands on the Stretford End waving him goodbye.

In the directors’ box, Woodward made a point of watching all this. He will have noted, for example, how there was no dissent aimed at Ryan Giggs, the assistant manager, or, more tellingly, the players.