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LegendaryActivity: 2534Merit: 1167 Re: bitcoinity.org/markets - live bitcoin price charts February 21, 2014, 05:00:11 AM #583 Quote from: luke.watson on February 16, 2014, 08:15:00 PM If there is Bitcoin on the exchange (which is anyone's guess)



That's exactly the point. It is not at all clear there is bitcoin on the exchange.



They are trading this weird GoxBTC thing against GoxUSD and what either of those mean in real units is anyone's guess (for GotBTC I guess you can look to bitcoinbuilder but for GoxUSD there is no organized market as far as I know).



It is totally misleading to label this as a USD vs. BTC price.



At this point they might as well be trading beanie babies against furbies.



That's exactly the point. It is not at all clear there is bitcoin on the exchange.They are trading this weird GoxBTC thing against GoxUSD and what either of those mean in real units is anyone's guess (for GotBTC I guess you can look to bitcoinbuilder but for GoxUSD there is no organized market as far as I know).It is totally misleading to label this as a USD vs. BTC price.At this point they might as well be trading beanie babies against furbies.

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Sr. MemberActivity: 247Merit: 250 Re: bitcoinity.org/markets - live bitcoin price charts February 21, 2014, 06:56:15 PM

Last edit: February 21, 2014, 10:21:54 PM by comboy #584



TL;DR exchanges can prove that:



they own specific amount of bitcoins

and that your bitcoins on their exchange are included in this amount

But they are not doing this yet. I'd like to do something towards changing this.



I'll give a shout out on Bitcoinity to the first exchange that implements it, and it will be displayed for a week under the page title (where sponsors are displayed). Another 3 weeks are going to the first exchange that implements it with volume over 1k BTC over the last 30 days. Exchange must include BTC/USD pair and it's not relevant whether it's currently listed on Bitcoinity or not (although it must provide full API - list of latest trades and orderbook).



I'm considering sorting exchanges not only by volume, but first including those that provide such proof if the idea works out.



edit: to clarify, it does not have to use this specific implementation, as long as the one that it uses works as a proof There was some discussion today that started around here: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1yj5b5/unverified_pastebin_gmaxwell_irc_log_mtgox_was/cfkze3p and here's some more explanation: https://iwilcox.me.uk/v/nofrac TL;DR exchanges can prove that:But they are not doing this yet. I'd like to do something towards changing this.I'll give a shout out on Bitcoinity to the first exchange that implements it, and it will be displayed for a week under the page title (where sponsors are displayed). Another 3 weeks are going to the first exchange that implements it with volume over 1k BTC over the last 30 days. Exchange must include BTC/USD pair and it's not relevant whether it's currently listed on Bitcoinity or not (although it must provide full API - list of latest trades and orderbook).I'm considering sorting exchanges not only by volume, but first including those that provide such proof if the idea works out.edit: to clarify, it does not have to use this specific implementation, as long as the one that it uses works as a proof Variance is a bitch!

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LegendaryActivity: 1428Merit: 1000 Re: bitcoinity.org/markets - live bitcoin price charts February 21, 2014, 07:10:51 PM #585 Quote from: comboy on February 21, 2014, 06:56:15 PM



TL;DR exchanges can prove that:



they own specific amount of bitcoins

and that your bitcoins on their exchange are included in this amount

But they are not doing this yet. I'd like to do something towards changing this.



I'll give shout out to the first exchange that implements it on Bitcoinity, and it will be displayed for a week under the page title (where sponsors are displayed). Another 3 weeks are going to the first exchange that implements it with volume over 1k BTC over the last 30 days. Exchange must include BTC/USD pair and it's not relevant whether it's currently listed on Bitcoinity or not (although it must provide full API - list of latest trades and orderbook).



I'm considering sorting exchanges not only by volume, but first including those that provide such proof if the idea works out.

There was some discussion today that started around here: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1yj5b5/unverified_pastebin_gmaxwell_irc_log_mtgox_was/cfkze3p and here's some more explanation: https://iwilcox.me.uk/v/nofrac TL;DR exchanges can prove that:But they are not doing this yet. I'd like to do something towards changing this.I'll give shout out to the first exchange that implements it on Bitcoinity, and it will be displayed for a week under the page title (where sponsors are displayed). Another 3 weeks are going to the first exchange that implements it with volume over 1k BTC over the last 30 days. Exchange must include BTC/USD pair and it's not relevant whether it's currently listed on Bitcoinity or not (although it must provide full API - list of latest trades and orderbook).I'm considering sorting exchanges not only by volume, but first including those that provide such proof if the idea works out.

I love that idea. any exchange should do this a long time ago.

do you have an idea how an exchange could implement this?



maybe a unique token for every user (which only the user can see) and a public list with amounts and tokens?



of course they would have to show their addresses to public (and sign a message or something to proove they have control).



this can also be cheated (say you are an exchange and you just ask a whale if he would provide the prove for a small fee)



EDIT: i see.. gmaxwells idea sounds very nice I love that idea. any exchange should do this a long time ago.do you have an idea how an exchange could implement this?maybe a unique token for every user (which only the user can see) and a public list with amounts and tokens?of course they would have to show their addresses to public (and sign a message or something to proove they have control).this can also be cheated (say you are an exchange and you just ask a whale if he would provide the prove for a small fee)EDIT: i see.. gmaxwells idea sounds very nice

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Full MemberActivity: 126Merit: 100 Re: bitcoinity.org/markets - live bitcoin price charts February 21, 2014, 07:16:14 PM #586 Quote from: comboy on February 21, 2014, 06:56:15 PM



TL;DR exchanges can prove that:



they own specific amount of bitcoins

and that your bitcoins on their exchange are included in this amount

But they are not doing this yet. I'd like to do something towards changing this.



I'll give shout out to the first exchange that implements it on Bitcoinity, and it will be displayed for a week under the page title (where sponsors are displayed). Another 3 weeks are going to the first exchange that implements it with volume over 1k BTC over the last 30 days. Exchange must include BTC/USD pair and it's not relevant whether it's currently listed on Bitcoinity or not (although it must provide full API - list of latest trades and orderbook).



I'm considering sorting exchanges not only by volume, but first including those that provide such proof if the idea works out.

There was some discussion today that started around here: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1yj5b5/unverified_pastebin_gmaxwell_irc_log_mtgox_was/cfkze3p and here's some more explanation: https://iwilcox.me.uk/v/nofrac TL;DR exchanges can prove that:But they are not doing this yet. I'd like to do something towards changing this.I'll give shout out to the first exchange that implements it on Bitcoinity, and it will be displayed for a week under the page title (where sponsors are displayed). Another 3 weeks are going to the first exchange that implements it with volume over 1k BTC over the last 30 days. Exchange must include BTC/USD pair and it's not relevant whether it's currently listed on Bitcoinity or not (although it must provide full API - list of latest trades and orderbook).I'm considering sorting exchanges not only by volume, but first including those that provide such proof if the idea works out.

Jebus! I thought they already were doing this!! That's what I get for assuming people aren't idiots - which makes me one.

Thanks for the heads up, can't wait to see what you find. I use your site for price indexing exclusively btw. Jebus! I thought they already were doing this!! That's what I get for assuming people aren't idiots - which makes me one.Thanks for the heads up, can't wait to see what you find. I use your site for price indexing exclusively btw. Ladies ladies, one at a time.

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NewbieActivity: 20Merit: 0 Re: bitcoinity.org/markets - live bitcoin price charts February 23, 2014, 08:17:10 AM

Last edit: February 23, 2014, 08:50:24 AM by vaguhs #589

The only time I look at it is then bitcoinwisdom is down.

Make your website useful



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35XI37SVVYI Why don't you add a 1m 3m 5m charts your chart are useless.The only time I look at it is then bitcoinwisdom is down.Make your website useful

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LegendaryActivity: 1722Merit: 1037WalletScrutiny.com Re: bitcoinity.org/markets - live bitcoin price charts February 23, 2014, 02:40:30 PM

Last edit: February 23, 2014, 02:56:26 PM by giszmo #590 Quote from: comboy on February 21, 2014, 06:56:15 PM I'm considering sorting exchanges not only by volume, but first including those that provide such proof if the idea works out.



I totally support such a motion!

To start with proof of solvency, a daily proof of millions could already give them a small batch of trust. The proof of "my" funds being there is essential to ensure a 100% coverage but not to gain some basic trust. Without reading all at your links I would assume it would collide with cold storage and transaction policies/habits at the existing exchanges to have each and everyone's money separated/provably available or if it doesn't it could be arbitrarily complicated.



Also I would extend your suggestion to not only include a provably solvent (but may next second insolvent with zero money) badge but also provide another badge for provably save bitcoin deposits:

If I proof to the exchange that I have and am willing to trade a certain amount of bitcoins, there should not be a need to let them hold them. Any amount that is not on the orderbook naturally does not (and I think should not) sit on the exchange. In order to be able to quickly trade, traders would still need a way to get their coins there within milliseconds rather than minutes or even 6 blocks. Therefore exchanges could have an incentive to implement off-chain transactions using micropayment channels. With this in place, an exchange could release some (open source) client to their exchange that the user can connect to the exchange and take full control of his trades. This could even work for the orderbook. If the user is disconnected, his offers drop out of the order book. If an order is met, the client has to approve the release of the corresponding amount of bitcoins and if it fails to do so within a second, it would get penalized. This much more complex order book with dependency on external clients would come at a cost that clients that want this security should pay for and maybe it comes at a cost that would require a few slow-down mechanisms like 60s settlement intervals with minimum order volume or a price per minute an order stays on the order book but I guess this would be a price power traders with thousands of bitcoins locked up in exchanges would be willing to pay. Or in other words I guess once implemented, the overhead would not be that dramatic. I totally support such a motion!To start with proof of solvency, a daily proof of millions could already give them a small batch of trust. The proof of "my" funds being there is essential to ensure a 100% coverage but not to gain some basic trust. Without reading all at your links I would assume it would collide with cold storage and transaction policies/habits at the existing exchanges to have each and everyone's money separated/provably available or if it doesn't it could be arbitrarily complicated.Also I would extend your suggestion to not only include a provably solvent (but may next second insolvent with zero money) badge but also provide another badge for provably save bitcoin deposits:If I proof to the exchange that I have and am willing to trade a certain amount of bitcoins, there should not be a need to let them hold them. Any amount that is not on the orderbook naturally does not (and I think should not) sit on the exchange. In order to be able to quickly trade, traders would still need a way to get their coins there within milliseconds rather than minutes or even 6 blocks. Therefore exchanges could have an incentive to implement off-chain transactions using micropayment channels. With this in place, an exchange could release some (open source) client to their exchange that the user can connect to the exchange and take full control of his trades. This could even work for the orderbook. If the user is disconnected, his offers drop out of the order book. If an order is met, the client has to approve the release of the corresponding amount of bitcoins and if it fails to do so within a second, it would get penalized. This much more complex order book with dependency on external clients would come at a cost that clients that want this security should pay for and maybe it comes at a cost that would require a few slow-down mechanisms like 60s settlement intervals with minimum order volume or a price per minute an order stays on the order book but I guess this would be a price power traders with thousands of bitcoins locked up in exchanges would be willing to pay. Or in other words I guess once implemented, the overhead would not be that dramatic. ɃɃ WalletScrutiny.com Is your wallet secure? (Methodology)

WalletScrutiny checks if wallet builds are reproducible, a precondition for code audits to be of value. ɃɃ

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NewbieActivity: 8Merit: 0 Re: bitcoinity.org/markets - live bitcoin price charts February 26, 2014, 01:27:47 AM #594 Quote from: comboy on February 17, 2014, 10:14:19 AM I set the main default for the website manually at the moment (and it's USD/bitstamp). For everything else there's just algo that decides this based on exchanges and currencies volume. I set what you see when you first enter website manually because otherwise it would be huobi/CNY and not many people want to watch that. When you enter the website second time, you are displayed what you have been watching lately. So newcomers see USD/Bitstamp, others see what they visited lately. But yes, when you click on the currency you see the biggest exchange for given currency first.



I'd like to provide unbiased data, that has nothing to do with my personal opinion. Maybe mtgox should not be default for EUR. *Maybe*. But I'm not sure. I'd rather be coding than keeping track of all exchanges news, especially when it seems really hard to be able to track down facts and not just people opinions. If I would use my personal opinion, btc-e for example would not be on the website anymore based on my support experience with them.



Didn't know this forum existed on Bitcointalk before you posted the link here today. Wanted to say that I love your site, and I really appreciate the mentality you have of letting the data speak for itself, popularity contests be damned.



Keep up the amazing work, and thank you! Didn't know this forum existed on Bitcointalk before you posted the link here today. Wanted to say that I love your site, and I really appreciate the mentality you have of letting the data speak for itself, popularity contests be damned.Keep up the amazing work, and thank you!