Violence statistics Professor Carmody has worked on social ethics with teenage footballers in Sydney, and is encouraged by the results. ''When we followed up six months later, these 16- and 17-year-olds had lots of examples of how they had intervened in a safe way in situations. For example, if a woman was drunk in a club and their mate tried to pick her up, they had said 'That's not OK' and got a taxi for the girl.'' She said men can be aggressive to other men who don't fit the standard model of masculinity, but initiatives such as the White Ribbon campaign, which encourages high-profile sportsmen and businessmen to pledge to condemn violence against women, were a positive example. ''We need to find programs that work positively before violence becomes entrenched in boys' behaviour, and look at what are the building blocks for a new cultural norm, because we don't want to spend $16 million a year to deal with the aftermath of domestic violence,'' Professor Carmody said.

Families Minister Pru Goward said the government wanted strong evidence on which domestic violence programs worked to inform the focus on violence prevention, right from childhood. ''Supporting men who use violence, or perhaps might do so, to change their behaviour is an integral part of violence prevention.'' The head of a new domestic violence hotline for men says men who act violently towards their family are generally ashamed of their behaviour but avoid talking about it. But telephone counsellors in Victoria have encouraged thousands of men to admit to a problem they would refuse to discuss with their doctor or friends. The service will be launched in NSW in October.

''Men will initially be cagey about violence, but more often than not that's where the conversation goes,'' says Danny Blay, executive officer of the Men's Referral Service. ''It's an opportunity for men to start taking responsibility for what they have done.'' Men who are stalking or damaging property often don't see it as a problem, he says. ''We have a conversation about the impact of this behaviour on the people around. If we ask, 'Are your children scared of you?' it can have a profound effect.'' Women concerned about the violent behaviour of a male partner, brother or son would also be able to call the hotline, Ms Goward said.

Helpline for times of trouble He said he only wanted the best for his children. He wanted them to have better jobs and opportunities than he, with limited education, had. For 10 minutes the 51-year-old talked on the phone about the constant arguments he had with his four children - two teenagers and two adults - and, increasingly, his wife. He believed she took the children's side in any fight. The conflict was worse with the two children who were unemployed. They couldn't be bothered looking for a job, he said. Then the counsellor asked if anything had happened in the past few days. There was a pause. The man admitted he had assaulted his son, who was hospitalised, and the family had called the police. He had been arrested and charged, and ordered not to go within 200 metres of the family home, or call or email. He said he was living temporarily with a friend 25 kilometres from his family, but would soon have nowhere else to go. The magistrate had given him the telephone counselling number.

The 51-year-old was remorseful about his behaviour, and wanted to change. The counsellor listened, and provided contacts for a homeless shelter, and suggested he join a men's behaviour change program, giving details of four agencies with programs. Based on a call to a Melbourne telephone counselling service that will begin taking calls from the public in NSW from October.