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10/16/2008

'Oh My!' Space

by Jeremy Hooper

To learn about the mindset that's pushing Proposition 8, you can listen to what the official "yes on 8" team is saying. However, for some real insight into the gas that's fueling this regressive train, you have to listen to the real life supporters who aren't bound by agreed-upon messaging and politically advantageous code-wording. Such insight can be found on the official "yes on 8" Myspace page.

Here are a few comments that have been left on the page:

First up, someone who buys into the silly idea that we gays are the ones who are "bullying" here:



Next, here's someone who fails to understand how deeply personal this fight is to gay folks, and why this vote goes well beyond a simple political choice:



Here's a quartet of comments, all of which seize ownership of God and morality:









On the God theme, here's a trio who THINK they understand the separation of church and state, yet fail to understand the clear difference between civil policy and personal faith conviction:







This one says that gays' "I dos" will rob the world of smiles:



This one equates gay "I dos" to beating a kid:



This one combines two elements we've already seen: Failure to understand how personal this issue is to gay people, as well as a failure to understand church/state separation and what civil marriage equality means for the same:



So there ya have it. A slew of comments, none of which come from any place of truth. Not surprising, considering that the entire Proposition 8 campaign is built on lies. They lie. It's what they do. And even worse, they refuse to listen to or at least acknowledge any of the people who point our the fallaciousness of their arguments. We can say until we are blue in the face that churches will not be forced to marry gays, just as churches are not forced to marry ANYONE even now. But will they listen? No. They will twist some sort of a situation that's already happened and apply it to the California fight to create some fear-mongery "warning sign" about the hell that gay marriage will bring. And we can point out the difference between religious and civil marriage until we are blue in the face. These folks have already made up their minds and stuck their fingers in their ears.

To lose to this would be personally painful, since it would have a very real impact on many of our lives. But beyond that, a loss to this sort of logic is a loss for reasoned thought in general. Any intellectual who values the accurate exchange of ideas and the reasoned implementation of civil policy should be standing up to knock back these thoroughly foolish claims. If not for us, then for the children.

**UPDATE, 10/27: Wow, some of them are literally gunnin' for us!



Your thoughts

Man, oh man. Please keep the "wacko comments" posts coming; they would be pure comedy gold if they weren't so sad. And what the hell is all this about "forcing churches to change"? That's a nice talking point for their cause, strikes fear effectively into the hearts of their followers, and has absolutely no factual basis whatsoever. Man, these people are confused. Misled. Lied to. I really feel very sorry for them.

Posted by: JeffRob | Oct 16, 2008 10:46:38 AM



If there really are enough non-thinking low information people in California to pass this proposition (it hurts to even think that), doesn't such a proposal have to pass constitutional muster as rendered by the same justices that struck down marriage discrimination last May, before it can become law?

Posted by: dave b | Oct 16, 2008 1:39:46 PM

That's my understanding Dave.

Posted by: Priya Lynn | Oct 16, 2008 2:33:29 PM

Well, Dave, Prop 8 would become law unless gay couples effected by prop 8 challenge its constitutionality. They could request a stay in the implementation of prop 8 to the appropriate lower court based on the state SC ruling. Whether or not this is granted, they would pursue their case through the years long process till the State SC made another ruling in this particular matter. Prop 2 in CO, which banned laws providing equal treatment of gays in housing, employment and so on, was defeated in this way. This was also a constitutional amendment. The chief justice of the CO SC later said, "The majority cannot use the ballot box to vote away the rights of the minority." The power of the May 15th CA SC decision is not just expanding current marriage rights to gays, but that they also declared that gays are a "suspect class." This means that since gays have been so marginalized in the past, there has to be, not just some reason, but one hell of a good reason why they are to be treated different than straights in any legal matter. There has to be a "compelling state interest" in order to do so. Blacks are also a suspect class, and very, very few legitimate reasons have been found to discriminate against them, believe me.

Posted by: Bill Ware | Oct 17, 2008 6:30:30 PM

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