Virginia Heffernan talks to New York Times op-ed writer Jennifer Senior about her latest piece exploring the effect of Trump’s narcissism on the coronavirus crisis, a profile of narcissists’ weaknesses, and the strategy of using “yes, and” on the president in order to sneak actual facts in.

Podcast production by Melissa Kaplan.

Further Reading:

“This Is What Happens When a Narcissist Runs a Crisis,” by Jennifer Senior in the New York Times