Political debate seems inescapable. The election of Donald Trump has at once reflected and amplified long-simmering divisions along lines of party affiliation, race, religion, and even regional identity.

Reza Aslan’s exchanges with pundits and news anchors have gone viral. In one clip, he and his CNN colleague Kayleigh McEnany, spar over Michael Flynn’s comments about Islam. In another, Aslan rebuts a Fox News anchor who questions whether Aslan, a scholar of religions who happens to be a Muslim, should even be writing about Jesus Christ. Aslan doesn’t often back down from a debate, and often leaves victorious.

Amid a discussion of Aslan’s new CNN show, Believer, The Hive asked him to share some tips for those inclined to go toe-to-toe with Trump supporters. He indulged us. What follows is an edited transcript of his guidelines.

“The best advice that I can always give, when confronting somebody who holds radically different views and opinions and just conceptions of the world—or reality for that matter—is to meet them where they are. In other words, to argue on their terms. So when you’ve got someone like Paul Ryan lauding himself as this devout Catholic, and yet he’s willing to turn back orphans and widows who are being slaughtered by their own government, it’s not that hard to point out the fallacy of that viewpoint.

“It’s not hard to be able to say, ‘That is not what it means to be a Catholic; that’s not what it means to be Christian.’ And there’s no argument against that, there’s no way to say, ‘No, no, no; Jesus really hates widows and orphans, it’s fine, don’t worry about it.’

“When you’re confronting these Trump supporters who think that a Muslim ban is there to keep us safer, I think it’s not that difficult to show them that it doesn’t make us safer, it actually makes us more threatened. So it doesn’t matter whether you support Trump or not; whether you’re Republican or not; it doesn’t matter what the color of your skin is. If you want your children to be safe, then this is not the way to do so.

“When confronting those who feel as though what we really need to do is curtail the rights and privileges of certain of our citizens here in the United States, again, it’s not that hard to use their patriotism against them. To use their love of America, belief in American exceptionalism against them. To simply say that, ‘Actually the country that you love is not predicated on what you believe.’

“It doesn’t always work, but for me, I think it’s always better—if the goal is to truly change someone’s mind—to argue with them on their turf, meet them on their turf, use their own ideas to point out the flaws in their thinking.”

Here’s an example of Aslan using similar techniques.