Re: Censorship in Debian

To: debian-project@lists.debian.org

Subject: Re: Censorship in Debian

From: Norbert Preining <norbert@preining.info>

Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2018 01:13:53 +0900

Message-id: <[🔎] 20181225161353.GA10000@burischnitzel.preining.info>

In-reply-to: <[🔎] abae9edf-ac63-b4f1-4078-102b8d238271@pocock.pro>

Hi everyone, (please Cc me, I am not subscribed to d-p) first of all thanks to Daniel for bringing this up and standing up for me, this is very much appreciated. For those not aware of the issue, here is *my* view onto the events. AH and DAM can answer and provide their own interpretation. I will try to stay as objective as it is possible for me. 2018/09/21 I published the post "Sharp did it again" [1] using "it" as pronoun -same day- Chris Lamb disabled my blog on Planet based on "it" 2018/09/22 based on suggestions and explanations from others but Lamb I update the blog to use "they" 2018/09/24 Chris Lamb re-enables my blog on Planet 2018/11/26 I published the post "On Lars Wirzenius, Fun, and Debian" [2] 2018/11/27 Laura Arjona Reina disables my blog on Planet 2018/11/28 I respond to Laura Arjona Reina's email asking for clarification due to the explanation being unclear to me (see attached email 1) 2018/12/04 Due to absence of any answer at all, I enable my blog on Planet, but remove the post about Lars Wirzenius from the respective RSS feed 2018/12/17 The DAM sends me an email about demotion to Debian Maintainer based on a set of emails mostly from 2012-2014 during the discussions on systemd and coc: 2012: 1 email 2013: 7 emails 2014: 5 emails 2015: 1 email 2016: 0 emails 2017: 2 emails 2018: 2 emails some of these emails are actually not from me, but these are the emails used as argumentation (see attached email 2) Points I consider disturbing: * AH never answered my questions, and above that I assume that the email the called out in their recent "bit from the anti harassement team" about being "a harassment of the team" is my email. I ask everyone to judge by himself whether my email as attached is to be considered harassment. * The demotion to Debian Maintainer is - as far as I read the consitution [3], the delegation of DAM [4], and the DAM Wiki page about their rights and powers [5], not legit since besides expulsion there is not procedure laid out for demotion, but I refrained from raising this for the sake of peace. There are more disturbing things going on where I suspect that members of Debian have taken unduly influence on procedures concerning me, but since I don't have proofs I cannot raise them here. Coming back to the argumentation of DAM, I agree that back in 2012-2014 I have written a few strong emails during the systemd and coc discussion. Not to defense myself, but I have the feeling that I was not the only one. Furthermore, most of the emails cited by DAM clearly predate the CoC, and the emails after installment of the CoC are, in my opinion just simply frank and staight. Anyway, this is the status. I invite everyone to form his/her own opinion. As I posted on the Debian TeX ML, I will not be doing an awful lot of work for Debian due to this demotion. I still think that Debian is the best Linux distribution - but *only* due to the excellent work of its developers. Best Norbert [1] https://www.preining.info/blog/2018/09/sharp-did-it-again/ [2] https://www.preining.info/blog/2018/11/on-lars-wirzenius-fun-and-debian/ [3] https://www.debian.org/devel/constitution [4] https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2018/03/msg00001.html [5] https://wiki.debian.org/DAManager -- PREINING Norbert http://www.preining.info Accelia Inc. + JAIST + TeX Live + Debian Developer GPG: 0x860CDC13 fp: F7D8 A928 26E3 16A1 9FA0 ACF0 6CAC A448 860C DC13

--- Begin Message --- To: Laura Arjona Reina <larjona@debian.org>

Cc: da-manager@debian.org, planet@debian.org, Anti-harassment <antiharassment@debian.org>, Chris Lamb <lamby@debian.org>

Subject: Re: Blog disabled on Planet Debian

From: Norbert Preining <norbert@preining.info>

Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2018 01:31:20 +0900

Message-id: <20181127163120.GA15381@bulldog.preining.info>

In-reply-to: <2573b4b9-cbb1-84bb-26d4-c8197e459908@debian.org>

References: <2573b4b9-cbb1-84bb-26d4-c8197e459908@debian.org> Dear Laura, thanks for your email. To make things clear from the start: Unless explicitely stated below, I do not consider this email communication private and will publicize it if need arises. Thanks for your understanding. Now to the matter at hand. I am a bit surprised that without even one word of notice you have disabled by blog on Planet Debian. Furthermore, I consider the explanation of your verdict unclear and bare of any argumentation, and thus ask you to answer the following questions: Question 1: persistent pattern of disrespectful communication ------------------------------------------------------------- You state that ... evaluate your long term behaviour, ... ... persistent pattern of disrespectful communication towards other members of the community. without providing any evidence. I have been contacted once by Chris Lamb (in Cc in case you want to verify my statements) about my blog Sharp did it again [1] where I used the incorrect pronoun. Within 24h I have updated the blog original email by Chris: Fri, 21 Sep 2018 17:20:22 +0100 mail about update by me: Sat, 22 Sep 2018 05:09:42 +0900 second update by me: Sat, 22 Sep 2018 08:29:47 +0900 Besides this, please point me to other instances of disrespectful communication towards other members (besides, Sharp is not a member of Debian). I have published about 400 or more posts on my site. Please explain me what your definition is of persistent pattern even if you take the above one into account, and how your definition applies to me. Question 2: tone that is inappropriate for Planet Debian -------------------------------------------------------- My post consists mostly of quotes from blogs aggregated on Debian Planet. Where in specific is the "inappropriate tone"? Furthermore, this post is modeled after Lars Wirzenius original post On Norbert Preining, Sarah Sharp, and Debian [2] Please explain why his post is not considered "inappropriate" and he has not been banished from Debian Planet! Question 3: not to harm ----------------------- I clearly stated my gratitude for his long work for Debian, despite our obvious differences in opinions. I honor his work, even if I disagree with some things Lars has proposed and forwarded within Debian. Please explain why you feel like this post is harming, in particular who, how, and why? References [1] https://www.preining.info/blog/2018/09/sharp-did-it-again/ [2] https://blog.liw.fi/posts/preining/ On Tue, 27 Nov 2018, Laura Arjona Reina wrote: > Hello Norbert, > > I'm writing to you on behalf of the Debian anti-harassment team. > We had been asked to evaluate your long term behaviour, > after one high-visibility instance of disrespect on Planet Debian. > > We notice that there is a persistent pattern of disrespectful communication > towards other members of the community. > > In addition to this, we believe the recently published post > https://www.preining.info/blog/2018/11/on-lars-wirzenius-fun-and-debian/ > has a tone that is inappropriate for Planet Debian. > > Maybe it's written with no intention to do harm, but it seems it's not written > to *not do harm* either. The result is several people feeling uncomfortable > and undermining of efforts to improve the health of the community. > > Therefore, regardless of other actions that may be taken, I have removed > your blog from Planet Debian. > > Regards, > Laura Arjona Reina > https://wiki.debian.org/LauraArjona -- PREINING Norbert http://www.preining.info Accelia Inc. + JAIST + TeX Live + Debian Developer GPG: 0x860CDC13 fp: F7D8 A928 26E3 16A1 9FA0 ACF0 6CAC A448 860C DC13

--- End Message ---

--- Begin Message --- To: Norbert Preining <norbert@preining.info>

Cc: da-manager@debian.org

Subject: Debian Developer status

From: Debian Account Managers <da-manager@debian.org>

Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2018 21:23:22 +0100

Message-id: <20181217202322.rnbe7c6qxupo4wys@enricozini.org> Hello, recently we got contacted with complaints about your attitude and behaviour in Debian. Looking deeper into this, it appears to be a long history and our impression is that you seem to ignore the issues raised while attacking the people who raise them. This appears on both, planet and mailing lists, with some posts calling[1] you[2] out, and you being temporarily[3] removed from planet. Not that other[4] posts[5] from you seem to be respectful or constructive, nor does it appear to be the[6] case[7] with[8] loads[9] of[10] mailing[11] list[12] posts[13]. This is damaging the working environment in the project, with people needing to step[14] in[15] to restore a decent working environmet after one of your interventions. These issues have[16] been[17] raised[18] to you[19] several[20] times[21] over[22] the years, and you have normally responded by denying the issues and attacking the people who tried to raise them. See for example[23]. On nov 27, the antiharassment team removed your blog post from Planet again, because of yet another reiteration of these problems. Your response, even though it was framed like asking questions, again it read as an accusation to the people, a delegated team in this case, who, once again, called you out. On dec 4, you have unilaterally readded yourself to Planet Debian. This has gone on for long enough. We do not believe that you currently have any intention of being a constructive member of Debian, and we see little hope for improvement as it is. Therefore, we are revoking your status as a Debian Developer with immediate effect. You remain a Debian Maintainer for a minimum of 6 months, after which you can apply for getting your Debian Developer status back. All packages in which you are currently listed as maintainer or uploader will be added to your Debian Maintainer whitelist as soon as possible. Your blog has been removed again from Planet Debian, and will remain so for 3 months. After 3 months you can ask any DD or the Planet admins to readd your feed. After a minimum of 6 months you can apply to get your Debian Developer status back by mailing da-manager@debian.org We are sending this email privately, leaving its disclosure as your decision (although traces in public databases are unavoidable). The Debian Account Managers, Enrico Zini Joerg Jaspert Jonathan Wiltshire Footnotes: [1] https://blog.liw.fi/posts/preining/ [2] https://blog.tincho.org/posts/Pining_for_the_good_ol__39___days/ [3] https://salsa.debian.org/planet-team/config/commit/216930f1f3f906ef4cc28457b94d10ba844e3074 [4] https://www.preining.info/blog/2018/08/perl-policy/ [5] https://www.preining.info/blog/2017/04/systemd-again/ [6] https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2013/10/msg00486.html [7] https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2014/07/msg01014.html [8] https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2014/12/msg00003.html [9] https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2017/10/msg00425.html [10] https://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2015/09/msg00039.html [11] https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2014/01/msg00270.html [12] https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2013/09/msg00104.html [13] https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2012/11/msg00747.html [14] https://lists.debian.org/debconf-discuss/2018/08/msg00134.html [15] https://lists.debian.org/debconf-discuss/2018/08/msg00148.html [16] https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2014/07/msg00841.html [17] https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2014/07/msg00856.html [18] https://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2013/05/msg00070.html [19] https://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2013/05/msg00081.html [20] https://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2013/05/msg00085.html [21] https://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2017/10/msg00438.html [22] https://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2013/05/msg00079.html [23] https://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2013/05/msg00080.html Attachment: signature.asc

Description: PGP signature

--- End Message ---