Editor's note: The following story was published in the August 2004 issue of Esquire. During the 2016 presidential election, Donald Trump has repeatedly claimed to have been against the Iraq War from the beginning, and he has cited this story as proof. The Iraq War began in March 2003, more than a year before this story ran, thus nullifying Trump's timeline. More details can be found here.

Do you mind if I sign these contracts while we talk? Ever since The Apprentice, my life has gotten so much busier.

It's been an interesting run. Some people say, "The Apprentice has made you even bigger." To a certain extent, it has. Now young kids see me and come running over, screaming, "You're fired! You're fired!" I'm not sure kids knew who I was before The Apprentice.

It's sort of interesting when you think about it. What I do on the show essentially is analyze people and then fire somebody—sometimes pretty viciously. And that makes people think I'm a nice guy. Whereas before, they viewed me as a bit of an ogre. Maybe it's because people knew me only through the press; they didn't know the person behind the name.

The audience either likes you or it doesn't. Obviously, the audience likes me.

One thing about television, it brings out personality. People are able to watch me in action. They hear my voice and see my eyes. There's nothing I can hide. That's me. Television brings out your flaws, your weaknesses, your strengths, and you truths. The audience either likes you or it doesn't. Obviously, the audience likes me.

In the history of the business, there's never been anything like this—a businessman has the highest-rated show on television. Businessmen don't even get on TV, let alone have the number-one show. What can I—[phone interrupts]. Hold on, I want to take this....Reeeeeg! How are you? ... I'm sitting here with Esquire magazine. They're putting me on the cover. It's a story about...wait, I'll let him tell you. [Turns on speakerphone.]

Esquire: What it feels like to be an American icon.

Regis Philbin: Honest to God? When is this going to end? He's invaded my territory, pushed me right off the television screen. Now he's the great American icon?

Trump: Hey, why only American? Why not the world?

Regis: Now, look, Trump. Remember to smile when they photograph you—

Trump: You know, Reeg gave me some tips—

Regis: I told Trump, "Don't let them make you scream and yell at these people when you fire them. Do it quickly, succinctly, and with a little kindness." And he's done it to a tee.

Trump: Who knows better than my man Reeg?

Regis: Anyone who's ever driven to Atlantic City knows that Trump's got a big billboard. For years, you used to see his angry face on it. I said, "Trump, that expression is making people afraid to go to the Taj Mahal. Why don't you give them a big smile.? 'C'mon in, folks! Spend your money here!'" I think we got that corrected. Listen, he's an all-time superstar. You're lucky that you're with him right now. You're getting the Trumpster at the height of his television career.

Trump: Which may be only another two months, right? [Smiles to himself, turns off speakerphone, chats privately with Reeg for a minute, then resumes.]

You know, I don't kid myself about the show. If it doesn't get ratings, it's off. Look, if I came up with a cure for cancer and it didn't get ratings, they wouldn't put it on. That's how vicious that business is. I was talking to Lorne Michaels, who's been doing Saturday Night Live for close to thirty years, about ratings. I said, "You know how it goes, Lorne. Someday they'll call you and say, 'Your ratings are slipping rapidly and your show is going to be canceled.'" And he said, "Donald, you're wrong. They won't even bother calling."

His thumbs are pointing to where he's heading. Joe Raedle Getty Images

Everything I do in life is framed through the view of a businessman. That's my instinct. If I go into a pharmacy to buy shaving cream, then I'm going to look for the best deal on shaving cream. I watch Carmelo Anthony play and think, How stupid was it for Melo to be drafted third? Can you explain that one to me? Look, I watched Detroit. Carmelo still would have been one of the best players on the team. He's as smooth as silk. And Detroit uses its second pick to take this kid from Serbia. A project. First year, the guy doesn't even play. A friend of mine says, "It's gonna work out for them. It's gonna be good." What's gonna be good? No matter how good Detroit is, is this Darko gonna be better than Carmelo? And even if he does become good in four or five years, he'll look somewhere else for more money, right? I just can't believe it. How stupid a move was that?

My life is seeing everything in terms of "How would I handle that?" Look at the war in Iraq and the mess that we're in. I would never have handled it that way. Does anybody really believe that Iraq is going to be a wonderful democracy where people are going to run down to the voting box and gently put in their ballot and the winner is happily going to step up to lead the county? C'mon. Two minutes after we leave, there's going to be a revolution, and the meanest, toughest, smartest, most vicious guy will take over. And he'll have weapons of mass destruction, which Saddam didn't have.

I would have been tougher on terrorism. Bin Laden would have been caught long ago.

What was the purpose of this whole thing? Hundreds and hundreds of young people killed. And what about the people coming back with no arms and legs? Not to mention the other side. All those Iraqi kids who've been blown to pieces. And it turns out that all of the reasons for the war were blatantly wrong. All this for nothing!

I would have been tougher on terrorism. Bin Laden would have been caught long ago. Tell me, how is it possible that we can't find a guy who's six foot six and supposedly needs a dialysis machine? Can you explain that one to me? We have all out energies focused on one place—where they shouldn't be focused.

When I look at some of the things that happened in government, I can't believe it. Countries that we're protecting are screwing us on oil prices. It's unthinkable. I wouldn't stand for it. How would I handle that? That's what it feels like to be me.

But it's more than that. I'm competitive, and I love to create challenges for myself. Maybe that's not always a good thing. It can make life complicated. I've gone through so many phases—although to me it's been one steady life. I used to be thought of as an eighties phenomenon. When the real estate market crashed in the early nineties, I was billions in the hole. Yet right now my company is bigger, stronger, and more powerful than ever. The show is the biggest thing on TV. And I'm saying to myself, Where do you go from here? And my answer is: I have no idea.

As told to Cal Fussman.

Published in the August 2004 issue.

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