Appearing Wednesday on The Intercept’s Deconstructed podcast, far-left moviemaker Michael Moore said both President Donald Trump and Vice President Mike Pence could both be impeached, paving the way for House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) to become president.

A transcript is as follows:

MEHDI HASAN: A lot of liberals and people on the left, when you say “Impeach Trump,” not a lot, but there’s a faction of people I hear over the last couple of years, “Impeaching Trump, if he was to be convicted and removed from office, you get President Mike Pence, who is worse in many ways because he’s an ideologue.” Do you share that world view?

MICHAEL MOORE: Pence is caught up in the Ukraine crime, and Pence will go too.

HASAN: Woah, you’re calling for President Pelosi? That’s what happens next, right?

MOORE: Well, year. Remember Agnew went before Nixon, Agnew was Nixon’s vice president, and that was about a year before that Watergate impeachment. There may not be enough time, but what the Constitution says has to happen is, Pence becomes president [if President Trump is impeached] and then the next in line is Nancy Pelosi. But he may go with Trump. I think that this will probably end up in the courts, or at least at the Supreme Court.

HASAN: I just want to get a sense of the room here, how you stand on a Trump vs. Pence presidency, here? Who would prefer a Trump presidency and rather he not be impeached and not get Pence? Who would prefer a Pence presidency to a Trump presidency?

MOORE: Here’s actually what is better about Pence over Trump. Pence has an ideology. Pence believes in things. Trump has no ideology, he only believes in Donald J. Trump.