Debi Daviau, right, is the president of the Professional Institute of the Public Service of Canada. THE CANADIAN PRESS/Sean Kilpatrick

The Canada Revenue employees are pressuring the agency to revamp an in-house system to take over pay operations and opt out of the calamitous Phoenix pay system.

The two unions representing the 40,000 employees at the tax agency are lobbying the Trudeau government for a change in CRA’s mandate that would allow it to pay its own employees using an existing in-house corporate administrative system – known as CAS — and stop using Phoenix.

Debi Daviau, president of the Professional Institute of the Public Service of Canada (PIPSC), said she was assured by CRA’s technology workers that the CAS system can be adapted into a pay system with the capacity to pay all employees. The Canada Border Services Agency also uses the same system for its more than 14,000 employees

In fact, IT workers, who are represented by PIPSC, posted a statement on the union’s website this week suggesting CRA thought the idea was a possible “solution” and a revamped CAS could be up and running between six to nine months.

In an email, CRA officials didn’t outright reject the idea, but said “CAS could not be operational as a pay system in the kind of timelines proposed by PIPSC.” The agency said it has made no request to leave Phoenix. It is working with the government to consider “any and all options.”

“If the Canada Revenue Agency (CRA) was able to implement an easy solution that would quickly stabilize the pay of its employees, it would already be implementing it,” said agency spokesperson Karl Lavoie.

But Daviau argued modifying the CAS system would be a faster and cheaper interim solution to pay workers while the government works on the new pay system that will eventually replace Phoenix. Treasury Board got $16 million in the budget to start the search for a new system which could take five or six years.

“I know it will take time to revamp the data in the system but I feel confident that it will be shorter than the six years the government is now saying it will take to build a new system,” said Daviau.

Daviau said she has informally discussed the idea with CRA management and “they haven’t said no” despite some reservations.

Daviau said she now plans to make a formal written proposal to the government – the first to suggest that the government abandon its longstanding goal of having all departments on a single pay system.

She has also pitched the idea to the MPs in the National Capital Region, who feel the brunt of complaints from unhappy public servants.

Marc Brière, president of the Union of Taxation Employees, said he backs the idea.

“I think it could be done,” he said. “I strongly believe that CRA should do a full analysis of whether the (CAS) system can be expanded to a full pay system and change the legislation so CRA can pay employees directly.”

Many federal departments have speculated behind the scenes about opting out of the new pay centre in Miramichi, N.B., and using their own compensation advisers. This is the first time pay frustrations have bubbled over into talk of a department dumping Phoenix.

The Senate, which has much more flexibility than departments, is the only federal institution that has so far opted to leave Phoenix and build its own pay system.

Public Services and Procurement Canada is the government’s only legal pay master. The Phoenix business plan was built on centralizing pay operations in Miramichi and moving 300,000 employees in 101 departments and agencies to the same pay system.

CRA is the biggest federal department. With 14,000 employees at CBSA, the two departments account for nearly 20 per cent of the employees paid by Phoenix. Their departure would be a major blow to PSPC’s business model for pay operations and could prompt other departments to defect.

“If CRA bails, other departments will want to bail too and that is the potential unravelling of the whole model this was built on, which is having everyone on the same pay system and eventually getting every department to use to Miramichi,” said one senior official.

The CRA uses CAS to directly enter data into Phoenix.

Daviau said the CAS system has been doing all the necessary pay day calculations and payroll costing, which are sent to Phoenix for final processing and payment every two weeks so there is no reason this couldn’t be expanded to “actually cut the pay cheques”

The system, built using SAP software, was created as help manage finance and human resources for the old Canada Customs and Revenue Agency, which was re-organized in 2003 and split into two departments: CRA and the CBSA.

CBSA still uses CAS and under the union’s proposal would also opt out of Phoenix.

Brière says CRA is a perfect candidate to leave Phoenix and it could be studied as a ‘pilot project’ for a future pay system. As a separate employer, CRA operates at arms-length from government with different pay rates and occupational groups from other departments.

But CRA also has fewer pay problems than other departments. Brière chalks this up to a number of reasons: it kept its own compensation advisers; doesn’t use the Miramichi pay centre and all its pay calculations and payroll costing are handled by the CAS system. CAS then sends that information to Phoenix to process payments.

He argued the big question is how much time would be needed to upgrade CAS, which he said could take several years – still faster than the time to build a new pay system to replace Phoenix.

CRA management and unions meet regularly to discuss Phoenix pay problems and the possibility of expanding the CAS into a “full-blown pay system” came up at a meeting last month. The unions decided to push it as an interim solution worth exploring while the government is looking for a permanent Phoenix replacement.

“We are in an exceptional situation and we need exceptional solutions and to think outside the box,” said Brière. “The government wants PSPC to pay people but it can’t do it right and on time. It’s unacceptable and it’s been going on for too long. Now they tell people that in five or six years we should be ok?”

Brière said he doesn’t think it would be feasible for CRA pay other departments but it could be ‘pilot project’ for PSPC or other departments to duplicate.

Daviau goes a step further. She argues that if the CAS can be used as a pay system then why couldn’t it be scaled or duplicated to handle payroll for other departments. She also questioned why other systems, particularly the 50-year-old regional pay system that was mothballed when Phoenix went live, can’t be reactivated.

“They should go out and examine all the systems we have and bring them back as interim systems to get people paid correctly…Once that’s done, we have the luxury of looking at the long-term and the be-all-end-all system of the future rather than in a crisis when three-quarters of all public servants are not paid correctly,” said Daviau.