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Chase, why is the name of your company Girls Chase?

[Chase Amante]: Hi Angel. Well, you know, I was looking for something unique and also short when I was trying to establish a domain name when I registered the website.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah.

[Chase Amante]: And one of the concepts, one of my core concepts of what I teach is getting women to pursue, chase after you, just because I feel like that makes things a lot easier and a lot more fun, for both parties, the man and the woman.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah, totally, totally. I know it's basically the theme we're going to talk about today. So we like to get to know our guests because one of the things we that we tell guys on the podcast is that you should really be looking to model people that have the type of experiences you aim to have in your own life and have already succeeded at their goals that you have in your life. So, first of all, to get to know you, like where do you live right now, where do you hang out and why?

[Chase Amante]: I'm back and forth between Asia and United States over here sort of as an odd twist of fate, I guess. I was in the US on the East Coast and the West Coast for most of my life, and I've traveled pretty much everywhere in between for business.

[Angel Donovan]: Mm-hmm.

[Chase Amante]: And a few years ago I decided that I had seen everything I need to see in the US for the intermediate-term future…

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah.

[Chase Amante]: …and decided to go head out in search of other things around the rest of the world. So I started looking at Colombia originally, just because everyone was telling me down there they have the most beautiful women, the warmest people, just this amazing weather.

[Angel Donovan]: Right, right. That's Medellin, right?

[Chase Amante]: Yeah, Medellin…

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah...

[Chase Amante]: …Bogota, what was it, Cali is the other one?

[Angel Donovan]: So I heard some people talk about Venezuela as well.

[Chase Amante]: Yeah, heard good things about Venezuela, checked out Argentina, been down to Peru in the past.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah.

[Chase Amante]: I had a girlfriend from Peru originally.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah.

[Chase Amante]: But the one thing that I kept hearing about South America and especially Colombia where I was looking was if you go out at night, eventually you're going to get robbed by these banditos with knives.

[Angel Donovan]: [Laughs]

[Chase Amante]: Maybe like six or seven guys come up to you with a knife and say, “Give me your money.”

[Angel Donovan]: Right.

[Chase Amante]: So everyone was saying you should carry around a spare wallet with you to give to these guys so that… a little bit of cash in it so that you save your real wallet.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah, that's a good technique. You know, South America’s always got that kind of like edgy security thing. Overall I've found—you know, I've been in various countries like you, I'm in Mexico now—and if you play it safe, you know, if you basically don’t step into the wrong parts of town and you're aware of nighttime, then it's pretty much okay. Like I know like Mexico right now, the bar street, the main bar street where I am, is not an ideal place to hang out at night. So it's probably similar to the places in Colombia from that respect.

[Chase Amante]: Yeah, sounds like it.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah. So how old are you?

[Chase Amante]: I am 30 years old.

[Angel Donovan]: Cool. And what’s your dating lifestyle like right now? What's a typical week rundown?

[Chase Amante]: A typical week kind of depends on where I am in the world. If I'm in a home city, usually I have a girlfriend that I'm more or less serious with.

[Angel Donovan]: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

[Chase Amante]: If I'm traveling, I’ll be going out meeting women.

[Angel Donovan]: Mm-hmm.

[Chase Amante]: And I tend to have relationships that are committed but not entirely settled or exclusive.

[Angel Donovan]: Great, great. What types of girls are you interested in for these long-term relationships?

[Chase Amante]: For long-term relationships, I tend to have more stringent criteria because I find that that weeds out a lot of problems and gives you better relationships, and I'm also… I'm a big believer in being very selective about the people that you have around you.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah.

[Chase Amante]: You've probably that if you look at someone’s five closest friends, you can describe the person themself.

[Angel Donovan]: Yup.

[Chase Amante]: And you should have people around you that are like you'd like to be.

[Angel Donovan]: Mm-hmm.

[Chase Amante]: So when I select a girl for a long-term relationship or any kind of girlfriend capacity—I actually stopped doing friends-with-benefit relationships years ago—

[Angel Donovan]: Mm-hmm.

[Chase Amante]: So it's basically either one-night stands or girlfriends for me. I can go into reasons for that if you're interested, but the criteria that I have for a girlfriend is she's got to be beautiful, otherwise I'm not going to really look at her anyway. She's got to be intelligent. She's got to have a master’s degree or be in the process of getting her master’s degree. That I find is a really easy way of screening and filtering women.

[Angel Donovan]: Mm-hmm.

[Chase Amante]: If she's beautiful and she's got a master’s degree, that takes care of a lot of stuff. She's smart. She's ambitious. She's able to focus on something for a given amount of time. Also, one of the things I like about women that this probably won't apply to everyone, I like strong, independent women who don’t need me and aren't going to form a strong attachment to me, because then you don’t get situations where you're with a girl who can't be without you, and even if you change your minds later it's like you're kind of stuck because her life’s going to fall apart if it's over.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah, you know, does that… like caring about basically girls, you can get kind of hurt when you break up… you know, it can be quite a horrible process if she can't let go easily and you're kind of moving on. It's not a nice thing to live through.

[Chase Amante]: Yeah.

[Angel Donovan]: I guess that's what you're talking about.

[Chase Amante]: Yeah. And also for her.

[Angel Donovan]: Oh, of course. I mean, but that's what I mean, like your feeling for her because she's so hurt, and you know, it hurts you because she's been so hurt, basically.

[Chase Amante]: Yeah.

[Angel Donovan]: So what’s the longest relationship you've had?

[Chase Amante]: The longest I've had with some breaks and breaking up and getting back together, which is another thing that I won't do anymore, was three-and-a-half years. It was an ex-girlfriend, actually we were married for some of that time.

[Angel Donovan]: Wow.

[Chase Amante]: Yeah.

[Angel Donovan]: Okay, that's interesting. I didn't know you were married. You've done way more than [laughs] experimentation with some of those things than I have.

[Chase Amante]: Indeed.

[Angel Donovan]: Okay, so it's good you ticked the marriage box. How did you find that? I mean, it's an interesting topic in itself, but is marriage for you or is it not for you or is it just it wasn’t right for you that time?

[Chase Amante]: Well, I come from a more conservative background, so I'm not too uncomfortable with the topic…

[Angel Donovan]: Mm-hmm.

[Chase Amante]: …but my perspective on marriage is sort of that it's a social institution that's sort of there for other people. You're doing it to announce to other people, “Hey, we're together!” you know. My perspective on it is if you have a man and a woman on a deserted island and there's no one else on the island, the two of them fall in love, they're not going to get married because there's nobody else there to watch it. They're just going to be together and that's it. So if you're getting married, it's a social thing and it's just there for other people.

So if I have girlfriend that I'm pretty serious, like I was with the woman I ended up getting married to, and she needs it for social support reasons, then I’ll say, “Okay, if you need to get married for social reasons, I'm fine with it. I don’t really believe in marriage, but I’ll do it for you if you need that and you want that.” So in that case we did, but I treated it like a boyfriend-girlfriend relationship even after marriage and I told her that I would before we did that. So even though we were married, we only lived together for sort of a short amount of time. Most of the time we were in separate apartments because I kind of needed to maintain my lifestyle. I get too cramped up if it's too much living together.

[Angel Donovan]: Hmm, that's interesting.

[Chase Amante]: I was pretty young too, so I wasn’t really in a place where I felt comfortable doing a totally settle down thing.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah, like, as you know, like a few people have got… a few people from the kind of pickup artist community have gotten married now. You have David DeAngelo/Eben Pagan, Neil Strauss, Nick Kho/Papa from RSD. There's quite a few people, obviously, like because it's been around 15 years now and people have moved on with their lives.

[Chase Amante]: You'll see a trend I've noticed where a lot of guys… it's almost a four- or five-year trend. Guys will come in, and then a lot of them, they start off, they're new, they don't know anything, they get pretty good. Around four or five years, a lot of the guys that everybody knows that have made names for themselves end up marrying off or having children or ending up with settled relationships. Now, sometimes they come out of it and get back into it again, but there's a very predictable trend and they all… like a generation of these guys all kind of marry up around the same time.

[Angel Donovan]: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

[Chase Amante]: But for me it was like, “Hey, if I got an opportunity, let me just knock this one out of the way so that it's no longer weird scary but it's already done and I can move on with my life.”

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah, yeah, totally.

[Chase Amante]: But one of the things that I see happening for a lot of guys is guys will point out a lot of things. So okay, I'm going to do this pickup thing but, you know, marriage or settling down or whatever, they're afraid of a lot of these things. But the things that they will probably do, at some point anyway, having children is another one, a lot of things the guys are afraid of, they’ll say, “I'm never going to do that,” and then you see them 10 years later and they're doing that. You say, “Oh, what happened man? You said you were never going to do that.”

[Angel Donovan]: Mm-hmm.

[Chase Amante]: The guy’s like, “Yeah, well, you know, I've kind of…” So my approach is if you have anything that you look at it and you say, “I never want to do that, that's scary, oh, that's not me,” maybe think about trying to do that before life takes over and makes you do it on its terms. If you can do it on your terms, you've got some more control and maybe you can do things a little more your way first.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah, yeah, it's difficult, that whole thing, although I think that one of the interesting things that I saw was Eben Pagan and his wife Annie Lalla, they did a video and they explained why they were going to get married and they took that decision, and one of the interesting things they said was getting back to your point about marriage being a social thing. They felt that their relationship would be stronger if there was positive social pressure to maintain it…

[Chase Amante]: Mm-hmm.

[Angel Donovan]: …and they feel that that's really the main value of getting married, is that because your family, everyone around you, they support you and kind of they see you more as a couple, whereas, you know, a lot of people in society, until you actually get married, they don’t really see you as a couple, a real couple. So they felt that just because social influence is always around us, always influencing us, sometimes we don't know it, sometimes we don’t feel it, you know, it depends on our level of awareness and so on, that it was just something that could help their relationship. So I thought that was interesting.

[Chase Amante]: Yeah. Some of the more interesting conversations I've had with guys have been about this, especially about having unconventional relationships.

[Angel Donovan]: Mm-hmm.

[Chase Amante]: The conclusion that I have come to for my own, the girl that I was married with before, with that girl I was very openly not exclusive to her. And the problem with that, she was okay with it in the beginning, but what happens is the more people find out about your relationship, the more they begin to put social pressure on you to conform with what they want.

[Angel Donovan]: Right.

[Chase Amante]: So she would start getting more and more pressure from coworkers and friends, and she would come back and she would tell me about it, and she would say, “These people said this, but they don't know what they're talking about. They're morons and they're idiots.” But what I knew is that starts happening but eventually they will wear you down…

[Angel Donovan]: Right.

[Chase Amante]: …and eventually they’ll make you believe what they want you to believe. If they say it enough times and they push it on you enough times, and effectively you're one person fighting against an army of the entire society, and you can't win like that. I see a lot of guys that are trying to do unconventional relationships, and I think if you're going to do that in a society that doesn’t support that, you can't win over the long-term. You can do it for a little while, but eventually the woman’s going to fold to social pressure and start demanding whatever it is society tells her that she should demand.

The conclusion I've come to is that you can't build a long-term, like a polyamorous harem or anything like that in a Western society or in any kind of society that doesn’t support that lifestyle. Whereas if you look at maybe one of those fundamentalist Mormon sects, Church of Latter-Day Saints, I think there's one in Texas where they have men with four or five wives there because that's society. The women are very happy with this and the women believe that this is what’s right and correct. And probably if you had a woman who said, “I just want one man to myself,” she would get a lot of social pressure saying, “No, you're wrong, you're missing out on sharing the parental duties,” and she would start to feel like she needs to conform.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah.

[Chase Amante]: So there is a lot of… there is a big element of what is society telling you that you need to do, and if you get married in society you're relieved a lot of that pressure.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah. Yeah.

[Chase Amante]: So back to what you're saying about what David DeAngelo and his bride were saying, that does make sense.

[Angel Donovan]: You know, I agree with that overall, like the mainstream is definitely like that. However, what I have seen is that there are small pockets of communities, which also connect to the idea that you're looking… like who you select, right?

[Chase Amante]: Mm-hmm.

[Angel Donovan]: Depending on the type of relationship you want, and potentially, you know, say if you want a polyamorous or say there are like specific definitions, you've got to be careful about the girl you're bringing in and her community, right? Or the community around her, the five people around her and the people working around her. Which also like comes down to like, you know, what kind of a job does your girl have and stuff like that? but if you look at like certain industries and communities, like you have porn stars, obviously their outlook is very, very different when you talk to them. We had Marcus London on here previously and, you know, his whole… the way he described the whole porn star, you know, actresses and actors, how they look at things, is very, very different, right?

[Chase Amante]: Sure.

[Angel Donovan]: And it's mutually supportive because they're in that community, and you know, everyone outside that community looks at them in horror, but inside that community they have a completely different idea of the world and they're happy with that, right? So that's kind of one pocket, and then you have like the swinger communities a lot of people get involved in, some aspects of the BDSM kind of movement, and also even some pockets of feminism, like feminists, I've seen kind of have this more open community and it's kind of reinforcing itself. So overall, yeah, like I totally agree with like the mainstream thing, but there are these small pockets of communities which if you connect within that and if you define your environment as kind of that community that influences you, then it can make a big difference in the type of relationship you have and what the girl’s comfortable with and what can be stable over the long-term.

[Chase Amante]: That's a very good point.

[Angel Donovan]: Okay, so let's move on to [laughs]…

[Chase Amante]: It's a little out there for most guys, probably.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah, outside of mine too, but I think it also gives them an idea of where they may…

[Chase Amante]: I just want a girlfriend kind of thing.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know, but it also gives them an idea where they might want to shoot for long-term and it's not bad to have those kind of influences, I think. Something we may talk about which you mentioned earlier is about clarity and kind of understanding things properly. Sometimes this information isn't directly actionable, but I think it gives you more clarity about where you're going and things like that, and that does help in subtle ways. So how many women have you slept with in your lifetime?

[Chase Amante]: I'm in the low 100s.

[Angel Donovan]: Okay. And how has your dating lifestyle changed? You know, you’ve kind of said where you were right now. Has that changed a lot in the last five years or is it kind of similar?

[Chase Amante]: One of the things that's held me back number-count-wise is that I do tend to get into these rather committed relationships and I'm not one of these guys who has a strong constant need for a lot of sex.

[Angel Donovan]: So today… what I wanted to focus the interview in on is about getting girls chasing you because it's kind of one of the themes of your company and also one of your main books…

[Chase Amante]: Sure.

[Angel Donovan]: So I know there's a lot of material on that. So, first of all, like having girls chase us, now that sounds like a lot of fun, it could be very flattering for our egos, but why is it important if you want to get better with women, if you want to have a better dating life? Why is this important?

[Chase Amante]: It's important to get the balance of power shifted into a chasing perspective, and chasing can have a lot of different shades, if you will. It doesn’t necessarily have to be a girl calling you and hounding you desperately for a date or for sex or something like that, which is I think what some guys may think that I mean by that, which is not necessarily… you probably don’t want that. That's kind of off-putting to most guys, I think, unless the guy’s really needy or desperate or the girl is especially hot.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah.

[Chase Amante]: The kind of chasing that we're talking about is more of the girl making subtle suggestions or saying things to let you know she's interested when you maybe haven't made that implication yet, where she's making subtle movements or making motions, making efforts to advance the interaction forward to the next step.

[Angel Donovan]: Mm-hmm.

[Chase Amante]: And what that does for you is, one, that's getting her to buy in first before you've even done anything, which makes your life a lot easier because she's convincing herself and selling herself on you, and it's also keeping the dynamic in your favor. There's never a dynamic where you're perfectly both exactly on the same page. There's always a little bit more chasing coming from you or a little bit more chasing from her, or there's a lot more coming from one of the partners.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah.

[Chase Amante]: When you have the dynamic that's in your favor, then instead of her sitting back and asking herself, “Hmm, do I like this guy? Do I want this guy?”

[Angel Donovan]: Mm-hmm.

[Chase Amante]: Instead, the thought and emotion that's going through her head is, “Oh, does he like me? Can I get him?” And when you've got that dynamic set up, then you're in control. It's a lot easier to lead things the way that you want them to go so long as you can maintain that dynamic and keep things moving forward at a proper pace that she doesn’t feel like you've suddenly switched and started chasing after her.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah.

[Chase Amante]: It makes things go more smoothly and a lot more likely to go in your way.

[Angel Donovan]: Great, great. That's a great explanation. So would you say this is relevant to every guy out there? So like I'm taking different situations here. There are, like maybe you want to hook up for a one-night stand, maybe you want to get a girlfriend or actually inside the relationship itself. Is it applicable to all of these situations?

[Chase Amante]: Yeah, absolutely. It's applicable in all of them. There are different ways that you would get chasing happening in each of them.

[Angel Donovan]: Mm-hmm.

[Chase Amante]: One of the core components of it is on or other form investment, which I think is probably one of the things that you're going to ask about.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah.

[Chase Amante]: Essentially, you can think of investment as any amount of effort or work that a girl’s doing for you. It can be physical compliance. It can be you asking her for something or her actively doing something for you.

[Angel Donovan]: Mm-hmm.

[Chase Amante]: It can be just emotional work of her thinking about you, worrying about you.

[Angel Donovan]: Mm-hmm.

[Chase Amante]: It can be anything where she's spending time, effort, energy or emotion on you. And the more of that she's doing, the more she's going to feel like she needs you and the more she's going to tend to pursue you and chase you and try and lock you down and make you hers.

[Angel Donovan]: Mm-hmm.

[Chase Amante]: And obviously as you get more advanced there's a balancing act, because if you have this too much then you get girls to get very attached and very clinging to you, which you may not want as you get better with women. When you're starting out it sounds amazing, like, “Wow, if I could make a girl be that crazy about me, that'll be great.”

[Angel Donovan]: Right. Mm-hmm.

[Chase Amante]: But as you get more used to that, then you start at ways, “Okay, how can I get this girl interested enough but not so interested that it's problematic later on.”

[Angel Donovan]: Right, right. And also there's this balancing act of you trying to get this girl to invest in you, trying to get her to chase you with a number of approaches that we can talk about in a minute, and her kind of rejecting that because it's too much. Do you call that attainability or how do you explain that when you kind of push it too far so there's this balancing act between how much you want to encourage her to chase as well?

[Chase Amante]: Yeah, attainability is a funny topic and it's probably the hardest one for guys who are unfamiliar with it to get their heads around, but it is related to value and to investment, and essentially it's if a girl feels like she can get what she wants with you, then you're attainable.

[Angel Donovan]: Mm-hmm.

[Chase Amante]: If it feels like it's a cinch for her to get that, it's really easy, then you're too attainable, you're not challenging enough, and she's going to lose interest. If it's too hard, if it's impossible, she feels like she can't get what she wants with you, then you've got no attainability and she'll do something called auto-reject, which is where she's going to reject you first to preserve her ego because she senses an impending rejection from you.

[Angel Donovan]: Mm-hmm.

[Chase Amante]: That's sort of like the guy who sees a really, really hot girl and he says, “Wow, she's so hot,” and he walks up to her, but before he can even say anything she puts her hand up in his face and he turns around angrily and he says, “This is one of these stupid airheads. I would never want to date a girl like that anyway.”

[Angel Donovan]: Right.

[Chase Amante]: What he's doing, what he's auto-rejecting. He's protecting his ego. He's saying, “I wouldn't be interested in her.”

[Angel Donovan]: Right.

[Chase Amante]: And girls will do that same thing with you if they start feeling like you're too hard to get and they can't get you. I think a lot of guys do this, I've seen it over and over again, a lot of guys who are newer, intermediate, even advanced guys who don’t get this concept, they think a lot of attraction is trying to continually pump their value, and they’ll pump their value so high and they’ll tease women so much that they're putting a lot of girls into auto-rejection, even sometimes really beautiful girls, really high-value girls. And they’ll put these girls into auto-rejection and lose them, and they won't understand that that's what happened. They’ll think that what happened was they weren't high-value enough.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah.

[Chase Amante]: So then they’ll go to the next girl and they’ll try and pump their value up even more, tease the girl even harder, and then that girl with auto-reject even harder, and they’ll look at it and they’ll say, “Well, these girls are really hard.” In fact, all they have to do is be a little bit softer and be a little bit easier with the girl and make themselves more attainable.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah, you know, I totally agree with that, and I mean this is something that actually got me stumped for a while when I was targeting much, much hotter girls. So it was about five years ago I decided to up my standards and, you know, and I was in Montreal at the time in this club. I remember the one situation that broke it for me and I never did this ever again. [Laughs] And we were in the club not for long and I started talking to some girl. I kind of just walked up to her and talked to her. She was immediately into me, but she was a bikini model and she was amazing, she was very open-minded. She was just like kind of everything that I was looking for and that I thought was outstanding for a dream girl kind of thing.

[Chase Amante]: Mm-hmm.

[Angel Donovan]: So I just felt that for my mindset at that point it was not possible that she already was so into me and everything, so I kind of kept playing value and these other things, and it was so unnecessary, and I ended up losing girl and it didn't work out. She was quite independent. She kind of pursued me a bit, but at one point she kind of just gave up, and that was unfortunately one of my big mess-ups. But it taught me a huge lesson in this part. So what kind of signals could we give to guys that they're doing too much attraction value and trying to get girls chase too much? What would be a signal that they’ve gone overboard with this?

[Chase Amante]: If they're getting warmer receptions early on and then they're getting cold receptions after that, that's almost always a sign that they're putting girls into auto-rejection.

[Angel Donovan]: Mm-hmm.

[Chase Amante]: If she starts warmer and gets colder, that means you're doing something very wrong.

[Angel Donovan]: Mm-hmm.

[Chase Amante]: And usually it's a pretty quick fix. One of the biggest pieces of advice that I give to guys is move faster. As soon as you see an opening you've got to push and move things forward. If you study some of the older pickup stuff, a lot of it's about you’ve got to go through this process, it's going to take seven hours, you're going to do this and that and go from this step to that step. My philosophy on meeting women is trying to get as many steps as you possibly can, as many steps as she will let you get away with. Skip those steps and keep things moving forward.

[Angel Donovan]: Okay.

[Chase Amante]: Because one of the things that I noticed earlier on was that I was losing women that were very into me early on and I would think, “Well, no, I've got to build up some more conversation first,” or “I've got to do this first and do that first.”

[Angel Donovan]: Yup.

[Chase Amante]: And this girl who previously had been very warm and very receptive would then get colder and colder, and then disappear, go off with her friends or whatever.

[Angel Donovan]: Mm-hmm.

[Chase Amante]: If you take the approach of as soon as things seem warm, move to the next step, and you have a mental process for what is that next step, what do I do with women next, that will save you a lot of heartache and a lot of wasted time and effort. It also makes you realize that one of the things that you have to do is to continually be pushing with women, especially when you don’t have many data points yet and don’t have much experience to see what you can away with, because you'll often be surprised if you're a beginner or even an intermediate.

A lot of guys think they have to wait a certain amount of time because girls are conservative and they need to be won over and these sorts of things, but most women you can actually move surprisingly fast with. Women will move with you right away after you meet them if they like you. They’ll give you their phone numbers within minutes, and those will be good phone numbers that they’ll go on a date with you later if you play things right. Women will go home with you in 20 or 30 minutes or less after you've met reasonably consistently, if you just ask. But most guys don’t ask because they don't think it's going to happen. And because they never ask, they never find this out. They don’t realize that this is possible or achievable.

[Angel Donovan]: Mm-hmm.

[Chase Amante]: And the other thing that you discover by getting into the habit of pushing those limits and seeing what you can get away with—and a lot of times you'll try things that you think are never going to work, only to be surprised that they do work and you'll say, “Well, she just said she's going out with me but we just met, like I didn't even realize and feel like we're okay. I guess we're going home together”—the other thing that you'll realize is that there's a big difference between the reactions that you get from women and the results that you get from them. Because you'll get some women who are acting very, very flirty with you and they’ll be touching you and laughing at all of your jokes, complimenting you and telling you how hot and wonderful you are, but when you try to get them to go sit down with you or you try to get a phone number or you try to take them home, they play it very coy. A lot of times what that is is a girl’s not actually interested but she's using you for attention because you're an attractive guy and it feels good to her that you like her, but she's just not that interested.

And you'll get other women that don’t give you these signals at all, but when you ask them to come with you they do. When you ask them to give you their phone number, to meet up with you on a date, they do. When you ask them to come home with you, they do.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah.

[Chase Amante]: That's one of the most eye-opening things I think that a newer guy can experience, is this big difference between flirty women and women who will actually go through and do things with you.

[Angel Donovan]: Right. Right,right. And that also comes down a little bit to the kind of girls that attract you, right? If it's kind of more high-energy girls or it's lower-energy girls, you know, and different types you come across and whether you're going in clubs or daytime all has a bit of influence over that as well, you know, the kind of feedback you're going to get. So it's necessarily always this flirty type… as you said, sometimes you can get very little feedback at all and…

[Chase Amante]: Sure.

[Angel Donovan]: I know you're in China right now and I always find there are cultural influences. Right now I'm in South America. People are very open and communicative very easily. Asians tend to be the other way. So we've talked on a podcast before, you know, like you tend to get these signs and signals and more of the just kind of standing there and looking at you, waiting for you to do something kind of responses sometimes. So there are some cultural aspects you see sometimes there too.

[Chase Amante]: Yeah. Most of my game, most of what I talk about is stuff that was originally developed in the United States.

[Angel Donovan]: Yup.

[Chase Amante]: I haven't innovated a huge amount of things since I came to Asia since I pretty much had all the pieces in place already, and kind of just been running off with the stuff that I've found that works.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah, yeah, totally. Yeah, it's not really different. The main thing I've found was just that the communication I was getting would tend to be different unless and… also, sometimes, it's body language and language, language barriers also.

[Chase Amante]: That'll make for new and fun experiences.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Traveling’s great. It's always great for more adventures. Traveling equals more adventures with women. It's great. [Laughs]

[Chase Amante]: [Laughs]

[Angel Donovan]: So what would you say is the most important aspect of getting girls to chase? Is it value? Is it compliance and investment? You brought out some of these terms. What would you say is the thing to focus on first?

[Chase Amante]: I would say that it's what I call fundamentals, which are sort of your passive value. A good way of describing that is when you see a beautiful hot girl in a nightclub or on the street walking around during the daytime or in a bookstore, guys will look at that girl and they’ll say, “Wow, she's just gorgeous.” But what they don’t say is, “How did she become gorgeous?” They just see her… people see you in your finished state as you are right in front of their eyes right now and assume that's how you are and that's how you always were, but usually it's not the case.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah.

[Chase Amante]: If you look at that really hot girl, a lot of what that is usually is that she's done her hair very nice and she has her makeup put on very well. She's probably studied how to do that to make her face look much more attractive than it would be without it. She's got great clothes that really accent her features. She's got a nice body. She's got perfect posture with her back straight and chest out, and she looks very commanding, her facial expressions. All these things contribute to making a girl who might otherwise not get your eye become a girl who catches your eye and makes you lust for her.

[Angel Donovan]: Yup.

[Chase Amante]: And you can do these same things as a man and just as powerful in the effect that they have on women. So it's things like fashion, things like hairstyle, your facial expressions, your facial hair. Facial hair is actually a big component, especially for younger guys who look younger and want to look older and more masculine. It's movement speed. It's gestures. It's your voice, is extremely important.

Voice is one of the things that nobody talks about that much but it has a very powerful impact on attraction. You want to speak more slowly. You want to use more pauses. You want have more resonance in your voice because it gives it more of a grizzlier, sexual, masculine edge that women find appealing on a very visceral level. You can get your voice to the point where you can just stand somewhere behind a woman and start talking on the phone, she hasn’t even seen your face, but if your voice is good enough, beautiful women will turn around just to get a look and see, “What does this man whose voice sounds so good, what does he look like?” because they're curious.

[Angel Donovan]: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I mean, what is one tip with the voice that guys could start kind of focusing on?

[Chase Amante]: The easiest to start with is just start speaking slower and use more pauses in your conversation. As you do this, it gives you more of an authoritative feel to everything that you're saying, and people pay a lot more attention and find you much more powerful and attractive. It's almost mesmerizing if you use it the right way.

[Angel Donovan]: Hypnotic. [Laughs]

[Chase Amante]: Exactly. The main thing with fundamentals that these do, most attraction, a lot of guys talk about creating attraction and building attraction, but from everything I've seen, attraction mostly is either there or it isn't there, and what that's based on is your fundamentals. If you come in with very good fundamentals, attraction more likely than not will be there from the very beginning that allows you to move much more quickly. If your fundamentals are not handled, attraction’s a lot less like they could be there and you're going to have much more of an uphill slog.

It's very hard to try to convince a woman who is not attracted to you at the beginning to become attracted to you. It's kind of possible if you can show enough of your personality, which is a lot of what game is, but you can just start off with a much higher probability of getting your desired result if you take care of those things beforehand and you come in looking the part and being the part, and making that initial impression of being a very strong, powerful, attractive man.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah. So you're talking about that basically fundamentals are things you can work out, you can work on before even going out and approaching women. There's a lot of work to be done, the way you're dressing, the way you're coming across with body language and so on.

[Chase Amante]: Absolutely. And then once you're out, actually meeting women, that helps you to refine these better and faster because you're seeing how women respond to different tweaks and changes that you make.

[Angel Donovan]: Would you say this is 80/20, 20% of your effort into these fundamental things will get you 80% of the results, certainly as you start the whole, you know, walk up to the woman and how it starts out?

[Chase Amante]: Yeah, absolutely. One of the interesting things that I have seen, I don’t do so much personal coaching myself, but I used to do more personal coaching and more seminars from time to time, and every now and then you'll get these guys who are really hard cases, the guys that have been studying pickup for five or more years and they’ve done thousands of approaches, they're no slouches, and they just can't break this barrier and they can't start getting great results despite the sheer huge volumes of time they put into it. And what I see again and again, it's always the same thing with these guys. Their focus is totally on learning game and the right things to say to women, and they don’t seem to understand that, yeah, the things that you say are important, but the person who’s saying those things are much more important because that's what she's paying attention to. And there's a lot you can do with your person, but these guys don’t usually work on that. They pick some peacocking clothes that stand out, and usually that's about the limit of what they work on when there's a lot more that they can do.

[Angel Donovan]: Mm-hmm.

[Chase Amante]: So yeah, certainly that's the 20 that makes the 80.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah, yeah. They’ve kind of lost before they’ve even started, unfortunately. They really put themselves on an uphill climb and they don’t even realize it. And the reason guys don’t work on this stuff is because it, you know, just naturally we think that it's what we're saying, it's what we're doing when we're actually next to the girl that's making a difference, and we don't think about the things before which are less tangible and don’t seem as directly related, but this is all true.

So in terms of getting her to chase then, you kind of mixed the terms of attraction and getting her to chase. Is it the same thing?

[Chase Amante]: It can be, definitely. The more attracted to you she is, the more likely she is to chase, but there's also… there's a big component of how she's reading you, because she's paying just as much attention to you. She's reading everything that you're doing and saying, she's interpreting it, and she's asking herself, “How likely is he to chase me?” So she's very into you but she thinks that you're going to chase after her. She will lean back and wait for that because that'll build her value up.

[Angel Donovan]: Uh-huh.

[Chase Amante]: But if she's very into you but you're kind of relaxed and you're just there talking to her, but you're not putting in a huge amount of effort, she is going to start to worry, “Well, I really like this guy and I feel like it could really go somewhere, but maybe I should give him a little bit more. I should put in a bit more effort so that he knows to go for me. I should make sure that I don’t lose him.” And she'll start putting in a little bit more effort and a little bit more effort and a little bit more effort to make sure that you stick around and stay interested in her. And if you're maintaining the right balance of value and attainability and you're continuing to get investment from her, and you're not chasing her, then she'll do that. You can't completely lean back. You have to give her a little bit or she'll start to auto-reject and feel like you aren't interested.

[Angel Donovan]: Mm-hmm.

[Chase Amante]: But if you're just giving her enough to feel like you're attainable, then she'll begin to pursue because she wants to move things forward.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah, it strikes me, one of the things you mention there is that she starts to worry a little bit, right?

[Chase Amante]: Yeah.

[Angel Donovan]: She's uncertain of your interest and worrying…

[Chase Amante]: Mm-hmm.

[Angel Donovan]: One of the things you say in your book is ruminating, you know, when we ruminate we're thinking about something kind of in a circle. We keep thinking about it, keep thinking about it, keep thinking about it, and that’s a lot of emotional investment. And worrying is basically ruminating, so it's emotional investment so something becomes bigger in your mind and more important. So even before she's doing any outward signs of investment like trying to talk to you more, trying to get your attention more, focusing more on you, there comes that emotional investment, which has actually already taken place beforehand just by this kind of aspect of worrying. Is that kind of like the process the way you see it?

[Chase Amante]: Yeah, absolutely. The mind is where all this is decided. A few of the guys who are beginners, they're the ones that are doing the worrying. They're sitting there with a woman who may be attracted to them, but they're the ones who are chasing. They're pushing to move things forward while she leans back and lets them work, lets them work for her.

All we're doing with this is switching the dynamic. You get them to be the ones who are worrying, the ones who are unsure. They know that you like them, but are you going to move things forward or not? So they want to make sure that you do and they're going to try and help you to do that.

[Angel Donovan]: Right, right. And one of the tools as I understand it that you're using to get investment is compliance, right? It's kind of a way of encouraging, you encourage her to comply with something and you encourage her to get more invested.

[Chase Amante]: That's right.

[Angel Donovan]: Could you give us examples of that?

[Chase Amante]: Sure. Some of the most simple examples of compliance, one would be when you first go up and you meet a girl and you introduce yourself and she introduces herself back, you take her hand and you can just hold it for a moment as you start talking to her.

[Angel Donovan]: Mm-hmm.

[Chase Amante]: And a lot of times if the girl is attracted to you initially, she'll just leave her hand there in your hand, and that's compliance, because she's leaving her hand with a stranger, because she's giving it to you and she's just leaving it there, which is a little bit of initial compliance.

[Angel Donovan]: Right.

[Chase Amante]: There are things like, one of the things that I suggest that guys do is as soon as they can into an interaction, 10 minutes at the latest, but ideally much sooner, is move a girl. If you meet a girl on the street, for instance, you should try and move her within 30 seconds to two minutes, just so that she's locked into talking to you. If you meet her in a bar or club, within 10 minutes, assuming you meet her standing up, you should have her come sit down with you.

What moving with you does is it gets her to consciously commit to the interaction, so she's investing and then she's also saying, “Okay, I'm moving with this guy because I want to continue to talk to him.” If you don’t get that kind of investment, she doesn’t comply with you, even if she liked you and would have done that, she starts to wonder to herself, “Okay, I'm just standing here with this guy. Am I here because I really want to be here or is it because he just kind of found me alone standing here?” Once she gives you enough compliance that she moves somewhere with you, she has already decided for herself. Now when she looks at it she just, “Okay, yeah, I moved with him, so clearly I like him.”

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah.

[Chase Amante]: And she can rationalize that in her mind. And getting these little bits of compliance is very important for getting women to understand that, “Yes, I am interested in him and I am even chasing after him,” which is another thing that compliance does, is it builds this feeling of her being in pursuit because she's doing all these increasing amounts of effort to be with you.

[Angel Donovan]: The moving thing is a very common thing that comes up because it's applicable to all situations. So if you're in a bar, you can say, “Hey,” you know, if she's with her friends, you can say, “Come over to the bar, get a drink,” or like you're on the dance floor, “Hey, come off the dance floor for a second to talk.” One of the things I used to do a lot actually in clubs is, because you get these horrible noisy clubs where you can't have a proper conversation, is just like, “Hey, let's go out into the terrace so we can talk for a bit,” right? So you're getting her to move and things like that.

And like one way to look at this, let me know if this is the way you would look at it too, is like you're basically pushing a boundary. You're holding her hand and you're a stranger, it's an unusual situation. It's unusually advanced for the situation. So you're pushing a boundary, like normally she wouldn't do that with someone at that stage. Could you like… another way to think of like if I'm going to get more compliance, I want to push her boundary a little bit, so when I like push things a little bit faster then would be typical?

[Chase Amante]: Sure, that's one way of thinking of it. The way that I think of it that might be even a little bit simpler is I think of it as a test. It's a test to see, how interested in me is she?

[Angel Donovan]: Yup.

[Chase Amante]: Because if she's not going to move with you, you know, when I started consciously working to move girls I paid a lot of attention to this, if she won't move with you, what are your odds of actually having something happen with her? Now, what I found is if she won't move with you when you ask her to move, the chance that that ever goes anywhere is almost zero. So she won't move with you right away, you know, it's going nowhere and you can just bail and stop wasting your time with her.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah.

[Chase Amante]: And if she will move with you, then there's a very good chance that, yeah, it's going somewhere. She likes you enough that she's going to commit to furthering this interaction. Now, it's a joint thing. It's a mutual thing. Both of you are working to move this to the next step.

[Angel Donovan]: Right. And you have to also think about how much of a leap it is, you know, how much you're asking of her. So, you know, we just had some kind of small movements there.

[Chase Amante]: Uh-huh.

[Angel Donovan]: Would you encourage guys to take like bigger bets? So I’ll give you like a couple of examples that may come up, right? So if you're traveling a lot and you're in an airport, like sometimes you see a good-looking girl when you're waiting for your flight, right? She's waiting in the same area as you. And you're like, “Yeah, it would be cool if I could sit next to that girl and get to know her on the flight,” right? But of course you don’t have the seats next to each other.

So one of the things that I know I used to do and a bunch of the guys started doing is like we’d stop start talking to the girl, and then when we got on the plane we’d ask them to move to our seat and get someone else to move, right? Which is, if you think about it, like you're talking to a girl for 10 minutes and then you're getting here to move around on the plane and ask other people to move, so it's kind of a big thing compared to some of the small things you could get to do.

[Chase Amante]: Mm-hmm.

[Angel Donovan]: So it's a bigger bet, and which has some nice things about it. It's more of an adventure and more exciting for her in some of those kind of contexts. Another example would be like in a metro station when you're in a train, right? And it's a bit more difficult on trains because it's like people don’t talk much, but you know, one of the things is like if you're going to somewhere and there's a girl, you start talking to her and you like her, but you're getting off, you have to go somewhere, you can ask her to come off, it's not her stop, you say, “Hey, come off and just talk for five minutes.” Or, if she's just about to get on her train, you say, “Hey, wait, five minutes.” These are kind of more things because you're taking her out, you know, you're asking her to do something against where she was going as well. So you're asking her for more compliance.

Now, what would you say about asking for bigger things like compliance? Like sometimes the logistics demands that you kind of have to ask for bigger compliance earlier on, but in situations where you don’t have to ask that, is it going to benefit you? Because if they do go for it, they are investing a lot more in you and you're getting a much bigger test signal as you put it?

[Chase Amante]: Mm-hmm. I think asking for bigger compliance is something that you need to play around with because that's the only way that you see what you can actually do and pull off. When it's really big compliance, especially when it's really big compliance that you're not used to asking for, it's going to be a bit of a gamble. And when it's something you're not used to asking for, when you get it, a lot of times you're going to mess up after you get it because you're like, “Wow, I can't believe she said yes. I was expecting a no. What do I do now?”

So there's a certainly learning curve to asking for big compliance early on, and what happens is the more big compliance you ask for, the less big it seems to you and the more it becomes a normal, natural thing. And you know, when you start to know the right time to ask for it and when it's likely to work and when it isn't, and then you can move on to bigger forms of compliance.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah. So it sounds like the right learning curve would kind of be to start off with small things, but then keep pushing to see how much compliance you can get to understand it's real limitations and use it better.

[Chase Amante]: Yeah. If you're a newer guy, you want to start with smaller stuff like, “Oh, let me have a sip of what you're drinking,” “Let me see that bracelet you have on,” “Oh, what’s the story behind this?” or little things.

Deep diving, which is a conversational technique that I teach, is actually very compliance-heavy just in terms of getting her to do a lot of the talking and the thinking. That's an easy one for getting used to getting some relatively substantial compliance without putting your neck out there quite as much. But lots of these smaller forms of compliance you can get earlier on are very important for guys that are newer because they're not used to asking for anything from women or used to either just not talking to women at all or being more of the servants of women who do what women ask, not so much asking or imposing themselves.

[Angel Donovan]: Mm-hmm. With the deep dive subject, you're obviously talking about conversation there.

[Chase Amante]: Mm-hmm.

[Angel Donovan]: It sounds like basically you're asking her to do a lot more of the talking, so you might be baiting her in conversation to talk and you're not actually giving much back in return for it. Is that the case?

[Chase Amante]: Yeah.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah.

[Chase Amante]: Yeah. It comes from a couple of things that I picked up along the way. One was, when I was newer, I was noticing that with a lot of women I would talk to, especially younger women, so when I first started traveling and I had a really cool job and I had a lot of cool things going on, I started telling all these things to women, thinking, “Wow, this is going to make me really cool and really attractive,” that I had so many awesome things going on for me.

[Angel Donovan]: Mm-hmm.

[Chase Amante]: And what was happening was that as I would tell these things to women they would start going cold. That's attainability. And at the time I was like, “What’s going on? Like I'm showing them how I've got all this value…” So I said, “Let me try this. Instead of telling them all these amazing things, I'm going to try something totally crazy and I'm going to try and tell women as little about me as possible and let's see what happens.” And the very next girl that I did this with was a fashion model that I'd met randomly on the subway one night.

[Angel Donovan]: Yup.

[Chase Amante]: She didn't even remember meeting me and she was skeptical about meeting up with me. But I met up with her and I just sat with her and we talked for 40 minutes. I didn't tell her anything about me and she just talked about herself the whole time. And then I said, “Hey, let's go to this comedy show,” she said, “Okay,” and we went and we watched the comedy show. And we came out and we talked some more, it was mostly her talking about herself. I said, “Hey, let's go back and have some drinks,” and she said, “Okay.” And then we went back to my place and we had sex.

And I was like, “This is interesting. I didn't tell her anything about myself, she knows nothing about me, and here is this girl that was skeptical about me and she's really beautiful and from what she tells me is pretty conservative in her dating history, she had just moved to a new city, which might have been why she's a little bit more liberal than she might have been otherwise, but otherwise, I mean, I'm some guy that she knows nothing about and we just slept together.” And I started doing that a bit more.

And then I read something—I like reading, research, especially sociology and psychology and neuroscience research, because there are all these little interesting things in these studies that you might not have thought of before—and one of the things I read was they found that when people have a conversation, how connected you feel to someone else has nothing to do with how much you know about them and everything to do with how much you feel like they know you. So if you and I are talking and I tell you all these wonderful things about myself and you tell me nothing about yourself, I'm still going to come away from that saying, “Wow, Angel and I had this great connection and we really get on really well, we really bonded,” even though I don't know anything about you.

I also had a girlfriend at the time who was really doing this with people, and I watched what she did. I started doing it myself.

[Angel Donovan]: Mm-hmm.

[Chase Amante]: And so I put together what I call deep diving now, which is all about getting to know a woman very quickly without telling her very much about yourself. I also saw some research recently that found that by asking the right questions you can get to know someone better, form a stronger, more intimate bond with them in one hour of talking than they have with most of the closest friends and family members they have in their lives.

[Angel Donovan]: Mm-hmm.

[Chase Amante]: You can know them more deeply than most of these people, which is crazy when you think about it. You could have someone that you've known for 20 or 30 or 40 years, and if you know how to connect and ask the right questions, you can meet that person and get to know them more deeply than these people that have known them for decades.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah, this is really powerful. So just to clarify…

[Chase Amante]: Mm-hmm.

[Angel Donovan]: …basically you are asking them questions that are more intimate…

[Chase Amante]: Yeah.

[Angel Donovan]: …so they're revealing more intimate details of their life, and because they do that to you, they feel like they know you much better than someone they haven't done that with.

[Chase Amante]: Yeah, they feel like the connection is much better. They’ll still be aware that they don't know you that well, but they’ll feel like they know…

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah.

[Chase Amante]: They won't know the facts about you but they’ll know you. They’ll know you as a person, which kind of sort of is accurate. You can kind of tell some things about a person from the sort of things that they ask about you and how they talk to you and how they relate to you.

[Angel Donovan]: Mm-hmm.

[Chase Amante]: And sometimes in some ways these things are more important than just the flat facts about a person, but yeah, they’ll start to feel very connected to you, like the two of you relate very well around the same page, because you'll be relating to them about all these things that are important, critical to them and, yeah, maybe even things that they haven't told to anyone else or even really thought about before.

[Angel Donovan]: Right. Right. And that in itself, again, is investment. They are giving you things that they don’t normally give to other people. So kind of connecting back, it's not something that they normally do, so the fact that they give you this information is also an investment. It's kind of like relative, right? If they're giving you more than they're giving other people, then they're more invested in you.

[Chase Amante]: Yeah. Deep diving, I didn't start realizing it until I already had the system in place, but it actually serves a lot of purposes that traditional pickup was designed to serve and it makes it a lot easier, it means they give back in this investment.

The other thing it does is it's very hard screening. The example I like to use is a very simple topic of “what do you do?” What most guys will do is they’ll ask about a topic, but then they’ll just move on and they won't dive into it very deeply.

[Angel Donovan]: Mm-hmm.

[Chase Amante]: So a guy would say, “Oh, what do you do?” and she'll say, “Oh, you know, I'm a paralegal.” And she'll say, “What do you do?” and he'll say, “I work at a vet’s office downtown while I'm still in school.” And then he'll say, “Where are you from?” and she'll say, “Oh, I'm from here. I grew up here. Where are you from?” And he'll say, “Oh, I'm from the suburbs but I moved here. I want to go to university.”

[Angel Donovan]: Mm-hmm.

[Chase Amante]: And they’ve just moved on from the whole job topic without going into motivations or any of that stuff.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah.

[Chase Amante]: So I’ll say, “What do you do?” She’ll say, “I'm a paralegal.” I’ll say, “Oh, that's interesting. How do you like it?” and she'll say, “Oh, you know, it's okay. It pays the bills, I guess.” And I’ll say, “Oh, if it's just okay, how long have you been doing it for?” and she'll say, “I've been doing it for six years.” I’ll say, “Well, if it's just okay, how come you've been doing it for six years? Why aren't you doing something more interesting, that you find more exciting?” And that right there is actually a screen because now you're making her think, “Oh, wait a minute, I just told him that I'm putting my lifeblood into something that I'm not really all that crazy about.” So now she's going to answer your screen of… the implication is, “Why are you this dispassionate person who’s not chasing down her dreams?”

[Angel Donovan]: Mm-hmm.

[Chase Amante]: So then she's going to explain to you her background and how she got into that, and she'll say, “Well, you know, I really wanted to be riding horses for a living and doing equestrian competitions, but my father was really insistent that I get something in law because he was a lawyer and the family tradition has been to be in legal practice, so I became a paralegal.” And you'll say, “No way, that's crazy. So you really wanted to be riding horses but you're a paralegal. Do you have any plans to ride horses or are you going to ride horses at some point once you save up enough money for adventures or what’s happening with what you really want to do?”

[Angel Donovan]: So you're digging deeper. That's why you call it deep diving.

[Chase Amante]: Yeah.

[Angel Donovan]: What you're really doing is trying to find out why. You're kind of like, “Why?” and you're posing more questions to actually understand the why behind it.

[Chase Amante]: Yeah, like the 3-year-old kid who’s realizing that the emperor has no clothes and you're going to ask these questions. All these people are living their lives and running their routines, they're kind of like robots that, you know, they don’t want to be, but somewhere along the lines they got off-track from what they really wanted to do with their life.

[Angel Donovan]: Yup.

[Chase Amante]: And the kid is going to point that out and say, “Hey, you're not doing what you really want to be doing. Why is that?”

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah.

[Chase Amante]: And they're going to say, “Oh, it's a good question. Um, well, here's the path that I follow.” And then at the end of that you'll encourage them and you'll say, “Well, I think you can do it if you want to. It certainly is a possibility,” and then you've bonded over this.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah.

[Chase Amante]: You've seen something about them that no one else has seen and you realize what they're not doing and what they really want to be doing, but you believe that they can do it, which is kind of a nice thing.

[Angel Donovan]: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

[Chase Amante]: And you should actually believe that people have the potential to do anything they want to do, which I do, and I think if you believe that you can communicate that very easily.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah, yeah. Well, you know, this is all great stuff, and I know this whole compliance and investment subject is a lot bigger and we've only really kind of touched the surface a little bit on it, but I hope our users got a clear idea of what it's about, what it can do, and some of the practical examples of that. To finish of our conversation today, what I’d like to do is we always do this because it's a great way to finish off, we ask everyone, “What are your top three recommendations like to get a guy started out from zero who wants to get better with women as fast as possible? What are the top three things you would recommend that he does?”

[Chase Amante]: Top three recommendations are… one is work on your fundamentals first and foremost, that is, everything from fashion, hairstyle, facial hair, facial expressions, posture, voice. Study movie stars. Study actors that you know that women say are really sexy and look at those guys and say, “How can I be like that guy?” Especially study movie stars and actors who really appeal to you personally and who you feel like they're closer to the style that you are, that you'd like to be. Try and channel yourself that way. And for clothes, for hairstyle, find people whose opinions you respect. Not a girlfriend, because girlfriends will subconsciously try to make you less sexy, but a girl who’s not feeling you as a committed partner, and get their opinions on what looks sexier.

A second thing would be setting goals. This one’s really important. This one will keep you motivated and it will give you something concrete to target. A lot of guys, especially when they're new, will go out and will get stricken with approach anxiety and will say, “I can't do it.” Because what they're thinking about in their head is, “Oh my God, I'm going to talk to this girl. It's going to go great, and I've got to get a phone number and a date,” and if it doesn’t go great then it's horrible.

[Angel Donovan]: Mm-hmm.

[Chase Amante]: If you have a little piece of paper and on it you've written down two or three goals for the outing for the day or for the night, then when you're going out, instead of worrying so much about approach anxiety, you'll still have some of that, but a lot of your mindset is actually going to go to thinking, “Okay, tonight I've got to go talk to six girls tonight before I can go home. I'm not allowed to go home until I've done that,” or “Today, I have to ask two girls for their phone number. They don’t have to say yes but I have to ask no matter what I do, and otherwise I just have to keep walking around until I do it.” If you have that on the paper it releases a lot of the approach anxiety and it gets you targeting or working on things that you need to work on. And then later you're going to go home and you're going to say, “Okay, I've got this handled. Now let's set out the next thing for me to work on.” And by doing that methodically you're able to improve all your weak areas and get faster a lot better.

And then the third one is just set a routine for yourself to go out because when you're newer and you're not getting consistent results with women, it can feel a lot like work to go out because it's not as enjoyable. It becomes more enjoyable when you start getting results, and then it becomes something that you want to do. But until you reach that point, you have to push yourself to go out.

And the best way to do this is to offload the thinking and the planning so that you don’t have to do that every time. If you say, “Okay, on Saturday I'm going to go out to XYZ Street go talk to girls,” so Saturday you're going to wake up and you're going to say, “You know, I'm kind of tired today. Why don’t I just have a late lunch and I’ll do that later?” And then you have your lunch, and then you're feeling kind of full and you're like, “You know what? Let me watch this movie or call my buddy or play some video games and I'll go out a little bit later,” and then the whole day goes by.

Whereas, if on Thursday you're sitting there and scoring it off and you say, “Okay, Saturday at 12:30 in the afternoon, I'm going to leave my house and I'm going to go to this street, and I'm going to walk around until I approach six girls,” and you mark than on your calendar, you're a lot more likely to do that because you're going to wake up on Saturday and say, “Oh, I don’t want to go out,” you're going to say, “Well, at 12:30 I have to leave, so I guess I better get ready.”

[Angel Donovan]: Hmm.

[Chase Amante]: So my three recommendations are focus on your fundamentals. They're going to make everything easier for you, they're going to make you get better quicker, and it's going to be a lot more encouraging for you because you're going to get a lot more positive receptive signs from women, which is going to make you want to work more both on your fundamentals and on your general game.

Second one is set some goals for yourself. That's going to force you to analyze where your weak points are and target those, and it's also going to get you out of your head quite so much and focusing on what you've got to accomplish instead of being afraid of approaching. And the third one is build going out into a routine so that it's not you trying to push yourself out of the house against your own willpower. It's already set. You don’t have to think about it or decide you just have to go do what you already decide to do in the past. Now those would be my top three.

[Angel Donovan]: Chase, thanks for those. I would say that those are probably the most comprehensive three recommendations we've ever had, so excellent there.

[Chase Amante]: You're welcome.

[Angel Donovan]: And thanks for making the time today. It's been great to have this conversation with you and cover this topic in quite a bit of depth, so thank you for coming on today.

[Chase Amante]: Oh, thanks for having me, Angel.