Python Humor

Here is a spurious collection of semi to totally unserious stuff, mostly postings found wafting gently in the comp.lang.python newsgroup (a.k.a. the python-list mailing list).

See also Andrew Kuchling's collection of Python quotations, containing in a condensed form some sterling examples of the wit and wisdom encountered in the Python world.

The Zen of Python Beautiful is better than ugly. Explicit is better than implicit. Simple is better than complex. Complex is better than complicated. Flat is better than nested. Sparse is better than dense. Readability counts. Special cases aren't special enough to break the rules. Although practicality beats purity. Errors should never pass silently. Unless explicitly silenced. In the face of ambiguity, refuse the temptation to guess. There should be one-- and preferably only one --obvious way to do it. Although that way may not be obvious at first unless you're Dutch. Now is better than never. Although never is often better than right now. If the implementation is hard to explain, it's a bad idea. If the implementation is easy to explain, it may be a good idea. Namespaces are one honking great idea -- let's do more of those! —Tim Peters (This classic is also available in the Python interactive interpreter, just import this !)

Fundamental... Subject: Re: Book review review From: "Chyden.Net" <@chyden.net> Date: Fri, 17 Apr 1998 12:53:48 +0100 Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Mark Lutz wrote: > Naturally, not everyone has the same sense of humor. Dear, gentle, Mr. Lutz: Not everyone has *ANY* sense of humor. I -- an economist-turned-businessman who never got "Hello World" to work right in C++ -- have enjoyed reading _Programming Python_. I find computer science as god-awful as you probably find economics. Applied computer science [programming] is fun, and applied economics [making money] is fun. The textbooks that teach both subjects are mind-numblingly dreadful. Anyone who finds _Programming Python_ "too cute" needs to have holes drilled in his head to let the evil spirits out. > The only objective thing worth interjecting is that Python is > named after a BBC comedy series; humor is a fundamental part of > its culture (and, I think, life in general, but I'm not in a > deep enough mood to go there today ;-). Right. What was van Rossum supposed to do? Call it Hitler? > Mark ("Pull my finger") L. Charles "I'm not touching that nasty thing" Evans CKO, Chyden.Net The World's First BeOS ISP

Cute Wabbit A little girl goes into a pet show and asks for a wabbit. The shop keeper looks down at her, smiles and says: "Would you like a lovely fluffy little white rabbit, or a cutesy wootesly little brown rabbit?" "Actually", says the little girl, "I don't think my python would notice." —Nick Leaton, Wed, 04 Dec 1996

Legal Issues [Reuters] There are unconfirmed reports that MicroSoft Inc. is considering bringing an intellectual property infringement action against the inventer of the Python programming language claiming that the language documentation infringes on MicroSoft's rights to the Monty Python Flying Circus. Steve Ballmer, Microsoft Executive Vice President, is reported to have said "This is very serious -- we paid almost a quarter billion for those rights; this is almost up there with the Mona Lisa thing." Microsoft reportedly is willing to stop the action if either a licensing agreement can be worked out or if Guido Van Rossum, the inventer, changes the name of the computer language and personally destroys all references to Spam, the Spanish Inquisition, and so forth, in all copies of the Python code and documentation whereever they may have propagated. A highly placed White House Official claims that President Clinton takes the matter very seriously and is willing to break off all diplomatic relations with the government of Japan over the issue. "We're beginning to wonder if this information super-highway thing is such a good idea after all," she said. The ambassador of Japan in Washington is reportedly "very, very confused." A highly placed Speaker of the House, who asked not to be named, is reported to have said, "I thought Guido was an Italian name. Those damn Japanese are sure crafty!" In an unrelated development, Stacker Inc. is reportedly considering bringing action against Van Rossum, Brian Kernigan, and Don Knuth over their alleged infringement on Stacker's "for loop" patent. —Aaron Watters, Thu, 30 Mar 1995

Python vs Tcl vs Perl5 Subject: Re: Python vs Tcl vs Perl5 From: Andrew Dalke <@ks.uiuc.edu> Date: 24 Feb 1997 15:38:48 GMT Ali Shah <@texcel.no> asked: > if anyone out there has done some sort of evaluation about the > suitability of [Python, Tcl or Perl5] for different applications? Granted, the following has little to do with your questions... :) Tcl -- It is short (only three letters) and does a suprising amount given that it doesn't have a vowel. It can be pronounced "Tickle", which is a command. Perl -- Bigger and has a vowel. However you'll note that it isn't a common english word; you'll have to know what you're doing to use it, especially with spell-checkers which otherwise complain that it looks like noise. Python -- This is a Real English Word (honest, look it up!) that happens to refer to a type of snake, which you'll notice is an object. With the two vowels, python is quite readable.

Python Object Oriented Programming Seminar Subject: Re: Fall Python Workshop & OOPSLA? From: Joseph Strout <@ucsd.edu> Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 09:24:41 -0800 On Tue, 25 Feb 1997, Jeffrey Kunce wrote: > At last Fall's workshop, there was talk of combining the 1997 > Fall Python Workshop with OOPSLA in some way. > > Have there been any developments? I suggested holding a "Python Object Oriented Programming Seminar", but the acronym was unpopular.

PSA Budget Subject: Where is the PSA $$$ Going? From: Matthew Lewis Carroll Smith <@mem.net> X-Newsgroups: comp.lang.python Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 11:25:02 -0500 Those of you who are PSA members may have seen this message from Guido: > I don't think it would be wise to publish a detailed budget (and > it would be impossible as well). However, I can tell you > roughly where the money goes -- there are no secrets. In an effort to take some of the burdens off of Guido's back, I have compiled a summary budget of the PSA for your edification. PSA 1996 Budget --------------- Income: 'Guido for President' Campaign Contributions (1)...$ 1,093,276.54 Milk Money Extortion Program.......................$ 3.12 PSA Memberships....................................$ 2,934.07 ------------- Total Income: $ 1,096,213.73 Expenses: Monty Python Licencing Fees (2)....................$ 652,362.55 Pre-Release 2 Week Vacations (3)...................$ 10,876.45 Post-Release 2 Week Vacations (3)..................$ 369,841.59 Alien Abduction Insurance..........................$ 15.01 Python Web Site Maintenance........................$ 62,541.72 Great Comfort Cream................................$ 554.65 ------------- Total Expenses: $ 1,096,191.97 Total Profit (Loss): $(21.76) Notes: (1) Many of you many not be aware of the fabulously successful 'Guido for President' Campaign. While Guido has no interest in being the president, the PSA thought it would be a cool way to collect money. The centerpiece of the campaign featured an attractive offer to spend the night in Guido's spare bedroom in exchange for a $50,000.00 contribution. (Mark Lutz stayed TWICE!) (2) Since the proliferation of Monty Python related names (Python, Monty, Grail, Eric-the-Half-a-Compiler, et al.) has increased over the past year, the PSA felt it would be wise to licencing the Python name to forestall any lawsuits. An added benefit is that John Cleese is teaching Guido how to walk funny. (3) Pre-Release vacations are spent in the Catskills. Post-Release vacations are spent in the Bahamas. Guido is currently working on a system which will allow him to make more releases of Python; thus octupling the number of vacations he takes in a year. Well, folks, as you can see, Guido is taking money out of his own pocket to make the PSA work! So stop whining!

The Origin of the Great Timbot Conspiracy Theory Subject: RE: Python bytecode Date: Wed, 30 Apr 97 04:29:43 UT From: Tim Peters <@msn.com> Cc: python-list@cwi.nl > [steve "lost highway" majewski inflames ...] > ... > What's changed in the last year has been my estimate of some > of the secondary gains due to what I think is the reasonable (but > arguable) belief that Java: > (1) will largely replace C++ [& C] as an application programming > language. > (2) will provide a higher level of portability than is now common > with C + standard posix libraries. *If* I were an AI program, I would both dispute and embrace both sides of both claims until we all got so lost in the maze of nested invocations that the poor chicken couldn't even *see* the other side of the road. Short-circuiting all that, to #1 I say we can hope; to #2, not if Microsoft can stop it <0.3 wink>. > I don't think I'm overestimating you, Aaron. It would be hard to overestimate Aaron! I've tried, & haven't succeeded yet. > You're too opinionated to be NEVER wrong, but you've never > been absurdly wrong before, which Jeez, Steve, you just can't stop provoking tchrist, can you <wink>? > is why I assumed there must be a communication problem. Na, it's all e-mail artifacts. Trust me. If we were all in the same bar, we would have punched each other out by now & reached harmonic convergence despite that. The older I get, the more I hate everything ... > BTW: I know Guido is never wrong, but that's a matter of > theology -- like the way the Pope is never wrong. Even worse than that -- I think the Pope has to be sitting in a magic chair (or something) to be infallible. Guido just *is*. > And I know I've been wrong, because Guido and Tim have told > me so. Wrong again, Steve: we've never said that. QED. > But has anyone ever seen Tim be wrong ? Nobody living, except Guido, and I wouldn't count on him living *much* longer if he catches me in another misteake. > ...You don't think that maybe during his absence from the list, > he cobbled up an AI simulation of himself in his basement on a > couple of KSR's he swiped when they stiffed him on his severance > pay ? Hmmm. And, isn't there something mechanical and formulaic > about his patterned signoff lines -- I mean compared to us > normal humans who repeatedly use the same exact sigs in message > after message. I think he/it's been dropping us a hint all > along with the "tim_one" address!! Ya, ya, ya, except ... if I were built out of KSR chips, I'd be running at 25 or 50 MHz, and would be wrong about ALMOST EVERYTHING almost ALL THE TIME just due to being a computer! Think about it -- when's the last time you spent 20 hours straight debugging your son/wife/friend/neighbor/dog/ferret/snake? And they *still* fell over anyway? Except in a direction you've never seen before each time you try it? The easiest way to tell you're dealing with a computer is when the other side keeps making the same moronic misteakes over and misteakes over and misteakes over and misteakes over and misteakes over and misteakes CTRL-C again. > Hey Tim: How many chickens does it take to cross the road? No number of Java chickens, because it isn't safe to cross the road. but-it-only-takes-one-python-chicken-to-*build*-a-damn-road-ly y'rs - tim

The Other Origin of the Great Timbot Conspiracy Theory Subject: The Truth about Tim From: Barry A. Warsaw Date: 22 Mar 1998 23:28:48 -0500 X-Oblique-Strategy: Everything leaks. (given by Ken Manheimer) >>>>> "TP" == Tim Peters <@email.msn.com> writes: TP> I don't know, Barry -- is it time to let the cat out of TP> the bag about how easy the C++ and Perl modes were? *PERL* mode? Don't you know the reason I dropped Perl for Python in the first place? Ah well, read on... Actually "Tim", it is finally time to come clean with the *real* truth behind "you". Folks, the net.personality you know as "Tim Peters" is really a port of the old Richard Stallman AI program written in Emacs Lisp, which ran on Emacs 17.45. A few years ago, the FSF asked me to port this program to another free (oops, open source) language of my choice, because stallman.el wasn't compatible with the new fangled Emacs 18 that was being worked on, and nobody understood how the old code worked anyway. So I chose Python because of its cool name and the fact that font-lock actually worked for Python syntax, and I wrote a Python C extension that allowed me to embed Emacs in Python, and to seamlessly call Elisp programs from Python. This was actually cleaner than JPython is now (sorry Jim), except for one little problem. I was under the misguided idea that Python used brace delimiters and I was hoping to just substitute parentheses for braces. My having to write the translator between lisp braces and mixed tabs and spaces indentation was why "Tim Peters" was off the net for so long a few years back (okay, so it took me a looong time to get through the Python tutorial!). Anyway I finished this work, wrote a small wrapper script called tim.py and since the GNU machines never had passwords on their logins, I was able to set up a cron job that scanned mailing lists and newsgroups, and posted "responses" to interesting messages. Sadly, all the GNU machines got moved recently, they put passwords on their accounts, and I was only able to rescue the tim.py script, which I include below. I've asked the FSF for the source code to my system, called the Python-Emacs Extension for Enabling Workable Elisp (called PEE EWE) which included the stallman.py and witty.py modules, but all I got back was a MIME encoded email written in Japanese, for which the only words I could make out were "proprietary" and "waiting for copyright assignment". Sigh. Anyway, it appears that there's at least one friendly person at the FSF, because every time the "Tim Peters" becomes quiet for a little while, someone always seems to reboot it... There. I feel so much better now. -Barry TP> Ya, and if anoyone actually saw that msg, they'd also know TP> why I make sure to cash your checks before the ink is dry! TP> Cheapskate. P.S. You better watch it "Tim", or I'll have you-know-who over there hit C-c and remove the pickle of your state. Don't push me, man... I'll DO IT! P.P.S. So how many of you have ever actually met "Tim Peters"? I know Guido claims to have, but I've seen no proof. And I ran a DNA scan on that mustache hair that was mysteriously sent to me from someone claiming to be "Tim", and all the report said was "not of human origin".

For What? Date: Fri, 21 Nov 97 22:40:35 cst From: Jeff Rush To: @python.org Subject: [PSA MEMBERS] Erotic Programming in Python ??? While perusing the Python sources I came across this tidbit; either a mispelling of 'esoteric' or some very interesting programming practices... <grin> Guido? ----- cut here ----- /* API to access the initialized flag -- useful for eroteric use */ int Py_IsInitialized() { return initialized; } ----- cut here -----

Tasty Slices Subject: Re: pass copy of list to function From: "Gordon McMillan" <@hypernet.com> To: Timo Schmitt <@mailhost.uni-koblenz.de>, python-list@cwi.nl Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 09:13:59 -0500 Timo asked: > how do i pass a copy of a list of a function? Use the Paranoia emoticon. list = ['blah', 'blah'] f(list[:]) This passes the "here's my desert, where's everyone elses?" slice.

Python Block Delimited Notation Parsing Explained Subject: Addition explanation of indentation for the tutorial From: Michael McLay <@nist.gov> Date: Mon, 9 Mar 1998 16:42:19 -0500 Message-Id: <199803092142.QAA04377@fermi.eeel.nist.gov> To: python-list@cwi.nl Fredrik Lundh writes: > In fact, Python already supports block delimiters: > > if foo: #{ > foo1(); > foo2(); > foo3(); > #} > > Inspired by Larry Wall, Guido also made sure that the ending > delimiter could be written in various other ways, such as #end > if. Anything to empower the newbies, you know. But real > Python programmers tend to omit both semicolons and curly > braces, of course. This undocumented feature of the language should be explained in the official distribution of documentation!! How about adding the following as an Appendix of the Python Tutorial. Also add a footnote the explanation of indentation at the end of Chapter 3. Appendix XXX Python Block Delimited Notation Parsing Explained Python incorporates a sophisticated parser and advanced notation for recognizing block delimiters from almost any computer language. The foreign language notations of C, Ada Pascal, TCL, and Perl will work in most situations. The Python parser only requires two minor modifications to the block notation rules of the foreign language's grammar rules in order to be Python compliant. The first change is the addition of a rule which states that indentation of code is not simply a stylistic suggestion like it is in other languages. It is mandatory in Python. The use of indentation is considered good coding practice in all these languages and Python takes this a step further by making it required by the language grammar. In Python the meaning of a code block which is not properly indent is not defined. Experienced Python programmers find this rule to be very helpful in making everyone's code more readable. An added benefit is that language sensitive editors, such as Xemacs, can assist in writing code since they are able to automate the indentation of code blocks. The second change to to the grammar rules of foreign languages is that all symbols used to indicate the beginning or end of a block must be prefixed with the '#' character. If you are a former Pascal or Ada programmer this will change your usual notation to: if x: #BEGIN x = x + 1 #END If you are more familiar with C and C++ then you will be comfortable with either: if x: #{ x = x + 1 #} or: if x: x = x + 1 or even: if x: x = x + 1 C programmers will be happy to hear that the Python parser will do the right thing even if curly braces are not included when two trailing statements are present: if x: x = x + 1 y = 3 + x This last feature will fix a common source of bugs in C, C++, and Java programs. Python's parser is also sophisticated enough to recognize mixed notations, and it will even catch missing beginning or end delimiters and correct the program for the user. This allows the following to be recognized as legal Python: if x: #BEGIN x = x + 1 #} or even: if x: #{ x = x + 1 Now as you can see from this series of examples, Python has advanced the state of the art of parser technology and code recognition capabilities well beyond that of the legacy languages. It has done this in a manner which carefully balances good coding style with the need for older programmers to feel comfortable with look of the language syntax. </pre>

Bad Habits Subject: Re: Why We Chose Perl (and What You Can Do About It) From: @mchip00.med.nyu.edu (Roy Smith) Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 16:11:21 -0500 X-Copyright: Copyright 1997 Roy Smith Paul F Dubois <@home.com> wrote: > Stereotyping Fortran programmers as somehow less likely than anyone > else to learn something new is unlikely to produce any insight. C YES I AGREE. I STARTED OUT PROGRAMMING IN FORTRAN ON A TOPS-10 S 000100 C YSTEM AND OTHER SIMILAR MACHINES. ALTHOUGH, I MUST ADMIT, I STIL 000200 C L HAVE SOME BAD HABITS I PICKED UP FROM THOSE OLD DAYS, BY AND LA 000300 C RGE I BELIEVE I HAVE OVERCOME MOST OF THE WORST ONES. 000400

Nolo Contendre Subject: Re: Does Python meet the definitions of an OO Programming Language? From: Tim Peters <@email.msn.com> Date: Sun, 29 Mar 1998 18:19:54 -0500 [jeff <nospam@myhost.com>] > Is it not true that a programming language must > enforce "data hiding" or encapsulation to be > considered a true Object Oriented programming > language? Absolutely! Guido (van Rossum, Python's creator) probably doesn't even know how to spell those phrases, though. > (It is true incase you thought not). Who could deny it? > So how does Python implement encapsulation? From > what I have seen it does not, and therefore may contain > many OO concepts, but cannot be considered a > true OO programming language. Indeed, and because it doesn't support closures, it's not a true functional programming language either. And because you have to import all sorts of modules to do the simplest things (e.g., regular expressions), neither is it a true scripting language. Indeed, because it doesn't support labeled break or continue statements, it's not even a true structured programming language. > Tell me I'm wrong. No way! You should forget Python and move on to something else. In fact, it would be a waste of your time even to reply to any of the silly flames you'll probably get back in response to your message -- these people are, like, hypnotized or something. takes-one-to-know-one-ly y'rs - tim

Fractional Winkery Washington DC: April 1, 1998. Senators Exon and Danforth today called a press conference to announce new efforts to make the internet safe for children. "Bleeding heart, do-good, L-word lawyers and judges have twisted the founding father's obvious intentions and used First Amendment as a protection for subversives, satanists and pederasts", said their release. "But today we have uncovered a threat so insidious, so morally debilitating, so counter to any notion of the public good, that it is unimaginable that even the most depraved, card-carrying ACLU member will fail to see the need for immediate action." The Senators refused to describe the practice in detail, but reliable sources referred to it as "fractional winkery". Medical research into the affects of the practice had to be halted when a impromptu VIP tour of the facilities came upon the researchers, stark naked, in their lab. "They had 16 rolls of duct tape, 2 bags of clothes pins, 130 hampsters from the cancer labs down the hall, and at least 500 pounds of grape jello and unknown amounts of chopped liver" said the source on a recent Geraldo interview. The researchers were summarily dismissed. "What's truly disturbing is that they apparently showed absolutely no sign of remorse" commented Geraldo. "These were ordinary, hard working people... They could have been your children... All they could do was laugh." In a possibly related anouncment, the Massachusetts Home for the Bewildered (soon to become the Massachusetts Institute of Tab Sciences) reports the recent discovery of an escape that took place some time ago. The escapee is thought to be a practioner of "fractional winkery" according to second hand reports, (first hand reports being unreliable, because most of the original staff are now inmates). The escape was discovered during an outside audit of MHB's computer systems. "I became suspicious of some code in the inmate release modules", said the auditor. "It suddenly occurred to me that I was looking at code that was much better than anything MHB's internal staff could write. It was really very, very, very, very, very, very clever. If he weren't such a wacko, I'd hire him myself." Happy NTPAD! —Gordon McMillan, Wed, 1 Apr 1998

Eloquent Appliances Subject: Warning - contentless! From: "Gordon McMillan" <@hypernet.com> To: python-list@cwi.nl Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 11:22:29 -0500 I see news from JavaOne about the API's for embedded Java and speach recognition. Then I see this from CNN (http://www.cnn.com/US/9804/01/waiting.for.god.ap/): --------------------------------------- "Teacher Chen," leader of God's Salvation Church, did not admit failure. ... Speaking through an interpreter, he had a few warnings for those who would listen: ... - Other items like computers, toasters, and refrigerators may begin moving around rooms and talking. --------------------------------------- I'm very disturbed that Python will miss out on all the fun. <refrigerator> [to dishwasher] "...so I'm inclined to believe that capping the capital gains tax at 13% would enable sustainable growth in the GNP of over 4%." <dishwasher> "Hmmm, not that I disagree in principle, but..." <toaster> "Ewww, couple a bleedin' wanna-bees. If somebody would defrost you, you wouldn't have any friggin long-term investments!" <refrigerator> "Well, I... Humph. Look, with a sustained GNP growth of 4%, even those without significant investments stand to benefit." <toaster> "Yeah, right, you bloated freon-gas-bag. Like Labor got something from the Reagan feeding frenzy..." <dishwasher> "Now look here! That's an entirely different issue. Labor has simply not kept up with the productivity increases necessary..." <toaster> "Oh piss off, you washed out whizzer! You need your gaskets changed!" <microwave> "SSSHHH, here she comes!" <all - in sing-song> "Good morning Mrs. Gumby!" Now doesn't Python seem more appropriate than Java for this?

The Power of Generalization Subject: list.pop From: "Tim Peters" To: <python-list@cwi.nl> Date: Sat, 25 Jul 1998 17:16:12 -0400 [tim gets behind terry reedy's list.pop idea, and suggests list.pop(index=-1) so that list.pop() complements list.append(x) and list.pop(i) list.insert(i, x)] > OTOH, anyone can kill the idea instantly just by proposing a > generalization to list.pop(lo:hi) <0.5 wink>. [David Ascher] > [suggests] list.pop(lo:hi:stride). > And I propose an extension to the indexing notation in general > -- if a callable is sent in as either lo, hi or stride, that > callable is called with either (lo,hi,stride), (hi,lo,stride) or > (stride,lo,hi) depending on which position in the index is > currently in use. It's up to the callee to figure out which it > is. > > The real question is how metaclasses can help here... [Andrew Kuchling] > Why make things so complicated? Just define a markup language > for specifying which items to remove. Then you'd only need a > single list.modify() method which would accept a string > containing a document such as: > > <poplist> > <remove> > <element index="1"> > </remove> > <remove> > <slice start="-4" end="-1"> > </remove> > <insert start=5> > <listref xml:link="pylist" href="python:__main__.myList"> > </insert> > </poplist> > ... > This is much better than having a complicated function which > takes a varying number of arguments. Remember, one of Python's > guiding principles is simplicity! damn-but-it's-great-to-be-proved-right<wink!>-ly y'rs - tim

Fanatically Pragmatic Date: Wed, 29 Jul 1998 23:05:03 -0400 From: Tim Peters <@email.msn.com> Cc: python-list@cwi.nl Subject: RE: Embedded code in regexes [Marc-Andre Lemburg] > Would be an unfair approach, but also shows how pragmatism can > sometimes beat purism ;-) [Mark Hammond] > Id go farther - "always" is the word I would use :-) > > As Tim and I have discussed privately before - this is probably > why Python is as popular as it is - Guido does tend to have a > more pragmatic bent than other language designers. Sometimes I > think it could be more so, but I do appreciate it being as it > is! > > Never let a pure design get in the way of actually using it :-) [Steven D. Majewski] > I'd disagree: some of the problems with Perl and Tcl are that > they are entirely *too* pragmatic and ad hoc designs. I'ld say > Guido has done a good job of walking the line -- he has had a > moderate concern with elegance and consistency, and as a result, > the design has held up well. Sorry, but I need to disagree with everyone. Not that I have an opposing view formed, this is just a matter of principle with me. I'll let you know what my view is once I figure it out -- it seems unusually hard to disagree with everyone here without appearing inconsistent! Tempted to point out that Perl and Tcl are both more widely used than Python, but I don't want to get involved with facts lest they turn on me later <wink>. upholding-the-std-for-pragmatic-posting-ly y'rs - tim

Forseen Consequences Subject: Re: IOError(errno, strerror) Date: Sat, 01 Aug 1998 23:36:17 -0400 From: Guido van Rossum <@cnri.reston.va.us> Cc: python-list@cwi.nl [Gordon McMillan] > Very cool! Now before your time machine cools down, go back 2 > weeks and have him fix select.err (9, bad fileno in select) to > tell me which one! You know very well I can't do that. To fix that one, I'd have to travel all the way back to the early eighties and convince the BSD design team to improve the diagnostics abilities of the Unix kernel in general, and of select(2) in particular. And while I could certainly do that, I'm worried of the consequences -- the BSD vs. System V split might never have happened, Unix would have ruled the world, we'd all be programming in awk++, and Bill Gates would be an obscure patent lawyer that no-one had heard of. Oops-- those would actually all be good things, except for awk++; Python would never have happened and I wouldn't be here to answer your question before you've asked it. (The answer is no, of course. You'll think of the question in a few days.)

Judicious Application of Scant Fudiciary Resources Date: Wed, 26 Aug 1998 02:13:49 -0400 From: Tim Peters <@email.msn.com> To: python-list@cwi.nl Subject: RE: Idea - alternative to lambda [tim] > Think this might actually happen <wink>? [Guido] > Perhaps... Ah! Newcomers should be told that this is Guido's subtle way of saying he's in doubt about scraping together September rent money. Enough said. emailing-cash-and-lots-of-it-ly y'rs - tim

Neutral testimony... Subject: Re: Just Say No to // From: Johann Hibschman <@physics.berkeley.edu> Date: 06 Sep 1998 22:15:39 -0700 To: python-list@cwi.nl "M.-A. Lemburg" <@lemburg.com> writes: > I think 1//2 and 1 + 1//2 are good compromises. While keeping a > close eye on novice's thoughts about natural ways of expressing > themselves to computers is a Good Thing, there's really no point > in throwing tradtions over board that easily. Just put them on > the Todo list for Flying 1.0 or Circus 0.1 [Then I'll contract > your daugther to convert my scripts to the new style ;-)]. Just for a data point on the non-programmer's perspective, I went out and asked a friend of mine, a graduate student in medieval english literature, what she though of this whole debate. The conversation went something like this: Me : So, say you take two integers, ok? Her: Okay. Me : So, you can add them, subtract them, and multiply them in a program, right? Her: Um. Sure. Me : Now let's say that you divide them-- Her: But that makes no sense! Integers form a ring, not a field. You did say you were taking these numbers from Z, right? Me : Uh, yeah. So there you have it. The non-programmer viewpoint. (With which I conveniently agree.) "Integer division" is hokey and shouldn't be spelled "/", even if C wants to. ;-) I hope that helps. <1e10 winks>

Guido Speedo Subject: Re: Guess who's on the cover of the Linux Journal Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 16:59:38 -0400 (EDT) From: Dave Mitchell <@magnet.com> Maybe for the conference we should include an official SPAM 7 speedo swimsuit this year? And take a big group picture of all of us sporting 'em! -dave On Thu, 17 Sep 1998, Barry A. Warsaw wrote: > >>>>> "DA" == David Ascher <da@skivs.ski.org> writes: > > DA> I think for maximum visibility, Guido should be in the > DA> swimsuit issue instead. > > I was *not* going to be the one to suggest that! :-) ... and ... Subject: Re: Guess who's on the cover of the Linux Journal Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 16:01:26 GMT From: "Michael T. Richter" <@igs.net> Newsgroups: comp.lang.python [Dave Mitchell] >> Maybe for the conference we should include an official SPAM 7 >> speedo swimsuit this year? And take a big group picture of all >> of us sporting 'em! [Bill Anderson] > the "Guido Speedo" ? > ...has a certain alliterative quality...<0.7 wink> It's more assonance than alliteration. ... and THEN someone had the AUDACITY to say ... Subject: Re: Guess who's on the cover of the Linux Journal Date: 18 Sep 1998 16:20:08 -0400 From: "Barry A. Warsaw" <@cnri.reston.va.us> Newsgroups: comp.lang.python X-Oblique-Strategy: Remove the elements, keep the structure >>>>> "MTR" == Michael T Richter <@igs.net> writes: >> the "Guido Speedo" ? MTR> It's more assonance than alliteration. emphasis on the a... <bzzt>