I think there are many reasons, my reason to play it was mostly that I was expecting a lot of Delver, then a lot of “predator decks” e.g.: Miracles, Grixis Control, DnT, Maverick etc. Also ANT was for a reason at a low (which is a hard Matchup for Maverick I’m very sure). Concluding: I have always felt that Maverick is a little favoured vs DnT generally speaking and also is a little less “bad” versus Grixis Control (DnT is better versus Miracles for sure) but as I was expecting 4c pile-ish decks and Grixis Control having a resurgence I thought it would be great to play a deck that is good against Delver and also favoured vs some of the predator decks and then just hedged for the harder matchups. (via Plague Engineer in the sideboard mostly)

Interesting Sedris. I think Maverick is one of ANT’s worst matchups. By a lot. I think Maverick is harder than any blue deck except maybe Mracles. I’d say Chalice-Miracles-Maverick-Reanimator in order of bad matchups.

I mean g1 is sometimes randomly won by Green Sun’s Zenith on Gaddock Teeg on turn 2 and you often beat Thalia/Revokers out of DnT so that could make sense but I’m probably missing something else.

Well Maverick has discard and sweepers a lot. And also mostly it’s cause Knight of the Reliquary just fucking kills you. DnT wins on turn 10. Maverick on turn like 6. And Gaddock Teeg is much better than Phyrexian Revoker. Their density of game winning hatebears is really high. If say GW Maverick is probably favorable for ANT, Abzan Maverick feels almost as bad as Eldrazi if their sideboard is good. Not as bad, but hard.

Okay, that made a lot of sense. Especially with Thoughtseize (I had them in the sb for a league and it was great vs combo). I guess, vs the black sideboard its very hard, especially because they can also shut off every engine pretty quickly.

Yah exactly. Oh also Scavenging Ooze.

yeah we talked about this earlier, to me it doesn’t make sense that just a high density of hatebears will get there vs combo but I obviously trust Cyrus.

Why would it not make sense that a lot of hatebears would be good vs the deck that almost cant ever beat hatebears?

“yeah we talked about this earlier, to me it doesn´t make sense that just a high density of hatebears will get there vs combo but I obviously trust Cyrus.”

Don’t forget that Mother of Runes also doubles as a hate bear once you get your first hate bear. ANT doesn’t play mass removal these days. And if they do, it’s usually stopped by Gaddock Teeg.

I think people really overrate how good storm is vs lock pieces. Like they emotionally think about the times they lose to storm despite having one.

Yeah and one important thing to note is that Gaddock Teeg shuts off Massacre. You can rarely play around Massacre with DnT.

yeah I guess. It´s just very one-dimensional. pretty slow and also in a deck that can not search for the cards in any efficient way.

Green Sun’s Zenith is an efficient way I’d say. Like the literal most efficient way.

Green Sun’s Zenith? Also just massive amounts of hate bears >> searching, since already having the card is much more tempo-efficient than cantripping for it. Also don’t forget ANT is also slower postboard vs lock decks.

I’m kinda happy to hear this since I tanked a lot on if I should play a 2nd Gaddock Teeg in the sideboard, many people are leaving it out. You can’t Green Sun’s Zenith for anything relevant if the first Gaddock Teeg has been killed by Combo/Miracles. So I thought it is important.

I like the 2nd Gaddock Teeg a lot. Been back-and-forth on playing it or not

Yah I mean people think ANT is this blazing fast deck. It’s basically the same speed as Elves.

I have a friend who would mull hands without t1 interaction on the play vs ANT because of the few times he got t1 killed, it is so hard to convince him that its wrong to, lol.

already having the card is not a real argument really. Sure it is great vs Thoughtseize if your hand is double Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, but the Green Sun’s Zenith argument is also somewhat slow, no? I guess against GWb Maverick you are in a world of trouble but just straight up GW not so much. Aand how many discard spells do you expect on average from Maverick in a single game…one?)

They have essentially 9 mana dorks. So they can turn 2 Green Sun’s Zenith for Gaddock Teeg rather often.

I suppose Wasteland is also annoying for the go-long games.

Getting ANT to less than 15 and having a Scavenging Ooze is almost a hard lock. Which is funny. It’s why Deathrite Shaman + Quirion Ranger was such a nightmare. But yeah I mean ANT is really a turn 3.5 combo deck.

So the more I think about it the more it makes sense. I just couldn’t believe that a deck with Dark Ritual had trouble vs a super fair deck.

Well I think you maybe think ANT is faster than it is. Which most people do.

Ant is very good vs DnT though because DnT has an anemic clock and often lose to one Thoughtseize. I think Elves is a harder matchup than DnT.

“already having the card is not a real argument really.” => Why?

But coming back to my assumption that the matchup has to be bad (which it is probably not), I think that was mainly because I feel way more in control of what happens in fair matchups (like DnT, mirror, Delver, Control) even though Miracles is probably better vs Maverick than Storm by a wide margin I usually feel like I can outplay my Miracles opponent to a relevant degree and vs ANT the games you lose probably just feel worse even tho they are less. I have never really looked at my numbers on this matter so it is an entirely “feeling-based” standpoint and might have been wrong.

I think you’re one of the most biased guys when it comes to playing non-blue decks 😉 Having a card in hand by naturally drawing it is the essence of non-cantrip decks.

Yah, I agree with every point Julian has made.

@Sed Ris

@Cyrus Corman-Gill

@Marcus Ewaldh

Can I quote this conversation about Maverick / ANT for our next Everday Eternal episode? I think it would be really good content.

I’ve played the ANT vs Maverick mu more than any matchup in paper because the other best player at my LGS only plays Maverick.

Yeah you can but make me sound smart.

haha, I’m gonna mention the good parts, but also post it as an overview for people.