spbelky Profile Blog Joined October 2010 United States 623 Posts Last Edited: 2012-09-04 16:47:40 #1 Preface

In a recent thread about Korean Terrans, the argument was made that the disparity between Foreigner Terrans and Korean Terrans is so large, Korean Terrans could be considered a 4th race in SC2. If you follow the professional scene, it's quite clear that the difference between a KR and Foreign Terran is quite large, especially in comparison to KR Protoss/Zerg and their Foreign counterparts. While this may be true, unfortunately most of the discussion in the thread revolved around the reasons Koreans are better than Foreigners in general, and not so much about why the Terran skill gap is significantly larger than the other two races. What is it about Terran that makes it so difficult to master?



Well if you're hoping I have the answers... Sorry but I don't. And even if I had an eloquent and accurate explanation for this phenomenon, that doesn't mean I'd have a solution to close the gap.



However, there was one



+ Show Spoiler + On August 28 2012 04:23 _Search_ wrote:

I'm master league in KR and NA and I find the Korean Terrans do a number of things that make them much scarier:



- They don't always fast expand directly at their natural. When I scout with my overlord and don't see an expansion down I start going into anxiety mode, dropping spines and delaying tech. Then the fully completed OC drops into the natural, losing only a few seconds compared to if the Terran had built it right at the natural. And the other half the time they're actually doing a risky one-base rush.



- They know what sucks about Zerg and abuse the hell out of it. Zerg can't shoot up, so TvZ early game is all about using medivacs and banshees to mess up the Zerg economy. Zerg needs to see to survive, so preventing creep spread and sniping overlords kills Zerg's chances of survival. Zerg has no ranged units, so Shakuras Plateau and Antiga Shipyard are basically auto-wins for any Terran willing to exploit the cliffs. Zerg falls hard to unexpected tech, so showing up at Zerg's natural with 16 hellions (after preventing any sort of Zerg scouting) is an instant win for a zerg with bad sim city and no roaches. Zerg can't kill units being healed by medivacs, and they definitely can't kill marines in mineral lines, so the game for a lot of Koreans is to just get to those sweet spots where marines are invulnerable.



- Korean Terrans play very risky with their medivac drops. They lose them constantly but keep doing them because they know it just takes one good drop to end the game. Once those marines are sandwiched in the minerals they can't be killed. They also do multi-pronged drops while clearing creep with their main army.



- They never. leave. games. Shoot me now.



- As one mega bio/tank push is being swarmed the second is on the way. Day9 said Terrans generally wait 2 minutes between marine tank pushes. Not Korean Terrans. I have lost games because I literally did not have 20 seconds to morph banelings during 3 solid minutes of a constant stream of units. Ahead, behind, Korean do NOT care. They will keep attacking until someone dies.



- Koreans tend to trade a bigger economy for constant aggression. They tend to take their third very late and their fourth even later, if ever.



All in all the best way to describe the difference between Koreans and foreigners is by describing each's idea of a perfect game. To a foreign Terran the perfect game is getting away with taking a ridiculously greedy third. To a Korean Terran it's winning in the first 6 minutes. Zergs aren't scared of greedy Terrans, but they're terrified of risky rushes.



The Situation



Instead of focusing on the disparity between professional KR/NA/EU Terrans, I'd like to focus on the KR/NA/EU Ladders, because this is where the majority of us play our games. I firmly believe that the current struggles of Terrans on the ladder is a result of our own doing. As a community we try and emphasize and reward strong macro play, while discouraging and criticizing anything else (1/2 base aggression, all-ins, risky builds, and of course, cheese). Simply put, this mindset and resulting metagame strongly favors Protoss and Zerg players, because it promotes predictable, safe (or greedy) macro games that achieve the late-game as quickly as possible.



The Proposal



Make those Zerg and Protoss players earn the late game. From now on, I'd like to see the community embrace non-standard non-macro styles, and I'd like to see as many NA/EU Terrans cheese and 2base all-in or simply be more aggressive. Too many times have I seen TvPs and TvZs where the Z or P is just abhorantly greedy with their build, but the Terran can do nothing to punish it because he himself is trying to play for a macro game. In those cases, had the Terran cheesed, all-in'd, been super aggressive off 1 or 2 base, or anything other than macro, he could have taken a quick win.



Protosses and Zergs (and some Terrans) have become to comfortable in the current meta-game, blindly opening with super greedy builds, assuming their Terran opponent is very unlikely to cheese or 2base all-in. This mindset and meta-game allows them to get away with greedy builds they should not be able to get away with, putting them at the advantage in an already imbalanced* late-game. This needs to stop, and we can make it stop if we simply take away that comfort zone by refusing to play their greedy macro games every game (can still mix it in once in a while. Macro games are not bad, but if they become the expected norm EVERY GAME, this is not OK for Terran players). My overall goal is to shift the "norm" to, "If you want to get to the late-game, you should play safe , not greedy ."



TvZ Analysis



TvP is not as blatant as TvZ, so I will focus more on TvZ.

Terran build orders and openings are not very flexible, and their overall ability to deviate from a predetermined plan is severely limited. This is due to the nature of our production facilities and tech path. Terrans simply can not make tech switches or ramp up production as quickly as a Zerg. This is not imbalanced, it is just the nature of the races. With that said, if a Terran scouts a Zerg being overly greedy, unless he has already commited to the proper response (somehow before scouting, lol?), his options to punish the greed are quite limited (if there is any option at all). However, if a Zerg scouts an overly greedy Terran, it's quite easy to cut drone production and start pumping out units to expose the weakness in the Terran's play. Again, this is not imbalanced, it is just the nature of the races...



This inability to adjust and adapt in a time efficient and meaningful manner to what we scout in the TvZ matchup means that we need to prepare for the greedy before hand. This doesn't mean we need to cheese or scv pull every game, but it does mean we should be more aggressive. Instead of trying to outgreed the Zerg, just go kill him. I realize that if you tried this with standard builds it would not work (this is why the Zerg do it, they know they are safe even if we try to get aggressive). This is why we need to be playing pre-ordained aggressive builds, which I will update in this thread later today when I get home.



Aggressive TvZ Builds to choose from

Going to try and list these roughly in order of how quickly they hit.

11/11 proxy rax with SCV pull and bunker (all-in)

12/14 rax with bunker pressure (can follow up in a variety of ways)

3rax

Gas first reactor hellion (can either go up to starport for banshee or 2nd factory for all hellions)

4rax off 1 base (basically a 1rax expand except instead of making a CC you cut an SCV and marine, and drop 3 additional barracks at once).

Marauder/Hellion without stim

1rax expo into 6rax (after natural OC finishes, cut marine/scv production to drop 5 additional rax, then resume scv/marines)

CC first into 8rax (might want a bunker, but as with the previous build, cut scv/marine production in order to power up on barracks)

*Need to find the stim version of marauder/hellion

4x Thor

2base 2port banshee



Aggressive TvP Builds to choose from

11/11 proxy rax with SCV pull and bunker (all-in)

3rax

2rax (1tech 1reactor concussive push - all in if nexus first gogo)

Proxy Thor push (find a good spot to hide an armory and factory and go for it)

SOOOOOOOO many 1-1-1 builds to choose from...

-hellion drop into 2port banshee (can fake hellion drop and run marine/hellion into natural, or drop marines and run hellions into natural)

-marine tank banshee with raven for PDD

-marine tank banshee with cloak and late siege

-later marine tank banshee with 2nd and 3rd barracks

There is an old build, 4rax stim/ghost (2) push that I need to dig up...

Coming soon



Reddit Responses

NoseKnowsAll

+ Show Spoiler + If you go into a PvT (as protoss), scout no gas, and assume he's 1rax FEing and going for a macro game, then you can cut corners a little bit in order to get a ridiculous upgrade advantage or super fast third.



This straight up loses to some SCV trains. If toss faces an SCV train, maybe he holds, maybe he doesn't... but he sure as hell is going to play more cautiously the next time he sees no gas in order to avoid losing "stupid" games.



This is how Korean Terrans get advantages in bo5s. This is how Korean Terrans mind game opponents. When you play MVP, you're not playing a macro beast - you're playing someone who has no qualms at all of allining 2 of these games just to make sure that when he decides to macro - you're not playing stupidly greedy and getting away with it.



Terran as a race can make ladder just like this bo5. If 2/5 Terrans you play go allin, then you'll be cautious and not as greedy when you're playing the other 3. This gives an advantage to Terran as a race in all 5 games. This is how we make the ladder easier. I, for one, am going to be throwing in allins of some sort more often in my play. I might not win those games, but it will definitely help out the other Terrans out there who play my same opponent later on. Go get 'em guys.





In a recent thread about Korean Terrans, the argument was made that the disparity between Foreigner Terrans and Korean Terrans is so large, Korean Terrans could be considered a 4th race in SC2. If you follow the professional scene, it's quite clear that the difference between a KR and Foreign Terran is quite large, especially in comparison to KR Protoss/Zerg and their Foreign counterparts. While this may be true, unfortunately most of the discussion in the thread revolved around the reasons Koreans are better than Foreigners in general, and not so much about why the Terran skill gap is significantly larger than the other two races. What is it about Terran that makes it so difficult to master?Well if you're hoping I have the answers... Sorry but I don't. And even if I had an eloquent and accurate explanation for this phenomenon, that doesn't mean I'd have a solution to close the gap.However, there was one post in the thread that stood out to me. Although what _Search_ states may seem obvious to some, I think it's worth a closer look.Instead of focusing on the disparity betweenKR/NA/EU Terrans, I'd like to focus on the KR/NA/EU Ladders, because this is where the majority of us play our games. I firmly believe that the current struggles of Terrans on the ladder is a result of our own doing. As a community we try and emphasize and reward strong macro play, while discouraging and criticizing anything else (1/2 base aggression, all-ins, risky builds, and of course, cheese). Simply put, this mindset and resulting metagame strongly favors Protoss and Zerg players, because it promotes predictable, safe (or greedy) macro games that achieve the late-game as quickly as possible.Make those Zerg and Protoss playersthe late game. From now on, I'd like to see the community embrace non-standard non-macro styles, and I'd like to see as many NA/EU Terrans cheese and 2base all-in or simply be more aggressive. Too many times have I seen TvPs and TvZs where the Z or P is just abhorantly greedy with their build, but the Terran can do nothing to punish it because he himself is trying to play for a macro game. In those cases, had the Terran cheesed, all-in'd, been super aggressive off 1 or 2 base, or anything other than macro, he could have taken a quick win.Protosses and Zergs (and some Terrans) have become to comfortable in the current meta-game, blindly opening with super greedy builds, assuming their Terran opponent is very unlikely to cheese or 2base all-in. This mindset and meta-game allows them to get away with greedy builds, putting them at the advantage in an already imbalanced* late-game. This needs to stop, and we can make it stop if we simply take away that comfort zone by refusing to play their greedy macro games every game (can still mix it in once in a while. Macro games are not bad, but if they become the expected norm EVERY GAME, this is not OK for Terran players). My overall goal is to shift the "norm" to, "If you want to get to the late-game, you should play, not."Terran build orders and openings are not very flexible, and their overall ability to deviate from a predetermined plan is severely limited. This is due to the nature of our production facilities and tech path. Terrans simply can not make tech switches or ramp up production as quickly as a Zerg. This is not imbalanced, it is just the nature of the races. With that said, if a Terran scouts a Zerg being overly greedy, unless he has already commited to the proper response (somehow before scouting, lol?), his options to punish the greed are quite limited (if there is any option at all). However, if a Zerg scouts an overly greedy Terran, it's quite easy to cut drone production and start pumping out units to expose the weakness in the Terran's play. Again, this is not imbalanced, it is just the nature of the races...This inability to adjust and adapt in a time efficient and meaningful manner to what we scout in the TvZ matchup means that we need to prepare for the greedy before hand. This doesn't mean we need to cheese or scv pull every game, but it does mean we should be more aggressive. Instead of trying to outgreed the Zerg, just go kill him. I realize that if you tried this with standard builds it would not work (this is why the Zerg do it, they know they are safe even if we try to get aggressive). This is why we need to be playing pre-ordained aggressive builds, which I will update in this thread later today when I get home.11/11 proxy rax with SCV pull and bunker (all-in)12/14 rax with bunker pressure (can follow up in a variety of ways)3rax link (low ground wall-off optional)Gas first reactor hellion (can either go up to starport for banshee or 2nd factory for all hellions)4rax off 1 base (basically a 1rax expand except instead of making a CC you cut an SCV and marine, and drop 3 additional barracks at once).Marauder/Hellion without stim link 1rax expo into 6rax (after natural OC finishes, cut marine/scv production to drop 5 additional rax, then resume scv/marines)CC first into 8rax (might want a bunker, but as with the previous build, cut scv/marine production in order to power up on barracks)*Need to find the stim version of marauder/hellion4x Thor link 2base 2port banshee link 11/11 proxy rax with SCV pull and bunker (all-in)3rax link (low ground wall-off optional)2rax (1tech 1reactor concussive push - all in if nexus first gogo)Proxy Thor push (find a good spot to hide an armory and factory and go for it)SOOOOOOOO many 1-1-1 builds to choose from...-hellion drop into 2port banshee (can fake hellion drop and run marine/hellion into natural, or drop marines and run hellions into natural)-marine tank banshee with raven for PDD-marine tank banshee with cloak and late siege-later marine tank banshee with 2nd and 3rd barracksThere is an old build, 4rax stim/ghost (2) push that I need to dig up...NoseKnowsAll