iJinjin wrote: Just before anyone thinks that the new LN changes would make long notes easier... you're very mistaken.



Before I begin, I still stick to my words about supporting the new LN changes because it will make LNs less "mashy" and people would need more skills to hit them accurately, but I think the leniency timing could be increased a bit more.



Smoogipooo's post about LNs getting a 1.5x timing leniency is kinda misleading, because it makes it look like the timing window for long notes have become loose compared to what we had before.

However, the current system for LN releases actually works as follows:

2.4x timing leniency for Rainbow 300s

2.2x timing leniency for 300

2.0x timing leniency for everything else



The current proposal decreases that LN leniency to 1.5x. If you guys are supporting the new LN changes on the belief that hitting LNs accurately would be a lot easier, then you probably would want to disagree with the new changes instead.



In addition, the current system allows you to hold the key down even when the LN is over and will not cause a miss. Instead, it will just decrease the judgement that you get from the LN (200, 100, 50). However, the new system will give you a miss on the release if you don't time it correctly. This means that if you were the type of person that didn't really pay attention to LN endings and release them too early or too late (or usually get 200 or below on LNs), you're going to be hurt a lot by this new change.



Therefore, I strongly suggest you mania players to look again (and even try it out yourselves) into the LN changes, and see if you guys are satisfied with it.

Here are the timing windows for OD8 (I assume timing values are truncated), for the first criterion (LNStart):

300g: 19ms (16ms * 1.2 rounded down)

300: 44ms (40ms * 1.1)

200: 73ms

100: 103ms

50: 127ms

The second criterion works like this, keep in mind this accounts for the combined time of LNStart and LNEnd.

300g: 38ms (16ms * 2.4 rounded down)

300: 88ms (40ms * 2.2)

200: 146ms (73ms * 2)

100: 206ms (103ms * 2)

50s: 254ms (127ms * 2)



This is incorrect - or rather how you described LNs in score v1 is incorrect. Your message is still correct, however - I would recommend people to try out the LN changes.LNs in score v1 are based on two criteria - the gap betweenand the LN head (let's say, LNStart), and the combined time of the difference between the last LN head hit and the LN head (LNStart) and the difference between the LN release and when you're supposed to release the LN (LNEnd).Basically, if the last LN head hit is 20ms from the LN head, you will never get a 300g. If your last LN head hit is 14ms, as long as it meets the second criterion, you will get a 300g.If your LNStart is 14ms, you have a release window of 24ms for a 300g, a 74ms release window for a normal 300, 132ms window for a 200, and so on. If this was scorev2, your release windows will be. Not necessarily a change with rainbows, but it greatly affects 200s and lower judgements.How LN releases can potentially be 2.4x as lenient as normal hits is when you have a perfect LNStart (0ms) and you hit a rainbow 300. Same deal with normal 300s, except it's 2.2x as lenient based on the table above.What iJinjin has said about requiring community input about LNs is definitely necessary, becausePlay through LN heavy charts that you have, and let smoogi (and post your thoughts in this thread) know so we know whether or not we should make LNs more lenient. I personally want LN releases to be 1.75x as lenient rather than 1.5x, but again - this is something that requires experimenting.