GoOdy Profile Joined October 2003 Germany 44 Posts Last Edited: 2013-12-03 18:37:26 #1



One of the biggest problems with mech in tvp is the immortal, because he really destroys every mech unit and at the same time he just wont die to tanks, right now u need 10 tank shots to get rid of the shields and then 4 more for the 200 hitpoints: 14 attacks in total



Now you can't just nerf the immortal, because he has to be strong in pvp, pvz and u can't just buff the tanks or it might change tvt and tvz to much. So my idea is to double the shots per attack: At the moment its 1 shot per attack with 50 dmg, but if u would change that to 2 shots per attack with 25 dmg is would be almost the same in every situation and every fight, but it would kill off 20 shields and not only 10.

So then u would need 5 attacks (10 shots) to get rid of the shields and then 4 more for the 200 hitpoints: 9 attacks in total.



››› You save 5 attacks!



The only difference overall would be, that with 2 shots the armor will count double, so it could be good to change the 25 to 26 dmg to compensate for that.



So what do you think?





And maybe somebody who knows how to use the editor could try that out to see how big that change would be.





First map to try this:



On December 03 2013 23:42 Big J wrote:

A modified Unit Tester is finished an published on EU and AM



Name: GoOdy's Tank Tester by Jay



Changes:

The Sieged Tank's damage has been changed to be applied twice.

Damage changed to 18 (+7vs armored).

Vehicle Upgrade changed to +2(+1vs armored) for the Sieged Tank Suggestion for a Mech tvp BuffOne of the biggest problems with mech in tvp is the immortal, because he really destroys every mech unit and at the same time he just wont die to tanks, right now u need 10 tank shots to get rid of the shields and then 4 more for the 200 hitpoints: 14 attacks in totalNow you can't just nerf the immortal, because he has to be strong in pvp, pvz and u can't just buff the tanks or it might change tvt and tvz to much. So my idea is to double the shots per attack: At the moment its 1 shot per attack with 50 dmg, but if u would change that to 2 shots per attack with 25 dmg is would be almost the same in every situation and every fight, but it would kill off 20 shields and not only 10.So then u would need 5 attacks (10 shots) to get rid of the shields and then 4 more for the 200 hitpoints: 9 attacks in total.››› You save 5 attacks!The only difference overall would be, that with 2 shots the armor will count double, so it could be good to change the 25 to 26 dmg to compensate for that.So what do you think?And maybe somebody who knows how to use the editor could try that out to see how big that change would be.First map to try this:On December 03 2013 23:42 Big J wrote:A modified Unit Tester is finished an published on EU and AMName: GoOdy's Tank Tester by JayChanges:The Sieged Tank's damage has been changed to be applied twice.Damage changed to 18 (+7vs armored).Vehicle Upgrade changed to +2(+1vs armored) for the Sieged Tank

llIH Profile Joined June 2011 Norway 1874 Posts #2 Interesting. Very good point. I never thought of that. I wish Mech could get a chance vs Protoss.

Tchado Profile Blog Joined January 2011 Jordan 1822 Posts #3 damn that is a nice suggestion

( bush Profile Joined April 2011 321 Posts Last Edited: 2013-12-03 12:31:14 #4 Just add a bonus against protoss shields, while making tanks ignore (or at least being stronger) the immortal's hardened shields. oo

Cascade Profile Blog Joined March 2006 Australia 5405 Posts #5 Hmm, very interesting! Can't really see any flaws.

Maybe it'll give a bit less splash, if the first of the two shots kills whatever you are attacking? Or maybe the second shot will go off anyway? Can't really see the armour thing be a big deal. The +damage from ups will have to be an even number (it's 5 now right?), but shouldn't be a deal breaker either.

Lyyna Profile Joined June 2011 France 765 Posts Last Edited: 2013-12-03 12:43:00 #6 On December 03 2013 21:30 ( bush wrote:

Just add a bonus against protoss shields, while making tanks ignore (or at least being stronger) the immortal's hardened shields.

The immortal was basically made specifically to deal with the tank (remember broodwar tvp? Tank, tank, and tank), it would be a bad idea to make the tank ignore the immortal specificity



Really good point Goody, sadly i think it won't be enough (early game/air still would be problems), but it would be an elegant way to help with the immortal basically making tank irrelevant if you don't have 10 ghosts/ravens to support them



And David Kim also seems to have a problem with any elegant solution helping the ground-mech play, he seems to clearly force mech into a thor/air ball The immortal was basically made specifically to deal with the tank (remember broodwar tvp? Tank, tank, and tank), it would be a bad idea to make the tank ignore the immortal specificityReally good point Goody, sadly i think it won't be enough (early game/air still would be problems), but it would be an elegant way to help with the immortal basically making tank irrelevant if you don't have 10 ghosts/ravens to support themAnd David Kim also seems to have a problem with any elegant solution helping the ground-mech play, he seems to clearly force mech into a thor/air ball http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-strategy/459600-how-to-mech-them-cry-lyynas-mech-in-hots - The 2014 Mech guide ! http://www.twitch.tv/lyyna for stream and contact infos

Pirfiktshon Profile Joined June 2013 United States 1072 Posts #7



well done The only it will effect is armor against it will be twice as effective so armor that is 4 will now soak 8 Damage up lol I guess you really could make up for that with the Upgrade so I have to say its quite an effective and very very good take on a possible solutionwell done

Green_25 Profile Joined June 2013 Great Britain 695 Posts #8 Why not just give tanks some kind of upgrade which boosts damage versus protoss shields?

shadymmj Profile Joined June 2010 1878 Posts #9 A more elegant solution will be to make attacks that do under 30 damage be reduced to 10 damage against hardened shields, and those that do 31 and over be reduced to 20 damage. Just an alternative idea. There is no such thing is "e-sports". There is Brood War, and then there is crap for nerds.

Dvriel Profile Joined November 2011 607 Posts #10 The only thing they(tanks) need is a bonus to Shields as the WM got. Its not so difficult Blizzard,so please,would you just make Xmas better and put on patch with this unique change?

r1flEx Profile Joined October 2012 Belgium 256 Posts #11 or just change thors, heavy air attack, light ground attack but with lower range. could also make up for it

Sissors Profile Joined March 2012 1395 Posts #12 On December 03 2013 21:59 r1flEx wrote:

or just change thors, heavy air attack, light ground attack but with lower range. could also make up for it

Or add the AOE ground effect special ability from WOL campaign Thors. This can help strip the shields of immortals.



Afraid it kills groups of lings/blings too fast? Well for starters I don't think there is a danger of mech being too strong vs zerg right now. But aditionally in the campaign there is quite a long startup time. Just make it non-cancellable once started (or at least that if cancelled the timer restarts), and then you really have to mismanage your lings to be hit by them. Same for speed roaches, they should be fast enough to dodge most of the damage at least. Or add the AOE ground effect special ability from WOL campaign Thors. This can help strip the shields of immortals.Afraid it kills groups of lings/blings too fast? Well for starters I don't think there is a danger of mech being too strong vs zerg right now. But aditionally in the campaign there is quite a long startup time. Just make it non-cancellable once started (or at least that if cancelled the timer restarts), and then you really have to mismanage your lings to be hit by them. Same for speed roaches, they should be fast enough to dodge most of the damage at least.

Sapphire.lux Profile Joined July 2010 Romania 2620 Posts #13 On December 03 2013 21:39 Lyyna wrote:

Show nested quote +

On December 03 2013 21:30 ( bush wrote:

Just add a bonus against protoss shields, while making tanks ignore (or at least being stronger) the immortal's hardened shields.

The immortal was basically made specifically to deal with the tank (remember broodwar tvp? Tank, tank, and tank), it would be a bad idea to make the tank ignore the immortal specificity

The immortal was basically made specifically to deal with the tank (? Tank, tank, and tank), it would be a bad idea to make the tank ignore the immortal specificity

Yeah, mech was great in BW, unlike the deathball/ tower defence mech we sometimes see in SC2.



Interesting suggestion, never heard it being made before. Yeah, mech was great in BW, unlike the deathball/ tower defence mech we sometimes see in SC2.Interesting suggestion, never heard it being made before. Head Coach Park: "They should buff tanks!"

drkcid Profile Joined October 2012 Spain 169 Posts #14 I like the idea, It gives more room for tank damage bonuses because as someone pointed, the armor applies twice.

Just for fun

Syn Harvest Profile Joined July 2012 United States 187 Posts #15 You could just make Ghosts and use emp to get rid of shields. I see Thorzain do it on his stream all the time since the patch and he is really starting to get the hang of it. Open your heart and embrace the darkness

KnowMe Profile Blog Joined April 2010 Germany 224 Posts #16 i think you should also put tiny emps in tankshots so you dont need many shots for archons any more.



seriously goody: mech is quite strong against protoss as it is. immortals are supposed to give protoss a fighting chance. also you usually add ghosts very quickly anyway. no need to buff you any further http://www.facebook.com/KnowMeSc2 https://twitter.com/YouBetterKnowMe

mikedebo Profile Joined December 2010 Canada 4305 Posts #17 best possible person to suggest a mech tvp buff <3 I NEED A PHOTOSYNTHESIS! ||| 'airtoss' is an anagram of 'artosis' ||| SANGHOOOOOO ||| "No Korea? No problem. I have internet." -- Stardust

Drake Profile Joined October 2010 Germany 6134 Posts Last Edited: 2013-12-03 13:14:15 #18

no shields, no problem



but jaeh this double shot sounds like a nice idea even i not see any real reason for a buff in mech tvp right now nice suggestion, but since the last patch, i see htomario with a huge winratio in tvp with his "many ghost" mech styleno shields, no problembut jaeh this double shot sounds like a nice idea even i not see any real reason for a buff in mech tvp right now Nb.Drake / CoL_Drake / Original Joined TL.net Tuesday, 15th of March 2005

Slydie Profile Joined August 2013 838 Posts #19 No! The tank is supposed to be strong vs armor, and doubelng the shots makes them much weaker. Double attacks means double damage reduction, ultras, marauders, roaches and colosseus smile... Personally, I dont like the double attack concept much anyway, almost all toss units have it.



I think a rapid fire mech or air unit should be the answer, maybe redesign thors or banshees? Alternatively more accessible ghosts or remove the immortal altogether in LotV. Hardened shields is just not good unit design imo. Buff the siegetank

ChadMann Profile Joined March 2011 Australia 127 Posts #20 idk.. I think Immortals are supposed to kill mech..... Maybe you should just make ghosts? #1 ANZ SC2 Team Manager https://twitter.com/ChadMannSC2

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