This interview, conducted by David Downs, originally appeared on Smell the Truth:

Best-selling travel author and television personality Rick Steves is something of a sleeper agent for marijuana legalization.

The host of American Public Radio’s Rick Steves’ Europe is among the most mainstream advocates for cannabis law reform. Steves co-sponsored New Approach Washington’s 2012 initiative to legalize, tax and regulate marijuana in Washington State, and toured Oregon in 2014 speaking in favor of that state’s winning tax and regulate campaign.

This February, he discusses the strategies that are legalizing marijuana in the U.S. — as part of his first-ever appearance at the International Cannabis Business Conference in San Francisco.

In part one of our interview, Steves minced no words — calling out cannabis capitalists for tarnishing what’s really a civil rights movement. Steves warned that California could fail to legalize pot with too liberal an initiative in 2016.

In this segment, he talks a bit more about what traveling has taught him about the issue, saying essentially we live in two different Americas.

StT: Traveling around the country, where is America on cannabis law reform?

Rick Steves: I think the people are ahead of the politicians.

StT: How long will it take for politicians to catch up to where people are this issue?

Steves: Well, we have two different countries right now. I’ve traveled all over the country. Look at the East Coast. They just can’t hardly believe how far along we are and in their world it feels like they’re still behind. They’re on the dark side of the moon. I think that’s going to change very quickly and I think after 2016, once California legalizes, and a couple other states will go along with it — it’ll be easier because it’s a presidential year — I think it will be pretty hard to deny the fact that prohibition of marijuana is on its way out.

Right now there’s still the hope that it can be rolled back. I’m really thankful we passed in Oregon and Alaska, but we really need California on-board.

StT: Where were you on election night?

Steves: I was depressed up in Seattle. I was sure excited when Oregon won on marijuana, just like two years earlier— I was at the Westin Hotel in Seattle then. That was euphoria.

StT: But depressed over the loss of the House to the GOP?

Steves: If you’re a Democrat that was very sad.

StT: Are we, as a country, really in two different silos?

Steves: It makes me sad to think about it. I’m not a political commentator in that regard. It’s just in Washington we’re talking about equal rights for gay people, civil liberty to smoke marijuana, taking care of the environment, and it’s all just decency and common sense and patriotism. And in other parts of the country that would be, like, inconceivable.

So yeah, there’s a huge difference between the more progressive and more regressive parts of the country. That’s just the way it is. I’m sure that’s not unusual with countries, and certain areas lead the way.

We’re still a racist country, but we’ve come a long way since the civil rights eras and we are still a homophobic country, but we’ve come a long way in that regard. And we still got a war on marijuana and have come along in that regard.

StT: How far will it go? Will we see federal government call off a 70 year war on marijuana in our lifetimes?

Steves: It’s going to have to come to a point where politicians in their own political self-interest think it’s safe and advantageous to come out on the side of drug law reform. Right now, they don’t care about drug safety. They just care about their standing with the electorate.

I think that people don’t realize that the sky will not fall when we legalize marijuana. My contention all along has been use will not go up when it’s legalized. We’ll just take the crime out of it. It’s already a huge black market economy.

StT: The GOP successfully moved to defund legalization in Washington DC. Do you think that was a good move for them?

Steves: It’s just one more example of how Republicans are so out of touch with things.

For me, the challenge is raising awareness with the general public that this is not pro-drug. Use is not going to go up. This is common sense. This is respect for law and order. Fiscal responsibility. States rights. You can frame it in all sorts of ways that are conservative. There is no consistency in Republican ideology. They wear their flag on their lapel and they call themselves conservatives but they ignore these issues.

All I do is flog away as much I can in public on these kind of issues, so I’m going to be talking at this convention.

StT: You toured Oregon in support of legalization, got any stories from the road?

Steves: For me I like talking to conservative communities. Those are my favorite gigs — in Corvallis and Eugene and Portland, it was kind of like, ‘Of course’. When we got to Medford that’s where we got more conservative groups. And if you can get conservatives to sit down for 20 minutes and listen to you on this you might have a good chance to — if not convert them — at least respect your opinion. But that’s the trick is to get people who never venture away from Fox News to listen to you for 20 minutes. That’s what my little advantage is — people like me from my travel stuff so they’ll hear me out if I’m well-organized on drug policy reform.