michael barbaro

From The New York Times, I’m Michael Barbaro. This is “The Daily.”

archived recording [CHANTING]

michael barbaro

Today: As China celebrated 70 years of Communist Party rule —

archived recording [CHANTING]

michael barbaro

— scenes of pageantry, pride and unity in Beijing —

archived recording [YELLING]

michael barbaro

— were met with firebombs, rubber bullets and mass protests in Hong Kong. My colleague Natalie Kitroeff speaks with China correspondent Javier Hernández about a day of historic contrasts. It’s Wednesday, October 2.

natalie kitroeff

Javier, take us back to a few weeks ago when you get this knock at your door.

javier hernández

It’s Saturday morning. I’m in my home in Beijing just relaxing, and I get a call from downstairs saying that there’s an officer from the Beijing Police Department, and he wants to discuss something with you. And in that moment, I didn’t really know what he wanted to talk about, whether it was an article I’d written. Sometimes we get visits from the police. But in this case, I really had no idea. And so I was racking my brain, and before I knew it, the knock was at my door. And I opened it up, and it was Officer Wang Yong, and he was a veteran of the Police Department. He had a nice smile, but also looked kind of nervous. And he asked, “Do you know about the National Day celebrations?”

natalie kitroeff

And do you?

javier hernández

Well, as a correspondent in Beijing, yes, I did. We had sort of been obsessed with the National Day preparations. And so it’s this yearly event where China celebrates its birthday, where there’s often a lot of festivities going on. But this year was the 70th anniversary of the founding of the People’s Republic of China, and so it was an extra-special year. It was, like, the biggest event of the year or even the decade for the Communist Party, and they were planning this huge military parade that would crown Xi Jinping as the indomitable leader of China. And so it seemed like it was going to be a particularly sensitive year.

natalie kitroeff

But why is he at your door asking if you know about this celebration?

javier hernández

Well, he wanted me to leave. He basically said, you have no choice. You need to leave. Armed police are going to be stationed inside your home for four days.

natalie kitroeff

Whoa. Why would the police need to take over your apartment for this parade?

javier hernández

Well, I’ve been asking myself that a lot lately. And I don’t think there’s a clear answer, but I think it has to do with this obsession with security that’s spread throughout China in recent years, and this fear that something could go wrong. This is a meticulously rehearsed extravaganza. This is something that they’ve planned every detail. They’ve been rehearsing for months, and everyone here knows that they’re going to be on TV, and I think there’s probably a lot of fear on that stage if anything goes wrong. And so I think they were just being extra careful, wanted to minimize any risk, and kicked me out.

natalie kitroeff

So where do you go?

javier hernández

So I stayed in my apartment for a few more weeks. Every weekend, though, the party was having these mass rehearsals for the parade, and so they forced me to stay in my room under curfew while they held these rehearsals, and I was told to close my curtains promptly at 8:00 p.m. And the officer kept checking in on me to see what my plans were, and I didn’t really know, so I kind of just put him off for a while. And then eventually, I had to make a decision, so I decided to go to Taipei, where I have family and watch the parade from there.

archived recording [MUSIC]

javier hernández

So it starts about 10:00 a.m., and you see thousands of soldiers come out holding the Chinese flag, many holding huge rifles.

archived recording [CHANTING]

javier hernández

The weapons are rolling out one by one. We see supersonic drones. We see unmanned underwater vehicles. There are intercontinental ballistic missiles.

archived recording And here’s the last equipment formation. It features DF-41 nuclear missiles. The DF-41 is an intercontinental strategic nuclear missile. Its purpose is for both balancing power and securing victory.

javier hernández

You see thousands of soldiers come out holding the Chinese flag, and they’re walking down a huge red carpet. These columns of soldiers dressed in white and black and green, and they’re walking toward the center stage, where Xi Jinping is preparing to make a speech.

archived recording [“MARCH OF THE VOLUNTEERS”]

natalie kitroeff

And what happens as Xi Jinping takes the stage?

javier hernández

Well, there’s this moment where there’s an incredible resounding salute throughout the entire Tiananmen Square. I think it’s a 70-gun salute, and they welcome Xi Jinping to the stage. So he walks to the microphone wearing this dark Mao suit and looking rather solemn.

archived recording [MUSIC] archived recording (xi jinping) [SPEAKING MANDARIN]

javier hernández

So what I’m waiting for is to hear what he has to say about Hong Kong.

natalie kitroeff

Why? Why is that important?

javier hernández

Well, we’re now in the 17th consecutive week of protests in Hong Kong. They started back in June over opposition to a bill that would have allowed extraditions to mainland China, but since then, they’ve morphed and escalated into this broader fight for democracy and for civil liberties in Hong Kong. And throughout this period, there’s been one voice that’s been missing in all this, and that is the voice of Xi Jinping. And so this was a moment on this very important day where we thought Xi Jinping might finally offer more details about his thinking on Hong Kong or how the government might deal with this crisis.

archived recording (xi jinping) [SPEAKING MANDARIN]

javier hernández

It was clear what his message was, and it was that China would not back down. And even he himself said —

archived recording (xi jinping) [SPEAKING MANDARIN]

javier hernández

“No power can stop the progress of the Chinese people and the Chinese nation.”

archived recording (xi jinping) [SPEAKING MANDARIN]

natalie kitroeff

So I assume that message didn’t land well with the protesters in Hong Kong.

javier hernández

So we always knew there would be big protests on National Day in Hong Kong, but Xi Jinping’s remarks seemed to add to the deep anger that a lot of protesters felt. So I headed to Hong Kong to see what was happening on the ground.

archived recording (speaker 1) A lot of festivities lined up for the day, and we are really excited. As you see all the audience, their excitement is really infectious. So back to you, Zhou Yeh (ph). archived recording (speaker 2) All right, thank you very much, Sun Yeh (ph), for your reporting on the Tiananmen Square. And you are now watching a special coverage on the 70th anniversary of the People’s Republic of China. We’ll be back in a minute. [airport announcement]

javier hernández

So I landed in Hong Kong around 3:00 p.m., and it’s kind of eerie. It’s really quiet. And this is a week when a lot of mainlanders are on holiday, and they would typically come to a place like Hong Kong, but they’re not making that trip this year for obvious reasons. And so I go and walk through this empty airport.

javier hernández Hey, Kevin. How’s it going?

javier hernández

And find our bureau’s tech manager, Kevin Roche.

javier hernández So what do you got? kevin roche I’ve got the whole — javier hernández Should we go through it here? kevin roche Sure. javier hernández Why don’t we go over there?

javier hernández

And he gives me my equipment.

natalie kitroeff

What’s the equipment?

kevin roche O.K., let’s see. So there’s —

javier hernández

Well, he gives me a gas mask.

javier hernández And so it just straps on in the back there? kevin roche Yeah, just straps on right here, yeah.

javier hernández

A helmet, a first-aid kit.

kevin roche And this is a new kind of a full face mask that we just got a few of —

javier hernández

And a press vest, one of those bright yellow construction worker vests.

kevin roche So I think that’s everything you might need. There’s a bottle of water in there too.

natalie kitroeff

So right away upon landing, you’re preparing for this situation to become pretty dangerous.

javier hernández

Right. So the protests have been relatively peaceful, but there have been these cases where it quickly escalates, and certainly that’s picked up in the past couple of days.

javier hernández I’m at the airport now, and I’m checking my phone and seeing a lot of messages saying that there’s a pretty tense standoff in northern Hong Kong. And so I’m going to go check it out.

javier hernández

And so I headed out, got an Uber —

javier hernández Sorry, what did you say? speaker Hit cancel. javier hernández Oh, yes. Thank you. Thank you.

javier hernández

— and found my way to the protesters.

javier hernández Bye-bye.

natalie kitroeff

And what did you see?

javier hernández

In front of me, I could see black-clad protesters, and they were lighting fires. They were just creating chaos along this particular stretch.

javier hernández The scene is pretty chaotic. There are hundreds of protesters gathering around different stores that are believed to have a pro-Beijing stance, and they’re trying to vandalize the exterior, to loot the inside and take whatever they can.

natalie kitroeff

And so are you able to talk to any of them?

javier hernández

Yeah.

javier hernández How old are you? speaker I’m 17 years old. javier hernández And are you from Hong Kong? speaker Yes, I’m from Hong Kong. javier hernández O.K.

javier hernández

It was basically all young people, students at university and high school.

speaker Hong Kong people doesn’t want us to become the same like mainland China.

javier hernández

And I started to talk to them just about why they’d come out and how they felt about this National Day and the celebrations that were going on in Beijing.

speaker This is a kind of, like, birthday for the C.C.P., but for us, this is not a day that we’re celebrating. We’d like to tell the world in Hong Kong we’re facing a serious condition, that we need the world’s help.

javier hernández

They said Hong Kong is in crisis. They felt that Xi Jinping on this day should be listening more closely to their concerns and not standing in Beijing surrounded by soldiers at a military parade.

archived recording [SHOUTING]

natalie kitroeff

Are you asking any of them about the escalating violence?

javier hernández

Yeah, I asked them about that.

speaker We are not attacking everybody in the street. We’re not destroying without purpose. We have our objective. We know what we are doing. So yes, we are, like, somehow doing some — destroy something, but at the same time, establish something as well.

javier hernández

A lot of them seem to be not really bothered by it.

speaker I don’t think that’s violence, because all we destroy is some, maybe, public transport, which is an object, not a human being. So I don’t think that actually is violence, and that is kind of the way to express our demands.

javier hernández

And that’s a theme that we’ve seen repeatedly in these protests, that when it has escalated in these moments and when these protesters have hit the streets and destroyed subway stations and vandalized public property, they felt that the violence was actually necessary in order to gain the world’s attention.

javier hernández I just spoke with one of the young protesters who was setting fire to a subway station and breaking cameras and other things, and I was just asking him about what he says to those people who think that violence and more extreme tactics are undermining this movement. And his reaction was pretty much, I have to do this in order to show the police that I’m angry. They’re not going to listen otherwise.

natalie kitroeff

And in the meantime, it sounds like the situation around you is escalating.

javier hernández Yeah. So I look around. I’m feeling the tear gas in my eyes and on my skin, and more and more protesters are lighting fires and defacing the front of buildings.

javier hernández

And then I get news on my phone that the police have shot a teenage demonstrator, an 18-year-old high school student. And that’s the first time in months of protests that a live round was used against a protester. And so it’s very clear to me in that moment that this is going to be big news for the protesters and might change things. So videos start to circulate showing the protester being shot at very close range, and a lot of people are posting photos supposedly showing his being shot in the left shoulder and bleeding.

archived recording [SPEAKING CANTONESE]

javier hernández

And in these videos, he’s saying his name.

archived recording [SPEAKING CANTONESE]

javier hernández

At the same time, there’s also videos showing the protesters attacking the police. And so we reached this moment where these graphic photos are being shared, clearly inflaming the protesters, and the police are also firing back, defending their response. So at that moment, I remember this just rush of people coming toward me, almost like a stampede, and these protesters were running away from a crowd of about 30, 40 police officers all holding riot gear, shields and batons, and they were basically clearing the area. And so I run with the protesters and then find shelter and watch what happens from the side.

javier hernández So how do you feel about that, that this young man was shot with a live bullet? speaker It’s just — it’s not acceptable, you know?

javier hernández

People are livid.

speaker The police, they’re trying to kill them. They’re not trying to solve the problem. They just want to beat them up. They just want to — they just want to put them behind bars. They just want to kill them.

javier hernández

They tell me that the shooting of this teenager, for them, is a direct assault on everything that they believe in.

speaker They are barely armed with any weapon. They just got sticks and things, and the police got armors. They got body armors. They got guns, different kinds of guns. And they choose to rush in to shoot that student, and they have lots of nonlethal weapons, like pepper spray and things. He choose to use his pistol to shoot him at his chest. They’re not trying to stop anything. They’re not trying to stop the riot from happening. They are pushing them to riot.

javier hernández

And for a lot of them, it kind of makes them feel like they need to fight even harder.

speaker I feel just — we are angry. I feel angry, so we do that. You know what I’m saying? javier hernández Yeah. speaker O.K. javier hernández I understand. [sirens]

javier hernández

And so what I see on the ground is people rush back to the very same street where they were vandalizing and lighting fires and do the exact same thing all over again. It really is this moment where you feel like the anger is unleashed and prompting people to be much more aggressive than they ever would be.

speaker Yeah, we can’t give up.

natalie kitroeff

Javier, I’m struck that this scene in Hong Kong is such a stark contrast to the pageantry and the choreography of the parade in Beijing, and I wonder what you make of that.

javier hernández

I think this was their parade, in many ways. This was the message and the image that they wanted to be seen around the world. Their goal was really to overshadow whatever was happening in Beijing, and in many ways, they achieved that. This was a huge embarrassment for the Communist Party. It just reminded people that Hong Kong is chaotic, that it’s not under control, that Xi Jinping’s unassailable control and power is perhaps not as strong as it seems.

natalie kitroeff

What you seem to be saying is that there was a deliberate effort by the protesters to seize the narrative here on the National Day demonstration.

javier hernández

Exactly. They wanted to show the world that they control the narrative in Hong Kong. Of course, that’s a bit optimistic on their part, but in this moment, they felt that the only thing they could do was to go out on the streets to create chaos and to hope that the world would watch.

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javier hernández

And so when I talked to a lot of these protesters, they would point to the example of the United States or other countries in saying that the most important thing is to keep the pressure on China, and the only way to work with China is to test China and to push China, that becoming increasingly aggressive toward China, whether it’s through violence or other acts, is the only way that they can achieve their goal and sustain this movement.

natalie kitroeff

They feel like provoking China is their only option.

javier hernández

Right. For a lot of them, they see this as their last opportunity to stand up to Beijing, and they feel like if they don’t do it now, that China might attempt to destabilize and squash this movement entirely. And so before that happens, they want to stand up to Xi Jinping, to stand up to China, and to say, we’re going to fight and we’re going to try to attract the world’s attention to stop whatever might happen.

natalie kitroeff

Javier, thank you so much for staying up so late to talk to us.

javier hernández

Thank you.

natalie kitroeff

We’ll be right back.

michael barbaro