Let me tell you what I think is a funny story about drugs. We played at the Holyoke Arena with Woody Herman’s band on an afternoon concert, nine acts of vaudeville and they had on it a trained bear. The trained bear came out. This was a big bear. This guy had to be nine feet or something.

It was afternoon, Holyoke Arena, and the bear came out and the two on each side of Sam Marowitz, the lead alto player who was very straight-laced, no drugs, no drinking, were Serge, Zoot, Al Cohn and I, stoned.

The bear was doing his thing with the trainer, comes around. His arm goes … At one point, the bear came around and his arm went over the saxophone section like this and could’ve killed five guys at once. Only Sam Marowitz had to duck because the rest of us were sitting there reading the music with the bear and so stoned we never knew the bear came over us.

They used to claim that Woody’s band were faggots because we were so stoned we didn’t care to go for the women. There were no faggot on that band. Jazz music is a man’s game. Let’s face it.

Even when you were so much involved with both drugs and alcohol, you played well.

We played well all the time. You can do anything with practice. I’m sure we could’ve played better if we weren’t.

I’m a recovered alcoholic. I don’t do anything anymore, but those things, those things take away … You’re a different personality completely when you take those. For those who are really chemically dependent on anything, it’s not you. Of course, I’ve done some dastardly things, but what can I do except make amends and apologize? Since I stopped drinking, which is almost a year ago, I’ve started to feel like I’m a member of the world. I never was. I was so fucked up all my life.

I had a 10-year heroin habit and kicked that. Then I became an alcoholic. I drank two fifth’s a day.

What finally triggered this [crosstalk]

It’s just like they say at Alcoholics Anonymous. I was either and/or going insane or I was going to die. I was one of those guys who was in constant denial. Look, I work. I do my job. I support my family, boom. I do everything I was supposed to do. If I want a drink, fuck you, I’ll drink.

It’s a disease and it took me that long. It took me 45 years from the time I was 15 until I was now and I just wouldn’t believe it. I could drink. I’d get up there and play and I don’t remember. Most of my records I don’t remember making.

Do you enjoy playing in front of people, concerts, tours?

More and more these days when I’m alcohol-free now and even to see the world around me, I appreciate it, but I never truly enjoy too much of it maybe because I feel like I’m a working musician. There are some joyous moments, but I will not think a joyous moment. Hearing myself so much all the time, I don’t think I sound that special all the time because it’s me.

Do you get tired of being a musician at all or are there times when … ?

The day that I think I’ve got it done maybe I will until then, no. It’s different every night.