Jason M Waltz is the editor at Rogue Blades Entertainment, a company that focuses on action-driven Fantasy. His latest anthology is Death’s Sting—Where Art Thou? The book features Gothic Sword & Sorcery tales about immortals who return from Death, victorious over its sting—or horrifyingly despite! Inside this heroic anthology are stories featuring protagonists in the vein of Karl Edward Wagner’s Kane, Barry Sadler’s Casca, Steven Erikson’s Rhulad Sengar and Kallor, and Dennis O’Neil’s Rā’s al Ghūl. Dark tales of Death defeated, held at bay by willfulness, and desperately sought, its peace denied.

I talked with Jason about the book, Sword & Sorcery and all things immortal:

GW: You are obviously an old fan of Sword & Sorcery, or do you prefer the label Heroic Fantasy? How did you discover the sub-genre? What is your background as a fan and editor?

JMW: Who you calling old? I may have just passed half a century, but based on all the books in my to-be-read stacks (physical and digital!), I haven’t been around near long enough! Sword & Sorcery/Heroic Fantasy. I love the term Heroic Fantasy. It conjures images I can easily get lost in, but there’s no time to reminisce. Heroic Fantasy covers a lot of ground that S&S fits nicely into. The HF spectrum is anchored on one end by J. R. R. Tolkien’s The Lord of the Rings and on the other by Robert E. Howard. Yep, by REH himself, not any particular one of his creations. I suppose we could say that’s true of JRRT as well, since he’s the foundation so much of the ‘epic’ and ‘party/team’ side of HF, but REH…yeah, REH was an elemental force that’s still surging and the ripples of his impact across heroics and heroic entertainment will continue until Man is no more. BUT! The distance between JRRT and REH is not near as much as many may think. It’s about — that far. Maybe —, definitely not —-. Now, what was the question?

Ah, right. Preference only matters in specifics, so I use Heroic Fantasy across most all genre discussions, sometimes interchangeable with Sword & Sorcery, but I use S&S when specifically referring to that particular tone of heroic storytelling. And that’s what S&S is for me: a tone. If it has the tone it’s S&S; if it lacks that tone it is not. How did I find my way to S&S? Via a long Heroic Journey: Alexandre Dumas, Westerns, Tarzan, LOTR/Narnia, Jack London, Nathaniel Hawthorn, cloak-and-dagger. Unfortunately I did not discover Noir or any of the hard-boiled crime thrillers until adulthood, but those would have contributed. I’ve tended to most connect with the loner, the guy who holds loyalty dear, but can stand and walk alone, and most often does, though he’s not against traveling companions. So Dumas, Louis L’Amour, and Edgar Rice Burroughs are probably the three most influential authors in my life.

As for further background, I also came late to the Jack Vance and Robert Silverberg interpretations of HF or S&S . . . and I don’t much enjoy them. Vance is a great storyteller, but the farcical nature of their tales with the annoyingly odd naming patterns always toss me out of their stories. I’m not against humor in my bloody stories, but I’m not fond of humorous bloody stories. Karl Edward Wagner’s Kane is probably my most favorite S&S (though as I understand it, Wagner said Kane was not a S&S character, so I’ll say Gothic) character, though just barely edging out Conan. And I’d rather fight at Conan’s side than Kane’s, so there is that. As a reader I cover a lot of ground. As a writer, my first novel attempt was a Western (and I think it’s still the longest piece I’ve ever accomplished despite remaining unfinished), but since then I’ve written fantastical pieces, several novels started, dozens of shorts started, some completed, fewer submitted, even less accepted, and only two published besides my own short ebook containing two stories of Direk, my man whom I’ve an entire 4 book series and half-a-dozen shorts plotted out for that yet remain solely in my head and in some chicken scratches. If you’d care to, please take a look at him and drop a review https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DO1ZAQK

And finally, my background in editing. Let’s get this out there up front: I am not a classically trained/educated editor. Never considered being an editor, though I was ‘the’ star English student throughout school as far back as I can recall, and often, ahem, ‘co-wrote’ the schoolwork of friends. (Also found out late in life that I could have made money doing that! Arrrghh.) And as evidenced by my long sentences, I often overdid, over achieved I think they called it, and turned in more/longer work than required. Even once had a teacher tell me to stop working on my semester-long history paper and turn it in as-was . . . at about halfway written it was already 20 pages over the maximum in the syllabus . . . still scored an A-. Anyway, way back in 2003 I joined a little ol’ hole in the wall on the Internet named SFReader. If you have ever appreciated a thing I have done in the HF/S&S world, through RBE or not, y’all owe gratitude to SFReader. That is the instigator of all that I/RBE (and now RBF) are in this reading/writing/publishing world. I owe many friendships, many lessons learned, and many decisions to my SFReader experience. Cutting what could be a very long story short, the ezine Flashing Swords! was about to fold and was looking for someone to take over. I was so in love with this new-to-me world I’d discovered in SFReader that, after pondering it for a few days, I decided to accept the challenge. I learned another person had already that same day agreed to take the ezine over, so I talked with that person and next thing we knew, we were running the thing together in 2005. I had been doing some slush reading for others, then co-edited the startup ezine Staffs & Starships, actually being the fantasy selection editor, prior to this

Art by M. D. Jackson

decision. At least I went into running Flashing Swords! with someone who’d been around and doing editing and publishing for awhile. I slowly grew through slush reading to selection editing to actual editing to expanding from ezine to books. Then in 2008, right after introducing Rage of the Behemoth and landing some authors to include Andy Offutt and Richard K. Lyon (on what turned out to be their final collaboration), I was given the opportunity to take over the book publishing side of things on my own. That was an out-of-the-blue idea I’d never considered, but I wanted to see this new book in the hands of readers, so I accepted and founded Rogue Blades Entertainment and here we are today. I have adopted my own editing techniques, most of which are still ‘proper,’ but I do have my own eccentricities (for example, I omit the period on my middle initial intentionally), one of which I am rather proud, in that I allow my authors creativity in word creation and usage — if it fits and makes sense, I allow it — and I’m in favor of the use of creative expression if that is part of the story, evidenced by my publication of Phil Emery’s “The Last Scream of Carnage” in Return of the Sword. And this is probably the longest answer you’ve ever had to the opening question in an interview. We may be able to answer all of the remaining questions by saying ‘see above.’ 🙂

GW: J. R. R. Tolkien casts a pretty big shadow. How do you see the interaction between the Robert E. Howard crowd versus the Tolkien Epic Fantasy bunch?

JMW: I covered a little bit of the JRRT-REH relation above so I won’t repeat that. I agree, JRRT’s shadow is large, huge in fact, but I don’t think it’s deep or rather very dark. And I think REH casts his own very large shadow, it’s just not as readily seen and acknowledged as JRRT’s. I think much of modern heroic entertainment (from books to video and board and roleplaying games to movies and television to WWE/F to musicians) owes allegiance to REH whether they themselves know it or not. JRRT’s ‘Epic Fantasy Bunch’ allows us companionship which in turn grants us banter, relationship ethics, choice comparisons, personal losses, etc., really able to draw us in emotionally. REH’s ‘Low Fantasy Loners’ (for counterpoint) allows us to BE, to assume the identity of our protagonist. It’s why, at least for me, reading The Batman is ultimately more enjoyable than reading the JLA, which includes The Batman, but his role is tweaked, etc., etc. (Let’s avoid that sidetrail, back to task.) I think REH characters can interact in JRRT worlds and tales but if they want to, and only for so long as they want to; I don’t think JRRT characters would even want to interact in REH worlds and tales, and if somehow they were entered into them, they’d quickly extract themselves. So just like S&S is a subset of HF, in a way, REH’s HF is a subset of JRRT’s HF. Conan could be Aragorn, and I think he’d play that role very well indeed, but with his flavor, his S&S tone in an Epic tale; Aragorn could take a stab at being Conan, but I think he’d quickly tire of it and not play that role but convert it to something entirely different … not bad, just different, thus making it not S&S. (Speaking of S&S in an Epic tale, that is the style in which I believe Steven Erikson writes, and one of the reasons I so adore his Malazan Book of the Fallen. (And there, I did it; I always find a way to insert the MBOTF.)

GW: With Death’s Sting—Where Art Thou? is there more of Horror fiction vibe? Immortality sounds tempting but would we really want to live forever? Without falling into a discussion of vampires, what do these Wandering Jews of Fantasy offer the reader that mortal fighters do not?

JMW: Absolutely. Death, immortality, fighting or embracing either — that’s all horrific to some extent. Not all–most, but not all–HF has to contain some aspect of Horror, and S&S pretty much must include it to truly be S&S. So yes, there better be a vibe of horror in each of these tales — let me know if it’s missing from any of them. As for immortality — I’m uncertain. It would take getting used to, that’s for certain 😉 Here’s something for you: I’ve learned something new in this question. I don’t recollect ever seeing that term before, the ‘Wandering Jew,’ and here it’s been around all along and I’ve read numerous versions of the character, from Kane to Casca and so on. So there’s a reason to embrace immortality — the embrace of knowledge. And the ability to eat a 2 lb bacon cheeseburger every day of my life. Seriously though, I don’t know how I’d respond if offered the once-in-a-lifetime chance to become immortal. Currently, and I’ve told my daughters for years, I want to live as long as my brain and eyes work, so even if it’s in a jar on the kitchen counter, I’ve implored them to keep me around 🙂

As for the reader, an immortal protagonist cannot be overused. While I wish there were more Kane tales, it is perhaps better there are not. If the ‘hero’ of the tale is never in jeopardy, especially of sacrificing the most dear possession of all, and especially in a S&S/HF tale, where’s the appeal? The connection to keep returning to his/her tales? I mean, we mostly know Conan will always prevail, but we don’t truly know he will. There is the chance his most recent fight with a spawn of the Outer Dark or a gargantuan reptile or a trained strangler will be his last, will result in his final breath. But if we know that, no matter how dire the situation and dark the story, he cannot, will not lose his life and return right as rain in the next, the tension vanishes, the stakes lessen, the emotional appeal weakens. (I will never forget my shock and absolute horror at the close of Max Brand’s The Seventh Man, when one of my ultimate heroes was [SORRY, SPOILER:] slain by his loving wife of all people! I feel about that moment the way people tell me they felt about JFK’s assassination, which predates me, so I have no attachment to it whatsoever.) So why write of immortal characters then? There’s the challenge, of course, of making your reader feel tension and emotional connection. There’s also the ability to explore some particular thread of interest, be it how one would react to being cursed with eternal life or how one responds to jumping repeatedly through the souls/lives/bodies of others or what it would actually be like to offer oneself up as a living host to an eternal entity. But that’s more on the author’s side of things; what about the reader, as you asked? An immortal character, while s/he will always return, brings the reader consistency, so there is comfort in knowing my hero is back and the world he/she inhabits continues, but s/he also gives me danger in that — since s/he cannot lose life, what can and will s/he lose this time ‘round? As reader I can explore with the author whatever the question of that tale is, from trying to undo eternity to trying to fix reality to running and hiding, whatever it may be. A collection of short stories, like in Death’s Sting, exploring many of the facets of immortality, offers a nice compact experience for the reader; I think this new RBE release is just the right quantity in words and stories, not too much to overdo it, and not too many angles, new or repeated, so it is an enjoyable read . . . so long as you enjoy horrific, Sword & Sorcery style Heroic Fantasy adventures.

GW: In Writing Fantasy Heroes, a book you edited, in the Afterword you talk about creating heroes: “Doing so uplifts us and binds us as a people, for we innately need each other to share these stories of admirable individuals with motivations and deeds that all of us can aspire to.” Is that really why people read Conan or Elric or any of the darker heroes like Kane? What of the anti-heroes?

JMW: First I’m going to attack ‘anti-hero,’ a label grossly misused and tossed about with abandon. I believe it is imperative to retain distinction here, as be not doing so we essentially eliminate a type of hero that shouldn’t be ignored and casually lump together two, even three, types of characters who aren’t generally heroes but do/can do heroic things. So, of course we have our ‘hero’ – the character who looks, acts, is heroic: Jack Bauer. Then we have the original meaning of the ‘anti-hero’ – the character who does not look heroic, is not typically considered heroic or even of being able to be heroic, but tries to be and occasionally stumbles into being heroic: Charlie Brown. And then we have the descriptive term that seems to be vanishing (Why? I don’t know, perhaps it’s too difficult to say so many words?) of what most mean when they misuse ‘anti-hero,’ and instead mean ‘Lord Byronic hero’ or ‘Byronic hero’ – the character who is not heroic in intention despite looking like/filling the role of the hero, who does what s/he does for self-betterment first and foremost, and if heroics result accepts the praise thereof: Lex Luthor. Of course there’s overlap, and some of the best heroic figures are composed of such combinations (Clark Kent/Superman is an obvious anti-hero/hero, while Conan is a hero/Byronic hero mashup).

So, do people come to heroes – of all stripes – to find “admirable individuals with motivations and deeds that all of us can aspire to”? I think, for the most part, yes. We all want heroes, to know them, to talk about them, to find them, some to be them, at least in some small way to those that matter to us. And I think a lot of people are heroic and don’t give themselves the credit for being so, but are looking to find what it is they internally identify with, and some are fortunate enough to find it in fictional characters. Not everything about The Batman or Conan is admirable, but both have motivations and commit deeds worthy of emulation, even adoration, and thus committing to memory and so binding us as a people. People are always in different circumstances, even as simple as aging, and experiencing different dreams or desires, so those aspirations, motivations, characters, and deeds that bind or encourage or uplift will and do change, but yes, I’ll stand by my Afterword words 🙂

GW: In your bio you said: “He is an ardent fan of heroic tales and founded Rogue Blades Entertainment with the goal of delivering action adventure with an Extreme Edge.” Has modern Fantasy fiction lost its edge? Does the short story format offer some unique opportunities for more excitement?

JMW: I do think a lot of fantasy – at least what I’ve read or even taken the time to look over – has lost or dulled the dangerous edge. Nowadays folks seem to go more for pretend edginess, pushing lines more for shock value or to see how far out of the sensibilities they can step than for true thrilling adventurous storytelling. Like the differences found in horror flicks today — psychological horror versus slasher films. I’m looking for dark and dangerous stories that have some horror and possibly some slashing in them, not for stories that darkness is the plot and they have no story to tell other than lots of horrific and horrible slashing happens. As populations and technology and the two together have expanded, areas of the unknown have shrunk to vanishing points, and understanding that there are only essentially 5 stories to be told, I realize that telling stories today is much more challenging than in the times of Beowulf and Jules Verne. The sheer mass of humans churning out stories is astounding, and the odds each story, even each adventure story, even each fantastical adventure story, is exciting and edgy are astronomically high. Mankind began sharing stories of importance, of things and persons they wanted to remember, of lessons learned and ideals personified. The more exciting the story the more memorable; the more intellectually or emotionally stimulating the more understood, embraced, and retold; the more connected to the protagonist the more those learning the story wanted more of that hero.

Short stories should offer tighter, more continual excitement. They don’t hold enough room for side-treks, history, internal conflicts, often even speculations. Short stories are more decisive, more oriented toward achieving now. It’s like the difference between decision-making and doing: everyone always lauds decision-makers, but how many of those decision-makers actually act on their decisions? We should be lauding and emulating doers/actors, not simple deciders. I’ve worked for enough of them to no longer be impressed by the ability to make a decision. Deciding without doing is as bad as never deciding because neither achieves a damn thing. Anyway, lol, to answer your question, short stories do offer more and typically instant excitement. Longer fiction can offer loads of excitement, but it is not usually continuous. I read long fiction for investment, for the fun of exploration, and to continue my personal conversation with whichever character I enjoy most. I read short stories for power punches, for adrenaline shots, for snippets in a character’s life of adventure, for another look into a special world or plot. On the whole, Robert E. Howard’s version of Heroic Fantasy delivers more in shorter fiction, while Tolkien’s side of the coin delivers more in long stories.

GW: Robert E. Howard was a master at sketching background while keeping the story moving. Tolkien built much denser mythologies but there is a reason why Mervyn Peake called him “that old windbag”. As an editor are you more interested in action over world building? What do you see as the perfect blend?

JMW: I do not believe JRRT would have seen publication today. Certainly not the LOTR we know. I believe without a doubt REH would be publishing nonstop today. What’s the difference? Who they’re writing to, for the most part; then whatever it is they’re trying to say. JRRT was intentionally telling readers his version of Something Important. While I think REH did intentionally tell readers some things, not every one of his works and not the entirety of his work intentionally tells us anything other than — live life passionately, large and with gusto, until we die, and then do that with panache. 🙂 For RBE, what I’m after is action, then character, then plot, then world. I mean, I state that pretty much right on our Submissions Page, the three things I and my reading team evaluate stories by: RBE’s three most important values when reading your submission:

●Does it deliver quality heroic adventure?

●Does it deliver on the theme?

●Does the storytelling regale?

So you see, it’s all about the heroes first and foremost. They can certainly be in and adventure through some rather cool worlds, but I’m not looking for them. The key is keeping me in your world, so don’t toss me sideways by writing your hero through Byzantium yet letting him prattle on about his weekend bender at the local disco. Keep me in your world and it doesn’t matter much. Our last criteria, that regaling bit — that’s where JRRT would most likely get the boot, if he hadn’t already under the first adventuring bit. To “storytell” means to engage me in a story worthy of the telling, and to regale means to dramatically excite me about your telling that tale. So if you pontificate on the colors of the undersides of the rare foliage in your hero’s dash through the woods or if you misuse/misspell or otherwise obliterate the language of storytelling so that I can no longer hear the tale for all the times you’ve bounced me out of it, well then, I’m afraid you’re neither regaling me nor telling me a story all wrapped in wonder and thunder and I’m out. Difference between Zane Grey and Max Brand; the former told great stories, but once I found the latter I never read another Grey novel. Give me all the formulaic repetitive but exciting stories you want over 12 pages of the purple sage any day.

GW: Rogue Blades has published quite a few books over the years. How is Death’s Sting—Where Art Thou? different from previous volumes?

JMW: Death’s Sting–Where Art Thou? brings RBE a little bit back to its S&S roots. I’ve always wanted RBE to be the home of all heroic genres though rooted in S&S-like storytelling. That’s why I chose to use ‘Blades’ in our name and a logo with a barbarian with clashing swords above his head. I’ve adjust the logo now to concentrate on those clashing swords and the flash of light bursting from their meeting to emphasize that RBE is about powerful, exciting, extreme stories now, and all of them, not just the low fantasy or barbaric the old logo indicated. I’m going to try to maintain a pace of getting themed anthologies out across the broad spectrum of heroic adventure. Return of the Sword was for the most part S&S; Rage of the Behemoth was Heroic Fantasy, with some S&S; Demons: A Clash of Steel (and the entire Clash of Steel line, which will be returning) is all about that clashing swords, so these are mostly S&S but definitely Heroic Low Fantasy; Challenge! Discovery was our first offering that allowed for branching out into non-fantasy genres of the heroic; Writing Fantasy Heroes was all about itself, the fantasy bit being obvious by the list of contributing names, yet also not being specific to S&S or REH or Low Fantasy heroes (Take ‘fantasy’ out of the title and you could give it to a non-fantasy reader and they’d still gain insight in how heroes are created.).

In 2018, in reviving RBE’s publishing, I decided to open the floodgates and no longer dawdle in getting to more heroics: Crazy Town is our first look at fantasy in an urban setting, in a more modern/futuristic setting, and in the hardboiled world of Noir; Crossbones & Crosses is the first historical swashbuckler and first book without a trace of fantasy RBE’s done, and it was loads of fun. There are more of those to come: As You Wish! (the former Somebody Kill the Prince! and Mostly Dead!) is RBE’s first homage title and my first attempt at having an entirely family-friendly title (I’ve always said RBE’s books are for 13 to 113 year olds, but this time I wanted a book for all ages.); Death’s Sting is S&S in nature and intent but not in requirement, though I’d say the contents are pretty dang close to all being S&S (I’ll leave that to the reviewers to say). SLaughter is the Best Medicine is a title I’ve long held in mind. It just needed the right time, as I’ve already said, humor in my heroic adventures must be done with a deft touch. We’ll see what the reviewers say about that one too. And then Reach for the Sky is RBE’s first Western-ish, definitely Weird Western. I wanted to bring in the Weird West vibe but without the overly used zombies and vampires and such. There is a true Old West anthology yet to come though, see if RBE can publish some stories like those that set me on my path so long ago. And then this year’s open calls (which kick off March 1st) include RBE’s first superhero anthology (No Ordinary Mortals) and finally returns us home to true S&S with We Who Are About to Die, a book examining heroic sacrifice as story told through any of the Sword-and- genres. Death’s Sting brought back a taste of S&S while approaching it from that immortal protagonists point of view, which again, was a new twist to expand RBE’s catalogue. I want readers who enjoy heroics, most especially Heroic Fantasy though, to think of RBE first when they want a new read. Themed anthologies deliver exciting storytelling, extreme heroes, and the opportunity for the reader to discover multitudes of authors. In the future, RBE will most likely always include a S&S-themed call each year.

GW: What’s next for Jason M Waltz and Rogue Blades Entertainment?

JMW: Well, I think I’ve plugged pretty much every RBE title, and even my own small work way back at the beginning. I’m going to use this spot to plug RBE’s sister organization founded in October 2019, RBF = Rogue Blades Foundation. RBF is a literary nonprofit (yes, that means we can accept donations that you can claim as tax-deductible in the US) with parallel mission to RBE – putting heroic literature into the hands of readers around the globe. RBF believes that bringing heroes to readers helps generate community and helps mentor our future leaders. RBF will be publishing larger-purposed projects that expand concepts of heroics, promote all the varieties of heroic storytelling, and pursues examinations of all that is heroic. We have two titles appearing in 2020, the first Scott Oden Presents: The Lost Empire of Sol, which is a Sword and Planet shared world anthology that reintroduces the glorious days of the ‘romantic tales of high adventure’ mostly forgotten today, often for being too naive or even silly. This anthology of grand space-faring adventures reminds us as being marvels to readers a century ago, but is brought forward in time for a more modern audience desirous of those old thrills with a new edge. This title also brings back the fun of a shared world anthology–who knows, there may be a sequel or branchout novels?

The other title RBF publishes this year is a huge project, the largest scale title I’ve ever been involved with let alone helmed: ROBERT E. HOWARD CHANGED MY LIFE. This book has been in the making since June of 2018 and it will be presented to the public in June of 2020 at the annual Howard Days in Cross Plains, Texas. Thirty-two contributors share personal stories of how Howard and his characters directly impacted their lives. There are quite the range of life changes, from careers to educations to maturity to understanding and lots and lots of relationships, from better connections with the self to the past and to the future. I’ve been quite honored to read each essay as it was submitted to me, and I am certain that there is no other book quite like this, especially within the Robert E. Howard studies. I don’t think it possible for anyone who reads REH Changed My Life to be disappointed or even unimpressed.

Hey, GW, thank you very much for allowing me to prattle on so long. Much thanks also for hosting this week-long party of all that is RBE and Death’s Sting. If you enjoy S&S and/or RBE titles, pickup this newest release and please – post reviews, it makes all the difference.

GW: Thanks for letting us listen.