Beastyqt Profile Blog Joined September 2010 Serbia 514 Posts Last Edited: 2012-02-04 14:50:41 #1

I dont think every tournament in world is going to follow me and change their map pool, but this is just map review from at least one player about maps and if there are any tournament admins that just dont know which maps to use - hopefully this will help you. I will go over each map that is being played now in tournaments or new maps that I feel that should be used or at least give it a go



Just to make it clear all maps that are 4 player maps should be cross position only in my opinion to prevent spawn imbalances and of course no gold bases on any map



We need our tournament map pool to be updated constantly!



1) Xel'Naga Caverns

+ Show Spoiler +

Xel'naga, I dont think there is a person that likes this map anymore, its too small, terran gets too strong with gold PF and it just makes people allin each other no matter what matchup is - natural is hard to defend and going in macro game is impossible! It was good map long time ago, but there is no meaning to play this map anymore NO!



2) Crossfire SE

+ Show Spoiler +

This map might have worked in BW but SC2 is different game, even tho its rarely used in tournaments it should not be used, I have never seen this map go on 4 base and very rarely 3 base, burrowed banelings are too strong on this map, tanks, forcefields and any aoe spell because of all the ramps that are on map. 3rd base is extremely hard to take vs zerg and whichever matchup is played, it ends up being either 1 or 2 base allin push simply because its impossible to play macro game here. In PvZ it makes zergs go muta because fighting with roaches here is really useless and it makes protoss do 2 base allins all the time. NO!



3) iCCup Testbug

+ Show Spoiler +

Testbug at first looks very good, but the map itself is played out weird, the moment you take 3rd it leaves you very open as P or T and protoss players have been complaining about this map in general and always veto it vs zerg or terran. Whole middle space is too open for P and T which is why its considered as zerg favored map with many expos that are really close to each other. If one whole race veto's it always, there is problem with map, gets NO from me.



4) Tal'darim Altar LE

+ Show Spoiler + File:Tal'Darim Altar.jpg File:Tal'Darim Altar.jpg

Tal'darim is map with most potential to become best map if only one thing would be fixed and that is to make 4th and 5th base easier to take as P and T, especially in TvZ. Overall map is big, it usually opens with FE, you CAN do 2 base allins but you dont need to and you can go into macro games, it allows drops, mutalisk harass and overall its one of the maps that gives most epic games in SC2 and should be played in tournaments, YES!



5) Shattered Temple

+ Show Spoiler +

Shattered temple is a map that you can lose to very cheesy stuff, no matter the matchup, since the map is small it gives you almost no time to react to what your opponent is doing and 2 rax is too strong on this map in TvZ, as well as 6gate from protoss because of small rush distance. I like how the map is made in general, good number of expos but I feel map should just be bigger and it will make the map itself much better. But atm NO from me, we need big maps and new maps to improve quality of SC2 games, shattered is old and small and thus doesnt fit



6) Shakuras Plateau

+ Show Spoiler +

I know first things people will think is this map should be removed because of TvZ late game, is Shakuras good in TvZ late game for T? sure it is, is tal'darim bad for T after 4 base? sure it is, every map has its yay and nay. Shakuras has given me one of most epic games I had and games that were played on LAN's that I watched, there are good number of expos, very easy natural to take, 3rd is close to your base and once you get 4th you can easily secude 5th and 6th base. One of my favorite maps and map that is picked by all 3 races often and it almost always goes into a macro game, YES!



7)Dual Sight

+ Show Spoiler +

Dual Sight is one of the maps that I really dislike in current tournament map pool (or some of them). Natural reminds me of less terrible xel naga and even your 3rd base is very hard to take, not to mention taking 4th and 5th base as P or T vs Z. Whole middle area is sooooooooooooooo wide open and map pushes players to base trade very often as soon your opponent moves out, even defending here is hard because you are spread out so much. NO please.



8)Bel'shir Beach Winter

+ Show Spoiler +

Even tho picture is normal Bel'shir im talking about winter one since tournaments use that one. Bel'shir is used now in so many tournaments map pool but I almost never play it due to players always vetoing, the only race that doesnt veto it sometimes are zergs. Im not if this is sure because everyone dislikes map or just because they didnt practise on it. Flaw of this map I feel like is there are many paths to each base, so you cant really put your army on 2 places and defend everything when you are on 3-4-5 bases, so sometimes defending attacks from couple of sides can be real pain here which I know is the reason why a lot of protosses are vetoing it either playing vs zerg or terran, but then again so many people veto it that I havent played or seen enough games on it. Its unexplored I think, MAYBE!



9)Daybreak

+ Show Spoiler +

I think maps like Daybreak are maps of the future and how maps will look like in pro play in couple of years. It has good number of expos, its big but not by its size, but how the terrain is made. Even tho it had 3 path ways on middle its a lot easier to hold expos than on Bel'shir beach just because how map is made, not because of its size. Its very easy fast expand, semi-easy to take 3rd but at same time you have to be careful (not like terminus for example) which is good for games, its very hard to pull off 2 base allins here but still possible which usually results in big macro games, YES!



10)Xel Naga Fortress

+ Show Spoiler +

There are so many things wrong about this map so i'll just say a big NO!



11)Antiga Shipyard

+ Show Spoiler +

I feel like this is smaller and better version of terminus, its not better because its smaller but how its layed out, your 3rd IS safe but its not as safe as terminus one and you still have to be careful for 2 base allins, but if you play it out just right (which most players do) you will be able to safely take your 3rd base. A lot of people are saying this map is big problem for zerg in TvZ, but on Korean server players are saying that Antiga is better for zerg than terran. I think this map is played out in a way that you usually fight for control over middle (in any matchup) and from there you take out enemy bases on sides while getting yours up and map is making players play differently than on other maps which is always interesting in my opinion. I think (dont have numbers on this) that this is most played map atm so YES!



12)Metalopolis

+ Show Spoiler +

Ahh good old meta, once very loved map, but every time new map comes out I think a lot of players dislike meta more and more, why? I'll look at 3 matchups and try to explain which are PvZ, TvZ and TvP since mirrors balance talk is useless ^^ Protosses dislike meta vs good and aggressive zergs because its almost impossible to get 3rd base and even the forge FE itself you will almost always die to zerg allins. TvZ again is hard to get 3rd base up, sure you can PF it but PF doesnt solve everything, defending mutas can be extremely hard depending on spawn positions and its fairly easy for zerg to cover map with creep and get many expos, meta is the map i really started disliking lately and almost always veto it. Last matchup is TvP which in i'd say 70% of games ends on allins because natural is too wide open for any "safe" play, you need 3-4 bunkers to cover natural and scv + mass bio allin with medivacs can be hard due to not being able to forcefield whole natural, this was good map back in the day, but game changed and maps need to change as well, NO!



13)Terminus

+ Show Spoiler +

Just to make it clear, talking about Terminus with no enterance to 3rd base and with rocks on 3rd with 2 gases and 8 mineral patch base. I havent seen many games in PvZ on this map so I wont talk about it. I think both TvZ and TvP this map ends in heavy macro way but you can still be aggressive even tho being aggressive on this map is harder than others its still possible. Yes there is only 1 path of attack but mutas and drops become very strong if your opponent is greedy and double expos, or simple 2 base allin on front can work sometimes if executed well. There are plenty of expos on map for long games, good "base transition" from 3rd to 4th into 5th base and once you secure 4th and 5th (on middle) you "open" another 3 bases in other main to take for yourself which is very good because a lot of maps lack this "base transition" in the current map pool. Terminus like I said already is bigger version of Antiga, like Antiga it starts turtly (usually) but it almost always ends up in big macro game which a lot of people like. Having 1-2 maps like Antiga or Terminus in map pool is very good because it gives different kind of playstyle, YES!



14)Crevasse

+ Show Spoiler +

Yes yes yes, I do know this map is pretty good for terran, but at same time I feel this is GSL map that was played and tested the least in tournament plays, once it came out it was TERRAN MAP and people just vetoed it all the time and I think half of them werent even trying to make new strategies and see what they can do with rich gas on in-base natural. The only player I saw that tested with this and played very good on it is Dimaga when he took in-base natural rich gas and played only with it for 13min getting all upgrades going and then taking 4 gases same time (main and 3rd) while having such a good economy while having all the upgrades going only with 3 drones on gas. Even tho this map has 3 "safe expos" I think is very different from Terminus and Antiga and it should be played different. My opinion is that its still unexplored and some maps should have rich gas because it will make new strats in game in any matchup, MAYBE!



15)Calm Before the Storm

+ Show Spoiler +

I think this is the only map that I would say that is not only good for protoss but its just too good for protoss, like xel naga was for terran in TvZ. Map is pretty much safe 3 bases, map is so big even 2 base allins once they move out from base you got a lot of time to react to it making 2 base allins almost impossible. Zergs and terrans try to end this on 3 base vs protoss because the longer the game goes, the stronger warpins become on this map due to it huge size. Both zerg and terran have hard time holding expos vs protoss, warp prism mass zealot warpin is very good for denying zerg bases and stalkers vs terran. When eventually fight happends protoss can always warpin units in fight while terran and zerg have to produce from their mains and long distance just gives protoss too much time to recover. I feel this map would be really good..if supplies were set to 300 max or maybe just SC2 isnt ready for it and we should wait for HoTS. One way of "fixing" this map would be making it just little bit smaller or putting expo closer to middle so you can "base transition" without being denied super easy. I talked with some Korean players about it and all terrans really dislike this map and in PvZ its almost impossible to attack protoss while they turtle. NO!



16)Entombed Valley

+ Show Spoiler +

I think this is one rare map thats good and at same time made by blizzard! Close positions need to be removed here (like antiga) and to be put only cross and you got amazing map and I think this map will become very popular (if it isnt already). Only complaint I have for this map is that the main base, natural and 3rd are too small - you actually dont have space to build buildings and would like if someone made it better by making bases bigger. This map like Antiga has watchtower on mid to control path to your enemy but its not the only path where you can attack, plenty of expos and good expo transitions as well, YES!



17)Arid Plateau



No picture needed we all know its bad, Xel naga in the desert, NO!



18)Cloud Kingdom

+ Show Spoiler +

I like how the map is made with paths and expansions only thing I dislike like Entombed valley is too small main base followed by small natural which leaves you with no places to build stuff and I feel middle should be little bigger, feels like small map somehow even tho its 2 players map, but overall map is new, different and I like it, YES!



19)Metropolis

+ Show Spoiler +

I think that Metropolis will make the games very camp style with both players taking 5 bases then trying to take those 2 in middle and 2 islands, im not too sure how I feel about that, something should be changed in order to prevent that, maybe make it 2 player map with only cross spots and change the "other main on your side" somehow to avoid splitting map? Im not saying map is bad, I still like it and its far better than metalopolis in my opinion even tho they are...very similar in many ways Its new, I dont feel its tested enough but I still think it should be played, even if the map forces "campy" games its different than others, YES!



















YES: Shakuras Plateau, Tal'darim Altar LE, Daybreak, Antiga Shipyard, Terminus, Entombed Valley, Cloud Kingdom, Metropolis,



MAYBE: Bel'shir Beach Winter, Crevasse,



NO: Xel'naga Caverns, Crossfire SE, iCCup Testbug, Shattered Temple, Dual Sight, Xel Naga Fortress, Metalopolis, Calm Before the Storm, Arid Plateau,



Tell me how you like overview so far and which maps you would like to see discussed in future!



EDIT: And im pretty happy everyone disagrees with only one or two maps - thats pretty good since every tournament has vetos and you can remove maps you dont like and of course everyone has their own opinion about every map.



Hi all, I wanted to make this thread for a while now and its about map pool in tournaments - LAN's or online cups and which maps "should" be in map pool and which should NOT be, either because of imbalance or just bad maps in general.I dont think every tournament in world is going to follow me and change their map pool, but this is just map review from at least one player about maps and if there are any tournament admins that just dont know which maps to use - hopefully this will help you. I will go over each map that is being played now in tournaments or new maps that I feel that should be used or at least give it a goJust to make it clear all maps that are 4 player maps should be cross position only in my opinion to prevent spawn imbalances and of course no gold bases on any mapWe need our tournament map pool to be updated constantly!1)Xel'naga, I dont think there is a person that likes this map anymore, its too small, terran gets too strong with gold PF and it just makes people allin each other no matter what matchup is - natural is hard to defend and going in macro game is impossible! It was good map long time ago, but there is no meaning to play this map anymore2)This map might have worked in BW but SC2 is different game, even tho its rarely used in tournaments it should not be used, I have never seen this map go on 4 base and very rarely 3 base, burrowed banelings are too strong on this map, tanks, forcefields and any aoe spell because of all the ramps that are on map. 3rd base is extremely hard to take vs zerg and whichever matchup is played, it ends up being either 1 or 2 base allin push simply because its impossible to play macro game here. In PvZ it makes zergs go muta because fighting with roaches here is really uselessand it makes protoss do 2 base allins all the time.3)Testbug at first looks very good, but the map itself is played out weird, the moment you take 3rd it leaves you very open as P or T and protoss players have been complaining about this map in general and always veto it vs zerg or terran. Whole middle space is too open for P and T which is why its considered as zerg favored map with many expos that are really close to each other. If one whole race veto's it always, there is problem with map, getsfrom me.4)Tal'darim is map with most potential to become best map if only one thing would be fixed and that is to make 4th and 5th base easier to take as P and T, especially in TvZ. Overall map is big, it usually opens with FE, you CAN do 2 base allins but you dont need to and you can go into macro games, it allows drops, mutalisk harass and overall its one of the maps that gives most epic games in SC2 and should be played in tournaments,5)Shattered temple is a map that you can lose to very cheesy stuff, no matter the matchup, since the map is small it gives you almost no time to react to what your opponent is doing and 2 rax is too strong on this map in TvZ, as well as 6gate from protoss because of small rush distance. I like how the map is made in general, good number of expos but I feel map should just be bigger and it will make the map itself much better. But atmfrom me, we need big maps and new maps to improve quality of SC2 games, shattered is old and small and thus doesnt fit6)I know first things people will think is this map should be removed because of TvZ late game, is Shakuras good in TvZ late game for T? sure it is, is tal'darim bad for T after 4 base? sure it is, every map has its yay and nay. Shakuras has given me one of most epic games I had and games that were played on LAN's that I watched, there are good number of expos, very easy natural to take, 3rd is close to your base and once you get 4th you can easily secude 5th and 6th base. One of my favorite maps and map that is picked by all 3 races often and it almost always goes into a macro game,7)Dual Sight is one of the maps that I really dislike in current tournament map pool (or some of them). Natural reminds me of less terrible xel naga and even your 3rd base is very hard to take, not to mention taking 4th and 5th base as P or T vs Z. Whole middle area is sooooooooooooooo wide open and map pushes players to base trade very often as soon your opponent moves out, even defending here is hard because you are spread out so much.please.8)Even tho picture is normal Bel'shir im talking about winter one since tournaments use that one. Bel'shir is used now in so many tournaments map pool but I almost never play it due to players always vetoing, the only race that doesnt veto it sometimes are zergs. Im not if this is sure because everyone dislikes map or just because they didnt practise on it. Flaw of this map I feel like is there are many paths to each base, so you cant really put your army on 2 places and defend everything when you are on 3-4-5 bases, so sometimes defending attacks from couple of sides can be real pain here which I know is the reason why a lot of protosses are vetoing it either playing vs zerg or terran, but then again so many people veto it that I havent played or seen enough games on it. Its unexplored I think,9)I think maps like Daybreak are maps of the future and how maps will look like in pro play in couple of years. It has good number of expos, its big but not by its size, but how the terrain is made. Even tho it had 3 path ways on middle its a lot easier to hold expos than on Bel'shir beach just because how map is made, not because of its size. Its very easy fast expand, semi-easy to take 3rd but at same time you have to be careful (not like terminus for example) which is good for games, its very hard to pull off 2 base allins here but still possible which usually results in big macro games,10)There are so many things wrong about this map so i'll just say a big11)I feel like this is smaller and better version of terminus, its not better because its smaller but how its layed out, your 3rd IS safe but its not as safe as terminus one and you still have to be careful for 2 base allins, but if you play it out just right (which most players do) you will be able to safely take your 3rd base. A lot of people are saying this map is big problem for zerg in TvZ, but on Korean server players are saying that Antiga is better for zerg than terran. I think this map is played out in a way that you usually fight for control over middle (in any matchup) and from there you take out enemy bases on sides while getting yours up and map is making players play differently than on other maps which is always interesting in my opinion. I think (dont have numbers on this) that this is most played map atm so12)Ahh good old meta, once very loved map, but every time new map comes out I think a lot of players dislike meta more and more, why? I'll look at 3 matchups and try to explain which are PvZ, TvZ and TvP since mirrors balance talk is useless ^^ Protosses dislike meta vs good and aggressive zergs because its almost impossible to get 3rd base and even the forge FE itself you will almost always die to zerg allins. TvZ again is hard to get 3rd base up, sure you can PF it but PF doesnt solve everything, defending mutas can be extremely hard depending on spawn positions and its fairly easy for zerg to cover map with creep and get many expos, meta is the map i really started disliking lately and almost always veto it. Last matchup is TvP which in i'd say 70% of games ends on allins because natural is too wide open for any "safe" play, you need 3-4 bunkers to cover natural and scv + mass bio allin with medivacs can be hard due to not being able to forcefield whole natural, this was good map back in the day, but game changed and maps need to change as well,13)Just to make it clear, talking about Terminus with no enterance to 3rd base and with rocks on 3rd with 2 gases and 8 mineral patch base. I havent seen many games in PvZ on this map so I wont talk about it. I think both TvZ and TvP this map ends in heavy macro way but you can still be aggressive even tho being aggressive on this map is harder than others its still possible. Yes there is only 1 path of attack but mutas and drops become very strong if your opponent is greedy and double expos, or simple 2 base allin on front can work sometimes if executed well. There are plenty of expos on map for long games, good "base transition" from 3rd to 4th into 5th base and once you secure 4th and 5th (on middle) you "open" another 3 bases in other main to take for yourself which is very good because a lot of maps lack this "base transition" in the current map pool. Terminus like I said already is bigger version of Antiga, like Antiga it starts turtly (usually) but it almost always ends up in big macro game which a lot of people like. Having 1-2 maps like Antiga or Terminus in map pool is very good because it gives different kind of playstyle,14)Yes yes yes, I do know this map is pretty good for terran, but at same time I feel this is GSL map that was played and tested the least in tournament plays, once it came out it was TERRAN MAP and people just vetoed it all the time and I think half of them werent even trying to make new strategies and see what they can do with rich gas on in-base natural. The only player I saw that tested with this and played very good on it is Dimaga when he took in-base natural rich gas and played only with it for 13min getting all upgrades going and then taking 4 gases same time (main and 3rd) while having such a good economy while having all the upgrades going only with 3 drones on gas. Even tho this map has 3 "safe expos" I think is very different from Terminus and Antiga and it should be played different. My opinion is that its still unexplored and some maps should have rich gas because it will make new strats in game in any matchup,15)I think this is the only map that I would say that is not only good for protoss but its just too good for protoss, like xel naga was for terran in TvZ. Map is pretty much safe 3 bases, map is so big even 2 base allins once they move out from base you got a lot of time to react to it making 2 base allins almost impossible. Zergs and terrans try to end this on 3 base vs protoss because the longer the game goes, the stronger warpins become on this map due to it huge size. Both zerg and terran have hard time holding expos vs protoss, warp prism mass zealot warpin is very good for denying zerg bases and stalkers vs terran. When eventually fight happends protoss can always warpin units in fight while terran and zerg have to produce from their mains and long distance just gives protoss too much time to recover. I feel this map would be really good..if supplies were set to 300 max or maybe just SC2 isnt ready for it and we should wait for HoTS. One way of "fixing" this map would be making it just little bit smaller or putting expo closer to middle so you can "base transition" without being denied super easy. I talked with some Korean players about it and all terrans really dislike this map and in PvZ its almost impossible to attack protoss while they turtle.16)I think this is one rare map thats good and at same time made by blizzard! Close positions need to be removed here (like antiga) and to be put only cross and you got amazing map and I think this map will become very popular (if it isnt already). Only complaint I have for this map is that the main base, natural and 3rd are too small - you actually dont have space to build buildings and would like if someone made it better by making bases bigger. This map like Antiga has watchtower on mid to control path to your enemy but its not the only path where you can attack, plenty of expos and good expo transitions as well,17)No picture needed we all know its bad, Xel naga in the desert,18)I like how the map is made with paths and expansions only thing I dislike like Entombed valley is too small main base followed by small natural which leaves you with no places to build stuff and I feel middle should be little bigger, feels like small map somehow even tho its 2 players map, but overall map is new, different and I like it,19)I think that Metropolis will make the games very camp style with both players taking 5 bases then trying to take those 2 in middle and 2 islands, im not too sure how I feel about that, something should be changed in order to prevent that, maybe make it 2 player map with only cross spots and change the "other main on your side" somehow to avoid splitting map? Im not saying map is bad, I still like it and its far better than metalopolis in my opinion even tho they are...very similar in many waysIts new, I dont feel its tested enough but I still think it should be played, even if the map forces "campy" games its different than others,: Shakuras Plateau, Tal'darim Altar LE, Daybreak, Antiga Shipyard, Terminus, Entombed Valley, Cloud Kingdom, Metropolis,: Bel'shir Beach Winter, Crevasse,: Xel'naga Caverns, Crossfire SE, iCCup Testbug, Shattered Temple, Dual Sight, Xel Naga Fortress, Metalopolis, Calm Before the Storm, Arid Plateau,Tell me how you like overview so far and which maps you would like to see discussed in future!EDIT: And im pretty happy everyone disagrees with only one or two maps - thats pretty good since every tournament has vetos and you can remove maps you dont like and of course everyone has their own opinion about every map. Stream: http://www.twitch.tv/Beastyqt YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/beastyqtsc2