Mayor Considers Shelter-In-Place Order

by Thomas Breen & Paul Bass | Mar 17, 2020 4:29 pm

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Posted to: Health, Religion, Covid-19, True Vote

New Haven’s Elicker administration is considering an emergency shelter-in-place order to protect the city from the rapid spread of the COVID-19 virus, but hasn’t made any decision yet on whether to proceed with it. New Haven attorney Norm Pattis vowed to fight such an order if issued, both at the local and federal levels. Mayor Justin Elicker revealed the consideration of the order Tuesday afternoon during his latest daily press briefing outside City Hall. “We’re looking at all options. As everyone knows the situation is developing very quickly,” Elicker said. He alluded to shelter-in-place orders in the six California counties that bar people from leaving their homes except for “essential” reasons. “California was quite pro-active. That’s one of the options that we are exploring. But we have not made any decision.” New York City is also considering a shelter-in-place order, though New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo is not on board. In an email alert sent out late Thursday evening, Elicker reiterated that he is “strongly considering other orders to require people not to congregate.” “I am strongly advising you to stay home and to only go out of the home to the grocery store, for medical supplies or other essential trips,” he wrote. “I am urging all employers within New Haven to close their offices unless they are providing an essential service. This advice is not to be taken lightly. We are seeing many more positive cases for COVID-19 in our State and must learn from those communities who are now suffering. By traveling about and congregating, you are putting the health of others at risk. And if they get this disease, they could die.” Attorney Norm Pattis said his office is preparing to go to state court to fight such an order if Elicker issues one, and to federal court (on behalf of Infowars’ Alex Jones) if President Trump issues a similar order for the nation. “I hope the mayor is not considering a lockdown. We have plaintiffs prepared to challenge such an order,” Pattis told the Independent. “I understand the need for a powerful public health response to the crisis, but this isn’t China.” Pattis called the right to travel “a fundamental right under the state and federal Constitution” that has “rarely been tested in the courts. We would welcome the opportunity to seek whether the Bill of Rights has teeth in a time of crisis.” Push For Online Prayer Meanwhile, Elicker repeated frustration at the continuation of prayer services, some of them quite large, in some local houses of worship despite pleas to avoid such gatherings. He urged congregations to go online with services. Meanwhile, Elicker repeated frustration at the continuation of prayer services, some of them quite large, in some local houses of worship despite pleas to avoid such gatherings. He urged congregations to go online with services. Based on his conversations with pastors, Elicker said, “we realized this past weekend that we need to do much more work in that area,” but “people are really starting to get it.” City Health Director Maritza Bond said she has been holding group calls with Latino pastors to try to communicate the message. (Click here to read an article by one pastor, the Rev. Samuel T. Ross-Lee of Immanuel Baptist Church, about why his congregation did decide not to hold services.) At the press conference, Elicker said he visited the Bella Vista senior housing complex today along with Health Director Bond to check on how seniors are doing. Overall, “we were generally happy with what we saw,” Elicker said. But he was concerned that “some people continue to visit Bella Vista who don’t live there.” He noted that seniors are a prime risk group for serious reactions to the conoravirus. Elicker also said the police department is reducing the number of people held in the pre-detention lock-up at the police station in order to try to prevent the spread of COVID-19. Elicker also said the police department is reducing the number of people held in the pre-detention lock-up at the police station in order to try to prevent the spread of COVID-19. On the day that Yale New Haven Health opened a drive-up coronavirus testing facility at 150 Sargent Dr., the mayor reported that his health department is working on a plan to include people who lack health care providers in the process. To obtain a test, people need a prescription from a health care provider. He said the health department is also working on improving access to the center for people without cars. He said the health department has offered volunteers from the Medical Reserve Corps to assist people in the testing center. “We anticipate we will quickly see a rise in cases around the region” now that testing is in place, Elicker said. As of Tuesday afternoon, New Haven had three confirmed positive COVID-19 cases—the same number that the city had on Monday. An earlier version of this story follows: COVID-19 Updates: 3 Confirmed Cases; Drive-Thru Testing Readied; Focus Turns To Seniors, Homeless Cops will begin virtual shift line-ups, Yale-New Haven will start “drive-through” testing, signs will go up at playgrounds preaching “social distancing,” and City Hall is focusing on keeping people safe at homeless shelters and nursing homes. Cops will begin virtual shift line-ups, Yale-New Haven will start “drive-through” testing, signs will go up at playgrounds preaching “social distancing,” and City Hall is focusing on keeping people safe at homeless shelters and nursing homes. Those were among the latest developments Mayor Justin Elicker announced Monday afternoon as the city scrambles to contain the spread of the COVID-19 coronavirus. Elicker also issued a plea to people to avoid gatherings and keep their distance: “Do you know 100 people?” he asked. “Do you want three of those people to die?” Elicker made those remarks and offered those updates at a 2:30 p.m. press briefing outside City Hall, a day after he declared a state of emergency in New Haven and closed City Hall to the public indefinitely. Among his updates: • New Haven has three confirmed cases of COVID-19, but the real number is believed to be considerably greater. • The city will have a better handle on the real number as testing increases. Yale New Haven Hospital is about to announce that it is instituting a “drive-through” testing option similar to one at Hartford Hospital, reported Health Director Maritza Bond, with a vow to make sure people of all incomes have access to it. • A city team, including school nurses currently not at schools, is working with senior facilities to evaluate how to keep residents there safe. Seniors are considered the most vulnerable to severe reactions to the novel coronavirus. Elicker called that “my biggest concern right now.” “Our team is working feverishly to ensure that we can as best as possible protect people in those situations and support individuals that are running these facilities,” he said. • Similarly, his team is working on a strategy to help homeless individuals self-isolate if they contract the virus; to make more room at homeless shelters for people to spread out; and to add port-o-potties near free-food distribution centers that are now offering only take-out rather than dine-in services. • Elicker said his administration decided not to close playgrounds, for fear that families would then gather indoors in closer groupings; but will instead post signs urging people not to get too close to each other at playground facilities. • The police department’s shift changes will now move to virtual rather than in-person line-up announcements. • The mayor’s administration is in the process of assessing which city employees can work at a safe distance to return to offices in City Hall; and developing telecommuting options. The building was closed to the public Monday indefinitely and all non-essential employees told not to report to the office. At the update, At the update, Elicker was asked about criticism from some black and Hispanic ministers that his call to have people stay away from church and his closure of child care centers serving more than 12 kids are inequitably hurting the poor. Responding to a message he has heard from some ministers, Elicker noted that the churches rely on in-person contributions from parishioners to stay in business. He urged people to donate money to their churches online. “Churches rely on church services to help fund their rent,” he said, asking people to “support the very groups that help us through these times.” “This is an awful situation. There are no easy answers to this. It is very clear from an economic perspective, our pain now will reduce the pain we feel later,” Elicker said. “This pandemic is bringing us apart physically. But it is bringing us together spiritually and emotionally. This is not the time to close your wallets.” When asked about what the city is doing to support local restaurants, bars, gyms, and other venues that will have to shutter in response to Gov. Ned Lamont’s Wednesday morning order, Elicker said that city Economic Development Administrator Michael Piscitelli has been having conversations with state Department of Economic and Community Development (DECD) Commissioner David Lehman about “how we can make sure that we locally and at the state and federal levels support our local businesses.” On March 13, DECD announced that the agency will defer approximately $5 million in loan payments for all Small Business Express loans for three months. “[I]f your small business needs assistance, please call DECD’s business hotline at 860-500-2333,” Lehman is quoted as saying in a Friday Facebook post by the city’s economic development department. “We will continue to work closely with our federal, state and municipal partners, as well as business leaders, to respond quickly and efficiently to this crisis.” “There are no easy answers,” Elicker continued Monday. “The city doesn’t have a lot of money that we can dole out right now.” An earlier version of this story follows. Elicker Issues Emergency Declaration; Some Churches Packed; City Hall Closes To Public As New Haven reported a second confirmed and third presumed case of the COVID-19 coronavirus, Mayor Justin Elicker issued a state of emergency to ramp up the city’s response and pressed religious leaders to stop holding services — a plea that was not universally heeded. As New Haven reported a second confirmed and third presumed case of the COVID-19 coronavirus, Mayor Justin Elicker issued a state of emergency to ramp up the city’s response and pressed religious leaders to stop holding services — a plea that was not universally heeded. Those were among the latest developments Sunday in the fast-moving public health crisis as it sweeps into the city. In issuing the state of emergency, Elicker announced City Hall will close to the public indefinitely starting Monday. Only “essential” city employees will report to work. “Over the next several days, our team will be evaluating our employee safety and operations protocol, in addition to increasing options for teleworking where possible. If you are a member of the business community, I strongly encourage you to have only essential employees report to work, provide options for employees to telework and do what you can to support paid leave and reduce any chance of further spread of COVID-19,” Elicker stated in a release. The Board of Alders does have a full meeting scheduled for Monday night. As of Sunday afternoon, it was still on. The mayor and board leadership held a conference call Sunday to discuss the meeting; Elicker said the hall will be thoroughly cleaned before the meeting, and social distancing maintained. “The Board of Alders will meet tomorrow evening to conduct regular business and will take every recommended precaution as advised by the Health Department. We will review protocol for subsequent meetings and make any necessary adjustments,” board Majority Leader Richard Furlow reported in a statement issued Sunday. The meeting will be live-streamed for the public via the Zoom video conferencing online service. Click here to access the meeting online when it starts Monday evening at 6:30. The mayor said in an interview late Sunday afternoon that the emergency declaration will allow the city to take whatever restrictive measures become necessary in coming days. For instance, the city has to figure out how to deal with homeless people who become infected with the coronavirus. One possibility — not yet a plan — might include reserving hotel rooms where homeless individuals sickened by the virus can self-isolate. “Our team is working to address that problem as fast as possible,” Elicker said. Meanwhile, he reported that officials have confirmed a second case of a New Haven resident with COVID-19. That person is being hospitalized at Yale New Haven, as is a third person who hasn’t been tested but is showing clear symptoms and is a “presumptive” case. The first New Haven case, involving a Yale New Haven Health official, was announced on Friday. (The text of the emergency order appears further down in this story.) Religious Concerns The emergency order does not include directives about religious services. But the mayor is concerned about that as well. The emergency order does not include directives about religious services. But the mayor is concerned about that as well. On Saturday night, Elicker also issued a public statement asking people not to attend church services. He noted that outbreaks in South Korea and in New Rochelle “exploded because of religious services.” “The great irony of this virus is that it is bringing us spiritually together by forcing us to physically stay apart,” Elicker wrote. Religious services did take place throughout the city this weekend, though attendance dropped at many venues, and some did cancel. Religious leaders are now weighing partial or full closures. Some churches were packed. Elicker urged leaders of those congregations to work with the city to save lives. “A lot of people are not taking our directions seriously. This is people’s civic duty,” Elicker said in the interview Sunday. “If people feel like they’re of a certain age they’re not going to be as heavily impacted, and that’s why they’re attending these events, that is deeply irresponsible. Each one of us has the power to help spread this or contain it. It’s up to each one of us to help save the lives of the people who are most vulnerable.” At Varick AME Zion, the three Sunday Sabbath services drew about 125 people each, according to the Rev. Kelcy Steele. Elderly regulars were urged to stay home. He said the congregation is “getting ready to move to a virtual format” for next weekend. He and church leaders will hold one service next Sunday, not three, and live-stream it on Facebook. Steele said he is advising people to watch the service from home rather than show up in person. “If they’re comfortable coming, we’re definitely not going to turn them away,” he added. Meanwhile, the church is looking to fill gaps created by the city’s state of emergency. Within a week it hopes to have 30 slots available at a daily 10 a.m.-3 p.m. tutoring program at the church’s Family Life Center for children of parents who need to go to work. It is also providing transportation to needy families who need a ride to free-food stations the city is setting up at schools each morning. (Call 203-624-6245 for a ride.) And the church’s soup kitchen will remain open — but only to provide to-go plates, not for dining in. Attendance dipped from about 250-175 to between 125 and 150 congregants at the early Sunday service and from 200 to about 100, at the second service at Una Iglesia para la Ciudad, according to Pastor Hector Otero. He said he and his staff will meet tomorrow about what to do about services moving forward. One of the city’s fastest-growing faith communities, Congregation Lubavitch New Haven on Norton Street, has asked people over 60 years old not to attend services. For now it will offer two daily services, but restrict attendance to around a quorum, and hold the services outdoors behind the shul and instruct people “to keep a social distance of eight feet or more,” reported congregation President Moti Sandman. “Everything is fluid. If it gets worse, we’re going to cancel.” The congregation has shut down all other functions and moved its school and after-school programs online. Congregation Beth-El Keser Israel in Westville did hold regular services on the Sabbath but on Saturday morning had people practice social distancing. Congregation President Yaron Lew said daily services will take place in the large sanctuary rather than the customary small chapel, with people directed to remain far apart. The congregation board’s executive committee plans to meet Monday night to discuss further measures. “In addition, we are gearing up to deliver groceries to people who might need to be in quarantine,” Lew reported. A third congregation, Westville Synagogue, has shut down services altogether. “Based on consultation with a medical expert who is on the front lines of hospital care, we shut down all prayer services and classes as of this past Friday night,” reported Rabbi Fred Hyman. “This recommendation is based on mitigation and protection of our congregation.” Bars Cooperative Also on Sunday, the day of the canceled St. Patrick’s Day Parade, another of Mayor Elicker’s orders was put to the test: The one requiring public venues to slash their occupancy maximums in half. Bars were still expecting crowds and holding promotions despite the parade’s cancellation. Also on Sunday, the day of the canceled St. Patrick’s Day Parade, another of Mayor Elicker’s orders was put to the test: The one requiring public venues to slash their occupancy maximums in half. Bars were still expecting crowds and holding promotions despite the parade’s cancellation. The fire marshal’s office had two inspectors checking bars hourly on Crown, Chapel, State, and Humphrey streets starting at 8 a.m. By the end of the 8-4 shift, they reported no problems, said Fire Marshal Jen Forslund. She said venues that have a maximum occupancy of 60, for example, only let in 30 people at a time. “They weren’t letting anyone else in. Everybody was pretty compliant. We had a lot of cooperation.” Another pair of inspectors planned to continue the spot-checks through the evening. Text of The Emergency Declaration An earlier version of this article follows.

COVID-19 Lands In New Haven Yale New Haven Health’s chief nursing executive is the first city resident to test positive for COVID-19, and is currently self-isolating at home. An additional three non-city residents have also tested positive at the local hospital for the novel coronavirus. And YNHH’s chief clinical officer has decided to self-quarantine for two weeks after being exposed to COVID-19, even though he has tested negative. That flurry of updates about the local impact of the global pandemic all came on Saturday. Mayor Justin Elicker sent out a press release confirming that the city has identified its first resident to test positive for COVID-19. He did not provide any details about who that resident is, where they live, or how long they are suspected to have had the novel coronavirus. City Health Director Maritza Bond is quoted in the release as saying that the New Haven resident is and will remain under self-isolation. The mayor also said that Yale-New Haven Hospital has tested three other non-New Haven residents who have all tested positive for COVID-19. “We have been anticipating this inevitable moment and anticipate many more cases,” Elicker is quoted as saying in the release. “I want to, again, stress the vital importance of following guidelines from our medical professionals, the CDC, and our chief health professionals at City Hall. “To reduce the chance of getting the virus: please stay away from large crowds, wash your hands, maintain social distancing of six feet and avoid shaking hands. Furthermore, if you think you are showing symptoms of COVID-19, do not show up at your primary care physician without contacting them first over the phone. Our team at City Hall is working to respond to this rapidly developing situation and anticipate we will implement additional measures in the coming days to keep our residents safe and healthy.” The announcement came one day after Elicker issued an emergency half-occupancy order that requires all local restaurants, bars, music halls, and other venues that can fit 16 people or more at a time to cut their capacities in half starting Sunday. The New Haven Fire Department has been charged with enforcing the order. It also comes on the heels of President Donald Trump declaring a national emergency to try to stem the coronavirus’s spread throughout the United States, and several days after Gov. Ned Lamont declared a public health emergency in the state.

Also on Saturday, the U.S. House of Representatives passed the Families First Coronavirus Response Act. U.S. Rep. Rosa DeLauro said in a Saturday press release that the legislation “will ensure free coronavirus tests for all—including the uninsured, access to paid sick days and longer-term paid leave, enhanced unemployment insurance, expanded food security for seniors, kids, and families, and increased funding for state Medicaid programs.” In a separate memo sent to YNHH staff Saturday afternoon, YNHH President and CEO Marna Borgstrom (pictured) said that the hospital system’s chief nursing executive, Beth Beckman, has tested positive for the novel coronavirus and has self-isolated at home. She wrote that “Beth is doing well and remains engaged in our daily operations.” In a separate memo sent to YNHH staff Saturday afternoon, YNHH President and CEO Marna Borgstrom (pictured) said that the hospital system’s chief nursing executive, Beth Beckman, has tested positive for the novel coronavirus and has self-isolated at home. She wrote that “Beth is doing well and remains engaged in our daily operations.” Borgstrom also wrote that the YNHH’s chief medical officer, Thomas Balcezak, has been exposed to COVID-19. She wrote that he has tested negative and has no symptoms, though he has self-quarantined himself at home for 14 days as a result of his wife testing positive. “Like Beth, he remains engaged in our daily operations while working at home.” The announcement came one day after Balcezak helped lead a press conference alongside other top YNHH officials detailing the hospital system’s preparations for the coronavirus landfall. “As always, our top priority remains the safety of patients, visitors and everyone that works throughout the Yale New Haven Health System,” Borgstrom continued. “Anyone that has come into direct contact with a person who has tested positive for COVID-19 should self-monitor and, should symptoms arise, contact their primary care physician directly.” YNHH has established a COVID-19 call center, which is accessible at 203-688-1700 or 833-ASK-YNHH. Click here to read more about the measures that YNHH has taken over the past few weeks, days and hours to prepare for the first documented COVID-19 cases in New Haven. In another email sent out Saturday afternoon to Yale University students and staff, Yale Health Director Paul Genecin wrote that “a member of our community has tested positive for COVID-19 (coronavirus disease 2019) on a preliminary test, and we await confirmation. Another community member and a household contact are also undergoing diagnostic evaluation, and we await test results for these patients.” Genecin did not name the community members in his email. “Yale New Haven Hospital is following Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) guidance and working with the state and local health departments, who are following their protocols for such cases,” he wrote. “At the same time, we are working to trace these individuals’ steps and to communicate with their close contacts. We will provide guidance as soon as possible to those who have had close contact with confirmed patients ranging from self-monitoring for symptoms (fever, cough, difficulty breathing) to self-isolation at home with active monitoring for 14 days. “I remind you that we have asked community members to take important steps to implement social distancing. Please review that guidance at the university’s COVID-19 website. In addition, as you read in the email from Vice President Janet Lindner on Wednesday, we are asking staff to move to virtual meetings and for supervisors to arrange for staff to work from home where possible while maintaining university operations. These are key steps to limit the spread of COVID-19 in our community.” He called on Yale community members to monitor their health by taking the following measures: • Take your temperature with a thermometer two times a day and monitor for fever (100°F/37.8°C or higher).

• Watch for cough or trouble breathing. If one gets sick with fever (100°F/37.8°C or higher), cough frequently, or has trouble breathing, Genecin urged community members to take the following steps: • Avoid contact with others.

• Seek medical care by calling ahead before you go to a doctor’s office or emergency room.

• Report your symptoms as well as your recent travel history or any exposure to others who are unwell.

• If you need to seek medical care for other reasons, call ahead to your doctor and tell them about your recent travel to an area with widespread or ongoing community spread of COVID-19 and about any exposure to a person with the illness.

• Cover your mouth and nose with a tissue when you cough or sneeze.

• Wash your hands often with soap and water. Use an alcohol-based hand sanitizer that contains at least 60% alcohol if soap and water are not available. “If we as individuals take precautions and practice good hygiene, we can protect the health of all; please refer to the preventive measures posted on Yale’s COVID-19 website.” Lucy Gellman contributed to this report.

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posted by: CLaudia H on March 14, 2020 5:54pm Fist, Thank you for the job you all are doing to help New Haven’s community and event than I trying to do my part and be away from big crowds etc. Obviously your jobs is in a lot more of risk for the benefits of others. Hoping the best recovering for Ms.Beckman and Balcezak. That being said Ms. Marna didn’t go much in detail explaining what is going to happen with all the people that have being working around them ?? She rush to tells again what we are suppose to do in case of exposure. But. What is the case of protocol in this situation?? How many people more will be in observation?

posted by: 1644 on March 14, 2020 9:20pm If the protocol for health workers who have been exposed but tested negative is to self-quarantine, who will be left to treat patients?

posted by: Ben Howell on March 14, 2020 9:47pm @1644 - the protocols for known exposures among health workers are rapidly evolving to balance healthcare workforce needs & minimizing risk of further spread. Likely, given high prevalence of community exposure soon (this is going to spread fast!), it *may* change to quarantine when you have symptoms such as fever/cough (not just when exposed), but it’s a moving target and changing hour-to-hour, day-to-day. I appreciate all the health care workers - MDs, RNs, PCAs, cleaning staff, RTs, cafeteria workers (ie anyone working in a hospital) - in the hospital now.

posted by: Mike Melanson Mayor Elicker, I believe that we may be on the front end of the curve for the country in some ways, but still behind the virus. I hear people saying they’re going out to dinner to crowded restaurants and I’m sure the younger folks are out at the bars tonight for St. Patrick’s day, looking for green beer and the like. We need to get ahead of this virus. We need to shut as much unnecessary interaction down as possible. We need to slow the spread.

posted by: deathandtaxes on March 15, 2020 6:26pm Just walked by Regal Beagle, where members of the New Haven Fire Department were congregating - did the fire marshal check there?

posted by: Stephen Harris on March 15, 2020 6:50pm Hey everyone, Do what Americans do best; watch TV.

posted by: Elmer's Glue on March 15, 2020 7:45pm Every day that business places remain open and congregations meet, the odds of New Haven’s hospitals going through a Wuhan or Lombardy style crisis jump by a lot. We are in a desperate crisis. The State and Federal government are going to have to take the lead in making sure everyone does not go broke. (Looking at you too, Yale.) The city’s job is to close ALL unnecessary events and businesses, and do what it can to help the most vulnerable. It will be hard, it will be grim, we will all be poorer. But the alternative is thousands of people in our city dying uncared for and untended.

posted by: AverageTaxpayer on March 15, 2020 7:58pm Can’t believe Elicker just shuttered City Hall, suggesting it’s not safe for anyone to go to work? Is this just for white-collar employees? What about sanitation workers? Firefighters? Police? There is no evidence that this super-flu is as contagious as people are making it out to be. And if it is, the majority of us will catch it anyway. What’s the long-term strategy here? To close schools and shutter businesses anytime some shows up at the hospital with a case

of the Coronavirus? At what point will it ever be deemed safe to re-open City Hall and the public schools? If CV was deathly lethal, these types of drastic actions might be justifiable. But it isn’t, and instead our fear is on the verge of leading to a complete breakdown of our economy, and potentially our society. This is not leadership from Elicker. Please god, save us from ourselves.

posted by: Reclaimer53 on March 15, 2020 8:36pm Ask the poor citizens of Italy what they would differently if they could go back to where we are now. We are just at the tip. The steps in place are just enough to slow it down a little. Be prepared people it’s coming fast. Thank you Mayor for making some hard choices.

posted by: Elmer's Glue on March 15, 2020 8:48pm I can’t believe I’m reading: “There is no evidence that this super-flu is as contagious as people are making it out to be” Once again the NHI is party to the dissemination of false and potentially misleading information about a life-and-death matter of urgent concern. This publication needs to establish a policy NOW against passing along the view that Coronavirus is ‘just like the flu’.

posted by: Noteworthy on March 15, 2020 8:59pm The Elicker Notes: 1. We do not need irrational leadership in City Hall - hysteria, mayhem and anguished predictions of a coming apocalypse are too much. It’s time to stop posing with the crisis. 2. Wash your hands. If you’re sick stay home. Keep separation and stay hydrated. Telling people to telecommute, eliminate religious services - at a time when we need God and each other the most? That’s just irresponsible. 3. But closing City Hall? I guess our parking tickets and taxes can all wait. Any word on that? Of course not. 4. Will all the budget hearings also be canceled? What about the public hearings on the budget? Those canceled? That way, Elicker can just pass his tax and spend budget without opposition. In fact, maybe he can go in and raise the taxes even more while keeping the meeting shuttered and out of view of the public. 5. Folks - it’s time to get real and stop the hysteria and stupidity associated with this response. Just playing follow the leader and having the leader make these kinds of irrational statements is unacceptable.

Elicker should be showing real leadership, calming the waters - and giving practical advice to people so they can stay virus free. He should be encouraging people to check on their elderly neighbors. Instead - we’re given this list and encouraging hysteria. It’s time for the mayor to grow up and start acting like a mayor and not an echo chamber of every nutty idea under the sun.

posted by: AverageTaxpayer on March 15, 2020 10:30pm @ Elmer’s Glue — it’s not the friggin’ measles, and people everywhere are working on the assumption that healthy people can have this disease, show no symptoms, and spread it to others. I just don’t see the evidence that that is in fact reality. And if it were, there isn’t much chance of stopping CV from going around the world. Unless we all hole up for months and months and months, maybe into years and years. People have to eat. They have to pay bills, and unless we want the economy to completely collapse, people have to still go to work. If the idea is to shut everything down for several weeks, with the hope of CV going away, sure, why not? But beyond that? The societal costs of the shutdown are apt to quickly cost more than the deaths — which ultimately might not be preventable anyway. If CV is still lurking late August, are we going to keep the schools closed for the fall? Next January? August 2021? Maybe you aren’t afraid of sacrificing normalcy to an unchecked fear of dying, but I’m going to continue to point out that there are real costs to doing so.

posted by: LoveNH on March 16, 2020 12:32am To those of you who are taking this social distancing request seriously, we who work at YNHHS thank you from the bottom of our hearts. We only have a certain number of ventilators and staff to care for the stricken. The nightmare scenario is that the surge exceeds the supply, and folks get triaged to life or death like a scene out of a war movie. If we can manage to follow the outbreak curve of Singapore rather than Italy, we can save so many neighbors’ lives - including many of my co-workers’. Maybe mine. If you take out dinner instead of eat out; pray from home or in a small gathering instead of in a large group; watch Netflix with a six pack instead of living it up from the tap at a local bar, the life you save may be mine - or god forbid your own elderly parent’s or grandparent’s. When does this end? In a few months when we have an antiviral medicine (like an HIV drug) or in a year when we have a vaccine (like flu vaccine). Many of both types of solutions are entering testing by scientists working around the clock. Until they succeed, even if you’re not at church, please pray for all of us and take care. I hope you’re privileged to call me a crazy hysteric a few months from now; That would be a truly joyous day for me. Here’s to hoping enough folks listen to me that the rest can call me a fool! God bless.

posted by: 1644 on March 16, 2020 6:29am AT;

1. There is sound evidence that asymptomatic people can spread the disease. If they could not, we would not have the “community spread” that we do. Widespread testing in Korea conforms lots of asymptomatic positives.

2. It is like the measles in that it is as, or nearly as, contagious.

3. It is unlike the measles in that it is a least ten times as deadly. The mortality rate for measles (or typical influenza) is 1 out of a thousand. The mortality rate for Wuhan novel coronavirus 19 is one out of a hundred (at least).

4. You are correct that we shall not stop its spread to nearly the entire population

5. We can, however, slow its spread, or “flatten the curve”. The same total numbers will become ill, but over a longer period of time.

6. Slowing the spread will prevent our health care system from being overwhelmed. Lombard hospitals have been overwhelmed, with the resultant death rate about 15% (vice the 1% of Korea’ admittedly younger population) As one person said, it’s the difference between getting treated in an ICU or in a hospital parking lot.

https://www.flattenthecurve.com

7. If we do not flatten the curve, we will shall need to resurrect “God Squads” to rationally allocate limited resources. (Hartford Hospital had one when kidney dialysis machines were new and rare.) Who gets the ICU? The 15 year-old? The 40 year-old supporting two kids? The gainfully employed 60 year-old, or the aimless, and perhaps delinquent 20 year-old? Do we pull the 60 year-old out to treat the 40 year old? Does it make a difference if one is a doctor and another a janitor?

posted by: robn on March 16, 2020 6:58am A few days ago my spouse very cautiously went out to buy food and overheard some knucklehead repeating “it’s just the flu”. It’s not “just the flu”. The WHO conservatively estimates that the 1918-19 Spanish Flu had a 2-3% fatality rate but fatality estimates have varied anywhere from 17M-100M people. As of this morning the global Covid fatality rate is pushing 4%. In Italy it’s 7%. Take it seriously folks.

posted by: Kevin McCarthy on March 16, 2020 7:37am Picking up on Reclaimer53’s point, the trend line of cases in the U.S. is almost identical to that in Italy, just a couple of weeks later. And Italy actually has more hospital beds per 100,000 residents than we do.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1516763368476664&set=a.462857850533893&type=3

posted by: CityYankee on March 16, 2020 7:41am Bars/ restaurants that violate the order should be shut down, cited, and fined.

posted by: AverageTaxpayer on March 16, 2020 9:12am @ 1644 & Robn — you twocite fatality rates based upon the number of verified cases. That is very bad math. Since so few people are getting tested we do not know the true fatality rate. But is not 4, 7, or 15 percent, and tossing numbers like that around just fuels hysteria. How many people are self-treating at home? How many people never get tested? 1644 — Q: where do you find any responsible data suggesting this is as contagious as measles? A: you don’t. .

posted by: robn on March 16, 2020 9:34am ATP, Undiagnosed cases are never part of the statistics. That’s the nature of an unknown. You don’t count it.

posted by: 1644 on March 16, 2020 9:58am AT: While we haven’t had widespread testing, South Korea has, and the mortality rate there is 1%. Fauci has also used the one per cent figure. If we look at closed cases in the US, the fatality rate is about 50%. The transmission of Wuhan corona virus 19 and measles is similar. Both are transmitted through an infected person coughing or sneezing, both persist on surfaces for hours, possibly more hours for Wuhan. The major difference may be that virtually everyone who is infected with measles has clinical symptoms, whereas many infected with Wuhan may not, or have symptoms which could be something else (like the Snohomish teenager). Epidemiologists call measles the perfect disease because it’s easy to track.

posted by: THREEFIFTHS on March 16, 2020 10:03am You can see these two huslers.It will cost you 125.00 dollars. SEE IT: Televangelist claims to cure coronavirus through television sets. Texas-based Evangelical preacher Kenneth Copeland — his right hand dripping with ointment — urged believers to put their hands on their screens and be cured of the coronavirus, for which there is no known remedy.Video of the 83-year-old preacher’s program was tweeted Thursday by the group Right Wing Watch. It showed him conducting the alleged healing ritual. Televangelist Sells $125 ‘Silver Solution’ as Cure for Coronavirus A guest on televangelist Jim Bakker’s show suggested on Wednesday that a product sold on Bakker’s website might be effective at protecting against and killing the novel coronavirus.The guest, naturopathic Dr. Sherrill Sellman, said that Silver Solution—a product that can be purchased on Bakker’s web store—has been found to be effective on viruses related to the one from Wuhan. Further, she said Silver Solution could bolster a person’s immune system and potentially make their bodies less susceptible to the virus. https://www.newsweek.com/televangelist-show-guest-promotes-silver-solution-cure-coronavirus-1487069

posted by: Kevin McCarthy on March 16, 2020 10:05am AT, you argue that the fatality rate is unreliable because so few people have been tested. That is, for the present, reasonable with regard to the U.S. But other countries have had far more extensive testing rates. While the fatality rates vary by country, they have been far higher than that for the flu. And with the exception of Singapore and a few other countries, the rate of growth in confirmed cases has been similar across countries.

posted by: AverageTaxpayer on March 16, 2020 10:42am @ 1644—the transmission between CV and measles may be similar, but the contagion or spread rate are not nearly the same.

@ Kevin, @ 1644—How many people have been tested in Korea? You all talk as if it is 10%, 20%, 50% of the population. Simply not true. https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/coronavirus-test-kits-south-korea-us/2020/03/13/007f14fc-64a1-11ea-8a8e-5c5336b32760_story.html Instead it is about 250,000 out of a population north of 50 Million. Sure, it is likely that most everyone with a high fever is getting tested. But that’s not necessarily everyone who has contracted CV. In any case, a mortality rate of 1% is degrees away from the mortality rates that you all tossed out here.

posted by: 1644 on March 16, 2020 12:49pm AT: Korea has less than 10K cases of COVID 19.

http://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20200316000199&np=1&mp=1

With 250K tests, it is testing not only the symptomatic, but all contacts, free, plus, for $135 one can get a test. They have had drive through clinics for a while. Korea has a strong national government, deference to authority/Confucian heritage, good health system, and strong social cohesion. With its proximity to China, it knew the threat was real and acted accordingly. Gung-ho may be a Chinese phrase, but Koreans likes to think they, too, work together to fight threats from outside, whether it be foreign invasion or a virus.

posted by: robn on March 16, 2020 1:06pm ATP The fatality rate is the number of recorded deaths divided by the number of recorded infections. Plain and simple; it has nothing to do with untested people that might be carrying the virus.

At the moment, statistically, this is far worse than 1918-19.

https://www.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6

posted by: Kevin McCarthy on March 16, 2020 1:45pm AT, wrong metric. The motality rate for a disease is the proportion of people who come down with a disease who die of it. There are all sorts of diseases that affect a smal part of the population that have high mortality rates. Conversely, the flu routinely kills 10,000+ Americans per year but has a low mortality rate.

posted by: THREEFIFTHS on March 16, 2020 4:09pm I like what this minster said. So I just finished an interview. Here’s what I shared: My lawyer and I were talking about this today, and this is what we were thinking: The government can’t burden people’s exercise of religion unless doing so is necessary to serve a compelling government interest. If there must be a restriction, it has to be as narrowly defined as possible.The government - and its people - have the duty to prevent the spread of a highly-contagious, deadly pandemic that feeds off of physical proximity. Keeping people from infecting each other in worship is our shared duty.It’s hard to imagine - or maybe it’s not, I guess - how faith leaders could twist the protections of the free exercise of religion and religious freedom to place their people in harm’s way in the midst of a public health crisis on a scale none of us has experienced in our lifetimes.Especially since there are alternatives.Jesus said “where two or three are gathered in my name, there I shall be, also.” I question any Christian who would pull together large groups at the expense of their health and safety. As a pastor, I know that my people put a tremendous amount of trust in my leadership. Were I ever to endanger them - physically or spiritually - I would be committing a dereliction of duty.Doing everything we can to protect the health of our people is our solemn duty. Good shepherds care for their flocks, don’t stick them in close proximity to pick up a disease that will likely kill the most vulnerable - the “least of these” as Jesus says in Matthew 25, amongst them.Jesus was a healer. Yes, people could touch his garment and be cured of disease. But some of my colleagues in the ministry seem to have forgotten that they are not Jesus. Touching them will not protect anyone from coronavirus.Prayer works across distance. Many of these leaders have been practicing televangelism for decades! Why on earth they would deny the health needs of their people is beyond me. It’s a deadly choice.

posted by: William Kurtz Even Newt Gingrich is saying an overreaction (which, to be clear, public health officials are not doing) is preferable to a disaster.

posted by: Elmer's Glue on March 16, 2020 4:36pm Now that President Trump has thrown in the towel and admitted that this crisis is here, it is huge, and it is going to require extreme measures to combat, will all the conservatives follow suit or will they continue to play amateur epidemiologist and claim that this is a big nothingburger and no worse than the flu? It will be interesting to see. Thankfully the NHI comments section is there to serve as a record.

posted by: Patricia Kane on March 16, 2020 5:33pm @Noteworthy: I’m with Team Elicker on this one. We must be proactive and not reactive (Dr. John Campbell)

Process this because it will get worse. Mon, Mar 16 at 5:17 PM

Confirmed cases (As of 3/16)

There were 35 cases in Fairfield County, four cases in Litchfield County, three in New Haven County, and three in Hartford County. Hartford County: Patient admitted to UConn Health Center in Farmington, but discharged to quarantine.

New Haven: Two cases, including a Yale-New Haven Hospital worker. One additional case is being monitored.

Norwalk: A man in his 40s tested positive.

Rocky Hill: A woman in her 80s was positive and is now at Hartford Hospital.

Greenwich: Two cases, a man in his 40s and another man in his 20s.

Darien: A man in his 50s tested positive.

Westport: 20 cases confirmed on Monday

Wilton: The patient was between the ages of 40 and 50. The infection is believed to have happened during a trip to California.

Bethlehem: Three cases, a woman in her 60s who is a healthcare worker at Bridgeport Hospital, a woman in her 30s and a man in his 60s.

New Canaan: An elderly man tested positive on Wednesday. The case is not connected to any known cases in the state, and Dept. of Public Health is assisting medical professionals to trace it.

Stratford: A child tested positive. Before the positive test was announced, Wilcoxson Elementary School was closed after learning a student was exposed to a confirmed case.

Stamford: Patient did not contract virus in the United States or in Stamford. The patient returned from international travel on March 10 and was preemptively isolated at Stamford Hospital. They tested positive on March 11.

Milford: Resident tests positive for COVID-19

posted by: Patricia Kane on March 16, 2020 5:46pm As of Monday evening, the state had 41 confirmed cases of COVID-19, the disease caused by the coronavirus, including 15 additional cases since the previous announcement a day earlier. Of those 41 cases, 29 are in Fairfield County and four each are in Hartford, New Haven and Litchfield Counties. The actual number of cases in the state is believed to be far higher, as a lack of testing limits officials’ ability to measure the coronavirus’s true spread. Note: we are racing to get test kits. We are unprepared.

posted by: AverageTaxpayer on March 16, 2020 6:03pm Who is saying it’s a nothing burger? It’s a global pandemic and an evil, killer flu. My question is pretty simple. If we can’t put the genie back in the bottle, (here’s hoping we can), how do we live our lives moving forward? Do we keep the schools closed for a year or two, hoping a vaccination is discovered? Does everyone just stay at home, putting 12-24 months on their credit cards?

posted by: Justsayin123 on March 16, 2020 7:47pm I understand elderly and others being tested. But really folks what about first repsonders? FD, PD, AMR? The homeless are not going to step up and risk their lives to save others like these people do and will daily. Govt fail again

posted by: Elmer's Glue on March 16, 2020 8:23pm Every time some conservative claims that “government” has failed in its response to coronavirus, remember that the same person would have been kicking and screaming about “government waste and abuse” if our common institutions had taken the steps that were necessary to avoid full or partial failures, e.g. stockpiling masks, developing tests and vaccines, working out contingency plans, or hiring persons to think ahead. Whenever the government fails, you will always find two primary human causes: corrupt politicians, and fiscal conservatism.

posted by: William Kurtz From the Clark County, Nevada, school board candidate (Katie Williams) to the governor of Oklahoma (Kevin Stitt) to the anchors on Fox News to the president of the United States, the moral, ethical, and intellectual vacuity of the Republican party has been laid bare by this crisis.

posted by: 1644 on March 16, 2020 9:55pm “Do you know 100 people?” he asked. “Do you want three of those people to die?”

I cannot select more than three? :)

posted by: Sean O'Brien I appreciate the seriousness of this message, and the others by the mayor. Why has Tweed not been closed? Hundreds of people have been arriving day and night after tight quarters for flights across the country. Surely, if other businesses are forced to close Tweed should be. I have tried to emphasize the increased risk of terrorism that Tweed bring the East Shore and have been laughed at in the past but, surely, we can all consider this a real risk.

posted by: 1644 on March 17, 2020 3:48am Sean: I thought you had said there was no demand for flights from New Haven? Now, even in a crisis that has slashed demand for air travel, hundreds of people are cramming onto the three flights of 75 seat aircraft. There must be a huge pent-up demand for flights out of Tweed. Frankly, may be demand is even higher now if people who have to fly are reducing their risk by avoiding more crowded airports like LGA and BDL to fly out of fast and uncrowded Tweed.

posted by: CityYankee on March 17, 2020 7:53am 1644—not funny. @sean obrien— Why indeed is the airport not closed or at the very least, screening of people at Tweed, Bradley? Perhaps it is still too early? Or do more people have to get sick and maybe die?

posted by: HavenMaven1638 on March 17, 2020 8:04am Something I haven’t seen addressed anywhere: how does drive-through testing work for those without access to vehicles or someone who can drive them (or assume the risk of driving them)?

posted by: 1644 on March 17, 2020 10:27am Cityyankee, Sean O’Brien: Singling out Tweed is silly. The risk at Tweed is actually less than at other, larger airports. Would you shut down other forms of mass transit, such as buses and trains as well? At least with air travel we can do contact tracing. Screening isn’t a bad idea, but should be done at all airports, particularly more congested one. At this point, international arrivals are being screened and told to self-isolate for two weeks. HavenMaven: It does not work for those without cars. Still, it takes a huge number of potentially infected people out of waiting rooms and keeps them away from others.

posted by: Eureka of New Haven on March 17, 2020 11:45am We should be proud of our New Haven Mayor and Connecticut Governor. They show themselves to be leaders who are not afraid to take unpopular and very difficult measures in the face of a looming and quickly escalating public health crisis. Our healthcare system has taken care of many of us, in sickness and through health, and as a public, we need to pay back in kind: it is now our turn to do our part to support and take care of our Hospitals and healthcare workers and keep them safe and well and healthy. Every individual has a responsibility to their community to keep the most at-risk out of harm’s way, but in the face of a general lack of education, understanding, or social responsibility, Civic servants who are actually unafraid speak and act to help the communities they represent deserve our support. For those who are struggling with Connecticut’s policy and why it is actually prescient, here’s a good visual explanation:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/world/corona-simulator/ I hope residents of New Haven and the State of Connecticut will be able do say they did the right and feel good about doing it. In the absence of being able to safely gather as a community and hold hands physically, let us all hold each other up morally and spiritually. I hope we can all not raise our fists and voices in anger but lift our hands in prayer and gratitude. Knowing local leadership can step in and step up in the face of a national crises that has stymied at the Federal level is something we should all be taking to heart. Thank you, Mayor Elicker and Governor Lamont. I believe our future will be grateful for your leadership.

posted by: ManOnThePulpit on March 17, 2020 1:31pm So about that tax increase…

posted by: Kevin McCarthy on March 17, 2020 1:59pm ManOnThePulpit, I fear that if anything the increase will go up. Not that the city has a lot of good options. It is facing cost increases that it could not reasonably have anticipated. (For example, the cost of providing grab-and-go meals for kids who can’t go to school.) Its revenues are not increasing. And the impending recession is going to cost the state lots of sales tax revenue, reducing the chances of a bail-out.

posted by: ManOnThePulpit on March 17, 2020 2:53pm Kevin, I agree that that’s the most likely answer. Never let a tax increase go to waste here in Connecticut… that said, maybe this should be the time to take a looooong hard look at the budget, set aside some sacred cows that the Alders or other special interest groups want to hold onto, and end them. This city is a service-based economy. With the way the COVID pandemic is going, no one is working and the big seasonal spending force (Yale) is out of town, at least until next semester. That’s a huge loss of revenue and a lot of people are going out of work or have been temporarily laid off/asked not to come in. The 3.5% increase will hit them when they have no more money to give.

posted by: Sean O'Brien @1644 and the rest. YES. I would stop all mass transit as well. What is hard to understand about the seriousness of this quarantine? We are in an actual state of emergency; it would surely close, and has, during a hurricane. Sure, the planes can fly - but are the passengers and everyone they come in contact with safe? The answer is a flat out NO and reinforced by reports of at least one AA pilot with COVID. Tweed is within the Mayor’s power to close, unless I’m gonna hear someone claim the court ruling means he can’t even close it during a state of emergency. So sure, a Tweed critic is the one calling for it, but its a no-brainer if we’re supposed to take the pandemic seriously.

posted by: Patricia Kane on March 17, 2020 4:54pm We could have a voluntary “shelter in place” right now, especially those in the high risk category.

Since we do not have sufficient testing equipment, we can’t identify “hot spots” and act more aggressively. Instead, we have to wait for the coming escalation of cases. In the meantime, people are walking around, spreading the virus because they have NO clue they are positive.

Plans must be made for the homeless. Too bad it took a pandemic for society to care enough to house them.

This pandemic is a game changer. Just as 9/11 marked the end of one era and the “1984” start of another, there will be massive upheavals as our work places shut down and people struggle to cope.

The massive illness and death are just beginning. And they could have been contained if government hadn’t invested in war instead of public health and well-being.

Mayor Elicker and his staff are one of the few bright spots right now.

This is not normal life, people. It’s a pandemic and it kills! We have no vaccine and no treatment. Fortunately 88% will just suffer a bit and recover. But 12% will require hospitalization and some will die.

Gov’t is going to have to institute Universal Basic Income or face riots. Banks should immediately suspend mortgage payments and all credit card debt. Gov’t officials should start negotiating this.

I have no idea how we’ll get thru this election cycle, but it’s time for innovation and creativity.

My wish is for all the health care providers to survive this terrible time and to return home well themselves.

posted by: CatDude on March 17, 2020 4:54pm Justin is such a joke. Telling everyone to keep distance and shelter in place, but has a press conference with people on top of him and then visits a senior center? This guy is going to kill people.

posted by: darnell on March 17, 2020 4:56pm Is Mayor Elicker going to shelter in place? Was he tested before he boasted the seniors at Bella Vista? Who is going to pick up our rioter paper, food, medicines, and all the other little stuff which we depend on? Who is going to go shopping for my 77 year old uncle while I’m locked down? Should I just let my dog walk herself while I’m locked in the house? Who is going to decide who can be out and who can’t? What criteria will they use? Will we given “papers” like my ancestors had to carry 155 years ago? What will happen to me if I break the shelter in place order, will you throw me in a jail and increase my off of getting the virus you trying to stop? Will you overload the already strained court system with folks who want to engage in their god given and constitutional right for free travel? Attorney Pattis, sign me up as one of your plaintiffs!

posted by: CityYankee on March 17, 2020 5:12pm Dear Paul—- and they say City Yankee is harsh and negative??? @CatDude: it is the official’s job to be out there cheering the people. He knows the risk but has a higher purpose maybe and is willing to risk himself. @Darnell—love ya, buuuuut… sounds like someone has been inside too long!..... take a breath, bring Fluffy outside, chill. You know it is right to stay isolated where and when possible and will use your good judgment!

posted by: darnell on March 17, 2020 5:27pm @CityYankee, I have been inside too long. I don’t mind self quarantining, but I have a real problems with government officials telling me what I can and cannot do while they don’t follow the same rules. I have things to do, I have three relatives in the hospital, and a 77 year old uncle who has no other family. I can’t depend on Elicker or anyone else to care for my family, or anyone else’s. I have been fighting to make sure that ALL the school employees get paid, though some staff and board

members have opposed. And, she is not Fluffy, her name is Sassy, and she mirrors her name. She is a chihuahua menace who thinks she can chase deer and coyotes. Her bark is definitely bigger than her bite. I can’t let her outside alone.

posted by: Gretchen Pritchard on March 17, 2020 6:35pm “Responding to a message he has heard from some ministers, Elicker noted that the churches rely on in-person contributions from parishioners to stay in business. He urged people to donate money to their churches online.” Whoa, Justin: except for maybe for megachurches with advanced tech as part of their business plan, do you really think this is a realistic suggestion?? Maybe you should ask some community members whether this is a seriously out-of-touch comment, before you go on the record with it. Also (and more importantly): there is a huuuuge amount of ignorance and misinformation in these comments (51 comments and counting). With reference to an issue of this level of gravity and importance, where spreading false information can do real harm, I suggest the Independent needs to reply to inaccurate comments with accurate facts, or even block them. Or else allow readers to reply, or at least to “LIKE,” specific comments.

posted by: Patricia Kane on March 17, 2020 7:54pm @CatDude: you must have missed the videos of Justin playing the piano and entertaining the folks at Bella Vista when he was campaigning. I personally found it very touching.

I also find it touching that he returned to check on their well-being.

Some people call it a human connection.

I welcome its return.

posted by: Noteworthy on March 17, 2020 8:24pm Twilight Zone Notes: 1. Beaming up of all places, California - the hallmark of stupid ideas. 2. If Elicker thinks for one minute that I will remain in my house on his orders - he can send the cops over now. It will never happen. Mr. Pattis can add me to the plaintiffs list. 3. We have three cases - out of 135,000 people. Three. Any dead? No. Elicker averages 5 dead a month from opioid overdoses and many more overdoses, just not dead in any single month. I don’t see him wringing his hands over that stat. 4. It is no wonder you can’t find toilet paper and hand sanitizer when leadership exhibits this level of hysteria and dreams of people control. Where is the adult in the room that tells this mayor not to freak out and start shrieking at the stars. 5. People need to stay 10 feet apart; if you’re sick or old, stay home; wash your hands thoroughly and if you think you have symptoms, call your doctor first. Get the test. Take action. 6. If people get together to pray, that’s a good thing. Maybe Elicker only believes in church attendance or prayer when it comes to action before the vote, not after it. 7. Bottom Line: Shelter in place is a stupid, irrational idea born in the tin foil hats of people who eat too much tofu and wear sunblock in the winter. It’s also a huge personal liberty infringement. It’s time to quick being girly and start rationally thinking things through. 8. Asked about what the Elicker Administration would do for restaurants, gyms and small business in New Haven? Crickets. He’s got nothing but Mother State and Mother Feds - nothing but an impending tax hike on all those people who more than ever, can least afford it.

posted by: Elmer's Glue on March 17, 2020 8:25pm Shelter in place ASAP for two weeks or until ‘the curve is bent’ around here. It will save lives, perhaps hundreds in the NH area alone. It is a necessity. It has to be done. It will also create enormous complications. Managing those has to be the number one focus now.

posted by: ManOnThePulpit on March 17, 2020 8:34pm “Shelter In Place?” Good luck with that. This isn’t a totalitarian regime and that’s gonna be a hard no from a Constitutionality standpoint.

posted by: ManOnThePulpit on March 17, 2020 8:37pm As a practical matter, “shelter in place” orders will hurt the city’s limping economy more than help contain the virus… https://reason.com/2020/03/17/stop-it-with-the-coronavirus-curfews-already/

posted by: ManOnThePulpit on March 17, 2020 8:41pm Noteworthy gets it. I’m astounded that people are clamoring for totalitarianism… but maybe I shouldn’t be given that Bernie “I’m not a Communist” Sanders is so popular up here.

posted by: Elmer's Glue on March 17, 2020 8:50pm The Reason article is full of sophistic arguments which the ongoing experience of Italians and South Koreans completely gives the lie to. A democracy can legitimately set up health restrictions during a health emergency, without becoming a totalitarian state. I wish the conservatives here would get their talking points straight. Is Elicker the new Stalin? Or a hapless and ineffectual dweeb? Shelter in place, now. Think of the people you know who are over 50 or have preexisting conditions and ask what you would do to see them alive twelve months from now.

posted by: Thomas Alfred Paine on March 17, 2020 10:26pm We are under a state of emergency nationally, state-wide, and locally. Leaders at every level are making efforts to keep people safe and sound.

Extreme crises sometimes warrant extreme responses.

Some lawyers and politicians might grandstand and propose court challenges to tough measures and decisions which may have to be taken to keep people safe.

Almost everything has been shut down, and access to certain places has been severely restricted.

No one likes their freedom limited, but suppose government fails to meet the challenges that may lie ahead, and Connecticut winds up like ITALY with hundreds dying daily.

Then there could be complaints that our leaders have failed us, and there would be public demands for orders to compel residents to shelter in place!

People like Norm Pattis would be run put of town on a rail! There would be widespread panic, the likes of which we have not seen in our lifetime!

The waters in which we now tread are essentially uncharted. Political leaders make their decisions based on the best medical advice they can get. There may be errors along the way, but city and state leaders’ sincerity here should not be questioned, even though their judgment might be.

We do not know what the future may hold, but the future will be better for us all if we work together for the common good, rather than fomenting futile and divisive court challenges to fight leaders who only want to protect human lives from a spreading virus.

Save the tough talk for the coronavirus, and put some constructive action behind it to keep more people safe.

There will be some uncomfortable, inconvenient, isolated days ahead, but one day, like other greatctrials in our national history, THIS too shall pass!

posted by: Billy on March 17, 2020 10:42pm @Kevin McCarthy: the grab and go meals for kids will not cost anything extra. They are reimbursed by the USDA just like the SFSP program which provides food to kids in the summer. The efforts of the NHPS Food Service Director, Gail Sharry, NHPS COO, Mike Pinto, the City’s Food System Policy Director, Latha Swamy, folks at the State Department of Education and Rosa DeLauro’s office, and others to make sure kids could got food so quickly was a bright spot during these trying times.

posted by: ElmCityAle on March 17, 2020 10:51pm While I often agree with, and sometimes even cheer comments by Noteworthy, they are on the wrong side of medical science and history this time. We know that, in proven fact now, it is not a good thing for people to get together to pray at this time, because the orthodox Jewish communities with the highest rates of transmission over the past few weeks are those that did exactly that - regular daily prayer services in addition to Sabbath services. That is why many Jewish schools and congregations have closed in the NY area - it’s already late, but hopefully better late than never in terms of reducing the spread of COVID-19. It is wise to shelter in place as much as possible. Any suggestions to the contrary are based upon whim rather than science. Now is the time to be smart, not to flex one’s rebellious inclinations - save your strength, energy, and health for fights that matter in the future.

posted by: Eureka of New Haven on March 17, 2020 11:05pm The measures taken may indeed hurt an unwell, limping economy, but perhaps a cost worth paying to help prevent too many of our brothers or sisters or neighbors from getting sick and possibly dying this fiscal year. Perhaps there are citizens who find suggested, expert recommendations of epidemiologically driven advice too much to take to possibly save a life (or two, to be conservative) in their own community, and that is why there is such disparate, disagreeable posting above. I would hope our New Haven community could show love and compassion and understanding and grace and mercy at this unprecedented moment, but I am of neither politics nod pulpit. Just a citizen hoping and praying our diverse communities can come together and rise to the challenge of putting aside our prejudices and politics and posturing to think about lives and not numbers and dollars. May all our loved ones come out of this crisis unscathed but it likely will not be so.

posted by: Eureka of New Haven on March 17, 2020 11:20pm The conversations with neighbors, relatives, lawyers, pastors, churches, co-workers, politicians, businesses, friends, enemies, pets… WOW. Dialogue is all good, but this IS a virus we’re discussing… anybody talking to their doctor or infectious disease specialist? No? Maybe s/he doesn’t have time for you right now.

posted by: PortTack on March 17, 2020 11:55pm In a public health emergency such as this one, success looks like overreaction. I’d much rather shelter in place for 2 or even 4 weeks, and celebrate the lift of the ban by supporting our favorite local establishments, than find myself in a triage tent set up in a YNHH parking garage because there are no more hospital beds or ventilators.

posted by: Kevin McCarthy on March 18, 2020 7:11am Billy, I share your appreciation of the NHPS and city staff who have put together the emergency school feeding program.You’re right that this is a bright spot, and that the feds will in time reimburse the city for its direct costs. But there will be indirect costs.

posted by: Whatacity on March 18, 2020 8:11am I’m with Norm. He has no authority to do that. He can ask, by he can’t enforce it.

posted by: Thomas Alfred Paine on March 18, 2020 9:08am Are there any other lawyers in Connecticut in agreement with Norm Pattis?

Pettis has a propensity to promote himself and propel his name in the press. We hope he would not use a national health crisis to cast himself as a defender of civil rights and become the center of attention.

History has show that government can use extreme powers in the midst of extreme and dangerous circumstances to protect the lives and welfare of citizens. This precedent has long been established.

Over half of those who took the NHI poll support the idea of shelter in place. It is already the reality in several American cities.

If Pattis goes to court to challenge the mayor, the governor or the president should an order to shelter in place be deemed warranted, he and his followers would surely lose.

posted by: ManOnThePulpit on March 18, 2020 9:15am Whatacity - EXACTLY. I think everyone in their right mind understands that people should stay home - and that’s where I differ from Noteworthy’s reply. Otherwise, government has no constitutional means to force people to stay home even in a crisis. We’re a democratic republic, not a totalitarian state, and the right of the individual is upheld (it’s even the first 10 amendments to the Constitution… including that loathed and feared second one…). Government has no ability and no place in forcing people to stay indoors. Should they? YES. But, and here’s the critical BUT, that decision is an individual one. That’s partly what makes dealing with COVID so tricky. As a practical matter, forcing the issue and telling business to close even for takeout/carryout will cripple what little economic lifeline New Haven has left. I see a lot of “WELL GOOD, PANIC NOW AND WE CAN FIX IT LATER” comments. That’s not the right answer. Just like quarantining against a pandemic, taking sensible and proactive measures prior to a steep economic downturn makes it much, much, MUCH easier to recover from. And, as a small-government ‘libertarian-ish’ moderate, seeing the calls for universal basic income (to come from where exactly?) and more government control is astonishingly short-sighted. This is the same Federal government that 1/2 of you were vowing to “RESIST” back in 2016, who were convinced that the LGBTQ+ population would be rounded up like Holocaust 2.0, and now you want to give the same government MORE POWER? Really?

posted by: Whatacity on March 18, 2020 9:19am You guys are as bad as the totalitarian mayor we have by editing my comment. Freaking leftist media [Paul: Thanks for your comments. It’s true—we chose not to publish your German allusion to Nazis to characterize people you disagree with. Those are our rules. Other news outlets will enable such comments to be published without editing. We’re trying not to descend into the pit of all-out hate and brawling.]

posted by: darnell on March 18, 2020 9:51am @Thomas Alfred Paine The NHI “True Vote” is NOT a poll, in any sense of the word. Anyone can vote multiple times by switching browsers, etc., and even if it were I would not consider 49% (a 30 vote plurality) as over half. “History has show that government can use extreme powers in the midst of extreme and dangerous circumstances to protect the lives and welfare of citizens. This precedent has long been established.” Let’s review US gover extreme powers uses.

1. Displacement and outright murder of Native Americans (my families tribe in VA were victims of this practice).

2. Enslavement if Native Americans and Africans to drive the southern economic engine.

3. The rounding up is Asian Americans into prison camps, and to a lesser extent German and Italian Americans, during WWII.

4. Jim Crow, and the chain gangs driven by US laws.

5. Lynchings, often in concert with local govt and law enforcement officials (my uncle was a victim).

6. The Tuskegee Experiment as well as forced sterilizations of Blacks and poor people.

7. The infiltration of civil rights movement organizations. Just to name a few. I disagree with Mr. Pattis more than I agree with him, but on this one I totally agree. My govt can nicely ask me to comply with their “suggestions”, they cannot lecture me and demand that I do what they say and imprison myself while they continue to enjoy the pleasure of freedom.

posted by: Atticus Shrugged on March 18, 2020 10:10am @NHI - Perhaps you should do an article/interview regarding what people think the role of government is. And what risks we are willing to take as a society. It is clear that there is a divide between your readers. Some of that may be because they intrinsically support the mayor, others could be because they believe the role of government is to keep safe, and others may disagree because they don’t trust the mayor or they don’t believe that the trade-off between keep safe and stay at home is worth it. At a certain point, we as a society accept risks of injury that the government can permit: we allow guns, cars, cigarettes, alcohol, etc. And we allow people to make choices that may negatively impact others (shooting death, drunk driving, second hand smoke induced cancer, alcoholism induced damage). And we don’t force vaccinations although we know it would save lives. Indeed, our legislature can’t get a bill through requiring the immediate and forced vaccination of children that our collective tax dollars pay to educate. Yes, the death associated with each of the aforementioned items individually would be much slower than that of the novel coronavirus but annually, the aforementioned exceed the amount we currently anticipate in a worst case scenario. And more importantly, they reproduce year over year. I’m not suggesting we do nothing, but I am asking that you do an article about how Ned, Justin, and perhaps some citizens see the role of government and look to inconsistencies. And then letting people comment.

posted by: Elmer's Glue on March 18, 2020 10:15am If anyone thinks that an order to shelter-in-place that is necessary to save the lives of hundreds or thousands of vulnerable New Haven residents and is currently being imposed for similar reasons in sane, first-world countries like Italy and South Korea is THE SAME THING AS

“1. Displacement and outright murder of Native Americans (my families tribe in VA were victims of this practice).

2. Enslavement if Native Americans and Africans to drive the southern economic engine.

3. The rounding up is Asian Americans into prison camps, and to a lesser extent German and Italian Americans, during WWII.

4. Jim Crow, and the chain gangs driven by US laws.

5. Lynchings, often in concert with local govt and law enforcement officials (my uncle was a victim).” etc., that comment should be disqualifying for participation in local politics.

posted by: Patricia Kane on March 18, 2020 10:16am @TAP. Let’s not lose focus as to what’s appropriate to do in this pandemic and not spend time on the contrarians.

If someone believes there is a Constitutional issue, let that person bring suit and let the courts sort it out.

We have lessons to be learned from China, South Korea and now the UK. Delays in testing, and testing only ill people, allow the transmission of the virus exponentially. This is preventable, but we are ill prepared.

We can’t afford diversions. There is information streaming daily and both the Mayor and Governor are showing real leadership in trying to be proactive and not just reactive.

It appears that many people are voluntarily staying home, although many places of business decided to shut down for now.

Either way, reducing social contacts works to slow down the transmission and buys us time.

posted by: darnell on March 18, 2020 10:36am @Wlmers Glue, All of those actions were conducted to protect the public health and safety . If you can’t see the similarities, it is probably the result of you and your family not belonging to any of those targeted groups. When your family is rounded up ( Latino refugees - THEM) and put into a camp in order to protect “the general public” - US, then you will probably change your tune. If anyone doesn’t think that Trump and his people aren’t already meeting and planning to use this crisis to their advantage, then I have a bridge to sell you. We aren’t inching toward martial law and loss of constitutional rights, we are heading at full steam ahead. Trump says almost everyday that he has extreme powers and is immune to the law. Study history to see where we are heading. People said MLK Jr , the Black Panthers and others were being paranoid when they insinuated government interference, we now see how involved government was with destroying those people and movements. What’s even more scary to me is that you would suggest that I should be disqualified form public service because I have an opinion different than yours. That was very Trump of you.

posted by: Atticus Shrugged on March 18, 2020 10:40am Being contrarian isn’t per se bad. It just means you’re taking the other side as someone else. The use of the phrase is generally meant to be dismissive, by suggesting that people are merely arguing against you to simply argue. But if someone thinks that a 1-3% mortality rate is fine and is willing to accept the risks, that doesn’t make their argument worth dismissing - it just means they have a different risk tolerance than you. I understand that people think there is a right thing to do. And there may be. But this is novel, and we’re learning new information every day. For example, if the virus can last in the air for hours - is there a truly safe way to grocery shop? If we self-quarantine for 3 weeks, and the diseases can be virulent for up to 30 days, what happens when re-transmission begins? Can we trust that the federal government will have figured it out and supply chains will be up and running. And, again, why should someone who is OK with that risk have to bear it solely because you are not. It does a disservice to merely label people and suggest you know better. If you know better, explain it and try to help educate people as to why their fears may be invalid. Some people would rather have their freedom and live with the estimated death rate. Perhaps the government should allow those who want to shelter in place to do so without workplace ramifications. It’s more or less our gun policy flipped, you can have one but you don’t have to. You can shelter, but we won’t force you.

posted by: Kevin McCarthy on March 18, 2020 11:16am Atticus, I think your risk tolerance point is inapt. If someone has a higher risk tolerance than me and wants to go sky-diving, that’s fine. Their choice does not implicate my health or safety. But unless you believe that COVID 19 is not contagious, that argument does not apply.

posted by: 1644 on March 18, 2020 11:17am Gretchen Pritchard: Lots of churches have on-line donations, and in fact encourage members to give on-line. Here is the link for Center Church:

https://centerchurchonthegreen.org/giving/donate-online/

For United Church:

https://app.clovergive.com/app/Form/b2df43b5-faba-49a6-92ab-377fb74572f2

For Trinity:

https://onrealm.org/TrinityOnGreen/-/give/general

For Varick:

http://www.varickmemorial.org/giving.aspx?parentnavigationid=24709

For Mount Gideon:

https://www.mtgideon.org/index.php/online-donations

posted by: Eureka of New Haven on March 18, 2020 11:31am @Atticus Shrugged

Interesting topic for NHI to tackle—it would definitely keep this readership engaged :).

It is clear that the positions posted are more about concerns for civil rights vs government than the actual priorities of illness, healthcare burden, and death. At least folks seem to be in SOME agreement that sheltering in place (whether government dictated or not) has wisdom. It is puzzling why learning stops at action within certain individuals. Truth be told, I don’t intrinsically support the mayor, nor do I believe the role of government is to “keep safe”, and I don’t trust politicians - ever. But those discriminations don’t obscure what’s real and what’s needed and don’t prevent me from recognizing when civic servants choose to do the right thing. I both chuckle and grimace at the facile use of the term “totalitarianism” in reference to our City and State. Those who use the term so easily, I would guess, have never actually lived in one—as someone who survived a totalitarian government for six years, I find that characterization of our government disrespectful, naïve, alarmist and extreme, and offensive and belittling to those who are living under regimes of real dictatorship. An ‘order’ to ‘shelter in place’ isn’t Marshall Law or enforced curfews. There’s no question our government officials can always do better, but I can’t help but wonder if those who are hyper-critical would prefer to be in Italy, or South Korea, or some other more democratic, free-thinking country than ourselves.

posted by: Elmer's Glue on March 18, 2020 11:48am When the National Weather Service tells people to shelter in place because a hurricane is bearing down upon them, this infringement of their personal liberty is designed to keep them where they feel most safe and protected and to save their lives. When the slave dealers or Andrew Jackson or the KKK or the CIA or other horrible organizations went about their work, the first thing they did was to take people OUT of their homes, send them to places where they were miserable and helpless, and then proceed to injure or kill them. If you can’t see any difference between these examples, God help you.

posted by: Atticus Shrugged on March 18, 2020 11:56am @Kevin, thank you. I’m sure you see them differently. But drinking is a risk behavior that does not solely impact the individual who drinks. There are an average of 10k fatalities with alcohol each year. Minor risk in a nation of +300M, but in a decade that’s 100k people. Wouldn’t be hard to force manufacturers to install breathalizers to prevent this. But they don’t. And I wouldn’t want them to, despite the potential for reduced harm. The flu kills between 10k and 60k people per year. Again, not huge numbers. But we could get that number significantly lower by mandating a vaccination. We don’t. We as a society have said, OK, your freedom to not be vaccinated or to drink alcohol outweighs the risk of harm we know you will pose to your fellow man. The CDC reports that second hand smoke causes more than 48k deaths per year, but we still allow people to smoke. By in large, the second hand smoke victims did not agree (at least not until recently) with the risk that smokers take. I get it, none of those are completely parallel. But they each involve individual choices to expose oneself and others to known harms that could be prevented by either sheltering in place, or forcing people to lose a portion of what we know as their liberty. And not smoking would impact far fewer people than sheltering in place. Not allowing gun ownership would impact less people and would arguably reduce 14,000 murders per year. I don’t necessarily expect anyone to agree with me. The novel coronavirus is more dangerous over a shorter period of time. But if the justification is simply to save lives or freedom, the question is when does enough lives constitute a basis for forgoing constitutional freedom and are we only concerned with short term bursts/spikes or also long-term effects.

posted by: 1644 on March 18, 2020 12:15pm Kevin McCarthy: Re-read Atticus’s comment. He gives several examples of activities we allow which endanger innocent third parties. Overall, I am unsure what the game-plan is. Are will still trying containment, or just flattening the curve? Contrary to Elicker’s statement, the Bay Area is shutting down because it is way behind the curve, and playing catch-up. The Imperial College study insinuates that to keep premature deaths to 200K, we may need to be in lock-down for five months to a year. California is planning on keeping schools shut at least for five months: no summer sessions.

The Treasury is warning of 20% unemployment if we don’t act, but it seems that months long lock-downs would result in the same or worse. Economic downturns have costs in lives just as epidemics do.

posted by: OverTheRiverThruTheHood on March 18, 2020 12:40pm MAYOR ELICKER, PLEASE ISSUE THE ORDER NOW!

Many of us who are fully capable of working from home are still being asked by our employers to come into the office. I work in one of the large office buildings in New Haven and several people I work with went to a conference last week where there have been confirmed cases. My supervisor just made an appointment for me to go on a face to face meeting an hour away on Monday.

MY BOSS ISN’T GOING TO DO THE RIGHT THING VOLUNTARILY.

posted by: Elmer's Glue on March 18, 2020 12:41pm NHI - I really appreciate 1644’s posting links of places to donate to. (Though I want to know whether the funds are going to food pantries or services before I donate.) Can you set up a master directory of non-profits, food pantries, etc. both secular and religious, who are requesting donations that will go directly to help New Haven or Greater New Haven Residents directly affected by this crisis? Just a big list, lightly curated, would be great. We would gladly give $10 apiece to ten or twenty different local groups, and I’m sure lots of people who read the NHI would too. Because right now there is no place to find such information. (You can’t really Google it and figure out which ones are legit.) Thanks.

posted by: 1644 on March 18, 2020 12:42pm Here is the Imperial College modeling that is now driving the US & UK response:

https://www.imperial.ac.uk/media/imperial-college/medicine/sph/ide/gida-fellowships/Imperial-College-COVID19-NPI-modelling-16-03-2020.pdf

posted by: Heather C. on March 18, 2020 1:11pm Mother Nature is coming and she is pissed! While I don’t like the thought of people being forced to shelter in place, I see nothing wrong with quarantine orders for the people who are diagnosed with the Covid-19. The problem is we have to assume based on how contagious this virus is, that everyone has been or will be exposed. And while some people will only experience mild symptoms, some people are extra vulnerable to this virus and will die. The purpose of self isolation and social distancing is to slow down the exposure to the virus so our medical facilities aren’t overwhelmed by the numbers of severely ill people. So a temporary shelter in place is our only weapon at this time to slow the spread and reduce the numbers needing hospital care at the same time. Hopefully anti-vital drugs will be discovered soon for this, but the scientists are saying it could be a year or more for a vaccine, and they don’t know yet enough about the virus to tell us how long we will be in this state of crisis. Unfortunately there are lots of people who are willfully ignorant about this disease and are still gathering in large groups, who are not taking preventative hygiene measures, who don’t believe it is as bad as it is. You could just let nature thin the idiots in the herd, but they are exposing people who have to be out for absolutely necessary reasons, like getting groceries and meds, first responders and medical staff who continue to serve our society despite the risk to themselves. Typhoid Mary had to be arrested before she stopped infecting people, even though she knew she was ill, she persisted in working as a cook. There were enforced quarantines for polio epidemics and other epidemics in our country, there is legal precedent for protecting the safety and health of the general public by restricting the activity of the infected, and those who have been exposed to the infected.

posted by: robn on March 18, 2020 1:14pm How ironic is it that for three very painful years we’ve had to put up with a president (and his sycophantic supporters) who is undeservingly bombastic and childishly hyperbolic. And now that we need fast action and urgent messaging, the response from most republicans and conservatives has been anemic and underwhelming. Pathetic and traitorous.

posted by: darnell on March 18, 2020 1:24pm @ Elmer’s Glue

So you differentiate your levels of acceptable confinement. It’s OK for house arrest, but relocation to another facility isn’t OK. Question, would you be OK with an ankle bracelet or some other tracking device attached to folks to make sure they are not congregating? Would a GPS device inserted in the body be more problematic? Maybe you would settle for some of us to be issued “papers” which could be demanded by any one in authority at any time? Who would make these decisions and what voice would the common man have? Would it be ok to intern Asians because our Great Leader and some of his supporters in Congress has called this a “Chinese virus”? What gives the mayor, elected with about 10,000 votes, the right to “order” the trampling of constitutional rights? How are those rights triggered and who is involved in that decision making process? The Tuskegee medical experiments on black men destroyed men and their families in their own homes, there was no need to relocate them. The same with the Guatemala experiments led by the US which infected hundreds of citizens of that country in the name of science and “saving and protecting” the people. How is it OK for the mayor and his health director, who probably haven’t been tested, visit the seniors at Bella Vista, yet I cannot visit my elderly uncle at Tower One? Why are so willing to so quickly give up your rights without asking so much as one question? I’m not so willing, and I bet those Tuskegee lab rats wish they hadn’t also.

posted by: robn on March 18, 2020 1:31pm The US Constitution was not designed to limit freedom. Its was designed to limit behavior that would limit others freedom. Behavior like murder, or theft, or irresponsibly travelling and congregating in the face of a statistical certainty that this behavior will lead to the death of numerous other citizens.

posted by: darnell on March 18, 2020 1:35pm @Heather C The problem with your argument is that we DO NOT know with any certainty who is infected. When we closed Nathan Hale last week because someone MAY have had symptoms associated with the virus, I asked the health director of that person had been tested a week later. The answer was NO. I then asked if the person was going to be tested, the answer was again NO. No explanation as to why not. My guess it was probably because tests weren’t available. And it appears that has not changed nearly 2 weeks later. So how are we supposed to determine who is infected and who is not? I had heartburn from something I ate a day ago, and it gave me a sore throat. Am I supposed to quarantine for 14 days because of that? There isn’t clear info coming out, just orders and doomsday predictions. Staying home for the most part is something I chosen to do to protect my family, but it is a choice that I made, not an order by someone who 3 months ago ran a land trust and organized gardens. Or a state leader who ran a money fund. And I’m certainly not willing to follow the Great Leader’s orders without having more information and a voice in my imprisonment.

posted by: Elmer's Glue on March 18, 2020 1:56pm I’m done trying to talk reason to a person who suspects that our mayor, Justin Elicker, may be using a stay-at-home alert as a pretext to murder, enslave, or sterilize the entire population of New Haven. Honestly, in addition to being ridiculous, it dishonors and diminished the suffering of the historical victims to even venture the comparison. Let’s focus on the real enemy, coronavirus. And let’s take extreme measures now so that more people survive and so that we can return to something more like a normal way of life sooner. BEND THE CURVE! We have a lot of practical problems to solve. Deciding whether Justin and Maritza Bond are the second coming of Pol Pot is simply a waste of time.

posted by: 1644 on March 18, 2020 2:02pm robn: You realize the Republican Senate is about pass the House’s response bill, no? Plus, more.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/18/congress-emergency-coronavirus-stimulus-package-135444

At the national level, our response has been similar to other liberal democracies, which are also playing catch-up. Trump isn’t admired in France or Germany, but the response in those nations is similar to here. Japan is having problems. Korea is the only liberal democratic state that has responded well, something I attribute in part to its Confucian heritage. Korean teachers don’t sport “Question Authority” bumper stickers.

posted by: robn on March 18, 2020 2:12pm 1644, The difference is that all of those problems in those other countries you mentioned…happened in the past. We squandered the time we had to react because republicans and conservatives not limited to Donald Trump or Mitch McConnell, explicitly denied that there was an emerging problem. The only person hustling a response was Nancy Pelosi. Don Lemon has it exactly right. Trump and his syncophants (which now apparently includes you) are now gaslighting us that they’ve been on top of it the entire time. Ridiculous.

posted by: Kevin McCarthy on March 18, 2020 2:34pm Elmer’s Glue, I’m sure Paul is working on the list you suggested in his ample free time.😊 In the meantime, you and others may want to check out 211ct.org, which has links to pantries and other human needs providers in the area. Among the groups I can recommend are Sunrise Cafe, Loaves and Fishes, and IRIS.

posted by: darnell on March 18, 2020 2:34pm @elmer’s glue, I never suggested or write that I suspect Elicker of trying to murder, enslave, or sterilize entire populations, even though your people have done so to my people less than 50 years ago. What I am saying, and I think you are reasonably intelligent and probably already know, questioning the government doesn’t make you the opposition or anti Elicker, it makes you a good and caring citizen. If You don’t like differences of opinions or probing questions of our government, them perhaps North Korea may be a better fit for you, their form of citizen control seems to be something our president has suggested he would like to replicate, and you seem to be leaning towards. Suggesting the lie that I think Elicker and Bond are the second coming of Pol Pot is a truly the discussion loser’s way out, it is the equivalent of sticking out your younger and crossing your eyes. Not very well thought out or responsive to the actual discussion. And, finally, as many of you with this special privilege do, you try to diminish MY reaction to MY ancestors suffering. My great grandfather and great great grandmother were enslaved. Another great great grandfather escaped slavery from Louisiana at 11 years old. My Native American great grandmother was forced to have 4 children by her enslaver. I would respectfully suggest that you cease from suggesting that I dishonor my ancestor victims. I’m suggesting respectfully at this point, but willing be so respectful in the future.

posted by: darnell on March 18, 2020 2:39pm https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/16/us/coronavirus-hype-overreaction-social-distancing.html

Some Ask a Taboo Question: Is America Overreacting to Coronavirus?

posted by: Elmer's Glue on March 18, 2020 2:40pm Thank you, Kevin. I am pledging to donate $100 today to the three places you mentioned, and I would invite, in the spirit of good will, as many commenters to join me in pledging as much as you reasonably feel you can afford to these or other basic-needs organizations.

posted by: Atticus Shrugged on March 18, 2020 2:41pm @Robn - I’m not certain I agree with your interpretation of the origins of the constitution. But I’m pretty sure that the second amendment, at least arguable, protects the right to bear arms or what is now gun ownership. And I’m fairly certain that murder, which was a crime at common law prior to 1776, did not arise after we ratified the constitution. There is no greater deprivation of right, arguably, than the taking of life. Could you please provide support for your proposition? Also, the constitution - State and Federal - guarantee the right of free assembly (The citizens have a right, in a peaceable manner, to assemble for their common good.). The phrase common good is not defined but is generally left to the discretion of people to figure out. I am sympathetic with people who would compare a stay in place order with totalitarianism but do agree that there is a difference. The question is what method the state/city would use to enforce it. Also, I have serious questions that the Mayor has legal authority to do this even under his emergency powers. @Heather - yes, there were quarantines for polio but they weren’t necessarily effective at stopping the spread of the disease (https://www.si.edu/spotlight/antibody-initiative/polio). More importantly, we still don’t require people to get polio vaccines despite how virulent it is. Yes, it’s virtually been eradicated but only virtually due to a few smart people getting vaccinated. But we give people the choice to risk getting it or letting their kids get it. But let’s not use legal precedent be a driving force. There are many times we look back and can say that we should have not foregone our freedoms for the sake of “security.”

posted by: 1644 on March 18, 2020 3:16pm Rob: Read the news, or talk to friends in those countries. What is happening here now is what is happening in most of Europe and the UK. Europe and the UK squandered time no less than we did, for the same reasons, because of the economic damage of suppression and because they, too, value individual liberty and freedom of movement. Italy could have shut down its tourist industry, but that would have come at a huge economic cost. Don Lemon is not a reliable source on Trump or Republicans. He suffers from TDS induced by policy differences on matters other than public health, as, I believe, do you. Read the Imperial College report. Yes, Trump is Pollyannaish. He is a salesman. I did not vote for him. But regardless of his personal faults, Merkel, Johnson, Macron, whoever is in charge today in Italy, Trudeau, and in Calif., Newsom and Breed were as head-in-the-sand, hope-for-the best as Trump. The Left Coast has the most cases, and the left-wing governors could ha