Former federal prosecutor Mimi Rocah said there’s a sure sign that Rudy Giuliani, personal attorney to President Donald Trump, knows he’s in serious trouble.

“He’s apparently been declining to go on TV and give interviews,” Rocah, former assistant U.S. attorney in the Southern District of New York, said on MSNBC on Thursday. “When I saw that, I thought Giuliani actually knows that there’s real trouble.”

Rocah added:

We’ve talked for two years about Giuliani can’t stay off of television and doing interviews and admitting things left and right. So he’s finally quiet, which tells me that he knows he’s in some hot water here.

Earlier in the day, former U.S. attorneys Barbara McQuade and Joyce Vance published a column as a “thought experiment” that outlined three charges Giuliani could face based on the public record: conspiracy to interfere with the fair administration of elections, conspiracy to commit bribery and contempt of Congress.

According to The New York Times, Giuliani is a “person of interest” in two federal investigations.

See Rocah’s discussion with Brian Williams in the clip above.