Warial said: For now I only looked at excerpts from History of Liao (辽史), otherwise I'm actually still researching this part. I'm slowly working on a mod making the setup more historical, but for now I'm focusing on Tanguts. Click to expand...

This is possibly more a matter for the modding forum, but seeing as a lot of relevant info can be found above I figured that I'd might just as well post here for feedback.Altering the 1220 setup proved relatively straightforward, with the Song Empire reemerging if Genghis Khan is controlled by the player. I also removed Xias tributary status as they refused to help Genghis Khan against Khwarezmia and were therefor the target of a subsequent invasion. I'm also considering changing the CB for the Invasion of Khwarezmia to Subjugation as the AI handles Invasion really poorly and the region has been divided in multiple de jure kingdoms since that start date was last revised. Possibly with follow up events that automatically revokes all demesne of the Khwarezmid dynasty (similar to the assistance William the Conqueror receives at the Stamford Bridge start date).Now I'm at a crossroads regarding the transition between Song and Yuan. The initial (and obvious) choice was 1271 when the Yuan dynasty was established and Kublai Khan officially claimed the Mandate of Heaven. This would allow us to squeeze in two Song Emperors, Lizong between 1234-1264 (actually from 1224) and Duzong between 1264-1271 (actually until 1274). However, this introduces issues in the power relations between Ariq Böke, Kaidu and Kublai.Möngke Khan campaigns in China from 1251 until his death in 1259. This is perfectly represented by an ordinary invasion of China during this years, with the combined might of the Mongol empires and with Kublai (as a courtier with Möngke) being the claimant. After Möngke's death, Kublai returns from China only to learn that Ariq Böke has claimed the throne. Naturally, the Ariq Böke should rule Mongolia from 1259-1264 when he's defeated by Kublai, but where should Kublai be during these years? If he's a courtier with Ariq Böke (with decent prestige and a rivalry) he could potentially murder his brother and inherit. Not super accurate, but it's not very likely that a player would start between those dates. Alternatively, he could be a courtier in Ilkhanate, with Hulagu pressing his claim for Mongolia. I don't know how well claim wars function with nomads though.Afterwards, it's tricky. Kublai Khan could rule the Mongol Empire on map until he becomes Emperor of China in 1271, but I'd like to avoid having historical Chinese emperors ever holding territory on the map. Also it inadequately represents Kaidu's influence within Mongolia proper and Chagatai. However, if Kaidu rules Mongolia, what should Kublai do between 1264-1271?My second choice would be moving the transition between Song and Yuan to 1264. Ariq Böke is defeated (which coincides rather well with the death of Lizong, just a few months apart) and Kublai prepares to move the capital from Karakorum to Khanbaliq. This prevents Duzong from being included as a Chinese emperor (not a major issue) but allows Kublai to inherit China (with the Ilkhans as tributaries) and Kaidu to inherit Mongolia (with Chagatai as tributaries). Their relative power is better represented this way.Also, this allows the Kaidu-Kublai war to start at an appropriate time. As mentioned in the original post this is best represented as an Invasion of China, with Chagatai & Golden Horde supporting Kaidu and Ilkhanate and other tributaries supporting Kublai. The obvious choice for a claimant is Khutulun; she's interesting, was her father's favorite child and can't become a claimant to the Khaganate due to being a woman.All in all, I much prefer 1264 to 1271. However, I'd love some input from people more well versed in the regions history.Thank you, that's helpful. I was wondering a bit on the fall of the Tanguts. How close were their ties with the Jin dynasty after refusing to join against Khwarezmia? Could this be represented as vassalage? That would simplify their absorption into the Mongol Empire as the events that follow invasions of china automatically usurps all territory held by the Western Protectorate. Also, after the fall of the Tanguts, the Gansu territory is ruled by the Western Protectorate (i.e. Jin dynasty), is this in any way accurate?