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Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.







DonatorLegendaryActivity: 1736Merit: 1002Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs. Re: How Open Source Projects Survive Poisonous People January 31, 2012, 05:43:28 PM #42 This isn't a competition. This is a volunteer project of some of the smartest SOBs on the planet. We use science and the scientific method to sort out problems. While I agree that there are toxic memes that influence people, hopefully the bitcoin community can move on and the folks that make mistakes can learn from them. It's called redemption. Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.

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LegendaryActivity: 1402Merit: 1013 Re: How Open Source Projects Survive Poisonous People January 31, 2012, 06:12:32 PM #44 Gavin seems to be a very reasonable guy on paper and in person in videos. Gavin is also very transparent. Satoshi, himself, annointed Gavin to lead the bitcoin project. Gavin's voice clearly deserves to be weighted more than others. I believe in Gavin.



I'd like to see a video of Luke to see how really socially normal he is. It is easy to hide behind a keyboard, write BIPs and code. But to take responsibility and ownership of a project and to put your face and reputation on it is another story.

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Mike CaldwellVIPLegendaryActivity: 1386Merit: 1062The Casascius 1oz 10BTC Silver Round (w/ Gold B) Re: How Open Source Projects Survive Poisonous People January 31, 2012, 06:24:06 PM #46 Quote from: jimbobway on January 31, 2012, 06:12:32 PM Gavin seems to be a very reasonable guy on paper and in person in videos. Gavin is also very transparent. Satoshi, himself, annointed Gavin to lead the bitcoin project. Gavin's voice clearly deserves to be weighted more than others. I believe in Gavin.



I'd like to see a video of Luke to see how really socially normal he is. It is easy to hide behind a keyboard, write BIPs and code. But to take responsibility and ownership of a project and to put your face and reputation on it is another story.



+1 +1 Companies claiming they got hacked and lost your coins sounds like fraud so perfect it could be called fashionable. I never believe them. If I ever experience the misfortune of a real intrusion, I declare I have been honest about the way I have managed the keys in Casascius Coins. I maintain no ability to recover or reproduce the keys, not even under limitless duress or total intrusion. Remember that trusting strangers with your coins without any recourse is, as a matter of principle, not a best practice. Don't keep coins online. Use paper or hardware wallets instead.

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LegendaryActivity: 1764Merit: 1002 Re: How Open Source Projects Survive Poisonous People January 31, 2012, 06:57:29 PM #49 Quote from: jimbobway on January 31, 2012, 06:12:32 PM Gavin seems to be a very reasonable guy on paper and in person in videos. Gavin is also very transparent. Satoshi, himself, annointed Gavin to lead the bitcoin project. Gavin's voice clearly deserves to be weighted more than others. I believe in Gavin.



I'd like to see a video of Luke to see how really socially normal he is. It is easy to hide behind a keyboard, write BIPs and code. But to take responsibility and ownership of a project and to put your face and reputation on it is another story.



+1 this is exactly why i support Gavin. he's been even open to talking to me on the telephone several times and has always been transparent and open. i trust him. +1 this is exactly why i support Gavin. he's been even open to talking to me on the telephone several times and has always been transparent and open. i trust him.

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Hero MemberActivity: 558Merit: 500 Re: How Open Source Projects Survive Poisonous People January 31, 2012, 07:02:16 PM

Last edit: January 31, 2012, 07:15:14 PM by Andrew Vorobyov #50 how socially normal he is.... WTF is this... how sick one must be to say things like this...



Luke's behavior on this matter is simply impecable... I can not find any cavity in his position on this matter...



As much I want to break free from position we are stuck in, but I can't dismiss what this guy says...



All of you, developers, are great people... I hope we will go through these days with lot of experience and it will make us stronger as community. Bitrated, LinkedIn

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Full MemberActivity: 203Merit: 100 Re: How Open Source Projects Survive Poisonous People January 31, 2012, 07:07:35 PM #52 Quote no, it actually doesn't. you should make a video concerning your arguments and let the community view it.



this is actually an important point. Gavin is actually someone i'd let babysit my kid.

How are personal issues relevant to choosing the right technical solution again? Maybe we should invite your normal babysitter, what he/she has to say in this, if that is a relevant metric_ How are personal issues relevant to choosing the right technical solution again? Maybe we should invite your normal babysitter, what he/she has to say in this, if that is a relevant metric_ Bloom Editor - awesome 3D text editor.

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LegendaryActivity: 1764Merit: 1002 Re: How Open Source Projects Survive Poisonous People January 31, 2012, 07:12:01 PM #53 Quote from: Killdozer on January 31, 2012, 07:07:35 PM Quote no, it actually doesn't. you should make a video concerning your arguments and let the community view it.



this is actually an important point. Gavin is actually someone i'd let babysit my kid.

How are personal issues relevant to choosing the right technical solution again? Maybe we should invite your normal babysitter, what he/she has to say in this, if that is a relevant metric_

How are personal issues relevant to choosing the right technical solution again? Maybe we should invite your normal babysitter, what he/she has to say in this, if that is a relevant metric_

yeah, i know its sounds a bit over the top but this is an important issue.



i'm not sure you can disentangle the technical from the personal issues here despite what we'd like to think. integrity does play a role. yeah, i know its sounds a bit over the top but this is an important issue.i'm not sure you can disentangle the technical from the personal issues here despite what we'd like to think. integrity does play a role.

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Full MemberActivity: 203Merit: 100 Re: How Open Source Projects Survive Poisonous People January 31, 2012, 07:16:06 PM #55 Quote i'm not sure you can disentangle the technical from the personal issues here despite what we'd like to think. integrity does play a role.

Yes, there is some true to this, especially when it comes to extremes. But what can happen on the other hand is someone being excluded from the project because he didn't agree with the project leader on one issue, and the project leader happens to have more friends here on the forum than that person. That is not right either. This is not the "surviver" after all, where you must form alliences and win over friends to get somewhere, this is supposed to be won by the best solution, not the best person. Just sayin. Yes, there is some true to this, especially when it comes to extremes. But what can happen on the other hand is someone being excluded from the project because he didn't agree with the project leader on one issue, and the project leader happens to have more friends here on the forum than that person. That is not right either. This is not the "surviver" after all, where you must form alliences and win over friends to get somewhere, this is supposed to be won by the best solution, not the best person. Just sayin. Bloom Editor - awesome 3D text editor.

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LegendaryActivity: 1764Merit: 1002 Re: How Open Source Projects Survive Poisonous People January 31, 2012, 07:22:39 PM #56 for me personally, Gavin was a huge reason i decided to support Bitcoin. i graduated from a top notch graduate institution and as snooty as it might sound, he being a Princeton graduate does carry some credibility. its a vetting process whether we like it or not.



there are many brilliant people here on the Forum. Luke is obviously one of them. but i would never put my support behind even THE most brilliant if i never met them and had a chance to evaluate their integrity.



brilliance can be used for subversion.



just sayin' as well.

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Mike CaldwellVIPLegendaryActivity: 1386Merit: 1062The Casascius 1oz 10BTC Silver Round (w/ Gold B) Re: How Open Source Projects Survive Poisonous People January 31, 2012, 07:26:16 PM #57 Quote from: Killdozer on January 31, 2012, 07:07:35 PM

How are personal issues relevant to choosing the right technical solution again? Maybe we should invite your normal babysitter, what he/she has to say in this, if that is a relevant metric_

Luke's technical solutions are generally based on some sort of pattern orthodoxy and completely disregard anything practical.



There is no dispute over whether BIP 16 and BIP 17 will accomplish the desired multisignature feature. The difference between the two is in what kinds of problems we should anticipate going forward. This is a practical problem, more so than a technical one. I trust Gavin with the foresight on this far more than Luke. Gavin will almost certainly be around to provide solid direction toward solving any problem that pops up. Luke most certainly will not.



Luke is still stuck trying to get the world to count in base 16, oblivious to what kind of practical problems such a change would involve, and persists in doing it today. Imagine the confusion and resource waste that already surrounds using US units and metric together, and square it. Luke is definitely not the person whose vision I would trust.



Luke possesses a bunch of wonderful skills, but extremely poor judgment. Luke's proposal would have to be breathtakingly better than the one Gavin supports for me to support him on it, and yet it is not. Luke's technical solutions are generally based on some sort of pattern orthodoxy and completely disregard anything practical.There is no dispute over whether BIP 16 and BIP 17 will accomplish the desired multisignature feature. The difference between the two is in what kinds of problems we should anticipate going forward. This is a practical problem, more so than a technical one. I trust Gavin with the foresight on this far more than Luke. Gavin will almost certainly be around to provide solid direction toward solving any problem that pops up. Luke most certainly will not.Luke is still stuck trying to get the world to count in base 16, oblivious to what kind of practical problems such a change would involve, and persists in doing it today. Imagine the confusion and resource waste that already surrounds using US units and metric together, and square it. Luke is definitely not the person whose vision I would trust.Luke possesses a bunch of wonderful skills, but extremely poor judgment. Luke's proposal would have to be breathtakingly better than the one Gavin supports for me to support him on it, and yet it is not. Companies claiming they got hacked and lost your coins sounds like fraud so perfect it could be called fashionable. I never believe them. If I ever experience the misfortune of a real intrusion, I declare I have been honest about the way I have managed the keys in Casascius Coins. I maintain no ability to recover or reproduce the keys, not even under limitless duress or total intrusion. Remember that trusting strangers with your coins without any recourse is, as a matter of principle, not a best practice. Don't keep coins online. Use paper or hardware wallets instead.

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Hero MemberActivity: 558Merit: 500 Re: How Open Source Projects Survive Poisonous People January 31, 2012, 07:27:17 PM #58 Quote from: cypherdoc on January 31, 2012, 07:22:39 PM for me personally, Gavin was a huge reason i decided to support Bitcoin. i graduated from a top notch graduate institution and as snooty as it might sound, he being a Princeton graduate does carry some credibility. its a vetting process whether we like it or not.



there are many brilliant people here on the Forum. Luke is obviously one of them. but i would never put my support behind even THE most brilliant if i never met them and had a chance to evaluate their integrity.



brilliance can be used for subversion.



just sayin' as well.



WTF you are talking about? USA elections still far away...



you want to convince me that Gavin is a good father ( I saw his album ) and Luke was jerking when he was 18 and smoking weed every other day.. this is why BIP 16 is better??? WTF you are talking about? USA elections still far away...you want to convince me that Gavin is a good father ( I saw his album ) and Luke was jerking when he was 18 and smoking weed every other day.. this is why BIP 16 is better??? Bitrated, LinkedIn