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Most opinion polls have shown support for an independent Wales at such a low level that it’s hardly surprising the issue hasn’t been seen as a mainstream part of Welsh political discourse.

Even Plaid Cymru has blown hot and cold on the subject, and has generally seemed content to kick it into an indeterminate future.

But things may be changing. A recently established pro-independence group called Yes Cymru has been holding well-attended rallies around Wales, and new branches have been cropping up in communities across the country.

One fact that’s immediately apparent is that the organisers are not dewy-eyed dreamers who have allowed their hearts to rule their heads. They are intelligent, articulate and quite prepared to debate the economic challenges an independent Wales would face.

Another is that while many are, or have been, members of Plaid Cymru, many are not. One of the three co-founders, Iestyn ap Rhobert, points out that it’s a cross-party group which may actually contain more Labour supporters than Plaid supporters. Others attracted by the group’s optimistic message have never been affiliated to any party at all.

Iestyn ap Rhobert said: “What we find is that while many people are interested in local politics and national politics, they are not so keen on the way party politics works.

“Yes Cymru is a bottom-up organisation rather than a top-down one. We don’t have a lot of policies we expect members to subscribe to. Instead we want to discuss the practicalities of Wales as an independent country – what that would mean.”

The group evolved out of involvement by Iestyn and his co-founders, Sion Jobbins and Hedd Gwynfor, in the 2014 Scottish referendum Yes campaign. They saw how local groups were started across Scotland and were convinced that was the best way forward.

Iestyn, a 38-year-old teacher of Welsh to adults, said: “I don’t know whether we’ll succeed or not, but it’s a cause I’m willing to spend the rest of my days at.”

Sandy Clubb chairs the Yes Cymru branch in Cardiff. Her husband, Gareth Clubb, is Plaid Cymru’s chief executive, but Sandy is involved in Yes Cymru because it offers a different way of doing politics.

She said: “There’s a lot of enthusiasm about what an independent Wales could achieve. We’re regularly getting 20 to 30 people along to meetings – and they’re not the same ones every time. Everyone has a contribution to make. It’s all about getting people to debate the possibilities.

“Everyone is sensible enough to realise that independence isn’t going to come overnight. I have a daughter who’s nearly two. I’d like Wales to be independent by the time she’s 18.”

Aled Gwyn Job, a member of Yes Cymru in Caernarfon, said: “Although I’m a member of Plaid, I believe it’s become part of the furniture in Cardiff Bay since 1999. There seems to be a lack of willingness on their part to really argue the case for Welsh independence.

“I think a couple of things have brought it on to the agenda now. There’s the success of the national football team in the Euros last year, which really put Wales on the map for many people across Europe and further afield, as well as engendering great feelings of patriotism.

“And then there’s Brexit, which is forcing us all to re-evaluate our sense of identity.”

Ben Gwalchmai, who lives near Welshpool and is a member of the Labour Party as well as Yes Cymru, said: “For me, part of it is a question of maths. The 40 Welsh MPs are always going to be greatly outnumbered in the House of Commons, which essentially is an English Parliament.

“I’m in the Labour Party because I believe in fairness, and I think wanting fairness for my country is entirely compatible with that.

“I’m by no means alone in thinking that, and we have a Yes Cymru event coming up on October 6 specifically for Labour Party members which will have contributions from a number of people, including Lord Elystan Morgan and the Swansea East AM Mike Hedges.

“I’ve had conversations with people who say Wales couldn’t afford to be independent. I don’t agree with them and point out how a country like Estonia has made advances since it became independent from the Soviet Union with a GDP half that of Wales.

“I think we’re really at a crossroads now. When we leave the EU, the danger is that we’ll be overwhelmed by England.”

Gwynoro Jones, a veteran political campaigner who was Carmarthen’s Labour MP for four years in the early 1970s, is a member of Yes Cymru.

He said: “I have been very impressed by the calibre, commitment and organisational skills of those involved. In my view they are better organised than political parties.

"Another thing I like about them is the way they are prepared to tackle head on the economic issues. People often wonder whether Wales is big enough or rich enough to be an independent nation.

"Well, seven EU member states have smaller populations than Wales and the UK state has a national debt of £1.8 trillion.

"Does anyone argue that the UK isn’t big enough or rich enough to run itself, and that it should be run by another country?”