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0:00hi everyone and welcome to inventors 0:05Launchpad roadmap to success i am your 0:08host carmine danisco and today on the 0:11launchpad we have a patent attorney he's 0:14an inventor he's a litigator he has 0:17developed some great training courses 0:19for people seeking to get knowledge on 0:22patents different types of patents all 0:25the information that's out there and 0:27he's getting he created courses in the 0:29help in the hopes sorry in the hopes of 0:32giving people information without them 0:35going out and spending thousands and 0:37thousands of dollars without that 0:39knowledge his name is James Linden and i 0:42think i have monde the line now hey 0:44james lee over there yes i am thank you 0:47hey thanks for joining us on the show 0:50today and i can tell you that whenever 0:53we have a patent attorney with as much 0:55knowledge as you we get a lot of views 0:58because patents seem to be one of the 1:01hot topics for inventors and product 1:04developers and I'm hoping that you can 1:06give us some information on all the 1:08miscues and misinformation that's out 1:10there and then be able to lead us into 1:12why you develop those courses that are 1:15awesome i took a look at them and i want 1:18to go over that with you as we progress 1:20through so maybe you can give a little 1:21bit of background for listeners i mean i 1:23gave a quick injury you've probably 1:24heard but i'm sure there's some things i 1:26left out well thank you for the 1:29opportunity to to talk about this a 1:33little bit it is an important topic as 1:35you see I've been a patent attorney 1:36since 1999 that worked for Owens Corning 1:39fiberglass Ford Motor Company a number 1:43of bigger companies and these days I 1:45focused mostly on the individual 1:48inventors small medium-sized firms and 1:51one things that I noticed when I got 1:55away from dealing with some of the 1:57bigger companies was that money became 2:01more of a concern he nobody wants to 2:04waste money even Donald Trump doesn't 2:07want to waste money no matter how much 2:08money you have you don't want to waste 2:10money but 2:12when the question is do you even have 2:16the money to start with or you have a 2:18great deal of difficulty coming up with 2:20the money it becomes even more important 2:22so I just started seeing a number of 2:25people that I thought needed legal help 2:28they sometimes a little help sometimes a 2:31lot of health and money was always an 2:34issue and you know it did sort of bother 2:37me a little bit that people weren't 2:41always able to really follow through 2:43with their ideas because of the 2:45financial constraints so that's why I 2:47develop these materials here and you 2:51know I've read them so that they're good 2:54for everybody it's a combination of 2:56videos I go through the actual law 2:59itself the examples I've got a couple 3:01different examples in their technology 3:04is very straightforward and I think it's 3:08something that's really going to help a 3:09lot of people yeah and I totally agree 3:11with you that it didn't what we find and 3:14one of the reasons we what we even 3:15started this podcast that the inventors 3:16launch pad is to give people knowledge I 3:18mean having people that have knowledge 3:20they have education you you agree with 3:23me or not that when they come to you a 3:25well-informed klein of yours is probably 3:27the easiest client for you to have well 3:29it is and unfortunately I think 3:32sometimes the individual inventors some 3:35of the attorneys don't really care to 3:36work with that popular relation you know 3:39if your ford motor company or owens 3:41corning or someplace like that you know 3:44you're going to file a number of patents 3:45every year you know sort of what to 3:47expect and you know how much it's going 3:50to cost why it costs that much and a 3:53little bit about the process where is if 3:56you're a first timer you know you have 3:59more questions maybe there's things that 4:02are going on that then an inventor does 4:05not understand and so it's a different 4:08set of obstacles to overcome again it's 4:13it's not a matter being good or bad it's 4:15just something that's going through for 4:18the first time is going to come with a 4:20different set of expectations and 4:22somebody that's just doing you know 4:24every day all the time so 4:26that is that is definitely something to 4:28keep in mind yeah hey now what we find 4:32and you probably want to do is people 4:35want to get a patent they feel like that 4:37the first thing they need to do is get a 4:39patent and I think it's because they're 4:40talking to people who don't really know 4:43they're talking to their cousins and 4:44their neighbors and their grandmother 4:45hey I have this idea what should I do 4:47next and there's a lot of people that 4:48don't know that sequence but they think 4:50they do and they have a limited budget 4:53so they're fearful to spend that money 4:54and I think if I just make a little bit 4:57of progress and I go get a patent at 4:59least I can start talking about it when 5:01is it went where is it that a person 5:05should go and actually talk to somebody 5:07like you who has that knowledge I know 5:09you're an inventor too which is great so 5:11you be can relate is there ways for 5:14people to protect their idea in a good 5:16sequence and when do you think they 5:18should actually file a full patent well 5:21obviously every situation is going to be 5:24a little bit different but i would 5:27definitely file when you get to the 5:30point that your current embodiments the 5:33one that you're currently working with 5:35the one you're most excited about is 5:36actually operative before that when 5:39you're still sort of trying to work the 5:41kinks out you're not really quite sure 5:43if it's going to be ready for prime time 5:45maybe it's time to just continue on that 5:49path but when you get to the point where 5:51it looks like it's pretty reliable and 5:54it's something that's really going to be 5:58marketable at some point I think that's 6:01the time to really look at that very 6:03seriously and one of the first questions 6:06I ask people when they call me is how 6:09many of these things do you think we 6:11would sell in a in the first year on the 6:15cars five years in the first ten years 6:16and what do you think profit margin 6:21would be on these you know nobody is 6:25going to spend seven hundred dollars for 6:28the world's best toaster I'm going to do 6:31it unless about the events or some place 6:33like that where you make a lot of talk 6:35let's just to get all day long but you 6:38know you do have to 6:39you know ground yourself in the real 6:40world you do have to sort of ask 6:43yourself who's going to buy this how 6:45much they going to be willing to spend 6:46and you know really think in those terms 6:50because you know simply getting a patent 6:54in and of itself is a way to exclude 6:57your competitors but if you have no 6:59competitors because the market just 7:01doesn't want that product you know you 7:03you have no competitors you have no 7:05competitors to try to keep away because 7:07nobody's going to go into a business and 7:10must say at least think it's when it 7:11makes money yeah you know that's that's 7:14a good point you're probably when people 7:18come to you you're probably wearing so 7:19many different hats you know you're 7:21you're saying hey I'm a patent attorney 7:23but in reality it sounds like you're 7:25trying to lead them you actually like 7:28business development and you know you 7:30have all these different things 7:30organization development are you ready 7:33for that patent is the product worth it 7:35you know it seems like you're you're 7:37really helping them and not even going 7:40down the what your normal everyday 7:41knowledge is I mean it seems like you 7:44have a lot of other knowledge of course 7:45but you're doing other things well 7:47that's one of the big differences and 7:49it's in the transition you know when 7:51when when a corporate client calls in 7:54the sending you some files to file a 7:56patent application I don't have those 7:58kinds of discussions I don't say well 8:00gosh you know how many of you know 8:02Ford's are you know we're going to carry 8:05this model this is going to be on the 8:06trucks or is it going to be on the many 8:08bands you know now let me talk about 8:10your business strategy we've got people 8:12to do all that and I'm if they have my 8:16opinions from gibbets one and it might 8:18be Jemaine it always it going to be off 8:20road on road it's going to be inside the 8:22car outside the car I mean some of these 8:24things might come into play but really a 8:27business sort of acumen that you have to 8:31developer working with individuals or 8:34small businesses it really has to be 8:37suited for them specifically because 8:39some of them have thought about it 8:41alight and some of them have thought 8:44about it very little and wherever you 8:46are it's okay if you knew all the 8:49answers you wouldn't need to be asking 8:52me anything 8:53place so it doesn't bother me if you 8:55comment you know you have a lot of 8:58questions again the course doesn't 9:01really go through the business aspects 9:03as much it's really designed to help 9:07people write in file the application 9:09come if you talk about rare that he 9:12patent system seems to work best it has 9:15we already touched on one of the big 9:17things there is is this something that 9:20somebody would want to copy if you are 9:25not even at that step where you have 9:28something that somebody would want to 9:29copy or something that you faked once it 9:32gets on the market so I would want a 9:34copy then you know you need to really 9:37keep them working on it to you so you 9:39get to that point it seems like the way 9:42you're talking timing obviously funds 9:45are very important when you have an 9:47individual inventor but it also seems 9:48like timing it is really important well 9:51it is and there are some legal deadlines 9:55as you're probably aware to the process 9:58as well you know in the United States 10:01you're not allowed to go out and just 10:03sell the thing for a few years and when 10:05it seems like it's really doing well and 10:07it looks like somebody might be copying 10:09you or might be just about copying you 10:11then file a patent application that 10:13point is too late and you know a number 10:16of our sister countries in the patent 10:18system have what's called an absolute 10:21novelty requirement meaning that they 10:23will allow even less essentially zero 10:26commercialization and that even includes 10:29attempts to sell you kind of talk about 10:32necessarily you know actual sales but 10:35offers to sell can trigger some of those 10:39legal deadline so yes so that the 10:43timeline can be very important in you 10:45need to sort of get somewhat of an 10:48alignment of different events together 10:50and you know obviously I try to do 10:52everything I can to help the client sue 10:54that yeah and as you said there and and 10:56as everyone knows there's so many 10:57misconceptions everyone has their own 10:59way of doing things and they're getting 11:01information for people who don't really 11:02know is there a way whilst I'm 11:05developing my product or 11:06or I want to try to sell it or maybe 11:08even show some companies for a licensing 11:10is there a way at a low cost to to 11:13protect my idea well yes as we go into a 11:18little bit more detail on the course 11:20obviously filing an application is 11:22probably the best way and it's not a 11:26best way only from the legal point of 11:28view but also the business point of view 11:29because some of these folks that you 11:32might want to consider doing business 11:34with they really won't talk to you about 11:36the idea unless you have at least filed 11:39an application because you know ideally 11:43you have filed the application and it's 11:45already ripened into a pad and it's 11:47already been granted but you know when 11:50you file that application at least the 11:53company knows okay at least we know what 11:56this person claims to have invented yeah 11:59just about every invention I've ever 12:01seen is a combination of old stuff and 12:04new stuff it's very rare that you have 12:06something that looks like it just fell 12:08out of you know heaven down on planet 12:11earth you can see that you know with the 12:14you know transistors and backing tunes 12:17and microchips and things like that you 12:19know we got to make up new words for 12:21them but by a large you know the best 12:23majority of things are our improvements 12:26you know this works better so I'm 12:29invention this week parking meters that 12:31accept credit cards and they can be 12:35coupled with an app on your phone so you 12:37know when you're getting low on time and 12:39you can just sort of recharge with this 12:41with the credit card and I way I saw it 12:44I thought gosh I wonder what the city 12:45thinks about that because they can't 12:47give out tickets anymore yeah because 12:49they're you know if you're you know 12:53getting a five minute warning and you're 12:56able to sort of reup then you know maybe 13:00you don't have to worry about the thing 13:01expiring so much but it's probably 13:03offset by revenue by the city making 13:06sure that it's actually collecting all 13:09the money they don't have to have 13:09somebody go around and get the bag of 13:11quarters out all that from the need or 13:14so the technology is really incredible 13:16and this 13:19so the environment that were in is 13:21really right for a lot of innovation Wow 13:23yeah I totally agree and it's growing so 13:26quickly and somebody that's in the 13:29position to yourself and not Annabelle I 13:31don't know how you keep up with the 13:33difference in patterns and writing in 13:34and and actually developing that patent 13:38to actually get it through is phenomenal 13:40to me when I see some of the patents 13:42that that yourself and some of our other 13:45colleagues develop it it really is great 13:47the work that you guys do it's really 13:49protecting innovation I mean the things 13:52that you guys are doing it's it's 13:53awesome yeah you know the way I had it 13:56described to me while I was in law 13:57school was that going into patent law 14:01was sort of like delivering babies in a 14:04way it sort of like the obg my head of 14:06the law business you know you got the 14:09criminal defense guys and you know some 14:14of these other types of law and they're 14:17all they're all important but the thing 14:20that's new for the inventors is they're 14:23going to come to a lawyer and they're 14:25going to say you know look at my baby is 14:28it my baby beautiful look look at this 14:31thing that I've come up with and by a 14:33large people are very excited they're 14:35very optimistic and unfortunately that 14:38we'd zoom getting taken advantage of 14:40from time to time nobody wants to see 14:44that I mean I certainly don't I know you 14:45don't but it is an exciting field and 14:50there's a lot of optimism and you know I 14:54like to say there it's funny almost by 14:57definition every day it's something new 14:58and it's very exciting to be involved in 15:01it it is it is and and i agree with you 15:03you know when the clients come to you 15:05you know even the projects exciting and 15:07I run into the two it's hard for you and 15:10I we don't want to be as excited as we 15:12could be because we're not trying to 15:14convince them to move forward even 15:15though it's a great idea to they have to 15:18really do it we have to remain you know 15:20kind of neutral because we have to know 15:23make that product or like you said you 15:24have to write the right you know put 15:25everything together or we have to give 15:27them the correct advice and it's 15:29difficult sometimes because I sometimes 15:32feed off there and do 15:33Adam but it can be and it can be ass 15:37what about a little bit of a trap and 15:40part of that is when the client comes to 15:42me you know I tell them you know your 15:46field better than I do that's just 15:49always the case whether it's you know 15:51new boating equipment or parking meters 15:54or whatever it is you know it's easy for 15:58me to sit here and say well what's new 16:00to me because it probably does look new 16:03to me but what really matters is what is 16:08the market reaction to it what's the 16:10Patent Office going to think about it 16:12however knew it might look to us because 16:14it's not in our immediate environment 16:17right aratus you know is there a guy in 16:20Dobb you know New Jersey or tucson or 16:23Sacramento I mean it's it's very easy to 16:29get very excited and it can be a little 16:32bit of a letdown if somebody finds out 16:33oh gosh you know it was a good idea and 16:37somebody else had it and the you know 16:41sort of beat me to the punch a little 16:44bit but even in those cases you know 16:47there can still be that silver lining 16:50there because even if the general idea 16:53has been has been patented you know you 16:59may have an improvement for it so you 17:01know with the parking lot the parking 17:05meters to take the credit cards I assure 17:07you that over the next few years there's 17:09going to be some improvements on that in 17:11other ways that the thing losses will 17:13work more reliably faster cheaper and 17:16all the rest of it so it's not as if 17:19there's only one light bulb patent out 17:22there and you know all innovation stops 17:25it really just starts a lot of fields 17:28when the first few patent application 17:30start to flow through and it's really 17:32the best to just sort of figure out you 17:35know if this a combination of all stuff 17:37a new stuff you know what's what's the 17:39new stuff let's try really zoom in on 17:41that 17:42ya know exactly you know so it's never 17:47ending and that's why the reasons that 17:48we love this this job I mean it's such a 17:51great industry if you can give people 17:53education and as we talked about them 17:56our clients being knowledgeable is so 17:59important to us it really is and I want 18:01to switch gears a little bit because a 18:03lot of the questions that we get and you 18:05may also when a client comes to us is 18:08they're fearful of someone feeling their 18:11idea I mean it's it that's really what 18:14the biggest thing of it so so one 18:15question I have to question maybe 18:17they'll fit together and I know you'll 18:19be able to do is you've been doing this 18:20a long time is how often do ideas really 18:23get stolen and can a regular person 18:27actually stop somebody you know the cost 18:31or whatever it is what is those steps 18:33like if someone is stealing my idea is 18:35it can I really stop someone a regular 18:37person well until you file the patent 18:41application it's very difficult and you 18:43know i do get that question a lot myself 18:46about somebody stealing my idea and may 18:50times my response is well you know what 18:52are you doing that's making it so easy 18:54for somebody steal your idea i mean are 18:57you talking about it are you are you 18:59selling it I'm you know you have you 19:01already started to commercialize it I 19:04mean if you've been if you've been the 19:07you know making this product for a 19:09couple years and selling it and the 19:11marketplace can see that there is a 19:13decent profit margin in it you will be 19:17copied and they're not stealing your 19:18idea they are copying you and they're 19:22making money in the way to prevent them 19:25from stealing your idea is number one to 19:27at least put them on notice this is my 19:30idea and this is one of the functions of 19:32the patent system when you do a search 19:35you know like like we were talking about 19:37earlier you know you think you have this 19:40great idea you do a search and you know 19:43you start to be feeling more confirmed 19:46that it really it really is a good idea 19:48because there's maybe nothing really so 19:51close to it on the market and you know 19:54that can be very 19:56charging and you know it is important 19:59that people know what novelty really is 20:04that's the biggest thing a couple of 20:07mistakes I see sometimes is that people 20:10come up with a good idea to make sin on 20:12it yeah and sometimes they sit on it and 20:16try to commercialize it and sometimes 20:18they just stood on they say well I came 20:20up with this idea a few years ago and it 20:23still may be new as far as the 20:25marketplace is concerned but just so 20:28many times I I see that you know when 20:31when you see a need in the marketplace 20:33for some innovation you may just have 20:38some absolutely tremendous insight more 20:41likely if you're seeing the need to pay 20:45for your parking meter and not have to 20:46carry around a roll of quarters in your 20:48pocket somebody else has seen that too 20:50yeah and you know it's it's important 20:56that you not be so concerned about the 21:00idea being stolen that you sit on it 21:03forever and it just sort of you know 21:04rots yeah yeah you know you make some 21:07wine somebody so we might feel some your 21:09vowels but you know you still have to 21:11make the wine I mean catches let's break 21:14stick and it happens and it happens I 21:17mean people come and they say yeah you 21:18know that idea i had that idea 20 years 21:21ago i said but you didn't do anything 21:23right right i mean you know i should 21:29have married Pamela Anderson no we get 0 21:33for all your viewers that are y'all I'm 21:34ghetto she used to be a very attractive 21:36figure yeah and yeah i'm very happy out 21:43of my life no I down here but it is it's 21:46you know to to talk about what you can 21:49do is it is very exciting but at some 21:52point you have to you know you have to 21:56actually put some of this stuff in the 21:59motion and at least educate yourself if 22:03you look into it and it looks like well 22:07you know I got up to the planets from 22:08bad I didn't get a hit 22:09it's all right um you know go home shut 22:13it tear uh and you know get back up on 22:17the horse I mean if you're that sort of 22:19person that comes up with this stuff 22:20because you're creative in that way it's 22:24going to happen again yeah it was like a 22:25singer with a song or you know anybody 22:28that has a trade you know you may not 22:31shit hold on every single time you know 22:36and maybe you want to quit because of 22:37that but a lot of people don't want to 22:40quit they want to keep trying and 22:41because it's just inside of them you got 22:43to get it out you have to work these 22:45ideas out because it's just kind of 22:48people they are well yeah and they gave 22:50it a try you get to go home saying I 22:51tried it I don't have to you know go 22:54another 20 years by saying you know I 22:56should have done that I should have done 22:57this so giving it a try and being 22:58knowledgeable that's what's great about 23:00your courses i just want to mention as 23:02you were saying that you know the 23:04courses will actually give people 23:06knowledge whether they should move 23:07forward or not and if they do decide to 23:09move forward your course will walk them 23:11through that which is I think fantastic 23:12great and I you know for me I consider 23:17it a success although not the most 23:20popular kind of success I consider a 23:22success if somebody acquires the 23:25knowledge about the system and they say 23:29you know as I look more into this and I 23:33learning more about it maybe family 23:36patent application is not the way to go 23:38and you know maybe I'll you know modify 23:42things and do something else uh you know 23:45that's life I mean that's just that's 23:49just part of living down here on planet 23:52earth you know you know the old saying 23:55about the thousands of ways not to make 23:58a light bulb I mean we laugh when we 24:00hear that but it's really true you know 24:02you are going to you know all before you 24:06walk I mean I've got I've got two boys 24:08now 13 and 16 I can like still remember 24:12when they were first trying to walk then 24:14I get up and fall down they cried and 24:16get up they call them you cry and 24:18eventually you know they get up and they 24:21don't fall down as much yeah 24:23I fall down sometimes and I gotta get 24:27back up you know yeah that's you know he 24:31gotta develop a little bit of a tough 24:34skin in this in this industry and you 24:37know knowledge is just you know what 24:40separates us from the beasts of the 24:41field you know correct correct and and 24:43and the good part about it is with the 24:45advent of the internet instant 24:47information there's no reason now to be 24:49fearful about too much you can go out 24:51there you can see it's our products out 24:53there you can look around if it is out 24:55there you can forget about it think of a 24:56different product right yeah I mean 24:59there's no reason to be sit back and be 25:00fearful of telling something out the 25:02idea now right ah you know it's hard to 25:07have too much knowledge I'm not even 25:09sure that's possible but as long as it's 25:12accurate knowledge and you know what to 25:13do with it the more you learn about I 25:16mean at the very least I tell people 25:19with their looking around doing a search 25:21to see what other products might be out 25:24there at the very least you're learning 25:27what your competitors are doing and 25:30maybe that is going to end up helping 25:34you maybe it's funny enough being 25:35encouraging maybe it's going to end up 25:37being discouraging but I mean what's the 25:40alternatives to not know what your 25:42competitors are doing I mean that's 25:44that's even worse so now educate 25:47yourself about your legal options and 25:49you know sort of getting the lay of the 25:51land in whatever product field you have 25:53to be working in that sucks it's good 25:56stuff even though it's that it does 25:58always work out the way you thought it 25:59yeah but you're doing something some 26:01kind of forward movement is so important 26:03especially in this industry if you sit 26:05back someone is always thinking about 26:07the same thing you are yeah i'm moving 26:09they're going to get the prize there's 26:11no doubt about it now we're running a 26:13little bit low on time there's two 26:14things I will still want to cover and 26:15then go over some of the contact 26:16information that you have one is can you 26:19give us a quick some feedback on your 26:22thoughts on provisional patents and and 26:27and if they're useful well they are 26:30useful and again it the course goes 26:33under some detail about this 26:35we won a sort of myths and 26:41misconceptions I hear is that you know a 26:46provisional application is kind of quick 26:48and dirty you know you can follow for 65 26:51bucks and you know you're protected for 26:54a year the way I think about it is the 26:57provisional application is sort of like 27:00the foundation of a house at your 27:03building and it is going to support 27:07whatever comes afterwards as the 27:09structure being put on top of it though 27:12if in the legal requirements are exactly 27:16the same this is something that you 27:18don't see another out on you we look at 27:21some of the websites that are out there 27:22the only difference between the 27:25provisional application and utility 27:27application really adept utility 27:29application is it has to have claims 27:33which could be time-consuming to develop 27:36and you know they're there is some 27:39increased costs there there's a few 27:41other formalities a lot of people get 27:43rolled into some false sense of security 27:46with the provisionals because they don't 27:49get any negative feedback from the 27:51Patent Office refile it we get a filing 27:54date an application number and they 27:56think well that was easy it wasn't easy 27:59and you know the Patent Office is not 28:04going to examine that they're not to 28:06give you feedback no matter how good or 28:08bad it is so you know it's it can be a 28:13little bit deceptive in our own minds 28:17you know to really think that we have 28:20you know accomplished something great 28:23just by getting the filing date and an 28:26application number and you know you 28:28really need to fully disclose that 28:31invention in that provisional just like 28:34you do in the utility application 28:35sometimes they will cut you a little bit 28:38of slack on whether the drawings are you 28:41know perfect and this sort of thing but 28:43you know really everything that in a 28:47utility application 28:49in a provisional application and I don't 28:52hear that very often when I see this 28:54subject being discussed yeah I totally 28:56agree and i look at the provisional 28:57patent has just another tool when it's a 29:00special d thing we need to be used the 29:02correct way just like any specialty tool 29:04correct and you need to speak with 29:05somebody like yourself and you say this 29:07is the this is the right tool for the 29:09job this is the right tool for the job 29:10whether it's a full you full patent very 29:12provision or whatever it is has to be 29:14done the right way I agree yeah 29:17absolutely in you know I tell people 29:19when they're looking at a provisional 29:20application I say a silent provisional 29:24application is for people who need time 29:27it gives you a year and what do you need 29:31that time for well to maybe raise money 29:34to maybe improve the product sort start 29:38looking at commercial embodiments may be 29:40marketing channels you know what's the 29:44cheapest way to make this you know 29:47things like that but really if you're 29:50ready to file utility application now 29:52filing a provisional now and they're 29:55waiting you know 11 months or so to file 29:57the utility application you just doubled 30:00your class you filed twice now you know 30:04the drawings that you used for the first 30:06two issues for the second case you know 30:09especially if you're using the same 30:11attorney or if you're doing it yourself 30:13you you know it's not as if everything 30:18has doubled about it but you know if you 30:21don't need time you don't need a 30:23provisional application that is all it 30:26is going to give you you can't go in if 30:29you see somebody topping you you can't 30:32go into court and make them stop it's 30:34just it's very limited in in what it 30:38gives you and those long as people 30:40understand that realize what you're 30:41doing they decide that you want to do it 30:43that's cool there's our sessle nothing 30:45wrong with it like you say correct but 30:47they're informed they're making any 30:48marks an informed decision I mean it's a 30:51big difference than just going in blind 30:52saying I'm protected right yeah okay 30:55absolutely right good alright James I'm 30:58sorry to say we're we're kind of at a 31:00time I would love you to 31:01you give us some information how people 31:05can not only get in contact with view 31:07your website but also I know that 31:09someone listens are going to want to 31:10check out those courses that you have so 31:12maybe that and and just let you know 31:13everyone that's listening you'll have to 31:15stop it right down this down the 31:16information that James gives we will 31:18have it on our show notes and also on 31:20his website ok well the website is mike 31:24patton course calm and the gmail address 31:28is my patent course @ gmail.com ok I'll 31:33try to keep it as advising as requested 31:35kid we do have a special offer for the 31:38listeners and viewers i do have a 31:41special lesson that I've prepared on the 31:44difference between the provisional 31:46applications and silly applications we 31:49are going to offer that for a limited 31:50time at no cost to people that want to 31:54learn more it'll cost you a little bit 31:56of your time you you don't have to see 32:01my my beautiful face you know actually 32:07it is in the course a little bit but you 32:08don't have to talk you can do it in your 32:10own home in your own time however it 32:13works best for you and you know the 32:16worst thing that could happen would be 32:17that you would learn something sir and 32:19like we've already discussed it it's 32:23very rarely a bad thing knowledge is is 32:25so important in this injured in any 32:27industry but in this industry particular 32:29as much knowledge as you can get before 32:31you move forward because with the most 32:33inventors as we know even myself funds 32:35or resources are limited and right we 32:38don't want to make a misstep that can 32:39set you back a year or two years so very 32:41important especially and offering that 32:43free information a freak or stings is 32:45awesome because I know that some of the 32:47lessons are going to take advantage of 32:48that I would recommend as get as much 32:50knowledge as you can and write be armed 32:53with as much education as you can so 32:56everyone James thank you so much for 32:59being on the show today I would love to 33:01invite you to come back at some point 33:03we're going to get some questions we're 33:04going to get some information and I 33:06would love to have you back on the show 33:08if that's okay that would be great I 33:10love working with this population is 33:13screw 33:14just one more thing about the course you 33:17know we've got a couple options that are 33:19less than a thousand bucks oh you're not 33:22looking at you know a big legal expense 33:26or anything like that so Allah please 33:28check it out no and maybe it's something 33:30that you want to look into more no it's 33:32definitely saving money there's no doubt 33:34about it something like that so all 33:36right James thank you very much and you 33:38talk to you soon take care of my friend 33:40you too bye bye