[22/11/2015 22:33:54] Endie H: yeah, submitting to tmc now brb

[22/11/2015 22:34:32] Endie H: Heh I am flattered to see one of my reddit posts included in there

[22/11/2015 22:35:44] Dave / Xander: he covers a lot of the same shit you have said above

[22/11/2015 22:36:46] Dave / Xander: Our Alexa rank has dropped from around 390k to 620k in the past 3 months alone

[22/11/2015 22:36:51] Dave / Xander: which is pretty substantial

[22/11/2015 22:36:55] Dave / Xander: that's global rank

[22/11/2015 22:38:10] Endie H: That's a good article

[22/11/2015 22:38:22] Dave / Xander: Aye, I think so. We're running it tomorrow.

[22/11/2015 22:38:28] Endie H: Probably too long as an expose, and could work as two parts

[22/11/2015 22:38:38] Endie H: But people expect lots of words in eve pieces

[22/11/2015 22:39:03] Dave / Xander: Him sending me that today when he hasn't written for me in like a year then our discussion this evening is a pretty fitting coincidence

[22/11/2015 22:39:25] Endie H: He doesn't seem to realise that these things make money for alex but also potentially the other TMC shareholders (Sion, Aryth etc)

[22/11/2015 22:39:54] Endie H: Also he has missed that the kickstarter wouldn't only go to the funding subscribers

[22/11/2015 22:40:09] Endie H: the electronic copies sold above that would be almost pure profit for TMC Media

[22/11/2015 22:40:12] Dave / Xander: well 'TMC shareholders' isn't a term being bandied about in the public conscience atm - no-one knows who they are and frankly, no-one cares

[22/11/2015 22:40:18] Dave / Xander: easier to just blame Alex

[22/11/2015 22:40:24] Endie H: probably

[22/11/2015 22:40:48] Endie H: You cannot leak this convo to anyone

[22/11/2015 22:40:53] Endie H: seriously

[22/11/2015 22:40:56] Endie H: no bobmonning

[22/11/2015 22:40:58] Dave / Xander: I won't obviously

[22/11/2015 22:41:00] Dave / Xander: dude

[22/11/2015 22:41:08] Dave / Xander: not Bobmon

[22/11/2015 22:41:22] Endie H: but you know that GSF has consistently subsidised TMC since it was founded?

[22/11/2015 22:41:40] Dave / Xander: Well I mean it was obvious that that's how it started

[22/11/2015 22:41:43] Endie H: all the plexes to pay writers, all the ships that are handed out on the stream

[22/11/2015 22:41:49] Dave / Xander: yeah I mean, d'oh

[22/11/2015 22:41:53] Dave / Xander: that's hardly shocking

[22/11/2015 22:42:04] Dave / Xander: it was clear one funded the other at the outset

[22/11/2015 22:42:10] Endie H: that's why the audits were never restarted after kazanir burned out

[22/11/2015 22:42:29] Dave / Xander: I presumed there was a point when TMC became self-supporting

[22/11/2015 22:42:44] Endie H: well, it never stopped, although when it became hilarious wit hthe stream handing out t2 battleships and stuff it got dialled-back

[22/11/2015 22:42:51] Endie H: sure it could fund itself

[22/11/2015 22:42:56] Endie H: but not do that and pay mittens

[22/11/2015 22:43:48] Endie H: it was hidden from people like me who were not tmc employees or shareholders but it would leak through every now and then

[22/11/2015 22:43:52] Dave / Xander: man, I don't know you that well so again, feel free to tell me to fuck off but what are you still doing in there dude? I mean, any of your real mates would still be mates with you afterwards irrespective of you actually being in GSF

[22/11/2015 22:44:31] Endie H: that was isk->cash in a way that I couldn't deal with, all covered by this "for the good of the imperium, getting our version out there" thing that was so deceitful I was choking on it

[22/11/2015 22:44:52] Endie H: I suspect they'd fuck Bat and its members pretty hard

[22/11/2015 22:45:03] Endie H: I am there because I like them

[22/11/2015 22:45:22] Dave / Xander: meh, I actually have zero issue with the basic RMT cycle that is writers being paid in ISK generating advertising for $ that covers site costs

[22/11/2015 22:45:36] Dave / Xander: I've long since said I consider it RMT and long since said I have zero issue with it

[22/11/2015 22:45:41] Dave / Xander: but this is way above and beyond that

[22/11/2015 22:45:54] Endie H: I dislike the rmt cycle of alliance profits being laundered through a site to provide capital for a business

[22/11/2015 22:46:04] Dave / Xander: and yeah, if you think you are shielding your members then aye, that's a totally reasonable reason to stay

[22/11/2015 22:46:18] Dave / Xander: aye, that's a totally different kettle of fish

[22/11/2015 22:46:24] Endie H: and I gather that there is something even more directly RMTish with harat funding the business in return for being accepted, but I don't know the details

[22/11/2015 22:46:42] Dave / Xander: harat?

[22/11/2015 22:47:02] Endie H: http://evemaps.dotlan.net/corp/House_Aratus

[22/11/2015 22:47:24] Endie H: I certainly remember that they were smuggled in in a very strange way

[22/11/2015 22:47:28] Endie H: them and one other corp

[22/11/2015 22:47:36] Dave / Xander: oh wow, they bought membership by offering to pay TMC's ISK bill?

[22/11/2015 22:47:42] Dave / Xander: ha, that's amazing

[22/11/2015 22:47:55] Endie H: Them and Hogyoku I suspect

[22/11/2015 22:48:29] Endie H: Not sure what the payment was, but it was secret enough to be kept from white knight types like me until someone let it slip on my last day

[22/11/2015 22:49:03] Dave / Xander: oh wow, so it was kept secret for you even while you were still officially in the driving seat?

[22/11/2015 22:49:17] Endie H: Yeah

[22/11/2015 22:49:20] Dave / Xander: ha

[22/11/2015 22:49:29] Endie H: People knew I was the annoyingly principled one

[22/11/2015 22:49:32] Dave / Xander: man, Sion must hate you almost as much as me

[22/11/2015 22:49:43] Dave / Xander: arguing the party line internally and such

[22/11/2015 22:49:52] Endie H: I don't imagine I am on his Christmas card list

[22/11/2015 22:50:36] Dave / Xander: Alex seems to think the sun shines out his arse so yeah

[22/11/2015 22:50:46] Endie H: Like I said, Bormann

[22/11/2015 22:50:59] Endie H: undeniably hard-working, efficient, and never says no

[22/11/2015 22:52:56] Dave / Xander: meh, I have to admit, I kinda admire the sheer chutzpah of Alex

[22/11/2015 22:53:08] Dave / Xander: he's attempting to cash out

[22/11/2015 22:53:09] Dave / Xander: kudos

[22/11/2015 22:53:23] Dave / Xander: it speaks poorly of any future legacy for GSF in Eve though

[22/11/2015 22:53:40] Endie H: They are deeply concerned about the future of GSF in eve

[22/11/2015 22:53:47] Endie H: that is their cash cow for the foreseeable future

[22/11/2015 22:54:14] Dave / Xander: if they were that concerned perhaps they would be dialling back a little to allow for a future

[22/11/2015 22:54:18] Endie H: Their problem is that the things that would be good for gsf would put their business model at risk

[22/11/2015 22:55:32] Dave / Xander: ah well

[22/11/2015 22:55:38] Dave / Xander: see how this article goes down tomorrow

[22/11/2015 22:55:47] Endie H: Make sure it goes on reddit

[22/11/2015 22:55:55] Dave / Xander: sure we'll be destroyed by the usual crowd

[22/11/2015 22:55:56] Dave / Xander: we will

[22/11/2015 22:55:59] Endie H: because exposure will be everything and I rarely see cz stuff

[22/11/2015 22:56:14] Endie H: it's a welcoming audience right now

[22/11/2015 22:56:24] Dave / Xander: hm, we always post everything up there but it often gets downvoted into oblivion quickly

[22/11/2015 22:56:36] Dave / Xander: but yeah, I'll make sure we reddit the shit out of it

[22/11/2015 22:57:04] Endie H: Anyway, work in a few hours

[22/11/2015 22:57:05] Dave / Xander: anyway, my bed time. We just moved house on Friday so this weekend has been insane.

[22/11/2015 22:57:08] Dave / Xander: ha yeah

[22/11/2015 22:57:10] Endie H: Good luck!

[22/11/2015 22:57:23] Dave / Xander: speak later. thanks for the chat and don't be a stranger dude

[22/11/2015 22:57:24] Endie H: And do let me know when you are in the burgh

[22/11/2015 22:57:27] Dave / Xander: will do

[22/11/2015 22:57:31] Dave / Xander: Fanfest next year?

[22/11/2015 22:57:33] Dave / Xander: any chance?

[22/11/2015 22:57:39] Endie H: not really

[22/11/2015 22:57:44] Dave / Xander: :(

[22/11/2015 22:57:54] Dave / Xander: we should pint next time I am down your end of the woods then

[22/11/2015 22:58:25] Dave / Xander: anyway, I am being summoned by She Who Must Be Obeyed