Erandorr Profile Blog Joined October 2010 1857 Posts #1 Hey ,

recently there has been a lot of talk about vasters who make so much more money than the progamers who create the content( Husky, HD etc)

So that got me wondering whether or not the casters should be charged for what they get for free.

Think about it : in any other sport, professional teams get a big percentage of the income created by the content they create. So why should this not be the case in SC2 as well?

Idra, for example doesnt like Husky very mutch and yet the caster got over 200k views recently for content Idra created.

Now an other aspect is , of course , that a lot of people watch games because a certain caster commentates them , so you might argue that the casters become more important than the players, but I at least think that they could not exist without each other.

Games without casters are boring and casters without games .. well that wouldnt really work would it?

Those are just a few points that i thought of the top of my head and i would be interested what all of you think about this subject.

Hasire Profile Joined February 2010 United States 124 Posts #2 If the replay is released to the public, then the player can't really expect money in return for it. If they hoard them expecting money, the casters will just go to someone else for reps.

HansMoleman Profile Joined April 2010 United States 343 Posts #3 Perhaps on paper this seems like a valid idea, but in reality all this would do would put a halt to an aspect of eSports, which is never a good thing. "Knowledge is what remains after one has forgotten what one has learn from schooling" -Albert Einstien

TotalBiscuit Profile Blog Joined March 2010 United Kingdom 5415 Posts Last Edited: 2011-01-19 21:20:00 #4 Oh this will end well.



A fairly massive thing you've failed to take into consideration is that without casters, you literally have no professional eSports. Sponsors will not pay a cent for something that isn't going to get publicised. It's not just 'oh the games would be boring without casters', it is the 'oh, nobody is getting paid because the sponsors can't get their brand out there because we don't have any prominent casters'.



There are 4 vital elements to eSports and without even one of those, eSports doesn't work. Looks something like this.



Players <> Casters <> Viewers <> Sponsors



Take one of those out of the equation and you have no professional eSports. Probably best not to fuck with an element of it on that basis.



Consider this. In eSports, a 'caster' such as say, Husky, is not merely a commentator, he is an entirely television network in and of himself. If you're talking about 'buying the rights' to a series or tournament, then this already happens, though it's usually through a beneficial arrangement to all 4 elements of that equation. The caster uses his prominence and audience to bargain with the sponsors, to secure money for the players. He does not take money from the prizepool for himself (unless he is a complete dick and I really hope this doesn't happen), he is compensated via the ad revenue that his channel generates (and could easily generate from something that isn't Starcraft if need be). The players get paid, the sponsors get their brand recognition, the caster is compensated and the viewers get their entertainment without paying a dime.



I couldn't possibly not be biased on this subject, but I would like to think people wouldn't want to mess with that system, lest it fall apart and benefit no-one at all. Commentator Host of SHOUTcraft Clan Wars- http://www.mlg.tv/shoutcraft

Yurie Profile Blog Joined August 2010 2749 Posts #5 Check how ESL (larger events), MLG, GOM and so on does it. They cast it themselves so they get the income themselves and the costs themselves.



Shouldn't also the casters be paid somehow? Once the sum reaches a certain point you can start talking about giving back though.

Jacuzzi Profile Blog Joined August 2010 United States 528 Posts #6 Casters make the game entertaining and not everybody can do that. You don't have to look far on youtube to find shitty casters that have no business trying to cast games. People like Day9, Tasteless, and Husky deserve their salaries.

stupidhydro Profile Joined July 2010 United States 216 Posts #7 If the casters can get a hold of the replay, generally you can too. People watch the videos with the casting/commentating because of the caster or because they're too lazy to get the game themselves. It'd be dumb if everyone had to pay for the replay so why would someone who takes it off a site and makes a youtube video of themselves talking about it have to pay too?

Mahavishnu Profile Joined August 2010 Canada 394 Posts #8 Quality will have longevity.



Also, there are so few casters and progamers making money there's no reason to make an annoying issue of it. everything is gravity

aike Profile Blog Joined July 2010 United States 1605 Posts #9 On January 20 2011 06:09 Hasire wrote:

If the replay is released to the public, then the player can't really expect money in return for it. If they hoard them expecting money, the casters will just go to someone else for reps.



How does one hoard replays when your opponent in the game has the exact same replay? How does one hoard replays when your opponent in the game has the exact same replay? Wahaha

Yurie Profile Blog Joined August 2010 2749 Posts Last Edited: 2011-01-19 21:13:35 #10 Hoarding replays might be an interesting idea. Selling each download of a replay for a small sum. Since both players would get this money both would keep it to the site selling them or get no income from this.

optical630 Profile Joined August 2010 United Kingdom 768 Posts #11 On January 20 2011 06:09 Hasire wrote:

If the replay is released to the public, then the player can't really expect money in return for it. If they hoard them expecting money, the casters will just go to someone else for reps.





but thats the thing, more wpeople will want to watch the better player reps like Idras instead of some lower lesser known player but thats the thing, more wpeople will want to watch the better player reps like Idras instead of some lower lesser known player

evcameron Profile Joined December 2010 2 Posts Last Edited: 2011-01-19 21:15:15 #12 As Hasire said, if they release the game to the public they can't expect casters to pay them money. Nothing is stopped top level gamers from keeping their replays and selling them to the casters.



If they really think their replays are that good, then they can do that. And if they're right, the casters will be willing to pay for them. But if they're wrong and it turns out that people don't really care much about seeing games of (as an example) idra, and are fine with just seeing games with ret instead, then casters won't pay for games and idra loses some of his popularity since less people get exposure to his games, which arguably reduces a player or a team's ability to get sponsors.

CrazyCow Profile Joined August 2010 United States 308 Posts #13 YouTube partnership doesn't really give that much money, contrary to popular belief. I'd be surprised if HD and Husky were breaking $20k/year. Compare that with IdrA's salary.

Erandorr Profile Blog Joined October 2010 1857 Posts Last Edited: 2011-01-19 21:15:27 #14 On January 20 2011 06:10 TotalBiscuit wrote:

Oh this will end well.





Well what could possibly go wrong ? ^.^



On January 20 2011 06:12 aike wrote:

Show nested quote +

On January 20 2011 06:09 Hasire wrote:

If the replay is released to the public, then the player can't really expect money in return for it. If they hoard them expecting money, the casters will just go to someone else for reps.



How does one hoard replays when your opponent in the game has the exact same replay? How does one hoard replays when your opponent in the game has the exact same replay?



Well if you dont release a replay and some caster makes a few hundres (i obviously dont know the exact numbers ) bucks of it , is that really fair ? Well what could possibly go wrong ? ^.^Well if you dont release a replay and some caster makes a few hundres (i obviously dont know the exact numbers ) bucks of it , is that really fair ?

deL Profile Blog Joined March 2009 Australia 5540 Posts #15 I doubt blizzard would let you charge for replays. Gaming videos for fun ~ http://www.youtube.com/user/WijLopenLos

Hasire Profile Joined February 2010 United States 124 Posts #16 Typically you're never going to find a rep of a pro player though unless they release it, because they're playing on a Smurf.



Just by playing on "EGIdra" on ladder, Idra has to have an expectation of the replay being saved and someone turning a profit off it. If a player cares so much as to not want this to happen, stay on a smurf and customs with people you trust not to share the reps.



Players and casters only really care about the big-name reps, and not the 3500 player that only ladders/players in smaller tournies.

Tyree Profile Joined November 2010 1508 Posts #17 Casters already do alot for many of these players, HD, Husky, Day9 etc have helped promote many of these players who in turn get invites to more tournaments and acheive "efame".



Granted not all of them enjoy being pestered constantly but i bet more of them acutally enjoy being known for playing a video game.



The popular casters are one of the primary reasons why they are so famous at least in the SC community. ★ Top Gun ★

Sapphire.lux Profile Joined July 2010 Romania 2620 Posts #18 As far as i know the replays are 100% Blizzard property. If Blizzard is ok with casters making money displaying their product then all is good. Head Coach Park: "They should buff tanks!"

slappy Profile Blog Joined March 2010 United States 1271 Posts #19 I like the Korean commentators best, even though I don't understand 99% of what they're saying. Klazart is the only English commentator who compared to the intensity, but he is retired :-(



And OP, your idea sounds in tandem with Blizzard trying to charge OGN/MBC for broadcasting rights lol, but let's leave that subject to the threads dedicated to it ;-) jaedong imba

resilve Profile Blog Joined August 2010 United Kingdom 678 Posts Last Edited: 2011-01-19 21:22:52 #20 Very interesting point, however I think this attitude of intellectual property is detrimental to the game in the long run.



Players play to win tournaments, and replays are almost a meaningful cast-off of this training.



Replays where players dont reveal any training tactics but end up in some "weird epic fun" game have no value and meaning to them.



However, these replays have meaning to us fans, and they generate interest in both the game and in the players (and their sponsors).



So consider replays a useless by-product of players aiming to win tournaments and these games that everyone gets to enjoy simply serve to promote the players interests to become rich gamers, and the game's interests to get more players/fans.





_





I personally would rather see casters do casts for love of the game rather than financial profit myself, but if the do more 'good' than 'bad' in bringing fans to the game then I guess I am happy for them to make some cash on the side.



I personally dont watch these people's replays, because I dont consider they have the right ethos and ethics, but I wont deny the power of youtube VODs in terms of exciting the public and garnering SC2 interest.



I mean I only picked protoss because of White-ra's gosu plays in beta ^^ Socke Fighting!!!!

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