“After seeing Celtic loanee Patrick Roberts score against his parent club, Manchester City, in the Champions League, it got me thinking: what are other, significant historical examples of loanees doing the same against their own employers? And what were the consequences, if any, for the goalscorers?” asks Andy McGrath.

In short, there are many Andy and we’ll let Derek Robertson take it away with some considerable consequence for parent club, Real Madrid, in the Champions League, back in 2004. “I can answer this. While living in Madrid in 2004, I was able to annoy many of my Real Madrid-supporting students when they crashed out of the Champions League at the hands of Monaco. This was prime Galáctico era, with Raúl, Zidane, Ronaldo (the fat one), Roberto Carlos and David Beckham all turning out for Los Blancos.

The Premier League's 1950s-born players and football grounds named after sports | The Knowledge Read more

“Partly because of Florentino Pérez’s insistence that all the Galáticos play if fit, and his championing of a young Javier Portillo, Fernando Morientes found himself fourth-choice striker on the eve of the 2003-2004 season and so decided to leave on a season-long loan to Monaco. Karma intervened to ensure he would face his old side in the quarter-finals, though, and was to have the last laugh. While Madrid gave them a bit of a hiding at home in the first leg, scoring four and spurning numerous other chances, Morientes popped up to score his team’s second consolation goal in the 83rd minute, giving Monaco a glimmer of hope. In the return leg, Madrid were woeful and with two goals from Ludovic Giuly and another for Morientes, Monaco won 3-1, giving an aggregate score of 5-5; Monaco went through on away goals, meaning Morientes’ late goal at the Bernabéu had effectively won the tie.

“Perhaps even more delicious was the fact that, deep into stoppage time at Stade Louis II, Raúl, club captain and the man who Pérez considered undroppable, missed a golden chance to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat. The public backlash against Pérez was such that he had almost no choice but to bring Morientes back for the 2004-2005 season. However, Pérez is nothing if not stubborn and after buying Michael Owen, Morientes again found himself languishing on the bench. He lasted five months before forcing through a permanent transfer to Liverpool in January 2005.”

There are no recent Premier League examples because loanees do not play against their parent clubs – a rule introduced after Lomana LuaLua, on loan from Newcastle United, scored a late equaliser for Portsmouth in 2004. As Michael McCarthy points out: “LuaLua apologised to Newcastle fans after the game and the fallout of his goal led to the loan system in the Premier League being changed, so players can no longer play against their parent clubs. As we saw this week, though, that rule is still not in place in the Champions League.”

Before the rule was introduced in England, however, parent clubs were powerless to stop their players taking the field against them and Adam Harwood recalls an example from 2001. “A cash-strapped Wimbledon loaned out Denmark Under-21 striker David Nielsen to Norwich City. Nielsen had impressed towards the back end of the 2000-01 season, having joined the Dons in March of that year from FC Copenhagen, but with the purse strings tight, Norwich manager Nigel Worthington took him on to cover for injuries to Iwan Roberts and Zema Abbey.

“In just his second appearance for the Canaries, Neilsen opened the scoring against play-off chasing Wimbledon with an excellent diving header. But worse was to follow for the Dons, with Nielsen earning a penalty early in the second half for going down under pressure from a combination of Darren Holloway and Kenny Cunningham. Roberts converted the penalty but not before a visibly furious Dons keeper Kelvin Davis had been shown the red card for throwing the ball at Nielsen, who at the time remained a team-mate. Unsurprisingly, Nielsen never played in a Wimbledon shirt again. After two more loan appearances, Norwich signed the striker for a cut-price fee of £210,000.”

The rule was not in place in the Netherlands during the 2006-07 season either, as Ajax and Jan Vertonghen can demonstrate. Stephan Wignen has more. “I can mention Jan Vertonghen. When the Tottenham Hotspur defender was under contract at Ajax, he was on loan at RKC Waalwijk. With only four matches to play in the Eredivisie, Ajax drew 2-2 at RKC, with Vertonghen scoring a goal. Ajax won the last three matches but ended second on goal difference, after PSV Eindhoven. The difference between PSV and Ajax was only one goal.”



Next, Mike Slattery takes us back to the 1980s. “Every time this comes up, I recall Mick Ferguson’s end-of-season loan in 1983-84 from Birmingham City to Coventry City,” Mike writes. “Having scored eight goals in 20 appearances for Birmingham the season before, while on loan from Everton, he signed full time, only to spend most of the season sidelined with injuries. After two games and a single league goal, he was loaned to Coventry for the remainder of the season, on the old transfer deadline day in March. Coventry (where, incidentally, he’d begun his career and had scored more than 50 goals before joining Everton) were in the middle of their then-standard last-minute escape act and Mick went straight into the first team. He scored three goals in the final seven games of the season, including in the 2-1 win at Norwich on the final day, which kept the Sky Blues up and relegated … Birmingham City. Mick was shipped on to Brighton pretty sharpish on his return.”

Consequences, indeed. But perhaps not as grave as those recalled by Carl O’Reilly from the 2002 World Cup. “When you say consequence, one player instantly comes to mind. Ahn Jung-hwan was on loan with Italian side Perugia, when he scored an extra-time winner for South Korea, knocking Italy out of the 2002 World Cup. The next day the owner of Perugia cancelled Ahn’s contract, stating he wouldn’t pay a guy who ‘ruined’ Italian football. His goal jeopardised his chances in Italy but was pivotal in his home nation eventually reaching the world cup semi-final, worth it in my eyes.”

Facebook Twitter Pinterest Ahn Jung-hwan had his Perugia contract cancelled the day after scoring the goal that knocked Italy out of the 2002 World Cup. Photograph: Amy Sancetta/AP

Six syllables or more?

“While waiting patiently for the words ‘Britt Assombalonga’ to trip out of the commentator’s mouth during a recent Nottingham Forest game, I wondered whether his five syllables are the most in the surname of a professional player,” muses Tom Bird. “Jan Vennegoor of Hesselink might squeak it overall but how about one-word surnames?”

Ask and you shall receive Tom – here’s Martin Jones with a fairly recent example from the Premier League. “How about Everton’s former Russian winger Diniyar “Billy” Bilyaletdinov, normally pronounced Bil-ly-a-let-di-nov, hence six syllables?”

But Alex Guttenplan can go one better. “There are currently several seven-syllable players plying their trade in the Greek League – Theodoros Papoutsogiannopoulos at second-tier Aiginiakos FC and Stefanos Papoutsogiannopoulos of top-flight Panetolikos. As far as I can tell, they’re not related. There’s also Stavros Vasilantonopoulos (Veria FC), Kostas Triandafyllopoulos (Asteras Tripoli) – and outside Greece, Kostas Stavrothanasopoulos plays for third-tier Swedish side Akropolis IF!”

Exclamation mark, indeed. Andy Kelly has found another seven-syllabler, a bit closer to home. Brentford’s former Arsenal defender Ilias Chatzitheodoridis to be precise but Sean DeLoughry, among others, has been doing some digging in Madagascar. “Madagascar international Jhon Baggio Rakotonomenjanahary, quite sensibly known as John Baggio in the Thai Premier League, where he plies his trade with Sukhothai, revels in a nine-syllable surname. François Andrianomenjanahary is another nine-syllable Malagasy international.

Charlie Gardner goes on to point out that: “Although Rakotonomenjanahary missed his country’s last game, a 1-1 draw with Angola, the team still racked up an incredible 71 syllables between them, or 5.5 each including substitutes. Which begs the question, has anyone ever managed more? The lineup in full: Jean Dieu Randrianasolo, Mario Bakary, Mamy Gervais Randrianarisoa, Ando Manoelantsoa, Jean-Stephan Raheriharimanana, Haja Mirija Rasoanaivoarison, Pascal Razakanantenaina, Radahy Tolondrazana, Carolus Andriamahitsinoro, Faneva Andriatsima, Paulin Voavy, Dina Fiononana Razanakoto, Tantely Randrianiana.”



Facebook Twitter Pinterest Diniyar Bilyaletdinov in action for Everton against Chelsea. Photograph: Michael Regan/Getty Images

And how about this from Jonny Stoller: “No doubt there are plenty plying their trade in the Greek league, and perhaps some eastern European outposts, too, but can’t think of any others, apart from Stelios Giannakopoulos, who have appeared in the Premier League. Wouldn’t be surprised if there were a couple, though. In fact, Stelios gives rise to one of my favourite pieces of football trivia. In an otherwise unremarkable game in early 2004, in which Bolton beat Charlton 2-1 away from home, Giannakopoulos was substituted for Ibrahim Ba in the 16th minute. I am almost certain that, for one-word surnames, no other Premier League substitution will have involved such a large difference in the number of letters (12) between the respective players. And most likely syllables, too (five).”



Sheffield away days

“On 26 November both Sheffield clubs played away fixtures at the same time,” notes Andrew Wood. “Despite being a fan of Wednesday for more than 40 years, this is not an occurrence that I can remember happening before. Is this the case or is my memory fading, along with my good looks?”

Darren White can provided an excellent answer. “The last time this happened was almost 40 years ago to the day. On 27 November 1976, United played at Millwall winning 1-0 and Wednesday at Peterborough winning 2-1.”

More on unusual squad numbers

Last week’s Knowledge archive looked at unusual shirt numbers and we’ve got a neat little add, courtesy of Dirk Maas …

“In the 1990s, Finnish midfielder Mika Lehkosuo wore 96.2 – the FM frequency of a local radio station,” explains Dirk. “When HJK Helsinki qualified for the Champions League in the 1998-99 season, Lehkosuo was told that Uefa only allowed players to choose from 1 to 99. He chose 96.”



Knowledge archive

“Who was the first player to miss a penalty in a shootout in a football match in Britain?” asked Albert Lippett, a couple of years back.

Which players have scored hat-tricks on their international debuts? | The Knowledge Read more

On August 1 1970, a full-strength Manchester United team found themselves in Hull, playing in the semi-final of the Watney Mann Invitation Cup. The tournament was restricted to the two highest scoring teams from each division – excluding those recently promoted, relegated or in Europe. United made it by scoring 66 goals as they finished eighth in the First Division, while Hull qualified by topping the Second Division scoring charts with 72 goals in 42 games.

The FA had decided to allow – for the first time – penalty shootouts to be used if the matches were tied. Both Hull and United made it through their quarter-finals (against Reading and Peterborough respectively) and, when their match finished 1-1 after extra time, the scene was set for the world’s first penalty shootout.



George Best took the first penalty, scoring low to the keeper’s right. The next five penalties were also dispatched with ease. And then Denis Law stepped up and saw his penalty saved by Ian McKechnie, thus becoming the first player to miss in a shootout.

Not that it mattered too much. Hull missed their next two penalties and United sneaked through to the final. You know the rest: that year the shootout was adopted by Uefa and Fifa, and before long England and missed penalties were going together as nicely as butter and hot toast.

For thousands more questions and answers take a trip through the Knowledge archive.

Can you help?

“Have any British football teams failed to win a single one of their matches broadcast live on television? Is there a team that has yet to break its duck?” wonders Sam Higgins. And what is the highest-placed club in a professional football pyramid that has yet to be shown on live TV?”

“Looking at the top of the Scottish Premiership, it occurred to me that if St Johnstone could just get their act together and climb above Hearts, the initial letters of the first five teams would spell an actual word, ‘crash’,” points out Alistair Murdoch. “It got me wondering whether anyone out there has spotted any interesting words formed by the initial letters of teams in sequence in a league table (whether at the top or anywhere in the middle). Has the English league ever had Southampton, Arsenal, Newcastle, Tottenham and Aston Villa sitting together, to pick a festive example?”

“Which team has played the most games in Football League Trophy history?” wonder TheCumbrians.net. “Our beloved Carlisle United have a rich tradition with six finals, winning two, as well as two northern final appearances and other decent runs, so must be near the top of any list.”

World Cup: 25 stunning moments … No21: Italy lose to South Korea, 2002 | Paolo Bandini Read more

“Dutch club De Graafschap axed their manager Jan Vreman recently after a rather prolonged poor run of form. A new manager has been found but because of contractual issues Henk de Jong will only start in January. So far, so ordinary,” says Bas Vlaming. “However, interim manager Jan Oosterhuis was supposed to be in charge for the two final matches this year before De Jong takes charge but he did a Mourinho and got himself sent off last weekend for arguing with the referee, requiring a fourth manager to come into the fold (Dennis te Braak). Long story short: in four subsequent matches, De Graafschap will have four different managers in charge. Is this the longest such streak? I wouldn’t be surprised if a Cagliari or another club with a trigger-happy owner has achieved such a thing but I haven’t been able to find it. Can the Knowledge use its vast anorakism and help me out?”

“Bayer Leverkusen last night missed their fifth penalty in a row from normal play,” observed Peter Hughes, last Thursday. “Going back further, they have missed 12 of their last 20 penalties. While it didn’t make a difference last night, they have already dropped six points in the league this season thanks to missed penalties. Are there any teams with worse penalty-taking records (excluding penalty shootouts)?”