I literally sat my fat butt up in my seat and I go, ‘Oh my God, I got exactly what he’s going to do, and this will work.’

And the important thing is he went after it … by making the villain government policies: trade and treaties that have destroyed the jobs. He didn’t villainize the Chinese people, he didn’t even villainize their government—he villainized our stupid politicians. But what that gave him, from beginning to end, was credibility and sincerity because his message did not change from the beginning to the end of his campaign. It was ‘Our government is screwing you’. So the enemy was the Republican elite, the Democrat elite, the media as their propaganda arm, and the corporates.

Appelbaum: You’ve made the point to me that Trump was masterful in understanding how to manipulate the press and that he reminded you, in that respect, of Howard Stern. Can you tell me more about that?

Cave: Stern, when he got syndicated, Stern had to get his audience figures very quickly. And he couldn’t be ahead of his opposition by 10 percent because the ad agencies would buy around him because the show was controversial. But because it was controversial, it was compelling. So what he had to do was to get a huge advantage in ratings mass really quick. He did it by attacking the opposition—starting with Imus in New York, then he went to Boston. And when those guys were stupid enough to violate their own rule—which was to respond—that advertised Stern to Imus’s audience, and enough of them liked it because Stern’s show is compelling great content for what it is. It ain’t my bag, but it is for the people who like it. He became number one in ratings in every major city—showing the technique is effective.

Appelbaum: And you saw this in Donald Trump?

Cave: Instantly, when that sentence was said. And my confidence that it would work was constantly reinforced as I watched it play out. I was watching this whole thing play out, laughing at all the Republicans who took the bait. Trump was brilliant. He would say something to attack the other guy, and then the media would talk and say: “Oh my God, he attacked Jeb Bush and even [George] W. Bush in South Carolina. Jeb, what do you think about that?” At which point Jeb should say: “Well, Donald Trump is not a serious player and I’m going to be your president,” and make his own case. But he didn’t do that; he talked about Trump. Trump was talking about Trump, he got the media talking about Trump, and he had the opponents talking about Trump. How brilliant is that?

Appelbaum: One of the other things that Donald Trump did that was unconventional was that rather than focus on raising money for advertising, he spent much of the campaign doing mass-audience live events. A lot of political pundits questioned that choice; you looked at it and saw something familiar, right?