



TELL ME A BIT ABOUT YOURSELF -- ANYTHING THAT YOU THINK DRAWS THE FRAMEWORK THAT YOUR MODS FIT INTO. That's a tough one. Certainly, it all "fits" in some sense, but, without being so selective about which demographic details to present as to give a distorted picture, it's hard to draw a framework that "fits" my modifications in an intuitive way. I'm forty-one years old, male (of course), and my sexual orientation is male to male. I share my life with another male who is about two years my junior, and we both consider the relationship to be permanent. He, incidentally, is not enthused about my interest in body modification: It's not the modification itself he minds, it's the additional modifications I want to perform -- the idea of me modifying myself surgically scares him -- but we've been together now for four and a half years. Outside of completing the bisection of my penis, to the juncture with my abdoment, I also want to open a second 'piss hole' behind the scrotum, and to stretch the the portion of the urethra between the original opening and this second outlet to permit inter- penile intercourse, with either unmodified males or other males having similarly bifurcated penises. I hold a BA in Economic Geography from Ohio State, '81, and until very recently was a manager in the group underwriting area of a large insurance company. My social life revolves around my home and life partner, biological family (mine and his), a modest circle of close friends, and a lot of acquaintances that come and go. I'm sometimes a bit of recluse, so the credit for maintaining many of these relationships belongs to my partner. Neither of us is active in social or community organizations. Together we live in a ranch home in the suburbs of Columbus, Ohio. I'm the oldest of five. I have three sisters and a brother. Mom is from Buffalo, New York, of Hungarian and German descent; Dad is from NYC, of mostly German descent; and they remain happily married. I was born in the middle of the afternoon on a hot day in August 1956, in Buffalo, New York. My father was an insurance salesman, and travelled a lot for work. As a result, my mother did most of the child-rearing. My family moved around a lot, entirely within the Northeastern US, moving from Buffalo, to Long Island, back to Buffalo, to Boston, back to Buffalo again, to Pittsburgh and finally to Philadelphia where I completed high school and became active in the local democratic party. After high school, I moved with my family to Columbus, Ohio where I began attending the Ohio State University, with interest in an eventual career in law and politics. I became involved with a religious group (some would say a 'cult') at the age of 18, with which I travelled for about two and half years, spending significant amounts of time in California and in and around New York City. In 1978 I became disenchanted with this group and returned to Columbus where I soon resumed my education. By this time I had come to feel disillusioned with law and politics, and took an interest in City and Regional Planning (hence my degree in Economic Geography). I was encouraged to continue my schooling and perhaps eventually to teach at the college level, but I was anxious to make a life in the 'real' world and began looking for work. Unable to find work in my chosen profession, I held a variety of jobs over the next five years. In 1986 I took a job as an insurance underwriter in order to 'pay the bills', expecting it to be temporary (insurance is the dead last place I ever thought I'd find myself), but within a short time I came to feel committed to certain projects I'd begun and also I was fortunate to see a rapid increase in income and benefits which then became hard to give up. That takes us up to the present. The operation that has employed me for the past 11+ years is now in the process of shutting down (the shut-down was announced right around the time I received your questions which is the reason I was unable to respond sooner), and I'm looking at the prospect of losing some of the material benefits I've enjoyed, but this situation has also given me the best opportunity I may ever have to reevaluate life's goals and consider making some changes I've been wanting to make for a long time... perhaps move to the West Coast, live more simply, and maybe open a coffee house or one of about half a dozen other small business ventures I've been thinking about. (Porgy was right: "De folks wid plenty o' plenty got a lock on de door, 'fraid somebody's a-goin' to rob 'em while dey's out a-makin' more. What for?") WHEN DID YOU ACTUALLY COME OUT, BOTH TO YOURSELF, TO YOUR FRIENDS, AND TO OTHERS? For me at least, reconciling external and internal conflicts, 'coming out', was a process rather than a moment. I had substantially 'come out' to friends and family by my middle twenties, but another ten years went by before I felt I had resolved the issues that were most significant for me. I don't think that where I would eventually arrive had been a matter of doubt to me since I was in my early twenties, but once the destination was recognized the trip had yet to be made. PREVIOUSLY, WERE YOU LIVING A SECRET LIFE, OR A LIFE OF DENIAL? No, not exactly. My first efforts to seek out other men for sexual contact were furtive, but I would not say that living a secretive life style ever became a stable or long-term pattern. As I began to meet more people and I became more confident I also became progressively more open. On the other hand, even today there are some people, such as certain individuals connected with my work, with whom I feel I need to be more discrete. In my own case, there's a connection between body modification and sexual orientation, but I think that requires some explanation: For me, the process of coming to terms with my desire for other men (and the many implications of that such as a decision to forgo 'conventional' family life or the possibility of children) was also a process of overcoming a taboo, it was a process of distinguishing between this taboo and morality, and it was a process of gaining confidence in my own connection to God rather than relying on definitions of morality provided by others. The perspective gained as a result of that process opened the door to possibilities that hadn't existed before. I had been secretly fascinated with the idea of splitting my penis ever since reading about the circumcision rite of certain Australian Aboriginal peoples when I was in my teens, but I would never allow myself to give it serious thought. Now, having broken one taboo that defined my teens and much of my early twenties, in the process of embracing my sexuality, I began to think about this other thing that was previously unthinkable. Suddenly, it was not only possible for me to consider the idea of splitting my penis, and idea which had always excited me for its own sake, but how better to symbolize and commemorate the passage which I had just made than by remaking my sexual organ. IN BREAKING THE SEXUALITY TABOO, YOU MADE YOURSELF CAPABLE OF PERFORMING EXTREME GENITAL MODIFICATIONS. WERE OTHER ASPECTS OF YOUR LIFE SIMILARLY AFFECTED? (DID YOU START SKY DIVING?) I didn't mean to suggest that there was a direct causal relationship between overcoming the sexuality taboo and splitting my cock. It was not exactly "this therefore that". Rather the two were causally related in a collateral sense. The idea of genital modification was erotically exciting to me apart from any sexual identity issues; but erotic stimulation is something that the idea of genital modification and the idea of sexual intercourse with my own gender both share. It also seems to me that genital modification and male-male intercourse fall under similar taboos, and these taboos somehow feel different from taboos applying to other things. Perhaps it could even be said that they fall under a single broad taboo which applies to the use of one's body. (So the weakening of one is the weakening of the other.) Furthermore, my particular modifications seem symbolically analogous to certain aspects of overcoming these taboos and also to the subsequent personal growth which this engendered. But, sky diving, to use your example, shares none of these characteristics for me. Other aspects of my life have indeed changed, but for the most part, other than my mods, these are more internal than external. These involve transcending my body, transcending life even, in terms of being able to view my life (and my body) from a larger perspective, to be the master of my body and of my life rather than living as a servant to my body and in constant fear of death. However, there are many threads that come together here, and I don't wish to imply that I believe there's a linear connection between sexual orientation and body modification. In my case, it was overcoming fear of rejection -- not only by others but possibly by God himself -- in accepting myself in terms of my sexual orientation that liberated me to explore a previously latent interest in body modification, but I don't think that my interest in body modification itself arose from my sexual orientation. I suspect that a latent interest in body modification is probably present in equal proportion among individuals of all sexual orientations, but individuals whose sexual orientation is not in conflict with conventional mores may be less likely to experience certain sorts of watershed events that in my case helped to trigger exploration of this interest.



HOW AND WHEN DID YOU FIRST GET INTERESTED IN GENITAL MODIFICATION? I have had fantasies about various sorts of physical modification since I was very young. These were not specifically genital, and some of them went way beyond what is credible. I remember one late night, when I was about ten years old, sitting up with my parents and watching a 'B'-grade movie about the lost continent of Atlantis. In the movie, were hybrid creatures with the bodies of young men and the heads of bulls, and I can remember feeling very aroused by this even though I did not yet understand the meaning of arousal or know that what I felt had a name. I also remember a Saturday morning children's program, not exactly a cartoon -- more like claymation or similar technology -- in which normal people could be turned into 'plant people' by receiving an injection of some sort, and then would begin to change shape, sprout leaves from their shoulders, and so forth. I found it exciting to close my eyes and imagine my body changing in this way. When I became a little older, and more aware of my genitals, I liked to play be inserting various objects up my urethra. I can remember having vague ideas about changing the shape of my genitals, but nothing very specific. I think I felt some fear that I was crossing a line and I did not indulge my thoughts too much. When I was in my teens, I would get very excited reading about various circumcision rites, and remember feeling regret that I did not have a foreskin (I was circumcised at birth) and the options which that would give me. Most exciting was one story I came across about the circumcision rites of Australian aboriginal peoples, which described how after removal of the foreskin the underside of the penis would be slit open to about two inches below the original opening of the meatus; and that older men, having already had this procedure performed, would often ask to have their own subincisions extended. This particular story also mentioned a tribe of legend which cut not only the lower side, but also the upper half, so that the penis was completely bifurcated in homage to the serpent god. At this time I could not seriously imagine that I might ultimately perform this operation on myself, but I couldn't get this story out of my head and I secretly desired to have my own organ modified in this way. Six or seven years ago, I saw a picture of Carl Carrol. This was the first I had ever seen a bifurcated penis, and it revived memories of the story I had once read about the aborigines. At this point I'd already given myself a PA (but removed it because I wasn't satisfied with how it was healing), enlarged my pisshole by cutting it about halfway to where the PA had been, and done some other experimental cutting of the skin around the shaft of my penis in attempts to recreate a foreskin. Seeing Carl's picture gave me the inspiration to progress.



WAS THERE A GRADUAL PROGRESSION BETWEEN MODIFICATIONS? (I.E. PIERCING TO SUBINCISION TO BIFURCATION.) Yes, I started out with a PA without anticipation of further mods, then later gave myself a partial meatotomy. It had been rolling around in my head for a long time as fantasy, but I was afraid of it. I think it began to take on a certain reality to me, at least insofar as 'yes, I could really do this', after I had enlarged my piss hole and seen a picture of Carl Carroll. However, the thought that I really might do it came quite suddenly. One Friday night I felt inspired. I sat in my bath tub, I think with the idea that I might just give myself a meatotomy. When I began cutting I don't think I ever imagined how far I would actually go. Watching the glans fall open as I completed the meatotomy was so exciting that I wanted to continue. After the first couple of cuts the pain seemed to disappear and it was almost as if I was watching from some vantage point outside my own body. Only when the bleeding became too heavy did I stop. By that time I had extended the incision all the way down to the scrotum. The following month I was in San Francisco on business and decided to take some vacation time (saving the cost of airfare). It was late September, and originally my plan had been to drive up the coast. I actually started out, but by the end of the first day I was longing more for some human contact than I was for yet another hundred miles of scenery, so I headed back to SF. I ran into a couple guys I knew from Columbus who told me they were there for leather week (dumb me, I didn't even know, and leather is something I'm into). My mind was made up. That night I ran into a couple guys in one of the leather clubs south of Market, and they invited me to a small private 'party' at the business establishment one of them was running (which also happened to be his living space). He and the other guy, who was now living in Denver, had once dated and still remained good friends. The Denver guy, 'Scott', and I sort of had a chemistry and hung around that week. It was Scott who suggested the full split. (Actually, that's how I interpreted his question. He later told me that he had meant splitting the ball sack.) No one needed to twist my arm and a short time later I started working on the upper half. That had to be done in several stages: The tissue is thicker and tougher there than on the underside, and certain areas seem to have a high concentration of nerve fibers so that it was possible to cut only a little at a time. DO YOUR FRIENDS KNOW ABOUT YOUR MODS? HOW DO THEY REACT? Excepting sexual partners, I have a few friends who know about my mods. I've been surprised by the lack of questions or apparent interest. I think that extreme modifications of this sort call up deep atavistic emotions that friends may be uncomfortable confronting, or in other words they might not want to know the answers for fear of what the answers say about them -- or to them. WHAT HAS THE RESPONSE FROM LOVERS BEEN? Some freak out, but those are generally the close-minded assholes I want to screen out anyway. Most are indifferent. A few can't get enough. HAVE YOU EVER MET ANYONE WITH SIMILAR MODS? Not in person. I'd like to. I've been corresponding with a couple individuals and maybe that will change soon. WHAT ARE YOUR FEELINGS ABOUT YOUR MODS? I do feel they're personal in the sense of not sharing this with everyone. There's a saying, "Don't throw your pearls before swine, and don't give dogs what is holy". But I like sharing them with people I think are open and don't don attitudes of pseudo-horror and self-righteous moralization. In that context, yes I would say I feel proud. Like, 'look at me'. I guess I'm a show-off at heart. I'm a little bit of an exhibitionist, especially in certain crowds and situations. I like the reaction I get from some people. And, having mods like this is unique. I like being recognized as someone who can do this.

WHAT ABOUT THE RESPONSE OF MEN AT URINALS? (OR DO YOU SIT NOW?) I use urinals in certain settings, as in a leather bar (where you couldn't pay me enough to sit on the toilet!), but I usually am not too comfortable being watched in that setting. When I am watched in that setting, I don't seem to get comments. I suspect a lot of guys don't know what to say, or aren't sure what they're seeing! HOW DO YOU JUSTIFY TO PEOPLE (OR YOURSELF) THAT YOU'RE NOT CRAZY FOR HAVING PERFORMED SUCH A SERIOUS MODIFICATION ON YOURSELF? I don't try to justify. For one thing, I've never thought for a moment that I'm crazy because I've done this. It's just my body; I can't take it with me; I might as well have some fun with it while I've got it; and besides, what I've done is no different than what the doctor did to me at birth. IS IT A MATTER OF "IF THEY DON'T GET IT, THEY NEVER WILL"? I mostly agree with that statement, but I don't think that's got anything to with crazyness in the sense to which I was refering (or understood you to be refering in your original question to me). If one's perspective is that crazyness is nothing more than a socially constructed concept and that the term "crazy" is equivalent to "different" or "eccentric" or "marginal" or whatever, then yes "if they don't get it, they never will"; and in the narrow context in which that definition is applied (ie American culture) then I am indeed crazy, but it's not an issue for me because I don't consider the label a 'negative' when used in that way. However, there is also a clinical definition of "crazy", ie having one or more various severe psychic dysfunctions. This definition has often been mixed up with the former, by people who wish to label as dysfunctional others who are merely different; and I think this has sometimes been done consciously for eggregious reasons as well as out of mere ignorance. I think that labeling all individuals with an interest in genital modification as a form of the latter sort of crazyness would be an example of that confusion, and with regard to myself I don't believe that the latter definition of crazy applies. (That is not to say I think that there are not some forms and patterns of self-mutilation that are probably related to real psychological illness, but I don't think you can just look at someone who has a defined and controlled interest in certain forms of body modification and say that such a person is 'crazy' in the second sense that I've used it.)

WHAT PROCEDURES DID YOU USE TO DO THE SUBINCISION? I started with a sterilized exacto knife, but once I had cut about a half inch below the meatus I noticed that the knife was leaving a jagged cut and it was difficult to keep it straight. I have a pair of scissors used for cutting roots on orchids for repotting: these were fairly new, and the two blades fit very tightly. I decided to try these and found they produced a very precise cut without pinching. I continued the cut with these. AND WHEN YOU STARTED SPLITTING THE TOP HALF? For the superincision, I first had to split the head, of course. For this I used either an exacto knife or a pen knife. Over the course of a several sessions I was able to cut the head down about two-thirds of the way to its base. This is a slow process, partly because of bleeding and partly because it's damn painful! At that point I reached what seemed to be a bundle of nerve fibers and which slowed my progress even further: Each time I would cut through the top layer of newly healed skin (from the prior cutting) just the touch of the knife blade against the exposed nerve fibers was excruciating -- much more painful than the first two thirds of the head had been. I had to find another approach. I had earlier experimented with various sorts of needles to find which ones were best for piercing skin. (I did not have ready access to either piercing needles or the hollow- point needles used in syringes.) I found that glovers needles, which are used for leather work, are good for this purpose. (However, they are generally made of an alloy which is not non-reactive, ie it rusts!, and I would not recommend that anyone using this approach leave needles of this type in the skin for any period of time.) I used a glovers needle to thread a piece of brass wire through my penis below the spot I was having trouble with, cinched the brass wire tight (which helped to reduce sensation) and then used the wire as a guide for the knife. I continued using this approach until I had completed splitting the head and extended the incision an additional two inches or so. Recently, to extend the bisection, I began using forceps to clamp off the area I want to cut and no longer use the needle and cinch method. WERE ANAESTHETICS USED? I've never used anaesthetics. I'm not into pain, as such, but I want to feel the cutting. It is, for me, a sort of manhood rite, which can be had only through enduring the pain. And I want to feel my body as I perform this rite. That is not to say I do not try to find less painful methods for doing the cutting. But anaesthetics seem too clinical and artificial. HOW MUCH PAIN AND BLEEDING DID YOU EXPERIENCE? Cutting the underside was not difficult in terms of the pain. Once I had made the first couple cuts, my endorphins kicked in and I experienced mild euphoria and a sense of separation from my body. But that became dangerous when I began to see excessive bleeding and did not stop. Over the following twelve to twenty-four hours I soaked several towels in my own blood and at one point passed out on the floor of bedroom only to wake up several minutes later soaked in more blood. I finally got it to slow down and stop. I stayed in bed for three days and only got out to drink milk and take vitamins, to replenish the blood I'd lost. When I began cutting the topside, I'd already learned my lesson about trying to cut too much at once. (The rule now is that when the bleeding first starts to get heavy I stop, immediately, and let the cut heal before I continue.) But, as I mentioned, the topside was much more painful and I could not say how many times I've worked on it to get to the point I'm at now ... and I still have a ways to go. WAS THE EXPERIENCE EVER A FRIGHTENING ONE? Well, yes, of course. The bleeding itself didn't scare me too much at first, but when I saw it spurting, I could not get it to stop, and I began losing consciousness when I would stand up, you better believe I was scared! I thought I might die, and I could have. But in retrospect I think that was a good experience. (I'm not sure, though, what my conclusion about this experience would have been if the outcome had been different). YOU SAY YOUR SUBINCISION WAS ORIGINALLY INTO THE SCROTUM -- IT LOOKS SHORTER NOW. WHY IS THAT? At certain points as I progressed with the bisection and would want the cut on the topside to heal (because I was dating someone, or whatever), it tended to pull open repeatedly and would bleed. So, in order to help hold the two sides of my penis together to help the top half to heal, I reopened both sides of the lower part of my subincision, layered the skin, and sutured these together. WHAT TYPE OF AFTERCARE DID YOU USE DURING THE HEALING? For any but the most minor cuts, I keep things wrapped in Soft-Wick© or other non-sticking gauze pads which I've coated in antiseptic such as Neosporin© cream. I also make sure to clean the area regularly, and wipe it down or flush it with Betadine© or similar antibacterial wash. I generally keep an antibiotic around and take these at any sign of infection. For major cuts, like the subincision, I also soak the cut regularly in a tub of hot water which seems to help the healing process. DID YOU EXPERIENCE ANY NEGATIVE AFTEREFFECTS? After the entire cut (which had taken several months to complete) had healed, there was at first some reduced sensitivity along the inside surfaces of the incision and in adjacent areas where some scar tissue had developed. Over time, however, the scar tissue diminished and I've found that full, or nearly full, sensitivity has returned to the original outer surfaces of my penis and I also enjoy the sensations resulting from stimulation of the inside surfaces which are now exposed. The scar tissue which developed at first had another interesting effect. The inner, incised surface was pulled tight by the scar tissue so that the outer surfaces of my penis were actually longer than the inner surface. This caused each half of my penis to bow inwards. That effect has practically disappeared as the scar tissue has softened and been replaced by normal epithelial tissues. One effect which I did not fully anticipate, and about which I do have some regret, is that my erections are no longer as firm as they once were. The bands of connective tissue which surround the cavernous bodies and hold them tightly together seem to be critical to erectile rigidity. I am still able to get erections as always, and each half of my penis becomes engorged, but without the same degree of rigidity which my penis had previously. Erect, my penis has always been relatively large in diameter but not extremely long, and the combined effect of splitting the penis and reducing erectile rigidity is similar to the effect which would be realized by further widening and shortening of the penis; so I now find that insertion is often quite difficult. (Although the attempt is sometimes interesting!)

DO YOU HAVE AN INTEREST IN NULLIFICATION? ARE THESE STEPS TOWARDS REMOVAL? Definitely not nullification. Once it's gone, the funs over. I want to keep playing with it, but in that vein I'm sure I'll continue to think of new ways to modify it. TELL ME A BIT MORE ABOUT YOUR RELIGIOUS/SPIRITUAL BACKGROUND. I was raised Lutheran. Although my personal beliefs are strongly influenced by Judeo-Christian thought, I don't consider myself to be either Jewish or Christian. If God has a voice, I believe it's least likely to be heard by those who aren't listening for it because they're already sure they have the inside track. HAVE YOU HEARD GOD'S VOICE? When I used the term "God's voice" just now, I was using it figuratively, but in that sense the answer to your question is "yes", and I am always listening.. WHAT DO YOU THINK GOD THINKS ABOUT YOUR MODS, IF ANYTHING? As far as the mods themselves, I think God would perhaps berate me mildly for putting myself at jeopardy (I've taken some risks I should not have taken), but would otherwise regard it as a moot issue. In terms of their spiritual and transcendental significance, I think God would approve. WHERE DO YOU STAND SPIRITUALLY AT THIS POINT? I believe that there is an awful lot I do not know. I believe that we have a spirit which transcends our body, and that continues after death. I believe in a superior being, a God, that is good; and that there are certain absolutes, including an absolute definition of good and of evil. I am comforted by prayer. I try live my life according to these beliefs, as if these things were true. But I do not know these things. So, one of my prayers is that I may know the truth of these things, and that I would live according to the truth as it is revealed. I am not afraid of what awaits me after death, because I believe in the goodness of God and that God knows the sincerity of my desire to know the truth and do what is good; and if I am wrong in my belief and God is not good, then I have no hope regardless of anything I may do or believe. HOW DOES YOUR BIFURCATION FIT INTO YOUR TRANSCENDENTAL/SPIRITUAL LIFE? At a most basic level, this modification transcends the physical body in terms of modifying it and also in terms of overcoming the physical pain and possibly danger which accompany the cutting itself. At a symbolic level it represents overcoming fear of death of the physical body, and fear of what may await on the other side. For me, it represents victory in the moral struggle that let me put these fears aside. WHAT ADVICE WOULD YOU HAVE TO PEOPLE CONSIDERING HEAVY GENITAL MODS? Don't take it too fast. Do your proverbial homework. Take appropriate precautions. Be sure it's something you want and that you can live with what you've got afterwards. If you have the opportunity, talk to someone who has personal experience with the mods you're interested in; but make sure it's someone who will provide balanced counsel, and not push you to do something you're not ready to do. Once you make the decision, take personal responsibility for it. Enjoy the hell out of it. You can learn more about genital splitting, subincision, nullification,

and other heavy genital modification in BME/extreme.