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Life as a goth A Warwickshire teenager is so fed up by the way she is treated by her peers and grown-ups because of the way she dresses she has penned a vigorous defence of herself in the town's monthly newsletter.



Portia Cranmer lives in Shipston-on-Stour and is finding life is rough because she has chosen to be a goth. As a result she felt compelled to justify her looks publicly in a local newsletter. Do you dare to be yourself? Are you an individual and proud to stick out? Or are you a conformist who is more Sugababes than Sisters of Mercy? Let us know by using the form at the bottom of this page. Our South Warwickshire reporter Russell Joslin caught up with Portia at her home where he found her dressed in a dark blazer with a pink pin-stripe, a black t-shirt with a logo and skull, chains around her neck and with black trousers, a chain hanging off, tinted hair and a nose-ring. The teenager explained her grievances. She said: “When I’m going out people are usually looking at me with funny looks. I feel really intimidated – they’re watching me everywhere I go so it’s really creepy. It (happens) just about everywhere, especially Shipston where I live. I just feel watched. “I wouldn’t say I chose to be a goth – it chose me really because I slowly progressed from being conformist wearing pink and frills with long blonde hair. I went to punk for a while then I tried this and this is what I feel comfortable in.” Her mother Anna is proud of her daughter. She told Russell: “To be yourself is what life’s all about. And if that’s what she wants to do then I back her all the way. “At this age they’re finding themselves and she’s cutting the apron strings and is not part of me anymore.” Melanie Denyer has been running goth clubs and events in Scotland for a number of years and she explained to BBC Coventry & Warwickshire’s Liz Kershaw what being a goth was all about. She said: “It’s more of a fashion statement for some people, some people are into the music but don’t necessarily dress in black. “It’s not a lifestyle as such – we don’t sit at home and drink blood and stuff. I think people mainly like the fashion and the community. In the clubs that I run they like to get together and go to a place where everyone’s like minded and into the same things. “There’s no violence – probably one of the friendliest places you can go to is a goth club to be honest.” Menlanie’s advice to Portia about not conforming to the norm was simple: She said: “I’ve been called all sorts of things in my time. If she doesn’t want to conform to the norm, You’re going to be just as unhappy if you’re going to dress in a way that’s not expressing how you feel. So I think she should stand up for herself a bit more.” Even our Vic from the webteam admits to have been a goth in the late 80’s/early 90’s when there was a thriving scene in Coventry (though her passion for pink jumpers would suggest otherwise now). Were you or are you still a goth? Let us know what you think about dressing away from the norm. What hassle did you get? And was it worth it? Dispel the myths using the form below. last updated: 21/02/06 Have Your Say We want to know about your experiences of being a goth. Please leave your contact details - don't worry, they won't be published. Your name: Your comment: The BBC reserves the right to edit comments submitted. My.Chemical.Romance.Ruuuuule

With me, i reckon i suit the goth look the best. It goes well with my eyes, hair, and skin tone. I am more of a CLASSY goth. lol. U know. The type that like 2 look very lady-like. I do tend 2 wear punk-style hoodies and jeans sumtimes tho, aswell. I have my own style. Wot i luv is wearin black eye-liner with a smudged look, and the result is usually...wow! lol. Men luv the way i look. Goes 2 show the benefits of wot bein goth can b!! :) xoxo Trevor Potts

Yeah, I'm goth. I kind of had no idea what the scene was all about until early this year, but that didn't stop me from wearing black hoodies for three years of my life.I guess it was early this year when I started getting into the music (Sisters of Mercy, Bauhaus, Joy Division, etc.) that I realized what "being goth" really meant. What I think is kind of pathetic is that the whole idea of goth has been hijacked by a bunch of teenagers who think mainstream hardcore bands and baggy pants that they market in suburban malls are what goth is really all about. Back in the eighties and nineties you could tell when someone really is a part of the subculture just by their clothes, but now things have kind of changed, I suppose. Pseudonym Luna (Liz)

I've been goth since sixth grade (for 3 yrs now), and while a lot of ppl in some parts of that state I live in give me weird looks when I dress, as my parents call it "overly goth", a lot of ppl in the town I live in are very open to individuals (although they themselves are mainly conformists). It's a lot nicer in this town than the city I used to live in (which is literally five mins away). The city I lived in, while more nonconformist in some ways, was less willing to accept what they didnt know or like. A lot of my friends now are outside the norm. My friend Noelle is a goth hippie, my friend Sara is an emo-goth, and my other friends are just extremely random, but they dont judge, and theyre very loving individuals. The Hex Box

Good on you. We are a new stall at coventry market. We work hard to raise interest in goth/alternative/metal scene and would love you to come down have a chat and tell us what coventry is missing so we can fill any gaps, cheers ceri (the hippy one ) and richard (the scarey one with the ginger beard) xxxx Klarz

I've only been Goth for a year now, but being in Australia, I hardly get any insults or attacks. Just some stares now and then. But despite all this, I stay a Goth, it's just who I am. Everyone says we are conforming but those same people believe Goth is just about wearing black and listening to Manson (which is not Goth music). They just hate what they do not understand. beck

im a goth been so for 7 years . announcing it to my family was an awful experince never did i felt so alone , but gradually they have excepted me for who i am and my mum has taking an liking to my clothing . i wish that certain members of the public would just leave the goth people alone there has been many attacks when will it end . i put up with alot of prejudice from people will be get to see it finally end Someone..

Ive been goth for about..2 months. And i love it. No comments from kids because its summer break and i barely see them in public..but just imagining that ambercrombie and fitch and hollister were whats called goth today..and goth was the hollister and fitch..but gothic clothing still looked the same if it were hollister. People would look at it so different. I don't wear chains..barely any skulls..i wear band shirts and jeans and converses and i get stared at. Pathetic People these days. If only they know were laughing inside while there staring and they think were a ball full full or anger and were not! Gothic people are the most social people and really smart. They don't care what the style is and focus on academics and get what they want and wear it with pride and they do very well in school. Liz

dressed in a dark blazer with a pink pin-stripe, a black t-shirt with a logo and skull, chains around her neck and with black trousers, a chain hanging off, tinted hair and a nose-ringshe is not a goth. Joy

It was about some months ago when I told my parents I wanted to be like...umm goth, I mean I was always into the gothic style but I didn't wear all black, eyeliner or theses strange beautiful clothes, or black lipstick...so my mom thought it was just a phase or i wouldn't overdo it, my dad would always joke at me, calling me ''gotha''. well, whatever, i wasn't THAT gothic by the looks before one month or less, i suppose. cause i wore black but kinda normal black clothes. my parents are open minded so i don't have a big problem. the only thing that would make my mom worried was the way i would think from now and on, like maybe feel death so close to me i would even kill myself! hell no, i said to her...well, the thing is i like that style , i like to be different, some times i would really like to be called ''freak'' from some guys, (my cousin was ready to punch some friends of him because they called me freak). but i went to Mc Donalds yesterday with my 10 year old sister because i really wanted to go out and all my friends are on vacation (i'm 15) and when we sit at a table , she wouldn't notice anything, in fact she likes me that way, but there were that guys one of them showed me at his friend, and then all the team turned to my direction. i pretened i didn't care or even didn't notice that. just some days before that, we were with my friend, Magda and her brother out and we saw a classmate of mine with some friends of his. he told me hi so did i and his friend repeated my name like (my classmate said, hi joy) so he repeated saying : we said joy, not sorrow...) it is just like why people want to make me sad that much? i just want to be who i am, and i love who i am!people turn around in the street and look at me, i can't just pretend i don't see them! duh, help me God! Craig Hickey

Conforming to non conformity is still conforming. Romanticide

I am a Goth as most people like calling me because the way of thinking and style suits me perfectly. I don't like putting labels on myself but I'm always being called one. It's not about listening to 'dark music' and wearing chains, t-shirts with skulls printed on them like other people here have already said. It's a lifestyle; it's a way of being, not just a fashion trend. The media seem to think that being Goth is all about dressing in black but you get many different types. The media are extremely ignorant about the lifestyle as they know absolutely nothing. They make out that we like drinking blood and that stuff but it's the opposite. We are normally very quiet, peaceful people who just want to get on with their lives.I think I'm quite lucky because I haven't had many negative comments so far. In fact, most of my family have accepted me for who I am. I feel really sorry for those who get picked on though. If you don't like us, don't bother saying anything. Nobody ever forced you to confirm to the lifestyle... Anthony Stoker

I have been in the goth scene for like 5 years now, and still its a thing im proud of and nowhere near ashamed, I find from my childhood and early teenage life so boring as a normal, but when getting into the goth sub-culture I felt alot more stronger and better in myself. I find being alongside other goths exactly like a family where we share real friendships, great intelligence, great scense of humor and to be honest I find goths way more intelligent and well behaved than alot of the public media who say that we should "sort our lifes out" or "freaks!" I find comments like that extreemly disgusting and ignorant, i myself have had lost of nasty comments from some of the public media and teenagers who call themselves "chavs" and whats the talk about "chavs vs goths"? goths just want to be peiceful and totally egnore their existence, so why are people saying that goths fight at all? or are these mistaken for emos or moshers that may however involve themselves in the battle against chavs? im not sure but personally i dont think we should have all these difficulties and misunderstandings with each other because at the end of the day we are all human and not objects. Treeboy

I didn't knowthere were any goths in shipston, i live pretty close to there and i've never see one whenever i go, is nice to know there is more of us in the area. I mean i would part with my coats for anything, love them to bits shown by the rips from over use. I know what it feels like to be insulted for the way I dress, I've gotten over it now, is the best way really. J.

I found myself, in my late teens, amidst the Goth sub-culture. I got to say it was, and still is, my favourite sub-culture and it's true, people respect each other, there's no violence. It's sad that the common person doesn't even begin to understand what it's all about, dismissing goths as 'satan worshippers' and the like (LOL!).There's too much intolerance and ignorance in the world already, people should try to keep an open mind, look at themselves and stop being so judgemental. This is the one life we are given, we should all try to make the best of it, and respect each other. For me it was and it'll always be about the music and friends. Take care of yourselves and each other. Portia

thanks for all the support guys^^ Rita Jacobs

My daughter is a goth has been one since the age of 19, I am in part one , cannot dress up as too old, but I am proud of her individuality. Zyon-Chan

Okay, I'm the only REAL Goth at my high school, we have kindergoths, but you know, I can't stand them. My one friend is starting to turn goth, despite her mothers disaproval, oh, and my mom hates it too, but dude! You don't have it bad until your the only goth around! I've been goth since I was NINE I'm sixteen. Oh, mind you, my mom was a cheerleader... in CALIFORNIA! My dad was a metal-head, so he dosen't really care, but my mom hates my cloths, like today, she made me wear ALL white and, (shudders) I smuggeled my chain and saftey pin covered spiked dog collar out of the house, put on fishnet gloves and slowly die of bordem. Also, she hates metal music, and punk, oh and techno. she flipped a lid when she heard Hawthorne Heights, (I'm FAR too afraid to show her Cannibel Corpse) She want's me to wear pink miniskirts and Hollister! the only Hollister shirt i have i Goth-ified. I ripped off the sleeves, put cat-scratches through it, a victorian lace collar, huge stitches, took a sharpie, and since Hollister was written in cursive, i made it say Hellister. Mawhaha. And Dude, i agree with you all. Everyone hates me, but the funny thing is, people in the church I go to, love me. Especially kids, I'll be wearing 40 lbs of chains and theyll out right tackel me, that makes me fall over. But my mom dosen't get me at all. So, I hibernate in my room. River

I wouldn't call myself goth, since people use it as more of a weapon, and who needs a label. I do listen to music of the 'goth' genre as it were, most of which overlaps with indie I listen to, my favourite band's probably bauhaus. I do dress darkly, but, skulls, chains, blazers, aren't goth, they're the alt kiddy trend, always sold, under the 'it' label of the time. I shop in all shops, and tend to end up in long black skirts, blouses and corsets, like some victorian mourner. My issue is not with mainstreamers harassing me, as most mainstreamers are too busy harassing me about my longterm girlfriend, but with the faddy mansonites who will call me the poser. chance gomez , sandy utah, united states

i really enjoy being gothic. when i first stared over two years ago, it felt great. i just love how people call me a freak. it feels good being the only goth guy at my school. Vampire Freak

ppl @ skool make fun uv me and i tel dem to leav me alone and mi fam duz da same an it ticks me off but i dnt no wat 2 do 2 make dem stop Kieran

wait till the rave/cyber image kicks off! Alison Holme

I used to be a goth at my old school, but one student started bullying me and used to say "Its not halloween yet." Kayleah Weeks

I am almost 21 years old and have been Goth since I was 17. There is a LOT of criticism surrounding the Gothic subculture. I can't go to the supermarket without having people literally stare down their noses at me or even stop and turn right around to glare at me. Parents will even pull their childern out of my path as if protecting them from some evil force. Even online I'm not safe from the judgment. I get letters saying things like "You're likely to only attract folks who are dangerous and down and out" and "There is no question about it, in my 19 years of existence, you are the darkest woman I have seen, and (all) I can do is ask why?? Why live a life of darkness?". I have to admit these comments and glares make me uncomfortable, but not nearly uncomfortable enough to be something I'm not. I'm Goth because I like it, not because it pleases anyone else. Obsydian

Grow up, and stop hating your parents, they aren't THAT bad. normann and sarah

We both live in shipston too and the community in general can be quite judgemental towards people who act away or look different to what the general public deem as normal. CAN SOMEONE DEFINE NORMAL? We believe you should be yourself and not let anyone tell you otherwise. It is something which we tend to adhere to as I (normann), have done for years and my partner (sarah), is still finding quite hard to do. This too, is because of the pressures from her friends/family who find it hard to accept who she wants to be or how she would like to dress. Goth or otherwise, people should be proud of who they are and accept others for what they are, regardless of religion, colour, what music they listen to, the clothes they wear, etc... HAVE I MADE MY POINT???? garon>udlock-jubei'thos lol

im not goth, but i share some of the same problems of disapproving glances, etc. i have certain dress standards; i understand the dynamics of color, shape, texture.. i have a discerning eye for fashion & know what is flattering to my form, but clothing manufacturers nearly always fall short of my expectations, so i often end up shopping at goodwill stores & putting together/ layering 5 pieces of clothing to make one outfit. (i actually enjoy the challenge of this, & feel the outcome is often better than if it were one article of clothing suitably tailored (i tie it all together using monochromatics}. i am growing out a short haircut also, so i wear bandannas-couple that with my need for a sunbrella-the australian sun scorches my fair skin, so i have to be true to myself even if no one else does it. i know there are lots of ppl who need to protect themselves, but arent cuz its not 'cool'. i like the femininity of dresses/ skirts, so.. my husband taunts me & calls me mary poppins > Andrew

I know how they feel.... Because I am the same way and It feels as if noone can ever accept us All those Goths are wannabe's

Go to Bluewater sometime Jane

Just be yourselves people!If others are so shallow as to yell abuse at us then just rise above it.Yes, its embarrasing, especially if you're being yelled at in a public place but why let it upset you?Society is an awful place where we're being told what to look like, what to listen to, what to laugh at etc and the same persecution applies to gay's, overweight people, disabled people, and so on. It applies to anyone that doesn't fit in with what society wants.Everyone has the right to live out they're lives in peace and the way they want to but the world is a shallow place! Jester

For me, being Goth, is seeing beauty, and its coming destruction, at the same time. It's finding the art where art seems to be lacking; to find the light in everything and embracing it for all its worth.It's the last dance as the walls around you are crumbling.It's not all about dressing in black and listening to certain bands. It's about finding yourself and who you are, no matter what other people think of you.I don't really care if people tell me it's not halloween, pull their kids away from me, stare at me, cross the street to avoid me. I found myself among these people, this culture is where my heart stays, I couldn't leave it behind fully. I could try to blend in but I wouldn't be comfortable.Portia is not what I'd call Goth. She sounds more Emo than anything if I'm honest. Anthony

I love being goth but my parents don't except me.I don't want to hurt them but so its like I want to give up goth,I'm obessed with goth and I don't want to change.Peole call me a poser but I don't listen to them.This is the way I am,I'm a very sad and quiet guy nobody knows the pain I go threw.I hardly afford to get some black close. Emy

This girl is pretty much a shame to the goth community. The fact she claimed she "tried" to be punk and that "people look at her.." simply indicates she's a teenager who can't find herself a personnality and wants to appear "rebel" tough obviously ,she can't handle it. I am rather upset she gets that much press coverage for the lame case of teenage indentity search that she is. Spiggy

First of all, I think that this girl is nothing but a mansonite, she doesn't seem to be aware of the fact that wearing chains and T-shirts with skulls won't make you goth. Goth isn't about clothes and looking sullen, it's much more, goth is a state of mind. Being brave enough to talk about death, loneliness and other themes that make people scared, being strong enough to stand out and smile at all the pointless insults, being what one really is... that's goth. You don't need skull prints all over your clothes to show the world how much you disagree and how unique you are and let's face it, if you bought your hardcore skull-printed T-shirt in H&M (or Hot Topic, it doesn't matter) it's probably not very unique, is it? I can't continue without saying some more things about Hot Topic. A chain store with clothes for rebels??? I say, that's not very non-conformist... In my opinion Hot Topic is a store for people who don't want to look like conformists but are not strong enough to be themselves. So they start buying T-shirts with silly prints (stuff like »death« in huge red letters with skulls all around) because »ZOMG, this is lyk, sooooo hardcore!!!11!!1« and think they've hit the jackpot.What I love about being goth is the freedom (and creativity). There are so many ways of expressing oneself! I didn't really know where my »style« (that's what people like to call it) was going when I started listening to goth bands, reading Poe and Baudelaire etc. I just wanted to be myself and I think I've achieved that. I feel wonderful, the community's great and the way of thinking suits me perfectly. Of course people stare at me, call me a witch, satanist and dead body but instead of bringing me down they achieved quite the opposite. Being so different has made me more confident and I know myself much better now. So... don't mention »skulls« and »goth« in together! Think poetry, education, beauty, night, mysteries, Victorians, goth rock, inner strength, individuality.... Now that's more like it. Danelle Dragonetti

I was goth before there was a name for it. I grew up mimmicing Alice Cooper then David Bowie then I figured out my own style and it's ALWAYS been black hair black clothes and some kind of make-up. (Talk about standing out..) Now after the x-change (17 years ago) I love being female Goth more than anything.. (Talk about standing out..) I hold a job with a International Communications Company and in my free time hang at the Goth Clubs here in Denver and write very dark piano music..(Next release will be my 8th CD). Personally I revel in the person who stands up and out. Woe unto them that conform. Obeident women never make history.. Sooo.. Act up and Acto out.. Get noticed.. Make a difference.. Not many others are! dana

I used to be goth.. i grew out of wanting to look dead, and am now back to being blond and trendy. I never had too much hostility (altho it's perhaps different here in the U.S.) i live close to NYC and we see far stranger things around here. I still love the music, and once in a while i still put in the old piercings and head out to a club.. but it's all just a bit of fun on the weekend. one thing i will say is that while i might have had a few odd glances at the way i used to dress, goth's are much more picky about dress codes. when i was goth, all my friends were.. and there's different types of goth, etc etc. it's all a bit juvenile.. you like what you like. laurens simpson, friends call me little red

i dress goth cuz i feel more like me and happy to be difrent i do get kicked around alot but i stand up for my self and never give up i dont dress goth just for a fashon state ment im 15 i just like to be me to just feel like me almost all the time i get called a blood sucking vamire freek all i do is carry on walking and try to keep out of truble i hate people who think they can hurt people difrent from them Nyra

Okay so maybe i wear black, hang out with goth type kids, but where i went to school last year i get treated so badly that I left that skool....One kid was so mean that he spread a rumor aroundsaying that i couldn't be trusted because i was a "witch"... It almost ruined me, but then i got the guts one day and wore my bff's clothes(holester) and stayed down the hallway of the kid who made fun of me and said to him(and all my friends were proud of me for this) "watch out, i might put a hex on you." and walked away... haven't talked to him since that daymy friends will always remember that faithful day! planets

Goth, according to the media, is about manson, wearing black and being all dark and moody. That's not what it's about, It's a lifestyle and a way of thinking. It's a choice an indivigual makes to live the gothic lifestyle. Goth isn't about being scary and haunted all the time, it's seeing art and beuty in death as well as life. Goth's are a creative bunch, who think about things before making assumptions and critisizing. They don't accept things because they are told to, they question, discuss and think about things. Goth music includes switchblade symphony, the suixue and the banshees, joy division, the bauhuas ect. I like the death rock fasion, I dress the way I want to. Nobody I know dresses like me, and I like it that way. I enjoy art, writing and music and though my artwork is described as scary or distubing I see it as beutyfull. Crstal

most peole i hang out with r incredible bubly and happy-go-lucky, and when im with them i don't great treated weirdly...usally!my friends shop at Ambrcrumbie & Fitch and i went in there once and they scooted me out and told me the direction to hot topic....yeah i like hot topic but wow, that was extermly rude!!!! callmecreepy

Most people don't know anything about goth but still feel that they can go up to someone and look at their clothes and if they arn't dressed in nikes and a hoodie they are goth. Goth is about bands like the suixe and the banshees, the bahauas, cruxshadows etc. NOT about manson and the knot, though i still like them. Goth is seeing beuty in everything including morbid things like death which are often seen as horrible things to talk about. Goth to me is a community where taboos are discussed and indiviguality is celebrated rather than hidden and shunned. I dress in black, but because i LOVE black not because i'm trying to look dark and scary lol. I have piercings because i find them attractive and i like the music. Don't call yourself a goth if you don't knw anything about the subculture, you'll just look like a posuer. James

This chick is a poser. Goth is not music it is not a fashion statement it is a way of life. We dont drink blood, we dont cut ourselves, we are people who look on the bright side of the dark world. Vittoria Minyaliel

I have always been different. I don't see myself as a pure goth, per se, more of a death rocker (which is more like the original goths were in the days when it'd just separated itself from punk), and I get a lot of hassle because of the way I look. Up here in Norway you don't often see girls wearing death hawks (or any kind of myhawk, to be honest). I love Bauhaus, Siouxsie and the Banshees, David Bowie and all those old goth/ postpunk bands from that time. I was born a few decades too late... I can't help but being who I am. That's the reason I dress like this; I've just always wanted to. Now that I can finally decide for myself what clothes to buy (or make), what music I want to listen to and which movies and books I want to get, I finally have the freedom I've longed for since childhood. Goth, to me, is a lifestyle. It is acknowledging that it's okay to read Poe, Wilde and other darkly themed literature that most people wouldn't touch with a ten feet pole. I've got a much broader perspective on things than most people, and this I thank my venture into the gothic subculture for. This also makes it easier to handle any difficult situations arising because I can intelligently out- argue any person who even tries getting on my nerves. Anyway, most people don't seem to know what goth really is. This is a major annoyance for us who do, and love goth with all our hearts. If goth is what is portrayed by the media (and most teenagers) these days, I really don't want to be a part of it because it is not the goth I came to know and love so much. By the way, that picture of this Russell guy is absolutely hilarious. No goth I know would dress like that. Goth is about a _tasteful_, elegant, but dark, sense of aesthetics. It's art nouveau for today; the tortured artist impersonated; an embodiment of the fascination of every single facet of life, including Death. I wish people would at least try to truly understand instead of spitting at us and spreading vile rumours. Alissa

I think the girl you guys were talking about is not goth, she sounds like nothing but a stupid mansonite. She needs to grow up and learn what goth is really about. It's not about hanging chains around your neck! ravan prince

i am not a goth though i get called one every day. I listen to gothrock and dress in black and i do have piercings. I'm glad i hav'nt turned out the way some of my friends have, narrow-minded conforming trend followers. My first experience of goth was queing up behing a woman in black with piercings in sainsburies. From then i wanted to be like that, brave, strong and happy. As a kid i was like "linkin park rule!" As i got older i started listening to old gothrock and more metal. I'm happy with what i wear and listen to and the music is great. My friend don't understand it and think of it as emo or punk. They call me a punkrocker and don't understand in the least that manson is not goth. I don't get worried when people stare at me walking down the street, infact i enjoy the whispering and pointing. I try not to lable myself because then i'm stuck with it and i feel as i have to live up to the goth do's and dont's. I', just me and i'm happy like that. Midnight

People just judge me and my Fiancé by the way we dress some poeple call us saitenists which isnt true coz were not. People judge us for what we look like not for who we are! Zrcalo

hello, my name is "zrcalo" I am 18, and I am in a "goth/industrial" band called ZNS. we most definitely have hostilities towards the type of music, mainly people find it too bizzare and/or creepy. I find there are many people who misunderstand this genre entirely. this is not about feeling sorry for yourself or being mopey because chav's beat you up. gothrock is all about release of this pain and conquering it. most gothrock songs are rather sad in the beginning, gaining more rythmn and beat as the song progresses. (example would be bauhaus' "the three shadows") Gothrock is a center for almost everything I do. I find that people who truely understand what these bands have a deep passion and are usually intelligent, since many of the lyrics are rather hard to comprehend. though, one need not be smart to love gothrock. I see that this genre is almost dying out, hence why people are trying so desperately to either revive it or find people who are like them. I'll say that gothrock is the ultimate conservative rebellion. different from punks, metalheads, techno lovers, pop and rap. these are people who are not afraid to wear all black or all bright pink (or shave their head like andrew eldrich). most of these type almost reflect the anti-social, but not as extreme. I would not like to call myself entirely "goth" because I have a deep passion for industial music and throbbing gristle. honestly, if you do not listen to gothrock, (bauhaus, siouxsie and the banshees, sisters of mercy, sex gang children, etc.) and if one does not actively participate in the subculture, one should not use the term "goth" especially if you run around blaring manson or metal and wear all black. most "goths" usually do not care, and rarely lash out at people for things, much like chav's or metalheads. these are usually humble people. thankyou. ... -Z Andrew Dickinson

Hello, iam Andy and iam a 17 year male old goth from lancashire well got to say iv been a goth for the past year, and the differeance that people treat u like is astonding, some people will treat u with abit of respect, others seem scared and others just laugh at you and think your a joke, and others will just shout verbal abuse at you its just a shame they dont realise how much happier iam now rather than a year ago, because b4 i was a goth i weighed about 13stone and was quite ugly to be honest, but since then iv lost two stone in weight and hav so far grone my hair to my shoulders at the back and my fringe touches my chin id say it is deffinately worth it because now i feel alot more confident in myself that i have my own image and people actualy are wary of me rather than pushing me around and bullying me all the time like in my old high school jess

its so stupid how you are judged by what you wear my family forced me to buy clothes that had color and stop wearing so much black. they dont realize that it is who i am and by taking that away it is making me more miserable by not letting me wear what i want Bethany,Jarvis Brook

I turned Goth wen i woz eleven a few months after my mum died and i slowly got into the scene and i have a dark few on life(understandable after i got depressed for a while) I get a few wierd looks every now and then but frankly i don,t give a damn. People have accepted me for who i am at school and to them i am very grateful and i love my family and friends to pieces! Bree, 20, Eureka, CA

I feel comfortable being around those that accept me for who and what I am. I have never fit into the "Prep" soceity and it just came to be that all my friends were Goth or Punk and very in touch with themselves and their emotions. I am not too fond of "Emo" stuff because they are trying to say it is the NEW Goth. I don't agree. Goth is Goth, and I love the colors Black and Red...not just Black. Romantic

Blacks a traditional opposite for Goths as it was orignally a statement against Bright disco gear. And now has stuck like many trends e.g. Blue jeans. However i know very few (actual) Goths who wear black especially in order to be "different" from others. However many people have go that idea, alot with the myth that all goths must wear black. Though i've known younger goths to refer to the colour (or lack of it :P) as if it were a label. But many just see it as a thing Goths do without knowing WHY Goths did it. jim

people are free to wear to appear as they wish and others equally free to percieve in the way they will, the only problem i have with it is thinking you are somehow different and seperate from anyone else whos not conforming to wear black... stevey 15

i dress how i wanna and no one tells me im different likke 1 day ill wear a pair of dungerees then the nxt it will b converse and a band tee you shoul waer wat ur comfortable in !! chelsea,14

Im just me Im more into rock/emo/metal but I do listen 2 dance...i wear ma jeanz n adioz n jus generaly dress hw i wna...i usualy gt classed as goth or emo or skater but im just me Romantic (i'll try and make this that last post)

I also found myself falling into goth because it's where and how i feel comfortable. i feel like i'm being me. Teresa

I'm a Goth. I've been the object of abuse and bullying since early childhood, and the way I dressed had absolutely nothing to do with it, it was simply because I was different (birth defect). I never once felt I belonged anywhere until I eventually stumbled upon Goth. I'm not a Goth in order to be different, I'm a Goth because I am different. I dress the way I do because it suits my personality. As cliche or pretentious as it may sound to some, I do genuinely have a dark outlook on life (but that's understandable after decades of abuse). I'm much more comfortable and happy these days expressing myself honestly than ever I was when I was trying to live in a manner acceptable to society. Rebecca Ingall

i am a goth and life has been loads harder since becoming one. un fortainaly people copy us and look rubbish Hannah

I used to be totally normal and had nothing different about me, then one day i woke up looked in the mirror and totally hated the way i looked. In 6 months ive gone from completely normal to what i am now. i have bright red short spikey hair nd dark black make up, i wear what i want to when i want to and don't let people get me down. All goths i know are so lovely even if they look creepy. I love seeing my reflection now because i stand out. I have never regretted changing the way i look and i never want to go back to looking normal. Romantic (again)

Goth's are generally people that feel rejected by society. If you choose an underground subculture that is rejected by society then you probably will get negative responds. You've kind of got to put up with it. Sure it would be great if this wasn't a prejustice world but realisticly it is and i can't picture it changing. If you go out wearing skulls, changes or just have a dramatic appearance your'll attract attention same as if a pantomine horse went doen the road (not suggesting a link that's just an example)It's common sense and human nature. If the abuse is extreme you can report it to the teacher or the police. But otherwise i suggest you ignore abuse or insults or subtle down your image. amy-louise

hay, im an alternative aswell, i live in coventry, but here there is about 40+ of us. but i totally agree with you. im 14 also, and i get looked down on at school, and aroud town and everyone blames stuff on you cause your differnt, and it sucks, i hope you find someone else thats a goth where you live and i gree thast we are all discriminated, and i definatly understand about the safest place is your home, you should try and join a club where other goths hang out. Tori

Melanie's right, the safest, least violent place to be is a goth club, and around goths, I have never felt intimidated, treatened or in any other way negatively affected by being around goths, it is the general other non-goth population that I experience any negative reactions to myself. I will frankly say that there should be more goths in the world, then by the power of the bat the world will become a better and more accepting place. Gay? Different religion? Another way not compatible with mainstream society? We won't care, so long as you keep the sunlight way and the Bauhaus music playing. Smitten Kitten

Just be happy with who you are, however you dress. Ive been a goth all my life, my mum was a goth back when it started in 79. All I know is that you can't live by others limitations, you can only be, who you want to be. Its not about what religion you are, God or Buddah isn't going to stop or start loving you because you dress a certain way, and neither is Satan (if there is one!). People need to be educated, thats why we must continue to be different, so they get used to us, and accept us...lol, it may take a couple of hundred years tho...it has for every other minority! Emma (Romantic)

I'm a Goth and have been for about 4 years now. I get alot of hassle but it's something you have to expect if your choosing to dress in such a dramatic way. I'm pretty much the only goth down here so i get alot of attention. I fairly used to it now. Being a Goth is just a small part of me. I'm still me even if i were in another subculture. I think alot of hatred towards goths is because of the stereotypes e.g. Drinking blood, violence, etc. Most people today just find it easier to laugh at something then find out about it. It's the cowards way out! Scarlettttt

The girl doesn't even know what goth is anyway,she's wearing a my chemical romance t-shirt! Clara, 13

I think goths are just normal people with their own life style and that people should just leave them alone! How would u feel if they talked about your way of life? AND STOP LABELING! IT JUST LABELS U! By the way *The Used* Rocks! Eric

I am 31, an art student and was into the gothic movement when I was 16 or 17 years old up until the time I was 21 or 22. To this day, I loathe and hate pathetically egocentric gimmicks and trends that some kids take entirely TOO seriously. I was one of these, and both of my arms have well over 100 scars on each because my girlfriend spent more time with her gothic 'christian' band (an insanely annoying and pitifully paradoxical trend in some parts of the USA where I live) than with me and in order to be around her, I had to be around people who fit into this pathetic cliche. After filling my mind and heart with this vile poison of industrial/punk/dark wave ambient sewage, it affected me mentally, emotionally, and spiritually to the point where I was indeed an atheist, and absolutely idolized despair and every possible devil that was mentioned in the Greek Pandora's box myth. I did in fact attempt suicide in front of my girlfriend because I was so full of self-hatred that it almost ended my stay here in this life. I almost cry to think about this now. My girlfriend is the same now, is 35 and is still convinced that gothic make-your-own-church-up versions of christianity will help kids whose parents are 'too narrow-minded.' Her and I basically have somewhat of a love/hate relationship because of this and we argue about it constantly. I hate and always will hate the trend, not the poor souls who willfully choose to make themselves outcasts and all the while revel in the hypocrisy of claiming that the world made them like this. If there is (and I know there is now as I am still alive to type this) a God in Heaven, please dear God, through the prayers of Your people, may this disgusting trend die and go the way that everything manmade in this world goes, like a balsawood house built in the midst of a ferocious storm, wasn't it Bowie that wrote the song 'Changes?' God, we need some. As for discrimination, that is the stupidity of it all that people are so quick to defend something that has destroyed the lives of many young people. As Americans say, been there done that. People who can't grow out of this trend and then so aggressively rail on about discrimination should pay attention to more SERIOUS forms of discrimination. People can change a stupid trend or gimmick. Ethnicity? Now that is something people can't change. Rock against racism? Hmmm...that's not so bad. I just wish people would use music to build rather than destroy. Funny how I can't tolerate now what I reveled in then. Zahir Parkar

After viewing that video, i must say that it's a real shame for Portia that she can't go out and have a good time because of all the discrimination but i praise her to the fullest for being the way she is and fighting against this unfortunate cause. Although i am not a strong muslim i get stereotyped especially from my parents and it ticks me off because people dont seem to have the decency to ask us about our lifestyle - i get most of the ill treatment by chavs on buses - It ISNT about depression or satanism - to me i found it has suited me as i am 'different' in person and being a Goth allows me to look alternative and being imaginative with how i look and feel. I support anyone within the Gothic community. We are creating out own utopia where we can be expressive and different although that seems to threaten society. I won't change for the world and i love my stylestyle - i HAVE my limits and i havnt done anyone harm - 'nuff said' Punishable-by-nature

"Express Yourself and be persecuted physically, conform and be persecuted emotionally, live and be persecuted spiritually"...nothing works in today's society which claims to be open-minded but everyone is still tabooed in a sense aren't they? Jill

Goth is such a misunderstood sun-culture becuase of a "goth" murder that took place in america a few years back. From then on it has been linked with the devil which in most cases is untrue. I myself I'm called goth by my peers. I do get the odd dirty look and have got spat on before but i got off lightly. Ah friend of mine got beat up just going down to the shop. Now days goth music is linked with Marilyn Manson. He is not goth. He is slightly industrial. People who try to be goth are putting a bad image up of the suc-culture. Let yourself find whatever your most comfortable doing. And I prey that the likes of true punk an goth can come back some day also. In that new report why were My chemical Romance - I'm not ok playing? They are also not goth -x-(Desire)-x-

Judge others as they judge you, so if someone is nasty be back, but if you dont know them show them respect, for example I would not class myself as Goth, but do know that they are some of the nicest peopel around, a complete opposite to chavs, so yeah dont judge others.... black knight

i think it is a good thing being a goth coz it shows that you are your own person and not just a conformist following everybody else Grrr...

What goth is: blood-dance.net/goth/grant.html Read Im sure people misconceptions will be greatly challenged. _-=ozzy=-_

I am slowly changing to the goth scene as I have huge respect for them and the music is great, i fing that they are really nice people nayarit_ray_skate

i use to be a goth but now i'm a skater but i never and i never will diss on a fellow goth ...some can harm you in diffrent ways... -ray x!x j a k x!x

ive been an alternate since i was 11. i get a lot of c***taken out of me for it. what is peoples problems, its really all about the music, why do people care what you dress like, its you life. it frustrates me to see someone act so *big* when slagging me or my m8s off, and really they should look at themselves and their character!!!! and i agree jus_me_princess_j Dancing Corps

I have bean a goth sience I was ten years old. I have bean caled a poser ,and a satonist a lot but that hasent stoped me and it wont jus_me_princess_j

i dnt like the way everybody nowadays is labelled every one is a part of a group n they cant mix with anyone else from a different group n we r grouped becaus of our clothes or music styles but at the end of the ay we are all just humans jodee-woo

i gotta say i ent a goth atall n b4 last weekend i was quite intimidated by them not because they wore black or the music or woteva but.. probly just because i didnt no alot about them n i was in town n got speakin to a group of goths n was surprised to find they were reli nie n friendly n chatty n they were alot like me n my mates only they wore difrent clothes n liked difrent music since then my opinions have changed n i dont judge anyone before i meet them society rejection

i feel sorry for goths who get abuse but it is predicatable if u dress differently society will lk at u just ignore them, Conrad Darkness (the third)

On this page there are goths called Fuchsia, Portia and Betsy - you don't seem to get many goths called Sharon. I don't wish to jump to comclusions, but could becoming a 'goth' be a form of middle class rebellion against your parents??? Fuchsia

But being a Goth isn't about an 'individual' - there's NOTHING individual about dressing Goth, listening to Goth music or any other Goth-related behaviour - because there's a million OTHER Goths all doing the same as you! Saying it's INDIVIDUAL is just another exhausted cliche - people can't bear to think of themselves as one of the herd, but really, if you are a Goth, you are still a sheep, you've merely chosen your own little black fleecy pack of sheep instead of the regular white ones. I've been a Goth for 3 years, and it mgiht be a lot of thrilling, dramatic, beautiful, sexy things, but one thing it certainly AIN'T is unique! betsy kemp

i agree with everything, ppl r just afraid of something different, or maybe there different themselfs they just dont wanna show it because they want to be loved, liked, worshiped, its a normal human emotion, but i dont want to be loved and liked for something iam not, so i became goth... i get so much crap about how iam a freak and that iam ugly 4 dressing in black...... goths arnt freaks, i find there more friendly then normal ppl, they talk about great things....... i more became 1 because of my interest in heavy metal, my artistic work in art and poetry. Blackbird

where i live i'm discriminated against a lot, because i have chosen to be gothic. come on. i just do it because of music influence and because i'm interested in it. why be nasty to someone who dresses diferent? to me i also feel people use the term goth as being kind of racist. like everyone drinks blood and worships satan which is total crap. so all i can say is stand up for who you are and what your choices are. it's your life, live it the way you want. Aaron

Methinks that it is possible for any members of a group to intimidate individuals of another. When goths walk the streets alone they stand out compared to those dressed differently. I'd say a goth would attract no more attention than a sikh in full gear with the ceremonial blade, or a cyclist on display in his full lycra gear. Point is individuals stand out because they are individuals. Had a point at the start of this....will attempt to regain it. Ah! Got it! Normality is only what everyone else is that you aren't. Therefore, ascribing to that philosophy everyone is an individual, everyone is different, and therefore everyone is in the same boat, just in different coloured clothes. Miranda Essel

I myself, do not like to use the term "goth". I more prefer calling myself an individualist. Just as Portia Cranmer said, you sort of grow in to it. It isn't really a conciouse choice. It just happens one day. You listen to some music that you like-usually it's rock music seeing as you don't usually see a "goth" walking around listening to hip hop. For me it also went with how I felt. I'm a rather gloomy depressed person, and so the black worked for me. I wanted to show how I felt, along with being what I thought and still think is VERY fashionable. So, I started wearing the type of clothes Russell Joslin described. Sure, if I'm out somewhere I get "the look" thats so commonly being described, but the best thing to do is ignore it. To people who dress the way I do, they are the wierd ones. John B

Oi Goths - cheer up! Ax

Tbh the Goth scene is what you make it. Yes you get the 'looks' and the shouts of 'Oi Goff!' from the people who want to look big in front of their friends, to which my usual action is to ignore it and walk on. They're only making themselves look bad. Face it you're gonna get the looks and stares if you dress differently wherever you go to varying degrees so basically you deal with it. I'm very much immersed in the scene, I DJ a few clubs, I go out to them and support them. As Mel, and I think I know the her, said in the article you won't find trouble within the scene and you'll generally find we're a friendly bunch. So for people out there who think Goths are 'freaks' or whatever you care to call us, get to know people within the scene you'll find your views changed quite considerably. P M

To be honest I don't see the big deal. If you want to dress a certain way then that's up to you. For the past 6/7 years I have been called evey name under the sun for enjoying the alternative lifestyle, but it does not and will not stop me from being me. I wear Goth/alterante clothing because I like them even if it means saving for months for an item or having to make it my self. I love shoes like many other women, they are just different style thats all I live big chunky shoes mainly with 5inch heels, but that's who I am. I don't dress or brag about being "Goth" to make a point, I live like this because I love it. I do like the attention I get but only when I'm at Whitby because then I know the attention I get there is more likely to be genuine as there are more like minded people there. Whereas the attention I get at home is usually unwanted attention such as stones been thrown etc. *Rant Over now* Deborah Wieland

I am a "goth" if I must be labelled by my clothes, music, I am nearly 46 years old and quite frankly my dear I don't give a damn. I go to Whitby Goth Weekend every 6 months and have a great time. Must admit I have not had any real problems with the way I dress and look although that maybe because I don't really notice the way other people look at me. Although once in a pub I left the table to go to the loo and my husband over heard two women talking about me they weren't very complimentry. Phillipe Bergeroo

Since when has being a Goth been about standing around on street corners, sulking, smoking and chav baiting. How many of these so called Goths are familiar with the back catalogues of Bauhaus or the Sisters Of Mercy I wonder...? Steve Clarke

There seems to be this ongoing thing where you choose to be either a 'goth', 'chav', 'emo' or 'trendy' and why does it matter, most of these people dont stand out in a crowd because they look like everybody else, people who want to dress alternative these days seem to just wear whats been marketed for them, its not so much freedom of expression but more like dress like this so you can impress your mates. but dont get me wrong i fully condone anyone who wants to dress how they want but just dont call yourself alternative if your gonna wear the same as everyone else who hangs out round godiva statue. Amanda

Well people will look if you dress differently. But surely deep down, you love to be noticed, I do. sw

i would not class my slef as a goth but in saying that i do have many pieces of clothing that could be. i hate it when people judge you on what you wear. lucky i go to a school where most people do not judge you on what you look like and we all stick together. everyone has there own style which is great we would not all want to look the same would we? Warwick Brown

In this age of social acceptance, why shouldn't people be allowed to dress in the goth style, after all, our country is innundated with minority groups whom wish to live their lives in their own way without ridicule or harrassment. I applaude anyone who has the courage and conviction to express themselves in the face of the normal/grey/boring masses. claire ryan

me been a goth is very hard people keep looking saying things like witch and freak .relly not nice Lauren Waters

What can I say? In the end, people dress like that for a reason. I am young and also dress gothic and too tell you the truth I enjoy the looks. In the end if you dress like this you are deliberately trying to draw attention to yourself and if it is negative attention you should have to deal with it. I have. Lauren Waters

What can I say? In the end, people dress like that for a reason. I am young and also dress gothic and too tell you the truth I enjoy the looks. In the end if you dress like this you are deliberately trying to draw attention to yourself and if it is negative attention you should have to deal with it. I have. Sean Fisher

I have nothing against people who want to be goths. But you can't really complain about people looking at you differently when you walk down the street, after all, goths know that comes as part of the image. Thats the whole reason why they dress differently just so that they can stand out. I myself think that i dress 'normally' and i dont get noticed (well only by the girls) i know if i was to dress in black people would look at me. Jamie Ryan

The reason that 'Goths' are watched is that they make a point of being 'different'. Dont get me wrong, I'm all for people being who they want to be, but dressing in a certain way, is in no way the same as 'being yourself. I find its actually quite the opposite. I dont see the need to dress a certain way, and to make a big point in public, and then complain when people DO take notice. I listen a huge range of music, from Metal to Classical, yet I dont feel the need to make a point of it. I dont want to sound like I'm de-grading the article, or indeed the subjects values. I just feel that if someone wants to make a bold statement, then they should be prepared for people to take notice, and respond accordingly. SEE ALSO

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