“I do think that it’s our responsibility to put more guardrails around the president,” he said. “That’s part of what drove this speech.”

Our conversation has been edited for length and clarity.

McKay Coppins: What made you want to give this speech?

Jeff Flake: I said right after I gave my retirement speech that I would go to the floor and do a number of speeches. And not necessarily on, like, free trade or immigration policy, but more on—for lack of a better term—character. And this was obviously the first. I mean, the truth has been under assault for quite a while. It just bothered me that we are conditioning ourselves to it. It’s less of an outrage every time there’s a falsehood coming out of the White House.

Coppins: The speech was advertised as being about press freedom, but it was actually much broader than that.

Flake: Well, it’s not just an attack on journalism—it’s on empirical, evidence-based truth.

Coppins: As a Mormon, my ears perked up at the end when you quoted that somewhat obscure Mormon hymn. I feel like we don’t sing that one much in church. Does it have some kind of special meaning to you?

Flake: Well, my wife is a musician, and when I was writing this, I said to her, “What’s a hymn that talks about truth?” She immediately responded, “Oh Say, What Is Truth?” So I looked at the words, and you know, I could’ve used any verse. The prior verses talk about despotism and tyranny.

Coppins: Every time you give one of these speeches, there’s a chorus of liberal critics who say, “Well, what are you going to do about it?” How do you respond to that?

Flake: One, don’t forget that I’m a conservative. There are two big things that they point to that I voted for that they would’ve wanted me to vote against: Health care and tax reform. I voted 30-some times to repeal and replace Obamacare—why should I switch just because the president shares our view? And then on tax cuts, I mean, look at my book. I’ve been all about that for a long time.

I oppose the president’s conduct and behavior certainly. But on policy, there’s a lot I disagree with too. I’ve given dozens of speeches on NAFTA that nobody remembers. On the Muslim ban, we’re doing an Iran resolution to express solidarity with the Iranian people right now. Which is good—I think that’s what we should do. But my position is, if we’re going to do that, then let’s go further and actually tell the Iranian people that we don’t mistrust them, that they’re not part of the regime, and let’s let them travel again. I’ve said I won’t vote for that resolution unless it contains that item. So they’ve held it. With a couple of the president’s nominees—Sam Clovis, who’s a big birther—quietly, we’ve said we won’t support him coming to the floor, so he doesn’t get to the floor. Or a couple of the judicial nominees that are less than qualified—quietly, I’ve said, “Don’t bring them forward.”