ZaedynFel wrote: Viable Manatee wrote: The issue with the magnum at this point is that it is over-powered with respect to the rest of the sandbox, so there would be no need to pick up anything on the map, which I guess I don't see as a good thing.



The BR does have more spread now than it did before the tuning, but keep in mind that it still has some of the lowest spread of any BR in the history of Halo. All previous Halo's have had a spread on the BR bullets, and H5's was just a historical low until the tuning. This made it a great pickup weapon, but over-powered as a primary. The new tuning brings it in line with what a primary weapon should be able to do, and brings its range in line with previous Halos.



Having a spread, or cone of fire is common in just about every competitive FPS including past Halos, so I guess I feel it doesn't ruin the competitiveness. Do you feel it ruined previous Halos? Would you prefer a form of bloom to balance range?The new BR is less powerful than before, less powerful than the magnum, takes more skill to aim with, which overall balances the sandbox better. You now have a stronger motivation to balance against pickups.



















The BR is provided aim assistance (reticle magnetism & body + head bullet magnetism) to a further distance (RRR) when Aiming-Down-Sight (ADS). The BR and Magnum should share the same hip-fire RRR.

The BR is provided more aim assistance at mid-range.

The BR is a bit more lethal when used with a melee (6 bullets or potentially 2 trigger pulls + melee = kill).

The BR is a better suppression and clean-up weapon. It fires multiple bullets down range in a fairly quick fashion which increases odds of de-scoping an opponent and landing a critical headshot.

The Magnum is a bit more lethal weapon via firing shots because it features a better optimal TTK.

The Magnum is a more accurate and consistent weapon; especially, outside its RRR thanks to negligible or no bullet spread + firing 1 single bullet per trigger pull verses 3.

The Magnum is provided more aim assistance (reticle magnetism & body + head bullet magnetism) within closer range of mid-range.

So the 343i team is aware (per early data?) that the Pistol may have a few too many distinct advantages over the precision weapons that were addressed (BR, Carbine, and DMR), but I hope that the consensus amongst the team isn't one that believes that the Pistol now requires tweaking instead of further adjusting and refining the re-tuned weapons?Is the Halo 5 version of the Halo 2 BR not a replica of that iconic weapon's bullet spread? I ask because I'm under the impression that it is and I'd argue that that weapon has less overall bullet spread than that of the pre-tuned Halo 5 BR even if the Halo 5 BR had pretty much no horizontal bullet spread. Now, I never performed a bullet spread accuracy test within the original Halo 2 game for the BR and can't right now, so I'm left with searching videos online and the only accuracy information I can locate demonstrates past BR effectiveness against opponents from different ranges. These tests indicated that the original Halo 2 BR was very accurate (aka tight bullet spread &/or high bullet magnestism); although, it also featured a max range where bullet damage ended, but within its ranges it was extremely accurate against a stationary target. I'm not aware of anyone taking issue with the Halo 2 BR within this game; in fact, I think a lot of people appreciate its role and fit within the sandbox. The idea should be to ensure that the Halo 5 BR is a more difficult and skillful weapon to use in comparison to the Legendary version, but that they end up fitting a very similar role with fairly similar effectiveness and feel too. The legendary Halo 2 BR should simply have more aim assistance (reticle magnetism & body + head bullet magnetism) in comparison in order to make it easier to use in general, but the Halo 5 BR should be fairly similar on all other accounts.I recall many, MANY people complaining about the bullet spread of the Halo 3 BR over the Halo 2 version when Halo 3 released. I don't know too many people who wish to see the return of Halo 3's BR with its bullet spread -- some may wish it back because it wasn't hitscan (I think there are more pros than cons in having it be hitscan), but I'd be hard pressed to find anyone who wanted it back for its bullet spread. I also recall tons of people completely disguised with the level of "bloom" featured within Halo Reach and it was the early start-up of 343i who addressed that issue within Reach by providing a Title Update that significantly reduced the "bloom" effect and even fully eliminated it for the competitive hoppers (aka Zero Bloom). So, yes I think there are lots of people who felt that too much random variance within a weapon's spread ruined aspects of past Halo titles -- not necessarily saying that's the case here, but I would say that carefully choosing the type and amount of bullet variation is critical toward ensuring the game plays well without detracting from the competitiveness and skill curve. Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing a slight "bloom" effect associated with a weapon like the Carbine, so that players who use the weapon methodically can retain more accuracy than those who choose to use its high rate of fire for suppression purposes. I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing if players end up dealing with some random variation to its bullets when spamming the trigger; in other words, I think the current amount of bullet spread on the re-tuned Carbine is fine if players are granted the weapon's negligible bullet spread (pre-tune) when pacing their shots. I say this because the Carbine is a noticeably higher rate of fire precision weapon that also has one of the lower optimal TTKs and the re-tuned amount of bullet spread is as much as this weapon should ever see (it's already borderline too much for the HCS).Should the balancing trade-offs between the BR and Magnum not be these?