Jim_in_VA (banned)

join:2004-07-11

Cobbs Creek, VA Jim_in_VA (banned) Member so how is going to beat cable when the majority of people get internet from the cable "tubes" They will just up the price for the "tubes"



Karl Bode

News Guy

join:2000-03-02 Karl Bode News Guy Re: so how is going to beat cable Yeah I think caps are the natural progression. Unfortunately for ISPs, consumers like caps about as much as they like the dentist, and the road toward trying to make them mainstream will get very, very ugly. Ask Time Warner Cable circa 2009.

Jim_in_VA (banned)

join:2004-07-11

Cobbs Creek, VA Jim_in_VA (banned) Member Re: so how is going to beat cable that is where Netflix loses the OTT game .. they are totally dependent on the ISPs



Karl Bode

News Guy

join:2000-03-02 Karl Bode News Guy Re: so how is going to beat cable Not sure they lose. Caps are part of the net neutrality conversation, and it's not particularly hard for them to help pour gas on the fire that would be consumer outrage over suddenly facing usage limits.

Jim_in_VA (banned)

join:2004-07-11

Cobbs Creek, VA Jim_in_VA (banned) Member Re: so how is going to beat cable I've not seen Caps a discussion with the FCC ... they are hands off with that as much that I have read



karpodiem

Hail to The Victors

Premium Member

join:2008-05-20

Troy, MI ·WOW Internet and..

·Comcast XFINITY

1 edit karpodiem to Karl Bode

Premium Member to Karl Bode

said by Karl Bode: Yeah I think caps are the natural progression. Unfortunately for ISPs, consumers like caps about as much as they like the dentist, and the road toward trying to make them mainstream will get very, very ugly. Ask Time Warner Cable circa 2009.



With a completely open consumption model (as we presently have, for the most part) and the proliferation of high bandwidth connections, there's going to be a constraint somewhere in the chain - I know this site has hand-waved the bandwidth crunch, but when you start giving people 100mbit+ bi-directional connections, you start stressing the neighborhood node, and eventually the interconnects. You're starting to see this with Verizon Fios.



Anyone know how the .kr,.se,.jp ISP's handle this? They have far fewer users, but they probably have some pretty intense core-network bandwidth. Eventually the internet will look like the cable tv model, unfortunately - if you look at how the normals (non-DSLR users) actually use the internet, you can model most of their use into 10 or 15 content 'channels' (Netflix, Facebook, Apple/Microsoft OS updates, etc) - because people really lose their s*** when faced with the prospect of caps, the ISPs will come back with a 'package' where your non-counted-against-cap consumption falls into 95% of these distribution points. It will take 10-15 years to get to this, and for consumers to understand, but it's coming.With a completely open consumption model (as we presently have, for the most part) and the proliferation of high bandwidth connections, there's going to be a constraint somewhere in the chain - I know this site has hand-waved the bandwidth crunch, but when you start giving people 100mbit+ bi-directional connections, you start stressing the neighborhood node, and eventually the interconnects. You're starting to see this with Verizon Fios.Anyone know how the .kr,.se,.jp ISP's handle this? They have far fewer users, but they probably have some pretty intense core-network bandwidth.



Karl Bode

News Guy

join:2000-03-02 2 recommendations Karl Bode News Guy Re: so how is going to beat cable quote: Eventually the internet will look like the cable tv model Well that's what ISPs would like, but there's an awful lot of public outrage and bad press between here and there, so it's not certain. Well that's what ISPs would like, but there's an awful lot of public outrage and bad press between here and there, so it's not certain.



karpodiem

Hail to The Victors

Premium Member

join:2008-05-20

Troy, MI ·WOW Internet and..

·Comcast XFINITY

karpodiem Premium Member Re: so how is going to beat cable said by Karl Bode: quote: Eventually the internet will look like the cable tv model Well that's what ISPs would like, but there's an awful lot of public outrage and bad press between here and there, so it's not certain. Well that's what ISPs would like, but there's an awful lot of public outrage and bad press between here and there, so it's not certain.



In the end, there is no escape from the ISPs aside from community fiber roll-outs or nationalization. In a future without the TV cash-cow, delivering non-channeled internet service will eventually become per/GB cost of use, like gasoline. They won't do that to themselves, if they have no competition. They will frame the portals as saving consumers money, in comparison to the per/GB of use model. We will see how Title 2 fares in court.In the end, there is no escape from the ISPs aside from community fiber roll-outs or nationalization. In a future without the TV cash-cow, delivering non-channeled internet service will eventually become per/GB cost of use, like gasoline. They won't do that to themselves, if they have no competition. They will frame the portals as saving consumers money, in comparison to the per/GB of use model.

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Kearnstd

Space Elf

Premium Member

join:2002-01-22

Mullica Hill, NJ 1 recommendation Kearnstd to karpodiem

Premium Member to karpodiem

Re: so how is going to beat cable Their ISPs in those countries are also not controlled by shareholders, Lots of government investment back into their countries since they do not have to feed things like a stupidly massive department of defense.



But without having to answer to shareholders they can build advanced networks, Wall Street hates investment in the network when what is already there can be hit with caps and overage fees for truckloads of money for zero effort.



tshirt

Premium Member

join:2004-07-11

Snohomish, WA tshirt Premium Member Is this as accurate as other Netflix recomendations? I wonder how.

As you pointed out there are few to no TV's that actually meet the true 4K spec.

Here goes any chance of '4K' actually meaning anything in the market place, just so Netflix can get name exposure on the boxes.



What's next, The Sony box claims an amazonfire will raise your IQ, while Vizio will improve your love life. TIVO will add a return to reality button early next year.



Karl Bode

News Guy

join:2000-03-02 Karl Bode News Guy Re: Is this as accurate as other Netflix recomendations? certified." Wonder how much you get to pay as a set manufacturer for the honor?



Not that everything Netflix is doing is bad. 4K/UHD is a total spec mess right now, and they're at least trying to herd the grazing sheep into one consistent pasture on stuff like HDR, which is all over the map right now. Yeah the Netflix details of the certification program are pretty ambiguous and laughable. "Turn on pretty quick? Is our logo plastered everywhere? You're." Wonder how much you get to pay as a set manufacturer for the honor?Not that everything Netflix is doing is bad. 4K/UHD is a total spec mess right now, and they're at least trying to herd the grazing sheep into one consistent pasture on stuff like HDR, which is all over the map right now.



Napsterbater

Meh

MVM

join:2002-12-28

Milledgeville, GA Napsterbater MVM Re: Is this as accurate as other Netflix recomendations? So it will mean as much as 4G did for cellular.



"Hey, my HSPDA phone was upgraded and now I have 4G!", "But do you have 4G LTE"...



itzalex

join:2015-02-14

Osage Beach, MO itzalex Member Re: Is this as accurate as other Netflix recomendations? Since 4320p (8K) format is on the horizon wouldn't 2160p (4K) be a stopgap? The other problem will be networks capable of the data. The question on compression comes to mind about 8K since uncompressed it would tax many of the SONET systems as it would require somewhere around 24gbit/s download rates. Compression of 350:1 HVEC codecs still require almost 100mbit/s dl (actual 85mbit/s) rate which creates the problem facing many who cannot get those speeds due to the outright refusal of broadband expansion.



tshirt

Premium Member

join:2004-07-11

Snohomish, WA tshirt Premium Member Re: Is this as accurate as other Netflix recomendations? said by itzalex: Since 4320p (8K) format

for watching a movie via a consumer grade sub-100" screen it is likely meaningless even with one to one reproduction.

Even real 4K is overkill.

You need an 8k "TV" if you are reading whole body x-rays/pet-scans or running a full screen Imax at home.for watching a movie via a consumer grade sub-100" screen it is likely meaningless even with one to one reproduction.Even real 4K is overkill.

existenz

join:2014-02-12 existenz to Karl Bode

Member to Karl Bode

Yes, would bet a poor quality set with unreliable WiFi would get 'certified bonified' if there were a dedicated Netflix button on the remote.



tshirt

Premium Member

join:2004-07-11

Snohomish, WA tshirt to Karl Bode

Premium Member to Karl Bode

But it would be awfully easy for them to over reach and have people lose faith in the NF, once they find out their set is not quite the 4K they thought they were buying.

With the lifespan of LED TV's many of these sets could/should be usable for many, many years.