PG: Last subject: Bryan’s movie made me rethink legacy. It’s not just the achievement; it’s the flavor of it, too. L.B.J.’s legacy is not just civil rights and Vietnam, but also his hunger to be loved and win. President Bush’s legacy is not only 9/11 and the Iraq War, but also his susceptibility to advisers. What’s the flavor of your legacy?

BO: Oh, it’s very hard for me to engage that.

BC: I can.

PG: You think it would be braggy?

BO: No, it’s that there’s me, and then there’s this character named “Barack Obama” who is slightly different on Fox News than he is on MSNBC. I wouldn’t vote for the Barack Obama on Fox News probably.

BC: He’s terrible.

BO: What a loser! No, it’s hard to see yourself in that way. The one area that I do feel confident about is the notion of an inclusive nation, that everybody is part of this story. That’s a running theme I’ve been faithful to throughout my presidency. I’ve given a lot of speeches. One of my favorites is one I gave in Selma, and there’s a riff when I talk about what America is. I’m talking about Jackie Robinson and a ranch hand, about an immigrant on the Lower East Side and a bunch of G.I.s landing on the shores of Normandy. I love it because it captures the essential miracle of this country: all these pieces from every corner of the globe. It works in fits and starts. It’s messy, and it’s ugly. There’s sadness and tragedy. Yet something distinctive and full of energy emerges from it. And it captures the imaginations of people all around the world.

PG: And that ties in with your work, Bryan.

BC: I don’t know about that.

PG: Of course it does. It’s the very inclusiveness that the president talked about, the range of humanity you show in your work.

BC: I’m just interested in telling good stories. And in essence, this is a good story. It’s why we talk about legacy. In sports, when someone retires, they don’t automatically elect them to the Hall of Fame. There’s a buffer period, a five-year period when everything has to settle down. After five years of being out of the limelight, do we still think of that person?

BO: Let me pick up on that. I was having a conversation with a couple of actors who were insisting that what they do is different from what I do. No doubt, it’s different. But never underrate the power of stories. Lyndon Johnson got the Civil Rights Act done because of the stories he told and the ones [Martin Luther] King told. When L.B.J. says, “We shall overcome” in the chamber of the House of Representatives, he is telling the nation who we are. Culture is vital in shaping our politics. Part of what I’ve always been interested in as president, and what I will continue to be interested in as an ex-president, is telling better stories about how we can work together.

BC: Well, I think your story is going to have a very happy ending.