Senator Bernie Sanders admitted on Thursday night that he would raise taxes on middle-class American families to pay for his big government programs.

“Yes. They will pay more in taxes but less in health care,” Sanders said.

Asked the first question of the second night of Democrat debates, Sanders at first seemed to dodge the inquiry about whether he would raise taxes, focussing on his promises to extend Medicare to all Americans and provide free college through state colleges. He admitted that he would raise taxes when moderator Savanah Guthrie pointed out that he had not actually answered her question.

“Senator Sanders, I’ll give you ten seconds to ask the very direct question,” Guthrie said. “Will you raise taxes for the middle-class in a Sanders administration?”

That got Sanders to say yes.