bulya Profile Joined February 2016 Israel 384 Posts #2 Thanks for the guide. I'm not following it the way it is as I'm more focused on eco, but the viper idea is what I was looking for when I tried making lurkers work in ZvT myself (half a year ago).



Works wonders meanwhile. I guess if terrans will start realizing doom drops are available with this style there will be more turrets, but meanwhile these doom drops crush them. And if not, vipers make it work vs the PF, tank and libs (the terran counters to lurker hydra ling).



The hydra buff and lib nerf also helped.

Phaenoman Profile Joined February 2013 568 Posts Last Edited: 2017-03-18 00:48:51 #3 I like playing Hydra Lurker and Viper in my ZvTs. Gonna have a look at the stuff u got there. Ty! Random is hard work dude...

Aelendis Profile Joined February 2011 Belgium 892 Posts #4 So I've been experimenting with this style a bit and I have to say it is way more fun to play than ling-bane or roach-ravager.

Thanks for the guide!

loginn Profile Blog Joined January 2011 France 802 Posts #5 Why do you expand so slowly though ? Is early agression so hard to hold with this build ?

Stephano, Taking skill to the bank since IPL3. Also Lucifron and FBH

bulya Profile Joined February 2016 Israel 384 Posts #6 Railgan likes tech builds. Its goes for both, ZvT and ZvP.

You can make tech builds work on GM level, as shown by Railgan, but you can go for similar stuff with eco builds.



I'm going for the hydra lurker viper combo with an eco build (third at ~3:15, second gas at 4:00, and 6 gases only at 3 mineral lines saturated). Defending early on with queens and lings, get banes and bane speed, and aim for hydra lurker lings (with leftover banes) from there. The drops and the viper support is what I was missing when I tried making lurkers work myself in ZvT.



These doom drops sometimes make Terrans say GG on the spot.

c0sm0naut Profile Joined April 2011 United States 1207 Posts #7 I would be interested in knowing if the OP ever delays hydralisk production in favor of more bases or evo upgrades and just lives with ling bane in meantime. hydra seems to be xpensive this early, but i could be wrong.

Railgan Profile Joined August 2010 Switzerland 1483 Posts #8 On March 21 2017 03:03 loginn wrote:

Why do you expand so slowly though ? Is early agression so hard to hold with this build ?





You don't really expand slowly. It is just a standard 2 Hatch Opener. Instead of Mutalisks I open with Hydralisks. Delaying the Expansions allows me to take no damage from the opponent while still being even in Economy. I can then either punish him with my Units or play it greedy with mass eco.



You don't really expand slowly. It is just a standard 2 Hatch Opener. Instead of Mutalisks I open with Hydralisks. Delaying the Expansions allows me to take no damage from the opponent while still being even in Economy. I can then either punish him with my Units or play it greedy with mass eco. On March 21 2017 05:03 c0sm0naut wrote:

I would be interested in knowing if the OP ever delays hydralisk production in favor of more bases or evo upgrades and just lives with ling bane in meantime. hydra seems to be xpensive this early, but i could be wrong.



You need something to deal with the 16 marine Drop. You can also open the Standard 3 Hatch Style but I prefer going 2 Hatch into Hydralisk production. Feels safer and cutting Hydralisks doesn't really make sense in that scenario as they help greatly with drops / banshees. You need something to deal with the 16 marine Drop. You can also open the Standard 3 Hatch Style but I prefer going 2 Hatch into Hydralisk production. Feels safer and cutting Hydralisks doesn't really make sense in that scenario as they help greatly with drops / banshees. Grandmaster Zerg from Switzerland!!! www.twitch.tv/railgan // www.twitter.com/railgansc // www.youtube.com/c/railgansc

Railgan Profile Joined August 2010 Switzerland 1483 Posts #9



Further added a Video on playing 3 Roach into Hydra Lurker for the 3 Roach Opener Lovers:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJ7mJQVEDTI Added a link to the Spawning Tool in the Build Order in case anyone uses that.Further added a Video on playing 3 Roach into Hydra Lurker for the 3 Roach Opener Lovers: Grandmaster Zerg from Switzerland!!! www.twitch.tv/railgan // www.twitter.com/railgansc // www.youtube.com/c/railgansc

jpg06051992 Profile Joined July 2015 United States 466 Posts #10



vs. mech I usually just go standard roach/Hydra/Viper into Brood Lord so I'm a big fan of the unit, it just feels weak vs bio



Is it possible to mix in any banelings with this build order? Can you cut upgrades or does that leave you far too vulnerable to upgraded bio? I watch alot of your games and I really like the Ling/Hydra but I find myself just not able to take down the bio ball without banelings.vs. mech I usually just go standard roach/Hydra/Viper into Brood Lord so I'm a big fan of the unit, it just feels weak vs bio "SO MANY BANELINGS TASTELESS!"

Railgan Profile Joined August 2010 Switzerland 1483 Posts #11 On March 29 2017 14:43 jpg06051992 wrote:

Is it possible to mix in any banelings with this build order? Can you cut upgrades or does that leave you far too vulnerable to upgraded bio? I watch alot of your games and I really like the Ling/Hydra but I find myself just not able to take down the bio ball without banelings.



vs. mech I usually just go standard roach/Hydra/Viper into Brood Lord so I'm a big fan of the unit, it just feels weak vs bio



Is it possible to mix in any banelings with this build order? Can you cut upgrades or does that leave you far too vulnerable to upgraded bio? I watch alot of your games and I really like the Ling/Hydra but I find myself just not able to take down the bio ball without banelings.vs. mech I usually just go standard roach/Hydra/Viper into Brood Lord so I'm a big fan of the unit, it just feels weak vs bio

The strength of the build is that your hydras will have +1 carapace before your opponent finishes +1 attack if he goes for the 16 marine drop and your +1/+2 will often times finish before your opponent even gets to +1/+1. Upgraded Hydralisks have a huge edge on Marines and only tanks are able to stop them.



You can however add Banelings to the mix but I don't really like doing that. They often times get stuck behind the Hydralisks and die to splash or you dont get enough lings to go with the banes and the banes just end up die.



Ling Bane Hydra and Ling Bane Muta play pretty much the same way. You have a stronger fighting unit that is better against widowmines and much worse against tanks.



Example Replay of upgraded Hydras vs Marines: The strength of the build is that your hydras will have +1 carapace before your opponent finishes +1 attack if he goes for the 16 marine drop and your +1/+2 will often times finish before your opponent even gets to +1/+1. Upgraded Hydralisks have a huge edge on Marines and only tanks are able to stop them.You can however add Banelings to the mix but I don't really like doing that. They often times get stuck behind the Hydralisks and die to splash or you dont get enough lings to go with the banes and the banes just end up die.Ling Bane Hydra and Ling Bane Muta play pretty much the same way. You have a stronger fighting unit that is better against widowmines and much worse against tanks.Example Replay of upgraded Hydras vs Marines: http://sc2replaystats.com/replay/4612317 Grandmaster Zerg from Switzerland!!! www.twitch.tv/railgan // www.twitter.com/railgansc // www.youtube.com/c/railgansc

SilverHawk1 Profile Joined February 2016 12 Posts #12 Are you supposed to be able to get lurkers in time if the terran goes for a two base marine tank push?

bulya Profile Joined February 2016 Israel 384 Posts #13 On July 04 2017 19:38 SilverHawk1 wrote:

Are you supposed to be able to get lurkers in time if the terran goes for a two base marine tank push?



I play hydra ling bane with a lurker follow-up, and 2 base pushes (tank bio pushes) are held simply with queen ling bane, and if I have the time then hydra queen ling bane.



If you have a surround with the queens soaking the first tank shots then these pushes are pushed back easily.



I play a more eco style and tech slower then Railgan, so may be he has his own way of holding these pushes. I play hydra ling bane with a lurker follow-up, and 2 base pushes (tank bio pushes) are held simply with queen ling bane, and if I have the time then hydra queen ling bane.If you have a surround with the queens soaking the first tank shots then these pushes are pushed back easily.I play a more eco style and tech slower then Railgan, so may be he has his own way of holding these pushes.

Railgan Profile Joined August 2010 Switzerland 1483 Posts #14 On July 04 2017 19:38 SilverHawk1 wrote:

Are you supposed to be able to get lurkers in time if the terran goes for a two base marine tank push?

Maybe this Replay:

or this Video: Maybe this Replay: http://sc2replaystats.com/replay/5079186 (not sure if it is a perfect replay but I remembered playing a game like that hope it fits)or this Video:

will help you.



In short pull Queens and try to make them take the damage from the tanks while your hydras dps everything down.



will help you.In short pull Queens and try to make them take the damage from the tanks while your hydras dps everything down. Grandmaster Zerg from Switzerland!!! www.twitch.tv/railgan // www.twitter.com/railgansc // www.youtube.com/c/railgansc