OBAMA: I’m looking to negotiate to see maybe if I can take a drive somewhere at least on some open road.

GOODWIN: You mean before the end of your term?

OBAMA: Yeah.

GOODWIN: You know, the other guys could. Franklin Roosevelt drove Churchill almost to the edge of a cliff, in Hyde Park—and Churchill was so afraid. L.B.J. had his amphibious car when he was president. He tricked me and took me in his car one day, and the Secret Service collaborated with him. L.B.J., behind the wheel, warned me, “Be careful, we’re going toward a lake. The brakes aren’t working.” Well, we go into the lake: the car became a boat. Then he got so mad at me because I didn’t get scared. I’d figured, He’s not going to die. And he said, “Don’t you Harvard people have enough sense to be scared?” So these earlier presidents could do things like that. It seems like things have tightened.

OBAMA: Oh, absolutely. I think since the systematic emergence of terrorism and the assassination attempts, everything has tightened. My hope is that it loosens back up once I leave.

There are a couple of particular bodysurfing beaches that I’ve not been to in Hawaii for a long time that I want to go back to. [Laughter.] And there are places I want to visit where if I’m wearing a baseball cap and some sunglasses I think I can get away with and mingle in a crowd.

But, you know, when I leave I’ll be 55, and I’ll have an entirely new chapter of my life—the work I want to do with a presidential-center library, creating a platform for the next generation of young leaders across disciplines to work together … [and other] things that in some ways I suspect I’m able to do better out of this office.

GOODWIN: You mean, having had this office.

OBAMA: Having had this office has given me this incredible perch from which to see how the world works. The power of the office is unique and it is a humbling privilege. With that power, however, also comes a whole host of institutional constraints. There are things I cannot say. There are things that …

GOODWIN: You mean now, but you will later.

OBAMA: … that I cannot say, not out of any political concerns, but out of prudential concerns of the office. There are institutional obligations I have to carry out that are important for a president of the United States to carry out, but may not always align with what I think would move the ball down the field on the issues that I care most deeply about.

GOODWIN: It must be so freeing, I think—because you now have this foundation to do the stuff you want to do, but also you’re going to become more of a human being without this.

OBAMA: That’s the hope. And, look, I have no doubt that there will be moments as the next inauguration approaches where I’ll feel melancholy or nostalgic.

GOODWIN: And leaving all these people.

OBAMA: And the team that you build here, the family that you build here, is powerful. But there is a reason why George Washington is always one of the top three presidents, and it’s not because of his prowess as a military leader; it’s not because of the incredible innovations in policy that he introduced. It’s because he knew when it was time to go. And he understood that part of the experiment we were setting up was this idea that you serve the nation and then it’s over, and then you’re a citizen again. And that “office of citizen” remains important, but your ability to let go is part of the duty that you have.

GOODWIN: It’s as important as taking hold of the office. That’s part of our democracy.

OBAMA: As important as taking hold of the office is letting go of the office. And they’re of a piece—it is an expression of our fidelity to the ideals upon which this nation was founded.

GOODWIN: I agree. There will be perks that you’ll miss, I’m sure.

OBAMA: I will miss Air Force One. I will miss Marine One.

GOODWIN: I think I told you the story about Eisenhower, that he had not personally dialed a phone call for so long that when he finally was out of the presidency he picked up the phone and he hears this buzz, and he said, “What’s this buzz?” It’s the dial tone, Mr. President. [Laughter.]

OBAMA: I will say that, having a couple of teenage daughters, I’m a little more plugged into [laughter] technology than maybe Ike was.