Heen Profile Joined November 2003 Korea (South) 197 Posts #1



I've played this game for a very long time. Mechanically speaking, I'm pretty washed up compared to my former self but I consider myself pretty knowledgeable about the game and its various aspects such as growth as a team.



Talking to ahswtini last night reminded myself that I enjoy talking about DotA because I have a lot of thoughts about the game but it's only when I have to put them in words to answer questions that I feel I can organize my thoughts logically. Sometimes I only have a gut feeling about a topic but when I have to explain it, I can finally put my finger on it which is really satisfying.



Not all things in this game are objective so don't expect me to give you the absolute truth. It'll often end up being my 2 cents. I like giving detailed answers if possible so just shoot and I'll try my best to help out.



Advice on specific heroes, itemization, how to make progress as a team, things that aren't easily googled etc.



I might dodge questions if I'm not confident enough though! Stuff like Syllabear, ew. I don't play that hero. Ever since I moved from MVP Phoenix to Hot6, I've had more free time since our current team's name value doesn't compare to my former team's so we get a lot less invites to tournaments and I'll be attending to less LAN events for the forseeable future.I've played this game for a very long time. Mechanically speaking, I'm pretty washed up compared to my former self but I consider myself pretty knowledgeable about the game and its various aspects such as growth as a team.Talking to ahswtini last night reminded myself that I enjoy talking about DotA because I have a lot of thoughts about the game but it's only when I have to put them in words to answer questions that I feel I can organize my thoughts logically. Sometimes I only have a gut feeling about a topic but when I have to explain it, I can finally put my finger on it which is really satisfying.Not all things in this game are objective so don't expect me to give you the absolute truth. It'll often end up being my 2 cents. I like giving detailed answers if possible so just shoot and I'll try my best to help out.Advice on specific heroes, itemization, how to make progress as a team, things that aren't easily googled etc.I might dodge questions if I'm not confident enough though! Stuff like Syllabear, ew. I don't play that hero. Progamer ('''(G_G/'''')

Hydrolisko Profile Joined May 2004 Vanuatu 151 Posts #2 should put ya name in the title!



not really strategy but can you give us a little bit more background info on why you got moved?

opterown Profile Joined August 2011 Australia 12230 Posts #3 what are your favourite uncommon ward spots? Moderator Retired LR Bonjwa

Heen Profile Joined November 2003 Korea (South) 197 Posts #4 On April 11 2015 14:54 Hydrolisko wrote:

should put ya name in the title!



not really strategy but can you give us a little bit more background info on why you got moved?

We had a great run on the previous Phoenix but in the end I think our incompatibilities got the best of us. Almost a full year without a single roster change is pretty impressive if I might say so.



For example, instead of having 1~3 position cores, it felt like we had three 2 position cores at times and that affected the draft quite a bit. It's ironic because earlier on, when we were inexperienced, we were more united in our vision of DotA however flawed or naive it may have been. With more experience and skill, each player started developing his own vision of DotA and we agreed that we couldn't satisfy everyone's goal.



We got along well on a person to person level. But on a player to player level, we had a lot of disagreements which later led to trust issues.



We're still on very good terms after the split though. We had a great run on the previous Phoenix but in the end I think our incompatibilities got the best of us. Almost a full year without a single roster change is pretty impressive if I might say so.For example, instead of having 1~3 position cores, it felt like we had three 2 position cores at times and that affected the draft quite a bit. It's ironic because earlier on, when we were inexperienced, we were more united in our vision of DotA however flawed or naive it may have been. With more experience and skill, each player started developing his own vision of DotA and we agreed that we couldn't satisfy everyone's goal.We got along well on a person to person level. But on a player to player level, we had a lot of disagreements which later led to trust issues.We're still on very good terms after the split though. Progamer ('''(G_G/'''')

Iplaythings Profile Joined August 2009 Denmark 850 Posts #5 If you were a fan of a starcraft brood war team, which were yours?



+ How the hell do you reliably break high ground vs sniper ;_; (is it a big a thing in the korean metagame?) In the woods, there lurks..

Nightmarjoo Profile Joined October 2006 United States 388 Posts #6 How close do you think the Korean scene is to catching up with China and the best of the West?



Which heroes do you think are undervalued/underrated right now?



How do you think is the best way to learn from replays? How do you balance watching your own replays vs replays of tournaments or pub games of other top players?



Do you think it's best if one player makes the calls the whole game, or if the call-shotter should be one person but change to a different person at different points in the game (e.g. maybe a support calls the plays early, but mid takes over a little later, and carry after that or something)? How do you avoid chaos over the mic? If two players have two contradicting ideas of how to proceed in a game, how do you quickly resolve that quickly?



Are there any heroes you think could be at least situationally be really strong in a role other than how they're most commonly played at high level?



What percent of the time do you study or practice the roles and heroes other than what you main as? aka Lyra; My favourites: July, Stork, Draco, MistrZZZ, TheStc, LastShadow - www.broodwarmaps.net - for all your mapping needs; check my stream: high masters mech terran: twitch.tv/lyrathegreat

Heen Profile Joined November 2003 Korea (South) 197 Posts #7 On April 11 2015 15:53 opterown wrote:

what are your favourite uncommon ward spots?

http://imgur.com/zHhXBhd,IQXFhTN,Ds5Unp6,0s0mO0r,1PyC5dA,pwhf2tc,SJz4hYk#0



I picked some spots I like to put when I'm radiant.



My views on warding are simple.



1. The deeper the wards, the better.

2. A ward with less vision that is alive is better than an imba ward which gets dewarded anyway.

3. You only need selective vision anyway, especially late game, in order to tell what the opponents are up to, so sneaky wards that pick up on suspicious movements are equally valuable as ones that give more vision. All you need are clues, not the whole picture.

4. Wards that give vision in common smoke spots can be game-breaking. I picked some spots I like to put when I'm radiant.My views on warding are simple.1. The deeper the wards, the better.2. A ward with less vision that is alive is better than an imba ward which gets dewarded anyway.3. You only need selective vision anyway, especially late game, in order to tell what the opponents are up to, so sneaky wards that pick up on suspicious movements are equally valuable as ones that give more vision. All you need are clues, not the whole picture.4. Wards that give vision in common smoke spots can be game-breaking. Progamer ('''(G_G/'''')

Heen Profile Joined November 2003 Korea (South) 197 Posts Last Edited: 2015-04-11 08:10:01 #8 On April 11 2015 16:24 Iplaythings wrote:

If you were a fan of a starcraft brood war team, which were yours?



+ How the hell do you reliably break high ground vs sniper ;_; (is it a big a thing in the korean metagame?)

I usually rooted for players, not teams but if I had to pick one, probably SKT1 during Boxer and iloveoov's prime.



vs sniper you need a reliable way to instagib him obviously but you might be trying too early to break high ground especially if there's a good chance sniper has buyback.



The alternative is to kill his key teammates because sniper is actually pretty helpless for base defense without teammates unlike medusa for example.



The worst thing that can happen when you go high ground vs sniper is to commit to him but fail (or he buys back and it turns out you commited too heavily). So reliable yolo heroes like void, spectre, gap closing abyssal carriers who often have BKB as well are good. If the heroes are already picked and you don't have the best anti-sniper tools, you should try dealing with his teammates. It's definitely not easy but a common mistake I see is people tunnel visioning on the sniper and sometimes that's exactly what the sniper wants/expects.



Generally you want to have good map/rosh control before sniper hits 3+ core items which is where he starts getting the best of both worlds: damage and control.



Edit: if you can force sniper to get unusual items such as blink, BKB, shadow blade, force staff and such as a counter measure, it's a good sign. I usually rooted for players, not teams but if I had to pick one, probably SKT1 during Boxer and iloveoov's prime.vs sniper you need a reliable way to instagib him obviously but you might be trying too early to break high ground especially if there's a good chance sniper has buyback.The alternative is to kill his key teammates because sniper is actually pretty helpless for base defense without teammates unlike medusa for example.The worst thing that can happen when you go high ground vs sniper is to commit to him but fail (or he buys back and it turns out you commited too heavily). So reliable yolo heroes like void, spectre, gap closing abyssal carriers who often have BKB as well are good. If the heroes are already picked and you don't have the best anti-sniper tools, you should try dealing with his teammates. It's definitely not easy but a common mistake I see is people tunnel visioning on the sniper and sometimes that's exactly what the sniper wants/expects.Generally you want to have good map/rosh control before sniper hits 3+ core items which is where he starts getting the best of both worlds: damage and control.Edit: if you can force sniper to get unusual items such as blink, BKB, shadow blade, force staff and such as a counter measure, it's a good sign. Progamer ('''(G_G/'''')

deadmau Profile Joined September 2010 320 Posts #9 Heen, if you are ever at MLG Anaheim, are you down for some Korean BBQ?

HammerKick Profile Joined May 2013 France 5125 Posts #10 If you had to nerf troll, what would you do?

Any other hero you would like to see buffed/nerfed in the next patch? Well, it's high noon somewhere in the world

Heen Profile Joined November 2003 Korea (South) 197 Posts #11 On April 11 2015 16:35 Nightmarjoo wrote:

How close do you think the Korean scene is to catching up with China and the best of the West?



Which heroes do you think are undervalued/underrated right now?



How do you think is the best way to learn from replays? How do you balance watching your own replays vs replays of tournaments or pub games of other top players?



Do you think it's best if one player makes the calls the whole game, or if the call-shotter should be one person but change to a different person at different points in the game (e.g. maybe a support calls the plays early, but mid takes over a little later, and carry after that or something)? How do you avoid chaos over the mic? If two players have two contradicting ideas of how to proceed in a game, how do you quickly resolve that quickly?



Are there any heroes you think could be at least situationally be really strong in a role other than how they're most commonly played at high level?



What percent of the time do you study or practice the roles and heroes other than what you main as?

The Korean 'scene' will not catch up easily. But a few select teams that are on top of the food chain are closer than most people think. I think what the Korean teams lack is stability. When we did beat foreign teams, both Chinese and Western, we did it pretty convincingly I feel but when we lost, it was often one-sided. I think it's because the experience we can build up within Korea/SEA is limited so we can't confidently evaluate our strengths and weaknesses. Drafts sometimes feel like gambles because we've never tried them against top calibre teams.



I think Tree is underrated because you can afford to draft greedy these days and he doesn't fall off late game. Also I'm a bigger fan of lina support than core.



The nature of replays is that they've already happened. What you're watching is going to be with hindsight. Don't be result oriented. Evaluate replays with the same fairness that you would if it were live. If you're watching a replay of a top tier team, you should get more out of it than 'they picked X to counter Y and won.' Figure out how and why both the winning and losing team got to their respective situations. Realizing the big ideas and making it your own is really important.



You should try to watch replays from one team's perspective then watch it again with both team's vision to get an overview. I don't watch pub games of other top players unless it's some unorthodox hero that is on the rise. Like broodmother when it first got released in -cm.



If you're watching your own replay, it's even more important not to be result oriented. It's easy to think 'I should've backed' after you watch yourself die but that's not realistic. If retreating was the correct move, you should figure out a reason for it that can be applied in future games. Even twitch.tv retards who are probably all terrible can talk like they know it all because they're not in the driver's seat.



From a drafter's point, I try to keep an eye out for what 'kind' of hero certain teams draft in certain situations. Drafting has a lot to do with expertise and hero pool even at the top level so you shouldn't look too much into details but what each player contributes to the team.



I don't believe there is a definitive answer to shot-calling but usually the people with the power to change things should be calling the shots. Like you say, early game is often supports followed by late game being whoever is most powerful. Some people just don't talk as much as other so this isn't always the easiest though.



In Korean culture, there's some sort of hierarchy based on age and since I'm the oldest on my team I usually have authority over my teammates. It's convenient to have an authority figure in a team so you can control the communication and overrule certain decisions. In our team, we have a rule about no discussions/arguments during a game. So when there are disagreements, we say 'after the game' and move on or make a quick decision and nobody is allowed to object to it during game.



I situationally draft mirana carry but almost no team does this any more. It might be a hero preference thing since Forev enjoys playing the hero but people usually assume it's a support during the drafting stage and are unprepared for it in the game because she comes online faster than a lot of carries. When you stomp early game with mirana, it's easy to keep the pressure on. A lot of people will disagree with me but I think she's also good vs a lot of common heroes today such as storm, troll etc.



I don't practice support heroes outside of -cm mode unless it's a hero expertise issue. I usually play cores and try to get a better feeling of what type of games they excel at since I'm the drafter that's responsible for all 5 positions. My offlane is my worst role so I want to practice it to get a better understanding but it's hard to get a good sense of how the offlane works outside of -cm mode. The Korean 'scene' will not catch up easily. But a few select teams that are on top of the food chain are closer than most people think. I think what the Korean teams lack is stability. When we did beat foreign teams, both Chinese and Western, we did it pretty convincingly I feel but when we lost, it was often one-sided. I think it's because the experience we can build up within Korea/SEA is limited so we can't confidently evaluate our strengths and weaknesses. Drafts sometimes feel like gambles because we've never tried them against top calibre teams.I think Tree is underrated because you can afford to draft greedy these days and he doesn't fall off late game. Also I'm a bigger fan of lina support than core.The nature of replays is that they've already happened. What you're watching is going to be with hindsight. Don't be result oriented. Evaluate replays with the same fairness that you would if it were live. If you're watching a replay of a top tier team, you should get more out of it than 'they picked X to counter Y and won.' Figure out how and why both the winning and losing team got to their respective situations. Realizing the big ideas and making it your own is really important.You should try to watch replays from one team's perspective then watch it again with both team's vision to get an overview. I don't watch pub games of other top players unless it's some unorthodox hero that is on the rise. Like broodmother when it first got released in -cm.If you're watching your own replay, it's even more important not to be result oriented. It's easy to think 'I should've backed' after you watch yourself die but that's not realistic. If retreating was the correct move, you should figure out a reason for it that can be applied in future games. Even twitch.tv retards who are probably all terrible can talk like they know it all because they're not in the driver's seat.From a drafter's point, I try to keep an eye out for what 'kind' of hero certain teams draft in certain situations. Drafting has a lot to do with expertise and hero pool even at the top level so you shouldn't look too much into details but what each player contributes to the team.I don't believe there is a definitive answer to shot-calling but usually the people with the power to change things should be calling the shots. Like you say, early game is often supports followed by late game being whoever is most powerful. Some people just don't talk as much as other so this isn't always the easiest though.In Korean culture, there's some sort of hierarchy based on age and since I'm the oldest on my team I usually have authority over my teammates. It's convenient to have an authority figure in a team so you can control the communication and overrule certain decisions. In our team, we have a rule about no discussions/arguments during a game. So when there are disagreements, we say 'after the game' and move on or make a quick decision and nobody is allowed to object to it during game.I situationally draft mirana carry but almost no team does this any more. It might be a hero preference thing since Forev enjoys playing the hero but people usually assume it's a support during the drafting stage and are unprepared for it in the game because she comes online faster than a lot of carries. When you stomp early game with mirana, it's easy to keep the pressure on. A lot of people will disagree with me but I think she's also good vs a lot of common heroes today such as storm, troll etc.I don't practice support heroes outside of -cm mode unless it's a hero expertise issue. I usually play cores and try to get a better feeling of what type of games they excel at since I'm the drafter that's responsible for all 5 positions. My offlane is my worst role so I want to practice it to get a better understanding but it's hard to get a good sense of how the offlane works outside of -cm mode. Progamer ('''(G_G/'''')

Heen Profile Joined November 2003 Korea (South) 197 Posts #12 On April 11 2015 17:13 deadmau wrote:

Heen, if you are ever at MLG Anaheim, are you down for some Korean BBQ?

I prefer non-Korean food when I'm abroad but sure I prefer non-Korean food when I'm abroad but sure Progamer ('''(G_G/'''')

Heen Profile Joined November 2003 Korea (South) 197 Posts #13 On April 11 2015 17:49 HammerKick wrote:

If you had to nerf troll, what would you do?

Any other hero you would like to see buffed/nerfed in the next patch?

Keeping in mind how icefrog patches, nerf his strength gain and tweak his Q.



My long standing belief that 3 conditions make a hero OP (not inherently) are:

1. threatening

2. tanky or hard to kill

3. mobile



(different heroes satisfy these conditions with different items)

For spectre, it's radiance + 1 or 2 core items.

AM, pretty close to full slot.

Storm, any 2 items including bloodstone usually.

Bristleback, 1 vanguard for the early game and after that he has smooth item progression anyway so he's an imba pig.



I feel like troll gets to this stage too fast and his ability to lock down and kill an enemy core even more reliably than an aghanims doom is what makes him unfun to play against. Keeping in mind how icefrog patches, nerf his strength gain and tweak his Q.My long standing belief that 3 conditions make a hero OP (not inherently) are:1. threatening2. tanky or hard to kill3. mobile(different heroes satisfy these conditions with different items)For spectre, it's radiance + 1 or 2 core items.AM, pretty close to full slot.Storm, any 2 items including bloodstone usually.Bristleback, 1 vanguard for the early game and after that he has smooth item progression anyway so he's an imba pig.I feel like troll gets to this stage too fast and his ability to lock down and kill an enemy core even more reliably than an aghanims doom is what makes him unfun to play against. Progamer ('''(G_G/'''')

opterown Profile Joined August 2011 Australia 12230 Posts #14 what kind of support heroes would you recommend starting players learn to support on, and why?



what are the best kind of support heroes for a usually-core player to play? Moderator Retired LR Bonjwa

ahswtini Profile Joined June 2008 Northern Ireland 16336 Posts #15 if a big western team offered you a place on their roster after ti5, would u take it? basically, would u want to leave korea for dota "As I've said, balance isn't about strategies or counters, it's about probability and statistics." - paralleluniverse

Sassback Profile Joined September 2012 United States 408 Posts #16 When you play support, are there any tips you could give for effective roaming as a support? Sometimes i feel like i will leave the safe lane and try and smoke gank mid, only to have their mid tp to our safelane and gank our carry. Or just wander around ineffectually. Every night I pray for TL to give me my NiP flair, and every morning I wake up disappointed.

Heen Profile Joined November 2003 Korea (South) 197 Posts #17 On April 11 2015 17:49 HammerKick wrote:

Any other hero you would like to see buffed/nerfed in the next patch?



Sniper: sharpnel mana cost 50 to 75, does damage after 1 tick instead of insta damage on cast

Zeus: static field damage no longer disables blink dagger



Dragon Knight: reduced mana cost on Breathe fire

Death Prophet: Ult cd reduced by 15 seconds

because it's too easy to hold high ground in this patch and these kind of heroes get punished too heavily when you make mistakes and the games become quickly unwinnable.



Kunkka: armor from 2 to 4

Shadow demon: ult can be used on allies and gives movement buff instead of slow

Broodmother: removed from -cm Sniper: sharpnel mana cost 50 to 75, does damage after 1 tick instead of insta damage on castZeus: static field damage no longer disables blink daggerDragon Knight: reduced mana cost on Breathe fireDeath Prophet: Ult cd reduced by 15 secondsbecause it's too easy to hold high ground in this patch and these kind of heroes get punished too heavily when you make mistakes and the games become quickly unwinnable.Kunkka: armor from 2 to 4Shadow demon: ult can be used on allies and gives movement buff instead of slowBroodmother: removed from -cm Progamer ('''(G_G/'''')

Heen Profile Joined November 2003 Korea (South) 197 Posts #18 On April 11 2015 18:56 opterown wrote:

what kind of support heroes would you recommend starting players learn to support on, and why?



what are the best kind of support heroes for a usually-core player to play?

Skywrath because he's easy to play early game and the nature of the hero benefiting a lot from needing good setups makes you think about your rotations and he's not too pressured with item timings and has a smooth item progression so you can be flexible in every game. You can kind of just play to the tune of the game and not worry about things like blink timings.



Witch doctor for similar reasons but he's a lot different from Skywrath in terms of play style so you learn more on counter playing opponents. Also he wrecks hard if you manage to get good XP/gold on him so people can realize how impactful support play can pay off and allow you to pretty much carry games.



For usually core-players, it might be easier to play supports who have similar options to cores.

Lina, Rhasta, Enigma, Zeus, Sand king strike me as heroes that would be easy to transition to since they have the ability to farm and benefit a lot from it. They have better comeback mechanisms than lich or crystal maiden for example. Skywrath because he's easy to play early game and the nature of the hero benefiting a lot from needing good setups makes you think about your rotations and he's not too pressured with item timings and has a smooth item progression so you can be flexible in every game. You can kind of just play to the tune of the game and not worry about things like blink timings.Witch doctor for similar reasons but he's a lot different from Skywrath in terms of play style so you learn more on counter playing opponents. Also he wrecks hard if you manage to get good XP/gold on him so people can realize how impactful support play can pay off and allow you to pretty much carry games.For usually core-players, it might be easier to play supports who have similar options to cores.Lina, Rhasta, Enigma, Zeus, Sand king strike me as heroes that would be easy to transition to since they have the ability to farm and benefit a lot from it. They have better comeback mechanisms than lich or crystal maiden for example. Progamer ('''(G_G/'''')

Heen Profile Joined November 2003 Korea (South) 197 Posts #19 On April 11 2015 19:18 ahswtini wrote:

if a big western team offered you a place on their roster after ti5, would u take it? basically, would u want to leave korea for dota

Realistically no since I doubt the stability of most DotA teams and being away from home probably sucks. Maybe the younger me would have been more eager though. Now I'm just a cynical old man. Realistically no since I doubt the stability of most DotA teams and being away from home probably sucks. Maybe the younger me would have been more eager though. Now I'm just a cynical old man. Progamer ('''(G_G/'''')

Heen Profile Joined November 2003 Korea (South) 197 Posts #20 On April 11 2015 19:19 Sassback wrote:

When you play support, are there any tips you could give for effective roaming as a support? Sometimes i feel like i will leave the safe lane and try and smoke gank mid, only to have their mid tp to our safelane and gank our carry. Or just wander around ineffectually.

You can try smoking between 2-4 min mark when it's still day time and you're lvl 2+ and the opponent has a false sense of security. You have to read the creep equilibrium before you go or communicate with your mid player so that the opposing mid is going to be vulnerable.



The second timing is usually at first night where your mid now has ult (ex. storm, puck) and your angle for engaging is more varied. You generally want to pull back the wave on your side of the lane or push waves into their tower range. The worst scenario is where the creeps are just outside their tower range and the tower is going to hit heroes only when you go for the kill.



The important thing is to realize how practical your ganks are depending on who you're vsing and who's complying with your ganks. Some heroes are just incapable of making successful rotations unless the opponent fucks up. If you're going to do the job, you have to do it right. You can try smoking between 2-4 min mark when it's still day time and you're lvl 2+ and the opponent has a false sense of security. You have to read the creep equilibrium before you go or communicate with your mid player so that the opposing mid is going to be vulnerable.The second timing is usually at first night where your mid now has ult (ex. storm, puck) and your angle for engaging is more varied. You generally want to pull back the wave on your side of the lane or push waves into their tower range. The worst scenario is where the creeps are just outside their tower range and the tower is going to hit heroes only when you go for the kill.The important thing is to realize how practical your ganks are depending on who you're vsing and who's complying with your ganks. Some heroes are just incapable of making successful rotations unless the opponent fucks up. If you're going to do the job, you have to do it right. Progamer ('''(G_G/'''')

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