The first thing you need to know when listening to this week’s Ezra Klein Show is that the terms “liberal” and “democratic” are being used in their classical definitions, not as they relate to the Democratic Party of the United States. Three-time guest Yascha Mounk returns to talk about his latest book, The People vs. Democracy: Why Our Freedom Is in Danger and How to Save It, which argues that liberal democracy is breaking down globally and being replaced with “illiberal democracy” and “undemocratic liberalism.”

Buy The People vs. Democracy here: Amazon | Barnes & Noble

Since the 2016 election, many books have been published that cause alarm over the fragility of our political institutions. The People vs. Democracy is the latest in this genre, but How Democracies Die by Steven Levitsky and Daniel Ziblatt and Political Tribes by Amy Chua, both published this year, come up in this conversation as well.

How Democracies Die is a terrifying look at the ways authoritarianism infiltrates supposedly democratic political systems. Levitsky and Ziblatt point out the warning signs that Donald Trump’s presidency displays and offers solutions for how to get us back on track.

Buy How Democracies Die here: Amazon | Barnes & Noble

In Political Tribes: Group Instinct and the Fate of Nations, Amy Chua covers the rampant tribalism that has thrived both in American politics and globally. She argues that the way to save our democracy is with an inclusive national identity that “acknowledges the reality of group differences and fights the deep inequities that divide us.”

Buy Political Tribes here: Amazon | Barnes & Noble

Because Mounk has been on the show before, we’ve already heard his recommendations for books he thinks everyone should read. (The books were The Subjection of Women by John Stuart Mill, A House for Mr. Biswas by V.S. Naipaul, and The Leopard by Giuseppe Tomasi di Lampedusa if you’re interested.) Over the course of this episode, however, Ezra brings up a few books that relate to the idea that liberal democracy is in danger.

Finite and Infinite Games by James P. Carse, a book about game theory written by a religious scholar, is admittedly very weird. The book posits that there are two types of games: finite and infinite. The point of finite games is to win, while the point of infinite games is that everyone gets to keep playing. In the context of this conversation, Ezra brings it up to point out that many of our politicians are playing a finite game (passing a bill at all costs) rather than an infinite game more concerned with preserving American institutions than racking up short-term wins.

Buy Finite and Infinite Games here: Amazon | Barnes & Noble

According to Ezra, the thesis of the book Stealth Democracy: Americans’ Beliefs About How Government Should Work, by John R. Hibbing and Elizabeth Theiss-Morse, is that “people don’t have strong and stable views on policy ... but they have strong views on process.” Hibbing and Theiss-Morse found that there is an instinctual feeling among American citizens that disagreement, a fundamental part of democratic governance, is a sign that things aren’t working the way they should. They draw the frightening conclusion that people don’t actually want to see how government works, which can lead to decreased transparency and increased corruption.

Buy Stealth Democracy here: Amazon | Barnes & Noble

You can listen to the full conversation with Yascha Mounk on The Ezra Klein Show by subscribing on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts, or by streaming the episode here: