Julien Baker has captured the hearts of people all over the world, thanks to her poignant, heart-on-the-sleeve lyrics and warming melodies. Ahead of her headline London show at O2 Shepherd's Bush Empire, we caught up with the singer to discuss mental health and her love for hardcore

Hey Julien! How are you doing today?



I’m very well thank you! I’m in Switzerland at the moment, it’s very nice.



Amazing, let’s get started then. The thing on everyone’s lips at the moment is your project Boy Genius, with Lucy Dacus and Phoebe Bridges, what’s it like working with them? How did it come about?



Well it came about because we’re all going on tour together in November and I think it was pretty evident that we should do something special. At least performance-wise. There was a conversation around, what would we do? Would we do a cover, would we do one of our own songs? And that sort of grew. We got the idea of maybe we should write some original songs together and got excited around that, which snowballed into us getting together and writing the EP, so it happened pretty organically for us, it was pretty rapid.



It feels like there’s a bit of a scene at the moment, or a movement, with female singer-songwriters. There’s you three of course and then you’ve got Tancred and Gordi, do you think there’s a reason there’s currently such an outstanding generation?



Hmm. I think that right now it is not perfect and it is not complete, but I am observing a pivot in the way that we prioritise, or the way that we stratify art and I believe that I’m observing, and that we all are a disruption of the hierarchy of art.



It’s generally controlled by older, white, straight men and that is the predominant narrative voice and I think that right now, it is constantly being discussed how needed and how crucial the representation of female and queer, or just atypical, is. That’s the thing, there has been women and queer people making art forever and I think that it’s not necessarily that now there’s something in the water that it causing the appearance of more talented women, or more talented queer people, or more talented people of colour, that’s not the case. It’s that we’re finally beginning to turn our attention away from the dominant culture narrative and value the voices of women more.



That sums it up perfectly. Looking back, your list of collaborations is pretty fantastic and with some cool people, such as Andy Hull from Manchester Orchestra and Frightened Rabbit of course. Is there anyone in the world who you haven’t yet worked with, that you’d love to?



Honestly, Gordi is one. Sophie [Gordi] and I met at Eau Claire recently and we really hit it off that week and we did four sets together. I played in her set, she played in my set and then we did two sort of improvised sets and we became great friends, and I love her musical sensibility and would love to work with her in the future.



Very cool. You’ve previously mentioned that you listened to stuff like Green Day and Underoath when you were a teenager, which seems quite far removed from the music you make now, however do you still feel those influences coming out in the stuff you create?



Oh absolutely! I was just talking about this recently. To me, the statement of hardcore is there’s no precondition of sound, or it’s the same as like, you’ll hear people say that the characteristics of punk that make a punk band a punk band have little actually to do with how you execute the sound and your songwriting.



It’s so much more to do with the ethos of how you approach music and the energy behind it and the motivation. I think when you deconstruct those bands, any hardcore bands, when you get to the heart of what makes people resonate with hardcore music in general, it’s the emotion and the vulnerability and the people there looking for a shared catharsis.



The reason why I latched onto that kind of music so much was because, to see someone being transparent with their aggression and with their fear and their anger and sadness was something revolutionary to me and I think that’s something you can apply to any sort of music, no matter what it sounds like. As long as it is an honest and compassionate portrayal of your emotions that connects you to an audience, sharing that emotion, I think it’s achieving the same goal.



Quite a lot of your music touches upon mental health, what gave you the courage to talk about these topics? Was it intentional from the get-go, or do you find yourself writing and then realising afterwards that you’ve gone into those areas?



My girlfriend and I, or my family and I, or even the people I tour with especially, we’re all very, very open about our needs, because it’s hard and I think people working in the music industry, it’s like one of two things. I see the touring and irregular schedule and a less dependable routine, which sort of makes it hard to have these anchors of sanity in your life and you have to work extra hard to be aware of yourself. But then also, I think a lot of the time the creative people that I meet, they feel very deeply, like that’s my problem, well it’s not a problem, but it’s a quality of mine, that I feel everything very deeply, but that means I feel good and bad and up and down very deeply.



To answer the question, that is something I’ve become a lot more intentional about discussing, especially in the last year or so. I think the time when I was making music in a band or when I made Sprained Ankle, the fact that I was discussing or that my songs had themes of grappling with mental health, was just sort of a function of me needing to use songs for catharsis. I’ve always written about what is troubling me, that’s one of my most direct and immediate forms of release and how I work through things, but I would write songs about how I was feeling and then that emotion would be released and I would leave it how it is and I wouldn’t question it any further. Then when I started touring Sprained Ankle I had to revisit those songs 50-60 times on a bunch of shows, and it made me have to confront what I was saying over and over again and wonder, “Why would I say these things about myself?” or “What’s causing me to feel this way?” and then instead of just thinking about the emotion itself I would start to unravel the motivation and the cause and the circumstance.



I think on this most recent record and just in my life, it’s been a matter of coping with feelings by being intentionally vulnerable about what they are. Because without doing that first, you can’t move on to addressing the issue. You have to be vulnerable in order to find a solution, or else you can’t name and identify the problem. I think it always felt like just something that was done out of necessity.



Do you think the industry attracts those with issues, or does it create them?



Honestly it’s probably a little bit of both. I think that creative people feel deeply and are empathetic and in tune with their emotions and they can articulate them, analyse them and feel them well. Those people I think tend to be more prone to having mental health issues, just because maybe their minds work in a very unique way.



I honestly don’t think it’s isolated to artists. I think everyone should probably go to therapy, I think that it’s not as if there are people who have mental health issues and people that don’t, I think there are people who deal with their conditions naturally and in a healthy way, and people who don’t know how to do that yet. Or people who naturally developed coping skills and people who don’t naturally have coping skills. We all have mental baggage.



Living a life that is constantly engaged with art and is constantly plumbing the depths of those feelings or reflecting upon those feelings, I think if you’re not careful, can construct a feedback loop of it.



We’re obviously super excited about your upcoming show at O2 Shepherd’s Bush Empire, for those who have never seen you before, what can they expect?



It’ll be different than any other time that I’ve been to London, because I started touring with a friend of mine who plays violin with me now. I’ve changed the set, I’ve changed the feel a little bit to keep it interesting, so we’ll see how it goes over. This European run is the first pilot of all the new stuff so I’m so nervous.



It’s not like there’s going to be backup dancers and people with sequin banners, but who knows, I might surprise you.



If you had to pick three words to describe your music, what would they be?



Oh my god. Umm. I don’t want to be cheeky, but I was going to say, “not as sad as you think”. It sounds really sad, but it’s not actually that sad.



Have you had chance to catch your support, Becca Mancari’s set yet? How’s she sounding?



Oh my gosh, yes. I’ve seen almost all the sets. She’s amazing. She’s uh-mazing. Her record, Good Woman is really good. She’s a fellow Nashville songwriter, but I really, really recommend getting in there early because she is incredible and she’s also just a great person. She interacts with the crowd in this very congenial way, I think she’s very skilled at articulating big concepts in a simple way and that’s what makes her music so immediate. Please get there early to see her.

Want to experience Julien Baker's captivating live show? Then get your tickets for her headline London show now, but be quick, you don't have long!

O2 Shepherd's Bush Empire: Saturday 29 SeptemberBuy Tickets

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