by MAD, and Paul & Phillip D. Collins (May 10, 2007; originally published here on May 6, 2007)

MAD: Paul and Phillip, thank you so much for engaging in this discussion today, I’ve been looking forward to it. I recently had the opportunity to finish an e-book copy of your work The Ascendancy Of The Scientific Dictatorship (which you so graciously sent me), and it was a highly researched and impressive read. While we might have some differences of opinion regarding the religious aspect of things, I pretty much agree with the technical information you are providing, and think you’re right on the mark with the great majority of your conclusions. A highly recommendable book which deserves as widespread a readership as possible, it’s hard to argue with the copious amount of perspective you so articulately provide in this tome. Regular contributors at Conspiracy Archive and Raiders News Network, could you give us a little bit of background on some of those events which first gleaned your interest in the Scientific and Occult methodology that’s swiftly emerging today in the myriad forms of a New World Order?

Paul: My background begins in my late teens when we were living in Colorado. That particular state really rubbed off on us. At that time (the early 90s), Colorado was made up of people who were rugged individualists with a healthy suspicion of government. However, they were also real salt of the earth people who would give you the shirts off their backs. So, the whole anti-authoritarian environment really rubbed off on us. It was everywhere, including school. While we were in high school (we graduated in 1993), there was a sizeable anarchist crowd that was part of the school population. Cliques were frowned upon at our school and everyone was pretty close, your particular walk of life (e.g., metal head, hippy, preppy, anarchist, etc.) not withstanding. So, we were close to a lot of those anarchist kids. We didn’t really share all their views on how society should be arranged, but they did point out some very legitimate flaws with modern government (Clinton was President at the time, and they cut him absolutely no slack). Everyone at the time had a sense that something was not quite right, and that included myself. So, I got some books and began to read.

However, my epiphany really didn’t come until we relocated to Ohio in late 1995. At that time, I began taking classes at a local community college (I had started college in Colorado, but I began to get serious about earning a degree when I relocated). It was there that I met the judge who taught me Constitutional Law and Criminal Justice. When he wasn’t running his court, he was contributing his time to teach at the college. I’d heard he’d had an interesting background, but I didn’t know just how interesting until he gave a talk in a different class entitled: “American Issues.” He stated that he had been a CIA asset during his college days. He was also reenlisted by the Agency when he was in the Marine Corp over in Vietnam. The Agency wanted him to gather intel from the indigenous population. His legend (i.e., trade rap for your cover that is supposed to hold until you slip away) was that he was a Canadian national running a trading post and doing trade with the natives. When he asked what his job would involve, they told him, “You’re a nice guy, talk to people.” And that is what he did.

V.C. and N.V.A. would warm up to him, tell him what hill their uncles, cousins, brothers, fellow soldiers, etc. were on and my teacher would report back to his handlers. Lo and behold, the locations he reported ended up being bombed.

My teacher ended up making good friends with an N.V.A. general. The general wanted my teacher to visit Hanoi with him. My teacher wasn’t thrilled at all with the idea. His Agency handlers, however, thought the opportunity to gather intel in the heart of enemy territory was too good to let slip by. So, they told him to do it. And he did it, but not too well. Imagine being the only white guy in Hanoi. It was a very stressful time and my teacher just could not function. So he came back with some very poor intel.

Someone in the Agency wasn’t pleased with my teacher’s performance, and blew his cover. The Valerie Plame affair is nothing new. The intel business is very dangerous, especially when things get politicized. To make a long story short (too late), my teacher found himself in danger and, if it wasn’t for his NVA general friend, he wouldn’t be alive today.

This man basically taught me that deep political practices and conspiracy are a reality. So, I started looking into it a lot more then. But, I didn’t start writing just yet. My first great love was, and still is, acting and the stage. So, my time was mostly spent doing plays.

That changed in 2001 when the local theatre scene started to dry up and 9/11 happened. I actually wrote my first book and started to actively engage this topic seriously.

Phillip: Like Paul, my first passion has been theatre and the performing arts. I have acted in several plays and one independent film (which, sadly, was shelved). I also play guitar and absolutely love music. However, Ohio is not necessarily the cultural Mecca of the United States, so neither of us have had a very supportive climate for these interests. We still pursue them, but we have devoted more time to research concerning elite criminality and conspiratorial history.

I really became interested in these particular subjects as my studies in media criticism and philosophy progressed. Media criticism, which concerns itself predominantly with semiotics, makes no bones about the role of the mass media’s role in sculpting public opinion and, in the words of Noam Chomsky, “manufactures consent.” During my studies in philosophy, I was introduced to deceased philosopher Michel Foucault. Foucault’s work, particularly in Discipline and Punish, affirmed the Orwellian contention that society was experiencing a tectonic shift towards a carceral culture. Although some of Foucault’s historical research was questionable and his ideological propensities tended to blur his analysis, Discipline and Punish succinctly demonstrated the mass diffusion of the panoptic schema throughout society. While conspiracy tends to be a rather taboo topic in academia, there’s an impressive body of scholarly work that affirms the reality of a conspiratorial dimension to human history. Foucault was one such source.

The basic thesis of The Ascendancy of the Scientific Dictatorship began to develop while I was in a course over science and religion. For me, the course affirmed the contentions of controversial thinkers like Charles Fort and Thomas Kuhn. In that course, which should have been more appropriately titled Scientism 101, I had firsthand experience with what Fort called “the orthodox conventionality of Science.” I recognized the epistemological rigidity with which modern science approached phenomena and the sociological considerations according to which certain conclusions were made. All of these conclusions were made to affirm a particular Weltanschauung, which was inherently technocratic and morally anarchistic. Many scientists were acting as priests in lab coats, providing authoritarian paradigms with scientific legitimization. The theoreticians who were virtually canonized in my science and religion course all advocated some pretty dubious, if not downright anti-democratic, forms of governance. In short, I had a brush with what could only be characterized as an epistemological cartel.

MAD: I too share your love of theatre and music, at least aspects of the arts, and have a background in these areas as well. And I agree with your statement Phillip, that while conspiracy might seem “taboo” to some, or extremist paranoia, there is undoubtedly a reality to the conspiratorial dimensions of human history. Especially when concerning $$$, politics or religion. Aside from those things we could debate upon in concerns to how religion plays into the whole structure, it might be a good time to get the controversial topic of Evolution VS Creationism, and if there is a middle ground that can be met between theory and faith, science and religion, matter and spirit. While we can conclude that there’s a Scientific Regime at work behind the scenes, ruled by corporate interests and deceptive governmental agencies, would you agree that there is some truth behind evolution and merit to the vast array of scientific discoveries which have changed the landscape of our world over the past few hundred years? Whatever gaps and holes might be within the current models of evolutionary theory, can we really throw the baby out with the bathwater when it comes to the calculative logic and reasoning of science and natural selection? Can there be reconciliation between science and religion, that’s not controlled by New Age special interest groups?

Phillip: Well, let’s examine one of the patron saints of our modern epistemological cartel, Charles Darwin. Technocrats, elitists, racists, and Freemasons surrounded Darwin. Such men shaped Darwin’s thinking and, in turn, his theories. As Miguel De Cervantes put it in Don Quixote , “Tell me what company thou keepest, and I’ll tell thee what thou art.” Proffering a form of elitism that was now premised upon biology, Darwinism affirmed this maxim.

Darwinism represented an attempt to scientifically dignify a Weltanschauung that was politically and socially expedient to the elite. Darwin sculpted his theory along the contours of his own Weltanschauung, which was strongly influenced by several questionable ideologues like T.H. Huxley (a racist, a Freemason, a fellow of the Masonic Royal Society, a member of an oligarchical dynasty, and one of the individuals responsible for the formation of the Rhodes Round Table Groups), Erasmus Darwin (Charles’ grandfather, a Freemason, a member of the technocratic Lunar Society, and a supporter of the radical, Illuminist-bred Jacobins), Harriet Martineau (a Comtean sociocrat, Positivist, an apologist for the corporate interests of the Whigs, and an advocate of eugenical regimentation), and Herbert Spencer (a theoretician of the technocratic social sciences and an advocate of Britain’s genocidal colonial warfare). All of these individuals acted as hosts for ideational contagions that were endemic to the ruling class. They, in large measure, shaped Darwin’s thinking. I guess you could characterize it as a memetic transmission belt of sorts.

Adrian Desmond and James Moore most eloquently synopsized the results of this hideous ideational amalgam:

“Social Darwinism is often taken to be something extraneous, an ugly concretion added to the pure Darwinian corpus after the event, tarnishing Darwin’s image. But his notebooks make plain that competition, free trade, imperialism, racial extermination, and sexual inequality were written into the equation from the start–“Darwinism” was always intended to explain human society.”

Darwinism was always meant to be a social theory, not a scientific one. The type of society that it was designed to explain was that type of society that Darwin saw continually advocated by the dominant sociopolitical interests of the time, which were purely oligarchical in character.

Of course, the historical tide of Darwinism did not rise in a completely organic fashion. There was a conspiratorial element behind the dissemination and popularization of Darwinism. The Masonic Royal Society would bestow Darwinism with institutional accreditation, which is the secular equivalent of a religious blessing. Now, one could consider the Royal Society a collection of naïve Baconians who believed in an oversimplified epistemology of empirical science devoid of intention, devoid of hypotheses (Newton’s hypothesis non fingo). However, there was an inner circle within the Royal Society, which Adrian Desmond and James Moore characterize as “a sort of masonic Darwinian lodge, invisible to outsiders.” This inner circle was the X Club. Its members wielded a substantial amount of influence over every famous scientist at the time. All of its members except Herbert Spencer were secretaries or presidents of “learned societies.” T.H. Huxley presided over the group, which would manipulate the scientific press.

One of the most prevalent examples of the X Club’s media manipulation was its obfuscation of the Bathybius haeckelii. When it was discovered that Bathybius haeckelii was gypsum and not the missing Monera in Ernst Haeckel’s phylogenetic tree, the X Club suppressed almost every revelation of the debacle. Remember, the X Club was presided over by T.H. Huxley, a Freemason and a participant in the formation of the Rhodes Round Table Groups. The Round Table Groups were devoted to the formation of a British-ruled socialist totalitarian world government. Out of the Round Table Groups would come the Royal Institute for International Affairs. The RIIA would establish a stateside branch here in the United States known as the Council on Foreign Relations. This organization has acted as America’s premiere foreign policy cartel and a major catalyst for globalization. Globalism, in the words of the late Malachi Martin, qualifies as “sociopolitical Darwinism.” It is premised upon the belief that global governance is the natural corollary of man’s alleged political evolution.

Mind you, T.H. Huxley was instrumental in establishing the organizational infrastructure that would lead to the modern network of institutions devoted to the promulgation of sociopolitical Darwinism. Given his Freemasonic heritage, Huxley probably embraced many of the technocratic Utopian ideas of the Enlightenment. He and many others probably viewed Darwinism as the scientific foundation for the oligarchical vision that they were hoping to tangibly enact. The crusade for a New World Order is neo-Gnostic in character. All modern sociopolitical Utopians seek to realize the Gnostic vision of an immanentized Eschaton. Communists, fascists, socialists, Transnationalists, Internationalists, and the like constitute secular Gnostics who envision an Eschaton (‘end of days”) within the ontological plane of the physical universe. Darwinism promised to edify the adherents of this vision. Darwinism functions as a Gnostic myth, affirming the Gnostic claim of “self-salvation” with the metaphysical claim of “self-creation.”

By the way, metaphysical claims have always been the province of religion. The theme of “self-creation,” which is encapsulated within the Darwinian thesis of abiogenesis, can be found in other older occult belief systems. For instance, the Kabalistic legend of the golem presents a living man that arises from dead matter. As Albert Pike pointed out in Morals and Dogma , Kabbalism was one of the occult belief systems that formed the core of Masonry. Given the considerable number of Masonic personages surrounding Darwin, it is very possible that occult concepts like the golem found its way into Darwin’s thinking and his theory.

MAD: Sorry to interrupt for a moment, but in relation to the Golem ideal, we also have the distinguished and esoteric laden story of Frankenstein’s Monster, written by Mary Shelley in 1818. Also known as ‘The Modern Prometheus’. Her husband, the romantic poet Percy Bysshe Shelley, is perhaps most well known for his work ‘Prometheus Unbound’. To take this even further, it is connotative to the proposed powers and talents of the ancient Alchemists, transforming lead into gold, or temporal life into eternal life. We still see this motto, this practice, in widespread use today with the Catholic ritual of transubstantiation. In many ways this also relates in a more modern and scientific representation as the ideal of “Free Energy”, of which people like Nikola Tesla and Wilhelm Reich were greatly interested in. A “Primordial Mound” of consciousness, creation and energy; a sort of Self-pollination from the cosmic ether. Some might call it the awakening of ‘Kundalini’ or the 3rd Eye, but that’s a whole different discussion.

Phillip: You’re correct and that is a very adequate summation of these same basic occult beliefs and intellectual uniformity which is evidenced in the role of the Golem. Transmutation, and mastery over either the metaphysical or the scientific. And ultimately, alchemy or the occult, have always been related in some form or fashion to the scientific explanation and understanding of natural events.

MAD: We might wonder if SCIENCE and SÉANCE have the same root function? Or SION for that matter, which is not only a prominent capital city in the Bible, but is also associated with THE SUN.

Phillip: It could be. As for the so-called conflict between science and religion, we tend to agree with Rama Coomaraswamy (who we quote extensively in our book). The conflict is not between science and religion, but between two attitudes. The traditional attitude recognizes science for what it is… a system of quantification. As such, science must occupy itself predominantly with quantifiable entities. Science is derived from the Latin word scientia, which means “knowing” or “knowledge.” Modern science, which is dominated by the Baconian method and empiricism, can only provide knowledge of what is quantifiable. Thus, it can only offer a fragmentary glimpse of the totality of truth. To assert that science alone will bring the totality of truth into clear focus is the epistemological dogmatism known as scientism. There are other epistemologies that, when placed in a hierarchical system of application along with science, can provide a greater understanding of the truth.

For instance, take man’s innate ability of abstraction. From the sensible objects of the physical world, man is able to extrapolate universal principles. In turn, these universal principles gesticulate toward a universal directive principle. That directive principle is God. Paul the Apostle demonstrated the process of abstraction with a wonderful economy of words in the Scriptures:

“For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse.” (Romans 1:20)

Grasping this reality would be impossible within the epistemologically rigid parameters of radical empiricism. The senses only play a passive role in knowledge. The active role of knowledge acquisition is provided by the mind and the principles that it extrapolates from sensible objects are supra-sensible. Certainly, accepting this reality is difficult for those laboring under the paradigm of radical empiricism. However, the reality of those supra-sensible principles derived from sensible objects is irrefutable. Mathematical principles are supra-sensible, but they are no less real and can be tangibly manifested through architecture. How many times have greater possibilities been overlooked because of the epistemological rigidity of scientism?

As a Christian, I strongly believe that the Lord reveals certain truths to us. No doubt, many will raise a skeptical eyebrow. Yet, I would caution anyone who would rush to judgment. Science’s purely empirical approach is no less mystical in character. To demonstrate the mystical nature of radical empiricism, I will quote directly from our book:

Yet, an exclusively empirical approach relegates cause to the realm of metaphysical fantasy. This holds enormous ramifications for science. What is perceived as A causing B could be merely a consequence of circumstantial juxtaposition. Although temporal succession and spatial proximity are axiomatic, causal connection is not. Affirmation of causal relationships is impossible. Given the absence of causality, all of a scientist’s findings must be taken upon faith. Ironically, science relies on the affirmation of such cause and effect relationships.

So, a purely empirical approach is no more reliable. Radical empiricism overemphasizes the passive component of knowledge and completely overlooks the active component, which is the intellect. The intellect and abstraction are extremely important. They reflect man’s universal position of imago viva Dei (created in the image of the Creator). Radical empiricism really stems from a somewhat Gnostic dissatisfaction with cognitio fidei (the cognition of faith). It comes as little surprise that Jesus rebuked Thomas for his radical empiricism, admonishing “Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed” (John 20:29).

Moreover, the radical empirical approach holds significant ramifications for human dignity and liberty. Henri de Saint-Simon, who was the mentor of August Comte and an early advocate of a scientific dictatorship, extended radical empiricism to questions of governance. This extension led to the physiological or organic interpretation of the state. Thus, we have sociology’s concept of the “social organism.” According to this sociological concept, the state is one enormous social organism and the citizens are mere cells. As such, citizens are subordinate to the collective. This is vintage collectivism, which was the political doctrine of both Nazi Germany and communist Russia. It comes as little surprise that Ernst Haeckel, Hitler’s mentor in social Darwinism, contend that each cell of an organism, “though autonomous, is subordinated to the body as a whole; in the same way in the societies of bees, ants, and termites, in the vertebrate herds, and in the human state, each individual is subordinate to the social body of which he is a member.”

Of course, there is always an elite who occupies the developmental capstone of the physiological state. For Haeckel, it was the Aryan. For the sociopolitical Darwinian elite of today, it is whoever occupies their own layer of socioeconomic stratum. Darwinism was designed according to such elitist presuppositions. Haeckel said that natural selection was “aristocratic in the strictest sense of the word.”

I’ve said this in other interviews, but it is worth repeating… Have you ever contemplated the etymology of the term “religion”? It means “to bind.” Any belief that binds the adherent through a system of ritualized practices qualifies as a religion. I once had a guitar instructor who admonished me to practice my scales “religiously.” Football fans could also qualify as members of a “religion.” I submit to you the ongoing jihad between Ohio State and Michigan fans. Now, there is a religious war that I think might even make the most ardent Islamic jihadist cringe. Consider Bob Dylan… now there is a deity that has enjoyed being the center of the largest secular religion around.

I have argued throughout most of my work that even the most stridently secular Weltanschauung invariably becomes religious in character. That is because all Weltanschauungs must proffer some core metaphysical claim. Metaphysical claims have always been the province of religion.

And, one could argue that secular Weltanschauungs are conceptually and philosophically predisposed to follow religious trajectories. In the article “Nothing Beyond the Flesh: The Theocracy of Prima Materia,” I argue that anti-theistic, anti-spiritual Weltanschauungs are merely camouflaged variants of the same anthropocentric religion. So, either way, religion enters the picture.

By the way, neither Paul nor I are what you would call “Creationists.” We are Christians and we believe that the Lord created man in His own image. However, we do not subscribe to a majority of Creationist theories, which tend to exalt entropy as some sort of universal principle and also attempt to explain the miraculous within the context of metaphysical naturalism. In hopes of offering some naturalistic explanations of what are clearly supernatural events, Creationists fall into the same metaphysical trap as evolutionists.

MAD: I agree that the Creationists and Evolutionists fall into similar traps. While it might sound ‘Illuminist’ of me, and I realize there is ‘evil’ in the world, I’ve come to the conclusion that there is no difference between that of Entropy and Order, that they are both equal and opposite functions of the universe, which are unilaterally serving the same inevitable outcome. This ultimately all comes down to Creation working on indefinite levels of time/space and reality, in a never-ending and divine balance which is both harmony and discord. Though, those unscrupulous among us, who might abide by the more ‘negative’ aspects of life, considering themselves magicians, will take it from the old “Ordo Ab Chao”, and create the Chaos they need, in order to offer us solutions and give us their version of Order. Classic problem/reaction/solution techniques where the EL-ites are trying to make themselves into “Gods” of the New Jerusalem, or the New Olympus, New Atlantis, etc….

In your well written and informative article The Alchemy Of Warfare you make the following statements:

Darwinism was but one more permutation of an ancient occult doctrine of transformism. This occult belief originated in Mesopotamia roughly 6000 years ago and was actively promulgated by the various Mystery cults. It also comprises the ruling class religion of today. At the heart of the doctrine is the claim that man is gradually evolving towards apotheosis. Throughout the years, the religion of apotheosized man has recycled itself under numerous appellations. Darwinism was but one more installment in this seamless ideational continuum. In this series, I am going to examine one of the chief facilitators of man’s purported evolution: war. In hopes of fulfilling their occult Darwinian doctrine, the elite intend this war to last for a very long time. After all, war is evolution.

Would you conclude that the primal ideals and understanding of eugenic methods and evolutionary theory has been with us since at least the times of ancient Mesopotamia, some 6000 years ago? For instance, there is much speculation and evidence suggesting that Neanderthal was heralded into extinction not only because of the nature of their environment, but also due to a “race war” with the emerging Cro-Magnon, and other competing tribes (some 75,000B.C.). Do you believe that the tactics of eugenics have been employed, in one form or another, since the dawn of human civilization?

Phillip: You are absolutely correct about eugenical practices dating back much further into human history. Sparta, for instance, employed hideous practices of infanticide and euthanasia in hopes of maintaining the “superior stock” for its militaristic society. Men like Charles Darwin and Sir Francis Galton would simply dignify such concepts with pseudo-scientific theories. Arguably, several scientific paradigms of the late 19th century were merely engineered to affirm the practices and doctrines of the ruling class. The elite needed a new ecclesiastical authority to legitimize their new theocracy, which was premised upon the same anthropocentric religion that originated in Mesopotamia 6000-years ago. Theoreticians like Galton and Darwin served this purpose.

MAD: The famed Greek philosopher Plato, was also a promoter of superior or “noble” bloodlines and genetics, claiming they were more valuable and worthy than those of the “lesser races”.

Quote from Republic :

“[459a] You have in your house hunting-dogs and a number of pedigree cocks … do not some prove better than the rest? Do you then breed from all indiscriminately, or are you careful to breed from the best? [459b] And, again, do you breed from the youngest or the oldest, or, so far as may be, from those in their prime? And if they are not thus bred, you expect, do you not, that your birds and hounds will greatly degenerate? And what of horses and other animals? Is it otherwise with them? … How imperative, then, is our need of the highest skill in our rulers, if the principle holds also for mankind? … [459d] the best men must cohabit with the best women in as many cases as possible and the worst with the worst in the fewest, [459e] and that the offspring of the one must be reared and that of the other not, if the flock is to be as perfect as possible. And the way in which all this is brought to pass must be unknown to any but the rulers, if, again, the herd of guardians is to be as free as possible from dissension. [460a] Certain ingenious lots, then, I suppose, must be devised so that the inferior man at each conjugation may blame chance and not the rulers [460b] and on the young men, surely, who excel in war and other pursuits we must bestow honors and prizes, and, in particular, the opportunity of more frequent intercourse with the women, which will at the same time be a plausible pretext for having them beget as many of the children as possible. And the children thus born will be taken over by the officials appointed for this, men or women or both, since, I take it, the official posts too are common to women and men.” Plato And Totalitarianism: Quotations From World Philosophy

In the piece entitled Engineering Evolution: The Alchemy Of Eugenics, you quote:

In the dark past of human civilization, the ruling class controlled humanity largely through religious institutions and mysticism. However, the turn of the century witnessed the epistemic transformation of the elite’s religious power structure into a “scientific dictatorship.” The history and background of this “scientific dictatorship” is a conspiracy, created and micro-managed through the historical tide of Darwinism, which has its foundations in Freemasonry… A common misnomer that has been circulated by academia’s anointed historians is that the alchemists of antiquity were attempting to transform lead into gold. In truth, this was a fiction promulgated by the alchemists themselves to conceal their ultimate objectives . . .the transformation of man into a god. Among one of the various occult organizations that aspired to complete this alchemical mission was Freemasonry… Before its popularization, evolutionary theory was the intellectual property of Masonry. Freemason Erasmus Darwin, Charles’ grandfather, “originated almost every important idea that has since appeared in evolutionary theory” (Darlington, p. 62, 1959). It is hardly a coincidence that many of Charles Darwin’s chief promoters were Freemasons, not the least of which being T.H. Huxley. It is even less of a coincidence that Charles Darwin’s cousin, Sir Francis Galton, would become one of the early expediters of Masonry’s alchemical agenda.

Though I would agree with you that Darwin’s presentations were incomplete and somewhat rudimentary, and the man himself was tied to the Freemasons as well as the birth of the Eugenics Movement, I don’t necessarily think that negates the evidence for evolution, or prove that the theory itself is false or part of an elaborate hoax. I completely respect individual beliefs and religious faith, people’s right to choose their own path, but do you see the capability for “evolution” and “spirituality” to coexist? Are we dealing with a false paradigm altogether?

Phillip: You’re right about not throwing the baby out with the bathwater… if the baby is not bad to begin with. Again, the neo-Darwinian contention has been that Social Darwinism and eugenics were later additions to the “pure” evolutionary doctrine. However, Darwin’s own personal history clearly demonstrates that this was not the case. Darwin’s cousin, Sir Francis Galton, is considered the founder of the modern eugenics movement. Darwin dignified Galton’s ideas, commenting that “genius tends to be inherited.” Darwin quoted from Galton extensively in The Descent of Man . In fact, Descent opens with quite a candid endorsement of selective breeding. I’ll quote Darwin directly for the edification of the audience:

With savages, the weak in body or mind are soon eliminated; and those that survive commonly exhibit a vigorous state of health. We civilised men, on the other hand, do our utmost to check the process of elimination; we build asylums for the imbecile, the maimed, and the sick; we institute poor-laws; and our medical men exert their utmost skill to save the life of every one to the last moment. There is reason to believe that vaccination has preserved thousands, who from a weak constitution would formerly have succumbed to small-pox. Thus the weak members of civilised societies propagate their kind. No one who has attended to the breeding of domestic animals will doubt that this must be highly injurious to the race of man. It is surprising how soon a want of care, or care wrongly directed, leads to the degeneration of a domestic race; but excepting in the case of man himself, hardly any one is so ignorant as to allow his worst animals to breed.

Darwin himself practiced selective breeding. In hopes of maintaining the “purity” of his seed, Darwin married the youngest granddaughter of his maternal father. The results of this inbreeding project were disastrous. Three of his six sons were chronically ill and regarded as “semi-invalids.” His last son, Charles Jr., was born retarded and died only nineteen months after birth. Two of his daughters also died at very young ages and his oldest girl, Henrietta, suffered a serious breakdown at fifteen. No doubt, the company that Darwin kept inspired such experimentation in selective breeding. Surrounded by technocrats, Freemasons, oligarchical progenies, and other individuals of an elitist pedigree, Darwin was inculcated into many of the morally bankrupt practices of the ruling class. Darwin’s own theories were designed to legitimize this sordid tradition. Of course, Darwin never openly advocated medical sterilization, but that’s only because those eugenical methods had yet to be developed. Given his woeful assessment of races that he believed constituted “lesser stock,” Darwin would have had little objection to many of the practices of the later eugenicists.

In regards to the so-called “evidence” for evolution, all that Darwinism has ever been able to demonstrate is adaptations and variations within species. Darwinism has never been able to demonstrate speciation. Moreover, the theory contradicts itself. On one hand, it represents an open rejection of any teleological Weltanschauungs. On the other hand, it presents processes and mechanisms that imply some teleological elements at work. Darwin himself always invoked anthropic attributions when speaking in regards to nature. Lyell gently rebuked Darwin for these anthropomorphic proclivities. Today, neo-Darwinians like Richard Dawkins proclaim, “Nothing happens by accident in evolution.” Gee, statements like these sound awfully teleological!

In regards to the concepts of “evolution” and “spirituality” co-existing, I think we have already seen such a synthesis. It was called Theosophy and it was one of the underpinning religions of Nazi occultism. Bear in mind that any theory of progressive biological development is going to be hierarchical in nature. Invariably, this implies a political doctrine that is inherently elitist. Ernst Haeckel, Hitler’s mentor in social Darwinism, correctly observed that Darwinian natural selection was “aristocratic in the strictest sense of the word.” The addition of a spiritual dimension merely provides a neo-Gnostic rationale for violent political activism and the Utopian hubris that humanity itself will immanentize the Eschaton.

Those who want a comprehensive overview of eugenics and evolutionary ethics should check out Richard Weikart’s seminal book, From Darwin to Hitler: Evolutionary Ethics, Eugenics, and Racism in Germany. On November 15, 2004, Weikart delivered an outstanding lecture at UC in Santa Barbara, which can be viewed at the following URL.

MAD: And very interesting that at roughly the same time as the sprouting up of the Theosophical Movement, we also have the emergence of groups like the Yale Skull and Bones Society, or the Bohemian Grove, both of these tying into far elder groups and cults coming out of Germany and parts of the Middle East. Which further connects into the indoctrination of the proclaimed “New Age” movement, endorsed by Blavatsky, Crowley, Cayce, Fortune, and on and on. However, just because racist and ill-intentioned people were the first to promote these theories of evolution and the synthesis between Spirituality and Science, does not necessarily mean that the information itself is completely invalid. It is in extremism either way where we find the problems, and we should try to seek that harmonious middle ground where we can logically examine the evidence, and try to rectify past mistakes. I don’t see science and religion itself to be the enemy, rather who is controlling and manipulating these factions for their own benefit.

In terms of Darwin and evolution, I tend to believe that the implications of evolution, as well as eugenics, was already known within many scientific and genealogical circles for many hundreds, if not thousands of years before Darwin’s version of these theories. It was only a matter of time before someone brought forth ‘evolutionary’ sciences to the masses, and the idea is so obvious and observable, at least on finite levels, that it might have been the masses, not the socio-scientists, who began promoting the concepts of adaptation and natural progression on a species to species scale. As with everything, the “Illuminati” often take obvious truths, put their own spin on it, and claim that it was their idea in the first place.

While highly influential, do you believe that the Freemasons are themselves somewhat subordinate to higher authorities who have always been pulling their strings? Religious, political and corporate powers for instance. Are the Freemasons, in the totality of their organization, merely scapegoats and middle-men to more powerful groups and organizations?

Paul: We don’t subscribe to monolithic conspiracy theories. People need to dislodge their brains from the Ian Fleming idea that sitting behind this whole thing is Donald Pleasance stroking a cat. The global oligarchical establishment is a network based on the precepts of elitism. It allows elites to consolidate their power and interface with other elites that share common goals. That being said, there is a lot of factionalism involved. Old money hates new money, and old dynasties look at new ones as intrusive “Johnny-come-lately” prototypes. Carl Oglesby captured the situation pretty accurately in his book The Yankee and Cowboy War.

Freemasonry’s role in this arrangement is problematic. Some lodges are elitist conduits, others are not. Some subscribe to the occult ideas that make up the power elite’s religion, others could really care less about it.

There are lodges that had a period where they were quite active in deep political practices and covert politics, but then, later on, went dormant. Some lodges remain little more than fraternal lodges, while others become temples of religion and/or part of the deep political system. It is a mixed bag.

MAD: As we’ve recently passed the 10 year anniversary concerning the strange suicides of the Heaven’s Gate cult, I’d like to bring up another detailed and well researched article entitled MJ-12: The Technocratic Thread, which covers the gamut of what we consider to be “UFO Cults”, and the sociological methods by which to institute a technocratic dictatorship based upon such longstanding New Age ideals as extraterrestrial contact and alien visitation. In particular this impressive piece discusses the mysterious Majestic Twelve Documents, which claim to pertain to decade’s worth of communication between alien races from other planets, and the governments of Earth.

The MJ-12 documents portray just such a state of affairs. Whether authentic or phony, the purported Majestic group represents the technocratic conception of totalitarianism. Its alleged members constitute a coterie of policy professionals. Yet, most UFO researchers fail to identify this thematic thread of technocratic thought. Preoccupied with aliens and flying saucers, Ufologists overlook the technocratic implications of the MJ-12 documents. Interestingly enough, many Ufologists do not even object to the notion of policy professionals circumventing America’s democratic processes and presiding over decision-making. Instead, they merely object to the obscurantism surrounding such cults of expertise. Evidently, some Ufologists do not fear authoritarianism. They only fear secrecy, which, ironically, is a natural correlative of authoritarianism.

This question is a bit off the beaten path in regards to your article, but briefly keeping on the subject of the Heaven’s Gate cult. Is there a likely possibility that groups such as Heaven’s Gate, or even Jim Jones, David Koresh or Charlie Manson, might have started off as government mind control projects which outgrew their usefulness? This thread could further run into political assassinations, or the manufacturing of events such as OK City, Columbine, or even 911. How deep to you see the rabbit hole going in regards to mind control and the cult connection?

Paul: The excellent investigative researcher Daniel Hopsicker has revealed that the 39 members of the Heaven’s Gate cult that committed suicide were staying at the mansion of Sam Koutchesfahani. Koutchesfahani was a retainer for the Shah of Iran, an arms dealer and an informant for the San Diego FBI at the time of the cult suicide. We also know that the FBI was running an Operation Heaven’s Gate in the San Diego area. To say this is all coincidence is to strain credulity. That whole cult suicide had many of the trademarks of a government mind control operation.

Jim Jones is an even more profound example. At a very young age, Jones had hooked up with a man named Dan Mitrione. Mitrione was a Navy veteran who became part of the Richmond Police Department. He would later go to work for the CIA under a cover of working for the Agency of International Development (USAID). After a U.S.-sponsored coup led to Goulart’s ouster in Brazil, Mitrione went to work there for the CIA teaching torture techniques to Brazilian police. I believe Mitrione was Jones’ CIA handler and probably taught Jones the advanced hypnosis techniques he used on his followers. Congressman Leo Ryan believed Jones to be a CIA agent. Ryan’s daughter even filed a lawsuit that named Jones as a CIA operative. But, the whole thing was covered up with what was labeled “mass suicide.” Personally, I am not convinced. National Security Advisor Zbigniew Brzezinski ordered the bodies at Jonestown stripped of all personal identification. Investigative reporter Joseph Trento has revealed that Brzezinski was recruited by Ted Shackley as a CIA asset during his years as a young Polish college student. Guyana’s chief medical examiner, Dr. Leslie Mootoo conducted a medical examination on the bodies at Jonestown and concluded that more than 700 of the people were murdered.

Manson was connected in several ways to the Process Church of Final Judgment. According to David Berkowitz, one of the Son of Sam killers who were associated with Process, the cult provided drugs for sex parties held at Roy Cohn’s Connecticut residence. Before his death from AIDS, Cohn admitted in an interview with former NYPD detective James Rothstein that he was running a sex/blackmail operation that employed children as a means of compromising pedophile politicians. CIA agent Edwin Wilson continued the very same operation. Sex and drugs are often employed to program people through abuse. It goes on and on. People wanting to know more might want to check out part two of our article “The Deep Politics of God: The CNP, Dominionism, and the Ted Haggard Scandal.”

I just went the long way around the barn to basically say that the rabbit hole in regards to intelligence mind control projects and their connection to cults goes very deep. Probably deeper than we will ever know.

MAD: Regarding Jim Jones, he was also connected to the Disciples of Christ organization, and had many connections with high-up members of the John Birch Society. Unfortunately, I completely agree with you on this. We could have a 3 part discussion just on the connections of mind control cults, and the probable connections of X to Y. Continuing with your article on UFO’s and the implementation of a New Age technocracy based on deception and social engineering:

Yet, Ufologists and others associated with the UFO phenomenon (e.g., contactees, abductees, and cults) are becoming increasingly agreeable towards anti-democratic paradigms, particularly Technocracy. Thus, the MJ-12 documents have proven instrumental in the promulgation of the technocratic paradigm. It is the thesis of this essay that the enshrinement of the technocratic paradigm was the intended corollary underlying the revelation of Majestic 12 documents. The specific variety of Technocracy towards which the UFO community is gravitating is the scientistic theocratic order of a sociocracy.

In their own way, the MJ-12 documents are like the Protocols Of The Elders Of Zion to the Ufology community. We cannot firmly confirm or deny the authenticity of either, yet we would be foolish to completely toss them aside without considering the deeper implications expressed within both of these puzzling and detailed texts. Would you care to further elaborate on your personal thoughts regarding the MJ-12 documents, as well as reiterate some of your research on how “The Alien Agenda” ties into the establishment of a scientific dictatorship?

Phillip: The MJ-12 documents are conspicuously technocratic in character. When they were released, they helped to promulgate a technocratic paradigm. Notice that most Ufologists did not take issue with the idea of a coterie of policy professionals making all of the decisions concerning the UFO phenomenon. All that they objected to was the obscurantism surrounding such a cult of expertise. The MJ-12 documents helped to ease the public conscious into the technocratic paradigm.

Moreover, the MJ-12 documents also affirmed the beliefs of UFO cultists, who are actively engaged in religious engineering. The religion that is being engineered by these cults is inherently technocratic, scientistic (i.e., derivative of the religion of scientism), and neo-Gnostic in character. William Sims Bainbridge, who is a sociologist and a member of the National Science Foundation, has encouraged social scientists to begin to actively experiment with UFO cults in religious engineering. He believes that, through such experimentation, social scientists could sculpt a religion that will facilitate the rise of a galactic civilization. Bainbridge calls the scientistic theocracy that he wishes to see presiding over this future society the “Church of God Galactic.” Bainbridge contends that one of the most promising models for this “Church” is Scientology. Of course, Scientology founder L. Ron Hubbard was a disciple of the notorious occultist Aleister Crowley. While Scientologists correctly identify the more dubious elements of psychiatry and the field’s history of psychocognitive manipulation, Scientology merely offers another form of brainwashing as an alternative. Given his background as a sociologist, it comes as little surprise that Bainbridge would look upon Scientology so favorably. The social sciences have always been technocratic in nature, a reality underscored by their origins with August Comte and Henri de Saint-Simon.

Bainbridge’s mandate for social scientists to become religious engineers reiterates the Comtean concept of a sociocracy. A sociocracy is a theocracy where social scientists act as the dominant priesthood. The religion that this priesthood sculpts is inherently anthropocentric, venerating “Humanity” as symbolically represented through the “Grand Being.” Such an anthropocentric religion is really nothing new. History is replete with doctrines of the emergent deity of “Man.” Nietzsche’s Ubermensch, Hegel’s Weltgeist, and Freemasonry’s “Great Architect of the Universe” are just a few cases in point. Today, UFO cults proffer an exotheological Christ who could help man unlock his purported intrinsic divinity. Just like the ancient Mystery religion that originated in Babylon and Egypt roughly 6000 years ago, the UFO religion promises the same thing… apotheosis. Of course, someone else made the same promise in man’s murky past. It was a serpent whispering, “…ye shall be as gods…” Conceptually and philosophically, this is a slippery slope leading to Luciferianism, which is the ruling class religion. Thus, you begin to see how religious engineering with UFO cults is instrumental in the mass inculcation of people into the ruling class religion.

In a sense, the UFO community is already becoming a quasi-sociocracy. Intelligence operatives like Richard Doty have vigorously promoted the concept of an exotheological Christ. Doty’s neo-messianic assertions enjoyed mass dissemination through Ufologists like Linda Moulton Howe. Intelligence operatives employ psychological warfare strategies that originated with OSS social scientists. So, in a sense, social scientists have already acted as the priesthood for a new religious consciousness and an emergent theocratic order that is sociocratic in nature.

MAD: Staying on the topic of the MJ-12 documents for a moment if we could, do you have any further information you might share regarding the enigmatic figure of VANNEVAR BUSH, who has not only been named as being the head member of such infamous governmental groups as the Majestic Twelve and PROJECT BLUEBOOK, but is also credited as being one of the main founders of the Human Genome Project, as well as a variety of secretive Pentagon projects which led to DARPA NET, and eventually gave birth to our modern day Internet and the World Wide Web. He’s credited by many as being the ‘Father of the Information Age’ and is well known for his involvement in the MANHATTAN PROJECT. Undoubtedly a fascinating individual (and incidentally a 33rd degree Freemason), have you run across Vannevar Bush very often in your research, and would you agree that he is a prominent figure not only within the realm of UFO’s, but also within the territory of genetic modification and eugenics?

Paul: Vannevar Bush should be admired for his opposition to Nazis that were being imported under Operation Paperclip. He correctly saw them as a threat to democracy. But, Bush had a shady side as well. He was one of the primary architects of the military-industrial complex. According to Frank Fischer, the military-industrial complex was central to the technocratic restructuring. He was also a proponent of technocratic democracy. That is quite different from Jeffersonian democracy. Technocratic democracy was described by H.G. Wells. He stated that the “educated population” should be allowed to vote. In other words, democracy is consolidated in the hands of policy professionals, not the common people. So a cult of expertise directs society and manipulates social change. That is hardly what you or I have in mind when we think about the democratic institutions that are supposed to be part of our Republic. The Founding Fathers established a system where the common person would receive a say in how their nation was ran.

Phillip: You will consistently find technocratic themes surfacing with Ufology. Again, you can see the socially and politically expedient purposes that the UFO community is serving.

MAD: Regarding the UFO phenomenon, including all the facets that come along with this research (sightings, abductions, cattle mutilation, crop circles, etc), what is your purveying outlook on what’s really occurring with all of these diverse reports? Is it a case of mass delusion and hysteria, or something else? While it’s not easily definable, and there are ample hoaxes, it would be hard to deny that some of this footage and these accounts definitely have some elements of truth to them. Exactly what that truth entails is still up for debate.

Phillip: Ultimately, we don’t know. There is a sizable body of evidence to support the contention that UFOs are part of a manipulation. Given the technocratic character of many individuals in the UFO community, this contention seems stronger. However, we cannot say for certain. There have been many compelling arguments made by those in the Christian Ufology camp. Michael Heiser and Chuck Missler are two cases in point. But, it is still difficult to say. Personally, Paul and I find the Christian Ufology somewhat irksome. They have made a virtual doctrine of the idea that the Watchers and UFO occupants are one in the same. Yes, there are some interesting synchronicities. But, it is still a stretch to state with absolute certainty that UFOs are the Watchers from the ‘Book of Enoch’. We don’t reject the possibility, but many people have embraced this thesis as the sole explanation.

MAD: To open up a mandatory can of worms, the next question is rather simple though has far reaching implications. What are some of your thoughts on the structure of political Zionism and how this plays into the creation of globalization and a one world government? Do you think, for instance, that Zionism played a prominent role, either directly or indirectly, in the formation of the NAZI Party, and the heinous events of WWII?

Paul: Probably the best way to start off such a discussion is with a disclaimer. Nothing I say here should be taken as a broad, general, sweeping condemnation of the Jewish people. The purpose of sharing this information is to simply point out that the Power Elite and secret societies that act as oligarchical conduits have always sought to insert themselves into legitimate religious sects. The end result has been communist, fascist, and other subversive constructs entrenched in all or most religious movements. Hence, the duality we find in almost all religions. There is a dark side to almost all major religions. That dark side is almost always the result of some subversive influence. So, what the student of elite criminality, elite deviance, parapolitics, and deep politics has to do is learn to follow key power players from certain ethnic backgrounds without making blanket accusations.

The Israeli-Russian mafia is a prime example of what I am trying to say. This group is heavily involved in the diamond monopoly which, in turn, is involved in international terrorism. So, you cannot avoid examining the Israeli-Russian mafia if you are ever going to understand both the diamond monoploy and terrorism. The key is to not, in the process, label everyone named Sheingross or Goldstein a card-carrying member of organized crime rackets. That would be not only counter-productive, but extremely stupid.

With the dark side of Zionism, I always look to the influence of the Frankist movement, which may have been a front for Illuminists that were predominantly gentiles. The Frankist were, in fact, very irreligious, self-loathing Jews who believed that one achieves purity through carnal excesses and sin. Thus, we find Frankists practicing sex orgies and entertaining the idea of destroying both traditional Christianity and traditional Judaism. In other words, the traditionalist path was to be replaced with moral anarchy that would lead to social anarchy. Such ideas are foreign to orthodox Jews. As a matter of fact, orthodox Jewish rabbis referred to the Frankist leaders in Berlin as being comparable to the “whore of Samson.” But while such ideas were foreign to orthodox Jews, they were not strange or alien to the predominantly Gentile Illuminist movement. In his writings, Illuminist founder Adam Weishaupt called for the abolition of all ordered forms of religion. We did an interview over the subject of the Frankist on ‘Sphinx Radio’, which readers can listen to at the following URL.

Frank made outrageous messianic claims that gained him a lot of negative attention. He was eventually convicted of heresy and imprisoned. Unfortunately, this only came after the Frankists had triggered an anti-Jewish reaction through their nefarious activities. This anti-Jewish reaction allowed the elite to conduct what is known in satanic and occult circles as a “Blood Libel.” A “Blood Libel” is essentially when elites practicing occultism and satanism blame their activities on a despised minority.

For instance, many anti-Semitic researchers claim that the ‘Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion’ were written over a course of three days at a Zionist conference. The argument falls apart under scrutiny. There were 197 Jewish delegates to the Zionist conference in question. You could find among this group both orthodox and liberal thinkers. You could even find anarchists. The idea that you could get 197 diverse individuals to agree upon and put to paper a central agenda in three days time strains credulity. The time span becomes even more problematic when you consider how elaborate the Protocols are. A lot of thought was put into this document. The arranging, organizing, and planning of something so detailed would take longer than three days.

Another problem is the presence of a lot of Masonic terms in what is supposed to be a Jewish document. The document is signed by “representatives of Sion of the 33rd degree.” Judaism has no 33rd degree. It has no degrees at all. It is not a religion that practices degrees of initiation. Freemasonry, however, does practice degrees of initiation and has a 33rd degree.

It is also interesting that the Chicago Daily News edition of June 23, 1920 reported that Czar Nicholas the 2nd’s wife, Alexandra, wrote on April 7, 1918: “Nicholas read to us the protocols of the freemason.” So what we see developing here is a picture of secret societies and subversive movements scapegoating the Jewish people. And recall that the secret societies themselves are largely elite conduits.

Phillip: I am really careful when approaching the topic of Zionism. While it is definitely a flawed political movement, it is by no means any sort of enclave of monolithic thought. There are many anti-Jewish racists who cite Zionism as evidence for some sort of “Jewish conspiracy.” The truth is that, although fraught by the corruption endemic to just about all political movements, Zionism is neither an unerring or monolithic conspiracy. There are several strains of thought that populate Zionism, all of which I believe are problematic. Critiques of Zionism are certainly justifiable, especially in light of the racial disparities between Jews and Palestinians stemming from Israel’s implementation of Zionist policies. However, this does not constitute some malevolent “Jewish conspiracy.”

As for Judaism, I believe it is important for us as Christians to recognize the shadows and types in the Torah. The Old Testament is replete with portraits of the coming Messiah. Discerning this thematic thread really allows us to see the divine inspiration in the writing of the Scriptures.

MAD: Likewise, how do you feel The Vatican is connected to this whole orchestration of events? Some of the most prolific and prominent scientific minds of the past four centuries have come out of the Jesuit Order (Society of Jesus), and we’d be apt to raise a suspicious eyebrow at any group which claims three billion devout followers.

Paul: The Illuminati was responsible for systematizing the means and methods that constitute deep politics. So, deep political practices were indirectly influenced by the Jesuits, a contention reinforced by the fact that Illuminist founder Adam Weishaupt heavily borrowed from the Jesuits. That being said, there is a lot of nonsense making rounds through the internet rumor mills out there claiming that the Illuminati was controlled from the Vatican. This junk gets taxing on me and I really have no patience for it because it is a demonstration of very bad research. I say that as a non-Catholic who still believes that the Vatican has more than its share of corruption.

The current king of this myth is Eric Jon Phelps. Phelps’ contentions are merely a rehash of the theories of Alberto Rivera, a man who claimed to be a former Jesuit. Rivera had been involved in a number of criminal activities including writing bad checks, fraud, and credit card theft. He claimed to be collecting money for a Spanish college, but the college never received any of the money he was collecting. At one point, he said he left the Catholic Church in 1952. But, then he changed his tune and said he left in 1967. He claimed to have received three doctorates, but his own chronology does not allow for the time required to earn any of those. He later admitted to having received those doctorates from a diploma mill in Colorado. He said he had children with his wife at a time when his own chronology holds he was a celibate monk. Rivera was a con-artist and he acts as the foundation of Phelp’s ideas.

Truth be told, Adam Weishaupt drew a lot from the Jesuits because he was trained by them and admired their system of hierarchical observation. But, he hated the Jesuits and wanted to destroy them with their own methods.

Phillip: The ideational continuum that runs from the Jesuits to Weishaupt’s infamous Illuminati is most paradoxical. As Michel Foucault observed in ‘Discipline and Punish’, the Jesuits employed an early form of panopticism in their model colleges. Weishaupt’s tutelage by Jesuits exposed him to panopticism, and allowed him to develop his own system of hierarchical observation known as Seelenspionage. This system was slightly more complex than the Jesuit system. The Jesuits relied heavily upon spatial and chronemic regulation for the efficient maintenance of power among adherents.

Weishaupt’s system sought to move beyond the mere arrangement of spatial unities and rigid timetabling. Weishaupt employed a system of semiotic manipulation. Seelenspionage involved the close examination of observable behavior in order to gain “access to the subject’s soul.” However, Weishaupt’s system of panopticism was premised upon physicalistic assumptions, which are fraught by a ridiculously oversimplified schematicism. Such a paint-by-numbers approach is reminiscent of Delsartes’ method of acting, which contended that truly great performers could mimic all the proper gestures to communicate the emotional state of their characters.

What is paradoxical about the ideational continuum binding the Jesuits with the Illuminati is Weishaupt’s heritage as an Enlightenment thinker. The Enlightenment harbored an overwhelming disdain for the Jesuits and considered them to be the “shock troops” of the Vatican.

MAD: I myself am not a “follower” of Eric Phelp’s work, and have noticed that most of the anti-Jesuit theories indeed do originate from a rather extremist Protestant viewpoint. That being said, I still find it hard to deny the power and influence of the Jesuit Order, and the close ties that most political institutions share with the Catholic Church. Keeping on the subject of the Catholic Church for a moment, one of the areas of your book which I have always found fascinating and rather dubious, is the probable relationship of Martin Luther to that of various secret societies of the day, in particular the Rosicrucian Order.

Page 298 of your book states:

Luther’s involvement in the Rosicrucian Order made him an ideal instrument of secret societies. However, occultism was not the only belief system benefiting from the Reformation. Elitism and oligarchy would also receive a boost from Luther’s activities. It should be recalled that many of the secret societies supporting Luther acted as elite conduits. While Luther was already ideologically aligned with the elites in many ways, he officially became their property in 1521. In this year, the papacy’s secular representative, Emperor Charles V, summoned Luther to a Diet at the city known as Worms. Luther was to defend himself against a papal decree that excommunicated him from the Church.

Could you give us a little bit of a background on the Rosicrucian influence of Luther or vice versa, and how Protestantism and Calvinism play into the whole globalization conspiracy? As with the Freemasons, or even the much hyped Bavarian Illuminati, do you see this all stemming from a game of controlled opposition which is working in conjunction towards the same budding Scientific Dictatorship?

Phillip: I think that the Rosicrucian influence upon Martin Luther is made evident by his adoption of nominalism. Nominalism rejected man’s innate ability of abstraction. In turn, the rejection of abstraction leads to the rejection of all universal principles. With universal principles relegated to the realm of metaphysical fantasy, the objective character of God is obliterated. The slippery slope reaches its nadir with the epistemological enthronement of all that is quantifiably demonstrable. Metaphysical primacy is bestowed upon the ontological plane of the physical universe. Conceptually and philosophically, the nominalist is predisposed to more occult strains of thought, like pantheism and immanentism. Not surprisingly, the liberal movement within Protestant theology would proffer theories of divine immanence. The doctrines of emergent deities that originated in Babylon and Egypt found continuity in Luther’s nominalism.

Not only did Luther’s nominalism spiritually compromise Christianity, but it also led to widespread superstition. With the objective character of God rejected, many medieval peasants made the anthropic attribution of the Black Death to the will of God. You see similar anthropic attributions made today by the radical environmentalist movement. Just as medieval peasants credited God with the plague, modern radical environmentalists credit the pagan deity of Mother Earth with hurricanes and other natural disasters. At any rate, the superstition that stemmed from Luther’s adoption of nominalism would provide the Enlightenment with a seemingly stronger case against theistic faiths. And, out of the Enlightenment would emerge the conceptual template for many modern scientific dictatorships.

MAD: The Order of the Rosy Cross in general, based largely on alchemical ideals of transfiguration (man into god), how influential do you think this society has been over the past few hundred years, and do you believe that they still hold sway over religious and political decisions in the modern era? Would you say without much doubt that the Reformation was indeed based around Rosicrucian influence and manipulation?

Phillip: Again, I think the Rosicrucian influence seems to be largely an epistemological one. Radical empiricism and the preoccupation with quantifiable entities were hallmarks of Rosicrucian thinking. Some researchers believe that Rosicrucian ideas largely shaped Masonic thought. This contention seems to be reinforced by the radical empiricism and scientism of the early British Royal Society Freemasons. It is also strengthened by the view that the Royal Society represented the tangible enactment of Bacon’s “Invisible College.”

How does this epistemological continuity contribute to the emergence of modern scientific dictatorships? Saint-Simon, the mentor of August Comte, would extend radical empiricism to the whole of the social body. In so doing, he would develop the physiological or organic interpretation of the state. Comte, who is considered the founding father of sociology, would reiterate this concept as the “social organism.” The political doctrine implied by this epistemology is collectivism, which was the commonly held doctrine of both communists and fascists.

Collectivism permeates the very etymology of “communism” and “fascism.” The appellation of “communism” comes from the Latin root communis, which means “group” living. Fascism is a derivation of the Italian word fascio, which is translated as “bundle” or “group.” Both fascism and communism are forms of coercive group living, or more succinctly, collectivism. The only substantial difference between the two is fascism’s limited observance of private property rights, which is ostensible at best given its susceptibility to rigid government regulation. In 1933, Hitler candidly admitted to Hermann Rauschning that “the whole of National Socialism is based on Marx.” Nazism (a variant of fascism) is derivative of Marxism. The historical conflicts between communism and fascism were merely feuds between two socialist totalitarian camps, not two dichotomously related forces.

At any rate, these modern scientific dictatorships find their conceptual and philosophical origins with the epistemology of occult organizations like Rosicrucianism and Freemasonry. I think that pretty succinctly encapsulates the real influence of Rosicrucianism on modern history.

MAD: In your article entitled Luciferianism: The Religion Of Apotheosis, you state the following:

Luciferianism is the product of religious engineering, which sociologist William Sims Bainbridge defines as “the conscious, systematic, skilled creation of a new religion” (“New Religions, Science, and Secularization,” no pagination). In actuality, this is a tradition that even precedes Bainbridge. It has been the practice of Freemasonry for years. It was also the practice of Masonry’s religious and philosophical progenitors, the ancient pagan Mystery cults. The inner doctrines of the Mesopotamian secret societies provided the theological foundations for the Christian and Judaic heresies, Kabbalism and Gnosticism. A historical corollary of this popularization has been the rise of several cults and mass movements, exemplified by the various mystical sects and gurus of the sixties counterculture. The metastasis of Luciferian thinking continues to this very day.

Would you agree that the whole “occult” system, or even religion itself, was basically manufactured for the sole purpose of “turning Man into God”, much in the same way Jesus is said to have turned water into wine? And more specifically, is this solely for the benefit of EL-ite factions, though presented as if it is for the exaltation of all humanity? Could you briefly elaborate on your perceptions of Luciferianism, and how this is connected to the mechanizations of Scientism?

Phillip: Throughout history, religions have been somewhat evenly divided into two varieties. There are theocentric religions, which acknowledge the centrality of a transcendent God to the redemption and perfection of man. Then, there are anthropocentric religions, which attempt to supplant God and exalt man as the sole source of his salvation. Self-salvation is the core doctrine of Gnosticism, which is an outgrowth of the older Mystery religions that originated in Mesopotamia roughly 6,000 years ago.

The religion of Gnosticism would be codified as revolutionary doctrine with the Enlightenment. Although the Enlightenment was proffered as an alternative to religion, it was nothing more than the 18th century incarnation of the older anthropocentric religions of occult antiquity. The sacred text of the Enlightenment was Diderot’s Encyclopedia. Interestingly enough, this secular bible was adorned with the symbols of occult Freemasonry and even an illustration of Lucifer! Enlightenment humanism was essentially Luciferianism disseminated on the popular level as a new secular gospel. Like many of the occult secret societies that inspired it, the Enlightenment venerated Lucifer as a symbol of man’s potential to be apotheosized through his own cognitive powers. Following the Gnostic practice of immanentization, Enlightenment thinkers re-conceptualized Lucifer as an object of immanent experience. No longer was the nachash (“shining one”) a spiritual entity. Now, he was purely an immanent force that incarnated itself through human reason.

Astute readers will recognize the parallels between this new secular mythology and the radically revised Eden account in ‘The Hypostasis of the Archons’. While the Enlightenment rejected the truth of the Scriptures, it still exhibited an Edenic motif of its own. The new Eden was the earthly paradise of social democracy. The ontological plane of the physical universe constituted the totality of reality itself and, through gnosis, it could be alchemically transformed into heaven. Working in conjunction with man’s apotheosized reason, progress would re-sculpt nature into an imperishable state of Utopian permanence. Herein was the Enlightenment’s ultimate religious vision… Eden reconstituted without God. Because it acted as an instrument of human reason, science was considered integral to the realization of this vision. Enlightenment thinkers would advocate the universal imposition of science upon all fields of inquiry. Of course, given its epistemological constraints, science can only deal with phenomena that are empirically and quantifiably demonstrable. So, the Enlightenment theoreticians ignored all concepts, principles, and values that defied quantification. Supra-sensible and supra-rational entities were thoroughly rejected. Science’s empirical and quantifiable observations were dogmatically upheld as absolute truth. What was initially an instrument for the broadening of human understanding had been transformed into a form of epistemological imperialism. This is scientism.

Of course, the Enlightenment would reach its nadir with the French Revolution, which was literally a neo-Gnostic jihad to establish an anthropocentric theocracy. The French Revolution provided the model for every modern socialist revolutionary movement. All sociopolitical Utopianism has been neo-Gnostic in character.

Communists, fascists, and other socialist sects have always endeavored to immanentize the Eschaton. All of these neo-Gnostic crusades found pseudo-scientific legitimacy in the modern myth of Darwinism, which dignified the Gnostic doctrine of self-salvation with the metaphysical claim of self-creation. Thus, we have the birth of modern scientific dictatorships. Thematically underpinning this new theocratic order has always been the anthropocentric hubris that man would be become a god. This conceit merely reiterates Lucifer’s aspiration to become like the Most High. The lie of the serpent lives on.

MAD: In this same article you go on to state:

He makes man aware of his own innate divinity and promises to unlock the god within us all. This theme of apotheosis underpinned both Gnosticism and the pagan Mystery religions. While Gnosticism’s origins with the Ancient Mystery cults remains a source of contention amongst scholars, its promises of liberation from humanity’s material side is strongly akin to the old pagan Mystery’s variety of “psychic therapy”. In addition, the Ancient Mystery religion promised the opportunity to erase the curse of mortality by direct encounter with the patron deity, or in many instances by actually undergoing an apotheosis, a transfiguration of human into divine.

If this is true, and I largely agree with you about the role of Luciferianism in relation to the occult traditions and mystery teachings, where do you think it all went wrong? Is the key component and core for humanities long enduring strife primarily because the suffering of the many goes to benefit the prosperity of the few at the top of this classist caste system and pyramid of control?

Phillip: It all goes wrong with anthropocentricism. When belief systems begin to venerate the cognitive powers of man as the chief facilitator of his salvation, all of the ingredients are in place for the enshrinement of a self-proclaimed “cognitive elite.” Priests used to fill this role. Now, it is institutionally accredited science that acts as the dominant ecclesiastical authority. Whether theocratic or technocratic, such systems are always authoritarian in character.

On the other hand, theocentric belief systems are self-correcting. Given their acknowledgement of the objective character of God, theocentric belief systems lift the countenance of man towards the heavens. With God acting as the only standard for truth, the voracity of any man-made edicts is evaluated according to a much higher standard. Any system that is inconsistent with the objective standard of truth provided by God is eventually jettisoned.

MAD: To change the subject, though still regarding related material. What does your research indicate about the possible future of RFID (Radio Frequency Identification), and why should people be so concerned about this technology getting out of control?

Phillip: RFID holds the potential to technologically augment already existing systems of panopticism. Emergent technologies like RFID could facilitate the rise of what Charles Stross calls a Panopticon Singularity. The Panopticon Singularity is a carceral state made absolute in its power by technology. Of course, there are other technologies that contributing to the rise of this new, hi-tech version of Jeremy Bentham’s panoptic tower. PROMIS software, Echelon, and Carnivore are just a few more examples.

That being said, I think that a lot of RFID research is still pretty speculative. To be sure, we mustn’t overlook RFID’s potential panoptic applications. However, I have also heard some rather sensationalistic claims about RFID, the majority of which are being promoted by tabloid-style journalists of the Alex Jones pedigree. So, serious researchers must pry a lot of fiction away from fact.

MAD: It’s a bit of a touchy subject, and we’ve had some discussion on this matter in private over the past couple of days, but what are your feelings on the state of the so-called “911 Truth Movement”? Where do you think this is heading, and will we ever get to the truth about the events and subsequential cover-up that transpired on September 11th, 2001? Do you think that the ‘Truth Movement’, for all intents and purposes, has kinda been stuck at the exact same spot for the past 5 years? Do you see corporate and political manipulation at work here?

Paul: The 9/11 “Truth” movement is very taxing on my patience. It is so obvious to anyone with proper research methods that most of these guys are hacks. Instead of following people and money trails, these guys concoct and invent things to believe. For example, the demolitions in the building scenario. The buildings’ collapses registered on the Richter Scale. The collapses came in on the scale at 2.1 and 2.3. Having lived in southern California from the time I was in fifth grade to my second year of high school, I am quite familiar with the Richter scale. You have to be out there because of all the seismic activity. The Richter scale is used to measure the magnitude of an earthquake. Put this into perspective. The buildings became the epicenters for earthquakes when those planes struck. You don’t think that will cause a building’s structural integrity to be compromised?

Furthermore, if there were demos in those buildings, riddle me this: when did all the reverse architectural work occur? That would have been a massive undertaking. It would have called for pulling out beams and walls. That cannot be done without catching people’s attention. Nobody witnessed such activity in the days before 9/11.

The Pentagon theory is even more ridiculous. First of all, this theory began with Thierry Meyssan, a French man that didn’t even travel to the States to investigate the crime scene. Instead, he wrote his book in France. Second of all, 9/11 “truthers” contend that the lack of debris at the impact sight means there was no plane. This begs the question that Von Kleist and Meyssan feel they have no responsibility to explain: what happened to American Airlines flight 77?

Airliners such as flight 77 are made from aluminum. What happens when an aluminum aircraft smacks into a concrete structure at high speeds? It vaporizes. It is converted into aluminum oxide. Pure and simple.

Finally, activist Penny Schoner has collected 86 testimonies of people who actually saw the plane hit the Pentagon. Morning traffic on I-395 saw the plane hit. Are all these people part of the cover-up? Give me a break.

The 9/11 Truth movement is a disinformation machine meant to provide pseudo-intellectuals like Gerald Posner and Daniel Pipes with straw men to knock down. A major contributor to the movement is John Gray, writer of the Men Are From Mars, Women Are From Venus . His whole schtick is owned part and parcel by the Iran/Contra arms dealer Adnan Kashoggi. Kashoggi is still very much tied to the CIA and some neocon elements.

This disinfo operation has worked like a charm. Responsible 9/11 researchers such as Daniel Hopsicker, Sander Hicks, the New American magazine staff, and Indira Singh have largely been ignored. Everyone is busy chasing an Ian Fleming fiction around and letting the trail go cold. And, normal people don’t want anything to do with the whole thing, because the 9/11 truthers present ideas that strain credulity.

9/11 was not an “inside job.” Having known people involved in intelligence and having studied the history and politics of intelligence at college, I can tell you that covert operations do not work that way. Covert ops involve surrogates. 9/11 was the work of what L. Fletcher Prouty called a “secret team.” A secret team is simply a group of people with top security clearances, both in the government and civilians. These people receive intel reports from the NSA, CIA, and other alphabet organizations in the intelligence community. These people are in key positions of influence that allow them to switch off a sizeable portion of the national security apparatus right when it is needed the most.

MAD: While we could “debate” whether or not there were in fact demolitions in the WTC, or what struck the Pentagon, I would absolutely agree with you that “Inside Job” isn’t even a proper term, and it really is more about a “secret team” or what Bush Jr. himself labeled as a “Shadow Government”.

And as per our discussion from previous emails, I would agree with you that demolitions and “no plane” theories are a bit of a diversion, yet there is still something that hasn’t been settled entirely with these debates. Although, I 100% agree with you, that some day down the short road, it may be proven that there were no demolitions, and that a plane did indeed strike the Pentagon, and those revelations would go a long way to discrediting the “911 Truth Movement”, a movement which for all intents and purposes cannot stop talking about Building 7. Rosie O’Donnell recently claimed that building 7 was brought down in order to cover-up information on the Enron scandal and other corporate corruption, and that goes to show you that any “celebrity” can say anything, and a lot of people will believe it just because they love bandwagons.

What people or groups do you think benefited most from the staged 911 disaster? Surely, as Bush Sr. and Jr. both stated, this was a tremendous opportunity to further the implementation of the ‘New World Order’.

Paul: Initially, all of the factions of the Western elite could have benefitted from the attacks. However, it was the neoconservatives that really capitalized on 9/11 and actually developed a virtual monopoly on the topic. This has caused serious divisions within the ranks of the global oligarhical establishment. Many Western elites have actually turned on the neocons. They rightly believe that the neocon model of world order is alienating the elites of China, Russia, and the EU. The neocon script for a new world order calls for the creation of a global American Empire prior to a full-blown world government. This means that Western oligarchs would be the dominant force when the Empire folds into world government. Russia, China, and the EU absolutely refuse to be subordinates or junior partners in the new world order. So they are pulling away and this makes political and economic merger extremely difficult, if not totally impossible.

Currently, Brzezinski seems to be the one leading the charge against the neocons. He is mad because the neocons have moved away from the blueprint he laid out in The Grand Chessboard. The invasion of Afghanistan met Brzezinski’s expectations because that country is part of Eurasia, a geographic area Brzezinski feels America must control if it is to become a global empire. But the invasion of Iraq in 2003 was a deviation from Brzezinski’s blueprint. Iraq is part of the Arabian Peninsula, not Eurasia. So we see some serious oligarchical warfare shaping up. Hopefully, none of us will be hurt in the process.

Actually, while these guys proceed to cannibalize one another, it would be a perfect time for the common people of the America and the world in general to begin a political revolt. That revolt can take many forms. What I want here in America is a peaceful one where the rule of law is reintroduced by forcing the people’s representatives to be receptive to their primary constituents, you and I, once more. The representatives in America’s political system have to learn make the Constitution and the Bill of Rights their standard again. We are the ones who have to tell them to honor the Freedom Documents again. If we did that en mass, imagine the effect it would have.

MAD: We’ve already mentioned the love that both of you have for theater and performing arts. Are their any specific plays or performances that you appreciate the most? Likewise, being musicians, who are some of your favorite bands and composers? Favorite movies? (Sorry if this is turning into a Myspace page.)

Paul: I like any play that allows me as an actor to do something interesting and gives me some real goals to work towards. That’s why David Mamet would probably be the best playwright for me… if it wasn’t for all the profanity. He provides actors with real, physical activities and tangible goals to achieve. He demystifies the whole thing. It was Mickey Rourke who made me want to act. Every performance he puts forward is perfect. I have yet to see him give a weak performance, even in his bad movies.

My favorite bands right now are Crimson Glory, TNT, and Dragonforce. I like progressive metal and power metal. That is the stuff I grew up on and what made me pick up the bass. The songs I have written really draw inspiration from that genre.

I love most of Michael Mann’s movies. I really anticipate Sin-Jin Smyth, if that one ever gets released. I love the Passion of the Christ because it was the first movie about Jesus that one could actually consider a work of art, not some campy schlock like Left Behind.

Phillip: Oh, wow! Where do I begin? Well, in terms of plays, I immensely enjoy the work of David Mamet. His prose is wonderfully idiosyncratic, replete with odd meters and slightly esoteric semiotic undercurrents. In particular, Oleana illustrates with vicious eloquence the function of political correctness in semiotic warfare. The entire play examines the complex interchange between a college professor and his student. As the discourse progresses, we see more and more of the professor’s modes of thought and behavior being criminalized. Allegations of sexual harassment are eventually hurled. Finally, the student demands the removal of the professor’s book from the university library and it becomes apparent that what’s truly at work is intellectual totalitarianism.

Mamet also radically changed my outlook on acting. Initially, I was a Stanislavsky “Method” actor. I followed the same rituals. Emotional memory. Sense memory. Oral interpretation. Substitution. The “Fourth Wall.” I used to employ all of these techniques and all that they would do is frustrate the living crap out of me. My performances were pretty decent, but I found that the Method techniques were actually hindering me. Then, I read Mamet’s ‘True and False’. Basically, Mamet took a battering ram to the Method.

His philosophy of acting is very pragmatic and practical. Instead of attempting to employ virtually worthless exercises in introspection, I started to apply Mamet’s simple and idealistic principles. I owe a debt of gratitude to Mamet because his work rekindled my passion for acting at a time when I was becoming disillusioned.

In terms of favorite actors, I am an enormous fan of Mickey Rourke’s work. Rourke is the modern incarnation of Steve McQueen and Marlon Brandon. His subtlety and vulnerability makes his performances all the more captivating to watch. He fell out of Hollywood’s good graces for a while there. But, thankfully, people are rediscovering Rourke’s talent. I also enjoy Lance Henrikson’s work, especially in the TV show Millennium. I have a sizable catalogue of other acting inspirations, most of which being underrated and slightly obscure talents. These include Brad Dourif, Ted Levine, and the late Donald Pleasance.

As for favorite bands, I have a ton. Enumerating all of them is a daunting task. However, I will name a couple of artists that particularly inspire me as a guitarist. One of the most influential players to shape my approach to the fretboard was Yngwie J. Malmsteem. Initially, my playing was restricted to box pentatonic scales. Then, I heard Yngwie and was blown away. He was so technical and, simultaneously, melodic. I immediately began learning the harmonic minor scale, alternate picking, alternative picking, and sweep picking. Since then, I have immensely enjoyed technical players. Chris Impellitteri, Paul Gilbert, Ronnie LeTekro, Rusty Cooley, Zakk Wylde, Michael Angelo, Doug Aldrich, Reb Beech, George Lynch, John Petrucci… the list goes on and on.

I also enjoy the music of Midnight Syndicate. Their material sounds more like horror film scores, particularly the pulsing compositions of John Carpenter. Midnight Syndicate’s work is like a cerebral theatre, stimulating the imagination with haunting and mysterious soundscapes. I used some of their work in a short horror film that I directed and edited a back in 2002. The film is called Harvest Moon and it stars Paul in the lead role. For anybody who would like to check it out, you can get a copy at www.dre5productions.com. The film has a few visceral highlights, namely an exploding and disappearing cornfield and one angry alien.

As for favorite movies, I have quite a few. I absolutely love The Passion. I don’t think any other film has move beautifully captured the enormity of Christ’s sacrifice for humanity. Many of the past depictions of Jesus’ crucifixion have been somewhat pedestrian and euphemistic. The Passion does not understate Jesus’ suffering in the least. Instead of protecting audiences from the true agony of Christ, this film presents it with brutal honesty. In so doing, Christ’s heroism as man’s redeemer is driven home with manifold force.

I also enjoy many of John Carpenter’s films. Ostensibly, his movies appear to be standard exercises in horror, suspense, and sci-fi storytelling. However, the thematic undercurrents of his films run much deeper. For instance, They Live succinctly captures the essence of semiotic warfare and media manipulation. Carpenter presents this subject in the sci-fi context of an alien invasion story. Carpenter employs the same metaphorical approach in The Thing. While the film ostensibly deals with an unseen alien invader, The Thing is actually an eschatological examination. It postulates that the end of the world will come from within, not from without. The creature that hides within human hosts is symbolic of the systemic corruption within man. As the monster moves from one host to another, a climate of paranoia begins to develop. It is this paranoia that ultimately leads the deaths of many of the movie’s characters. If you’ll notice, the film was released during the Cold War. Through The Thing, Carpenter basically satirized the Manichean paradigm of Cold War politics. Really smart filmmaking.

I also intensely enjoy films like The Thin Red Line, Heat, The Insider, Narc, Ordinary People, and other dramas that closely examine the human condition. I like some sci-fi, horror, and fantasy films, but only those that somehow bring the human condition into clearer focus. Occasional escapism is fine, but it can eventually leave audiences feeling detached. For me, something in a film must resonate with the human spirit.

As you can probably surmise from this rather lengthy response, I am very passionate about the arts. Like I said earlier, that was always my first love. For readers who would be interested in reading my more artistic work, they can check out Expansive Thoughts. This is a collection of short stories, poetry, and prose that I recently published with two other writers. The official Website for the book is expansivethoughts.com.

MAD: As for John Carpenter, I completely agree with you, he is a brilliant film maker, and there are always deeper layers to his work than what merely lies on the surface. Add the fact that he also does the musical scores for his films, and you’re dealing with a real dynamo of talent. I’d recommend a newer production from him if you’re interested, which recently aired on the Showtime Masters of Horror series, entitled Cigarette Burns. Regarding the Passion of the Christ, I would have to humbly disagree with you on this point, as I think Mel Gibson has turned into a rather pompous windbag, and if I want to know the “real story” of Jesus Chirst, I’d rather just read The Bible than to watch a two-hour torture scene. But, I respect your views on this film, it was well made if nothing else. But, like The Da Vinci Code, I think it received entirely too much attention, which took away from the impact these film adaptations might have otherwise produced.

Are there any specific non-fiction books that you’d recommend to those readers out there who would like to come to grips with, and get a better understanding of, the New World Order and the promotion of scientific elitism?

Phillip: Those who honestly want to understand conspiratorial history, elite criminality, and deep politics are going to have to exercise some serious discernment. They are going to have to seek out material that looks a bit deeper than the standard conspiracy literature. Many books dealing with this topic are intentionally designed to affirm sensationalistic presuppositions. Anyone seeking such affirmation should do this field a favor and give up. Their ilk belongs in comic book stores, not in the halls of scholarship and research. Sorry, but I had to say that. Endeth of sermon. Now, here are a few of my suggestions:

And, of course, I recommend that everyone read the Scriptures! I would also like to urge readers to check out Terry Melanson’s forthcoming release, Perfectibles [Perfectibilists]. Paul and I have had the privilege of taking a sneak peak at this monumental piece of work. I can assure serious researchers that this will be the real deal! Terry has assembled the definitive examination of the Illuminati! No sensationalism. No embellishment. This is the one, folks! Terry Melanson is an outstanding researcher and Perfectibles will raise the bar for this field!

Paul: When it comes to books you should study, trade youth for dignity. By that I mean stay away from the sensational junk that was written solely for the purpose of entertaining. Serious-minded people would be well-served by the following:

There are some books that I am anticipating that have not been released just yet. They are:

Perfectibilists: The 18th Century Bavarian Order of the Illuminati by Terry Melanson

by Terry Melanson Blueprint for Terror by Indira Singh

MAD: That should keep hearty readers busy for a long while to come. Phillip, being a fan of comic book and graphic novel literature myself, I’ll try not to take offense to that statement, but I understand the point you’re trying to make. Guys, it’s been an absolute pleasure and I’m looking forward to speaking again soon. You’ve got a tremendous wealth of information and perspective to provide, and I highly encourage everyone to spend some time with your many articles posted at Conspiracy Archive, as well as find a copy of your excellent book The Ascendancy Of The Scientific Dictatorship. Thank you again for taking the time with me today. Until our next discussion, is there anything you’d like to leave the readers with?

Phillip: Thank you so much for this opportunity. Hopefully, your readers will find the conversation elucidating. I just want to say that all of the glory goes to my Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. He has led me down the right paths. It is because of Him that I have been able to understand all of this. On the macrocosmic level, this is a battle between good and evil.

For those of you who are truly seeking a love that never fails, ask Jesus into your heart. I did and have not regretted it ever since. You have nothing to lose. Yes, there is a conspiracy of darkness upon this world. But, Jesus said that He overcame the world. That is still the case today. Though the world passes away, the Word shall not.

Paul: These are dark times we live in. And, they are likely to grow darker before light breaks. But, there are ways of prospering in the midst of it all. That prosperity begins with your spirit. Turn it all over to the Creator and you will have tapped into the One who is the source of the spirit’s prosperity. You can do that through His Son Jesus Christ. I could tell you to get out of debt. I could tell you to start exploring precious metals. I could give you any number of survival tips I have picked up along the way. However, it is coming to the Father through His Son Jesus that is the key to it all. If you get right with the Lord, everything will fall into place.

About the Authors

MAD is the Administrator at www.nwowatcher.com and co-host of the Revolution Radio program found at www.revradio.org. Recent articles by MAD can be found HERE, and recent interviews can be viewed HERE.

Phillip D. Collins acted as the editor for The Hidden Face of Terrorism and co-authored the book The Ascendancy of the Scientific Dictatorship with his brother Paul Collins. Both books are available at www.amazon.com. Phillip has also written articles for News With Views, Conspiracy Archive, and the Vexilla Regis Journal.

In 1999, Phillip earned an Associate degree of Arts and Science from Clark State Community College. In 2006, he earned a bachelor’s degree with majors in communication studies and liberal studies along with a minor in philosophy from Wright State University.

Phillip worked as a staff writer for a weekly news publication, the Vandalia Drummer, between late 2007 and 2011. During his tenure with the paper, he earned several accolades.

In 2011, he was inducted into the Media Honor Roll by the Ohio School Board Association for his extensive coverage of the Vandalia-Butler School District. That very same year, the Ohio Newspaper Association bestowed an Osman C. Hooper Newspaper Award upon Phillip for Best Photo. In addition, the City of Vandalia officially proclaimed that November 7, 2011 would be known as “Phillip Collins Day.” This honor was bestowed upon Phillip for his tireless coverage of the City and community.

Shortly after bringing his journalism career to a close, Phillip received another Osman C. Hooper Newspaper Award in the category of In-depth Reporting. This award was given to Phillip for his investigative work over the death of U.S. Marine Maria Lauterbach and the resultant Department of Defense reforms concerning sexual assault and rape. The case drew national attention and received TV coverage by major media organs.

Phillip currently works for the Wyoming Department of Corrections, where he earned the distinction of Employee of the Quarter for the third quarter of 2013. Phillip still works as a freelance journalist and is currently collaborating with his brother on a follow-up to The Ascendancy of the Scientific Dictatorship