brodudeguy1 said: I have already posted my opinion on changing the suspect process, so now i will give my veiw of azumarill and serperior. I think azumarill should stay, while serperior should be banned. Each one of serperior's sets has very few switch ins, and there is not one switch in that reliably checks every one of its sets. Alola muk and blissey fear leech seed. Scarf latias, infernape, and hydreigon fear glare. The whole meta fears z hyper beam. Plus, it is very difficult to scout serperior's set due to it's immense power after just one leaf storm. Here is one my games that shows how overbearing serperior is: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7uu-681412883 Click to expand...

I suppose the whole drama around the voting process changes is fading and we're actually getting on with actual discussion, so here I go. Disclaimer: I can already tell that I presented this in a somewhat sloppy and unorganized manner, apologies as I johned writing anything here until midnight. Apologies in advance.I can't really ignore this because the reasoning kinda irks me. First off, I just wanted to point out that there's a lot wrong with this replay here. This hardly shows how overbearing Serp can be in a proper setting. For one, the team your opponent is using is a team pif himself posted in the sample team thread here . If you were unaware of the actual situation, he admits to building this team as a counterteam to the stall bugzinator was running while they were fighting for #1 on ladder. If you asked him yourself I'm sure he wouldn't hesitate to say its a flawed team otherwise (the lack of decent MAero answers on a Bulky Offense team tends to give it away) . Turn 11 you coulda U-turned to Altaria on the Gliscor and the game had a good change of being over there since Muk was dead to +1 Return and Azu obviously didn't want to switch right in or else it would just end up getting itself in range of +1 Return if you attacked, basically sealing the game (so every time Altaria came in vs Serp/Gliscor it came down to a 50/50, which it seems you woulda won and is even more in your favor since Azumarill continually takes Stealth Rock damage, since his chosen course of action was to Toxic Altaria even though it getting to +2 meant the game was over). I suppose you caught him off guard with that joke of a Serperior set and his ended up going down after only 1 Leaf Storm on Infernape. You did have Serp covered pretty well between Altaria and Infernape so I don't suppose it would really do much even if it did get a hit off vs your own. If anything, this replay is just a reminder that you should probably have a Fairy resist on Gen 7 UU teams.If it wasn't clear to anyone that bothered reading this, I myself am pretty anti-ban for Serperior, and Azumarill by that stretch as well (despite not having any real influence over it xd). Most of the arguments against keeping them sound like a run-of-the-mill description of an S-Rank Pokemon in any given tier (even though I do think Azumarill isn't exactly deserving of its current rank at the top of UU VRs anyway). Yeah, they're gonna be able to run different sets that pressure the other sets' checks and counters, yeah they're gonna be tougher to play around than the rest of the mons in the tier. They have a toolset that puts them above the other mons and as such end up performing their job much more reliably. All of the sets between the two of them have viable counterplay that shouldn't be hard to fit on properly built teams. Offense teams that have thin resists for Azumarill should be able to limit its switchin opportunities and constantly be able to pressure it. This can easily be said about every threatening mon to offense. Stuff like Nihilego, Scizor, Mega Aerodactyl and Latias all pose a similar threat but aren't impossible to handle if you have a gameplan for them (though holy shit I think we should maybe take a look at Scizor, bordering 40% usage just on ladder and making Magneton viable in this meta is insane for a UU mon, even if this is a story for a different day). If you think Azu is broken, maybe don't slap on a Scarf Hydreigon for revenge killing next time you're four frail setup mons deep into a hyper offensive team. The same goes for balance teams that can have a tough time taking it on, though it can be a little tougher for them since 100% safe defensive counterplay for Azumarill is pretty rare, which I'll admit. I will also admit that scouting an unrevealed Azu set early on in a game can be a pretty difficult since it can basically go in one of three directions that will change your gameplan depending on what it turns out to be. The same can be said for Gliscor, though Azu tends to be more immediately threatening rather than nigh impossible to kill. Serperior in my opinion is much more straightforward than Azu since safe defensive counterplay to it is much more common with stuff like Amoonguss (that can't get baited by any Serp set like it could by Perish Trap Azu), Crobat, Mega Altaria, Blissey (run Skill Swap and Subseed Serp or Vincune will never beat your stalls again), Sap Sipper Azu (irony), Togekiss, Kyurem, Latias, Muk, Chandelure I guess even though I wil never understand what godforsaken reason Scarf has become popular, and a plethora of viable revenge killers like Infernape, Mega Aero and Mega Beedrill that can keep it under control for multiple playstyles. Maybe it's just me since I've played a few more Curse + Earthquake Snorlax in GSC compared to the average UUer, but I really think that it's not so impossible to have a solid gameplan against good mons even when you don't pack any super hard counters to them. TLDR: Azumarill and Serp bring a lot of good stuff to a team both offensively and defensively, but at the end of the day its just good mons with good toolkits for UU. Yes they will constrain the meta and teambuilding a bit, but so does literally every mon that's ever been S-Rank. There's plenty of perfectly viable counterplay to both of them that you don't have to go out of your way to use, even if they're good enough to be driving forces in the shaping of the UU metagame. Get a little creative, we don't have to check half the metagame with Klefki Twave anymore.