**Did you ever fight? **

No, I mean, Craig and I aren’t really like that. Craig and I have known each other for over fifteen years, and we’ve been playing music together for as long. We’re gonna have issues. I would fucking lie down on a track for that guy, all right? Without a question. But at the same time, there isn’t anybody that can fucking get under my skin the way that guy can. And I think he knows that. You’ve heard the lyrics the guy writes, right? He’s really good with vocabulary. And Craig has this very unique way of telling you to go fuck yourself. He can tell you how to go fuck yourself and make you happy that you’re on your way. Until, like, ten minutes later, and then at home I’ll be like, “…Wait a minute!”

“He told me to go fuck myself!”

Yeah, exactly. And it’s like, “Ugh, that guy!” To make a short story much longer, whatever issues there were with that record, I think we as a band were way more responsible for than anybody else.

Did you ever feel that you were in danger of losing the band because of your drug problem?

Yes, but I don’t think I knew it at the time. I think Craig had had enough. He’s just like, “I’ve got my career hinged to this fucking guy, and this is all that all of us have ever wanted to do, and he might be dead tomorrow.” At the time, that had never occurred to me, and it wasn’t until later and getting some perspective on it that I thought, Oh my God, that must have been fucking horrendous to have to go through.

You’re too busy thinking about the drugs.

And you’re going through your own personal hell, you know? I’d never been onstage sober, you know? It’s like, How am I gonna do this? And how am I gonna do this in this band, with this group of guys that, you know, for us, this has always been party time?

I was gonna ask about that. Did that mindset ever feel a bit hypocritical? Because when Craig tells his stories, it’s sort of past the party. There’s a tinge of regret, sometimes there’s a bit of sadness when he’s looking back on that partying. So when you’re doing “Constructive Summer” and the whole crowd screams out “GET HAMMERED!” are you like, “Wait, no, it’s not that simple!”?

Yeah, there are certainly those moments where it’s like, “Yeah, I don’t know if you guys are really getting it….” But at the same time, too, I think it’s nice for everybody to kind of be able to have their own version of whatever it is. So I try not to get too judgmental. But yeah, you know, like, there have been people that have come up to me and been like, “Oh man, I love your band, and blah blah blah and whatever, and anyone want to smoke some crack?” And I’m like, “Nope! That sounds like a fucking terrible idea, actually.”

And how have you felt, sober while onstage? Was it a new discovery? Has it been highly enjoyable?

It was really terrifying. Very difficult to not feel self-conscious and kind of uptight. But after a while it’s something that you not just get used to, but that you start to enjoy more. It got to a place where I was finally able to have fun again. You kind of have to re-learn how to do things. And it took me a second to kind of figure that out. I don’t think I would have been able to, like, sort of evolve, just as a person, had there not been that catalyst for some kind of change. So in that way I think it was definitely, you know, helpful. But that doesn’t make it any more fun or any easier. I’m a happier person, you know. Or just a lot less bloated.

**So it must be hugely gratifying for the record to come out. **

Yes. The record itself is really, really good. I definitely think it’s a more dynamic record. There’s that great juxtaposition between the loud being really kind of loud, and the other parts being, you know… I wouldn’t say quiet, but more dynamic. It’s so hard to talk about this stuff without sounding like—

An asshole?

Yeah! There is something emotionally closer, there’s like compassion or something in Craig’s voice, in telling these stories and seeing about these things that I haven’t really heard before.

Are you a Knicks fan?

Yes, I am a Knicks fan.

You have to give me a Phil Jackson hot take before we go.

I don’t see how it’s gonna help.