They finally got home around 2 a.m. and had to be back at work in six hours. Married couple Joey and Kelly Runnels had driven from Huntsville, where they reside, to Nashville to see a concert at the Ascend Amphitheater featuring guitar-hero Jeff Beck and bluesman Buddy Guy. The show was on a Wednesday. Joey, a screen-printer by trade, was unable to take a day-off from work. So he and Kelly, who manages a dry-cleaning business, drove to Nashville that evening, had dinner, enjoyed the concert and afterwards headed right back to Huntsville.

That sort of midweek boomerang road-trip is physically draining. But Joey and Kelly are huge live music fans.

"I'll go to a weekday show and drive back only if I really, really want to go to the show," Joey, age 28, says. "It doesn't always make for a very easy day at work the next day. That's definitely the downside. You just have to weigh the pros and cons, and 'Have I ever seen them before?' With Jeff Beck and Buddy Guy they're both getting up there where you might end up seeing Buddy Guy's last show, I hate to say it."

Many of the acts Joey and Kelly enjoy most tend to play amphitheaters. In recent years, the couple traveled to Alpharetta's Verizon Wireless Amphitheatre to see jam-bands like Widespread Panic and to Pelham's Oak Mountain Amphitheatre for a Phish concert. "They certainly seem to put on better shows there," Joey says. "I think anybody, if it's nice out would rather be outdoors than in a big coliseum."

Joey likes living in Huntsville because of the relative proximity to Birmingham, Nashville and Atlanta, cities frequently on touring schedules. But expenses for out-of-town concerts can add up quickly. Around $80 or so for gasoline to go to Atlanta and back. And multiple meals dining out. When Joey and Kelly can get time off from work for a concert road-trip, there are hotels, which increase costs by $100 or more per night. It helps whenever some of their friends want to go to see the same concert and can share travel expenses - and that's sometimes been the deciding factor on whether Joey and Kelly attend a show.

"It might be somebody I listen to on a daily or weekly basis, but I simply can't afford to go see them that week or take any more time off to go see them," Joey says. For example, this summer's tour featuring classic-rock icons Bad Company and Joe Walsh, which hit Atlanta and Nashville. "I've definitely missed some shows I would have loved to have seen and would have definitely seen if they were in Huntsville," Joey says.

Joey Runnels, left, Kelly Runnels and friends Ivy and John Robinson at Atlanta's Lakewood Amphitheatre before a Dave Matthews Band concert. (Courtesy photo)

Huntsville music fans like Joey and Kelly Runnels probably wouldn't need to travel as often for concerts if there was an amphitheater here.

Concert promoter Donn Jennings says a large-scale amphitheater would have a big impact on shows available for the Huntsville market. "The seating capacity and production limitations in existing venues limit many shows from coming to this market," Jennings says. "Many artists tour during the warmer months with shows and production set up for outdoor venues. Many of those shows might consider scheduling north Alabama dates." Jennings is based in Huntsville and promotes shows across the country. Concerts he's promoted in Huntsville in recent years include Earth Wind & Fire, Alice Cooper, John Fogerty and the "I Love the 90s Tour." Asked what sort of artists a 10,000 or so capacity amphitheater might help bring here, Jennings cites Dave Matthews Band, Paul Simon, Kenny Chesney and Tim McGraw. But even with an amphitheater, he cautions Huntsville is at best a secondary market and many current "A listers" aren't going to play here.

Still, a Huntsville amphitheater would be a welcome addition for twentysomethings like Mark Williams. Williams, who plays bass with local rock band Seminole Strut and waits tables, has traveled to Tuscaloosa to see amphitheater shows there, by artists including Southern indie rockers My Morning Jacket. "Don't get me wrong I'm a fan of the local scene," Williams says, "but it's always nice to go see the big names you've been looking up to for years."

Is a Huntsville amphitheater feasible?

During 2014 and 2015, the City of Huntsville conducted a feasibility study for building an amphitheater. After losing minor league baseball team Huntsville Stars after the 2014 season (and a few 2015 games here as the Biloxi Shuckers while the relocated team's Mississippi ballpark was completed), city officials have been looking for a "quality of life backfill," Huntsville Director of Urban Development Shane Davis says. "And one of the things that keeps coming back up is a full-scale amphitheater type facility," Davis says. Huntsville officials have had private conversations with two well-known Live Nation-type operators about booking and operating an amphitheater here, and hosted those operators to gauge interest. Davis says both entities indicated they'd be interested in operating a Huntsville amphitheater and indicated a market located between Birmingham and Nashville could hold some appeal.

"Many cities would do that feasibility study and it comes back you're just not a market for that," Davis says. "So, we feel confident we're a market for it. That's the first step and that's a good step."

Huntsville's amphitheater study was based on an 8,000 to 10,000 capacity venue. If it came to fruition, such a venue would probably host anywhere from nine to 15 major concerts a year, Davis says. The remaining portion of the calendar year would be local-programmed. Think outdoor symphony performances. Multi-day music festivals featuring local bands.

The next steps towards a Huntsville amphitheater, if the city does move forward, would be determining the best location and gaining community support for the project. Davis feels good about the chances for the latter. "Our preliminary results have really been, the public sees that as something that's really missing in our community, especially a lot of our people who have relocated due to their job or they moved here as a young professional because they liked the vibe of Huntsville. That's one thing we constantly hear we're missing."

Davis says if Huntsville moves on an amphitheater it would likely be within two to five years. "That decision would need to be made so if it isn't an amphitheater, what would we move on to? The big, quality-of-life win that would move the needle for Huntsville. Two things that typically do that are entertainment venues or sports venues - those are two things that typically put you on the map in a different genre of cities." The city's feasibility study indicated the going rate for a fully-realized, large-scale amphitheater is around $12 million to $15 million. (By comparison, a minor league baseball stadium would be $30 million to $40 million or so, Davis says.) The study noted several different ways a municipality can fund such a significant capital expenditure. These include: "tax increment financing" also known as a TIF; inclusion in that municipality's long-term capital plan; facility charges added to individual ticket sales; and a liquor or lodging tax increase.

Fans cheer for the band Fun as they headline a concert at the Tuscaloosa Amphitheater in 2013. (Vasha Hunt/vhunt@al.com)

Another Alabama city's amphitheater impact

The City of Tuscaloosa used a two-percent lodging-tax increase to fund the Tuscaloosa Amphitheater. There's a photo from that venue's debut concert, a 2011 Avett Brothers performance, displayed in Tuscaloosa Mayor Walter Maddox's second-floor city-hall office. Since opening, Tuscaloosa Amphitheater has also hosted shows by such artists as Neil Young, Phish, R. Kelly, The Band Perry, Alabama, Sturgill Simpson, Kenny Chesney and Dave Matthews Band. Maddox was born and raised in Tuscaloosa. He says, "When I was growing up if you wanted to enjoy Dave Matthews or another top-level band you had to go to Oak Mountain, but today you can do that in Tuscaloosa. And I believe the amphitheater is a physical manifestation of our transformation as a city."

The Tuscaloosa Amphitheater is an attractive, comfortable venue built along the Black Warrior River. The 7,470-capacity venue stands on a former landfill site. While this required the site to be remediated, Maddox says it's unlikely the site would've ever seen significant private investment and acquiring 15 acres of other riverside property would've cost much more than remediation. "And since the amphitheater's construction, we've seen a $40 million mixed-use development that includes the Hotel Indigo," Maddox says. "We've also had the new Embassy Suites, it's less than a quarter mile from the amphitheater. Plus, (the amphitheater) has become a fixture of downtown entertainment 12 to 15 times a year." Stephanie Whatley-Farmer, a 43-year-old Tuscaloosa-area resident and photographer, typically attends four or so shows at the amphitheater each year. These have included performances by Erykah Badu, Train, Kelly Clarkson and Steely Dan. "There's definitely a better stream of national acts that are stopping here," Whatley-Farmer says. "To me, it's made Tuscaloosa a lot more attractive as a local." In addition to the improved concert options, she says, "Your money's going back into the community - you're spending money at the concessions and it's employing locals."

A couple years ago, Huntsville city officials visited the Tuscaloosa Amphitheater. Davis calls it a "first-class facility." (They also visited outdoor venues in North Carolina.) Huntsville's 2015 population estimate was 190,582, nearly double Tuscaloosa's 98,332. The Tuscaloosa Amphitheater benefits from having University of Alabama's fall 2016 enrollment of 37,665 to draw from, as well as its proximity to I-59/20. Current enrollment for Huntsville's University of Alabama in Huntsville and Alabama A&M is 8,468 and 5,861, respectively.

R. Kelly performs at the Tuscaloosa Amphitheater in 2013. (Vasha Hunt/vhunt@al.com)

The Tuscaloosa Amphitheater project cost around $18 million, funded via tax-free bonds. The local lodging tax increase, now around 11 percent, generates a little over $1.1 million annually. Revenue from two-percent increase can only be spent on amphitheater expenses, such as debut service and upkeep, including two new LED boards that will cost around $200,000. "We're five years old and we're already having to do upgrades to stay competitive," Maddox says, "and so we wanted to make sure we had a funding source that would grow with the city and grow with the amphitheater and the lodging tax clearly could do that. And for our hoteliers, having the amphitheater creates additional room nights." The City of Tuscaloosa contracts out the amphitheater's booking and marketing to Birmingham-based concert promoter Red Mountain Entertainment. RME principals developed, built and managed Pelham's Oak Mountain Amphitheater, which opened in 1986 and is now owned by Live Nation, for more than 20 years.

Red Mountain's Tuscaloosa Amphitheater contract is for about $15,000 per month, plus incentives for attendance goals. They also handle sponsorships and box-seat sales, which account for nearly 50 percent of the venue's static revenues. Red Mountain declined to be interviewed for this article.

The case of the disappearing Huntsville amphitheaters

Huntsville commercial real estate broker Bill Chapman says he consulted with Red Mountain while working on The Shed, a Huntsville amphitheater project, off Hwy. 72 West that began in 2013 but halted within a year or so. Unlike the Tuscaloosa Amphitheater, The Shed was a privately funded venture. Chapman says funding issues plagued The Shed, which was going to be built on 24-acres of land owned by Keith Sharp, who Chapman had worked with on past real estate dealings. "Everything we looked at for a 10,000-seat amphitheater you're going to be in the neighborhood of anywhere from $10 million to $20 million," Chapman says. "And to make those numbers work you've got to sell that out 30 times or better a year." Logistics and zoning were also issues, Chapman says, as The Shed tract was located partially in the City of Huntsville and partially in Limestone County. Chapman is also involved with a possible reboot of legendary Huntsville music bar Tip Top Cafe.

An amphitheater was also part of the plans for Campus No. 805. Or so it appeared. Campus No. 805, address 2620 Clinton Ave W., is the former Stone Middle School campus repurposed into a commercial development anchored by local breweries Yellowhammer and Straight to Ale. Architect renderings revealed in August 2014 during the Stone building's pending sale to developer Randy Schrimsher, for the project that would eventually be named Campus No. 805, clearly depict an amphitheater, with a stage and semi-circular design. And are labeled as such. Within about a week though, that changed. Huntsville Director of Urban Development Shane Davis told AL.com that while the architectural renderings labeled the outdoor venue an amphitheater, it wouldn't include terraced seating sloping down toward a stage. "As it grows over time, who knows what it could turn into?" Davis told AL.com at the time. "But at first, the stage might just be a slightly-raised concrete pad."

An initial site plan for what became Campus No. 805 in Huntsville included an amphitheater. (File image)

On a recent November afternoon, Yellowhammer General Manager Ethan Couch is seated on the brewery's patio. He's looking out over the grassy field where the initial plans depicted an amphitheater would go. On one side of the field, there's a ground-level paved stage area about half the size of a tennis court, outfitted with electrical outputs. This lawn area has been dubbed the S.R. Butler Green. The area has hosted events such as acoustic music series Sundays on the Green and Downtown Huntsville Inc.'s Hottest Day of the Year event. In April, Yellowhammer plans to host the third year of its Spring Fest music festival on the green, which Couch says can accommodate around 2,000 people.

"It does offer a little more utility being flat," Couch says. "So, on one hand it's not terrible, but it is different than what was proposed and what everybody thought was going to happen. When they started leveling the lot everybody kept asking about it, and we eventually got word that they'd gone over budget here on the park and (the amphitheater) was the easiest thing to cut back. It was a substantial project. These things cost more than you might think, a little over $1.2 million for this parking lot and green space. We do have a stage area. We have electricity. We've got a food truck court. What we don't have is that sort of magical sound you get from an amphitheater and just the look and feel of it. Even a small one. But the city said they wanted to see how this went and perhaps then they could budget more for this space in the future, perhaps a covered stage area."

Asked if the Campus No. 805 amphitheater was tabled due to budget issues, Davis says. "An amphitheater, when you ask the public what their definition is of that you'll get a lot of answers. It was never in contention for a very structured, with big seating and big stage type amphitheater there. Our intention was to have a grass lawn that was a multi-purpose park to be able to have small music events there, similar to what you have at Concerts in the Park, and we think it will be successful for that area going forward." Of course, a large-scale amphitheater wouldn't fit within the S.R. Butler Green, which is 111 feet by 375 feet. And, Campus No. 805's parking lot only has room from around 500 to 600 vehicles.

But it's doubtful anyone was expecting Oak Mountain. Couch says something stripped down and much smaller in scale could have been - and still could be - something special. A charming, cozy outdoor venue where rising acts and veteran touring bands of a certain level, basically the types of artists that used to play the now-defunct Crossroads Music Hall, could perform. "I don't think (the city has) ruled it out," Couch says, "I just think that they were like, 'OK, we really don't know if this project will take off. We can compromise right now and we can revisit in a couple years to see if it's getting used.'"

(Don't) bring the noise

If or when a Campus No. 805 amphitheater emerges, noise levels could pose an issue. Across the street, on the other side of Clinton Avenue facing the front of the paved "stage" area, it's mostly commercial buildings. But behind 805's parking lot and Hall Street, there's a residential area.

If or when Huntsville builds a large-scale, 10,000 or so capacity amphitheater elsewhere in the city, noise would be a central factor in determining location. Davis says the master plan for the MidCity mixed-used redevelopment of Madison Square Mall, located on University Drive, includes a parcel available for such a venue. MidCity/Madison Square is mostly commercial - and located near I-565, which could be appealing for concert traffic and tour-routing considerations. The Joe Davis Stadium site, the Huntsville Star's former minor league baseball home, might be another possibility. Asked about other possible Huntsville amphitheater sites, concert promoter Donn Jennings feels John Hunt Park and UAH would be complicated noise-wise and Ditto Landing "would not be as attractive of location for patrons from Florence, Decatur, Athens, etc., and also would require infrastructure improvements that would be very expensive." Shane Davis doesn't think downtown Huntsville would be the right place either: "We have so many other things downtown that are right and (a large-scale amphitheater) could make them go wrong, as far as noise. And you'd want it to complement the Von Braun Center, not compete against it."

When a city invests in an amphitheater it's not doing so to make a profit. They're built as quality of life investments. - like Joe Davis Stadium and Von Braun Center were. "We're the regional medical center, the regional shopping destination, we're the regional employment center," Davis says. "To keep all that you also have to be the regional entertainment center - where people look to go for festivals or music events or sporting events. You've got to keep that to keep the others."