An interview on AM Joy grew heated Saturday morning when host Joy Reid refused to let a defender of President Donald Trump duck answering questions about Donald Trump’s Jr.’s meeting with Russians before the 2016 election.

Reid was unrelenting in questioning Fred Fleitz, the former chief of staff for Ambassador John Bolton, who persisted in explaining that the Trump meeting on June 9th was much ado about nothing because it was organized by music promoter Rob Goldstone

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“What we have here is a playboy celebrity publicist who likes to hang out with Tina Turner and Miss America contestants, who lied to get a meeting with Donald Trump Jr. that he ordinarily would not have held,” Fleitz explained.”I’ve got to tell you that someone who is really involved in this intricate Russian intelligence operation would never have sent the email we discussed earlier, mentioning this operation exists.

“This guy was exaggerating, this guy was lying to get his client in front of Donald Trump Jr. That’s what happened here, all this other stuff is fantasy,” he remarked while holding up a photo of Goldstone wearing a pirate hat.

“Let me ask you a question,” Reid shot back,. “It’s not fantasy because the meeting took place. In your view, if this person said to Donald Trump Jr., ‘I’ve got this information from the Russian government.’ What would be the motivation of Donald Trump Jr. to say ‘yes,’ and take the meeting?”

“Because Donald Trump Jr. knows this guy is a flake,” Fleitz parried. ” Because he realizes he’s exaggerating to get the meeting but he’s a friend. he probably said, ‘well, look, there’s no Russian effort to help my father, but look, I’ll meet with this guy because he’s a friend.’ There’s simply nothing there to connect this as a Russian intelligence operation.”

During a frantic back and forth, with Fleitz attempting to dismiss and duck Reid’s questions, the conservative aide complained, “This is a rigged interview.”

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Watch the video below via MSNBC: