FreeTrade



Offline



Activity: 1330

Merit: 1024









LegendaryActivity: 1330Merit: 1024 Mappers vs Packers. Why Most People Don't Get Bitcoin October 06, 2011, 06:11:24 PM #1



The first, Mapping, involves creating a logical model about the world.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mapper_orientation

- A person with mapping tendencies receives new information; facts, techniques, abilities, and undergoes a process of incorporating the new information into a personally developed and self-adaptive model of the world.



The second, Packing, relies on pattern matching. A person with this orientation tries to match a new theory or situation to a previous one where there are known 'correct' answers. Most people are packers.



To really appreciate Bitcoin, you've got to have a good working mental model of what money is, how cryptography works, and the shortcomings of current online methods of payments. This combination is rare - especially understanding money (hence the famous saying "Only two people really understand money and they disagree.") You can see in the writings of someone like Falkvinge, he really understands all of these things. Mappers who do really get very exicted about Bitcoin.



To a packer though - it's pretty simple. Bitcoin looks just like a Ponzi scheme or a Pyramid scheme. Lots of money going in, no real work being done, nothing real being produced, early adopters getting rich. All the hallmarks are there. If it looks like a horse, and smells like a horse . . . This kind of thinking is remarkably widespread and usually effective - but is never sufficient to understand a radically different system like Bitcoin.





Full Description of the Mapper/Packer Theory here

http://the-programmers-stone.com/the-original-talks/day-1-thinking-about-thinking/ The Mappers/Packers theory holds that there are basically two ways to think about the world.The first, Mapping, involves creating a logical model about the world.- A person with mapping tendencies receives new information; facts, techniques, abilities, and undergoes a process of incorporating the new information into a personally developed and self-adaptive model of the world.The second, Packing, relies on pattern matching. A person with this orientation tries to match a new theory or situation to a previous one where there are known 'correct' answers. Most people are packers.To really appreciate Bitcoin, you've got to have a good working mental model of what money is, how cryptography works, and the shortcomings of current online methods of payments. This combination is rare - especially understanding money (hence the famous saying "Only two people really understand money and they disagree.") You can see in the writings of someone like Falkvinge, he really understands all of these things. Mappers who do really get very exicted about Bitcoin.To a packer though - it's pretty simple. Bitcoin looks just like a Ponzi scheme or a Pyramid scheme. Lots of money going in, no real work being done, nothing real being produced, early adopters getting rich. All the hallmarks are there. If it looks like a horse, and smells like a horse . . . This kind of thinking is remarkably widespread and usually effective - but is never sufficient to understand a radically different system like Bitcoin.Full Description of the Mapper/Packer Theory here HODLCoin ANN - 5% Interest. No Staking Req. Term Deposits 10%. Solo Mining. http://hodlcoin.com/

dunand



Offline



Activity: 637

Merit: 501









Hero MemberActivity: 637Merit: 501 Re: Mappers vs Packers. Why Most People Don't Get Bitcoin October 06, 2011, 06:35:44 PM #2 This is true. This is really difficult to sell Bitcoin to someone who don't get what money, inflation or fractional reserve is.



For those persons I think we better to only talk about the trivial stuff :

- non-reversable

- almost no fees

- no bank involved

- fast

- easy



- do not talk about mining. if you really need to, start by explaining the need to protect the network because there is no central authority...

- do not talk about the early adopters advantage. It look like the start of a pyramidal scheme.

- do not show a chart of the value BTC/USD. It looks like it's failing but it's only the fault of the speculators.



Anonymous Guest



Re: Mappers vs Packers. Why Most People Don't Get Bitcoin October 06, 2011, 06:38:16 PM #3 This truly explains why people there is an extreme group of anti-bitcoin dissidents and a very passionate group of supporters on this forum.



If you follow Bitcoin to its logical conclusions, you'll realize it is world changing if people adopt it. It's a scary tool either way you look at it. Destabilizing the central banking powers is a serious matter and challenges every authority on the planet. As said, whoever controls the wealth controls everything.



Bitcoin will prove whether there is a globalist agenda or if we just live in an incompetent, unstable world. If there are higher powers with great determination as many believe, then they will do all they can to stop Bitcoin.

322i0n



Offline



Activity: 196

Merit: 100







Full MemberActivity: 196Merit: 100 Re: Mappers vs Packers. Why Most People Don't Get Bitcoin October 06, 2011, 07:12:41 PM #6 Quote Bitcoin will prove whether there is a globalist agenda ... If there are higher powers with great determination as many believe, then they will do all they can to stop Bitcoin.

and if this is true they will be amongst us already. and if this is true they will be amongst us already. Supporting The Global Insurrection Against Banker Occupation

BTC: 1C1w6t1dMkEXeCntURxDiBiWsTbdJbvTr9

NMC: N6uNpVPAdpTur4Hwr8Sqgd6kxcKPto4S2T

bc



Offline



Activity: 72

Merit: 10









MemberActivity: 72Merit: 10 Re: Mappers vs Packers. Why Most People Don't Get Bitcoin October 07, 2011, 02:49:00 AM #11 If OP is right, bitcoin won't get widespread adoption by general consumer Packers until there's been a pattern drawn out for them by general consumer Mappers (for several years).





But, elicit drug consumer Packers might exhibit a different time preference when they see a pattern drawn out for them by elicit drug consumer Mappers - and take it up a little quicker.



And organizations that find themselves on the wrong side of governmental pressure on Paypal might find they need fresh ideas or leadership in a hurry - and spot the pattern drawn out for them by organizations headed by Mappers.



And Packers in a country with a hyper-inflating currency will feel a fire under their posteriors - to spot the pattern drawn out for them by flight-to-safety Mappers that figured it out.





These and other niche groups, stroke by stroke, will help to paint a picture that challenges the pre-conceived notions of general consumer Packers.



The time frames we're dealing with are clearly historically short. They're just longer than we would have hoped - having lived through the big run-up of June. "Democracy is the original 51% attack." - Erik Voorhees

FreeTrade



Offline



Activity: 1330

Merit: 1024









LegendaryActivity: 1330Merit: 1024 Re: Mappers vs Packers. Why Most People Don't Get Bitcoin October 07, 2011, 12:28:16 PM #13 Quote from: bc on October 07, 2011, 02:49:00 AM If OP is right, bitcoin won't get widespread adoption by general consumer Packers until there's been a pattern drawn out for them by general consumer Mappers (for several years).



Packers are happy enough to use something once they see it working - being practical is not a problem.



It's in discussion where you need to be aware of their different way of thinking.



I'm sure this will sound familiar to you -



--------------

An aspect of packer thinking that drives mappers up the wall, is that packers often seem to neither seek out the flaws in their own logic, nor even hear them when they utter them. Worse, when flaws are pointed out to them, they are likely to react by justifying following logic that they cheerfully admit is flawed, on grounds of administrative convenience. The evidence of their own senses is not as important as behaviour learned through repetition, and they seem to have no sense of proportion when performing cost/benefit analyses. This is because packers do not create integrated conceptual pictures from as much as possible of what they know. The mapper may point out a fact, but it is one fact amongst so many. The packer does not have a conceptual picture of the situation that indicates the important issues, so the principal source of guidance is a set of procedural responses that specify action to be taken. The procedure that is selected to be followed will be something of a lottery. For the mapper, one fact that should fit the map but doesn't, means the whole map is suspect. The error could wander around like a lump in a carpet, and end up somewhere really important. Both parties agree that they should do the `logical' thing, but two people can disagree about logic when one sees relationships that the other has only ever been dissuaded from seeing. Packers are happy enough to use something once they see it working - being practical is not a problem.It's in discussion where you need to be aware of their different way of thinking.I'm sure this will sound familiar to you ---------------An aspect of packer thinking that drives mappers up the wall, is that packers often seem to neither seek out the flaws in their own logic, nor even hear them when they utter them. Worse, when flaws are pointed out to them, they are likely to react by justifying following logic that they cheerfully admit is flawed, on grounds of administrative convenience. The evidence of their own senses is not as important as behaviour learned through repetition, and they seem to have no sense of proportion when performing cost/benefit analyses. This is because packers do not create integrated conceptual pictures from as much as possible of what they know. The mapper may point out a fact, but it is one fact amongst so many. The packer does not have a conceptual picture of the situation that indicates the important issues, so the principal source of guidance is a set of procedural responses that specify action to be taken. The procedure that is selected to be followed will be something of a lottery. For the mapper, one fact that should fit the map but doesn't, means the whole map is suspect. The error could wander around like a lump in a carpet, and end up somewhere really important. Both parties agree that they should do the `logical' thing, but two people can disagree about logic when one sees relationships that the other has only ever been dissuaded from seeing. HODLCoin ANN - 5% Interest. No Staking Req. Term Deposits 10%. Solo Mining. http://hodlcoin.com/

paraipan



Offline



Activity: 924

Merit: 1003





Firstbits: 1pirata







LegendaryActivity: 924Merit: 1003Firstbits: 1pirata Re: Mappers vs Packers. Why Most People Don't Get Bitcoin October 07, 2011, 12:53:33 PM

Last edit: October 31, 2011, 09:33:46 PM by paraipanakos #15 @FreeTrade thanks for opening this thread and posting the external links, you just managed to explain a whole life dilemma i had about people psychology. I only managed to link this two, by myself, with the predominance of male or female genes in a person.



Personal rant... Within mappers male genes would dominate. They tend to assume risks with ease, explore their environment, investigate a problem before addressing it, etc. Exactly the opposite happens with individuals that have female genes dominate, or packers, prefer large communities to feel secure, adapt or try to match new things with already known stuff, use something once they see it working. Taking risks is not an option for them though.



We made a great team over the centuries and if we want to succeed as a race we can't allow having to many from a type, mappers or packers. I am sure great discoveries were made by mappers but they tend to forget fast and pass on to other things, with the help of packers we had all that knowledge gathered and passed over time. Dunno if i'm even close to the theory but i had to spit it out. BTC itcoin: An Idea Worth Saving - Q&A with bitcoins on rugatu.com - Check my rep

cbeast

Legendary



Offline



Activity: 1736

Merit: 1002



Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.







DonatorLegendaryActivity: 1736Merit: 1002Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs. Re: Mappers vs Packers. Why Most People Don't Get Bitcoin October 07, 2011, 02:23:20 PM #16 The whole mappers vs. packers epistemology is about how skillfully we are able to model our world. The scientific method vs. our patter-seeking animal instincts. Packers have evolved to survive in the natural world, but the inevitable outcome of all evolution is extinction. If we don't become mappers (positivists), then we will be replaced by species that will better adapt to the environment we create. Any significantly advanced cryptocurrency is indistinguishable from Ponzi Tulips.

infofront



Offline



Activity: 2156

Merit: 2121





Shitcoin Minimalist







LegendaryActivity: 2156Merit: 2121Shitcoin Minimalist Re: Mappers vs Packers. Why Most People Don't Get Bitcoin October 07, 2011, 03:18:45 PM #17 Quote from: cbeast on October 07, 2011, 02:23:20 PM The whole mappers vs. packers epistemology is about how skillfully we are able to model our world. The scientific method vs. our patter-seeking animal instincts. Packers have evolved to survive in the natural world, but the inevitable outcome of all evolution is extinction. If we don't become mappers (positivists), then we will be replaced by species that will better adapt to the environment we create.



It's clearly the mappers, like bitcoin enthusiasts, who steer the world. If the human race followed packers, we might have never left the dark ages. Or even worse, we might all be wearing those godawful cheese hats. Anyway, packers tend to be followers, because they don't have the vision or risk tolerance to lead, so I'm not too worried about it. It's clearly the mappers, like bitcoin enthusiasts, who steer the world. If the human race followed packers, we might have never left the dark ages. Or even worse, we might all be wearing those godawful cheese hats. Anyway, packers tend to be followers, because they don't have the vision or risk tolerance to lead, so I'm not too worried about it.