Longtime readers of Strong Towns will be familiar with the work of Kevin Shepherd. Shepherd is the founding principle at Verdunity, a Dallas-based consulting firm. He is a friend of Strong Towns, a collaborator, and a contributor to this site.

And in addition to being a former guest on the Strong Towns podcast, he hosts a fantastic podcast of his own called Go Cultivate! (We recently highlighted an episode about property tax caps.)

The folks at Verdunity were instrumental in bringing Chuck Marohn to Dallas last month as part of the Strong America Tour. While he was there, Chuck was also able to join Kevin for a great conversation on Go Cultivate! We’re excited to bring that conversation to you here too, a kind of Strong Towns/Verdunity mash-up.

In this episode, Chuck and Kevin talk in-depth about what Chuck’s response is to the question he gets at almost every tour stop—some version of “Okay, so what do I do now?” They talk about the role APEs (architects, planners, and engineers) play in generating fragile cities. They also discuss comprehensive plans and zoning codes, the importance of feedback loops, and how Chuck responds to the criticisms that the incremental approach doesn’t apply to building large-scale systems.

It’s a rich conversation among dear friends and respected colleagues. You won’t want to miss it.

After you listen to this episode, make sure to subscribe to the Go Cultivate! podcast too. You’ll soon see why it’s in our regular rotation.