

The DMT Entities: A Jungian Perspective



Hey guys, if you care to read some of my material on entity-contact, please let me know what you think. Most of all, please share your experiences. I will be updating this thread extensively.



http://www.wedietorememberwhatwe livetoforget.com/



It is widely reported by people who have experienced DMT that entities are frequently encountered during their trips. Perhaps the most well known of such accounts comes from Terence Mckenna, who spoke of the "self-transforming machine elves" of Hyperspace. Arguably, Terence set the standard for having a discourse on these peculiar states and the entities that inhabit them, so I feel that is my responsibility to quote him directly before I even begin to touch upon any of my own personal speculations regarding them. Terence provided me with the tools to open my mind; I owe everything to his influences. For those of you who have "met Them," I promise this will be well worth the read.



"The most extraordinary thing about the DMT experience is that see entities. You encounter beings whom I've described as self-transforming machine elves. They are the denizens of this other dimension. They are trying to teach something." Food of the Gods



"The experience always reminds me of the twenty-fourth fragment of Heraclitus: "The Aeon is a child at play with colored balls." One not only becomes the Aeon at play with colored balls but meets entities as well. In the book by my brother and myself, The Invisible Landscape, I describe them as self-transforming machine elves, for that is how they appear. These entities are dynamically contorting topological modules that are somehow distinct from the surrounding background, which is itself undergoing continuous transformation. These entities remind me of the scene in the film version of The Wizard of Oz after the Munchkinds come with a death certificate for the Witch of the East. They all have very squeaky voices and they sing a little song about being "absolutely and completely dead." The tryptamine Munchkins come, these hyper-dimensional machine-elf entities, and they bathe one in love. It's not erotic but it is open-hearted. It certainly feels good. These beings are like fractal reflections of some previously hidden and suddenly autonomous part of ones own psyche.



And they are speaking, saying, "Don't be alarmed. Remember, and do what we are doing." The fractal elves seem to be reassuring, saying, "Don't worry, don't worry; do this, look at this." Meanwhile, one is completely "over there." One's ego is intact. One's fear reflexes are intact. One is not "fuzzed out" at all. Consequently, the natural reaction is amazement; profound astonishment that persists and persists. One breathes and it persists. The elves are saying, "Don't get a loop of wonder going that quenches your ability to understand. Try not to be so amazed. Try to focus and look at what we are doing." What they're doing is emitting sounds like music, like language. These sounds pass without any quantized moment of distinction - as Philo Judaeus said that the Logos would when it became perfect - from things heard into things beheld. One hears and beholds a language of alien meaning that is conveying alien information that cannot be Englished." The Archaic Revival



Come to think of it, I also cannot leave out Rick Strassman, whose groundbreaking DMT study also encountered "contact" with beings from another dimension. His life's work changed my life forever as well; without his lucid brilliance and startling objectivity, I never would have dared to explore the regions of mind that I have. From his book, DMT: The Spirit Molecule:



"When reviewing my bedside notes, I continually feel surprise in seeing how many of our volunteers "made contact" with "them," or other beings. At least half did so in one form or another. Research subjects used expressions like "entities," "beings," "aliens," "guides," and "helpers" to describe them. The "life-forms" looked like clowns, reptiles, mantises, bees, spiders, cacti, and stick figures. It is still startling to see my written records of comments like "There were these beings," "I was being led," "They were on me fast." It's as if my mind refuses to accept

what's there in black and white.""



And so, without further ado:



When I first started experimenting with DMT, I gently waded into the waters; I did not jump, as I was well aware of its incalculable power thanks to the books that I had read. I was already acquainted with challenging states of mind as a result of my experimentation with psilocybin; however, nothing could have ever prepared me for the being contact that I established after only a few dips into the DMT dimension. You can read all you want about psychedelics and entity contact, but until you actually experience it, you truly have no frame of reference upon which to make any sense of such vague metaphors. Ego dissolution is one thing; Alien contact is another thing altogether. These are free-flowing "beings of energy" which are moving in conjunction with an ineffable display of color and multidimensionality. They appear "more real than real" and yet, they are impossible to describe.



I started with quite "standard" - as far DMT goes - visions; I saw beautifully symmetrical "chrysanthemums" of incredibly deep colors that vibrated and seemingly "danced." I saw the most incredibly bright, yet deep, greens, reds, yellows, and a contrast of the deepest blackness to the most ethereal of white. With eyes open, everything seemed to vibrate and upon closer inspection, objects seemed to give off energy, as if matter was slowly disintegrating and regenerating. I even saw an "alien" alphabet superimposed upon my vision, which can be best represented by some of Allyson Grey's artwork such as this:







And I cannot leave out Alex's most perfect representation of his first smoked DMT experience:









As I kept going "farther" and "deeper" with each subsequent experience, I began to realize that, during my trips, I was essentially realizing and experiencing for the first time, that everything around me is Alive, i.e., it is all consciousness; it is "God's" all-encompassing, eternally regenerating Manifestation. This dissolution of boundaries and bright colors finally gave way to a movement of energy which can only be experienced to be properly understood. An incredible build up of "psychic" energy occurred within seconds, during which a "warm mass" of energy slowly rose up my spinal cord to where I felt a center in my head concentrate in "pressure." This all brought to mind the Indian view of chakras and the kundalini serpent; but that is for another post.



Unfortunately, the barriers of our language and especially our ways of understanding the world entirely inhibit any kind of explanation that I come up with, i.e., unless you've been there, you have zero frame of reference to understand where I am coming from. I am most aware of this, however, so for those of you who have witnessed what I am discussing; this is for you.



This is what I have come to learn from communicating with "Them" for over 3 years. What happened to me on my first contact experience was absolutely beyond description; it quite literally shook the foundation of my entire existence, as I became aware that what was occurring was truly impossible, unless I was genuinely crazy. Yet in knowing of all these other accounts of contact, I had a frame of reference which allowed me to not succumb to a purely personal, idiosyncratic view point which could have led to my psychic disintegration. DMT truly allows a window into the "schizophrenic" mind, to say the least; it provides an immediate apocalypse of grandeur beyond imagination. Schizophrenia is defined as a mental disorder, and yet, do you really know anyone without one? Truly, there are people who are most definitely not well psychically due to unfortunate circumstances that occurred during their lives, but even the average person carries weights around in their unconscious that effect their behavior. These psychic - for lack of a better word- weights form the complexes which are the basis of our own relative neurosis. What we are essentially experiencing during these psychedelic contact experiences, in my opinion, is the outpouring of our unconscious into consciousness (It took years of reading Jung for this to sink in). The outpouring is so incredible that we experience an acute psychotic outbreak, which is accompanied by internally manifested, yet seemingly autonomous, beings that communicate to us impossible correlative insights and show off mind bending feats of pure imagination.



To the unfortunate predisposed shizophrenic, these perturbed or "elevated" states of mind are often met with confusion, which often leads to a hostile denial of internal stresses, which are fed by this confusion in question. This psychosis, this perpetual behavior of cyclical outbreaks of repressed unconscious contents, is often detrimental to the personality of the individual and therefore, the individual loses a slow battle of personality disintegration, which then leads to his total dissociation from reality. Now, the ample-minded individual who partakes in a consciousness perturbing experience, such as taking a psychedelic compound, he will experience something not too far from the predisposed schizophrenic; however, the fundamental difference is that the experience is self-willed, and therefore depending upon what lies within that person's personal unconscious, they could experience a multitude of things, such as incredible contact with small entities that convey hidden knowledge; a momentous epiphany of Self-realization and integration; or they may experience macabre visions which accompany the release of negative psychic contents - this is the classic "bad-trip." These are truly consciousness expanding plants and depending upon the person, the entities in question will either assist you, or torment you; the interpretation is ultimately up to your Self- your entire catalog of being - memories, fears, and especially, state of mind. They are the guardians of God knowledge; literally, they are the beings who weigh our souls worth upon entry into the death state.



The entities themselves appear to exist as autonomous manifestations of some sort of primordial state of matter and consciousness. They represent a state of energy which is utterly exempt from the laws of physics as we know them, as such that they marvel us with their incredible feats of dimension manipulation. They continually extol sheer effortlessness in shocking us with insights which quite literally blow the lids off of our minds. Often this sort of overload of input results in our immediate shock and subsequent denial, which leads to our forgetting of the experience itself; quite literally, we reject the experience as impossible and possibly psychotic. Sometimes, the entities appear to be "waiting" for us; welcoming us back, so to speak, to this autonomous land of infinite potentiality and dimension-free imagination.



The Elves seem to weigh our consciousness almost immediately upon our entry into this state. Now whether or not they are our strictly personal manifestations is not actually knowable; however, the vast consensus, the similarity of accounts that span thousands of years; it is these psychic facts which we cannot ignore. These beings litter our worlds religions and mythologies; they are the "little" representatives of the collective unconscious; they are the fairies and elves of our worlds countless myths. These beings, as understood by Jung, were the Devil's fallen angels of the unconscious; Lucifer - the bringer of light - they are his workers; communicating to us the contents of our unconscious for the purpose of fulfilling the great alchemical opus that has spanned the entire duration of the Universe which exists within the human mind. They urge for the reconciliation of the opposites; the final consummation of Eternity; the realization of the Ouroboros. They help mankind achieve this by facilitating our evolution through the mechanized release of unconscious psychic contents.



The final achievement; the heiros gamos of the human mind and subsequently, the human race, lies upon these entities which either grant us, or deny us entry to the Godhead. They are "His/It's" protectors. They weigh our worthiness with their trickster-like macabre playfulness, which is meant to shake us from our rigid complacency. They are the Tykes of the Aeon; God's mischievous elves which are the living Logos. They exist within our unconscious, in my argument both on a personal and most of all, on a collectively shared level. Physicians or shamans who enter this state often get right to business with these entities, because they have gained the control of their manifestation. The entities appear to be a distraction to those of whom intentions are either suspect or utterly destitute of any true spiritual context. Those who enter this state without any true purpose will be met with entities who may seemingly torture you with their "negative" energy and shocking visions; or they may go easy on you and just seemingly "play around" with you. To those of the pure in heart and poor in spirit, however, they seem to welcome you with open arms and try to acquaint you as gently as possible. They grant you entry and take care of you while you are in this state. A feeling of great love and comfort is often felt by people whom are open to the entities and are harboring no pent up "darkness" (negative psychic contents) within their respective being. The entities are a manifestation of our shadow. Our shadow is essentially everything that deny or repress in consciousness. I will be adding an addendum on the Shadow in the very near future.



The following are a few unbelievable accounts of entity contact:



The Book of Enoch dates from the third through first centuries before Christ and its Messianic content was utilized extensively in both the Gospels and the Acts of the Apostles, notably in the titles of the Messiah: Christ [the Anointed One], the Righteous One, the Elect One, and the Son of Man. In two places the last of these titles is in the context of what are virtually verbatim quotes from the Book of Enoch. The book tells of a great chastisement that will come from the heavens to judge mankind during some remote generation which has yet to come.





LXX1. 5-8



"And he (angel Michael) translated my spirit into the heaven of the heavens,

And I saw there as it were a structure built of crystals,

And between those crystals tongues of living fire.

And my spirit saw the girdle which girt that house of fire,

And on its four sides were streams full of living fire,

And they girt that house.

And round about were Seraphim, Cherubim, and Ophannin:

And these are they who sleep not,

And guard the throne of his glory.

And I saw angels who could not be counted,

A thousand thousands and ten thousand times ten thousand,

Encircling that house,

And Michael, and Raphel, and Gabriel, and Phanuel,

And the holy angels who are above the heavens,

Go in and out of that house"



Italics mine.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ser aphim

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Che rubim

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oph annin





The structure built of crystals definitely reminds me of DMT space, as does the description of living fire. However, what was really most startling to me was the reference to the Seraphin, Cherubin, and Ophannin as being those "who sleep not" and that they guard the throne of his glory.



Perhaps the entities really are psychic "guards" that are capable of directing our experience by manipulating negative psychic contents. It seems to me that they use their ability to do so in order to distract or more importantly, teach, those who are not ready or worthy to experience God's glory, aka mystical experience, divine love, gnosis etc. If you have any skeletons in your closet, they are immediately addressed by the entities in order to test your worthiness. It brings to mind the doctrine of sin and the intuition that every thing you do is in fact remembered by God when you finally do get around to seeing Him.



DMT definitely seems to be the greatest morality device imaginable; without complete comfort of oneself, the experience will most likely be hellish and full of fear. However, if you are comfortable with yourself, with your past and your present, it is possible to experience God and all that mystical experience implies, if the entities deem you worthy.





From Carl Jung's Red Book:



What serviceable forms rise from your body, you thieving

abyss! These appear as elemental spirits, dressed in wrinkled

garb, Cabiri, with delightful misshapen forms, young and yet old,

dwarfish, shriveled, unspectacular bearers of secret arts, possessors

of ridiculous wisdom, first formations of the unformed gold,

worms that crawl from the liberated egg of the Gods, incipient

ones, unborn, still invisible. What should your appearance be to

usr What new arts do you bear up from the inaccessible treasure

chamber, the sun yoke from the egg of the Gods. You still have

roots in the soil like plants and you are animal faces / of the

human body; you are foolishly sweet, uncanny, primordial, and

earthly. We cannot grasp your essence, you gnomes, you objectsouls.

You have your origin in the lowest. Do you want to become

giants, you Tom Thumbsr Do you belong to the followers of the

son of the earthr Are you the earthly feet of the Godheadr What

do you wantr Speak!"*

The Cabiri: "We come to greet you as the master of the

lower nature."

I: ''Are you speaking to mer Am I your master?"

The Cabiri: "You were not, but you are now."

I: "So you declare. And so be it. Yet what should I do with

your following?"

The Cabiri: "We carry what is not to be carried from below

to above. We are the juices that rise secretly, not by force, but

sucked out of inertia and affixed to what is growing. We know

the unknown ways and the inexplicable laws of living matter. We

carry up what slumbers in the earthly; what is dead and yet enters

into the living. We do this slowly and easily; what you do in vain

in your human way. We complete what is impossible for you."

I: "What should I leave to you? Which troubles can I transfer

to you? What should I not do, and what do you do better?"

The Cabiri: "You forget the lethargy of matter. You want to

pull up with your own force what can only rise slowly; ingesting

itself affixed to itself from within. Spare yourself the trouble, or

you will disturb our work."

1: "Should I trust you, you untrustworthy ones, you slaves and

slave souls? Get to work. Let it be so."

31I[HI 166] "It seems to me that I gave you a long time. Neither

did I descend to you nor did I disturb your work. I lived in the

light of day and did the work of the day. What did you do?"

The Cabiri: "We hauled things up, we built. We placed stone

upon stone. Now you stand on solid ground."

1: "I feel the ground more solid. I stretch upward."

The Cabiri: "We forged a flashing / sword for you, with which

you can cut the knot that entangles you."

1: "I take the sword firmly in my hand. I lift it for the blow."

The Cabiri: "We also place before you the devilish, skillfully

twined knot that locks and seals you. Strike, only sharpness will

cut through it."

1: "Let me see it, the great knot, all wound round! Truly a

masterpiece of inscrutable nature, a wily natural tangle of roots

grown through one another! Only Mother Nature, the blind

weaver, could work such a tangle! A great snarled ball and a

thousand small knots, all artfully tied, intertwined, truly; a human

brain! Am I seeing straight? What did you do? You set my brain

before me! Did you give me a sword so that its flashing sharpness

slices through my brain? What were you thinking of?"312

The Cabiri: "The womb of nature wove the brain, the womb

of the earth gave the iron. So the Mother gave you both:

entanglement and severing."

1: "Mysterious! Do you really want to make me the executioner

of my own brain?"

The Cabiri: "It befits you as the master of the lower nature.

Man is entangled in his brain and the sword is also given to him

to cut through the entanglement."

I: "What is the entanglement you speak of?"

The Cabiri: "The entanglement is your madness, the sword is

the overcoming of madness."313

I: "You offsprings of the devil, who told you that I am mad?

You earth spirits, you roots of clay and excrement, are you not

yourselves the root fibers of my brain? You polyp-snared rubbish,

channels for juice knotted together, parasites upon parasites, all

sucked up and deceived, secretly climbing up over one another

by night, you deserve the flashing sharpness of my sword. You

want to persuade me to cut through you? Are you contemplating

self-destruction? How come nature gives birth to creatures that

she herself wants to destroy?"

The Cabiri: "Do not hesitate. We need destruction since we

ourselves are the entanglement. He who wishes to conquer new

land / brings down the bridges behind him. Let us not exist

anymore. We are the thousand canals in which everything also

flows back again into its origin."

1: "Should I sever my own roots? Kill my own people, whose

king I am? Should I make my own tree wither? You really are

the sons of the devil."

The Cabiri: "Strike, we are servants who want to die for

their master."

I: "What will happen if I strike?"

The Cabiri: "Then you will no longer be your brain, but will

exist beyond your madness. Do you not see, your madness is

your brain, the terrible entanglement and intertwining in the

connection of the roots, in the nets of canals, the confusion of

fibers. Being engrossed in the brain makes you wild. Strike! He

who finds the way rises up over his brain. You are a Tom Thumb

in the brain, beyond the brain you gain the form of a giant. We

are surely sons of the devil, but did you not forge us out of the

hot and dark? So we have something of its nature and of yours.

The devil says that everything that exists is also worthy, since

it perishes. As sons of the devil we want destruction, but as your

creatures we want our own destruction. We want to rise up in

you through death. We are roots that suck up from all sides.

Now you have everything that you need, therefore chop us up,

tear us out."

1: "Will I m'iss you as servants? As a master I need slaves."

The Cabiri: "The master serves himself"

1: "You ambiguous sons of the devil, these words are

your undoing. May my sword strike you, this blow shall be

valid forever."

The Cabiri "Woe, woe! What we feared, what we desired, has

come to pass."



*

The Cabiri were the deities celebrated at the mysteries of Samothrace. They were held to be promoters of fertility and protectors of sailors. Friedrich Creuzer and Schelling held them to be the primal deities of Greek mythology, from which all others developed (Symbolik und Mytlwlogie der alten Volker [Leipzig: Leske, 1810-23]; The Deities ofsamothrace [1815], introduced and translated by R. F. Brown [Missoula, MT: Scholars Press, 1977]). Jung had copies of both of these works. They appear in Goethe's Faust, part 2, act 2. Jung discussed the Cabiri in Traniformations and Symbols of the Libido (1912, CW B §209-II). In 1940 Jung wrote: "The Cabiri are, in fact,

the mysterious creative powers, the gnomes who work under the earth, i.e., below the threshold of consciousness, in order to supply us with lucky ideas. As imps and hobgoblins, however, they also lay all sorts of nasty tricks, keeping back names and dates that were 'on the tip of the tongue,' making us say the wrong thing, etc. They give an eye to everything that has not already been anticipated by consciousness and the functions at its disposal ... deeper insight will show that the primitive and

archaic qualities of the inferior function conceal all sorts of significant relationships and symbolic meanings, and instead oflaughing off the Cabiri as ridiculous Tom Thumbs he may begin to suspect that they are a treasure-house of hidden wisdom" ('~ttempt at a psychological interpretation of the dogma of the trinity," CW II, §244). Jung commented on the Cabiri scene in Faust in Psychology and Alchemy (1944, CW 12, §203f). The dialogue with the Cabiri that takes place here is not found in

Black Book 4, but is in the Handwritten Drift. It may have been written separately; if so it would have been written prior to the summer of 1915.





http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom _Thumb



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cab iri



If the last bit on Carl Jung didn't blow your mind... well then I guess I'm all alone.







Please forgive any errors on my part, I kinda threw this together, versus laboring over it like I usually do.







Cheers!



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"When you get the message, hang up the phone." - Alan Watts



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what do the cabiri represent exactly?



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Edited by Hiei (06/02/10 04:21 AM)



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Quote:

Hiei said:

what do the cabiri represent exactly?







The DMT entities.



They are projections of the unconscious.



Carl Jung actually communicated with them, just as Terence Mckenna did. The only difference being that Carl was naturally predisposed toward experiencing their presence and Terence had to trip to realize them.



They are psychic manifestations that facilitate our evolution through the disclosure of our unconscious contents.



Our unconscious, after all, is where our instinct exerts its influence, so if we can learn to understand our unconscious contents we can then direct our will toward integration of our psyche.



The entities beckon us to integrate what is in our unconscious into consciousness for the purpose of furthering the enfoldment of the Cosmic Drama; the reconciliation of opposites of which the unconscious and consciousness represent.



When we can unite our unconscious with consciousness, we experience Enlightenment; the freedom from duality. Love; pure understanding of the necessary reciprocity of the Universe and Man.







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"When you get the message, hang up the phone." - Alan Watts



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Nice site btw. Have you read anything by Grof ?



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Quote:

Hiei said:

Nice site btw. Have you read anything by Grof ?







Of course. I bought my girlfriend, 'When The Impossible Happens' and she absolutely loved it. I have many of his studies/articles.



His work was ground-breaking and what is amazing is that he has managed to stay relevant and fresh after all these years.



He's truly a pioneer of the psychedelic movement.



Thank you for your input.



Have you experienced entity contact?



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"When you get the message, hang up the phone." - Alan Watts



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Calling all of them "projections of the unconscious" is quite a cop-out.



The neurotransmission is the crystalline essence of all beings.

It's far beyond what we know.



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Quote:

BrainFood said:

Quote:

Hiei said:

Nice site btw. Have you read anything by Grof ?







Of course. I bought my girlfriend, 'When The Impossible Happens' and she absolutely loved it. I have many of his studies/articles.



His work was ground-breaking and what is amazing is that he has managed to stay relevant and fresh after all these years.



He's truly a pioneer of the psychedelic movement.



Thank you for your input.



Have you experienced entity contact?









Not yet, my housemates cant take this shit seriously, so I'll have to do it on my own. I'm very excited and afraid at the same time.



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i've experienced entity contact with every dmt session i've participated in (about 6 times give or take), and saw and interacted with things that were even beyond what i experienced on dmt during my single ayahuasca ceremony. i have a very flexible world view, but at this point i'm 99% certain that what we're dealing with isn't us. that 1% is enough room for me to change my mind if i'm presented with evidence suggesting otherwise. the idea of it being part of our psyche just doesn't fit with me, at least all the way. personal symbolism and archetypes may come into play when dealing with the space, but i think the real answer to the question is as complex and mysterious as the dmt experience itself.



a friend of mine has an interesting theory that basically psychedelics, especially dmt, are tools for learning how to achieve certain states of consciousness without drugs. if you think about it, the distances involved in space travel are so vast that the technology involved to traverse any significant distant would involve traveling faster than light. thought, according to my friend, occurs at a quantum level of non-locality, meaning that information is instantly transferred. a civilization that has the means to travel faster than light might be doing this with nothing else than their brains. perhaps we're being contacted by such a civilization, and perhaps they're patiently waiting on us to figure it out so we can join them. this may or may not be true, but it's a fantastic idea and would make for great science fiction if nothing else.



the entities are a fun subject to discuss and the possibilities are endless, but i also think it's important to remember that the most significant part of a dmt trip is what you learn from it and how you integrate it into your life. some things just can't be put into any sort of rational frame of reference. and maybe they aren't meant to be, at least not yet.



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I'm up to my ears in unwritten words. - J.D. Salinger



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Quote:

Hut said:

Calling all of them "projections of the unconscious" is quite a cop-out.



The neurotransmission is the crystalline essence of all beings.

It's far beyond what we know.







I am not touting pointless reductionism at all.



I just stand in awe of Carl Jung's account of communicating with them. Not to mention the 2,500 year old Book of Enoch.



Please don't misunderstand me. I am acutely aware that these are vague metaphors; however, the consensus is quite startling.



I don't claim to have a handle on this more than anyone else; this is just my subjective view and only that.







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"When you get the message, hang up the phone." - Alan Watts



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i think the way we perceive them might be influenced by our psyche, but i am almost certain that what's on the other side of it is true intelligence. almost. i am no closer to the truth than anyone else is.



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I'm up to my ears in unwritten words. - J.D. Salinger



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I have never seen and communicated with an entity while on DMT, or pharmahuasca. my trips are always lonely.



Or, i will see some, and they will just ignore me.



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This site needs some submissions. You should probably help out...

NawMean?



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God, I want to do DMT so bad!



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I T ' S A L L T O O M U C H



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cool read. ill definately be following this thread !



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Quote:

millzy said:

i've experienced entity contact with every dmt session i've participated in (about 6 times give or take), and saw and interacted with things that were even beyond what i experienced on dmt during my single ayahuasca ceremony. i have a very flexible world view, but at this point i'm 99% certain that what we're dealing with isn't us. that 1% is enough room for me to change my mind if i'm presented with evidence suggesting otherwise. the idea of it being part of our psyche just doesn't fit with me, at least all the way. personal symbolism and archetypes may come into play when dealing with the space, but i think the real answer to the question is as complex and mysterious as the dmt experience itself.



a friend of mine has an interesting theory that basically psychedelics, especially dmt, are tools for learning how to achieve certain states of consciousness without drugs. if you think about it, the distances involved in space travel are so vast that the technology involved to traverse any significant distant would involve traveling faster than light.



thought, according to my friend, occurs at a quantum level of non-locality, meaning that information is instantly transferred. a civilization that has the means to travel faster than light might be doing this with nothing else than their brains. perhaps we're being contacted by such a civilization, and perhaps they're patiently waiting on us to figure it out so we can join them. this may or may not be true, but it's a fantastic idea and would make for great science fiction if nothing else.



the entities are a fun subject to discuss and the possibilities are endless, but i also think it's important to remember that the most significant part of a dmt trip is what you learn from it and how you integrate it into your life. some things just can't be put into any sort of rational frame of reference. and maybe they aren't meant to be, at least not yet.







Indeed, well I do believe that the entities are of a personal nature; however, they are also collectively shared in the unconscious, as we are all truly One single Self (in my opinion). The entities, no doubt, follow archetypes; especially the Trickster. They are trickster entities; I will have an entire section up on this topic in the near future.



I am not trying to merely reduce the experience to our psyche, as I am most aware that that cannot be the sole "answer." What I essentially believe is this: we all have predisposed temperaments and these boundary conditions lie in our personal unconscious. Now, when we dissolve our ego and experience the collective unconscious, the entities, as a collective archetype, follow the boundary conditions that our persona sets for us. So if we are more predisposed toward a certain type of contact experience, such as a UFO or an elf-like entity, we will have that experience due to our personal temperament.



The entities themselves seem to be an outpouring from both the collective and personal unconscious, so you are right; it cannot be solely just our psyche. But once you get down to it, we are really all just One Mind, so when you really think about it; it is "just" in our heads. Although it seems like such an alien experience, that only makes sense because the unconscious is alien to us by default of its being hidden within our Self. Repressed psychic contents are going to be experienced as "other-worldly," because we have zero frame of reference, personally or culturally, unless we transcend ourselves via esoteric knowledge, such as psychology and psychedelic plant use.



Well, that "theory" is certainly nothing new; Terence Mckenna had a similar rap for years. He believed that these compounds exist to help us communicate with the Oversoul of the planet; that which is Mother Nature. We have a symbiotic relationship with psychedelic plants; they widen our perspective with imparted knowledge and in return, we learn to treat Mother Nature with reciprocated respect. I believe that the whole space travel jargon is quite trivial; I believe the the Universe exists within our minds and any entities that come to consummation psychically would ultimately realize the utter futility in trying to communicate with other idiosyncratic beings. Essentially, the "God-realization" - that is the realization of the interconnectedness of the Universe - leads to the understanding that "all is well" and perfect as is; there is no need to communicate over light years, because we all share this same Mind. It is only that we all have different receivers for its delineation. I mean, Terence believed that Aliens were the mushroom; that the psilocybin mushrooms travel from star system to star system via panspermia for the purpose of evolving consciousness. I don't necessarily "believe" that as true, but I do definitely believe that extra terrestrials would realize that it is "pointless" per se to try to evolve other beings, because we are all One and the only way to come to realize this is through confronting ourselves; not through extra-terrestrial contact. The extra-terrestrials, no doubt, are inside of our minds, waiting for us to find them in Eternity, because I can be damn sure that they are "lonely," judging by how they are so eager to communicate when we enter the DMT world. They literally fight for your attention. It makes sense to me, that if ETs do exist, that they would attempt to communicate with us in our minds. Perhaps that can explain some of the entity contact experiences.



As far as putting things into a rational frame of reference; psychedelics are entirely irrational; they break all sorts of rules. Please don't misunderstand my intentions; I aim not to "solve" the mystery of psychedelics. I aim only to understand my subjective viewpoint in light of the collective. That is all.



Thank you for your thoughtful post.







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"When you get the message, hang up the phone." - Alan Watts



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Hut said:

Calling all of them "projections of the unconscious" is quite a cop-out.



The neurotransmission is the crystalline essence of all beings.

It's far beyond what we know.







^ Well put, although possible it's too easy of an answer (which encourages the notion as being unlikely) especially when considering the concept of infanatum.



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BrainFood said:

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millzy said:

i've experienced entity contact with every dmt session i've participated in (about 6 times give or take), and saw and interacted with things that were even beyond what i experienced on dmt during my single ayahuasca ceremony. i have a very flexible world view, but at this point i'm 99% certain that what we're dealing with isn't us. that 1% is enough room for me to change my mind if i'm presented with evidence suggesting otherwise. the idea of it being part of our psyche just doesn't fit with me, at least all the way. personal symbolism and archetypes may come into play when dealing with the space, but i think the real answer to the question is as complex and mysterious as the dmt experience itself.



a friend of mine has an interesting theory that basically psychedelics, especially dmt, are tools for learning how to achieve certain states of consciousness without drugs. if you think about it, the distances involved in space travel are so vast that the technology involved to traverse any significant distant would involve traveling faster than light.



thought, according to my friend, occurs at a quantum level of non-locality, meaning that information is instantly transferred. a civilization that has the means to travel faster than light might be doing this with nothing else than their brains. perhaps we're being contacted by such a civilization, and perhaps they're patiently waiting on us to figure it out so we can join them. this may or may not be true, but it's a fantastic idea and would make for great science fiction if nothing else.



the entities are a fun subject to discuss and the possibilities are endless, but i also think it's important to remember that the most significant part of a dmt trip is what you learn from it and how you integrate it into your life. some things just can't be put into any sort of rational frame of reference. and maybe they aren't meant to be, at least not yet.







Indeed, well I do believe that the entities are of a personal nature; however, they are also collectively shared in the unconscious, as we are all truly One single Self (in my opinion). The entities, no doubt, follow archetypes; especially the Trickster. They are trickster entities; I will have an entire section up on this topic in the near future.



I am not trying to merely reduce the experience to our psyche, as I am most aware that that cannot be the sole "answer." What I essentially believe is this: we all have predisposed temperaments and these boundary conditions lie in our personal unconscious. Now, when we dissolve our ego and experience the collective unconscious, the entities, as a collective archetype, follow the boundary conditions that our persona sets for us. So if we are more predisposed toward a certain type of contact experience, such as a UFO or an elf-like entity, we will have that experience due to our personal temperament.



The entities themselves seem to be an outpouring from both the collective and personal unconscious, so you are right; it cannot be solely just our psyche. But once you get down to it, we are really all just One Mind, so when you really think about it; it is "just" in our heads. Although it seems like such an alien experience, that only makes sense because the unconscious is alien to us by default of its being hidden within our Self. Repressed psychic contents are going to be experienced as "other-worldly," because we have zero frame of reference, personally or culturally, unless we transcend ourselves via esoteric knowledge, such as psychology and psychedelic plant use.



Well, that "theory" is certainly nothing new; Terence Mckenna had a similar rap for years. He believed that these compounds exist to help us communicate with the Oversoul of the planet; that which is Mother Nature. We have a symbiotic relationship with psychedelic plants; they widen our perspective with imparted knowledge and in return, we learn to treat Mother Nature with reciprocated respect. I believe that the whole space travel jargon is quite trivial; I believe the the Universe exists within our minds and any entities that come to consummation psychically would ultimately realize the utter futility in trying to communicate with other idiosyncratic beings. Essentially, the "God-realization" - that is the realization of the interconnectedness of the Universe - leads to the understanding that "all is well" and perfect as is; there is no need to communicate over light years, because we all share this same Mind. It is only that we all have different receivers for its delineation. I mean, Terence believed that Aliens were the mushroom; that the psilocybin mushrooms travel from star system to star system via panspermia for the purpose of evolving consciousness. I don't necessarily "believe" that as true, but I do definitely believe that extra terrestrials would realize that it is "pointless" per se to try to evolve other beings, because we are all One and the only way to come to realize this is through confronting ourselves; not through extra-terrestrial contact. The extra-terrestrials, no doubt, are inside of our minds, waiting for us to find them in Eternity, because I can be damn sure that they are "lonely," judging by how they are so eager to communicate when we enter the DMT world. They literally fight for your attention. It makes sense to me, that if ETs do exist, that they would attempt to communicate with us in our minds. Perhaps that can explain some of the entity contact experiences.



As far as putting things into a rational frame of reference; psychedelics are entirely irrational; they break all sorts of rules. Please don't misunderstand my intentions; I aim not to "solve" the mystery of psychedelics. I aim only to understand my subjective viewpoint in light of the collective. That is all.



Thank you for your thoughtful post.











oh dude, i could talk about this all day.



one thing i have to say about mckenna is that imo while he was undoubtedly an interesting thinker, highly entertaining lecturer, he really was full of shit on a lot of stuff. all that stuff about the mushrooms being from space, time wave zero, that's just nonsense. i tend to identify with more of his ideas on a philosophical level than a concrete one. i think a lot of people tend to give his crazier ideas way too much credit. joe rogan is a perfect example of someone who does this. he's a smart guy, and i dig how he's trying to bring psychedelics out in the open, but when he gets into all the mckenna space stuff imo he's not doing any favors for the psychedelic community.



anyway, on topic, the space travel stuff is just a fun idea. there's no way to test it and really it's as good of an answer as any other (which doesn't mean much when you're discussing something that is truly ineffable). i was thinking about my friend's idea the other day and had what i thought was an interesting spin on it. what if part of what we are contacting is indeed us, and our collective consciousness wasn't the universe's consciousness, just our species'? so at a macro level we're really all one mind split into billions of pieces so it can observe itself. like a huge, hyperintelligent amoeba. maybe that's the level that we'll be able to come into contact with other species, by interfacing with their hyperform (i just made that term up - cool story i know). from what i've experienced everything in the universe infinitely telescopes. i look at nations, corporations etc. in the same way. they're big social organisms. perhaps our collective consciousness is a big cosmic organism.



i dunno. like i said i don't claim to be any closer to the answer than anyone else. i just think it's a fun subject to toss around ideas on.



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I'm up to my ears in unwritten words. - J.D. Salinger



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Your idea is so cool that I wish it's true. ahah.



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thanks.



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I'm up to my ears in unwritten words. - J.D. Salinger



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millzy said:

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BrainFood said:

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millzy said:quote]







oh dude, i could talk about this all day.



one thing i have to say about mckenna is that imo while he was undoubtedly an interesting thinker, highly entertaining lecturer, he really was full of shit on a lot of stuff. all that stuff about the mushrooms being from space, time wave zero, that's just nonsense. i tend to identify with more of his ideas on a philosophical level than a concrete one. i think a lot of people tend to give his crazier ideas way too much credit. joe rogan is a perfect example of someone who does this. he's a smart guy, and i dig how he's trying to bring psychedelics out in the open, but when he gets into all the mckenna space stuff imo he's not doing any favors for the psychedelic community.



anyway, on topic, the space travel stuff is just a fun idea. there's no way to test it and really it's as good of an answer as any other (which doesn't mean much when you're discussing something that is truly ineffable). i was thinking about my friend's idea the other day and had what i thought was an interesting spin on it. what if part of what we are contacting is indeed us, and our collective consciousness wasn't the universe's consciousness, just our species'? so at a macro level we're really all one mind split into billions of pieces so it can observe itself. like a huge, hyperintelligent amoeba. maybe that's the level that we'll be able to come into contact with other species, by interfacing with their hyperform (i just made that term up - cool story i know). from what i've experienced everything in the universe infinitely telescopes. i look at nations, corporations etc. in the same way. they're big social organisms. perhaps our collective consciousness is a big cosmic organism.



i dunno. like i said i don't claim to be any closer to the answer than anyone else. i just think it's a fun subject to toss around ideas on.







I can agree that Terence went out on a limb on more than a few subjects; however, he always admitted how "flakey" he was. In fact, I believe that some of his extrapolations, while now seemingly absurd, were actually born out of his will to be weird; essentially, he had the balls to say whatever was on his peculiar mind. He was just "that" guy; the one who dared to jump off the edge and then openly discuss it. I have no doubt that he was well aware of his acute form of schizophrenia; he was just able to integrate it with his life better than most (not to mention he wrote about it extensively). So it doesn't come to me as any surprise that in looking back on some of his ideas, especially Time Waze Zero, that they were painfully idiosyncratic and even seemingly absurd. But once again, I must point out that the basic premise behind Time Wave Zero is empirically valid; novelty does fluctuate with time and there are most certainly resonances that can be delineated when taking a look at our evolution over the course of history. The old adage of history repeating is most certainly valid. However, to attempt the impossible task of finding a mathematical formula within a several thousand year old Chinense divinatory system that maps our evolution of consciousness is obviously quite mad, but when put in the context of his intellect and personal experiences, one can see how he was lead that far out into the depths of the psyche. He was quite the trickster; in fact, I believe that Terence was the first DMT elf to break through to our reality, I mean, just look at the man! He looked like a denizen of the DMT world; look into his eyes! He was the man in my book. And by the way, Joe Rogan is a complete tool. End of story, bottom line; no subjective opinion there.



Once again, this idea isn't really anything new. Gaia, as a microcosmic reflection of the macrocosmic Universe, has a collective consciousness that is the totality of all living beings experience (from bacteria to us) on a planetary level; the Universe, as the macrocosm, contains within it the totality of all consciousness in the Universe (from the potential ETs to us).



The totality of Gaia is what we have come to call God; however, it is really Mother Nature; the Oversoul of the planet (hence pagan fertility religions). Our collectively shared consciousness allows us entry into a state of timelessness; all things exist simultaneously as One whole (making travel through space pointless, as time doesn't really exist). This is Eternity. We are granted access by Nature into this state of timelessness by default of our microcosmic relation to the Universe. Since we are intrinsically part and parcel of the Universe, we have the potential to experience it as a whole - if, that is, we actively participate in our symbiotic relationship with Nature. Our Mother is our link to the Universe. Through her plants we are able to glimpse the totality of the All. Within this space, it should be of no surprise that we are met with all sorts of "beings" that attempt to convey to us an ineffable message. Whether or not they are "projections" per se really doesn't matter. What matters is that they are communicating with us in our minds and the Universe exists within our minds, so once again, it all comes down to us, because each one of us is, essentially, God. This brings me back to the Jungian interpretation that these entities are the arbiters of God's knowledge, that is, Self knowledge. Could they be aliens from another dimension? Possibly. Could they be the Oversoul of the planet and therefore the Universe, facilitating our evolution through the release of unconscious contents? I think that could be the case, but there is no true way of knowing.



All we do know is that we are part and parcel of the Universe, and by default of this relation, we have the potential to transcend time and space at will, once again, if we are able to actively seek out the catalyst for such a state of consciousness. This is grace; instinct; Nature. That is why I believe space travel is ultimately futile; the Universe exists within our minds, we just have to learn how to travel within. As the brilliant Bill Hicks said, "We are all one consciousness, experiencing itself subjectively; there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream and we are the imagination of ourselves. Einstein proved that!"



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"When you get the message, hang up the phone." - Alan Watts



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