The Abbott government is struggling to defend its new parental leave policy after the assistant treasurer, Josh Frydenberg, confirmed his family accessed both an employer scheme and the commonwealth scheme – a legitimate practice that ministers have referred to as “double dipping”.

And the finance minister, Mathias Cormann, who had a child in 2013, told the Senate his family had “worked within the system that was available at the time” but would not confirm whether that involved accessing payments for two schemes.



The government has justified its new policy to cut off access to more than one paid parental leave scheme on the grounds it was “double dipping”.



On the weekend ahead of Tuesday’s budget, the treasurer, Joe Hockey, agreed that taking parental leave through two schemes was “in many cases” fraud while the social services minister, Scott Morrison, said: “In many cases I think it is a rort.”



The communications minister, Malcolm Turnbull, distanced himself from those comments, as did Arthur Sinodinos who warned it was not a good look to “have a go” at mothers.



Turnbull said mothers were entitled to receive whatever parental leave was available, suggesting it was important to “show due empathy and concern” for mothers at an important time in their lives.



Frydenberg confirmed to David Speers on Sky News on Thursday afternoon that his family accessed both an employer scheme and the commonwealth scheme. Asked if he felt he was doing anything wrong, Frydenberg said: “Absolutely not.”



“As I’ve said, this is a system that has enabled people to be entitled to these two payments but going forward we think it’s much fairer to the taxpayer that we allow only one of the more generous scheme, whether it’s the employer or the government.”



Asked why he did not intervene when his ministerial colleagues were calling “double dipping” a “union stitch-up”, Frydenberg said: “This is an entitlement that exists under current law.”

“To be honest, David, I am hopeful of having more kids because we only have one.”



“But you won’t get the $11,500?” asked Speers.



“And do you know what, I think that’s a fairer deal for the taxpayer. I have supported the change like all of my colleagues on my side of the house do,” said Frydenberg.



Morrison said he had never suggested public servants were doing anything wrong. But he said the “rort” he had earlier referred to was the “Labor/union scheme that was set up to provide big subsidies to state and federal government employers and large companies”.



Although the Coalition voted for the PPL scheme in opposition in 2010, Morrison said he was now “fixing it”.



During question time, Labor focused on the loss of some paid parental leave benefits for mothers, including for members of the Australian Defence Force and the Australian federal police.



In the Senate, Cormann said: “I agree with Senator Sinodinos that we should treat young mothers with respect ... I agree with the sentiments expressed by Mr Turnbull.”



But asked about his own circumstances, Cormann said he and his wife had had a child in 2013. Senator Sam Dastyari asked whether his family had used two paid parental schemes, the finance minister said: “I have indeed had a little child in 2013, and ... our family of course, worked within the system that was available at the time, like any other family and that my family will work within whatever system is in place in the future.”



Samantha Page, Early Childhood Australia’s chief executive, said the new budget measure would remove the ability of parents to access both the government and employer parental leave schemes and ministers’ references to ‘double-dipping’ in the budget papers was misrepresenting legitimate utilisation of the scheme.



She said: “Indeed we applauded the government for proposing a more generous, full wage replacement scheme funded through a business levy but argued that would only be effective if combined with improved access and affordability to child care which is a major concern for many families with young children. It is a real pity that the government has chosen to not only abandon their policy but also potentially remove parents’ entitlements to their existing parental leave.”



Turnbull underlined that Tony Abbott had “changed his mind” on his earlier signature policy to extend paid parental leave but more money was being diverted to childcare.



The communications minister said he was not going to get into the “rhetoric” of double dipping.

“I will decide what words I use and the manner in which I use them. As you can see, on that John Howard note, I will take my leave,” he said.

In the budget on Tuesday, the Coalition changed the paid parental leave policy towards relying more on employer schemes, if they are available for women. As a result, nearly 80,000 women will lose some or all of their commonwealth leave payments.

Bill Shorten recalled in 2014 that at an International Women’s Day breakfast, Abbott had compared his conversion on paid parental leave to Richard Nixon’s visit to communist China.

“This is the person who had one thing he believed in above all else, the Tony Abbott stamp, this was it and of course he dropped it when the pressure was on,” Shorten said.

“This government is now so uncommitted to paid parental leave, so unfamiliar with what happens in the workplaces of Australia, what employees and employers do, that they have decided to go after a new group of villains in the community.”

The independent senator Nick Xenophon said the language around the paid parental leave argument was ridiculous. He was critical of the government’s language of “double dipping” and the ACTU president Ged Kearney’s description of the budget measure as “stealing” leave from employees.

“The language in this whole debate about PPL has been just frankly quite ridiculous,” Xenophon said.

“If women made enterprise bargaining agreements on the basis they were planning to have a child in the next three or four or five years and they have been affected by this, that doesn’t seem fair.

“So we need to look at that closely. Any change, if there is going to be a change, would need to be transitional and the government has to step away from this talk of rorting and double dipping and to listen to Arthur Sinodinos on this one.”