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My initial data set is based upon 60 games that I played in early April. The breakdown of the games is as follows:







a) 24 wins, 36 losses



b) Average number of kills = 5.5



c) Average # of beacons captured = 2.8



d) Average rating = +9.3



e) # of games that I meched out = 20 out of 40 (I didn't keep track on the first 20 games I played)



f) Except for a handful of games, the games were played on short maps (Valley, Shenzhen, Dead City, Dreadnaught, Carrier)



g) I kept track of the total (red + blue) number of kills in the game, the total beacons captures, and the total damage done in the game



h) I did not keep track of the length of each game. It is something I need to do going forward.



i) There were 12 domination games and 48 beacon rush games.







The first Figure shows the sum of repair costs plus the Ag I actually received vs. the damage I did to the red in the games. Wins have been corrected to reflect the 50% Ag boost you get so everything is apples-to-apples. You can see it is an excellent correlation:











The second Figure highlights data points for % of kills in game (red+blue) The green dots are games where I did well with kills and got >15% of all of them. Red dots are games where I did poorly and got <5% of the kills. If fraction of kills matter, the green dots should be above the trend line (I get rewarded more) and the red dots below the trend line. There might be a slight negative correlation if you don't get many kills but that is questionable. Getting more kills didn't seem to matter.













The third figure shows something analogous for beacon captures. Green dots are for games where I got more than 20% of the beacons and red dots are for those where I got less than 5%. Again there doesn't look to be much correlation.













The fourth figure shows damage. If I got >20% of the total damage in the game it is highlighted in green. Red dots are where I got <10% of the total damage (I didn't have any games where I got <5%). If I got rewarded for doing more damage than other people I would expect the data points to curve up at the higher damage levels but that doesn't seem to be the case. Similarly I would expect if I am doing less damage than others for the data points to curve down at the lower levels but again that doesn't seem to be the case.













The fifth Figure highlights Beacon Rush games as green dots. The game mode doesn't seem to affect payout. This may not be true for FFA or TDM.











The six graph highlights high damage games (>10M red+blue). Doesn't look like there is a "bonus" there.









The seven graph highlights games where beacons flipped a lot (>25 beacons captured). Again no real bonus there.









The eight graph show high kills (>50). No bonus.











Where does this leave us? There is an excellent correlation between damage you inflict and the Ag you receive (Ag in pocket + repair) but it is not perfect. Other obvious variables don't seem to matter much/at all. Perhaps the length of the game influences payout somewhat or there is some randomness built into things.







I will explore other variables such as length of game, what goes into repair costs, etc. in separate posts within this thread.

This thread is being created to talk about things affecting the payout of Ag as of 2019-04-10. Intent is to provide concrete info to help remove some FUD from this topic.My initial data set is based upon 60 games that I played in early April. The breakdown of the games is as follows:a) 24 wins, 36 lossesb) Average number of kills = 5.5c) Average # of beacons captured = 2.8d) Average rating = +9.3e) # of games that I meched out = 20 out of 40 (I didn't keep track on the first 20 games I played)f) Except for a handful of games, the games were played on short maps (Valley, Shenzhen, Dead City, Dreadnaught, Carrier)g) I kept track of the total (red + blue) number of kills in the game, the total beacons captures, and the total damage done in the gameh) I did not keep track of the length of each game. It is something I need to do going forward.i) There were 12 domination games and 48 beacon rush games.The first Figure shows the sum of repair costs plus the Ag I actually received vs. the damage I did to the red in the games. Wins have been corrected to reflect the 50% Ag boost you get so everything is apples-to-apples. You can see it is an excellent correlation:The second Figure highlights data points for % of kills in game (red+blue) The green dots are games where I did well with kills and got >15% of all of them. Red dots are games where I did poorly and got <5% of the kills. If fraction of kills matter, the green dots should be above the trend line (I get rewarded more) and the red dots below the trend line. There might be a slight negative correlation if you don't get many kills but that is questionable. Getting more kills didn't seem to matter.The third figure shows something analogous for beacon captures. Green dots are for games where I got more than 20% of the beacons and red dots are for those where I got less than 5%. Again there doesn't look to be much correlation.The fourth figure shows damage. If I got >20% of the total damage in the game it is highlighted in green. Red dots are where I got <10% of the total damage (I didn't have any games where I got <5%). If I got rewarded for doing more damage than other people I would expect the data points to curve up at the higher damage levels but that doesn't seem to be the case. Similarly I would expect if I am doing less damage than others for the data points to curve down at the lower levels but again that doesn't seem to be the case.The fifth Figure highlights Beacon Rush games as green dots. The game mode doesn't seem to affect payout. This may not be true for FFA or TDM.The six graph highlights high damage games (>10M red+blue). Doesn't look like there is a "bonus" there.The seven graph highlights games where beacons flipped a lot (>25 beacons captured). Again no real bonus there.The eight graph show high kills (>50). No bonus.Where does this leave us? There is an excellent correlation between damage you inflict and the Ag you receive (Ag in pocket + repair) but it is not perfect. Other obvious variables don't seem to matter much/at all. Perhaps the length of the game influences payout somewhat or there is some randomness built into things.I will explore other variables such as length of game, what goes into repair costs, etc. in separate posts within this thread.

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Surprisingly, my repair costs were LOWER when I meched out than when I didn't for a given amount of damage inflicted on the reds. This is obviously counter intuitive since if everything is destroyed, you would expect the bill to be higher.



I don't have an explanation for why this is so right now, I only can note the observation. This leads to perverse things where if the game is already won or lost you should go out guns blazing rather than hiding and playing it safe with your last bot. Herer is a plot showing my repair costs for games where I meched out (blue) and those where I didn't (orange). I fit both sets of data to lines and you can see the excellent correlations. Note that my play style was the same for ALL the games I played so I don't consider it to be a variable in things.Surprisingly, my repair costs were LOWER when I meched out than when I didn't for a given amount of damage inflicted on the reds. This is obviously counter intuitive since if everything is destroyed, you would expect the bill to be higher.I don't have an explanation for why this is so right now, I only can note the observation. This leads to perverse things where if the game is already won or lost you should go out guns blazing rather than hiding and playing it safe with your last bot.

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Member Back to Top Post by Rollo Tomasi on @happyfunball said: - Reserved for other items -



Seriously though, excellent work and honestly, I’m surprised at the high R2 value. I had kind of hoped that shot accuracy played part in there somewhere and was going to jokingly suggest that you add that to your data set. Something like, please record your battles and review frame-by-frame for hits and misses, lol. But at the end of the day it looks like basically Ag = f(Damage)*.9 + f(everything else)*.1 oversimplified of course.



If you have a chance, please follow up after the 5.0 release. Pix has been threatening to make rewards less damage based and include things like beacon caps at least.



Thx for posting.



Nice to see you are doing something valuable with your spare time. And I dare say that I contributed to several of those data points as my own bot scraps, repair bills and bruised ego can attest.Seriously though, excellent work and honestly, I’m surprised at the high Rvalue. I had kind of hoped that shot accuracy played part in there somewhere and was going to jokingly suggest that you add that to your data set. Something like, please record your battles and review frame-by-frame for hits and misses, lol. But at the end of the day it looks like basically Ag = f(Damage)*.9 + f(everything else)*.1 oversimplified of course.If you have a chance, please follow up after the 5.0 release. Pix has been threatening to make rewards less damage based and include things like beacon caps at least.Thx for posting.

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Member Back to Top Post by Deleted on Rollo Tomasi said: @happyfunball said: - Reserved for other items -



Seriously though, excellent work and honestly, I’m surprised at the high R2 value. I had kind of hoped that shot accuracy played part in there somewhere and was going to jokingly suggest that you add that to your data set. Something like, please record your battles and review frame-by-frame for hits and misses, lol. But at the end of the day it looks like basically Ag = f(Damage)*.9 + f(everything else)*.1 oversimplified of course.



If you have a chance, please follow up after the 5.0 release. Pix has been threatening to make rewards less damage based and include things like beacon caps at least.



Thx for posting.



Nice to see you are doing something valuable with your spare time. And I dare say that I contributed to several of those data points as my own bot scraps, repair bills and bruised ego can attest.Seriously though, excellent work and honestly, I’m surprised at the high Rvalue. I had kind of hoped that shot accuracy played part in there somewhere and was going to jokingly suggest that you add that to your data set. Something like, please record your battles and review frame-by-frame for hits and misses, lol. But at the end of the day it looks like basically Ag = f(Damage)*.9 + f(everything else)*.1 oversimplified of course.If you have a chance, please follow up after the 5.0 release. Pix has been threatening to make rewards less damage based and include things like beacon caps at least.Thx for posting.

That's basically it. You can increase your damage to get more Ag but whatever else might be adding/subtracting a little bit from your Ag is not within your control. Beacons you capture, kills you get, fraction of damage in the game don't seem to matter.



The next thing to look at is repair costs as that seems to be the biggest driver of Ag in your pocket outside of doing more damage. I still find it strange that meching out is better than not meching out, but that is what the data says. To test out the repair cost portion of things will probably upset some people in-game; can't imagine they'll like me firing rounds into a wall for 5 minutes and trying to get through a game using only one bot. That's basically it. You can increase your damage to get more Ag but whatever else might be adding/subtracting a little bit from your Ag is not within your control. Beacons you capture, kills you get, fraction of damage in the game don't seem to matter.The next thing to look at is repair costs as that seems to be the biggest driver of Ag in your pocket outside of doing more damage. I still find it strange that meching out is better than not meching out, but that is what the data says. To test out the repair cost portion of things will probably upset some people in-game; can't imagine they'll like me firing rounds into a wall for 5 minutes and trying to get through a game using only one bot.

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Member Back to Top Post by Rollo Tomasi on @happyfunball said: Rollo Tomasi said:

Thx for posting.



—-Thx for posting.



The next thing to look at is repair costs as that seems to be the biggest driver of Ag in your pocket outside of doing more damage. I still find it strange that meching out is better than not meching out, but that is what the data says. To test out the repair cost portion of things will probably upset some people in-game; can't imagine they'll like me firing rounds into a wall for 5 minutes and trying to get through a game using only one bot. That's basically it. You can increase your damage to get more Ag but whatever else might be adding/subtracting a little bit from your Ag is not within your control. Beacons you capture, kills you get, fraction of damage in the game don't seem to matter.The next thing to look at is repair costs as that seems to be the biggest driver of Ag in your pocket outside of doing more damage. I still find it strange that meching out is better than not meching out, but that is what the data says. To test out the repair cost portion of things will probably upset some people in-game; can't imagine they'll like me firing rounds into a wall for 5 minutes and trying to get through a game using only one bot.



Too bad custom matches are 0 ag, you could do controlled smurf tests all kinds of variables. If you have the variety, you could try a light HP hanger vs. hvy. E.g. falcon vs. Leo. Somewhat similar damage output, but very different repair costs, assuming repair costs are a simple function of total damage taken rather than something more complex like damage % of your total hanger.Too bad custom matches are 0 ag, you could do controlled smurf tests all kinds of variables.

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Member Back to Top Post by Deleted on @happyfunball said:









Surprisingly, my repair costs were LOWER when I meched out than when I didn't for a given amount of damage inflicted on the reds. This is obviously counter intuitive since if everything is destroyed, you would expect the bill to be higher.



I don't have an explanation for why this is so right now, I only can note the observation. This leads to perverse things where if the game is already won or lost you should go out guns blazing rather than hiding and playing it safe with your last bot. Herer is a plot showing my repair costs for games where I meched out (blue) and those where I didn't (orange). I fit both sets of data to lines and you can see the excellent correlations. Note that my play style was the same for ALL the games I played so I don't consider it to be a variable in things.Surprisingly, my repair costs were LOWER when I meched out than when I didn't for a given amount of damage inflicted on the reds. This is obviously counter intuitive since if everything is destroyed, you would expect the bill to be higher.I don't have an explanation for why this is so right now, I only can note the observation. This leads to perverse things where if the game is already won or lost you should go out guns blazing rather than hiding and playing it safe with your last bot.



Then rerun your tests for kills and beacon captures per game.



Actually, it would be better if you could just collect more games, so you could also separate out kills vs beacon captures too into different data sets.



Already by looking at your graph (and by analyzing my own previous data), the kills do matter and most tend to fall above "the line". Beacons give 5K for each capture, and +50% for a win, so getting beacons do add to your purse.



If you want to create more skewed data (more kill or less kills), then consider the bots and weapons you're running. I notice with assassin bots like the ork spec in my hanger, I get way more kills each match and my payouts seem to be at the top range (basically above "the line"). That's because I can either go for the kill, or I have the DPS to finish off the bot by myself really fast without someone stealing it. Using my ranged bots like TT Fury, some blue brawler who's closer to the action and with higher DPS will usually reach the target first and finish it off. While my Tridents have just eaten away a large chunk of the red's health, but now it's reloading. Or put in a Weyland and base it, and watch your results at the end. High dmg scores with really really low kill counts. Yep, I notice I am way, waaaaay below "the line". But again, it's not too bad as the formula only limits payouts to a small range, so you can only be +10% or -10% from the line. I would split the data into 2 sets, and then rerun all your analysis. One set is where you meched out. Second set is where you had bots left at end of match.Then rerun your tests for kills and beacon captures per game.Actually, it would be better if you could just collect more games, so you could also separate out kills vs beacon captures too into different data sets.Already by looking at your graph (and by analyzing my own previous data), the kills do matter and most tend to fall above "the line". Beacons give 5K for each capture, and +50% for a win, so getting beacons do add to your purse.If you want to create more skewed data (more kill or less kills), then consider the bots and weapons you're running. I notice with assassin bots like the ork spec in my hanger, I get way more kills each match and my payouts seem to be at the top range (basically above "the line"). That's because I can either go for the kill, or I have the DPS to finish off the bot by myself really fast without someone stealing it. Using my ranged bots like TT Fury, some blue brawler who's closer to the action and with higher DPS will usually reach the target first and finish it off. While my Tridents have just eaten away a large chunk of the red's health, but now it's reloading. Or put in a Weyland and base it, and watch your results at the end. High dmg scores with really really low kill counts. Yep, I notice I am way, waaaaay below "the line". But again, it's not too bad as the formula only limits payouts to a small range, so you can only be +10% or -10% from the line.

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Member Back to Top Post by Deleted on @happyfunball said: Rollo Tomasi said:



Seriously though, excellent work and honestly, I’m surprised at the high R2 value. I had kind of hoped that shot accuracy played part in there somewhere and was going to jokingly suggest that you add that to your data set. Something like, please record your battles and review frame-by-frame for hits and misses, lol. But at the end of the day it looks like basically Ag = f(Damage)*.9 + f(everything else)*.1 oversimplified of course.



If you have a chance, please follow up after the 5.0 release. Pix has been threatening to make rewards less damage based and include things like beacon caps at least.



Thx for posting.



Nice to see you are doing something valuable with your spare time. And I dare say that I contributed to several of those data points as my own bot scraps, repair bills and bruised ego can attest.Seriously though, excellent work and honestly, I’m surprised at the high Rvalue. I had kind of hoped that shot accuracy played part in there somewhere and was going to jokingly suggest that you add that to your data set. Something like, please record your battles and review frame-by-frame for hits and misses, lol. But at the end of the day it looks like basically Ag = f(Damage)*.9 + f(everything else)*.1 oversimplified of course.If you have a chance, please follow up after the 5.0 release. Pix has been threatening to make rewards less damage based and include things like beacon caps at least.Thx for posting.



The next thing to look at is repair costs as that seems to be the biggest driver of Ag in your pocket outside of doing more damage. I still find it strange that meching out is better than not meching out, but that is what the data says. To test out the repair cost portion of things will probably upset some people in-game; can't imagine they'll like me firing rounds into a wall for 5 minutes and trying to get through a game using only one bot. That's basically it. You can increase your damage to get more Ag but whatever else might be adding/subtracting a little bit from your Ag is not within your control. Beacons you capture, kills you get, fraction of damage in the game don't seem to matter.The next thing to look at is repair costs as that seems to be the biggest driver of Ag in your pocket outside of doing more damage. I still find it strange that meching out is better than not meching out, but that is what the data says. To test out the repair cost portion of things will probably upset some people in-game; can't imagine they'll like me firing rounds into a wall for 5 minutes and trying to get through a game using only one bot.



I used to survive some games with my TT Fury intact, not a scratch on it. The numbers are from the top of my head, but should be close to what's really happening.

So before I had about:

1M dmg, repairs ~250K, Ag payout is 300K

And with a perfect game:

1M dmg, repairs 0, Ag payout is 300K + 250K = 550K



Now with a perfect game after Ag nerf:

1M dmg, repairs 0, Ag payout is 360K.



That's why I've been saying the repair costs are bogus, and it's made to really fit the line. Because pixo is trying to control how much you make.





Another thing your graph leaves out is win rate, another parameter that pixo controls. And is probably the biggest factor for Ag payout. Even if you earn more Ag than you should with great games, kills, beacons, dmg, wins, etc. Then it'll try to even it out and give you more losses. I farmed alot of Ag at the start of this month, and made "more than I should". Well, starting a couple days ago, I hit a major downhill slide and it wasn't even funny. I don't need to collect data to prove anything here. I just look at the matchups on either side after the match, and know it was 100% unwinnable and rigged. Last night, I had 2 guys with 10K points on red, and I was the highest on my team with 5700. There's also a thread today about this and the extremely bad teammates some are getting. Win rate was down to 16% for me, and I was trying to win, doing lots of dmg, etc.



When I say it's rigged, i'm also not saying it out of frustration or anger or exaggerating. I know it's rigged because I was looking at all the matchups after each match. There's no need to data collect, because the data is there after each match. I just need to examine the data myself and see if each match was balanced, and it wasn't. That's because repair costs used to be a big loophole and way to earn way more Ag. But then someone posted about it, and then pixo changed the fornula of how repair costs work, and they must have come up with this mess that's backwards. They were probably no checks done to see if the repair costs for scratching 1 bot were less than losing your entire hanger.I used to survive some games with my TT Fury intact, not a scratch on it. The numbers are from the top of my head, but should be close to what's really happening.So before I had about:1M dmg, repairs ~250K, Ag payout is 300KAnd with a perfect game:1M dmg, repairs 0, Ag payout is 300K + 250K = 550KNow with a perfect game after Ag nerf:1M dmg, repairs 0, Ag payout is 360K.That's why I've been saying the repair costs are bogus, and it's made to really fit the line. Because pixo is trying to control how much you make.Another thing your graph leaves out is win rate, another parameter that pixo controls. And is probably the biggest factor for Ag payout. Even if you earn more Ag than you should with great games, kills, beacons, dmg, wins, etc. Then it'll try to even it out and give you more losses. I farmed alot of Ag at the start of this month, and made "more than I should". Well, starting a couple days ago, I hit a major downhill slide and it wasn't even funny. I don't need to collect data to prove anything here. I just look at the matchups on either side after the match, and know it was 100% unwinnable and rigged. Last night, I had 2 guys with 10K points on red, and I was the highest on my team with 5700. There's also a thread today about this and the extremely bad teammates some are getting. Win rate was down to 16% for me, and I was trying to win, doing lots of dmg, etc.When I say it's rigged, i'm also not saying it out of frustration or anger or exaggerating. I know it's rigged because I was looking at all the matchups after each match. There's no need to data collect, because the data is there after each match. I just need to examine the data myself and see if each match was balanced, and it wasn't.

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Member Back to Top Post by Deleted on @fixthetridents said: @happyfunball said:









Surprisingly, my repair costs were LOWER when I meched out than when I didn't for a given amount of damage inflicted on the reds. This is obviously counter intuitive since if everything is destroyed, you would expect the bill to be higher.



I don't have an explanation for why this is so right now, I only can note the observation. This leads to perverse things where if the game is already won or lost you should go out guns blazing rather than hiding and playing it safe with your last bot. Herer is a plot showing my repair costs for games where I meched out (blue) and those where I didn't (orange). I fit both sets of data to lines and you can see the excellent correlations. Note that my play style was the same for ALL the games I played so I don't consider it to be a variable in things.Surprisingly, my repair costs were LOWER when I meched out than when I didn't for a given amount of damage inflicted on the reds. This is obviously counter intuitive since if everything is destroyed, you would expect the bill to be higher.I don't have an explanation for why this is so right now, I only can note the observation. This leads to perverse things where if the game is already won or lost you should go out guns blazing rather than hiding and playing it safe with your last bot.



Then rerun your tests for kills and beacon captures per game.



Actually, it would be better if you could just collect more games, so you could also separate out kills vs beacon captures too into different data sets.



Already by looking at your graph (and by analyzing my own previous data), the kills do matter and most tend to fall above "the line". Beacons give 5K for each capture, and +50% for a win, so getting beacons do add to your purse.



If you want to create more skewed data (more kill or less kills), then consider the bots and weapons you're running. I notice with assassin bots like the ork spec in my hanger, I get way more kills each match and my payouts seem to be at the top range (basically above "the line"). That's because I can either go for the kill, or I have the DPS to finish off the bot by myself really fast without someone stealing it. Using my ranged bots like TT Fury, some blue brawler who's closer to the action and with higher DPS will usually reach the target first and finish it off. While my Tridents have just eaten away a large chunk of the red's health, but now it's reloading. Or put in a Weyland and base it, and watch your results at the end. High dmg scores with really really low kill counts. Yep, I notice I am way, waaaaay below "the line". But again, it's not too bad as the formula only limits payouts to a small range, so you can only be +10% or -10% from the line. I would split the data into 2 sets, and then rerun all your analysis. One set is where you meched out. Second set is where you had bots left at end of match.Then rerun your tests for kills and beacon captures per game.Actually, it would be better if you could just collect more games, so you could also separate out kills vs beacon captures too into different data sets.Already by looking at your graph (and by analyzing my own previous data), the kills do matter and most tend to fall above "the line". Beacons give 5K for each capture, and +50% for a win, so getting beacons do add to your purse.If you want to create more skewed data (more kill or less kills), then consider the bots and weapons you're running. I notice with assassin bots like the ork spec in my hanger, I get way more kills each match and my payouts seem to be at the top range (basically above "the line"). That's because I can either go for the kill, or I have the DPS to finish off the bot by myself really fast without someone stealing it. Using my ranged bots like TT Fury, some blue brawler who's closer to the action and with higher DPS will usually reach the target first and finish it off. While my Tridents have just eaten away a large chunk of the red's health, but now it's reloading. Or put in a Weyland and base it, and watch your results at the end. High dmg scores with really really low kill counts. Yep, I notice I am way, waaaaay below "the line". But again, it's not too bad as the formula only limits payouts to a small range, so you can only be +10% or -10% from the line.



TO your suggestion, here's the data set split between meched out and not-meched out.







At 1M damage the difference in Ag+repair is <10k or 2.4% relative. At 500k damage it is 37k or 15%. With more data the two lines may converge.



I think the repair costs are going to be very interesting. I just played a game using only a Pulsar Spectre. The Spectre lasted through the whole game. I did 766k damage in the losing effort. Gross Ag was 212.5k with repair costs of 22.5k Ag and 190k Ag into pocket. I had a previous "normal" game where I ran my standard lineup and did 782k in gamage also in a losing effort. Gross Ag was 319k with repair costs of 136k and 182k Ag into pocket. This is what it looks like on initial graph:









Its a single data point for now, but I find it interesting that the Ag into pocket is the same between the two yet the repair costs vary widely. I will probably have to do some analysis that just looks at net Ag as these repair costs may be bogus.



Edit: I see you made another post after I started this one... I agree the repair costs are probably bogus but I need further data on my end. Can you present your data so that everyone can see it? With an R^2 of >0.9 between damage and repair+Ag, I wasn't planning on running this through something like Minitab; I'm not sure a slight improvement in precision affects anything.TO your suggestion, here's the data set split between meched out and not-meched out.At 1M damage the difference in Ag+repair is <10k or 2.4% relative. At 500k damage it is 37k or 15%. With more data the two lines may converge.I think the repair costs are going to be very interesting. I just played a game using only a Pulsar Spectre. The Spectre lasted through the whole game. I did 766k damage in the losing effort. Gross Ag was 212.5k with repair costs of 22.5k Ag and 190k Ag into pocket. I had a previous "normal" game where I ran my standard lineup and did 782k in gamage also in a losing effort. Gross Ag was 319k with repair costs of 136k and 182k Ag into pocket. This is what it looks like on initial graph:Its a single data point for now, but I find it interesting that the Ag into pocket is the same between the two yet the repair costs vary widely. I will probably have to do some analysis that just looks at net Ag as these repair costs may be bogus.Edit: I see you made another post after I started this one... I agree the repair costs are probably bogus but I need further data on my end.

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Member Back to Top Post by frunobulax on @fixthetridents said:

That's why I've been saying the repair costs are bogus, and it's made to really fit the line. Because pixo is trying to control how much you make.

That's why I've been saying the repair costs are bogus, and it's made to really fit the line. Because pixo is trying to control how much you make.



They are. But they do seem to depend on your hangar. A couple of months ago I switched from a level 12 old-meta hangar (Spectre/Dash) to a level 10ish hangar (Tempest Molot Natty, Taran Kumiho etc.). The damage decreased but payout increased, and I noticed that repair costs went down.



Also, I wonder if BR really pays as much as Dom. My rule of thumb is that I can make 5 million per 30 minutes gameplay with VIP and a gold booster, and this figure seems to be almost completely different of the game mode. As I average almost the same damage but play more games in BR, this should translate into a lower payout, even though maybe only something moderate like 15% less.

They are. But they do seem to depend on your hangar. A couple of months ago I switched from a level 12 old-meta hangar (Spectre/Dash) to a level 10ish hangar (Tempest Molot Natty, Taran Kumiho etc.). The damage decreased but payout increased, and I noticed that repair costs went down.Also, I wonder if BR really pays as much as Dom. My rule of thumb is that I can make 5 million per 30 minutes gameplay with VIP and a gold booster, and this figure seems to be almost completely different of the game mode. As I average almost the same damage but play more games in BR, this should translate into a lower payout, even though maybe only something moderate like 15% less.

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If I assume beacons and kills don't matter I had an R^2 of 0.92.









I tried to maximize R^2 by letting Solver in Excel figure out how much a beacon is worth and how much a kill is worth. Solver could get R^2 up to 0.94 by valuing a beacon at 6500 Ag and a kill at 7500 Ag. R^2 was up to 0.94:









Whether this is real or not, I can't say. I would probably have to run some games where I just tried to get beacons and no damage to confirm things. Regardless, damage is the key parameter in all this unless you are really just starting out and only getting 100k in damage or the like. In that case you probably don't get many kills but grabbing beacons would help. Again, don't know with certainty whether this is real or not. I looked at my original graph of Repair + Ag non-premium vs. damage. I did so to see if there is much of a correlation with either beacons or kills.If I assume beacons and kills don't matter I had an R^2 of 0.92.I tried to maximize R^2 by letting Solver in Excel figure out how much a beacon is worth and how much a kill is worth. Solver could get R^2 up to 0.94 by valuing a beacon at 6500 Ag and a kill at 7500 Ag. R^2 was up to 0.94:Whether this is real or not, I can't say. I would probably have to run some games where I just tried to get beacons and no damage to confirm things. Regardless, damage is the key parameter in all this unless you are really just starting out and only getting 100k in damage or the like. In that case you probably don't get many kills but grabbing beacons would help. Again, don't know with certainty whether this is real or not.

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Member Back to Top Post by ::momentum:: on @happyfunball said:









Surprisingly, my repair costs were LOWER when I meched out than when I didn't for a given amount of damage inflicted on the reds. This is obviously counter intuitive since if everything is destroyed, you would expect the bill to be higher.



I don't have an explanation for why this is so right now, I only can note the observation. This leads to perverse things where if the game is already won or lost you should go out guns blazing rather than hiding and playing it safe with your last bot. Herer is a plot showing my repair costs for games where I meched out (blue) and those where I didn't (orange). I fit both sets of data to lines and you can see the excellent correlations. Note that my play style was the same for ALL the games I played so I don't consider it to be a variable in things.Surprisingly, my repair costs were LOWER when I meched out than when I didn't for a given amount of damage inflicted on the reds. This is obviously counter intuitive since if everything is destroyed, you would expect the bill to be higher.I don't have an explanation for why this is so right now, I only can note the observation. This leads to perverse things where if the game is already won or lost you should go out guns blazing rather than hiding and playing it safe with your last bot.



It's like the damage inflicted on your bot progressively getting worse which translates to higher repair costs. The analogy I see is that if you have a small cut the longer you leave it unattended the worse the wound gets and your health suffers as you bleed out.



The only effective way to test the "damage over time costs more to repair" theory might be to run 2 full squads where 10 players stay idle whilst two pilots damage each other with pre-determined weapons.





It has been a while - but if I remember this correctly there is a Silver penalty that grows with time when you have a damaged bot.It's like the damage inflicted on your bot progressively getting worse which translates to higher repair costs. The analogy I see is that if you have a small cut the longer you leave it unattended the worse the wound gets and your health suffers as you bleed out.The only effective way to test the "damage over time costs more to repair" theory might be to run 2 full squads where 10 players stay idle whilst two pilots damage each other with pre-determined weapons.

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Member Back to Top Post by Pulse Hadron on

war-robots-forum.freeforums.net/thread/20552/repair-cost-statistics-after-matches



There appears to be a limiting percentage of repair to net, like repair is usually 60% of net but never more and only sometimes less. If this limit is still there then analyze only games where repair is less than the limit, or something to account for the cap. Seems that has to be factored in somehow. Try plotting repair vs net Ag like kukurukukuk did here...There appears to be a limiting percentage of repair to net, like repair is usually 60% of net but never more and only sometimes less. If this limit is still there then analyze only games where repair is less than the limit, or something to account for the cap. Seems that has to be factored in somehow.

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Member Back to Top Post by snk on @happyfunball said:









Surprisingly, my repair costs were LOWER when I meched out than when I didn't for a given amount of damage inflicted on the reds. This is obviously counter intuitive since if everything is destroyed, you would expect the bill to be higher.



I don't have an explanation for why this is so right now, I only can note the observation. This leads to perverse things where if the game is already won or lost you should go out guns blazing rather than hiding and playing it safe with your last bot. Herer is a plot showing my repair costs for games where I meched out (blue) and those where I didn't (orange). I fit both sets of data to lines and you can see the excellent correlations. Note that my play style was the same for ALL the games I played so I don't consider it to be a variable in things.Surprisingly, my repair costs were LOWER when I meched out than when I didn't for a given amount of damage inflicted on the reds. This is obviously counter intuitive since if everything is destroyed, you would expect the bill to be higher.I don't have an explanation for why this is so right now, I only can note the observation. This leads to perverse things where if the game is already won or lost you should go out guns blazing rather than hiding and playing it safe with your last bot. I assume when you meched out, the chance you are losing is higher, so no winning bonus lead to lower Ag reward. Probably lower Ag reward will have lower repair cost too.

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Member Back to Top Post by Deleted on snk said: @happyfunball said:









Surprisingly, my repair costs were LOWER when I meched out than when I didn't for a given amount of damage inflicted on the reds. This is obviously counter intuitive since if everything is destroyed, you would expect the bill to be higher.



I don't have an explanation for why this is so right now, I only can note the observation. This leads to perverse things where if the game is already won or lost you should go out guns blazing rather than hiding and playing it safe with your last bot. Herer is a plot showing my repair costs for games where I meched out (blue) and those where I didn't (orange). I fit both sets of data to lines and you can see the excellent correlations. Note that my play style was the same for ALL the games I played so I don't consider it to be a variable in things.Surprisingly, my repair costs were LOWER when I meched out than when I didn't for a given amount of damage inflicted on the reds. This is obviously counter intuitive since if everything is destroyed, you would expect the bill to be higher.I don't have an explanation for why this is so right now, I only can note the observation. This leads to perverse things where if the game is already won or lost you should go out guns blazing rather than hiding and playing it safe with your last bot. I assume when you meched out, the chance you are losing is higher, so no winning bonus lead to lower Ag reward. Probably lower Ag reward will have lower repair cost too. For all of my wins I divide repair + Ag in pocket by 1.5 to normalize everything to the same basis. I haven't plotted Ag in pocket vs repair yet as I am busy gathering data right now. Probably tomorrow.

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Member Back to Top Post by Deleted on T34 said: baracus said:



This is from several months ago. Although it was two different modes, the damage is very close. In one, I destroyed all my bots before I was killed and had zero repair costs. I came in 1st place both times.

Yep, that's a 40% drop in silver payout. I reckon that is close to what actually happened.





Here's the patch notes

warrobots.com/en/posts/210



@happyfunball



You might want to take the modes into account. DOM should pay a little more than BR. And use your data to verify this.



Notes say +10%, but I swear it was 1/3 more for DOM vs BR after this update. Not sure if they went in and updated/nerfed the numbers later on. I played DOM more after this patch. TDM and DOM should have more silver rewards. About 1/3 more for TDM.Here's the patch notes@happyfunballYou might want to take the modes into account. DOM should pay a little more than BR. And use your data to verify this.Notes say +10%, but I swear it was 1/3 more for DOM vs BR after this update. Not sure if they went in and updated/nerfed the numbers later on. I played DOM more after this patch.

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Member Back to Top Post by Deleted on @fixthetridents said: T34 said:

Yep, that's a 40% drop in silver payout. I reckon that is close to what actually happened.





Here's the patch notes

warrobots.com/en/posts/210



@happyfunball



You might want to take the modes into account. DOM should pay a little more than BR. And use your data to verify this.



Notes say +10%, but I swear it was 1/3 more for DOM vs BR after this update. Not sure if they went in and updated/nerfed the numbers later on. I played DOM more after this patch. TDM and DOM should have more silver rewards. About 1/3 more for TDM.Here's the patch notes@happyfunballYou might want to take the modes into account. DOM should pay a little more than BR. And use your data to verify this.Notes say +10%, but I swear it was 1/3 more for DOM vs BR after this update. Not sure if they went in and updated/nerfed the numbers later on. I played DOM more after this patch. Thanks. Right now it is a minor thing (DOM vs. BR), if anything. I show the difference between the two made in Figure 5 of the original post. I'll generate an explicit comparison (line fits) tomorrow. Don't do TDM.

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Member Back to Top Post by Deleted on @happyfunball said:







If I assume beacons and kills don't matter I had an R^2 of 0.92.









I tried to maximize R^2 by letting Solver in Excel figure out how much a beacon is worth and how much a kill is worth. Solver could get R^2 up to 0.94 by valuing a beacon at 6500 Ag and a kill at 7500 Ag. R^2 was up to 0.94:









Whether this is real or not, I can't say. I would probably have to run some games where I just tried to get beacons and no damage to confirm things. Regardless, damage is the key parameter in all this unless you are really just starting out and only getting 100k in damage or the like. In that case you probably don't get many kills but grabbing beacons would help. Again, don't know with certainty whether this is real or not. I looked at my original graph of Repair + Ag non-premium vs. damage. I did so to see if there is much of a correlation with either beacons or kills.If I assume beacons and kills don't matter I had an R^2 of 0.92.I tried to maximize R^2 by letting Solver in Excel figure out how much a beacon is worth and how much a kill is worth. Solver could get R^2 up to 0.94 by valuing a beacon at 6500 Ag and a kill at 7500 Ag. R^2 was up to 0.94:Whether this is real or not, I can't say. I would probably have to run some games where I just tried to get beacons and no damage to confirm things. Regardless, damage is the key parameter in all this unless you are really just starting out and only getting 100k in damage or the like. In that case you probably don't get many kills but grabbing beacons would help. Again, don't know with certainty whether this is real or not.



Beacons and kills do matter a little, but I wouldn't go and change my playstyle.



Would be interesting to get like 20+ kills in a match and 20+ beacons and see what happens. Maybe all the data is so close to the line because no one can get that many kills or beacons?



Is it possible to take away the kills+beacons based on their Ag worth, and then see a graph of how close the payouts scale with dmg then? Basically how much silver do you make for each 100K of dmg. So it's like if you could play and collect data from games where you did dmg, but got no kills or beacons in any of those games. Or you played 5 weylands and healed all game.



Anyway I did this months ago just by collecting data from a dozen matches, and then just eyeballing it and noticing the patterns. It's pretty easy to spot the value of kills and all that. But there's still only a 95% correlation I found, so that last 5% could be critical hits that the system used to track and tell you after the match back when it was called Walking War Robots.



Do you have older data from a few months ago? That way we can say for certain whether the payouts have been reduced recently? Yea, this is what I found too. You can play skirmish, and verify it. It's 5K for each beacon in a loss, and 7.5K in a W. Kills are worth 7.5K each in a win.Beacons and kills do matter a little, but I wouldn't go and change my playstyle.Would be interesting to get like 20+ kills in a match and 20+ beacons and see what happens. Maybe all the data is so close to the line because no one can get that many kills or beacons?Is it possible to take away the kills+beacons based on their Ag worth, and then see a graph of how close the payouts scale with dmg then? Basically how much silver do you make for each 100K of dmg. So it's like if you could play and collect data from games where you did dmg, but got no kills or beacons in any of those games. Or you played 5 weylands and healed all game.Anyway I did this months ago just by collecting data from a dozen matches, and then just eyeballing it and noticing the patterns. It's pretty easy to spot the value of kills and all that. But there's still only a 95% correlation I found, so that last 5% could be critical hits that the system used to track and tell you after the match back when it was called Walking War Robots.Do you have older data from a few months ago? That way we can say for certain whether the payouts have been reduced recently?