David Baddiel has defended giving a platform to a Holocaust denier in a BBC documentary after a veteran lawyer warned him against allowing antisemites airtime.

In Confronting Holocaust Denial with David Baddiel, the Jewish comedian interviewed a man who claimed Auschwitz, the Nazi death camp in German-occupied Poland, had a swimming pool and no gas chambers, that Jews controlled the BBC and that the purchase of German-made cars by Jews cast doubt on the veracity of the Nazi genocide.

Baddiel, who described his encounter with Dermot Mulqueen as “one of the weirdest moments” of his life, said he and the film’s director had wrestled with whether to interview a Holocaust denier. Despite fears of legitimising racial hatred and “fanning the flames” of denial, Baddiel said: “If you’re going to talk about the devil, at some point you’ve got to meet the devil.”

But Anthony Julius, who successfully defended the American historian Deborah Lipstadt in a libel suit brought by the Holocaust denier David Irving, told Baddiel: “You don’t need to give these people airtime – so don’t.” The lawyer argued that he and Lipstadt had been forced to confront Irving in 1996 only because of the court case.

Anthony Julius. Photograph: Graeme Robertson/The Guardian

Baddiel responded to Julius by arguing that Holocaust deniers already had airtime on social media, if not on mainstream television.“The world is different now,” he said.

The hour-long documentary, one of several BBC programmes marking the 75th anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz, examines Holocaust denial from the time of the second world war to its prevalence on social media today.

Baddiel, whose grandparents fled Nazi Germany, also confronted Richard Allan, a former Liberal Democrat who is Facebook’s director of policy in Europe, about the social media platform’s tolerance of Holocaust denial.

Allan told Baddiel: “We have a policy on hate speech so direct attacks on Jewish people will come off the platform. But to make the wrong statement about the facts of the Holocaust – ‘I do not think the Holocaust happened’, or ‘I think the Holocaust happened with this number of people dead or that number of people dead’ – may be permitted on the platform.”

In response, Baddiel said Holocaust denial was “a direct way of saying Jews are liars, Jews have tricked the world for their own gain, Jews are the most evil, pernicious race that exist. It is hate speech. There’s no other conclusion.”

In a Q&A following a preview of the documentary, Baddiel said social media had allowed Holocaust deniers a platform from which to spread their message. “Our culture is being shaped by trolls and the Holocaust deniers are a very extreme example of the trolls. Ignoring them has not worked. It doesn’t mean that confronting them will work completely but I think it’s a debate we have to have.

“Unfortunately, we no longer live in a culture where what is spoken about and what truths are told and what lies are told are objective any more, so my personal feeling is that you have to try to take them on.”

The comedian felt “very nervous” about meeting Mulqueen, and was reluctant to shake his hand but “when he appeared I felt like there was no choice … I didn’t want to do it, then I did.”

He said: “I sort of knew I wouldn’t change his mind but I felt it was important for people to see the ludicrousness of this position.”

Mulqueen told Baddiel that if the Holocaust had happened, Jews would not buy German cars. Baddiel replied that he owned an Audi, adding: “That proves, does it, that the Holocaust didn’t happen?” Mulqueen responded: “Well, it does raise questions.”

David Baddiel with Rachel Levy, a Holocaust survivor. Photograph: Production/BBC/Wall to Wall Media Ltd

After the encounter, which takes up about five minutes of the hour-long programme, Baddiel said to camera: “However mad Dermot seems … people believe this shit.”

The programme ends with an interview with Rachel Levy, who survived Auschwitz and Bergen-Belsen. “What makes sense to me is hearing [Levy’s] ultra-powerful testimony after hearing [Mulqueen’s] lies,” said Baddiel.

Confronting Holocaust Denial with David Baddiel will be shown on BBC2 at 9pm on Monday 17 February.



