harryhans3n

Destrier



Posts: 78

Karma: 70

Destrier A flawed Rating Points Distribution. Quote Select Post

Select Post Deselect Post

Deselect Post Link to Post

Link to Post Member Give Gift

Member Back to Top Post by harryhans3n on



Tanking, Mis-Matched games, Long Waiting time for Match making in higher tiers, Uneven playing field in a 6v6 in all tiers.



All these are symptoms of a flawed Rating points distribution as described here :-

warrobots.net/en/posts/153



When the League Tier was introduced 1 year ago, I could see how badly it was designed. It was suppose to solve the Gepard Triple magnum "epidemic" but instead spawned a new generation of "farmers" now known as "tankers". Players who can use this rating points knowledge to farm more effectively.



The crux of the problem lies in the FIXATED rating points distribution at post battle result.



You win 1st place, you are guaranteed minimum 13 points

You lose 6th place, you are guaranteed -22 points



The shouldn't be right. The rating points should be varied depending on a number of factors, and the algorithm behind calculating the rating points for everyone in the game should be unknown and hidden.



The algorithm should encompass factors like :-

i) Your best hangar setup recorded.

ii) Your performance against the other 99 players in the same tier as you are.

iii) your performance over a duration of 2 weeks, compared to the general movement of other tiers fluctuating

iv) Comparing your status against the various tier trends, or mean/median value of different tiers.



What ever Pixonic uses to calculate the rating points that should be given to you... ultimately it boils down this simple phrase.



"It is very difficult to lose rating points but very easy to gain it back if your performance and hangar surpasses 95% of the others in the same league"

and

"It is very hard to gain rating points, but very easy to lose rating points regardless of how skillfull you are if your hangar is not up to par against others in the same tier as you"



Ultimately over a period of time.. everyone will be placed according in their respective tiers based on other players around it, skill and hangar setup.. and fluctuation will be limited to 3 tiers up or 3 tiers down.



Unlike the present environment where Champions capable players can drop to Diamond, or Expert capable players can drop 12 tiers down to Bronze.



All the LPQ solutions are nothing but short term band aids to the predicament. Pixonic no longer have any interest in looking at the long term stability of the game. The tanker report form is another one... again ... something that looks like a one-off short term answer to appease the growing frustrations of players seeing other players just changing 4 bots in the first 10 seconds of the game or seeing other players playing in Bronze tier. For all that counts, LPQ is a total failure as well. If it is a success, then there won't be any need for a Tanker report form.



Someone mentioned, Mail.Ru will most likely sell of Pixonic in 18 months. I don't have any doubts about it given the way things are handled at the moment.







I written about this some 10 months ago in Reddit but fallen to deaf ears by Pixonic. Either they are not interested to solve it for the long term goodness of the game, or they rather spend time monetizing the game and giving band aid solutions to the problems.Tanking, Mis-Matched games, Long Waiting time for Match making in higher tiers, Uneven playing field in a 6v6 in all tiers.All these are symptoms of a flawed Rating points distribution as described here :-When the League Tier was introduced 1 year ago, I could see how badly it was designed. It was suppose to solve the Gepard Triple magnum "epidemic" but instead spawned a new generation of "farmers" now known as "tankers". Players who can use this rating points knowledge to farm more effectively.The crux of the problem lies in the FIXATED rating points distribution at post battle result.You win 1st place, you are guaranteed minimum 13 pointsYou lose 6th place, you are guaranteed -22 pointsThe shouldn't be right. The rating points should be varied depending on a number of factors, and the algorithm behind calculating the rating points for everyone in the game should be unknown and hidden.The algorithm should encompass factors like :-i) Your best hangar setup recorded.ii) Your performance against the other 99 players in the same tier as you are.iii) your performance over a duration of 2 weeks, compared to the general movement of other tiers fluctuatingiv) Comparing your status against the various tier trends, or mean/median value of different tiers.What ever Pixonic uses to calculate the rating points that should be given to you... ultimately it boils down this simple phrase."It is very difficult to lose rating points but very easy to gain it back if your performance and hangar surpasses 95% of the others in the same league"and"It is very hard to gain rating points, but very easy to lose rating points regardless of how skillfull you are if your hangar is not up to par against others in the same tier as you"Ultimately over a period of time.. everyone will be placed according in their respective tiers based on other players around it, skill and hangar setup.. and fluctuation will be limited to 3 tiers up or 3 tiers down.Unlike the present environment where Champions capable players can drop to Diamond, or Expert capable players can drop 12 tiers down to Bronze.All the LPQ solutions are nothing but short term band aids to the predicament. Pixonic no longer have any interest in looking at the long term stability of the game. The tanker report form is another one... again ... something that looks like a one-off short term answer to appease the growing frustrations of players seeing other players just changing 4 bots in the first 10 seconds of the game or seeing other players playing in Bronze tier. For all that counts, LPQ is a total failure as well. If it is a success, then there won't be any need for a Tanker report form.Someone mentioned, Mail.Ru will most likely sell of Pixonic in 18 months. I don't have any doubts about it given the way things are handled at the moment.

zer00eyz

Ao Jun



Ⅎ₹ѺC₭₩ELDEℲ₹ is my daddy Posts: 2,073

Karma: 2,256

Pilot name: zer00eyz

Platform: Android

League: Champion

Server Region: North America

Favorite robot: Patton

Ao Jun A flawed Rating Points Distribution. Quote Select Post

Select Post Deselect Post

Deselect Post Link to Post

Link to Post Member Give Gift

Member Back to Top Post by zer00eyz on harryhans3n said:

"It is very difficult to lose rating points but very easy to gain it back if your performance and hangar surpasses 95% of the others in the same league"

and

"It is very hard to gain rating points, but very easy to lose rating points regardless of how skillfull you are if your hangar is not up to par against others in the same tier as you"



Ultimately over a period of time.. everyone will be placed according in their respective tiers based on other players around it, skill and hangar setup.. and fluctuation will be limited to 3 tiers up or 3 tiers down.





"It is very difficult to lose rating points butin the same league"and"It is very hard to gain rating points, but very easy to lose rating points regardless of how skillfull you are if your hangar is not up to par against others in the same tier as you"Ultimately over a period of time.. everyone will be placed according in their respective tiers based on other players around it, skill and hangar setup.. and fluctuation will be limited to 3 tiers up or 3 tiers down.

Lets boil that down to three salient points



* It is very difficult to lose rating points

* very easy to gain it back

* very hard to gain rating points

* very easy to lose rating points





Sounds like something easy to build!





Look at these two points:



very easy to gain if your performance surpasses 95% of the others

It is very hard to gain rating points, but very easy to lose rating points regardless of how skillfull you are if your hangar is not up to par.



The system actually already does this, and quite well.



> and fluctuation will be limited to 3 tiers up or 3 tiers down.



This is a stupid idea.





Can fixed points distributions work? Yes they can, and the one we have is focused on power sorting. Out side of the event, and in spite of the amount of crying that goes on in this forum and on reddit, tanking isn't as bad/frequent as the cryers would have you believe. You don't solve a tanking problem by upending you entire league system, because of the behavior of a small number of players, of outliers. The miss matched games is BY DESIGN, it is that way because pix wants it that way. The long wait times are a function of the size of a player pool, it is also the reason for some of the miss match making (because points need to move through the system). The points mechancs changing won't change any of these factors, it will do nothing good for the game. A dynamic points system would just be one more thing that people would cry about when they could not or are un willing to understand why the match outcomes were what they were.















Lets boil that down to three salient points* It is very difficult to lose rating points* very easy to gain it back* very hard to gain rating points* very easy to lose rating pointsSounds like something easy to build!Look at these two points:> and fluctuation will be limited to 3 tiers up or 3 tiers down.This is a stupid idea.Can fixed points distributions work? Yes they can, and the one we have is focused on power sorting. Out side of the event, and in spite of the amount of crying that goes on in this forum and on reddit, tanking isn't as bad/frequent as the cryers would have you believe. You don't solve a tanking problem by upending you entire league system, because of the behavior of a small number of players, of outliers. The miss matched games is BY DESIGN, it is that way because pix wants it that way. The long wait times are a function of the size of a player pool, it is also the reason for some of the miss match making (because points need to move through the system). The points mechancs changing won't change any of these factors, it will do nothing good for the game. A dynamic points system would just be one more thing that people would cry about when they could not or are un willing to understand why the match outcomes were what they were.

darkknight

Invader



Posts: 1,128

Karma: 470

Platform: iOS

League: Champion

Invader A flawed Rating Points Distribution. Quote Select Post

Select Post Deselect Post

Deselect Post Link to Post

Link to Post Member Give Gift

Member Back to Top Post by darkknight on zer00eyz said: harryhans3n said: very easy to gain it back if your performance and hangar surpasses 95% of the others in the same league"

and

"It is very hard to gain rating points, but very easy to lose rating points regardless of how skillfull you are if your hangar is not up to par against others in the same tier as you"



Ultimately over a period of time.. everyone will be placed according in their respective tiers based on other players around it, skill and hangar setup.. and fluctuation will be limited to 3 tiers up or 3 tiers down.





"It is very difficult to lose rating points butin the same league"and"It is very hard to gain rating points, but very easy to lose rating points regardless of how skillfull you are if your hangar is not up to par against others in the same tier as you"Ultimately over a period of time.. everyone will be placed according in their respective tiers based on other players around it, skill and hangar setup.. and fluctuation will be limited to 3 tiers up or 3 tiers down.



* It is very difficult to lose rating points

* very easy to gain it back

* very hard to gain rating points

* very easy to lose rating points





Sounds like something easy to build!





Look at these two points:



very easy to gain if your performance surpasses 95% of the others

It is very hard to gain rating points, but very easy to lose rating points regardless of how skillfull you are if your hangar is not up to par.



The system actually already does this, and quite well.



> and fluctuation will be limited to 3 tiers up or 3 tiers down.



This is a stupid idea.





Can fixed points distributions work? Yes they can, and the one we have is focused on power sorting. Out side of the event, and in spite of the amount of crying that goes on in this forum and on reddit, tanking isn't as bad/frequent as the cryers would have you believe. You don't solve a tanking problem by upending you entire league system, because of the behavior of a small number of players, of outliers. The miss matched games is BY DESIGN, it is that way because pix wants it that way. The long wait times are a function of the size of a player pool, it is also the reason for some of the miss match making (because points need to move through the system). The points mechancs changing won't change any of these factors, it will do nothing good for the game. A dynamic points system would just be one more thing that people would cry about when they could not or are un willing to understand why the match outcomes were what they were.















Lets boil that down to three salient points* It is very difficult to lose rating points* very easy to gain it back* very hard to gain rating points* very easy to lose rating pointsSounds like something easy to build!Look at these two points:> and fluctuation will be limited to 3 tiers up or 3 tiers down.This is a stupid idea.Can fixed points distributions work? Yes they can, and the one we have is focused on power sorting. Out side of the event, and in spite of the amount of crying that goes on in this forum and on reddit, tanking isn't as bad/frequent as the cryers would have you believe.The miss matched games is BY DESIGN, it is that way because pix wants it that way. The long wait times are a function of the size of a player pool, it is also the reason for some of the miss match making (because points need to move through the system). The points mechancs changing won't change any of these factors, it will do nothing good for the game. A dynamic points system would just be one more thing that people would cry about when they could not or are un willing to understand why the match outcomes were what they were. Unfortunately you are wrong when you say few players . As a fellow tanker I think there are far many tankers in silver-gold leaugues than you are assuming . Maybe there are very few in bronze but when a champ leaugue player drops to diamond it is still called tanking. May take little longer to win a match compared to bronze leaugue . I have climbed as high as master 1 and have dropped as low as silver 3. At each & every match I face atleast one tanker in red or get him as a ally in blue team. Those few players are actually a LOT. If they go to the leaugues they belong then mm would become a lot more better. Also if you or anyone else wanna report me I wouldn’t mind as I already have uninstalled the game today due to endless grind. Pilot Id :-ID13EP Platform - iOS

zer00eyz

Ao Jun



Ⅎ₹ѺC₭₩ELDEℲ₹ is my daddy Posts: 2,073

Karma: 2,256

Pilot name: zer00eyz

Platform: Android

League: Champion

Server Region: North America

Favorite robot: Patton

Ao Jun A flawed Rating Points Distribution. Quote Select Post

Select Post Deselect Post

Deselect Post Link to Post

Link to Post Member Give Gift

Member Back to Top Post by zer00eyz on darkknight said: Unfortunately you are wrong when you say few players . As a fellow tanker I think there are far many tankers in silver-gold leaugues than you are assuming . Maybe there are very few in bronze but when a champ leaugue player drops to diamond it is still called tanking. May take little longer to win a match compared to bronze leaugue . I have climbed as high as master 1 and have dropped as low as silver 3. At each & every match I face atleast one tanker in red or get him as a ally in blue team. Those few players are actually a LOT. If they go to the leaugues they belong then mm would become a lot more better. Also if you or anyone else wanna report me I wouldn’t mind as I already have uninstalled the game today due to endless grind. Pilot Id :-ID13EP Platform - iOS

Silver and gold, outside of events, Tankers in 1 in 12 matches. Thats one in 144 people, less than %1 of the population, the real percentage of active players that are tankers is probably smaller because Im assuming that tankers actually play MORE games grinding up and down the ladder than normal players.



As soon as the event is over, I'll go back to 4 slots of 6-6 silver gear and keep grinding in gold II because I want to have data to solve slots vs bots once and for all - I have been tracking tankers as a matter of course already and the numbers are lower than one thinks.









Silver and gold, outside of events, Tankers in 1 in 12 matches. Thats one in 144 people, less than %1 of the population, the real percentage of active players that are tankers is probably smaller because Im assuming that tankers actually play MORE games grinding up and down the ladder than normal players.As soon as the event is over, I'll go back to 4 slots of 6-6 silver gear and keep grinding in gold II because I want to have data to solve slots vs bots once and for all - I have been tracking tankers as a matter of course already and the numbers are lower than one thinks.

mystic spastic

Falcon



Posts: 878

Karma: 877

Platform: iOS

Clan: War Robots University

League: Champion

Favorite robot: Was the leadhose Griffin, now it's the moneymaker - AKA Avenger AoJun - I love the sound of cannon in the morning...

Falcon A flawed Rating Points Distribution. Quote Select Post

Select Post Deselect Post

Deselect Post Link to Post

Link to Post Member Give Gift

Member Back to Top Post by mystic spastic on zer00eyz said: darkknight said: Unfortunately you are wrong when you say few players . As a fellow tanker I think there are far many tankers in silver-gold leaugues than you are assuming . Maybe there are very few in bronze but when a champ leaugue player drops to diamond it is still called tanking. May take little longer to win a match compared to bronze leaugue . I have climbed as high as master 1 and have dropped as low as silver 3. At each & every match I face atleast one tanker in red or get him as a ally in blue team. Those few players are actually a LOT. If they go to the leaugues they belong then mm would become a lot more better. Also if you or anyone else wanna report me I wouldn’t mind as I already have uninstalled the game today due to endless grind. Pilot Id :-ID13EP Platform - iOS



As soon as the event is over, I'll go back to 4 slots of 6-6 silver gear and keep grinding in gold II because I want to have data to solve slots vs bots once and for all - I have been tracking tankers as a matter of course already and the numbers are lower than one thinks.







Silver and gold, outside of events, Tankers in 1 in 12 matches. Thats one in 144 people, less than %1 of the population, the real percentage of active players that are tankers is probably smaller because Im assuming that tankers actually play MORE games grinding up and down the ladder than normal players.As soon as the event is over, I'll go back to 4 slots of 6-6 silver gear and keep grinding in gold II because I want to have data to solve slots vs bots once and for all - I have been tracking tankers as a matter of course already and the numbers are lower than one thinks. te league, and you have 11 out of 15 weeks (Nov 22- Mar 1) where there is a significant portion of the player base that is negatively affecting play.



I'm not noticing it to the same extent that darknight is stating, but I'd estimate that currently in 50% of the matches, there's either a clubber or someone bailing with 0-10K damage and no other redeeming stats (kills, beacons, capture points...).



You have issues with "where y'at" and his Tempests from Pixonics. But it seems to me that another purpose of a shill would be to gaslight their audience. For instance, stating there's no issue with tanking/clubbing, when at the very least there is problems for the month or so for each of the 3-4 events per year.















So I started a few days before Thanksgiving last year. Since then, IIRC events have been going on for 7 of those weeks, with another week or so to go. Add three days per event for tanking down, and another week per event to club back to a more appropria

1WURDA

Destrier



Posts: 29

Karma: 11

Pilot name: 1WURDA

Platform: Android

Clan: 2525

League: Diamond

Server Region: North America

Destrier A flawed Rating Points Distribution. Quote Select Post

Select Post Deselect Post

Deselect Post Link to Post

Link to Post Member Give Gift

Member Back to Top Post by 1WURDA on Шɑɡɡɪή said: zer00eyz said:



I have been tracking tankers as a matter of course already and the numbers are lower than one thinks.

Yes, this ...... the tanker thing seems a bit overblown. I'm just not seeing it. I don't know, maybe not so prevalent in Expert ?

Yes, this ...... the tanker thing seems a bit overblown. I'm just not seeing it. I don't know, maybe not so prevalent in Expert ?



Also, not really much incentive to tank from Champion down to expert. Sure, it's easier than champ, but why stop there? Tank all the way to bronze and then club seals on the way back up.



So, I imagine you would only see tankers on their way down and their way up, but not actively trying to play in your league. Part of your problem is in expert it wouldn't be entirely surprising to see bots in the meta, whereas the meta should be no where near anything below Diamond. People see the meta all the time in bronze, silver, gold, which should be entirely relegated for newer players.Also, not really much incentive to tank from Champion down to expert. Sure, it's easier than champ, but why stop there? Tank all the way to bronze and then club seals on the way back up.So, I imagine you would only see tankers on their way down and their way up, but not actively trying to play in your league.

Indricotherium

Fenrir



Buddha on an anthill Posts: 1,722

Karma: 2,316

Pilot name: Cdr. Crimmins

Platform: iOS

Clan: Aurora Nova iOS, leader

Fenrir A flawed Rating Points Distribution. Quote Select Post

Select Post Deselect Post

Deselect Post Link to Post

Link to Post Member Give Gift

Member Back to Top Post by Indricotherium on zer00eyz said: darkknight said: Unfortunately you are wrong when you say few players . As a fellow tanker I think there are far many tankers in silver-gold leaugues than you are assuming . Maybe there are very few in bronze but when a champ leaugue player drops to diamond it is still called tanking. May take little longer to win a match compared to bronze leaugue . I have climbed as high as master 1 and have dropped as low as silver 3. At each & every match I face atleast one tanker in red or get him as a ally in blue team. Those few players are actually a LOT. If they go to the leaugues they belong then mm would become a lot more better. Also if you or anyone else wanna report me I wouldn’t mind as I already have uninstalled the game today due to endless grind. Pilot Id :-ID13EP Platform - iOS



As soon as the event is over, I'll go back to 4 slots of 6-6 silver gear and keep grinding in gold II because I want to have data to solve slots vs bots once and for all - I have been tracking tankers as a matter of course already and the numbers are lower than one thinks.









Silver and gold, outside of events, Tankers in 1 in 12 matches. Thats one in 144 people, less than %1 of the population, the real percentage of active players that are tankers is probably smaller because Im assuming that tankers actually play MORE games grinding up and down the ladder than normal players.As soon as the event is over, I'll go back to 4 slots of 6-6 silver gear and keep grinding in gold II because I want to have data to solve slots vs bots once and for all - I have been tracking tankers as a matter of course already and the numbers are lower than one thinks. Since January of 2017 I kept track of my matches, over 2700 in all before I tired of it this past Jan. Tankers affected just over 39% of my matches. Not 1 in 12. Almost four in ten. All through that time I ranged from Gold 2 to Diamond 3 with about 80% of the time in Gold 1. During this event I am reporting 1 to 3 tankers to Pix in about 3 out of 4 games. I do not expect anything to happen as a result of these reports, but I continue.

zer00eyz

Ao Jun



Ⅎ₹ѺC₭₩ELDEℲ₹ is my daddy Posts: 2,073

Karma: 2,256

Pilot name: zer00eyz

Platform: Android

League: Champion

Server Region: North America

Favorite robot: Patton

Ao Jun A flawed Rating Points Distribution. Quote Select Post

Select Post Deselect Post

Deselect Post Link to Post

Link to Post Member Give Gift

Member Back to Top Post by zer00eyz on Indricotherium said: zer00eyz said:



As soon as the event is over, I'll go back to 4 slots of 6-6 silver gear and keep grinding in gold II because I want to have data to solve slots vs bots once and for all - I have been tracking tankers as a matter of course already and the numbers are lower than one thinks.









Silver and gold, outside of events, Tankers in 1 in 12 matches. Thats one in 144 people, less than %1 of the population, the real percentage of active players that are tankers is probably smaller because Im assuming that tankers actually play MORE games grinding up and down the ladder than normal players.As soon as the event is over, I'll go back to 4 slots of 6-6 silver gear and keep grinding in gold II because I want to have data to solve slots vs bots once and for all - I have been tracking tankers as a matter of course already and the numbers are lower than one thinks. Since January of 2017 I kept track of my matches, over 2700 in all before I tired of it this past Jan. Tankers affected just over 39% of my matches. Not 1 in 12. Almost four in ten. All through that time I ranged from Gold 2 to Diamond 3 with about 80% of the time in Gold 1. During this event I am reporting 1 to 3 tankers to Pix in about 3 out of 4 games. I do not expect anything to happen as a result of these reports, but I continue.

How do you count a "tanker"? I can only positively identify them one of two ways: ejecting bots OR clubbing - I have plenty of matches with missing team members who aren't taking action to self identify as "tanking" (ejecting) and I simply can NOT count them. Did their kid call, or did their mom tell them to take out the trash, or were they disconnected by any of the myriad of issues that can happen on the internet (and more due to mobile).



Second is your data inclusive of events and can you seperate out the event time vs non even time? I would be curious to see how that impacts the numbers.



How do you count a "tanker"? I can only positively identify them one of two ways: ejecting bots OR clubbing - I have plenty of matches with missing team members who aren't taking action to self identify as "tanking" (ejecting) and I simply can NOT count them. Did their kid call, or did their mom tell them to take out the trash, or were they disconnected by any of the myriad of issues that can happen on the internet (and more due to mobile).Second is your data inclusive of events and can you seperate out the event time vs non even time? I would be curious to see how that impacts the numbers.

zer00eyz

Ao Jun



Ⅎ₹ѺC₭₩ELDEℲ₹ is my daddy Posts: 2,073

Karma: 2,256

Pilot name: zer00eyz

Platform: Android

League: Champion

Server Region: North America

Favorite robot: Patton

Ao Jun A flawed Rating Points Distribution. Quote Select Post

Select Post Deselect Post

Deselect Post Link to Post

Link to Post Member Give Gift

Member Back to Top Post by zer00eyz on mystic spastic said: zer00eyz said:



As soon as the event is over, I'll go back to 4 slots of 6-6 silver gear and keep grinding in gold II because I want to have data to solve slots vs bots once and for all - I have been tracking tankers as a matter of course already and the numbers are lower than one thinks.







Silver and gold, outside of events, Tankers in 1 in 12 matches. Thats one in 144 people, less than %1 of the population, the real percentage of active players that are tankers is probably smaller because Im assuming that tankers actually play MORE games grinding up and down the ladder than normal players.As soon as the event is over, I'll go back to 4 slots of 6-6 silver gear and keep grinding in gold II because I want to have data to solve slots vs bots once and for all - I have been tracking tankers as a matter of course already and the numbers are lower than one thinks. te league, and you have 11 out of 15 weeks (Nov 22- Mar 1) where there is a significant portion of the player base that is negatively affecting play.



I'm not noticing it to the same extent that darknight is stating, but I'd estimate that currently in 50% of the matches, there's either a clubber or someone bailing with 0-10K damage and no other redeeming stats (kills, beacons, capture points...).



You have issues with "where y'at" and his Tempests from Pixonics. But it seems to me that another purpose of a shill would be to gaslight their audience. For instance, stating there's no issue with tanking/clubbing, when at the very least there is problems for the month or so for each of the 3-4 events per year.



So I started a few days before Thanksgiving last year. Since then, IIRC events have been going on for 7 of those weeks, with another week or so to go. Add three days per event for tanking down, and another week per event to club back to a more appropria



NO



> and another week per event to club back to a more appropriate league,



NO



Not how tanking works at all. Two days tops and you can do it IN the event (and there are benefits to doing it that way as well.



> where there is a significant portion of the player base that is negatively affecting play.



We simply don't know the impact because we don't have any sense of scope on it. - But to that point we could collect the data to figure it out, might make good project.





> You have issues with "where y'at" and his Tempests from Pixonics. But it seems to me that another purpose of a shill would be to gaslight their audience.



That conversation has nothing to do with this -- I'm not blowing sunshine up anyones 「bum-bum」 and I sure as 「dookie」 don't work for pix. Your stretching here at best and at worst trying to be inflammatory.







> Add three days per event for tanking down,NO> and another week per event to club back to a more appropriate league,NONot how tanking works at all. Two days tops and you can do it IN the event (and there are benefits to doing it that way as well.> where there is a significant portion of the player base that is negatively affecting play.We simply don't know the impact because we don't have any sense of scope on it. - But to that point we could collect the data to figure it out, might make good project.> You have issues with "where y'at" and his Tempests from Pixonics. But it seems to me that another purpose of a shill would be to gaslight their audience.That conversation has nothing to do with this -- I'm not blowing sunshine up anyones 「bum-bum」 and I sure as 「dookie」 don't work for pix. Your stretching here at best and at worst trying to be inflammatory.

mystic spastic

Falcon



Posts: 878

Karma: 877

Platform: iOS

Clan: War Robots University

League: Champion

Favorite robot: Was the leadhose Griffin, now it's the moneymaker - AKA Avenger AoJun - I love the sound of cannon in the morning...

Falcon A flawed Rating Points Distribution. Quote Select Post

Select Post Deselect Post

Deselect Post Link to Post

Link to Post Member Give Gift

Member Back to Top Post by mystic spastic on zer00eyz said: mystic spastic said:







NO



> and another week per event to club back to a more appropriate league,



NO



Not how tanking works at all. Two days tops and you can do it IN the event (and there are benefits to doing it that way as well.



> where there is a significant portion of the player base that is negatively affecting play.



We simply don't know the impact because we don't have any sense of scope on it. - But to that point we could collect the data to figure it out, might make good project.





> You have issues with "where y'at" and his Tempests from Pixonics. But it seems to me that another purpose of a shill would be to gaslight their audience.



That conversation has nothing to do with this -- I'm not blowing sunshine up anyones ãbum-bumã and I sure as ãpoo-pooã don't work for pix. Your stretching here at best and at worst trying to be inflammatory.







> Add three days per event for tanking down,NO> and another week per event to club back to a more appropriate league,NONot how tanking works at all. Two days tops and you can do it IN the event (and there are benefits to doing it that way as well.> where there is a significant portion of the player base that is negatively affecting play.We simply don't know the impact because we don't have any sense of scope on it. - But to that point we could collect the data to figure it out, might make good project.> You have issues with "where y'at" and his Tempests from Pixonics. But it seems to me that another purpose of a shill would be to gaslight their audience.That conversation has nothing to do with this -- I'm not blowing sunshine up anyones ãbum-bumã and I sure as ãpoo-pooã don't work for pix. Your stretching here at best and at worst trying to be inflammatory.



(120/2)*16=960 League points lost per day. To go from 5100 to 1100 (barely a Champion to Silver is 4000 points. Or 250 battles on the way down. That's 4+ days. And yes, I saw players with Legend Trophies while in Silver III. Others have reported them in Bronze





How about on the way up. Let's assume that you average about 12 points per battle on the way up. Sometimes you'll actually lose, especially the closer to Champions you get, right? And since you're not tanking, battles will last a lot longer. But you're really over powered at first, so how about an average of 6 minutes including video watching time. Shorter while in Silver, longer while in Masters.



(120/6*)12 = 240 league points per day on the way up. 4000/240 = 16+ days.



So, for approximately 20 days before and after an event, a player that went from Champions to Silver III was clubbing or tanking in order to change leagues. That's close to 600 battles, and doesn't matter if the player is playing 1 or 12 hours a day. And this is just for just moving from a high league standing to a low league standing, and doesn't account for the hundreds of battles during the event.



Of course, you can quibble with my assumptions. But they're certainly not off by orders of magnitude. Especially the number of battles that are involved. Nor with the fact that mathematically, one tanker/clubber is effecting the play of thousands of others during their 4-6 week event odyssey.



You also say that you can only conclusively identify 1% as tankers/clubbers. I think you're filtering out too many real positives. You don't have to go as far as Czebornik* and taste it to know when dog 「dookie」 is dog 「dookie」. Look and smell are good enough. The burden of proof is only "preponderance of evidence" , not "beyond a reasonable doubt".





*https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eY7ZX6ngOSs





I was going to concede that it took less time, but decided to run some arithmetic beyond what I'd done in my head. First, here are some assumptions: how about two hours a day of play time. Figure about 2 minutes per battle, what with watching videos, opening chests, collecting workshop points, tasks, supply drops etc... Average about 16 points lost per battle (25% of the time your team actually wins, and/or you're not the greatest loser)(120/2)*16=960 League points lost per day. To go from 5100 to 1100 (barely a Champion to Silver is 4000 points. Or 250 battles on the way down. That's 4+ days. And yes, I saw players with Legend Trophies while in Silver III. Others have reported them in BronzeHow about on the way up. Let's assume that you average about 12 points per battle on the way up. Sometimes you'll actually lose, especially the closer to Champions you get, right? And since you're not tanking, battles will last a lot longer. But you're really over powered at first, so how about an average of 6 minutes including video watching time. Shorter while in Silver, longer while in Masters.(120/6*)12 = 240 league points per day on the way up. 4000/240 = 16+ days.So, for approximately 20 days before and after an event, a player that went from Champions to Silver III was clubbing or tanking in order to change leagues. That's close to 600 battles, and doesn't matter if the player is playing 1 or 12 hours a day. And this is just for just moving from a high league standing to a low league standing, and doesn't account for the hundreds of battles during the event.Of course, you can quibble with my assumptions. But they're certainly not off by orders of magnitude. Especially the number of battles that are involved. Nor with the fact that mathematically, one tanker/clubber is effecting the play of thousands of others during their 4-6 week event odyssey.You also say that you can only conclusively identify 1% as tankers/clubbers. I think you're filtering out too many real positives. You don't have to go as far as Czebornik* and taste it to know when dog 「dookie」 is dog 「dookie」. Look and smell are good enough. The burden of proof is only "preponderance of evidence" , not "beyond a reasonable doubt".*https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eY7ZX6ngOSs

RedRaider

Ao Jun



You now can call me Sir Red Raider the whale!! Posts: 2,074

Karma: 1,422

Pilot name: RedRaider

Platform: Amazon

Clan: [FeAu] Iron Gold 81018

League: Champion

Server Region: North America

Favorite robot: Hover, Griffin, hover,spectre

Ao Jun A flawed Rating Points Distribution. Quote Select Post

Select Post Deselect Post

Deselect Post Link to Post

Link to Post Member Give Gift

Member Back to Top Post by RedRaider on zer00eyz said: darkknight said: Unfortunately you are wrong when you say few players . As a fellow tanker I think there are far many tankers in silver-gold leaugues than you are assuming . Maybe there are very few in bronze but when a champ leaugue player drops to diamond it is still called tanking. May take little longer to win a match compared to bronze leaugue . I have climbed as high as master 1 and have dropped as low as silver 3. At each & every match I face atleast one tanker in red or get him as a ally in blue team. Those few players are actually a LOT. If they go to the leaugues they belong then mm would become a lot more better. Also if you or anyone else wanna report me I wouldn’t mind as I already have uninstalled the game today due to endless grind. Pilot Id :-ID13EP Platform - iOS



As soon as the event is over, I'll go back to 4 slots of 6-6 silver gear and keep grinding in gold II because I want to have data to solve slots vs bots once and for all - I have been tracking tankers as a matter of course already and the numbers are lower than one thinks.







You haven't played Android then. Every battle had 2 or more lvl30 players with max hangers in silver. I quit Android because of it. I would win and go up 13 points to then loose the next 5 or so matches and drop 20+ I ended up going from silver 2 to silver 3 in a week. And I played every day for at least an hour or more. You have no clue how bad the tanker problem is. If the TRF thins out those eastwards just a little it will be an improvement. Silver and gold, outside of events, Tankers in 1 in 12 matches. Thats one in 144 people, less than %1 of the population, the real percentage of active players that are tankers is probably smaller because Im assuming that tankers actually play MORE games grinding up and down the ladder than normal players.As soon as the event is over, I'll go back to 4 slots of 6-6 silver gear and keep grinding in gold II because I want to have data to solve slots vs bots once and for all - I have been tracking tankers as a matter of course already and the numbers are lower than one thinks.You haven't played Android then. Every battle had 2 or more lvl30 players with max hangers in silver. I quit Android because of it. I would win and go up 13 points to then loose the next 5 or so matches and drop 20+ I ended up going from silver 2 to silver 3 in a week. And I played every day for at least an hour or more. You have no clue how bad the tanker problem is. If the TRF thins out those eastwards just a little it will be an improvement.



Danny Linguini

Trusted Contributor



The Mad Italian

Posts: 3,647

Karma: 5,419

Platform: iOS

Server Region: North America

MA Division: 1

MA Pilot ID: 3951970

Trusted Contributor A flawed Rating Points Distribution. Quote Select Post

Select Post Deselect Post

Deselect Post Link to Post

Link to Post Member Give Gift

Member Back to Top Post by Danny Linguini on Payxonic said:



The losing team should be getting negative points (small negative points for top 3) and stop at lets say a league lower than their highest league and then zero points after that.









The flaw is the + points for the losing team. The system should not keep force pushing losers upwards or else they will tank.The losing team should be getting negative points (small negative points for top 3) and stop at lets say a league lower than their highest league and then zero points after that. shouod serve as incentive to put forth some kind of effort. You already get nothing for capping most beacons on the losing team. It's one thing I think they got as close to right as possible, considering all the different circumstances under which you can win or lose. Of all the things that are screwed up in this game, this is one part of it I don't have a problem with. It at least makes an effort to reward players for strong individual efforts even if their team loses, and the big neg for coming in lastserve as incentive to put forth some kind of effort. You already get nothing for capping most beacons on the losing team. It's one thing I think they got as close to right as possible, considering all the different circumstances under which you can win or lose.

zer00eyz

Ao Jun



Ⅎ₹ѺC₭₩ELDEℲ₹ is my daddy Posts: 2,073

Karma: 2,256

Pilot name: zer00eyz

Platform: Android

League: Champion

Server Region: North America

Favorite robot: Patton

Ao Jun A flawed Rating Points Distribution. Quote Select Post

Select Post Deselect Post

Deselect Post Link to Post

Link to Post Member Give Gift

Member Back to Top Post by zer00eyz on mystic spastic said: zer00eyz said:



NO



> and another week per event to club back to a more appropriate league,



NO



Not how tanking works at all. Two days tops and you can do it IN the event (and there are benefits to doing it that way as well.



> where there is a significant portion of the player base that is negatively affecting play.



We simply don't know the impact because we don't have any sense of scope on it. - But to that point we could collect the data to figure it out, might make good project.





> You have issues with "where y'at" and his Tempests from Pixonics. But it seems to me that another purpose of a shill would be to gaslight their audience.



That conversation has nothing to do with this -- I'm not blowing sunshine up anyones ãbum-bumã and I sure as ãpoo-pooã don't work for pix. Your stretching here at best and at worst trying to be inflammatory.







> Add three days per event for tanking down,NO> and another week per event to club back to a more appropriate league,NONot how tanking works at all. Two days tops and you can do it IN the event (and there are benefits to doing it that way as well.> where there is a significant portion of the player base that is negatively affecting play.We simply don't know the impact because we don't have any sense of scope on it. - But to that point we could collect the data to figure it out, might make good project.> You have issues with "where y'at" and his Tempests from Pixonics. But it seems to me that another purpose of a shill would be to gaslight their audience.That conversation has nothing to do with this -- I'm not blowing sunshine up anyones ãbum-bumã and I sure as ãpoo-pooã don't work for pix. Your stretching here at best and at worst trying to be inflammatory.



(120/2)*16=960 League points lost per day. To go from 5100 to 1100 (barely a Champion to Silver is 4000 points. Or 250 battles on the way down. That's 4+ days. And yes, I saw players with Legend Trophies while in Silver III. Others have reported them in Bronze





How about on the way up. Let's assume that you average about 12 points per battle on the way up. Sometimes you'll actually lose, especially the closer to Champions you get, right? And since you're not tanking, battles will last a lot longer. But you're really over powered at first, so how about an average of 6 minutes including video watching time. Shorter while in Silver, longer while in Masters.



(120/6*)12 = 240 league points per day on the way up. 4000/240 = 16+ days.



So, for approximately 20 days before and after an event, a player that went from Champions to Silver III was clubbing or tanking in order to change leagues. That's close to 600 battles, and doesn't matter if the player is playing 1 or 12 hours a day. And this is just for just moving from a high league standing to a low league standing, and doesn't account for the hundreds of battles during the event.



Of course, you can quibble with my assumptions. But they're certainly not off by orders of magnitude. Especially the number of battles that are involved. Nor with the fact that mathematically, one tanker/clubber is effecting the play of thousands of others during their 4-6 week event odyssey.



You also say that you can only conclusively identify 1% as tankers/clubbers. I think you're filtering out too many real positives. You don't have to go as far as Czebornik* and taste it to know when dog 「poo-poo」 is dog 「poo-poo」. Look and smell are good enough. The burden of proof is only "preponderance of evidence" , not "beyond a reasonable doubt".





I was going to concede that it took less time, but decided to run some arithmetic beyond what I'd done in my head. First, here are some assumptions: how about two hours a day of play time. Figure about 2 minutes per battle, what with watching videos, opening chests, collecting workshop points, tasks, supply drops etc... Average about 16 points lost per battle (25% of the time your team actually wins, and/or you're not the greatest loser)(120/2)*16=960 League points lost per day. To go from 5100 to 1100 (barely a Champion to Silver is 4000 points. Or 250 battles on the way down. That's 4+ days. And yes, I saw players with Legend Trophies while in Silver III. Others have reported them in BronzeHow about on the way up. Let's assume that you average about 12 points per battle on the way up. Sometimes you'll actually lose, especially the closer to Champions you get, right? And since you're not tanking, battles will last a lot longer. But you're really over powered at first, so how about an average of 6 minutes including video watching time. Shorter while in Silver, longer while in Masters.(120/6*)12 = 240 league points per day on the way up. 4000/240 = 16+ days.So, for approximately 20 days before and after an event, a player that went from Champions to Silver III was clubbing or tanking in order to change leagues. That's close to 600 battles, and doesn't matter if the player is playing 1 or 12 hours a day. And this is just for just moving from a high league standing to a low league standing, and doesn't account for the hundreds of battles during the event.Of course, you can quibble with my assumptions. But they're certainly not off by orders of magnitude. Especially the number of battles that are involved. Nor with the fact that mathematically, one tanker/clubber is effecting the play of thousands of others during their 4-6 week event odyssey.You also say that you can only conclusively identify 1% as tankers/clubbers. I think you're filtering out too many real positives. You don't have to go as far as Czebornik* and taste it to know when dog 「poo-poo」 is dog 「poo-poo」. Look and smell are good enough. The burden of proof is only "preponderance of evidence" , not "beyond a reasonable doubt".

> Figure about 2 minutes per battle, what with watching videos, opening chests, collecting workshop points



I won't argue with these numbers.





> how about two hours a day of play time.



Nope, not even close to the mark. Your assumption here is way off base - think 12 or 24



Your also making assumptions about "how far" someone has to go and what they want or intend to do when they get there. Your mistake is thinking that these players are climbing when they are done (some are) but those are far fewer than the ones who stay behind.





> So, for approximately 20 days before and after an event, a player that went from Champions to Silver III was clubbing or tanking in order to change leagues.



They went down months ago, they never left - they STAY there mostly - why would you leave? And if you have a champ hanger expert would see you top dog - silver is just over kill never mind bronze.



Your view on tanking, how people tank, and what they do would be "current" if this was a year ago - the landscape has changed dramatically. > Figure about 2 minutes per battle, what with watching videos, opening chests, collecting workshop pointsI won't argue with these numbers.> how about two hours a day of play time.Nope, not even close to the mark. Your assumption here is way off base - think 12 or 24Your also making assumptions about "how far" someone has to go and what they want or intend to do when they get there. Your mistake is thinking that these players are climbing when they are done (some are) but those are far fewer than the ones who stay behind.> So, for approximately 20 days before and after an event, a player that went from Champions to Silver III was clubbing or tanking in order to change leagues.They went down months ago, they never left - they STAY there mostly - why would you leave? And if you have a champ hanger expert would see you top dog - silver is just over kill never mind bronze.Your view on tanking, how people tank, and what they do would be "current" if this was a year ago - the landscape has changed dramatically.

zer00eyz

Ao Jun



Ⅎ₹ѺC₭₩ELDEℲ₹ is my daddy Posts: 2,073

Karma: 2,256

Pilot name: zer00eyz

Platform: Android

League: Champion

Server Region: North America

Favorite robot: Patton

Ao Jun A flawed Rating Points Distribution. Quote Select Post

Select Post Deselect Post

Deselect Post Link to Post

Link to Post Member Give Gift

Member Back to Top Post by zer00eyz on RedRaider said: zer00eyz said: You haven't played Android then. Every battle had 2 or more lvl30 players with max hangers in silver. I quit Android because of it. I would win and go up 13 points to then loose the next 5 or so matches and drop 20+ I ended up going from silver 2 to silver 3 in a week. And I played every day for at least an hour or more. You have no clue how bad the tanker problem is. If the TRF thins out those eastwards just a little it will be an improvement.

I do play on android. I was recently there with 4 slots of 6-6 all silver gear and quickly climbed out. I'll go back down there post event and see if I was "lucky" or if my data holds.

I do play on android. I was recently there with 4 slots of 6-6 all silver gear and quickly climbed out. I'll go back down there post event and see if I was "lucky" or if my data holds.

zer00eyz

Ao Jun



Ⅎ₹ѺC₭₩ELDEℲ₹ is my daddy Posts: 2,073

Karma: 2,256

Pilot name: zer00eyz

Platform: Android

League: Champion

Server Region: North America

Favorite robot: Patton

Ao Jun A flawed Rating Points Distribution. Quote Select Post

Select Post Deselect Post

Deselect Post Link to Post

Link to Post Member Give Gift

Member Back to Top Post by zer00eyz on Payxonic said:



The losing team should be getting negative points (small negative points for top 3) and stop at lets say a league lower than their highest league and then zero points after that.









The flaw is the + points for the losing team. The system should not keep force pushing losers upwards or else they will tank.The losing team should be getting negative points (small negative points for top 3) and stop at lets say a league lower than their highest league and then zero points after that.



We had "losers always loose points" and it simply does NOT work - the system is designed to power sort, and will bottle neck if you don't do it the way it has been done.



We had "losers always loose points" and it simply does NOT work - the system is designed to power sort, and will bottle neck if you don't do it the way it has been done.

White1Golf

Hades



Posts: 739

Karma: 451

Pilot name: White1Golf

Platform: Android

Clan: Apocalypse

League: Champion

Server Region: North America

Favorite robot: Brawler

Hades A flawed Rating Points Distribution. via mobile Quote Select Post

Select Post Deselect Post

Deselect Post Link to Post

Link to Post Member Give Gift

Member Back to Top Post by White1Golf on zer00eyz said: mystic spastic said: te league, and you have 11 out of 15 weeks (Nov 22- Mar 1) where there is a significant portion of the player base that is negatively affecting play.



I'm not noticing it to the same extent that darknight is stating, but I'd estimate that currently in 50% of the matches, there's either a clubber or someone bailing with 0-10K damage and no other redeeming stats (kills, beacons, capture points...).



You have issues with "where y'at" and his Tempests from Pixonics. But it seems to me that another purpose of a shill would be to gaslight their audience. For instance, stating there's no issue with tanking/clubbing, when at the very least there is problems for the month or so for each of the 3-4 events per year.



So I started a few days before Thanksgiving last year. Since then, IIRC events have been going on for 7 of those weeks, with another week or so to go. Add three days per event for tanking down, and another week per event to club back to a more appropria



NO



> and another week per event to club back to a more appropriate league,



NO



Not how tanking works at all. Two days tops and you can do it IN the event (and there are benefits to doing it that way as well.



> where there is a significant portion of the player base that is negatively affecting play.



We simply don't know the impact because we don't have any sense of scope on it. - But to that point we could collect the data to figure it out, might make good project.





> You have issues with "where y'at" and his Tempests from Pixonics. But it seems to me that another purpose of a shill would be to gaslight their audience.



That conversation has nothing to do with this -- I'm not blowing sunshine up anyones 「bum-bum」 and I sure as 「poo-poo」 don't work for pix. Your stretching here at best and at worst trying to be inflammatory.







> Add three days per event for tanking down,NO> and another week per event to club back to a more appropriate league,NONot how tanking works at all. Two days tops and you can do it IN the event (and there are benefits to doing it that way as well.> where there is a significant portion of the player base that is negatively affecting play.We simply don't know the impact because we don't have any sense of scope on it. - But to that point we could collect the data to figure it out, might make good project.> You have issues with "where y'at" and his Tempests from Pixonics. But it seems to me that another purpose of a shill would be to gaslight their audience.That conversation has nothing to do with this -- I'm not blowing sunshine up anyones 「bum-bum」 and I sure as 「poo-poo」 don't work for pix. Your stretching here at best and at worst trying to be inflammatory.

2 days? Try 4 hrs to get bronze from expert 2. So maybe 6-7 hrs from champ to bronze. That's a Saturday, and if you're hardcore you can club your way up to mid gold before dropping back to bronze again, in one day. I can make a how to vid with time stamps if you like. 2 days? Try 4 hrs to get bronze from expert 2. So maybe 6-7 hrs from champ to bronze. That's a Saturday, and if you're hardcore you can club your way up to mid gold before dropping back to bronze again, in one day. I can make a how to vid with time stamps if you like.

mystic spastic

Falcon



Posts: 878

Karma: 877

Platform: iOS

Clan: War Robots University

League: Champion

Favorite robot: Was the leadhose Griffin, now it's the moneymaker - AKA Avenger AoJun - I love the sound of cannon in the morning...

Falcon A flawed Rating Points Distribution. Quote Select Post

Select Post Deselect Post

Deselect Post Link to Post

Link to Post Member Give Gift

Member Back to Top Post by mystic spastic on zer00eyz said: mystic spastic said:



(120/2)*16=960 League points lost per day. To go from 5100 to 1100 (barely a Champion to Silver is 4000 points. Or 250 battles on the way down. That's 4+ days. And yes, I saw players with Legend Trophies while in Silver III. Others have reported them in Bronze





How about on the way up. Let's assume that you average about 12 points per battle on the way up. Sometimes you'll actually lose, especially the closer to Champions you get, right? And since you're not tanking, battles will last a lot longer. But you're really over powered at first, so how about an average of 6 minutes including video watching time. Shorter while in Silver, longer while in Masters.



(120/6*)12 = 240 league points per day on the way up. 4000/240 = 16+ days.



So, for approximately 20 days before and after an event, a player that went from Champions to Silver III was clubbing or tanking in order to change leagues. That's close to 600 battles, and doesn't matter if the player is playing 1 or 12 hours a day. And this is just for just moving from a high league standing to a low league standing, and doesn't account for the hundreds of battles during the event.



Of course, you can quibble with my assumptions. But they're certainly not off by orders of magnitude. Especially the number of battles that are involved. Nor with the fact that mathematically, one tanker/clubber is effecting the play of thousands of others during their 4-6 week event odyssey.



You also say that you can only conclusively identify 1% as tankers/clubbers. I think you're filtering out too many real positives. You don't have to go as far as Czebornik* and taste it to know when dog 「poo-poo」 is dog 「poo-poo」. Look and smell are good enough. The burden of proof is only "preponderance of evidence" , not "beyond a reasonable doubt".





I was going to concede that it took less time, but decided to run some arithmetic beyond what I'd done in my head. First, here are some assumptions: how about two hours a day of play time. Figure about 2 minutes per battle, what with watching videos, opening chests, collecting workshop points, tasks, supply drops etc... Average about 16 points lost per battle (25% of the time your team actually wins, and/or you're not the greatest loser)(120/2)*16=960 League points lost per day. To go from 5100 to 1100 (barely a Champion to Silver is 4000 points. Or 250 battles on the way down. That's 4+ days. And yes, I saw players with Legend Trophies while in Silver III. Others have reported them in BronzeHow about on the way up. Let's assume that you average about 12 points per battle on the way up. Sometimes you'll actually lose, especially the closer to Champions you get, right? And since you're not tanking, battles will last a lot longer. But you're really over powered at first, so how about an average of 6 minutes including video watching time. Shorter while in Silver, longer while in Masters.(120/6*)12 = 240 league points per day on the way up. 4000/240 = 16+ days.So, for approximately 20 days before and after an event, a player that went from Champions to Silver III was clubbing or tanking in order to change leagues. That's close to 600 battles, and doesn't matter if the player is playing 1 or 12 hours a day. And this is just for just moving from a high league standing to a low league standing, and doesn't account for the hundreds of battles during the event.Of course, you can quibble with my assumptions. But they're certainly not off by orders of magnitude. Especially the number of battles that are involved. Nor with the fact that mathematically, one tanker/clubber is effecting the play of thousands of others during their 4-6 week event odyssey.You also say that you can only conclusively identify 1% as tankers/clubbers. I think you're filtering out too many real positives. You don't have to go as far as Czebornik* and taste it to know when dog 「poo-poo」 is dog 「poo-poo」. Look and smell are good enough. The burden of proof is only "preponderance of evidence" , not "beyond a reasonable doubt".



I won't argue with these numbers.





> how about two hours a day of play time.



Nope, not even close to the mark. Your assumption here is way off base - think 12 or 24



Your also making assumptions about "how far" someone has to go and what they want or intend to do when they get there. Your mistake is thinking that these players are climbing when they are done (some are) but those are far fewer than the ones who stay behind.





> So, for approximately 20 days before and after an event, a player that went from Champions to Silver III was clubbing or tanking in order to change leagues.



They went down months ago, they never left - they STAY there mostly - why would you leave? And if you have a champ hanger expert would see you top dog - silver is just over kill never mind bronze.



Your view on tanking, how people tank, and what they do would be "current" if this was a year ago - the landscape has changed dramatically. > Figure about 2 minutes per battle, what with watching videos, opening chests, collecting workshop pointsI won't argue with these numbers.> how about two hours a day of play time.Nope, not even close to the mark. Your assumption here is way off base - think 12 or 24Your also making assumptions about "how far" someone has to go and what they want or intend to do when they get there. Your mistake is thinking that these players are climbing when they are done (some are) but those are far fewer than the ones who stay behind.> So, for approximately 20 days before and after an event, a player that went from Champions to Silver III was clubbing or tanking in order to change leagues.They went down months ago, they never left - they STAY there mostly - why would you leave? And if you have a champ hanger expert would see you top dog - silver is just over kill never mind bronze.Your view on tanking, how people tank, and what they do would be "current" if this was a year ago - the landscape has changed dramatically.



But I have seen a red with 10,000 Legend trophies while I was in (IIRC) Silver I.



I to this day see players with 5K plus victories in Gold, sporting two hangers with Mk1 or Mk2 level 12 bots and weapons. I see this several times during my 2 hours a day that I play.



Within the past week I have seen squadded players in Gold III self destructing their hangers and out with zero damage. Their gear is Expert-Champ level, and they have 3000-6000 victories.



Tankers/clubbers are more prevalent than the <1% figure you're claiming, and they're diving a LOT deeper than Expert.























I swear to you the landscape as I describe it, is as it is (and not so figuratively) this very moment. I just started playing 10 or so weeks ago. I have no idea what the tankers/clubbers were doing a year ago.But I have seen a red with 10,000 Legend trophies while I was in (IIRC) Silver I.I to this day see players with 5K plus victories in Gold, sporting two hangers with Mk1 or Mk2 level 12 bots and weapons. I see this several times during my 2 hours a day that I play.Within the past week I have seen squadded players in Gold III self destructing their hangers and out with zero damage. Their gear is Expert-Champ level, and they have 3000-6000 victories.Tankers/clubbers are more prevalent than the <1% figure you're claiming, and they're diving a LOT deeper than Expert.

leavemealone

Invader



Posts: 1,181

Karma: 441

Invader A flawed Rating Points Distribution. via mobile Quote Select Post

Select Post Deselect Post

Deselect Post Link to Post

Link to Post Member Give Gift

Member Back to Top Post by leavemealone on I like to also add climbing up the ladder even if your constant losing as long you are doing damages you still gain points not by very long shot compared to winning. This show how frail the system work in this game. It's evident Pix's doesn't care for a solution to fix the problem so I'm not going to cry over a horse that been beaten by trillion of times already. You play as is or If you don't like it quit the game and uninstall it and find a real skilled based game.

mystic spastic

Falcon



Posts: 878

Karma: 877

Platform: iOS

Clan: War Robots University

League: Champion

Favorite robot: Was the leadhose Griffin, now it's the moneymaker - AKA Avenger AoJun - I love the sound of cannon in the morning...

Falcon A flawed Rating Points Distribution. Quote Select Post

Select Post Deselect Post

Deselect Post Link to Post

Link to Post Member Give Gift

Member Back to Top Post by mystic spastic on White1Golf said: zer00eyz said:



NO



> and another week per event to club back to a more appropriate league,



NO



Not how tanking works at all. Two days tops and you can do it IN the event (and there are benefits to doing it that way as well.



> where there is a significant portion of the player base that is negatively affecting play.



We simply don't know the impact because we don't have any sense of scope on it. - But to that point we could collect the data to figure it out, might make good project.





> You have issues with "where y'at" and his Tempests from Pixonics. But it seems to me that another purpose of a shill would be to gaslight their audience.



That conversation has nothing to do with this -- I'm not blowing sunshine up anyones 「bum-bum」 and I sure as 「poo-poo」 don't work for pix. Your stretching here at best and at worst trying to be inflammatory.







> Add three days per event for tanking down,NO> and another week per event to club back to a more appropriate league,NONot how tanking works at all. Two days tops and you can do it IN the event (and there are benefits to doing it that way as well.> where there is a significant portion of the player base that is negatively affecting play.We simply don't know the impact because we don't have any sense of scope on it. - But to that point we could collect the data to figure it out, might make good project.> You have issues with "where y'at" and his Tempests from Pixonics. But it seems to me that another purpose of a shill would be to gaslight their audience.That conversation has nothing to do with this -- I'm not blowing sunshine up anyones 「bum-bum」 and I sure as 「poo-poo」 don't work for pix. Your stretching here at best and at worst trying to be inflammatory. 2 days? Try 4 hrs to get bronze from expert 2. So maybe 6-7 hrs from champ to bronze. That's a Saturday, and if you're hardcore you can club your way up to mid gold before dropping back to bronze again, in one day. I can make a how to vid with time stamps if you like.



(3600-1008)/16 = 162 battles.



240 minutes/162 minutes/battle =~1.5 minutes per battle. If you are watching ads then my hours needed is off by 25%. If you aren't, then they're almost perfectly aligned



Going from 1000 up to 1900 then down to 1000 league points in a day also fits in with my assumptions on points earned/lost and time needed per battle. But you're not playing 2 hours a day, it's more like 8 hours a day.



You do realize that by playing more per day makes the point that there are even MORE battles screwed up by the tankers/clubbers every day?









How many ads are you watching when you tank down? Because if you aren't, then your numbers and my assumption align very closely.(3600-1008)/16 = 162 battles.240 minutes/162 minutes/battle =~1.5 minutes per battle. If you are watching ads then my hours needed is off by 25%. If you aren't, then they're almost perfectly alignedGoing from 1000 up to 1900 then down to 1000 league points in a day also fits in with my assumptions on points earned/lost and time needed per battle. But you're not playing 2 hours a day, it's more like 8 hours a day.You do realize that by playing more per day makes the point that there are even MORE battles screwed up by the tankers/clubbers every day?

White1Golf

Hades



Posts: 739

Karma: 451

Pilot name: White1Golf

Platform: Android

Clan: Apocalypse

League: Champion

Server Region: North America

Favorite robot: Brawler

Hades A flawed Rating Points Distribution. via mobile Quote Select Post

Select Post Deselect Post

Deselect Post Link to Post

Link to Post Member Give Gift

Member Back to Top Post by White1Golf on mystic spastic said: White1Golf said: 2 days? Try 4 hrs to get bronze from expert 2. So maybe 6-7 hrs from champ to bronze. That's a Saturday, and if you're hardcore you can club your way up to mid gold before dropping back to bronze again, in one day. I can make a how to vid with time stamps if you like.



(3600-1008)/16 = 162 battles.



240 minutes/162 minutes/battle =~1.5 minutes per battle. If you are watching ads then my hours needed is off by 25%. If you aren't, then they're almost perfectly aligned



Going from 1000 up to 1900 then down to 1000 league points in a day also fits in with my assumptions on points earned/lost and time needed per battle. But you're not playing 2 hours a day, it's more like 8 hours a day.



You do realize that by playing more per day makes the point that there are even MORE battles screwed up by the tankers/clubbers every day?









How many ads are you watching when you tank down? Because if you aren't, then your numbers and my assumption align very closely.(3600-1008)/16 = 162 battles.240 minutes/162 minutes/battle =~1.5 minutes per battle. If you are watching ads then my hours needed is off by 25%. If you aren't, then they're almost perfectly alignedGoing from 1000 up to 1900 then down to 1000 league points in a day also fits in with my assumptions on points earned/lost and time needed per battle. But you're not playing 2 hours a day, it's more like 8 hours a day.You do realize that by playing more per day makes the point that there are even MORE battles screwed up by the tankers/clubbers every day?

No ads, and yes I do realize that at least 75% of games during the event are affected by farmers. Probably more now that we have random mode. It's a very purposefully flawed system. As for time played, 10-16 hr. sessions of farming because I've already spent all the money I'm going to on this game and I've nothing better to do. About 1 1/2 min per game on the way down and 5 min on the way up. Always leave games that have better equipped farmers on the opposing team. No ads, and yes I do realize that at least 75% of games during the event are affected by farmers. Probably more now that we have random mode. It's a very purposefully flawed system. As for time played, 10-16 hr. sessions of farming because I've already spent all the money I'm going to on this game and I've nothing better to do. About 1 1/2 min per game on the way down and 5 min on the way up. Always leave games that have better equipped farmers on the opposing team.

leavemealone

Invader



Posts: 1,181

Karma: 441

Invader A flawed Rating Points Distribution. via mobile Quote Select Post

Select Post Deselect Post

Deselect Post Link to Post

Link to Post Member Give Gift

Member Back to Top Post by leavemealone on zer00eyz said: harryhans3n said: very easy to gain it back if your performance and hangar surpasses 95% of the others in the same league"

and

"It is very hard to gain rating points, but very easy to lose rating points regardless of how skillfull you are if your hangar is not up to par against others in the same tier as you"



Ultimately over a period of time.. everyone will be placed according in their respective tiers based on other players around it, skill and hangar setup.. and fluctuation will be limited to 3 tiers up or 3 tiers down.





"It is very difficult to lose rating points butin the same league"and"It is very hard to gain rating points, but very easy to lose rating points regardless of how skillfull you are if your hangar is not up to par against others in the same tier as you"Ultimately over a period of time.. everyone will be placed according in their respective tiers based on other players around it, skill and hangar setup.. and fluctuation will be limited to 3 tiers up or 3 tiers down.



* It is very difficult to lose rating points

* very easy to gain it back

* very hard to gain rating points

* very easy to lose rating points





Sounds like something easy to build!





Look at these two points:



very easy to gain if your performance surpasses 95% of the others

It is very hard to gain rating points, but very easy to lose rating points regardless of how skillfull you are if your hangar is not up to par.



The system actually already does this, and quite well.



> and fluctuation will be limited to 3 tiers up or 3 tiers down.



This is a stupid idea.





Can fixed points distributions work? Yes they can, and the one we have is focused on power sorting. Out side of the event, and in spite of the amount of crying that goes on in this forum and on reddit, tanking isn't as bad/frequent as the cryers would have you believe. You don't solve a tanking problem by upending you entire league system, because of the behavior of a small number of players, of outliers. The miss matched games is BY DESIGN, it is that way because pix wants it that way. The long wait times are a function of the size of a player pool, it is also the reason for some of the miss match making (because points need to move through the system). The points mechancs changing won't change any of these factors, it will do nothing good for the game. A dynamic points system would just be one more thing that people would cry about when they could not or are un willing to understand why the match outcomes were what they were.















Lets boil that down to three salient points* It is very difficult to lose rating points* very easy to gain it back* very hard to gain rating points* very easy to lose rating pointsSounds like something easy to build!Look at these two points:> and fluctuation will be limited to 3 tiers up or 3 tiers down.This is a stupid idea.Can fixed points distributions work? Yes they can, and the one we have is focused on power sorting. Out side of the event, and in spite of the amount of crying that goes on in this forum and on reddit, tanking isn't as bad/frequent as the cryers would have you believe. You don't solve a tanking problem by upending you entire league system, because of the behavior of a small number of players, of outliers. The miss matched games is BY DESIGN, it is that way because pix wants it that way. The long wait times are a function of the size of a player pool, it is also the reason for some of the miss match making (because points need to move through the system). The points mechancs changing won't change any of these factors, it will do nothing good for the game. A dynamic points system would just be one more thing that people would cry about when they could not or are un willing to understand why the match outcomes were what they were.

the flawed to the win points is much lesser to losing, so anyone can climb up and down the ladder if they chose to. In star craft work like the same both players are equal the same at one and point to continue to move up the ladder you have to be one step better than your opponent every game until you hit champion . In War Robots they should use that same system but applied to the hangar instead of the actual players. So for instance if a player has a hangar that is randomly mix leveled the system should be able to calculate the ratio and match someone within that tier. We know that pix pissed poor excuse attempt to lie that pool of players isn't enough. the flawed to the win points is much lesser to losing, so anyone can climb up and down the ladder if they chose to. In star craft work like the same both players are equal the same at one and point to continue to move up the ladder you have to be one step better than your opponent every game until you hit champion . In War Robots they should use that same system but applied to the hangar instead of the actual players. So for instance if a player has a hangar that is randomly mix leveled the system should be able to calculate the ratio and match someone within that tier. We know that pix pissed poor excuse attempt to lie that pool of players isn't enough.

Indricotherium

Fenrir



Buddha on an anthill Posts: 1,722

Karma: 2,316

Pilot name: Cdr. Crimmins

Platform: iOS

Clan: Aurora Nova iOS, leader

Fenrir A flawed Rating Points Distribution. Quote Select Post

Select Post Deselect Post

Deselect Post Link to Post

Link to Post Member Give Gift

Member Back to Top Post by Indricotherium on zer00eyz said: Indricotherium said: Since January of 2017 I kept track of my matches, over 2700 in all before I tired of it this past Jan. Tankers affected just over 39% of my matches. Not 1 in 12. Almost four in ten. All through that time I ranged from Gold 2 to Diamond 3 with about 80% of the time in Gold 1. During this event I am reporting 1 to 3 tankers to Pix in about 3 out of 4 games. I do not expect anything to happen as a result of these reports, but I continue.



Second is your data inclusive of events and can you seperate out the event time vs non even time? I would be curious to see how that impacts the numbers.



How do you count a "tanker"? I can only positively identify them one of two ways: ejecting bots OR clubbing - I have plenty of matches with missing team members who aren't taking action to self identify as "tanking" (ejecting) and I simply can NOT count them. Did their kid call, or did their mom tell them to take out the trash, or were they disconnected by any of the myriad of issues that can happen on the internet (and more due to mobile).Second is your data inclusive of events and can you seperate out the event time vs non even time? I would be curious to see how that impacts the numbers.





and afterwards, let's take a look:



Hmmm... the results?



Oh, but look at that poor man whose kid told his Mom to tell him to take out the trash while he's trying to play War Robots dialed into AOL on his kickass 9600 baud modem!



I don't buy it. I've gotten around 5 disconnects maybe in close to 3000 matches. Let's say 10. According to the data I have, the rest of the world has 「dookie」ty 「dookie」 「dookie」 internet. Real poop crap.



I'm not reporting people who beat me in glorious combat, I'm reporting tankers. I see the same clans, the same names even, over and over. I've been playing a fairly long time. I can tell when my weapons are scratching paint while my bot's health just sloughs away. I can see the Red's collapse while a False God walks the battlefield dispensing Armageddon. It's pathetic and while I expect nothing from Pix I will continue to lay these reports at their feet. It's up to them. Because human nature isn't about to change anytime soon. I don't disagree with you that the tools we have available to us to determine tanking are few and imperfect. However, that being said this isn't a court of law and after nearly 5000 new MM matches I have a pretty good idea of what I'm seeing. I've played one game so far today. Fresh start! And this is what I see when we get Dom on Dreadnought in Gold1 on iOS.and afterwards, let's take a look:Hmmm... the results?Oh, but look at that poor man whose kid told his Mom to tell him to take out the trash while he's trying to play War Robots dialed into AOL on his kickass 9600 baud modem!I don't buy it. I've gotten around 5 disconnects maybe in close to 3000 matches. Let's say 10. According to the data I have, the rest of the world has 「dookie」ty 「dookie」 「dookie」 internet. Real poop crap.I'm not reporting people who beat me in glorious combat, I'm reporting tankers. I see the same clans, the same names even, over and over. I've been playing a fairly long time. I can tell when my weapons are scratching paint while my bot's health just sloughs away. I can see the Red's collapse while a False God walks the battlefield dispensing Armageddon. It's pathetic and while I expect nothing from Pix I will continue to lay these reports at their feet. It's up to them. Because human nature isn't about to change anytime soon.

darkknight

Invader



Posts: 1,128

Karma: 470

Platform: iOS

League: Champion

Invader A flawed Rating Points Distribution. Quote Select Post

Select Post Deselect Post

Deselect Post Link to Post

Link to Post Member Give Gift

Member Back to Top Post by darkknight on zer00eyz said: darkknight said: Unfortunately you are wrong when you say few players . As a fellow tanker I think there are far many tankers in silver-gold leaugues than you are assuming . Maybe there are very few in bronze but when a champ leaugue player drops to diamond it is still called tanking. May take little longer to win a match compared to bronze leaugue . I have climbed as high as master 1 and have dropped as low as silver 3. At each & every match I face atleast one tanker in red or get him as a ally in blue team. Those few players are actually a LOT. If they go to the leaugues they belong then mm would become a lot more better. Also if you or anyone else wanna report me I wouldn’t mind as I already have uninstalled the game today due to endless grind. Pilot Id :-ID13EP Platform - iOS



As soon as the event is over, I'll go back to 4 slots of 6-6 silver gear and keep grinding in gold II because I want to have data to solve slots vs bots once and for all - I have been tracking tankers as a matter of course already and the numbers are lower than one thinks.









Silver and gold, outside of events, Tankers in 1 in 12 matches. Thats one in 144 people, less than %1 of the population, the real percentage of active players that are tankers is probably smaller because Im assuming that tankers actually play MORE games grinding up and down the ladder than normal players.As soon as the event is over, I'll go back to 4 slots of 6-6 silver gear and keep grinding in gold II because I want to have data to solve slots vs bots once and for all - I have been tracking tankers as a matter of course already and the numbers are lower than one thinks.

I wasn’t farming gold/silver as I have like 950 mil silver and don’t care much about speeding up upgrades with gold. I was farming adds for superchest progress bar. So like played 1 match in 1 min. Now as I said above in each and every match I faced atleast one tanker. Don’t have any exact data though. Yo have a wrong impression if you think there are only few tankers. I can say there might be more tankers than players in whole champ & legend leaugue . And from tankers I am only pointing out those where any other players literally can’t face them with their gears. There are many others who still drop and it is too hard to kill them but still can be killed if played skilfully. (Like a lvl6 grif against a lvl 9/10lance etc). I am only considering those guys with lvl 10+ gears in d3 or lower as tankers.

dss001

Recruit



Posts: 7

Karma: 3

Pilot name: dss001

League: Expert

Server Region: North America

Recruit A flawed Rating Points Distribution. via mobile Quote Select Post

Select Post Deselect Post

Deselect Post Link to Post

Link to Post Member Give Gift

Member Back to Top Post by dss001 on Anyone who thinks only a few people are tanking is a minor issue is clueless.



It is rampant in the lower leagues.



I am in Silver I and I couldn’t understand why I run into hangers with players with thousands of wins and multiple maxed out hangers all with level 12 MK2 dashbots and Shocktrains.



It is nuts! Every 3-4 matches I am up against one of these hangers and/or they are on my team. Either way it sucks because they single handily annihalate all the bots and they win all the gold.



I started to research how they could be in Silver and Gold league and I found several post and YouTube videos explaining exactly how to tank. Ie



(MODERATION: LINK REMOVED)



It is out of control. I have complained to Pixonic using the games HELP button showing them pictures and they couldn’t care less. I have complained at least 20 times and their response is always “sorry that you don’t like the matchmaking. We are always making updates...”. I stopped complaining when a support representative told me to “stop whining and buy the dashbots and Shocktrains weapons if I want to be competitive.



Damn I am only in Silver and I have already put $200.00 into this game and I I can’t afford to start buying dash bots with shocktrains and even if I could you know that they’ll just create new bots in a few months that turn the Haechi from a wolf into a sheep.



It’s to bad. The game is awesome but it seems pretty clear that Pixonic wants us low level players to start to get beat up (by tankers) so we get mad enough and buy the expensive bots in order to try to get some revenge but Pixonic is clearly playing us like puppets and they’ll just continue to make something new/faster/better and the cycle will never end.



It seems pretty clear that Tanking is part of Pixonic’s business model and it will never go away.







harryhans3n

Destrier



Posts: 78

Karma: 70

Destrier A flawed Rating Points Distribution. Quote Select Post

Select Post Deselect Post

Deselect Post Link to Post

Link to Post Member Give Gift

Member Back to Top Post by harryhans3n on dss001



Other wise the whole thread will be deleted.



BTW, I am in agreement with your comments.

Tanking is rampant, more so in Asia servers.



Pixonic either doesn't want to make wholesale changes to the League system, or they don't know how to do it.

Management probably planned out what they wish to concentrate in the next 18 months to milk the cow dry, so everything else is put on a back burner.



Tanker report....lol.. what a joke.

I wonder if they will accommodate

- Natasha Zenit report

- 5 cossacks report

- camper report

- fathers allowing their 5 year old kids to play report

- game stupidity report (i.e. playing not to win but just to do damage)

- players mechout their whole hangar chasing beacons.

- players using 5 light bots to complete tasks

- players who doesn't use their best hangar, but testing new low level weapons.

the list goes on.



The system has to automatically decide, who is guilty. NOT by some report means.

Report for chat abuse, yes.. but game abuse should be automatically detected by the system... not done manually like this.



BUT why go to these measures to make players' game miserable. Just revamp the league system to hamper players doing it. Do what ever you want in game, but the system will automatically bring up your rating points as soon as it detects you are out of your "proper" league.

please remove the youtube link. It is against the rules of this forum board.Other wise the whole thread will be deleted.BTW, I am in agreement with your comments.Tanking is rampant, more so in Asia servers.Pixonic either doesn't want to make wholesale changes to the League system, or they don't know how to do it.Management probably planned out what they wish to concentrate in the next 18 months to milk the cow dry, so everything else is put on a back burner.Tanker report....lol.. what a joke.I wonder if they will accommodate- Natasha Zenit report- 5 cossacks report- camper report- fathers allowing their 5 year old kids to play report- game stupidity report (i.e. playing not to win but just to do damage)- players mechout their whole hangar chasing beacons.- players using 5 light bots to complete tasks- players who doesn't use their best hangar, but testing new low level weapons.the list goes on.The system has to automatically decide, who is guilty. NOT by some report means.Report for chat abuse, yes.. but game abuse should be automatically detected by the system... not done manually like this.BUT why go to these measures to make players' game miserable. Just revamp the league system to hamper players doing it. Do what ever you want in game, but the system will automatically bring up your rating points as soon as it detects you are out of your "proper" league.