KlinKz Profile Joined April 2010 Canada 115 Posts Last Edited: 2012-10-24 07:18:29 #6161 http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/11zmh2/who_else_was_disgusted_when_you_saw_incontrol_and/c6qyah6



LOL nice way to attack destiny incontrol WHILE Destiny has continuously apologized we have seen you at a new low. i sortve lost respect for you now, though LOL wtf am i reading this is not INcontrol, but feels like someone OUTofControl!



stay calm cool and collected, f destiny (though hes awesome) and just calm the down bro. LOL nice way to attack destiny incontrol WHILE Destiny has continuously apologized we have seen you at a new low. i sortve lost respect for you now, though LOL wtf am i reading this is not INcontrol, but feels like someone OUTofControl!stay calm cool and collected, f destiny (though hes awesome) and just calm the down bro. Go Bisons Go!

iNcontroL Profile Blog Joined July 2004 USA 29048 Posts #6162 On October 24 2012 16:08 Ballistixz wrote:

Show nested quote +

On October 24 2012 16:06 Blackhawk13 wrote:

Incontrol, I think you better do yourself a favor and call it a night on this thread. Nothing good can come out of posting here- especially while you're still heated.





he already did. i guess he realized that arguing, calling ppl idiots, and making bets with people on the internet ruins his already bad reputation. he already did. i guess he realized that arguing, calling ppl idiots, and making bets with people on the internet ruins his already bad reputation.



Actually my "bad reputation" has made me one of the most followed, listened to and publicized figures in SC2. You want to take another crack at pretending I am not doing this right? Actually my "bad reputation" has made me one of the most followed, listened to and publicized figures in SC2. You want to take another crack at pretending I am not doing this right?

IdrA Profile Blog Joined July 2004 United States 11540 Posts #6163 On October 24 2012 16:04 TheWorldToCome wrote:

Wheat's analogy with American Idol/Breaking Bad was literally the dumbest thing I have ever heard.

its a good point, he just didnt get the opportunity to carry the analogy through because everything was getting all stupid. geoff mentioned the reasons, separately, earlier in the show. marketing people are not stupid, they do not just look at viewers and allot money to them proportionately, or put all of their money into whatever has the highest viewership. their goal is to sell products, pure exposure is good and with lol (and american idol) you get that purely because theres so many people watch. however if a big percentage of those people arent likely to buy your product whether you sponsor them or not, it's not really all that important how many people watch. lol has a younger audience, many of them are much more casual fans, they're less likely to have disposable income and less likely to buy a product purely because its attached to their game.



sc2 as an esport has proven its a sustainable, quality product. big companies have invested in it before and are apparently happy with the returns as they keep investing and more companies keep coming in. the fanbase is not going to disappear even if it rises and falls, and its a very dedicated, passionate fanbase.



so for the analogy, lol/american idol fans = 14 year old girls with no money, sc2/breaking bad fans = real people. its a good point, he just didnt get the opportunity to carry the analogy through because everything was getting all stupid. geoff mentioned the reasons, separately, earlier in the show. marketing people are not stupid, they do not just look at viewers and allot money to them proportionately, or put all of their money into whatever has the highest viewership. their goal is to sell products, pure exposure is good and with lol (and american idol) you get that purely because theres so many people watch. however if a big percentage of those people arent likely to buy your product whether you sponsor them or not, it's not really all that important how many people watch. lol has a younger audience, many of them are much more casual fans, they're less likely to have disposable income and less likely to buy a product purely because its attached to their game.sc2 as an esport has proven its a sustainable, quality product. big companies have invested in it before and are apparently happy with the returns as they keep investing and more companies keep coming in. the fanbase is not going to disappear even if it rises and falls, and its a very dedicated, passionate fanbase.so for the analogy, lol/american idol fans = 14 year old girls with no money, sc2/breaking bad fans = real people. http://www.splitreason.com/product/1152 release the gracken tshirt now available

TheSwedishFan Profile Blog Joined July 2012 Sweden 603 Posts #6164 Wow, that was really embarrassing to watch. Especially DjWheats reaction when Destiny left. Wont be tuning in in the future. "Suck it" - Kennigit 2012

Tantaburs Profile Joined August 2010 Canada 1820 Posts #6165 People need to realise that unless SC2 goes FTP it will NEVER have the numbers either in stream viewers or in player base that LoL does. You can add all the casual features you want but it won't bring the number up to what LoL has and I don't think that is a problem.



If I tell my friend he should try SC2 because it is really fun and you have an unranked ladder and chat channels and clan support and great custom games but my other friend says "no you should try LoL it is free" 9 times out of ten they guy is going to play the free game because there is no risk. "One cannot play StarCraft with clenched fish.." ~Nick "Confucius" Plott

JPSke Profile Joined August 2010 United States 54 Posts #6166 On October 24 2012 16:17 iNcontroL wrote:

Show nested quote +

On October 24 2012 16:08 Ballistixz wrote:

On October 24 2012 16:06 Blackhawk13 wrote:

Incontrol, I think you better do yourself a favor and call it a night on this thread. Nothing good can come out of posting here- especially while you're still heated.





he already did. i guess he realized that arguing, calling ppl idiots, and making bets with people on the internet ruins his already bad reputation. he already did. i guess he realized that arguing, calling ppl idiots, and making bets with people on the internet ruins his already bad reputation.



Actually my "bad reputation" has made me one of the most followed, listened to and publicized figures in SC2. You want to take another crack at pretending I am not doing this right? Actually my "bad reputation" has made me one of the most followed, listened to and publicized figures in SC2. You want to take another crack at pretending I am not doing this right?



Yes, yes, you're a brilliant marketer. I only hope your fragile emotions can handle being involved in another drama-fest. I get it, it's schtick(entertaining schtick even), but at some point people have to catch on when you're so goddamn blatant. Yes, yes, you're a brilliant marketer. I only hope your fragile emotions can handle being involved in another drama-fest. I get it, it's schtick(entertaining schtick even), but at some point people have to catch on when you're so goddamn blatant.

Misoza Profile Joined June 2010 Australia 545 Posts #6167 On October 24 2012 15:20 theJob wrote:

Please don't ever get destiny on the show again. A bunch of incoherent yelling and cursing.



Props for the rest of the crew for keeping calm.



edit: and as always painuser is being clueless







Seriously, what the fuck show were you watching?



How can you even say "Props to the rest of the crew for keeping calm" after watching Wheat have a disgraceful apoplectic fit that embarrasses the SC2 scene as a whole seeing as he was considered a "pillar of the community" before this in many peoples eyes.





Not in my eyes anymore, I can tell you that. Seriously, what the fuck show were you watching?How can you even say "Props to the rest of the crew for keeping calm" after watching Wheat have a disgraceful apoplectic fit that embarrasses the SC2 scene as a whole seeing as he was considered a "pillar of the community" before this in many peoples eyes.Not in my eyes anymore, I can tell you that.

1handsomE Profile Blog Joined July 2011 United States 182 Posts #6168 On October 24 2012 16:18 IdrA wrote:

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On October 24 2012 16:04 TheWorldToCome wrote:

Wheat's analogy with American Idol/Breaking Bad was literally the dumbest thing I have ever heard.

its a good point, he just didnt get the opportunity to carry the analogy through because everything was getting all stupid. geoff mentioned the reasons, separately, earlier in the show. marketing people are not stupid, they do not just look at viewers and allot money to them proportionately, or put all of their money into whatever has the highest viewership. their goal is to sell products, pure exposure is good and with lol (and american idol) you get that purely because theres so many people watch. however if a big percentage of those people arent likely to buy your product whether you sponsor them or not, it's not really all that important how many people watch. lol has a younger audience, many of them are much more casual fans, they're less likely to have disposable income and less likely to buy a product purely because its attached to their game.



sc2 as an esport has proven its a sustainable, quality product. big companies have invested in it before and are apparently happy with the returns as they keep investing and more companies keep coming in. the fanbase is not going to disappear even if it rises and falls, and its a very dedicated, passionate fanbase.



so for the analogy, lol/american idol fans = 14 year old girls with no money, sc2/breaking bad fans = real people. its a good point, he just didnt get the opportunity to carry the analogy through because everything was getting all stupid. geoff mentioned the reasons, separately, earlier in the show. marketing people are not stupid, they do not just look at viewers and allot money to them proportionately, or put all of their money into whatever has the highest viewership. their goal is to sell products, pure exposure is good and with lol (and american idol) you get that purely because theres so many people watch. however if a big percentage of those people arent likely to buy your product whether you sponsor them or not, it's not really all that important how many people watch. lol has a younger audience, many of them are much more casual fans, they're less likely to have disposable income and less likely to buy a product purely because its attached to their game.sc2 as an esport has proven its a sustainable, quality product. big companies have invested in it before and are apparently happy with the returns as they keep investing and more companies keep coming in. the fanbase is not going to disappear even if it rises and falls, and its a very dedicated, passionate fanbase.so for the analogy, lol/american idol fans = 14 year old girls with no money, sc2/breaking bad fans = real people.



Couldn't agree more. wheat's final point think for yourself is not being used or something. Couldn't agree more. wheat's final point think for yourself is not being used or something. MarineKing / Jaedong / DeMusliM / SeleCT / Maru hwaiting!

Tantaburs Profile Joined August 2010 Canada 1820 Posts #6169 On October 24 2012 16:18 TheSwedishFan wrote:

Wow, that was really embarrassing to watch. Especially DjWheats reaction when Destiny left. Wont be tuning in in the future.





Really Wheats reaction of being upset with destiny is more embarassing then Destiny realising that his argument was terrible and insulting the host for having better tourney results then he has ever had then rage quitting the call? Really Wheats reaction of being upset with destiny is more embarassing then Destiny realising that his argument was terrible and insulting the host for having better tourney results then he has ever had then rage quitting the call? "One cannot play StarCraft with clenched fish.." ~Nick "Confucius" Plott

GolemMadness Profile Blog Joined September 2010 Canada 8533 Posts #6170 On October 24 2012 14:47 iNcontroL wrote:

I didn't insult destiny the entire time. So tired of people being able to just post lies on forums. Yeah eyah you get ignored and nobody replies but fuck you.



I was insulting during my rant which was hammed to all fuck up. He then did the same thing during all of his rants where he injected personal insults yet I get all the credit?



ALSO what the FUCK. ONLY on the internet would a fucking high five be anything other than a stupid fucking joke. I DON'T ACTUALLY HIGH FIVE GUYS. I Haven't since highschool when I played football. STOP BEING SO NECK BEARDY



It's a hyperbole. Obviously I didn't mean literally the entire time. It's a hyperbole. Obviously I didn't mean literally the entire time. http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=FLABREZU

KlinKz Profile Joined April 2010 Canada 115 Posts #6171 On October 24 2012 16:18 IdrA wrote:

Show nested quote +

On October 24 2012 16:04 TheWorldToCome wrote:

Wheat's analogy with American Idol/Breaking Bad was literally the dumbest thing I have ever heard.

its a good point, he just didnt get the opportunity to carry the analogy through because everything was getting all stupid. geoff mentioned the reasons, separately, earlier in the show. marketing people are not stupid, they do not just look at viewers and allot money to them proportionately, or put all of their money into whatever has the highest viewership. their goal is to sell products, pure exposure is good and with lol (and american idol) you get that purely because theres so many people watch. however if a big percentage of those people arent likely to buy your product whether you sponsor them or not, it's not really all that important how many people watch. lol has a younger audience, many of them are much more casual fans, they're less likely to have disposable income and less likely to buy a product purely because its attached to their game.



sc2 as an esport has proven its a sustainable, quality product. big companies have invested in it before and are apparently happy with the returns as they keep investing and more companies keep coming in. the fanbase is not going to disappear even if it rises and falls, and its a very dedicated, passionate fanbase.



so for the analogy, lol/american idol fans = 14 year old girls with no money, sc2/breaking bad fans = real people. its a good point, he just didnt get the opportunity to carry the analogy through because everything was getting all stupid. geoff mentioned the reasons, separately, earlier in the show. marketing people are not stupid, they do not just look at viewers and allot money to them proportionately, or put all of their money into whatever has the highest viewership. their goal is to sell products, pure exposure is good and with lol (and american idol) you get that purely because theres so many people watch. however if a big percentage of those people arent likely to buy your product whether you sponsor them or not, it's not really all that important how many people watch. lol has a younger audience, many of them are much more casual fans, they're less likely to have disposable income and less likely to buy a product purely because its attached to their game.sc2 as an esport has proven its a sustainable, quality product. big companies have invested in it before and are apparently happy with the returns as they keep investing and more companies keep coming in. the fanbase is not going to disappear even if it rises and falls, and its a very dedicated, passionate fanbase.so for the analogy, lol/american idol fans = 14 year old girls with no money, sc2/breaking bad fans = real people.



you forget that when ppl go to american idol, they pay tickets to go there, sponsors love sponsoring those events cause alot of ppl watch and I DO swear 14 yr old girls DO spend A shit load of money for shit they dont even need. IMO 14 yr old girls is a better market place because they spend on IMPULSE. real ppl must asset if they need it, if it would be good for them, etc etc.



to think a 14 yr old girl given her parents card goes on a fucking shopping spree (aka my sister) and my mother is a straight up conservative (who made me buy school supplies at the at of 14 because pencils dont grow out of tress bullshit) you forget that when ppl go to american idol, they pay tickets to go there, sponsors love sponsoring those events cause alot of ppl watch and I DO swear 14 yr old girls DO spend A shit load of money for shit they dont even need. IMO 14 yr old girls is a better market place because they spend on IMPULSE. real ppl must asset if they need it, if it would be good for them, etc etc.to think a 14 yr old girl given her parents card goes on a fucking shopping spree (aka my sister) and my mother is a straight up conservative (who made me buy school supplies at the at of 14 because pencils dont grow out of tress bullshit) Go Bisons Go!

IdrA Profile Blog Joined July 2004 United States 11540 Posts #6172 On October 24 2012 16:21 KlinKz wrote:

Show nested quote +

On October 24 2012 16:18 IdrA wrote:

On October 24 2012 16:04 TheWorldToCome wrote:

Wheat's analogy with American Idol/Breaking Bad was literally the dumbest thing I have ever heard.

its a good point, he just didnt get the opportunity to carry the analogy through because everything was getting all stupid. geoff mentioned the reasons, separately, earlier in the show. marketing people are not stupid, they do not just look at viewers and allot money to them proportionately, or put all of their money into whatever has the highest viewership. their goal is to sell products, pure exposure is good and with lol (and american idol) you get that purely because theres so many people watch. however if a big percentage of those people arent likely to buy your product whether you sponsor them or not, it's not really all that important how many people watch. lol has a younger audience, many of them are much more casual fans, they're less likely to have disposable income and less likely to buy a product purely because its attached to their game.



sc2 as an esport has proven its a sustainable, quality product. big companies have invested in it before and are apparently happy with the returns as they keep investing and more companies keep coming in. the fanbase is not going to disappear even if it rises and falls, and its a very dedicated, passionate fanbase.



so for the analogy, lol/american idol fans = 14 year old girls with no money, sc2/breaking bad fans = real people. its a good point, he just didnt get the opportunity to carry the analogy through because everything was getting all stupid. geoff mentioned the reasons, separately, earlier in the show. marketing people are not stupid, they do not just look at viewers and allot money to them proportionately, or put all of their money into whatever has the highest viewership. their goal is to sell products, pure exposure is good and with lol (and american idol) you get that purely because theres so many people watch. however if a big percentage of those people arent likely to buy your product whether you sponsor them or not, it's not really all that important how many people watch. lol has a younger audience, many of them are much more casual fans, they're less likely to have disposable income and less likely to buy a product purely because its attached to their game.sc2 as an esport has proven its a sustainable, quality product. big companies have invested in it before and are apparently happy with the returns as they keep investing and more companies keep coming in. the fanbase is not going to disappear even if it rises and falls, and its a very dedicated, passionate fanbase.so for the analogy, lol/american idol fans = 14 year old girls with no money, sc2/breaking bad fans = real people.



you forget that when ppl go to american idol, they pay tickets to go there, sponsors love sponsoring those events cause alot of ppl watch and I DO swear 14 yr old girls DO spend A shit load of money for shit they dont even need. IMO 14 yr old girls is a better market place because they spend on IMPULSE. real ppl must asset if they need it, if it would be good for them, etc etc.



to think a 14 yr old girl given her parents card goes on a fucking shopping spree (aka my sister) and my mother is a straight up conservative (who made me buy school supplies at the at of 14 because pencils dont grow out of tress bullshit) you forget that when ppl go to american idol, they pay tickets to go there, sponsors love sponsoring those events cause alot of ppl watch and I DO swear 14 yr old girls DO spend A shit load of money for shit they dont even need. IMO 14 yr old girls is a better market place because they spend on IMPULSE. real ppl must asset if they need it, if it would be good for them, etc etc.to think a 14 yr old girl given her parents card goes on a fucking shopping spree (aka my sister) and my mother is a straight up conservative (who made me buy school supplies at the at of 14 because pencils dont grow out of tress bullshit)

-_- -_- http://www.splitreason.com/product/1152 release the gracken tshirt now available

Ballistixz Profile Joined January 2010 United States 1269 Posts #6173 On October 24 2012 16:15 seffer wrote:

Show nested quote +

On October 24 2012 16:11 Ballistixz wrote:

On October 24 2012 16:06 Scrabo wrote:

On October 24 2012 16:04 TheWorldToCome wrote:

Wheat's analogy with American Idol/Breaking Bad was literally the dumbest thing I have ever heard.



Don't ruin breaking bad trying to get the same viewing numbers as American Idol.



You don't have to be the biggest show to still be a great show.

Don't ruin breaking bad trying to get the same viewing numbers as American Idol.You don't have to be the biggest show to still be a great show.





breaking bad is a great show, SC2 is not a great game. but this is all opinion of course, which is why DJs wheat analogy was extremly stupid. some ppl will say that american idol>breaking bad. breaking bad is a great show, SC2 is not a great game. but this is all opinion of course, which is why DJs wheat analogy was extremly stupid. some ppl will say that american idol>breaking bad.





That and they are both as accessible as one another in terms of being free to watch. This is what SC2 and LoL do not have in common, since LoL is much more of a smooth and friendly gaming experience (despite the fact that they both cater to different audiences in the way that Breaking bad and American Idol do, SC2 could do a LOT to improve in this aspect). That and they are both as accessible as one another in terms of being free to watch. This is what SC2 and LoL do not have in common, since LoL is much more of a smooth and friendly gaming experience (despite the fact that they both cater to different audiences in the way that Breaking bad and American Idol do, SC2 could do a LOT to improve in this aspect).



yup exactly. read my edit to if u want. ever since blizzard decided to release SC2 in 3 parts (WoL, HoTS, and LoTV) they have been purposely handicapping themselves seemingly out of pure greed. they release a unfinished low quality game and then 6 years later finish that game with high quality in the form of 2 more expansion packs that you HAVE to buy.



i think that is the real sad part about all of this is because LoL did not need to resort to such a thing, so why does blizzard? imagine how good the game would be if they actually had all the features WE WERE PROMISED right out the box? same thing with D3 come to think of it. D3 still doesnt have fucking pvp... blizzard is so disgusting with these business decisions that they make. yup exactly. read my edit to if u want. ever since blizzard decided to release SC2 in 3 parts (WoL, HoTS, and LoTV) they have been purposely handicapping themselves seemingly out of pure greed. they release a unfinished low quality game and then 6 years later finish that game with high quality in the form of 2 more expansion packs that you HAVE to buy.i think that is the real sad part about all of this is because LoL did not need to resort to such a thing, so why does blizzard? imagine how good the game would be if they actually had all the features WE WERE PROMISED right out the box? same thing with D3 come to think of it. D3 still doesnt have fucking pvp... blizzard is so disgusting with these business decisions that they make.

itiswhatitis Profile Joined February 2011 United States 136 Posts #6174 On October 24 2012 16:14 1handsomE wrote:

Show nested quote +

On October 24 2012 16:10 itiswhatitis wrote:

On October 24 2012 16:08 1handsomE wrote:

On October 24 2012 16:06 itiswhatitis wrote:

On October 24 2012 16:04 1handsomE wrote:

On October 24 2012 16:02 itiswhatitis wrote:

On October 24 2012 16:00 1handsomE wrote:

On October 24 2012 15:37 itiswhatitis wrote:

On October 24 2012 15:35 1handsomE wrote:

On October 24 2012 15:33 JPSke wrote:

Why don't we spend 14 more pages talking about bullshit and drama instead of addressing the real issue at hand.



SC2 is in comparative if not actual decline. It went from a flagship for E-sports to a major competitor to a somewhat nostalgic tertiary figure in 18 months. Its direct competitors have out-innovated it, out-marketed it, and out-positioned it with a free to play model, integrated advertising, LAN support, and a social integration within their client.



More importantly, the developers behind the two games dominating the current E-Sports market are incredibly responsive and engage with their playerbase regularly. Riot, much like Blizzard, develops at a glacial pace, but they do so while, for the most part, keeping their customers in the loop and maintaining a positive relationship. Blizzard's quality of game has fallen off a cliff, they don't listen to literally anyone, and for their last four releases I would wager to say customer satisfaction has been majorly lacking.



What does this all have to do with Destiny's point, and ITG's reaction? Well everyone on the show agreed that Blizzard sucks, they aren't communicative, and that they would like changes to be made. However the crux of their argument seemed to be that Destiny went about advocating for that change in the wrong way. He was over the top. He was doom and gloom. He made up statistics. This is all fine, but their corrective measures seemed to be to tell Destiny that "This isn't the way to do it". The problem is that the way the ITG guys are advocating is the way they've been trying to do it for two years, and it clearly isn't working. So maybe Destiny made some mistakes in how he framed his argument, but his overall point about the need to somehow spur Blizzard into action remains. While the SC2 scene certainly isn't going to disappear it is going to be left further and further behind by existing and up and coming competitors who are being actively developed for, who do bring in casual players, who do monetize their product without a major up front cost, and who understand the power of integration within the game client itself.



So I ask those of you who care about the Starcraft scene, what can we do about it? It seems to be that now, when Blizzard is finishing development and starting their marketing campaign for a new, premium expansion, is the exact right time to apply a little pressure. They want to sell those boxes, yet they refuse to engage with the community in any meaningful sort of way and address the concerns that are dragging this game down. When, if not now, are we going to figure out a way to get the support from Blizzard we need? Or is it as IdrA said, a lost cause, Blizzard won't change no matter what we do, and we're all wasting our time playing/following/spectating on a game that has very little development support and no real hope of long term growth?



Or, you know, keep calling each other shitheads and worrying about who started it.



Do you like LoL better than SC2? Your argument hinges on it, so I am curious.

Do you like LoL better than SC2? Your argument hinges on it, so I am curious.



Really? After he wrote all that, that's what you respond with? He didn't even say he liked it better. The post is right there to re-read...

Really? After he wrote all that, that's what you respond with? He didn't even say he liked it better. The post is right there to re-read...



That's why I am asking, he never said either way. But if he doesn't like LoL better, than his argument is invalid. He says riot is doing a better job, then he should like their game better right? common sense.



So to your post I say what the heck man?

That's why I am asking, he never said either way. But if he doesn't like LoL better, than his argument is invalid. He says riot is doing a better job, then he should like their game better right? common sense.So to your post I say what the heck man?



That doesn't make any sense. You're assuming that believing a company is doing a better job means that you like their game more. It doesn't, I don't know where you got that. That doesn't make any sense. You're assuming that believing a company is doing a better job means that you like their game more. It doesn't, I don't know where you got that.



If the game isn't better then on what scale are they doing better? Perhaps there is something you don't understand... this is very basic... If the game isn't better then on what scale are they doing better? Perhaps there is something you don't understand... this is very basic...



Don't try to talk to me like I don't understand what I'm saying. It really is simple. Believing a company is doing a better job at supporting and growing their product does NOT mean you prefer that game automatically. Do you not see that? I could say there are many companies who support their products better than Bliz, that does not mean I prefer those games over Bliz games. I like the games I like. Don't try to talk to me like I don't understand what I'm saying. It really is simple. Believing a company is doing a better job at supporting and growing their product does NOT mean you prefer that game automatically. Do you not see that? I could say there are many companies who support their products better than Bliz, that does not mean I prefer those games over Bliz games. I like the games I like.



But since we are talking about an opinion, and this type of thing is only quantifiable by an opinion, than how on earth can one do better and produce worse? Your opinion matters because doing better is not quantifiable outside of anything outside of opinion.



You can say 'they put more money into their game', or 'they did x,y,z feature', but you can't say better. it has to be a better product to be better. Don't know how this is complicated.

But since we are talking about an opinion, and this type of thing is only quantifiable by an opinion, than how on earth can one do better and produce worse? Your opinion matters because doing better is not quantifiable outside of anything outside of opinion.You can say 'they put more money into their game', or 'they did x,y,z feature', but you can't say better. it has to be a better product to be better. Don't know how this is complicated.



Your unnecessary condescension is getting on my nerves. You aren't as smart as you think you are and you are arguing pointless semantics while ignoring my point. Believing a company HANDLES their game better does not mean you think they made a better game. Please stop with all the "it's simple stuff" crap, I obviously do understand what you are saying, you've not said one thing that was over my head.

Your unnecessary condescension is getting on my nerves. You aren't as smart as you think you are and you are arguing pointless semantics while ignoring my point. Believing a company HANDLES their game better does not mean you think they made a better game. Please stop with all the "it's simple stuff" crap, I obviously do understand what you are saying, you've not said one thing that was over my head.



In truth, I think you are ignoring my point. I am saying 'how are you quantifying this?' To me, it seems like if they 'handled' it better, they would produce a 'better' game.



Like I said before, you can say 'they put more money', or 'they have x,y,z feature', but using generalizations on opinions requires you to like the end product better. Otherwise your generalization about them 'handling it better' is invalid. Which is what I was saying in the very first place.



EDIT: And the implied piece of this argument is that the end product, not the means to get there is all that matters. And if you like SC2 more than LoL does it matter if LoL is pumping money into the game/ doing x,y,z feature? The clear answer is, no. In truth, I think you are ignoring my point. I am saying 'how are you quantifying this?' To me, it seems like if they 'handled' it better, they would produce a 'better' game.Like I said before, you can say 'they put more money', or 'they have x,y,z feature', but using generalizations on opinions requires you to like the end product better. Otherwise your generalization about them 'handling it better' is invalid. Which is what I was saying in the very first place.EDIT: And the implied piece of this argument is that the end product, not the means to get there is all that matters. And if you like SC2 more than LoL does it matter if LoL is pumping money into the game/ doing x,y,z feature? The clear answer is, no.



I just STILL don't get your logic. You're still operating under the assumption that better handling = better game. I explained why that isn't so automatically in very simple terms. People like what they like. If I'm not into a game, I won't prefer it over a game I am into, regardless of whether or not I think the company manages the game better. I love sc2 and prefer it over most games, but that definitely doesn't mean I think sc2 is the best handled game out there by their company, far from it. I just STILL don't get your logic. You're still operating under the assumption that better handling = better game. I explained why that isn't so automatically in very simple terms. People like what they like. If I'm not into a game, I won't prefer it over a game I am into, regardless of whether or not I think the company manages the game better. I love sc2 and prefer it over most games, but that definitely doesn't mean I think sc2 is the best handled game out there by their company, far from it. "The bad artists imitate. The great artists steal." -itiswhatitis

Kashmir_33 Profile Joined October 2012 United States 2 Posts #6175 Destiny obviously cares about the game and is quite passionate in how blizzard isn't taking the right steps for people who want to play the game on a more casual bases. No way you can possibly deny that unless you are a complete idiot. If you think they are, then when the hell is it ever going to be shown in actual concrete results...There is no excuse for a MAJOR company like that with income from SOOOOOOO many sources and have a huge group of qualified teams dedicated to these issues could possibly put off things that can be implemented so simply in comparison to the major projects they are working on and have already finished. Destiny was right and no one else was providing ANY solid theories or answers to the situation other than "They don't care what we think, leave it at that." You have to be a babbling moron to believe that if enough people actually give feedback that they wouldn't actually attempt to make a change. Having a few "pro" players in the scene doesn't make them automatically change everything just because they say it isn't right. Even though these high skilled players have huge fanbases and are linked to sponsors doesn't automatically give them a sanction to say whatever they want and blizzard will instantly fall under their "commands."

Tantaburs Profile Joined August 2010 Canada 1820 Posts #6176 On October 24 2012 16:18 IdrA wrote:

Show nested quote +

On October 24 2012 16:04 TheWorldToCome wrote:

Wheat's analogy with American Idol/Breaking Bad was literally the dumbest thing I have ever heard.

its a good point, he just didnt get the opportunity to carry the analogy through because everything was getting all stupid. geoff mentioned the reasons, separately, earlier in the show. marketing people are not stupid, they do not just look at viewers and allot money to them proportionately, or put all of their money into whatever has the highest viewership. their goal is to sell products, pure exposure is good and with lol (and american idol) you get that purely because theres so many people watch. however if a big percentage of those people arent likely to buy your product whether you sponsor them or not, it's not really all that important how many people watch. lol has a younger audience, many of them are much more casual fans, they're less likely to have disposable income and less likely to buy a product purely because its attached to their game.



sc2 as an esport has proven its a sustainable, quality product. big companies have invested in it before and are apparently happy with the returns as they keep investing and more companies keep coming in. the fanbase is not going to disappear even if it rises and falls, and its a very dedicated, passionate fanbase.



so for the analogy, lol/american idol fans = 14 year old girls with no money, sc2/breaking bad fans = real people. its a good point, he just didnt get the opportunity to carry the analogy through because everything was getting all stupid. geoff mentioned the reasons, separately, earlier in the show. marketing people are not stupid, they do not just look at viewers and allot money to them proportionately, or put all of their money into whatever has the highest viewership. their goal is to sell products, pure exposure is good and with lol (and american idol) you get that purely because theres so many people watch. however if a big percentage of those people arent likely to buy your product whether you sponsor them or not, it's not really all that important how many people watch. lol has a younger audience, many of them are much more casual fans, they're less likely to have disposable income and less likely to buy a product purely because its attached to their game.sc2 as an esport has proven its a sustainable, quality product. big companies have invested in it before and are apparently happy with the returns as they keep investing and more companies keep coming in. the fanbase is not going to disappear even if it rises and falls, and its a very dedicated, passionate fanbase.so for the analogy, lol/american idol fans = 14 year old girls with no money, sc2/breaking bad fans = real people.



It wasn't a great point. Yes Breaking Bad is a better show and yes i think that SC2 is a better game but American Idol makes far more money then Breaking Bad does which is Destiny's point in the LoL vs SC2 argument

It wasn't a great point. Yes Breaking Bad is a better show and yes i think that SC2 is a better game but American Idol makes far more money then Breaking Bad does which is Destiny's point in the LoL vs SC2 argument "One cannot play StarCraft with clenched fish.." ~Nick "Confucius" Plott

Nubbinz Profile Joined November 2010 United States 52 Posts Last Edited: 2012-10-24 07:27:32 #6177 It's obvious Destiny's heart is not into SC2 so he will say whatever he wants to gain viewership outside of SC2. All he does is stream LOL almost always now and doesn't do well in any tournaments so what does he have to lose by nay saying or telling us all why SC2 will fail? Nothing. He only stands to gain from any of this and we are all the fools for it.

Ballistixz Profile Joined January 2010 United States 1269 Posts Last Edited: 2012-10-24 07:27:58 #6178 On October 24 2012 16:17 iNcontroL wrote:

Show nested quote +

On October 24 2012 16:08 Ballistixz wrote:

On October 24 2012 16:06 Blackhawk13 wrote:

Incontrol, I think you better do yourself a favor and call it a night on this thread. Nothing good can come out of posting here- especially while you're still heated.





he already did. i guess he realized that arguing, calling ppl idiots, and making bets with people on the internet ruins his already bad reputation. he already did. i guess he realized that arguing, calling ppl idiots, and making bets with people on the internet ruins his already bad reputation.



Actually my "bad reputation" has made me one of the most followed, listened to and publicized figures in SC2. You want to take another crack at pretending I am not doing this right? Actually my "bad reputation" has made me one of the most followed, listened to and publicized figures in SC2. You want to take another crack at pretending I am not doing this right?





the amount of sheer arrogance you have is amazing. i mean seriously, it blows my mind. the amount of sheer arrogance you have is amazing. i mean seriously, it blows my mind.

jmbthirteen Profile Blog Joined February 2011 United States 10249 Posts #6179 On October 24 2012 16:25 Tantaburs wrote:

Show nested quote +

On October 24 2012 16:18 IdrA wrote:

On October 24 2012 16:04 TheWorldToCome wrote:

Wheat's analogy with American Idol/Breaking Bad was literally the dumbest thing I have ever heard.

its a good point, he just didnt get the opportunity to carry the analogy through because everything was getting all stupid. geoff mentioned the reasons, separately, earlier in the show. marketing people are not stupid, they do not just look at viewers and allot money to them proportionately, or put all of their money into whatever has the highest viewership. their goal is to sell products, pure exposure is good and with lol (and american idol) you get that purely because theres so many people watch. however if a big percentage of those people arent likely to buy your product whether you sponsor them or not, it's not really all that important how many people watch. lol has a younger audience, many of them are much more casual fans, they're less likely to have disposable income and less likely to buy a product purely because its attached to their game.



sc2 as an esport has proven its a sustainable, quality product. big companies have invested in it before and are apparently happy with the returns as they keep investing and more companies keep coming in. the fanbase is not going to disappear even if it rises and falls, and its a very dedicated, passionate fanbase.



so for the analogy, lol/american idol fans = 14 year old girls with no money, sc2/breaking bad fans = real people. its a good point, he just didnt get the opportunity to carry the analogy through because everything was getting all stupid. geoff mentioned the reasons, separately, earlier in the show. marketing people are not stupid, they do not just look at viewers and allot money to them proportionately, or put all of their money into whatever has the highest viewership. their goal is to sell products, pure exposure is good and with lol (and american idol) you get that purely because theres so many people watch. however if a big percentage of those people arent likely to buy your product whether you sponsor them or not, it's not really all that important how many people watch. lol has a younger audience, many of them are much more casual fans, they're less likely to have disposable income and less likely to buy a product purely because its attached to their game.sc2 as an esport has proven its a sustainable, quality product. big companies have invested in it before and are apparently happy with the returns as they keep investing and more companies keep coming in. the fanbase is not going to disappear even if it rises and falls, and its a very dedicated, passionate fanbase.so for the analogy, lol/american idol fans = 14 year old girls with no money, sc2/breaking bad fans = real people.



It wasn't a great point. Yes Breaking Bad is a better show and yes i think that SC2 is a better game but American Idol makes far more money then Breaking Bad does which is Destiny's point in the LoL vs SC2 argument

It wasn't a great point. Yes Breaking Bad is a better show and yes i think that SC2 is a better game but American Idol makes far more money then Breaking Bad does which is Destiny's point in the LoL vs SC2 argument

but destiny's point is also that SC2 is dying because its not at LoL numbers.... but destiny's point is also that SC2 is dying because its not at LoL numbers.... www.superbeerbrothers.com

KlinKz Profile Joined April 2010 Canada 115 Posts #6180 On October 24 2012 16:24 IdrA wrote:

Show nested quote +

On October 24 2012 16:21 KlinKz wrote:

On October 24 2012 16:18 IdrA wrote:

On October 24 2012 16:04 TheWorldToCome wrote:

Wheat's analogy with American Idol/Breaking Bad was literally the dumbest thing I have ever heard.

its a good point, he just didnt get the opportunity to carry the analogy through because everything was getting all stupid. geoff mentioned the reasons, separately, earlier in the show. marketing people are not stupid, they do not just look at viewers and allot money to them proportionately, or put all of their money into whatever has the highest viewership. their goal is to sell products, pure exposure is good and with lol (and american idol) you get that purely because theres so many people watch. however if a big percentage of those people arent likely to buy your product whether you sponsor them or not, it's not really all that important how many people watch. lol has a younger audience, many of them are much more casual fans, they're less likely to have disposable income and less likely to buy a product purely because its attached to their game.



sc2 as an esport has proven its a sustainable, quality product. big companies have invested in it before and are apparently happy with the returns as they keep investing and more companies keep coming in. the fanbase is not going to disappear even if it rises and falls, and its a very dedicated, passionate fanbase.



so for the analogy, lol/american idol fans = 14 year old girls with no money, sc2/breaking bad fans = real people. its a good point, he just didnt get the opportunity to carry the analogy through because everything was getting all stupid. geoff mentioned the reasons, separately, earlier in the show. marketing people are not stupid, they do not just look at viewers and allot money to them proportionately, or put all of their money into whatever has the highest viewership. their goal is to sell products, pure exposure is good and with lol (and american idol) you get that purely because theres so many people watch. however if a big percentage of those people arent likely to buy your product whether you sponsor them or not, it's not really all that important how many people watch. lol has a younger audience, many of them are much more casual fans, they're less likely to have disposable income and less likely to buy a product purely because its attached to their game.sc2 as an esport has proven its a sustainable, quality product. big companies have invested in it before and are apparently happy with the returns as they keep investing and more companies keep coming in. the fanbase is not going to disappear even if it rises and falls, and its a very dedicated, passionate fanbase.so for the analogy, lol/american idol fans = 14 year old girls with no money, sc2/breaking bad fans = real people.



you forget that when ppl go to american idol, they pay tickets to go there, sponsors love sponsoring those events cause alot of ppl watch and I DO swear 14 yr old girls DO spend A shit load of money for shit they dont even need. IMO 14 yr old girls is a better market place because they spend on IMPULSE. real ppl must asset if they need it, if it would be good for them, etc etc.



to think a 14 yr old girl given her parents card goes on a fucking shopping spree (aka my sister) and my mother is a straight up conservative (who made me buy school supplies at the at of 14 because pencils dont grow out of tress bullshit) you forget that when ppl go to american idol, they pay tickets to go there, sponsors love sponsoring those events cause alot of ppl watch and I DO swear 14 yr old girls DO spend A shit load of money for shit they dont even need. IMO 14 yr old girls is a better market place because they spend on IMPULSE. real ppl must asset if they need it, if it would be good for them, etc etc.to think a 14 yr old girl given her parents card goes on a fucking shopping spree (aka my sister) and my mother is a straight up conservative (who made me buy school supplies at the at of 14 because pencils dont grow out of tress bullshit)

-_- -_-



I love your argument LoL makes a good profit off little ass kids spamming their moms and dads to buy new shit for their characters, as for sc2... well I buy monster just because EG.Demon someone I truely adore because of his Destiny-Like Trollish Acts who shows his true skill in tournements. Jimmy-Ho fan boy atm, and I love watching demuslim try out dota 2 absolutely loved how pro sc2 player is playing with other members of EG

I love your argument LoL makes a good profit off little ass kids spamming their moms and dads to buy new shit for their characters, as for sc2... well I buy monster just because EG.Demon someone I truely adore because of his Destiny-Like Trollish Acts who shows his true skill in tournements. Jimmy-Ho fan boy atm, and I love watching demuslim try out dota 2 absolutely loved how pro sc2 player is playing with other members of EG Go Bisons Go!

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