LaLuSh Profile Blog Joined April 2003 Sweden 2327 Posts Last Edited: 2015-07-08 17:50:24 #1











The Carrier



In the transition to SC2, many of Brood War's iconic units would be transferred over to a new engine and a new game. However, in the case of the carrier, some subtle details ended up getting lost in translation in the transfer process.



In the infographic above, I've outlined three of what I consider were the most important factors for the carrier's usefulness in intense micro situations. These factors combined in important ways to create a synergy effect which allowed skilled players to consistently fire at targets from maximum range (leash range).



There were other differences in addition to those outlined (such as interceptors below a certain hp/shield threshold in BW automatically returning to the carrier to regenerate), but in my view these additional differences don't impact basic control as much as the listed mechanics.



In the transition to SC2, many of Brood War's iconic units would be transferred over to a new engine and a new game. However, in the case of the carrier, some subtle details ended up getting lost in translation in the transfer process.In the infographic above, I've outlined three of what I consider were the most important factors for the carrier's usefulness in intense micro situations. These factors combined in important ways to create a synergy effect which allowed skilled players to consistently fire at targets from maximum range (leash range).There were other differences in addition to those outlined (such as interceptors below a certain hp/shield threshold in BW automatically returning to the carrier to regenerate), but in my view these additional differences don't impact basic control as much as the listed mechanics. Nony's video

All of these mechanics have already been covered by Nony in his 2012 video comparing BW and SC2 carrier mechanics.



Blizzard did patch the carrier in Heart of the Swarm, presumably in response to that video. Though, they ended up adding only one of the functionalities Nony covered in his video. What Blizzard's carrier patch fixed, was that it allowed a player to retarget between living targets in leash range.



I'll link Nony's video here as well for those who prefer to have it explained in a different medium:









All of these mechanics have already been covered by Nony in his 2012 video comparing BW and SC2 carrier mechanics.Blizzard did patch the carrier in Heart of the Swarm, presumably in response to that video. Though, they ended up adding only one of the functionalities Nony covered in his video. What Blizzard's carrier patch fixed, was that it allowed a player to retarget between living targets in leash range.I'll link Nony's video here as well for those who prefer to have it explained in a different medium: Ahli's BW Carrier Mod

The point of this article is not to repeat all of this information, but rather to inform and create awareness around an existing and fully functional, fully data driven implementation of all these mechanics. The modder Ahli (



Ahli is also involved in other Blizzard games, helping out in the Heroes of the Storm community with his



The mod is called: The point of this article is not to repeat all of this information, but rather to inform and create awareness around an existing and fully functional, fully data driven implementation of all these mechanics. The modder Ahli ( teamliquid profile reddit profile ) is behind this mod, and it's based on an earlier trigger based solution by decemberscalm (both were involved in helping out starbow).Ahli is also involved in other Blizzard games, helping out in the Heroes of the Storm community with his Observer UI . I'd pay extra attention to this guy's feedback in the future Blizz!The mod is called: BW Carrier Micro Mod 1.6 .





Amazing attention to detail. No triggers.







Gfycat illustrations



Retargeting returning interceptors





Trailing Interceptors and immediate deployment









fmod Profile Blog Joined November 2013 Cayman Islands 330 Posts #2 Don't be ridiculous. Blizzard won't make the AI 'worse'! I don't particularly like you.

Heyoka Profile Blog Joined March 2008 Temple of EE-Sama 22504 Posts #3 Petition to have LaLush be a part of the SC2 design team @RealHeyoka | DreamHack StarCrafty Man

JieXian Profile Blog Joined August 2008 Malaysia 4430 Posts Last Edited: 2015-07-08 18:32:35 #4



i learnt something today, especially from Nony. Thanks for the article and the effort, all the best! On July 09 2015 03:30 Heyoka wrote:

Petition to have LaLush be a part of the SC2 design team



if only .. if only..



if only .. if only.. On July 09 2015 03:08 fmod wrote:

Don't be ridiculous. Blizzard won't make the AI 'worse'!



no one likes you either. hahaha no one likes you either. hahaha Please send me a PM of any song you like that I most probably never heard of! I am looking for poeple to chat about writing and producing music | http://www.youtube.com/c/JeiShian |

Ahli Profile Joined May 2012 Germany 341 Posts #5 Also, my mod's Interceptors also fight for a short moment after the Carrier's death and they will return to the Carrier when they are low.



If you encounter bugs/problems, please notify me. AhliSC2@Twitter. - Get the GameHeart Observer Interface: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=21465380 ... Get Heroes of the Storm Observer UI on my twitter. Try my Arcade map "Dia blo - Mortal Shroud" (buggy atm).

purakushi Profile Joined August 2012 United States 3259 Posts Last Edited: 2015-07-08 19:03:36 #6 Unfortunately, Blizzard is content with making a "good enough" game. They probably consider the release interceptors ability in LotV sufficient. June 2010 - August 2017: waiting for the return of Starcraft

LaLuSh Profile Blog Joined April 2003 Sweden 2327 Posts #7 Also worth mentioning is that the loiter radius of interceptors was increased. This lets the interceptors roam around farther from the target when firing.

Musicus Profile Joined August 2011 Germany 23392 Posts #8 Sick input as always LaLuSh, would be really nice to see this fixed in LotV. I think the chances aren't too bad and the work has basically aready be done by Ahli anyway. Maru and Serral are probably top 5.

Cricketer12 Profile Blog Joined May 2012 United States 13096 Posts #9 Nah, lets just get some rocks.



In all seriousness though, brilliant infograph and gifs that display the the information in a clear and concise manner. Brilliantly done. I thank you for this and wish Blizzard would actually look into this. Solemn Strike FTW l SC2 Liquibet Season 17 Winner l I am beyond imagination, succumb to madness.

anatidaus Profile Joined February 2010 Canada 19 Posts Last Edited: 2015-07-08 19:53:20 #10 Great write up!



@david kim: Would appreciate seeing this addressed in an upcoming Community Feedback Update. Knowing Blizzard's thoughts on these Carrier features would be nice.



I'm going to go on a limb and assume that this type of micro isn't viewer friendly enough in Blizz's eyes (it's too "hidden"). [Edit] Or, they think it won't have a big enough impact on gameplay to justify it's inclusion. Somewhere out there, a duck is always watching.

ablagesys Profile Joined April 2012 Austria 18 Posts #11 On July 09 2015 04:22 Musicus wrote:

Sick input as always LaLuSh, would be really nice to see this fixed in LotV.

changed, not fixed changed, not fixed

s.a.y Profile Blog Joined October 2007 Croatia 3761 Posts #12 Great stuff there I am not good with quotes

anatidaus Profile Joined February 2010 Canada 19 Posts #13 On July 09 2015 03:47 LaLuSh wrote:

Also worth mentioning is that the loiter radius of interceptors was increased. This lets the interceptors roam around farther from the target when firing.



Love this change, btw. I always thought the SC2 interceptor animation looked "choked" in some way. I imagine it could act as a soft counter balance to the superior control over the interceptors (they're slightly more vulnerable). Love this change, btw. I always thought the SC2 interceptor animation looked "choked" in some way. I imagine it could act as a soft counter balance to the superior control over the interceptors (they're slightly more vulnerable). Somewhere out there, a duck is always watching.

BigFan Profile Blog Joined December 2010 TLADT 24439 Posts #14 Nice blog. Always wondered why the change was never implemented. Former BW EiC "Watch Bakemonogatari or I will kill you." -Toad, April 18th, 2017

Vansetsu Profile Blog Joined October 2010 United States 1274 Posts #15 I feel like interceptors were alot more durable? Like they were either just more durable, or were completely healed once they docked and relaunched. Perhaps I am wrong? I get the whole leash micro thing, but I always feel like interceptors die a whole lot faster than they used to. Only by overcoming many obstacles does a river become - デイヴィ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ド

vult Profile Blog Joined February 2012 United States 9278 Posts #16 Really great posts Lalush. Amazing read and insight, thanks for bringing this to light with Ahli's work! "I used to play random, but for you I play very specifically." -iNcontroL, impersonating TLO flirting with Apollo, ASUS ROG 2012. RIP Geoff. || Pats and Jags

uh-oh Profile Blog Joined August 2010 Hong Kong 135 Posts Last Edited: 2015-07-08 19:57:25 #17 I've been doing carrier builds since WoL(and stuck at plat forever), played much less recently because of my studies but I think I have a few extra things to say about carriers.



First, carriers are extremely upgrade dependent. Interceptors deal 5(+1/upgrade)x2 damage per attack, so each air attack upgrade increases 20% damage, which is crazy! On the other hand that also means that each point of armor reduces damage by 20%, which is also crazy. I believe it's one of the problems(along with build time) preventing an effective late game carrier transition, because when you try to transition into carriers opponent would already have +2 armor at least, and you have to invest in air attack upgrades to make them actually deal meaningful damage.



Another difference between BW and SC2 carrier is how fragile the interceptors are, in particular affected by the meta they exist in. In BW when you go carriers, terrans counter with goliaths, which are primarily used to damage the carriers themselves and zone them away without being able to tear interceptors apart. In SC2 however, when you go carriers people just counter with stim marines which are really good at melting interceptors. Same thing happens against zerg, albeit to a lesser extent because hydralisks have projectile attacks that takes time to travel to their target, which leads overkill on the interceptors and reducing the overall damage. But there are still fungal growths to consider, once rooted the interceptors simply wont do anything.



For the first problem a simple fix would be to change the interceptors attack to 10x1 to make it less upgrade dependent, or maybe reduce a bit if 50% less armor reduction for the target is too much, they are just numbers anyway.



For the second problem I suppose you could increase interceptor HP. Another idea is to increase the radius which the interceptors circle/flyby their targets when attacking. For those of you who dont know, blizzard stealth patched the interceptor flyby radius a long time ago(you can look at some old White-Ra videos to see them in action). I am not 100% sure about this but perhaps increasing the flyby radius would screw with the targeting AI a bit, as interceptors are constantly entering and getting out of range, anti air fire would have to keep switching targets instead of focusing down a single interceptor, which reduces the chances of them being destroyed.



Finally getting graviton catapult significantly increases interceptor launch speed(to almost instantly, still within launch range though), so please for the love of god research it while your first carrier is building! It's power comes from the fact that you get a damage burst on your first volley, which is probably going to kill a couple of units and immediately remove firepower from the enemy.



PS here's a trick of how I deal with the leash range problem(being unable to instantly launch trailing interceptors at a target between launch range and leash range) when you are trying to snipe a high value target. I approach a target(usually a hatch) I want to snipe from the side, launch interceptors at something within my carriers' launch range, then switch onto the target immediately after the interceptors are out. I think Grubby did this in a super epic WCS EU PvP where he launched his interceptors at his own msc(in front of the carriers), after which he switched target to a fleeing archon within leash range and killed it. When I get to grandmasters, you have my permission to die!

Ahli Profile Joined May 2012 Germany 341 Posts #18 On July 09 2015 04:22 Musicus wrote:

Sick input as always LaLuSh, would be really nice to see this fixed in LotV. I think the chances aren't too bad and the work has basically aready be done by Ahli anyway.

I have only shown that it is possible with a lot of workarounds in the "current" engine. But when Blizzard would add it, they would add features to the engine to allow it much, much easier and with a better performance.



Technically, my implementation is super hacky but functional, e.g. sometimes Interceptors are outside the carrier, invincible and hidden. That is not something Blizzard would release because they can just alter the engine.



Another aspect that is currently not really doable is the Valkyrie's weapon behavior (missile tracking and impacting on a position with a static offset from a moving unit). I added it to Starbow, but it uses a rather horrible workaround (missiles that shoot missiles that shoot missiles that ...).

Blizzard improved some other aspects in LotV, too, where I had to use weird workarounds in HotS. For example, picking up a Tank in Siege Mode: in HotS, you cannot pick up units that have a max movement speed of 0, in LotV Blizzard fixed that and even added it to the game. So, maybe give the Liberator the Valkyrie's shot instead of having the missiles impact on the unit? I have only shown that it is possible with a lot of workarounds in the "current" engine. But when Blizzard would add it, they would add features to the engine to allow it much, much easier and with a better performance.Technically, my implementation is super hacky but functional, e.g. sometimes Interceptors are outside the carrier, invincible and hidden. That is not something Blizzard would release because they can just alter the engine.Another aspect that is currently not really doable is the Valkyrie's weapon behavior (missile tracking and impacting on a position with a static offset from a moving unit). I added it to Starbow, but it uses a rather horrible workaround (missiles that shoot missiles that shoot missiles that ...).Blizzard improved some other aspects in LotV, too, where I had to use weird workarounds in HotS. For example, picking up a Tank in Siege Mode: in HotS, you cannot pick up units that have a max movement speed of 0, in LotV Blizzard fixed that and even added it to the game. So, maybe give the Liberator the Valkyrie's shot instead of having the missiles impact on the unit? AhliSC2@Twitter. - Get the GameHeart Observer Interface: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=21465380 ... Get Heroes of the Storm Observer UI on my twitter. Try my Arcade map "Dia blo - Mortal Shroud" (buggy atm).

Musicus Profile Joined August 2011 Germany 23392 Posts #19 On July 09 2015 05:03 Ahli wrote:

Show nested quote +

On July 09 2015 04:22 Musicus wrote:

Sick input as always LaLuSh, would be really nice to see this fixed in LotV. I think the chances aren't too bad and the work has basically aready be done by Ahli anyway.

I have only shown that it is possible with a lot of workarounds in the "current" engine. But when Blizzard would add it, they would add features to the engine to allow it much, much easier and with a better performance.



Technically, my implementation is super hacky but functional, e.g. sometimes Interceptors are outside the carrier, invincible and hidden. That is not something Blizzard would release because they can just alter the engine.



Another aspect that is currently not really doable is the Valkyrie's weapon behavior (missile tracking and impacting on a position with a static offset from a moving unit). I added it to Starbow, but it uses a rather horrible workaround (missiles that shoot missiles that shoot missiles that ...).

Blizzard improved some other aspects in LotV, too, where I had to use weird workarounds in HotS. For example, picking up a Tank in Siege Mode: in HotS, you cannot pick up units that have a max movement speed of 0, in LotV Blizzard fixed that and even added it to the game. So, maybe give the Liberator the Valkyrie's shot instead of having the missiles impact on the unit? I have only shown that it is possible with a lot of workarounds in the "current" engine. But when Blizzard would add it, they would add features to the engine to allow it much, much easier and with a better performance.Technically, my implementation is super hacky but functional, e.g. sometimes Interceptors are outside the carrier, invincible and hidden. That is not something Blizzard would release because they can just alter the engine.Another aspect that is currently not really doable is the Valkyrie's weapon behavior (missile tracking and impacting on a position with a static offset from a moving unit). I added it to Starbow, but it uses a rather horrible workaround (missiles that shoot missiles that shoot missiles that ...).Blizzard improved some other aspects in LotV, too, where I had to use weird workarounds in HotS. For example, picking up a Tank in Siege Mode: in HotS, you cannot pick up units that have a max movement speed of 0, in LotV Blizzard fixed that and even added it to the game. So, maybe give the Liberator the Valkyrie's shot instead of having the missiles impact on the unit?



Your Starbow Valkyrie shot looks pretty sick though, I saw it . Your Starbow Valkyrie shot looks pretty sick though, I saw it Maru and Serral are probably top 5.

Finnz Profile Joined September 2011 United Kingdom 260 Posts #20 LaluSh is literally a fricking hero...blizzard snap this guy up already! :D



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