Bloodyrafe Profile Joined March 2015 Australia 264 Posts #1



We are considering to change ONLYthe ESL NA LATE NIGHT SKILLED CUP FOR BOTH B/S/G AND P/D. How we hear you asking well that in part is up to all you sc2 players from Bronze league all the way to Masters.



We aim to change the B/S/G and Plat/ Dia tourney in 2 parts.



1st We are wanting to make the tourney more challenging for our players by changing the B/S/G to Bronze/ Silver/ Gold/ Platinum and from the Plat/ Dia to Diamond/ Masters.



2nd Both myself and Ascarecrow feel that not only in leagues that a change was needed but also a prize of 1 hour coaching for both the B/S/G/P and the Diamond/Masters tourney's would be an awesome thing to have given to the winner of each tourney.

However in order to validate giving coaching as a prize numbers each week for both tourneys needs to be reasonable.



The Poll below will let us no how both myself and Ascarecrow can make these tourneys even better and more enjoyable for you the sc2 players.



Poll: B/S/G and Plat/Dia Late Night Tourneys Changed too?



(Vote): Bronze/Silver/gold/Plat and Dia/ Masters No Prize

(Vote): B/S/G/P and Dia/ Masters/ Grand Masters No Prize

(Vote): B/S/G/P and Dia/Masters with a 1hr Coaching as a Prize to each tourneys winner

(Vote): B/S/G/P and Dia/Master/GM with 1hr Coaching prize each tourney

(Vote): Leave the B/S/G and P/D tourney as is but add a coaching prize to the winner of each tourney

Hi my name is ESL Bloodyrafe and myself with ESL Ascarecrow, are presented with a new opportunity to change the ESL NA Late Night B/S/G and Plat/ Diamond SKILLED CUPS.We are considering to change ONLYthe ESL NA LATE NIGHT SKILLED CUP FOR BOTH B/S/G AND P/D. How we hear you asking well that in part is up to all you sc2 players from Bronze league all the way to Masters.We aim to change the B/S/G and Plat/ Dia tourney in 2 parts.We are wanting to make the tourney more challenging for our players by changing the B/S/G to Bronze/ Silver/ Gold/ Platinum and from the Plat/ Dia to Diamond/ Masters.Both myself and Ascarecrow feel that not only in leagues that a change was needed but also a prize of 1 hour coaching for both the B/S/G/P and the Diamond/Masters tourney's would be an awesome thing to have given to the winner of each tourney. For the Swarm

NasusAndDraven Profile Joined April 2015 358 Posts #2 I think the problem of having coaching as a price is that most people wouldnt want it for free. Really a niche thing

Bloodyrafe Profile Joined March 2015 Australia 264 Posts #3 For lower leagued players having an hour free coaching for winning a tourney like this can be helpful to the winner on so many levels eg: help with timings, build orders, scouting issues and so many more, and for a higher league player it can make the difference between one league to another by refining skills and macro and micro etc. For the Swarm

Bastinian Profile Joined October 2014 Serbia 177 Posts #4 I think generally, it would be good for ESL to make some tournament like Korean Proleague. Tryhard, road to pro-gamer! :) | twitter.com/bastiniansc2 | twitch.tv/bastinian |

sixfour Profile Blog Joined December 2009 England 11021 Posts #5 why separate by leagues, just run it as one big swiss tourney p: stats, horang2, free, jangbi z: soulkey, zero, shine, hydra t: leta, hiya, sea

PowerOfOne Profile Joined February 2013 Peru 78 Posts #6 Thank you for being open about the changes, guys, changing it to the format you suggest B/S/G/P and D/M will make the tournaments more challenging for the players as well as affect the player base. B/S/G/P may increase in numbers while I am not that sure about D/M if it'll increase or stay as it is. Coaching seems very tempting for lower league players, but it would have to be very good coaching maybe announcing the coach beforehand would make it exciting to have as a prize.

MoosyDoosy Profile Joined November 2014 United States 4519 Posts Last Edited: 2015-05-20 14:32:46 #7 On May 20 2015 22:17 sixfour wrote:

why separate by leagues, just run it as one big swiss tourney

Then metal leagues won't benefit from coaching as much as I doubt they'd win. Then metal leagues won't benefit from coaching as much as I doubt they'd win. "Just a second too late rsoultin :D" - My 4k Guardian post

jinorazi Profile Joined October 2004 Korea (South) 4933 Posts #8 Jus wondering, if a player is competitive enough to play in tournament and interested in learning, why is that player still in bronze, silver, gold, pt? age: 84 | location: california | sex: 잘함

NasusAndDraven Profile Joined April 2015 358 Posts #9 On May 21 2015 00:48 jinorazi wrote:

Jus wondering, if a player is competitive enough to play in tournament and interested in learning, why is that player still in bronze, silver, gold, pt?

RTS is a genre that most people just cannot learn. Being good is more to do with genes than practice. Some people get dia level in 50 games, some people are bronze after 2000 games. Only in the higher levels do you need both talent and practice. RTS is a genre that most people just cannot learn. Being good is more to do with genes than practice. Some people get dia level in 50 games, some people are bronze after 2000 games. Only in the higher levels do you need both talent and practice.

JulDraGoN Profile Blog Joined September 2004 Sweden 368 Posts Last Edited: 2015-05-20 16:58:12 #10 On May 21 2015 01:00 NasusAndDraven wrote:

Show nested quote +

On May 21 2015 00:48 jinorazi wrote:

Jus wondering, if a player is competitive enough to play in tournament and interested in learning, why is that player still in bronze, silver, gold, pt?

RTS is a genre that most people just cannot learn. Being good is more to do with genes than practice. Some people get dia level in 50 games, some people are bronze after 2000 games. Only in the higher levels do you need both talent and practice. RTS is a genre that most people just cannot learn. Being good is more to do with genes than practice. Some people get dia level in 50 games, some people are bronze after 2000 games. Only in the higher levels do you need both talent and practice.

I don't think I have ever disagreed with someone as much as I am disagreeing with Being good is more to do with genes than practice.



You don't need talent to reach master, you just need to practice and practice the right things.

Most people I've come across that are stuck in a lower league is stuck because they aren't practicing enough. Just playing the game on auto-pilot and having fun. This is all good, but it is not practice.



Sitting down and focusing, analyzing your play after your losses, learning from your mistakes, perfecting your build orders and timings and constantly striving to improve. Playing outside of your comfort zone, trying to play faster than you are normally able to when you are in "cruise mode", now that's practicing!

It has nothing to do with genes.





Sorry about that, back to topic

I for one would love a tournament where everyone is mashed together, from bronze to GM.

But you figure out a way to even out the battlefield a little by adding some kind of fun handicap.



It always seems like every time you put a league restriction on a tournament this one guy always shows up. You know the guy, the one who is just way too good for everyone else. I don't think I have ever disagreed with someone as much as I am disagreeing withYou don't need talent to reach master, you just need to practice and practice thethings.Most people I've come across that are stuck in a lower league is stuck because they aren't practicing enough. Just playing the game on auto-pilot and having fun. This is all good, but it is not practice.Sitting down and focusing, analyzing your play after your losses, learning from your mistakes, perfecting your build orders and timings and constantly striving to improve. Playing outside of your comfort zone, trying to play faster than you are normally able to when you are in "cruise mode", now that's practicing!It has nothing to do with genes.Sorry about that, back to topicI for one would love a tournament where everyone is mashed together, from bronze to GM.But you figure out a way to even out the battlefield a little by adding some kind of fun handicap.It always seems like every time you put a league restriction on a tournament this one guy always shows up. You know the guy, the one who is just way too good for everyone else. I mean nobody wants to admit they eat 9 cans of ravioli, but I did and I'm ashamed of myself. The first can doesn't count and then you get to the second, and the third. The fourth and fifth I think I burnt with the blow torch and I just kept eating.

naughtymiami8 Profile Joined May 2015 1 Post Last Edited: 2015-05-20 18:05:37 #11



User was banned for this post. Bot edit.

sixfour Profile Blog Joined December 2009 England 11021 Posts #12 On May 20 2015 23:32 MoosyDoosy wrote:

Show nested quote +

On May 20 2015 22:17 sixfour wrote:

why separate by leagues, just run it as one big swiss tourney

Then metal leagues won't benefit from coaching as much as I doubt they'd win. Then metal leagues won't benefit from coaching as much as I doubt they'd win.



you give it to whoever has the best record from gold and below, exactly how such prizes have worked in chess for decades you give it to whoever has the best record from gold and below, exactly how such prizes have worked in chess for decades p: stats, horang2, free, jangbi z: soulkey, zero, shine, hydra t: leta, hiya, sea

DARKING Profile Blog Joined September 2011 Mexico 646 Posts #13 I don't think chanching the tournaments is a good idea. Adding coaching as a prize is cool, but not the making it more challenging. Once you start adding platinums to the BSG, and masters to the diamonds you're not making it more challenging, you're making it near impossible. The skill level difference becomes too high for most of the players. I would prefer to leave them as they are. If you want to add Master and GM players, then just make a 3rd one open to all skill levels. Liquipedia Mexican Liquipedia staff and Terran player. I tweet things @DARKING665.

swag_bro Profile Blog Joined July 2014 Japan 782 Posts #14 Make it so players who used to be in plat or above and are now bronze can enter the tournament no questions asked. They hate us 'cause they ain't us.

CrAftOfStArs Profile Joined May 2015 1 Post #15 I really feel that it is a good layout as it. Bronze/Silver/Gold and Platinum/Diamond. If you are masters then it is unlikely that you are playing these tournaments, as you would be playing cash prize tournaments. If you are to change the grouping then I feel that 3 groups would be the best. Bronze/Silver, Gold/Platinum, and Diamond/Masters. I personally would love for a free hour of coaching to go to the winner of all tournament winners. I just got bumped up to diamond and I would play more tournaments, more seriously if there was an hour of coaching awarded to the winner. I also think that some amateur cash tournaments would be fun, something like once a month $5 entry fee with top 3 player payout or something like that.



-I love that you are actively trying to improve the tournament's for amateur players. I love this game just like many others and want more tournaments for us. I just wish that more people were more active in the amateur tournament scene.



Thank you!

A_Scarecrow Profile Joined March 2013 Australia 721 Posts #16 On May 21 2015 05:09 DARKING wrote:

I don't think chanching the tournaments is a good idea. Adding coaching as a prize is cool, but not the making it more challenging. Once you start adding platinums to the BSG, and masters to the diamonds you're not making it more challenging, you're making it near impossible. The skill level difference becomes too high for most of the players. I would prefer to leave them as they are. If you want to add Master and GM players, then just make a 3rd one open to all skill levels.

problem atm is that the difference between masters and diamond is very small this season so adding them would maybe boost the numbers but we arent sure if it would make it " nearly" impossible. problem atm is that the difference between masters and diamond is very small this season so adding them would maybe boost the numbers but we arent sure if it would make it " nearly" impossible.

A_Scarecrow Profile Joined March 2013 Australia 721 Posts #17 On May 21 2015 01:56 JulDraGoN wrote:

Show nested quote +

On May 21 2015 01:00 NasusAndDraven wrote:

On May 21 2015 00:48 jinorazi wrote:

Jus wondering, if a player is competitive enough to play in tournament and interested in learning, why is that player still in bronze, silver, gold, pt?

RTS is a genre that most people just cannot learn. Being good is more to do with genes than practice. Some people get dia level in 50 games, some people are bronze after 2000 games. Only in the higher levels do you need both talent and practice. RTS is a genre that most people just cannot learn. Being good is more to do with genes than practice. Some people get dia level in 50 games, some people are bronze after 2000 games. Only in the higher levels do you need both talent and practice.

I don't think I have ever disagreed with someone as much as I am disagreeing with Being good is more to do with genes than practice.





Sorry about that, back to topic

I for one would love a tournament where everyone is mashed together, from bronze to GM.

But you figure out a way to even out the battlefield a little by adding some kind of fun handicap.



It always seems like every time you put a league restriction on a tournament this one guy always shows up. You know the guy, the one who is just way too good for everyone else. I don't think I have ever disagreed with someone as much as I am disagreeing withSorry about that, back to topicI for one would love a tournament where everyone is mashed together, from bronze to GM.But you figure out a way to even out the battlefield a little by adding some kind of fun handicap.It always seems like every time you put a league restriction on a tournament this one guy always shows up. You know the guy, the one who is just way too good for everyone else.

we already have an we already have an open cup so adding another wouldnt do much in my opinion. maybe its something we could look into but we want to make it fair as possible for lower league players.

Pirfiktshon Profile Joined June 2013 United States 1072 Posts #18 problem with having a coaching session with GM's involved is that GM's dont need coaching and they would always win the Dia / Masters / GM. So that model would only benefit plat players.....

CakeSauc3 Profile Joined February 2011 United States 1417 Posts Last Edited: 2015-05-20 22:01:24 #19 On May 21 2015 01:56 JulDraGoN wrote:

Show nested quote +

On May 21 2015 01:00 NasusAndDraven wrote:

On May 21 2015 00:48 jinorazi wrote:

Jus wondering, if a player is competitive enough to play in tournament and interested in learning, why is that player still in bronze, silver, gold, pt?

RTS is a genre that most people just cannot learn. Being good is more to do with genes than practice. Some people get dia level in 50 games, some people are bronze after 2000 games. Only in the higher levels do you need both talent and practice. RTS is a genre that most people just cannot learn. Being good is more to do with genes than practice. Some people get dia level in 50 games, some people are bronze after 2000 games. Only in the higher levels do you need both talent and practice.

I don't think I have ever disagreed with someone as much as I am disagreeing with Being good is more to do with genes than practice.



You don't need talent to reach master, you just need to practice and practice the right things.

Most people I've come across that are stuck in a lower league is stuck because they aren't practicing enough. Just playing the game on auto-pilot and having fun. This is all good, but it is not practice.



Sitting down and focusing, analyzing your play after your losses, learning from your mistakes, perfecting your build orders and timings and constantly striving to improve. Playing outside of your comfort zone, trying to play faster than you are normally able to when you are in "cruise mode", now that's practicing!

It has nothing to do with genes.





Sorry about that, back to topic

I for one would love a tournament where everyone is mashed together, from bronze to GM.

But you figure out a way to even out the battlefield a little by adding some kind of fun handicap.



It always seems like every time you put a league restriction on a tournament this one guy always shows up. You know the guy, the one who is just way too good for everyone else. I don't think I have ever disagreed with someone as much as I am disagreeing withYou don't need talent to reach master, you just need to practice and practice thethings.Most people I've come across that are stuck in a lower league is stuck because they aren't practicing enough. Just playing the game on auto-pilot and having fun. This is all good, but it is not practice.Sitting down and focusing, analyzing your play after your losses, learning from your mistakes, perfecting your build orders and timings and constantly striving to improve. Playing outside of your comfort zone, trying to play faster than you are normally able to when you are in "cruise mode", now that's practicing!It has nothing to do with genes.Sorry about that, back to topicI for one would love a tournament where everyone is mashed together, from bronze to GM.But you figure out a way to even out the battlefield a little by adding some kind of fun handicap.It always seems like every time you put a league restriction on a tournament this one guy always shows up. You know the guy, the one who is just way too good for everyone else.



I can't remember what the show was called, but it was where they would take GSL players and have them play random ladder players with crazy handicaps. Marineking played with oven mittens on, I think MC played while blowing up balloons, someone else played but had to eat a bowl of ramen noodles by the end of the game, another player had 50% hp on all units... that was an awesome show.



I wish they would do tournaments this way, would make it more fun. I can't remember what the show was called, but it was where they would take GSL players and have them play random ladder players with crazy handicaps. Marineking played with oven mittens on, I think MC played while blowing up balloons, someone else played but had to eat a bowl of ramen noodles by the end of the game, another player had 50% hp on all units... that was an awesome show.I wish they would do tournaments this way, would make it more fun. sOs sOs sOs sOs sOs sOs

intotheheart Profile Blog Joined January 2011 Canada 16855 Posts #20 On May 21 2015 07:01 CakeSauc3 wrote:

Show nested quote +

On May 21 2015 01:56 JulDraGoN wrote:

On May 21 2015 01:00 NasusAndDraven wrote:

On May 21 2015 00:48 jinorazi wrote:

Jus wondering, if a player is competitive enough to play in tournament and interested in learning, why is that player still in bronze, silver, gold, pt?

RTS is a genre that most people just cannot learn. Being good is more to do with genes than practice. Some people get dia level in 50 games, some people are bronze after 2000 games. Only in the higher levels do you need both talent and practice. RTS is a genre that most people just cannot learn. Being good is more to do with genes than practice. Some people get dia level in 50 games, some people are bronze after 2000 games. Only in the higher levels do you need both talent and practice.

I don't think I have ever disagreed with someone as much as I am disagreeing with Being good is more to do with genes than practice.



You don't need talent to reach master, you just need to practice and practice the right things.

Most people I've come across that are stuck in a lower league is stuck because they aren't practicing enough. Just playing the game on auto-pilot and having fun. This is all good, but it is not practice.



Sitting down and focusing, analyzing your play after your losses, learning from your mistakes, perfecting your build orders and timings and constantly striving to improve. Playing outside of your comfort zone, trying to play faster than you are normally able to when you are in "cruise mode", now that's practicing!

It has nothing to do with genes.





Sorry about that, back to topic

I for one would love a tournament where everyone is mashed together, from bronze to GM.

But you figure out a way to even out the battlefield a little by adding some kind of fun handicap.



It always seems like every time you put a league restriction on a tournament this one guy always shows up. You know the guy, the one who is just way too good for everyone else. I don't think I have ever disagreed with someone as much as I am disagreeing withYou don't need talent to reach master, you just need to practice and practice thethings.Most people I've come across that are stuck in a lower league is stuck because they aren't practicing enough. Just playing the game on auto-pilot and having fun. This is all good, but it is not practice.Sitting down and focusing, analyzing your play after your losses, learning from your mistakes, perfecting your build orders and timings and constantly striving to improve. Playing outside of your comfort zone, trying to play faster than you are normally able to when you are in "cruise mode", now that's practicing!It has nothing to do with genes.Sorry about that, back to topicI for one would love a tournament where everyone is mashed together, from bronze to GM.But you figure out a way to even out the battlefield a little by adding some kind of fun handicap.It always seems like every time you put a league restriction on a tournament this one guy always shows up. You know the guy, the one who is just way too good for everyone else.



I can't remember what the show was called, but it was where they would take GSL players and have them play random ladder players with crazy handicaps. Marineking played with oven mittens on, I think MC played while blowing up balloons, someone else played but had to eat a bowl of ramen noodles by the end of the game, another player had 50% hp on all units... that was an awesome show.



I wish they would do tournaments this way, would make it more fun. I can't remember what the show was called, but it was where they would take GSL players and have them play random ladder players with crazy handicaps. Marineking played with oven mittens on, I think MC played while blowing up balloons, someone else played but had to eat a bowl of ramen noodles by the end of the game, another player had 50% hp on all units... that was an awesome show.I wish they would do tournaments this way, would make it more fun.

I think that TL had something similar called "TL Attack." You can look up VODs of it on Youtube. I can't say for sure why there haven't been any new episodes in years though. I think that TL had something similar called "TL Attack." You can look up VODs of it on Youtube. I can't say for sure why there haven't been any new episodes in years though. kiss kiss fall in love

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