Diddywhop Profile Joined March 2013 United States 42 Posts Last Edited: 2013-05-07 16:12:46 #1 You can start this discussion based on one fact. Love em' or hate em', team EG has the right idea when it comes to the atmosphere of a professional team. Their ideology can be applied to any sport or hobby that generates income based on marketing. They take the most sought after individuals in a community and stamp a brand on them that raises their value, even after the fact.



As a person who has followed the eSports scene for over a decade now. I can't help but think the rise of Evil Geniuses is exactly what this community needs. Don't get me wrong, Evil Geniuses has always been a force in the North American esports scene. But, it was never quite as marketable and dominant as it is in the SC2 scene now. Earlier memories of EG are their CS team that always stood in the shadow of other foreign teams like Complexity and 3D.



How is it different now than it was then? The only thing that would make sense is the obvious thing in business. They made the right decisions at the right time. Number one on that list was picking up Greg 'IdrA' Fields early on. Greg was an enormous personality (still is) early on in the game. Whether it be from his results at MLG or from his character that seemed to attract lovers and haters alike. He is big. People like to watch Greg because he was a top contender in the scene at the time. On top of it all, they never knew what they were going to get from him. Lets face it, a vast majority of people follow Greg and its not always to see him win.



Pair good business decisions with great timing and it seemed like the evolution of Team EG was bound for success. They have an organization that could essentially never net a single result and still command a larger following of fans than most (if not all) Korean and foreign teams. I understand Korea and their fans are the father of this scene. But, what has it done for foreigners so far? Brood War had a foreign scene, no where near as massive as the Korean scene. What did it do for eSports globally? Looking back in the scope of things, not much. You could argue that without the Korean Brood War scene, none of this would be possible. Those people would be 100% correct. But, that doesn't subdue the fact that the numbers dwindled in the foreign scene; Different cultures, different interests- fair enough. But, we NEED foreign teams like EG to expand our scene.



But, what do we want as fans? The stage has been set for a surge in this industry that we haven't seen before (Twitch.tv, smart televsions, generations growing up playing video games). We have more odds stacked in our favor now than we ever have. The idea of watching a pro gamer isn't exactly as taboo as it used to be. Blizzard getting involved may of screwed things up with tournament structures right now. However, that doesn't change the fact that these cooperate giants in the game industry are starting to support the idea of eSports a bit more actively, which is absolutely paramount for its success. Soon television programming may not be the goal, since getting a spot on TV may be unrealistic. The evolution of technology seems to be heading in the direction of internet based television. The marketing is the same and its going to be cheaper and more readily available to eSports based on the age of a growing technology, while being able to cover the demographic that has the most interest and easiest access. As a whole, whether it be through LoL or SC2 views on twitch.tv are on a significant rise.



We could literally be on the cusp of a paradigm change. That still doesn't make the future of eSports even remotely close to a guaranteed success. We still need to have those teams who can be marketable. In the end, this can't just be about players watching professionals. There needs to be attraction to the scene based on players and teams. There needs to be that same structure we see in successful entertainment now. It may be enough for us that people are playing SC2, but will it be enough for the person who hasn't?



This is where a team like Evil Geniuses excels. They are the definition of marketable. They may not have the quality of player, as a whole, that you see on Korean teams (there are exceptions). What do they have the most of though? Players you WANT to watch. You may want to see them win, you may want to see them fail. But, you want to see them. Thats the difference between Evil Geniuses and any Korean team. Koreans draw you in with their skill, EG draws you in with their personalities. A person observing this community can't help but notice EG understands the same thing, which is the bigger picture.They have the means to contract the biggest personalities and they do so. The charisma of their players shine through any performance, or lack there of.



For eSports to break those barriers, we need more personalities and teams like EG. We need to catch that 'WWF' persona, in a sense. You don't always watch it for the action. You watch it to see whats going to happen next. Could you imagine another team with the resources and pool of personality EG has in eSports? It could only stand to attract those viewers who've never seen SC2 before. Hell, it could even spawn a realty television series.



In the end, its pretty obvious. The TL community will watch SC2 to see players who are great at the game. But, those aren't the only people we need to consider. As a whole, we need to attract those viewers who wouldn't typically just turn on a SC2 tournament.



I'd love to hear your thoughts on how I'm an idiot or how you agree!



qotsager Profile Joined March 2012 Germany 470 Posts #2 i'm not really sure what kind of discussion you hope to start with this. a pro/contra EG thread?

or just a general justification and defense of EG and what they do? ***Official ABL Winner 2013***

Diddywhop Profile Joined March 2013 United States 42 Posts #3 On May 08 2013 01:16 qotsager wrote:

i'm not really sure what kind of discussion you hope to start with this. a pro/contra EG thread?

or just a general justification and defense of EG and what they do?



I'd love to hear your thoughts on how I'm an idiot or how you agree! I'd love to hear your thoughts on how I'm an idiot or how you agree!

Mortal Profile Blog Joined November 2010 2941 Posts Last Edited: 2013-05-07 16:21:03 #4



Don't think I need read further than the first line. EG has the right idea when it comes to the atmosphere of a professional team.



In one sense, you're correct. However, in the context of the fact that they're trying to compete in this game, you're 100% wrong. EG had favored content production and selling their players/themselves as a brand. If you're looking to generate income based upon sponsorships and such, this is a fine model. But what would someone say if the Yankees were losing every game, but still had a sick roster and sponsors? They'd probably say it didn't add up. I say "had favored" because as we know, EG moves now to San Fransisco to -allegedly- focus themselves more on practice and raising the skill of their players. Unfortunately, I expect similar results to that which the Lair in AZ produced, which was none at all in the scheme of things.



I wish EG the best and I truly hope this SF move refocuses their players and resources to push their results forward; but as of now, they're a marketable brand, not a championship team.



Also, this thread is going to be terrible and turn into a shit-flinging contest. Don't expect it to stick around for too long. In one sense, you're correct. However, in the context of the fact that they're trying toin this game, you're 100% wrong. EG had favored content production and selling their players/themselves as a brand. If you're looking to generate income based upon sponsorships and such, this is a fine model. But what would someone say if the Yankees were losing every game, but still had a sick roster and sponsors? They'd probably say it didn't add up. I say "had favored" because as we know, EG moves now to San Fransisco to -allegedly- focus themselves more on practice and raising the skill of their players. Unfortunately, I expect similar results to that which the Lair in AZ produced, which was none at all in the scheme of things.I wish EG the best and I truly hope this SF move refocuses their players and resources to push their results forward; but as of now, they're a marketable brand, not a championship team.Also, this thread is going to be terrible and turn into a shit-flinging contest. Don't expect it to stick around for too long. The universe created an audience for itself.

DiMano Profile Joined July 2011 Korea (South) 2010 Posts Last Edited: 2013-05-07 16:19:56 #5 I do not like teams that buy the best players from other teams to artificially become the best. EG has killed TSL and I hate them for this so much.

Plansix Profile Blog Joined April 2011 United States 15207 Posts #6 The OP seems a bit directionless. I can't really get a grip on what the topic of discussion is. Blogs? I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6

MstrJinbo Profile Joined March 2011 United States 1249 Posts #7 On May 08 2013 01:19 Diddywhop wrote:

Show nested quote +

On May 08 2013 01:16 qotsager wrote:

i'm not really sure what kind of discussion you hope to start with this. a pro/contra EG thread?

or just a general justification and defense of EG and what they do?



I'd love to hear your thoughts on how I'm an idiot or how you agree! I'd love to hear your thoughts on how I'm an idiot or how you agree!



Why the hell would we want to do that? You are just inviting a pro vs anti-EG war by leaving a directionless post. Your post should have a point of discussion behind it, not just leave it open for people to write their opinions on EG. Why the hell would we want to do that? You are just inviting a pro vs anti-EG war by leaving a directionless post. Your post should have a point of discussion behind it, not just leave it open for people to write their opinions on EG.

Diddywhop Profile Joined March 2013 United States 42 Posts #8 On May 08 2013 01:24 MstrJinbo wrote:

Show nested quote +

On May 08 2013 01:19 Diddywhop wrote:

On May 08 2013 01:16 qotsager wrote:

i'm not really sure what kind of discussion you hope to start with this. a pro/contra EG thread?

or just a general justification and defense of EG and what they do?



I'd love to hear your thoughts on how I'm an idiot or how you agree! I'd love to hear your thoughts on how I'm an idiot or how you agree!



Why the hell would we want to do that? You are just inviting a pro vs anti-EG war by leaving a directionless post. Your post should have a point of discussion behind it, not just leave it open for people to write their opinions on EG. Why the hell would we want to do that? You are just inviting a pro vs anti-EG war by leaving a directionless post. Your post should have a point of discussion behind it, not just leave it open for people to write their opinions on EG.



I'm sorry if you can't understand the discussion behind the post. You don't need to reply anymore. I'm sorry if you can't understand the discussion behind the post. You don't need to reply anymore.

vpatrickd Profile Joined November 2010 Indonesia 195 Posts #9 I agree wholeheartedly.

For people's convenience, TLDR:

EG is not a skilled team, but it's a great business.



In any business, it's never about the product anyway (in this case: players' skills)

It's about how you market the product, the image, the brand, the publicity..



Good food ain't gonna sell if people don't know about your restaurant.

Mortal Profile Blog Joined November 2010 2941 Posts #10 On May 08 2013 01:25 Diddywhop wrote:

Show nested quote +

On May 08 2013 01:24 MstrJinbo wrote:

On May 08 2013 01:19 Diddywhop wrote:

On May 08 2013 01:16 qotsager wrote:

i'm not really sure what kind of discussion you hope to start with this. a pro/contra EG thread?

or just a general justification and defense of EG and what they do?



I'd love to hear your thoughts on how I'm an idiot or how you agree! I'd love to hear your thoughts on how I'm an idiot or how you agree!



Why the hell would we want to do that? You are just inviting a pro vs anti-EG war by leaving a directionless post. Your post should have a point of discussion behind it, not just leave it open for people to write their opinions on EG. Why the hell would we want to do that? You are just inviting a pro vs anti-EG war by leaving a directionless post. Your post should have a point of discussion behind it, not just leave it open for people to write their opinions on EG.



I'm sorry if you can't understand the discussion behind the post. You don't need to reply anymore. I'm sorry if you can't understand the discussion behind the post. You don't need to reply anymore.

Spare the forums your ignorance. There's clearly absolutely no topic up for discussion, just a dick-measuring contest between EG fans and haters. That's not a discussion anyone should care enough to have. You don't need to post anymore. Spare the forums your ignorance. There's clearly absolutely no topic up for discussion, just a dick-measuring contest between EG fans and haters. That's not a discussion anyone should care enough to have. You don't need to post anymore. The universe created an audience for itself.

Diddywhop Profile Joined March 2013 United States 42 Posts Last Edited: 2013-05-07 16:29:39 #11 On May 08 2013 01:27 Mortal wrote:

Show nested quote +

On May 08 2013 01:25 Diddywhop wrote:

On May 08 2013 01:24 MstrJinbo wrote:

On May 08 2013 01:19 Diddywhop wrote:

On May 08 2013 01:16 qotsager wrote:

i'm not really sure what kind of discussion you hope to start with this. a pro/contra EG thread?

or just a general justification and defense of EG and what they do?



I'd love to hear your thoughts on how I'm an idiot or how you agree! I'd love to hear your thoughts on how I'm an idiot or how you agree!



Why the hell would we want to do that? You are just inviting a pro vs anti-EG war by leaving a directionless post. Your post should have a point of discussion behind it, not just leave it open for people to write their opinions on EG. Why the hell would we want to do that? You are just inviting a pro vs anti-EG war by leaving a directionless post. Your post should have a point of discussion behind it, not just leave it open for people to write their opinions on EG.



I'm sorry if you can't understand the discussion behind the post. You don't need to reply anymore. I'm sorry if you can't understand the discussion behind the post. You don't need to reply anymore.

Spare the forums your ignorance. There's clearly absolutely no topic up for discussion, just a dick-measuring contest between EG fans and haters. That's not a discussion anyone should care enough to have. You don't need to post anymore. Spare the forums your ignorance. There's clearly absolutely no topic up for discussion, just a dick-measuring contest between EG fans and haters. That's not a discussion anyone should care enough to have. You don't need to post anymore.



I'm a bit confused. If its not a discussion you want to have, then why'd you reply intelligently to it?



Thanks for the reply, none the less. I'm a bit confused. If its not a discussion you want to have, then why'd you reply intelligently to it?Thanks for the reply, none the less.

radscorpion9 Profile Blog Joined March 2011 Canada 2244 Posts Last Edited: 2013-05-07 16:36:29 #12 I think you're definitely right in that charisma plays a big role. Whenever Idra plays you have as many as ten thousand people watching his stream (if I recall correctly), even if he isn't necessarily as successful these days as he used to be.



But I think we should ensure that it remains a secondary focus, not the primary one. Because if people are watching players like Idra or Destiny just because of their colorful personalities, then the business model of esports isn't about the game anymore and just becomes a bit of a joke, in that people will just watch for moments of rage or witty commentary, or because a person is generally funny. At that point it has nothing to do with esports, its just about watching funny people play a game (the game doesn't matter).



For example that's actually the primary reason I watch day9, particularly on fridays or mondays. Most of the time I find sc2 games lackluster and boring because they follow a very standardized pattern of gameplay, but his commentary is hilarious, and I love all of his personal stories.



I think it also extends to casters; lots of people love watching incontrol and think he's a funny guy, but we should try to keep in mind that your knowledge about the game comes first, comedy second. Otherwise its just bizarre in that you are watching a comedy routine in a totally wrong setting.



Edit: Also I'm not even sure if the people above me read your post. He's asking whether we need more charsimatic, WWE type personalities in the game in order to make esports more popular. Stop with the insults, just read the final two paragraphs. That basically summarizes it. This is absolutely not a "dick measuring contest" between EG fans and haters, I have no idea how you draw that conclusion!

Dingodile Profile Joined December 2011 4035 Posts #13 Yeah, EG prefers player with big personality and big fanbase :D

From this perspective, they made a big mistake: Not able to renew the contract with Grubby (he was there from 2008 - march2011). Grubby | ToD | Moon | Lyn | Sky

Diddywhop Profile Joined March 2013 United States 42 Posts #14 On May 08 2013 01:31 radscorpion9 wrote:

I think you're definitely right in that charisma plays a big role. Whenever Idra plays you have as many as ten thousand people watching his stream (if I recall correctly), even if he isn't necessarily as successful these days as he used to be.



But I think we should ensure that it remains a secondary focus, not the primary one. Because if people are watching players like Idra or Destiny just because of their colorful personalities, then the business model of esports isn't about the game anymore and just becomes a bit of a joke, in that people will just watch for moments of rage or witty commentary, or because a person is generally funny. At that point it has nothing to do with esports, its just about watching funny people play a game (the game doesn't matter).



For example that's actually the primary reason I watch day9, particularly on fridays or mondays. Most of the time I find sc2 games lackluster and boring because they follow a very standardized pattern of gameplay, but his commentary is hilarious, and I love all of his personal stories.



I think it also extends to casters; lots of people love watching incontrol and think he's a funny guy, but we should try to keep in mind that your knowledge about the game comes first, comedy second. Otherwise its just bizarre in that you are watching a comedy routine in a totally wrong setting.



Edit: Also I'm not even sure if the people above me read your post. He's asking whether we need more charsimatic, WWE type personalities in the game in order to make esports more popular. Stop with the insults, just read the final two paragraphs. That basically summarizes it.



Its a pretty good point. I think it should remain secondary. I just sit back and watch these tournaments sometimes and think about the outlets that are available for random people to watch them now. You can't help but ask yourself if what we have now in eSports is enough to sustain a large following. I'm not talking about competing with major sports. Just something more, expanding the horizons of the scene.



The only thing I could think of is by adding more personalty to the scene. It seems like EG understands what its going to take for the scene to evolve past where its at right now. Its a pretty good point. I think it should remain secondary. I just sit back and watch these tournaments sometimes and think about the outlets that are available for random people to watch them now. You can't help but ask yourself if what we have now in eSports is enough to sustain a large following. I'm not talking about competing with major sports. Just something more, expanding the horizons of the scene.The only thing I could think of is by adding more personalty to the scene. It seems like EG understands what its going to take for the scene to evolve past where its at right now.

Defacer Profile Blog Joined October 2010 Canada 5051 Posts #15 On May 08 2013 01:19 DiMano wrote:

I do not like teams that buy the best players from other teams to artificially become the best. EG has killed TSL and I hate them for this so much.



TSL killed TSL by having great players but not taking proper care of them. EG rescued their players from obscurity and evitable failure by offering better, living wages.



When are esports fans going to get it? Offering players a living wage is not 'a bonus' for having a competitive and sustainable team. IT'S THE PREREQUISITE.



TSL killed TSL by having great players but not taking proper care of them. EG rescued their players from obscurity and evitable failure by offering better, living wages.When are esports fans going to get it? Offering players a living wage is not 'a bonus' for having a competitive and sustainable team. IT'S THE PREREQUISITE.

graNite Profile Blog Joined December 2010 Germany 4412 Posts #16 the sad thing is that they make money by holding monster cans in the camera, not by playing well.

companies jsut want to get exposure, thats why they hire "teams" like this one because they get a lot of attention, not because they play well.

and then the sponsors say that they support esports :D "Oink oink, bitches" - Tasteless on Pigbaby winning a map against Flash

figq Profile Blog Joined May 2010 11851 Posts Last Edited: 2013-05-07 16:52:49 #17 I wish EG was a great team, indeed, but in reality it tends to be more the team of have-beens rather than the team of are-nows.

But I agree with your main argument, yes, entertaining teams are very useful to bring new people to esports. For example, MC is a player that I've personally seen to catch the eye of viewers who've never seen SC2 before. We need more fellows like him. If you stand next to my head, you can hear the ocean. - Day[9]

HeeroFX Profile Blog Joined November 2010 United States 2619 Posts #18



+ Show Spoiler +

Not sure what the threads point is to be honest. But attempted to give some of my thoughts on EG. EG is a well ran machine, of course they can improve in some areas, like all teams. My biggest complaint about EG, is they are very much like the Dallas Cowboys, or the New York Yankees. Both organizations are great. But both buy top tier talent instead of foster to grow it. But with that kind of talent they lack results once they sign to EG. Suppy is the exception, and frankly suppy may be one of the top 3 foreigner players on the team right now. EG is also very good at player exposure, and sponsor exposure. Lets take idra for example. Right now the guy is not a great player. But he is valuable because he draws viewers in and those viewers see the ads for the sponsors of EG. EG management seems to be more focused on exposing sponsors, before player results. Yes they did hire Park and beef up the Korea team. And add a great LoL team. But all of these moves do lead to greater sponsor exposure.

vpatrickd Profile Joined November 2010 Indonesia 195 Posts #19 On May 08 2013 01:31 radscorpion9 wrote:

I think you're definitely right in that charisma plays a big role. Whenever Idra plays you have as many as ten thousand people watching his stream (if I recall correctly), even if he isn't necessarily as successful these days as he used to be.



But I think we should ensure that it remains a secondary focus, not the primary one. Because if people are watching players like Idra or Destiny just because of their colorful personalities, then the business model of esports isn't about the game anymore and just becomes a bit of a joke, in that people will just watch for moments of rage or witty commentary, or because a person is generally funny. At that point it has nothing to do with esports, its just about watching funny people play a game (the game doesn't matter).



For example that's actually the primary reason I watch day9, particularly on fridays or mondays. Most of the time I find sc2 games lackluster and boring because they follow a very standardized pattern of gameplay, but his commentary is hilarious, and I love all of his personal stories.



I think it also extends to casters; lots of people love watching incontrol and think he's a funny guy, but we should try to keep in mind that your knowledge about the game comes first, comedy second. Otherwise its just bizarre in that you are watching a comedy routine in a totally wrong setting.



Edit: Also I'm not even sure if the people above me read your post. He's asking whether we need more charsimatic, WWE type personalities in the game in order to make esports more popular. Stop with the insults, just read the final two paragraphs. That basically summarizes it. This is absolutely not a "dick measuring contest" between EG fans and haters, I have no idea how you draw that conclusion!

Fair, but I'm pretty sure EG's a business

and when a team is a business, its primary focus won't be to win and be the best. Sure it'll be one of their goals, but then if you're the best player in the world but no one knows about u, how is it gonna make u money?



It's better to have a lesser product with a wider audience than a better product with very few audience. EG already has a very wide following, now if they can 'better' their skills and actually become one of the top teams, then their popularity would skyrocket.



Example: Dendi from Navi (Dota 2) - Likes to joke around, trolls people, dances, dorky, but considered by many as the best player..



Let's be real. People watch people because of their personality. If you're a fuckin genius, but your personality sucks, who'd like u? No one.. Fair, but I'm pretty sure EG's a businessand when a team is a business, its primary focus won't be to win and be the best. Sure it'll be one of their goals, but then if you're the best player in the world but no one knows about u, how is it gonna make u money?It's better to have a lesser product with a wider audience than a better product with very few audience. EG already has a very wide following, now if they can 'better' their skills and actually become one of the top teams, then their popularity would skyrocket.Example: Dendi from Navi (Dota 2) - Likes to joke around, trolls people, dances, dorky, but considered by many as the best player..Let's be real. People watch people because of their personality. If you're a fuckin genius, but your personality sucks, who'd like u? No one..

m4inbrain Profile Joined November 2011 1491 Posts #20 Oh boy, this thread's gonna end well, i'm sure about that.



To add to the "discussion", i like EG because they have outstanding players like Demuslim, inControl, Idra and Machine. Not outstanding because of the results, but because of their character.



.. what exactly was the discussion again?

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