AliceWonderMiscreations



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Full MemberActivity: 182Merit: 100 Control the Flow, Control the Power March 08, 2017, 07:54:28 PM #1 One of the things that attracted me to bitcoin - with credit cards, the flow of money belongs to the the wealthy and that gave them power.



With bitcoin, the flow of value was returned to the people.



I didn't have to meet the rules of a bank to open a merchant account. I didn't have to keep meeting the rules of the bank or worry about my account being closed. I didn't have to keep giving a piece of every sale to a bank. A financial institution no longer controlled the flow of money.



Now what I see happening with bitcoin, a group of people (blockstream) is trying to take over the flow of value. They are doing this by keeping the block too small for normal transactions to succeed without their SegWit solution that they control, good luck running your own SegWit solution if you are not wealthy, so people like you and me will be forced to use their off-chain accounting that they control in order to use Bitcoin.



The vision of Satoshi returned power over the flow of value back to the people where it belongs. Ordinary people, extraordinary people. Rich people, poor people. Dumb people, smart people. Conservative, liberal, socialist, libertarian. The blockchain didn't give a sh*t who we were. That is changing and Satoshi's vision is being raped.



This is not something we can let happen. We have the power to prevent, we have the power to fire core. We more than have the power, we have the responsibility to fire core. I hereby reserve the right to sometimes be wrong

traincarswreck



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Sr. MemberActivity: 476Merit: 250 Re: Control the Flow, Control the Power March 08, 2017, 08:04:48 PM #2 Quote Dumb people

You don't have a clue what you are talking about though. Let's talk about economics and see how smart you are. Or math. Or any subject, and lets see how smart you are.



You don't have a clue what you are talking about though. Let's talk about economics and see how smart you are. Or math. Or any subject, and lets see how smart you are.

uneng



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Hero MemberActivity: 742Merit: 507 Re: Control the Flow, Control the Power March 08, 2017, 08:06:20 PM #3 Could they increase the block size for normal transactions without losses for one or another part?

Something must be done to solve the transactions issues, and I think SegWit won't be aprooved. Worse than something happen is if nothing happen...

Sundark



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Hero MemberActivity: 560Merit: 502 Re: Control the Flow, Control the Power March 08, 2017, 08:08:12 PM #4 Do you think that when we fire Core developers situation will suddenly stabilize and we will have miraculous consensus ready?

Core devs are probably the most knowledgeable people, most of them worked on the bitcoin from the beginning and understand it like no other dev.

Maybe Satoshi's vision is something we can't have, similar to why we can't have pure working communism?



AliceWonderMiscreations



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Full MemberActivity: 182Merit: 100 Re: Control the Flow, Control the Power March 08, 2017, 08:11:34 PM #6 Quote from: traincarswreck on March 08, 2017, 08:04:48 PM Quote Dumb people

You don't have a clue what you are talking about though. Let's talk about economics and see how smart you are. Or math. Or any subject, and lets see how smart you are.





You don't have a clue what you are talking about though. Let's talk about economics and see how smart you are. Or math. Or any subject, and lets see how smart you are.

BA in Math, you might not want to go there.



But how smart or dumb I am never mattered to the blockchain before. BA in Math, you might not want to go there.But how smart or dumb I am never mattered to the blockchain before. I hereby reserve the right to sometimes be wrong

AliceWonderMiscreations



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Full MemberActivity: 182Merit: 100 Re: Control the Flow, Control the Power March 08, 2017, 08:13:36 PM #7 Quote from: uneng on March 08, 2017, 08:06:20 PM Could they increase the block size for normal transactions without losses for one or another part?

Something must be done to solve the transactions issues, and I think SegWit won't be aprooved. Worse than something happen is if nothing happen...



They could increase the block size without giving up SegWit - but they didn't, and I suspect the reason they didn't is because they knew people wouldn't use SegWit if there was room in the blockchain for transactions without SegWit. They wouldn't gain any power. They could increase the block size without giving up SegWit - but they didn't, and I suspect the reason they didn't is because they knew people wouldn't use SegWit if there was room in the blockchain for transactions without SegWit. They wouldn't gain any power. I hereby reserve the right to sometimes be wrong

AngryDwarf



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Sr. MemberActivity: 476Merit: 500 Re: Control the Flow, Control the Power March 08, 2017, 08:24:52 PM #13 It's a good topic. Please don't allow it to descend into personal abuse hurling.



Satoshi envisaged millions of users using SPV wallets, and a centralisation of nodes towards big mining farms and well connected bitcoin service providers and merchants.

8 decimal digits where created to facilitate this. Currently core seem to be restricting transaction capacity to try to accelerate the deflation of BTC through unspendable UTXO's created by high fees. Segwit as a soft fork does not change this. Nothing against voluntary off-chain services.

Do not allow demand to exceed capacity. Do not allow mempools to forget transactions. Relay all transactions. Eventually confirm all transactions. Scaling and transaction rate: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=532.msg6306#msg6306 Do not allow demand to exceed capacity. Do not allow mempools to forget transactions. Relay all transactions. Eventually confirm all transactions.

AliceWonderMiscreations



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Full MemberActivity: 182Merit: 100 Re: Control the Flow, Control the Power March 08, 2017, 08:26:56 PM #14 If you really want an excuse to discredit me, I am a socialist. I'm guessing that makes me scum in your view.



But the blockchain doesn't care. And that's what made bitcoin so beautiful. It didn't care. It was a balanced ledger of inputs and outputs that anyone could use. That is being taken away from us with Core's refusal to simply increase the block size. I hereby reserve the right to sometimes be wrong

Senor.Bla



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Sr. MemberActivity: 280Merit: 250 Re: Control the Flow, Control the Power March 08, 2017, 08:29:07 PM #16 I don't know if core needs to be replaced and i don't know what is the best course of action now. Other people have strong feelings about this. What i can tell you is, that Bitcoin is complex. Even with your ever day money people have problems to understand it. Bitcoin will never be understood by the masses and so will no other coin. Therefor people will always rely on others to tell hem what is good and what is bad for them. Also there will always people exist that want to grab those powers to decide and make money while doing it. The beauty of Bitcoin was always that it was hard to do this kind of thing with Bitcoin and it would most certainly only be possible with 2nd layer solutions. Whether or nor SegWit is a power grab, there will always be someone tying to get hold of Bitcoin. Also the idea of Bitcoin is out there. If Bitcoin one day should be not what it's supposed to be, then it might take a while but the smart ones will find another coin and start using it until history repeats itself. ▓▓▓ BITMIXER.IO ▓▓▓ ▓▓▓ High Volume Bitcoin MIXER ▓▓▓

Sundark



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Hero MemberActivity: 560Merit: 502 Re: Control the Flow, Control the Power March 08, 2017, 08:30:48 PM

Last edit: March 08, 2017, 08:53:43 PM by Sundark #17

Higher block size = more tx per second and lower fees (most likely) but bigger blocks = damage to decentralization and other minor technical difficulties (higher chance for orphaned blocks). If increasing block size was so amazing and risk free solution then we would had it already. It is not that simple as firing core devsHigher block size = more tx per second and lower fees (most likely) but bigger blocks = damage to decentralization and other minor technical difficulties (higher chance for orphaned blocks).