ELLEN FANNING, PRESENTER: Since 2014, Alexander Downer has been the Australian Government's man in London. He's also well-known as a long-serving foreign minister.

Last year, The New York Times reported he played a role in triggering an FBI investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 US election campaign, after a Trump campaign staffer allegedly told him the Russians had emails hacked from the Democratic Party.

In his final days as High Commissioner, Alexander Downer joined me earlier from London.

Mr Downer, thank you so much for joining us.

ALEXANDER DOWNER, HIGH COMMISSIONER TO THE UK: It's a pleasure.

ELLEN FANNING: I want to start by asking you: did you meet with George Papadopoulos in the Kensington Wine Bar in May of 2016? And if so, what did he say to you?

ALEXANDER DOWNER: Well, let me be blunt about this. Of course, it has been widely reported that I did.

But I don't think talking about it is going to help our relationship with the United States or make any contribution that will advance Australia's interests.

After all, this whole question of Russia and any relationship that Russians may have had at any stage with the Trump campaign team is a toxic issue in American politics. And I don't think any of us really want to be dragged into that any more than we can help.

ELLEN FANNING: You say you don't want to talk about it, so it sounds like it did occur. And, as you say, it has been widely reported.

Here is what we think we know about it. It's information independently verified by the New York Times and by the Sydney Morning Herald: and that is that Mr Papadopoulos told you that he had become aware that Russia had a dirt file on Hillary Clinton, based on hacked Democratic Party emails. Is that what he told you, very simply?

ALEXANDER DOWNER: Well, as I said, I am not going to go into granular detail like that. I am really not, because this issue plays into American politics in a really major way and I have no enthusiasm to play into American politics in the first place.

And in the second place, I mean, I don't think it's in Australia's interests that we do play into American politics, more than is necessary for our country.

ELLEN FANNING: All right. Well, can I ask you this, very simply: have you been interviewed or questioned or expect to be interviewed or questioned by the FBI or the Mueller investigation?

ALEXANDER DOWNER: I mean, it's exactly the sort of question that I definitely wouldn't answer.

ELLEN FANNING: Let's turn to the person of Donald Trump. You have said he shouldn't be judged by his tweets. Why shouldn't we judge the US President on his words?

ALEXANDER DOWNER: Well, think, in the end, to be wise here, it is best to judge people on their actions, not just on their words.

Of course, people draw conclusions about the tweets and I think many people are very offended by his extensive - or have been - by his extensive use of Twitter. But I think it is important to judge Donald Trump by his actions as the President of the United States.

So there will be people who will speak positively of the tax cuts that he's introduced, particularly the corporate tax cuts in the United States; the tough approach he's taken to North Korea; the somewhat more robust approach he's taken to Syria and the use of chemical weapons by the Assad regime.

These things would be seen by many people as positives for Donald Trump.

ELLEN FANNING: You are a well-known monarchist. What do you think of the prospects of Australia becoming a republic in your lifetime?

ALEXANDER DOWNER: Look, who knows? But I don't think this is a front-of-the-mind issue for most Australians. Obviously for a minority of people, they have very passionate about it. But for most Australians, I don't think this is a front-of-the-mind issue.

I think in the end, the difficulty is always going to be, as is the case in Canada and New Zealand, that we have constitutional arrangements at the moment which work pretty well for us and we're not... You know, how much time are we going to invest in changing those constitutional arrangements: getting rid, in effect, of the Governor-General, who is seen to be way above politics, and replacing the Governor-General with a politician: with a presumably Liberal or Labor president? And how will that change Australia?

People just think, well, Sir Peter Cosgrove does a fantastic job as the Governor-General. He's a very good...

ELLEN FANNING: We've even got Kim Beasley, the Governor of Western Australia, you might have noticed?

ALEXANDER DOWNER: Yes. Of course, I mean...

ELLEN FANNING: What was your reaction to that?

ALEXANDER DOWNER: Well, I think it's an excellent appointment. Kim Beazley is a very distinguished Australian.

He has, as you know, been the ambassador in Washington, a Cabinet minister; has enormous experience. It will be a great help to Western Australia.

But it is the point, isn't it. Going into that position because of the nature of the monarchy and the neutrality of the monarchy, going into that position as the governor of Western Australia, he's not going to been seen as somebody who will use that job to advance the interests of the Labor Party.

He will do the job in a completely neutral way. He's mature enough and sophisticated enough to know that.

ELLEN FANNING: You can't have switched off, I am sure, from Australian politics in your four years in London. Is Tony Abbott destabilising the party?

ALEXANDER DOWNER: Well, I think - yes, you are absolutely right: I certainly follow Australian politics pretty closely.

ELLEN FANNING: Right.

ALEXANDER DOWNER: From London, though: so I make that qualification. You can never follow it quite so closely as if you are in your own country.

But look, I think the important thing for the Liberal Party, including for Tony Abbott, for all of them, is to concentrate on policy, not personalities.

I think, when you look at Australia from the UK and you look at Australia in a kind of global context, it's a country that is doing extraordinarily well. There's a wonderful quality of life that people have in Australia. The country stands proud in the world. It has a huge amount to be proud of. And so some of the debate...

ELLEN FANNING: And yet, despite all that, we have such instability, don't we? We have such instability at a federal level.

ALEXANDER DOWNER: I am not sure.

ELLEN FANNING: Does it frustrate you to watch Tony Abbott, to watch Barnaby Joyce, to watch the others on the sidelines?

ALEXANDER DOWNER: But I... But on the other hand, to be honest with you, over many years - in fact, I could say ever since I can remember, which is quite a few years - there have been these sorts of debates within political parties. There are personality conflicts. There are factional tensions or whatever it may be.

I mean, a political party is in itself a coalition of interests. It would be a strange political party if everybody always agreed with each other or everybody always agreed with a leader. You are always going to have a degree of dynamic dispute within a political party.

ELLEN FANNING: Mr Downer, thank you so much for your time.

ALEXANDER DOWNER: It's a pleasure.

ELLEN FANNING: "A degree of dynamic dispute": a very diplomatic Alexander Downer, who finishes up as High Commissioner in London on Thursday.