1 #1 MR_SLIN 0 Frags – + The Rewind LAN whitelist: http://whitelist.tf/6769

Experimental PugChamp whitelist: http://whitelist.tf/6772 We decided to only ban weapons for the upcoming Rewind LAN to have minimal effect on the event.

We'll experiment in PugChamp with an experimental league list since matches start the week of the 22nd and we need time to playtest. Will run this by Erynn. There's still room for a followup meeting should we need it prior to the start of league play. I'm sure there will be a lot of whitelist discussions at the Rewind LAN itself as well. Changelist for Rewind LAN (list #6769)

Ban > Rescue Ranger

Ban > Jarate

Ban > Machina Changelist for League Play (list #6772)

Ban > Rescue Ranger

Ban > Jarate

Unban > Sodapopper

Unban > Dalokohs Bar

Unban > Pomson 6000

Unban > Quick Fix

Unban > Solemn Vow Meeting notes:

1. We won't be unbanning anything for the Rewind LAN because it could drastically change results due to the limited amount of time that teams have to prepare (less than one week). Players on both sides of the pond agreed that the rescue ranger and jarate were the worst offenders and needed to be banned regardless, at least for the time being.

2. We can always schedule a follow-up meeting but league play starts in a week so let's start experimenting now.

3. There are major issues regarding consistency of weapon bans. People wanted to ban the cow mangler simply because it was annoying (not game breaking) but couldn't apply the same logic to the natscha or the fan of war.

4. We should operate under the assumption that Valve won't give us major game balancing updates more than a few times per year.

5. We shouldn't make massive changes from the last global whitelist. Thus we proposed only 7 changes.

6. Tri specifically (ESEA) was against the quick fix and the solemn vow for reasons you guys have listed above. We agreed to a week of playtesting followed by a solid decision. The Rewind LAN whitelist: http://whitelist.tf/6769

Experimental PugChamp whitelist: http://whitelist.tf/6772



We decided to only ban weapons for the upcoming Rewind LAN to have minimal effect on the event.

We'll experiment in PugChamp with an experimental league list since matches start the week of the 22nd and we need time to playtest. Will run this by Erynn.



There's still room for a followup meeting should we need it prior to the start of league play. I'm sure there will be a lot of whitelist discussions at the Rewind LAN itself as well.



[b]Changelist for Rewind LAN (list #6769)[/b]

Ban > Rescue Ranger

Ban > Jarate

Ban > Machina



[b]Changelist for League Play (list #6772)[/b]

Ban > Rescue Ranger

Ban > Jarate

Unban > Sodapopper

Unban > Dalokohs Bar

Unban > Pomson 6000

Unban > Quick Fix

Unban > Solemn Vow



Meeting notes:

1. We won't be unbanning anything for the Rewind LAN because it could drastically change results due to the limited amount of time that teams have to prepare (less than one week). Players on both sides of the pond agreed that the rescue ranger and jarate were the worst offenders and needed to be banned regardless, at least for the time being.

2. We can always schedule a follow-up meeting but league play starts in a week so let's start experimenting now.

3. There are major issues regarding consistency of weapon bans. People wanted to ban the cow mangler simply because it was annoying (not game breaking) but couldn't apply the same logic to the natscha or the fan of war.

4. We should operate under the assumption that Valve won't give us major game balancing updates more than a few times per year.

5. We shouldn't make massive changes from the last global whitelist. Thus we proposed only 7 changes.

6. Tri specifically (ESEA) was against the quick fix and the solemn vow for reasons you guys have listed above. We agreed to a week of playtesting followed by a solid decision.

2 #2 Iee 8 Frags – + happy mlk day slin happy mlk day slin

3 #3 nazara 38 Frags – + I thought they agreed to ban the cow mangler I was so excited I thought they agreed to ban the cow mangler I was so excited

4 #4 tsar 16 Frags – + why are jarate, machina, and rr allowed on pug champ? They got banned. Honestly, rewind should be current whitelist and next season should be the rewind whitelist, if not more things banned. I don't understand why we're allowing weapons we're on the fence about. What's to gain? why are jarate, machina, and rr allowed on pug champ? They got banned.



Honestly, rewind should be current whitelist and next season should be the rewind whitelist, if not more things banned. I don't understand why we're allowing weapons we're on the fence about. What's to gain?

5 #5 Starkie 71 Frags – + why would you ban unlocks a week before a LAN why would you ban unlocks a week before a LAN

6 #6 mikemat 33 Frags – + I know its only gonna happen like once, but I'm gonna be so tilted when I get dropped pushing last cuz our med gets pomson'd for 1% I know its only gonna happen like once, but I'm gonna be so tilted when I get dropped pushing last cuz our med gets pomson'd for 1%

7 #7 aim- 17 Frags – + Starkie why would you ban unlocks a week before a LAN cause u kept owning that 1 team on viaduct with it and he argued heavily for it to be banned [quote=Starkie]why would you ban unlocks a week before a LAN[/quote]

cause u kept owning that 1 team on viaduct with it and he argued heavily for it to be banned

8 #8 T0m 82 Frags – + unbanning the quick fix is the most retarded thing ive seen in a long time unbanning the quick fix is the most retarded thing ive seen in a long time

9 #9 bearodactyl 25 Frags – + Starkie why would you ban unlocks a week before a LAN this and what is the logic behind allowing quick fix and solemon's vow [quote=Starkie]why would you ban unlocks a week before a LAN[/quote]

this and what is the logic behind allowing quick fix and solemon's vow

10 #10 Crayon 53 Frags – + T0m unbanning the quick fix is the most retarded thing ive seen in a long time b-but then maybe valve will be happy with us :) :) [quote=T0m]unbanning the quick fix is the most retarded thing ive seen in a long time[/quote]



b-but then maybe valve will be happy with us :)













:)

11 #11 bearodactyl 17 Frags – + also why is slin the person in control of it he got cut he doesn't have to suffer through the ensuing aids (god forbid some mongo with a pomson shoots me once as im pushing through a choke point and deletes my uber) also why is slin the person in control of it he got cut he doesn't have to suffer through the ensuing aids (god forbid some mongo with a pomson shoots me once as im pushing through a choke point and deletes my uber)

12 #12 MR_SLIN -12 Frags – + Starkie why would you ban unlocks a week before a LAN I'm not the tournament admin for the LAN, these are just our proposed changes after talking with TF2 league admins and high level players from around the world. I believe Samiface is the tournament admin for Rewind LAN. Our thought process was that these two weapons are very overpowered and a significant portion of the competitive community doesn't like playing with them. We didn't want to make a potentially unexpected, significant change by unbanning something so we only banned two items. These two items have been hotly debated in the community throughout the season. [quote=Starkie]why would you ban unlocks a week before a LAN[/quote]

I'm not the tournament admin for the LAN, these are just our proposed changes after talking with TF2 league admins and high level players from around the world. I believe Samiface is the tournament admin for Rewind LAN.



Our thought process was that these two weapons are very overpowered and a significant portion of the competitive community doesn't like playing with them. We didn't want to make a potentially unexpected, significant change by unbanning something so we only banned two items. These two items have been hotly debated in the community throughout the season.

13 #13 T0m 37 Frags – + oh shit i forgot now we will have 4 majors and an international my bad guys oh shit i forgot now we will have 4 majors and an international my bad guys

14 #14 Alfie 37 Frags – + Crayon T0m unbanning the quick fix is the most retarded thing ive seen in a long time

b-but then maybe valve will be happy with us :)



:) Every weapon we unban Valve give us a major with $2m prize pool [quote=Crayon][quote=T0m]unbanning the quick fix is the most retarded thing ive seen in a long time[/quote]



b-but then maybe valve will be happy with us :)



:)[/quote]

Every weapon we unban Valve give us a major with $2m prize pool

15 #15 Pete 68 Frags – + Starkie why would you ban unlocks a week before a LAN why weren't you at the meeting bearodactyl also why is slin the person in control of it he got cut he doesn't have to suffer through the ensuing aids (god forbid some mongo with a pomson shoots me once as im pushing through a choke point and deletes my uber he's not in charge of it he's just the only one willing to make a meeting happen [quote=Starkie]why would you ban unlocks a week before a LAN[/quote]



why weren't you at the meeting



[quote=bearodactyl]also why is slin the person in control of it he got cut he doesn't have to suffer through the ensuing aids (god forbid some mongo with a pomson shoots me once as im pushing through a choke point and deletes my uber[/quote]



he's not in charge of it he's just the only one willing to make a meeting happen

16 #16 nati0n 11 Frags – + damn i love majors damn i love majors

17 #17 bearodactyl -9 Frags – + knuck Starkie why would you ban unlocks a week before a LAN

why weren't you at the meeting

bearodactyl also why is slin the person in control of it he got cut he doesn't have to suffer through the ensuing aids (god forbid some mongo with a pomson shoots me once as im pushing through a choke point and deletes my uber

he's not in charge of it he's just the only one willing to make a meeting happen believe it or not some people have lives and or don't want to sit in a mumble with a hundred sweaty retards arguing about which stupid unlock to unban this time [quote=knuck][quote=Starkie]why would you ban unlocks a week before a LAN[/quote]



why weren't you at the meeting



[quote=bearodactyl]also why is slin the person in control of it he got cut he doesn't have to suffer through the ensuing aids (god forbid some mongo with a pomson shoots me once as im pushing through a choke point and deletes my uber[/quote]



he's not in charge of it he's just the only one willing to make a meeting happen[/quote]

believe it or not some people have lives and or don't want to sit in a mumble with a hundred sweaty retards arguing about which stupid unlock to unban this time

18 #18 MKY 0 Frags – + incoming tf2 international incoming tf2 international

19 #19 Alfie 31 Frags – + knuck Starkie why would you ban unlocks a week before a LAN

why weren't you at the meeting his cat shit on his mail and he was cleaning it up [quote=knuck][quote=Starkie]why would you ban unlocks a week before a LAN[/quote]



why weren't you at the meeting[/quote]

his cat shit on his mail and he was cleaning it up

20 #20 rocketslay 0 Frags – + if u don't attend the meeting then don't complain when unlocks that most people wanted banned anyways are banned eh? if u don't attend the meeting then don't complain when unlocks that most people wanted banned anyways are banned eh?

21 #21 Crayon 10 Frags – + knuck Starkie why would you ban unlocks a week before a LAN

why weren't you at the meeting

bearodactyl also why is slin the person in control of it he got cut he doesn't have to suffer through the ensuing aids (god forbid some mongo with a pomson shoots me once as im pushing through a choke point and deletes my uber

he's not in charge of it he's just the only one willing to make a meeting happen why do we need a meeting idgi. I don't understand why we need to open up the whitelist at all, who are we trying to please? It's like we're making these changes under the ideology of valve giving more support, but at the expense of those actually playing at the time. As someone who plays the game recreationally I want to enjoy the game now, not suffer through a year of awful whitelists planning ahead for the future. [quote=knuck][quote=Starkie]why would you ban unlocks a week before a LAN[/quote]



why weren't you at the meeting



[quote=bearodactyl]also why is slin the person in control of it he got cut he doesn't have to suffer through the ensuing aids (god forbid some mongo with a pomson shoots me once as im pushing through a choke point and deletes my uber[/quote]



he's not in charge of it he's just the only one willing to make a meeting happen[/quote]



why do we need a meeting idgi. I don't understand why we need to open up the whitelist at all, who are we trying to please? It's like we're making these changes under the ideology of valve giving more support, but at the expense of those actually playing at the time. As someone who plays the game recreationally I want to enjoy the game now, not suffer through a year of awful whitelists planning ahead for the future.

22 #22 Starkie 44 Frags – + rocketslay if u don't attend the meeting then don't complain when unlocks that most people wanted banned anyways are banned eh? im not complaining that theyre banned, im complaining that theyre banned so close to the tournament [quote=rocketslay]if u don't attend the meeting then don't complain when unlocks that most people wanted banned anyways are banned eh?[/quote]

im not complaining that theyre banned, im complaining that theyre banned so close to the tournament

23 #23 Dolly 15 Frags – + No stark lobbin a kaidus-coordinated jarate set smoke onto nursey :/ No stark lobbin a kaidus-coordinated jarate set smoke onto nursey :/

24 #24 MR_SLIN -26 Frags – + Crayon the purpose of the meeting was to discuss unbans AND bans. Don't be so narrow minded. Crayon the purpose of the meeting was to discuss unbans AND bans. Don't be so narrow minded.

26 #26 MR_SLIN -24 Frags – + FFyg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OalWDhYfdeg I casted that LAN and was one of the people complaining. The worst part about the weapon was that it got changed mid-season so it messed everything up. We've had a chance to take a look at the weapon in the off-season so this isn't the same situation. [quote=FFyg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OalWDhYfdeg[/quote]

I casted that LAN and was one of the people complaining. The worst part about the weapon was that it got changed mid-season so it messed everything up. We've had a chance to take a look at the weapon in the off-season so this isn't the same situation.

27 #27 viper 25 Frags – + i can't wait to play against scouts with 5 jumps and flying medics i can't wait to play against scouts with 5 jumps and flying medics

28 #28 Cleepople 18 Frags – + soda popper+winger to make pugs even more aids soda popper+winger to make pugs even more aids

29 #29 nati0n 40 Frags – + MR_SLIN FFyg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OalWDhYfdeg I casted that LAN and was one of the people complaining. The worst part about the weapon was that it got changed mid-season so it messed everything up. We've had a chance to take a look at the weapon in the off-season so this isn't the same situation. DownFraggeD [quote=MR_SLIN][quote=FFyg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OalWDhYfdeg[/quote]

I casted that LAN and was one of the people complaining. The worst part about the weapon was that it got changed mid-season so it messed everything up. We've had a chance to take a look at the weapon in the off-season so this isn't the same situation.[/quote]

DownFraggeD