CHRIS UHLMANN, PRESENTER: A short time ago I was joined by the National Secretary of the Health Services Union.

Kathy Jackson, welcome.

KATHY JACKSON, NATIONAL SECRETARY, HSU: Thank you Chris.

CHRIS UHLMANN: Did you witness a confrontation where a union official Marco Bolano said he would ruin Craig Thomson by setting him up with prostitutes?

KATHY JACKSON: I have never witnessed such a confrontation or meeting or clash or whatever you want to call it. That has never occurred.

CHRIS UHLMANN: Did you witness any kind of confrontation between those two men?

KATHY JACKSON: Never.

CHRIS UHLMANN: Yet Mr Thomson said he wrote to you about that confrontation. Have you ever received a letter about it?

KATHY JACKSON: I have never received a letter about any confrontation. If he has a letter then he should provide it not only to me but to the Victoria police or strikeforce Carnarvon.

CHRIS UHLMANN: Are you aware of any union officials before Mr Thomson be accused of consorting with prostitutes?

KATHY JACKSON: No.

CHRIS UHLMANN: Are you aware of a conversation where another official Michael Williamson said that it was a common practise for the Victorian branch to do that?

KATHY JACKSON: No.

CHRIS UHLMANN: Do you understand where any of these allegation are coming from?

KATHY JACKSON: I think they are coming out of the mouth of a very pathetic and delusional man this has gone beyond a joke now. It's a circus. So this bizarre circus needs to end, not only for Craig and his family, but for the Australian public are sick of it and so are the members of the HSU.

CHRIS UHLMANN: Are you in part responsible for that circus because you have made many accusations and as yet Mr Thomson has not been charged with anything?

KATHY JACKSON: I take no responsibility for where Craig Thomson has ended up. What I do take responsibility for is cleaning up the HSU. The HSU East is a branch of the union that has deep-rooted corruption.

That still hasn't come to light properly. The strikeforce Carnarvon are investigating I think quite competently and they should be commended for their efforts to date.

CHRIS UHLMANN: But you helped set up HSU East with Michael Williamson didn't you, so aren't you partly responsible for whatever corruption there might thereby?

KATHY JACKSON: Not at all. As soon as I became aware of the corruption I took my allegations to the police, I tried dealing with those allegations internally, unfortunately, no-one was willing to help me out, I had no other option but to go to the police and of course to the media.

I don't see the media as an enemy. The antiseptic of public scrutiny is what's going to make sure the HSU members never get ripped off again.

CHRIS UHLMANN: Well Mr Thomson's made many accusations about you as you have of him. He points out that you drive a union paid for Volvo, that your child care and gym fees are paid for, you have taken numerous overseas trips at the expense of the union and that you're salary doubled in the weeks after he left at $270,000.

KATHY JACKSON: I reject all those claims. What I do say about the salary I'm quite interested in, what did he say ...

CHRIS UHLMANN: $270,000.

KATHY JACKSON: No, but did he say a week after?

CHRIS UHLMANN: Within weeks.

KATHY JACKSON: Within weeks. I can tell you my wage increase happened when we amalgamated when we became part of HSU East. That's when I got a wage increase.

I did not... when I became National Secretary I went on the wage that he was on. The increase that I received was post amalgamation.

CHRIS UHLMANN: To $270,000?

KATHY JACKSON: That's correct.

CHRIS UHLMANN: Doesn't that seem a little excessive...

KATHY JACKSON: Yes, it does.

CHRIS UHLMANN: ... for someone who represents some. Poorest workers in Australia?

KATHY JACKSON: I agree with you but let's look at the history of this. As I said previously this was rammed through the council, by Michael Williamson and his people. We objected to it. The Victorians ran a case against it to the council, it was in camera.

I wasn't at the meeting. We were asked to leave. The New South Wales councillors rammed this proposal through.

At mediation last week in the courts, as part of that mediation, process, I put my hand up and said that I should get at least $100,000 salary cut, and that was rejected.

CHRIS UHLMANN: Is there a conflict of interest here because your partner Michael Lawler is the vice President of Fair Work Australia?

KATHY JACKSON: No, not at all and I reject that claim totally. And Craig Thomson's allegations are totally wicked against him. Michael Lawler is the Vice-President of Fair Work Australia, formerly the Australian Industrial Relations Commission.

As Craig Thomson knows - well knows, the regulator arm of Fair Work Australia has nothing to do with the tribunal and for him to try to link him in to that is totally wicked.

CHRIS UHLMANN: Are you concerned at all about perceptions of conflict of interest?

KATHY JACKSON: That's what he's trying to do. Craig Thomson is obviously trying to smear everybody to get himself out of the hole that he has dug himself into. My advice to Craig Thomson is to you know the more he says the worse he looks.

CHRIS UHLMANN: Has Michael Lawler ever been involved with you in any of the strategy meetings with the HSU about any of the actions that you have got going?

KATHY JACKSON: Well obviously as my partner I talk to Michael about what I'm doing and as my partner I talk to him about not just HSU issues but other issues as well.

CHRIS UHLMANN: Is it that appropriate?

KATHY JACKSON: I think it's very appropriate as my partner that I ask him advice and assistance. But he is not running the case for the HSU. I tell him what I'm doing, not the other way around.

CHRIS UHLMANN: Does Michael Lawler have connections with the Liberal Party as Craig Thomson suggests?

KATHY JACKSON: Not that I know of.

CHRIS UHLMANN: Anything that might lead to you believe that he does?

KATHY JACKSON: No. But that's like when they said last week made statements against me for you know going to the HR Nicholls society. We live in a free society.

I've got links in the Liberal Party. I've got friends that are Greens. Amnesty international, you know, we live in a free society. We're allowed to talk to people.

CHRIS UHLMANN: You mentioned the HR Nicholls society, who is saying your legal bills?

KATHY JACKSON: I'm paying my legal bills. Um ... I've got a $40,000 debt already. That the union won't pay for. And Brett Shields for Reid Zafp are doing all the work pro-bono and so is Stewart Ward.

CHRIS UHLMANN: Are you still using Harmers workplace lawyers?

KATHY JACKSON: Yes I am.

CHRIS UHLMANN: Why?

KATHY JACKSON: Well, cause I went to every Labor law firm in town and they couldn't represent me, they're all conflicted.

CHRIS UHLMANN: And are they doing that work pro-bono?

KATHY JACKSON: Yes they are.

CHRIS UHLMANN: Are you aware that it's the same law firm that's representing James Ashby the man who has accused the Speaker of sexual harassment.

KATHY JACKSON: I am now.

CHRIS UHLMANN: Doesn't it seem odd to you?

KATHY JACKSON: No, well, why... it seems odd to me that Maurice Blackburn is representing Peter Slipper when he they are an employment law firm, why isn't that strange?

CHRIS UHLMANN: It does seems that the two big cases that are going in parliament at the moment should both be represented by the same law firm does seem at the very least to be just a touch strange.

KATHY JACKSON: Well, why isn't it strange that the federal office of the Health Services Union is being represented by Holding Redlich who are the same lawyers that Craig Thomson is using.

CHRIS UHLMANN: And why do you thik Harmers workplace lawyers is representing you pro-bono?

KATHY JACKSON: I think they are representing me pro-bono because they believe in my case. I'm not making this up. The allegations that I have taken to the police are serious and genuine. I have not made these allegations to set Craig Thomson up or anybody up.

The allegations that I have made and continue to make is that the HSU East branch is riddled with corruption, and we need to get rid of it and I'm doing that on behalf of the membership.

CHRIS UHLMANN: An can you put your hand and your heart and say that you've never destroyed any documents or has been accused of laundering money through other people's bank accounts?

KATHY JACKSON: I can put my hand on my heart and say that I've never ever destroyed documents. The documents just were not there and I do not launder money.

CHRIS UHLMANN: Do you have any sympathy at all for Craig Thomson?

KATHY JACKSON: I have sympathy for his wife and his family and I have sympathy for him. I thought it was quite sad to see him in Parliament today being forced into this position.

And he's been forced into that position because it's a hung Parliament otherwise they would've given him the boot a long time ago.

CHRIS UHLMANN: Kathy Jackson, thank you.

KATHY JACKSON: Thank you.