CNN’s Chris Cuomo spoke with Rudy Giuliani tonight to again try and make sense of the latest flip-flop from President Donald Trump‘s lawyer.

Giuliani denied to Tapper that he ever said Trump told James Comey to give Michael Flynn a break. Minutes later Tapper showed him the video of him directly saying that.

After talking about Omarosa, Cuomo told Giuliani tonight, “I cannot find you ever saying the president did not have that conversation with Comey until this weekend.”

Giuliani insisted he did so from the beginning, and Cuomo asked, “Why do you keep arguing in the alternative if you have high ground that it never happened?”

“Because I can get him out of it legally,” Giuliani responded. “I can get him out of it factually. He’s got both defenses.”

For this to be true, Cuomo pointed out, Comey would have to be a “crazy liar.” Giuliani said he is one.

He went on to argue that if Comey felt “he was being obstructed… he had a duty to report it,” leading to this exchange:

CUOMO: So you’re saying that if the President did say to Jim Comey what Jim Comey says it is, that there’s a crime involved? GIULIANI: Yes. CUOMO: But only for Jim Comey, not for the President of the United States? GIULIANI: Well, the President says he didn’t say it. And the best evidence of it is Comey never reported it.

Cuomo said that “seems a little tortured.” Giuliani again said, “It’s not a problem for Trump because he never said it. Comey claims he said it.”

To clarify, Cuomo asked at one point, “And the President has said to you, ‘I never said any word to him ever about Flynn ever’ in that context?”

Giuliani responded, “Pretty much, yeah. That’s pretty close.”

Cuomo said again that rather remarkable claim would mean “Jim Comey made up the whole conversation.”

You can watch the full exchange above, via CNN.

[image via screengrab]

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