michael barbaro

From The New York Times, I’m Michael Barbaro. This is “The Daily.”

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archived recording Well, some call it the most dangerous place on the planet when it comes to facing a coronavirus outbreak — a packed county jail could be a disaster waiting to happen.

michael barbaro

Across the U.S. —

archived recording 1 The Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Department said — archived recording 2 In Chicago, the Cook County Jail has — archived recording 3 New York calls for quick action now growing louder after —

michael barbaro

Jails and prisons, with their cramped quarters and communal living, have become hotbeds for the spread of the coronavirus —

archived recording 1 Prisoners are sounding the alarm on the ballooning outbreak, writing messages on windows reading, “Help. We matter.” And “We’re dying.” archived recording 2 Everybody is losing it. I mean, it’s not just the detainees but also people that are working here. archived recording 3 We cannot change the fundamental nature of jail. We cannot socially distance dozens of elderly men living in a dorm sharing a bathroom. Think of a cruise ship recklessly boarding more passengers each day.

michael barbaro

— prompting local governments to take the unprecedented step of releasing thousands of inmates —

archived recording People are confined to their homes, but this pandemic is actually bringing freedom to some New York City inmates. Mayor de Blasio said —

michael barbaro

— and raising the fraught question of who is let out and who remains in custody. Today, Megan Twohey speaks with our colleague Alan Feuer about the story of one inmate trying to get out of the second largest jail in the country, Rikers Island in New York. It’s Thursday, April 23.

megan twohey

So, Alan, tell me about Mitch Pomerance.

alan feuer

So I met Mitch Pomerance through his lawyer, Laura Eraso. And Mitch is 54. And before the virus even landed at Rikers, Mitch was already in bad health. In fact, his health was so bad at one point that he had to be transported off the Island to a nearby hospital, where he underwent surgery to drain fluid from his lungs. And so he’s been working with Laura, his lawyer, trying to build a case to get off of Rikers Island.

laura eraso Hey, Mitch. Can you hear me? mitch pomerance Yes.

alan feuer

And we recorded three of their conversations over the course of a week, earlier this month.

laura eraso So you know, like I had told you a little bit about earlier regarding today, we were in line all day for the writ to be heard. But unfortunately, the court only goes to 4:30, and they weren’t able to squeeze it in on the calendar.

alan feuer

The court system, don’t forget, has more or less shut down because of the pandemic.

megan twohey

Right.

alan feuer

And on the day that we recorded our first call with Mitch, there was indeed a backlog in the court system, and the judge didn’t have time to hear Mitch’s case.

megan twohey

And while Mitch is waiting for the judge to hear his case, what is the situation like for him inside the jail?

laura eraso I know your sister told me that somebody else in your dorm had been taken out?

alan feuer

So Mitch is housed in a dorm at Rikers. And that means that he lives with a dozen or so inmates in one open room. And he tells his lawyer that one person in that dorm has tested positive for Coivd-19.

mitch pomerance Yes, we were tested again the other day, and it turns out that at least one is a carrier. So this guy actually, although he has no symptoms, he actually has the disease, they say, and he can pass it on to the rest of us. And so they took him out today, and it’s real scary because no one was told.

alan feuer

Mitch is also telling his lawyer here that the staff at Rikers hasn’t cleaned the dorms since that person tested positive.

laura eraso So what did they — did they just test you and leave? Or did they do any other — did they clean or sanitize or anything? mitch pomerance [LAUGHS] They didn’t clean. They didn’t even empty the garbage yet. We have garbage overflowing all the garbage pails, and they didn’t even clean. They gave us a new test two days ago, three days ago, and he’s the only one — the only they told us about so far. So I’m sure — I’m positive there’s more. I’m praying it’s not me. I’m praying it’s not me. laura eraso I mean, was he wearing a mask or anything? mitch pomerance No, never. They gave us one mask for the whole week yesterday — last night. My mask fell apart like four days ago. So I had no mask. I’ve had no mask for four days.

megan twohey

And how does that description of the conditions, at least in his particular dorm, how does that square with what you’ve learned in your reporting?

alan feuer

Well, from the start of the crisis, the Department of Corrections has taken several measures to slow the spread of the virus. They’ve asked inmates to sleep head to toe at night. You know, they wanted to get one mouth and nose as far away from another mouth and nose as they could. They had the cleaning staff clean the common areas and the housing areas as best as possible. But the fact is, conditions at Rikers remain very unsanitary. You know, the inmates can’t get hand sanitizer because it’s an alcohol-based product, and they’re not allowed to have alcohol. Oftentimes, the only way for them to get soap for their own personal hygiene is to buy it in the commissary. So these measures that were put in place to stop the spread of the virus haven’t always worked.

laura eraso I know you guys sleep in pretty close proximity. How close do you think you were to him? mitch pomerance About 5 feet, 6 feet from where he sleeps — he slept — over the next aisle over, one person over. laura eraso Wow. mitch pomerance So that was about 6 feet from me, yeah. laura eraso But how do you feel? How do your lungs feel? I know you’re going through that too. mitch pomerance It’s constantly — where they operate, it hurts a lot.

megan twohey

So it sounds like Mitch’s risk of getting Covid-19 is really high.

alan feuer

Yes. But, in fact, Mitch’s lawyer, Laura, expects they could get a decision from the judge very soon about the question of his release.

laura eraso And hopefully we get a result tomorrow, but we can talk more about that, OK? mitch pomerance OK, thank you so much for everything. I appreciate your help. I’ll be talking to you tomorrow. laura eraso All right, stay well. mitch pomerance Good luck. Thank you.

alan feuer

But when they talk the next day —

attorney Hey, can you hear me? mitch pomerance Yeah.

alan feuer

— she’s got some bad news. She and her team went in front of the judge. They argued the case. And the judge has said no, Mitch can’t get out.

megan twohey

Hmm.

laura eraso I’m trying to do it as quickly as possible. I realize that someone else who was sleeping next to you had tested positive. mitch pomerance Someone else? Not someone else — four people. laura eraso Wow. So they came back today — mitch pomerance Four people, four people. laura eraso — with the test? mitch pomerance Yeah, four people — today. This is crazy. This is actually crazy. They’re killing us. They are killing us. What are we supposed to do? What do we do? We need to file a writ. I need to get out of here. I need to get out of here. They’re killing me. If I catch this, I’m dead. I don’t know what to do. We need somebody to step in. We need somebody important to step in — a congressman, a senator, somebody, a court, a judge. Somebody’s gotta do something for us — somebody.

megan twohey

So by this point, Rikers has already released hundreds of inmates.

alan feuer

Correct.

megan twohey

So how are they deciding who stays and who goes?

alan feuer

Well, so far they’ve released 650 people. And of those 650 people, you’re generally talking about three different categories of inmates. First, there are those who have been accused of non-violent, low-level offenses. There are also people who are at Rikers serving what’s called a city year, a sentence that is short, less than a year, and so they’re about to get out anyhow. And then there’s a third category of people who are at the Island because they’ve committed a technical violation of their parole, meaning they were out on parole for a previous crime, and they got caught doing something minor like smoking a joint or drinking a beer on their sidewalk.

megan twohey

So how does Mitch fit into this picture?

alan feuer

So the challenge for Mitch is that his case is just a lot more complicated. Mitch has served a combined 22 years in prison for selling drugs and committing multiple robberies. The state considers him a violent offender. He got out of prison in 2018. But then, last summer, he was rearrested for an attempted robbery charge while he was on parole. So Mitch just doesn’t really fit neatly into any of those categories for people that were getting off Rikers Island. And yet, he’s medically vulnerable, which is another factor that judges are weighing in releasing people from Rikers and that the city itself is prioritizing people like that — those people, who, if they catch Covid-19, they’re more likely to die.

laura eraso We’re trying to put as much pressure on the governor, on New York state docs, on Commissioner Annucci to release everyone and release them safely. I mean, as I’ve said before — mitch pomerance I don’t care about everyone. I want to get out. I’m trying to get out. laura eraso No, I know. mitch pomerance I don’t care about anybody else. Everyone else is not sick like I am. I’m going to die if I have this. If I get it, I’m going to die. Simple as that. Simple as that. Let’s not play games. I’m going to die. I don’t care about anybody else right now. I’m being selfish about this.

alan feuer

So Mitch represents this really difficult but interesting tension that a lot of courts are facing across the country right now. Does he pose too much of a risk to public safety to be let out, or is he medically vulnerable enough to be let out? Should judges be prioritizing the safety of the public, or should they be thinking about the health of the individual inmates?

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megan twohey

So, Alan, it sounds like the judge, in denying Mitch’s request to get out of Rikers, is putting considerations of public safety above his health.

alan feuer

Yeah, absolutely.

megan twohey

So what does Mitch say about that?

alan feuer Hey, Mitch, Alan Feuer from The New York Times. How are you? mitch pomerance I’m OK, I guess. Things are horrible here.

alan feuer

Well, I asked him. I just put it to him if he was a public safety threat given his rap sheet.

alan feuer Well, let me ask you this. mitch pomerance Yes, sir. alan feuer Is there any way you can understand the judge’s decision? You know, it’s an attempted robbery charge. I’m not saying, you know, you haven’t been proven guilty yet. mitch pomerance Right. alan feuer But can you understand how a judge might make the decision that’s been made here? mitch pomerance Can I understand? Yes, I can understand. I can, without a doubt, that the judge doesn’t want to jump out the window and grant anything for fear of me going out and doing another crime, committing another crime. So, again, I do understand that. I absolutely do. But I can’t say anything more than look at my proof. alan feuer Do you see yourself as a threat to public safety? mitch pomerance I don’t. I don’t. alan feuer Explain that to me. mitch pomerance I can’t walk, first off. I’m in a wheelchair. If I can get up and walk two steps, it would be a miracle. I can’t walk. I mean, just look at the proof of what I have. At least with a clear conscience, look at it with open eyes, and then make a decision.

megan twohey

So what happens next?

mitch pomerance Hi, Laura. laura eraso Hey, Mitch, can you hear me? mitch pomerance Yes, I can.

alan feuer

Mitch and Laura talked again the day after the judge denied his request to leave Rikers.

laura eraso All right, so what did they tell you when they gave you your test? mitch pomerance So just five minutes ago the R.N. came, and he came around the dorm, and of the 12 people we have left in a dorm, everyone’s positive but three people. So now we’re positive, and we don’t know what’s going to happen now. There’s so many people that are positive —

alan feuer

Mitch tests positive for Covid-19.

megan twohey

Wow.

mitch pomerance Yeah, there’s so many people that are positive on Rikers Island, it’s out of control. It’s out of control. I don’t feel good at all. I’m having a problem breathing already. I told them I’m having a problem breathing this morning. This is — laura eraso OK, well, I mean, we’re going to move fast on this. I just was actually on the phone —

megan twohey

So is that it? Is Mitch out of options?

alan feuer

Well, what this does — the change that this makes in Mitch’s case from a legal perspective is that it allows Laura, his lawyer, to make a totally different argument in front of the judge. Now, instead of just saying that Mitch is potentially at risk of contracting the disease, she can argue that because he already has it, and he’s got this terrible preexisting condition in his lungs, that he’s not going to be able to get the proper medical care he needs at Rikers Island.

laura eraso I’m going to try to — I’m going to get these papers filed today, and I’m not going to wait for the other affirmation. So we’re going to handle this, and this definitely needs to be reargued in light of this fact, OK? mitch pomerance Yeah. laura eraso So just concentrate right now on trying to take care of yourself — your mental health, your physical health. So I’m going to be in touch. Call me at the end of the day, and I can confirm with you that I was able to finish that up and get it filed, OK? mitch pomerance All right, thanks. laura eraso OK, bye. Take care. mitch pomerance Goodbye.

alan feuer

These jails, like Navy ships or meat processing plants, they are petri dishes for infection. But unlike service members or essential workers, inmates in jails, they aren’t necessarily the most sympathetic population in the world. Still, should part of their punishment be to potentially contract a disease like Covid-19? I mean, is that supposed to be included in the price of going to jail? Mitch is still there at Rikers, waiting for an answer.

alan feuer So help me understand right now what an ordinary, average day of yours looks like today? mitch pomerance Hmm, well, I need help. I need help showering. So there’s this guy, Eddie, who helps me shower. He helps me get in and out of the shower in the morning time when he gets up. I take a shower, have breakfast, and go back to bed for a couple hours and take my medication. I’m just doing a lot of reading. That’s it. I try to stay in contact with my family on the phone. alan feuer And how are you feeling these days? mitch pomerance You know, I’m a little agitated right now. Any time I move around, it’s hard for me to breathe. So right now, I’m trying to draw breath. So I have a real bad headache right now. automated speaker You have one minute left. mitch pomerance I’m just trying to get out of here. I just want to be — I just want to live again. That’s it.

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megan twohey

Well, Alan, thank you so much for taking the time to share this with us.

alan feuer

Well, thanks for having me, Megan.

michael barbaro

We’ll be right back.

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michael barbaro