Paul McCartney has talked about the making of Kanye West's song “All Day” in a new interview for the BBC's Mastertapes series. He said he had to defend Kanye's use of the N-word to many people, including Oprah Winfrey. Reflecting on the collaboration, McCartney describes a session so low-key he expected little to come of it. But a few months later, he recalls, “I get this track back, a thing called ‘All Day’: He's taken my melody and he's made it seriously urban, which is funny because the lyrics use the N-word—a lot! ‘How long have you been at the mall? All day, n-word.’”

McCartney says he ignored advice to steer clear of the release. “People like Oprah, who are a little conservative about that stuff, she says, ‘You shouldn't do it, even black people shouldn't use that word.’ I said, ‘Yeah, but it's Kanye! And he's talking about an urban generation that uses that word in a completely different way. It's the context. So I was actually pleased with it.’” Watch the segment below.

The filmed version of BBC Radio 4’s Mastertapes with Paul McCartney is available in the U.K. here. The full, extended interview will broadcast on BBC Radio 4 on May 28, at 10 a.m.