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The state of the Alien: Covenant sequel continues to remain uncertain. Ridley Scott has mentioned previously that they have a story already in place and know exactly where the sequel to Covenant will go, however the recent acquisition of 20th Century Fox film properties by Disney have potentially put the rumored-to-be-titled Alien: Awakening on hold for the time being. As new details arise concerning Alien: Covenant 2 we will be your premiere source and you can find information on the Covenant sequel by visiting the About Alien: Awakening page here .

If you're a fan of Alien / Prometheus and would like to discuss Alien: Covenant and its upcoming sequel with other like-minded fans, be sure to join in our Alien: Covenant forum ! Ranked the #1 Prometheus forum back in 2012 and reigning as the web's top Alien: Covenant fan site, it's a great place to discuss the upcoming Prometheus sequels, dissect details from every trailer and engage with other fans just like you.

Huge thank you to Neomorpheus for the find and for sharing this with us in the Alien: Covenant forums !

With this news of Engineers discovering the decimated home world and undoubtedly discovering what occurred, they will seek revenge against David and Humanity. Could this be setting up for a clash between Engineers and Aliens? An all out war between David's army of Xenomorphs and the vengeful Engineer race pursuing him? It's beginning to sound a lot like Alien: Covenant 2 will involve some form of clash between the two. How do you think this will play out? Let us know in the comments below or in the forums !

It's extremely exciting to know the Engineers will be a prevalent aspect in the Alien: Covenant sequel - with many Prometheus fans having wished that was the case in Covenant.

Scott has also confirmed we will go to "The Planet" , which could mean Origae-6 or LV-426, if they're not both the same planet as some fans have already speculated.

We also know that David is on board the Covenant with 2,000 colonists, Daniels and Tennessee in cryo, drifting through space on their way to Origae-6.

We know the Engineers are not all dead - David did not wipe them all out. However, he most certainly did destroy a very sacred place for their species and so, the Engineers who come back to find their species wiped out will no doubt be furious.

So what do we know about Alien: Covenant 2 so far, given Ridley's comments?

Where we go next is obvious. We’re gonna actually go to the planet .

There will be three or four different players coming in to investigate. One of which will be the Engineers arriving back to find their planet decimated . I think those ships come and go on regular intervals. I see them as the gardeners of space.

Sir Ridley Scott confirms the Engineers will return in Alien: Covenant 2 , the sequel (also potentially dubbed Alien: Awakening ) to this summer's continuation of the Prometheus saga. Confirming once again that the Alien: Covenant sequel is still on track, despite questionable box office performance, he reiterates that they are still writing parts of the script, with filming set to begin next year. However, in this most recent interview, Ridley actually divulged some very intriguing and exciting plot details for the sequel!

85 Fan responses to Alien: Awakening - Ridley Scott confirms Engineers will return in Alien: Covenant sequel!

Roger55 Jun-21-2017 8:46 AM Thank you Chris, where does the source of this video come from?

suwhited Jun-21-2017 8:58 AM @Chris...This is the best news I have heard in a while...Can we confirm this as gospel? If so, Alien fans rejoice!!!!!!

BlackGooDrinker Jun-21-2017 9:00 AM At this point I dont know if to believe R.S or not. He even got lost in this interview lol. Anyways I had mentioned on another thread that perhaps Origae-6 is actually the Engineers homeworld or the real "Paradise". A:C said the road to paradise begins in hell which could mean planet 4 was some kind of hell , Or perhaps their sacred place where they first seeded life (garden of eden). It will be interesting how it will play out. If we still have two movies then an all out war could possibly happen on origae 6 with david's xeno army. Then on the next film they could possibly chase david to lv 426 while he was in route to lv 223 to get more black goo?

ALIEN1979 Jun-21-2017 9:04 AM I'll wait for the release. After Prometheus and Alien Covenant I don't have any high expectations from Ridley anymore. He might be a very visual director but once he does not have good script writers, his movies are mediocre only. Hope he doesn't screw up the next Alien installment.

suwhited Jun-21-2017 9:10 AM I like the idea of this planet in AC was an outpost (albeit an important one) to the Engineers. When they find it Davidinized by their black goodness, I think they take retribution. With 2000 unlucky jokers at his disposal and a lot of time, David can concoct a lot of Xenomorphs for his private menagerie. An all out war between these XENOS and some Enigineers would be cool. This maybe leading back to LV223 while David is trying to get more of the black goodness. Still not sure how this would leads us to a single Juggernaut crash landed on LV426 with eggs in the hold, though...

Tiwaz Jun-21-2017 9:19 AM "...three or four different players coming in to investigate. One of which will be the Engineers...", hmm, Humans, Enngineers that'd be two. According to this there will be at least one other "party" involved. Was I right after all by thinking there'll be a third race. The big guns..... But alas this is a Ridders interview and prone to be unreliable. We shall see.

Chris Jun-21-2017 9:19 AM @Roger55, given the backdrop, I would say this interview took place at the press junket for the world premiere. I would assume "Mtime.com" conducted the interview, but not sure who they are. Many people tried probing Ridley for info on the sequels (myself included) with very little luck hahaha.

A L I E N 4 2 6 Jun-21-2017 9:35 AM Great news!! This is what I was hoping for for the sequel! Did someone send Ridley my letter??? Now all we need are some Deacons and I will be sold. Perhaps the Engineers concoct an army of Deacons to take on the Xenos

Roger55 Jun-21-2017 9:43 AM @Chris Thank you Chris, at least he is wearing the same jacket, LOL and yes you are right maybe is coming from "Mtime.com". I found an "untitled ALIEN" on IMDB to release in 2019 this is too long yourney to wait! http://www.imdb.com/title/tt6980596/?ref_=nm_flmg_dr_1

123Engineer Jun-21-2017 9:52 AM Wow! Great news! Really excited! Question now is: Which planet does he mean with "the planet"? The engineer's homeworld or LV426? It would be a great plottwist at the end if it would be the exact same planet. Then fans would look at the film in a very different way! However I really hope it is the engineer homeworld AND I think it is. That is what fans want. Gigeresque gigantic landscapes. Terrifying and beautiful and majestic at the same time. What does he mean with three or four different players? Marines? Another kind of engineers? God of the engineers? Another engineer community? If there will be a war between these, it will be definitely be a war of the worlds!

IndyFront Jun-21-2017 9:52 AM Hopefully Scott moves the focus from David back to the Engineers in this next one. Hopefully, the Xenomorph will turn out to have existed as another strain millions of years old, and what we see from David is a variation of that strain that forms a 'missing link' between the Xenomorphs of LV426 and the Elder Ones. Would be cool if these Elder Ones were worshiped by the Engineers, hence "I studied their ways" as David says he did in 'The Crossing'.

TheLastOfAliens Jun-21-2017 9:52 AM @Chris 'mtime.com' is a movie data website from China, similiar to IMDb.com.

FilmFan2017 Jun-21-2017 10:02 AM THIS is what Scott should have done as a follow-up to "Prometheus" and not that abysmal remake of his first film ("Covenant"). The proper sequel to "Prometheus" should have been a continuation of that story. The Engineers **and** Elizabeth Shaw. Instead of just killing both off before the damn story even began. Shame on you Ridley for bowing to fan boy pressure for "MORE ALIENS!!!".

Hudson25 Jun-21-2017 10:09 AM I think this is definitely hopeful news for this prequel series. At this point I think it's pretty evident that Ridley knows how poor AC did with the fans, and if they want to keep the franchise alive they should stick to what made it fresh and unique apart from the Alien movies and that's to follow back on the Engineers and delving more into their mythology, which was supposed to be the whole point of this series to begin with! To me the only way they're going to win the audience over is by going full on Giger with the next setting and really push the envelope with his visionary landscapes. That is what made the first Alien movie so horrifying and unsettling. The xenomorph is definitely cooked and I would prefer not to see it again but I'm afraid they're going to keep them a central focus alongside David.

IndyFront Jun-21-2017 10:14 AM Hudson25, the Alien is not "cooked" and even the guy you're quoting (Ridley Scott) changed his mind and shown that to not be the case.

Grinning & Dropping Linen Jun-21-2017 10:32 AM He says coming in to investigate so that rules out Daniels, David, Tennessee and xenomorphs...as they are already at the location to investigate. these 4 groups are coming in to investigate which could be one heck of a collision or meet up in space. i feel that there will obviously be the following: * The Engineers (the ones from Prometheus) because he clearly stated as much *More than likely Weyland-Yutani who somehow piece together what David has or is doing...although this would make the next movie take place at least 2-3 yrs after the Covenant as the time to travel to that sector of space was established in Prometheus * I feel one of the other coming to investigate could be Walter, i have high hopes that he will be included in the next installment, i really liked his character and the elements having him come to the rescue could create in another film * I hope that the next film's 4th group or faction coming to investigate is some type of high being, one that is above the engineers and very powerful, and horrific, somehow perhaps adding back some of that ancient Lovecraftian cosmic terror feel we had from the 1st installment ____________________________ I do not think one of the factions will be among the following: -it wont be some random ship full of humans because at this point in the Alien film timeline there just arent that many ships cruising around Zeta 2 Reticuli * Colonial Marines, for one that is a construct of Cameron and Ridley has avoided using most if not all Cameron's tweaks to this film universe. Ok let's say he does include them but the Colonial Marines had never heard of this type of creature in Aliens. Of course it could have been a Black Ops mission so only the ones that went knew about so it remained a secret. But the main reason they wont be one of the (4) factions is this, and its a bigee, the Colonial Marines they didn't really exist at this point in time because this is several (7-9) decades before colonization really had starting occurring throughout the universe, thus no actual Colonial Marines. I feel that the Weyland Yutani group of the (4) investigators may have a military faction with them but they will not be separate. -__________ So : The Engineers The Ancient Cosmic Higher Power Weyland Yutani Walter i think that would be awesome and explosive if the 4 groups were those.

MU/TH/UR Jun-21-2017 10:35 AM I really believed that he was dumping the engineers and A:C was the last time we saw them. I'm glad I was wrong.

Patient Leech Jun-21-2017 10:38 AM A:C sucked. So I have dropped all excitement for any more sequels. I think Ridley ruined it by trying to "please" the loud and annoying 'fans' who complained about there not being any "classical" xenos in Prometheus. I hate to say it, but A:C is seriously a POS.

Hudson25 Jun-21-2017 10:40 AM @ IndyFront, Ridley himself even stated the beast was done in an interview back in 2014 which is why he centered this whole premise on the Engineers and not the Alien. Ridley should have stuck to his guns and not compromised his vision by caving into a segment of fan boys who wanted the monster. When the xenomorph showed up at the end of AC, it did not leave an impression with me whatsoever. Not to mention how quickly they glossed over its' incubation,maturation into an adult and killed off so quickly just to shoe horn it in the movie felt like a disservice to the creature itself. It was poorly handled.

Hudson25 Jun-21-2017 10:44 AM @ Patient Leech, I feel the same way as you my friend. Despite the negative reviews I kept reading before I saw it for myself, I tried to go in with an open mind, but in the end the masses were right. It is not a good movie.

El Dude Jun-21-2017 10:50 AM I thought AC was a 6/10, however it would have benefited from more plot. And when I say plot, I mean being more explicit on how things tie together/continue from the last film, the past films, and hint where things are going. For example, killing Shaw with little to no explanation and David outright bombing the Engineers...you had to guess as to motive or go dig online. David's motive to bomb the engineers is boiled down to "oh he hates them" but...why? Whats the motivation there? This literally kills the connection to previous film (Shaws death) and current movie (bombing the engineers). Glossing over plot/story points isnt creating mystic or fear like only showing fragments of the Alien (ie the mood from the first film). Its too broad and relies on folks to assume a lot for the sake of movie run time. I will say the ending of AC did help provide an exciting lead on as to what could happen next. And the action and gore was pretty damn good. My hope is that the next movie really fleshes out the engineers in more detail but also is more precise with connecting the pieces through out each film. If a movie is engaging a 3hr run time wont matter. I will say if James C helps out or was to direct another Alien movie...shut up and take my money.

IndyFront Jun-21-2017 11:09 AM The Xenomorph needs to be done justice, that much we agree on. And anything can be terrifying if done right. Look at children.

FilmFan2017 Jun-21-2017 11:17 AM "Alien:Covenant" was terrible. The characters are stupid and unlikeable. Of the new cast, I didn't care for a single actor other than Bichir. And he had absolutely nothing to work with. Waterston is serviceable but kind of dull and never steps up to be 'the next Ripley'. Fassbender is the only shining spot in this mess. Once the Xeno's show up it's paint by numbers - no suspense or tension, just a fast moving alien enters the room, kills someone, leaves - repeat. I also don't like that there is a chestburster scene that is so comical I thought I was watching "Spaceballs" (and just because technology has changed doesn't mean we need to redefine the LOOK of something that has been consistent up to this point). Honestly the last 15 minutes felt like parody to me - so familiar yet done so poorly. I was counting down the days to this one, but I would never watch it again.

joylitt Jun-21-2017 12:20 PM They ruined the character of David making him a generic villain, and now they want to do the same with the engineers? The only way to get excited about the "news" would be knowing that none of the writers of "Covenant" will be involved in this.

Xenowarrior Jun-21-2017 12:28 PM I'm worried about this but at the same time excited. The thing that worries me, is that the production plans for the story can be completely change and the film will have a very different outcome than it was original planned like what happened with Covenant. I'm worried. I hope Ridley Scott keep on his plans for the sequels and not changing the story completely with a very different outcome.

Xenowarrior Jun-21-2017 12:28 PM I'm worried about this but at the same time excited. The thing that worries me, is that the production plans for the story can be completely change and the film will have a very different outcome than it was original planned like what happened with Covenant. I'm worried. I hope Ridley Scott keep on his plans for the sequels and not changing the story completely with a very different outcome.

Neomorph Jun-21-2017 6:32 PM Engineers arriving back to find their planet decimated. Uh-oh, the android might as well start spreading them...

airshaft_surprise Jun-21-2017 6:43 PM I have not been on here for a week or two, when i saw this the heaviness lifted, i had a hunch the engineers would be coming back in a future installment, you build something for example a house and some arse comes along and destroys it, you would want to find out who done it and tear them a new one. Who are the other players that enter the fray? I am not going to speculate, i enjoyed AC even with its flaws, i enjoyed the novel more because it expanded on the characters with out it feeling rushed.

Capt Torgo Jun-21-2017 7:39 PM Joylitt, I generally agree with you but......I don't think it matters who the writers are if Ridley Scott is allowed to insert his creative scattered thoughts on a whim here and there during filming which ultimately pollutes the film with moronic characters who speak and act in the most unbelievable ways. I want to adore the man or blame the "bug" fans but I know better than that. Prometheus was very close to being super pimp bit Covenant is just aweful as others here have stated. Unless Fox can keep him on a tight leash to only follow the agreed upon script it's gonna be a wait for film reviews before I spend a dime. He really fumbled big time on AC. Glad some here enjoyed it at least.

Roger55 Jun-21-2017 7:44 PM I see several players to take set in Origae-6. My bet would be: Weyland & David (The Replicant)

Engineers (military-humanoid)

The Beast (?) (What kind of bug?)

Another Human Mission (on spacerocket-ship or starship) and please no more Walter!

Kethol Jun-21-2017 10:15 PM This is not a recent interview. It was actually recorded back in early May in the post-premier press junket. That was BEFORE that mass release, so they did not have all the fan reaction yet. Take what Ridley says here with a grain of salt, since they may be going a completely different direction now. Although, I hope he stays on track with what he described.

BigDave Jun-22-2017 6:12 AM Well i replied to this in the other related Topic and so i will just re-post it here.. well as it was a view replies... i will just link the Topic HERE So i will just summarize a few things.. Can we take RS Words for it? He does have a habit of saying one thing and then another... his other interview he kind of hinted towards the Franchise now has to follow HIM The Xenomorph, and there wont be no Prequels to the Prequels or Parallel Stories as far as on Screen we can no doubt accept... but it will continue from AC onto the next and then leading to Alien in a clear Time Line 2104 === 2122 with other movies taking place between that Time Line and also being about ONE THREAD which is the Xenomorph, which they can Evolve.... This Interview pushed me towards thinking the Engineers are done for and AC was a attempt to brush them under the Carpet, The ADF Prequel Novel Synopsis which is not about the Engineers or David and Shaws journey and time from Prometheus to Alien Covenant... also seemed to indicate they are brushing the Engineers away.... And when i saw a Topic on Here showing the Crashed Scorpion Ship and Wayne Haags comments about how it had a Dust Up with the Juggernaught helped to Seal the Engineers Fate as far as None could have escaped. HOWEVER..... This interview seems to indeed hint the Engineers are still at play, which is interesting and prior to this surfacing, i had mentioned a number of times that the way the Engineers was dealt with is a disappointment and ideally they have to be brought back into it... as while David can create the Xenomorph... its going to be a Harder Pill to Swallow if the Space Jockey was a Human or Synthetic... but then it could be just a Oversight.. but it would be better if it was a Engineer/Elder. so this comment by Ridley Scott does give a lot of hope, and i have always speculated that Paradise is more like the Paradise of the Bible. *Place where GOD does not come from *Place where Angels do not come from *The Cradle of Civilization (Creation of Man/Humanoids) *Place where the Garden of Eden was. *The Place watched over and Guarded by Cherubim Angels So and as i have covered often, this to me explains why those beings did not have much Technology and maybe looked not so Engineers. I would then say the LV-223 Engineers was either a Part of the caste of Watchers who was to see over the Creation on Paradise and Rebelled... then sub-created or tried to subjugate Human Creation. Or these Engineers was at some point those beings on Paradise used for Sacrifices for some reason (which i think was a attempt to Re-create Females to Procreate with).

BigDave Jun-22-2017 6:25 AM As far as Origae-6 and LV-426.... Who knows as RS can change Lore/Canon as he pleases, but the current status quo is LV-426 and LV-223 are in the same System, and indeed around the same Planet.... but regardless we need to look at Origae-6 taking 7 years to get too and we also dont know how long the Covenant had been traveling for.. it would be anything up to 5 years (Weyland-Yutani Merger) but i would assume at least 18 Months as it was stated the Ship Recharges every now and again so had to have already used up its Energy Once. So Origae-6 cant be LV-426 if they go his route though, it would appear FOX/RS do not care for Canon/Lore or Plot Holes. Also i would find Origae-6 being a World that is connected to the Engineers a bit to much of a Coincidence... even if this World is another World the Engineers had Seeded too. I just find had the Covenant not had that Accident... or if they chose to ignore Oram and Proceed to their Designation then having Origae-6 already inhabited would be a bit too much on the nose. As far as those wanting to see a HR GIGER Alien World they will be disappointed... while yes the Engineers Bio-Tech looks similar its not quite there... it is open for the Hierarchy of the Engineers to have had their Technology Stolen by the Engineers this depends on who the Hierarchy is and how many levels it has... or that this Hierarchy (Elders) Stole this Technology at some point in the Ancient Past Even so i am not sure where they obtained this from will be as HR Giger as Fans would hope... It appears the Black Goo is obtained by a Parasitic Organism the Engineers had discovered and re-engineered.... but we are shown this Lacks Bio-Mechanical Features and this Element has not yet been introduced. Which means TWO Outcomes. Well 3... 1) Synthetic Material has to play a Role and become incorporated into the Experiments and so a Android will play a role in this. 2) Those Engineers who are coming (or another Race) posses Bio-Mechanical Technology that gets infected with the Black Goo or Xenomorph that David has already created, which causes a Juggernaught to be infected and Mutate to the Derelict. 3) As above but the other Engineers/Beings Technology is more Organic than the Juggernauts. And the Xenomorph gets its Bio-Mechanical Traits from this more Organic Technology.

BigDave Jun-22-2017 6:35 AM The Players is interesting... as i mentioned on the other thread.. 1) We have the Engineers, or indeed those Superior beings above them who come back to Paradise to find it wasted, and then they will embark on a mission to find those responsible. 2) The W-Y company would know of the Covenants Destination, and maybe after David sends that signal... they would investigate/intercept. The other Players is the Mystery component as its a number that could come into play... So the 3-4th players could be 1-2 of these a) The AI so MUTHUR and explore a kind of Skynet type Scenerio where AI is evolving behind the Scenes with its own Agenda. b) A Company/Persons who had tried to sabotage the Covenant Mission in the first place (the Prequel Book to AC will cover) who/why would attempt this... and maybe this Faction could come into play to intercept the Covenant or head off to its destination. The next 2 are more unlikely c) Another Race in the Franchise is exposed, who are not Engineers or Elders, but different... how do they become involved? are they the inhabitants of Origae-6 d) Origae-6 is already inhabited by a Humanoid Race or another Race/Life-form created by the Engineers. We could also wonder if a Player would be the Marines... but surely this would fit as Part of Option 2) A few things we need to Remember here is RS comments about the other movies.... he referred them to Shoot-em-ups. So he is no Fan of having Aliens being shown running around in large numbers killing Humans while being killed by Human Marines and Mercs etc... if this is what RS feels strong about then it could help paint a picture to what limits he is willing to go with the Next Movie.

Thoughts_Dreams Jun-22-2017 7:54 AM It will be interesting to see what Alien Awakening will be. Hopefully they will keep it more like Alien Covenant and less like Prometheus. Keep it closer to the Xeno, develop the connection between the Engineers and the Xeno. Hopefully they won’t be in the next on as much as they were in Prometheus because that would be lame. If they shall show us the Engineer culture then I hope that it will be like some sort of Roman empire and that they look at themselves as being colorizers of planets and that they can create life on other planets using something close to the goo. When the life-forms that they have created being if it is intelligent life if they get out of hand according to the Engineers they drop goo or something related to the Xeno to wipe the slate clean to start over. Look at the engineers as having a part of their society dedicated to something like biological warfare. Be like a very authoritarian and military minded culture. Maybe they try to conquer other cultures and use the Xeno or something similar (the goo?) to win? For them to be nearly as interesting as the Xenos I think something like this is needed especially if they want to scare us with the Engineers otherwise it won’t work, for me at least. Make them after an idea of a benevolent dictator as some might have an idea of – they give us life but in order to live mankind must be their slaves otherwise they will try to commit genocide against mankind with goo but sometimes things go wrong (David against the Engineers in AC). They must be a lot better explained than what they were made to look like in Prometheus because that was bad. I would rather not have them as a creator of mankind but if they already are according to Scott them let them go to war with humanity because they created us or found us, decided to be our dictators, mankind rebelled against their roman empire so now they keep mankind as slaves and use the Xenos against those that try to rebel. As far as their army or what ever, take a look at this for some sort of understanding what I am talking about. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8buh5A70loA I don’t mean that they shall copy it, I am talking about it compared to scale of the army. Make it more aggressive and action-oriented. Think of it like an image to convey the feeling like “We have this aim and we are totally serious about it. Don’t mess with us.” I hope that they will make the Engineers more like that if they really need to explain it further because they were not scary at all in Prometheus. There are probably people on this board that are better writers than I am, I was just trying to give an example of what I am talking about. At the same time, they can’t make it like in the Lord of the Ring with the Orch army or what ever because it will just come off as cartoonish. “Could this be setting up for a clash between Engineers and Aliens? An all out war between David's army of Xenomorphs and the vengeful Engineer race pursuing him?” A clash between the Engineers and David, no thanks. Having it be like a roman empire against another would be very bad. Maybe it could fit into another genre but not in the Alien movies. Please don’t make it like that now that Covenant was an improvement. I am sorry but that to me would probably make AvP look like an Oscar winner. My hope is that the Engineers are related to the SJ in some way (like long distant relatives) but I don’t want the SJ to be one of them. I would be disappointed if the SJ is an Engineer because of how they were in Prometheus. Let Scott handle the visuals but keep him away from the script. It seems to me that he is a visual guy but not a story writer. No script to the Alien movies that I have read this far (I have read various scripts on the www) have had Scott’s name on it, there might be a reason for that. The Engineers could be interesting but I think that there is a bigger chance for it to be really bad rather than the chance that it will be really good but Prometheus started the problem. 123 Engineer: “However I really hope it is the engineer homeworld AND I think it is. That is what fans want.” I disagree that it should be their home planet because if the movie sucks then it would make LV-426 look silly. Prometheus has already given Alien enough trouble as it is. Maybe LV-426 could be something where they crash landed on their way to something but to make it their home planet would be lame keeping in mind how Prometheus was and the risk of the movie sucking if they put the Engineers in it. IndyFront: “Hopefully Scott moves the focus from David back to the Engineers in this next one. Hopefully, the Xenomorph will turn out to have existed as another strain millions of years old, and what we see from David is a variation of that strain that forms a 'missing link' between the Xenomorphs of LV426 and the Elder Ones.” At least he should focus on the humans and the Xeno, less on the Engineer and very much less on David compared to AC. I don’t say that AC was bad but there were too much focus on David even though Fassbender did his role well.

Nick Neon Jun-22-2017 8:29 AM Is there anyone out there who just LOVES the movie as much as I do? I saw it 5 times in theaters, have it preordered on Amazon, bought the novelization AND the Art Book. The film is not perfect, but no film is and ultimately all of my TOP FAVE films are not considered perfect films by general audiences, but they were perfect for me... Just wondering if there's anyone out there who just fanboyed as hard as I did for Covenant and doesn't have "low expectations" for Awakening?? Am I the only one who feels like this movie was made perfectly for me? If Ridley and I are the only ones in love with this film, I suppose that's good enough for me. Cannot wait for Awakening.

Roger55 Jun-22-2017 8:55 AM “[It’s] being written now,” Scott said. “There’ll be three or four different players coming in to investigate, one of which will be the Engineers arriving back to find their planet decimated. I think those ships come and go on regular intervals. I see them as the gardeners of space. Where we go next is obvious. We’re gonna actually go to the planet. In so doing… I’m not going to tell you the story!” This is the context of the video in general. I can assume that they are still undone, but it suggests that the planet will probably be Origae-6. There is a (lost) video on youtube (I can not find it) that explained that he want to connect Alien: Covenant 2 with the crashed Juggernaut on Alien (1979) also this info was coming from the World Premiere.

Lawrence of Arabia Jun-22-2017 9:03 AM @Nick Neon I love Alien Covenant as well (also bought all the nice merch and can't stop thinking about it lol), wouldn't change a thing. It was a return to form for the series and an excellent sequel to Prometheus. People are just impatient and want the whole story all at once. I knew the Engineers weren't finished yet and we'll probably get more Shaw through flashbacks as she is very important to David. Really cannot wait for Awakening!

Snake Jun-22-2017 12:11 PM @Kethol Thank you! Really wished it was an interview that took place AFTER the release of Covenant but damn... if this article was true, we would be guaranteed to have a (superior) sequel, but it seems it's anybody's guess now what's going to happen next. What a kick in the nuts, what a weird franchise...love it! :)

Brian51 Jun-22-2017 1:41 PM Seriously people. This guy is ridiculous and his little tidbits of details to a story he appears to be making up in the fucking interview are tired and lame. "There will be three or four different players coming in to investigate. One of which will be the Engineers arriving back to find their planet decimated. I think those ships come and go on regular intervals." I think? If you dont know why should I care. I can make up a better storyline in the time it takes to shit. These are characters in HIS MOVIE...and he doesnt know what they will do next? Ugh. Shaw should have pushed him into that big fachugger in Prometheus. And yes we already had a facehugger so David created nothing. Bye.

Capt Torgo Jun-22-2017 2:16 PM I vote Brian51 as the new president of Alien universe and I will hold Ridley by a leash so he does not cuck up Brian's story when he's done taking his dump. I wonder if he's drunk/high on pain pills on set or just in these interviews because he knows what a turd AC is? How about he is "cooked" when he is allowed to tinker with shit.

Kethol Jun-22-2017 2:21 PM Brian51 - You realize Ridley does not create the storyline or write these films don't you? He and Fox execs hire WRITERS to do this. Ridley has no story credit on any of these movies. He directs them. John Logan is writing the script for the next one. Ridley has only seen a 10 page draft, and has said it is evolving and he does not know where it will end.

IndyFront Jun-22-2017 10:56 PM @ Thoughts_Dream I agree with most of what you say, focusing on the Protomorph may be the way to go, and then introduce this form of self-aware biotechnology that @Big_Dave alluded at, and have it function as the new threat. It would be like a planet-killer superorganism that assimilates and becomes entire ecosystems what you would imagine as if mother nature herself had somehow become infuriated. Then it infects one of David's Protomorphs, and we get the Titular Biomechanoid/Gigermorph introduced as the final enemy/Big Bad. It should then kill Daniels and proceed to rip David's head off... only this time he should crush it and smile.

Nick Neon Jun-23-2017 12:54 PM @LawrenceOfArabia Right??? I trust Ridley knows what he is doing. And he directed Covenant like he was trynna pay bills. A man his age has nothing to prove. I only wish this film were longer by 20 minutes. That's my only complaint. I hope the blu-ray comes with a 3.5 hour making of like Prometheus did. :D

djamelameziane Jun-23-2017 1:02 PM Ridley : "I've lost the plot" . Sad but true ... that basically sums up thus whole situation. Who is in charge of the story then? New writers each film so it gets pulled in different directions. A director who unfortunately is a bit old and also has not plotted out this universe. A legendary director none the less probably adding to the problem. Surrounded by yes men and no one telling it straight... he's become an island cut off from critical intervention i guess. If only he humbled up and got a stronger support in the way of continuity and someone to grow the universe out and make it solid. Wow so they are engineers? :O . What happened to make them so puny ! I'm still wondering if we will see a next one... :( Hopefully we see the next one and finally it becomes epic elders... demi god... Weyland yutani and engineers. Possibly a new race...

LVBank Jun-23-2017 1:36 PM @Nick Neon @ Lawrence of Arabia I also liked AC - I think somewhere someone wrote that 20 minutes were edited out of the movie and, maybe this is my hopes, that there will be a version of it with those 20minutes back in. MAn do i really want to see that version. I loved the blurray of Aliens with the longer version where Cameron stated that "this is the way I wanted the movie to be" very anti-establishment of him, and i actually liked it better-sentry guns! For some reason -Please correct me no problem- but dont the writers have more say in the story that Ridley? Isnt it Ridleys job to bring the story that he gets to life-and make it look and feel good? If so i think he has done his job- Prometheus and Covenant looked great! and no Baby Huey Aliens like in the end of Alien Resurrection. I peg THAT as the lowest point in the franchise-so terrible. not including AVP or AVPR

BK1 Jun-23-2017 1:40 PM 1000s of eggs in Alien derelict - which Kane comments on. In the Director's cut of Alien, Brett is transforming or morphing into an egg. The Alien Covenant ship has David on board with two embryonic face huggers, human embryos and 2000 people on board. Is the Derelict eggs outcome in Alien, then, a mass Brett like morphing episode of 2000 people: a result of David's unleashing the beasts (embryonic facehuggers) and xenomorph cycle - plus some Engineer narrative as well? Is this the direction for Awakening and any other subsequent sequel backing into Alien?

BK1 Jun-23-2017 1:58 PM It is the field of eggs, after all, in Alien that presses play for the ensuing horror. I guess, then, that the backdoor Ridley Scott has set-up for this field of eggs in the derelict must come from the Covenant 2000 plus crew. Kane's egg number comment and the need for the Covenant narrative to highlight the number of people on board kind of adds up! On another note, we all need to see Prometheus, AC, Awakening, another sequel (?) and Alien as chapters to be connected and back away from this box office analysis and demonising of AC. The latter works, it makes sense. David after all was in the poster for Prometheus, not Shaw. He is the Promethean thief. He is an A (L) I (EN) with a box of matches. The match is lit and Ridley Scott knows what he is doing with the franchise. Alien has always been the dark side of 2001 with its monolith and HAL. This is Scott's ambition for the franchise.

Nick Neon Jun-23-2017 3:39 PM @LVBank The writer absolutely can have control over the direction of the story in a film. But in this case, Ridley Scott has always been very clear about where he wants this new prequel series to go story-wise and has then hired writers to put his ideas down on paper. I read that he even storyboards the entire film so he knows what every frame and shot will look like before he gets on set. He's a very hands-on director. Which is why these films look so beautiful and full of detail. AHHHHHHH just writing about this has me remembering the Cargo Lift sequence. I love that escape from the city so much between the birth of the Protomorph and Daniels being badass to the homage to Cameron's Queen Alien Vs Power Loader moment with Daniels controlling the crane! Love so much about this film. And I seriously hope there will be a longer director's cut of this film to help flesh out some moments for the characters. Hell I would watch a 3 hour Alien movie no problem. I'm so damn curious where they take the next film, like what happens to Daniels and Tennessee, what awaits them on Origae 6 and what the hell is this demented android David going to do with the colonists...

Nathan Adler Jun-23-2017 5:36 PM @FilmFan2017: I blame the fan community more for berating Prometheus, a film I loved because it finally began exploring answers to questions I likewise had after seeing the first Alien. Where were those fan boys most vocal against Ridley's handling of Prometheus so Fox was able to force him to adjust his direction, since it's them we should be going after? I hope they weren't on this forum!?

K-Theory Jun-24-2017 12:22 AM I know Origae-6 can't be LV-426, but it seems that the film series might be just heading that way. It's unlikely, but something crazy like this might happen: David has "2000 jokers" to experiment on. He mass produces eggs and loads it onto an Engineer ship on LV-223 and lands on Origae-6, the Engineer's homeworld, which later turns out to be LV-426. They have a war and the planet is destroyed. In this way LV-426 becomes a barren wasteland. Ridley Scott said something like the "War of the Worlds" was the goal. And the poster for Alien: Covenant suspiciously had nothing to do with the film ... the first one, at least ...

Nathan Adler Jun-24-2017 2:26 AM @BigDave: As for Synthetic Material needing to play a role, recall LV-223’s atmosphere was silicone. If we are based off their DNA how was the Engineer able to walk from the crashed Juggernaut without a mask? And is this why LV-223 was chosen as a 'laboratory', because they were using silicone to try and combine mech with bio? Remember computers are run on silicon, and the synthetics are just highly advanced computers. So might this provide some clues?

LaszloPanaflex Jun-24-2017 9:00 AM Sounds similar to an idea that I posted on ScreenAnarchy 25 days ago... "...I want to see something totally different. I would like to see the introduction of a master race of Engineers (or as Jon Spaiths called them, Grand Engineers). I want their planet to be a Giger-esque nightmare landscape (no more of these sweeping terrestrial vistas as seen in the last two films). I want to see David breed a pack of xenomorphs using the colonists in hypersleep aboard the Covenant, and take them to the Grand Engineers planet to show them that he too can create not only life...but the "perfect organism". Of course, he'll have an ulterior motive as well... And to add more fuel to the fire, we have a heavily armed search party (a squadron of Collonial Marines who'll go on their first ever "bug hunt", perhaps?) that was dispatched to ascertain the fate of Peter Weyland and the crew of the Prometheus. They will end up on the Grand Engineers planet, and all hell will break loose. In addition, I'd prefer them to reveal the Space Jockey as an actual alien creature...not a suit. Basically retcon the retcon. This would be more of a sci-fi/action film that could appeal more to general audiences and fans alike. Probably the best route to go."

ALIEN1979 Jun-24-2017 9:39 AM @k theory Again, Prometheus wasn't hated because it did not have any Xenomorph but the storytelling and some characters were acting simply not convincing. While David is so eager to learn more about the Engineers and the black goo, how come he did not check about the baby trilobite that shaw gave c section birth? The captain suddenly knows all about lv223 being a military outpost for WMD instead of assuming it in this direction. Milburn acts like a stupid moron and not like a biologist, fifield who is supposed to be a geologist and in charge to map the installation gets lost? Then lots of deleted scenes which would have made the movie make more sense were not considered. It was a movie that could have been great with some minor tweaks. Alien Covenant however feels like a lackluster movie by Ridley. He ignores the center point of Prometheus, displays the Xenomorph rather like in Alien Resurrection than in Alien or Alien 3, and focuses way too much on David while we still dont understand why he wipes out the engineers without communicating with them at all. The nostromo crew, colonial marines, the convicts and even the betty crew and auriga crew had more personality and characterization than quite every character in Alien Covenant.

LegendeV Jun-24-2017 10:20 AM Let 's imagine that the engineer discovers the bodies of the robot Walter and Shaw, they may resurrect them with their strange technology to interrogate them (as in the film Prometheus with the head of the engineer).



David has declaimed the anger of engineers and may be creators of the engineers. Will ingerniers punish David by capturing him and manipulating his robotic stucture?

JakeBranson Jun-25-2017 8:48 AM My only thought at the moment: Bring. Back. Shaw. Or at least pay her character the respect it deserves by showing how she died in a flashback. I would have more respect for A:C if Ridley took some time to show that: 1) Dr. Shaw was already doomed after having the black goo spawn the trilobyte inside her, and her looking sickly was a sign that she was already on her way out. 2) David's respect for Shaw led to a merciful death, where Shaw wanted David to end her life. This could explain why David is crying right before he releases the payload on the Engineers. 3) After her death, David (in a sick way) paid the ultimate tribute to Shaw's desire to create life by having her be the blue print for his alien creations. If this happens I would be okay with Shaw's death...I just simply cannot accept that despite his admiration for her and after all she did to help him he just murders her out of "necessity". I'm sure others completely disagree, but this is what I choose to believe. :)

Blackwinter-witch Jun-25-2017 3:59 PM Gonna have a LOT of thinking to do regarding the follow-up to ALIEN: Manticore. Timeline issues for me state that Manticore could well arrive at 'Paradise' in time to encounter some seriously aggrieved Engineers, and I'm not sure how to handle that. LOTS of thinking to do...

gnawstick9 Jun-25-2017 8:48 PM The name of our android, David, can't be lost on us...is this potential showdown a retelling of the David/Goliath allegory?

ignorantGuy Jun-25-2017 11:36 PM What I really do hope that RS and crew will "ressurect" ( in a nonsadistic way) Shaw (so they can have a Jesus figure in there, because they wanted one in Prometheus). At least, that is would pay to see (and well in could help Ms Rapace's career, as it is in a rut). @JakeHanson44 Do you really believe the mercy kill stuff? Did you not see how many eggs David has? Do you think that could have been generated with that tissue. He tortured her for years and that's that.

RZA Jun-27-2017 1:46 PM I was hoping this would be the case. Funny... I remember vividly all the crying and whining about how there were "No Aliens!" in Prometheus and that was also another reason why it didn't resonate well with many. Point? I was trying to introduce my friend to AC but said he should watch Prometheus first since its a continuation of the story. We looked at a trailer and all he said was, no Aliens? Looks wack! So, sadly there was a large group of people who just wanted Alien action and gore... Now we get AC and amazingly there are just as many people who complained at Prometheus that were now complaining that really wanted more of the thought provoking elements Prometheus introduced, more of Shaw and her journey for answers. Us fans can be something else I swear...

colonialsoldier Jun-28-2017 7:57 AM @Carter Burke - you hit it on the nail about getting excited prematurely. Again, IMHO, it is not an Alien movie if the movie is just focused on the engineers and I think the engineers piece spoils what was built from Alien 1 to 3. I been a fan since I saw Alien in the movie theater in 1979 but I am so disappointed in their 21st Century movies.

Necronom 4 Jun-28-2017 2:32 PM @Djamelameziane - "Ridley : "I've lost the plot" . Sad but true ... that basically sums up thus whole situation. Who is in charge of the story then? New writers each film so it gets pulled in different directions. A director who unfortunately is a bit old and also has not plotted out this universe. A legendary director none the less probably adding to the problem. Surrounded by yes men and no one telling it straight... he's become an island cut off from critical intervention i guess. If only he humbled up and got a stronger support in the way of continuity and someone to grow the universe out and make it solid." Agreed. IF he made it so the "engineers" we see in Covenant were just another race of humanoids that were created by the "Elders" and David wasn't the progenitor of the original aliens and the "real engineers" world was Gigeresque; then I would forgive him for Covenant. But, I held hope for Covenant and was bitterly disappointed. I will not make the same mistake again!

Dr. Curt Connors Jun-29-2017 12:35 PM By now everyone should have realized that Covenant is complete and utter garbage and there should be no more Alien movies. The underwhelming box office domestically should have put the nail in the coffin. The general public don't give a shit about this universe.

IndyFront Jun-29-2017 12:47 PM @Dr. Curt Connors that is a bit extreme. It isn't the universe that is the problem, but FOX.

French alien Jun-29-2017 1:11 PM Hi, my name is Ben, i'm French, sorry a don't speak english, I use the translator. I have my small idea of scenario, concerning what takes place between Prometheus and Covenant. And especially concerning the fate of Shaw which could be, something quite different without changing the weft of the history of Covenant.It is possible that during their journey (David and Shaw), taking place after prologue ( The crossing), during their trip, they could that one of the vessels mother of engineers (visible at the very beginning of Prometheus)Tie up(Accost) the juggernaut that experimental David and that the engineers land(turn up) to see what takes place and at the same time woken Shaw of the cryosleep and the removed of David's hands.Then he(it) is possible q the engineers try(tempt) of create a clone of Shaw for miscellaneous reason. David by love in verse Shaw tries to free(release) her(it) from the influence of the engineers, but gets back only the clone Of Shaw and made a success has to run away from the vessel mother. Then we arrive at the passage or David arrives on the planet of the false engineers) and sends his bombs(sprays) of black liquid on the inhabitants (Alien Covenant) by revenge Not to have to get back real Shaw. So when Walter discovers the body of Shaw have could imagined that is only the clone of Shaw of which David tried his experiences. In the end maybe That doctor Shaw is always alive in taken with the engineers and that we shall see again(revise) her(it) after. Here is my hypothesis.



BK1 Jun-30-2017 1:55 AM @RZA: Currently listening to the AC soundtrack - great. I agree with the points you make. Alien and all subsequent reinventions divide more than generate consensus. But I guess this is the fun of debate, i.e. no two arguments are the same. Having circulated the odd thought here and there on this forum, my general feeling is that a majority here, no doubt myself included, tend to talk in absolutes, whereby discussions become never ending, as one absolute opinion fires-up another. My absolute opinion and understanding of Scott's vision for Alien subsidiaries is one centred time and time again on a Lovecraftian cosmicism: i.e., the unfathomable and threatening dangers that lie 'beyond' each species' inner and exterior selves. My 'absolute' interpretation, then, and consumption of all things Alien is from this standpoint. As my background and training is an academic one, rather than your typical 'Aliens' fanboy centric viewpoint, I guess I am with the niche few who have unpacked where Scott is truly going with his continuation of the Alien saga. I know this all probably sounds rather pretentious and slightly arrogant, on my behalf, and will alienate many here; but isn't that how this forum functions: one absolute opinion antagonises another. On another note, Carpenter's The Thing was released the same year as ET. The former was big budget at the time, with mixed reviews and a modest box office take-home, the latter a big budget success. The Thing is, in academic film circles, considered a masterpiece and has transcended the 1982 death knell proffered by critics and audiences alike from its shaky original year of release. Alien, Prometheus and AC are dark, intellectual and visually dynamic creations. Like The Thing - post Alien - and inspired by Lovecraft, your mass popcorn audience are not going to stomach it - they want an Aliens type experience, not necessarily a David and Walter MACHINATION.

Movie fan Jul-01-2017 9:07 AM The alien origin story is already ruined by David, all i care about is who are the engineers.

Raven5wood Sep-12-2017 8:20 PM So... please correct me if I'm wrong but we don't really know for sure that Walter is dead right? We never actually see David kill Walter before he gets on the Covenant ship? He could have temporarily injured him like he had before without knowing it. Walter has been "upgraded" right? He very well could be alive on the Engineer planet. Just a thought. I could be wrong. I've only seen Covenant twice. I might have missed a scene or hint that confirms Walter's death.

Christi Sep-30-2017 2:17 PM I really enjoyed watching convenant the Dvd certainly filled alot of gaps watching it countless times i love the build up when they landed the way the soundtrack picks up as the slaughter begins. I do hope walter returns i cannot believe he is dead.

C03koan Oct-16-2017 3:14 PM To me they way the movie ends somehow relates to Alien 2. Forgot the name of the planet but only one single child survived and everybody else was dead. What if David landed on that planet and planted the xenomorph embryos into all those colonists?

C03koan Oct-16-2017 3:14 PM To me they way the movie ends somehow relates to Alien 2. Forgot the name of the planet but only one single child survived and everybody else was dead. What if David landed on that planet and planted the xenomorph embryos into all those colonists?

archiwise Oct-24-2017 5:58 PM All I want is classic looking scenery, in more horror genre not sci-fi, no big brany humans that give no shit abot anything and do theirs weird shit that I’m not interested, just no epic, just desperate lonely fear in isolation, dark space around, shining flares in wet and burning ruins of a ship, cold blooded killer named Xenomorph walking around and wipe off all the crew except one officer that brings the alien to whatfuck kinda death (ish).

Lawdawe Nov-07-2018 10:34 PM so ive only just seen covenant in 2018 but ive been watching alot of theories that ties into alien, and the rest of the films in alien there is a robot (ash) who got recently transfered to the crew and that already knows about the alien and is on a mission to take a sample back at what ever cost to the crew... now this doesnt make sense because no one knows about the aliens and black goo besides aliens and david. so how does it get back to the company and for them to purposely seek out the the alien, for this to be the case it seems like david has to go back to earth and some how influence the company to chase after the aliens so he can make the queen, which i havent seen but pretty sure "alien resurrection" they make a queen. but that movie is based 200 years after "alien 3" so if they get david to make it back to the company and take over and then he works in the shadows all the way to Resurrection to finally create the queen.

BigDave Nov-08-2018 8:55 AM "If we are based off their DNA how was the Engineer able to walk from the crashed Juggernaut without a mask? " @Nathan Sorry for no reply, indeed we do see the Engineers can survive certainly for much longer than a Human Can (2-3 Minutes tops) on the Surface of LV-223. The reason for this is up for debate, but certainly would paint the picture that the Space Jockey Suits act more as a Bio-Hazard Suit (Protect Engineers from Contamination and Protect their Experiments from being Contaminated by themselves). I think the only thing i can think of as a good explanation to WHY those Engineers can Survive LV-223 Atmosphere is down to the Genetically Engineered Pressure Suits. The Engineers Suits seems to seamlessly blend in with his Hands and Head, but the area of the Neck (contains Trachea, Laryngeal and Thyroid) area covers our Wind Pipes, seems to have like a Gill (Fish) look to the Engineers part of the suit that Merges with the Head. Does this AID the ability to breath the Hostile LV-223 Atmosphere?

BigDave Nov-08-2018 9:22 AM @C03koan



I think the set up was to EVENTUALLY end up on LV-426 but it appears if everything went to PLAN that Ridley Scott intends that we are AT LEAST 2 Movies from arriving at the Derelict and its Cargo arriving on LV-426 RS has mentioned the NEXT movie would not be about the Xenomorphs (this does not rule out them) just it wont center around those Organisms, RS said the next movie would revolve more about AI (he also tries to tell us that AI is not limited to just Robotics). It seems he is indicating that David and the Covenant will arrive at a Planet and then there will be 3-4 incoming Parties to that Planet (3-4 maybe meaning that ONE Party are connected/similar or that one Party contains some Element with a different Agenda). so that means the 3rd/4th Party are. *TWO kinds of Engineers. *Human Ship with Synthetics (either Hidden or have Hidden Agenda *Human Ship that has a Element with a Hidden/Secret Agenda *Walter taken for a Journey by the Engineers. We can already confirm from his comments that TWO of those Parties will be a Group of Engineers (but which kind?) and no doubt a incoming Human Ship (but how many?). I am going to assume that ONE of those TWO will be classed as containing a 3rd Party and then we just need another Party which again could be another Human Ship, another Type of Engineers or something else. The Question that RS had asked is what kind of a World would David Create? i would assume from this that David arrives at his Destination and spends sometime there before any incoming Parties Turn up. We have to remember ALIEN takes place over 17 years after the ENDING of Alien Covenant. If Planet 4 is not too far from LV-223 (Near the Zeta 2 Reticuli system) as it appears the Covenant took about a year to get to the area it suffered its Malfunction due to the Neutrino Burst/Solar Storm. Then we can assume that the Covenant would take just MONTHS (maybe less) to arrive at LV-223/LV-426, its indicated the company would not receive Davids Messages for some time. So If he was to go to LV-223/426 then he could have been on this WORLD for 2-3 years before the company would ever ARRIVE. His Message at the end of Alien Covenant (as Walter) was to inform the Company that the Covenant is continue with its Mission to Origae-6 which would take 7 years 4 Months to Reach. It could be that David is either going to Origae-6 or he wishes to make the company think he is going to Origae-6 to put them off the Track.... and he goes to LV-223 instead. However NO soon as the Advent Message is received it would not take the Company so long to arrive at where ever David is going (if he is going to LV-223/426) and how could this affect Davids plans to "What kind of a world would he Build" So its most likely David would be going to Origae-6 which by the time the Company get his Messages and sets off, David would have a good 2-3 years to Create whatever World he wants. And would place the Majority of the NEXT MOVIE being set around 10 years prior to ALIEN Its likely the Engineers arriving while a Incoming Human Ship is already there would set up the 3rd Act of the movie, that would then lead us to at least the 3rd Movie where i think the After-math leads to us seeing more of the Xenomorph, more of the Engineers and the Events that SET-UP how a Engineer Ship with a Cargo of Eggs ends up so close and then ON LV-426 so we are going from Planet 4 ==> Origae-6 ==> LV-223 and Finally the Derelict from LV-223 ==> LV-426 Thats how i see things Pan Out and the Space Jockey will be a Engineer (or related) who have taken Davids Xenomorph and attempted to EVOLVE it and then take it to Earth before something goes to POT!!