Things got very heated between Stephen Colbert and Anthony Scaramucci about President Trump‘s “lies” in the Mooch and Michael Avenatti‘s television debut Thursday night.

The segment began when Colbert asked both Scaramucci and Michael Avenatti their thoughts about Trump’s very outspoken lawyer Rudy Giuliani and whether or not he’s helping his client. While Avenatti thought he’s a “walking disaster,” Scaramucci thought there was “some premeditation” going on despite how “sloppy” things looked, particularly when he revealed that Trump did reimburse Michael Cohen for the payment he made to Stormy Daniels.

“I think it was very clear that a payment was made and I think going on Sean [Hannity]’s show… and releasing that information, they wanted to do that before Michael got a hold of it,” Scarmucci said.

“After long denials that no payment had ever been made,” Colbert shot back. “Admitting to a lie. You know that he lied.”

“But hold on a second,” Scaramucci responded.

“Yes or no?” Colbert pressed.

Scaramucci echoed the president’s assurance that he said he didn’t lie.

The conversation then moved on to the revelation in Trump’s legal team’s lengthy letter to Special Counsel Robert Mueller that Trump did in fact dictate the statement on behalf of Donald Trump Jr. about his Trump Tower meeting with the Russian lawyer after numerous denials of his involvement.

“That’s another lie,” Colbert declared. “Are you okay with all the lies?”

Scaramucci responded by saying he doesn’t think anyone is “okay” with lies but invoked how lying is a common practice among politicians and how previous presidents have famously done so.

“But here’s the thing,” Colbert interjected. “If you lie, there’s a consequence for having been caught. That is the foundation of public morality and ethics. If you say that he lies and that’s fine, where are we going?”

“I’m not justifying the lies,” Scaramucci defended himself. “I’m just trying to put historical context. But I’m also saying is that most people, okay, have told a lie.”

“But not about colluding with the Russian government to undermine our democracy!” Colbert exclaimed. “There’s a big difference!”

Avenatti later defended “The Mooch,” saying if he was still in the White House, the administration’s relationship with the press would be “far better” than it is today.

Watch the clip above, via CBS.

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