CHRIS UHLMANN, PRESENTER: Here is the Clarke-Dawe Solution.

BRYAN DAWE: Mr Swan, thanks for your time.

JOHN CLARKE: It's always a pleasure, Bryan, and good evening.

BRYAN DAWE: Well the High Court's blown your asylum seeker policy out the water, hasn't it?

JOHN CLARKE: They haven't blown anything out of the water, Bryan.

BRYAN DAWE: Oh, come on.

JOHN CLARKE: What they've done is clarified the position.

BRYAN DAWE: They've up-ended Government policy.

JOHN CLARKE: They haven't up-ended anything. What they've done, Bryan, is that they have made a judgment which refers to Australia's responsibilities under the UN Refugee Convention.

BRYAN DAWE: Mr Swan, are there any other UN agreements we've signed without grasping their meaning.

JOHN CLARKE: It's not just us, Bryan. Obviously the Opposition agrees completely with the Government here. Completely.

BRYAN DAWE: So you're both wrong.

JOHN CLARKE: We're not both wrong, Bryan. We're on either sides of a discussion.

BRYAN DAWE: But except on this issue, Mr Swan. You said you wanted to break the people smugglers' business model.

JOHN CLARKE: We want to break their business model.

BRYAN DAWE: Yeah. Do you think they've worked this out at Harvard, how to do that?

JOHN CLARKE: Bryan, look, what we're referring to here is that it's quite clear what these people smugglers do. It's quite clear that people smugglers make money by transporting people illegally.

BRYAN DAWE: Desperate people.

JOHN CLARKE: Desperate people illegally. Desperate people, Bryan, that's why the price is up. And they do it illegally and they take them ...

BRYAN DAWE: And you wanna stop them from doing it.

JOHN CLARKE: ... and they put them ...

BRYAN DAWE: And you wanna stop them doing it!

JOHN CLARKE: Of course we want to stop them doing it.

BRYAN DAWE: And you wanna break their business model, right?

JOHN CLARKE: That's how we're gonna - we are determined to break their business model.

BRYAN DAWE: Why not do it for nothing?

JOHN CLARKE: Provide the service ourselves?

BRYAN DAWE: Yeah. It's been done before.

JOHN CLARKE: What do you mean it's been done before?

BRYAN DAWE: Well the Irish poor were shipped out here for nothing for 20 years.

JOHN CLARKE: Bryan, they were criminals.

BRYAN DAWE: And they were criminals; that is exactly my point. These people are just homeless, terrified and have no nowhere else to go.

JOHN CLARKE: How on Earth would we go into competition with the people smugglers? How would we do it?

BRYAN DAWE: Well, why not have a ship that leaves the Gulf states once a week?

JOHN CLARKE: A ship? We provide a ship that brings people down here?

BRYAN DAWE: Sure.

JOHN CLARKE: Bryan, we'd be swamped!

BRYAN DAWE: Mr Swan, under one per cent of the world's asylum seekers comes to Australia. We're not that popular.

JOHN CLARKE: It won't be one per cent if we're providing a government-sponsored cruise down here once a week, Bryan.

BRYAN DAWE: Well do it once a month. The people smugglers'll disappear.

JOHN CLARKE: You couldn't sell that to the Australian public in a fit!

BRYAN DAWE: Your mob couldn't sell lambs to a Kiwi.

JOHN CLARKE: I beg your pardon! We're very good at selling our ...

BRYAN DAWE: Listen, you couldn't sell to the electorate a tax on super profits from foreign mining companies in a global recession with energy costs going through the roof! You're hopeless!

JOHN CLARKE: That sounds clever, Bryan.

BRYAN DAWE: No it doesn't; that's the problem, Mr Swan.

JOHN CLARKE: I mean, you think you sound clever. You don't sound very clever to me. I sound clever to me, Bryan. I'm trying to help.

BRYAN DAWE: Thanks for your time.

JOHN CLARKE: I'm trying to help.

BRYAN DAWE: Thanks for your time.

JOHN CLARKE: God, you got up the wrong side this morning, Bryan. You been to the toilet?