President Trump Donald John TrumpUS reimposes UN sanctions on Iran amid increasing tensions Jeff Flake: Republicans 'should hold the same position' on SCOTUS vacancy as 2016 Trump supporters chant 'Fill that seat' at North Carolina rally MORE phoned Rep. Mark Meadows Mark Randall MeadowsTrump reacts to Ginsburg's death: 'An amazing woman who led an amazing life' Trump carries on with rally, unaware of Ginsburg's death United Airlines, unions call for six-month extension of government aid MORE (R-N.C.) Thursday in the midst of the GOP’s hunt for a spending deal that could attract enough votes in the House to shift the risk of a shutdown to Democrats in the Senate.

The president didn’t realize he reached Meadows, a favorite ally in the House, during a meeting of the conservative Freedom Caucus, a group of 30 or so renegade lawmakers who were at that moment resisting the idea of backing a fourth stopgap spending measure.

During several conversations that afternoon, Trump made his views clear, Meadows told The Hill’s Power Politics podcast during an interview Friday in the congressman’s office.

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“He doesn’t want a shutdown,” Meadows said of the president.

“We may differ over tactics,” he added, but they agreed on that.

“He was encouraging me not to use the power of 30 votes, voting down a resolution here in the House,” explained Meadows, the chairman of the Freedom Caucus, noting twice during the interview with The Hill that the conversation with Trump was “not contentious.”

The North Carolina congressman said one of the lessons he learned following the country’s last shutdown in 2013 was that his party’s standing was “unbelievably horrible” in polls following that 16-day drama, but the brinksmanship did not cost the GOP seats in 2014.

At the time, Meadows and Texas Sen. Ted Cruz Rafael (Ted) Edward CruzVideo of Lindsey Graham arguing against nominating a Supreme Court justice in an election year goes viral Sunday shows preview: Justice Ginsburg dies, sparking partisan battle over vacancy before election Democrat on Graham video urging people to 'use my words against me': 'Done' MORE (R) were closely associated with the shutdown strategy amid a push to repeal ObamaCare.

But during Friday's wide-ranging conversation, Meadows seesawed between optimism about the midterm outlook and an unblinking acceptance that Republicans might lose nearly 30 House seats in November, which would hand the majority to Democrats.

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“I can make the case for losing 27 or 28 seats,” he said. “What difference does a majority make?” he said with a shrug.

Because the narrowly divided Senate has blocked much of the GOP’s agenda in the last year, losing control of the House would be painful but would not feel dramatically different, Meadows argued.

That perspective, he noted, is like “nails on a chalkboard” among his GOP brethren.

“If at this point nine or 10 Democrats in the Senate control what gets to the president’s desk, what difference does a majority in the House make?” he said. “I don’t know that in legislative terms it would change a whole lot.”

Meadows said Democratic control would alter House “leverage points,” including that progressives could tie the administration in knots with oversight investigations and potentially file impeachment charges against the president.

“Democrats will get a lot more bold about the impeachment efforts,” he said, “but legislatively we seem to have ceded our power to the other chamber. And that’s what I fundamentally disagree with, and think we’ve got to stop.”

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Meadows did not mention Speaker Paul Ryan Paul Davis RyanKenosha will be a good bellwether in 2020 At indoor rally, Pence says election runs through Wisconsin Juan Williams: Breaking down the debates MORE (R-Wis.), with whom he has clashed in the past. He denied having ambitions to run for Speaker himself if his party maintains control after November, or to try to lead the House GOP in the minority, should power flip.

He said he favors “a different type of leadership style” at the top, an approach that’s more “transparent” and “inclusive.” Specifically, Meadows complained he and his colleagues should be awarded committee assignments and chairmanships based on merit and ability, not the “campaign cash” they raise and contribute, or based on friendships.

“There is no Speaker’s race in my future, ever,” Meadows said flatly. “It’s not a job that I have ever aspired to … if I can help others do that, then that’s great.”

The congressman predicted the wobbly political terrain for Republicans, as measured in recent polls, could improve before November if his party could deliver on the policy agenda conservatives promised voters in 2016.

“A lot of people showed up [in 2016] on Nov. 8 to vote for a new president and a new Congress that said `we’re going to do things differently.’ ”

Meadows said, “If they see that we’re actually doing what we said, then November will be fine.”

At the moment, he believes GOP losses in the House could be contained to 15 to 18 seats, to still hold the reins, but he described himself as “a realist.”

Recent Democratic victories in New Jersey, Virginia, Alabama and a Wisconsin state Senate special election are telling, but inconclusive, Meadows insisted.

And there’s still time for Republicans to talk up a strong economy, tax cuts and policy changes they think voters support, he argued.

“I think it could potentially mean a wave, but I think at this point, there’s a frustration, certainly, by people who were shocked and surprised by Nov. 8, who are turning out and organizing in a different way,” Meadows conceded.

“I have seen that. To not acknowledge that would be to ignore the obvious.”

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Power Politics, hosted by The Hill’s Alexis Simendinger, airs Saturday mornings.

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