Senior Trump advisor Kellyanne Conway said in an interview Sunday morning that White House press secretary Sean Spicer wasn’t lying about crowd size at the President’s inauguration—he was just giving “alternative facts.”

“On this matter of crowd size, I think it is a symbol for the unfair and incomplete treatment that this president often receives,” Conway told Chuck Todd on MSNBC’s “Meet The Press.”

“You did not answer the question of why the president asked the White House press secretary to come out in front of the podium for the first time and utter a falsehood,” Todd interrupted. “Why did he do that? It undermines the credibility of the entire White House press office on day one.”

“No, it doesn’t. Don’t be so overly dramatic about it, Chuck,” Conway replied. “You’re saying it’s a falsehood, and they’re giving Sean Spicer, our press secretary, gave alternative facts to that. But the point really is—”

“Wait a minute. Alternative facts? Alternative facts?” Todd interjected, looking incredulous. “Four of the five facts he uttered were just not true.”

Conway tried to interrupt, but Todd continued.

“Look, alternative facts are not facts,” he said.

On Saturday night, White House press secretary Sean Spicer accused the media of misrepresenting the crowd at Trump’s inauguration in order to “lessen the enthusiasm” of the event and cited attendance numbers which contradicted those reported by the D.C. metro authority.

It was unclear where Spicer got the measurements he conveyed to reporters or how they were obtained.

Watch their exchange below: