Quote History Originally Posted By 32ACP:

37,



You made the right choice--it's easier.



I read your prior thread--please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you said you machined the lower to M-16 rather than AR-15 specs? And it was engraved where the auto sear would go.



Troy likely has their lowers AR-15 spec--i don't know, I've never seen one in person. But the difference: drill a hole in the engraved auto sear hole with an M16 spec lower & you drop in an auto sear. Time? Maybe 5 minutes with a hand drill or drill press. Sure, it's easier with one of the jigs or templates they sell to mark the area--but with the engraving already there?



With an AR-15 spec lower, you drill out the etching and have to know how to mill the rest of the lower to fit an auto sear. Time? It depends on if you know what you're doing & have access to something that can serve as a verticals mill.



It's goofy--I don't remember who, but there were 2 companies selling M16 lowers without the auto sear hole as of a couple years ago. Heck, the early ARs Colt made were the same M16 lower, just no 3rd hole. Moreover, it's "capricious," I believe is the term lawyers use. It's BS!



Again--just a guess. Glad it wasn't more expensive for you, OP. View Quote



I have not seen any of the later engravings that are etched in the correct spot to put the 3rd pin, they are offset a small amount, which is all it takes, you can't just eyeball the 3rd pin hole and get it right normally. If you were to drill the 3rd hole, it would be in the wrong place.



As an 80% lower, the FCG with maybe the exception of the take down pin pocket is not machined, so no determination of what it is can be made. Based on current published regulations and laws, it is not a machine gun and there has been no intent to make it a machine gun.



It is not hard to make any AR into a machine gun, there are 3 normal ways, RDIAS, Lightning Link, or actually drilling and milling the pocket as well as the holes to accept the full auto FCG components in absence of these items, it is not a class 3 firearm.



If they didn't issue a written determination from the Tech Department, then it is an agent trying to flex his muscles and it has very strong implications on the retro/clone business, a determination of this nature if left to stand could and probably would change the whole scope of the business. This is why it needs to be appealed and request another in depth determination and it has to be in writing, with the exact reasons it was determined to be a Machine gun. That said, if the sear hole had been drilled, it does not matter what other parts are present, it is a machine gun, you don't have to have the actual parts to make it functional.



I know the BATF can fuck with us in many different ways, but this is a bullshit fuck of the worst kind and should not be allowed to just fade into the sunset.



As it sits right now, it is not even a gun, it is a paperweight, and that is all it is. Also, because there is a commercial business that is involved, if it was truly determined to be a Class III firearm, they would be arresting the proprietor of the shop and would charge him with manufacture of illegal Class III firearms. I have not seen any of the later engravings that are etched in the correct spot to put the 3rd pin, they are offset a small amount, which is all it takes, you can't just eyeball the 3rd pin hole and get it right normally. If you were to drill the 3rd hole, it would be in the wrong place.As an 80% lower, the FCG with maybe the exception of the take down pin pocket is not machined, so no determination of what it is can be made. Based on current published regulations and laws, it is not a machine gun and there has been no intent to make it a machine gun.It is not hard to make any AR into a machine gun, there are 3 normal ways, RDIAS, Lightning Link, or actually drilling and milling the pocket as well as the holes to accept the full auto FCG components in absence of these items, it is not a class 3 firearm.If they didn't issue a written determination from the Tech Department, then it is an agent trying to flex his muscles and it has very strong implications on the retro/clone business, a determination of this nature if left to stand could and probably would change the whole scope of the business. This is why it needs to be appealed and request another in depth determination and it has to be in writing, with the exact reasons it was determined to be a Machine gun. That said, if the sear hole had been drilled, it does not matter what other parts are present, it is a machine gun, you don't have to have the actual parts to make it functional.I know the BATF can fuck with us in many different ways, but this is a bullshit fuck of the worst kind and should not be allowed to just fade into the sunset.As it sits right now, it is not even a gun, it is a paperweight, and that is all it is. Also, because there is a commercial business that is involved, if it was truly determined to be a Class III firearm, they would be arresting the proprietor of the shop and would charge him with manufacture of illegal Class III firearms.