Below is an interview German historian and journalist Michael Hesemann gave Tert.am.



Tert.am: The German parliament has decided to condemn the act of genocide against Armenians in the Ottoman Empire. In the draft document they mention the word genocide. How do you explain this?



Hesemann: In my opinion, the draft which was published on Thursday is far too weak. It mentions the term "genocide" directly only in its headline, which rather looks like a way to keep it as a topic without saying anything more in the text itself. Here, the "planned expulsion and extermination of over one million ethnic Armenians" is mentioned only as "exemplary for the history of mass exterminations, ethnic cleansings, mass expulsions, yes the genocides" of the 20th century. This is the first and the last time we find the term "genocide" (besides its quote in a short sketch of the history of this debate at the Bundestag) in the whole document, from now on replaced by "expulsions and massacres". The document appeals for a "reconciliation and communication" between Turks and Armenians but forgets to mention the conditio sine qua non: The necessity to move Turkey to admit its crimes, to apologize and offer a reasonable compensation to the Armenians. And it completely forgets the main point, the necessity of an official definition of the events of 1915/16 as genocide and to demand legal persecution of any denial of this genocide as it is faced by holocaust deniers.



How do I explain this unsatisfying draft? The German government and, first of all, Angela Merkel, does not want to provoke Erdogan's anger since it believes it needs the Turkish dictator in the refugee crisis. And certainly neither Merkel's CDU nor Steinemeiers SPD want to lose Turkish votes in the next election; keep in mind we have three Million Turks living in Germany, and many of them have a German passport and are allowed to vote.

Tert.am: Does German parliament want to pass a document which may become a fundamental document to prevent genocides in future?



Hesemann: No, certainly not, since the published draft is far too weak for this purpose. It does not demand any consequences for the murderers of 1915/16, just appeals for a reconciliation and approach on both sides. Given what treasures Turkey stole from the Armenians, such a result is rather an invitation for new genocides, since it keeps the original one unpunished and without any consequences. Therefore, the resolution draft communicates the wrong message: Feel free to kill but be ready to embrace your victim's relatives a hundred years later! Is that a form of prevention? For a moment let us understand what happened in 1915/16: A whole nation was massacred or sent on death marches to starve in concentration camps in the Syrian desert! Only those who escaped to Russia, lived in Constantinople and Smyrna under international control, converted to Islam, were sold into slavery or managed to hide, survived. The murderers or their legal successors never apologized, never offered any compensation, never even admitted their crimes. And now the German government puts victims and killers on the same level, inviting them to start a dialogue, a reconciliation process, therefore making the second step first, while leaving the crimes unadmitted and unpunished? That's absurd!



Tert.am: What do you think why turkey continues to deny Armenian genocide?



Hesemann: For two reasons. First of all, it is against their faith and their mentality to admit any guilt. It would mean to bow, to "lose their face". The concept that we are all sinners and receive forgiveness when we regret and confess our guilt is a Christian one. In Islamic law, the murder of a non-muslim "unbeliever" remains unpunished. In the situation of a war, a declared djihad, any "unbeliever" can be killed even when there is just a suspicion against him. Second, the Armenian genocide was the "Urverbrechen", the original crime, which led to the birth of modern Turkey, which is more or less the homogenous nation the Turkish nationalists and protofaschists of the Young turk movement wanted it to be. The elite of modern Turkey consists for a great part of the "winners of 1915", the profiteers of the Armenian genocide, those who were responsible for the crimes against the Armenians, who confiscated or stole their goods and property and overtook their positions in society. Keep in mind that the Armenian genocide was not an isolated crime which took place in some far-away camps; it took place just in front of the entire population of Anatolia, in their cities and villages which thousands who pillaged the Armenian's homes as soon as their death caravan disappeared beyond the horizon. And how many members of the modern Turkish elite still own houses, land, property, fortune which belonged to Armenians before 1915? Just take Erdogan himself who built his 1000+-rooms-palace on an originally Armenian estate near Angora/Ankara.



Tert.am: Is it possible that turkey recognize the Armenian genocide as Germans recognize the Holocaust? If yes when is this going to happen?



Hesemann: Everything is possible, the question is if it's realistic. At this point: certainly not. Erdogan will never admit it. But of course there is hope that Turkey one day will have a regime change and a new government wants to deal with its moral responsibilities. That's why international pressure is so important. We have to strengthen the opposition in Turkey, anyone, who is willing to recognize the Armenian genocide and compensate its victims. We have to send a clear signal to Ankara that Turkey will only become a member of the civilized world when it admits its crimes as Germany admitted the Holocaust!



Tert.am: What is the role of Turkey in Nagorno Karabakh conflict?



Hesemann: You know it and I know it. Of course the Azari regime is so close to Turkey that you can call it a "puppet government" and would not do anything without the consent of Erdogan. Armenia has close ties to Russia and that's why Turkey, too weak to attack Russia directly, invited its Azari ally to start a kind of "proxy war" against Armenia. It is so sad that innocent civilians suffer under this situation. Besides, Azerbaidjan needs the conflict as a kind of valve or outlet for the tensions caused by the radicalization of young Azaris who supported the IS and fought in Syria and Iraq, faced the Russian attacks and fled home, full of hate and aggression, and needed a new victim. This aspects makes the Nagorno Karabakh conflict so dangerous, since it transports the IS ideology and violence right into the Caucasus region.