Like some of you, I read Comedian To Atheists: A Message From Jay Mohr on the blog Dogma Debate. I took some time to write back to Jay.

Here it is.

Hello,

I’m going to start off with apologizing. I confess I’m not too acquainted with your work, Mr. Mohr. Yes, I’ve seen you on SNL and thought you were funny. From listening to interviews of cast members having that job is a grind. Just getting on the show demonstrates more than a little talent as well as grit. The general population believes comedians are people who live comfortable lives. It’s anything but.

I read your letter to atheists posted over at the blog Dogma Debate Comedian to Atheists A Message from Jay Mohr. Even though you probably won’t read my thoughts on it, I decided to jot down some of my reflections.

Oh, who am I? I’m just an atheist with a blog. Yeah, one of those guys. Occasionally I’m funny.

My intent is not to dissect your letter word for word. There are parts you wrote I feel I can speak to.

Let’s just dive into the meat and potatoes?

I am Christian. And I know you’re an atheist. You’ve told me. Written me. I’ve heard you telling someone else. It’s in your twitter handle. The name of your weekly meeting. Your poker night. Your podcast has the word atheist in it. Stitched across the front of your softball jersey is something secular like Faithless or Godless. Your fantasy football team has a name like “Hail Marty.”

Hmmm, it’s an interesting way to start off a conversation. I have no doubt you were acting in good faith and trying to bridge the atheist-believer gulf.

However, consider how this sounds when one word is exchanged for another.

I am Christian. And I know you’re a atheist Jew. You’ve told me. Written me. I’ve heard you telling someone else. It’s in your twitter handle. The name of your weekly meeting. Your poker night. Your podcast has the word atheist Judaism in it. Stitched across the front of your softball jersey is something secular like Faithless Temple Elohim or Godless Mishegas . Your fantasy football team has a name like “Shlep.”

See what I did there? Well, I did a few things. As a comedian you know one of the essential items on our How to Communicate Effectively Checklist is building rapport with the audience. I’m not trying to tone-shame you. Rather, I have my old therapist’s voice in my head saying “You may be right, but you lose your power when you do that.”

When I look at the list of guests that have appeared on Dogma Debate, I’m surprised that in it’s entirety, the list is binary. People from all walks of life, different cities, ages, sexes, listeners themselves and academics, all broken down into two categories. Atheist or Religious.

I’ll be honest; I don’t listen to Dogma Debate (maybe I should be apologizing to David Smalley, too). In a world where there is Dan Carlin (Hardcore History and Common Sense) Marc Maron (WTF), Chris Harwick (Nerdist), Joe Rogan, and Freakonomics there isn’t time for anyone to listen to all the excellent podcasts out there.

What I will say is that my own podcast Naked Diner (yes, shameless plug) we have a variety of guests. W. Kamau Bell was one. After talking about racism in America, he discussed the role of black churches in their community. He changed my mind on the topic. Being black in America and belonging to a church (the only consistent societal structure that one can rely on for aid and support) now makes sense to me despite the Bible’s endorsement of slavery.

But I digress.

When I listen to atheists and Christians argue, I’m struck by how little either side actually listen to each other.

I’m not sure this is the case. I’d be careful not to make the “You don’t agree with me so you must not understand my point.” There have been times someone accused me of not understanding them. However, if I can recite their position accurately, then I think it’s not the case.

Both voices get louder and louder as the talk continues. Simple questions are answered with “Let me answer your question with a question” (GRRRRR).

Yeah, that question vs. question thing bugs me, too.

A small item in a long paragraph will be parsed and dissected ad nauseam eventually leaving both parties feeling confused as to how they got that far into the weeds.

Well, words do matter, don’t they? Is the Holy Spirit the same substance as God or not? I believe there was a lot of controversy back in the days of the Council of Nicea about specific words describing that relationship.

These conversations are complicated. Doing it without a moderator means that the host has to sum up his or her point and try to make the episode entertaining. It’s not an easy job. Conversations can spin out of control.

Why always an argument?

There isn’t. Not in real life anyway. Podcasting isn’t real life. It’s entertainment. Sure, there’s an educational angle about Christian vs. Atheist debates. (Gosh, I forgot that Jesus talked about hell so much.) Listeners tune into debates partly because they find it fun. That’s what they come for. It may be something like this. I like baseball. I want to see the Red Sox play at Fenway. I’m not there to see soccer. I came there to see baseball. Most people checking out Atheist vs. Christian podcasts know that life isn’t all baseball. They just want to watch a game every once in a while.

I hope that made sense.

Being asked to prove the unprovable, the Christian will always wind up on his ass.

Read that sentence over again, please.

If faith is believing in things without facts, then that’s a problem. How do you know what you know?

The atheist will always be the victor in these duels. If you’re an atheist you may be thinking, “Then it IS working, the Christian just got knocked down.” Correct, the Christian is bloodied, torn, and made to look like a fool. My question to atheists is a simple one: What did you win?

First, the winner wins street cred within their community. And that eventually leads to more clicks and more Patreon supporters. It’s an economic system that incentivizes that behavior. It’s capitalism.

Second, having debates matter. There are more than a few non-believers out there who were swayed by these discussions.

Rarely does the religious person walk away from the debate with a changed mind and throw their faith into the nearest trash can.

Jay, (can I call you Jay?) people don’t change like that. Do you remember that Seinfeld bit about relationships being like big vending machines full of treats? You have to rock it back and forth a few times to knock it down. Entrenched ideas of any sort are like that. It can take a bunch of arguments for a believer to become a non-believer. The process of deconversion is often invisible to a third-party observer.

Before you can send me memes of the Salem Witch Trials or The Inquisitions, I, like you, know that religion has been the single largest reason for murder and mayhem on our planet.

OK. Good.

I have been called a cafeteria Catholic by others and I have taken it as a compliment.

I think we’re at a point where we may have very different opinions. If you’re giving money to the Catholic Church, then you are supporting a worldwide criminal organization undermining human rights. This criminal organization has supported and protected pedophiles.

Now, you may say the Church has done many good works. Of course, it has. Hamas does a lot of good, too. Both groups do social good for their respective communities but at too high a cost. It’s a Faustian bargain. There are organizations you can give your hard earned money to that deserve it.

You write about Jesus. I certainly don’t want to get in the weeds about the Jesus we find in the Bible. I’m just going to assume you’ve read the Gospels a few times like I have. We both know there’s a Jesus for every group and every occasion.

Hippy Jesus.

Republican Jesus.

My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic Jesus.

OK, I may have made that last one up.

However, there is a Jesus for every shoe size.

Before I end this letter and get back to daddying, there is one suggestion I have that may help you in the future when communicating with atheists. When you write this:

I will pray for your well being and your happiness.

…you lose your audience. Atheists will tune out. It’s as if I were to say to you, “I’m going to go home and dry hump a Bible.” It doesn’t make sense, and it’s a bit insulting.

I wish the best for you and yours.

Regards,

Andy Hall

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