Recently a brewery owner from Vermont was quoted in an article citing the mental health issues that exist in the brewing industry. It was a powerful and candid statement that brought the subject into focus and opened up debate. In a subsequent post however, the brewer attempted to step back from the subject. This was, in the opinion of Scott Sullivan from Greenbush Brewing, an opportunity lost.

Note: a follow-up article has been published by the team at “ Better Drinking Culture “

Scott believes there are others out there in the industry that are suffering from mental health issues. He has placed himself and his own recovery in the spotlight to help bring this issue out into the open. Scott and I connected and he agreed to the interview transcribed below. It is perhaps the most blunt, unvarnished and thought provoking discussion I’ve had with an industry insider.

Scott’s Journey to Hell and Back

Scott: Because I live in a small town, everyone is in your business and everyone knows everything about you. Ever since I’ve been diagnosed, I’ve been very open about the situation …

So a little bit of background about me;

The Brewery opened 7 years ago. My life kept accelerating and accelerating the business was growing faster and faster. I was running at a manic pace and I started to realize I was drinking just to stay on top. The amount of stress was killing me, you know?

It’s a problem in the industry, because you have super easy access to alcohol. You’re stressing out so you have a beer and another and another. So the years go by and I knew that the stress was taking a wicked toll on me and I was thinking if something doesn’t change I’m gonna crack.

Fast forward to Nov 2016 – I totally lost it. I had a full mental breakdown.

I went on leave for four months. Soon after, I got locked in a mental facility for three days, where they gave me a misdiagnosis and put me on medication that made me suicidal.

I went to Seattle. I lost my marriage and kids I mean I completely cracked. Everybody in this area knew about it. When I came back from Seattle in March of last year, my company had almost gone under.

I finally went to a proper psychiatrist and he said you don’t have anxiety and depression (Scott was diagnosed bi-polar). Once I got the proper diagnosis and medication I was fine, that was all it took.

I had to have a full on breakdown to get there. I lost my marriage, I almost lost my business and it wasn’t until all of that happened that I figured out what was wrong. I began to realize ….oh well no wonder why you’re drinking all the time – you’re self-medicating.

David: So you hit rock bottom, stripped of just about everything and then you came to some realization…

Scott: As time went on I began to realize there are other people in my own company with mental health issues. I’m not even the only bi-polar person in my own company. I wasn’t equipped to help anybody else until I was able to heal myself.

So once I took care of myself and I was able to become a good sounding board. This opened the door to me realizing that this is a way bigger issue.

The thing that pissed me off about it is, if you have cancer everyone will talk about it, but if it’s a mental health issue there’s such a stigma behind it.

In the same way we need to come clean and address the drinking culture in craft beer. For the people in the industry, it’s an abuse thing way too often I would say.

What ticked me off was when that guy (brewer from Vermont) spoke candidly about mental health in the industry in that interview. I was like oh wow that’s really cool!

<The brewer later claimed he had been misquoted.>

If he was misquoted then he got totally misrepresented all over the map. All the things he said, just were like they make logical coherent sense when you read them.

I think, just my personal opinion, reading his rebuttal to the article about him I was like no way man! You just realized that you took a stand and you don’t want to look like you took a stand.

David: He had such an opportunity. I had the same reaction.

Scott: So why didn’t he take the opportunity? He said what he said, why didn’t he stand behind it?

So I was like forget you man, you’re the darling of the world. I’ve never had their beer and I don’t know this man but everyone says it’s really great. I don’t know if it’s great or not, I don’t know anything about him and I don’t know much about his brewery. I only know that he got way on the map somehow and he had a platform. People at work were saying ‘don’t poke the bear’ and I said screw that, I am going to poke the bear.

<Scott Tweeted a series of posts about the subject>

Twitter is the platform that if I see stuff like that I’m gonna say something.

David: Your Twitter account is unvarnished man. I respect that.

Scott: Ali is our Marketing Director but I have the Greenbush Twitter account.

I saw this thing as an opening to force the issue because I didn’t go right back at him directly. I was not just going to let this subject die.

David: It sounds like you’re in a good spot now and you’ve got a platform to pull onto others to say, hey it’s not just you.

Scott: Look I know how these things go. You post this interview and people will read it, but then they will comment at the end with all kinds of stuff. I’m totally prepared that some people will try to explain mental illness to me as a person who has it, I’m aware that some people are gonna try and explain what alcoholism versus self-medicating is, I know all that stuff. I’m not afraid of any of that.

If you promote the living hell out of this because if it opens the door to a much broader discussion – I would be very happy about that.

The Beer Experience over the Beer

David: We’ve been doing some soul-searching at Sommbeer lately and I’ll just be blunt, we’re tired of just doing beer reviews.

Scott: Good! There’s bigger issues

David: A lot of us don’t chase bottles anymore; it’s more about the experience.

I heard someone say once “Alcohol at its best is a social lubricant, at its worse well you know what it is”

Scott: I don’t have a TV in our taproom. It’s like the European model where it serves as a “public house” where people sit and enjoy themselves (kids are welcome). We’ve had people that have met here and gotten married. I would hope that I always make really good beer but that’s not what the whole thing is about. I’m trying to push us past the idea of being just a brewery. It’s about building community. As you say, the beer is just a component of the overall experience.

David: Which is why I don’t understand why people stand in beer lines, I don’t get it.

Scott: Nothing is that good. Nothing I make, even a really really good beer, is worth waiting in line for 12 hours.

David: You guys make fantastic beer but I know what you’re saying.

Scott: I don’t want to dismiss the enjoyment get out of the scene the part that I dismiss is the obsessiveness over it.

The Ups and Downs with “Creatives”

David: Switching gears, tell me about the mental health challenges for the “creatives” in the industry. Seems that they can have high highs and low lows like most creatives in any industry.

Scott: The problem is most people know “something” is up even if they don’t know what it is. People get diagnosed but refuse to get medicated because they are afraid that if they go on that medication they will lose their creative edge. They think well “I won’t be creative anymore”.

Statistically, people have higher creative output after being treated then when not being treated.

I noticed that once I was stable;

1. I did not have the urge to self-medicate anymore

2. I was endlessly more creative than I had ever been

David: Probably because you were productive in the times you would have ordinarily been on the low side.

Scott: And I wasn’t doing weird crazy stuff on the upswing.

David: What would be the one message you want to get across to everybody out there in the industry?

Scott: That mental health to me is a predicate for dealing with the self-medication. There are many reasons why people drink too much (stress, life issues, upbringing etc.). For those people who are dealing with any sort of (long term or short term) mental health disorders however, the drinking is a symptomatic aspect of that. It is a very real thing in the industry.

The brewer in the article didn’t want to get into the indulgence aspect, because it sounded like he was dogging on the rest of the industry for drinking too much. The truth is he’s right.

Excessive Drinking in Beer Industry

David: He is right

Scott: Whether you have a mental health issue or not, this industry drinks too much.

There’s so much pressure. The public either loves you or blows you up. The thing I don’t like about the brewing industry (like the music industry) is it can be very cliquish about what it does or doesn’t like. People are constantly chasing new styles. You’re constantly under pressure to create new beers and new styles.

We are in this to do creative things and for ideological reasons. The money comes by doing those things the way that you are supposed to. Do things to the best of your ability it just seems to work out, that the money aspect of it follows. You won’t have to chase around trying to figure out what new odd thing to stick in a beer.

David: Well, this article may or may not be good for Sommbeer but I don’t care. This is an important message to get out.

Scott: Now that I am in a stable place, and my company is stable, this is a good time for me to do this.

I know this will be controversial.