chenchen Profile Joined November 2010 United States 1131 Posts Last Edited: 2011-03-26 21:06:10 #1



Recently in online international events like FXOPENIS #2 yesterday and TSL3 today, the Koreans have been forced to play on EU and NA, and it is widely known that EU-NA lag is much much more bearable than EU-KR or NA-KR.



We can see that MKP's micro in FXOPENIS was extremely subpar. MC's voidray micro in TSL3 and Super's voidray micro in FXOPENIS was almost nonexistent. MC himself said that he went for void colossus because the lag was so bad that there was no possibility for micro.



Today in TSL3, MVP could not micro his marines against the initial zealot stalker push. His stimmed marauder kiting was about half the speed of what it should be.





To be honest, the lag in events like FXOPENIS and TSL make me not want to watch, because not only is the lag unbearable but the casters and the audience just seem to be overwhelmed with foreigner bias and completely disregard the lag of the Koreans, even downplaying the lag on purpose to make it seem like the Koreans are being beaten fairly "This match is played on NA to mitigate lag" ~ Chill. That kind of comment only serves to disregard the lag and make it look like that the Koreans are beaten without environmental factors.



This is like watching the foreigners beat down the koreans with their hands tied behind their backs and still cheering on the foreigners.



I just want to ask the community, tournament organizers, and commentators for that matter, to please be more considerate of the lag affecting the Koreans.



It's really ironic that Korean and Chinese IPs were banned in TSL2, BECAUSE of lag, and if I recall correctly, quite a few other players were kind of shunned because of lag.

Well lag is clearly benefiting one side more than other now, but it is ignored because it benefits the foreigners.



tl dr: Koreans lag a lot. International online events are not a good indication of success.



Demonstration of lag in KR-NA connection



Teamliquid is a great community, but sometimes the blatant foreigner bias is just completely sickening. I really think that the community will be a lot strong if we cut down on the bias and objectively determine the players' skill.Recently in online international events like FXOPENIS #2 yesterday and TSL3 today, the Koreans have been forced to play on EU and NA, and it isthat EU-NA lag is much much more bearable than EU-KR or NA-KR.We can see that MKP's micro in FXOPENIS was extremely subpar. MC's voidray micro in TSL3 and Super's voidray micro in FXOPENIS was almost nonexistent. MC himself said that he went for void colossus because the lag was so bad that there was no possibility for micro.Today in TSL3, MVP could not micro his marines against the initial zealot stalker push. His stimmed marauder kiting was about half the speed of what it should be.To be honest, the lag in events like FXOPENIS and TSL make me not want to watch, because not only is the lag unbearable"This match is played on NA to mitigate lag" ~ Chill. That kind of comment only serves to disregard the lag and make it look like that the Koreans are beaten without environmental factors.This is like watching the foreigners beat down the koreans with their hands tied behind their backs and still cheering on the foreigners.I just want to ask the community, tournament organizers, and commentators for that matter, to please be more considerate of the lag affecting the Koreans.It's really ironic that Korean and Chinese IPs were banned in TSL2, BECAUSE of lag, and if I recall correctly, quite a few other players were kind of shunned because of lag.Well lag is clearly benefiting one side more than other now, but it is ignored because it benefits the foreigners.tl dr: Koreans lag a lot. International online events are not a good indication of success.Demonstration of lag in KR-NA connection Mod edit: Don't bring up a random 2010 youtube video please. Next person to do that will be banned powerade = dragoon blood

drgonzhere Profile Joined November 2010 United States 447 Posts #2



User was warned for this post no Dictator for Life of the PuMa Fanclub/ DRG, PuMA, Sage, Puzzle, MMA Fighting!

mprs Profile Joined April 2010 Canada 2929 Posts Last Edited: 2011-03-26 19:10:21 #3



I will be enjoying the awesome games.



User was warned for this post then don't watch idiot. you are only hindering yourself from enjoyment for this precedent standard. Let the players be mad about it, but know that there is nothing that can be done. So seriously stop whining about people whining, and realize that no one said international online events are a good indication of success, no one with half a brain anyway. If you are going to respond to every little idiot, then I wish you good luck in your future endeavors in this thing we call the internet.I will be enjoying the awesome games. We talkin about PRACTICE

BetterFasterStronger Profile Blog Joined August 2010 United States 604 Posts Last Edited: 2011-03-26 19:13:00 #4 adelscott and mvp



Seriously what should they do.

+ Show Spoiler + Hey guys AdelScott played very good and beat MVP but because MVP had just as much lag as adelscott did we are going to stop the tournament entirely just to explain to you that MVP had lag and it cost him the game 100% This is the best teamliquid can do with whats given too them. Honestly what would you have them do? They weren't down playing + Show Spoiler + Seriously what should they do. Top 200 as Protoss - Switched to Terran. 0-30 against EGiNcontroL... God damnet

tirentu Profile Blog Joined March 2009 Canada 1256 Posts Last Edited: 2011-03-26 19:12:11 #5 I'm sorry and realize this is a terrible post, but I can't take you seriously when you're talking about FXOPENIS.



For real though, yes, lag is an issue. Until Blizzard wakes up and deals with it, we're stuck with it. TSL has the best system I've seen to deal with it.

Demarini Profile Joined May 2010 United States 151 Posts #6 I don't know what you want....so if they played on Korean servers the situation would be reversed. It sucks, but there's no solution.

bLuR Profile Blog Joined June 2010 Canada 621 Posts #7 This is a foreigner website, we support foreigners, your logic is completely flawed, would you prefer if the casters said "yay adelscott wins, but only because of lag, don't get too excited." To be honest im struggling not to say shut the fuck up.



Koreans chose to play in this tournament, if there is lag, they know there is lag. Stop whining.

jemag Profile Blog Joined October 2010 Canada 98 Posts #8 did you really watch thorzain vs fruidealer and adelscott vs mvp? They just got outplayed in both series tbh, lag or not.

RyanRushia Profile Blog Joined April 2010 United States 2626 Posts #9 in all reality it's impossilbe to do anything for Eu vs Kr or whatveer than to try and give the best possible scenario... if that be NA than there's nothing more that can be done, should just be glad that these events are able to be done, and as there hasn't been any acknowledged complaints from korean players i don't think it's so bad that it's unplayable (pure speculation ont he last part) I saw the angel in the marble and carved until I set him free. | coL.Ryan | www.twitter.com/coL_RyanR

dcemuser Profile Joined August 2010 United States 3246 Posts #10 Mvp's decision making in both games was really poor.



The probes surrounding his marine happened in around 2-3 seconds and I doubt the latency is worse than 400-500 ms tops.



Maybe he was trying to wait until the last second or something, but the fact is that lag doesn't cause you to not upgrade, not harrass, and make really poor decisions.

Niick Profile Joined September 2010 Australia 425 Posts #11



User was warned for this post lol fxopenis You'll have to speak up, I'm wearing a towel.

frogmelter Profile Blog Joined April 2009 United States 964 Posts #12 On March 27 2011 04:07 chenchen wrote:



To be honest, the lag in events like FXOPENIS and TSL make me not want to watch, because not only is the lag unbearable but the casters and the audience just seem to be overwhelmed with foreigner bias and completely disregard the lag of the Koreans, even downplaying the lag on purpose to make it seem like the Koreans are being beaten fairly "This match is played on NA to mitigate lag" ~ Chill. That kind of comment only serves to disregard the lag and make it look like that the Koreans are beaten without environmental factors.





You're misunderstanding



EU playing on KR server is super super laggy and unplayable

KR playing on EU server is super super laggy and unplayable

EU playing on NA server is okay

KR playing on NA server is slightly worse than EU on NA but better than KR on EU



Therefore the best option is to play on NA to reduce lag You're misunderstandingEU playing on KR server is super super laggy and unplayableKR playing on EU server is super super laggy and unplayableEU playing on NA server is okayKR playing on NA server is slightly worse than EU on NA but better than KR on EUTherefore the best option is to play on NA to reduce lag

Overpowered Profile Joined January 2011 Czech Republic 751 Posts #13 I dont know, but MVP played rly bad and I think lag wasnt the main reason. Yes, it hurt him a bit, but no drops for ex.? Just another gold Protoss...

chenchen Profile Joined November 2010 United States 1131 Posts #14 On March 27 2011 04:11 dcemuser wrote:

Mvp's decision making in both games was really poor.



The probes surrounding his marine happened in around 2-3 seconds and I doubt the latency is worse than 400-500 ms tops.



Maybe he was trying to wait until the last second or something, but the fact is that lag doesn't cause you to not upgrade, not harrass, and make really poor decisions.



The marine got surrounded because MVP couldn't macro because of lag.



He couldn't harass because he couldn't have microed them well because of lag.



The marine got surrounded because MVP couldn't macro because of lag.He couldn't harass because he couldn't have microed them well because of lag. powerade = dragoon blood

Silmakuoppaanikinko Profile Joined November 2010 799 Posts #15 I do wonder though, what's the source of all this lag? How much info does there need to be sent across the world for the lag to be so significant with our high speed internet today, I played games to the US on dial up when I was a kid and it didn't lag, sure, graphics have improved, but does there really need to be sent so much more info that it still lags, even with the ridiculous bandwidths of today compared to 56k? Workers and town centres are the ultimate counter to turtles.

Lunares Profile Joined May 2010 United States 907 Posts #16 MVP was just outplayed strategically and tactically in both of those games. Maybe he had some lag yes and couldn't micro 100%, but that does not excuse the horrible decisions he made. Like countering a fast expand by trying to expand as well and go 4rax instead of tech into something better, engaging at the wrong times and in the wrong spots, etc.

Inflexion Profile Joined September 2009 Canada 486 Posts #17 On March 26 2011 12:08 DdoRo wrote:

ok, I talked to both koreans and european players about the lag issue.

there is almost no lag for EU players playing on the NA server, but Koreans actually have alot more latency than it seems they have.



two days ago, I tried to play with my korean friend on the NA server for 2s.

he was complainin alot about lag, he's forcefield went down like 1.5sec after he actually put it down



Also, in oGsMC's interview for TSL, he mentioned he went for colossi+void ray just to 1a, because he couldn't micro vs Ciara. Also, boxer and his gf mentioned about lag.



On March 26 2011 12:22 FXOpen wrote:

Guys you are talking about delay in seconds.... Let me put it into perspective.



When I was in Korea, ping to NA was 310-410 ms.



Accordingly to someone close to me in korea, since the japan earthquake its now almost double that.



I dont know what the seconds delay or whatever would be... I guess it would depend. But i'd say it effects those micro based players.



Just some food for thought for this thread. Just some food for thought for this thread. Four wheels move the body; two wheels move the soul.

chenchen Profile Joined November 2010 United States 1131 Posts #18 On March 27 2011 04:13 Silmakuoppaanikinko wrote:

I do wonder though, what's the source of all this lag? How much info does there need to be sent across the world for the lag to be so significant with our high speed internet today, I played games to the US on dial up when I was a kid and it didn't lag, sure, graphics have improved, but does there really need to be sent so much more info that it still lags, even with the ridiculous bandwidths of today compared to 56k?



It's not so much the amount of information as the latency, because it takes a long time to send stuff from Korea to NA. It's not so much the amount of information as the latency, because it takes a long time to send stuff from Korea to NA. powerade = dragoon blood

BetterFasterStronger Profile Blog Joined August 2010 United States 604 Posts #19 On March 27 2011 04:10 bLuR wrote:

This is a foreigner website, we support foreigners, your logic is completely flawed, would you prefer if the casters said "yay adelscott wins, but only because of lag, don't get too excited." To be honest im struggling not to say shut the fuck up.



Koreans chose to play in this tournament, if there is lag, they know there is lag. Stop whining.

I'll say it for you and risk the ban



ChenChen, Shut the fuck up.



User was banned for this post. I'll say it for you and risk the banChenChen, Shut the fuck up. Top 200 as Protoss - Switched to Terran. 0-30 against EGiNcontroL... God damnet

chenchen Profile Joined November 2010 United States 1131 Posts #20 On March 27 2011 04:14 BetterFasterStronger wrote:

Show nested quote +

On March 27 2011 04:10 bLuR wrote:

This is a foreigner website, we support foreigners, your logic is completely flawed, would you prefer if the casters said "yay adelscott wins, but only because of lag, don't get too excited." To be honest im struggling not to say shut the fuck up.



Koreans chose to play in this tournament, if there is lag, they know there is lag. Stop whining.

I'll say it for you and risk the ban



ChenChen, Shut the fuck up. I'll say it for you and risk the banChenChen, Shut the fuck up.



And why should I shut up, when I'm bringing up a completely valid point, and you're just being immature? And why should I shut up, when I'm bringing up a completely valid point, and you're just being immature? powerade = dragoon blood

1 2 3 4 5 17 18 19 Next All