michael barbaro

From The New York Times, I’m Michael Barbaro. This is “The Daily.” Today: Out of 198 Republicans in the House of Representatives, just 13 are women. This week, a closely watched election in North Carolina may help determine how serious the party is about changing that. It’s Wednesday, July 10.

[phone ringing]

speaker

Senate press.

michael barbaro

Hey, I’m trying to reach Julie Davis.

speaker

Sure. Hold on one second. Let me see if she’s here.

[hold music playing over phone]

julie hirschfield davis

Hello.

michael barbaro

Hey, it’s Michael.

julie hirschfield davis

Hey, how are you?

michael barbaro

Good. It really is amazing that the same exact piece of classical music plays every time you call Senate press. It’s on an endless loop.

julie hirschfield davis

The United States Senate.

michael barbaro

Julie Davis covers Congress for The Times.

julie hirschfield davis

It’s what they have to play for you.

michael barbaro

O.K., Julie, we’ve all heard the story of what happened with Democratic women in the midterms. They ran in record numbers, and they won in record numbers. But what about the Republican women?

julie hirschfield davis

The story when it came to Republican women was almost the direct opposite.

archived recording Democrats are going to probably expand their ranks of women by a third, while Republicans could lose up to a third of their current women.

julie hirschfield davis

Republican women hit their lowest level in 25 years, only 13 women elected. But more broadly than that, the entire cycle was a disaster for the Republican Party, because they lost the majority. And a lot of the reason that they lost the majority is because you had these Democratic women who, as you said, ran in record numbers, knocking off, in many cases, Republican men —

archived recording Of the 33 House seats that were flipped by Democrats, 22 of them were with female candidates, and of the —

julie hirschfield davis

— in some really competitive districts, including districts that President Trump had won.

michael barbaro

Julie, what was the takeaway for the Republican Party after those midterm results? Well, the takeaway was a much broader recognition than there had been in the past that they really needed to figure out a better strategy for recruiting and supporting women to run for office in the Republican Party. There had been voices — Republican women who had been talking for a long time about the fact that this is a weak point for the party, this is something that they had to work on, this is something they had to build up to. Democrats were better at this than Republicans were. But after the midterms in 2018, it kind of hit everyone like a ton of bricks that this is not just something to work on, this is a crisis. So now you have people like Kevin McCarthy, the minority leader in the House —

archived recording Does the Republican Party have a problem with women? archived recording (kevin mccarthy) We have a lot of room to grow. We don’t have —

julie hirschfield davis

— starting to agree that the party actually may have to start getting involved early in the process.

archived recording (kevin mccarthy) So of course they had more women coming forward. We can do better in recruitment. And that’s what I’m excited about doing.

julie hirschfield davis

Recruiting and putting their thumb on the scale in a primary to actually say, O.K., we’re going to support this woman so that she can make it to the general election and have a strong chance of competing against the Democrat. So this has been a really hot topic of discussion among Republicans, basically since the midterms. And you have all of these party leaders and outside groups thinking about how do they figure out a way to recruit, and promote, and elect more women. And it was fascinating, because last month, at an event in Washington —

archived recording (susan brooks) I want to start out by acknowledging some of my colleagues who are here.

julie hirschfield davis

— put on by one of these groups called Winning for Women, they launched this initiative to elect 20 Republican women in 2020. And Susan Brooks, who is the recruitment chair for the Republican House campaign arm, told this really interesting story about her own primary —

archived recording (susan brooks) Back in 2012, when I first ran, I was in a very tough seven-week primary. O.K.? I was the only woman running. I had never run. People out here didn’t know me.

julie hirschfield davis

— where she did not have the support of any of the party leadership. And the one member of Congress who endorsed her, she said, was Cathy McMorris Rodgers —

archived recording (susan brooks) And I will never forget that.

julie hirschfield davis

— who was the only woman in Republican leadership at the time. And she came out in favor of Susan Brooks, and she ended up winning the primary by a 1 percent margin. So essentially, she kind of squeaked through. And then she told the story of how all the Republican leaders, after she won —

archived recording (susan brooks) But I loved the calls, whether they were from Speaker Boehner, or Cantor, or McCarthy, or others, saying, hey.

julie hirschfield davis

Started calling her up on the phone and saying, like, oh, you know —

archived recording (susan brooks) We’re sorry. We chose the wrong horse here.

julie hirschfield davis

— but you know, we hear you’re great, and we want to be supportive.

archived recording (susan brooks) How can we help? I said, come out and help me fundraise, and let’s win this. And they did.

julie hirschfield davis

And I think her point was, by that point, it was almost too late. She might not have won. And it was because she hadn’t had that support when it really counted, which was during the primary. So then —

archived recording (susan brooks) But I won by 1 percent, O.K.? And so that’s why I bring it up. Joan Perry —

julie hirschfield davis

She brings up Joan Perry as an example of why things need to change.

archived recording (joan perry) What’s the difference between a pediatrician and a politician? We’re the ones fixing the problem, not the ones crying about. I’m Dr. Joan Perry, a pro-life Christian conservative and political outsider.

michael barbaro

Joan Perry, the woman seeking the Republican nomination in today’s special election in North Carolina.

julie hirschfield davis

Right. And that’s why, when Walter Jones, the congressman from North Carolina, died in February, and there was this very crowded primary of Republicans vying to replace him, Republicans started to look at Perry as a possible test case for whether or not the party can actually do this — find a strong candidate who is a woman competing in an important race, and actually get her over the finish line.

michael barbaro

And in what way is it a test?

julie hirschfield davis

So it’s really, for Republicans, a test of two things. One, will voters accept a Republican woman? And two, will the leaders in the party — will the sort of party infrastructure — bring themselves to unite behind a woman? And the group that put on this event, they’re this sort of umbrella group whose political arm has spent almost $900,000 to try to elect Joan Perry in this primary. And so they’re doing what Susan Brooks was essentially talking about, which is to say, get involved when it makes a difference. And the question is, will that be enough?

archived recording (susan brooks) We’re all joining arms together and trying to get woman all across the Republican political spectrum, because we got to take back this majority. Thank you all. [APPLAUSE]

[music]

julie hirschfield davis

And so I decided to go down to North Carolina and meet Dr. Perry and her opponent, and see for myself.

michael barbaro

We’ll be right back. So Julie, tell me about this trip.

julie hirschfield davis

So last week, I flew to Raleigh, North Carolina, and I rented a car, drove about two hours east of Raleigh, found Joan Perry and her campaign supporters in the driveway of a little community center. And we got in the white minivan that was waiting there for her.

joan perry Well, I got up this morning at 6:30 because I wanted to run before — julie hirschfield davis Before it got hot, yeah.

julie hirschfield davis

Perry was going to be going door to door, talking to voters and urging them to get out in the primary.

julie hirschfield davis So let’s talk about your race. joan perry Yeah.

julie hirschfield davis

And on our way there, I had a chance to talk to her about why she got in the race in the first place.

joan perry It was something that I had considered doing — actually, my husband had considered doing, too. But the season of life had just not been right. So we have five sons —

julie hirschfield davis

She talked about seasons of life, and how she has five adult sons, she has 10 grandchildren, she runs triathlons, she’s a very energetic woman. But she had been involved in her community in various ways, but never felt like the time was really right to run for Congress until —

joan perry The passage of the Reproductive Health Act in New York.

julie hirschfield davis

The New York legislature passed its new abortion law earlier this year. This is a law that basically makes it legal past 24 weeks of pregnancy, if the mother’s health or life were at risk, or if the fetus isn’t viable.

joan perry This is a different season when we are really allowing, permitting abortion up to the time of delivery. And I really felt strongly that, as there are remarkable Democratic women voices speaking out on this, that there needs to be a strong conservative female voice with medical expertise speaking to this issue — and others, but —

julie hirschfield davis

This is an issue she obviously cared deeply about, and felt that this was a good reason to want to run.

speaker What was that number? joan perry 6306, I think. Let me double-check.

julie hirschfield davis

So after about 10 minutes, we arrived to this community on the outskirts of New Bern, called Fairfield Harbour.

julie hirschfield davis I’m going to just tag along like a few paces behind you. I don’t want to disrupt anything. joan perry O.K.

julie hirschfield davis

And Dr. Perry started knocking on doors.

joan perry Yes, there we go, nice to meet you. speaker Yes, you’re going around. That’s good. joan perry Going around, yes, ma’am.

julie hirschfield davis

Some of the voters that we met knew her, knew her face.

joan perry I’m one of the Republican runoff candidates for District 3. speaker Yeah, I know. I see your ads all the time. And hear them all the time, too, on the radio.

julie hirschfield davis

For the most part, there were pretty enthusiastic people, people who were excited to meet her.

speaker We were just talking about you. joan perry Oh, wow, I’m so glad.

julie hirschfield davis

There was one woman who we found in her driveway. She talked about some of the issues that were really important to her.

speaker 1 Christian first. speaker 2 Support Donald Trump. I’m all for that. speaker 1 Amen, and no abortion. speaker 2 Yeah, I’m for that. joan perry Scripture and Constitution, and then we’re in good shape. speaker 1 Yes.

julie hirschfield davis

Then she kind of quietly said —

speaker I sort of like that you’re a woman. Is that a little prejudiced?

julie hirschfield davis

And Perry kind of laughed. That was clearly on her mind. There were other voters who didn’t seem to know very much about her and knew more about Greg Murphy, who is Perry’s opponent in this race. And some of them were also aware of the fact that Mark Meadows, who they know by reputation — he’s a congressman from North Carolina, they know about the Freedom Caucus, because many of them are conservatives — had endorsed Murphy.

speaker I like him. julie hirschfield davis Do you know him personally, or just from his reputation or — speaker Oh, and who supported him. joan perry Mr. Meadows? speaker Yeah.

julie hirschfield davis

There was one gentleman in particular who mentioned the fact that Mark Meadows had endorsed Murphy.

speaker I know he’s very conservative, and will stand up to the liberal left.

julie hirschfield davis

And just seemed to not quite believe that Perry could be as conservative as she said she was. And it was fascinating to me, because as I talked to party strategists and people who have been watching this play out over many years, there is this sense that, within the Republican Party, particularly where conservatives are concerned, there’s a tendency to see women as inherently less conservative than men, even if they’re lifelong Republicans who talk in all of the same ways as male conservatives about all of the issues that voters care about, there’s just a tendency to be suspicious that maybe, because she’s a woman, she may not be quite as hard-line as I want her to be. And no question, Perry’s opponent has tried to use that to his advantage.

archived recording — like her endorsement of a Democrat congressman, which she still stands by today. archived recording (joan perry) I knew his voting record, and he was the one that I was going to support. And I thought, that’s a decision I stand by. archived recording Or her opposition to President Trump’s emergency declaration on the border wall. archived recording (joan perry) I would consider voting against it. archived recording And once again, in her own words —

julie hirschfield davis

And that was clearly on the minds of some of these voters, that here in front of them was this woman who was talking about being pro-life, and strong borders, and a strong ally of President Trump, but somehow they couldn’t quite believe that she was as conservative as this other guy.

michael barbaro

What’s that about, do you think, Julie, that skepticism?

julie hirschfield davis

I think part of it is that people are not used to what they haven’t seen before. And the fact is that this whole problem exists because there have not been as many women in the ranks of the Republican Party as there have been in the ranks of the Democratic Party. The other reality is that some of the most prominent women in Congress are more toward the center. You have Susan Collins in Maine, Lisa Murkowski in Alaska. These are names that people know and associate with the Republican Party. And so given that, and that the crop of women who are leading this effort to recruit more women into the Republican Party, many of them are centrists as well, I think that tends to make voters a little suspicious that maybe this is just all an effort to move the party to the center, and not actually an effort to add gender diversity.

michael barbaro

Right. I’m struck by an ad from Mark Meadows in this race, in which he endorses Murphy over Perry. And he uses this very vivid language —

archived recording (mark meadows) You have to be invited to be a member of the Freedom Caucus, but you have to have a backbone of steel. Many members who run have a backbone of banana. When you peel it back, it gets real mushy. And I can tell you, having talked to both candidates, give them —

michael barbaro

— that struck me as a touch, perhaps, coded.

julie hirschfield davis

Well, right. And you’re not the only one. Elise Stefanik, the congresswoman from New York who has basically dedicated her political action arm to electing more women and recruiting more women, is supporting Perry. And I spoke with her for the story. And she basically said that Meadows and the Freedom Caucus are really walking this line of veering into sexist territory here. When you pigeonhole a woman and say she can’t be conservative just because she’s a woman, what does that really mean? And so after Perry finished knocking on doors, we went over to this lunch counter in a gas station, near the outskirts of town. And she was basically chatting up the lunchtime crowd. And it was a mostly male crowd of voters. So I kind of went around after she talked to some of these folks to see what kind of impression she had made. And I wasn’t recording at this point. I was just kind of going up to people and trying to get their thoughts. And I spoke to one man, his name was Tommy Moore, he was a retired barbecue restaurant owner. And he still seemed undecided, and I kind of asked him what was going to make the difference to him in terms of what his vote was going to be. And he said, you know, I want someone who’s going to support the president, I think she would do that. But the only thing is, that, as you know — he says to me — women can sometimes be a little emotional, and I’d really have to think about that. And I said, what do you mean? And he said, well, it’s just something I have to think about. He said it again. And he clearly liked Dr. Perry and what she stood for, but it was also apparent to me that he wasn’t necessarily going to be comfortable voting for her.

[music]

michael barbaro

So let’s talk about what we’re going to learn from the outcome of this race. You said that it’s a test of both voters and of the Republican Party itself. It seems to me like one of those might end up guiding the other, which is to say, if the voters show up for Joan Perry, then leadership, the Republican Party’s top brass, they might be more inclined to support women once they see that.

julie hirschfield davis

I think that’s true. I think they are really viewing this as a test of whether their efforts to recruit more women are going to be successful. And some of it has to do with money, and advertising, and all of the traditional tools of the campaign, but some of it has to do with the electorate. And so part of this is going to be, can we send an effective message to voters that it’s important to elect somebody like this to Congress?

michael barbaro

And what happens if Perry loses?

julie hirschfield davis

Well, I think there’s going to be a lot of soul-searching among the leaders of the party about what they can actually do to diversify on gender lines. They have outspent the forces supporting Greg Murphy a large factor. This is a pretty smooth-running campaign. They have a candidate who really fits the ideology of the district. And part of this effort is a gamble that, even if voters may not be ready to embrace a candidate like this, that with the concerted effort of party leaders, with enough money, with enough preparation, that they can turn that tide. If that turns out not to be the case, that voters simply don’t want to elect a person like this, then they’re going to have to re-evaluate and figure out what it’s going to take to change the game.

[music]

julie hirschfield davis

Every race is different, but this is certainly a place where they should be able to mount this effort and be successful in their eyes. And if they can’t, the inevitable question is going to be, well, where can they?

michael barbaro

Julie, thank you very much.

julie hirschfield davis

Thank you, Michael.

michael barbaro

On Tuesday night, Joan Perry was defeated by State Representative Greg Murphy, with Murphy capturing nearly 60 percent of the vote. In a statement, the group Women for Trump, which supported Murphy, said that his victory over Perry, quote, “showed women voters flexing their brainpower to vote solely on policy above voting their anatomy. Moving forward,” they said, “it is loud and clear that women will vote for the best candidate instead of using gender as a qualifier.” We’ll be right back. Here’s what else you need to know today.

archived recording (chuck schumer) I am calling on Secretary Acosta to resign. It is now impossible for anyone to have confidence in Secretary Acosta’s ability to lead the Department of Labor. If he refuses to resign, President Trump should fire him.

michael barbaro

On Tuesday, top congressional Democrats called on the secretary of labor, Alex Acosta, to resign or be fired over his handling of a 2008 federal investigation into Jeffrey Epstein when Acosta was the U.S. attorney in Miami.

archived recording (chuck schumer) Instead of prosecuting a predator and serial sex trafficker of children, Acosta chose to let him off easy.

michael barbaro

Acosta oversaw a secret non-prosecution agreement that kept Epstein from facing federal charges, despite evidence that Epstein had paid multiple underage girls for sex. In a tweet on Tuesday, Acosta called Epstein’s conduct “horrific,” and said he was pleased to see that federal prosecutors in New York were bringing new charges against him. And —

archived recording (ross perot) Do you want a government that comes at you from Washington, or do you want a government that comes from you? archived recording From! archived recording (ross perot) O.K. Who do the people in Washington work for? archived recording Us! archived recording (ross perot) Who pays their salaries? archived recording We do! archived recording (ross perot) I want to be your president. [cheers and applause] archived recording (CHANTING) We want Ross!

michael barbaro

Ross Perot, a Texas billionaire who, in 1992, mounted the most successful third-party presidential candidacy in modern American history, winning 19 percent of the vote against Bill Clinton and George H. W. Bush, has died.

archived recording (ross perot) Well, we’re $4 trillion in debt. We’re going into debt an additional $1 billion — a little more than a $1 billion — every working day of the year. Now, it’s not the Republicans’ fault, of course, and it’s not the Democrats’ fault, and what I’m looking for is who did it. Somewhere out there, there’s an extraterrestrial that’s doing this to us, I guess. And everybody says —

michael barbaro

Perot, who made his fortune selling computers, attracted millions of voters by railing against the federal deficit, mocking the two-party system as dysfunctional, and decrying free trade deals like Nafta for exporting American jobs overseas, laying the groundwork for both the Tea Party and President Trump years later.

archived recording (ross perot) All these fellows with thousand-dollar suits and alligator shoes running up and down the halls of Congress that make policy now — the lobbyists, the PAC guys, the foreign lobbyists, what have you — they’ll be over there in the Smithsonian, you know. [AUDIENCE LAUGHING] Because we’re going to get rid of them. And the Congress will be listening to the people. And the American people are willing to have fair, shared sacrifice. They’re not as stupid as Washington thinks they are. I believe it would be —

michael barbaro