Fox News host Tucker Carlson defended President Donald Trump’s Thursday comments about immigrants coming to America from “shithole” countries, and said the media’s visceral outrage over the story was preposterous.

Carlson was speaking with Jose Parra, the Latin communications director for former President Barack Obama’s presidential campaign, and said he had visited Haiti and doesn’t understand why people were offend by Trump’s accurate characterization.

“The idea that you are not allowed to say that they’re pretty crummy countries, Haiti for example or El Salvador, I’ve been in both of them — that’s why people are leaving them to come here,” Carlson said. “So I don’t understand what the sin is. You’re not allowed to point out that other countries aren’t as good places to live as America?”

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“I think the outrage here is about the insult and the expletive that is attached to the people who come from these countries,” Parra said.

Carlson pointed out how immigrants are fleeing places like Haiti and Mexico to come to the U.S., and questioned why people should have to lie about it.

“The people who left those countries, some of them rode trains all the way through Mexico or they hid in the wheel well of a plane to leave, they would agree with that. So why the outrage?” he asked. “You have to lie and pretend.”

“We’ve gotten to a place where no one can be honest about anything,” Carlson added.

He then cited the United Nations, which that claims Norway is the most developed country in the world, while Haiti is the “poorest place in the hemisphere.”

“People are actually staying this country right now legally because Haiti is so bad, we don’t think they should have to return. So if you say Norway is a better place to live, and Haiti is kind of a hole — anyone who has been to those countries or has lived in them would agree. But we’re jumping up and down — Oh you can’t say that — why can’t you say that?” he asked.

Parra said it was a “question of values,” and accused Carlson of attaching negative labels to people who come from “predominately brown countries.”

Carlson said the characterization of Haiti being a disheveled country was true, and called out MSNBC for playing the race card.

“If you can’t even say that out loud without being called a racist by people like you and the morons over on MSNBC … anybody who says that’s a racist statement should explain how it is, and you can’t,” Carlson said. “We overwhelmingly give advantage to very poor countries and it’s an honest question, not a racist one.”

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