“I said, ‘I absolutely do not want to do this,’” Curtis remembers. Black Star workers do not wear uniforms.

Worker meetings at Black Star happen monthly, and every worker gets a chance to lead a meeting. This is democratic, but also means that meetings can sometimes cover the same ground again and again, when new worker-owners bring up issues that have been talked about before in the company’s history. Every six months, someone will suggest switching the way ketchup is dispensed, Curtis says. This can be annoying to old-timers, Curtis says, but in the name of democracy, they can’t steamroll the newbies.

“I’m like, ‘We talk about this every 18 months—I don’t care about ketchup, I don’t want to talk about ketchup,” she said. “But then I have to remind myself not to let that expression show on my face.”

Still, Curtis, a one-time union organizer, says she’d choose the worker-run structure over a traditional hierarchy any day.

“People can do so much more when they’re empowered,” Curtis told me. “When people realize they have agency, so many amazing things happen.”

For example, when Black Star was facing a problem that slowed sales—lines out the door because there wasn’t enough seating—the company had its full line of workers to think about the problem and find solutions. The solutions were creative, and have worked, Curtis said. Black Star adopted new point-of-sale systems, started taking orders from places other than just the counter, and moved forward with the plan to cover the patio.

“When we have struggles, we have really creative ways of solving them,” she said. “We have so many minds that see the everyday work.”

Similarly, Red Rabbit has long weekly meetings that sometimes sap the patience of even the most democratically-minded baker. But that’s led to innovation, too.

Jose Rodriguez, one of four new donut worker-owners, says he and another worker-owner have come up with better glaze recipes together than they’d have been able to do alone. Workers aren’t afraid of making suggestions to co-ops, he said, while in traditional companies, they might be wary of getting labeled a troublemaker or know-it-all. Also, workers in traditional settings have no reason to suggest new ideas or to be truly invested in their employer’s success—they get paid whether the company makes a lot of money or a little money. But worker co-ops motivate every employee to do their best, because doing so will help the business thrive.

“It’s an attempt to call on the best of our humanity, try to make things better,” he said.

* * *

It’s hard to imagine that Apple would have made such an impressive comeback in the late 1990s and early 2000s without the strong and sometimes divisive leadership of Steve Jobs steering the launch of new devices such as the iMac and the iPod. Assertive leaders usually rise to the top at companies big and small—everyone else follows their lead. Following directions well is much easier than making up the directions and agreeing on them with your colleagues.