Victor Glushkov

In this article you can read an interview of my most like-minded cybernetic scientist from the past. Glushkov was one of the first people on the Earth who suggested combining a variety of cyber physical systems (CPS) into one net in order to control the economy of the whole country. Of course, he tried to do it in the circumstances of the planned economy. But as cybernetics scientist he has already understand the fact that production should be controlled and would be controlled by automated systems in 1970s. Also Glushkov got the fact that these systems should be able to communicate with each other and coordinate their issues.

Soviet union SCI-FI WRITING CLUB

Today we introduce to “Science Fiction” an outstanding soviet scientist, academician Victor Mikhailovich Glushkov.

The science that he does is rather close to science fiction. Plenty of ideas put forward by him initially seemed sci-fi-esque too. Even his rapid pathway to science could become not a bad story for a sci-fi novel.

Well, probably not. His pathway is logical and it’s also a striking example of a strong-minded persevering person in our socialist society.

He was accepted to the Department of Physics and Mathematics in Rostov University in 1947 and excellently graduated from it …just in a year. Being 28 years old, he was already a Candidate of Sciences. At the age of 32, he was a PhD. At last, when he was 40 he became an academician. As for now, he is the vice president of Academy of Sciences of Ukraine, the director of Cybernetics Institute and the head of one of its divisions, the main editor of the journal “Cybernetics” and a member of editorial board of many other scientific publications, a consultant at the highest level, a lecturer in the biggest lecture halls, an advisor of different committees and subcommittees, etc. Too numerous to mention.

This time it was economic concerns and computer applications in management of the national economy. Those were the ideas, which were called primary tasks in the directives of Communist Party Congress XXIV. He set himself a really sci-fi task: to create such automatized systems that would be genuine AI and true helper both in management of the national economy and in science, literature, art and many other fields increasing human capabilities.

The academician V. M. Glushkov answers the questions of the journalist G. Maximovich.

- Victor Mikhailovich, nowadays there have been increasing such words as “cybernetics, automation”, “Distributed Control System” in newspapers. And it is easy to understand. Now when the technological revolution entrenched in our life it’s just impossible to do without automation equipment. Tell us please, what will cybernetics be and what functions will it assume at the turn of XX and XXI centuries?

- It’s not easy to make any predictions about such fast developing field as cybernetics. History has witnessed how big unexpected discoveries at times profoundly changed trends and nature of development of many areas of science and technology, which seemed to have totally settled.

Could anyone predict 50 years ago for example ways of atomic energy developing? Even the leading professionals of the last century couldn’t have believed that an ordinary ray of light can cut a steel sheet within seconds and weld on a detached retina as laser does it today.

Could a man traveling in a troika imagine that it would not be too long before the way from Moscow to New York took him just a few hours? Could he also believe that he would need a few days to get from the Earth to the Moon?

As well as it’s rather difficult for me to say for sure what cybernetics of XXI will represent and what new functions it will take. However proceeding from the development trends of this science and from what has already been done for today I’ll try to do it. Where do we start?

- Ideally from the very essence — production. The factories of the nearest future.

- It is understandable the base of tomorrow production will be automated factories. But they will be totally different from those automated plants, which we have nowadays. Today plants of this type are designed for release of constant timeless product such as concrete, bread, dairy. To change something in the technology or just change the output such a factory has to be fully stopped.

To avoid it the work of such plants should be based not on a mechanical principle but on a cybernetic one. What does it mean?’

Production base at such a plant will be automated lines designed on the basis of machines with programmed control. Our industry already produces such machines. They have worked well and allow increasing productivity 3–4 times as well.

It’s enough to visit a modern plant to see how they work. Following the instructions recorded on a punched or magnetic tape a machine processes details itself, which sometimes weight tones. It changes itself the working mode. It knows when it’s necessary to tap the screw, mill, grind away or perform other operations.

- Yes, but anyway it’s a human who must change line and details. How can it be combined with the idea of factories without workers?

- You forgot it was about machines with programmed control working in an ordinary guild at a factory of the present day. We’re talking about factories of the future. Such factories will pass human labor to machines.

How will it look? Almost the same like in the works of science-fiction writers. Mechanical beings (robots) will dash about among machines. Of course, they won’t become some kind of metal good lookers resembling human beings.

They will probably look like some trolleys on wheels with one or two manipulator capable to move at all spatial scales.

Don’t think that such robots will appear in far future. The equipment with programmed control mentioned above is in fact the first step towards robot era. Electronic engineering with its new opportunities rapidly reduces the distance to this era. Even today robots with vision able to detect simplest geometrical objects are being developed.

The truth is they are quite unhandy and expensive and they are less likely to have an artificial eye in the short term. An eye comparable with a human one, which has 5 million nerve cells.

Certainly, a “blind” robot, which sends details to assembling and processing without seeing them just knowing where they are located, is easier and cheaper.

- I wonder who is to control such a device? Hard to believe that it’s possible to program it for all life situations.

- No doubt, it’s impossible to program a machine so that it resolves in all unforeseen situations. Although robots adapt themselves to changing working conditions there are already, for example, machine tools with adaptive control which choose themselves modes of cutting depending on the hardness, allowance amount on a blank, tool wear rate, etc. However, robots maintaining machines don’t need it. They will be controlled as the whole automated-factory by automated control system ICS. It will monitor machines work and robots activity. Nobody knows better than it what details are necessary for each guild, what details need transferring from one guild to another, and what details require delivering to the store. ICS will give orders to lines and separate machines to release new product.

The same computer will write programs for all machines and robots.

- And what about you, Victor Mikhailovich, how do you see the work of an automated factory in general?

- Broadly speaking the picture of such a factory is already clear. As I’ve already mentioned main producers will be machines with programed control and robots. Nevertheless, this is so to say the lowest stage in hierarchy at a plant. And it is unlikely to manage with work without upper leading stage. So let’s look at all production from the beginning.

One of the main parts in control stage is automatized design system. It will design new product of a plant. To tell the truth it will work so far under the guidance of a human and apparently it won’t manage to avoid designing by the end of the century. It is not that big a deal for an automated factory. A few people will work at such a plant anyway. Let’s just say, only 10–15 people. However, they will stay at the plant. Maybe designing will become the only one field occupied by people.

Nevertheless, let’s continue our mental excursion around a future plant. So new product is designed by computer even if with the assistance small number of people. Automatically developed constructions are passed to another machine that is responsible for control. To produce several kinds of product at the same time details should be sent to assembling lines in a certain order. Controlling machine will see to that. To be exact it will provide product issue according to pre-arranged orders.

Don’t think that product issue according to personalized pre-arranged orders is a fad. No. This is a vital need of present day. The thing is that unfortunately there are often ups-and-downs in consumption. Over the years, the tendency to fluctuations in demand is more visible. Within such a situation, a plant needs reserves.

However, no two reserves are alike.

It is one thing for an enterprise has raw materials, supplies, tools, details in reserve and it’s a whole other thing to have stocks of finished products. Some years ago, they were really considered necessary. They have stood firm even today but only in terms of traditional kind of product. Industrial product is updated faster in developing of scientific and technological revolution. Hardly a couple of month go by and even those machines that seem to be modern and perfect are provided an update and improved.

Take, for instance, cybernetic engineering: how can you make storage devices of computers in advance?

It will not be too long before they outlive their usefulness never reaching a consumer. We can consider another more familiar to everybody field household products. The demand on it is very changeable and depends both on fashion and on prestige of goods. Call at a shop of electronics and you will see: some TVs are gathering dust while others are sold out at once. So can we talk about any reserves in such a case? They won’t remove lack as well as slow down the issue of new models harming production as materials and labor are withdrawn from circulation.

This happens because in most cases production focuses on impersonal market, abstract consumer whereas it should focus on implementing on pre-arranged orders. For example, French firm “Renault” has been making more than half cars according to individual orders for a long time.

- However, we took our mind off the travel round the plant of tomorrow again. So who will be responsible for production at such a plant?

- All production information will enter for the third machine. Its duty is to calculate programs for each machine and each robot. Probably it will deal with cutting out of main material whether it’s metal, plastic or usual fabric. Don’t get me wrong: cutting out isn’t easy to do. It’s rather complicated and requires a lot of mathematical calculations and sometimes even sixth sense.

Today only extensive experience of people is a criteria in cutting out of material for semi-products. Since there is often no time to do math in the guild and it’s necessary to guess what amount of semi-product will come out of remaining material and how to minimize its throw-outs.

As I said before the third computer will apparently do this at an automated plant. It will also select necessary materials, tools, etc. If the plant ran out of something, the computer will make an order for the plant-supplier and central supply base. By the way, the same machine will send broken robots for the repair replacing them for a while to others from the stock. I suppose repairing of such machines will be conducted centrally in specially established workshops.

When all the raw materials, resources and tools have been received and delivered to the guilds, the machine responsible for production will turn on mechanisms. They will start working one by one and robots will obediently transfer details from one operation to another. Blanks will be passed from one machine to another, from line to line, from guild to guild obtaining more and more finished appearance.

At last, robots-assemblers will connect separate nodes and details into one machine.

For clarity, let’s take a plant producing cars for example. Let’s imagine there is an order: a client wants a car with the color 5 (it’s a code of specified color), exterior finish 7, interior finish 2, second-class radio and so on. Some special device places this data on a magnetic card, which is attached to chassis and electronic machine computes at what point of production and which of machines with programmed control is to issue specific, different from others, detail. It also computes at what point and to which place of the assembly line this detail must be delivered.

So the chassis has come up to the place where the motor is attached to it. The readout device gets to know the record on the magnetic card and knowing which engine must be set attaches exactly it (by this time the engine is already delivered by another assembly line). The same happens where body frame is attached to the cassis, finishing and other things are implemented. In the end, a car, which meets individual requirements of the customer, issues from the assembly shop.

This way not only cars but also TVs, fridges, washing machines can be produced.

As far as finished goods get on controlling installation which are controlled by one more computer.

Quality control is a responsible and diligent thing. Modern engineering product consist of hundreds and hundreds details. Faults in some of them can show up not at once. Quite possible that most responsible and complicated nodes have to be checked before they get on the final assembly. However, it won’t change the structure of future plant at all.

Challenges will be program controlled too. Various modules will stand tests at the same showcase. There will be a service robot to detect faults inherent only in the given node. It will act in a special way in each particular case.

- Viktor Mikhailovich, it turns out from what you said that to control such an automated factory it’s necessary to have four computers. Why can’t we create only one to deal with all of these tasks?

- I told about four proceeding from what we have for today talking about electronic computing. In addition, I’m confirmed such automated factories could appear by the end of current half a decade. Nevertheless, such factories are not yet built. However, one computer of the fourth generations can successfully tackle all the work on manufactory controlling.

- What manufactory in your opinion should switch over to full automatization in the first turn?

- I consider, first electronic manufactory should be switched over to automatized production. I say it not because I’m a cybernetician and this issue affects me personally.

The thing is that as an expert I’m well aware it’s not only unacceptable but also impossible to create computers using old methods.

Despite first generation machines were massive, difficult and operated on dozens of thousands vacuum valves there were just several dozen kinds of valves. So the assembly could be conducted by hand and it was more like mechanisms composing from details of tinker toys.

Installing of second generation computers turned out somewhat more difficult. What about the machines of the third and especially the fourth generation the matter is much more complex. Try connecting thousands of small integrated circuits manually when almost each of them is unlike the previous one.

Under these circumstances, the technology of production and verification of circuits should be not strict but program-controlled. It’s very important. Everyone knows how big production costs are when manufacturing such circuits. Frequently it’s possible to select a very few with faultless features from each manufactured ensemble. As far as circuits get more complex, they are more and more difficult to test: for instance, a circuit of 60 elements with 14 contacts needs more than 150 tests (if there are hundreds of elements in the circuit then several thousands of tests). All this means that to produce and verify big integrated circuits it’s necessary to have such a process line which can produce different big integrated circuits with high performance.

COMPUTER CURES

- Viktor Mikhailovich, today reading a sci-fi journal you can often meet descriptions of some “electronic doctors”. I mean computers which need just a few minutes to find a disease, assign а therapy, work as home care, etc. I’m sure almost everything written on this topic is true. Tell us, please, how doctors’ labor will look in the nearest future and what will be the destiny of medical institutes and young people studying there.

- Indeed, despite there is fiction in some articles telling about cybernetics introduction into medical practice computers have taken a firm place in many hospitals and clinics round the world. But, again, this isn’t about doctors replacing with machines. It’s about their common work. As this help is sometimes very essential.

In view of this I feel like repeating once again that cybernetics didn’t aim and doesn’t aim to replace other sciences. It just gets itself to them providing a brand new way of researching, mathematical modelling, and mathematical experiment suitable for all the sciences including descriptive ones, which was considered even medicine until recently. Nevertheless, it turned out cybernetics has a lot in common with math.

All the vital functions of an organism is a constant work of its organs whose parameters can well be expressed in mathematical language.

Human is a complex mechanism consisting of 200 simplest machines and 1027 atoms. During some movement, he develops power equivalent to 0.1 of horsepower. His heart pumps about 5 liters of blood per minute whose drop contains about 5 million blood cells.

Body withstands enormous air pressure (about 20 tones) which is be balanced by the same from the inside. We take circa half-liter air when breathing while the total capacity of lungs is nearly 4 liter. Human kidneys conduct 1700 liters of blood per day while only 4% of his nervous system are reasonably used.

During one second, our bodies consume 1021 quanta of energy.

If we try defining its working capacity, we will have to note that a human is a device with rather a low efficiency output: for 8 hours, an average worker does the work equivalent to 280 thousands meter-kilogram. If we compare it with electricity, its price will be 4 kopecks.

This is an approximate mathematical picture of a human. Now we will try composing his cybernetic picture. To do this first we’ll conduct structuring. In other words, we’ll detach separate big elements of human body. There are not so few of them (not less than 10 thousands). These are organs, glands, control systems, etc.

After that, we’ll set the parameters of each system. For sure, they will differ widely and they can be expressed in numbers not always: for example, the mucous membrane of bowels can be normal, mean, depressive, etc. It’s rather difficult to evaluate these things.

Then we’ll try imagine nature of human communication with environment. There is the type of morning exercises which he does (or doesn’t) every morning (or regularly), the kind of sport that he likes and the type of his work showing the share of physical activity and brainwork. All of this can be evaluated on a scale of 1 to 10.

Afterwards personal traits of human character (choleric, sanguine one, etc.) are entered into the computer. It can be also expressed using numbers.

In that way we get an individual model of human from the system of all the structures and parameters. What is more it will be really individual as all the parameters of different people can’t conform. Even twins differ from each other with something.

- I can see what a huge work must be done to develop a human model. But what is the role of cybernetics here?

- We count human body as a big system. Being a big system any modern company can’t be managed by only one person as well as a doctor can’t be an expert in all the fields of human body.

There are a lot of different areas in medical science having appeared long ago. All the processes, systems and organs are studied by specialists of different sciences. The more knowledge is accumulated the deeper and faster medical science is divided.

Doctors deepen their knowledge in one specific and sometimes very narrow field. And as they say it turns out, he knows everything about nothing.

Endocrinologists are clueless about neurophysiology, abdominal surgeons knows nothing about brain surgery, etc. Nevertheless, everything is interconnected! In spite of being expert in one field one man is unable to know all things about a body. He just can’t absorb all sorts of information contained in human body. To treat someone a doctor needs to have a complete picture of the patient’s health situation. You know it happens sometimes that for instance an expert in glands of internal secretion reached certain conclusions and described in detail the impact of these glands on digestion. Let’s say he found that when changing the activity of thyroid gland some changes also happen in pancreas gland on average in three months, which in turn leads to disorders of digestion. Unfortunately, in this his chain of knowledge breaks off. As for the doctor studying digestion, he knows how it’s connected with blood-vascular system and the impact on brain. However, he is unaware what processes occur in brain.

An expert of brain activity analyzes only the processes of brain and so on. So what should we do in such cases?

Of course, we can invite all the specialists at the bed of a patient. However not every hospital is with a complete staff in all fields. To gather them from other hospitals is quite complicated. So who will summarize various information and find the exact disease?

Certainly, only cybernetics!

Only it can gather and combine the achievements of all the sciences on human and show deviations from the norm in a human body.

It’s necessary to use all the knowledge got by humanity over history of medical science existence. To do this we need to place on record all the mentioned above 100 thousand parameters.

Three or fine experts in each field of medical science will describe briefly the given parameter, specify its optimal value, the changes happening with it and emphasize a couple of most representative situations causing these changes.

Step by step all human body will be described. Surely, some parts of this description will turn out to be not exact. Nevertheless, it’s not that big a deal. We need not some exact man but some abstract person containing both health and diseases.

Then all these parameters will be divided into groups. Some groups will include the parameters the values of which depend on the person himself: his behavior, work, nutrition and medicines he takes. Other groups will contain the parameters whose values don’t depend on human at all.

As soon as such a division has been finished cyberneticians will start their work. They will insert all this information about human to the machine. It will be that overall doctor to find any disease.

- Ok, the data is in the computer and it starts to understand all human diseases no worse than any professor does. So how does it work helping the doctor to find a disease?

- A man planning to go on vacation apply to us.

We promptly find out what can happen to his liver, mucous membrane, heart, etc. in some new environment. I mean using those 100 thousands parameters.

As it is commonly known that climate changes and other things influence on human body. In other words, we make a tiny step in hundred thousand directions in each similar case. When the work is done and we know how each organ will respond to being on vacation we can say for sure if should go there or not. Moreover, we can find out if a patient should take some medicine or not, settle for surgery or it’s better to wait for some time or maybe even refuse.

No doubt, you can note it can be done without a computer as we used to do. However, following tradition way it will take us very long time. Sometimes it’s just impossible.

Computer accelerates this process by million times. As it takes only one tenth of a second to check one parameter. It means in only ten minutes a council of best specialists will take place and you will be aware what you should do and avoid. It’s not a rare case when a computer finds the disease not only faster but even more correctly than a specialist. It happened many times when conducting a surgery, a surgeon made sure that the computer was more correct than he was.

All of it is possible due to cybernetics provide a mean to collect the multiplicity of facts together and perform some kind of mental experiment with an unreal sick body. It can take the description of his organs activity in different states and the result will be the prediction of development. By the way, cybernetics opponents denied exactly this possibility of predicting.

- Do you mean cybernetics application in medical science is not only reasonable not even necessary?

- Exactly!

- But then commuters should be set in all hospitals?

- Why not? If you have fallen ill and come to the hospital a nurse shows you to some small room and leaves you alone. Actually not alone. You are with a computer.

The computer starts asking questions. At first, they don’t differ from those ones asked usually at the reception desk in an ordinary clinic. The robot asks your first name, your family name, age, gender, address, etc. Then it starts asking about the health state reciting diseases.

When referring to a disease you answer “yes”, “nor” or “don’t remember”.

After that initial medical examination starts. The robot measures your pulse, blood pressure and perform necessary analyses. All these procedures last a few minutes. Nevertheless, it’s enough to complete patient history. If necessary, the computer imprints all this data. Moreover, it will imprint the data, which shows deviation from the norm with red ink.

All of it will not only save a lot of doctors’ time but also make their labor much easier. There are plenty of reasons. First of all, ironically but a patient is more honest and open as a rule with a computer rather than with a human. He can tell a heartless electronic being even what he feels shy to share with a doctor. There is another important factor.

For example, the method to track patient history hasn’t changed for nearly two hundred years. During this time, many ways to treat appeared and got out of date. Today we have new complex instruments: cobalt guns, artificial lung, artificial blood-circulation apparatus and a lot more. And only to make notes and find diseases we still need paper and a pen.

Just have a look how at least patient histories look like!Who is a frequent visitor of clinics and hospitals knows that they are thick books with many pages of different color and size. There are results of various analyses, X-ray patterns, ECG, etc. An additional point is that notes in such patient histories are made by different people whose handwritings are sometimes hard to decipher. They are not classified.

Patient histories kept in the memory of “electronic brain” take thousand times less space than those ones, which we are used to. Moreover, they can be kept much longer. In addition, it will be always easy to find them. If you are in the same hospital, which you have already visited, it will be enough to tell the index or last name. The computer will find in its catalogue your patient history composed more detailed than a human would do.

The computer will print it out and pass it to the doctor’s table. All the new information about you (made analyses, new diseases) is recorded on IBM Cards or dictated by the doctor on the tape recorder. It is done to let new information get immediately to the patient history and keep it up-to-date. The data is written down in a clear way and doctors and nurses can easily read it. Therefore, if you get to a new doctor he has no problems learning about your previous illnesses and how a new one is proceeding. Also based on collected data the computer can make a provisional diagnosis as I’ve already said.

As you can see computer application at healthcare centers is required. Machines let doctors spend more time with patients. Since doctors have all the information about the run of patients’ diseases in easy-read version treatment can be provided much faster. Among other things computer will never forget to call out a patient to follow-up examination for example in a year and will be able to remind the doctor or nurse about it.

ORIGIN OF SELF-AWARENESS

- Victor Mikhailovich, today cybernetics and science fiction are not far from each other. We can often hear how disputes about possible rise of the machines and other cybernetic problems arise. I don’t believe in rise of the machines. However, I’m sure that cybernetics of tomorrow hold such unexpected ways of using which now seem to us absolutely unreal. Do you feel like telling about it?

- I can tell about human self-awareness passing into machine. Moreover, it’s not by chance but purposely. And you will find that there’s just a step away from reality to science fiction.

- It’s not quite clear what you mean.

- I’ll explain. Using a computer a man types orders, corrects texts, draws sketches and schemes with a visual pencil and other things like that.

In a little while, a man will be able to talk with a machine as if it was another person.

Nevertheless, we don’t expel the opportunity of absolutely different cooperation of human and machine. Now scientists are studying the problem of transferring information to machine using bioelectric current in real earnest.

They place a person in a special helmet, which harvests current impulses isolated from the brain during its activity. These impulses will be deciphered, translated into machine language and fed information into computer. The translation into machine language will probably be necessary, as brain is likely to work in a completely different way in comparison with computer. In a nonnumeric way. As a result, all information, all thinking process will put itself directly into a computer. It will absorb all the orders of human as soon as he thinks about them.

Now try answering to the question: what human self-awareness is…

You needn’t try. Even none of experts can answer to this seemingly simple question with complete confidence in his rightness yet. Scientists haven’t settled mind if self-awareness is genetically inheritable or it’s a projection of information received by us from the outside, from communication with others and environment, in other words the result of our thinking. And this, the second, option is real enough. It’s possible that all of us learn who we are while learning ourselves, the world around and meeting similar beings.

Try answering me: what is exactly you, what is your physical shell, which, by the way, constantly change, or your thoughts that suffer some changes but stay the activity product of your brain? Certainly, you can contradict in between having said that even thought are sometimes taken from books or communication with somebody. It’s partly true as in this case you interpret them in your mind. They somewhat lead your way of thinking but don’t become our thoughts themselves.

- On the basis of a famous quotation: “Cogito, ergo sum” (I think I mean I exist), — we can make a conclusion that any of us is our thoughts, not external or physical structure. Human character is composed exactly of thoughts, memories, the way of thinking and not of physical characteristics. Although they make impact on human too, on his state of mind. It’s a known fact that a lot of beautiful people, first of all women, are cold, egoistic and tough minded. People having some physical defects are most often shy. Of course, it’s sometimes differently. But such exceptions only confirm the rule.

- Oh well, broadly speaking it’s right. Nonetheless keep in mind that particular traits of character are developed not by appearance itself but they are instilled by the person himself, by this brain and mind.

- I agree that’s true.

- I’ll give examples confirming in part that identity of a person is first of all his thoughts. A man had an accident. He survives with the help of doctors. Nevertheless, his appearance is deformed so much that his family can hardly recognize him. But he started speaking, remembered something and some contact between him and his talkers appeared. The appearance became pointless. You can also imagine another situation. A man goes crazy because of some severe illness.

In appearance, this poor one is still the same as before the illness. However, try talking to him and you can’t recognize him. It’s absolutely another person talking to you with his own unclear for you way of thinking.

And now let’s imagine that we’ve already reached the complete symbiosis of people and machines: the work of our brain is completely compatible with the work of computer. I suppose scientists can achieve it in about 2020. In other words less than in half a century. In such a case computer is provided with our feelings, emotions, attitude to people and things around (in general our attitude to life) by means of communication with us. To put it in a nutshell I transfer all the information collected over the lifetime to computer.

However, I can still realize that I am who I am.

Now let’s take the fact that self-awareness inheritable not genetically and it’s the result of information collected while exploring life as a point of departure.

Then at some final stage of information transfer, suddenly I start feeling that I am who I am and at the same time, I am also a machine. Some kind of mind splitting happens as I’ve transferred my feeling of self-awareness to the computer together with the information. While we are connected with cables, this feeling is not so strong since we belong together to some kind of a single organism. And now let’s imagine that everything connecting us is off and my self-awareness passed to computer. I am looking at my body with the eyes of computer like at something unfamiliar.

Will it frighten me? Proceeding from the phrase “I think, therefore I am” I consider that I won’t be so afraid as I’ll remember that human is mortal. Although in XXI century medical science will probably be able to prolong life maybe even up to the age of 150–200 anyway there is some limit. So even our most optimistic predictions won’t make us immortal by that time.

As for computer, it is almost immortal. Moreover, it’s provided with our way of thinking, mental step and everything mentioned above. Furthermore, it can think, calculate, consider much faster than we can. Along the same lines, it can adopt any kind of information quite faster than a human can.

- Ok, but still is there any limit for the life of even absolutely perfect computer?

- Certainly, there is such a limit. However, if we manage to transfer our self-awareness together with all the information of the brain by that time, getting old, computer is likely to do the same with another machine.

In this rather simple way, your mind what means you yourself in some part will migrate to even more perfect cover. By the way, it will help your identity almost immortal.

We can imagine another situation. For instance, someone set off to space travel, which will last for example a thousand Earth years. He can clearly understand that maybe he won’t return despite anabiosis. Can we be quite sure that he wouldn’t like to leave himself in this specific machine cover here, on the Earth? I think no. indeed there are already some millionaires in the west in hopes to be not only awoken over some time but also brought young blood or released from some illness, which is leading to death now.

It goes without saying, in the context of transition to other self, different moral, ethic, philosophic and other problems may and probably will appear. All in all, I’ve told only a hypothesis. Up to this day we don’t know yet what is the center of human mind and what is the nature of it.

That’s why now we shouldn’t express our attitude to such an opportunity. Time will tell whether my hypothesis is true.

- Although you proclaim that everything what was said is only a hypothesis the thought has crossed my mind that it’s possible to apply self-transition of human to computer. If I got it right such information exchange between human and machine is probable in any direction: each of us will be able to transfer thoughts to computer and it will transfer them to human immediately upon request.

- True for you.

- Then as an example let’s take the same astronaut who is setting off to a very long and complicated flight. Sure enough, it’s necessary to fall back on anabiosis to let the man go through the whole flight. It’ll allow the astronaut travel in the great estates of the universe.

But if the man doesn’t die during his difficult journey will it be easy for him to get over the tragedy of the situation returning to the native Earth? After all having woken up, he’ll find himself in an absolutely foreign and unknown world. Meanwhile all his family and friends will have disappeared. Moreover, a good dozen of generations will change. Maybe he’ll be welcomed as a hero on the native planet. Nevertheless, it won’t help matters. He won’t just get used to this world with its new and unfamiliar culture, customs, morals, habits. In other words, he’ll return to a foreign planet.

- I agree, the picture described by you not a happy one. But how can computers help this astronaut in such a difficult situation?

- Very easy. Let’s turn back to your hypothesis. The astronaut transferred his mind to machine before such a long trip. As you proved it, in such a condition it can live almost forever. The man has flown away and his other self lives in security in computer. However, it isn’t just stored there it lives a full-blooded intelligent life getting all the necessary information from outside right along. Since the other self has its attitude to life, its problems it undergoes all the event around. To cut a long story short the other self lives producing its attitude to one or another changes caused by new achievements in science, culture, social changes. In sum it exists in real world almost as well as the man would exist himself.

In addition, computer could choose only that information which would interest the man. In this case his other self.

If the computer gets old, it transfer this mind to a more modern computer, i.e. his life doesn’t stop even for a moment.

And now let’s imagine that the astronaut’s returned. As we have already figured out everything is new and unusual for him. Then he finds his other self in one of the newest computers. Puts on a special helmet and after some time he knows how his other self responded to one or another events, what was its attitude, learns about its likes and dislikes. It’ll let him find friends easier and make sense out of people around.

As all of them will be familiar to him.

Of course it could be argued that human brain can’t accommodate everything collected by his other electronic self for such a long time. However, I believe computer will be able to select only necessary information from everything. By the way, the possibilities of human brain are still not completely known. Maybe they are much bigger than what we use for today. Nevertheless, it’s all kind of technical.

So is it all real in your opinion?

- You’re developing your way of using the opportunities of direct contact between human and computer basing on a hypothesis which isn’t yet proved. In theory with some exceptions such an option seems to be quite possible. Any way if it becomes real it’ll happen in XXI century. So let’s return to the problems closer to us.

ELECTRONIC CREATOR

- Victor Mikhailovich, creative computer opportunities develop year by year. There are poems written by computer, pictures created by it, etc. If we sum up, we can see that computer lays claim to those fields, which have been always considered human liberty. Is it all really possible?

- Let’s take architecture as an example. Absolutely different kind of information is if not particularly primary so at least very important in this type of art. The method of processing received experiment data itself is improved all the time.

For clarity, let’s consider one example at least from geological exploration. Let’s say we conducted an explosion and made an earthquake record. Such earthquake records come laden with a lot of data. But today you and I need to find out only one thing: is there any oil in this area? In terms of it we process the given earthquake record. Well, we should remember there definitely will be a new way developed to process earthquake records and we’ll face new tasks of defining other mineral resources. So will it really be necessary to conduct explosions again?

Certainly, there’ll be no need.

It’s just needed initial data processed in a certain way to be kept not on paper but a magnetic tape of computer in digitized form.

The problem of standardizing the devices storing the data received as a result of the experiments is no less important. Today we have really a lot of such devices. All of them differ from one another. These are diagrams, filmstrips and various paper strips. Nonetheless, it’s much more reasonable to reduce all this diversity of everything to 5–10 devices which will be easily read by computer.

Cybernetics development considerably determines further success of engineering progress.

- We started our talk from artistic creativity. So how does machine approve itself in the field of art?

- As for instance architecture. Visual image plays if not a major but at least very important part in this kind of art. It makes the work more complex and also more interesting. There are three screens on the table in front of a person. Three projections of a future building or a flat are displayed on them. Using the keyboard, you can set different types of geometric transformations. For instance, I can ask the machine to show how the building will look like from the square. I give an order: “Flip it through 35° for me”. The building appears on the screen exactly in this projection right away.

It all starts with a sketch. It’s easy to make with a visual pencil on the screen. If something is not very successful, the sketch can be corrected or deleted. When I am drawing machine is providing a better draft on the screen. Once again, I can introduce corrections if necessary.

So we reached consensus and I order to place flats on the floors and prove the layout.

Machine performs it rather fast, literally in a split second. Here is the layout and I can notice that there are two flats, whose doors open into another door. Computer didn’t manage to anticipate the space of the site. By means of visual pencil, I can fix it. Computer takes into account this correction and provides rooms square, living room spaces, the solidity of lift slabs, etc.

And that’s when the operation I mentioned happens: looking over the finished building all round. If I find this project satisfactory, I press the button and machine starts issuing drafts.

As you can see in case of computer and human cooperation all rough work is implemented by machine. Art remains with architect. He’ll be able to show his selfdom in full measure.

- Apparently, some points of art, first of all its esthetic, individual and intuitive parts, can’t be translated into machine language. Does it mean that automatization in artistic creativity is almost impossible?

- Not quite. Computer can become and it will definitely become an essential human helper in artistic creativity. Especially where perfect and accurate graphic language of communication with machine is able to make it co-designer.

- Honestly, it sounds like a miracle. Machines work only with numbers and it’s only a private form of information which people has to face in their variable intelligent activity. We all know computer can control economy almost at any scale. But poems, music.. They are so far from any numbers.

- Yes, at first sight such uncertainty seems quite reasonable. However, it’s only at first sight.

That’s the point, that numeral method of assigning information turns to be cross functional. Any symbolic information can be encoded with numbers. Seemingly having read a lot of detective novels, you wrote your friends telegrams in code yourself writing counting numbers in the alphabet instead of letters. It’s the easiest type of translating symbolic information into numeral one. Nevertheless even in view of it alphabet can be expanded as one wishes. It can include punctuation marks, space mark, any special symbols, the letters of foreign alphabets, in short everything what can be needed.

Now let’s imagine that we need to translate a text from Russian into English or conversely. If we encode all the letters with their numbers in Latin alphabet in original, for example English, text and introduce the received information into computer it’ll be in familiar environment. Let us assume that we succeeded in drawing up a program of machine work so that it can modify received sequence of numbers containing Russian translation in encoded form. It’s quite clear that it’s not difficult to decode the received translation into usual for us symbolic form.

Modern computers are usually provided with automatic letter-printing devices. Therefore, information can be got at once in required symbolic form. By the way, the task of automated encoding of original text typed on typewriter is also solved with the help of special set-top boxes for computers, reading machines.

Thus, the most difficult part of work will be exactly translation of encoded English text into encoded Russian one. This part of work is fulfilled by computer only at numeral information. There is no magic way of translation.

Everything is much more down-to-earth. However, it seems to me this example must convince you that almost any symbolic information can be translated into numeral one. In addition, it’s not so hard.

Experiment in machine translation were conducted in our country even in the 1950s. Meanwhile machines learnt to translate technical and scientific texts and newspapers properly. The situation with literature is rather difficult. Not always computer understands word pictures, metaphoric expressions, etc.

When it starts translating it word for word, we get, as you can understand not literature but something foolish.

To translate literature we need a system human-machine. An expert, translator- writer, working in cooperation with computer must correct everything what it translates phrase by phrase. Although it’s quite a demanding, hard and slow work such a system is very advanced. At this co-operative translation machine saves up to 70% of translator’s working time. Despite computer has no artistic sense it makes translation very fast. The delay involves only how fast translator can impart artistic, bookish form to the text. So it is worth developing such a co-operation.

- Does it turn out that computer performs so to say the duties of a word-by-word translator?

- Yes, its work can be called like this.

- Is there any hope of using computers in poetry? As far as I know machines try composing poems.

- No doubt, in the nearest future computer can become a great helper of poets. But exactly a helper, not a poet.

We have already discussed with you what a huge memory machine has. It means it can store countless amount of different rhymes besides other information. At the order of human, it can produce as many as he wishes. The only the poet will need is to choose the most suitable from this enormous stock. What it will result in, what a poem will be written is the matter of taste and talent of human.

Computer is also good at conducting analyses of literary styles. Certainly, when we have to deal with famous works we (or at least specialists) can make sense out of it without computer help. Each genuine poet or writer has his own style. That’s why we can never mix up the works of Pushkin and Lermontov, Shevchenko and Lesya Ukrainka, Mayakovsky and Blok, Tolstoy and Turgenev. Unfortunately, not always literary critics have to work only with the works signed by the author.

In such cases, heated debates often occur between literary critics.

For instance, humankind admires genius ancient Greek epos “Iliad” and “Odyssey” for centuries. As much as the argument about its authorship lasts: if they belong to Homer or he just collected folk tale of different poets. And if he wasn’t the author of “Iliad” was it he who wrote “Odyssey”?

Recently one American scientist managed to figure it out. The truth is, he is not a literary critic but a cybernetician. The work on the authorship attribution was rather hard. First, the pieces of work whose authorship didn’t cause arguments were compared. To do this IBM Cards with imprinted iambs in the form of code on them were introduced into computer.

It turned out that one author uses unstressed syllable instead of stressed one in 20 cases out of a 100.

No matter what kind of work we take, this proportion will be roughly speaking equal.

As soon as the regularity was established, it was up to “Iliad”.

All its 15693 lines were imprinted on IBM Cards. Since computer processed them, electronic literary critic marked all stylistic particular qualities of the text, which earlier escaped the attention of scientists. After their comparison, it was proved the author of immortal “Iliad” is Homer.

Later the same way it was found that Homer is the author of “Odyssey”. Thus with the help of computer it was possible to resolve a centuries-long dispute of literary critics.

Machine will help writers too. That’s how it’ll be. An author is typing a text and the lines appear on the screen at once. If he needs to correct something, he uses a visual pencil. Computer immediately takes into account this correction, moves lines and pastes additions.

When final editing is ready, at the command a couple of text copies are printed.

You can have a panel and a screen even at home. It’ll let you work with computer even if it’s in another city. Indeed, the connection with it can be carried out by phone.

- However, everything you’ve just said is about so to say symbolic information. At the same time, you told that computers can be applied almost in all the spheres of brainwork.

How can computer cope with visual or audio information? After all if we can have a computer-artist or composer it means it doesn’t matter for machine in what kind of form information is. Is it so?

- Multipurposeness of numeral method of information presentation doesn’t get broken even if we proceed from symbolic information to optional visual one, i.e. to sketches, pictures, etc. In fact, each visual image isn’t so difficult to be divided into very small simple pieces the same as it’s done in TV or phototelegraphy. And what is next everything is very easy.

It’s enough to explore these pieces in any particular order of priority. Measuring their brightness, we can encode the picture as a series of numbers. If we need to encode a color image, brightness is defined in three main colors.

In a nutshell, almost any kind of information can be encoded with a numeral way: audio, visual, etc.

Modern technology has in its possession all manner of devices to encode and decode audio, visual and other kinds of information. Certainly, not all of these devices are brought to perfection. Nevertheless, as you can understand it is under scrutiny. What matter is possibility of it. Improvement and development of such devices are the matter of time.

- How do you picture computer application in artistic creativity?

- Of course, computer can and will definitely become an essential helper in artistic creativity. Let’s say in creating cartoons. It’s for far too hard work. It takes sometimes even a year to make a cartoon. Having taken upon itself a fair share of work, computer will reduce the time cinematographic work a lot. There’re a couple of interaction types between human and machine. People can draw only initial and final stages of film characters’ movements. Electronic artist will draw all photoscript and intermediate stages. Or another option: it’s given only separate film details (house, tree, dog, leg, arm, characters’ head) and program for composition.

That’s another way of doing it. I’m sitting at the panel. There’s a screen in front of me and control keyboard. I give an order: give me a tree. 50 versions of trees appear on the screen. However, I don’t like any of them. I demand some more options and in the end, I find the right one. Then I choose a house the same way. I give an order to put it in the left corner. The machine obeys.

Nevertheless, it seems to me that the window in the house shown on the screen must be different. I give one more order and the window changes. Then I ask to put a man chosen earlier near the window. So the film is being created in cooperation with computer. There’re already similar systems. They allow making cartoons approximately within a week’s time.

- Victor Mikhailovich, can artists use similar systems?

- Yes, they can. Machine is good at manipulating with ornaments. You need only a suitable program. A person has to choose one of hundreds and even as much as thousand options. That’s where the challenge for aesthetic sense is!

What about portrait-painting the situation is much more difficult. Once a machine was ordered to create a picture where the features of ten most beautiful women would be combined. And what do you think? When the picture was ready it portrayed not a beauty but a freak.

The machine couldn’t understand its mistake and considered its work correct. That’s right.

However, there are successful examples. Once such an experiment was hold at the contest of machine art in England. It was needed to draw a picture of an old man. An artist made a realistic outline portray. After that, it was introduced into computer. According to it, the computer produced a picture in the mood of impressionists. The result was pretty good.

As for me I liked the portray a lot. But once again, the machine did it not itself but using some initial data received from human.

Today the future of computer application in art is limited. Nevertheless it should be treated seriously.

- Actually, there were already some contests of musical pieces composed by computers.

They showed that computer-composers are quite talented as at least authors of pop music.

The contest providers knew that some of award panel had preconceived opinion on machine art and that’s why they accidentally on purpose mixed up the songs some of which belonged to computers and the others to people. There were times, when first place passed to machine. When equivocation was exposed not everybody believed in electronic origin of beloved song.

By means of computer, it’s possible to create even musical compositions in imitation of some composer.

Once there was one occasion. All the themes of Bach’s fugues were introduced into a machine. It modified possibilities of melodic construction and composed some music so similar to the work of some great composer as to puzzle specialists. They figured out who the song belonged to not at once.

- Well, that’s fascinating.

However, don’t you think, Viktor Mikhailovich, that computer application in artistic creativity automatization is absolutely unreal.

It’s not because I don’t believe in opportunities of “electronic brain”. The issue is about completely different thing. Indeed, computer is very expensive. Neither a composer nor a writer can obtain it. Even if they are connected with computation center with the help of phone who will allow creative people wasting time for thinking over for a long time while this time can be used more profitable?

- You’re right only about one thing. Any creative person sometimes can spend much time for thinking about one or another problem. An architect looking for bright and impressive contour lines of future building or an artist thinking over, for example, the distinctive and attractive smile of a positive character or a writer working at a dramatic plot twist can search best solution even 24 hours. If computer is out of action patiently waiting for this new solution its using will be nothing less than pointless and thinking of machine-helper will stay just a dream for them.

Consequently, computers should work with different programs simultaneously and get tasks from many panels.

In this case, quick-acting “electronic brain” will implement helper functions in artistic process casually being busy with some serious work at the same time. While the architect has fallen into a muse what exactly he doesn’t like in building contour suggested by machine it will help a graphic designer. At the same time, following a request of the plant director who needs ten or twenty metal-cutting machines urgently, the computer will explore suggestions, which it has and keeps in its memory, and find the addresses of people who have surpluses of machine pool situated near the plant. As it’s more useful for the director and his assistants to address to computer for detailed information that to look through newspaper advertisements every day. On top of all the computer will be able to perform other a lot of work.

TIMELESS MEMORY OF HUMANKIND

-Victor Mikhailovich, of late, many countries proceeded with creating all kind of big automatized systems. I mean not simple automatized systems of plant or economic sector control but as large-scale as nationwide automated data processing and control system for accounting, planning and controlling national economy of our country and different data pools.

Could you tell how such systems will work and what profit hey will bring?

- You possibly know that if control is automatizes on a scale of one business index of effectiveness (profit improvement and product growth) composes nearly 10–15%, for industrial automatized systems 50–60%. After creating nationwide automated data processing and control system, it’ll take more than half a decade to let this figure be no less than 100% I think.

However, it is not a matter of percent. Although it’s important too. The point is that tremendous human memory concentrated in nationwide automated data processing and control system shouldn’t be just memory. Of course, it’s very profitable and comfortable that by the command of an economist the system will give not only the data about how much and where mill products is produced at metallurgical plants but also which plants need these mill products and how much of it. But more importantly, it’ll be able to solve itself the task of how to transport the product to consumers in a more profitable way and will inform about the decision chosen by it. Moreover, computer will be able to check all the consequence of one or another important decision basing on its knowledge of current state and possibilities of nation economy.

In other words, nationwide automated data processing and control system will become not just a vessel f information but also an electronic information system, which will not only incorporate all the information and store it but also provide services for its technical selection and processing in a given plan. This system will also be delegated to conduct any kind of opinion polls where all adult citizens can participate.

-But all of it is relating to nationwide automated data processing and control system, i.e. primarily to control and economy. So what does national data pools mean?

- It’ll be a system of computation centers where specific information will be accumulated. The system will be connected with panels at consumers’ work places. Through these panels they’ll be able to communicate by connection lines with national data pools.

It’s very necessary and of current interest. Indeed, even today people face the problem today that it’s easier sometimes and cheaper to conduct development of some scientific or technical issue and develop a design of one or another device than to find the solution description of this problem or the sketches of a similar device in shoreless sea of collected information.

When such data pools have been created a designer or a scholar will be able to select all necessary information through a remote panel.

In the eyes of English experts, such data pools on science and technology or medical diagnosis will start appearing about 1977, on jurisprudence by 1980. Quite possible, it’ll be done even faster in some countries.

- Victor Mikhailovich, what about cultural monuments? It’s clear how industrial information, invention descriptions and discoveries will be accumulated in computer memory.

Can the same thing be conducted with pieces of art and literature?

- The time is not far off when computers will become not only a depositary of scientific knowledge but also a treasure house of everything created over the years of existing on the Earth. In essence, they will become a huge and everlasting memory. We’ve already discussed that any visual information can be represented in numbers.

It means that improving such reading devices it’ll be possible to divide any picture from any art gallery into smallest pieces. Then the device will estimate the color of them in objective way and divide the color into smaller components like in printing industry in case of multi colour printing.

Priceless treasures of painting can be stored in such digitized form in electronic computer memory as much as you like. In addition to the above, they won’t fade, lose color and be afraid of any spoiling. At the same time, they will be able to be displayed on the screen upon first request. To do this it’ll be necessary to create TV screens of unseen proportions as we’ll need an appropriate screen to display the picture “The Appearance of Christ Before the People” of Alexander Ivanov full size. Although it’s quite possible that another way of displaying such information will be developed.

- And what about, let’s say, sculptures? Screen can’t transmit them.

- I consider it’ll be quite possible to do it through holography. You may know it provides normal three-dimensional image. Thus, people will have little difficulty to display sculptures and landmark with its help.

It is clear that it’ll be much easier with works of literature. It’ll be so easy to put the books of all libraries in the world into enormous computer memory. What about the opportunity of recording music and films on IBM cards I think everyone knows about it.

And again, IBM card gets old much slower than a usual film strip. So it’s even easier with films and music.

- How will all these systems connected with each other and consumers?

- Our vision of connection fundamentally changes. What is present day communication system? It’s only a channel for information transfer, a channel which connects information nuts with properly speaking its limited source. Common connection facility being created in our country will include a huge electronic equipment fleet and turn into integrated system of storing, processing and transmitting information. One of its tasks will be to make connections not only between people but also between machines and between people and machines.

Connecting common connection facility to unified information system means that channel will obtain the information from almost unlimited source.

To tell the truth, creating such an information system will be rather a long process. I’ve already said building nationwide automated data processing and control system will take plenty of time. Networks on the fields of scientific and technical knowledge will be build after creating nationwide automated data processing and control system or alongside. Then networks of cross-cultural knowledge will appear.

After that, we’ll witness their merging.

Creating such a unified information system will bring great benefit to people as well as have a beneficial effect on computer brain. Including computers into such a big system will mean an opportunity of their learning from experience as well as their using all of accumulated knowledge.

- How on Earth will people communicate with this huge branchy system?

- Creating and improving luminous screens, liquid crystal screens and different coping devices will let any of us get quick access to all informational wealth of humankind. Panels of unified information system will appear in every family and become as usual and ordinary as TVs, tape recorders and phones. A subscriber from any city will get any kind from the V. I. Lenin State Library of the USSR and see it on his screen in a few seconds after request. You will be able to have a copy of an ancient manuscript information about a new scientific fact or some materials right away. Maybe newspapers and magazines will stop being published in familiar way. The same screen will show you pages of any published in the country newspaper or journal.

- I dare say it’s quite good. But how to deal with rather a strong human habit to read latest news at the bus stop or in public transport? Should we get rid of it?

- There is no need to get rid of it. All you need will be to look at the screen, choose interesting newspaper page and press necessary button. Special printing device will make a copy at once and you can read it wherever you want.

At your request, you’ll be able to listen to any lecture like those ones being read according to the TV academic program at any time convenient for you. Such lectures can be kept in computer memory.

If you haven’t understand something in this lecture or someone has disturbed you can turn back and listen to necessary part. Moreover, you’ll be able to ask questions to the lector and immediately get answers to them. Many questions have been already asked and the system remembers the answers. So it’ll easily find the answer for you.

This is quite a probable future for computing technics. Let a drawn picture seem to us unreal today but tomorrow it’ll be quite real.

- Victor Mikhailovich, you’ve just said such a system will keep almost all the information accumulated by human both for all history and for the latest five minutes. Can it be assumed that all this mass of information is known for any person? In the end, it can do plenty of harm. I don’t mention defensive or secret data. However, there is information only for some specified groups of people. Let’s say children up to some exact age shouldn’t know what is aimed at adults. In addition a doctor, for example, has no need to know information necessary for a diplomat.

- It’s not a problem at all.

In the end, any kind of information can be encoded. To get the access to it it’ll be necessary to punch a special code on the panel with a keyboard. Panels can be different in separate institutes. By the way, access to secret information is easy to adjust.

As you can see when all information systems become a unified one, it’ll work involving people and for them. Great advantages of the the fairest social structure multiplied by information power of computers will help to create glut of economic and intellectual wealth.

Check your fantasy: try making up some mythic plant in half an hour…

Translated by Katherine Dobriborsci