Man Killed In East Rock

by Melissa Bailey | Oct 28, 2011 4:18 pm

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Posted to: Legal Writes

(Updated 6 p.m.) A rivalry between people in two passing cars erupted into gunfire on a quiet East Rock street Friday afternoon, leaving one man dead. It happened at around 3:40 p.m. on Edwards Street between Orange and Livingston, near the “speed table” recently installed by the city. A male victim, about 23 years old, was shot in the chest, according to police spokesman Officer Dave Hartman. He was rushed to the hospital and pronounced dead shortly after 5 p.m. The incident is the city’s 29th homicide of the year. The act of gun violence, rare for that neighborhood, drew a rush of about 20 police cars to Edwards Street by 4 p.m., a busy hour of pedestrian, car and bike traffic on Orange Street. Police cordoned off the area with crime scene tape, as bicyclists craned their necks to see what was going on. Officer Hartman said according to preliminary information, there appears to have been a confrontation between two groups of people in two different cars, traveling in opposite directions on Edwards Street. The occupants of the cars were involved in a dispute, Hartman said. “It did not originate at this location, but while traversing this quiet street [it] erupts in gunfire.” The cars met near the speed table, where one car blocked the other. “Occupants got out of one car, challenging occupants of the other vehicle,” according to Hartman. “There’s some type of fight in the street.” The fight began as a fist fight. Then “one of the people pulls out a gun and shoots the victim.” The victim was shot in the chest, according to Hartman. Police did not release his name pending family notification. After the shooting, the parties got back in their vehicles and sped off, leaving the victim behind. He was found near the curb on the southern side of Edwards Street and taken to Yale-New Haven Hospital for treatment. Hartman said police do not know the origin of the dispute between the two groups. “It could be—could be—an issue of road rage.” The victim was born in 1988, making him about 23 years old. The incident drew gasps of surprise and dismay from passersby in East Rock. One man, who owns a house on the block where the shooting took place, said his son was visiting the home at the time of the shooting. “My son saw the whole thing,” he said. “It’s heartbreaking,” he said. “In this area, I just can’t believe it.” He said the homes on that block are let at “top-end rental rates.” East Rock Alderman Justin Elicker showed up at the scene to inquire what had happened. “It’s upsetting news and a reminder of how connected we all are in the city to each other’s problems,” he later wrote in an update to East Rockers. Andrea Robinson (pictured) was at her son’s doctor’s appointment nearby when she heard sirens. She said she thought it was a car accident. She in her four years living in East Rock, she never experienced violent crime in the area. “It’s extremely disquieting. It’s always been a safe neighborhood,” she said. At around 4:45 p.m. a Yale School of Management student tried to return to her Edwards Street home and found an officer blocking her way. “I can’t go home?” the student asked. “Not right now,” replied Lt. Patricia Helliger. “I’ve always felt safe” in this neighborhood, the student said later. “I’m certainly not excited to walk home to this.”

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posted by: Nicole Evans on October 28, 2011 5:22pm People wake up! Crime can happen anywhere!!!

posted by: Big Kev' on October 28, 2011 5:22pm Praying for the victim, & all involved. May God Bless them all!!!!

posted by: robn on October 28, 2011 5:23pm So let me get this straight…his friends left him to die shot and bleeding in a gutter?

posted by: New havener on October 28, 2011 6:06pm The mayor and his past police chiefs have at many times stated that the majority of the homicides and shootings are in almost all cases limited to persons involved in past criminal activity and limited to small specific areas of the city. This incident brings the point home that no area, no person is as safe as city hall and the PD would like the citizens to believe, we are all living in a most dangerous city we no one is immune to a stray bullet, will DeStefano and Esserman and their feel good programs be the answer ?

posted by: Ora Yes Nicole, crime can happen anywhere. The problem is this city is leading (sorry 4th most dangerous city in the nation)!

Lets not apologize for an out of control city and a police chief starting soon that believes in visiting criminals in the hospital after they have been shot and break hovac on a neighborhood. Catering to thugs will not make this city any safer. Yes, crime can happen anywhere and that anywhere is right here in our city over and over and over again. Insanity!

posted by: anon on October 28, 2011 7:03pm Crime can happen anywhere but fact is that certain other neighborhoods in New Haven have 20-30x the level of violence of East Rock, Westville or The Cove. This type of event is extremely rare for that neighborhood. Relative to this imagine if 10-15 people were murdered in your neighborhood every year and you can know what it’s like to live in one of New Haven’s poor, African American areas. Yet the City Hall’s solution for those area is to build more parking garages, exclusive office buildings for white folks, and traffic (Science Park YNHH Route 34) and make them even more polluted, isolated and worse off.

posted by: Noteworthy on October 28, 2011 7:31pm DeStefano plays cop commander ordering the watch tower to be moved on the green - and ordering cops to pull back - when there’s a murder, he’s no where to be found. DeStefano has lost command and control of New Haven. It’s chaos.

posted by: natalie on October 28, 2011 7:59pm Are these kids human lemmings? I don’t think the solution is so much about job training programs and extracurricular school activities but about research and psychoanalysis. What kind of anger generates such madness? Where are the guns coming from? Is there some inherent madness in the targeted communities (East Rock excluded)? What is the origin/history of the African American community in New Haven. I have never witnessed anything like this before. My grandson is turning eight; I wish he lived anywhere but New Haven. It is so difficult to protect the kids from the streets.

posted by: Kells on October 28, 2011 8:03pm Why are people so shocked that his happened in East Rock?? It’s still New Haven. No area is immune to gun violence and these people need to wake up and get out of the bubble that they’re living in. High end rental units means nothing, who really cares about that? This is a sad situation. This article is focusing more on where the shooting happened than the actual shooting. Another young life has been taken at the hands of another. Prayers to the family of this young man.

posted by: The Real Story on October 28, 2011 8:35pm The issue at hand is just like the transparency of this administration. The city of New Haven is so out of control because this current Mayor has shown disrespect for the one department whom the men and women have taken an oath to “Protect and Serve”. Did he really think when he was posturing and threatening police personnel that the individuals who are involved in felonious activities don’t know how to read or were on vacation? This is about the state of moral of public safety personnel and the observation by criminals to feel they could run rampant due to the disrespect of this Mayor towards his police department. Citizens including criminals are observant of internal discord and feel they could randomly commit vicious crimes because the cops are only going to be reactionary not proactive. When the Mayor pulled his stunt showing the public he could bully the cops that is when everyone sat up and took notice.

posted by: Villen on October 28, 2011 11:04pm If this homicide happened in the newhallville section aka ville this article would not be this long and it would be delayed until Monday. But let’s see how fast the mayor and police admin give a feel good speech and beef up patrols on overtime for this one. Just my prediction

posted by: Insider98 on October 28, 2011 11:34pm robn,...remember these are cowards,..thugs,...people who have no respect for human life….does it surprise you…....that his “friends” left him there like road kill,.....doesn’t surprise me at all….

posted by: Nownow on October 28, 2011 11:37pm Anon, WHY aren’t murders so common in these areas? Because even the renters, who really have no stake in the city, know not to behave like animals. Where the value of life means nothing. Where it’s easier to moe excuses than to work hard and be thankful for opportunities that come your way. Don’t turn this into a conspiracy theory of the whites. If you focused more attention on the race of the victims and murderers in New Haven, you might help to make a difference in the crime rate next year. If not, prepare to see the black race offing each other at alarming rates!

posted by: Jprff79 on October 29, 2011 12:37am It wasn’t a jealous husband or wife…hmmm I’m shocked

posted by: SaveOurCity on October 29, 2011 12:44am More of the same in the reign of Johnny D….please let us get a new start with a new leader. We need to start turning the corner.

posted by: Sunday on October 29, 2011 1:16am Crime can happen any place. It’s part of then American Culture. If you don’t take measures to correct the problems in the ‘so call hood’ eventually it will spill over into your neighborhood,just like a raging flood when the dam gate open. No community is immune from crime even though some more so than others. That’s why as a people we must come up with a solution to solve these problems because other communities have. My solution is “parenting” because you can not teach a man childish ways. You can only teach him how to become a man when he is a child, if you miss that it is sometimes “way, way” to late.

posted by: Lynda Faye Wilson on October 29, 2011 2:34am IT IS HEART-WRENCHING STATE OF AFFAIRS IN THIS CITY. BUT ALDERMAN ELICKER IS ABSOLUTELY CORRECT, ACCEPT THE TRUTH OR NOT. ONLY HE WAS JUST REFERING TO THIS CITY, WHEN IN FACT, IT’S THE STATE, NATION AND WORLD. AND AS FOR MRS. ROBINSONS’ COMMENT, I GET ANGINA EVERYTIME I HERE THAT STATEMENT FROM SOMEONE FROM A SUPPOSE TO BE PRECEIVED AS AN AFFLUENT NEIGHBORHOOD. i SUGGEST YOU MIGHT CHECK W/NHPD CRIME REPORT OVER THE PAST FOUR YEARS. YOU WILL DEFINITELY FIND IT UNTRUE. IT IS APT TO HAPPEN ANYWHERE/ANYTIME. NO PLACE IS EXEMPT NOR IS ANYONE OF US REALLY “SAFE” IN THE SENSE SHE IS SPEAKING OF. BE AS SAFE AS ONE CAN BE PEOPLE.

posted by: solsbury on October 29, 2011 5:28am Wait, is it a “quiet street”, or a “busy street at that hour?” Why is this article sprinkled with commentary about the neighborhood? Is that done in any other article? Can we have traffic statistics for all the other shootings? And please let’s make sure to repeat three times how rare it is! And how shocked the neighbors are!!!! How dare “they” invade “our” neighborhood! The tone of the article, the neighbor and alderman reaction, and the whole response is what’s wrong with the East Rock crowd… next comes the fence..

posted by: the1king on October 29, 2011 9:14am This gets worse and worse everyday. the 13 year old boy now forgotten due to the next murder. Don’t be surprised another person killed in the next day or so. Let me say great friends of this young man leaving him to die. It shows you that these thugs only care about themselves. If you are a young man thinking about the gang life. They are not your family they really don’t give a crap about you. wake up. There is really help out there. There are teachers who really do care and will help you find your way. There is police out there who really do care. There are adults out there who really do care. We as adults need to step up and show these kids shooting and having guns is not the way. Thats just my little rant.

posted by: respect on October 29, 2011 9:29am I agree that this article is focusing on the area and not the actual crime. Edwards street is about 5 blocks from Newhall Street So why are they so surprised.Crime happens everywhere. You idiots think that because you pay high rent that things don’t happen there. High rent is everywhere. You people only see what you read in the New Haven Register, read the national news and see how much crime is all over the world All race’s.

posted by: pat on October 29, 2011 10:06am How is it that any bozo can get a gun?

Why is New Haven not in a State of Emergency?

Will it take a shoot out on the Yale campus for the authorities to act

more aggressively?

A society that cannot protect itself is doomed.

29 people dead by violence this year is unacceptable.

posted by: Cinderella on October 29, 2011 10:12am I overheard a remark the other day at a coffee shop near the Yale campus that “New Haven is the Achilles’ heel of Yale.” That’s why Yale is shoring up it’s borders, short of an electric fence, and expanding so rapidly into other city neighborhoods. Can’t blame them.

Anyone remember the 70’s and the violence? East Rock was not safe then either. To think it’s safe today is foolish.

posted by: Lifer on October 29, 2011 10:27am Did these new speed tables contribute to the shooting by forcing the two cars to slow down and confront each other? Maybe this should be taken into consideration before any more speed tables are installed around town.

posted by: Tired on October 29, 2011 10:49am When is somebody going to step up and take control of the crime in the city? I live on Bishop street and in recent memory and in the last ear or so 4 cars have been stollen and 3 cars broken into. This is just in a stretch of 7 homes. This is just ridiculous…....

posted by: anon 2.0 on October 29, 2011 11:15am Minot point? If the traffic slowing obstacles in any way appear to have contributed to this tragedy—I would point out simply that THAT IS WHY THEY ARE THERE—because motorists are used to driving 40-50 mph down Edwards to get back to their crib. And the NHPD doing absolutely nothing about it because they are so busy tracking down the real criminals in the hood. Hey guess what, people who routinely break traffic laws are also people who break other laws. Having regular ticketing traps along these streets would give the NHPD reason to stop and search and run drivers license info—but they have been told not to , get it? DOnt want to make it look like East Rock is a police state or that they are getting unfair apportionment of police protection. I know this for a fact. The mentality of the NHPD is that i its in East Rock it is not a priority—remember the house robbery a few months back and their lack of response?? In east rock? Hello?!?!? Traffic diversion methods to keep East Rock residential and traffic-safe IS THE WHOLE POINT. Everyone who lives their knows the low-riding, hip-hop blaring cars their streak down the hill on Edwards are the problem. Deal with it. THe second issue is gun control. The third issue is drug dealing. The main issue is what did Giuliani do in New York to make things safe. Not by catering to certain voting blocks. He got the bums and the criminals off the streets by enforcing the laws.

posted by: Our Town on October 29, 2011 12:01pm Paul Bass why was my comment not posted? Because it does not agree with your agenda? Yet you constantly allow people like anon to spout unsubstantiated rhetoric about how slow traffic changes neighborhoods into glorious meccas of tranquility. Do not tell me it was not on topic…you raised the issue, and you allow anon to bring it up on every similar story.

posted by: SadFirefighter on October 29, 2011 12:02pm To Sunday and the1king: Thankyou! I feel the same way. Lets stop blaming the city, the mayor, the police, the schools, and anyone else we can make a scapegoat for our problems….And start looking within where it all starts, AT HOME. I have several young children at home and I try my best to teach them the values and morals that will serve them and their communities with love and respect. I think the ball has been dropped in so many homes nowadays for to long and now we are facing the repercussions as our children go out and kill each other off in cold blood. I respond to these calls every day and it saddens me to see life after life lost in front of my eyes for sensless acts of immaturity. Parents PLEASE STEP UP and take control of your childrens lives! Foster them, Encourage them, Educate them, Love them, Shelter them if you must, but please take the time to teach them love and integrity. Teach them the consequences of their actions. Lead them by example in the right ways of living to prevent this landslide of death and despairity in our community and the world. Lets stop pointing the finger, and look in the mirror and make a choice to stop this cycle by not being a part of it. For example I recieved a call recently for a pcp drug overdose only to find an tweaked out mom frantically upset telling me its not safe out there, my kids cant play outside due to all the shootings and blaming it on the police….you are part of the cycle! The gang violence revolves around drugs, you are enabling the violence in your neighborhood, and your kids wouldn’t be safe if they are shooting or not because they’re mom isn’t watching over them. Im not saying im not sympathetic the problems and the addictions but theres lots of help available….Take it and be accountable for yourself so you can lead a positive example and take care of your kids! Lets show these kids that gangs and violence are not the answer and that its not a family environment where they will be fulfilled. Home is where a family belongs, where our children can get everything they need. Step Up New Haven! Lets pray for one another, encourage one another and do what we need to do to make this a better place. It all starts with us!

posted by: lucy on October 29, 2011 12:36pm every vary thing only at the neighborhood, not on the real problem what happen whit the society today?with the family’s teaching to kids,this is the real problem; not valor’s, charity,compassion

posted by: New Haven Urbanism solsbury and others,

“Why is this article sprinkled with commentary about the neighborhood? Is that done in any other article?”

Yes. It was done in this article:

http://www.newhavenindependent.org/index.php/archives/entry/teen_killed1/

One section of the article is entitled “A Ruckus in a Quiet Neighborhood”, which refers to a block in the West River neighborhood. Many of the comments from neighbors in this East Rock article are very similar to comments made by neighbors of the recent West River murder, is their tone also problematic in your opinion? The Real Story,

That is the most absurd thing I’ve heard in a while. Criminals don’t pay attention to City Hall bickering matches, they live like hermits in isolated little worlds that revolve around themselves.

posted by: Oh Come On on October 29, 2011 2:00pm That’s a lot of old boring racist rhetoric, Nownow. But it’s much easier than thinking for yourself.

posted by: Kells on October 29, 2011 2:54pm @ Jonathan Hopkins The tone of that article and this one are not the same and should not be compared. The people living there did not make the same type of comments that were made in this article. Please stop.

posted by: Christine Thompson on October 29, 2011 3:11pm I live on Edwards St, on the corner of Orange St. This shooting happened just about 200ft from my home. This is supposed to be a great neighborhood, one of the best in New Haven. What a shame.

posted by: Kells on October 29, 2011 6:03pm ... Crime can happen anywhere. Your area is not exempt. Please wake up!

posted by: New Haven Urbanism Kells,

I think the tone of both articles is comparable as are the comments made by neighbors. There is certainly more emphasis on the “perception of safety” and unexpectedness of the crime in this article as compared to the other one, but I don’t think it’s because of racism - I think it’s because of the relative amount of crime in each area which influences the amount of surprise that neighbors are expressing.

I think the both this article and the one I linked to were accurate in their portrayals of the incidents and the neighbors comments. Should NHI not publish comments made by neighbors in East Rock, or should they not do that for people in West River? I don’t get what the objection is here.

Are people surprised that East Rock residents are shocked to hear about this incident? If so, why? Residents are merely responding to the fact that this type of crime is rare in this area. That’s not something that’s debatable, it’s an observation.

However, if people feel the residents are expressing the idea that crime shouldn’t happen in East Rock and should happen in other neighborhoods than I too find that objectionable and reprehensible, but I don’t get that sense from reading the article.

posted by: EastRockin on October 29, 2011 8:02pm This is not a new thing for the East Rock community. I personally have been mugged. There was a gentleman who was struck in the face with a pipe on Nicoll Street, another carjacked on Edwards and state, a young lady held up at gunpoint on Foster and Cottage. Don’t even get me started on the car break-ins. East Rock is slowly becoming more and more dangerous and something needs to be done.

posted by: comeon on October 29, 2011 8:11pm NowNow needs to stop being ignorant. I know white guilt must be pretty hard to swallow, but you have to face it sometime. There are many good reasons it exists. Stop blaming the victim ...t having white privilege means that other people are being held back. Terms like ‘the race card’ are just a way to make it seem like racism isn’t a factor. Maybe it isn’t for white people, but it is if you aren’t.

posted by: Kells on October 29, 2011 8:31pm Nice to see that my comment was edited because I responded directly to an East Rock resident that made a comment. What a mess.

posted by: Leslie Blatteau on October 30, 2011 9:51am On Friday night at midnight, I heard the sound of gunshots very close to my home. On Saturday, I read one of my students tweets that said: “Sh*ts real n the hill right now. ..... I’ve never seen. A dead body before…tonight was a first and god willingly a last” She posted that around midnight, the same time I heard the gunshots. Apparently, someone was shot and killed in the Hill on Friday night. If this is true, why is the 30th homicide going under-reported? If it’s not true, I’m sorry I’ve taken up your time. My frustration is that gunshots are normal where I live, but not in East Rock; therefore, there’s less investigation, reporting, and concern. I wish the suburban East Rockers the best and hope that the Fair Haven-Newhallville connector known as Edwards Street slows down and calms down. But I also wish that families, and church and government leaders in the neighborhoods other than East Rock call out the thugs, figure out what they need (a sense of purpose, real-life skills, and a job with a livable wage, duh), and solve this seriously serious problem.

posted by: Ken on October 30, 2011 10:31am As long as Politicians and Lawyers tie the hands of Law Enforcement Officers this will continue. Stop blaming it on everything and everyone, but the people who are responsible for these terrible crimes. Start telling the Police who’s committing these crimes and let them lock them up. If you know who is doing it and you don’t tell you are as much responsible for the crimes as the one who actually does it. Stop making excuses and complaining and take back YOUR CITY!

posted by: Bill Saunders on October 30, 2011 1:18pm Leslie, If that is true, then I have three close friends (including myself) who have had murder on their doorstep this year. Do we all get a property tax abatement, or does the ‘free market’ assessment automatically adjust?

posted by: Nick on October 30, 2011 1:35pm @ Ken: You make two points, which are in conflict with each other. (1) “Start telling the Police who’s committing these crimes and let them lock them up.” Everyone agrees that with more community cooperation, the police would be able to do a better job. (2) “As long as Politicians and Lawyers tie the hands of Law Enforcement Officers this will continue.” This sounds as if you want police to be able to do whatever they want, without being sued. But the reason the community doesn’t respect the NHPD is that its officers too often don’t obey the law—whether it’s serious violations, such as that which led to the $50,000 damages settlement a few weeks ago, or petty infractions such as running red lights. If the NHPD wants community cooperation, it needs to earn it.

posted by: HhE on October 30, 2011 8:59pm Some times the comments in The Independent do such a grand job of helping me get in touch with my Inner Rage. (I don’t even bother with the Register.) It has been several weeks since the comments section has left me with a racing heart. Now this. Nick, it ought to be irrelevant if the NHPD has earned our cooperation. If people choose—for whatever reason—not not cooperate, then the police’s hands are tied. People are dying, and our city is in crisis. Frustration with the irresponsibility of some officers ought not justify not stepping up. Which leads me to Jonathan Hopkins. Gangsters to not live in caves. They watch TV, they network, and they pay attention. One of their best sources of information is community activists who attended CMT meetings. (I know one District Manager who gets the word out by making announcements to a CMT, knowing that it will get back to its intended audience by word of mouth faster and with greater certainty than if he spoke directly with the gangsters.) This is why there are by invitation only community meetings, and why a group left a community mediation meeting when Chanel 8 showed up with their cameras. These gangsters live the life. They are in the game. Their lives literally depend on knowing how the system really works. They know the (de facto) law as well or better than the lawyers. They know when the shift change is, and the response time to an alarm. They know the strategic direction that Chief Limon set with his, “We have to earn the community’s trust.” Which meant he was going to throw as many police officers under the bus as he needed to in order to make community activists happy; which means a lot of officers since being not happy is part of the job description of a community activist. Lifer, research in CPTED (Crime Prevention Through Environmental Design) demonstrates that traffic calming measures reduce violent crime. The article relates that both parties dismounted, and fought with firsts at first. If one is involved in an altercation, do NOT dismount. Use the vehicle to escape from the danger and seek refuge at a police station. (I am a graduate of Scotti School and Griffin Group, so I know something about this.) Widespread moral fiber would negate the need for traffic calming AND would have prevented this murder. I think the reaction to this by East Rock residents is not altogether unreasonable. Yes, many people who live in East Rock have a naive view of their safety, or rather lack there of. However, there is a calmness in East Rock that is missing in Newhallville and many other areas of the city. Murders rarely happen in East Rock, especially in broad daylight. As a city, we ought to be alarmed as this puts at risk the property tax cash cow that east Rock is for the rest of the city. Solsbury, my house would be on the wrong side of that fence, but I get why people would want it. Fortunately, a number of the comments made here are very good. Forgive me if I do not name. I’m going to drink some more tea and let my heart slow down a bit, and yes I am very distressed about this murder as well as all the others.

posted by: SorrytobestuckinNH on October 31, 2011 6:53am Another violent reason to get the heck out of this insane City. I’m this close to abandoning the house I bought here and just getting out. What’s better? A good credit score or being shot to death by runaway gangs of ... males all dying (literally) to kill each other. And let’s not forget that this isn’t the first year that we’ve had a high murder rate. This happens every year. Every single year (remember the vigilante patrols in Westville not so many years ago?) Who cares if it’s in East Rock or not - the general lawlessness of this town is what is so frightening. ...

posted by: Nick on October 31, 2011 10:22am @HhE: Sorry if common sense makes your heart race. If the police misbehave, the community isn’t going to respect them and isn’t going to help them out. You can huff that it ought to be different as much as you please—but that won’t do anything.

posted by: flaxwell on October 31, 2011 10:51am Newsflash: We’re not only “connected to each others problems”, we’re also ONE FREAKING ORGANISM! Humans are just nerve impulses on one of the great Spheres of Energy. So… Please put that in your pipe… Think about where the murders are REALLY happening.

posted by: Bill Cosby on October 31, 2011 11:04am I’m calling on all young black and hispanic men who own handguns to go to police headquarters in New Haven today, and turn them in. And while you’re at it, study hard in school, throw away all your hip hop CDs, stay away from drugs, and avoid the Bloods & Crips at all costs. My good friend Joe Clark says that should solve the problem!

posted by: New Haven Urbanism Hhe,

If Chief Limon’s strategies were good for criminals then why did the violent crime rate decrease between 2009-2010 and has so far decreased this year as compared to last? The assumption you’re making is that the police are the primary preventitive agent against crime. This is not the case. They are a part of the solution, but they are a rather small and influential one as compared to economic prospects, job assessibility and availability, and the physical design of the environment.

New Haven criminals are not organized and they are not smart. If they were, they wouldn’t get arrested - they would just keep a low profile and make money. unfortunately, that isn’t enough for most criminals, they also was recognition, fame and glory, which is only possible when people know who you are, know what you’ve done and talk about you. That is not smart, that is incredibly dumb. Standing on a street corner with 10 other guys is not being an aware criminal it is being greedy, self-indulgent and stupid.

Crime has almost nothing to do with city hall politics.

posted by: HhE on October 31, 2011 2:54pm Nick, Nick, Nick, common sense is not licking outlets, not using pop to brush one’s teeth, and not provoking the police during a traffic stop. What you advocate is about the same as not studying for a class because the teacher is a jerk, and if you did well, that would make the teacher look good. Or saying, since the local volunteer fire department is more interested in beer and politics than fighting fires, I’ll not change the batteries in my smoke detector. Sure, there are officers in the NHPD whose conduct is unacceptable, but to not help the entire department because some/most/all are unprofessional is not common sense, it is pathetic. I invite anyone who knows something, but will not come forward because of their contempt for the NHPD, to tell the parents, brothers and sisters, and children of a murder victim that you not help the police with their inquires because the NHPD does not conduct itself well. People are dieing, and every murder tears at the fabric of our city. Jonathan Hopkins, you seam to be making assumptions about the assumptions I made. You also answered your own question, in a way. Chief Limon was bad for the department, and bad for the city. His policies played to politics and a very vocal group that objects to the NHPD. This stayed the hands of Officers. I live in Newhallville, and their is a quiet majority that want the NHPD to be more aggressive, not less. Yes, along with local police, there are State and Federal agencies, State and Federal courts, the economy, weather, security measures taken by potential victims, and a host of other variables. While the built environment and its condition does matter, it does not matter as much as architects would have us believe. Research in CPTED demonstrates that is has limited utility in preventing crime. Its real value is reducing the fear of crime, which in turn can reduce crime (It may be counter intuitive, until one considers that when people bunker down in their homes, they are providing the natural surveillance a vibrate community has.). The idea we could measure statistically the impact of one person on crime is nearly laughable. However, we can make a quantified assessment of a given Chief. It would seam the mayor made one to the tune of $90,000. Pray do not confuse not smart and not worldly with not switched on and not streetwise. Within the framework of their values, priorities, and world view, our gangsters do well enough. You did make your last comment a non negated universal, but while I do not blame the mayor for everything wrong in this city, city hall and crime have a lot more to do with each other than “almost nothing.”

posted by: Bottom Line on October 31, 2011 7:19pm Bottom Line, The Police, Community Activist nor Everyday Citizens can’t prevent somebody from being a perpetrator of any act of violence. Honestly, it defies logic to think that any of these factions could. What am about to say doesn’t speak to the incident above in general since we don’t know the circumstances in which why this act of violence was committed, but it does speak to the circumstances surrounding the impoverished african american communities within the entire US let alone New Haven, that seems to be the victim and culprit of the majority of these crimes. The deterrents, consequences and morality are already recognized by the individuals who commit these acts, they just fail to respect them for whatever reason. With that being said, the responsibility of showing restraint falls on the individual who commits these acts themselves. Exhibiting that restraint comes from having personal value of self which most of the individuals who perpetrate these crimes have very little or don’t have any at all. If they don’t respect themselves, how do you expect them to respect their potential victim(s)? Let alone the police, their community or even a fear of incarceration or death? As off base as this may sound, a lot of these people are just “constructed” like that! Hence why it’s so hard for people to grasp the concepts of why these individuals do what they do and barely blink an eye while doing so. The society we live in is divided in four. The Haves, The Haves Enough, The Haves a Little and of course, The Have Nots! Since the Have Nots and sometimes The Haves a Little have nothing to lose, why are we so surprised when they react as such? Are they suppose to just “behave” as normal citizens because society and the moral compass that we all “assume” we all inherently have tells them so? It’s deeper than that and always will be. Way deeper than what any Police Force can imagine. Without turning this into a book, the only real remedy to this issue is social equality, or at least some sense of direction towards it. This along with responsible parenting are the foundation towards dropping the crime rate and more importantly in eyes, giving these individuals a basis of respect of self.

posted by: Trustme on November 1, 2011 1:20am The NHPD arrest drug-dealers, gang-bangers, and gun-boys all the time, “For what?” they are temporarily off the streets for maybe a 1 day or 2, but then our lovely court systems let them back out. The NHPD is definitely not to blame they make numerous arrests on the same criminals over and over, but anon will find away to still blame the NHPD for the 29th murder. I bet my life that most of the shooters and killers in New Haven have plenty of weapon, drug, or other violent cases pending in court, but they still walk the streets of New Haven. What a joke. As I’m writing this comment another person probably got shot… New Haven as a huge gang problem, the “Crips” the “Bloods” and the “Latin Kings” are all here in New Haven.

posted by: davecoon on November 1, 2011 12:32pm @Leslie,

I’ve wondered who controls the official homicide count. I hope it isn’t the NHPD. [Editor’s Note: We followed up with the police. They say a woman was grazed in the arm with a bullet from a passing car in that incident Friday night.]

posted by: StuckinNewHaven on November 1, 2011 1:06pm So according to “Bottom Line” there isn’t any crime in a socialist society because everyone has the equality of resources. I don’t think they pay much attention to what is going on in the real world. Just because people are resource challenged doesn’t mean they should be allowed to behave in any way they deem acceptable. We live in a Society - and that means that we’re all in it together and human respect and self respect should be shared by all. Regardless of our scholarly conversation about the Why of the crime in New Haven one thing is clear - either people are going to continue to move away (or risk getting killed) or radical change has to occur. And since the same Mayor and government has been in power during this crime spree and they look to easily get elected again this coming election - don’t expect any real change. Quid pro quo in New Haven means more crime and more crime.

posted by: pat on November 1, 2011 1:17pm It just occurred to me that the shooters and the victims are part of the 99%, some of whom are peacefully assembled at Occupy New Haven on the Green.

The distribution of resources is out of whack and everyone knows it.

They system is controlled by the few to benefit that same few.

What do you do with your justified anger when you realize you’re screwed?

Some people ignore the rules that don’t work for them to begin with and choose crime. Others quietly drop out and survive however they can.

The people on the Green are our collective conscience.

Are you part of the 99% or the 1%?

An unjust society breeds the social chaos we are witnessing.

posted by: StuckinNewHaven on November 1, 2011 1:27pm you can claim that they are victims of unjust policies and certainly there is dramatic income disparity in our society - however, they are also the beneficiaries of open purse policies from the 70’s and ongoing. Food, shelter, health care, and retirement benefits are all provided for them. And they have nothing to do to receive them except qualify. There’s no requirement that they return any benefit to society as an exchange. And this open ended succor breeds dependence and we thereby become the nursemaid to these social miscreants. I’m not part of the 1%, but I pay a lot of taxes and receive few of the benefits. For all of those social misfits out there who survive on the backs of the working class - “You’re Welcome.” Try saying thank you sometime and stop shooting at us.

posted by: nhpd on November 1, 2011 5:10pm Since i have moved to this city i have only heard

countless stories of the lack of respect the police give to new haven, Know wonder the mayor does not respect them, seams the local population does not as well… for me , all i have noticed is that new haven police only respond to crime and do not prevent it. and now it seams there out late night giving parking tickets?,, who wants to come here any more?

posted by: troll-o-meter on November 2, 2011 12:48am ... “Pat” .... taking the global issue of Corporate Greed and the War Machines—and

downsizing it into this one heinous murder. Many of us would never think of blaming anyone but the

shooter in this case. We have heard what happened on that street. So, to bring in the Occupy Movement on this issue is some semi-decent web trollery. Thankfully, most NHI independent readers are smart enough to see through it, or not acknowledge it. But a book of “NHI Censored Comments” might sell quite well. Where would we direct the proceeds?

posted by: pat on November 2, 2011 8:00am Troll-o-meter:

If you think there’s no connection between poverty, hopelessness and crime, then you just haven’t kept up on the numerous studies linking the two.

The schools can’t rescue society from the huge imbalances, no matter how motivated and skilled the teachers.

And the police can only intervene after the fact.

The Occupy movement is calling out the rigged game that the US economy and political system has become. They are the optimists because they believe change is still possible.

The shooters in the street are not reading sophisticated political and economic commentaries. They’re acting out of rage, selfishness and desperation.

2 sides of the same coin as I see it.

posted by: evelyn on November 2, 2011 1:00pm It’s a really sad state when such an incident can take place in broad daylight. What is this city and the people in it coming to?