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David Pickering vows today that the WRU will fix the ailing regional game - and insists there is 100% commitment to retaining four elite teams in Wales.



In a wide-ranging interview, Pickering reflects on a decade as chairman of the governing body that has brought three Grand Slams and seen the way the game is run here transformed.



He also insists there will not be any complacency as the dust settles on the 2012 success under Warren Gatland.



Pickering also:

* Accepts there are genuine problems in the regional game and fears over financial sustainability;



* Gives the clearest indication yet that the WRU will not play hardball with the Lions over Gatland’s availability next season;



* Promises he will not “bankrupt” the Welsh game to stop players leaving for France;



* Outlines the astonishing reduction in the WRU debt from £72m in 2002 to its current level of £26m;



* Reveals how only a frantic phone call to Peter Hain, then a minister in Tony Blair’s Labour government, prevented the WRU from losing ownership of the Millennium Stadium just three years after it had been built;



* Expresses support for Gavin Henson following his sacking by the Blues, saying whether he plays for Wales again will be entirely down to Gatland.

As the most powerful man in Welsh rugby, Pickering has much to be pleased about - and a fair few things that will cause his brow to furrow.

T’was always thus in the down-one-minute-up-the-next world of professional sports administration, and in particular the roller-coaster ride that is the national sport of Wales.

Pickering presently finds himself steering the good ship WRU through calm waters, his chairmanship having entered a sunny phase thanks to buoyant business and commercial performance, and , of course, that third, thrilling Grand Slam of just three weeks ago.

The two are naturally interlinked, and provided they endure you can’t envisage a return to the darker, debt-riddled days of unwieldy committee-run administration that once made the WRU a laughing stock.

But, nevertheless, storms lurk - as they have always done. The Welsh regional game is reaching a tipping point, riven by financial belt-tightening, the departure of star players to cash-rich French clubs and an indifferent public voting with its feet.

A report by PriceWaterhouseCoopers into the game’s finances is due to be completed soon and, in its wake, a range of potential solutions will be discussed by the WRU and the regions, including the potential of dual player contracts being brought in, part-funded by both parties.

And there are other issues to be resolved that carry enormous potential consequences, such as when precisely Warren Gatland will be allowed to take over the Lions reins: as early as next September or after the autumn campaign which includes games against New Zealand and Australia?

Pickering is cheerful, engaging and amenable as he reflects on 10 years as WRU chairman as well as considering how best to tackle today’s pressing issues.

However, he is also forthright, clear in his thinking and apparently unwilling to accept fools.

Arrogance? There isn’t a hint of it. More a sense of responsibility and an utter craving for the success the national team has enjoyed of late to seep into all parts of our game.

Pickering’s tenure in the chairman’s role has seen some grim and, as he puts it, “frightening” lows that mean these better times will not be taken for granted.

Next page: Pickering on Welsh rugby's major issues

David Pickering on the answers all Welsh rugby fans are looking for

GATLAND AND THE LIONS

“Listen, it is a point that will come out in negotiations between the two bodies.

“We have agreed as a board that Warren can coach the Lions if he is selected to do so and if he wants to.

“I’m a rugby person, and I think you have to see the big picture for our sport, the big picture for Wales.

“It is a bold step where we need to say to ourselves ‘This is a sporting decision, we are part of the Lions and the Lions is special. We want them to be the very best that they can be’.

“We shouldn’t hold people back, we shouldn’t stop their sporting ambitions, we should help them grow and develop and not be frightened of this.

“Let’s be bold and give the assistant coaches a chance to step up. Let’s develop people.

“That is the correct way and that is what we have done with our youngsters coming through.”

PUTTING RIGHT THE REGIONS

“At our national level we are punching above our weight and enjoying remarkable success.

“The issue is that the regions are in a competing market where football is strong and we have two clubs doing extremely well.

“So in at least two of our regions there has been a drop off in numbers and commercial income which has caused a problem.

“I think the regional structure has underpinned the national side, so it’s worked in terms of producing players.

“It’s also worked because the WRU has funded the academies so the conveyer belt is working.

“But the issue is one of the economics of the game. That is what we will now have to look at when we see the PriceWaterhouseCoopers report, how best to tackle that.

“Up to now that side has been controlled by the regional entities themselves, but now we have to look at the evidence and come up with the best solutions.

“But the regions and ourselves have never been closer and there is a real desire to work together.

“We should be confident and not fearful as we tackle this. But we have to face this head on. We’ve got to resolve it – and we will.

“We must look at the reasons why people aren’t going to watch games, even though two of the regions are doing well with their crowds - the Scarlets, for example, who have seen an increase.

“We know that Ospreys and Blues attendances are down and that the fact 20,000 people are watching football during a recession has something to do with it.

“But before we do anything we need to see all the relevant evidence and maybe see what costs we can save and how we can be smarter.

“There is no desire on our part to reduce the number of regional teams. We believe four is the right number to support the national team and the right number for development and to sustain the national side.

“Also, commercially we have signed up for four, so if we reduce the number of teams we reduce the amount of money we have coming in through broadcasting rights etc.

“So there is no benefit to us in reducing and as far as I am concerned there is no agenda to do so.”

Next page: The player drain, central contracts and how the Millennium Stadium was nearly lost

WHY WALES IS POWERLESS TO STOP THE FRENCH PLAYER DRAIN

“As far as players leaving for France is concerned, I’m not going to bankrupt the Welsh Rugby Union to keep star players in Wales. End of.

“If a 26-year-old guy wants to leave for 800,000 Euros a year, then we can’t afford to match that. As I said, we are a sporting body but also a business and we cannot live outside our means.

“We will do our utmost to keep talent in Wales, especially the young talent, but we cannot pay stupid salaries with money we have not got. The French model is different and that is where the pressure is coming from.

“They have their municipalities, there is huge local government support, huge industrial resource support and a lot of very rich millionaires putting in huge amounts of money.

“We haven’t got that, nor has our economy.”

WHY WALES CANNOT COPY THE IRISH CENTRAL CONTRACTS MODEL

“What protects the Irish model is that they get their tax back when they finish playing, which is an Irish government policy which we can’t replicate here. There are huge tax benefits which is why no players ever leave their rugby.

“Also there is no VAT on sporting tickets, it’s a different model entirely.

“But we will look at all the different things possible and come to a solution for the good of the game. I won’t jump at a solution until everything has been evaluated.

HOW THE MILLENNIUM STADIUM WAS NEARLY LOST IN 2002

“BT owned a strip of land at the stadium, we were trying to do a deal with them but our relationship was extremely poor.

“We thought we’d done a deal to take out their debt then we got a call one Thursday from them telling us the deal was off and that they were going to sell their interest to a bank.

“That would have meant us losing control of the Millennium Stadium which left us extremely concerned.

“I phoned Peter Hain on that Thursday and he took the call at Paddington Station.

“I said ‘Peter, we are in a mess, we could lose the Stadium’.

“He asked me how he could help and I said ‘Could you please go and talk to Sir Christopher Bland – who was the chairman of BT at the time – and try to persuade him to do a deal with us?’

“He managed to do that and Sir Christopher instructed BT to do a deal with us.

“So we took BT out of the stadium, paid them off and managed also to do a deal with Barclays to take £10m off the debt.”

Next page: Debt, David Moffett and Gavin Henson

THE DRIVING DOWN OF WRU DEBT

“Our chief executive Roger Lewis has been extremely successful in putting in longer term planning. We have a five-year rolling plan now.

“We will have another hugely successful year this year and our bank debt now is down to £26.8m.

“It will come down significantly again this year. To bring it down to that from £72m in eight years is not bad by any standards.

“Last year I went to an IRB conference on the economics of the game and two unions were picked out as leading, as punching above their weight. They were New Zealand and Wales.

“That’s on and off the field. New Zealand won the World Cup and we’ve been champions of Europe three times in eight years.

“Then you look at what we have done with the business as well, it really is a testament.

“We also have a great partnership with the Welsh Government, our strategies are closely aligned.

“The 2002 reform that made us a modern corporate structure was massive, it was akin to making us like a local authority but one that is very sharp commercially.

“We are a sporting governing body but we also have to run like a business because without that the rugby cannot survive. Finances have to be right.

“That was the biggest challenge we had in 2002.”

DAVID MOFFETT AND THE REGIONAL RUGBY REVOLUTION

“Before regional rugby came about we were at a stage where we needed to appoint a lead executive and the bank were very strong observers on David’s appointment.

“At that time our borrowing was £72m and we were looking down a very long shotgun barrel.

“Moffett was a change manager and immediately set about cutting staff, trimming the business, getting rid of a lot of manpower.

“We set about restructuring the debt which presented huge problems.

“But regional rugby had to happen.

“We tried at successive AGMs to get it down to six clubs but we just couldn’t do it.

“So we changed the directors’ positions so they could pass governance laws that were sometimes unpopular but were needed for the benefit of the game.

“Regional rugby was necessary because we had to bring all our elite players together in a more professional environment.

“But I don’t think there is any doubt that it helped underpin the national team’s performance - results speak for themselves.”

WHY WALES MUST CONTINUE TO PLAY THE BEST SIDES

“I have always been of the view that if you are going to be the best, you’ve got to play the best, and do it more often than anybody else.

“So we have really pushed our fixture schedule that way which has helped the national team become better and also driven our revenue streams.

“Through that we have been able to put record sums back into the professional and grassroots game.

“Two years ago I had to convince the board that signing the participation agreement we currently have with the regions was the right thing to do, and that we could afford it.

“The only way to do it was to get an extra fixture, so I flew to South Africa, told the friends I have there that we needed a game and asked them to help us.

“That extra fixture is becoming part of our schedule and it is all about the best return for the use of the players.”

GAVIN HENSON

“I just wish Gavin the very best of luck.

“Obviously he’s had a troubled time but I’m sure he’ll reflect on what has happened.

“It’s down to him to correct it all for the benefit of him and his family.

“With the release from the Blues he’ll have to reflect on where he plays and what he does, but he has our best wishes. We hope he can restructure what he’s doing and contribute to Welsh rugby again.

“But in terms of playing for Wales the coach picks the team.”