While it’s a well-known reality of the modern music business that bands derive most of their income from touring, a topic that gets much less coverage is the yin to its yang: touring is really fucking expensive! Approach it wrong, as many bands have and do, and a seemingly “big” tour can wrap up with little to no profit.

In the latest episode of The ManageMental Podcast hosted by Mike Mowery (artist manager at Outerloop), fellow manager “Biggie” of Good Fight — who handles the careers of Between the Buried and Me, Every Time I Die, The Acacia Strain, Terror, Turnstile and more — joins for an all-encompassing discussion on the economics of touring with a particular focus on expenses. How should bands at all different levels — from those just starting out to those playing stadiums — approach their tour budgeting? What are some of the biggest mistakes bands make regarding expenses on the road? What are some tips on how to do it right?

Here’s an illuminating quote about Every Time I Die which shows that even bands we think of as very successful have to remain frugal to stay profitable:

“Every Time I Die is a tough band to live up to if you’re a 20-year-old band like they are. They take pride in being cheap, and they take pride in being able to live off the band. They have houses and families off of Every Time I Die. A lot of that is from when they’re on tour. They pride themselves in staying in shitty hotel rooms for $50 a night. They just need a place to lay down, shower and get back on the road.”

How’s that for being humble? It also speaks to the band’s longevity: we’ve seen way “bigger” bands fall by the wayside when the economic realities of being a professional musician allegedly become too much to bear.

Anyone who’s in a band at any level — whether you’re actively touring now or aspire to do so — owes it to themselves to check out the full episode of ManageMental. It’s a great listen! Stream below.