This seems to be a recurring point of contention within the MGTOW community.

Us older guys, who actually lived during a time when feminism wasn’t the driving social force, before no fault divorce came into play as the easy get rich free scheme for women will say: “It wasn’t always like this. Women were not as bad as they are today. Many men enjoyed stable homelifes and marriages with supporting wives, and women kept their hypergamy under check. Women tried to be of value to a man.. until feminism took over.”

Immediately the young guys who were not even alive during this time period will come in to tell you how stupid you are, how it has always been like this, because women have always been the way they are now.

Ummm… ok. You don’t want to believe the men who are old enough to have seen it…

So why was marriage the norm, and the societies were based around this concept, and only now are men saying en mass “f~~~ this”?

Without feminism, most women were manageable. FEMINISM is what caused this problem.

Today is a strange day. In another thread we have a kid telling us how porn is the problem. Without porn, men wouldn’t get all worked up and desire women, and we would have no simps. Completely ignoring how men are programmed to desire women and porn is only a recent development in human history that can serve as a replacement or tamper to that desire.

Sometimes it helps to test your thesis with historical facts:

How were things before feminism? Did men hate marriage and opt out? Most men stayed happily married, hmmm maybe things were different and it is feminism.

How were things before porn? Did men even desire women before porn? They did desire women and go to great lengths to obtain sex with them, hmmm maybe it isn’t porn that makes men desire women.