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LegendaryActivity: 2562Merit: 1002 Re: Terrible Experience with Bets of Bitcoin / Bitbet November 19, 2013, 10:32:34 PM

Last edit: November 19, 2013, 11:11:10 PM by Sukrim #4 What else should they do?! As long as a transaction is not in a block, it could be double spent away. I agree that it is not a nice way to deal with this issue, but you are free to use their "service". I sure didn't and I know why. https://www.coinlend.org <-- automated lending at various exchanges.

https://www.bitfinex.com <-- Trade BTC for other currencies and vice versa.

Mail me at Bitmessage: BM-BbiHiVv5qh858ULsyRDtpRrG9WjXN3xf

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Sr. MemberActivity: 342Merit: 250 Re: Terrible Experience with Bets of Bitcoin / Bitbet November 19, 2013, 10:36:14 PM #5 Sounds like bitbet is taking advantage of it's customers. I don't see how it's possibly justified to just keep all 10 bitcoins, it's still slimy and unprofessional even if it is in the FAQ. And if the service is in fact notoriously inept, then the blame for that still falls largely on the service and not the customers who get taken like suckers. The thing to do as I see it is to alert other customers to the service's shadiness and urge the service to resolve the situation and improve their policies. Chastising the customer for getting taken doesn't really help.

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MemberActivity: 98Merit: 10nearly dead Re: Terrible Experience with Bets of Bitcoin / Bitbet November 19, 2013, 11:06:48 PM #10 Quote from: MPOE-PR on November 19, 2013, 10:52:26 PM Quote from: snackman on November 19, 2013, 08:48:46 PM



I don't dispute that the rules governing the possibility are in BitBet's FAQ (and in fact linked the rules in my post, which you apparently didn't read), but I do dispute that the

My post doesn't suggest that I don't grasp the concepts of transactions and confirmations - to say so is beside the point (and insulting). What I didn't understand was Bets of Bitcoin's ineptness. I see your 'caveat emptor', 'screw you noob' mentality displayed much too often by the Bitcoin community (and technically proficient humans in general), which would be better served by welcoming and supporting those with less knowledge.I don't dispute that the rules governing the possibility are in BitBet's FAQ (and in fact linked the rules in my post, which you apparently didn't read), but I do dispute that the rule in question is a just one.

That the concepts weren't grasped was inferred from the suggestion that there is something unjust about the rule, and that a service has any obligation to remedy the fact that a user failed to include a tx fee. It's not meant as an insult, it's meant to explain to you how and why the steps you took were taken at great risk to your BTC.



That the concepts weren't grasped was inferred from the suggestion that there is something unjust about the rule, and that a service has any obligation to remedy the fact that a user failed to include a tx fee. It's not meant as an insult, it's meant to explain to you how and why the steps you took were taken at great risk to your BTC.

What's the actual reason for BitBet to steal the coins in this situation ? "You're screwed", as it is written in the FAQ, is not a proper answer. What's the actual reason for BitBet to steal the coins in this situation ? "You're screwed", as it is written in the FAQ, is not a proper answer.

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MemberActivity: 98Merit: 10nearly dead Re: Terrible Experience with Bets of Bitcoin / Bitbet November 20, 2013, 12:57:58 PM #18 Quote from: MPOE-PR on November 20, 2013, 12:50:06 PM Quote from: moderate on November 20, 2013, 01:24:22 AM I sincerely have no idea why someone puts bitcoin in that place after seeing that rule.



If a couple of pools were interested in fucking up MP's reputation, they could start taking longer to include transactions into blocks if bitbet addresses are involved. Just take care to not wait for way too many blocks, otherwise the pool's reputation get fucked.



Why do people who have no idea about anything (such as you) feel the need to prove it in writing? Go start a pool, fail, then see why the pools that succeed don't fuck with the Central Bank of Bitcoin.

Why do people who have no idea about anything (such as you) feel the need to prove it in writing? Go start a pool, fail, then see why the pools that succeed don't fuck with the Central Bank of Bitcoin.

So your reply is that stealing coins is fine ? Central Bank of Bitcoin, lol



It is cool that even trying to make this reply as stupid as I could, yours is still way ahead in the stupidness level. Calling names doesn't get issues fixed, darling. So your reply is that stealing coins is fine ? Central Bank of Bitcoin, lolIt is cool that even trying to make this reply as stupid as I could, yours is still way ahead in the stupidness level. Calling names doesn't get issues fixed, darling.

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Sr. MemberActivity: 251Merit: 250 Re: Terrible Experience with Bets of Bitcoin / Bitbet November 20, 2013, 10:27:57 PM #26 Quote

1. Deciding you're ready for BTC either without knowing or without caring about transaction fees;

2. Deciding you're ready for betting without knowing or without caring about the way betting services work;

3. Betting when the resolution criteria being met was an imminent event;

4. Using Bets of Bitcoin without having done any due diligence, which would have revealed that they're pretty much useless, for reasons including their lack of using tx fees;

5. Not reading or not caring about BitBet's FAQ and the open, fully explained, warnings about the rare potential for this very situation on this very forum;

6. Insisting that it's other people who are stupid, such that those who were attempting to help you out lost interest in your ranting.





1.- BTC is a currency that has the option to send transactions without tx fees, that does not give you the right to keep his money.



2.- Betting services work in a way that you have to provide the bet and win in order to keep the money of the person that made the bet. If for some reason that was the user fault you failed to provide such bet, that does not give you the right to keep his money.



3.- If betting on an imminent event was that important the service provider should prevent it from being possible. So again, that does not give you the right to keep his money.



4.- Using a different betting service should be no reason for discrimination or give you the right to keep his money.



5.- FAQs are not user agreements. And even if this was in the user agreement, it still makes it illegal. The user bought a bet, but no bet was provided. After the transaction was confirmed you have no reason to keep the BTC since you didn't provide the bet. If the FAQs said that if you failed to provide tx fees you would be entitled to own his properties it would be as illegal as this. User's agreements are made in order to protect the provider from certain risks, but failing to read FAQs is no excuse for keeping his money. And since the term does not condition the receiving of such money this action is a theft. Why? Imagine this:



I make a website called tvrepairs.com. I advertise that I will fix any issue for 200 usd. In the user agreement at the bottom I put that if you don't call the technician by the name charles he will be charged an extra 1000 usd.



If the terms you apply to your customers harms them economically in an event that doesn't affect you economically then you are scamming people. I hope you realize this and act accordingly, to my point of view, he was stolen 6k usd.



6.- His ability to think or the fact that he call other people names does not give you the right to keep his money.





I'm hoping I'm clear enough for you to comprehend that. Even if the address from which his BTC where sent can't be the same than his receiving address, this should be sorted out with bets of bitcoin so that this user received his BTC back.



I would suggest the op to start a post in scam accusations or move this one there. 1.- BTC is a currency that has the option to send transactions without tx fees,2.- Betting services work in a way that you have to provide the bet and win in order to keep the money of the person that made the bet. If for some reason that was the user fault you failed to provide such bet,3.- If betting on an imminent event was that important the service provider should prevent it from being possible. So again,4.- Using a different betting service should be no reason for discrimination or5.- FAQs are not user agreements. And even if this was in the user agreement, it still makes it illegal. The user bought a bet, but no bet was provided. After the transaction was confirmed you have no reason to keep thesince you didn't provide the bet. If the FAQs said that if you failed to provide tx fees you would be entitled to own his properties it would be as illegal as this. User's agreements are made in order to protect the provider from certain risks, but failing to read FAQs is no excuse for keeping his money. And since the term does not condition the receiving of such money this action is a theft. Why? Imagine this:I make a website called tvrepairs.com. I advertise that I will fix any issue for 200 usd. In the user agreement at the bottom I put that if you don't call the technician by the name charles he will be charged an extra 1000 usd.If the terms you apply to your customers harms them economically in an event that doesn't affect you economically then you are scamming people. I hope you realize this and act accordingly, to my point of view, he was stolen 6k usd.6.- His ability to think or the fact that he call other people namesI'm hoping I'm clear enough for you to comprehend that. Even if the address from which hiswhere sent can't be the same than his receiving address, this should be sorted out with bets of bitcoin so that this user received hisback.I would suggest the op to start a post in scam accusations or move this one there.

| You may run into issues some time, but support will take care of you threw qq in chinese hours

1EGoA5LMV391Psf8ZHShTkTd3tQ6URKQEp Best altcoin exchange: https://vircurex.com/welcome/index?referral_id=241-35101 https://bter.com/signup/121418 | You may run into issues some time, but support will take care of you threw qq in chinese hours1EGoA5LMV391Psf8ZHShTkTd3tQ6URKQEp

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NewbieActivity: 13Merit: 0 Re: Terrible Experience with Bets of Bitcoin / Bitbet November 20, 2013, 10:32:28 PM #27 Wow Snackman,



Thank you for raising awareness about this important issue. I'm sorry you had to pay the price of losing 10 BTC to frauds. Now the community knows. I hope this issue is resolved quickly. I would much prefer those who received your bitcoin simply return it to your address, since no services were rendered. It wouldn't seem right for a company to take 10 BTC after *no* services were rendered, and just say, "Oh well, it says in the fine print that we can steal from you. Sux! Lol!"



I just tweeted about it. Hopefully they will do what is right and return what is yours.

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LegendaryActivity: 1372Merit: 1001 Re: Terrible Experience with Bets of Bitcoin / Bitbet November 20, 2013, 10:54:32 PM #31 - MPOE-PR is the ONLY one in this thread suggesting that Bitbet is right in keeping the stolen money.

- MPOE-PR has some association with Bitbet, and this is likely the reason he is defending it.

- Bitbet has blatantly stolen $6,000 of BTC that does not belong to them.

- I would suggest finding out the details of who owns Bitbet and threatening a suit if they don't return the BTC.

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Sr. MemberActivity: 342Merit: 250 Re: Terrible Experience with Bets of Bitcoin / Bitbet November 20, 2013, 11:03:57 PM #34 Quote from: MoneyMorpheus on November 20, 2013, 10:27:57 PM Quote

1. Deciding you're ready for BTC either without knowing or without caring about transaction fees;

2. Deciding you're ready for betting without knowing or without caring about the way betting services work;

3. Betting when the resolution criteria being met was an imminent event;

4. Using Bets of Bitcoin without having done any due diligence, which would have revealed that they're pretty much useless, for reasons including their lack of using tx fees;

5. Not reading or not caring about BitBet's FAQ and the open, fully explained, warnings about the rare potential for this very situation on this very forum;

6. Insisting that it's other people who are stupid, such that those who were attempting to help you out lost interest in your ranting.





1.- BTC is a currency that has the option to send transactions without tx fees, that does not give you the right to keep his money.



2.- Betting services work in a way that you have to provide the bet and win in order to keep the money of the person that made the bet. If for some reason that was the user fault you failed to provide such bet, that does not give you the right to keep his money.



3.- If betting on an imminent event was that important the service provider should prevent it from being possible. So again, that does not give you the right to keep his money.



4.- Using a different betting service should be no reason for discrimination or give you the right to keep his money.



5.- FAQs are not user agreements. And even if this was in the user agreement, it still makes it illegal. The user bought a bet, but no bet was provided. After the transaction was confirmed you have no reason to keep the BTC since you didn't provide the bet. If the FAQs said that if you failed to provide tx fees you would be entitled to own his properties it would be as illegal as this. User's agreements are made in order to protect the provider from certain risks, but failing to read FAQs is no excuse for keeping his money. And since the term does not condition the receiving of such money this action is a theft. Why? Imagine this:



I make a website called tvrepairs.com. I advertise that I will fix any issue for 200 usd. In the user agreement at the bottom I put that if you don't call the technician by the name charles he will be charged an extra 1000 usd.



If the terms you apply to your customers harms them economically in an event that doesn't affect you economically then you are scamming people. I hope you realize this and act accordingly, to my point of view, he was stolen 6k usd.



6.- His ability to think or the fact that he call other people names does not give you the right to keep his money.





I'm hoping I'm clear enough for you to comprehend that. Even if the address from which his BTC where sent can't be the same than his receiving address, this should be sorted out with bets of bitcoin so that this user received his BTC back.



I would suggest the op to start a post in scam accusations or move this one there.

1.- BTC is a currency that has the option to send transactions without tx fees,2.- Betting services work in a way that you have to provide the bet and win in order to keep the money of the person that made the bet. If for some reason that was the user fault you failed to provide such bet,3.- If betting on an imminent event was that important the service provider should prevent it from being possible. So again,4.- Using a different betting service should be no reason for discrimination or5.- FAQs are not user agreements. And even if this was in the user agreement, it still makes it illegal. The user bought a bet, but no bet was provided. After the transaction was confirmed you have no reason to keep thesince you didn't provide the bet. If the FAQs said that if you failed to provide tx fees you would be entitled to own his properties it would be as illegal as this. User's agreements are made in order to protect the provider from certain risks, but failing to read FAQs is no excuse for keeping his money. And since the term does not condition the receiving of such money this action is a theft. Why? Imagine this:I make a website called tvrepairs.com. I advertise that I will fix any issue for 200 usd. In the user agreement at the bottom I put that if you don't call the technician by the name charles he will be charged an extra 1000 usd.If the terms you apply to your customers harms them economically in an event that doesn't affect you economically then you are scamming people. I hope you realize this and act accordingly, to my point of view, he was stolen 6k usd.6.- His ability to think or the fact that he call other people namesI'm hoping I'm clear enough for you to comprehend that. Even if the address from which hiswhere sent can't be the same than his receiving address, this should be sorted out with bets of bitcoin so that this user received hisback.I would suggest the op to start a post in scam accusations or move this one there.

+1 this sums the situation up very well.



Quote from: MPOE-PR on November 20, 2013, 10:37:49 PM Quote from: sangaman on November 20, 2013, 10:21:14 PM I probably shouldn't even ask, but what does this mean? I don't get it.



It's a jab at your virginity.

It's a jab at your virginity.

Amazing. And companies let you represent them? Make sure you pass that gem of an insult on to teenage bullies. +1 this sums the situation up very well.Amazing. And companies let you represent them? Make sure you pass that gem of an insult on to teenage bullies.

MoneyMorpheus



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Sr. MemberActivity: 251Merit: 250 Re: Terrible Experience with Bets of Bitcoin / Bitbet November 20, 2013, 11:21:58 PM #43 Quote BitBet will be here long after you're long gone. It's just the way these things work.



I wouldn't be so sure. Taking into consideration that the site is a .com it falls under US law, even though it is registered to a costa rican guy. I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be so hard to take it down legally.



Quote

Registrar URL:

Updated Date: 2013-09-21 16:51:49

Creation Date: 2012-11-21 14:24:56

Registrar Expiration Date: 2015-11-21 14:24:56

Registrar: GoDaddy.com, LLC

Registrant Name: Rafael Chaves

Registrant Organization:

Registrant Street: Plaza Itskatzu

Registrant Street: Local 210

Registrant City: Escazu

Registrant State/Province: San Jose

Registrant Postal Code: 00000

Registrant Country: Costa Rica

Admin Name: Rafael Chaves

Admin Organization:

Admin Street: Plaza Itskatzu

Admin Street: Local 210

Admin City: Escazu

Admin State/Province: San Jose

Admin Postal Code: 00000

Admin Country: Costa Rica

Admin Phone: +0.50622288967

Admin Fax:

Admin Email:

Tech Name: Rafael Chaves

Tech Organization:

Tech Street: Plaza Itskatzu

Tech Street: Local 210

Tech City: Escazu

Tech State/Province: San Jose

Tech Postal Code: 00000

Tech Country: Costa Rica

Tech Phone: +0.50622288967

Tech Fax:

Tech Email:

Name Server: PDNS1.ULTRADNS.NET

Name Server: PDNS4.ULTRADNS.ORG

Name Server: PDNS6.ULTRADNS.CO.UK

Name Server: PDNS2.ULTRADNS.NET

Name Server: PDNS5.ULTRADNS.INFO

Name Server: PDNS3.ULTRADNS.ORG

Domain Name: BITBET.COMRegistrar URL: http://www.godaddy.com Updated Date: 2013-09-21 16:51:49Creation Date: 2012-11-21 14:24:56Registrar Expiration Date: 2015-11-21 14:24:56Registrar: GoDaddy.com, LLCRegistrant Name: Rafael ChavesRegistrant Organization:Registrant Street: Plaza ItskatzuRegistrant Street: Local 210Registrant City: EscazuRegistrant State/Province: San JoseRegistrant Postal Code: 00000Registrant Country: Costa RicaAdmin Name: Rafael ChavesAdmin Organization:Admin Street: Plaza ItskatzuAdmin Street: Local 210Admin City: EscazuAdmin State/Province: San JoseAdmin Postal Code: 00000Admin Country: Costa RicaAdmin Phone: +0.50622288967Admin Fax:Admin Email: eldorado007@gmail.com Tech Name: Rafael ChavesTech Organization:Tech Street: Plaza ItskatzuTech Street: Local 210Tech City: EscazuTech State/Province: San JoseTech Postal Code: 00000Tech Country: Costa RicaTech Phone: +0.50622288967Tech Fax:Tech Email: eldorado007@gmail.com Name Server: PDNS1.ULTRADNS.NETName Server: PDNS4.ULTRADNS.ORGName Server: PDNS6.ULTRADNS.CO.UKName Server: PDNS2.ULTRADNS.NETName Server: PDNS5.ULTRADNS.INFOName Server: PDNS3.ULTRADNS.ORG I wouldn't be so sure. Taking into consideration that the site is a .com it falls under US law, even though it is registered to a costa rican guy. I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be so hard to take it down legally.

| You may run into issues some time, but support will take care of you threw qq in chinese hours

1EGoA5LMV391Psf8ZHShTkTd3tQ6URKQEp Best altcoin exchange: https://vircurex.com/welcome/index?referral_id=241-35101 https://bter.com/signup/121418 | You may run into issues some time, but support will take care of you threw qq in chinese hours1EGoA5LMV391Psf8ZHShTkTd3tQ6URKQEp

MoneyMorpheus



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Sr. MemberActivity: 251Merit: 250 Re: Terrible Experience with Bets of Bitcoin / Bitbet November 20, 2013, 11:35:57 PM #48 Quote from: MPOE-PR on November 20, 2013, 11:25:50 PM Quote from: MoneyMorpheus on November 20, 2013, 11:21:58 PM I wouldn't be so sure. Taking into consideration that the site is a .com it falls under US law, even though it is registered to a costa rican guy. I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be so hard to take it down legally.



O Mighty Money Morpheus, please have mercy with your takings down legally.



Are you as cool as the guy in the Matrix? Very original, seriously. Your mommy must be so proud....

O Mighty Money Morpheus, please have mercy with your takings down legally.Are you as cool as the guy in the Matrix? Very original, seriously. Your mommy must be so proud....

I'm just refuting some of your statements with logic, no need to put yourself so defensive. I don't even live in the US. I'm just doing this because I feel bad for the OP, but other than talking here I won't do more.



The OP could also check Chaves background and see if he is paying his taxes on his earnings in his country and file a money laundering complain with the authorities in costa rica. And I can keep on thinking in ways that could end a betting site, since by the looks of it I'm pretty sure the owners haven't made all of their legal homework, specially if you are submitting users to illegal terms.



PD: Still if you are not representative of them you shouldn't be defending them so badly; and if you are you should contact them and make them think this threw to see what they feel is right I'm just refuting some of your statements with logic, no need to put yourself so defensive. I don't even live in the US. I'm just doing this because I feel bad for the OP, but other than talking here I won't do more.The OP could also check Chaves background and see if he is paying his taxes on his earnings in his country and file a money laundering complain with the authorities in costa rica. And I can keep on thinking in ways that could end a betting site, since by the looks of it I'm pretty sure the owners haven't made all of their legal homework, specially if you are submitting users to illegal terms.PD: Still if you are not representative of them you shouldn't be defending them so badly; and if you are you should contact them and make them think this threw to see what they feel is right

| You may run into issues some time, but support will take care of you threw qq in chinese hours

1EGoA5LMV391Psf8ZHShTkTd3tQ6URKQEp Best altcoin exchange: https://vircurex.com/welcome/index?referral_id=241-35101 https://bter.com/signup/121418 | You may run into issues some time, but support will take care of you threw qq in chinese hours1EGoA5LMV391Psf8ZHShTkTd3tQ6URKQEp

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Full MemberActivity: 224Merit: 100 Re: Terrible Experience with Bets of Bitcoin / Bitbet November 20, 2013, 11:43:27 PM #50 Quote from: MPOE-PR on November 20, 2013, 11:33:16 PM Quote from: freethink2013 on November 20, 2013, 11:24:52 PM Thieves seldom prosper. You had to buy your trust. You have to rip people off at your betting site (don't say you're not connected) and your exchance is a ponzi, money laundering scheme. You literally can't do anything honestly.



Sue me. I could do with the discovery documents. A new age of bitcoin has come. People like you need to get out. But you will be held accountable in the end. Scum



MP sez quote that shit so I do. Apparently he thinks you're very funny or something, I dunno.

MP sez quote that shit so I do. Apparently he thinks you're very funny or something, I dunno.

1. Stop pretending you are a woman

2. Stop pretending you are MPOE's PR executive

3. Stop eating so much you fat bastard



-----------------------



I looked at bitbet and liked the idea but a site that would rather rip someone off for 6k rather than build a customer base is no site at all. 1. Stop pretending you are a woman2. Stop pretending you are MPOE's PR executive3. Stop eating so much you fat bastard-----------------------I looked at bitbet and liked the idea but a site that would rather rip someone off for 6k rather than build a customer base is no site at all.

Beans



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Hero MemberActivity: 518Merit: 500 Re: Terrible Experience with Bets of Bitcoin / Bitbet November 21, 2013, 07:37:53 AM #64 If they didn't receive your money until after betting was closed, then you didn't purchase anything. Whatever is written in the rules can't take away your consumer rights. If they don't provide the service paid for or send a refund it's just theft. There not protecting anyone by keeping the money, just lining there pockets.

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Hero MemberActivity: 896Merit: 528Former curator of The Bitcoin Museum Re: Terrible Experience with Bets of Bitcoin / Bitbet November 21, 2013, 02:20:04 PM #75 So this dude's bitcoin arrived too late to be included in the bet, but is being kept as if it had made it in the bet and lost?



For shame. Shame shame shame. Tip Me if believe BTC 1 will hit $1 Million by 2030

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Sr. MemberActivity: 364Merit: 250 Re: Terrible Experience with Bets of Bitcoin / Bitbet November 21, 2013, 02:20:22 PM #76 Quote from: Beans on November 21, 2013, 07:37:53 AM If they didn't receive your money until after betting was closed, then you didn't purchase anything. Whatever is written in the rules can't take away your consumer rights. If they don't provide the service paid for or send a refund it's just theft. There not protecting anyone by keeping the money, just lining there pockets.



The service is GAMBLING. GAMBLING is risky. When bets are time average weighted you must discourage late bets. Why?



Masses of idiots like you would spam the blockchain at the last possible second when the bet outcome is known, for even a 1% winnings. This screws early bettors and creates 95% of the work for bitbet admins for 5% of the customers. The same 5% of childish people that bitbet is discouraging, because they are the worst kind of customers.



This OPEN discouragement of late betting is clearly explained as such, in the faq.



You're telling me you went and sent 10btc, at the time, ~$8,000, without even reading the faq? And you're blaming others for this oversight? The service is GAMBLING. GAMBLING is risky. When bets are time average weighted you. Why?Masses of idiots like you would spam the blockchain at the last possible second when the bet outcome is known, for even a 1% winnings. This screws early bettors and creates 95% of the work for bitbet admins for 5% of the customers. The same 5% of childish people that bitbet is discouraging, because they are the worst kind of customers.This OPEN discouragement of late betting is clearly explained as such, in the faq.You're telling me you went and sent 10btc, at the time, ~$8,000, without even reading the faq? And you're blaming others for this oversight? Soaring Dragon Self-Cultivation

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NewbieActivity: 20Merit: 0 Re: Terrible Experience with Bets of Bitcoin / Bitbet November 21, 2013, 02:33:25 PM #80 Quote from: deadweasel on November 21, 2013, 02:20:22 PM Quote from: Beans on November 21, 2013, 07:37:53 AM If they didn't receive your money until after betting was closed, then you didn't purchase anything. Whatever is written in the rules can't take away your consumer rights. If they don't provide the service paid for or send a refund it's just theft. There not protecting anyone by keeping the money, just lining there pockets.



The service is GAMBLING. GAMBLING is risky. When bets are time average weighted you must discourage late bets. Why?



Masses of idiots like you would spam the blockchain at the last possible second when the bet outcome is known, for even a 1% winnings. This screws early bettors and creates 95% of the work for bitbet admins for 5% of the customers. The same 5% of childish people that bitbet is discouraging, because they are the worst kind of customers.



This OPEN discouragement of late betting is clearly explained as such, in the faq.



You're telling me you went and sent 10btc, at the time, ~$8,000, without even reading the faq? And you're blaming others for this oversight?

The service is GAMBLING. GAMBLING is risky. When bets are time average weighted you. Why?Masses of idiots like you would spam the blockchain at the last possible second when the bet outcome is known, for even a 1% winnings. This screws early bettors and creates 95% of the work for bitbet admins for 5% of the customers. The same 5% of childish people that bitbet is discouraging, because they are the worst kind of customers.This OPEN discouragement of late betting is clearly explained as such, in the faq.You're telling me you went and sent 10btc, at the time, ~$8,000, without even reading the faq? And you're blaming others for this oversight?

This could be solved easily I think . Their rules could include this for ex: all bets entered 30 minutes before bet outcome is known will be cancelled and refunded with a 1%.

Is it? I'm not an expert on betting, correct me if I'm wrong.

But seems like they prefer to steal the money.



and FAQ says:



http://bitbet.us/faq/#152

What if I bet after the bet has been satisfied, but before it is actually closed?

Your bet will be refunded, minus BitBet's 1% fee.



Our bets were done BEFORE the bet was closed. This could be solved easily I think . Their rules could include this for ex: all bets entered 30 minutes before bet outcome is known will be cancelled and refunded with a 1%.Is it? I'm not an expert on betting, correct me if I'm wrong.But seems like they prefer to steal the money.and FAQ says:What if I bet after the bet has been satisfied, but before it is actually closed?Your bet will be refunded, minus BitBet's 1% fee.Our bets were done BEFORE the bet was closed.

Beans



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Hero MemberActivity: 518Merit: 500 Re: Terrible Experience with Bets of Bitcoin / Bitbet November 21, 2013, 02:43:59 PM #81 Quote from: deadweasel on November 21, 2013, 02:29:05 PM Quote from: snackman on November 21, 2013, 02:22:27 PM Quote from: deadweasel on November 21, 2013, 02:20:22 PM The service is GAMBLING. GAMBLING is risky.



Keeping my 10 BTC is STEALING. STEALING is wrong.

Keeping my 10 BTC is STEALING. STEALING is wrong.

Sending $9,000 to a random gambling site without reading the rules is stupid. Blaming others is childish.



Stealing is going in the night while you sleep and breaking into a safe.



This is you gouging out your eyes and running into a casino and slapping down $9,000 on a roullete machine and then demanding your money back because you didn't know how it worked.





Sending $9,000 to a random gambling site without reading the rules is stupid. Blaming others is childish.Stealing is going in the night while you sleep and breaking into a safe.This is you gouging out your eyes and running into a casino and slapping down $9,000 on a roullete machine and then demanding your money back because you didn't know how it worked.

In your roullete comparison, he would be the guy who walked into the casino and handed the dealer $9000 dollars without reading the fine print. Then the dealer turns around and says. "Sorry, you don't get a turn the last spin was 5 mins ago. Tuff luck." If you think that's how normal business works. Your either a crook or delusional.



There are laws to protect customers from these types of scams. Businesses are not allowed to just take your money and not provide the item or service. They can write whatever they like in the rules, it doesn't change that.



There are way to many companies like this in Bitcoin. We need to stop supporting these crooked business practices if we want bitcoin to succeed. In your roullete comparison, he would be the guy who walked into the casino and handed the dealer $9000 dollars without reading the fine print. Then the dealer turns around and says. "Sorry, you don't get a turn the last spin was 5 mins ago. Tuff luck." If you think that's how normal business works. Your either a crook or delusional.There are laws to protect customers from these types of scams. Businesses are not allowed to just take your money and not provide the item or service. They can write whatever they like in the rules, it doesn't change that.There are way to many companies like this in Bitcoin. We need to stop supporting these crooked business practices if we want bitcoin to succeed.

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Sr. MemberActivity: 251Merit: 250 Re: Terrible Experience with Bets of Bitcoin / Bitbet November 21, 2013, 03:33:20 PM #86 Quote from: MPOE-PR on November 21, 2013, 03:02:26 PM Quote from: deivid on November 21, 2013, 02:33:25 PM This could be solved easily I think . Their rules could include this for ex: all bets entered 30 minutes before bet outcome is known will be cancelled and refunded with a 1%.



Timing does not work in Bitcoin the way you intuitively imagine it would.



In fact the reason the blockchain even exists in the first place is that timing and synchronicity issues have no easy solution.

Timing does not work in Bitcoin the way you intuitively imagine it would.In fact the reason the blockchain even exists in the first place is that timing and synchronicity issues have no easy solution.

You are saying that if the user sent the money without fees there is no way to verify that he sent it at a particular time? If that is so you should have started with that.



I understand your theory in double spending, but if the user sent his BTC from another betting service which he doesn't own, he doesn't control the private keys of that wallet and there is no way he can double spend those coins, or am I missing something here?



Your arguments in this post are usually so emotional that is hard to figure out what you are trying to say. I would suggest you keep your answers in a polite and logical manner. If you actually have a point it will be heard this way. But so far I'm still thinking that the user has a stronger point and its going to take some good reasons for changing my mind.



Would it make it more risky to return all the transactions that had no fee instead of keeping them?



If the user actually double spend his bet after the resolution of the bet is known, wouldn't that bet be qualified as late?



Given your attitude I feel like I'm missing something and it would be much easier if you enlighten us with that. You are saying that if the user sent the money without fees there is no way to verify that he sent it at a particular time? If that is so you should have started with that.I understand your theory in double spending, but if the user sent hisfrom another betting service which he doesn't own, he doesn't control the private keys of that wallet and there is no way he can double spend those coins, or am I missing something here?Your arguments in this post are usually so emotional that is hard to figure out what you are trying to say. I would suggest you keep your answers in a polite and logical manner. If you actually have a point it will be heard this way. But so far I'm still thinking that the user has a stronger point and its going to take some good reasons for changing my mind.Would it make it more risky to return all the transactions that had no fee instead of keeping them?If the user actually double spend his bet after the resolution of the bet is known, wouldn't that bet be qualified as late?Given your attitude I feel like I'm missing something and it would be much easier if you enlighten us with that.

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Sr. MemberActivity: 342Merit: 250 Re: Terrible Experience with Bets of Bitcoin / Bitbet November 21, 2013, 03:39:58 PM #87 Quote from: deadweasel on November 21, 2013, 02:20:22 PM Quote from: Beans on November 21, 2013, 07:37:53 AM If they didn't receive your money until after betting was closed, then you didn't purchase anything. Whatever is written in the rules can't take away your consumer rights. If they don't provide the service paid for or send a refund it's just theft. There not protecting anyone by keeping the money, just lining there pockets.



The service is GAMBLING. GAMBLING is risky. When bets are time average weighted you must discourage late bets. Why?



Masses of idiots like you would spam the blockchain at the last possible second when the bet outcome is known, for even a 1% winnings. This screws early bettors and creates 95% of the work for bitbet admins for 5% of the customers. The same 5% of childish people that bitbet is discouraging, because they are the worst kind of customers.



This OPEN discouragement of late betting is clearly explained as such, in the faq.



You're telling me you went and sent 10btc, at the time, ~$8,000, without even reading the faq? And you're blaming others for this oversight?

The service is GAMBLING. GAMBLING is risky. When bets are time average weighted you. Why?Masses of idiots like you would spam the blockchain at the last possible second when the bet outcome is known, for even a 1% winnings. This screws early bettors and creates 95% of the work for bitbet admins for 5% of the customers. The same 5% of childish people that bitbet is discouraging, because they are the worst kind of customers.This OPEN discouragement of late betting is clearly explained as such, in the faq.You're telling me you went and sent 10btc, at the time, ~$8,000, without even reading the faq? And you're blaming others for this oversight?

Gambling is risky but the risk is supposed to be in losing the bets and not getting screwed by the site operator. Having a rule that payments must be confirmed before a bet is resolved to count is perfectly reasonable. Having a rule that refunds of such payments are subject to a small convenience fee (since it may require manual intervention to refund) is also perfectly reasonable. Having a rule that says bets don't count up to X minutes before a bet is resolved is also reasonable.



A price of almost $750 is not $750 though, so unless the bet was placed after the price actually crossed $750 then I don't think it's an exploit - the outcome was still in doubt even if the doubt was very small. Regardless, keeping 100% of the money is stealing, and a wave of people from BitBet IRC chat saying otherwise doesn't change that.



A FAQ is for when people have questions, it's not a must-read for casual users who want to make sure they don't get screwed by awful policies. Even actual must-reads like terms and conditions you must agree to before using a service do not give you the right to steal.



OP, I hope you contact a lawyer if the site continues to refuse to refund you. I bet a judge would see this as stealing, but running this by a lawyer would be the best way to be sure. You're out a significant chunk of change so I believe it could easily be worth it, and you'd be doing the bitcoin community a service. Gambling is risky but the risk is supposed to be in losing the bets and not getting screwed by the site operator. Having a rule that payments must be confirmed before a bet is resolved to count is perfectly reasonable. Having a rule that refunds of such payments are subject to a small convenience fee (since it may require manual intervention to refund) is also perfectly reasonable. Having a rule that says bets don't count up to X minutes before a bet is resolved is also reasonable.A price of almost $750 is not $750 though, so unless the bet was placed after the price actually crossed $750 then I don't think it's an exploit - the outcome was still in doubt even if the doubt was very small. Regardless, keeping 100% of the money is stealing, and a wave of people from BitBet IRC chat saying otherwise doesn't change that.A FAQ is for when people have questions, it's not a must-read for casual users who want to make sure they don't get screwed by awful policies. Even actual must-reads like terms and conditions you must agree to before using a service do not give you the right to steal.OP, I hope you contact a lawyer if the site continues to refuse to refund you. I bet a judge would see this as stealing, but running this by a lawyer would be the best way to be sure. You're out a significant chunk of change so I believe it could easily be worth it, and you'd be doing the bitcoin community a service.

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NewbieActivity: 20Merit: 0 Re: Terrible Experience with Bets of Bitcoin / Bitbet November 21, 2013, 03:50:00 PM #89 Quote from: sangaman on November 21, 2013, 03:39:58 PM Quote from: deadweasel on November 21, 2013, 02:20:22 PM Quote from: Beans on November 21, 2013, 07:37:53 AM If they didn't receive your money until after betting was closed, then you didn't purchase anything. Whatever is written in the rules can't take away your consumer rights. If they don't provide the service paid for or send a refund it's just theft. There not protecting anyone by keeping the money, just lining there pockets.



The service is GAMBLING. GAMBLING is risky. When bets are time average weighted you must discourage late bets. Why?



Masses of idiots like you would spam the blockchain at the last possible second when the bet outcome is known, for even a 1% winnings. This screws early bettors and creates 95% of the work for bitbet admins for 5% of the customers. The same 5% of childish people that bitbet is discouraging, because they are the worst kind of customers.



This OPEN discouragement of late betting is clearly explained as such, in the faq.



You're telling me you went and sent 10btc, at the time, ~$8,000, without even reading the faq? And you're blaming others for this oversight?

The service is GAMBLING. GAMBLING is risky. When bets are time average weighted you. Why?Masses of idiots like you would spam the blockchain at the last possible second when the bet outcome is known, for even a 1% winnings. This screws early bettors and creates 95% of the work for bitbet admins for 5% of the customers. The same 5% of childish people that bitbet is discouraging, because they are the worst kind of customers.This OPEN discouragement of late betting is clearly explained as such, in the faq.You're telling me you went and sent 10btc, at the time, ~$8,000, without even reading the faq? And you're blaming others for this oversight?

Gambling is risky but the risk is supposed to be in losing the bets and not getting screwed by the site operator. Having a rule that payments must be confirmed before a bet is resolved to count is perfectly reasonable. Having a rule that refunds of such payments are subject to a small convenience fee (since it may require manual intervention to refund) is also perfectly reasonable. Having a rule that says bets don't count up to X minutes before a bet is resolved is also reasonable.



A price of almost $750 is not $750 though, so unless the bet was placed after the price actually crossed $750 then I don't think it's an exploit - the outcome was still in doubt even if the doubt was very small. Regardless, keeping 100% of the money is stealing, and a wave of people from BitBet IRC chat saying otherwise doesn't change that.



A FAQ is for when people have questions, it's not a must-read for casual users who want to make sure they don't get screwed by awful policies. Even actual must-reads like terms and conditions you must agree to before using a service do not give you the right to steal.



OP, I hope you contact a lawyer if the site continues to refuse to refund you. I bet a judge would see this as stealing, but running this by a lawyer would be the best way to be sure. You're out a significant chunk of change so I believe it could easily be worth it, and you'd be doing the bitcoin community a service.

Gambling is risky but the risk is supposed to be in losing the bets and not getting screwed by the site operator. Having a rule that payments must be confirmed before a bet is resolved to count is perfectly reasonable. Having a rule that refunds of such payments are subject to a small convenience fee (since it may require manual intervention to refund) is also perfectly reasonable. Having a rule that says bets don't count up to X minutes before a bet is resolved is also reasonable.A price of almost $750 is not $750 though, so unless the bet was placed after the price actually crossed $750 then I don't think it's an exploit - the outcome was still in doubt even if the doubt was very small. Regardless, keeping 100% of the money is stealing, and a wave of people from BitBet IRC chat saying otherwise doesn't change that.A FAQ is for when people have questions, it's not a must-read for casual users who want to make sure they don't get screwed by awful policies. Even actual must-reads like terms and conditions you must agree to before using a service do not give you the right to steal.OP, I hope you contact a lawyer if the site continues to refuse to refund you. I bet a judge would see this as stealing, but running this by a lawyer would be the best way to be sure. You're out a significant chunk of change so I believe it could easily be worth it, and you'd be doing the bitcoin community a service.



+1.



I encourage bitbet to resolve this issue. If not, maybe they will end paying x10 times what they have took.

+1.I encourage bitbet to resolve this issue. If not, maybe they will end paying x10 times what they have took.

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Sr. MemberActivity: 364Merit: 250 Re: Terrible Experience with Bets of Bitcoin / Bitbet November 21, 2013, 05:32:31 PM #99 Quote from: SgtSpike on November 21, 2013, 05:23:18 PM Quote from: pankkake on November 21, 2013, 05:13:18 PM You do realize that not agreeing with someone's policy is not enough to build a court case?

The policy is there, if you don't agree don't use the site. But if you call it "theft", you're a scammer.

I don't think you understand how policies work in court. A court would never uphold a policy that states "I have the right to steal your money," which is effectivly what bitbet's policy says.



Quote from: davout on November 21, 2013, 07:49:54 AM So the correct course of action for you is :

- Think,

- Understand the why of the policy,

- Get over it,

- Pay more attention next time



Well, I USED to have respect for you, davout. Are you involved in this site in any way?

I don't think you understand how policies work in court. A court would never uphold a policy that states "I have the right to steal your money," which is effectivly what bitbet's policy says.Well, I USED to have respect for you, davout. Are you involved in this site in any way?

Look, it's a hardline stance, but they can discourage late betting this way because it's clearly stated on the website and it's a private business that's not forcing you to use it. You have the options to use it or not. If you use it poorly, fuck you.



Snackman got his service provided, because he got the thrill of sending BTC in late, and lost. Now he has the thrill of putting responsibility elsewhere. Service fucking rendered.



Had he read the FAQ, which anyone with a brain in their head would do before sending $9.000, he would know that sending bets in late is still GAMBLING with your money. So, the service was in fact rendered.



Late betting scammers think you can scrape off the winnings of legit users? Nope. Look, it's a hardline stance, but they can discourage late betting this way because it's clearly stated on the website and it's a private business that's not forcing you to use it. You have the options to use it or not. If you use it poorly, fuck you.Snackman got his service provided, because he got the thrill of sending BTC in late, and lost. Now he has the thrill of putting responsibility elsewhere. Service fucking rendered.Had he read the FAQ, which anyone with a brain in their head would do before sending $9.000, he would know that sending bets in late is still GAMBLING with your money. So, the service was in fact rendered.Late betting scammers think you can scrape off the winnings of legit users? Nope. Soaring Dragon Self-Cultivation

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Hero MemberActivity: 518Merit: 500 Re: Terrible Experience with Bets of Bitcoin / Bitbet November 21, 2013, 05:39:45 PM #101 Quote from: MPOE-PR on November 21, 2013, 03:00:12 PM Quote from: Beans on November 21, 2013, 02:43:59 PM There are way to many companies like this in Bitcoin. We need to stop supporting these crooked business practices if we want bitcoin to succeed.



You are roughly in the position of a Colorado bug on a potato plant discussing what "we" should be doing if "we" wish agriculture to succeed.



Shut the fuck up and get lost. You're not even part of Bitcoin in the first place. And the reason Bitcoin doth succeed has a way lot more to do with MP than you can begin to comprehend.

You are roughly in the position of a Colorado bug on a potato plant discussing what "we" should be doing if "we" wish agriculture to succeed.Shut the fuck up and get lost. You're not evenof Bitcoin in the first place. And the reason Bitcoin doth succeed has a way lot more to do with MP than you can begin to comprehend.

So basically, you don't even have a point to your argument. Another comparison that makes zero sense. According to you comparison, customer support is irreverent to business success.



You don't even have a clue who I am. You just presume as usual that you know everything. There's always a few people like you on the forum, self entitled know it all but lacking common sense. You may think your something special but your not. Why don't you stick to posting when you have something that makes sense. Every time I've seen you post anything, it's always swearing and spreading your crack pot ideas. Grow up, get out of your parents house and get a life. So basically, you don't even have a point to your argument. Another comparison that makes zero sense. According to you comparison, customer support is irreverent to business success.You don't even have a clue who I am. You just presume as usual that you know everything. There's always a few people like you on the forum, self entitled know it all but lacking common sense. You may think your something special but your not. Why don't you stick to posting when you have something that makes sense. Every time I've seen you post anything, it's always swearing and spreading your crack pot ideas. Grow up, get out of your parents house and get a life.

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Sr. MemberActivity: 364Merit: 250 Re: Terrible Experience with Bets of Bitcoin / Bitbet November 21, 2013, 06:19:45 PM #102 Quote from: MoneyMorpheus on November 21, 2013, 05:39:18 PM

A bet can either be accepted or rejected, how is it a legit action to accept and reject it at the same time?



Because betting late is scamming legit users. When a user DECIDE to bet late they RISK their BTC by betting late and essentially scamming the system when a bet resolution is clear. (screwing those who bet early with no knowledge of the bet outcome).



This policy was instituted because legit users were getting squeezed out of their winnings because of people like snackman. Bitbet.us took a hardline stance and publicly stated so. Should they spam each bettor with the FAQ before placing a bet? I dunno, I am not involved in any way (besides a user).



You can bet all day on bitbet.us safely. If you bet close to the closing date then you are taking EXTRA risk which is an EXTRA service rendered in terms of gambling.



Snackman's inability to:





1. Use bitcoin-qt or legit web-wallet to even receive a refund, IF BITBET wanted to. There is no way to refund as he did not do this. FAIL 1.



2. Read the FAQ FAIL 2.



3. Send a small amount first FAIL 3.



4. Admit his mistake of not reading the FAQ, accept his part in it, and request a refund based on his newbie dumb-ass status. Would this have worked to get a refund? We will never know now, will we? FAIL 4.



Running around fucking up based on assumptions of how a gambling site should behave is no way to keep your BTC.



It is, indeed, time to grow up. Is it time for Bitbet.us to change that policy? I don't know, but none of you have any fucking say in it. Lots of big players use BitBet correctly and safely, and the loss of users like snackman is actually a boon to the business. So, keep it up!



Because betting late is scamming legit users. When a user DECIDE to bet late they RISK their BTC by betting late and essentially scamming the system when a bet resolution is clear. (screwing those who bet early with no knowledge of the bet outcome).This policy was instituted because legit users were getting squeezed out of their winnings because of people like snackman. Bitbet.us took a hardline stance and publicly stated so. Should they spam each bettor with the FAQ before placing a bet? I dunno, I am not involved in any way (besides a user).You can bet all day on bitbet.us safely. If you bet close to the closing date then you are taking EXTRA risk which is an EXTRA service rendered in terms of gambling.Snackman's inability to:1. Use bitcoin-qt or legit web-wallet to even receive a refund, IF BITBET wanted to. There is no way to refund as he did not do this. FAIL 1.2. Read the FAQ FAIL 2.3. Send a small amount first FAIL 3.4. Admit his mistake of not reading the FAQ, accept his part in it, and request a refund based on his newbie dumb-ass status. Would this have worked to get a refund? We will never know now, will we? FAIL 4.Running around fucking up based on assumptions of how a gambling site should behave is no way to keep your BTC.It is, indeed, time to grow up. Is it time for Bitbet.us to change that policy? I don't know, but none of you have any fucking say in it. Lots of big players use BitBet correctly and safely, and the loss of users like snackman is actually a boon to the business. So, keep it up! Soaring Dragon Self-Cultivation

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Sr. MemberActivity: 342Merit: 250 Re: Terrible Experience with Bets of Bitcoin / Bitbet November 21, 2013, 06:34:50 PM #103 Quote from: snackman on November 21, 2013, 05:03:25 PM . I'll keep you updated.

I contacted a lawyer that accepts bitcoin. I'll keep you updated.

Best of luck to you, getting a lawyer familiar with bitcoin is huge. Let me know if I can help. I don't know if this possibly violates any fraud/theft criminal statutes or if it would be at all practical to pursue them but I wouldn't mind seeing these thieves punished. Most important is that you (and others affected by the same policy) get their money back and that nobody uses this site anymore. Best of luck to you, getting a lawyer familiar with bitcoin is huge. Let me know if I can help. I don't know if this possibly violates any fraud/theft criminal statutes or if it would be at all practical to pursue them but I wouldn't mind seeing these thieves punished. Most important is that you (and others affected by the same policy) get their money back and that nobody uses this site anymore.

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Sr. MemberActivity: 251Merit: 250 Re: Terrible Experience with Bets of Bitcoin / Bitbet November 21, 2013, 06:38:36 PM #104 Quote from: deadweasel on November 21, 2013, 06:19:45 PM Quote from: MoneyMorpheus on November 21, 2013, 05:39:18 PM

A bet can either be accepted or rejected, how is it a legit action to accept and reject it at the same time?



Because betting late is scamming legit users. When a user DECIDE to bet late they RISK their BTC by betting late and essentially scamming the system when a bet resolution is clear. (screwing those who bet early with no knowledge of the bet outcome).



This policy was instituted because legit users were getting squeezed out of their winnings because of people like snackman. Bitbet.us took a hardline stance and publicly stated so. Should they spam each bettor with the FAQ before placing a bet? I dunno, I am not involved in any way (besides a user).



You can bet all day on bitbet.us safely. If you bet close to the closing date then you are taking EXTRA risk which is an EXTRA service rendered in terms of gambling.



Snackman's inability to:





1. Use bitcoin-qt or legit web-wallet to even receive a refund, IF BITBET wanted to. There is no way to refund as he did not do this. FAIL 1.



2. Read the FAQ FAIL 2.



3. Send a small amount first FAIL 3.



4. Admit his mistake of not reading the FAQ, accept his part in it, and request a refund based on his newbie dumb-ass status. Would this have worked to get a refund? We will never know now, will we? FAIL 4.



Running around fucking up based on assumptions of how a gambling site should behave is no way to keep your BTC.



It is, indeed, time to grow up. Is it time for Bitbet.us to change that policy? I don't know, but none of you have any fucking say in it. Lots of big players use BitBet correctly and safely, and the loss of users like snackman is actually a boon to the business. So, keep it up!





Because betting late is scamming legit users. When a user DECIDE to bet late they RISK their BTC by betting late and essentially scamming the system when a bet resolution is clear. (screwing those who bet early with no knowledge of the bet outcome).This policy was instituted because legit users were getting squeezed out of their winnings because of people like snackman. Bitbet.us took a hardline stance and publicly stated so. Should they spam each bettor with the FAQ before placing a bet? I dunno, I am not involved in any way (besides a user).You can bet all day on bitbet.us safely. If you bet close to the closing date then you are taking EXTRA risk which is an EXTRA service rendered in terms of gambling.Snackman's inability to:1. Use bitcoin-qt or legit web-wallet to even receive a refund, IF BITBET wanted to. There is no way to refund as he did not do this. FAIL 1.2. Read the FAQ FAIL 2.3. Send a small amount first FAIL 3.4. Admit his mistake of not reading the FAQ, accept his part in it, and request a refund based on his newbie dumb-ass status. Would this have worked to get a refund? We will never know now, will we? FAIL 4.Running around fucking up based on assumptions of how a gambling site should behave is no way to keep your BTC.It is, indeed, time to grow up. Is it time for Bitbet.us to change that policy? I don't know, but none of you have any fucking say in it. Lots of big players use BitBet correctly and safely, and the loss of users like snackman is actually a boon to the business. So, keep it up!



I understand your point, but rejecting the bet because of being late protects the user in the same way than this policy, doesn't it?



Also, if you find a bet you find interesting, but you have your btc on a site, is it such a crime to try to get in if you think the bet is still valid? Wouldn't you assume if you are too late that it will be refunded to you if the place is legit? One can probably think that he will be really late if he transfers the btc to his wallet and then to the site.



And he has no way on proving that he owns such address, but the support from the other site could easily state that he actually owns or not said address, probably they will be more eager to help given that they are the ones that sent the transaction without fees. Wouldn't that be sufficient to entitle him for a refund?



I understand your point, but rejecting the bet because of being late protects the user in the same way than this policy, doesn't it?Also, if you find a bet you find interesting, but you have your btc on a site, is it such a crime to try to get in if you think the bet is still valid? Wouldn't you assume if you are too late that it will be refunded to you if the place is legit? One can probably think that he will be really late if he transfers the btc to his wallet and then to the site.And he has no way on proving that he owns such address, but the support from the other site could easily state that he actually owns or not said address, probably they will be more eager to help given that they are the ones that sent the transaction without fees. Wouldn't that be sufficient to entitle him for a refund?

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Sr. MemberActivity: 394Merit: 250 Re: Terrible Experience with Bets of Bitcoin / Bitbet November 21, 2013, 06:40:25 PM #105 Quote from: snackman on November 21, 2013, 05:03:25 PM Quote from: Bugpowder on November 21, 2013, 04:43:21 PM Don't expect BitBet to change a policy that supplies a sizable proportion of the S.BBET dividends.



How many of the #bitcoin-assets chatters are here because they own shares in BitBet and my complaint threatens their dividends?



Bugpowder is

----------------------------------------



How many of the #bitcoin-assets chatters are here because they own shares in BitBet and my complaint threatens their dividends?Bugpowder is yet another #bitcoin-assets guy ----------------------------------------

I'm a bitcoin-assets guy, because that's where people that know what's going on in the bitcoin space hang out. That said, I don't currently own shares in any MPEX listed security, nor any other bitcoin denominated security. I don't like the counterparty risk associated with virtual shares in virtual companies in a virtual world now that bitcoins have tremendous fiat value. Everyone is a hustler in the bitcoin space (much like the general financial services space), and its hard to avoid getting burned at least once, particularly since getting legal relief is usually impossible. 10BTC is a small price to pay to learn this lesson, relative to what others have paid in the past (myself included).



Good luck collecting on your non-currency based gambling transaction with a virtual company run out of deep eastern Europe.



I'm a bitcoin-assets guy, because that's where people that know what's going on in the bitcoin space hang out. That said, I don't currently own shares in any MPEX listed security, nor any other bitcoin denominated security. I don't like the counterparty risk associated with virtual shares in virtual companies in a virtual world now that bitcoins have tremendous fiat value. Everyone is a hustler in the bitcoin space (much like the general financial services space), and its hard to avoid getting burned at least once, particularly since getting legal relief is usually impossible. 10BTC is a small price to pay to learn this lesson, relative to what others have paid in the past (myself included).Good luck collecting on your non-currency based gambling transaction with a virtual company run out of deep eastern Europe.

deadweasel



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Sr. MemberActivity: 364Merit: 250 Re: Terrible Experience with Bets of Bitcoin / Bitbet November 21, 2013, 06:47:17 PM #106 Quote from: MoneyMorpheus on November 21, 2013, 06:38:36 PM Quote from: deadweasel on November 21, 2013, 06:19:45 PM Quote from: MoneyMorpheus on November 21, 2013, 05:39:18 PM

A bet can either be accepted or rejected, how is it a legit action to accept and reject it at the same time?



Because betting late is scamming legit users. When a user DECIDE to bet late they RISK their BTC by betting late and essentially scamming the system when a bet resolution is clear. (screwing those who bet early with no knowledge of the bet outcome).



This policy was instituted because legit users were getting squeezed out of their winnings because of people like snackman. Bitbet.us took a hardline stance and publicly stated so. Should they spam each bettor with the FAQ before placing a bet? I dunno, I am not involved in any way (besides a user).



You can bet all day on bitbet.us safely. If you bet close to the closing date then you are taking EXTRA risk which is an EXTRA service rendered in terms of gambling.



Snackman's inability to:





1. Use bitcoin-qt or legit web-wallet to even receive a refund, IF BITBET wanted to. There is no way to refund as he did not do this. FAIL 1.



2. Read the FAQ FAIL 2.



3. Send a small amount first FAIL 3.



4. Admit his mistake of not reading the FAQ, accept his part in it, and request a refund based on his newbie dumb-ass status. Would this have worked to get a refund? We will never know now, will we? FAIL 4.



Running around fucking up based on assumptions of how a gambling site should behave is no way to keep your BTC.



It is, indeed, time to grow up. Is it time for Bitbet.us to change that policy? I don't know, but none of you have any fucking say in it. Lots of big players use BitBet correctly and safely, and the loss of users like snackman is actually a boon to the business. So, keep it up!





Because betting late is scamming legit users. When a user DECIDE to bet late they RISK their BTC by betting late and essentially scamming the system when a bet resolution is clear. (screwing those who bet early with no knowledge of the bet outcome).This policy was instituted because legit users were getting squeezed out of their winnings because of people like snackman. Bitbet.us took a hardline stance and publicly stated so. Should they spam each bettor with the FAQ before placing a bet? I dunno, I am not involved in any way (besides a user).You can bet all day on bitbet.us safely. If you bet close to the closing date then you are taking EXTRA risk which is an EXTRA service rendered in terms of gambling.Snackman's inability to:1. Use bitcoin-qt or legit web-wallet to even receive a refund, IF BITBET wanted to. There is no way to refund as he did not do this. FAIL 1.2. Read the FAQ FAIL 2.3. Send a small amount first FAIL 3.4. Admit his mistake of not reading the FAQ, accept his part in it, and request a refund based on his newbie dumb-ass status. Would this have worked to get a refund? We will never know now, will we? FAIL 4.Running around fucking up based on assumptions of how a gambling site should behave is no way to keep your BTC.It is, indeed, time to grow up. Is it time for Bitbet.us to change that policy? I don't know, but none of you have any fucking say in it. Lots of big players use BitBet correctly and safely, and the loss of users like snackman is actually a boon to the business. So, keep it up!



I understand your point, but rejecting the bet because of being late protects the user in the same way than this policy, doesn't it?



Also, if you find a bet you find interesting, but you have your btc on a site, is it such a crime to try to get in if you think the bet is still valid? Wouldn't you assume if you are too late that it will be refunded to you if the place is legit? One can probably think that he will be really late if he transfers the btc to his wallet and then to the site.



And he has no way on proving that he owns such address, but the support from the other site could easily state that he actually owns or not said address, probably they will be more eager to help given that they are the ones that sent the transaction without fees. Wouldn't that be sufficient to entitle him for a refund?





I understand your point, but rejecting the bet because of being late protects the user in the same way than this policy, doesn't it?Also, if you find a bet you find interesting, but you have your btc on a site, is it such a crime to try to get in if you think the bet is still valid? Wouldn't you assume if you are too late that it will be refunded to you if the place is legit? One can probably think that he will be really late if he transfers the btc to his wallet and then to the site.And he has no way on proving that he owns such address, but the support from the other site could easily state that he actually owns or not said address, probably they will be more eager to help given that they are the ones that sent the transaction without fees. Wouldn't that be sufficient to entitle him for a refund?

Yes, I would be fine with either policy. This is because I would never send anything to any site (much less $9,000) without reading the fine print. I don't sweat policies because I read them.



If I find a bet interesting, being a reasonable person, I would send from my blockchain.info hot wallet which contains very little BTC. Again, because I read the fine print and already know that shitty wallets can't get refunds -- because I ask questions when there is a gray area.



I would also look at the closing date and make sure I'm in at least a few days securely before bet closing, or I would not bet. So, no, I wouldn't assume anything, I have made such mistakes in the past and learned from them.



BetsOfBitcoin could not verify identity at all, afaik. How could they?



Yes, I would be fine with either policy. This is because I would never send anything to any site (much less $9,000) without reading the fine print. I don't sweat policies because I read them.If I find a bet interesting, being a reasonable person, I would send from my blockchain.info hot wallet which contains very little BTC. Again, because I read the fine print and already know that shitty wallets can't get refunds -- because I ask questions when there is a gray area.I would also look at the closing date and make sure I'm in at least a few days securely before bet closing, or I would not bet. So, no, I wouldn't assume anything, I have made such mistakes in the past and learned from them.BetsOfBitcoin could not verify identity at all, afaik. How could they? Soaring Dragon Self-Cultivation

MoneyMorpheus



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Sr. MemberActivity: 251Merit: 250 Re: Terrible Experience with Bets of Bitcoin / Bitbet November 21, 2013, 07:02:44 PM #107 Quote from: deadweasel on November 21, 2013, 06:47:17 PM Quote from: MoneyMorpheus on November 21, 2013, 06:38:36 PM Quote from: deadweasel on November 21, 2013, 06:19:45 PM Quote from: MoneyMorpheus on November 21, 2013, 05:39:18 PM

A bet can either be accepted or rejected, how is it a legit action to accept and reject it at the same time?



Because betting late is scamming legit users. When a user DECIDE to bet late they RISK their BTC by betting late and essentially scamming the system when a bet resolution is clear. (screwing those who bet early with no knowledge of the bet outcome).



This policy was instituted because legit users were getting squeezed out of their winnings because of people like snackman. Bitbet.us took a hardline stance and publicly stated so. Should they spam each bettor with the FAQ before placing a bet? I dunno, I am not involved in any way (besides a user).



You can bet all day on bitbet.us safely. If you bet close to the closing date then you are taking EXTRA risk which is an EXTRA service rendered in terms of gambling.



Snackman's inability to:





1. Use bitcoin-qt or legit web-wallet to even receive a refund, IF BITBET wanted to. There is no way to refund as he did not do this. FAIL 1.



2. Read the FAQ FAIL 2.



3. Send a small amount first FAIL 3.



4. Admit his mistake of not reading the FAQ, accept his part in it, and request a refund based on his newbie dumb-ass status. Would this have worked to get a refund? We will never know now, will we? FAIL 4.



Running around fucking up based on assumptions of how a gambling site should behave is no way to keep your BTC.



It is, indeed, time to grow up. Is it time for Bitbet.us to change that policy? I don't know, but none of you have any fucking say in it. Lots of big players use BitBet correctly and safely, and the loss of users like snackman is actually a boon to the business. So, keep it up!





Because betting late is scamming legit users. When a user DECIDE to bet late they RISK their BTC by betting late and essentially scamming the system when a bet resolution is clear. (screwing those who bet early with no knowledge of the bet outcome).This policy was instituted because legit users were getting squeezed out of their winnings because of people like snackman. Bitbet.us took a hardline stance and publicly stated so. Should they spam each bettor with the FAQ before placing a bet? I dunno, I am not involved in any way (besides a user).You can bet all day on bitbet.us safely. If you bet close to the closing date then you are taking EXTRA risk which is an EXTRA service rendered in terms of gambling.Snackman's inability to:1. Use bitcoin-qt or legit web-wallet to even receive a refund, IF BITBET wanted to. There is no way to refund as he did not do this. FAIL 1.2. Read the FAQ FAIL 2.3. Send a small amount first FAIL 3.4. Admit his mistake of not reading the FAQ, accept his part in it, and request a refund based on his newbie dumb-ass status. Would this have worked to get a refund? We will never know now, will we? FAIL 4.Running around fucking up based on assumptions of how a gambling site should behave is no way to keep your BTC.It is, indeed, time to grow up. Is it time for Bitbet.us to change that policy? I don't know, but none of you have any fucking say in it. Lots of big players use BitBet correctly and safely, and the loss of users like snackman is actually a boon to the business. So, keep it up!



I understand your point, but rejecting the bet because of being late protects the user in the same way than this policy, doesn't it?



Also, if you find a bet you find interesting, but you have your btc on a site, is it such a crime to try to get in if you think the bet is still valid? Wouldn't you assume if you are too late that it will be refunded to you if the place is legit? One can probably think that he will be really late if he transfers the btc to his wallet and then to the site.



And he has no way on proving that he owns such address, but the support from the other site could easily state that he actually owns or not said address, probably they will be more eager to help given that they are the ones that sent the transaction without fees. Wouldn't that be sufficient to entitle him for a refund?





I understand your point, but rejecting the bet because of being late protects the user in the same way than this policy, doesn't it?Also, if you find a bet you find interesting, but you have your btc on a site, is it such a crime to try to get in if you think the bet is still valid? Wouldn't you assume if you are too late that it will be refunded to you if the place is legit? One can probably think that he will be really late if he transfers the btc to his wallet and then to the site.And he has no way on proving that he owns such address, but the support from the other site could easily state that he actually owns or not said address, probably they will be more eager to help given that they are the ones that sent the transaction without fees. Wouldn't that be sufficient to entitle him for a refund?

Yes, I would be fine with either policy. This is because I would never send anything to any site (much less $9,000) without reading the fine print. I don't sweat policies because I read them.



If I find a bet interesting, being a reasonable person, I would send from my blockchain.info hot wallet which contains very little BTC. Again, because I read the fine print and already know that shitty wallets can't get refunds -- because I ask questions when there is a gray area.



I would also look at the closing date and make sure I'm in at least a few days securely before bet closing, or I would not bet. So, no, I wouldn't assume anything, I have made such mistakes in the past and learned from them.



BetsOfBitcoin could not verify identity at all, afaik. How could they?





Yes, I would be fine with either policy. This is because I would never send anything to any site (much less $9,000) without reading the fine print. I don't sweat policies because I read them.If I find a bet interesting, being a reasonable person, I would send from my blockchain.info hot wallet which contains very little BTC. Again, because I read the fine print and already know that shitty wallets can't get refunds -- because I ask questions when there is a gray area.I would also look at the closing date and make sure I'm in at least a few days securely before bet closing, or I would not bet. So, no, I wouldn't assume anything, I have made such mistakes in the past and learned from them.BetsOfBitcoin could not verify identity at all, afaik. How could they?

Thats the thing, some people take precautions, some not; some use protection, some end up with unexpected kids



Or more seriously, some people are adverse to risks, some love them...



Well when I said that of BoB I'm assuming that someone that runs the site has access to all the private keys of all the address and the database that states which address belongs to which user; and that such person is willing to do all the verification and sign a message with the involved address stating it belongs to person x and that it should be refunded to address z. Other than lack of willingness I don't see why it couldn't be done. Thats the thing, some people take precautions, some not; some use protection, some end up with unexpected kidsOr more seriously, some people are adverse to risks, some love them...Well when I said that of BoB I'm assuming that someone that runs the site has access to all the private keys of all the address and the database that states which address belongs to which user; and that such person is willing to do all the verification and sign a message with the involved address stating it belongs to person x and that it should be refunded to address z. Other than lack of willingness I don't see why it couldn't be done.

| You may run into issues some time, but support will take care of you threw qq in chinese hours

1EGoA5LMV391Psf8ZHShTkTd3tQ6URKQEp Best altcoin exchange: https://vircurex.com/welcome/index?referral_id=241-35101 https://bter.com/signup/121418 | You may run into issues some time, but support will take care of you threw qq in chinese hours1EGoA5LMV391Psf8ZHShTkTd3tQ6URKQEp

deadweasel



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Sr. MemberActivity: 364Merit: 250 Re: Terrible Experience with Bets of Bitcoin / Bitbet November 21, 2013, 07:26:22 PM #109 Quote from: MoneyMorpheus on November 21, 2013, 07:02:44 PM Quote from: deadweasel on November 21, 2013, 06:47:17 PM Quote from: MoneyMorpheus on November 21, 2013, 06:38:36 PM Quote from: deadweasel on November 21, 2013, 06:19:45 PM Quote from: MoneyMorpheus on November 21, 2013, 05:39:18 PM

A bet can either be accepted or rejected, how is it a legit action to accept and reject it at the same time?



Because betting late is scamming legit users. When a user DECIDE to bet late they RISK their BTC by betting late and essentially scamming the system when a bet resolution is clear. (screwing those who bet early with no knowledge of the bet outcome).



This policy was instituted because legit users were getting squeezed out of their winnings because of people like snackman. Bitbet.us took a hardline stance and publicly stated so. Should they spam each bettor with the FAQ before placing a bet? I dunno, I am not involved in any way (besides a user).



You can bet all day on bitbet.us safely. If you bet close to the closing date then you are taking EXTRA risk which is an EXTRA service rendered in terms of gambling.



Snackman's inability to:





1. Use bitcoin-qt or legit web-wallet to even receive a refund, IF BITBET wanted to. There is no way to refund as he did not do this. FAIL 1.



2. Read the FAQ FAIL 2.



3. Send a small amount first FAIL 3.



4. Admit his mistake of not reading the FAQ, accept his part in it, and request a refund based on his newbie dumb-ass status. Would this have worked to get a refund? We will never know now, will we? FAIL 4.



Running around fucking up based on assumptions of how a gambling site should behave is no way to keep your BTC.



It is, indeed, time to grow up. Is it time for Bitbet.us to change that policy? I don't know, but none of you have any fucking say in it. Lots of big players use BitBet correctly and safely, and the loss of users like snackman is actually a boon to the business. So, keep it up!





Because betting late is scamming legit users. When a user DECIDE to bet late they RISK their BTC by betting late and essentially scamming the system when a bet resolution is clear. (screwing those who bet early with no knowledge of the bet outcome).This policy was instituted because legit users were getting squeezed out of their winnings because of people like snackman. Bitbet.us took a hardline stance and publicly stated so. Should they spam each bettor with the FAQ before placing a bet? I dunno, I am not involved in any way (besides a user).You can bet all day on bitbet.us safely. If you bet close to the closing date then you are taking EXTRA risk which is an EXTRA service rendered in terms of gambling.Snackman's inability to:1. Use bitcoin-qt or legit web-wallet to even receive a refund, IF BITBET wanted to. There is no way to refund as he did not do this. FAIL 1.2. Read the FAQ FAIL 2.3. Send a small amount first FAIL 3.4. Admit his mistake of not reading the FAQ, accept his part in it, and request a refund based on his newbie dumb-ass status. Would this have worked to get a refund? We will never know now, will we? FAIL 4.Running around fucking up based on assumptions of how a gambling site should behave is no way to keep your BTC.It is, indeed, time to grow up. Is it time for Bitbet.us to change that policy? I don't know, but none of you have any fucking say in it. Lots of big players use BitBet correctly and safely, and the loss of users like snackman is actually a boon to the business. So, keep it up!



I understand your point, but rejecting the bet because of being late protects the user in the same way than this policy, doesn't it?



Also, if you find a bet you find interesting, but you have your btc on a site, is it such a crime to try to get in if you think the bet is still valid? Wouldn't you assume if you are too late that it will be refunded to you if the place is legit? One can probably think that he will be really late if he transfers the btc to his wallet and then to the site.



And he has no way on proving that he owns such address, but the support from the other site could easily state that he actually owns or not said address, probably they will be more eager to help given that they are the ones that sent the transaction without fees. Wouldn't that be sufficient to entitle him for a refund?





I understand your point, but rejecting the bet because of being late protects the user in the same way than this policy, doesn't it?Also, if you find a bet you find interesting, but you have your btc on a site, is it such a crime to try to get in if you think the bet is still valid? Wouldn't you assume if you are too late that it will be refunded to you if the place is legit? One can probably think that he will be really late if he transfers the btc to his wallet and then to the site.And he has no way on proving that he owns such address, but the support from the other site could easily state that he actually owns or not said address, probably they will be more eager to help given that they are the ones that sent the transaction without fees. Wouldn't that be sufficient to entitle him for a refund?

Yes, I would be fine with either policy. This is because I would never send anything to any site (much less $9,000) without reading the fine print. I don't sweat policies because I read them.



If I find a bet interesting, being a reasonable person, I would send from my blockchain.info hot wallet which contains very little BTC. Again, because I read the fine print and already know that shitty wallets can't get refunds -- because I ask questions when there is a gray area.



I would also look at the closing date and make sure I'm in at least a few days securely before bet closing, or I would not bet. So, no, I wouldn't assume anything, I have made such mistakes in the past and learned from them.



BetsOfBitcoin could not verify identity at all, afaik. How could they?





Yes, I would be fine with either policy. This is because I would never send anything to any site (much less $9,000) without reading the fine print. I don't sweat policies because I read them.If I find a bet interesting, being a reasonable person, I would send from my blockchain.info hot wallet which contains very little BTC. Again, because I read the fine print and already know that shitty wallets can't get refunds -- because I ask questions when there is a gray area.I would also look at the closing date and make sure I'm in at least a few days securely before bet closing, or I would not bet. So, no, I wouldn't assume anything, I have made such mistakes in the past and learned from them.BetsOfBitcoin could not verify identity at all, afaik. How could they?

Thats the thing, some people take precautions, some not; some use protection, some end up with unexpected kids



Or more seriously, some people are adverse to risks, some love them...



Well when I said that of BoB I'm assuming that someone that runs the site has access to all the private keys of all the address and the database that states which address belongs to which user; and that such person is willing to do all the verification and sign a message with the involved address stating it belongs to person x and that it should be refunded to address z. Other than lack of willingness I don't see why it couldn't be done.

Thats the thing, some people take precautions, some not; some use protection, some end up with unexpected kidsOr more seriously, some people are adverse to risks, some love them...Well when I said that of BoB I'm assuming that someone that runs the site has access to all the private keys of all the address and the database that states which address belongs to which user; and that such person is willing to do all the verification and sign a message with the involved address stating it belongs to person x and that it should be refunded to address z. Other than lack of willingness I don't see why it couldn't be done.



I just checked, now you need a login. They could *probably* do this if they were so inclined. I'm just trying to figure out why they should when snackman was trying to scam all the legit bettors out of their winnings? My guess because bets are anonymous. I haven't checked in a year or so but last time I was there you send to a BTC address and if you won, it was sent back. Never did I need to put in a piece of identifiable information.I just checked, now you need a login. They could *probably* do this if they were so inclined. I'm just trying to figure out why they should when snackman was trying to scam all the legit bettors out of their winnings? Soaring Dragon Self-Cultivation

MoneyMorpheus



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Sr. MemberActivity: 251Merit: 250 Re: Terrible Experience with Bets of Bitcoin / Bitbet November 21, 2013, 09:14:06 PM #112 Quote from: deadweasel on November 21, 2013, 07:26:22 PM Quote from: MoneyMorpheus on November 21, 2013, 07:02:44 PM Quote from: deadweasel on November 21, 2013, 06:47:17 PM Quote from: MoneyMorpheus on November 21, 2013, 06:38:36 PM Quote from: deadweasel on November 21, 2013, 06:19:45 PM Quote from: MoneyMorpheus on November 21, 2013, 05:39:18 PM

A bet can either be accepted or rejected, how is it a legit action to accept and reject it at the same time?



Because betting late is scamming legit users. When a user DECIDE to bet late they RISK their BTC by betting late and essentially scamming the system when a bet resolution is clear. (screwing those who bet early with no knowledge of the bet outcome).



This policy was instituted because legit users were getting squeezed out of their winnings because of people like snackman. Bitbet.us took a hardline stance and publicly stated so. Should they spam each bettor with the FAQ before placing a bet? I dunno, I am not involved in any way (besides a user).



You can bet all day on bitbet.us safely. If you bet close to the closing date then you are taking EXTRA risk which is an EXTRA service rendered in terms of gambling.



Snackman's inability to:





1. Use bitcoin-qt or legit web-wallet to even receive a refund, IF BITBET wanted to. There is no way to refund as he did not do this. FAIL 1.



2. Read the FAQ FAIL 2.



3. Send a small amount first FAIL 3.



4. Admit his mistake of not reading the FAQ, accept his part in it, and request a refund based on his newbie dumb-ass status. Would this have worked to get a refund? We will never know now, will we? FAIL 4.



Running around fucking up based on assumptions of how a gambling site should behave is no way to keep your BTC.



It is, indeed, time to grow up. Is it time for Bitbet.us to change that policy? I don't know, but none of you have any fucking say in it. Lots of big players use BitBet correctly and safely, and the loss of users like snackman is actually a boon to the business. So, keep it up!





Because betting late is scamming legit users. When a user DECIDE to bet late they RISK their BTC by betting late and essentially scamming the system when a bet resolution is clear. (screwing those who bet early with no knowledge of the bet outcome).This policy was instituted because legit users were getting squeezed out of their winnings because of people like snackman. Bitbet.us took a hardline stance and publicly stated so. Should they spam each bettor with the FAQ before placing a bet? I dunno, I am not involved in any way (besides a user).You can bet all day on bitbet.us safely. If you bet close to the closing date then you are taking EXTRA risk which is an EXTRA service rendered in terms of gambling.Snackman's inability to:1. Use bitcoin-qt or legit web-wallet to even receive a refund, IF BITBET wanted to. There is no way to refund as he did not do this. FAIL 1.2. Read the FAQ FAIL 2.3. Send a small amount first FAIL 3.4. Admit his mistake of not reading the FAQ, accept his part in it, and request a refund based on his newbie dumb-ass status. Would this have worked to get a refund? We will never know now, will we? FAIL 4.Running around fucking up based on assumptions of how a gambling site should behave is no way to keep your BTC.It is, indeed, time to grow up. Is it time for Bitbet.us to change that policy? I don't know, but none of you have any fucking say in it. Lots of big players use BitBet correctly and safely, and the loss of users like snackman is actually a boon to the business. So, keep it up!



I understand your point, but rejecting the bet because of being late protects the user in the same way than this policy, doesn't it?



Also, if you find a bet you find interesting, but you have your btc on a site, is it such a crime to try to get in if you think the bet is still valid? Wouldn't you assume if you are too late that it will be refunded to you if the place is legit? One can probably think that he will be really late if he transfers the btc to his wallet and then to the site.



And he has no way on proving that he owns such address, but the support from the other site could easily state that he actually owns or not said address, probably they will be more eager to help given that they are the ones that sent the transaction without fees. Wouldn't that be sufficient to entitle him for a refund?





I understand your point, but rejecting the bet because of being late protects the user in the same way than this policy, doesn't it?Also, if you find a bet you find interesting, but you have your btc on a site, is it such a crime to try to get in if you think the bet is still valid? Wouldn't you assume if you are too late that it will be refunded to you if the place is legit? One can probably think that he will be really late if he transfers the btc to his wallet and then to the site.And he has no way on proving that he owns such address, but the support from the other site could easily state that he actually owns or not said address, probably they will be more eager to help given that they are the ones that sent the transaction without fees. Wouldn't that be sufficient to entitle him for a refund?

Yes, I would be fine with either policy. This is because I would never send anything to any site (much less $9,000) without reading the fine print. I don't sweat policies because I read them.



If I find a bet interesting, being a reasonable person, I would send from my blockchain.info hot wallet which contains very little BTC. Again, because I read the fine print and already know that shitty wallets can't get refunds -- because I ask questions when there is a gray area.



I would also look at the closing date and make sure I'm in at least a few days securely before bet closing, or I would not bet. So, no, I wouldn't assume anything, I have made such mistakes in the past and learned from them.



BetsOfBitcoin could not verify identity at all, afaik. How could they?





Yes, I would be fine with either policy. This is because I would never send anything to any site (much less $9,000) without reading the fine print. I don't sweat policies because I read them.If I find a bet interesting, being a reasonable person, I would send from my blockchain.info hot wallet which contains very little BTC. Again, because I read the fine print and already know that shitty wallets can't get refunds -- because I ask questions when there is a gray area.I would also look at the closing date and make sure I'm in at least a few days securely before bet closing, or I would not bet. So, no, I wouldn't assume anything, I have made such mistakes in the past and learned from them.BetsOfBitcoin could not verify identity at all, afaik. How could they?

Thats the thing, some people take precautions, some not; some use protection, some end up with unexpected kids



Or more seriously, some people are adverse to risks, some love them...



Well when I said that of BoB I'm assuming that someone that runs the site has access to all the private keys of all the address and the database that states which address belongs to which user; and that such person is willing to do all the verification and sign a message with the involved address stating it belongs to person x and that it should be refunded to address z. Other than lack of willingness I don't see why it couldn't be done.

Thats the thing, some people take precautions, some not; some use protection, some end up with unexpected kidsOr more seriously, some people are adverse to risks, some love them...Well when I said that of BoB I'm assuming that someone that runs the site has access to all the private keys of all the address and the database that states which address belongs to which user; and that such person is willing to do all the verification and sign a message with the involved address stating it belongs to person x and that it should be refunded to address z. Other than lack of willingness I don't see why it couldn't be done.



I just checked, now you need a login. They could *probably* do this if they were so inclined. I'm just trying to figure out why they should when snackman was trying to scam all the legit bettors out of their winnings?

My guess because bets are anonymous. I haven't checked in a year or so but last time I was there you send to a BTC address and if you won, it was sent back. Never did I need to put in a piece of identifiable information.I just checked, now you need a login. They could *probably* do this if they were so inclined. I'm just trying to figure out why they should when snackman was trying to scam all the legit bettors out of their winnings?

Thats the thing, how you know he was trying to scam the other bettors of their winnings and not trying to place a legit bet? Its a very thin line. I haven't actually check what he bet and at what time, but if the bet was still open at the time he initiated the transfer I don't see how he was doing this; and even if he did initiated the bet late, how do you know he was actually trying to scam and not making an honest mistake?



A good policy will only affect the scammers and not the honest people as well. From what I read here I have a very reasonable doubt he was actually trying to scam the bettors. If someone here can explain with details how he was trying to achieve this I might change my mind, but the system already rejects late bets, how is it that this late bet is different than the others? This is actually the fishy point that keeps bugging me.



Don't get me wrong, I never bet on the betting sites, mainly because I'm too paranoid and most of them look like they where not professionally done. I'm adverse to risks and I think that I'm not only risking in loosing the bet but in being scammed as well. Anyone could actually put up a decently looking betting site and wait for the fish to bet and take their money. I never actually checked them but I saw some fishy sites every now and then posted in the forum. If snackman was actually trying to scam the bettors I think it is bitbet's duty to show irrefutable proof of this; not only because it the right thing to do, but because I'm pretty sure it will affect their reputation if they don't. Righ