

I had what is probably the greatest experience ive ever had today, and it wasn't even my own, i had a couple points of bundelweed DMT saved in the fridge for a while for this very day, not knowing when it may happen



My buddy coty was driven up here for christmas by his brother yesterday, he is congenitally blind from birth. He was born with a type of disease i cannot pronounce or spell. He is a frequent cannabis smoker.



When i got up this morning e had a small breakfast of fruit, and then i removed it from the frisge and explained to him what it was, and the process, and that i had a theory....



His visual cortex is completely intact, but he just doesnt have eyes, sohe should be able to have a dmt experience, he has never had any true psychedelics before today, as the duration of the experiences put him off from it. My theory was that, never having had the experience of vision , he would not be able to describe what it was that happened, but i would be able to tell if it did based on his reaction.



So...i convinced hi it was worth the 10 minutes it takes, and convinced him he would benefit fro the experience. and if not, hell its only 10 minutes.



I helped guide him down to my pond, i set up some lan chairs as it was in the upper 50s today and sunny, felt really nice. i loaded the bowl, gave it to hi and helped hi light it....he took three huge rips, holding each in probably 20 seconds.



Now Coty usually hold his eyes closed, the only time ive ever seen his eyes was when i first met him, he has to actively try to open them because its a movement he almost NEVER does, he does not have the uscle memory for it so it take effort for him.



as soon as he let out the last hit his eyes opened, not just open they SHOT WIDE open, he leaned onto his knees out of the chair, how he could even move i not sure, but he started sobbing, he cried for about 7 minutes...



As suspected he cannot say anything but one word about the experience, ALL he can say, with sobbing tears, is "so beautiful, so beatuiful, i cant....i dont....its just so beautiful"



This was abut 10 hours ago....hes still asking me if that is what seeing is....



How do i respond to that.....



He cant describe what it is he saw.....but he saw....and hes been blind from birth....



i dont know where i go from here, but we both feel as if we have uncovered something more profound than the experience itself



i just thought i would leave this here as i have NO IDEA the implications of this, and i have no hope of ever getting an explanation of exactly what he experienced fro him, as he has no means of comparisson or contrast....



also, i wanted to start a discussion about this, sees VERY interesting...



--------------------

Current grow http://www.shroomery.org/forums/ showflat.php/Number/20874344



"We are the subjective experiences of a singular self that has set its own being here to experience itself on a collective basis, this state is the dream, and the dream is eternity, and thus, reality"

~Makes sense while im high



"You and I are all as much continuous with the physical universe as a wave is continuous with the ocean. The ocean waves, and the universe peoples. What you are doing, is the same thing the entire universe is doing in the place you call here and now, you are something the whole universe is doing, in the same way a single wave is what the entire ocean is doing."



~Alan Watts



Edited by thatoneguy1001 (12/18/14 07:56 PM)



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it is.......so many warm and fuzzies





i cant believe more people havnt thought about this experiment lol





or they have and just dont know someone who was blind from birth



i keep getting teary eyed thinking about it



Coty has had this funky sile on his face ALL DAY



we all know that smile, just cool to know he can know it too



Edited by thatoneguy1001 (12/18/14 04:39 PM)



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Quote:

psilocybeMAN said:

That is pretty incredible. I wonder what he saw.....









bind fro birth, no means of comparing and contrast, all we can do is know it did what it was supposed to, but he lacks the context to describe it, so we will never know exactly unfortunately







my question, is how can a mind, having never had the experience of vision, create vision even if just a mental image? does this not imply there is something deeper going on here?



--------------------

Current grow http://www.shroomery.org/forums/ showflat.php/Number/20874344



"We are the subjective experiences of a singular self that has set its own being here to experience itself on a collective basis, this state is the dream, and the dream is eternity, and thus, reality"

~Makes sense while im high



"You and I are all as much continuous with the physical universe as a wave is continuous with the ocean. The ocean waves, and the universe peoples. What you are doing, is the same thing the entire universe is doing in the place you call here and now, you are something the whole universe is doing, in the same way a single wave is what the entire ocean is doing."



~Alan Watts



Edited by thatoneguy1001 (12/18/14 04:42 PM)



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--------------------

Something there is mysteriously formed,

Existing before Heaven and Earth,

Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging,

All-pervading, unfailing,

I do not know its name; I call it tao.

If forced to give it a name, I call it

Great (ta). Being great, it flows out;

Flowing out means far-reaching;

Being far-reaching, it is said to return.



It's just a shot away..



Post Extras:



really, you need someone with a damaged visual cortex, not just damaged eyes to determine IF something more is going on i guess.





but still....mind=blown





he had to ask ME if that was what seeing is, but not knowing whats going on exactly, i cannot answer that question, and the person not knowing if that is what seeing is, puts a hopeless stick in the wheel of the experiment, it comes down at that point to personal context vocabulary and subective experience, which cannot be objectively verified



idk, still cool



--------------------

Current grow http://www.shroomery.org/forums/ showflat.php/Number/20874344



"We are the subjective experiences of a singular self that has set its own being here to experience itself on a collective basis, this state is the dream, and the dream is eternity, and thus, reality"

~Makes sense while im high



"You and I are all as much continuous with the physical universe as a wave is continuous with the ocean. The ocean waves, and the universe peoples. What you are doing, is the same thing the entire universe is doing in the place you call here and now, you are something the whole universe is doing, in the same way a single wave is what the entire ocean is doing."



~Alan Watts



Edited by thatoneguy1001 (12/18/14 04:48 PM)



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Hmmm...a google search would find plenty of studies

On blind people using lsd,dmt ect...im pretty sure only people who

Had sight to start with see anything and blind from birth

People have audio distortions...



Post Extras:

TrippyDog18





Registered: 12/18/14

Posts: 20

Loc: Great Lakes

Last seen: 5 years, 6 days Eater of CatRegistered: 12/18/14Loc: Great LakesLast seen: 5 years, 6 days Re: I got someone who was blind from birth to smoke DMT!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: wandervogel]

#20994889 - 12/18/14 04:57 PM (5 years, 8 months ago) Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply



Very interesting! You should ask him to draw out his experience; if he "saw" something he should be able to draw a representation.



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Quote:

wandervogel said:

Hmmm...a google search would find plenty of studies

On blind people using lsd,dmt ect...im pretty sure only people who

Had sight to start with see anything and blind from birth

People have audio distortions...







Have read these studies too. All of the only percieve audio distortions are thoughts put forward by scientists, none have been implicitly verified, so i decided to do it for myself. And according to the subjective experience of the individual, there is something going on he cannot describe as he has never experienced anything like it..and doesnt even have the context to begin to....sounds like percieving something visualy to me, especially considering his visual ortex is completey intact, his eyes are not



for us the experience is ineffable as well, but in a differnt way then it turned out for him, we can dance around the experience and talk about and around it all day...he cant even put anything together to talk about it other than him begging e to tell him if thats what seeing is...which i cannot answer lol

Quote:

TrippyDog18 said:

Very interesting! You should ask him to draw out his experience; if he "saw" something he should be able to draw a representation.





hes blind dude, i doubt he can draw what he saw



--------------------

Current grow http://www.shroomery.org/forums/ showflat.php/Number/20874344



"We are the subjective experiences of a singular self that has set its own being here to experience itself on a collective basis, this state is the dream, and the dream is eternity, and thus, reality"

~Makes sense while im high



"You and I are all as much continuous with the physical universe as a wave is continuous with the ocean. The ocean waves, and the universe peoples. What you are doing, is the same thing the entire universe is doing in the place you call here and now, you are something the whole universe is doing, in the same way a single wave is what the entire ocean is doing."



~Alan Watts



Edited by thatoneguy1001 (12/18/14 05:05 PM)



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Fuckin' trippy man. Good work.



--------------------

Orange clock, pencil

"They threw me off the hay truck about noon..."

*Mark 15:34

Gam zeh ya’avor...



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Quote:

thatoneguy1001 said:

This was abut 10 hours ago....hes still asking me if that is what seeing is....



How do i respond to that.....







Be honest and tell him that's not how seeing is unless you are on psychedelics and even then we have the same kind of Closed eye visuals. Vision on psychedelics isn't normal vision be sure to tell him that. What I see on a trip and what you see on a trip is never like what we see 100% sober, so the truth is what he wants and needs to know. Tell him you were glad he was able to enjoy the experience the same basic way we were and that's it's very similar experiences for us both!! You should also tell him many trippers do trips in total darkness as i'm sure he'll instantly be able to relate to that and why people enjoy it



Sounds like he had a very good time, but i'm sure he'd be more upset about his blindness situation if you led him to believe that we're all feeling and seeing awesome shit like that non stop 24/7 when sober lol, which just isn't true. It wouldn't be good for him to hear and think that kind of psychedelic experience is the day to day vision we experience.. The truth is it's an amazing psychedelic and profound experience for us as well him alike. Our minds help us create the imagery with help from the substances.



This is a nice good cheery story, 5 shrooms to you sir



Edited by psilocybinjunkie (12/18/14 05:17 PM)



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Woah, good for him!



I had read up somewhere about people blind from birth trying lsd and having auditory hallucinations. i wonder if he actually saw something. or if he saw something with his third eye



--------------------

Birth from the sun, you are all gods too.

But I'm on a higher level, I am you times two.



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Yea that's a pretty good point right there.



--------------------

Orange clock, pencil

"They threw me off the hay truck about noon..."

*Mark 15:34

Gam zeh ya’avor...



Post Extras:



http://www.near-death.com/experi ences/evidence03.html









Im just going to leave this here:)



--------------------

Birth from the sun, you are all gods too.

But I'm on a higher level, I am you times two.



Post Extras:

TrippyDog18





Registered: 12/18/14

Posts: 20

Loc: Great Lakes

Last seen: 5 years, 6 days Eater of CatRegistered: 12/18/14Loc: Great LakesLast seen: 5 years, 6 days Re: I got someone who was blind from birth to smoke DMT!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: thatoneguy1001] 1

#20994996 - 12/18/14 05:20 PM (5 years, 8 months ago) Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply



http://www.researchgate.net/publ ication/6746446_Blind_man_draws_u sing_diminution_in_three_dimensio ns



The blind can most definitely draw their experiences and sometimes even perspective. If he saw visuals in his mind he would be able to transcribe them to some extent.



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Thanks for sharing your story! It's funny, I've had a color-blind friend named Cody that I've been wanting to introduce DMT to to see if he'd have any stimulation of colors. I never had the right opportunity, but I suspect it would be a profound experience for him.



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Whoa that gave me chills. He's going to see you in a new light forever



--------------------

The mushroom speaks: '"I am old, older than thought in your species, which is itself fifty times older than your history. Though I have been on earth for ages I am from the stars. My home is no one planet, for many worlds scattered through the shining disc of the galaxy have conditions which allow my spores an opportunity for life... How the hypercommunication mode operates is a secret which will not be lightly given to man. But the means should be obvious: it is the occurrence of psilocybin and psilocin in the biosynthetic pathways of my living body that opens for me and my symbiots the vision screens to many worlds"



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Quote:

Bugler Boy said:

Whoa that gave me chills. He's going to see you in a new light forever









literally,



--------------------

Something there is mysteriously formed,

Existing before Heaven and Earth,

Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging,

All-pervading, unfailing,

I do not know its name; I call it tao.

If forced to give it a name, I call it

Great (ta). Being great, it flows out;

Flowing out means far-reaching;

Being far-reaching, it is said to return.



It's just a shot away..



Post Extras:



That story gave me some serious chills. Nice thread.



I have often wondered what it would be like to be blind and experience a psychedelic. Sounds like your friend had a good day.



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Quote:

Bill_Oreilly said:

Quote:

Bugler Boy said:

Whoa that gave me chills. He's going to see you in a new light forever









literally,









Woah.









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I find thing like this interesting. I once saw a man who had been paralyzed from the neck down since he was a teen stand up while on acid.



--------------------





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I explained to him the visions of the psychedelic experience are not necessarily real sight before he even tried it.



And even myself as a sighted person LSD is more auditory than visual for me, and hes a seasoned toker so i knew he could handle the dmt (on the lungs)



His main concern was how long it would last having never experienced it, so i figured n,n,DMT being mostly visual, some auditory but it leaves what is you pretty well intact during the experience, it was a good direction to go.





Still being that its not really true vision, there is still no way to adequately answer the question to his satisfaction, ive been trying for 12 hours xD



Regardless the actual effect, from my perspective he appears to have had some kind of visual something or other during the experience, Even in his shoes, i doubt a mostly auditory or thought stimulating experience would have affected him so profoundly.



As after all our first truely psychedelic experience, the questions abbout mushrooms, lsd, and all kinds of shit have been pouring fro hi.....for unending hours xD





Edited by thatoneguy1001 (12/18/14 06:33 PM)



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Wow I discussed this with a friend the other day! We don't know any blind folks though. Very interesting. I am unsure of this but perhaps he could use analogies to describe shapes. I mean, he knows what a ball feels like and he knows what a cube feels like. He could possibly relate to those objects and communicate wether what he experienced had more ball character or more cube character... But I can also imagine that it is all too fast and novel to proces. Very interesting.



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I think you've really done him a service. Does he meditate?



--------------------

An old man and his grandson are sitting by the fire outside the tepee, wrapped in furs and gazing into the leaping flames. High on a snowy ridge, a wolf howls at the moon and another answers from far away. Soon after, the old man removes the pipe from his mouth.



‘Grandson,’ he says. ‘There are two wolves inside you. One is white and the other is black.’

‘What are they doing there, Grandfather?’ asks the wide-eyed boy.

‘They are fighting each other,’ says the old man.

The boy considers this, then asks, ‘Why are they white and black?’

‘The white one is your love, your peace and your truth. The black one is your fear, your anger and your lies.’



The fire crackles and sparks flare in the night. The wolf on the ridge howls again and the old man puffs contentedly on his pipe. Finally, the boy says, ‘Which one will win, Grandfather?’



‘Ah,’ says the old man, removing the pipe once more. ‘The one that wins is the one that you feed.’



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Quote:

RockyRaccoon said:

Quote:

Bill_Oreilly said:

Quote:

Bugler Boy said:

Whoa that gave me chills. He's going to see you in a new light forever









literally,









Woah.



















--------------------

Something there is mysteriously formed,

Existing before Heaven and Earth,

Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging,

All-pervading, unfailing,

I do not know its name; I call it tao.

If forced to give it a name, I call it

Great (ta). Being great, it flows out;

Flowing out means far-reaching;

Being far-reaching, it is said to return.



It's just a shot away..



Post Extras:



ive anaged to get a description of what sounds like he ay be talking about different shades of the same colors, but its really hard to pull my own mental picture of anything hes trying to describe.



i keep istening for phrases like "looks like" and shit....but they dont come lol



i feel like he definately had the visual aspect of the dmt experience just by his reaction, which was what i was interested in, i did not forsee how hard it would be to know for sure though in the beginning, hence the thread lol









--------------------

Current grow http://www.shroomery.org/forums/ showflat.php/Number/20874344



"We are the subjective experiences of a singular self that has set its own being here to experience itself on a collective basis, this state is the dream, and the dream is eternity, and thus, reality"

~Makes sense while im high



"You and I are all as much continuous with the physical universe as a wave is continuous with the ocean. The ocean waves, and the universe peoples. What you are doing, is the same thing the entire universe is doing in the place you call here and now, you are something the whole universe is doing, in the same way a single wave is what the entire ocean is doing."



~Alan Watts



Edited by thatoneguy1001 (12/18/14 06:38 PM)



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theres one easy concept he has that he keeps using trying to put it into words "rotating" and he doesnt mean himself. tryin to figure out what thats worth.





I wish i had had enough to go in with him Quote:

LogicaL Chaos said:

HOLY FUCCCCCCCKKKKKK!!!!!!



This is some GROUND-BREAKING.



I wondeer what he saw????



I bet he saw the entire Universe of his other senses come to life at hyperspeed.



What an INCREDIBLE story. Wow. Just wow.



Cant wait to hear his trip report. How will he even describe it?????







we had already went to do a trip report this morning, thats when we realised how fucking difficult this is to transcribe and make sense to BOTH of us



im sure it would be easier if he had his keyboard with him and he didnt have to dictate to my dumbass xD..



or that fuckin dragon software...would be awesome



Edited by thatoneguy1001 (12/18/14 06:44 PM)



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Wow, this is fucking amazing! I'm so happy for both of you guys. You just made his life 100x better, beautiful. :')



--------------------





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I went to a blind comedian once. He had a story about growing up as a blind kid near a big city park. How trees didn't have branches until he got tall enough to touch them... How he asked his dad where those people with whistles were sitting... He meant birds. They didn't exist because he never got to touch them. His father proceeded to describe them and he said that it was the weirdest story ever:



Birds, well birds are little creatures, like your sister's hamster. Except they have two legs not four. In the place of the other legs they have wings, kind of like that toy airplane you have. And then they don't have hairs but feathers. You know what feathers are because they are on your brother's Indian bonnet. And then they fly which is like running but without ever touching the ground.



Impossible right?



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Rotation is a good start!



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You should have videotaped your conversations with him from right after the experience!



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never said its ipossible, thats why im trying, i just not anticipated how difficult it would be, usually a mental image would be built based on a sense of touch, but hes trying to describe something haveing ZERO context, i cant explain how its a small animal, but with two legs not four, with feathers like my brothers dreamcatcher.



Ive been through the mostions of contrasting with something else, but there is nothing else for him to contrast it to



--------------------

Current grow http://www.shroomery.org/forums/ showflat.php/Number/20874344



"We are the subjective experiences of a singular self that has set its own being here to experience itself on a collective basis, this state is the dream, and the dream is eternity, and thus, reality"

~Makes sense while im high



"You and I are all as much continuous with the physical universe as a wave is continuous with the ocean. The ocean waves, and the universe peoples. What you are doing, is the same thing the entire universe is doing in the place you call here and now, you are something the whole universe is doing, in the same way a single wave is what the entire ocean is doing."



~Alan Watts



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Yeah, maybe start with motion. He knows "rotating" possible strange shapes rotating in the infinite?



Asking him about other motion words, like growing or expanding or twisting. Stuff like that.



Post Extras:



Video taping the experience and the conversation would have been the best way to go about it.



Ive already ordered some bundleweed to do an extraction on and were gonna go in together, video taped, and hes going to transcribe it to the best of his ability on his keyboard when he gets home.



Ill post a copy of it here.



Is there a video hosting method on shroomery? a little hesitant to uplaod out schedule 1 activity to something like youtube



I realise i could have done this is a WAY better, ore manageable, easier to explain way, but the way it worked out he came upspur of the oent last night because he finally had enough gas money to pay his sister to bring him, i had a lil dmt left in the fridge and this morning took the opportunity to figure soething out i have CONSTANTLY wondered about since i discovered psychedelics, but could not find almost ANY consistent info on. THe dots lined up and i went with it relatively unprepared, i had wanted to do this for a while and had worked out basically how i wanted to do it, but still turned out to be spur of the oment



And i am DAMN SURE he will be wanting to go back in, and ill be going with him, with far more preparation, with a camera and his weird fucked up keyboard lol



and rotating (in a manner not referring to him) lines laid on top of each other, but not really lines, more than that, and what sounds like descriptions of different shades of the same colors. thats about where we are at right now, i know he percieved something visual, it was definately profound, i just want to figure out if its the SAME experience, even if your blind from birth, which is proving hard to do with the little info we have



I ean, having never had any experiences of vision, if the DMT experience is the SAME perception wise for them as us, yet never having had any experience of vision,





i feel like the implication of that prove something i too dull to understand



--------------------

Current grow http://www.shroomery.org/forums/ showflat.php/Number/20874344



"We are the subjective experiences of a singular self that has set its own being here to experience itself on a collective basis, this state is the dream, and the dream is eternity, and thus, reality"

~Makes sense while im high



"You and I are all as much continuous with the physical universe as a wave is continuous with the ocean. The ocean waves, and the universe peoples. What you are doing, is the same thing the entire universe is doing in the place you call here and now, you are something the whole universe is doing, in the same way a single wave is what the entire ocean is doing."



~Alan Watts



Edited by thatoneguy1001 (12/18/14 07:02 PM)



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The bird story was not meant to help you out in communicating with him. It was just meant to illustrate how difficult communication about something as trivial as birds can be. If that's the case, how impossible is the task of communicating about a DMT experience then? Heck, I can't even put into words what I see most of the times and I make a living based on my vision (photographer).



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the



imossible right? through me off, i wasnt sure if you were supporting my explanation of how difficult it is, or saying communication is possible here (i thought there was a slight thread of sarcasm there, but sarcasm doesnt translate well through txt)





sorry my misunderstanding





communication can be difficult between two people with fine site^ lol



just trying to understand if his conceptuliaztion of my explanation of "light" is correct...... is a mind fuck xD



weve been through basic shapes and motion enough to know that he visualized something, hell he asked me if that is what seeing is, so i know he had soething visual going on up there.....trying to determine if its the same experience that you have, after havinhg a lifetie of site, is where it gets intangibly difficult



--------------------

Current grow http://www.shroomery.org/forums/ showflat.php/Number/20874344



"We are the subjective experiences of a singular self that has set its own being here to experience itself on a collective basis, this state is the dream, and the dream is eternity, and thus, reality"

~Makes sense while im high



"You and I are all as much continuous with the physical universe as a wave is continuous with the ocean. The ocean waves, and the universe peoples. What you are doing, is the same thing the entire universe is doing in the place you call here and now, you are something the whole universe is doing, in the same way a single wave is what the entire ocean is doing."



~Alan Watts



Edited by thatoneguy1001 (12/18/14 07:10 PM)



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yo guys check out my last post im in desperate need of some tips or something



http://www.shroomery.org/forums/ showflat.php/Number/20994799



--------------------

Birth from the sun, you are all gods too.

But I'm on a higher level, I am you times two.



Post Extras:



This also comes down to the old colour perception debate... Is my green the same green as your green? Or do you see your green things in a way that I would call them red? We can never know. If we can agree on the semantics we assume for reasons of practicality that our experiences are comparable. They might not be however. So even if you find common semantical ground with your blind friend, the implications are questionable.



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but having never had the experience of vision if the experiences are soehow remarably similiar, which i suspect they are, would this not prove there is something going on more than just aplification of subconcious? simply because his subconcious, like him, would have never had the experience of vision to amplify in the first place.



Although im one of the "crackpots who bias toward it being more than just a flib-flob in the visual cortex. then again his visual cortex is perfectly fine, but how can his brain create something visual having never had the experience of it?



but yea, we need to do it again and catalogue the entirety of it, for the eyes of someone unbiased to discern over....however hard that may be to find, us being memebers of this site to begin with, probably means we are HARDLY unbiased......well the most of us



--------------------

Current grow http://www.shroomery.org/forums/ showflat.php/Number/20874344



"We are the subjective experiences of a singular self that has set its own being here to experience itself on a collective basis, this state is the dream, and the dream is eternity, and thus, reality"

~Makes sense while im high



"You and I are all as much continuous with the physical universe as a wave is continuous with the ocean. The ocean waves, and the universe peoples. What you are doing, is the same thing the entire universe is doing in the place you call here and now, you are something the whole universe is doing, in the same way a single wave is what the entire ocean is doing."



~Alan Watts



Edited by thatoneguy1001 (12/18/14 07:24 PM)



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I have seen images that i've never seen before in life, that were created by my own mind, you're a bit off base with some of this reasoning imo.



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Quote:

thatoneguy1001 said:

I had what is probably the greatest experience ive ever had today, and it wasn't even my own, i had a couple points of bundelweed DMT saved in the fridge for a while for this very day



My buddy coty was driven up here for christmas by his brother yesterday, he is congenitally blind from birth. He was born with a type of disease i cannot pronounce or spell. He is a frequent cannabis smoker.



When i got up this morning e had a small breakfast of fruit, and then i removed it from the frisge and explained to him what it was, and the process, and that i had a theory....



His visual cortex is completely intact, but he just doesnt have eyes, sohe should be able to have a dmt experience, he has never had any true psychedelics before today, as the duration of the experiences put him off from it. My theory was that, never having had the experience of vision , he would not be able to describe what it was that happened, but i would be able to tell if it did based on his reaction.



So...i convinced hi it was worth the 10 minutes it takes, and convinced him he would benefit fro the experience. and if not, hell its only 10 minutes.



I helped guide him down to my pond, i set up some lan chairs as it was in the upper 50s today and sunny, felt really nice. i loaded the bowl, gave it to hi and helped hi light it....he took three huge rips, holding each in probably 20 seconds.



Now Coty usually hold his eyes closed, the only time ive ever seen his eyes was when i first met him, he has to actively try to open them because its a movement he almost NEVER does, he does not have the uscle memory for it so it take effort for him.



as soon as he let out the last hit his eyes opened, not just open they SHOT WIDE open, he leaned onto his knees out of the chair, how he could even move i not sure, but he started sobbing, he cried for about 7 minutes...



As suspected he cannot say anything but one word about the experience, ALL he can say, with sobbing tears, is "so beautiful, so beatuiful, i cant....i dont....its just so beautiful"



This was abut 10 hours ago....hes still asking me if that is what seeing is....



How do i respond to that.....



He cant describe what it is he saw.....but he saw....and hes been blind from birth....



i dont know where i go from here, but we both feel as if we have uncovered something more profound than the experience itself



i just thought i would leave this here as i have NO IDEA the implications of this, and i have no hope of ever getting an explanation of exactly what he experienced fro him, as he has no means of comparisson or contrast....



also, i wanted to start a discussion about this, sees VERY interesting...





HOLY FUCK I HAVE BEEN WONDERING THIS FOREVER



THANK YOU@



--------------------

My Drawingzz

Draw DMT!



Trip Report: S H R O O M S D M T ---- My Youtube Psychedelic Channel



Edited by SleepyE (12/18/14 07:31 PM)



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yea, but we have had an entire life full of visual iput, and have emories of that visual nput, its extremely easy to understand how something new and visual can be created by my own mind, but less easy to see how soething new and visual can be created by a mind never haveing ANY visual input whatsoever





I dont see how that logic is not sound, the created by the mind is an amplification of the subconcious theory to begin with, that subconcious, in this case, has never had any visual input









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Current grow http://www.shroomery.org/forums/ showflat.php/Number/20874344



"We are the subjective experiences of a singular self that has set its own being here to experience itself on a collective basis, this state is the dream, and the dream is eternity, and thus, reality"

~Makes sense while im high



"You and I are all as much continuous with the physical universe as a wave is continuous with the ocean. The ocean waves, and the universe peoples. What you are doing, is the same thing the entire universe is doing in the place you call here and now, you are something the whole universe is doing, in the same way a single wave is what the entire ocean is doing."



~Alan Watts



Edited by thatoneguy1001 (12/18/14 07:29 PM)



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I think your friend should try some shrooms.



I bet he will like the experience and maybe will be better to understand whats happening in real time because the effects are not at hyperspeed like DMT.



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he has no context, im trying to figure out if he tuely saw something, or if it was just overwhelming sensory input, affected by synethstesia, which is honestly, far more likely



Context for this is illusive so i literally have no grounds to work from on this, rapidly turning into a though experiment unfortunately



he experienced "soething" profound, and i rapidly discovering how futile it is for him to communicate it to me beyond simple shapes he knows by touch and movement, which both could easily be synesthetic responses based on experience



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Current grow http://www.shroomery.org/forums/ showflat.php/Number/20874344



"We are the subjective experiences of a singular self that has set its own being here to experience itself on a collective basis, this state is the dream, and the dream is eternity, and thus, reality"

~Makes sense while im high



"You and I are all as much continuous with the physical universe as a wave is continuous with the ocean. The ocean waves, and the universe peoples. What you are doing, is the same thing the entire universe is doing in the place you call here and now, you are something the whole universe is doing, in the same way a single wave is what the entire ocean is doing."



~Alan Watts



Edited by thatoneguy1001 (12/18/14 07:33 PM)



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he saw heaven prolly



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welcome to my world http://www.shroomery.org/forums/ postlist.php/Board/326



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believe me, mushrooms as of this morning has been a reoccuring theme, for e personally there is NO better way to go about self discovery than psilocybin.





and my next flush is starting now



and were having trouble with the trip report, he uses a special keyboard to type, he did not bring it as i gave hi no warning of my plans, so hes been trying to dictate it into something i can rationalize





its not working



and about the dream thing, he sais he dreams in english xD, thats about all i can get out of him about that, he sais he rarely remebers anything from dreams at all.



he said there was a presence of form hes never felt in his life, what that could mean i guess hes pondering because he didnt say anything else, and i dont know what to ask in response to that either



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Current grow http://www.shroomery.org/forums/ showflat.php/Number/20874344



"We are the subjective experiences of a singular self that has set its own being here to experience itself on a collective basis, this state is the dream, and the dream is eternity, and thus, reality"

~Makes sense while im high



"You and I are all as much continuous with the physical universe as a wave is continuous with the ocean. The ocean waves, and the universe peoples. What you are doing, is the same thing the entire universe is doing in the place you call here and now, you are something the whole universe is doing, in the same way a single wave is what the entire ocean is doing."



~Alan Watts



Edited by thatoneguy1001 (12/18/14 07:58 PM)



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im planning on staying up all night to ask him about any dreams he may have had as SOON as he wakes up before he can forget them, i will record his response, i interested if anything changes from "just english" after having had the experience of DMT



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Current grow http://www.shroomery.org/forums/ showflat.php/Number/20874344



"We are the subjective experiences of a singular self that has set its own being here to experience itself on a collective basis, this state is the dream, and the dream is eternity, and thus, reality"

~Makes sense while im high



"You and I are all as much continuous with the physical universe as a wave is continuous with the ocean. The ocean waves, and the universe peoples. What you are doing, is the same thing the entire universe is doing in the place you call here and now, you are something the whole universe is doing, in the same way a single wave is what the entire ocean is doing."



~Alan Watts



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Quote:

SleepyE said:

Quote:

thatoneguy1001 said:

and i rapidly discovering how futile it is for him to communicate it to me beyond simple shapes he knows by touch and movement, which both could easily be synesthetic responses based on experience





but if that were the case he would experience those shapes in his dreams.



does he see the background patterning when he presses hard on his eyes?









He had no idea what i was talking about when i asked him so i had hi put pressure on his eyes with his fingers, after about thirty seconds of him saying nothings happening i believe its safe to assume thats a response to putting pressure on the eyes, a singal from the eyes being send to the brain for processing, a signal im guessing has soething to do with increased pressure in the ayeballs casing itself, i wouldnt doubt his eyes are creating the signal, but its obviously not making it into his brain for processing.



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Current grow http://www.shroomery.org/forums/ showflat.php/Number/20874344



"We are the subjective experiences of a singular self that has set its own being here to experience itself on a collective basis, this state is the dream, and the dream is eternity, and thus, reality"

~Makes sense while im high



"You and I are all as much continuous with the physical universe as a wave is continuous with the ocean. The ocean waves, and the universe peoples. What you are doing, is the same thing the entire universe is doing in the place you call here and now, you are something the whole universe is doing, in the same way a single wave is what the entire ocean is doing."



~Alan Watts



Edited by thatoneguy1001 (12/18/14 08:03 PM)



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Have you given him his own time to digest these things? He might need some time in his own mind to sort out and qualify what he experienced.



You may find a more potent description if you give him time to mull it over.



AS you know, explaining the ineffable is well... ineffable



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An old man and his grandson are sitting by the fire outside the tepee, wrapped in furs and gazing into the leaping flames. High on a snowy ridge, a wolf howls at the moon and another answers from far away. Soon after, the old man removes the pipe from his mouth.



‘Grandson,’ he says. ‘There are two wolves inside you. One is white and the other is black.’

‘What are they doing there, Grandfather?’ asks the wide-eyed boy.

‘They are fighting each other,’ says the old man.

The boy considers this, then asks, ‘Why are they white and black?’

‘The white one is your love, your peace and your truth. The black one is your fear, your anger and your lies.’



The fire crackles and sparks flare in the night. The wolf on the ridge howls again and the old man puffs contentedly on his pipe. Finally, the boy says, ‘Which one will win, Grandfather?’



‘Ah,’ says the old man, removing the pipe once more. ‘The one that wins is the one that you feed.’



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hes asking me more than im asking him you can be sure of that. But yea i was just gonna let him go home and do the report himself instead of trying to get him to dictate it...that pretty close to impossible to do your first tie anyway. It escaped me let alone someone with no reference point. i cant even begin to fathom what it would be like.



so asking him to describe it seems a bit pointless when i think about it lol, like asking someone to tell me what language is having just learned to speak xD





We both still got a fair ways to go in life, maybe if he continues go in it will make an amazing book or documentary one day. I Helped !





its hard not to try and poke and prod at something i dont understand though





--------------------

Current grow http://www.shroomery.org/forums/ showflat.php/Number/20874344



"We are the subjective experiences of a singular self that has set its own being here to experience itself on a collective basis, this state is the dream, and the dream is eternity, and thus, reality"

~Makes sense while im high



"You and I are all as much continuous with the physical universe as a wave is continuous with the ocean. The ocean waves, and the universe peoples. What you are doing, is the same thing the entire universe is doing in the place you call here and now, you are something the whole universe is doing, in the same way a single wave is what the entire ocean is doing."



~Alan Watts



Edited by thatoneguy1001 (12/18/14 09:16 PM)



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All I gotta say is HOLY SHIIIIIIT. And that you are a nice dude for doing that!



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Dude, DUDEEEEEE!!!!

I have some analogies and suggestions for you.

One have you ever seen the inside of a car transmission?

The first time it is pretty fucking wild, all kinds of shapes and surface features, pieces move in crazy ways - the whole thing is just so esoteric you wonder how the damn car even goes, you know that the engine turns and that the transmission somehow through all these toothy rings and cogs and shit sends that rotational force to the axels and wheels making the car go, its not untill you see many, sometimes many diffrent kinds and designs, or even just the same one over and over again, you begin to understand how it all works.



I can describe to you every single moving piece in a car; often times with better than 60% accuracy with a new design I have never seen the inner workings of, I have an intuition about me when it comes to mechanical things, but I could not describe any of this stuff to you better than 'toothy round metal things', I suck at simple math let alone the complicated math that is needed to describe things like metalurgical tolerances and rotational algorythems or what ever.

But If you could be a guest in my brain I could show you how it all works, and visual is only a small part of the understanding its just intrinsic.



I suggest you persuade you "friend" to do more; and by more I mean do it again, and do more of it, he says 'rotating lines'? I say that might be the cervix, he needs to push through and birth into the REAL DMT landscape, and I would say as often as other more experienced persons on this board would suggest safely, but if its safe do it like twice or 3 times a week, he needs to become familiar with the internals of this new universe, the first experiment should be to urge him to try to move closer to things (that he sees???) and try to touch them, try to interact with features of the inverse, use his body and his powers to resonate into the intracosm.



You'll need alot of DMT I assume, get one of them toads.



Also is english his first language? If not it could be an added barrier, but I think you are him, cause there is weird missing letters of everything your posting. But SWIY is ok too.



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https://discord.gg/vEVXD4h



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touching story



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"No drug causes the fundamental ills of society. If we’re looking for the source of our troubles, we shouldn’t test people for drugs— we should test them for stupidity, ignorance, greed, and love of power." - PJ O’Rourke



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Ask him to describe the experience first based on the other 4 of his senses that work.



What did you hear?

Did you smell anything?

Taste anything?

Could he physically feel anything? (tactile feelings, touch)

Obviously the emotional shit lol

Ask if what he's experiencing is just "warped" versions of his working senses.



After these are out of the way, it may be easier to narrow down the rest of the experience to combinations of the other senses...



If it's still more than that then i'd say he's probably getting visuals. The part of his brain for sight still works according to you, but not his eyeballs. So there's no reason the visual cortex shit couldn't be activated chemically. Eyes only take in light... the brain does the interpretation. Stimulus would produce result even if there's no reference point as to what "sight" is.



I've melted into a chair tripping.

I have no experience in life prior that i could use as a reference point to know what melting feels like.



But if my brain while tripping can take the visual aspect of watching an ice cube melt for instance and turn the visual into an actual physical feeling then his "sight" experience could be his other senses acting on/with the visual parts of his brain... crossing signals.







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Edited by Mushroom_J (12/19/14 03:08 AM)



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Very interesting thread, it would be even better if he could trip a few times and remember the experiences and then get his vision back and then be able to tell us what exactly it is that he experienced and possibly "saw".



That would be close to ideal imo and I'd be extremely interested in what exactly it was which he experienced.





I am colour blind, although it's just hard for me to tell apart shades of certain colours. I trip and I have not noticed a difference yet.

I do struggle with visuals but will do a higher dose sometime soon.



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M y T r a d e L i s t - C l i c k M E ! ! [ U p d a t e d : 0 2 / 0 5 / 2 0 1 5 ]









" I t ' s a l l i n y o u r h e a d "

" H a s t e m a k e s w a s t e ! "



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Wow. He probably got some closed eye visuals that were spectacular enough to make even me sob, let alone someone who's always been blind. His visual cortex being intact is probably important here, he may not have had those visuals if not for that.



I feel eternally happy for him. Wow.



Best thread I've seen on the shroomery since..possibly ever.



Just fucking awesome man



--------------------

On the ground you lay, with your dogs you pray, at a neon hieroglyph sky you gaze



Hugging your mind, praying to survive, feeling the love of the hieroglyphs in the sky

We all need more love, and mainly less hate

Hate is the blind that covers the heart's eye

That makes the heart's eye cry

Locked deep away in the skies of our minds



It's all in the mind



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I would go with body, space and music metaphors with a blind person who has just had an outrageous dmt extravaganza delight.



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Quote:

PsyCLown89 said:

Very interesting thread, it would be even better if he could trip a few times and remember the experiences and then get his vision back and then be able to tell us what exactly it is that he experienced and possibly "saw".



That would be close to ideal imo and I'd be extremely interested in what exactly it was which he experienced.





I am colour blind, although it's just hard for me to tell apart shades of certain colours. I trip and I have not noticed a difference yet.

I do struggle with visuals but will do a higher dose sometime soon.









Yea though I have never done DMT I understand the frustration of waking up with fleeting memories of dreams, the memory of having coins in hand, waking up and they are gone.



I've read a lot of reports, including Terence McKenna/Joe Rogan's; the first time is alwase more confusing that the 10th time, do more, more often.



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https://discord.gg/vEVXD4h



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he just has a sticky 'M' key.



--------------------

An old man and his grandson are sitting by the fire outside the tepee, wrapped in furs and gazing into the leaping flames. High on a snowy ridge, a wolf howls at the moon and another answers from far away. Soon after, the old man removes the pipe from his mouth.



‘Grandson,’ he says. ‘There are two wolves inside you. One is white and the other is black.’

‘What are they doing there, Grandfather?’ asks the wide-eyed boy.

‘They are fighting each other,’ says the old man.

The boy considers this, then asks, ‘Why are they white and black?’

‘The white one is your love, your peace and your truth. The black one is your fear, your anger and your lies.’



The fire crackles and sparks flare in the night. The wolf on the ridge howls again and the old man puffs contentedly on his pipe. Finally, the boy says, ‘Which one will win, Grandfather?’



‘Ah,’ says the old man, removing the pipe once more. ‘The one that wins is the one that you feed.’



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Its not alwase the 'M' key though.

Other posts it was 'N', 'R' and I think there was a post missing a slew of 'T's.

I'm not trippin though, it was just an observation.



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https://discord.gg/vEVXD4h



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HippieFeet







Registered: 10/14/11

Posts: 50

Loc: The other realm

Last seen: 4 years, 11 months Psychedelic JesusRegistered: 10/14/11Loc: The other realmLast seen: 4 years, 11 months Re: I got someone who was blind from birth to smoke DMT!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: Wormi]

#20998093 - 12/19/14 10:01 AM (5 years, 8 months ago) Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply



This is fucking wild! I have thought about the implications of this situation for years. I have smoked DMT...not sure how many times over the last 5 years and still have trouble putting it into words and i write, alot!

Its pretty well documented in science literature and just by parents of blind children who have explained there experiences that they can see basic shapes and possibly 3D images in there dreams through knowledge of touch so its possible he could have taken as much a visual journey through the fractal tunnel as we do (colours being questionable)

That said i'm wondering about colour myself as I and others i have sent into hyperspace have seen colours we have never seen before and thus cant describe. Of course we have some knowledge of colours and its less a stretch for us to see unusual and new colours than for someone who doesn't have a concept of basic colours but possible; what was said for you to guess he may be seeing different shades of a single colour ?



I have actually had one DMT trip myself that was devoid of colour and im wondering how close that could be to what your friend may have seen. I remember it being much like a large warping chess board rather than the normal mandala style tunnels.



All of this i guess also depends of if he "broke through" or not. If he did that could have been a whole new experience than we know; a wildly visual experience now based more prominently on other senses ?



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I live in a place where time doesn't exist,

colours taste like fruit and sound drips down the walls.

You can hear the light shining down upon you

and smell every touch;

where magic is reality and

reality is merely but a figment of the conscious dream.

Wont you come and visit ?



Edited by HippieFeet (12/19/14 10:06 AM)



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I made the same observation; I only saw M missing.



I didnt go back to check. I'll be looking back to this thread for more development, OP.



thanks!



--------------------

An old man and his grandson are sitting by the fire outside the tepee, wrapped in furs and gazing into the leaping flames. High on a snowy ridge, a wolf howls at the moon and another answers from far away. Soon after, the old man removes the pipe from his mouth.



‘Grandson,’ he says. ‘There are two wolves inside you. One is white and the other is black.’

‘What are they doing there, Grandfather?’ asks the wide-eyed boy.

‘They are fighting each other,’ says the old man.

The boy considers this, then asks, ‘Why are they white and black?’

‘The white one is your love, your peace and your truth. The black one is your fear, your anger and your lies.’



The fire crackles and sparks flare in the night. The wolf on the ridge howls again and the old man puffs contentedly on his pipe. Finally, the boy says, ‘Which one will win, Grandfather?’



‘Ah,’ says the old man, removing the pipe once more. ‘The one that wins is the one that you feed.’



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OP, are you reading out some of our posts to your friend? I think it might interest him to hear what we are thinking about from our point of view. Pun intended.



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Blind man sees again with bionic eye implant



http://themindunleashed.org/2014 /10/blind-man-sees-33-years-thank s-bionic-eye-implant.html



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i applaud you!



ive wondered for a while what would happen if a blind person takes a psychedelic



youve done a great service!



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this is the coolest thread I've read in a long time



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Signature this, ho



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I would imagine being blind from birth he would have to have some mental map in his head of what's around him yea? If you ask him what a cube is perhaps he can pull up a mental image of a cubes shape from memory of touch and feel



I would think maybe someone who is blind from birth actually sees alot more in thier head than we think, definitly not darkness like someone who loses thier sight would see.

I just dont think words exist to describe it.. like if you saw a new color, not a shade of a color but a new color that didnt exist before



When you close your eyes and see blackness, if I lost my eyes would I see blackness?.. would me losing my sight feel like walking around in a dark room?



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Amateur Mycologists United

AMU Q&A



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I would imagine being blind from birth he would have to have some mental map in his head of what's around him yea? If you ask him what a cube is perhaps he can pull up a mental image of a cubes shape from memory of touch and feel



I would think maybe someone who is blind from birth actually sees alot more in thier head than we think, definitly not darkness like someone who loses thier sight would see.

I just dont think words exist to describe it.. like if you saw a new color, not a shade of a color but a new color that didnt exist before



I bet his mental map of the world and the places he has been is amazing.





We think that someone who has no eyes is really missing out but it not be so much, we might be missing out by being able to see



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Amateur Mycologists United

AMU Q&A



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That was incredible. Thanks for sharing.



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Money can’t buy you love, yea that’s true..

But money can buy you dope so that’s cool.



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I feel like its completely impossible for him to have any visuals outside of colors due to the fact that he's seen absolutely nothing like how can you visualise without having seen anything.. He'd have to be phychic to Invision even the simplistic of pattern.. If you ask me, anything he could've saw would probably have been unlocked data set in his survival genes.. Like cats giving birth know to lick the babies so they can breath.. There is basic genetic knowledge in all humans He could've easily tapped into imagery his past ancestors kept who knows & that's if he didn't just see blank colors fading in & out



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Quote:

mushpunx said:

We think that someone who has no eyes is really missing out but it not be so much, we might be missing out by being able to see







Ou lol that's deep ha makes u think



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I got a lot of deep shit to say on this topic; but instead I'll just say this sounds like the best X-Men origin story ever.



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If his brain is functional in the area that processes visual information, I don't get why it's so shocking to you guys that he received visual information from his trip.



All visual information doesn't necessarily come from the eyeballs-- that isn't a revolutionary fact. To be more specific-- it's your BRAIN that see's, not your eyes. Does everything look upside down to you? No?

But the light that enters your eyes is flipped upside down by the lenses, so you see that the brain re-processes that information and flips it back around internally.



I've had heavy "visual" trips where what I was "seeing" was absolutely disconnected from anything my eyes were seeing.



I know it because I was opening and closing my eyes (once I remembered I had them) and it made no difference to what I perceived.



I remember geometric fractal spirals and morphing shapes.



Sounds exactly like what your buddy saw.



If the brain processing area is working, and only his external inputs are broken, then it's not surprising at all that a power surge for that area of the brain (which is the way I think of DMT) would cause static feedback in the processor.



I love the story OP-- and I hope your friend found (and continues to find) the experience meaningful.



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I am certain of nothing but the holiness of the Heart's affections and the truth of Imagination-- John Keats



I trade Trichocereus seeds for interesting Spore prints!



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I guess what Im wondering, is without light there is no color. If you have no sight and never saw light, how would a trip have you visual color?



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Amateur Mycologists United

AMU Q&A



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That's crazy, you should give him some paints and tell him to try to recreate what he saw just to see what he comes up with.



Quote:

mushpunx said:

I guess what Im wondering, is without light there is no color. If you have no sight and never saw light, how would a trip have you visual color?







When I've used shrooms I could close my eyes and see patterns of color moving around unlike anything I had seen before so they probably weren't influenced by my ability to see. It might be something along this line with his brain "generating" color (especially with something as powerful as DMT) despite his inability to see.



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Maybe its our brain itself that creates color?



Color might be an invention that our brain assigns to the different spectrums of light reflecting off objects to help us perceive the world.



Maybe it isn't that color exists and our brain developed to receive it,



Maybe only light exists and our brain invented the spectrum of color to differentiate the way light reflects off objects?



Could be the other way around. Brain came first in this world and color came second



So thats how color can exist in the brain completely independent of light, we might just be assuming the only way you can imagine a color is if you've seen it before



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Amateur Mycologists United

AMU Q&A



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What an incredible experience to have had. Do you think he broke through? What if he saw guides? The description would be beyond me as you have stated about clarifying to him if that was what seeing was. But what is seeing? Is it what we see? Is it what clouds our vision? So much to learn.



Glad that your friend had a great time



Thanks for sharing



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Amazing report! Thanks for sharing



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"Cosmic Love is absolutelely ruthless and highly indifferent:

it teaches its lessons whether you like/dislike them or not."



John C. Lily







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Where the hell is the OP?



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https://discord.gg/vEVXD4h



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This is very interesting data. very cool and well done and well written experience..



Im going to try and type this but man my hands are tired form talking about "the thing" in the other thread so bear with me and im not going to fix an errors because fuck it i just dont feel like it, I got a smoke going a coffee next to me and im thinking about the resin in the next room.. fuck it, brb im getting the resin..



ok great news as I stood up I realized the resin was like 3 feet away on my dresser.. so Im waiting for that to kick in now..



here the story goes.. i have the entire story recorded on audio from the person of its source, and will share with you if interested in the near future. and i hope anyone who has a story like this will share with me because i am building a repetoir of like stories for the psychedelicvisionary.com page i am working on..

Ill call my friend xmas in this story because of the time were in now..



xmas, has had a lot of experience admintering dmt to friends and seekers alike,. giving over 100 people a breakthrough on his couch in his bedroom, great and bizarre things were in the air.



one night xmas was invited to a party where some friends were. Appon arrival he mentioned to one of his friend he had brought along some of the mysrterious substance and wondered if there was a safe place and anyone interested in exploring hyperspace.. the guy lit right up.. There was a friend such as this present at the party.. We'll call person of interest GUY.. friends explained GUY is here tonight.. guy hasnt walked in over 7 years, he is a parapeligic from a car accident years and years ago and the friend speaking was his caretaker.. GUY had heard of the experience and was ready to make the journey.. xmas met with guy and fouind he was sincere in his posisition and plans began to form to find a safe place to move guy and his wheelchair to begin the procedure.



It was finally decided by friends and guy that the safest place would be the handicap van that guy came in as it has a lift for the wheel chair and it is a familiar place for guy to enjoy the experience..



All loaded up in the van and dmt all loaded into a pipe the procedure began. guy ingested 3 to 4 tokes of the yellowish crystal and very quickly began to feel the effects.. after a few moments.. something bizarrwe happened.. guy began to twitch and his legs in a twitching motion began to kick, the friends all jumped and started to freak out.. it kept happening he keptkicking.. they were like what have you done xmas, what is going on?? xmas had no idea.



a few more moments and guy settled down his legs relaxed againa and he had a massive smile on his face.. a few minutes go by and he is boggled barely able to speak.. he ffinally says the entire time he felt like he could just stand up and walk.. the friends all agreed to not repreys caretakers andthe whole group to this day years later, is i astonished dismay.



on this evening a man who had not moved his legs in over 7 years not even a milimeter , ingested a breakthrough dose of dmt and began to kick his legs..



now im no scholor but this sounds like dmt has the potential to induce vision in the blind and restore motion to the lame or parapeligic, maybe we will never know, but maybe we as scientists of our own life should put this data together in a precise way and share it with the guys who actually can study shit like this.. these are important finds and some of the most important advances in thought and technology happen in peoples garages.. so keep this in mind and thanks for listening while i babble on.. be well my friends



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"SAY SOMETHING, DO SOMETHING.. MAKE A DIFFERENCE"



“There is a transcendental dimension beyond language... It's just hard as hell to talk about!” ― Terence McKenna



JwiZard TraDe LiSt



TIPS on TRIPS



Psychedlic Visionary - Info on Trance, Shamanism, Visionary Art, Psychedelics and Spirit



EXTREME VAPORIZERS



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Dudeeee I got the feels so hard.



That's an awesome story



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harryskinflap







Registered: 11/14/14

Posts: 613

Loc: a nice place

Last seen: 3 years, 7 months A Nut SackRegistered: 11/14/14Loc: a nice placeLast seen: 3 years, 7 months Re: I got someone who was blind from birth to smoke DMT!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: Jake.Wizard27] 1

#21007180 - 12/21/14 12:24 PM (5 years, 8 months ago) Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply



teary eyed for sure reading that. Sounds very frustrating trying to understand what he "saw" I would imagine it was like having your eyes closed for a normal person. But assuming he has only seen blank black his whole life, this must have been amazing. Just make sure he knows how long mushies last and how it effects you emotionally.



I would have been crying along with him, must have been a special moment.



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mushpunx said:

Maybe its our brain itself that creates color?



Color might be an invention that our brain assigns to the different spectrums of light reflecting off objects to help us perceive the world.



Maybe it isn't that color exists and our brain developed to receive it,



Maybe only light exists and our brain invented the spectrum of color to differentiate the way light reflects off objects?



Could be the other way around. Brain came first in this world and color came second



So thats how color can exist in the brain completely independent of light, we might just be assuming the only way you can imagine a color is if you've seen it before







Exactly-- everything that happens in the brain is electrical when boiled down to the lowest common denominator-- your brain is the receiver, your eyes/ears/etc... are just the inputs.



There is no such "thing" as color.

"Red" is just one of infinite frequencies of electromagnetic waves that propagate at a certain wavelength. Our eye sensors are programmed to a very small section of the spectrum that we call "visible" light-- but there are infinite levels both higher and lower along that spectrum that they are not tuned to. That doesn't mean they aren't all saturating us at all times-- and who's to say that your friend didn't pick up on some frequency that he tuned to that we don't because of our brains being accustomed to the normal range of spectrum.





If you were to overcharge the brain receiver system (which I believe DMT and other substances do) and/or/also allow enhanced communication between different regions of the brain (which numerous scientific studies have proven that psychedelics do) then it becomes less mysterious and begins to explain why these signals can become perceptible by those with malfunctioning inputs.



The often-used analogy of the "Third Eye" isn't really metaphorical-- it's real.



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Wow that is incredible! Glad to hear you helped a friend out finally "see" something in his life.



DMT is one helluva substance.







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coAsTal said:

Quote:

mushpunx said:

Maybe its our brain itself that creates color?



Color might be an invention that our brain assigns to the different spectrums of light reflecting off objects to help us perceive the world.



Maybe it isn't that color exists and our brain developed to receive it,



Maybe only light exists and our brain invented the spectrum of color to differentiate the way light reflects off objects?



Could be the other way around. Brain came first in this world and color came second



So thats how color can exist in the brain completely independent of light, we might just be assuming the only way you can imagine a color is if you've seen it before







Exactly-- everything that happens in the brain is electrical when boiled down to the lowest common denominator-- your brain is the receiver, your eyes/ears/etc... are just the inputs.



There is no such "thing" as color.

"Red" is just one of infinite frequencies of electromagnetic waves that propagate at a certain wavelength. Our eye sensors are programmed to a very small section of the spectrum that we call "visible" light-- but there are infinite levels both higher and lower along that spectrum that they are not tuned to. That doesn't mean they aren't all saturating us at all times-- and who's to say that your friend didn't pick up on some frequency that he tuned to that we don't because of our brains being accustomed to the normal range of spectrum.





If you were to overcharge the brain receiver system (which I believe DMT and other substances do) and/or/also allow enhanced communication between different regions of the brain (which numerous scientific studies have proven that psychedelics do) then it becomes less mysterious and begins to explain why these signals can become perceptible by those with malfunctioning inputs.



The often-used analogy of the "Third Eye" isn't really metaphorical-- it's real.











Its so crazy that we essentially recieve most of our information about the world by tuning in to recieve frequencies and vibrations, some of our info comes from chemicals..I dont really understand the sense of touch. But it doesn't seem so far fetched that there might be information just floating around out there for us to tune into some other way.



Fascinating feild of study sensory input id!



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Look up phantom limbs - that'll put the sense of touch into the context of our discussion



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Give him a pencil and paper and tell him to draw what he saw. Maybe he will draw the pond......



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coAsTal said:

Look up phantom limbs - that'll put the sense of touch into the context of our discussion









Heh dude I know all about that man Im missing a couple fingers and my thumb. Fireworks accident.



They shouldn't hurt but they do, sooooooo weird!



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Receiver =/= Inputs







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Fascinating stuff, thank you for sharing OP



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This is Effen amazing, i'm speechless...



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He can describe what he saw using analogous senses. Colors are strongly felt, red is universally associated with energy, heat, passion, etc., though he might be equally overwhelmed by all of them. Touch can describe patterns (fuzzy, rough, sharp, symmetrical) and intensity. Could he use objects like beads and pipe cleaners to reconstruct it?



I wonder about the potential for HPPD and what that would be like for him. Cannabis often intensifies it.



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Ikr op might of just lied about the whole thing cuz he was bored and wanted attention.. He probly thought it up like wow that'd be incredible story & decided to share it based on his excitement of "what if that happened" & to see what others would say



Edited by backyardmagic (12/22/14 11:40 AM)



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backyardmagic said:

Ikr op might of just lied about the whole thing cuz he was bored and wanted attention.. He probly thought it up like wow that'd be incredible story & decided to share it based on his excitement of "what if that happened" & to see what others would say









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Beautiful story wow. Your questions kind of all depend on his thoughts, and I am not sure I can even relate. Intense.



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wow that's fucking amazing! if he did trip then he did see but he wasn't seeing the physical reality



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chicken? CHE CAN SUCK THIS



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My niece teaches at a School for the Blind...she teaches blind/ deaf/ dumb kids. I will see her in a couple days and ask her thoughts on this.



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Albert Einstein



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Have hours of video to edit. Mostly just us convorsatingon a porch. but still been an interesting week so far. The next two days will be busy as shit for me as i cook and prepare for the highly (non) anticipated christmas return of the in-laws. After we get through with christmas gonna try and edit the babbling into some form of coherancy.





I would imagine im not only one who fucking hates video editing.



And take from it what you want, doing this for my own curiosity and because i think he could benefit from the psychedelic experience. weather or not some of you think this is a fake story means nothing to me xD





same as my respose to someone elling me DMT is just colorful hallucniaions cause by the hijacking of your visual cortex.



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Current grow http://www.shroomery.org/forums/ showflat.php/Number/20874344



"We are the subjective experiences of a singular self that has set its own being here to experience itself on a collective basis, this state is the dream, and the dream is eternity, and thus, reality"

~Makes sense while im high



"You and I are all as much continuous with the physical universe as a wave is continuous with the ocean. The ocean waves, and the universe peoples. What you are doing, is the same thing the entire universe is doing in the place you call here and now, you are something the whole universe is doing, in the same way a single wave is what the entire ocean is doing."



~Alan Watts



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SleepyE said:

Quote:

thatoneguy1001 said:





And take from it what you want, doing this for my own curiosity and because i think he could benefit from the psychedelic experience. weather or not some of you think this is a fake story means nothing to me xD





same as my respose to someone elling me DMT is just colorful hallucniaions cause by the hijacking of your visual cortex.





prove the bastards wrong then







Oh im more than planning on recieving that lil ego booster lol. however counter productive it is to the essage of the psychedelics. Doing it out of my own curiosity and opportunism...OBviously i think he would benifit from the experiences they offer, bu i would be lying if i said i was doing it ONLY to benefit him, as much as i feel like it would.



still keep getting tha frozen smile stuck to my face...starting to hurt





And i do apologizze for not constantly reading and updating myself on my own thread with something this intense, anyone with a large family knows how much of a BITCH this time of year can be on time



On another not the expected delivery date of my bundleweed is christmas eve (tomorrow) gonna try for a repeat the day after christmas.



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Current grow http://www.shroomery.org/forums/ showflat.php/Number/20874344



"We are the subjective experiences of a singular self that has set its own being here to experience itself on a collective basis, this state is the dream, and the dream is eternity, and thus, reality"

~Makes sense while im high



"You and I are all as much continuous with the physical universe as a wave is continuous with the ocean. The ocean waves, and the universe peoples. What you are doing, is the same thing the entire universe is doing in the place you call here and now, you are something the whole universe is doing, in the same way a single wave is what the entire ocean is doing."



~Alan Watts



Edited by thatoneguy1001 (12/23/14 04:00 PM)



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psilocybinjunkie said:

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thatoneguy1001 said:

This was abut 10 hours ago....hes still asking me if that is what seeing is....



How do i respond to that.....







Be honest and tell him that's not how seeing is unless you are on psychedelics and even then we have the same kind of Closed eye visuals. Vision on psychedelics isn't normal vision be sure to tell him that. What I see on a trip and what you see on a trip is never like what we see 100% sober, so the truth is what he wants and needs to know. Tell him you were glad he was able to enjoy the experience the same basic way we were and that's it's very similar experiences for us both!! You should also tell him many trippers do trips in total darkness as i'm sure he'll instantly be able to relate to that and why people enjoy it



Sounds like he had a very good time, but i'm sure he'd be more upset about his blindness situation if you led him to believe that we're all feeling and seeing awesome shit like that non stop 24/7 when sober lol, which just isn't true. It wouldn't be good for him to hear and think that kind of psychedelic experience is the day to day vision we experience.. The truth is it's an amazing psychedelic and profound experience for us as well him alike. Our minds help us create the imagery with help from the substances.



This is a nice good cheery story, 5 shrooms to you sir







What if the distortion of the psychadelic nature of site for him stimulates higher consciousness?



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baltimark said:

My niece teaches at a School for the Blind...she teaches blind/ deaf/ dumb kids. I will see her in a couple days and ask her thoughts on this.





Did she teach the deaf, dumb, and blind kid from The Who's song "Pinball Wizard," who sure played a mean pinball?



..bad joke perhaps.



In all seriousness though, I've always wondered about giving blind people psychedelics. This story was awesome... how he was sobbing saying it was beautiful. You did a good thing op



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this. this made me happy even tho i dont know you or your buddy.

great thread



i had been wondering about psychedelics and blind people, glad to see someone was able to put it to the test AND got good results



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Patterns can be seen by someone who has not seen them.. With basic shape recognition you could feel a pattern and understand its repitition.. Colours are created in the mind although light frequencies influence them.. Sometimes i meditate and stare at the sun with my eyes closed and watch the colours and hues change through every spectrum.. Is the sun changing colour? I dont think so.. My mind changes yhe colour.. I know what its like to see with my third eye and the colours/shapes are not bound to the third dimension.. This is all personal belief..



Very interesting research if you would call it that..



Im interested to hear more..



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Holy... Shit...



I think about this like EVERY week. A couple times a week.

Would a blind person see colors and things if given DMT.



Then I began to wonder WHAT they'd see.



Can he see ANY blurs of light at all? Like even ALL white or all grey? Or can he just not even tell if a light is on in the room? (when sober)



I have like a million questions.

You performed a test I wish I could have done myself or been there to see.

I've seen places on DMT that I've never seen before in person.

Like bazaar looking car port structures outside of a building that looks very asian.



Maybe... He could be "seeing" if his mind is actually making STRUCTURES and solid objects.

There's trips where all I see is colors and strange patterns.

But there's also trips where I see objects, places, insides of houses, or even see myself lying naked on the couch on DMT lol.



Edited by topherchris (01/19/15 11:36 AM)



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Definitely worth the read.



I would love to see if someone deaf could possibly hear certain sounds while under the influence of certain alkaloids.



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What is dipt.



I don't see why Spice would be inactive to someone who is deaf but active to a blind person.



I have heard some of the most mind boggling sounds imaginable and incomprehensible.



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Understanding 100% of anything is impossible. That’s why we spend all our lives trying to understand the thinking of others. That’s what makes life so interesting.



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Interesting SleepyE



I have never heard of that.



But already vary interested.







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Understanding 100% of anything is impossible. That’s why we spend all our lives trying to understand the thinking of others. That’s what makes life so interesting.



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That is all.



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Drumdude27 said:

Don't make me get the FemNazis involved guys.



420th post. No regrets. Only joy.



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Gold Jesus Feet said:

What is dipt.



I don't see why Spice would be inactive to someone who is deaf but active to a blind person.



I have heard some of the most mind boggling sounds imaginable and incomprehensible.





As have I, and I've made some of the strangest sounds I have ever made (recorded) while under DMT.



But I don't hear anything when I just get visuals.



If I aim for breaking through, 200mg hits, that's where the extreme sounds come into play. Sometimes they'll be clashing sounds that hurt my ears, like ceramic breaking... but when the trips over - my room couldn't possibly be any quieter, even with a fan on it'll seem silent.



If someone’s deaf, you're going to have to explain to them that they probably won't be able to move AT ALL, and they're going to see some serious shit, in order for them to start hearing stuff.



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200mg sounds immaculate.



I have vaporized 27mg and experienced some of the most amazing and horrifying things imaginable.



I couldn't possibly imagine 200mg.



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Understanding 100% of anything is impossible. That’s why we spend all our lives trying to understand the thinking of others. That’s what makes life so interesting.



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Yea 200mg is quite a large amount. What a thread, I have been wondering this same question for a long time. I teared up a little reading his experience, sounds like you made his life a little better. great read



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Arenis





Posts: 153

Last seen: 4 years, 2 months StrangerLast seen: 4 years, 2 months Re: I got someone who was blind from birth to smoke DMT!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: JustinCase]

#21225370 - 02/04/15 12:05 PM (5 years, 7 months ago) Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply



To start of you are scum. Letting him do 3 big rips and hold it? Alright i would have loved to see your reaction if he started to have an alergic reaction and his lungs stopped working, what a nice experiment it would have been huh?



Now about results, im happy for him. What he must have seen is fractals ( because they are mind imagery) and/or actual colors like you start getting with eyes closed during acid come up. Still how could he talk about beuty when he has no clue what it is?



nothing personal but this topic sounds fictional.



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Anyone with experience in psychiatry please pm me if you have some spare time.



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Quote:

Arenis said:

To start of you are scum. Letting him do 3 big rips and hold it? Alright i would have loved to see your reaction if he started to have an alergic reaction and his lungs stopped working, what a nice experiment it would have been huh?

















I'm having a hard time seeing how this dude is "scum" because he provided someone with their first dmt experience? It's not like he dosed the dude, or forced him into it....he even explained what it was and why he wanted him to do it.





I know people should take pre-cautions in regards to potential allergic reactions with things like RCs, and excuse my ignorance, but is it even possible for someone to be allergic to an endogenous ligand like dmt?











-OM





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Arenis said:

To start of you are scum. Letting him do 3 big rips and hold it? Alright i would have loved to see your reaction if he started to have an alergic reaction and his lungs stopped working, what a nice experiment it would have been huh?



Now about results, im happy for him. What he must have seen is fractals ( because they are mind imagery) and/or actual colors like you start getting with eyes closed during acid come up. Still how could he talk about beuty when he has no clue what it is?



nothing personal but this topic sounds fictional.







Why don't you go ******** yourself you ****** ***** ***************





You are the worst kind of person.. YOU are scum.. Pawn scum.



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i sometimes wish I was a wormy, wiggling all in the cold dirt...tickle tackle pickle dickle think a mackshift thought of broken words broken gears and words of conundrums..I'm not a weiner doctor so take that shit to dr. Gonz free boob inplant consultations.. Photo required



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If the guy actually saw color then this could be a real breakthrough for the blind. Did he see color?



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preschooler said:

If the guy actually saw color then this could be a real breakthrough for the blind. Did he see color?







EXACTLY. How does a blind person describe color? When they have nothing to base their explanations on?



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beat me to it.



Lol try explaining purple to someone.. It's impossible without using references to other objects



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**need a check up?** **im a Doctor**



i sometimes wish I was a wormy, wiggling all in the cold dirt...tickle tackle pickle dickle think a mackshift thought of broken words broken gears and words of conundrums..I'm not a weiner doctor so take that shit to dr. Gonz free boob inplant consultations.. Photo required



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IF SOMEONE CAN DESCRIBE THE COLOR PURPLE WE'LL ALL GIVE YOU 5 SHROOM RATINGS



There are some smart shroom heads out there, maybe it's possible? Have faith brothas



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That's a wonderful question!



My dmt breakthroughs always had color but were not of this world. Shapes patterns constantly shifting and changing colors but ive seen color and can compare.



Like you said if I had nothing to compare it to then I wouldn't know what it was.



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oprah, whoopie and danny glover make a really depressing movie where harpo gets his ass beat idk



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He'd understand variation in saturation and hue; darkness and light; perhaps the emotions each color evokes; intensity, transition, borders, and contrast. He'd have none of our shared associations with color to relate, but he could still describe sight.



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SomeGuyX said:

IF SOMEONE CAN DESCRIBE THE COLOR PURPLE WE'LL ALL GIVE YOU 5 SHROOM RATINGS



There are some smart shroom heads out there, maybe it's possible? Have faith brothas







http://www.philosophy-index.com/ jackson/marys-room/



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drege





Registered: 11/04/14

Posts: 1,553

Last seen: 15 days, 15 minutes This space for leaseRegistered: 11/04/14Last seen: 15 days, 15 minutes Re: I got someone who was blind from birth to smoke DMT!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: gamesguru] 1

#21228349 - 02/04/15 11:01 PM (5 years, 7 months ago) Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply



Purple is the feeling of realizing you came on your keyboard and 2 or more keys no longer work.

Oh this isn't the pub, uhh never mind purple is the smell of fresh cut grass and 2cycle oil mixed gasoline.



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I know, old thread, but I want to weigh in. I think the question of whether this person experienced vision is actually quite simple to determine.



Just ask them if what they experienced corresponded to the four senses they usually have available to them, or if they experienced something which is not captured by these four senses. If they did, either it means they experienced vision, or some sensory perception not encapsulated within the five senses we usually consider. DMT users don't seem to report sixth senses, so it would probably be vision.



This doesn't seem that complicated to me.



Sorry if somebody already mentioned this idea, I didn't read through all the pages.



Edited by Space Monkey (04/15/16 05:41 AM)



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I thought about this in the past, good to see you help your friend out this way. Now, not all the dmt,lsd,shrooms experiences are related to the 5 physical senses we have or we use for this material plane- Im sure he saw things, he didn't need his 2 eyes to see those "beautiful" things he is trying to describe, he saw these things with his Ajna Chakra (third eye).



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I don't know for sure but I can speculate.



The brain receptors responsible for translating information from our sensory organs are the same ones targeted by psychedelics. Since this man's eyes are damaged, not his brain, he still probably has all the proper wiring to TRANSLATE visual sensory information - aka if someone were to hook up a pair of working eyeballs to the right nerves it would just work.



Psychedelics bind to these receptors and essentially force false information to be translated, like static on a TV screen. From there, our brain tries to process that info based on what we've seen/experienced in our life and form something recognizable out of it.



Because of this, I imagine that this man did indeed see a kaleidoscopic array of colors..possibly shapes and various forms even. However, I think since he wouldn't have any visual cues to correlate them to, that the ability to compare it to things experienced in life is absent.



Therefore I speculate he did 'see', and that psychedelics can allow a blind person whose brain isn't damaged to experience visual stimuli.



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SleepyE said:

why dont people blind from birth see while dreaming then?







For the same reason you can't hear a radio station without a radio.



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SleepyE said:

why dont people blind from birth see while dreaming then?







Awesome thread, now, answers and questions:



Because subcounscious is what creates the dream for you, and the subcounscious of blind, not having experience with seeing, is very unlikely to use them.



The again, there is quite a lot of evidence suggesting we inherit even memory of events from our ancestors, which would suggest the blind should be able to dream visuals...I just think the brain is pragmatic enough not to do this when it has no "real" counscious sensory input whatsoever.



Now, when you measure EEG, there is some signal we call alfa, beta, delta waves etc. Nobody really knows what this is, we just know how the image "should" look and we also know that many psychedelics alter this signal quite significantly. So, my guess would be, a blind childs brain would learn to just ignore this signal since its only hum, but when you ingest a substance, there is a "new" quality to the signal which the brain has to interpret somehow - which we can call visuals. Is it really seeing? That is a metaphysical question...it happens to me regularly that I experience something not having words for it, so perhaps we have much more senses...



And lastly, to those of you basically saying eye is only an electromagnetic receptor, I learned recently that that is not entirely true. For example retina already registers movement (derives light intensity in time) and sends the signal as such. You could say eye is pretty smart on its own



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Quote:

Magick said:





Psychedelics bind to these receptors and essentially force false information to be translated, like static on a TV screen. From there, our brain tries to process that info based on what we've seen/experienced in our life and form something recognizable out of it.









ahh, if only the explanation was this neat and tidy, unfortunately this visionary state habitually evoking meaningful archetypes that carl jung has theorized like the jester/trickster/clown makes what is happening more complex than that, imo.



also i find it kind of coincidental that the metaphor used to explain psychedelic visions as something stemming from our minds visual pareidolia when examining noise is the same concept involved in Electronic Voice Phenomenon where they attempt to receive signals from white noise static, of course this is brushed off as pseudo science be an auditory pareidolia effect. In both instances you have people wanting to believe they are communicating with life from the beyond or receiving information previously unknown.



But the psychedelic experience is clearly structured and trying to convey meaning through archetype referencing and metaphors and the visions have mastered structural aesthetics that surpasses normal reality by a long shot.



And yes i have evidence, im building a successful evidence base for my assertions. I have a youtube channel dedicated to this exploration and am getting many reports of people saying they experienced a clown or jester on DMT, usually in a checkered background.



one viewer who reported it coincidentally made a digital painting of his jester experience which is below







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My Drawingzz

Draw DMT!



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Edited by SleepyE (04/29/16 03:39 AM)



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tkmaxin





Posts: 1

Last seen: 10 months, 13 days StrangerLast seen: 10 months, 13 days Re: I got someone who was blind from birth to smoke DMT!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [Re: Icon]

#23517620 - 08/07/16 02:39 AM (4 years, 1 month ago) Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply



Amazing story. Definitely more studies to be done!



Just in to a response to your post bloomer: My friend has really bad red/green (think this is pretty standard form of colour blindness) and on DMT this totally goes away for him and he doesn't feel he experiences it at all. Instead of greens and reds being all muddy and brown they are restored to full brightness. It blew his mind!



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Quote:

tkmaxin said:

Amazing story. Definitely more studies to be done!



Just in to a response to your post bloomer: My friend has really bad red/green (think this is pretty standard form of colour blindness) and on DMT this totally goes away for him and he doesn't feel he experiences it at all. Instead of greens and reds being all muddy and brown they are restored to full brightness. It blew his mind!





Wow, very interesting. Thanks for sharing! I still haven't had the chance to introduce it to my colorblind friend. Excited to tho



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I love that picture of the jester! real interesting post!!! I always wondered what it was like for blind and/or color blind when they trip on diff psychs.



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Wow, thats amazing. Thank you for sharing!!!



My question is: If he could turn back time, would he do it again?



Realizing that your reality is wack can really bother you in the long run. I remember after my first trip I almost wished I hadnt done it and I could go back to my simple little ignorant life before psychedelics lol.



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Maybe he would have better luck trying to describe it to another blind person? They would have more relate-able language I would assume.



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Quote:

thatoneguy1001 said:

Video taping the experience and the conversation would have been the best way to go about it.



Ive already ordered some bundleweed to do an extraction on and were gonna go in together, video taped, and hes going to transcribe it to the best of his ability on his keyboard when he gets home.



Ill post a copy of it here.



Is there a video hosting method on shroomery? a little hesitant to uplaod out schedule 1 activity to something like youtube



I realise i could have done this is a WAY better, ore manageable, easier to explain way, but the way it worked out he came upspur of the oent last night because he finally had enough gas money to pay his sister to bring him, i had a lil dmt left in the fridge and this morning took the opportunity to figure soething out i have CONSTANTLY wondered about since i discovered psychedelics, but could not find almost ANY consistent info on. THe dots lined up and i went with it relatively unprepared, i had wanted to do this for a while and had worked out basically how i wanted to do it, but still turned out to be spur of the oment



And i am DAMN SURE he will be wanting to go back in, and ill be going with him, with far more preparation, with a camera and his weird fucked up keyboard lol



and rotating (in a manner not referring to him) lines laid on top of each other, but not really lines, more than that, and what sounds like descriptions of different shades of the same colors. thats about where we are at right now, i know he percieved something visual, it was definately profound, i just want to figure out if its the SAME experience, even if your blind from birth, which is proving hard to do with the little info we have



I ean, having never had any experiences of vision, if the DMT experience is the SAME perception wise for them as us, yet never having had any experience of vision,





i feel like the implication of that prove something i too dull to understand











I'm almost positive this is what he saw. It just jumped out to me while reading it and it would make perfect sense. Thoughts?



http://www.crystalinks.com/merka bah.html



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