Notícies Diumenge 02.02.2014 23:35

Felipe González warns President Mas 'If this continues, Spanish nationalism will awaken'

In a face-to-face debate between the Catalan President and the former Spanish president on the Salvados TV show

The Catalan President, Artur Mas, and the former Spanish socialist president Felipe González were the protagonists in a face to face debate on one of the Sexta tv channel's top programs, 'Salvados', directed and presented by journalist Jordi Évole. During the conversation, González repeated that there was no path toward self-determination for Catalans: 'The path to the conquering self-determination is non-existent. If you want to have the right to decide, so do I,' he said, adding a rather ominous warning that if things continues like this, 'Spanish nationalism will awaken'.

Here are some fragments from the conversation between Mas and González:

Felipe González: Independence is not possible. And it's not desirable. And if some day, something has to be decided, all Spaniards must decide. I think I have as much right to decide as President Mas.

Artur Mas: A first phase is what the people of Catalonia want. And once that is known, a negotiation will be required, which implies the whole of the state. There are shared interests, but from the starting point of the will of the people of Catalonia.

F.G.: National unity is not part of this discussion. The Spanish people is who must discuss if there is self-determination. I would like to avoid going down a dead end street.

A.M.: I believe that a clear majority of the Catalan people do not feel represented by the Spanish Constitution. In other places, that is not the case, but here it is. We have results from votes with clear majorities, parliamentary accords, and massive demonstrations in the street.

F.G.: I am sure that neither the president nor the people of Catalonia will want to break the law. Another framework? Both of us know that the principle of the majority and the minority has a legitimacy within the rules of the game. I am sure that you will never break the current law.

A.M.: That is my proposal and my commitment. In the Catalan Parliament we have just approved an initiative that has already been sent to the Spanish Congress so that they can transfer it to us. I told President Rajoy, 'If you think the act of transferring the power to hold a referendum carries too high of a political cost for you, well, we will approve a law of 'non-binding questions' in the Catalan Parliament. Of 'non-binding questions', not referendums. Don't abrogate it. Let us hold a 'non-binding question'. Then we'll know the democratic opinion of the Catalan people and from there we will have to sit down and talk to see what solution we find.

F.G. If you want a legal framework for the right to self-determination, you have to follow the established rules. Now, if you make a statement about independence, you'll be going down a dead-end street.

A.M. And if we don't move, won't we also be on a dead-end street? If we don't move, we know what we'll get: autonomic regression. [that is, that the Spanish state is taking back powers from the autonomic governments, like Catalonia]

F.G. The path to the conquest of self-determination is non-existent. On the horizon of what we can see, it is a non-existent path. If you have the right to decide, so do I. But I get my legitimacy from the Constitution.

A.M. We have the precedent from the United Kingdom. The Scottish will vote after coming to an agreement.

F.G. A Spanish president, no matter who it is, will never accept self-determination.