FoxyMayhem Profile Blog Joined April 2011 623 Posts Last Edited: 2011-11-24 05:58:31 #1



League of Legends has



StarCraft II is the best game in the world.



Agree with me or not on the second point, the first point is true. StarCraft II is an outstanding game and doesn't even have a fourth the amount of players. It has the foundation of Broodwar, arguably the greatest strategy game of generations and inarguably the most popular, it's made by one of the largest gaming companies in existence, and it's player base is still just a fraction of League of Legends -- though the actual number of players for LoL is probably lower due to duplicate accounts.



Still, something is wrong. StarCraft 2 is a success, and its eSports is booming. But something missing. The formula is off.



There is a void.



Let's take a look at the two games, and see what we can steal, and what we can't change.







Yesterday I posted on my Facebook to my once-Mennonite cousins and family members: Watched the national championship for Major League Gaming this weekend. The Darkhorse fought through to win the tournament against insane opposition, held his trophy up high, sweapt up in it all as the crowd chanted his name and received a huge check. He's been working for most of his life. That's some Hollywood stuff right there.



I recieved no likes, but that's not a surprise. For the most part, they are world he sports was never meant for. But I want to get MLG's name out there. Even if my extended family is not meant for eSports, eSports is a thing. Kind of like the World Cup is a thing, or Black Friday is a thing. It should be on people's radars, even if they're not actively engaged in it.



iNcontroL's blog described driving into the city to attend a star craft championship held in the stadium at twilight amongst the glittering city lights, debating with you buds who's going to take the championship. It stirred me. I want it, I want it bad. I've always wanted to cheer for football at my mother and father did, and though I have a good time, I never really got into it. Whether it was because of my health keeping me from experiencing much physical competition when I was young, or just the way I think, I don't know. But with StarCraft II there is no such barrier. I want to cry when Marine King Prime twists his shirt in his hands after yet another second place, the pain on his face. I jumped off my seat and shouted and fist pumped with my little brother when NaNiWa took the MLG invitational to open up MLG Providence. Take that, Korea! We foreigners are still kicking. And then I cheered when Leenock took him down -- I couldn't help it! Leenock, you earned a fan that day.



There's no doubt about it, StarCraft II is packing magic. It tells the human story of struggle and victory, and lasers.



I love this game.







But something is broken, something is incomplete, is it not? Something is wrong in the code. Shouldn't the player base be larger? It's unavoidable: the size of your playerbase limits your eSports potential.



Perhaps some hackles are rising, after all we're comparing to a mere casual game. "StarCraft II is not for the weak! If they need senseless shooters to come, then we don't need them." We almost feel the need to justify why are game isn't as big, to defend. But something needs to happen, StarCraft II needs to reach more people for the growth of eSports. So, do we dumb it down?



We cannot dumb down StarCraft II; That's part of the magic. So, what is there to do?



Steal the strenghts of competition. When I look at legends I find 3 steal-able appeals. (Obviously Free To Play is a huge boon to LoL, but the idea of translating that into paid content for Starcraft II... well, it's kind of horrifying. This is just for the stuff SCII can steal, and though there might be some ancient and mystic way to make Free-To-Play work for SCII, that's a whole other ball game. Instead, this section focuses on what's easier to play.)







1) Feeling heroic.

I am a fiction writer, and one of the greatest goals, more than half of everything we do, boils down to creating an emotion in our reader. You can see that in LoL as well; look at the new title screen, listen to the music. While the gameplay feels far from heroic, the paint they slap on the outside is compelling. I'm sure it's allure has brought many into the actual gameplay where they discover its gameplay and social merits, people who would have never made it that far otherwise. That emotion is the stepping stool that lets many climb over the barrier of entry.



And that is so crucial. Dozens of studies have been made on this mental "barrier of entry", and some of the smallest changes to reduce it create drastic changes in behavior.







2) Community

I logged into League of Legends one MLG to play between matches. The whole home screen, all the news, updates, everything but the navigation menu was removed. Instead, we got a link to the professional match streaming with some pretty art. Over 70,000 people showed up to watch that stream that day, the equivalent of a grand championship, and yet it was only day two.



The battle.net interface offered a small piece of art among several other scrolling headlines informing us of the tournament. It would be easy to miss, and very easy not to care about.



In fact, the whole battle.net 2.0 interface seems like a single player game with the multiplayer and community elements tucked away. It's the very tried and true basic interface design, with some updating. It gives a bare nod that there is a community behind it, but says little more. Why? Community is possibly StarCraft 2's greatest strength. Its heartbeat, no doubt. Why not have great banners for tournaments, watch-in-progress open pro customs, more destinations to meet new people inside the interface. One shouldn't have to go hunting the web to find the community. The newb should be sucked in, kicking and streaming, into the awesomeness.







3) Accessibility

Casual. LoL is. Call of Duty is. Halo is. Notice, all of these titles are outstandingly successful? Because of the casual gameplay, they're accessible. I honestly don't know if I would be in eSports if I didn't have as much time to dedicate to it. This is the biggest crux of the matter, is it not? A paradox: a game is either Deep and Small, or Large and Shallow. Right?



But we cannot be shallow, we cannot dumb. How could we? Create two different games, one for casual player and one for pro? And divide the ladder into two different parts? That's poison more than medicine.



It all goes back to you, Blizzard. What are you going to do with this paradox? How can we conquer it?



There are hundreds of tools out there, little psychology tricks and game design innovations, that can help us do just that. I don't have all the answers, but I think I have a bit one for accessibility. It's so simple it almost made me facepalm: split the tasks.







Multitasking stressful, and is one of the most demanding elements of StarCraft II. In Halo and Call of Duty there is no multitasking, and almost none in LoL. All you have is what's in front of you, and the reactions you training. Thus I propose splitting the tasks of macro and micro.



One player controls attacking units, the other controls production, gathering, and construction. It's based on the special team variant shared base from SC1, except only one can spend resources and only the other can command units, preventing those frustrating control conflicts. Call it something like "Fusion Ladder", where you use your skills with that of another. Allow the player to choose before searching to be the macro or micro player. See, I told you it was simple, but it does so much.



First, we get to feel more like a pro. Since we're not splitting our attention, we can perform our dedicated task at a higher level. We get to practice a skill set more dedicated, and feel that sense of progress in the reward that comes with it sooner and more often. These are all things that will draw a casual player in.



With divided tasks, there's more of a sense of teamwork. In standard 2v2 and 3v3, there's always an element of competition. You given the same tools in the same objectives, and teamwork often feels more like hoping to avoid failing teammates or screwing up than that sense of cooperation and accomplishment. With the Fusion Ladder you and your team are assigned different tasks, creating a psychological shift: he's doing what you can't and you're doing what he can't. The focus moves from competition to role fulfillment (like class-based shooters and LoL) and a is much more likely to create that sense of teamwork. I know my friend would play more if we could play this, instead of a 2v2 where he's failing and I'm trying to save the team.



This makes easier to get your friends involved. When handed the controls to StarCraft II, it's overwhelming. Micro and multipronged attacks are intricate enough to create an entire science out of, and that's forgetting macro, unit choice, and timings. By giving them a smaller, more accomplishable task -- with you there to help pull the slack without direct competition -- a noob will feel more involved and less overwhelmed. This will engage new players so much more.



I play LoL for working the lane with my friend, for coordinating. The Fusion Ladder harnesses that same social draw.



This post is a challange, a call, and a love letter to Blizzard. I challange them to create that heroic feel -- or stir some other universal emotion. I challange them to make their interface focus on the heart of StarCraft 2, the community. I challange them to create a convenient, inclusive interface that shares the wonder and gets casuals connected to scene, things like videos of player stories available right there in the interface. Yes, video in hte interface.



As pedestrian as this may seem, I want a video player in Starcraft II's interface. Because then it's just one click. Then they don't have to interrupt their game or change windows. It's so easy, so simple. Just one click to view something, no mental barrier fought.



There is a whole world of tools to bring in the casual player without corrupting the game. These are just a few, and I'm sure they're more. I encourage Blizzard to take these things to the next level, to grow eSports and StarCraft with that which is in their power. To put community in the fore front.



Then, perhaps, we can amass the audience SCII eSports deserves.

















League of Legends has 32 million players.StarCraft II is the best game in the world.Agree with me or not on the second point, the first point is true. StarCraft II is an outstanding game and doesn't even have a fourth the amount of players. It has the foundation of Broodwar, arguably the greatest strategy game of generations and inarguably the most popular, it's made by one of the largest gaming companies in existence, and it's player base is still just a fraction of League of Legends -- though the actual number of players for LoL is probably lower due to duplicate accounts.Still, something is wrong. StarCraft 2 is a success, and its eSports is booming. But something missing. The formula is off.There is a void.Let's take a look at the two games, and see what we can steal, and what we can't change.Yesterday I posted on my Facebook to my once-Mennonite cousins and family members:I recieved no likes, but that's not a surprise. For the most part, they are world he sports was never meant for. But I want to get MLG's name out there. Even if my extended family is not meant for eSports, eSports is aKind of like the World Cup is a thing, or Black Friday is a thing. It should be on people's radars, even if they're not actively engaged in it.iNcontroL's blog described driving into the city to attend a star craft championship held in the stadium at twilight amongst the glittering city lights, debating with you buds who's going to take the championship. It stirred me. I want it, I want it bad. I've always wanted to cheer for football at my mother and father did, and though I have a good time, I never really got into it. Whether it was because of my health keeping me from experiencing much physical competition when I was young, or just the way I think, I don't know. But with StarCraft II there is no such barrier. I want to cry when Marine King Prime twists his shirt in his hands after yet another second place, the pain on his face. I jumped off my seat and shouted and fist pumped with my little brother when NaNiWa took the MLG invitational to open up MLG Providence. Take that, Korea! We foreigners are still kicking. And then I cheered when Leenock took him down -- I couldn't help it! Leenock, you earned a fan that day.There's no doubt about it, StarCraft II is packing magic. It tells the human story of struggle and victory, and lasers.I love this game.But something is broken, something is incomplete, is it not? Something is wrong in the code. Shouldn't the player base be larger? It's unavoidable: the size of your playerbase limits your eSports potential.Perhaps some hackles are rising, after all we're comparing to a mere casual game. "StarCraft II is not for the weak! If they need senseless shooters to come, then we don't need them." We almost feel the need to justify why are game isn't as big, to defend. But something needs to happen, StarCraft II needs to reach more people for the growth of eSports. So, do we dumb it down?; That's part of the magic. So, what is there to do?Steal the strenghts of competition. When I look at legends I find 3 steal-able appeals. (Obviously Free To Play is a huge boon to LoL, but the idea of translating that into paid content for Starcraft II... well, it's kind of horrifying. This is just for the stuff SCII can steal, and though there might be some ancient and mystic way to make Free-To-Play work for SCII, that's a whole other ball game. Instead, this section focuses on what's easier to play.)I am a fiction writer, and one of the greatest goals, more than half of everything we do, boils down to creating an emotion in our reader. You can see that in LoL as well; look at the new title screen, listen to the music. While the gameplay feels far from heroic, the paint they slap on the outside is compelling. I'm sure it's allure has brought many into the actual gameplay where they discover its gameplay and social merits, people who would have never made it that far otherwise. That emotion is the stepping stool that lets many climb over the barrier of entry.And that is so crucial. Dozens of studies have been made on this mental "barrier of entry", and some of the smallest changes to reduce it create drastic changes in behavior.I logged into League of Legends one MLG to play between matches. The whole home screen, all the news, updates, everything but the navigation menu was removed. Instead, we got a link to the professional match streaming with some pretty art. Over 70,000 people showed up to watch that stream that day, the equivalent of a grand championship, and yet it was only day two.The battle.net interface offered a small piece of art among several other scrolling headlines informing us of the tournament. It would be easy to miss, and very easy not to care about.In fact, the whole battle.net 2.0 interface seems like a single player game with the multiplayer and community elements tucked away. It's the very tried and true basic interface design, with some updating. It gives a bare nod that there is a community behind it, but says little more. Why? Community is possibly StarCraft 2's greatest strength. Its heartbeat, no doubt. Why not have great banners for tournaments, watch-in-progress open pro customs, more destinations to meet new people inside the interface. One shouldn't have to go hunting the web to find the community. The newb should be sucked in, kicking and streaming, into the awesomeness.Casual. LoL is. Call of Duty is. Halo is. Notice, all of these titles are outstandingly successful? Because of the casual gameplay, they're accessible. I honestly don't know if I would be in eSports if I didn't have as much time to dedicate to it. This is the biggest crux of the matter, is it not? A paradox: a game is either Deep and Small, or Large and Shallow. Right?But we cannot be shallow, we cannot dumb. How could we? Create two different games, one for casual player and one for pro? And divide the ladder into two different parts? That's poison more than medicine.It all goes back to you, Blizzard. What are you going to do with this paradox? How can we conquer it?There are hundreds of tools out there, little psychology tricks and game design innovations, that can help us do just that. I don't have all the answers, but I think I have a bit one for accessibility. It's so simple it almost made me facepalm: split the tasks.Multitasking stressful, and is one of the most demanding elements of StarCraft II. In Halo and Call of Duty there is no multitasking, and almost none in LoL. All you have is what's in front of you, and the reactions you training. Thus I propose splitting the tasks of macro and micro.One player controls attacking units, the other controls production, gathering, and construction. It's based on the special team variant shared base from SC1, except only one can spend resources and only the other can command units, preventing those frustrating control conflicts. Call it something like "Fusion Ladder", where you use your skills with that of another. Allow the player to choose before searching to be the macro or micro player. See, I told you it was simple, but it does so much.First, we get tomore like a pro. Since we're not splitting our attention, we can perform our dedicated task at a higher level. We get to practice a skill set more dedicated, and feel that sense of progress in the reward that comes with it sooner and more often. These are all things that will draw a casual player in.With divided tasks, there's more of a sense of teamwork. In standard 2v2 and 3v3, there's always an element of competition. You given the same tools in the same objectives, and teamwork often feels more like hoping to avoid failing teammates or screwing up than that sense of cooperation and accomplishment. With the Fusion Ladder you and your team are assigned different tasks, creating a psychological shift: he's doing what you can't and you're doing what he can't. The focus moves from competition to role fulfillment (like class-based shooters and LoL) and a is much more likely to create that sense of teamwork. I know my friend would play more if we could play this, instead of a 2v2 where he's failing and I'm trying to save the team.This makes easier to get your friends involved. When handed the controls to StarCraft II, it's overwhelming. Micro and multipronged attacks are intricate enough to create an entire science out of, and that's forgetting macro, unit choice, and timings. By giving them a smaller, more accomplishable task -- with you there to help pull the slack without direct competition -- a noob will feel more involved and less overwhelmed. This will engage new players so much more.I play LoL for working the lane with my friend, for coordinating. The Fusion Ladder harnesses that same social draw.This post is a challange, a call, and a love letter to Blizzard. I challange them to create that heroic feel -- or stir some other universal emotion. I challange them to make their interface focus on the heart of StarCraft 2, the community. I challange them to create a convenient, inclusive interface that shares the wonder and gets casuals connected to scene, things like videos of player stories available right there in the interface. Yes, video in hte interface.As pedestrian as this may seem, I want a video player in Starcraft II's interface. Because then it's just one click. Then they don't have to interrupt their game or change windows. It's so easy, so simple. Just one click to view something, no mental barrier fought.There is a whole world of tools to bring in the casual player without corrupting the game. These are just a few, and I'm sure they're more. I encourage Blizzard to take these things to the next level, to grow eSports and StarCraft with that which is in their power. To put community in the fore front.Then, perhaps, we can amass the audience SCII eSports

Steveling Profile Blog Joined January 2011 Greece 6397 Posts #2 35 what? Source plz? My dick has shrunk to the point where it looks like I have 3 balls.

itkovian Profile Blog Joined March 2011 United States 1734 Posts #3 Nice blog, an interesting read.

But you failed to mention the key component to LoL's success. It is free to play. If starcraft was free, I'm sure it would have many more players. People are reluctant to "try out" a game if they have to pay for it. I'm not sure if there is an easy way for Blizzard to address this, unless at some point esports becomes so popular that they can make enough revenue from esports alone and would consequently not need the "game-purchase" revenue. =)=

lurked Profile Blog Joined March 2010 Canada 840 Posts Last Edited: 2011-11-24 04:13:55 #4 On November 24 2011 12:57 Steveling wrote:

35 what? Source plz?

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/news/community-grows-32-million-players



Well, not really 35, but 32 is close enough...



Yet again, a lot of these accounts are smurfs, etc... Because it's a free game, and there are freebies for people who "invite" more people to the game.(Only need to lvl an account to lvl 5, thats like 6-7games) Well, not really 35, but 32 is close enough...Yet again, a lot of these accounts are smurfs, etc... Because it's a free game, and there are freebies for people who "invite" more people to the game.(Only need to lvl an account to lvl 5, thats like 6-7games) Magic is "just" magic until I get my hands on the source code.

FoxyMayhem Profile Blog Joined April 2011 623 Posts Last Edited: 2011-11-24 04:24:23 #5 Yeah, I corrected the article and provided the link. Thanks for catching that, must have had the numbers switched in my head. In any case, give it a month and the old stat would be right. Also updated the Fusion Ladder art, the old one looked a little bland next to the rest.



As for the free to play, yes, that is a huge reason for LoL's success. This wasn't intended to be an exhaustive list detailing why LoL succeeds, just the parts we can steal. And I think most of us agree that the idea of a pay-for-content SCII is horrifying and probably completely broken. Maybe your theory would work, that would be quite the interesting day! Aside from that, there might be some ancient and obscure way to make it work, I won't discount that, but I just avoided that to focus on the more translatable strengths.

Chocolate Profile Blog Joined December 2010 United States 2304 Posts #6 On November 24 2011 13:08 itkovian wrote:

Nice blog, an interesting read.

But you failed to mention the key component to LoL's success. It is free to play. If starcraft was free, I'm sure it would have many more players. People are reluctant to "try out" a game if they have to pay for it. I'm not sure if there is an easy way for Blizzard to address this, unless at some point esports becomes so popular that they can make enough revenue from esports alone and would consequently not need the "game-purchase" revenue.

Starter edition let's you play unlimited custom games as Terran, so Starcraft can be tried for free.



OP, you bring up some great points. IMO Blizzard just needs to do more for SC2: provide access to tournaments in the client and make the menu better/ more accessible my chief concerns. They may do this for HOTS, but it will be a long wait if they leave important items out of the game so they can say the expansion is better, even though we are all going to get it. Starter edition let's you play unlimited custom games as Terran, so Starcraft can be tried for free.OP, you bring up some great points. IMO Blizzard just needs to do more for SC2: provide access to tournaments in the client and make the menu better/ more accessible my chief concerns. They may do this for HOTS, but it will be a long wait if they leave important items out of the game so they can say the expansion is better, even though we are all going to get it.

FoxyMayhem Profile Blog Joined April 2011 623 Posts #7 Thanks, Chocolate. If any of this gets implemented, I expect it to be in Legacy of the Void. They're locked down on finishing HotS and can't really set a bunch of new goals. I wanted to post this now, though, when they're just starting to think of the next expansion, to plant a seed, you know?

TheKefka Profile Blog Joined March 2011 Croatia 8812 Posts Last Edited: 2011-11-24 04:28:17 #8 Nice work on the article.

I have to say tho I completely disagree with you on everything.

Only thing I agree on is that Blizzard should put a little more effort into promoting their game and tournaments. Cackle™

FoxyMayhem Profile Blog Joined April 2011 623 Posts Last Edited: 2011-11-24 04:31:46 #9 Ha ha ha, fair enough. I'm curious why you think making a player feel heroic, or placing a video player inside the SCII interface is a bad idea?

itkovian Profile Blog Joined March 2011 United States 1734 Posts #10 On November 24 2011 13:16 FoxyMayhem wrote:

As for the free to play, yes, that is a huge reason for LoL's success. This wasn't intended to be an exhaustive list detailing why LoL succeeds, just the parts we can steal. And I think most of us agree that the idea of a pay-for-content SCII is horrifying and probably completely broken. Maybe your theory would work, that would be quite the interesting day! Aside from that, there might be some ancient and obscure way to make it work, I won't discount that, but I just avoided that to focus on the more translatable strengths.



I think it being free to play is the biggest part of LoL's success, but I do agree blizzard could do a better job promoting esports themselves, especially compared to riot. Maybe they don't see as much reason to do it themselves, because there are already a lot of other organizations (ie TL) that do a great job of promoting/covering it. But Blizz does need to do something to get the more casual players interested. It might be hard to implement, but some kind of stream in the SC2 program itself, like on the main menu page, would do wonders for the esports scene I think. I think it being free to play is the biggest part of LoL's success, but I do agree blizzard could do a better job promoting esports themselves, especially compared to riot. Maybe they don't see as much reason to do it themselves, because there are already a lot of other organizations (ie TL) that do a great job of promoting/covering it. But Blizz does need to do something to get the more casual players interested. It might be hard to implement, but some kind of stream in the SC2 program itself, like on the main menu page, would do wonders for the esports scene I think. =)=

FoxyMayhem Profile Blog Joined April 2011 623 Posts Last Edited: 2011-11-24 04:34:23 #11 The part that gets me is that I have several friends who play starcraft who don't even know there's an esports community. They've seen a hint here and there, but it's just some distant thing. Where Riot is excited to share it all with you and holds it up in your face, and there is no question whether or not there's an esports community.



And yes, I have no doubt that Free To Play is its biggest success. They've done a brilliant job of monetizing the gameplay without being overly intrusive either. But there's a lot of other factors I think blizzard would do to emulate and take a step further.

TheKefka Profile Blog Joined March 2011 Croatia 8812 Posts Last Edited: 2011-11-24 04:36:51 #12 I didn't really get what you were trying to say with LoL making you "feel heroic".

I play LoL and when I play or win it don't feel anymore heroic than when I win on the ladder.If anything I feel more satisfied when I win a long starcraft game than when I win one in LoL.

The video in interface is a good idea yea and that's what I meant when I said that I agree with you that Blizzard should put a little more effort into promoting their game and tournaments.

Aside from that here is my thought on sc2.I'm not thrilled by the way it is right now.It has potential,but idk.

And yea,making sc2 more casual than it already is,I don't see the point in that tbh.

There are some core things wrong with sc2 imo for it to become what you want,but I don't really feel like typing it here because it will just derail it into a bw vs sc2 thread. Cackle™

FoxyMayhem Profile Blog Joined April 2011 623 Posts Last Edited: 2011-11-24 04:50:02 #13 I'm not suggesting we make SCII more casual, except for the introduction of a Fusion Ladder, where army control is assinged to one player and production/construction is assigned to another. The players will still feel like they're playing a part of starcraft, all the strategy descussions and pro matches will still be relevant to their experience, but it's less overwhelming and more socially rewarding than the current ladder systems. The point is to attract those who can't or won't dedicate so much time to the brutal experience of 1v1, but who will play with their friends, or will play a more "tunnel vision" task. That's most people. We want them, you know, to grow SCII eSports.

d9mmdi Profile Blog Joined April 2011 Germany 179 Posts #14 I really like the idea with the shared control! You gotta step over dead bodies - Momma Plott

flamewheel Profile Blog Joined December 2009 FREEAGLELAND 25156 Posts #15 The "shared control" thing you're talking about... I miss Team Melee.

Writer damn, i was two days from retirement

TheKefka Profile Blog Joined March 2011 Croatia 8812 Posts Last Edited: 2011-11-24 04:52:59 #16 On November 24 2011 13:37 FoxyMayhem wrote:

I'm not suggesting we make SCII more casual, except for the introduction of a Fusion Ladder, where army control is assinged to one player and production/construction is assigned to another. The players will still feel like they're playing a part of starcraft, all the strategy descussions and pro matches will still be relevant to their experience, but it's less overwhelming and more socially rewarding than the current ladder systems. The point is to attract those who can't or won't dedicate so much time to the brutal experience of 1v1, but who will play with their friends. You know, to grow SCII eSports.

But you don't get what I mean.

We shouldn't promote stuff like that because the game SHOULD feel hard.It should be frustrate people when they play it.

Because when they go and watch a MLG they will appreciate that much more what the pros are doing.

And the thing that you are suggestion,splitting army control and resource management.That's basically 2v2 for you right there.

When you log onto ICCUP and play a few games you become mind boggled of how it is possible that someone can play this game like Bisu plays.

When I play ladder and than go watch Huk's stream,there are some smart things here and there that he is doing and refined builds,but,there is no overwhelming feeling of superiority that I feel towards him.

When I watch Dirk Nowitzki land a fade away jumper after another,I feel like"HOLY SHIT". GOD DAMN YOU LOCKOUT;GOD DAMN YOU!!

When I see Naniwa do a blink stalker +2 build,Its cool but,not the awe inspiring feeling.

What sc2 really needs in order to grow and for people to take it as a serious Esport is beyond just simple cosmetics and just catching the eye of the mainstream public.

+ Show Spoiler + HerO We need a But you don't get what I mean.We shouldn't promote stuff like that because the game SHOULD feel hard.It should be frustrate people when they play it.Because when they go and watch a MLG they will appreciate that much more what the pros are doing.And the thing that you are suggestion,splitting army control and resource management.That's basically 2v2 for you right there.When you log onto ICCUP and play a few games you become mind boggled of how it is possible that someone can play this game like Bisu plays.When I play ladder and than go watch Huk's stream,there are some smart things here and there that he is doing and refined builds,but,there is no overwhelming feeling of superiority that I feel towards him.When I watch Dirk Nowitzki land a fade away jumper after another,I feel like"HOLY SHIT". + Show Spoiler + When I see Naniwa do a blink stalker +2 build,Its cool but,not the awe inspiring feeling.What sc2 really needs in order to grow and for people to take it as a serious Esport is beyond just simple cosmetics and just catching the eye of the mainstream public. Cackle™

Steveling Profile Blog Joined January 2011 Greece 6397 Posts #17 On November 24 2011 13:12 lurked wrote:

Show nested quote +

On November 24 2011 12:57 Steveling wrote:

35 what? Source plz?

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/news/community-grows-32-million-players



Well, not really 35, but 32 is close enough...



Yet again, a lot of these accounts are smurfs, etc... Because it's a free game, and there are freebies for people who "invite" more people to the game.(Only need to lvl an account to lvl 5, thats like 6-7games) Well, not really 35, but 32 is close enough...Yet again, a lot of these accounts are smurfs, etc... Because it's a free game, and there are freebies for people who "invite" more people to the game.(Only need to lvl an account to lvl 5, thats like 6-7games)



Oh he meant accounts. Then the real amount must be something like 5m tops.

I never played lol and I have like 4 accounts. Oh he meant accounts. Then the real amount must be something like 5m tops.I never played lol and I have like 4 accounts. My dick has shrunk to the point where it looks like I have 3 balls.

Spicy_Curry Profile Blog Joined March 2011 United States 3154 Posts #18 On November 24 2011 13:47 TheKefka wrote:

Show nested quote +

On November 24 2011 13:37 FoxyMayhem wrote:

I'm not suggesting we make SCII more casual, except for the introduction of a Fusion Ladder, where army control is assinged to one player and production/construction is assigned to another. The players will still feel like they're playing a part of starcraft, all the strategy descussions and pro matches will still be relevant to their experience, but it's less overwhelming and more socially rewarding than the current ladder systems. The point is to attract those who can't or won't dedicate so much time to the brutal experience of 1v1, but who will play with their friends. You know, to grow SCII eSports.

But you don't get what I mean.

We shouldn't promote stuff like that because the game SHOULD feel hard.It should be frustrate people when they play it.

Because when they go and watch a MLG they will appreciate that much more what the pros are doing.

And the thing that you are suggestion,splitting army control and resource management.That's basically 2v2 for you right there.

When you log onto ICCUP and play a few games you become mind boggled of how it is possible that someone can play this game like Bisu plays.

When I play ladder and than go watch Huk's stream,there are some smart things here and there that he is doing and refined builds,but,there is no overwhelming feeling of superiority that I feel towards him.

When I watch Dirk Nowitzki land a fade away jumper after another,I feel like"HOLY SHIT". GOD DAMN YOU LOCKOUT;GOD DAMN YOU!!

When I see Naniwa do a blink stalker +2 build,Its cool but,not the awe inspiring feeling.

What sc2 really needs in order to grow and for people to take it as a serious Esport is beyond just simple cosmetics and just catching the eye of the mainstream public.

+ Show Spoiler + HerO We need a But you don't get what I mean.We shouldn't promote stuff like that because the game SHOULD feel hard.It should be frustrate people when they play it.Because when they go and watch a MLG they will appreciate that much more what the pros are doing.And the thing that you are suggestion,splitting army control and resource management.That's basically 2v2 for you right there.When you log onto ICCUP and play a few games you become mind boggled of how it is possible that someone can play this game like Bisu plays.When I play ladder and than go watch Huk's stream,there are some smart things here and there that he is doing and refined builds,but,there is no overwhelming feeling of superiority that I feel towards him.When I watch Dirk Nowitzki land a fade away jumper after another,I feel like"HOLY SHIT". + Show Spoiler + When I see Naniwa do a blink stalker +2 build,Its cool but,not the awe inspiring feeling.What sc2 really needs in order to grow and for people to take it as a serious Esport is beyond just simple cosmetics and just catching the eye of the mainstream public.



I get the holy crap feeling when Naniwa lays the sickest forcefields and storms the army ^_^ I get the holy crap feeling when Naniwa lays the sickest forcefields and storms the army ^_^ High Risk Low Reward

WaveofShadow Profile Blog Joined April 2010 Canada 19661 Posts #19 On November 24 2011 13:49 Steveling wrote:

Show nested quote +

On November 24 2011 13:12 lurked wrote:

On November 24 2011 12:57 Steveling wrote:

35 what? Source plz?

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/news/community-grows-32-million-players



Well, not really 35, but 32 is close enough...



Yet again, a lot of these accounts are smurfs, etc... Because it's a free game, and there are freebies for people who "invite" more people to the game.(Only need to lvl an account to lvl 5, thats like 6-7games) Well, not really 35, but 32 is close enough...Yet again, a lot of these accounts are smurfs, etc... Because it's a free game, and there are freebies for people who "invite" more people to the game.(Only need to lvl an account to lvl 5, thats like 6-7games)



Oh he meant accounts. Then the real amount must be something like 5m tops.

I never played lol and I have like 4 accounts. Oh he meant accounts. Then the real amount must be something like 5m tops.I never played lol and I have like 4 accounts.

That's still very impressive if you think about it. I don't know what SC2 numbers are like but I don't think they're that high....even WoW is hemorrhaging while LoL numbers only grow... That's still very impressive if you think about it. I don't know what SC2 numbers are like but I don't think they're that high....even WoW is hemorrhaging while LoL numbers only grow... twitch.tv/waveofshadow ||| Winner of AHGL's So You Think You Can Cast! ||| Juicy Dad for lyfe ||| 'idk i get a kick out of stupid things' - Jarms Yarng

Kiett Profile Blog Joined March 2011 United States 5789 Posts Last Edited: 2011-11-24 05:01:03 #20



But yes, you're right on some points. Before this summer's Dreamhack, I'd never watched games on streams before. What was this e-sports thing you speak of? But it was all the hype and support that Riot put behind the Season 1 Championships (that, and one of my friends was competing) that kind of sucked me in. You couldn't play a game without seeing the huge banner smack in the middle of the game client and main website. The



However, I object to any measure to dumb SC down to make it more casual. That's simply not the nature of the game. I don't think Blizzard should compromise the essence of a 14 year old series so that it can lure in more casuals. I think what you're suggesting could be done in a custom map setting for practice, but not through a completely different ladder or game mode. I don't know why you'd actually want to promote tunnel vision or similarly bad play.





Edit:





On November 24 2011 13:49 Steveling wrote:

Show nested quote +

On November 24 2011 13:12 lurked wrote:

On November 24 2011 12:57 Steveling wrote:

35 what? Source plz?

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/news/community-grows-32-million-players



Well, not really 35, but 32 is close enough...



Yet again, a lot of these accounts are smurfs, etc... Because it's a free game, and there are freebies for people who "invite" more people to the game.(Only need to lvl an account to lvl 5, thats like 6-7games) Well, not really 35, but 32 is close enough...Yet again, a lot of these accounts are smurfs, etc... Because it's a free game, and there are freebies for people who "invite" more people to the game.(Only need to lvl an account to lvl 5, thats like 6-7games)



Oh he meant accounts. Then the real amount must be something like 5m tops.

I never played lol and I have like 4 accounts. Oh he meant accounts. Then the real amount must be something like 5m tops.I never played lol and I have like 4 accounts.



If you actually bothered to see a little further down, LoL has 4.2 million active players daily, and 11.5 million players monthly. So unless you're saying that every person registered plays every single day without fail and some of them get on 2 or 3 of their accounts every month, then I'm pretty sure you're wrong. Most people I know have just 2 accounts, their main and 1 smurf, which I admittedly almost never touch. If it makes you feel any better, the vast majority of that 32 million is situated in China. And China loves MOBAs. DotA is far more popular there than BW, and DotA2/LoL is far more popular than SC2 will ever be there. Direct comparison of numbers isn't completely fair when one game has inherent access to the worlds largest market that the other can never hope to breach.But yes, you're right on some points. Before this summer's Dreamhack, I'd never watched games on streams before. What was this e-sports thing you speak of? But it was all the hype and support that Riot put behind the Season 1 Championships (that, and one of my friends was competing) that kind of sucked me in. You couldn't play a game without seeing the huge banner smack in the middle of the game client and main website. The website they made for the event was laid out well and made the streams easy to access, the results easy to see, and the schedule easy to find. It's no wonder that even in it's first time being featured in a major global e-sports tournament, LoL had 200,000 concurrent viewers on its stream. And Riot does this for every single IEM, MLG, Dreamhack, etc. It's actually gotten to the point where I don't even bother to click anymore, but I'm sure there are people who still do every time, as well as new players who get drawn in through curiosity.However, I object to any measure to dumb SC down to make it more casual. That's simply not the nature of the game. I don't think Blizzard should compromise the essence of a 14 year old series so that it can lure in more casuals. I think what you're suggesting could be done in a custom map setting for practice, but not through a completely different ladder or game mode. I don't know why you'd actually want to promote tunnel vision or similarly bad play.Edit:If you actually bothered to see a little further down, LoL has 4.2 million active players daily, and 11.5 million players monthly. So unless you're saying that every person registered plays every single day without fail and some of them get on 2 or 3 of their accounts every month, then I'm pretty sure you're wrong. Most people I know have just 2 accounts, their main and 1 smurf, which I admittedly almost never touch. Writer :o

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