LaLuSh Profile Blog Joined April 2003 Sweden 2327 Posts #1



It's something you notice when you go back to Brood War after having played other RTS games for a period of time:



Holding down the left/right mouse button in BW completely blocks all keyboard inputs from being registered.



For example: You have 3 control groups of units you want to 1a2a3a.



You press 1, you press a, you click on the map.

You immediately press 2, but you haven't yet released your mouse from clicking on the map from step 1. This results in your 2nd control group never getting selected.





I wanted to ask the Teamliquid BW forum whether you guys think this is a "feature of Starcraft", or whether it should be considered an archaic quirk of the game that was probably never intended to be in there.



In other words: Is it okay for Blizzard to patch this and make Brood War accept keyboard inputs at the same time as mouse inputs?



Poll: Should BW be able to register simultaneous keyboard and mouse inputs?



Yes (315)

83%



No (59)

15%



Other (7)

2%



381 total votes (315)83%(59)15%(7)2%381 total votes Your vote: Should BW be able to register simultaneous keyboard and mouse inputs? (Vote): Yes

(Vote): No

(Vote): Other



I wanted to take the chance and discuss a peculiar mouse and keyboard interaction quirk that has existed in Brood War ever since the game launched.It's something you notice when you go back to Brood War after having played other RTS games for a period of time:For example: You have 3 control groups of units you want to 1a2a3a.I wanted to ask the Teamliquid BW forum whether you guys think this is a "feature of Starcraft", or whether it should be considered an archaic quirk of the game that was probably never intended to be in there.In other words: Is it okay for Blizzard to patch this and make Brood War accept keyboard inputs at the same time as mouse inputs?

mattias Profile Joined March 2017 8 Posts #2 In my opinion input delay should not exist mainly because there used to be workaround to that back in the days iirc, BUT HARDCORE C- VETERANS will be telling you that it will break the balance and will be unaceptable just like hotkeys, only if they knew many people including me were playing on iccup and fish with changed hotkeys for years haha

Philoctetes Profile Joined March 2017 Netherlands 77 Posts Last Edited: 2017-03-31 16:59:43 #3



You can also 1a2a3a too fast, and it doesn't register either.



As for input delay, I heard there is a test server with 1.18 online right now. So what is the input delay? The same as original 28.8 baud modem-era Starcraft? The same as WC3? The same as SC2/LoL, or the same as LAN latency?







Of course. But Blizzard never thought about it.You can also 1a2a3a too fast, and it doesn't register either.As for input delay, I heard there is a test server with 1.18 online right now. So what is the input delay? The same as original 28.8 baud modem-era Starcraft? The same as WC3? The same as SC2/LoL, or the same as LAN latency? BUT HARDCORE C- VETERANS will be telling you that it will break the balance and will be unaceptable just like hotkeys ...



I hope this is sarcasm and making fun of people who complain about others with valid balance concerns. if so, lie it on thicker and actually find some funnies. If not, get your 5 post account back to the SC2 board. I hope this is sarcasm and making fun of people who complain about others with valid balance concerns. if so, lie it on thicker and actually find some funnies. If not, get your 5 post account back to the SC2 board.

LaLuSh Profile Blog Joined April 2003 Sweden 2327 Posts #4 This thread has nothing to do with input delay.



The reason 1a2a3a-ing fails to register is almost in all cases because your mouse button wasn't fully released after clicking on the map/minimap.



Try it for yourself.

Philoctetes Profile Joined March 2017 Netherlands 77 Posts #5 Well, if there is input delay like there is in unmodified SC/SC2/WC3, why chance this annoying but minor effect, but keep the delay as is?

travertine Profile Joined March 2017 3 Posts #6 if they change such a thing, it should be a toggle option in the menu instead of just changing it

mdb Profile Blog Joined February 2003 Bulgaria 4056 Posts #7 I voted no. This will lower the skill cap a little bit (which is not good thing in my book) and also it will hurt the mechanically better players.

st4ck0v3rfl0w Profile Blog Joined January 2008 79 Posts Last Edited: 2017-03-31 17:58:39 #8



I also did a test a while ago, where some clicks of me were not registered correctly. Windows just sent a doubleclick message to starcraft which was then ignored. I don't know if this is just a problem with my mouse, but I'd say attack and then doubleclick should also result in an attack, and not nothing. On April 01 2017 02:13 mdb wrote:

I voted no. This will lower the skill cap a little bit (which is not good thing in my book) and also it will hurt the mechanically better players.

I disagree. I would argue that removing this limitation allows players to micro more which I think is desired I disagree. I would argue that removing this limitation allows players to micro more which I think is desired

B-Wong Profile Joined October 2010 United States 240 Posts #9 I definitely think this engine limitation should be remedied if possible. It's really frustrating to not have your inputs go through as it just makes the game feel more sluggish in terms of controls. I don't think it's especially skillful either to only be able to control your army using only either the keyboard or the mouse. It's not as if the inputs weren't sent at all, so clearly the intention behind the action is there. Also what if your particular mouse model's switches happen to take an extra fraction of a second to lift up? I don't think that there should be a limitation on people's ability to play due to the particular peripherals that they use.

rand0MPrecisi0n Profile Joined February 2017 313 Posts #10 Been in the game for 18 years, everyone dealt with it just fine, but let's CHANGE EVERYTHING

rand0MPrecisi0n Profile Joined February 2017 313 Posts #11 On April 01 2017 02:46 st4ck0v3rfl0w wrote:

I also did a test a while ago, where some clicks of me were not registered correctly. Windows just sent a doubleclick message to starcraft which was then ignored. I don't know if this is just a problem with my mouse, but I'd say attack and then doubleclick should also result in an attack, and not nothing.



Show nested quote +

On April 01 2017 02:13 mdb wrote:

I voted no. This will lower the skill cap a little bit (which is not good thing in my book) and also it will hurt the mechanically better players.

I disagree. I would argue that removing this limitation allows players to micro more which I think is desired I also did a test a while ago, where some clicks of me were not registered correctly. Windows just sent a doubleclick message to starcraft which was then ignored. I don't know if this is just a problem with my mouse, but I'd say attack and then doubleclick should also result in an attack, and not nothing.



This argument is ridiculous. It doesn't matter what it allows playes to do more. You see, players that have faster 1a2a3a4a5a already can do more than players that don't. By removing this it makes it even, essentially lowering the skill cap. The game punishes people with sloppy inputs, who deserve to be punished, and rewards those who either have the talent to do it cleanly, or put in a lot of effort into learning how to do it cleanly This argument is ridiculous. It doesn't matter what it allows playes to do more. You see, players that have faster 1a2a3a4a5a already can do more than players that don't. By removing this it makes it even, essentially lowering the skill cap. The game punishes people with sloppy inputs, who deserve to be punished, and rewards those who either have the talent to do it cleanly, or put in a lot of effort into learning how to do it cleanly

rand0MPrecisi0n Profile Joined February 2017 313 Posts #12 As far as the argument about 'certain mouses have different switches', this can really be applied to any peripheral and any game whatsoever. Some people play CS with bad sensors, should the game correct your aim cause players with worse sensors aren't able to aim properly? Some people have bad keyboards, should the game correct your inputs cause your board sucks? We should just make the game play itself then, but if we're going to arbitrarily have to draw the line somewhere, it should be where it's already at, as it has been played and loved for 18+ years

B-royal Profile Joined May 2015 Belgium 1330 Posts #13 Bad to remove. Same thing with having custom hotkeys. Anyone's that's every tried to micro two control groups of mutalisks will love these changes.



1: 11 mutalisks

2: 11 mutalisks



1 right click, 2 right click, 1 hold position, 2 hold position, 1 right click back, 2 right click back.



Allowing this keyboard input to register would make this way too easy. Same thing with having custom hotkeys. new BW-player (~E rank fish) twitch.tv/crispydrone || What plays 500 games a season but can't get better? => http://imgur.com/a/pLzf9 <= ||

outscar Profile Joined September 2014 1961 Posts Last Edited: 2017-04-01 00:00:52 #14 On March 30 2017 23:03 outscar wrote:

I got some input issues related to spamming. On 1.16 if you holded key f.e. 3 (CC) and while holding that key if you clicked to minerals you could switch between CC and minerals. In this version if I click to minerals while holding my CC key and then release my click my screen doesn't go back to CC thus I need to push my 3 (CC) hotkey again. Hope I could explain. If not I will try to rec a video.





Nice that someone finally noted this out. This thing should be fixed immediately! I mean just give back before input. Please post this on Battle.net forum as well. Nice that someone finally noted this out. This thing should be fixed immediately! I mean just give back before input. Please post this on Battle.net forum as well. sunbeams are never made like me...

rand0MPrecisi0n Profile Joined February 2017 313 Posts #15 On April 01 2017 08:59 outscar wrote:

Show nested quote +

On March 30 2017 23:03 outscar wrote:

I got some input issues related to spamming. On 1.16 if you holded key f.e. 3 (CC) and while holding that key if you clicked to minerals you could switch between CC and minerals. In this version if I click to minerals while holding my CC key and then release my click my screen doesn't go back to CC thus I need to push my 3 (CC) hotkey again. Hope I could explain. If not I will try to rec a video.





Nice that someone finally noted this out. This thing should be fixed immediately! I mean just give back before input. Please post this on Battle.net forum as well. Nice that someone finally noted this out. This thing should be fixed immediately! I mean just give back before input. Please post this on Battle.net forum as well.



I don't think this is the same problem this guy is talking about. The mouse always prevented keyboard inputs, but the keyboard doesn't prevent mouse inputs. If it's changed from the original then it needs to be addressed for sure I don't think this is the same problem this guy is talking about. The mouse always prevented keyboard inputs, but the keyboard doesn't prevent mouse inputs. If it's changed from the original then it needs to be addressed for sure

CognacLover Profile Joined January 2016 Poland 66 Posts Last Edited: 2017-04-01 00:29:56 #16 On April 01 2017 09:14 rand0MPrecisi0n wrote:

Show nested quote +

On April 01 2017 08:59 outscar wrote:

On March 30 2017 23:03 outscar wrote:

I got some input issues related to spamming. On 1.16 if you holded key f.e. 3 (CC) and while holding that key if you clicked to minerals you could switch between CC and minerals. In this version if I click to minerals while holding my CC key and then release my click my screen doesn't go back to CC thus I need to push my 3 (CC) hotkey again. Hope I could explain. If not I will try to rec a video.





Nice that someone finally noted this out. This thing should be fixed immediately! I mean just give back before input. Please post this on Battle.net forum as well. Nice that someone finally noted this out. This thing should be fixed immediately! I mean just give back before input. Please post this on Battle.net forum as well.



I don't think this is the same problem this guy is talking about. The mouse always prevented keyboard inputs, but the keyboard doesn't prevent mouse inputs. If it's changed from the original then it needs to be addressed for sure I don't think this is the same problem this guy is talking about. The mouse always prevented keyboard inputs, but the keyboard doesn't prevent mouse inputs. If it's changed from the original then it needs to be addressed for sure



I got same issue it's backwards opposite issue of what OP said. Now while pressing keyboard button I can't cycle through hotkey pressing, holding and mouse clicking. If I click mouse button while holding down hotkey I can't get back to my hotkey. I got same issue it's backwards opposite issue of what OP said. Now while pressing keyboard button I can't cycle through hotkey pressing, holding and mouse clicking. If I click mouse button while holding down hotkey I can't get back to my hotkey. Conservative olsdchooler.

rand0MPrecisi0n Profile Joined February 2017 313 Posts #17 Can someone else test this? I tested on 1.16 and what happens is that the game accepts key repetition (like when you're using word or notepad), so if you hold down a key it starts repeating. I can't run PTR here to see what is going on.



Someone kind enough please test if you can't hold a key down and it keeps repeating (for example, group a unit to 1, tell the unit to go somewhere and hold down 1, if the screen keeps centering it's repeating, if not it isn't)



Second test would be try to press the mouse when you have a key pressed down, see if the mouse click is registered



Third would be to group something to any number, box somewhere empty, hold down the number you grouped, wait a second and then release the mouse button. See if the screen jumps to your grouped unit



Thanks a lot!

GoShox Profile Blog Joined December 2007 United States 1794 Posts #18 On April 01 2017 08:59 outscar wrote:

Show nested quote +

On March 30 2017 23:03 outscar wrote:

I got some input issues related to spamming. On 1.16 if you holded key f.e. 3 (CC) and while holding that key if you clicked to minerals you could switch between CC and minerals. In this version if I click to minerals while holding my CC key and then release my click my screen doesn't go back to CC thus I need to push my 3 (CC) hotkey again. Hope I could explain. If not I will try to rec a video.





Nice that someone finally noted this out. This thing should be fixed immediately! I mean just give back before input. Please post this on Battle.net forum as well. Nice that someone finally noted this out. This thing should be fixed immediately! I mean just give back before input. Please post this on Battle.net forum as well.



I believe this issue is due to the difference between L1 and L2. My guess is that when Blizz switches to L2, this will go back to the behavior in 1.16 I believe this issue is due to the difference between L1 and L2. My guess is that when Blizz switches to L2, this will go back to the behavior in 1.16

rand0MPrecisi0n Profile Joined February 2017 313 Posts #19 Every issue should be tested and documented, instead of just assuming its cause and hoping it's fixed. Also, BW input is client sided, so idk how you got from 'input not working problem' to 'this is a latency issue'

ninazerg Profile Blog Joined October 2009 United States 7264 Posts #20 On April 01 2017 02:00 LaLuSh wrote:

This thread has nothing to do with input delay.



The reason 1a2a3a-ing fails to register is almost in all cases because your mouse button wasn't fully released after clicking on the map/minimap.



Try it for yourself.



You have to play cleaner. Don't be so sloppy and over-spam the keyboard. You have to play cleaner. Don't be so sloppy and over-spam the keyboard. "If two pregnant women get into a fist fight, it's like a mecha-battle between two unborn babies." - Fyodor Dostoevsky

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