READER COMMENTS ON

"'Tom Tomorrow' Covers ACORN 'Pimp' Hoax, Depicts NYT Public Editor Clark Hoyt as a Weasel"

(43 Responses so far...)





COMMENT #1 [Permalink]

... Justin said on 3/2/2010 @ 3:38 pm PT...





LoL you got your face rearranged today. You suck and so does your shitty cheap dime blog lol.

COMMENT #2 [Permalink]

... Ernest A. Canning said on 3/2/2010 @ 4:56 pm PT...





Ah, Justin, I see you're not one of the sharpest tools in the shed. The character depicted as the weasel in the cartoon is supposed to be Hoyt, giving his nonsensical explanation to Brad Friedman. But Brad, I'd really have liked to see the John Yoo cartoon posted here as well. Hilarious, yet tragic, don't you think?

COMMENT #3 [Permalink]

... Patterico said on 3/2/2010 @ 6:34 pm PT...





O’Keefe: But, one of the things I was one of the things we also wanna do um one of my goals you asked you asked do you know how you wanna do this, I think one of the goals is not only can Eden protect some of these 13, 14, 15 year-old girls Theresa (ACORN) Yeah. O’Keefe: coming over from El Salvador. In addition to protecting them and getting their feet on the ground so that they can you know perform the tricks and you know learn the how LA prostitution scene is I was also wanting to um use some of the this is very lucrative and potentially we can use a lot of the money we’re getting from the underaged girls from El Salvador and use some of the money for campaign one day . . . . O’Keefe: We’re bringing these girls from overseas. Hannah (Eden) Well, they’re here. O’Keefe: But, we are gonna take a part of the profit and I intend to use the profit Theresa (ACORN): Right. O’Keefe: From the tricks the girls perform Theresa (ACORN): Right. O’Keefe: To fund my political campaign. Theresa (ACORN): Right.

COMMENT #4 [Permalink]

... Brad Friedman said on 3/2/2010 @ 6:40 pm PT...





Thanks for posting clips from one of the unauthenticated text transcripts, Patty. BTW, as a District D.A., what have you done to authenticate them --- as I'm sure you'd do, even as a blogger, before putting any stock in them --- and why do you think O'Keefe and Breitbart refuse to release the unedited videos 6 months later? I continue to look forward to your answer. Also, you're supporting NYTimes unwillingness to correct completely inaccurate stories now? And Breitbart who either lied in his own column, or committed "journalistic malpractice" in publishing those hoax videos? If so, why to either of them? Thanks in advance for your answers this time!

COMMENT #5 [Permalink]

... Patterico said on 3/2/2010 @ 6:45 pm PT...





"We did not interview the employees captured on video, since we were satisfied there was no question that the visits occurred and the comments were made. . . . Hence, all our knowledge about the videos is largely circumstantial and secondhand." --- from the report by paid ACORN consultant Scott Harshbarger

COMMENT #6 [Permalink]

... Ernest A. Canning said on 3/2/2010 @ 6:55 pm PT...





Patrick, Patrick, Patrick, my perfidious friend. First you isolate a few words out of a 46 page transcript and reassemble them to paint a misleading picture, and now you quote the former MA AG completely out of context. Here's the full quote, including the preceding sentence that you neglected to include: "Appendix D, which stem from interviews of ACORN employees, many of whom did not have direct knowledge of the events but who spoke with the individuals captured on video, or with employees who had been approached by the videographers. We did not interview the employees captured on video, since we were satisfied there was no question that the visits occurred and the comments were made." You aren't, by chance, a member of the Federalist Society are you?

COMMENT #7 [Permalink]

... Brad Friedman said on 3/2/2010 @ 7:03 pm PT...





Ernie - My friend Patty has a habit of knowingly taking quotes of context, and hiding that context from his readers (and mine, apparently) when he's trying to make a dishonest case. If ya can't do it legitimately, do it the Patterico way, call 'em lovers of child prostitution, and presume your readers ain't gonna bother to actually check the facts. That's all a pretty safe assumption when it comes to Patty's readers. Still wondering how he, as the Los Angeles Deputy District Attorney actually bothered to authenticate any of those "unedited audios" that he says prove something or other. Hopefully his bosses have a somewhat higher threshold for determining "proof" and "evidence" and stuff, but who knows? Perhaps they should investigate Patrick Frey, Deputy District Attorney and see what they come up with? I'm sure there's some damning "unedited audio" out there they could use to get him!

COMMENT #8 [Permalink]

... Ben Froland said on 3/2/2010 @ 7:04 pm PT...





I don't know why you insist on continuing with the weak "pimp hoax" angle. Patterico is having a field day debunking this. O’Keefe: coming over from El Salvador. In addition to protecting them and getting their feet on the ground so that they can you know perform the tricks and you know learn the how LA prostitution scene is I was also wanting to um use some of the this is very lucrative and potentially we can use a lot of the money we’re getting from the underaged girls from El Salvador and use some of the money for campaign one day Sorry he didn't have a name tag on that said "pimp." Please don't use the "unauthenticated text transcripts" routine. Or please do. If that's your best argument.

COMMENT #9 [Permalink]

... Ernest A. Canning said on 3/2/2010 @ 7:07 pm PT...





Oh, in trying to keep up with you Patrick, I neglected to pose the response I had to your #3. I'm curious both you and The New York Times are so concerned about a couple of low level ACORN employees who were entrapped in the accused federal felon's deceptive "sting," yet I've seen not one word from either you or The New York Times about the sworn affidavits of former Blackwater/Xe insiders which not only alleged that Blackwater had engaged in murder, destruction of evidence, weapons smuggling, and corruption but specifically alleged that Blackwater operated a wife-swapping sex ring here in the US, and that, in Iraq, Blackwater had “young girls provide oral sex to Enterprise members in the 'Blackwater Man Camp' in exchange for one American dollar." Tell me, in your expert opinion, if Blackwater management arranged for young Iraqi girls to provide oral sex to its employees in exchange for $1, doesn't that make Blackwater management a gang of pimps? Are you aware of any similar allegations in which ACORN's management (as opposed to the deceived low level part-time employees who were fired) did anything remotely similar to that which Blackwater management is accused? Are you troubled that Congress has failed to cut off funds for Blackwater, like they've cut off funds for ACORN? Are you even the least bit troubled that O'Keefe and Giles appear to have violated Penal Code 632 or is it that you, like Alberto Gonzales before you, believe that the law should only be enforced against those who do not agree with your political views?

COMMENT #10 [Permalink]

... Ernest A. Canning said on 3/2/2010 @ 7:20 pm PT...





Ah, here we go, Froland and Patrick have shifted from the Baltimore transcript to the LA transcript. The entire thrust of Patrick's challenge at his site pertained to the Baltimore videos, which he posted sans transcripts. Examination of the Baltimore transcripts reflects that O'Keefe, for 39 of the 46 pages, posed as a college student and Giles' friend. He deceptively added the word "we" and "cash" to be used in his "campaign," and Patrick parsed those few disconnected words and phrases out of a 46 page transcript in order to paint a false picture that his hero, the accused federal felon, posed as a "pimp." I have not yet taken the time to scour the L.A. transcript, but now that our deceptive DA has shifted ground, I will soon do so. As I'm sure Patrick will concede, we have a jury instruction that a witness who is willfully false in one part of his or her testimony is to be distrusted in others. And so it will be for me with anything Patrick has to say on this subject unless and until the entire transcripts show otherwise.

COMMENT #11 [Permalink]

... BlueHawk said on 3/2/2010 @ 8:24 pm PT...





More of Mr. Patterico's sloopy comments.... Seems Mr. Patterico has a nasty habit of calling people that he doesn't agree with liars.

It's his only defense...if he disagrees or doesn't like an article then you're just a liar in his book. His debating skills are really weak...slinging the epithet liar is his only defense. I try to read right wing blogs to get some balance...I will never read Patterico again, he has no credibility.

COMMENT #12 [Permalink]

... Ernest A. Canning said on 3/2/2010 @ 9:08 pm PT...





Well this is interesting. Patrick Frey aka Patterico, without providing a link, posted remarks made by O'Keefe presumably at ACORN in LA since it talks about bringing prostitutes to LA. Here's two things he left off: First, from the Harshbarger Report: . "Three of the six videos --- Brooklyn, Los Angeles and Washington, D.C. --- involved only ACORN Housing employees, over which ACORN has no control." ACORN Housing is "a separately incorporated organization (not a subsidiary or affiliate) with which ACORN contracts for home buyer and foreclosure programs." Frey is an attorney, a Deputy DA, so he surely understands the legal significance of the fact that these are two "separate" entities. Curiously, I did not find a transcript on line for the sting at LA ACORN housing, but I did find this: "But tonight, biggovernment.com offered praise for a worker at an ACORN facility in Los Angeles, saying he refused to bite when they came to the Wilshire Boulevard office with their faux business." I would respectfully request, Mr. Frey, that you: 1. Furnish links to all of the transcripts, and 2. Explain why you jumped from the Baltimore transcript which shows that O'Keefe did not pose as a "pimp" at that ACORN office to the L.A. ACORN Housing transcript in which O'Keefe appears to have been much more blunt than in Baltimore --- perhaps, and this is just a supposition, because he wasn't getting anywhere with the obtuse approach he'd applied in Baltimore. Please also explain why you failed to disclose to the readers of this blog that the ACORN Housing employee essentially told the accused federal felon O'Keefe to stick his little scheme where the sun doesn't shine.

COMMENT #13 [Permalink]

... Patterico said on 3/2/2010 @ 9:38 pm PT...





Patrick Frey aka Patterico, without providing a link, posted remarks made by O'Keefe presumably at ACORN in LA since it talks about bringing prostitutes to LA. San Bernardino, actually. As you would already know, if you were truly familiar with the source documentation as I am.

COMMENT #14 [Permalink]

... Patterico said on 3/2/2010 @ 9:40 pm PT...





His debating skills are really weak...slinging the epithet liar is his only defense. I have a lengthy comment chock full of links and evidence sitting in moderation. Not that you would pay any attention to it. But honest people might.

COMMENT #15 [Permalink]

... Ernest A. Canning said on 3/2/2010 @ 10:58 pm PT...





Oh, I do indeed thank you Pat for revealing the this was the San Bernardino office. Harshbarger informs us that in the San Bernardino office, the ACORN employee, fearing for her own safety, gave O'Keefe and Giles her own line of B.S., stating, Harshbarger reports, "she had killed her husband and had previously run an escort service. In fact, her former husbands are alive." As soon as she was rid of them, the employee locked the door. Of your you knew that since you read the Harshbarger report, but conveniently forgot to mention that when you cited the San Bernardino ACORN sting in you haste to sling mud at Brad. I guess it's okay for right wing trolls like O'Keefe and Giles to pretend they're something their not, but when the victim of their little scheme gives them back some BS we're supposed to believe every word the victim said. You once again prove that nothing you write can be relied upon.

COMMENT #16 [Permalink]

... Soul Rebel said on 3/2/2010 @ 11:43 pm PT...





A few blog posts back, when it became clear that O'G WannaBe never actually went into the ACORN offices wearing Bootsy's hand me downs (somewhere near the B-Roll post), I made the comment that it was ludicrous to think that someone in the ACORN offices would take that seriously in the first place... this whole text transcript bullshit smells of the same rotting fish I mean, really...some skinny white guy whose left nut hasn't dropped yet comes in talking about protecting underaged El Salvadoran prostitutes, teaching them how to trick in LA, and using the money for a political campaign.... So here's me, listening to this: Right... Right... Right... Am I on Candid Camera? OK, I have some real work to do here, can you please quit wasting my time? No, I mean it, quit fuckin' with me, or I'm gonna call my cousin Reggie and he's gonna come beat your stupid ass.

_____ My cousin Reggie is fuckin mean when he wants to be. Serious. Does Patterico either expect that anyone would really respond to those kind of outlandish statements in some other manner than "pull the other one"?? It's a fucking Python script is what it is. ...this has got to be complete bullshit. And he's really an Assistant DA?

COMMENT #17 [Permalink]

... Patterico said on 3/3/2010 @ 12:35 am PT...





You haven't listened to the full unedited audio of San Bernardino like I have, Ernie, so your recitation of the "facts" is necessarily wanting and misleading. That woman was in the shit up to her neck. But I thought we were discussing whether O'Keefe played the role of a pimp. Are you seriously denying that in San Bernardino (now that you realize where we're talking about) O'Keefe didn't say that he was setting up a house for underage girls to turn tricks and give him the money for his campaign? And Soul Rebel: Huh?

COMMENT #18 [Permalink]

... Soul Rebel said on 3/3/2010 @ 12:53 am PT...





Patterico, don't strain your Broca & Wernicke. I'm in my head, and you're not. And that's a good thing.

COMMENT #19 [Permalink]

... Billy said on 3/3/2010 @ 6:33 am PT...





Why do people put significance to transcripts of a video whose audio is known to have been edited by a racist with a vendetta against ACORN? This is like taking a Chimp's word about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.

COMMENT #20 [Permalink]

... Big Dan said on 3/3/2010 @ 7:32 am PT...





St. Patty's Day: Maybe O'Keefe and Breitbart can "sting" the Salvation Army next. They help poor people!

COMMENT #21 [Permalink]

... Mitch said on 3/3/2010 @ 7:33 am PT...





Soul Rebel @16, Ditto and amen. The whole purpose of ACORN is to help all those who come in the door. To troll for a worker who doesn't immediately toss out a pair of nutcases, and then use their befuddled politeness to attempt to discredit the organization is a clear hit job. I wish there were video and audio of what the people at ACORN said to themselves as soon as Breitbart's rent-a-thugs left.

COMMENT #22 [Permalink]

... Big Dan said on 3/3/2010 @ 7:34 am PT...





Let it go, Patty! The right guy is going to jail and the right people were exonerated.

COMMENT #23 [Permalink]

... Mitch said on 3/3/2010 @ 7:35 am PT...





Oh, forgot to send out this message to Tom Tomorrow: thanks, but don't you think the weasel looks more respectable than Clark Hoyt?

COMMENT #24 [Permalink]

... Big Dan said on 3/3/2010 @ 7:35 am PT...





Patty: the authorities listened to the whole unedited tapes and that's what exonerated ACORN.

COMMENT #25 [Permalink]

... Big Dan said on 3/3/2010 @ 7:39 am PT...





Breaking news! O'Keefe performed a "sting" on the Salvation Army dressed as a Hobo while out on parole! (just kidding)

COMMENT #26 [Permalink]

... Weaseldog said on 3/3/2010 @ 7:48 am PT...





I sent Hoyt a commiserating email. I pointed out that what you Brad, fail to understand is that a newspaper is a business. The purpose of a business is to make money.

A newspaper makes money by selling advertising space.

It does this by attracting readers.

It attracts readers by providing entertainment.

And that's what news is, it's entertainment. It's all about the money.

If facts and truth get in the way of making money, they must be discarded. I pointed out how in the months leading up to the Iraq war, the NYT posted a lot of fake, false and misleading news stories to sell papers and promote the war. Because they knew if they could help make the case for war and help start it, they could see a big increase in newspaper sales and profits. For the NYT, Money is God. It's everything. Truth and integrity aren't worth the paper they are printed on. I haven't received a reply.

COMMENT #27 [Permalink]

... Mitch said on 3/3/2010 @ 8:12 am PT...





Ah, weaseldog, Clark Hoyt doesn't make money from the advertisements. He makes money from his friends. But you're completely right about the relationship between the Times and integrity.

COMMENT #28 [Permalink]

... Weaseldog said on 3/3/2010 @ 8:26 am PT...





Mitch, you're making an unsavory insinuation, that I rather agree with in this case.

COMMENT #29 [Permalink]

... Jeannie Dean said on 3/3/2010 @ 8:37 am PT...





Billy @ #19 ~ Excellent question. Has anyone who has seen the raw video corroborated the authenticity of these released transcripts? Because all I've heard is that of those who HAVE, the conclusion is that the video is over-dubbed and blatantly edited to favor the false narrative O'Keefe was seeking to suit his purposes. Am I missing something? Or are we parsing the words of liars who can't stop accusing everyone else of lying?

COMMENT #30 [Permalink]

... Mitch said on 3/3/2010 @ 8:40 am PT...





"Unsavory," weaseldog, you've cut me to the quick. I'm only proposing that Mr. Hoyt is an American success story in the style of various Supreme Court justices, Senators, Representatives, business titans, etc... "Unsavory" indeed. Humphh.

COMMENT #31 [Permalink]

... Brad Friedman said on 3/3/2010 @ 8:57 am PT...





Jeannie Dean @ 29: Has anyone who has seen the raw video corroborated the authenticity of these released transcripts?

...

Am I missing something? Or are we parsing the words of liars who can't stop accusing everyone else of lying? You're not. And we are. Facts are, neither the text transcripts nor the so-caled "unedited audio" have been authenticated by anyone to my knowledge. Folks seem prepared to simply take the word of known propagandists and liars, an accused felon, someone who was willing to doctor video tape (and someone who has been accused of doctoring transcripts in the past) on all of the above. One would think Patrick "Patterico" Frey, as a Deputy D.A. would know better, and wouldn't allow him to be played for a chump by Brietbart and O'Keefe, but he hasn't minded in the past, amusingly enough. And he obviously is not interested in the rule of law, or government waste or even child prostitution, but rather a partisan agenda worth lying about if he has to. What you can be assured, however, is that there is likely nothing more damaging in the actual text transcripts and/or actual unedited audio then what Breitbart/O'Keefe have already deceptively presented. And, there just ain't much there, as anyone who actually bothers to look at it can attest. Ernie has been right on the money in his replies here to Patty, but Patty ain't interested in facts and stuff. In fact, he twittered last night rather amusingly: Patterico | I am having a good time owning the commenters at @TheBradBlog. If I so myself, it's a slaughter. http://bit.ly/aM3Luf These folks have really created for themselves a world of delusion, where if they say it, it must be true and they'll all just agree to agree to that. If you've not noticed, that seems to be the entirety of the Right these days. From "Death Panels" to "reconciliation has never been used for health care reform" to "ACORN stole the election for Barack Obama". It's all both sad and damned dangerous since the pathetic Left could use some actual *legitimate* opposition! Instead, they get Patty and friends who just make stuff up and convince themselves it has something to do with reality. The Left gets away with failure and murder, as the Right dithers and breaks the entire system by refusing to act in good faith. We all end up losing --- big time --- in the bargain. Those who can least afford the perfidy, of course --- like those who will no longer be helped by ACORN, or those who have no health care, or those who are forced to fight in unnecessary wars, or drown in the waters of Katrina --- are, as usual, the first and worst victims of this madness.

COMMENT #32 [Permalink]

... Weaseldog said on 3/3/2010 @ 8:57 am PT...





Jeannie Dean, I haven't seen the original uncut videos. I did try to watch one of the publically released videos. I assume that I was watching one of them as O'Keefe released it. It was badly overdubbed and narrated. In only a few minutes it was clear to me that it was a bad hatchet job. If ACORN had really done as O'Keefe alleged, then the over dubbing and explanations to stretch the point would've been unnecessary.

COMMENT #33 [Permalink]

... mr.ed said on 3/3/2010 @ 8:59 am PT...





You can take Hoyt out of the South, but you can't take the South out of Hoyt.

COMMENT #34 [Permalink]

... CharlieL said on 3/3/2010 @ 12:34 pm PT...





@BradFriedman #31 and remember that the right wing spin macine agenda in a situation like this is to swamp the information stream with crap, so the truth will be blurred and buried within the mass of conflicting confusion. Remember how they handled the AWOL memos and Dan Rather. A bunch of BS was thrown out there that obliterated the real truth --- that GWB was AWOL and a privileged son who got special treatment and entry into the champaign unit. They make it about side issues, about process, or about semantics, and the TRUTH is obscured. In this specific case, a RWNJ went after a very important and legitimate organization that has done massive service to the poor (who are, by coincidence of class, Democratic voters predominantly, WHEN they vote at all) and the New York Times, other MSM, and the U.S. Congress hypocritically (see BF's reference to Xo/Blackwater crimes) killed the organization with an illegal act against them. The truth is the truth, and right wing nut jobs should be forced to make their arguments on THEIR blogs, not ours. It's not about censorship, it's about STANDARDS OF BEHAVIOR and TRUTH.

COMMENT #35 [Permalink]

... JPP said on 3/3/2010 @ 2:24 pm PT...





The NYT Senior Editor for Standards, Greg Brock, offered: "If there is a correction to be made, it seems it would start with Mr. O'Keefe himself. We believe him." That's the NYT we come to know and loathe: haven for criminals, would be criminals, wannabe criminals and protectors of criminals. Whatever would we do without this bastion of the "elite liberal media"?

COMMENT #36 [Permalink]

... karlof1 said on 3/3/2010 @ 4:17 pm PT...





Brad @31--"The Left gets away with failure and murder..." I assume you mean the Democrat Party, which is certainly not "The Left." Within my historical knowledge, the best The Left was able to attain in terms of political power within the United States was the "Sewer Socialism" government of Milwaukee and its long series of Socialist mayors that ended in 1960. The USA has never had a Left president.

COMMENT #37 [Permalink]

... Ernest A. Canning said on 3/3/2010 @ 6:21 pm PT...





Re Patterico #17 Trying to debate this Deputy DA from LA is like trying to nail Jello to the wall. For those interested, see my comment that I posted elsewhere. Patterico, aka Patrick Frey, knows full well that I challenged him after he reneged on a promise to pay Buehlert $100 if it could be proven that O'Keefe did not represent himself to be a pimp at the Baltimore ACORN. The transcripts of that sting prove that O'Keefe did not "pose as a pimp" at the Baltimore ACORN, so Frey, like shifting sand, scrolls over to the Brooklyn ACORN housing sting on one thread and the San Bernardino sting on another. I will soon be posting an article which examines the hard-right ACORN smear machine, in all its ugliness, and places this latest "sting" within the right wing noise machine's totalitarian assault on democracy. Stay tuned. In the mean time, after perusing the linked comment, I suspect that any fair-minded person will reach the conclusion that our Patterico has no credibility whatsoever.

COMMENT #38 [Permalink]

... nelson davis said on 3/3/2010 @ 6:30 pm PT...





Hey, the Senior@NYTimes.com address bounces back, user unknown. I just canceled my subscription (after 40 years). [Ed Note: The correct address for Greg Brock is SeniorEditor@NYTimes.com. My typo in listing it as Senior@... Have corrected it above. - BF]

COMMENT #39 [Permalink]

... T.R.O. said on 3/4/2010 @ 7:35 am PT...





Speaking of what's ethical, isn't there a unethical conflict of interest with Patterico, an attorney-a Deputy D.A. , openly defending O'Keefe?

COMMENT #40 [Permalink]

... Joe said on 3/4/2010 @ 12:16 pm PT...





George Bush got high on coke and flew planes for the National Guard. Geez people, that doesn't mean he did them at the same time! Isn't that obvious? (not to me...)

COMMENT #41 [Permalink]

... Mitch said on 3/4/2010 @ 2:28 pm PT...





Joe @40, I understand the point you're making, but this may not be the best example. You're looking for an example where both sides of the "AND" probably didn't happen simultaneously. How's this: Clark Hoyt finished off his once-great newspaper AND Judith Miller thanked him for the help.

COMMENT #42 [Permalink]

... Patterico said on 3/4/2010 @ 7:07 pm PT...





Patterico, aka Patrick Frey, knows full well that I challenged him after he reneged on a promise to pay Buehlert $100 if it could be proven that O'Keefe did not represent himself to be a pimp at the Baltimore ACORN. I reneged on nothing because I never made any such promise. And you know this because I already told you.

COMMENT #43 [Permalink]

... Brad Friedman said on 3/4/2010 @ 7:20 pm PT...

