Shalane Flanagan, who ran 2:21:14 at the Berlin Marathon in October to become the second-fastest female American marathoner in history, has made no secret of her desire to win the Boston Marathon, the race she watched as a girl while growing up in nearby Marblehead, Massachusetts.

That goal has eluded her in two attempts: In 2013, Flanagan finished fourth at Boston and this year, she was seventh, in 2:22:02—a three-and-a-half-minute PR and a time that would have won the previous 11 Boston Marathons.

On Oct. 31, Flanagan learned, along with everyone else, that Rita Jeptoo, winner of the last two Boston and Chicago marathons, had failed an out-of-competition drug test.

On Thursday, Flanagan spoke to Running Times about her reaction to the Jeptoo news as well as German media reports this week that alleged widespread doping in Russia and a cover-up of positive tests by the IAAF, the sport’s governing body.

Running Times: It seems like this week the news keeps getting worse.

Shalane Flanagan: Sometimes it’s actually like a relief to, in a way, validate some feelings that I have and the fact that my dreams are valid. When I say I want to win the Boston Marathon, it is a valid dream. Last year I felt so defeated. I really thought it was a tangible goal…I felt like [Jeptoo] totally made me look silly.

It makes me feel validated that I’m not unrealistic with the goals I have for myself. I may not attain them all the time. But they’re valid, realistic dreams. So I think in a way, it’s good news. Yes, it’s super bad for the sport. In a sense, it’s a growing pain. In the end, I hope it’s growth.

RT: When you first heard the news about Jeptoo, what was your reaction?

SF: It was just upsetting to me, because last year was a really special year, an exceptionally special year for our running community and for the running world. She had alluded to the fact that she had thought about not coming back, she was scared to come back to Boston [because of the bombings]. Granted, we don’t know that at Boston she doped. The sample is obviously a little bit further away from the Boston performance. However, it seems like there’s incriminating evidence that it’s been for a few years now.

But you know when I heard about her specifically it made me think obviously back to Boston because I literally catered my whole race around that woman. And I literally thought about her day and night, thinking, “How do I beat her?” Because I had raced her the year before and I saw how devastating she can be over her last 5K. And I thought I have to change my whole race scenario.

I took multiple trips out to the Boston course to prepare to try to beat her and put my best foot forward. And I maybe sacrificed a lot being away from family, doing various things to try to beat her. It seems somewhat in vain by only getting seventh place.

I looked at her literally as a stealer of a moment and a really special moment. It’s one that can never be given back. I look at all dopers, and I don’t even look at the money. Yes, they steal money. But they’re stealers of dreams and stealers of moments.

Fortunately, I find value beyond the end result. I find value in the process and the people that I meet and the experiences I have. But at the end of the day, those moments are never given back. There’s only that one chance to stand on the podium, there’s only chance really to wear that wreath around your head. Those moments can’t be given back. Yes, you can be handed the medal later on, but the moment is gone. It has passed. Those moments aren’t only gifts to the athletes. They’re gifts to the families and the support system.

RT: So she’s not just taking from your potentially but from Steve, your husband, and from your dad and your mom.

SF: Oh yeah, everyone made sacrifices to help me. My dad came out and helped with every single workout I did on the Boston course. Drove me around, he was like my little Sherpa. Honestly we had a lot of joy and a lot of great memories from that. But how nice would it be to have those tough moments and the winter giving all these crazy workouts, and to have it come to fruition, to see all the steps along the way and see us all put in our time and do the same things over and over and have it become this great moment? That was taken away.

Like I said, she said she even thought about not coming back. She was scared to come back to Boston because of the bombings. That was another thorn in my side. I was adamant, I was the first athlete to say I was coming back. So to have her be wishy-washy and to have stolen that kind of a day and that kind of a moment is just undeserving. I realize her “B” sample has yet to come back to support the “A,” so this is based on one test and various other allegations by her husband. It seems like it has been going on for a few years, based on the other allegations.

RT: Are you following the stories coming out from Germany, all the positive tests of Russian athletes and a cover-up?

SF: Yeah, to a degree. I haven’t dived into every detail. I’ve heard about the IAAF. I’m well aware that there’s been an undercover investigation.

RT: Do you ever just think that the Olympics aren’t going to be that relevant anymore and the World Marathon Majors, where they have the money for testing, are where you want to devote your energies?

SF: I actually said that to Jerry [Schumacher, her coach]. I’m actually in one of the better-monitored stages with the World Marathon Majors, because they’re kind of their own entity in a way. In this case, it seems like they’re going to take a much more harsh and active stance. I feel like, oh, thank God, I have people on my side to back me up and validate.

But I think it’s because there’s more money involved. Therefore they want to make sure they don’t hand off a check to the wrong person. I feel fortunate that I’m in the marathon world, to a degree, because there’s going to be a more active stance. There’s still been some women who have gone through the system and escaped it to a degree for a while. The Olympics are going to be a little…I don’t know, shakier, I guess.

RT: Do you ever feel like your Olympic bronze medal [in the 10,000m in 2008] should have been silver?

SF: I think there are races where I should have placed higher. I feel like the insiders, the athletes, have a pulse for what’s real and what’s not. Maybe the general public doesn’t necessarily pay attention to it as much, but I think the athletes have a good eye and scope for what’s unbelievable and unreal versus what’s tangible and progressive running.

RT: When you saw Jeptoo run that last 2K of the Boston Marathon within 2 seconds of Meb’s last 2K, were you skeptical right then and there?

SF: I always give my competition the benefit of the doubt. I was somewhat devastated, like “God, I can’t believe I was that far off. That’s unbelievable.” And my husband said, “You know, Shalane, a lot of people can beat you. There’s no doubt about it. But people shouldn’t make you look silly.” He’s like, “Jeptoo kind of made you look silly over the last bit of that race.” She took my race and just shoved it down my throat.

That was the one thing that my husband said and I always remember: “It’s hard to make you look silly and she made you look silly.” I’ll leave it at that. He couldn’t believe it. And he’s like, “I know how hard you trained, how well you prepared.”

She’s a deciding factor in races. Everyone sits and waits and watches what she does. If she hadn’t followed me in Boston off the gun, who knows? I could have stolen the race, and pulled away. Because everyone follows her lead and knows she’s unbelievable, people follow and do exactly what she does. Had she hung back it could have been a completely different race.

RT: Do you talk about this with Jerry on a daily basis?

SF: Yeah, I mean, we all hear news, we all find it and pass articles along. I think it’s important to be aware and knowledgeable about our sport. We don’t want to be ignorant of what’s going on.

We try not to harp on it. We try to just put our heads down and work hard and he always says, “You don’t know, Shalane, when your opportunity, when your moment is going to come.” We just work hard, knowing that the moment is there somewhere, we just can’t plan for it. Every time you go to race you have to be prepared because you never know. You never know when medals are going to be rearranged. With Meb getting fourth in the Olympics? Who knows, in a year or two he could be handed the bronze.

You just put your head down. You may even beat someone who is cheating. It’s conceivable. If they mess up on the day, you could beat someone who is doping. It’s not just for the upper echelon of athletes. I’m willing to contend that there’s actually some middle-level athletes who dope just to be able to be on the team. It’s not exclusive to the big names, I don’t believe.

RT: What’s your typical drug testing routine? How often are they knocking on your door?

SF: I’m one of the most tested female athletes, actually. So, my husband and I always laugh. I’m always around. I’m always available. They can always find me. They can come test me at any given time. I have to let them know every time I travel even if I’m going to spend the night at my friend’s house. I’ve gone camping and I’ve had to give coordinates, like longitude and latitude of where I’m going. I’m accounted for 24 hours a day, seven days a week, 365 days a year.

RT: How does that work exactly? Do you send them an email?

SF: You have to go on the USADA website and update your change of plans. I’ve been in the middle of going out to dinner with girlfriends and going back to a house to give a blood sample and urine sample. There’s been some really inopportune times when they show up. I’ll be entertaining and have a bunch of friends over. Birthday parties. They can show up whenever they want. I’ve had them follow me to the airport to get a sample because I was leaving for a flight for Europe.

RT: Are they the same people every time?

SF: Oh yeah. They know my cat. They know everything. They know me very well.

RT: Yet in other countries, people have never been tested.

SF: I didn’t really realize that. I was under the impression that every country has this kind of rigorous protocol. But, come to find out, who knows if our protocol is legitimate in terms of people taking bribes? With that going on in various countries already, who knows? It’s kind of disturbing.

It makes sense, certain parts of the world don’t have the funding and money to do it. In Africa, if you have to export urine out, there has to be a cooling, it can’t be overheated and it has to get to the lab really quick. That’s a lot of money to get in and out of certain rural areas to do it. I understand why it hasn’t been a prevalent process.

RT: Is there anything you wish fans understood?

SF: It’s so tough. I think it’s frustrating because fans always want to believe the best in people. Sometimes you have to look back and look at athletes’ progressions. And yeah, we all have a few moments when you have these breakthrough races. They’re very real and they’re super special. But I think you truly look at some athletes and the progression, if something looks unbelievable, truly unbelievable, unfortunately it probably is. That’s the saddest part about it. There’s usually some consistency to back it up and there’s a nice progression timeline.

RT: Have you shed tears over this?

SF: No, I get mad. I’ve felt exceptionally motivated to get out and run. It’s almost more motivating to me to showcase the truth, so no. No tears.

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