New York City’s Rudy Giuliani and MSNBC contributor Michael Eric Dyson traded hot barbs during a televised interview about the roots of crime in black communities, with the former mayor ultimately blasting that if blacks didn’t commit so many crimes, the police presence in their communities wouldn’t be so heavy.

The discussion centered around the question: How do you make a police force look like the community it serves in terms of racial diversity?

Mr. Giuliani — who has been largely credited with reducing crime stats in New York City during his tenure — said that the few cities with majority black populations and majority white police forces, like Ferguson, were exceptions.

The bigger story, he said, is that “93 percent of blacks in America are killed by other blacks,” the video posted on Mediaite showed.

MSNBC’s Mr. Dyson argued: “First of all, most black people who commit crimes against other black people go to jail. Number two, they are not sworn by the police department as agents of the state to uphold the law. … White people who are policemen who kill black people do not go to jail.”

Mr. Giuliani then said that cities try to achieve a racially diverse police force — but that’s not the reason for the crime statistics that plague black communities.

“[Black on black] crime is the reason for the heavy police presence in the black community,” he said, Mediaite reported. “Why don’t you cut it down so so many white police officers don’t have to be in black areas? … The white police officers wouldn’t be there if you weren’t killing each other.”

Mr. Dyson fired back: “This is the defensive mechanism of white supremacy in your mind,” the video showed.

Sign up for Daily Newsletters Manage Newsletters

Copyright © 2020 The Washington Times, LLC. Click here for reprint permission.