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DonatorHero MemberActivity: 792Merit: 510support@myrig.com Re: DragonMint 16TH/S halongmining.com March 07, 2018, 02:41:50 PM #1441



Getting more and more request to list lower value than it was paid for, our answer to this is "NO" Commercial Invoice will have the price each customer actually paid for and no we CAN NOT list lower value to help you lower your import duty or fees. I'm sorry for being so BLUNT on this but this is what it is.





https://twitter.com/HalongMining/status/971295384491515904



DragonMint Bitcoin miners have AsicBoost inside!



Understand this is overt asicboost protected by the open defensive patent license meaning anyone can use it, and is not harmful to the network unlike covert. Ckpool and slush have support for this as it requires explicit poolside support, new stratum extensions, and cgminer needs to be modified to work with it.



https://blockchaindpl.org/

https://www.emergingtechlaw.org/analysis/creating-the-blockchain-defensive-patent-license420182

https://www.asicboost.com/single-post/2018/03/01/opening-asicboost-for-defensive-use/

https://blog.bitmex.com/defensive-patent-licence/

https://blog.bitmex.com/graphical-illustration-of-a-bitcoin-block/

https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/there-bitcoin-patent-war-going-initiative-could-end-it/

https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/slush-pool-now-compatible-asicboost-miners/

http://stratumprotocol.org/



https://halongmining.com/shop/dragonmint-16t-miner/

https://halongmining.com/shop/dragonmint-b29-blake256-miner/

*More Coming!



P.S: Thank you guys for a time to time entertaining speculations for the last few months! Very encouraging to the least, leading all negativities to be honest!



" Random Acts of Kindness "

If you feel shamed of all bashing or negativities here, May be when you stop by at your favorite coffee shop, pay for the guy behind you, or may be buy a care bag for a local homeless person with socks, wet tissues, some hygiene materials and some candies, or donate a backpack full of pencils to local schools, something happy and kind and pay it forward!

More News coming once all necessary steps are taken! Stay tuned and Happy Hashing!Getting more and more request to list lower value than it was paid for, our answer to this is "NO" Commercial Invoice will have the price each customer actually paid for and no we CAN NOT list lower value to help you lower your import duty or fees. I'm sorry for being so BLUNT on this but this is what it is.DragonMint Bitcoin miners have AsicBoost inside!Understand this is overt asicboost protected by the open defensive patent license meaning anyone can use it, and is not harmful to the network unlike covert. Ckpool and slush have support for this as it requires explicit poolside support, new stratum extensions, and cgminer needs to be modified to work with it.*More Coming!P.S: Thank you guys for a time to time entertaining speculations for the last few months! Very encouraging to the least, leading all negativities to be honest!If you feel shamed of all bashing or negativities here, May be when you stop by at your favorite coffee shop, pay for the guy behind you, or may be buy a care bag for a local homeless person with socks, wet tissues, some hygiene materials and some candies, or donate a backpack full of pencils to local schools, something happy and kind and pay it forward! support@myrig.com T: @MyRig_com

Return Address: MyRig 3700 Quebec Street, Unit 100-239, Denver, Colorado 80207, USA Antminer & DragonMint Repair E-mail:T: @MyRig_comReturn Address: MyRig 3700 Quebec Street, Unit 100-239, Denver, Colorado 80207, USA

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Hero MemberActivity: 756Merit: 560 Re: DragonMint 16TH/S halongmining.com March 07, 2018, 04:20:09 PM #1445 Halong still could have given out much more information and just not revealed the ASICboost thing until now without shrouding themselves in so much secrecy. I dont see this as good reasoning to act the way the company did overall. Stop buying industrial miners, running them at home, and then complaining about the noise.

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Hero MemberActivity: 655Merit: 500You wan chili saus? Re: DragonMint 16TH/S halongmining.com March 07, 2018, 05:49:50 PM

Last edit: March 07, 2018, 06:03:48 PM by kebabman #1446 Quote from: Rodderman on March 07, 2018, 02:51:21 PM What does this Asic boost accomplish and what is it?



A method to get 20% better mining performance from ASICs, there are two implementations, covert, which it's been rumored Bitmain have been using on the sly with their own miners to get an advantage over everyone else (and is part of the reason they tried to block SegWit as it doesn't work with SegWit) and also isnt great for the network as it encourages small block size bias, and overt, which Halong are using. Overt requires pool-side support but supports SegWit and has no block size bias.



You can read the whitepaper here:



Some unsubstantiated but credible claims against Bitmain regarding covert AsicBoost:



Kudos to the inventors, super clever stuff. All this makes me hope even more that Halong is legit and will succeed in sticking it to Bitmain. A method to get 20% better mining performance from ASICs, there are two implementations, covert, which it's been rumored Bitmain have been using on the sly with their own miners to get an advantage over everyone else (and is part of the reason they tried to block SegWit as it doesn't work with SegWit) and also isnt great for the network as it encourages small block size bias, and overt, which Halong are using. Overt requires pool-side support but supports SegWit and has no block size bias.You can read the whitepaper here: https://www.asicboost.com/ Some unsubstantiated but credible claims against Bitmain regarding covert AsicBoost: https://www.coindesk.com/bitcoins-new-controversy-asicboost-allegations-explained/ Kudos to the inventors, super clever stuff. All this makes me hope even more that Halong is legit and will succeed in sticking it to Bitmain.

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MemberActivity: 213Merit: 12 Re: DragonMint 16TH/S halongmining.com March 07, 2018, 06:19:44 PM #1447 Quote from: HagssFIN on March 07, 2018, 04:14:07 PM my apologies for my suspicions, I hope you understand my concerns earlier. We have now reached more open environment around the DragonMint and after Phil gets one for review, even more info is to come.



Matti



I never meant anything bad with my criticism, I was just worried because we've seen many bad cases during Bitcoin mining history. Sofor my suspicions, I hope you understand my concerns earlier. We have now reached more open environment around the DragonMint and after Phil gets one for review, even more info is to come.Matti

I don't even think you need to apologize for your suspicions man. They brought a lot of it on themselves. Despite the secrecy, they came off very cocky and uncaring... which fosters more suspicion.



The one thing I've learned in my short time here is that you have to realize what folks here have been through. Some of the paranoia comes off very harsh and unfounded, until you take a step back and look at all the crazy stuff the folks in the community have been through. Halong, at the barest of minimums, hasn't been very sensitive to that. At least until now.



I'm just happy to see it come to fruition. As has been said so many times here... if its real... the competition is much needed, and I think in the end everyone wins with another serious ASIC player in the marketplace. I don't even think you need to apologize for your suspicions man. They brought a lot of it on themselves. Despite the secrecy, they came off very cocky and uncaring... which fosters more suspicion.The one thing I've learned in my short time here is that you have to realize what folks here have been through. Some of the paranoia comes off very harsh and unfounded, until you take a step back and look at all the crazy stuff the folks in the community have been through. Halong, at the barest of minimums, hasn't been very sensitive to that. At least until now.I'm just happy to see it come to fruition. As has been said so many times here... if its real... the competition is much needed, and I think in the end everyone wins with another serious ASIC player in the marketplace.

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Jr. MemberActivity: 40Merit: 120 Re: DragonMint 16TH/S halongmining.com March 07, 2018, 07:18:10 PM Merited by frodocooper (5) #1449 Quote from: HagssFIN on March 07, 2018, 04:14:07 PM I never meant anything bad with my criticism, I was just worried because we've seen many bad cases during Bitcoin mining history. So my apologies for my suspicions, I hope you understand my concerns earlier. [....]



HaggsFIN, you have nothing for which to apologize. Your skepticism and criticism have been reasonable. On the other hand, Halong Mining's treatment of its customers has been unacceptable, and no one has yet to receive a functioning DragonMint. While I am cautiously optimistic to see today's postings from Halong Mining and -ck and find this information encouraging (-ck's credibility is impeccable), Halong Mining has still left many critical questions unanswered, which are documented in Unicornflex's post. (See



Hypothetically, if a valid reason arises, such as Halong fails to deliver the DragonMint to its purchasers, or if the DragonMint has a design defect that makes it unsafe to use, do we, the purchasers of the DragonMint, have enough information to hail Halong Mining into court to answer? The answer is clearly no. Halong Mining has refused to disclose any information about its jurisdiction of operation and its incorporation, even basic information such as its physical address or mailing address. I'm sorry, people, but you can't sue an email address or a domain name. Does this lack of basic information bother anyone else? It should. You need this information if you need to seek a legal remedy. Do we know the name of anyone who is employed by Halong Mining, such as management or any engineers? No. If we had such information, we could evaluate their record for honesty and safety. -ck is the sole shining star affiliated with the DragonMint, and -ck's posts are the only bits of information that give me any reason for optimism, but let's be clear: -ck has stated that he is not employed by Halong Mining; he has stated that he has a contract with MyRig. (See



Let's say, once again, hypothetically, that a design defect in the DragonMint causes them to fail prematurely, or that the DragonMint poses an unacceptable fire risk. (We've seen serious fire risks with extremely low wattage iPhones, which use about 1 kWh per year, and which are manufactured and designed by Apple, one of the best and most reliable companies that has ever built electronics. It does not strain the imagination that we could see a fire risk with a DragonMint (a 1480W device), which is manufactured and designed by anonymous engineers under the supervision of anonymous management. The lack of accountability is disturbing to me. Does it disturb anyone else? Anyone who is considering placing a new order from Halong Mining should heed these facts. HaggsFIN, you have nothing for which to apologize. Your skepticism and criticism have been reasonable. On the other hand, Halong Mining's treatment of its customers has been unacceptable, and no one has yet to receive a functioning DragonMint. While I am cautiously optimistic to see today's postings from Halong Mining and -ck and find this information encouraging (-ck's credibility is impeccable), Halong Mining has still left manyunanswered, which are documented in Unicornflex's post. (See https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2443327.msg29757421#msg29757421 .)Hypothetically, if a valid reason arises, such as Halong fails to deliver the DragonMint to its purchasers, or if the DragonMint has a design defect that makes it unsafe to use, do we, the purchasers of the DragonMint, have enough information to hail Halong Mining into court to answer? The answer is clearly. Halong Mining has refused to discloseabout its jurisdiction of operation and its incorporation, even basic information such as its physical address or mailing address. I'm sorry, people, but you can't sue an email address or a domain name. Does this lack of basic information bother anyone else? It should. You need this information if you need to seek a legal remedy. Do we know the name of anyone who isby Halong Mining, such as management or any engineers? No. If we had such information, we could evaluate their record for honesty and safety. -ck is the sole shining star affiliated with the DragonMint, and -ck's posts are the only bits of information that give me any reason for optimism, but let's be clear: -ck has stated that he is not employed by Halong Mining; he has stated that he has a contract with MyRig. (See https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2443327.msg30859496#msg30859496 .) MyRig purports to be a Colorado corporation, but it isn't. (See https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2443327.msg30805144#msg30805144 .) Halong Mining and MyRig do not operate in the manner in which credible companies operate. Credible companies provide a path in which they can be held accountable for their actions. Delivering a product is not enough to make a company credible.Let's say, once again,, that a design defect in the DragonMint causes them to fail prematurely, or that the DragonMint poses an unacceptable fire risk. (We've seen serious fire risks with extremely low wattage iPhones, which use about 1 kWh per year, and which are manufactured and designed by Apple, one of the best and most reliable companies that has ever built electronics. It does not strain the imagination that we could see a fire risk with a DragonMint (a 1480W device), which is manufactured and designed by anonymous engineers under the supervision of anonymous management. The lack of accountability is disturbing to me. Does it disturb anyone else? Anyone who is considering placing a new order from Halong Mining should heed these facts.

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Hero MemberActivity: 655Merit: 500You wan chili saus? Re: DragonMint 16TH/S halongmining.com March 07, 2018, 08:06:57 PM #1453 Quote from: Albortz on March 07, 2018, 08:02:04 PM Ok so I am really lost.





When Bitmain used AsicBoost, everyone and their grandma was angry and upset and Evil Evil Bitmain was shouted...





Why are we celebrating AB now? I really dont get it lol





Makes no sense to me, to suddenly praise something we hated, just because its Not Bitmain for once :/









Read the article in my reply I posted above, Bitcoin was (allegedly) using covert AsicBoost which is 'bad' for the network and shady (so surprising Bitmain would be shady) without the permission of the original patent holders (Little Dragon). Since then AsicBoost became part of the BPDL(overt AsibBoost and Halong is using overt AsicBoost, which is not bad for the network, but requires pool support (currently slush and ck pool that I know of).



https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/halong-mining-first-bitcoin-mining-hardware-producer-implement-overt-asicboost/



Read the article in my reply I posted above, Bitcoin was (allegedly) usingAsicBoost which is 'bad' for the network and shady (so surprising Bitmain would be shady) without the permission of the original patent holders (Little Dragon). Since then AsicBoost became part of the BPDL( https://blockchaindpl.org/ ) asAsibBoost and Halong is usingAsicBoost, which is not bad for the network, but requires pool support (currently slush and ck pool that I know of).

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LegendaryActivity: 3234Merit: 1353Ruu \o/ Re: DragonMint 16TH/S halongmining.com March 07, 2018, 08:08:22 PM #1454 Quote from: Albortz on March 07, 2018, 08:02:04 PM Ok so I am really lost.





When Bitmain used AsicBoost, everyone and their grandma was angry and upset and Evil Evil Bitmain was shouted...





Why are we celebrating AB now? I really dont get it lol





Makes no sense to me, to suddenly praise something we hated, just because its Not Bitmain for once :/

Bitmain had it hidden from the public and had the patent for it meaning no one else could use the technology giving them an unfair advantage. The halong group paid dearly for the patent to buy it and then opened it up with the blockchain defensive patent license - this license means anyone can use the asicboost technology provided they don't patent anything else in their hardware. Think about it - they paid for the license, only to open it up for everyone. No one has an unfair technology advantage now. Bitmain had it hidden from the public and had the patent for it meaning no one else could use the technology giving them an unfair advantage. The halong group paid dearly for the patent to buy it and then opened it up with the blockchain defensive patent license - this license meanscan use the asicboost technology provided they don't patent anything else in their hardware. Think about it - they paid for the license, only to open it up for everyone. No one has an unfair technology advantage now. Developer/maintainer for cgminer, ckpool/ckproxy, and the -ck kernel

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Hero MemberActivity: 655Merit: 500You wan chili saus? Re: DragonMint 16TH/S halongmining.com March 07, 2018, 08:10:38 PM #1455 Quote from: -ck on March 07, 2018, 08:08:22 PM Quote from: Albortz on March 07, 2018, 08:02:04 PM Ok so I am really lost.





When Bitmain used AsicBoost, everyone and their grandma was angry and upset and Evil Evil Bitmain was shouted...





Why are we celebrating AB now? I really dont get it lol





Makes no sense to me, to suddenly praise something we hated, just because its Not Bitmain for once :/

Bitmain had it hidden from the public and had the patent for it meaning no one else could use the technology giving them an unfair advantage. The halong group paid dearly for the patent to buy it and then opened it up with the blockchain defensive patent license - this license means anyone can use the asicboost technology provided they don't patent anything else in their hardware. Think about it - they paid for the license, only to open it up for everyone. No one has an unfair technology advantage now.

Bitmain had it hidden from the public and had the patent for it meaning no one else could use the technology giving them an unfair advantage. The halong group paid dearly for the patent to buy it and then opened it up with the blockchain defensive patent license - this license meanscan use the asicboost technology provided they don't patent anything else in their hardware. Think about it - they paid for the license, only to open it up for everyone. No one has an unfair technology advantage now.

I thought Bitmain only held the China patent and the original creators / US patent holders (Timo Hankeh and Sergio Lerner) were the ones that published it via the BDPL? I thought Bitmain only held the China patent and the original creators / US patent holders (Timo Hankeh and Sergio Lerner) were the ones that published it via the BDPL?

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Full MemberActivity: 462Merit: 118 Re: DragonMint 16TH/S halongmining.com March 07, 2018, 08:36:18 PM #1456 Quote from: vegascoinpool on March 07, 2018, 06:19:44 PM Quote from: HagssFIN on March 07, 2018, 04:14:07 PM my apologies for my suspicions, I hope you understand my concerns earlier. We have now reached more open environment around the DragonMint and after Phil gets one for review, even more info is to come.



Matti



I never meant anything bad with my criticism, I was just worried because we've seen many bad cases during Bitcoin mining history. Sofor my suspicions, I hope you understand my concerns earlier. We have now reached more open environment around the DragonMint and after Phil gets one for review, even more info is to come.Matti

I don't even think you need to apologize for your suspicions man. They brought a lot of it on themselves. Despite the secrecy, they came off very cocky and uncaring... which fosters more suspicion.



The one thing I've learned in my short time here is that you have to realize what folks here have been through. Some of the paranoia comes off very harsh and unfounded, until you take a step back and look at all the crazy stuff the folks in the community have been through. Halong, at the barest of minimums, hasn't been very sensitive to that. At least until now.



I'm just happy to see it come to fruition. As has been said so many times here... if its real... the competition is much needed, and I think in the end everyone wins with another serious ASIC player in the marketplace.

I don't even think you need to apologize for your suspicions man. They brought a lot of it on themselves. Despite the secrecy, they came off very cocky and uncaring... which fosters more suspicion.The one thing I've learned in my short time here is that you have to realize what folks here have been through. Some of the paranoia comes off very harsh and unfounded, until you take a step back and look at all the crazy stuff the folks in the community have been through. Halong, at the barest of minimums, hasn't been very sensitive to that. At least until now.I'm just happy to see it come to fruition. As has been said so many times here... if its real... the competition is much needed, and I think in the end everyone wins with another serious ASIC player in the marketplace.

Agreed that the way they function, the public naturally reacted as such. This has been a surprise. I dont think it matters too much though because there is major oversupply of asics now. Asics are not selling despite discount coupons. Breaking even is difficult even with low electricity cost for new miners. Dragonmint should have come in a year ago. Market timing can be everything at times. I guess we shall see how this goes. Agreed that the way they function, the public naturally reacted as such. This has been a surprise. I dont think it matters too much though because there is major oversupply of asics now. Asics are not selling despite discount coupons. Breaking even is difficult even with low electricity cost for new miners. Dragonmint should have come in a year ago. Market timing can be everything at times. I guess we shall see how this goes. Selling 100 dollar coupons (8units expire 11th June, 14 units expire 1st july) and 125 dollar coupon (2 unit exp 30th June). Selling at 20% of value

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Full MemberActivity: 462Merit: 118 Re: DragonMint 16TH/S halongmining.com March 07, 2018, 08:56:58 PM #1457 Quote from: polltroy on March 07, 2018, 08:41:03 PM Is really demand for miners low now? Last time I checked "instant" ROI for S9 is back to 180-200 days which seems to have been the standard for a long time except during the November to January period.



Does anyone have statistics of selling price and waiting time for S9 for the last year or so?



Ok lets see:



It used to be breakeven 3-4 months and waiting time 2 months. Breakeven can be abit longer because difficulty increase by the time u get the miner.



Rough calculations:

S9 with psu = 1915 x 1.10 (vat) = 2106 USD

Dragonmint with psu = 2844 x 1.1 (vat) = 3128 USD



Currently S9/Dragon makes 200/245 USD per month at 10 cents electric.

So breakeven for S9 is 10.53 months and dragon is 12.76 months.

This doesnt take into account setup costs and rental costs though.



Breakeven is faster if u gotten S9/Dragon it in the past at lower prices though.

The biggest issue is u have 6 months warranty only and difficulty has been rising alot faster than bitcoin price in the last year.



As always, this is a guide, do your own due dilligence. Ok lets see:It used to be breakeven 3-4 months and waiting time 2 months. Breakeven can be abit longer because difficulty increase by the time u get the miner.Rough calculations:S9 with psu = 1915 x 1.10 (vat) = 2106 USDDragonmint with psu = 2844 x 1.1 (vat) = 3128 USDCurrently S9/Dragon makes 200/245 USD per month at 10 cents electric.So breakeven for S9 is 10.53 months and dragon is 12.76 months.This doesnt take into account setup costs and rental costs though.Breakeven is faster if u gotten S9/Dragon it in the past at lower prices though.The biggest issue is u have 6 months warranty only and difficulty has been rising alot faster than bitcoin price in the last year.As always, this is a guide, do your own due dilligence. Selling 100 dollar coupons (8units expire 11th June, 14 units expire 1st july) and 125 dollar coupon (2 unit exp 30th June). Selling at 20% of value

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Hero MemberActivity: 655Merit: 500You wan chili saus? Re: DragonMint 16TH/S halongmining.com March 07, 2018, 09:17:38 PM #1459 Quote from: polltroy on March 07, 2018, 09:15:59 PM How to compare 16Th with Asicboost to a miner without Asicboost? Is 16Th with Asicboost equivalent to 16Th without Asicboost in terms of mining profit?



It's 16th with Asicboost, if you run it on a pool that doesn't support AsicBoost it performs much worse (1/4 speed I read). So basically forget about AsicBoost in comparing just know that this is a 16th miner that only works on pools that support AsicBoost vs the S9 which is a 13TH miner that works on any pool. It's 16th with Asicboost, if you run it on a pool that doesn't support AsicBoost it performs much worse (1/4 speed I read). So basically forget about AsicBoost in comparing just know that this is a 16th miner thatworks on pools that support AsicBoost vs the S9 which is a 13TH miner that works on any pool.