Kaye Toal: So I think it's fascinating that you're kind of writing fanfic about fanfic, or would you consider it the other way around? I.e. building a world that was originally built out for fanfic ... in a book about fandom. Is that experience strange, or did the world already exist to a large extent for you?

Rainbow Rowell: Hmmm. Well, when I started Fangirl, I knew I wanted to use the Simon Snow stuff as a way to talk about fandom and fan fiction, and specifically about Cath's fandom. How it fit into her life. What it meant to her. But I also wanted to feel like those characters — Simon, Baz, Penelope — were mine, and like the story itself could live on its own, not just as a metaphor for other stories. Am I making sense so far?

KT: Yes, absolutely.

RR: But in writing about Simon — through Cath at different ages and through [the author of the book in Fangirl] Gemma T. Leslie, I realized that I really wanted to write for myself. That I had a lot invested in him as a character, and that I had a lot invested in this type of story. The "chosen one" narrative. That is a story that I've always been a sucker for, as a reader and as a person, so I decided to try it, to see how I would tell Simon's story.

Carry On is a standalone book. You don't have to read Fangirl. I approached it as — I'm writing Simon's story now. And I'm not thinking about Cath or what he means to Cath. I'm taking what I created in Fangirl, and I'm telling it my way.

KT:I love that. I feel like that's actually a very fandom thing to do, as well, which feels appropriate — to take a story you love and tell it the way you want to tell it, though in fandom you're often taking characters and reinterpreting them.

RR: Right. I mean, Carry On for me is very much about all the fiction I've read and loved. I've always been a sci-fi and fantasy person. I'm still using Simon as a way to process my feelings about Luke Skywalker, Frodo, Arthur, and Harry Potter. And also probably Jesus.

KT: The actual story of Jesus, whether you take it as a myth or an allegory or what, really is fascinating.

RR: Yes! I'm not calling Jesus fiction. But I went to church three times a week as a kid, and I think that primed me for these sorts of stories. YOU ARE THE CHOSEN ONE. YOU MUST SAVE THE WORLD.

KT: Right! And the sacrifices asked of THE CHOSEN ONE are so huge.

RR: YES. And the chosen one always says, "OK. Seems legit."

KT: And yet feel so familiar, even if you as a person are never actually asked to, say, lay down your life for the good of your people.

RR: Well, I think we all sort of want to be chosen. Because being chosen means having a purpose. Being chosen gives your life meaning and clarity.

KT: And it makes pain so much more bearable, in some ways, whereas a teenager struggling with depression may find it hard to figure out whether their pain and their life has meaning.

RR: Absolutely! All thinking people struggle with, "My pain isn't random. It has a purpose. Good will come of it." Adults struggling with depression feel the same thing, with the added weight of feeling they should have it all figured out by now.

KT: Yeah, that's true. I've written pretty candidly about my experiences with that, and I think fandom for me — and for others, too — is part of trying to give their pain vicarious meaning through relating to these characters and writing them to be representative. Like, explicitly queering characters in fan fiction who are not explicitly queer in text — Draco, Remus, and Sirius, just as a few examples — seems like part of that, too.

RR: I think we've been using fiction and story to sort out our lives since always. When I was a teenager, fandom didn't exist in the same way. Like, I didn't know that word, "fandom." And "fan fiction" wasn't a concept I had. But I was still writing fanfiction in my head and on paper.

I think, when we love a story, we want to make it our own. We want to bring it inside ourselves. But, for me, most of the stories I loved were about white, straight men. And they were mostly stories without romantic love. So, I think, when we love a story like Sherlock or Lord of the Rings, it's natural to want to bring it into ourselves, and add the things we're longing for.