Sensei Irène Kaigetsu Kyojo Bakker discusses Dogen’s radical stance on sexual equality in the sangha in The Essential Dogen.

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…In general and in Zen as well, you know, Buddhist practice has mainly been felt by men, for men in a monastic setting. So monks would live in a monastery and it was, you know a “man thing.” And you could ask what the consequences were and are for both laypeople and women who sincerely wanted to practice the Buddhadharma, who want to study the Buddha Way. And of course there are Buddhist nuns but they’ve always been in a different position and mainly invisible.

Not too long ago the Theragatha was found and if I have time, I can say a little bit about that as well. But we don’t know much about all these women that have been studying and practicing and also been teaching—but not to men. Even today like in Theravada tradition, a ninety-year-old nun would not be able to teach an 18-year-old young man who is a monk for one day. So women were not able and still not able to teach men or to ordain men. And Dhammananda, who made the statue of Mahapajapati that’s in the back there— she is I think the first Buddhist nun that is fully ordained, right? … So it is slowly changing.

And although Dogen lost his mother when he was seven, she greatly influenced his life. And it is said that on her deathbed she asked him to become a monk and to help relieve the suffering in the world…

So Dogen at some point was asked a similar question that Ananda asked the Buddha…. So Dogen was asked, “Should Zazen be practiced by laymen and laywomen or should it be practiced by home-leavers alone?”… So Dogen’s answer was,

“The Ancestors say in understanding Buddhadharma, men and women, noble and common people are not distinguished. “

So for us, this doesn’t sound so new but in 13th century Japan where there was a big difference in … social class, this was revolutionary–that he didn’t make a distinction between laypeople and monks and neither did he make a distinction between men and women.

“…in understanding Buddhadharma men and women, noble and common people are not distinguished. Having wondrous enlightenment is an unsurpassable stage. When women become Buddhas at this stage what in all directions cannot be totally experienced? Who can try to block them and keep them from arriving at this stage?”

That’s a good one, right? Who can try to block them and keep them away from arriving at this stage?

“Through practice, they attain the power of broadly illuminating all the ten directions.”

So in other words, whether you are rich or poor, man or woman, whether you are a monk or a layperson, all have the same capacity to realize the Way to attain the Way, to study, to practice, to sit—the same potential. So he didn’t hide that insight—he was open about it. And in 13th century Japan, that was unheard of, and probably the establishment was very much against him promoting this; that it was not just for this exclusive part of society being monks who would be able to practice and to realize the Buddha Way. So he got quite some resistance for his perspective on this. And then he comes to full steam saying,

“Those who are extremely stupid think that women are the objects of sexual desire and treat women in this way. The Buddha’s children should not be like this. If we discriminate against women because we see them merely as objects of sexual desire, will we also discriminate against men for the same reason? What is the fault of women, what is the virtue of men? There are unwholesome men and there are wholesome women and there are wholesome men and there are unwholesome women. Hoping to hear Dharma and leave the household does not depend on being female or male.”

… A little later he says,

“ Why are men special? Emptiness is emptiness. Four great elements are four great elements. Five skandhas are five skandhas. Women are just like that. Both men and women attain the Way. We should honor attaining of the Way. Do not discriminate between men and women. This is the most wondrous principle of the Buddha Way.”

…So you can see that coming from his deep understanding of oneness, of non separation of the absolute–then how could you make a distinction between having a female body or a male body? We are all one–and there are differences. A man is different than a woman. And in essence we are all one and we all have the same potential and the same capacity to practice the Buddha Way, to study.

And then the quote that has the sentence of the title of this talk, Dogen Zenji is asking,

“ Do you leave out women when you vow to save numberless sentient beings? If you do so, you are not a Bodhisattva. Can you call it the Buddha’s compassion? This is merely nonsense spoken by a drunken Shravaka.”

You can feel his anger in this that he cannot even understand how people are making this distinction.

“ Before becoming free from delusion, both men and women are equally not free from delusion. At the time of becoming free from delusion and realizing the truth there is no difference between men and women. Both women and men attain the Way.”

So for me it is still amazing that Dogen Zenji who was mainly surrounded by men from a fairly young age on, has such a radical… perspective on women. It was, you know, not normal in those days—it was an abnormal view on women. And he knew there would be the resistance to it but yet he didn’t hold back. And I was also wondering like how successful has he been in this, because now we are in the 21st century and of course quite a bit has changed over time but I think still, in Asia especially, the role of women is still quite different than the role and position of men. So there’s work to be done.

This excerpt was transcribed from Sensei Kaigetsu’s talk “Merely Nonsense Spoken by a Drunken Shravaka (Part 5)” from the Dogen Symposum, recorded on July 14, 2012. To listen to the full dharma talk on Upaya Zen Center Dharma Podcasts: https://www.upaya.org/2012/07/irene-kaigetsu-bakker-07-14-2012-dogen-symposium-merely-nonsense-spoken-by-a-drunken-shravaka-part-5/