KomodoPie

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Member Back to Top Post by KomodoPie on



Also in the graph, you'll see that even after its buff, Redeemer looks like a pointless weapon because it does less damage than Viper at all distances -- even though it costs more! Has anyone compared those two weapons in practice? Actually, aside from point-blank range, and aside from Ember's special shield-bypassing advantage, Viper seems to be the best heavy weapon by a fairly large margin (not considering splash weapons). I was surprised by this.





I just won a Calamity (yay!) but now I'm wondering whether I really want to upgrade and run it. According to the damage vs distance stats, Calamity and Avenger are almost identical (see graph below), so the difference seems to be energy vs kinetic and lock-on vs no lock-on. Can anyone tell me how they like Calamity compared to Avenger? Do you find the lock-on to be a bonus or a hinderance?Also in the graph, you'll see that even after its buff, Redeemer looks like a pointless weapon because it does less damage than Viper at all distances -- even though it costs more! Has anyone compared those two weapons in practice? Actually, aside from point-blank range, and aside from Ember's special shield-bypassing advantage, Viper seems to be the best heavy weapon by a fairly large margin (not considering splash weapons). I was surprised by this.

Rollo Tomasi

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Member Back to Top Post by Rollo Tomasi on Def seeing more vipers out there, it’s accuracy at long distance is brutal. I might level one up eventually.



But what does the graph look like for 5s? I bet Redeemer looks a lot better there.



Avenger also has advangage of dbl damage to shields and ancile / aegis are giant bullet catching nets at long distance, Also good for crowd control. 10s reload is painful.



I have too much other stuff to upgrade so currently only run embers and avengers from this list, Dragon Calamity sitting at lvl 1, 2 OE redeemers at lvl 3, Glory at lvl 5, several thunders at 9-12, and comps for viper uncashed.

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Member Back to Top Post by noctaire on I’m assuming the numbers are accurate and plotted accurately, but that graph doesn’t feel right to me; more to the point, it doesn’t seem to reflect what I actually see in play.



As always, play style and choice of robot makes a big difference. That said....



Redeemer - I’ve tried it on the test server and remain unimpressed. However, I;be been getting totally ripped to pieces by them since the buff, so I am building/leveling a pair to put on my Ao Jun.



Avengers - Still king of the hill for brawling.



Vipers - My personal favorite for just kicking back at mid-range to rack up damage points. Damage is not quick, though, so very different play style from Redeemer or Avenger.



Glory - Great up close, so I use it on my brawl bots.



Calamity - I may be in the minority for this one, but I’m just not impressed. By itself, the damage output is kinda...meh. I’m just not a fan of the bug zappers, probably because they take so long to lock on.

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Trusted Contributor Calamity vs Avenger vs Viper vs Redeemer? dobby KomodoPie andlike this Quote Select Post

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Member Back to Top Post by frunobulax on

KomodoPie said:

I just won a Calamity (yay!) but now I'm wondering whether I really want to upgrade and run it. According to the damage vs distance stats, Calamity and Avenger are almost identical (see graph below), so the difference seems to be energy vs kinetic and lock-on vs no lock-on. Can anyone tell me how they like Calamity compared to Avenger? Do you find the lock-on to be a bonus or a hinderance? war-robots-forum.freeforums.net/thread/31724/using-calamity



Since winning 2 Calamities I levelled up 4 Avengers and am working on 2 Vipers. The Calamities are still level 3 or so :-) Vipers can be pretty nasty, especially on an open map, and I planned to build a Viper Bulwark (but won an Ao Jun in my SC and may slap the Vipers on that one). Avengers are better on a short map.



Calamities - I really like Scourges, and Calamities look good on paper, but I'll go for the weapon that is cheaper to upgrade (Avenger). And I hardly ever see Calamities in Champ.



I'm not sure if the Avenger damage in your graph is correct. There is a notable dropoff in damage against smaller targets from 300m. From my experience, Avengers melt Furys and other big frames even from 450m but have trouble with Pursuers even from 250m. The advantage of the Calamity is that it will do the same damage regardless of the size of the frame, so Calamities are better against smaller bots than Avengers.



I was never a big fan of the Redeemer, but I'm surprised that it is outperformed by the Viper.



Since winning 2 Calamities I levelled up 4 Avengers and am working on 2 Vipers. The Calamities are still level 3 or so :-) Vipers can be pretty nasty, especially on an open map, and I planned to build a Viper Bulwark (but won an Ao Jun in my SC and may slap the Vipers on that one). Avengers are better on a short map.Calamities - I really like Scourges, and Calamities look good on paper, but I'll go for the weapon that is cheaper to upgrade (Avenger). And I hardly ever see Calamities in Champ.I'm not sure if the Avenger damage in your graph is correct. There is a notable dropoff in damage against smaller targets from 300m. From my experience, Avengers melt Furys and other big frames even from 450m but have trouble with Pursuers even from 250m. The advantage of the Calamity is that it will do the same damage regardless of the size of the frame, so Calamities are better against smaller bots than Avengers.I was never a big fan of the Redeemer, but I'm surprised that it is outperformed by the Viper.

balrog89

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Member Back to Top Post by balrog89 on Rollo Tomasi said:



But what does the graph look like for 5s? I bet Redeemer looks a lot better there.



Avenger also has advangage of dbl damage to shields and ancile / aegis are giant bullet catching nets at long distance, Also good for crowd control. 10s reload is painful.



I have too much other stuff to upgrade so currently only run embers and avengers from this list, Dragon Calamity sitting at lvl 1, 2 OE redeemers at lvl 3, Glory at lvl 5, several thunders at 9-12, and comps for viper uncashed. Def seeing more vipers out there, it’s accuracy at long distance is brutal. I might level one up eventually.But what does the graph look like for 5s? I bet Redeemer looks a lot better there.Avenger also has advangage of dbl damage to shields and ancile / aegis are giant bullet catching nets at long distance, Also good for crowd control. 10s reload is painful.I have too much other stuff to upgrade so currently only run embers and avengers from this list, Dragon Calamity sitting at lvl 1, 2 OE redeemers at lvl 3, Glory at lvl 5, several thunders at 9-12, and comps for viper uncashed.



Only thing I want out of this game, and been wanting it for years, is a reload button for all the bullet firing weapons. I feel you. I got way too much gear and not enough time to upgrade it.Only thing I want out of this game, and been wanting it for years, is a reload button for all the bullet firing weapons.

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Member Back to Top Post by Koalabear on I just won a Calamity too. It was the weapon I'd really wanted since it came out, so Yay for me! LOL.



IDK, my upgrade queue is full right now. Gotta get my Blitz to L9 (love this bot though!), and I'm experimenting with the Blaze on my Taran Hover. It's only L3 right now. But the biggest drain on my silver is the Ao Jun I'm building Should have it in just under a month (hopefully). I think when I finally get the Ao Jun, I'll likely run it like Bob Dylan with Viper/Avenger cause I have one Viper at L9 and 1 Avenger at L10 (2 more Avengers at L9 that I'm not currently using). On paper, Viper and Avenger should synchronize well. A single Viper can bring a Carnage down to 1/2 outside of 300m range (done that once), and at the same time, a single Avenger can shred most low to medium Anciles on it's own at that range so both shielded and Ancile bots can be taken down, and anything that has neither will feel the full brunt of both weapons.



As for the Calamity, I haven't tried it yet, but I"m thinking Calamity/Scourge Lance or Inky should be quite good. This family of weapons isn't about insta-kill, so maybe that's what people's beef with it is?

Rollo Tomasi

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Member Back to Top Post by Rollo Tomasi on balrog89 said: Rollo Tomasi said:



But what does the graph look like for 5s? I bet Redeemer looks a lot better there.



Avenger also has advangage of dbl damage to shields and ancile / aegis are giant bullet catching nets at long distance, Also good for crowd control. 10s reload is painful.



I have too much other stuff to upgrade so currently only run embers and avengers from this list, Dragon Calamity sitting at lvl 1, 2 OE redeemers at lvl 3, Glory at lvl 5, several thunders at 9-12, and comps for viper uncashed. Def seeing more vipers out there, it’s accuracy at long distance is brutal. I might level one up eventually.But what does the graph look like for 5s? I bet Redeemer looks a lot better there.Avenger also has advangage of dbl damage to shields and ancile / aegis are giant bullet catching nets at long distance, Also good for crowd control. 10s reload is painful.I have too much other stuff to upgrade so currently only run embers and avengers from this list, Dragon Calamity sitting at lvl 1, 2 OE redeemers at lvl 3, Glory at lvl 5, several thunders at 9-12, and comps for viper uncashed.



Only thing I want out of this game, and been wanting it for years, is a reload button for all the bullet firing weapons. I feel you. I got way too much gear and not enough time to upgrade it.Only thing I want out of this game, and been wanting it for years, is a reload button for all the bullet firing weapons. Hasn’t pix been promising that forever? It’s really needed for all the non-auto reloading weapons. Totally sucks that you have to target someone to empty a clip, guns, scourge, spark, and (god-forbid) even hydras, lol.

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Member Back to Top Post by RIP_HARAMBE on I won a Calamity in the Hung Bao and was running premium at the time to took it straight up to 12. Also have lvl12 Avenger. I switch out these and lvl10/11 Embers on Mercury, Falcon, Inquisitor.



As has been mentioned, a lot depends on the bot / weapons synergy and playstyle you're dealing with.



I kindof prefer Avengers (even post-nerf) and Ember to Calamity. For me I just don't like the lockon delay of the Scourge-class weapons. The cool-down on the Calamity is 5s vs 10s for the Avenger, so at reload time you actually have 2s advantage with the Calamity even with the lockon delay. Still, up close dash bots can break the lock and then you're humped.



That said, it's kindof hard to swing a Falcon around and hit anything up close with an Avenger or Ember so sometimes Calamity lockon is helpful. Best to keep Red at arms length I guess...





Currently running Calamity up front on Falcon with Tridents on the wings. Still does a little damage at Trident range and helps by giving a visual indication if I'm targeting efficiently.



It's good on the Mercury, too, benefit of the bot here is you're under cover for most of the lockon delay.



I think I just really like Embers.





Just started building a Viper if that means anything...my workshop has been idle for about a month now.



Really suggest you run some builds on the test server to do a gut check on it, but if you're generally happy with your loadouts and Calamity doesn't fit into your hangar, just sit on it.



It will get buffed and be a meta gun at some point...maybe on Fenrir. I stood ~70m out from one of those this morning unloading with lvl10 Ember and 2x maxed PunTs and that guy just stood there and took it like water off a duck. Might be a good platform for the Calamity.











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Member Back to Top Post by NexusBlade on Redeemer has a burst firing mechanic. In theory over the course of one burst it temporarily out damages things like viper, but noone dashes out shoots redeemer and dashes back, at least non Ive seen.



Personally viper being able to penetrate ancile is irrelevant, you only see ancile on the occasional haechi and those die extremely easy regardless, Damage wise its better at a range but worse than avenger up close, and costing 3 times as much to upgrade? what a joke. Im perfectly happy with my lvl 12 avenger but ymmv. Of course im sure pixonic will nerf Avenger to the point where viper is just better in every way eventually, as they did for gust and halo.



Glory is a solid weapon, and calamity is the definition of "meh" ive seen dozens of them in the feild and never really had an issue with them, and I would much rather put an avenger in its place, no frustrating lock on.

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Member Back to Top Post by KomodoPie on frunobulax said:

KomodoPie said:

I just won a Calamity (yay!) but now I'm wondering whether I really want to upgrade and run it. According to the damage vs distance stats, Calamity and Avenger are almost identical (see graph below), so the difference seems to be energy vs kinetic and lock-on vs no lock-on. Can anyone tell me how they like Calamity compared to Avenger? Do you find the lock-on to be a bonus or a hinderance? war-robots-forum.freeforums.net/thread/31724/using-calamity



Since winning 2 Calamities I levelled up 4 Avengers and am working on 2 Vipers. The Calamities are still level 3 or so :-) Vipers can be pretty nasty, especially on an open map, and I planned to build a Viper Bulwark (but won an Ao Jun in my SC and may slap the Vipers on that one). Avengers are better on a short map.



Calamities - I really like Scourges, and Calamities look good on paper, but I'll go for the weapon that is cheaper to upgrade (Avenger). And I hardly ever see Calamities in Champ.



I'm not sure if the Avenger damage in your graph is correct. There is a notable dropoff in damage against smaller targets from 300m. From my experience, Avengers melt Furys and other big frames even from 450m but have trouble with Pursuers even from 250m. The advantage of the Calamity is that it will do the same damage regardless of the size of the frame, so Calamities are better against smaller bots than Avengers.



I was never a big fan of the Redeemer, but I'm surprised that it is outperformed by the Viper.



Since winning 2 Calamities I levelled up 4 Avengers and am working on 2 Vipers. The Calamities are still level 3 or so :-) Vipers can be pretty nasty, especially on an open map, and I planned to build a Viper Bulwark (but won an Ao Jun in my SC and may slap the Vipers on that one). Avengers are better on a short map.Calamities - I really like Scourges, and Calamities look good on paper, but I'll go for the weapon that is cheaper to upgrade (Avenger). And I hardly ever see Calamities in Champ.I'm not sure if the Avenger damage in your graph is correct. There is a notable dropoff in damage against smaller targets from 300m. From my experience, Avengers melt Furys and other big frames even from 450m but have trouble with Pursuers even from 250m. The advantage of the Calamity is that it will do the same damage regardless of the size of the frame, so Calamities are better against smaller bots than Avengers.I was never a big fan of the Redeemer, but I'm surprised that it is outperformed by the Viper.



It's also worth noting that the video was posted before the 5.0 nerf to Avenger. Before the nerf, Avenger did full damage out to 200m (now its damage drops off immediately) and so its specs on paper were substantially better than Calamity (whereas now they are nearly identical).

Thanks, there's a comparison video in that "Using Calamity" thread that's perfectly on point...but I think there must be something wrong with the guy's tests. They don't make sense. Calamity took the same amount of time to kill the Bulwark as it took to kill the Falcon (22 secs). So their effective durability is apparently the same (bot+aegis+maybe physical shield durability for Bulwark, or bot durability x 3 for Falcon). And yet Redeemer, which is also an energy weapon with no bullet spread, takes longer to kill the Bulwark than the Falcon. Makes no sense. Meanwhile, given the Calamity result, we should expect Avenger to kill the Bulwark faster than the Falcon, since Avenger should have an advantage against the big aegis shield, and because Avenger should do 2X damage against the physical shield (if he switched to that when the aegis went down). But Avenger also took exactly the same amount of time to kill the Bulwark as it took to kill the Falcon. Makes no sense.It's also worth noting that the video was posted before the 5.0 nerf to Avenger. Before the nerf, Avenger did full damage out to 200m (now its damage drops off immediately) and so its specs on paper were substantially better than Calamity (whereas now they are nearly identical).

orionpax

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Member Back to Top Post by orionpax on Rollo Tomasi said:



But what does the graph look like for 5s? I bet Redeemer looks a lot better there.



Avenger also has advangage of dbl damage to shields and ancile / aegis are giant bullet catching nets at long distance, Also good for crowd control. 10s reload is painful.



I have too much other stuff to upgrade so currently only run embers and avengers from this list, Dragon Calamity sitting at lvl 1, 2 OE redeemers at lvl 3, Glory at lvl 5, several thunders at 9-12, and comps for viper uncashed. Def seeing more vipers out there, it’s accuracy at long distance is brutal. I might level one up eventually.But what does the graph look like for 5s? I bet Redeemer looks a lot better there.Avenger also has advangage of dbl damage to shields and ancile / aegis are giant bullet catching nets at long distance, Also good for crowd control. 10s reload is painful.I have too much other stuff to upgrade so currently only run embers and avengers from this list, Dragon Calamity sitting at lvl 1, 2 OE redeemers at lvl 3, Glory at lvl 5, several thunders at 9-12, and comps for viper uncashed.

. I’m running vipers because I like them but if I had redeemers I would run those. Mk2 those things and they become straight up nasty! . I’m running vipers because I like them but if I had redeemers I would run those. Mk2 those things and they become straight up nasty!

Rollo Tomasi

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Member Back to Top Post by Rollo Tomasi on orionpax said: Rollo Tomasi said:



But what does the graph look like for 5s? I bet Redeemer looks a lot better there.



Avenger also has advangage of dbl damage to shields and ancile / aegis are giant bullet catching nets at long distance, Also good for crowd control. 10s reload is painful.



I have too much other stuff to upgrade so currently only run embers and avengers from this list, Dragon Calamity sitting at lvl 1, 2 OE redeemers at lvl 3, Glory at lvl 5, several thunders at 9-12, and comps for viper uncashed. Def seeing more vipers out there, it’s accuracy at long distance is brutal. I might level one up eventually.But what does the graph look like for 5s? I bet Redeemer looks a lot better there.Avenger also has advangage of dbl damage to shields and ancile / aegis are giant bullet catching nets at long distance, Also good for crowd control. 10s reload is painful.I have too much other stuff to upgrade so currently only run embers and avengers from this list, Dragon Calamity sitting at lvl 1, 2 OE redeemers at lvl 3, Glory at lvl 5, several thunders at 9-12, and comps for viper uncashed. . I’m running vipers because I like them but if I had redeemers I would run those. Mk2 those things and they become straight up nasty!



Thx for the input. Keep on keepin on! It is very tempting, only 17d to 12mk1. Even with playing less, I could 12mk2 it within 3 weeks using vids to speed up. So much other stuff to upgrade though. And all the lockdown crap might seriously drive me from this game altogether.Thx for the input. Keep on keepin on!