NORMAL, Ill. — Brock Spack’s daughter, Alicia, approached her father during a football camp earlier this decade, excited about a prospect working out at Illinois State. A former Purdue softball player and then an intern in the Redbirds football program, Alicia was excited about the size and athleticism of one local camper.

Spack knew the camper and asked his daughter to guess the age of Jacksonville (Ill.) native Gabe Megginson. Alicia, who today is the ISU football director of operations, guessed — based on his size — that he was 17 or 18 years old. Megginson was 14.

“She said, ‘You got to be kidding me?’” Spack recalled. “I said, ‘He’s probably going to be a national recruit someday.’ Of course, we didn’t see him anymore (at our camps). He became a big-time player. At the time, I told my daughter, ‘He’s a great player, but he ain’t coming here.’”

At the FCS level, Spack never envisioned he’d have a chance to coach Megginson, who had scholarship offers out of high school from Ohio State, Miami, Michigan State, Nebraska, Penn State and Wisconsin, among others.

But after three years just 60 miles down the road at Illinois, Megginson transferred to Illinois State for his final two years of eligibility and will be automatically inserted into the Redbirds starting lineup (FBS players who transfer to FCS programs don't face a one-year sit-out penalty).

Spack, the defensive coordinator at Purdue from 1997-2008 under head coach Joe Tiller, considers himself fortunate to land one of the most highly-touted prep prospects to ever play for the Redbirds.

“I’m not taking shots at anybody, but I’m just telling you (when I was there) Purdue would never let him leave. We would've begged him to stay,” Spack said. "I’m just telling you, he’s good. He would’ve played on any team we had there, including our Rose Bowl team (in 2000).”

Spack has experience taking in former power-five players. Former Indiana quarterback Tre Roberson transferred to Illinois State after three years in Bloomington and helped lead the Redbirds to an FCS runner-up finish in 2014 and another FCS quarterfinal appearance in 2015.

“Like all our guys, I didn’t promise him that he’d play or start,” Spack said of Megginson. “But obviously, I’d be disappointed if he didn’t play. But he’s everything we thought he’d be and more. The best guys I’ve had here, the Big Ten guys, have been humble, don’t say a lot and just try to fit in and blend in with the rest of the guys. He did a great job of that. Roberson was the same way.”

Illini Inquirer traveled to Normal to sit down with Megginson and discuss his ongoing transition at Illinois State, his departure from a tumultuous tenure at Illinois and how his the outlook for his future has changed.

Megginson, who bounced back and forth from the Illini starting lineup to second string the previous two years, sounds refreshed with a new, more stable, environment with a built-in winning culture (Illinois State has made four FCS playoff appearances the last six seasons).

“You feel the vibe,” Spack said. “You feel that people are committed and there’s a sense of discipline. I think he likes that part of that.”

Following is a transcript of Illini Inquirer’s conversation with Megginson.

Gabe Megginson, Illinois State Redbird. How’s that sound after about a half a year here in Normal?

Megginson: “Really good. It still feels pretty fresh. It’s really fun. It’s still exciting to hear. I mean, you just said it, and I smile about it, and it’s still pretty cool.”

What’s been the biggest change for you coming over here?

Megginson: “The people, I guess. Coming here, I didn’t know anybody. I had to learn a hundred dudes’ names and all about them. It kinda feels like a freshman again, so probably that. It’s just a change of scene. It’s different. You get so comfortable in another place, then you come back here mid-year when it’s freezing cold. At first, it was weird, but it’s really nice now.”

As you settle in, how does it feel? Does it feel different? Do you feel rejuvenated at all after you’ve made this change?

Megginson: “Yeah, absolutely. It’s different in the best way it could. Rejuvenated, absolutely. At first, I thought football was the issue, like, ‘Maybe I don’t like football anymore.’ Then I just thought it through and thought maybe I needed a new scene and new people around me and just a fresh start.”

Illinois State has an established winning culture here. At Illinois, you had so many changes with Tim Beckman getting fired months after you got there. Then Bill Cubit getting fired months later and Lovie Smith coming in. What was it like to go through that? You mentioned football wasn’t as fun when you had that stuff going on.

Megginson: “That was (sigh) … that’s a huge part of why people want to come here. You got a lot of bigger names from bigger schools, like Notre Dame guys, because it is so established. Coach Spack is going into his 10th season, which I just found out. That’s insane. The change in the moment at U of I was never the problem, I don’t think. I always thought it was, not that it was fun, but it was exciting with new coaches and getting to know them. But once you get older, you realize you want guys to be around you for longer. Technique changes with different coaches. That started to get hard early on. But with Butkus and everything, his technique was straightforward. It’s cool because these coaches (at Illinois State) are known for being around. A new (offensive) staff just came in, but they were going to be new to me anyway.”

Why was this where you wanted to be ultimately? It sounds like you could’ve looked into your options more, but your recruitment was pretty quick. Take me through that.

Megginson: “I was transferring on a Sunday, I put that out. I got my (release) paper on a Monday. Coach Spack called me that night and asked me if I wanted to come visit. I said, ‘I don’t have a class tomorrow,’ so Tuesday I come to visit. I was going to visit South Dakota and maybe one more, like Montana. But I think that was just to see what it was like out there. I was like, ‘I can’t go that far.’ They don’t play teams around here that much. I’d known Coach Spack since I was 15, so it made it pretty easy when I just sat down and thought about it.”

Take me back to that decision to leave Illinois. I know it’s probably not an easy one. You were one of many guys to transfer after last season which was tough, especially for the veterans. What went into that decision ultimately?

Megginson: “I’d been unhappy for a little bit. Obviously with the freshmen movement — which was cool, and I do hope it works out because I fell in love with that place at a young age so I never wish anything bad on them — but that movement was clear (after starting seven games as a redshirt freshman, Megginson started only two games as a sophomore as Illinois decided to play true freshmen Alex Palczewski, Larry Boyd and Vederian Lowe instead). A couple practices in the season, when I was getting moved to the scout team, it was kinda like, ‘Ahh.’ One day I almost left practice I was so upset. I wasn’t in the meetings with the guys. I was like, ‘I don’t know if I should be here.’ Towards the end of the season, it was just weird for me. It was just weird being out there, knowing you sh — not should — but you could be out there playing. It hurt. But then I talked about it with my girlfriend initially the night of the Northwestern game (a season-ending 42-7 loss in Champaign). I was like, ‘All right, all the stress is gone. No emotional decisions. Let’s talk about it.’ We did. It was so clear, but I just didn’t want to say I was leaving. It’s so weird to decommit from everything you’ve been with. I talked to my family the next day, and they said, ‘We were kinda hoping you would say that after all this.’ As bad as it hurt, I knew I had to be selfish with it and finally do it.”

Who was the hardest person to tell?

Megginson: “Honestly … (Illinois offensive line coach Luke) Butkus was the first guy I went to talk to. I waited like an hour to talk to him. He was on the StairMaster. He gets after it, so I was just sitting and watching him. He had no idea. Well, I think he had an idea. I thought he would be hard (to tell). Initially, when I went down there, I was going to tell him I was thinking about transferring and talk me through it. As soon as I opened my mouth, I said, ‘Hey, I’m transferring.’ I was like, ‘Wow, OK. I’m going with that now. I guess that’s what I really wanted.’ Butkus was tough because I really did feel close to him. I think everybody did.

“Coach Smith was the second person so a little less tough even though he was the head guy. Probably (offensive line teammate) Nicky Allegretti (was the toughest). Honestly, probably him. I almost cried when I told him. Him and (teammate) Adam (Solomon) were right there because they just had a meeting. I was walking out with a bad with all my stuff and I see them, and I was like, ‘Oh, god.’ They know you just don’t clear your locker out at the end of the season. That was tough.”

Adam was your roommate the last couple years, right?

Megginson: “Yeah, and he’s just staring at me. They’re walking out of the meeting, and he’s just staring at me. I’m like, ‘I’m sorry.’”

I know Coach Butkus was close to you. How much did he and Lovie try to talk you out of it at all? I know there were some changes (offensive coordinator Garrick McGee was fired) after you decided to transfer. Did that influence you at all? Would you have changed your decision knowing McGee was on his way out?

Megginson: “Coach Butkus just wanted to make sure I was all right. He said, ‘Do you know where you’re going?’ He wasn’t questioning my decision. He was just making sure I was good. Coach Smith told me to think about it until that Friday. It was Monday, and I just couldn’t. I texted him that day, ‘Can I please have my transfer forms so I can get it started?’ So he didn’t really try to talk me out of it. But he said to wait until Friday. I thought that was maybe kinda hinting at Coach McGee being gone. It wasn’t just all McGee. But I didn’t have a great relationship with him. He was probably the only coach I tried to mouth off to, honestly.”

What was the disconnect there?

Megginson: “He was teaching offensive line technique that Butkus wasn’t teaching. So when we wanted to do his technique, I mean, he was the quarterbacks coach. We kinda trusted Butkus a little bit more. Then I wasn’t going to give in to his technique. That was a big one, and I think he had a disconnect with all the offensive linemen because of that. I don’t know. He had his players, and I wasn’t one of them. That was fine by me.”

It seemed like a lot of the team went through that and Illinois decides to make a change. What was it like to go through that as a team? Because from the outside it felt like a split team.

Megginson: “It was so weird. In the offensive meetings, it was just tense all the time. It wasn’t even us, it was between the coaches. I think McGee had his own idea apart from everyone else. I remember the last couple meetings, he was just like dogging us. Obviously, we weren’t doing great because we had two wins late in the season, the whole season. That was tense. I thought him and Butkus were going to get into it one day, but Butkus would never do that. That was weird. It was just really awkward in meetings.”

After going through all of that last year, what was it like to go through your first practice this spring here at ISU?

Megginson: “(Sigh) That was really nice. Obviously, I didn’t expect to run with the 2s or 3s the first day. I was just sitting back watching plays and just kinda catching on to the culture is all I was just trying to look at. They all celebrated in the end zone on the first play. I was like, ‘Wow, that’s a lot of energy.’ Nobody loves spring ball, but I actually enjoyed it a lot this year. The culture right away, it was a culture shock. The coaches, the way they talk to their players I think was a little bit different. A lot of the Illinois coaches were good with how they talked to players, but these coaches talked to players like men. That’s how we want to be treated, so that was nice. And just the chance I knew I had, it was extremely motivating.”

Talking with Coach Spack, it seems like you’ve made the most of the opportunity and are going to play a big role on the team as a starter here. What’s your outlook on what you can do at Illinois State the next couple years?

Megginson: “Man, I just hope we win a national championship. That’s really cool to say you’re a contender for that. What can I do? I don’t know. I could probably be a more vocal leader because I’m kinda old now. I feel old. I am one of the older guys on the team and on the offensive line. Just be a more vocal leader instead of just trying to keep to myself. I just want to help the younger dudes along like Teddy (Karras) used to, like (Chris) Boles used to do (at Illinois). Just be one of those guys.”

Going from picking Illinois over all these big-time programs to sitting here today at Illinois State, how has your perspective changed about football, college athletics and what you want to get out of all of this?

Megginson: “(Sigh) I don’t know. I think back and during the whole recruitment process you think, ‘What if I went there? What if I went there?’ I think you’ll do that the rest of your life. You play all these situations in your head. But just having fun. I think the biggest thing is maybe I would’ve stepped away earlier at U of I. When Cubit left, I was like, ‘I’m going to transfer, no doubt.’ Then Coach Smith came.”

Is that what stopped you, Lovie Smith coming in?

Megginson: “Absolutely. I just didn’t want to go through all the changes. But I think as soon as you stop having fun somewhere, you can look somewhere else. There’s a penalty sitting a year (at another FBS program, not at an FCS program like Illinois State). But here I couldn’t be happier. I couldn’t imagine anywhere else I’d be. I don’t know. It’s more about fun than I ever knew until now.”

You learning everything about where to go and where to be?

Megginson: “Yeah, I had to GPS my class schedule about the first three weeks. I was late a couple times, but they give you a slap on the wrist if you’re late and don’t know where you’re going. It’s neat. My major’s a lot different. It’s the same major…”

What’s your major?

Megginson: “Human development, family studies. It’s a really broad range, but it’s different. All my classes are 99 percent women. It’s just a whole different perspective when we debate. You see different sides. It’s really cool. I’m finally in a major. It took me two and a half years to pick one. It’s an interesting major, and classes are fine. Summer school there (at Illinois) is just like it is here.”

You’ve always had fun with Twitter and the media. How have you found that balance because Coach Spack said you know when to do it, you don’t cross the line of being obnoxious. How do you do that?

Megginson: “Wow, I like that. I’ll take that compliment. I don’t know. My parents always told me when and where to do it. Twitter, I retweet some cuss words sometimes, but I don’t say anything ignorant. I don’t put my opinions out there. Well, sometimes I do on music or whatever. But I don’t know. I never really wanted to cross that line. I usually try to stay as far away as I can. Just certain places, I know when to do it.”

You’ve always shown your personality and are not afraid of that. Football can be so serious. It feels you try to keep some levity involved in it all.

Megginson: “Yeah, and definitely coming here, I had no idea what the line was. I don’t think I talked to anybody the first month. I was so scared to say something, especially in meetings and everything. I think people are starting to see my personality and people are starting to see YouTube me and see some interviews. I’m like, ‘All right, it was a couple years ago, you don’t have to bring it back up.'”

Have they talked about the cats and all that?

Megginson: “Oh, yeah. They ask me, ‘Who’s your celebrity crush?’ because they know the answer: Mariah Carey. It’s starting to show a little bit that I’m getting comfortable with these guys. They’re bringing it out of me.”

What was your experience like with Illinois fans? They obviously were so excited, Gabe, when an in-state guy — not many in-state guys are picking them over Ohio State and all these big programs. What was your experience like with that fanbase?

Megginson: “I met some of my best friends I will ever have. The experience, the recruiting was sweet. The fans were sweet. Sometimes there are fair-weather fans and the ones who are they are very mean on social media.”

So you guys do read that stuff.

Megginson: “Yeah, I read blogs and I used to read blogs when I was getting recruited. I’d get so offended, but I really don’t anymore. From that first bus ride to the stadium, sitting next to Jimmy Fitzgerald, my guy, to I think the last thing I did was shake up with Blake Hance (a fellow Jacksonville native) after the Northwestern game, I had a blast. It was always fun. Losing wasn’t fun, but we found a way, we found a way to make it fun. We knew if we beat Northwestern or not we weren’t going to a bowl game, and I think that hotel stay the week before was the most fun we ever had because we were just playing all or nothing. I had a great time at U of I, socially, academically. I got a 3.3 (GPA) one time, which was like the best I’ve ever had, so I was pretty pumped. It was cool. The fans, they kept me there more than anything, so I’m appreciative of everyone involved and for keeping me around. Just thank you to all of them.”

Thanks, Gabe. Appreciate it.

Megginson: “Thank you, so much.”