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So close, yet so far. That sums up Domenick Abbate and Survivor: Winners at War. The Legend of Long Island lost out on both $1 million and a chance to appear on season 40 due to the franchise’s first-ever jury tie on Survivor: Ghost Island. That meant fellow finalist Laurel Johnson cast the deciding vote, and she cast it for Wendell Holland, who went on to play in the all-winners edition while Dom was relegated to watching from his couch 8,000 miles away.

So what’s it been like for Domenick to watch a season on which he was so close to appearing? And what does he make of how the man who beat him has been portrayed so far? The Ghost Island runner-up called in to EW Live (SiriusXM, channel 109) on Thursday and shared his conflicted feelings on watching Winners at War, his candid thoughts on his friend Wendell, his take on the latest Tribal Council, his pick for the player who has surprised him the most, and why he thinks the drama around Fire Tokens may have only just begun. (To hear the entire interview — including Dom’s thoughts on Sandra leaving the Edge of Extinction — listen to it on demand on the SiriusXM app.)

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ENTERTAINMENT WEEKLY: You came the closest anyone has ever come to winning this game without actually winning, losing on a tiebreaker vote. So just give it to me straight: Did it hurt when you watched those 20 winners walk up on that beach on day one knowing you were just that one tiebreaker vote away from joining them?

DOMENICK ABBATE: Yeah, it's a weird process. And there was some type of a hint going around that season 40 was actually going to be something else. And I thought maybe I was going to be getting a call for that. And then when they switched it to all winners, that was the first blow, because that meant I wasn't going back. But then, it really started the process that not only am I not going back, but now there's a new season with a different theme that, man, I should be on this one as well! So it's a weird process you go through as someone who came so close, and then you missed it, and there's all these other things that you're beating yourself up about.

Like, man, I could've really financially had myself set up if I would have won that tiebreaker, or whatever it may have been. But now, that part of it's passed. Now it's just a matter of watching it from my couch. It's a very odd feeling, especially because of the fact that Wendell, who beat me, is playing this season. It's like I'm trying to play through him in a way if possible, but it's not the same. There's an emptiness for me wishing that I was out there getting to see what kind of chops I had for a real VIP cast of players that I really would've liked to see where I stood among this group of people.

I've been thinking about how hard it must be for you specifically, because of your situation, to watch this season, but how has watching the show just in general changed for you after being on the show?

Yeah, that's definitely something that happens after you've been on the show. And it's not even so much that you know the ins and the outs of what's going on in the game. But from being just a diehard fan wishing I could play the game, that's a different feeling from once you do it. It's almost a sadness I have, like if I ever was to go back again a second time, as much as I would love to do it, there's something sad about not having that first-time chills running down your back. Almost like being a Survivor virgin, I like to call it — here you just wish for that scary feeling of not knowing what's next and what's to come. I'm sure it still exists with returning players, but like I said, watching the show now as someone who has done it already, it takes a little bit of the fun away because you kind of knew the ins and the outs of the game.

So as a viewer now, I still enjoy the show tremendously, but I can also kind of figure out what's going on, and it's taking away from me actually just sitting back and enjoying it. I'd rather just not know what some of the dimensions are behind the scenes, so that I could just take it in as a fan like I was at one point. But it's still amazing to still watch. I'm still a huge fan. Fan first, for sure. But something definitely changes once you've been out there and now you try to watch it. It's just something's different. Not just for myself, but I would say for any player.

So your buddy Wendell beats you by that tiebreaker vote, but you guys are still very close. What do you make of the edit he's getting this season? Because it's certainly very different than the one he got last time.

Yeah, I'm really surprised by it. I'm really surprised because when I played with him, he was never aggressive in nature. I mean, he had his moments, but he always knew how to hone it in. And I don't know what's going on this season. It seems like he was doing fine up until this latest swap where now he's with Michele Fitzgerald, and obviously there's some history between the two of them. And I don't know if they're both kind of messing with each other in a way, even if it's involuntarily, there's some type of chemistry issue going on between Michele and Wendell.

And all of a sudden we're seeing a more aggressive side of Wendell, and I'm not sure if it's because of this past relationship that he has with her or if he's really just saying, “Look, I'm playing a different game. I had a great run with Dom on Ghost Island, but now it's my time to do my own thing and I want to show people how I want to play.” And maybe that's what it is and maybe it's just being misinterpreted. Maybe it's not as hostile as people are perceiving it to be and he's confused by that. Because I think in his mind he's like, “Well, what do you mean? What am I doing that's such a big deal?” Because I know him personally. Like you said, I'm friends with Wendell, so when I see some of the social media feedback he's getting, I'm baffled by it.

Because I know Wendell the man, the person, and I think what people are just seeing on TV is not the big picture of who he is. So some of the decisions he's making are coming off in a way that I think a lot of people aren't really understanding the way he's trying to maybe put it out there. But that's the price you pay when you sign up to play Survivor. You're going to get whatever the editor’s going to do for you. Sometimes it's favorable, and sometimes it's not. But I will say I'm very, very surprised at the increase in his aggressive play, which was a dramatic difference from the way we were on Ghost Island.

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Let's get into what happened at the last Tribal. Sele loses the challenge, and Yul ends up being voted out. I'm sure you're happy about that, because Wendell lives to play another day. But what do you make of that decision by Nick and Michele?

I was obviously happy that Wendell survived that, but I do love Yul too. I mean, as a Survivor fan, I really admired the game he played in his season and the way he won. I thought it was a really complete game. But like I said, I'm more happy that Wendell lasted. But for Nick and Michele, I think it's the obvious choice. I mean, Wendell can be giving everyone problems in the tribe, but that doesn't compare to the main ingredient, which is “Do I want to sit next to Yul at the end of this game?” And at the end of the day, nobody wants to sit next to Yul. He's too big and too complete of a player. He's too well-liked. His personality fits all players. There's not one person on the jury that can say anything bad about Yul. So I think it was a matter of “Yul is going to kick all of our asses at the end, so let's just make this determination now that regardless of what happens, he's the guy that's going to get sent home.”

Who has been the biggest surprise for you, either good or bad, in terms of what you expected out of someone this season?

A surprise for me is Sophie Clarke. And the reason I think that is, is because in her season with Coach, that was almost like that season where there was like a cult, right? Coach was like the leader of this cult. And I felt like she didn't really get to spread her wings that season, because she had to kind stay with the group and not be an outcast. She couldn't really do things the way she wanted to. Luckily, it worked out for her and she ended up winning that season. But I feel like this season we're getting to see a side of Sophie we never got to see before. And I really am enjoying her. I'm really enjoying her game. I love her dynamic with her tribe. You can see that she's just way more relaxed this season, and I'm really enjoying the way she's playing the game and feel it's refreshing.

And I'll be honest with you, I didn't love Sophie her first season, and I think it's not her fault. I think it's because of the dynamic of the groups she was with, it just didn't allow for her to really get to do her thing. So this time around, she's playing more individually. She's making decisions that don't necessarily have to be with the group. She's doing things on a smaller scale. And that to me, has been really refreshing. I've really enjoyed watching her up to this point.

Yeah, my winner pick was going to be either Sophie or Danni, and I went with Danni. Shows you what I know. Finally, what do you think of the Fire Tokens twist introduced this season?

I think it's amazing. I know it sounds wacky because it sounds like another thing we're adding into the game besides idols and advantages. Now you've got these tokens. But I think it's allowing the players to take more of a stab. What's important to remember is that it's going to take an evolution of the season for people to really see the potential of what you can do with Fire Tokens. It's the same way I had to really try to figure out what is the potential of the final four fire-making. In my season, that was the first time I heard about it, so I didn't really get to wrap my head around: How does this change the dynamic of the game of Survivor? It wasn't until you've seen it air one season, two seasons, three seasons, before you really get to see players take full advantage of this change in the game.

And I think if we ever do see Fire Tokens again, I think you'll see very aggressive play in a different season with it. Not to say that aggressive play isn't coming. I think the players are starting to understand the power of the tokens and what it will mean towards the endgame. So now you're starting to see people get more proactive into figuring out ways to accumulate these tokens, as opposed to in the beginning of the game where it's like, "I don't know what the hell this thing means, I guess I'll just wait and see what happens." But now people are really starting to grasp the concept, which means they're trying to figure out ways to take tokens from other players — whether it be in an honest way or a dishonest way. But there's obviously a demand for them now, and people are starting to realize it. And I think it's going to really bring out some great gameplay in future episodes.

To hear the entire interview — including Dom’s thoughts on Sandra leaving the Edge of Extinction — listen to it on demand on the SiriusXM app.

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