TrueSyzygy Profile Joined August 2010 60 Posts Last Edited: 2010-08-22 17:23:03 #1 First note: I'm new, (note the post count) so I'm not 100% if this is allowed.



Thesis:

The main point of this post is to make a collection of things that can be scouted early on, and how that information can be used to the players advantage, and a beneficial way for the scouter to react. I will update this original post as things are added, and I will try to make the list as complete as possible.



Second note: I'm only a mid platinum rank, and this post is as much for my benefit as anyone elses. I won't beable to flesh out this guy myself very much, I'm relying on the more experienced folk here to help me out.



Race by Race Scouting Analysis



Terran

TvT

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Scout: Scanner sweep

Noteables: 3 barracks, tech labs

Potential threat scouted: 3 rax MM

Possible Response: Tanks. Simple as that.



Scout: Scanner Sweep

Noteables: Factory and armory

Potential threat scouted: Thors

Possible Response: Continue with tank+viking production.



Scout: Scanner Sweep

Noteables: Armory, missing Factory

Potential threat scouted: Proxy Thors

Possible Response: Continue with tank+viking production, scout area for proxy.



Scout: Scanner Sweep

Noteables: Facts and Starport

Potential threat scouted: Vikings+Tank

Possible Response: Mirror match, try to outmacro and outmicro the opponent.













TvP

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Scout: After barracks

Noteables: one gate, one core

Potential threat scouted: standard play, 3 gate robo, 4 gate, etc/

Possible Response: Stick with your original game plan, scout again later with scanner sweep.



Scout: After barracks

Noteables: Only single pylon and forge

Potential threat scouted: Cannon rush

Possible Response: pull 4 SCVs to kill pylon in base.



Scout: After barracks

Noteables: Nothing in base, or missing pylons.

Potential threat scouted: Proxy gate

Possible Response: Bunker up at choke, pull SCVs to repair.



scout: after barracks

noteables: one gate, one pylon, spinning core and stockpiling chrono

potential threat scouted: Korean 3-4 warpgate all in.

possible response: search for proxy and prepare to defend choke with bunker fortification





TvZ

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Scout: after depot

Noteables: 1 pool, 1 gas

Potential threat scouted: speedlings

Possible Response: Place bunker behind unit-tight wall.



Scout: after depot

Noteables: only pool

Potential threat scouted: Fast Expand

Possible Response: Keep macroing, be aggressive with MM.









Protoss

PvT

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Scout: 12 supply, probe that makes gateway.

Noteables: Terran has early gas, Barracks with Tech Lab built or building.

Potential threat scouted: Early Reaper harrassment.

Possible Response: Stalkers ASAP. Be prepared to use your Zealots to scare the reapers, even though they will be kited. Distract reapers long enough to chronoboost out Stalkers.



Scout: 9 pylon, scout with pylon probe

Noteables: Nothing in opponents base

Potential threat scouted: Proxy Rax, marines if no gas, Proxy reapers if gas

Possible Response: Scout own base immediately, be prepared to kill SCV building bunker. Chrono Zealots, get stalkers ASAP.



Scout: 12 gateway builder

Noteables: Early 2 gas

Potential threat scouted: Banshees

Possible Response: Photon cannons in worker line, quick robotech for observers. Stalker-centric build.







PvP

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Scout: 9 pylon, scout with pylon probe

Noteables: Single pylon+forge is all that's there.

Potential threat scouted: cannon rush

Possible Response: Hotkey probes in groups of 4 to kill pylon/building cannons. Immediately search your base.



Scout: 9 pylon, scout with pylon probe

Noteables: Nothing in opponents base.

Potential threat scouted: Proxy 2 gate

Possible Response:Hotkey probes in groups of 4 to kill pylons. Scout surrounding proxy locations (ie natural, unseen areas of base, third). Use your wall to the best advantage possible, chrono zealots. With the ramp advantage you should beable to hold it off.



Scout: 12 gateway or later, possibly 16 pylon

Noteables: Early cyber core, 1 gate

Potential threat scouted: Korean warpgate.

Possible Response: Be sure to keep any probes he tries to squeeze into your base out. Make them no longer be alive.









PvZ

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Scout: 9 pylon, scout with the pylon probe

Noteables: less drones, spawning pool competed

Potential threat scouted: 6/7/8 pool

Possible Response: Place Gateway ASAP, chrono 2-3 zealots

Cons: Early, very minor reduction hit in economy



Scout: 9 pylon

Noteables: gas before pool

Potential threat scouted: Speedlings

Possible Response: Be sure to have your zealots that complete your wall HOLD POSITION.



Scout: later, 14-16 supply

Noteables: early 2 gas

Potential threat scouted: Banelings

Possible Response: Be sure your wall is tight with Gateways, Forges, or Cybercores. Pylons die too quickly to banelings.









Zerg

ZvT

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Scout: Early-Mid Ling pokes (while going muta tech off lings), as your lair starts

Noteables: Wall off, MM, maybe some tanks/hellions

Potential threat scouted: MM, maybe tanks, hellion harass

Possible Response:More rines? Get a baneling next and delay your spire, not too much though

More rauders? Get that spire ASAP

Some Hellions? Drop 1-2 crawlers and get a spire

Some Tanks? Less Mutas, unless your muta micro versus Thors is decent (Tech Lab makes Thors accessable fast)



Scout: Bigger map, earlier scout. 8-14 supply

Noteables: Weak wall off (supply depot)

Potential threat scouted: N/A

Possible Response: Baneling bust, rally lings to keep the pressure on. FE if successful.





ZvP

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ZvP

Scout: 12 supply

Noteables: Fast gas

Potential threat scouted: Fast tech to void rays or collosi

Possible Response: Expand, drone up, and get a lair quickly to be ready with hydras or corruptors



Scout: 12 supply

Noteables: Second gateway before second pylon or cyber core, First gate being chrono boosted

Potential threat scouted: 2 gate pressure

Possible Response: Delay expansion, get lings and a queen, put down a spine crawler or two



Scout: 12 supply

Noteables: Cyber core after gateway

Potential threat scouted: fast tech or 4 gate

Possible Response: do everything you can to keep your drone scout alive until he reveals his build. If your drone dies you'll have to sac an overlord. If you do spot a 4 gate expand, put down 3 or 4 spines (it helps to build an evo chamber in front of to mess with the zealots), get some lings, and tech quickly to hydras to break any contain.



Scout: 10 scout (or 11 if extractor trick).

Noteables: Forward pylon with forge building (no gateway)

Potential threat scouted: Forge Fast Expand

Possible Response: Start saving larva immediately, make 6 lings right when pool finishes, pull all drones except ~4 and march toward the Protoss base. Kill the first cannon before it finishes or the pylon. 6 lings will win you any worker battle that might occur.



Scout: 10 scout (or 11 if extractor trick).

Noteables: Forward pylon with gateway and forge

Potential threat; Forge Fast Expand w/ 1~2 zealots

Possible Response: Take your own expansion, as 1~2 zealots will delay any early aggression attempt and once the first cannon completes its gg. Get early ling speed, and go 2 base muta, taking 3rd base if possible. Try to run by the door with lings and harass the main if successful. If they go ~6 warpgate push with +1 or +2 weapons, make sure you get your carapace upgrades to match theirs and tech to hydras. If you see colossus being built, match them 3:1 with corrupters while having a sizable ling/roach army. Expand and tech to ultras after holding off the huge mid-game push.





ZvZ

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Scout:Early, 8-9 drone

Noteables: Spawning pool completed

Potential threat scouted: Ling rush

Possible Response: Pool up ASAP, get 2 spinecrawlers strategically placed to protect your mineral line and all buildings. No melee to your buildigs without engaging crawlers.











Example

Here's a (probably incorrect) example that I will use to show some format.



PvT

Scout: 12 supply, probe that makes gateway.

Noteables: Terran has early gas, Barracks with Tech Lab built or building.

Potential threat scouted: Early Reaper harrassment.

Possible Response: Stalkers ASAP. Be prepared to use your Zealots to scare the reapers, even though they will be kited. Distract reapers long enough to chronoboost out Stalkers.



Thats a basic format that should make this simple and concise. Copy Paste this for your post.



Scout:

Noteables:

Potential threat scouted:

Possible Response:







Thank you for your support in helping me create a useful tool for the newer members like me. I feel one of the weakest parts of my game is my scouting, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. The main point of this post is to make a collection of things that can be scouted early on, and how that information can be used to the players advantage, and a beneficial way for the scouter to react. I will update this original post as things are added, and I will try to make the list as complete as possible.Here's a (probably incorrect) example that I will use to show some format.PvTScout: 12 supply, probe that makes gateway.Noteables: Terran has early gas, Barracks with Tech Lab built or building.Potential threat scouted: Early Reaper harrassment.Possible Response: Stalkers ASAP. Be prepared to use your Zealots to scare the reapers, even though they will be kited. Distract reapers long enough to chronoboost out Stalkers.Thats a basic format that should make this simple and concise. Copy Paste this for your post.Scout:Noteables:Potential threat scouted:Possible Response:Thank you for your support in helping me create a useful tool for the newer members like me. I feel one of the weakest parts of my game is my scouting, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. Tall, dark, and... Well, two out of three ain't bad.

birdkicker Profile Blog Joined August 2010 United States 718 Posts #2 Oh, this is pretty neat. I've always been looking for something like this. I don't really have anything to contribute as I am still a learning Zerg player. I'll check back once information is here

TrueSyzygy Profile Joined August 2010 60 Posts #3 Haha oh thanks! I am also using this for my own benefit sadly. I wish I was some straight BA random player, so I could just start filling stuff in, but sadly I'm a mediocre toss so I can't fill in much. Tall, dark, and... Well, two out of three ain't bad.

Anxiety Profile Blog Joined May 2010 United States 636 Posts #4 PvZ



Scout: 9 pylon, scout with the pylon probe

Noteables: less scouts, spawning pool competed

Potential threat scouted: 6/7/8 pool

Possible Response: Place Gateway ASAP, chrono 2-3 zealots

Cons: Early, very minor reduction hit in economy





TrueSyzygy Profile Joined August 2010 60 Posts #5 Thanks to you AnxietE, It's been added to the "database" if you will. And I appreciate it cause it's a protoss build haha Tall, dark, and... Well, two out of three ain't bad.

wxwx Profile Joined May 2010 525 Posts #6 This depends on what time you send your probe to scout.



For terran you're gonna always send your pylon probe to harass asap..



For zerg this becomes preference.. Some scout with pylon some scout with gateway, some scout in between.



If you scout sees nothing in base

PvP: proxy 2 gate (most of the time, if not=cannon rush)

PvT: proxy reaper or marine all-in. Get ready to kill scv's making bunker.



PvT

Notices: Early 2nd gas (use judgement)

Potential threat: Banshees, or mech-style play.

Response: Many.



PvZ

Notices: Gas before pool

Potential threat: Speedlings most likely

Response: Not really that helpful to know..



PvZ

Notices: 2 gas

Zerg rarely 2 gas earlygame. Expect banelings!



PvP

Doesn't matter which probe u send, just compare to your own buildings %

Notice: Early gate+core

Threat: korean 4gate or normal 4gate push.

Response: Many. Chrono boost warp tech. Make sure you kill his scout probe.









No0n Profile Joined March 2010 United States 348 Posts Last Edited: 2010-08-21 04:33:13 #7

Send SCV out after Depot

Notice 1 gas 1 pool : Speedlings --> Build a bunker and put rines in. Put supply depot in position that blocks bunk

Just spawning pool : Lings and then queen or expo --> Be aggressive with MM

Early Hatch : Fast expand --> Aggressive with Hellions



TvP

Send SCV out after rax

See 1 gate and core : 4 gate all in, 3 gate push, 1 gate expand (Ive seen some people do this) --> take and expansion and Macro up, maybe take a 3rd. If 1 gate expo, aggressive.

See pylon and forge : Cannon rush --> Pull 4 or more SCVs and attack pylon, or find it first.

Missing pylons : Proxy gate --> Bunker up and pull SCVs to repair



TvT

Send SCV out after rax, do not scout into other persons base(I use scan)

See raxes : 3 rax rauder --> Do tanks, add another fact and stop viking production.

See factory and armory : Thor --> Continue with Tank Viking. Thors suck vs. Mass tank viking.

See Armory : Proxied fact and Thor --> Same thing as above ^^, find the proxy

See facts and Starport : Viking tank --> Viking tank



63 Platinum, if anyone cares....





TvZSend SCV out after DepotNotice 1 gas 1 pool : Speedlings --> Build a bunker and put rines in. Put supply depot in position that blocks bunkJust spawning pool : Lings and then queen or expo --> Be aggressive with MMEarly Hatch : Fast expand --> Aggressive with HellionsTvPSend SCV out after raxSee 1 gate and core : 4 gate all in, 3 gate push, 1 gate expand (Ive seen some people do this) --> take and expansion and Macro up, maybe take a 3rd. If 1 gate expo, aggressive.See pylon and forge : Cannon rush --> Pull 4 or more SCVs and attack pylon, or find it first.Missing pylons : Proxy gate --> Bunker up and pull SCVs to repairTvTSend SCV out after rax, do not scout into other persons base(I use scan)See raxes : 3 rax rauder --> Do tanks, add another fact and stop viking production.See factory and armory : Thor --> Continue with Tank Viking. Thors suck vs. Mass tank viking.See Armory : Proxied fact and Thor --> Same thing as above ^^, find the proxySee facts and Starport : Viking tank --> Viking tank63 Platinum, if anyone cares.... Park Sang Woo(Sea.Really) Fighting! E-STRO forever.

TrueSyzygy Profile Joined August 2010 60 Posts #8 Thanks guys, this database is really fleshing out, with the exception of zerg. A zerg player could really help us out right now, Tall, dark, and... Well, two out of three ain't bad.

imbored89 Profile Joined March 2010 United States 57 Posts #9 ZvT

Scout: Wall, barracks, 2 supply depots

Noticeables: Barracks, 2 supply depots

Potential threat scouted: Early banshees, cloaked banshees, early bio push, tank bio push, delayed tank medivac bio push, mech push, battlecruiser rush, hellion harrass, viking harras.

Possible Response: Zerg tears, say "gg" if you are so inclined.



Just kidding. In all seriousness, for both ZvP, and ZvT (or XvP, XvT I guess)



Scout: This is more of a general information guide as opposed to something very specific from a perfectly timed scout.

Noticeables: Wall-in (either rax + supply, or gate/zealot/core/pylon).

Potential threats: 1-base play, an attempt to restrict scouting (usually hints at a hidden tech, but it could also be some form of 1-base timing push)

Possible responses: sac a well-timed overlord, get an observer. See which route the 1-basing player is choosing, and adapt accordingly



After writing this I realized that it might not be exactly what you're looking for, but figured that it may be of use, and that it aligned with the vague request of things that are "scoutable". It may give the scouter an advantage as this could mean the difference between a quick loss and a good defense against an early push, or a quick tech.

TrueSyzygy Profile Joined August 2010 60 Posts #10 Yeah it's not bad info imbored, I'm not too sure on how exactly to word that into the format though. Tall, dark, and... Well, two out of three ain't bad.

Anxiety Profile Blog Joined May 2010 United States 636 Posts Last Edited: 2010-08-21 05:43:13 #11



ZvT

Scout: Early-Mid Ling pokes (while going muta tech off lings), as your lair starts

Noteables: Wall off, MM, maybe some tanks/hellions

Potential threat scouted: MM, maybe tanks, hellion harass

Possible Response:More rines? Get a baneling next and delay your spire, not too much though

More rauders? Get that spire ASAP

Some Hellions? Drop 1-2 crawlers and get a spire

Some Tanks? Less Mutas, unless your muta micro versus Thors is decent (Tech Lab makes Thors accessable fast)

Thank goodness i play random, so i have a few Zerg ones.ZvTScout: Early-Mid Ling pokes (while going muta tech off lings), as your lair startsNoteables: Wall off, MM, maybe some tanks/hellionsPotential threat scouted: MM, maybe tanks, hellion harassPossible Response:More rines? Get a baneling next and delay your spire, not too much thoughMore rauders? Get that spire ASAPSome Hellions? Drop 1-2 crawlers and get a spireSome Tanks? Less Mutas, unless your muta micro versus Thors is decent (Tech Lab makes Thors accessable fast) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=145719: Muta vs Thors

TrueSyzygy Profile Joined August 2010 60 Posts #12 Thanks again AnxietE, I just put that all as one in the database, since it's all off the same basic build of biomech. Tall, dark, and... Well, two out of three ain't bad.

Anxiety Profile Blog Joined May 2010 United States 636 Posts Last Edited: 2010-08-21 06:22:13 #13 Scout: 9 pylon, scout with pylon probe

Noteables: Nothing in opponents base

Potential threat scouted: Proxy 2 gate, cannon rush

Possible Response: ??? (Help here please.)



Possible Response: For both: scout your base, hotkey probes in groups of 4 (to kill pylons/cannons building)

For Proxy 2 gate: check watch towers, check possible locations of gates (nat, 3rd, where you would proxy 2 gate), gateway ASAP+chrono zealots



for cannon rushing, you should see a forge building in his base



EDIT: after discussing with NitrOuS (Yes i know him), I think you should split the scouting response/stuff in 2. It is rather pointless to proxy the forge too, as you cant make it with the cannoning pylon. The nothing in his base=proxy gates, forge in his base= cannon rushing. dont pull too many probes to kill further proxys Possible Response: For both: scout your base, hotkey probes in groups of 4 (to kill pylons/cannons building)For Proxy 2 gate: check watch towers, check possible locations of gates (nat, 3rd, where you would proxy 2 gate), gateway ASAP+chrono zealotsfor cannon rushing, you should see a forge building in his baseEDIT: after discussing with NitrOuS (Yes i know him), I think you should split the scouting response/stuff in 2. It is rather pointless to proxy the forge too, as you cant make it with the cannoning pylon. The nothing in his base=proxy gates, forge in his base= cannon rushing. dont pull too many probes to kill further proxys

TrueSyzygy Profile Joined August 2010 60 Posts #14 Alright, added the possible resonse and split that into 2 separate occasions. I filled in my own response for proxy gating, I'm pretty sure it's correct though. It always seems to work for me. Tall, dark, and... Well, two out of three ain't bad.

TrueSyzygy Profile Joined August 2010 60 Posts #15 We need some zerg players to help add to this, Terran and Protoss have fleshed out decently, zerg has not. Tall, dark, and... Well, two out of three ain't bad.

KaiserJohan Profile Joined May 2010 Sweden 1795 Posts #16 Errr, just a note... sending barracks SCV to scout-- uh, thats abit late? Especially on 2p maps. Some people even go cheesy builds on 4p maps (I've seen even 6 pool on LT lol, top diamond).



I've made a habit of always scouting on 10th workers, unless I am playing vs Z, then its supply-depot SCV I send. You don't loose any economy worth noting and if you discover cheese early on you can deal with it much better.



England will fight to the last American

TrueSyzygy Profile Joined August 2010 60 Posts #17 Alright, erm, I'm not sure... I haven't played Terran in forever. I was just posting what other people said. Think I should change them all to a standard, such as 10th worker, pylon probe, or DepotSCV? Tall, dark, and... Well, two out of three ain't bad.

Terranist Profile Blog Joined March 2009 United States 2490 Posts #18 TvP:

scout: after barracks

noteables: one gate, one pylon, spinning core and stockpiling chrono

potential threat scouted: forward pylon 3-4 warpgate all in.

possible response: search for proxy and prepare to defend choke with bunker fortification The Show of a Lifetime

yB.TeH Profile Blog Joined November 2008 Germany 410 Posts #19 ZvT:

scout: loading screen

noteables: Terran

potential threat scouted: IMBA

possible response: fuck you imba race, leave

TrueSyzygy Profile Joined August 2010 60 Posts #20 Thank you Terranist. Qeet, everyone already knows that one so I'm not gonna add it. Tall, dark, and... Well, two out of three ain't bad.

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