She may have been born after you got your driver's license, but Maddie Ziegler—who turns thirteen in September—already has the poise of Karlie Kloss and the common sense of... well, of E. Jean. When the tiny dancer (who "isn't allowed" to wear heels) spoke with Betsey Johnson about their recent Capezio campaign, she proved herself well-versed on a variety of subjects, including eye liner, internet gossip, and staying friends with your biggest competition.

As for Dance Moms, the reality TV bitch-fest that launched her career, Ziegler seems ready to put it behind her. "I've never seen the show," said Johnson apologetically during their interview. "Don't," Ziegler replied sternly. After all, there are enough videos of the Pittsburgh native and Chandelier star on YouTube–with 1 billion views total and counting–to keep fans going for days...

Maddie, you recently appeared on Pretty Little Liars, your favorite show...

MADDIE: I want to be "A" [the show's mysterious killer]. That would be so sick. But it's kind of impossible because I would have had to start being evil when I was like, six years old. But hopefully I'll get to go back on the show, because it's my favorite... I don't even care if I'm an extra, I just want to go back!... I watch it religiously. I have a dance competition tonight but I'm recording it.

Betsey, is it true you never saw Dance Moms?

BETSEY: No, I should have, but I don't really do reality TV. When I get home, my fingers automatically use the remote to search for classic movies. So I haven't seen Dance Moms, but I do watch The Red Shoes. Do you know about that?

MADDIE: No!

BETSEY: The Red Shoes is like the original Black Swan. It's from the '40s, with Moira Shearer. You've got to see it!

Maddie, your hair is constantly in a bun, but it looks amazing in your Capezio ads. How do you protect it from damage?

MADDIE: We use a lot of hairspray, and I do leave-in conditioners sometimes. I also have to cut it frequently because it grows like crazy. When I'm dancing, it needs a lot of bobby pins... if you want that perfect "ballerina" bun, you'll need about 15; 30 for a French twist. But if you're doing a lot of tricks onstage... once, I had a really crazy [routine] and afterwards, I pulled 100 pins out of my hair... you do what you have to do to keep it in place, then repair it with leave-in conditioner afterwards.

After your Sia videos, most people assumed you'd left the competitive dance world for Hollywood. But that's not true, is it?

MADDIE: No, this whole week I'm at a dance competition! I've been auditioning all week for the finals. It's called the Dance Awards, and it's the biggest national competition. It's the first time I've done it; you have to win one of the regional competitions to advance.

Now that you're famous, do you feel like the judges are harder on you?

MADDIE: I've known the judges for a while because I've been performing in front of these people since before there was ever Dance Moms. I think, I hope, that all of the teachers don't look at me as a famous person. They just look at me as a dancer.

In these competitions, you're up against your best friends and your little sister constantly. How do you stay competitive, and also maintain your friendships?

MADDIE: Yeah, Kendall [Vertes, from Dance Moms] is still my best friend! We always support each other no matter what. When either of us wins, we're so happy for one another. We don't really talk on stage before we dance, because it makes us nervous, but once we get offstage, we're friendly again. I think it's good to stay competitive but also stay friendly because you could lose them if you're rude.... and we learn off each other all the time, dance things but also real-life things. And sometimes we'll bicker about something but then two seconds later we're like, "We're best friends. This doesn't matter!"

What has dancing taught you about fashion?

BETSEY: Oh, everything. Everything!

MADDIE: Me too, really. It's taught me that what's comfortable and what's cool can be the same thing, and that you should get dressed for yourself, not for anyone else... The way you dance for yourself.

BETSEY: I grew up dancing. When I moved to New York City, I wanted to be a Rockette. That didn't happen... but I carried dance into my clothing collections, always. And in this Capezio collection, you can wear it on the street, you can wear it to dance class, you can even wear the tutu to prom, I think! Maddie, do you tap?

MADDIE: I love tap!

BETSEY: I learned to tap from Ann Pimm. She was an incredible dancer. She was in the original cast of Pal Joey on Broadway. She taught me everything, and I believe she's 92 now. I can only pray she'll come to our September fashion show, because it's going to be dedicated to her. It's going to be all about dance... Maddie, have you ever danced during a fashion show?

MADDIE: Not yet.

BETSEY: I'm going to need some great dancers... and Maddie is a beautiful dancer... every once in a while, miracles happen, and right now, that miracle is Maddie.

Faran Krentcil Editor at Large, ELLE.com "Her beauty and her brain go not together." —William Shakespeare

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