RuMCaKe Profile Blog Joined November 2010 United States 557 Posts Last Edited: 2012-02-17 09:36:29 #1 ESEA,



This was my first season participating in your league, as well as the organization I work for. Upon hearing the Starcraft II results from ESEA’s last season, I was a bit skeptical while signing up. Last season, due to a lack of ESEA rules and enforcement, the season playoffs did not finish till about 3 or 4 weeks after the scheduled time. Teams did not and were not forced to play their matches on time causing such a delay in the overall playoff and finals. Finally, since the next season of ESEA was right around the corner, you decided to put your foot down once and for all and gave the remaining teams a deadline to finish the last few matches of ESEA Season 9. This led to the forfeit of Evil Genius in the league’s grand final match versus Check-Six. It just so happens that EG had to go to IPL during ESEA’s ultimatum deadline. EG planned to play from the lan but unfortunately IPL suffered an internet failure, thus unable to play at the scheduled day and time.



ESEA did not hesitate to forfeit EG.



It became a controversial decision that many people may or may not agree with. But I decided to join knowing that ESEA will do everything in their power this time to ensure that the same mistakes will not be made. And this season has been adhering to the schedule and it ran smooth—till the grand finals. I believed that if my team and I followed the rules written by ESEA, we would not be penalized.



I was sorely mistaken. My team is being penalized for adhering to ESEA’s rules.



When you made the bracket in the start of the playoffs, the default days and times were set in stone and posted for everyone to see. Per ESEA rules:



"Un-agreeable Match Offers - if both team captains cannot agree upon a new match time within 24 hours of the default match time, the match will automatically be assigned to the divisional default match time."



This above quote is the fourth bullet point in your rules, under the "Match Scheduling" section. These default days and times are meant to resolve scheduling discrepancies. They are made in the case that two teams cannot agree on a date and time.



Now here in the ESEA SC2 season 3 finals, despite the bracket being online since the beginning of January, Check-Six was unable to play on the default time and day –2/16 at 10pmEST. After about 24 hours of back and forth banter, me being told several times by your one and only Starcraft admin that they need to play today and follow ESEA rules, you have decided to change your rules at the last minute and forced a reschedule.



I am deeply bothered and saddened by this for many reasons. For starters I would like to include some of the logs and messages stating that the decision was made to have both teams play on the default day and time.



In the beginning of playoffs, Dabearsiner (ESEA Admin), sent all the teams and players a message stating:



“As for format, it is the same as the season with the playoff bracket being double elimination. Keep in note:



The default match time for all playoff matches is 10:00 pm EST and must be played +- 24 hours from the scheduled match time. For example, if the default day for your match is April 3rd, you can play the match anywhere between April 2nd at 10 EST until April 4th at 10 EST. You cannot play before and you cannot play after the +- 24 hour window, so re-arrange your work schedules, dates, or anything else that can conflict with this. Don't ask for a special treatment, because it won't be done. We do this to ensure we end the playoffs on time and it does not delay Season 11 preparation.

This goes for all teams, failure to play or report matches will be forfeited. If anyone has any questions please msg me on skype or email me at dabears@esportsea.com”



And skype logs from the admin stating:



[2/15/12 12:24:52 AM] dabearsniner: both teams want the best lineup

[2/15/12 12:25:08 AM] dabearsniner: but the rules state, if both teams dont agree to a time, it goes to default time and date



Finally, the ESEA’s owner agreeing to stick with the ESEA rules and play on the default day and time after hearing a petition from Check-Six to reschedule the final match.



I thought things had resolved.



We were prepared to play tonight (2/16). We were also told that if Check-six didn't submit a lineup by 10:15 EST on the 16th of February, that the finals would be a walk over. A walk over finals is not what we wanted, but unfortunately I have several of my players traveling over the next coming 2-3 weeks. This being said, in a match for this amount of money, for me to make the decision of sacrificing my starting lineup would have been a very poor one. Understandably, Check-six was fighting to ensure that they have the best lineup and time also, but I made sure ahead of time that our players would be ready and rearrange their schedules for the ESEA finals.



On 2/16 at around 10:35 EST, roughly 20 minutes after we were told we would receive a WO you brought me into a call, explaining to me that you were going to change your rules. You asked why we were unable to postpone, and I stated that I had players traveling, and it wasn't going to work for us. That was apparently not a good enough reason to postpone a final. Actually we were not even TRYING to postpone it. We just wanted to play at the default time that both teams knew well in advanced about.



We learned from the last season that not having stricter rules caused the final WO controversy. You forced the ruling last season in Check-six’s favor against EG claiming the new season is starting soon. You would not allow them to postpone it for a day even though that would not interfere with the new season.



But now, you want to reschedule our finals because “[ESEA] reserve the right to change, modify, or adapt all rules as deemed appropriate by ESEA in order to uphold and maintain a spirit of overall fairness and good sportsmanship.” Why was this grace not given to EG in the spirit of overall fairness? Why is this fairness not upheld when we stated clearly that we are overbooked and missing players for the next 2 weeks? Why were we not warned of the reschedule ahead of time?



At the end of our call today, ESEA, you asked me if you could sit down and speak with me tomorrow regarding what you could do to make it better next season. My only advice to you is simple: Consistency. If you are going to set rules, have them be followed at all times. Don't change them when you feel it might be a good idea. When you make a decision, do not tell someone the decision and then change your mind. If you can't follow your own rules, or stick to your own decisions, how can you expect anyone else to?



Scott "GoSuRuM" Ball

twitter.com/RuMCaKeS

HaruRH Profile Blog Joined August 2011 Singapore 2644 Posts #2 Sounds like ESEA is setting double standards this time. If they really do something like this, it is totally unfair to EG that you guys could get reschedules while EG get forfeited when they only need an extra day. Wow. It is fucking D4 and you are still alive as a CONFIRMED FUCKING TOWN. This is how fucking terrible scum thinks you are - Koshi

T.O.P. Profile Blog Joined January 2009 Hong Kong 4684 Posts #3 That's ESEA. What happened to improved coverage of the league. I haven't seen anything ESEA since the EG incident. Oracle comes in, Scvs go down, never a miscommunication.

StimiLant Profile Blog Joined July 2006 United States 514 Posts #4 i remember being at ipl3 and during the power outtage, i remember the majority of the EG players saying "well this is something EG cannot control and we hope ESEA understands and can reschedule." ESEA however ultimately decided to DQ EG and award the final winning to xSix. now as a paying team to compete in ESEA wouldnt u who paid money be pretty upset at the final outcome? It amazes me at how ESEA is run and idiotic this league seems to be, it even further amazes me that teams actually pay money to compete in this absurd league.

GUFireFlash Profile Blog Joined January 2011 United States 332 Posts #5 I fully agree with Rum on this, more organizations need to uphold their rules and guidelines and be more organized. GamerUniversity.com Owner / It's GoSu Staff / http://twitch.tv/GamerUniversity

Wroshe Profile Joined June 2011 Netherlands 1049 Posts #6 Ah, interesting, double standards. You'd almost get the impression that ESEA is either run by idiots or by people that get a share of the x6 prize money.



I'm going to guess that ESEA is competly finished now though as any credibitility they had should be gone now.

Zooper31 Profile Joined May 2009 United States 5063 Posts #7 Like to hear ESEA's explanation as to why their only consistency is bending and making rules in Check-Six's favor.



I'd demand a refund if my team got DQ for following the rules and proceed to make sure no one I know ever plays in their tourney again. Asato ma sad gamaya, tamaso ma jyotir gamaya, mrtyor mamrtam gamaya

Logros Profile Joined September 2010 Netherlands 9827 Posts Last Edited: 2012-02-17 10:05:41 #8 This is pretty ridiculous. Sounds like they are great friends with Check-Six.

KawaiiRice Profile Blog Joined May 2007 United States 2908 Posts #9

Nice ESEA! w.o win for checksix season 2, reschedule for checksix season 3.Nice ESEA! @KawaiiRiceLighT

Incursus Profile Blog Joined May 2010 United States 415 Posts #10 Well, ESEA does not appear to have gotten their act together yet :/ . Sorry to hear about your issues sir, best of luck to you in getting it resolved. Don't be surprised when a crack in the ice...appears under your feet.

YuTz Profile Joined September 2010 United States 119 Posts Last Edited: 2012-02-17 10:16:17 #11 Checksix is directly involved with ESEA... FYI... I had similair issues over a year ago when rules were not followed and ESEA protected them over it. I love Checksix and Kurt and everyone there but it is an issue ESEA has yet to address.



Forgot to mention, back over a year ago one of the ESEA admins was a part of Checksix. I don't know the current status of that to date. Old School.....

Angelbelow Profile Joined September 2010 United States 3727 Posts #12 More controversy from ESEA. Sounds like they didn't improve much on any level. I had no idea they were even running a tournament and now theres talk of inconsistency and problems with their ruling once again. You may delay, but time will not. Current Music obsession: Opeth

Pankakke Profile Joined December 2011 1 Post #13 Wow. ESEA utterly contradicted themselves in a way that seems biased towards Check-Six. This is not how to run a Starcraft 2 tournament. Stuff like this is terrible for the future of e-sports and needs to be rectified.

KeyHunt Profile Joined August 2010 United States 217 Posts #14



This comes down to a few things. First off, ESEA is not exactly the best-running league in the world right now and I think they are well-aware of that. However, it also has to do with the fact that your team saying you are honestly not able to reschedule to play 4 games...4 games in an entirety of over 3 weeks is proposterous and anyone with a little common sense knows it. It was nothing more than trying to get a walkover in the grand finals of a league when we were given PLENTY of time by ESEA to reschedule it to where both teams could find a time to play. You say all of your players are busy for the next 3 weeks yet after ESEA made their decision and explained it to us you have already schedule 3 out of the 4 matches we were supposed to play to begin with..what changed as soon as they made the decision? Schedule all of a sudden clear up? Give me a break.



CheckSix has been on time, willing to play for all their matches and playoff matches every-time. However, asking us to play a grand finals match with only 2 days notice ( which was the default day of this match ) after beating Light in the loser's bracket is simply not possible. I advise everyone in the community to demand more of ESEA. However, I also advise those in the community to demand more of the teams they support...actively searching for a walkover in the grand finals of a league we both have been working on for months is not something that should be done.





It amazes me the inacurrcies that people either believe simply by hearing it in a forum post, or just don't care to look into. Comparing this instance to what happened last season is ridiculous. First off, the only reason we were given a walkover last season is because ESEA was already WEEKS behind because of allowing EG and others to reschedule their matches repeeatedly while we waited for a loser's bracket winner. People also seem to think we wanted the walk-over..we pleaded with ESEA to let us play it but they said they absolutely could not because it was already put behind so much and was running into the next season. At least get the facts straight in your open letter.This comes down to a few things. First off, ESEA is not exactly the best-running league in the world right now and I think they are well-aware of that. However, it also has to do with the fact that your team saying you are honestly not able to reschedule to play 4 games...4 games in an entirety of over 3 weeks is proposterous and anyone with a little common sense knows it. It was nothing more than trying to get a walkover in the grand finals of a league when we were given PLENTY of time by ESEA to reschedule it to where both teams could find a time to play. You say all of your players are busy for the next 3 weeks yet after ESEA made their decision and explained it to us you have already schedule 3 out of the 4 matches we were supposed to play to begin with..what changed as soon as they made the decision? Schedule all of a sudden clear up? Give me a break.CheckSix has been on time, willing to play for all their matches and playoff matches every-time. However, asking us to play a grand finals match with only 2 days notice ( which was the default day of this match ) after beating Light in the loser's bracket is simply not possible. I advise everyone in the community to demand more of ESEA. However, I also advise those in the community to demand more of the teams they support...actively searching for a walkover in the grand finals of a league we both have been working on for months is not something that should be done. On February 17 2012 19:14 YuTz wrote:

Checksix is directly involved with ESEA... FYI... I had similair issues over a year ago when rules were not followed and ESEA protected them over it. I love Checksix and Kurt and everyone there but it is an issue ESEA has yet to address.



Forgot to mention, back over a year ago one of the ESEA admins was a part of Checksix. I don't know the current status of that to date.



Don't be ridiculous. We are no more "directly involved with ESEA" than Quantic is who has a TF2 team in the league...that's where our affiliation is. We have enough people making shit up as it goes; we don't need you too.

Don't be ridiculous. We are no more "directly involved with ESEA" than Quantic is who has a TF2 team in the league...that's where our affiliation is. We have enough people making shit up as it goes; we don't need you too.

RuMCaKe Profile Blog Joined November 2010 United States 557 Posts Last Edited: 2012-02-17 10:31:56 #15 On February 17 2012 19:25 KeyHunt wrote:

It amazes me the inacurrcies that people either believe simply by hearing it in a forum post, or just don't care to look into. Comparing this instance to what happened last season is ridiculous. First off, the only reason we were given a walkover last season is because ESEA was already WEEKS behind because of allowing EG and others to reschedule their matches repeeatedly while we waited for a loser's bracket winner. People also seem to think we wanted the walk-over..we pleaded with ESEA to let us play it but they said they absolutely could not because it was already put behind so much and was running into the next season. At least get the facts straight in your open letter.



This comes down to a few things. First off, ESEA is not exactly the best-running league in the world right now and I think they are well-aware of that. However, it also has to do with the fact that your team saying you are honestly not able to reschedule to play 4 games...4 games in an entirety of over 3 weeks is proposterous and anyone with a little common sense knows it. It was nothing more than trying to get a walkover in the grand finals of a league when we were given PLENTY of time by ESEA to reschedule it to where both teams could find a time to play. You say all of your players are busy for the next 3 weeks yet after ESEA made their decision and explained it to us you have already schedule 3 out of the 4 matches we were supposed to play to begin with..what changed as soon as they made the decision? Schedule all of a sudden clear up? Give me a break.



CheckSix has been on time, willing to play for all their matches and playoff matches every-time. However, asking us to play a grand finals match with only 2 days notice ( which was the default day of this match ) after beating Light in the loser's bracket is simply not possible. I advise everyone in the community to demand more of ESEA. However, I also advise those in the community to demand more of the teams they support...actively searching for a walkover in the grand finals of a league we both have been working on for months is not something that should be done.





Show nested quote +

On February 17 2012 19:14 YuTz wrote:

Checksix is directly involved with ESEA... FYI... I had similair issues over a year ago when rules were not followed and ESEA protected them over it. I love Checksix and Kurt and everyone there but it is an issue ESEA has yet to address.



Forgot to mention, back over a year ago one of the ESEA admins was a part of Checksix. I don't know the current status of that to date.



Don't be ridiculous. We are no more "directly involved with ESEA" than Quantic is who has a TF2 team in the league...that's where our affiliation is. We have enough people making shit up as it goes; we don't need you too.

It amazes me the inacurrcies that people either believe simply by hearing it in a forum post, or just don't care to look into. Comparing this instance to what happened last season is ridiculous. First off, the only reason we were given a walkover last season is because ESEA was already WEEKS behind because of allowing EG and others to reschedule their matches repeeatedly while we waited for a loser's bracket winner. People also seem to think we wanted the walk-over..we pleaded with ESEA to let us play it but they said they absolutely could not because it was already put behind so much and was running into the next season. At least get the facts straight in your open letter.This comes down to a few things. First off, ESEA is not exactly the best-running league in the world right now and I think they are well-aware of that. However, it also has to do with the fact that your team saying you are honestly not able to reschedule to play 4 games...4 games in an entirety of over 3 weeks is proposterous and anyone with a little common sense knows it. It was nothing more than trying to get a walkover in the grand finals of a league when we were given PLENTY of time by ESEA to reschedule it to where both teams could find a time to play. You say all of your players are busy for the next 3 weeks yet after ESEA made their decision and explained it to us you have already schedule 3 out of the 4 matches we were supposed to play to begin with..what changed as soon as they made the decision? Schedule all of a sudden clear up? Give me a break.CheckSix has been on time, willing to play for all their matches and playoff matches every-time. However, asking us to play a grand finals match with only 2 days notice ( which was the default day of this match ) after beating Light in the loser's bracket is simply not possible. I advise everyone in the community to demand more of ESEA. However, I also advise those in the community to demand more of the teams they support...actively searching for a walkover in the grand finals of a league we both have been working on for months is not something that should be done.Don't be ridiculous. We are no more "directly involved with ESEA" than Quantic is who has a TF2 team in the league...that's where our affiliation is. We have enough people making shit up as it goes; we don't need you too.



Hey Keyhunt, I didn't write a letter to x6, I'd rather leave my dissagrements with x6 out of this, no real point. We asked you guys to play on 2 days notice? The bracket was posted in the end of December with the date and time of the finals, and you postponed your match with Light. If you would have played your match vs Light on time, then you would have had a week to prepare, either way the date was posted over 6 weeks ago.

Hey Keyhunt, I didn't write a letter to x6, I'd rather leave my dissagrements with x6 out of this, no real point. We asked you guys to play on 2 days notice? The bracket was posted in the end of December with the date and time of the finals, and you postponed your match with Light. If you would have played your match vs Light on time, then you would have had a week to prepare, either way the date was posted over 6 weeks ago. twitter.com/RuMCaKeS

KeyHunt Profile Joined August 2010 United States 217 Posts #16 On February 17 2012 19:29 RuMCaKe wrote:

Show nested quote +

On February 17 2012 19:25 KeyHunt wrote:

It amazes me the inacurrcies that people either believe simply by hearing it in a forum post, or just don't care to look into. Comparing this instance to what happened last season is ridiculous. First off, the only reason we were given a walkover last season is because ESEA was already WEEKS behind because of allowing EG and others to reschedule their matches repeeatedly while we waited for a loser's bracket winner. People also seem to think we wanted the walk-over..we pleaded with ESEA to let us play it but they said they absolutely could not because it was already put behind so much and was running into the next season. At least get the facts straight in your open letter.



This comes down to a few things. First off, ESEA is not exactly the best-running league in the world right now and I think they are well-aware of that. However, it also has to do with the fact that your team saying you are honestly not able to reschedule to play 4 games...4 games in an entirety of over 3 weeks is proposterous and anyone with a little common sense knows it. It was nothing more than trying to get a walkover in the grand finals of a league when we were given PLENTY of time by ESEA to reschedule it to where both teams could find a time to play. You say all of your players are busy for the next 3 weeks yet after ESEA made their decision and explained it to us you have already schedule 3 out of the 4 matches we were supposed to play to begin with..what changed as soon as they made the decision? Schedule all of a sudden clear up? Give me a break.



CheckSix has been on time, willing to play for all their matches and playoff matches every-time. However, asking us to play a grand finals match with only 2 days notice ( which was the default day of this match ) after beating Light in the loser's bracket is simply not possible. I advise everyone in the community to demand more of ESEA. However, I also advise those in the community to demand more of the teams they support...actively searching for a walkover in the grand finals of a league we both have been working on for months is not something that should be done.





On February 17 2012 19:14 YuTz wrote:

Checksix is directly involved with ESEA... FYI... I had similair issues over a year ago when rules were not followed and ESEA protected them over it. I love Checksix and Kurt and everyone there but it is an issue ESEA has yet to address.



Forgot to mention, back over a year ago one of the ESEA admins was a part of Checksix. I don't know the current status of that to date.



Don't be ridiculous. We are no more "directly involved with ESEA" than Quantic is who has a TF2 team in the league...that's where our affiliation is. We have enough people making shit up as it goes; we don't need you too.

It amazes me the inacurrcies that people either believe simply by hearing it in a forum post, or just don't care to look into. Comparing this instance to what happened last season is ridiculous. First off, the only reason we were given a walkover last season is because ESEA was already WEEKS behind because of allowing EG and others to reschedule their matches repeeatedly while we waited for a loser's bracket winner. People also seem to think we wanted the walk-over..we pleaded with ESEA to let us play it but they said they absolutely could not because it was already put behind so much and was running into the next season. At least get the facts straight in your open letter.This comes down to a few things. First off, ESEA is not exactly the best-running league in the world right now and I think they are well-aware of that. However, it also has to do with the fact that your team saying you are honestly not able to reschedule to play 4 games...4 games in an entirety of over 3 weeks is proposterous and anyone with a little common sense knows it. It was nothing more than trying to get a walkover in the grand finals of a league when we were given PLENTY of time by ESEA to reschedule it to where both teams could find a time to play. You say all of your players are busy for the next 3 weeks yet after ESEA made their decision and explained it to us you have already schedule 3 out of the 4 matches we were supposed to play to begin with..what changed as soon as they made the decision? Schedule all of a sudden clear up? Give me a break.CheckSix has been on time, willing to play for all their matches and playoff matches every-time. However, asking us to play a grand finals match with only 2 days notice ( which was the default day of this match ) after beating Light in the loser's bracket is simply not possible. I advise everyone in the community to demand more of ESEA. However, I also advise those in the community to demand more of the teams they support...actively searching for a walkover in the grand finals of a league we both have been working on for months is not something that should be done.Don't be ridiculous. We are no more "directly involved with ESEA" than Quantic is who has a TF2 team in the league...that's where our affiliation is. We have enough people making shit up as it goes; we don't need you too.



Hey Keyhunt, I didn't right a letter to x6, I'd rather leave my dissagrements with x6 out of this, no real point. We asked you guys to play on 2 days notice? The bracket was posted in the end of December with the date and time of the finals, and you postponed your match with Light. If you would have played your match vs Light on time, then you would have had a week to prepare, either way the date was posted over 6 weeks ago.

Hey Keyhunt, I didn't right a letter to x6, I'd rather leave my dissagrements with x6 out of this, no real point. We asked you guys to play on 2 days notice? The bracket was posted in the end of December with the date and time of the finals, and you postponed your match with Light. If you would have played your match vs Light on time, then you would have had a week to prepare, either way the date was posted over 6 weeks ago.



Whether you wrote a letter to us or not, doesn't matter. You are trying to make this our like you guys are the saints and have no wrong in this. Actively searching for a walkover in the grand finals of a league is wrong; no matter how you look at it. So no, we're not going to allow you to pretend to be squeaky clean here. Yes, the date and time of the finals were posted but we could have knew it weeks beforehand..it didn't matter. You guys refuse to reschedule from default days; and we couldn't field the players needed yesterday..no matter how early we knew about it..it didn't matter. So, most reasonable teams reschedule to when a team can actually play it..just like Light did. ( which was only a few days later ). We also didn't explicitly ask Light to reschedule..they requested as well.

Whether you wrote a letter to us or not, doesn't matter. You are trying to make this our like you guys are the saints and have no wrong in this. Actively searching for a walkover in the grand finals of a league is wrong; no matter how you look at it. So no, we're not going to allow you to pretend to be squeaky clean here. Yes, the date and time of the finals were posted but we could have knew it weeks beforehand..it didn't matter. You guys refuse to reschedule from default days; and we couldn't field the players needed yesterday..no matter how early we knew about it..it didn't matter. So, most reasonable teams reschedule to when a team can actually play it..just like Light did. ( which was only a few days later ). We also didn't explicitly ask Light to reschedule..they requested as well.

JDizz6688 Profile Blog Joined November 2007 United States 175 Posts Last Edited: 2012-02-17 10:37:30 #17 alittle late JDizzPANiC.806 Diamond Z NA Let's SC 2

aquanda Profile Joined January 2003 United States 476 Posts #18 On February 17 2012 18:28 RuMCaKe wrote:

ESEA,



This was my first season participating in your league, as well as the organization I work for. Upon hearing the Starcraft II results from ESEA’s last season, I was a bit skeptical while signing up. Last season, due to a lack of ESEA rules and enforcement, the season playoffs did not finish till about 3 or 4 weeks after the scheduled time. Teams did not and were not forced to play their matches on time causing such a delay in the overall playoff and finals. Finally, since the next season of ESEA was right around the corner, you decided to put your foot down once and for all and gave the remaining teams a deadline to finish the last few matches of ESEA Season 9. This led to the forfeit of Evil Genius in the league’s grand final match versus Check-Six. It just so happens that EG had to go to IPL during ESEA’s ultimatum deadline. EG planned to play from the lan but unfortunately IPL suffered an internet failure, thus unable to play at the scheduled day and time.



ESEA did not hesitate to forfeit EG.



It became a controversial decision that many people may or may not agree with. But I decided to join knowing that ESEA will do everything in their power this time to ensure that the same mistakes will not be made. And this season has been adhering to the schedule and it ran smooth—till the grand finals. I believed that if my team and I followed the rules written by ESEA, we would not be penalized.



I was sorely mistaken. My team is being penalized for adhering to ESEA’s rules.



When you made the bracket in the start of the playoffs, the default days and times were set in stone and posted for everyone to see. Per ESEA rules:



"Un-agreeable Match Offers - if both team captains cannot agree upon a new match time within 24 hours of the default match time, the match will automatically be assigned to the divisional default match time."



This above quote is the fourth bullet point in your rules, under the "Match Scheduling" section. These default days and times are meant to resolve scheduling discrepancies. They are made in the case that two teams cannot agree on a date and time.



Now here in the ESEA SC2 season 3 finals, despite the bracket being online since the beginning of January, Check-Six was unable to play on the default time and day –2/16 at 10pmEST. After about 24 hours of back and forth banter, me being told several times by your one and only Starcraft admin that they need to play today and follow ESEA rules, you have decided to change your rules at the last minute and forced a reschedule.



I am deeply bothered and saddened by this for many reasons. For starters I would like to include some of the logs and messages stating that the decision was made to have both teams play on the default day and time.



In the beginning of playoffs, Dabearsiner (ESEA Admin), sent all the teams and players a message stating:



“As for format, it is the same as the season with the playoff bracket being double elimination. Keep in note:



The default match time for all playoff matches is 10:00 pm EST and must be played +- 24 hours from the scheduled match time. For example, if the default day for your match is April 3rd, you can play the match anywhere between April 2nd at 10 EST until April 4th at 10 EST. You cannot play before and you cannot play after the +- 24 hour window, so re-arrange your work schedules, dates, or anything else that can conflict with this. Don't ask for a special treatment, because it won't be done. We do this to ensure we end the playoffs on time and it does not delay Season 11 preparation.

This goes for all teams, failure to play or report matches will be forfeited. If anyone has any questions please msg me on skype or email me at dabears@esportsea.com”



And skype logs from the admin stating:



[2/15/12 12:24:52 AM] dabearsniner: both teams want the best lineup

[2/15/12 12:25:08 AM] dabearsniner: but the rules state, if both teams dont agree to a time, it goes to default time and date



Finally, the ESEA’s owner agreeing to stick with the ESEA rules and play on the default day and time after hearing a petition from Check-Six to reschedule the final match.



I thought things had resolved.



We were prepared to play tonight (2/16). We were also told that if Check-six didn't submit a lineup by 10:15 EST on the 16th of February, that the finals would be a walk over. A walk over finals is not what we wanted, but unfortunately I have several of my players traveling over the next coming 2-3 weeks. This being said, in a match for this amount of money, for me to make the decision of sacrificing my starting lineup would have been a very poor one. Understandably, Check-six was fighting to ensure that they have the best lineup and time also, but I made sure ahead of time that our players would be ready and rearrange their schedules for the ESEA finals.



On 2/16 at around 10:35 EST, roughly 20 minutes after we were told we would receive a WO you brought me into a call, explaining to me that you were going to change your rules. You asked why we were unable to postpone, and I stated that I had players traveling, and it wasn't going to work for us. That was apparently not a good enough reason to postpone a final. Actually we were not even TRYING to postpone it. We just wanted to play at the default time that both teams knew well in advanced about.



We learned from the last season that not having stricter rules caused the final WO controversy. You forced the ruling last season in Check-six’s favor against EG claiming the new season is starting soon. You would not allow them to postpone it for a day even though that would not interfere with the new season.



But now, you want to reschedule our finals because “[ESEA] reserve the right to change, modify, or adapt all rules as deemed appropriate by ESEA in order to uphold and maintain a spirit of overall fairness and good sportsmanship.” Why was this grace not given to EG in the spirit of overall fairness? Why is this fairness not upheld when we stated clearly that we are overbooked and missing players for the next 2 weeks? Why were we not warned of the reschedule ahead of time?



At the end of our call today, ESEA, you asked me if you could sit down and speak with me tomorrow regarding what you could do to make it better next season. My only advice to you is simple: Consistency. If you are going to set rules, have them be followed at all times. Don't change them when you feel it might be a good idea. When you make a decision, do not tell someone the decision and then change your mind. If you can't follow your own rules, or stick to your own decisions, how can you expect anyone else to?



Scott "GoSuRuM" Ball



Your "facts" are not facts, which pretty much invalidates your entire thesis. Check Six gave EG several weeks of a grace period last season and eventually ESEA pulled the rug out under them. This season, ESEA was willing to give both teams THREE weeks of a grace period (I might add that Check Six has been on time with every single one of our matches throughout the entire season, including the playoffs) to play their matches.



Check Six has players that are very busy with school and have very little time outside of the weekend to set aside multiple hours for SC2 and was only able to field 2 out of the 5 players from our A team lineup at the "default time" due to the very short turn around between our semi-finals match against LighT. I will also add that up until now every other team has been extremely accommodating in regards to match time/date flexibility. I don't think I've ever seen this much drama occur over a simple scheduling of a league match aside from Xeris and the NASL thing a few weeks ago where iS was supposedly punished for showing up late (I am just referring to the drama, not the actual events that occurred which are simply speculation afaik).



From my standpoint, iG is simply refusing the put forth a minimal amount of effort to accommodate both ESEA and Check Six to provide the community with a high quality SC2 season finals. I know that dabears, who runs the SC2 division, wants nothing more than to show the community the best he can. By being so unbelievably difficult that within THREE WEEKS you cannot field 4 players to play 4 best of 3's (at any time, not all at once) shows an extreme lack of consideration towards both the league, players, teams, and the fans. Your "facts" are not facts, which pretty much invalidates your entire thesis. Check Six gave EG several weeks of a grace period last season and eventually ESEA pulled the rug out under them. This season,(I might add that Check Six has been on time with every single one of our matches throughout the entire season, including the playoffs) to play their matches.Check Six has players that are very busy with school and have very little time outside of the weekend to set aside multiple hours for SC2 and was only able to field 2 out of the 5 players from our A team lineup at the "default time" due to the very short turn around between our semi-finals match against LighT. I will also add that up until now every other team has been extremely accommodating in regards to match time/date flexibility. I don't think I've ever seen this much drama occur over a simple scheduling of a league match aside from Xeris and the NASL thing a few weeks ago where iS was supposedly punished for showing up late (I am just referring to the drama, not the actual events that occurred which are simply speculation afaik).From my standpoint, iG is simply refusing the put forth a minimal amount of effort to accommodate both ESEA and Check Six to provide the community with a high quality SC2 season finals. I know that dabears, who runs the SC2 division, wants nothing more than to show the community the best he can. By being so unbelievably difficult that within THREE WEEKS you cannot field 4 players to play 4 best of 3's () shows an extreme lack of consideration towards both the league, players, teams, and the fans.

RuMCaKe Profile Blog Joined November 2010 United States 557 Posts #19 On February 17 2012 19:32 KeyHunt wrote:

Show nested quote +

On February 17 2012 19:29 RuMCaKe wrote:

On February 17 2012 19:25 KeyHunt wrote:

It amazes me the inacurrcies that people either believe simply by hearing it in a forum post, or just don't care to look into. Comparing this instance to what happened last season is ridiculous. First off, the only reason we were given a walkover last season is because ESEA was already WEEKS behind because of allowing EG and others to reschedule their matches repeeatedly while we waited for a loser's bracket winner. People also seem to think we wanted the walk-over..we pleaded with ESEA to let us play it but they said they absolutely could not because it was already put behind so much and was running into the next season. At least get the facts straight in your open letter.



This comes down to a few things. First off, ESEA is not exactly the best-running league in the world right now and I think they are well-aware of that. However, it also has to do with the fact that your team saying you are honestly not able to reschedule to play 4 games...4 games in an entirety of over 3 weeks is proposterous and anyone with a little common sense knows it. It was nothing more than trying to get a walkover in the grand finals of a league when we were given PLENTY of time by ESEA to reschedule it to where both teams could find a time to play. You say all of your players are busy for the next 3 weeks yet after ESEA made their decision and explained it to us you have already schedule 3 out of the 4 matches we were supposed to play to begin with..what changed as soon as they made the decision? Schedule all of a sudden clear up? Give me a break.



CheckSix has been on time, willing to play for all their matches and playoff matches every-time. However, asking us to play a grand finals match with only 2 days notice ( which was the default day of this match ) after beating Light in the loser's bracket is simply not possible. I advise everyone in the community to demand more of ESEA. However, I also advise those in the community to demand more of the teams they support...actively searching for a walkover in the grand finals of a league we both have been working on for months is not something that should be done.





On February 17 2012 19:14 YuTz wrote:

Checksix is directly involved with ESEA... FYI... I had similair issues over a year ago when rules were not followed and ESEA protected them over it. I love Checksix and Kurt and everyone there but it is an issue ESEA has yet to address.



Forgot to mention, back over a year ago one of the ESEA admins was a part of Checksix. I don't know the current status of that to date.



Don't be ridiculous. We are no more "directly involved with ESEA" than Quantic is who has a TF2 team in the league...that's where our affiliation is. We have enough people making shit up as it goes; we don't need you too.

It amazes me the inacurrcies that people either believe simply by hearing it in a forum post, or just don't care to look into. Comparing this instance to what happened last season is ridiculous. First off, the only reason we were given a walkover last season is because ESEA was already WEEKS behind because of allowing EG and others to reschedule their matches repeeatedly while we waited for a loser's bracket winner. People also seem to think we wanted the walk-over..we pleaded with ESEA to let us play it but they said they absolutely could not because it was already put behind so much and was running into the next season. At least get the facts straight in your open letter.This comes down to a few things. First off, ESEA is not exactly the best-running league in the world right now and I think they are well-aware of that. However, it also has to do with the fact that your team saying you are honestly not able to reschedule to play 4 games...4 games in an entirety of over 3 weeks is proposterous and anyone with a little common sense knows it. It was nothing more than trying to get a walkover in the grand finals of a league when we were given PLENTY of time by ESEA to reschedule it to where both teams could find a time to play. You say all of your players are busy for the next 3 weeks yet after ESEA made their decision and explained it to us you have already schedule 3 out of the 4 matches we were supposed to play to begin with..what changed as soon as they made the decision? Schedule all of a sudden clear up? Give me a break.CheckSix has been on time, willing to play for all their matches and playoff matches every-time. However, asking us to play a grand finals match with only 2 days notice ( which was the default day of this match ) after beating Light in the loser's bracket is simply not possible. I advise everyone in the community to demand more of ESEA. However, I also advise those in the community to demand more of the teams they support...actively searching for a walkover in the grand finals of a league we both have been working on for months is not something that should be done.Don't be ridiculous. We are no more "directly involved with ESEA" than Quantic is who has a TF2 team in the league...that's where our affiliation is. We have enough people making shit up as it goes; we don't need you too.



Hey Keyhunt, I didn't right a letter to x6, I'd rather leave my dissagrements with x6 out of this, no real point. We asked you guys to play on 2 days notice? The bracket was posted in the end of December with the date and time of the finals, and you postponed your match with Light. If you would have played your match vs Light on time, then you would have had a week to prepare, either way the date was posted over 6 weeks ago.

Hey Keyhunt, I didn't right a letter to x6, I'd rather leave my dissagrements with x6 out of this, no real point. We asked you guys to play on 2 days notice? The bracket was posted in the end of December with the date and time of the finals, and you postponed your match with Light. If you would have played your match vs Light on time, then you would have had a week to prepare, either way the date was posted over 6 weeks ago.



Whether you wrote a letter to us or not, doesn't matter. You are trying to make this our like you guys are the saints and have no wrong in this. Actively searching for a walkover in the grand finals of a league is wrong; no matter how you look at it. So no, we're not going to allow you to pretend to be squeaky clean here. Yes, the date and time of the finals were posted but we could have knew it weeks beforehand..it didn't matter. You guys refuse to reschedule from default days; and we couldn't field the players needed yesterday..no matter how early we knew about it..it didn't matter. So, most reasonable teams reschedule to when a team can actually play it..just like Light did. ( which was only a few days later ). We also didn't explicitly ask Light to reschedule..they requested as well.

Whether you wrote a letter to us or not, doesn't matter. You are trying to make this our like you guys are the saints and have no wrong in this. Actively searching for a walkover in the grand finals of a league is wrong; no matter how you look at it. So no, we're not going to allow you to pretend to be squeaky clean here. Yes, the date and time of the finals were posted but we could have knew it weeks beforehand..it didn't matter. You guys refuse to reschedule from default days; and we couldn't field the players needed yesterday..no matter how early we knew about it..it didn't matter. So, most reasonable teams reschedule to when a team can actually play it..just like Light did. ( which was only a few days later ). We also didn't explicitly ask Light to reschedule..they requested as well.



We were going by the rules that ESEA states. I said in my letter we didn't want a WO in the grand finals. That wasn't the goal, I clearly explained that to your manager as well. What my players are doing over the next few weeks, is really none of your business either.

We were going by the rules that ESEA states. I said in my letter we didn't want a WO in the grand finals. That wasn't the goal, I clearly explained that to your manager as well. What my players are doing over the next few weeks, is really none of your business either. twitter.com/RuMCaKeS

KeyHunt Profile Joined August 2010 United States 217 Posts #20 On February 17 2012 19:35 RuMCaKe wrote:

Show nested quote +

On February 17 2012 19:32 KeyHunt wrote:

On February 17 2012 19:29 RuMCaKe wrote:

On February 17 2012 19:25 KeyHunt wrote:

It amazes me the inacurrcies that people either believe simply by hearing it in a forum post, or just don't care to look into. Comparing this instance to what happened last season is ridiculous. First off, the only reason we were given a walkover last season is because ESEA was already WEEKS behind because of allowing EG and others to reschedule their matches repeeatedly while we waited for a loser's bracket winner. People also seem to think we wanted the walk-over..we pleaded with ESEA to let us play it but they said they absolutely could not because it was already put behind so much and was running into the next season. At least get the facts straight in your open letter.



This comes down to a few things. First off, ESEA is not exactly the best-running league in the world right now and I think they are well-aware of that. However, it also has to do with the fact that your team saying you are honestly not able to reschedule to play 4 games...4 games in an entirety of over 3 weeks is proposterous and anyone with a little common sense knows it. It was nothing more than trying to get a walkover in the grand finals of a league when we were given PLENTY of time by ESEA to reschedule it to where both teams could find a time to play. You say all of your players are busy for the next 3 weeks yet after ESEA made their decision and explained it to us you have already schedule 3 out of the 4 matches we were supposed to play to begin with..what changed as soon as they made the decision? Schedule all of a sudden clear up? Give me a break.



CheckSix has been on time, willing to play for all their matches and playoff matches every-time. However, asking us to play a grand finals match with only 2 days notice ( which was the default day of this match ) after beating Light in the loser's bracket is simply not possible. I advise everyone in the community to demand more of ESEA. However, I also advise those in the community to demand more of the teams they support...actively searching for a walkover in the grand finals of a league we both have been working on for months is not something that should be done.





On February 17 2012 19:14 YuTz wrote:

Checksix is directly involved with ESEA... FYI... I had similair issues over a year ago when rules were not followed and ESEA protected them over it. I love Checksix and Kurt and everyone there but it is an issue ESEA has yet to address.



Forgot to mention, back over a year ago one of the ESEA admins was a part of Checksix. I don't know the current status of that to date.



Don't be ridiculous. We are no more "directly involved with ESEA" than Quantic is who has a TF2 team in the league...that's where our affiliation is. We have enough people making shit up as it goes; we don't need you too.

It amazes me the inacurrcies that people either believe simply by hearing it in a forum post, or just don't care to look into. Comparing this instance to what happened last season is ridiculous. First off, the only reason we were given a walkover last season is because ESEA was already WEEKS behind because of allowing EG and others to reschedule their matches repeeatedly while we waited for a loser's bracket winner. People also seem to think we wanted the walk-over..we pleaded with ESEA to let us play it but they said they absolutely could not because it was already put behind so much and was running into the next season. At least get the facts straight in your open letter.This comes down to a few things. First off, ESEA is not exactly the best-running league in the world right now and I think they are well-aware of that. However, it also has to do with the fact that your team saying you are honestly not able to reschedule to play 4 games...4 games in an entirety of over 3 weeks is proposterous and anyone with a little common sense knows it. It was nothing more than trying to get a walkover in the grand finals of a league when we were given PLENTY of time by ESEA to reschedule it to where both teams could find a time to play. You say all of your players are busy for the next 3 weeks yet after ESEA made their decision and explained it to us you have already schedule 3 out of the 4 matches we were supposed to play to begin with..what changed as soon as they made the decision? Schedule all of a sudden clear up? Give me a break.CheckSix has been on time, willing to play for all their matches and playoff matches every-time. However, asking us to play a grand finals match with only 2 days notice ( which was the default day of this match ) after beating Light in the loser's bracket is simply not possible. I advise everyone in the community to demand more of ESEA. However, I also advise those in the community to demand more of the teams they support...actively searching for a walkover in the grand finals of a league we both have been working on for months is not something that should be done.Don't be ridiculous. We are no more "directly involved with ESEA" than Quantic is who has a TF2 team in the league...that's where our affiliation is. We have enough people making shit up as it goes; we don't need you too.



Hey Keyhunt, I didn't right a letter to x6, I'd rather leave my dissagrements with x6 out of this, no real point. We asked you guys to play on 2 days notice? The bracket was posted in the end of December with the date and time of the finals, and you postponed your match with Light. If you would have played your match vs Light on time, then you would have had a week to prepare, either way the date was posted over 6 weeks ago.

Hey Keyhunt, I didn't right a letter to x6, I'd rather leave my dissagrements with x6 out of this, no real point. We asked you guys to play on 2 days notice? The bracket was posted in the end of December with the date and time of the finals, and you postponed your match with Light. If you would have played your match vs Light on time, then you would have had a week to prepare, either way the date was posted over 6 weeks ago.



Whether you wrote a letter to us or not, doesn't matter. You are trying to make this our like you guys are the saints and have no wrong in this. Actively searching for a walkover in the grand finals of a league is wrong; no matter how you look at it. So no, we're not going to allow you to pretend to be squeaky clean here. Yes, the date and time of the finals were posted but we could have knew it weeks beforehand..it didn't matter. You guys refuse to reschedule from default days; and we couldn't field the players needed yesterday..no matter how early we knew about it..it didn't matter. So, most reasonable teams reschedule to when a team can actually play it..just like Light did. ( which was only a few days later ). We also didn't explicitly ask Light to reschedule..they requested as well.

Whether you wrote a letter to us or not, doesn't matter. You are trying to make this our like you guys are the saints and have no wrong in this. Actively searching for a walkover in the grand finals of a league is wrong; no matter how you look at it. So no, we're not going to allow you to pretend to be squeaky clean here. Yes, the date and time of the finals were posted but we could have knew it weeks beforehand..it didn't matter. You guys refuse to reschedule from default days; and we couldn't field the players needed yesterday..no matter how early we knew about it..it didn't matter. So, most reasonable teams reschedule to when a team can actually play it..just like Light did. ( which was only a few days later ). We also didn't explicitly ask Light to reschedule..they requested as well.



We were going by the rules that ESEA states. I said in my letter we didn't want a WO in the grand finals. That wasn't the goal, I clearly explained that to your manager as well. What my players are doing over the next few weeks, is really none of your business either.

We were going by the rules that ESEA states. I said in my letter we didn't want a WO in the grand finals. That wasn't the goal, I clearly explained that to your manager as well. What my players are doing over the next few weeks, is really none of your business either.



I didn't ask what your players were doing; couldn't care less. But it's quite obvious that it's not as time-consuming as you are leading on when we already have 3 of those matches scheduled.....



Sorry, but speaking from experience this is a VERY common practice. A team cannot refuse to reschedule just to get a walkover, or because they refuse to put a little effort in. If people did that, why wouldn't everyone just refuse to reschedule and take walkovers all the time? It doesn't work like that. Leagues and tournaments have to be somewhat accomodating to players and teams..just like we were with many teams last year, including EG.



I am not arguing there are not flaws within ESEA. However, saying the flaw is not allowing a team to walkover in the grand finals when we have WEEKS to play a total of 4 matches..that's ludicrous. I didn't ask what your players were doing; couldn't care less. But it's quite obvious that it's not as time-consuming as you are leading on when we already have 3 of those matches scheduled.....Sorry, but speaking from experience this is a VERY common practice. A team cannot refuse to reschedule just to get a walkover, or because they refuse to put a little effort in. If people did that, why wouldn't everyone just refuse to reschedule and take walkovers all the time? It doesn't work like that. Leagues and tournaments have to be somewhat accomodating to players and teams..just like we were with many teams last year, including EG.I am not arguing there are not flaws within ESEA. However, saying the flaw is not allowing a team to walkover in the grand finals when we have WEEKS to play a total of 4 matches..that's ludicrous.

1 2 3 4 5 12 13 14 Next All