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Clark Kent









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Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 7:10 am Post subject: Deja Vu in 2011 with another Top Rookie PG



http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2011/12/cleveland_cavaliers_taking_bab.html



Does this all sound very familiar right now? Quote: INDEPENDENCE, Ohio - Byron Scott is temporarily tabling his Princeton offense for "organized chaos."



Scott said Tuesday he plans to run less-complex offensive sets in hopes of avoiding the adjustment period his team experienced last season. An abbreviated training camp also is working against him.



The Cavaliers are running an offense that allow for more freedom and creativity or, as Scott termed it, "organized chaos." Several players say rookie Kyrie Irving is now thriving in the modified approach.



A week ago, the coach said he would begin installing his intricate Princeton offense early this week. For now, he plans only to use its concepts on plays coming out of timeouts when Scott can properly align his team. The coach said the players were struggling with the Princeton offense during Sunday night's scrimmage.



"Guys were calling one play, but running a whole different play," Scott said. "I figured if it works we might put it in. Since it wasn't we wanted to make sure they knew exactly what was going on."



Scott had to scale back the offense last season, as well. What the Cavaliers are now running, however, seems to be to the liking of Irving. Multiple teammates have remarked how fluid the 19-year-old looks with the ball in his hands.



"Some of the things he has been doing in practice are unbelievable," forward Samardo Samuels said.



"The Q is going to have a lot of oohs and ahhs when he is playing."



Irving said the offense is similar to what the Blue Devils ran last season at Duke. Scott said that was not by design.





http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2011/12/cavaliers_comment_of_the_day_s_17.html



Quote: Byron Scott scrapping the Princeton Offense yet again a bad sign?



Cavaliers head coach Byron Scott came to town last season with his much-ballyhooed "Princeton Offense." It was met, however, with a collective "Huh?" and Scott was forced to scrap much of it.



A few days into training camp this season, Scott is scrapping it again, giving rookie Kyrie Irving more freedom, instead opting for an offense he describes as "organized chaos."



This topic has sparked a debate on cleveland.com: "The doom and gloom comes from having heard all this before. Last year it was how incredible this Princeton Offense was going to be in moving the ball around and getting everyone involved. That quickly devolved into a focus on defense, before fizzling out with an effort to get the players just to act like they cared at all. Lord Byron has this team firmly entrenched in a position to garner another top pick, which I guess given the circumstances is all we can hope for."



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Chronicle









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Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 7:11 am Post subject: There's a reason no nba team has ever won the championship playing the princeton offense

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Mike@LG









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Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 7:13 am Post subject:

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http://bball-index.com/team/lal/ Problem is they're going through A LOT of different sets. Under the triangle years of Summer Pro League, there were consistently 3-5 primary plays._________________Resident Car Nut.LeBron/Bradley/Caruso/Cook/RondoGreen/KCPKuzma/DanielsDavis/DudleyMcGee/D39

Jordan-esque









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Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 7:17 am Post subject: FREE D'ANGELO RUSSELL FROM THE PRINCETON PRISON



If Byron can scrap it for Kyrie, here's hoping he scraps it for D'Angelo.



Also that 2011 Cavs team is similar to the Lakers that they're core are all young guys: Kyrie Irving, Daniel Gibson, Alonzo Gee, Tristan Thompson.

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If Byron can scrap it for Kyrie, here's hoping he scraps it for D'Angelo.Also that 2011 Cavs team is similar to the Lakers that they're core are all young guys: Kyrie Irving, Daniel Gibson, Alonzo Gee, Tristan Thompson._________________

City_Dawg









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Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 7:17 am Post subject: Quote: Lord Byron has this team firmly entrenched in a position to garner another top pick, which I guess given the circumstances is all we can hope for







Tell me LG, what is the definition of insanity?

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Nash Vegas









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Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 7:22 am Post subject:



1st, Byron goes to Cleveland, implements his Princeton and it fails so he scraps it.



2nd, they draft Kyrie Irving the next year and Byron tries to re-implement the Princeton again, and again it fails so he scraps it and just let Kyrie do his thing.



You would think that if an offense gets scrapped once why in the world would you want to run it again? Then try to do it again here in LA?

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Marcellus Wiley Hold on a sec,1st, Byron goes to Cleveland, implements his Princeton and it fails so he scraps it.2nd, they draft Kyrie Irving the next year and Byron tries to re-implement the Princeton again, and again it fails so he scraps it and just let Kyrie do his thing.You would think that if an offense gets scrapped once why in the world would you want to run it again? Then try to do it again here in LA?_________________

Mike@LG









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Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 7:23 am Post subject:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0eFXAXbJeY&list=PL427E196AFC293754&index=1

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http://bball-index.com/team/lal/ The team isn't even running it properly because the ball keeps sticking._________________Resident Car Nut.LeBron/Bradley/Caruso/Cook/RondoGreen/KCPKuzma/DanielsDavis/DudleyMcGee/D39

Iron Mamba









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Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 7:30 am Post subject: City_Dawg wrote: Quote: Lord Byron has this team firmly entrenched in a position to garner another top pick, which I guess given the circumstances is all we can hope for







Tell me LG, what is the definition of insanity? Tell me LG, what is the definition of



in·san·i·ty

inˈsanədē/



"The act of doing the same thing over an over again, and expecting different results."



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bandiger









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Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 7:38 am Post subject: Nash Vegas wrote: Hold on a sec,



1st, Byron goes to Cleveland, implements his Princeton and it fails so he scraps it.



2nd, they draft Kyrie Irving the next year and Byron tries to re-implement the Princeton again, and again it fails so he scraps it and just let Kyrie do his thing.



You would think that if an offense gets scrapped once why in the world would you want to run it again? Then try to do it again here in LA?



Cause he went to the finals two times with this scheme. He sucks, lotto coach to the core.

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Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 7:44 am Post subject: bandiger wrote: Nash Vegas wrote: Hold on a sec,



1st, Byron goes to Cleveland, implements his Princeton and it fails so he scraps it.



2nd, they draft Kyrie Irving the next year and Byron tries to re-implement the Princeton again, and again it fails so he scraps it and just let Kyrie do his thing.



You would think that if an offense gets scrapped once why in the world would you want to run it again? Then try to do it again here in LA?



Cause he went to the finals two times with this scheme. He sucks, lotto coach to the core.

Didn't Kidd and CP3 do good in that system? A rookie Kyrie didn't have the bball IQ for it.

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kaoss128









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Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 7:47 am Post subject: Can we just fire Byron already?

Don Draper









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Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 7:52 am Post subject:



Even if the Princeton isn't truly at fault, it's bad juju at this point. Like Gary Vitti and Half Ass Hill. Gotta get rid of it to move forward. The more recent case of deja vu is MB running princeton with Steve NashEven if the Princeton isn't truly at fault, it's bad juju at this point. Like Gary Vitti and Half Ass Hill. Gotta get rid of it to move forward.

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Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 7:56 am Post subject: Hmm, an offense with no reliable way to penetrate a modern defense, takes a long time to set up, takes the ball out of your PGs hands, and requires a rare combination of personnel to pull off, may not be the best fit for every roster that you happen to coach? Who would have thunk it?

venturalakersfan









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Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 7:58 am Post subject: Nash Vegas wrote: Hold on a sec,



1st, Byron goes to Cleveland, implements his Princeton and it fails so he scraps it.



2nd, they draft Kyrie Irving the next year and Byron tries to re-implement the Princeton again, and again it fails so he scraps it and just let Kyrie do his thing.



You would think that if an offense gets scrapped once why in the world would you want to run it again? Then try to do it again here in LA?



Makes you wonder, doesn't it?

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yinoma2001









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Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 8:00 am Post subject: I cannot believe he is pushing that stupid system. We have guys who should be running P&Rs and pushing the pace.

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bandiger









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Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 8:01 am Post subject: Kobe Jocker wrote: bandiger wrote: Nash Vegas wrote: Hold on a sec,



1st, Byron goes to Cleveland, implements his Princeton and it fails so he scraps it.



2nd, they draft Kyrie Irving the next year and Byron tries to re-implement the Princeton again, and again it fails so he scraps it and just let Kyrie do his thing.



You would think that if an offense gets scrapped once why in the world would you want to run it again? Then try to do it again here in LA?



Cause he went to the finals two times with this scheme. He sucks, lotto coach to the core.

Didn't Kidd and CP3 do good in that system? A rookie Kyrie didn't have the bball IQ for it.



http://www.silverscreenandroll.com/2010/6/27/1540100/byron-scott-would-not-be-a-decent



That article sums up my reason why BS should just be here for one year or less That article sums up my reason why BS should just be here for one year or less

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Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 8:03 am Post subject: fiendishoc wrote: Hmm, an offense with no reliable way to penetrate a modern defense, takes a long time to set up, takes the ball out of your PGs hands, and requires a rare combination of personnel to pull off, may not be the best fit for every roster that you happen to coach? Who would have thunk it?

Again, why did Kidd and CP3 have success with it then? I'm not sure why people think Scott's offense is anti-PG at all.

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Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 8:04 am Post subject: venturalakersfan wrote: Nash Vegas wrote: Hold on a sec,



1st, Byron goes to Cleveland, implements his Princeton and it fails so he scraps it.



2nd, they draft Kyrie Irving the next year and Byron tries to re-implement the Princeton again, and again it fails so he scraps it and just let Kyrie do his thing.



You would think that if an offense gets scrapped once why in the world would you want to run it again? Then try to do it again here in LA?



Makes you wonder, doesn't it?



Maybe for a second. Byron seems like the kind of guy who will do what he knows over and over even if it's half as effective as something new. Like that guy who chooses to use an old Nokia brick cell phone over an iPhone 6.

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Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 8:04 am Post subject: Kobe Jocker wrote: fiendishoc wrote: Hmm, an offense with no reliable way to penetrate a modern defense, takes a long time to set up, takes the ball out of your PGs hands, and requires a rare combination of personnel to pull off, may not be the best fit for every roster that you happen to coach? Who would have thunk it?

Again, why did Kidd and CP3 have success with it then? I'm not sure why people think Scott's offense is anti-PG at all.



Because they had less ball-stoppers, more shooters. KVH and David West took jumpshots, not create off the dribble.

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http://bball-index.com/team/lal/ Because they had less ball-stoppers, more shooters. KVH and David West took jumpshots, not create off the dribble._________________Resident Car Nut.LeBron/Bradley/Caruso/Cook/RondoGreen/KCPKuzma/DanielsDavis/DudleyMcGee/D39

fiendishoc









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Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 8:06 am Post subject: Kobe Jocker wrote: fiendishoc wrote: Hmm, an offense with no reliable way to penetrate a modern defense, takes a long time to set up, takes the ball out of your PGs hands, and requires a rare combination of personnel to pull off, may not be the best fit for every roster that you happen to coach? Who would have thunk it?

Again, why did Kidd and CP3 have success with it then? I'm not sure why people think Scott's offense is anti-PG at all.



The Nets offense in those years wasn't very good either (17th and 18th in the league in offensive rating with all that talent in a weak conference). And it got even worse when other teams realized you could sag a defender off a non-shooting big man and stop penetration altogether.



CP3 would audible 50 high pick and rolls in row, so you could barely call that the same offense.

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Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 8:10 am Post subject: Mike@LG wrote: Kobe Jocker wrote: fiendishoc wrote: Hmm, an offense with no reliable way to penetrate a modern defense, takes a long time to set up, takes the ball out of your PGs hands, and requires a rare combination of personnel to pull off, may not be the best fit for every roster that you happen to coach? Who would have thunk it?

Again, why did Kidd and CP3 have success with it then? I'm not sure why people think Scott's offense is anti-PG at all.



Because they had less ball-stoppers, more shooters. KVH and David West took jumpshots, not create off the dribble.

I would agree with this. I think the offense will look better once our regular roster is in place though. Randle is my biggest concern because he's been a blackhole since coming back. JC can play off-ball, and Kobe likes playing off-ball(well he did with Nash). DLo has to get more assertive though, like Kidd & CP3 did when running this offense.

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Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 8:11 am Post subject: Speaking of deja vu.....



Quote: As expected, Lakers Media Day in El Segundo was a morning filled with wall-to-wall excitement. Excitement at the additions of Dwight Howard, Steve Nash and Antawn Jamison. Excitement at the team's legitimate depth. Excitement at the prospects of being among a handful of teams considered serious contenders for the 2013 championship.



But there was also excitement about the implementation of elements from the Princeton offense, a blueprint largely designed by new assistant coach Eddie Jordan. At the risk of stating the painfully obvious, the Lakers' offense left something to be desired last season. Obviously, extenuating circumstances -- the lockout, practices rarer than the sighting of a bald eagle, a lack of perimeter players beyond Kobe Bryant and, for a bit, Ramon Sessions -- accounted for some issues. But the Lakers weren't the only team negotiating those hurdles, so a trip to the drawing board was clearly in order.



The Princeton should simultaneously add elements of structure and freedom, and as Mike Brown explained, it's a system he's always envisioned using under the right circumstances:



"I've always been fascinated with that offense ever since the days I was in Cleveland and it seemed like every year I was there we faced the Washington Wizards and Eddie Jordan in the first round. If you take away everybody's different abilities that they have in the NBA and how good or bad they are in those different aspects of the game offensively, and you turned everybody into robots or equated to being the same player, then I always felt that offense was the hardest to defend. The spacing is tremendous. The ball movement is tremendous. The ability to play a stress-free game was off the charts. So those things have always attracted me to it. I just never really had an understanding or the opportunity to implement it. Not only that, I never felt that Cleveland and I had the teams for it. You know, when you have a guy like LeBron (James), he's a pick and roll player. The same thing that Miami does for him down there, we did for him up in Cleveland. You try to play to your player's strengths.

"Here, after being with this team for a year, this is a very intelligent team, and they play very well when it comes to using a motion offense and using their intelligence."



LINK



Last edited by ocho on Tue Jul 14, 2015 8:12 am; edited 1 time in total

yinoma2001









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Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 8:11 am Post subject: We need Kobe to intervene and tell Byron to scrap the Princeton. What a stifling offense.

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fiendishoc









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Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 8:20 am Post subject: yinoma2001 wrote: We need Kobe to intervene and tell Byron to scrap the Princeton. What a stifling offense.



That would be ironic, because the reason the Lakers ever ran the Princeton in the first place was because Kobe helped bring it to Mike Brown.

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Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2015 8:21 am Post subject: Mike@LG wrote: The team isn't even running it properly because the ball keeps sticking.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0eFXAXbJeY&list=PL427E196AFC293754&index=1



With the exception of Russell, passing the ball has been in short supply in the SL. And since guys are fighting for a contract, that is no surprise. But to draw any conclusions from watching it is worthless, wait until the preseason and then make some decisions on what is going on.

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