TT1 Profile Blog Joined December 2008 Canada 9495 Posts Last Edited: 2011-10-28 22:25:22 #1



I felt like I had to give my thoughts on the new expansion because I'm worried about where our game is heading. For example, units like the newly introduced Nal_rA?



Nal_rA: "wat does cute lil thing do?"

Huge Nal_rA fanboy (aka me): "uhhhhhhh well kangmin hyung there was a certain build in sc2 that had a 90% winrate in tvp so blizzard decided to make a unit that allowed p users to copy a tank in order to defend it"

Nal_rA: "LOL"



The beauty of sc1 was that the game revolved mostly around melee/ranged attacking units while a few spellcasters (granted they were extremely strong units) acted as supporting units. Players would focus more on micro battles with their attacking units rather than on their spellcasters. Obviously, spell usage still played a huge role but the emphasis was on unit vs unit engagements. I know that it's impossible to have the same type of unit on unit engagements as we did in sc1 simply because the unit ai is so good, but I feel like blizzard is trying to overcompensate for the lack of micro within the game by adding spellcasters.



I feel like they're going overboard with it. Starcraftt is not WoW, and our game should not revolve around a shitton of spellcasting units. I know that they're trying to promote more micro/skillsets to the game, but at the same time they're going against what they're aiming for by constantly removing key game mechanics that allow good players stand out. For example:



- allowing banelings to move burrowed removes ovie/bane drop vs gate unit/collo balls micro battles in PvZ. Having burrowed banes in the late game just makes ff's useless so zergs wont need to upgrade drop anymore.



- arc shield removes any sort of threat of muta harass or drop play (pvz and tvp). Being able to defend drops/muta harass with your units was a skill which tested your multitasking abilities, but now with arc shield Blizzard is just making the game much easier to play for protoss users.



I wont go too in depth, but I can name various changes Blizzard has made just for the sake of making the game easier to play. Even the in-game timer hurts, because having good game sense/timing was an important skillset in sc1. They need to stop adding useless spellcasters to the game and focus more on adding game mechanics that promote micro engagements, game sense, multitasking etc.(or at the very least stop removing them lol)



Also, I just wanted to briefly talk about the new protoss units in HOTS. It feels like each unit that we're getting is extremely role oriented as opposed to the new units from other races. For example, the viper/swarm host are good all-around units which are going to work well vs almost any unit compo. The same can be said for the terran units to an extent; the t/z army mixes are going to be vastly different from the ones that we've been seeing in WoL, but are the protoss army compositions going to be any different? The tempest is an extremely role-oriented unit (that is extremely expensive and supply heavy as well) which will only be made if a zerg goes for a heavy muta composition or lategame broodlords. The oracle is a harasser and the replicant is a horribly designed unit that I don't want to comment upon further. I promise you that a huge majority protoss users are still gonna stick to their gate unit/colo army comps. =/ Our unit variety seriously sucks.



edit: made readable by --> intrigue <-- fu

SORRY ABOUT THE WALL OF TEXT;;I felt like I had to give my thoughts on the new expansion because I'm worried about where our game is heading. For example, units like the newly introduced replicant go against what StarCraft is about. I'm pretty sure that one of the main reasons this unit was added was so that protoss could hard counter 1basing terrans (please note that I am not talking about how OP or UP the replicant may be, but rather about how its role/function has no place in SC). Adding a unit to the game just so that it can hard-counter a specific style is simply just horrible game design. Could you ever imagine someone trying to explain what the role of the replicant is to a player likeNal_rA: "wat does cute lil thing do?"Huge Nal_rA fanboy (aka me): "uhhhhhhh well kangmin hyung there was a certain build in sc2 that had a 90% winrate in tvp so blizzard decided to make a unit that allowed p users to copy a tank in order to defend it"Nal_rA: "LOL"The beauty of sc1 was that the game revolved mostly around melee/ranged attacking units while a few spellcasters (granted they were extremely strong units) acted as supporting units. Players would focus more on micro battles with their attacking units rather than on their spellcasters. Obviously, spell usage still played a huge role but the emphasis was on unit vs unit engagements. I know that it's impossible to have the same type of unit on unit engagements as we did in sc1 simply because the unit ai is so good, but I feel like blizzard is trying to overcompensate for the lack of micro within the game by adding spellcasters.I feel like they're going overboard with it. Starcraftt is not WoW, and our game should not revolve around a shitton of spellcasting units. I know that they're trying to promote more micro/skillsets to the game, but at the same time they're going against what they're aiming for by constantly removing key game mechanics that allow good players stand out. For example:- allowing banelings to move burrowed removes ovie/bane drop vs gate unit/collo balls micro battles in PvZ. Having burrowed banes in the late game just makes ff's useless so zergs wont need to upgrade drop anymore.- arc shield removes any sort of threat of muta harass or drop play (pvz and tvp). Being able to defend drops/muta harass with your units was a skill which tested your multitasking abilities, but now with arc shield Blizzard is just making the game much easier to play for protoss users.I wont go too in depth, but I can name various changes Blizzard has made just for the sake of making the game easier to play. Even the in-game timer hurts, because having good game sense/timing was an important skillset in sc1. They need to stop adding useless spellcasters to the game and focus more on adding game mechanics that promote micro engagements, game sense, multitasking etc.(or at the very least stop removing them lol)Also, I just wanted to briefly talk about the new protoss units in HOTS. It feels like each unit that we're getting is extremely role oriented as opposed to the new units from other races. For example, the viper/swarm host are good all-around units which are going to work well vs almost any unit compo. The same can be said for the terran units to an extent; the t/z army mixes are going to be vastly different from the ones that we've been seeing in WoL, but are the protoss army compositions going to be any different? The tempest is an extremely role-oriented unit (that is extremely expensive and supply heavy as well) which will only be made if a zerg goes for a heavy muta composition or lategame broodlords. The oracle is a harasser and the replicant is a horribly designed unit that I don't want to comment upon further. I promise you that a huge majority protoss users are still gonna stick to their gate unit/colo army comps. =/ Our unit variety seriously sucks.edit: made readable by --> intrigue ab = tl(i) + tl(pc), the grand answer to every tl.net debate

Techno Profile Joined June 2010 1900 Posts Last Edited: 2011-10-26 02:38:33 #2 Your putting words into Blizzards mouth then disagreeing with them.

EDIT: You have somewhat of a point about the Protoss units, but the game isn't out yet: maybe tempest/siege tank will be the new hotshit. And you don't consider what Protoss would do vs Terran Mech, cause I bet it aint Colossus/Gateway! Hell, its awesome to LOSE to nukes!

Puph Profile Joined June 2011 Canada 625 Posts #3



User was warned for this post Ow, I hit my head on the wall. Metagame before complain! Intel Dual Core 4400 @ ~2.00GHz / 2046MB RAM / 256 MB ATI Radeon x1300PRO

Utinni Profile Joined November 2010 Canada 1196 Posts #4 Your opinion is noted. Thank you!



“... you don’t have to be Sun freakin Tzu to know that real fighting isn’t about killing or even hurting the other guy, it’s about scaring him enough to call it a day.” - Max Brooks: World War Z

RAW-BERRY Profile Joined August 2010 United States 26 Posts #5 I would say wait until the beta before you start metagaming unreleased content. Things will work themselves out.

thekoven Profile Joined July 2010 United States 127 Posts #6 I'm worried as well, HotS sounds like crap for protoss users. I already can't stand PvZ it's not going to be any more fun in HotS twitch.tv/thekoven

KunA Profile Joined September 2011 United States 45 Posts #7 This I feel should have been a blog and not a post. I know your a pro but don't you think it would've been smarter to post a blog about your feelings than writing a post that comes off a little bit as whining. Half of these units probably aren't even going to be making into the final game as they are just ideas from blizzard and I mean if they have to start over from scratch with it then let them as we know they take long with their games and they come out great they aren't going to ruin this game. They'll test it with people find out its bad and fix it.

-Kyo- Profile Blog Joined August 2010 Japan 1900 Posts Last Edited: 2011-10-26 02:45:11 #8 On October 26 2011 11:35 Techno wrote:

Your putting words into Blizzards mouth then disagreeing with them.

EDIT: You have somewhat of a point about the Protoss units, but the game isn't out yet: maybe tempest/siege tank will be the new hotshit.



I don't see anywhere where he put words in blizzards mouth to specifically make a point about anything.

To me most of the points are pretty straight forward and I'd agree that most of the way SC2 is being balanced is simply to just make it "easier" rather than to actually fix and let the game evolve. If there are fundamental problems with the game most of the time they're obvious or need some time to be mapped out, however, with things like timings and multitasking, you shouldn't negate all of that by simply adding something and saying "LOL WE DEALT WITH THAT FINE, NEXT?" because honestly, that's what it seems like they're doing to me.



Edit for the guy above me: On October 26 2011 11:40 KunA wrote:

This I feel should have been a blog and not a post. I know your a pro but don't you think it would've been smarter to post a blog about your feelings than writing a post that comes off a little bit as whining. Half of these units probably aren't even going to be making into the final game as they are just ideas from blizzard and I mean if they have to start over from scratch with it then let them as we know they take long with their games and they come out great they aren't going to ruin this game. They'll test it with people find out its bad and fix it.

No... No........... I can almost guarantee you all of these units will be there in release and I'll be more than surprised if they get taken out, maybe one or two may not make it, but that's if like they actually realize what they're doing or implementing.



I don't understand how this is could even be a blog.



Also, they wont ruin a game when it comes out? ZvT Steppes of War, SCV HP, Roach Cost, Roach Regen etc etc. These things were making it into the BETA. Don't expect too much change.

No... No........... I can almost guarantee you all of these units will be there in release and I'll be more than surprised if they get taken out,one or two may not make it, but that's if like they actually realize what they're doing or implementing.I don't understand how this is could even be a blog.Also, they wont ruin a game when it comes out? ZvT Steppes of War, SCV HP, Roach Cost, Roach Regen etc etc. These things were making it into the BETA. Don't expect too much change.

I don't see anywhere where he put words in blizzards mouth to specifically make a point about anything.To me most of the points are pretty straight forward and I'd agree that most of the way SC2 is being balanced is simply to just make it "easier" rather than to actually fix and let the game evolve. If there are fundamental problems with the game most of the time they're obvious or need some time to be mapped out, however, with things like timings and multitasking, you shouldn't negate all of that by simply adding something and saying "LOL WE DEALT WITH THAT FINE, NEXT?" because honestly, that's what it seems like they're doing to me.Edit for the guy above me: + Show Spoiler + Anime is cuter than you. Legacy of the Void GM Protoss Gameplay: twitch.tv/kyo7763 youtube.com/user/KyoStarcraft/

Blasterion Profile Blog Joined October 2010 China 10268 Posts #9



User was warned for this post Metagame before complaing please. Don't put words into blizzard's mouth [TLNY]Mahjong Club Thread

m3rciless Profile Joined August 2009 United States 1403 Posts #10 Lol. I'm pretty sure blizzard had more in mind than just countering 1 base terrans with replicant. You have no idea what the unit's role will be, chill out until beta. White-Ra fighting!

Nontrivial Profile Joined April 2011 United States 56 Posts #11 I think you are right that it is a little concerning about that focus on decision making and good army comp opposed to micro. But I think micro is what you make of it. As Browder pointed out when Banlings were first put into the game no one had the idea of microing against them. Yet this was something that was figured out. I think with new units there will be new chances to do this.

TT1 Profile Blog Joined December 2008 Canada 9495 Posts Last Edited: 2011-10-26 02:42:20 #12 On October 26 2011 11:40 m3rciless wrote:

Lol. I'm pretty sure blizzard had more in mind than just countering 1 base terrans with replicant. You have no idea what the unit's role will be, chill out until beta.



ok forget about the units and wat role they play, wat about the fact that they keep removing key game mechanics from the game? ok forget about the units and wat role they play, wat about the fact that they keep removing key game mechanics from the game? ab = tl(i) + tl(pc), the grand answer to every tl.net debate

Silidons Profile Blog Joined September 2010 United States 2785 Posts #13 i don't care if the replicant is OP as shit. it's a fuckign stupid ass design and does not belong in the starcraft universe. i will NOT use it under ANY circumstances. just like i am slowly doing this with the colossus. fucking retarded units that i don't enjoy using whatsoever. "God fights on the side with the best artillery." - Napoleon Bonaparte

Tektos Profile Joined November 2010 Australia 1310 Posts #14 I respect your opinion but I disagree, I like the direction SC2 is heading.

Jayrod Profile Joined August 2010 1815 Posts #15 I agree on your "role-oriented" thoughts on the Protoss units and that makes them a bit disappointing. Honestly, the expansion SHOULD be exciting for players that choose any race. Luckily, I feel recall on the Nexus is enough by itself to possibly change Protoss early aggression.



The 3 new units are completely underwhelming.



Also the pylon no longer powering the high ground is a bit ridiculous. They managed to add new units and limit gameplay at the same time... pretty impressive... but not in a good way.

InvalidID Profile Blog Joined October 2010 United States 1022 Posts #16 I agree that the replicant is poorly designed. I hope it never makes it into release. Even if it is a good unit it just seems silly and counter to the spirit of Protoss and the asymmetrical nature of the game.

dgwow Profile Blog Joined December 2010 Canada 1024 Posts #17 Sounds like your only complaining about protoss units, not the other races.



I agree with you on the replicant, cool idea but it doesnt fit in starcraft. Why don't you give some ideas to Dustin Browder then? Don't let those anti-cheese advocates tell you what to do. Rush to meet life head on!

TT1 Profile Blog Joined December 2008 Canada 9495 Posts #18 On October 26 2011 11:43 Silidons wrote:

i don't care if the replicant is OP as shit. it's a fuckign stupid ass design and does not belong in the starcraft universe. i will NOT use it under ANY circumstances. just like i am slowly doing this with the colossus. fucking retarded units that i don't enjoy using whatsoever.



exactly, im not arguing whether or not its OP or UP.. its function as a unit does not belong in SC exactly, im not arguing whether or not its OP or UP.. its function as a unit does not belong in SC ab = tl(i) + tl(pc), the grand answer to every tl.net debate

Sc2ttyl Profile Joined October 2010 United States 245 Posts #19 I agree totally. I am not even protoss but the fact that protoss is that bad makes me sad. I dont want a game where whoever does their spells first/ gets lucky with some unit wins. This is not starcraft. I want insane micro wars involving units, not spamming some spell. yo

brachester Profile Blog Joined March 2011 Australia 1755 Posts #20 Also the shredder and the warhound looks like supreme commander units rather than sc2 lol I hate all this singing

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