Since Lucasfilm announced in January that the eighth episode of the Star Wars saga would be titled The Last Jedi, fans around the globe have tried to suss out the title’s meaning. But good luck getting Kathleen Kennedy, Lucasfilm’s president, or Rian Johnson, the movie’s writer and director, to reveal it. We tried. Here’s what they told us.

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Attempt #1: Kathleen Kennedy

Vanity Fair: So, do we know what the words The Last Jedi allude to?

Kathleen Kennedy: Why in the world do you think I would tell you that?

I’ll tell you why. Back in 1998, I interviewed George Lucas for V.F. ahead of The Phantom Menace, and I asked, “Who or what is the phantom menace?” And he nonchalantly said, “Oh, it’s Darth Sidious.”

Did he really?

Just like that.

I’m not going to do that.

So, does the word “Jedi” work in the singular or the plural?

That’s actually what’s interesting about the title, and very intentionally ambiguous.

As you’re being right now.

Yes.

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Attempt #2: Rian Johnson

V.F.: Did you think up the title?

Rian Johnson: That was the very first thing, when I had not even written the script. When I was coming up with the story, I had that title. So I’ve had that title in my head now for years. I was so terrified that someone would guess it—it seemed like an obvious title. Every time a fake title would leak, I would hold my breath and click on the link and be like, “Oh no, did they get it?” But luckily, we were able to put it out clean.

So, is “Jedi” plural or singular?

See, that’s the funny thing. I heard that in the foreign translations for the title, they made it plural. In my head, it’s singular. It makes sense with the story, to me, that it’s singular.

Are you not going to tell me who the last Jedi is?

It’s weird, because I never even thought of that as the big question. But I love that people are speculating about it, so I don’t want to crush that under my heel . . . I never thought that everyone was going to be like, “Ooh, is it—.”

“Is it Luke? Is it Rey?”

I never thought that was going to be the question. I guess partially because the answer—and this is going to sound like I’m being coy, but I swear I’m not—is, you do have to see the movie. It’s not as simple as saying, “It’s this person—ha-ha!” It is a little more complicated than that. I guess I can say this, that when—no, I’m not going to say anything.

Come on! The train has left the station.

One would think, let’s say this, that at the end of Episode VII it refers to Luke, because of the notion that this religion has died out and he is the last of them.

One would think?

One would think.