blade55555 Profile Blog Joined March 2009 United States 17373 Posts Last Edited: 2013-05-22 04:50:33 #1 Protoss Overwhelming: A Guide to Lategame ZvP



Hello and welcome to a guide on how to beat late game Protoss! I have seen many, many complaints on how late game ZvP is impossible, so this guide will attempt to show Zerg players how to play the late game correctly and win. I am a Grandmaster Zerg player on the NA server with a 70% win ratio in ZvP. In addition, I am high masters on the Korean server with a ZvP win ratio of 66%. I rarely lose in the late game even when Protoss gets voidray/colossi, voidray/templar/colossi, or any other composition of their choosing.



This guide will be going over how to engage the late game and what composition Zerg players should be going for. At the end of the guide, I will be putting up a few replays from the Korean server that go in late game showcasing how to engage.

This guide is only going to be about late game ZvP. If you are looking for a guide that features all around ZvP, check out my previous guide



The Unit Compositions



First off, we should identify the types of armies a late-game Protoss can make. Each type of army will have a different unit composition response from a Zerg player. Late game Protoss deathball compositions fall into three categories.

Pure ground army (colossi/templar/archon/immortal/chargelot without any air units)

Response: ultralisk/hydralisk/swarm host/brood lord/viper

The Zerg should start out with this base composition, adding in brood lords when resources allow. Infestors are also an option you may want to mix in.



(colossi/templar/archon/immortal/chargelot without any air units) Sky-toss (carrier/tempest/voidray with a templar transition)

Response: hydralisk/swarm host/viper

Once templar are out, add in 3-5 ultralisks. Make sure to have 12-14 swarm hosts, but keep in mind that no more than 14 are needed. Making more will just be wasted supply that you could have used for hydras or ultras.



(carrier/tempest/voidray with a templar transition) Air/ground mix (voidray/templar, voidray/colossi or voidray/colossi/templar)

Response: hydralisk/ultralisk/swarm host/viper

The Zerg player should also be adding in infestors later on once he can afford it, especially when the Protoss adds in templar. An ideal mix is about 12-14 swarm hosts, 3-5 ultra, 3-4 vipers, rest hydralisks.

Why these units?

The purpose of the ultralisk is to tank damage from colossi and templar. This makes it so that hydralisks aren’t as vulnerable to storms or colossi splash damage. The ultralisk also dishes out a lot of damage and will kill colossi/templar quickly, which makes hydralisks and vipers even stronger. With the splash damage mitigated by the ultralisks, it will be very hard for a Protoss army to kill ultra/hydra/viper/swarm host.



is to tank damage from colossi and templar. This makes it so that hydralisks aren’t as vulnerable to storms or colossi splash damage. The ultralisk also dishes out a lot of damage and will kill colossi/templar quickly, which makes hydralisks and vipers even stronger. With the splash damage mitigated by the ultralisks, it will be very hard for a Protoss army to kill ultra/hydra/viper/swarm host. The swarm host fills the same role as the ultra, but also used as a way of when to engage. What I mean by this, is that you can get free vision with the locusts so that zerg can see where the protoss army is and what it composes of. You should be timing your attacks with the locust waves. The swarm hosts let loose locusts so the Zerg can always know where the army is and how it is set up. The locusts also both dish out and tank quite a bit of damage. This makes them very useful in the engagement against templar/colossi as they tank and dish out the damage needed to get rid of the splash. They are also free units, so doing minimal damage with them is fine as you will gain information on how the Protoss is positioned as they die.



The swarm hosts let loose locusts so the Zerg can always know where the army is and how it is set up. The locusts also both dish out and tank quite a bit of damage. This makes them very useful in the engagement against templar/colossi as they tank and dish out the damage needed to get rid of the splash. They are also free units, so doing minimal damage with them is fine as you will gain information on how the Protoss is positioned as they die. The role of the hydralisk is to clean up air forces. If they survive a fight, they can also help clean out stalker/archon/immortals.



is to clean up air forces. If they survive a fight, they can also help clean out stalker/archon/immortals. Vipers will be used to abduct colossi and throw down blinding clouds. This unit makes it much easier to deal with colossi. If the Zerg is facing voidray/colossi without templar, this unit is a must.



will be used to abduct colossi and throw down blinding clouds. This unit makes it much easier to deal with colossi. If the Zerg is facing voidray/colossi without templar, this unit is a must. The infestor's role is really simple: to lock down the army. With HotS, infested terrans are useless in the late game and fungals will be the only purpose of the infestor.



How To Engage



The late game scenario really comes down to engagements. How you engage the late game army matters just as much as the unit composition you choose. A Zerg who is engaging the late game Protoss army voidray/templar, voidray/colossi, voidray/colossi/templar should not be engaging in a small choke. Engaging in a small choke will favor the Protoss and will result in your army not doing anywhere near as much damage as it should to the Protoss.



The more open ground there is, the better, so try to engage in as much open space as possible. Make sure that ultralisks and the locusts from swarm hosts engage the Protoss army first. Do not lead the charge with your hydralisks or vipers. If you make this mistake, colossi/templar will be able to kill the hydralisks while your ultralisks and locusts are stuck behind. The result is that you will lose the fight very badly.



The Zerg should always be leading with ultralisks and locusts with hydras and vipers following behind. This makes it a lot harder for a Protoss player to kill the hydralisks because ultralisks and locusts are in the way. If the Protoss has his templar in the front, he’s going to lose them while the Zerg will have his hydralisks in the back, safe and sound as the splash from Protoss dies. Blinding cloud and abduct are great spells to use here to yank the colossi and to reduce immortals/stalkers/colossi to melee range with blinding cloud.



Depending on how you engage the army, the Zerg player has a good chance to win the ground fight. However, depending on how many storms/colossi were hitting hydralisks, will probably lose every hydralisk and the Protoss will have void rays left over. This is normal and not a big concern. As long as the Zerg player retreats surviving ultralisks and swarm hosts, a remax of hydralisks will clean the rest of the void rays. The Zerg should then be able to simply attack and win, because that Protoss deathball will take too much time to remake. The key point to take from this is that less splash that hits the hydralisks, the better the fight will go for the Zerg player.



Zerg players can put down static defense to help when engaging the main Protoss army, but this isn’t a requirement. For example, I don’t put any static defense in locations to engage the Protoss army. However, putting some spore crawlers at a common attack location isn’t a bad idea because if the Zerg has to pull back, he can pull back into a secure location while waiting for reinforcements. Again, this is not necessary to engage the Protoss army and should be used as more of a falling back point rather than an engagement necessity.



If the Protoss player is going pure ground with no air units, engaging in a small choke isn’t going to favor the Protoss as long as the Zerg has brood lords, which the Zerg should have once he notices there is no air. You only require around six broodlords, which should be supported by swarm host/ultra/viper/hydra support. However, more brood lords are also acceptable. This combination of units makes it really hard for the Protoss to ever engage the Zerg army, similar to how it was in WoL. This is the only situation where engaging in a small choke will be better for the Zerg than the Protoss.



Replays

Replay Pack



Note: These replays are all from the Korean server and all of them showcase some late game engagements against Protoss. In a lot of these games, I started off economically behind, but was still able to kill the Protoss deathball in the late game. In total, there are ten replays and I will add more as I get them.



Youtube Video

Hello and welcome to a guide on how to beat late game Protoss! I have seen many, many complaints on how late game ZvP is impossible, so this guide will attempt to show Zerg players how to play the late game correctly and win. I am a Grandmaster Zerg player on the NA server with a 70% win ratio in ZvP. In addition, I am high masters on the Korean server with a ZvP win ratio of 66%. I rarely lose in the late game even when Protoss gets voidray/colossi, voidray/templar/colossi, or any other composition of their choosing.This guide will be going over how to engage the late game and what composition Zerg players should be going for. At the end of the guide, I will be putting up a few replays from the Korean server that go in late game showcasing how to engage.This guide is only going to be about late game ZvP. If you are looking for a guide that features all around ZvP, check out my previous guide here First off, we should identify the types of armies a late-game Protoss can make. Each type of army will have a different unit composition response from a Zerg player. Late game Protoss deathball compositions fall into three categories.The late game scenario really comes down to engagements. How you engage the late game army matters just as much as the unit composition you choose. A Zerg who is engaging the late game Protoss army voidray/templar, voidray/colossi, voidray/colossi/templar should not be engaging in a small choke. Engaging in a small choke will favor the Protoss and will result in your army not doing anywhere near as much damage as it should to the Protoss.The more open ground there is, the better, so try to engage in as much open space as possible. Make sure that ultralisks and the locusts from swarm hosts engage the Protoss army first. Do not lead the charge with your hydralisks or vipers. If you make this mistake, colossi/templar will be able to kill the hydralisks while your ultralisks and locusts are stuck behind. The result is that you will lose the fight very badly.The Zerg should always be leading with ultralisks and locusts with hydras and vipers following behind. This makes it a lot harder for a Protoss player to kill the hydralisks because ultralisks and locusts are in the way. If the Protoss has his templar in the front, he’s going to lose them while the Zerg will have his hydralisks in the back, safe and sound as the splash from Protoss dies. Blinding cloud and abduct are great spells to use here to yank the colossi and to reduce immortals/stalkers/colossi to melee range with blinding cloud.Depending on how you engage the army, the Zerg player has a good chance to win the ground fight. However, depending on how many storms/colossi were hitting hydralisks, will probably lose every hydralisk and the Protoss will have void rays left over. This is normal and not a big concern. As long as the Zerg player retreats surviving ultralisks and swarm hosts, a remax of hydralisks will clean the rest of the void rays. The Zerg should then be able to simply attack and win, because that Protoss deathball will take too much time to remake. The key point to take from this is that less splash that hits the hydralisks, the better the fight will go for the Zerg player.Zerg players can put down static defense to help when engaging the main Protoss army, but this isn’t a requirement. For example, I don’t put any static defense in locations to engage the Protoss army. However, putting some spore crawlers at a common attack location isn’t a bad idea because if the Zerg has to pull back, he can pull back into a secure location while waiting for reinforcements. Again, this is not necessary to engage the Protoss army and should be used as more of a falling back point rather than an engagement necessity.If the Protoss player is going pure ground with no air units, engaging in a small choke isn’t going to favor the Protoss as long as the Zerg has brood lords, which the Zerg should have once he notices there is no air. You only require around six broodlords, which should be supported by swarm host/ultra/viper/hydra support. However, more brood lords are also acceptable. This combination of units makes it really hard for the Protoss to ever engage the Zerg army, similar to how it was in WoL. This is the only situation where engaging in a small choke will be better for the Zerg than the Protoss.Note: These replays are all from the Korean server and all of them showcase some late game engagements against Protoss. In a lot of these games, I started off economically behind, but was still able to kill the Protoss deathball in the late game. In total, there are ten replays and I will add more as I get them.



A huge shoutout to Monk for editing this and fixing some of my awful grammar! A huge shoutout to Monk for editing this and fixing some of my awful grammar! When I think of something else, something will go here

HoMM Profile Joined July 2010 Estonia 590 Posts #2 Great guide, thanks! SC2 Masters Protoss - LoL Diamond adc/support www.twitter.com/hommlol www.youtube.com/homm87

CuttyVu Profile Joined January 2013 Czech Republic 28 Posts #3 A great guide, good job

Markwerf Profile Joined March 2010 Netherlands 3723 Posts #4 So basically spire is only for surprise muta until the very lategame in your opinion?



Do you even think going broodlords against pure ground is any good? It's quite easy for protoss to mix in a few tempests imo, so unless you suprise protoss somehow. I doubt it's ever really good to go for broods, swarmhosts just seem to do what they do better in ZvP.



I do find it strange though you don't even suggest corruptor against skytoss. In general I agree corruptors should be avoided mostly as viper / ultra counter colossi much better but against carrier play you simply need corruptors.



Overall though i'm curious to know a bit more in detail what the difference for you between swarm hosts and ultra's is. They both serve a fairly similar role of tanking damage and have fairly similar mineral/gas ratio's. Against the protoss ground army with maybe a minimal air splash, ie standard lasertoss on 3 base, what order of getting this mix do you suggest?

Swarm hosts -> viper -> ultra? or rushing viper/ultra first then swarmhosts later? Personally I think the latter is better and swarmhosts are more the really late thing but I wonder what you suggest. I just feel pure ultra is often better than ultra/swarmhost as well for buffering, swarmhosts tends to make zerg really slow and protoss just killing 2 bases and recalling is more problematic with them i think.

crfty Profile Blog Joined August 2010 United States 174 Posts #5 Just finished reading/watching the YT video. Great stuff!



I am currently stuck on the 3 base ~11:00 max roach style, which isn't a guaranteed win, so the transition out of that is tough for me. For a style such as this, would you recommend not fully committing to so many roaches/lings with a 3 base opening like that, maybe more gas/tech instead of units?



I guess much of it varies depending on what your opponent is doing, but input is appreciated. :D

Blezza Profile Joined June 2011 United Kingdom 191 Posts #6 Nice guide, Thanks Winners race > Other race I don't play > My race. How Twitch chat work in tournaments...

Ahelvin Profile Blog Joined September 2010 France 1863 Posts #7 On April 22 2013 04:01 crfty wrote:

Just finished reading/watching the YT video. Great stuff!



I am currently stuck on the 3 base ~11:00 max roach style, which isn't a guaranteed win, so the transition out of that is tough for me. For a style such as this, would you recommend not fully committing to so many roaches/lings with a 3 base opening like that, maybe more gas/tech instead of units?



I guess much of it varies depending on what your opponent is doing, but input is appreciated. :D

I recommend reading the Swarmhost opening Blade described in his guide. It gives a lot a flexibility and control over the course of the game, is an autowin versus an immortal/sentry allin, and allows you to dictate the pace of the game in my opinion ! I recommend reading the Swarmhost opening Blade described in his guide. It gives a lot a flexibility and control over the course of the game, is an autowin versus an immortal/sentry allin, and allows you to dictate the pace of the game in my opinion ! Join the Liquipedia Zerg Project ! PM me for more information :).

GoodSirTets Profile Joined June 2012 Canada 200 Posts #8 Add a link to the day9 daily from last week where he talked about the swarmhost hydra caster lategame High Diamond/ Low Masters :^)

fastr Profile Joined February 2011 France 885 Posts #9 Great guide as always. I really appreciate your work. Please keep'em coming!

Tuczniak Profile Joined September 2010 1560 Posts #10 Good guide.

Teoita Profile Blog Joined January 2011 Italy 11894 Posts #11 wtf blade i thought we were going to use the pimp html formatting stuff? Moderator Protoss all-ins are like a wok. You can throw whatever you want in there and it will turn out alright.

sambo400 Profile Joined March 2011 United States 377 Posts Last Edited: 2013-04-21 22:44:24 #12 As a protoss who particularly hates zerg, I'm not really sure what you guys are supposed to even do. Late game feels heavily imbalanced in favor of toss. I think the most effective strategy I have seen so far (against a late game ground army) is to take a battle and then re max on ultras (as many as you can). Ultras are really hard to kill and they should chase away/ kill every ground unit if protoss is in bad position.



Swarm hosts haven't been so effective against me, probably because I dislike air and stay on colossus longer than I should.



(Masters Protoss btw)



Also I think adding a few tempests with ground armies sucks and I'd rather have voids and storm with blink stalkers and a few colossus.

Moosegills Profile Joined March 2011 United States 558 Posts #13

A huge shoutout to Monk for editing this and fixing some of my awful grammer!

Can't tell if this is troll or serious. Nice guide. Can't tell if this is troll or serious. Nice guide. #1 HuK fan, zerg player playing for http://www.complexitygaming.com - @coL_Moosegills

Frankie Teardrop Profile Joined March 2013 United States 74 Posts #14 Yet another fantastic contribution from blade. As a huge swarmhost fan, I love watching you utilize them, and am grateful that you have provided such helpful resources for those of us who want to learn to use them more effectively.



Do you have any general rule of thumb regarding how far away to burrow your hosts from the opponent's army, or do you just go by what feels right? My biggest issue is that I tend to always burrow them too close, since I naturally want to get as much out of the locusts' timer as possible. However this often results in my opponent being able to get right on top of my hosts and slaughtering them all, resulting in a gg most of the time.

DenTenker Profile Blog Joined March 2013 United States 606 Posts #15 Great guide blade!



I do have one question: I am a diamond zerg, and I use mass mutalisk to beat protoss. This seems to be pretty effective. Yet, nowhere in this guide does it recommend mutas. I'm wondering: Do mutalisks not work in higher leagues simply due to better macro/control or are mutas another viable option? Or do mutas not fall into the "lategame ZvP" category? Thanks! If your all in didn't work, you didn't pull the workers.

Tuczniak Profile Joined September 2010 1560 Posts #16 On April 22 2013 07:43 Moosegills wrote:

Show nested quote +



A huge shoutout to Monk for editing this and fixing some of my awful grammer!

Can't tell if this is troll or serious. Nice guide. Can't tell if this is troll or serious. Nice guide.



Xaeldaren Profile Joined June 2010 Ireland 587 Posts #17 On April 22 2013 08:41 DenTenker wrote:

Great guide blade!



I do have one question: I am a diamond zerg, and I use mass mutalisk to beat protoss. This seems to be pretty effective. Yet, nowhere in this guide does it recommend mutas. I'm wondering: Do mutalisks not work in higher leagues simply due to better macro/control or are mutas another viable option? Or do mutas not fall into the "lategame ZvP" category? Thanks!



Masters Protoss here, and I actually don't mind when Zergs go for Mutalisk at all, but then again I open with 4 Phoenixes in almost every PvZ I play. Honestly, Phoenixes are a pretty brutal counter to Mutas no matter how much you commit to them. In high numbers with +2 range Phoenixes are just kind of silly. In low numbers of Phoenix vs Muta you can demolish them even without range, depending on your micro. Masters Protoss here, and I actually don't mind when Zergs go for Mutalisk at all, but then again I open with 4 Phoenixes in almost every PvZ I play. Honestly, Phoenixes are a pretty brutal counter to Mutas no matter how much you commit to them. In high numbers with +2 range Phoenixes are just kind of silly. In low numbers of Phoenix vs Muta you can demolish them even without range, depending on your micro.

salehonasi Profile Joined March 2011 United States 87 Posts #18 On April 22 2013 08:41 DenTenker wrote:

Great guide blade!



I do have one question: I am a diamond zerg, and I use mass mutalisk to beat protoss. This seems to be pretty effective. Yet, nowhere in this guide does it recommend mutas. I'm wondering: Do mutalisks not work in higher leagues simply due to better macro/control or are mutas another viable option? Or do mutas not fall into the "lategame ZvP" category? Thanks!



I'm also at the diamond level (random), and I consistently smash any kind of muta play in PvZ because stargate openers let you get out a few phoenix, and that extra +1 range makes micro so much easier, and once you get the range upgrade, the mutas just get torn apart. I'm also at the diamond level (random), and I consistently smash any kind of muta play in PvZ because stargate openers let you get out a few phoenix, and that extra +1 range makes micro so much easier, and once you get the range upgrade, the mutas just get torn apart. "The most effective counter in Starcraft 2 is to go ****ing kill him." -Day[9]

DenTenker Profile Blog Joined March 2013 United States 606 Posts Last Edited: 2013-04-22 01:44:03 #19 Thanks again! ^^ Thanks guys. I was wondering why mutas weren't mentioned. Looks early phoenix play crushes them. The only losses I've had with mutas is to early phoenix builds. I guess in higher leagues that becomes standard. Looks like I have to change my ZvP.Thanks again! If your all in didn't work, you didn't pull the workers.

blade55555 Profile Blog Joined March 2009 United States 17373 Posts #20 On April 22 2013 03:52 Markwerf wrote:

So basically spire is only for surprise muta until the very lategame in your opinion?



Do you even think going broodlords against pure ground is any good? It's quite easy for protoss to mix in a few tempests imo, so unless you suprise protoss somehow. I doubt it's ever really good to go for broods, swarmhosts just seem to do what they do better in ZvP.



I do find it strange though you don't even suggest corruptor against skytoss. In general I agree corruptors should be avoided mostly as viper / ultra counter colossi much better but against carrier play you simply need corruptors.



Overall though i'm curious to know a bit more in detail what the difference for you between swarm hosts and ultra's is. They both serve a fairly similar role of tanking damage and have fairly similar mineral/gas ratio's. Against the protoss ground army with maybe a minimal air splash, ie standard lasertoss on 3 base, what order of getting this mix do you suggest?

Swarm hosts -> viper -> ultra? or rushing viper/ultra first then swarmhosts later? Personally I think the latter is better and swarmhosts are more the really late thing but I wonder what you suggest. I just feel pure ultra is often better than ultra/swarmhost as well for buffering, swarmhosts tends to make zerg really slow and protoss just killing 2 bases and recalling is more problematic with them i think.



Mutas are viable it's just that their not a late game unit composition and I am not a fan of mass mass muta as you won't be able to fight the toss army head on and have to base trade which I find boring and not very fun.



Also the swarmhost is available from the second lair is finished and you shouldn't lose them where as ultra isn't until late game. Also swarmhosts throw out free units so you as the zerg can see where the army is and lose free units and deal free damage with free units. Swarmhosts are so sick mid game they are so underused ^^.

Also vs anything I do swarmhost -> viper -> ultra. It's way stronger then trying to rush ultra and it crushes any fast 3 base push as well.



Mutas are viable it's just that their not a late game unit composition and I am not a fan of mass mass muta as you won't be able to fight the toss army head on and have to base trade which I find boring and not very fun.Also the swarmhost is available from the second lair is finished and you shouldn't lose them where as ultra isn't until late game. Also swarmhosts throw out free units so you as the zerg can see where the army is and lose free units and deal free damage with free units. Swarmhosts are so sick mid game they are so underused ^^.Also vs anything I do swarmhost -> viper -> ultra. It's way stronger then trying to rush ultra and it crushes any fast 3 base push as well. On April 22 2013 04:01 crfty wrote:

Just finished reading/watching the YT video. Great stuff!



I am currently stuck on the 3 base ~11:00 max roach style, which isn't a guaranteed win, so the transition out of that is tough for me. For a style such as this, would you recommend not fully committing to so many roaches/lings with a 3 base opening like that, maybe more gas/tech instead of units?



I guess much of it varies depending on what your opponent is doing, but input is appreciated. :D



No do not commit to roach/ling or you will still die to colossi timings if you don't do enough damage with it.



No do not commit to roach/ling or you will still die to colossi timings if you don't do enough damage with it. On April 22 2013 07:42 sambo400 wrote:

As a protoss who particularly hates zerg, I'm not really sure what you guys are supposed to even do. Late game feels heavily imbalanced in favor of toss. I think the most effective strategy I have seen so far (against a late game ground army) is to take a battle and then re max on ultras (as many as you can). Ultras are really hard to kill and they should chase away/ kill every ground unit if protoss is in bad position.



Swarm hosts haven't been so effective against me, probably because I dislike air and stay on colossus longer than I should.



(Masters Protoss btw)



Also I think adding a few tempests with ground armies sucks and I'd rather have voids and storm with blink stalkers and a few colossus.



I am pretty sure you didn't read this guide, watch the youtube video or at least check out the replays as I literally go over the late game and how to beat every composition late game :p.



On April 22 2013 07:43 Moosegills wrote:

Show nested quote +



A huge shoutout to Monk for editing this and fixing some of my awful grammer!

Can't tell if this is troll or serious. Nice guide. Can't tell if this is troll or serious. Nice guide.



You will never know, thanks!



I am pretty sure you didn't read this guide, watch the youtube video or at least check out the replays as I literally go over the late game and how to beat every composition late game :p.You will never know, thanks! On April 22 2013 08:02 Frankie Teardrop wrote:

Yet another fantastic contribution from blade. As a huge swarmhost fan, I love watching you utilize them, and am grateful that you have provided such helpful resources for those of us who want to learn to use them more effectively.



Do you have any general rule of thumb regarding how far away to burrow your hosts from the opponent's army, or do you just go by what feels right? My biggest issue is that I tend to always burrow them too close, since I naturally want to get as much out of the locusts' timer as possible. However this often results in my opponent being able to get right on top of my hosts and slaughtering them all, resulting in a gg most of the time.



Far enough away so that if the protoss army pushes I can get my swarmhosts away no problem. Don't burrow them close always start further back and move a little closer if you feel you can.



On April 22 2013 09:54 Tuczniak wrote:

Show nested quote +

On April 22 2013 07:43 Moosegills wrote:



A huge shoutout to Monk for editing this and fixing some of my awful grammer!

Can't tell if this is troll or serious. Nice guide. Can't tell if this is troll or serious. Nice guide.

This is pretty funny. I doubt it was trolling though.



You will never know!



On April 22 2013 10:41 DenTenker wrote:

^^ Thanks guys. I was wondering why mutas weren't mentioned. Looks early phoenix play crushes them. The only losses I've had with mutas is to early phoenix builds. I guess in higher leagues that becomes standard. Looks like I have to change my ZvP. Thanks again! ^^ Thanks guys. I was wondering why mutas weren't mentioned. Looks early phoenix play crushes them. The only losses I've had with mutas is to early phoenix builds. I guess in higher leagues that becomes standard. Looks like I have to change my ZvP.Thanks again!



I didn't mention mutalisks because they aren't a late game army composition. If you are going mass mass muta you are going for a base trade and that's not a style I am a fan of ^^. Far enough away so that if the protoss army pushes I can get my swarmhosts away no problem. Don't burrow them close always start further back and move a little closer if you feel you can.You will never know!I didn't mention mutalisks because they aren't a late game army composition. If you are going mass mass muta you are going for a base trade and that's not a style I am a fan of ^^. When I think of something else, something will go here

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