#IAmAUsing "being a mod" for attention

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[-] from karmanaut [M] via IAmA sent 4 hours ago

Hey guys:

So, I've been noticing around Reddit more and more that mods are using their position as a way to get attention. This has also happened with some of /r/IAmA's mods.

When I first took over IAmA from 32bites, mods had a big role in verifying information and all that, and that was bad. We need to step back into the shadows and just let users verify things themselves. Generally on Reddit, we're supposed to just be spam-filter cleaners. I've been noticing a resurgence of mods trying to stand out more and more, where we step in to "verify" things that already have proof, or use the mod tag when we shouldn't. That's one of the reasons Orbixx was removed. I was also disappointed by the IAmA mods IAmA. Frankly, that's not important enough in our lives to justify an IAmA. It violated our own rules.

So, before you verify anything, please ask yourself: Why can't this user post this publicly?. If it has their name on it: can that be edited out? Etc, etc. Before you use the mod tag, ask yourself if you really need to do that.

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[-] to karmanaut from KennyLog-in [M] via IAmA sent 4 hours ago

Perhaps you should also say this in /r/iamamods so it doesn't get buried?

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[-] to karmanaut sent 4 hours ago

I disagree.

I think that with the resurgence of /r/casualiama that we should be separating the overdone ones from the rest.

I also think that we should verify as much as we can so that we can set /r/iama out from the rest of reddit.

We have had some great iamas and I think that letting it go would slid it further into shit.

Let us be the beacons in the chaos.

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[-] to karmanaut sent 4 hours ago

If anything, we should put it to a vote.

Why you may be top mod on the list, you aren't the creator and you shouldn't have absolute control.

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[-] to karmanaut from BritishEnglishPolice [+2][M] via IAmA sent 4 hours ago

Karmanaut, there is no way we can only still be spam-filter cleaners. Mods' duties have evolved to the point of categorisers as well. If you're disappointed in all our actions, quite frankly I may ask if you could mod a bit more and remove more spam if you're quite so concerned; I find it highly insulting that you're proposing we stick to the spam filters when we're the ones actively trying to make IAmA a better place. As I said in the AMA, there are about 3 mods who do shit on this subreddit and I think their voices should stand out a lot more. Mods should stand out more. We should identify with the community more. Why can't we provide support to those who post proof? Mod tags bring attention and a feeling that the verification is good enough for even us, therefore the user is legitimate.

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[-] from karmanaut [M] via IAmA sent 4 hours ago

I also think that we should verify as much as we can so that we can set /r/iama out from the rest of reddit.

No. We should have more verified IAmAs that are verified by people publicly posting their information. We should try to limit our involvement in the process as much as possible.

I think that letting it go would slid it further into shit

Letting what go? I'm not suggesting that we stop verifying things at all. Simply that we let it be public and stop using our mod tags to show off, which you seem to do quite often.

Let us be the beacons in the chaos.

NO. We are not different from the other users. There's no power user class here. Distinguishing your own question in an IAmA, for example, is completely unacceptable.

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[-] from karmanaut [M] via IAmA sent 4 hours ago

If anything, we should put it to a vote.

Put what to a vote?

Why you may be top mod on the list, you aren't the creator and you shouldn't have absolute control.

Oh, I fully recognize that everyone else should give input. But, 32bites did give the subreddit to me, on the condition that I implemented my own rules and continued to moderate strictly. I am going to do that, regardless of what you or other mods might want.

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[-] to karmanaut sent 4 hours ago

Simply that we let it be public

If they wanted it to be public, it would be public.

Distinguishing your own question in an IAmA, for example, is completely unacceptable.

Who the hell has ever done that?

We are not different from the other users. There's no power user class here

Admin> Mod(in their subreddit) >User. Period. That is how it works. It doesn't mean that our comment should gain karma because it is made by a mod but it does mean that we have certain "duties" to uphold.

Put what to a vote?

This idea that you are proposing.

32bites did give the subreddit to me, on the condition that I implemented my own rules and continued to moderate strictly.

Moderate the community then, not us.

I am going to do that, regardless of what you or other mods might want.

This is what is wrong with reddit moderators.

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[-] to BritishEnglishPolice from karmanaut [M] via IAmA sent 4 hours ago

Karmanaut, there is no way we can only still be spam-filter cleaners. Mods' duties have evolved to the point of categorisers as well. If you're disappointed in all our actions, quite frankly I may ask if you could mod a bit more and remove more spam if you're quite so concerned; I find it highly insulting that you're proposing we stick to the spam filters when we're the ones actively trying to make IAmA a better place

That's true. Besides filter cleaners, our other role is to make and enforce rules that make posting in the subreddit better. Those two things are all we do.

As I said in the AMA, there are about 3 mods who do shit on this subreddit and I think their voices should stand out a lot more. Mods should stand out more. We should identify with the community more

Why?? Why should mods stand out more? We are not supposed to be any different from any other user in the subreddit. We are only supposed to step in when it is absolutely necessary so that it remains a user-controlled experience.

So please, tell me why users need to see more of the moderators, instead of getting more proof for themselves.

Mod tags bring attention and a feeling that the verification is good enough for even us, therefore the user is legitimate.

Also not our job. We are not here to endorse certain content over others. We should only be verifying something when there are legitimate doubts over it and the person cannot post their proof in the thread.

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[-] to karmanaut from BritishEnglishPolice [+2][M] via IAmA sent 4 hours ago

Why should mods stand out? I meant in this discussion that the mods who actually do half the shit around here should be noticed and their opinions given just a teency bit more weight owing to their efforts. I'm talkin' bout puredemo and the others. Users need to see more of the moderators to bridge a gap all over reddit in which the trend is becoming more vibrant that we're distant from them and we have powers of which they know not. This is untrue and at every facet possible we need to reinforce a positive image of ourselves as just normal users. The mod tag on verification of posts is to boost users' feelings that we're paying attention and actively keeping this place up. I'd rather we not slip and slide into the shadows of terrible moderation à la /r/lgbt or /r/atheism.

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[-] from karmanaut [M] via IAmA sent 4 hours ago

If they wanted it to be public, it would be public.

Not necessarily. IAmA ran differently for a long time; where verification had to come from a moderator. That's no longer the case.

Who the hell has ever done that?

Orbixx. Like I said; one of the reasons he was removed.

Admin> Mod(in their subreddit) >User. Period. That is how it works. It doesn't mean that our comment should gain karma because it is made by a mod but it does mean that we have certain "duties" to uphold.

Nope. This applies only to decision making.

This idea that you are proposing.

I'm not proposing anything new.

Moderate the community then, not us.

If you don't want to moderate, you don't have to...

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[-] to karmanaut from BritishEnglishPolice [+2][M] via IAmA sent 4 hours ago

But, 32bites did give the subreddit to me, on the condition that I implemented my own rules and continued to moderate strictly. I am going to do that, regardless of what you or other mods might want.

To be quite honest, I'm very interested in what made you say that. Are you on some sort of power-grabbing ploy, or something? In one paragraph, you take power, state that you'll moderate strictly despite just telling us to moderate in a laissez-faire fashion and then state that you will not listen to any of our opinions. How will you control moderators who are going to have their opinions ignored?

I mean for God's sake, I "control" /r/politics but I don't make huge policy changes or do anything without assent from other moderators.

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[-] to BritishEnglishPolice from karmanaut [M] via IAmA sent 4 hours ago

Why should mods stand out? I meant in this discussion that the mods who actually do half the shit around here should be noticed and their opinions given just a teency bit more weight owing to their efforts. I'm talkin' bout puredemo and the others

If moderating behind the scenes and not in the public eye is not a sufficient reward, then too bad. It's not a popularity contest, it's to make the subreddit better. Period.

Users need to see more of the moderators to bridge a gap all over reddit in which the trend is becoming more vibrant that we're distant from them and we have powers of which they know not. This is untrue and at every facet possible we need to reinforce a positive image of ourselves as just normal users. The mod tag on verification of posts is to boost users' feelings that we're paying attention and actively keeping this place up

Remember when the admins made the mod tag mandatory? Where every comment you made was distinguished? And mods were unable to post without being horrendously downvoted all the time because people felt like the admins were elevating the mods over the users?

Moderators should not have a large, public role. We should watch the filter and delineate what should be posted where. Using our mod abilities just to let people know that we're here is against the spirit of Reddit.

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[-] to karmanaut from BritishEnglishPolice [+2][M] via IAmA sent 4 hours ago

To make the subreddit better we need to do stuff, not just spam clean. We need to actively engage users.

Moderator comments shouldn't be made on normal comments and I don't know why you think that's currently relevant to moderators making "verified" comments every now and then on posts they think are legitimate. Do you know how many calls we get constantly to treat things fake until proven real?

Moderators have a large public role like it or not which is becoming more and more apparent on this site. Perhaps engaging a bit more can stop our descent into degradation of quality.

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[-] to BritishEnglishPolice from karmanaut [M] via IAmA sent 4 hours ago

That's not what I am saying at all. I am saying that I was given this subreddit to run it in a certain way, and I have tried recruiting moderators who feel the same way about how this place should be run. I posted this suggestion in order to remind everyone what our policies are and say that they have been ignored recently.

When I say moderate strictly, I meant having stricter limits on what should be posted here (important in your life, not one-time events, etc). That has nothing to do with how visible a moderator is.

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[-] to karmanaut sent 4 hours ago

Not necessarily. IAmA ran differently for a long time; where verification had to come from a moderator. That's no longer the case.

Iama has doubled in size. This is not even the same ballpark that it used to be.

Did you see the AMA mod post? Did you see how many questions about verification? The users enjoy what we do and are for us continuing to do so. Let them have a say if you refuse to be just and put it to a vote.

Orbixx. Like I said; one of the reasons he was removed.

I thought you implied that I did that.

Nope. This applies only to decision making.

How can you say this? How can you say that enforcement should not come from mods.

I'm not proposing anything new.

You are trying to imply that there is a new law about town when there has been no discussion. No agreement.

If you don't want to moderate, you don't have to...

Ditto.

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[-] from karmanaut [M] via IAmA sent 4 hours ago

Iama has doubled in size. This is not even the same ballpark that it used to be. Did you see the AMA mod post? Did you see how many questions about verification? The users enjoy what we do and are for us continuing to do so. Let them have a say if you refuse to be just and put it to a vote.

Which is why the verification system changed from requiring mods to do everything, to letting users verify things more for themselves

You are trying to imply that there is a new law about town when there has been no discussion. No agreement

... What new law? I am just reminding people of our role. I am not proposing anything new.

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[-] to karmanaut from BritishEnglishPolice [+2][M] via IAmA sent 3 hours ago

I don't know how you tried to recruit moderators who felt the same when we were all moderators of this subreddit before the shakeup.

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[-] to karmanaut from BritishEnglishPolice [+2][M] via IAmA sent 3 hours ago

If a sub doubles in size, instead of just saying "there are too many, give up", why not get more active people? Why do you think I'm going to push for 20 new mods in /r/askreddit?

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[-] to karmanaut sent 3 hours ago

... What new law? I am just reminding people of our role. I am not proposing anything new.

You are actively defining our role.

I think we had our role figured out pretty well.

Which is why the verification system changed from requiring mods to do everything, to letting users verify things more for themselves

That will never happen. You can't herd cats and you can't expect them to herd themselves.

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[-] to BritishEnglishPolice from karmanaut [M] via IAmA sent 3 hours ago

We weren't all mods before the shakeup. I re-added people who were removed because there was no reason not to, but I have also added others since then who I thought would contribute positively.

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[-] to BritishEnglishPolice from karmanaut [M] via IAmA sent 3 hours ago

Because the system was imperfect from the start. It was counter-intuitive to ever use it for non-confidential information, and having such prominent verification like that became a target for trolls to try and get around it.

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[-] from karmanaut [M] via IAmA sent 3 hours ago

You are actively defining our role. I think we had our role figured out pretty well

I am reminding everyone what the role has been for a long time. I've been moderating /r/IAmA almost since the beginning.

You can't herd cats and you can't expect them to herd themselves

I don't think people need to be "herded". I think letting them verify things for themselves as a group is much simpler and more effective than having us check every submission.

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[-] to karmanaut sent 3 hours ago

I think letting them verify things for themselves as a group is much simpler and more effective than having us check every submission.

That will never happen. Reddit is not that ideal

We don't check every submission, we check the easily verifiable, or at least I do. Or the ones that they mention verification.

The users often as for it to be verified before we ever step in.

You shouldn't surround yourself with the people that absolutely agree with you.

There will be no growth.

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[-] from karmanaut [M] via IAmA sent 3 hours ago

That will never happen. Reddit is not that ideal

That's not true at all. But it won't happen if we keep playing the old role and trying to verify everything.

You shouldn't surround yourself with the people that absolutely agree with you.

I'm not going to surround myself with people who aren't going to do the job correctly.

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[-] to karmanaut sent 3 hours ago

I'm not going to surround myself with people who aren't going to do the job correctly.

correctly.

Awfully subjective word you got there.

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[-] from karmanaut [M] via IAmA sent 3 hours ago

If you don't know exactly what the job entails, then it's a good thing I sent out this reminder of what the job is.

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[-] to karmanaut sent 2 hours ago

I don't think it is up to you alone to decide what our job it.

There are 19 mods here and well over 1 million users.

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[-] from karmanaut [M] via IAmA sent 2 hours ago

As the person who wrote the rules and then added the mods, it is up to me to decide how they should be enforced.

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[-] to karmanaut from BritishEnglishPolice [+2][M] via IAmA sent 2 hours ago

Am I to take it you're trying to assert complete control over the subreddit and its mods? How do you think we'd react?

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[-] to karmanaut sent 2 hours ago

As the person who wrote the rules and then added the mods, it is up to me to decide how they should be enforced.

That is a hell of a chip on your shoulder.

How about you step back from being a dictator and realize that ' Concensus based organisation is far better'

There is absolutely no need for this stunt that you are pulling.

The users are happy, the mods(well, besides you) seem to be happy and everyone got along.

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[-] to BritishEnglishPolice from karmanaut [M] via IAmA sent 2 hours ago

Sorry, how is "making sure that moderators are acting consistent with the rules" the same as "asserting complete control".

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[-] from KennyLog-in [M] via IAmA sent 2 hours ago

How do you think we'd react?

I am honestly surprised you guys are reacting so defensively, mainly because it really isn't something that different.

this stunt that you are pulling.

This is really overly dramatic. And don't talk about a consensus when not many mods are even discussing this.

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[-] to KennyLog-in sent 2 hours ago

This is really overly dramatic. And don't talk about a consensus when not many mods are even discussing this.

We aren't only discussing this in here.

This has repercussions that will reach far and wide in the world of reddit.

Especially after the 32bites drama.

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[-] to karmanaut from BritishEnglishPolice [+2][M] via IAmA sent 2 hours ago

Because you're the only one writing the rules and telling us to enforce them.

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[-] to karmanaut from PhilxBefore [M] via IAmA sent 1 hour ago

I don't really feel like I have much say in this topic because I don't agree or disagree either way. I'm definitely not a head mod by any means, but more of a little bitch drone. Define the rules, and I'll help in whichever way the majority deems necessary.

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[-] to BritishEnglishPolice from puredemo [M] via IAmA sent 1 hour ago

This is all a lot to respond to and address, so I'm going to stick to one central point for now.

It seems like the main issue here is that Karmanaut wants to manage, in very specific ways, how the other mods interact with the community, while doing very little moderation of his own.

The problem is, beyond Karmanaut's implicit self-elevation to "manager of mods," that we all obviously have our own personalities, and each of us is going to interact with the community as we feel is best, depending on the situation.

We obviously aren't going to implement the "personality police" here and there don't need to be black and white rules for this, particularly when there haven't really been any serious issues in some time.

This comment thread itself is by far the most serious issue I've seen on /r/IAmA in some time, and it is completely baseless.

I dislike these random proclamations coming down from on high that "everybody else is doing it wrong" because we're apparently too hands on with the community, when mods who haven't even logged on in months are ignored. The accusation that we interact with the community just for attention, which is the title of this thread, is baseless, offensive and extremely condescending.

Some of us are going to be more hands on, some of us less so, we each have our own styles and methods for how we connect to the community.

One person doesn't get to unilaterally dictate how the community interaction works here, and one person certainly doesn't get carte blanche to claim community interaction shouldn't happen at all.

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[-] to puredemo from ProbablyHittingOnYou [F,M] via IAmA sent 1 hour ago

We're all discussing this in modtalk right now.

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[-] to ProbablyHittingOnYou sent 44 minutes ago

Karmanaut, you forgot to switch accounts.

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[-] to ProbablyHittingOnYou from BritishEnglishPolice [+2][M] via IAmA sent 43 minutes ago

So where are you… "PHOY"?

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[-] from ProbablyHittingOnYou [F,M] via IAmA sent 43 minutes ago

I'm lurking. Can't chat at work though; just read.

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[-] to ProbablyHittingOnYou sent 33 minutes ago

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