[24/05/14 01:00:36] Cousin: Happy Birthday

[24/05/14 01:26:14] Andreas Kohl: Thanks, how are you?

[24/05/14 01:46:42] Cousin: Tali wants to talk with her big sister

[24/05/14 01:46:59] Cousin: When can she do it?

[24/05/14 01:49:35] Andreas Kohl: She's sleeping now, but maybe we can organise a call on Sunday evening whenever is best for you

[24/05/14 01:50:37] Andreas Kohl: We'll be outside most of the day tomorrow to celebrate my birthday

[24/05/14 01:52:36] Cousin: ok

[24/05/14 02:08:18] Cousin: I want to send the money I owe your mom for your birthday. Do you still have that Paypal account? I think your mom sent me her bank info but I don't know where I put it.

[24/05/14 02:12:08] Andreas Kohl: I'll ask her to send it to you again, I think that'll be the easiest thing to do while I don't have my own bank account (although personally I try to do as much as I can with bitcoin instead of fiat)

[24/05/14 02:34:06] Cousin: maybe I'll get some bitcoins on a lark

[24/05/14 02:36:16] Andreas Kohl: The price has been pretty stable for a while and started an uptrend in this 3 day period so it seems like a good moment to do so

[24/05/14 03:05:44] Cousin: I was waiting for the inevitable and total collapse, but it is taking longer than I thought. :O

[24/05/14 03:09:37] Andreas Kohl: The Bitcoin protocol is revolutionary, and is beyond any doubt the universally best way to bring decentralised currency to everybody everywhere regardless of government regulation. The protocol itself is on par with TCP/IP in scale of importance, whether or not bitcoin will always be the best and mainstream cryptocurrency is the only thing that's debatable, but crypto is here to stay.

[24/05/14 03:12:17] Cousin: How many bitcoins do you own?

[24/05/14 03:15:19] Andreas Kohl: I don't have any liquid bitcoins left right now, but I do have about half a bitcoin spread over some funds over at www.havelockinvestments.com/funds.php

[24/05/14 03:19:48] Cousin: I was going to send Joyce $400, which I though would be just about one bitcoin, but I just checked and it won't even buy one. In any case I don't know that she would as thrilled as you at getting one bitcoin.

[24/05/14 03:21:43] Andreas Kohl: They're infinitely divisible so you never need to buy a full bitcoin or any other type of round number like that, you can just buy any quantity in dollars. My mom isn't against holding bitcoin, although she's never bought any herself

[24/05/14 03:24:21] Cousin: I found her bank info.

[24/05/14 03:24:44] Cousin: Are you guys still in Spain?

[24/05/14 03:30:15] Andreas Kohl: We're still in Spain at the moment but the kids aren't doing well at school and I'd like to study in the US so I'm trying to convince my mom to give it a go over there (my grandma would prefer being there as well)

[24/05/14 03:33:07] Andreas Kohl: We looked at New Hampshire because personally it's my favourite state but it is also fairly expensive so we might search elsewhere

[24/05/14 03:41:55] Cousin: New Hampshire?! Are you crazy?!

[24/05/14 03:42:14] Andreas Kohl: Why so?

[24/05/14 03:42:41] Cousin: It's cold, isolated and conservative. Vermont is ten times better.

[24/05/14 03:43:45] Cousin: On the east coast I like Massachusetts, Connecticut and New York

[24/05/14 03:44:07] Cousin: Oh and Maryland is nice too

[24/05/14 03:46:21] Andreas Kohl: As a libertarian I'd enjoy participating in the Free State Project over in NH but I'm open about going pretty much anywhere, I just need to convince my mom that it's the best thing to do

[24/05/14 03:48:06] Cousin: A libertarian is a conservative without the compassion ... at least in this country. They want everyone to swim or sink, and that is not how modern societies work best.

[24/05/14 03:49:51] Cousin: I prefer the motto for the United States, "Together we stand, divided we fall."

[24/05/14 03:50:08] Cousin: e pluribus unum

[24/05/14 03:51:25] Andreas Kohl: Well there are all kinds of people that use the label Libertarian and quite a few do so very incorrectly. I don't want anything to do with racist, xenophobic and homophobic types such as the tea party folk, I believe in complete freedom, both social and economical, which includes freedom of movement, association etc... Nobody should be able to justify coercion, not even government.

[24/05/14 03:54:50] Cousin: They need a local phone number to send the money.

[24/05/14 03:55:38] Cousin: I used REDACTED as the email, but it wasn't enough.

[24/05/14 03:56:04] Andreas Kohl: REDACTED

[24/05/14 03:56:20] Andreas Kohl: Is my mom's mobile

[24/05/14 03:58:01] Cousin: Everyone likes those things, but what about helping poor women feed their children, paying for public schools and universities and helping the old get housing?

[24/05/14 03:58:34] Cousin: Libertarians in this country want to eliminate all those things.

[24/05/14 04:00:04] Cousin: The money is on it's way!!

[24/05/14 04:01:35] Cousin: 284.80 Euros to make your birthday a little more special. By the way, this money is from Tali and not me. So you can thank her.

[24/05/14 04:01:41] Andreas Kohl: That fallacy gets thrown around a lot, but just because libertarians doesn't want government to do those things doesn't mean they don't want it to be done at all. There's nothing government offers that the free market won't offer faster and at a lower cost for everybody

[24/05/14 04:02:49] Cousin: You are the son of a banker that is for sure.

[24/05/14 04:03:33] Cousin: I don't agree with you, and I have a degree in economics.

[24/05/14 04:03:54] Andreas Kohl: Thanks for making the transfer, I'll speak with Tali when we call her later

[24/05/14 04:04:37] Cousin: Read the book by the French economist Thomas Piketty

[24/05/14 04:05:03] Cousin: Capital in the 21st Century

[24/05/14 04:05:52] Andreas Kohl: Well if you studied Keynesian economics I'm not surprised we clash on this, but Austrian economics is my thing and I have read a lot of Mises, Hazlitt, Hayek, Hoppe, Rothbard so I'm not standing on unfamiliar grounds nor making an emotivist argument here

[24/05/14 04:05:54] Cousin: It's a best seller in this country. Vive la France, et vive la difference!

[24/05/14 04:06:11] Andreas Kohl: If I can recommend a French economist too, you should read Frederic Bastiat

[24/05/14 04:06:42] Andreas Kohl: La Loi (The Law) and his sophisms are a great read

[24/05/14 04:06:56] Cousin: I am a Keynesian. He is the father of modern economics and my personal hero.

[24/05/14 04:10:06] Andreas Kohl: Well I believe inflation to be a criminal injustice and taxes to be theft as well so there we are.

[24/05/14 04:10:28] Andreas Kohl: hehe

[24/05/14 04:12:19] Andreas Kohl: Anyway, libertarianism is more than just a consequentialist system of thought with a pretentious economic justification, its also a very ethical philosophy with deep roots in natural law

[24/05/14 04:12:21] Cousin: I should live in Europe and you in the US.

[24/05/14 04:13:54] Cousin: I don't disagree with all libertarian thought, just with a lot of it ... at least in this country.

[24/05/14 04:14:41] Cousin: Paul Rand is a famously repugnant libertarian in the states as was his father.

[24/05/14 04:15:16] Cousin: I loooove Obama.

[24/05/14 04:17:44] Andreas Kohl: Rand Paul has never labeled himself as libertarian, his dad Ron has had a lot of negative press and it hasn't been justified in any way at all to be honest, but I think we're going to have to agree to disagree here

[24/05/14 04:18:36] Cousin: Tomorrow you will be a year older and year wiser

[24/05/14 04:20:58] Cousin: I take it back, New Hampshire is perfect for you. I'll stay in Vermont ... or maybe Paris.

[24/05/14 04:20:59] Andreas Kohl: Do you watch Parks and Recreations? Libertarians and Liberals can get along sometimes

[24/05/14 04:21:44] Cousin: I don't watch much TV. I think I saw it on a plane once.

[24/05/14 04:21:52] Andreas Kohl: My mom says it's too cold in NH anyway hehe

[24/05/14 04:22:28] Cousin: Libertarians have a cold heart. I have a bleeding heart.

[24/05/14 04:23:22] Cousin: I love Europe!

[24/05/14 04:23:37] Cousin: I wish I could move there.

[24/05/14 04:24:31] Cousin: Maybe I'll move to Canada. It's the next best thing.

[24/05/14 04:25:51] Cousin: Barcelona was magical, and Paris heaven.

[24/05/14 04:26:21] Cousin: Montreal is almost as good.

[24/05/14 04:27:22] Andreas Kohl: Politicians of all creeds are the truly cold-hearted people, and with their lies they manipulate the populace. There's nothing wrong with the hearts or minds of the socialist, capitalist or libertarian citizen, they just have different ways of viewing society. Once one of them gets any sort of power over the others and coerce them to follow their views, that's where the cruelty appears. Libertarians (real ones anyway) are different in that they abhor coercion.

[24/05/14 04:29:51] Andreas Kohl: Libertarian socialists want to live in a socialist society (with public health care and the lot) that isn't enforced with violence, do you find that cold-hearted?

[24/05/14 04:29:58] Cousin: I agree with that. That why I believe in democracy as long as people are in charge things will be ok. They will make mistakes, but then correct them.

[24/05/14 04:30:29] Cousin: Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

[24/05/14 04:31:14] Andreas Kohl: Democracy: The God That Failed by Hans-Hermann Hoppe is a good book. Democracy is a failed system, that is flawed even in concept, but in practice is totally atrocious.

[24/05/14 04:31:39] Cousin: What?!?

[24/05/14 04:32:16] Cousin: You sound like Putin.

[24/05/14 04:32:56] Cousin: It's a good thing you can never be president in this country.

[24/05/14 04:33:01] Andreas Kohl: In concept it is liable to result in the tyranny of the 51% over the 49%, this is what happens in countries like Switzerland or Liechtenstein with direct democracy. In practice (everywhere other than switzerland or liechtenstein) it's oligarchical rule

[24/05/14 04:34:28] Andreas Kohl: True, if I were president of the US, I can guarantee that the position would cease to exist in an instant

[24/05/14 04:34:30] Cousin: oligarchs tried to kick Obama out and lost, and in Russia they are jailed

[24/05/14 04:34:57] Cousin: omg

[24/05/14 04:35:29] Cousin: I think you better stay in Spain

[24/05/14 04:36:10] Andreas Kohl: Pretty much every part of politics here and in the US is democratic oligarchy

[24/05/14 04:36:26] Andreas Kohl: You don't vote for laws, you vote for politicians, that's democratic oligarchy

[24/05/14 04:37:16] Andreas Kohl: Pure democracy like they have in Switzerland is still flawed but nowhere near as immoral

[24/05/14 04:37:44] Cousin: Politics is dirty, but it's the best alternative. Politics are everywhere ... even in families.

[24/05/14 04:38:30] Cousin: No one gets their way, you have to learn to influence and forgive.

[24/05/14 04:39:14] Cousin: as with politics old age is terrible, but it's better than the alternative

[24/05/14 04:40:05] Cousin: life is full of those kind of choices

[24/05/14 04:40:45] Andreas Kohl: What makes you think that I'd be better off in Spain? I agree with persuasion, but politics aren't a matter of persuasion, it is about coercion. Families don't coerce each other, or when they do, this is almost universally considered morally wrong

[24/05/14 04:42:25] Cousin: I don't know that you would be better off in Spain, but the US would be better off with you in Spain. You want to take us back to the stone age.

[24/05/14 04:43:56] Cousin: Your mom has been coercing everyone since she was a kid. Everyone wants to control their kids, their spouses, their parents.

[24/05/14 04:45:12] Cousin: I have to stop myself sometimes. Everyone has a right to make their own mistakes.

[24/05/14 04:45:51] Andreas Kohl: That simply isn't true, in fact most innovations and great advancements in human history have happened under free-market conditions or at least free of government influence. Government slows everything down. You are right, everyone has a right to make their own mistakes, and it's about time that is reflected in society as well.

[24/05/14 04:47:10] Cousin: In a free country the government is the will of the people united in purpose.

[24/05/14 04:47:40] Cousin: Paris would not exist without a government.

[24/05/14 04:48:34] Cousin: we are social animals, and we need GOOD government to thrive

[24/05/14 04:49:32] Cousin: Ant colonies have governments of a kind too because they too are social animals

[24/05/14 04:50:52] Cousin: if you want to live in a country without government move to Somalia and see how you like it

[24/05/14 04:52:10] Andreas Kohl: The very concept of a collective will is very dehumanising and scary, we are not ants, ants have a very limited neural pathway, they're living and walking nerve cells that react to a series of basic transmissions. If you reduce the human being to such, then sure, you can have the model of society you're advocating.

[24/05/14 04:54:22] Andreas Kohl: Would you have gone to Somalia while it still had a government? Would you in any way have felt safer there before the government was raided by warlords? I don't think so. Now these warlords have their own form of coercive tribal rule that functions just like government, but in those areas where warlords have not felt the need to impose any rule, there has been incredible social and economic development.

[24/05/14 04:55:40] Cousin: we are like ants. we are both social animals. we are not like tigers or foxes ... solitary animals looking for pray

[24/05/14 04:56:36] Cousin: all companies emphasize team work because it is the best way to get things done

[24/05/14 04:58:12] Cousin: The EEC is a great example. I remember Europe before the EEC. Spain was like a third world country.

[24/05/14 04:58:59] Cousin: As bad as it is now (and it is bad because of bankers) it was worse before

[24/05/14 04:59:01] Andreas Kohl: I'm not denying that, we need social cooperation to advance. But coerced social cooperation is an oxymoron, coercion isn't cooperation, government is false cooperation, a company doesn't need to coerce its employees to work in a team, it doesn't need to coerce other companies to make mutually beneficial deals.

[24/05/14 05:01:04] Cousin: All companies have procedures and policies and if you don't follow them you are fired. Companies coerce employees all the time, and if you don't like it get out.

[24/05/14 05:01:05] Andreas Kohl: Spain isn't much better than a third world country with the aftermath of the property bubble collapse, you can easily fake economic development with inflationary tricks but the downfall is always brutal

[24/05/14 05:02:11] Cousin: I just got back from Honduras and I can tell you Spain is paradise compared to that place.

[24/05/14 05:02:31] Andreas Kohl: We don't have the same definition of coercion. Coercion is the initiation of (or the threat to initiate) aggression against one's private property. This definition holds as long as you maintain that everyone's own body is always and permanently their own private property.

[24/05/14 05:02:41] Cousin: People used to starve to death in Spain.

[24/05/14 05:02:50] Andreas Kohl: Honduras also has much more government than Spain

[24/05/14 05:04:46] Cousin: The military is the government in Honduras, like in Thailand.

[24/05/14 05:05:14] Cousin: So you are concerned about property rights.

[24/05/14 05:05:39] Cousin: Not laws in general.

[24/05/14 05:06:56] Andreas Kohl: One thing implies the other, all rights can be derived from property rights

[24/05/14 05:07:26] Cousin: Most people who make car payments or house payments live under the illusion that it's their property when in reality banks who hold the notes own that property.

[24/05/14 05:08:11] Andreas Kohl: That's true, and that illusion is supported by many laws enacted by government

[24/05/14 05:08:15] Cousin: The threat to property is from banks and not governments.

[24/05/14 05:09:08] Andreas Kohl: I mean, if you accept a loan, you're not taking free money, it's important that people should know that

[24/05/14 05:09:37] Cousin: Banks should me more heavily regulated.

[24/05/14 05:09:50] Andreas Kohl: Banks should be completely deregulated

[24/05/14 05:10:20] Cousin: The create the illusion not governments, they market loans

[24/05/14 05:11:04] Cousin: the reposes cars and make loans to people only to take houses later

[24/05/14 05:11:18] Andreas Kohl: I get where you're coming from with heavy regulation, and it is true that depending what the regulation is that we're talking about, sometimes partial regulation can be a lot more damaging than heavy regulation, but a completely deregulated no-nonsense society works best, one where people know exactly what they're getting into whenever they sign a contract

[24/05/14 05:12:03] Andreas Kohl: Banks would be much less common and a variety of other services would take their place

[24/05/14 05:12:08] Cousin: Somalia has no government and no laws. You should move there.

[24/05/14 05:12:47] Cousin: Somalia is 100% derugulated.

[24/05/14 05:14:11] Cousin: In general the countries with the highest standards of living and happiest people are socialist countries

[24/05/14 05:14:30] Cousin: that is where I want to live

[24/05/14 05:14:51] Andreas Kohl: http://mises.org/daily/5418/anarchy-in-somalia

[24/05/14 05:15:42] Cousin: I don't want to be 'free', as much as I want to belong to a community of like minded people working alongside me.

[24/05/14 05:17:24] Cousin: Why then don't you want to move to your dream country?

[24/05/14 05:17:36] Andreas Kohl: One of the highest GDP per capita is found in Liechtenstein, the prince believes in self-determination at the local level and decentralisation of government services. Here's a quote by him:

"We are moving in the wrong direction. An expansion of the influence of the State has no place in a globalized world. Nevertheless, nationalist and socialist concepts have survived in almost all States. We should bid farewell to nationalist and socialist ideas to the extent possible and transfer more responsibilities to the citizens. We do not need more, but rather significantly less State. We must strengthen the will to engage in private solidarity and strengthen families as the foundation of society. "

-HSH Prince Hans-Adam II of Liechtenstein in an interview for the Jan/Feb 2007 edition of the Handelszeitung

He and his family look after the European Center for Austrian Economics Foundation

[24/05/14 05:19:18] Cousin: Of course they are part of the EEC and benefit from all that implies. He should walk the talk and become completely independent.

[24/05/14 05:19:24] Andreas Kohl: He wanted to give every citizen in the country the constitutional right to secede themselves and their private property from the country. Unfortunately while in the principality of Liechtenstein the Prince has half the lawmaking power, the other half is in the hands of the oligarchic democracy (both are trumped by direct democracy) and the oligarchs threatened to veto him, made him reduce that constitutional amendment to just give the right of secession to the 11 regions of Liechtenstein.

[24/05/14 05:21:01] Andreas Kohl: Correction: They're members of the EEA, the area, not the community, they can not influence the commission in any way.

[24/05/14 05:22:51] Andreas Kohl: The smallest region has a population of about 500, so if about 250 people decided to make their home independent from the rest of Liechtenstein, they could do so. This stresses the government to be as competent as possible (and thus as small as possible)

[24/05/14 05:23:13] Cousin: but that means layers of obligations and bureaucracy. why not walk the talk and live free or die?

[24/05/14 05:23:48] Cousin: Maybe because people don't like to die.

[24/05/14 05:24:32] Andreas Kohl: The Liberty movement is going a long way and you're going to see some amazing stuff happen within it, I promise.

[24/05/14 05:25:19] Cousin: as the world becomes more congested everyone will loose more freedoms

[24/05/14 05:25:26] Andreas Kohl: But the only place I'm going now is to bed, it's half past five in the morning

[24/05/14 05:25:44] Cousin: Good morning

[24/05/14 05:26:05] Cousin: and happy birthday again

[24/05/14 05:26:23] Cousin: The money will arrive in two days