freedombit



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Sr. MemberActivity: 274Merit: 250 MtGox: Still Relevant November 24, 2014, 06:09:48 AM #1



If 650,00 to 850,000 Bitcoin were actually stolen or seized, more than 5% of the entire Bitcoin economy resides in the hands of a small group of thieves. And thieves they are, whether they are hackers, exchange employees, banksters or government/court officials.



While there is no replacement for individual responsibility; a peaceful society cannot exist if it allows a handful of people to withhold information that could lead to the discovery of a potential hijacking of world finance and politics.



Where are the voices?



Feb 28: Mark Karpeles, head of the MtGox operation was the first to stop talking about MtGox after the company was either put into or opted for bankruptcy protection.



May 1: Kolin Burges and MtGoxProtest: https://twitter.com/The_K_meister



May 8: Sunlot Group wraps up class action lawsuit in the United States with behind the scenes settlement:



May 25: Willy Report by willyreport: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/26g46e/the_willy_report_proof_of_massive_fraudulent/



Mar 20: Erik Rodenbach, Mary Becica, and Kai Chang and the Stamen Group:



May 25: Olivier Janssens and the MtGox Recovery Effort: http://blog.mtgoxrecovery.com/, https://twitter.com/mtgoxrecovery



June: MtGoxLeaker and a very organized effort on Reddit:



June: Weili Huang and Petition to Nobuaki Kobayashi: http://www.reddit.com/r/mtgoxinsolvency/comments/276wcc/an_open_letter_to_mr_nobuaki_kobayashi/



June 29: Dr. Amit Steinhart and the Corporate Competitive Intelligence MtGox Investigation Effort:



Sept 12: Professor Karl-Friedrich Lenz:



A couple efforts that are still alive:



MtGox.gr, MtGox creditors:



MtGox Creditors:



Oliver and Gox-Self-Help



And then there is the Grand Master:



Nov 26: We should be hearing again from Nobuaki Kobayashi. This date is on the Wednesday before Thanksgiving, so any outcome will easily be lost in United States news. Hopefully Mr. Kobayashi will present the blockchain data for MtGox addresses before, after, and during the supposed heist.





If you feel so inclined, join the noise:



This Wednesday, November 26 is the next "Creditors" meeting, and still, no addresses or transaction information is exposed. This is information that can be released to the public, but hasn't. Why?If 650,00 to 850,000 Bitcoin were actually stolen or seized, more than 5% of the entire Bitcoin economy resides in the hands of a small group of thieves. And thieves they are, whether they are hackers, exchange employees, banksters or government/court officials.While there is no replacement for individual responsibility; a peaceful society cannot exist if it allows a handful of people to withhold information that could lead to the discovery of a potential hijacking of world finance and politics.Where are the voices?Feb 28: Mark Karpeles, head of the MtGox operation was the first to stop talking about MtGox after the company was either put into or opted for bankruptcy protection.May 1: Kolin Burges and MtGoxProtest: http://www.mtgoxprotest.com/?p=378 May 8: Sunlot Group wraps up class action lawsuit in the United States with behind the scenes settlement: http://www.savegox.com/?p=130 May 25: Willy Report by willyreport: http://willyreport.wordpress.com/2014/05/ Mar 20: Erik Rodenbach, Mary Becica, and Kai Chang and the Stamen Group: http://bitcoin.stamen.com/ May 25: Olivier Janssens and the MtGox Recovery Effort: http://www.mtgoxrecovery.com/ June: MtGoxLeaker and a very organized effort on Reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/mtgoxaddresses/wiki/analysis June: Weili Huang and Petition to Nobuaki Kobayashi: https://www.change.org/p/nobuaki-kobayashi-allow-us-creditors-bitcoin-community-members-to-join-the-mtgox-investigation June 29: Dr. Amit Steinhart and the Corporate Competitive Intelligence MtGox Investigation Effort: http://www.mtgoxinvestigation.com/index.html Sept 12: Professor Karl-Friedrich Lenz: http://k.lenz.name/LB/?p=10916 A couple efforts that are still alive:MtGox.gr, MtGox creditors: http://www.mtgox.gr/blog-news MtGox Creditors: http://mtgoxcreditors.org/ Oliver and Gox-Self-Help https://www.olivere.de/mailman/listinfo/gox-self-help And then there is the Grand Master:Nov 26: We should be hearing again from Nobuaki Kobayashi. This date is on the Wednesday before Thanksgiving, so any outcome will easily be lost in United States news. Hopefully Mr. Kobayashi will present the blockchain data for MtGox addresses before, after, and during the supposed heist.If you feel so inclined, join the noise: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=628191.0

bitboy11



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Hero MemberActivity: 534Merit: 500 Re: MtGox: Still Relevant November 24, 2014, 08:08:01 AM #4 Well of course it is still relevant.

In a few years, some investors who submit their government information will receive a portion of those funds.

DrApricot



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Full MemberActivity: 238Merit: 100 Re: MtGox: Still Relevant November 24, 2014, 08:08:47 PM #6 Quote from: freedombit on November 24, 2014, 06:09:48 AM This Wednesday, November 26 is the next "Creditors" meeting, and still, no addresses or transaction information is exposed. This is information that can be released to the public, but hasn't. Why?



If 650,00 to 850,000 Bitcoin were actually stolen or seized, more than 5% of the entire Bitcoin economy resides in the hands of a small group of thieves. And thieves they are, whether they are hackers, exchange employees, banksters or government/court officials.



While there is no replacement for individual responsibility; a peaceful society cannot exist if it allows a handful of people to withhold information that could lead to the discovery of a potential hijacking of world finance and politics.



Who is behind this apparent campaign of silence, and why? What if after this week's hearing in Tokyo, we are not left with any more information than we have today? In other words, the stonewall continues?



Apparently, Mark Karpeles himself has even signed on to this NDA, and can't talk about anything but the weather, his mother's apple pie recipe and driving around Japan in his car.



I invite you to review a list put together by freedombit last March 1, and ask yourself which of his six possibilities for what happened is most consistent with the stonewalling behaviour we have witnessed in the aftermath of Mt. Gox:



Quote



2) MtGox (or employee) was negligent, and was a victim of theft: MtGox accidentally engaged in fractional reserve banking due to a bug or poor accounting without knowing (the Double Spend) and one or more people outside of MtGox took advantage of this. (This is the equivalent to someone leaving the door to their home open and a burglar, seeing this, walking in and taking goods from the home.)



3) MtGox (or an employee) was negligent, period: MtGox put 800,000 coins into cold storage and forgot the password, building burned down without backup, etc...



4) MtGox is victim of government intervention: It is possible that a government (likely US or Japan) has frozen Bitcoin and/or FIAT cash accounts. As the hot wallets are depleted due to concern of lost Bitcoins, the company is forced to declare bankruptcy. Gag order prevents MtGox executives from saying anything.



5) MtGox is a victim of theft: Someone or group of people have found a way to steal Bitcoin from MtGox, using a weakness in either MtGox's software.



6) Bitcoin has a weakness enabling people to steal from one another.



Original post:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=494864.0

1) MtGox (or one of its employees) was fraudulent: they intentionally engaged in fractional reserve banking without disclosure to its customers or flat out stole fiat cash and/or Bitcoin.2) MtGox (or employee) was negligent, and was a victim of theft: MtGox accidentally engaged in fractional reserve banking due to a bug or poor accounting without knowing (the Double Spend) and one or more people outside of MtGox took advantage of this. (This is the equivalent to someone leaving the door to their home open and a burglar, seeing this, walking in and taking goods from the home.)3) MtGox (or an employee) was negligent, period: MtGox put 800,000 coins into cold storage and forgot the password, building burned down without backup, etc...4) MtGox is victim of government intervention: It is possible that a government (likely US or Japan) has frozen Bitcoin and/or FIAT cash accounts. As the hot wallets are depleted due to concern of lost Bitcoins, the company is forced to declare bankruptcy. Gag order prevents MtGox executives from saying anything.5) MtGox is a victim of theft: Someone or group of people have found a way to steal Bitcoin from MtGox, using a weakness in either MtGox's software.6) Bitcoin has a weakness enabling people to steal from one another.Original post: Who is behind this apparent campaign of silence, and why? What if after this week's hearing in Tokyo, we are not left with any more information than we have today? In other words, the stonewall continues?Apparently, Mark Karpeles himself has even signed on to this NDA, and can't talk about anything but the weather, his mother's apple pie recipe and driving around Japan in his car.I invite you to review a list put together by freedombit last March 1, and ask yourself which of his six possibilities for what happened is most consistent with the stonewalling behaviour we have witnessed in the aftermath of Mt. Gox:

1Referee



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LegendaryActivity: 2170Merit: 1420 Re: MtGox: Still Relevant November 24, 2014, 09:48:45 PM #7 Currently the largest wallet contains 144K coins, but a while ago there was a wallet with 350K coins in it.



Any idea from who that wallet was? An exchange or something? Or perhaps a large chunk of the MtGox coins?

Flashman



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Hero MemberActivity: 518Merit: 500Hodl! Re: MtGox: Still Relevant November 24, 2014, 10:07:28 PM #8 Recent statements by Roger Ver seem to imply that the lawyers and others have more to gain by prolonging the problem, hence, it will be settled when there's no more funds to bill fees against. TL;DR See Spot run. Run Spot run. .... .... Freelance interweb comedian, for teh lulz >>> 1MqAAR4XkJWfDt367hVTv5SstPZ54Fwse6



Bitcoin Custodian: Keeping BTC away from weak heads since Feb '13, adopter of homeless bitcoins.

Argwai96



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Thug for life!







LegendaryActivity: 1036Merit: 1000Thug for life! Re: MtGox: Still Relevant November 25, 2014, 03:06:02 AM #10 Quote from: freedombit on November 24, 2014, 06:09:48 AM If 650,00 to 850,000 Bitcoin were actually stolen or seized, more than 5% of the entire Bitcoin economy resides in the hands of a small group of thieves. And thieves they are, whether they are hackers, exchange employees, banksters or government/court officials.



The official story by Gox is that they lost the 650k bitcoin over a long period of time to many of their customers. The customers may have not intended to receive more then what they were owed but likely did not do anything to rectify the situation when they were overpaid.



Also it is likely that much of the bitcoin was lost prior to bitcoin being worth anywhere near what it is worth now so the fiat value of the losses at the time of the loss is likely small The official story by Gox is that they lost the 650k bitcoin over a long period of time to many of their customers. The customers may have not intended to receive more then what they were owed but likely did not do anything to rectify the situation when they were overpaid.Also it is likely that much of the bitcoin was lost prior to bitcoin being worth anywhere near what it is worth now so the fiat value of the losses at the time of the loss is likely small

cyberpinoy



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Hero MemberActivity: 1120Merit: 502 Re: MtGox: Still Relevant November 25, 2014, 04:28:05 AM #11 Quote from: Argwai96 on November 25, 2014, 03:06:02 AM Quote from: freedombit on November 24, 2014, 06:09:48 AM If 650,00 to 850,000 Bitcoin were actually stolen or seized, more than 5% of the entire Bitcoin economy resides in the hands of a small group of thieves. And thieves they are, whether they are hackers, exchange employees, banksters or government/court officials.



The official story by Gox is that they lost the 650k bitcoin over a long period of time to many of their customers. The customers may have not intended to receive more then what they were owed but likely did not do anything to rectify the situation when they were overpaid.



Also it is likely that much of the bitcoin was lost prior to bitcoin being worth anywhere near what it is worth now so the fiat value of the losses at the time of the loss is likely small

The official story by Gox is that they lost the 650k bitcoin over a long period of time to many of their customers. The customers may have not intended to receive more then what they were owed but likely did not do anything to rectify the situation when they were overpaid.Also it is likely that much of the bitcoin was lost prior to bitcoin being worth anywhere near what it is worth now so the fiat value of the losses at the time of the loss is likely small

The great thing about bitcoins is this, Did they supply the blockchain transactions of such claims. they can lie all they want, but the blockchain and proof of these overpaid transactions will always tell the truth.



Also i have to wonder if they overpaid to a MTGOX wallet for thier customers we all know they had the ability to get those coins back and make a new transaction for the correct amount. maybe not all of them but a most of them could have been taken back before the customers could move them to offline wallets. I know this ould seem a little scandelous, but ask yourself is that more scandalous than outright stealing 600 thousand plus bitcoins from its members with no repercussions for thier actions. not to mention the tarnished reputation it has given bitcoin. The great thing about bitcoins is this, Did they supply the blockchain transactions of such claims. they can lie all they want, but the blockchain and proof of these overpaid transactions will always tell the truth.Also i have to wonder if they overpaid to a MTGOX wallet for thier customers we all know they had the ability to get those coins back and make a new transaction for the correct amount. maybe not all of them but a most of them could have been taken back before the customers could move them to offline wallets. I know this ould seem a little scandelous, but ask yourself is that more scandalous than outright stealing 600 thousand plus bitcoins from its members with no repercussions for thier actions. not to mention the tarnished reputation it has given bitcoin.

Soros Shorts

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DonatorLegendaryActivity: 1616Merit: 1003 Re: MtGox: Still Relevant November 25, 2014, 07:11:52 AM #13 Quote from: cyberpinoy on November 25, 2014, 04:28:05 AM The great thing about bitcoins is this, Did they supply the blockchain transactions of such claims. they can lie all they want, but the blockchain and proof of these overpaid transactions will always tell the truth.



To prove that they overpaid because of transaction malleability the information on the blockchain by itself is insufficient. They would need to show their database transaction logs as well, and how the hell would you do that and guarantee that these have not been tampered with? To prove that they overpaid because of transaction malleability the information on the blockchain by itself is insufficient. They would need to show their database transaction logs as well, and how the hell would you do that and guarantee that these have not been tampered with?

magicmexican



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Hero MemberActivity: 812Merit: 1000 Re: MtGox: Still Relevant November 25, 2014, 10:45:02 AM #15 If a day comes when i will get my precious GoxCoins it will be like x-mas.

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In Satoshi I Trust







LegendaryActivity: 1148Merit: 1001In Satoshi I Trust Re: MtGox: Still Relevant November 25, 2014, 05:38:38 PM #17 Magicaltux (Mt. Gox CEO) tweets that Chinese and Korean hackers are likely to blame for massive Sony Entertainment data breach. No shared thoughts yet on how he has used his investigative skills to try to explain what happened to 650k BTC and millions of dollars at his own company, Mt. Gox.



https://twitter.com/magicaltux/status/537197032130084864







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