You were a trader.

I was a trader.

So you were one of those that was saying, "Let's go."

Yeah. We didn't have the superstar system at JPMorgan. We did not have that system when I was there, so I --

But you were, on the other hand, paid to seek out risk and insure it.

Yes, I was. But I was also responsible for explaining why that trade made sense to senior management, and if I couldn't explain that clearly, or if I couldn't articulate it, if I couldn't show numbers that made sense, if I couldn't work with a whole team of people and get them all to agree with me, then the trade didn't happen. ...

But in 2005, you go to a conference, a derivatives conference in Nice --

That's right.

-- and you made a statement there.

Yes. So I was chairing a panel of other exotic credit derivative traders, and I think I had a hedge fund guy there, maybe two hedge fund guys and some bank guys there. And 2005 -- at this point, I was overwhelmed with the interest in credit derivatives and in particular in structured credit derivatives. And what I saw was a huge wave of demand from the investor base ... in structured credit..., exotic credit derivative products. What I could see was a huge wave of demand. And the business I was in at the time was in training, and I was getting phone calls into our business all day long: "Can you come and tell us what these products are? We're investing."

In fact, I was getting phone calls, and this is what was really nerve-racking, I was getting phone calls from risk management departments of investors who were saying: "We've got a billion dollars of this stuff. Can you come and tell us what they are?"

And I remember thinking, why are you calling me now? Why didn't you call me before you made the decision to buy a billion dollars of this stuff? How can you, as a risk manager, hold your head up and say that you've done your job if you don't understand what these products are in the first place? Where were you when the decision was made?

And so I'm sitting there saying, "I think the world's gone a bit mad." And I look at the panel, and I turn to them, and I said, "Look, I think we've got some irrational exuberance going on in the credit department," to, you know, take a leaf from [former Fed Chair Alan] Greenspan's book.

And they all -- "Oh no, of course not. You know, of course we don't." But they weren't interested in saying that we had irrational exuberance in the credit markets because they were profiting from all of these investors who were interested in the product. And the next day, you know, the front page of the FT [Financial Times], "Terri Duhon says irrational exuberance in the credit markets." And I got phone calls from some of my clients saying: "What are you saying? How can you say something like that? You're going to scare our investors." And I said: "Hang on. I think your investors need to be thinking -- (laughs) -- spreads look really tight. What are we doing here? What's going on?" One, you know, do these prices really represent fair risk and credit right now? And two, do people really understand what they're investing in? I'm not so sure. In fact, I know they don't. And --