User Info: Iamvegito Iamvegito (Topic Creator) 5 years ago #31 kozlo100 posted...

The underlying idea of that, of course, being that your average Tom, Dick, and Harry are all pretty good people, and if they didn't have such a high tax burden they'd have the resources to help folks out,



The third libertarian to walk into the topic with utopian idealism that flies in the face of how the capitalist mode of production functions.



"Rothbard said it, I believe it, that settles it" isn't an argument. "It is no good hammering your sword into a plowshare if you must forge it again on the morrow. " The third libertarian to walk into the topic with utopian idealism that flies in the face of how the capitalist mode of production functions."Rothbard said it, I believe it, that settles it" isn't an argument.

User Info: kozlo100 kozlo100 5 years ago #32 Iamvegito posted...

The third libertarian to walk into the topic with utopian idealism that flies in the face of how the capitalist mode of production functions.



I don't believe I was talking about capitalist modes of production, but rather about charitable inclinations of middle class people.



It ain't always about CEOs and robber barons. Time flies like the wind,

and fruit flies like a banana. I don't believe I was talking about capitalist modes of production, but rather about charitable inclinations of middle class people.It ain't always about CEOs and robber barons.

User Info: Barenziah Boy Toy Barenziah Boy Toy 5 years ago #33 The underlying idea of that, of course, being that your average Tom, Dick, and Harry are all pretty good people, and if they didn't have such a high tax burden they'd have the resources to help folks out, and because of their locality and proximity, be able to do a better job of it than the government.

Which is complete bull, seeing as how the government already exempts your charitable donations from taxation.



Guess what? Russia has lower taxes. China has lower taxes. Yet, I don't see much charity per capita happening in that part of the world.



Charity isn't something that's absent from libertarianism,

It's not encouraged either. Progressive thinking however, does indeed encourage charity.



it's just one of those things we think people can do better than the government.

Except that charity absolutely sucks at fixing the world's problems. That is why they're always begging the government to either help them, or do their jobs for them

. You don't need a treaty to have free trade. M Rothbard

{Self-Hating Token Asian of the Ivory Tower's Zionist Elite} Which is complete bull, seeing as how the government already exempts your charitable donations from taxation.Guess what? Russia has lower taxes. China has lower taxes. Yet, I don't see much charity per capita happening in that part of the world.It's not encouraged either. Progressive thinking however, does indeed encourage charity.Except that charity absolutely sucks at fixing the world's problems. That is why they're always begging the government to either help them, or do their jobs for them

User Info: Iamvegito Iamvegito (Topic Creator) 5 years ago #34



And do you know what would be easier than hoping for those who steal labor (as surplus-value-as-capitalist-profit is effectively theft) to be charitable? Not allowing them to accumulate surplus value in the first place! "It is no good hammering your sword into a plowshare if you must forge it again on the morrow. " There is no such thing as "middle class." There are the owners of the means of production and those who have to sell their labor power to those owners in order to survive.And do you know what would be easier than hoping for those who steal labor (as surplus-value-as-capitalist-profit is effectively theft) to be charitable?

User Info: kozlo100 kozlo100 5 years ago #35 Iamvegito posted...

There is no such thing as "middle class." There are the owners of the means of production and those who have to sell their labor power to those owners in order to survive.



Who's being idealistic now? Of course there's a middle class in any real system. If you're going to crap on people for invoking Free Market Jesus, you can't invoke Free Market Satan either. Time flies like the wind,

and fruit flies like a banana. Who's being idealistic now? Of course there's a middle class in any real system. If you're going to crap on people for invoking Free Market Jesus, you can't invoke Free Market Satan either.

User Info: Iamvegito Iamvegito (Topic Creator) 5 years ago #36 kozlo100 posted...

Iamvegito posted...

There is no such thing as "middle class." There are the owners of the means of production and those who have to sell their labor power to those owners in order to survive.



Who's being idealistic now? Of course there's a middle class in any real system. If you're going to crap on people for invoking Free Market Jesus, you can't invoke Free Market Satan either.



Not one word you wrote there makes any sense.



All capitalists have something in common - they own the means of production.



All workers have something in common - they do not own the means of production.



Tell me, what class would you put "in the middle?" This is simple either/ or stuff. "It is no good hammering your sword into a plowshare if you must forge it again on the morrow. " Not one word you wrote there makes any sense.All capitalists have something in common - they own the means of production.All workers have something in common - they do not own the means of production.Tell me, what class would you put "in the middle?" This is simple either/ or stuff.

User Info: YouAreCrumbs YouAreCrumbs 5 years ago #37 JuliusSaci posted...

Nitro378 posted...

JuliusSaci posted...

conservatives =/= libertarians

when you're working 100 hours a week and still can't pay rent they're pretty indistinguishable



Well, I went to college on a scholarship and now I make 50K a year working 45 hours p/week. She most likely took many wrong decisions earlier in her life, especially as she was born in America, the easiest country in the world to prosper.



You forgot your gimmick, Saci, you live off of your parents' wealth and do whatever you want. Remember? joey444

We elect Obama and all the capitalists will be executed. This is a legitimate concern of mine. - OMGWTFPIE, 2011 You forgot your gimmick, Saci, you live off of your parents' wealth and do whatever you want. Remember?

User Info: Barenziah Boy Toy Barenziah Boy Toy 5 years ago #38



Until you agree upon an acceptable definition, there's nothing to talk about

. You don't need a treaty to have free trade. M Rothbard

{Self-Hating Token Asian of the Ivory Tower's Zionist Elite} ^ Stop fighting. You guys are obviously quibbling over different definitions of the term 'middle class'.Until you agree upon an acceptable definition, there's nothing to talk about

User Info: Iamvegito Iamvegito (Topic Creator) 5 years ago #39 Barenziah Boy Toy posted...

^ Stop fighting. You guys are obviously quibbling over different definitions of the term 'middle class'.



Until you agree upon an acceptable definition, there's nothing to talk about

.



Nobody was talking to you, liberal. "It is no good hammering your sword into a plowshare if you must forge it again on the morrow. " Nobody was talking to you, liberal.