On the newest episode of Social Distance, Jeffrey Goldberg and Anne Applebaum take stock of upheaval in Europe and new restrictions on travel and movement across the world.

Listen to the episode here:

Subscribe to Social Distance on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or other podcast platforms to receive new episodes as soon as they’re published.

Some highlights from the conversation:

Jeffrey Goldberg : “If medical authorities attached to the government believe that we will be able to save lives by essentially forcing people off roads, out of parks, into their homes for an indeterminate period of time, I don’t know, who am I to argue with them?”

: “If medical authorities attached to the government believe that we will be able to save lives by essentially forcing people off roads, out of parks, into their homes for an indeterminate period of time, I don’t know, who am I to argue with them?” Anne Applebaum : “I think this is a big blow for libertarians. It’s a big setback for the idea that we can all do whatever we want to do and everybody will be fine. Most people, right now, it’s going to turn out that they are willing to trade some liberty for the chance of not getting sick.”

: “I think this is a big blow for libertarians. It’s a big setback for the idea that we can all do whatever we want to do and everybody will be fine. Most people, right now, it’s going to turn out that they are willing to trade some liberty for the chance of not getting sick.” Jeffrey Goldberg: “I feel we, as a species, have been skating by, and not having this happen all the time is sort of a miracle too … it’s almost like a warning from the planet.”

We want to hear what you think about this article. Submit a letter to the editor or write to letters@theatlantic.com.