Rob Oakeshott says he is not prepared to support poker machine laws without a trial, landing another blow to gambling reforms championed by fellow independent MP Andrew Wilkie.

On Friday Prime Minister Julia Gillard indicated the Government did not have the votes to get the reform through the House of Representatives.

The reform is part of a deal made with independent MP Andrew Wilkie after the last election to introduce pre-commitment technology on poker machines.

Mr Wilkie is standing by the faltering plan and is adamant the numbers are there.

In a statement, he says he spent about two hours meeting with Ms Gillard and Community Services Minister Jenny Macklin and he was given plenty to think about.

But Mr Oakeshott, whose support for the package would be crucial, said in a statement that he could not support legislation until a proper trial of the technology was carried out.

"It is critical we have the detail on whether mandatory pre-commitment can work in an Australian context," Mr Oakeshott said.

"A trial, as recommended by the Productivity Commission, would be valuable, and a trial, like it or not, will take more than eight weeks."

Mr Oakeshott said he had passed on his concerns about the lack of detail on the proposed laws to Mr Wilkie and the Prime Minister.

"I am waiting for legislation to turn up, and if it's supposed to turn up this session without detail, it is not my job description to vote for a blank piece of paper," he said.

"I've let the Prime Minister and Mr Wilkie know that."

Mr Oakeshott would not say if his vote was one that Ms Gillard was referring to when she said the numbers were not there.

Fellow independent Tony Windsor also believes Mr Wilkie does not have the numbers.

Space to play or pause, M to mute, left and right arrows to seek, up and down arrows for volume. Listen Duration: 3 minutes 35 seconds 3 m 35 s PM says she doesn't have the numbers for pokie reform ( Timothy McDonald ) Download 1.6 MB

"My information is that there wouldn't be the number of crossbenchers to support the concept of mandatory pre-commitment that Andrew Wilkie has been pushing," he said.

Despite this, Mr Wilkie is sticking to his guns.

"I have spoken with a number of my colleagues, including as recently as this morning, and my assessment is that the numbers are there for this reform to get through the House of Representatives," he said.

He has also reaffirmed his willingness to abandon his support for the Government if it dumps mandatory pre-commitment.

But Ms Gillard has told Sky News she is not willing to punt on pokies legislation when the odds are so bad.

"We need to get everybody on the same page. They're not on the same page now and that's what we're working on," she said.

Sorry, this video has expired Pokies reform on the rocks as support fades

Anti-gambling campaign

Meanwhile, Mr Wilkie, along with other anti-gambling advocates, launched a new campaign in Sydney on Friday, to counter the club industry's own campaign.

Reverend Tim Costello says for too long the clubs' claims have gone unchallenged.

"To say to politicians, when you lick your finger and it's just the $40 million campaign blowing from clubs, actually now is the time to hear the wind blowing back," he said.

The Australia Institute has also released a report which challenges the industry's claims that installing mandatory pre-commitment technology would cost the clubs $3.25 billion.

Institute spokesman Richard Denniss says it is a fanciful figure.

"Our estimate of the cost is at most around $350 million," he said.

He says the industry's estimate does not take into account that venues would be spending billions anyway replacing their old machines.

The depreciation cycle for a machine is seven years, but clubs point out that in practice machines are often not replaced for well over a decade.

Anthony Ball from Clubs Australia says the legislation will send clubs to the wall.

"Let's say you're the Marrickville Bowling Club, you have 21 poker machines. You haven't bought a new poker machine in six years and you're not likely to for another 10," he said.

"They are going to have to find $600,000 to install Andrew Wilkie's experimental technology. It will kill that club quite simply."

One other report that Clubs Australia itself quoted last year came from Deutsche Bank and put the top estimate at $5 billion and the lowest estimate at $400 million.