

Cain And Abel Wifes I am in college and my critical thinking teacher brought up the bible. He ask if Adam and Eve were the only ones and they had Cain and Able then where did their wives come from? Could someone please help me answer this?



Moderator - Their sisters. Adam and Eve had more children than Cain and Abel. By the time Cain and Abel were mentioned, there were other people living in the surrounding area.



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Evolution by natural selection avoids all of these nasty and interminable debates. None of you has any more authority to "read into" the bible than the other. Perhaps god is smarter than all of us, already devising an elegant solution that does not rely on fantastical myths. --- Brian on 6/16/09



The bible teaches us that God created Adam and Eve as the first man and woman. It does not say that they were the ONLY people he created. Of course the Lord populated the land as he did the sea and the air, with humans and animals, and told them to go forth and be fruitful and populate the earth.



Many things in the bible are ambiguous, seeking to understand the bible is part of our religion and faith in God, but who are we to know God's mind?



Faith is the key. An amount of faith even as small as a mustard seed. --- Connie on 6/16/09



Cain and Able were the FIRST. It says so in the bible. If you believe the bible you have to accept the planet was populated via incest. --- Joshua on 6/16/09



"Even as the Lord commanded Moses, so did the daughters of Zelophehad. For Mahlah, Tirzah,and Hoglah,and Milcah and Noah,the daughters of Zelophehad were married to their father's brothers sons" Numbers 36:10,11



Every one of the 12 tribes had to intermarry with their own close relatives.

---Gina7 on 4/4/09



Gina you seem to have a handle on the subject.

Something else to note about Noah. Perfect in his Generations. He had not mixed with the other peoples. It was this line by implication that was flooded and wiped out. All but, Noahs. A new start for this people.



These are the generations of Noah. Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.

Genesis 6:8-10 --- Trav on 4/7/09



Genesis. Cain killed Abel. The Bible doesn't say that Abel had offspring. 5:4 says that Adam "begot sons and daughters", If not referring to grandchildren, etc., then Adam had at least - three sons and two daughters. The two lines of men mentioned are through Cain, 4:17 and Seth, 5:6. 6:2,4 says that the sons (human) of God had children with the ungodly daughters of men. It wasn't proper for the men to do so, (1Corinthians 7:15, 2Corinthians 6:14-18).





The probabilities are that one of them married a sister, and that his brother married a widowed sister, another sister, or a niece, grand niece, etc. It's improbable that God produced wives for them in the same way Eve was produced, 2:21.



-Glenn --- Glenn on 4/6/09







gina- The Lord does not approve of incest. The closer the relative is, the worse the sin.



Abraham married his half- sister, but God did not tell him to. He married her before he knew God. --- Betty on 4/5/09



Incest is a vile sin in the sight of God. Do you believe that?

--Betty 2/12/09

Marriage of sisters to brothers was not prohibited until Lev 18:11. This is why Abraham could marry his half sister, and even earlier, Cain could marry a close relative, possibly a sister.



But consider what is considered incest today. Most consider it to include 1st cousins, but God does not. Numbers 36 states:



"Even as the Lord commanded Moses, so did the daughters of Zelophehad. For Mahlah, Tirzah,and Hoglah,and Milcah and Noah,the daughters of Zelophehad were married to their father's brothers sons" Numbers 36:10,11



Every one of the 12 tribes had to intermarry with their own close relatives. Father's brothers sons = 1st cousins --- Gina7 on 4/4/09



MarkV: Twins? Hmmmm! I can see how that conclusion might be drawn from what the Bible says on the matter. On the other hand, it could be read as if there was an interval of time (like months) between Cain & Abel's births.



Whether it was two distinctly seperate conceptions (months apart) producing two sons or one conception birthing twin sons, I don't see it as a Bible altering issue (bone of contention). It certainly happened one way or the other. :) --- Leon on 3/3/09



Leon, you are presumptuous in that you showed scripture PROVING your idea?? ALL scripture truth has (2) two or (3)three witnesses...AKA: Other scripture to stand with that truth.



I showed you scripture that questions your presumptuous idea. If you are stating fact, them my questions can be answered...with scripture. I have disproved your presumptuous idea with scripture....and can with many more verses. David said, I was altogether conceived in sin. Was he saying his mother was a harlot? NO!



If there were ANY born to A & E before they sinned, THEY did not inherit DEATH as we do.



So, why don't we hear or know more about these PERFECT creatures?



Because they never existed is why! --- kathr4453 on 3/2/09



Leon, I believe you are correct in your answers. I see the same thing. Another thing to consider is that since there's no time element intervenes between 4: vv. 1,2, makes possible that Abel and Cain were twins. Another thing to remember is that the curse came through Adam and to all his descendants. No matter whether they were righteous or not they became mortal. For no one is mentioned in Scripture to be immortal from Gen. God made Adam our representitive so that everyone after him became mortal and a sinner by nature. His soul and flesh were both fallen. Both needing redemption. --- MarkV. on 3/2/09







Kathr4453: You asked me to show you where in Scripture & I did. It doesn't get any plainer than that. :) God bless! --- Leon on 2/28/09



Romans 5:12-14

12Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin, and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:



13(For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.



14Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.





So my question is, where in scripture is there any reference to anyone born BEFORE Adam's transgression? --- kathr4453 on 2/28/09



A man need not partake in the sin of another to bear the fruit of its iniquity, if he allowed it somewhat:

1 Samuel 3:11_14: "And the LORD said to Samuel, Behold, I will do a thing in Israel, at which both the ears of every one that heareth it shall tingle. In that day I will perform against Eli all things which I have spoken concerning his house: when I begin, I will also make an end. For I have told him that I will judge his house for ever for the iniquity which he knoweth, because his sons made themselves vile, and he restrained them not.

And therefore I have sworn unto the house of Eli, that the iniquity of Eli's house shall not be purged with sacrifice nor offering for ever." --- Nana on 2/28/09



Thanks Shawn T. for your advice. I didn't take what he said in that sense but after going back and reading it again I believe you are right again. It just so happen it was me who answered. I took it as a conversation between two brothers but the contend of what he wrote does not convey that. Maybe he didn't mean for anyone to answer it but I did. I am a sucker for the Word of God and believing in others. Thank you again, peace brother --- MarkV. on 2/28/09



Donna:-As you can see You missed the obvious- there must have been more siblings Girls They are the producers.

Kathrn:-Adam was incharge and was standing there He should have stopped EVE, or why else did he pass the buck when questioned By God. --- MIC on 2/27/09



Kathr4453: That's a lot of eisegesis rationalizing you've got going on there. :/ You seem reluctant to hear & let the Bible say what it says. You're trying real hard to make it a physical body thing in the Garden when it was primarily a spiritual matter. Remember, Jesus didn't come just to heal the physical man but to save the spirit man 1st & foremost.



You, dear lady, asked me to show you where & I did. :) But, you've chosen to close your eyes... & have gone off on blind speculations that can only be supported by what you think, not on what the Bible actually says. Like so many people, you're listening soley to your thoughts, not what Scripture actually says.



Please read Romans 5:12-21. God bless! --- Leon on 2/28/09



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The Bible makes no mention of Abel ever having a wife. He was probably killed when he was young, perhaps a teenager. --- Betty on 2/27/09



Leon



Eve first ate the forbidden fruit...and she died right then. Adam out of choice ate willing to die with Eve. This too is a picture of Christ's love for His bride when He took our sin and died for us.



ALL life born to them afterwards had IMPUTED sin. In Adam 1 all die. In Adam 2 ( Christ all who receive Him for the forgivness of sin will have HIS IMPUTED Righteousness.



Therefore if any children born in the garden born teh fall were PURE they did not automatically have imputed sin, because of both Adam & Eve.



If Adam chose to not eat....he would not be accountable for eve's sin. They were BOTH Guilty. --- kathr4453 on 2/27/09



Kathr4453: I'm glad you got a good laugh. :)



1.) G.1:27, "Be fruitful & multiple..." Did A & E obey God here or were they celebate until after being put out of the Garden, however long that was? 2.) G. 3:16, "...thy conception...In sorrow you will birth children..." Would this have made sense to Eve if she had no prior KNOWledge/ experience of having children? 3.) G. 3:20. A called E, "... THE MOTHER OF ALL LIVING before they were expelled from the Garden. That strongly indicates children, doesn't it?



A (not E, etc.) was held accountable for EVERYONE. Pre-fall children didn't have to eat to suffer the consequences of Adam's sin. Remember what happened to Achan & his family (Joshua 7)? --- Leon on 2/26/09



Scripture hints C & A weren't the 1st born of A & E. A & E likely had pre-fall Garden children. That accounts for the many "unamed" folk on the scene at the time. :)

---Leon on 2/25/09



Loen, that is so funny..Garden Children.



Anyway, you said scripture hints at this. Can you show us where. I see no where where it says Adam KNEW Eve, before he KNEW her and Cain was born.



I also wonder with that thought, if they had a fallen sin nature inherited from their parents if they were conceived before the fall? Wouldn't they be independent of Adam & Eve's sin and not inheriting a fallen nature? --- kathr4453 on 2/25/09



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Donna7663: We all know some people personally & others by name only. Most of the 7 billion people in the world we don't know at all.



"All the world is a stage. And all the men and women merely players." Some are "named", star players with big parts. Others have bit or seemingly no significant part(s) other than to briefly appear in background scenes & cross the stage of life.



Point: Cain & Abel (C & A), wed their "unnamed" sisters. It wasn't incest until God stopped it much later in history.



Scripture hints C & A weren't the 1st born of A & E. A & E likely had pre-fall Garden children. That accounts for the many "unamed" folk on the scene at the time. :) --- Leon on 2/25/09



---Pastor Herb



Pastor Herd, Why are you lead MarkV on a speculation hunt for rabbits?



-*-*-MarkV:



MarkV, Did you read his post where he stated "Beware of chasseing rabbits while fishing for men!---Pastor_Herb on 2/20/09"?



The Rabbits are speculations that have nothing to do with the edifying Word of God's Gospel. This conversation you're undertaking with him is one that trying to speculate about things that are not within God's Preordained Plain.



It appears that he's only asking you these questions, in order to get you side tracked from giving him the gospel(his words not mine) or he's probably playing a game to prove his point. It's either that or he doesn't really believe in what he's posting. --- Shawn_M.T. on 2/25/09



Markv,

Why did Adam and Eve not have any children till after Adam sinned? What if Adams children ate the fruit but not Adam and Eve, what then? Would Adam still be alive today while the rest of the world died in sin? --- Pastor_Herb on 2/24/09



I am sure there are people who waste your time asking irrelevant questions. I felt that was so recently and asked one of my own. If I answer your questions will you admit that you are a sinner who needs Jesus' forgiveness? He said no. I said goodbye.



Nonetheless I have met many who had valid questions about Scripture and have seen many of these go on to become Christian.



I have found that most Christians, including pastors won't or can't answer many peoples questions. This tells the questioner that Christianity doesn't have the answers so can't be true.



Who would want to make the sacrifices necessary to be Christian if it isn't absolutely true? Not me. --- Warwick on 2/24/09



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Or they will ask that question while you are witnessing to them in order to get you side tracked and not give them the gospel.



---Pastor_Herb on 2/20/09



It is answers like the above that caused me more questions...especially about authority vested in evading, pastors,priest and reverends that had no answers.



My GOD answered my questions....pastor.



Realize this is more salt than grace, but you should really step back and take a look the other direction towards your title. The sheep are being fooled at a compounded rate.



Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man.

Colossians 4:5-7 --- Trav on 2/22/09



Rev. Herb, good questions, I would like to take a snap at them, First, even if the child had not sinned, the child would still die. Because God, "Cursed the ground for all descendant's of Adam. By that sin all mankind became mortal." The child would still be a descendant of Adam. Now would it be fair to include the child in the sin? I guess we could ask the same question, why are all curse after Adam since we were not responsible for his sin? God made him our representitive and God is always right.

Second, "if Adam had not sinned there would have been no fall." Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. Adam turned his back on the voice of God, to follow his wife. --- MarkV. on 2/21/09



Ask your teacher what if Adam and Eve had one child before they had sinned, would that child be alive today?



What would have happened if Adam did not eat the fruit and eve did? Would there children be affected by sin? --- Pastor_Herb on 2/20/09



I find that most people who ask that question are not critical thinkers but people who don't know enough about the bible to ask the really tough questions. Or they will ask that question while you are witnessing to them in order to get you side tracked and not give them the gospel.



Beware of chasseing rabbits while fishing for men! --- Pastor_Herb on 2/20/09



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The Bible doesn't say Cain, Abel and Seth were the only children Adam and Eve had, they're just the only ones mentioned by name. That would be like saying there are only 3 angels because we only know 3 of their names. There was no law against marrying a sibling until much later.



Gen. 1:1 says "In the beginning..." and on the sixth day, man was created. In chapter 2 we find out God named him Adam. The Bible says sin came into the world thru one man, Adam. To say there were people before Adam would be saying they remained sinless, and any children they had also remained sinless, yet the Bible makes no mention of this. --- Laurie on 2/20/09



eloy- Good for you. Unstung, I shall go about my business now and leave you to yours. --- Betty on 2/16/09



Trav wants to also tell us that Aztec Indians have no soul. Do you know how horrible that teaching is and where it stems from.

---kathr4453 on 2/15/09



False witness,unauthorized teachers, teaching false doctrine,denying the prophets message, will certainly have it's special reward, we can be sure kat.



But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.

Revelation 2:13-15 --- Trav on 2/16/09



believe ,God made Adam and Eve 1st...not only. I believe He put people in other parts of the world.

That is my belief. This is how I have explained it to my children.

Guess we'll find out when we get to Heaven!

Audrey

---audry on 2/13/09





Audry, the real issue with that is original sin. It says in Adam ALL die. We were born into a lost humanity.



Did Jesus die for the others? Maybe you're not aware of this, but many perverted teachings today that black people have no soul.



Trav wants to also tell us that Aztec Indians have no soul. Do you know how horrible that teaching is and where it stems from. --- kathr4453 on 2/15/09



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.betty, I was not replying to you, you are mistaking my personal reply which I am addressing to the poster here named Donna, and not you. And if you read my reply to Donna, then you should note in it that I have also already stated where Cain and Abel's wives have come from. --- Eloy on 2/14/09



Betty:



The reason I mentioned Noah is that the Flood destroyed ALL humans EXCEPT those on the Ark. The only people on the Ark were Noah, his sons, and their wives. So, any children born after that point were NECESSARILY descended from Noah, regardless of any humans that were alive before the Flood.





Trav:



Yes, if the flood were indeed local rather than global, all such reasoning would go out the window. I haven't studied whether or not there are explicit references to Noah being the "father of all living" or similar, so I can't currently speak to this matter. --- StrongAxe on 2/13/09



I believe ,God made Adam and Eve 1st...not only. I believe He put people in other parts of the world.

That is my belief. This is how I have explained it to my children.

Guess we'll find out when we get to Heaven!

Audrey --- audry on 2/13/09



Strongaxe- Yes, I want to open that can of worms. You can have the worms and the can too. Faint - not. Look, I'm not finding fault with you but this is a serious matter. The Lord knows once upon a time Eve went out and found men. Guess why. Lord help you, you noticed that Eve was the mother of all living, right? Why then did you say all since the flood came from Noah? The Name of the Lord is sanctified. Perhaps you did not notice that Eve is not the mother of all living. God made man and woman. Did He say how many? Many years ago God created people for a reason - why was it? --- Betty on 2/13/09



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Manny- If you know that much, you are doing well. Where does it say they were all one nation and one color? --- Betty on 2/13/09



Eloy- When did I say I got anything from a teacher of any kind? Never. I said I got it from the Bible. Love the Lord, eloy and be good. Why don't you pray to God and find out where in the Bible you can find out who Abel married. --- Betty on 2/13/09



Kathr- Just because God blessed Abraham does not mean that God approved of everything Abraham had done in his life. It just so happens that God meant to find a man to be the start of a line that would bring forth the Savior, Jesus Christ. He made do with the material he had to work with. --- Betty on 2/13/09



What they forget is that, no matter what happened then, it all got wiped out by the flood. ALL humans (of all races) after the flood were descended from Noah, who was descended from Adam.

---StrongAxe on 2/12/09



The majority does not take into consideration the original word used for "earth". Erets, this word in their time meant land or country. In their limited knowledge and limits of travel....it would be the whole land or country. Their world as they knew it.

There was NO Global flood. All men did not spring from Noah. Other civilizations left writings in stone through the Noah timeline. --- Trav on 2/13/09



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As Latin was, it still did not make of all men one race. --- Nana on 2/13/09



Your teacher is not very learned if he does not know that Cain and Able's wives came from God, just as all creation comes from the Creator. And your critical thinking teacher went to college himself? How sad when teacher's do not know where all humans' and all life comes from, very sad indeed. For truly if the blind lead the blind, then both will fall into the ditch. --- Eloy on 2/13/09



Betty>> "how do you explain the different races.."



Let me throw back the question to you. When did the different races of men began?



Do you not know the story of the "tower of babel"? Betty, please read chapter 11 of Genesis.



(v.1) "And the whole earth was of ONE LANGUAGE, and of ONE SPEECH." -- keep in mind, this story happened way after the creation of Adam.. even way after the story of Noah. The bible says, that (at that time) the WHOLE earth was of one language, one speech -- implying that they were of one nation.. one race. It was only after God saw them (as they were building the tower), that He confounded their language and scattered them upon the face of all the earth.(v.7-9) --- manny on 2/12/09



Betty:



The Wise Men followed the Star of Bethlehem.



Genesis 3:20 says Eve is the mother of ALL living. If Cain's wife is not descended from Adam, then Eve must have slept with somebody other than Adam. Do you really want to open that can of worms?



People often talk about different races before, during, and/or after the time of Adam and Eve (for example, either Cain married a woman from a different tribe not decended from Adam, or Cain's mark was dark skin, etc.).



What they forget is that, no matter what happened then, it all got wiped out by the flood. ALL humans (of all races) after the flood were descended from Noah, who was descended from Adam. --- StrongAxe on 2/12/09



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Continue please...





This marriage was APPROVED by God!



Genesis 20:11-13

11And Abraham said, Because I thought, Surely the fear of God is not in this place, and they will slay me for my wife's sake.



12And yet indeed she is my sister, she is the daughter of my father, but not the daughter of my mother, and she became my wife. --- kathr4453 on 2/12/09



Kathr- Issac married a kinsman, but not a near one. Jacob married a woman who was not kin to him, and neither were the others. (Jacob was supposed to have stopped at one.) Abraham married Sarah before he repented and found the one real God. She was his half-sister. --- Betty on 2/12/09



Most of the time they were commanded by the fathers to take a wife for their son of their family. Issac's wife was his cousin, Jacob's wife also and so on.

---evangelistjerry on 2/12/09





AND I believe Sarah was Abraham's sister, or half sister.







--- kathr4453 on 2/12/09



Betty ... "God said you shall not have sexual relations with your near kin"



That was much later.



The Bible is quite clear that the first people God created were Adam & Eve.



If you think that by saying that I am parking my car over the flames of hell ... that is up to you!! --- alan8566_of_UK on 2/12/09



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Manny- You know this don't you? There's going to be a fire that burns with fire and brimstone. Guess why I say it. Lord knows Adam had an unction not to eat of that fruit. But he was a chosen race. How do you explain the different races? What color do you think Adam was. Really, God loves all people who are not sinners and that belong to Him, no matter what their color is. We are all one in Christ. But I want to know how you explain how the different races came about. Let's talk about it - we're not ostrich's are we? Believe me not. But believe the Bible. --- Betty on 2/12/09



StrongAxe- Wise men came to Jesus and called Him Lord. Who called them and who led them there? Why is it many people had rather believe that Cain committed incest, rather than search the scripture carefully for clues? My God would never approve of people marrying near kin. He forbade it. The Bible says Cain went to another land and knew his wife. Why would he wait until he got there to know her? Praise the Lord. God is able to raise up stones to be witnesses. He could have made a wife for Cain, but He didn't. Guess why? --- Betty on 2/12/09



evangelistjerry- The Lord says in Genesis that Cain left his father and mother and went to the land of Nod - then who went with him? Does it say his sister went? No. Show me in the Bible where it says Cain married his sister. Let me know when you find it. The rest of you can, too. God said you shall not have sexual relations with your near kin. Doubtless people who want to believe in incest would believe Cain married his sister, but I don't believe it. God could have made one more for Cain to marry. Marriage is sacred and incest is a vile sin in the sight of God. Do you believe that? What about the rest of you who read this? --- Betty on 2/12/09



Betty As for Cain's wife being alone in another land, the Bible says that cain went and dwelt in the land of Nod, it does not say that his wife didn't come with. When the Bible says that Cain knew his wife, you do realize that that means on an intimate level, right. If you notice when the Bible talks about a man knowing his wife in this form that it also follows with "and she concieved"

As for Cain marrying his sister marriage to family was a very common practice for the day and time. Most of the time they were commanded by the fathers to take a wife for their son of their family. Issac's wife was his cousin, Jacob's wife also and so on. --- evangelistjerry on 2/12/09



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Betty>> "...men and women lived before Adam and Eve..." --Are you sure this is biblical...?



"And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground...And the Lord God planted a garden... and there he put the man whom he had formed... and... commanded the man, saying, of every tree of the garden..." (Gen.2:7-8,15-16)



So God formed the "very first man" from dust. Then He put this same man in the garden and commanded (this same man) not to eat the "fruit".



So who is this man who God commanded not to eat the "forbidden fruit"? -- It was Adam. So, who is the first man? -- Adam.



"And so it is written, the FIRST MAN ADAM..." (1Cor.15:45) --- manny on 2/11/09



Betty:



Speaking of adding ones own observations:



The Bible never mentions other people before Adam and Eve. It never mentions Adam and Eve preventing Cain from marrying his sisters. When a woman marries a man, she leaves her father's house and joins her husband's house - so if she marries into a cursed house, she joins the curse. While Adam and Eve may have known about what happened (not mentioned either), what about their grandchildren? How many things that happened to your grandparents do YOU remember?



In short, you jump to conclusions without any scriptures to back them up - and then use these to deduce things that scripture says DIDN'T happen (i.e. if Eve was the mother of all, there COULDN'T have been anyone else.) --- StrongAxe on 2/11/09



Betty ... "Perhaps you did not know that men and women lived before Adam and Eve, but they did"



That of course is fully documented in the Bible, but I can't find it.



Can you help? --- alan8566_of_UK on 2/10/09



John- Further research could show you that the Bible is true, yet some men added their own observations. Perhaps you did not know that men and women lived before Adam and Eve, but they did. The Name of God is exalted. Cain could not have married his sister because God and his parents would not let him. Jesus Christ knew something about that. He said the family of Cain was cursed. Did He curse Adam's family? No. Furthermore, God gave Adam a new line through Seth. That's the blessed race. Why would Adam's daughter have been living alone in another land? Who was going to kill Cain if God had not put a mark on him, for Adam and Eve and their family knew what had happened and heard from God. --- Betty on 2/10/09



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Betty. You're wrong about God having created other people outside the garden of Eden. The Bible says that eve was the mother of all living. This means that all humans came from her. --- john on 2/9/09



Just because we're under the new covenant, it doesn't make us seperate from Israel and Judah! We are all one body! God only has one bride!

---BryanG on 2/9/09



Covenant. Look this word up. It doesn't say what you are saying.

Heb 8:8

Jer 31:31

and all the other places. The Gentiles referred to are 10 nations of Israel Divorced. This is confirmed in Revelations when the New Jerusalem comes down and the 12 twelve apostles are judging the 12 twelve tribes of Is Ra EL. --- Trav on 2/9/09



Adam and Eve did not have children before they were banished from the garden. The Lord gave Satan no curse until after he was cast out of the garden because the garden was blessed. The people did not receive the curse until they were cast out.



Adam and Eve gave God praise in the garden, but the curse came to them outside the garden. Numerous people think Cain married a sister, yet God had created other people who were not found in the garden. Only Adam and Eve were chosen for the garden, because He formed them especially to form the race that Jesus Christ would come from. They are the ones that the Bible concerns itself with. The descendants of the other people were destroyed by the flood. --- Betty on 2/9/09



As Gentiles, we are grafted into Israel by the blood of Jesus. Everyone who believes and follows Christ are His bride. Even King David knew Jesus! So did Moses and Isaiah. Just because we're under the new covenant, it doesn't make us seperate from Israel and Judah! We are all one body! God only has one bride! --- BryanG on 2/9/09



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Too katr, rebuke you only in your trying to teach. You take it as me a male against all women. Not true. I love your faith in King James, you dedication to work but, rebuke "this is the way it is attitude". It's amplified by what you are not seeing.



Realize this. The original wife of GOD was Is ra el. Men and women collectively. One Wifely body. The same people, Israel Judah are New Covenant Heb8:8. And you know/we know the Bridegroom cometh to humble Wifely body. Men and women collectively. Redeemed from first error,freed from divorce by widowhood. You fondly post, no male or female will be known....between us then.

You may be this new people, but marked with rebelliousness of Old Israel's attitude. --- Trav on 1/17/09



Trav...how do we know YOU'RE not a woman, pretending to be a man. Maybe you name is Travolina!!! Travelopenia?? Travesty?? Travelosity?

---kathr4453 on 1/15/09

Ha. Travelosity, is sofuneeee,travesty probably at some point in life before GOD.

Back to the question. Well,logically speaking I wouldn't cast out my own (Rebuke for teaching)(not sharing or talking,pointing,asking). Paternally/maternally speaking, my wife children would have to testify. As you can imagine they've been angry enough at times to give me to you.

According to your doctrine I'd be neither. Which I believe too....although in the next life if we make it.



--- Trav on 1/16/09



8 in the Bible signifies a new beginning.



When the whole earth was covered with the flood, it was Noah "the eighth person" (2 Peter 2:5) who stepped out on to a new earth to begin a new life.



Circumcision was to be performed on the eighth day (Gen 17:12), because it was the foreshadowing of the true circumcision of the heart, that which was to be "made without hands," even "the putting off of the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ" (Col 2:11).



This is connected with the new creation, also the New Heaven and New Earth of which all Born Again Christians have an earnest deposit.



The Old Creation, still held in bondage to Satan, is at war with The New Creation. --- kathr4453 on 1/15/09



Continue Please....



Galatians 6:14-16

14But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world. 15For in Christ Jesus ((neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision,)))((Paul rebuking the lawyers who wanted to put Gentiles under a literal law of Circumcision...which misses the point of Spiritual Circumcision))) but a new creature.







Trav...how do we know YOU'RE not a woman, pretending to be a man. Maybe you name is Travolina!!! Travelopenia?? Travesty?? Travelosity? --- kathr4453 on 1/15/09



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Too Katr: To the Jews, there is an eight day week. But in the seventh day you move back in to the first day, which is a holy day. St. John, chapter 10 verse 22. The feast of dedication was an eight day feast. Judas the Hammer, chosen to go in and tear down all the signs of paganism, and put up a new alter for the Jews......



---joe on 1/14/09



Katr:

Haven't verified but, Joe presents something we haven't heard. (Joe borrowed this for an 8 day question.) Wasn't there a Beatles song about this? --- Trav on 1/15/09



Trav, YOU are trying to have it both ways. YOU say God created Adam/Eve on the 8th day...

YOU're also saying not all died in the deluge, you are contradictinng SCRIPTURE. br>----katr 1/13/09



Katr,

Not saying anything scripture does not reveal. I'll only have it GOD's way.



Never stated 8th day. Interesting concept. Could be 1st day Adamic week.

"Adam" was formed. Day is not stated. My GOD can create an 8 day week if he can create all the rest though, if he feels like it. I'll live it.

Was no total world deluge. Was an appx 500,000sq mile flood that drowned all the mixed Adamites,except for Noah's perfect in generation group.

From the very first 5:1 Genesis it says these are the Generations of Who? --- Trav on 1/15/09



Trav, In Christ we have entered into the New Creation. Jesus is head of the New Creation. IN HIM we live and move and have our being.

---kathr4453 on 1/15/09



Again, one who blatantly goes against scripture in Timothy is trying to teach scripture?? There is a mark of unbelief on you. You do not really believe the above because you do not believe other scripture. There is only one truth. Not hodgepodge of confusion.

You take no pointed direction, from anyone most especially male. Someone hurt you plenty I suspect.

We could share scripture, but you reject original language for interpretation of men, instead of trusting A Male Form...our Lord, the only teacher.

ba & #770,qash,proseuchomai,charin,atta & #770,h. --- Trav on 1/15/09



Cont please...

Trav, In Christ we have entered into the New Creation. Jesus is head of the New Creation. IN HIM we live and move and have our being.



Circumcision was on the 8th day, and a sign which now is literal to those in Christ. In Christ, our Circumcision is putting OFF the sin of the FLESH. It's death and resurrection life IN CHRIST. Our History in Adam 1( those IN CHRIST) ended COMPLETELY at Calvary



2 Corinthians 5:16-18



16Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.



17Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away, behold, all things are become new.



--- kathr4453 on 1/15/09



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Trav, YOU are trying to have it both ways. YOU say God created Adam/Eve on the 8th day...after GOD finished all His work. No where in Genesis 2 is an 8th day even mentioned that another creation of vegitation/trees AND Adam/Eve with soul was created. YOU're also saying not all died in the deluge, you are contradictinng SCRIPTURE. YOU are preaching another gospel.



The 8th Day is the Resurrected Day of Jesus Christ, made without hands



Mark 14:58

We heard him say, I will destroy this temple that is made with hands, and within three days I will build another made without hands.



Colossians 2:11

In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, ...by the circumcision of Christ: --- kathr4453 on 1/15/09



It's just another gospel Paul said is ACCURSED!



Beware!

---kathr4453 on 1/14/09



It is remarkable you post the very thing that we've been trying to tell you. I am always amazed at the power of GOD.



Someone one trying to teach when it is against scripture. Not only that is the fundemental misunderstanding of scripture you try to link.

This alone has caused you a great confusion and blindness. You can't have it both ways.....go directly against scripture and then have any witness that is substantial.

Your own words judge you. --- Trav on 1/14/09



Genesis 2:2

And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made, and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.



No where is there spoken of an 8th day( AFTER Genesis 2:2, of which, after God rested up...HOLLO!!! ( obviously He must have been exhausted from the first 6) to resume His work AGAIN that was obviously according to this FALSE teaching....UNFINISHED.



If the foundation is wrong ( Genesis) the end(Revelation) is wrong as well. This false teaching WILL certainly deceive those who believe it, and fall into the hands of anti-christ.



It's just another gospel Paul said is ACCURSED!



Beware! --- kathr4453 on 1/14/09



1st Cor 15: 39All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, another of birds.



40There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.



So Genesis 1 has all vegitation on the third day, and Genesis 2, on the 8th day ALSO another KIND OF Vegitation and trees along with man in the flesh form with a soul???



You say the MAN in Genesis 1 does not have flesh/soul??? Is it Celestrial or Terrestrial?? Celestrial inbred with Terrestrial?



So the 8th day is a WHOLE New Creation other then the 1-6? God RESTED on the 7th...and was still WORKING on the 8th? --- kathr4453 on 1/14/09



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It's SOOO EASY.

---kathr4453 on 1/13/09



Kathr, you opt out of the question before it ever begin. I have to tell you I like anyone who stands for what they believe. But, when witnesses, especially scriptural, more especially original language show that there might just be a question on doctrine held....one can cling to the sinking boat or plug it up.

Now if you want to play barbeque the meat...you need some original language used in this case. Buy, or better yet...get esword on line. Free. We'll eat a steak,or I'll eat Crow. --- Trav on 1/14/09



Gen 1:26...the TRINITY are saying they want to create MAN...

Genesis 2 They are actually telling us HOW they created MAN after God's image RE: SOUL.



It's SOOO EASY.

---kathr4453 on 1/13/09

ever notice the differences in the order of the 2 creations? Not coincidence. --- mac on 1/14/09



Char/Trav,



If you are dividing Genesis 1:26 and Genesis 2 to be two different types of creations and peoples, here is a problem.



Genesis 1:26 were created after the image of God...you say have NO SOUL.



Genesis 2 ..nothing said about being created after the image of God...but have a soul.



So who is your first group....Angels? Monkey's, Angels do not have a soul,reproductive organs, blood, cannot conceive. ANIMALS and MAN cannot inter-breed anymore than a horse/elephant can.



Read 1st Corin 15 on the differences of flesh.



Gen 1:26...the TRINITY are saying they want to create MAN...

Genesis 2 They are actually telling us HOW they created MAN after God's image RE: SOUL.



It's SOOO EASY. --- kathr4453 on 1/13/09



