Kerry: If you’ve ever played golf, you know that you yell “fore” off the tee. You’re not threatening somebody, you’re warning them: “Look, don’t get hit by the ball, it’s coming.” There are any number of analogies. What I’m saying is, I don’t want Israel to be isolated—obviously not. I don’t want Israel to see further tension and problems. I don’t want to see that. I really don’t want to get bogged down in this because then I look like the analyst. I was really sort of saying that there are consequences to the choices that everybody is making. What I really want to do, Jeff—look, I understand Israel’s concerns. Israel feels that it is trying to protect itself. I’m sensitive to this.

Goldberg: When it comes to Israel and Netanyahu—if the deal is as good as you say it is, and the president says it is, why do you think Bibi objects to it so strenuously?

Kerry: I think Bibi, for years, has had an article of faith in his political makeup and his perception of Iran and the challenges that Israel faces. He has come to a conclusion about Iran that they will find any means, and do anything necessary, to follow through on their threats. We are not discounting the threats. We’re simply saying we believe we have built a structure into this agreement that doesn’t ask to discount his perception of Iran—but begs an analysis of whether or not it’s built in sufficient fail-safes against whatever they do. We believe it has. Our difference with Bibi is not whether or not Iran is bad, or has done bad things, or threatens Israel. It is over whether or not this step actually advantages Israel and puts Israel in a better place to defend itself.

Goldberg: So why do you think Bibi doesn’t get this, in your view?

Kerry: You have to ask Bibi. I can’t go there.

Goldberg: But you’ve asked him.

Kerry: No, but I’ve debated him on this. I just don’t agree. I think he’s seeing this the wrong way.

Goldberg: Do you believe that Iranian leaders sincerely seek the elimination of the Jewish state?

Kerry: I think they have a fundamental ideological confrontation with Israel at this particular moment. Whether or not that translates into active steps to, quote, “Wipe it,” you know...

Goldberg: Wipe it off the map.

Kerry: I don’t know the answer to that. I haven’t seen anything that says to me—they’ve got 80,000 rockets in Hezbollah pointed at Israel, and any number of choices could have been made. They didn’t make the bomb when they had enough material for 10 to 12. They’ve signed on to an agreement where they say they’ll never try and make one and we have a mechanism in place where we can prove that. So I don’t want to get locked into that debate. I think it’s a waste of time here.

I operate on the presumption that Iran is a fundamental danger, that they are engaged in negative activities throughout the region, that they’re destabilizing places, and that they consider Israel a fundamental enemy at this moment in time. Everything we have done here, Jeff, is not to overlook anything or to diminish any of that; it is to build a bulwark, build an antidote. If what Bibi says is true, that they are really plotting this destruction, then having the mechanism to get rid of nuclear weapons is a prima facie first place to start, and you’re better off eliminating the nuclear weapon if that’s their plan. Then we can deal with the other things.

Goldberg: Let me posit this analysis: that the deal is actually good, but then it becomes bad 10 years down the road. As a confidence-building measure, you’ve curtailed their ability to get to a bomb, but 10 or 15 years down the road, their breakout time shrinks back down to a month or two.