Original Post

Mark Hanna · Joined Jun 2012 · Points: 0 Oct 20, 2014 · Unknown Hometown The climber who fell is Boris from Austria. He is a friend and coworker of my friends and he took a very bad fall right at the end of the day. There were four of us climbing on the West Ridge and we split up into two parties of two. Boris and his partner were top roping Iron Horse as the last climb of the day and he had just topped out at the anchors and yelled out OK.



His belayer took him off belay thinking he would repel down as they had done on the other climbs they had done earlier in the day. But he leaned back to be lowered and fell ~60 feet to a ledge ~20 off the ground and was caught by a small juniper before he fell all the way to the ground. I scrambled up and secured him and tried to keep him comfortable until the RM rescue got there. He regained consciousness after a few minutes and was able to talk and answer questions which is good as he was not wearing his helmet for toproping. He had a pretty bad scalp laceration and some difficulty moving his fingers, so they are evaluating him for spinal injury. They flew him down to St. Anthonys hospital in Lakewood.



I just had an update on him and he is in stable condition. The doctors do not think he has a spinal injury at this time, but further tests are need. He does have multiple fractures - ankle, femur and pelvis, so he will have a long recovery, but I'm glad he didn't sustain a head or spine injury.



This is a common type of accident, and belayer and climber need to be clear on what the climber will do when he reaches the anchors before the climber leaves the ground. Also if he would have yelled out TAKE and LOWER it would have made it clear to the belayer that he was ready to be lowered.

kirkadirka · Joined Jan 2006 · Points: 235 Oct 20, 2014 · El Manzano Thanks for the update Mark.



My girlfriend and I were on scene with you and made the 911 call. You did a hell of a job keeping Boris stable until RMR showed up.



I generally agree with your initial assessment of the accident as well. Never assume, always make eye contact with your belayer if you can.



Boris, you are one tough (and lucky) dude. Heal fast.

Craig Childre · Joined Aug 2006 · Points: 4,930 Oct 20, 2014 · Lubbock, Texas I nearly witnessed a similar accident. All seemed well and good on the ground with good preparation: "You going to rap down?" asked the belayer, and climber answered "Yes!". Most days at this 30' wall are pretty lax, but wind can wrench up the works. So the climber sends, and clips to the anchor, setting up to rap. Belayer, his job finished, unclips and removes his harness and begins loading his pack. Then we hear from above "TAKE! Ready to lower..." earning the response... "STOP!!NO!!" as my partner scrambled to secure the rope and reestablish a belay. Climber had forgotten during her ascent, and the belayer didn't confirm she was rapping before breaking out of the belay.



I personally like to stay in the belay till they pull up the rope to thread the anchor. I feel the job isn't finished till both ends of the rope are on the ground and I am positive the climber is rapping down. If your partner doesn't use a prussik back up while rapping, a firemans belay can provide additional security.

Alexey Dynkin · Joined Oct 2014 · Points: 0 Oct 20, 2014 · Boulder, CO In theory, it should be very straightforward. Belayer must keep belaying until he/she positively hears "off belay". Climber who calls "off belay" cannot assume he/she is on belay unless requesting it and getting audible confirmation via "on belay". In practice of course, things like wind, other noise distractions, extra communications and various assumptions people make can make this less obvious. We've all been there, and it's an important reminder to always remember the importance of clear communication when climbing, even in a "casual" toprope setting.



Glad to hear the injured climber is recovering well!

csproul · Joined Dec 2009 · Points: 330 Oct 20, 2014 · Apex, NC For fux sake..."ok" does not mean "take me off belay"..."off belay" is the ONLY command (or safe or whatever you use if your not from the US) that should result in your belayer removing your belay. At the same time, "ok" is NOT a useful command.



Communicate your intentions on the ground before you go up.



If you expect to be lowered. Yell "take". "ok" is NOT a command with any meaning while climbing. As a climber, I hold on to the belayer side of the rope (if I haven't tethered into the anchor to clean it) until I feel the belayer take my weight. If I have used a tether, I keep it in place until i feel the belayer take my weight.



I really hope that Boris ends up ok from this and I also hope that both climber and belayer learn from this and continue to climb with a better respect for gravity.

David Carey · Joined Apr 2011 · Points: 120 Oct 20, 2014 · Morrison, CO First of all, I could easily see this happen and condolences to the people involved...a terrible situation. I'm sure this topic has been beaten to death, but I think my partners' and my system is close to flawless. The only time the belayer takes a person off is the sequence below:



1) Climber calls Off-belay (asking to be taken off)

2) Belayer calls taking you off belay (verification of hearing)

3) Climber calls thanks (now belayer takes off belay)



With out 2 and 3, I think there are is a lot of room for error especially in noisy places.



When you can't hear, that is a tougher scenario, but worst case belay out until it hits your harness then take them off or use rope pulls and common sense but that requires trusting your partner pretty well and understanding their system so perhaps just belay until the harness hits as if simul-climbing.



Cheers,

Dave

Greg Barnes · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 1,939 Oct 20, 2014 · Unknown Hometown Hope Boris heals up without any lasting injuries!



This is one of the most common accidents in climbing. After many years of climbing with random climbers from all over the world, here's what I do:



1) decide on what the climber is going to do before they leave the ground. This has to be explicit since people are often used to doing things one particular way at their crag or in their country.

2) I always assume that the leader may forget what they decided to do (particularly if they get sketched out on lead!), so I keep them on belay anyway, even if they call "off belay." That's also because a lot of people get so used to saying "off belay" when they clip in that they forget that they'll want to be on belay later on - so they never say "on belay?" later.

3) as the leader, I rap (saves wear on chains as well!). In cases where that's not practical, before the start of the lower I always grab the other side of the rope with both hands and visually double-check that the belayer has me.

4) if I need to lower instead of rap, and the conditions are not ideal for double-checking (like not being able to see or hear the belayer), I often grab my belay device and a bit of slack and simply throw myself on belay and lower myself, then when I can see the belayer & communicate, have them take me off belay as I finish lowering myself to the ground.



Keep safe out there!



Good luck with healing up fast Boris!

Matt Pierce · Joined May 2010 · Points: 301 Oct 20, 2014 · Denver, CO Thanks for the update - Good luck in your recovery Boris!



As a side note - I wonder why more people dont use small 2-way radios? Especially on multipitch and with wind, creek and traffic noise...

John Byrnes · Joined Dec 2007 · Points: 397 Oct 21, 2014 · Fort Collins, CO Matt Pierce wrote: I wonder why more people dont use small 2-way radios? Especially on multipitch and with wind, creek and traffic noise... Harshness alert! If you don't like a spade being called a spade, don't read this. On the other hand, there's obviously a lot of people out there who need to read this.



The judgment of Gravity is swift, sure, uncompromising and uncaring.



These types of accidents happen so frequently these days that they define an entire new genre. Let's call it the "I'm too cool or complacent to use the standard belay signals and double-check my rig" genre.



"Okay" is NOT a belay signal.



Taking your partner off belay when the signal is unclear (eg. "Okay", wind, creek noise) is stupid and often fatal.



Calling "Off Belay" when you intend to lower, is stupid and sometimes fatal.



Here's the most important one:

Not double-checking that the rope (lowering) or your rap-setup takes your weight before unclipping from the anchor is really stupid, and generally fatal. If you don't know how to do this, learn. If you know how but don't then Gravity will be your judge.



P.S. Not checking your partner's knot or belay before leaving the ground falls (pun intended) into the same genre. On the other hand, there's obviously a lot of people out there whoto read this.The judgment of Gravity is swift, sure, uncompromising and uncaring.These types of accidents happen so frequently these days that they define an entire new genre. Let's call it the "I'm too cool or complacent to use the standard belay signals and double-check my rig" genre."Okay" is NOT a belay signal.Taking your partner off belay when the signal is unclear (eg. "Okay", wind, creek noise) is stupid and often fatal.Calling "Off Belay" when you intend to lower, is stupid and sometimes fatal.Not double-checking that the rope (lowering) or your rap-setup takes your weightunclipping from the anchor is really stupid, and generally fatal. If you don't know how to do this, learn. If you know how but don't then Gravity will be your judge.P.S. Not checking your partner's knot or belay before leaving the ground falls (pun intended) into the same genre.

Bill M · Joined Jun 2010 · Points: 317 Oct 21, 2014 · Fort Collins, CO I have to agree witht the previous post. I decked in a climbing gym because my belayer rigged his grigri backwards and then lost control of the belay

runout · Joined Jun 2013 · Points: 30 Oct 21, 2014 · Unknown Hometown Bill M wrote: I have to agree witht the previous post. I decked in a climbing gym because my belayer rigged his grigri backwards and then lost control of the belay You should have double checked his setup (your belay), and he should have checked your knot before you started climbing.



Belay accidents are preventable. You should have double checked his setup (your belay), and he should have checked your knot before you started climbing.Belay accidents are preventable.

Craig Childre · Joined Aug 2006 · Points: 4,930 Oct 21, 2014 · Lubbock, Texas Another aspect that can escape some of us. I grew up climbing in almost empty climbing area. Rarely did we see other climbers. So we head to Potreo, it became clear that one needed to address their partner by name. In very crowded crags, clear communication isn't always sufficient, as you might hear a call from an adjoining route and think it's your partner. Addressing them by name can help avoid errors.

Matt Pierce · Joined May 2010 · Points: 301 Oct 21, 2014 · Denver, CO John Byrnes wrote: Harshness alert! If you don't like a spade being called a spade, don't read this. On the other hand, there's obviously a lot of people out there who need to read this. The judgment of Gravity is swift, sure, uncompromising and uncaring. These types of accidents happen so frequently these days that they define an entire new genre. Let's call it the "I'm too cool or complacent to use the standard belay signals and double-check my rig" genre. "Okay" is NOT a belay signal. Taking your partner off belay when the signal is unclear (eg. "Okay", wind, creek noise) is stupid and often fatal. Calling "Off Belay" when you intend to lower, is stupid and sometimes fatal. Here's the most important one: Not double-checking that the rope (lowering) or your rap-setup takes your weight before unclipping from the anchor is really stupid, and generally fatal. If you don't know how to do this, learn. If you know how but don't then Gravity will be your judge. P.S. Not checking your partner's knot or belay before leaving the ground falls (pun intended) into the same genre. I'm not disagreeing with you. My question was more geared toward multi-pitch - where my leader has run out a long pitch or 2 and I have long since lost sight of him. Yes we have signals and yes they work but I've often wondered what is a better solution when you clearly can not see or hear your leader. I'm not disagreeing with you. My question was more geared toward multi-pitch - where my leader has run out a long pitch or 2 and I have long since lost sight of him. Yes we have signals and yes they work but I've often wondered what is a better solution when you clearly can not see or hear your leader.

The Blueprint Part Dank · Joined Jun 2013 · Points: 460 Oct 21, 2014 · FEMA Region VIII Matt Pierce wrote: I'm not disagreeing with you. My question was more geared toward multi-pitch - where my leader has run out a long pitch or 2 and I have long since lost sight of him. Yes we have signals and yes they work but I've often wondered what is a better solution when you clearly can not see or hear your leader. Leave him on belay until the rope comes taught on the anchor. Wait a minute or two, if he's at all smart, then he'll figure out what's up and put you on belay, if you're still worried, then very cautiously leave the anchor, see if he starts pulling up slack, if not, there's a problem, and you may need to climb back down, rebuild the anchor and wait until he gets the memo Leave him on belay until the rope comes taught on the anchor. Wait a minute or two, if he's at all smart, then he'll figure out what's up and put you on belay, if you're still worried, then very cautiously leave the anchor, see if he starts pulling up slack, if not, there's a problem, and you may need to climb back down, rebuild the anchor and wait until he gets the memo

John Byrnes · Joined Dec 2007 · Points: 397 Oct 21, 2014 · Fort Collins, CO Matt Pierce wrote: I'm not disagreeing with you. My question was more geared toward multi-pitch - where my leader has run out a long pitch or 2 and I have long since lost sight of him. Yes we have signals and yes they work but I've often wondered what is a better solution when you clearly can not see or hear your leader. You never take your leader off belay until you get a clear signal. If you can't hear him, you leave him on belay until he takes up all the rope and starts tugging on you.



Commonly, three strong, slow tugs is on-belay (agree beforehand). At that point you can take him off, and he should take up the rope that was in the device. Give him two tugs for "climbing", and again, any extra rope should be take up before you unclip. You never take your leader off belay until you get a clear signal. If you can't hear him, you leave him on belay until he takes up all the rope and starts tugging on you.Commonly, three strong, slow tugs is on-belay (agree beforehand). At that point you can take him off, and he should take up the rope that was in the device. Give him two tugs for "climbing", and again, any extra rope should be take up before you unclip.

Alexey Dynkin · Joined Oct 2014 · Points: 0 Oct 21, 2014 · Boulder, CO John Byrnes wrote: You never take your leader off belay until you get a clear signal. If you can't hear him, you leave him on belay until he takes up all the rope and starts tugging on you. Commonly, three strong, slow tugs is on-belay (agree beforehand). At that point you can take him off, and he should take up the rope that was in the device. Give him two tugs for "climbing", and again, any extra rope should be take up before you unclip. In practice, the "tug" method is often unreliable, particularly when you have a long, wandering pitch with a lot of friction in the system. I generally follow an agreed-upon "one-minute rule" with my climbing partners: once the rope comes taut, wait one minute and then start climbing. I also climb slowly for the first few moves and make sure that the slack is being taken up before continuing. In practice, the "tug" method is often unreliable, particularly when you have a long, wandering pitch with a lot of friction in the system. I generally follow an agreed-upon "one-minute rule" with my climbing partners: once the rope comes taut, wait one minute and then start climbing. I also climb slowly for the first few moves and make sure that the slack is being taken up before continuing.

csproul · Joined Dec 2009 · Points: 330 Oct 21, 2014 · Apex, NC Matt Pierce wrote: I'm not disagreeing with you. My question was more geared toward multi-pitch - where my leader has run out a long pitch or 2 and I have long since lost sight of him. Yes we have signals and yes they work but I've often wondered what is a better solution when you clearly can not see or hear your leader. I don't use radios and am not personally a fan. If I had a partner who really wanted to use them, I would use them and I could not care less if other people use them. Just be sure you know what to do when they fail or the batteries go dead.



If on a multi-pitch and can hear your partner, great, take them off belay when they call for it.



Can't hear them but think they're off belay? The conservative answer is to keep them on belay and pay out rope until they reach the end of the line. Then they are either anchored and belaying you or you are simul-climbing. Either way, you really have no choice but to break down your anchor and climb when the rope goes (and continues to be) tight. It is usually clear whether or not your leader has you on belay.



The less conservative answer, and the option I usually choose is this: when your leader has stopped for a while and should be near the end of the pitch and has probably yelled something that you can't quite make out, pay out some slack. If you notice the rope getting pulled up pretty quickly (faster than one could probably climb)then it is likely that they are anchored and pulling up rope. At that point I usually feel pretty confident taking them off belay and when the rope hits the end I'll wait a minute to see if it goes tight, break down my anchor and begin climbing. Don't climb if the rope doesn't go up.



You can work out a series of rope tugs for signals too. 99.99% of the time, it is clear to me what is going on at the other end of the rope, but when in doubt keep them on belay until the rope goes tight, at which point you don't have a whole lot of options.



But this whole thing is not really what this accident is all about. This accident sounds like it had nothing to do with the inability to communicate. This accident sounds more like a lack of clear and proper communication in a situation where it was entirely possible. I don't use radios and am not personally a fan. If I had a partner who really wanted to use them, I would use them and I could not care less if other people use them. Just be sure you know what to do when they fail or the batteries go dead.If on a multi-pitch and can hear your partner, great, take them off belay when they call for it.Can't hear them but think they're off belay? The conservative answer is to keep them on belay and pay out rope until they reach the end of the line. Then they are either anchored and belaying you or you are simul-climbing. Either way, you really have no choice but to break down your anchor and climb when the rope goes (and continues to be) tight. It is usually clear whether or not your leader has you on belay.The less conservative answer, and the option I usually choose is this: when your leader has stopped for a while and should be near the end of the pitch and has probably yelled something that you can't quite make out, pay out some slack. If you notice the rope getting pulled up pretty quickly (faster than one could probably climb)then it is likely that they are anchored and pulling up rope. At that point I usually feel pretty confident taking them off belay and when the rope hits the end I'll wait a minute to see if it goes tight, break down my anchor and begin climbing. Don't climb if the rope doesn't go up.You can work out a series of rope tugs for signals too. 99.99% of the time, it is clear to me what is going on at the other end of the rope, but when in doubt keep them on belay until the rope goes tight, at which point you don't have a whole lot of options.But this whole thing is not really what this accident is all about. This accident sounds like it had nothing to do with the inability to communicate. This accident sounds more like a lack of clear and proper communication in a situation where it was entirely possible.

Alexey Dynkin · Joined Oct 2014 · Points: 0 Oct 21, 2014 · Boulder, CO csproul wrote: But this whole thing is not really what this accident is all about. This accident sounds like it had nothing to do with the inability to communicate. This accident sounds more like a lack of clear and proper communication in a situation where it was entirely possible. Couldn't agree more. Despite the fact that communication is often more difficult in a multi-pitch scenario, it seems that these types of accidents are more prevalent in top rope or cragging situations, probably because people tend to be much more attentive and pro-active about communication in the former. Couldn't agree more. Despite the fact that communication is often more difficult in a multi-pitch scenario, it seems that these types of accidents are more prevalent in top rope or cragging situations, probably because people tend to be much more attentive and pro-active about communication in the former.