botherkupo:

cactuartamer:

botherkupo: cactuartamer: botherkupo: cactuartamer: botherkupo: I wouldn’t normally write something like this, but I have to say that the whitewashing debate has reached the point where things are just turning ugly all around, and that seriously bothers me. It would be nice if people would stop generalising. This isn’t… I feel like I’m talking to a brick wall right now. Do you know why I made this post? Because I read a statement, of yours I might add, that essentially generalised white people as whitewashing supporters and/or culprits, who don’t give a damn about this issue, etc. Then you proceeded to make a statement that essentially trivialised the ’reverse racism’ that white people actually do face - something you have been saying people who whitewash and try to justify this are doing to people of colour (and please don’t respond with a ’how dare you put white people’s feelings with person’s of colour. Just don’t). My point is that this has escalated beyond simply ‘stop whitewashing’ - on both sides, clearly. I’m not reading every post about this issue; I don’t even want to if this is the kind of stuff I have to put up with. I will repeat again: this isn’t a debate between white people and people of colour. Artists who would consider themselves PoC have been accused of whitewashing. There are many white people who do not like whitewashing and would like to see it stopped. In short, your comment was tasteless and offensive, and it’s the kind of thing that starts racist warzone arguments. Maybe you think that’s okay; I don’t. OK, so, just for the record, you are the only one bringing up the race of the participants in this argument. I went back and read what I wrote, just to make sure, because I was surprised at this response. And, yep, turns out, I didn’t mention the race of the respective people involved in this argument even once, and the only time the word white as describing a white person in the argument even came up was me quoting one of the white washing apologists from earlier, and even then, her being white was an incidental detail unrelated to my point, which was only to demonstrate that there are people who are in fact supporting the whitewashing. (since you claimed there were not) I give absolutely no fucks whatsoever about what race any of the artists in question are. Again, I’m not the one here who brought it up. So some PoC have whitewashed? I’m sure it has happened! It’s not like there’s something about being PoC that inherently prevents someone from whitewashing art, or being a dick about it afterwards. So, you’re right this isn’t about white people vs. PoC on a basic level, it’s about people who whitewash vs. the people they are hurting by doing so. And the thing that is a distraction is you arguing against a strawman of an argument that I never made! All without really addressing the points I made about how and why your response to this whole thing was problematic. I actually wasn’t replying to you but to irresistable-revolution. Maybe it went to yours by accident. Sorry about that. In regards to your post, I didn’t respond earlier because I was in a rush and only had time to respond to the other person. Now it seems as if you deleted the original post, and I can’t remember what you said, so I can’t really respond properly now regardless. That said, I’m really not here to debate. I find it frankly disgusting there are people out there actually supporting whitewashing. You’re right that the only comments I had read were from people making justifications for why it sometimes happens by accident, or else people making the case about AtLA being a fantasy world, etc. Anyway, my issue was more with the fact that this debate seemed to be escalating on both sides, with people just getting angry and frustrated and saying things that were only going to cause more anger and frustration. Irresistable-revolutions post was really the last straw for me, which is why I made the original post. It has nothing to do with artists’ feelings or anything else - simply that I feel we, as a fandom, don’t need to resort to this kind of behaviour. It won’t solve anything except make people more divided. Ah sorry then, I was confused about that. (Although, it doesn’t seem, at least in this post here, that irresistible-revolution has brought up the respective races of the different sides either.) Also I didn’t delete my post, it’s still there (link). Just, FTR. s’fine if you don’t want to go back and respond. It was long and lord knows I understand falling behind on replies to stuff. >_< And eh. I guess we just see priorities different here. I feel like the bad-blood/divisive atmosphere enters the equation at the point where the whitewashing originally happens, so it’s unfair to make mood-maintenance the burden of the people harmed by the whitewashing, since their squee has already been harshed, as it were. It seemed to me in the recent situation that the behavior of most of the people criticizing the whitewashing was limited to pretty reasonable critiques of the fact that the picture(s) had, in fact, been whitewashed, and most of the exploding (to the very limited extent that there was exploding) happened after the point that that person drew the LOL HILARIOUS picture of blonde!Katara and offensiveStereotypeArab!Zuko. Which, was pretty obviously picking a fight so it’s kind of disingenuous to turn around and cry about the angry reaction after that point.

It wasn’t in response to her comment to my post, but in response to a post she made in the actual tag. As a NZ European who has been the victim of extremely nasty racism for most of my life (and for the simple fact that I was the only white girl around, and have the misfortune of having red hair and very, very fair skin), I did get offended by that remark (and many others which have suggested this is a white vs PoC thing and/or trivialising with flippant comments the ostracism and bigotry that white people also face). As you said, it’s not at all about what colour an artist is, but instead is about the meanings behind whitewashing, which people will either understand is hurtful and offensive or will dismiss and try to shrug off.

I can’t claim to have read all the comments made on the matter, but I do feel that people from both sides have made some pretty tactless comments. And I think you could be right that’s where our priorities begin to differ. I’m actually not saying ‘all people trying to stop whitewashing need to shut up’, nor am I saying that those trying to justify whitewashing (or what have you) get free reign to say what they like. I just know that I am personally much more inclined to listen to someone who is calm and respectful towards me (as I’m sure we all are). So, when the posts start taking on a tone aimed to antagonise, offend and divide (whether that be those trying to justify pictures that can be considered whitewashing, or whether that be those wanting to stop whitewashing), I think that’s when people need to just stop for a moment and take a breather. Otherwise, the only result is that the Zutara Tag literally turns into a warzone, and I honestly don’t believe that will help anyone.

At the end of the day, we are all here because we love Zutara. I don’t think it’s belittling people’s experiences to ask everyone to remember that when having a debate in the tag, because racism is a sensitive issue that can get ugly very fast if people don’t even try to stop it from escalating.