Roland Martin had “White Nationalist” Richard Spencer on his NewsOne Now program for a little debate and discussion. Spencer’s Nazi-friendly revisionist narrative is that America has a white European culture and that white Europeans made this country great and can do great things without people of color. Spencer’s family-friendly angle is that slavery was a terrible mistake both morally and culturally, so you see, he’s not a racist. Except, he’s a racist and his ideas are dumb and based on a racist and factually incorrect reading of the history of our country.

The interview begins with them discussing the ‘Hail’ Hitler Trump gestures seen during Spencer’s speech in D.C. a few days ago. From there Spencer and Martin talk about Christianity and the politics of Christianity. It’s early in the discussion and things are a bit over-talking and messy, but you begin to see very clearly that Spencer has a few rhetorical asides that probably work on children and Trump supporters, but don’t really pass muster with someone who knows exactly what they are talking about.

Martin and Spencer move onto how the alt-right isn’t white supremacist because they are separatists who don’t want to rule over anybody, they just don’t want to be around anybody. Martin decides to do away with the formality of letting Spencer bullshit anymore by destroying Spencer’s conceit that America was built by white Europeans. He takes Spencer to task by asking him about the cheap labor of slavery and the free labor that blacks in America provided after slavery. Spencer tries to goose step around this but Martin is relentless.

That’s when it gets good as Martin and Spencer segue into the classic racist’s chant of “affirmative action” being the root of all evils. Unfortunately for Spencer, Martin knows the history of affirmative action in our country, things like the Homestead Act and the G.I. Bill, and the fact that white women seem to have been able to benefit the most from Affirmative Action policies int he past couple of decades—compared to other groups.

Please watch the clip below. Give it a little time—it gets really great somewhere in the middle.