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Today’s episode of the Culture Creature podcast features a wide-ranging interview with punk icon Ian MacKaye. Listen to the full Ian MacKaye interview via the player above or in your podcast provider of choice. MacKaye’s eloquent metaphor for the 2016 presidential election will help you make sense of a tumultuous political year.

Ian MacKaye is a founding member of bands including Minor Threat, Fugazi, Embrace, The Evens and more. He is a co-owner of Dischord Records and a fifth-generation native of Washington D.C. In our new interview, MacKaye discusses Donald Trump, Fugazi, and more.



Ian MacKaye Interview Highlights

Ian MacKaye on the 2016 election: “I was trying to think of an illustration of how one might think about this election, or how I’ve thought about this election. I had this sort of vision of being on a boat that you have no control over – you’re just a passenger. It comes to your attention that there’s this vicious fistfight up in the helm between two people that are trying to get ahold of the steering wheel – they’re both trying to be captain. They have very different ideas about which way they want to steer, although ultimately I think both of these captains have self-serving strategies. You wake up to discover that the one who’s steering in the direction you really didn’t want to go in ended up winning the fight. But maybe something to think about is that regardless of the steering, there is a greater current at play. These people steer the boat wherever they want to go, but the current moves in a direction that is beyond their power. It might take us longer to get there, but I feel like that is a current of progression.”

Related: Hear interviews with members of Operation Ivy and Screaming Females

Ian MacKaye’s suggestions for being a force of change: “Whatever tools you have – if you’re a baker, then feed people; if you’re a musician, play music on behalf of people – whatever your discipline is, use that for good. Just do good. That’s all. That’s all I’ve ever done, though. That’s just been my work – I always just try to do well.”

Listen to the full Ian MacKaye interview on the Culture Creature podcast.