Ebony S. Muhammad (EM): With your recent messages, “What Happened to Black Manhood and Masculinity”, what sparked that subject? What was it like for you preparing and delivering that message?

Wesley Muhammad (WM): I’ll answer the last (question) first. It was difficult delivering it, and I know as I said in the first lecture, it would be difficult receiving it.

What sparked it? I cannot say, Sister Ebony, that those two lectures or my crusading on the subject, if you will, were born from any event. You cannot be a follower, in my opinion, of the Honorable Brother Minister Farrakhan; you cannot be a Muslim in the Nation Of Islam, and one not see the un-manning of the Black man in America and not feel the sense of urgency about the un-manning of the Black Man in America. So those two lectures; the issue has been an issue that I’ve spoken out against and on for the longest.

What brought those two lectures together at this time? I resist being put in the normal rotation in Mosque Maryam. I don’t want to be put in the regular rotation. I only wanted to speak when Allah gives me something and a subject in my heart to speak on. So each of the four times that I spoke, it was because Allah put those subjects on my heart to speak on. It’s just a case that the subject has been a subject that I have been fighting against for a long time.

Yes, the preparation was difficult. I knew it would be difficult to deliver, because I knew it would be received with great difficulty. Indeed it was, because of the controversy.

EM: Yes sir, thank you. That goes right into the next question. What was the feedback like, especially from other Black men?

WM: Well, the Black men loved it. The number of Black men who came to me, literally in tears, was humbling. It spoke too, by Allah’s grace, the soul of our Black males. We knew, but we could not really warn precisely or articulate precisely how the life of every single Black man in America has been. We feel the un-manning. We can’t necessarily spot or spy the methods of it, but we live it, we feel and we’re burdened by it. Therefore, to hear it articulated and the methods laid out, it brought tears to so many Black men.

There was also mixed feelings and controversy. There were Black men who were burdened and are burdened by that knowledge now, because they have to go home. The sisters received it with mixed views and reviews, especially the younger sisters.

EM: Wow…

WM: Oh absolutely. Two things a non-domesticated manhood is a threat to in American society; White men and Black women. Black women have become accustomed to domesticated Black men. That’s what most Black women have in the home, and that’s what they have been accustomed to. So when I put that out there that the Black man is to be a man first in his home and he does not ask permission from his Black woman, a lot of brothers went home and sisters was like, “Don’t bring that s___ here”. Therefore, there was some conflict, but it was necessary conflict. The terms of our arrangement up to this point must be renegotiated, and the Black woman is the critical piece to the re-manning of the Black man.

Many sisters absolutely received it, totally. Either sisters appreciate Dr. Wesley or they don’t like Dr. Wesley anymore. The reason I say it was the young sisters is because it’s this young generation of sisters who are very different. It’s really the young generation of sisters who had no vision of real Black manhood. The older generation, at least they had a vision in their mind. Masculinity was sold on television. Even if you didn’t live with it, you had Black masculinity in the media. Now, the media today, makes it total Black femininity (of the male). So the younger sisters are raised on that arch-type. They’re raised on men who are nine times out of ten, dealing with men whose emasculation is all but complete.

You have the Black matriarchy over here with the sisters and you got skinny suits over here with the brothers. Well a lot of the brothers in skinny suits, those sisters put them in skinny suits. That’s the “now” thing. You don’t see the older brothers in skinny suits. It’s the younger brothers, and it’s the younger sisters who co-signed those skinny suits.

So when the brothers go home and say, “I’m gonna get rid of this skinny suit”, the younger sisters have problems with that. So yes, there have been mixed feelings and controversy especially with the sisters. Black men reinserting themselves seems confrontational, seems arrogant, it seems all of that ugly stuff. Not that it is that, but in the Oromo tribe in East Africa, they say that a land of many hunchbacks, a straight back is ugly.

So my words are received about a Black man’s whose masculinity has been domesticated comes off as arrogant, egotistical and all of these things other than what he is trying to be – a man in a world that’s determined to un-man him.

EM: There was a Final Call tweet that quoted the Honorable Minister Louis Farrakhan stating, “There are efforts to feminize the Black male and plant seeds of homosexuality”. This tweet has three images of Black men, two of which are pro-athletes in tight fitted capri pants and loafers with no socks, and the third brother is on the runway with an actual dress on! (click below to see the full images displayed)

There are efforts to feminize Black men, and plant the seed of homosexuality https://t.co/P7GtvWdly1 #Farrakhan pic.twitter.com/SxrRgihZXD — The Final Call News (@TheFinalCall) May 28, 2016

WM: Yes ma’am, Dwayne Wade…

EM: Right! So these images gave an illustration to the words Minister Farrakhan was speaking on about the feminization of the Black man. There have been over 200 retweets and countless comments. A lot of those comments were in such opposition to the concept of Black men being feminized even with having those images. There were many comments stating that none of those men are homosexual and asking how can clothes feminize a man.

How would you respond to those comments to show and prove that feminization is taking place with that example of clothing?

WM: Absolutely, yes ma’am.

One of my objectives in the first two lectures was to help our people and the world to see that the feminization of the Black man in America is not an isolated phenomenon. It is specifically a local manifestation of a global project. This global project of un-manning the Black man, White supremacy has engaged in it all over the Earth. American media has become so savvy in creating a virtual reality for most Americans. American media has become so savvy in hiding or concealing the reality of life in America for those who living here. But outside of America things are clearer, things are more stark. Therefore, by seeing the method that White supremacy uses all over the world, we can recognize those methods here in America.

One of the methods that White supremacy uses everywhere they go to achieve the objective is there can never be two men in any town. The White man must be the only man in town. Everywhere White supremacy goes, the White male must be the only man in town. So the local males are always feminized. The local gods are feminized, and they’re put in a dress. So skinny suits, skinny jeans appeared in South Africa before they appeared in the cities in America.

EM: Interesting…

WM: Skinny jeans were imposed upon the Zulu male, because Zulu masculinity, before the rise of the Nation Of Islam, was THE number one enemy to White Supremacy. The British colonial offices stated that the Zulu is the number one obstacle to White domination in Africa. It wasn’t just Zulu military skill, it was at the root of their humiliating victory over Queen Victoria’s army. It was Zulu masculinity, because Zulu warriorhood was one part of the Zulu masculinity. Wisdom with Martial (Art) skills, masculinity, morality with integrity. It was that Zulu masculinity that the British were determined to break. They were determined to un-man the Zulu man.

One of their methods was 1) Impose an economic system that reverses the roles in the home 2) Redress the male in feminine clothing. So they imported the skinny jeans, and the ones who were caught in the skinny jeans were specifically the ones who were forced to fall victim to the new economic system, which meant they were forced into the gold and diamond mines of the British colonial capitalist system. So economic depression, role reversal in the home and redressing of the male is part of the process.

When we see an obsession with putting Black men, in particular Black men of fame, in dresses it is not an accident. Our brother, Dave Chappelle… HBO tried to assassinate his character when he walked away from $50 million. They made a concerted effort to put Black males in a dress. The dress was forced upon the Black male by the industry. In order the make the feminization of the Black male mainstream, mainstream people had to visualize it. You see it on the big screen, our heroes feminized.

Black men are being chemicalized and feminized. Who is behind this? [VIDEO] https://t.co/xZyR27xIpR #Farrakhan pic.twitter.com/J8GbnHAx8N — The Final Call News (@TheFinalCall) July 5, 2016



So now they suggest that a man wearing a dress is not necessarily a homosexual. Well that is true, but the homosexuality is one part of the process of the feminization of the Black male. White supremacy’s objective is the un-manning the Black male, the domesticating of the Black male. Homosexuality is too noble of a term (sarcasm) of what we’re really talking about which is sodomy; the nature of power politics of this society. That is part of the methods of White supremacy to dominate the Black male. White supremacy doesn’t have a need to sodomize every individual male. What they have a need of is un-manning every individual Black male.

The methods range from literal sodomizing of Black boys. For example, there was the National Institution of Health that dedicated $400,000 for a project conducted by John Hopkins University to study the satisfaction of under-aged Black boys that were being sodomized. That’s one method. The other method is putting chemicals in the water supply that literally reverses gender in levels. Other methods are making men present themselves before the world as women. That’s what we see in the tweets. When we see our men present themselves to the world as women, and we applaud it, the un-manning is successful.

EM: The comedian Dave Chappelle …

WM: Yes Dave Chappelle! That’s critical, because he blew the whistle on the conspiracy when they tried to force him to put on a dress. He said, “No”. He said that one executive after another, came in his trailer to force him to put on that dress. One of them says, “Well Dave, all of the greats have done it”. What that exec was really saying was, “All of your greats are great, because they complied with our demands to put on a dress and we allowed them to be great. If you, Dave, want to be great like them, you need to comply with this demand to put on a dress”. He would not do it.

When he first got in the industry, he didn’t know and he put on the dress. However, he said when he got in the industry and he started reflecting and seeing and putting the facts together, he said, “Oh, why are they putting all of us in a dress?” That day he stood up and resisted. The industry assassinated his character and his career. So we have a Brother Dave Chappelle, another whistle blower, if you will, on the inside the industry that lets us know that it’s a concerted effort that they dress our men of noted fame in a dress.

EM: I would like to go back to the younger Black females as well as the young Black males; if you could give more subtle ways that they are aiding in the un-manning that they can see better. I’m thinking in terms of the music and with some of the artists.

WM: The rise of the Frank Oceans…it’s not subtle when there’s not a Black reality show or any other kind of show that’s currently on television where there’s not a prominent Black flaming homosexual. There’s not one. It’s not an accident that within music there’s the embracing of gay artists. It’s not an accident, it’s not subtle. They are covert with it. They are open with it. It’s subtle if we don’t pay attention.

Nicki Minaj busted on the scene as this great lesbian except she’s not a lesbian! However, she was crafted, the artist “Nicki Minaj”, as this big promoter of homosexuality. So the industry is pushing homosexuality in our music and is pushing homosexuality in sports and entertainment. Every avenue to stomp out any vestiges of Black manhood, America is feasting. They will leave no stone unturned.

One subtle method, we spoke on last night on Sister Cassandra’s show about White supremacy. I was asked about Black boys in the public school system. I spoke on the experience of the Black boy in the public school system and the un-manning experience. The number one authority figure, for the most part, are Black females. Allah deposited the Black women with His attributes. So the Black woman, as the first teacher of the child, is qualified to teach our boys. However, that’s not what we have in the public school system. We don’t have that Black woman. We have the Black female that’s the spawn of, like we the Black male, American slavery. The Black female in American society is a Black female that was shaped by White supremacy and its agenda of un-manning the Black male. So that’s what Black boys run up against in the public school system. It’s in our Black homes.

So one asks why there are so few Black males in the public school system. Yes you hear the cries for more Black men in the school system, but not from the school systems themselves. The public school system does not accommodate the presence of Black males, and so there’s the subtle effort to maintain the public school system dominated both by White men and Black women. The two elements that are most threatened by the non-domesticated Black male. Black boys who are coming through the public school system, that’s all they have. If they don’t have strong Black male figures in their life, then not only is the public school system and pipeline to jails, it’s the pipeline to the un-manning of the Black male.

EM: My last question is: How can men honestly begin taking inventory of themselves to counter this effort against them?

WM: Black men: not only is it necessary to do an inventory of ourselves… The problem has been that we feel it, we live it but we can’t define it. We can’t visualize exactly what’s happening to us. Therefore, we have an enemy that we can’t see. We have a problem that we feel but we can’t identify. My hope is that my two lectures helped us see the enemy more clearly and see the problem more clearly. There are many ways we fall victim to this global project and not even know it.

The sagging pants: It literally signals to the White man that his boy has been or is ready to be appropriately sodomized. When a Black man is aware of the architecture of White supremacy domination of us, then we can make changes. When we know better, we can do better. Now that we know the context of the sagging pants and what it signals, now we can do better. So it’s critical for Black men to get the fuller picture of this process of our domination in order for us to be inspired to really fight it.

It is necessary for a Black man to have a genuine desire to be a man. In America, to be a real man is actually a declaration of war in American society. It will be an arduous process and we’ll make way more enemies than friends, both Black and White, both male and female. Unless our desire is very deep, Black men will not carry through with the process. We will have to fight everybody; our bosses, our mommas, our wives everybody! That’s real. Everything in this society makes a non-domesticated Black man an enemy. Most of our sisters, our mothers and our wives; they mean well. They don’t know they are a victim of this system as well. Therefore, they need to hear and know. But it starts with the Black male having the desire to be a man. When we declare that, all of the forces of this society will come against us. So our desire must be strong enough to withstand all of that.

“Every man, in order to be a man, must be a man of God or he’s not a man at all!” – The Honorable Minister Louis Farrakhan



It will make life more difficult, but once the Black man finds his self-respect he must fight like hell, anybody and everybody and everything, to preserve it. Unfortunately that first fight, most often, starts in the house. Not a physical fight, of course, but the Black woman has not been raised on that. The Black woman or Black female, the Black matriarch has to get used to non-domesticated black manhood. It’s going to be a process and it won’t be easy.

What’s critical is that when the Black man finds his self-respect, he never ever negotiates it; not with his boss, not with his wife not with his superior officer. Never negotiate a new found self-respect.

The sisters: I cannot stress this enough, there is no resurrected Black man except the Black woman is the agent of that resurrection. The Honorable Minister Louis Farrakhan said this on the Breakfast Club. A man cannot be a man without a woman. In fact he said that a man doesn’t even know that he is a man without a woman. A woman will test us, and if her heart and mind is right, she will test us in a way that will bring out the God in us. It is absolutely necessary. The Black woman is the Isis. Your Black man is the dead god, Osiris. There is no resurrection for Osiris except through Isis. Isis’ source of power is raising up her dead god, and it is through the power of her words. The Black woman’s tongue can literally bestow life on her man.

The Black woman must save her role, her critical role, her central role in the process of resurrecting the Black man.



EM: Thank you very much, Brother Wesley, for your words and for your work! May Allah continue to bless you and strengthen you.

WM: All praise is due to Allah. Thank you Sister Ebony.

Be sure to get your personal copy of Dr. Wesley’s latest publication: Understanding the Assault on The Black Man, Black Manhood and Black Masculinity.

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