In his Guardian interview, he said European leaders were realising they needed new systems of governance inside the eurozone. “It is becoming clear and obvious that this cannot sustain itself any longer between what the ins [euro users] want and the outs want and, all of a sudden, we are in the middle of a very serious debate about how you run a system when we do not need to be involved in half the things they do and want. They want deeper and closer. We don’t over here.”