[Phantom] Profile Blog Joined August 2013 Mexico 1637 Posts Last Edited: 2015-07-01 21:31:22 #1

Garden of Terror by [Phantom] and SC2John



Let the battle begin!



The Garden of Terror is one of the battlegrounds available in Heroes of the Storm . The map revolves around a night and day cycle in which players have to kill small minions called “shamblers” at night to collect seeds. When 100 seeds have been collected, a Garden Terror grows in your team’s base. The Garden Terror is a big powerful creature which you can take control of and use it to take down walls, towers, forts, and win team fights.



Overall, Garden of Terror is a very balanced and dynamic map that offers a lot of interesting strategies and lends itself to very mobile compositions, making it one of the most popular maps in competitive play.



The terror awaits heroes! Come and take its power.





Getting to Know the Map Geography Garden of Terror is a huge map that consists of three lanes with relatively windy jungle areas and quite a lot of bushes to hide in. The large size of the map and the Garden Terror mechanic make it ideal for split pushing, but team fights are also quite common due to the firepower necessary to clear the plant camps swiftly and safely. There are plenty of little nooks to hide an Abathur or a Murky egg and small corridors to retreat safely into or trap other players in. Most of the walls are very thin, allowing plenty of counterplay for jumping, dashing, blinking over the wall and back into the safety of another area or your base.



An ogre camp is featured on one side of the map with an additional ogre camp and bruiser camp on the other side of it for each team (somewhat similar to the positioning of the mercenaries on Cursed Hollow). Each mercenary camp gets its own lane, so you never have to worry about double mercenary pushes like you do on Dragon Shire, and therefore all lanes can be pushed rather equally.



When the night comes, the Shamblers will appear at both the top and bottom of the map. While the position is similar, the shamblers are a little closer to the left on the top side of the map, and to the right on the bottom. This positioning makes it so that bottom is more favorable for the red team (right side) and top is more favorable for the blue team (left side), and this is very often reflected in the metagame with three-hero lanes in the top or bottom lane to either push the lane hard and comfortably gather seeds at night or to counter the opposing team’s push and attempt to steal their “easy” camp to take. Similarly, it also affects how the mid lane rotates for seeds as well.



As opposed to in Sky Temple, where the focus is constantly on one part of the map, Garden of Terror forces teams to focus on all parts of the map due to the way the map mechanic functions and the way each side of the map is a mirror of the other.





Gathering Seeds at Nighttime The first night always begins at 1:30 into the game, when both teams are nearly level 3. When the last seed is collected night ends and the next night will fall approximately 3:30 later.



Each small shambler gives 5 seeds totaling 15 seeds per small camp, and each golem gives 60 seeds. This means that there are 90 seeds on both the top and bottom between the golem and the two small camps, and a total of 180 seeds per night. This is a lot of math, but it plays a key role in how players take the camps, as covered in the game analysis below.





Night falls once more.



Typically, both teams will take the closest or most convenient small camps on their side of the map, and then depending on where most of the team members are, they will attempt to take one of the two golems. If both teams go even on seeds the first night (two small camps and a golem each), both teams will sit at 90 seeds and neither will get a Garden Terror. Throughout the game, it is important to get as many seeds as possible, and at some points it’s even vital to steal a handful to just to prevent your opponent from getting a Garden Terror.





Controlling the Garden Terror The Garden Terror is a unique and fascinating creation by Blizzard, capable of both sieging forts and also playing a key role in team fights. It has rather high single target damage, but it does not do extra damage to structures like the Dragon Knight does; it is ideal for disrupting team fights, pushing a lane, or clearing up mercenary pushes quickly. The Garden Terror has a timer of one minute and 30 seconds and has three abilities:





Spore Queen’s Curse - After a short delay, enemy heroes in the target area are turned into plant zombies for 5 seconds. While heroes are under the effect of this spell, they move more slowly and are unable to cast any spells.



Spore Queen’s Curse is great at disabling heroes during a team fight or during a push, and probably what makes the Garden Terror so versatile. If you catch a hero in the center of the spell, the curse will actually land twice and disable them for a long time. You can place it in chokes to prevent heroes from safely travelling down corridors, use it to zone out heroes in team fights, or disabling crucial enemies to be able to turn a fight in your favor. You can also put it on top of a Plant Horror Overgrowth (which I will refer to as a “Flowerpot” for the rest of the article) and prevent a melee hero from attacking it, making the Garden Terror also strong for split pushing.



Plant Horror Overgrowth - Disables and damages all enemy structures within a large area as long as the Horror Overgrowth (“Flowerpot”) remains alive. Deals heavy damage to minions within its area of effect.





Soon the Garden Terror will be yours! Soon the Garden Terror will be yours!

Flowerpots essentially kill everything that is non-heroic. Minions are easily dispatched and towers and forts are disabled and take massive “AoE” damage. An unattended Flowerpot can nearly take down towers alone and take about one third of the health of a fort, and if the Garden Terror is nearby, it can be cast again with almost no down time. However, there’s a very easy counter to their unbelievable power: just focus down the Flowerpot and kill it. A good team that is focusing on killing the Flowerpot as quickly as possible the moment it appears will take very little siege damage from the plant aside from whatever auto attacks it uses on buildings. This creates a bit of a dance between heroes trying to snipe the Flowerpot and the Garden Terror to trying to place Spore Queen’s Curse in a way to disrupt or prevent the Flowerpots from being sniped.



Another essential use of the Garden Terror is to clear up lanes that are heavily pushing. A Garden Terror can easily make a detour and plant a single Flowerpot to demolish a knight or ogre push with a ton of minions.





Sprint - Gives the Garden Terror a short speed boost of 30% over 3 seconds.



Pretty straightforward ability. You can use it to quickly enter battle, run around the enemy team, or chase down a hero to get an extra swipe in. Sprint just gives the Garden Terror a little more mobility on a fairly large map.





Although the Garden Terror deals a good amount of damage with his auto attack, the real siege strength of the Garden Terror is in the Flowerpot. This means that it’s generally bad to suicide onto a fort in the hopes of killing it, and instead either slowly poking with your team or running around to multiple bases is more effective in terms of overall damage dealt. In fact, because the Garden Terror poses so much of a threat, it’s also quite useful as a split push tool: the Garden Terror can push the top or bottom lane, and the rest of the team can push the other side of the map, creating a difficult situation for the enemy team.



On the other hand, with Spore Queen’s Curse and high hero damage, the Garden Terror is ideal for team fights as well. Pushing with the entire team creates a formidable force that is almost guaranteed to take down a fort with good positioning. It’s quite common to see plant vs plant fights if the other team has a Garden Terror of their own, with each team dancing around and trying to pick at the enemy Terror and dodge Spore Queen’s Curse. The winner of this fight usually has an additional couple of seconds to make a push and potentially destroy a fort or some towers.





This makes it so the one who controls the Garden Terror, can have a variety of strategies available to him, and so, deciding if he stays with the team, or tries to split push while his teammates pressure another lane can make a very big difference in the amount of damage you make. Furthermore, since the Flowerpot can be destroyed, where you place it will also have a high influence on how much damage you make. Do you place it in the middle of the enemy base? Having the potential more damage because it can hit all the buildings, but the flowerpot is very vulnerable there? Or do you place it outside the gates behind the terror, where it won’t hit the fort, but will surely do damage for the entirety of its duration?





Since the enemy team is there, the Garden Terror positions the Flowerpot outside the base to guarantee it stays active as long as possible.



When someone takes control of a Garden Terror, untouched mercenary camps disappear on the map until the Garden Terror is dispatched, but camps that are already being attacked or taken when the Garden Terror spawns do not disappear. This means that it’s ideal for teams to start taking mercenary camps before the Terror spawns in order to ensure that they have additional pushing power while at the same time denying their opponents the same luxury.



Now that we have covered the basics of the map, lets make an in depth analysis. Are you ready for some amusement?



Pro-Game Analysis: SK Gaming vs. 3DMAX





Grand finals of the Go4Heroes Cup #11

Caster: Khaldor



SK Gaming Lineup: Tyrael,Tyrande, Valla, Rehgar and Illidan.



Sk Gaming chose a high mobility team composition which is good at getting map control. They only have one warrior, but with two supports and the tankiness of the Garden Terror its not necessary to have more. Rehgar and Illidan are a great combo because Reghar can give Illidan more sustain letting him deal more damage.



3DMAX: Nazeebo, Malfurion, E.T.C, Sgt. Hammer and Tassadar.



3DMAX’s composition is based on high sustained damage. Having Sgt. Hammer on the team makes it difficult for the enemy to get close to Nazeebo and stun her without receiving lots of damage, and the heroic ability of E.T.C can be devastating with this comp. Tassadar gives them an good all around hero that also provides vision on the big jungle areas at the center of the map.





The game starts with lots of action. Both teams chose to have a 1-1-3 lane distribution, to be able to either push hard or kill an out of position hero, but when 3DMAX started to siege the top lane, SK Gaming rapidly rotated to defend, attempting to wrap around, using their high mobility and long range attacks, they netted two kills. This was a very important decision and it shows that map awareness on this map is crucial due to all the jungle areas on it.



A few seconds later, and after securing their 3rd kill, SK gaming started to collect seeds on both the top and bottom of the map just as night started. Thanks to those kills, they were able to rapidly secure 60 seeds while 3DMAX could collect none., This is the true power of killing enemies early on in the game: Not from the experience, not from the respawn timers themselves, but from what you can manage to do with the time the enemy is disabled, in this case, gaining a considerable lead in seeds . 3DMAX couldn't commit to a fight or take more risks because they would just fall further behind, so what they did was not rush for the Garden Golems, but instead calmly try to gain control of the lanes, which their composition is good at, and wait for SK gaming to start killing a golem, so they can seize the opposite golem at the same time.





Neither team wants to miss out on lane experience, so only two heroes from each team start to take their respective golem.



SK Gaming however manages to get a Garden Terror, but before summoning it, the team made sure to start killing a bruiser camp, this is because, as we previously mentioned, the mercenary camps disappear once the Garden Terror is summoned by a player unless there is already someone fighting them. This gave them the ability to split push and force the enemy to react or suffer more damage on different lanes. Little details like this can mark the difference between a win or a loss in the long run, so they shouldn’t be overlooked.



As an experienced reader might notice, neither team rushes to the center of the map, a common strategy on the ladder, instead, while the Garden Terror is pushing mid lane, and forcing 2 people to defend against it, the rest of the team presses bottom lane. This is because SK gaming has a strong mercenary push going and also wish to suck the experience from the third lane. A split push is very powerful in this kind of situations, and so, SK managed to destroy a fort, a gain a level advantage, level 10 to 9, and gain access to their heroic abilities. After that, they pushed a little more and destroyed the two towers and the gate that guards the bottom keep, and then, not seeking to overextend retreated back all the way to the top lane. Once there, they focused and kill Sgt. Hammer, initiating a team fight, but thanks to a quick reaction on the part of 3DMAX, Illidan was taken down and both teams retreat.



There isn’t too much down time between when a Garden Terror dies and nightfall, but capturing mercenaries at this point like 3DMAX is did is a good idea because they can deal a good amount of damage while the enemy team is gathering seeds.



After each team took one side of the map, both teams end up having a Garden Terror. The teams are now confronted with a decision, either start an epic battle between the two, or to have each of them push a different lane. Because 3DMAX managed to kill Rehgar, they chose to start sieging middle lane, while SK chose to defend. Notice the position of the Flower pot.



Both teams needed to be careful. A lot of players would just go in head first, but if you or most of your team gets taken out, that means you would have just wasted your Terror, while the enemy will still have theirs, and your base is left vulnerable. Another thing to note is that the players controlling the terrors should also position the Spore Queen’s Curse carefully, as it can easily swing the fight in their favor.





Even though 3DMAX is pushing, both teams are being really careful not to overextend and lose the teamfight.



While 3DMAX is taking a Siege camp, SK gaming decides to ambush them, prompting an interesting fight. This is 3DMAX seeing an opportunity to destroy their opponents and seizing it. First, they waited for Hammer to arrive,as to avoid a 4 vs 5, and once she arrived, they got into position to deploy their heroic abilities. However, in an incredible example of coordination and skill, SK Gaming managed to instantly disrupt 2 of the ultimates and turn what in a normal pub game would have been a massacre, into a pretty even fight where both teams ended up with only one person down.



In the following fights, notice how SK Gaming focus Hammer, which is the main damage dealer of 3DMAX, and then, thanks to the 4 blood for blood talents their team has available, they can burst down both E.T.C and Malfurion. When SK gaming grows a new Garden Terror, you can see how he briefly moves to the top lane to plant a flowerpot, denying the mercenary push, and then moves back to mid lane.



The nights pass, and the teams keep following the general rules: Don’t overextend, play defensively, and if its a plant vs plant situation, try to deal the most damage you can without risking putting your team at a disadvantage. However, when 3DMAX wins two big team fights at the twenty minute mark, they manage to get the engagement they needed, and successfully take the two Golems, getting slightly ahead and almost getting two terrors.



Then, 3DMAX deiced it was time to finish the game and push the enemy’s core, but SK reacted appropriately and managed to kill 4 of them. Unfortunately for them, 3 of their members were also taken down and they took a lot of damage to the core thanks to a siege camp. Night falls once more and the shamblers rise again, but despite SK best efforts, 3DMAX manage to get another terror. At this point, with their core at 56% SK gaming makes the only choice they can, they decide to try to finish the game even down a terror but up two heroes on their opponents.



SK Gaming pushes, managing to take down a keep and start attacking the core, but when Valla dies and Sgt. Hammer respawns they are forced to retreat, and make one last desperate stand in the middle of the map. After the dust settles, SK Gaming has lost, 3DMAX pushes with the Garden Terror and the core falls, 3DMAX emerging victorious at the 32 minute mark.





Conclusion The Garden of Terror is one of the most balanced maps, and the fact that the map objective is controllable, and more versatile than others like the Dragon Knight, ultimately opens up more opportunities to display skill and strategy. It has some problems, one of them being that games on this map tend to last longer, but at the end of the day, it’s a very interesting map.

Writer TeamLiquid Staff writer since 2014 @Mortal_Phantom

Garsecg Profile Joined September 2014 United States 129 Posts #2 Great article, and great play-by-play commentary! Was an awesome read, it's obvious you guys put a lot of work into it. Great stuff!

ACrow Profile Joined October 2011 Germany 6578 Posts #3 Thank you very much, well written article!

I especially liked the game analysis, more please <3 Get off my lawn, young punks

xDaunt Profile Joined March 2010 United States 17732 Posts #4 A few tips:



1) Prioritize seed collection over mercs at all times. Late game, seed-starving your opponent is critical given how strong the terror becomes. The only time you don't want to be collecting seeds is if you have a guaranteed way to end the game following a teamfight.



2) Be mindful of who should be using the terror. In order of importance, the following should NOT grab the terror: healers, high DPS / ranged DPS, and tanks. The best players to grab it are off-tanks and utility heroes.



3) If using the terror, do NOT wander around and attack the enemy base by yourself. Get your team to support you, and then go in and attack. The terror is stupidly strong in teamfights because of its Q and high damage. Good terror players can easily carry teamfights. Unless there are special circumstances dictating otherwise, do not split push or use the terror guerrilla-style to drop pots in bases.



4) Before grabbing a terror, your team should actively start taking merc camps. More importantly, pay very close attention to your minimap when either your team or the enemy team takes a terror. If an unseized merc camp does not immediately disappear, that means that someone is trying to take it. These are free opportunities to ambush the enemy team (or be ambushed).

[Phantom] Profile Blog Joined August 2013 Mexico 1637 Posts Last Edited: 2015-02-25 19:06:58 #5 Glad you guys liked it. This time we made it a little different by mergin the map strategy section with the pro game analisys. We also tried to achieve a balance between article lenght and ammount of info displayed. We explained important strategy decsitions and pointed out things that could be easily missed while watching the game but are incredibly important, like the positioning of the flower pot. I think we achieved a good balance but let us know any feedback you have.



Also make sure to check out our blackhearts guide if you havent already. You can find it on this subforum.



Good advice, xdaunt, also a general tips section would be great for future articles. Altough the only thing i would argue is that split pushing is good sometimes and it happens more than what you appear to suggest, especially on the first terror pre lvl 10. But for example on solo queue where people rush as five to defend the terror if you rush with it head first alone you wont be able to do much. So it depends. Writer TeamLiquid Staff writer since 2014 @Mortal_Phantom

Holloworb Profile Joined November 2011 Norway 342 Posts #6 Not able to watch video where im at now, but great article

sushiko Profile Joined June 2010 183 Posts #7 On February 26 2015 02:25 xDaunt wrote:

A few tips:



1) Prioritize seed collection over mercs at all times. Late game, seed-starving your opponent is critical given how strong the terror becomes. The only time you don't want to be collecting seeds is if you have a guaranteed way to end the game following a teamfight.



2) Be mindful of who should be using the terror. In order of importance, the following should NOT grab the terror: healers, high DPS / ranged DPS, and tanks. The best players to grab it are off-tanks and utility heroes.



3) If using the terror, do NOT wander around and attack the enemy base by yourself. Get your team to support you, and then go in and attack. The terror is stupidly strong in teamfights because of its Q and high damage. Good terror players can easily carry teamfights. Unless there are special circumstances dictating otherwise, do not split push or use the terror guerrilla-style to drop pots in bases.



4) Before grabbing a terror, your team should actively start taking merc camps. More importantly, pay very close attention to your minimap when either your team or the enemy team takes a terror. If an unseized merc camp does not immediately disappear, that means that someone is trying to take it. These are free opportunities to ambush the enemy team (or be ambushed).



I wish more players would realize your 3rd point... on dragon shire and garden terror, players always seem to think the maximum damage is done by straight rushing solo into their tower/forts without any backup. Garden terror definitely has the ability to split push, but against any decent player those guerilla pots get taken out so quickly.



Also, if you grab the terror, Sprint immediately! It seems so obvious but sometimes I notice players just not using it at all...

I wish more players would realize your 3rd point... on dragon shire and garden terror, players always seem to think the maximum damage is done by straight rushing solo into their tower/forts without any backup. Garden terror definitely has the ability to split push, but against any decent player those guerilla pots get taken out so quickly.Also, if you grab the terror, Sprint immediately! It seems so obvious but sometimes I notice players just not using it at all...

Lefiathen Profile Joined December 2011 70 Posts Last Edited: 2015-02-25 22:11:15 #8 Garden of terror is a great map, at first i didnt like it cause it felt like a worse dragon shire, but now i think its one of the best maps with a lot of strategy and depth.

ForTehDarkseid Profile Joined April 2013 2623 Posts #9 TLDR: is the competetive experience comparable to LoL or Dota? I think their strategy is to dumpster bad Western teams (c) uriel

NonY Profile Blog Joined June 2007 8352 Posts #10 On February 26 2015 08:43 ForTehDarkseid wrote:

TLDR: is the competetive experience comparable to LoL or Dota?

Should have read at least the title. This is a guide for one of the maps, not an answer to your question! If by competitive experience you mean the pro scene, then it's understandably underdeveloped compared to those two juggernauts. But if you mean personally, then it is comparable in the sense that there is a ton to learn about each hero, a ton to learn about team strategy, and high enough mechanics skill cap that the best players aren't playing perfectly all the time. Should have read at least the title. This is a guide for one of the maps, not an answer to your question! If by competitive experience you mean the pro scene, then it's understandably underdeveloped compared to those two juggernauts. But if you mean personally, then it is comparable in the sense that there is a ton to learn about each hero, a ton to learn about team strategy, and high enough mechanics skill cap that the best players aren't playing perfectly all the time. "Fucking up is part of it. If you can't fail, you have to always win. And I don't think you can always win." Elliott Smith ---------- Yet no sudden rage darkened his face, and his eyes were calm as they studied her. Then he smiled. 'Witness.'

GMarshal Profile Blog Joined March 2010 United States 21994 Posts #11 On February 26 2015 08:43 ForTehDarkseid wrote:

TLDR: is the competetive experience comparable to LoL or Dota?

To reinforce what NonY said, on a personal level, the game has many different levels of individual skill. For one thing, the flow of the game is surprisingly hard to grasp. On another hand, positioning is tricky. Oh and timing. Basically there;s a lot of non-obvious things that require practice and experience and skill to be good at.



For example, there's someone (me), who really likes ganking as zeratul, and finds himself out of position all the time, much to the chagrin of anyone playing with him. Yet much better players make it work. The difference? Skill and practice.



This is definitely a game where the difference between a pro and a non-pro is very visible, in outcomes at least. To reinforce what NonY said, on a personal level, the game has many different levels of individual skill. For one thing, the flow of the game is surprisingly hard to grasp. On another hand, positioning is tricky. Oh and timing. Basically there;s a lot of non-obvious things that require practice and experience and skill to be good at.For example, there's someone (me), who really likes ganking as zeratul, and finds himself out of position all the time, much to the chagrin of anyone playing with him. Yet much better players make it work. The difference? Skill and practice.This is definitely a game where the difference between a pro and a non-pro is very visible, in outcomes at least. Moderator "life of lively to live to life of full life thx to shield battery" The measure of a terrible day is when you go to bed thinking "man, I wish the zombie apocalypse would start already"

[Phantom] Profile Blog Joined August 2013 Mexico 1637 Posts Last Edited: 2015-02-26 13:07:15 #12 I agree with GMarshal, the gameflow is surprisingly difficult to graso, and the game is full of different not so obvious things that distinguish an advanced player from a New one. thats why it is also very important to watch the game a lot. Writer TeamLiquid Staff writer since 2014 @Mortal_Phantom

Corgi Profile Joined December 2014 United States 23 Posts Last Edited: 2015-02-26 13:36:14 #13 On February 26 2015 08:43 ForTehDarkseid wrote:

TLDR: is the competetive experience comparable to LoL or Dota?



Yes and not really. Yes its a team game. Yes team coordination is supremely important in all three games. Some might argue HOTS emphasizes coordination more than the other two. I once felt that way too, but that changed once I realized its just designed that way at the lower skill level as well as the high skill level. LoL and Dota both emphasize team cooperation at the high skill level. But at the lower skill level you can 'carry' your team unlike in HOTS, where you cannot carry your team due to design. So coordination/cooperation is equal in all three games.



All the stuff about gameflow, timing, details, its not that complicated in this game. Those are the things you have issues with when you're new to this game. All the semi-pros and pro teams don't have an issue with understanding those things. The problem is that the game doesn't teach you anything about when to soak, when to fight, when to get merc camps. A lot of people develop bad habits before they learn how the game is supposed to be played. All I can say is that unless you're playing in Hero League, I would not take any quick match game seriously because the disparity of experience there is anywhere from just started to rank 1 players trying to grind xp.



What about mechanics? All have the same base stuff. Need to be precise with your skill usage. Need to position correctly. Need to rotate/gank/control the map. What HOTS doesn't have is things like getting items to more finely tune how you are responding to the enemy team. It also lacks more in depth mechanics like last hitting/denying that Dota 2 has. Nor does it have the varying meta that Dota 2 might have. Or the win more effects that multiple Dragons might bestow in League. Or the jungling mechanics of Dota or League. So in this sense HOTS is a much more simplfied game. This is of course by design. The game wants people to get into the fight, start fighting each other at the first minute, and start team fights by the second. This is not to say teams don't 5v5 in Dota 2 before the timer even starts however.



Is the ladder on par? No. Matchmaking is a joke right now. At rank 1 or rank 40, you can be matched with the the more extreme of ranked players. This happens every game. Yes I am checking people's Hero League ranks. Its basically trying to balance the MM by people's ranks on both sides. This means a rank 1 might have a rank 40, but the other team might be full of rank 20s. Kind of like how Dota 2's MM works right now past 5600 mmr. It does not have tiers like League. So yes the MM is broken. Does rank even matter though? No. That's also a problem with the ranking system. Also, if you're really good at this game, the ranks don't really matter because like I said earlier, you cannot carry the team by yourself unlike in Dota with the correct strategy and picks.



What about the game itself? Comeback system? Leveling? Scaling? Well basically it has a comeback system but the snowball effect is much greater. If a team doesn't die to a 2-3 level disparity, they will eventually even out around level 20-22. So turtling = comeback sort of. The problem here is turtling = loss of map control in HOTS which means you're being pushed in all lanes all the time. Every single map has a mechanic that allows you to heavily push a lane if you have map control, not to mention losing Keeps = even more push down a lane. This results in games lost as soon as you have a 3 level disadvantage and even 2 levels is a big deal in any teamfight. This is different from Dota (multiple comeback mechanics) and League (where gold lead basically determines outcomes of many games).



What about balance? And talents? The balance of this game is still in the works. Every patch sees a ton of STEALTH nerfs to heroes and those notes dont show up in the official patch notes. I have no idea why Blizzard isn't transparent but ultimately not every hero getting buffed/nerfed needs it. To put it simply, I believe their balance team isn't quite up to speed with what's going on but everyone is praying they have a bigger goal and are simply inching their way towards it. For example, Murky was recently nerfed when he's already having problems being played. Abathur was also nerfed and he went from a potential pick to nobody wants to play him anymore. Talents? This game has a bunch of generic talents. These generic talents are like things that either support the team or augment your hero like "Blink" skill (Flash in league). Its still very debatable whether these skills should even be in the game as they are basically generic talents that earlier were filler talents really. Its also extremely hard to balance around these talents: Rewind was removed from many heroes and placed at level 20. Resurgence was removed from the game completely last major patch. Makes you question whether this game is balanced enough for serious competitive play. Also position wise, Stitches is hands down the best tank out there bar none and it really makes it difficult to seriously consider competitive play when one team has him and the other team has to chose something that's not stitches. Pair this with the fact teamcomps require a tank and healer, with two dps...you don't get a lot of variation strategy wise.



Some positives though: There are a bunch of maps with more to come. The only drawback there is that some maps are way more snowball than others which means if a team has an advantage, the other team is screwed. Another positive is the 20-25m game time it takes to play a round. This will mean you can play Bo5 easily in HOTS competitively with multiple maps and bans which makes it better as a spectator sport in those aspects. Also, even though its simplification of the ARTS, it has enough there (skill shots, gameplay, strategy, etc) to be a competitive game. Is the skill ceiling high enough? Who cares. Hearthstone's skill ceiling isn't extremely high and its successful enough as an esport. This game's skill ceiling isn't particularly high either but skill ceiling isn't what makes a game competitive or a sport.



So if you're wondering if right now HOTS is stacking up well as a competitive game compared to Dota and League? The real answer is no. But it has potential. Can Blizzard reach it? Well a lot of evidence so far says no unfortunately but luckily we're still in beta so everything can be excused as just testing different things. Now just because a game isn't as deep or complex or mechanically challenging as the other games doesn't mean it won't become an esport or be fun as a competitive game at any level. It's just not at the other two game's level, which is the comparison we're drawing here to answer your question. Yes and not really. Yes its a team game. Yes team coordination is supremely important in all three games. Some might argue HOTS emphasizes coordination more than the other two. I once felt that way too, but that changed once I realized its just designed that way at the lower skill level as well as the high skill level. LoL and Dota both emphasize team cooperation at the high skill level. But at the lower skill level you can 'carry' your team unlike in HOTS, where you cannot carry your team due to design. So coordination/cooperation is equal in all three games.All the stuff about gameflow, timing, details, its not that complicated in this game. Those are the things you have issues with when you're new to this game. All the semi-pros and pro teams don't have an issue with understanding those things. The problem is that the game doesn't teach you anything about when to soak, when to fight, when to get merc camps. A lot of people develop bad habits before they learn how the game is supposed to be played. All I can say is that unless you're playing in Hero League, I would not take any quick match game seriously because the disparity of experience there is anywhere from just started to rank 1 players trying to grind xp.What about mechanics? All have the same base stuff. Need to be precise with your skill usage. Need to position correctly. Need to rotate/gank/control the map. What HOTS doesn't have is things like getting items to more finely tune how you are responding to the enemy team. It also lacks more in depth mechanics like last hitting/denying that Dota 2 has. Nor does it have the varying meta that Dota 2 might have. Or the win more effects that multiple Dragons might bestow in League. Or the jungling mechanics of Dota or League. So in this sense HOTS is a much more simplfied game. This is of course by design. The game wants people to get into the fight, start fighting each other at the first minute, and start team fights by the second. This is not to say teams don't 5v5 in Dota 2 before the timer even starts however.Is the ladder on par? No. Matchmaking is a joke right now. At rank 1 or rank 40, you can be matched with the the more extreme of ranked players. This happens every game. Yes I am checking people's Hero League ranks. Its basically trying to balance the MM by people's ranks on both sides. This means a rank 1 might have a rank 40, but the other team might be full of rank 20s. Kind of like how Dota 2's MM works right now past 5600 mmr. It does not have tiers like League. So yes the MM is broken. Does rank even matter though? No. That's also a problem with the ranking system. Also, if you're really good at this game, the ranks don't really matter because like I said earlier, you cannot carry the team by yourself unlike in Dota with the correct strategy and picks.What about the game itself? Comeback system? Leveling? Scaling? Well basically it has a comeback system but the snowball effect is much greater. If a team doesn't die to a 2-3 level disparity, they will eventually even out around level 20-22. So turtling = comeback sort of. The problem here is turtling = loss of map control in HOTS which means you're being pushed in all lanes all the time. Every single map has a mechanic that allows you to heavily push a lane if you have map control, not to mention losing Keeps = even more push down a lane. This results in games lost as soon as you have a 3 level disadvantage and even 2 levels is a big deal in any teamfight. This is different from Dota (multiple comeback mechanics) and League (where gold lead basically determines outcomes of many games).What about balance? And talents? The balance of this game is still in the works. Every patch sees a ton of STEALTH nerfs to heroes and those notes dont show up in the official patch notes. I have no idea why Blizzard isn't transparent but ultimately not every hero getting buffed/nerfed needs it. To put it simply, I believe their balance team isn't quite up to speed with what's going on but everyone is praying they have a bigger goal and are simply inching their way towards it. For example, Murky was recently nerfed when he's already having problems being played. Abathur was also nerfed and he went from a potential pick to nobody wants to play him anymore. Talents? This game has a bunch of generic talents. These generic talents are like things that either support the team or augment your hero like "Blink" skill (Flash in league). Its still very debatable whether these skills should even be in the game as they are basically generic talents that earlier were filler talents really. Its also extremely hard to balance around these talents: Rewind was removed from many heroes and placed at level 20. Resurgence was removed from the game completely last major patch. Makes you question whether this game is balanced enough for serious competitive play. Also position wise, Stitches is hands down the best tank out there bar none and it really makes it difficult to seriously consider competitive play when one team has him and the other team has to chose something that's not stitches. Pair this with the fact teamcomps require a tank and healer, with two dps...you don't get a lot of variation strategy wise.Some positives though: There are a bunch of maps with more to come. The only drawback there is that some maps are way more snowball than others which means if a team has an advantage, the other team is screwed. Another positive is the 20-25m game time it takes to play a round. This will mean you can play Bo5 easily in HOTS competitively with multiple maps and bans which makes it better as a spectator sport in those aspects. Also, even though its simplification of the ARTS, it has enough there (skill shots, gameplay, strategy, etc) to be a competitive game. Is the skill ceiling high enough? Who cares. Hearthstone's skill ceiling isn't extremely high and its successful enough as an esport. This game's skill ceiling isn't particularly high either but skill ceiling isn't what makes a game competitive or a sport.So if you're wondering if right now HOTS is stacking up well as a competitive game compared to Dota and League? The real answer is no. But it has potential. Can Blizzard reach it? Well a lot of evidence so far says no unfortunately but luckily we're still in beta so everything can be excused as just testing different things. Now just because a game isn't as deep or complex or mechanically challenging as the other games doesn't mean it won't become an esport or be fun as a competitive game at any level. It's just not at the other two game's level, which is the comparison we're drawing here to answer your question.

Wildmoon Profile Joined December 2011 Thailand 4153 Posts Last Edited: 2015-02-26 14:22:47 #14 On February 26 2015 08:43 ForTehDarkseid wrote:

TLDR: is the competetive experience comparable to LoL or Dota?



Obviously the scene is not that big. On personal level, HotS doesn't seem to offer less strategy that the games above but just different kinds. HotS has something Dota and LoL don't and the same goes for the opposite.



On mechanical skill I have never found this type of game to be any difficult mechanic wise so there's hardly much different in mechanical skill between these games imo. On high level play mechanical skill is often than not insignificant in these games compared to something like StarCraft or even WC3.



Matches could end quite fast in HotS and it's quite easy to make a comeback.

Obviously the scene is not that big. On personal level, HotS doesn't seem to offer less strategy that the games above but just different kinds. HotS has something Dota and LoL don't and the same goes for the opposite.On mechanical skill I have never found this type of game to be any difficult mechanic wise so there's hardly much different in mechanical skill between these games imo. On high level play mechanical skill is often than not insignificant in these games compared to something like StarCraft or even WC3.Matches could end quite fast in HotS and it's quite easy to make a comeback.

Garsecg Profile Joined September 2014 United States 129 Posts Last Edited: 2015-02-26 18:19:03 #15 Just played a game on this map and won the game using the terror.



Had I NOT read the guide, I probably would have taken the terror to the enemy base, started wrecking buildings, and I'm sure things would have went okay. Instead, what happened was this.



I was already running down the middle of the map and had a clear shot to their base. But then one of our teammates saw their team fighting the terror above the mid-lane... so I sprinted up there and started wailing on them. 2 Terror hits = over 1k damage, and between me and our team, we got two of them. Polymorph plus the Terror's speed wrecked them.



We chased them back to their base, eventually ending up pushing on their core and winning. Using the Terror to kill enemy heroes is no joke. If I'd used the terror to fight buildings, we would not have won as easily or as convincingly as we did.



The best part was at the beginning, some guy said something like "what the hell are you doing with the terror noob!!?". At the end, I kind of lost my cool after the fourth enemy hero that I got with the terror and typed out "That's how you terror son!" and he said "nvm".



Before reading this guide, I would have been that guy, and I would have been shocked at how well the terror kills the enemy team.

[Phantom] Profile Blog Joined August 2013 Mexico 1637 Posts #16 Withouth knowing the specifics of that match, on glad you was able to use the terror effectively and learn something new.



I at first also thought fighting with the terror was stupid, but then I I found out that the damage he does is no joke. Although not always is good to fight him him, it depends a lot on the game. But I'm glad you were able to use it effectively and that this guide was useful for you :D Writer TeamLiquid Staff writer since 2014 @Mortal_Phantom

Wuster Profile Joined May 2011 1974 Posts #17 I always fight with the Terror. I try to zone hero out with seeds and the terror's high auto-attack damage. I didn't really attack buildings because I assume the flowerpot would take care of them all (at least if I can chain-channel them). So I always thought the Terror was for baby-sitting the pot. I need to work on rotating to other forts when one is too well defended when split pushing though. All to easy to lose the flowerpot despite your best effort then take a ton of damage from cannons.



Now I do something similar with the DK, but I just learned today (this guide and Into the Nexus) that the DK does bonus damage to buildings... so I'll start playing that guy better now lol.

Random_0 Profile Blog Joined August 2008 United States 1158 Posts #18 Does the Garden Terror get stronger as the game goes on? It seems like it must, or else higher level heroes would do more damage more quickly and focus it down in no time.



How much stronger does it get?

Holdenintherye Profile Joined December 2012 Canada 1437 Posts #19 On March 04 2015 15:52 Random_0 wrote:

Does the Garden Terror get stronger as the game goes on? It seems like it must, or else higher level heroes would do more damage more quickly and focus it down in no time.



How much stronger does it get?

Pretty sure the terror, dragon, and skull golem all scale based on average of the teams' levels Pretty sure the terror, dragon, and skull golem all scale based on average of the teams' levels

[Phantom] Profile Blog Joined August 2013 Mexico 1637 Posts Last Edited: 2015-03-04 22:37:04 #20 Hmm well as a few tips, always read what their abilities do. The + damage to buildings on the DK can be found if you move the mouse over his trait.



Everything scales with the lvl, you can look for the exact values of the skull golem in data mines ahli made (just google it). With the dk and garden is a little easier. Just press c. Usually I usually c displays your stats, but if you are controlling the garden terror or the dk it will show all their stats, including how much damage they do Writer TeamLiquid Staff writer since 2014 @Mortal_Phantom

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