Tim Palmer reported this story on Monday, December 7, 2015 18:15:00

TIM PALMER: In the past 20 years the number of high school students pursuing maths at more than the basic level has dropped by a third - those doing science to year 12 down by 20 per cent.



And a third of secondary teachers teaching maths have no tertiary training in mathematics.



It's a similar story at university, where the number of students pursuing sciences is in decline - yet today's innovation package points out that 75 per cent of jobs in the fastest growing industries need graduates skilled in science technology, engineering and maths.



The package does direct tens of millions towards fostering students and teachers in these fields, but is it enough for Australia produce the people to support the Prime Minister's vision?



Professor Ian Chubb is Australia's Chief Scientist. I asked him if an innovative country was the object, what kind of education the people who lived there would have.



IAN CHUBB: You need an education system that encourages curiosity, opens minds to ideas, identifies how people can assimilate knowledge from multiple areas and put it together to turn it into something that other people want - a new (inaudible) or a new service and put it into the market place.



But basically it's about encouraging curiosity and creativity.



TIM PALMER: In terms of the backbone of that though, the science, technology and maths education - are you happy that we are in a country where the national curriculum doesn't entail secondary students learning about the atom until year nine?



IAN CHUBB: Well I think that one of the things that we have to do is we have to do a rethink of how all of that comes together in the light of the present context, and that's changed of course since in the relatively short time that the national curriculum has been established.



But it's also about how it's taught, so I can imagine that you might get to the atom in year nine, but you're inspired to learn about the atom by what you've done in years one to nine then you'll take to it with alacrity.



TIM PALMER: It's hardly surprising is it when you see figures such as with maths teachers, that in early and intermediate high school maths teachers, around a third of them didn't study maths at all in their teacher training or in university.



That must alarm you, does it?



IAN CHUBB: Yeah well it does, it's not good enough. I'm a bit of a fan of the New South Wales approach, setting a high standard for entry into pre-service teacher education courses, but alternative pathways for those who were disadvantaged either through where they lived in Australia I mean the further you get away from the GPO, the more difficult it becomes.



So you need alternative pathways but at least you've got a set of high standards for entry.



TIM PALMER: The number of students taking intermediate and advanced maths in Australia has fallen by a third in two decades. Similar figures in science.



How do you arrest that slide, how do you get that curiosity to remain through secondary school and into university?



IAN CHUBB: Well I think you teach - I basically think you teach it, with respect to science particularly, teach it how it is practised. You think about the evidence that is available, you construct a hypothesis, you design an experiment to test it.



You learn a lot from the ones that work and you learn at least as much from the ones that don't, and then once you've done your experiment you've got time to sit back and reflect on it as you design the next one. And we don't allow enough time for that.



TIM PALMER: Another statistic - not in the report but should worry some students I should imagine - is that 30 per cent of current jobs will be replaced by robots or robotics inside of the next decade.



Has the message got through to students that it might be better to learn to make a robot or program a robot than to be replaced by one?



IAN CHUBB: Well I think today's statement is a big step in the right direction because it means that the Government has put some action behind the rhetorical commitment that was often seen over the years on a variety of matters.



There is another report to quote reports that says something like your average school leader this year will have something like 15 different jobs during their working life.



TIM PALMER: Today's package, obviously there are some incentives there that are aimed there to stimulate the kind of curiosity amongst younger students, older students.



There's not so much there in terms of the issue of teacher competence. Do you think it goes far enough to provide the number of students in STEM fields that are going to be needed by this new innovative economy?



IAN CHUBB: Well there are steps being taken in other parts of government. So for example Christopher Pyne, when he was education minister, got his ministerial colleagues to agree to a national STEM policy for schools, at least a proposal to come back to a later ministerial council meeting.



I understand that that council meeting is due in a couple of weeks and I've seen a draft of the policy that will be going to that ministerial council and I think it's a very big step forward. So it's not captured by today's specifics, but it's within the context of today's specifics will begin to be implemented.



TIM PALMER: That was Australia’s Chief Scientist, Professor Ian Chubb.