fruipit:

zenithfrozen:

Ok so I didn’t exactly know how to title this and give the tone that I’m gonna write this with, but whatever. I wanted to give my opinion on this subject in the future, but given the recent events with GLAAD and the trend of the topic, I feel this is the time to speak. Now I know people is gonna be offended by this, personally I am not homophobic, I could care less what kind of genitals you are into but let’s be honest people find anything to be offended nowadays, I hope however that the point is understood as a matter that has nothing to do with denying a sexuality.



There’s a lot I want to say here so this is actually rather long. If it seems I’m pissed off it’s because hell yeah I’m pissed off about all this absurdity. So why do I think this is a horrible idea? and why do I say that this would effectively ruin Elsa?. Well let’s start with a clear fact, telling an artist to do something on their artwork because you want it is always a big no. Frozen is an artwork, as a movie, as a fiction story, no matter how commercial it is and that’s why we loved it on the first place. Fiction is one of the art forms that suffers the most from letting the will of the author slip away, we can’t ask that for Frozen.



Frozen needs to keep it’s artistic integrity. No, I’m not saying that it would lose artistic integrity due “having gay people on it”, no, it would lose it’s artistic integrity by turning into a form of activism tool in order to pander a group that apparently doesn’t even care for it’s art root. The nature of the movie is in the storytelling, the craft of a world and characters that we love, not in the intention of portraying “a first something” to appease a group of people.



This way Frozen shouldn’t turn into a tool to serve an agenda, no matter how good the intentions of said agenda are. Frozen will be best by being “Frozen”, by being a medium to deliver a social project. And yes, right now Frozen, Elsa , LiG has become a symbol of liberation that has been used by the LGBT community as well as many others, and that’s great, it’s great Frozen helps people but that’s the nature of the story it doesn’t meant it was written and evolved specifically for that , it doesn’t mean the story was planned with the purpose of activism which is what is being asked now.



I do not believe on this whole representation deal. I respect that some do believe and want that but I consider it bullshit. My entire life I do not recall knowing any character physically, etc… “like me” , for many reasons that I will not disclose, despite my love for fiction in all forms. That however did not stop me from relating to so many awesome characters that perhaps at first sight are nothing like me. I’ve related to blacks, whites, asians, latinos, a plethora of sexualities, females, robots even animals. That’s because we shouldn’t care about the fact that “they look like me” or “they like the same gender as I do”, no, a character is not great because of that stuff, and it’s silly to pretend that sharing such superficial trait should make it important to us. A character is great and we relate because of the characters motivations, actions, personality , values etc… I mean isn’t that why we’re fighting against discrimination on the first place? to see the entire world by those traits? then why is it that we’re fighting for more characters to be written superficially like us instead of demanding characters to be WELL written, period?.



I’d like to take the example of Chadwick Boseman. When asked how he felt playing a black superhero that black kids could look up to, he responded that it was great and all but he hoped that kids from all ethnicities could see themselves and learn from the character. That’s what we should aspire to.



Let’s be realistic here, the intention of Frozen creators was never to make Elsa “secretly gay” “under the nose of Disney”, do you really think the writers for this WDAS movie had that in mind at the hour of creating the character? before the premier Jen Lee even tweeted how good Elsa and Ralph would look together and an animator made a wedding for them. Frozen was also not meant to have a sequel at the beginning since WDAS doesn’t do sequels and Frozen was considered a Tangled-like success at best, leaving no room for a planned future development on that direction. So yes, Elsa appearing attracted to women on the sequel would indeed be “making her” or “turning her” into a lesbian. We all know, we all can guess and see that the intention behind of such action would not be purely artistic.



Elsa has an arc already that’s about self discovery and acceptance, it has touched all kinds of people beyond the LGBT side. Why would they limit her reach now?, why would they do basically repetition of such arc just to focus on the LGBT issues, Elsa’s arc already touches such problems so why is Frozen asked to be more specific?. Has everything that Elsa taught us and touched us with not enough?, was she never really this amazing character that represented self discovery and acceptance? were we lying and just seeing her singleness as a sign of being gay and as the best of her?. Yes the writers have said they want to touch today’s issues on Frozen 2, but they’ve already touched the issue of feeling and being different, are we really just asking them to be more specific because such lessons are only important when it’s about LGBT causes?.

Let’s also talk about the current story. The focus and the reason why so many fell in love with this movie is the familiar bond on it. The movie was meant to portray familiar love rather than center around romance like oh so many stories before it, and Frozen nailed it. Now let’s not kid ourselves, as soon as Elsa tuns into a lesbian the focus changes, it’s no longer “the franchise that’s all about familiar love and what goes beyond just romance” to “the franchise that finally got gay people into disney/the disney franchise that talks about homosexuality”. And I ask why should this happen?, why something that is already beloved and that has touched so many people should turn into something else in favor of activism? how is that fair? both for the story and the fans of it.

Keep reading

This was an interesting read, though I do have a few…hmm…counterpoints I’d like to make. there’s a tl;dr down the bottom but (now that i’ve written the rest of this) im tired, sad, and my ankle hurts.



The point you make about artistic integrity is interesting. If one paints a painting, do they then own the emotions it invokes in people? In the same way, if someone else suggests a particular color for the paint, do they own the painting?

I would like to ask, how much artistic integrity does film produced for the masses have? Perhaps not Frozen specifically – Walt Disney refused to compromise, after all, when the idea to create The Snow Queen for film was raised.

But would it be ‘pandering’ to a group to make one character LGBT? I find that way of thinking dangerously close to homophobia – a ‘we don’t need to see that on screen!’ line of thinking (please note though, that I’m not calling you or anyone who agrees with you homophobic). I may be LGBT myself, but since when does being inclusive fall under the term ‘pandering’. Is it pandering to cast non-white actors in roles, after all?

It’s sad when one considers such an act as ‘pushing an agenda’, but that is the world we live in. I disagree that having Elsa as LGBT is pushing said agenda, but that’s me.

I do, to some extent, understand that character’s, erm, characteristics don’t always physically match up with people. I know a guy who was born with only his pink finger and thumb on his left hand. You don’t see that in fiction. I have a bleeding disorder. Don’t see those in fiction either.

But the idea is not, necessarily, to have people who are exactly the same as you. The idea is to connect to a fictional character in some way. Currently, there are very few shows, or films, for young LGBT youth to watch to see themselves. I can tell you right now, I was most definitely a flaming homo as young as 8, but due to a lack of a) lesbians and b) asexual awareness, it took over a decade (and a lot of pain) for me to realise that I wasn’t, actually, straight.

A baby lesbian should not wonder to themselves, ‘how does anyone get a girl to agree to kiss another girl on the tv? eww’. (at this point i can’t even remember what that would have been, but by gum i remember thinking it).

So yes, well-written characters should be relatable no matter what, but how disappointing will it be if a young, burgeoning lesbian suddenly finds her hero to have a male love interest? And not only that, but say this hero is a woman who has rejected the heteronormative life that each and every one of her other heros accepted.

There is, after all, a reason Elsa is more popular than Anna, despite it technically being Anna’s film. Of course, the reason isn’t “Elsa’s gay”. It’s not that. More than that, it’s the sheer… relatability of the character.

Your Chadwick Boseman example is an interesting one. Yes, he can and will encourage thousands of children, of all ethnicities. That is noble, and yes, we can hope it becomes a commonplace sentiment. And yes, of course white people can influence and encourage non-white children. But a non-white child can’t look at a film that contains an entire ensemble of white actors, and see themselves represented there. And you say representation doesn’t matter, but I disagree. It is representation that makes a character relatable. They represent you, up there on the screen.

I’m going to skip some of your points because I’ll end up just saying what I’ve already said, but one point stuck out to me as being, well. Dangerous. Again.

The idea that having Elsa as a lesbian would only add to the incestuous vibe. This is dangerous thought for a myriad of reasons, not least because of the history of the perception that homosexuals were perverted, pedophilic predators.

And we know that Elsa was alone due to her powers, not her sexuality. If Frozen Fever is to be taken in the summer of the next year, that’s almost 12 months of Elsa being alone and not having an SO. So I ask, why is Elsa being a verified lesbian any different (any better or worse?) to her being alone?

And um. Okay. I’m starting to get the feeling that you’re not LGBT (though correct me if I’m wrong). It’s an assumption made because you suggested that other people think that having a lesbian elsa is superior over straight elsa and…no. that’s not the case. At all. Gay love isn’t better. It’s just that everyone is sick to death of the ‘boy meets girl’ story. We don’t //want Elsa to have a bit het romance because jesus christ that’s all anyone ever has nowadays. Elsa dares to be different, and now? Now she’s proud of it. Happy about it. Isn’t afraid of it.

I think it’s wrong for one to be labeled as homophobic for thinking that Elsa shouldn’t have a girlfriend. But some of your reasons for thinking that are, somewhat, biased against the homosexual community.

A story is a tool. A tool for growth or to learn or share. The characters are tools, too. And yes, some are poster children. Lexa from The 100 is one, prompting multiple fandoms and thousands of people to band together.

And I honestly cannot respond to any more of this. I read ahead. You think that it isn’t the right time for a lesbian princess (queen). You think this will be Elsa’s legacy? (not that many of the other DPs had their own legacies to begin with). The thing is, it is the right time. The right time is now. And it isn’t a case of ‘I think this person’s SO should be the same sex’. What is stopping them from doing that now?

You say, “Hopefully in the end Frozen won’t be a victim of such behavior, and won’t turn into something that exists just for the sake of pleasing a bunch.” And I call that a cop-out. I call that… I don’t know what I call that. The idea that having a major character in a Disney film who is LGBT- what? how in any way would Frozen be a victim. To be completely honest this last statement made me quite sad. I don’t even know how to explain it.

And maybe I’ve tried to be a little more polite than usual because I don’t know you or what you’re about, but it’s the blatant homophobia. Having- having an LGBT queen makes Frozen a victim?? That, by making her not-straight, it would be pandering to people? (oh yeah and hollywood never panders *looks at the straight white males who run, fund, act in, write, produce, and essentially have the monopoly over media*).

tl;dr: OP’s points, imo, boil down to ‘elsa shouldn’t be a lesbian because:

– it would make frozen lose its integrity by pandering to people

– it reduces elsa to merely a tool for agenda-pushing and activism

– it makes the incest more likely to appear (because elsa is lesbian anna is female)

– why make elsa gay when she can be alone~~~~~

– it’s “not the right time” for a lesbian disney princess

my points are that most of those points are homophobic, that stories and characters already are tools, that having an lgbt character is not pushing an agenda, that lgbt elsa does not mean incest is right around the door