Lately, rumors have swirled that the beloved character Apu Nahasapeemapetilon will be scrapped from The Simpsons due to an unfortunate knee-jerk backlash to the character. The showrunners deny that Apu is leaving the show, but the very fact that a controversy over Apu exists remains a sad stain on the reputation of an excellent show.

In the show, Apu is an Indian-American convenience store owner, a married man and father to eight children. The release of a documentary by comedian Hari Kondabolu called The Problem With Apu unleashed a groundswell of public opposition to Apu’s character. Kondabolu professes a deep love for The Simpsons, but argues Apu’s portrayal is problematic because it relies on stereotypes of Indian Americans. Of course, the show is entirely founded on stereotypes. Kondabolu objects in particular, however, to the presence of an Indian character voiced by a white actor. In the documentary, Kondabolu and other Indian actors and actresses address the realities of living as Indians in the entertainment industry, while Apu has for decades been the most prominent representation of an Indian in popular culture.

Not all Indians are opposed to Apu, however, and it is worth engaging with their opinions before assuming such opinions are ignorant or politically reactionary. Some of those dissenting voices may well be right wing, but Indians do in fact have a variety of responses to Apu, and all should be heard.

Satyajeet Marar wrote in The Daily Telegraph (Australian version) about his history with the character in a way that demonstrates the lack of uniformity among Indians. Pradheep Shanker, an Indian-American, has written a series of rigorous defenses of Apu at National Review, explaining how the character had a significantly positive impact on him. He argues convincingly that political correctness is ruining the way we watch our shows. Shanker raises an important point, in the wake of demands for Apu’s cancellation:

How will Hollywood execs greenlight any future comedies concerning South Asians? How exactly does Hollywood ever create a comedy around any Indian character going forward, without being theoretically insulting to Indians in the same manner for which Apu was criticized? Comedies, not just animated shows, are built around stereotypes. Every single one. And so, how do you build a show around an Indian American…without highlighting those very stereotypes that ended Apu’s run?

There has always been a push for greater representation, but debate exists about what constitutes representation of the genuine or valuable kind. In general, people object when a character who belongs to a certain ethnic group is played by someone who does not belong.

Given that objection, let’s talk about Diane Nguyen.

Bojack Horseman is Netflix’s eminently watchable animated series about Hollywood and mental illness. In its universe, animals and humans live together harmoniously, but almost every character is depressed. The character Diane Nguyen is a Vietnamese-American writer, friend to the titular character. She tries to be the most sensible person in a place where no one automatically fits in.

One significant difference between Diane and Apu is that Diane is not intended to be a caricature of her own kind, whereas Apu is. One may argue that Diane, despite being written beyond cliches, is still a problematic character due to the actress who voices her—Alison Brie, who is white. Indeed, even Bojack Horseman creator Raphael Bob-Waksberg expressed that very reservation in the wake of the Apu controversy.

However, when I first heard she was playing a character that shares a surname with me, I wasn’t outraged about this casting decision. Rather, I felt it was odd. Not in the sense of being unusual or atypical, but odd that someone would play a character whose name is like mine yet whose skin isn’t the same. Of course, there is more malleability for casting voice actors than actors for live-action productions. Without a visual correspondence between a voice actor and the animated character he or she plays on the screen, the possibility exists for the voice actor to be drastically different—including racially and ethnically—from the character, so long as the voice actor can manipulate his or her voice in the desired way. (For an interesting and related case within the live-action entertainment space, see the ordeal over Scarlett Johansson cast for the role of a transgender character.)

Some Indians, including Marar and Kondabolu, experienced bullying based Apu’s accent. Like Kondabolu, Marar was an immigrant to Australia and experienced bullying partly based on his accent. Though the taunting was difficult to deal with, Marar talks about the necessity of becoming resilient. Since Diane isn’t meant to be a caricature, I struggle to envision how I could personally be teased in relation to that character. She doesn’t have her own catchphrase, and is never really singled out for her foreignness, even as she exhibits her own distinct character. What distinguishes her from the other characters in the show—including Bojack Horseman, Princess Carolyn, and Mr. Peanutbutter— is that she plays the “every-woman” with a hint of self-importance in her observations.

Every character on Bojack Horseman has faced significant disappointments and failures. Diane is no exception. She experienced a failed marriage and abuse within her family. She canceled a book project, which meant she had to crash at a friend’s place for months. Perhaps, however, this is why Diane Nguyen is more valuable than Apu. Apu is ultimately a positive portrayal, and this is supposed counteract the previous negative portrayals of underrepresented minorities. But the portrayal of Diane is more fully rounded, and for that reason, means she is not reduced to her representation of her ethnic heritage.

In a Season 1 episode, Diane returns to her family for the first time since her father passed away. Her family hasn’t made the necessary preparations for a funeral, which means, to her chagrin, she has to do it by herself. Her family members are voiced by Melissa Leo, Larry Clarke, Mike O’Malley, and Patton Oswalt. The choice of these actors conveys what kind of family they are, or rather, what kind of family they are not. There’s no semblance of Vietnamese culture. Instead, what we see and hear is an American dysfunctional and estranged migrant family with the most over-the-top Boston accents imaginable. They are unemployed and blame immigrants.

Diane’s heritage is further explored in the second episode of Season Five, where she returns to Vietnam to “rediscover herself” and has found that her Americanisms are deeply ingrained. It is difficult for her to speak in her native tongue. She alienates both American tourists and Vietnamese natives. It is the best episode in the season, largely because it pinpoints Asian identity with a painfully common message: You will always be the outsider, no matter where you are. Perhaps what makes Diane distinct is her thoroughgoing resilience.

Alison Brie has voiced many minor characters on the show, often with exaggerated accents. These minor characters resemble everyone on The Simpsons, which means its cultural commentary is using not realism but heightened absurdity. Characters of all types are depicted in a more or less unflattering way, where their irrationality or assent to convention is treated as a punchline in its own right.

It should be noted that some Asian characters on The Simpsons have been voiced by Asians. George Takei, for instance, has provided voice acting in different episodes as a Japanese game show host, a Chinese waiter, and as Akira, a restaurant owner. However, unlike Apu, the characters Takei has voiced have been minor ones. With a character as integral as Apu, or as Diane in Bojack, should different rules apply?

If a long-running animated series ought to scrap Apu, then perhaps it’s possible that even a show like Bojack Horseman, which has borne its progressive banner so proudly, ought to follow suit.

Bob-Waksberg is at least frank about how the casting of Diane could have gone better. An Asian-American actress almost got the part, but had contractual duties to another TV show. Then Brie was chosen. But the regretful creator told Indiewire in January 2018, in the wake of the Apu controversy, that “the idea of the appearance of representation without true inclusion is not actual representation. In fact, it can be more harmful than helpful.”

However, his public self-lashing may well come across as patronizing to individuals who belong to that underrepresented demographic. I am all for the representation of minorities and women in the media. I believe that many did not and still do not have the same opportunities as white male actors. Yet, by adhering to such strict absolutes, certain nuances may well be lost.

Thanks to the advent of social media, we live in an age where the relative moral weight of pop culture has been transformed and amplified. As Wesley Morris eloquently describes in a New York Times Magazine essay called “The Morality Wars”:

Art can be reparatory — a means for the oppressed and ignored to speak, for the visible to be seen. The defining objective of the civil rights movement and the women’s movement and the gay rights movement was equality, sure, but also motion — forward, upward, outward. The country has never looked both more and less like what these movements aspired to achieve. All this toppling and canceling and shushing feels like a radically logical extension of equality. It was to put more nonwhite people and women and queer people alongside the straight white men who have kept them away from equal power, then lectured and legislated away the exclusions. A bonus aim is to rid us, by any means necessary, of everything deemed hateful or intolerant. Why should the truly equal have to put up with any of that?

Art cannot and should not be the perfect substitute for a just society. A whitewashed minority character is not the best representation of that minority. However, a character that is played by an actor of the appropriate ethnic group is not guaranteed to be a good representation either. For example, Crazy Rich Asians has been a cinematic box-office success and has been critically praised for having all-Asian representation, from its cast to crew. Some plausibly argued that, nonetheless, the film was not the best representation of Asians.

Conversations about representation require diverse voices from the represented community. And they require patience and a principle of charity toward artists. As Morris observed about a fracas over a surreal painting by a white woman of the murder of Emmett Till:

The conversations are exasperated, the verdicts swift, conclusive and seemingly absolute. The goal is to protect and condemn work, not for its quality, per se, but for its values. Is this art or artist, this character, this joke bad for women, gays, trans people, nonwhites? Are the casts diverse enough? Is this museum show inclusive of enough different kinds of artists? Does the race of the curators correspond with the subject of the show or collection?

Unlike Apu, Diane is not very well-liked by the show’s audience. In fact, she’s disliked for betraying Bojack before giving him a chance to change his ways. Yet, many people who watch Diane Nguyen or Apu don’t automatically associate the characters with their actors. Apu is a character who successfully immigrated to America, earned a Ph.D. in computer science, was a desirable bachelor, but decided to open up a Kwik-E-Mart instead. Diane Nguyen is a third-wave feminist who has written books about horses. She studied Literature and Equines Studies at Boston University and lives with her Hollywood superstar husband. She inadvertently managed to make America become more favorable to abortion and successfully challenged politicians to ban guns by just saying “go ahead.”

Diane Nguyen is a rich, complex character. If she were scrapped (though there are no current plans to do so), we would lose a valuable part of the show. The moral issues surrounding representation are complicated. Unfortunately, no simple step—including simply ruling out white actors voicing marginalized groups—can address this issue properly.