In 2004 the world was blessed with Def Jam Fight For NY. Rappers from Joe Budden and Busta Rhymes, to Snoop Dogg and Slick Rick all battled to the death in a fighting game that almost perfectly captured the era in which it was reflecting: Oversized Jerseys, Oversized Chains, and quite possibly the biggest and most entertaining egos in Hip-Hop History.

But now, more than 10 years later, a group of Fighting Game enthusiasts, Joey Bag O Donuts, Chris “Cinderella” Princler, and The Gatekeeper to name a few, have joined forces to electrify and revive a game that has been forgotten by many. I caught up with those gentlemen and decided to ask them a few questions about the rising of the DEF JAM FFNY competitive scene. We talk about how they got started and how they keep people engaged. They’ve even made a tier list that ranks the game’s rosters from “E” to “Banned” helping us all feel better about losing to God Tier Suspect.

Him: How is everything, guys? Thanks for taking some time to chat

Joey Bag O’ Donuts: Things are going great! Working on this game is hard work and a lot of work, but I love It! Always trying hard to grow and elevate the scene. Other than that, happy with life! Got a good woman, got a Bachelor’s degree, Growing in the FGC, and working on some certifications! Also, thanks for having us, man! The GateKeeper: Been pretty good. Thanks for asking. We appreciate you inviting us to chat.

Him: So can you guys take us back to the beginning? What is going on with DEF JAM FFNY? isn’t that game like 10 years old??

Chris “Cinderella” Princler: The beginning is me playing FFNY back in 2005. Played it for ages, not necessarily at a high level, but because I really like wrestling games. WWF No Mercy is an all-time favorite of mine to this day. Much later on I got involved in my local fighting game community, a little before SFIV came out in 2009. Started going to tournaments, making connections that way. At some point around 2014, there was an all weird games tournament, games that you wouldn’t see at traditional fighting game events. I entered NBA Jam and FFNY. A few other odd games were there as well, such as Divekick. Anyway, to prepare for the tournament, I got together with a few players in my community and really started getting into the game again. Both learning it at a high level and remembering just how fun it is to play. That tournament definitely recaptured my interest in the game and it’s why I started hosting my own tournaments for the game and traveling to help promote it. Joey: WWF No Mercy is definitely awesome… Me and my Bro loved the shit out of this game! Played it all the damn time growing up. Same with friends and family. Even when the game was old we still found our selves playing it years later just cuz it was so damn fun! After CEO 2015, me and my bro caught wind of a Def Jam Fight for New York tournament scene. CEO 2016, we first competed, that was wild (can go into individual stories on the events as well, but just trying to summarize). CEO 2016 gave us a taste for the scene! CEO 2017 we tried hard and elevated the game! CEO 2018 we started to get really serious, that’s when shit really changed! And from then on, the blow-up has been huge (which it was already huge at CEO 2018!) GK: Back to the beginning. Well, my brother Joey and I have been playing Def Jam: FFNY since around the time it came out. It was easily one of our one more match games for years, but we played it casually until CEO 2016. At CEO 2016 we found that Chris was hosting a Def Jam: FFNY side tourney, and I found myself wanting to compete. At CEO 2016 I took second place using Xzibit (who is currently a banned character) and knew I had to be back the next year. After examining the game much further, we decided we wanted to do something so much more for the community. So we decided to look at the entire 69 character cast and create a tier list and the bible. This was a months-long process, which trickled over into tournaments and has even been influenced by the results of those tournaments. Considering I was in law school and was starting to study for the bar exam when we started this major delve into Def Jam: FFNY, I’m just happily surprised we got as much work done as we did in the time we had available. Joey: Never know how $20 can change your life huh? GK: Aint that the truth.

Him: What are everyone’s roles when it comes to keeping the DEF JAM FFNY world alive and kicking?

GK: My role in the Def Jam: FFNY world is a lot of background work. I have been with my brother Joey the whole way when it comes to testing characters for tier placements and giving fresh perspectives on characters that he may not have. I also help out where I can. Rokuda (who created the previous tier list graphic for us) generously gave me permission to use his previous header so that I could throw together a graphic of my own because the community needed a new one. At CEO 2018, I helped out Diamond’s group while they were streaming it, at CEOtaku I commentated while Joey and Chris had their finals match. There are so many jobs, and I’m glad to have my hand in nearly all of them. Joey: So I have many roles in this. Apparently, I have become the face of Def Jam Fight For New York! Both for the community and just like any knowledge of the scene in general. So I continue to promote the game! I have a growing name and reputation that is picking up quite nicely as a streamer and in the world of gaming especially the FGC and as a commentator! Essentially, I am growing as both a Pro and in Name and Popularity and have become a good face and outlet for helping spread the news and attracting more attention! I Promote quite a bit every where I go with gaming! Am always mentioning Def Jam FFNY, in my communities, on stream, when I commentate and when I am competing in tournaments. We literally have members of every FGC in here, and non-FGC. But aside from being the Face and Promoter for Def Jam FFNY, I am also a Main Commentator for it, I am always open and teaching new members that want to play this game competitively or for fun to help spread the new knowledge and to breed new life into this game for people, but am also working behind the scenes helping with tournament organizing and streaming in the same ways as my brother. My brother helps me with the Tier and Testing tremendously, but there are also lots of additional work I have done on it. Chris: My main role at this point is tournament organizer. Until I’m told otherwise I’ve gotten the largest group of people playing FFNY for money in one room at the same time. I host one big tournament every year, looks like that will move up to twice a year with the sudden surge in interest. I started a discord to hopefully get people in other communities that are playing the game together to share strategies and hopefully meet up and play. That started out small but thanks to people like Joey, Gatekeeper, as well as a handful of Names in the FGC helping promote it, it has gotten to be reasonably well known in the past few months. I do still play, and I’d like to think I do so at a high level.

Him: Since there is a competitive scene for the game, how would you describe competitive gameplay? How does it differ from the other big fighting games?

Joey: The competitive play for this game is ridiculously unique and I love it. People can not even fathom nor understand how when I tell them Professional Level Def Jam FFNY play is anime level Tech! Between understanding the STATS and KITS, learning the frame data and priority, Damage Optimization, Combos, I-frames, Reach and Recovery frames, grab breaking Tech. Then things like Block Canceling, Parrying, Step in Cancel Parries, Green Lighting, so much Crazy tech that has come into play! Its Crazy! We literally have players from every FGC and everyone is good! It is insane! What FGC game can say they have players from Smash Bros, Tekken, Virtua Fighter, KOF (SNK Games), Street Fighter, NRS games, Marvel vs Capcom, Killer Instinct, etc. And all of there tech and cancelling they have learned playing their games and helps them play this game together! It’s amzing! But beyond that, it is an AKI Wrestling game so there are some issues, and style adjustments to be made and get used to as opposed to fighters. But it is amazingly open to players of all scenes! So you see lots of interesting play styles. Chris: I think it plays similar to other fighting games. It’s all about making your opponent do the thing you want them to do, then punishing them severely when they do it. The top top guys, just like top players in any other fighting game, know how to get optimal damage out of an opportunity, know how to minimize risk and create openings. Aside from the general stuff, Pokken is actually a game that compares pretty well to FFNY. So, FFNY has a combat triangle, strike beats throw beats block/parry beats strike. But certain tools can throw rock and paper at the same time. Pokken operates in a very similar way. There are few other similarities, but that’s a mainstream game I would compare FFNY to, to give a really basic idea of how combat flows.

Him: So sick. Do you think we’ll ever see another DEF JAM fighting game? Why has it been so long since we’ve seen a game from them? Also, Have you guys tried DEF JAM ICON? (2007) Joey: I do think if we can keep up the growth and building the scene and intention and make the scene big enough! I do think we could get either a Proper Sequel to this game or Remaster of the game at least! I know that is a lot to ask and believe in, but the Catherine scene did it and I am a part of that scene too. GK: If the community stays as active as it has been lately, and continues to grow, I can definitely see a new Def Jam fighting game. Someone on Def Jam’s twitter actually was making posts, teasing either a Def Jam game remake, or a new one, which would be amazing. As far as why, we do our best not to talk about why a new Def Jam fighting game has been made. Def Jam: Icon is one of the major reasons we don’t have a new game. The other issue is, which I can understand from a developer standpoint, is making sure your fan base is there. Nowadays I could see a Def Jam related video game having a lot of redtape, and the licensing fees, which would scare developers away without a consistent fanbase. And Yes, I’ve tried it. I was hoping it would have been a good successor title. However, the game has become somewhat of a joke in the Def Jam: FFNY community, and is best not mentioned in good company. Joey: Yea I have actually tried Def Jam Icon. The Game is awful. I sadly can understand why it killed the scene for so long, the game was Terrible! It is also why refer to it as “The game that never Existed” But I honestly believe that in my opinion, the game just killed it for a duration, like putting Def Jam to sleep or in a coma. But I believe the love is there for the names, the scene, the games that it can be brought back and elevated. But yes……I have tried it… Chris: I’m not optimistic. The early to mid 00s were a gold mine for weird licensed games. These days, publishers and rights holders feel less interested in taking the risk making a game like FFNY today. To answer the other question, Icon was a disaster. It basically killed all the momentum FFNY had.

Him: Whats the biggest thing the team has learned from this journey with this classic game?

GK: There is a lot of love from all parts of the FGC for this game. We always had a feeling, but seeing the push in the recent year for this game really puts that love on display. The other thing to keep in mind that we learned from the journey is that the 69 character roster is not perfectly balanced, and while we prefer not banning characters, it is important to understand that sometimes it is necessary for the health of the competitive scene. That is unless we get someone amazing to come around and perform a Project M styled revival of Def Jam: FFNY. Cause I would love to see the cast balanced out so that near everyone can be played competitively. Joey: What I have learned the most from this game as that you never know what you can learn in a game. Always more than meets the eye. Additionally, just shows how much love there is for this game! But most of all, the fact that it does not matter how small or unknown you are. How obscure or dead you think your game is too. You never know what can happen unless you try and go for it! I have been growing has a name, a Professional, a Face, a Promoter, a Commentator, and a FACE and Name and Popularity in the scene (and I feel this has been a big reason for all of this affected all of my Tournament Game scenes and Play as well as my Grow in Name and Popularity and Confidence!) Also, You can start any scene you want if you really try! You can make it into something big if put enough effort, work and passion to it! We are doing it with Def Jam FFNY! I hope to do this with Pokemon Puzzle League and Clay Fighters 63 &1/3! Never thought this game would do so much for me or teach me so much! You never know how much $20 and Passion can change your life! Chris: There’s two answers to this. One, I come from the fighting game community. The same community that laughs at the Smash community for the most part for stripping so much content out of their game to make it competitively viable. The more we learned about this game the more we realized that was necessary and I fought with Joey and Gatekeeper every step of the way. I really don’t like getting rid of characters, but it really does make the difference between a roster of one viable character to one that looks like over 20. The other being, with enough effort, this relatively niche fighting game can go a lot farther than I thought it could. A 34 player tournament for a 15 year old wrestling game is pretty impressive and the goal is to grow that even further.

Him: Can we expect to see this game grow and be taken more seriously? Or do you feel the game is getting the respect it deserves as a competitive title?

GK: I think we are already seeing the growth. When we first joined the discord server, there were around 10 people. We now have over 220 people in the server and we are continuing to grow. Also, every year we go to CEO, we come back stronger and get more entrants. To put it simply, I believe the game is already being taken seriously. If this push continues, we may even see Def Jam: FFNY as a main title at an event someday. That’s what I’m pushing for. Joey: I actually fully believe we can definitely expect to see this game taken more seriously as a competitive title! The scene has grown in size exponentially, the popularity has grown, we have gotten lots of active big names and players in the scene! I expect to see this game get some serious main stage highlight time at some point as well as to have more active tournaments! Def Jam World Tour is a thing we want to bring one day just like Def Jam at EVO (but traveling can be costly) But it can definitely grow! Chris: One thing I know for sure about the FGC in general, if the game recognizes a winner and loser, people will play it. With members of the Def Jam community putting out semi-regular video content (as well as a weekly online tournament series hosted by BxA Jackal), more people are going to get to see the game being played at a high level, which is all I think the game needs to be taken seriously.

Him: As far as the artists in the game. Many of them being hip hop legends. How has rejuvenating the scene for the game influenced hiphop conversations, your musical tastes, and the era that this game reflects?

Joey: Being honest, it has helped me get more into Hip-Hop music when I typically am not a fan! But it has definitely got me bumpin to a lot of the beats in the game and has been bringing lots music like Post Malone and such lately. Definitely makin that Hip-Hop woke in me on top of everything else! But yea, can definitely say this game also brings up so much older era previous generation talk as well as conversation on all of these Hip-Hop Legends! So yea, definitely a Blast to the Past when we talk about this game and do Story Mode Streams! That T-Mobile Sidekick and those jorts! GK: That is a really interesting question. To be honest, back when I was younger, I didn’t care for the music too much, but I grew up on Rock and Heavy Metal. As I’ve grown, the game’s awesome soundtrack has definitely influenced some of the music I’ve listened to, as I’ve developed a love for certain styles of hip-hop. As far as hip-hop conversations, I haven’t been part of any personally. But I do love going back to that era and experiencing my childhood when I play the game. Chris: I started watching Henry Rollins standup because I got back into the game at an age where his standup made sense. I’m 28 today, I’ve heard something like the music that was popular when you were 15 really defines your taste in music. Rap was huge in the mid-00s. Sean Paul was on the radio, same with Fat Joe, Luda, Bonecrusher and Lil Flip. They were all mainstream at that time I definitely remember listening to them when the game came out. I’ve always enjoyed rap music, and I have gone back and listened to a lot of the roster’s music at one point or another. Re: the era. What I remember about this era was hip-hop music and culture was mainstream America. This is exactly the game that generation of kids wanted at the time. Joey: Yea, I listen to lots of other music more often myself like rock, K & J Pop, House Music, etc. But this game has definitely influenced me!

Him: Have you tweeted Joe Budden yet to let him know he’s S tier?

GK: I know I haven’t, but it is not a bad idea. I did, however, let Sticky Fingaz know that he was the most busted guy in Def Jam: FFNY, still no response on that one though [laughs] Chris: I definitely remember when we were doing promo for CEO (the fighting game major championship that lets us host our tournament) this past year, we did tag a few rappers on Twitter to let them know their character was literally too good for competitive play, or that we were playing them in the tournament. Nothing ever came of it. I don’t know what Budden would say. I love angry old man Budden, and I’d like to imagine he would shove being S tier in every rapper he doesn’t like today’s faces. Joey: [Laughs] No we have not!

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special shoutout to @RSHuggyBear , @Kitana_Prime , @Argenrost , @blackphoenix843