Neal Avron (@nealavron)

Ten years ago, a relatively unknown punk band from suburban Chicago released an album that would have a permanent influence on pop culture. Fall Out Boy’s major-label debut, From Under the Cork Tree, ushered in a new brand of pop-punk and the oft-derided emo to the masses with a style and flair unheard of on radio at the time. Thanks in part to the unique vocal stylings of singer Patrick Stump and the thought-provoking lyrics of emo posterboy Pete Wentz, singles like “Sugar, We’re Goin Down” and “Dance, Dance” had everyone from punk rockers to frat boys deciphering lyrical tongue-twisters.

The album was a commercial success, debuting at No. 9 on The Billboard 200, and it opened the doors for the mid-2000s pop-punk movement from similar bands like Panic! At the Disco. Fall Out Boy has maintained a successful and fruitful career over the years (this year saw the release of Fall Out Boy’s sixth studio album, American Beauty/American Psycho), though Cork Tree remains the quintessential album that put the band on the map. On the 10 th anniversary of Cork Tree, the album’s producer, Neal Avron, takes a look back at the album’s origins and how it became a classic.

NEAL AVRON

Reluctance—And First Contact

Photo by Saverio Truglia/WireImage

I was contacted by Rob Stevenson, who was [Fall Out Boy’s] A&R guy at Island Records. Basically he told me he had this band, Fall Out Boy, and I don't believe I had specifically heard of them. He was very excited about me being involved in the record and said he thought I’d be a perfect fit and could he send me some demos from the upcoming record, which he did. They probably were on CDs at that point. I don't remember how many he sent me—maybe five, a handful—and my initial reaction was that I was not interested in doing the record. I just felt like the songs weren’t that strong and I wasn’t getting a great vibe. This wasn’t a record I had to do and didn't want to be generally involved in. I told that to Rob and we just kind of went our separate ways.

He seemed convinced I’d want to do the record, and I don't remember how long of a gap it was, several weeks, [and he said] “I want to send you some new songs.” On that second batch were “Sugar [We’re Goin Down]” and “Dance, Dance.” Then I was pretty smitten at that point. I thought those songs were killer immediately. I was ready to go—let’s meet the band, let’s talk this out.

The label flew me to Denver. The band at that point was nonstop touring and I got a chance to see them live—I think it was at the Bluebird Theater in Denver. The energy was crazy. I was impressed. They had a real mixed crowd: It was half guys, half girls. They were appealing to a wide variety of people. Once I heard Patrick sing and the energy of band, I thought, “Wow, this really is a thing.” Patrick, his voice is very different. I’d done three New Found Glory and had success with Yellowcard, and Patrick’s voice was definitely a different animal. He came from some of the same scene [as those bands] but his voice gave it a whole other rootsy R&B thing. I loved that.

Basically after their show we went across the street to some Thai restaurant. We kind of chatted, and after 20 minutes of idle chitchat Pete came out and said, “You have to produce our record.” He said, “You’re our guy, we want you, you have to do this.” They were huge fans of New Found Glory at the time—loved the heaviness of [the records] with the pop sensibility of it. That was pretty much it. Right at that restaurant we agreed: Let’s do a record together.

We started [the recording process] with pre-production, which was us spending a few weeks going through the songs. Because of their schedule of touring and whatnot, as I recall, I flew to Chicago. We were going to split up pre-production. Pete and Patrick picked me up in I believe Pete’s car that was such a beater. It was so funny—it was pretty trashed. We all met at the oddest place. They drove me to this tall building, or maybe it was a house. We were in the basement of somebody’s house and we were just rehearsing. [This guy there had] this shaved head, looked kind of Russian mob. I don't know how they found that place, but it was definitely weird for that first week. We rehearsed through the songs and got the ball rolling. Then we all flew out in LA and went into a rehearsal space for about a week or so.

“Sugar, We’re Goin Down”

Fall Out Boy during 2005 MTV Video Music Awards - Show at American Airlines Arena in Miami, Florida, United States. (Photo by Jason Squires/WireImage)

What I really remember the most was working on “Sugar.” When I heard the demo, the chorus was the chorus. That didn’t change, that was just it. The verse was kind of a mess—it just wasn't matching the vibe of the song. I broke my feeling to the bands and they’re like, “OK.”

Patrick was really the catalyst for most of the music writing. I remember the next day he would come in and say, “How about this for the verse?” And he would play me something with the guitar and sing it. And I’d say, “No, I don’t think that’s it.” The next day, he’d come in with a new verse. And “No, that’s not it.”

We probably went through five or six verses ‘til they came in with the last one, and he played it for me. I was like, “Can you play that one again?” He played it again, and we played it as a band, and I said, “That’s the one.” We were kind of like celebrating that moment. We finally found that thing in the verse that could live up to the chorus. That’s one of my great memories. We really worked very hard to make that song a complete, amazing song.

Keeping Patrick Stump’s Vocals as Fresh as Possible

As far as recording, we recorded in Burbank in a studio called Ocean. A guy named Freddy Piro owned it. [He was] an old engineer/producer from the ‘60s and early ‘70s and built this amazing studio—kind of a one-room place that used to be a car dealership. I think the guys really enjoyed it. The recording was pretty uneventful. We did a lot of the grunt work in pre-production, getting the songs up and running and rehearsing.

They really knew [the music]. It was more about them performing, having fun with the songs. I remember there being tons of challenges. Again one of the things that stood out was when we were doing “Sugar.” I do remember that because we all felt that song was so special. The chorus was really high in Patrick’s range. We wanted him to sound really fresh on every chorus. As we got into the singing of the record, he’d come in for chorus one on like Tuesday, then we’d kind of pull the plug on him singing. And on Wednesday he’d come in and sing chorus two; Thursday he’d come sing chorus three. Each one was as fresh and wide open and as energetic and great as we could make it.

The Hip-Hop Influence?

The other thing that was really fun: There were several guests on the record. Pete had a real sense of doing things in the hip-hop tradition—you bring in some of your own artists that you’re interested in. I had met Pete in Chicago and he’d given me a copy of a book he had written, he had a clothing line. He was one of the first people in the scene I had met that was entrepreneurial. I was really impressed with that. He was signed to put together a label at that point. He was involved with Panic! [at the Disco] at that point— that’s why Brendon Urie came in and sang. He was involved with The Academy Is… which is why William Beckett came in and sang.

I had brought in Chad Gilbert from New Found Glory to sing on one of the songs. I want to set the record straight on this, because on that same song ["I Slept With Someone In Fall Out Boy and All I Got Was This Stupid Song Written About Me"] the vocals in the back are sung by New Found Glory who did not get credited on that record. [New Found Glory’s] Cyrus [Bolooki] never let me forget that.

“Falling Apart in Half-Time”

We had a few little battles. One small battle was some stick up my ass about lyrics in “Dance, Dance.” [The lyrics] talk about “falling apart in half-time,” and I kept thinking nobody’s going to understand what the hell that lyric meant. While probably a lot of people don't understand a lot of Pete’s lyrics, I just felt since we thought that was a potential single, I wanted it to be a little more clear. We battled on it a little bit. I kept saying, “Let’s come up with another line.” I think Pete did try and come up with another line but we all agreed nothing ever quite sang as well. I kind of ended up giving in on that. Of course as history shows, I’m glad I gave in and didn’t push any harder than I kind of pushed.

The Song Titles

I don't remember what the original titles of all the songs were, but everything was a working title. I think “Sugar” was called “Sugar, Sugar” originally, and “Dance, Dance” was “Dance, Dance.” I think that’s why “Sugar” got changed. When the album came out and I saw the record and all the crazy titles that Pete and Patrick and the band had put together, I could never remember [any of the titles] except those two songs. Unless I’m watching it on my iPhone I can’t remember what all the names of the songs are today.

Track Sequencing

One other fun note: When I was mixing the record, one of the things, if you listen down to the record as a whole, I’m really proud of is that we really spent a lot of time on the sequencing on the record. The first four or five songs really knock your socks off—powerful, one, two, three punches that just never let you stop moving. Then the record starts to settle in.

Pete Wentz Huddled Over the Toilet With a Mic

Fall Out Boy during the 2005 Vans Warped Tour stop in Columbus, Ohio. (Photo by Marc Andrew Deley/FilmMagic)

One of the transitions, I remember Pete wanted to do this dialogue thing between the last two songs, but he hadn’t written it. It wasn’t until mix time that he was like, “I got it,” and at that point I was in the mix room, which really didn’t have much of a vocal booth.

Also he was kind of shy that there was a window in [the mix room]. So I put him in the bathroom, which had no window and was the tiniest space—barely enough room to go to the bathroom in. It was this all marble echo-y thing and he kind of just sat there with a mic huddled over the toilet. He did a bunch of takes and by the third or fourth take that was it. I just remember that every time I would mix in that room and somebody would come in there and we’d be chatting, it was always a story I had about that mixing room and Pete doing the vocals.

On Working With Island Records

[There wasn’t much pushback from the label.] I’ve always been fortunate: If you have success in a particular place and people hire you on that success, a lot of times they kind of trust you. John Janick, who was head of Fueled by Ramen, and Rob Stevenson came down to listen, but there was never any pushback and I don't recall any comments about us changing anything. Rob was involved in my lyric change and he was open to it, but he wasn’t real strong one way or the other. We were really left to our own devices to make that record. It was really the band and I that put that thing together from start to finish.

Initial Success: “Dance Dance” vs. “Sugar, We’re Goin Down”

When we finished the record I thought we had some strong songs. I didn’t know what kind of acceptance would be out there for Fall Out Boy. They had a pretty hardcore following but it was contained still at that point. First of all I thought “Dance, Dance” was going to be that first single. I thought it had that up-tempo thing and was so different from anything on radio groove-wise and vocally. I thought it would stand out, and the label went with “Sugar.” The video was very interesting and different and eclectic. I think that stood out and really helped the record. I had no idea it would debut at No. 9 or have the immense success that it did. I thought it could have success but I certainly didn’t walk in expecting it.

Opening the Door For Panic! At the Disco

With Fall Out Boy, [the pop/punk] genre got defined a little bit more. Their sound took it to a slightly different place because of Patrick’s voice. If you listen to some of the songs like “XO” on the record, you can hear the rootsy-ness of Patrick’s voice. He’s really emoting in a way.

Plus Pete’s lyric sense really changed the game for a lot of people. He has a very unique take on things, and his wordplay and rhyme or lack of rhyme is really interesting, and somehow he has a way of putting words together that are singable and unique and memorable and really thought-provoking. I think that helped open door for bands like Panic for sure. And not just the band itself, but Pete himself as a record label entrepreneur helped usher in bands like Panic.

On the Longevity of From Under the Cork Tree

Patrick Stump, Pete Wentz, Joe Trohman and Andy Hurley at the World Music Awards on May 27, 2014 in Monte-Carlo, Monaco (Photo by Didier Baverel/WireImage)

I think people love that record to this day because of the songs. We tried to define a sound for them and I think that album really defined a moment for that band. It took them from Take This to Your Grave, which was a stepping-stone and had a lot of that energy, but it was a bit more polished and a bit more frantic. I think …Cork Tree came and put those elements together with a slightly neater polished package with no lack of energy.