Bill Shorten said Australia’s immigration levels could rise, calling on Australians never to “hide from our destiny” as an immigrant country, as he made a televised pitch for the Labor leadership.

Shorten said his party had to restate support for immigration, including from skilled migrants and refugees, and acknowledge every Australian other than Aborigines and Torres Strait Islanders “came on a boat or a plane”.

“We are not pulling up the ladder,” Shorten said. “I believe immigration levels can go up. We get to occupy a whole continent. No doubt I will get all the hate mail … but we are an immigrant country and we shouldn’t ever hide from our destiny.”

Shorten was debating rival Labor candidate Anthony Albanese on ABC’s Q&A program in Perth prior to the party’s leadership ballot. The vote, for the first time, will be open to rank and file party members, split 50-50 between their ballots and those of the Labor caucus. A result is expected to be announced on 13 October.

Albanese took a softer line on immigration but stated if he were to win the Labor leadership, he would be the first leader of either party with a non-Anglo name.

“There are times when immigration numbers should go up and times when they should reduce,” Albanese said.

He rejected suggestions that Labor’s move towards the right on refugee policy meant Labor had “abandoned our values”.

“We had to deal with a practical issue, that people were risking their lives at sea,” Albanese said. “I would like to see a move back to national consensus on this issue. We had a national consensus on the White Australia policy and a national consensus on the Vietnamese refugees.”

Both candidates ruled out a return by Kevin Rudd to the front bench, agreeing the former prime minister was not interested in a position in a future shadow cabinet.

A key Rudd supporter and deputy prime minister after under his resumed prime ministership, Albanese said the member for Griffith did not want a senior role in the opposition.

“Kevin doesn’t want a position in shadow cabinet, but he is entitled to respect as a former prime minister, as is Julia Gillard,” Albanese said.

Shorten agreed, repeating that he “understood” Rudd was not interested in a shadow cabinet position.

Audience questions ranged from the move towards a republic to Labor’s vision. A number focused on Shorten’s alleged role in the removal of prime ministers Rudd and Gillard.

A Labor member questioner from the Perth audience asked about federal Labor’s inability to comprehend WA’s “aspiration” as a mining state, for growth and personal advancement, a failure he said was linked to the low vote at the last election.

Shorten said while Labor was a party which protected the disadvantaged, “we can’t have an us versus them mentality” – a clear reference to Labor’s “class war” narrative under Gillard and former treasurer Wayne Swan.

“We need to make it clear that we welcome people being successful. We need to make it very clear that we are not class warriors of old,” Shorten said.

Albanese said he was a regular visitor to WA and was involved in funding infrastructure in the state during his time as infrastructure minister.

On the minerals resource rent tax (MRRT), both candidates were personally in favour of blocking attempts by the Coalition government to repeal the tax, pending a decision on the policy by caucus.

“I don’t accept this argument by some that there’s a sovereign risk merely because we want our fair share of resources being reinvested in Australia,” Shorten said.