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Eric Korpela

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Message 1813506 - Posted: 29 Aug 2016, 17:50:30 UTC

Last modified: 29 Aug 2016, 17:52:24 UTC



I was one of the many people who received the the email with the subject "Candidate SETI SIGNAL DETECTED by Russians from star HD 164595 by virtue of RATAN-600 radio telescope." Since the email did come from known SETI researchers, I looked over the presentation. I was unimpressed. In one out of 39 scans that passed over star showed a signal at about 4.5 times the mean noise power with a profile somewhat like the beam profile. Of course SETI@home has seen millions of potential signals with similar characteristics, but it takes more than that to make a good candidate. Multiple detections are a minimum criterion.



Because the receivers used were making broad band measurements, there's really nothing about this "signal" that would distinguish it from a natural radio transient (stellar flare, active galactic nucleus, microlensing of a background source, etc.) There's also nothing that could distinguish it from a satellite passing through the telescope field of view. All in all, it's relatively uninteresting from a SETI standpoint.



But, of course, it's been announced to the media. Reporters won't have the background to know it's not interesting. Because the media has it, and since this business runs on media, everyone will look at it. ATA is looking at it. I assume Breakthrough will look at it. Someone will look at it with Arecibo, and we'll be along for the ride. And I'll check the SETI@home database around that position. And we'll all find nothing. It's not our first time at this rodeo, so we know how it works. @SETIEric



I'm sure that many of you have seen the news reports of a "SETI signal" detected from the star HD 164595I was one of the many people who received the the email with the subject "Candidate SETI SIGNAL DETECTED by Russians from star HD 164595 by virtue of RATAN-600 radio telescope." Since the email did come from known SETI researchers, I looked over the presentation. I was unimpressed. In one out of 39 scans that passed over star showed a signal at about 4.5 times the mean noise power with a profile somewhat like the beam profile. Of course SETI@home has seen millions of potential signals with similar characteristics, but it takes more than that to make a good candidate. Multiple detections are a minimum criterion.Because the receivers used were making broad band measurements, there's really nothing about this "signal" that would distinguish it from a natural radio transient (stellar flare, active galactic nucleus, microlensing of a background source, etc.) There's also nothing that could distinguish it from a satellite passing through the telescope field of view. All in all, it's relatively uninteresting from a SETI standpoint.But, of course, it's been announced to the media. Reporters won't have the background to know it's not interesting. Because the media has it, and since this business runs on media, everyone will look at it. ATA is looking at it. I assume Breakthrough will look at it. Someone will look at it with Arecibo, and we'll be along for the ride. And I'll check the SETI@home database around that position. And we'll all find nothing. It's not our first time at this rodeo, so we know how it works. ID: 1813506 ·

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Message 1813559 - Posted: 29 Aug 2016, 19:54:46 UTC - in response to Message 1813539. Thanks for the expected information. I wonder if the person announcing needs funding? I shouldn't be so cynical I suppose.



:) Capitalize on this good fortune, one word can bring you round ... changes. :)Capitalize on this good fortune, one word can bring you round ... changes. ID: 1813559 ·

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Joined: 28 May 99Posts: 274Credit: 6,936,182RAC: 0 Message 1813573 - Posted: 29 Aug 2016, 20:09:56 UTC

Still holding out for the Moon Farside array... heh. If you don't touch it, you can't break it.

; Yeah, well, when I got into this 17 years ago I was already pretty sure we weren't gonna 'find ET' with an antenna at the bottom of our atmosphere.Still holding out for the Moon Farside array... heh.If you don't touch it, you can't break it. ID: 1813573 ·

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Joined: 5 Sep 12Posts: 4483Credit: 2,084,789RAC: 3 Message 1813586 - Posted: 29 Aug 2016, 20:30:14 UTC

Last modified: 29 Aug 2016, 20:38:58 UTC So when are you supposed to believe that an intelligent signal could be present in a work unit?



There are probably more than a billion individual results in the Seti@home master database containing the results of workunits being processed at Arecibo, as well as a couple of other places.



Make a best guess, if you will, but for now I am left with either horizontal bars as the result of possible RFI, or even the smiling face in the result graphic.



The letters of the ASCII alphabet are making up the words we are using when we communicate with each other.



Still I am not able to speak or communicate with Dr. Eric if such a thing was ever happening because of different native languages.



Nice to meet you, sir. How are you doing?



Sad to say, this is in fact how it is.



A quick look at the pages before doing some necessary business for living does not give any mentioning of this as being a project as such, even though this should be implied by means of where it belongs and is a part of.



Rather it is still only a scientific experiment.



Any teamwork here, or possible interaction when it comes to a couple of things?



Definitely no.



I am wondering how many are running the Seti@home client and whether anything could be done outside the lab.



Please do not forget the relationship between users and management.



Possibly Julie Andrews could perform "Song of Music", but most likely I am not able to do the same.



If this is supposed to be a project, this is how it is supposed to be done.



Forgot buying the coffee and I carried to much in the plastic bags.



I am off for now before it gets too late. ID: 1813586 ·

Eric Korpela

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Message 1813608 - Posted: 29 Aug 2016, 21:34:47 UTC - in response to Message 1813586.



It is persistent. It appears at the same spot in the sky in multiple observations.



It only comes from one spot in the sky.



If we reobserve the target, the signal is still there.

We believe a signal when



Things that add to believability



Its frequency/period/delay does not correspond to known interference.



Its Doppler Drift rate indicates that it is exactly frequency stable in the frame of the center of mass of the solar system



Its properties (bandwidth, chirp rate, encoding) indicate intelligent origin.





Unfortunately the observing method used by the Russian team does not permit many of these things to be determine. 1. The signal was not persistent. 2. The signal was gone when the target was reobserved. 3. The signal frequency/period/delay cannot be determined. 4. The signal Doppler drift rate is unknown. 5. Many sources of interference, including satellites, are present in the observing band. @SETIEric



ID: 1813608 ·

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Joined: 24 Jun 05Posts: 1Credit: 685,148RAC: 11 Message 1813616 - Posted: 29 Aug 2016, 22:07:17 UTC - in response to Message 1813506.

Last modified: 29 Aug 2016, 22:16:14 UTC If it is "announced" in the media, it's probably wrong. Ye canna expect people who barely passed as english majors to credibly parse a story related to SCIENCE!



Wow. Only one post since 2005. How did I miss posting to SETI@Home for a decade. ANd actually, I've really truly been a member since 1998 or so. ID: 1813616 ·

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Message 1813618 - Posted: 29 Aug 2016, 22:23:48 UTC



Isn't it also strange that the news is coming out now, pretty close to the "WOW" Aug. 15th anniversary considering that the Russians sat on the news for over a year, which in itself adds to the dubiousness (independent confirmation should be almost immediate.) In other words, then, it's a lot like the very un-"WOW" signal which was never reobserved or confirmed as well as missing other essential criteria applied to the SET@Home signals.Isn't it also strange that the news is coming out now, pretty close to the "WOW" Aug. 15th anniversary considering that the Russians sat on the news for over a year, which in itself adds to the dubiousness (independent confirmation should be almost immediate.) ID: 1813618 ·

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Message 1813625 - Posted: 29 Aug 2016, 22:51:53 UTC - in response to Message 1813618. @SETIEric



I wouldn't put it in the same category as the Wow! signal. The Wow! signal was narrow band, and because of that, more likely to indicate intelligence than this event. ID: 1813625 ·

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Message 1813646 - Posted: 30 Aug 2016, 0:04:32 UTC - in response to Message 1813643. @SETIEric



It may have taken them that long to finish analyzing the data. Like most people, I doubt they get paid to do SETI. This is probably a side project for people working more than full time on other things. ID: 1813646 ·

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Message 1813652 - Posted: 30 Aug 2016, 0:16:19 UTC - in response to Message 1813646.

Last modified: 30 Aug 2016, 0:18:49 UTC Like most people, I doubt they get paid to do SETI.

They did not. {The main target for this telescope is active galaxies kernels, quasars}

At least when I asked one of RATAN-600 operators few weeks ago about SETI and interactions with Milner's program she answered so. And did not mention this discovery also so it's not too wide-spreaded news there locally.



But the real question is - why we did not take RATAN 600 data for analyse through SETI@home? What prevent this? Were attempts to establish collaboration made? SETI apps news

We're not gonna fight them. We're gonna transcend them. They did not. {The main target for this telescope is active galaxies kernels, quasars}At least when I asked one of RATAN-600 operators few weeks ago about SETI and interactions with Milner's program she answered so. And did not mention this discovery also so it's not too wide-spreaded news there locally.But the real question is - why we did not take RATAN 600 data for analyse through SETI@home? What prevent this? Were attempts to establish collaboration made?We're not gonna fight them. We're gonna transcend them. ID: 1813652 ·

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Message 1813656 - Posted: 30 Aug 2016, 0:39:35 UTC - in response to Message 1813652.

Last modified: 30 Aug 2016, 0:42:01 UTC



Regarding contacts there, I don't have any contacts there as of now. I'll probably meet some of them for the first time at the end of next month at the IAA meeting. @SETIEric



It's an interesting idea. This biggest issue would be a data recorder capable of recording baseband data and whatever the bandwidth of their widest receiver, preferably in a format like guppi raw. The front end electronics (analog+ADC) would probably be more expensive than the back end (PCs+GPUs).Regarding contacts there, I don't have any contacts there as of now. I'll probably meet some of them for the first time at the end of next month at the IAA meeting. ID: 1813656 ·

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Joined: 28 Jul 16Posts: 1Credit: 1,296RAC: 0 Message 1813713 - Posted: 30 Aug 2016, 5:23:23 UTC - in response to Message 1813506. It's a bad habit to doubt things routinely though. Although I do understand the situation. I think it's also a good thing that the media and other news sources keep public eyes and minds on such ideas. It keeps hopes up and wild imaginations at play,because oneday we will discover life and its almost guaranteed we will doubt what we have found because we have gotten so used to it. ID: 1813713 ·

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Message 1813735 - Posted: 30 Aug 2016, 7:29:05 UTC - in response to Message 1813656.

Last modified: 30 Aug 2016, 7:31:22 UTC It's an interesting idea. This biggest issue would be a data recorder capable of recording baseband data and whatever the bandwidth of their widest receiver, preferably in a format like guppi raw. The front end electronics (analog+ADC) would probably be more expensive than the back end (PCs+GPUs).



Regarding contacts there, I don't have any contacts there as of now. I'll probably meet some of them for the first time at the end of next month at the IAA meeting.

What I know for now that all observations are stored and retrievable through internet (of course, if access provided). Regarding bandwidth - they have few different wave length ranges receivers (though as I understood only one particular range can be used at a time; also, some of them completely abandoned now due to advance of cell phones in that area :/ ).

What could be bad for us is that data stored after initial filtration that takes into account instrumental profile and maybe some noise filtering too. Perhaps we would prefer raw data to make own filtering.



There are few different groups (from different institutions) operate telescope so this event has own advantage - you will be able to meet those who interested in SETI at least :)



Please try to explore possibility of cooperation further.

RATAN 600 is world largest radio-telescope of its type and still usable decpite of substantial non-repairable damage it had over time.



Maybe some funding from Milner's Breakthrough Listen funding program could be arranged to benefit both SETI and telescope infrastructure.

Please try to achieve this! SETI apps news

We're not gonna fight them. We're gonna transcend them. What I know for now that all observations are stored and retrievable through internet (of course, if access provided). Regarding bandwidth - they have few different wave length ranges receivers (though as I understood only one particular range can be used at a time; also, some of them completely abandoned now due to advance of cell phones in that area :/ ).What could be bad for us is that data stored after initial filtration that takes into account instrumental profile and maybe some noise filtering too. Perhaps we would prefer raw data to make own filtering.There are few different groups (from different institutions) operate telescope so this event has own advantage - you will be able to meet those who interested in SETI at least :)Please try to explore possibility of cooperation further.RATAN 600 is world largest radio-telescope of its type and still usable decpite of substantial non-repairable damage it had over time.Maybe some funding from Milner's Breakthrough Listen funding program could be arranged to benefit both SETI and telescope infrastructure.Please try to achieve this!We're not gonna fight them. We're gonna transcend them. ID: 1813735 ·

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Joined: 5 Jun 99Posts: 1Credit: 11,219,298RAC: 32 Message 1813751 - Posted: 30 Aug 2016, 10:45:39 UTC Yes, I'm sure that's what your Romulan Overlords forced you to say! (Wink, Wink) ID: 1813751 ·