qxc Profile Blog Joined May 2009 United States 550 Posts Last Edited: 2012-02-18 04:21:43 #1



Summary: The ghost change negatively affects how ghosts work in scenarios besides vs. Tier 3 Zerg for no real reason. Instead of changing Ghost damage to be 25 +25 to Psionic it could be changed it to be 50 base damage minus some amount to massive. This still addresses the Zerg tier 3 issue, gives ghosts a better chance vs. infestors and keeps the rest of the situations where ghosts might be used in tact.



qxc vs. Puma casted by Husky featuring ghosts



Maybe you've heard. Maybe you havn't. Patch 1.4.3 has been announced and due to a tweaking of numbers ghosts may be put into the ground before they've even learned to crawl. While ghosts are indeed being used TvZ all the time, they would no longer be potentially viable in many other situations after said change.



So what's the change?

Snipe currently does 45 damage.

After 1.4.3 Snipe will do 25 +25 to Psionic units



Why?

Blizzard is changing this to reduce the strength of mass ghost armies vs. zerg in the late game - something that seems reasonable.



So what's the problem?

Snipe is currently good at killing things besides tier 3 zerg but if this change goes through they wouldn't be any longer. This would take a generally versatile unit vs. bio and make it an extremely specialized anti caster unit. So let's talk about what is even snipable.



Things you can snipe

Marine

Marauder

Ghost

Reaper

Zealot

High Templar

Dark Templar

Zergling

Baneling

Roach

Hydralisk

Mutalisk

Queen

Infestor

Corruptor

Broodlord

Ultralisk

Workers



What units would you reasonably want to snipe (Where 3-4 snipes makes the ghost roughly pay for itself or where snipe is a good response as in the case of broodlord/viking)











Things you want to snipe

Marine

Marauder

Reaper

Zealot

High Templar

Dark Templar

Baneling

Hydralisk

Mutalisk

Infestor

Corruptor

Broodlord

Ultralisk

Workers







You can see that basically all terran bio is vulnerable to snipe as well as some specific units from zerg. The most notable are banelings and mutalisks.



Now separate into 2 groups - post patch - those that would take less damage and those that would take more.



Less

marine

marauder

reaper

zealot

baneling

hydralisk

mutalisk

corruptor

broodlord

ultralisk

workers



More

Infestor

High Templar

Dark Templar







This isn't just a small nerf being proposed. It's almost a 50% reduction in damage. It'd be like if marines now did 4 base damage. It's a big decrease and any unit that would take 25 damage instead of the old 45 wouldn't be worth sniping anymore. The ghost just wouldn't be cost efficient.



Herein lies the problem. This change affects a lot more than just tier 3 Zerg. All of a sudden ghosts are not really cost efficient at all vs. anything that isn't psionic. This change would ruin possible innovation and uses for snipe in other situations.







Cool Situations before



One shotting banelings with snipe to protect your bio clump - not possible after the change



Using snipe to help deal with overwhelming number of zealots after the main army has been EMP'd



Using snipe to fend off muta harrass - again. 25 damage per shot means 5 snipes vs. just 3. Plus that assumes you're even able to click the same muta 5 times.



My personal favorite: opening fast ghosts TvT and using snipe to one shot marines - again not possible after the change







Have we seen these situations before? Not really. Maybe once? Maybe almost never, but the point is that if Blizzard changes Ghosts in the proposed way we won't. Not now, not ever. This change kills potential innovation and interesting play. But the ghost vs. Tier 3 Zerg relationship can be fixed while keeping the ghost in tact in other situations.



Instead of 25 +25 to Psionic make ghosts do 50 base damage with some reduced amount vs. massive. You still get the reduced damage vs. Ultralisks and Broodlords and Ghosts can still 2 shot snipe infestors to help compensate a bit for the reduced damage. A reduction vs. massive wouldn't negatively affect every other situation where snipe could be useful.



Whether 25 damage is too big of a nerf or not is an argument for another blog. My primary argument is that it should be a subtraction vs. massive and not a + vs. psionic so that ghosts remain useful in other situations.



A final note of consideration against the proposed change:



Progamers play this game for a living. We practice everyday perfecting and refining strategies - strategies which rely on the current balance. Every unnecessary change makes it harder for us to perfect the strategies we practice so frequently.



Now we just need Blizzard to know. Show your friends. Tweet about it. Discuss it on Reddit. If Blizzard hears us talking they will listen. We just need to be loud enough. Please, don't let Blizzard kill ghosts. They've barely had a chance to live.







Summary: + Show Spoiler + Maybe you've heard. Maybe you havn't. Patch 1.4.3 has been announced and due to a tweaking of numbers ghosts may be put into the ground before they've even learned to crawl. While ghosts are indeed being used TvZ all the time, they would no longer be potentially viable in many other situations after said change.Snipe currently does 45 damage.After 1.4.3 Snipe will do 25 +25 to Psionic unitsBlizzard is changing this to reduce the strength of mass ghost armies vs. zerg in the late game - something that seems reasonable.Snipe is currently good at killing things besides tier 3 zerg but if this change goes through they wouldn't be any longer. This would take a generally versatile unit vs. bio and make it an extremely specialized anti caster unit. So let's talk about what is even snipable.MarineMarauderGhostReaperZealotHigh TemplarDark TemplarZerglingBanelingRoachHydraliskMutaliskQueenInfestorCorruptorBroodlordUltraliskWorkersWhat units would you reasonably want to snipe (Where 3-4 snipes makes the ghost roughly pay for itself or where snipe is a good response as in the case of broodlord/viking)MarineMarauderReaperZealotHigh TemplarDark TemplarBanelingHydraliskMutaliskInfestorCorruptorBroodlordUltraliskWorkersYou can see that basically all terran bio is vulnerable to snipe as well as some specific units from zerg. The most notable are banelings and mutalisks.Now separate into 2 groups - post patch - those that would take less damage and those that would take more.marinemarauderreaperzealotbanelinghydraliskmutaliskcorruptorbroodlordultraliskworkersInfestorHigh TemplarDark TemplarThis isn't just a small nerf being proposed. It's almost aIt'd be like if marines now did 4 base damage. It's a big decrease and any unit that would take 25 damage instead of the old 45 wouldn't be worth sniping anymore. The ghost just wouldn't be cost efficient.Herein lies the problem. This change affects a lot more than just tier 3 Zerg. All of a sudden ghosts are not really cost efficient at all vs. anything that isn't psionic.One shotting banelings with snipe to protect your bio clump - not possible after the changeUsing snipe to help deal with overwhelming number of zealots after the main army has been EMP'dUsing snipe to fend off muta harrass - again. 25 damage per shot means 5 snipes vs. just 3. Plus that assumes you're even able to click the same muta 5 times.My personal favorite: opening fast ghosts TvT and using snipe to one shot marines - again not possible after the changeHave we seen these situations before? Not really. Maybe once? Maybe almost never, but the point is that if Blizzard changes Ghosts in the proposed way we won't. Not now, not ever. This change kills potential innovation and interesting play. But the ghost vs. Tier 3 Zerg relationship can be fixed while keeping the ghost in tact in other situations.. You still get the reduced damage vs. Ultralisks and Broodlords and Ghosts can still 2 shot snipe infestors to help compensate a bit for the reduced damage. A reduction vs. massive wouldn't negatively affect every other situation where snipe could be useful.Whether 25 damage is too big of a nerf or not is an argument for another blog. My primary argument is that it should be a subtraction vs. massive and not a + vs. psionic so that ghosts remain useful in other situations.A final note of consideration against the proposed change:Progamers play this game for a living. We practice everyday perfecting and refining strategies - strategies which rely on the current balance. Every unnecessary change makes it harder for us to perfect the strategies we practice so frequently.Now we just need Blizzard to know. Show your friends. Tweet about it. Discuss it on Reddit. If Blizzard hears us talking they will listen. We just need to be loud enough. Please, don't let Blizzard kill ghosts. They've barely had a chance to live. Progamer Designer of Aeon's End