Welcome to Jellyneo.net!

Pick your news: Neopets News | Crossword | JN Updates | Daily Puzzle | Charity Corner

Class Action Lawsuit Against Neopets Posted by Dave

Posted on February 17, 2016, 7:04 pm NST

UPDATE 2/27: If you haven't already, please fill out our survey below. We will be closing it off in the next few days and publishing the results! (So please do not include personal information like usernames, emails, etc.! We will be going through entries and clearing those with personal information before release.)



UPDATE 2/24: Jumpstart has officially added lawyers to the case to defend their side.



UPDATE 2/22: The class has officially been certified by the judge presiding over the case. This means that the court has determined the definition of the class (Premium users) to be sufficient and not overreaching. The judge has also ordered the John Doe to provide more reasoning as to why his identity should be concealed.



UPDATE 2/18: As of February 18th, the judge presiding over the case has determined that determining the validity of the class definition (aka Premium users since 2010) is able to proceed without oral arguments. It seems like the next step in the case now is for the judge to determine if the class definition is valid, after which the case will proceed from there.







You can read some layman's overviews of the suit at the links below (and we've included one with a bit more legalese if any Lawyerbots-in-training want to take a gander):



Neopets Faces $5M Class Action Over Automatically Renewing Memberships

Neopets Latest To Face Class-Action Lawsuit Over California Automatic Renewal Law

PDF copy of John Doe v. Neopets, Inc. (the original case filing)

A Timeline of John Doe v. Neopets, Inc. et al (not in layman's terms)

As of early December, Jumpstart had failed to respond to the suit. The only updates past that have been the plaintiff attempting to certify the class (which consists of all the people the lawsuit affects, aka Premium members). We'll keep you posted as the suit progresses.



WARNING: Do not discuss the lawsuit on Neopets. Your Neoboard topic will probably be locked promptly (it's happened in the past, and we've had a couple reports of it happening again since this news post). We'd also advise not linking directly to this news post.



Over the past 6 months, many Neopians have encountered several issues with the paid aspects of Neopets. Broken Premium memberships, missing Neocash, and most recently, even the Ghoul Catchers app has been glitching when purchasing boosters.



In light of the lawsuit Neopets is facing, we'd like to get a better sense of what issues are still outstanding, versus what has been resolved. We've put together a short survey for you to fill out if you're currently experiencing any issues with a paid aspect of Neopets.



Take the Survey Now »

We'll report on the results in a week or so after collecting data. Check out the comments below to discuss the lawsuit, along with any Premium-woes you may have been facing lately. Follow @jellyneo on Twitter for all the latest #Neopets news! If you haven't already, please fill out our survey below. We will be closing it off in the next few days and publishing the results! (So please do not include personal information like usernames, emails, etc.! We will be going through entries and clearing those with personal information before release.)Jumpstart has officially added lawyers to the case to defend their side.The class has officially been certified by the judge presiding over the case. This means that the court has determined the definition of the class (Premium users) to be sufficient and not overreaching. The judge has also ordered the John Doe to provide more reasoning as to why his identity should be concealed.As of February 18th, the judge presiding over the case has determined that determining the validity of the class definition (aka Premium users since 2010) is able to proceed without oral arguments. It seems like the next step in the case now is for the judge to determine if the class definition is valid, after which the case will proceed from there.Jumpstart is currently facing a class action lawsuit in the United States. The suit claims that Neopets does not follow certain California business laws related to subscription services and how they may renew. The case has no resolution yet, but if you've been a Premium member at any time since 2010 and live in the US, you may be eligible for compensation if Jumpstart loses the lawsuit.You can read some layman's overviews of the suit at the links below (and we've included one with a bit more legalese if any Lawyerbots-in-training want to take a gander):As of early December, Jumpstart had failed to respond to the suit. The only updates past that have been the plaintiff attempting to certify the class (which consists of all the people the lawsuit affects, aka Premium members). We'll keep you posted as the suit progresses.Do not discuss the lawsuit on Neopets. Your Neoboard topic will probably be locked promptly (it's happened in the past, and we've had a couple reports of it happening again since this news post). We'd also advise not linking directly to this news post.Over the past 6 months, many Neopians have encountered several issues with the paid aspects of Neopets. Broken Premium memberships, missing Neocash, and most recently, even the Ghoul Catchers app has been glitching when purchasing boosters.In light of the lawsuit Neopets is facing, we'd like to get a better sense of what issues are still outstanding, versus what has been resolved. We've put together a short survey for you to fill out if you're currently experiencing any issues with a paid aspect of Neopets.We'll report on the results in a week or so after collecting data. Check out the comments below to discuss the lawsuit, along with any Premium-woes you may have been facing lately.

There are 120 comments below. Add yours!

kat , February 17, 2016 7:14 PM NST See my membership ran out on the 9th of feb and since then i have been trying not to have money in my account that can be hit cause i have cancelled my premium but i know of people being charged crazy amounts after cancelling. I have been checking my bank everyday just incase but it seems im in the clear. But still i dont feel like i should have to worry that i will be charged $70 AUSD+ for a service i have cancelled

labpartnerincrime , February 17, 2016 7:27 PM NST Cancelled my membership a year ago right after renewing. (I always did that anyway to make sure it wouldn't sneak up on me). After deciding not to renew, I stopped the PayPal recurring subscription as well.



A week ago my premium was up. Got 2 emails thanking me for renewing.



No transaction ever occured and my account still has Premium (or at the very least, phantom Premium). Wat.

purplebin , February 17, 2016 7:34 PM NST My issue is minor compared to most, but I was charged for a month and never got anything. I filled out the survey.

jawsch - JN Staff , February 17, 2016 7:39 PM NST I've yet to experience a single issue with Premium or Neocash...

brynchilla , February 17, 2016 7:41 PM NST

They make it sound like it was such tiny little font way down at the bottom.

It was normal sized font.

Do you yell at all people who make fine print?

If there's text and you're paying for something, read it! This is ridiculous.They make it sound like it was such tiny little font way down at the bottom.It was normal sized font.Do you yell at all people who make fine print?If there's text and you're paying for something, read it!

lupe691 , February 17, 2016 7:44 PM NST Mine just renewed on the 8th. I had a lot of trouble updating the credit card attached to my account, the Manage Membership page wasn't working. I finally did get it switched, and set it to charge my card--and it took the money out of my PayPal instead. Still waiting to see if a charge shows up on my credit card as well, I hope not. In the mean time, it caused some trouble with my PayPal as I had that money set to pay for something else. Not a big problem, but very annoying. I don't see much of a future for Neo if they can't even keep their paid features working correctly.

brynchilla , February 17, 2016 7:44 PM NST Repsonding to the three things mentioned here:

http://www.socalinternetlawyer.com/neopets-class-action-lawsuit-california-automatic-renewal-law/



1. It was clearly stated at the bottom. The words were quite clear. You should make sure you read everything. Like when taking a test, you should always flip the page over to see if there is anything on the back.



2. When you buy Premium, you already agree to be charged automatically. It's part of number 1.



3. ...See number one.



People just don't like reading.

And when they're bit in the butt for not spending a minute to read, they get angry.

purplebin , February 17, 2016 7:49 PM NST The basis of the suit isn't even really related to the problems most of us are having, unfortunately.

superbeans , February 17, 2016 7:49 PM NST I honestly don't think this is going to go anywhere, as the lawsuit doesn't address right issue with the right wording (which can make all the difference in court). The issue is NOT that people were unaware that it would auto-renew. It's clearly stated and if you didn't read that, that's on you. The issue was people cancelling in the time frame you're supposed to, and still continuing to be charged, and being continually charged but having your benefits taken away, and JS providing no service or attempt to refund people for months.



I was one of the ones who cancelled my yearly membership after my budget stopped allowing it, cancelling it 2 months before my renewal date through the premium portal on the site, and getting all the usual confirmation information you're given when you cancel. My premium renewed anyway, putting my bank account into overdraft, bouncing a couple of my bills, and pretty much wrecking havoc on my finances, as the unexpected charge

superbeans , February 17, 2016 7:51 PM NST caused numerous NSF fees to be charged. TNT ignored me, so I escalated to paypal. they "kindly" refunded my premium payment, but I was still stuck with $100+ of NSF payments because Jumpstart took out money that I didn't authorize and didn't budget for

dave - JN Staff , February 17, 2016 7:59 PM NST Yea, the lawsuit itself is a little dubious. However, fingers crossed that this might force Jumpstart to focus more on fixing the real problems folks are still experiencing.

kelsyjones , February 17, 2016 8:00 PM NST The only "issue" I've had with Premium so far is that I got two of last month's premium collectible item (I discarded the extra).

lupe691 , February 17, 2016 8:03 PM NST Oh...I also have an unlimited number of Premium scratchcards. Hardly much of a problem, except I'm worried if I accidentally use too many they'll think I'm cheating. This once again has nothing to do with the lawsuit, but maybe now they'll realize just how many things are BROKEN and try to fix them.

lucy_haha , February 17, 2016 8:22 PM NST Just showing up to say I'm the one who gave a LONG LONG LONG nonsense in the detail field regrading to the NC problem. But really, that has been a long term problem and I hate how they treat us. I think JN should know about it as I don't think many people here are aware of the issue, it's mostly only known in our community.

inkpot , February 17, 2016 8:24 PM NST the only "problem" (if you can even call it that) is that i bought 1 month of premium back in sept. or oct. (for that blue moon premium collectible) and i still have it 'til this day (though i am not getting the premium collectors items/cards).



(and no i'm not being charged for it. i bought the membership with a prepaid visa that had only 9 or 10$ left on it, so...)



should i still take the survey? i'm guessing that had i not used a prepaid card i'd still be getting charged for it. is this what the "phantom membership" is?



sorry, i just woke up. x(

mogster , February 17, 2016 8:27 PM NST I tried to buy $5 in NC. I got a weird blip on the last page and only had 160 NC. Figured it would take months to get any answer so I didn't bother with a ticket. It just seemed more trouble than it was worth. This was around when they were doing the sales, I needed a few Basic items.

saspree , February 17, 2016 8:33 PM NST Watch neopets take JN off the recommended fansites after this. hahahaha. I posted boards vaguely hinting at this lawsuit when it came out and TNT deleted all of them. Never got a warning, though.



I haven't personally had any pay-to-play problems. But SO many others are that I'm no longer purchasing NC (I used to buy $100+ in NC a month).

myflickyflapp , February 17, 2016 8:59 PM NST Submitted my response!

crowbar , February 17, 2016 9:00 PM NST In December of 2014, I went to purchase $30 of NC. When I submitted my payment, an error message appeared, prompting me to resubmit. So, I resubmitted the payment information and was charged twice for the $30 purchase I intended to make. I also received two receipts. The response I received basically said that I was not entitled to a refund because NC is always nonrefundable (although it was an error on the Neopets website - no fault of mine) and that the only way I could get my money back is if I agreed to forfeit my entire Neopets account. I resubmitted the ticket, only to get the same response. I contacted the Jumpstart website and contacted their customer service, and was never responded to at all.



I've played Neopets since 2002 and obviously, I value my account so I would never agree to have my account frozen over $30. I was deeply hurt by the response I got from Neopets and Jumpstart on the matter - so much so that I decided to cancel my Premium membership (which I also ha

madeline , February 17, 2016 10:15 PM NST Really wish they didn't fire most of their staff that actually cared about the site and it's players. There's only a small handful left now. They need to up their customer service x10, fix/remake KQ, and deal with all the bugs.

biediep , February 17, 2016 10:17 PM NST I've been Premium since 2008 and I haven't had any real problems, at least not related to Premium. But I've heard plenty about people who cancelled and were renewed (and charged for it) anyway, and stuff like that.



Haven't bought NC in over a year, maybe even 2 years except for once through Paypal last week and that went fine, thankfully.

biediep , February 17, 2016 10:18 PM NST But if people in the US get compensated I'd be really annoyed. Like I said, been Premium for 8 years non-stop but just because I live in Europe I'd get nothing? That'd really tick me off.

lucy_haha , February 17, 2016 10:50 PM NST biediep, Ikr?

Thank about us, Chinese players had NEVER got any compensation on all the NC/NC items they owned us, in yearS.

jcdiva7 , February 17, 2016 11:21 PM NST technically, JS should settle and then file suit with their e-wallet provider because a lot of the issues occured when they switched over...but that is just my opinion

recklesse , February 17, 2016 11:44 PM NST This isn't going to go anywhere is it?



All the legitimate issues/problems they could have picked up on (overcharging/booting off paid-up members/not dealing with tickets in a timely manner) and they pick a non-issue!!

recklesse , February 17, 2016 11:53 PM NST JumpStart have known about this case for months. People have been posting about it all over the Neopets facebook page.



I think it was a contributing factor in their new policy of not cancelling all perks when membership lapses. That's as far as they've got with 'fixing' the issues as far as I can see.

recklesse , February 18, 2016 12:02 AM NST Is there anywhere we can see what the survey questions are without taking the survey?



I don't have any problems (since I've not been spending real money on site since November 2014) but I have been following the whole fiasco via the boards.



The 'ticket response waiting board' on the HC seems to have been quite successful in getting responses for people with account access issues. A similar board for NC/Premium issues was largely ignored, unfortunately.



http://www.neopets.com/~Hiradel has some useful tips for people with NC issues.

recklesse , February 18, 2016 12:20 AM NST Reason: Access from your area has been temporarily limited for security reasons



^ That's what I get from the first link in the main post. I'm guessing the site isn't available to those of us outside the US.

lucy_haha , February 18, 2016 12:36 AM NST Weird, cause I'm totally out of US but I can do the survey.

recklesse , February 18, 2016 12:42 AM NST Not the survey Lucy, the 'Neopets faces .. class action.. ' thing.

recklesse , February 18, 2016 12:49 AM NST And with the survey - I can only see the first question unless I have an issue to report. The next question won't show without me putting in an answer.

o_ya_toe_knee_is_gr8 , February 18, 2016 1:16 AM NST ) The only NC related issue I've ever had lately was when I bought the Black Friday sale GBCs, I GAINED NC which probably no one would complain about but that could be taking advantage of a glitch. I sent a ticket about it plus for Premium, both had a robot response but 2 days before my Premium renewal date, my Premium issue was resolved (not sure if I got ALL scratches, still haven't picked the right faction). I wasn't charged (I want to) but have some phantom access to few perks. I've only had issues with Premium. None whatsoever with NC cards (I don't buy directly from Neopets, no boxes) The only NC related issue I've ever had lately was when I bought the Black Friday sale GBCs, I GAINED NC which probably no one would complain about but that could be taking advantage of a glitch. I sent a ticket about it plus for Premium, both had a robot response but 2 days before my Premium renewal date, my Premium issue was resolved (not sure if I got ALL scratches, still haven't picked the right faction). I wasn't charged (I want to) but have some phantom access to few perks.

recklesse , February 18, 2016 1:31 AM NST Okay, I can view the questions if I select an issue. Hope it isn't counting me for the stats.

recklesse , February 18, 2016 2:32 AM NST As for the 'phantom' premium; that's a deliberate policy decision as confirmed in http://www.neopets.com/ntimes/index.phtml?section=editorial&week=714 - 5th question.



It may have been a response to the legal process or a way to reduce the monthly deluge of tickets from people who were being booted off premium even though their subscription wasn't due to expire for months.



'a couple of the premium privileges' seems to be EVERYTHING except for the things controlled by a secondary script/s (Space Faerie Scratchcards, NC premium monthly collectible, Premium Monthly Neodeck card).



Currently there are people not getting the secondary perks because:

1/ their membership expired (intentionally).

2/ their membership lapsed (auto-renew is broken).

3/ they were booted off premium prematurely.

4/ they were booted off premium months ago, got it back (via ticket or resubscribed) but weren't put back on the secondary script/s.

5/ were put back on the seco

recklesse , February 18, 2016 2:33 AM NST 5/ were put back on the secondary script/s but have been booted off those again.

cat , February 18, 2016 3:14 AM NST I don't buy Premium so I can't say anything about that, but I've had no issue with redeeming NC cards. I know others have though, I'm not sure whether I'm just lucky or what.



Yeah, this seems like a stupid issue to sue over. There are legitimate issues going on with the auto-renew script being wonky, so I could understand if someone was suing JumpStart for charging them for a service that they specifically canceled or set not to auto-renew. But based on the wording that's not what this is about.

daughters_ofthe_moon , February 18, 2016 3:19 AM NST

I get tons of bonus SF cards and have reported it twice, once to Neo just before changeover and was told I could use them, then again a year later to JS just in case when it was still happening. Both times I was told we can use the bonus cards we're given without worrying. I still worry @lupe691I get tons of bonus SF cards and have reported it twice, once to Neo just before changeover and was told I could use them, then again a year later to JS just in case when it was still happening. Both times I was told we can use the bonus cards we're given without worrying. I still worry

cinnamon_girl , February 18, 2016 3:39 AM NST I don't understand this lawsuit, are businesses in California not allowed to automatically renew membership? And wasn't it Viacoms business in 2010. so are they automatically off the hook because they sold it even though they caused it? I always thought it was very clear it would automatically renew every membership unless you cancel it. And I'm Dutch! Premium and NC are having lots of issues now (I barely ever have any issues, I guess I'm lucky?) which I thought the lawsuit was about.



I wish JS would just put quite a few programmers on the Premium/NC thing until it's solved, this going on for months is not only bothering the players, but surely also harming their income?

herdy - JN Staff , February 18, 2016 5:16 AM NST A couple of things about the lawsuit:



The fine print being too small/out of the way is a shaky claim. That's true. But the other issues, frankly, are solid. There is no affirmative popup when you sign up for premium - that's seemingly CA law. It's a silly law, sure, but it is the law. The third part, about the FAQs not working, is so solid that it isn't even true - FAQs have not worked for many users AT ALL for years.

Compared to users being triple charged and stealth cancelled, or Neopets outright stealing other people's art, sure, maybe these aren't big issues. But the law is the law.



Important date is tomorrow, FYI, as that's when the hearing is set for. The final info link Dave gave tends to retroactively update, though, so don't expect anything new on it until some time in the new week.

topaz644 , February 18, 2016 5:23 AM NST Lawsuit aside...what is the root of their cash services problem? Is it the e-wallet provider? Bad coding? I've been flabbergasted that they seem unable to FIX this stuff.



Are there similar problems on their Dragon site?

recklesse , February 18, 2016 5:42 AM NST Topaz, that's the big question really. We don't know exactly what's causing the problems and I don't know if JS know either (could be why they haven't got it fixed yet).



Some things that are known: the e-wallet is a big company (Emergent Payments). I've heard it has some pretty big-name clients (facebook, yahoo) and they don't seem to have these problems. JumpStart's other games, on the other hand, do seem to be suffering from similar problems (judging from the posts on JumpStart's facebook wall), so I would guess most of the problems originate at JumpStart somewhere. I don't know about School of Dragons specifically.

herdy - JN Staff , February 18, 2016 5:43 AM NST It is across all JS games. The leak of their bug management system the other week showed that School of Dragons customers are having a /lot/ of problems with it.

recklesse , February 18, 2016 5:54 AM NST Ah, so School of Dragons (unsurprisingly) is also affected.



Thanks for clarifying about the other elements of the lawsuit. Neither of the two links I can actually read (the first blocks my country and the 4th won't let me see anything without creating an account there), mentions those points (and neither is very well written).

baby_lovey , February 18, 2016 6:17 AM NST I wonder how people's "reimbursement" will affect the site itself. From a financial view point.

lucy_haha , February 18, 2016 6:26 AM NST Ah, so when people (including me) heard about the e-wallet change is deal to old provider went down so the payment problem was not intended by JS, now I see Herdy saying they're using ssaid company's service where FB and such has no problem with them. Also for other JS' games but not FB and such?

That sounds fishy.

lucy_haha , February 18, 2016 6:27 AM NST Woops, for Herdy I meant recklesse.

morganjoisle , February 18, 2016 6:33 AM NST Oh my goodness! I mean - I knew that this was happening sometime in the June/July/over the summer timeframe, and then I recalled sometime in the passed months that this had been happening, but there hadn't been any news in a while so I kind of forgot about it.



I mean, I'm glad that there's finally... well, progress being made... against the whole premium issue... If Jellyneo has a post like this at least that feels like progress. And I didn't realize that the stakes were in the five million range!



My thought on this though is that if the case does go through (whenever it does) Jumpstart isn't going to be able to pay the bill. I guess I better enjoy neopets while it lasts. If nothing else, I don't see the site being run for long by Jumpstart if they have to file for bankruptcy.

morganjoisle , February 18, 2016 6:42 AM NST @lupe691: I don't have unlimited, but I've been getting double this last year. I only scratch every six months or so, though (whenever I join a winning faction and get the obelisk boon).



@inkpot (and I guess everyone): I'm worried about cancelling. I just missed the June e-wallet provider transition with my annual renewal in May. But my fear is that even if I successfully cancel I might still be auto-renewed. I don't think that's in my budget right now, I don't want to keep supporting the site at this point, and my other fear is that if I take safety precautions by blocking payments to Jumpstart or something (because I'm not paying with a pre-paid card) that my account could be held hostage over it (and probably would) if I do get charged.



Well, I hope that I can say goodbye to Super Shop Wizard come May, and that my cancellation doesn't get re-instated as a renewal. P:

morganjoisle , February 18, 2016 6:49 AM NST



@crowbar: *huggles* I've heard of that happening before, but that's an absolutely horribly thing to have to go through. That stings like broken trust, because neopets should be better than that and we all want neopets to be better than a conman selling hissi oil in terms of its morals regarding business practices. We want the site to be better because we know it can be better. A better person. (Even if that sounds a bit weird and rhetorical.) @saspree: That would be worse than when the neopian times was down (and possibly gone forever from what we knew at the time) for four months. Jellyneo's my favourite fan site, and the only one that I guess I feel I can rely on for anything and everything. I could see something like that happening, actually. Neopets can be picky about its reputation, I mean...@crowbar: *huggles* I've heard of that happening before, but that's an absolutely horribly thing to have to go through. That stings like broken trust, because neopets should be better than that and we all want neopets to be better than a conman selling hissi oil in terms of its morals regarding business practices. We want the site to be better because we know it can be better. A better person. (Even if that sounds a bit weird and rhetorical.)

morganjoisle , February 18, 2016 6:55 AM NST @madeline: Key quest isn't at the top of my concerns list, but I agree with you tenfold about the customer service and overall content team. I don't see Jumpstart doing any of that now, but that still is what ought to have happened. *huggles neopets*



@recklesse: For me I see it as that maybe that was the most clear-cut way the filer could go about taking an issue up with neopets. Maybe it's the most non-issue in terms of what other members on the site are dealing with, but the issue that they're filing seems like it is technical enough that it can't be played off as void by the site's terms and conditions. (Which I suspect some other payment issues could be written out as.)

inuyashaohki , February 18, 2016 6:57 AM NST My premium ended before the period in question, but I will say the old TNT did them no favors. I tried to cancel, but they refused to take any form of electronic cancellation notice I sent them, and only allowed cancellation by phone during hours I couldn't call (apparently they can take signups electronically at 4am, but cancellation is a 9-5 affair...). I let it lapse, but they auto-renewed it, so I ended up cancelling the card they had. I rather doubt the "phone only" that I was told by support was true, but I never did find any other option, and that experience is entirely why I don't have premium now.

vellen_ , February 18, 2016 7:33 AM NST The problem is what this suit is covering, how they feel JS isn't communicating that the premium auto renews. I always read "fine print".. plus when I was month to month, I'd get an email reminding me that it will auto renew unless I cancel. Now the lawsuit SHOULD be covering how some people are still being billed after canceling. But it's not.

recklesse , February 18, 2016 7:54 AM NST Now the lawsuit SHOULD be covering how some people are still being billed after canceling.

---------



Yes that, and how some people are being billed and not actually getting their premium activated until their ticket is addressed anything from 2-8 months later, and others are getting booted off premium months before their subscription is due to expire (and again having to wait months for their issue to be looked at).

recklesse , February 18, 2016 7:57 AM NST As far as the NC issues go; I'm fairly sure the UK NC cards are still processing as 5 dollars instead of 5 pounds. They haven't even managed to fix that.

dave - JN Staff , February 18, 2016 7:57 AM NST Just a heads up: do not discuss the lawsuit or this news post on the Neoboards or anywhere else on Neopets. Boards are being locked (as they were in the past), so for your account safety, we advise you not to bring it up.

sp4de , February 18, 2016 8:26 AM NST This really makes no sense. Aside from there being no real grounds for the claim (it is clearly stated it is auto-renewed) why are they going after JS? Premium is still being ran the same way as it has been for years with Viacom. Unless I missed something, this stuff hasn't changed?



I just do not get it. I have been playing Neo for 10 years now and NEVER had any issues like this. The few problems I have encountered have been dealt with swiftly (within a week or two) excluding the activation of a pet color and some customization item fails but those would take more time. Although I am still butthurt on the NC Frame Bonus chaos from years ago. :K

mistyraider , February 18, 2016 8:30 AM NST Thanks for the heads up Dave.



My guess about why this lawsuit -- is that JS has actually broken a specific California law. The other issues with NC cards, e-wallet glitches, bad customer service, etc may not all be covered in one over-arching law. It may be dozens of laws and a whole legal mess to sue over. By doing this lawsuit they certainly get JS's attention (at least I hope they do). Maybe it will get the company to take it's members more seriously. Fix the problems, activate a customer service department that actually provides service. This is not a kids' game. A lawsuit reminds them of that!

cinnamon_girl , February 18, 2016 8:40 AM NST I just checked out the complaint, in which they acknowledge that it says it's a recurring plan a few times before you make the payment, so really it's just people not reading what they're buying. If it didn't say it anywhere, or only in a really weird place I'd be on their side. But this is just stupid.



I thought this might be about one of the many issues going on for a while, and they would've had my complete sympathy, as I really feel bad for people getting charged multiple times, losing premium they're still subscribed to etc.

recklesse , February 18, 2016 8:46 AM NST Premium is still being ran the same way as it has been for years with Viacom.

---------



Considerable changes were made when the subscription service was brought in-house in summer 2012.



Then a whole swathe of disastrous glitches and errors affected a lot of people starting last June when the e-wallet switch and 'facility move' occurred. Scheduling both of those together was, at least. rather unfortunate. If you weren't affected by any of the glitches, count yourself lucky.

cinnamon_girl , February 18, 2016 8:49 AM NST . I just read superbeans comment, that would make much more sense! What I got from reading the complaint was just that they weren't aware it was a recurring payment thingy. Then they really needed to word it differently... Or maybe the lawyer-speak is so sneaky I really can't get what they're trying to say

topaz644 , February 18, 2016 9:06 AM NST If legal action can't address the real problems people are having then it's such a waste. JS has to use resources (money) to deal with this suit that could be used to fix things.



Even the idea that this suit might spur them to better action doesn't wash. I cannot believe they don't want to get this stuff fixed. That's absurd.

recklesse , February 18, 2016 9:08 AM NST Oh, wait! I just looked through this: http://www.socalinternetlawyer.com/california-automatic-renewal-law/



This seems to be a bunch of lawyers with an axe to grind about the over-protective nature of this specific californian law as it stands. Neopets is just the 'latest' in a series of such cases.



That explains a lot.

lalalana124 , February 18, 2016 9:14 AM NST I have a feeling that this lawsuit might be the straw that breaks the camel's back per say. They might shut down the site completely.

kk86 , February 18, 2016 9:33 AM NST "But the other issues, frankly, are solid. There is no affirmative popup when you sign up for premium - that's seemingly CA law. It's a silly law, sure, but it is the law. The third part, about the FAQs not working, is so solid that it isn't even true - FAQs have not worked for many users AT ALL for years.

Compared to users being triple charged and stealth cancelled, or Neopets outright stealing other people's art, sure, maybe these aren't big issues. But the law is the law."

^ This (aside from the "silly" comment)!



Granted I know some of y'all lives center around Neopets hence your stanning but saying what should and shouldn't go to court is a waste of time. This is what's going on regardless if you think the suit is "worthy" and if JS wasn't following the law, they get what they deserve. Deal with it.

recklesse , February 18, 2016 10:16 AM NST Okay, now looking up 'test cases, california automatic renewal law' and lots of stuff is showing up.



They're testing the scope and reach of the law. Cases have already been brought against spotify, hulu and dropbox (among others). I haven't seen details of any outcomes apart from a spotify case which was sent for arbitration).

ummy - JN Staff , February 18, 2016 10:32 AM NST Am I the only one who NEVER gets emails about premium renewals, even when Neopets emails are enabled?

ummy - JN Staff , February 18, 2016 10:35 AM NST I find it interesting the lawsuit does not address the fact specifically that the FAQ on cancelling memberships has been missing, nor any of the issues with premium since July. They also don't explain why the text on the page would not be considered "clear and conspicuous." They definitely are trying to test the law.

ummy - JN Staff , February 18, 2016 10:50 AM NST All the legitimate issues/problems they could have picked up on (overcharging/booting off paid-up members/not dealing with tickets in a timely manner) and they pick a non-issue!!

---

I can't blame them. They can:

A. Have a very strong case (assuming they gathered the right evidence) against the premium issues last year that affected hundreds or thousands within the span of some months, or

B. A chance to recover more than $5 million for 5 years worth of "violations"



If you were a lawyer, which is more worth your time? I also believe A would require a lot of researching on the law firms part. All B takes is signing up for Neopets, signing up for Premium, and some screenshots.

feral_shade , February 18, 2016 10:52 AM NST i haven't had any issues with Premium for the last couple years that I've used the autorenewal feature. Getting to that support phone number can be a real pain though.



I'm tempted to add my name to the plaintiff list because I hate when grievances get swept under the carpet--strength in numbers and all that.



My 2 big worries though are:

Would TNT freeze the accounts of those who participate?

The profits from the site are really low as it is...would legal costs lead to it shutting down (or severely delay major maintenance/updates)?



Lady justice should wield a scale, not a double-edged sword.

ummy - JN Staff , February 18, 2016 11:00 AM NST Would TNT freeze the accounts of those who participate?

---

Because freezing your paying user base, especially many of which are disappointed after recent premium issues, seems like a good idea once you've lost money. /s



Unless you were talking about it on Neo, I don't see anyone getting iced over this. I don't think there's anything to worry about. The important thing here is JS gets the message that more should be done about Premium and NC.

feral_shade , February 18, 2016 11:05 AM NST I get what you're saying, Ummy, about their choice in issues to pursue.

But I think that's a hindsight thing, it'd probably be too late to drop the charges.



In the long run, litigatve actions require a strong level of credibility when dealing with a single business.



Though the issue they chose in itself may not be the most critical or prevalent, I think its success may be very positive:

It would encourage Jumpstart to focus on more serious issues so as to prevent further lawsuits)

It would be used to establish to the judge the character/disposition of the company, so, in future suits, Jumpstart couldn't easily claim that any infractions were 'accidental'

recklesse , February 18, 2016 11:19 AM NST Getting to that support phone number can be a real pain though.

------



That support number was discontinued when the premium package was brought in-house in 2012.



The important thing here is JS gets the message that more should be done about Premium and NC.

---------



This case isn't likely to do that. It is purely an attempt to weigh the letter of the california automatic renewal law against the usual practices of online businesses and see what gives way. Either the law will be watered down or businesses will have to add a heap of extra legal jargon and click to accept the terms boxes to their sign up pages and send out far more specifically worded confirmation emails.



This isn't really about Neopets in particular. They are just being used as a test subject for this specific issue.

ummy - JN Staff , February 18, 2016 11:21 AM NST @feral_shade- If you replaced the word "Jumpstart" with "the Neopets Team", would that change your argument any? I'm just wondering. These supposed violations outlined in the suit happened well before JS bought the site. While I definitely agree they need to focus on issues more, I wouldn't want people to root for this suit because they believe JS deserves it. If they lose over the wording of the automatic subs, it wasn't something intentional anyone at TNT/JS was doing. It wouldn't be fair to JS to lose this suit.



I want to add too, I think a MAJOR flaw in the suit's arguments is that they don't have any screenshots or data prior to the recent Premium page. How can they sue for 5 years worth of alleged violations based off of wording on a page only added a few years ago?

feral_shade , February 18, 2016 11:23 AM NST I hope you're right about the freezing thing. Sometimes people can feel really threatened when you bring a third party to resolve a dispute. It can really shatter rapport.



For example, just recently I went to a doctor to resume treatment for a medical issue that had been diagnosed elsewhere. He and I hit it off really well, and I felt comfortable trusting his judgment. Then, at the end of the appointment, he said that condition would have to monitored for several months before he could treat it--hospital policy. I was just shocked! I mustered up the courage to refer him to X clause of the patients bill of rights. After that I could tell from his tone and body language that it was over--from that point he'd likely do the absolute minimum so he wouldn't have to deal with me, and i'd have to get a different doctor.



My worry about Jumpstart is that they'd make do with the paying customers that are "loyal" and distance themselves from the ones that co

ummy - JN Staff , February 18, 2016 11:29 AM NST This isn't really about Neopets in particular. They are just being used as a test subject for this specific issue.

---

That could be a strong reason if the judge refuses the case. Allowing this case to succeed could set a dangerous precedent. Suddenly there will be more plaintiffs trying to sue websites over automatic renewals with small print, which is common in a LOT of websites.

feral_shade , February 18, 2016 11:31 AM NST you have a good point ummy, I think that's really going to hurt the prosecutor's efforts...because so much time has past



...you and recklesse are probably right...it's probably not going to be some cataclysmic punitive thing. I guess the term "class action suit' just sounds really ominous, lol

ummy - JN Staff , February 18, 2016 11:35 AM NST I absolutely 100% know that JS will not keep a mental list of bad users. There is nothing to worry about.



The boards and the community in general are always filled with negative comments about whoever is running the site and those users are still doing fine.

herdy - JN Staff , February 18, 2016 11:37 AM NST It's certainly true that the errors have been in place since 2010 - however they were not fixed when JS purchased the site (and perhaps more importantly, have not been fixed in the 4 months since this case first started). JS still have responsibility for the game they own currently, even if they do not for the 4 previous years before they purchased it.

feral_shade , February 18, 2016 11:39 AM NST I'm sure you're right

(though, in general, there's a difference between a dog that barks and a dog that bites, lol)

ummy - JN Staff , February 18, 2016 11:40 AM NST I guess the term "class action suit' just sounds really ominous, lol

---

I think it's the $5 million dollars+ that have been causing alarm. But they won't get it. In the worst case and the suit moves forward, they can't win on their first clause and in my (not a lawyer) opinion, their arguments and screenshots are really weak, are substantially lacking. JS can very easily oppose, and in the worst case they have at least two chances to do so if ruled against them.

ichabodisitchy , February 18, 2016 11:41 AM NST Honestly, I think this lawsuit is stupid. It talks about the fine print not being obvious enough to know that you will be auto-renewed. If you don't open your eyes to read the fine print, it's your own fault.

What the lawsuit SHOULD be able is people still getting charged after they cancel, people not receiving premium benefits after they paid for it, and people not receiving their neocash after redeeming a card.

It's pretty sad that neopets could sink because of this particular lawsuit, and it's a non-issue. If neopets is going to go down, it should be for something legitimate, like auto-renewing after you've canceled, not being some people were too oblivious to read that it will auto-renew.

taxidea , February 18, 2016 11:52 AM NST Saw someone mentioned School of Dragons and as an avid player of that game as well I can not tell you how many threads of the forum were just of people who were over charged when they purchased gem packs and memberships or being charged after their membership was cancelled and this has been going on since I started playing a few years ago. I assume this will also effect SoD (at least I hope it does) and it gets solved because with all of this going on I've 100% lost my trust in JS.

morganjoisle , February 18, 2016 11:53 AM NST @ummy and feral_shade: If you're worried and it makes you feel more confident, even if they were to go after you and want to freeze your account, that feels like something that would be really hard to trace. Unless you're providing your username (and maybe street address, because I think that's listed on our account info pages) I think it would be rather hard for TNT to catch what specific people have testified.

feral_shade , February 18, 2016 11:56 AM NST @ummy, that a fairly well considered speculation, maybe you SHOULD be a litigator...I think you'd do well in that field



@herdy, do you think Jumpstart would ever sue Viacom for a breach of contract type of thing (if they were unaware of the billing flaws when they took ownership)?



@ichibodisitchy I agree, or for discontinuing features that we paid to rely on *cough portal *cough*

ummy - JN Staff , February 18, 2016 12:14 PM NST @taxidea- JumpStart seems to have a history of billing issues across all of their properties. I've come across many SoD complaints myself. It's just a shame it has been affecting Neopets as well, which Premium had been running smoothly before the eWallet switch. Premium is well worth $50-70 if everything runs as intended. It hurts me to think how much money Neopets could be making, they have a passionate fanbase. But no one wants their favorite game to leave them in frustration over something like billing issues, premium collectibles, membership activation - things that run automatically. And it continues happens over and over again. I love Neo to pieces but they really need to get it together.

cherish , February 18, 2016 12:59 PM NST I'm really glad this is happening. What JS are doing to people is so, so wrong.

I had a really horrible experience where my full-price YEARLY Premium subscription was taken 2 MONTHS IN A ROW, without my consent.

After the first time, I cancelled my Premium subscription on Neopets.com. The next month, they took the full seventy dollars again. I was unprepared for this, and I work free-lance so money management is a delicate balancing act, and this caused me financial troubles and a LOT of stress IRL.

I managed to get my bank to reverse the charges eventually. However, I never received an explanation or even an apology from Neopets.

Unfortunately I live in the UK so I can't claim compensation, whatever the outcome. But I wish everyone across the pond the best of luck in getting some justice. <3

mac , February 18, 2016 1:22 PM NST unfortunate that the lawsuit doesn't cover all the underhanded illegal things js has been up to the past year. hopefully this will resolve something.

jrayeb33 , February 18, 2016 1:41 PM NST Oh boy this scares me

wyvernwitch , February 18, 2016 1:50 PM NST I had two months free for some unknown reason and one month I got a second copy of the monthly premium collectible. I had submitted a ticket when they didn't take my money but they took three months to respond to it and basically said "sorry for not responding lots of tickets here" lol by then they were charging like they were supposed to and my service wasn't interrupted anyway so *shrugs* I doubt the lawsuit will go anywhere ... they'd have to get a judge to agree they have a case which I doubt they will since the company has changed hands (and e-commerce services) two or three times within the time period listed... my issues with premium were actually in my favorI had two months free for some unknown reason and one month I got a second copy of the monthly premium collectible. I had submitted a ticket when they didn't take my money but they took three months to respond to it and basically said "sorry for not responding lots of tickets here" lol by then they were charging like they were supposed to and my service wasn't interrupted anyway so *shrugs* I doubt the lawsuit will go anywhere ... they'd have to get a judge to agree they have a case which I doubt they will since the company has changed hands (and e-commerce services) two or three times within the time period listed...

keyblade_warrior_10 , February 18, 2016 2:17 PM NST Okay, I saw this and was making some phone calls anyway so I brought it up to those who know.



The lawsuit probably has nothing to do with current site issues. I had phone conferences with two local attorney's over the past two hours over other issues and manged to squeak this in and they said a huge amount of lawsuits like this if it's over the types of Cali laws they think it is (which they didn't go into detail, so this may not apply), are scams. But, maybe JS will wake-up after this. One can hope, I guess? Personally, the only problem I have ever had stemmed from me using a state-issued card, and my state's cards have a history of that that varies from payee to payee.



Hopefully this will help ease some fears for the status of the site.

ummy - JN Staff , February 18, 2016 2:28 PM NST @keyblade_warrior_10- Interesting you got a lawyer's opinion. That's what I'm beginning to think too. JumpStart also must think so as well as they aren't countering the suit. The minimum amount of research here they provided in their arguments (you can dig that stuff up in less than 5-10 minutes) and the huge amount of damages makes this look sketchy on behalf of the plaintiff. Anyone could do a simple google search and see there are legitimate things they could've added to a suit about Premium like billing issues, but it's evident the plaintiff completely ignored those issues. If the attorneys have an agenda just to benefit off of that law then it makes sense.



I'm going to guess Neo looked like a good target since it used to be popular, and isn't owned by a massive corporation like Viacom where their lawyers would easily shut down the opposition. I'm going to speculate that the attorneys are trying to bank off perhaps a lesser known CA law and h

recklesse , February 18, 2016 2:38 PM NST Ummy and keyblade_warrior_10, that does make a lot of sense. I think you're right.

jadedone23 , February 18, 2016 2:39 PM NST These sort of issues are the very reason I no longer spend real money on neopets. Between that and the fear of getting CG'd, I rarely play at all anymore.

cat , February 18, 2016 2:45 PM NST @sp4de - I think they may have picked now to sue because the site's owned by JumpStart. Viacom's a big company, JumpStart's a little one, they most likely figure JumpStart's lawyers aren't going to be as adept at repelling this sort of thing as Viacom's would have been. As for why they're targetting Neopets and not JumpStart in general or JumpStart's other properties it may be that Neopets is just the tall poppy here.



It's as I suspected then: the same sort of legal trolling you see with patent trolls where someone who wants to get rich without having to put in any actual work sues a successful company for violating some law or other.



It'd be nice if this got them to finally address the payment issues that from the sounds of it are systemic to JumpStart, but I worry that it'll end up doing more harm than good.

cat , February 18, 2016 5:32 PM NST I know one criticism of Premium (and Membership in Petpet Park) that's a long standing one is that it's almost impossible to cancel it from outside of your account. So for example if you're a parent and bought a Premium subscription for your child and then realize that your child has lost interest in the site it's very difficult to get the subscription canceled. That's not the main billing issue at the moment though.

neocoladude , February 18, 2016 8:47 PM NST Honestly, this needed to happen. I'm glad JN finally decided to put this issue in the spotlight, too.

lokaula , February 18, 2016 9:35 PM NST Ummm...didn't anyone from JumpStart look into California business laws relating to subscription services BEFORE they took over? Seriously! And in my opinion, this is all "Revenge for Wanda". There's a pox on Jumpstart for taking Petpet Park away!

chachaboobie , February 19, 2016 8:36 AM NST When people have paid for Membership services that are not being provided or when people are still being charged after they have formally ended their Membership with that provider, you have grounds to sue the provider; whether in California or any other state in the US.

gabrielfcf , February 19, 2016 8:47 AM NST Hi, in october 25 2015 I have bought 500NC using the paypal Issues and I never received this NC, but the 5 dollars were charged my credit card.

morganjoisle , February 19, 2016 10:08 AM NST @lokaula: I don't see this as revenge for closing Petpet Park. That was both the fault of Nickelodeon and Jumpstart. Nickelodeon sold the site (and hadn't been putting a lot of effort into the site for the last couple of years before it closed), and Jumpstart seems like they were only interested in neopets. That said, I've come to see Jumpstart as a horribly shoddy company because neopets has suffered more visual issues that affect the userbase than were noticeable under Nickelodeon/Viacom.



Neither company has given neopets all of the attention and caring that it does deserve. Then again, I don't see neopets ever thriving to my expectations. I have too high of expectations because I actually love neopets, though, and I expect the best out of neopets rather than a lack of new content and userlookups being unable to be visited unless you're logged in to patch the horrible lag issue that lasted over six months.

ummy - JN Staff , February 19, 2016 10:19 AM NST The factors imo that led to Park's closures were a) the lack of users and b) the amount of server space and resources it required could not be justified due to (a). I would place the blame on Nickelodeon since the game and its marketing was 100% their creation. JS wasn't going to invest more in a mostly empty Park while Neo had greater potential. Not transitioning Park was a business decision. Otherwise, JS would've taken care of it since it actually fit in their target demo.

blu , February 19, 2016 6:43 PM NST What a bunch of mallarky. The plaintiff is probably some bitter twenty year old who's account got frozen and thus wants to ruin it for everyone. I'll simply note that just because a case is filed doesn't mean it has any merit whatsoever.

lucy_haha , February 19, 2016 9:44 PM NST @morganjoisle

I agree with you on JS and Nick's faults. Nick didn't care much about Neopets, but at least they put their money and let TNT run it routinely, it becomes kind of boring with no enough resources to enhance Neopian's experience, so people are slowly going away but still quite loyal to Neo. With JS, they even laid off the old staffs and think the new and experienced staffs can held the site. They're not enhancing Neopets, they're purely cutting cost and squeezes money from us and think we're so loyal that we don't care about the quality of the site.

savanuhh , February 20, 2016 11:32 AM NST I know people are saying Viacom handed JS a site with issues, but I never had any problems at all when Viacom was still in charge. I truly believe the site started falling apart with JS. Key Quest, Habitarium, Petpet Park, Lenny Conundrum, Random Contest, all gone. DoN & DoNII are broken. The site lags. Ghoul Catchers has even been down for 3 days now. I really wish JS would get their act together. I keep holding out hoping someone else will buy the site from them or something because I've been a member for 13 years & care too much about the site, but I want the old TNT back.

kotleta , February 21, 2016 1:13 PM NST Old TNT couldn't do a thing for 8 months straight when servers transitioned. JS simply took over what the old team failed to do. I don't know if there was a lack funds or hands that led to old TNT's demise. But, in retrospect there were already problems happening with the site.



The old team is no more. Can't go back. I just hope JS will make a comeback, not like before but enough to help the struggling site.

kakkw13 , February 21, 2016 5:47 PM NST I didnt read all the posts, but of what I read I didnt see anyone else with my issue. TNT canceled my Premium membership without telling me twice in a year. The first time was July 2015 when I just got these notices about my cancellation forcing me to move my 5th pet, all perks gone, and shortly before that I didnt get my Premuim collectable which I thought was weird. I complained, told them they need to make it right. They never responded (still). So I re signed myself up for Premium because I cant stand all those ads JUST for it to happen all over again. This time they made it confusing though, I had the 'phantom' membership for what felt like forever. They responded after over a month that time saying that it was canceled and they let me keep these features as a 'courtesy'. A COURTESY IS NOT CANCELING YOUR PAYING CUSTOMER's MEMBERSHIP WITHOUT PERMISSION! Ugh. I did not renew.

mlp_joy , February 22, 2016 11:02 AM NST I have been a premium member for many years and I haven't had a problem. I did have a couple hour delay in receiving my NC last year. The only JS problem I've had was being charged for my Petpet Park membership not even 24 hours before they took the site down. I believe this was underhanded and just plain wrong. Billing should have been disabled in advance. I have little trust for JS now.

marnee , February 23, 2016 12:12 AM NST

Yet I never cancelled the membership, and the card used for previous auto renewals is still active and valid. Neopets never sent any kind of notice or email to me that the Premium Membership was due, that the auto renew had not occurred, or that the Premium Membership had been cancelled.

Like kakkw13, Neopets stated, "As a gesture of good faith during the transition to a new payment provider we had extended a portion of the premium services for free to users who were no longer subscribed." Everything except the 5th pet has now been removed from my account.

What kind of "good faith" is it to cancel a membership without ever letting the person know?

Guess it's time to bid adieu move on I've been a Premium Member for about four years. When I submitted a ticket to Neopets to ask why I hadn't received the Feb. Collectible, they wrote back to say my membership was cancelled as of 1/31/16.Yet I never cancelled the membership, and the card used for previous auto renewals is still active and valid. Neopets never sent any kind of notice or email to me that the Premium Membership was due, that the auto renew had not occurred, or that the Premium Membership had been cancelled.Like kakkw13, Neopets stated, "As a gesture of good faith during the transition to a new payment provider we had extended a portion of the premium services for free to users who were no longer subscribed." Everything except the 5th pet has now been removed from my account.What kind of "good faith" is it to cancel a membership without ever letting the person know?Guess it's time to bid adieu move on

recklesse , February 23, 2016 7:28 AM NST They know auto-renew isn't functioning properly for a lot of players. They've known it for months. That's the whole reason they've set it so most of the perks aren't lost when membership expires.



I just don't understand why they haven't gone out of their way to make people aware that there is a problem and that everyone should regularly check 'manage membership' to be sure their subscription is paid up and current. You'd think that would help cut down on unnecessary tickets. But no!



The first thing they did when they realised there was a problem back in June/July was not to make their subscribers aware that they should check their status. Oh no! Instead they held a membership sale to encourage more people to sign up at the height of the trouble.



(*hopes my post won't be deleted this time if I avoid mentioning any long-eared, stubborn, recalcitrant beasts of burden with 4 legs in relation to the law*)

sophieea , February 23, 2016 7:37 AM NST I'm not being funny, but the fact that only US citizens might be entitled to compensation is rubbish. What about the rest of the world?



That said, I haven't personally had any issues, but I do have a friend who has redeemed NC cards in the UK and has received less NC than she was entitled to/paid for.

recklesse , February 23, 2016 9:13 AM NST Well, even the complaint document (Pleading Template) seems confused. In the introduction (para. #1) it defines the 'class' as applying only to people in California then, later (under 'allegations' para. #26) it extends to all premium members in the United States.



It looks a bit woolly to me. But the case doesn't apply to NC issues anyway.



I don't think they've even fixed the UK cards to give the correct amount of NC yet either.

ummy - JN Staff , February 23, 2016 4:50 PM NST I just don't understand why they haven't gone out of their way to make people aware that there is a problem and that everyone should regularly check 'manage membership' to be sure their subscription is paid up and current. You'd think that would help cut down on unnecessary tickets. But no!

---

Because why should the paying user have to worry about something that is set to be automatic? It is TNT's and the ewallet's responsibility to make sure memberships remain current. Making the user do extra work because something isn't working on TNT's end adds extra frustration to the people who help keep the site alive.



And then what if a membership isn't current for a user who paid? Do they pay again, which means they've been double billed? It still leads to tickets either way.

ummy - JN Staff , February 23, 2016 4:54 PM NST @recklesse- I wouldn't be surprised at all if there's been an increase in premium issues that wouldn't have happened if the sale hadn't encouraged people to sign-up/renew premium when they were already having issues with identifying who were the current members.

john3637881 , February 23, 2016 5:38 PM NST Do you guys think this situation will be the end of Neopets?

recklesse , February 24, 2016 6:12 AM NST Because why should the paying user have to worry about something that is set to be automatic? It is TNT's and the ewallet's responsibility to make sure memberships remain current.

------



That's absolutely true. But, they haven't been doing so, and I've completely lost count of the number of people with issues who hadn't even thought to glance at the 'Manage Membership' page to see whether they'd been unknowingly booted off or re-subscribed. I don't think some of them even knew the page existed.



Most recently I've seen people who received emails from Neopets confirming their membership had been renewed even though it hadn't. A quick look at 'Manage Membership' (and or bank statements) would have shown them that it hadn't been billed and their membership had lapsed (details that would be useful to include in a ticket).



As you rightly pointed out, that shouldn't be happening; but that's the reality we're fac

recklesse , February 24, 2016 6:34 AM NST ... facing. (post got cut off).

cat , February 26, 2016 6:59 PM NST I'm not being funny, but the fact that only US citizens might be entitled to compensation is rubbish. What about the rest of the world?

---

Probably because it's a US law that's being used. Unfortunately there isn't any sort of international legal system to handle money related stuff in online games (IMO there really should be) so this stuff probably has to be handled on a country by country basis.

star9837 , February 28, 2016 8:00 PM NST I think the biggest problem with the site is that all the coders that knew the ins and outs of the website are gone now. Now you have people that don't really understand most of the code on here anymore since it's so old and that normal tactics to remedy the problems is not working. This happens pretty much 99% of the time new coders come into something. Eventually you get to a point where "fixing" the problem is just not gonna happen. They need to recode the whole site. Which is what Flight Rising is doing. They update each page to a www1 address as they go.



These problems are taking way to long to fix simply because they're too far gone. If you "fix" something and it breaks not only do you have to undo the "fix" you have to find another fix because you can't just leave it broken like that. And honestly JS doesn't have the same budget and man power to oversee such a large website. They are ill equipped and undersized.



This may be

star9837 , February 28, 2016 8:01 PM NST This may be the last straw for Neo. If they have to compensate everyone for Premium that may be too big of a hit to recover from. Especially if they still can't find a fix to the renewing problem. They would have to compensate people AND be out that income because they'd have to take it down until it is fixed. With budget cuts I'm assuming the ewallet provider is cheaper than the last one, but also not as good. We also had the server problems which came from pieces of code getting stuck and things not being properly synced together anymore. It's like a cake. Sure you can cut the pieces and transport it but it'll never be the same. Plus their server is not as powerful as Viacoms was.



They've been in and over their heads ever since they purchased Neo. They should never have considered purchasing if they couldn't have a budget and staff team as large as it was. Likewise Viacom shouldn't have dumped the site on any unsuspecting poor fool to deal with.

erealia , March 2, 2016 9:37 PM NST I am okay with continuing my premium membership, but actually, I think I haven't been charged in a good while, but I also haven't gotten the monthly freebies, but I have everything else. They're having a tough time over there a JS, eh?

Want to add your thoughts? You just need to log into your jnAccount!

Log In Register a jnAccount