The following is an email exchange I received from a concerned friend of a woman whose husband is divorcing her and citing the information on A Shrink for Men as a reason to end the relationship. I decided to open this dialog to my readers because there is important information to be gleaned from it. I’d also like to know your thoughts.

What are your thoughts on couple’s counseling before divorce? I have a friend whose husband (soon to be ex) refuses to go see a counselor with her, siting many of the articles on your web site as his reasons. It seems to me that if he has really done nothing wrong as he says, he should go to at least 1 session with her before throwing in the towel. He simply quotes you, saying there can be no closure with a narcissistic/borderline woman, so there is no point. Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated, as I hate to see my wonderful friend’s marriage fall apart because he found a blog he can relate to. Thanks, Lois

Hi Lois,

If a couple has decided to divorce the only reason I can see going to couples counseling is if children are involved. In which case, the couple would have a session or two re: how to tell the children and so a therapist can explain what parental alienation is and, in no uncertain terms, that neither parent should trash the other in front of the children.

Couples therapy isn’t supposed to be used to assign blame or to coerce someone into remaining in a relationship. When you write, “if he has really done nothing wrong as he says, he should go to at least 1 session with her before throwing in the towel” it sounds as if he’s on trial and that his claims of emotional abuse aren’t to be believed. Would you encourage a female friend who was being abused by her husband to go to therapy before “throwing in the towel?” He’s the one who lived with the woman. I don’t know who this man is, but if that’s his experience, it’s his experience and he shouldn’t have to prove it to a therapist, to you or to anyone else. If your friend truly does have the issues I write about, then it doesn’t matter what her husband has or hasn’t done. He could’ve been the kindest, sweetest man in the world and she still would’ve dumped on him. If this is the case, I can see why he wouldn’t want to go to therapy to become the marital scapegoat again.

Kind Regards,

Dr Tara

In rereading Lois’ first email, I neglected to mention in my response that my blog is not the cause of her friend’s divorce, but her friend’s abuse of her husband. I nearly missed that twister-roo. Very subtle mis-assignment of blame. Hat’s off, Lois. Have you ever wondered why he can relate to my blog?



Here’s Lois’s reply three days later. My guess is that she had to consult “her friend” for a pow-wow:

Thanks for the quick response. The only problem I see with the advice on your website is that so many men could claim some of these personality traits applied to their wife/GF at certain points. What woman doesn’t go a little “crazy” now and then? If you say a normal woman doesn’t, then you’re not living in reality. It’s almost like you’ve created this fabulous brand and are selling your product to these men without them realizing that they are being controlled by yet another woman. I think the woman you describe on your website is actually a small percentage of the women all these men claim have npd/bpd. It would be interesting for you to write about the possiblilities of some men using this as an easy way out. What easier way to not have to deal with the repercussions of divorce than to simply say, “She’s crazy, there can be no closure, so I can’t even discuss this with her further.” I guess I’m so bothered by all of this because I’m watching your advice in action. My friend is a good, nice person. She deals with anxiety issues and can have some pretty bad pms moments, but overall she is great (she is like a sister to me so I’ve seen her at her best and worst.). Her husband is a good, nice man that deals with some anxiety issues and addiction issues (he is most recently being prescribed to 40+ mg of Adderall a day– having been prescribed to this before I know how it can make you feel by the end of the day). She questioned his abilities to own his own business which was probably a serious blow to his manhood and he has never been the same (she supported him while he was starting a business; he had already abandoned one business and decided to try this one out). They immediately separated and he has since taken to quoting your advice when she tries to talk about anything with him. Your advice seems to have gotten in the wrong hands! No where do you talk about the fact that this can happen. It seems that a good dr. would lay this all out for her patient. Unless they are more like customers and what customer is going to come back if they’re not hearing what they want to hear. I’m not sure if this is the case with you, but you need to realize that these are real people’s lives you’re playing with, and it’s frightening to think of the damage you are doing. This website is a great resource for men involved with npd/bpd women- definitely. I’m just inclined to believe that it is a small percentage of women that actually have this disorder. Can you honestly say you’ve never had a “crazy bitch” moment in your life? In my opinion, maybe you shouldn’t look at marriage as so disposable. Thanks again for your time, Lois

Here is my open reply to Lois:

Hi Lois,

Let me address your most recent email point-by-point.

1. The only problem I see with the advice on your website is that so many men could claim some of these personality traits applied to their wife/GF at certain points. What woman doesn’t go a little “crazy” now and then? Actually, this isn’t the only problem you have with my advice as you go onto cite many more. If you have at all bothered to read my site, you’ll notice I’m very clear that these behaviors aren’t isolated, one-time incidents. They’re a pervasive and consistent established pattern of behavior demonstrated across time.

Furthermore, most healthy non-abusive women do not go “a little crazy now and then” like NPD/BPD women do. No one’s perfect, but having a bad day isn’t on the same par as being emotionally abusive. Having a bad day isn’t the norm and an adult acknowledges that he or she was out of line, doesn’t blame their partner and tries their damnedest not to behave like that again.

2. It’s almost like you’ve created this fabulous brand and are selling your product to these men without them realizing that they are being controlled by yet another woman. First, I don’t get paid to produce this website. I write it in my spare time and it’s free of charge. Second, just because your friend’s husband recognized his wife’s behavior as abusive through the information I provide (which is documented on many other websites and publications, but usually directed toward female targets of abuse) doesn’t mean he’s being controlled by yet another woman.

It just means that your friend is losing her ability to control her soon-to-be ex-husband and he’s making choices for himself. There’s a difference. I can’t make anyone do anything nor would I even try to do so. I believe in empowering through education. This means encouraging an individual to gather as much information as possible to make the best informed decisions. Additionally, I don’t go out trawling for readers. They find my website by searching the Internet for explanations for their wives’ or girlfriends’ behaviors.

3. It would be interesting for you to write about the possibilities of some men using this as an easy way out. What easier way to not have to deal with the repercussions of divorce than to simply say, “She’s crazy, there can be no closure, so I can’t even discuss this with her further.” Divorce is never an easy way out, especially if you’re in an emotionally abusive relationship. Prolonged abuse disorients a person, causes you to doubt yourself and your judgment and completely strips you of your self-confidence. Ending this kind of relationship is often painfully difficult because when the abuser senses she’s losing control, she ratchets up the abuse and bombards her target, for example, by enlisting her friends and family to interfere in the process.

4. My friend is a good, nice person. She deals with anxiety issues and can have some pretty bad pms moments, but overall she is great. . . PMS or Narcissistic rage episode? Anxiety issues or borderline insecurity riddled accusations? Po-ta-to—Po-tah-to. To-ma-to—To-mah-to. PMS is not an excuse to take your rage and anxiety out on another person. Unless she has pre-menstrual psychosis, in which case she should be hospitalized.

5. Her husband is a good, nice man that deals with some anxiety issues and addiction issues (he is most recently being prescribed to 40+ mg of Adderall a day. . . I assume a licensed Medical Doctor is prescribing him Adderall for attentional deficits and not because he’s addicted to crank. How do you arrive at the conclusion this is an “addiction?”

6. She questioned his abilities to own his own business which was probably a serious blow to his manhood and he has never been the same (she supported him while he was starting a business. . . So which is it? Did she undermine his confidence and belittle him or support him? You can’t do both simultaneously. How do you define “support?” Financial? Emotional? Do you mean your friend had to work while her husband was starting a business? If so, that’s not going above and beyond. That’s what a well-functioning couple does for one another.

7. They immediately separated and he has since taken to quoting your advice when she tries to talk about anything with him. Your advice seems to have gotten in the wrong hands! No where do you talk about the fact that this can happen. Separation and divorce doesn’t usually happen out of the blue. There’s typically a build-up of hurt and frustration. However, for many women with BPD/NPD, it does seem to happen “all of a sudden” because they do not have the capacity for introspection nor the ability to hold themselves accountable.

As for my advice “getting into the wrong hands,” I’m sure it happens. Just like it happens when emotionally abusive NPD/BPD women find sites for female targets of abuse and use the information therein to attack and abuse their husbands or boyfriends and justify their bad behavior. It works both ways and I can’t control this.

8. You need to realize that these are real people’s lives you’re playing with, and it’s frightening to think of the damage you are doing. Again, I don’t force anyone to do anything. I offer information and options. Instead, you might want to consider the damage women with NPD/BPD do to the people in their lives. It’s very real and, contrary to your beliefs, it happens far more often than you think. For every man who shares his experiences on this website there are thousands more out there suffering in silence.

9. This website is a great resource for men involved with npd/bpd women- definitely. I’m just inclined to believe that it is a small percentage of women that actually have this disorder. Can you honestly say you’ve never had a “crazy bitch” moment in your life? Thanks for the backhanded compliment, Lois. As previously noted, the statistics indicate that the gender ratio of abuse in a relationship is about a 50-50 split. Why is this so hard for you to accept? Would it cause you to have to look at your own behavior in relationships?

Also previously noted, everyone overreacts from time to time and says or does things that they regret. However, these moments are out of character and infrequent, not the norm. When I have a bad day, I don’t go crazy. I maintain control over my emotions and insecurities by thinking them through rather than lashing out at others. On the rare occasion when I become inpatient or short-tempered, I recognize my behavior as hurtful and out of line almost immediately, get myself in check, acknowledge what I’ve done, apologize and then make the effort not to do it again.

However, this isn’t about me. You’re writing to me for your friend.

10. In my opinion, maybe you shouldn’t look at marriage as so disposable. Nowhere do I state that marriage is disposable. I take marriage just as seriously as I take abuse. Emotionally or physically abusing your spouse is a deal-breaker. It breaks the most fundamental marriage vows to love, honor and respect. I would argue that emotionally abusive women view marriage and their partners as disposable because they certainly treat them like garbage.

Instead of focusing on helping your friend try to keep her husband in a marriage he clearly no longer wants, perhaps you can help her think through how she arrived to this outcome, so that she doesn’t replay it in future relationships.

Best,

Dr Tara J. Palmatier, PsyD

Shrink4Men Coaching and Consultation Services:

Dr Tara J. Palmatier provides confidential, fee-for-service, consultation/coaching services to help both men and women work through their relationship issues via telephone and/or Skype chat. Her practice combines practical advice, support, reality testing and goal-oriented outcomes. Please visit the Shrink4Men Services page for professional inquiries.

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