You're right that definitions start to blend, so at some point they aren't the most useful beyond what your intent is in a given situation.



I define a bait as a way to give the opponent an opening or obvious cue or an advantage(if you fair from mid range then he knows you will be in lag and could be advantaged) such that they want to move in. They may not take this bait but only CONSIDER it, but it would still be a bait(in fact, not taking the bait could be another bait, etc). A bait need not be successful.

We use baits to put opponents into positions we have practiced, which give us a higher chance of winning. These situations ideally also give us a chance to beat their tools with ours more reliably. (at least if they do what you expect, what the meta says is common or good, etc...)



Your last paragraph is on the right track.





Edit: oh yeah, so you guys can see how I didn't always understand this, I thought I would attach an AIM conversation between Cactuar and myself in late 2011/early 2012.





wsflcactuar 10:26 pm

its not

the same way i complain about how

people view dash dancing

and just see running left and right

without seeing that its moving forward or away from the opponent and what you can do with that

sorry, meant to say

it is definitely underused*



drpeepee 10:28 pm

im incredibly interested in dash dancing and the way you use yours. did you end up assigning them roles with one dash forward being faster and meant to be an intimidating approach and the away one is slower and meant to lull the opponent into a false sense of security?



wsflcactuar 10:28 pm

yes

its all

in

the book



drpeepee 10:28 pm

the fact that you dont dd evenly is incredibly interesting

and it is???



wsflcactuar 10:28 pm

yes



drpeepee 10:28 pm

wow lol



wsflcactuar 10:28 pm

it is

a proper feint

is composed of two actions

a fast, big, attention drawing action

and a slow action

now

both of these actions happen within 1 beat

but they take up an uneven amount of space

your control over yourself

is what pushes you

from having a 50/50

attack/retreat timing

to a 60/40

or 70/30

or further

there is a limit

based on the distance you can travel at what speed

but dd is a 1 frame exchange of momentum



wsflcactuar 10:30 pm

so you can shift it crazy fast

man im such a nerd



drpeepee 10:31 pm

but



drpeepee 10:33 pm

do you assign forward as a number above 50 always? how do you adjust the timing based on conditioning and positioning? do you move forward more when your opponent is more defensive and do you keep your timing more evenly distributed when you're by the edge since you have less room to move and your opponent wants to attack/zone you in that position for example



wsflcactuar 10:33 pm

no, the numbers can be manipulated within the beat in whatever way you want

you do them at a pace

that you can interrupt at any point

with a fast dash forward and attack

within a half beat

or thats the ideal striking distance for a quick attack anyway

big leads

like a marth fsmash

count as a full beat alone

fast things like fox's dash sh nair

are a half beat

with a half beat fall+movement



drpeepee 10:34 pm

what is a beat?



wsflcactuar 10:34 pm

so a single sh nair + dash forward

like

in music

beats

its a measurement of time

its based on your own internal rhythm



wsflcactuar 10:35 pm

which isn't something i can explain easily

smash is extremely similar to actual fighting

in the sense that it creates internal rhythm in some players

and that rhythm usually syncs with that person's dd initially

but can spread to all of their actions with a character

like when you are playing fox

and you just get into the flow of

sh nair's back and forth

passing over the same spot

turning instantly and dashing back again once you land

doing it consistently

tightening it up

slowing it

you are basically making rhythm adjustments



wsflcactuar 10:37 pm

btw, i know **** i say can sound kinda crazy

but its just the way i define it to myself

just so i can explain it

internally its just like

feelings i have about things



drpeepee 10:40 pm

i get you but that is awful hard to break down in a simple way for me to apply to myself outside of making sure i have a difficult rhythm to follow and also one that can be altered to a difficult to follow extent

not your fault or anything but i understand and was just really curious about how you considered it haha



wsflcactuar 10:42 pm

haha

yeah

just



wsflcactuar 10:42 pm

read the book when you have time





Reading the book only somewhat helped, and I had to keep talking to him to explain it like this LOL. But yeah, this is why I don't recommend going off and messing with rhythm all that extensively since it's just a hard concept. Maybe when I can explain it better it won't be so bad?



edit 2: a proper feint to me is different from that, and it probably is to him now as well. We were working on it together even if he did understand way more of it at the time than I did. So don't get hung up on particulars.