THE PRESIDENT: We set out a goal in my speech to the joint session that said everybody should have at least one year of post-high-school training. And I think it would be too rigid to say everybody needs a four-year-college degree. I think everybody needs enough post-high-school training that they are competent in fields that require technical expertise, because it’s very hard to imagine getting a job that pays a living wage without that — or it’s very hard at least to envision a steady job in the absence of that.

And so to the extent that we can upgrade not only our high schools but also our community colleges to provide a sound technical basis for being able to perform complicated tasks in a 21st-century economy, then I think that not only is that good for the individuals, but that’s going to be critical for the economy as a whole.

I want to emphasize, though, that part of the challenge is making sure that folks are getting in high school what they need as well. You know, I use my grandmother as an example for a lot of things, but I think this is telling. My grandmother never got a college degree. She went to high school. Unlike my grandfather, she didn’t benefit from the G.I. Bill, even though she worked on a bomber assembly line. She went to work as a secretary. But she was able to become a vice president at a bank partly because her high-school education was rigorous enough that she could communicate and analyze information in a way that, frankly, a bunch of college kids in many parts of the country can’t. She could write —

Today, you mean?

THE PRESIDENT: Today. She could write a better letter than many of my — I won’t say “many,” but a number of my former students at the University of Chicago Law School. So part of the function of a high-school degree or a community-college degree is credentialing, right? It allows employers in a quick way to sort through who’s got the skills and who doesn’t. But part of the problem that we’ve got right now is that what it means to have graduated from high school, what it means to have graduated from a two-year college or a four-year college is not always as clear as it was several years ago.

And that means that we’ve got to — in our education-reform agenda — we’ve got to focus not just on increasing graduation rates, but we’ve also got to make what’s learned in the high-school and college experience more robust and more effective.

I was in West Virginia recently talking to some college students, and these are kids in college, fully intending to graduate, and yet they were still telling me they’re not sure whether a college education is worth it. They’re going to be graduating in a recession. They’re worried their jobs will go to China. You hear these things all the time. What would you say — there are a large number of very thoughtful people who have those concerns — what would you say to them?

THE PRESIDENT: Well, look, I’d start off by saying just look at the statistics. The unemployment rate for high-school graduates is at least three times what it is for a college graduate. So it’s true that in this recession you’re seeing white-collar jobs impacted. Even before the recession, it’s true that you saw some outsourcing of white-collar jobs. But if you’re working the odds, your likelihood of getting a job that pays you a good, solid middle-class wage is vastly increased upon graduating from college — unless you’re LeBron James. And so I think the evidence (3) speaks for itself.