EFF: Leaks Prove NSA Has No Meaningful Oversight Time after time we've watched as NSA lies have been subsequently debunked by the Snowden leaks. Whether it's James Clapper's lie before Congress that the NSA doesn't collect data on ordinary American citizens with no ties to terror activities, to Keith Alexander claiming that the NSA has adequate oversight and never violates oversight rules, the NSA has absolutely no credibility in the face of the public at this point. After several weeks of repeated lying, the EFF has eloquently illustrated that the NSA clearly has no adequate oversight from any of the three branches of government. I'm quoting the whole thing because it's incredibly important to reiterate: quote: First, the Executive. After a review of internal NSA audits of the spying programs provided by Edward Snowden, the Post lays out—in stark detail—that the claims of oversight inside the Executive Branch are empty. The article reveals that an internal NSA audit not shown to Congress, the President, or the FISA Court detailed thousands of violations where the NSA collected, stored, and accessed American's communications content and other information. In one story, NSA analysts searched for all communications containing the Swedish manufacturer Ericsson and “radio” or “radar.” What's worse: the thousands of violations only include the NSA's main office in Maryland—not the other—potentially hundreds—of other NSA offices across the country. And even more importantly, the documents published by the Post reveal violations increasing every year. The news reports and documents are in direct contrast to the repeated assertions by President Obama (video), General James Clapper (video), and General Keith Alexander (video) that the US government does not listen to or look at Americans' phone calls or emails. So much for official pronouncements that oversight by the Executive was "extensive" and "robust." Second, the FISA Court. The Post presents a second article in which the Chief Judge of the FISA Court admits that the court is unable to act as a watchdog or stop the NSA's abuses: “The FISC is forced to rely upon the accuracy of the information that is provided to the Court,” its chief, US District Judge Reggie B. Walton, said in a written statement. “The FISC does not have the capacity to investigate issues of noncompliance." Civil liberties and privacy advocates have long said that the FISA Court is a rubber stamp when it comes to the spying, but this is worse—this is the Court admitting that it cannot conduct the oversight the President and others have claimed it is doing. So much for claims by officials from the White House (video), NSA, DOJ, and Intelligence Committee members of Congress that the FISA Court is another strong pillar of oversight. Third, the Congress. Last week, Representative Sensenbrenner complained that "the practice of classified briefings are a 'rope-a-dope operation' in which lawmakers are given information and then forbidden from speaking out about it." Members of Congress who do not serve on the Intelligence Committees in the both the House and Senate have had difficulty in obtaining documents about the NSA spying. Last week, it was even uncovered that the Chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, Rep. Mike Rogers, failed to provide freshmen members of Congress vital documents about the NSA's activities during a key vote to re-approve the spying. Senators Wyden and Udall have been desperately trying to tell the American people what is going on, but this year the House Intelligence committee's Subcommittee on Oversight has not met once and the Senate Intelligence committee has met publicly only twice. One fact is stark and clear: nobody's watching the watchers. One fact is stark and clear: nobody's watching the watchers.







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topics flat nest wrad

join:2003-09-11

Fort Pierce, FL wrad Member NSA Oversite They lack the money to establish over-site. Give them a few more billion, and ...

vircotto

Premium Member

join:2002-06-04

searching... vircotto Premium Member Re: NSA Oversite Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha! Ha!



I'm glad I wasn't drinking my coffee!

ArrayList

DevOps

Premium Member

join:2005-03-19

Mullica Hill, NJ ArrayList Premium Member eff clings to anything They really hope that all this BS is true and still have no evidence to support that claim. TheRogueX

join:2003-03-26

Springfield, MO TheRogueX Member Re: eff clings to anything Uh, they have plenty of evidence. None of this is BS. Do you mind taking off your rose-colored glasses for a bit and looking at this objectively like a rational, intelligent individual?

ArrayList

DevOps

Premium Member

join:2005-03-19

Mullica Hill, NJ ArrayList Premium Member Re: eff clings to anything Looking at it objectively would require a bit more than just the testimony of one man. TheRogueX

join:2003-03-26

Springfield, MO TheRogueX Member Re: eff clings to anything That 'one man' has plenty of evidence on his side. pawpaw

join:2004-05-05

Asheville, NC pawpaw to ArrayList

Member to ArrayList

What evidence do you have that the EFF is wrong?

ArrayList

DevOps

Premium Member

join:2005-03-19

Mullica Hill, NJ ArrayList Premium Member Re: eff clings to anything Burden of proof falls on EFF, and they have no evidence. All they have is the testimony of a man. That's barely enough to prove anything. pawpaw

join:2004-05-05

Asheville, NC ·Charter

pawpaw Member Re: eff clings to anything Alright then, EFF has to make their case. Just for the sake of argument, assume that the evidence exists. How do you suggest they obtain and reveal it? Or satisfy themselves that it is a mirage?



On the other hand, the government maintains that it is doing nothing wrong. I think the burden of proof is on the government.

ArrayList

DevOps

Premium Member

join:2005-03-19

Mullica Hill, NJ ·Comcast XFINITY

ArrayList Premium Member Re: eff clings to anything If the government is going to reveal anything, I expect congress to get it out. That's their purpose. They give the NSA the money and they can make rules about proper oversight. They are in charge, not me. I get to tell them what to do on election day and that's the end of my real participation.



There is no place for mutiny in government. pawpaw

join:2004-05-05

Asheville, NC 1 recommendation pawpaw Member Re: eff clings to anything Spoken like a true Tory! TheRogueX

join:2003-03-26

Springfield, MO TheRogueX to ArrayList

Member to ArrayList

Uh, that man has released documents from within the very organizations in question. That is the evidence we're talking about. It is real, it's not just hearsay.

Joe2

@comcast.net Joe2 Anon Re: eff clings to anything Makes me wonder if ArrayList is one of the techs that ISN'T getting laid off? Or was that 90%-getting-fired deal an urban myth?



Heard of the expression "Fool me once..."? They've had a habit of getting caught doing stuff they claim not to, for decades. O_o

Bootes

Premium Member

join:2005-01-28

New York, NY Bootes Premium Member Mistake



"After several weeks of repeated lying, the EFF has eloquently illustrated that the EFF clealy has no adequete oversight" TheRogueX

join:2003-03-26

Springfield, MO 1 edit TheRogueX Member Re: Mistake



EDIT: My apologies, sir! I re-read the article and you are indeed just pointing out a mistake in it, lol. Please disregard the above. So you're going to use your personal bias against the EFF to just disregard this? You're perfectly ok with the NSA violating privacy and the Constitution?EDIT: My apologies, sir! I re-read the article and you are indeed just pointing out a mistake in it, lol. Please disregard the above. MaynardKrebs

We did it. We heaved Steve. Yipee.

Premium Member

join:2009-06-17 MaynardKrebs Premium Member Re: Mistake said by TheRogueX: So you're going to use your personal bias against the EFF to just disregard this? You're perfectly ok with the NSA violating privacy and the Constitution?



It's the same rationale he probably uses to vote Republican. and to watch Faux Noise.

NOCTech75

Premium Member

join:2009-06-29

Marietta, GA NOCTech75 Premium Member Re: Mistake said by MaynardKrebs: said by TheRogueX: So you're going to use your personal bias against the EFF to just disregard this? You're perfectly ok with the NSA violating privacy and the Constitution?





It's the same rationale he probably uses to vote Republican. and to watch Faux Noise. Or to vote Democrat and watch MSNBC.

Metatron2008

Premium Member

join:2008-09-02

united state Metatron2008 to MaynardKrebs

Premium Member to MaynardKrebs

said by MaynardKrebs: said by TheRogueX: So you're going to use your personal bias against the EFF to just disregard this? You're perfectly ok with the NSA violating privacy and the Constitution?





It's the same rationale he probably uses to vote Republican. and to watch Faux Noise. The only people okay with the NSA violating privacy right now are people giving up their rights and people who cheerlead for Obama...

ArrayList

DevOps

Premium Member

join:2005-03-19

Mullica Hill, NJ ArrayList Premium Member Re: Mistake If that were true, you would see the House of Representatives killing the NSAs "evil" programs. I bet that they are just as on board with it. intok (banned)

join:2012-03-15 intok (banned) to Metatron2008

Member to Metatron2008

Wrong, we where the ones that told you all this was going on back under Bush and you pachyderms said it was all good to catch "the ter'ists" and that it could never possibly come back to bite us in the ass.



We're still here and still pissed that it's still happening. pawpaw

join:2004-05-05

Asheville, NC pawpaw to MaynardKrebs

Member to MaynardKrebs

Please do not inject the D/R red herring. For the purposes of this discussion they are one and the same.

ArrayList

DevOps

Premium Member

join:2005-03-19

Mullica Hill, NJ ArrayList to TheRogueX

Premium Member to TheRogueX

The NSA doesn't violate "privacy and the constitution". the supreme court has the authority to grant them the privileges that they have. TheRogueX

join:2003-03-26

Springfield, MO TheRogueX Member Re: Mistake Uh, no it doesn't. It can't violate the Constitution either. Everything the NSA is doing right now violates the 4th Amendment.

ArrayList

DevOps

Premium Member

join:2005-03-19

Mullica Hill, NJ ArrayList Premium Member Re: Mistake No, it doesn't violate anything. The supreme court has already answered that question. It's been settled.

joe2

@comcast.net joe2 Anon Re: Mistake Imagine if a kid could decide how much candy they could get. Do you think that no kid, ever, would just keep asking for more?

It's the classic fox guarding the hen house, here - they can do anything they want because it's illegal to prove a violation!

n2jtx

join:2001-01-13

Glen Head, NY n2jtx to Bootes

Member to Bootes

said by Bootes: "After several weeks of repeated lying, the EFF has eloquently illustrated that the EFF clealy has no adequete oversight"





That was done to prevent the three-letter agency from scooping up the paragraph!

StuartMW

Premium Member

join:2000-08-06 StuartMW Premium Member We need... quote: Leaks Prove NSA Has No Meaningful Oversight The gummint should solve this by forming the NSAW (NSA Watchers) and pouring billions into it so it can have "oversight" over the NSA. After some time we'll need the NSAWW, NSAWWW...



We can't limit the NSA's activities (and funding) since that would allow "the terrorists" to blow up the whole US and us along with it. The gummint should solve this by forming the NSAW (NSA Watchers) and pouring billions into it so it can have "oversight" over the NSA. After some time we'll need the NSAWW, NSAWWW...We can't limit the NSA's activities (and funding) since that would allow "the terrorists" to blow up the whole US and us along with it.

ArrayList

DevOps

Premium Member

join:2005-03-19

Mullica Hill, NJ ArrayList Premium Member Re: We need... Congress is supposed to be the ones to watch over it, but they are okay with it, so yeah. Our form of government apparently doesn't work. CXM_Splicer

Looking at the bigger picture

Premium Member

join:2011-08-11

NYC CXM_Splicer Premium Member Re: We need... Actually, they are not ok with it; most of Congress didn't know. intok (banned)

join:2012-03-15 intok (banned) to StuartMW

Member to StuartMW

Why not just list the NSA as terrorists?

AnonMan

@comcast.net AnonMan Anon My view Here is my view on it all.



I don't care if a machine is parsing through all my data as I have no plans to kill my brothers and sisters but I do care if it's stored long-term or a person is allowed to do as they please with it. I understand SOME basic freedoms must be given up to ensure safety but the problem is they are not doing it properly.



It should be all automated in that specific keywords or combination or other alg. of them are flagged for review or only people who known ties etc. and beyond that everything else ignored. Wouldn't you want them to know if the guy 3 houses down form you had access to nukes and planned to nuke your town? You would cry if they didn't but cry that they do. Now grant it he shouldn't have gotten access to it anyway but you get the point.



We live in a sick world where people can no longer be trusted or care about eachother. It's sad we have to lock our doors at night and need guns to protect ourselves but that's why these things exists, to help protect us.



Now I am against the widespread spying on people but I also understand it needs to exists somewhat, just not in the manner they have implemented and use it. Don't also be fooled also, NSA is not only one doing this... The whole problem is that they lie and the way they allow access and no oversight over the mater.



End of the day it's not the information that matters, it's what they do with it and who has access to it that does.

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skeechan

Ai Otsukaholic

Premium Member

join:2012-01-26

AA169|170 1 recommendation skeechan Premium Member The entire government is lacking oversight... ...the most corrupt and totalitarian in American history.



No one in government has credibility at this point.

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ARGONAUT

Have a nice day.

Premium Member

join:2006-01-24

New Albany, IN ARGONAUT Premium Member It's Just Sad I have no trust in our federal government. Both political parties have become bad characters. your comment..

