27 Oct 2017, 11:09

Durokan I tend to get inspired and motivated by one of my sketches or an offhand comment that someone mentions and I crack open the template and build from there. Since I also do maps for non-EP use through my custom map workshop over in user-created content , I had historically received lots of messages that way and that really helps with the creative process, as I don’t really have to think too hard about it. It’s just quite simply implementing and polishing.

Garja I constantly have to split my AOE time between playing and making maps. Normally when I had enough of the first I come to the latter. Map making can be a long (and repetitive process) so I usually put up some good music and patiently start with the actual coding. Being also a hardcore player definitely helps in finding the motivation since I can’t wait to test a new map that looks promising.

Riki Hahaha, it’s a mood that I think every map scripter gets. You don’t script any maps during 6 months and one day randomly you start making ton of maps during 2 weeks.

Durokan As the others have said, I tend to spend the majority of my time polishing maps. The coding portion is quite fast as I have a template that is constantly being updated that I use that contains everything that I think a map could ever need. I would say map implementation can take anywhere from between a few hours to maybe ten or so for a really complicated map as far as getting the map’s identity down. But balancing, debugging, and getting it to be high quality takes substantially more time. Jebel Musa has taken the most of my time, by far, of any map I’ve worked on in both hours and as far as longest running goes, as having the idea to do that was what drove me to learn how to make map scripts.

Garja Thanks to the acquired experience, each new map takes less and less time to be coded. Unfortunately, the most time demanding part is the debugging/play testing phase which keeps taking the same amount of time regardless.

Exact time can vary from a few days to a few weeks depending on the complexity of the map and actual commitment to it.

Riki Maps can take a lot of time. Without any doubt, Herald Island has been the map which took me the most time, probably around 40 hours, because there are a lot of details. You can also do something really basic like Iowa and it takes no more than 4 hours to code it.

Durokan I tend to have a pretty strong idea of how I want the map to look as far as the shape goes before I start coding, but I often find myself thinking that I like how it turned out based on my initial implementation and that gives the map a slightly different silhouette than originally intended. I have a pocket sketchbook that I used to carry around with me that has loads of map silhouettes that I’ve never gotten around to even begin implementing and starting the process.

Garja The map making process originates from either a specific location, a specific gameplay feature, or a specific tileset. Then everything else is built around that. You know it’s going to be a good map when all those three aspects have something cool. In the past, it used to be partially different because there was also a lot of experimenting. As the map pool kept growing, we started raising the standards and nowadays we try to only include new maps that are truly worthy.

Riki It depends a lot. Sometimes, I go full creative - I don’t plan anything. Sometimes, I have something in mind and I try to script it. In both cases, 50% of the maps that I make are not released because, at the end, they don’t satisfy me. This is like art ! What becomes harder with time, is that you need to always provide a new experience to the players.

Durokan I don’t have a specific civ in mind when I create maps. I tend to create based on the silhouette of the map and then change things once I realize that a certain feature might make one civ too strong on it.

Garja One of the directions for the ESOC maps used to be “make the map as neutral as possible” in order to not affect balance. Currently, I think we changed our mind in order to provide variety and we do take in consideration the impact that new maps will have on specific civs and balance overall. The neutral criteria has, in fact, expanded to the whole map pool rather than single maps.

Riki Yes, definitely. The first ESOC maps were a bit one-sided for defensive play with a lot of hunts at base. Although not all players like it, I’ve tried to make aggressive civs more viable in the meta by having shorter maps with less resources (Iowa, Colorado, Malaysia). What is a bit sad though is that I got the feeling that Japan hasn’t totally found its place in the ESOC maps set, but I’m not a Japan player, so I can’t really be sure about that.

What are the new maps? Omg! That’s all I care about!

Durokan There are a few maps that I am working on but they are not quite ready to be released to the public.

Garja I worked on my own on three new maps. I started coding them as abstract ideas concretize in actual game features.

- Alaska is a no TP heavy water map. It has lot of resources in general and some big treasures we didn’t see yet on other maps. It covers a region that original developers didn’t consider specifically. It also uses a tileset that we hadn’t employed yet. Also, since it is a no TP water map, it fills a gap in our current map pool and that’s perhaps the main reason why it was created.

- Great Basin started from a layout feature (partial canyons) that I wanted to include in a new map. The original idea that I had in mind was a bit different, but the actual outcome turned out to be good enough to make it through. On top of that, California tileset offers so many good terrains that is a shame not to use them all. It is meant to depict Nevada-Utah mountain landscape, something that the original developers achieved with several different maps (PD, California, Texas). It is a rather big land map with a long trade route that goes from base to base. There are lot of resources, but everything is spaced across the map so it’s not exactly a map where you can sit in your base for too long.

- Parallel Rivers depicts the north western part of Yunnan province of China. China has been a region that we overlooked until now, even though it hosts lot of sites of natural and historical interest. It uses a combination of Honshu tileset and Yellow River lighting providing a unique look. It brings a sort of new layout/gameflow to the table because of the maze feeling created by cliffs and other objects. It adds to the pool of maps without TPs.

Riki Kynesie and @tit. @Kaiserklein and @n0el also helped with playtesting. I’ve always wanted to make a water map, but I never played water in the past, so I didn’t want to take the risk to do one. Players were a bit new to water gameplay, and I didn’t play water at all, so it was too hard to do it without having game experience. Recently, people started to ask for water maps, so I’ve started to play water a bit to gather some knowledge. Since I’ve always claimed that water was lame, I wanted to make a map where water and land are both viable without being too dominant. Usually on RE maps, water is too strong and on EP, land is too strong. I wanted to find the perfect balance. Wadmalaw is a map that I made with help from @and @. @and @also helped with playtesting. I’ve always wanted to make a water map, but I never played water in the past, so I didn’t want to take the risk to do one. Players were a bit new to water gameplay, and I didn’t play water at all, so it was too hard to do it without having game experience. Recently, people started to ask for water maps, so I’ve started to play water a bit to gather some knowledge. Since I’ve always claimed that water was lame, I wanted to make a map where water and land are both viable without being too dominant. Usually on RE maps, water is too strong and on EP, land is too strong. I wanted to find the perfect balance.

Click for pictures Alaska & Great Basin

Bottom: Wadmalaw & Parallel Rivers





Top:Bottom:

Garja - Alaska will certainly wink to those civs that enjoy/benefit from playing water strategies. However, given the generosity of inland resources and the rather straightforward layout, standard inland play should not suffer too much. Treasures can potentially disrupt the balance early on. Resources are generally symmetrically placed but not super safe, so it’s up to the players to find a way to secure what they need.

- Great Basin is a rather standard land map. There are only two things that might raise balance issues: the first travois passage (bottom player receives first shipment about 30 secs sooner) and the widespread resources which make the map not turtling-friendly.

- Parallel Rivers has a significantly short rush distance and easy to contain layout. So aggressive civs may have a decisive advantage on that map over commonly known defensive civs. The map has lot of chokes so I don’t expect large armies/cav armies to be too effective.

Riki About Wadmalaw, I’m really proud about what we did. I think we came up with an unusual flow, which seems really interesting strategically, because there are a lot of options available to the players. A special treasure set has been made for that map.

Garja This is a tough one. After all we do have lot of ESOC maps currently. Contrarily to others, I try to judge them from both the player and the map maker perspective. As a player, I tend to prefer maps that allow for textbook play. As a map maker, I usually value more the work of combining the existing tilesets together with including new gameplay features or a layout that we have not seen yet. In the end, my favorite map has to be one that combines all those factors. Can’t really tell one, even trying hard. I’d say it’s an even match among Arkansas, Florida, Klondike, Manchuria and Pampas Sierras. New maps are also good candidates. Least favorite map is the opposite of what just said. Probably High Plains is the objectively worse out of the bunch, being essentially just a remake.

Riki ). My least favourite is Manchac, since this map doesn’t really have something exciting on it. My favourite map is probably Thar Desert, or maybe Wadmalaw (I will see when I’ll have played it more). My least favourite is Manchac, since this map doesn’t really have something exciting on it.

Durokan I mostly work on my contributions alone until they are in a rough stage of presentableness and then Garja and Riki tend to give me loads of feedback on how to make it better. There are then cycles of creation and review until the maps are in a releasable state. I haven’t so much given solid reviews for other maps, it’s mostly on the incoming end for me.

Garja I designed one map whose original idea and layout was not mine. Fertile Crescent was Durokan’s idea originally. I just liked it and thought I could add something. In general, we tend to interact while creating new maps to gather mutual feedback and possibly some new ideas to include in the map.

Riki Kynesie. They tried the map, played on it, and gave me some feedback. We made some iterations until we agreed on the map. Usually we try to interact with each other, although we do it less than before, because we are all busy in real life. It’s really interesting to have other people’s point of view. Garja usually has good advice for whatever related to textures of the maps for instance. In this map release, since Wadmalaw is a water map, I asked help from @. They tried the map, played on it, and gave me some feedback. We made some iterations until we agreed on the map.

Durokan I haven’t really had all that much exposure to hate due to having Jebel Musa, my only map in the EP as of now, as a relatively recent-ish addition to the pool. However, I would say that objective criticism is much more helpful than being loud and badmouthing a map.

Garja Honestly, I learned to not care too much. There is always a reason to complain. Personally, I sound out the feedbacks and try to improve the maps according to what I believe makes up a good point. That said, I’m generally confident that I’ve been doing a good work and for everything pointed out there is something that has been missed about the maps.

Riki _H2O, @Kaiserklein, @Garja, @mongo10, @Mitoe, etc…). On the other hand, sometimes people lose or they just dislike the playstyle promoted by the map, so they just say that the map is bad, that’s it’s the fault of the map maker etc. They aren’t objective at all, and it starts to be more of a flame against map makers than anything else. Hahaha, well, when I create a map, my only goal is that a lot of people will enjoy playing or watching games on it. I don’t pretend that I’m perfect, so whenever a player comes to me with arguments saying that the map has an issue, I listen to him and usually I implement his idea. Probably 75% of the maps that I made have been modified thanks to constructive requests from players (@, @, @, @, @, etc…). On the other hand, sometimes people lose or they just dislike the playstyle promoted by the map, so they just say that the map is bad, that’s it’s the fault of the map maker etc. They aren’t objective at all, and it starts to be more of a flame against map makers than anything else.

Durokan I am quite excited about it. I do hope that it has good content creation support as I spend most of my time in the current game making maps as opposed to playing it.

Garja I am for sure. But I’m getting old. I’m more excited to see what they will be able to pull out rather than actually play the game.

Riki Yes really. I have a good feeling that Microsoft will have learnt from their mistakes and they will make a great opus. I’ll be active on AOE4 for sure.

Durokan Though it’s not as active as it once was, my map workshop is still being maintained, so go check it out

Garja Looking forward to see how the new maps will be played in the next big tourney.

Riki Yeah, my dream is that we could have textures available which would allow both warships and land units to go, like the kind of shallows we got in AOE1. We could make crazy map patterns with that feature.

Bonus musketjr : "some say the universe is even bigger than the space between the starting TC and second hunt on fertile crescent." More dense forests have been added to Florida. Manchuria is slightly bigger and new possible mine layouts have been added. The cliffs are smaller on Pampas Sierras. The second mine is now closer to the TC and hunts can also be closer. Not only are new maps being released, but little tweaks have been made to some of the previous maps. Adirondacks has had a water flag added to it, along with more fish, but less hunts. There’s also a 3rd bay at the top where one can build docks. Arizona has received a general reskinning. A couple desert areas were added, the forest layout was changed, and the cliff is smaller. Cascade Range has been given more fish, a water flag, and the lakes have been reshaped. The central native posts have also been moved. The second hunt on Fertile Crescent is now closer than it was so perhaps this quote is no longer applicable: @: "some say the universe is even bigger than the space between the starting TC and second hunt on fertile crescent." More dense forests have been added to Florida. Manchuria is slightly bigger and new possible mine layouts have been added. The cliffs are smaller on Pampas Sierras. The second mine is now closer to the TC and hunts can also be closer.

ESOC Patch Updates With this version, we are looking to do slightly more than address civ-specific balance issues. There are two things we wish to improve with more general changes.



First, the option to build more Town Centers in fortress age. We are not seeing much build order variety in fortress age because it’s often the age where players want full military in order to take map control. The Town Center plays into this very well, as a building which can both serve to take map control and as a way of booming which is good for build variety. TC cost has been reduced to 500 wood.



Second, we want to continue to address water balance issues. The main focus of these changes is to reduce the current large discrepancy between civs in the strength of their water play. We want to make water an option for every civ and stronger as an addition to the land economy rather than a replacement, by making fishing boats more affordable. Additionally, Culverin damage against ships has been buffed by 25%. While we do not expect these changes to completely resolve the situation, we are confident they will considerably improve it.



General

- Town Center cost decreased to 500w (down from 600w)

- Culverin multiplier against warships increased to 12.5 (up from 10)

- Fishing Boat cost decreased to 70w (down from 100w)

- "Schooners" shipment effect changed from "-60% Fishing Boat cost" to "-20w Fishing Boat cost and -20% train time" (decreases train points from 25 to 20)

- Canoe range & line-of-sight decreased from 20 and 24 to 18 and 22 respectively

- War Canoe range & line-of-sight decreased from 30 and 34 to 25 and 29 respectively

- "European Cannons" shipment effect changed from "+20% warship attack and +5 warship range & line-of-sight" to "+30% warship attack"

- "Offshore Support" shipment effect changed from "+20% warship attack and +5 warship range & line-of-sight" to "+20% warship attack and +2 warship range & line-of-sight"

- "Admiralty" shipment effect changed from increased warship build limit to "Dock warship improvements cost & train points halved"



Chinese

- "Old Han Reforms" shipment cost removed



Germans

Germans are currently considered one of the strongest civs. We still see an unhealthy reliance on Uhlans in German play. Because we feel that the initial HP nerf is the right direction, we decreased their HP back to 180. Because this turned out to be a slight overnerf the last time we did it, compensation has been added in the form of a doppelsoldner buff. With this, we hope to encourage more build order variety as well as more variety in the German army.



- Uhlan hit points decreased to 180 (down from 185)

- Doppelsoldner hit points increased to 240 (up from 230)



Indians

We noticed that Indians seem to rely heavily on the early strength of the Sepoy. Whenever they don’t, in most match ups they find themselves coming up slightly short. Because we feel that India already has good versatility, a general buff seems the best way to change them. In line with existing civ design, their house cost has been decreased. Because this is a buff to Sepoy-based builds as well and Sepoy are already dominant, we decreased their HP.



- Sepoy hit points decreased to 180 (down from 190).

- House: Cost decreased to 50w (down from 80w). Hit points decreased to 800 (down from 1200)



Ottomans

Otto continues to be a challenge to balance. For this civ, we want to make sure that they have more options than all out aggression.

Mosque cost has been reverted back to 100w and we kept the higher XP income because it means that Otto will be able to consistently send 3v and Silk Road without having to wait for the first colonial shipment. Because this is a buff to all of their build orders including the early pressure builds, Janissary HP is nerfed. Their cost has also been decreased which means they will be just as cost-effective, but pressure builds with Janissaries will be weaker in the early game because Janissary shipments are indirectly nerfed and you can still only make 5 at a time from the barracks.

To keep the option for early pressure intact, no changes have been made to the speed of Otto’s build order.



- Mosque cost reverted to 100w (down from 150w)

- Janissary hit points decreased to 210 (down from 235)

- Janissary cost decreased to 90f-25c (down from 100f-25c)



Sioux

We believe Sioux may already be in a good place balance-wise, or close to it, so we have opted for small changes which are largely quality of life improvements and will hopefully encourage players to try the civ. Both changes are in line with previous ones, where we have also opted to increase the speed of their infantry and encourage the use of their unique building.



- Teepee aura range (attack, hit points and gather rate) increased to 24 (up from 18)

- Wakina Rifle speed increased to 5 (up from 4)



Spanish

When we see Spanish in high level games, which is rarely, they still seem to rely on early fortress aggression. In order to give them more economic options we have (along with the TC cost buff) decided to add a new unique shipment with a clear focus on long-term play. Spanish early fortress aggression is unchanged, and therefore still an option.



- "Spanish Gold" shipment effect replaced with: "Grants 400 coin with every shipment starting with this one." Availability changed from Industrial to Fortress Age.

Goodspeed Mostly suggestions by other players. A lot of changes this iteration were suggestions by Zoi. Some of them were changes we have been wanting to do for a while, but have been putting off. The TC change I thought of while driving. There are some rules we stick to for changes, some strict and some loose. One thing we do is when we buff a civ, we try to do it in a way that makes use of something that is unique to them. So when thinking of changes, I mostly think about what is unique about this civ and would also have the right effect if we buffed it.

Zoom I only really consider what goodspeed tells me is the goal, since he makes that decision after talking to good players and looking at tournament data as well. So to answer your question, it's not very relevant a question in my case, but that is what I consider. The decision on what is to change - typically civs or specific units.

Goodspeed I would like to see every civ played an equal amount in tourney games. I recognize that this isn’t possible since some just aren’t as popular, but that’s the ideal situation. I would also like for all civs to have multiple options. When a civ only does well with one playstyle, it becomes easily counterable. Lastly, whenever possible (but not too frequently because it will move us further away from the RE patch), I want to make quality of life improvements that make the game overall more fun to play. The earlier dragoon nerf, water changes and TC change in this iteration are good examples of this.

Zoom Coming up with changes and balancing goals are really intertwined. it's all about figuring out, roughly, what you want to do; assessing overall inter-civ balance status, determining which civs to change in a given iteration, determining how to change them – what you want to do, in general and in particular. I'm largely detached from the two former steps, and then give suggestions on ways in which change(s) can be made. Sometimes it takes more creative thinking than others, like with the "spanish gold" change. Although, that one I had in my piggy bank of balancing changes. I will say, though, that my personal goal for balancing is improving on it, while making the game more fun to play, by changing what civilizations are overpowered, underpowered, or somehow broken (inherently problematic to balance or gameplay), respectively.

Eaglemut Buckethead did help, mainly by giving useful advice. He's also put in the fix for EP games not always being recognized on the ESOC ladders.



Riki and Garja have done a ton of work on maps, both in fixing existing problems and in creating fresh new content.



@_NiceKING_ is also back with another Treaty Patch balance update.



Then there's the EP Network Hook project. The idea, along with a basic implementation, was already done by @musketeer925 months ago. However, he unfortunately just didn't have the time to finish it up into a releasable state. I found the concept most interesting and eventually decided to pick up the project myself, to polish it enough for inclusion in EP4. As I was making progress, other devs got a bit hooked on it as well; soon we've had Bucket & @Ashvin working on a new API and graphical interface to make maximum use of the hook data. Even musketeer925 himself found time in his schedule and came in to help me solve some of the more peculiar issues. It's been great seeing this project spark such excitement.



I'd like to take a moment here to thank all the involved contributors for working together on creating the best experience for our community.



The remaining changes were implemented by me, including; all balance changes, all new launcher features, all game bugfixes and finally King of the Hill implementation on all current ESOC maps, aside from the four maps that already had it done. did help, mainly by giving useful advice. He's also put in the fix for EP games not always being recognized on the ESOC ladders.Riki and Garja have done a ton of work on maps, both in fixing existing problems and in creating fresh new content.is also back with another Treaty Patch balance update.Then there's the EP Network Hook project. The idea, along with a basic implementation, was already done by @months ago. However, he unfortunately just didn't have the time to finish it up into a releasable state. I found the concept most interesting and eventually decided to pick up the project myself, to polish it enough for inclusion in EP4. As I was making progress, other devs got a bit hooked on it as well; soon we've had Bucket & @working on a new API and graphical interface to make maximum use of the hook data. Even musketeer925 himself found time in his schedule and came in to help me solve some of the more peculiar issues. It's been great seeing this project spark such excitement.I'd like to take a moment here to thank all the involved contributors for working together on creating the best experience for our community.The remaining changes were implemented by me, including; all balance changes, all new launcher features, all game bugfixes and finally King of the Hill implementation on all current ESOC maps, aside from the four maps that already had it done.

Eaglemut Looking back through the time logs, I would estimate my time spent to about 80 hours. Considering that I was working on my part for about two weeks, I would say that's quite a lot of hours packed there. I'm gonna need some sleep after we get this released.

Goodspeed I love all of the TAD civs but nothing beats good old Brit.

Zoom My favorite civ to play would have to be China, at least nowadays

Eaglemut India. I guess this comes as no big surprise to anyone who's seen me play some games, or just checked out my stats on ELO. This goes back to 2015 when ESOC was founded, which made me return into this game and transition onto TAD. India was the first expansion civ I tried out, and I instantly fell in love. I feel like India is the most versatile civilization in the game, having such a tremendous amount of viable options. All the other civs I just play from time to time, I don't think I have a clear second or third favorite.

While the previous applied to standard Supremacy, India is also actually the only civilization I play in Treaty. India acts as a rather dynamic civ over there, good strategic decisions can sweep the game in a big way, and I like that.

Goodspeed Probably also British, often games with them in it are strategically pretty interesting. India I also love to watch, because they have so many different build order variations in colonial. Players have a lot of small decisions to make so it’s interesting to see what they choose.

Zoom I like watching any civ, really. I just don't like playing or watching mirrors. My favorite ones to watch would be Aztecs, Chinese, Indians and Spanish. Picking just one, I would have to say Spain. I just like the Spanish unit comp with missionaries. I think it's really cool.

Eaglemut That's gotta be India as well. Reiterating on what I said above, there's just a lot of interesting stuff to see. I'm always up to witness Aizamk's rajputs slashing through enemies, Ryan just making elephants and surgeons, or the Wicked Cossack showcasing some water play.

Goodspeed I have argued for Brit nerfs for a while, but it was never popular among the team. Mostly though I want to make changes that people might just agree with, but are too game-changing and would bring the EP meta too far from the RE meta. 2 changes in particular: Nerfing all musketeer-type units, and nerfing all ranged cavalry units (with some exceptions).

Zoom I wanted to nerf dragoon cost, rather than ranged resistance. I think nobody agreed on that. I also wanted to nerf uhlan cost, rather than than hp, but plenty of people agree on that. In fact, uhlan hp nerf is shit, because it seems that almost no one likes it.

Eaglemut For quite some time, I really wanted to include Omkar's building mod Omkar’s building mod . I even put quite some effort into finding out how the models work, how it could best be done, what technical issues to get through, etc. I thought of it like a sort of AoE3:EP:HD. However, it turned out that this would be impossible to include as an optional thing where one player would have the new models and the other didn't. As seemingly no one (aside from me) was fine with including it on EP as a hardcoded change the user couldn't switch off, I dropped it before going further.