Dave Meltzer is one of the most well known and respected inside sources in wrestling and publisher of the Wrestling Observer. On Saturday, Aug. 14, he shared his thoughts on the wrestling business and his business with Mike Samuda.

MIKE: How long have you been doing the Observer, and what was the impetus to get it started?

MELTZER: ... [The Observer] I started in 1982. I was in college at the time, and I was really getting into tape trading, and I was writing the same letters to so many different people that I just figured, well if I just did a newsletter, I can send it to these people who I'm trading tapes with, that will actually save me some time. And also I thought, you know, when you got to see tapes from all the different regions, there was a different perspective on wrestling than most people had, because most people weren't watching tapes in those days, VCRs were relatively new. So most people knew names, most of the hardcore fans knew names of the guys in other territories, but they didn't actually see them wrestle because wrestling was so regionalized ... unless they were the wrestlers from their own territory, and there really wasn't a lot of people understanding who was good, who was bad, who was getting pushed because he was, you know, the promoter's son, you know what I mean?

MIKE: Right.

MELTZER: So I was the first one to pretty much ... I wouldn't say I'm the first one to write like that, but I was the first one to write like that on that level. There was actually a guy named Norman Dooley who was Jim Cornette's best friend, who did a newsletter before I did called Weasel's World, that did basically a lot of the same basic stuff and a lot of the same attitude that I had with the Observer. But people don't know about it because it wasn't as well publicized. You know, like with the star ratings and things like that, that was actually Jim Cornette's invention. That wasn't mine.

MIKE: Really?

MELTZER: Yeah. Jim Cornette was the one who came up with that, and Norman Dooley was doing it for years before I ever did. I didn't invent that by any means.

MIKE: Norman Dooley, that's the first I've heard of him.

MELTZER: He was hilarious. He was like Bryan Alvarez or something ... very similar. I mean he was just a young guy who was just hilarious.

MIKE: So what was the reaction of those in the wrestling business, including the wrestlers when the newsletters came about?

MELTZER: They absolutely hated it in those days. It was just something that was so foreign to them. They didn't like newsletters anyway that were like traditional fanzines. There was stuff going back probably since the beginning of time, I couldn't even tell you how long, but I know as long as I had been a fan, there were plenty of newsletters, and the people in wrestling never liked those because they thought any information that the fans got would make them ... would expose the business, and then they wouldn't be fans anymore -- you know, the most important thing to keep wrestling strong is for nobody to get any information on wrestling at all. That's how the attitude was and how ridiculously behind -- I used to laugh at how stupid that was, but that's how they saw things, and then me, saying that wrestling was what it was ... to a lot of people I was like public enemy No. 1 at the beginning.

I wouldn't say across the board, because Bill Watts, from the very beginning loved the Observer, and he encouraged all the guys to get the Observer. Because I can tell you that when Mid-South, I'm thinking about '84-ish, basically one-third or three-quarters of the guys in the territory were subscribers of the Observer in those days. Now obviously, it was Bill Watts' encouragement, and they all read it and it was sort of considered ... in that territory it was ... I know that it was sort of considered bad to talk to me, but they all read everything. You know what I mean?

MIKE: Right.

MELTZER: It was considered bad, but Watts encouraged them to read it to learn about the business. So whatever attitude was like that ... I don't know. But in those days Crockett, McMahon, Watts, every promoter was reading the Observer. McMahon did it through Howard Finkel, but Crockett subscribed; Watts got it; they all got it. Eddie Graham was getting it, all the big promoters were getting it, except for ... probably Verne Gagne wasn't, and he might have been too, so I don't even know. Pretty much, most of the big promoters were getting it in those days.

MIKE: Do you still get a negative reaction from wrestlers for what you do?

MELTZER: Not directly. It just depends on the last thing you wrote about them now more than ... I think there are some older wrestlers who think of the Observer as bad, but probably couldn't even rationalize the reason as to why anymore. I think that there are some wrestlers who don't like some of the news. I heard that when I did the thing on Outside the Lines, some people didn't like it, but it's like when you're telling the truth, and people don't like it, that's too bad. I think it just depends on the last thing I wrote. I'm sure there's plenty that don't, but it's not really something that concerns me. Because if I was worried about what wrestlers thought when I wrote the Observer, then the Observer would be really bad. I mean it would be worthless really.



Though there have been occasions where wrestlers have voiced displeasure with The Observer, Dave Meltzer says there haven't been too many problems. (WOW)

MIKE: Is it difficult to remain neutral when you're reporting the news?

MELTZER: I don't think there's such a thing as neutral. You do the best you can. There's not such a thing as neutral. You can't be. There's too many ways of seeing things; you're influenced by the people you talk with. I mean you do the best you can, and you try, but as far as neutral, there's no such thing as neutral.

MIKE: Some time ago Kevin Nash made a remark about you, and I wanted to get your response on it. Now this is the quote: "Another one of the "critically-acclaimed experts" from the Inside Edition piece was some job-guy who's never been in a locker room, never been close enough to any of the top guys to know what really goes on. This, of course, is Dave Meltzer, who writes a dirt-sheet, making a living off what people tell him because, as I said, he's not around us, not in the locker room. But then again, what do I know ... I'm only a pro wrestler." What's your response to that?

MELTZER: I don't really think I need to respond to that because it's silly. I don't feel the need to respond to Kevin Nash. It's just like ... just put it in its frame of reference of Bill Clinton saying that to a reporter, or someone like an NFL player saying it to a reporter ... like saying the reporter is a job guy ... you know it's like I'm the best wrestling reporter out there, and I've been in locker rooms, and whether I have or haven't, it doesn't matter. He knows, and everyone knows that I talk to everyone, and you know - whatever. Why even bother?

MIKE: Has a wrestling personality ever confronted you face to face in a physical or violent manner over anything you wrote or said?

MELTZER: No. There are stories around that it has happened, but it actually never has. I've been threatened on the phone many many many times. But as far as in person, never.

MIKE: [laughs] Ok. How many hours of work is necessary for each Observer? Or what sort --?

MELTZER: It varies, and it's basically ... it's more than a full-time job. It's pretty much all day every day [laughs].

MIKE: Would you say that you've made an inordinate amount of sacrifices in terms of your personal life because of what you do?

MELTZER: Absolutely. I don't think anyone in the world understands the amount of sacrifices I've made. Unbelievable sacrifices. I respect the fact that wrestlers sacrifice a lot by doing what they do, but I would be willing to guarantee that there's no one who has sacrificed any more -- there are people who have sacrificed as much as me in wrestling, without question, but I've sacrificed as much as anyone else. I would think that ... I don't know how much Vince McMahon works personally, because I haven't ever worked alongside him, but I know of his reputation. I know he works very, very hard. I know Paul Heyman works very, very hard. I would think that I probably work as hard as they do, or close to as hard as they do anyway.

MIKE: In regards to dedication, in terms of putting out the Observer, and you can correct me if I'm wrong here, but I believe there was a controversial comment you made some time ago, something to the effect of no one else has the dedication to do what you do, what was that comment? Do you remember?

MELTZER: [They] asked me who was going to be next Dave Meltzer, and I just couldn't come up with a name. I think people got mad that I didn't, but I mean there's people out there that are good writers, and there's more than ever because of the internet. There's more people who are writing about wrestling than ever before. I mean it's totally different. When I was starting to do it, there was nobody doing it. Now there's ... in the last couple of years, there's just been an explosion of people.

Obviously, some of them are going to be really good, and some of them are going to end up being really dedicated. But I think that when I said that, I meant it, but I think that probably is going to change. Naturally, as more and more people do something like this that someone, you know, there's gonna be some dedicated people that are gonna be really good writers, and they're gonna learn the business. It's just natural, but I couldn't come up with any names. Like Bryan Alvarez is really, really funny. To me, of all the people out there, he's my favorite to read. I think Bruce Mitchell's a better writer, but Bryan Alvarez is just very very funny, [so he's very entertaining].

MIKE: Do you see yourself doing the Observer for the next 25 years?

MELTZER: I couldn't even say. 25 years is such a long time. Who knows what wrestling is going to be in 25 years. I don't see myself stopping. I mean I don't give consideration to stopping any time soon, but 25 years I don't know ... [laughs] that's a long time.

MIKE: When was the last time (if ever) you took a week off from writing the newsletter?

MELTZER: Well, I've never taken a vacation or anything like that. But a couple of times I took weeks off ... when I went on a trip like in '96 when I went to Japan ... and I took a week off because I was in Japan, and then I came back and did a double issue. I think that may have been the last time actually. I've never missed a planned issue that I can remember ... ever, and that included almost dying a couple of times and not missing any issues [laughs]. I mean I had appendicitis, and I did the issue, got the operation, and came back, like as soon as I got out of the hospital, I came back and did the next issue. The other time when I almost died ... I actually was supposed to take a week off, so there would have been one week where I would have missed in '93, I was planning on going to Japan for two weeks, so I was going to skip a week ... as it turned out, that week I was in the hospital, and almost died, and that week I missed, and the minute I got out of the hospital, I came back and did a double-issue. I don't even know how I did it, because ... Jesus Christ ... after two weeks there's enough to say.

MIKE: I read recently that you're 39, practically an old man, so I don't think this question would apply to you now, well I guess it could for WCW ... but some readers want to know if you had any aspirations of becoming a professional wrestler since you appear to be in great physical condition?

MELTZER: No, I never wanted to be a wrestler. I was always a writer when I was a kid. I was going to be a sports writer no matter what. It just ended up being wrestling. If it wasn't that, it would have been football. I mean that's what I could have ended up doing. But no, I never ever ... I always admired wrestlers, as far as what they could do and how hard they train to do it. I never wanted to be a wrestler. If anything, one of the things I don't like about today's wrestling is that some people have been able to get in basically off the street. To me when I was younger, and when I was following wrestling, to me it's not ... it's a profession that you shouldn't be able to walk off the street and into a main event. And now, some people have been able to do that, and I think it's kinda too bad. You know, where they kind of emulate a few things they see on TV, but they don't actually know how to wrestle. Sometimes when they're celebrities -- and some of the celebrities actually have done real well, but to me ... I don't know ... if you go in there like Rodman did last year and just go in there in no condition to perform, and then make a joke out of it, I think that's like really sad. And then you get asked back a year later ... I think that's kinda sad.

MIKE: How long have you been watching wrestling?

MELTZER: 29 years.

MIKE: And you remember the first match you saw.

MELTZER: Yeah. The first match I saw would have been ... I don't remember the first TV match I saw ... I vaguely remember, it would have been San Francisco wrestling obviously, but the first live match I saw would have been in early '71, and it was [Glen Shelly against Les Roberts?] in San Jose Civic Auditorium. The main event was Pat Patterson, Billy Graham and Paul Demarco against Rocky Johnson, Peter Maivia and Ray Stevens. Actually, some pretty noteworthy figures in the main event.

MIKE: 39 and still single Dave? What's up with that, and did the Observer have anything to do with it?

MELTZER: I hope it didn't, but it probably did [laughs]. I have a girlfriend and everything like that ---

MIKE: Is she a wrestling fan?

MELTZER: No, she hates wrestling.

MIKE: [laughs]

MELTZER: Believe it or not, she really likes Ultimate Fights, and she absolutely hates professional wrestling. That has its problems, but ... [laughs].

MIKE: What are your plans for the internet?

MELTZER: I don't have any specific plans for the internet right now, other than I'm gonna obviously put up a website just because I have to be up there. As far as what I'm gonna do when I'm up there, I don't anticipate ... I only have so many hours a day and for me to go all the way on the internet, I would have to give up the Observer. I mean that's just all there is to it, and right now, I think it would be stupid for me to give up the Observer. When the time comes ... I can see at some point in time, whether it be 5 years of 10 years, or maybe never, I can see the Observer on the internet ... you know a daily Observer on the internet ... in many ways I would rather do a daily Observer on the internet than the weekly Observer the way it is. I think it's just a lot more modern, but right now, it's not the time that I can do that, and I can't give up the Observer Newsletter ... I mean I can't. It's just impossible right now. It would make absolutely no sense to do it; it's doing great.

MIKE: Are you a regular internet surfer?

MELTZER: Not that regular, no. I mean I talk to people all day and night, so anything big that's out there I'm gonna find out ... no I don't spend that much time on the internet.

MIKE: Why do you think it has taken you so long to get on the internet?

MELTZER: Because I spend so much time on the Observer. It's just a matter of time. You know, there are only so many hours in a day, and the Observer pretty much takes up all my time.

MIKE: Do you have any opinion on what effect the internet has had on professional wrestling?

MELTZER: It's had a huge huge effect. For one thing, I think it's caused storylines to be a lot more smart-oriented. It caused the business to be a lot more open. I mean there are no secrets anymore, or even two three years ago, everybody was trying to keep things a secret. It's caused a new level of conning by the people in wrestling. Now they try to con directly to the internet. Before it was like a total con where they would pretend like wrestling was real. Now it's like, it's not, but they try to get their little storylines over as being "of course we know it's all a work, but this is a shoot." And wrestlers would do that too. They'll use the internet, and people will think, you know these two guys, they really don't like each other, and half the time, that's a work too.

MIKE: What about newsletters? What's the effect they have had on pro wrestling?

MELTZER: That's really hard for me to say. For the people who read them, they look at wrestling in a different way. I think they become a lot more of a loyal fan. I don't think there's any question. I mean, I have readers who have been readers from day one, and it's not like they're not wrestling fans today. I think it lengthens your ... because it gives you more depth of interest in wrestling, it lengthens your stay. Traditionally, people are wrestling fans for two or three years then move on. That's the typical length. I think that newsletter readers probably stay for 6 or 7 years, because there's more to it, they see it in a deeper way, and therefore they're willing to stay longer before they kind of get tired of it, and move on to something else I guess.

MIKE: Do you subscribe to the other newsletters like the Torch and --?

MELTZER: You know I read the Torch every week. Yeah. I read The Torch, Figure Four ... I'm trying to think which other one ---

MIKE: The Lariat?

MELTZER: No, I haven't read The Lariat in years. Tim Whitehead has sent me some of his stories though, but I haven't actually read The Lariat in years. What else? Wrestling Perspective - those guys send me their issues, so I read that. I read Georgiann Makropoulos' newsletter because she sends me that. I can't really think of any others off hand. I'm probably slighting someone, but those are the one that come to my mind.

MIKE: Do you consider those guys to be your competition? What are your opinions on what Wade Keller has done with the Torch, and you mentioned Bryan --?

MELTZER: I think Wade Keller is a good businessman. I don't think ... in a sense you could say he's competition, and I don't consider him to be competition, because I don't consider what he does and what I do are all that similar. To me The Torch is more geared for --- it's kind of like a USA Today and a New York Times thing ... to me. The Torch is kind of geared towards a more casual audience, it's not really as ... and I don't want to knock it, but it's geared towards a more casual audience. Except for Bruce Mitchell's stuff, there's nothing really ... any deep analysis in there. Wade Keller sometimes does deep analysis pieces, but like the headline stories and stuff, just by the nature of how his headline stories are just basically going to be the first page, and mine can go on for pages and pages.

I have the luxury by not being laid out in a professional manner to go on and on and on, and be a lot more deeper in the stories. I think The Observer is more for people who really want to know in depth what's going on. I think that it's the only one, because Bryan Alvarez only has 4 pages - he doesn't have the space to be doing this. Wade Keller has the space, but the way he formats it, he really doesn't have the space. Every now and then he could do the space when he wants to, and when he wants to he can do a really good job. But as far as in depth of the major stories, it's just a different thing. I have the luxury of going more in depth and my coverage is more international, because that's just how The Observer is. His is more of the Big 3 in the United States, which is maybe more marketable to more people in some ways, but to me, the world is the world, I'm not just trying to write ... I'm writing for people who are hardcore wrestling fans who want to learn about wrestling, and I think that he's writing for people who just kind of want to know the news, but not necessarily learn a lot more.

MIKE: There have always been reports, on the internet basically, that there's friction between you and Keller? Why is that? Do you think it's because of the nature of what you guys do?

MELTZER: I think that maybe ... I mean seriously, there's no friction between me and Wade Keller at all ... that I know of. I mean I don't think that there is. We don't talk hardly at all, but when we do talk we're ... we get along really good. We talked ... oh god, I don't know, I'm thinking two, three weeks ago was the last time we talked. But I have no friction ... Wade Keller ... I'm very proud of what Wade Keller has done with his newsletter, don't get me wrong, as far as marketing and all that. And he has done some really good stories. I don't necessarily agree with his opinions on a lot of things and vice versa, and some things ... you know I probably agree with his opinions more than half the time, but when I disagree, I disagree, and that's fine.

MIKE: Now what about Dave Scherer? Now we know there's something there.

MELTZER: I don't deal with Dave Scherer so there really is nothing there. I mean there might be something there from his side. He used to write me letters threatening to sue me and things like that, but to me it's just like ... there's people -- my life is too short, and my time is too short that if I was the kind of person that wanted to get into --- I don't have the time to get in silly feuds with people. And you know like Mike Lano or Dave Scherer or some people like that who try to goad me and stuff, it's just like ... I don't have time for it. I've got to be doing the newsletter every ... I've got to do 18 pages every week; I don't have time for this stuff. So, you know, I don't really think about it at all ... ever, to be honest with you.

MIKE: How do you answer your critics who have said that your methods for rating matches are archaic?

MELTZER: Everyone's entitled to their opinion [chuckle]. I'll tell you as match opinions go, that's completely subjective, that's like arguing movie reviewer's movie ratings. It's all subjective, it's just my opinion. It's no better or worse than anyone else's.

MIKE: I think that one came from Vince Russo. He's always seemed to have a problem with you, why is that? Do you know?

MELTZER: I think ... Vince Russo, to me, I think he has no guts, and I'll tell you why. Everyone knows basically, in most of his columns, probably every other one ... I couldn't tell you how much, but it seems like in every one, or every other one of his columns, you know he'll make some remark about that guy in California who doesn't know anything and this and this. And it's like, if he's got anything to say -- and you know he's entitled to his opinion about me, that's fine -- if he has anything to say, he should mention my name and say what he disagrees with and try to say this is why I disagree with him instead of doing this childish "oh that guy in California ..." whatever these insults ... the insult is of the month. Make your point. What's the deal? He doesn't have the guts to say my name, and if it's not worth saying my name, why waste the space in print. And to me, what really was ... he did a column a couple moths ago, maybe a year ago, on Bruce Mitchell, and he never mentioned Bruce Mitchell's name, he never mentioned ... you know what I mean, it's like you're ripping on a guy for a full page or two, and you don't mention the guys name, it's like - what's that?

I don't have any problem with anyone who wants to say anything bad about me as far as, he said this, this is why it's wrong, this is why it's right. But don't be out there going like, "Oh he could never make it in the real world." ... whatever that means ... or these insults, or without ever addressing what I said. Like the deal on the ESPN Outside the Lines thing, I don't remember exactly what he wrote about it, but it was something like, "This guy goes on all these TV shows and says all these bad things about wrestling." I go on TV and radio and I say good things about wrestling, bad things on wrestling. I answer questions that are thrown to me, and he had heat over me reciting something that was just a statistical thing, which he wouldn't even address what it was that I said, because he has to run from it. He can't address ... you know there is a very sad fact about a number of wrestlers that have died. A lot of wrestlers have died at a very young age, much quicker than nearly any other segment of society practically ... except for drug dealers or something, I don't know.

It's a statistical fact that I was repeating, and just going look, if this was in baseball, or football, or basketball, this is how many deaths it would be, and the media would be reacting very different to it. And then he's out there -- address what I said -- I made a point. It's not a personal vendetta against anyone. It's just what it is, now tell me what are you going to do to change that? Here's a guy who's one of the more powerful people in the wrestling industry, and here's the fact, and it's like if you don't like the fact, what are you going to do to change it? You can't argue that the fact is wrong because we all know that the fact isn't wrong, it's just a fact. Don't try to go out and insult the messenger. By insulting the messenger, you're basically admitting that you can't defend your point.

Vince Russo has done a tremendous job of writing television. You can't deny that, which surprised me, because I knew him a little bit before he worked for the WWF ... not very well, but a little bit, and I must say that I never imagined that he would be this influential in wrestling and obviously he has been -

MIKE: Actually, that was my next question. Are you surprised by his success?

MELTZER: Of him writing television?

MIKE: Yeah.

MELTZER: Yeah. Absolutely. Based on what I knew before, I would have never imagined it. He did a newsletter and - this sounds like a knock - but he did a newsletter and I think it lasted like two or three issues. He couldn't even write a newsletter. He couldn't even write a newsletter, but he is, and you can't deny it, he's writing this television show every week and the ratings speak for themselves.

MIKE: Do you know the events which led to him getting a chance to script the TV shows?

MELTZER; I think basically he sat in at meetings, and he had good ideas. I'm willing to believe, and I know this, there's a lot of people out there ... a lot of people that I've know through the years, that are creative people, who I think could have done similar jobs to him or maybe better had they been given the same opportunity just like in every aspect ... it's like with Eric and everything. Eric Bischoff had a big run and everything and you can't deny he took a $30 million company to a $200 million a year company. Now it's back down, but you can't deny that he really revitalized that company, and at the same time, I'm sure there's plenty of other people who could have done the same thing. It's not like ... it's more of a deal with these people who are in power in wrestling. To me it's more of ... people who are competent and survive (obviously because there are plenty have failed), but also they had a chance. Like I said, I've talked to a lot of people who are very very very creative, just wrestling fans, who could script TV shows ... I think ... and write and do angles. I know people who've come up angles like bing bing bing bing bing ... not a lot of people, but they're incredible ... but they'll never get a chance to do it.

MIKE: I know this may come off as a silly question, but do you consider yourself to be a diehard pro wrestling fan still? And I ask that because another criticism I've read about you is that because you've made some negative comments about pro wrestling to the media, you have no "allegiance" to wrestling. Is this just a job for you? I mean do you still enjoy watching wrestling as you did years ago?

MELTZER: As a reporter, I only have an allegiance to the truth as I see it. That's my only allegiance, whether I like it or don't like it. There are wrestlers that I like personally that are good friends of mine that I rip their ability, or say that they have bad matches, and I like them. When I'm doing the Observer, and when I'm on a TV show, when they ask me a question, I feel that it is not my place to sugar coat what wrestling is, or lie about the problems of wrestling, or try to ignore that they exist. I don't think that's my job, and I think if I did that, some people might like me more, but that people who understand the business really, would lose all their respect for me. I don't really have any other choice.

The minute ... there's a lot of people in wrestling who can survive being dishonest, and I can't, because the minute I don't have credibility, I'm dead. I can't be dishonest, and I don't want to be. And luckily for me, I have no need to be. I have no financial pressures to be dishonest about wrestling. So if you ask me a question about something negative about wrestling, I'm not going to lie and say it's positive and try to spin it, and if you ask me something positive about wrestling, I'm going to talk what's positive about wrestling. As far as - am I a fan of wrestling? Yes.

MIKE: Who does Dave Meltzer still mark out for in the top three promotions in the US?

MELTZER: Mark out is not really the word. I'm entertained by anyone who works hard and has a good match. It's different people every Monday night. If they do a good interview or whatever. I'm entertained by people who are entertaining. I'm not entertained by people who are self serving, I guess.

MIKE: Have you ever seen a more impressive debut than last Monday for Chris Jericho? What was your reaction to that?

MELTZER: I've seen a debut that's as impressive as that. I mean, I thought he did very very good. It wasn't the greatest interview in wrestling or anything like that. It wasn't like when Ric Flair came back to Greenville, and the crowd went insane. That was like a moment. Jericho did really really good. I don't think it was anything off the charts.

MIKE: But you think he made the right decision?

MELTZER: To go? There's no question that he made the right decision. It's almost too bad because WCW needed him far more than the WWF. I think it's sad for WCW, because I want to see both companies do well, and I think for WCW to do well, people like him --- they need people like him. They needed him more than the WWF needed him, and when you need someone more than the other guy, and the other guy gets him, that's a really bad sign ... especially because WCW did not really go after him to get him. WCW is so stupid, they didn't even realize that they needed him more than the other guys. To me that was really sad for WCW. For Chris Jericho, there's no question he made the right choice. Anyone who looks at the landscape can see that WCW just isn't going to give a guy like Chris Jericho a chance to go on top, and WWF will, and hey, he's a young guy, he's gotta go. I'm sure he's not second-guessing his move at all right now.

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