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SALT LAKE CITY — Former CIA Director Gen. Michael Hayden called Russian hacking of American elections a "covert influence campaign" but not one designed to engineer a certain outcome.

"I am not prepared, based on what I know to date, to conclude that the Russians are trying to delegitimize the election," he said. "I think they're just playing with our heads."

Hayden, who also led the National Security Agency, spoke to state law enforcement and national security leaders at a conference in Salt Lake City on Wednesday at the invitation of Sen. Orrin Hatch, R-Utah.

Hayden shared his views on Russian computer hacking, presidential candidates Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton and the reported death of a top Islamic State group leader in an interview with the Deseret News.

Hayden counted himself among those who believe Russia is behind two recent attempts to breach voter registration databases in Arizona and Illinois that includes the theft of as many as 200,000 voter records in Illinois.

He described the theft as "honorable" espionage, and said that if he could steal that kind of information from a powerful adversary of the United States, "I would have done it in a heartbeat."

"In regard to the theft of the data, shame on us. We're supposed to keep our secrets secret, not shame on the Russians," he said.

What changes in this situation, Hayden said, is how the information is used. It's one thing to steal data to learn, it's another thing to "weaponize" the information to affect processes in another government.

"We would call that in American parlance a covert influence campaign," he said.

Hayden thinks the hacking is part of Russian President Vladimir Putin's overall campaign to re-establish the Russian Federation globally, and he's using it to "poke at the Americans."

Putin, he said, thinks the U.S. does it to Russia all the time, but that's not true. "Since he thought we did, it's his way of saying, 'I can play, too,'" Hayden said.

The U.S. government is reluctant to say the Russians did it because it's not ready to say what it would do about it, he said.

After a fact-finding trip to Russia in August, Rep. Chris Stewart, R-Utah, raised concerns about Russian hackers having an impact on the upcoming election, describing Russia as "incredibly active with cyberattacks" and citing the recent compromise of Democratic National Committee computers.

Stewart, a member of the House Intelligence Committee, said he feared there could be an effort to create chaos and uncertainty about the presidential election results. Like Hayden, he doesn't believe Russian hackers would try to get one presidential candidate elected over another.

Hayden said the Russians "aren't that stupid."

"It's one thing to play with our heads, even to put doubt with regard to our political processes, but even they, I think, are smart enough to realize they can't predict the outcomes of certain things they might choose to do in terms of how the American people respond to them and who they ultimately vote for," he said.

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Rep. Stewart: 'Just common sense' to expect Russian hacking of US elections After issuing a warning earlier this month about the possibility that Russian computer hackers could disrupt the U.S. presidential election, Rep. Chris Stewart, R-Utah, said it's no surprise an attempt appears to have been made.

Hayden has been critical of Trump, calling him erratic and a candidate he can't vote for. He also said he won't vote for Clinton.

Trump, he said, routinely says things that support the narrative of those who oppose the U.S.

"For example, when he says this is all rigged, he's reinforcing what appears to be one of the themes of the Russian covert influence campaign," Hayden said.

"When he says they hate us, they all hate us, Islam hates us, he's playing into the theme of ISIS that there is undying enmity between Islam and the West. I think both of them are wrong, but he's playing from the same sheet of music."

Hayden said he doesn't know where the U.S. relationship with Russia goes with either Trump or Clinton in the White House.

"You're asking me an impossible question to predict Mr. Trump's foreign policy," he said. "It's all points of light — no it's not. It's free association. I don’t get a coherence."

But Hayden said the only underlying consistent theme he sees from Trump is what he calls "autocrat envy."

"I'm less concerned about what Mr. Trump's policies toward the Russian Federation might be than I am about this somewhat apparent instinct that he likes strong men able to impose their will," he said, citing Trump's praise of Putin and North Korean leader Kim Jong Un.

Clinton's approach would be cautious after her botched attempt to reset relations with Russia in 2009 as secretary of state, he said.

"I think Secretary Clinton might be once burned twice shy," Hayden said.

Hatch, the longest-ever serving member of the Senate Intelligence Committee, worked with Hayden on every major intelligence issue since 9/11. Hatch said the general has a wealth of experience and expertise in the field.

Hayden, he said, transformed the national security community and updated the nation's intelligence strategy. "Time and again, he has proven himself to be a consummate leader and a stalwart defender of freedom," Hatch said.

At the conference, Hayden talked about the need for better integration between federal and state and local leaders that arose as a result of 9/11. He gave Utah officials a broader picture of where the country stands in fighting terrorism and what it means for them.

Regarding the reported death of ISIL senior leader Abu Mohammed al-Adnani, Hayden said he has no reason to question the report.

Al-Adani was the organization's spokesman and chief strategist for its attacks against the West. Hayden said he doesn't think his death would change the extremist's group's terroristic activities.

"Think of it as erosion, not an earthquake. Significant erosion," he said.

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