Thilo Sarrazin is a Social Democrat and former board member of the Bundesbank who caused a firestorm in Germany back in 2010 with his book Deutschland schafft sich ab, “Germany abolishes itself”. In his book Mr. Sarrazin gathered statistical data about Muslim immigration into Germany and demonstrated the irreparable harm it was doing to the country, not least by genetically lowering the IQ of the population. He and his book were repudiated by the (leftist) establishment, and he was cast into the Outer Darkness to keep company with racists, xenophobes, Nazis, etc.

The following video is the first of four parts from a recent appearance by Thilo Sarrazin on a television discussion program called “Talk in Hangar 7”. Mr. Sarrazin has a new book out, and was there to discuss it. An Austrian teacher named Susanne Wiesinger, who has also written a book, was a fellow guest on the panel. As counterpoint, an imam named Abdul Adhim Kamouss was there to present his own point of view.

Many thanks to MissPiggy for the translation, and to Vlad Tepes for the subtitling:

Video transcript:

00:00 Talk in Hangar 7

00:10 Good evening and welcome to Talk in Hangar 7. Today with a small group that includes two authors,

00:16 each has written books about the influence of conservative Islam which have made the bestseller list.

00:21 Both of these authors, although they come to different conclusions, have each earned very much praise and criticism.

00:28 Welcome Susanne Wiesinger. You are a teacher in Vienna-Favoriten and the author of the book

00:33 “Culture Clash in the Class Room”. Good evening. I also welcome Thilo Sarrazin. You were, for many years,

00:39 SPD Finance Senator in Berlin and a Board Member of the German Federal Bank. And the last few years a quite controversial

00:43 bestselling author. Just a few weeks ago your most recent book was released, entitled “Hostile Takeover”, in which you describe

00:49 a very gloomy picture of the European future as a result of Islamization.

00:55 I also welcome Abdul Adhim Kamouss. You were considered to be a Salafist preacher for many years and

01:01 were under investigation by interior intelligence authorities and had contact with ISIS fighters, but now you are fighting for

01:07 a liberal Islam. You have also written a book entitled “To Whom does Islam belong?” Mr. Sarrazin, if you will, you became

01:17 a public intellectual figure in 2010 with your book, “Germany Eradicates itself”. It was also characterized by a rather

01:26 dystopian forecast. Would you say now, eight years later, that Germany has come closer to eradicating itself?

01:34 Yes, …it is happening far worse than I described it at the time. I never said that would happen the next day, but that it would be a

01:46 process. I also described the causes, and when I compare that with what has actually happened in the last eight years, I have to say

01:58 all the trends that I described in my book have materialized, except they are occurring significantly more disadvantageously

02:04 than I described. —You describe this development in the introduction of your newest book. There you also describe exactly the future

02:10 development and in comparison with your last book, concentrate on the role that Islam plays in this development.

02:17 Where do you see the connections in these scenarios? What do you fear the most? —Yes, now I have to try to summarize

02:30 500 pages for you in a few sentences. I will do my best. Ultimately, it is clear that Muslims, due to the influence of Islam, as a whole

02:42 do not integrate very well and for the most part, do not accept our liberal values. Simultaneously, because of, in particular,

02:51 the role of women for them. These women have significantly more children compared to others and as a result their numbers

03:06 and proportion increase. At the same time, we can see by all indicators of integration, criminality, education, labor market

03:17 participation, radical attitudes show a poor performance by Muslims when compared to other migration groups.

03:27 They stand, as a whole, at a considerable distance from our society, which is growing. In order to see in which direction this develops

03:37 in the future, we need only to look at the development in the Islamic world in general. Unfortunately, one will find that in the entirety

03:43 of Islamic history and in the entire Islamic present, there is not one single country where the Muslims have the majority that other

03:52 groups can live in freedom and are valued as equals. This leads me to say, until I have proof of the contrary, Islam is incompatible

04:06 with political and religious freedom. This is very dangerous, if we consider that Muslims will be the majority within the next two

04:15 to three generations. It is a process that will take several years. —That was a quick run through your book. —Yes. —Mrs. Wiesinger, you

04:23 describe in your book, “Culture Clash in the Classroom” the problems in schools in socially disadvantaged areas in

04:30 Vienna. You teach at one of these schools. You deal with the youngest generation, on average the third generation immigrants.

04:40 Do you see the developments in your surroundings, the same as Mr. Sarrazin describes, but in a wider context? —I see the

04:48 developments as thoroughly alarming, otherwise I would have never written this book. —But are you equally pessimistic?

04:57 —No. I was just about to add that. I’m by no means pessimistic, otherwise I wouldn’t have gone public. I believe it is possible

05:10 to turn things around as a society as a whole and within the Muslim community. However, the conversation needs to start.

05:22 We shouldn’t split up into camps, especially for the society at large. Mr. Sarrazin, right from the beginning, I had the impression

05:33 from your books and through your interviews that your tendency is to be divisive rather than to bring people together.

05:43 And that’s not what I wanted to do with my book. I wanted to draw attention to the problems, to name them and not sweep

05:53 them under the rug. Exercise criticism of the governments, even the social democrats —that we share in common. However,

06:02 my desire was not to be divisive, exactly the opposite. —Do you want to divide? —No, I consider it, if I may, an obscure term —the

06:14 truth is never divisive. And those who say they do not want to cause division, do not want to see the truth in its entirety. At no

06:23 place in my entire book do I cause division and the tone is restrained. I give the facts, I analyze them and make prognoses

06:31 and evaluate. There is nothing divisive, but it is certainly not very optimistic. I understand that you, being a teacher, think

06:40 differently. My wife is also a teacher. Teachers have another function. I must analyze a sociology, I must analyze a religion,

06:49 I need to make prognoses. You must see children individually and see what you are able to make out of them. That is a

06:59 totally different aspect which I absolutely respect and support. And in that respect, you must have a certain optimism for

07:06 individual cases and their development. —Sure, sure. —That is your function as teacher. —An optimism for the individual

07:12 that can become a greater all-encompassing order. —I think Mr. Sarrazin, if one writes a book that becomes a bestseller

07:21 like yours and is exposed to the public, as you have been and for me partially as well, then we have an obligation.

07:30 —I have exercised my —To offer solutions. —I did that. —And to bring people together and not to push them further apart. —I have

07:40 the obligation to explain the situation as it is. If you are a doctor and you have an unfortunate diagnosis for a patient,

07:48 the first thing you need to explain is the diagnosis. The solutions the doctor offers must be within the realm of factual possibilities.

07:56 —I agree and that’s what I want with my book. —In my book I offer ways in which things can be done, absolutely, in the last chapter,

08:05 very definite and very clear. I believe this is the way things should go, but what the result will be, they will come about. On the whole

08:15 I am not very optimistic. Just like a doctor administers with all his ability, but at the same time must say, “Well, your chances

08:23 are bad, but I will do what I can.” And I am operating in this sense. —Let us for a moment stay with this breakdown in which you both

08:33 agree. The problem must diagnosed, and the doctor shouldn’t sugarcoat the seriousness of the diagnoses. —I didn’t want that

08:39 either. No sugar coat. —One has to figure out what can be done. And we should try to stay in this order during our conversation,

08:46 with the diagnoses, because there, you both aren’t too far apart. At least that is my impression and very interesting.

08:52 One could make the connection from what Mr. Sarrazin wrote to the train of thought from Michel Houellebecq’s novel “Submission”,

08:58 which a term that you also used in your book. —Yes, yes. —Let’s stay there for a moment. What do you mean with submission?

09:05 —I meant submission related to the school, that we must adapt to the needs and the lifestyle of these children. This is true,

09:22 it is a fact. —And you shouldn’t? —We shouldn’t, we are making a huge mistake. We adapt to them out of a fake tolerance,

09:34 sometimes out of convenience and out of fear. —Fear of what? On the one hand fear of loss of respect in the classroom and partially

09:51 due to fear of our superiors accusing us of racism. —They just don’t see what is happening. When does this submission happen

10:04 specifically? —Specifically in certain educational content, in biology, in music, drawing, and sport above all — it is just left out.

10:18 Further, it happens especially with younger female teachers, they must pay attention to what they wear. They no longer dress

10:28 as young women in the West do. —That is catastrophic. —That IS catastrophic, and that is what I wanted to point out.

10:36 This is going in the wrong direction. That’s absolutely clear. I agree with you fully Mr. Sarrazin,

10:42 something must be done against it. —You see, that is even harder than what I wrote because I go by statistic

10:53 affirming observable facts. And as far as what you report, from real life experiences —it is far more frightening. —It is!

10:59 —The headscarf mentality is already being transferred to female Austrian teachers. The most frightening is, for me as a teacher,

11:07 is how these children, these Muslim children suffer. This would address you, in my opinion, these children suffer terribly. They are

11:21 so torn between their world—their family, the mosque, their faith —and our Western world. They actually want to live as we do, they

11:33 want to be a part of it, of our lives and to develop. —Do you not want them to? —Well, there were several topics discussed here

11:45 and I have my own perspective, I’ll start with… —May I just ask you a question? We just establish some observations. Would you

11:58 agree with these observations? Would you say, I see this as well? —The observations from Mr. Sarrazin I do not accept.

12:08 Nor can I understand them. —Have you read my book? —Mr. Sarrazin speaks about Muslims that I don’t know.

12:17 —But you know my statistics? —I was listening the entire time and would now like to give my opinion. —Please do.

12:27 —He speaks about a group, I have no idea what he is seeing. He see everything black, everything dark.

12:35 He has his own tailored version of Islam and has imagined some Islamic group in his world. I see the Muslims in Germany,

12:45 in Austria, but mainly in Germany —I see them differently. I see in front of my eyes thousands upon thousands

12:54 of academic scholars, teachers, IT specialists, engineers, chemists, physicists, structural engineers

13:09 and the list goes on. I see in my eyes, excuse me, I am trying to show the actual picture. I see in my eyes thousands upon

13:21 thousands of loyal employees who are taxpayers in Germany. Produce traders that provide us with food. I see hairdressers

13:38 that make us look good. I see in my eyes people from different places. I see bus drivers and many more in a variety of areas.

13:53 —Not too long please. —I am reciting this list on purpose so that you can see the distribution exactly. In Germany Muslims are

14:03 present everywhere, in all sectors. Not like Mr. Sarrazin depicts it, he depicts us as a burden, we are welfare recipients, we are

14:16 a threat, we are, we are. Then he tries to sell that in a time where the mood is gladly receptive. That’s why I see his version,

14:29 that he has tailor made is only a part of his delusional world. —Could it be that your version is only from your world? —Well,

14:40 I see what I experience in Germany. I myself am an academic person and go to universities. I see everywhere, in all disciplines

14:51 there are Muslims who are active and work in research, in industry. That’s what I see. Why must we focus our view just

15:03 on this group that Mr. Sarrazin sees on the Sonnenallee (Berlin Clans)? Or on Karl Marx Street? That’s not Germany.

15:09 —Maybe because it is also a part of Germany? —It is a part, and I don’t deny it. I disown the fact that focus is only placed