Google, eBay, even the web itself: In the beginning all of these things appeared as point products, interesting in their way, but small. Of course, they weren’t. “There is this swallow-the-red-pill moment that happens,” Marc Andreessen says, “Where you realize something really, really big is going to happen.”

In this segment of the pod, Andreessen joins Optimizely CEO Dan Siroker during the company’s annual conference Opticon for a conversation about what’s most exciting in tech today: the spread of optimization tools, privacy trends, artificial intelligence, virtual reality, bitcoin, robotics, and more. All that, and why Donald Trump’s hair could use some A/B testing.