The Gujarat campaign might have run close, but

chief

looked relaxed and ready to answer questions on why the party won less seats than expected and how he saw political issues shaping up. He said development remains central to the Modi government’s narrative but added that he felt it might not be possible to put off the

issue, which is before the

, for much longer. Excerpts of a conversation with

Diwakar

and

Rajeev Deshpande

:

Q: You won both Gujarat and Himachal Pradesh elections, but the numbers declined in Gujarat and the opposition says this is a defeat for BJP. It is being said that Amit Shah spoke of 150 seats.

A:

Q: Usually an 8% difference in votes should translate into more seats, why did this not happen?

A:

Q: So how will you describe the message of the elections?

A:

Q: PM’s appeal has undoubtedly been the key to BJP’s success. Gujarat shows that he remains your chief asset. But there is a risk of over exposure and the law of diminishing returns setting in.

A:

Q: So the Modi government’s policies and programmes will remain your plank (despite less numbers in Gujarat)?

A:

Q: But Rahul Gandhi has cited

to say that the Gujarat model stands exposed...

A:

Q: Growth in Gujarat has been criticised for not being inclusive.

A:

Q: The apparent anger among Gujarat farmers points to a failure to address their demands.

A:

Q: Farm issues are already being raised in Karnataka and Madhya Pradesh which go to polls shortly.

A:

Q: The gains in seats for Congress have largely come from Saurashtra. Have you considered why?

A:

Q: So you feel that the factors which dragged your tally down will not last?

A:

Q: You say that BJP’s vote share went up, but BJP’s seats have progressively come down since 2002.

A:

Q: You tried to divert attention from development to issues such as Mani Shankar Aiyar’s comments and

’s court appearance in the Ayodhya case...

A:

Q: You sought to polarise the elections by bringing up Ayodhya?

A:

Q: What about the urban-rural divide in the support for BJP.

A:

Q: A leader of your allied party Naresh Gujral said the Gujarat results show that the TINA factor is over.

A:

Q: During the campaign it was felt that

is a major factor, but you seem to have been unscathed in cities like Surat where there were agitations.

A:

Q: GST has implications for the economy...

A:

Q: Does the Patidar agitation still have the capacity to harm you?

A:

Q: Congress allied with three castebased leaders. Will this trend continue to be a feature in Gujarat politics?

A:

Q: The coming round of assembly elections, with Meghalaya, Nagaland, Tripura and Karnataka in the fray, have some uncharted territory...

A:

Q: In Karnataka issues of identity are being raised, such as a state flag.

A:

Q: But similarly you will face incumbency in MP, Chhattisgarh and Rajasthan which go to polls towards the end of the year.

A:

Q: Jobs and jobless growth has become an issue and it is felt that the youth that supported you are becoming impatient.

A:

Q: People have by and large backed you on issues like demonetisation and GST. Do you think it is time to provide some rewards or relief to people?

A:

Q: It is being said that since the limits of the Gujarat model have been reached, you will take recourse to Hindutva issues like Ram Mandir.

A:

Q: Will you make an effort to resolve the Ramjanmabhoomi dispute?

A:

See, if someone sees victory in electoral defeat, particularly the opposition, then I do not have any problem. The numbers say we formed governments in both states, full majority in Gujarat and 2/3rd majority in Himachal . Those who see victory in their defeat need to answer when last did they get 49% vote in a state election? That is what BJP got in Gujarat and is a record of sorts. I did set a goal of 150 seats and felt this is doable. But the manner in which casteist stirs and demands were instigated and Congress’s attempt to convert this into votes was a factor. The low level of electioneering by Congress as well as wrong or fake propaganda — fake WhatsApps, false screen shots, falsifying speeches — these low tactics had an effect. I have seen elections since 1985 and I have never seen such dirty tricks.Well some seats were lost won or lost narrowly. And I repeat that the sort of disinformation spread in the last one month had an effect.It is a victory of politics of development and appeal of the PM over politics of casteism, dynasty and appeasement. This has cleared the path to a clear victory in 2019 because people continue to trust Prime Minister and have not supported unprincipled politics.The over exposure theory works where the appeal is not based on solid work. Modi ji has not emerged on basis of dynasty or birth.Yes, absolutely. We’ve won polls because of this not only in Gujarat but elsewhere too. We defeated Congress in Maharashtra, Haryana, Jharkhand, J&K, Himachal, Assam, Manipur, Uttarakhand, UP (we beat SP plus Congress) and we returned to office in Goa.Tell me one state or even a country that has seen a 10% growth rate for 10 years. Apart from BJP ruled states tell me one other where villages get 24-hour electricity. Or, where there is 99% enrolment in primary education and a dropout ratio of less than 3%. Show me one state where ground water levels have increased 22 feet. The area under cultivation has increased 3.6 times. There are three crops where there was one. From 2007 to 2017 there has hardly been curfew. School buildings have increased. The emergency services 108 reach their destinations in an average of nine minutes. The place where Rahul Gandhi stood to pose questions...at the river front in Ahmedabad was a nullah ( before Modi took over as CM). It was used for political rallies. Today it is full of water and Modi ji landed there in a sea plane! Rahul Gandhi said 13,000 schools have been shut down. So our spokesperson asked for the list. Where is it? It is your responsibility too to ask him for the list of schools which have allegedly been shut down.In the last 10 years, Gujarat has led in the area of job creation and that should answer your question.Farmers are facing difficulties in many states including those where Congress is in office. In Gujarat, schemes have ensured water reaches fields and productivity has gone up. This led to a situation where prices dipped just before the voting and we could not intervene because of the Model Code of Conduct. We will study this and find a way.Madhya Pradesh and even Chhattisgarh have done well in agriculture. Even so, the experience of Gujarat will come in handy.I have told you that when bhranti (misinformation) was spread. We made an effort to clarify but we are not God and where our clarifications percolated to the ground level, we were able to contain the damage. Such disinformation does affect elections, I admit it.No question of it lasting. If it were to last, we would have lost this election.You have to look at it in the context of the concerted effort that goes into in seeking to defeat us. This is sure to have an impact. But vote percentage also speaks for itself. Can we hope for more than 49.1%,? It is a complete mandate in favour of BJP...I really don’t know where they (opposition) get the confidence to say these things. After 2014 they on their own have not won any election except Punjab.Do you want to say that Aiyar made the “neech” remark against the PM to help us? Who made the statement? We had to respond. Who asked for the construction of Ayodhya temple to be put off until after the 2019 polls? We didn’t. It was the Congress leadership.I have already responded. Till Kapil Sibal sought dates beyond the 2019 Lok Sabha election, Ayodhya had not been mentioned in the campaign. So who polarised the election? We did not. Congress should be asked whose votes was it seeking to consolidate.Why don’t you examine the rural vote closely? There has not been much of a drop. I am saying again and again that the type of disinformation (along caste lines) that was fanned had an impact.I will ask him when I meet him. I don’t see an alternative. If people talk of alternatives after losing a state where they were in office... all four senior Congress leaders lost in Gujarat.Surat is not just a trading hub, it has a big Patidar community. BJP has done very well there. GST is the world’s biggest sales tax reform. Many countries have GST but our effort has no precedent. About 15 other taxes have been merged. Such a big reform will have teething problems. The government compiled a list of problems and started making changes in rules. The necessary changes in the GST act will also be brought in the budget session (due in Februrary, 2019). We are showing all sensitivity and are devising solutions. This process may take another 6-8 months and GST will be a popularly accepted law.The fundamentals of the economy are strong. The dip in growth rate in the first quarter of the financial year was an aberration which was due to de-stocking ahead of GST launch. The trend has already been reversed and with the tax settling down the economy will improve further. In UP there is a big class of traders, as also in Maharashtra. And Gujarat too. We won municipalities in all these states.A large section of Patidars held a dialogue with us and we have worked to resolve their demands in a proactive way. There was a formula and this was in public.After what we saw, no one will repeat this experiment. No one will use borrowed players.Not really. We had a government in Karnataka. In the north-east I have been visiting Tripura. Now we have booth committees in more than 80% of the constituencies. We are on the streets, we will do well.I have been visiting Karnataka. I can say there is strong anti-incumbency and we are going to win.In MP and Chhattisgarh we have won repeatedly and the current CMs have delivered. In Rajasthan, Vasundhara ji has worked hard. BJP retains a solid edge in these states.Are you talking of jobs or employment? We have done a lot for employment. Jobs cannot be the only option for a nation our size. We have done a lot to generate employment through Start Up and Stand Up schemes and Mudra yojana. You can meet the beneficiaries of these schemes if you move around. We have created alternatives to generate more employment.Don’t go by perceptions. We have provided benefits to people. Three crore women have been freed of smoky kitchens through Ujjwala. Nine crore kids (youth) have got loans from Rs 10,000 to Rs 10 lakh without guarantors. Loans with low interest. Toilets have been built in the homes of more than 4 crore poor. It has made such a difference to the self confidence of women. Power has reached 19,000 villages. Will this not improve standard of living? It could have cost a person his life savings to get a stent. It can all be done in less that Rs 1.5 lakh. Medicines have been made cheaper. It is easy to sit in the Lutyen’s zone and criticise. It is more difficult to deliver at the grassroots and we have done it. Modi ji’s popualrity is not hollow, it reaches out to all and everyone.Please understand we have not hidden anything from the people. After the demolition of the disputed structure, every manifesto mentions the Ram temple. There is no contradiction between reaching cooking gas to the poor and the Ram temple. Both can happen..The case is in court. The highest court is hearing it. Saying anything on this will not be right. But I feel that gimmicks (hathkande) to put it off will not work.