Symantec president and chief executive officer Michael Brown. Credit:Ben Grubb Regardless, evidence does point to evil doers using encryption — and law-enforcement doesn't know what to do but push for technology companies to either ban encryption altogether or ask for so-called "back doors" that let them access encrypted data. Speaking to technology journalists in Sydney on Monday, Symantec president and chief executive officer Michael Brown said the recent push by the US and British governments to force technology giants such as Apple and Google to implement back doors in their products — forcing them to essentially hand over to law-enforcement the keys to their customers' encrypted data — needed to occur "in the light of day" and not in secrecy. "We as a society — as an open society — have to make trade offs and, you know, we are going to follow whatever we agree on with our laws as to what trade offs we're willing to make as individuals because we want society to be better protected," Mr Brown said, adding that his company "clearly" did not support back doors in principle, but that they may be needed soon in order to help fight terrorism and crime. "We're believers in encryption," the chief executive said. "Encryption is part of what we offer and encryption and privacy go together.

NSW counter-terrorism Commander Mark Murdoch lamented the challenge of encryption in law-enforcement. Credit:Jon Reid "[Back doors are] an unsettled question and I think we need to be acknowledging that in the open. "And I'll be critical of our own government with what's happened to the NSA; and that's why [NSA whistleblower Edward] Snowden did what he did." He added that the bigger issue was people being aware that they were giving up their privacy for "serving a greater good". "If we know that we are giving the keys to encryption to law enforcement because we want to serve a different purpose then that is all in the light of day. That's all I'm saying: It should be in the light of day."

Mr Brown's comments come as Apple chief executive Tim Cook warned last week that: "Any back door is a back door for everyone. Everybody wants to crack down on terrorists. Everybody wants to be secure. The question is how. Opening a back door can have very dire consequences." At a separate news conference on Monday afternoon, NSW counter-terrorism Commander Mark Murdoch lamented the challenge of encryption in law-enforcement. "In terms of going dark and the encrypted communications that are becoming more prevalent not only overseas but here, it is a challenge but it's certainly one that we are working to circumvent," he said. "It hasn't, as yet, here in Australia at least, caused us any drastic problem but it's certainly something I think we can readily deal with," Mr Murdoch said. "What it has done also is re-invigorate for us the need for old-fashioned detective work in many respects. It's not something that we are afraid of. It's not something we haven't seen here. It's something that we are confident we can work around." Asked if encryption was preventing NSW Police fighting crime and stopping terrorism activities, he said everything was "so far, so good".

But the NSW Crime Commission's latest annual report states that uncrackable phones have in fact hindered at least two murder investigations in Sydney. The commission reported a "steady increase in the use of encrypted communication methods, such as Phantom Secure BlackBerry devices and free downloadable applications for smartphones, over the last two years". In an interview with Fairfax Media earlier this year, Detective Superintendent Arthur Katsogiannis, Commander of the NSW Fraud and Cyber Crime Squad, also said encryption was causing issues. The problem has become such an issue NSW Police recently travelled to BlackBerry's headquarters in Canada in a bid to get advice on how to retrieve information from the encrypted devices, Fairfax Media reported in May. "We were investigating the outlawed motorcycle gangs ... [and] they were using encrypted Blackberries," Detective Katsogiannis said. "And it was very difficult for us to monitor their communications," Detective Katsogiannis said.

He added that he would like to see more collaboration from private companies, such as Apple and Google, when it comes to assisting law-enforcement agencies in decrypting phones to uncover critical evidence. "I don't think we can compel them to [help us], but I'd certainly like to see more consultation and liaising between the private sector and law enforcement, in particular when they're building products, because [at present] we don't get any input into it and once a product is built, created and put out onto the open market we play catch up ..." he said. If better collaboration doesn't eventuate, he said NSW Police may have to go down the path of asking the NSW government to change the laws to compel suspected criminals to reveal passwords by making it an offence not to do so. "We don't [currently do this]," Detective Katsogiannis said." [But] it's something we can look at. "I'd like to see something similar like the UK where you've got an office that includes investigators, lawyers, forensic accountants and analysts, and coercive powers where we can bring individuals in and if they're not going to talk to us it's an offence." A spokesman for Attorney-General George Brandis said the Australian government supported the use of encryption to protect communications.

"However, serious criminals and terrorist organisations often abuse encrypted communications in an attempt to avoid being caught," the spokesman said. "The government has strengthened Australia's national security laws and provided agencies with the enhanced powers they need to deal with this challenge." Although the recently passed laws don't address the challenge directly, they do involve ISPs collecting so-called communications metadata, but not of over the top apps like WhatsApp, Wickr, Silent, and Telegram, which provide encryption.