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“The only way to not be afraid of someone’s suffering is if you’re not afraid of your own.”

— Marcela Ot’alora G.

Marcela Ot’alora G. is a psychotherapist and an installation artist. Her interest and focus on trauma has led her to understand the healing process as an intimate reconnection with one’s essence through love, integrity, acceptance, and honoring of the human spirit. In addition to working with trauma and PTSD, she has dedicated her professional life to teaching and research. She uses art as a vehicle for deepening the relationship to self, others, and the natural world.

Marcela worked as a co-therapist in MAPS’ very first government regulated MDMA-assisted psychotherapy study in Madrid, Spain. She served as the principal investigator for MAPS’ phase two MDMA-assisted psychotherapy study, and is currently in the MDMA healthy volunteer study and phase three in Boulder, Colorado.

She is also a trainer and supervisor for therapists working on MAPS studies for MDMA-assisted psychotherapy.

You can find additional resources from this episode in the show notes below. They are also separately curated on this page: tim.blog/therapyresources.

Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Overcast, Stitcher, Castbox, Google Podcasts, or on your favorite podcast platform.

You can find the transcript of this episode here. Transcripts of all episodes can be found here.

#396: Marcela Ot’alora — The Art and Science of Psychedelic Therapy and Healing https://rss.art19.com/episodes/354d9d1f-92b9-469c-8c1d-86191c8b8e6b.mp3 Download

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Want to hear another episode about the future of psychedelic science? — Listen to this panel I moderated in front of a standing-room-only crowd at the Milken Institute’s Global Conference 2019. It includes a great overview of psychedelic science, investing opportunities, anecdotal personal benefits, legal challenges, and much more. (Stream below or right-click here to download.)

#377: Psychedelics — Microdosing, Mind-Enhancing Methods, and More https://rss.art19.com/episodes/7fd077cc-c8f5-4dfc-b87a-46933d9769bd.mp3 Download

QUESTION(S) OF THE DAY: What was your favorite quote or lesson from this episode? Please let me know in the comments.

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SELECTED LINKS FROM THE EPISODE

Connect with Marcela Ot’alora G.:

Website

SHOW NOTES

Marcela shares her childhood dreams of growing up to be a fire truck while playing cards with the inmates at the mental health hospital where her mother worked — the place she felt safest in violence-torn Medellín, Colombia. [09:03]

After arriving in the United States, how did Marcela’s interest in psychedelic therapy begin? [12:50]

What happened in the days and weeks following her first breakthrough MDMA experience with MAPS founder Rick Doblin? What made her own experiences so powerful, and how, specifically, did she believe MDMA could be of help to others? [18:26]

Influences outside of Rick and MAPS that have shaped Marcela’s approach to becoming the therapist she is today. [23:01]

Interested in becoming a psychedelic therapist? Here’s some advice from Marcela (and a link to a page of resources to guide you). [27:02]

What is the WAIT acronym, and why should therapists always keep it in mind? [32:23]

We touch on Hakomi therapy and other modalities that translate well into MDMA psychotherapy, and Marcela explains how communicating with parts of ourselves in non-ordinary states can differ depending on how they’re approached. [33:49]

What is the MT-1 study, and how does it help aspiring psychedelic therapists train for what they can expect in sessions ahead by using MDMA and alternative methods of reaching non-ordinary states such as holotropic breathwork and yoga? [36:29]

What are the qualification checkboxes needed if one wants to become a psychedelic therapist within the structure of current legal restrictions, and how does Marcela feel about where the FDA is leaning in negotiations over licensing? [39:41]

Before committing to years of academic work (and funding) to secure a PhD in psychology, how might someone get a basic feel for what psychedelic therapy work entails? [45:30]

A realistic look at just how difficult and un-sexy psychedelic therapy work can be. [49:38]

The therapist can’t rely on the medicine to carry the session. He or she needs to be prepared if things don’t go according to plan in order to make sure the situation doesn’t actually worsen the condition being treated. [53:49]

What other worries does Marcela have looking forward as things continue to become more popular and more people hope to become involved in psychedelic therapy to some capacity? What questions still need to be answered? [58:14]

What is the role of the therapist when a subject is so inner-directed that they’re silent throughout the entire session? [1:00:23]

As a therapist, what does Marcela remember as her hardest sessions, and what made them so difficult? [1:03:02]

What does preparation look like for a session directed under MAPS protocol? What are the rules that must be followed once a session has begun, and how might a therapist deal with someone in a non-ordinary state who no longer wants to comply with these rules? [1:04:46]

How is psychedelic therapy like alchemy — especially when trying to help someone work with their own overwhelming feelings of self-judgment? [1:09:16]

In Marcela’s experience, what separates a good psychedelic therapist from a great psychedelic therapist? [1:11:02]

In order to ensure the subject’s treatment isn’t somehow contaminated by external factors, where does the psychedelic therapist draw the line between self-disclosure and professional distance? [1:14:56]

What are the rules of engagement when Marcela and her co-therapist (who also happens to be her husband) have a disagreement during a session? What might cause such a disagreement, and how has it affected the outcome when it has happened? [1:17:01]

How many preparatory sessions lead up to an eight-hour MDMA session, what is their duration, and how many/how long are the post sessions that exit the experience? [1:19:22]

Just to alleviate the misconception some might have about MDMA being a quick and painless fix for what ails you: trauma hurts whether it’s coming or going. Expect hard work and no small amount of suffering. [1:20:47]

Where can people learn more about the options that are available for exploring this work and understanding what’s involved? (Find the big list here.) [1:24:14]

“Science is an organized kind of wonder.” Marcela’s work is informed as much by poetry, art, and imagery as it is by science. Here’s a short list of reading we both recommend (the much longer list can be found here). [1:30:08]

Parting thoughts. [1:36:58]

Psychedelic-Assisted Therapy (Resources)

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