Vikram Zutshi: There are some who claim the 'Aryan Invasion Theory' (AIT) is mere speculation and that in fact migration happened out of India and not vice versa because there is no evidence to prove it. Prof Nicholas Kazanas and Shrikant Talageri are two such voices. How would you respond to them? Has the classical AIT been modified in light of recent findings?

Dr Parpola: Sanskrit and other Indo-Aryan languages belong to the Indo-European language family. The proto-language, from which all branches of this linguistic family descend, can to a large extent be reconstructed by comparing the similarities and differences between the different Indo-European languages. We know from the reconstructed vocabulary of this proto-language that its speakers had ox-drawn wagons and carts, wheeled vehicles that are world-wide first attested about 3600 BCE in the Tripolye culture of present-day Ukraine and Moldavia in south-eastern Europe.

Due to climatic change, this most advanced Copper Age culture dispersed about 3400 BCE in all directions: Tripolye-related people moved with their wheeled vehicles into areas where Indo-European languages later appeared, most of them in Europe. Speakers of the Indo-Aryan languages can be traced back to Tripolye origins through a chain of genetically related archaeological cultures of the Eurasian steppes. The reconstruction is confirmed by Proto-Indo-Aryan words borrowed into the last phase of the Uralic protolanguage spoken around 2300-2000 BCE in the northeast of European Russia. Proto-Uralic *kekra 'circular thing, cycle' attests to the transition from Proto-Indo-European *kwekwlos 'wheel, cycle' into Sanskrit cakra 'wheel, cycle'. These archaeological and linguistic reconstructions are widely approved by archaeologists and linguists in many countries. There is no such internationally acknowledged archaeological and linguistic evidence for the hypothesis that India was the original Indo-European homeland and that the Indo-European languages spoken in Europe have come from India. I trust that eventually truth will prevail, as per the Sanskrit adage adopted by the state of India as its logo: satyam eva jayate.

Jeffery D Long: Is it possible that the eventual transcription and reading of the Indus Valley script might complicate this picture? Might there have been trade between the Indus Valley and the Eurasian steppe region? Indus sites have been found as far north as Shortugai, on the Afghan-Tajikistan border, and Indus seals in the Bactria-Margiana Archaeological Complex, in what is now Turkmenistan. Might there have been influence in both directions? I am thinking of the Gundestrup Cauldron, certainly a European (Celtic) artefact, but bearing a striking resemblance to the “Proto-Shiva” of some Indus Valley seals.

Dr Parpola: Motifs of painted pottery and stamp seals testify to connections between the Greater Indus Valley, the Iranian Plateau and southern Central Asia (Turkmenistan, Afghanistan) during the Early Harappan period (c. 5000-2600 BCE). During the Kot Diji phase (c. 2800-2600 BCE), the Early Harappans were in contact with the Proto-Elamite culture (c. 3200-2600 BCE) that extended all over the Iranian plateau; they may have been inspired to create the Indus script by seeing the Proto-Elamite script in use, although in any case they did not copy the actual script signs, but only adopted the idea of logo-syllabic writing. The famous "Proto-Siva" of the Mature Harappan seals appears to have an antecedent in the Proto-Elamite motif of "sitting bull". Trade and cultural contacts with southern Central Asia continued in the Mature Harappan period, but the recorded Indus imports at Altyn-depe and Gonur in Turkmenistan are limited to a few Indus seals and ivory sticks, while there is no evidence of direct Harappan influence upon the Eurasian steppes. The Early Harappan inland contacts with the Iranian plateau were largely replaced in the Mature Harappan period by sea trade with the Gulf and Mesopotamia. The Bactria and Margiana Archaeological Complex, however, greatly influenced the steppe world, but this seems to have happened mainly after the take-over of the BMAC by Proto-Indo-Aryan speakers coming from the steppes around the 21st century BCE. The Gundestrup cauldron is some 1,500 years later than the Indus Civilisation, and Denmark is far removed from the Indus Valley without any clear intermediating links. I consider its similarity with the Harappan "Proto-Siva" a pure coincidence, comparable to the resemblance between the Easter Island script and the Indus script, removed from each other by the greatest possible space and some 3,500 years.

Debashish Banerji: Adding to Jeffery’s question, you had once suggested a period of bilingualism and cultural exchange between the Indus Valley populations and the BMAC culture. Since cultural change does not necessarily depend on physical migrations, how compelling do you find the invasion theory and the migration theory? What kinds of populations were involved? Can one draw on genetic studies to discover significant temporal shifts in the gene pool?

Dr Parpola: While cultural change does not necessarily depend on physical migrations, introduction of bilingualism and language shift does. I do not think the Indo-Aryan language could have been introduced to Central and South Asia without the immigration of pastoralist people from the steppes speaking this language. In my book, I have concentrated on correlating linguistic and archaeological reconstructions of the past and ignored genetic evidence, because to my understanding dating genetic migrations has been very problematic.

Vikram Zutshi: Who were the Mittani people of Syria? What are their links to Vedic civilisation?

Dr Parpola: The kingdom of Mittani or Mitanni in present-day Syria was one of the three great powers of West Asia around 1500-1300 BCE. The other two were the Hittites of Anatolia (the Asiatic part of present-day Turkey) and the Egyptians. The people of Mittani/Mitanni spoke Hurrian, a language different from that of their rulers, who had Indo-Aryan names, and whose ancestors apparently had introduced horse-drawn war-chariots into West Asia. A Mitannian called Kikkuli wrote for the Hittites a handbook for training chariot-horses, and it contains technical terms of Indo-Aryan origin. The Proto-Indo-Aryan nobility that took over the power in Syria had come via northern Iran from the "Bactria and Margiana Archaeological Complex" (BMAC), a Bronze Age culture discovered in the 1970s in southern Turkmenistan and northern Afghanistan. The BMAC had gone through a similar take-over of power by Proto-Indo-Aryan speakers coming from the steppes of Kazakhstan and Russia, where the earliest horse-drawn chariots have been found (around 2100 BCE at Sintashta and Arkaim in the southern Urals). The earlier mentioned two waves of Indo-Aryan speakers to South Asia also came from the BMAC.

Vikram Zutshi: Tell us about the early Iranians and 'left handed' Tantrism.

Dr Parpola: While the Proto-Indo-Aryans left the "Aryan homeland" in the Pontic steppes north of the Black Sea around 2300 BCE by pushing further east to the Asiatic steppes, the Proto-Iranian speakers stayed in south-eastern Europe until they adopted horse-riding around 1500 BCE. Almost immediately the first East Iranians moved to southern Central Asia, where they succeeded the BMAC, taking over some BMAC traditions like fortified settlements. These East Iranian speakers are the Dasas, whose fortresses were stormed by the Rigvedic Aryans on their way to the Indus Valley.

The Dasas, whose ethnic name is derived from the East Iranian word dasa (later daha) meaning 'man, hero', also came to South Asia, adopting there the Indo-Aryan language, but bringing with them some of their gods - among them Sambara, Yama (Avestan Yima) and 'the master of Fire' Atar-isvan (whose name changed into Matarisvan in the Veda). The use of an enemy's skull as a drinking vessel, and the promiscuous orgies before a war-expedition may also be Dasa heritage in Sakta Tantrism.

Debashish Banerji: What do you see as the history of the similarities between the Vedic and Greek gods? Some of the Greek mythologies were related to initiatic mystery cults and oracles. Is there a possibility of similar practices related to the Vedic gods?

Dr Parpola: In my book, I am discussing at length the connection of the Asvins (and their assumed doubles Mitra and Varuṇa) with their counterparts in the Greek religion, the Dioskouroi (Kastor and Polydeukes); these seem to be originally Proto-Indo-Aryan deities that came into being when the horse-drawn chariot was invented around 2100 BCE in the southern Urals, and spread with the chariot also to the Balts. To Greece they came with the Dorians, apparently only after chariot-driving was largely replaced by horse-riding, which started taking place around 1500 BCE. The initiatic mystery cults of Greece go back to West Asian Goddess cults, connected with agricultural fertility rites of hoary age (at least 6000 BCE), while their Vedic counterparts also go back to West Asia, but via the Indus Civilisation.

Vikram Zutshi: What is the Dilmun, Magan and Meluhha?

Dr Parpola: Dilmun, Magan and Meluhha are the three foreign countries with which the Mesopotamians had relations of maritime trade, the most far-off country Meluhha denoting the Greater Indus Valley and the Harappan civilization. Among Meluhhan imports was ivory, which in the third millennium did not yet come to Mesopotamia from Africa. The Akkadian kings penetrated far into the Iranian plateau in their eastward war expeditions, but never reached Meluhha.

One Meluhhan king, however, participated in the world-wide rebellion of 17 kings against the Akkadian king Naram-Sin (ruled 2254-2218 BCE). Because the cuneiform tablet telling about this event is broken, we know only the last two syllables of his name. This tantalising piece of information is the only record we currently have of the political history of the Indus Civilisation.

Vikram Zutshi: Tell us about the Atharvaveda and the Vratyas.

Dr Parpola: The language and religion of the Atharvaveda differs clearly from that of the Rigveda, although by the time of its composition and recording, the Rigvedic poetry had already influenced the Atharvavedic tradition. The Atharvaveda contains both "white magic" and "black magic", spells to cure illnesses, to fulfil all sorts of wishes, and to crush enemies. The Atharvavedic tradition, the lore of the royal purohita, is connected with royal rituals and with archaic rites of warring bands of young men called vratya. These have an Indo-European background but contain elements inherited by the Atharvavedic tradition from the Indus Civilisation.

Debashish Banerji: The large number of sites on the banks of the dry Ghaggar-Hakra river, popularly called Saraswati, has led to many scholars displacing the centre of the Indus civilisation to the Saraswati and proposing the nomenclature Sindhu-Saraswati civilisation. What is your view on this?

Dr Parpola: In view of the large number of sites on the Saraswati river, one may of course propose to call the Mature Harappan culture Sindhu-Saraswati Civilization. This name has been proposed by Indian scholars, who understandably want to emphasise that this civilisation existed also in present-day India, not only in present-day Pakistan, the area of the Indus (Sindhu) river. Indian scholars have recently started claiming that the Indus Civilisation originated in India and then spread to Pakistan, and not vice versa, as has been usually thought so far. For the time being, I prefer the traditional view, referring particularly to Akinori Uesugi's paper "Development of the inter-regional interaction system in the Indus Valley and beyond: A hypothetical view towards the formation of an urban society" (2011).

Vikram Zutshi: Tell us about Megalithic culture and the Great Epics.

Dr Parpola: A new wave of Aryan horsemen came to South Asia from the west around 800 BCE, bringing with them the so-called Megalithic culture. They seem to have penetrated first to the Vidarbha region and, adopting the local Black-and-Red Ware as their pottery, spread to peninsular India and Sri Lanka during the following centuries. The Megalithic people may originally have spoken a West Iranian language, but they soon adopted Indo-Aryan and in South India local Dravidian languages. The Iranian-like polyandric marriage system of the Paṇḍavas (unknown to, and condemned by, the Kauravas), and the birth myth of Pāṇḍu implying that the Paṇḍavas were white-skinned people, are hints suggesting that the Paṇḍavas of the Mahabharata belonged to these Megalithic immigrants. Their appellation Paṇḍava is related to that of the early Paṇḍya kings of Tamil Nadu, and to Paṇḍu-Vasudeva among the early rulers of Sri Lanka.

Debashish Banerji: While the original hypothesis for the demise of the Indus Civilisation was the Aryan Invasion (later replaced by Aryan Migration) many scholars today think of this disappearance as caused by climatic reasons having to do with flooding or drying up of water sources. What is your view on this?

Dr Parpola: It seems likely that climatic changes were the main reason for the disappearance of the Indus Civilisation, but it is very probable that this "systems collapse" had multiple causes.

Vikram Zutshi: What do the numerous seals found in the Indus valley tell us about this fascinating culture?

Dr Parpola: For their inscriptions see my reply to your question three above. The iconographic motifs on the seals include superb creations of miniature art. Constituting one of the most important sources of Harappan religion, they witness the Indus origin of some fundamental constituents of South Asian folk religion, the worship of sacred trees, particularly fig trees, and of sacred animals.

Debashish Banerji: Some scholars have seen the roots of yoga and puja in some of the Indus Valley seals. Do you have any insights on this? On another issue, Mahadevan has posited that the objects in front of the “unicorn” in the unicorn seals is a Soma filter. How do you relate to this seal?