BJP chief

Amit Shah

is keeping late hours, working well into the night at the party's new headquarters in central Delhi. Outlining PM

Narendra Modi

's leadership and the government's record of corruption-free governance as key election issues, Shah told

Diwakar

and

Rajeev Deshpande

that voters will back BJP. He shrugged off a challenge from the SP-BSP alliance in UP, saying if alliances directly translated into public support, no alliance would ever lose. Excerpts:

What is your assessment of the odds at the end of BJP’s term in office as a majority government?

Can you elaborate on why this should be so? Five years ago, UPA’s record and Narendra Modi’s candidature made a difference. Now there is incumbency and fulfilling expectations is always difficult.

The opposition says there are no jobs and farm distress has risen and things have become worse.

On the issue of farm distress, there is a situation that production has been high, but prices are low. Should more attention have been paid to developing market avenues and other such measures?

Is ‘55 months against 55 years’ going to be your campaign theme?

You mentioned appeasement and here your opponents accuse you of divisive and polarising politics.

You spoke of national security. You have been accused of using national security like a shield to cover failures and politicising the sensitive issue.

The charge against you is that you tossed up the number of 250 dead in the strike on Balakot without basis.

You said BJP will improve its majority. But you are at saturation in many states. The law of nature is that you will decline...

You have allied with regional parties earlier in states like Andhra Pradesh/

Telangana

and Odisha. You do not seem to have sought such allies?

Among your allies, your partner in Maharashtra is always at odds and criticises BJP. Won’t lack of trust hurt in a such a key state?

Uttar Pradesh is certainly a big challenge for BJP. You are up against three major challengers.

So you are saying an alliance is not two plus two?

You feel the prime minister’s popularity has increased. But BJP lost three states and the winning margin in Gujarat shrunk.

But Congress accuses the government of corruption, as in the Rafale deal.

Your opponents say the economy has suffered due to disruptions like notebandi and it is stalling.

You undertook big reforms like

GST

but this resulted in disruption and unhappiness.

There are several states where BJP will be face to face with Congress. Last time, you won this contest. But now Congress is back in three of these states. Will this not change things?

There is speculation on the extent candidates will be changed...

You feel that there is a national issue, but the opposition’s strategy seems to be to make this contest one about states and alliances.

The opposition feels the PM’s appeal has waned and seems to be confident that its charges will dull it further.

In 2014, the BJP campaign had several firsts like social media, missed call campaign, ‘chai pe charcha’. What’s in store this time?

In the Madhya Pradesh elections, there was concern over the rights of Dalits (in view of SC ruling) but there was also resentment among the general categories.

How will you describe your policies towards the middle class?

There are reports of discontent in tribal populations in Chhattisgarh and Jharkhand. This might hurt your prospects.

It is now clear that the Ayodhya case will not be resolved soon. Will this not disappoint your supporters?

What about the negotiation process that has been ordered by the court?

This is my first interview after declaration of elections. For BJP, elections are a mega festival of democracy. It’s an opportunity to take our ideology and the work done by the government to the people. I want to say just one thing to the people of our country, that the elections will be fought on issues and agendas. And people should be careful and alert about those who distract their attention and spread confusion. BJP and the NDA coalition will, under the leadership of Narendra Modi, return with a bigger mandate than it now enjoys. It will be a majority government that will be strong and tackle the problems of the country.I will come to this later. To start, let me elaborate on the issues BJP will highlight in the election. First, only a stable government can do good for the nation and deliver development. By stable government, I mean one with a full majority. Then, only a strong leader can resolve the problems of the people. In Modiji, we have given India a ‘mazboot’ leader. India is poised to be among the top five economies of the world. Who can secure the country is a big issue. The election should be on this issue. Who can protect the country should be debated. Then there are 50 crore deprived, poor, Dalit and Adivasi people who were not touched in the last 70 years. There is need for a government that improves their standard of living. Lastly, there should be a government that brings glory and pride to the nation on the world stage. We will go to elections on these seven issues. Our leader Modiji has worked on these lines and has gained the trust of the people.The opposition should answer just how many families did not have a bank account before 2014. Today, there are 30 crore bank accounts. How many people had cooking gas? Now, 6 crore poor have connections and so do 7 crore others. Now, gas cylinders have reached 13 crore. Some 10 crore (households) did not have toilets. Now the task of providing toilets to 8 crore families is complete. Some 2.5 crore families have been allotted houses. There were some 2.3 crore people who did not have electricity. Today, almost all have power. There is a scheme for health insurance up to Rs 5 lakh a year; till now, in just four months, 15 lakh people have benefited. The opposition should address these facts instead of speaking in a roundabout manner. They should answer, those who ruled for 55 years... how all these things were not done earlier? Why were they done in 55 months? Because when Modiji and BJP say it will be done, it is not merely a slogan. We have made a meaningful change in the lives of 50 crore people.As far as employment is concerned... so far, there has not been any system of statistics (collection) that is so perfect to get an accurate measure of employment. But highways are being built at twice the speed, railways is spreading (tracks) at 2.25 times the previous speed, the power grid expanded by 2 lakh km, 8 crore toilets and 2.5 crore houses were built, irrigation capacity has increased, more than 13 crore have got Mudra loans. I am ready for a debate at any chowk in the country to argue that no other government has done more to generate employment.A lot has been done. There are 500 or more e-mandis. The support price is 1.5 times the cost of inputs. Neem-coated urea, soil health cards, assistance in floods and drought. The coverage of drip and micro irrigation has increased four times. Irrigation projects stuck for 35 years and more have been completed. There is an annual honorarium of Rs 6,000 as a gesture of solidarity with the ‘annadata’. A lot of work has been done. The agriculture budget under UPA was Rs 1.21 lakh crore. Now, it is Rs 2.11 lakh crore. This shows how much importance we accord to agriculture.This is not just a campaign theme. It is time that elections are not decided on the basis of bare slogans. It is time to fight elections on the basis of issues. Casteism, nepotism and appeasement. These issues dominated elections from the ’60s till 2014. Our democracy is now sufficiently mature and the people have accepted politics of performance. I think the issues I have outlined earlier are the ones that the people want to discuss.I do not understand... is giving Haj subsidy polarisation? Or removing it and making everyone equal polarisation? Is subjecting Muslim women to the ills of triple talaq for vote bank politics polarisation? Or is it polarisation to ensure that they get the same rights as other women in this country? I think the definition of polarisation should be decided. Instead of minority and majority politics, if we try and give the same rights to all, it is not polarisation. This is the core value of our Constitution. We have moved the country in this direction.Wait a minute! Are you saying that we had a say in determining the timing of a terror attack? Can anyone in this country decide and predict when such attacks are launched? This was decided by enemies of the country. Terrorists decided to do Pulwama . Since when did delivering a fitting reply to a terror attack become politicisation of security? If only people levelling such charges had stood like a rock with our military, there would have been no politicisation. Those who raised doubts on the capabilities of our military stand isolated today. They need to introspect. When you display political will and respond, then this creates an image or perception about the leadership in the public mind. This happened during Bangladesh (war) and also in 1965.This is not the case. You get to know from several sources. There are discussions at various levels. I am not a part of the government. I spoke on the basis of information available in the public sphere. I think that the reaction of Pakistan’s parliament, its media and of course the incursion of its air force (across the LoC) prove that the air strikes caused heavy damage. Why would they otherwise send 20 planes? Has it happened before? In fact, the terrorist organisations in Pakistan are also talking of damage. It is only our opposition that needs proof.The law of nature does not have to hold true each time. Laws of physics don’t necessarily apply to real life political situations. There are elections where a party increased its seats when an improvement did not seem possible. Here, your performance decides the result. We will do well in West Bengal, improve in the northeast and Odisha and even in the south. So, there are areas where we can grow.Every party decides its strategy. The manner in which our organisation has expanded across the country... the popularity Modiji enjoys... we would want to garner votes from all over.Did you feel they will not come with us? But they have. They will be part of the alliance now and part of the government later. It is not undemocratic to express one’s difference of opinion.Not three, but two. One party has zero seats in Lok Sabha, the other has five. The third party has zero. Earlier, when SP and Congress came together, there was much discussion that this is unbeatable. The results showed that BJP got more seats in UP (in 2017 assembly) than any party since Independence. If alliances directly translate into public support, no alliance would ever lose. BJP now has a strong organisation and the popularity of Modiji has increased several fold over 2014. Law and order has been fixed, development is picking up pace. People of UP are experiencing, after a long time, that there can be sabka saath, sabka vikas. We are 73 in UP, we will be 74 and not 72.The alliance itself shows they are nervous. Otherwise, why should people who can’t stand one another suddenly find virtues in each other? Alliances are never two plus two.See, this may not be a good way to analyse things. In 2014, we had six governments and now we have 16. Our geographical spread increased from 12% to 50%. We had 2.4 crore workers, today there are 11 crore. Our programmes have touched the lives of 22 crore families. We have their blessings. So 11 crore workers, 22 crore families... to form a government we need 17 crore votes. We are in a very strong position and have an organisation that can convert the popularity of the prime minister into votes. No one has anything to say against Modi sarkar. We have so much to say that we can exhaust ourselves. We have provided a taint-free government.Those who keep speaking lies will suffer. Just levelling allegations of corruption will not make them stick. The reputation and record of those to make such claims matters. The CAG and the Supreme Court do not agree with you (Congress) but to go on will only boomerang. They deliberately created a scandal over a crucial defence purchase to distract attention from the corruption that enjoyed state patronage under UPA. They are aware of the steps we have taken — setting up an SIT on black money, demonetisation, the surgical strike on shell companies, laws against black money and fugitive economic offenders, and dismantling of inspector raj, just to name a few.Demonetisation has brought assets and properties worth Rs 1.3 lakh crore under the I-T scanner. To take just one instance of crony capitalism and phone banking culture that flourished under UPA, total loan disbursements from banks which had stood at Rs 18 lakh crore in 2008, ballooned to Rs 52 lakh crore in 2014. As against this, the enactment of IBC has helped us recover Rs 3 lakh crore from defaulters. Those who defrauded banks for decades with impunity are now scared to come back.We are the sixth largest economy and about to replace Britain in the fifth position. We were at the 11th spot in 2013-14. Inflation has more than halved. Fiscal deficit is half of what it was and current account deficit has come down from 5.6% in 2012-2013 to 2.5%. Direct tax collection has surged from Rs 6.38 lakh crore to Rs 12 lakh crore and indirect tax collection has jumped from Rs 64 lakh crore in pre-GST days to Rs 1.2 crore lakh crore under the new scheme. Between 2013-14 and 2017-18, number of those filing I-T returns almost doubled, rising 3.79 crore to 6.86 crore. There has been 25% increase in I-T returns in the last financial year alone. You take any indicator: threefold increase in patents, registration of trademarks, which increased from 60,000 in 2013-14 to 2.5 lakh in 2017-18, jump of 42 places in ease of doing business, Moody’s rating, and you can see the effort to build the foundation of ‘Naya Bharat’ and its results.I do agree that there were teething troubles. But the government has decided that there is no need for registration till a threshold of Rs 40 lakh, this exempts 80% businesses. Similarly, those with Rs 60 lakh turnover do not need to pay income tax, means 90% businessmen are out of the net. This is a big thing. Direct and indirect tax revenues have risen as have the number of people with PAN who are assessees. I think no amount of disinformation will work.These were assembly elections. We got more votes in Madhya Pradesh , we polled 47,000 more votes. In Rajasthan, the difference was just 1,88,000 votes or 0.5%. In Chhattisgarh , of course, we suffered a heavy defeat which is a cause for concern. I think in terms of organisation, these are strong states for BJP. The issues in a national election are different. The central issue in the elections is who will be the PM? Opposition does not have a leader, it is directionless.This happens every time. All political parties do this (change candidates). That is possible this time too. But I think that is not the ‘mudda’. It is not who will be the MP. It is a matter for a constituency. But the questions for the public mind are the ones I have outlined.In the end, won’t you consider whether the country’s military is to be strengthened? Who will keep the nation secure? A decisive leader or a group of 22 leaders? The Lok Sabha election can never be on these lines. Modiji is among the most popular PMs in the world. He works 18 hours every day. He is a clean and empathetic leader. He is a decisive leader who will not allow India’s honour to be lowered. His foreign policy has earned India respect all over the world. The people identify with this.They delude themselves because they also want to become PM. The only problem is that they cannot without winning the election. And do you think that we will let their falsehoods go unchallenged? Our cadre, our party, our leaders will be in the poll arena with a narrative which is in line with their experience of Modi government. I am confident about our performance. We have done nothing that will make us lower our heads. We will go into the elections seeking the blessings of people with humility and with our head held high because we have done nothing to embarrass them.All that will be there. There have been some big outreaches. We have visited beneficiaries of our schemes. Then there was ‘mera ghar, BJP parivar’. Our efforts have resulted in a huge number of social media impressions like 160 and 200 crore. The biggest effort is to be in touch with 22 crore beneficiaries of our programmes. With humility we say — you have got cooking gas, you have got a house — there are many who are waiting, so please support us so that we can complete the task. The youth, farmers, women believe in Modiji.A big step for the general category is the 10% quota legislated by the government. This has been done without reducing the reservation for SC, ST, OBC. Providing reservation to children of poor families is to address their needs and help their future. This has been done in a very good manner.The income of those earning up to Rs 5 lakh is non-taxable. Small and middle businessmen are part of the middle class. There is relief for them in GST. Cost of medicines is controlled. Inflation is largely under control, value of savings has gone up. We have also met expectations that the pride of the nation will be enhanced under Modiji.Tribals live in areas where minerals are found. Have they benefited from this? We have set up a district development fund to ensure that they benefit from this wealth. No one factor is so overwhelming. Bamboo is now grass and a farm product. The contributions of tribals to national life has been acknowledged. The way the government has been run must be compared with the past 10 years under UPA marked by corruption, policy paralysis and compromising national security for political vote banks. We have delivered on about 90% of the promises we made.We are clear that there should be a grand temple at Janmasthan in Ayodhya and this should be at the earliest. I only want to ask — does the opposition want a temple there? It should clarify before the elections. We are now trying to return 42 acres of the Ram Janmabhoomi Nyas.That is okay, it is a legal process. If everyone agrees and there is a consensus, why would we object? But we want a temple there at the earliest.