President Donald Trump’s attorney has come up with an excuse to explain why he once defended Michael Cohen: He didn’t really know him. “I don’t know what happened to him,” Giuliani told ABC News. “A few months ago he wasn’t telling all of these lies.” The president’s lawyer said he had no idea Trump’s longtime fixer was a fan of recording his clients. “I didn’t know him very well,” Giuliani said. Earlier this month, Giuliani had told ABC News that he had “no concerns that Michael Cohen is going to do anything but tell the truth.”

Giuliani also accused Cohen of violating attorney-client privilege and said he should stop making any further statements about his conversations with the president. But Lanny Davis, Cohen’s attorney, said that Giuliani “seems to be confused.” Davis noted that “he waived attorney-client privilege last week and repeatedly and inaccurately —as proven by the tape—talked and talked about the recording, forfeiting all confidentiality.” Giuliani, meanwhile, confirmed Trump’s legal teams has cut ties and ended the joint agreement with Cohen to share information.

Trump’s lawyer also revealed that part of their pushback against Cohen’s recordings includes hiring experts to analyze the recordings. In particular, there seems to be a bit of focus on the way the tape appears to cut off at one point during a conversation about a payment involving allegations by Playboy model Karen McDougal that she had an affair with Trump. “We’ve had it analyzed by several experts, not just for audio,” he said. “But we’ve had it analyzed and there’s no way to tell if he did it at the time or if he went back and edited out a portion, because it goes on to another subject and stops abruptly.”