Sorry for my bad english, it's not my native language.



I played a decent bunch of UU since the beginning of this generation and, despite i don't understand all the intricacies of pokemon as a competitive game yet (i started the competitive play with SS), some things outstand to me. First of, I would say the lack of good rapid spinner besides Tsareena but more relevantly in this current thread the lack of good physdef wall, or at least with reliable longevity move. That might be not an issue but i found myself being clancked between the hammer and the anvil with my defensive G-Weezing trying to wall Mamoswine many times. As many said, Shuca Cobalion is a one shot, Golisopod which is a beast until he lose its HDB into any of the plenty Knock off mons running around.



Where checking it might not be an issue, revenge kill it is somehow impossible to me in the meantime of Haxorus. Where I find myself Scarf Flygon decently checking Haxorus, it gets OHKO by an Ice Shard of a Jolly Mamoswine running any LO Set, which is totally fine. Other faster mons in the tier have all their own checks as Scarf Gardevoir/Scarf Chandelure being well checked by Gigalith, First Impression mons by both full hp Noivern but mostly G-Weezing, Heliolisk often lacks of power, or either are checked by our lovely Mamo.



What is outstanding to me is that I can't handle both Haxorus and Mamoswine in the same time. I've to choose between one or the other. I follow Moutemoute in his thought process (I myself thought about balancing other games with a competitive environment) where he's thinking about the "layer 2" of this possible ban. My analysis of a possible outcome, that might be too simple, is Haxorus becoming the threat. Correct me if i'm wrong, DD Haxorus, with the plenty of settup fodder in the tier, shall break the defensive core which Moutemoute talked about (which I've identified too after looking at the UUPL Week 1 replays aswell), as Mamoswine does.



+1 252 Atk Mold Breaker Haxorus Outrage vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Noivern: 774-912 (206.9 - 243.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+1 252 Atk Mold Breaker Haxorus Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 108 Def Incineroar: 418-492 (106.3 - 125.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+1 252 Atk Mold Breaker Haxorus Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Bronzong: 314-370 (92.8 - 109.4%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery



(I've based my calcs on UU showdown usage)



In my point of view, Haxorus fills the same spot as Mamoswine does but in its disadvantage has many more flaws that we all know : CB is prediction heavy, relying on First Impression to revenge kill, Outrage locking can be walled by fairy types, and it falls when burnt ; meanwhile DD needs to set up itself (which is easily doable) and kinda needs to run Lum Berry, and needs +2 to outspeed his most common revenge killer in name of Scarf Flygon.



If I try to think about the "layer 3" based on my "layer 2" analysis, it looks to me Haxorus has a lot more counterplays (which is kinda obvious) implying a more evolutive metagame than Mamoswine which provides, as well as its destroying stabs, a lot a support for his team in name of Knock off creepling mons for its mates, Ice Shard revenge killing mons, and Stealth Rock.



Outside the comparison with Haxorus, which might be not as relevant as I think it is, the combination of his speed tier and the many sets it can run, between LO 4 Attacks, LO 3 Attacks+SR, Sash max speed, Sash max hp, Choice Band or either Choice Scarf (which is very surprising), makes it very very difficult to handle and prediction heavy. It has happened to me many times being caught off guard by a Sash set or a Scarf one (less vulnerable to rock), or being torn apart by a CB set while switch in with my physically defensive G-Weezing or my mixed def Mantine on Icicle Crash predicting EQ.



Fighting and building against is oppressive to me, often relying of a landed Will-o-wisp or a 30% scald burn to deal with which i find in particular unhealthy. On the other hand, fighting with and building around is really easy. It takes care reliably two mons in a game. At first glance, i would lean towards a ban. Although, I understand Moutemoute point of view from my experience in other games : Mamoswine clearly surfs on the UU metagame since the beginning of Gen 8, though the meta has always been in his favor like Noivern. Sure, it never has been better than now but banning should be the last solution as we want more pokemons not less, and banning Mamoswine can potentially reveal a bigger problem. Mamoswine is maybe a necessary evil right now. Furthermore, Haxorus could be another problem with the banning of Mamoswine as one of its revenge killer.