DanceCommand Profile Joined May 2013 Finland 11 Posts Last Edited: 2013-07-16 20:22:12 #1



+ Show Spoiler +

Available on: EU

Size: 162x162

Main-to-main worker scout: close positions 60 s, cross positions 65 s

Bases: 16 8m2g with 8m4g in the middle

Xel'naga towers: none

Destructible Rocks: 16

Collapsible Rocks: none (Thinking of adding some tho -- maybe remove some destructibles and add collapsibles.)



The map:





I wanted to go for something a little unconventional while still keeping the standard of three accessible bases. There are several rocks that open up counter attack paths as the game progresses. Little to no balancing has been done yet as it is a port of sorts from a completely different game. Any suggestions and all feedback are extremely welcome!



Some closeups:



Disclaimer: I'm still pretty new to mapmaking so be gentle!



EU162x162close positions 60 s, cross positions 65 s16 8m2g with 8m4g in the middlenone16none (Thinking of adding some tho -- maybe remove some destructibles and add collapsibles.)The map:I wanted to go for something a little unconventional while still keeping the standard of three accessible bases. There are several rocks that open up counter attack paths as the game progresses. Little to no balancing has been done yet as it is a port of sorts from a completely different game. Any suggestions and all feedback are extremely welcome!Some closeups: http://imgur.com/a/1SFKr Disclaimer: I'm still pretty new to mapmaking so be gentle!



EDIT:



So here's the updated version (still only on EU for now):



Map Version: 1.3

Size: 162x162

Main-to-main worker scout: close positions 55 s, cross positions 65 s

Bases: 16 8m2g with 8m4g in the middle

Xel'naga towers: none

Destructible Rocks: 8

Collapsible Rocks: 4







So in my attempt to make the map less turtly I've moved the ramps into the 3rd a bit and added rocks to help keep the natural safer against early rushes. Third base is also moved back a bit and natural choke is widened. Fourth base now has an additional ramp that will make it harder to defend against ground armies. The open areas are now a bit wider and as a result some paths have been narrowed. The back door is now available from the get go but can be shut down by collapsing the rock towers at 3,6,9 and 12 o'clock positions you can also wall in with minimun of two 2x2 buildings (e.g. forge and a pylon with a cannon behind will keep you safe, I believe, against 6-7 pools). The ledge surrounding the map is now unpathable. Mineral patches have been rearranged to promote more aggression. Map layout based on a Supreme Commander map called Eye of the Storm . I tried to get as close as possible to the original but considering the differences in games it didn't turn out quite as I hoped, still, I think it has potential.EDIT:So here's the updated version (still only on EU for now):1.3162x162close positions 55 s, cross positions 65 s16 8m2g with 8m4g in the middlenoneSo in my attempt to make the map less turtly I've moved the ramps into the 3rd a bit and added rocks to help keep the natural safer against early rushes. Third base is also moved back a bit and natural choke is widened. Fourth base now has an additional ramp that will make it harder to defend against ground armies. The open areas are now a bit wider and as a result some paths have been narrowed. The back door is now available from the get go but can be shut down by collapsing the rock towers at 3,6,9 and 12 o'clock positions you can also wall in with minimun of two 2x2 buildings (e.g. forge and a pylon with a cannon behind will keep you safe, I believe, against 6-7 pools). The ledge surrounding the map is now unpathable. Mineral patches have been rearranged to promote more aggression. Life is more interesting when you look at the back of things. Women, that’s obvious. Baseball cards. Puppet shows…

InfCereal Profile Joined December 2011 Canada 1555 Posts #2 Turtle heaven. I can't even think of a reason someone wouldn't turtle on this map. I can't give any design suggestions since I'm not experienced with map making, but I would veto this in an instant if it was in the map pool. I would almost feel comfortable going 4 hatch before pool on this map, which isn't a good thing.



In all honesty, if it wasn't so easy to turtle in this game, I think this map would make for some interesting high harass games. If you couldn't sit in the middle of the 4 bases with cannons, building walls, and siege units, I think the closeness of the bases would allow some aggressive dropping/mutalisk play, and would reward the high multitasking player. Unfortunately, that's not the case, so we'd probably end up with no rush 20 minute games where both players sat in their bases until they were maxxed. Cereal :: AllThingsZerg.com :: SC2Overwatch.com

HypertonicHydroponic Profile Blog Joined October 2010 437 Posts #3 I cannot lie... I love this map. In fact, I love it so much I hate you... because I was just thinking of doing something similar, and you beat me to it. ={



This map reminds me a bit of Andromeda which was a really fun map to watch play out (especially in really long games, ahem, Stork).



Despite zerg *maybe* being able to go 4 base early, I feel that they might have trouble holding the fourth in particular, but a third as well against tanks, drops, colossus, and air unless they focus almost entirely on mutas. I don't know what kind of muta timing you can get with 4 base before pool and still hold those protruding 3rd/4ths. Unless of course you go for a Broodwar style of 3rd/4th where you take another main/natural and connect with a nydus.



In any event, it seems like a fun map to play. [P] The Watery Archives -- http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=279070

-NegativeZero- Profile Joined August 2011 United States 2101 Posts #4 One quick way to slightly reduce the turtliness would be to make the 3rd and 4th both 3/4 bases. i maek map

RFDaemoniac Profile Joined September 2011 United States 544 Posts #5



I'm not a fan of multiple easy 3/4 bases... You could open up the paths around the outside and make them more susceptible to harass so you have to control more of the middle. Here's an image where I've edited the bottom left corner

Hertzy Profile Joined September 2011 Finland 302 Posts #6 I noticed that there's actually a backdoor from the third to the main. It was a bit before my time, but backdoors to main fell out of favor at some point for some reason, I suspect the ease of rushing through the backdoor.



Although one would think that would balance out the otherwise turtly nature of the map, I'm not sure if two extremes are the way to go. Actually, I may be overthinking it but that backdoor might be workable in this map. My dotabuff: http://dotabuff.com/players/94774350

Broodie Profile Blog Joined May 2008 Canada 831 Posts #7 condense the routes a bit is the only thing I have to say after glancing?



A 2 player rendition might be a bit more inticing SilentLiquid.Broodie - Author of Tango Terminal, Ophilia RE, Cajun Quandary, & The Beneath

Fuchsteufelswild Profile Joined October 2009 Australia 2027 Posts Last Edited: 2013-07-15 23:22:08 #8

A lot of passageways, it might be a funny but interesting map to try to split.



I think taking a fifth will feel more awkward if you spawn with your enemy clockwise by one position than anti-clockwise, because the ramp to the closest fifth anti-clockwise (9 o'clock if you spawn in top left) is only accessible from the opposite side and you will have VERY narrow passageways to move through if you go straight down the left side to defend that base (after removing the rocks).

Perhaps those rocks at 3, 6, 9 and 12 o'clock would be better as collapsible rocks.



The other main issue I see is lack of space to plant your buildings, at least looking at it. I haven't loaded the map to check, but it looks like that could be a big problem.

162×162 means there's probably not quite as little available space as it looks though, I suppose.



It may well be a little too tight in some places, namely the entrance to the natural. That looks so horribly tight.A lot of passageways, it might be a funny but interesting map to try to split.I think taking a fifth will feel more awkward if you spawn with your enemy clockwise by one position than anti-clockwise, because the ramp to the closest fifth anti-clockwise (9 o'clock if you spawn in top left) is only accessible from the opposite side and you will have VERY narrow passageways to move through if you go straight down the left side to defend that base (after removing the rocks).Perhaps those rocks at 3, 6, 9 and 12 o'clock would be better as collapsible rocks.The other main issue I see is lack of space to plant your buildings, at least looking at it. I haven't loaded the map to check, but it looks like that could be a big problem.162×162 means there's probably not quite as little available space as it looks though, I suppose. On July 16 2013 05:54 Broodie wrote:

A 2 player rendition might be a bit more inticing

Yes, I think that might be nicer actually.

Either angle the anti-clockwise "closest fifth' bases (which are all the closest "fourth" of another position) a little more towards that player (angle them clockwise to aid that player, like 8:30" to favour the top left player)

OR

leave them and angle the clockwise "closes fifth" (the "third" of another position) anti-clockwise, to help them, so 1 o'clock towards top left.

Maybe no angling is needed, but making that the likely expansion path is probably ideal (or at least for zerg, otherwise depends on playstyle, so mech might not do this).

On the other hand, angling the "third" AWAY from the base would probably be good, i.e. move the 9:30" base clockwise 45° or so and pushing it down a bit, so that it is a little further away from the natural there, with the ramps horizontal, that might open a little bit of space so that the path into the natural isn't so tight.



I'm picturing this

It could be a 4 position map locked into diagonal only, but personally it's my impression that that would make this map work the most interestingly.



It feels a little like Katrina that way, without the free natural behind your main. Yes, I think that might be nicer actually.Either angle the anti-clockwise "closest fifth' bases (which are all the closest "fourth" of another position) a little more towards that player (angle them clockwise to aid that player, like 8:30" to favour the top left player)ORleave them and angle the clockwise "closes fifth" (the "third" of another position) anti-clockwise, to help them, so 1 o'clock towards top left.Maybe no angling is needed, but making that the likely expansion path is probably ideal (or at least for zerg, otherwise depends on playstyle, so mech might not do this).On the other hand, angling the "third" AWAY from the base would probably be good, i.e. move the 9:30" base clockwise 45° or so and pushing it down a bit, so that it is a little further away from the natural there, with the ramps horizontal, that might open a little bit of space so that the path into the natural isn't so tight.It could be a 4 position map locked into diagonal only, but personally it's my impression that that would make this map work the most interestingly.It feels a little like Katrina that way, without the free natural behind your main. ZerO - FantaSy - Calm - Nal_rA - Jaedong - NaDa - EffOrt - Bisu - by.hero - StarDust - Welmu - Nerchio - Supernova - Solar - Squirtle - LosirA - Grubby - IntoTheRainbow - Golden... ~~~ Incredible Miracle and Woongjin Stars 화이팅!

DanceCommand Profile Joined May 2013 Finland 11 Posts #9 On July 16 2013 06:37 Fuchsteufelswild wrote:



I'm picturing this

It could be a 4 position map locked into diagonal only, but personally it's my impression that that would make this map work the most interestingly.



It feels a little like Katrina that way, without the free natural behind your main. It could be a 4 position map locked into diagonal only, but personally it's my impression that that would make this map work the most interestingly.It feels a little like Katrina that way, without the free natural behind your main.



There's good feedback here and I also got a lot of useful comments on



As for this,



There's good feedback here and I also got a lot of useful comments on reddit . What you're picturing is actually pretty much where I'm leaning towards as well -- I'd love to keep all spawns available but if it doesn't work out I'll probably just iterate the map into a 2P or cross-only map. I already went with quite a different setup of rocks at the 3,6,9 and 12 o'clock positions.As for this, On July 16 2013 04:18 Hertzy wrote:

I noticed that there's actually a backdoor from the third to the main. It was a bit before my time, but backdoors to main fell out of favor at some point for some reason, I suspect the ease of rushing through the backdoor.



Although one would think that would balance out the otherwise turtly nature of the map, I'm not sure if two extremes are the way to go. Actually, I may be overthinking it but that backdoor might be workable in this map.



I'm really feeling that the backdoor might be ok considering how the game has developed since HotS. I did modify the map so that you can wall of relatively easily and protect the mineral line at the same time. Not shure how that'll affect terran players tho... :/ I do feel like with the latest additions I've made it's going to be a huge gamble or a long ass way to go around in order to abuse the backdoor. I'm really feeling that the backdoor might be ok considering how the game has developed since HotS. I did modify the map so that you can wall of relatively easilyprotect the mineral line at the same time. Not shure how that'll affect terran players tho... :/ I do feel like with the latest additions I've made it's going to be a huge gamble or a long ass way to go around in order to abuse the backdoor. Life is more interesting when you look at the back of things. Women, that’s obvious. Baseball cards. Puppet shows…

NKB Profile Joined February 2012 United Kingdom 608 Posts #10 Would like to see some games on it to see how they play out I really like the look of this map, well done on making itWould like to see some games on it to see how they play out Some times you just gotta wish...

DanceCommand Profile Joined May 2013 Finland 11 Posts #11 On July 17 2013 01:35 NKB wrote:

I really like the look of this map, well done on making it Would like to see some games on it to see how they play out I really like the look of this map, well done on making itWould like to see some games on it to see how they play out



You and me both :D I was watching IronMans stream a while back and figured that I could do the same with balance testing. Then I remembered that my pc is 7 years old and would explode if I tried to run anything else at the same time with sc2. >.< You and me both :D I was watching IronMans stream a while back and figured that I could do the same with balance testing. Then I remembered that my pc is 7 years old and would explode if I tried to run anything else at the same time with sc2. >. Life is more interesting when you look at the back of things. Women, that’s obvious. Baseball cards. Puppet shows…

DanceCommand Profile Joined May 2013 Finland 11 Posts #12 I've updated the map quite a bit, would love to hear more of your thoughts! I'm especially worried about close positions if the game progresses beyond three bases, might have to make it cross only. Life is more interesting when you look at the back of things. Women, that’s obvious. Baseball cards. Puppet shows…

Fuchsteufelswild Profile Joined October 2009 Australia 2027 Posts #13 With the mineral placements, defending air harassment with ground units is probably going to be a big pain, just something to consider.

I'd have thought the backdoor collapsible rocks should be collapsed (blocking the path) by default, because otherwise, proxies there might be too hard to defend maybe? Tight areas might favour proxy barracks with potential for bunkers, where as a defender will (maybe?) have started a wall-off at the front.

I'm just concerned that it might promote too much early aggression and make it very hard to defend your base without committing a lot (more than you will usually have at whatever stage) of units to collapsing the rocks somewhat early on. ZerO - FantaSy - Calm - Nal_rA - Jaedong - NaDa - EffOrt - Bisu - by.hero - StarDust - Welmu - Nerchio - Supernova - Solar - Squirtle - LosirA - Grubby - IntoTheRainbow - Golden... ~~~ Incredible Miracle and Woongjin Stars 화이팅!

gronnelg Profile Joined December 2010 Norway 354 Posts #14 Oh wow! Great impovement on the latest version! Gw! Lulzez || My stream: http://www.twitch.tv/gronnelg