Dispensary advocates petition for community support

The recent shut-down of a local medicinal marijuana dispensary and Compassion Club in Grand Forks has got the town talking, rumours flying and advocates attempting to educate and promote awareness in order to garner support for their cause.

The Kootenay’s Medicine Tree has been dispensing several strains of dried bud and cannabis concentrates—derivatives including ingestible oils, capsules and topical applications—to its members since August 2014. A detailed intake procedure is required for membership approval, including authorization by a doctor or substantial documentation of an approved medical condition.

According to Health Canada, “Dried marijuana is not an approved drug or medicine in Canada. The Government of Canada does not endorse the use of marijuana, but the courts have required reasonable access to a legal source of marijuana when authorized by a physician.”

Following up complaints about the dispensary activities, two plainclothes officers from the General Investigations Section (GIS) in Trail paid a visit to Kootenay Medicine Tree Executive Director Jim Leslie at his Christina Lake home to discuss the concerns. There were two complaints, according to Grand Forks RCMP Staff Sgt. Jim Harrison. One file was opened and a letter was also received. "The complaint was [Leslie] was illegally selling marijuana and marijuana products which, by his own admission, is quite factual."

With any founded complaint, the RCMP are obligated take action. "I can't tell that citizen I'm not going to do anything about [their] complaint. I don't have that option . . .There is no provision in law at this time to allow the business to do what it's doing . . . He [Leslie] knows that—it's one of those things.” In this case, Harrison explained, he chose to use 'officer discretion' and issued a warning. "We didn't go in and raid the place," he laughed, "We didn't arrest anybody, we didn't recommend charges against anybody, we dealt with the issue in what we thought was a fair and very well thought-out manner."

Harrison said Leslie “was very cooperative," voluntarily agreeing to shut down storefront operations, and the complainants “were very happy with the action taken."

In defense of the RCMP Leslie said, "And they're right too, because from their perspective they enforce a law—albeit a bad law—and they did their job. They had a report, they came to talk to me, I said I'd stop, they walked away, file resolved. We're still continuing to give access through other means, but we're not doing it through the storefront, and that's what they wanted.”

Quashing the rumours

When asked about speculation around town and on social media regarding the complainants, Harrison said he couldn't divulge the names—which are protected under the Privacy Act—but wanted to put a stop rumours that they were made by local elected officials. "No, I can definitely confirm that is not where they came from. Everybody's entitled to their opinions, but be careful you don't slander somebody when you're expressing your opinion."

Harrison was also quick to defend another community member who, due to her previous outspokenness against the dispensary at the mayoral candidates debate and in a letter to the Gazette, was also the subject of similar assumptions. "I can tell you right now that she didn't," said Harrison. "She wrote a letter to the editor but she didn't make a formal complaint. I'll quash that one right now." Leslie also came to her defense, confirming that she had met with him personally, they had a good discussion, and the outcome of their conversation appeared to be positive.

Harrison disclosed that there are ”an awful lot of” people in the community opposed to “all of this” who aren’t publicly outspoken. “Matter of fact, we've had a couple of phone calls here at the office asking us to put there name on the petition saying we don't want this in our community—believe it or not!" He said that there is also a lot of support for the dispensary, but that won’t keep them immune from the law. “We're not going to hold a referendum and then make our decision from that. That's not within our ability either."

Despite some speculation from local community members that out-of-town officers were sent in to do the "dirty work", Harrison said that wasn't the case at all. "As a matter of fact, I personally handled the file." He said he was prepared to take whatever action needed to be taken, but also chose to request assistance from Trail. "A lot of times in cases like that we do use our plain clothes section to do that type of work, so nothing unusual about that."

Dispensaries in other communities

Harrison was unable to comment on why dispensaries in other municipalities are being allowed to do business. "I have no idea, I can't speak for other communities." He thinks the “key word is they're not being allowed to run, they just are running." He also can't speak for police forces in other communities or other RCMP detachments, and has no idea if they have current investigations going on or not.

"I can guarantee you this," said Harrison "That not one of them has a letter of permission from a police department!" He laughed. Even though the vast majority of these operations have been given business licenses, Harrison said, "Yeah, but again, that's unrelated to what they're doing. All it means is that they're involved in retail sales, which are what the area is zoned for; and that's how the city is kind of looking at it. The fact that those retail sales are illegal—obviously the cities [have] taken a position that it's none of their business."

Despite his cooperation with local law enforcement, Leslie questions the actions brought on by one formal complaint and one letter. He points out that opponents are in every community that has a dispensary, so “why does an extremely small group of people count against the vast majority that obviously support it? . . . That would be like telling us that in Vancouver, Kelowna, Vernon and Nelson, not one person has ever complained to the police about those dispensaries. Of course they have. They probably complain once a week. The people that don't like this type of model of distribution for medical cannabis are not going to be quiet about it.”

Leslie thinks that legal involvement should reflect 1) priorities of the police, and 2) what about the operation is a problem? “If it's just that we don't have a piece of paper, fine. We acknowledge that. But come after us for that paper maybe when everything else is solved like rape, the sales of hard drugs in Christina Lake and in Grand Forks—because I know what's going on there—and it's a tough thing to deal with, because when other municipalities and their police forces have shown tolerance, why not here? There was no complaint about any untoward activity, any criminal activity other than the fact that we didn't have a license.”

Fellow director Marvin Wyers explained that other dispensaries have business front signs, which “has got us a little bit.” The dispensary was told not to put signage up, which gave some people the impression they were trying to operate under the radar. “We were trying to be compliant in that sense, but it seems like it's almost hurt us."

"The impression Leslie got was that although law enforcement would not give permission to operate, they likely wouldn't interfere if there wasn’t reasonable cause. “So our interpretation of that is: Be responsible, don't have pot leaves in the window. In fact, we didn't even put the name of our business on the window until it went on that little piece of paper.” He said that it's not because they were nefarious or hiding. Other dispensaries don't have a lot of signage. Those who need to know where the dispensary is know. If they don't, they don't need to know.

"We wanted to be very tactful, number one, about our presence,” said Leslie, stressing the precautions taken to ensure the dispensary didn’t draw the attention of children in a wrong way. He also pointed out that they don't have a lot of money and are barely scraping by, so they weren’t able to put up “fancy things that a shop in Vancouver would have."

Despite having significant investment offers from outside of the city to do this in a grander way, Leslie and the board decided not to accept, "Because we needed to do this in a way that the town would respect and respond to."

Leslie said that most of the people he talks to who run dispensaries in the interior have little or no contact with the RCMP. "They don't even come in their shop. They certainly don't get GIS constables on their doorstep asking them questions.” He believes this is because these communities are acting more like big cities with big city problems. “I mean, they don't have the time to mess around with a dispensary that's clearly just providing it to the ill. They've got bigger things to deal with."

Leslie also cites strength in numbers for bigger communities like Vernon, where there are five dispensaries, and Kelowna, which has a couple. “If you want to start taking them down, you're looking at a lot of hassle, a lot of public support. They've got lawyers ready for that stuff. So do we, but we're small. We're by ourselves. We don't have a lot of money. They know that. So it's easier, I think, to close one small dispensary rather than it is to wade into a city and try and close five at once. The pushback on that would be immense."

An example of this occurred in May 2014, when the Crown dropped charges against the owner of a Kamloops marijuana dispensary raided by police in 2011. The decision to drop the charges was based on two factors — the likelihood of conviction and public interest.

More recently, RCMP raided a new dispensary in Kelowna last week. While the other dispensaries in town are still operating without any hassles from local law enforcement, the owner of Black Crow Herbal Solutions is facing possible charges of trafficking, which is different than selling to people with medical authorization.

Purpose of the petition

Regarding the petition that the Medicine Tree is hoping to bring forward to city council, Harrison said that it will make no difference as to how the RCMP deal with them or any similar businesses, at least not until the laws are changed. "Unfortunately, it wouldn't have any impact on us whatsoever, because this is a federal statute. It's under the Controlled Drugs and Substances Act. A municipality can't say that we're not going to enforce this federal statute in our community—their community charter does not give them that authority."

"What he [Harrison] is saying is right to a point,” said Leslie, and community members have been asking what the petition is meant to accomplish. He admits the wording should have been more concise so people understand that all they are requesting is public support.

Leslie explained that the petition is a tool to gain council’s attention and get them to take a publicly open stance. “And if they don't know why they should take that position, they need to educate themselves, and that's what we're also trying to help them accomplish too.”

If they can display to elected leaders that the dispensary has vast local community support for accessing both dried cannabis and its derivatives, says Leslie, “then they as leaders can stand up regardless of the fact that we don't have a license or whatever the legal situation is, and they can say we support in principle unfettered access to those who need it to cannabis derivatives and medical products. That alone would show us that we didn't waste our time, that we've got somewhere to go in this community and that, eventually, we can do this again.”

Leslie warns that this won’t happen if council remains ignorant to the situation or if they ignore it. However, he strongly believes that the populace is going to show that they need to pay attention to this. “In this day and age, with all the science that's in on cannabis, you do not want to be on the wrong side of this issue politically. You just don't.”

They never had the naïve thought that the petition would enable their doors to open again the day after the council meeting, said Leslie. In 2011, long before the dispensary opened, he and the other directors presented to the RDKB and got “unanimous public support, in principle, for the growing, production and sale of medical cannabis in this region.” He explained that is all they are looking for from this council, without asking them to back any illegal activity—“To do just what the RDKB did back in 2011. To show courage and to represent your populace, who the majority of either support this or probably require this at some point—if not now, in the future.”

Leslie pointed out that there are a large percentage of seniors living here and one of the Medicine Tree’s largest membership categories is comprised of seniors who are leaving at least half of their prescription drugs behind for cannabis. “It doesn't matter what general practitioner physician wants to argue that point, it's a fact and it's just going to snowball over time. So they'll catch up to the research and they'll see what's happening here, but I think that the leadership does need to support compassionate local access."

If you would like to sign the petition you can click here or drop in to the resource centre.

Moving forward with education and support

Leslie will continue to run the storefront strictly as an educational resource and information centre for their membership and the public at large. "My strength is in educating. I know a lot about cannabis dispensing; but where I came from—what I was able to do—and my strength is in presenting information, sharing information and getting people educated on other options that are not toxic.”

There will be no sales of cannabis to members through the dispensary. “Our understanding is when the police come and talk to you about the fact that they can come in with warrants it means they can do it anytime they want because they've already got the information they need to obtain the warrants." This means that any product in the store at the time would be seized and not returned.

Says Leslie, "It's really important to respect the position they're in, to try and work around that to the best we can, and not to sacrifice access to the membership, because we won't. That's why we're here. It's like walking up to Kyla's family or anyone else that we help and saying ‘Sorry, because we don't have a piece of paper you get no more oil.’ That's cruel, and that won't happen."

Kyla is the 2-year-old Summerland girl who was diagnosed with intractable (uncontrolled) epilepsy with abnormal brain activity in the cortical visual area. The family tried many different drugs and steroids, as well as the Ketogenic Diet. Kyla's body rejected the diet and all pharmaceuticals, with her seizures increasing up to 200 per day by her second birthday. Doctors provided no other drug options and said the little girl would seizure the rest of her life.

The family contacted Leslie after hearing about children with similar conditions being treated successfully with cannabis in Colorado. One hour after the first dose of ingestible oil high in CBD and low in THC, Kyla's seizures stopped altogether for three weeks. According to the family's recent letter published in local media, she only experiences light seizures now—zero to ten per day—and has started developing again. Although she isn't cured, she is happy and much healthier. The last EEG showed no seizures or spasms, and her abnormal brain activity showed slight improvement. The family has started a website Medical Cannabis for Kids where you can find more information.

The problem with Health Canada licensing

Leslie was told by officers that getting a valid Health Canada license would help their situation, as the Medicine Tree does not hold one despite having a business license from the city, and support in principle from Interior Health and the local fire department. Leslie explained that licensing would prohibit the dispensary from providing anything other than dried bud for smoking, which is neither a feasible nor healthy method of ingestion for children or even for many adults. Smoking is also not as effective as other methods.

Licensed growers in Canada can only produce and sell dried marijuana. Producing the edibles and topical products that many people depend on is not allowed. "You can't do any of that," said Leslie. "No company that's paid millions of dollars to be viable in the new federal system—which we're not— . . . can sell these products; and they wish that they could." Leslie is optimistic that the legal system will eventually support what he wants to do, "but right now it sucks because it's highly restrictive and it kills business and it restricts people from the safest, most therapeutic products, which is ridiculous!"

Leslie says they get frequent comments from members across the country who have kids with various forms of pediatric epilepsy saying, "OK, we've jumped through the hoops, we've got the federal license, we went to x company, we got a strain that was 18-20% CBD, awesome! Came to the door—now what the hell do we do?"

What often happens, says Leslie, is these parents then get people telling them how to make recipes on their stove with cooking oil or, "God forbid, you try to extract it with flammable solvents, trying to make the concentrates that we provide." These types of DIY projects are dangerous and can result in serious explosions, which Leslie says was the reasoning behind the cancellation of the last federal system—because it allowed people to grow their medicine at home. In actuality, according to the stats, there were very few fires, but “[the government] forced people into a system where, in order to make the medicine, the final product, they were forced to use solvents on their kitchen stove."

Ironically, says Leslie, “Every bottle of hemp oil in the grocery store, every container of hemp hearts, every bottle of protein powder has CBD in it.” He explained that they don't put it on the label and are not required to test for it to ship it internationally; but a quarter cup of hemp hearts contains about 10 mg of CBD, which is a Schedule 2 drug and just as illegal as THC.

Leslie says that they don’t test for CBD in hemp food because it can’t be removed. “When people—generally senior citizens—get into hemp food and they're eating a couple cups of hemp hearts a day, and they're getting mood improvement and they're losing weight, and all these things are happening, and the skin is improving, it's not just omega 3—sorry. It is the unspoken cannabidiol (CBD). So hemp foods and hemp products are medicated, but no one's talking about it.”

If people want to speak out against medical cannabis, Leslie says they had better criminalize every hemp product in the grocery store. His best advice to those who are against it to “take the science, get educated and at least don't provide an impediment to people that want to be free of toxic medicine.”

Regaining health versus maintaining health

Cannabis actually modulates the immune system, both boosting and suppressing depending on what the body needs. "In fact," said Leslie, "If you look at the research and you look back only a couple of years, in HIV cases, this is huge! This is amazing stuff. “

THC slows viral reproduction in people infected with HIV by causing the CD4 defensive immune cells to shore up their own defenses to the virus so they don't get penetrated, invaded and taken over. Its action is similar on the Hep C virus. It kills cancer cells and shrinks tumors, “We've had people actually cure their cancer with concentrated cannabinoid products; and these compounds interplay with your own body's master homeostatic system.”

Leslie explains that there is nothing more important in your body than the endocannabinoid system, which was only discovered in 1988. He is surprised that not more people are excited about this. “I've read about this for 16 years, this keeps me up at night. I love this stuff! Why a GP in their practice, who sees people getting better from the use of cannabis—whether regulated or not—why they wouldn't have the slightest bit of curiosity to follow that down into our industry and see how far down we are this path of making this accessible and making these non-smokable options. I don't get that."

Leslie said that it was the same thing for himself. "I joined federal law enforcement. I went through all the training programs. I did all this stuff. I'm a compassionate human being. So at the end of the day, that didn't color my view of the world because I'm a person first; and doctors every other professional in this business, should probably look at it that way. This comes down to maintaining a more easily available, non-toxic option that actually helps people regain health, not maintain what little health they have until they spiral down into whatever their fate is."

Doctors and the law

Under the old system, explained Leslie, physicians were required to refer to a Health Canada list of Category One and Category Two medical conditions when giving authorization to patients seeking medical marijuana. Category One consisted of six serious conditions. Category Two allowed for pretty much any other medical condition.

Under the new system there is no list, he says. "It's sign here, you're legal. You don't even have to write the condition at all." The doctor signs for you and then you take the authorization to the company. Leslie notes, however, that the Canadian College of Family Physicians—body that gives guidelines to doctors—is highly restrictive in their recommendations to general practitioners and family physicians.

These recommendations apply specifically to smoked cannabis. According to Leslie, if you go to a doctor and say that you are not smoking cannabis, "They have no guidelines on oral dosing or edibles or topicals—none.“ This means that if you are taking cannabis in a non-smoking way and it is benefitting you more than a toxic pharmaceutical drug, then under the Hippocratic oath, a doctor has an obligation to write an authorization.

"This guidance is only in relation to smoked cannabis for chronic non-cancer pain, I think it is," said Leslie, "and they're looking at several conditions where you shouldn't get it and several where you should. I think fibromyalgia they say doesn't qualify, which is silly because it's one of our top issues here when it comes to women in our membership.

Insomnia is another prevalent condition that the guidelines don’t recognize as being helped by cannabis. “Bull----! Of course it is! I mean, we have members in their 80’s who use it for insomnia, so clearly it works,” says Leslie. “But this is the ignorance that lies out in the medical field because, in their busy day, he [a doctor] probably doesn't have time to keep track of this, he probably doesn't necessarily support whole plant medicine, he doesn't understand that, he's a pharmaceutical guy—classically trained, gets kickbacks from the pharmaceutical companies. Nice system we got here." Leslie says that doctors even don't know what they're allowed to do in many cases.

Putting a face to the issue – When does compassion show its face?

A woman from the community—who wished to remain anonymous as she doesn’t want her employer knowing her stance on the issue—said shecame in to sign the petition because she felt strongly that “this little girl [Kyla] should have her medicine, as should the other people that require it, and who does anybody think they are in telling somebody what medicine you should be taking and what medicine you shouldn't be taking, especially when the pharmaceutical drugs are so dangerous and have so many side effects.”

There is a difference between knowing the facts of the issue and putting a face to it. Leslie said, “When you have to look families in the eye and kids who need this medicine, or cancer patients, and you tell them oh no, they shouldn't be able to have it because there's no license for it yet—give me a break! Where do ignorance and cruelty collide, and when does compassion show its face? That's what we need to see in this community and we need to see it from our local leaders.”

Leslie is outspoken in his criticism of the federal government. "It's not about the patients, it's not about the access at this point. It's ideology running the country . . . You're seeing absolute non-participation at the federal level at the least; and, at the worst, heavy enforcement, when just south of the border business is good. It's sad.”

The anonymous woman added, "And the thing is too, if we still ran off of that [ideology] the world would still be flat, women couldn't vote, and a whole pile of other things.” She knows people with serious illnesses and takes issue with the way they currently have to get their medication, if they even feel they can without facing any judgement or stigma.

She explained that she knows one person who would benefit from medicinal marijuana, but they will not apply for a license out of fear it will make them a target and affected their spouse’s reputation. “They're not getting the medicine they should be because of that—because of the laws, and they don't want their spouse to have any [negative repercussions] . . . The biggest thing for me is the fact that people, government, and the odd complainant can tell people what kind of medicine to take. You look at the pharmaceutical companies and stuff—you look at any drug...and look at the side effects."

It is a fact, according to Leslie, that most prescription drugs have a multitude of potential negative side effects that many people cannot tolerate. "The loss of vision, the kidney damage—all those things are not reversible” He believes that pharmaceutical companies are in fear of the idea that a natural substance cannot be patented, but if given enough time, they could weak it to a point that it could be. “So right now, they can't make money and I think they're afraid of the good that it's doing with a lot of these people and they're going to see a loss in their sales . . . because a natural substance is looking after a lot of these things.”

Federal lobbying an uphill battle

When asked about the impact of this situation on local residents who rely on medical marijuana to treat symptoms of debilitating diseases like MS, seizure disorders and cancer, Harrison said, "It's one of those things that right now, it doesn't exist in law. Maybe in the future it will, but right now it doesn't and I think Jim Leslie in his comments to the Gazette was very factual."

He said he's aware of many cases where medicinal marijuana has been a benefit to people and that Leslie makes a good case for the products he's selling. "My mind's not closed to that at all...but unfortunately the regulations and laws are federal statutes; and until those are changed, they've got an uphill battle.

Harrison agrees that supporters should direct most of their energy towards lobbying at a federal level. "Precisely. That's where the law comes from—it's federal law." When asked if he thought the situation in Canada was similar to the U.S., where states are legalizing marijuana but the federal government is still not on board, Harrison said that U.S. laws are quite different in regard to who has jurisdiction over what, “whereas here in Canada it's pretty cut and dried—the federal laws, they have jurisdiction." He explained that criminal matters are considered federal, even though the province has the responsibility to run the justice system.

Harrison also pointed out that the Grand Forks detachment is a provincial one and not on contract with the municipality. Despite working hand-in-hand with municipal partners, they are not the Grand Forks police department. “We don't have a contract for policing with the City of Grand Forks or any other town in this area." Regardless of that, municipalities only have a say in local bylaws—Police are independent when it comes to enforcing provincial and federal laws.

"What has to be done has to be done at a federal level to change the laws," stated Harrison, "Because right now, under the old regulations, there was no provision for a middle-man or a retailer, so to speak. The licensed producer had to sell to the licensed possessor i.e. the person with a medical marijuana license. It had to be direct."

Even under the new regulations coming in there is no provision a middleman. "So that's where the legal problem is; and I guess the other part—as Jim Leslie points out in his letter quite clearly—is that no where is there an allowance to sell the extract products that his group produces."

As of April 1, 2014, the new Marihuana for Medical Purposes Regulations (MMPR) replaced the Marihuana Medical Access Regulations (MMAR) here in Canada. However, as a result of the Federal Court interim injunction and pending Supreme Court challenge, many individuals who were previously authorized to grow or possess marijuana under the MMAR, can continue to do so until the Court issues a final decision. A trial date has been set for February 23, 2015 in Vancouver with respect to the federal class action and caregivers.



“Not my highest priority”

Harrison has limited resources for policing this community and said these go primarily to emergency call response and crime reduction, “which is what I know the community wants to see . . . Quite frankly, this stuff is not my highest priority as far as law enforcement goes.” He is more concerned about the methamphetamine dealers, heroine dealers and prolific offenders that are causing crime in the community. “Even though this is illegal, I don't see medical marijuana sales as being a major crime causation type of factor in this community—I just don't see it."

Harrison also doesn't foresee crime increasing if marijuana is legalized, though keeping organized crime out of legalized sales would be concern. “Other than that...on the subject of marijuana, I don't see where we would see an increase in property crime or personal crimes, crimes of violence, that type of things, because it's not there now. Why would it be there in the future? I don't see a linkage."

On Jan 7, 2015 MotherJones.com published a news article entitled A Year After Legalizing Weed, Colorado Hasn’t Gone to Potthat looks at what has happened in the state of Colorado since prohibition has been lifted. Findings show that crime has not increased, other than citations for smoking pot in public and thefts of pot. And despite the easy access to marijuana, only about 9% of the population are regular users.

Harrison concurred that other places that have legalized marijuana, namely 23 US states plus DC, have not experienced a crime increase. The 2015 Status Report: Marijuana Legalization in Colorado After One Year of Retail Sales and Two Years of Decriminalization states that, “Since the first retail marijuana stores opened on January 1st, 2014, the state of Colorado has benefitted from a decrease in crime rates, a decrease in traffic fatalities, an increase in tax revenue and economic output from retail marijuana sales, and an increase in jobs.”

Sitting firmly on the fence

"I'll tell you where I sit on the matter," said Harrison. "I sit firmly on top of the fence!" He laughed. "That's where I'm at." He said he thinks there has to be a lot more work done in regard to handling the medical side of the issue. "If there is a medical benefit, then it should be treated like any other medicine—that's my personal opinion."

Harrison feels that anyone producing extracts and other products should have to go through the same type of procedures as other pharmaceutical companies, including clinical testing and federal government approval of the products before they are put on the market. "To just say that all this is safe and we have own lab and make this stuff—I'm not buying that one," he said, "because how do we know that's safe what you're selling. Your say-so is wonderful, but every other drug that is legally sold in this country—prescribed by physicians—goes through very rigorous testing and clinical testing, and then gets federal approval. So if you want to do it, then go that route."

Responding to Harrison’s comments, Leslie said, "That's a good example of a person in society—no matter what their occupation—that is not truly understanding this plant [and] its medicinal values.” He is not opposed to rigorous trials and research testing on the pharmaceutical side, but believes the two primary concerns about any medicine, safety and efficacy, has already been proven over the course of the last 5000 years.

“If the pharmaceutical companies want to isolate, synthesize, dial and create new little products, then let them take all the time in the world they want for that,” says Leslie. “But that is no reason to cause the rest of us to wait for that to be done. Marijuana is the most studied plant on the planet, with over 20,000 studies done to date, “and what we know is, when you use this whole plant compound, it works. It works extremely well, and if we've already met the two test of safety and efficacy, there needs to be a parallel system where this is available and I think both can exist."

For those who want to educate themselves about the medicinal benefits of cannabis, Leslie welcomes people to drop-in to the resource centre located at #4 1948 68th Ave. in Grand Forks. Hours are 10 a.m.– 6 p.m. Monday to Thursday. Fridays are by appointment only and they are closed on Saturdays. Leslie can be contacted by phone at 250-442-8248 or by email info@kootenaysmedicinetree.ca. Click here for their Facebook page and here for their website.