clare toeniskoetter Tom? thomas kaplan Yeah. clare toeniskoetter Hey. thomas kaplan Hey. clare toeniskoetter Sorry to keep you waiting. thomas kaplan That’s O.K. clare toeniskoetter Clare, nice to meet you. thomas kaplan Nice to meet you.

thomas kaplan

So on Monday, I left the New York Times office with “Daily” producer Clare Toeniskoetter.

clare toeniskoetter Can you tell me where we’re walking? thomas kaplan So we’re heading out of the West 4th Street station.

thomas kaplan

We took the subway down to Washington Square Park, in the heart of N.Y.U.‘s campus in Greenwich Village. It’s an iconic park in Manhattan filled with students, musicians, dogs — people streaming through at all hours of the day. It’s hosted political rallies over the years, hosted protests.

thomas kaplan I think this is where we’re supposed to go in.

thomas kaplan

And on Monday night —

speaker Press check-in is straight ahead. clare toeniskoetter Thank you. thomas kaplan Thank you. speaker You’re here for Elizabeth Warren! Come talk to me.

thomas kaplan

It was the site of a big rally for Elizabeth Warren, where she was going to give one of the biggest speeches of her presidential campaign so far.

speaker 1 Elizabeth Warren is here, folks! speaker 2 Whoo! speaker 1 Drinking our water! She may even have gone to the Starbucks that you attend. Elizabeth Warren is in New York City, folks. speaker 2 Whoo! speaker 1 She’s here!

michael barbaro

From The New York Times, I’m Michael Barbaro. This is “The Daily.” Today —

archived recording It’s hard to ignore the size of her crowd.

michael barbaro

— with crowds of 15,000 to 20,000 people —

archived recording Originally scheduled at the WaMu Theater, this town hall grew three times the anticipated size.

michael barbaro

— her campaign events frequently dwarf that of her Democratic rivals.

archived recording Today in Seattle, Elizabeth Warren saw one of the largest crowds of her campaign to date.

michael barbaro

Thomas Kaplan on the growing phenomenon that is an Elizabeth Warren rally. It’s Friday, September 20.

speaker Ask me about Elizabeth Warren! clare toeniskoetter Hey, Michael. michael barbaro Hey, Clare. So I just arrived in Washington Square Park. It’s about — speaker — here for Elizabeth Warren! michael barbaro — 5:45. Music is really loud. I entered to “9 to 5,” Dolly Parton. Now we’re transitioning. This event is interestingly constructed around this iconic New York City landmark of the Washington Square Park arch. And there’s an American flag in the middle of the arch, and these two vertical blue Warren signs on either side of the arch. And just a lot people milling around. Some marijuana smoke, not going to lie. speaker Who’s excited for Elizabeth Warren? Who’s excited?

michael barbaro

So Tom, the reason we were interested in going to Senator Warren’s rally is because, for weeks now, we’ve been hearing that her crowd sizes are getting bigger and bigger, and that there’s something unique about these events. And when we think back to 2016, we know that Donald Trump’s rallies were at the center of his appeal, and in the end, kind of at the center of his victory. And the question has always been, could a Democrat match that in 2020? And it’s starting to feel like, possibly. Elizabeth Warren’s rallies are beginning to accomplish something like that, and that you have to be there and attend it to kind of understand why.

thomas kaplan

Yeah, that’s right. I’ve been covering Elizabeth Warren’s campaign and going to her rallies for months. And over that time, they’ve grown bigger and bigger. But beyond the size, they’ve kind of taken on a life of their own. They have their own rituals, their own vocabulary. They have their own traditions. It’s almost as if they’ve become something beyond a political rally. They’ve really become a defining feature of her presidential campaign. ^[“THE STAR-SPANGLED BANNER”]^:

michael barbaro

O.K. So then the official program gets underway.

maria martinez [SPEAKING SPANISH]

michael barbaro

There are these introductory speeches by a pretty diverse group of women.

maria martinez Thank you all so, so much for being here tonight with us.

michael barbaro

And then there was this moment that kind of struck me, where it almost felt like the priest talking to everybody in a church, when —

maria martinez I’m going to give you all a minute. I really want you all to talk to each other, get to know each other, because we’re —

michael barbaro

— this person on stage asks everybody in the crowd to turn to the person next to them and introduce themselves, just like they do inside church. There was almost, like, an insistence on civility.

thomas kaplan

Yeah.

maria martinez All right, everyone. Let’s bring it back in.

thomas kaplan

And it’s something we’ve seen throughout her campaign. I mean, reporters always try to bait candidates into criticizing their rivals. And she is very careful to avoid that. And I think that kind of attitude, you can see at her events and in her crowds as well, is very much in keeping with the way she has approached her campaign.

speaker Without further ado, U.S. Senator Elizabeth Warren. [cheering]

michael barbaro

O.K. So after these introductions and that church moment, Warren takes the stage.

thomas kaplan

Yeah. And she comes on stage in this sort of triumphant moment to begin her speech.

michael barbaro Both hands are up in the air, like a full-body wave.

thomas kaplan

She’s very energetic. It’s a sort of very vigorous entrance.

michael barbaro Warren is on stage wearing a purple jacket — waving vigorously.

thomas kaplan

And then —

michael barbaro O.K., she’s about to start.

thomas kaplan

— she settles behind the podium to begin this speech.

elizabeth warren Hello, New York! [cheering]

thomas kaplan

And the first thing she does is make clear why she chose this location.

elizabeth warren I wanted to give this speech right here, and not because of the arch behind me or the president that this square is named for. Nope, we are not here today because of famous arches or famous men.

thomas kaplan

Then she says —

elizabeth warren We’re not here because of men at all. [cheering]

thomas kaplan

“We’re not here because of men at all.” Then she says, we’re here because of some hardworking women. And then she launches into this story of a horrible fire that took place near Washington Square Park, the story of the Triangle Shirtwaist Factory fire.

elizabeth warren Here’s what I want you to hear. It was March 25, 1911. It was a Saturday. And at about 4:45 in the afternoon, people walking through this very park looked up and saw black smoke billowing into the sky.

thomas kaplan

People were trapped. The fire department’s ladders couldn’t reach high enough up in the building.

elizabeth warren And as people on the ground stood in shocked silence, a woman jumped.

thomas kaplan

Ultimately, 146 people died, most of them women.

elizabeth warren Everyone knew about these problems. But the fat profits were making New York’s factory owners rich, and they had no plans to give that up.

thomas kaplan

And this became sort of a defining event that ended up leading to changes in workplace safety.

elizabeth warren That’s big, structural change. The tragic story of the Triangle Factory fire is a story about power.

thomas kaplan

She tells this story at the beginning of the rally to make the point that the way to fight corruption, the way to bring about big, structural change, as she calls it, is for people to band together. That’s the point.

michael barbaro

Right. So this serves as a prologue to the main event of her speech, which is all about corruption today.

thomas kaplan

Right.

elizabeth warren And when you see a government that works great for those with money and connections and doesn’t work for much of anyone else, that’s corruption, plain and simple. And we need to call it out for what it is.

thomas kaplan

And it’s this idea that really is at the center of her campaign, that corruption permeates the political system.

elizabeth warren Americans are killed by floods and fires in a rapidly warming planet. Why? Because huge fossil fuel corporations have bought off our government. [booing] elizabeth warren Americans are killed with unthinkable speed and efficiency in our streets, in our stores, in our schools. Why? Because the gun industry has bought off our government. [booing]

michael barbaro

Right. And listening to this, I felt like I finally understood the kind of unified theory of the Warren campaign, which is that no matter what issue you care about, it is connected to this baseline problem, in her telling, of corruption, of entrenched forces, of lobbyists, of the revolving door in Washington. And that’s her basic diagnosis of what ails the United States. And it’s what animates her campaign.

thomas kaplan

That’s exactly right. It all comes back to this sort of central broken system that, in her view, needs to be fixed.

michael barbaro

Right. I found myself thinking that the most successful candidates always do this. They create an umbrella message that is highly digestible and kind of punchy — you know, “Make America Great Again,” right? Except in her telling, it’s kind of “Make America Less Corrupt.” I guess the difference from Trump is what Warren says next.

thomas kaplan

Yeah. What she says next is —

elizabeth warren I got a plan for that.

thomas kaplan

— I have a plan for that. And she has lots of plans on all sorts of different subjects.

elizabeth warren Universal pre-K for every 3-year-old and 4-year-old in America.

thomas kaplan

She has a plan for universal child care —

elizabeth warren We can make technical school, community college and four-year college tuition-free for everyone who wants to get an education.

thomas kaplan

— and to make public college tuition-free. She has a plan on housing.

elizabeth warren And my plan respects the rights of Native Americans, to protect their lands and be good stewards of this earth.

thomas kaplan

The list goes on and on and on and on.

michael barbaro

I want to talk about how the crowd reacts to those plans, because I don’t think I’ve ever experienced so much rapturous applause to the word “plan.”

thomas kaplan

Yes. This is something that has become kind of a trademark of her campaign. She says, “I have a plan,” and people burst into cheers. I mean, people literally buy T-shirts that say, “Warren has a plan for that.”

michael barbaro

Right. I remember turning to you at a certain point and you accurately predicting that the crowd was about to break into one of the most unexpected chants I’ve ever heard at a campaign rally —

crowd (CHANTING) Two cents, two cents, two cents — elizabeth warren Yes!

michael barbaro

— which is, “Two cents, two cents, two cents.”

thomas kaplan

Yeah. So this was when Warren brought up her wealth tax, which is one of her best known policy proposal.

elizabeth warren Yes! That is a two-cent tax on fortunes over $50 million.

thomas kaplan

And it’s that plan that would make some of her other big ideas possible. The money from the wealth tax would pay for universal child care, it would pay to cancel student loan debt, and it would pay to eliminate tuition at public colleges.

elizabeth warren Just two cents. crowd (CHANTING) Two cents, two cents, two cents, two cents —

thomas kaplan

And it’s a pretty wild thing to see, to see a crowd chanting about a tax rate.

michael barbaro

Right. It’s kind of become, to go back to the Trump comparison, Warren’s “build the wall.”

thomas kaplan

Yes.

crowd (CHANTING) Warren, Warren, Warren, Warren, Warren, Warren —

michael barbaro

Near the end of the speech, Warren does something kind of interesting. She addresses the question of electability head-on.

elizabeth warren 2020 is about the direction our America goes.

thomas kaplan

She does. She says —

elizabeth warren There’s a lot at stake in this election.

thomas kaplan

— there’s a lot at stake in this election, and I know people are scared.

elizabeth warren But we can’t choose a candidate we don’t believe in just because we’re too scared to do anything else.

thomas kaplan

Don’t choose a candidate because you’re afraid. Don’t choose a candidate out of fear.

elizabeth warren And Democrats can’t win if we’re scared and looking backward.

michael barbaro

What’s that about?

thomas kaplan

So that is sort of a head-on attempt to address what is the big long-term challenge or uncertainty of her campaign, which is the idea of, can she beat Trump? And this is a way she attempts to make the case that, yes, you might have some hesitation, but don’t overthink it. Don’t make a calculation about who you think might be best on paper. Go with your heart. Go with the person you believe in. She, of course, says she’s not talking about Joe Biden. But I really don’t see another way to interpret that other than contrasting herself with what his candidacy represents.

michael barbaro

Right. Which, in her telling, is kind of safety and fear, which is pretty scathing in its own right.

thomas kaplan

That’s exactly right.

elizabeth warren I am not afraid. And you can’t be afraid, either. So if you’re ready to fight, then join me.

thomas kaplan

And with that message, that’s how she wraps up the speech.

[cheering]

michael barbaro

And that felt like the end of a two-and-a-half, three-hour event that helped me understand pretty well the dynamics of the Warren campaign —

speaker 1 Hello, everyone! speaker 2 Here are some instructions — speaker 1 Let’s give it up again for Elizabeth Warren!

michael barbaro

— and why this is becoming kind of a phenomenon. But it’s actually after the speech is over that this thing happens that feels like it really starts to unlock what is different about these events. And I’d heard about it a little bit from you, but it was a thing.

thomas kaplan

Right. The speech at the event, that’s really the first act in a two-act production.

michael barbaro

The second act being, of course, the selfie line.

thomas kaplan

That’s right.

michael barbaro

We’ll be right back.

speaker I know y’all are very excited for this part. Selfie line time. All right. So —

thomas kaplan

O.K. So on Monday night, the speech ends. And there are crowds of people who stay in the park — thousands of people. And they kind of make their way toward the stage. They want to stay for a selfie. And if you’re one of those people, you start looking around and thinking, wow. This is going to take a really long time.

michael barbaro This line is extremely long. I mean, there must be — there’s 1,000 people in this line still. She will have taken selfies with 2,500 people, right? clare toeniskoetter Yes. That’s insane. clare toeniskoetter (to group) How early do you guys have to be at school tomorrow? speaker 1 8 o’clock. speaker 2 8:00. speaker 3 8 o’clock. speaker 1 And we have so much homework, but it’s worth it, so — speaker 2 Yeah. speaker 3 I’m probably just going to not finish it and then email — speaker 2 Email my teachers. speaker 3 My teachers. speaker 2 Yeah. Because this is more important. speaker 1 Yeah. And —

thomas kaplan

And you see Elizabeth Warren. She kind of gets herself situated. Her staff gets organized.

clare toeniskoetter How long have you been waiting? speaker We’ve been waiting since this talking ended. We got right on line. But we’re worried that if we leave the line now, the next event will be even bigger, and then we won’t get our chance, right?

thomas kaplan

This selfie thing has been happening the whole campaign, going back to the start. It used to be small. But as Warren rallies have grown, it’s gotten way more complicated.

michael barbaro They’ve just made a public announcement that everybody will get a photo, which is sort of inconceivable.

thomas kaplan

So on Monday, they make this announcement, sort of like at an airport — like, pre-boarding.

speaker Please let families with children to the front of the line first. [SPEAKING SPANISH]

thomas kaplan

Children, families — they get to go up front so they don’t have to wait as long.

clare toeniskoetter How long are you willing to wait in this line? speaker 1 Oh, my goodness. speaker 2 Four hours. clare toeniskoetter From now? speaker 3 3:00 AM. speaker 4 Good thing you’ve got your own set of keys. [laughter] clare toeniskoetter How far do you guys live?

thomas kaplan

People start settling into the line. They start striking up conversations with people around them.

[cheering] michael barbaro That’s your attempt to keep people awake? speaker Yes, that’s how —

thomas kaplan

They’re chanting, playing games, getting to know each other.

speaker “High School Musical!” clare toeniskoetter Can you tell me what you guys were just doing? speaker 1 We were playing Time’s Up. Wait, is that what it’s called? Heads Up! speaker 2 Heads Up. speaker 3 She met with dictators in the primary!

thomas kaplan

And it seems like everyone is happy to wait.

michael barbaro So you’re the last man to get a selfie with Elizabeth Warren? speaker I’m holding down the end of the line. clare toeniskoetter Are people still joining? speaker Yeah. clare toeniskoetter Lots? speaker Yeah, absolutely. clare toeniskoetter I’m surprised. You just joined?

michael barbaro

Right. I remember talking to a guy and asking him, like, how long are you prepared to wait in this line? He was like, well, like, I kind of planned my night around it. My kids are out tonight. My spouse is, like, out with friends. And, like, I’m going to give it two and a half hours. I’m prepared to wait. At another point, there was a guy who suddenly had a pizza box under his arm. And it was like, did you order that pizza into the line?

thomas kaplan

That’s not something you see at most campaign events, that’s for sure. But people are committed and devoted and want to get their selfie.

speaker 1 I’m so excited! clare toeniskoetter How do you feel? speaker 2 I’m excited. speaker 3 Here you go. And then make sure you turn your flash off.

michael barbaro

And what is Warren saying to all these people, if she’s actually saying something to everybody?

speaker 1 We’re sisters. elizabeth warren Oh, sisters! speaker 2 Ready? 1, 2, 3. elizabeth warren That’s going to be our “strong women get it done” picture. speaker 1 We love you so much. speaker 3 So much.

thomas kaplan

So it depends. She’s giving a lot of hugs, shaking hands.

clare toeniskoetter What’d she tell you? irene She said that to win the election, she’d need help from girls named Irene. clare toeniskoetter And then what did you pinky promise? irene To help her.

thomas kaplan

When little girls come up to her, she does a pinky promise with them.

clare toeniskoetter And you get a good photo? irene Uh-huh. clare toeniskoetter Could you show me the photo before — I know you’re ready to go to sleep. speaker Let’s see. Did they get the pinky promise in this one? Is that the one you want to frame on your wall? irene Uh-huh. speaker We were talking about it, and she’s like, if I get a selfie, I want to frame it on my wall.

thomas kaplan

With some people, she has longer conversations. But with these giant crowds, these selfies have to go pretty quickly.

speaker Thank you so much for literally everything! elizabeth warren I’m so glad to see you. speaker Ready? 1, 2, 3. elizabeth warren We’re going to do it together. speaker Thank you so much.

thomas kaplan

Still, she tries to have a personal moment with each person, saying things like —

elizabeth warren Hi, I’m so glad you’re here.

thomas kaplan

— I’m glad you’re here —

speaker Thank you. elizabeth warren Thanks for being a part of this. speaker Ready? 1, 2, 3.

thomas kaplan

— stay in this fight —

speaker I have to be at work at 6:00 in the morning, but I’m here. elizabeth warren Alrighty.

thomas kaplan

— good to see you.

elizabeth warren Stay strong. speaker Thank you so much. elizabeth warren Glad you’re here. All right.

thomas kaplan

And it goes on and on and on and on.

elizabeth warren All right. speaker Thank you. elizabeth warren Glad you’re here. speaker 1 Keep it up. You’re amazing. speaker 2 Ready? 1, 2, 3. elizabeth warren Stay in this fight. We do it together. speaker 1 Good to see you. My friends and I are quitting our jobs and joining your campaign. speaker 2 [LAUGHS] speaker 3 Thank you so much. speaker 4 Madam President, it’s an honor. elizabeth warren Oh! I love hearing it. speaker 1 Ready? 1, 2, 3. speaker 2 Thank you.

thomas kaplan

She’s not taking a break. At one point, she’s handed a coconut water. She downs it —

elizabeth warren Stay hydrated. speaker 1 That’s it. speaker 2 The teachers love you.

thomas kaplan

And just keeps smiling, shaking hands, and taking pictures.

speaker 1 Thank you. speaker 2 Ready? 1, 2, 3. speaker 3 Thank you so much. speaker 4 Thank you. Working families! All right! [LAUGHS] elizabeth warren Yes! speaker 1, 2, 3. elizabeth warren Working families rock! speaker 1 Thank you, thank you. speaker 2 Thank you. Thank you.

michael barbaro

Tom, help me understand exactly what’s motivating everybody here.

thomas kaplan

So I think Elizabeth Warren connects with a lot of people, inspires a lot of voters, and they want this personal interaction with her. And they’re willing to wait for it.

speaker Oh! Oh, my gosh!

thomas kaplan

I talked to one woman a few months ago after she met Warren in the selfie line. She told me that brief interaction was one of the highlights of her life.

speaker It was just an amazing feeling. I just started jumping like a little kid. Seriously, I love her. I’m excited. clare toeniskoetter I saw you the moment you saw her. speaker And she said, we’re going to make it. We’re going to make it together. And then I —

thomas kaplan

And I think people feel that they’re part of a movement, they’re part of something bigger than just going to a political event, cheering for a candidate. And by waiting in the selfie line, by getting that picture, by having that brief interaction, they are sort of claiming their place in that bigger movement. And it means a lot to people.

clare toeniskoetter And what are you going to do with your photo? speaker I am going to put it on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram.

thomas kaplan

And for the Warren campaign, this is strategic. This is something that is extraordinarily useful — to have all these people who get their picture taken with Elizabeth Warren, and then go post it on Facebook, post it on Instagram —

michael barbaro

Right.

clare toeniskoetter And what do you hope happens after you share it? speaker Why share it? Because we need to know that she will be the president.

thomas kaplan

— and spread the word about her campaign. And that’s super valuable for a campaign to have that kind of organic advertising among voters. And it’s something they’ve really kind of leaned into as a point of distinction with other candidates. So the argument goes, the typical presidential candidate — they give their speech. They leave. They go to some closed-door, ritzy fundraiser with a bunch of rich people.

michael barbaro

Mm-hmm.

thomas kaplan

Instead, she stays at her events. She meets everyone who wants to stay and meet her, and takes pictures with them. And that contrast between what you might expect from a candidate and what you see with Warren, I think, is something the campaign has really embraced.

michael barbaro

So it feels like the campaign has come to understand that the selfie line may be just as important as anything else that happens in the rally, and that you can see that in the way that they’re approaching this.

thomas kaplan

Definitely. Time is a precious commodity for a presidential candidate, and Warren is spending an awful lot of time doing this.

[music]

michael barbaro Uh-oh, street cleaners. clare toeniskoetter Oh, man. Your laptop’s away. Are you done done? thomas kaplan I’m sort of done. I’m probably going to do one more layer of polishing later. But I’m almost out of battery, and — clare toeniskoetter Are you really going to stay? thomas kaplan I think I’m going to stay till the end. I am definitely getting slightly softer in my resolve. michael barbaro O.K. So it’s, like, 11:20. I’m tired. I’m going to go home, Tom. I’ll see you at the next Warren rally. thomas kaplan Sounds great. Get some sleep. [chanting]

thomas kaplan

So in the end, to get everyone their selfie, it took almost four hours.

speaker Let’s get excited about this. [chanting]

michael barbaro

As I left, I was starting to think that this is the thing that people talk about when they talk about the Elizabeth Warren rally as a phenomenon, and that it begins to help explain her entire candidacy.

thomas kaplan

Yeah. Now, looking at campaigns in the past, getting big crowds and having these big, exciting events doesn’t necessarily translate into winning in Iowa, or New Hampshire —

michael barbaro

Mm-hmm.

thomas kaplan

— or winning at all. You can look back at Howard Dean. You can look back at Bernie Sanders in 2016.

michael barbaro

Right, huge crowds.

thomas kaplan

Right. And having a big crowd — who knows what that translates to months from now when people start to vote. And a big crowd in New York, by the way, what that means in Iowa, people can speculate about that. But it certainly is distinctive, what she’s doing. And if she goes on to become the Democratic nominee, it will have had a lot to do with how she’s approached these rallies.

michael barbaro

Tom, thank you very much.

thomas kaplan

Thank you.

michael barbaro

After Warren’s rally in Washington Square Park, President Trump challenged her campaign’s estimated crowd size of 20,000 people without citing evidence and said that, quote, “anybody” could attract a major crowd in New York City. We’ll be right back. Here’s what else you need to know today. An unusual complaint from a whistle-blower inside the intelligence community has triggered a new standoff between the White House and congressional Democrats. The complaint apparently involves a promise made by President Trump during a conversation with an unidentified foreign leader, which was deemed alarming enough by the inspector general for the intelligence community to notify Congress of the complaint’s existence. But the acting director of national intelligence, Joseph Maguire, a Trump appointee, has refused to turn the whistle-blower’s report over to Congress. That prompted the chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, Adam Schiff, to subpoena Maguire to appear before his committee to explain his actions. And —

archived recording So exactly how many times have you darkened your skin with makeup in an act that you have yourself described as racist? archived recording (justin trudeau) I shared the moments that I recollected. But I recognize that it is something absolutely unacceptable to do. And I appreciate calling it makeup, but it was blackface. And that is just not right.

michael barbaro

On Thursday, Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau acknowledged multiple occasions on which he dressed in brownface and blackface, a racist caricature that could now endanger his re-election campaign.

archived recording (justin trudeau) It is something that people who live with the kind of discrimination that far too many people do because of the color of their skin, or their history, or their origins, or their language, or their religion face on a regular basis. And I didn’t see that from the layers of privilege that I have. And for that, I am deeply sorry, and I apologize.

michael barbaro