quisp65

join:2003-05-03

San Diego, CA ·webpass.net

·Charter

2 edits quisp65 Member The FCC is working outside of it boundaries The FCC is dealing with laws that deal with state and local finances which they don't have any control over. If the FCC wants to dictate how the actual internet is run then fine, but it can't go outside of areas of communication and make decisions on those issues, just because it affects the internet.



Karl Bode

News Guy

join:2000-03-02 5 recommendations Karl Bode News Guy Re: The FCC is working outside of it boundaries quote: Article I, section 8 of the Constitution gives Congress the power to regulate interstate commerce.



•Internet access unquestionably involves interstate communications, and thus interstate commerce. Broadband subscribers pay for the right to go to any lawful destination on the Internet, wherever located.



•Congress has given the Federal Communications Commission the authority to regulate interstate communications. Indeed, section 1 of the Communications Act of 1934, as amended (Act), specifically gives the Commission jurisdiction over "interstate and foreign commerce in communication by wire and radio."



•The Commission has previously exercised its authority to preempt state laws that conflict with federal regulation of interstate commerce, for example with respect to state regulation of VoIP, the deployment of wireless facilities, and its order prohibiting local franchising authorities from unreasonably refusing to grant competitive cable franchises. These preemption decisions all further competition.



• Finally, section 706 of the 1996 Act directs the Commission to take action to remove barriers to broadband investment, deployment and competition. There is no question that provisions of the state laws in question do limit broadband deployment -- they expressly prohibit Wilson and Chattanooga from providing broadband services to more people in more places, even places where there is no broadband currently available. I imagine there will be a lawsuit from this from ISPs, so we'll get to see what the courts think. Here's where they claim you're wrong in the order:I imagine there will be a lawsuit from this from ISPs, so we'll get to see what the courts think.

96964493 (banned)

join:2015-01-09

USA 96964493 (banned) Member Re: The FCC is working outside of it boundaries If they wish to expand out side of their actual coverage area then they need to stop funding the fiber build with funds coming from those power customers and give back the money they used to create the network. They took the money to build a smart grid, not to become an FTTH provider.



They also at that point should be required to spin off every ISP from the Munis and from the tax payers. Let them try and operate on only what they are able to obtain in private funding from shareholders and from what they collect in $$$ from customers. If they were truly making money, it would show at that point.



pjcamp

@choopa.net 1 recommendation pjcamp Anon Re: The FCC is working outside of it boundaries So what about AT&T? They spent over a century expanding their network as a public monopoly.



Flyonthewall

@teksavvy.com Flyonthewall to 96964493

Anon to 96964493

More rhetoric. Where is it written that a locally run ISP has to make profit? It only has to provide services. People pay taxes, they pay for the service, like they would their water or power as you mentioned. Nothing says they have to pay the board members 5 million a year for wearing a suit.



KrK

Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy

Premium Member

join:2000-01-17

Tulsa, OK KrK to 96964493

Premium Member to 96964493

More like every ISP should be required to spin off all "over the top" services from the base internet access pipe, and allow all who are interested to provide services over the top of the infrastructure for the same rate.



keithps

Premium Member

join:2002-06-26

Soddy Daisy, TN keithps to 96964493

Premium Member to 96964493

They did use the money to build a smart grid. Your argument is like saying AT&T shouldn't be allowed to provide DSL because they built the phone lines for phone calls, not internet.



n2jtx

join:2001-01-13

Glen Head, NY n2jtx to Karl Bode

Member to Karl Bode

said by Karl Bode: Here's where they claim you're wrong in the order: quote: Article I, section 8 of the Constitution gives Congress the power to regulate interstate commerce.



•Congress has given the Federal Communications Commission the authority to regulate interstate communications. Indeed, section 1 of the Communications Act of 1934, as amended (Act), specifically gives the Commission jurisdiction over "interstate and foreign commerce in communication by wire and radio." This has already been expanded include intrastate communications as well. Try and set up a 10 watt FM radio station that does not reach outside the borders of your state. You will still get a knock on the door from FCC for unlicensed operation of a transmitter. There were folks who tried this in Vermont and got smacked down.

quisp65

join:2003-05-03

San Diego, CA ·webpass.net

·Charter

quisp65 to Karl Bode

Member to Karl Bode

I would think there would be limits to this though and that a state would be well within it's rights in determining it's utility boundaries. Also I would argue that having utility rules in place to protect from cost overruns can protect municipal broadband and it's users. I get that the ISPs have lobbied for such laws, but that doesn't mean that's the only reason for the law. I wouldn't want my electric company providing service outside of it's boundaries. I would want those users to get their electric company to provide them the same service as mine has.



Municipal broadband can make sense if the electric company is providing service to the area it serves. It starts to go down hill in value if it starts expanding outside of it's boundaries.

davidhoffman

Premium Member

join:2009-11-19

Warner Robins, GA davidhoffman Premium Member Re: The FCC is working outside of it boundaries EPB is being asked to expand partially because it already has gone through all the mistakes and errors of being new to the ISP world. The other TN municipalities may figure it makes more long term economic sense to work with an established electric utility that also functions as an ISP. It is possible that they figure they can get the FTTH network they want faster by going to EPB than by starting from scratch.

dot854jc

join:2004-06-28

Cleveland, TN ·AT&T U-Verse

dot854jc Member Re: The FCC is working outside of it boundaries said by davidhoffman: EPB is being asked to expand partially because it already has gone through all the mistakes and errors of being new to the ISP world. The other TN municipalities may figure it makes more long term economic sense to work with an established electric utility that also functions as an ISP. It is possible that they figure they can get the FTTH network they want faster by going to EPB than by starting from scratch. I believe this is exactly the case with Cleveland Utilities and VEC (both power companies in Bradley County). They have requested that EPB operate as an ISP in their area. Much of the expense is in the headend which EPB already has. Why build another when you can run it all through one?

desarollo

join:2011-10-01

Monroe, MI 2 recommendations desarollo to quisp65

Member to quisp65

said by quisp65: The FCC is dealing with laws that affect state and local finances which they don't have any control over.



It is ironic that the large corporate interests that these local laws protect benefit companies that have used FCC preemption to their advantage. I can think of AT&T cell sites that were targeted as eyesores in a rather liberal city in Michigan, and AT&T quickly cried to the FCC for help.



I simply can't understand why state legislators fail to see the impropriety of these laws preventing municipal broadband. If a city or township wants to sell bonds to finance these projects, so be it. No one seems to have a problem with them selling bonds for other infrastructure projects. The FCC has a long history of knocking down state and local laws that overstep into FCC jurisdiction. State and municipal laws and zoning codes on towers, transmission, cable egress and right of way come to mind as cases that the FCC has prevailed in preemption hearings. This will be another one.It is ironic that the large corporate interests that these local laws protect benefit companies that have used FCC preemption to their advantage. I can think of AT&T cell sites that were targeted as eyesores in a rather liberal city in Michigan, and AT&T quickly cried to the FCC for help.I simply can't understand why state legislators fail to see the impropriety of these laws preventing municipal broadband. If a city or township wants to sell bonds to finance these projects, so be it. No one seems to have a problem with them selling bonds for other infrastructure projects.



Karl Bode

News Guy

join:2000-03-02 5 recommendations Karl Bode News Guy Re: The FCC is working outside of it boundaries said by desarollo: I simply can't understand why state legislators fail to see the impropriety of these laws preventing municipal broadband. If you think the Federal level is bad, State legislatures are absolutely disgusting when it comes to pay to play politics. AT&T lobbyists literally dominate so many of the states where these laws were passed, and it's easy to pass it off to constituents as phony interest in their financial welfare (we'll protect you from yourself by passing a law AT&T told us to).

elefante72

join:2010-12-03

East Amherst, NY elefante72 Member Re: The FCC is working outside of it boundaries I wish these munis well, however they are at a complete disadvantage (the major operators seem to disagree), because their equipment cost will be higher, and to some extent transit (that cost goes down all the time), and certainly on the cable packages (if the offer). Maybe they can counter that w/ deals w/ sat operators.



I'm watching the TPIA in Canada operate and how the ILECs are trying to raise rate structures and keep the "fastest" connections to themselves via pricing, but one of them (Start) is beginning to optimize peering to a majority of their use cases, and know in many cases will have more optimal routing to networks than say the ILEC Rogers.



So now there is lots of room for competition, however as seen in Canada, a last mile utility isn't all roses when the governement entity doesn't act fast enough on rate structures.



That is my fear w/ these orders. The government is now involved, so let the red tape, increased cost, and delays begin.

ke4pym

Premium Member

join:2004-07-24

Charlotte, NC 1 edit 1 recommendation ke4pym Premium Member Re: The FCC is working outside of it boundaries

»www.greenlightnc.com/packages/



The top of the line package runs $160/mo for everything (TV/Phone/Internet/movie channels) and a 40Meg symmetrical connection. This does not appear to be a promotional rate.



Now, go hit up TWC's page and configure it for the same package.



I told the page to use TWC's office Address:



2843 Raleigh Rd Pkwy W - Wilson NC 27893. Said service wasn't available. Heh.



I configured it with phone/internet/tv, picked the $89 package (for 12 months) and added the movie channels. That came up to nearly $130. For the first 12 months. No telling what that goes to after 12 months. And this is for a 50/5 connection.



Want a stand-alone 1Gbps connection from Greenlight? That'll be $104.95/mo please.



Meanwhile in Salisbury, NC, Fibrant is looking to expand into a nearby town (thanks to the FCC):

»www.salisburypost.com/20 ··· to-town/



Fibrant's site isn't quite as easy to tell what the prices are. But they offer a symmetrical 50 meg connection for $45 a month. TWC, in this area, non promotional price charges $99 for 50/5. Check out Greenlight's package page:The top of the line package runs $160/mo for everything (TV/Phone/Internet/movie channels) and a 40Meg symmetrical connection. This does not appear to be a promotional rate.Now, go hit up TWC's page and configure it for the same package.I told the page to use TWC's office Address:2843 Raleigh Rd Pkwy W - Wilson NC 27893. Said service wasn't available. Heh.I configured it with phone/internet/tv, picked the $89 package (for 12 months) and added the movie channels. That came up to nearly $130. For the first 12 months. No telling what that goes to after 12 months. And this is for a 50/5 connection.Want a stand-alone 1Gbps connection from Greenlight? That'll be $104.95/mo please.Meanwhile in Salisbury, NC, Fibrant is looking to expand into a nearby town (thanks to the FCC):Fibrant's site isn't quite as easy to tell what the prices are. But they offer a symmetrical 50 meg connection for $45 a month. TWC, in this area, non promotional price charges $99 for 50/5.

ncbill

Premium Member

join:2007-01-23

Winston Salem, NC 1 recommendation ncbill Premium Member Re: The FCC is working outside of it boundaries That TWC $89 promo increases $20 for months 13-24 (I just signed up for it).



And you bring up another point - it's not like the municipality has to build it themselves, they can invite another private company to build-out a fiber network, the municipality seizing whatever rights-of-way are needed to do so via eminent domain.



KrK

Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy

Premium Member

join:2000-01-17

Tulsa, OK KrK to Karl Bode

Premium Member to Karl Bode

When at&t was SBC they basically completely bought Oklahoma laws. They are pretty much exempt from, well, everything. Oklahoma has a long history of being a Corporate owned state in regards to laws, especially when it comes to energy giants.

Chubbysumo

join:2009-12-01

Duluth, MN Chubbysumo to quisp65

Member to quisp65

either you are a shill, or really just that uninformed...

mikesco8

join:2006-02-17

Southwick, MA mikesco8 Member Re: The FCC is working outside of it boundaries I think the Shill comment is a little out of line on this topic. I hope the FCC does have authority on this one, but whenever the feds try to overturn a state law, there is going to be dialogue, and court cases, and is going to be controversial, as it should.

96964493 (banned)

join:2015-01-09

USA 96964493 (banned) Member Re: The FCC is working outside of it boundaries And when the states win they should make the FCC pay for legal costs.

quisp65

join:2003-05-03

San Diego, CA ·webpass.net

·Charter

1 edit quisp65 to mikesco8

Member to mikesco8

yea... some would argue that finance protections actually help municipal broadband by placing protections that can keep them from losing money. With Chattanooga's case their electric company offers FTTH service for areas they serve, but now there is a push to expand beyond their foot print which could affect their finances. I can see the reasoning in having an electric company provide FTTH for the area it serves, but for areas outside of it? I think they run the risk of cost over runs and the state laws are there to prevent this utility from wasting consumers money. I think the courts will not allow the FCC to do this. It is within state rights to regulate their electric utilities, and not the FCC. The FCC can't demand that a electric utility regulated by the state has to serve outside of it's boundaries.

sonicmerlin

join:2009-05-24

Cleveland, OH sonicmerlin Member Re: The FCC is working outside of it boundaries said by quisp65: yea... some would argue that finance protections actually help municipal broadband by placing protections that can keep them from losing money. With Chattanooga's case their electric company offers FTTH service for areas they serve, but now there is a push to expand beyond their foot print which could affect their finances. I can see the reasoning in having an electric company provide FTTH for the area it serves, but for areas outside of it? I think they run the risk of cost over runs and the state laws are there to prevent this utility from wasting consumers money. I think the courts will not allow the FCC to do this. It is within state rights to regulate their electric utilities, and not the FCC. The FCC can't demand that a electric utility regulated by the state has to serve outside of it's boundaries. Think of the children!



fg8578

join:2009-04-26

San Antonio, TX fg8578 Member Re: The FCC is working outside of it boundaries said by sonicmerlin: Think of the children! Think of the taxpayers!



KrK

Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy

Premium Member

join:2000-01-17

Tulsa, OK KrK Premium Member Re: The FCC is working outside of it boundaries Think of the consumers!



batterup

I Can Not Tell A Lie.

Premium Member

join:2003-02-06

Netcong, NJ batterup Premium Member Re: The FCC is working outside of it boundaries said by KrK: Think of the consumers!





You think of only the affluent 1% of the consumers. Who speaks for the great unwashed?



KrK

Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy

Premium Member

join:2000-01-17

Tulsa, OK KrK Premium Member Re: The FCC is working outside of it boundaries Uh, no.



batterup

I Can Not Tell A Lie.

Premium Member

join:2003-02-06

Netcong, NJ batterup Premium Member Re: The FCC is working outside of it boundaries said by KrK: Uh, no. Nether does the FCC apparently. When Verizon wanted to deploy FiOS it was written into the law they had to deploy it to the great unwashed first then the 1% later. Please think of the poor children. Don't they deserve an equal chance?

davidhoffman

Premium Member

join:2009-11-19

Warner Robins, GA 1 recommendation davidhoffman Premium Member Re: The FCC is working outside of it boundaries I thought the request was for simultaneous deployments in several areas. Some were high level disposable income, some were mid level, and some were low level. The other thing was to deploy to all areas zoned as business, commercial, or industrial.



KrK

Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy

Premium Member

join:2000-01-17

Tulsa, OK Netgear WNDR3700v2

Zoom 5341J

KrK to batterup

Premium Member to batterup

Yeah, that must of been it. They pulled everybody's tax return and then went around starting from the bottom income and randomly worked their way to the top, obviously. Sheesh. On some planet, that talking point is impressive..... but this is Earth.



batterup

I Can Not Tell A Lie.

Premium Member

join:2003-02-06

Netcong, NJ batterup Premium Member Re: The FCC is working outside of it boundaries said by KrK: Yeah, that must of been it. They pulled everybody's tax return and then went around starting from the bottom income and randomly worked their way to the top, obviously. Sheesh. On some planet, that talking point is impressive..... but this is Earth. I have no idea what you are talking about. You say you are for the little guy yet you support the 1% building fiber networks only for the 1%.



KrK

Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy

Premium Member

join:2000-01-17

Tulsa, OK KrK Premium Member Re: The FCC is working outside of it boundaries You have no idea about what you're talking about, apparently... except trying to claim others are for what YOU say they are. Wrong on both counts.



notashill

@google.com notashill to mikesco8

Anon to mikesco8

I agree

96964493 (banned)

join:2015-01-09

USA 96964493 (banned) to quisp65

Member to quisp65

Totally agree. They have no legal power to change state laws

jmcging

join:2005-08-04

Columbia, MD 1 recommendation jmcging to quisp65

Member to quisp65





»www.fcc.gov/guides/over- ··· ces-rule Well, it's been a while but didn't the FCC specifically invalidate not just state laws but even things like home owners associations from taking actions that would have the effect of not allowing homeowners reasonable access to put up satellite dishes? I think that horse left teh barn a while back.



Yucca Servic

join:2012-11-27

Rio Rancho, NM 1 recommendation Yucca Servic Member Fight fight fight Where is it going to end. It comes down to do you want a monopoly or do you want a competitive choice? States cities towns are preventing this from happening and has got to stop.



batterup

I Can Not Tell A Lie.

Premium Member

join:2003-02-06

Netcong, NJ batterup Premium Member Will the FCC stop cherry picking? Santa Monica has FiOS and CATV yet they build a municipal fiber network. This network built with taxpayer money is only for big business, skim the cream and leave Verizon with the rancid remainder.



Oh never mind, Verizon has left the building.

Kearnstd

Space Elf

Premium Member

join:2002-01-22

Mullica Hill, NJ Kearnstd Premium Member I bet this is why Google gets sweetheart deals If you think about it, If a state says you cannot build a muni network the law cannot prevent the city from offering Google access to the ROWs for an absolute song.

davidhoffman

Premium Member

join:2009-11-19

Warner Robins, GA davidhoffman Premium Member FCC removing some legal barriers to municipal FTTH builds. The incumbent private ISPs and the politicians they have been successful at bribing are finally being slightly restricted in their actions concerning municipal FTTH construction. As Karl Bode noted, these FCC actions may input some needed competition into the last mile ISP market. It has been stated before that with adequate last mile competition the issue of network neutrality might have been worked out to the internet connection subscriber's advantage in a truly competitive last mile marketplace.

dot854jc

join:2004-06-28

Cleveland, TN ·AT&T U-Verse

dot854jc Member This needs to happen I live and work in Bradley County, TN and know personally several people who don't have any internet options and many of the ones who do have internet only have one option for a broadband service provider. Thousands of people in our county cannot obtain internet access because the private companies don't want to spend the money to provide the service necessary. They insist on us being dead last when it comes to upgrades and deployments (check the Charter forum you will notice we were one of the last areas in the country to get 60mbps). When we live in time where AT&T and Charter have both admitted they are decreasing their expenses in broadband expansion. The choices they are making leave us no choice but to provide services for ourselves. Currently I live within 1/4 mile of the city limits and AT&T doesn't provide broadband services to our area. Charter is my only monopolistic choice and I consider myself lucky to have that. I work with folks who's jobs are at risk because they don't have broadband services to work on call schedules required by their work and field in which they work in. One employee drives 30+ minutes to work because wireless internet has a high latency and will not keep a consistent VPN connection. Competition (when it can be had) also will expand future opportunities with the competitors. Example: Kansas City, Austin, and soon to be Chattanooga (just watch and see) will have AT&T GigaPower fiber optic internet because they have to spend the money on infrastructure to compete. AT&T in the majority of our county cannot provide broadband speeds as set by the FCC.

StLCardsFan

join:2011-06-06

Lafayette, LA StLCardsFan Member Re: This needs to happen while its no ones fault you live outside city limits and have been passed over with upgrades - there is no logical reason why communities shouldn't be able to expand service to whomever or wherever they want. now - expecting 1/4 mile of fiber to one house to be subsidized by the greater mass may be a bit extravagant.

dot854jc

join:2004-06-28

Cleveland, TN ·AT&T U-Verse

dot854jc Member Re: This needs to happen I have 1 internet option and AT&T is available further out in the county. AT&T literally cherry picks whom they believe will be profitable areas. My house and many of my neighbors have nice homes and have value but many houses I pass to get home are lower income. I live on the corner where across the street can get service from AT&T but not me. I have friends and neighbors who live further out than my who have internet options.