SCHELL. The fact that now you don't have to get permission from others to do what you want must make a great difference, and that freedom derives in no small measure from the vast cushion you've got around you to protect yourself.

LUCAS. Sure, the urge toward independence grows out of the frustration that any artist -- a writer, a painter, a sculptor -- faces, which is: you want to get into a position where people aren't distorting or destroying your vision. When you get into opera, architecture or film, you're dealing in art forms that are so large and require so many resources that you can't help but be in a more communal kind of situation. And to dominate such a situation with your vision is much, much harder. Knowing how to get people to cooperate and to build a pyramid the way you want the pyramid built is a much larger social endeavor than, say, being a Picasso and painting in your studio.

I'm not a big proponent of art with a capital A. To me art is just a way of communicating. Once you say, ''I hope somebody likes my painting,'' then you're going to paint for somebody. No matter how esoteric an artist you are, you're still playing for an audience. If you only play to 10 people, then, maybe you're a high artist [laughs].

SCHELL. There also is the question of when the artist, writer or filmmaker has to become more than just artist, and has to become a spokesman on the ''Today Show.'' What I'm driving at here is the role of a public life for an artist.

LUCAS. Well, it's no secret that I'm not fond of public life. But, of course, I want people to like what I do. Everybody wants to be accepted, at least by somebody. But we live in a world now where you're forced to become part of this larger corporate entity called the media, which is devouring as much information as it possibly can get in order to keep itself going. Going on the media becomes a kind of social duty. Sure, some people use it because they want to promote their products or whatever. And in certain cases when I make a movie, I do like to promote my product. You get people to invest money in what you're doing, and then you feel responsible to do all you can to help them get their money back. Since I'm doing the films myself, I don't have quite that obligation. I'd just as soon let my own films die than have to go out and sell them on a circuit. And I do as little as I have to, to feel responsible.

So why am I doing publicity? I'm doing it because there's a social obligation. I'm not doing it for me. I'm doing it for the media. And the media would feel cheated if I didn't do it. It would feel that I was shunning them, or abusing them in some way. I don't have to make money off this. It'll do fine. But the media has to make money. And they feel I owe it to them to sell their magazines and sell their TV programs as part of society. I do feel part of the society, so I have come to the conclusion that there is a certain obligation that you have as part of the social structure.