READER COMMENTS ON

"New Hampshire Town Citizens Prohibit Concealed Vote Counting by Computers or Any Other Method"

(38 Responses so far...)





COMMENT #1 [Permalink]

... blubonnet said on 3/14/2010 @ 12:25 pm PT...





The threat of votes being tampered with is high now, because several towns were voting on revisiting the events of 9-11-01, a new investigation. We can be sure all maneuvers to prevent that from happening will be deployed.

COMMENT #2 [Permalink]

... Kmac said on 3/14/2010 @ 1:12 pm PT...





This article only brings to mind that the 2004 election was won by fraudulent voting tabulations in Ohio and gave Bush an additional 4 years to totally drive our nation into unbelievable debt.

The Repubs are going to try anything they can think of to win back seats and control Congress in 2010 ... safety devices to eliminate this possiblity need to be in place nationally before that date!

COMMENT #3 [Permalink]

... Lora said on 3/14/2010 @ 1:31 pm PT...





This is what I like about NH. "Live free or die!" We have community volunteers counting our ballots in full public view and it doesn't cost the town a dime. One objection to hand-counting that I've read has been the prohibitive cost. Glad to hear that one debunked!

COMMENT #4 [Permalink]

... Lora said on 3/14/2010 @ 1:35 pm PT...





Sorry --- I don't remember hitting "bold." That could come off if you get the chance.

COMMENT #5 [Permalink]

... zapkitty said on 3/14/2010 @ 2:10 pm PT...





Actual people counting actual ballots in a town named Lyndeborough ... and the captcha was a numerical palindrome...

COMMENT #6 [Permalink]

... Ancient said on 3/14/2010 @ 2:35 pm PT...





Hey ya Kmac #2, I was just thinking to myself the other day, if it wasn't for scalia interfering in a state's federal election, we never would of had to suffer the damage or disgrace heaped upon this nation by idiotboy and dickless. I have a dream...scalia's impeachment. And let's not forget their latest act of radical judicial activism, corporate funded elections. Don't ya just love those federalist society folks! http://www.rightwingwatc...ntent/federalist-society I swiped the link from a commenter over at Emptywheel. An oh yeah, Adam Fullford was asking about frey's boss cooley being diebold's bitch...well guess what he's a federalist society member too. Scroll down to The Merits of Continued Drug Prohibition, http://losangelesfedsoc.org/past_events

COMMENT #7 [Permalink]

... BlueHawk said on 3/14/2010 @ 2:44 pm PT...





Topically related news... Virginia Thomas the wife of Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas has launched a Tea Party group... Any illusions we had of judicial impartiality is now blown to hell. Story link here

COMMENT #8 [Permalink]

... Ernest A. Canning said on 3/14/2010 @ 2:45 pm PT...





Thank you, Nancy Tobi, for sharing this marvelous glance at what real democracy looks like. While there appears to be no reason why every precinct in the nation could not emulate the citizens of Lyndeborough and individually count paper ballots, I'm sure that the representatives of the e-voting cartel would raise their usual canard about efficiency. I'm wondering if you could share with us a couple of details that were left out of the video and piece, to wit: The number of ballots counted in Lyndeborough on Election Night 2004; the time it took to complete the count.

COMMENT #9 [Permalink]

... Ernest A. Canning said on 3/14/2010 @ 2:49 pm PT...





Not to nit-pick, Ancient, but the link you provided reflects that LA DA Steve Cooley was an invited speaker at a Federalist Society function. That does not necessarily mean that he is a "member."

COMMENT #10 [Permalink]

... Ancient said on 3/14/2010 @ 3:18 pm PT...





You're right Ernest,I guess that's why your the lawyer and not me, huh? I've been trying to find actual member list and the half empty web page is all I've come up with so far.

COMMENT #11 [Permalink]

... Big Dan said on 3/14/2010 @ 8:13 pm PT...





This is a huge story, it could be the start of something nationwide. And don't mess with that guy with the white beard, holy shit!!! Can you interview this dude? I think he's my hero!!!

COMMENT #12 [Permalink]

... Big Dan said on 3/14/2010 @ 8:29 pm PT...





And let's see who comes along and is against this vote transparency to the citizens! They may as well just say: "I AM THE VOTE HACKER".

COMMENT #13 [Permalink]

... Jeannie Dean said on 3/14/2010 @ 9:10 pm PT...





O! Lyndeborough, Lyndeborogh! How your civic pride and loyal devotion to the body politic move me. "Your neighbor's votes are a precious thing in this democracy..." makes me cry for what the rest of us have lost forever, perhaps deservedly for the ease with which we allowed it to be blunted from us. For most, participatory democracy was overnight fleeced without so much as anyone even noticing - let alone taking proclamatory measures to prevent. Has me thinking of retiring in reverse, heading up to New Hampshire, renting a room in a hand-counted paper ballot county, cheering for the Pats and talking local talk 'till I dutifully drop. Great job, Nancy Tobi (as always), you super-sharp-shooter, you.

COMMENT #14 [Permalink]

... Nancy Tobi said on 3/15/2010 @ 5:03 am PT...





Ernest, hand counted elections only work if they are properly managed. In NH we recommend teams of 4: one person counting, another watching that person counting, one person tallying, another watching the person tallying. On a typical general election ballot with 12-15 contests, you can typically count 1500 ballots in 3 hours using 5 or so teams of 4. Even paying $8/hr, this system is a heck of a lot cheaper than computerized systems. In many NH towns people simply volunteer, and if the town pays them, they give the money back to the town. Or it becomes some pocket change for folks who need it. It's recommended to have new teams come in at polls close so you don't have only the poll workers, who have been there all day and are tired, doing the counting. I'll be posting the youtube of this Town Meeting vote soon. You can see another hand count town (Wilton) on my youtube channel, which is HandsOnElections. Bottom line: hand count election work when properly managed and when they are a community event where, as the wonderful Walter Holland says, "we handle our neighbor's votes with care." Please find lots more information about laying the legal foundation for hand counting, and methodologies for managing hand counts in the Hands-on Elections Handbook here:

http://www.electiondefen..._election_admin_handbook

COMMENT #15 [Permalink]

... Mitch said on 3/15/2010 @ 7:54 am PT...





"On a typical general election ballot with 12-15 contests, you can typically count 1500 ballots in 3 hours using 5 or so teams of 4." Congratulations to Nancy Tobi, Democracy for New Hampshire, and Lyndeborough. I'd suggest election integrity advocates who believe in hand counting take the sentence I quoted above to heart. For every 1,500 cast ballots in your jurisdiction, get signatures and contact information from twenty voters (thirty if you want a reasonable margin for those who drop out) willing to promise their availability to count for four hours on election night after the polls close. If you do that, I'm not saying that registrars will let you hand count, but I will say that registrars will be far more inclined to listen to you.

COMMENT #16 [Permalink]

... Ernest A. Canning said on 3/15/2010 @ 8:48 am PT...





Thanks, Nancy. The information and link you furnished are extraordinarily useful.

COMMENT #17 [Permalink]

... Jeannie Dean said on 3/15/2010 @ 9:13 am PT...





Ernest ~ Great video that not only shows the NH Hand Count process from the 2008 Primary Recount - but how diligent the NH teams of are, how seriously they take their duty, and what happens when they encounter a strange anomaly and how quickly they bring it to bear. In the following video, the counters are stumped because of a ballot sequencing irregularity (this was after a rigorous chain of custody investigation by Blackboxvoting.org that showed some glaring problems): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPLFhCq1XnA MANCHESTER WARD 5: the video below examines the voting machine discrepancies (in this case, Diebold) in BOTH the Dem and Republican races from Manchester Ward 5. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYz9O_SvIJI I was delighted (as an out of state, visiting election geek) to be allowed to sit in with one of the teams to assist. To see 50-70 volunteers hand counting paper ballots was truly a sight for sore hearts. After months of fighting to find out what happened the missing ballots in Sarasota, Florida race that lost 18,412 votes on ES&S's paperless DRE voting machines - New Hampshire seemed like some kind of snowy Heaven. In comparing NH's hand counted wards to the machine counted wards, it was determined that the Diebold OPSCAN machines had a failure rate 163 times greater than allowed by Federal Law (HAVA). You'll recall that one of the reasons a recount was called for was that NH's machine counted wards gave Hillary and unexpected 16 point margin of victory over Obama (because she got a little boo-hooey.) But in the HAND COUNTED wards, Obama won. (* Thanks to Karen from Illinois for all her dead accurate mathematical help understanding the complex shifting of votes from ward to ward. Impossible numbers - in many cases produced more votes than voters, and more voters than votes.)

COMMENT #18 [Permalink]

... SilverFox said on 3/15/2010 @ 10:19 am PT...





Computers cannot be trusted. Why do so many people want to trust technology that only makes it convenient for them rather than keep the human element involved?

COMMENT #19 [Permalink]

... Mitch said on 3/15/2010 @ 10:46 am PT...





Ernest, How many hours have you volunteered to do counting drudge-work at your jurisdiction? Jeannie Dean? SilverFox? Brad? Chorus? Oh, I see.

COMMENT #20 [Permalink]

... Nancy Tobi said on 3/15/2010 @ 1:03 pm PT...





@Mitch: Counting "drudge work"? Are you kidding? We sometimes turn away volunteers because we have so many. Which is more palatable to you, sir: coming together with your community to count ballots every now and then or sending trillions of your dollars to fund a war that kills your friends, family and neighbors and strangers you don't know? Because that's what you get when you lose representational democracy. How much is it worth to you? And by the way, our community-based elections here in NH usually host community raffles, bake sales, and dinner for the counting teams. It's not drudge. It's fun, it's important, and it's our duty.

COMMENT #21 [Permalink]

... Mitch said on 3/15/2010 @ 1:15 pm PT...





I completely agree, Nancy. It just saddens me that there seems to be more folks out there willing to complain than willing to solve the problem, as you and your group have done. In my experience, for every person willing to do the actual volunteer work, there are about ten willing to offer opinions, and hundreds willing to protest. I think if all the people demanding hand counted paper ballots promised to show up to count, and followed through ONCE, many local registrars would be happy to switch to hand counting. A lot of activists I know are too busy moving on to the next exciting thing to complain about, though, not doing the necessary work to solve the problem.

COMMENT #22 [Permalink]

... Jeannie Dean said on 3/15/2010 @ 4:32 pm PT...





@ Mitch - I don't know what crawled up your hole, but I've actually spent a TON of man hours at my local elections board. Your comment is especially inappropriate and unappreciated as I posted a goddamned VIDEO above that shows me volunteering to "hand count" in New Hampshire (which I also spent money out of pocket to travel to do.) How about before you sharpen your knives on us with your passive aggressive bullshit you actually review the info in the thread? With all due respect - how long are you gonna stay pissed at us all and continue to lash out inappropriately?

COMMENT #23 [Permalink]

... Jeannie Dean said on 3/15/2010 @ 4:39 pm PT...





I also find it especially telling that you've answered your own snarky question in #21 without even waiting for a response. So, I guess I can presume it wasn't really a question at all, just an accusation. Shouldn't have bothered answering you, Farkle-Doo.

COMMENT #24 [Permalink]

... Ancient said on 3/15/2010 @ 4:44 pm PT...





Hey Mitch, ever since following this blog I volunteered to be a poll worker and wound up a judge of elections in a small precinct no one would take. Does that qualify? I've also helped in setting up local viewings of Uncoumted. I gave testimony in our state's case for emergency paper ballots last election. An oh yeah, we won!I guess my point is, it was the the incredible job Brad has done inspiring people with the truth about our elections that got me involved.

COMMENT #25 [Permalink]

... Ancient said on 3/15/2010 @ 5:01 pm PT...





Mitch, what have you done?

COMMENT #26 [Permalink]

... Mitch said on 3/15/2010 @ 5:15 pm PT...





More than Jeannie Dean. It's not passive aggressive bullshit, Ms. Dean, the bullshit is what I've found in very very heaping piles from most members of the activist community. If you've actually gotten off your ass long enough to be part of a solution, rather than a vocal advocate for other people doing the job, well, congratulations.

COMMENT #27 [Permalink]

... Mitch said on 3/15/2010 @ 5:17 pm PT...





What I've found is a group of people I actually trust LESS than government officials... backstabbers, useless parasites, and people whose main interest is seeing their names in lights.

COMMENT #28 [Permalink]

... Ancient said on 3/15/2010 @ 5:25 pm PT...





Well you should know by now Mitch, this is a blog where the evidence matters...so I ask again, what have you done?

COMMENT #29 [Permalink]

... Mitch said on 3/15/2010 @ 5:52 pm PT...





Ancient, You're completely right. I've done nothing at all of any value. Signing off Brad Blog for good this time, in every sense of the word.

COMMENT #30 [Permalink]

... Ancient said on 3/15/2010 @ 6:09 pm PT...





Mitch, I don't know what's eating you, but don't put words in my mouth. Being called on snarky comments is not being told you've never done anything of value.

COMMENT #31 [Permalink]

... Ernest A. Canning said on 3/15/2010 @ 10:44 pm PT...





Odd question, Mitch @19. You do realize that in most jurisdictions, mine included, the only way you can get a hand-count is for one of the candidates to ask for one. If you will recall the recent special Senate election in MA. Brad had pleaded with all three candidates in advance that if they were on the losing end to ask for the count. Instead Coakly was congratulated by Kerry for breaking his land speed record in prompt capitulations. The election for the all important 60th seat was conducted entirely on the same Diebold optical scan system that Harri Hursti hacked back in 2004 through a simple alteration of its memory cards. The election was called by an easily hacked computer, candidates declared victory or conceded defeat and not a single human being had counted a single ballot in the entire state of MA. So what is the point of volunteering to count if you don't have hand counts in which a citizen can participate? You're supposed to be one of the good guys on e-voting, Mitch. At least that's what Brad tells me. So why are you being so antagonistic to those who are working along side you to try to fix our broken system?

COMMENT #32 [Permalink]

... lmk said on 3/16/2010 @ 6:01 am PT...





I was an unpaid attorney/observer for a local township recount. By my count, Mitch, so far, you've struck out with all three people who've responded to you. While I'm not sure what other "activist communities" you're involved with, based on your comments perhaps you should find some new groups. To somehow how assume, based on your alleged experience, that those who frequent this website are not donating their time and money is a pretty blatant failed attempt at mind-reading. Mitch, you need to examine your assumptions and also ask yourself why you feel so confident making public assertions/assumptions about people you obviously do not know. Or perhaps you're just a disinfo artist trying to weaken the voting rights community?

COMMENT #33 [Permalink]

... Ernest A. Canning said on 3/16/2010 @ 8:31 am PT...





I'm inclined to agree with LMK's assessment, Mitch, that "you need to examine your assumptions." However, I have an even bigger concern with your "willing to offer opinions" remark in comment #21 after you made some remarkable assumptions in comment #19 in which you called out by name, among others, Brad Friedman. Are you trying to say that the tireless investigative journalism that Brad, Bev Harris and others in the election integrity movement have engaged in over the past six years which has exposed so much about the depth of election fraud has no value --- that it amounts to nothing more than cheaply offered "opinion"? Are you suggesting that there is no role for citizen activists other than taking part in the counting process in those few jurisdictions where the ability to do so is available? When you denigrate citizens who take part in public protests, you are suggesting that their efforts are of no import. In my case, I offered only two comments on this post. The first sought information from Nancy Tobi, which information was needed for a major project that Brad and I are working on. The second was a simple thank you when Nancy furnished that information. For this, I get you trying to smack me down about the number of hours I've personally devoted to counting votes in my jurisdiction, when, in truth, no one gets to hand count votes cast on the optical scanners in my jurisdiction absent a candidate request. Perhaps, Mitch, a bit of self-reflection is in order --- and an apology!

COMMENT #34 [Permalink]

... karenfromillinois said on 3/16/2010 @ 11:27 am PT...





a win for one lil town,gj nancy!! jeanie gets to the heart of things with this statement,

In comparing NH's hand counted wards to the machine counted wards, it was determined that the Diebold OPSCAN machines had a failure rate 163 times greater than allowed by Federal Law (HAVA). the machines are illegal because they do not work,if by work we are assuming they are supposed to give an accurate count..over and over in our citizen audits we find more votes than ballots cast...that can not be accurate,it is that simple when franken got his recount and actually showed the outcome was dif than the machines spit out,i ,perhaps foolishly, thought other pols would notice but,ernest is right the pols race to concede,here in illinois the rep gov nomination was decided by less than 200 votes,2 vote switches per county would of changed the outcome i dont have the answers but what brad has proven on the acorn story,that the msm doesnt report the truth is the same reason we cant get accurate counts in our elections,the msm pretends everything is fine and most people dont realize what a crock they are being fed

COMMENT #35 [Permalink]

... Ancient said on 3/16/2010 @ 2:12 pm PT...





Okay Mitch, one last comment. I screw up, I'm human, we're ALL human. Just look at the exchange between Ernest and me at #9 and #10. I admit it and come back. Its really not that hard to do, and I'm always the better for it. Were here to help each other, not hurt each other in our common struggle of living... and getting clean elections. I hope you feel better tomorrow.

COMMENT #36 [Permalink]

... Ancient said on 3/16/2010 @ 3:00 pm PT...





An oh yeah obamma, until bush and cheney can admit they were wrong, the doj should be in full force upholding the laws of this country. But per chance they can see their way back to humanity and admit their mistakes, then, and only then, may the mercy of the court prevail. All the tides that come and go in the world still leave the world we are graced to live on.

COMMENT #37 [Permalink]

... Ancient said on 3/16/2010 @ 3:42 pm PT...



COMMENT #38 [Permalink]

... Lora said on 3/16/2010 @ 4:35 pm PT...

