Vince



Posts: 8342







DeveloperPosts: 8342 CSG update #21 - Grenades and headgear « on: November 20, 2017, 09:57:38 pm »



Different attacks with pros and cons AoD-style

Cover (natural and energy shields) and gadgets

Grenades

The first two are self-explanatory, the third one is something new and hopefully exciting, so let's go over the design as we're about to start implementing it.



Ship-made Grenades (cheap and fairly common, many enemies will have several grenades on their belts).



1. Gas Grenade – creates a visible 7x7 poison cloud that hovers over the affected area for 2 turns and does X damage per turn for Y number of turns (once poisoned).







If poison gets through the respirator or mask (i.e. the mask doesn’t block the poison entirely), it causes low damage to physical stats (STR, DEX, CON), which is worse than 2-3 points of damage per turn.



So the gas grenades’ stats are:

- Damage per turn

- Number of turns once poisoned

- Stat damage (damage range is 1-3; 1 is common, 3 is rare).



Defense:

- respirators (half masks), gas masks (full masks), full helmets to reduce poison DR

- implant (synthetic heart with blood purifier) to reduce poison stat damage



2. Flashbang Grenade – instant flash in the middle of a 7x7 area that sets all affected enemies’ PER to 1 (thus lowering THC), reduces their AP by 10 (disoriented), and sets Evasion to 0. All effects last 1 turn, Evasion penalty starts during the player’s turn and ends after the enemy’s turn.







Defense: Combat goggles, full helmets, or implant (bionic eye) to reduce PER and AP loss



3. Smoke Grenade – creates a dense 7x7 cloud that hovers over the affected area for 2 turns. The cloud greatly reduces visibility: if your target is in the cloud or behind the cloud (i.e. there is a smoke cloud between you and your target), your THC is set to 5%, representing zero visibility.







Basically, it affects both parties (if you’re in the cloud, you can’t see anything outside of it either), so it’s best suited for charging melee attackers to generate some cover while they are on the move.



Defense: Goggles, full helmets, or implants (bionic eye with different properties) to increase visibility (thermal vision).



We assume that your THC is THC under perfect conditions. If the visibility is reduced, your THC is reduced with it. So if combat goggles give you visibility of 80% and your THC is 60%, then your adjusted THC is 60*0.8 = 48%



* * *

Earth-made Grenades are much more powerful but rare. They are a last resort weapon and you won’t have more than 5-7 such grenades in the entire game. Defending against them is much harder and will require equally rare gadgets.



4. Stasis Field – creates a 3x3 stasis field that lasts 2 turns. You can’t attack those trapped inside and they can’t do anything either. It’s a ‘divide and conquer’ grenade.



Defense: None







5. Brainwave Disruptor – instant spiral effect over 5x5 area that tries to make the affected characters go berserk and attack nearby targets (most likely their own allies).



Defense: Helmet’s mental resistance stat (Neural Shield), we roll to see if you manage to resist the urge to kill nearby people. If you pass the check, you are unaffected.







6. Pulse Grenade – instant pulse over 10x10 area. All energy shields are disabled, all gadgets are fried and can’t be used for the duration of combat. All droids are disabled for 2 turns.







* * *

Defensive Gear and Stats , come in different varieties with different stats:



1. Respirator (half mask)

- Toxic Resistance 2







2. Gas Mask (full mask)

- Toxic Resistance 4



The gas mask provides superior protection but takes both slots, meaning you can’t wear goggles and thus are vulnerable to flashbangs and smoke grenades.







3. Tactical Mask (gas mask and combat goggles combo) – Earth-made gear, rare

- Toxic Resistance 3

- Thermal Vision 40%



4. Combat Goggles

- Optic Resistance 4 (meaning that your PER and AP aren’t reduced to 1 and by 10 respectively but to 5 (1+4) and by 6 (10-4).

- Thermal Vision 60%

- Targeting 5% (aimed THC bonus)







5. Power Armor Helmet

- Damage Resistance 12

- Toxic Resistance 8

- Optic Resistance 6

- Thermal Vision 80%

- Targeting 15%

- Neural Shield 75%



The AI will target your weaknesses, so if your character has high-quality goggles but a cheap gas mask, the AI will use a poison grenade, etc. This way reloading and equipping a better gas mask won’t make a difference because the AI will target a different weakness. Your headgear will be useful not only in combat but also while exploring the ship, so non-combat characters will still have a reason to look for better gear.



Thoughts?

There are 3 main tactical elements:The first two are self-explanatory, the third one is something new and hopefully exciting, so let's go over the design as we're about to start implementing it.(cheap and fairly common, many enemies will have several grenades on their belts).1.– creates a visible 7x7 poison cloud that hovers over the affected area for 2 turns and does X damage per turn for Y number of turns (once poisoned).If poison gets through the respirator or mask (i.e. the mask doesn’t block the poison entirely), it causes low damage to physical stats (STR, DEX, CON), which is worse than 2-3 points of damage per turn.So the gas grenades’ stats are:- Damage per turn- Number of turns once poisoned- Stat damage (damage range is 1-3; 1 is common, 3 is rare).Defense:- respirators (half masks), gas masks (full masks), full helmets to reduce poison DR- implant (synthetic heart with blood purifier) to reduce poison stat damage2.– instant flash in the middle of a 7x7 area that sets all affected enemies’ PER to 1 (thus lowering THC), reduces their AP by 10 (disoriented), and sets Evasion to 0. All effects last 1 turn, Evasion penalty starts during the player’s turn and ends after the enemy’s turn.Defense: Combat goggles, full helmets, or implant (bionic eye) to reduce PER and AP loss3.– creates a dense 7x7 cloud that hovers over the affected area for 2 turns. The cloud greatly reduces visibility: if your target is in the cloud or behind the cloud (i.e. there is a smoke cloud between you and your target), your THC is set to 5%, representing zero visibility.Basically, it affects both parties (if you’re in the cloud, you can’t see anything outside of it either), so it’s best suited for charging melee attackers to generate some cover while they are on the move.Defense: Goggles, full helmets, or implants (bionic eye with different properties) to increase visibility (thermal vision).We assume that your THC is THC under perfect conditions. If the visibility is reduced, your THC is reduced with it. So if combat goggles give you visibility of 80% and your THC is 60%, then your adjusted THC is 60*0.8 = 48%are much more powerful but rare. They are a last resort weapon and you won’t have more than 5-7 such grenades in the entire game. Defending against them is much harder and will require equally rare gadgets.4.– creates a 3x3 stasis field that lasts 2 turns. You can’t attack those trapped inside and they can’t do anything either. It’s a ‘divide and conquer’ grenade.Defense: None5.– instant spiral effect over 5x5 area that tries to make the affected characters go berserk and attack nearby targets (most likely their own allies).Defense: Helmet’s mental resistance stat (Neural Shield), we roll to see if you manage to resist the urge to kill nearby people. If you pass the check, you are unaffected.6.– instant pulse over 10x10 area. All energy shields are disabled, all gadgets are fried and can’t be used for the duration of combat. All droids are disabled for 2 turns., come in different varieties with different stats:1. Respirator (half mask)- Toxic Resistance 22. Gas Mask (full mask)- Toxic Resistance 4The gas mask provides superior protection but takes both slots, meaning you can’t wear goggles and thus are vulnerable to flashbangs and smoke grenades.3. Tactical Mask (gas mask and combat goggles combo) – Earth-made gear, rare- Toxic Resistance 3- Thermal Vision 40%4. Combat Goggles- Optic Resistance 4 (meaning that your PER and AP aren’t reduced to 1 and by 10 respectively but to 5 (1+4) and by 6 (10-4).- Thermal Vision 60%- Targeting 5% (aimed THC bonus)5. Power Armor Helmet- Damage Resistance 12- Toxic Resistance 8- Optic Resistance 6- Thermal Vision 80%- Targeting 15%- Neural Shield 75%The AI will target your weaknesses, so if your character has high-quality goggles but a cheap gas mask, the AI will use a poison grenade, etc. This way reloading and equipping a better gas mask won’t make a difference because the AI will target a different weakness. Your headgear will be useful not only in combat but also while exploring the ship, so non-combat characters will still have a reason to look for better gear.Thoughts? « Last Edit: November 21, 2017, 01:54:56 pm by Vince » Logged

puppyonastik



Posts: 307







CraftsmanPosts: 307 Re: CSG update #21 - Grenades, gadgets, and headgear « Reply #1 on: November 21, 2017, 07:32:11 am »



Pocket sized sound alarms that damage the ears of potential kidnappers/alert others in a very large area are common.

I could see by the time frame of your game, place-able traps and "sound grenades" that could really fuck up someone's day, but are limited to spaces in the ship that have enough air pressure.



Edit: Everything you've posted looks beautiful, great job Oscar, you make grenades fuckable. And other than what I mentioned, I think the stats on the gear looks great.





Since you figure in damage to the eyes. It would stand that gas should effect them as well (but maybe not as critically, since they don't lead to the lungs and we have the tendency to close our eyes when damaged), they have mucous membranes just like the the nose and mouth.Pocket sized sound alarms that damage the ears of potential kidnappers/alert others in a very large area are common. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01N30XV0N/ « Last Edit: November 21, 2017, 07:36:17 am by puppyonastik » Logged Quote from: Mayday Can a single dick even enter a group setting? Quote from: Fez You've never lived until you've tried it.

puppyonastik



Posts: 307







CraftsmanPosts: 307 Re: CSG update #21 - Grenades, gadgets, and headgear « Reply #2 on: November 21, 2017, 07:43:44 am » Another thought, while we're talking about grenades. How much "terrain destructibility" is there? Can I, in certain situations, blow a hole leading to a section of the ship that's depressurized or outside into space while in combat to suck my rivals out? Are there sections of the ship where I'd want to watch my fire? Logged Quote from: Mayday Can a single dick even enter a group setting? Quote from: Fez You've never lived until you've tried it.

puppyonastik



Posts: 307







CraftsmanPosts: 307 Re: CSG update #21 - Grenades, gadgets, and headgear « Reply #5 on: November 21, 2017, 08:19:18 am » More thoughts: Adding PER damage to the gas would allow the AI and the player to lower the to-hit-chance of or temporarily blind pesky snipers. Since you have the smoke grenade, I would only have the gas effect sight for a single turn; Representing the combatant adjusting to the situation.



Edit: I meant to also state that maybe the flashbang's effect should last somewhat longer. As it's effect in the real world is around 5+ seconds (at least when looking for data available on the net.). Which is quite a long time in turn-based terms. Edit 5: This would make the possibility of a "rush down" a clear and present danger in many confrontations.



Edit 2: I think distance and environment is going to be a big factor here. Enabling accurate fire at long distance like Silent Storm, will make those smoke grenades very handy to let your melee guys get up in your enemies faces. I think that trying to go wide rather than close in will produce more interesting results as long as your AI is up to snuff. (I believe in you, Nick.)



Edit 3: For areas you intend the player to be up close and personal no matter what, you can manage with environmental design and cover. It would be easy to make special situations where throwing any grenade is ridiculous. Another question to ask is, now that you're using Unreal Engine, will you also be using physics or simulating them (ie; grenades bouncing off walls)?



Edit 4: An interesting possibility is combat on multiple levels. If you could just get your thief to sneak above the enemy and "drop" a grenade... « Last Edit: November 21, 2017, 10:40:24 am by puppyonastik » Logged Quote from: Mayday Can a single dick even enter a group setting? Quote from: Fez You've never lived until you've tried it.

bersercker



Posts: 27





NovicePosts: 27 Re: CSG update #21 - Grenades and headgear « Reply #6 on: November 21, 2017, 11:59:54 pm »



I wonder, will the dead enemies drop their unused grenades?



Also, i played the Warbanners game recently(pretty neat fantasy turn-based tactics) which made great use of grenades and also gave them to the enemies in abundance(and the AI knew how to use them properly too). Which lead to player party being unable to do much other than try and stay alive until the enemies run out of grenades due to being constantly stunned, poisoned, frozen, burning etc. Hope something similar won't happen in the new world. Looks great.I wonder, will the dead enemies drop their unused grenades?Also, i played the Warbanners game recently(pretty neat fantasy turn-based tactics) which made great use of grenades and also gave them to the enemies in abundance(and the AI knew how to use them properly too). Which lead to player party being unable to do much other than try and stay alive until the enemies run out of grenades due to being constantly stunned, poisoned, frozen, burning etc. Hope something similar won't happen in the new world. Logged

Vince



Posts: 8342







DeveloperPosts: 8342 Re: CSG update #21 - Grenades and headgear « Reply #7 on: November 22, 2017, 08:38:49 am » Quote from: bersercker on November 21, 2017, 11:59:54 pm I wonder, will the dead enemies drop their unused grenades? There are no 'drops'. You'll be able to loot all weapons and armor from dead enemies: boots, helmets, guns, armor, unused grenades, etc. With a bit of skill you'd even be able to remove implants.



Quote Also, i played the Warbanners game recently(pretty neat fantasy turn-based tactics) which made great use of grenades and also gave them to the enemies in abundance(and the AI knew how to use them properly too). Which lead to player party being unable to do much other than try and stay alive until the enemies run out of grenades due to being constantly stunned, poisoned, frozen, burning etc. Hope something similar won't happen in the new world. We have different goals but time will tell if we manage to execute them properly. There are no 'drops'. You'll be able to loot all weapons and armor from dead enemies: boots, helmets, guns, armor, unused grenades, etc. With a bit of skill you'd even be able to remove implants.We have different goals but time will tell if we manage to execute them properly. Logged

Sparacul



Posts: 153







ColonistPosts: 153 Re: CSG update #21 - Grenades and headgear « Reply #10 on: November 23, 2017, 06:01:30 am » Quote from: Vince on November 22, 2017, 08:38:49 am You'll be able to loot all I can see huge flow of items if you play killer. Will there be some tweaks to merchants? In AoD I usually sell all my stuff to that guy near Arena. In late game, he has so much merch that he can't buy anymore and so "can't" I (because of the scrolling). Can you make it so that traders "disappear" items over time and not hoard them till the end of times? I can see huge flow of items if you play killer. Will there be some tweaks to merchants? In AoD I usually sell all my stuff to that guy near Arena. In late game, he has so much merch that he can't buy anymore and so "can't" I (because of the scrolling). Can you make it so that traders "disappear" items over time and not hoard them till the end of times? Logged

Scott



Posts: 2415







DeveloperPosts: 2415 Re: CSG update #21 - Grenades and headgear « Reply #12 on: November 28, 2017, 12:47:53 pm » Quote The AI will target your weaknesses, so if your character has high-quality goggles but a cheap gas mask, the AI will use a poison grenade, etc. This way reloading and equipping a better gas mask won’t make a difference because the AI will target a different weakness. I mean, sure, but how many enemies are going to have three different types of grenade so they can get around every kind of defense? Speaking of which, I really didn't like when AoD enemies were revamped so every single one had a ranged weapon in addition to melee. Was very cheesy.



Are you using the term "Power Armor", or is that just shorthand?



Although it's undoubtedly realistic, I never liked the "loot all" convention since it started in Fallout. It completely fucks up the economy, mandates kludgey workarounds, and degrades the equipment-type "treasures" you find by flooding the market with stuff. Suggestion: have enemies equipped with "damaged" (by being killed in it) armor with a modest stat penalty compared to undamaged and a big resale penalty with merchants. New graphics not necessary.



To use the Fallout example: the Leather Armor you find becomes Damaged Leather Armor, the player still has a reason to find undamaged Leather Armor, and the player can't get rich farming Leather Armor from enemies. *And* you don't have to come up with some tortured/inconvenient merchant logic. I mean, sure, but how many enemies are going to have three different types of grenade so they can get around every kind of defense? Speaking of which, I really didn't like when AoD enemies were revamped so every single one had a ranged weapon in addition to melee. Was very cheesy.Are you using the term "Power Armor", or is that just shorthand?Although it's undoubtedly realistic, I never liked the "loot all" convention since it started in Fallout. It completely fucks up the economy, mandates kludgey workarounds, and degrades the equipment-type "treasures" you find by flooding the market with stuff. Suggestion: have enemies equipped with "damaged" (by being killed in it) armor with a modest stat penalty compared to undamaged and a big resale penalty with merchants. New graphics not necessary.To use the Fallout example: the Leather Armor you find becomes Damaged Leather Armor, the player still has a reason to find undamaged Leather Armor, and the player can't get rich farming Leather Armor from enemies. *And* you don't have to come up with some tortured/inconvenient merchant logic. Logged contributed to: Age of Decadence | Dead State | Dungeon Rats | Battle Brothers | Fell Seal:Arbiter's Mark | Stygian

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