Starting a new life in a foreign country can be just as exciting as it can be fear-inducing. Promises of higher salary and new experiences are balanced out by risks of foreign lands and fear of the unknown. Unfortunately, far too many times we’ve seen players suffer through a bad deal or negotiation in a land where they have nobody they know - let alone trust.



To stop this fear from becoming reality, there is a person who peruses through tens and hundreds of contracts, listens to everything that a player might want to know and represents them in negotiations with teams and brands. Although many Koreans are wary of agents after a few unfortunate cases, Barry Lee, an agent for Evolved Talent Agency, has been a name that every player can trust when it comes to legal matters.





▲ Barry Lee, Evolved Talent Agency

Q. Hello. How should we introduce you as? You’ve done too much in esports to be summarized just in a single paragraph.



Hello. I’m Barry Lee. I sure did a lot, but I guess I’m content with just being introduced as a third year law student at George Washington Law School who is also working as an esports agent.





Q. What is your main responsibility as an agent?



The job that I do most is reviewing and evaluating esports players’ contracts. I review a player’s contract and tell the player whether there’s any problem with it. My main responsibility is representing a player in their negotiations with organizations and brands.



It’s not easy for a player to directly communicate with organizations, and what I do is to represent those players so that I can communicate on their behalf. That means I can talk about potentially sensitive but necessary issues surrounding the contract with the team on behalf of the player. I may look like a middleman in a bureaucratic heirarchy, but I make sure that the negotiations go well.





Q. Do you have something that you think is the most important while working as an agent



There is a question that I value most that I ask the players every time: “What do you really want?” No matter how much an organization can provide, it may not be what the player really wants. I only represent the players, and I do not make decisions on their behalf. I can recommend a course of action that’s in the player’s best interest, but I do not ever decide for them. That’s how an agent should operate.





Q. Do you feel that you have your own style of business when working as an agent?



I don’t think so. The players are my clients; whether you are a lawyer, an advertising agency or whatever, you have to cater to your client, and that’s what I do too. I could find something and present it as a good opportunity for players, but if the player doesn’t want that then that’s the end of it. I may operate slightly differently from other agents, but this is how most agencies in entertainment industries operate. After all, we are hired by the players.





Q. With many Korean players in the NA LCS, I expect they must as you for help for many different things. I expect the players to trust you more than as ‘just an agent’.



I guess that’s true. For example, we’ve had many players asking us to find a team for them. Then we ask organizations that there’s a player who is looking for a team, and we link the interested organizations with the player and give them an opportunity to start negotiating.



Another thing that we are trying to do is setting up individual sponsorships. It’s not easy for individual players to have sponsorships unless the player is famous enough to have brands offering the player a sponsorship. We hope to provide sponsorships opportunities for not just esports players but also Twitch streamers, YouTubers and even indie game developers.





Q. ‘Contract Consultation’ sounds like something that players could find unfamiliar and burdensome.



Until recently, we haven’t charged players a fee for contract consultations. Not only did we start up the business recently, but we also wanted to help as many players as possible and had a goal that players would tell others that we were competent at what we do. Players talk to each other. Until this November, contract consultations are free, and we will start charging a fee after that point.





Q. Do you think the players are happy with how you’ve represented them?



I think so. There was this player who used to play in China, and he had to go through the signing process without an agent and not knowing exactly what he was signing. However, he was happy and relieved at how he had someone who’d go through every aspect of the contract. He wasn’t the only one who thanked me either.





Out of the Korean players that are currently playing in NA, I’ve seen about half of their contracts. I don’t know exactly how many off the top of my head. I’ve also helped American and European players as well. Of the players that I can talk about freely, our agency helped Seunghoon “Huni” Heo and Euijin “Reignover” Kim. When Huni initially signed with Immortals, we helped negotiate the clause that allowed him to eventually go to SKT T1. We are quite thankful to Immortals. We understood what the player wanted, and negotiated with Immortals to make it a reality. That negotiation went quite well for us.





Q. Can you tell us more of players that you represent? Only the ones that you are allowed to, of course.



Sure, I currently represent Changsuk “GBM” Lee, Austin “Gate” Yu, Eugene “Pobelter” Park, Diego “Quas” Ruiz and many others. We also represent Alfonso “mithy” Aguirre Rodriguez and Jesper “Zven” Svenningsen in Europe.



When speaking of the entire agency, we also represent Overwatch players instead of just League of Legends. I think we currently represent about 70 percent of all North American players who will play in the Overwatch League. We also have a presence in Dota 2, and we are also trying to expand into fighting game scene as well. I’m in charge of the League of Legends arm of our agency, and we have departments that focus on Twitch and YouTube content creators and indie game developers in various regions.





Q. How did you first start working for Evolved?



I got an offer. I previously worked at OGN as an interpreter and filled in as a caster a couple of times. I also worked as a manager for NRG Esports. While I was in New York for Worlds, I got contacted asking me if I wanted to work with them as an agent, and I accepted it because it was something I’ve wanted to do.





▲Barry Lee, circa his OGN days.

Q. Can you tell us how you got into esports industry from the beginning? Starting from your OGN days.



Sure. I graduated from Johns Hopkins University with a Cell Biology degree. After that, I attended UCLA for a Ph.D. program in Biochemistry. I was completely a STEM student - I used to wear a blue lab coat and worked with mice. My research wasn’t going so well, and I was beginning to think that a Ph.D. wasn’t for me. Thinking back, I think I was probably a little depressed. After I satisfied the requirements for a Master’s Degree, I left UCLA and decided continue with an idea that I had before, going to law school. If you want to work in patent law in the United States, you need a STEM degree. You need technical knowledge.



So I came home to Korea and prepared for the LSAT. One day I looked on the internet, and OGN had posted on Facebook that they needed an interpreter. I put in an application as I had cast some games previously. That’s how I started working for OGN part time as an interpreter behind my parents’ backs.





Q. I guess your family wasn’t too accepting of video games.



My grades weren’t on the bad side, but my parents considered games as something that had hindered my studies for a long time. It was much later that I told them that I wanted to work in esports. My father was a bit upset, but thankfully, he is now more open to it.



I think they started to see how esports is a growing industry with strong potential after seeing how it started to expand in the United States. Above all, I think they love how much I enjoy being in this industry. As for my mother, I’m not so sure, but I think she is more lax about what I’m doing because I’m getting older.



From secretly working at OGN to consulting for teams, being the manager for NRG and now working for Evolved Talent starting last November...There’s been a lot of changes.





Q. I remember people mistaking you for William "Chobra" Cho (previously interpreter for OGN, currently in ESL) while you were at OGN.



(Laughs) I can see why. I guess it’s because we both have round faces and wear glasses. I got a chance to cast LCK after Chobra left for ESL, and I’m thankful OGN gave me that opportunity. When I first applied to OGN they thought it was a bit unusual. I was a bio major from Johns Hopkins and seemed like an academic nerd with no knowledge of games. If the person in charge of the application process had been less curious about my application, they wouldn’t have picked me for that job and I probably might not have had the chance to work in esports.





▲ I guess they do look similar…

Truthfully, the people I’m most grateful to in esports is the person at OGN that picked me and MonteCristo. He could have become a lawyer, and he used to work for a law firm. One day, he told me how someone who is smart, professional, and competent can be hugely successful in esports in one way or another. He told me, “Why are you going to law school, you should stay in esports.” At the time I had my parents’ expectations to consider, and though I wanted to work in esports, I didn’t want to disappoint them. Monte told me “Don’t worry about your parents and work in esports since you’re competent.” Monte’s the type that does whatever he wants.



The first player that I represented was Eonyoung “Impact” Jeong back in Fall 2015. From working with him, I realized how much esports players needed agents. Back then, Impact wasn’t as good as he is now at English, and other younger players would need an agent since English used in legal matters is different from everyday English. All other professional sports have player agents. If there’s a person who can take care of legal matters on their behalf, players can just focus on the game only.





Q. What was the situation like for players in terms of contracts and negotiations before you came into the scene?



I’ll say they were ‘somewhat adequate’, but it certainly wasn’t good enough. Players often asked their parents or acquaintances who were good at English. That led to several problems. No matter how good you were at English, English used in legal matters is different from everyday English. There are subtle but significant differences.



You have to be really careful with contracts with not just what's written there but also what's not written in there. Most problems happen with those unwritten parts, and that’s something that applies to English-speaking players too. For example, the contract might have specified on-season salary, but says nothing about off-season salary. Players might assume that the salary agreement also applies to non-season as well and decide to glance over it. We catch those kinds of loopholes and make sure that they write down the unwritten part. Since these problems are very common, we even made a checklist that we use when we go through a player’s contract: A checklist with everything that needs to be included.





Q. Wouldn’t organizations prefer to have direct contact with the players instead of agents who should be more knowledgeable at negotiations?



That's what I thought at first, but even the organizations soon realized how much money they could save with agents. Without agents, players are likely to have problems with their contracts, which can lead to performance issues and even leaving the team mid-split. That costs teams significantly. Agents might look like an unnecessary upfront cost, but it’s going to be less hassle for them and be a net profit for the organizations in the end.





Q. As you should be already aware, Korea and China have a bad experience with some unsavory ‘agents’. Was there such cases in the United States?



I don’t think there have been many large cases of that in NA. There aren’t many agents to begin with anyway. Come to think of it, players from NA tend not to leave the region, while players outside the region often come to NA. What happened in Korea was because Korea is an export region, unlike NA.





▲ Korea had several problems with unsavory ‘agents’

Q. As an agent yourself, why do you think the agents have a bad reputation in Korea and China?



Making false promises is a very common problem. I don’t think those agents were planning to lie from the start. It was just that they were too cocky. However, they must have realized that their promise was impossible to keep as they went through negotiations. Of course, there must have been some who were planning to commit fraud from the start, but I’ll say most cases are simple unkept promises. Of course, they are all technically frauds anyway.



What you really have to be careful is making realistic promises. You can never be sure about anything in business. So, I often have a backup plan when I’m talking about how a negotiation might go. Also, since the reputation of agents in general to Koreans are very low to start with, I’m even more careful when working with Korean players.





Q. Is there are player that you are particularly fond of?



I’m rather close to GBM. Remember how I told you that I used to be the manager for NRG Esports? That’s the reason why I’m representing GBM and Quas. Kyumin “Ohq” Oh left for China, so I can’t represent him anymore. GBM is one of the most ‘problematic’ but also most interesting player to represent.





Q. (Laughs) What do you mean by ‘problematic’?



Well, maybe it was because NRG got relegated? I had to find tryouts for him when he wanted to go abroad because he wanted to play as a jungler, but he went to Vitality as a midlaner, and eventually to eUnited. I had to negotiate and look at his contracts wherever he tried to go.



GBM and I always have fun talks. We often dine out together and keep in touch in LA. He doesn’t forget to thank me whenever he wants to, and I’m sure Korean fans know how candid he can be if I’ve been doing a terrible job. (Laughs) I’ve also gotten to know Inkyu “DanDy” Choi. I hope things go well for them. We once played PlayerUnknown’s Battleground together with Lucas “Santorin” Tao Kilmer Larsen as a 4-man squad. Santorin is really good, while GBM and I tend to troll.



However, I still have to be careful because it’s still a business relationship. I have to bring in more players, and I wouldn’t want to have bad reputation by doing a poor job. DanDy specifically asked me to give advice on his contract solely because of another player’s recommendation. That’s how important reputation is, and that’s why I have to be very careful.





Q. What do you mean by having to be careful?



If something goes wrong and the player takes a hit, the fault lies with me as I’m supposed to be representing the player. Fortunately that hasn’t happened yet, but I’m always being careful.





Q. You must get anxious from time to time with all that responsibility.



Of course,. Every team even has a different format for contracts. For a while, all teams used to use the template provided by Riot Games, but as teams started to hire lawyers and use different form of contracts, they all started to develop in their own ways. I had to study all of them.





Q. Being a good agent means having to know a lot about the players and their teams. Do you also watch the games a lot?



Of course. I watch both LCK and LCS a lot. I sometimes talk to the analysts about the game - How good a player is, and whether they agree with my assessments. I also talk a lot with coaches too.





Q. What is your outlook of esports agent market in NA?



I hope we get more competition - especially competent ones. If the market becomes more crowded, then a lot more players will be able to have the benefit of having an agent. Also, if our competitors are competent, that would give us more reasons to improve ourselves and be better. Then, players can really just focus on playing the game, and it will lead to the esports industry improving in general.



Of course, we already have some competitors and there are agents who specialize in representing the organizations. In that case, they’ll be representing the organizations in negotiations that involve sponsors and investors. The reason why player agents are not very common in NA is because the market wasn’t lucrative enough. It is a lot better nowadays because people started to see how necessary the player agents are.





Q. Let’s change the topic. Who do you think will win this split in LCK?



I’m an SKT T1 fan, so I hope that they’ll win. I’ve been on SKT T1 train since Worlds 2013. However, I’m not so certain when speaking objectively. Longzhu Gaming is a strong opponent, so no matter how much SKT T1 is doing well in the playoffs, it’s going to be a tough match to predict.





▲ I didn’t realize that I took a photo of him without knowing who he was.

Q. Then what about NA LCS?



TSM has always been strong, but Immortals are stronger than I’ve ever imagined. At first, I didn’t think that IMT would do that well judging from how they did during Spring Split. With Xmithie on board, however, they are doing better than they’ve ever done. Of course, everyone in TSM is on their prime. Just as every player on SKT T1 can carry their own weight, every player in TSM can be expected to carry, so I’ll say TSM is a well-balanced team.





▲ How could a team change so dramatically in a single split?

The biggest strength that TSM has compared to other teams is their ‘decisiveness’. While the outcome could sometimes backfire, being able to really make a decisive play with all five members of the team isn’t common in NA. If you’d look at less competitive teams, it’s hard to find all five players committing to a certain play. While there are other factors involved as well, teams really need to be able to play as a team. It’s something that everyone talked about time to time.



This is why teams might not do well in matches compared to how they’ve done in scrims. Players tend to overthink when in official matches instead of being decisive. There’s also the factor of focusing too much on macro plays even when fundamentals are lacking. Having weak fundamentals means that a shift in the metagame towards wrong direction can really put a team in a bad slump.





Q. Let’s wrap the interview with one last question. As an agent, do you have something that you want every player to know?



I understand why Korean players are wary of agents after all that has happened in Korea. However, I hope they find a good agency regardless of whether they are playing in Korea or anywhere else. Agents can be considered as a way for players to protect themselves legally. I’d like to say that I’m a good agent, but I’m sure other people’s opinion matters a lot more than my own opinion about myself. So, it doesn’t necessarily have to be us, but I hope players find a good agent to protect them.



Also, just to make sure: Read the fine print instead of glancing over it to read just the numbers. Especially check for ‘unwritten portions.’



I get a lot of inquiries via Twitter; and if you are still debating whether to ask for a consultation - Whoever you are and whenever it may be, basic consultations with me are free of charge. Until I actually have to work with a contract, feel free to ask me anything.







Related in-depth Interview :

- Interview with Sophie Ahn, English tutor helping Korean players in NA LCS

- Yeonsung "iloveoov" Choi’s challenge - from Starcraft No.1 to LoL No.1