Torte de Lini Profile Joined September 2010 Germany 7680 Posts #2561 DRAFT Patch 6.83



+ Show Spoiler + Unchanged

Abaddon

Alchemist

Axe

Bane

Beastmaster

Bountyhunter

Brewmaster

Bristleback

Broodmother

Chaos Knight

Clinkz

Clockwerk

Crystal Maiden

Dark Seer

Dazzle

Death Prophet

Disruptor

Dragon Knight

Earth Spirit

Earthshaker

Elder Titan

Enchantress

Faceless Void

Gyrocopter

IO

Jakiro

Juggernaut

Keeper of the Light

Leshrac

Lifestealer (update descriptions)

Lina

Lion

Luna

Meepo

Morphling

Night Stalker (update descriptions)

Ogre Magi

Outworld Devourer

Phantom Assassin

Phoenix

Pudge

Pugna

Riki

Rubick

Shadow Fiend

Silencer

Skywrath Mage

Slardar

Slark

Spirit Breaker

Storm Spirit

Sven

Techies

Terrorblade

Tidehunter

Tinker

Tiny

Treant Protector

Troll Warlord

Tusk

Undying

Vengeful Spirit

Visage

Warlock

Windranger

AbaddonAlchemistAxeBaneBeastmasterBountyhunterBrewmasterBristlebackBroodmotherChaos KnightClinkzClockwerkCrystal MaidenDark SeerDazzleDeath ProphetDisruptorDragon KnightEarth SpiritEarthshakerElder TitanEnchantressFaceless VoidGyrocopterIOJakiroJuggernautKeeper of the LightLeshracLifestealer (update descriptions)LinaLionLunaMeepoMorphlingNight Stalker (update descriptions)Ogre MagiOutworld DevourerPhantom AssassinPhoenixPudgePugnaRikiRubickShadow FiendSilencerSkywrath MageSlardarSlarkSpirit BreakerStorm SpiritSvenTechiesTerrorbladeTidehunterTinkerTinyTreant ProtectorTroll WarlordTuskUndyingVengeful SpiritVisageWarlockWindranger



Item Changes

Bloodseeker

Drow Ranger

Lone Druid



Skill Changes

Chen (update descriptions as well)

Huskar

Kunkka

Queen of Pain

Sniper

Legion Commander

Alchemist (Lane?)



Item Application

Animal Courier (supports)

Clarity (Earthshaker/Techies)

Diffusal Blade (Templar Assassin/Ursa/Troll Warlord)

Healing Salve

Magic Wand

Medallion of Courage

Pipe of Insight (Centaur Warrunner) BloodseekerDrow RangerLone DruidChen (update descriptions as well)HuskarKunkkaQueen of PainSniperLegion CommanderAlchemist (Lane?)Animal Courier (supports)Clarity (Earthshaker/Techies)Diffusal Blade (Templar Assassin/Ursa/Troll Warlord)Healing SalveMagic WandMedallion of CouragePipe of Insight (Centaur Warrunner) https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)

Torte de Lini Profile Joined September 2010 Germany 7680 Posts Last Edited: 2014-12-18 21:23:32 #2562 Patch 6.83 Applied Changes (description changes not indicated) These are initial changes, more will be made with further feedback and analysis (I'm still at work)

Earthshaker

Removed 1 Clarity



Chen

New Skill Build: E W E W E R E W W Q R Q Q Q (1. Holy Persuasion 2. Test of Faith 3. Penitence)



Drow Ranger

Added Manta Style to Core Items



Kunkka (Middle)

New Skill Build: W Q W E W R W E E E R Q Q Q (1. Tidebringer 2. Torrent 3. X Marks the Spot)



Kunkka (Lane)

New Skill Build: W Q W E W R W E E E R Q Q Q (1. Tidebringer 2. Torrent 3. X Marks the Spot)



Sniper (Middle)

New Skill Build: E W E Q E R E W W W R Q Q Q (1. Take Aim 2. Headshot 3. Shrapnel)



Techies

Removed 1 clarity



Phantom Lancer (Middle)

Added Eye of Skadi to Extension Items

Removed Abyssal Blade



Phantom Lancer (Lane)

Added Eye of Skadi to Extension Items

Removed Abyssal Blade



Ursa (Lane)

Added Vladmir's Offering to Core Items



Ursa (Jungle)

Added Vladmir's Offering to Core Items



Patch 6.83 Inquiries

Diffusal Core for Ursa? kept situational

Alchemist Lane build max Greevil's Greed? kept at 1 value point

Diffusal Blade for TA? Situational or Core? still debating as situational

Troll Warlord Diffusal Blade? still debating situational

Anyone to remove/add Medallion of Courage? unchanged

Change Legion Commaner (Jungle) to Lane? (pretty much confirmed) completed

Update Lone Druid to remove Mask of Madness? (pretty much confirmed) researching

Update Juggernaut? completed

Blademail still valid on Bloodseeker? unchanged Removed 1 ClarityNew Skill Build: E W E W E R E W W Q R Q Q Q (1. Holy Persuasion 2. Test of Faith 3. Penitence)Added Manta Style to Core ItemsNew Skill Build: W Q W E W R W E E E R Q Q Q (1. Tidebringer 2. Torrent 3. X Marks the Spot)New Skill Build: W Q W E W R W E E E R Q Q Q (1. Tidebringer 2. Torrent 3. X Marks the Spot)New Skill Build: E W E Q E R E W W W R Q Q Q (1. Take Aim 2. Headshot 3. Shrapnel)Removed 1 clarityAdded Eye of Skadi to Extension ItemsRemoved Abyssal BladeAdded Eye of Skadi to Extension ItemsRemoved Abyssal BladeAdded Vladmir's Offering to Core ItemsAdded Vladmir's Offering to Core ItemsDiffusal Core for Ursa?Alchemist Lane build max Greevil's Greed?Diffusal Blade for TA? Situational or Core?Troll Warlord Diffusal Blade?Anyone to remove/add Medallion of Courage?Change Legion Commaner (Jungle) to Lane? (pretty much confirmed)Update Lone Druid to remove Mask of Madness? (pretty much confirmed)Update Juggernaut?Blademail still valid on Bloodseeker? https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)

Torte de Lini Profile Joined September 2010 Germany 7680 Posts #2564 Growth of Subscribers still manages to stay at 2 million growth since August 3rd.



Growth Rate Percentage marginally resumes its decline at 4.80%.





11.97% of last month's unique players [9,783,671] are subscribed to the Lifestealer (Jungle) Guide





Top 19 guides are approx. 600k subscribers or higher each (up to 1 million in a guide)



Top 39 guides are approx. 500k subscribers or higher each



Top 68 guides are approx. 400k subscribers or higher each



Top 92 guides are approx. 300k subscribers or higher each



Top 113 guides are approx. 200k subscribers or higher each



Top 119 guides are approx. 100k subscribers or higher each https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)

Sn0_Man Profile Joined October 2012 Tebellong 31461 Posts Last Edited: 2014-12-16 17:34:10 #2565 with respect to 6.83 changes:

In terms of starting items, most of the item changes primarily affect support buys since you have 30 more gold and salves are very slightly cheaper. Support buys are generally too game-dependant and complex to properly spell out but in a pub where ur solo support and in the trench courier/ward is now 270 so that leaves another 380 to buy ur own shit. after a set of tangos ur at 255. you can i guess justify a salve at 110 now but then ur at 145 which is really fucking awful. actually icefrog's just dumb.



Diffusal didn't improve on most heroes its just that u can now buy it without fucking urself over on certain heroes who need a deso or lifesteal or w/e. Its not core on ursa or TA or whatever else u were thinking.



Greed isn't a skill ur maxing early even as safe lane alch, interestingly enough. If you get 3 creeps out of every 4 in lane you actually get virtually nothing from greed level 3 or 4. Icefrog heavily buffed the "value point" in greed without seriously unbalancing the higher levels of it. But I will say that the second point in greed is also very good. The issue is that a safelane farming alch needs to put points into stun in order to exert any kind of map pressure. Once ur maxing stun, the first point in spray is unbelievable value for the -armor. That means u've spent 5 of ur first 7 points on q/w and then there's ult which is a no brainer which leaves limited space for greed points. However, there is an argument to be made that you can delay one point of acid or stun until after you get an initiation item (usually shadowblade if ur safelane) which probably allows u to go 2 in greed for max value in lane. The speed at which you can get a safelane shadowblade with greed though is so disgusting that it might still be right to skill something like e/w/q/w/w/r/w. If you opt to go pure farm build then it's easier since u just go e/q/e/q/e/r/e/q/q/w/r but then ur literally 0 threat to the enemy team until ur level 11 basically. U do farm like a mofo though.



Jugg probably doesn't change much. Crit is now a sick value point but u still can't get it in lane cuz it fucks up ur lasthits. Bloodcyka can still buy blademail but its a lot less of a no brainer. Moderator SCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302

Torte de Lini Profile Joined September 2010 Germany 7680 Posts #2566 On December 17 2014 02:33 Sn0_Man wrote:

with respect to 6.83 changes:

In terms of starting items, most of the item changes primarily affect support buys since you have 30 more gold and salves are very slightly cheaper. Support buys are generally too game-dependant and complex to properly spell out but in a pub where ur solo support and in the trench courier/ward is now 270 so that leaves another 380 to buy ur own shit. after a set of tangos ur at 255. you can i guess justify a salve at 110 now but then ur at 145 which is really fucking awful. actually icefrog's just dumb.



Diffusal didn't improve on most heroes its just that u can now buy it without fucking urself over on certain heroes who need a deso or lifesteal or w/e. Its not core on ursa or TA or whatever else u were thinking.



Greed isn't a skill ur maxing early even as safe lane alch, interestingly enough. If you get 3 creeps out of every 4 in lane you actually get virtually nothing from greed level 3 or 4. Icefrog heavily buffed the "value point" in greed without seriously unbalancing the higher levels of it. But I will say that the second point in greed is also very good. The issue is that a safelane farming alch needs to put points into stun in order to exert any kind of map pressure. Once ur maxing stun, the first point in spray is unbelievable value for the -armor. That means u've spent 5 of ur first 7 points on q/w and then there's ult which is a no brainer which leaves limited space for greed points. However, there is an argument to be made that you can delay one point of acid or stun until after you get an initiation item (usually shadowblade if ur safelane) which probably allows u to go 2 in greed for max value in lane. The speed at which you can get a safelane shadowblade with greed though is so disgusting that it might still be right to skill something like e/w/q/w/w/r/w. If you opt to go pure farm build then it's easier since u just go e/q/e/q/e/r/e/q/q/w/r but then ur literally 0 threat to the enemy team until ur level 11 basically. U do farm like a mofo though.



Jugg probably doesn't change much. Crit is now a sick value point but u still can't get it in lane cuz it fucks up ur lasthits. Bloodcyka can still buy blademail but its a lot less of a no brainer.



wow you made job so much easier. Now I dont have to preoccupy myself with this for a full 12 hour streak (9 to 9)

wow you made job so much easier. Now I dont have to preoccupy myself with this for a full 12 hour streak (9 to 9) https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)

Sn0_Man Profile Joined October 2012 Tebellong 31461 Posts Last Edited: 2014-12-16 18:31:15 #2567 Well thats just the tip of the iceberg.



I dunno what ur sniper guide sez for example but shrapnel's back to "1 point then stats" status etc.



disruptor mega changes btw Moderator SCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302

Torte de Lini Profile Joined September 2010 Germany 7680 Posts Last Edited: 2014-12-16 18:33:40 #2568 On December 17 2014 03:29 Sn0_Man wrote:

Well thats just the tip of the iceberg.



I dunno what ur sniper guide sez for example but shrapnel's back to "1 point then stats" status etc.



disruptor mega changes btw



I don't see any changes with Disruptor. You still want to max Glimpse for the full range.



For mid, I put 1 in Shrapnel, max aim then headshot.

Lane version has no shrapnel I don't see any changes with Disruptor. You still want to max Glimpse for the full range.For mid, I put 1 in Shrapnel, max aim then headshot.Lane version has no shrapnel https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)

Buckyman Profile Joined May 2014 1362 Posts Last Edited: 2014-12-16 18:52:46 #2569 Diffusal Blade's change is relevant for Drow Ranger. It's probably Situational. Needs testing.



I think this will fork my Drow build into S&Y, Diffusal for kiting vs. Shadow Blade, Manta for gank-into-splitpush play.

Torte de Lini Profile Joined September 2010 Germany 7680 Posts #2570 On December 17 2014 03:41 Buckyman wrote:

Diffusal Blade's change is relevant for Drow Ranger. It's probably Situational. Needs testing.



I feel it's redundant and she doesn't exactly need more damage (right?) I feel it's redundant and she doesn't exactly need more damage (right?) https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)

tehh4ck3r Profile Joined August 2013 Magrathea 5918 Posts #2571 I think diffusal is probably too situational on drow to bother putting it in. Plus AFAIK ranged illusions still don't get the mana burn anyway so Diffusal + Manta isn't super useful. Administrator In those days, spirits were brave, the stakes were high, men were real men, women were real women, and small furry creatures from Alpha Centauri were real small furry creatures from Alpha Centauri.

Sn0_Man Profile Joined October 2012 Tebellong 31461 Posts Last Edited: 2014-12-16 20:09:08 #2572 Well manta's actually useable on drow now right. Diffusal's useless u don't need the mana burn and you don't need the slow and u can buy manta now to self-purge so ur gucci. Yes its a nice agi item in theory but in practice manta/SnY and butterfly are better.



And disruptor you prolly still need 2 in glimpse but there's no way ur maxing it first. Its actually so fucking awful having to put all those points in a skill that doesn't slow, stun or do damage. Now u don't have to. Obviously u max it 2nd cuz the range owns but now u can get ur nuke earlier which owns.



There's gotta be more heroes that change i'll reread the patch notes if u want Moderator SCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302

Torte de Lini Profile Joined September 2010 Germany 7680 Posts #2573 On December 17 2014 05:07 Sn0_Man wrote:

Well manta's actually useable on drow now right. Diffusal's useless u don't need the mana burn and you don't need the slow and u can buy manta now to self-purge so ur gucci. Yes its a nice agi item in theory but in practice manta/SnY and butterfly are better.



And disruptor you prolly still need 2 in glimpse but there's no way ur maxing it first. Its actually so fucking awful having to put all those points in a skill that doesn't slow, stun or do damage. Now u don't have to. Obviously u max it 2nd cuz the range owns but now u can get ur nuke earlier which owns.



There's gotta be more heroes that change i'll reread the patch notes if u want



There are probably more changes, though some of it is stuff I need to change from before the patch anyways.



Why not max glimpse? There are probably more changes, though some of it is stuff I need to change from before the patch anyways.Why not max glimpse? https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)

Buckyman Profile Joined May 2014 1362 Posts #2574 Speaking of Drow, how do you feel about a Circlet start, over Slippers? You can get Slippers at the side shop; you're trading -1 damage against the first creep wave for +2 damage while the courier brings your Wraith Band recipe.

TheYango Profile Joined September 2008 United States 10886 Posts Last Edited: 2014-12-16 20:39:20 #2575 Diffusal's situational on every pretty much Agi carry now since you can get it to counter Ghost Scepter without fucking up your lategame orb selection.



However, since you already don't list Ghost Scepter as situational for literally every support (which it is), by the same logic, you're not going to be listing Diffusal on everyone because of this. Therefore, your list of Diffusal users doesn't really change due to this change, because nobody who wasn't getting it before will make it a core item, and everyone else is just getting it to counter Ghost Scepter/purgeable buffs/summoned units. Moderator

Sn0_Man Profile Joined October 2012 Tebellong 31461 Posts Last Edited: 2014-12-16 20:40:04 #2576 I believe what i said was "its actually so fucking awful having to put all those points in a skill that doesn't slow, stun or do damage".



Like with old disruptor skilling 1-3-1 at 5, you actually usually couldn't solo-gank for ur lanes. You needed both supports to be there because while disruptor was great for putting the enemy out of position, he didn't have the lock-down or damage needed to actually kill people (obviously dependant on other things too but still). Now that you can be like 4-2-1-1 at 8 you are a big damage threat (400 dmg nuke) while also being able to catch people out at huge range (1000 is a lot, enough to gank from smoke quite consistently even if break radius is technically 1025)



Hell you may even be able to justify leaving it at level 1 if you can reliably get in 600 range. Which isn't that hard, its the same as ogres old stun for example. Game dependant etc. Moderator SCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302

Torte de Lini Profile Joined September 2010 Germany 7680 Posts #2577 On December 17 2014 05:35 TheYango wrote:

Diffusal's situational on every pretty much Agi carry now since you can get it to counter Ghost Scepter without fucking up your lategame orb selection.



However, since you already don't list Ghost Scepter as situational for literally every support, by the same logic, you're not going to be listing Diffusal on everyone because of this. Therefore, your list of Diffusal users doesn't really change due to this change, because nobody who wasn't getting it before will make it a core item, and everyone else is just getting it to counter Ghost Scepter/purgeable buffs/summoned units.



I still think it is good for heroes like Ursa and it now doesn't impede on his lifesteal I still think it is good for heroes like Ursa and it now doesn't impede on his lifesteal https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)

Torte de Lini Profile Joined September 2010 Germany 7680 Posts #2578



Kunkka (Middle)

New Skill Build: Q W E E E R E Q Q Q R W W W (1. X Marks the Spot 2. Torrent 3. Tidebringer)

TO BE VERIFIED AND TESTED



Queen of Pain

New Skill Build: Q W E E E R E Q Q Q R W W W (1. Scream of Pain 2. Shadow Strike 3. Blink)

TO BE VERIFIED AND TESTED



Sniper (Middle)

New Skill Build: E W E Q E R E W W Q R Q Q (1. Take Aim 2. Headshot 3. Shrapnel) also, what do you guys think of X marks the spot? basically I'm unsure aboutNew Skill Build: Q W E E E R E Q Q Q R W W W (1. X Marks the Spot 2. Torrent 3. Tidebringer)New Skill Build: Q W E E E R E Q Q Q R W W W (1. Scream of Pain 2. Shadow Strike 3. Blink)New Skill Build: E W E Q E R E W W Q R Q Q (1. Take Aim 2. Headshot 3. Shrapnel) https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)

Sn0_Man Profile Joined October 2012 Tebellong 31461 Posts Last Edited: 2014-12-16 20:48:08 #2579 On December 17 2014 05:38 Torte de Lini wrote:

Show nested quote +

On December 17 2014 05:35 TheYango wrote:

Diffusal's situational on every pretty much Agi carry now since you can get it to counter Ghost Scepter without fucking up your lategame orb selection.



However, since you already don't list Ghost Scepter as situational for literally every support, by the same logic, you're not going to be listing Diffusal on everyone because of this. Therefore, your list of Diffusal users doesn't really change due to this change, because nobody who wasn't getting it before will make it a core item, and everyone else is just getting it to counter Ghost Scepter/purgeable buffs/summoned units.



I still think it is good for heroes like Ursa and it now doesn't impede on his lifesteal I still think it is good for heroes like Ursa and it now doesn't impede on his lifesteal

well ursa's best lifesteal was vlads a decent portion of the time and those still worked together.



Really ursa doesn't need agi at all ever since he gets as much damage from strength due to his ult and the attackspeed is irrelevant when he's at cap. The purge sucks compared to just blink + clap since purge has worn off by the time u can run up to most heroes. Basically diffu is the same as it always was: there to purge off ghost sceptres and other jazz. Which isn't different, its just that more heroes can now situationally buy it. Its never worth mentioning in a guide imo.



Also u can't possibly leave x at level 1 its like 325 range now or some shit thats unuseable



And no u can't max q on qop the whole reason u max blink is the CD not the range. The range is just a nice buff.



I dunno what ur current Earthshaker build is but there's like no way u can't justify a point in enchant totem super early now at just 20 mana that skills nuts. Even as like position 6 support totem is still legit in lane at level 2 as a free extra auto. well ursa's best lifesteal was vlads a decent portion of the time and those still worked together.Really ursa doesn't need agi at all ever since he gets as much damage from strength due to his ult and the attackspeed is irrelevant when he's at cap. The purge sucks compared to just blink + clap since purge has worn off by the time u can run up to most heroes. Basically diffu is the same as it always was: there to purge off ghost sceptres and other jazz. Which isn't different, its just that more heroes can now situationally buy it. Its never worth mentioning in a guide imo.Also u can't possibly leave x at level 1 its like 325 range now or some shit thats unuseableAnd no u can't max q on qop the whole reason u max blink is the CD not the range. The range is just a nice buff.I dunno what ur current Earthshaker build is but there's like no way u can't justify a point in enchant totem super early now at just 20 mana that skills nuts. Even as like position 6 support totem is still legit in lane at level 2 as a free extra auto. Moderator SCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302

TheYango Profile Joined September 2008 United States 10886 Posts #2580 I feel like all Icefrog did was make X slightly worse at ranks 2 and 3. Rank 1 still blows, and rank 2 and 3 still do what they did before cuz they're limited by range, while still just having shorter range than they did before.



Also, he fucked over anyone who just left X on 2 or 3 and never learned to combo with rank 4 X lol. Moderator

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