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Registered: 07/30/07

Posts: 2,624 StrangerRegistered: 07/30/07 All Of RR's Notes On Mushroom Cultivation Forum 59

#8468463 - 06/01/08 03:39 AM (12 years, 3 months ago) Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply

THEY'RE SOME MISINFORMATION/OUTDATED INFO SO CHOOSE IT WISELY





COLONIZATION











*Incubating dark is another thing in Paul Stamets 'The Mushroom Cultivator' that needs to go away. The old advice of "incubate in total darkness" is bunk. Those words were written by Stamets in TMC 20 years ago, and he disavows that advice today. There is no harm or benefit from keeping jars in the dark. Expose them to normal room lighting from day one. There is no reason at all to ever have your mycelia in the dark. Darkness will only delay pinning. If you give light from day one, your yields will go up, and you won't face overlay problems. I've found no benefit or harm from allowing the grain jars to be exposed to light from day one. If a few pins form in the grains, it is actually a good thing. Contrary to popular belief, a few pins in the grains can be spawned right into the manure or straw (or used in grain to grain transfers) and they do not rot or otherwise cause contamination. There is evidence they actually help to give a faster, more uniform pinset in the eventual flushes. Stamets believes it's the hormones or other chemical triggers in the pins that do this. Exposing light from day one, one jar out of a hundred will make an early pin or two, but I simply spawn those pins right into bulk substrate along with the grains with zero ill effects. (In other words, small pins don't contaminate when spawned to bulk along with the grains). Twenty years ago, Stamets wrote in TMC to "incubate in total darkness" and people stick to that as if they were the words of god. However, stamets no longer teaches incubation in darkness, and I agree. If you visit fungi perfect, you'll see 10,000 square feet of incubation area, with 8' fluorescent tubes lighting the entire area for ten to twelve hours per day. Of course myc will grow in the presents of light. IME myc grows faster in the absence of light also in nature myc colonizing substrate is most always not exposed to light so when we do not know for sure we will try to mimic nature which IMHO is the intelligent thing to do. Paul is a pioneer and is always learning as are we and things (ideas) will change again as we begin to really understand better what nature has given us. LIGHTING COLONIZATION



*And I've been trying to correct that disinformation for years. It's all based on a chart somebody mailed to stamets many years ago showing 86F to be the peak temperature for growth of cubensis on a petri dish, and everybody just accepts it as though Moses carried it down from the mountain on a tablet of stone. However, every single experiment I did to try to duplicate that with extremely accurate temperature monitoring was unable to verify that bogus 86F figure. What I have repeatedly found regardless of strain is that cubensis colonization remains rather flat from about 75F through 81F. Beginning at 83F, the rate of growth falls off sharply. By 86F, growth has slowed down nearly 50% what it was between 75f and 81F. These experiments were conducted on petri dishes that produce little to no heat because of the very thin layer of mycelium. In jars, up to several degrees of heat is produced by the colonizing mycelium; so definitely don't go over 80F to 81F if you're looking for maximum rate of growth. Furthermore, bacteria and thermophilic molds such as Mucor, the black pin mold are stimulated by higher temperatures. Therefore using an incubator set to 86F is certainly favoring bacteria and molds, while slowing down mushroom mycelium growth. Below is a picture of one of my colonization shelves. It sits in my bedroom at normal room temperature and quart jars of rye berries colonize fully in ten days, and pf jars colonize fully in 14 to 21 days, but usually closer to 14. How often do we see posts where people have incubators set at 86F, and they're asking why their jars aren't colonized after four to five weeks, and they have large spots of yellow liquid forming? The liquid is metabolites that the mycelium secretes in response to stress, usually from competitor molds and/or bacteria. What has happened, is they've slowed down the mycelium while stimulating the competitors. COLONIZATION



*I have found little to no difference in colonization speeds between 75 and 81F. Growth falls off rapidly at 83F and above, not 87F. That chart above is bogus, period. I have tried dozens of times to duplicate it and it can't be done. It was apparently made by someone who did ONE grow with sloppy note taking, and sent the results to Paul. Growth is much slower in cold temperatures until you hit 69F, where it speeds up quite a bit until about 75F, where it remains 'flat' until 81, then is flat again until 83, where it falls off fast beginning at 84. By 'flat' I mean there is no discernible increase or decrease in rate of growth within those ranges. Jars will colonize as fast at 75F as they will at 80F. I've proved this time and time again with every strain in my collection. Growth also falls off rapidly above 84, and this is why so many new folks have problems with incubators set at 86F, and jars that 'won't colonize'. The figures I give are substrate temperatures, not air temperatures. The temp inside the jar is 1 to 5 degrees higher than the surrounding air, depending on where in the colonization cycle the jar is. The heat produced falls off fast as the jar approaches full colonization. If you live in an igloo, (or near the waterfront) by all means build an incubator, but keep it in the normal room temperature ranges for best results. I see no reason to set one above 80F, and lots of reasons not to. Here's a picture of one of my shelves for colonizing jars. The substrate bags are there because I ran out of room on the other shelf. These are in a room at normal room temperature, and exposed to light nearly all day. I don't even put the pf jars on a top shelf where it's warmer. Of course, I had a good teacher on how to make them up, as everyone will soon know. COLONIZATION



*I've been saying that for years. My petri dish studies a few years ago showed that cubensis reaches peak linear growth between 75F and 80F, then is flat until 83F, where it starts to slow down. Mycelium at 86F is growing at about 2/3 the speed of mycelium at 80F. In addition, the higher temps tend to stimulate thermophic molds and bacteria. There's LOT'S of good information in TMC, but that 86F figure is one of the errors. When I did it there were ten petri dishes colonizing at each temperature, in separate containers. I went through well over 200 petri dishes of mycelium for no other reason than to determine the temperature that stimulates fastest growth, other factors being equal. That was a far more controlled study than the one reported over 20 years ago. If someone else wants to repeat the experiment, go for it. I consider the matter closed. Paul doesn't even repeat that 86F figure, which someone else sent him. Bottom line was the tubs that had petri dishes between 75F and 81F showed no difference in growth. Below 75F, and above 81F growth slowed down, with a rapid drop in colonization speed below 70F and above 83F. At 86F, a petri dish would be 2/3 colonized, while its sister at 75F would be fully colonized. Rate of growth at 86F was exactly the same as rate of growth at 72F, with fastest growth as said, occurring between 75F and 81F. Note that these tests were for linear growth in the two-dimensional plane of a petri dish. In three-dimensional space such as in grain jars or bulk substrates, the effects of thermogenesis need to be considered, so ambient temps should be lowered slightly to compensate. COLONIZATION



*80-83F is optimal growth incubation temperature but anything past 81-83F increases the chances of thermophilies a.k.a contamination/bacteria. The 86F myth is based on a flawed agar study where heat isn't generated on petri dishes. Mycelia growth declines rapidly at 86F and above. Paul Stamets later reviles that that is misinformation and should be lower. If it drops into the 60's however your speed of colonization will go slowly. 75-78F or at room temperature in the 70's is perfect for jars. If you're comfortable in a t-shirt in your house the jars are ok. Heating jars in incubator causes a lot of condensation, condensation is where the inside 'Temperature' differs from the outside. This has nothing to do with humidity. Condensation is the enemy of mushroom cultivation. It breeds bacteria and any moisture that is stuck to the walls is moisture that is NOT in the air any more, making your crop suffer. You should read up every week about how many noobs come in asking if they've cooked there jars because there temperature met all the way to the 100F +. This is why I disagree as well as speeding up a few days later, why? To run into more problems? For bulk substrates I wouldn't go higher then 80F as they already create enough heat by themselves. TEMPERATURE COLONIZATION



*80F is fine for incubating, but don't exceed 81F or growth will slow. 86F is not optimal for cubensis. Stamets quoted somebody else who supposedly put out some petri dishes in various temperatures and reported that to him, so he printed it. I've tried to duplicate that experiment, and after several times, I reached the positive conclusion that mycelium rate of growth is fairly flat from 75F to 83F, with it falling off sharply at 84F and above. It should also be noted that glass is an insulator, so the heat produced by the mycelium has no place to go and can easily spiral up into the range where growth falls off and thermophilic molds are encouraged. That's why I recommend normal room temperature for incubation, even if it is a tad slower. The benefits of a lower contamination rate far outweigh the extra day or two earlier they might colonize at a slightly warmer temperature. Besides, you should be waiting a week after full colonization anyway before birthing or spawning in order to allow the mycelium to consolidate its hold on the substrate. COLONIZATION



*I have not used an 'incubation chamber' in several years. If you maintain your house at normal indoor temperatures, your projects will do just fine. There is certainly no need to incubate jars over 80F, and to do so raises contaminant risks considerably. The inside of your jars will be 3 to 4 degrees warmer than the surrounding air. If you heat a chamber up to 86, your jars will be near 90, and much more likely to contaminate. I colonize on a bookshelf in a spare bedroom, and no attempt is taken to prevent the jars from receiving normal room lighting. I then fruit in a small greenhouse type enclosure with no heat applied during the growing process. If it's deep winter and your room is a bit cold, run a small space heater to heat the entire room to 75 or so. That temperature will work just fine for colonization, as well as fruiting. There's no need to make growing any harder than it already is. Keep it simple. COLONIZATION



*Do you know of one place in nature where cubes fruit naturally that does not have a difference between daytime and nighttime temperatures? I've read ever since 1985 that 86F is best, usually because of somebody simply repeating what they've read somewhere, then somebody repeats that, and so on and so on. Now, over 20 years later, they're still repeating it, and it's still wrong. In my grow room, the day and night temperatures fluctuate as much as 20F. When I say normal room temperature that means 72F to 78F. There is zero increase in rate of growth of cubensis above 80F, and mushroom mycelium often stalls out and bacteria is encouraged in warm anaerobic environments, such as is found in the bottom of non-vented tubs commonly used as 'incubators'. COLONIZATION



*Let me tell you guys a story. My fellow moderator Roadkill and I were filming a video segment on pf jars over at my brother's house a month or two ago. Later that day, my non-mycologist brother moved everything we left behind out to his garage, jars included, just to get them out of the way. I told him it didn't really matter, as I just wanted to film the process of making/inoculating the jars. Three weeks later, I went over there and guess what? All of the jars were fully colonized. The temperature of his garage during this time varied from the mid 30's to the low 50's. (He lives about 50 miles from the Canadian border) So, if properly made pf jars can colonize in three weeks at those low temps, why bother with silly incubators? COLONIZATION STORY



*Mycelium will not colonize faster at 86F. That is flat out wrong. The state of growing mushrooms has progressed way past what was thought 25 years ago. Furthermore, the incorrect information presented 25 years ago said that 86F was an optimal SUBSTRATE temperature, not air temperature. Since there is up to a ten-degree increase in substrate temp over air temp, based on those 25-year-old figures, you should colonize at no more than 76F ambient air temperature. However, maximum mycelium growth occurs at a substrate temperature of 80F to 82F, with a drop off in colonization speed above that. Anyway, this has all been covered to death already, so there's no need to repeat it all over again. INCUBATION



*Incubators cause way more problems then they solve. I haven't used one in years. Glass is an insulator and holds heat very well. I've seen up to a ten-degree increase over ambient in the temperature inside the quart jars of grains, when a thermocouple is inserted into the center of the jar. The other problem with using a tub as an incubator is stale air. It does little good to have filters and holes in your lids if they all just vent into a sealed tub. Normal room temperature is fine for colonization of mycelium. Colonization speed peaks in the 75F to 81F range, and falls off dramatically above 83F. Stamets published a chart in one of his books that said 86F is the fastest for growth, and that is just plain wrong. COLONIZATION



*Normal room temperature is the way to colonize jars. People who build incubators have a higher rate of contamination and other problems and those who succeed only have a minor decrease in colonization times. 75F to 80F is perfect for colonizing, and you should be able to find a nice place in your house that has that temperature, such as a top cupboard shelf in your kitchen or an upper bookshelf in the den. Colonizing jars need gas exchange that they don't get in a sealed tub. INCUBATING/COLONIZATION



*A fan helps humans to cool off because it speeds up the evaporation of sweat from our skin. A fan will not make your jars any cooler at all because there are no sweat glands on glass. Find a cooler spot. That could be against the concrete floor in the garage or wherever. Placing your jars on a cookie sheet full of cold tap water should help bring the temp down as well. You could fill it just before you go to work and by the time the water heats to ambient, you'll be home to change it out with cool water again. Get creative. Just try to keep the temp in the low 80's or less. COLONIZATION



*Last year, while visiting my brother, I inoculated a bunch of jars for him, thinking he was actually interested. This was in December. I went back in February, and found he didn't have time to bother with them, so put them out in the garage. Temps outside were in the teens and twenties, and in the unheated garage, 30's to low 40's. The jars were fully colonized. I took them home and they fruited like mad. Low temps slow things down, but that's all. I keep master culture slants in the refrigerator for years. COLONIZATION STORY



*There is no need to keep them dark. I'd suggest tossing out that sweet looking incubation chamber and let them colonize on a bookshelf at 74F to 78F. Don't shake ANY jars at inoculation, and don't shake pf jars ever. I also don't buy into the turning them upside down thing either unless you made them too wet or they're water logged on the bottom. The CO2 exchanges just fine out the top during colonization via the air currents that are created by the heating that is caused by thermogenesis. COLONIZATION



*The science of mycology is progressing very fast, and what was written 25 years ago isn't necessarily accurate today. Perhaps if you got one of stamets' later works, you'd see he no longer uses that 84F to 86F figure, nor does he recommend incubating in total darkness. I take it a step farther by recommending against 'incubating' at all, having found over my 35+ years of experience that room temperature is the best compromise between speed of colonization, and contamination prevention. COLONIZATION



*81F should be considered the maximum 'good performance' ambient temperature in the colonization area for colonizing jars of mushroom mycelium. If your temp is higher than that, try finding a cooler place. Thermal death doesn't occur until much higher than that, but thermophilic molds and bacteria are encouraged at higher temperatures, and the 'rate of growth' of mushroom (cubensis) mycelium falls off sharply beginning at 83F. The oft-quoted figure of 86F is just plain wrong. COLONIZATION



*Wild swings in temperature cause air exchanges between the jars and the outside. If the changes are rapid, they can easily be too much for the filtering material, especially if only dry vermiculite is used. I don't recommend incubators, but find a nice room that holds at least to within five degrees or so. 75F to 81F is ideal. Above that, the returns are not worth the increased rate of contamination that will be experienced. COLONIZATION



*80 to 84 is way too hot to incubate grains. Any temp over 80 will favor molds and bacteria and not mushroom mycelium. One must bear in mind the mycelium produces heat as it grows. If your jars are in an environment of 84F, the inside temp will be over 90F. That reduces the growth of the mushroom mycelium and encourages bacteria. Always incubate grain jars at room temperature. Good luck! COLONIZATION



*Actually, from my experiments, rate of growth falls off rapidly above 83F with cubes. I've found fastest colonization temps to be in the 78F to 81F range (ambient temp). Temperatures above that will stimulate molds and thermophilic bacteria, while actually slowing down mushroom mycelium. A lower colonization temp will give you reduced contamination percentages. COLONIZATION



*My quart sized grain jars from agar wedges or grain-to-grain transfers are fully colonized in ten days to two weeks at normal room temp of 72F to 77F, depending on time of day. If it takes longer than that, something else is wrong. Higher temps slow down mycelium growth while stimulating competitor molds and bacteria. COLONIZATION



*86F is too hot. That figure comes from an error in Paul stamets TMC, which was corrected in later books. However, many growers only have TMC, thus refer to it as the bible, as if everything we've learned about mushroom growing since 1985 when artificial cultivation at home was in its infancy is void. COLONIZATION



*You can also freeze quart sized plastic bottles of water, and place them in your terrarium to absorb heat. If you can keep five or six in your freezer, you can rotate as necessary to keep one or two in the FC at all times during the hot months. COOLING COLONIZATION/FC



*Light has little to no effect on colonizing mycelium. I colonize all of my substrates in an open room exposed to ambient room light the whole time. Pinning only begins when fruiting conditions are introduced, other than when something goes wrong. COLONIZATION



*Foil should be removed as soon as they're sterilized. It's important to have gas exchange during colonization, so I don't put them in a box of any kind. My jars colonize on an open bookshelf at normal room temperature. COLONIZATION



*Get rid of the incubator, and put the jars on a shelf where they can receive normal room light during colonization. This will speed up pinset once you case them. (or birth or whatever) COLONIZATION IS FOR NOOBS



*Thus, any ambient temp over 81 for jars or 78 for trays of manure, and you're slowing down mycelium growth while promoting bacteria and thermophilic fungi. COLONIZATION



*Darkness is irrelevant to colonizing mycelium. Don't go over 81F. Room temperature is just fine as long as you keep your house t-shirt warm in winter. COLONIZATION



*80F is too hot for colonization of bulk substrates. The interior of your substrate is well over 90F when ambient is 80F. BULK SUBSTRATE COLONIZATION



*Mycelium growth slows down at 83F and above, so you're hindering growth with that incubator. Use room temperature COLONIZATION











GRAINS/JARS/LIDS/SOAKING/SHAKING /G2G











*When you use type or polyfill or synthetic filter disks (best) you drill three or four 1/8" (1mm) holes for gas exchange and screw the lid down tight. I use the lids upside down, so the metal is against the glass, but that is just to make them easier to get off later. The rubber tends to stick, making it a chore to lift the lid when you need to open the jar. The jar will always be at the same pressure as the rest of the PC, so there is no problem there. When I sterilize water or test tube slants, I screw the lid down tight with no filter or vent holes. It's not a problem, provided you don't ever pop the weight off the PC at the end of the cycle before pressure has returned slowly to zero on its own. JAR FILTERS



*Tyvek is functional and cheap or free. However, synthetic filter disks last for many years and thousands of uses. Tyvek tends to get ripped at the edges of the lid, often resulting in only one use. It can also twist, making the lid very hard to get off later for G2G or other procedures. The time spent cutting tyvek to shape each time will easily outweigh any cost advantage. Even though I sell tyvek on my website, I still prefer filter disks. FILTERS GRAINS



*Mycologists have used cotton filters at least since the 1930's. It's a proved filter material. The cotton must be kept totally dry, as must any filter material. Synthetic pillow stuffing is better, as are synthetic filter disks and/or tyvek. Coffee filters are for coffee. Using one as a contaminant barrier would be like trying to use a chain link fence as a mosquito barrier. FILTERS



*I think you should run an experiment and give us a report. It's so cheap, I toss it out after a use or two. One pair of XXXL coveralls will make over 200 filters. Synthetic filter disks, which are PFTE, can withstand bleach hundreds of times, which I know for a fact. FILTERS



*We filter our colonizing jars because sterile, uncolonized substrates will grow whatever lands on them. There is no reason or need to filter a fruiting chamber. Aquarium pumps and air stones will not deliver nearly enough air exchange for good results. FILTER



*In addition, trying to stop contaminants with a coffee filter is like trying to stop a bird with a barbed wire fence. Look at a coffee filter under a microscope. The holes in it are ten times or more the size of contaminant spores. COFFE FILTER GRAIN JARS



*First of all, trying to stop contaminants with a coffee filter is like trying to stop a mosquito with a barbed wire fence. Two coffee filters are like having two strands of barbed wire. Is that going to stop a mosquito??? COFFEE FILTER



*Trying to use coffee filters to stop bacteria and trich is like trying to catch a mosquito with a fish net. Isn’t going to work. COFFEE FILTERS AS BACTERIA PROTECTORS...HA



*If you're going to use micropore tape as a filter, use two layers. FILTER







*Actually, The tape is only for the sterilization cycle. After that, you can take it off because the dry vermiculite is the filter. Masking tape won't breath. The tape is simply to help keep water out of the holes. If you'll elevate the jars totally out of the water during sterilization, you don't need tape. Simply cover the lids with foil to prevent the condensation that drips off the lid of the kettle or pressure cooker from entering the holes. If you use medical tape such as micropore or other 'breathable' tape, you can leave it in place and inoculate right through it. TAPE



*Probably. The 'micropore' tape is a 3M product. I don't know if it's a trademarked name or not. I suspect breathable medical tape is going to be the same thing, whatever the brand. MICROPORE TAPE



*The tape goes on BEFORE sterilization. It has no purpose afterwards. It's to prevent water that gets under the foil from penetrating your jars during the sterilization process. MICRO PORE TAPE







*'Synthetic cotton' = 'polyfill' POLYFILL







*The bands are what hold the metal lid on. The lid itself isn't threaded with two-piece lid mason jars. You don't want the rye grains to come into contact with the filter disk. Be sure to put the metal lid on first with two 1/8" holes (1mm), then put the filter disk above that, then the metal ring goes on last. This way, when you shake the jars, the grain doesn't get the filter wet with grain juice. A wet filter is a vector for contaminants because they can colonize right through the interior of the filter. Be sure to keep your filter disks dry for best results. Use a glove box, and simply lift one side of the lid enough to squirt the solution in. Squirt it down the side of the glass. Do that in two or three places, then tighten lid. Be sure to use a glove box. SYNTHETIC FILTER DISK.



*I soak synthetic filter disks in a ten percent bleach solution for fifteen minutes before using. It's probably not necessary though since they'll be pc'd anyway on the next cycle. Bleach doesn’t hurt them. I have hundreds of synthetic filter disks that are well over ten years old and have yet to have a single one fail. SYNTHETIC FILTER DISKS



*They're the best filters you can get. Don't inoculate through them though. Use a glove box and simply lift the lid up and squirt under it. I have some that are six or seven years old and still being used after hundreds of times. SYNTHETIC FILTER DISKS GRAIN JARS



*Check a local chemical supply. The filter disks are made from PFTE and usually filter down to less than 1 micron. 90mm is a standard size. You might be able to find them from a local, non-mycology related source. SYNTHETIC FILTER DISKS



*You can't beat synthetic filter disks though. They're ten times thicker than tyvek and last a lifetime. I have some that have been through hundreds, perhaps thousands of cycles. SYNTHETIC FILTER DISKS



*Do NOT inject through a filter disk. If you use synthetic filter disks, you'll need to lift the filter up to squirt under it. Do this in a glove box, or in front of a flow hood. SYNTHETIC FILTER DISKS



*Synthetic filter disks are my favorite. I have some from the first batch I ever bought, ten years ago. I still use them after hundreds, if not thousands of times. SYNTHETIC FILTER DISKS



*They all work. My preference is synthetic filter disks because they can be used hundreds or even thousands of times. SYNTHETIC FILTER DISKS



*You need to use the lid under the disk. If you only use a filter disk, the grains will dry out before full colonization. SYNTHETIC FILTER DISKS





*Synthetic filter disks work great for LC, but as with all filters, be sure to keep it dry. SYNTHETIC FILTER DISKS







*A single layer of good tyvek should be enough. Don't put cotton in the middle of a tyvek sandwich or it will get damp and ruin your day. Use kite tyvek or tyvek from a set of coveralls. Don't use three layers unless you have a lot of holes in the lid. You'll cut off the gas exchange. I drill four 1/8" holes, and use two layers of tyvek, both on the outside of the lid so they stay dry. TYVEK



*I've used tyvek coveralls for filter material many times. I doubt that's your problem. Tyvek is used for safety coveralls because it allows the person's sweat vapor to escape, while still providing protection from the toxins. TYVEK GRAIN JARS



*Don't use post office tyvek for anything but mailing. It's a violation of federal law. Go to your local home mega center, and in the paint department, they'll have tyvek coveralls for five or six bucks. Get a few of those to cut up. TYVEK



*Actually, the tyvek goes over the lid, not under it. You want the tyvek on the outside so it stays dry. Put down the lid with small holes in it first, the tyvek second, and lastly the ring to hold it all in place. TYVEK GRAIN JARS



*Not only will they dry out that way, they'll cause premature pinning by providing air exchange, as opposed to just gas exchange. You need to at least tape over 90% of the tyvek with duct or shipping tape. TYVEK LIDS



*Go to your local home mega center and get tyvek coveralls from the paint department to cut up and use as filters. Post office tyvek is not only illegal to use but subpar as far as performance goes. TYVEK



*Post office tyvek is thinner and not as effective at stopping contaminants as the multi-ply, much thicker tyvek used in wrist sleeves and coveralls. TYVEK



*The tyvek should be OUTside the lids. If you put the tyvek inside the jar, you'll have a much higher contamination ratio. TYVEK



*Tyvek coveralls, wrists leaves are washing machine safe. TYVEK



*http://www.intothewind.com/sear ch

KITE SUPPLY STORE. TYVEK







*I've scanned my crops and colonizing jars and substrate bags with an IR camera and noticed up to five degree F increase in quart jars of rye, and up to a 15F degree increase over ambient when shooting at large gusseted spawn bags, but that was 15F over ambient at the edge of the bag. I'm sure the center was hotter. I usually have up to 200 spawn bags colonizing at any given time on shelves in my grow room, and I never heat it, even in the coldest months of winter. The temperature in the room rarely drops below 75F, even when it's freezing outdoors. We use minimal heat in the rest of the condo as well, simply leaving the grow room door open is enough to supply most of the heat we use. COLONIZING JARS/BAGS



*Don't flip jars. As prisoner said, it screws up the vermiculite filter. CO2 doesn't need to 'drain' out by flipping the jar upside down. That's a bit of disinformation that once typed refuses to die. The reason is the heat produced by the mycelium causes circulation that takes care of the gas exchange. FLIPPING JARS PF/GRAINS



*When you examine them, don't turn them upside down. That can cause the vermiculite barrier to shift. You can expect there to be contaminant spores near the air/inoculation holes, and if you shift the jar around, those mold spores can be shifted down and into the substrate, contaminating it. FLIPPING JARS PF/GRAINS



*Bear in mind, a substrate on the dry side will colonize faster than an overly wet one, so if your jars didn't colonize, something else might be wrong. It's also a good idea in a dry climate to run a humidifier in the room your grow is located to raise the ambient humidity. COLONIZING JARS



*The moisture comes from condensation on the lid of the pressure cooker that constantly rains down on the jars below. That's the reason for the foil. I'd start over and get it right. Don't waste spores getting off on the wrong foot. COLONIZATION/INCUBATING GRAIN JARS



*Cakes often pin on the bottom because that's where the moisture runs to by gravity and also it's closer to the perlite, thus the humidity is higher and stimulates pinning. PF CAKES



*Grains colonize much faster when prepared on the dry side. I do it that way by design. If you see visible moisture on the surface of the grains, they're too wet. COLONIZATION



*Most often, if a cased substrate smells of alcohol. Some fermentaion has, or is taking place. GRAINS/SUBSTRATE



*If the mycelium runs out of O2, it will stall and die. COLONIZING JARS







*One should never use a jar that isn't at least 100% colonized for a grain-to-grain transfer. The biggest reason is that since sterilization is a relative term, it's never complete. You have a window of opportunity to get your grains colonized before the contaminants that survived pressure-cooking come back to haunt you. If you grain to grain with uncolonized grains, you add their age to the age of all the grains in the receiving jar, possibly contaminating them all. The difference between 100% colonization and 80% colonization should be no more than two days, so don't risk failure for a measly 48 hours. G2G TRANSFERS



*Bang the colonized jar against a tire or phone book to separate the kernels. Next, open each freshly sterilized rye jar one at a time, and pour and twist from the grain master to deliver a small amount into each receiving jar. Try to have the receiving jars open for no more than five seconds, so plan ahead and work fast. Clean all jars with alcohol before opening. Wear latex gloves and wash them with alcohol after putting them on. As said above, use a glove box, or even better of course is a laminar flow hood. Good luck. SPAWNING G2G



*It was ANNO that pointed out - young vigorous mycelium does better than old. However, I have gone out 5 G2G transfer generations - without ill effect. Genetics plays a part in it. In nature - mycelium is designed to grow out & fruit in one season. You can FOOL with Mother Nature - but extending it to far out - usually brings on some mutation. G2G GENERATIONS



*When you do a g2g, unscrew the ring, then with your thumb and forefinger, squeeze the ring so you capture the lid and the filter and lift all three as one unit. Pour from the donor jar to the open receiving jar, and then replace the lid as one unit. Have the receiving jar open for no more than a few seconds when doing this. G2G TRANSFERS



*I shake the master jar to loosen the kernels, and then do the g2g right away. After the transfer, gently shake the receiving jar, and then shake again at 20 to 30 percent colonization. I never wait for the grains to recover before shaking or g2g. They'll recover right into the fresh grains of the receiving jar. Good luck. G2G TRANSFERS



*Four grain-to-grain transfers should be considered the outside limit, but chances are you'll see growth slow before then anyway. Cloning from the third would make it the fourth, and wouldn't help. Go back to spores. A given cell line can only divide so many times before loss of vigor sets in. G2G TRANSFERS



*Never use a jar that pins early for grain-to-grain transfers. Usually, something is the trigger for early pinning, such as bacterial contamination. I know you don't g2g brf jars, but had it been a grain jar, you wouldn't want to use if for transfers. G2G TRANSFERS



*You can generally use a fully colonized grain jar to inoculate up to ten times that amount of sterilized grains. How many bags per jar simply depends on what size spawn bag you used, and what size jars your grains are in. G2G TRANSFERS



*Fastest colonization I ever had is with G2G. LC_> G2G









*I disagree with more than one shake during colonization. A shake at 20% to 40% will spread those kernels around, ensuring the rest is colonized within a few days. After shaking, there's a 24 to 48 hour period where the mycelium is merely trying to recover from damage, but isn't growing into the new grains. If you shake more than once, you force the mycelium to waste needless energy re-knitting, when it could be aggressively growing. The same applies at the end. Shake to loosen the grains, and then spawn them to your tray of manure or straw, etc. Let them recover directly into the manure or casing layer. If you shake, then allow to recover, they're damaged again by spawning, so must recover yet again. My point is that shaking is abusive, but a necessary abuse. Simply keep it to a minimum. SHAKING GRAIN JARS



*From my tests, it actually slows down colonization, by forcing monokaryons to reach out farther before finding a compatible mate. Dikaryons colonize and feed much faster than monokaryons. By shaking, you disperse the ungerminated spores over a larger area. I prefer to inject, and then let the jars or bags sit for several days until you see germination, or if you inoculate with an agar wedge, wait until the mycelium has moved off the wedge and into the grains before shaking. If you do the above, only one shake is required during the whole process. SHAKING GRAIN JARS



*When you shake a jar, it will 'look' uncolonized for a few days until it recovers. You only need to shake once at 20% to 30% colonization. Your second and fourth jar above look about done. Give them a few days past full colonization before spawning to bulk. The third jar needs a few days. They'll all look like the first jar after shaking. That's normal. Shake just before spawning by banging the jar against a tire, and then layer into your manure or whatever you're using as bulk. The mycelium on the grains will recover right into the substrate. SHAKING GRAIN JARS



*You need to break it up at 20% to spread the mycelium around so it can inoculate the rest of the rye. It will speed colonization up. If the mycelium fails to recover after breaking it up, it means the grains were contaminated anyway. Read up on 'shaking'. That's what we do with rye grain jars. I use a bicycle tire to bang the jar against to break it up. With bags, simply massage the bag between your fingers to break up the clumps and spread them around the bag. SHAKING GRAIN JARS



*If you shook right after inoculation, it will be fuzzy at first. I suggest inoculating and NOT shaking for at least a week. By shaking, you spread the spores around, forcing monokaryotic mycelium to hunt for a mate. If you let the spores germinate right next to each other, they form bonds and become dikaryotic in the first few days after germination, and then grow with the thicker, rhizomorphic mycelium. SHAKING GRAIN JARS



*Shaking right after inoculation is a mistake. You should allow the spores to germinate in close proximity to each other so they can pair up and become dikaryotic. Monokaryotic mycelium is thinner and much slower growing than dikaryotic mycelium. By shaking the jar, you required it to colonize with the slower growing monokaryons. SHAKING GRAIN JARS



*The best way to break up a grain jar is to beat the hell out of it against a fully inflated tire. I use a bicycle tire and air it up nice and hard before use. Half a dozen bangs usually separates every kernel from every other kernel. If not, it's a good sign your jar was contaminated with bacteria, which makes the kernels stick together like rubber. SHAKING GRAIN JARS



*Grains should NOT be shaked after inoculation with spores. Monokaryotic mycelium grows far slower than dikaryotic mycelium. It's best to inject the spores and leave them to pair up in close proximity to each other. Once they pair up and become dikaryotic, shake once to distribute the grains, which speeds up colonization. SHAKING GRAIN JARS



*Grains should only be shaken once during colonization. More than that slows down progress. Shake at anywhere from 15% to 30%. The grains will begin to show recovery by 24 hours, and by 48 hours, things should be growing rapidly again. You'll have to shake again after full colonization to remove the grains. SHAKING GRAINS



*If the grains don't break up easily when banged against a tire, it's a good sign that they're contaminated with bacteria. It is even more likely since you're using an incubator. Grain jars; especially quarts should never be placed in an incubator, but rather allowed to colonize at normal room temperature. SHAKING GRAIN JARS



*Colonized grain jars break apart very easily by banging against a fully inflated bike tire, and you NEVER want to scoop out grains. It damages the kernels, leaving them open for bacteria, and adds an additional vector of contamination to the process. SHAKING COLONIZED GRAIN JARS



*Never hold a jar in one hand while holding a camera in the other. That doubles the amount of shaking going on, screwing up the picture. Put the jar down. Rest the camera on a chair, book, or something else if you don't have a tripod. SHAKING



*Shaking always makes them look 'uncolonized' because it beats the mycelium on the surface of the grain. After a few days, as you found out, they recover. You should only shake a grain jar once at 25 to 35 percent colonized. SHAKING



*There is no need to shake more than once. Three times is mycelium abuse. Please continue the same thread for ideas along the same lines. Don't start a new thread with each question. SHAKING GRAINS COLONIZING



*Shake at about the 25% stage. Shaking prior to that only batters the myc & then it takes time to heal & start growing again. You ever hand a black eye? How long did it take to heal? SHAKING GRAIN JARS



*Grain jars shouldn't be filled more than 2/3 to 3/4 full to allow room for shaking. If you'll bang the jars against a fully inflated bicycle tire, the kernels will separate easily. SHAKING GRAIN JARS



*A quart jar of healthy mycelium on rye that is shaken at 25% will be completely colonized three to four days later. If not, something is wrong. SHAKING



*Shake jars well at 20% to 30% colonized to spread the grains around. They're usually fully colonized four to five days later. SHAKING GRAIN JARS



*Remember, when things look fine until you shake, then don't recover, it's almost always bacteria. SHAKING GRAINS



*Shake, and if it recovers it's fine. If not, it was contaminated. SHAKING GRAIN JARS



Edited by dumbfounded1600 (06/01/08 10:29 PM)



Post Extras: dumbfounded1600





Registered: 07/30/07

Posts: 2,624 StrangerRegistered: 07/30/07 Re: All Of RR's Notes On Mushroom Cultivation Forum [Re: dumbfounded1600] 2

#8468466 - 06/01/08 03:39 AM (12 years, 3 months ago) Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply









*I really hate to disagree, but it's best to not shake at all just after inoculation. Leave the spore solution all in one spot so the monokaryons can find compatible hyphae nearby and do the sex thing. Once you have solid white mycelium growing, those are the dikaryons and they grow much faster than the wispy, grayish monokaryons that emerge from the spores. Many new growers mistake these for cobweb mold and toss out perfectly good projects because they shake at inoculation. If you shake the bag or jar early, you force the slow growing monokaryons to colonize much more of the substrate before finding a mate, thus slowing down the progress. I'd recommend giving the first and only shake at 30% colonization. SPAWN BAGS



*Actually, grains have been found better for mycelium storage than agar slants, but unfortunately take way too much room in the refrigerator. However, I've used jars that have been stored fully colonized in the refrigerator for several years. Put them in the refrigerator at full colonization, and then when you remove from the refrigerator, allow three to five days at room temperature before spawning. STORING GRAINS/PETRIS



*In the overwhelming majority of cases when a jar stalls, it's due to lack of gas exchange. Make sure the holes are open on the lids. If you have a vermiculite barrier, you can loosen the lids or even remove them for a time. Jars rarely dry out. STALLED GRAIN JARS



*You can store colonized grains in the refrigerator, or use them for grain-to-grain transfers to expand your mycelium. Correct, removing jars from the refrigerator requires a couple of days of warm up before they start growing again. GRAINS STORING



*Make thin layers so they fill in the gaps quickly. I've found this has less of a chance of breaking kernels of grain spawn, which can allow contaminants to get a foothold in the uncolonized part in the middle. SPAWNING



*They don't 'stall' without a reason. Either it ran out of air due to no holes for gas exchange, or it's contaminated with bacteria. You can't spawn uncolonized grains or the bulk is sure to contaminate. STALLING JARS



*Unless it's a HUGE bag, don't use over three to five ml of spore solution or liquid. More than that will be too much and throw off your moisture content. SPAWN BAGS



*They can sit for a couple of weeks at normal room temperature after full colonization without harm. STORING GRAIN JARS











*Use twice as much grass seed by volume as water. For a 1-quart jar, use 1 1/4-cup rye grass seed, and 5/8-cup water. Add a pinch of gypsum between your thumb and forefinger per jar. Put a solid lid on the jar and shake well. Allow to sit for an hour or two, and then shake again. Replace the solid lid with a filtered lid, and PC for an hour at 15 psi. Rye grass seed makes an excellent grain master, because you can easily do a grain-to-grain transfer into 20 jars. I won't go over ten jars with rye berries. It's also a great spawn to bulk substrates, because of all the inoculation points. It also seems less susceptible to trichoderma then the larger rye berries. We usually don't recommend it to new growers because it often takes quite a few tries to get the moisture right. If it's too wet, the mycelium can't colonize. Ditto if it's too dry. The above plan should work out for you though. RYE GRASS SEED



*Rye grass seed needs to be mixed with half as much water by volume as you have grass seed. For a quart jar, I use 1 1/4 cup of grass seed, and 5/8 cup of water. Add a pinch of gypsum between your thumb and forefinger per jar. Half the amount of water can be substituted with brewed coffee. I put a solid lid on the jar after mixing and shake well. Allow to sit over night, and then shake again. Replace the solid lid with a filtered lid and PC for an hour at 15psi. RYE GRASS SEED



*It's irrelevant. I bring rye to a raging boil after the 24-hour soak, with the stove on 'high', and have ZERO busted kernels. As shown in the video, rinse grains very well with hot tap water before the soak. Fill the kettle with hot tap water to begin the soak. Add gypsum. After 24 hours, bring to a raging boil for five to ten minutes, then drain and shake. I've never seen more than one kernel in a thousand busted when following the above. PREARING RYE



*After a 24-hour soak, I once accidentally left the water in a rapid boil for nearly an hour. There were no burst kernels and they weren't any fatter than they'd have been after a ten-minute boil. I used them and they were fine. The secret against cracked kernels is to soak the grains first, and then to heat the water and grains together slowly. RYE GRAIN



*Rye grass seed is also excellent for spawning to bulk, and very cheap too. It's a bit trickier to prepare, but goes a long way when used for grain to grain transfers or for spawning to bulk substrates. RYE GRASS SEED



*I doubt you can get grass seed to fruit, although it makes excellent spawn. You want rye grain. Copes need the grains to be spawned into manure. RYE GRASS SEED VS RYE BERRIES



*I gave up on wbs due to the inconsistent types of seed in it. It works, but rye is much better and only costs about 5 cents per quart jar if you buy it in 25 pound bags. WBS



*If you simmer rye grass seed, you will ruin it. Soak only. RYE GRASS SEED









*If the bottoms didn't colonize due to bacterial contamination, it will have no effect. If the jars didn't colonize due to excessive moisture that ran to the bottom, it will help, by draining it to the other end of the jar. Some growers think flipping upside down is to release CO2, but this is incorrect. The heat produced by the mycelium produces circulation that does that job. I've never yet had a jar that wouldn't colonize the bottom, provided it was made correctly to begin with, using the proper amount of water AND the correct jars, which you don't have. BRF cakes do best in short fat jars, such as wide mouth half-pints. FLIPPING JARS



*The biggest cause of failure with pf tek is not following proper sterile procedure. You the cultivator are the biggest single source of contamination, so be very careful. Thousands of bacteria are exhaled from your mouth with every breath, so wear a surgical mask. Millions of bacteria reside under your fingernails, so wear gloves, and wash them with alcohol before use. Use a glove box, and flame the needle of your syringe red hot before use. Alcohol might clean the outside of the needle, but contaminants can enter into the center of the needle and not be touched by the alcohol. PF TEK JARS



*In addition, your order of assembling the lids is incorrect. You want the metal lid with holes first (make the holes no more than 1/8"), followed by the filter material, then the ring. This keeps your filter on the outside of the jar where condensation doesn't get it wet. Remember, if your filter gets wet, you're screwed. Bacteria in the air will colonize right through the material as if it wasn't even there. The reason for making the holes in the lid small is so that when you shake, the wet grains don't contact your filter material. A wet, nutrient saturated filter is sure to contaminate. LIDS GRAINS



*Actually, half a teaspoon of bleach in a gallon of water will kill bacteria, but it throws the pH way off, so I don't recommend it at all, especially in grain jars, which prefer an acidic pH. I wouldn't inject water into a grain jar. If they're drying out, chances are, your gas exchange holes are too big. You don't want more than four 1/8" (3mm) holes. You could even get by with smaller holes. I use four 3/32" (2.4mm) holes for both 1/2-pint pf cakes and full quart grain jars. Larger holes can dry out the material and encourage invitro pinning. GRAIN JARS



*Quart jars are best suited for grains in my experience. Anything less, and there just isn't enough spawn for your bulk substrate. Due to the requirement to leave shaking room, a pint jar can hold more grains than two 1/2 pint jars, and a quart jar can hold more grains than two pint jars. Half-gallon jars are nice, but they really should be colonized at a 45-degree angle to help with gas exchange. I've had a lot of trouble with CO2 concentrations when leaving 1/2-gallon jars standing upright. GRAIN JAR SIZES



*If you'll drill two or three small, 1/16" holes in the metal lid, the grains will never touch the filter when you shake. A fully inflated bicycle tire works great for banging jars against to break them up. Just make sure you have the tire pumped up nice and hard. GRAIN JAR LID



*I recommend using four 1/8" holes for gas exchange. If you use more than that, you run a risk of drying out your grains and/or stimulating pinning inside the jar due to having too much air exchange, as opposed to a small amount of gas exchange. GRAIN JAR LIDS



*As said, you soak for bacteria, not molds. If it turned green without opening, then plain and simple, your filter is not doing its job. Look for tears. Is it post office tyvek? If so, that could be the problem. I don't consider it suitable for mycology. GRAIN JARS



*A 1/2" hole in the lid is way too much for a small jar. In fact, with quart jars, I only use three to four 1/16" holes for gas exchange. A large hole will not only dry out your grains, but can lead to pinning before full colonization. GRAIN JARS



*My experience with half gallon and larger jars is they need to be incubated at an angle of 45 degrees to allow for gas exchange. They get stagnant standing upright with the lid/filter only on top. HALF-GALLON MASON JARS



*Rusty Lids: It's harmless to the mushrooms and to you if eaten. Just don't cut your finger on the rusty lid. Lockjaw sucks. RUSTY LIDS



*Use 1 ml total for a 1/2-pint cake. PF CAKE JAR







*The above posts prove there are many ways to skin the proverbial cat. The important thing is to have the grains at twice their original dry size, with no burst kernels and no excess moisture in the jars.

After a 24-hour soak, the grains are fully hydrated, but personally, I boil for a few minutes after the soak for one reason-It allows the grains to steam off the excess moisture from the surface as the rest of the water drains in the colander. By shaking the colander, the grains release the excess moisture as steam.

Experienced growers are all successful and most have evolved their own tek for preparing the grains. As long as your grains seem dry on the outside, and are twice the original size without burst kernels, they are ready for the pressure cooker, regardless of how one goes about reaching that point. Some growers even dry the grains off with a towel.

I would say to any new grower to read the way the experienced cultivators do things and try a few ways. After you pressure cook your product, don't hesitate to toss it out without inoculating if things don't look right, and start over. Try, and then try again until you get it right. Once you find a method that works for you, stick with it.

Good luck. SIMMER OR NOT TO SIMMER



*It's really not about jars breaking, although sometimes they will. Here is the reason: At 15psi, the temperature in your PC and inside the jars is 250F. If you quick cool the PC, the substrate or whatever is in your jars is still at 250F, but now the pressure is gone. As we all know, water boils at 212f at sea level pressure. That means that the moisture in your jars will boil off. It will continue to boil off until the temperature of the substrate cools below 212F. There's an excellent chance that you will have destroyed the moisture content you worked hard to get right before sterilization. If you quick cool with bags, the filter won't expel the steam fast enough, so the bags inflate and burst, spilling whatever is in them. When the instructions say you can quick cool, you must bear in mind they don't build PC's for mushroom growers. They build them for kitchen food use. JARS PRESSURE COOKER



*Lids tight. If they're loose, there's a chance that contaminants will be drawn into the jar as the PC cools at the end of the cycle. Air in the jar won't expand and need to escape because the air in the pressure cooker is under the same pressure, thus it's equalized. It's best to let steam escape for a few minutes before placing the weight on or closing the toggle if it's a sterilizer, but don't let it go too long. Anytime steam is escaping from the PC, it's also letting moisture escape from your jars. If the PC is blowing steam wildly, it's also blowing steam wildly from your jars, possibly blowing the filter material and/or drying out your grains. This is the reason you never want to pop the weight off at the end of the cycle to let the steam out. PCING GRAIN JARS



*One should never release pressure immediately after the cycle. The very rapid cool down from 250F to 212F while the grains or other substrate inside of the jars is still 250F will cause many jars to break. Furthermore, water at 250F must be under pressure to exist in the liquid state. Therefore, when you release pressure, you also release moisture from the substrate. That is a fact of physics. It can be made up for by adding more water to begin with, but now you're forced to figure out how much is going to be lost. That is beyond the reach of the new folks trying to learn so many other facets of the hobby. It's far better to tell them to NOT release pressure early to remove one more variable from the equation. RELEASING PRESSURE PC GRAINS



*Jars should be inoculated as soon as possible after sterilization. I wish people would quit saying the jars need to cool past the point when they're cool to the touch. They do NOT stay warm on the inside of the jar longer than the outside by more than a few minutes at most. The water permeates every part of a grain or brf jar, and water is an excellent heat transferrer. If the jar itself is cool to the touch, then the insides will be also, and that includes the middle. Think about it. If you have a cup of coffee get cold from sitting out too long, it isn't still hot in the center. PRESSURE COOKING JARS



*LOL the soak / simmer thing is something we all go through. My experience with "simmering" grains almost always led to mushy - sticky grains & on occasion - wet spot contamination - in jars. I prefer WBS because of its low cost & availability - everywhere. No simmer is necessary with WBS. Just experimenting around, I have supplemented WBS spawn with rye (5 % per batch), rape seed (5%) & cracked corn (5%) & had great results. NO NEED TO SIMMER



*PC'ing does not remove water from the grains unless you screw up and pop the weight off at the end of the cycle to let steam out. In addition, grains prepared on the dry side will colonize much faster than wet grains. PCING GRAINS



*Attempting to make your mycelium colonize busted kernels is like trying to get your car to drive cross-country on two flat tires-possible, but not recommended for good performance and speed. BURSTED KERNALS



*I recommend 120 minutes for quart jars of grains to take care of bacteria. STERILIZING GRAINS











*If you soak overnight, with the soak beginning in hot tap water, you can boil the grains for an hour or two and the kernels won't bust. They also won't take on any more water. Once the kernel is saturated, it doesn't absorb any more, no matter how long you boil. After the soak, add hot tap water to the soak water if necessary to fill the kettle as full as you can before placing on the stove. Heat to boiling, and then after several minutes, pour the water off. Shake the colanders so the steam can evaporate off the kernels, drying them. That's the main purpose of the boil, besides killing the germinated bacteria before pouring it down the drain. It also gives the grains sort of a pre-sterilization prior to the PC cycle. Don't skip the gypsum. It's worth a trip to the nursery. SOAKING GRAINS



*I soak anywhere from 4 to 24 hours. It really doesn't make much difference. The grains are only going to absorb so much, so you'll never over-hydrate by boiling. After a few hours to overnight soak, I let the pot boil for five to ten minutes, then drain into the colander. The steam that evaporates off the grains will dry the outside while the water runs down the drain. If you'll toss the colander around with the grains a few times to make them steam off, they're ready to load in twenty minutes. Gypsum serves two purposes. It adds calcium and sulfur, both essential mushroom nutrients, and helps prevent the grains from sticking and clumping up. SOAKING GRAINS



*18 / 24 hour soak is a must do thing. Long a soak as possible, so long as WBS doesn’t ferment (smell very badly), sprout, or rot is best. No simmer needed. If you have some aged / leached / steer / horse manure around, either brew some into tea, or add softball size handful into a nylon stocking (doubled up - several times)& add cup of strained tea, or use nylon stocking bag - like tea bag & leave it in the soak & stir halfway through soak. Adds significant N to soak water, which WBS absorbs & myc loves. You will get bigger better - everything. SOAKING GRAINS



*Use weak liquid coffee to soak your grains AFTER rinsing them in hot tap water. Rinse before the soak, not after. Once you've soaked in water or weak coffee, bring the soak water to a boil with the rye in it. It's all described in the tek posted above, and also on the video. I've used coffee grinds in grains, but there's little benefit. It's better as a substrate ingredient. GRAINS COFFEE SOAK



*It would be a waste to use peroxide in the soak water for two reasons. One, you want the bacterial endospores to germinate and grow during the soak, so the pressure cooker can kill them. Two, peroxide breaks down very fast in the presence of organic materials, so it would likely do nothing at all anyway. It would be long gone by the time you boil. GRAIN SOAK PEROXIDE



*I suggest a bit of hydrated lime if you're soaking in weak coffee, due to the acidity of the coffee. Use no more than a teaspoon for 2 gallons of soak water. If you're soaking in plain water, skip the lime. Use one tablespoon of gypsum per gallon of soak water, regardless of how much grains are in it. GRAINS SOAKING



*Yes. Mix it weak. About half or less the normal drinking strength. Add it hot. Use hot water for the rinse and add hot coffee later. The heat prevents the grains from germinating during the soak. COFFEE SOAKING GRAINS



*As I said above, it isn't necessary to use long soak times with rye or wbs. If rye is used/PC'd before it starts to ferment, I actually like the scent. GRAINS SOAKING



*Yes. I add coffee to grains, partly to lower the pH. Mushroom mycelium grows fastest at pH about 5.5 to 6.5. COFFEE SOAK



*If you use too much coffee, it will actually slow down growth. COFFEE SOAK









*I found no problems when using banrot, and the fruits came out normal. It seems I used 1 tablespoon of Banrot 40WP per five gallons of soak water, but that could probably be reduced. Banrot will prevent fungi spores from germinating, but doesn't affect mycelium. It also seems to prevent bacteria. I once left a freshly sterilized jar of rye berries exposed to the open air for half an hour or so, then closed it up and a month later, it was still contaminant free. However, good sterile procedure renders it unnecessary for grains, and while soaking casing material in it will prevent trich and cobweb, proper pasteurization and good air exchange will also prevent mold on casing layers. I prefer growing without chemicals and am generally an organic gardener. The Banrot experiments were simply experiments. Dried and crushed Rhododendron leaves will also help prevent trichoderma and cobweb in casing layers. FUNGICIDES FOR GRAINS/CASINGS









*You boiled the rye, but not the millet? Then mixed the two? That gives you two different grains with different levels of hydration. Draining for an hour does nothing. All the water that will drain out from a batch of rye does so within 1 minute. The water that is stuck to the surface of the grains, will make them too wet later. You need to drain after the simmer while the grains are still boiling hot, so you can let the steam dry on the surface. Avoid busted kernels at all costs. None is best. If you have more than just a few, do the batch over. If you've soaked, beginning in HOT tap water, there should be no busted kernels after boiling because they will have softened up. Did you leave the stove on high during the process? If so, your jars probably puked out all the moisture that was in the grains. You're supposed to turn down the stove as soon as the weight rattles. Turn it down so the weight either doesn't rattle at all, or rattles once every few minutes at most. Every time the weight rattles, moisture leaves the PC, and a corresponding amount of moisture leaves each jar of grains. That is basic physics. GRAINS



*One of the secrets of grain preparation, regardless of which grain, is to rinse the kernels very well before continuing with whatever preparation tek you're going to use. All grains get packaged with a lot of chaff and grain dust that if not rinsed out will cause the grains to stick together later and cause that sticky goo. Put your dry grains in a large kettle and fill with water as you stir it around. You'll see all the dust and other crap come floating up. Slowly dump out the water to get rid of the junk and repeat two more times or until the water pours off clear. Adding gypsum is also a great idea. It will take anyone a few tries to get the moisture content right, regardless of which grain or which tek you follow. If it's too wet this time, make adjustments next time, and so on until you work out your system. GRAINS PREPARATION



*The biggest reason for clumped up grains is the failure to rinse properly BEFORE soaking/simmering/sterilization. Rinse the dry grains so the dry chaff and dust and other debris can rise to the top and be poured off. Give two or three rinses and your grains will be clean and free of the dust that behaves like glue later. The second biggest reason for clumping is failure to use gypsum. If the grains are properly rinsed, and gypsum is added, they will NOT stick together later, even if you let them sit in the pc until they reach room temperature. GRAINS



*I strongly disagree with mixing vermiculite in grain jars. If you have excess moisture, it will soak it up. If you have the correct moisture, it will screw it up by making the grains too dry. The trick is to learn to get the right moisture content. Grains should be totally dry on the surface before loading jars. That's all. It's simple. The moisture inside the grains is what you want. Either use a towel to dry after draining, or drain the grains after a simmer, and toss them around in the strainer so the steam can dry the surface. GRAINS



*Make sure if you get rye from a feed store that it hasn't been treated with fungicides if you plan direct inoculation with spores. Many times, feed grain is treated with fungicides to prolong storage life in damp barns. If you inoculate with agar wedges or LC, the fungicides won't hurt because they only stop spores from germinating. Personally, I only use certified organic rye berries, obtained from a health food bulk supplier. It costs me $8.75 for a 25-pound bag, but it's worth the extra cost, imo. GRAINS



*As said above, prepare you rye properly and don't dilute it with vermiculite. That's a bogus tek to help beginners get away with being sloppy. In addition, because the vermiculite soaks up the excess water, you never learn to prepare grains properly. It's sort of like never taking the training wheels off your bike. They'd look pretty silly on a Harley someday. GRAINS PREPERATION



*99% is not 100%, and you have no idea if the center of the jars was colonized or not. Uncolonized grains exposed to air = contamination. They should not smell earthy; they should smell like fresh mushrooms. The earthy smell in grains indicates trichoderma or other molds, so there's always the possibility they were already contaminated. GRAINS



*It's because fungus grows better on damp things than on wet things. The grains aren't really dry when properly prepared, they just 'look' dry. That allows the most amount of air in the spaces around the grains, thus favoring the mushroom mycelium over bacteria, which prefer a wetter, more anaerobic environment. GRAIN WATER CONTENT



*It's normal to see what appears to be uncolonized grains where they are pushed up tight against the glass. If that's all it is, they're good to go. Also, sometimes there's foreign material in the grains, so you might even be looking at a small rock or something. GRAINS



*I boil in the water they soak in. The main reason for that is to kill off the live bacteria in the soak water before you pour it down your drain. The soak water can make for a pretty stinky kitchen sink drain if you don't boil it before pouring off. PREPARING GRAIN



*Also, dumping grains into already boiling water as shown there is a mistake that often leads to burst kernels. Grains should be placed in cold water and slowly brought to a boil, or preferably soaked 24 hours to hydrate. GRAINS



*What causes spores to clump up is all that grit, dirt, and dust in their if you don't soak. GRAINS



Edited by dumbfounded1600 (06/01/08 10:31 PM)



Post Extras: dumbfounded1600





Registered: 07/30/07

Posts: 2,624 StrangerRegistered: 07/30/07 Re: All Of RR's Notes On Mushroom Cultivation Forum [Re: dumbfounded1600] 1

#8468472 - 06/01/08 03:41 AM (12 years, 3 months ago) Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply

PART 1 OF 3 CASING







CASING/FC/C02/HUMIDITY/CAKES/OUT DOOR/SOAKING/MISTING











*A casing should be a non-nutritious top layer that is placed over a colonized substrate to help induce pinning and to supply moisture to the substrate and the developing fruits. You can use others with nutrition but it's best not to as this will cause overlay if your not careful. A casing of 50% Peat Moss, 40% Vermiculite, 10% Coco Coir is something called CAC' which some commercial growers use. This is fine but once again you have to watch it or it can colonize the casing for being nutrition and what's the point of a casing if it fully colonizes? With uncased substrate, wait for full colonization, and then place in the fruiting chamber. Try to keep humidity at 99%, since uncased substrates should be treated as cakes. Remember, when using a casing layer, we keep the humidity a bit lower to allow some evaporation from the casing, which is replaced by daily misting. A piece of wax paper layed loosely over the uncased substrate will help produce a micro-climate conducive to fruiting, but remember that even though it helps, wax paper is no substitute for a genuine casing layer. Incubate until you see mycelium coming up through about 20 to 30 percent of the casing layer. Sprinkle fresh casing material over that mycelium which is showing (That's what we call patching) and place in the FC. The best casing mix is 50% Peat, 50% Vermiculite, 10% gypsum, Teaspoon per cup of peat of Hydrated Lime. Mix the dry ingredients very well, then slowly bring to field moisture level and pasteurize. Also you can use jiffy mix as all it is Peat/Vermiculite/Lime treated but I see it less valuable as just making your own buying a block of peat moss/vermiculite/hydrated lime/gypsum and not having to deal with other shit or pasteurize. Sunshine Mix #3 also works though. The reason we use lime is to raise the pH and to make the casing layer inhospitable to competitor fungi, which are less tolerant of a high pH than established mushroom mycelium. Gypsum is not used to change pH. Gypsum contains both calcium carbonate and sulfur, thus it tends to keep the pH near neutral, preventing swings as the metabolites try to push the pH down. Calcium carbonate or hydrated lime is not used to counter the effect of the metabolites. As said above, that's what the gypsum does. Use gypsum on substrates such as compost or horse manure, but don't use lime. Save the lime for the casing mix, where you should use gypsum and lime together. Gypsum is added to help keep the kernels separated after sterilization and to provide calcium and sulfur, basic elements promoting mushroom metabolism. Using both these will keep contaminants at bay. What you want is a short term (Hydrated Lime) because the life of a casing is measured in weeks instead of months or years. Use hydrated lime to get the ph right at the start, and use gypsum at a rate of ten percent to the peat in your casing to prevent ph swings later. Pickling lime is hydrated lime. It's my favorite, and many commercial grow operations DO use it. Don't use limestone; limestone is for long-term use, such as in a garden. Casings, which flush for a month or so, do not need long-term ph adjustment. They need short term, therefore hydrated lime is what you would want to use. The most critical time for contaminants to enter a casing is during the initial colonization and first flush stages. Once the layer is fully colonized, it's very contaminant resistant. This is why we use Lime/Gypsum. A common contaminant that occurs in casings is the 'Cobweb Mold' which isn't toxic just very annoying that thrives in old stale air. You can melt this using 3% peroxide over the casing. It will not hurt the casing one bit; it's just annoying because you have to keep on it. Don't go easy spray as much as you can. Not in the one spot! Spray the entire casing. Bacteria in a bulk substrate are not a contaminant. Commercial mushroom farms toss out any fruits that have bacterial blotch growing on the fruits themselves. However, having bacteria present in the substrate is not a cause for concern, and in fact many agaricus species won't fruit at all from sterilized substrates. Casing layers are not pasteurized in commercial mushroom production in order for the casing to have a high microbe count. NEVER keep a terrarium or other grow tub sitting on the floor. Get a table or shelf to put it on. Over 90% of the contaminants in a room are within a foot (1/3 meter) of the floor. You can tell when your casing needs a mist by looking carefully at the cakes or casing layer. Allow them to dry slightly, then mist lightly. After a few grows, you'll be able to instantly tell when a project needs to be misted. You don't want them to dry completely out, or get waterlogged. Rhizos on top are a good sign. Let them grow. Knots form later. We using 'Perlite' in our casings because perlite works not by holding water, but by preventing clumping and providing lots of air pockets in the layer itself, which stimulates primordia. By mixing perlite with vermiculite, you get the best of both worlds . . .moisture retention in the vermiculite, and air retention in the perlite. Ph balancing isn't necessary unless you add peat, which isn't absolutely required for cubes. Just don't try to grow agaricus or other edibles without peat in the mix, because they won't pin. If you're going to case substrates, you want the humidity no more than 90%, with 80% being ideal. Too high a humidity is a major cause of weak or no pinsets on cased substrates. CASING





*You don't need alcohol, peroxide, heat treatment, bleach or anything else on the perlite. Just rinse, and then drain well. Leave no standing water. There is nothing sterile about a fruiting chamber. FC

*Having a slightly acidic casing layer PH will not cause side pinning. Sure, you can mist with a bit of baking soda or hydrated lime in the water if you failed to balance the casing layer PH first, but as I said, that isn't the problem. An acidic casing layer will favor trichoderma and other molds, while mushroom mycelium is more tolerant of basic PH. This is the reason we use lime. As the mycelium colonizes the substrate, the metabolic byproducts produced begin to swing the PH lower. By the time pinning starts, you have a near neutral substrate, which is what you want.

Casing layers pin on the sides for several reasons, but most important to remember, they pin there when that's the best environment for them to form primordia. The crease between substrate and tray is a perfect microclimate. It's nice and humid down there and there is plenty of moisture for the substrate to work with. It's also protected from the spray from the mister, which will damage developing primordia if they get sprayed and are allowed to remain wet. When the mycelium is actively reaching/colonizing the top of the casing layer, back off on misting. A sheet of wax paper can be layed on top to hold in the microclimate you're looking for. It helps to wrinkle it up into a ball, and then spread it out again before laying on top of the casing. These wrinkles will ensure there is plenty of air circulating under the wax paper, while at the same time holding a high humidity level in your mini-environment under the wax paper.

It's normal for the substrate to shrink. It's more than loss of water because the mycelium is actually eating the substrate; therefore it naturally gets smaller over time.

At this point, I do not recommend liming the casing layer. You're trying to make it pin, not suppress trichoderma or other molds. If it only pins on the sides, you can be assured they'll grow into monsters. I doubt your total yield will be very much less, although it doesn't look as cool as a wild flush that hides the entire casing layer beneath a forest of mushrooms. CASING





*Exactly. Peat based casing layers should be pasteurized, not sterilized. It does no good to say something doesn't perform well if you don't follow proper procedure in making it. As I've said many times, the commercial growers have invested millions of dollars into research on ways to maximize crops. We can learn a great deal from them, and then expand on that knowledge. Edible and medicinal mushrooms with few exceptions are exponentially harder to grow then cubensis, so learn from those who are already at the next level. Growing cubes can be looked at as a way to learn mycology and then move on, or it can be looked at as a way to get some cheap drugs. Those who follow the latter are here today, freaked out by a trip and gone tomorrow. That's why there is such a huge turnover on this and other boards. Look at growing cubes as a way to 'learn the ropes' and then move to harder and more rewarding species. When you do that, the small things such as casing layer composition become much more important to get just right. Many species won't even fruit at all on a sterilized casing layer. Cubes will fruit, but poorly compared to how they fruit on a properly balanced, pasteurized casing layer, applied over a properly balanced, pasteurized bulk substrate. CASING



*I found no problems when using banrot, and the fruits came out normal. It seems I used 1 tablespoon of Banrot 40WP per five gallons of soak water, but that could probably be reduced. Banrot will prevent fungi spores from germinating, but doesn't affect mycelium. It also seems to prevent bacteria. I once left a freshly sterilized jar of rye berries exposed to the open air for half an hour or so, then closed it up and a month later, it was still contaminant free. However, good sterile procedure renders it unnecessary for grains, and while soaking casing material in it will prevent trich and cobweb, proper pasteurization and good air exchange will also prevent mold on casing layers. I prefer growing without chemicals and am generally an organic gardener. The Banrot experiments were simply experiments. Dried and crushed Rhododendron leaves will also help prevent trichoderma and cobweb in casing layers. FUNGICIDES FOR GRAINS/CASINGS



*You seriously need to read and study and not start a thread for every single question that pops into your head. The members can help answer what you don't understand AFTER study, but this isn't a place to learn everything. Commercial growers use buffered peat and NO vermiculite as casing. Their income depends on growing as many mushrooms as they can for the money they spend to grow them. Do you really think a multi-billion dollar industry is just throwing money away? Read, search and study. ALL the questions you're starting these threads lately for are already answered in detail, and available by a simple search, which is faster than typing a question. Those who know these answers are sick and tired of typing the same stuff hundreds of times, over and over again, and aren't going to do it anymore. Those who don't know the answer will make something up just to take a wild guess, and the disinformation continues . . . PEAT MOSS CASING



*Thicker substrates cause a lot of problems. Layering will give faster colonization with less damage to your spawn than mixing. You'll have more success with thinner substrate layers. Don't even attempt a six or seven inch thick horse manure substrate. They will heat up, and also have the tendency to go anaerobic in the core, leading to contamination. You'll get far more bang for the buck with two trays of 3 inch substrate layers than one tray with 6 inches. Horse manure fruits very well uncased. A properly made peat/vermiculite casing layer will increase yields, but is by no means necessary. BULK SUBSTRATES CASING



*With uncased substrate, wait for full colonization, and then place in the fruiting chamber. Try to keep humidity at 99%, since uncased substrates should be treated as cakes. Remember, when using a casing layer, we keep the humidity a bit lower to allow some evaporation from the casing, which is replaced by daily mistings. A piece of wax paper layed loosely over the uncased substrate will help produce a micro-climate conducive to fruiting, but remember that even though it helps, wax paper is no substitute for a genuine casing layer. UNCASED/CASED FC



*Primordia form in 99% humidity, and rarely in less. A casing layer can help to keep humidity at the surface of the substrate at 99%, even though the air in the fruiting chamber might be lower, therefore they allow for more sloppy technique. However, with less than upper 90's percent humidity, the casing layer dries out fast at the recommended level of air exchanges, defeating the purpose unless you mist heavily a few times daily. That's why I recommend 99% humidity for all growing, regardless of whether one cases his substrate or not. CASINGS



*I want to scream every time I hear that. It's wrong. Lysol doesn't cause mutations. I can only catch it so many times, and this Lysol/mutant myth is spreading like a damn virus. Your new homework assignment is to spray Lysol near (not on) one of your fruiting cakes and report the results. Lysol is mostly alcohol and isn't good for mushrooms, but using it in the room isn't going to cause mutations. I spray the face of my flow hood with Lysol prior to transfers, so it's always blowing on something. LYSOL MUTATIONS



*Mycelium needs light for much more than for the mushrooms to 'know which way is up'. Upon full colonization and a reduction in CO2 levels brought about by increased FAE, light becomes an important pinning trigger, and must be bright enough to penetrate the casing layer so that hyphal knots can form from deep within the casing instead of just on top. Dim light will produce 'some' pins, but if you want one of those wall-to-wall flushes, use bright light. I hope this helps clear up any confusion. CASING



*Agaricus farmers use peat without the vermiculite, while people growing cubes tend to mix peat and vermiculite. There's a reason for this. Agaricus fruits at ten to twenty degrees cooler than cubensis in very low light. There is far less evaporation of moisture from the casing layer at lower temperatures, thus the reservoir effect of vermiculite is not as necessary. For a given volume, vermiculite holds more moisture than peat, thus combining the two results in a compromise that favors fruiting in warmer conditions. CASING



*You pick the fruits that are ready to pick and leave the pins. The easiest way to re-hydrate a bulk substrate that is dry is to pour water around the edges of the tray so that the substrate floats a bit. Leave it overnight and pour off the excess water. Mist the casing layer well. Never pick the pins because it's common with many species to set pins for the first few flushes at the time of first flush. These pins remain dormant until their turn comes. If you pick them, you ruin future harvests. CASING/CAKES



*Perlite works not by holding water, but by preventing clumping and providing lots of air pockets in the layer itself, which stimulates primordia. By mixing perlite with vermiculite, you get the best of both worlds . . .moisture retention in the vermiculite, and air retention in the perlite. Ph balancing isn't necessary unless you add peat, which isn't absolutely required for cubes. Just don't try to grow agaricus or other edibles without peat in the mix, because they won't pin. CASING PERLITE



*A casing layer allows us to be a bit sloppier on conditions. For example, if you have to leave for work every day for 10 hours or more, a casing layer will protect your substrate while you can't be there to mist. If you can hang around and babysit your crop, it makes little to no difference. Note this applies to cubes only. Other species fruit poorly or not at all without a casing layer, and many edibles won't even fruit on a pasteurized casing, it must be untreated. CASING LAYER



*Heavy spore deposits do tend to hinder future flushes to some extent, but not to the point they describe. You don't need to leave them attached to the casing until you have a black mess everywhere in order to make prints. Pick them as the caps flatten out, but before they go crazy dropping spores. I have several totally sporeless strains. They're the way to go. Culture slants last for years in the refrigerator, making prints unnecessary. SPORE DEPOSITS ON CASING



*It seems to make sense that mixing would give faster colonization, but my experience is the opposite. By layering, the mycelium on the grains recovers and knits together, and then rapidly takes off and colonizes the rest of the substrate. In addition, since mixing 'can' damage the kernels, and a broken kernel is a prime site for contaminant spores to germinate, layering has the added benefit of less trauma to the spawn medium. LAYERING VS MIXING CASING



*Bacteria in a bulk substrate is not a contaminant. Commercial mushroom farms toss out any fruits that have bacterial blotch growing on the fruits themselves. However, having bacteria present in the substrate is not a cause for concern, and in fact many agaricus species won't fruit at all from sterilized substrates. Casing layers are not pasteurized in commercial mushroom production in order for the casing to have a high microbe count. CASING



*The most common contaminant during the fruiting stage is cobweb mold, but it's caused by lack of air circulation and exchange. The more you lift that lid and fan the better. There should be no dust. Wipe it off the top first, and of course, NEVER keep a terrarium or other grow tub sitting on the floor. Get a table or shelf to put it on. Over 90% of the contaminants in a room are within a foot (1/3 meter) of the floor. CASING CONTAMINANT COBWEB



*Mutants are pretty common. It wouldn't be from mixing B+ and TC. The mycelium only cares about A and B mating types, not the name somebody wrote on the syringe or print. You may end up with separate zones of each 'strain' or you may end up with a cross, or somewhere in between, but it won't be a hybrid since they're the same species anyway. Either way, it looks like not a half bad pinset you have started there . . . MUTANTS



*A 'casing' is simply a non-nutritious top layer that is applied over a substrate in order to supply moisture and an environment that is conducive to primordia formation. It should not be used as a synonym for a tray, substrate, or total project. The purpose of a casing soil is to provide moisture and also to provide lots of little air pockets with high humidity to stimulate primordia formation. CASING



*True, but in that same time you could have replaced that with a fresh one and got started on another 80% of either 100 or 250, increasing your total yield considerably. It really doesn't matter with hobby grows anyway, but in the commercial field where yield per square foot makes the difference between profit and going out of business, it counts. FLUSHES BULK SUBSTRATES



*I strongly recommend against leaving any grains on top of a substrate, exposed to air. If the grains dry out and the mushroom mycelium weakens, they become the perfect place for molds to start. Many growers get away with it, but the contamination rate will be higher over time. Grains should be covered with at least a very light layer of substrate, imo. LAYERING CASING



*Actually, perlite works very well in casing layers. It can't be used well in pf cakes, but in casing layers it helps to break up the peat and provide lots of O2 in casing layer, which stimulates pins. Of course, peat moss can be used without any vermiculite or perlite at all. Just lime to balance Ph, and use gypsum at ten percent by volume of the amount of peat. PERLITE CASING



*A layer of vermiculite under the substrate is counterproductive. I recommend against it. Some beginning growers do it so that if they over mist, the vermiculite soaks it up. However, if you fail to overwater, the vermiculite draws moisture from your substrate. The vermiculite on bottom can also cause the mycelium to pin there instead of on the top where you want it to. CASINGS FC



*It's very common for the mycelium to try to colonize the sides of the tray above the substrate line, especially if condensation is present, which I'm sure it is with your heater. Your fruiting chamber should be kept at normal room temperature, not heated. If it's too cold in your house, run a small space heater in the room, not the terrarium itself. CASING



*Overlay is matted, nearly dead mycelium. Full colonization, even if 100%. Overlay is matted, overgrown mycelium that makes the casing layer impervious to water absorption. A bit of rhizomorphic mycelium on the surface is ok. It's what produces primordia. Patch if you want to, but if you have primordia showing, don't. OVERLAY CASING



*Overlay is the condition that results when mycelium has been allowed to completely cover the casing surface. It is caused by prolonged vegetative growth temperatures, high CO2 levels, and excessive humidity. If overwatered, the overlay will become matted, or, will form a dense, dead layer of cells on the casing surface. OVERLAY CASING



*I've been saying unpasteurized casing material works better for years, but it's heresy around the OMC where half the growers PC their casing material. Chances of Dactylium mold contamination are higher with an untreated casing layer, but if one can manage proper air exchange, results are superior, ESPECIALLY with cubensis. CASING



*Use gypsum at up to ten percent of the peat. Don’t count the perlite and/or vermiculite. Test it with pH strips, and adjust with hydrated lime as necessary to get a starting pH of 8. When they say it has lime added, it means to make it right for plants, which generally like about 6.5 pH, which also happens to favor trichoderma. CASING



*You apply it to your fully colonized substrate and cover it up. You then place it on a shelf out of the way, at normal room temperature for a few days. When the mycelium pokes through a few days later, introduce to fruiting conditions. Read up on patching. It's optional, but does increase yield and pinset. CASING



*One benefit of a high CO2 level during colonization is that less of the actual carbon in the substrate is converted to CO2 gas. In other words, if you allowed too much fresh air during colonization, more of the substrate would be 'consumed' by the time the mycelium got to the fruiting stage. COLONIZING HIGH C02



*I would look for a mix without fertilizer if possible. It really won't hurt your fungus, but it could stimulate algae. The chemical plant food won't feed the mushroom mycelium or contaminant molds, but for my grows, I'd prefer to keep it away. I don't even use that stuff on plants. CASING



*Bear in mind, a substrate on the dry side will colonize faster than an overly wet one, so if your jars didn't colonize, something else might be wrong. It's also a good idea in a dry climate to run a humidifier in the room your grow is located to raise the ambient humidity. CASING/JARS



*Actually, vermiculite can provide moisture to support a flush, but it doesn't fit the definition of 'casing', a term which is tossed around and abused fairly loosely. Furthermore, cobweb mold LOVES plain vermiculite, which lacks the beneficial organisms to fight it off. VERMICULITE CASING



*Leave the substrate loose and airy. I like to add a touch of vermiculite to manure for that purpose as well. A slightly dry substrate will actually colonize faster, so I don't think that's the problem. I make mine dry on purpose, and then dunk before first flush. COLONIZING MANURE



*Nobody can answer that. There are too many factors besides strain that go into pinning. Also, there's no 'strains' that just colonize slower. Colonization speed is related to substrate moisture level, preparation, gas exchange, amount of inoculants, etc. COLONIZATION SPEED



*What you want is a short term (Hydrated Lime) because the life of a casing is measured in weeks instead of months or years. Use hydrated lime to get the ph right at the start, and use gypsum at a rate of ten percent to the peat in your casing to prevent ph swings later. CASING



*You don't finely grind up casing layer ingredients. The courser it is the better. It's important for air to be able to penetrate the entire casing layer. A few small pieces of debris in the peat doesn't hurt a thing. I never remove them. That's the reason we pasteurize. CASING



*You want upper ninety to near 100% humidity with lots of air exchange. Misting is required. Even at 99% humidity, the proper amount of air exchange will dry your casing layer (which is a pinning trigger), thus you need to mist to replenish the moisture. CASING



*In addition, colonizing mycelium as agar pointed out, generates its own heat. The process is called thermogenesis. I've seen up to a fifteen degree F increase in substrate temperature over ambient air temperature with manure-based substrates. COLONIZING



*It sounds like the substrate and/or casing layer might be too wet. After awhile, you can get a feel for when a bulk sub needs water by picking it up and judging the weight. You can actually develop a very accurate feel for moisture content this way. CASING



*It looks fine to me. The substrate is supposed to shrink. It's being eaten. It will pin in a few more days, and it's ok to keep the humidity up. You don't need to reduce it until after the pins turn into small mushrooms. Until then, 99% won't hurt a thing. CASING



*The biggest causes of slow mycelium growth are a too wet substrate, and not enough gas exchange. Make sure the holes on your jars are open. If your substrate is too wet, there's not much you can do except fix it on the next batch. SLOW COLONIZATION



*If the CO2 levels are too low during colonization, the mycelium will consume more of the substrate. By keeping the CO2 levels high during colonization, we save the mass of our substrate to support the flush. WHY C02 LOW AND HIGH FC AND COLONIZING



*Contaminants will easily germinate on damp vermiculite, and then spread their mycelium to your substrate below. The vermiculite barrier works in pf jars because it's dry. In addition, nothing 'wicks' contaminants, vermiculite or no vermiculite. CASING VERMICULITE



*A 'casing' is a non-nutritious top layer that is applied over the fully colonized horse manure in order to supply moisture to the substrate below and to provide an environment suitable for pinning. A casing layer is optional with cubes. CASING



*Often, they'll combine into one strain, but you'll never know, because there's very little difference between the various strains anyway, PE and the albinos excepted. It would be a 'cross' not a hybrid, which is an interspecies mating. MIXING



*Two feet of substrate would go anaerobic in the core due to no air getting in, and rot. 8" seems to be about the maximum you can go with consistent success, but it better be loose and airy if you're going that deep. SUBSTRATE DEPTH FC



*Incubate until you see mycelium coming up through about 20 to 30 percent of the casing layer. Sprinkle fresh casing material over that mycelium which is showing (That's what we call patching) and place in the FC. CASING FC



*Clusters vs. single fruits are strain related. Often when multispore inoculation was used, you'll see one on first flush, and the other(s) on second and later flushes. The reason is that different strains are flushing. CLUSTERS



*Mycelium on the caps is not an indication of too much humidity. It's a combination of two types of mycelium on the fruiting body. It's more genetic in nature, occurring in some substraiins more than others. CASINGS



*However, it's normal for the substrate to shrink. It's not just from drying, but from the mycelium actually eating the substrate, so it naturally gets smaller over time even if you dunk it. CASING/CAKES



*The CASING is the non-nutritious top layer that is placed over a substrate to help induce pinning and to supply moisture to the substrate and the developing fruits. CASING WHAT IT'S USED FOR



*They do shrink, but not typically on first flush. If this is first, they could be dry. Pour some water around the edges, then after a few hours, dump out any water that hasn't been absorbed. CASINGS



*However, it's normal for the substrate to shrink. It's not just from drying, but from the mycelium actually eating the substrate, so it naturally gets smaller over time even if you dunk it. CASING



*Never add a casing layer after pinning starts. It leads to contamination under the casing layer, and also causes the pins that have formed to abort in many cases. LATE CASING



*If you spawn in layers, the spawn layer recovers very fast which then makes it resistant to contaminants as it colonizes the layers of manure. BETTER LAYERING BULK



*Contamination prior to first flush indicates your spawn was contaminated. Mold mycelium is white, thus you didn't notice it until sporulation. CASING/SPAWNING



*It works great. It's just a bit spendier than buying a block of peat and a big bag of vermiculite. Sunshine mix #3 also works well. Don't forget to pasteurize. CASING



*Flush - It can either pin at will or once you see that the flushes are giving off continual harvests and the mushrooms look more haggard, it’s done. CASING



*You can leave it uncased. I wouldn't go 1:4 with that. Stick to 1:2 or 1:3. Horse manure does fine at 1:4 and straw can be done at 1:10. CASING RATIO



*No. Freezing will squeeze the moisture content out. Pasteurize tonight, then use tomorrow without freezing or nuking. FREEZING CASING



*Spores won't germinate on a fully colonized substrate. Harvest just before spore drop for best quality fruits though. SPORES/CASING



*If it's waterlogged, the fruits will be small and rotten. If it's too dry, the fruits will be dry, cracked, and hard, plus small. CASING



*Vermiculite by itself is the poorest choice of a casing material. It's barely better than no casing at all. CASING



*If you wait until the mycelium is all over the top of the casing, then what is the use of the casing? CASING



*3% peroxide straight from the bottle in your mister will melt cobweb mold on contact. COBWEB ATTACK



*Add 10% coir to your casing mix. That is somewhat like CAC'ing that some edible growers do. CASING



*Most often, if a cased substrate smells of alcohol. Some fermentation has, or is taking place. CASING



*Casing layer moisture content is critical; so don't leave it to a machine to figure out. CASING



*Substrate = Layer in which mushroom MYC feeds from. SUBSTRATE CASING



*Rhizos on top are a good sign. Let them grow. Knots form later. CASING



*A dry casing layer causes overlay. WHY OVERLAY CASING



*Casing layer = Layer on top, holds moisture. CASING









*Fine vermiculite holds more moisture per volume of measurement than course vermiculite; due to they’re being more of it. The basic formula of 2-1-1 works great with fine or medium vermiculite, but if you're using course vermiculite, you might want to cut down a bit on the water. I've found that cakes as well as grains, and even bulk substrates colonize a bit better and faster if made up on the dry side. With cakes, it's easy to adjust the water down, and then simply do a dunk and roll at birthing to put the moisture in for the flush at that time. If the first batch comes out a bit too wet, simply reduce moisture by 10% to 20% on the next batch until you find the sweet spot. I'd still recommend the occasional fanning. You simply can't have too much air exchange, and the turbulence from fanning helps prevent trich from getting a foothold on your projects. Good luck! PF TEK FC



*It's up to you if you want to roll in vermiculite after the second flush. If there's still vermiculite stuck to the cake, then it can do its job of absorbing water and supplying it slowly to the mycelium over time. If the mycelium has fully colonized the first batch of vermiculite you rolled in, then go ahead and roll after the second dunk. The idea is to have some uncolonized vermiculite on the sides and top of the cake to absorb water and act as a reservoir for the mycelium. 24 to 36 hours if fine for dunking depending on how much moisture the cake needs to absorb. If they're really lightweight, meaning they've dried out, then dunk longer. If they feel heavy, then they don't need to dunk as long. You don't have to worry about d