In a recent interview with Tim Ferris, Tim Kennedy starts by saying, “I hate sports jiu-jitsu. I think sports jiu-jitsu is the abomination to what martial arts is.” He much prefers combat jiu-jitsu, and went on to explain that “it loses its balls.”

Kennedy’s opinion on the validity of sport jiu-jitsu doesn’t come as a great surprise given his background, but he does surprise listeners later when he lists Roger Gracie as one of the top pound for pound grapplers in the world right now.

When prompted by Tim Ferris that many would consider Roger Gracie among the top five jiu-jitsu competitors of all time, Kennedy admits:

I’d put him top three. i’d tie him with three other guys.

Who are the three other competitors that rank up there with Roger Gracie? Kennedy says it’s Gordon Ryan, Rafael Lovato, and Marcelo Garcia.

You can check out the full interview below. Who would you say are the top three pound for pound grapplers of all time?