Vague dates like "coming soon" or "shipping soon" to lure pre-orders is outlawed in Germany, after a Munich Regional High Court ruling, in which a litigant took reseller MediaMarkt to court over excessive delivery delays. For any retailer to sell a pre-order for a commodity or a digital software license (i.e. take payment before product launch date), the reseller must specify the exact date of on which the product will be delivered. In other words, the onus is on the reseller to specify when a buyer will have the product or digital license in their possession, before making the sale, and ensure that the product reaches the consumer on or before the specified date.Resellers that are unable to specify a delivery date would be breaking the law by soliciting pre-orders. The new ruling bolsters Germany's consumer rights laws, which are among the strictest in the world. German consumers are already within their rights to return a product they don't like for no reason, within a finite amount of time after the sale. If a retailer delivers later than the specified delivery date, the consumer can refuse the product and become eligible for a full refund. Perhaps the biggest impact of this ruling will fall on the real-estate industry. Real-estate developers taking payments from home-buyers before the completion of the development (i.e. transfer of possession) of a property, must be ready to cough up a full-refund (adjusted by inflation), if the buyer doesn't get possession on the agreed delivery date.

38 Comments on German Court Bans Vague Dates like "Coming Soon" in Marketing and Sales

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#1 qubit

Overclocked quantum bit Great news, this is a good, common sense ruling. Now, if that disastrous brexit doesn't happen, it will apply to sunny Britain too. Posted on Jul 11th 2018, 16:22 Reply

#2 altcapwn

Damn what will EA Games do. Posted on Jul 11th 2018, 16:43 Reply

#3 dj-electric

altcapwn Damn what will EA Games do. CDPR is sinning the same sin, friend. CDPR is sinning the same sin, friend. Posted on Jul 11th 2018, 16:47 Reply

#4 xorbe

Instead of selling the game early as a pre-order, they will just tap dance around it with "buy a reservation which may be later used to purchase a game" or some such. Posted on Jul 11th 2018, 16:57 Reply

#5 the54thvoid

dj-electric CDPR is sinning the same sin, friend. Only if they are selling it as pre-order. Are they? (That's a genuine question). Only if they are selling it as pre-order. Are they? (That's a genuine question). Posted on Jul 11th 2018, 17:25 Reply

#6 yogurt_21

xorbe Instead of selling the game early as a pre-order, they will just tap dance around it with "buy a reservation which may be later used to purchase a game" or some such. like a season pass or game credits or tokens.



yup the mechanism to get around it already exists. like a season pass or game credits or tokens.yup the mechanism to get around it already exists. Posted on Jul 11th 2018, 17:27 Reply

#7 Basard

Maybe they should specify the 'quality' of the product to upon release... like, if they wanna charge forty bucks, the game has to have a metascore of 80% or better.... fifty bucks, it has to score 90%, etc.... 15 bucks and you can just release a potato. Better get them dates right though, or else!



(sarcasm) Posted on Jul 11th 2018, 18:31 Reply

#8 Totally

Oh boy sucks for those guys behind star citizen their entire business model is currently built around those two words. Also ironic, their EU studio is located in Germany. Posted on Jul 11th 2018, 19:05 Reply

#9 R0H1T

I wonder if this could apply to that thing called STAR something, something? Looks like Totally beat me to it :pimp: Posted on Jul 11th 2018, 19:07 Reply

#10 altcapwn

dj-electric CDPR is sinning the same sin, friend. the54thvoid Only if they are selling it as pre-order. Are they? (That's a genuine question). Nope they aren't last time I checked, they say they're waiting to give something to the players before they choose to pre-order. Nope they aren't last time I checked, they say they're waiting to give something to the players before they choose to pre-order. Posted on Jul 11th 2018, 21:09 Reply

#11 xorbe

yogurt_21 like a season pass or game credits or tokens.



yup the mechanism to get around it already exists. Oh I got it, you'll buy a $59 promotional CD with a video trailer, which includes a free digital copy of the game when available. Oh I got it, you'll buy a $59 promotional CD with a video trailer, which includes a free digital copy of the game when available. Posted on Jul 11th 2018, 22:20 Reply

#12 Totally

Also another bonus it kills season passes in their current form. For example, what is EA was doing with season passes, tallying up how much they made from pass sales and that was the budget for the "future dlc." Now they have to actually announce specific dlc with dates they cannot continue such shenanigans unless they pull passes for the German market. Posted on Jul 12th 2018, 6:36 Reply

#13 FordGT90Concept

"I go fast!1!11!1!" Nevermind EA/CDPR, this is bad news for products on Kickstarter, Fig, Indiegogo, and so on. They're always preorders and the date given (usually just a year, half year, or quarter year) is often missed. Doesn't mean they deserve litigation if they fail to meet the deadline. Either Germany is going to be barred from participating in those services, what's delivered on the required date will be completely unplayable, or they'll start giving dates like December 31, 9999, which are completely useless to everyone but an impossible deadline to meet. This is a terrible ruling. Posted on Jul 12th 2018, 7:39 Reply

#14 Vya Domus

So just announce a release date, cancel it and then rinse and repeat till you get there. Posted on Jul 12th 2018, 8:42 Reply

#15 Dragonsmonk

FordGT90Concept Nevermind EA/CDPR, this is bad news for products on Kickstarter, Fig, Indiegogo, and so on. They're always preorders and the date given (usually just a year, half year, or quarter year) is often missed. Doesn't mean they deserve litigation if they fail to meet the deadline. Either Germany is going to be barred from participating in those services, what's delivered on the required date will be completely unplayable, or they'll start giving dates like December 31, 9999, which are completely useless to everyone but an impossible deadline to meet. This is a terrible ruling. That is different though. The "AGB"s are stating that they might not always be able to deliver on time and you agree to that. Naming a quarter, half year or year is also a deadline and should be met as well though. Even on kickstarter. What you are also forgetting is that this is more aimed at the (advertising) companies who have no idea when that product is to be released, but already want to make money out of it. This will only affect you if you don't inform people about the delay anyhow. Most people I know will be happy if they are kept in the loop and with major delays you always, in Germany, have been able to step back from your purchase anyhow - no change there as such. Vya Domus So just announce a release date, cancel it and then rinse and repeat till you get there. It depends on how they phrase the ruling in the first place. If you just "cancel and then announce a new date" all the time it will be the same as above with the excessive delays. That is different though. The "AGB"s are stating that they might not always be able to deliver on time and you agree to that. Naming a quarter, half year or year is also a deadline and should be met as well though. Even on kickstarter. What you are also forgetting is that this is more aimed at the (advertising) companies who have no idea when that product is to be released, but already want to make money out of it. This will only affect you if you don't inform people about the delay anyhow. Most people I know will be happy if they are kept in the loop and with major delays you always, in Germany, have been able to step back from your purchase anyhow - no change there as such.It depends on how they phrase the ruling in the first place. If you just "cancel and then announce a new date" all the time it will be the same as above with the excessive delays. Posted on Jul 12th 2018, 9:06 Reply

#16 Vya Domus

Honestly this is another non-issue if you ask me. Instead of zeroing in on the actual problem which is the act of pre-ordering something , in other words trying to sell a product that does not yet exist even if it has a release date or that has received a great deal of false advertising. It seems to me all of these laws remain blind to things that actually matter , make no mistake they'll never truly hurt corporations , it's not in their interest. They'll just make you think they do from time to time with things like this. Posted on Jul 12th 2018, 9:20 Reply

#17 FordGT90Concept

"I go fast!1!11!1!" Dragonsmonk That is different though. The "AGB"s are stating that they might not always be able to deliver on time and you agree to that. Naming a quarter, half year or year is also a deadline and should be met as well though. Even on kickstarter. What you are also forgetting is that this is more aimed at the (advertising) companies who have no idea when that product is to be released, but already want to make money out of it. This will only affect you if you don't inform people about the delay anyhow. Most people I know will be happy if they are kept in the loop and with major delays you always, in Germany, have been able to step back from your purchase anyhow - no change there as such. Pre-orders don't charge the customer until the order is fulfilled (the date is utterly unimportant because people are free to cancel their pre-order whenever they want). Only crowdfunding breaks that mold by charging when the campaign ends. The risk of the order never being fulfilled in crowdfunding is spelled out clearly by the crowdfunding website. Pre-orders don't charge the customer until the order is fulfilled (the date is utterly unimportant because people are free to cancel their pre-order whenever they want). Only crowdfunding breaks that mold by charging when the campaign ends. The risk of the order never being fulfilled in crowdfunding is spelled out clearly by the crowdfunding website. Posted on Jul 12th 2018, 9:22 Reply

#18 Dragonsmonk

FordGT90Concept Pre-orders don't charge the customer until the order is fulfilled (the date is utterly unimportant because people are free to cancel their pre-order whenever they want). Only crowdfunding breaks that mold by charging when the campaign ends. The risk of the order never being fulfilled in crowdfunding is spelled out clearly by the crowdfunding website. Pre-orders in retail charge you right there and then. If I am not mistaken Steam, etc. do as well, not sure though as I don't ever pre-order. Pre-orders in retail charge you right there and then. If I am not mistaken Steam, etc. do as well, not sure though as I don't ever pre-order. Posted on Jul 12th 2018, 9:34 Reply

#19 Midland Dog

thats the most german thing i have ever heard, "coming in approximately 9 days, 2 hours, 15 minutes and 2 seconds" Posted on Jul 12th 2018, 10:08 Reply

#20 FordGT90Concept

"I go fast!1!11!1!" Dragonsmonk Pre-orders in retail charge you right there and then. If I am not mistaken Steam, etc. do as well, not sure though as I don't ever pre-order. Even if Steam did and you cancelled before it releases, you'd get a full refund. Even if Steam did and you cancelled before it releases, you'd get a full refund. Posted on Jul 12th 2018, 10:42 Reply

#21 Brusfantomet

FordGT90Concept Nevermind EA/CDPR, this is bad news for products on Kickstarter, Fig, Indiegogo, and so on. They're always preorders and the date given (usually just a year, half year, or quarter year) is often missed. Doesn't mean they deserve litigation if they fail to meet the deadline. Either Germany is going to be barred from participating in those services, what's delivered on the required date will be completely unplayable, or they'll start giving dates like December 31, 9999, which are completely useless to everyone but an impossible deadline to meet. This is a terrible ruling. I do not think it will be a problem since you technically are not buying a product on Kickstarter. You are "investing" in a project, it’s just that some "investments" gives you a product.



Massdrop on the other hand, that is a purchase. I do not think it will be a problem since you technically are not buying a product on Kickstarter. You are "investing" in a project, it’s just that some "investments" gives you a product.Massdrop on the other hand, that is a purchase. Posted on Jul 12th 2018, 11:35 Reply

#22 FordGT90Concept

"I go fast!1!11!1!" Investment implies a return on investment and crowdfunding doesn't do that (exception being buying shares in a game at Fig). Crowdfunding is largely based on preorders. Posted on Jul 12th 2018, 18:14 Reply

#23 Totally

FordGT90Concept Investment implies a return on investment and crowdfunding doesn't do that (exception being buying shares in a game at Fig). Crowdfunding is largely based on preorders. Most of the them, well the successful campaigns at least have a set time period or date they expect to ship or launch their product they'd still be safe. The ones that would be in trouble are the campaigns that "sell a dream" and then evaporate after the goal has been met. Most of the them, well the successful campaigns at least have a set time period or date they expect to ship or launch their product they'd still be safe. The ones that would be in trouble are the campaigns that "sell a dream" and then evaporate after the goal has been met. Posted on Jul 12th 2018, 18:25 Reply

#24 FordGT90Concept

"I go fast!1!11!1!" Totally The ones that would be in trouble are the campaigns that "sell a dream" and then evaporate after the goal has been met. No more trouble than they're in any way (usually bankruptcy proceedings). I really don't see any value in this ruling because the specific case, should circumstances warrant it, will be litigated eventually anyway. The OP makes it clear they need a specific date. Most crowdfunding campaigns only have a year and at best, a quarter. The date often slips because of unforeseen issues (e.g. Antsy Labs' Fidget Cube because of far greater preorder numbers than they anticipated).No more trouble than they're in any way (usually bankruptcy proceedings). I really don't see any value in this ruling because the specific case, should circumstances warrant it, will be litigated eventually anyway. Posted on Jul 12th 2018, 18:55 Reply

#25 Brusfantomet

FordGT90Concept Investment implies a return on investment and crowdfunding doesn't do that (exception being buying shares in a game at Fig). Crowdfunding is largely based on preorders. The money spent on crowdfunding is not a purchase, and therefore not a preorder.



Also note the citation marks on the word investment? The money spent on crowdfunding is not a purchase, and therefore not a preorder.Also note the citation marks on the word investment? Posted on Jul 12th 2018, 23:36 Reply