Director who gave evidence in Geoffrey Rush defamation case says a rehearsal room is a ‘place of play’

Theatre and entertainments spaces must be “forums of trust” that look after everyone, but at the same time they are places of experiment which use sexual energy to connect to the audience, the theatre director Neil Armfield has said.

Armfield was responding to a question from the ABC’s Q&A host, Tony Jones, about a “chilling effect” of the #MeToo movement on theatre.

“I agree completely that there has to be a forum and a situation of trust where everyone can speak, and speak of fears and anxieties, and that circle of trust needs to be absolutely looking after everyone within the company,” he said.

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At the same time, he said, the rehearsal room was “a place of play and experiment and was unique in the act of playing and acting”.

“There is sexual energy which in a sense is part of an actor’s way of connecting to the audience as much as connecting within the cast, and I think that means we have to be particularly mindful and particularly respectful.”

The playwright and actor Nakkiah Lui said harassment was also an assumption of sexual energy, and Armfield clarified that he wasn’t talking about harassment, but Lui said it wasn’t a clear line.

“It’s scary to say this, to talk about this, to be honest,” she said. “Sometimes people know what they’re doing is wrong, and sometimes that behaviour is so ingrained in them that they can’t even articulate that it’s wrong.

“So the assumption that ‘oh, you have sexual energy too’, the assumption that ‘this is what’s going on right now’ – that’s where people can exploit one another.”

ABC Q&A (@QandA) Neil Armfield offers his perspective of the complexity of the #MeToo movement #QandA pic.twitter.com/0aMZ9ZNF1V

Armfield was the fourth panellist to address the topic of the #MeToo movement and harassment in theatre. Monday’s show was held in the Pop-Up Globe Theatre and addressed issues of identity, sustainability and harassment in the industry.

Jones said it was difficult for Armfield to talk about it because of “the horribly painful experience you and the King Lear cast have gone through over the allegations over Geoffrey Rush”, referring to a defamation case between Rush and the Daily Telegraph newspaper, now before the court and for which Armfield had given evidence. Jones asked that he make a broad observation.

Before Armfield spoke, the actor and musician Zindzi Okenyo said there was bullying and sexual harassment in the industry, that she had experienced it, witnessed it and supported friends and colleagues who were victims of it.

“Until we realise that as a whole everyone is involved and the problem is systematic, there will be no changes,” Okenyo said. “Often the victim is the one who has to bear everything on their shoulders.”

She said if stories from victims weren’t heard properly and backed up by allies, nothing would change.

Throwing the question to the actor and playwright Toby Schmitz, Jones suggested it seemed “incredibly tricky … for male actors these days”.

Schmitz said he had experienced bullying and harassment a lot in film and television, but it was a “very, very rare occurrence” in theatre. He later agreed he was not the person primarily made to feel vulnerable.

“One can’t help but think does it complicate it further and how do we get the good result and get something electric and a bit of a buzz between people?” he said.

Schmitz said two artists who have a sex scene had to trust each other, but perhaps there did need to be an intimacy officer or similar position to ensure safety.

Okenyo added that such a role sounded strange but there were few situations in other workplaces like performing a sex scene, and people needed safe spaces.

ABC Q&A (@QandA) The panel offers on the complexity of the #MeToo movement #QandA pic.twitter.com/Mn0XtiO4GD

Lui said harassment was part of a broader problem and victims needed to be heard.

“I personally think that no one should bow made to feel vulnerable or unsafe just to make a scene be good,” she said.

“I think the reason why #MeToo has been so prominent in terms of the stage and entertainment is because we’re talking about people who are famous … What’s happening in industries where labour practices are far more exploitive and aren’t as supportive of women or aware or telling stories?”

The founder of the Pop-Up Globe theatre, Miles Gregory, said he thought men had been heard from enough in the #MeToo, and there needed to be a safe place to make great art without people feeling scared or harassed.

Armfield added: “And feel free to play as well. At the heart of what we do is the experience of play.”