Word of Barack Obama’s mid-November meeting with Beto O’Rourke cheered the millions of O’Rourke fans who want the Texas congressman to run for president in 2020. And it delighted the political pundit-verse, which is always hungry for new gossip and intrigue. Joe Biden, however, is said to have been less than thrilled. Obamaworld insiders describe the former vice president as upset—not specifically by Obama’s conversation with O’Rourke, but by the former president’s willingness to talk to other plausible Democratic contenders while Biden is still deciding whether to run himself. “This is unequivocally false. Period,” Biden spokesman Bill Russo says. So just how does Biden feel about his ex-boss chatting with potential primary rivals? “I’m not going to comment further,” Russo replies.

Obama has nothing against Biden—in fact, he still loves Amtrak Joe, according to a person familiar with the ex-president’s thinking. And Obama has been strict about not publicizing who has sounded him out. But he does not want to repeat what he considers a mistake from 2016, when the Democratic establishment wrapped its arms around Hillary Clinton as the party’s nominee early in the process. “He contrasts that with 2008, when he came out of the primaries and he’d been to all 50 states and he was fucking ready to take on John McCain,” one former Obama advisor says. “So his position this time is, ‘If you’re serious and you want to talk, I’ll talk to you.’ As things unfold, he might say, ‘Let’s all stay focused.’ But he’s not going to pick a winner.”

Obama’s current wide-open approach must feel painfully ironic to Biden: four years ago he was one of the prospective candidates being pressured to stand down in favor of Clinton. In August, 2015, not long after the death of Biden’s 46-year-old son, Beau, and with talk escalating that Biden might jump into the race, Obama’s longtime senior political advisor, David Axelrod, went on the Today show to say he would advise against a Biden run. “I know what it takes to put a presidential campaign together, and it is late in the game,” Axelrod said, sending an unmistakable message. “Secretary Clinton, for all her problems, some of them self-inflicted, still has a very high rating among Democrats, and that of course is what determines who the nominee will be, and a big head start.” Now a CNN poll of Iowa shows Biden far ahead of second place Bernie Sanders—yet Biden isn’t being given the same deference.

“If the institutional players had limited their time and advice to a couple of handpicked candidates in 2006 and 2007, Obama wouldn’t have had an opportunity to move forward,” says John Del Cecato, a Democratic strategist who began advising then-Illinois state senator Obama in 2004, and who worked on both of Obama’s successful presidential campaigns. “I know President Obama has tremendous respect for Biden. But he also appreciates the dark-horse candidates, or those who haven’t been as plugged in.” Obama’s experience also shapes his view that a long haul of contested primaries ultimately produces a sharper general election candidate. “When we lost New Hampshire in 2008 and we were all so depressed, Obama was very zen about the whole thing,” Del Cecato says. “Not that he wanted to be set back on his heels, but it’s one thing to have campaigned successfully in a couple of places. He thinks the nomination is something that should be earned.”

Biden is 76, and he has been a national political figure since 1973. With the party’s momentum moving toward younger, non-white, female, more liberal candidates, one top Democratic strategist believes Biden is actually better off with Obama talking to other presidential aspirants now. “If I were Biden, I wouldn’t want to be in a situation where Obama is saying, ‘Look, you’ve got to be for my VP.’ Democrats don’t like to be told who to vote for,” the consultant says. “Many people lined up behind Sanders in 2016 because they didn’t want to be told to support Hillary. Biden doesn’t want to fall into that trap, to have Obama embrace him too exclusively, too early.”

A second strategist, who works for a likely Democratic contender, understands why Obama’s flirtations may sting Biden’s ego. But this strategist doesn’t believe the former president will end up having much real influence on who emerges from the crowded 2020 field. “If Obama is playing footsie with people now, it creates tension,” the advisor says. “And it gets you some media attention and maybe some staffing. But actual voters? Obama himself has always been popular with Democrats, but I’ve never seen his popularity be transferrable to someone else.” Don’t kid yourself, though: Biden, and all the others, would love any wink, nod, or blessing Obama might bestow.