Transcript for Trump's Travel Ban Triggers Global Outrage

In shop from Amnesty International she's an amnesty international's USC's director of security and human rights thanks so much for joining us sorry. Thanks for having me. So give us your take very quickly in terms of where AI USA stands in the way executive order. Was introduced and implemented on Friday. We're extremely the. There by this executive order not only because of the impacts on people traveling to the United States. On the suspension of the refugee program the ban on Syrian refugees this is a shameful. Seeing that president trump has done. It stunned the world stunned communities in this country. That aren't really fearful of what the administration will do next it wondering if it's a harbinger of things to come. Nor in there's been a lot of coverage of the fact that their makeshift. Offices. Lawyers is we setting up camp at these airports across the country offering help in some way shape performs anyone coming in. From these affected countries and I'm just love if you could help us would give us a little clarity on what exactly the services are that these people are offering. We're looking at a lot of people are being stranded at airports and detained without access to legal counsel on and if you look at the past is any guide. There are a lot of danger when they're in this kind of legal limbo if you think about post 9/11. Hundreds of people detained after that I'm as well without access to counsel that can't even get access to court to say. If you send me back to this country I could actually be at risk of torture I could be persecuted. I have reasons why need to be here it's possible that people could be detained who have a very legitimate basis to be here it you know we are even hearing. It's possible that US citizens could be caught up in this. Will people do need is legal assistance they also need clarity from the trump administration about how this order is gonna be in force. Let's bring in after the conversation Peter Brooks is also joining us from Washington from the -- it's found a she's a senior fellow. Former deputy assistant secretary of defense mr. Brooks thanks for being with us. To do with you. So you wrote about this executive order waking then use that it would sound national security. Policy but we've how people including a former Homeland Security officials saying that this actually makes us. Less safe what do you say to that. Wed like to know what they're proof is what's their evidence of that I would say it's actually in the other direction. If I were president trump or any other president regardless of party. I would say considering what we're seeing overseas in Iraq and Syria in some of these other countries of concern. I would want to know what our programs and our policies our procedures and our practices are. To make sure that I can keep the country's I think it's a very reasonable from a national security stamp understand. There's questions about immigration procedure. There's questions about humanitarian concerns ethical moral question of from a national security standpoint. This makes this make sense to me especially. As basis is put under significant pressure in Iraq and Syria they've lost half half of the city of Mosul. The aired it there's possibility of their fighting around Rocco right now which is the capital of the college and I think when ice is collapses. That these foreign fighters that have gone there. We will try to in many cases return to Europe or the United States so. I think this is union some ways preemptive preventive and I think it's reasonable to make sure that the president and commander in chief. Is insuring that the American people are safe considering what we've seen here and what we've seen in Europe. Mr. Brooks in the piece that you wrote today said that the common thread that these countries affected by the executive order have in common is terrorism. But I also would like to point out that. None of the recent deadly terror attacks and US oil have been perpetrated by any citizen of any of those countries the Boston bombers. We're from Kyrgyzstan this San Bernadine or should go first excuse me Sandberg burner Diener. While the Sandberg not have shared her back was was from. Pakistan and end all these other countries have nothing to do with. The executive order. I don't I don't I don't dispute that you know are actually our threat has been here in the United States has been homegrown terror. We've had 27 plots or attacks in the United States in the last two years. They were homegrown. But they were inspired by the Islamic by the Islamic state I think every one of them was there might you wonder too that that weren't so yeah we have a threat here to. But if you look at these countries they are afflicted by terrorism as I point out and don't think you're disputing that. And there is reasons these countries were not only either on a state sponsor of terrorism list which is a bipartisan congressional. You know thing that is signed by the president of the United States or. They were put on in legislation journey Obama administration as countries of concern. And as you noticed later on in the in the piece that we may not be obligated to but people can look at it I talk about things like Somalia why Somalia. I mean this is the home of Elster Bob which is is a terrorist group which is called. Four attacks in the United States particularly in Minnesota at the at the Mall of America. You know this is Libya a country where ice is and where bang guys he took place where ice is al-Qaeda. Are running are running rampant besides what is going on in Iraq and Syria are regarding the is Islamic state so. I think this is I think this is very reasonable matter but is going to agree with me but I think from a national security stamp when when you see. That they refugee was involved in the terrorist attack in Berlin. You see that this summer the it to Paris attackers from. 2015. Were from were moved in would refugee flows if you believe the intelligence community that tell you that ice this. Has called upon those. Fighting with them to return and carry terrorism to the west there's a good reason to be concerned. That taught. Acker Robert to you right now because you have experience in domestic counterterrorism investigations as well on this national security front and take app for what it is right we can argue that the CEO is inhumane. That. Few people had their civil rights suspended for a matter of time but on the matter of effectiveness. Can you make a case that CEO actually does help to keep Americans more states. No I think thing EO is completely irrational. If you want good counter terrorism you're talking about sometimes looking for a needle in the haystack. This makes they haystack enormous congratulations you kept in 89 year old woman somebody's grandmother in the airport for five hours what could you've been doing with that time. This is not Smart counter terrorism this is policy based on prejudice. Not on facts not on analysis of hot actually keep this country safer. In fact I think it's shameful and disgusting to see the truck administration wrap itself up in the flag. In the real fear is that people have in this country and around the world for their safety. And claim that they're doing this to keep us safe and they're doing this to fee to pander to an extreme fringe. Of who they think their bases. Mr. Brooks over to you on this because you mentioned earlier not sure what the evidence that people are fighting for why they think it could work against American interests and obviously a lot of people were pointing to the fact. That to hottest groups were celebrating that they welcomed this. Because they feel it helps to feed into the anti American sentiment that feeds a lot of those people who may go on to carry attacks. Different places. In the west so what do you have to say that. I think if this executive order had not been implemented. I think that they would have done the same things this has not prevented them. Prior to this when he Obama estranged I think was. Very cautious in their wording did in want to use the word Islamist extremists are violent Islamist extremists they didn't want to called. Counterterrorism operation in the called overseas contingencies I don't think it changed anything in fact the nicest grew under the Obama administration. To what it was now I think its audits it's on its way out I certainly hope so and lot of that has to do with the a bomb at a station reacted to that. But I don't think it change things I don't think it change the fact that we had all of these. Homegrown plots that were inspired by nicest in United States I don't think it changed what happened in Europe so I I I am not convinced. That this is that they were going to cease and desist their propaganda operations. No matter oh. How they in any way that they could regardless of this regardless of this executive order unfortunately we really we really can't tell they'll use any thing. And propaganda is not always truthful so I don't know how you how you make that sort of had to make that sort of judgment. Peter Brookes from The Heritage Foundation and Doreen shop from Amnesty International USA thanks so much for being with us today. Thank you thanks rat me.

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