It was a night so bad for Manchester defences that a hole even opened up on the city's Mancunian Way.

But our issues in Europe are not limited to City and United.

This is the English problem.

Manchester United's players walk off dejected after suffering a surprise defeat to PSV

Manchester City's Kevin de Bruyne (left) and Eliaquim Mangala leave the pitch disappointed

Juventus' players celebrated like they'd won a trophy in front of their elated supporters

The Champions League comes around and once again the Premier League goes from being the best in the world to the poor man of the continent.

At times on Tuesday, as United endured a night in Holland as flat as a Dutch pancake and City, oh City, once again did what they do, it was like watching the Eurovision Song Contest.

United Kingdom, nil points.

Be honest. How many of that Juventus side that triumphed 2-1 at the Etihad Stadium on Tuesday night would you put in City's team? Paul Pogba, no doubt.

But other than the fantastic Frenchman, who would make Manuel Pellegrini's XI? Girgio Chiellini for Eliaquim Managala at a push (no pun intended). Maybe Patrice Evra for Aleksandar Kolarov and, if we ignore Sergio Aguero, Mario Mandzukic for Wilfried Bony. A generous four out of 11.

So talent is clearly not the issue.

Paul Pogba was in brilliant form for Juventus and set up Mario Mandzukic's equaliser

PSV came from behind to beat United in Eindhoven, much to the delight of the home fans

PSG made a good start to their Champions League campaign with victory over Malmo

The Premier League, so we are told, is the best to watch and there can be no debate over that. On Sunday I sat down in front of Leicester City versus Aston Villa and saw Tim Sherwood's side deservedly go 2-0 up at the King Power Stadium.

Now if that was a Serie A game, I may as well have turned it off there and watched the highlights of England's cricketers getting thrashed by Australia.

But in the gung ho Premier League, you know anything can happen.

In a flash the Foxes had brought it back to 2-2 and you also knew they were going to go on and score a winner.

Nathan Dyer (centre) scored the winner with a brave header as Leicester defeated Aston Villa

The Premier League is labelled as the most exciting compared to other European divisions

Without wanting to do high-flying Leicester a disservice, this was a clash between two teams destined for mid-table and yet I could not take my eyes off it and you do not really get that elsewhere in Europe.

But our strength is also our weakness.

City have been wonderful to watch this season, especially at the Etihad Stadium. At their home fortress they batter teams into submission. The first goal goes in and then the floodgates open.

On Tuesday night, they went 1-0 up. Brilliant. At that point an Italian team would have shut up shop and set up to hit their opponents on the break.

But not here. We will not stand for it. We want blood. Finish them off, City.

And that is exactly what transpired. Juventus are not stupid. When the manhandled Giorgio Chiellini put through his own goal they actually went deeper, knowing City would not be able to resist the bait.

Manuel Pellegrini's side got themselves into a deserved lead but fell into Juventus' trap

Giorgio Chiellini, No 3, heads into his own net under pressure from the City captain

Alvaro Morata (right) fired the Italian side into the lead with a fine strike and it was enough for three points

Pogba, who had been in the thick of a battle with Yaya Toure, shifted to the left. The Ivorian did not follow him.

Suddenly he had the space to deliver a perfect cross for Mandzukic to level. Moments later, albeit thanks to an unfortunate deflection off Kolarov's shoulder, Alvaro Morata spun a not-so-fresh off the bench Nicolas Otamendi and it was game over.

Take that, suckers.

City's best player against the Italians was Fernandinho. Why? Because he broke up the play, was intelligent with his positioning and came forward at the right moments.

Will much be written about this? Will he get the praise he deserves? No chance. Because we are not interested in that side of the game and it is a domestic issue that continues to haunt us on the continent.

The only solace for City fans, as they made their way home from another night of Euro trash, was that they would not have to face the taunts of United supporters.

Luciano Narsingh (centre) runs off to celebrate after putting PSV ahead against United

Louis van Gaal's (centre) side have been labelled as boring despite their solid overall start

Cristiano Ronaldo scored a hat-trick as Real Madrid thrashed Shakhtar on Tuesday night

By all accounts Louis van Gaal's men were the better side and I am told they were desperately unlucky to lose.

Nonsense. Van Gaal has spent £300million. He has even taken PSV's best player. Luck should not come into it.

The English problem also rears its head at Old Trafford where Van Gaal, despite the chants, is often criticised for his boring football. It is not the United way, see. Fans want wingers, they want to see the red shirts swarm over the opposition and kill them off.

At least City and United are still in it. The same cannot be said for West Ham and Southampton.

I am not a Hammers fan so I do not know their attitude towards the Europa League. But I would say that, even allowing for cheap tickets, a full house at Upton Park at the start of July to see them take on an Andorran side would suggest there is a bit of an appetite for it in the East End.

While staying in the Premier League (should they not be aiming a little higher?) is no doubt the big priority before the move to the black-and-white-seated elephant, the contempt they showed for their European adventure deserves to be criticised after starting six players with no top-flight experience in a loss to a Romanian side they were well capable of overcoming.

West Ham were sent packing from Europe after losing to Astra and played a weakened side

Southampton were knocked out the Europa League by Danish side Midtjylland during qualifying

And that is another part of the English problem - we are so obsessed with our own league that at times we are blinkered to the wider world.

The Americans of Europe.

It would be harsh to level the same criticism at Southampton, who at least selected something resembling a first team before going out to Denmark's mighty FC Midtjylland. But will there be many tears shed at St Mary's over missing out on Thursday nights in far flung corners of the continent? It is unlikely.

On Wednesday, we have Arsenal and Chelsea to look forward to. Will London succeed where Manchester failed? Do not hold your breath. The English problem affects all of us.