GRAND RAPIDS, MI – In a deposition for a former worker’s racial-discrimination lawsuit, Founders Brewing’s general manager would not concede that the black man who filed the lawsuit is black.

Tracy Evans filed the federal lawsuit against Grand Rapids-based Canal Brewing Co., doing business as Founders, alleging that co-workers used racial slurs with impunity as part of an “overtly racist culture.”

Evans worked at the Grand Rapids production facility from 2014 to 2017 then became a manager at the Detroit taproom before he was fired in 2018.

As apparent fallout of the lawsuit, Founders is not going to participate in the Detroit Fall Beer Fest, the Detroit Free Press reported.

In a deposition, general manager Dominic Ryan – who said he had known Evans for years, before he started working at Founders -- was questioned by Evans’ attorney, Jack Schulz. The attorney grows frustrated with the answers.

Q. “Okay. Are you aware that Tracy is black?”

A. “What do you mean by that?

Q. “Were you aware that Tracy is African American?”

A. “I’m not sure of his lineage, so I can’t answer that.”

Q. “All right. Are you aware Tracy’s a man of color?”

A. “What do you mean by that?”

Q. “Do you know what a white person is versus a black person?”

A. “Can you clarify that for me?”

Q. “No. Do you know – you don’t know what it means for someone to be a white person or a black person?’

A. “I’m asking for clarification.”

Q. “You don’t need any, I can promise you that. We’ll keep the record as is. Someone’s skin color, a white –“

A. “So that’s what you’re referring to?”

Q. “Yeah. O, yeah, yeah.”

A. “Okay. Yes, I know the difference in skin tone.”

Q. “Are you able to identify individuals by their skin color?”

A. “What do you mean identify?”

Q. “I mean that have you ever looked at Tracy Evans in your entire life? Have you? That’s a – that’s a genuine question.”

After Founders’ attorney Patrick Edsenga objected to the question as argumentative, then told Ryan he could answer, Ryan said, “Yes.”

When asked if he knew that former President Barack Obama, NBA legend Michael Jordan or ex-Detroit Mayor Kwame Kilpatrick are black, Ryan said he hadn’t met them.

The Detroit Metro Times’ Tom Perkins first obtained Ryan’s deposition.

In response, Edsenga, the attorney for Founders, told Perkins it would soon file a motion to dismiss the case with proof that neither race nor retaliation were factors in Evans’ termination. He asked Perkins to withhold judgment or comments until then.

“In the event that you will not, I understand that a person unfamiliar with most of the facts in this case, and a person unfamiliar with the obligations that individuals are under when they give deposition testimony, might perceive Mr. Ryan’s statement as noteworthy. It is not. First, as I doubt you’re aware, Mr. Evans himself has testified – unequivocally and under oath – that Mr. Ryan is not racist and was his friend; so whatever point Mr. Evans is trying to make by leaking deposition testimony to you is undone by his own words. Second, this testimony is not Founders’ defense in this case as you allege. Founders evaluated and decided to terminate Mr. Evans based only on his job performance. Mr. Evans’ poor job performance will be apparent when Founders files its upcoming motion. Third, through this testimony, Mr. Ryan was simply saying that he does not assume anything about individuals’ race or ethnicity unless they tell him that information. While it might be acceptable to speculate about this type of thing in casual conversation, Mr. Ryan was not having a casual conversation. He was under oath when he made these statements. As all deponents are instructed, Mr. Ryan was directed not to guess, assume or speculate in his deposition. This is the reason for his answer.

“The fact that Mr. Evans is selectively leaking this type of information to you indicates that, unlike Founders, he has no evidence to support his position in this case. Founders looks forward to its day in court, and, now that discovery has closed, it is more confident than ever that it will prevail.”

Founders says the lawsuit is baseless.

Evans, then the events and promotions manager, contends that co-workers used racial slurs in his presence and that company officials ignored “blatant racism.”

The company said that a worker in Grand Rapids who used a slur apologized to Evans and was disciplined.

The company also disputed Evans’ claim that the Grand Rapids facility had a “white guy printer” for management and a “black guy printer” for general workers.

Schulz, Evans’ attorney, provided a portion of the deposition to MLive/The Grand Rapids Press.

He also provided affidavits of two former workers who said Evans lost his job after informing others he was going to complain to human resources.

They said that a co-worker made racist statements but was not disciplined.

In the deposition, Ryan acknowledged that Evans had darker skin than he did.

Schulz said, “I mean - we could - This could be a one-sentence answer, you know. So by your - I guess your testimony is you have no idea if Tracy is a minority, if he’s African American?”

The response: “I don’t know Tracy’s lineage, so I can’t speculate on whether he’s - if he’s from Africa or not.”

He acknowledged that he has met a black person who was born in the United States.