SARAH GREEN CARMICHAEL: Welcome to the HBR IdeaCast from Harvard Business Review. I’m Sarah Green Carmichael. Today I’m talking with Pierre Nanterme, the chairman and CEO of Accenture. Pierre, thank you so much for talking with us today.

PIERRE NANTERME: My pleasure.

SARAH GREEN CARMICHAEL: So I thought I would start with the very big picture. I am constantly hearing people say that business is more volatile, more uncertain. Things are moving faster and faster. This has become one of the things that people just say and accept as if it’s true.

What is your take on that? Is that, in fact, the way business is today? Or is there something else going on?

PIERRE NANTERME: I mean, certainly, yes. The world has always been uncertain. This is the nature of the world. But probably the pace has changed. And the radical EQ of the transformation are more important than in the past, which is requiring a lot of agility in the way you run the business now.

SARAH GREEN CARMICHAEL: Now, I have heard you say before that there is three phases to digital transformation. What are those three phases?

PIERRE NANTERME: The three would be, number one, the digital consumer. This is a way we’ve seen how you interact and you engage with the consumer using digital technology and creating what I would call hyperpersonalization.

The second wave is digital enterprise. It’s how you digitalize your business process, operating processes inside the company. It could be HR. It could be finance. It could be the way you interact with your employees. It could be governance. It could be the CEO being fully digitalized using hologram, which is the ultimate illustration of how you can digitalize governance.

And the third wave is kicking now. It’s what we’re calling digital operation. You could call that industrial internet. You could call that the internet of things. It’s where the internet is going to be pervasive across all products we’re going to use and create a brand new environment.

SARAH GREEN CARMICHAEL: So I’m glad you mentioned the hologram. You’re the only CEO I’ve ever talked to or even heard of who has ever appeared as a hologram. What was that story?

PIERRE NANTERME: I mean, Sarah, you’re very lucky, because I’m here physically. Maybe next time you will interview my hologram. Indeed, we are a very large organization. We have 360,000 people operating in 120 countries. And you can’t be everywhere. And it’s extremely important that you’re remaining in touch with your people.

And we are using a lot of digital technologies at Accenture. We have our internal social network, if you will. All our conference, and when I address our 300,000 people, it’s through digital, webcast, TelePresence, Ogio. Last time, we had to record 100,000 people live, which, I guess, is probably a worldwide record, people participating from all over the world to [INAUDIBLE] our web conference I organized.

So the ultimate, and we tried that [INAUDIBLE], way of communicating would be me being in multiple places at the same time, which, of course, is impossible, except by using technology. So we tested that in a big conference we had in Chicago. I was in Paris in my office. We used this holographic technologies. And so my hologram was in Chicago, delivering the conference.

So in that case, it was only in one location. Now, what I’m trying to do is to use my hologram at the same time in multiple locations, so I can be in front of thousands of people without leaving my office.

SARAH GREEN CARMICHAEL: That’s very cool. So I’m interested, as we’re talking about some of these big shifts, obviously, Accenture, part of what you’re company does is help other companies sort of adapt to this landscape. But I’m also curious to know how it has changed in your business. Because when you think about consultants and people flying and traveling all over the world, and also giving very personalized one-on-one advice.

But obviously, changes, like big data and advanced analytics and cheaper computing power, that sort of affects perhaps that business of advice-giving as well. And then, obviously, business travel, you just mentioned, is totally being upended by some of these technologies as well. So just tell me a little bit about how these shifts affect your business.

PIERRE NANTERME: Sure. I mean, the consultancy business is in the midst of radical change. And if I had to characterize the trend, if you will, it would be from issue to outcome. This is what our clients want. They want now a result.

So advisory services are not enough to create an impact in the marketplace. And this is the evolution we’ve been driving at Accenture is how to organize our company to create new capabilities. So indeed, we can commit on an outcome. We can commit on the results.

While providing services from strategic consultancy services, Accenture Strategy, then we created Accenture consulting to drive the transformation at our clients. We have Accenture Digital, where we have the capabilities to implement digital native solutions, analytics, mobility, all the interactive.

We created Accenture Technology to leverage the best technology platforms. And finally, we have Accenture Operations, where we operate on behalf of clients. And by creating this suite of services, we are relevant from the ideal generation, the business case, shaping the future to building and operating solutions, and so delivering a measurable outcome. It’s a massive revolution in our industry.

SARAH GREEN CARMICHAEL: Well, and another change I was just reading about is you’ve actually changed the performance management system as well. So you’ve just recently gone from an annual review system that is sort of the standard at many companies to something that’s sort of much more real-time. Tell us a little bit about that transformation.

PIERRE NANTERME: It’s a very big transformation. And to be honest, since it has been announced I have received tons of mail and requests for information on how you’re going to do it. And I’m thinking that as it is overdue. It seems that most of the companies, large and small, are looking for a new way of driving performance management.

And again, at Accenture, we always want to be more at the front line of the change and testing on us the new ways of doing things. The rationale behind is we’re working more and more with the famous Millennium generation. So people who are digital native, they want to have real-time performance feedback. They want to understand where they are, what might happen, what their future is. And they want to understand that quickly in a very direct conversation.

And of course, the standard annual interview doesn’t fit anymore that purpose. So we decided to get back to something, which we believe is going to be a more fitful purpose, simpler, and better for Accenture. The feedback going to be given real time after each projects or activities. And for that, of course, digital will be extremely useful. So all this feedback will be done and recorded on digital tablets, smartphone, or all devices.

So I’m with you. We’re closing a job. We have the conversation. I can simply type the feedback on my tablet. I don’t need to get to, whatever, any laptop or other bureaucratic tools and techniques. That’s the point number one.

Second, we’re going to simplify the criteria. Over time, in order to better evaluate people, we piled 10, 15, 20, 25 criteria. We need to get back to what matters, if you will, in the context of your evaluation on your project. And that shouldn’t be more than three or four metrics or criteria. 20 is not better than four.

And finally, it’s all delegation of authority. We’ve become a big firm, as I mentioned before. And so we can’t manage performance management in a centralized way. It’s becoming just too cumbersome and too bureaucratic.

So we are back to delegation of authority to the leaders. Leaders are evaluating their people through very simple, but relevant criteria and doing that on the regular basis. So you see, there is nothing kind of breakthrough thinking, but it’s the execution which is going to be extremely important. And this is what our people want now.

SARAH GREEN CARMICHAEL: Well, and I’m wondering, as you’re talking about giving feedback to people and maybe just four very important dimensions, what are the things that you look for in telling? What are the things that you would be wanting to see in people that you’d be evaluating or hiring?

PIERRE NANTERME: What we want to measure is your capability, ability to progress, and to grow with your carrier. And what we’ve seen over time that, of course, you can have data, metrics. But at the end of the day, what’s important is to tell the person you’re working with, where are you today? Are you relevant in your job or for your clients or for what you’re doing? And as important, what is your ability to grow and to grow your carrier?

So you see that, of course, some data might serve as a kind of baseline. But at the end of the day, it’s more evaluating the possibility of the people to grow and progress their carrier. This is where we want to move the performance management process from just mining the data, your revenues, your profits, or whatever, or your performance has been moving from x to z, from we believe that you have the potential to grow and develop based on your performance, but based on your personality.

SARAH GREEN CARMICHAEL: As we’re talking about some of these big changes that are happening at Accenture, and then also outside in the world of business, I’m wondering how you see your role in all of this. I know we have listeners and readers who are CEOs. We also have many people who are sort of aspiring to that role. And I’m just wondering, what is it that only someone really at your level can do?

PIERRE NANTERME: If I had to probably define and characterize my job, and maybe the job of a CEO today in this global world, highly volatile, uncertain, and when you need to transform is to be the catalyst for change. That’s probably the definition I would give to my job. I’m the catalyst.

I need to create the environment for the change and the transformation to happen. And probably it’s a combo of three ingredients, if you will.

It’s, of course, the vision. You need to set the vision. You need to set the purpose. You need to bring people with you with a goal, which is going to be compelling for them.

Second is the motivation. It’s creating a high level of engagement, commitment. And again, the purpose is extremely important. But the way of working, what I described before, we are a very open organization, very flat, easy access to the leaders, regular dialogue, highly digitally enabled between the people. So you can reach anyone anywhere with just one touch.

And finally, the execution. The vision and the motivation are great. But beyond that, you need to get things done and make sure you execute it. And I think the CEO of tomorrow, they should have this agility from the big picture to Monday morning agenda, from setting the vision to measuring the results. Testing, trying, coming back, and being the catalyst of that change in all this large organization.

SARAH GREEN CARMICHAEL: I think that’s a great answer. How do you find time to do all of that? That’s my other question.

PIERRE NANTERME: The next point is about your leverage. Nothing is big enough. There is no Superman or Superwoman on the planet, only in the movies. So then you’re getting back to the real world.

And when you’re setting all this vision, motivation, execution mindset, of course, and it’s always been the same, you need to be surrounded by people who are much better than you. And this is what I’m trying to do at Accenture is to make sure I have the right team. But we’ve said that a lot, that you need to have the right people.

Now, the point is they need to be extraordinarily relevant for what they have to do. We have different businesses at Accenture. We have different geographic leaders. They all have a very specific mandate.

So it’s like a team. Everybody’s got a role that should be delivered with a sense of perfection and amazing commitment and, of course, with a very strong common culture.

SARAH GREEN CARMICHAEL: Well, OK, this will be my last question. I could ask you questions all day. But tell me a little bit about how you make that strong common culture. Because I think that is something that every leader just finds so challenging when it’s not there.

PIERRE NANTERME: At Accenture, I must recognize that we benefit from a long time from a very strong culture. Probably because we’ve never been through any significant big transformational acquisitions, to be honest. So we’ve been growing in an organic way for decades.

All the leaders are coming from the ranks. So on the one hand, you might argue, you’re not bringing enough fresh blood maybe. But on the other end, you continue developing a very strong common culture.

We’ve been very stringent and very key in communicating our values and our principles. And we are absolutely stringent and not for negotiation around our values. If someone is not doing what’s right for our clients, for our people, or for our companies, then we will take some very drastic action.

But we don’t want to deliver a culture of punishment, but more for encouragement. For instance, in term of calling compliance, which might be perceived as a constraint, we call all this program conduct counts. And I think it’s profound, because what we’re trying to do at Accenture is more to promote, to support, to explain what it takes to do the right thing– again, for our people, for our clients, for our different stakeholders, if you will– a cultural of openness, not a culture of fear, and making sure that the leaders are leaving our core values and are the best promoters of our culture.

It’s an every day task. And it’s really a leader by leader time of commitment, because, at the end of the day, this is what it is. Leaders lead.

SARAH GREEN CARMICHAEL: Well, that’s an excellent reminder. Pierre, thank you so much for coming in today. I’ve really enjoyed our conversation.

PIERRE NANTERME: Thank you, Sarah.

SARAH GREEN CARMICHAEL: That was Pierre Nanterme, the chairman and CEO of Accenture. For more, visit hbr.org.