It was just over 25 years ago when Michael Jordan unretired for the first time and resumed his NBA career. Given Jordan’s status as an all-time great and a six-time champion, many fans have wondered whether his Chicago Bulls might have won eight titles in a row, had he kept playing.

Those around the Rockets, including Hall of Famer Hakeem Olajuwon, bristle at those suggestions. Though Houston didn’t face Chicago in the playoffs during the 1993-94 and 1994-95 championship runs — which came after Jordan’s 18-month retirement starting in October 1993 — the Bulls didn’t face the Rockets in any of their six title runs, either.

Thus, NBA fans are left with a hypothetical debate without any supporting evidence from the playoffs.

It sounds as if even Jordan himself was skeptical of that matchup, though. According to a new story in The Athletic, then-Rockets coach and recently crowned Hall of Famer Rudy Tomjanovich met up with Jordan in a group dinner setting after his 1998 retirement from the Bulls.

Per Tomjanovich (via Michael Lee), here’s what Jordan said:

Unprompted, Tomjanovich said, Jordan offered some praise for what the Rockets accomplished. “He gave our team great respect,” Tomjanovich said. “He didn’t feel that they could contain Hakeem [Olajuwon]. They just didn’t have the personnel to do it. And he said he thought we were the team that gave them the most trouble.”

New Hall of Fame inductee Rudy Tomjanovich spoke to @TheAthleticNBA about his long wait, a "phenomenonal night" at Charles Barkley's house, Hakeem Olajuwon, the story behind the "don't ever underestimate the heart of a champion" comment, The Punch & more https://t.co/r2zv1fSYz9 — Michael Lee (@MrMichaelLee) April 13, 2020

It’s worth remembering that the Rockets went 5-1 versus Jordan’s Bulls in six meetings between 1991 and 1993, all prior to his first retirement. Olajuwon clearly earned Jordan’s respect, as evidenced by Jordan selecting the Houston legend for his all-time NBA team.

While they never met in the playoffs, Chicago’s nondescript centers such as Bill Cartwright and Luc Longley offered little resistance to Olajuwon in the regular season. By contrast, many of the teams Chicago defeated in the NBA Finals — such as Barkley’s Phoenix Suns, Karl Malone’s Utah Jazz, and Shawn Kemp’s Seattle Sonics — lacked the offensive production at center to challenge the Bulls at their weakest position.

If the transitive property were applied, the Bulls could argue that they beat the Sonics and Jazz in the NBA Finals from 1996 through 1998 after those teams beat the Rockets in the playoffs. But on the other hand, the Rockets could point out that they beat Orlando in the 1995 NBA Finals only weeks after the Magic had beaten the Bulls, with Jordan. That’s the exact point that Olajuwon and Kenny Smith recently made.

One popular theory is that Jordan was “rusty” in the 1995 playoffs after only playing in 17 regular-season games. But that’s not really shown in the data. Jordan averaged more points, rebounds, assists, steals, and blocks per game in the 1995 playoffs than he did in the 1996 playoffs (when Chicago won the title), all on superior shooting from the field.

Ultimately, the Rockets and Bulls peaked at different times, and NBA fans never got to see the matchup in the playoffs. As it is, though, the 1990s Rockets are happy with their two titles — and they’re always ready to push back against those trying to diminish their accomplishments.

Fortunately for them, it appears that even Jordan himself acknowledges that the Rockets have a valid argument.