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The following chatlog happened at ##mtgox-talk IRC channel at freenode on 2014-04-25 UTC+7

I, Aditya Suseno (a.k.a SuSEno) PGP signed the following chat log:

(08:20:54 PM) Lao_Ban_: Hey everyone

(08:20:59 PM) Mantrid: sup

(08:21:01 PM) scalability-junk: They rejected the first plan. Not to say they reject the next one.

(08:21:07 PM) Hugo2: Hi Lao_Ban_

(08:21:12 PM) Lao_Ban_: depends on what the next plan contains

(08:21:16 PM) scalability-junk: Lao_Ban_: any news? especially on the second bidder?

(08:21:25 PM) Hugo2: Lao_Ban_, we are a bit lost about current situation, can you update? do you have time?

(08:21:26 PM) Lao_Ban_: as from Sun Lot, have we heard anything about their new plan yet?

(08:21:33 PM) Lao_Ban_: I do have time

(08:21:40 PM) Lao_Ban_: what are your questions

(08:21:52 PM) Aquent: is it over?

(08:21:55 PM) Lao_Ban_: no

(08:21:55 PM) anarchystar: Lao_Ban_: sunlot are crooks right

(08:21:57 PM) EnnnE: sunlot plan: there is a pdf on scribd...

(08:21:59 PM) Aquent: must it be liquidated now?

(08:22:04 PM) Mantrid: Is Mark doing alright?

(08:22:05 PM) Lao_Ban_: it must not be liquicated

(08:22:10 PM) Lao_Ban_: they are crooks by all accounts

(08:22:12 PM) Hugo2: Lao_Ban_, anarchystar has said this morning (hours ago) that the savegox guys are appealing the liquidation resolution, do you know if true?

(08:22:20 PM) Lao_Ban_: just look at their initial plan

(08:22:28 PM) Aquent: does the liquidator legaly have authority to give the 202k btc to someone else other than the individual creditors?

(08:22:29 PM) Lao_Ban_: and the fact we have not seen a new one from them

(08:22:48 PM) Lao_Ban_: yes he does, but he has to sell them to the highest bidder

(08:22:53 PM) anarchystar: tell us how they tried to make this shady backdeal

(08:23:07 PM) Lao_Ban_: thats an interesting story

(08:23:12 PM) Callezetter: i wonder how many % of the creditors that are not verified or want to make claim with an ID... could be quite big?

(08:23:16 PM) Lao_Ban_: we have all seen this plan that was leaked

(08:23:25 PM) Lao_Ban_: notice that it says strictly confidential on it

(08:23:34 PM) Lao_Ban_: someone leaked it bc it was supposed to be secret

(08:23:46 PM) Lao_Ban_: these guys were working with mark from the day gox had issues

(08:23:58 PM) Aquent: when was that?

(08:24:04 PM) Lao_Ban_: from what i know they were trying to buy gox well before all this

(08:24:22 PM) Lao_Ban_: when the plan leaked and received bad press

(08:24:24 PM) Lao_Ban_: they called me

(08:24:26 PM) Lao_Ban_: and we met

(08:24:33 PM) Lao_Ban_: they told me is was a mistranslation

(08:24:37 PM) anarchystar: lol

(08:24:44 PM) scalability-junk: Rumor: Then mark told them he had huge amounts of btc missing and they planned for sunlot to buy most of them up cheap from customers, with a failing story etc. pp

(08:24:45 PM) scalability-junk: :D

(08:24:45 PM) esse-: haha

(08:24:49 PM) Lao_Ban_: which could not be the case

(08:25:22 PM) Lao_Ban_: anything is possible, these guys are insiders

(08:25:35 PM) Lao_Ban_: this is why their plan was so out of touch with the community

(08:25:43 PM) Lao_Ban_: while we were here dealing with the issues first handf

(08:25:57 PM) Lao_Ban_: they were in a smoke filled room with MK figuring out how to profit from our misery

(08:26:15 PM) scalability-junk: Lao_Ban_: so what about the second group? Prior experience, not that shady, community based... or is that just a rumor?

(08:26:19 PM) Lao_Ban_: the only reason we are getting a new plan from them is because the old one was leaked

(08:26:29 PM) Lao_Ban_: The second group is OkCoin

(08:26:30 PM) Hugo2: Lao_Ban_, one thing I dont get is what is MK getting out of sidding with these guys?

(08:26:38 PM) Lao_Ban_: I can announce this today

(08:26:48 PM) Hugo2: OkCoin the chinese exchange?

(08:26:50 PM) Lao_Ban_: lawyers were just retained in Tokyo

(08:26:52 PM) Lao_Ban_: yes

(08:26:56 PM) Mantrid: So you are saying that Mark is not a good honest man?

(08:27:00 PM) Aquent: so whats the plan now?

(08:27:02 PM) anarchystar: 15:25:31 <Lao_Ban_> they were in a smoke filled room with MK figuring out how to profit from our misery -> lol sounds like a movie scene

(08:27:03 PM) Lao_Ban_: there will be a push for them to sponsor a plan

(08:27:18 PM) esse-: really.. thats kinda neat

(08:27:31 PM) anarchystar: okcoin is solid.. i will back that

(08:27:37 PM) esse-: have you been in contact with OKCoin Lao_Ban_?

(08:27:42 PM) Lao_Ban_: yes

(08:27:59 PM) Lao_Ban_: i have been talking to them for a couple weeks, they are creditors

(08:28:02 PM) Aquent: what do they plan to do now?

(08:28:08 PM) Mantrid: What about the news today, they might back off now?

(08:28:12 PM) Lao_Ban_: the CEO MingXing (Star) Xu is a creditor of Gox

(08:28:15 PM) Starduster: and what a timing with bans in china for okcoin

(08:28:23 PM) Lao_Ban_: this is good for them

(08:28:26 PM) esse-: Lao_Ban_, creditor in the sense of having coins with gox?

(08:28:30 PM) Lao_Ban_: this is partly why it makes sense

(08:28:31 PM) esse-: or an investor

(08:28:33 PM) Lao_Ban_: esse-: yes

(08:28:34 PM) scalability-junk: anarchystar> okcoin is solid.. i will back that <-- I would probably second that

(08:28:40 PM) Lao_Ban_: he had a few hunded coins there

(08:28:54 PM) Lao_Ban_: same with everyone else from OkCoin that I have talked to here

(08:29:00 PM) esse-: well this is good news

(08:29:11 PM) esse-: so are they formulating a plan atm?

(08:29:26 PM) Lao_Ban_: yes

(08:29:34 PM) Lao_Ban_: I can give you the basics of it

(08:29:37 PM) scalability-junk: Crowdfunding for outbidding sunlot... :D

(08:29:40 PM) Lao_Ban_: debt equity swap

(08:29:43 PM) Hugo2: <esse-> well this is good news <- first real good news in a long time

(08:29:52 PM) Lao_Ban_: 49% go to creditors

(08:30:03 PM) scalability-junk: Lao_Ban_: payout of 20% of the assets?

(08:30:05 PM) Lao_Ban_: the remaining assets get put into accounts and are available when the exchange opens

(08:30:13 PM) anarchystar: nice

(08:30:16 PM) Mantrid: I really question how Okcon can be interested, given that PBOC really wants to shut down btc in china completely

(08:30:18 PM) scalability-junk: what about the profit issue?

(08:30:19 PM) Lao_Ban_: you can withdraw them as fast as technically allowable

(08:30:36 PM) anarchystar: Mantrid: maybe they want to move to japan :)

(08:30:45 PM) anarchystar: they have both markets though.. china and western

(08:30:45 PM) esse-: ~

(08:30:45 PM) Lao_Ban_: they are going to put up $1M of cash for now and sell other shares to raise more capital as needed

(08:30:46 PM) Lao_Ban_: but

(08:30:47 PM) anarchystar: could be huge

(08:30:49 PM) scalability-junk: btc as btc and fiat as fiat? how is it determined?

(08:30:54 PM) Lao_Ban_: resources can be provided aside from cash

(08:30:56 PM) b4epoche: For people with fiat currency at Gox, who will that be handled?

(08:31:02 PM) Lao_Ban_: and technology can be licensed

(08:31:10 PM) Lao_Ban_: as for the bitcoin/fiat issue

(08:31:16 PM) Lao_Ban_: i was going to propose this

(08:31:16 PM) anarchystar: i will buy some shares

(08:31:30 PM) Lao_Ban_: take the average price of a bitcoin from jan 31 to now and use that

(08:31:30 PM) anarchystar: can i swap my debt for shares?

(08:31:38 PM) anarchystar: 5 million? ;)

(08:31:55 PM) Lao_Ban_: anarchystar: I will have to ask Xu, but I am pretty sure this will be okay

(08:32:02 PM) Lao_Ban_: I will back it for sure

(08:32:11 PM) b4epoche: I sold my BTC (on Gox) before they went down and only had fiat there

(08:32:29 PM) Hugo2: Lao_Ban_, again, thanks for your time, for the people who can not be there, you are helping a lot

(08:32:37 PM) Lao_Ban_: there will be people who had fiat only an btc only, the big issue is how to value bitcoin

(08:32:49 PM) Lao_Ban_: Hugo2: thanks man, its my pleasure to be a part of this

(08:32:52 PM) Aquent: why not just return them as btc

(08:32:56 PM) b4epoche: Lao_Ban_: gotcha

(08:33:20 PM) Lao_Ban_: there is not an exact ratio of btc/fiat to users owed btc/fiat

(08:33:28 PM) Lao_Ban_: if that makes sense

(08:33:30 PM) Lao_Ban_: also

(08:33:35 PM) b4epoche: I'd obviously love to get my (fiat) money out...

(08:33:38 PM) Lao_Ban_: we need to determine who gets what percentage of shares

(08:33:52 PM) Lao_Ban_: so bitcoin needs a value on it for the shares

(08:33:53 PM) Aquent: you can treat them as separate

(08:34:03 PM) Aquent: btc balances get % of btc assets

(08:34:09 PM) Aquent: fiat balances get % of fiat assets

(08:34:24 PM) Aquent: ohh yeah for the shares

(08:34:28 PM) b4epoche: wouldn't that be bad for btc holders?

(08:34:34 PM) anarchystar: Lao_Ban_: will okcoin cooperate with community to release all info on hack? like where the btc got sent etc? i think with croud effort we can find out

(08:34:43 PM) b4epoche: I know they lost fiat, but didn't they lose more btc?

(08:35:20 PM) Hugo2: b4epoche, yes

(08:35:33 PM) Lao_Ban_: anarchystar: yes they will. The Chinese I have spoken with on that side have been very concerned about this

(08:35:43 PM) Lao_Ban_: the first thing that has to happen is an audit

(08:35:52 PM) esse-: Lao_Ban_, do they have to submit this proposal before tuesday? that was the deadline if i recall right

(08:36:03 PM) Lao_Ban_: there is no deadline

(08:36:11 PM) Lao_Ban_: but we will want a meeting with the supervisor next week

(08:36:20 PM) Lao_Ban_: there is no hard deadline i should say

(08:36:25 PM) esse-: really ok

(08:36:27 PM) Lao_Ban_: from what I understand

(08:36:34 PM) Lao_Ban_: but we still need to move fast

(08:36:46 PM) scalability-junk: Lao_Ban_: alright btc valued at the average price over various markets and since the trouble started... 1 Jan 2014?

(08:37:04 PM) esse-: [12:38] <Dr-G2> but why now, shaded said next tuesday sponsors have to make their plans public

(08:37:08 PM) Lao_Ban_: I would say Jan 31 2014, but it is open for debate for the time being

(08:37:12 PM) esse-: so what is shaded really referring to there..

(08:37:30 PM) Lao_Ban_: i have no idea what he is talking about

(08:37:35 PM) scalability-junk: Lao_Ban_: so what's the exact plan?

(08:37:45 PM) Aquent: shaded ddint know court ordered liquidation yesterday

(08:37:50 PM) anarchystar: shaded also said they have 70% which is bs

(08:37:51 PM) Lao_Ban_: this coming from someone who was paid to come in here after Sun Lot claims he has 70% of our support

(08:37:52 PM) anarchystar: its all bs

(08:38:01 PM) Aquent: he thought there would be another hearing next week where liquidation or rehab is decidd

(08:38:07 PM) scalability-junk: use all btc and give them pro rata to btc holders, use fiat assets and give them pro rata to fiat holders

(08:38:08 PM) esse-: ok I will just wipe everything shaded has said from my memory and star afresh

(08:38:16 PM) Aquent: i dont know how gox managed to get abrankruptcy hearing without any creditor being notified

(08:38:37 PM) scalability-junk: the remaining debt of btc and fiat will then be valued in fiat and swapped pro rata (fiat value) for shares of the 49%

(08:38:42 PM) Aquent: isnt that some procedural irregularity?

(08:39:11 PM) Lao_Ban_: you guys get the remaining assets funded to your account, get shares in the new company totaling 49%

(08:39:21 PM) Lao_Ban_: in exchange for the existing debt

(08:39:34 PM) scalability-junk: yeah but remaining assets... is open for debate

(08:39:45 PM) Aquent: how would okcoin get the assets from the liquidator?

(08:39:46 PM) anarchystar: insider trading you mean scalability-junk ?

(08:39:47 PM) scalability-junk: but btc pro rata for btc and same for fiat as I said?

(08:39:51 PM) Callezetter: and % of the profit or? Can we trade the shares?

(08:39:51 PM) Mantrid: can shares be traded between the accounts?

(08:39:53 PM) Lao_Ban_: OkCoin has also talked about giving an annual dividend for the first few years of 10%, but we have not decided 100%

(08:40:00 PM) samson_: I would have thought there is a procedure error there somewhere. Often a creditor will buy out someone who's going bankrupt

(08:40:13 PM) Lao_Ban_: there may be more there to discuss, but they we want to do that

(08:40:27 PM) scalability-junk: anarchystar: if you are referring to my rumor about mark and sunlot plotting to buy up cheap virtual coins, yes insider trading.

(08:40:41 PM) anarchystar: scalability-junk: yes im also very worried about that

(08:40:56 PM) anarchystar: scalability-junk: we need to look at all the big traders in the last days/weeks

(08:41:06 PM) Lao_Ban_: i agree one hundred percent there

(08:41:16 PM) scalability-junk: Lao_Ban_: if there is evidence of insidertrading I would suggest freezing these accounts aka sunlot, mark (rumor)

(08:41:17 PM) samson_: In a hostile takeover scenario of a private company a creditor could lure a company into debt only to have them liquidated and buy them from the administrator - anything's possible

(08:41:30 PM) anarchystar: obviously i would never trust these savegox guys who are the actual insiders to do that.. lol

(08:41:34 PM) anarchystar: but okcoin.. sure

(08:41:51 PM) esse-: savegox .. or the worlds biggest exchange :D

(08:41:52 PM) esse-: hmm

(08:41:54 PM) Lao_Ban_: think about if the savegox guys had their way where we would be

(08:41:54 PM) anarchystar: no connection to mark afaik

(08:42:13 PM) anarchystar: mtgox 2.0 (even worse)

(08:42:27 PM) samson_: php v6, much bettern than php5

(08:42:30 PM) scalability-junk: Lao_Ban_: so I would probably push to not use % of profits for dividend. (unreliable as hell) probably more worthwhile to say 1-5% of fees/etc.

(08:42:31 PM) Lao_Ban_: theyd have 40M USD or so of our money to experimen with an exchange and no obligation to pay us back for years, our money locked up for a year

(08:42:31 PM) samson_: lol

(08:42:41 PM) scalability-junk: profit can go back into equity wealth

(08:43:02 PM) Lao_Ban_: scalability-junk: I dont disagree, we want to make sure people get compensated aside from an increase in share price

(08:43:21 PM) Lao_Ban_: but obv one way to get money is to sell your shares

(08:43:28 PM) Lao_Ban_: contact a stock broker

(08:43:35 PM) Lao_Ban_: he will take ten percent and will find a buyer

(08:43:46 PM) Lao_Ban_: or you can probably find someone on irc to buy them, or reddit

(08:43:51 PM) zewelor: anarchystar: are there anywhere on the www leaked data from gox ? I remember some strange withdraws on one big acscount after gox stopped withdraws, maybe thats the account to look at ...

(08:43:52 PM) scalability-junk: Lao_Ban_: that's expensive for small holders. % of fees is a much better solution for them.

(08:44:00 PM) Lao_Ban_: ill handle the paperwork for a small fee :-D

(08:44:18 PM) Aquent: or maybe the new exchange can offer share buying selling service too? or someone else set up an exchange for selling buying gox shares if legal

(08:44:19 PM) zewelor: Lao_Ban_: maybe just make tradeable pair on new exchange ?

(08:44:21 PM) Mantrid: what do you think will happen to ppl who have goxcoin on bitcoinbuildder

(08:44:29 PM) Lao_Ban_: we cant offer share buying or selling yet

(08:44:33 PM) Lao_Ban_: regulation is heavy

(08:44:43 PM) Lao_Ban_: but no reason why you cant sell on the private market

(08:45:16 PM) zerwas: Mantrid: how many goxcoins are in the hand of bitcoinbuilder?

(08:45:25 PM) Aquent: in regards to this 202k btc - what hapens now? Liquidator has to return them to individual creditors or can he give em to okcoin to distribute?

(08:45:27 PM) Lao_Ban_: Mantrid: that is a good question. We will have to await the audit results, but obv we want to untangle that mess and cash people out

(08:45:30 PM) anarchystar: zewelor: besides what was leaked for pre 2014 i have no idea

(08:45:37 PM) zewelor: Lao_Ban_: anyway looks like you are brining great news

(08:45:39 PM) Mantrid: i would think Josh has something like 5-10k in his account

(08:45:52 PM) Lao_Ban_: Aquent: if he accepts OkCoin's plan, he would give them to OkCoin for us

(08:46:02 PM) zewelor: anarchystar: i mean that last leak, there was some www website where everything was parsed nicely

(08:46:02 PM) Lao_Ban_: otherwise, they will be sold to the highest bidder

(08:46:09 PM) Aquent: he can legaly to dthat?

(08:46:15 PM) Lao_Ban_: Aquent: yes

(08:46:19 PM) zewelor: and there was some account with withdraws up to 10th of march something like that

(08:46:23 PM) zewelor: weird

(08:46:35 PM) anarchystar: zewelor: yes thats very wierd.. worth looking into

(08:46:36 PM) Lao_Ban_: zewlor: I am trying

(08:46:46 PM) scalability-junk: Lao_Ban_: so we have btc assets payed pro rata, fiat assets payed pro rata, remaining debt will be valued at average coin price since Jan 1 2014 and swaped with equity (49%). Repayed assets will be open for withdrawal instantly. Additionally a dividend of 2-5% of fees/income could be payed as a dividend directly into the accounts holding the equity.

(08:46:46 PM) scalability-junk: Additionally equity prices can rise. Trading equity could be done via brokers or better via the new exchange as virtual tokens (rights for dividends)

(08:46:50 PM) Lao_Ban_: there is stll a lot to do

(08:46:53 PM) zewelor: even if the withdraws didnt went, how would it be possible to make then ? on www withdras were disabled

(08:47:05 PM) zewelor: it was some big account in top 20 afair

(08:47:17 PM) zewelor: but now the webiste with that data is down :\

(08:47:20 PM) scalability-junk: Audit, freeze insidertrading accounts.

(08:47:25 PM) Lao_Ban_: scalability-junk: I do not believe the virtual token idea is legal

(08:48:03 PM) Lao_Ban_: there are enough regulatory hurdles in running a bitcoin exchange, i think that risk would need to be avoided

(08:48:11 PM) scalability-junk: Lao_Ban_: was just a suggestion. But aren't there already legal examples with mastercoin or something similar?

(08:48:19 PM) Lao_Ban_: the issue is this

(08:48:23 PM) Aquent: right well if you meeting with liquidator ask him why creditor meeting is in 3 months rather than say 4 weeks

(08:48:26 PM) Lao_Ban_: rights attach to the token

(08:48:28 PM) Lao_Ban_: making it a security

(08:48:38 PM) Lao_Ban_: if sold on a trading engine

(08:48:42 PM) Lao_Ban_: its a stock market

(08:48:47 PM) Lao_Ban_: regulation out the ass

(08:48:57 PM) Lao_Ban_: its too much for now

(08:49:00 PM) Aquent: I mean we could decide at the creditor meeting for okcoin rehab I guess - so why wait 3 months

(08:49:21 PM) Lao_Ban_: the first step is talking with the Supervisor

(08:49:24 PM) scalability-junk: Lao_Ban_: yeah probably best to enable that in a later stage and push it to a coin backed ipo (dreaming)

(08:49:28 PM) Lao_Ban_: we will do that next week

(08:49:34 PM) anarchystar: if court wont stop bankruptcy we can still approve okcoin taking over for a fair price, as creditors

(08:49:47 PM) Lao_Ban_: scalability-junk: anything is possible down the road if we succeed

(08:49:47 PM) anarchystar: but its in liquidation then

(08:49:50 PM) anarchystar: better than nothing

(08:50:19 PM) Lao_Ban_: we have options, but we are admittedly getting to the game late

(08:50:35 PM) Lao_Ban_: nonetheless, this is a slow process

(08:50:46 PM) Aquent: yeh I'm not sure if this is right - but I think at the creditor meeting creditors can decide to discharge liquidator and appoint okcoin

(08:50:47 PM) anarchystar: id rather have okcoin buy it through bankruptcy (in case its too late for rehab) instead of some other firm who wont give us the 49% etc

(08:50:50 PM) scalability-junk: Lao_Ban_: being to the game late doesn't always matter as history has shown.

(08:50:54 PM) wiz: Lao_Ban_ why didn't you come to my drinking party

(08:50:55 PM) wiz: :(

(08:51:28 PM) Lao_Ban_: wiz: I was busy cuttting a deal with OkCoin

(08:51:48 PM) Lao_Ban_: hopefully next weekend we will have something to celebrate

(08:51:57 PM) scalability-junk: will mark ever receive a dime from selling his shares? Or are his shares worthless and they sort of transferred to creditors?

(08:52:11 PM) Mantrid: worried about Mark?

(08:52:12 PM) Lao_Ban_: mark has 78000 bitcoins

(08:52:18 PM) Lao_Ban_: owned by tibanne on gox

(08:52:26 PM) Lao_Ban_: he is likely the biggest creditor

(08:52:28 PM) wiz: this is a public channel

(08:52:34 PM) wiz: why are you talking about that lol

(08:52:54 PM) Mantrid: why not

(08:52:59 PM) Aquent: anarchystar can sue mark and make him bankrupt :P

(08:53:11 PM) anarchystar: Aquent: yes working on it ;)

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