I wasn’t expecting another interview with Ishida, since there will already be a bunch with him and the artists in the TG compilation album, but here we are. Very interesting discussion on Ishida and TK’s creative processes, so I highly recommend reading it!

If I’ve made a mistake or mistranslated something, please let me know.

Original interview can be found here.

Ishida × TK from Ling Tosite Sigure - Everyone is suffering and fighting against something

[Tokyo Ghoul AUTHENTIC SOUND CHRONICLE Compiled by Sui Ishida]

Interview text by: Kaneko Atsutake

Editing by: Yajima Yukako (CINRA.NET Editorial Department)

The Tokyo Ghoul anime reached its conclusion late last year after being broadcasted over 4 cours. The compilation album “Tokyo Ghoul AUTHENTIC SOUND CHRONICLE Compiled by Sui Ishida” that assembles the theme songs from the anime sets itself apart from the typical anime soundtrack. As the phrase “Compiled by Sui Ishida” implies, the author of the original work Ishida Sui himself was responsible for directing and curating the songs used in the anime. From the lineup of recording artists including TK from Ling Tosite Sigure, People In The Box, österreich, amazarashi, Cö shu Nie and Ziyoou-vachi, Ishida’s ideas and Tokyo Ghoul’s view of the world are conveyed in a distinct manner.

What each of these artists have in common are, to borrow Ishida’s words, “the impression that they are fighting against something,” and to borrow TK’s words, “scraping away a part of themselves to give birth to their creations.” As Ishida states during the interview, he projected himself too much onto his protagonist Kaneki Ken, and during the serialization of his manga he physically and mentally drove himself into a corner. However, it may be safe to say that the intensity of confronting oneself in a way that only creative works can possess is what led to Tokyo Ghoul becoming such a huge hit.

I asked Ishida and TK, who provided the two songs “unravel” and “katharsis” for the anime, to speak about each of their creations and their approach when it comes to confronting themselves.

When I heard about the compilation album, I was reminded once again that it’s rare for an anime to have theme songs that clearly reflect the vision of the original author.

Ishida: At first I didn’t know much about how anime theme songs were decided. I’m pretty sure it’s something like, “The partner company is here, let’s work with this artist,” but when the anime was green-lit, I just kept repeating, “This is what I like, I want to work with this artist.”

TK: I think what’s unique about Tokyo Ghoul is how well its musical appeal can be expressed. I don’t know how it works, it might just be nothing more than conveying what you love, but it’s probably surprisingly rare for the music and the original work it was derived from to be linked in such a genuine way.

What’s more, that musical appeal of Tokyo Ghoul has been conveyed worldwide. There’s a ton of cover songs uploaded on YouTube after all.

“unravel” (opening theme of the TV anime “Tokyo Ghoul”) placed 3rd on “Most Played Songs of Domestic Artists Overseas in 2018″ presented by Spotify.



Ishida: TK-san, have you seen the cover videos on YouTube?

TK: They get sent to me if it stands out. Sometimes they’re already up only a day after the original song is released. A pretty amazing feat even if it’s just replicating the song (laughs). Whenever I see that, I can really feel just how much of an influence and pull Sui-san has.

When I was asked if I could listen to the album, I felt that the lineup was very consistent with Sui-san’s feelings, despite each band having their own different philosophy. Ling Tosite Sigure and People In The Box (hence referred to as “People”) are completely different. People and Ziyoou-vachi are completely different, but I can tell that Sui-san felt something from them. It’s because you can see the work and the people behind it, that I became interested.

I’m not really interested in omnibuses, after all (laughs). If the selections aren’t made with a clear intention in mind, it just becomes a jumbled mess.

Ishida: I agree.

TK: But when I think about how your manga was born and grew together with these songs, I can listen to the flow of them in great depth. I thought it was fascinating how it feels like these songs embody Tokyo Ghoul from beginning to end.

Sui-san, did you have some sort of criteria when deciding which artists you wanted to participate?

Ishida: At first I was thinking of a “person who looks like they’ve suffered, with an androgynous voice” kind of image…but that went out the window because of groups like Cö shu Nie…a serious disposition then? As if they’ve been fighting against something. I have that feeling inside me too, so I feel like this is my way of empathizing with them.

TK: When I’m listening to an album, it feels like a part of themselves is being scraped off no mater what song I’m listening to. Even though Ziyoou-vachi’s sound is very upbeat, you can feel how delicate Avu-chan’s (Ziyoou-vachi’s vocals) voice is. You can definitely hear it in each song, whether it be fighting or suffering.

TK: It seems like this time you’ll be talking with various people (the CD booklets contain conversations between Ishida and all artists participating in the album. The conversation with TK contains a different version than the one shown in this interview). I’m sure you’ll be talking a lot about creative works and music with the others, so I thought I’d talk about something else, are you fine with that? (laughs) I think even the people who love Tokyo Ghoul don’t know anything at all about Sui-san as a person…though I’m not in a position where I can talk about people (laughs).

Ishida: Yeah. I want to hear about you instead (laughs).

TK: But I’m worried about you. Didn’t you mention once before that you were only eating chicken tenders?

Ishida: Yeah, I remember. There was one time where I didn’t take in any carbohydrates and only lived off of chicken tenders. And recently I’ve been eating paprika raw.

TK: You’ve on a whole new level now (laughs).

Ishida: And after, something like celery. I began thinking I needed to eat more vegetables, but because cooking is such a hassle, I’ve been eating anything that looks nutritious raw like celery or paprika. It’s not like I’m eating a ton of it, I’m just standing around for a bit munching on paprika every now and then (laughs).

TK: Munching on paprika every now and then, what kind of life is that? (laughs)

Ishida: I’m sitting down all day since I’m writing, drawing, and doing menial tasks for long periods of time. So the stimulation from standing up and walking around eating something reduces my stress and passes some time.

TK: Do you complete your work in your studio?

Ishida: I wouldn’t call it a studio, but yes, when I shut myself in there I do. When I was serializing my manga weekly I wouldn’t have any time to go out, so I’d move around as much as possible inside the house, or even walk a block around the neighbourhood for a few minutes. That was my life.

Between when your manga was being serialized and now, your pace of life must have changed as well.

Ishida: It’s completely changed. I have so much free time now (laughs).

TK: Have your thought patterns changed? Yesterday I just completed my next song “P.S. RED I” but while I was working on it I was constantly thinking, “What do I do about the lyrics? How can I arrange the instrumentals while I’m doing the mixing?” That song took up most of my brain space, but when I’m not doing anything creative my thought patterns drastically change.

To me it feels like serialization goes on forever, so my concern is about the thought patterns during that period. Plus when that suddenly comes to a stop, would you be struck by a sense of emptiness, or the contrary, where the next thing you want to work on will appear right in front of your eyes? I wonder which one it would be.

Ishida: I was emotionally unstable every day soon after my series ended. The moment I finished I was like, “Is it over?” and I was in bewilderment for half a day or so until it finally sank in and the next day I was thinking, “I did it! It’s really over!” Instead of feeling accomplished, I felt free because I didn’t have to draw anymore (laughs).

But that feeling lasted for a few days, and after I became scared since I didn’t have anything to do now. “Huh? What am I supposed to do now?” While I was serializing my manga I was so sleepy that if I laid down I could pass out in two seconds. But now that it was over, I couldn’t sleep because I was so tired, and I ended up having insomnia for about a month.

TK: So your next idea didn’t come to you right away.

Ishida: That’s right. Rather, I came up with concepts during my serialization. The busier I was, the more I wanted to do something else, the more I wanted to draw another manga. While my manga was serialized in Weekly Young Jump, I’d say weird things in my head like, “I wonder if this can’t be serialized in Weekly Shounen Jump?” (laughs) I might have a hot idea and think, “I want to build more on this,” but once your serialization ends, that incredible feeling disappears.

TK-san, how do you feel once you’ve finished a piece?

TK: That I’ll never be able to make another one again. That’s what I’ve been thinking ever since the second album (released in 2007). Since the title of that album is “Inspiration is DEAD” (laughs).

Ishida: Really!? (laughs)

TK: I’ve started thinking about it again recently, but it’s something that I’ve always thought about for a long time. But now I’ve come full circle and started to think the contrary, “What if it [inspiration] might not be dead?”

But I think it’s true that it’s when you’re chasing after something that inspiration really hits you. Since my mind is moving at a lightning speed right before finishing a piece, it’s during those last moments that I find lots of things I didn’t notice before. And because I can’t bring myself to overlook them, I end up saying, “Give me another hour.”

Ishida: I totally understand. I always end up noticing or adding in new things right before the deadline.

TK: Every time I think, “Why didn’t I notice this in the beginning?”, but it’s never noticeable then. There’s certain revelations that unfortunately only come at the very end.

Ishida: It is unfortunate.

In the beginning we talked about having “fighting against something” in common, and Sui-san said, “We don’t know what we’re fighting against.” But if you think about it, I wonder if it can be phrased as “fighting against ourselves” or “confronting ourselves”. What do you think, TK-san?

[T/N: This wasn’t mentioned in this interview, so they may have been talking about this during the other Ishida x TK interview that will be in the TG compilation album.]

TK: I don’t think there’s anything like that inside of me.

Ishida: Oh really?

TK: “Can I create music from within my empty self?” That’s where I’m starting from.

I mentioned earlier about how once I’ve finished creating a piece, I think about how I won’t be able to do it again the next time. But by then I’ve dug deep down into myself, deep down to the very bottom, grabbed everything I can, and after coming back up to the surface, I’m in a state where I’m devoid of anything inside me. I’ve been gradually digging deeper, digging in different places, and just barely writing new pieces. It feels like I’ve dug all the way to Brazil once I’ve finished digging (laughs).

Ishida: You’re gonna split Brazil in half (laughs).

TK: If I’m given a story based off an anime like now, I can just throw myself out there because the story already exists. But when I’m making my own creation starting from scratch, I have to confront my empty self and start asking myself, “What do I want to create?”

That’s why I’m so happy once I’ve grabbed onto something, and the moment I think, “This might be it,” I feel like I’ve been saved. That’s when I’m truly able to feel that I still have something I want to hold on to.

Can Tokyo Ghoul also be considered a work that you’ve dug deep into yourself in order to draw?

Ishida: Tokyo Ghoul is a work that almost has a “me, myself and I” kind of mentality. I should’ve just tried drawing an ordinary manga from the start. Like an average everyday manga (laughs).

I didn’t know much about manga, I just wanted to start my manga right away without any self-reflection. But when I started drawing it, I had to face myself a lot more than I expected. I found it very tiresome, not understanding the nature of my roots, not being able to draw unless I dug into myself in various ways.

TK: What volume were you on when you realized that?

Ishida: I think it was a bit before OG volume 7? I was very conscious of it in volume 7, so I decided that I had to suffer. I came up with the idea of torturing Kaneki, and because I thought I wouldn’t be able to draw it if I didn’t do the same to myself, I drove myself into a corner.

How did you do that?

Ishida: To put it simply, by just not sleeping and working non-stop. At the time, I slept so little that I’d lost my sense of taste. But I thought that by doing that I’d get closer to Kaneki, so I continued to step it up, letting it become a part of me more and more, until I was no longer in the right state to draw manga. Actually, there was a time where I was just barely drawing for a while. That was the first time I thought that creating was dreadful.

TK: To me it feels like what you experienced up to your sixth volume is similar to my experience with my first album. For my first album, because I was drawing on a blank canvas, I could create freely without a thought. Because at first there was definitely something on the canvas that I could see, it could take form if I placed something there.

However, once you’ve got something down in the middle of the canvas, when you start drawing on it again, it’ll depend on my choices as to how to expand the canvas, where I should draw.

Ishida: I see.

TK: There was this one moment where although Kaneki had looked in front of him until now, he could no longer see what he wanted to do because he had retreated deep into himself. I think that’s close to how I felt regarding my second album.

After all, it’s really difficult to continue on from there. In my case, it’s whenever I’m writing a new album, but in the case of manga, when I think about how you have to write a new chapter every week…it leaves a weird taste in my mouth.

This may be hasty to ask, but now that it’s been a while since your series has ended along the anime having concluded, how are you thinking about the concept of your next work?

Ishida: I won’t have an easy time starting it if I don’t have a firm objective in mind. I know it’ll be difficult for me to get started, so I need a really good reason and some degree of preparation.

Isayama Hajime of Attack on Titan also says something similar in “Jounetsu Tairiku”.* He said, “But I probably have to start over again,” and I thought, “Is that so, that sucks.” (laughs) So right now I’m in the middle of searching for a reason, the significance of it, my next motivation.

[T/N: “Jounetsu Tairiku” is a documentary. Isayama had an interview with them back in November 2018 which included talking about Attack on Titan’s final arc.]

TK-san, once you made your first album and felt empty for the first time, what did you find was important to help you move on and start your next work?

TK: It’s really tough for me since I have to scrape off a part of myself when creating something, but I feel very strongly that I only exist in my songs or during live concerts. I’ve got the sense that I really might disappear if I quit, so I can’t stop.

Even if I say I feel empty, if my empty self disappears, then I truly will disappear. I think it’s also different from motivation, but it’s because I feel that way at a cellular level that I can continue to keep making my next piece.

End of the interview.