Skeptic Legend: Interview with Ray Hyman

Ray Hyman’s accomplishments on behalf of science, science advocacy, and skepticism are legion- enough to fill many pages. I will forego a list up front, partly because the interview proper discusses them and partly because the external links at the end do a far better job than I could. What really impresses me about Mr. Hyman is, in a word, class. He has a reputation for being respected and even liked by his academic and skeptical cohorts, but also by the parapsychology claimants he has so often criticized. He has, to an astonishing degree, internalized and behaved according to the scientific precepts of objective consideration and the detangling of ego and truth. In his written works and public appearances, he is consistently far more concerned with fomenting reason than agreement; he cultivates understanding while most of us chase mindshare. If James Randi is skepticism’s much-needed sentinel-sheriff, Ray Hyman is an impartial judge & jury, injecting some honesty and fairness in a factious land.

Skeptic Ink: You are one of the prominent figures in the history of contemporary skepticism, along with James Randi and Martin Gardner and others. First off, please briefly explain how you got involved, given your background as a mentalist and magician, and your long academic career as a psychologist.

Ray Hyman: I did my first magic show for money at age 7. A few years later I read a biography about Houdini. In addition to his feats as an escape artist and his career as a magician, the biography highlighted his efforts at debunking spirit mediums and phony psychics. From reading this book, I assumed that being a magician entailed investigating and debunking psychic claims. So, as far back as I can remember, I always believed that I should investigate, understand, and challenge paranormal claims. Beginning in the 1950s, I began writing for both lay and professional audiences on paranormal claims. Since that time, I have served on government and professional committees investigating paranormal and controversial claims.

In December, 1972, I was sent by the Advanced Research Projects Agency of the Defense Department to look at the experiments that two physicists at the Stanford Research Institute were conducting with Uri Geller. Soon after that Randi, acting as one of the reporters from Time Magazine, saw Geller perform his stunts. These encounters with Geller prompted Randi to meet with me in 1973 to discuss the possibility of forming an organization to help protect both scientists and the public from such scams.

Martin Gardner, Randi and I formed an organization we called SIR (an acronym that stood for “Sanity in Research.” SIR was an anagram of SRI (Stanford Research Institute). In 1976, SIR joined forces with Paul Kurtz and a few others to create CSICOP (The Committee for the Scientific Investigation of Claims of the Paranormal). And the rest is history.

SI You have a reputation for being one of the “fair-minded skeptics.” Do you think the skeptics movement is sometimes too closed-minded about paranormal or fringe-science claims?

RH Most people who call themselves “skeptics”(as well as believers) are closed-minded, dogmatic, and militant in their beliefs. The word “skeptic” has a variety of meanings. Historically and philosophically, it refers to a person who withholds judgment about a claim until a preponderance of evidence accumulates either for or against it. Once the person takes a position about a claim, he/she is no longer skeptical with respect to the claim, but is dogmatic (not necessarily in a pejorative sense). The public and our critics equate skepticism with denialism and negativism. The media thrive on controversy and sharp distinctions between believers and “skeptics.” They find the reasoned, and non-dogmatic, arguments of true skeptics too subtle for their tastes.

SI Your influential essay “Proper Criticism” lists eight points of advice (see aside below) for fairly engaging believers. Do you think the message is as relevant to the skeptics movement today as it was when you first published it in your book The Elusive Quarry and in the pages of Skeptical Inquirer magazine?

RH Yes.

SI Are there any aspects of pseudoscience or the paranormal that you feel the scientific community has conclusively resolved and that therefore merit no further critical attention?

RH I am not sure I understand this question. I think a more meaningful question would be: “Are there any aspects of pseudoscience or the paranormal that you feel the scientific community should consider for scientific investigation?” My answer would be, “No.” The program for parapsychology is incoherent.

Psychical research, which is the original name for what is now called parapsychology, was initiated with the specific goal to scientifically demonstrate that there are phenomena that cannot be captured by science. As such, the program has been incoherent from the start. Parapsychologists have no positive theory or model of the phenomena they claim to be studying. What they call “psi” is defined and identified negatively. They claim having demonstrated the existence of “psi” whenever they obtain a statistically significant result which cannot be readily explained by mundane causes. This strategy has many undesirable problems from a scientific perspective. For one thing, it is impossible to discover every possible normal cause in a particular experiment. For another, this allows them to claim any departure from chance as evidence for psi.

SI In your interview (below) a couple years ago with D.J. Grothe, when National Capital Area Skeptics presented you with the Phillip J Klass Award for your outstanding contributions in promoting critical thinking and scientific understanding, you seemed to suggest that if Randi and you have had different approaches in dealing with paranormalists, you now believe his approach is better for public education (his approach being more directly confrontational as opposed to the more tentative, academic approach you have taken). Do you still hold this view?

RH I am an academic. My typical audience consists of academics and scholars who often are suspicious of what they see as Randi’s theatrics and negativism. Although some of my academic friends are great fans of Randi, most find his approach off-putting. I have found that for most of my audiences, a less confrontational and rational approach is more successful. For the general public, however, I have no doubts that Randi’s approach succeeds very well.

SI There have been many controversies over the years of organized skepticism, including disagreements about the proper scope of skepticism, and the role of atheism, social justice movements, and politics within the skeptics movement. Do you think that the scientific skepticism has something relevant to say to the world of politics, religion and social justice movements?

RH I am a strong believer that the scientific method is the only reliable and trustworthy method for achieving knowledge. Many questions and issues that occupy politics, religion, social justice and related movements cannot be answered by scientific investigation. Some obviously can. Still others, which previously were thought to be outside the purview of science, later become tractable. What disturbs me is how often these disciplines make claims that can and should be settled by empirical scientific investigations. For example, many Republicans have campaigned on platforms that claim that climate change is an issue that can be settled by political fiat. Religion often attempts to overrule scientific evidence on issues such as creation, birth, abortion, etc. I have been quite dismayed at how many religious, social science and other individuals have been demonizing science and declaring that scientific knowledge is merely a matter of social and political consensus.

Skeptic Ink thanks Mr. Hyman for the interview.

Read more about Ray Hyman

Wikipedia

CSICOP Articles

University of Oregon Professor Emeritus