Amid news that Donald Trump has once again traded an old lawyer for a new one, former Defense Secretary Leon Panetta said that no matter what, he’s headed for an interview with special counsel Robert Mueller.

“It clearly is crunch time with regards to the Mueller investigation,” the onetime White House chief of staff told CNN’s Wolf Blitzter on Wednesday. “I think they’ve reached a point where, very frankly, they’re not going to be able to conclude this investigation without the testimony of the president of the United States.”

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Amid a week full of Russia investigation bombshells that includes the revelation of Mueller’s Trump interview question wish list and news the special counsel at least once threatened to subpoena the president, Panetta said the revolving door of lawyers won’t stop the face-to-face meeting that’s sure to come.

“If the president wants this investigation to come to an end, it’s only going to come to an end when the president testifies to the special prosecutor,” he said. “That’s the reality, and he can change lawyer every other day, but that reality remains the same.”

Watch below, via CNN: