In the concluding panel of Vanity Fair’s fifth annual New Establishment Summit, Michael Avenatti was candid about his long-shot hopes of becoming the next Democratic presidential nominee. “You’re not going to beat Donald Trump through a message of universal love,” he told V.F.’s Emily Jane Fox, elucidating his Darwinian view of modern politics. “This guy will eat you alive.” To that end, Avenatti noted that he had launched his own political-action committee, the Fight PAC, “a few days ago,” and he is planning to announce his decision regarding a 2020 run “by the first of the year.”

Fox wasn’t the only one who was somewhat skeptical. Avenatti said his mother, too, balked when he told her he was seriously considering a White House bid. But, he explained, “sometimes it’s bigger than yourself.” As for any potential skeletons in Avenatti’s closet, the charismatic superlawyer acknowledged that he hadn’t lived a prefect live.

In the 90s, he had gotten into politics, worked as an opposition researcher, and even avoided buying foreign cars in case he decided to run for office, himself. But he eventually left the campaign trail to focus on a legal career—and lived his life as if he would never return. “Unlike Brett Kavanaugh I wasn’t focused on walking little old ladies across the street,” he joked. “I think everyone’s got some baby skeletons rolling around under the floorboards.” But compared to the president, he said, “I’m a saint.”