Leafeon said: He definitely did not say that. You took it out of context.



Anyways I would question Yoshi's Island being a starter. And I'm going to assume you mean pokemon stadium 2, not pokemon stadium. If you're talking about ignoring certain attributes of stages take a look at Yoshi's Island again, and don't just say "it's medium sized, so it should be a starter." Fits great in your theoretical 1S 3M 1L starter list but doesn't actually work well as a starter I'm afraid. Click to expand...

"i think we should stop categorizing stages as much. when i say we should have 2 small stages in the full set, its a relative thing and not a category. the difference in practice is negligible but in this thread it sounds like a much bigger deal than it really is. really, how much bigger is PS2 than smashville? does it really matter? probably not in most cases." -UmbreonHe said that people are categorizing stages too much. My argument more applies to starter lists, but it kind of applies to the large stages as well. In his list (and I recognize other people had input), both his starter list and his full list favors larger stages. You can argue that will be the best we can get or the impact isn't that significance, but I believe we can do better (especially next patch if we could get some changes). I would argue that the length PS2 and its lower ceiling matters and is definitely not negligible. That's why I want to see some reactions of YI as an actual 3rd medium starter. Others have advocated for FoD and Norfair, but FoD is closer to small anyways and shouldn't be with GHZ on a starter list. Norfair is close to being banned on grounds of being to easy to platform camp in some platform configurations. If you wanted FoD, you need to get rid of GHZ for Warioware, which works fine with Dreamland, but a lot of people don't want that (having the two most extremes on a starter list).Anyways, the way I worded it doesn't really reflect what he said or I intended, the above paragraph better shows what I meant.As for the next paragraph, I do mean PS2, my b. The debate about YI is interesting. People instantly "feel" it should be a counterpick or banned, but that goes back to what is the point of a starter. I say that what makes a stage a starter is its relation to other starter stages (for example, GHZ could be a starter, FoD could be a starter, but both would have 2 similar stages in a type we don't want 2 of the same, so we have GHZ as a starter and FoD as CP). There is nothing wrong with plenty of stages that are CP's, they just don't fit a needed mold. I would say if we deem Yoshi's Island fair for legal play and an accurate test of skill, it should be fine as a starter. It is the same length as BF/SV, has the exact same bz's as SV, a unique platform layout, and unique offstage game. It depends on what attributes are the problem for you. If it is the platform, I disagree and think it is just a new type of interaction that you aren't used to that is totally fine. If you are talking about the blargwhiches, I personally think they are fine for a starter. If you are talking about the wavy stage that isn't flat, I agree, but I still think its fine. I would love to be proven wrong and shown there is a better option, but I posted that list more for discussion and less "This is the best stage list ever, deal with it". I would like to hear what people have wrong with it.tl;dr What actually makes a stage a starterAlso, when I grabbed that quote, I also found this from Umbreon:"and frankly, i'm pretty okay putting norfair to the 5th starter and DP to the large CP. i would like a better starter for the large stage and i definitely dont think DP fits that role, but lets be real, if you dont want to get bomb camped or something you won't go to a large stage anyway. as long as its decently acceptable, its probably fine for tournament play. my real issue with norfair is that its too opened up for (MK/fox/CF/sonic style) dashdancing and chaingrabbing which makes it redundant with FD/GHZ on chaingrabbing and FD/DP for dashdancing. everything else fits 2 bans except that as far as i can tell. heres just hoping we get something better down the road." Umbreon Are you still fine with Norfair or has your opinion changed. It defnitely feels like a better starter (whatever that means) compared to YI and probably would be easier to convince people.