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INSTITUTED. I WOULD LIKE TO WELCOME FORMER FCC CHAIRMAN TOM WHEELER. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US. TOM: HELLO. EMILY: YOU HAVE SAID IT IS SHAMEFUL, A SELLOUT WHY. WHY? TOM: YOU JUST HAVE TO LISTEN TO THAT EXPLANATION THAT CHAIRMAN BY PAI JUST HAD. TRANSPARENCY IS THE SOLUTION? SO ALL THAT IS NECESSARY TO DO SOMETHING EVIL IS TO TELL YOU THAT I AM ABOUT TO DO SOMETHING EVIL. THAT DOES NOT MAKE ANY SENSE. AND THEN, OK, WHAT DO YOU DO ONCE YOU HAVE THAT INFORMATION? TO THERE'S ONLY HOUSEHOLD IN AMERICA HAVE NO OTHER CHOICE -- TWO THIRDS OF THE HOUSEHOLD IN AMERICA HAVE NO OTHER CHOICE. TO SOMEHOW CLAIM THIS IS SOME KIND OF CONSUMER PROTECTION IS A FRAUDULENT REPRESENTATION. EMILY: THEY SAY THEIR PROPOSAL IS MORE FAIR, MORE PROCONSUMER. WHAT MAKES YOU THINK IT IS THE OPPOSITE? TOM: WELL, IN THE NAME OF CONSUMER PROTECTION, THEY SAY THEY ARE NOT GOING TO PROTECT CONSUMERS. IN THE NAME OF BETTER REGULATION, THEY SAY THEY WILL TURN IT OVER TO THE FTC, BUT YET AN FCC COMMISSIONER THIS AFTERNOON TWEETED THAT EVEN IF THEY DO THAT, THE FTC DOES NOT HAVE THE AUTHORITY. THEY ARE RUNNING AWAY FROM THEIR RESPONSIBILITIES. EMILY: THE BIG CONCERN HERE IS HOW THIS IMPACTS THE HAVES AND HAVE-NOTS, THE FOLKS WHO COULD INCREASE FUTURE INNOVATION, BE RESPONSIBLE FOR FUTURE INNOVATION. HOW WOULD THIS IMPACT THE HALVES OF THE MOMENT, GOOGLE, FACEBOOK, NETFLIX? TOM: I THINK THE IMPORTANT THING IS, HOW DOES IT AFFECT EVERYBODY AND THEIR ABILITY TO GET ON THE INTERNET? AND FOR CONSUMERS TO REACH PROVIDERS AND FOR PROVIDERS TO REACH CONSUMERS. WHAT WE ARE SEEING HERE IS THE CABLE IS A -- CABLIZATION OF THE INTERNET. IF YOU LIKE YOUR CABLE COMPANY AND IN THE WAY THEY CAN CHOOSE WHAT YOU SEE AND THEY CONTINUE RAISING PRICES, YOU WILL LOVE WHAT HAPPENS UNDER THIS REPEAL BECAUSE SUDDENLY THE PEOPLE MAKING THE RULES ARE THE NETWORKS. AND THE CONSUMERS CANNOT SURVIVE WITHOUT THE NETWORKS. AND THE SERVICE PROVIDERS CANNOT SURVIVE WITHOUT THE NETWORKS. EMILY: SO HOW CAN WE HOLD ISPS ACCOUNTABLE? TOM: WELL, THAT IS WHAT WE DID IN OUR OPEN INTERNET RULES. WE SAID THERE ARE SOME BRIGHT LINE RULES. YOU HAVE TO PROVIDE INFORMATION TO THE CONSUMER AND WE WILL PUT A REFEREE ON THE FIELD TO LOOK AT WHAT YOUR CONTINUED ACTIONS ARE AS TECHNOLOGY EVOLVES AND SO THE FLAG IF NECESSARY -- THROW THE FLAG IF NECESSARY. THE TRUMP FCC IS TURNING ITS BACK AND WALKING AWAY AND GIVING THE NETWORK COMPANIES EVERYTHING THAT THEY HAVE ASKED FOR. EMILY: THIS IS UNFOLDING AGAINST VERY INTERESTING POLITICAL BACKDROP. WE JUST MENTIONED EARLIER WHAT IS GOING ON WITH AT&T' PROPOSED MERGER WITH TIME WARNERS. THE DOJ NOW SUING AT&T. HOW MUCH OF THIS IS POLITICALLY MOTIVATED? TOM: I CANNOT ANSWER THAT QUESTION. I DO FIND IT SHOCKING THAT THE TRUMP S.E.C. -- THE TRUMP FCC FROM DAY ONE HAS GONE RIGHT DOWN THE LINE WHAT THE BIG COMPANIES WANT WHEN THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO BE REPRESENTING CONSUMERS, NOT THE COMPANIES. THE FCC CONTINUALLY TURNS THEIR BACK ON THEIR CONGRESSIONAL MANDATE TO PROTECT CONSUMERS. EMILY: LOOK BY ALL ACCOUNTS,, IT APPEARS THIS WILL HAPPEN IN DECEMBER. FOR YOU, WHAT IS IT LIKE TO WATCH YOUR WORK BE UNDONE? TOM: I HAVE HAD BETTER THINGS GIVING'S THAT'S -- THANKSGIV INGS. THE ANSWER IS THIS IS A LONG PROCESS. IT APPEARS THEY HAVE THE VOTES TO OVERTURN IT IN DECEMBER. THEN IT WILL BE UP TO THE COURT. THE DECISION WE MADE TWICE WENT THROUGH THE COURT AND WAS TWICE CONFIRMED BY THE COURT. AND I HOPE THAT THE COURT WILL LOOK AT THIS AND SAY, HEY, WAIT A MINUTE. THIS HAS BEEN IN EFFECT FOR 2.5 YEARS AND THERE HAVE NOT BEEN BAD THINGS THAT RESULTED. WHY ARE THEY TURNING AROUND AND GOING THE OTHER DIRECTION? EMILY: TOM WHEELER, FORMER FCC