EU-commission president Jean-Claude Juncker insists: migration isn’t the biggest problem the EU is facing. He warns the traditional parties ahead of the EU elections to simply copy the populists.

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WELT AM SONNTAG: Mr President, you once said that Europe was the love of your life. A great love can sometimes be a cause of despair, can it not?

Jean-Claude Juncker: I said that during the European election campaign in 2014. I travelled across all the EU countries and I fell in love anew with this continent. When flying from one country to another, on an almost hourly basis, you discover European landscapes and their endearing charms all over again. There is no other continent like ours, where over a distance of just 150 kilometres you can travel through three different landscapes. In Europe you encounter a broad range of people over a relatively short distance, and you hear a wide range of languages and dialects. I was particularly touched by the dialects. What richness!

WELT AM SONNTAG: But do you also occasionally despair of Europe?

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Juncker: There is no reason to despair of Europe. But of course one may have one's doubts. I have every confidence that the European Union has a future. You only need to visit a war cemetery to see what the alternative to European integration is. What does make me very angry, however, is the fact that the decision-making processes in the EU are sometimes too slow. And there is something else I find worrying: I used to have the feeling that the continent was continuously growing closer together. Over the past ten years, however, I have increasingly gained the impression that people in Europe are growing apart. We have to ensure that these rifts do not become too deep.

WELT AM SONNTAG: Your term of office is slowly coming to an end. Are you already in the mood of taking stock?

Juncker (laughs): It would be too early for that. But there is one thing I can say with absolute certainty: when I leave office on 1 November 2019, Europe will not break down.

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WELT AM SONNTAG: There are a number of battles still to be fought before then. In the dispute with Donald Trump over car tariffs you scored an unexpected victory and secured concessions from the US President, whereas many European leaders such as Chancellor Merkel and President Macron had previously failed miserably. How did you do that?

Juncker: I would simply say that the chemistry between us was right. And above all, I was able to convince him because I was speaking on behalf of 500 million Europeans, and because I had looked at the White House's figures beforehand. In this trade dispute, I realised that I would not win him over with European figures. I had learned from my experience at the G7 summit in Taormina, where the US President constantly called my figures into question. Of course our figures were correct, but I got through to him in the Oval Office because he thought I was still arguing on the basis of our statistics. At the decisive moment, I was able to say: 'These are your figures, Mister President.'

WELT AM SONNTAG: Do you trust Trump and his assurances?

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Juncker: I trust him for as long as he keeps his word. And if he no longer keeps it, then I will no longer feel bound by my word either.

WELT AM SONNTAG: The European elections will be taking place in May. Will the dispute about the right way to deal with migration overshadow the election campaign?

Juncker: That is something I would deeply regret. Migration is of course an important issue, but it is certainly not our biggest problem. It seems that when it comes to migration we have lost our ability to see things in perspective. King Abdullah II of Jordan was recently on a visit here. He shook his head and asked me if we were really serious. Refugees account for 25% of the Jordanian population. In absolute figures, fewer refugees have come to Europe, and yet there are those who see our continent on the verge of downfall because of them. That is quite simply an exaggeration. At the same time, however, we should recognise that the integration of refugees is a major challenge for many local authorities. I would caution against labelling as stupid those people who are concerned at the prospect of having to tackle these huge tasks.

WELT AM SONNTAG: But how is this balancing act – i.e. taking concerns seriously while at the same time not allowing the subject to be talked up out of all proportion – to be accomplished?

Juncker: Responsible politicians have to find the courage to address this divisive subject. And they need to have the patience to explain to people that taking in refugees is not an unsurmountable problem. If we achieved more orderly cooperation in Europe, the dimension of the challenges would be even smaller than at present. This can be seen in the case of the highly controversial Turkey deal, which has made a major contribution towards reducing the number of refugees coming to Europe. The agreement costs money, but it is money well invested.

WELT AM SONNTAG: But which head of a European government addresses the subject with that kind of clarity?

Juncker: I have been somewhat surprised by a number of recent events. For over two years, all EU heads of state or government have been calling for better protection of Europe's external borders. The European Commission has taken this call seriously and drawn up a proposal to strengthen the protection of our external borders by increasing the number of EU border guards to 10 000 by the end of 2020. But now, all of a sudden, reservations are being expressed on many sides about a perceived impact on national sovereignty. Everything is moving too fast, we are told, and the figures cited are said to be too high. This is blatant hypocrisy! First they ask the European Commission to do something, then we make a proposal, and now it is precisely those who have so far loudly criticised the insufficient protection of the EU's external border who do not want to make a commitment. Europe cannot operate like that. We have to act quickly to ensure that we are prepared and that the EU's external borders are really under control. The Member States concerned should put their reservations aside and swiftly adopt the proposal for protecting the EU's external border.

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WELT AM SONNTAG: What would be your advice to the election campaigners in Europe on keeping the populists in their place?

Juncker: I think it is a big mistake for a growing number of people in the traditional 'party families' to imitate the populists without due consideration. Those who run after the populists will only be seen from behind. We must not imply that the populists are right. We have to show them up for what they are by making it abundantly clear that they are just loud and do not have any specific proposals to offer on solving the challenges of our time.

WELT AM SONNTAG: Who do you have in mind?

Juncker: I am not seeking to name and shame anyone here.

WELT AM SONNTAG: You allow the Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban, who is in the same political group as yourself, to get away with his tirades against Europe, although Hungary clearly benefits from the EU. Why?

Juncker: I am constantly arguing with him. I tabled a motion for the exclusion of Viktor Orban's Fidesz Party from the European People's Party (EPP). In my opinion, the Christian Democratic values on which the EPP is based are no longer compatible with the politics of Fidesz. My motion was rejected.

WELT AM SONNTAG: The populists thrive by bad-mouthing Europe. What can you counter that with?

Juncker: The truth.

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WELT AM SONNTAG: What do you mean by that?

Juncker: We have notched up successes and we all need to talk about them more loudly. The last European Commission launched 100 legislative initiatives each year, whereas we have launched only 20 to 25 because I want to focus Europe on the essentials. We have withdrawn more than 130 proposals and slimmed down 160 laws. This year alone, three free trade agreements have been concluded. The European economy has been growing steadily for two years, 12 million new jobs have been created since I took up office, and budget deficits have decreased considerably. The Juncker Plan has generated investments worth 371 billion euro. This represents a joint effort by all Europeans in which the EU can take pride.

WELT AM SONNTAG: In southern Europe in particular, however, many people are demanding that the EU become more social. Would a European unemployment insurance scheme, for example, be a good idea?

Juncker: Even though I am very much in favour of a European unemployment insurance, this must not be a 'carte blanche' for countries that do not carry out reforms and find themselves in difficulties as a result. In our proposal for the medium-term financial planning, the Commission put forward two instruments: 25 billion euro for a reform support programme and 30 billion euro for a stabilisation function, a shock-absorption mechanism to cope with asymmetrical, external shocks – this can also include a re-insurance for national unemployment insurance schemes. This instrument could help to mitigate sudden economic crises in a particular country caused by external developments, and thus provide re-insurance at European level for national insurance systems. It is not right that a particular EU country has to reduce unemployment benefits because of rising jobless numbers in a crisis that is not of its making. It is important not to respond to crises with the wrong type of spending cuts, lowering investments, education spending and unemployment benefits.

Welt am Sonntag: Are you worried about a possible outside interference during the European election campaign – in the form of hacker attacks or targeted disinformation, such as we have seen in the US?

Juncker: I am indeed worried that there could be unlawful attempts to influence the European elections. We are not well enough prepared for that in Europe. At the European Commission we have recently stepped up our in-house staff capabilities in order to tackle misinformation more effectively. But of course that is not yet enough. All Member States must join forces. Europe must be united in combating the trolls and hacker groups from China or Russia.

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Welt am Sonntag: The European elections are no longer on the agenda for London. The United Kingdom is set to leave the EU on 29 March 2019. Will that happen?

Juncker: I am working on the assumption that it will leave, because that is what the people of the United Kingdom have decided.

Welt am Sonntag: Do you see any chance of a second referendum?

Juncker: That is for the British to decide.

Welt am Sonntag: What should the future relationship look like after the UK's withdrawal, particularly having regard to Northern Ireland?

Juncker: It is not us who are leaving the United Kingdom - it is the United Kingdom that is leaving the European Union. I find it entirely unreasonable for parts of the British public to believe that it is for the EU alone to propose a solution for all future British problems. My appeal is this: get your act together and then tell us what it is you want. Our proposed solutions have been on the table for months.

Welt am Sonntag: The Parliament in Westminster is due to vote on the withdrawal agreement on 15 January. Do you expect the agreement to be approved?

Juncker: If the House of Commons backs the withdrawal agreement in mid-January, then we should begin preparations for the future relationship between the United Kingdom and the European Union the very next day and not wait until after the official withdrawal date of 29 March. I have the impression that the majority of British MPs deeply distrust both the EU and Mrs May. It is being insinuated that our aim is to keep the United Kingdom in the EU by all possible means. That is not our intention. All we want is clarity about our future relations. And we respect the result of the referendum.

Welt am Sonntag: Romania will take over the presidency of the Council of the EU in January and will thus share responsibility for negotiating with London. Does that worry you?

Juncker: Romania is technically well-prepared for the six-month presidency of the Council of the EU starting in January - thanks also to the active support of the European Commission. I believe, however, that the government in Bucharest has not yet fully understood what it means to take chair over the EU Member States. For prudent negotiations, you also need a readiness to listen to others and the firm will to put your own wishes aside. I have some doubts there. What is more, Romania's internal situation is such that the country cannot act as a compact unit in Europe. There needs to be a united front at home to foster unity in Europe as well during the presidency.

Welt am Sonntag: Is this disunity a danger for Europe?

Juncker: I see a risk, but the whole thing does not necessarily have to end dangerously.

Welt am Sonntag: Who would you like to see as your successor?

Juncker: No comment.

Welt am Sonntag: We thought the answer would come like a pistol shot: Manfred Weber, the EPP Spitzenkandidat.

Juncker: I never shoot. And especially not too quickly.

Welt am Sonntag: What will you do after your term of office comes to an end in the autumn?

Juncker: I became a minister at the age of 27. Apart from a period of a few months, I have held a political office ever since. Much of my private life has taken a back seat, and I will dedicate more time to redressing the balance.