johnscoin



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MemberActivity: 101Merit: 10 [Poll] How can we rescue Bitcoin from the hand of BlockStream? May 06, 2017, 08:57:50 AM #1 It's known to all that, at least to some extent, Bitcoin is now under control of one company with the name "Blockstream". No proposals will be formal BIP without the approval of this company. And many people believe BS is deliberately changing Satoshi's vision to their own vision, without any consensus.



So, I wonder if you believe Bitcoin can overcome this challenge?



Are we Bitcoiners in the road to serfdom of BS inevitably?





Devs usually have the only say for most opensource softwares. But for Bitcoin, at least for Satoshi's vision, Devs only have a say, instead of only say. However, practically, devs' decisions are usually seen as the only thing we shall obey. And people who refuse to obey will be smeared.





So it's worrying once malicious devs take control of Bitcoin. Those devs could spread lies to attack dissenters, and most people will accept it without hesitation. Even we have the mechanism of hashrate voting, malicious devs can tell lies to attack miners.





Malicious devs can make people believe their only proposal is the only right choice by threatening the community with lies. And a large portion of people will follow them, whatever they do. Because people think they are following experts.





So, do you believe Bitcoin can be great enough? Can the community defeat BS?



If we can, how?





(I don't think the BS patents is important. Although BS's vision will make those patents quite valuable)



MachineZero



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Full MemberActivity: 219Merit: 100mcrypt.com domain 4sale 20BTC Re: [Poll] How can we rescue Bitcoin from the hand of BlockStream? May 06, 2017, 11:08:47 AM #2 What if without the powers that be: core, Bitmain, Blockstream, BU, other economic interests, and random walk, that Bitcoin was 10 cents and quarter filled blocks.



Would you crucify one or more from the list above?



Even with all these self interested parties we have hit the infinitesimally impossible in 8 years.

The only thing broken at the moment seems to be ever increasing size of mempool and fees per byte.

I don't think a single actor should be blamed for that situation.



Eventually self interest will force them to band together. "The enemy of my enemy is my friend". The new enemy being the potential decline of Bitcoin, and/or rise of one or more altcoins, or regulation.



Until this plays out, I would suggest a public service announcement not to transact less than two lattes value as it is currently a proven fact that we avg 2500 transactions per 10min block. It's better served at the moment to let larger transactions get confirmation until consensus can be reached.



When proven to have enough capacity to transact in lattes, that's when people should do so. Buy or rent mcrypt.com https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1766752.msg17643168#msg17643168

MachineZero



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Full MemberActivity: 219Merit: 100mcrypt.com domain 4sale 20BTC Re: [Poll] How can we rescue Bitcoin from the hand of BlockStream? May 06, 2017, 12:41:33 PM #6 Quote from: ViceOfBTC21 on May 06, 2017, 12:24:04 PM Quote from: ImHash on May 06, 2017, 11:41:56 AM Anyone having problem with the current Core devs should go and and start their own saints of development team with their own brand and coin.

Actually we pretty much are happy to stick with the devil that we know rather the devil that we don't know.

Luckily, there is growing Bitcoin Unlimited that will protect our money from Core noobs. If I read it correctly, then Bitcoin Core must die.

Luckily, there is growing Bitcoin Unlimited that will protect our money from Core noobs. If I read it correctly, then Bitcoin Core must die.

Let's get real. BU is heavily dependent on core. Look at their builds, massive amounts of code backported from core. Look at all the vulnerabilities in BU identified by core.



If core "died", the Blockchain will be attacked to the point of no return. It will be hard fork after hardfork trying to undo the acts of a malicious hacker. See Etherium hardfork after DAO as an example.



If you have capital or a business heavily invested in Bitcoin, you need core like air, water and shelter. If you are pissed about the scrap of bread, water and a cold dirty floor, find other accommodations. Rome wasn't built in a day.



Pitchforks won't work, only seats at a round table. Let's get real. BU is heavily dependent on core. Look at their builds, massive amounts of code backported from core. Look at all the vulnerabilities in BU identified by core.If core "died", the Blockchain will be attacked to the point of no return. It will be hard fork after hardfork trying to undo the acts of a malicious hacker. See Etherium hardfork after DAO as an example.If you have capital or a business heavily invested in Bitcoin, you need core like air, water and shelter. If you are pissed about the scrap of bread, water and a cold dirty floor, find other accommodations. Rome wasn't built in a day.Pitchforks won't work, only seats at a round table. Buy or rent mcrypt.com https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1766752.msg17643168#msg17643168

franky1



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LegendaryActivity: 2884Merit: 1751 Re: [Poll] How can we rescue Bitcoin from the hand of BlockStream? May 06, 2017, 05:00:53 PM

Last edit: May 06, 2017, 05:19:11 PM by franky1 #10 Quote from: Kprawn on May 06, 2017, 04:31:39 PM The code will talk for itself and all submissions are intensively scrutinized by Peer review... It is not as if any code is simply dismissed. If you can

add value and contribute good code, it will be considered and this is open to everyone.

IF you can get around the moderation of the technical discussion category of this forum (blockstream managed: gmax)

IF you can get around the moderation of the bitcoin mailing list (blockstream managed: rusty russel)

IF you can get around the moderation of the BIPS (blockstream managed: Luke JR)



then your proposed code might get seen.



Quote from: Kprawn on May 06, 2017, 04:31:39 PM I seriously doubt that anyone will get away with ignoring good code.



even good code can get ignored if its not following the blockstream roadmap. there are many idea's that even before it gets to a code level are thrown aside because its not going to help with the roadmap.



Quote from: Kprawn on May 06, 2017, 04:31:39 PM BlockStream have shown that they allowed several other submission and even some with bad code. {example : Bitcoin Unlimited}

blockstream "allowed" ...... psst here is a hint. no one should have control to ALLOW/disallow.. it should be open for anyone to just do, and then become useful or voluntarily ignored by just not using it.



if you want to have blockstream as the gatekeepers. then you have already lost bitcoins ethos.. maybe its time blockstream jump over and continue their contracted experiment on litecoin.. and then be more open and helpful as real independent devs to help the bitcoin community outside of their contract





when you see BITCOIN. as a diverse decentralised network thats going to last 120 years+

when you see BITCOIN. as a diverse decentralised network thats going to last beyond a dev teams own grandkids

when you see BITCOIN. as a diverse decentralised network thats going to last beyond a dev teams retirement

when you see BITCOIN. as a diverse decentralised network thats going to last beyond the curiosity of devs that may move onto different projects



you start to realise holding a certain amount of individuals as gods is a moment to facepalm yourself

you start to realise holding a certain amount of individuals as the trusted guys that should control it, is a moment to facepalm yourself



blockstream will move on at some point. and from what i can tell they want to use bitcoin as their experiment/sandbox test to show off to hyperledger what they can do to then jump to hyperledger.

so let litecoin be their sandbox and mess with that



nothing could should stop them being independent coders on a level playing field of the bitcoin community.. but they really do need to stop being the gate keepers, moderators and direction planners IF you can get around the moderation of the technical discussion category of this forum (blockstream managed: gmax)IF you can get around the moderation of the bitcoin mailing list (blockstream managed: rusty russel)IF you can get around the moderation of the BIPS (blockstream managed: Luke JR)then your proposed code might get seen.even good code can get ignored if its not following the blockstream roadmap. there are many idea's that even before it gets to a code level are thrown aside because its not going to help with the roadmap.blockstream "allowed" ...... psst here is a hint. no one should have control to ALLOW/disallow.. it should be open for anyone to just do, and then become useful or voluntarily ignored by just not using it.if you want to have blockstream as the gatekeepers. then you have already lost bitcoins ethos.. maybe its time blockstream jump over and continue their contracted experiment on litecoin.. and then be more open and helpful as real independent devs to help the bitcoin community outside of their contractwhen you see BITCOIN. as a diverse decentralised network thats going to last 120 years+when you see BITCOIN. as a diverse decentralised network thats going to last beyond a dev teams own grandkidswhen you see BITCOIN. as a diverse decentralised network thats going to last beyond a dev teams retirementwhen you see BITCOIN. as a diverse decentralised network thats going to last beyond the curiosity of devs that may move onto different projectsyou start to realise holding a certain amount of individuals as gods is a moment to facepalm yourselfyou start to realise holding a certain amount of individuals as the trusted guys that should control it, is a moment to facepalm yourselfblockstream will move on at some point. and from what i can tell they want to use bitcoin as their experiment/sandbox test to show off to hyperledger what they can do to then jump to hyperledger.so let litecoin be their sandbox and mess with thatnothing could should stop them being independent coders on a level playing field of the bitcoin community.. but they really do need to stop being the gate keepers, moderators and direction planners I DO NOT TRADE OR ACT AS ESCROW ON THIS FORUM EVER.

Please do your own research & respect what is written here as both opinion & information gleaned from experience. many people replying with insults but no on-topic content substance, automatically are 'facepalmed' and yawned at

Checlets



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Full MemberActivity: 220Merit: 103 Re: [Poll] How can we rescue Bitcoin from the hand of BlockStream? May 07, 2017, 06:52:28 AM #14 Quote from: jonald_fyookball on May 07, 2017, 03:46:51 AM blockstreams vision over satoshis? lol... biggest fuckery ever. enjoy your slow confirmations and high fees, fucktards.



I think that no matter what occurs with bitcoin, we as a community, as an ENTIRE COMMUNITY should be the ones deciding what it's future is. Not the group at the top, bottom, or left and right inverted. Not the person who started it or any of the above. I think that the Bitcoin networks users should all be heard and that those users should make they're choices based on cold hard and entire truths of the situation not just partial or entirely false information. I think that no matter what occurs with bitcoin, we as a community, as an ENTIRE COMMUNITY should be the ones deciding what it's future is. Not the group at the top, bottom, or left and right inverted. Not the person who started it or any of the above. I think that the Bitcoin networks users should all be heard and that those users should make they're choices based on cold hard and entire truths of the situation not just partial or entirely false information.

dropt



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LegendaryActivity: 1512Merit: 1000 Re: [Poll] How can we rescue Bitcoin from the hand of BlockStream? May 07, 2017, 04:35:22 PM #15 Quote from: ebliever on May 07, 2017, 01:37:29 AM Just make your own wonderful hardfork free of that horrible bitcoin development community...



What fucking bull shit this is. The current state of Bitcoin isn't what I signed up for. The most irritating part is that the direction of Bitcoin is being changed to suit particular parties when everyone else that wanted to do so had the decency to go start their own coin.



One of said particular parties is Blockstream and it is particularly discusting that they are involved in the development of the incumbent software package. It is a clear conflict of interest and none of them should be trusted at all. What fucking bull shit this is. The current state of Bitcoin isn't what I signed up for. The most irritating part is that the direction of Bitcoin is being changed to suit particular parties when everyone else that wanted to do so had the decency to go start their own coin.One of said particular parties is Blockstream and it is particularly discusting that they are involved in the development of the incumbent software package. It is a clear conflict of interest and none of them should be trusted