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TheDwf Profile Joined November 2011 France 19747 Posts Last Edited: 2013-02-06 02:23:30 #2 2nd post

ToastieNL Profile Blog Joined July 2010 Netherlands 845 Posts #3 After Hive tech? like, with UltraDen AND Greater Sppire completed, wwith 3/3 ups everywhere? Or when the map starts geting mined out? Zerg lategame is imbalanced as shit. Also: "Protoss is really strong recently. Perhaps, it's time for there to be some changes for Terran." -MMA. Even MMA asks for buffs. Srsly Blizzard. Srsly.

KimJongChill Profile Joined January 2011 United States 6426 Posts #4 On August 06 2011 04:35 Peterblue wrote:

What is the best composition possible for late game TvZ? Should I even bother including bio in my late game army?

It's dependent on Zerg composition of course, but marines are never a bad choice. Have some tech lab rax and reactor ports ready for ultra/brood. It's dependent on Zerg composition of course, but marines are never a bad choice. Have some tech lab rax and reactor ports ready for ultra/brood. MMA: U realise MMA: Most of my army EgIdra: fuck off MMA: Killed my orbital MMA: LOL MMA: just saying MMA: u werent loss

Numy Profile Blog Joined June 2010 South Africa 14148 Posts Last Edited: 2011-08-05 19:46:31 #5 On August 06 2011 04:35 Peterblue wrote:

What is the best composition possible for late game TvZ? Should I even bother including bio in my late game army?



Absolutely. Bio is one of the core components of conventional TvZ. That being said there are other styles out there that can lead to different results, I'm not too familiar with them so I'll just speak about standard marine tank type game.



TvZ isn't really like other matchups. I feel like it doesn't really have any defined "late game" such as TvP/ZvP has. It's generally a war of attrition that your goal is to keep it in a medium sized eco game. So you trading constantly thus never really have time to get some kind of "late game" army. Ghosts/thors/vikings are the only real new components that you can add in but those are generally added before this hypothetical "late game" would occur. Marauders are a good addition if he's going ultras however.



Just to go a bit deeper. Even when the map is being mined out it should still be a "mid-low eco" type situation. Where the whole game you have been trading armies effectively so there's never really time for zerg to reach his ideal composition.



If that doesn't make sense just shout, I'll try explain it better Absolutely. Bio is one of the core components of conventional TvZ. That being said there are other styles out there that can lead to different results, I'm not too familiar with them so I'll just speak about standard marine tank type game.TvZ isn't really like other matchups. I feel like it doesn't really have any defined "late game" such as TvP/ZvP has. It's generally a war of attrition that your goal is to keep it in a medium sized eco game. So you trading constantly thus never really have time to get some kind of "late game" army. Ghosts/thors/vikings are the only real new components that you can add in but those are generally added before this hypothetical "late game" would occur. Marauders are a good addition if he's going ultras however.Just to go a bit deeper. Even when the map is being mined out it should still be a "mid-low eco" type situation. Where the whole game you have been trading armies effectively so there's never really time for zerg to reach his ideal composition.If that doesn't make sense just shout, I'll try explain it better

ticktack Profile Blog Joined January 2011 United Arab Emirates 872 Posts #6 How do I deal with zergs who go Destiny-style infestor play? When they get the first few infestors out, I feel as if I can't push out and be aggressive anymore because he has too many lings and fungals to crush my push. The zerg will then proceed to make a ton more infestors and take the whole map. Then I lose.



Should I just turtle up and drop everywhere until I get 200/200 and 3/3 upgraded units? good zergs put spines on their expansions so sometimes this doesn't seem a good idea. A winner is just a loser who got pissed off and tried harder

bunnymuncher Profile Joined July 2011 Canada 110 Posts #7 On August 06 2011 04:54 ticktack wrote:

How do I deal with zergs who go Destiny-style infestor play? When they get the first few infestors out, I feel as if I can't push out and be aggressive anymore because he has too many lings and fungals to crush my push. The zerg will then proceed to make a ton more infestors and take the whole map. Then I lose.



Should I just turtle up and drop everywhere until I get 200/200 and 3/3 upgraded units? good zergs put spines on their expansions so sometimes this doesn't seem a good idea.



Zergs are very squishy while they are transitioning into infestors. If you scout a finished lair and an infestation pit going down then i would push out. Splitting up your marines works well against a low infestor count. One tip is to poke in/out with your marines IF YOU HAVE MEDIVACS. Let the infestors waste their energy. I aim to have a few seige tanks, decent amount of marines, and a few medivacs for this push. I've always loved fast medicavs. Zergs are very squishy while they are transitioning into infestors. If you scout a finished lair and an infestation pit going down then i would push out. Splitting up your marines works well against a low infestor count. One tip is to poke in/out with your marines IF YOU HAVE MEDIVACS. Let the infestors waste their energy. I aim to have a few seige tanks, decent amount of marines, and a few medivacs for this push. I've always loved fast medicavs.

Ge0Rob Profile Joined March 2011 England 61 Posts #8 How to deal with a very heavy bling infestor upgrade style in TvZ? I feel as if the only way to get into the game without every push getting squashed is by dropping, however once drops are prevented by like 2spines and a spore at each base, it feels like the Z can just mass expand and I have to turtle on 2/3 base. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. It's just that yours is stupid..

Vestrel Profile Blog Joined December 2010 Canada 271 Posts #9 What do I do if Zerg goes fast Zergling Speed - FE and I go 12/14 rax? There's no Hatch building at his natural when I get there so should I put up bunkers anyway or build up a bigger Marine count before moving out to pressure him?

Numy Profile Blog Joined June 2010 South Africa 14148 Posts Last Edited: 2011-08-05 20:45:19 #10 On August 06 2011 05:31 Vestrel wrote:

What do I do if Zerg goes fast Zergling Speed - FE and I go 12/14 rax? There's no Hatch building at his natural when I get there so should I put up bunkers anyway or build up a bigger Marine count before moving out to pressure him?



Answered your own question :D. Just wait for a greater marine count and poke the around. Don't over-commit though. Without 2 hatches his production is quite low so he can't really afford to commit to both lings and drones. Answered your own question :D. Just wait for a greater marine count and poke the around. Don't over-commit though. Without 2 hatches his production is quite low so he can't really afford to commit to both lings and drones.

ToastieNL Profile Blog Joined July 2010 Netherlands 845 Posts #11 I'm actually wondering about this build. How to?



TvP

2 rax pressure -> Drops -> Expo

Zerg lategame is imbalanced as shit. Also: "Protoss is really strong recently. Perhaps, it's time for there to be some changes for Terran." -MMA. Even MMA asks for buffs. Srsly Blizzard. Srsly.

WarSame Profile Blog Joined February 2010 Canada 1838 Posts Last Edited: 2011-08-05 22:06:34 #12 On August 06 2011 06:32 ToastieNL wrote:

I'm actually wondering about this build. How to?



TvP

2 rax pressure -> Drops -> Expo



You probably would want to expand before starting your drops(a good example would be Thorzain's build vs Idra



I'd probably go something like 2 rax, gas, fact, gas, tech lab on rax, starport, reactor on factory, stim, switch reactor to port, move out. I'd really advise against this though because it slows your economy a ton,s o you have to do damage, but the medivac tech slows it down enough that he can probably get enough dling/queens to stop you.



EDIT: TvP not TvZ. Same idea applies though. You probably would want to expand before starting your drops(a good example would be Thorzain's build vs Idra here ), but I think you can work out a general build order for your build otherwise.I'd probably go something like 2 rax, gas, fact, gas, tech lab on rax, starport, reactor on factory, stim, switch reactor to port, move out. I'd really advise against this though because it slows your economy a ton,s o you have to do damage, but the medivac tech slows it down enough that he can probably get enough dling/queens to stop you.EDIT: TvP not TvZ. Same idea applies though. Can it be I stayed away too long? Did you miss these rhymes while I was gone?

rogzardo Profile Blog Joined February 2011 610 Posts #13 On August 06 2011 06:32 ToastieNL wrote:

I'm actually wondering about this build. How to?



TvP

2 rax pressure -> Drops -> Expo





2 rax --> drops means you have a super late xpo. Borderline Allinish IMO.



Drops are a big part of my TvP, and I either open 1/1/1 for a quick marine/hellion drop, or 1 rax gasless FE, into 3 rax and then drops.



2 rax pressure is nice, but you're going to have to forgo the xpo or the tech for quite a while. ...or just pray you don't get rolled if you try to do both at the same time. 2 rax --> drops means you have a super late xpo. Borderline Allinish IMO.Drops are a big part of my TvP, and I either open 1/1/1 for a quick marine/hellion drop, or 1 rax gasless FE, into 3 rax and then drops.2 rax pressure is nice, but you're going to have to forgo the xpo or the tech for quite a while. ...or just pray you don't get rolled if you try to do both at the same time.

ToastieNL Profile Blog Joined July 2010 Netherlands 845 Posts #14 On August 06 2011 06:37 rogzardo wrote:

Show nested quote +

On August 06 2011 06:32 ToastieNL wrote:

I'm actually wondering about this build. How to?



TvP

2 rax pressure -> Drops -> Expo





2 rax --> drops means you have a super late xpo. Borderline Allinish IMO.



Drops are a big part of my TvP, and I either open 1/1/1 for a quick marine/hellion drop, or 1 rax gasless FE, into 3 rax and then drops.



2 rax pressure is nice, but you're going to have to forgo the xpo or the tech for quite a while. ...or just pray you don't get rolled if you try to do both at the same time. 2 rax --> drops means you have a super late xpo. Borderline Allinish IMO.Drops are a big part of my TvP, and I either open 1/1/1 for a quick marine/hellion drop, or 1 rax gasless FE, into 3 rax and then drops.2 rax pressure is nice, but you're going to have to forgo the xpo or the tech for quite a while. ...or just pray you don't get rolled if you try to do both at the same time.

Guess I'd go for 1 rax FE into 3 rax + drops than ! Thank you. Guess I'd go for 1 rax FE into 3 rax + drops than! Thank you. Zerg lategame is imbalanced as shit. Also: "Protoss is really strong recently. Perhaps, it's time for there to be some changes for Terran." -MMA. Even MMA asks for buffs. Srsly Blizzard. Srsly.

Numy Profile Blog Joined June 2010 South Africa 14148 Posts #15 On August 06 2011 06:41 ToastieNL wrote:

Show nested quote +

On August 06 2011 06:37 rogzardo wrote:

On August 06 2011 06:32 ToastieNL wrote:

I'm actually wondering about this build. How to?



TvP

2 rax pressure -> Drops -> Expo





2 rax --> drops means you have a super late xpo. Borderline Allinish IMO.



Drops are a big part of my TvP, and I either open 1/1/1 for a quick marine/hellion drop, or 1 rax gasless FE, into 3 rax and then drops.



2 rax pressure is nice, but you're going to have to forgo the xpo or the tech for quite a while. ...or just pray you don't get rolled if you try to do both at the same time. 2 rax --> drops means you have a super late xpo. Borderline Allinish IMO.Drops are a big part of my TvP, and I either open 1/1/1 for a quick marine/hellion drop, or 1 rax gasless FE, into 3 rax and then drops.2 rax pressure is nice, but you're going to have to forgo the xpo or the tech for quite a while. ...or just pray you don't get rolled if you try to do both at the same time.

Guess I'd go for 1 rax FE into 3 rax + drops than ! Thank you. Guess I'd go for 1 rax FE into 3 rax + drops than! Thank you.



You can go 2 rax into expand then add on drops. Nothing wrong with it. Usual opening is 12 rax then 16 rax (before depo) while getting reactor on other rax. Then add on tech lab and push out with a few marines + 1 marauder and conc shell. If he's not going 1 gate fe you just fall back and put down expo. It's a nice build on certain maps and safe. The main issue with what you said was drops before expo and not many builds do that without being quite all inish You can go 2 rax into expand then add on drops. Nothing wrong with it. Usual opening is 12 rax then 16 rax (before depo) while getting reactor on other rax. Then add on tech lab and push out with a few marines + 1 marauder and conc shell. If he's not going 1 gate fe you just fall back and put down expo. It's a nice build on certain maps and safe. The main issue with what you said was drops before expo and not many builds do that without being quite all inish

rogzardo Profile Blog Joined February 2011 610 Posts #16 On August 06 2011 06:51 Numy wrote:

Show nested quote +

On August 06 2011 06:41 ToastieNL wrote:

On August 06 2011 06:37 rogzardo wrote:

On August 06 2011 06:32 ToastieNL wrote:

I'm actually wondering about this build. How to?



TvP

2 rax pressure -> Drops -> Expo





2 rax --> drops means you have a super late xpo. Borderline Allinish IMO.



Drops are a big part of my TvP, and I either open 1/1/1 for a quick marine/hellion drop, or 1 rax gasless FE, into 3 rax and then drops.



2 rax pressure is nice, but you're going to have to forgo the xpo or the tech for quite a while. ...or just pray you don't get rolled if you try to do both at the same time. 2 rax --> drops means you have a super late xpo. Borderline Allinish IMO.Drops are a big part of my TvP, and I either open 1/1/1 for a quick marine/hellion drop, or 1 rax gasless FE, into 3 rax and then drops.2 rax pressure is nice, but you're going to have to forgo the xpo or the tech for quite a while. ...or just pray you don't get rolled if you try to do both at the same time.

Guess I'd go for 1 rax FE into 3 rax + drops than ! Thank you. Guess I'd go for 1 rax FE into 3 rax + drops than! Thank you.



You can go 2 rax into expand then add on drops. Nothing wrong with it. Usual opening is 12 rax then 16 rax (before depo) while getting reactor on other rax. Then add on tech lab and push out with a few marines + 1 marauder and conc shell. If he's not going 1 gate fe you just fall back and put down expo. It's a nice build on certain maps and safe. The main issue with what you said was drops before expo and not many builds do that without being quite all inish You can go 2 rax into expand then add on drops. Nothing wrong with it. Usual opening is 12 rax then 16 rax (before depo) while getting reactor on other rax. Then add on tech lab and push out with a few marines + 1 marauder and conc shell. If he's not going 1 gate fe you just fall back and put down expo. It's a nice build on certain maps and safe. The main issue with what you said was drops before expo and not many builds do that without being quite all inish





Agreed. When I 2 rax ---> expo I usually tech straight to drops off the 2 rax, which is pretty risky. Auto-lose to 6 gate and similar builds. Guess I should just throw down 1 more rax before the factory... Agreed. When I 2 rax ---> expo I usually tech straight to drops off the 2 rax, which is pretty risky. Auto-lose to 6 gate and similar builds. Guess I should just throw down 1 more rax before the factory...

SurroundSound Profile Blog Joined April 2010 106 Posts Last Edited: 2011-08-05 22:17:12 #17 Recently in TvT, ive been favoring playing a safe turtle game to get 2 bases where i make my push but it was absolutely crushed by a thor/hellion/tank combination where i was sieged and he wasnt and he charged into my line and demolished it?



1. Is that a better combination to go for out of safe turtle game that i like to play?

2. When is the best time to attack with my tanks unsieged...in other words how should i charge a siege line with my tanks unsieged?



edit: I also like to get vikings out for denying drops and banshees. Can this be included if question 1 is a yes? Its not John Hancock...Its Herby Hancock

Numy Profile Blog Joined June 2010 South Africa 14148 Posts Last Edited: 2011-08-05 22:25:22 #18 On August 06 2011 07:11 SurroundSound wrote:

Recently in TvT, ive been favoring playing a safe turtle game to get 2 bases where i make my push but it was absolutely crushed by a thor/hellion/tank combination where i was sieged and he wasnt and he charged into my line and demolished it?



1. Is that a better combination to go for out of safe turtle game that i like to play?

2. When is the best time to attack with my tanks unsieged...in other words how should i charge a siege line with my tanks unsieged?



TvT isn't really something that can be discussed without specifics(Replays etc.). Generally if you going for a more passive playstyle while just creeping to expansions you want to stick around siege tanks with air control while using hellions as min sinks. I don't really get the "2 base turtle". That's not really turtling tbh. If you staying on 2 bases for long you basically gearing up for a timing attack so it isn't really a "safe turtle game".



For a timing what I said changes. I don't have much experience with mech timing attacks in TvT. I don't see it often either. I assume you going to want enough tanks for defence then go into thor mode and push when you have enough thors to break his line and finish the game. Likely when he tries to take a third since there will be a small window where he's stretched out and doesn't have enough to completely seal off such a thing



EDIT: If you are going mech vikings are very important. You need to get air control or at least deny his air control. Overall I don't really think you can do a 2 base timing in TvT and what your question relates to seems to be exactly that, maybe post some replays of play in question. TvT isn't really something that can be discussed without specifics(Replays etc.). Generally if you going for a more passive playstyle while just creeping to expansions you want to stick around siege tanks with air control while using hellions as min sinks. I don't really get the "2 base turtle". That's not really turtling tbh. If you staying on 2 bases for long you basically gearing up for a timing attack so it isn't really a "safe turtle game".For a timing what I said changes. I don't have much experience with mech timing attacks in TvT. I don't see it often either. I assume you going to want enough tanks for defence then go into thor mode and push when you have enough thors to break his line and finish the game. Likely when he tries to take a third since there will be a small window where he's stretched out and doesn't have enough to completely seal off such a thingEDIT: If you are going mech vikings are very important. You need to get air control or at least deny his air control. Overall I don't really think you can do a 2 base timing in TvT and what your question relates to seems to be exactly that, maybe post some replays of play in question.

ilion Profile Blog Joined December 2010 United States 65 Posts #19 TvP 1 rax gasless FE questions:



How many bunkers at my natural is too much? 4? This is obviously when I've scouted a 3gate robo or 4gate.



Also, how do you deal with blink stalker? As in a rush to blink. I've never actually faced this so I don't know when the timing for a blink rush to finish is, but I still forsee it as being a weakness of a gasless FE.

Kritzkrieg Profile Joined October 2010 United States 57 Posts #20 Vs. Protoss, I prefer to sky terran and open with cloak banshees, then banshee/Thor/rine for one observer snipe army trades. I have the whole mid to late game down, but I have a bunch of openings that all don't feel optimal.

I can siege expand, causeing my harass to be late and, if not afterward against, moves a massive waste of gas on the siege tech and 3 or so tanks.



I can rush banshee and potentially get epic harass and can also get my door knocked down by even a sup par 3gate push, and trade future gas needed for thirst, banshees, stim, ravens, ship armor and potentially BCs.



I can 1rax FE and simply ignore harass and tanks in favor of a 2 base unit comp death push, but will be behind economically without a solid plan to get my third.



So how would you open if this was UR unit comp goal? Tyvm. "Check 4 check 5 check 6 check 7 check money check map" -Day9, aka the voice in my head.

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