Dec-20-07 Chesschatology : This is basically the refutation of the Englund Gambit- I've won about a dozen games with this line on FICS. Dec-20-07

ganstaman : Really a refutation? Because it seem that 8...Qd7 is a blunder to me. Why not 8...f6 instead? Or even earlier, 7...Ne7 wouldn't be too bad, would it? Dec-20-07 Chesschatology : 7. Ne7 Qe5 wins(threats Nf6++ and Nxc7++).

8....f6 avoids immediate material loss but Black's position is horrible! Dec-20-07

ganstaman : <Chesschatology: 7. Ne7 Qe5 wins(threats Nf6++ and Nxc7++).> Neither knight check is mate. After 7. Qd4 Ne7 8. Qe5 <d6> , black is doing ok. 9. Nc7+ now loses the knight, and 9. Nf6+ loses the knight as it always did. So after white moves his queen away, black can develop another piece (probably LSB) or kick out the knight with ...c6. White does have some initiative, but I don't think it's winning or even more than many other openings. I'll agree that 8...f6 isn't pretty, but 7...Ne7 avoids having to make such a move anyway. Dec-21-07 Chesschatology : <ganstaman> you're right that 8. Qe5 doesn't work. I think after 7... Ne7 simply Bg5 is irritating, and White enjoys big advantage. If ... f6 Black ends up in a similar position to the 8... f6 line. Otherwise Nxe7 is threatened. It's not mating or winning material by force, but it is highly unpleasant for Black. Feb-20-10

FSR : According to Stefan Bücker, Black gets a playable game with 8...f6 9.Bd2 c6 10.Nf4 Qb6 - http://www.chesscafe.com/text/kaiss... Jan-06-11 Chesschatology : Chesschatology: "FSR: According to Stefan Bücker, Black gets a playable game with 8...f6 9.Bd2 c6 10.Nf4 Qb6 " Why is White putting his Bishop on d2, and his Knight on f4? What about simply 8. ...f6 9. Bf4 planning 10 0-0-0? White has a collosal lead in development. Black's position is ugly as sin. How does Black unravel? If he kicks the Knight away with c6, d6 becomes weak, and I doubt that Black can get ...d5 in and remain alive with a pin on the d file and e2-e4 in the offing. It's simply a dream position for White. Jan-02-15

FSR : Houdini 3 analyzes 8. Bg5 f6 9. Bf4 c6 10. Nc3 Qb6 11. O-O-O Qxd4 12. Rxd4 d5 13. e4 g5 14. Be3 Bc5 15. Rd2 Bxe3 16. fxe3 dxe4 17. Nxe4 Ke7 18. f4 h6 19. Rg1 f5 20. Ng3 Be6 21. Bd3 Rf8 22. b3 Ke8 23. Rgd1 Ne7 and Black hangs on (+.54). Jan-02-15

perfidious : Black was not king on this day. Jan-02-15

FSR : <perfidious> Not surprising, since the anagram of <Koning> is <no King> . Oct-19-18

imsighked2 : I am in the process of destroying someone with this line in a daily game. We’re only 11 moves in, and I’m up a rook and a pawn.