Peter McCormack: Hotep! Hey man, thank you for coming on. How are you doing?

Hotep Jesus: Doing good man, thank you for having me.

Peter McCormack: Not a problem. You're causing me a lot of shit this week man!

Hotep Jesus: I have, have I? What's going on?

Peter McCormack: I'm losing Bitcoin followers. I was out with some Bitcoin friends last night and they're like, "why the fuck you talking to Hotep, why are you having him on your show?" And I was like, "because I think we can learn stuff from him!"

Hotep Jesus: So why would you lose followers?

Peter McCormack: So what it is, is that Bitcoin is King and everything else is either a scam or a stupid project. None of the other stuff makes sense and these people have constantly been fighting and defending Bitcoin and trying to keep people away from scams.

Hotep Jesus: That's mistake number one.

Peter McCormack: Okay, we'll come to that. So when someone new comes in and you start a debate of BSV v BTC, in their minds, there's no debate, it's over, it's solved and their view is that perhaps you're giving attention to BSV and it pisses them off. I have a different view, but that's why I'm getting a bit of shit.

They're like, "just ignore him, fucking leave him alone." But look, before we get into that, I think I want to get in a couple of things first. I want to know a bit more about you, because I think that's a good set up and then I want to cover a few things there and then we're going to go into the Bitcoin thing.

Hotep Jesus: Let's do it!

Peter McCormack: All right, so firstly, is Hotep Jesus a character or is it you?

Hotep Jesus: Oh that's a tough question. I'm a Libra and Libra is an air sign, so we move like the wind. So sometimes I'm Bryan Sharpe and sometimes I'm Hotep Jesus and sometimes I'm Daddy Boston, because I used to be a rapper under the name Daddy Boston.

A lot of people would say, "oh you have multiple personalities" and I'll say, "no, I'm dynamic", or I would say "I'm fluid, I can adapt." I'm more like a chameleon, where I adapt to my environment. I adapt to wherever I am or any situation. Sometimes Hotep Jesus fits, it's not a name I gave myself, it was a name that haters gave me. Haters gave me all my ammo and if haters throw you rocks, build a house.

Peter McCormack: So you owned it?

Hotep Jesus: Yeah I owned it, I thought it was a cool name. Who wouldn't want to be called Jesus?

Peter McCormack: But why is it Hotep Jesus, what's the meaning of it?

Hotep Jesus: Well Hotep is our crew, Hotep Nation. Before that I was a Hotep Hannibal, when somebody called me a... The way I was tweeting at that time, it was very spiritual. So they were like, "who do you think you are, some type of Hotep Jesus?" And I was like, "you know what, that sounds better than a Hotep Hannibal!" So I grabbed that and made that my moniker. but I very much follow the mood, I follow a vibe.

I don't follow a set pattern on how to be. I follow my intuition, if it say do this, I do that. If it say don't do this, I don't do it, you know? So sometimes people might say, "hey, you're being one way or another." But usually my takes on things are very consistent. I'm an objective person too, so sometimes people don't like that either, because they want you to pick a side. But I'm very objective, where I can see two sides of a coin.

Peter McCormack: Okay, I get it, that's fine. Because the reason I ask whether it's a character is, have you seen the Diego Maradona film?

Hotep Jesus: I have not.

Peter McCormack: Do you know who he is?

Hotep Jesus: The footballer from Argentina?

Peter McCormack: Yeah, so he essentially had two personalities. Diego was the nice guy from Argentina, grew up, I'm not sure of the area, but like just a nice person, loved playing football, quiet family guy. Maradona was the guy in public doing the cocaine and going crazy and people said there was two sides to him. A bit like Eminem is sometimes Slim Shady, people have like certain sides to their character. I didn't know if Hotep was like a character and like on Twitter, are you in Hotep mode and when you're home, are you just like dad?

Hotep Jesus: No, I'm always Hotep mode. It annoys my girl and my kids sometimes because I'm always turned to the max for the most part. I'm either all the way turned up or like super mellow. I'm either in contemplation, like off into space in my head or when I'm hearing the world, it's like, "all right, I've taken everything that I thought of in that space and now I'm expressing it in the world." So I'm either one of those two places.

There's really no middle ground for me, I even have like insomnia sometimes. That's why you see me tweeting at three o'clock in the morning because I can't shut my brain off. So I have to actually meditate to put myself to sleep, but it's just a million thoughts running through my head and I read a lot and I consume information all day, every day. So a lot of that contributes to my development and I evolve really fast. I'm growing and I call myself a perpetual student.

Peter McCormack: How old are you?

Hotep Jesus: I turn 40 next year.

Peter McCormack: I'm 40 now! Big number!

Hotep Jesus: So it's a combination of experience, that makes you a new person and every day I just try to be a little bit better than I was a day before. So if you look at me six months ago, you might say, "yo, that's not who you were" and I'm like, "I know, I shouldn't be the same person I was six months ago. I should be growing. I should be getting better!"

Peter McCormack: Right, so I guess you're on a journey of discovery, figuring stuff out, life, how to treat people, how to treat yourself, all that stuff, how to be a good dad, what you get right, what you get wrong, okay, I get that. So when did this all kind of start, because obviously you had a previous career as a rapper, but now you're online, you're doing podcasts and interviews. When did this whole kind of new thing start?

Hotep Jesus: I want to say maybe 2007, 2008. My parents left Jersey, they moved out of town and I was on my own. So I was sleeping on my homeboy's couch and things weren't looking up for me at that time. First time I was out on my own, I've been with my parents my whole life. So I started reading like self-help books and then it kind of like took me down a journey of self-discovery.

With all this reading development, you start developing a certain mentality I guess you can say, but the physical world around you does not yet reflect the mentality that you're trying to manifest, because it takes time. So you're telling everybody around you like, "yo, this is what it is, this is the plan, I'm going to be great, I'm going to be this big guy and you're going to see", meanwhile they're watching you get fired from Olive Garden!

So nobody really believes you. Then I have my blog and my blog was doing really well, but I refuse to monetize my blog. I used it for advertising for myself, because I didn't really look at USD as being something to chase, I look at equity in a brand to be something to chase. So I chased this equity in this brand and eventually I got my break with 50 Cent and I finessed that into a position at his company. So at that time, before that I was a touring artist, me and my homeboy Demic were touring artists and that was like super fun. 30,000 crowds and arenas, we performed at the Monster Truck Arena in Baltimore.

Peter McCormack: What kind of hip hop were you?

Hotep Jesus: More like positive, trendy beats, up-tempo.

Peter McCormack: What kind of era? What kind of acts would I know?

Hotep Jesus: We toured with LMFAO, Far East Movement we tour with, so it's sort of like that type of crowd. It wasn't the 50 Cent like gangster music, we didn't do that. It was more like party music. But then we had a couple of deep tracks too that talked about real life stuff. So I remember being on tour and we had a show in Miami. I went to Miami with $100 to my name for five days and I didn't know how I was going to survive, I didn't have a hotel room or anything, but when we performed, we ran into this guy that owned a casino.

He took care of me the whole trip. I got him some girls, I can talk! So I got him some girls, he was like, "yeah, you can crash in a big ass suite." So I crashed there, they left a day early, he bought me a hotel for that last night I was going to be there, so things ended up working out. But these are the things I was sacrificing, I didn't have any cash, but I was still doing these things. So then I finagle my way to the whole 50 Cent situation and I was like, "yo, I kind of want to be a professional, I don't want to rap anymore.

I want my kids to see me as a professional, not as a rapper" and plus being a rapper required being on tour, it required being on the road and I was tired of that. So in working with 50 Cent, that incubation company, I learned a lot and then to make a long story short, that was 2012, well here we are 2019, I've worked with over 20 startups between then and now and what I realized was, I was going into a lot of these places asking for a salary and then I got hit and I said, "now I want equity in these companies.

You can keep your cash, I'll figure out how to pay myself. I'll figure out some way to generate income, give me equity in these companies." So I started taking that mindset approach and then I started getting closer and closer with founders and eventually I started working next to founders and he just liked my style and liked the way I knew how to grow companies. Then that leads us to where we are now, Hotep Jesus the evolution! So starting off rapper, then like corporate professional, then startups and now I'm just like, "well let's take this to the next further, let's affect culture."

Peter McCormack: Okay, all right, we'll get to that. So would you say the hustle is ingrained in you?

Hotep Jesus: Yes and no. I don't like the hustle. I think if you have to hustle... I equate hustle to hard work and I think if you got to work hard, you're doing something wrong, it should come easy. Everything should come easy.

Peter McCormack: Well there's working hard and finding it hard work. I work hard, but I enjoy it. This isn't really work, right? The hours I put in, I do it because I love the job. So I work hard, but it's not hard work.

Hotep Jesus: Well what I say is, work consistently. I don't work hard, but I work around the clock. I don't stop working, but I don't work hard either. Whereas some people are like, "oh my God" and trying to cram in loads of stuff and I'm just like, "nah, just take little bites throughout the day." But I'm always working, I never really clock out. So work consistently but don't work hard. Regarding the hustle, like I said, I'm following my intuition, so I'm not even planning this stuff I do. A lot of people think I'm calculating on this stuff and I'm not! You can't calculate what I'm doing, it's not possible. You know what I mean?

Peter McCormack: What's the goal for you? Where are you headed?

Hotep Jesus: The big goal is to have a sanctuary. The problem is that a lot of people in society are affected by their environment, they're stuck in an environment and their environment is not conducive to growth. So I want to do is provide them a place where they can come for 90 days and think outside of media, think outside of social media, think outside of Western Civ and bring them to a place where there are none of those stimuli and the only stimuli is nature and literature and art. I want to do that and provide that place for people for free.

Let them come and you stay and just rework the mind. You know what I mean? Because there's a lot of people... Even the body too, so like a lot of people are stuck on synthetic foods, you come to my sanctuary, we're going to be eating natural foods, we'll be fully sustainable with farming and so on and so forth. Very similar to Kanye, but with Kanye, I think he's going more the art route. I'm going more of a subconscious reprogramming route, so I want to embed people with new messages and new ways of thinking.

Peter McCormack: Okay and how much of that for you is kind of broadly for everyone and how much of that is for you, say supporting the black community, because obviously you talk about that as well? Is this a black thing, or is this for everyone?

Hotep Jesus: It's definitely an everyone thing. When I thought of this, I thought of the black community.

Peter McCormack: I tell you why, because you just talked about food then. Yesterday, I was meant to interview Hawk Newsome, but unfortunately he had to cancel it, so we're going to reschedule. But as part of my research, he talks a lot about food oppression in the black community and that was something that had never crossed my mind.

Hotep Jesus: Oh yeah! Well that's how I came up with the idea. I was looking at my family and saying to myself, "how do I help them? What is wrong with them?" First it was like the diagnosis, like what is wrong here? Because I have at least a hundred family members in New Jersey and all 100 are under poverty. I have a really large family! If I put all my family in a room, we'd probably fill up maybe 2,000 or 3,000 people.

My great grandparents got busy! When you look at the tree, I think they started with 13 children, something like that and then one of their children had 18 children! So I have a really large family and I was looking at my family, seeing them at the family reunion, seeing them at Christmas and I'm just like, "what's wrong here?"

Peter McCormack: What's the pattern that you think is happening there?

Hotep Jesus: It's very mental, your environment doesn't give you positive stimuli. For example, if I said to somebody, "don't chase money, chase equity", but if you never heard of the word equity, how would you even know how to chase it? Really the way out of poverty is not through... Or I should say the path to billionaire status isn't through the USD, it's through equity in a company, especially a tech company.

So if they're not exposed to these things, if they wanted to invest and they never heard of Robinhood, you can't fault them for not coming up, out of the dirt, if there's not somebody there to introduce them to ideas.

Peter McCormack: So the whole environment's wrong from the start?

Hotep Jesus: Yeah, there's nothing! Even the teachers aren't hip, right? So you say, "oh well, we sent money to the school." The teacher doesn't know anything about Robinhood, she doesn't know anything about investing.

Peter McCormack: And they don't teach you about money at school.

Hotep Jesus: They don't teach money at school, exactly! So if I say to a kid, I say, "listen, I can make you a millionaire in 10 years guaranteed and you could work at Walmart." He going to look at me crazy, but it's true that if you take half of your income and you don't get married and you don't have kids and you take it and you just put it into S&P 500 companies and wait 10 years, you'll amass a great fortune and it could be up to a million dollars, there's a couple that did it.

They were making $70,000, whatever, whatever, but the fact of the matter remains is that in 10 years, if you got half a million in an investment account, you're better off than like 90% of Americans.

Peter McCormack: Also, the end number doesn't matter, it's the conditioning to be saving, to be investing rather than spending, because everybody pretty much lives hand to mouth with their checks and it doesn't matter what they are. I've got friends who don't earn a lot, so earn a lot, but they're all living the same. They're all just living at the end of their means and that becomes a problem.

Okay, so also in the personal development bit, because this is where it's really interesting because I've listened to you before, we've spoken before and I'm listening to you now, you're very calm, you're very relaxed, you're very composed, you're obviously a thinker, yet you get on Twitter and you start hammering people. So what's the MO there? What's different? What's going on there?

Hotep Jesus: So it's just thoughts. These thoughts enter my mind and I share them. The difference between me and everybody else is, the thoughts I'm willing to share, they're too scared to share.

Peter McCormack: Yeah, because we've become a little bit PC, a little liberal. So you would talk, for example, everybody wants a world of equality, which I believe we should have, but you believe men should be men?

Hotep Jesus: Correct, and I'm very much in that lane. I just dropped the "unbreakable rules of masculinity" book. So there's a lot of things that they say you shouldn't say about women and I'm like, "no, shut up and cook."

Peter McCormack: A lot of people aren't going to like that. Do you actually genuinely mean that?

Hotep Jesus: Oh hell yeah! First of all, you understand that the household I grew up in, my mother was an accountant, she made six figures. Every Sunday, my mother cooked. We had meals already prepped and cooked at least up until Wednesday.

Thursday came around, you kind of figured "maybe I'll get McDonald's that night", Friday we ordered pizza, Saturday we're out doing whatever, so we probably ordered out or went out to dinner once a week and then Sunday she's back cooking. So I came up in a household where like... If I brought you to my mum's house right now and we hung out, you wouldn't touch anything in the kitchen.

Peter McCormack: Let's go do it then!

Hotep Jesus: Yeah, absolutely come through!

Peter McCormack: But can't you also see maybe from some female's perspective, it's a bit shit for them to hear "shut up and cook."

Hotep Jesus: I don't care, that's their problem, it's not my problem. This is my opinion and I share it with you. You have two options, you can give it attention or you can ignore it.

Peter McCormack: No, that's true. I think sometimes though, I don't tell people exactly what I'm thinking because I just think what's the point in pissing them off and having the argument, sometimes I temper my thoughts. You just don't think to do that?

Hotep Jesus: Well the message is not for them. It's not for you. Like I said before, if I tweet something and you don't agree with it, the message wasn't for you or if you don't get it, if you don't get what I'm saying here, the message isn't for you. I've tweeted things before where people in the comments be like, "yeah I get it, I get it," and then one person be like, "yo, I don't get it" and I would just say, "yo, the message isn't for you."

Peter McCormack: So this is full on first amendment?

Hotep Jesus: Absolutely! But the thing is, I tweet for my followers, I don't tweet for Twitter. You know what I mean? I'm tweeting to my audience, like I know who my audience is, I know my demographic, I know what they want, I know what they like and I specifically created my following to mirror me. So I'll say offensive things to get rid of people that don't like this train of thought.

Peter McCormack: Fine, okay. So you've got kids, I've got kids. I've got a son and a daughter, you've got twins?

Hotep Jesus: Twin boys and a daughter.

Peter McCormack: So if your daughter had a boyfriend and he just sat on his ass, saying "shut up and cook" all the time, how would you feel about that?

Hotep Jesus: I don't know, it depends. I think it depends on if he is upholding his end as a man.

Peter McCormack: So imagine he's upholding his end, being a good provider, working hard and she's also working hard and whatever...

Hotep Jesus: Well if she's working hard, then it's already a fail.

Peter McCormack: Well, no, hear me out. So what I'm saying, is imagine this scenario, they are both doing their bit that they want to do, you say your daughter wants to work hard, she wants a career, you're not going to stop her wanting to do that because she's your daughter, but imagine someone hears that message and they take it the wrong way and use that as an excuse just to be consistently disrespectful, how would you feel about that?

Hotep Jesus: You're an idiot.

Peter McCormack: That person's an idiot?

Hotep Jesus: They're an idiot. If I say "shut up and cook" and you take that literally to oppress women, you're an idiot. My followers have discernment, they know that this is kind of being hyperbolic. I also came to my following to have a large IQ, they're pretty intelligent.

Peter McCormack: So there's a provocation to make a point?

Hotep Jesus: Correct, but I actually feel like that. I'll say it to my girl, "shut up and cook."

Peter McCormack: What would she said to you?

Hotep Jesus: She's going to laugh. We have that type of relationship where she knows I'm being hyperbolic.

Peter McCormack: Will she say, "shut up and put a shelf up."

Hotep Jesus: She might do that too and I'd be like, "okay!" I think it goes both ways.

Peter McCormack: And you find it important to have this very definite separation of men and women and roles in society

Hotep Jesus: Yeah!

Peter McCormack: Okay, how do you feel about the people who want to step outside of that? So for example, we've got a plethora of genders now that we're having to cope with and deal with and understand. How do you feel about all of that?

Hotep Jesus: I don't, it's none of my business. I'm not dating you, see what I mean? I can only accept what I'm going to accept and I'm only going to deal with people that fit within what I'm going to accept. If I demand a certain amount of respect and the people around me aren't giving me that respect, I have to remove myself from that environment and put myself where I am respected. So if I want somebody who's in gender roles and I meet a woman and she knocked down for gender roles, I'm going to make a u-turn.

Peter McCormack: Okay, interesting. So I tell you where I'm coming from, because then I want to start talking about Bitcoin, but it's helpful to understand. So I'm listening and I'm thinking, "right, I don't agree with your point. I wouldn't say that to someone, "shut up and cook."" But also at the same time, I spent a lot of time in America now and I'm understanding the whole First Amendment, how important it is and freedom of speech. So in my world I have to go, "okay, you're exercising your freedom of speech. I think perhaps sometimes you might be right, like in the UK we say, "you might be being a bit of a dick", because it's not something I would say. But yeah okay, I think I'm starting to get it.

Hotep Jesus: I mean it has some elements of being a dick. But I think that the problem is, people like to sugar coat how they feel about things. People like to sugarcoat their messages when they deliver the message to somebody. So they say, "oh, can you please cook for me? I would kind of like..." That's not how you sell! If we're talking about being a salesman and you selling an idea to somebody, you don't say, "ah, could you please buy this microphone? Or could you please buy this Bitcoin?" You say, "yo look, you've got to buy this Bitcoin or else! This is our future we dealing with here." So you have to take that approach with all aspects of life.

Peter McCormack: Is any of this satire?

Hotep Jesus: Yeah, I definitely am a comedian.

Peter McCormack: Because if it was a standup comedy act and it's built around a joke and it was like "shut up and cook", you'd totally get away with it and no-one would give a fuck.

Hotep Jesus: Well, that's what it is. I'm definitely a comedian, I tell jokes. If you take me serious, like I said, that's you being an idiot, if you taking what I'm saying serious, there's definitely an element of comedy.

Peter McCormack: So when you were saying the "shut up and code", it was making me laugh, but I knew it was going to piss people off, because people are going to go, "you're so disrespectful, these developers have built this stuff!" I was like, "I know he's not literally meaning to disrespect these people." It's just, yeah, it did make me laugh and I'm going to get hate for that, but it did.

Hotep Jesus: Well the "shut up and code" was a clap back. It wasn't that I came into the space and said, "hey everybody, this sucks, shut up and code!" It was two people that were "yelling at me" in my mentions on Twitter. I came into the space and I asked a few questions and they're like, "oh my God, who are you etc" and I was just like "shut up and code!" It was a response.

Peter McCormack: But it is quite interesting to see the reactions of somebody coming in who's new and the expectations people want of their behavior. Sometimes I think these people contradict themselves in terms of their expectations, but for me, I don't care.I'm always pissing off Bitcoiners because when somebody says, "why the fuck are you interviewing Hotep?" I want to do that more now! I want to do that more, because I'm like, "what can I learn?"

I was chatting to somebody else about it and they're like, "if Hotep could break Bitcoin, it's already fucked!" There's no damage that can be done to Bitcoin by having this conversation, but you can learn some things and I think one of the most important things we can learn... What I want to get from this, is how do new people coming in perceive the space, understand the coins and navigate this, because when you're close to something, like for example, I have no fucking understanding of the black community.

No understanding of what's... Because there's a different racial divide in the US, than there is in the UK. That's why I wanted to meet Hawk, I want to understand about Black Lives Matters, blah, blah, blah. I've got no understanding of it. So I want to go and ask him about it. For you, it's natural for you, it's natural for Hawk, you understand the issues of your community.

Same for Bitcoin, I understand Bitcoin, but you coming in, might not understand it. So I want to see and I want to understand what it's like for you. So the starting question is like, how far back does your crypto currency experience go?

Hotep Jesus: It's kind of embarrassing to say, but I saw it in like I think 2013 I want to say. I knew about it and I was just really pessimistic and I said, "the bank is going to kill this, it's not even going to happen. I'm going to touch it. The bankers aren't going to allow this to happen." Then 2017 was the bomb, right? So 2017 came around and I was just like, "let me buy something." So I bought... You got to remember I come from traditional investing, right?

So when you're up, you sell. So December came around, actually I think it was November around Thanksgiving and my friend came up to me and said, "oh, you know, they talking about Bitcoin and Bitcoin down the barbershop." And I'm like, "oh, it's time to sell", because once the masses gets something, it's kind of like, "ah, it's on its way out." So I sold and I made my bag. I observed Bitcoin since then, I realized that the best way to make money off of Bitcoin is to sell Bitcoin, which is why I got with coinbitsapp.com right and became an equity partner in that company.

So that was last year, so being in this space, I've been just watching, lurking, I haven't said anything, just lurking. The whole fire that started last week, was me asking a question, "what is this? What is this BSV thing?"

Peter McCormack: Okay, so you're aware of Bitcoin, you've bought some, sold it, but have you been down the rabbit hole of reading the books, finding out the tech?

Hotep Jesus: I mean I bought "Bitcoin Standard", I read that, I did the knowledge, but I didn't get into how to set up a node. I've seen Bitcoin mining farms, I know how they work. You got to remember that I come from a computer science background, so when dudes say "gigamegs", I was just like "gigamegs?! You guys are trying to call me a fraud and this guy doesn't know the difference between a gigabyte and a megabyte?"

Peter McCormack: He's already blocked you now hasn't he?

Hotep Jesus: Yeah of course he's got me blocked. But I was repairing IBM computers at 16 in 96. I was a troll on AOL, so when people tried to show me internet, I'm was like "dog, I was doing this before you were born." So I'm not new to any of this technology stuff, it's just that when you talk about the technical things on Blockchain and things like that, I never had an interest in it, it's just now recently I said "okay, I have an interest in this."

I look at how I study, I compartmentalize and the last 12 months was like, "I'm going to study communism." So I studied it, I feel like I have a good grasp on it and I'm still studying it. Actually the past two years, it's more like economics as a whole and the last year was more like Russian Revolution and communism. So now it's like, I'm back to Bitcoin! Let me understand this thing from a technical perspective.

Peter McCormack: Okay, so are we talking a few weeks ago?

Hotep Jesus: Yeah, just recently.

Peter McCormack: So you're coming in, okay. So why for you are you not instantly like, "Bitcoin is King and every other cryptocurrency is garbage." Why is that not a natural thing? I ask this facetiously because this is what Bitcoiners expect. Why have you not just rejected every single cryptocurrency there is?

Hotep Jesus: That's just not how I'm set up to learn, I don't reject ideas and thoughts. I'm set up to listen to everything and everybody across any subject, even when it comes to communism. For a while I sat down and I really tried to wrap my head around communism and socialism and I came to a fail every single time, but I've really tried to wrap my head around it. I still to this day try to wrap my head around... I just like to wrap my head around things. It makes me a well-rounded person and it lets me see things.

Also, if I can see the counter argument, then I'm like, "all right, we'll just implement over here with Bitcoin core." No matter how much education I get from the other coins, it's still going to help me with Bitcoin. I know Bitcoin is King, right? We sell Bitcoins, so we know Bitcoin's King, that's what people don't understand. It's like, "I sell Bitcoin, of course I know Bitcoin is King!" But I still want to be in a conversation, I still want to hear what these people got to say.

Peter McCormack: How much of it do you want to be in the conversation because it creates awareness, awareness for you and a monetization opportunity and how much is it just about you wanting to learn?

Hotep Jesus: 90% is me wanting to learn. I didn't even think about the monetization aspect until the super chats came in. I was like, "oh wait, I can get money from this." It was like I was getting paid to learn. Originally it popped up, I was talking about this on my show last night and it popped up because I wanted to learn and I always go back to this. I say, "if anytime you want to learn something, make their teacher debate somebody." You have to make people debate. I always go back to like when we talk about black history, my master teacher, John Henrik Clarke rest in peace, he had a debate against Mary Lefkowitz, which is one of my most favorite debates.

Or if you go look at [Inaudible 35:04] TV, where they debate ancient Hebrews and ancient Egypt and all these different philosophies that are years old and Moorish and all of that, but they always had debates. So I grew up in a culture of debates and in the "Hotep community", that's what we do, we debate! That's the thing to do. If you go look at Brother Polight debating the rabbi, you notice all these different debates as a culture I come from and that's how I learned about my culture, through debates.

So when I came into this Bitcoin thing, I said, "I want to learn about this. I actually have power to set this up." I didn't have that power last year. This year I have the power to say, "yo, let me do a debate."

Peter McCormack: So you heard about BSV. What were your initial thoughts? Do you remember how you became exposed to it?

Hotep Jesus: Yeah, I was exposed to BSV, I got the HandCash app back in June, I want to say and I didn't do nothing with it, it was just something. But the BSV thing came because people brought it to me.

Peter McCormack: Was that the result of Rogan because it just got mentioned?

Hotep Jesus: Yeah, that's what it was! It was mentioned on Rogan.

Peter McCormack: You got blamed for that, but it was actually Jamie who mentioned it, right?

Hotep Jesus: Right, Jamie mentioned it and everybody kept saying that I was talking about it and I was just like, "no, that was Jamie."

Peter McCormack: I remember hearing that, I was just like, "urgh!" I actually was driving, I was driving from Denver to Boulder, I was listening to it and I heard it and I was like, "urgh, here we go. Fucking BSV!"

Hotep Jesus: Well when people brought it up, they almost tricked me into believing I brought it up. I was like, "yeah, I think I did mention it."

Peter McCormack: No, it was Jamie cause his friend uploaded the MP3.

Hotep Jesus: Right! So I watched the clip when he played it back and I'm like, "yeah, Jamie said that, it wasn't me!

Peter McCormack: Okay, so you heard about it then. So my expectation is, what happens is you get these groups of people who are very staunch supporters of a coin and they see an opportunity and they latch onto it. So Hotep is an opportunity, Hotep has an audience, so I'm expecting that BSV people came to you?

Hotep Jesus: Yeah.

Peter McCormack: So can you even remember the differences between Bitcoin and BSV from the outset? How were people explaining it to you and the conclusions you initially came to?

Hotep Jesus: BSV was talking about hash rates and Bitcoin was talking about price, that was the main arguments. BSV is talking about transactions per block and Bitcoin's talking about price. I found both of those arguments to be weak, so that's what really intrigued me because every time somebody brought me an argument, I was like, "I don't know shit about this, but these arguments suck!"

Peter McCormack: Well this is one of my problems with working with certain Bitcoiners and I've ended up pissing them off because I don't want to just comply with their way of thinking. I think we have this assumption that everybody should automatically see our worldview and agree with us. I went through it myself. I interviewed this guy Roger Ver who did Bitcoin Cash and I got a lot of shit for it and this other guy Rizun, but I had to find out myself and sometimes the arguments about on chain scaling, I was like, "oh yeah, that kind of makes sense."

Over time, I've realized it's all bullshit. But I'm just saying that I think these people have become intolerant to even help guide people through and I think that's kind of what happened with you. So where's your level of understanding with it now?

Hotep Jesus: A little bit better than originally and I say that because there's a lot to learn. The thing is about being knowledgeable is knowing how much you don't know yet. So the debate really showed me, not so much teaching me, but teaching me like, "okay this Blockchain thing is deep! There's levels to this Blockchain thing, it's not just Blockchain, there's protocols and different versions of protocols."

Then you have Lopp, he has the resource website, so I've been slowly reading up and trying to figure out where to start really. For me, I think my start is just setting up a node, let me just put some skin in the game and then once I get a node set up, then I'm going to come back and study some more, because what people have to realize is, I don't give a fuck. I don't care about Bitcoin at all, let's just be clear about that. I don't care about BSV.

Peter McCormack: Is that because you don't care that you don't care about anything apart from your family?

Hotep Jesus: Correct, because I don't care about shit! Only thing I care about my kids and my girl. So when people treat this Bitcoin thing like as their girl, I'm like, "ah, I'm not in love with this thing, it's just a tool to help us get somewhere." Now I'm like, "well, is it going to help us get somewhere?" That's what I'm trying to figure out.

Everybody's saying it is, but when they bring these arguments to me and I can refute these arguments, both BSV, BCH, no matter who you bring, I'm just like, "I can destroy your arguments." So if you say, "price is the reason why you should mess with Bitcoin." I'm like, "well Nike has the most expensive shoes on the market and I fucking hate Nike." They're number one in the market and I fucking hate Nike. They don't make the best shoes.

Peter McCormack: So you're thinking of these like brands, rather than...

Hotep Jesus: It is a brand! We cannot get away from the fact that the US dollar is a brand. Everything is based around sentiment.

Peter McCormack: So I'll tell you where I'm kind of at with it now. I don't actually check price anymore now, so I focus on earning money through podcasting and less so now on trading. I don't trade anymore because I wasn't very good at it and I stopped checking on price and I've become very interested in what the technology can do. I'm now in this position were like, "yes, if Bitcoin goes up I can make money", which is cool. But also what about these other amazing things it can do? Can it help people living under authoritarian regimes? Can it help separate money and state?

Hotep Jesus: That's what I care about!

Peter McCormack: So when you say you don't give a fuck about Bitcoin? I do, because I'm like, "fuck, we can actually do something that makes the world a better place." Therefore for me, the distinction between Bitcoin and BSV is really important. For me, it's really important to talk to you and it's not just about you having an audience, but being able to convince someone like you that Bitcoin is a better vision. If I can do it with you, I can do with others and we can get people from away from what I think are shitcoins and scams. So that's where I'm at, does that make any sense?

Hotep Jesus: Yeah, it does, absolutely. I'm more about the end game. To me, the end is just to find a means, right? So I don't fall in love with the means, I don't. It's just a pathway to get there. I fall in love with what's the end game? What's going to happen? So if it's Bitcoin, fine. But the thing is, a lot of times people get so stuck on the tool, they forget the end game. So they fallen so in love with Bitcoin, that when people enter this space, they're not even becoming welcome and they're forgetting this is about regime change. We have to allow people to come in and purchase a few shit coins and lose money, to come back to Bitcoin.

Peter McCormack: So interestingly I was out last night with somebody who again was questioning why I'm doing this and I was like, "so I can help." He said "the only way people learn is by getting wrecked" and I said, "well that's not entirely true. I mean it's helpful."

Hotep Jesus: That's how I learned in the stock market.

Peter McCormack: But if you get too wrecked, you might never come back. I've never gone back to the stock market because I got wrecked, just got totally wrecked. I don't trade Bitcoin or things, because I got wrecked. I think yes, that is a helpful tool, that's a helpful tool at teaching that these shit coins have no value, but I also think education and spending time with people...

Hotep Jesus: Well, the thing is, education isn't on Bitcoin, education is on investing. You don't actively trade, that's the first rule. Don't actively trade anything, you dollar cost average. When I purchase my stocks, I take the same amount every month and I purchase the same three stocks every single month. Whatever money is left over, I spend on options contracts.

Now if I lose, I lose, if I win, I win and the wins I gain from the options, I put back into the longs. But that's the education that needs to be taught, is how to invest. It's not really so much about what you're investing in, but it's what's your strategy and if you're trying to be a day trader, that's a full time job. Like I said before, I don't like working, so I wouldn't be a day trader. Matter of fact I got an options contract on gold, I need to see if it's going to sell today! But even my options contract on gold, I got in that a little too early, but I would've made like 500% or maybe 600% between yesterday and today.

But I didn't lose much money on that because I was just gambling like loose change. You saw that guy, who put up $700 on the options contract and he came out, I think half a million, Asian guy, I don't know if you saw that story? But like $500 to make half a million?

Peter McCormack: I'd love that!

Hotep Jesus: Right! So that's how I played the options game, you never gamble more than you're willing to lose. So it's the investing that needs to be taught, that's why I keep talking about people in the hood, people to learn, because here's the thing, I thought all white people knew how to work the stock market. The more I talked to people, the more I found out that nobody understands the stock market! It's not just a black thing.

Peter McCormack: Yeah, like most lose money.

Hotep Jesus: I'm just like, how could you lose money in the stock market? This shit is so easy, but then I had to remember...

Peter McCormack: Fear and greed.

Hotep Jesus: Correct, it's fear and greed! FOMO all day. I think I started the stock market down $1,200, that's how I started. But that's how you learn, it's the cost of education. You go to school and you pay for a degree, that's how you learn, you got to lose money.

Peter McCormack: So you probably won't know the story, everyone who listens to the show does. So with Bitcoin and shit coins, I traded $32,000 up to $1.2 million and then pretty much lost the lot.

Hotep Jesus: Wait, what?

Peter McCormack: So I traded all the way up, but in my head, it was going to keep going up.

Hotep Jesus: Oh, you didn't come out at the million?

Peter McCormack: And then I bought a half a million dollars of mining gear to start mining and that didn't work because I got into a big contract, so I lost a load of money there and I pretty much took myself down to what my tax bill was and I was done. So that's why I think some people have to accept that they're not built for as well. I can build businesses, so what I do now is I record the podcast, I sell my ads and I buy Bitcoin every month and that's all I do.

Hotep Jesus: Yeah, that's how you got to do it! See I would've probably got out at like $60,000. The way I've trained myself, I wouldn't even have made it to the million.

Peter McCormack: But that was the point and I had this stupid goal in my head, there were some things I wanted to buy, so I was like, "I need to get to 5 million. Based on this, another three months" and then it just crashed.

Hotep Jesus: And you waited, you waited, waited and then it was too late!

Peter McCormack: All right, so where do you think you're going with this whole, we might as well say cryptocurrency thing, because you're not a Bitcoin only guy. Where are you going with this?

Hotep Jesus: I don't know. I have no idea, wherever it takes me, man. We did the first debate last week, thank you for coming on, that shit was awesome.

Peter McCormack: I'm not a debater by the way, I never ever do them because I'm not very technical and I'm not very, I prefer to ask questions and have a conversation, I'm not very good at debating because I can't think on my feet. So it's very rare for me to do that, I just wanted to go on and laugh at those couple of guys. But I had to have Shinobi, so thank you for having me, as that's not my bag normally.

Hotep Jesus: Yeah, Shinobi did an excellent job. I'm a debater and my family are debaters. So my brother, he's a computer science guy, computer nerd, he works for a big bank and he handles their all their IT stuff and my dad's a debater. So when we have family gatherings and it's us three, we debate all day long until my mom says "shut up!"

Peter McCormack: So I want to see that, I want to come and have some of your mum's cooking, we're going to do it all in one go! It's very interesting, so you as an outsider coming in, be honest, tell us what our space and our industry and group of people look like and even frame it like that. How does it look to you?

Hotep Jesus: They look like liberals. They remind me of liberals.

Peter McCormack: Because?

Hotep Jesus: Liberal snowflakes, a lot of emotion, they remind me of feminist pussyhats.

Peter McCormack: Okay, it's interesting because a lot of them would say they very much aligned with... A lot of them are libertarians, but also probably a lot of them lean a bit more towards the Republican side. There's a very strong alignment between the destruction of the state and Bitcoiners and gun rights and Bitcoiners. So for you to say that, is quite interesting.

Hotep Jesus: Well, when I say liberal, I don't put a distinction between Republicans, Democrats and Conservatives, they're all liberals to me. Conservatives, Republicans, Democrats, there's six degrees of separation between them. So when I say liberals, I'm talking about... I feel like if you're not leaning towards anarchy or anarcho capitalism, you're a liberal in my world and you're damn near a communist in my world.

You want the government to step in anything outside of ratifying or removing things, I think is stupid, but that's neither here nor there. So when I look at these people, I look at them as emotional women, they all act like women to me, because if you came into my space and you started talking shit, I would just would ignore you.

Peter McCormack: Shut up and rap!

Hotep Jesus: Exactly, just shut up and do what you do. When I get on Twitter, I don't really check the timeline, I don't check nobody else's feed. I'm in my world, I say what I got to say and I talk to my followers and that's it. So if you're over here talking shit, I don't even see it. People would bring me something talking shit and I'm just like, "huh, that's funny, they're talking about me" and I'm just onto the next, like I don't care.

So when I entered this space and people were bitching at me and they say, "oh why are you all on his nuts" and "why are you treating him like some God" and all that stuff. I'm like, "why do you care? That's gay. If you don't like me, mute me or block me and go on with your day." Like the guy who blocked me, what's his name, Calvin?

Peter McCormack: Calvin Ayre?

Hotep Jesus: Yeah, so Calvin Ayre...

Peter McCormack: That was surprising though because he had an opportunity to co-opt you into the BSV space, right?

Hotep Jesus: Yeah and he acted real weird, I don't know what his deal is.

Peter McCormack: He is weird!

Hotep Jesus: He acted real weird, then he was talking shit and I wouldn't respond because I don't know who you are and I don't care about you. So I responded one time to him, I think I said "giga-megs", like don't talk to me, you said gigaa-megs, you're invalid in my world now. I can't speak to you, I can't take you serious for being in this world and use the term giga-megs.

He has me blocked, but then he still comes to my page and talks shit about me! So I'm like, now I have to block you because you got to play fair. Don't talk shit about me behind the block, like that's gay. So when I look at that stuff I'm just like, "this space needs some masculinity!" So that's what I'm bringing, is masculinity.

Peter McCormack: But soy gets thrown around a lot, people say and they use that term a lot.

Hotep Jesus: I use that term a lot too and that's how I see, a lot of soy in this community. I feel like you got to get rid of that first, all the soy and all the emotions. If I'm a BTC guy and you come to me shilling some coin, I'm just going to say, "okay, that's cute. I'm a BTC guy, I sell BTC. You want to buy BTC, we got it. If you don't, go somewhere else."

Peter McCormack: So that's interesting because I think people are seeing you as somebody who's trolling and shilling, but you haven't actually really shilled things, you've just talked about them. I guess the argument is they're like, "oh, he's giving a platform to it."

Hotep Jesus: That's what they're mad about. They're just mad that I'm giving it light and it wasn't intentional. I didn't know that y'all had a war! I stepped in and then I was like, "wait, I'm in the middle of the crosshairs" and I didn't know that. So then I was like, "oh let me step back out of the crossfire and figure out what's going on here." So then when I troll, that's me stepping into the crossfire and choosing when to step in and step out, you know what I mean?

But it wasn't intentional efforts, but now it's like, I don't specifically give Bitcoin a platform or give BSV a platform, the only thing I respond to are things that I'm uniquely interested in. If you say... Like HandCash app, I had the app on my phone and that was on there since June, I can show you the beta version on my phone right now.

So when somebody said they wanted to send me something, I think they said they wanted to send me the BSV in a wallet, I was like, "yo, just send it to my HandCash, I'm not going to download a new app, send it here." So then that started all these people sending me stuff.

Peter McCormack: Didn't you get like $200 or something?

Hotep Jesus: Yeah I'm up to like $240 now, but I didn't plan that, it's just that it happened organically. I didn't want to push HandCash app or BSV. I might cash out the BSV and flip it to BTC.

Peter McCormack: So I'm a Bitcoin guy, but you can donate on my website, I don't care. If you want to send me, like I won't accept BSV for personal reasons, but if someone wants to send me Monero, Litecoin, Ethereum, I'll take it and I just convert it to Bitcoin. I've got absolutely no issue with that at all. I won't support those projects, I won't promote them, but I have absolutely no problem at all and I guess you're doing the same.

Hotep Jesus: That's it, I'm an equal opportunity guy, I'm leaning on the capitalist end of things.

Peter McCormack: I tell you one thing though, you have... Anyone who's got numbers will be seen as a good person with the community. Do you know Russell Okung? He plays for the LA Chargers.

Hotep Jesus: No.

Peter McCormack: So he's a Bitcoin guy and he's just Bitcoin only. He's been elevated up in the Bitcoin community, everyone loves him, sees him as a good supporter. You equally are seen as a potential tool by everyone, that's why the BSV guys are sending you coins, that's their approach.

Hotep Jesus: Yeah, they trying to buy me.

Peter McCormack: Yeah, they are trying to buy you. The Bitcoiner guys will tend to be like, "go fuck yourself, go get yourself wrecked. Once you come back, we'll be here for you." That's what they tend to be like. That's the position you have then, if you end up becoming just a staunch Bitcoin guy, "fuck everything else", then you'll have a lot of people behind you and supporting you. Are you aware that that's how it's working? It's a game.

Hotep Jesus: Fuck them! That's how I feel, I don't do shit for cloud. I do shit because I believe in it and if I have to say "screw every other coin" to get support, then I'm just going to have to go without your support.

Peter McCormack: That's fair enough.

Hotep Jesus: Fuck you, that's my attitude. I'll go 100% BTC when I know the technical things about it, when I do my due diligence, when I feel like... After my first debate I'm going to debate somebody on crypto one day. I don't know when, but when I feel ready I'm going to put it out there and say, "who wants to debate?"

Peter McCormack: Have you noticed that liquidity is King? That's the most important thing with these coins, it's all about liquidity. Can I sell or buy my coin here and sell elsewhere?

Hotep Jesus: Well, what does liquidity mean in crypto?

Peter McCormack: In terms of selling volume. So a good example is when the total market cap for Bitcoin in the very early days, was say $1 million, you couldn't do $1 million trade because there wasn't enough people buying and selling. So you would destroy the price if you were selling. Now I can sell $1 million of Bitcoin tomorrow, it's not going to affect the price, but maybe I can't get to $1 billion. So liquidity is King because you have to have enough buyers and sellers so you can do enough trade.

So for example, if you're a guy in China and you want to take merchant money out China because of capital controls, you can buy Bitcoin and then you can send it to Australia or the US and sell it. So liquidity is King. Without liquidity, there's absolutely nothing. There's lots of other important factors about how it works, is it censorship resistant, is it decentralized, but liquidity is King. This is the understanding I've got to it, most of the coins are trending to zero because they can't get enough liquidity. Have you looked into that?

Hotep Jesus: Well that was my problem with BSV. Right after my debate BSV went up like 18% and I was like, "that's not good. That's not good at all." If Hotep Jesus can affect the price of a coin, I don't know if I want anything to do with it. That really, really scared me and people were bringing it to me like it was good news and I'm like, "dog, this ain't good news for ya'll, this is not good news at all. I'm actually really worried."

I was talking to my girl this morning, she's like, "what's wrong, you in deep thought", I'm like, "yo, people are saying that I caused the 18% hike in a coin and they think it's good" and I was trying to wrap my mind around why they thought that was good. I get it, because they own it and...

Peter McCormack: But they think you can be bought and maybe your ego can be bought.

Hotep Jesus: It can't man, like my ego's in check. I got a huge fucking ego, don't get me wrong, but it's in check. I'm guided by God and God first and guided by my intuition. I'm not guided by my ego. My ego is how I express and my expressions come out through my ego. But the decision making, that's handled by the big guy up top, so you can't buy me! Also you got to understand that I grew up in a six figure income house, money don't impress me. I don't walk around with shiny shit, I could buy all that shit, you know what I'm saying?

I got an iWatch I forgot to charge, that I ain't going to wear today. I'm not impressed by things. My dad had cars, my dad has a Corvette right now, he just bought the new Tesla truck. My brother had a Porsche, we had Porsches around the house when I was a kid, we went vacations, I had a passport when I was younger and I've seen the world. Y'all can't buy me!

I can't be bought and money don't impress me, dog. I can call my mum right now for a small loan of half a million, how can you buy me? I can call my brother right now and say, "yo bro, I need $100,000", I can call my sister and say "yo need $100,000" and I can get it!

Peter McCormack: So how did your family do it and then the rest of your extended family in Jersey, not. What was the difference?

Hotep Jesus: My mum! My mum was completely different from the rest of the family. She was the big earner in the family. She was the baby of the family and sometimes when you're the baby you get to see everybody else's mistakes.

Peter McCormack: I'm the baby of mine.

Hotep Jesus: Are you? So are you the most successful?

Peter McCormack: It depends how you measure success. In terms of my ability to hold down a relationship and keep my marriage together, no! My brother did and I see that as a success. In terms of financial, yes, I've earned more than my brother and sister, but then my sister is a teacher, which is an amazing profession and she just cycled from England to Ireland to raise money for charity. So there's different ways you can measure it, right?

Hotep Jesus: They have traditional roles, well I would call them more traditional roles. You and me have more non-traditional roles, we have the freedom to roam and do what the fuck we want, when we want.

Peter McCormack: Yeah, I just can't fit in so I have to do something different. But yes, I would say financially, yes.

Hotep Jesus: So you figure, my father was an electrical engineer, an electrical inspector. He was only one of two black guys that were electrical engineers in New Jersey. He went through a lot of hell in that job, getting that job and getting that license. So my dad earned six figures, my mother earned six figures, my brother earns six figures, my sister earns six figures. My brother was computer science, he went to NJIT, he's a math genius. My sister's a doctor, she works for a hospital and she runs the administration department in New York.

So I saw all these people around me succeed in these traditional roles. I saw myself as, they were my college, they were my examples of what not to do. So thank you for showing me what your life is like in these roles, that shit ain't for me. But I had an education from being around them and it just made me a better person. Plus my dad, he nurtured me. Like I said, when I was building computers, he brought those home.

When the law office was taking those computers and throwing them out, he brought them home and there'd be 10 of them stacked up. So I'd have to grab the manual, boot them up, look at the error codes, figure out what the problem was, "oh, it's a bad hard drive, all right, which one of these got a hard drive?" Pop the hard drive out, pop it in there, see the error code, "alright, no more error, that's cool."

Now let's get to the operating system in there, "oh, we got one booted up, boom, put that one to the side." So my dad really nurtured that. We used to go to computer shows and build our computers from scratch, like "you'll get this motherboard, get that case, get that fan", you know?

Peter McCormack: Have you wished "Halt and Catch Fire"?

Hotep Jesus: No, I don't watch TV.

Peter McCormack: It's about the early days of computers. That's given me that feeling when you're saying...

Hotep Jesus: I'd probably love it! So my parents nurtured me, man. So along the way, anytime I need something, they always been there. That's why I say I can't be bought, because I can always make that phone call.

Peter McCormack: All right, so a couple other things. I can't overly comment on it, because I'm in a legal situation, but what is your opinion on Mr. Craig Wright?

Hotep Jesus: I think he's a fraud! I thought that from the moment that it was announced. I read the Satoshi writings from before, you kind of had to if you got into Bitcoin. The first video I watched of him talk, I was like, "that ain't no Satoshi Nakamoto, ya'll going to get this dude out of here, who is this dude ya'll got up here!"

So I wrote him off the minute he came out and never thought about it until the debate. Then when you guys said it, I'm like, "oh that's his name, Craig?" Then it was like, "Craig's is the dude that created the Satoshi Vision," I'm like, "oh that's that dude! Oh I got to get in on this."

Peter McCormack: So somebody early on said something that was quite funny, it was like, "why didn't they call it Craig's vision?"

Hotep Jesus: Exactly, that's a good point!

Peter McCormack: But that's a signal of why to ignore BSV, because your two leaders are Craig Wright and Calvin Ayre. So for me that's like a signal to just ignore it.

Hotep Jesus: Are those the two leaders?

Peter McCormack: Essentially. Well Craig, it's his vision, if he's Satoshi.

Hotep Jesus: Did he create it?

Peter McCormack: Yeah, because it's his vision. But it's all financed by Calvin Ayre's money.

Hotep Jesus: Is it? Because he's the one financing BSV?

Peter McCormack: Yeah.

Hotep Jesus: Oh yeah, fuck BSV now. See I didn't know that.

Peter McCormack: See now we're done!

Hotep Jesus: Yeah fuck BSV because Calvin's a dick! If Calvin is running it, BSV is communist.

Peter McCormack: Well there's three. There's Calvin, there's this guy called Jimmy, I just call him Jimmy the snake, he's like the lawyer and then Craig, they're the three people. So what happened is, he had the fork from Bitcoin, for Bitcoin cash, which essentially became Roger Ver and Jihan Wu's attempt to destroy Bitcoin, because they believed in on chain scaling, blah, blah, blah, the big war.

Roger Ver brought Craig Wright into the picture, he became part of it and they fell out. So then Craig ends up working for this N-chain thing, becomes their Chief Scientist, which is such bullshit along with Jimmy and then Calvin financed the split. So essentially they call it "Bitcoin's original vision", but actually it's a fork of Bitcoin Cash, which is a fork of Bitcoin, which they're trying to undo. But yeah, it's all those dudes. There's no one respectable behind it.

Hotep Jesus: Yeah, see that's a problem. When you got a guy, one man or a group of men financing something, they got final say. That's centralization and that's exactly what I don't like, a small group of men conspiring behind closed doors and then being in charge of potential money?

I'm trying to wrap my head around this, now that you actually gave me this information and I'm not happy at all, because if I was a billionaire, I wouldn't have the attitude of Calvin Ayre. I'd probably be a different version of Hotep Jesus too, there'd probably be a lot less Twitter and a lot more action, because you got the money and the means to do it. So the fact that he's sitting on Twitter with Twitter fingers, kind of says something about his character if I'm broke, compared to him and I won't do Twitter fingers back and forth.

Peter McCormack: Also, they're suing me for saying words, that's the reality. I don't know how much you know about the legal case, but...

Hotep Jesus: Liable, right?

Peter McCormack: Yeah, they're using the UK because we have strict rules in the UK, because I said he's a fraud and said he's not Satoshi Nakamoto, which is kind of really obvious he isn't, but they're suing for words. This is a guy, a billionaire saying he wants to bankrupt me and yeah, they want to create better money for the world. It's like the two things don't go together! They want to create censorship resistant money, but they want to censor people. Actually the whole language changed actually, they don't want to create censorship resistant money now, their statists.

Hotep Jesus: I wish I had the means and I'd kill BSV right now. I believe that... It's slipping my mind, but I was studying this week, I don't know the words, but there's a way you can actually crash the coin.

Peter McCormack: The 51% attacks?

Hotep Jesus: Yeah there it is! I would do that if I had the money, I'd 51% it. I don't know why somebody just doesn't come in and do that right now, if it costs about $20,000 - $30,000 to do.

Peter McCormack: So this is the point. This is why I'm glad we had this conversation because you've got to get through these things and explain things to people, to get to a point where they have the full knowledge and that's the problem with most of these coins. The reality I came to is like, the difference between Bitcoin and everything else, is everything else is kind of a company. Even if it isn't incorporated, it's kind of a company.

Hotep Jesus: Absolutely it is.

Peter McCormack: If they did a pre-mine, they're essentially shares and there's a group of people who benefit centrally from its success. Bitcoin is about as decentralized as you can get. The difficulty is, is that people will sell you different benefits of other coins and then they'll give you narratives. They'll say "Bitcoin's censored because it's on Reddit" or they'll tell you that "Core have taken over!"

It's all bullshit, but people get sucked in and end up repeating the messages and this is why people really want to defend Bitcoin, because of all of them, Bitcoin is the one that is really about trying to improve life, take money away from the government so they don't spend on bonds and just create a better world for people. So that's why I'm glad we did this.

Hotep Jesus: Yeah, I never conflated Reddit with actual Bitcoin, because I tried to post to Being on Bitcoin and they shot it down and then the guy who runs the Reddit, the moderator or whatever, he came on my mentions and he was talking shit about me and he's like, "oh you're just grifting" and this that and the third. I didn't respond obviously because there's false claims, but I didn't conflate that with Bitcoin, because my experience on Reddit it's that Reddit is just trash.

Peter McCormack: It's the worst of the worst.

Hotep Jesus: Yeah, like one time I tried to post one of my blog posts inside this black entrepreneurs chat and it was just very frank about the flaws of being a black entrepreneur, how everybody kind of goes into the same business and they banned me from the thread. I was just like, "yo, like what happened?"

Peter McCormack: What is the business they go into? You said blacks always go into the same business.

Hotep Jesus: Oh, like hair and rap and they always choose entertainment. Right now, everybody's doing eyebrows and nails, so it's like, "who's going to deviate from that" and I guess I'm one of the few black guys that goes into crypto. We've got to diversify what we get into, because the problem is... Oh and we do t-shirts, it's a big thing, everybody does t-shirts, because then you become your own competitors, you actually kill the black community from inside.

So I was bringing that perspective into the thread and then they banned me and he was like, "oh you're some white guy" and I reveal like, "yo, I'm not white, I'm black though!"

Peter McCormack: They thought you were a troll?

Hotep Jesus: Yeah, they thought I was a troll. But I've had that happen even in like startup threds, they don't like what I got to say about the startup works, as I'm very frank about what I see in the startup world. But that thing's a big Ponzi scheme, so they didn't want to hear anybody trying to mess with their bubble. So I've had that experience with Reddit, where people just don't want contrarian opinions. So I didn't conflate that with Bitcoin and the Bitcoin community.

Peter McCormack: Well I think you could be really useful for Bitcoin, that's the thing. The other guy I was talking to, Stop Into Crypt, we talked about it. I think if you get a full understanding of it, say you became somebody who's very into Bitcoin, without being coerced or playing to your ego, if it happens for you, I think you'll be very useful because there's not many people like you in Bitcoin. So I think you'd be very useful.

Hotep Jesus: I don't look at Bitcoin as a place to insert diversity, that doesn't enter my mind.

Peter McCormack: I wasn't thinking diversity, I was thinking more of your attitude of "just don't give a fuck."

Hotep Jesus: Oh, okay, yeah we definitely need that.

Peter McCormack: Although you say that, there was a guy called Isaiah. He's written a book called "Bitcoin and Black America".

Hotep Jesus: Bitcoinzay?

Peter McCormack: Yeah! I need to get him on actually, have you met him?

Hotep Jesus: Yeah, that's my homie.

Peter McCormack: I need to get him on. So we met and I've got his book, I've not read it, but I guess culturally you would be a better person to take Bitcoin to the black community than I would be.

Hotep Jesus: Yeah absolutely, they'll probably relate to me more. I'll be able to relate to them, speak the same language.

Peter McCormack: All right, well listen look, there's a couple of more things I want to ask you. What's this truth you tell your kids? Because I got kids and I tell them the truth.

Hotep Jesus: I teach them about media deception and educational system deception. So last night on my show, I was talking about the story of Christopher Columbus. So my daughter came home, and I'll do this every year if I have to, but she came home with some Christopher Columbus homework.

Peter McCormack: Discovered America bullshit?

Hotep Jesus: Yeah, so I took the piece of paper and I wrote on it and I said "his name isn't Christopher Columbus, it's Cristobal Colon, he was a rapist" and I sent it back to school. I said, "you're not doing this homework. We're not going to sit here and we're not going to learn about some rapists. That's just not what we're going to do." He was a homosexual that raped little black boys. In his own writings, he's talking about how sexy little boys look.

Peter McCormack: I've never heard this.

Hotep Jesus: You got to go to primary sources. I study primary sources and in his own writings, this is what this dude is talking about. So that's not somebody I want my kids learning about.

Peter McCormack: Well people turn the other cheek to stuff like that. It's not the same, but a similar thing is like, I won't ever, ever listen to Michael Jackson, because in my mind he's a pedophile. I've got a friend, she's a huge Michael Jackson fan and I'm like, "he's a pedophile. If I was a pedophile, you wouldn't be my friend anymore, so how are you approving this?" I think sometimes people just...

Hotep Jesus: It depends on how you look at it, because I don't look at him like that.

Peter McCormack: You don't?

Hotep Jesus: Nah I don't, I look at him as somebody that was falsely accused by the media conglomerate, because of who he was and what he was trying to do and what he was exposing. When you look at these stories and you look at what he was exposing before those stories came out and you start seeing how'd they get you out the pan, as we say. But right before those stories came out, he started talking about the media deception and the conspiracy. You can go look it up.

Peter McCormack: But you get to the point though, when don't know what the fuck to believe anymore, because every story has a... Unless you can find true facts in a situation, every argument has a counter argument, every story has a counter story.

Hotep Jesus: Well when I look at media, I just look at, what's the hidden message here? Why are they bringing this up? It's not about the details of this story, it's why they thought this story was relevant, is where we first have to start and is this story relevant, because they'll bring up something that's completely not relevant to my life whatsoever.

So I look at his life stories and I'll say, "well, if this is irrelevant, then why they bring it to my attention? They must be trying to distract me from something else." So you have to go deeper into the story to go find the truth.

Peter McCormack: And you and your, is it your wife or girlfriend?

Hotep Jesus: Girlfriend.

Peter McCormack: Are you on the same page with the kids?

Hotep Jesus: Yeah, shut up and be a mum, you know what I mean? When I'm dad, I raise the kids. You nurture, I'm going to raise the kids, I'm going to show them how this world works.

Peter McCormack: How did the school react to you writing back to them?

Hotep Jesus: They didn't say shit! My daughter got an A on that assignment. What are you going to say? You're really going to tell me and you're really going to have that argument? You don't want me to come down there and start talking social studies with your teacher, I'll run circles around a teacher in social studies. She hasn't studied what I studied about social studies. I could tell her exactly how the United States educational system became under communist control. She don't want to have that conversation.

She don't want to have the conversation about how she's not really an educator, she's an indoctrinator and she don't want to have that conversation with me, they know better. The way I write my emails, you don't want to talk to me. But like my kids, we watched Yuri Bezmenov, we went over that this summer to talk about how people are propped up. So Barack Obama, I like to put things in context, so I tell my kids, "look, we had this great black dude that was President. So yes, you can be President.

Now let's put this guy into context." So I show them Yuri Bezmenov and I started talking about how he's propped up as a puppet and showed them how to love Barack Obama and then understand that he's still just a puppet. You can love the person and not put too much faith in them, you see what I'm saying? The Donald Trump thing, like I remember when Donald Trump first got elected, my kids came home and they were all sad and I was like, "yo, what's wrong?" And they were like, "oh my God, it was just a long day."

We're talking about like, my kids are like 6 and 7! Then my son said something, he's like, "everybody was just mad because Donald Trump won." So I'm like, "so you're telling me that your entire school was depressed, because Donald Trump became President?" Meanwhile you know me, I like Trump, even though again, he's just a puppet, let's put that into context. So now I have to grab my kids and show them like, "look, Hillary's a criminal, so we didn't want that." So you kind of got to teach them the hierarchy of control.

So always start with the media and then I showed family members, like, "look at this family member. You see this family member, what are their daily habits?" They'll say, "they just watch TV all day." So I said, "what do you think the TV does to your mind?" And he said, "it's probably going to make you broke" and I can just let them start making these connections on their own and it just slowly changes their behaviors and their habits.

So my kids are more readers, we don't have cable in my house so they can't watch TV. I've conditioned them to only watch Japanese cartoons. I introduced them at the age of 5, the Japanese cartoons because I didn't want them watching Western cartoons because there's a lot of debauchery and homosexuality, that I didn't want them to be exposed to. So I put them on Japanese cartoons.

Peter McCormack: Homosexuality because?

Hotep Jesus: Because what?

Peter McCormack: Why can't they? They're going to see and they're going to know it exists in the world.

Hotep Jesus: Oh yeah, they know it exists in the world, but they don't need to see it in their entertainment. I think there's a lot more edifying things to teach a kid. So when you teach a kid DragonballZ, you teach them about emotional control, you teach them about spirituality, you teach them about discipline, you teach them about being a man and fighting for what you believe in and working out and exercising. These are good stimuli for a young boy.

Relationships, teaching a boy about relationships probably is the best thing for them. When my boys turned 16, I don't want them dating girls, period. I don't want them dating, period. That's a distraction. I'm going to tell them straight up, "yo, you're not allowed to date, you're an athlete, this is what you do. You're not dating. These girls aren't really going to look out for you." You know what I'm saying? They only want you, because you're starting on your team. There's going to be millions of girls later.

Peter McCormack: I can't adjust to your exact way of thinking, but I can appreciate a lot of what you're saying, it's very interesting.

Hotep Jesus: But I just feel like Japanese cartoons have a message, whereas in Western Civ we kind of lost some of that message in our cartoons. We kind of lost some of the masculinity in our cartoons, our cartoons are very soft now. I'm like, "nah, my kids need to see somebody get punched in the face and bleed!"

Peter McCormack: Take me back! What was one of my first ones, [Inaudible]

Hotep Jesus: Right! He-Man, GI Joe, where is the A-Team! Commando, Rambo, that's what we grew up on. These kids, they're not growing up on that stuff now, they're growing up on, what's the name of that one? When y'all wear the red outfits? The family, I forget that cartoon, but it's got the big bulky black dude.

Peter McCormack: Are they the like the superheroes?

Hotep Jesus: Yeah, the superhero family cartoon. You know what I'm talking, Disney or Pixar thing and the big black dude, he's the softest one, he's soy! But he's big and it's just like, why would I want my kids to see a black dude soft? I'd rather watch them watch a Japanese dude be cocky, you know what I mean? Don't make those connections in my kid's minds.

They like to do that with Hollywood and I don't want my kids to watch nothing coming out of Hollywood. They still see it, mum still takes them to some movies, I took them to see the Pokemon movie and a whole lot of things, but anytime they see something, I'm quick to put it in context. We talk about homosexuality in house, but I put it in context.

Peter McCormack: Okay. All right, last thing, because I am coming back mid-November, I will be with Hawk, the racial divide is still much bigger than in the UK.

Hotep Jesus: I don't believe that, but go ahead.

Peter McCormack: I think it is. I think in terms of debates and issues, like we had a Black Lives Matter thing happen in the UK where they're trying to shut down the airport and it felt very small. It felt like it was almost supporting what was happening out in the US right. So I'm trying to... It's my first time going into this area, learning about it and you talk a lot about like black culture and your kids. So what is the state of this in the US right now?

Hotep Jesus: We don't have a race problem in the US. We have a class problem in the US, we have a communist problem in the US, we don't have a race problem in the US. The race problem in the US is wholly propagated by media.

Peter McCormack: Is that to do with, I read something that it usually happens around the time of elections and it helps support the liberals.

Hotep Jesus: Yeah, every time election time come around, you can guarantee you're going to see more videos of black people getting shot by cops.

Peter McCormack: When the stats say there's no real difference?

Hotep Jesus: Right! More black people are killed by a chicken wing than by a cop and the numbers aren't even close. We're dying of high blood pressure, diabetes, heart disease and cancer, that's what's killing us. That's what's killing America, period! Heart disease is killing America. So when the media starts propping up all of these stories, like I said before, it's a distraction. But the race problem in America, we have to understand goes back to the second civil war. The second civil war is what I call the Civil Rights Movement. That was wholly inorganic. That was Black Lives Matter 1.0 and it was propped up by billionaires that wanted to create a divide in America to start another war.

Now we never got to war status because MLK was able to bring peace, that was his thing. But they wanted war, they wanted us to actually fight and we did. We saw people die in Charleston, South Carolina, it was a big massacre, this is history. But that was done through legislation, that was created through legislation, government created that!

Peter McCormack: So what do you think of Black Lives Matters? Is that a distraction? Is that itself a problem? Do you support it?

Hotep Jesus: I don't support Black Lives Matter. When Black Lives Matter first came out for a very brief moment, I supported it because it was in response to, I believe Trayvon Martin or Mike Brown, I forgot who it was. I think it was Trayvon Martin. So you may see me say "Black Lives Matter" back then.

Peter McCormack: Well really it was in the response to the guy getting off, more so it wasn't it?

Hotep Jesus: I believe so.

Peter McCormack: Zimmerman was his name?

Hotep Jesus: Yeah it was Zimmerman. So that case was heavy on my heart, but when I started really sitting down analyzing what was going on, I started seeing that we were being pawned again, we are becoming pawns. Then I took a look at the website and I said, "let me check this thing out", and I looked at the website and it said "mothers, parents, children." I said, "wait, why did they omit fathers?" I looked through the website and I'm like, "oh this is an LGBT organization, masters of black movement." So I exposed that, you can go look at those tweets.

I was at war with Black Lives Matter since almost since its inception, because I realized it was a ruse to co-op the black plight in America, which is wholly against the government and not against white people. It's totally against legislation, but Black Lives Matter is inorganic, it's an inorganic movement. Anything that gets support from the media is probably evil! Something that is getting that much support, you definitely got a question something that's getting a lot of support from media, so I don't trust nothing that gets support from media.

Then I had guys on the ground, RIP Darren Seals. Darren Seals, told me straight up that dudes were out there stealing money, Black Lives Matters was stealing money, they were stealing a spotlight. They would come, they would sit on the sidelines watching people protest, this is DeRay McKesson. DeRay McKesson would sit on the sidelines while people were actually protesting and cared about it, then he'd go in front of CNN and talk for that community instead of saying, "yo, I'm not from this community, I'm just tweeting about it. Let's grab somebody from this community and let them speak for their play."

So he became the figurehead for something and the people on the ground didn't even like DeRay, but he was taking credit for their whole thing. He never once corrected CNN when they gave him credit for a lot of the work they did. So I was pointing out this fraudulent stuff, pointing out the fraudulent Shaun King, but I've been wholly against that and I think their approach is wrong.

The beef in America that's happening right now is between white people. It's between so-called white liberals and white conservatives and what they did is they took black people and made us anti-MAGA and turned us into the front lines for the liberals to face off against conservatives, when conservative beef wasn't with black people.

Conservative beef was with the liberal policies that had been established in America and the liberals made black people think that the conservatives are racist and now got us fighting their war. I specifically align with Trump, just so black people could say, "yo, what are you doing", to ask that question, so I could let them know like, "yo, this ain't our beef dog, this ain't our war. Mind your business and let these white folks figure out what these white folks are dealing with. But this ain't got nothing to do with us."

Peter McCormack: Wow, so you're making me now think I actually want to have you with me when I'm with Hawk, because it would be interesting to see, asking questions and I can't check him with this, you can.

Hotep Jesus: I'd love to check him, set it up!

Peter McCormack: I've watched his debate with Candace Owens and that was not what I expected.

Hotep Jesus: I saw clips.

Peter McCormack: What's your view on her?

Hotep Jesus: She's a fraud, she's an opportunist, but she's sexy though. She look good in a dress! But she's an opportunist, she's doing what's best for Candace, so I can't knock her for that. Everybody in this world has free will, you can do what you want.

Peter McCormack: Well you said you're a capitalist.

Hotep Jesus: Yeah, I'm a capitalist, but I believe in doing what's right. There's a certain point where you have to say like, "I'm not going to compromise my integrity." Whereas with her it's like, she just wants to get to the money. Maybe because she didn't come from money, because she didn't, she admits this. I did, which is why money doesn't impress me. So it's different, which is why sometimes I can't follow her because if she never had and now she does have, she probably doesn't want to lose it.

You know what I mean? But to go online and lie and say that there's a great black awakening, it's not true. There isn't a great black awakening that's going to come and vote for Donald Trump. If anything, it's the opposite. People are more adamant this time around to not vote for Donald Trump. The same people that she brings to these rallies are people that would have voted for Donald Trump regardless if she existed or not.

She didn't really do anything, but I call them "basic bitch conservatives", because they just stick to the talking points. You'll never see them talk about crypto, it's not a talking point. In fact, if they talk about crypto, they'll probably get called a fraud and they'll lose points. Whereas me, I'm going to talk about Bitcoin and if you're a no coiner, then I'm going to laugh at you. You know what I mean? Whereas some people won't talk about Bitcoin, strictly because they know their base won't support it.

So it's real easy to grow your following when you say all the right things. So when I see people like that, I'm just like, "ah, whatever, you're like a waste of time." You're not trying to change anything, you're keeping the communist system going along.

Peter McCormack: Interesting! But look, I'll put it to Hawk, I'll say, "look, what do you think?"

Hotep Jesus: I'll eat him alive, tell him I said that.

Peter McCormack: Well, I don't want to do that.

Hotep Jesus: No, I really got beef with Black Lives Matter and he shouldn't be out here perpetuating as a black man. You should not have Black Lives Matter on a shirt, you should not be saying you're part of that organization, you need to go and call it something else, because Black Lives Matter is a ruse to destroy the black community. The black man is public enemy number one to Black Lives Matter.

Peter McCormack: Interesting. Do a lot of people think like this?

Hotep Jesus: Yeah, the Hotep community tell you quick. Black Lives Matter ain't for us. Anybody that is paying attention knows Black Lives Matter is not for us, we call them "brunch era blacks". Look at everybody that's for "Black Lives Matter" They all verify, they got cushy jobs under white people, they work for Huffington Post, CNN or some really good corporate job, Hotep Jesus can't get that job. If there's anybody that should be saying Black Lives Matter, it should be me because I can't get into mainstream because of the things I said.

Peter McCormack: You're not going to fit in dude and you don't want to be there, I don't want you to be there.

Hotep Jesus: No, I don't want to be there. I'm just saying that it reveals a lot about where we are that you're not allowed to think a certain way and if you do, you won't get access to that. So if you claim that you're oppressed, but you're verified and you get the largest platforms in America to express your opinion, you're contradicting yourself. That's a contradiction, you're proof that you're not oppressed.

We're not oppressed in this country, you are that proof and it seems like the only people that complain about it are them, and then they wholly misguide us. They tell us that the problem is white people. The problem ain't white people, it's not! It's communist regime, the laws. For example, if I wanted to start doing hair in my house, I can't do that. I could go to jail for that. You need permits! Kanye was talking about this in his recent interview.

Peter McCormack: You'll like this guy I met up in Wyoming called Tyler Lindholm. He's like a libertarian conservative, he represents one of the districts, he's like a rancher, a gun guy, but he's for deregulation. He said, "I just want less regulation. You have to get a permit to be a hairdresser. You're cutting hair!" So they got rid of that shit. I think you would like Wyoming.

Hotep Jesus: Yeah, well Kanye, that's where he set up, in Wyoming, because in California they made him tear down his domes. They said they were 10 feet too high. What?! 10 feet too high? What are you talking about? So all these restrictions, like Kanye said, the biggest form of control is slowing people down and bureaucracy is taking ideas and putting them in traffic. So when people and black people say, "oh it's the white man." It's like no, technically it's communism, because not every white person is a communist. Some white people out here do believe in less government.

Peter McCormack: I believe in less government!

Hotep Jesus: Right? So that's why my beef with black people, I'm like, "you mad at conservatives, but what they believe is going to help you out a lot more than what these liberals believe. Politically, ya'll agree more with them" and the liberals know that, which is why they turn you against them, because if you switch, it'll turn the entire tide of America, if black people switch to the conservative side. It would completely change.

I don't consider myself a conservative, I'm saying as an agitator, but if we switch to the conservative side, it would change the tide of America completely. But our problem ain't white people, it's bureaucracy man and to say that white men are oppressing us and to say that there's a system of white supremacy, is sidestepping the fact, that no, it's a system of communism. Then I'm going to give you the caveat, you ready? Every single person with LGBT in their bio's is also a Marxist.

People that are Black Lives Matter are also Marxists. How are you going to say that there's system of white supremacy, then side with that exact system, because they told you the Black Panther party was communist, because they showed you pictures of MLK at a communist rally and communist control MLK. So you think Marxism is the way to go, because you read some book about Marxism, because you read Karl Marx, now you think this is the way. But this is how you see things happening inorganically and that's how you know the communists are in control.

I mean, you go look at all the studies and they say, "when communists take control, they always go for the most oppressed people". That's the people, you can be handicapped, LGBT, whoever is the minority, is who they go after and they charge up the minority and get them to go fight the battle. That's what the Bolsheviks did, grab every minority and bolstered them together. That's what they do here, they took the minority of the minority.

So they took black people and said, "all right, well who's the minority? Trans-people, all right cool. There's been 12 trans deaths year, it's an epidemic!" So now Black Lives Matter has to fight this battle for trans-people. Then LGBT people, so you have the gays now, right? Every time I see a gay person, its Marxist in their bio.

So you sitting next to me saying you're Black Lives matter, which is a ruse and then they're Marxists. Then you're telling me that a white supremacist system is holding us back, but your supporting the exact system. Then when I tell you that the system holding us back is communism, you want to argue me down. You can't win that argument, you're going to lose.

Peter McCormack: I lit fire under you there! Dude, I have another show, my Defiance show. Maybe we'll have to get you on that and do like an alternative black view that people aren't hearing because I've not heard of any of this before.

Hotep Jesus: You're not going to, I'm one of a kind. There's a lot of people even on my side, not thinking what I'm thinking.

Peter McCormack: But you can be the only one?

Hotep Jesus: I didn't say the only one, I said "one of a kind." There's very few of me because there's not many people that have studied ancient Africa through the civilizations and have gone and studied the Russian revolution, studied communism, studied Federal Reserve commerce, studied crypto, like who's studying all of these things and getting this holistic view? Who is studying subversion? You got to remember my father came from intelligence section in the military, so I also have that background. So I understand how the intelligence section of these agencies work.

He has stories of missions I'm going to record one day and put out, closer to when he dies because it's classified information. But when he tells me these stories and he tells me what comes out in the news, he says, "yeah we did this and this came out in the newspaper the next day" and it's two completely different things. So if I'm still at a young age and I know this stuff, you're not really going to compete with that.

Peter McCormack: I need to study more about the history of Marxism and communism. All I know is that Karl Marx's legacy is death. That's all I know, that his legacy is death and...

Hotep Jesus: Trotsky is who you got to study.

Peter McCormack: Yeah, I know I need to understand more about it, because I have socialist friends and I struggle with having a good anti-socialist debate myself, but I'm not a good debater, I've said to you. I can picture it in my head, but I can't debate back, I'm much better at just asking the questions. But I need to know more about Marxism.

Hotep Jesus: It slides into Bitcoin because Bitcoin is decentralization and communism is centralization. When people ask me what communism is, that's my shortened definition, it's centralization. If you want a long definition, it's more like centralization of power for the purpose to control resources and people, to control capital goods. Then you have crony capitalisms and what we have is exploitation of socialist systems, because that's all they're doing, is they're using bureaucracy to have a corporate advantage or a capitalist advantage. But you can't do that without the government and their laws, but those laws are very communistic!

Peter McCormack: We've got a whole other show here!

Hotep Jesus: I can do this all day!

Peter McCormack: Well listen look, I can't as I've got to go and get plane. I'm so glad you came on, this is exactly what I hoped it would be. I don't agree with you on everything, there's certain things where I'm not there yet or maybe never will be, but I consider you a friend now. We'll definitely do this again, I'll talk to Hawk. There's going to be a backlash I think. I think some people are going to enjoy this as well and go "actually that was fucking well worthwhile." Some people are going to backlash, it'll be really interesting to see the responses. But yeah man, really appreciate you coming on.

Hotep Jesus: It's a pleasure man, thanks for having me.

Peter McCormack: Anything I can ever do for you, let me know.

Hotep Jesus: Oh definitely, I'll call you!