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Geraint Thomas' Tour de France triumph has created a debate on social media about where it ranks among Welsh sport's greatest achievements.

There have been so many truly iconic moments that gripped a Welsh nation - Geraint at the weekend, Ian Woosnam, Joe Calzaghe, Wales' Euro 2016 aces, Gareth Edwards and the legends of the 1970s.

So we put together a panel of real experts to debate 12 particularly memorable feats down the decades and come up with a definitive top three.

Our panel made their judgement on sporting excellence, of course, but also took into account the global recognition of various achievements and the impact individuals had on society as a whole.

It made for a truly compelling roundtable discussion.

THE PANEL

(Image: Richard Williams)

GARETH DAVIES

Chairman of the WRU, he played 21 times for Wales at fly-half and is a former chairman of the Sports Council for Wales and Head of Sport for BBC Wales.

PROF LAURA McALLISTER

Chair of Sport Wales from 2010-16, she played 24 times for Wales at football, sits on UEFA and is a hugely respected commentator on sport and politics.

BRIAN DAVIES

Sport Wales Director of Elite Performance, he has experience of more than 20 years working in sport. Led Team Wales to success as Chef de Mission at the 2014 Commonwealth Games

PAUL ROWLAND

Cycling fanatic and big general sports fan. He is Editor-in-Chief of Media Wales, overseeing WalesOnline, the Western Mail, Wales on Sunday and other print platforms.

Here are their fascinating views...

THE CONTENDERS

Lynn 'The Leap' Davies (Olympic long-jump gold, Tokyo 1964)

Gareth Davies: I think we need to be looking at a couple of things here, uniqueness of the sporting feat and longevity. Lynn scores heavily on each of those because he achieved something no other able-bodied person in Wales has managed by winning a track and field Olympic gold.

That in itself stands out, but you have to also remember Lynn's British record stood for almost 40 years until it was broken. Again, that demonstrates the freakish nature of how good he was.

The other thing I love is that everywhere he goes even today, he's known affectionately as 'Lynn the Leap." That shows his standing among the Welsh public, just as Thomas may be known as 'Geraint the Bike' in 30 years time.

Brian Davies: And it was raining in Tokyo too, conditions weren't great, making his gold effort even better.

Laura McAllister: Lynn deserves to be right up near the top of the list... but it was wind assisted, mind!

The thing you have to remember, and which often gets overlooked, is that he was only 22 at the time and didn't have the great support around him that athletes do today.

I grew up in the same area as him and everybody around there knew about Lynn the Leap. He absolutely is stamped into Welsh sporting folklore.

Paul Rowland: This has to be right up there as one of the best of the lot. He beat the whole world. Think of the nutrition and modern-day training jumpers like Greg Rutherford had access to. Yet it still took almost four decades to outdo Lynn. That's phenomenal.

BD: You also have to bear in mind he won gold in an era when there was strong competition. The Americans were really good at the time, but a young Lynn took them on and beat them. The fact no other Welsh person has won track or field gold, before or after, shows how difficult it is.

He's also given so much back, is always available to help promote the sport, talks on message, is President of UK Athletics. He was, and remains, a fantastic ambassador for Welsh sport.

Wales reach semi-finals of Euro 2016

LM : Beating Belgium, third-ranked team in the world, to get to the semi-finals was a truly iconic moment - whether you were there in Lille, as I was fortunate to be, or back home watching it on TV.

When Belgium scored early on there was a fear the floodgates would open. The players then just grabbed hold of that game - Ashley Williams, Aaron Ramsey, Joe Allen in particular - but everybody was magnificent.

The way we bounced back with Ash's equaliser and then played superbly in the second half was remarkable, as was the tournament as a whole.

For Welsh football fans it was the greatest summer they have had.

PR: One of my abiding memories of that game is thinking we were holding a truly talented Belgium side, defending well, maintaining hope. Then (Radja) Nainggolan smashes one in from 30 yards and it becomes 'How on earth are we going to win this?' But win it we did.

Just qualifying was an achievement. Once out there, when we scored a goal against Slovakia it gave us cause to celebrate and potentially go home happy. But to go on and actually reach the semi-finals was beyond the scale of what anybody imagined.

BD: Are we in danger a little, particularly given the wonderful homecoming celebrations, of building this up more on this list because we had been so starved of success? Not taking anything away from the magnificent achievement, just asking the question?

LM: We had beaten Italy and Germany, but were starved in a tournament environment which is what made it so special. We went further than Italy, England and Croatia, who two years on reached the World Cup final. Wales didn't actually win the Euros, but it's the equivalent of getting to the World Cup final ourselves.

GD: Cardiff City and Swansea City have had success, but this was about a desperation for the national football team to do well.

I probably wasn't as engrossed as the rest as I was in Hamilton Island, Australia, at the time. I recall waking up and seeing Wales had thumped Russia, then Belgium. Incredible.

I was staying with an English friend at the time - so I was quite happy!

Ian Woosnam (US Masters 1991 and world number one golfer)

PR: Some might question this being on this list, but I'm going to talk it up. In golf nothing is bigger than the green jacket and for a Welshman to go there, take on the Americans and win is phenonemal.

But what gets forgotten is that Woosie was also number one in the world for a year, in a sport that is followed and played throughout the globe.

GD: It sounds a silly thing, but the fact he's still known to everyone today as 'Woosie' says everything about his popularity.

I was at the Sports Council from 1999, a few years after this, but I was noticing the spin-off from what he had achieved in terms of funding of golf and more people taking up the sport.

Imagine the fuss we'd be making today if a Welshman was top of the US Masters leaderboard on a Saturday night - as Geraint was leading the Tour de France.

BD: Truth is I don't think we would have had the Ryder Cup here were it not for the influence of Woosie. That's how important this win was and the profile it helped bring to Welsh golf. I stayed up to watch it - one of those sporting moments you will never forget.

LM: You can have a rogue winner of a Major, but you can't have a rogue golfer at number one in the world.

Welsh rugby 1970s

(Image: Western Mail and Echo Copyright)

GD: If you're looking at an era in Welsh rugby, this would be the one. They were winners, with three Grand Slams and five Triple Crowns.

But there was so much more to this team than that.

Much of the demand for rugby today stems from what was achieved back in the 1970s. The players are still known by their Christian names. JPR, Gareth, Barry, Gerald, which says everything about the stature in which they are held.

BD: In that era the Welsh public were demanding idols and then these players came together at once, playing with a swagger and a style everybody loved. They have been immortalised because a nation needed success and got it through rugby.

The 2005 team was obviously bigger, fitter, stronger, perhaps better coached, but the 1970s side helped shape a nation. That, for me, is the bigger achievement - success on the field was great, but galvanising a nation was even greater.

LM: Perhaps a lot of this should centre around Gareth Edwards, rather than the team itself. His try for the Baa-baas against New Zealand, the way he conducted himself on the field and subsequently off it. Gareth is similar to what we have said about Lynn Davies, he is almost one of a kind.

PR: Wales 1970s almost tops another list. If you're talking about iconic Welsh sporting teams, this would be number one.

But just to give a different slant, what was the actual achievement? Grand Slams, yes, but the Five Nations/Six Nations is played every year.

They didn't beat the All Blacks, albeit Welsh players dominated the Lions side that did, and there was no World Cup to win back then. Which is a shame because that Wales team might have won it and then their achievements would have been even greater, on top of the legendary status the players have rightly got.

Nicole Cooke (2008 Olympic road race gold and world champion)

(Image: DAMIEN MEYER/AFP/Getty Images)

PR: Geraint Thomas is obviously being seen as a leader in cycling, but what Nicole achieved was absolutely remarkable too.

She overcame obstacles towards women in the sport, including funding not being as deep back then as it was for men, and still managed to win Olympic gold and the world title in the same year.

She also won the Grande Boucle, the women's version of the Tour de France, an extremely gruelling event. Perhaps the scale and significance of her achievements are not always recognised as highly as they should be.

LM: I totally agree, other than in terms of the funding. When she won the Olympics I was on the UK Sports Board at the time and there was a heck of a lot of money going into the British Cycling programme for women. Nicole did benefit from it.

To win Olympic gold and the world title in the same year is a unique feat and there is an argument for saying what Nicole managed was an even greater achievement in its own way than Geraint's.

BD: The remarkable thing for me was when Nicole won Commonwealth gold in Manchester because she did it on her own. There is a photo of her on the podium, surrounded by Australians. They worked as a team to try to stop her, but she beat them.

LM: And an individual doesn't get to beat a team too often.

BD: Perhaps that summed up Nicole's character at the time - it's me versus the world. And she triumphed, to her credit. What I would say is that people did try to put a support team around her, but sometimes that wasn't allowed to materialise.

GD: Geraint himself said he would never have won the Tour without Team Sky, so for Nicole to do it on her own was indeed remarkable.

That said, I wouldn't put Nicole up at the top of this list. Not because of her achievements, which were incredible, but because the impact it had upon a nation wasn't overly-significant.

Colin Jackson (world 110m hurdles champion 1993)

GD: This is definitely up there. He won in Stuttgart with a world record time of 12.91 seconds, which stood for 13 years. A heck of an achievement in an event the Americans expected to win.

I guess the only things you could say against Colin is that he never won Olympic gold, and perhaps he didn't stir the emotions of a nation as much as Geraint has done.

PR: The '90s was a golden era for track and field and I just think things conspired against him for the Olympics. I just have memories of him wearing knee supports, or being bandaged up because of injury at crucial times. But lack of Olympic gold shouldn't take anything away from Jackson. He wasn't just one of the best, he was THE best.

BD: There's an irony in this because the World Championships are probably harder to win. In the Olympics, entrants are limited because of the quota numbers, but in the Worlds everyone can compete. It truly is the best of the best.

Also, the 110m hurdles is as tough an athletics event as you can get. You have to run at the speed of a 100m sprinter, but also leap over waist-high hurdles, get your stride pattern back, leap again and so on. The only other event that ranks technically in terms of difficulty is the pole vault.

Joe Calzaghe (super-middleweight world champion, perfect 46-0 record)

(Image: Getty Images)

LM: How can you argue with this one? The facts and figures speak for themselves.

BD: They do and Joe's achievement over such a period of time was fantastic, but if you look at the run of fights they weren't great... with one standout iconic moment, his win over Mikkel Kessler at the Millennium Stadium. These were two amazing boxers of their era and it was a fantastic fight.

But if I'm honest quite a few of the others were drab. I watched every one of them. There were lots of times when his hand has raised after a points decision, but Kessler apart, how many really spectacular moments did we get?

LM: I would argue against that because when you have longevity, which Joe did over 10 years and 21 title defences, there are times when you have to win ugly, so to speak.

Manchester United dominated the Premier League title over a similar period and they had a lot of 1-0 wins during that time. That's what happens with champions.

For me Joe stands out because he lasted the test of time, unified the belts and then went up a weight to fight Bernard Hopkins and Roy Jones Jr at the end of his career.

Technically his fights were excellent, while not necessarily always exciting or exceptional, as you say.

GD: I'm with Laura to a degree, you simply can't argue with a 46-0 perfect record and 10-plus years at the very top. But I suppose some of it comes down to where and when you were able to watch Joe's fights, if you were.

He came through at a time when boxing was moving away from terrestrial TV and his fights weren't always accessible to a Welsh nation at large, who could buy into what he was doing. Which was obviously fantastic.

Tanni Grey-Thompson (11 Paralympic wheelchair racing gold medals, 100m, 200m, 400m, 800m)

(Image: PA)

LM: She has got to be right up near the top for a reason - she was a pioneer of Paralympics sport, winning those 11 golds between 1992-2004, and 16 medals in total.

To beat everybody like that, across various distances, was an incredible feat. But there's more to it than that. It's because of Tanni that the Paralympics is viewed as it is today and gets the publicity and TV profile that it does.

On top of that, she's such a lovely person. I've met Tanni a few times, been in Cardiff with her. Everybody stopped and wanted a photo taken with her, and this was the pre-mobile phone era. Such a great ambassador figure.

PR: She's a pioneer in every sense, as a female and also as a Para Athlete. In fact she transformed Para Athletics more than anybody else in the world because of her achievements.

Look at the coverage it gets today. I think it would be miles behind were it not for what Tanni did.

GD: I'm not going to argue with any of that. It's the impact she has had on a country which stands out most for me, on top of those many medals.

BD: What she managed to achieve as a consequence of sporting success has been greater than that of anybody else. She's contributed way beyond sport, to the UK as a whole. Laws have been changed because of Tanni. She has to be a contender for number one.

Paolo Radmilovic (Four Olympic golds in water-polo and swimming 1908-20)

BD: He was the first British Olympian to win four gold medals, a feat unrivalled until Sir Steve Redgrave equalled and then beat it in Sydney 2002.

It's interesting that a photo of him diving into Roath Park lake was used for a roadshow launch for London 2012, demonstrating the history of the Olympics.

I guess that shows the longevity and importance of his achievements. But the truth is it's hard to judge this. He might have been the best player in the water-polo team, but we just don't know.

PR: On paper his CV is astonishing and he has to be on the list because of the sheer number of golds, but we have no context so it's hard to put him in first place.

LM: The Olympics is totally different today compared to back then, but holding that record of four golds until Sir Steve came on the scene was truly impressive.

Jade Jones (double Olympic taekwondo 57kg champion)

BD: People rave about Jade defending her title in Rio, and rightly so, but I think the first win in London had even greater impact.

I was driving up the M4, listening to the radio, Nick Mullins doing the commentary. When he said 'a teenage kicking sensation from north Wales is the Olympic champion' I just thought to myself, 'Wow, that's massive.'

This troubled teenager, who came from a council estate in Flint, had just won gold. The commentator's line summed it up for me. Little Jade, from north Wales, had conquered the world stage. Wonderful. And I will tell you something else. She will win it again.

After a Championship we ask our athletes 'What's your plan next?' It's so hard to think four years ahead - get up at 5am every day for training, be prepared to go again, commit yourself to it once more.

Some understandably don't want to. Jade's young enough to. She'll have have three Olympic golds come Tokyo, possibly four by the time of Paris. I can't see anybody else matching that.

PR: It's a minority sport and doesn't tick the box like Euro 2016 of capturing a nation, but to have won two Olympic golds at her age is pheonomenal. Eight years of preparation to make sure she is at her peak at just the right time.

LM: The mental toughness she has shown over that time belies her age. Not many teenagers are able to dovetail that with the physical aspect required for taekwondo.



Steve Jones (world marathon record, Chicago 1984)

GD: I think this has to be included on any list because it is a sporting memory that has stayed with me. He went to Chicago and ran 2:08:05, a world record and his British record lasted fully 33 years until Mo Farah beat it in London in 2018.

Again, those tick boxes of uniqueness of feat and lasting the test of time.

PR: He also did it at a time when there was a lot less known about endurance training and nutrition. Sometimes it's frightening to think what some of these athletes could achieve today, with sports science and knowledge of nutrition. Same with Gareth Edwards - just imagine how good a player he would be with today's support?

LM: It's one heck of an achievement for me, almost on a par with Geraint Thomas - only Steve had to do it on his own. Get out there and run as fast as you can - on your own. These days athletes are cosseted a little bit, no problems with that, but back then Steve had to do it by himself.

And finally.... Geraint Thomas (Tour de France winner)

(Image: AP Photo/Christophe Ena)

GD: We can judge Geraint on two things - scale of achievement and impact he has had upon a Welsh nation. He ticks the two boxes big time.

Having driven a car up those French mountains, and as somebody who struggled with Caerphilly mountain in the Velothon, trust me I understand just how good a cyclist Geraint must be. He is the best in the world, this is almost the culmination of his career coming together after previous success on the track.

I was in the United States while this was going on and I can tell you they were gripped out there, cycling is becoming big in America. It's a global sport these days.

PR: I've spent the past two weeks getting massively over-excited about this and how to cover it in the pages of our titles. The more I think about it, the more I struggle to think beyond it as Welsh sport's greatest achievement.

The iconic Tour de France - 10 years ago it was unthinkable we'd have a British winner. Suddenly we've had Bradley Wiggins, Chris Froome... and a Welsh winner in Geraint Thomas.

A Welsh cycling club, Maindy Flyers, has a double-page spread in L'Equipe and was name-checked on the Champs Elysee.

The scale of the achievement isn't just the gruelling stages. It's the prospect of a career-ending crash around every corner, the diets, the altitude camps. He's conquered each of those. Thomas always had a terrific track record, but this was a bit like stepping up from 400m to win the marathon.

I've tried to explain this to non-cycling fans.

BD: It is indeed incredible. You need team support to win the Tour, but Geraint didn't have that at the beginning. On the contrary, he was supporting others in the team and it was only through his own performances that the team was supporting him by the end.

The Tour needed this win. Ideally they wanted a French winner, but this was the next best thing for them.

I remember Bradley Wiggins suddenly turning to Geraint after one of his gold medal performances and saying, 'And this man can do anything on a bike. He's the best'. I thought 'wow', that's some statement.

The reason I think the country has bought into Geraint is because he has a provenance. Wiggins is an amazing cyclist but can be dour, doesn't really care what people think of him.

Froome has no Maindy Flyers to put on the back of his jersey. Geraint has got everything.

The negative is your point saying you have to explain things to non-cyclists. I'm thinking if you have to explain it, how big an impact in reality will it really have on the general public?

LM: I agree with everything. The achievement speaks for itself, the positives are fairly obvious.

But like Brian I'm not convinced this will have the impact on a nation people suggest. I don't want to sound negative because I've had my fingers burned by this before.

But I don't feel our governing bodies are strong enough to capitalise on this, our club structure is not strong enough, our facility structure certainly isn't capable of dealing with demand.

The sporting infrastructure across Britain for some sports is just not good enough. I hate it when I hear youngsters are being turned away because we don't have facilities.

That makes me a little uneasy. I don't like the legacy talk because I'm not convinced it will happen.

But in terms of what he has done, Geraint has been absolutely phenomenal. His achievement has to be in the mix for number one.

THE SHORT-LISTS OF THREE (our experts make their top-three choices)

Gareth Davies (Lynn Davies, Wales Rugby Team 1970s, Tanni Grey-Thompson)

After this fantastic debate, I've come to the conclusion is has to be these three. Lynn, for his unique achievement, the 1970s side for their lasting success.

And Tanni because of her prolonged time at the top and the great impact she's had with pioneering work done for Paralympic sport.

Brian Davies (Lynn Davies, Tanni Grey-Thompson, Geraint Thomas)

I don't disagree with much of what Gareth says there. I too have Lynn, but much as I'd love to choose the '70s rugby team because they are idols of mine I've plumped for Tanni because of how she affected society and the consequences.

Where I differ is by choosing Geraint. I don't think anybody truly believed a Welsh person could win the Tour de France. He has shaken me in my belief of what Wales can be.

Laura McAllister (Joe Calzaghe, Nicole Cooke, Geraint Thomas)

I can agree with everything said above, but choose slightly different achievements because of different nuances.

I can't overlook Joe because a 46-0 unbeaten record says everything for me. I've anguished between him and Tanni and Joe just gets it.

Nicole is in because I feel what she achieved against the odds, in defying prejudice, and without a team, to win the Olympics and world title in the same year was in its own way as good as Geraint's achievement. He gets in because the Tour de France is such an iconic event and so hard to win.

Paul Rowland (Geraint Thomas, Nicole Cooke, Tanni Grey-Thompson - and a little bit of Joe Calzaghe!)

This is so hard. I started putting stars against names to bring the short-list down to three... and ended up with six, which I eventually permed to four!

There are three who simply have to be in there. Geraint because a Welsh person winning the Tour de France is such a remarkable thing to say.

Nicole because she succeeded despite having to fight against the barriers that weren't there in men's cycling.

Tanni was a pioneer of female sport and Paralympic sport. So put the two together and it's a must. You could not have asked for her to carry the flag any better.

However, I also struggle to leave out Calzaghe. 46-0 in a global sport like boxing and carrying a Welsh flag in the ring with him. Technically I've named three.. but wanted four.

HOW THE VOTES WENT

Geraint Thomas 3, Tanni Grey-Thompson 3, Lynn Davies 2, Nicole Cooke 2, Joe Calzaghe 1, Wales Rugby Team 1970s 1.