Jim Ryan – he does a great impression of Brian Cox

GameCentral talks with Sony’s European boss about having enough PS4s to go around, countering Microsoft’s FIFA 14 deal, and The Last Guardian.

The first time we met Jim Ryan was at the PlayStation 4 unveiling in February, the second time was the morning after Sony’s euphoric E3 media briefing. Both times we’ve been impressed by his good humour and his willingness to engage with our questions and tackle them head-on, rather than just sideline them with marketing blather.

But while Ryan had every reason to be upbeat at E3 the last two months or so have seen Microsoft grab every headline. And as embarrassing as the string of U-turns have been they’ve clearly worked in terms of creating a version of the Xbox One that’s much more palatable to ordinary gamers. So as president and CEO of Sony Computer Entertainment Europe we asked him whether he was worried the PlayStation 4 was losing ground and how it could keep its positive momentum…




Compare and contrast this interview against our one with Microsoft’s Phil Harrison

GC: So I was at the Microsoft event, where I saw the two Jims.

JR: Phils.

GC: Phils, that was it. I’m not very good with names. Or accents. Quite a lot of things actually.

JR: [laughs]

GC: Do you worry that you’re falling behind now? You obviously won E3, I think anyone would admit that, but a lot has changed since then. You may have forced these changes on Microsoft but they are clearly working in making the Xbox One more attractive to gamers. So do you worry that there’s now less to distinguish the two consoles and that they’re actually now in danger of overtaking you – because as we discussed last time I think they have the better line-up of games at the moment.

JR: And that’s your opinion.

GC: That’s my opinion, but I don’t think it’s a particularly controversial one. Although I will say there’s still not much in it.

JR: Well, there’s still a hundred euros in it. Or whatever the sterling equivalent is – £80. So there’s still that. Do I worry that we’ve fallen behind…?

GC: I’m not suggesting you’ve done anything wrong. But they have caught up, it must seem that way to you.

JR: They’ve clearly, and I don’t want to impute too much to anybody else’s behaviour – it’s improper – but they obviously concluded that they had made some decisions that they needed to change and they did that. I think that it has resulted in there continuing to be some confusion round exactly what they stand for now. And I think there continues to be no ambiguity about what we stand for.

And yes, they have made a number of decisions which reverse some decisions that they previously made. And they feel they have to add FIFA 14 to their pre-orders, but every metric we look at we’re still doing fine. Whether its purchase intent, whether it’s actual pre-orders…

GC: You’ve said PlayStation 4 pre-orders are over 1 million now, but do you know roughly what they’re at? I don’t know if you have access to that sort of information?

JR: We don’t actually. We obviously talk to retailers, who quite properly will not share precise numbers with us but who are typically prepared to give an indication of how the land lies. And it varies from retailer to retailer and it varies from country to country, but I’m not hearin’ of too many places at all – at all – where they’re ahead of us.



GC: Are you considering offering a direct equivalent or response to the FIFA 14 deal?

JR: No.

GC: You’re not tempted to go and make a deal with some other game?

JR: Why should we do that? Our problem is gonna be matching supply to demand. It’s perfectly rational when a platform holder, or indeed a publisher, runs a pre-order campaign to engage in promotional behaviour to dial it up if you feel it’s not where you need it to be. That’s a rational thing for any businessman to do. We’re perfectly happy with where our pre-order are.

Our problem… we’ve actually had to turn off the day one pre-orders and now we’re onto day two. So why would we go out and add something? Giving away stuff on day one of a new platform launch, in my mind it’s kind of odd.

PlayStation 4 – will there be enough to go around?

GC: How much of an issue is stock going to be? There seem to be conflicting rumours about both consoles being in danger of running out early.

JR: I didn’t say we were going to run out of stock.

GC: No, sure. But that’s what I’m asking. I’ve no idea what the situation is, given the various rumours.

JR: And I don’t know either, is the truthful answer. We’re just getting going with the factory production, the curve is like that [mimes a graph with exponential growth – GC]. Obviously that’s not going to come through on your recording.


GC: I shall indicate the movement of your finger.

JR: His Dundee finger. [laughs] We don’t yet know the shape of that curve and it’s only when we start to be able to triangulate as we go up it that you get a sense of it. And we don’t have those data points yet.

GC: Are you concerned that it’s going to be a serious problem?

JR: No, and it’s going to be driven by demand being greater than we thought rather than inadequacy of supply. If there is a problem, we don’t know that there is a problem – and please don’t impute from any of this that we think there’s a problem, we just don’t know.

GC: Your announcement about offering discounts from the PlayStation 3 to the PlayStation 4 version of a game was very vague. You could tell the audience thought you were going to say they were free, and then when you didn’t give any kind of figure it became very unclear what kind of deal it was. [This was before Activision revealed the upgrade cost for Call Of Duty: Ghosts is £10 – GC]

JR: Okay, a couple of points on that and I think that’s a fair issue to raise. What we are doing as platform holder is providing the facility, the framework, for publishers to do this. So the publishers that were listed – EA, Activision, Warner Bros., and Ubisoft – they then have to make the decision of how they want to do this.


GC: OK, so it could be different for each one?

JR: It probably will be different. Now, if you’re gonna do this – and there’s a certain amount of, both from their side and our side – it’s not worth doing for a pound or two.

GC: Exactly, if it’s just 10 per cent or something it’s pointless.

JR: No, no. I don’t think it’s that sort of thing at all. I think Andy [House, SCEE boss – GC] used the word ‘significant’ yesterday and again I don’t wanna be quoted on numbers but the word ‘significant’ was put in there very deliberately.

GC: Do you think it would always be over 50 per cent, say?

JR: Again, it’s the publishers’ decision but I wouldn’t be surprised if that happened. If the discount was more than 50 per cent. Yes, I wouldn’t be surprised.

GC: After the Microsoft event I went to EA’s media briefing, and it was clear the two were working very closely together. EA also seemed very keen on the phrase ‘taking it to the next level’.

JR: The next level?

GC: Yeah, they’re taking all their games to the next level.

JR: What does that mean though?

GC: I have no idea. They just kept saying it.

JR: [laughs]

GC: But the other thing they kept saying is ‘Only on Xbox’. And that’s a phrase I’ve heard a lot today. Is there a general Sony policy on exclusives that’s stopping you making some of these deals?

JR: No, there isn’t any particular policy. I think it’s common knowledge that EA and Microsoft are partnering. But equally…

GC: It wasn’t just EA though, they were the most prominent today but there were other announcements of exclusive games or content from other publishers.

JR: And we have those too. But all of those EA games – FIFA and Battlefield and Need For Speed – they will be on PS4.

GC: How do these exclusivity deals work? Does the console manufacturer go to a publisher and say, ‘We’d like a special deal for game X, Y, and Z’? Or do publishers shop around deals they’d like to make? And if they are doing that, are you saying no to them at that point?

JR: These kinds of discussions are on-going and very iterative. So it’s not like anything comes out of the blue. The dialogue is taking place… certainly on a monthly basis, sometimes on a weekly basis.

GC: I’m just interested in whether you’re purposefully saying no to them either because you don’t want to spend the money or from some other matter of principle?

JR: No, and you know we’ve carefully selected titles where we feel it’s appropriate to partner with a third party. So Activision, yes, are doing stuff on Call Of Duty with Microsoft. However, we are partnering with Activision on Destiny. And you know Destiny is a new IP from Bungie and there’s gonna be stuff that is exclusive to the PlayStation SKU for a window of time and there’s gonna be a lot of PlayStation-branded marketing collateral and there’s gonna be PlayStation hardware bundles.

So… Destiny isn’t a launch title but it’s pretty much an exact offset to what Activision is doing with Microsoft and I would argue that as new IP coming from Bungie I would rather be in a position of having a long term relationship with Activision on Destiny than on Call Of Duty, which has obviously been around for a very long time.

And equally on Ubisoft… Destiny is new IP on this gen, as is Watch Dogs. We feel it’s preferable, if possible, to tie these sorts of deals in with stuff that’s new and a bit fresh.

GC: So you don’t see it as Microsoft having more exclusive deals? It’s just they have more with the games that are out at the moment?

JR: Yes, in terms of third party tie-ups I don’t think we do necessarily have less than them.

A more valuable exclusive deal than Call Of Duty?

GC: What do you think are the major flaws of the PlayStation 4 as it stands now, in the eyes of the consumer? Not the hardware alone but the overall package? What do you think is stopping people from making that pre-order?

JR: [big intake of breath]

GC: It’s like a job interview question isn’t it?

JR: [deep in thought] It really is.

GC: What’s your greatest weakness?

JR: …

GC: [whispers] Kryptonite.

JR: [laughs] Will you shut up! [laughs] I’m thinking about the very serious question you’ve asked me…! I think given what I’ve said about the difficulty that we’re likely to encounter is supply being able to keep up with demand…

GC: But see that is a very interview type answer. And it’s… when everyone reads that question I’m pretty sure they’re not going to think of that as an answer.

JR: But if you’d let me finish… you’re just like my wife!

All: [laughs]

JR: She says, ‘You speak too slow, it’s boring’.

GC: [laughs] You speak perfectly normally, but I’ve only got 20 minutes here.

JR: [laughs] But seriously, the thing that I worry about is an inadequacy of supply to meet demand.

GC: Okay, but I would say… and in fact it’s not even me saying it because I get lots of letters from readers and it’s often in the form: ‘I really want to get a PS4, I’m not happy with the way Microsoft have been carrying on, but I just don’t like the DualShock controller’. That to them is the sticking point. And that combined with the exclusive games so far announced is what I’d say are the PS4’s biggest problems at the moment. And I know you’re going to say the controller is improved but it’s the basic layout that people seem to be unhappy with.

JR: Well, it has definitely improved.

GC: It is better, I agree. But it’s the position of the analogue sticks. Luckily I have dainty feminine hands but for those that don’t they’re just poorly placed. I imagine someone at Sony thought they had to keep them there because it’s an iconic piece of design, but I just wonder if you regret that now.

JR: No, no. We don’t regret it.

GC: Okay, well this next question is not specifically a PS4 issue but as I sit and watch these game trailers, I’m frequently overcome with the thought that they really don’t look that different to current gen stuff. If I showed them to non-gamer, or even casual gamer, friends they would not think they were running on a brand new console.

JR: But this happens all the time. So, last time round God Of War II shipped on PS2 at just around the time the PS3 was shipping. And God Of War II on PS2 actually looked better than those PS3 launch games. And I would argue that this time round… and often those screens at these shows don’t do proper justice. If you go and check out the…. you probably already have…

GC: I’ve seen the games, yes.

JR: I would say that there is a step change in-between the really top end PS3 stuff that’s coming now and the launch titles on PS4.

GC: But take something like a static screen, an inventory screen for example. There is currently no way to tell they’re running on a new console, not in terms of resolution or number of colours or anything like that. And that’s never been the case before. Do you not see that as a problem in selling it to the mainstream in particular?

JR: No, no, because as I said it always happens. The change at launch is not that marked. And the other thing to realise is that we’re still three months from launch and those games are all going to get polished, considerably.

Is this the PlayStation 4’s Achilles heel?

GC: Okay, well this issue is specific to the PS4 and it’s that although no one seems to argue that it’s more powerful than the Xbox One I worry that that power is not going to be used in multiformat games. Because it wasn’t with the PS3. I can understand there not being a big difference at launch but are you confident that’s not going to be the norm going forward?

JR: I think you’re correct in pointing out that multiformat games often develop to the lowest common denominator. And that phenomenon has certainly been apparent on the PS3/Xbox 360 gen. I think these big games now are becoming so big that there is a chance… I guess it all comes down to economics at the end of the day. Because multiformat publishers, they’re rational – well in most cases they’re rational…

GC: [laughs]

JR: They’re rational businessmen whose obligation is to behave in the best interest of their shareholders. So to the extent that we can demonstrate that going the extra yard on the PS4 SKU is gonna result in some tangible financial benefit to them they will. If we can’t demonstrate that they won’t.

JR: Oh go on then.

GC: Now I don’t necessarily agree with the underlying premise of this question but I’ll ask it anyway. A lot of your media briefing was focused on indie gaming but looking at some of those games, are they really going to be any kind of positive for a mainstream audience? I mean you can’t advertise them on TV, I don’t know what you do with them. Other than publish them and make people like me happy.

JR: You raise a fair question but if you don’t agree with it, I’m not quite sure where you sit in the logic?

GC: Well, I’m saying I personally am glad you’re doing it. But if I was a businessman maybe I would be telling you to stop wasting your time with these arthouse games that you can’t advertise.

JR: Well, I am and I’m not. [laughs] I guess one way to answer it is to look back at the PS3 and to look at the games that came from Thatgamecompany: flOw, Flower, and Journey. And, you know, they started off as classic indie developers. And I would argue to anybody that those games are platform enhancing. They’ve certainly repaid whatever financial investment we made in them, those boxes are ticked.

But I would argue that those games have achieved breakout, and have really worked and worked well to improve the credibility and overall attractiveness of the PS3 platform. Indeed to the extent that we’re sticking them on a Blu-ray disc and selling them in the stores.

Not all of those other indie games is going to achieve that, and some will just go to establishing a critical mass of credible indie games. But you will get breakout with one or two, and they will do that.

GC: Because you’ve got this volume of indie titles will you be making any special marketing push in order to explain what indie gaming is to the general public?

PR guy [to Ryan]: I’m afraid we’ve run out of time, you’re going to have to answer that in just a couple of words.

GC: I know for a fact the next guy is running late.

JR: He is not, he’s waiting outside! [laughs] Yes, we will obviously find ways to communicate the benefits of these games.

GC: You have specific plans?

JR: Yes, of course.

GC: Just as I’m going…

All: [laughs]

GC: Is Japan getting the PS4 this year? Is it one of the 32 countries you mentioned as part of the November launch?

JR: That will be the subject of a separate announcement.

GC: You haven’t said what the 32 are have you?

JR: Yes.

GC: Oh, and is Japan one of those 32?

PR woman: No.

GC: Oh. So ah… will you-know-what be at the Tokyo Game Show?

JR: What?

GC: You know what.

JR: What are you talking about?

GC: The Last Guardian!

JR: [laughs]

PR woman: That is not the first mention of that today.

JR: [gestures towards clearly-still-on recorder] Come on, you’ve had your time.

GC: [blatantly lying] Oh, is that still on? I didn’t realise.

JR: [laughs]

GC: Is The Last Guardian going to be at the Tokyo Game Show? Do you know or are you just not saying?

JR: [stony silence]

GC: [laughs] Well, anyway. Thanks a lot for your time.

JR: David, it’s always a pleasure. It really is.

GC: Thank you.

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