Show caption Kate Devlin: ‘The idea of having a perfect lover has been around for a long time.’ Composite: Antonio Olmos/Getty Images Robots ‘Would robot sex count as infidelity? Technically no…’ Kate Devlin, computer scientist and sex-tech expert, talks about teledildonics, the possible futures of human relationships and the intersection of AI and sex Nicola Davis @NicolaKSDavis Sat 27 Oct 2018 11.00 EDT Share on Facebook

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Dr Kate Devlin is a computer scientist at Kings College London whose work includes delving into the overlap between sex, intimacy and technology as well as human-computer and human-robot interactions. She has organised two sex-tech hackathons, and has recently written a book about sex robots called Turned On.

The idea of coupling up with a robot seems to have gathered pace in recent years, but sex toys have been around for a while. When did they first crop up? And did they spark the same concern and outrage as the idea of sex robots has unleashed?

No, if we look back at ancient Greece for example we know for sure sex toys were being used, it is depicted in images, it is written about, and was seen as a normal part of sexual behaviour. It changes over time – the Christian church in the west really, really frowned on this, so there was a massive crackdown on anything that didn’t involve missionary position for reproductive purposes. There were a lot of changes depending on the prevailing social mood at the time. But sex toys have been around for hundreds if not thousands of years.

We hear a lot about sex robots, but could tech change the sex lives of perhaps a less niche crowd too?

I have run two sex-tech hackathons that have explored new ways of building technology for intimacy that don’t involve humanoid robots. Teledildonics are smart sex toys that can be connected over the internet and controlled via the internet and those are actually being used, they are being developed – in fact a patent that was blocking development has just been lifted so we probably will see some more.

In looking at the role of tech in sex, have you uncovered new sides of human sexuality?

I think what is interesting is that this stuff has been around for so long and this idea of having a perfect lover has been around for so long, and that just doesn’t change. We are fundamentally drawn towards sex, even though we don’t like talking about it. There is a big fear around technology and technological change. People are scared about the loss of agency, they are scared about being replaced by something else and something mechanical. But the reality is that technology more often brings us closer together than isolates us and that it can actually be quite a good and useful thing.

The current form of sex robots objectifies women. But there’s no evidence of any harm to people from them

Ultimately what will this boil down to: a sexbot under the stairs in every home or some limited, specialised users?

I think that the current form they are in, which is essentially a mechanised sex doll, is pretty niche. I think it will probably stay pretty niche. I think we can form bonds with technology and we can have immersive experiences and we can have intimate experiences without having to go down the humanoid robot route. Because let’s face it, we are terrible at making human-like robots and that is not going to change any time soon.

There’s a Campaign Against Sex Robots who seek to ban them on the grounds that they encourage isolation, objectification of women and so on. Don’t they have a good case?

I agree with them that the current form of sex robots is reductive and objectifies women. It is a reductive stereotype of women and that is not helpful and it contributes again to the damaging body image that we see portrayed in other forms of media. But in terms of harm, no, there is not any evidence of harm to people from these sex dolls or sex robots. In fact the research I’ve done shows that by and large the people who were buying sex dolls were incredibly respectful of the dolls and there was no sign that people were buying them to enact violence on them. Their campaign stems out of a very negative view of sex work, so they are anti-sex work and they see sex robots as a continuation of that so they want to shut that down. However I do agree that the current form is problematic and that is why I advocate moving away from the human-like forms.

AI systems developed by companies such as DeepMind have created new-to-humans strategies for playing computer games or winning board games such as Go. Could AI reinvent how we do sex?

There’s an intersection of AI and sex in terms of things like “deepfake” where people’s faces are being put on to porn videos. It’s one part of AI that does concern me; when people start messing around with video and audio they are literally rewriting things. That is hugely problematic. And it is something that is pretty easily done these days.

Do you think the public (and figures such as Stephen Hawking and Elon Musk) have been too alarmist about AI?

Yes. The threat right now is not of AI taking over the world and destroying us all. The threat right now is the everyday part of it, which is the mass accumulation of data, the lack of privacy and that there isn’t any tight control or ethics. People just aren’t aware of the risk and the bias in the system that can lead to a very unequal society.

Does sex with a robot constitute infidelity?

Technically no. If you want to go purely on divorce law then I suppose you could say that was some kind of unreasonable behaviour but you certainly couldn’t divorce on the grounds of adultery, first of all because it is just not a person. Is it kind of cheating? That is between you and your partner. That is a case-by-case basis for everyone in their own relationships. There are some people who aren’t happy with the use of sex toys in the relationship, there are others who feel it is a very positive thing so I think that all depends on the person and their relationship.