Annie Laurie Gaylor

Freedom From Religion Foundation co-president Annie Laurie Gaylor works on her weekly radio show Jan. 25, 2007, in Fitchburg, Wis. Gaylor has helped transform the Madison-based Freedom From Religion Foundation from obscurity into the nation's largest group of atheists and agnostics, with a fast-rising membership and increasing legal clout.

(Morry Gash/AP Photo)

Annie Laurie Gaylor has spent decades pushing for greater separation of church and state -- and that, she said, involves removing religious dogma from law-making.

In honor of Gaylor's upcoming talk in Portland, titled "The Battle of Church and State and Its Impact on Women," we spoke with the activist about relevant challenges facing women today and how she approaches conversations with people of faith.

Gaylor's responses have been edited for brevity and clarity.

How does the separation of church and state affect women?

The women's movement has really been the battle of women to liberate themselves from religious dogma. The earliest feminists in our country tended to be atheists, agnostics or non-conforming Christians -- heretics within their religion. It was a sin to speak out. It was sinful for them to wear bloomers. Elizabeth Cady Stanton said, 'The Bible was hurled at us from every side.'

In the 19th century it was really the religious dogma that was the principal stumbling block for women's emancipation. Fast-forward to today, who are the people trying to undo Roe vs. Wade and contraception rights? Organized religion.

Annie Laurie Gaylor

What are the big ways you think the government has gotten separation of church and state wrong recently?

The Hobby Lobby ruling of last year has opened the door to discrimination in the name of religious liberty. That ruling took our country back half a century as far as contraception rights. We're just starting to see the fallout from the Hobby Lobby ruling.

The fight over the Religious Freedom Restoration Act that we saw at the state level in Indiana is another. RFRA is like a super statute. It's like amending the First Amendment without going through the amendment process. It's saying that if you're religious, the laws don't apply to you.

What's the biggest challenge for women right now when it comes to the separation of church and state?

The constant reproductive war against women has not let up. It's bill after bill after bill either chipping away at contraceptive rights or abortions. This is a constant fight to enshrine religious dogma in the law.

It is a religious notion that when you have fertilization, you have ensoulment.

How do you respond to those who are concerned about being forced to affirm or provide services for an act they don't condone?

A pastor in a church does not need to perform a wedding he doesn't want to. There's nothing in any of these laws or court rulings that would say that. If that were true, their argument would have some validity. But a gay couple comes in to order a cake and you say you're not willing to serve them? This is a violate of their fundamental civil rights.

What if an atheist needed insulin and the pharmacist said, 'I'm not going to serve you because I don't like that you're an atheist?' Or if no grocery store would allow you to buy food? Or if you couldn't fill up your car with gas? When that bakery says, 'I don't want to make a cake for you,' that is the precedent they're setting: 'I don't have to serve you based on who you are as a class.'

If you are a place of public service, you must abide by the laws.

How do you approach a conversation about this with people of faith?

We did a historic, sort of notorious, ad in The New York Times saying it's time to quit the Catholic Church. It was an open letter to more liberal nominal Catholics. That was an overture we made trying to get liberal religionists to think, 'Where should your allegiance be: with Catholic clerics or with women?'

It should be live and let live in our culture. They have a right to their views, but they can understand that it shouldn't be enshrined in our secular law. If they think taking a birth control pill is the same as abortion, they shouldn't take a birth control pill. But should they outlaw others from taking it? No. If we can agree on that, we can be friends.

Having a secular government protects everybody. It doesn't promote atheism and it doesn't promote Christianity. It's bowing out of these questions.

-- Melissa Binder

mbinder@oregonian.com

503-294-7656

@binderpdx