“You don’t really learn anything,” said Malkovich, who has appeared in more than 100 screen and theatrical productions; was a founding member of the Steppenwolf Theater Company, in Chicago; and is also a vintner and a men’s fashion designer. “You’re comprised of your experiences. And that’s what makes you, or in fact breaks us all in the end.”

His trademark gaptoothed smile spread slowly across his face: “We die and then we’re gone. That’s O.K.”

These are edited excerpts from the conversation.

What did you and Paolo discuss in terms of how your character might be a different type of leader than Jude Law’s?

When we discussed it, mine was going to be a German who had spent a lot of time in England. Then he became an English aristocrat. The punk rock back story came when the decision was made to make him English. And then we communicated about what I thought was important or we could use more of or less of, et cetera. But it wasn’t so much the discussion; the role kind of revealed itself in the writing and rewriting.

Of course with Paolo, most things are revealed when you see what the camera does. His way of putting people in a geography — in a room or outdoors, at a time of day — pretty much tells you what to do. The rituals, the secrets, the symbolism of the church: That’s a very hard kind of nut to crack with words.

Did putting on the papal vestments prompt something more in terms of connecting to that character?

Yeah, sure. Because the church just fits into all those S’s: symbolism, spirituality, sacredness, secrets. It satisfies a longing that I think naturally exists in people. How do we live? Why are we here? Was I even here? We kind of forget to ask those questions. That’s what I think the church is for. You know, I’m an atheist, but I get the point. And that’s something I think Paolo, being Italian and being Catholic, just understands on the most profound levels.