michael barbaro

From The New York Times, I’m Michael Barbaro. This is “The Daily.” In two days, in two cities, two mass shootings have left at least 29 people dead. Two stories from one of those shootings. It’s Monday, August 5. Simon, tell me about this Walmart in El Paso, Texas.

simon romero

Well, this Walmart is not only one of the busiest of the more than 4,000 stores that Walmart operates in the United States, but it’s one of the 10 busiest stores anywhere in the country of any retailer.

michael barbaro

Simon Romero is a national correspondent for The Times. I reached him in El Paso.

simon romero

It’s located just minutes from the border with Mexico, so that means that it receives a great deal of foot traffic from people who are crossing the bridge from Ciudad Juárez into El Paso. It really caters to the predominantly Hispanic population in El Paso and, of course, the shoppers who are coming from the other side. There are Mexican soccer jerseys for sale, for instance. Almost the entire staff at the Walmart is bilingual. The pharmacy staff there are experts in pharmaceutical language in Spanish, in all the terminology that they need. So it’s really a well-known location in El Paso. And this was the store that the shooter walked into on Saturday morning.

robert gomez My name is Sgt. Robert Gomez. I’m the public information officer with the El Paso Police Department. Like we said earlier, we are going to be giving you briefs throughout the day to give you information as it develops. The estimates of the shoppers at the Walmart were between 1,000 and 3,000, with 100 employees present. It is back to school, and the Walmart was at capacity when the shootings occurred.

simon romero

Families from both sides of the border, from both Ciudad Juárez and El Paso, were in there especially to buy school supplies for the upcoming school year, which is starting on both sides of the border.

robert gomez As of right now, like I confirmed earlier, we do have one person in custody. I can confirm that it is a white male in his 20s. I don’t have any other information on that, but that’s the information we have right now.

simon romero

The shooter ended up killing at least 20 people inside the store and wounding dozens and dozens of others. The youngest victim that we know of is a 10-year-old girl who is a Mexican citizen who was wounded and who is now recovering in a hospital in El Paso, according to Mexican authorities.

robert gomez That’s about all the information I have right now, but I will take any questions. speaker Where was the shooter apprehended? robert gomez I don’t have the location of where the shooter —

michael barbaro

Simon, what is the significance of the shooter choosing that Walmart in that location?

simon romero

Well, people throughout Texas have commented since this atrocity unfolded that the shooter could have chosen a Walmart close to home. He could have done this in the suburbs of Dallas or Fort Worth. He could have driven elsewhere to a place in South Texas to carry out this attack. But he didn’t do that. He chose to drive all the way across the state of Texas to El Paso, in the far west region of the state. And I think the choice is really telling, because this is a city that has been at the epicenter of the whole debate over immigration in the United States lately.

archived recording The El Paso County medical examiner’s office released its report Friday in the death of 7-year-old Jakelin. Jakelin was one of two children to die in Border Patrol custody.

simon romero

It’s a place where migrant children have died while in federal custody.

archived recording They found about 250 babies, children and teenagers without adequate food, water and sanitation.

simon romero

Just on the outskirts of El Paso, there is a Border Patrol facility that has come under intense scrutiny over the treatment of migrant children.

archived recording So this is actually happening just outside of El Paso, in a town called Clint.

simon romero

So it’s no secret to anyone in Texas, really, or anywhere else in the United States that El Paso has a lot of scrutiny cast on it these days. And it’s very telling that he chose not only this Walmart, which is just minutes from the border with Mexico and which is regularly filled with shoppers from both sides of the border, but he chose a Walmart that’s in a city that is predominantly Latino and that, in some ways, exemplifies the fears that many conservatives have in Texas — and not just extremists but mainstream conservatives, as well — over demographic changes in the state and what that means politically in the years to come.

michael barbaro

And what exactly are their fears?

archived recording 1 People are flocking in from California and from New York, and they’re bringing their voting habits with them. archived recording 2 The population of Hispanic Texans is growing nine times faster than the population of white Texans. archived recording 3 Texas is on the verge of becoming the first state in the U.S. with a majority Hispanic population.

simon romero

It’s tied in to, really, this battle for political supremacy in Texas. This is a concern that is voiced among the highest echelons of political power in the state of Texas, whether it’s the governor or the lieutenant governor or members of Congress.

archived recording Well, yeah, we have a demographic problem here in the state of Texas. As everyone knows, you know, in the last 15 years, the amount of economic and population growth that we’ve experienced has been unmatched across anywhere in the country.

simon romero

Republicans kind of see the writing on the wall, and they see shifting demographics meaning more Democratic voters in the future. It really symbolizes where Texas is heading, in some respects. You know, it’s not only a heavily Latino city, it’s also a Democratic bastion. This is the home of Beto O’Rourke, for instance. So they see these changes as portending a big political shift sometime down the road in Texas. And interestingly, that’s a sentiment that was also shared by the shooter in this attack. He expressed that type of thinking in the manifesto that he posted just moments before he carried out the shooting.

michael barbaro

So he specifically refers to these demographic changes, the growth of the Hispanic population in the state?

simon romero

He does. He also uses the term “invasion” to describe what’s been happening demographically in the state. And that’s a term that’s been used by other people in power, not just in Texas but on the national level, to disparage immigrants and migrant families time and again in our ongoing immigration debate. So he’s not someone who suddenly emerged from the extremes of this debate. In some ways, he’s really reflective of the mainstream debate in Texas and the ways in which people are talking about immigration in the state now.

michael barbaro

I found it kind of haunting how political this shooter seems to have understood that his attack would be, even before he carried it out, with everything you just said as the backdrop.

simon romero

He seems to have been very much aware of the political ramifications of carrying out something like this. In his manifesto, for instance, he points out that he has thought this way since before the election of President Trump back in 2016. But really, we have to remember that El Paso has consistently ranked among the safest cities in the United States now for decades. And a lot of people have pointed out to me in conversations over the past couple of days that this is a city that has been at the forefront of the debate over border security. And yet, in a way, it’s beyond ironic that the threat — in this case, the shooter — didn’t come from outside the country. He didn’t scale a wall. He came from, really, from the heart of Texas and drove all the way across Texas to carry out this attack.

michael barbaro

And he wasn’t an immigrant. He was a white American opposed to migrants coming across the border.

simon romero

That’s right. And that’s something that has really shaken people up in El Paso. This is someone who really could have been a neighbor to many people in this city or a neighbor to many people in the state of Texas. He is someone that’s not going to be detected by the Border Patrol or by ICE. And you know, no wall is going to stop an assailant like this, an attacker like this. So many people are asking what can be done to prevent this type of threat from materializing again. They are asking whether it’s safe to go into their favorite restaurant, whether it’s safe to go into their favorite stores and go shopping. And they’re wondering if they’re going to be targeted because of the language that they’re speaking or because of the color of their skin. And that’s something that has people very troubled right now.

michael barbaro

Simon, thank you very much.

simon romero

Thank you, Michael.

michael barbaro

We’ll be right back.

[phone rings]

jennifer medina

Hi. This is Jenny.

michael barbaro

Hey, Jenny. It’s Michael.

jennifer medina

Hey, Michael.

michael barbaro

Jenny, can you tell me about this thing that happened to you this weekend in El Paso?

jennifer medina

So Saturday, there was a presidential forum with more than a dozen — maybe even two dozen — of the presidential candidates in Las Vegas, Nevada.

michael barbaro

Jenny Medina is covering the 2020 presidential campaign.

jennifer medina

It was a gathering of hundreds of union members. And all the candidates were there to try to get the endorsement of this union. And it was around lunchtime.

archived recording All right, folks. It’s almost lunchtime. A couple more candidates. Coming next, Beto O’Rourke.

jennifer medina

And then, Beto O’Rourke came to the stage to speak.

archived recording (beto o'rourke) Hey. archived recording Hi. archived recording (beto o'rourke) Morning. archived recording Pleasure. archived recording (beto o'rourke) Thanks for having me out. Buenos días. archived recording Buenos días! Buenos días! archived recording (beto o'rourke) I, uh, I’ve got to share something with you that I just learned on my way out here to see you. In my hometown of El Paso, Texas, there is right now an active shooter, or shooters, at the Cielo Vista Mall. And we heard some initial reports of a very high number of people who have been injured right now. And so I just — you know, I’m thinking about El Paso. I want you to be thinking about El Paso, as well, and just that, you know, any illusion that we had that progress is inevitable or that the change that we need is going to come of its own accord shattered in moments like these.

jennifer medina

And this is his district in his hometown. This is, you know, where he’s spent all of his professional career. And it’s pretty hard to overstate how tied his identity is to El Paso.

archived recording (beto o'rourke) And so I just wanted to tell you I’m grateful to be here with you. And to the people of El Paso, any of you who are here today or who are out there right now, we are thinking about you, and we want to make this better going forward. Thank you, all.

jennifer medina

So because I’m on the presidential campaign and covering him, I knew pretty instantly that I would be coming to El Paso. So I got on a flight to El Paso and then landed here. And there were, around the area where this happened, in the shopping center where this happened, there were, of course, TV trucks from every TV station you could probably think of or news outlet you could think of. And one reporter asked very directly —

archived recording How far do you blame Donald Trump and his anti-immigrant rhetoric for the shooting here? archived recording (beto o'rourke) You see a president who has been warning about the threats of caravans and asylum seekers who he’s described as “animals” and “an infestation.” We cannot act as though this were just some kind of natural disaster or a matter of course for this country or the new normal for the United States. There is a very real cause to this. And President Trump is part of that, but he exists in a racist environment that is being fueled by Fox News, by those who on the internet traffic in these conspiracy theories.

jennifer medina

So after that, he was approached by a couple. And the father started to speak with him for quite a while. And mostly, he was just listening. The father was doing the talking. And I didn’t know who the father was. And after they were done speaking, I just asked, you know, could you tell me your name, sir?

manuel oliver My name is Manuel Oliver. My wife, Patricia. jennifer medina And how old are you both? patricia oliver I’m 52, and he’s 51. manuel oliver I’m younger, yeah. I was talking about you.

jennifer medina

And I assumed that they were from El Paso.

jennifer medina Are you from El Paso? patricia oliver No. We are from Parkland. We lost our Joaquin in the Parkland shooting. And we were —

jennifer medina

But it turns out they’re from Parkland. And their son, Joaquin, had been killed in that shooting.

patricia oliver And you know what? We were waiting for Joaquin’s — today’s birthday, his 19th birthday today. And I have to deal with this again. And we’re trying, you know — and I’m — I’m telling you this because that’s why we came here, really. The purpose to be here for Joaquin’s birthday is we want to do something very remarkable, very important. And we want to do something with kids because Joaquin was very — I don’t know, he was very sweet with the kids. And we decided to come here and visit all the detention centers when this happened.

jennifer medina

And they had come to El Paso because today is his 19th birthday. As a part of their trip here, they wanted to go into Juárez to talk with the migrants there who are living in shelters and being helped there.

patricia oliver And we were, yesterday, giving support to the families, migrants, that are in Juárez, Mexico, when we heard that something was going on. And we didn’t know what was going on. Because everybody was texting me, O.K., are you O.K.? Are you O.K.? Are you O.K.? Of what? There is a shooting in El Paso. Can you imagine that?

michael barbaro

So this couple came to El Paso to honor their son, who had been killed in Parkland, in part by visiting a detention center. And while they were there, there was another mass shooting, this one motivated, it seems, by anti-immigrant sentiment.

jennifer medina

That’s right.

michael barbaro

So just kind of an incredible, awful coincidence.

jennifer medina

Awful, awful coincidence.

patricia oliver Well, I think maybe this happened for a reason. Joaquin brought us here for a reason. I believe I am very connected to him, and I believe that he just — he sees better there what’s going on here. So he brought us here because I think that he saw that this is about to happen, and we have to stop this. Joaquin is a very demanding kid. He was always, always — he keeps pushing us, pushing us, pushing us. We are not here by mistake. How can you explain that we were here? And when we heard that something —

jennifer medina

It was impossible for me to talk with her without crying.

michael barbaro

Yeah. It’s clear from this tape that the conversation you’re having with this couple is bringing up a lot of emotions for you.

jennifer medina

So I’ve been a national reporter for a long time now. And I, like all of my colleagues, have had to cover so many of these shootings.

michael barbaro

Mm-hmm.

jennifer medina

And it’s always hard. And sometimes it’s harder than others. And sometimes you somehow figure out a way to keep it together. And this interview, I couldn’t.

patricia oliver — remarkable about him. We are his parents. And as his parents, we decide that we represent him physically here on Earth.

michael barbaro

I also have the sense, Jenny, knowing you, that you must have probably felt you’d covered your last mass shooting when you went to go cover a presidential campaign. And you’re covering a presidential campaign. And all of a sudden, as a result, you’re also now covering another mass shooting.

jennifer medina

The reporter part of me is way too much of a pessimist or a cynic to really have thought that I had covered my last one. I didn’t believe that. But I did think I wouldn’t have to during the campaign. And I certainly didn’t think that in one of my first trips out onto the campaign trail that I’d be flying to cover another mass shooting.

michael barbaro

Jenny, thank you very much.

jennifer medina

Thank you.

patricia oliver If Joaquin brought us here, it was for a reason. And I’m just — to listen that I’m with you. So we need to be out there. This is our problem, not the politicians’ problem. It’s up to us how far we want to go with this.

[music]

michael barbaro

We’ll be right back.

archived recording (richard biehl) So I’m here to provide an update for what you are well aware is an active shooter that occurred in the Oregon District in the early morning hours of today.

michael barbaro

Thirteen hours after the shooting in El Paso, early Sunday morning in Dayton, Ohio, a gunman opened fire in a popular district of bars and nightclubs, killing nine people and injuring 27 others, using a legally acquired high-powered assault rifle.

archived recording (richard biehl) A little bit of a timeline. Today, at 1:05 a.m., officers were patrolling the Oregon District during bar closing time and heard gunfire. They observed a large crowd running away from this gunfire. The officers immediately advanced toward the gunfire and within —

michael barbaro

Among the victims was the gunman’s sister, who had come to the area with him. As of Sunday night, it was unclear whether the shooter had intended to kill her.

archived recording (richard biehl) Threat was neutralized within approximately 30 seconds of the suspect firing his first shots.

michael barbaro

The Times reports that police patrolling the area responded almost immediately, stopping the shooter just before he entered a crowded bar.

archived recording (richard biehl) Any suggestion, at this time, of motive would be irresponsible. We do not have sufficient information to answer the question that everyone wants to know — why?

michael barbaro

During a news conference on Sunday morning, Dayton’s mayor, Nan Whaley, said she was both grateful and saddened by the messages she’d received since the shooting from her fellow mayors.

archived recording (nan whaley) Well, look, as a mayor, this is the day that we all dread happening. And certainly, what’s very sad is — I’ve gotten messages from cities across the country — is that so many of us have gone through it. Today is the 250th mass shooting in America. It’s sad that it’s in the city of Dayton.

michael barbaro