Re: origins of the Debian logo

To: martin f krafft <madduck@debian.org>

Cc: debian developers <debian-devel@lists.debian.org>

Subject: Re: origins of the Debian logo

From: Fabian Fagerholm <fabbe@paniq.net>

Date: Tue, 04 Jan 2005 11:31:58 +0200

Message-id: <[🔎] 1104831119.28072.87.camel@kernel>

In-reply-to: <20041230170139.GA24941@fishbowl>

References: <20041230170139.GA24941@fishbowl>

On Thu, 2004-12-30 at 18:01 +0100, martin f krafft wrote: > In the process of completion of my book (http://debianbook.info), > I have one more question. Unfortunately, I am on a shitty GSM link > right now and the available (crippled) means of research have not > been able to produce an answer to the following: > > Where does the Debian Swirl come from? > What does it try to symbolise? Sorry for the delayed response, but here is a possible answer to the second part of the question from a semiotic perspective. Although the question was what the swirl /tries/ to symbolize, it may be of some interest what it actually might have ended up symbolizing for some people. Fasten seatbelts, please. The mirror image, or inversion, of the above entry [clockwise spiral] symbolizes, like that ideogram, /rotation/. It stands first and foremost for a /counterclockwise rotation/ and is therefore related to [counterclockwise swastika]. This sign appeared in the Euphrates cultures as early as around 2000 B.C., and [counterclockwise spiral] is an Egyptian hieroglyph for /thread/ or /measurement/. [Angled counterclockwise spiral] was used in the earliest Chinese ideography with the probable meaning /return/ or /homecoming/. The Hopi Indians seem to have given it the same meaning. [...] The sign was used by the Phenicians and as a pattern on Bronze Age jewelry found in Scania, Sweden, dating back to about 1300 B.C. Compare with the hieroglyph [straight-line spiral with four angles], representing /Egypt/, i.e., that country that one /returns to/, the /homeland/. There is a similar usage in the English system of hobo signs: a /good house for work/, i.e., a place that is worth returning to when one needs food and money. The sign [somewhat straightened spiral] is found painted on the walls of houses in Tibet [...] and has perhaps the meaning /home/, the place one returns to. It can also signify /whirlpool/ or /eddy/ on nautical charts. (Liungman, Carl G.: Dictionary of Symbols, W. W. Norton & Company Ltd, 1991 (English translation of original from 1974)) Had the spiral been a clockwise spiral, it would have signified "water, power, independent movement and outgoing migration of tribes", as well as "potential power", "potential movement", or, in a more modern setting, "spin drying". Both the clockwise and anticlockwise spirals share some common meanings. The nautical signs mentioned above are one example. In comic strips, they signify "rage, pain and curses" and are "often accompanied by swastikas, exclamation marks, and other symbols of wrath and surprise". Finally, "both [clockwise spiral] and [anticlockwise spiral] have been used by alchemists for /horse dung/." Go figure. All quotes from Liungman (see above) and apologies for the missing pictures, but honestly you do not want me to try these in ASCII... -- Fabian Fagerholm <fabbe@paniq.net>

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