Pitchfork: Ali, when you go into the audience during your shows, what do you hope comes out of those confrontational moments?

Ali Carter: As indie music has moved toward solo artists and electronic musicians, the space between the fans and the band onstage has widened. Being up in people’s faces is a way for me to directly and personally engage with the audience. It’s about getting them outside their comfort zone and delivering the unexpected, because that’s what this band is all about. Some people will be recording the show, and then I’ll get into the face of their iPhone—it’s about creating a moment of intimate intensity with a total stranger.

Alex Lichtenauer: Once those barriers are broken down, the energy changes, and the rest of the set is way more fun. It’s just chaos after that.

While your songs are about very serious subjects, there’s also a degree of weary sarcasm. Does humor play a role in your music?

Al Creedon: It shows levity if you have a little bit of humor. When things are super preachy, it’s a one-sided conversation, and you’re not actually engaging in anything meaningful. You’re just purging all this shit that doesn’t really have any use besides your experience of getting it out.

Carter: I’ve always loved artists who use humor and satire in their lyrics. Someone I’ve idolized is Ari Up of the Slits. Cut was one of the first records I found that really felt like me. Her lyrics are super playful, kind of teetering on the absurd, but also reflective of modern society. I like the combination of being critical but also not being so serious that you come off as didactic.

Is there hope in your music?

Carter: There is absolutely hope in the music, though you might not hear it throughout a good handful of songs. But a song like “Traffic” is certainly very positive, it’s about not waiting around for someone to give you permission to do what you want. If I wanted to be in a band, I just had to fucking do it and not keep holding myself back.

A fan made you pins with your lyric, “Service with a smile?/Eat shit!” Why do you think that line from “Office Rage” resonates so much?

Carter: It’s what people wish they could say to other people, but also what people have to tell themselves when they’re in a service job. In so many different jobs, you have to show up as someone completely different than yourself, and that’s what eating shit is all about. It’s just like fuck. We all have to work to live and survive, and there’s so many ways we adapt to our environment that can feel unnatural and unhealthy. Up until six months ago, I was working full-time at an office job. It felt very strange, I was the resident weirdo. I made the mistake of telling people I play in a band when I first got hired—

Creedon: Which you never, never do.