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I ... a goal even needs job anymore and Dennis Berman the law Street Journal ... with a special guest today Douglas risk off the is a writer I think there ... may be provided to it ... today I mean you can view here ... your ... latest ... column and costliest are you basically pose that ... the piece is that that the notion of the job and our fixation on Johns ... is completely outdated forty twenty for Sentry economy can you explain perhaps why we ... don't even need jobs in the morning and to think about it that way ... well you get it started as a Nokia Pernod mom and everybody else paying jobs jobs jobs but we won his jobs jobs jobs ... and it started to me on an emotional level I was thinking ... does everybody really wanted ... Jerram ... or do people want the stuff that you get because you have a job ... do they want you know food shelter health insurance money many of the stuff we definitely want ... do we want a job isn't on the thing we want ... on ... and I started to look ... at that ... the problem of ... how so many jobs become obsolete then when we come up with a great technology you know and I love technology but ... I love my EZ pass but I feel bad that ... a budget already lectures and don't have jobs and what you do with them of their service to find ... another job of higher value add to write write something better or more but the store to wonder you know as the people in the in the forties and fifties started wondering as we were ... beginning with robots and computers what would happen ... if we actually reached a point where ... we only needed people employed maybe five ten percent of the time ... in order to supply everything that people need to write a few of robots Aetna feels I know it sounds crazy but was us as they ... say there was an up stock ... um how would we deal with that financially what if we did get solar power what if we did get computers that can handle things like that what we could've been alert cancer ... one thing the many Tier I can our bet is that ... the GNP for so I was looking at them from the other side of the team will win the jobs come around every listing on ... the Sri late Middle ages people working making stuff they would do things the use of subsist on the Monday but since living but it started by eleven and twelve century doing really well on the economy was growing faster than ever had before people working three days a week ... they were doing preventive maintenance on their machines higher than we do now ... the problem was the aristocracy was getting Poors that happen as people create value and have peer to peer ... to peer to peer transactional capabilities what happens to ... monarch's and feudal Lords who always depended on having a monopoly they really so baby bro lives in the developed ... charter corporation's charter monopoly they develop central currency ... and that's when the job was invented so instead of making shoes you work for a chartered children instead of doing anything you you've got a job now us but if one looks that of modern economic development a division of labor has largely brought living standards up to levels that was beyond comprehension it forget about eleven plus has a right to think about the ... next twelve to write from that swells to the twentieth century as long as you put aside the exploitation of a brown people around the world and ... and and the fact that we had infinitely expandable resources ... and did very well for colonial European powers for those of us those of us who were sort of ... either either adopted by or a regional ... the white Western European people do really well as we expand that this model ... global but ... I believe we've reached the end of that ... ability to expand certainly in the ability to exclude all different in ... the middle of the Reverend hours and the based on August the ... sheer number of people on the planet so were the reason is the sum total ... resellers said though the number of people in the the ... the hot spot of the West ... diminishes as people in non Western countries realize that they want rights that they want to create ... a one in town I e the sort of in that Hollywood AIA probably one ... of ... as much as anything they want to material goods that are ICP but that was reached the limits of art of doing things at least in the colonial way so we have to look for other ways ... to expand the belief that the water we expanding ... exactly for anti-war markets support ... that expansion and does that expansion support ... genuine standard ... of living stone now we're in a situation where ... we don't have enough jobs ... for people what are the jobs for our The because we need more production ... actually now we know we have more than enough food for the whole world we burn mood in America to keep market value high Hwee of more than enough places to live so much that we are demolishing homes ... in America is ripping down homes because ... if we just let people live in them than the market value would go down ... and were looking for ways to create jobs for people so they can keep can compete for stuff ... that's already in abundance that were burning down so ... that's when I look at it is said that the Maclin ... in a bit simpler simplest ... kind ... I will ... be the mechanism ... of the population not growing at a rate that requires over time ... the ... extra development of ... of noneconomic Bao'an in developed countries the population's decreasing China's population is decreasing I mean did ... it it's not an end if you want to use that as an argument ... you then we at the least should ... it is our goal is to supply goods and services spread to all people then we have to look at what goods and services are are are ... scarcer end and then made markets where those so-so but some in my water so used the term backwards right so let's try to rethink the notion of the job Greg Boyd the embedded ... value and necessity of what a job ... these linguistically represent either a right ... so what what is that ... it's what I've job is to work for a Corporation where ... is not a prediction Ryan great so if we start with value creation how can people create value ... for themselves and one another and how can people exchange back ... then you with a look at the situation say like Lansing Michigan ... where everybody's network is GM crops now the way Obama looks at Lansing Michigan is he thinks ... probably going to get a bank ... to lend money to a Corporation ... to build a plant in Lansing right to employ people the great photo op with Brendan yes now the way I would look at how to we help Lansing is ... how we teach the people there that the ... basic truth that if they have needs ... and they have skills ... and they have the basis for ... pre much eighty percent ninety percent of their economic activity and the only thing wincing can provide for its self is you know I saw some things that you need to get from the global economy but there are plenty of people there who can actually work for one another he does and this is so it's early start whiz ... and massive capital injection to the real problem here is that we have an economy of digital economy where you can build a company with out capital investment to prevent a two thousand dollars in a couple of smart kids and build something and create value ... what is the two worst of all it hurts the bank ... because the bank doesn't have a way of participating in the dying create her anymore right ... so this is more probably about jumper Sony an ideal right so ... that the nation full of ... gentleman farmers and said good shadow narrow eliminator ensures the Imam Hammerite Hadden's known as the Adam Smith sort of Godavari River when has the skills to do as you say in ... that state financing for example you need people who have ... up economic firepower to purchase the skills ... now it's the it's like you're going to be running from the this isn't going as the country was artificially scarcer in western Sydney do it but if you set up ... local currencies to which people can actually ... create value in exchange value then write your name off the treadmill to buy directly to the topic of currencies rather seizing a lot of promise right now in the world currency markets ... the money sloshing to and fro as investors try to find a CPA rather money ... by China is artificially constraining access to its currency ... the US is pretty too many dollars euro zone crisis ... so your theory then for ... a technologically driven ... new set of currencies looks like what ... what I think the main problem is that we're trying to run in twenty for Sentry digital economy on the thirteenth century printing press there are a good ... economic operating system so it was it was a tour with an operating system for colonial expansion and for treating scarce markets ... it's a terrible operating system for ... abundance and it's terrible operating system for local economic activity and so as social media encourages more local and bottom up economic activity ... I think we need other kinds of currencies that can supply the development ... it's can be a simple islet systems and time dollars when it looks like is ... and your community you set up a BBS on on on limited media as an online bulletin boards are commonly D-Day ... for year ten year community ... is a high on joann fix refrigerators I want ... by units of our local currency were hour ... to fix for traders ... you know ... you put up what you what you do and then when you need something you go to that led to his hero who can teach my kid this thing who can babysit ... in the simplest model would be ... babysitting co-op ... where you another people if you have money you have a job ... that you need babysitting ... you can see wanna go out with your wife or even just look at the stars for free and aren't ... you set up a club that twenty people who you know when you trust ... you put in a few hours of babysitting for someone else's kids have earned the currency to them by babysitting the war on the future looks to get the books ... of the world is that ... which you have both a local reality and the long-distance reality ... when the economy was healthy and eleven to thirteen censured the moment where was healthy ... there was more than one school for the job ... around so do the same told that allows you to buy them as Apple to buy Ifo labor from China ... is not the best tool for you to buy ... squash ... from of the grammar but it's just too it is a linear city that nothing is going on in one piece of software and computer is that TV technology amid the debate that back into the ... the the depression and re ... on committees that that's right they did they had paid at the bit deeper script and it was probably not the most ... efficient than it was hard to trust a meeting of reputations are doing so here when I was with online tools right you have far more efficient way of exchanging value munching value MindTree reputation ... of a new ... mindset where you know I can I mean that the smart people are investing in things like Square which is a little thing that you pop into your eyes The New Constructs with credit cards ... not because they think it's can replace Visa for regular transactions that they understand things like Square on the portal to ... these kinds of peer to peer transactions ... that are going to do ... to Central currency would Craigslist did ... to me ... it's just inevitable right ... now ... what happens to the viability of when it's a strange thing if you go on Craigslist ... and you put on an offer continued ... idea moving Manning it better requests for for Labor ... is fascinated says actually it that I've done right is actually fascinating to see ... the offers that come in for the service ... that inevitably drives the price down probably closer to ... the very lowest and most of the very lowest um ... does it does is a system like yours truly ... such a friction lists ... a system that in the end of value is destroyed because there's an excess of labor right now ... what ... you get seriously is if we move into what what ... our columns to super flu economy and ... you know at the point where anybody can get their needs met ... almost instantly by any body else ... I do think a lot of what we currently think of as economic activity ... isn't being relegated to kind of more of a favor and they'll come and go bliss economic activity that's happening ... the lower the GNP go straight GNP goes down ... but if for no longer depending on the GNP as a measure of our prosperity and success ... and it's not really a bad thing right but yet you're right economic activity goes down thinking does worse and you know a lot of up up a lot of ... the the server the economic service industries and Enda Bouzid in some ways you can say the people still in the jobs economy which ... is ... pretty much all this now right ... that back to get back to its back against it over time now ... it does give you much more more of my friends more and more of my students more or the people coming in the ... to toe work with me ... our people court not only um ... not only do not believe they need to or will ever participate in the jobs economy ... don't even wanna go to college ... wanna learn a college curriculum without spending all the money because they know if they kill five thousand dollars in debt ... they have to go into the jobs economy to try to pay back in there is no job or ... an expense and see how the ... inflation and an education continues to well outpaced that of ... of of the overall brand and people are ... are questioning the sorts of things ... it's it's it's really um I think a helpful thing of those reading the back of the of Cleopatra of ten ... how that ... culture was was set up an ancient Alexandria ... as well the Roman ... and increase their estimates freeing him ... up ... it doesn't seem impossible right that that our civilization which seems so secure war and so ... set on these institutions could evolve quite drastically over the next you know fifty years hundred you're doing it doesn't have to be made if it might be drastic but it doesn't have to be violent or upsetting ... I mean if you look at that though ... I think the rate of change that already happened is the big one ... and what's gonna happen now is actually slower ... the big change that happen and it was it's ... it's ... it was the abstraction of American business and our distaste for competence in value creation ... the sort of the Jack Welch Harvard business School model of ... business where if you have a productive entity than what you wanna do ... is sell that her and go up one level of abstraction into becoming more and more like a bank ... and banks themselves are of going with leading banks to become derivatives operations or a derivative of derivatives and so on ... so that everybody got further and further charges in value creation ... value creation and that of being offshore because people understood ... it is understood that under the current model ... Whoever's actually creating value was left holding the bag there the low one in the totem pole ... but because we've so distanced from that ... there's a ... big opportunity now for people to reclaim value creation site devoted to them in a ... tough lefty live on let me ... note let me farm let me do Healthcare let me do education viewers of all of that all of the areas ... where ... people actually make or do something for our kind of left open for people to reclaim ... because corporations and have distanced themselves so prime-time does him justice when metal that we have limited going and that the moment but ... um when you say abstraction right extracted out of the picture so to speak ... of ... that means a corporate stake in media Corporation and its EV and acted in what way that does not serve ... preventing ... depends which mean ... you dad ... it's a media Corporation likelier Chapman and you understand what they wanna do is increase efficiency ... and so they don't they buy up all these radio stations decrease efficiency by having them ... all basically run from one studio out in the middle but I wear it then ... sends the music out ... all these different places in the fate of this is also good because now we can on a deal the spaces of that Mark Wheaton creates on ... better volumes sales of four ... for bigger and bigger record contracts ... on the can create mega stars ... on ... and we can pay people s we don't need DJ everywhere but what happened was ... all of those local station Slosar Local flavor they lost their connection to their communities were stopped listening that Belichick was generic people when on line right and then finally the Guinness Selic and all the great libertarian say Oh don't worry it's on a comeback now ... you know now when the local again what happened was cars moved on the of the structures gotten the people who were professional Afghan radio DJ isn't all that ... their guns he can to rebuild ... on the community numbers aren't enough beds is Ardi been rebuilt many times over on on ... on line ... and in particular you the local is community of of interest each and Verizon to ... someone but with your critique to music ezogabine broadcasts from Poland are also in the last week from a friend a set of go turn on the Syrian Music dot com now because there's a great ... been listening to or ... will this isn't talking about him and we can wrap it up here but ... um ... all the things that that they make of the radical sense and there's a kernel of truth because it does feel like we are of wheat confronting our institutions ... the things that we will trust in our eyes ... um ... but they are ... have to scare the heck of alot of people of ... the feeder they feel right now when the look of the jobless rate in the that that they're politicians and into something ... that don't seem capable of responding to their needs ... um how does one confront ... the fear of of Leon don't know what ... I'm realizing that the thing that actually afraid of ... is their neighbours ... the thing they're afraid of is the people and around town ... there is a guide in my tent John a friend of mine had a restaurant named comfort tiny little restaurant he got ... half the money needed from the bank to expand to another location ... then the economic crisis hit the bank said we can give us a lot ... so he's he's stock now he's help expand the Nikkei go back to spend the money he's got a paid that what happens ... our town ends of investing in his business we gave him the money he needed ... to finish in Division ... into the front it right into the winners in town revenues that ... News Corporation to get ... on the individuals in the town the way we did it was for ... every five hundred dollars you give as an investment a restaurant ... you got like seven hundred dollars ... credit to spend at the restaurant is the Weckel customer loyalty program at that point ... so we all made at twenty thirty forty percent rise on our investment instantly ... he got the money needed cheaper that he can get it from the bank we expanded ... this restaurant we increased our property values has now we get a bigger better restaurant or town where all talking up the restaurants we can't medical evidence ... we already have already which invested in the menu ... and we created relationships and accounting now we've created a model that were not only using ... there but there's ... two people were trading on line businesses basically based in ... creating the software to let people do this for their businesses with a Asta so it shouldn't be scared the fact that that we have to once again turned to each other in order to facilitate comers ... on is another thing on a bad thing at the Darebin be in that category to which the Senate was going on there ... cut of the same the same thing other using dollars as the currency but ... when you can substitute anything one or for the current income rang up okay so of ... you get two books out in PSU view that religion tells the story what is it really was I was a program of the remnants of ... its ... ten commands the digital age we have some provocative things in there too about nothing sleeves or emails which ... I did Tata for now the conversation ... and why think of which ... it is perhaps a bit more of a confrontation to ... the Wall Street Journal readers of that confront some of the basic underlying question asked Journal readers and editors ... how to know where money and where chartered corporations came from ... in order to understand ... on their inability ... to ... to operate effectively in the current environment ... aren't those first off thank you so much for joining us ... I'm Dennis Berman of the last return ...