James asks:

Hi

Heather, I just found a question from ‘samy-baby’ on Scarleteen concerning rape. I’m afraid you appeared all too eager to label the bloke as unsafe and

‘stay well away from him’, given that the girl openly admitted within

the first words of her sentence that she gets her boyfriend

stupid-horny then says "no sex", that’s just cruel, and I doubt many

men would tolerate it. I’ve made it abundantly clear with my girlfriend

that if she makes the effort to turn me into a horn-monster, she should

finish through or I’m usually very pissed off; not to say that I’d go

ahead and have sex with her anyway. All I’m saying is you failed to

advise this girl that if she doesn’t want to have sex, then she

shouldn’t get her boyfriend horny.

Heather replies:

When

a person, behaving in a healthy way, chooses not to tolerate a certain

dynamic in a relationship they dislike or which makes them unhappy,

what they choose to do is set a limit. If that limit is not respected

by a partner, they then terminate the relationship and potentially

contact with that person. If the young woman asking the question had

indeed been cruel to her partner in any way, the appropriate response

from her partner would be to either address that cruelty with her and

come to some agreement on how to be assured it would not happen again,

or for her partner to choose to leave the relationship to end that

cruelty.

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A healthy, humane response to a cruelty is not to be cruel in your

own way back. A healthy, humane response to wanting something from

someone which they do not also want is not forcing them to give it to

you, or making them feel that they are obligated to provide it — or

face your anger — when they do not want to do so.

No one is responsible for "making someone horny." In fact, much of

the time, none of us — not you, not me, not Samy, not your girlfriend

— has any control at all over whether or not someone experiences

sexual desire.

If we could actually have that kind of complete control, a whole

genre of books and magazines for men and women alike which pull in a

bundle in profits every year, all about endless strategies on how to

arouse desire in others, written for masses of people very frustrated

that they do not have that magical ability, would be wiped from

bookstore shelves. And that, my friend, is a LOT of books which would

be missing. It’s silly, for sure, that by now people don’t realize that

even when they want that power, they can rarely have or harness it, and

it’s silly for people to spend untold dollars trying to get that

elusive power, but here you are, among their number.

My telling someone not to "make her boyfriend horny" would be a

really ineffectual and ridiculous thing to say. Not only does any of us

have the vaguest idea how to avoid doing that, given how arbitrary and

random sexual desires among people tend to be, it’s also far beside the

point, and how her boyfriend behaves around her in terms of his sexual

desire is not her responsibility. It’s his. Nothing she can do,

sparing taking his hand and putting it in her pants, makes what his

hand does her responsibility, and none of us — of any gender — are

not the person in complete control of how we choose to behave around

other people.

The fact that young women often feel responsible has an awful lot to

do with the fact that men tell them they’re responsible to deny or

evade their own responsibilities. And it’s very typical, in any kind of

abusive dynamic, sexual or otherwise, for the abuser to blame the

victim routinely in order to refuse accountability. In a physically

abusive relationship, for instance, after a man hits his partner, he

might often say to her, "If you’d only do what I ask you to do, I

wouldn’t have to hit you like this." His partner hears that often

enough, and she starts to believe him. Given it seems like Samy is

expressing a history of parents who have not been healthy when it comes

to sex, she likely thinks a lot of things are in her control which

aren’t, because these kinds of tactics are very common with abusive

people, and she’s probably heard them before. That same kind of belief

despite reason — Samy’s or yours — can also happen through cultural

indoctrination with certain ideas. The idea that women are responsible

for male desire or arousal, however ridiculous — especially since much

of the time, that desire is aroused when women not only don’t intend to

do so, but when arousing it is the last thing we’d want to do — is

pervasive because men feeling entitled to women when they want them,

entitled to sex with women when they want it, and entitled to call all

the shots when it comes to getting what they want is pervasive.

Thankfully, plenty of men are smart enough, strong enough and

compassionate enough — and see sex as mutual pleasure, not

masturbation on someone else — to see the profound error in that way

of thinking and resist that baloney. Thankfully, over the last few

decades, we’ve had more cultural awareness about rape, sexual abuse and

attitudes which enable rape so that even those who once thought that

way — and perhaps still fight feeling that way — are dedicated to not

behave in alignment with those kinds of ideas which harm and devastate

all of us.

Even the way that you’ve said you’ve addressed your girlfriend

speaks to the kind of projection of responsibility and entitlement I’m

talking about. The fact that something she does arouses your desire

does not obligate her to perform a given sexual activity you want or to

bring you to orgasm, or justify you in being angry with her if she does

not share that same desire. The way you’ve summed up Samy’s post is

pretty inaccurate and telling. She did not, in fact, say she makes a

habit of "turning her boyfriend into a horn-monster," then telling him

they can’t have sex. She described one situation in which she felt

responsible for her boyfriend’s sexual desire, but was not interested

in a certain kind of sex he wanted, declined that sex, and he did it to

her anyway, while she continued to decline it, then later rationalized

what he did then and how he has done this to her before, by telling her

what she likes and that she likes this. You appear to be trying very

hard to make this her fault and take the responsibility away from her

partner and other men like him.

I’m not sure what you think went on here, but based on the years I

have spent talking to young men and women alike about sex, usually when

someone says they "made someone horny," they do not mean they came out

in lingerie, gave them a lap dance, told them all the sexual things

they were going to do with them, then turned around and said "Psych!"

(In the event that is what happened, I, in fact, DID address that using

sex as a manipulation is not sound, safe or kind.) Rather, what they

usually mean when they say that is simply that they were around that

person, or doing something like making out with that person or doing

another sexual activity which they both wanted to do, which aroused

their sexual interest.

But it’s pretty easy to show up the double standard when it comes to

the idea that any of us creates desire and are obligated to meet it:

when you say this, you don’t mean this applied to any of us. You likely

mean it about women and men, and not in a vice-versa kind of way. If I,

as a woman, am around a man who arouses my sexual interest and he does

not feel the same interest for me, or wish to indulge my interest

sexually, do I then have the right, somehow, to force my hand into his pants?

To continue doing something to him sexually while he is telling me no?

If you, as man, aroused another man’s sexual interest in some way,

would he then have the right to do sexual things to you against your

will? Really? To be angry with you when you refused to do whatever he

wanted?

If you and I were sexual partners, and you felt sexually finished

after one or two activities, but I didn’t feel at all done and forced

you to give — or insisted on you giving — me every kind of sex I

wanted for another couple of hours, even some you didn’t want or like,

even if you no longer found me attractive but creepy as hell, even when

you felt done and did not want to anymore, even if it was physically

painful because you were not aroused or interested, with no regard for

your boundaries or what you wanted, that would be okay with you? Would

that be understandable: as in, you’d understand why I did that to you

and feel that I had every right to treat you that way? If so, I gotta

tell you to adjust your thinking, because if anyone ever does that to

you, for the sake of your own well-being, mental health and safety, I

hope you do not try and justify or enable that kind of abuse.

Did you see how I bolded that bit about you not wanting or

liking something sexual? I did that because this can often the The

Great Brain Stopper for some men when it comes to these issues. Some

men feel strongly that there is no kind of sex they wouldn’t want or

like given the opportunity. Now, that’s likely not true: most of those

guys just haven’t yet had an experience where that’s happened yet. A

lot of men have a tough time understanding that when a partner is

raping you, forcing sex on you you don’t want, or exerting their power

over you abusively, even if they were attractive to you before, they

very quickly are not usually attractive any more: they become

repulsive. Some men will also state that they want sex so much that

even sex by force, with someone they aren’t attracted to, would be

alright by them. Gotta call bullshit on that one, too, but let’s

pretend it IS true that there is no kind of sex, with anyone, in any

dynamic, which wouldn’t be something you wanted. Even if that’s so?

That’s NOT so for most people and not so for most women. So, in trying

to understand this, you have to make a point of doing your level best

to envision scenarios in which what was going on was not something you

would want, where what was being suggested or happening was acutely,

intensely, something you did not want to do.

You say you wouldn’t force your girlfriend to have sex with you if

you got turned on, but you would be pissed off, and have made clear to

her that you fully expect that when you feel that desire around her she

should know she’s expected to satiate you to your satisfaction. What if

we were talking about you here? If you "made" your girlfriend horny,

and she wants a kind of sex to feel satisfied you don’t want — let’s

say, forcing her fingers into your anus, or her genitals unto your face

— do you think it would be reasonable for her to be pissed off at you?

Do you feel like it would be reasonable for you to expect that if you

aroused her desire in any way, including intentionally, that her

fingers were going into your bum because she wants to do that, even

when you don’t? If you answered yes to either of those questions, I

have to call your bluff, since it’d be pretty unlikely you did. And

even if you did, I’d have to tell you that whether we’re talking about

men or women, that’s just not a healthy sexual dynamic based in mutual

pleasure and care.

Agreeing to make out or agreeing to be near someone is not an

agreement to have any or every kind of sex that person might want, or

even to continue the agreed-upon activity past the point of wanting to

do so. Engaging in one sexual activity with a partner never obligates

anyone to engage in any or all of them, until the other person feels

their wants are met — in conflict with the wants of the other — nor

negates the validity of someone’s no. The partner who wants sex is

never the one whose needs are put first: if we’re earnest about wanting

to have sex with someone else, not to them or on them or at

them, earnest about wanting a partnership, not a dictatorship, then

whenever our partners are not interested in doing something sexual we

want, we defer to them. And after all, we can always tend to our sexual

needs with our own two hands.

You might also notice a particularly telling dynamic in Samy’s

story. What her boyfriend did to her was not even about his own need

for a physical, sexual release: he put his hand down HER pants forcibly

AFTER they had already had sex together (presumably consensually).

Doing so would have been very unlikely to bring him to orgasm, or

alleviate any physical sexual frustration on his part. Rather, what he

did was make a clear demonstration that she is not allowed to deny him

what he wants, when he wants it, and that her no — when he wants a yes

— is meaningless. He doesn’t ask her what she likes: he tells

her. His actions make clear that he feels that her sexual desire, if

and when it is present, is a non-issue. What he did was not about his

feeling horny or wanting to get off, and he may well have gotten off

already with the sex they already had: it was about his need to make

clear who is in change, and that it very much is not her. This is

textbook sexual abuse.

It’s not overeager to let someone know that a person who forces sex

— especially more than once, as Samy stated has happened — unto them

while they are saying no, declining that sex, is not a safe person to

be around. In the event that I’m wrong, and he is safe, it’s still a

win-win. Not staying with him won’t harm either of them. In the event

that you’re right, my whole idea about this situation and all of what I

know about rape and abuse is totally backwards, and the cruelty here is

hers or some other woman’s, leaving spares that guy more cruelty,

doesn’t it? If not, why not?

I have a tough time swallowing the idea that if you were to be in

the position where someone was going to routinely not take no for an

answer from you sexually, and force you to do sexual things you did not

want to do, or when you did not want to do them, continuing to do so

while you were saying — and meaning — no, that you’d feel like that

was a safe situation to you, and that were you in that position, did I

not posit that wasn’t safe — or tell you you asked for it — you’d

feel like I was responding in the best interest of your well-being.

Here’s hoping, for your sake, for your girlfriend’s sake, and for

anyone else you may interact with, that you consider adjusting your

thinking on this. And I don’t just say that for her sake, especially

since she’s got the option of finding someone with healthier sexual

attitudes to be with — you, on the other hand, are stuck with you. The

way you’re thinking tends to not only be detrimental to her (if you

care about her, and another men around her feels he arouses her desire

and owes him like you feel she woes you, will it seem like such a great

idea then?) and other women, it also really hinders you and other men

from experiencing bonafide partnership with women, real character and

real masculinity, and sex that is really about shared desire and pleasure, which blows the freaking roof off of the alternative, emotionally as well as physically.

To be frank, any woman who writes on rape or interpersonal abuse

issues at all, and who advises women to merely keep themselves safe by

getting away from men who endanger or harm them gets responses like

this. I get letters from men somewhat regularly explaining to me, as if

I were just a foolish child who did not understand the world despite 38

years of living in it, why women deserve to be raped, why women make

men so miserable or unhappy that men "have" to rape us or abuse us, how

we could protect ourselves by just structuring the whole of our lives

in response to what men want from us (despite the fact that men vary

widely and that doing so it a literal impossibility, on top of an

absolute insult). I have also, of course, gotten plenty of emails over

the years letting me know all of the ways in which I and other women

deserve all manner of abuses, and how men are excused in doling them

out. These kinds of responses — including your own — are constant

object lessons which only tend to demonstrate exactly the kinds of

dynamics we’re working to help people escape, break free of and change.

Oddly enough, we do not tend to get these kinds of responses, ever,

when we advise men on how to be safe from other men, from abusive women

in their lives, nor do we get these kinds of responses from women no

matter who we’re advising to keep themselves safe. Male writers on

these issues also do not tend to get these kinds of responses as often,

which is hardly a shocker. And I generally do not answer these kinds of

responses. In part that’s because there are a lot of them, and if I

published them all, I’d scare and depress the hell out of a lot of

people when it came to men: I love men as much as I love women and

don’t want the women who would read them to get the impression that

these kinds of responses are sound representations of all men. They’re

not: many, many men — maybe even most men — are bigger than this,

kinder than this, smarter than this, better men than this. (They also

tend to feel less of a need to tell women "how it is" like this, or to

pretend to be friendly with me when they’re saying things which enable

violence and inequality towards me and other women.) Plus, more times

than not, it’s an exercise in futility. This may well be one too, for

all I know, but I’d love for you to prove me wrong.

But I like to think that if I do every now and then, someone on the

fence or struggling with these attitudes might see that there are

healthier alternatives which are better for everyone, not just for the

partner who is made to feel responsible for other’s actions or

feelings, obligated to have sex when that’s not what they want, or who

is assaulted because someone decided they are entitled to have dominion

over that person.

Heck, even if nothing I say in response has any merit to you or

anyone else, your own words might help someone out simply by showing up

these attitudes for exactly what they are, for as pervasive as they

are, and for as flawed and tragic as they are.

I’m tossing out a couple links here, both to material on the site,

as well as at other sites which maybe — just maybe — might clue you

in a bit more.



