“Well, I was the one who stopped it,” he said, referring to the flow of migrants. “And I’ll tell you the shame of Australia then — 1,200 kids dying and adults dying in the water and the horrific carnage that was taking place and the human misery that I saw.”

He added that Australia takes in tens of thousands of refugees a year through processes that do not involve smuggling people. “We have the track record of being the best resettlers of refugees of anyone in the world,” he said.

But stopping the boats, in his view, was more important than helping the people in detention.

Would he consider new approaches, I asked, such as letting New Zealand follow through on its offer to take a group of refugees from Australia’s offshore detention camps?

“No,” he said. “We don’t think that is consistent with the border protection regime put in place, and we are very concerned that that could risk this thing opening up again.”

Though I didn’t know it would show up in Maureen’s column (news and opinion writers operate separately even when interviews are shared), Mr. Morrison’s boat trophy is indeed a telling symbol: It’s as absolute as he is on the issue.

“If you don’t stop them coming, well, the absolute human carnage continues, and so you have to be very focused, mission focused on that,” he said. “You can’t do things that starts it all off again.”

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