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... the speaker or ... some may have known for a long time ... in different incarnations ... I ... Annie's ... really one of the smartest people I know and he has a tremendous ... perspective on technology ... meet the marble ... I ... the the the the ... I ... so how it ... is great ... see you and I ... you are here ... fifty six is the right ... and ... your company Intellectual Ventures was ... was it just new dander ... we've been around for awhile then but ... that it was only go a long time ago in terms of the movie industry right ... so ... in in us and we had a kind of vigorous discussion which I hope we can have again ... is that the that thing you most the thing is just six but yet my new love the Versa's kept me ... up ... so yes yes ... I ... what a jerk ... it what did your company ... buys patents ... what we like to say We and has been skewed and things would he do all the above note will recall invention capital ... and our goal is to invest in invention ... now ... that one way to invest in invention is like Steve Brown venture capital we file patents ourselves ... on our own inventions of war the inventions of people to partner with us ... where the seventeenth largest inventor in the world ... the fifth largest United States ... only IBM Micra soft beach PNG file more new patents the media ... we also have the businesses like private equity per week by making it a controlling investment ... in existing portfolios ... and here we buy pounds from start-ups from fortune five hundred companies from universities from all over the place ... so ... what did you guys invented recently that we we know something about ... will it get to labs or a honey do these inventions we absolutely have Labs wheelhouse of a ... wider trend Belfiore of more than a hundred ... people come to work every day and all am ... I doing all kinds of inventions ranging from ... nuclear reactors ... with a new kind of nuclear power reactor the reinvented spun off a company called Terra Power ... there is a dedicated try make that ... a real thing ... when the process spinning off a company ... that has a unique kind of broadband internet ... that we think is going ... to revolutionize mobile broadband ... okay ... I'm fascinated ... to ... gleefully ... powers to see the reactor design different than the ... pressurized light water reactor that is present well we had ... a ... there's a ... there's a bunch of major problems with existing reactors ... beer is perceived safety issues ... and is the older ... reactors as real ones but there's also perceive what ... is the nuclear waste problem ... when the biggest one is that there's not that much uranium in the world ... on ... most of the uranium ... I ... you can use our normal reaction if this is a process called enrichment ... yes says the the rain you need to get on the ground you can only burn seven tenths of one percent seventy basis points ... of the rainy and ask if it is enrichment process ... that is dangerous we proliferation which another problem ... so our reactor actually burns nuclear waste as its fuel ... so we can power of United States for more than a hundred years ... with all of electricity needs ... just don't waste that we're currently spending money Taranaki out what to do it and ... I'm pretty sure spearhead ... the government has has experiment with that idea ... of recycling in nuclear waste not in the way we have what we have a brand new kind of reactor ... okay um ... it be always doing was waste mostly poultry processing right which is incredibly expensive the tilt of the Swan experimental plant ... well it turns every processing is how you make nuclear weapons ... OK and for that reason you really don't want the whole world serving jewelry processing plants ... aam but you can do without ... we do that getting his wish that we mean other data to nuclear weapons right and so our reactor we argue is safer ... it has ... to be greatly reduced waste issue because we can take away some existing reactors and burned as fuel ... and we can read all of that the uranium not just the seven tenths of percent ... so ... he is the triple play it since the reactor of your dreams that I've ... that you have seen every accuracy my signal reactors are a nightmare not just and you know what Nathan and is pledging to make a more hands ... that's basically my ... my my takeaway here ... aam ... ok the Bing and ten ... what ... was old and there's an interesting branches aren't C pheasants called man of materials ... and we jumped on this when it first came out about ten years ago ... two of our investors made him a prediction like this but to learn better sort are will almost certainly a noble prize ... at some point the silly deserve the Nobel Prize ... they've got Noble prize you're the first person in the ten years and you predict someone's to get the Nobel Prize ... that's a person ... on ... it's a new branch assaulting his ex got in for a while it was incredibly cold but no one knew what his purpose was ... to purposely gel ... for foreign his weekend making broadband in tandem ... that is super hide and with this isn't this durable DH ... his new satellites ... and things on top of your your up ... House isn't the issue is the isthe in order to get up and with the very short wavelengths ... the short wave Wang's ... it acts like light not like radio waves ... and so you have to focus and demon directly and she knew this ... dish to focus ... Mr. moving ... that's a real problem because just to chill the dash ... and back and planes and boats and other things that should have dishes while the servo motors the division moved its attractiveness outlined exactly ... aam of course you couldn't do this in your cell phone he couldn't do this and I am not on a laptop ... aam ... our aunt and I was Electronic rooster ... also there she ... see what is flat panel on growth instead of that the of the satellite antenna ... their indices poignant if on the top of a car ... or on the plane or on the back of your tablet ... it's just fantastic antenna that will steer and find the love of the seventy six the year Electronic is terrible it's not actually visit nothing physically moves so what's moving to the electrons electrons on ... the ... managerial is ... in theory interest in parcels it isn't sweet concrete materials and of properties ... that no ordinary material in half ... and so this mature lacks a little bit like a selective ones ... so ... by changing an electrically and programming different parts of the antenna on what we make a picture by preventing differ little transistors ... on a display stand different pixels ... here if you think about pixels for the encounter ... it's not exactly true but told it like that ... by the programming the pattern on the intent ... you make the antenna able to steer that for the sky or that ... and candid she came to different frequencies new subjective radios with governments ... okay ... so that I know it is that that's great that's entrepreneurial to social good your inventing things ... that there's the other part of your company ... where you just call like pants ... and or bought on I mean you still love the paper the AMR ... to rent the miner which you ... and then use to people right ... you've seen some people right ... we have sinned some people get in a worse those that strength will do ... our bit ... we believe that it's important for there to be a liquid capital market ... around in a valuable asset ... around ... start-ups that with the capital markets called venture capital ... for existing businesses a larger sizes called private equity ... when they become public is called Nasdaq the heart of ... the stock exchange ... we think there's a lot of value him people investing in stock ... and then be able to realize that right ... im so exactly did you the way ... private equity and venture capital revolutionize their parts of the economy ... we think that this part means revolution exceeding its a good thing ... every company ... many of which are innovative companies that customers ... loved the products they may give would like to see them focused on more innovation or lor prices or some other ... some other desirable ... qualities and upright ... isn't that good thing that they're spending all this time and bandwidth suing each other in courts ... from Sweden to Australia in a Easts taxes to everywhere else ... well overpass isn't that ... just to mess with you all the way our system works ... is it's very duplicative ... people compete ... to mobile companies try to compete you don't say ... well why shouldn't it be one smart phone company by why doesn't everybody else just go home ... and of course if you're the one ... you might think that's really had led the producers said that less than ... a little bit ... what they've done a fantastic job to earn the position that there ... and once they're in that position ... as you said you don't want somebody else but the name of a pending ... and so the sentence MTN's they go around ... the patents may includes the incentive begin jeweler Shipley gives you the right to enforce them ... that is part of how the system works ... you also say ... why should all of these tech executives get so rich ... and isn't that should make how all of that money into more R and D ... and not blaming you that I'm ... I usually live in your mind that important ... well ... I see is a continuum ... he and I I think the idea being ventures should also get rich ... investors should get funding ... this is injured we should have more inventions ... is good for everybody ... yet but come on this is a mean it's exploded into an insanity ... Tim Cook ... I mean that's a ... fairly BTG's company ... and even he was saying it's a pain in the ... it's a huge overhead ... yes we don't want some bills assign a painting but you know ... things about patent system are broken I believe he said I mean you know whether the example he cited a double passes to mean broke a Muslim house estimate was about a system of standards by us ... and how standards body still will pass ... AM I might agree with him that it's broken it's been broken that way for a long time and ... for reasons that people in it ... actually wanted ... aam ... is now ... I think that a meritocracy is the best way to run ... and industry ... up for a long time we had a head to head competition the tech business ... without happens is nobody had any ... OK is in the mid nineties of Micra soft was saved by Apple ... aam ... they're trying to stop with ads ... I understand from the business and it was ... like why didn't ... the genius that is why ... they would have been ... even leave by the way ... aam I we Micra soft time ... these days we now have head to head competition between companies were some of them to have apps ... so in the same way that in various points in time people have ... used ... up lots of tricks and techniques ... a little complaining of a government ... ok when I was a Micra soft in the late nineties ... people complain that the government and they got this big any trust and the people who are your partners by the way ... and ... at that point on most of the March didn't complain the Gov ... and turning people would've said this is a special one-time thing Micra soft is so big and we have to go do that ... and it will will keep doing this ... aam Jim Barksdale once told me that it was a strategy for Sensex losers ... the that ... um ... and ... today the irony is cool is me have a lot of folks on immobile ... an even greater irony for the company is complaining Micra soft ... write a ... book ... any time there is a strategic tool ... that someone can use to try to get a hand ... in this fierce clash of the Titans ... battles that you see him back in the day was that Apple and Micra soft or Netscape and Microsoft rate you can pick the berries Lotus development and and Micra soft and ... bright ... United girl doesn't know what I know is how the audiences is yes weeding what with the Heller then ... I'm ... it ... Villa's been battles now ... if you look of the new version of those today ... those battles involve companies impacts ... I didn't read that situation ... ah but it was clear as day to me this was going to happen ... because that's what happens in mature and I to get it you have to get a pass ... on this ... a brave new ... cool broadband channel or get nuclear reactor ... here in the Markit ... Eve pursuing an candidate secondly presumably you're going to try to Mana ties both of these things is one where another ice and short in the marketplace in the normal way we think about my station ... you're going to be out there even licensing designs somebody were building ... these things yourself ... not at this time normal capitalism right well it turns out in those cases we are ... doing spin out companies ... but the nature of an invention that is such that really allows you to list the company ... is pretty rare ... there's lots of inventions that are pieced parts they're useful for the top I ... are anxious but only license those others ... by ... EU and eighty unless somebody else yes ... it Tim Cook's company ... yes you probably know there's like ... I think there's an entire website ... and I mean I mean the understating kit that maybe more than one ... that does nothing but read that happens filed by Apple ... no this right ... sure um ... so ... they have a lot of things the pen that I presume are are um ... just parts relate to say they're just ... connected store you know some component that they might or might not uses some product the Mets and that what does that website ... because they're doubling down on secrecy and ... one way that maybe ... maybe McCain is the look and see what they what they had to ... sell I get that that they're an active company in the piece this is is and four ... for my experience which I don't read their website everyday whenever I do look good ... the pattern seem to be a bad things that are ... reasonably related to the wind is is there ... you're ... a big part of your companies do something different ... it's not inventing the part that snout licensing the park it's not you know Apple were cooler my curse upending submits relevant to their business ... it is ... buying up these portfolios of that is so continues to people about them ... that helps ... innovation ... that helps while ... you know the ... creativity in the world ... well ... if the people who create don't get paid that's ultimately a problem ... in this case is ... going to get a ... bow in it there's a high intensity minutes Valuewalk and they go into business here is a very hard for individual investors project we individual vendors that have only a piece of the overall solution to get a ... so ... be it for the same reason private equity is valuable because as owners of businesses or what happened to be debated that that question while I'm on the site is saying a broadly upright equity isn't that right ... and ... I that's my feeling you know it ... will be to get marry up here did you give Ascena statistics on ... the on the in the case of pounds there are lots of people who own inventions ... there are very well positioned to take them in the next step for the next step is usually for us mostly we license apps will mostly see a people ... if people start to ... tell you why never can pay you ... then the people who paid you in a friendly deal so when I'm at my school doesn't hate you ... and the fact is ... that ... if you don't enforce your rights no one is going for some forty to why these just Yemeni forgive me but it sounds like ... you know some of Horatio Alger been saying that ... this is some lone wolf ... person in her basement and cheese and been in some cool thing but she has no company around or ... just known resources ... NDAQ said the tube EyePet portfolios from all range of ... types of people ... really are most of them ... want from ... people with no means to defend themselves or Monti's their invention or most of them bought but even a fortune by good fortune five hundred the fortune five hundred companies don't SLE have the means to duty that when a look ... at the right of Fortune five hundred Nathan ... ok to how many CIA fall was like R and D ... how many Silicon Valley companies have a meal research department ... and I'm in it ... well there's a lot nicer to Micra soft ... unfamiliar with that one ... okay ... let's let's another one of the scale ... IBM HP ... the Silicon Valley the Silicon Valley ... IBM research these days is a shot of what used to be but it sorta counts ... bag aam ... ok but that was a new one company when you started ... the ... company was ... a trip to the house but ... that doesn't Kubota poses and cool have R and D ... they have R and D not harder ... get better returns ... there's a difference between an apple doesn't appear are in your view ... and it never has had ... a pretty gets ... debate dabbled in it periodically for sharing your time that we'll research group is very different than saying that awesome advanced about what ... the hell was a wonderful thing to like about also Micra soft ... the point is that ... um most CFO has seen the R and D department is a black hole ... it's the Roach motel for dollars ok the dollars check in and they don't come back out ... and if you can tell the CFO no actually I can make some money back on that ... that helps the Financial attorney model for the next guy to receive a get this straight ... if you're doing and I am somewhat familiar with R and D department Mike SUP and visited with them I think you range that in in in the second day in and I've ... seen them since ... some the things they do become products and other things never become products or segments of ... breathing components of progress ... so aam ... is what you're saying aam ... that you're helping to Mana ties things that are really ... things that will become products or ... many people had any role in the economy which are going to be the only some money on that so the CIA Posen Somme read it ... mom inventors color outside once ... and so in ventures in the company free will eat all the great inventions that aren't core to the business the company ... or the thing of the many corn and a side dish of the division that ... and those conventions are equally valid ... that one of those created the company that did the Daiso for The and that might be just a smart idea might be just as good ... the companies are in a very por position that the Capline's some ... no ... one approached approach to you seem to be arguing ... is that ... of when the company is unable to make a product ... than all of those ideas just go to somebody else ... anyone can pick them up all the fun out on ally ... ally dinner and then will I do think you would not be reasonable reform of the patent system to say you know why ... and of course is you know pants go right back to the beginning of our country so ... it ... you know why ... if you're in the business of making weighing in on wheels or whatever was people are making him back in those days that they had minded worse ... some people like Jefferson were a lot more sophisticated than that ... um ... he may come from rolling office chair of the most local of been saying for stance in ... you know whatever I think you've been in Queens if the team that wins it ... becomes Jefferson lecture ... but um ... maybe that's the motto to live there all doubt ... cooling winds it to finals as too but ... I ... um ... the idea I'm pretty sure I can be pots hundred percent positive ... financial way you think about is ... this is to protect people and ... making things that they're actually putting use in the marketplace no that's false actually ... um most have big ideas of how the system was to reward the inventor however the idea is he's ... and the very first paths and stocks it says ... make users sell ... okay it's in any way you can utilize the idea ... a guide to the notion of the named Andrew comes of the great idea license that others ... is as old house ... Nicola Tesla licenses pounds to Westinghouse and the selected ... motorists are keen to be ... Thomas Edison license most of his past other companies ... most of the vendors most ... licensor path out to other people so ... he took the ITT to the notion ... that you have to actually be the manufacturer ... we're telling didn't work or your with one well all I even his contract for a ... now that was in the thousands to the specialist Tim Clark ... Martin manufacture anything and why are these two ... fine but ... I think they just as valid the company now as they did and of course there are valid ... will know why is it valid for somebody else to come up with a ninety or someone else makes implies that a bad thing ... it is in the what the the that is the devil ... and all round to go around in this giant team where judges who are qualified to figure this out were actually pack examiners who very often are qualified to figure this out ... are deeply involved ... in all of the digital revolution that goes round ... around this new law on arrival it's also wrong ... for some reason take stuff that isn't there it's ... it's wrong to be able to sign their name the painting they didn't die ... and the millions of dollars doing it ... and that happens all the BBC Persian Chile is in serious trouble with this rats nest of lawsuits is going on right now of course there's problems the rafters while losses but ... the part and parcel were to order the prompts ... the prom is this the industry's growing up ... in mature industries ... people actually respect patents and has lots of innovative mature industries for patterns are the bedrock of innovation ... the biotech and say how much my tech innovation within the answer was no patents ... the biotech people tell you zero ... also taken by the way will never make up half our product ... the little biotech company doesn't have the resources to get the approval and manufacture and market the doctors ... don't do a deal that big Pharma company right ... so that ... the incentive the patents provide is essential in more mature industries ... in this particular industry in a small narrow part of cash ... people fought for a while he were different when the normal rules don't apply to us ... and we write all ten of smartphones in London and although the software industry to ... me it in the early days the softer industry ... people scare told me about copyright says that's coming of age ... in India about the PTSs ... to copy each other will legally ... another way to the pride and a half pounds ... of each others that didn't matter that much ... people started filing pounds ... a desexed I could've predicted ... not exactly was going to be there ... to look to the rates of which companies were filing cabinets ... you say hey these guys are thinking it's gonna be serious ... in the start of the six doco and very few pounds ... they bought some from overturned from a few few other places ... as part of acquisitions but if you look at Yahoo's filing rate them ... it was very high he would take him seriously as were a pile of other companies ... now ... so that the will of venture capital community is they will continue to make ... great companies was huge market caps and no pacts ... the other thing is is a global world ... in all that David grieved was mentioned earlier war on Baidu our chance an eye on that they they wanna come here in United States ... people start using patterns keep away ... or bills don't try to bypass so they can enter ... OK unity it's a fact of life the patents are part of the ... competitive landscape how would you change defenses ... well you know um ... just George's there isn't just barely higher and I'm ... there is a huge process demand system was changed ... there is a giant of candle called dinner and dance act ... he was maybe seven years in the lobbying process ... it was kind of the ... dog's breakfast of good things and bad things an OK things irrelevant things ... as is every deal of that size in Washington it's a crazy process by which that goes for my ... but ... most observers of the patent system would say is that it was indeed as good compromises could be achieved ... some people call for change in the patent system yet classes will actually begin just change it ... and probably is ten years before changes again ... with one exception which is the lawful was changes when there are new court case ... one of the funny things of the narrative as apt is that when ... you look to the goals of people had only started seven years ago there's a whole list of issues ... most of those issues were dealt with ... in a reasonable way some some not ... by court decisions ... in between ... and that's the way are widely balls is one court received at the time it creates precedent ... aam and it's a it's broken ... they almost always have an axe to grind ... aam you never see someone giving a great presentation like Mary Meeker guys ... Zynga's quantitative reasons wanting to look into quantitative reasons you know ... the site has a sms growth at all ... so ... one last question then will have some from the audience ... um ... if ... you were the head of fewer Tim Cook ... yet this job ... I wouldn't be as good as he is ... oh and did it ... and I ... were to have the job of reading Samsung ... when we do ... continue slowing in Davenport ... the jewel in the marketplace deal with it so what would you do it you suck trust listings years there's a funny dynamic this going on here which is historically ... the bulk of the money and cell phones an anemic carriers ... not handset that's right ... they come on ties the hands and eyes and fiddling United States control them ... down to read ridiculous level I agree ... so ... the miracle the Steve Jobs TN ... in my view is just the phone looking beautiful ... he was coming out of the new business model ... business model led to this court follows me so cool ... I bet that while ... they do not mess with me ... number one carrier ... to meet a bunch of money to me ... for a number three I manage it on the app store and an iTunes ... right ... so he is a fundamentally different business model ... beyond the PC ... Apple had the position ... not everyone would agree ... you would know that it was high and any better and cooler ... but RIM veteran Colin and five percent market share market share was such a powerful thing right that was a very tough business to the Apple PC world ... in this I totally agree in this business because they're so special and different than the broken the business model ... they have fantastic businesses on the big business achievements of the twenty first century ... so far anyway is that that that Steve Jobs broken business model that as a result ... when the season and right coming and it's not just a case of ... well heeled by OS versus those that were so your ... body and write in a given away free because they've got a monopoly on other business to subsidize it ... um ... but you get it winds up undercutting the special ones ... and so ... they're an interesting position ... that they don't wanna be the R and D lab ... for people to get away for free ... I believe he said that way and they don't want to de value that specialize ... in ... in order to hang on to feel that there was a discussion earlier today about having become a trillion dollar company ... and while the citizens phrasing you need a moat around the castle because people want to get your treasure ... is it renders a trillion dollars ... a lot of people wanting come across the globe ... and that now has many compliments gets caught ... the trademarks in Scott customer ... and brand loyalty ... it's got all kinds of other things but one of those things in them I was patents ... and so ... a ... what Tim Cook and others are trying to do is he's trying to protect his very valuable Castle ... if I was Samsung Samsung ... Macy's fantastic products also ... and suddenly the guy who makes domestic product to ... offer more harder perspective is the bottom of the food chain ... people still Eamonn features in the softer they you got for free the meeting even rifle found out ... aam ... it and ... they are come on ties by the carriers and everybody else so I was Samsung I would say this to help with the clout the job said and if I was Samsung I would say how can I get that out ... I can't ... really that's what this is about know how this are one of the battles ... because it's really hard to compete with Apple on just ... sheer coolness ... India's you'll hear how women use some of the features of a pioneer ... and as you know Apple was the company didn't took lots of risks for lots of years ... I like to talk about with them ... his name ... J P young and in baseball if you're a great baseball player you have like three fifteen batting and back to the sky is four hundred than using its sixty percent of the time the ... pumpkin is wrong with this ... the way baseball works to solicit for some of the time and a well well invention is like that only ... my God the number of Mrs easy Mormons ... you can use a lot ... so of course you get credit for a product like ... I phone that to him I don't get credit for trying crazy that doesn't mean a word ... y'know ... we're looking TV land deal was a bunch of parts some of which actually ... did work but ... the whole ... the whole don't think they'll it was too early ... but you know you the way they handled the detail underneath was quite interesting actually ... and it was an innovative attempt at trying to get the same kind of a market ... action area where there were an ... era when there were carriers and a mobile wasn't really part of the ... T Mobile in the consensus always be connected via mobile data wasn't really part of the equation ... so ... is ... it possible for people in the end of it like that said look I needed to pay ... it happens that they're using pounds or one of the techniques that people use and ... but ... they're also using all kinds of other techniques ... aam ... the use any trust ... in both ways he is entrusted and asked him talk about the price fixing free books ... aam ... I think it's ... there's all very dynamic environment where people been trying all kinds of stuff to see what works ... and how to one of the things that could mean part of the most they can use it ... and ... is it wasteful it is wasteful as Annie head to head competition ... but guess what can be had competition where ... we've got to know that there's a difference It's not competition in the market ... it's not ... Apple and Samsung say never again this room ... my prices that might tablets better my phone is better or cheaper or get some other ... quality that will make you want to buy this that the of the desert has more apps or whatever does ... it's going into the quarter some administrative biting having some ... by the sitting above the market to remain in many cases actually not understand ... even with ... normal average people on the Street understand about say a phone ... because they have lifetime appointments in their time in a bubble in their their judges and courts ... and saying you you sort this out ... well ... I misled this guy getting your gonna help me do it ... only because one guy ... copied the other guy ... as if they did well in a way not happy that if they didn't them to lose an argument that I'll get ... damages for ... malicious from because courts are always perfect in the rulings Maldonado was perfect but gets ... up our system of using courts and will last ... is terrible except that it's best when the world ... of is is like what that might just be somebody else ... Mark Twain ... media ... yes not buying knowledge and I ... and our isn't around or Samuel Clemens isn't around to the complaint ... OK thank you need some ... questions ... Cameron and arguing really cool blog and its partners ... we all know it the ideas come a dime a dozen ... these days it's huge and integration ... and coming out with the compelling product the tree as a value and benefits to society ... taking your misusing the whole idea of the pattern ... the idea of the patents were ... to go and described the process so perfectly so we could be replicated and the recreate it than the norm is the sheer ... it was not ... the ... stock had a meet the group of people that would stifle innovation and not allow that to will for or ... well ... I'm glad that you don't think there's any greedy people in the room so let's stipulate that first ... aam ... the up well if you were in a developing country and you were suffering and dying ... in Africa up because I like to write company was sending you something of the few thousand dollars for a cause a Morte a few pennies because of ... the state that the half these patterns than they would not licensing to any other ... after our company nobody to the boat that ... that would be agreed that hurts ... no match for someone like company probably does more invention for people in developing world than ... anybody in this room and maybe anybody anywhere ... we have a whole you know I was a kid different well well let me answer that many of the Holy land called Global but ... that focuses on taking our best and vendors from across all of our other areas ... in using them to invent new solutions ... for people all over the world ... when a vaccine container that will hold vaccine ... the calls keep it cold in places like Africa where there is there some of the power grid ... a lot to hold it for months with no power whatsoever ... we have an in law Larry diagnostic tool we have the best ... a disease prediction software in the world I admire all of that but that the zodiac knew what they say is ... going and developing something today's accuse him ... at ... these people but going and buying go for portfolio happens to siphon and wish them make money off of that this company the difference so into the mix apples and oranges ... Apple's in something ... um ... Apple's membranes ... you know the ... US ... I just finally and in respect of the new deal ... ok I think that in fact ... capitalism by and large works ... I've been that happens or an asset like any other asset ... I don't think it's any worse to make money by investing in Pakistan by investing in preferred stock as a venture capitalist ... we supply capital to investors ... we supplied billions of dollars of capital to investors and stimulated invention a positive way ... and no it's not correct ... I don't agree that the patent system is only to be in to do the narrow view that's a revisionist view of it ... is ... he is in fact the first open source system ... the very first album for a system ever anyone ever came up what was the idea of a limited term of taps ... exactly Axes use I ... describe ... something enough detail that everyone can use it ... bought ... the quid pro quo I'll ... is it you get twenty years roughly ... through which you have the unique economic value ... Gemini has learned integration is changing in the week you base update to the effect it's really have had to move on and ... but ... the good die on ... this ... that omission ski with fortune magazine of ... sch fire few he Nathan quickly ... aam ... could you explain the capitalization of your company how much money you've used to capitalize it to the investors are besides you what your financial return has been so far and then lastly ... these are harder wall can help you can help you remember where they work ... and lastly ... which would you assess the animosity that this audience has for years for your endeavors including ... the questions you know that the NYSE the wall ahead in these questions for you these these people do not think you were engaged in truth and justice ... well ... when there was the last four ... but please know you have the first ones ... when the details of the first ones to broadly speaking what we have raised about five billion dollars ... from a set of investors that include large technology companies ... and ... a whole set of fat university endowments foundations ... of pension funds very much like a venture capital firm lead ... and where private firm we don't release other financial information ... aam ... and to one question to to go through all of it if you wanna follow up with the later Alt A answer when a candidate will be all of it ... aam ... the latter part ... it was very funny that ... by ... Gary is an attitude in Silicon Valley ... that some kinds of meritocracy deserve to be rewarded ... I was a Micra soft there was a senior engineer who ... was with me and ... meeting where someone is asking for slot among the impact ... and after the ball left the Texas to relieve those people they want ... wielded dollars CNX millions cover for just one idea ... I said ... what ... what we paid you for your ideals ... who is more ... was more millions of dollars ... and ... then ... there's a Sanaa Rio in which you say OK that we're entitled to that kind of pay for performance ... but ... other people aren't ... because they made the margin my company were one of the winners ... I don't agree with that I think that that that attitude was that that they were the winners that they were actively engaged the industry ... what are the words there's lots of people are acting in one scene of the deed was a competitor a partner Mike SUP was actively app they're ... putting their dear dear themselves and their money at risk to ... compete Absa like Samsung does like Gap absolutely loves the case that they fall on hard times ... okay that they had been as many companies are the debt to enter into early ... Apple but surely on the window they recovered is another business ... is in a start-up with him in general magic General Magic a fantastic start-up bag aam and ... a lot of people from the regional map team were there be invented tons of interesting stuff ... up we ultimately my company bought the house ... absolutely the word out there ... but they they didn't succeed that does that mean that their investors should get stiff and other people make billions on the thing I didn't let him ... I think it's a sense of entitlement ... and it's also a sales ... ban ... of killing strategy of reducing earlier they're playing blurbs from previous teams Franken is a blur he played ... of me pray said if people don't find what you you you doing threatening ... then it's probably not very important ... I can't ... people who feel threatened by Facebook they feel threatened by lots of brand new changing these mini nimbleness rule not so much by Facebook if you look the broader tech putting your business of newspapers ... they feel threatened in any yes ... and it was nice and I have to say ... that ... Beyonce so what were also in it and many ... other parts ironic about the question that I animosity ... is of course ... this is the leader when all the moving as the most important companies in Silicon Valley ... are doing exactly what I do ... ok ... this is the year in which Apple and Micra soft and Google and Facebook and a pile of other companies all block huge patent portfolios ... to further their strategic gains ... some of them did it together and ... some of it did together cemented it individually ... of but ... the exactly what I'm doing ... so ... I have to say to me that that the way in which ... the deal is fine if you wanna have animosity towards anyone you didn't already had I never was a popular kid in class I was ... young I ... had not been a popular kid in this class ... aam ... he writes cookbooks I want popularity I go to a ship's convention ... I got a lot to James beard Awards two weeks ago damage ... the ... things are important are always popular first ... okay it's as if I do think what I'm doing is Mimi really dilutive for innovation in the long run ... I can absolutely make the argument ... but obviously not ever be ... I did ... I know ... well ... Tim Cook was so great was last night read the yen is fantastically philosophical way in singlets and wonderfulness country where people can disagree with you ... so ... he set a better than I can ... we're here to ... I need them and did the draw I appreciate you being here and subjecting yourself to this false conversation ... except in your premise is that what you're doing is doing good in creating a liquid market ... I'm curious why a Intellectual Ventures seems to ... use of shell companies and ... affiliates and such to enforce the patterns that it owns I'm thinking of companies like lots this ... read read them and do it in its own names of people can see how in the open what you did well going ... back to us this is a common EU we sold it to ... aam ... that ye sow losses isn't an affiliate ... we do hold the patterns in it in a variety of different entities ... that's common in the industry ... aam ... Apple Intel IBM Micra soft ... all do that at one stage or another ... and there's some ... this unreasonable business reasons for doing now ... aam ... we do this to people directly ... so I'm not ashamed of suing people ... we seen people when it makes sense ... for our business because ... their intransigent in a number for a long time for many years he didn't see people ... and weak like to call ... likely billions of dollars in rail the season deals that didn't involve them in lawsuits ... eventually it to a point where people say out there When says they'll never sue ... as such concerns saying that ... you have to prove them wrong on the Nielsen pay anymore ... if that's the case when transparency in your favor ... well ... transparency is in our favor and we are transparent about the lawsuits that we file ... one file a lawsuit ... aam ... it ... all happened ... all kinds of all the documents ... every penny of every than anybody has is out there and ... you can ... sort this is really cool patterns doesn't really good job as other people that do the job of ... sifting and sorting through it ... all out there for everyone to see ... write it affected going social ventures I'm not can it get the full picture ... that's right ... it's not not is not a financial interest in his investors to do that to mean target for him and the ... light is true because there are there some important proprietary reasons for that ... okay we have to wrap up we're going to only be with you one more question I'm sorry can ... aam Tamsin conceals Opus lives on ... we launched a T3 and frankly were still around to the strength or innovation in the past has fallen so I'm one of the company's small companies that believes in towns are important ... um but you acquire patents on and that's a key part of ... what you do ... can you talk a little bit about how you go about valuing the patents ... since obviously the reason ... for stock market for patterns ... you assess how you value patents to purchase it it's really hard because you have to understand a bunch of things one is worth ... it ... where is um are having a well written patents ... are they that are due to develop patterns with their firearms other things like that ... but mostly isn't getting an important area for the industry ... yet if you buy patterns from a company that has gone belly up ... aam made in the markets Artie the and ... and and that's never coming back ... or ... maybe it's come a comeback I didn't mean really huge ... so we try to make our best guess is it's no different than making any investment decision ... except ... you don't have any of them are all information you have to to to do an investment so you can analyze financials ... and you don't really know what the future is ... and it's really long-term ... so it's it's rough justice but we try to do the job of it ... OK ... thank you thank you so much ... the ...