Raykz said: Are you sure about the jab being frame 16? I am pretty sure that can't be right. It definitely feels muuuch faster. I don't think there are 7 frames to drop LB, it definitely feels instant to me.



Cloud doesn't even raise his sword and the glow doesn't even come out.







I can say I am pretty certain the attacks don't go through any drop animation. I am doing attacks out of shield (which has a 7 frame drop) and out of LBCancel and there's a huge difference in speed. Am I imagining things?



I am not instantly cancelling the shield either, I know there are mandatory frames you have to stay on shield. I am waiting a while then dropping it.









Also, after having tried for a bit I can do the the same inputs for the shield on the method 2. I can do Down-B, then a tilt and then input Special and I will also get the tilt, just like with method 1, although the timing seems more strict. Click to expand...

off

Hitting special to cancel the charge on frame 6 makes it so the glow doesn't come out.In any case you seem sure, so I'll look into this again; it's possible that the window was just really specific or something. I'll be unnecessarily thorough this time around I guess.[Turning 'A+B=smash'just in case.]Jab on frame 1 (i.e. the same frame as the down-special), Special on frame 1. Impossible (as special is already pressed; doesn't cancel).Jab on frame 1, Special on frame 2. Impossible (it would be the equivalent of merely holding special, not having two separate special inputs; doesn't cancel).Jab on frame 1, Special on frame 3. Doesn't cancel.Jab on frame 1, Special on frame 4. Doesn't cancel.Jab on frame 1, Special on frame 5. Doesn't cancel.Jab on frame 1, Special on frame 6. Cancels but has no attack.Jab on frame 1, Special on frame 7. Cancels but has no attack.Jab on frame 1, Special on frame 8. Cancels but has no attack.Jab on frame 2, Special on frame 1. Impossible.Jab on frame 2, Special on frame 2. Impossible.Jab on frame 2, Special on frame 3. Doesn't cancel.Jab on frame 2, Special on frame 4. Doesn't cancel.Jab on frame 2, Special on frame 5. Doesn't cancel.Jab on frame 2, Special on frame 6. Cancels but has no attack.Jab on frame 2, Special on frame 7. Cancels but has no attack.Jab on frame 2, Special on frame 8. Cancels but has no attack.Jab on frame 3, Special on frame 1. Impossible.Jab on frame 3, Special on frame 2. Impossible.Jab on frame 3, Special on frame 3. Doesn't cancel.Jab on frame 3, Special on frame 4. Doesn't cancel.Jab on frame 3, Special on frame 5. Doesn't cancel.Jab on frame 3, Special on frame 6. Cancels but has no attack.Jab on frame 3, Special on frame 7. Cancels but has no attack.Jab on frame 3, Special on frame 8. Cancels but has no attack.Jab on frame 4, Special on frame 1. Impossible.Jab on frame 4, Special on frame 2. Impossible.Jab on frame 4, Special on frame 3. Doesn't cancel.Jab on frame 4, Special on frame 4. Doesn't cancel.Jab on frame 4, Special on frame 5. Doesn't cancel.Jab on frame 4, Special on frame 6. Cancels but has no attack.Jab on frame 4, Special on frame 7. Cancels but has no attack.Jab on frame 4, Special on frame 8. Cancels but has no attack.Jab on frame 5, Special on frame 1. Impossible.Jab on frame 5, Special on frame 2. Impossible.Jab on frame 5, Special on frame 3. Doesn't cancel.Jab on frame 5, Special on frame 4. Doesn't cancel.Jab on frame 5, Special on frame 5. Doesn't cancel.Jab on frame 5, Special on frame 6. Cancels but has no attack.Jab on frame 5, Special on frame 7. Cancels but has no attack.Jab on frame 5, Special on frame 8. Cancels but has no attack.Jab on frame 6, Special on frame 1. Impossible.Jab on frame 6, Special on frame 2. Impossible.Jab on frame 6, Special on frame 3. Doesn't cancel.Jab on frame 6, Special on frame 4. Doesn't cancel.Jab on frame 6, Special on frame 5. Doesn't cancel.Jab on frame 6, Special on frame 6. Cancels but has no attack.Jab on frame 6, Special on frame 7. Cancels but has no attack.Jab on frame 6, Special on frame 8. Cancels but has no attack.Jab on frame 7, Special on frame 1. Impossible.Jab on frame 7, Special on frame 2. Impossible.Jab on frame 7, Special on frame 3. Doesn't cancel.Jab on frame 7, Special on frame 4. Doesn't cancel.Jab on frame 7, Special on frame 5. Doesn't cancel.Jab on frame 7, Special on frame 6. Cancels and attacks but only starts to Jab on frame 13 and hits on frame 16.Jab on frame 7, Special on frame 7. Cancels but has no attack.Jab on frame 7, Special on frame 8. Cancels but has no attack.Jab on frame 8, Special on frame 1. Impossible.Jab on frame 8, Special on frame 2. Impossible.Jab on frame 8, Special on frame 3. Doesn't cancel.Jab on frame 8, Special on frame 4. Doesn't cancel.Jab on frame 8, Special on frame 5. Doesn't cancel.Jab on frame 8, Special on frame 6. Cancels and attacks but only starts to Jab on frame 13 and hits on frame 16.Jab on frame 8, Special on frame 7. Cancels and attacks but only starts to Jab on frame 14 and hits on frame 17.Jab on frame 8, Special on frame 8. Cancels but has no attack.Jab on frame 9, Special on frame 1. Impossible.Jab on frame 9, Special on frame 2. Impossible.Jab on frame 9, Special on frame 3. Doesn't cancel.Jab on frame 9, Special on frame 4. Doesn't cancel.Jab on frame 9, Special on frame 5. Doesn't cancel.Jab on frame 9, Special on frame 6. Cancels and attacks but only starts to Jab on frame 13 and hits on frame 16.Jab on frame 9, Special on frame 7. Cancels and attacks but only starts to Jab on frame 14 and hits on frame 17.Jab on frame 9, Special on frame 8. Cancels and attacks but only starts to Jab on frame 15 and hits on frame 18.So that confirms my initial findings. Maybe you just overestimate how long a frame is, unless you're doing something else entirely. Feel free to test things yourself http://smashboards.com/threads/foxys-guide-to-testing-and-labbing.417822/