imadunatic

join:2013-02-26

Barryton, MI 3 recommendations imadunatic Member [Internet] New Frontier Terms includes "data usage charges" wording...



"Reasonable network management practices that Frontier may adopt include, but are not limited to, the following: (i) data usage charges; (ii) a modification of a customer's serving facility or service technology; and/or, (iii) a modification of or a limitation on a customers data throughput speed or data consumption.



We're not a super heavy user, but I'd guess we're in the 500gb/month range; so I'm not sure what they think is excessive and this seems pretty open ended to me. I think I'll opt out of the new terms for now as it appears that the old terms were better for me and all.



For those wondering, you just need to call 1-855-520-7258 within 30 days and opt out to only be subject to the old terms.



Here is a link to the old terms: »



Here is a link to the new terms: »



If anyone catches anything else, I'd really be interested in bringing it to light here. This doesn't seem very pro-consumer to me. While this may just be good ol fashioned paranoia, I happened to notice that the new terms and conditions contains a section "NETWORK MANAGEMENT, USAGE LIMITATIONS AND FAIR USE POLICY", which worries me a little given all the data caps being imposed everywhere else, especially when reading section it clearly states:"Reasonable network management practices that Frontier may adopt include, but are not limited to, the following: (i) data usage charges; (ii) a modification of a customer's serving facility or service technology; and/or, (iii) a modification of or a limitation on a customers data throughput speed or data consumption.We're not a super heavy user, but I'd guess we're in the 500gb/month range; so I'm not sure what they think is excessive and this seems pretty open ended to me. I think I'll opt out of the new terms for now as it appears that the old terms were better for me and all.For those wondering, you just need to call 1-855-520-7258 within 30 days and opt out to only be subject to the old terms.Here is a link to the old terms: » frontier.com/docs/terms/ ··· 1415.pdf Here is a link to the new terms: » frontier.com/docs/terms/ ··· 1015.pdf If anyone catches anything else, I'd really be interested in bringing it to light here. This doesn't seem very pro-consumer to me.



Doug Huffman

join:2007-07-27

Washington Island, WI 5 recommendations Doug Huffman Member No risk here at 1.5 Mbps.



Hank

Searching for a new Frontier

Premium Member

join:2002-05-21

Burlington, WV 2 recommendations Hank to imadunatic

Premium Member to imadunatic

Thank you for posting that. I don't know Doug, that may be wishful thinking.



Darknessfall

Premium Member

join:2012-08-17 Cisco DPC3008

Asus RT-N66

3 recommendations Darknessfall to imadunatic

Premium Member to imadunatic

I read both the old and the new one and all it really seems to be is a way for them to protect their behinds if they need to do something against people who do crazy amounts of usage. The old agreement didn't really go much into detail about this. I would assume it's in preparation of people who are going to be using TBs of data a month when the Verizon sale completes. AT&T has had caps in their U-verse TOS for many many years, but the caps have never actually been put into effect.

imadunatic

join:2013-02-26

Barryton, MI 2 recommendations imadunatic Member That is my thought too, I just wish they would have been more forthcoming, though I'm not sure that would've helped my paranoia. LOL. I am personally happy with Frontier, but at the same time, I hate to give anything up if I can help it. Until the 300gb data caps started popping up with the cable providers, I didn't consider myself a heavy user.



Darknessfall

Premium Member

join:2012-08-17 Cisco DPC3008

Asus RT-N66

4 edits 2 recommendations Darknessfall Premium Member That was updated in December, correct?

I did see this(edit: Seems to be an old no longer in effect cap from years ago, ignore!):

"Trial Information: To better understand the dynamics of network utilization and network congestion, Frontier has instituted a trial in select markets (Kingman, AZ; Elk Grove, CA; Palo Cedro, CA; Mound, MN; Cookeville, TN; and Crossville, TN) to measure actual bandwidth consumption by application type. Frontier does not capture any site-specific information or restrict or inhibit the use of any applications. Frontier simply measures the amount of consumer bandwidth consumption by general type of application utilized (web-browsing, voice calling, video streaming, etc.). In the affected markets, high bandwidth users (e.g. usage over 100Gb or 250Gb of data per month) are advised to either limit usage or convert to a high user service plan."

Is this old and has never been removed from the page? I would've thought we would have heard about this by now if it was new.



Edit:

Yeah, it seems old. I went to archive.com and it was there in the past. Probably one of those really old trials Frontier did years ago as it was still there during 2012. Kind of stupid that they were too lazy to remove this from their site lol. False alarm.



Hank

Searching for a new Frontier

Premium Member

join:2002-05-21

Burlington, WV 2 recommendations Hank Premium Member Appears that they may also bring back modem rental fees. Also they may want to remove any responsibility for poor service from their responsibility.



Darknessfall

Premium Member

join:2012-08-17 3 recommendations Darknessfall Premium Member said by Hank: Appears that they may also bring back modem rental fees. What makes you say that?

imadunatic

join:2013-02-26

Barryton, MI 2 recommendations imadunatic Member said by Darknessfall: said by Hank: Appears that they may also bring back modem rental fees. What makes you say that? Frontier may also bill you additional charges or fees, including a separate modem fee and an additional

Frontier imposed HSI Surcharge



Oops... not new. Was in the old too. Oops... not new. Was in the old too.



Hank

Searching for a new Frontier

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join:2002-05-21

Burlington, WV ARRIS NVG443B

Ubiquiti NanoStation loco M2

2 recommendations Hank Premium Member Surprised you missed that. We have been paying the HSI Surcharge for sometime, even with low speeds that are paramount in WV. That charges as Frontier explained to me is to recoop for money spent to improve the network in your area even if you do not see or notice any improvement in service.



Darknessfall

Premium Member

join:2012-08-17 Cisco DPC3008

Asus RT-N66

1 recommendation Darknessfall Premium Member said by Hank: Surprised you missed that. We have been paying the HSI Surcharge for sometime, even with low speeds that are paramount in WV. That charges as Frontier explained to me is to recoop for money spent to improve the network in your area even if you do not see or notice any improvement in service. You still have the fee on your bill? You should have that checked as I believe it should be no longer be there. All new customers I've seen no longer have the fee as part of their bill.



Edit:

I read it as modem fee and not surcharge...



Must be something area specific as I don't have an internet surcharge fee on my bill in CT. Edit:I read it as modem fee and not surcharge...Must be something area specific as I don't have an internet surcharge fee on my bill in CT.

imadunatic

join:2013-02-26

Barryton, MI 1 recommendation imadunatic to Hank

Member to Hank

Hank, that's Frontier's subtle way of saying "we know we still have work to do in WV"....



Hank

Searching for a new Frontier

Premium Member

join:2002-05-21

Burlington, WV 1 recommendation Hank Premium Member Darnessfall - give it time.



imadunatic - lol, or it could be saying something else.



guppy_fish

Premium Member

join:2003-12-09

Palm Harbor, FL 1 recommendation guppy_fish to Darknessfall

Premium Member to Darknessfall

said by Darknessfall: all it really seems to be is a way for them to protect their behinds if they need to do something against people who do crazy amounts of usage.



Three possibilities,

You CAP your customers or

You charge more for data or

You go bankrupt

Fios minimum speed in VZ land is now 50Mbit, that's @ 375MB a minute , 22GB hour or 1 TB every 2 days. When your a Tier One network ( VZ ) and pay nothing for Transit, no big deal, when your a tier 3 Network and everything upstream has a cost per bit, well one can see Frontier could be in a world of hurt with the 1.5 Million new Fios accounts starting in April.Three possibilities,You CAP your customers orYou charge more for data orYou go bankrupt

sd70mac

Premium Member

join:2015-10-18

Woodstock, IL Zoom 5370

Linksys WRT1900ACS

ARRIS SB6190

sd70mac Premium Member said by guppy_fish: Three possibilities,

You CAP your customers or

You charge more for data or

You go bankrupt Option #2 seems to be the first choice.



Smith6612

MVM

join:2008-02-01

North Tonawanda, NY 1 recommendation Smith6612 to guppy_fish

MVM to guppy_fish

Or Option 4: Frontier becoming so large purchasing up old Verizon assets and dark Fiber routes that they become a Tier 2 provider.



guppy_fish

Premium Member

join:2003-12-09

Palm Harbor, FL guppy_fish Premium Member Option 4 is unlikely as Frontier is broke and any future income will be going to the loan sharks it borrow the funds for the purchase of CA,TX,FL assets.



Hank

Searching for a new Frontier

Premium Member

join:2002-05-21

Burlington, WV 1 recommendation Hank Premium Member So far they have not had any problems getting money. I know they keep crying that they don't don't have the money to this or that, but it is not stopping them from procuring new territories.

thegame543

join:2004-12-03

Alkol, WV 1 recommendation thegame543 to imadunatic

Member to imadunatic

About a year ago or so I was reading stuff on Frontiers web site and it said usage over 100GB - 150GB a month might come with extra charges. But I have no chance of reaching that.. this is from www.testmy.net. Download :: 26 Kbps 3 kB/s Upload :: 136 Kbps 17 kB/s



X



You might have a problem...



Your connection scored only 0% of the Frontier Communications average (100% slower). This does not always mean that you're in bad shape. If the Internet package you subscribe to is slower than most people using your ISP you'll see this message.



Smith6612

MVM

join:2008-02-01

North Tonawanda, NY 2 recommendations Smith6612 MVM Now if you had Frontier's very old 5GB Cap... you'd still hit that at 26kbps if you try hard enough ;D

PJL

join:2008-07-24

Long Beach, CA 2 recommendations PJL to guppy_fish

Member to guppy_fish

I guess I'm an optimist. I'm going to wait and see what actually happens post-transition to Frontier in California rather than expecting the worse. That's just me I guess.



Hank

Searching for a new Frontier

Premium Member

join:2002-05-21

Burlington, WV 1 recommendation Hank Premium Member That is a good outlook. We all know that the quality and reliability of Frontier service has deferred greatly around the country. Hopefully your area will be on the good side.

PJL

join:2008-07-24

Long Beach, CA 2 edits 1 recommendation PJL Member said by Hank: That is a good outlook. We all know that the quality and reliability of Frontier service has deferred greatly around the country. Hopefully your area will be on the good side.

Also, with all those new customers from FL, TX and CA comes all that new revenue. You think Verizon was only breaking even with those customers? I think they sold these areas not just to get cash plus unload a boat load of capital assets and employee expences from their balance sheet. That's why they like wireless so much -- the capital asset base and employees is small versus sales. The good news is that the infrastructure is in "pretty good" shape here. I say "pretty good" because until the last month or so it's been great, but between about 8:30 and 11:00 pm the speed and latency drops precipitously on most evenings. Verizon says they're working it. But who know what the future brings.Also, with all those new customers from FL, TX and CA comes all that new revenue. You think Verizon was only breaking even with those customers? I think they sold these areas not just to get cash plus unload a boat load of capital assets and employee expences from their balance sheet. That's why they like wireless so much -- the capital asset base and employees is small versus sales.

john262

join:2003-09-26

Elko, NV 1 recommendation john262 to guppy_fish

Member to guppy_fish

Not true. They should not need to impose caps or charge for more data in order to avoid going bankrupt. Caps and data charges are all about greed and several studies have proven that..

atigerman

join:2002-01-19

Tigerton, WI 1 recommendation atigerman to imadunatic

Member to imadunatic

I feel the change in the TOS is just to handle the lawsuit issues they had in wv

tomupnorth

join:2005-01-14

UpperMidwest tomupnorth to imadunatic

Member to imadunatic

said by imadunatic: We're not a super heavy user, but I'd guess we're in the 500gb/month range; so I'm not sure what they think is excessive and this seems pretty open ended to me. I think I'll opt out of the new terms for now as it appears that the old terms were better for me and all.



For those wondering, you just need to call 1-855-520-7258 within 30 days and opt out to only be subject to the old terms.



I clicked on the link inside their email to their Fair Access Policy and was surprised it referenced a doc from 2012 that says "Satellite" and sho nuff it's zackly like my Hughesnet satellite service. Well almost. 10GB day and 10GB overnight--my sat is 10GB day and 50GB overnight. Really? You can say to them "I'm a big user and will continue that way"??? Yeah it says that in the first paragraph doesn't it. So someone that streams HD movies all day, or torrents, and knows what he's doing, can continue on his merry way by opting-out? Well I don't get it.I clicked on the link inside their email to their Fair Access Policy and was surprised it referenced a doc from 2012 that says "Satellite" and sho nuff it's zackly like my Hughesnet satellite service. Well almost. 10GB day and 10GB overnight--my sat is 10GB day and 50GB overnight.

imadunatic

join:2013-02-26

Barryton, MI 1 recommendation imadunatic Member TBH, I think even if you don't opt out there probably won't be any fallout, and I would expect at some point if they really wanted to push the issue, they'd just require you accept the new terms in order to continue using their service. My guess is the only reason they add in the opt out clause is because it's required by law.



Johnh

@frontiernet.net 1 recommendation Johnh to PJL

Anon to PJL

In WA, we transitioned from Verizon FIOS to Frontier years ago. I complained to our utilities commission because both companies said nothing would change. Almost overnight we lost DVR access from the internet, all mobile apps, no more caller ID on the TV screen and all hardware/service improvements ceased. While I'm generally happy with the overall service and it is not as expensive as some given the speed and TV channel lineup, I've been very unhappy with the loss of ALL innovation and the terrible customer service. Every time I call about getting an issue fixed, they screw something else up. Once even disabling voicemail and it took over a week to get it fixed. This was in response to me calling about a billing question!



Given the power this updated TOS gives Frontier, I may opt out. Opens the door to data caps and controversial fees (HSI surcharge).

PJL

join:2008-07-24

Long Beach, CA PJL Member said by Johnh : In WA, we transitioned from Verizon FIOS to Frontier years ago. I complained to our utilities commission because both companies said nothing would change. Almost overnight we lost DVR access from the internet, all mobile apps, no more caller ID on the TV screen and all hardware/service improvements ceased. While I'm generally happy with the overall service and it is not as expensive as some given the speed and TV channel lineup, I've been very unhappy with the loss of ALL innovation and the terrible customer service. Every time I call about getting an issue fixed, they screw something else up. Once even disabling voicemail and it took over a week to get it fixed. This was in response to me calling about a billing question!



Given the power this updated TOS gives Frontier, I may opt out. Opens the door to data caps and controversial fees (HSI surcharge).

Fortunately we will not lose existing STB capabilities (like Quantum). I'm sure we'll lose some things, but it's not like we can do anything about it. The apps you mention are now available with Frontier. We'll see what happens with the caller ID, but since we're now digital voice that may not change. I believe when you transitioned DV was not an option.Fortunately we will not lose existing STB capabilities (like Quantum). I'm sure we'll lose some things, but it's not like we can do anything about it.