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[Angel Donovan]: Hey, Jessica. Jessica is fiddling right now and she's welcome to the show anyway.

[Jessica J]: I'm singing in my head.

[Angel Donovan]: That's very cool. It's the first time it's actually happened. Never had anyone fiddling while we start the show. So, it's great. It's a change.

[Jessica J]: Really?

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah, it's awesome. You've got a little beat to go to to start the show off.

[Jessica J]: Yes, loving you got that. That was very intentional.

[Angel Donovan]: Absolutely. So, we like to kick off the show learning a little bit about you so that the guys at home can get to know you. First of all, how old are you? Where do you live and what are you up to in life?

[Jessica J]: Well, how old am I? I'm 29 years old. I live...well, I was born and raised in New Jersey. I now live in Hollywood, California. What was the next question?

[Angel Donovan]: What are you doing with your life?

[Jessica J]: What am I doing with my life? My God, loaded question Angel. I'm basically getting paid to help men get laid very inadvertently. That's what I usually say.

[Angel Donovan]: Excellent. Yeah, everyone likes to put it a different way.

[Jessica J]: Yeah.

[Angel Donovan]: We were just talking about how you got into this way back because, we first connected, I don't know how many years ago? When did you arise on the scene.

[Jessica J]: That was like four years ago. It's not so bad when I arrived on the scene.

[Angel Donovan]: Cool, cool are we allowed to say where you arose in the scene from?

[Jessica J]: I'd rather not but, I will say that it was an instructional pornography company.

[Angel Donovan]: There's not very many of them Guys. You could probably figure it out. Especially, if you look four years back, there were even fewer around.

[Jessica J]: Don't, I don't want to give them anymore hints.

[Angel Donovan]: Well, it's fun. They've got some good programs. You're kind of lucky to have a good start there. It must have been a lot of fun for you. So, what is this about our most popular OKCupid profile in LA of all places. How did that happen because, you were all over the news.

[Jessica J]: I was. I was on Nightline for it. It was cool because, OKCupid hit me up and they're like, "Hey you know based on our algorithm, we found that you have the most visited and messaged profile in Los Angeles and Nightline wants to do a piece on you." I was like, "Oh my god! They like me. They really like me."

[Angel Donovan]: Okay so what I love about this is you're like you're the most popular girl in LA on OKCupid, which is huge because, it's LA as well. To give guys at home an idea of what that means to the poor girl who's the recipient of that position and what does it mean in terms of messages and...?

[Jessica J]: Ok first all, so when Nightline was recording, they sat there and I had my inbox open in front of them and they're like, "Can you show us some of the messages?" It was just like, "Hey girl, DTF." Like, "You're so hot." Like, "Oh my god, I want to give you the d." It was just like hundreds of them and I was so embarrassed. I was like, "I am so sorry. I'm so embarrassed that I can't find any like normal messages."

[Angel Donovan]: I'm embarrassed for humanity.

[Jessica J]: Yeah, that's what they said. They're like, "No, no, no. The men in America should be embarrassed." I was like, "There's got to be something nice in here." But, that's pretty much what it's like to be on the receiving end. It's not like I have men like falling over me. It's like, men virtually trying to stick their wieners at me over and over again.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah, it sounds like you're trying to sift through a really heavily spam...

[Jessica J]: Yeah, yeah.

[Angel Donovan]: ...field folder of email. Like an email program that had no idea how to filter spam which is terrible.

[Jessica J]: Exactly. I was, yeah, I was a human spam filter. But, it's funny because, in that process, I started to find out what caught my attention really quick, what would get me to open a message, what would get me to instantly respond to a guy without even looking at his profile. That's pretty much what I've been able to fine tune and calculate to help other men do themselves. So yeah, all’s well that ends well.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah so, it was a good learning tool. It was a good learning tool. I bet you had some good dates out of it as well?

[Jessica J]: Huh, that's a good question. What I will say this Angel, eventually I got to the point where I was only going on good dates because, then I was just like, "Jessica, stop saying yes to fucking everybody." I would just meet with guys where I was like, "Oh my god, I'm so super stoked to see this dude." So yeah.

[Angel Donovan]: Did you put filters on...I am kind of curious because, I've kind of built my own little system to stop wasting my time on OKCupid which means, I bounce people into other areas and I can filtered them to make sure they're not insane or whatever. It normally means that I allow them to Facebook or something because, people...you can normally tell what someone's like through their Facebook profile.

[Jessica J]: I beg to differ but, that's...I would love to hear more about your filter process. I've never heard of this.

[Angel Donovan]: Oh really?

[Jessica J]: I've never heard of men doing this. Yeah, yeah. Well I mean, you're very studly. So, I'm sure that's why you get to do it but...

[Angel Donovan]: Thank you. That's the first time I've called studly on the show.

[Jessica J]: Yeah, popping some cherries all day with you.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah, no I find just on line dating in general, it's all about filters these days rather than...

[Jessica J]: No, I would definitely agree. I mean because, it's like...to me, it's like being the best bar and the worst bar at the same time. You have so many options. How can you possibly not drive yourself crazy with all those fricking options.

[Angel Donovan]: Excellent, excellent. What would you say you do differently to other coaches in the whole dating, sex and relationship space? What would you say like you like to do different or you feel like you do different?

[Jessica J]: One thing I would say I do different is, first of all I'm very different in that I have a vagina when most other dating coaches don't. That's just the reality of it and another thing I have is a therapy background where I actually implement therapy tools.

A lot of the stuff that I've found other coaches and gurus using is, "Okay, we're going teach you how to this and how do this and how to do this." It's very performance-based so to speak.

So, you have to do this skill right and do that skill right when really, I hone back to, "Okay, what do you actually want for yourself? What do you want for yourself? What's working for you? What's not working for you? What's the end goal? Where are you starting and let's find out how to take those steps there."

[Angel Donovan]: Cool, that does sound pretty different to the stuff that is most out there. So, I guess is that more time intensive?

[Jessica J]: I wouldn't even say it's more time intensive because, I'm not having them memorize certain behaviors or certain patterns so to speak. It's really like, "Ok, let's actually talk about what you want. You say you want this hot girl but, that hot girl is talking to you like you're a piece of shit. Do you really enjoy that?" They're like, "Well actually no. I don't like being talked to like I'm a piece of shit." It's like, "Okay, so let's start there."

[Angel Donovan]: So, it sounds like you start with some kind of therapy session? Is that like a 30-minute or something like that?

[Jessica J]: A little bit. I mean, to me one of my biggest issues with the industry is guys hear that they have to be the asshole. So, they try to be the asshole. They find out that doesn't work.

Then, they're like, "Ok, well I have to be the nice guy." They try to be the nice guy that sure as hell doesn't work. I'm sure you know this and then, everybody comes to realize as they get older and mature that you have to be yourself but, nobody knows how the hell to do that.

So, what I do is find out who the hell you are aside from any other man out there so you can get a woman looking at you like you are unlike any other man out there. Does that make sense Angel?

[Angel Donovan]: That makes perfect sense to me. No, I think that will make sense for everyone at home and it is a unique approach that we haven't discussed on here before. So thank you for that.

Of course, there are a bunch of myths around dating, sex and relationships, right? What would you say is the biggest myth and the one that hurts people most? Like, it could be the one that comes up most for you in your client or it could be just like the one that annoys you the most when you see it.

[Jessica J]: I think I already touched on it a little bit. This idea that they have to be a certain way. They have to do a certain thing and if you do it right, every girl's going to want you. It feeds into this mentality of, "I have to be perfect for every girl and since every girl's different, I have to be able to change based on what every woman wants."

That's so needy and I call those guys "the dogs", like doing tricks for treats when, really it's about you getting what you want and who you want and that's one of the biggest myth is that you have conform to what every woman wants. How can you possibly know what every woman wants. Fuck it, go after what you want. You know what I mean?

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah, it sounds like a good recipe to become schizophrenic. If you're trying to be someone else...

[Jessica J]: Yes!

[Angel Donovan]: ...someone different every like couple of minutes of the day or every couple of minutes in the club, that would be pretty intense.

[Jessica J]: Yeah, oh my god it's intense. Then, these guys get so down on themselves. Like, "Fuck, it didn't work with that woman." What about these other chicks and what do you want with that woman anyway?

[Angel Donovan]: Right, right. I do agree. A lot of guys actually lose themselves when they've been studying too much of this advice and especially if they've been studying advice from like twenty different people, they do get these kind of pretty confused and they're not sure what's working and what's not and who they are anymore.

[Jessica J]: It's really funny because he, bless his heart, he'll probably listen to this because, he's obsessed with like getting every product, every fricking...he's been on every boot camp known to man which is fine but, one of the things we do is...he'll be like, "I really want to text her." I'll be like, "What do you want to say?" He's like, "I want to tell her that I hope you're still alive and I want to put in your butt."

Like, that's hilarious. Just say that and he's just like, "Really?" It's so funny to be able to see his reaction to his own stuff he puts out there. He's like, "I really want to say this. I really want to do this." Like, what if you did it and it's, "Oh, I don't know." Then he tries it and he has a blast. So, you can sit there and try to do what everybody else is telling you to do or you can really ask yourself, "Fuck, what do I want to do?"

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah, that's great. Yeah, teaching men to be men again. So, we're going to talk about being selfish today. Alright?

[Jessica J]: Okay, I love that.

[Angel Donovan]: But, let's put a different spin on this to start with. Why is it important for a guy to be a leader or a decision maker with women or if you don't think it's important, tell me?

[Jessica J]: No, I think it's absolutely important but, I think the words around it are just so...everybody hears that word and they're like, "Well, I don't know what that fricking means," and they equate leader with like, "Yeah, what does that mean? It means I have to be an asshole and I have to tell her what to do," which isn't the case.

I think it's synonymous with confidence. It's like everyone’s, "Oh, I've got to be confident." Like, nobody really knows what it looks like but, I think the reason it's important for you to be a leader or for men to be leaders is that we want to know that somebody's got his shit handled.

That's really what I see being a leader. Like, you're a leader in your own life. You know what you want. You have your shit handled because, if you are that sure of yourself, I can lean on you to be the man for me.

I usually go into evolutionary psychology where us women, if we're going to put out, we might get pregnant and that's nine months that we're sitting on our ass hoping a bear doesn't bite our heads off. So, if I know that you can hold your own in your life, I will feel that much secure in letting you into mine.

[Angel Donovan]: That's great. That's a great way to put it. What does it mean, "having your shit together"? Just for like guys at home...

[Jessica J]: Yeah, yeah.

[Angel Donovan]: If you could put a few more details to that.

[Jessica J]: I'm so glad you said that because, that's very...yeah, what the hell does that mean either? Shit together is, I want to know that you know exactly what you want. You're living for yourself. You have no qualms about going after what you want and being okay with that.

This is going back to what I was saying earlier. A lot of guys will be like, "Oh well, you know she wants this so, I'm going to do that," or "Most women really like this so, I'm going do that," but is that what you want? Is that what you want to be doing? Maybe you want to sit home and eat Cheetos all day and rub your crotch while you play Call of Duty. If that's what you want and you're owning it, I'm going to look at you and be like, "Okay, I dig it. What can I do to be a part of that man's life?"

[Angel Donovan]: So, what does feel like from a girl's perspective? You kind of like hinted at it there but, if you were to like, say from a girl's perspective, why is it so important for the guy to be making decisions and own his shit?

[Jessica J]: Okay, I hate this answer that I'm going give but, as a woman it's the only realistic one I can give. I don't want to sit there and be making the decisions for us. I'm not saying all the decisions. I want to know that I can lean on you when shit hits the fan. Does that make sense?

[Angel Donovan]: So, it doesn't necessarily mean that you don't want to make decisions. It just means...

[Jessica J]: No, no, no that doesn't. I picture myself knowing that anytime I turn the corner, there might be three men there and as woman, I will always be afraid of that. I will always be afraid, "What's going to happen? What are they going to want from me? Am I going to make it out of this alive?"

That is just an inherent female fear and it sucks. We are just the more vulnerable race of the two of us and I want to know that my man can hold his own. I don't need you to go ninja status but, I need to know that I can look to you and be like, "Alright, do you got me because, I might be able to get me but, if you've got me, that's cool."

[Angel Donovan]: I'm sure a lot of guys at home are thinking this. Does that mean I have to be big and muscly?

[Jessica J]: No that is not...

[Angel Donovan]: The guy has to be big and muscly to you and like...

[Jessica J]: No.

[Angel Donovan]: ...and do karate.

[Jessica J]: No, I just said it. You don't even need ninja skills. It's more of a...

[Angel Donovan]: Is it that he's able to keep his cool and sort a situation out? Like he's able to deal with situations as they arrive without turning to you and like kind of going...

[Jessica J]: Yeah.

[Angel Donovan]: ..."Hey, what should we do because, I'm a bit freaking out here and I don't know what to do."

[Jessica J]: Yeah, I've had boyfriends like this and I can remember every, every single moment with a man I've dated or was seeing or talking to or who's my boyfriend where, they look to me and I've been like, "Well, do something." I'm like, "What do you mean we'll do something?" and it's a weird inherent trigger in me that says, "Oh shit. This is not a man I can lean on."

[Angel Donovan]: Right because he's being passive in that instant because, he's anxious and he doesn't know what to do.

[Jessica J]: Yeah, and I'm going to follow your lead. That's just...that's...like I said, I didn't want to answer this in this way but, we will look to you when it comes to the primal stuff that we all, you know what I mean? That we all have inherent in us.

[Angel Donovan]: Right. So, they like to see that you're able to kind of handle normal situations, basically?

[Jessica J]: Yes, normal would be nice.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah, normal is always good.

[Jessica J]: No bears biting my head off. You know, we'll get to that later.

[Angel Donovan]: Okay, so for the typical guy (because, you've been in coaching for a while now), what would you say the situation is when it comes to this context in terms of being able to lead, being a decision maker in this kind of situation? The guys who come to you, what would you say the typical situation is because, I'm sure it's quite pretty reflective of the audience as well? So, they'll be able to relate to that.

[Jessica J]: Right, the typical situation is men who say something like, "You know, I really don't know how to talk to women. I feel like every time I try, I might say something stupid or that like I don't say the right thing" and it's just this air of putting themselves in the passenger seat which is what I like to say.

So, they'll drive up in the car and they'll get out and they'll sit in the passenger seat and they'll look to her and be like, "Okay, where are you going to take us." So, that's where this loss of control comes from where they don't know what to say to handle the situation. They want to say the perfect thing but, at the same time, they want to make sure that she likes him and it's just so like far gone to them performing right.

Whereas, you might sit there and she might pretty but, she might be a meth addict for all you know. Why don't we scale back and see if you even like what she has to say the second you open your mouth. You might not.

[Angel Donovan]: Right, right. When you were saying that, I was thinking, it sounds like he's not able to be proactive. He's not being proactive just about conversation. Like you were talking about conversation in terms of any decision.

[Jessica J]: Right.

[Angel Donovan]: I mean, it's kind of like a small decision to say, open your mouth and say something, right? But, it's still a tiny like decision. Like, "I'm going to say this."

[Jessica J]: Yeah, yeah. Well, something as small as, "Open your mouth to find out what you want." Going back to, "Do you even want to talk to her after this?" She might be very mean. She might be very retarded based on what you find attractive. You're not going to know unless you can sit there and ask yourself, "Okay, what do I want first? First things first, I think she's attractive. Let me start a conversation with her. See if I can even carry a conversation with this girl."

[Angel Donovan]: Right. So, what you're saying is like, most of the people you come across there, they're putting the girl first straight away without really thinking about it.

[Jessica J]: Right away. They're like, "How do I impress her?"

[Angel Donovan]: They've got the visual image and they're like, "I like the visual image now it's..."

[Jessica J]: Right exactly. "Let me see what she wants and how do I be that?" Then, they'll get in their heads and be like, "Oh shit. What if I'm not what she wants?" First things first Buddy, sure you like how she looks but, it's about you getting who you want and she may not be it.

9 times out of 10, that's my favorite thing to hear from guys is, they'll start a conversation with a super-hot and they'll be like, "Yeah, she was kind of weird or she talked too much or she barely talked and I want a really bubbly girl." You know what I mean? You're going to find, you're going to start your filter process from there but, not until you sit down and ask yourself what you're looking for as opposed to what is she looking for?

[Angel Donovan]: That's great, great. So, where does this connect with being more selfish? How could we look at this of being more selfish or should we? You know, you can still me it makes no sense.

[Jessica J]: No, no. I love that you use the word selfish because, everybody wants to be nice. You know what I mean? Which is a wonderful, beautiful thing and when people hear selfish, you're like, "No, I'm a really great guy. I'm a nice guy. I'm not that kind of guy." That's something I'll hear a lot from my clients. "Wait, I'm not that kind of guy."

You don't have to be that kind of guy, the asshole with no regard for other people but, you have to at least own what you want and what you're looking for because, if you have fricking idea, how are you going to go out and get it? So, I think that's where the concept of selfish is a good thing because, if you don't even know like what you're looking for, if you can't be selfish enough to say, "Wait a minute, what do I want out of this and I fricking deserve it. So, let me get it." If you can't say that, you're going constantly fall victim to other people letting you know whether or not you make the cut.

[Angel Donovan]: So, would you say that guys...what I think is that guys actually don't know what a selfish line is in a lot of cases. I dare to think we use this word and people think like they're selfish, right?

So, a guy in this context goes out on a date with a girl. Normally, he's a little bit anxious, nervous about it. So, he's putting the selfish line too far away from him or is it too near him? Right? So, he's not taking...it's too new here. I'm sorry I slipped up there. So, it's too near him because, he's not taking a lot of actions outside of his small circle because, he feels like he would be overstepping his boundaries. Does that make sense to you?

My ideas here is like I think maybe guys should be a little bit more selfish. It's actually not being selfish but, they should think of being a little bit more selfish and it would kind of reset them to more normal boundaries with the girl, a girl he's only just met.

[Jessica J]: Right. It's funny you mentioned that. Well, as you're mentioning that, I'm thinking of a client who, he went on a date and he came back and he called me. He's like, "I don't get it. Like, I did everything right. Like, I talked, I touched her, I made her laugh, I was like flirty, this, that and the other. She was just unreceptive like crossing her arms the entire time, pulling out her cell phone and looking at it. I don't understand what I did wrong?"

I was like, "Who says you did anything wrong? Say you did everything perfectly right and this was the type of girl she is. Yes or no, is that the type of girl you'd want to spend your money on again?"

[Angel Donovan]: So I really want to ask you, what would tell him to do in this situation if he was to deal with a situation?

[Jessica J]: Okay, here's the thing. When he came home and said this to me, that's exactly what I asked him. I was like, "If this is exactly what this girl is like and you feel like you did everything right and you were super down with how you were reacting, what would make you want to spend your time and money on this girl one more time?"

He's like, "Well, I wouldn't." Like, "Alright then, that's fine." He's said, "But, she's got a great job and she's gorgeous." You know what I mean? I was like, "That does not make a perfect woman for you."

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah, yeah absolutely. I've come across this situation. Actually, it's very common in Asia where girls are addicted to cell phones.

[Jessica J]: Okay.

[Angel Donovan]: It's something I think some of the guys learn in Shanghai and places like this. If a girl starts doing that...another way I used to tackle it...because, all the girls will do it at some point especially if you're giving them attention. It would be like their kind of backup plan for a few minutes. So, you just ask her what she's doing and say, "You don't like text when you're hanging out," and stuff like that. You just kind of like challenge her on it. Is that something you would...was a good thing to do?

[Jessica J]: I think that's a beautiful thing to do because, what I'm picturing is one, "You're not letting me act a fucking fool on our date" and two, you're sitting there right there with me. So, you're not accusing me of anything. You're not like, "Okay well, let me pull out my phone." You were staying there with me and you are able to guide the interaction back to us.

So it's like, if we were sitting here and you pull out your phone...you know what I mean? There you go and I'm like, "Hey, what are you looking at? Show me." Now, now it becomes about us again whereas, you may have severed the tide but, I re-engaged it and if you can keep doing that with a woman, she'll appreciate it and that goes back to you being a leader when you and I are sitting together.

[Angel Donovan]: Right, you're proactive and you dealt with it. I said earlier, it doesn't mean like that that situation could come up and it doesn't mean that the girl's really bad all the time. I've actually seen where the girl's been like, "Oh yeah, I'm sorry" and she put it away and she'll turn out to be a pretty cool person.

For whatever, the situation was set up wrong and she started texting or whatever. It could have been your fault for not being proactive with conversation for instance and she's like, "I don't know what to do. I'm going to start texting my friends." Who knows?

[Jessica J]: Exactly, I mean we're all glued to our phones. It's kind of hard seeing...now, I see all these fricking Instagram likes but, we're so glued to our phone that to me, it's a habit to constantly pick up my phone and if I lose my attention for one second with you, that's what I'll do.

I'll pick up my phone. I'll look at the time. If I see something and like, I have texts, it's all about you being proactive as you say, to lead me back. Lead me back. If you lead me there, I will follow.

[Angel Donovan]: Excellent. One of the things that is worrying about saying, telling guys to be a bit more selfish is that there's obviously a line between being more selfish and doing things for themselves like taking decisions for themselves. Like you were saying earlier, there's this asshole line, right? There's this line that you go beyond and you start being more of an asshole if you're not considering others. So, I think this is really the struggle when we give guys this advice. Like, "Be your own man. Make your own decisions. Be a leader." They're like, "Where's that line?" and often I think they fall shy of it because, they're concerned about that line.

But, there are cases, as you said where you can go over and you can be an asshole. How would a guy know, how does he get in the in between middle ground? How does he know he's not like...is there some kind of rule he can use and say, "Oh, I'm not becoming an asshole"?

[Jessica J]: I think a good rule of thumb is "Am I thinking about her?" So, it would be one thing for you to live your life but, if I'm not part of it and you still have no idea that the point was to start incorporating me into your life, that's when you become the asshole.

That's why assholes will always start off like...that's why women will always love the assholes because, "Oh, look. He's got this great life I get to be a part of it," but they start hating him because, he never opens up his life for her. That's one thing to take into account. Are you not opening your life to her because, "Fuck her. Like, it's my life," or are you actually making a point to do it because, that's the point of fricking dating and meeting women and letting them in your life.

[Angel Donovan]: I guess that made sense to me more in a context of a relationship. So, you're bringing her into your life and making more of a team, I guess. Does that fit with what you were saying?

[Jessica J]: Yeah, yeah.

[Angel Donovan]: I mean, I've really liked that with girlfriends. Like sometimes I'll talk about, "Hey, we're a team." You know, joke about it a bit but, you know it's actually kind of a cool thing to be a team against the world whatever you're going through at the time.

[Jessica J]: Absolutely, I mean what's dating for? Are you doing it just to like get mad poon? If that's the case, go ahead and be a selfish asshole. Like as long as you keep the poon coming, that's fine but, if you really are dating to find somebody, you need to take that somebody into account.

[Angel Donovan]: Okay, so they just have like keep their feelings in mind?

[Jessica J]: Yeah.

[Angel Donovan]: I think you can understand from...if you try and put yourself in your shoes. Most of the time, it's just like a respect or something. Most of it comes down to that, right?

[Jessica J]: Right, I mean I always said, "Think about you first." So, I say, me, you and us. I call it the trusting triangle. As long as you can keep those three things in mind and consistently put yourself first in a way that, I hate saying being true to yourself but, that's really it in a nutshell. You putting yourself first, you not have to sacrifice any piece of you, not asking her to do the same and then compromising, you should be okay. You will okay.

[Angel Donovan]: Excellent. Let's dive into some practical examples. In some scenarios that guys might have come across before.

[Jessica J]: Okay.

[Angel Donovan]: So, of course, there's the dreaded approaching a girl or just meeting a girl in some place. We've been talking about a few concepts about leading, taking decisions and being proactive. We used a lot of different vocabulary here but, basically, getting you guys at home to be more forward in your relationships, a bit more dominant, a bit more leader because, it works well with women.

So, there are a few very normal situations that guys get stuck at with women, right? These are like approaching a girl, meeting a girl for the first time. Can we apply these ideas we've been talking about to that situation and help him approach easier or have that approach come off better?

[Jessica J]: One thing I like to say is that I think being selfish is absolutely necessary just to knock a fricking approach out of the part because, as far as I'm concerned as a woman, if you approach me in a way that any other guys has, my filtered system will kick. It's the reason a lot of girls will be polite because, that's what we are told to do. Be polite. Other girls are so angry with being polite, that they'll tell you off at first or ignore you.

I have a girlfriend that, bless her fricking heart, she'll throw her drink in any guys face just because, maybe she felt like it that night and it's always at least once a night but, it's never anything crazy. That's just how she is.

But, if at first you can separate yourself from any other man that's approaching me and you can say something that nobody else can say, I will immediately turn my attention to you. Because why? Because, I was not able to filter you out the same way I did the other guys.

[Angel Donovan]: Right, you got past the automatic filter.

[Jessica J]: Yes, made it past.

[Angel Donovan]: Which we'd all like to make all the time and we have to screen stuff out when things get busy in his life. Great, so just being unique and I guess what you're saying there is like, at least it's something that really comes from him instead of something that's he's picked up elsewhere from other people in the world, from media, wherever. It's more likely to get through just because it's going to be unique.

[Jessica J]: Yeah, well okay. So here's what I always say Angel. What's the one thing, all of us have in common? I have it in common with you. You have it in common with my mother. My mother has it in common with your best friend. What is the one thing we all have in common?

[Angel Donovan]: You're looking for...this is going to be really random. We are humans.

[Jessica J]: Yes, nobody ever gets that. We're humans. We have human experience. We all came here the same way. We're all going out the same way, right? Okay so, what is the one thing we are all interested in first and foremost.

[Angel Donovan]: Well, according to evolutionary biology, this would be having sex and making other humans.

[Jessica J]: No! Why does every man answer with that? No, that is not in the interest of every person on the planet.

[Angel Donovan]: Every person in the planet? Okay, give it to me. What are you thinking of? Connecting? Connecting with people?

[Jessica J]: No.

[Angel Donovan]: No?

[Jessica J]: No, ourselves. We are all inherently interested first and foremost in ourselves.

[Angel Donovan]: Ah, okay.

[Jessica J]: So, here's the thing. If you come up to me and you say something about yourself that no other man can say...Angel you could say something like, "Oh my god. I talked to this Brown chick today and she blew my mind because, she's the most hilarious person I've talked to today." If you say something so personal about your thoughts, your feelings, your experiences in your life, what you're doing is you're making possible for me to connect to you.

If you're talking about your experience because, why? Because it's the one thing you and I already have in common and if you talk about your experience and I can relate to it, now this conversation becomes about me and if it becomes about me, I become interested in you.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah, so it's an easy way to be selfish. Just absolutely think about yourself and put whatever you're feeling out there.

[Jessica J]: Exactly...well even so, here's the thing. That's the one thing...

[Angel Donovan]: You can talk about having a really crap day and get away with it?

[Jessica J]: Yeah, yeah.

[Angel Donovan]: As long as you do it with a smirk on your face.

[Jessica J]: Sure, a smirk and not a knife in your hand.

[Angel Donovan]: Right, right.

[Jessica J]: I mean, it's one thing that no other man will be able to talk to me about is your personal experiences.

[Angel Donovan]: How many...it's actually an interesting thing. Have you met many Parisians? This is kind of random but, let's go with it.

[Jessica J]: That's so funny you mentioned that because, I was just in Paris for 10 days.

[Angel Donovan]: Cool, yeah. Did you like it?

[Jessica J]: I'm obsessed with it. I want to move there, actually.

[Angel Donovan]: Oh cool. I lived there for quite a few years.

[Jessica J]: Oh, nice.

[Angel Donovan]: And I've got a lot of other friends from Paris however, I would say something about the culture. They do like to complain. It's just kind of like a thing in Paris.

[Jessica J]: Do they?

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah, so I actually experienced like something you've been alluding to where one of my friends (he was actually really good with women, just kind of natural at it, he's from Paris) and he often used to complain and women used to suck it up and they used to really like it. This is like 10 years ago for me. I didn't really get it. I was like, "He's just kind of bitching about stuff. What's going on?"

[Jessica J]: That is live. He's bitching and moaning.

[Angel Donovan]: What is attracting girls to him for that reason. So, I've kind of seen that situation where it's even been negative and it still worked out but, I have to say, he had good energy. It was kind of like, "Man, I hate this weather," but he still had good energy about it so, it was working.

[Jessica J]: Well, you know what? That's still...you complaining is still getting the insight into your life and that's something that I'm not getting from anywhere else.

[Angel Donovan]: Excellent. Okay so, when you're going on a date with a girl, how can selfish work out for you?

[Jessica J]: How can selfishness work out for you?

[Angel Donovan]: How should you use being selfish as a way to make the date go better?

[Jessica J]: Here's a really interesting story from a client of mine who's actually in Manchester? Is that anywhere near you? I know he's British. That's all I know.

[Angel Donovan]: It's up there somewhere. I've never been there. I've heard about it. They have different accents up there.

[Jessica J]: They do! It's a very different accent than what you bring to the table today. So, he was telling me...he's hilarious. Every time I'm on the phone with him, he has me laughing my ass off and then, he tells me about these dates he goes on. He's sitting there and he's like, "Oh, it's all boring Jessica. It's so boring. I just sit there. Ask her what she likes and she doesn't really talk and I ask about her career."

I was like, "Let me ask something." He makes a lot of...he jokes a lot. He's really wild, very vibrant, you know talks with his hands a lot. I asked him, "How often are you communicating like this on your dates?" He's like, "Why would I do that? I would embarrass them?" I was like, "How would you embarrass them?"

He's like, "Because nobody like the loud obnoxious guy who's talking about himself, talking, you know what I mean, talking his ass off and like waving his arms around." I was like, "Says who?" He was like, "Well, you know I was taught that. I was taught that I'm supposed to be on my best behavior when it comes to meeting women."

So, I was like, "Okay, you're sitting there trying to make them so comfortable but, you're robbing them of the experience of meeting you and I don't want to go on a date to meet a fricking polite guy when everybody in the world it polite. That's not what dates are for. I want to know what makes you different than any other man before and any other man that's going to come after you." If you're not selfish in a way that you are talking the way you want to talk or saying what you want to say or getting what you want out of this, if you're not doing all that, then you're just going to fade into the background and into the filter system just like everybody else like you're supposed to.

[Angel Donovan]: Yep, yep, yep absolutely and the worst thing is like I think that a lot of the guys who like would do this on a date would also probably do this with their friends, right? They would kind of be like more toned down. I know that more often than not, they're going to open up a bit more but, even sometimes, they're not kind of like letting loose, like kind of being selfish and taking the space of talking for a while. I've seen this dynamic in groups of guys before and the guy who's kind of like, how would you say, leading the path for other people to talk all the time tends to be the guy who's getting all these girls.

[Jessica J]: Yeah, yeah, that's definitely the case.

[Angel Donovan]: So, can you come down to like being selfish about like, I want to take some of that talk space up.

[Jessica J]: Yeah, take up that talk space or even so, if you throw in a little jab every now and then like, "I feel fat in this shirt." You know how I feel like, "What the hell did that guy just say?"

[Angel Donovan]: Just something nice and random.

[Jessica J]: Right, you don't need to lead the fricking conversation and be like the loudest guy in the group but, if you tell me something about you that no other guy in the group can say, you know, I'll be like, "Oh, okay. What's this guy about?"

[Angel Donovan]: Excellent. Let's get on to a few more higher stress situations for guys here. Wanting to go home with a girl. I'm on a date. It's going well because, I've been selfish and I want to go home with her. I'm thinking like, "It's 11:00. It's time to take her home." How should I be more selfish about this to make it work?

[Jessica J]: Well, I love that you're asking this question because, I've worked with so many pick up students. There's just so much strategy around it. There's so much fricking strategy. I remember I was on call with one student and he was like, "Well, I don't understand like I..." or he was like really excited. He's like, "I handled her [inaudible]. She even called all her friends and her brother to try and get them to like to talk to me to bring her home but, I just didn't bring her home. I just made sure I brought her to my house."

I'm like, "Oh my god. That girl thought she was going to get raped," and I was like, "That just an awful thing. That's an awful position to put a woman in." He was like, "Yeah, don't get that." He's like, "I remember." He's like, "As soon as we opened the door, she jumped my bones." I was like, "Yeah because, she doesn't want to get murdered. She wants to make sure she puts out to get out."

That's what I tell guys. Like, I'm not embarrassed to say that I've put so many fricking times Angel just to be able to get myself out of the situation.

[Angel Donovan]: Right, oh so you put out a few times to get yourself out of a situation that you didn't like, you were a bit scared of and you're just like, "I'll just do this..."

[Jessica J]: "Just take it. Take the vajay. Let's get out of here." And you know what?

[Angel Donovan]: Cool, that's interesting. Yeah.

[Jessica J]: Yeah, yeah cool [inaudible] and every time I tell to this to guys, my girlfriends will sit there and be like, "Mm-hmm. Yep, we do it. Yep, we do it." But, that's just the reality of it.

So, when it comes to taking a girl home, "I want to know that you want me, first of all and you can't make qualms about it. I have to know that you want me because, that is going to make me see you as a sexual being but, I don't want you to force me into anything I don't want to do."

You know, so if sit there and you're like, "Come on, let's go home. Come on, let's go home" and I'm like, "No, I got to work in the morning." You're like, "Oh my god, everybody has to work in the morning." Now, I'm going to feel you're not respecting my resistance but, if you go with it, you're like, "Yeah, you know. Fuck, you're going to have to go home. That sucks. Let's just go home." I'd be like, "Well, wait. Don't you like me? I thought you liked me." You know what I mean?

I always say go with the resistance. It's going to be the fastest way to getting what you want and if you want to take a girl home, first you go to show that you even want her. I don't want you to play these games like, "Oh, you know, we should go back to my house. You know, I got like a Digiorno pizza." Like, "I don't...okay, I don't feel like eating."

[Angel Donovan]: Okay, so how should a guy approach this? How should he make you know that he wants to take you home? He likes you.

[Jessica J]: Yeah, if we're feeling each other and you don't make a move like when I meet you before you take me home then, I'm going...it's going to be that much more difficult to get me to come home.

[Angel Donovan]: You mean, like going for a kiss?

[Jessica J]: Yeah, going for a kiss. I would say definitely going for the kiss. If you don't go for the kiss, it's going to be hard to get her to come home. So, you have to go for it and from there, it will be that much easier and that much more clear that, "Okay, cool. This guy actually wants me and he has no problem wanting me. Let's go so I can do this."

Because I feel like so many guys are afraid to be proactive...now that bottle and that word is stuck in my head but, so many guys are so afraid to put themselves out there but, we want you to want us. You know what I mean? I'm wearing these fricking stilettos and this fine ass dress and all this makeup so you can sit there and not tell me that you want me.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah, a lot of guys are definitely afraid of showing their interest but, it's absolutely key. If you don't show it then, you're not going anywhere ever. So, you've got to let it out. So, it's being selfish. It's just like, "I feel like kissing her right now. I'm just going to kiss her. I'm just going to lean over and kiss her."

[Jessica J]: I was with this guy and I just met him that night but, oh my god, he had no problem kissing me and then, he's like, "Okay, now we're going back to my room." I was like, "I don't want to go back to your room." He was like, "Oh that sucks" and he just like went and I was like, "I guess I'm going to go." Like to me it was...he was like, "Alright, fine. You don't want to go. That's fine. I'm going to go to bed anyway." I was like, "Wait, I'm coming with you."

I was like, he was chasing me out of this deal. I was like, "Wait, you're supposed to try really hard to try to fuck me" but, he had no problem saying, "Okay, if you want to go home that's cool. Like, the taxis, you know where the taxi stand is." I'm like, "Damn." Like he had enough balls to walk away from it and it made me want him that much more because, no doesn't necessarily mean never and that's something I think a lot of guys need to understand.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah, it's often the case with girls actually, especially where it...I guess the situation you've been talking about is where a girl's not comfortable yet. She like hasn't figured you out is often the resistance. I mean, you might as well as call it resistance, right? There's a bit of resistance there but, it's often she's not quite ready, whatever move you put on her. So, you don't have to take it as rejection. You just have to hold back a bit.

[Jessica J]: You know what? I will say that no woman wants to believe that she's that easily won. It's just we don't.

[Angel Donovan]: That's true.

[Jessica J]: You never want to believe that. So, I will say no a couple times before...I'm like, "Alright.."

[Angel Donovan]: Just a couple?

[Jessica J]: Just a couple. We just always will. No woman wants to be like, "Yeah, totally." Why? Because, we know the second you get it, we might hear from you tomorrow and then, a while and then, we're going to feel like shit. It's like, "Damn, this could have been any fricking whole and he would have been fine." But, we want to know that you pick us out of any other woman you met that night and you want to go home with us. That's really all it is.

[Angel Donovan]: It comes back to, you just have to show the girl that you actually are interested, right? I've noticed actually recently that...I've noticed many years ago in Asia. When I was in Asia, I would date a girl and then, I wouldn't see her for a while and I would meet her up for the second date and she would come kind of dressed down.

At first, I was like, "Why is she kind of dressed down? She's not making any effort. The first time I saw her she was looking really hot and you know, I was like wow. Now, I'm kind of confused because now, she was a like an 8 or whatever (on a 1-10 scale for the hell of it) and now, she's a 6.5. So, now she's got me all like you know, I don't know where I stand and maybe she thinks I'm a friend or something.

It turned out that this was really just exactly what you're saying. They wanted me to want them and they wanted to be sure that I wanted them for the right reasons. So, it was this clear pattern after all. It's like they were all dressing down. It's obviously because, they all come back home with me. So something's going on like it means basically...I was like, "Oh, she's dressed down. She wants to come home with me." It was kind of counterintuitive but, it was actually this thing that they wanted to know that you really were into them.

[Jessica J]: Yeah, here's the thing. I want you to see me in my fricking sweats with no makeup on, my hair in a bun and I want you to still look at me that like, "Holy shit. I would do anything to fuck her."

[Angel Donovan]: Which is real life.

[Jessica J]: Yeah, yeah exactly. I like that. It's funny a lot of guys will say like, "Oh my god, she dressed down. That means, she thinks we're friends." No, that's not really it. I mean, we'll throw so many fricking hoops out there. We just want to know that like you're going to come after us and it's going get us even hotter when you do.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah, or is it the classic just never start texting or phoning you and expecting the guy to do it right? That's just classic. That's like waiting for the guy to come and show his interest.

[Jessica J]: We do! Yeah, yeah, we just want to know you want us. Come on.

[Angel Donovan]: Oh maybe you're just getting so many texts, you don't have time to like practically text on your own.

[Jessica J]: Maybe. Maybe it's that.

[Angel Donovan]: Who knows? Okay, so let's talk about another one. In sex, like should guys be more selfish in sex? Is this something they should think about or do you think that that's an area where selfishness doesn't really come into play?

[Jessica J]: That's a really...yes. I have a great story for this actually. So, I hooked up with this dude for the first time and there's no other way for me to say it other than to say that I could tell this guy had maybe gone through all these instructional porno because...

[Angel Donovan]: From the company you used to work for? You like her? Remember this video.

[Jessica J]: Smooth. I taught this move. I could just tell because, he seemed...he didn't really seem in the moment and his [inaudible] like, "I'm going to do this things and she's going to like love it." I remember, I had to like look at him in the middle of us having sex. I'd be like, "Please stop fucking like you're trying to prove something."

You can sit there and you know, a lot of guys think, "Oh, as long as I'm really giving and it's all about her," but like no. I'm here too. I'm here to please you too. If you're not here enjoying in your own pleasure, it's going feel very one-sided. I'm going to feel like you know, a test, like a math test. I don't want to feel like a math test. Not during sex.

[Angel Donovan]: That's a great example because, there are obviously a lot of cool programs out there which teach guys some more ideas about sex. Let's say they've got some relatively narrow ideas about sex and what they should be doing, especially when they're younger. You know, early 20s. Then, I think some of those videos can be pretty useful to give them like, "Ah, these are the kinds of things that people do," right?

When they start looking at it from as you said, it's basically a performance. They're like, "Oh, I have to give this girl like five orgasms before she leaves and I've got to go through this routine to do it.

[Jessica J]: "I found this routine!"

[Angel Donovan]: Then you know, you forget like what it's all about and you're not actually there in the moment and I think girls can feel that right? They, like you're saying, it's just like...

[Jessica J]: Oh, we feel it. God, we feel it, yes!

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah, she wants you to be more of an animal in touch with yourself and that's what's...being selfish in bed is about being an animal.

[Jessica J]: Yes!

[Angel Donovan]: And just being in touch with yourself and really enjoying. Then, she'll enjoy. Of course, you have to be sensitive to what's going on with her at the same time but...

[Jessica J]: I mean, it's about being there. Sex...that that's the last thing that should be mechanical. You know, that's the last thing that you can get, you should get into your head about. If at the end of the day, you just ask yourself, "Okay, what am I into?" and look at her and see, "Okay, what is she into right now?" That's the best you could do as far as I am concerned. You can do no wrong.

[Angel Donovan]: Absolutely and you have to take chances in sex, right? Sometimes, you'll like, "I kind of want to flip her over. You know, I want to do anything" and I think some guys would be like, "Oooo, I'm not so...you can't like just flip her over. I can't do whatever."

You have to take these chances and if you feel like it do it. It's probably going to work because, honestly a lot of the time, the natural stuff works better if you feel it and I feel like, it's guys resisting their nature that causes a lot of the problems.

[Jessica J]: Yeah and here's the thing, if you're not having like the time of your life, I'm going to sense it. You know, I'm sitting right here looking and if you're not being about yourself and like having the time of your life, then I'm going to be like, "Ah, shit. Like, I'm not having the time of mine either." It takes two to really get great as much as it takes two people to have really bad sex.

[Angel Donovan]: Absolutely. Okay, relationships. Should we be selfish in relationships?

[Jessica J]: This one's harder because, now it becomes your life joining with someone else's life. This is where "us" really comes into play. I mean, you could sit here all day and say like, "No, I want to have my life and she gets to have her life," but if you guys aren't' coming to make something better than your individual lives you have together, then really, what's the point? You might as well just sit by yourself and jerk off all day in the corner. Why be in a relationship? It's about compromise.

[Angel Donovan]: I love the way you...

[Jessica J]: What did you say?

[Angel Donovan]: I love the way you put that. It's a great way to put it. Okay, so in relationships here, I'll throw something out here and see if you can relate to this. I think I'm relatively selfish in relationships. So, I tend to be obsessive/compulsive disorder when it comes to my work or whatever else I'm up to at that time.

So, whatever project I'm on to, I'll be really into. I'm just working on it and I don't like to be disturbed. I'm committed to it. I want to make it work and whatever, I just want to make it work. I want to make it a success. That's what guys do. That's what we love to do. We like to create stuff in the world and just make them happen.

If a girl comes in to interrupt me all the time or something, I'd be like, "Hey, not now. Like, this is my work time. You know, I'll see you later tonight, right?"

So some guys, I'm sure at home, they're thinking, "That's pretty selfish. Like, you should be like if she comes in and she wants like something from you, you should be like, 'Oh, hey Baby. What's up?' You know?"

You've got to be doing your own stuff in life and as you said...I think that's where you become number one in relationships as well. You've always been number one throughout your life. You're always going to have to at the end of the day live up to what your life was. What you did in your life and sure, it can be looking after your girlfriend and so on but, you know, if you kind of let go of all of your goals and whatever it was about you that you wanted to do in life, that's not going to be good.

So, that's kind of my example from mine. I end up like putting a circle around my work or whatever I'm up to at the time and saying, "You know, this is my time. Just leave me when I'm doing this and we'll hang out this evening or whatever times and we'll do our stuff together." So, how do you relate to that?

[Jessica J]: Well you know what, I like that you said that because, with a lot of very successful men, they will buy into this concept of getting laid or getting paid. Men take a lot more pride in their ability to make money and provide because, that's a man's job. As sad as it is, that's a man's role in the world to provide and they'll look at...

[Angel Donovan]: Is that still?

[Jessica J]: Yeah, kind of in a way. I mean, I was just in 14 different countries in the past two months and I will say that is the...in terms of some things that are just universal, like men take pride in their ability to provide, provide so to speak.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah, you take away a man's ability to provide for his family...

[Jessica J]: Yeah.

[Angel Donovan]: ...and you will kill his soul.

[Jessica J]: Yeah, Man.

[Angel Donovan]: If he can't look after his family, if he can't do that, you will kill his soul. He will be the miserable-est guy on the planet.

[Jessica J]: Oh God, absolutely and that's something I'll never understand and that's something a lot of women just really cannot comprehend and it wasn't until I started Dating Coaching for Men where I really understood the value and the pride that man takes in his ability to do that.

In terms of relationships, I'd never say sacrifice your work or your ability to provide for the sake of a woman. If you're thinking of an either/or, that's an issue you've got to take up with yourself but, relationships exists for the sole purpose of you guys coming together to build something greater than this isolated money-making machine that you have here on your own. So, you have to ask yourself what that is, what the point of your relationship is and what you are willing to do and what you're not willing to and if she's down for the ride awesome. If she's not, that's not the girl for you.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah, so I guess the point here is to figure out what your boundaries are. Like the things are really important for you.

[Jessica J]: Yes.

[Angel Donovan]: And like you say, it compromise anyway. You should be figuring out and learning about each other and learning when to leave him alone, learning when to leave her alone if she's doing her stuff and when you work best together.

[Jessica J]: Exactly.

[Angel Donovan]: Awesome! Now, for the end of the selfish discussion which, I think we've navigated relatively well. How can you cultivate and make being selfish a habit and a part of you?

Hopefully, we've illustrated how thinking a bit more selfishly can be helpful in a lot of these situations. It's just kind of a framework or a way to think about things that might be a bit different and help you put yourself in the right place in these situations. How would say like we can encourage ourselves to build this as a habit and more of something inside our lives instead of just something that we just spoke about today?

[Jessica J]: I recently saw a talk with some...god, I wish I remembered her name but, I was at some sex convention and she was telling me about this thing they're doing in Japan. It's like a closet-cleaning technique. I don't know.

[Angel Donovan]: A what? A closet cleaning?

[Jessica J]: Yeah, a closet cleaning technique where you...

[Angel Donovan]: Are we talking about restrooms, closet cleaning?

[Jessica J]: No, no, no like you know, your closet at home like with your cloths.

[Angel Donovan]: Okay, okay cool.

[Jessica J]: So like apparently, you take out an article of clothing and you say, "Does this bring me joy?" and if you don't have an intense immediate visceral reaction that involves joy, you just throw it out. I think so many times, we get so caught up mentally in terms of what I have to do or, "No, I can't get rid of these things because, you know this will mean that about me."

I think if at the end of the day, we can ask ourselves, "Is this exactly 100% what I want to do because, it brings me joy?", I think that will start the habit being a good kind of selfish. If you're waking up the day and the first thing you're doing is answering emails and you're fricking miserable, you know what I mean? That's not cultivating a selfish habit.

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah, that's actually a really key thing. I mean, waking up in the beginning of the day and deciding what you're going to do with your day before you start checking everyone else's agenda via email or whatever. One of the most important things you can do for life in general, not just all of this cool Dating, Sex, Relationship stuff.

[Jessica J]: Exactly like, if you could wake up and say, "Okay, how am I going to make my day mine," versus "How am I going to make my day for everyone else," that's a good starting point.

[Angel Donovan]: Excellent, cool. Okay, let's round off the interview here. I've got some more quick fire questions for you here. What advice do you give out the most to men? Right, you give it out a lot and you would also say that it's ignored a lot of the time or it's the hardest to actually get them to make use and take it in?

[Jessica J]: This is it! This is exactly what it is. Like, "What do you want?" and there's so many times I'll have guys sit there and they'll be like, "Okay, I don't know what I want. I think that I'm supposed to get married because, I'm this certain age or I think that I'm supposed to go after all these hot girls because, they're hot girls." But at the end of the day, it's very hard for them to hone in on, "Well fuck, what do I actually want?"

I'll have guys come in and be like, "I want to bang mad bitches," or I'll have guys come in and be like, "Oh, I want to find my wife." 9 times out 10 as we're moving along, they realize that, "I actually didn't want it!" Like oh my god, this guy didn't want that.

[Angel Donovan]: Someone else's agenda.

[Jessica J]: Someone else's agenda.

[Angel Donovan]: It's a plague right because, we're all watching, well we grew up watching TV. We grew up doing all these kind of passive things, taking in information and all that information kind of programs our mind and we end up with all of these objectives and things we think we should be doing, maybe just to fit in with our social group and so on.

We've touched on this a bit before. So, I'm really glad you brought that up. It's a really good point. Is there anything you do to shock them the hell out of it?

[Jessica J]: Shock them the hell out of it? I had them write it down. "What am I going to get out of it? Okay so, this is what I want, this is what I'm going to get out of it and what about this do you want?", because a lot of times, "What about this do you want? Well, I want somebody to care about me." Like, "Okay, is that the only way you get somebody to care about you." "Oh well you know, my parents think that I should be married at this point."

Certain things like that really helps them hone in on, "Okay, what do I really want for myself," because it's so hard for people to really ask themselves that question because, they're taught not to. We're taught that it's selfish.

[Angel Donovan]: Exactly, I think journaling is huge, right? So, you get them to kind of journal a bit and write things down. It's just writing things down makes you look at them. If you keep them in your head, it doesn't really allow you to think about them as much, right?

[Jessica J]: No but, once you put it outside of yourself, a lot of times once it's outside of themselves, or what I do is I take extensive notes with my clients. A lot of times it will be like, this guy, I could read it. I was so embarrassed that I said something like that and it's just putting the looking glass in front of them. It'd be like, "Hey, so this is what you put out there. How are okay with it are you?"

[Angel Donovan]: Cool, yeah.

[Jessica J]: Like, "Oh shit. That's me? That's not me."

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah, yeah very valuable. Everyone should be journaling a bit. I guess a lot of guys are at home and they're thinking, "Well, yeah it is kind of me. I don't really know what I want and it's really hard to figure." I think the answer to that is just what you said. You just start writing some stuff, right? It'll start helping you or you could go to a therapist, of course, one with the right knowledge to help you through it.

[Jessica J]: Yea, who writes it all down for you and then starts.

[Angel Donovan]: Okay, so I don't know if this happens to you. Do you get any objections to the way you approach this? I mean, it may be some difficult clients. It's always interesting to hear about what people object to. What is their resistance to using information and advice that you feel is really powerful, obviously?

[Jessica J]: Yeah, the biggest resistance I get is, "Just tell me what to do. Just tell me what to do. I don't want to have to like learn about myself. I just want to know what to do." One thing I always tell my clients is, "You're not paying me to kick the ball for you. You're paying to help you become a fricking soccer star."

That's the analogy I use because, that's what a good coach will do. A good coach will help you use what you already have to become this super star that you want to be. You're not paying me to come in there and like run and kick the ball for you while you watch on the sidelines saying, "Oh, I wish I could that myself."

That's just not what we're here and it's a big resistance because, for so long, a lot of these guys paying other dating coaches or gurus, especially male gurus and dating coaches. They'll say stuff like, "Oh, this is what I did. This is what I did. Here's what you should try doing," and then, they get away from themselves.

They get away from themselves. They don't know how to trust themselves. So then, they'll ask some other guy and it's just this endless cycle of, "Fuck, what the hell am I doing? What am I supposed to do? I don't even know what I want to do."

[Angel Donovan]: Yeah, yeah I think that's a great answer to that question as well. Yeah, I bet that comes up all the time. It's kind of like they want to avoid the work, right? It's a bit being lazy.

It's actually hard to think about stuff. It's being passive. Actually you know, they should be more selfish about this right?

[Jessica J]: They should.

[Angel Donovan]: Not be selfish, be proactive and...

[Jessica J]: Exactly, they need to be more selfish.

[Angel Donovan]: The selfish rule survives again. So, who besides yourself would you recommend for high quality advice in any of this area, dating, sex, relationships?

[Jessica J]: I love getting this question because, I cannot speak more highly...I'm not just saying this because, he's Asian but, J.T. Tran I think is just a wonderful coach. Like, I've seen him coach. Just, I've seen a lot of drill sergeant coaches. I will say that. A lot of guys...

[Angel Donovan]: What's a drill sergeant coach?

[Jessica J]: Like, "You have to do it like this. You have to do it like this. You're doing it wrong. Like, you're fucking up and just..."

[Angel Donovan]: Shouting, kind of shouting at you? Giving you a hard time?

[Jessica J]: Shaming guys like...

[Angel Donovan]: Shaming, there it's a good word, yeah.

[Jessica J]: Yeah, it's hard enough to like put yourself out there for you to shame and the way I've seen J.T. do it. J.T. is so supportive of his guys from the door and that to me, like it really...it spoke volumes of me to the industry. I met J.T. a long time ago but, seeing him do that and seeing how much trust his clients do have in him, it was very inspiring. I will say that and it's rare that I come across that.

[Angel Donovan]: That's very cool and now, I know exactly the guy you're talking about. That's a very cool recommendation. Thank you, I'll probably reach out to him to get him on the show sometime because, we'd never had him on.

Okay, last question here. What are your top three recommendations to guys who want to fix this part of their life as fast as possible? Everyone wants everything as fast as possible. What would be your top three things you would say they should do?

[Jessica J]: Okay, top three things they should do is...I'll actually give the first module of my program. We touched on it earlier, this concept of me, you and us. So at the end of the day, you have to know exactly who you are and what you want.

Then after you've figured that out, you have to find out who she is. You could sit here all day and be like, "This is what I want. This is who I am," but if you can't look at a girl and be like, "These are the qualities that would make me happy. These are the qualities that I'm actually attracted to," it's going to be hard to find that girl.

Then, you have to ask yourself, "What are the two of us going to look like together." I actually said this to another client the other day. Like, "Listen, you're going to meet a lot of wonderful, good looking, smart, intelligent women but, you have to find the one that actually makes you feel something in you when she's sitting there in front of you," because, that's what you're looking for.

Somebody who like excites you just by standing next to you because, it's so easy to say, "Look at, she's so great on paper. She's funny. She's got her own job. She's gorgeous." It's so easy to say those things but, if she doesn't have an effect on your that really makes you questions your entire existence, then what's the point of doing it? So, I say me, you and us.

[Angel Donovan]: Great, it's a very simple formula. So that "us" one, I haven't heard it before. Is that kind of like...are you talking about like kind of visualizing like yours together and how it would work out or is it more about the chemistry when you put the two of you together? It's how will that work together?

[Jessica J]: I would say both because, everybody has an idea of what they want in a mate or a partner but, nobody ever sits there and thinks, "Well, how is this person going to act towards me? What kinds of things is she going to bring out in me? Is she going to bring out the worst in me? Is she going to make me forgo my kids and my business or is she going to liven my life?" I think that's a very big component that a lot of people forget about but, it's definitely the last step and it's a necessary one, in my opinion.

[Angel Donovan]: That's very cool. Yeah, yeah because ultimately, what I find is some guys that get into this, they don't get life satisfaction at the end. What you're talking really about there is like, "Is this going to make my life better? Is this going to really fit perfectly?" Cool, that's very good advice there.

Well Jessica thank you. This has been awesome having you on the show. It's been a great chat.

[Jessica J]: Thank you Angel. I had a blast!