A definitive discussion about the best CA legal .223 autoloader



I've been considering three:







The Ruger Mini-14 with the thumbhole stock. I like quite a few things about this rifle:

1: the thumbhole stock feels like a pistol grip when you hold it and there are no fixed-mag restrictions with this particular one . Apparently this IS illegal without a fixed mag. So it's definitely out.

2: the wide variety of accessories and mods available

3: If, god forbid, I ever have to defend myself with it, no prosecutor (if it comes to that) will have a "scary" looking "assault weapon" to show a jury and make me look like some gun-crazed whack-job.

Cons:

1: I hear accuracy and reliability aren't all that great

2: the price for a new one starts well-above 1k.

3: Mags are expensive.









The Kel-Tec SU-16

Pros:

1: It's cheaper than the mini-14 by quite a bit.

2: It's compatible with AR-15 mags

3: from what I hear, the accuracy and reliability are a bit better than the Mini-14

Cons:

1: it looks "scary" (scarier than the mini-14 anyway)

2: not as many accessories available





and finally,





The Saiga .223

Pros:

1: they're cheap

2: reliable

3: Can Take AR mags

Cons:

1: it's "scary"

2: Not too accurate

(Admittedly, I don't know too much about this rifle)



EDIT: Everyone seems to be pushing for an OLL AR-15. And as this is supposed to be the definitive .223 autoloading thread, I would be remiss to not include them. So, why don't you guys start throwing out some suggestions keeping in mind 1: affordability, 2: reliability, and 3: accuracy



EDIT 2:

So it's down to two choices on the AR configs for me:



Something like this:



Pros:

1: the U15 stock, which allows me to use detachable mags.

2: Accurate

3: Reliable

Cons:

1: More expensive than the Saiga or the Kel-Tec

2:I get no other evil features

3: It's ****ing ugly.

(is there any way to remove that stock rod sticking out the back of it?)





Or this:



Pros:

1: Dead ****ing Sexy

2: With a bullet button, I'm allowed all the evil features I want.

3: Accurate

4: Reliable

Cons:

1: More expensive than the Saiga or the Kel-Tec

2: I have to use a bullet button (although this might not be the worst thing ever)

3: Again, "scary." But a lot of the comments so far have put me at ease.



How bad is the bullet button, really? Is it that big a pain in the ***?



As of right now, I'm leaning towards the AR, but please feel free to educate me about the pros and cons of each of these rifles. Also, if you feel I might be better served by any other options, please let me know.



I will be using this gun primarily for target shooting and home defense. I seriously doubt I'll ever go hunting with it; I already have some bigger caliber bolt-action rifles for that. (I already own a Mossy 500, for those of you suggesting I buy a shotgun) What's up guys. After searching the forums for a bit, I couldn't find any conversations about what the best .223 auto loaders are for different situations.I've been considering three:The Ruger Mini-14 with the thumbhole stock. I like quite a few things about this rifle:2: the wide variety of accessories and mods available3: If, god forbid, I ever have to defend myself with it, no prosecutor (if it comes to that) will have a "scary" looking "assault weapon" to show a jury and make me look like some gun-crazed whack-job.Cons:1: I hear accuracy and reliability aren't all that great2: the price for a new one starts well-above 1k.3: Mags are expensive.The Kel-Tec SU-16Pros:1: It's cheaper than the mini-14 by quite a bit.2: It's compatible with AR-15 mags3: from what I hear, the accuracy and reliability are a bit better than the Mini-14Cons:1: it looks "scary" (scarier than the mini-14 anyway)2: not as many accessories availableand finally,The Saiga .223Pros:1: they're cheap2: reliable3: Can Take AR magsCons:1: it's "scary"2: Not too accurate(Admittedly, I don't know too much about this rifle)So it's down to two choices on the AR configs for me:Something like this:Pros:1: the U15 stock, which allows me to use detachable mags.2: Accurate3: ReliableCons:1: More expensive than the Saiga or the Kel-Tec2:I get no other evil features3: It's ****ing ugly.(is there any way to remove that stock rod sticking out the back of it?)Or this:Pros:1: Dead ****ing Sexy2: With a bullet button, I'm allowed all the evil features I want.3: Accurate4: ReliableCons:1: More expensive than the Saiga or the Kel-Tec2: I have to use a bullet button (although this might not be the worst thing ever)3: Again, "scary." But a lot of the comments so far have put me at ease.How bad is the bullet button, really? Is it that big a pain in the ***?As of right now, I'm leaning towards the, but please feel free to educate me about the pros and cons of each of these rifles. Also, if you feel I might be better served by any other options, please let me know.I will be using this gun primarily for target shooting and home defense. I seriously doubt I'll ever go hunting with it; I already have some bigger caliber bolt-action rifles for that. (I already own a Mossy 500, for those of you suggesting I buy a shotgun) Last edited by chaaalieboy; 10-27-2009 at 10:10 PM ..