In the November issue of Scientific American, psychologist Simon Baron-Cohen of the University of Cambridge explores the possibility that some of the genes that contribute to autism are inherited along with genes behind certain cognitive talents common to scientists, engineers, mathematicians and other technical-minded people. Some evidence suggests that regions around the world where a lot of engineers and scientists live and marry—such as Silicon Valley in California and Eindhoven in the Netherlands—have higher than usual rates of autism. When two technical-minded people have children, they may be more likely to have a child with autism because of the underlying genetics. To help gather data to test these ideas, Baron-Cohen and his colleagues have created a Web site where parents can report what they studied in college, their occupations and whether or not their children have autism.



Chat Transcript

ferrisjabr

Good morning everyone! I'm Ferris Jabr, one of the associate editors at Scientific American

ferrisjabr

We'll be starting the chat soon

mbloudoff

Hi everyone, I'm Mollie Bloudoff-Indelicato with Scientific American. I'll be joining in the chat as well.

Summer

My name is Aaron Summer Lopez of Kansas City, Missouri

darciforrester

Hi - my name is Darci Forrester - I'm in Oklahoma

mbloudoff

Feel free to start posting questions now. We'll get started in a few minutes.

mbloudoff

Aaron, Darci -- Great to have you to chatting with us today. Looking forward to your questions.

jm_c_r

Hi my name is Josep M Im in Reus Catalonia

sbaroncohen

Hi, this is Simon Baron-Cohen. Looking forward to chatting.

ferrisjabr

Welcome to the Scientific American chat.

ferrisjabr

We'll be live for the next 30 minutes with University of Cambridge psychologist Simon Baron-Cohen, who is an expert on

ferrisjabr

I'm Ferris Jabr, an associate editor for Scientific American, and I'll be hosting this chat.

ferrisjabr

Let's get started.

darciforrester

Hi Ferris

darciforrester

Hi Simon

ferrisjabr

Does anyone have any general questions for Professor Baron-Cohen about the genetics of autism?

darciforrester

Yes - what kind of links are there to schizophrinia

darciforrester

My husband and i both have genetic histories of it....

darciforrester

Currently, our son is undergoing a trial of Risperdal (under the watch of a neurologist), and from what I understand

darciforrester

and have read it is considered an anti-psychotic

sbaroncohen

the majority of people with autism do not have autism but they can co occur

Summer

My question was two-fold in relation to Autism and how it physiologically affects us during winter.

Summer

Which would allow me to understand more of myself because I have not been diagnosed with Autism but my doctor referred to Asbergers.

sbaroncohen

autism doesn't seem to have a seasonal component unlike some forms of depression

sbaroncohen

a diagnosis of Asperger Syndrome can be useful to help a person understand why they have had difficulties

Summer

Biologically though has it ever been studied a link between higher thought in cold vs hot climates? This may be an avenue that could shed

Summer

light on demographics.

sbaroncohen

i'm not aware of any research comparing rates of autism in different climates

Summer

thank you sir.

sbaroncohen

we want to find out what the 'risk factors' are in parents to have a child with different kinds of autism

sbaroncohen

parents can help our research by going to www.cambridgepsychology.com/graduateparents

nkvenugopal

What are the common 'risk factors' that you've come across?

mbloudoff

How many parents have participated so far?

sbaroncohen

the website was only launched on november 2nd so it's too early to say

sbaroncohen

we are hoping to have thousands of parents give us information about their degrees and occupations

sbaroncohen

risk factors in parents include having a previous child with autism

sbaroncohen

but we are testing the hypothesis that scientists may have a higher rate of autism among their children

David Smith

is it true that MIT was approached to do a study like this buy declined access to alumni

sbaroncohen

It is true that we explored running this study at MIT.

sbaroncohen

the advantage of our website study is that it doesn't focus on one specific university like MIT

ferrisjabr

It might be interesting to discuss the observations related to this hypothesis

ferrisjabr

Particularly the higher rates of autism among MIT alumni, in the Silicon Valley etc

sbaroncohen

we looked at autism rates in a different 'silicon valley' in the Netherlands, called Eindhoven

sbaroncohen

we found there were more than twice as many children with autism in Eindhoven than in other Dutch cities

sbaroncohen

Eindhoven is an information technology hub

nkvenugopal

Regarding the hypothesis, does it stem from a hypthesis that scientists are borderline autistic as well?

darciforrester

do you consider autism a kind of evolution of the brain?

sbaroncohen

i think autism involves a different kind of mind and brain

sbaroncohen

evolutionary hypotheses are very difficult to test

Ornella

Are you also going to look at parents? If they have also autistic traits?

sbaroncohen

we published a study in 2010 on parents, showing they have higher levels of autistic traits

sbaroncohen

that was in the journal Molecular Autism

Ornella

Thanks I will look at the publication

ferrisjabr

Just a note for any latecomers: the chat is in full swing; feel free to post your questions

darciforrester

systemizing is very interesting to read about....

darciforrester

we have noticed how our son reacts to different situations....eg, he loves to be cuddled, and seems to empathize with

darciforrester

inanimate objects or non-human characters

sbaroncohen

i suspect that among parents or siblings of a person with autism there are higher rates of talents in systemizing

nkvenugopal

Can you explain that a little bit more? 'higher rates of talents in systemizing'?

Tamitha Mulligan Skov

It is generally known among engineers that many in the field tend toward autism anyway, regardless of intellect.

sbaroncohen

we have found fathers and grandfathers of children with autism are more likely to be engineers

sbaroncohen

systemizing is how we figure out how a system works

sbaroncohen

some systems are mathematical, some are mechanical, some are natural (like the weather)

sbaroncohen

people with autism seem to be very interested in systems because they follow rules and have predictable

sbaroncohen

and of course scientists systemize as part of their job

patterns

mbloudoff

Is it just a paternal link (fathers and grandfathers)?

darciforrester

yes, i'm curious about the paternal link as well.

sbaroncohen

we don't know if the link is just paternal - our website study should help us identify if it is maternal as well

sbaroncohen

i expect that both parents are contributing genes relevant to autism

darciforrester

do you have a close date on data collection? when will the results be published?

Sheena

My son is autistic, and my degree is in English. However, I have a great interest in science. Will your study take interests into account?

Tamitha Mulligan Skov

In engineering you often do not need well developed social skills either. Could personality play a role as well?

sbaroncohen

we haven't got questions about 'interests', only about 'degrees' and 'occupations'

sbaroncohen

our study will run for a couple of months and we will summarize the results in Scientific American

darciforrester

awesome. i'll be watching for it.

ferrisjabr

I think Sheena and Tamitha make good points. Personality and interests come into play too

ferrisjabr

Perhaps future studies will look more closely at these factors

ferrisjabr

But asking about degrees and occupations is a good way to get useful data

Heather Beresh

I think Interests would be important to include! Perhaps in a follow-up study

sbaroncohen

i agree interests of parents would be very informative

sbaroncohen

Personality is precisely what we are interested to study

sbaroncohen

A personality that is attracted to systems more than social relationships

nkvenugopal

Did the parents (or grandparents) exhibit any signs of borderline autism?

sbaroncohen

the study in Molecular Autism 2010 by Wheelwright and colleagues shows parents have higher levels of autistic traits

Rbtsfg

is it just males with autism that favour systemizing (cars, trains etc)?

Rbtsfg

how do females with autism tend to 'systemize'?

sbaroncohen

males in the population do show stronger interests in systems, on average

sbaroncohen

females with autism may systemize differently to males. this needs more research

ferrisjabr

Is it possible that systemizing in girls and women is less obvious and more difficult to detect?

nkvenugopal

Would your study also look into a correlation between 'degrees' and 'occupations' and where the child lies on the spect

sbaroncohen

we will be looking at parental degrees/occupations and child outcome on the autistic spectrum

Heather Beresh

Glad you are doing this research though - I've been curious about this for some time now. My family would fit your criteria for sure!

Sheena

I think girls systemize less obviously. That is why so many girls may live with undiagnosed Asperger's syndrome for instance.

Rbtsfg

perhaps less obvious to those 'looking' for male-pattern traits?

sbaroncohen

i think you're right that systemizing in females may be harder to detect

sbaroncohen

in what way might girls systemize less obviously?

sbaroncohen

the topic of autism in girls has had very little scientific attention and is very important

Tamitha Mulligan Skov

You will definitely find a positive correlation. Autistic people are drawn to science fields requiring little public speaking.

mbloudoff

Fantastic chat everyone. We have about five minutes left. Any last questions for Dr. Baron-Cohen?

ferrisjabr

I'll just make a few quick points

ferrisjabr

Tamitha, I think that is an interesting nuance. Perhaps some scientists on..

ferrisjabr

the more 'severe' end of the spectrum stay out of the spotlight

Heather Beresh

do you think autism is related to not filtering stimulus but rather taking it all in and storing it for later sorting and analysis?

sbaroncohen

some people will be aware that DSM-5 plans to remove the term 'Asperger Syndrome' as a diagnosis

Tamitha Mulligan Skov

Are the statistics lower for girls in science and engineering fields due to less women in science?

darciforrester

what are your views on the dsm-5 changes?

ferrisjabr

Yes that's another important issue. The results from the DSM-5 Field Trials are currently being published

Heather Beresh

if so, this would be an excellent skill for scientists!

sbaroncohen

i think this is key - people with autism do tend to have difficulties filtering what information is relevant

darciforrester

from my understanding it can still be written in the notes...

Summer

sytemizing through language rather than science or math is definitely going to be less noticeable.

darciforrester

personally, i think it's great.

ferrisjabr

Some people are worried that some people with autism may be excluded from diagnosis

Summer

more noticable rather. lol

ferrisjabr

Simon do you have thoughts about the new DSM-5 definition of autism spectrum disorder?

darciforrester

i have seen first hand what is considered 'classical' autism vs. aspergers, and to me it is a whole other ballgame.

Heather Beresh

so then, giving them tool to learn better ways of sorting and analysing information should be a focus

sbaroncohen

on the plus side, DSM-5 does highlight that autism is a spectrum

sbaroncohen

DSM-5 is also prompting scientists to start testing for differences between subgroups

darciforrester

i think that people will still be diagnosed, but more correctly.

Heather Beresh

it would turn a deficit into a strength

darciforrester

i'm curious to see what the prevalence will be with the new definitions.

sbaroncohen

most important to diagnosis is not the label but what the person's needs are

sbaroncohen

it's been a pleasure chatting with you all

ferrisjabr

Okay everyone we're getting ready to wrap things up

sbaroncohen

sorry if i've not managed to reply to all the comments

darciforrester

exactly :) it's just a label.

ferrisjabr

Thanks so much to everyone for participating and for all your questions

Paul Wolf

Food for thought in Psychology!

darciforrester

thank you for your chat :)

mbloudoff

Thank you to Dr. Baron-Cohen for joining us on Scientific American's live chat. And thanks to Ferris Jabr who set this up.

sbaroncohen

you're welcome. hope you enjoyed the article

David Smith

thanks

David Smith

very interesting

ferrisjabr

If anyone has any last questions you can send them to me on twitter

ferrisjabr

Bye for now!

Tommy Gilbertson

fantastic insight! finally we are getting glimmers of an answer to autism. continue this line of research at all costs!