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So, this is the deal. You take over a tiny Welsh village football club, win your national league about 100 times on the trot, the number of cup triumphs are not far behind, increase the budget a zillion fold.

Next stop Barcelona, Real Madrid, Bayern Munich and Juventus in the group stages of the Champions League.

The figures above are somewhat exaggerated, of course. The last point about playing football's super powers in the most elite club competition on the planet appears several galaxies away. And then a few more on top.

But under-estimate Mike Harris, the charismatic chairman of Welsh champions TNS, at your peril.

This is one of the greatest pioneers Welsh football has known and his dream, and drive, for his club and the game in Wales in general is not to be dismissed.

Having surprisingly overcome the Kosovans of Feronikeli, TNS meet FC Copenhagen in the Champions League second qualifying round on Tuesday night. They will most likely lose over two legs, even if they were to win there would be a couple more obstacles before TNS could venture into the group stages.

But as every year goes by, Harris believes the dream is edging closer.

"And what is football without dreams? You have to have them, whatever level you are playing at. That is as applicable to us as it is to Manchester United," he says.

Interviewing a football figurehead like Harris is a real pleasure. Articulate, intelligent, he doesn't do bland, instead offers a strongly-held, and it must be pointed out, well-reasoned opinion on most matters.

Although he does display unusual reticence when asked his views of the job Ryan Giggs is performing as Wales manager.

"I would rather not comment," he says at first, before venturing: "I don't know if he was the right man for the job at the time. Time will tell.

"Perhaps it was too early for him, perhaps he has the potential to be a top manager. We will see.

(Image: PA)

"But I do feel the next generation of managers should first spend a couple of years in the Welsh Premier. If he comes through the Welsh coaching education system we can see the good, and any flaws, early for ourselves in Wales."

In this wide-ranging and fascinating discussion, Harris argues strongly that Giggs should use a quota system with his Wales squad and pick at least one player from the often-maligned Welsh Premier League.

"Over time we could build that to five or six, perhaps," he argues. "I'm not saying someone should come in today and necessarily play. But just being involved in training sessions, working with superstars like Gareth Bale, would improve them no end and they would bring that back to our league."

He outlines why TNS will never join the English system, dubbing the football in League Two as 'hoofball'.

"Why would we want to go backwards? We'd have to start at the bottom," Harris points out. "I can see why teams want to play in the English Premier League because you get £90million for coming last.

"Anyone would want that money, but we're not being offered the golden ticket. We're quite happy where we are, thank you. Aiming for Europe every year."

Harris also talks candidly about having to deal with initial ridicule and criticism over his revolutionary ideas, but points out others have since followed suit and Welsh football is a million miles from the 'tea and sandwiches brigade' he first came across.

There's often a fine line between what is seen as pioneering genius and downright wacky. Particularly in football where change is viewed with scepticism and a hint of fear.

Harris' record of success demands he falls into the pioneer category.

It was actually 21 years ago that the Welshpool businessman was asked to get involved with Llansantffraid FC, nine miles up the road in Powys.

"They approached me as I was a successful, forward thinking local businessman," he reflects. "I wasn't interested in the age-old thing of shirt sponsorship. 'Change your name to my company and that'll be a whole different story' I told them.

"I didn't expect to hear from the club again. An hour on, they rang. 'What's the deal?' they asked."

It was from there that the name Total Network Solutions, the communications company run by Harris, sprung up in football.

Many were derisory. This had never happened before in Britain. What a stupid name for a team. It can't work, it's just a gimmick, that sort of thing.

Yet more than two decades on TNS and Harris are still going strong, the owner having displayed commitment and a ground-breaking vision for the game others have subsequently followed.

He took the club full-time, controversially brought in a 3G pitch, developed a successful Academy, won the league eight years on the trot and 12 of the last 15 times, the Welsh Cup five out of the last eight and took TNS into the Champions League.

It is a truly extraordinary success story. Next step those elusive group stages.

(Image: Stuart Vance)

"We were told the artificial turf, which we got back in 2007, was no good. You can't play football on that. No-one will accept it," he recalls.

"Twelve years on, 10 out of 12 clubs in the league have got it. So too clubs in the English system, it's also been introduced into rugby.

"Artificial turf has improved tremendously from where it was back then, but we were at the very forefront of leading the way. It meant a good pitch the whole year around. Not Wembley, I grant you, but much better than playing on a surface covered in mud.

"We made our move in the Welsh Premier many years ago. The League has improved greatly, and is what it is today because of that. It's a far cry from what used to be the tea and sandwiches brigade, much more in tune with football as it needs to be in 2019.

"Of course we've always had to deal with brick walls and criticism. Lots of it. People who drive change are always in firing line. Lots of others want 20-20 hindsight. But if I had worried about the flak, we'd still be in the dark ages. Instead we're in a rather different place and I'm proud of the role I've played in helping that change happen."

Back in 1998, the TNS turnover was £40,000. These days it's in excess of £1.5million for the business.

The playing wage bill still pales by comparison of what Harris estimates it would take to achieve his dream of Champions League group stages. But he insists it's not just about money, there are other ways to reach the goal.

"And I really believe we will one day," he enthuses.

TNS have already rubbed shoulders with Champions League royalty. When Liverpool staged their famous Istanbul comeback to beat AC Milan, the first game in defence of their trophy was a 2005-06 tournament qualifier with TNS.

Only a Steven Gerrard hat-trick was the difference between the teams at Anfield. The Liverpool talisman netted two more in another 3-0 win at the Racecourse in the return leg. It was almost Gerrard v TNS.

(Image: Getty Images Sport)

To meet the likes of Liverpool again, TNS would need to get through the four qualifying phases. They're highly unlikely to do it this time, FC Copenhagen loom in their way, but Harris remains upbeat.

He points to a game against Cypriots Apoel Nicosia three years back. This is a side who had previously reached the Champions League quarter-finals, only to bow out against Real Madrid.

"They've been in the group stages a few times, albeit on a £14m wage bill," says Harris. "Ours is £620,000 a year. Yet they said to us 'We never want to play you again' after we pushed them close, drawing 0-0 at our place and missing the best chances.

"Every player in the Apoel side was an international, or a South American, yet we gave them one heck of a fright."

So how does Harris bridge the gap?

"Money helps, of course, but it really isn't everything," he argues. "The Kosovans we have just beaten had a £1.3m wage bill, more than double ours.

"Ajax's Champions League team last season cost £20m to put together, Tottenham's was £150m. Yet there was next to nothing to choose between the sides in the semi-finals.

"Outside of San Marino, we have the lowest wage bill of any club in the competition.

"If I want to go out and just sign players who will take us there, £13m would be the level of budget that would make a real significant difference. An extra £500k would have no bearing.

"But we're not going to pay those sums of money, of course. We need to continue doing what we are and hope for the rub of the green.

(Image: PA)

"We need to develop and train players to a point where they make a difference. They have an assimilation to your club, it's a place where they want to be, they feel a connection.

"Where our first team manager differs to lots of other clubs is that he is also responsible for the Academy, so it's in his own interests to bring through home-grown talent. Team spirit, work ethic and style of play can take you some way.

"We don't want to just hire players who've been somewhere else and are on the way down. We want to develop players, including the occasional exceptional one, who are on the way up. Young, enthusiastic, hungry, coached in the right way."

A kind of mini-Welsh version of Ajax perhaps, I ventured to suggest?

Harris was having none of that.

"I don't know what the Ajax model is. We don't model ourselves on anyone else. The ONLY way is your own, let others follow you.

"People may scoff at suggestions we can get into the Champions League group stages, but what's new? When I first got involved two decades ago I joined the players for a drink and told them 'I want to win the league.'

(Image: Getty Images)

"Raised eyebrows, it's fair to say. I didn't dare tell them I wanted the group stages in Europe, too! They'd have said I needed to head to a mental institutiton.

"Of course, people said 'no chance' to us winning the league, but we did. Several times. I've been told throughout my career, in business and football, that I can't do things. Anybody who's challenging, or success driven, is always going to be ridiculed by people with no vision themselves. But we do get things done."

So does he feel envy when looking at Cardiff City, Swansea City, or perhaps more appropriately Newport County and wish for the profile and riches they get in the Football League?

Newport, of course, recently played Manchester City, Tottenham, Leicester and Leeds in huge FA Cup games that captivated a UK-wide nation. The Welsh Premier just cannot tap into that, even 27 years since its inception.

"No envy whatseover. Good luck to them. It's just not for us," replies Harris.

"Why would we want to go backwards, start at the bottom of the English pyramid system?

"If somebody said 'Here's a Golden Ticket to the Premier League' of course I'd look at it. But while I'm successful in business, I'm never going to put together the resources of the Etihad, or others.

"I wouldn't want to go into League Two. Hoofball, a strong, physical game. That's not the style of play we encourage here.

"I guess on a broader scale we can only gauge how good we are when we play in Europe. Our biggest problem is that only comes around once a year. But we have reached semi-finals in the Scottish IRN-BRU Cup, Connah's Quay got to the final last season.

"The Welsh Premier, that demonstrates, has definitely got stronger. Connah's Quay had an excellent Europa League win over Kilmarnock.

"Could we play in League Two? Yes. Could we play hoofball? Perhaps not.

"Newport have ambition, fair enough. Swansea City were in a similar position 15 years ago and look at what they've achieved. I can see why teams want to play in the English Premier League. £90m for coming last! Anyone would want that.

"I think we'd be very competitive in the English leagues. We've played Rangers behind closed doors for the last three years and the teams have been equally matched, other than up front perhaps. You can see why people are willing to pay £10m for a striker.

"But we've shown real ambition. And that continues - with the Champions League group stages the goal."

So what about the Welsh Premier and the role the FAW, and the manager of Wales, have in developing it further?

"The Welsh FA need to continue to modernise, have belief in our product. I'm not advocating reducing the size of the league, but if it were to shrink to say eight clubs, they could share TV and sponsorship deals. But they must go full-time in return. The League would improve again," says Harris.

"Sometimes you have to push boundaries, but I guess it's easier for them to push the national team.

"This is a personal view, but I feel a lot of money was wasted in the Euros. Too much went on player bonuses and so on. Was it efficiency for scale, should the success have been a catalyst to throw money at our league?"

Harris does feel more can be done by the powers-that-be and argues Giggs, or whoever is manager of Wales, should be helping.

"I think Wales should introduce a quota system. One player in the squad must come from our league, that figure could grow to five or six over 10 years," he argues.

"There's talent here. Centre-half Steve Evans was with TNS for five years, consistently excellent. Yet he goes to Wrexham and after one year gets a Wales cap.

(Image: Ian Cooper/North Wales Live)

"Why did he not get that when he was playing just as well at my football club? Do they believe it's better to have players from the English system, the public won't get on their backs?

"Steve Evans should have had his chance whilst at TNS. Simon Spender, our right-back, too.

"Look, I'm not saying there should be six in there right away, or they should be in the starting XI. But just one in each senior squad would start it. Then people begin talking about that player, say from Connah's Quay, Leeds United want to buy him, the transfer fee comes back into Welsh football. Pedigree turns into money which develops even better players.

"At the very least Giggs, or any manager of Wales, must make time to come and watch our league, rather than attend non-football events. He's been to one final, but Chris Coleman seemed to be a regular.

(Image: Daily Post Wales)

"These are the things that bring the profile."

With that, Harris was off to one of many business meetings he conducts on a daily basis. But TNS FC are clearly at the forefront of everything he does.

"I was never in this for short-term gain," he says.

Evidently not. Harris has certainly put his money where his mouth is.

Who would have thought any of this possible 21 years ago?