kosaginolegion

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Member Back to Top Post by kosaginolegion on



There's an episode of Conan called Sunset Mansion, in which Conan and co. are invited to a mysterious mansion in the middle of nowhere. That mansion was the scene of a mass killing some forty years ago and there's supposed to be a treasure.



Intriguingly, the owners of the mansion at the time were part of a group called the Black Crows (now defunct) and were founded by a man called Karasuma (or possibly Karasumasu) Renya. Equally intriguingly, in a much more recent episode of Conan, we learn that the song that the Black Organization's leader's phone number is based on is about crows.



Go see that thread if you want more details, but we were discussing the possibility of this being a major clue that Gosho has dumped in our laps.



Kentaru



I thought a little bit more about the logo and our dear friend "round crow" ( yup - all of a sudden he's indian ^^ why? because I decided so) couldn't have found a better logo that that crow inside a circle... also, as I looked into the shadow of round crow I've remarked that his nails are quite long and his nose is .... Oo like a crows - if its a nickname then I now certainly understand how he got it......

I think that he could be a part of the Kaito stories more than the Conan stories..... fits with his nickname - the blacks in Kaito got animal names whereas those in Conan have wine names, I'm sure you remarked that. I'm not that much into Japanese either - but I think I heard that somewhere (in any case we could always ask under the japanese section if the contraction thing is true)I thought a little bit more about the logo and our dear friend "round crow" ( yup - all of a sudden he's indian ^^ why? because I decided so) couldn't have found a better logo that that crow inside a circle... also, as I looked into the shadow of round crow I've remarked that his nails are quite long and his nose is .... Oo like a crows - if its a nickname then I now certainly understand how he got it......I think that he could be a part of the Kaito stories more than the Conan stories..... fits with his nickname - the blacks in Kaito got animal names whereas those in Conan have wine names, I'm sure you remarked that.



I agree that he looks a lot like a crow, too. Or a tengu. (looks innocent).



I wonder if we could be looking at a point of schism then? Perhaps the villains of the Kaito Kid storyline are also descendents of the Black Crows but - owing to an argument between the two groups' leaders - they're at odds with each other.



Given that Gosho has no plans to pick up the Kaito Kid plot as a Kaito Kid story, then tying that storyline with this one might be part of his plan.



I'm currently theorizing that the animal group may have gotten the idea that Kuroba Touchi was helping the Black Organization and had him killed for that reason. (Given all the other speculation is true. We can't be sure until we get more clues, obviously, so any speculation beyond that is very tenuous.)



An odd thought just occured to me and I need to go back and look at the magician murder cases. I think that one old magician had a similar nose and I have this odd memory that he's been missing for years. *goes off to ponder*

Over in the "Questions you have..." thread, Kentaru and Sweetangel and I were discussing a potential clue to the Black Organziation's background.There's an episode of Conan called Sunset Mansion, in which Conan and co. are invited to a mysterious mansion in the middle of nowhere. That mansion was the scene of a mass killing some forty years ago and there's supposed to be a treasure.Intriguingly, the owners of the mansion at the time were part of a group called the Black Crows (now defunct) and were founded by a man called Karasuma (or possibly Karasumasu) Renya. Equally intriguingly, in a much more recent episode of Conan, we learn that the song that the Black Organization's leader's phone number is based on is about crows.Go see that thread if you want more details, but we were discussing the possibility of this being a major clue that Gosho has dumped in our laps.(from other thread)I agree that he looks a lot like a crow, too. Or a tengu. (looks innocent).I wonder if we could be looking at a point of schism then? Perhaps the villains of the Kaito Kid storyline are also descendents of the Black Crows but - owing to an argument between the two groups' leaders - they're at odds with each other.Given that Gosho has no plans to pick up the Kaito Kid plot as a Kaito Kid story, then tying that storyline with this one might be part of his plan.I'm currently theorizing that the animal group may have gotten the idea that Kuroba Touchi was helping the Black Organization and had him killed for that reason. (Given all the other speculation is true. We can't be sure until we get more clues, obviously, so any speculation beyond that is very tenuous.)An odd thought just occured to me and I need to go back and look at the magician murder cases. I think that one old magician had a similar nose and I have this odd memory that he's been missing for years. *goes off to ponder*

Kentaru

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Member Back to Top Post by Kentaru on I believe I didn't say masu but maru - maru's round/circle.

As for the black org. and Koruba -- looks like we're on the same wavelenght.. actually I thought that he could have known that Vermouth was a part of the org. when he trained her and all that Karasuma discussion made me want to include him in my fic. if only in flashbacks -- I sense a lot of potential in that "crow" character. He could end up as main opponent to Toichi if I play things right. Black org and the bad guys in Kaitou might have been founded by the same person but have split over time (or in a day) -- could be what happened in the flashback of sunset mansion... people killed each others, there were two potential leaders and the remaining members picked a side.



What makes you think that Gosho /doesn't/ want to continue KK?

kosaginolegion

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Member Back to Top Post by kosaginolegion on Kentaru

You did. I don't know why I keep messing that up. Other than CRS. (Can't Remember Stuff)



I like your idea for a fanfic. That's a nice twist on the story line and one that I think could fit in well with Gosho's work even if he doesn't end up using it.



Re: KK and not continuing... I was almost certain I'd seen that he said he wasn't going to write any more of that series except within Conan.



@nyarlothotep

(This is in response to something from the Question's thread.)



My current theory regarding the Black Crow boss partly depends on my theory on the relationship between the Black Organization and the mafia. If the latter turns out false, the former is obviously not necessary to anything.



However; Back around 118 years ago, the west was just getting into to things Japanese. This was the beginning of the Meiji era (I think) and the Japanese had opened up and were interacting a lot more at that time. Karasuma may have been a member of a Sicilian mafia family who went to Japan for some reason, ended up marrying a Japanese wife (or taking a Japanese mistress?). There he formed the Black Crows and was given a Japanese name that fit with his appearance and possibly his family name.



Much later, with at least two sons or two lieutenants, he dies and the family is split over who should lead. One part of the group went with what would become the Black Organization and the other part with the animal bunch in Kaito Kid. Both groups are hunting for a way to immortality, possibly even wish to resurrect Karasuma, but are going about it from two different directions. (Tech vs. Supernatural).



Anyway, I'll discuss the theory more when I'm back from that (American) homeland of gangsters - Chicago. You did. I don't know why I keep messing that up. Other than CRS. (Can't Remember Stuff)I like your idea for a fanfic. That's a nice twist on the story line and one that I think could fit in well with Gosho's work even if he doesn't end up using it.Re: KK and not continuing... I was almost certain I'd seen that he said he wasn't going to write any more of that series except within Conan.@nyarlothotep(This is in response to something from the Question's thread.)My current theory regarding the Black Crow boss partly depends on my theory on the relationship between the Black Organization and the mafia. If the latter turns out false, the former is obviously not necessary to anything.However; Back around 118 years ago, the west was just getting into to things Japanese. This was the beginning of the Meiji era (I think) and the Japanese had opened up and were interacting a lot more at that time. Karasuma may have been a member of a Sicilian mafia family who went to Japan for some reason, ended up marrying a Japanese wife (or taking a Japanese mistress?). There he formed the Black Crows and was given a Japanese name that fit with his appearance and possibly his family name.Much later, with at least two sons or two lieutenants, he dies and the family is split over who should lead. One part of the group went with what would become the Black Organization and the other part with the animal bunch in Kaito Kid. Both groups are hunting for a way to immortality, possibly even wish to resurrect Karasuma, but are going about it from two different directions. (Tech vs. Supernatural).Anyway, I'll discuss the theory more when I'm back from that (American) homeland of gangsters - Chicago.

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Member Back to Top Post by Nyarl on kosaginolegion said: I think, though, that there's reference to an association, too. I can't be absolutely certain, since I don't read enough Japanese, but based on the flaws I'm hearing exist in the German translation, I'm not sure it's trustworthy. Someone with better Japanese might check the thread over in the Manga area. Kentaru posted the Japanese original.



(Back at last from Chicago. @_@ Exhausted and small children psychotic. I may be lax in responding for a day.) I think, though, that there's reference to an association, too. I can't be absolutely certain, since I don't read enough Japanese, but based on the flaws I'm hearing exist in the German translation, I'm not sure it's trustworthy. Someone with better Japanese might check the thread over in the Manga area. Kentaru posted the Japanese original.(Back at last from Chicago. @_@ Exhausted and small children psychotic. I may be lax in responding for a day.)



Translating the whole chapter isn't something I'd want to try, but I do think I can use JWPce to do a rough translation of certain parts to spot errors, and another part of the translation does look wrong or misleadingly vague. It looks like the people who were at the auction, according to the scan that was posted by Kentaru, were noted people of the financial world (財界の著名人), not just “famous members” (of whatever). Translating the whole chapter isn't something I'd want to try, but I do think I can use JWPce to do a rough translation of certain parts to spot errors, and another part of the translation does look wrong or misleadingly vague. It looks like the people who were at the auction, according to the scan that was posted by Kentaru, were noted people of the financial world (財界の著名人), not just “famous members” (of whatever).

Kentaru

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Member Back to Top Post by Kentaru on ^^; I am of the same opinion as Nyarl.... Here's what I was trying to post yesterday before my internet failed me:



Guess what ---- the German translation is quite correct (in that specific case).

At first "Crow Circle" really seems like a mistranslation of "Karasuma Renya" and thats exactly what it is. What I do know is that the japanese version says that many well-known people of the financial world came together to remember him. (‚±‚ÌŠÚ‚ÉàŠE‚Ì’˜–¼l‚ðµ‚¢‚Ä‚ ‚éÐ‰î‚ªŠJ‚©‚ê‚½‚Ì‚¾‚æBBB‚X‚XÎ‚Å‘¼ŠE‚µ‚½u‰GŠÛ˜@–ë‚ðŽÃ‚Ô‰ïv‚Æ‚ß‚¢‚¤‚Á‚Ä‚ÈBBB–Á‘Å‚Á‚Ä‚ÈBBB)

and that instead of talking of Karasuma Renya who built the mansion the english scanslation speaks of "the crow association". The people at the meeting might not necessarily have been members of an organization but rather people in the finance world who knew Karasuma personally. What do you think of that possibility?

(Back myself from a longer journey to Germany and I am reading a really good Tezuka biography in german + several seinen manga titles - so I might not answer right away either. Just take your time)