So Olimar is a character that most players including some Olimar players consider bad. His results aren't as strong as other characters, but I think that's due to other circumstances as opposed to the characters flaws. Most top Olimar's including myself don't travel out of their states that often. For various reasons, mine being money, this means he doesn't get very strong displays often. He's not perfect, but he's top 15 in my opinion, and easily high tier. I do generally well in FL almost always landing top 8 at the big tournaments here, and have been for awhile. I know Shuton does very well in Japan even making top 3 at some of the stacked ones. There's some other good placings, but I don't know them all.



What I think really holds Olimar back in many players eyes is that they either have interactions with him that skew their perspective and make them think “oh he's not good”. (Looking at the regions with Olimar players who may not be as strong) Information regarding him that has circulated, but is only a part of his overall character. The information I'm talking about is how Pikmin clank. Yes they are considered projectiles. However, they have some interesting properties that allow them to circumvent the issue of clanking when performed right. To add to this they're some of the best projectiles in the game only really losing to ones that can't be stopped. Examples being Thoron, fully charged Water Shuriken, and R.O.B.'s Laser.



So let me break down some of the techniques and things Olimar can do to circumvent his largest issue, the clanking. There's something that I coined as a "desync smash". This happens when Olimar is moving and starts a smash after the movement. So if he's running and does an up-smash or a pivot fsmash, or if he's falling and lands with a smash (Usually D-Smash) it can trigger it. What happens is if the opponent throws out an attack it can catch the Pikmin during the start of the smash before its hitbox comes out, its hurtbox is out because it has been desynced by the smash. By the opponent throwing out an attack it locks the Pikmins position in place (This means the Pikmin will smash from where it was as opposed to where Olimar is currently), and finishes the smash. (Once a smash is started it can't be stopped or killed during the attack) Since the opponent’s attack hit the Pikmin before the smash hitbox came out the opponent is stuck there in the animation. This allows the smash to commence uninterrupted hitting them. I've punished some of the best moves in the game with this, True Shoryuken being one of them. It does sound situational, but with continued practice I'm getting better and better at making it happen. Since it's really just awareness and positioning it's a viable tool to punish attacks you cannot normally. On a smaller note you can do this technique to a similar extent without desyncing the position. Whenever a smash is being charged the Pikmin sits their with its hurtbox active, this means when spaced right it can soak hits then release hitting the opponent. It's how Olimar can punish things like Shuttle Loop, Super Jump Punch, Shoryuken, and more under the ledge when they have hitboxes. Actually if the moves trade at the right time Olimar may even be hit, but the smash will still hit them since their move hit something. This is just one of the tools Olimar has to work around his weaknesses.



Another big advantage he can gain is lagging his opponents’ hitboxes with his Pikmin. This can backfire at times, but I'd say a solid 90% of the time it's allowed me to punish moves I couldn't normally. It's also allowed me to dodge ones I shouldn't have been able to. This is an extremely important use of the Pikmin, and is again something I feel more Olimar players should put into practice.



He can pressure extremely well with the proper lineup. Having two to three purples can allow him to pressure shield better than most if not all characters in the game imo. Retreating purple B-Air is safe on shield, and when coupled with purple side-b before hand it can allow for strong pressure. His smashes are also notorious for poking shields. (I hear this complaint from players too often to ignore it) His D-Smash can break shield when up close since both Pikmin can hit shield, and with a red and purple or two purples it's not hard to take it from 100% to 0%. His nair is a great way to snub out the approaching opponents move since it's a nice long multi-hit.



His defensive options also help him reduce the issue of being juggled somewhat easily. He has whistle which has super armor frames 6-12 and very little lag allowing you to tank a hit, and then punish most of the opponent's moves. B-Reverse Pikmin Pluck allows him to switch his momentum and direction similar to what whistle did in Brawl. His up-b can be used as a third jump and immediately canceled into an aerial if need be. (It can also get out of combos and multihits often). He's hard to gimp since his recovery covers so much distance, and he can chuck purples towards you to put off some hitboxes while he recovers.



What I'm getting at is that he has strong tools to combat the opponent, and he can be the aggressor with the proper lineup. The biggest thing holding him back is how unforgiving he is to play. He requires more than just managing Pikmin, his spacings and timings have to be very precise most of the time. Unlike most characters, being off makes you just outright lose the transaction or have a Pikmin do a standard desync. (Most desyncs can be worked around with proper spacing and awareness) It's a work in progress from me and other top Olimar players. I think once we start attending more it'll make him look better to most, but for the time people are seeing what is a work in progress. He doesn't have amazing confirms like Zero Suit Samus, Ryu, or others. He has some, and they're strong, just not as over-centralizing as theirs. I'm one to look at Olimar's abilities when people can actually put his tools into proper use. I've had days where I felt I could take any character in the game no problems just by using his tools properly. So if people wanna tell me why they feel he's mid tier or worse I'd love to hear it. I don't think saying results really does it justice, because in the states where he's present he usually does well. He just doesn't get to attend nationals that often Click to expand...



From Brawl to Smash 4 ​

Pikmin Types, Lineup, and Effectiveness ​



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Last month, the Wii U Back Room (4BR) released their second officialtier list; with many changes from the first version, the tier list had various controversial topics. One of them was Olimar’s placing, who had the second highest standard deviation among the votes.For this case specific, player Robert “” Herrin, top player from Florida, Olimar main, and member of the 4BR gave a little insight on the topic in the 4BR Tier List v2.0 Followup article , but you can read Myran's statement fully here:It is a long statement by itself, but Myran did offer more to say about Olimar’s case. Among topics discussed, there was changes from, optimizing his moves and their differences depending on the Pikmin used, among others. Let’s take a look at what he said:One of Olimar’s most noticeable change was the Pikmin pluck tweaking; from the odds of plucking a certain color and the speed it is plucked determined purely by the terrain to now being all set. Here is what he said about this and other changes:“Olimar now controls 3 Pikmin as opposed to 6, and they're plucked in a set order. (Red, Yellow, Blue, White, Purple) He's slightly lighter and faster. He has a new jab and F-Tilt which helps his close quarter game allowing him to box better. Some smashes are faster, however U-Smash has more lag. Pikmin don't fly off the stage with F-Smash unless he's at the edge of the stage. A new Up-B allows him to recover from much farther, replacing his tether. Whistle grants 7 frames of super armor as opposed to 14, and cannot be wavebounced. His kill throw potential has been lessened with blue U-Throw being the only consistent kill throw. Some new things are the inclusion of what I've dubbed as desync smashes, this helps circumvent the issue of Pikmin clanking due to being projectiles. Other than that there's just some general frame data changes and damage changes that don't affect too much.”To define what he coined as a “desync smash”, he explained the following:“What happens is if the opponent throws out an attack it can catch the Pikmin during the start of the smash before its hitbox comes out, its hurtbox is out because it has been desynced by the smash. By the opponent throwing out an attack it locks the Pikmins position in place (This means the Pikmin will smash from where it was as opposed to where Olimar is currently), and finishes the smash”Olimar inwas ranked 3rd in the last tier list provided by the BBR (Brawl Back Room), and in the last 4BR tier list he was ranked 30th, a little bit below the middle. The transition has notably affected him, but does he really deserve to be in that spot? Is Olimar really a Mid Tier?“Not really. In my opinion, he's top 15! I know a lot of people would think otherwise, but I'll try to explain my reasoning. He's got a few good things going for him. First off his ability to rack up damage/camp from a distance. Being able to throw Pikmin from afar is a great way to force an approach/rack up percent. With the proper lineup he can get 60% off of one D-Throw. His shield pressure can also be incredibly strong with the right lineup. 2 purples and a white can allow for shield breaks often. When a Pikmin is latched onto the opponent they do shield stun/damage per tick. (White's being the most) Mix that in with purple Side-B into a smash or B-Air and shields will break or they're getting hit. He can punish most characters’ 2 frame ledge snap when they recover from below with a yellow down smash since the hitbox extends so far under the stage. He can even grab some characters from under/off the ledge. He has a kill throw, and one of the best pivot grabs in the game allowing him to retreat with a safe kill option. Overall he can pressure the opponent well, camp when he needs to, and capitalize hard off his opponents bad situations. More often than not he's forcing them into these spots with proper Pikmin usage. The main reason you don't hear a lot about his potential or success is because he has a very high skill ceiling. On top of the regular Pikmin management that's expected you also have to be hyper aware of Olimar and the Pikmin's position so that you can use desync smashes often to beat out attacks. I think as time goes on, and players keep improving with him and his tech he will rise in results and in the opinions of others.”So delving more and more deeper into the Pikmin metagame, let’s see what are his thoughts on the Pikmin pluck change.“I think the 3 Pikmin fixed order is [better]. Having 6 Pikmin could allow for some incredibly strong pressure at times however cycling 6 Pikmin for the ideal gameplay could also be more difficult and less consistent due to the random pluck chance. 3 pikmin plucked in a set order means you can always be planning what lineup you want or need. 3 Pikmin are also easier to cycle, it makes lineups that have 2 Pikmin very effective because you can get them back to the front of the line faster. I think it just makes for an overall stronger character that really rewards the player for their skill and eliminates any randomness.”Olimar can pluck five different types of Pikmin: Red, Yellow, Blue, White, and Purple (in that order), what are the difference between them?“Red Pikmin have 1.2x damage and knockback on smash and aerials, but have 0.8x damage and knockback on throws. On top of this they have an immunity to fire damage allowing them to go throw attacks like PK Fire unhindered. This lets them do stronger smashes and aerials, and confirm throw combos at higher percents. Red Pikmin have 8% health.Yellow Pikmin have 1.25x larger hitboxes, and an immunity to electric attacks. They also have the electric property causing their attacks to have more hitlag. Yellows are great for spacing out things where other colors may not reach. They have 1.0x damage for all attacks used, and have 8% health tied with red for the average health amount.Blue Pikmin have 1.6x damage and knockback on throws making them the most consistent Pikmin to use for kill throws. They also have the 2nd highest health of all the Pikmin at 11% being right behind purple. They have standard damage on smashes and aerials.White Pikmin have 0.8x damage and knockback on smashes and aerials while doing 1.0x for grabs. However they do double the damage on pummel being 4% up from the standard 2% and have the longest grab range. They also do 3.7% per hit from side-b as opposed to the 1.1% from red, yellow, and blue. They have the lowest health of all colors with 7%.Purple Pikmin have 1.4x damage and knockback on smashes and aerials, while keeping a 1.0x for grabs. Their main drawback is the shortened range on smashes and grabs. This is made up by their unique hitbox for side-b which makes them a hitbox that doesn't latch on when thrown. They have the highest health with 13%.With all these different attributes it allows for a vast amount of creativity in his gameplay. Being able to tailor your game plan to a certain Pikmin lineup is crucial and it's important to be able to make the most out of your lineup, while still filtering them into the ideal lineup. Most Olimar players don't have the same management style which is a great thing in my opinion! Variety makes it easier for us to learn more effective ways at optimizing the character.”Now, how would Myran rank these Pikmin?“1. Purple - unique Side-B hitbox allows midrange pressure to increase, as well as combos to begin from farther distance. Can be used to safely gimp offstage. Have strong smashes and aerials allowing kills to be gained early.2. Blue - Their isn't really anything going for them except grab. However being able to kill so much earlier makes them one of the more valuable Pikmin to have in higher percents. They also help rack up strong damage off low percent throw combos.3. Yellow - Due to their larger hitboxes it allows you to often hit opponents right out of their reach and start a form of offense. The range also allows Olimar's down smash to hit under the ledge quite a good amount making 2 frame ledge snaps easier to hit consistently. The added hitlag is a nice benefit too since it can open new combos.4. White - Their main use comes from strong Side-B damage, but due to their low health they often don't get to stick for the entire duration. On the other hand since they have the longest grab of all colors it allows for you to retreat with pivot grabs safely catching most opponents where other colors may fall short. Overall they filter themselves fast, but grab usage is a key component of their play5. Red - They do have the second strongest smashes and aerials, however I find purples to excel in those areas better almost all the time. The real use of this color is the higher percents where it allows you to connect D-Throw into U-Air or B-Air allowing stocks to be taken in the upper mid range percents. Other than the throw uses or niche fire immunity I find the other colors to do each of the jobs needed to be better.”Olimar being a highly mix-’n’-match based character, with up to 125 different combinations and orders, what could be that “golden combination”, how good do they really blend?“As for the best lineup, it varies, however Blue-White-Purple is a great one for racking damage (besides also being the order they pluck, and not having to throw away Pikmins to get the order), Purple-Purple-Blue is also a strong lineup for killing since the purples can force shield which blue circumvents with up throw. As for Purple-Purple-Purple, I think when played optimally it makes Olimar a top 3 character in the game. The level of pressure he can apply with 3 Purples is ridiculously high.”And with this, the first “Backroom Pass” concludes. We will be discussing other topics like this in future editions, but, for now, let us know what you think in the comments! Be sure to follow Myran on Twitter @MyranSSB and the 4BR @Smash4BR