Is there anybody that you like in the Democratic political class? Or do you think [the 2020 nominee] should be someone from outside politics?

I think it better be a white male.

Really?

100%. And I don’t say that because I want it to have to be a white male. I say that because of just the realities of the situation. I think if the Democrats nominate anyone other than a white male at the top of the ticket, they’re gonna lose the election. I’d be willing to bet anything. I feel highly confident in that. And it shouldn’t be that way for this election–

But just because the electorate is too racist and sexist?

Because of where the electorate lines up and where Trump’s strengths lie. And I think if you nominate–

So Obama only won because of who he was running against? But a Trump who activates people’s racism and sexism —

No, I think Obama could have won against a lot of people. But I think this is a very unique situation. I think Donald Trump is a very unique candidate. And I think if you run anyone other than a white male against him in 2020 — and I think a lot of people in the party agree with me on this, and I think a lot of people disagree with me — I think you are begging for a repeat of 2016. That’s what I believe. Firmly. I firmly believe that. Look. If Joe Biden would have run in 2016, if Beau, his son, had not tragically died, we wouldn’t be sitting here right now. We wouldn’t be sitting here because I would have no case against Donald Trump.

You don’t think he’d have been able to demonize Biden the way he did Hillary?

No. No. And look, here’s what’s unfortunate. It’s very difficult for a woman to run against Donald Trump. Women face a very, very difficult time when they run for higher elected office unfortunately, especially against a guy like Donald Trump. Okay? If they don’t hit hard enough, they’re soft, right? And if they hit back with the same force as a man, they’re classified as a bitch, right? Which is entirely unfair to women. And that’s a very fine line for a woman to walk. And it’s a line that a man doesn’t have to walk. And, again, that’s not right. It shouldn’t be that way. But it’s a very, very difficult walk.

So I do think it is a critical mistake for anyone other than a white male to lead the top of the ticket in 2020. And I wish I didn’t have to say that. I wish it was different. But it’s not, in my view. That’s just my view. I might be wrong about this.