Ulrik Hogrebe: Hi Max, really happy to have you here today — and congratulations on your new typeface releases and the launch of your new website. You run Signal Foundry and today we’ll talk a bit about what it entails to run your own foundry. But besides being a type designer, I believe you wear quite a few hats — do you want to start by telling us a bit about yourself and what you do?

Max Phillips: Sure. I was originally trained as a painter, to the extent that I was ever trained to be anything at all. I learned just enough to know I was never likely to be much good, but it started me drawing, and that’s come in handy. Some of my design office and agency clients come to me specifically because I can draw.

Max Phillips

I started designing posters for my actor friends’ plays when I was a teenager, and my general design practice has pretty much developed out of that, though it moved from the cultural to the corporate world when I was still in my twenties and has (largely) stayed there. Today I still make most of my living doing branding, print collateral, the occasional website, and even a few UIs, but my principal passion has been letters — I started trying to design alphabets when I was 14 or so — and I’ve been concentrating on that more and more in recent years. I started Signal to have a structure for pursuing that specialty. Right now I divide my time between doing design work for my own clients, providing lettering, logo development, and bespoke typeface design for other studios and agencies, and retail typeface design.

UH: Cool. Am I correct in thinking that you are originally a New Yorker, and now reside in Dublin?

Some of Max’s other work; Logotype development for Christie’s auction house

MP: I’m still a New Yorker. You don’t stop being a New Yorker just because you leave New York. But Dublin’s my home now, and I’d like to think I’m part of the Irish design community.

UH: Ha, yes — got it. I want to return to Dublin for a second at the end of this interview, as I’ve heard good thing. However, before we do that do you want to talk a bit about Signal and your new releases?

The idea behind Pressio was to draw a very black, extra-compressed typeface and then make the regular widths by squashing it down vertically. Then after I was done with that, I decided I’d try to make lighter weights by hollowing out the insides. So the whole thing was done backwards…

MP: Always. I’ve just brought out two new families that have been in the pipeline for years; Pressio and Center Slab. And I’ve redesigned and expanded two older families, Center and Vibro, adding two new weights to the former and a new lower case to the latter — Vibro was an all-caps titling face when I first designed it.

Pressio’s my biggest family so far: 20 styles, in four widths and five weights. It originally came out of lettering for a rejected corporate logo, and I thought the sketches would make a nice little exercise, and they just kept growing, and really haven’t stopped yet. The idea behind Pressio was to draw a very black, extra-compressed typeface and then make the regular widths by squashing it down vertically. Then after I was done with that, I decided I’d try to make lighter weights by hollowing out the insides. So the whole thing was done backwards, in terms of usual type design practice. This generated shapes and effects I couldn’t have planned in advance. If Pressio is interesting, and I hope it is, that’s why.

And as I said, it’s still growing. There’s a stencil companion in the works, and I’ve decided it needs some italics, too. So I’ll probably wind up with 60 styles in the next little while. Well, maybe not a little while.

UH: Ha, yes — don’t I know it. Experimenting with the process and letting it drive the aesthetic is a really interesting take on designing typefaces though.

Speaking of process, I want to dwell a bit on the typefaces that you’ve redrawn — tell me about the decision making that goes in to redrawing a typeface?

MP: “Decision” may not be the word. I didn’t exactly decide to add a full lower case and a set of dingbats to Vibro, which hadn’t made me much money to begin with. It was more a matter of the idea getting a grip on me and not letting go.

Pressio: form principle

With Center, I thought the 1.0 version looked pretty good, and started adding serifs to make a slab companion. And I couldn’t figure out why the slab version didn’t feel the way I wanted it to. And eventually I realized it had to do with basic decisions I’d made about width and contrast, and that if I wanted Center Slab to work right, I had to adjust the basic skeleton, the relative widths of the letters, the structure of the arches — the works.

Once I’d done that, of course I had to go back and apply all those refinements to the sans. Meanwhile, I could see by the way the sans was being used out in the world that it would be improved by adding a couple of weights and adjusting some of the weights that were already out there. So that added up to a bunch of work. And of course, this work’s all being squeezed in between your client work, because clients need what they need when they need it. And your kids need to eat.

…I would really like to make as many different kinds of letters as I can in whatever time I’ve got left on Earth

UH: Yeah, it’s tricky. But you’ve got to find the time though.

So maybe, we should take a step back. What makes a Signal typeface? Do you have a particular approach or set of inspirations?

MP: I’m inspired by damn near everything in the world of letters, and by a lot of things that aren’t in the world of letters, like architecture and sculpture. And I would really like to make as many different kinds of letters as I can in whatever time I’ve got left on Earth. I’m not one of these people like van Krimpen who have a single ideal letterform in their heads that they keep approaching from different angles. I’m not a genius like van Krimpen, either. As for my approach, I just try to get to a feeling of rightness. Clarity, harmony, and balance, but with a little edge of tension to keep it from being too bland and soapy. There’s no philosophy behind it, or none that I’m aware of.

Stylistic alternatives for Center typeface

UH: I’m always interested in how people approach it. Some come from a very conceptual place like Dries that I spoke to recently — and some let the craft guide them. It’s such an interesting discipline from that aspect, having this singular medium but such a variety of expression and approaches.

Tell me a bit about Signal? How long have you run it?

MP: I started Signal around 2011 or so. Like I said, I’ve always drawn letters, but I began getting serious around then and finally managed to publish my first typeface, Spinoza, with FontFont. It was well received, and it gave me the idea that type design was something I could actually do.

UH: So, you tested the waters first and then set out on your own? What advice do you have for other “aspiring foundry owners”? What should they be prepared for?

I think the demand for typefaces is greater than it’s ever been, and the demand for custom typefaces is growing even faster than that.

MP: When it comes to running a foundry, I’m at the beginning of the journey. I’m in no position to give advice.

A selection of Vibro ligatures

I will say that the type world is incredibly competitive right now, and you’d better be fully committed if you want in. I think the demand for typefaces is greater than it’s ever been, and the demand for custom typefaces is growing even faster than that. But there’s also a lot of people entering the field. Programs like KABK, Reading and Type@Cooper are producing all these highly skilled young people, and a bunch of them are starting their own foundries. I think there’s something like 1200 independent foundries out there, and the number is growing by the week. And it’s genuinely great to see so much talent and focus out there, and so many good new faces.

However, most of these foundries are making very little money. It’s hard to establish yourself when there’s such a crowd of other people, some doing very fine work. There are other pressures, too: the threat of Spotify-style subscription services from huge corporations, and the trend on big resellers for 90% discounts. All of this is pushing prices, and the perceived value of a typeface, lower for many people.

Making typefaces is only half the job. The work of marketing is the other half, and without giving that your full intensity, your work just sits on a server somewhere.

UH: How do you deal with all of this?

MP: You just do the best work you can, and then do your best to let people know about it. Making typefaces is only half the job. The work of marketing is the other half, and without giving that your full intensity, your work just sits on a server somewhere. You have to sell and just keep selling. But you’ve got to do everything with conviction. If you half-ass it, there’s no point. And I suspect, in the long run, it’s the work done with conviction that people respond to.

But I do feel incredibly lucky to being able to spend my time doing something I actually can do with full conviction. And one of the things about setting up your own foundry, creating a brand for it, writing about the work, designing the website, is that it’s a chance to focus on why the hell you’re doing this in the first place. It’s very clarifying, and very satisfying when at the end of the process — and the website was a pretty long process — you can look at it, out in the world, and think: Ah. Yes, that’s what I meant. That’s why I’m doing this. And that keeps you pointed in the right direction.

UH: Fantastic Max. Personally I believe that for a designer type design carries it’s own reward solely through the process—and it’s inspiring to talk to people who are truly passionate about it.

I think we have almost come to the end of out time, but since we are on the subject of passion anyway, I just want to return to the Dublin design scene which I gather is really booming at the moment?

MP: Very much so. There’s so much strong work coming out at the moment, and I keep meeting young people fresh out of school who are already well along their own paths. You can get a good bird’s-eye view of current Irish graphic design at 100archive.com, which showcases some of the best work being done here, and provides a forum for writing about the profession.

I suspect that design education’s very good here, and that a lot of this energy comes from people like Clare Bell at DIT, David Smith at IADT, and Conor Clarke at NCAD . Whatever the reason, there’s a lot of first-rate studios in Dublin now, a lot of new initiatives, and a lot of opportunities for collaboration. And that makes it a good place for Signal.

Ulrik Hogrebe: The role of formal education in design communities is always really interesting to me, and one I often fear is undervalued. I’d be interested in knowing what sets Dublin apart and how education is helping drive the community. That sounds like an interview for another day though.

Max, it’s been a pleasure. I just want to thank you and wish you the best of luck in the future. I personally think the new website is beautiful and the releases are exciting and look great.