The former England defender talks of how Alan Sugar and a smoke alarm changed a career that took him from Wimbledon to Anfield to Spurs

The Fox and Grapes sits just off Wimbledon Common. Tucked down a side street, it is now a posh gastropub with pints for £5.75 and well-groomed dogs adorning the floor. It has not always been this way. John Scales sits in a quiet corner in the back, describing the eve of the 1988 FA Cup final and how the Wimbledon team arrived to let off steam the night before facing Liverpool.

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“The players were bored, so Bobby [Gould, the manager] told us to go and have a walk on the common and allowed us to have a drink to unwind,” Scales says. “It was the perfect thing to do. We had a few beers with the Wimbledon fans and locals. I think they were in shock to see us walk in.”

Be it luck or design, it worked, with Wimbledon and Scales running out 1-0 winners at Wembley to shock the country – and, while their pre-match drink adds to the myth of the Crazy Gang, the former England international is keen to add some nuance to the FA Cup madness, after which an inebriated Scales and Dennis Wise were “dropped off by a police van at 5am and delivered to a TV studio to be interviewed by David Frost”.

“We needed to be the rough-and-tumble, raggedy, disorganised upstarts to suit the narrative of the Crazy Gang. It was a performance to feed the beast. But there was more refinement than we got credit for – Don Howe’s coaching, video analysis – but we were never going to shine a light on that.

Facebook Twitter Pinterest John Scales was just 22 when he won the FA Cup with Wimbledon in 1988. Photograph: Paul Popper/Popperfoto

“I featured in a BT Sport documentary where the only things they picked out of my three-hour interview were negative things about the dressing room. They filmed me here on Wimbledon Common, looking like I was going to kill myself. I survived the initiations, the drinking, being thrown in the river, stuff being burned, clothes cut up. Yes, it was a difficult time – it nearly destroyed me – but in the end it was the making of me and I flourished because of those experiences. I earned the respect of the players on the pitch. And some of those days were the best of my life.”

Signed for £70,000 in 1987 from Bristol Rovers, Scales left Wimbledon for Liverpool in 1994 for £3.5m, millions more than the fees Wimbledon received for Vinnie Jones, Wise or Dave Beasant and then a joint record for the Merseyside club. His transformation from Wimbledon outsider to golden boy at Anfield was complete but it was nearly a very different story.

“I didn’t have an agent throughout my career,” Scales says. “When I signed a new contract at Wimbledon in 1992, the eccentric chairman, Sam Hammam, verbally agreed that, if a bid came in around £2m, I would be sold. Of course, when Liverpool and Graeme Souness made contact six months later, Wimbledon refused to sell. So I had the classic ‘flu’ before a pre-season trip to Hong Kong and handed in a transfer request but got a note back which simply read: ‘No way, José. :) Love Sam.’

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“I’m a Liverpool supporter so was gutted but carried on playing for another year,” continues Scales. “Kenny Dalglish wanted me at Blackburn but, when I was on the phone to him, my fire alarm went off. The flat I had in Wimbledon used to be owned by an antiques dealer who had it alarmed through to the police. So when I burned some toast, it went off and I had to hang up. Roy Evans had taken over at Liverpool and he called, and ultimately I signed for them. I didn’t even read the contract properly because I was so scared of something else going wrong.

I bought a red Ferrari with the number plate 'J1 RED'. I thought: 'You flash git.' I only drove it into Liverpool twice John Scales

“You felt you were walking into history. You think that everything is going to be different. But day-to-day at Liverpool the characters, banter and facilities were the same. Melwood was as it had been in the 70s, Ronnie Moran was still coaching, doing rebounds off the famous wooden boards. At Anfield you’d go through the famous gates and the merchandising store was just a [portable building] in the car park. We used to travel in T-shirt and jeans to games. There was something relaxing about it but the club had not moved into the Premier League era, particularly in comparison to Manchester United down the road.”

On the pitch Scales took the move in his stride; three England caps and a League Cup win came in his first season. Off it, the players developed a reputation as The Spice Boys: Jamie Redknapp married a pop star, David James had a deal with Armani. Scales bought a red Ferrari 355 with the number plate ‘J1 RED’.

“It was awkward,” he recalls. “I thought to myself: ‘You flash git.’ I think I only drove it into Liverpool twice, I was so embarrassed. When I moved to Spurs I tried to sell it to Jamie Redknapp but he wouldn’t take it.”

Facebook Twitter Pinterest John Scales says the happiest moment of his career was Liverpool’s dramatic 4-3 win over Newcastle in April 1996 at Anfield. Photograph: Darren Walsh/Action Images

Scales’s move to Tottenham after the FA Cup final defeat by United in 1996 was problematic for more than a number plate. “I felt there was discipline lacking at Liverpool and had lost faith in Roy Evans,” says Scales. “On top of that I was supposed to be getting married [to the model Ruth Gordon] but called that off. It was a tumultuous time and I was angry. I remember punching a hole in a hotel wall when I had to leave Liverpool.”

Initially he looked set to sign for Leeds but a last-minute bid from Spurs and “Alan Sugar giving me the sweet-talk” led to him joining the London club. “Leeds chairman Bill Fotherby called me all sorts of names. Their manager, George Graham, was fuming but I sent him a bottle of wine to say sorry and, shortly after, he pitched up as Spurs manager and we worked it out. As luck would have it, my first match for Spurs was away at Leeds and I got abused by everyone, even on the bench.”

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Scales’s time at Tottenham was ravaged by injury and his career fizzled out at Ipswich in 2001. “Being injured at Spurs was horrible,” he says. “Paid to do a job that I couldn’t, training on your own, it was devastating – I felt so guilty.”

Scales has gone back to the start, living in Wimbledon, and has a longstanding relationship with the reborn club, AFC, as well as with the Football Foundation, a charity funded by the Premier League, The FA and the Government which has provided support for grassroots football with grants worth £655m. He has England caps, medals and memories but claims the happiest moment of his career was after beating Newcastle 4-3 at Anfield in 1996. “Mistakes were made in that game but I brought the ball out from the back for Stan [Collymore]’s winning goal,” smiles Scales. “There was redemption there. The crescendo of noise at full-time was unique. As a Liverpool fan it still makes the hairs on the back of my neck stand up.”