From the moment he was announced as part of the cast to the moment Jeff Probst snuffed his torch, Vince Sly, a coconut vendor based out of Santa Monica, always felt more like a vision than a man.

Credit Vince’s mythical nature to the feathers, the hugging, the sniffing, the soul-seeing, the truth-seeking… the list goes on. But while he is many things, it turns out that he is not invincible. The Slyest Survivor contestant of them all became the second victim of Worlds Apart this week, after the young trio of Joe, Jenn and Hali joined forces with YouTube comedian Will Sims II to clip the proverbial feathers out of their tribe’s hair.

Related: So Kim Explains Why She Was The First Person Voted Out Of Survivor: Worlds Apart: “I Missed The Suit Memo!”

Why did Will turn on Vince? Where did things go wrong between Vince and Jenn? Why was he so concerned with Joe? I asked all these human-human questions and more in my pursuit to seek the truth about Vince Sly:

My first and most important question, since you’re the first No Collar I’ve had the chance to interview: Did Will make good on his promise to get you guys sandwiches?

Um, if by sandwiches you mean the playground sandbox style “Look! I got a sandwich in my hand!” In the Peter Pan way of imagining that the half-cooked crab is a sandwich? Absolutely. It’s got a crunch, it’s got a meaty center, it has an odd and strange consistency like mayonnaise… so, sure.

That sounds kind of disgusting.

Half of what you eat out there is gross.

I’m trying to figure out what exactly happened last night. Jenn and Hali voted for you. Joe voted for Nina. I feel like Will was supposed to vote for Nina, and then he went rogue and voted for you…

No, no. Will wasn’t supposed to vote for Nina. Will was supposed to vote for Jenn. The whole idea, and I was thinking about this entire campaign for days, was: “How do I break up this power pact?” The three of them, which I called the Barbie Box. I wanted to introduce the idea that Nina has an idol. I wanted to deflect it away from me and create this whole thing, because I was around camp often and having conversations with people often. Nina was not. Nina was my only true alliance. I was able to turn the fact that they had neglected making much of a connection with her, in that she had so much time to go out into the woods all day every day looking for the idol. Eventually I even found a spot that looked like an idol had been there. I said, “Look, this is totally where she found it.” Right before Tribal, I was really pushing that Nina’s got it. “It’s in her bag right now.”

So [that’s] the reason they split the vote… I don’t know why it wasn’t expressed in the episode. Introducing an idol was the only way splitting votes made sense. I think Will changed his mind very last minute, in part because of what Nina said. There’s no other reason why Will went that way. It’s not just one thing out there. It never is. It’s a series of events that leads you to a pre-conditioned idea of how people will act and what their reactions will be. Something happens and it becomes the catalyst, the spark that lights the fuse… but the bomb had already been built. The bomb had been built for him to turn against me quickly. All he needed was this little spark.

How did it get to this point, where you’re the odd man out on what you’re calling the Barbie Box?

The Barbie Box started early on. It was more emotional differences, experientially with life. Maturity differences. The younger kids and the older kids. I’m in the middle. They’re in their twenties, I’m 32, and then I think [Will and Nina] are 47 and 52, or something like that. Very different in how you react. You’ve been in your body longer. You have different hormones. I feel like there were some comments and reactions that Joe and Jenn would have… and I’m not speaking poorly of their character, but there was a younger way to approach life and interacting with people. I realized it early on, and in the first episode, I feel like it was ill-represented; I don’t think it’s an accurate portrayal of who I really am. It had nothing to do with a jealousy issue or a crush on Jenn. It was a power-related issue. I realized, “Three is really strong in a tribe of six. I need to break this up.” All I wanted was control and power. Everybody in Survivor is seeking as much power and control as they can hold onto at any time.

Tell me more about your relationship with Joe, because you’re right — on the show, it does come off as a bit of a jealousy thing. What was the conflict really about in your mind?

He’s a young man with bravado, who doesn’t like getting told what to do. Eventually it turned into kind of a big brother scenario. I was trying to get things done and have some order around camp. He had his way, I had my way, and they’re both really good ways, but they’re not the same way. He has the girls on his side. But what was shown is just a small fraction. I have great respect for Joe. There were many times we had engrossing, hours-long conversations about art, life, love, family, travel, hopes, wishes, wants and desires. He’s a very talented young man. There was great capacity for us to work together, and as you can see — when there’s no food and there’s stress and you’re struggling for power — there was great capacity for war. It was a cold war. It wasn’t direct. It wasn’t like we were off in the distance, Joe and Vince scowling at each other, “I want the shelter to look this way,” “Well I want the shelter to look this way,” you know? We didn’t hate each other. It was just obvious we weren’t working well together.

The show made a big deal out of your relationship with Jenn, but nothing about your relationship with Hali. What did we miss?

You didn’t see any of it. It’s odd. I don’t know what kind of scenario [the show is] driving toward, but they are really focusing on the reason I went against Jenn and Joe, which to me was really not accurate, this whole crush and jealousy issue. I had much more of a connection, personally and emotionally, to Hali. Hali has a really cool and fun spirit. But she’s a mystery box. She doesn’t open for just anybody. I don’t know if on the show, however long she goes, if she’ll actually open up and share that with America. But it was obvious that she was cautious with what she said and how she behaved. It came off sometimes that she had no idea what the hell she was doing out there, which is not necessarily the case, but I think half of her mental capacity was consumed by, “How am I going to look?” They didn’t show us going off in the woods laughing and swinging on vines, talking about spirit animals and things. She’s a very fun and cool person. I think out of the game, in real life, whatever you want to call it, she’s a really sweet, rad, beautiful and spirited person.

Do you feel your connection with Jenn was overblown?

We had an initial bond with each other. It wasn’t that I had a crush on her, and was then crushed by her appreciation and interest in Joe. It was seriously like, here’s somebody I feel I can connect with and work with, and she’s a game player. She felt like a strategizier and somebody who was really in it and wanted to be here for a long time. The first moments you share with somebody, when you’re watching how they interact with a passing leaf or raindrops… those first interactions you have, however long they are, fifteen minutes or hours… the first conversations you have with somebody, in the game of Survivor, you want to create a connection with somebody you trust. It just feels right. I think that’s common. You go out there and say, “I’m going out there and I’m not going to be able to trust anybody, but I need to have that one person I at least feel like I can trust.” If you don’t have an anchor like that, you feel chaotic. So we had that bond and connection. But very quickly, by day three, I realized she was making a much stronger and age-appropriate association with Hali and Joe. With that, I lost my power, and I needed to change things up.

What did you think of the skinny dipping situation — that Jenn and Hali went out into the ocean and didn’t invite Nina along?

Right… well, man, I don’t think the skinny-dipping thing is a big deal. But after many days of being excluded, it was just one, final thing. It tipped her off. “Now they’re going to do this thing that only girls do, and I’m a [expletive] girl. What’s up with that? Just because I’m 50, I’m not a girl? I can’t play? I’m not a playful person anymore?” I think that’s where she was coming from…

[Vince is interrupted by someone.] Hey, I’m on the phone, brother. [Vince resumes the call.] Yeah, sorry. Some guy was just asking if I was on Survivor. That happens a lot on the beach.

Alright, so… I openly admit that I saw that kind of fracture could secure her as my total alliance. She would never break, she would tell me anything. Admittedly, I told her many times… I didn’t lie about things, but I exaggerated. I emphasized the fact that the girls were ignoring her. “I can’t believe these girls are ignoring you like that! They don’t even look at you when they talk to you, because they don’t care to acknowledge that you need to be looked at when they’re talking, otherwise you can’t understand what they’re saying!” Right? So, I would emphasize those things, not necessarily nefariously so she would feel bad about her experience out there, but to help further my game.

It was a short stint for you in the game, Vince. What did you learn about yourself and life in general, walking away from your six days on Survivor?

I got to explore a part of myself in such an extreme circumstance. I explored a part of myself I never would have known existed. What’s it like to not sleep for four or five days? To keep warm by a fire that was made by hand and kept alive with your own breath? No matter if you go out into nature and try to replicate this on your own terms, it’s not the same experience. Because you’re here with people you don’t know and didn’t elect to be there with. I mean, you did, but not those specific people. They’re not friends and family, people you trust. You get to really feel a part of yourself that just does not exist outside of the game of Survivor. For someone who is an incessant adventurer, whether it’s in place or in spirit, this was a fantastic experience.

Josh Wigler is a writer, editor and podcaster who has been published by MTV News, New York Magazine, Comic Book Resources, Digital Trends and more. He is the co-author of The Evolution of Strategy: 30 Seasons of Survivor, an audiobook chronicling the reality TV show’s transformation. Josh hosts podcasts about film and television on PostShowRecaps.com.

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