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Everton left-back Luke Garbutt has revealed Romelu Lukaku's mental block over heading the ball.

The Blues defender, who is on loan at Wigan Athletic, recalled how the Belgium international told him he avoided headers as much as possible due to a childhood injury.

Speaking in a wide-ranging interview with his friend Alex Mearns for the Football Hour podcast, Garbutt spoke on a range of topics - including his desire to resurrect his Everton career.

The 23-year-old, who has largely been on the bench for the Latics this term, discussed his time at Everton so far, his frustration at not playing and his wider thoughts on various issues.

Discussing Lukaku, Mearns said: "Garbs I wanted you to recall a story you told me once, about one and a half years ago, about big Romelu Lukaku.

"You'd think he wins headers all the time. But I remember you said you put a ball in during training and he didn't head it and I remember you asked him why and he said 'I had an accident when I was a kid and I don't like heading the ball'. Was that true?

Garbutt replied: "At the time he wasn't particularly confident and I don't know if he was ducking out of the way of headers.

"Because he's scored a header this season against Sunderland and has had a couple of good opportunities where he's stuck his head in there; I don't know whether Koeman has said to him he needs to do more in the air or whatever.

"He used to say to me that heading wasn't really his strong point.

"When you look at him you think he'd bully people in the air. You think if you out a good ball in he'd absolutely bury it. It's funny"

Garbutt also discusses his thoughts on what Everton should be aiming for this season.

Asked whether they could be dark horses for the Premier League title, he said: "A more realistic aim is to be hitting around 4th or 5th. I think to be challenging at the top would be hard. One or two injuries and we're a bit suspect.

"Could I come back? That could be an option.

"There's a lot of quality in the league this year. But that big game experience sometimes...last year we played really well in spells and then just dropped off and concede stupid goals.

"This year the manager has cut out those mistakes and we're a lot more solid. Last year we conceded 18 goals from set pieces I think and that's just not good enough. That's not going to win you anything

"On our day we're very good. We've got tougher tests to come which will see if we're challenging for Europe at the top or maybe seventh or eighth but the signs are good for the future.

"Koeman is the right man for the job I think."

Garbutt responds to several other questions about his team-mates and Goodison and other issues in the game

On whether Wayne Rooney will return to Everton?

"If you put him into any team he's going to improve it. Why wouldn't you have him back at Everton ?

(Mearns: So I'm looking forward to seeing you playing with him next year)

Garbutt: "Stranger things have happened haven't they?"

On Leighton Baines

"For arguably five or six seasons he was the best left back in Europe, definitely the best in the Premier League.

"It was him and Ashley Cole who was getting on the other side of 30 and Baines was in his pomp. I just love the way he played. How he trained. Everything about him.

"I tried to base my style on him. We have a lot of similarities. He's a great guy with the younger players. It's frustrating because he has kind of stalled my progress in the Everton team a bit but I can't say anything negative about him.

"He was a top player and has had a couple of opportunities to go to massive clubs and they didn't quite work out but in terms of his Everton career he's done really well. I've got nothing negative to say about him."

On his current frustration

"This (loan) is only until January with a view to me playing more. If I'm not playing than obviously I'd love to move on in January

"It is weird. you have to adapt to different changing rooms and personalities. Sometimes I do feel as though I'd love a bit of continuity but in football you're always looking to be playing regularly.

"In that respect I've got a long term contract at Everton so I can try and play regularly at my loan club and hopefully go to Everton and play in their team.

"But if that doesn't work out and I've played well at my loan team then I can get a transfer somewhere else. You're always thinking to yourself 'I need to play football and I'll go anywhere to play."

"It's the only line of work whereby you put a graft in Monday to Friday and don't get really get rewarded on Saturday

"In this industry a lot of the time the manager might have a view and he drops you from the team and you find it very hard to get back in the team.

"Communication is a massive thing at a football club I feel; between the players and the manager there needs to be that communication no matter if you're in the conference or the Premier League.

"I think players will always look up to a manager if he tells you as it is. If you get dropped from a team but he's not telling you why or the things you need to do to get back in that team, you're constantly thinking what am I doing wrong?

"You might not have played well on a Saturday but you don't know. The manager should tell you what you need to improve, what you're doing well. Player management is a big thing."

On John Stones

"When he was telling me how emotional he was when he got the move (to Manchester City) I couldn't be happier for him.

"It's the best move he could have. Playing for the best manager in the world and possibly the biggest super power club in the world It's a great fit for a young payer. Going from Everton, which is a great club, to one of the biggest clubs.

"It's a compliment to how well he's done. In the 18-23 bracket he's probably the Number One centre-back in the world. He's just like a kid day to day; joking and messing about. If you know him as well as I do. It's mad.

On playing five games in Europe for Everton

"To be fair I excelled in my European games - especially the Wolfsburg game.

"My first game for Everton in Europe, and at the time Wolfsburg were flying. But Everton ran through Kevin De Bruyne. I thought I'd have my work cut out. I swapped shirts with him and he said how well I'd done.

On Koeman

"Under Martinez, he kind of couldn't really...

"Koeman commands that respect because of his playing carrer. Players are going to instantly respect what he says, the way he wants to train. They'll buy into that. The players will start playing for him and you'll see better results.

"He's not afraid to make big decions. It's been earmarked by Sky. He brought Ross (Barkley) off after 45 minutes, brought (James) McCarthy off after 35 mins.

"He will make a change. It bodes well for Everton but it's whether we can go up to that next level."

On the media

"Journalists are so quick to bite on a negative. It's ridiculous.

"Pep got beat for first time..and all of a sudden in the Mirror they're saying he pushes his players too hard; so they become tired on a match day. I'm thinking - 'are you actually bring serious?'

"This fella is the best manager in world football. Give him the respect he deserves.

"He pushes his players so hard because they stay at the top. Every year his team are top of the league. Why wouldn't you train the way he trains?

"They become the best."