3 notes before we begin:

This was written before the release of Avengers: Infinity War. That film, with the line, "It's you who doesn't understand that Thanos has been inside my head for 6 years, since he sent an army to New York - and now he's back!", essentially reaffirmed the correct timeline and undid "8 years later". I have added a few small things post-Infinity War in the blog, but these will be denoted by red text like this. I am very happy for this to be shared around - I'd love for that to happen! While I know that is unlikely, nonetheless, just in case, please do! Until Spider-Man: Homecoming, the MCU timeline generally worked out, and so it was not urgent to compile all the hundreds of notes that I and others have made physically, digitally, and mentally on the timeline over the years. Things could individually be explained in small bursts whenever questions were asked. I simply do not have the time yet to explain the decade of timeline evidence which the MCU has accumulated. I have kicked off that project, but will not have a chance to work on it properly until summer.

Without that, however, this blog is difficult to write. It has the possibility of becoming messy, due to the interconnected nature of all the timeline evidence. I have done my best to arrange it properly. As part of this, to avoid going off on tangents about why things are firmly placed on certain dates all the time, I have incorporated citations/references like this[1]. So, if I talk about a firm date, click on the reference to find out why.

I hope my dedication and understanding of the timeline is made clear.

Contents show]

Introduction

What This Is For

So... allow me to go full super-nerd. The Marvel Cinematic Universe timeline has been a huge point of discussion in the time since Spider-Man: Homecoming was released, and it has generated much conversation from fans trying to work out how things can possibly make sense. As well as this, it is also something I have had a strong passion for, and put a lot of time and effort into (frankly, far too much), for years now.

Many people have brought up individual pieces of evidence, but here I aim to provide as much all-encompassing information as I can. Hopefully this can serve, to people who do not have the full picture, as the full set of information about the issues with "8 years later".

What Has Happened

The timeline has actually beenbroken for a long time. There have been many continuity errors in background props and the like, but none extremely significant. The only major difficulty with the timeline that could not work out nicely was Phase One - but there was still asolution, the full breakdown of which can be seen in my blog, here (currently under major update, but still, I feel, comes to a reasonable conclusion).Past Phase One, everything was reasonably fine, and it was nice to just leave the complications of that phase behind - let it settle and solidify, and move forwards with the much-more-packed Phases Two and Three. It was more important to work with the integrity of everything past 2012, seeing as this is when the TV shows were introduced and began interweaving, and everything became more reliant on/connected to the films' placements, in a working and functional timeline. Compromises had been made with Phase One, and now everything was unfolding pretty nicely.was/is very firmly set in May 2012, andwas/is very firmly set in May-June 2016.So, whenopened with the aftermath of the Battle of New York, then cut to "8 years later" to a Vulture scene, and then Peter's adventures during- thus supposedly putting a scene set before"8 years" after- it was upsetting and frustrating for me, and for many others. I don't want to sound too serious or like I'm super-overreacting; theis fun and great, but for people who worked for years on the timeline, itThis supposed time spanso far in thefor them only being 4 years apart. It does not even fit with the already-too-long time span betweenandthat Vision gives when he says in the latter, "In the 8 years since Mr. Stark announced himself as Iron Man."With this new reference, there have been a lot of people online saying things such as, "Wait, isset in 2020? Or isset in 2009?" And with these questions, people have latched onto the one main piece of evidence within the film itself for which year it is set in:when Peter has Karen call up Aaron Davis/Prowler's profile, it says that his date of birth is April 1984, and Karen says that he is "33". Withclearly set in September of whichever year, people have, understandably, used that one piece of evidence to placein September 2017.

Some quick side notes: There are 4 other things in Spider-Man: Homecoming to quickly address.

One is Toomes' line, "8 years. Not a word from the feds, nothing from those Hallowe'en costume-wearing bozos up there over at Stark Tower." While this supports the "8 years later" card, it can just about be dismissed as Toomes saying, "I've run a business for 8 years. In those 8 years, Hallowe'en costume-wearing bozos have begun popping up, and more and more have arrived on the scene, but not one of them caused us trouble. Sure, Tony Stark interfered in our business 4 years ago, but indirectly, and it wasn't Iron Man - no superhero has ever interfered, until now."

Another thing is that when Ned is using his laptop during the climax, "2017" software is shown. While this also suggests 2017, this is not the end of the world, since companies quite often release the software titled after the next year around the end of the previous year, so it's possible that by September 2016, a 2017 software had been released.

Another is a quick point about the "April 15th 1984" - on-screen small dates in the MCU like the 1984 date are very, very commonly just mistakes. For example, Marvel's Agent Carter : Season 1, Episode 1 - Now Is Not the End has a newspaper saying it is late April 1946, then another one saying it is June 1946, and that Colleen O'Brien was born on May 23, 1922 and died aged 24. However, in Episode 5 - The Iron Ceiling , it is said that "April 27th" is "less than 2 days from now" and then Episode 8 - Valediction is said to be "May 8th", the first anniversary of V-E Day. This clearly puts the premiere at the very latest in mid-April 1946, overruling the props. The paper mentioning Colleen's death also shows dates from 2009 and 1996, despite it being set in 1946. Another example is that a newspaper in Iron Man 3 puts it in December 2013, when the film clearly, repeatedly says it is Christmas and "13 years" since December 1999, and thus December 2012, supported by other evidence as well [2] . There are many, many examples of this sort of mistake - it should not overrule the very strong evidence putting the main events of Captain America: Civil War in late June 2016.

like the 1984 date are very, very commonly just mistakes. For example, : Season 1, Episode 1 - has a newspaper saying it is late April 1946, then another one saying it is June 1946, and that Colleen O'Brien was born on May 23, 1922 and died aged 24. However, in Episode 5 - , it is said that "April 27th" is "less than 2 days from now" and then Episode 8 - is said to be "May 8th", the first anniversary of V-E Day. This clearly puts the premiere at the very latest in mid-April 1946, overruling the props. The paper mentioning Colleen's death also shows dates from 2009 and 1996, despite it being set in 1946. Another example is that a newspaper in puts it in December 2013, when the film clearly, repeatedly says it is Christmas and "13 years" since December 1999, and thus December 2012, supported by other evidence as well . There are many, many examples of this sort of mistake - it should not overrule the very strong evidence putting the main events of in late June 2016. Finally, Happy's line about having the engagement ring on him since 2008. While this would suggest Iron Man 2 is in 2008, a huge amount of evidence negates this[3]. It can simply be taken that Happy has had an engagement ring on him since around the time just before Iron Man, whether it's simply for whomever Tony should want to marry, or an attempt to tie Tony down during his promiscuous days.

However, publications have hinged the whole MCU timeline around the one or two pieces of evidence placing Spider-Man: Homecoming in 2017. Numerous outlets have reported on how the timeline supposedly "works", with a solution along the lines of:

While well-intended, this is very ignorant of the TV shows also set in the MCU, and tonnes of evidence to the contrary (as well as, on a trying-not-to-sound-bitter personal note, disregarding years and years of work on the parts of timeline fans).

It is understandable that people would make these assumptions, as Spider-Man: Homecoming does indeed present this, and the large majority of fans do not have the time to have made detailed notes on every part of the timeline while watching every instalment in the MCU. But that is what us at the wiki, and on other forums, are here for. As people who are very - again, I'm happy to admit to being too - passionate about the timeline, it has been, in all honestly, a bit hurtful, stressful, and distressing reading/hearing/watching as people continue to discuss the topic as if they know the solution, based on minimal evidence.

What Is Marvel's Reason? What Is Their Timeline?

How Did "8 Years Later" Come to Happen?

Marvel's Apparent Film Timeline

If it's such a massive blunder, how did it come to happen? It's perhaps a little more understandable if someone going through were to decide thatis set in 2008, Fury's Big Week in 2009, andin 2010 (even if - yes, again - it doesn't fit with later major evidence), but it is very difficult to see why Marvel would insist onbeing pushed back all the way to 2009. However, that definitely appears to be the case. I believe their reasoning for this may come from a line in. I will address the many issues with this reasoning afterwards.In, Tony says, "1983 [...] I'm 14 years old," which would mean that Tony was born between January 2, 1968 and December 31, 1969.shows that Tony was 21 when he took over Stark Industries, a little while after his parents' deaths on, as we are told repeatedly in, "December 16, 1991". Considering Obadiah took over as interim CEO for a little while, Tony cannot possibly have taken over the company until at theDecember 23, 1991. This would mean that Tony must have been born on, or after, December 24, 1969, to still be 21 at some point on or after December 23, 1991.And overall, this gives very little leeway for his birthday - between December 24 and 31, 1969,The reason this is significant is becauseis set around Tony's birthday. So, if they have Tony's birthday in December, they must have wanted, with Tony celebrating his birthday, to be late in whichever year it is set, rather than in the middle of the year.And since it's 6 months after "I am Iron Man" (while the title card "6 months later" is unclear whether it is referring to "since "I am Iron Man"" or "since Vanko finished work on his suit", Hammer's dialogue in the senate scene confirms it refers to "I am Iron Man", Jon Favreau also confirmed it refers to "I am Iron Man" in the DVD commentary, and the official MCU timeline from 2012 in Avengers: The Art of Marvel's The Avengers confirms it as well), ifis late in its year, they must have placed it in theyear as "I am Iron Man" - with that being a bit before mid-year (instead of the evidence actually pointing tobeing the calendar year after, with "I am Iron Man" being late in the previous year).However, in, Peppersay that Tony slept with Christine "last year". Since they must be placingin 2008 (despite the many issues it creates), that must mean they have pushed the very beginning ofback into the previous year, 2007.There is a "JAN.2008"magazine in the Apogee award scene at the beginning, and that magazine was released onTony returns "3 months" later, which would mean they have it placed in March, and then the scene where Pepper helps Tony with his arc reactor features a TV with "May 4, 2008". As it stands otherwise, it's a problematic date that has to be taken as a continuity error with the slew of evidence further down the line that pusheslater than 2008, but I am sure they have gone with this date.Then, we know "I am Iron Man" is on the 25th of whichever month it is in, because Coulson books an appointment for "the 24th" and then arrives for it in the climax of, the day before the press conference. Considering they have to have made "I am Iron Man" as early as possible for there to be any chance of this working (as will be shown in a minute),What's the earliest date you can possibly call "6 months" after May 25, 2008? The very beginning of November, the 6th month after May:(again, forto just about squeeze into 2009, it has to be as early as possible, as will be explained).For it to work, they must also have considered the statement in the film that the Expo will run for a whole year to mean that there isdays remaining on opening day, not 365, therefore putting the scene where Tony appoints Pepper, which is when there is "362 days remaining" (shown on the screen), as soon as possible after that. So,Then, on Day 3 of Fury's Big Week, it is shown that there is "343 days remaining" of the Expo, so that has to be 19 days later, meaning the very earliest they could possibly have placed that is November 22, 2008 . This, in turn, means. This would also explain why Happy says inthat he has had Tony's engagement ring on him "since 2008" - Pepper and Tony got together the night of the Stark Expo battle. Tony then celebrates his birthday (on Fury's Big Week Day 1) a month before the actual day - I guess they would say because he knows he is dying. They literally cannot have his birthday party a single day later than November 20, 2008 ifis going to squeeze into 2009, because...The Duel of Harlem inis on Fury's Big Week Day 7, so that is November 26, 2008. Bruce then has an incident "31 days" later at the end of the film, soThen, finally, in, it is said that the events ofwere "last year", but when Bruce is picked up by Natasha, she says it has been "more than a year" since his last incident. So, the absolute,earliest they could possibly have that scene with Bruce and Natasha - if they were to use the "31 days without incident" British Columbia incident as the "last" incident she is referring to (some, admittedly only "inspired canon", comics have hinted he had more incidents after this one) - is December 28, 2009, exactly a year andafter.(meaningis still"last year").Which means that, finally, the veryearliest they canhave the... the last day of the year.Cut to "8 years later", Toomes' "business is good" scene, then Peter returns home after, andpicks up "two months later". And in that film, which is clearly set in September, it is shown that Aaron Davis was born in April 1984 and said that he is "33"... which, yes, on its own implies September 2017.This, by their timeline, places the "8 years later" scene no later than June 2017, just before Peter returns home from Germany. Just about, by the skin of its teeth, 8 years after the Toomes scene (7.48 years, 8 calendar years)... So, that is what I believe they have based their Phase One timeline around. Why they chose 2017 instead of 2016, ashad presented, I have no idea, but hey, none of this really makes sense.And a quick note on that before we move on - this is the main reason why "8 years later" is a problem. If it were only moving, it still wouldn't make sense, for many reasons, but it wouldn't be the end of the world because things could still continue as usual. But this apparent movement ofscrews up all the ongoing present day-set TV shows as well, and all the evidence they present. On top of that, thesequels are supposedly going to be set in subsequent school years, with Peter being a junior inand a senior in. While the correct timeline would place his sophomore year as beginning in September 2016, making his junior year September 2017-June 2018 and his senior year September 2018-June 2019, ifis being placed in 2017, this instead makes his junior year September 2018-June 2019 and his senior year September 2019-June 2020. "8 years later" essentially means that we can look forward to another several years of mess from upcoming films' placements in relation to Peter Parker's school years.

So, their timeline would shake out like:

Aaaaand it causes numerous major, major issues, breaking the whole universe's timeline. Fantastic! Let's take an even deeper dive.

The Many, Many Reasons This Does Not Work

Marvel's The Avengers Has to Be 2012 WhyHas to Be 2012

Some of these reasons are more important than others, ranging from comments from people involved and evidence from deleted scenes right up to exact, direct dialogue completely in-canon. They are arranged in the order that each piece of evidence came up (real world date).

Number 1

Number 2

Number 3

In the official canon (with a red MCU canon stamp) comic Marvel's The Avengers: Black Widow Strikes, it says at the beginning, "Note: This story takes place between the events of Iron Man 2 and Marvel's The Avengers." As Natasha travels to Sochi in Part Two, she says, "They're connecting the capital to Sochi on the coast, where the Winter Olympics will be held in two years."

The 2014 Sochi Winter Olympics were held from February 7-23, 2014, placing this in early 2012. At the very earliest, it could be late 2011, rounded to 2 years.

The argument could just about be made that the Winter Olympics are on different years in the MCU to the real world, but that would make very little sense - for the Winter Olympics to for some reason be a few years earlier, and coincidentally in exactly the same location.

With this clearly set in early 2012 (at the very earliest, late 2011), and Marvel's The Avengers being set after this, it again clearly shows that the film is in 2012, and at the very very earliest, late 2011.

Number 4

Iron Man 3 is set in December 2012 (well, technically January 2013, with Tony telling the story to Bruce Banner about the events in December 2012)[2]. Iron Man 3 is "months", roughly "6 months" after Marvel's The Avengers, as stated by set reports, somewhat confirmed by Feige, and apparently said in the Iron Man 3 Junior Novel. Some claim it is in a trailer/TV spot as well, though I have not found this yet. It is definitely the widely accepted time span as well.

Now, granted, this would be overruled by any direct dates/time spans shown/said in the films, but this otherwise fits with the evidence, and it certainly also seems like only several months.

Tony cannot have spent 3 or 4 years having anxiety attacks before he found out his diagnosis. The world would not still be reeling from the events in New York and asking him purely about that event all the time if it were now 3 or 4 years later. Tony, having spent all of his time designing more and more suits since New York - and when we know he can make a new suit very fast - cannot have only made 35 suits over 3 or 4 whole years, especially since Pepper thinks she's exaggerating when she says that she believes he's only made 8. Pepper cannot have been putting up with his introverted behaviour/lack of sleep etc. that we see her bothered by in the film for 3 or 4 years before mentioning it to him. Tony cannot have spent 3 or 4 years unable to sleep. 3.0 or 4.0 years would make it 6 or 8 times longer than the supposed "6 months". Thematically and clearly, Iron Man 3 is only months after Marvel's The Avengers. At an absolute maximum, it's a year.

Again, Marel's The Avengers is 2012 - at the very earliest from this, late 2011.

Number 5

In the official canon (with a red MCU canon stamp) comic, Marvel's Thor: The Dark World Prelude, Tony is shown asking Thor during the Battle of New York if he has ever watched Game of Thrones, and discussing the show's reputation. Yes, there is the slim chance that the show could have, for whatever reason, started several years earlier in the MCU than the real world, but still, in the real world the show started in April 2011, which would place it no earlier than then. It happens to fit nicely at the moment in May 2012, with it being in public consciousness in its second season and having had time to gain its reputation.

Number 6

Number 7

Number 8

Thor: The Dark World is firmly set in November 2013, and very very firmly in 2013[6]. Darcy Lewis says in the film, "He'll come back. Only, last time he was gone for, like, 2 years." This is seemingly a reference to the date Thor left Jane in Thor being 2 years earlier, which Kevin Feige all-but confirmed. This would mean Marvel's The Avengers (which, as explained above, is at least 13½ months after Thor) is only around "2 years" minus at least 13½ months = maximum roughly a year before Thor: The Dark World, making it 2012.

There is two other ways to take this: "Last time he left you, he was gone for, like, 2 years before he came back to Earth" (i.e. 2 years between Thor and Marvel's The Avengers, the fudged interpretation needed for Phase One to work), or, "Last time he left Earth he was gone for, like, 2 years before he came back to you" (i.e. 2 years between Marvel's The Avengers and Thor: The Dark World).

But even if this is taken to mean the latter, the longest possible interpretation, that still puts Marvel's The Avengers only 2 years before November 2013, meaning at the very earliest it is in 2011.

Number 9

Number 10

Number 11

Number 12

Marvel's Daredevil: Season 1 is firmly set in January-February 2015. It is very very firmly set no earlier than late 2014[8]. In Episode 1 - Into the Ring, Karen says, "The last 2 years have transformed [Union Allied]," and Matt responds, "Yeah, the world watched half of New York get destroyed." Clearly, everyone in New York knows that a reference to "the last 2 years" is referring to the time since the Battle of New York. This would imply that Marvel's The Avengers is set around 2013 - but it can just about work as 2012, as with this being said in early January 2015, it could be considered that she is referring to Union Allied's business in the last 2 complete calendar years, the full years of 2013 and 2014, since the battle - benefiting from the cleanup of New York. But it absolutely cannot be any earlier than 2012.

Also, on an extra note, with Marvel's Daredevil: Season 1 presenting itself as 2-3 years after the battle, but Captain America: Civil War being "8 years later", that would imply the film is set 5-6 years after Marvel's Daredevil: Season 1, which is just impossible and ludicrous. It should be only approximately 16 months... big difference.

Number 13

In Avengers: Age of Ultron, when Ultron wakes, he scrolls through files and images of the Avengers and their associates so as to learn. As he goes through the images, he sees an image of Maria Hill operating Helicarrier No. 64, taken on "APR 03/2012". Marvel's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.: Season 2, Episode 20 - Scars shows how the Helicarrier was stored away following the Battle of New York, to be kept in case of emergency as the "Theta Protocol" (which is put into effect for the Battle of Sokovia). This means that the only times that this picture could have been taken are in the time preceding or during the events of Marvel's The Avengers.

Therefore, again, Marvel's The Avengers cannot be any earlier than April 2012.

Number 14

Number 15

Number 16

Number 17

Captain America goes into the glacier in February 1945[4]. That is a fact. Then, in Captain America: The First Avenger, after Steve wakes, Fury says, "You've been asleep, Cap... for almost 70 years." This would imply about 66½-69¾ years. In Marvel's The Avengers, Steve says, "I slept for 70 years, sir," which can of course be a rough rounded figure, but implies about 67-73 years. However, in Spider-Man: Homecoming, Steve says he was "frozen for 65 years", and this is more specific than the 70, implying about 63½-66½ years. Overall, it can be seen that about 66½-66¾ years elapsed, which is the best way to satisfy all of these. You cannot really deviate much from that either way and have it still work.

This takes us to Autumn/Fall 2011 (it's specifically reasoned as October - again, see here).

Steve wakes not long before Marvel's The Avengers - anywhere from a few weeks to several months, placing Marvel's The Avengers no earlier than late 2011.

Number 18

Captain America: Civil War (and Thus Spider-Man: Homecoming) Has to Be 2016 Why(and Thus) Has to Be 2016

It should be noted thatbegins in May of the year it is set (which should definitely be 2016) with the Lagos scenes. It then cuts to the following month, when Steve and Wanda watch the news before General Ross arrives. The news refers to the Lagos incident as "last month". Ross then says the signing of the Accords is in Vienna "in 3 days", putting the Bombing of the Vienna International Centre 3 days later.In thecomic, it shows the bombing is "one month later" after the day of Lagos, which lines up - it's still June. The next day, Steve, Bucky, and Sam are caught and taken to Berlin, where Bucky escapes. Tony is given 36 hours and picks up Peter. The day after he was given the deadline, the airport battle occurs , and 48 hours later , Peter is dropped home, having been away for "the weekend" (from Thursday afternoon to the early hours of Sunday, as confirmed when,in the extended version of "A Film by Peter Parker" , the day after the Clash of the Avengers is shown to be "Samstag" , a Saturday). This cannot be later than late June, because it is said to still be during the school term - Peter is coming home from school, is worried about skipping school, and has homework to do.then cuts to "two months later", to the beginning of the rest of the film, the day before Liz's party. The party is later said to have been "Friday", and is a few days before the decathlon on "September 14th" (and 2 weeks before the homecoming dance on September 23rd ).So, it is early September, roughly 2.4 months from late June.These should all be 2016 - Lagos is May 3, 2016, as given by, lining up with the films' evidence perfectly. Ross visiting is Sunday, June 19, 2016 (which works as Lagos being "last month"), the Bombing of the Vienna International Centre is then Wednesday, June 22, 2016, which just about fits as "one month" after Lagos (1½ months, but 1 calendar month).Peter is picked up on Thursday - June 23, 2016, and returned in the early hours of Sunday, June 26, 2016 (only a few days before the end of term), before cutting to 2 months later (2.4 months, rounded) to Thursday, September 8, 2016.Even ignoring the fact that this lines up with, it is still definite that whatever year it is, Lagos is May, the main events are late June, andpicks up in early September.cannot be in July, as Peter is still in school. It has to be late June to still be school time and a rounded 2 months before early September, at the beginning of the new school year.





Some of these reasons are more important than others, ranging from comments from people involved right up to exact, direct dialogue completely in-canon. They are arranged in the order that each piece of evidence came up (real world date).

Number 1

In a behind-the-scenes photo of an order of service for Peggy's funeral, it clearly says "1921-2016", which would place Captain America: Civil War in 2016. Admittedly, this would be overruled by actual on-screen dates, but it lines up with the other evidence as well.

Number 2

Number 3

The WHiH World News series is proven to be set in real time, when the posts and episodes were made and released[9]. WHiH World News places the Lagos incident on May 3, 2016, which fits perfectly with the rest of Captain America: Civil War being in late June and referencing Lagos as "last month", as well as the Spider-Man: Homecoming Prelude cutting from the day of Lagos to the Vienna bombing "one month later". This is explained above. It works perfectly, and is very important, clearly corroborating the mid-2016 settings for Captain America: Civil War (and the end of Marvel's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.: Season 3). It cannot be moved, WHiH World News is firmly placed.

Number 4

In Captain America: Civil War, in Lagos, Steve looks at a recent newspaper about Crossbones, and it shows "2016 election conversations" as being on "March 22". The newspaper is implied to be very recent, and while ideally it would be the exact date of the Lagos attack, this does not fit with the fact that dialogue, on-screen references, and WHiH World News overrule it, meaning this scene has to be set in May, as explained above. However, it can taken to be reasonably recent (6-7 weeks ago) instead, but again, it clearly presents 2016 - as well as the fact it shows it is an election year.

Number 5

Number 6

In Captain America: Civil War, Sam, Steve, and Sharon discuss how suspicious it is that the Winter Soldier was found so fast. Sam says, "Steve, we looked for the guy for 2 years and found nothing." This would suggest that it has been 2 years since Captain America: The Winter Soldier, which is firmly set in January 2014[7].

While it could be suggested that Sam simply means that they searched for Bucky for 2 years before giving up, all other evidence points to this being 2 years and a few months since Captain America: The Winter Soldier, and it is absolutely not in-character for Steve to give up on Bucky. In Marvel's Captain America: Civil War Prelude Infinite Comic, it is also shown that Steve and Bucky are still following leads on Bucky right up to the day of the attack in Lagos.

2 years after early 2014 would place the film around early 2016 - the main events are set in June, however, making it June 2016.

Number 7

The main events of Ant-Man are set from July 17-early August 2015, and extremely firmly in the second half of 2015[11]. It can be assumed that after Scott and Hope's kiss, there is a time jump before the final minutes with the Langs' dinner and Sam looking for Scott. When Sam is shown to have been searching for Scott, there are references to a new superhero - "Well, we got everything nowadays. We got a guy who jumps, we got a guy who swings, we got a guy who crawls up the walls." Spider-Man is around.

In Captain America: Civil War, Peter says, "I've had these powers for 6 months." This is already stretched to the limit - it is assumed that by 6 months he is referring to "June - 6 months = December", so as early as possible, Peter got his powers on December 1, 2015. He started being Spider-Man by around December 10th, and Sam looks for Scott around December 13th, with the woman he speaks to having heard rumours of another new hero with those powers. This puts the Ant-Man dinner scene on December 14th, over 4 months after Hope and Scott's kiss, which is just about feasible - but it cannot be any longer.

If Captain America: Civil War were indeed set in 2017, this would mean there would need to be at least 16½ months between the scenes (because despite what their timeline might suggest, Ant-Man has to be in 2015 to fit at all with explicit dialogue from WHiH World News and Marvel's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D., as explained here[11]). Even if the "Friday 9 October" phone date in the film were taken as canon over WHiH World News, that is still an over-14-month jump. This is frankly impossible - that Paxton's boss wouldn't follow up on Scott's escape for 14-16½ months, that Scott would have spent 14-16½ months waiting for Paxton to get his record cleared, or to have a meal with his family to talk together about the incidents, or for Sam to look for Scott. And if Ant-Man were instead moved to 2016, it would break Marvel's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. and WHiH World News.

Number 8

In Captain America: Civil War, Zemo talks to Steve, Tony, and Bucky about his drive for revenge after his family died in the Battle of Sokovia. He tells them that since his family's deaths, he "thought about nothing else [than revenge] for over a year" until he enacted his plan, and Steve recognises this as referring to Sokovia - "You're Sokovian. Is that what this is about?" This suggests that it has been around 13-15 months since Avengers: Age of Ultron. With Avengers: Age of Ultron set firmly in Spring 2015[10], or a little bit later as Summer 2015 in this timeline, this places Captain America: Civil War around Summer 2016. This matches with the main events of the film being set in late June, making it 2016 - not 2017, which would be over 2 years.

Number 9

Number 10

Number 11

Number 12

The ticket for the homecoming dance in Spider-Man: Homecoming, revealed by an extra and then displayed officially at an event in Tokyo, shows "Friday September 23". This date lines up perfectly with the film's internal dates (such as the decathlon poster showing "September 14th" and the film beginning on September 8th, "two months" after Captain America: Civil War in late June), and 2016 was the year when September 23rd was a Friday.

While days of the week do not always match the dates in the MCU, there is no consistency to the offset difference, and there is sufficient evidence to suggest that the days of the week are the same in the MCU as in the real world[12].

Number 13

Jeffrey Mace mentions in Marvel's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.: Season 4, Episode 10 - The Patriot that "a few months" after the Bombing of the Vienna International Centre, he went through Project Patriot to become the director of S.H.I.E.L.D..

Very soon after this, when Mace has just taken over as director, the events of the flashbacks in Marvel's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.: Slingshot play out, and Mack and Coulson leave for the first of many trips (Mack mentions in Episode 2 - Meet the New Boss that they had many long trips: "It's these long deployments, Turbo. Weeks at a time") hunting Quake.

Coulson says in Episode 11 - Wake Up, "I spent 6 months on a plane with [Mack]", so they spent 6 months hunting Quake, returning to the Playground from their final trip in Season 4, Episode 1 - The Ghost.

Only about 4 weeks after The Ghost (cannot be any longer due to episodes being consecutive or references to "5 days ago" and the like), is Episode 11 - Wake Up, which also has Mack discussing his daughter, Hope. He says, "Hope was my daughter. She died [...] 11 years ago. My ex, Nicole, we had a life planned together. She got pregnant, we were happy. But when Hope was born, it was touch and go... she only lived for 4 days. Her story was over before it even started [...] Tomorrow's Hope's birthday, and Nicole has a hard time with it, that's why she texted me. So I went to see her, so she wouldn't be alone."

In Episode 7 - Deals with Our Devils, it is show very clearly that Hope's birthday was "4/18/06". Therefore, she died on April 22, 2006, and we are now 11 years later, April 2017. Tomorrow would be her birthday, so tomorrow is April 18th, making it firmly April 17, 2017.

This is corroborated later in the season. The implication is that Hope was prematurely born, but in the Framework reality the agents enter, Hope actually makes it through, presumably born at full term instead. This would make her birthday more like Summer 2006, and in Season 4, Episode 21 - The Return (in May 2017), Daisy tells Yo-Yo that Hope is "10" in the Framework.

Now, Working back, this also places the beginning of the season firmly in March 2017, around March 19, 2017[13]. Coulson and Mack left "6 months" prior, making that September 2016. Therefore, Mace went through Project Patriot around September 2016. This was "a few months" after the Vienna bombing, placing the Vienna bombing around March-June 2016. When does the Vienna bombing place from all the other evidence? June 2016, fitting perfectly with this, and not at all working if Captain America: Civil War has to be pushed into 2017.

In Season 4, Episode 13 - BOOM (still April 2017), there are also references to Radcliffe working with Hive, which was in the lead-up to and aftermath of Captain America: Civil War, being "last year", as well as Coulson killing Ward (a few months before Captain America: Civil War) "last year", again making events surrounding the film 2016, which would also be contradicted by any movements.

As can be seen, Season 4 is clearly and firmly set in March-May 2017, and picks up roughly 9 months after/the calendar year after the Vienna bombing. The Marvel's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.: Season 3 and 4 timeline worked out very nicely until Spider-Man: Homecoming, and has worked out nicely continuing on from this with Season 5, if one were to ignore "8 years later". Moving Captain America: Civil War would break their whole timeline, creating a myriad of continuity errors for the show.

Number 14

In Spider-Man: Homecoming, as Peter swings through the neighbourhood, he passes a bus with a poster for The Voice: Season 11. This season began on September 19, 2016, adding credence to this being September 2016, not 2017.

Number 15

In Spider-Man: Homecoming, on the Staten Island ferry, a car is shown with "6 16" and "2016" registration and inspection stickers. While this would suggest it is before June 2016, it cannot be, as it is September, and cannot be earlier than September 2016. However, being 3 months out-of-date is a lot more believable than it being 15 months out-of-date, suggesting much more that it is September 2016 rather than September 2017.

Number 16

Number 17

In Marvel's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. : Season 5, Episode 5 - Rewind , we see what happened to Fitz after his friends were transported into the future. When he asks Enoch, the alien who sent the agents into the future, where they are, Enoch responds, "Earth year 2-0-9-1". The next day, Fitz puts himself into cryogenic freeze, to wake up in 2091 and join his friends. It then cuts to "74 years later", to Fitz waking up a couple of days before his friends' arrival in 2091.

With 2091 being 74 years after Fitz going to sleep, that reaffirms that Fitz goes to sleep in 2017.

Fitz going to sleep is the day after he escapes from Blue Raven Ridge. That day is said to be "6 months" after his capture, and it is specifically shown to be 197 days (Fitz draws a monkey face on his wall every day he is in his cell, and it shows 197 monkey faces), 6.48 months. His capture is about 8 weeks (from dialogue, on-screen time references, consecutive events, etc.) after the beginning of Season 4. The beginning of Season 4 is "6 months" after the flashbacks of Marvel's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.: Slingshot , as said in Season 4, Episode 11 - Wake Up and explained above. Those flashbacks are a short amount of time after Mace became the Patriot. He became the Patriot "a few months", as said in Season 4, Episode 10 - The Patriot and explained above, after the bombing in Vienna in Captain America: Civil War .

So, Fitz going to sleep in 2017 is, in total, 1 day + 197 days + about 8 weeks + "6 months" + a short amount of time + "a few months" after the bombing in Vienna. This is absolute minimum 16½ months. This means that even if Fitz went to sleep on December 31, 2017, the bombing in Vienna would be absolute latest August 2016. And even if Fitz went to sleep at the absolute latest in June 2018 and wakes up in December 2091, and the "74 years" is rounded up from 73.5, 16½ months minimum back from late June 2018 would mean the Vienna bombing is absolute absolute latest February 2017.

And since the bombing is in June, and is definitely before August 2016, definitely before February 2017, then the latest it can be is clearly June 2016.

Also, actually working it through, it's 17 months. Fitz also has to go to sleep before December 2017, because a while after he goes to sleep, Episode 12 - The Real Deal shows it to be "12-06-2017". And it works out as: Late June 2016 - Vienna bombing. September 2016 - "A few months" later, Mace becomes the Patriot. Late September 2016 - Marvel's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.: Slingshot flashbacks. Mack and Coulson leave for their first trip. March 19, 2017 [13] - After "6 months" of trips, Coulson and Mack return to the Playground after their final trip in Season 4, Episode 1 - The Ghost . April 17, 2017 - Season 4, Episode 11 - Wake Up . 11 years since Hope Mackenzie died, which was "4 days" after her birth on "4/18/06". It's currently the day before what would have been her birthday. Roughly May 12, 2017 - Season 4, Episode 22 - World's End . Fitz is captured. Roughly November 25, 2017 - Fitz escapes Blue Raven Ridge 197 days later. Roughly November 26, 2017 - Fitz goes to sleep. "74 years later" is 2091. December 4, 2017 - The agents return from the future. The date they return to is after Fitz's escape from Blue Raven Ridge and him going to sleep, because the Quinjet is where he and Hunter left it on approximately November 26, 2017. December 6, 2017 - 2 days later, in Episode 12 - The Real Deal , Yo-Yo's monitor says "12-06-2017". More on that later...

In : Season 5, Episode 5 - , we see what happened to Fitz after his friends were transported into the future. When he asks Enoch, the alien who sent the agents into the future, where they are, Enoch responds, "Earth year 2-0-9-1". The next day, Fitz puts himself into cryogenic freeze, to wake up in 2091 and join his friends. It then cuts to "74 years later", to Fitz waking up a couple of days before his friends' arrival in 2091. With 2091 being 74 years after Fitz going to sleep, that reaffirms that Fitz goes to sleep in 2017. Fitz going to sleep is the day after he escapes from Blue Raven Ridge. That day is said to be "6 months" after his capture, and it is specifically shown to be 197 days (Fitz draws a monkey face on his wall every day he is in his cell, and it shows 197 monkey faces), 6.48 months. His capture is about 8 weeks (from dialogue, on-screen time references, consecutive events, etc.) after the beginning of Season 4. The beginning of Season 4 is "6 months" after the flashbacks of , as said in Season 4, Episode 11 - and explained above. Those flashbacks are a short amount of time after Mace became the Patriot. He became the Patriot "a few months", as said in Season 4, Episode 10 - and explained above, after the bombing in Vienna in . So, Fitz going to sleep in 2017 is, in total, 1 day + 197 days + about 8 weeks + "6 months" + a short amount of time + "a few months" after the bombing in Vienna. This is absolute minimum 16½ months. This means that even if Fitz went to sleep on December 31, 2017, the bombing in Vienna would be absolute latest August 2016. And and wakes up in December 2091, and the "74 years" is rounded up from 73.5, 16½ months minimum back from late June 2018 would mean the Vienna bombing is absolute latest February 2017. And since the bombing is in June, and is definitely before August 2016, before February 2017, then the latest it can be is clearly June 2016. Also, actually working it through, it's 17 months. Fitz also has to go to sleep before December 2017, because a while after he goes to sleep, Episode 12 - shows it to be "12-06-2017". And it works out as:

Number 18

Number 19

Number 20

In Marvel's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. : Season 5, Episode 5 - The Real Deal , 2 days after the team return from the future, Yo-Yo's monitor says that it is "12-06-2017". This means that the agents return the morning of December 4, 2017.

When the agents return, they return to a date that is after the events of Episode 5 - Rewind , because they go to pick up the Quinjet from where Fitz and Hunter left it in that episode, just before Fitz went into cryogenic freeze.

As explained above, in Rewind , we see that Fitz goes into cryogenic freeze the day after he escapes from Blue Raven Ridge. That day is said to be "6 months" after his capture, and it is specifically shown to be 197 days (Fitz draws a monkey face on his wall every day he is in his cell, and it shows 197 monkey faces), 6.48 months. His capture is about 8 weeks (from dialogue, on-screen time references, consecutive events, etc.) after the beginning of Season 4. The beginning of Season 4 is "6 months" after the flashbacks of Marvel's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.: Slingshot , as said in Season 4, Episode 11 - Wake Up and explained above. Those flashbacks are a short amount of time after Mace became the Patriot. He became the Patriot "a few months", as said in Season 4, Episode 10 - The Patriot and explained above, after the bombing in Vienna.

So, the team returning on December 4, 2017 is some time + 1 day + 197 days + about 8 weeks + "6 months" + a short amount of time + "a few months" after the bombing in Vienna. This is absolute minimum 16½ months. This means that even if the team returning on December 4, 2017 were the day after Fitz went into cryogenic freeze, the bombing in Vienna would be absolute latest July 2016. And since the bombing is in June, and definitely before July 2016, then the latest it can be is June 2016.

Also, actually working it through, it's 17½ months, and the team returns about 8 days after Fitz went to sleep. It works out as: Late June 2016 - Vienna bombing. September 2016 - "A few months" later, Mace becomes the Patriot. Late September 2016 - Marvel's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.: Slingshot flashbacks. Mack and Coulson leave for their first trip. March 19, 2017 [13] After "6 months" of trips, Coulson and Mack return to the Playground after their final trip in Season 4, Episode 1 - The Ghost . April 17, 2017 - Season 4, Episode 11 - Wake Up . 11 years since Hope Mackenzie died, which was "4 days" after her birth on "4/18/06". It's currently the day before what would have been her birthday. Roughly May 12, 2017 - Season 4, Episode 22 - World's End . Fitz is captured. Roughly November 25, 2017 - Fitz escapes Blue Raven Ridge. Roughly November 26, 2017 - Fitz goes to sleep. "74 years later" is 2091. December 4, 2017 - The agents return from the future. The date they return to is after Fitz's escape from Blue Raven Ridge and him going to sleep, because the Quinjet is where he and Hunter left it on roughly November 26, 2017. Yo-Yo's arms are cut off that night. December 6, 2017 - 2 days later, in Episode 12 - The Real Deal , Yo-Yo's monitor says "12-06-2017". Early 2018 - At least 4 weeks (1, 2) after Yo-Yo's arms were cut off, since her stumps have healed over, the events of Episode 14 - The Devil Complex play out. There is snow on the ground as well. The next day, in Episode 15 - Rise and Shine , events leading up to Captain America: Civil War are referred to as "2 years ago". More on that later...

In : Season 5, Episode 5 - , 2 days after the team return from the future, Yo-Yo's monitor says that it is "12-06-2017". This means that the agents return the morning of December 4, 2017. When the agents return, they return to a date that is after the events of Episode 5 - , because they go to pick up the Quinjet from where Fitz and Hunter left it in that episode, just before Fitz went into cryogenic freeze. So, the team returning on December 4, 2017 is some time + 1 day + 197 days + about 8 weeks + "6 months" + a short amount of time + "a few months" after the bombing in Vienna. This is absolute minimum 16½ months. This means that even if the team returning on December 4, 2017 were the day after Fitz went into cryogenic freeze, the bombing in Vienna would be absolute latest July 2016. And since the bombing is in June, and definitely before July 2016, then the latest it can be is June 2016. Also, actually working it through, it's 17½ months, and the team returns about 8 days after Fitz went to sleep. It works out as:

Number 21

Number 22

Number 23

Number 24

And the Other Problems...

This format is slightly different, with a scattered approach addressing all the issues with each piece of content's placement in the timeline, rather than the reasons why one thing is set in a specific year.

There will not be any issues with Marvel's The Avengers not being 2012 or Captain America: Civil War not being 2016 listed, as these have already been addressed. However, if one of the issues listed before also pertains to something else's placement, the issue with that being moved as a repercussion of this timeline will be addressed again, in that own event/episode/film's context.

It is nonetheless worth remembering that, of course, all the reasons previously listed for why Marvel's The Avengers should be 2012 also apply as problems for the film being placed in 2009, and all the reasons previously listed for why Captain America: Civil War should be 2016 also apply as problems for the film being placed in 2017.

Number 1

Number 2

Problem with moving Tony's date of birth to December 1969 - In a deleted scene from Marvel's The Avengers, the same file is shown, again with Tony's date of birth as "05/29/1970" - a date which perfectly matches all other evidence for his date of birth and for Iron Man 2, just does not quite match the Iron Man 3 line. Here, I analyse why May 29th fits almost perfectly with Iron Man 2. November, based on a December date of birth, does not fit at all.

Number 3

Problem with moving Tony's date of birth to December 1969 - In Tony's S.H.I.E.L.D. file on official display at a USC School of Cinematic Arts event, it is shown that he took over Stark Industries in "1992" - a date which perfectly matches the fact that it is shown in Iron Man that he was "21" when he took over the company, and since we are told elsewhere that he was born in May 1970. He would be 22-23 in 1992 if he were born in December 1969.

Number 4

Problem with moving Tony's birthday to December 1969 - In a deleted scene from Marvel's The Avengers, the same file is shown, again with the fact that he took over Stark Industries in "1992", which perfectly matches the fact that it is said in Iron Man that he was "21" when he took over the company - and we are told elsewhere that he was born in May 1970. He would be 22-23 in 1992 if he were born in December 1969.

Number 5

Problem with moving Tony taking over as CEO to December 1991 - In Tony's S.H.I.E.L.D. file on official display at a USC School of Cinematic Arts event, it is shown that he took over Stark Industries in "1992" - a date which perfectly matches the fact that it is shown in Iron Man that he was "21" when he took over the company - and we are told elsewhere that he was born in May 1970. This also gives him a more realistic amount of time after his parents' deaths on December 16, 1991 before he took over the company, not just 10 days of mourning and Stane being in charge.

Number 6

Problem with moving Tony taking over as CEO to December 1991 - In a deleted scene from Marvel's The Avengers, the same file is shown, again with the fact that he took over Stark Industries in "1992" - a date which perfectly matches the fact that it is said in Iron Man that he was "21" when he took over the company - and we are told elsewhere that he was born in May 1970. This also gives him a more realistic amount of time after his parents' deaths on December 16, 1991 before he took over the company, not just 10 days of mourning and Stane being in charge.

Number 7

Number 8

File:IMIAIM - The Next Day.png Problem with moving the span between Tony's escape/return to the U.S. and Pepper helping Tony with his arc reactor to March-May 4, 2008 - In the official canon comic Iron Man: I Am Iron Man! #1, after Tony's press conference on returning to the U.S., it goes to "the next day", to Pepper helping Tony with his arc reactor. This scene, in the film, follows Pepper watching Mad Money on TV and a "May 4" date being shown.

This fits with the 2012 official MCU timeline, since Iron Man 2 is firmly set in May, and has a multitude of evidence places the majority of the film "6 months" after "I am Iron Man", making "I am Iron Man" November. The official timeline then shows Tony's kidnapping as "9 mo" (9 months) before that, making it February, and Tony's return is said in Iron Man to be "3 months" later, naturally making it May, and fitting with the "May 4" date.

However, with this timeline placing Tony's kidnapping in December 2007, Tony's return must be in March 2008. With Pepper helping Tony with his arc reactor being May 4, 2008, this cannot work as "the next day" after his return.

Number 9

Number 10

Number 11

Problem with moving "I am Iron Man" to May 25, 2008 - The 2012 official MCU timeline places Steve crashing into the glacier as "64 years BIM" (before "I am Iron Man").

Steve's supposed death is very firmly in early February 1945[4]. If "I am Iron Man" is moved to May 2008, this is 63.3 (63 calendar) years, not 64.

Number 12

Problem with moving the gap between Iron Man and Iron Man 2 to May 25-November 1, 2008 - In the opening of Iron Man 2, it is shown that between Iron Man and Iron Man 2, Iron Man won the Time magazine "Person of the Year" award. This is always awarded in December of the respective year. If Iron Man 2 is moved to the same year as Iron Man, with the first finishing on May 25, 2008 and the second beginning on November 1, 2008, there is no December that falls between the two films.

Number 13

Number 14

Problem with moving Stark Expo opening to November 1, 2008 - The Iron Man 2 Stark Expo 2010 promotional campaign, which includes a letter supposedly written by Tony Stark explaining how it is the first Stark Expo since his return from the cave (so it is not just another Expo held a while after Iron Man 2), clearly indicates in its title (1, 2) that the Expo is 2010, not 2008.

Number 15

Number 16

Number 17

Number 18

Problem with moving the Grand Prix de Monaco Historique to November 2008 - The Grand Prix de Monaco Historique is a biannual event on even-numbered years, in May. It was held in May 2008 and in May 2010. It can be taken that the event is held on different dates in the MCU, but with Iron Man 2 moved to November 2008, this is completely different, and does not match the real-world dates or any logical explanation.

Number 19

Problem with moving Tony and Rhodey talking to November 2008 - In Iron Man 2, the day after the Monaco incident (Rhodey says in the scene that the fight with Vanko was "yesterday"), the date "05.06.2010" is shown on a computer. With this scene moved to November 2008, this does not work.

Number 20

Problem with moving Fury's Big Week Day 1 to November 20, 2008 - While I have not found the scene, several sources (1, 2) say that in an extended scene from The Incredible Hulk, it is said that Emil Blonsky was born on March 1, 1971. In the film, between May 15, 2010 ("1 day without incident") and May 31, 2010 ("17 days without incident", Fury's Big Week Day 3), Blonsky says that he is "39", placing this scene (correctly) between March 1, 2010 and February 28, 2011. However, if The Incredible Hulk is moved to late 2008, Blonsky would be 37, not 39.

Number 21

Problem with moving Fury's Big Week Day 4 to November 23, 2008 - During Fury's Big Week, on Day 4 (as shown on the 2012 official MCU timeline and in the Marvel's The Avengers Prelude: Fury's Big Week comic), Betty Ross says it is "Friday night". Despite some contradictions, there is sufficient proof that the days of the week for dates in the MCU match the days of the week for dates in real life[12]. Yet, with the only way this timeline can possibly work meaning that Day 4 of Fury's Big Week is on November 23, 2008, this is not a Friday, but a Sunday.

Number 22

Problem with moving Fury's Big Week Day 4 to November 23, 2008 - In Thor, when Selvig and Thor go for a drink, the song Walk by Foo Fighters can be heard playing in the bar. This song was not recorded until 2010 and not released until 2011, which would suggest that this scene cannot be as early as 2008.

Number 23

Problem with moving Fury's Big Week Day 5 to November 24, 2008 - In this interview, Kevin Feige confirms that Thor: The Dark World is intended to be set 2 years after Thor. Thor: The Dark World is firmly set in November 2013, very firmly in 2013[6]. Admittedly, the compromise for Phase One means it has been stretched to 3 years, but if Thor were moved to November 2008, this is 5.0 years, nowhere near 2.

The other option is that Thor: The Dark World is pulled earlier, but this is actually far worse, completely breaking Marvel's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. and that film's own timeline.

Number 24

Number 25

Problem with moving Marvel's The Avengers: Black Widow Strikes to December 2009 - In Marvel's The Avengers: Black Widow Strikes, it is said specifically, "Note: This comic takes place between the events of Iron Man 2 and Marvel's The Avengers," and the cover specifically calls it a prelude to Marvel's The Avengers. This would mean that absolute latest, by this timeline, it is December 2009.

In the comic, Natasha says talks about Sochi, saying, "Sochi on the coast, where the Winter Olympics will be held in two years." The Sochi Winter Olympics were held in February 2014. December 2009 is 4.2 (5 calendar) years from the Sochi Winter Olympics, not fitting as 2 years out by any stretch.

Number 26

Problem with moving Captain America: The First Avenger to December 2009 - In Captain America: The First Avenger, when Steve wakes up in present day, Nick Fury says to him that he has "been asleep for almost 70 years". Steve going into the glacier is very firmly in February 1945[4]. If he wakes up in December 2009, that is 64.8 (64 calendar) years. It is less than 65, actually closer to 60 than 70, and is also only 6 calendar decades - in no way is it "almost 70".

Number 27

Problem with moving Captain America: The First Avenger to December 2009 - In Marvel's The Avengers, Steve says that he "slept for 70 years". Steve going into the glacier is very firmly in February 1945[4]. If he wakes up in December 2009, that is 64.8 (64 calendar) years. It is less than 65, actually closer to 60 than 70, and is also only 6 calendar decades - in no way "70".

Number 28

Problem with moving the span between Iron Man and Marvel's The Avengers to May 2008-December 2009 - Kevin Feige made a statement in the lead-up to Spider-Man: Homecoming about how Peter Parker experienced the events of the MCU through his childhood (1, 2). While the ages he gave do not make much sense, placing Marvel's The Avengers about 6 years before Captain America: Civil War and thus not fitting either side of things, simply looking at the fact that his statement suggests that Peter was 4 years of age older in the Battle of New York than at "I am Iron Man" would mean that there is 3.003-4.997 years between those dates.

Now, as explained here, it absolutely cannot be more than 2½ years, so the current timeline doesn't quite fit with that either, but it's closer to fitting than this timeline, where it is only 1½ years.

Number 29

Number 30

Problem with possibly Marvel's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.: Season 1, Episode 1 - Pilot to anywhere before March 2013 (which would have to happen if Thor: The Dark World ends up pulled earlier, since this is a while before Thor: The Dark World) - In Marvel's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.: Season 1, Episode 14 - T.A.H.I.T.I., Triplett talks to Simmons about her friendship with Skye, asking, "You guys go back a ways?" Simmons replies, "Not really. A few months." This means that Episode 1 - Pilot, when they meet, is only a few months before T.A.H.I.T.I..

When we next see Garrett and Triplett 2 episodes later in Episode 16 - End of the Beginning, Triplett says, "Agent Garrett and I have been tracking [Deathlok] the last few weeks," referring to the time since Episode 14 - T.A.H.I.T.I.. End of the Beginning overlaps with Captain America: The Winter Soldier, thus meaning that Captain America: The Winter Soldier has to be a "few weeks + "a few months" after Episode 1 - Pilot.

They should be September 2013 and January 2014 respectively, but if Captain America: The Winter Soldier has been placed in October 2013, then Pilot has to absolutely be no earlier than March 2013. This does not work at all if they're insisting on pushing Thor: The Dark World back to 2010, 2011, or 2012, since Pilot is a while before Thor: The Dark World.

Number 31

Problem with possibly moving Marvel's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.: Season 1, Episode 1 - Pilot to anywhere before September 2013 (which would have to happen if Thor: The Dark World ends up pulled earlier, since this is a while before Thor: The Dark World) - In Marvel's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.: Season 1, Episode 1 - Pilot, it is shown that when Ward is promoted to Level 7, he receives his new ID, which clearly says it is valid from "2013SEP09". This places the scene on September 9, 2013. If really necessary, it can be taken to be after that date and his ID has not yet been replaced or has simply been upgraded in some way. However, this cannot work at all before September 9, 2013. This does not work on any level if they're insisting on pushing Thor: The Dark World back to 2010, 2011, or 2012, since Pilot is a while before Thor: The Dark World.

Number 32

Problem with possibly moving Marvel's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.: Season 1, Episode 5 - Girl in the Flower Dress to anywhere before September 2013 (which would have to happen if Thor: The Dark World ends up pulled earlier, since this is a while before Thor: The Dark World) - In Marvel's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.: Season 1, Episode 5 - Girl in the Flower Dress, it is shown when Miles Lydon is driving that his phone has files from "4/10/13" (April 10, 2013) and "9/8/13" (September 8, 2013). This means that Girl in the Flower Dress takes place no earlier than September 8, 2013 (which makes sense, since Pilot a few weeks prior is "2013SEP09", as explained above). This does not work at all if they're insisting on pushing Thor: The Dark World back to 2010, 2011, or 2012, since Girl in the Flower Dress is a while before Thor: The Dark World.

Number 33

Problem with possibly moving Thor: The Dark World to anywhere before September 2012 - Several cars are shown in London in Thor: The Dark World, each with a number plate. The latest number plate shown in the film is "CK62 LSN". The "62" number plates in the U.K. were for cars manufactured between September 2012 and March 2013, meaning that for a car to have a "62" number plate, it is at the very least September 2012. This does not work at all if they're insisting on pushing Thor: The Dark World back to 2010, 2011, or the first half of 2012.

Number 34

Problem with possibly moving Thor: The Dark World to anywhere before January 2013 - Taika Waititi said that "Thor spent two years on Earth hanging out with [Tony Stark]", referring to the time between Thor: The Dark World and Avengers: Age of Ultron. With Avengers: Age of Ultron firmly set in Spring 2015[10] or a little later, around Summer 2015 by this timeline, this means that Thor: The Dark World should indeed be 2013. This does not work at all if they're insisting on pushing Thor: The Dark World back to 2010, 2011, or 2012.

Number 35

Number 36

Problem with possibly moving Thor: The Dark World to anywhere before January 2013 - During the ending of Thor: The Dark World, a 2013 calendar is clearly visible behind Jane, placing the film firmly in 2013, which does not work if it has to be moved to earlier - 2012, 2011, or 2010.

Number 37

Problem with possibly moving Thor: The Dark World to anywhere before February 2013 - Iron Man 3 is firmly set in December 2012[2]. Marvel's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.: Season 1, Episode 1 - Pilot and subsequent episodes follow up on the release of Extremis from the film, placing the season beginning at least a little while after, in, at the very least, January 2013. A couple of months pass - at the very least a few weeks - from Episode 1 - Pilot to Episode 8 - The Well, which follows on immediately from the events of Thor: The Dark World.

Therefore, at the very earliest, Thor: The Dark World is February 2013, since it is minimum a couple of months since Iron Man 3. Moving the film any earlier than that, and more importantly, moving the film any earlier than Iron Man 3, completely breaks Marvel's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D., which definitively places the film after Iron Man 3.

Number 38

Problem with possibly moving Thor: The Dark World to anywhere before November 2013 - In Thor: The Dark World, when Darcy and Ian pick up Selvig from the mental hospital, his files say "14/11/13", placing the scene on November 14, 2013. This does not work if it has to be moved to earlier - 2012, 2011, or 2012.

But, with Darcy's dialogue, it would have to be pulled earlier... but then it can't because of Marvel's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. and other evidence[6]... There is no functional outcome for Thor: The Dark World in this timeline.

Number 39

Problem with possibly moving Marvel's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.: Season 1, Episode 11 - The Magical Place to anywhere before September 2013 (which would have to happen if Thor: The Dark World ends up pulled earlier, since this is less than "a few months" after Thor: The Dark World) - Marvel's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.: Season 1, Episode 14 - T.A.H.I.T.I. is set maximum a couple of months after Thor: The Dark World, since Simmons says that she has only known Skye for "a few months" since Episode 1 - Pilot, and that episode is a couple of months before Thor: The Dark World.

So, if Thor: The Dark World is pulled to 2010, 2011, or 2012, this also pulls Episodes 1-14, up to T.A.H.I.T.I. at least, into those years. This includes Episode 11 - The Magical Place, which is even sooner after Thor: The Dark World.

However, in The Magical Place, Vanchat's latest bank statement is shown to have been "21/09/13". Therefore, this has to be later than September 21, 2013. Since this is soon after Thor: The Dark World, then that film cannot work if it has been pushed back to earlier than Summer 2013.

Number 40

Problem with possibly moving Marvel's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.: Season 1, Episode 12 - Seeds to anywhere before January 2013 (which would have to happen if Thor: The Dark World ends up pushed back, since this is less than "a few months" after Thor: The Dark World) - As explained above, Marvel's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.: Season 1, Episode 14 - T.A.H.I.T.I. is set maximum a couple of months after Thor: The Dark World, since Simmons says that she has only known Skye for "a few months" since Episode 1 - Pilot, and that episode is a couple of months before Thor: The Dark World.

So, if Thor: The Dark World is pulled to 2010, 2011, or 2012, this also pulls Episodes 1-14, up to T.A.H.I.T.I. at least, into those years. This includes Episode 12 - Seeds, which is even sooner after Thor: The Dark World.

However, in Seeds, Coulson passes on the information from Richard Lumley to Skye, saying, "24 years ago, an entire S.H.I.E.L.D. team in a small village was massacred in attempt to secure you." This is referring to the massacre in Hunan Province just before Skye is dropped off at St. Agnes Orphanage on, as shown in Episode 5 - Girl in the Flower Dress, "04-23-89". This is reaffirmed to be 1989 in Season 2, Episode 8 - The Things We Bury, when it shows it to be "44 years later" after "1945".

So, Seeds is set in 2013, 24 years after 1989. However, since this is soon after Thor: The Dark World, then that film cannot work if it has been pushed back to earlier than late 2012.

Number 41

Problem with possibly moving Marvel's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.: Season 1, Episode 14 - T.A.H.I.T.I. to anywhere before September 2013 (which would have to happen if Thor: The Dark World ends up pulled earlier, since this is less than "a few months" after Thor: The Dark World) - As explained above, Marvel's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.: Season 1, Episode 14 - T.A.H.I.T.I. is set maximum a couple of months after Thor: The Dark World, since Simmons says that she has only known Skye for "a few months" since Episode 1 - Pilot, and that episode is a couple of months before Thor: The Dark World.

However, in Episode 16 - End of the Beginning, which overlaps with Captain America: The Winter Soldier, Triplett says that since Episode 14 - T.A.H.I.T.I., he and Garrett have been tracking Deathlok for a "few weeks". While Captain America: The Winter Soldier should be in January 2014[7], this timeline seemingly has it placed in October 2013, which would mean that at the latest, T.A.H.I.T.I is September 2013.

Since this is only a couple of months since Thor: The Dark World, then that film cannot work if it has been pushed back to earlier than Summer 2013.

Number 42

Number 43

Problem with possibly moving Iron Man 3 to December 2013 - Iron Man 3 is set at Christmas time, with the final battle the night of Christmas Eve-Day. New Year 1999-2000, as shown in the Bern flashbacks, is referred to as being 13 years ago when Killian states, "You know, I invited Tony to join A.I.M. 13 years ago," and Tony says to Maya, "And here you are 13 years later." 13 years after New Year 1999-2000 gives New Year 2012-2013, and with this being Christmas, Christmas 2012 is therefore only a few days out from 13 exact years, as opposed to Christmas 2013 being a few days under 14 years.

Tony also says to Maya earlier in the film, "Please don't tell me there's a 12-year-old kid waiting in the car that I've never met." They slept together on December 31, 1999, which, if she had become pregnant, would have meant she gave birth around September 2000, making the child 12 years old from September 2012-September 2013 - and with it being December, again, it must be December 2012.

Number 44

Problem with possibly moving Iron Man 3 to December 2013 - Marvel's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.: Season 1, Episode 1 - Pilot is firmly set in September 2013[5]. It also follows up on the release of Extremis in Iron Man 3, showing that Iron Man 3 is set before September 2013 - again, December 2012.

Number 45

Number 46

Problem with possibly moving Iron Man 3 to December 2013 - Iron Man 3 presents itself as clearly being only months after Marvel's The Avengers. This already does not fit with the move of Marvel's The Avengers to 2009, making it 3 years between the two films, and would work even less with Iron Man 3 moved to 2013, 4 years later.

Tony cannot have spent 4 years having anxiety attacks before he found out his diagnosis. The world would not still be reeling from the events in New York and asking him purely about that event all the time if it were now 4 years later. Tony, having spent all of his time designing more and more suits since New York - and when we know he can make a new suit very fast - cannot have only made 35 suits over 4 whole years, especially since Pepper thinks she's exaggerating when she says that she believes he's only made 8. Pepper cannot have been putting up with his introverted behaviour/lack of sleep etc. that we see her bothered by in the film for 4 years before mentioning it to him. Tony cannot have spent 4 years unable to sleep.

Number 47

Problem with possibly moving Iron Man 3 to December 2013 - Marvel's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.: Season 1, Episode 1 - Pilot follows up on the release of Extremis in Iron Man 3, and Season 1 goes on to show the events of Thor: The Dark World and Captain America: The Winter Soldier. Therefore, Thor: The Dark World and Captain America: The Winter Soldier are both definitively set after Iron Man 3. However, if Iron Man 3 were moved to December 2013, it would take place at least after Thor: The Dark World - and by this timeline, it would be taking place after both films, which is simply impossible.

Number 48

Problem with moving Captain America: The Winter Soldier to October 2013 - When Fury's fake gravestone is shown at the end of Captain America: The Winter Soldier, flowers obscure the final number of his year of death. As established, the only possible years are 2013 or 2014.

If you look closely, the pointed top of the number, as well as the fact that if it were a "3", the curved top of the number would be visible, mean that it is a 4, and the gravestone says "2014". The closer you look, the more it can be seen that there is no other number it can be than a "4". This does not work if the film is moved earlier to 2013.

Number 49

Problem with moving Avengers: Age of Ultron to Summer 2015 - WHiH World News is proven to be set in real time[9]. On June 1, 2015, they posted about Thor having disappeared, left Earth. This means that the end of Avengers: Age of Ultron is before June 2015, and this ending is at least a few weeks after the Battle of Sokovia, for Howard Stark's warehouse to have been converted into the New Avengers Facility and Nathaniel Barton to have been born. This does not work if the Battle of Sokovia is moved later, into summer.

Number 50

Problem with possibly moving Ant-Man to 2016 - WHiH World News is proven to be set in real time[9]. Throughout July 2015, WHiH World News mentions that Scott is due to be released on "July 17th", placing Scott's release at the beginning of Ant-Man on July 17, 2015. On July 15, 2015, WHiH World News posted after an interview with Daren Cross that his ""astonishing" new venture [is] to debut this week." This means that his announcement of the Yellowjacket suit after Scott's arrest has to be within the week of July 15th (no earlier than July 19th, since it's after Scott's release and his firing from Baskin-Robbins at the very least a couple of days later). In that scene, Mitchell Carson says he will return to purchase the suit in "2 weeks", with his return for purchase being the climax of the film, placing that in early August 2015. While a "Friday 9 October" date is shown on Darren Cross' phone in the climax, this is overruled by WHiH World News (although, it would also suggest 2015 - October 9th was a Friday in 2015). There is no possible time jump.

If Ant-Man is moved to 2016, this disregards all of the July 2015 campaign from WHiH World News and the evidence listed.

Number 51

Number 52

Problem with possibly moving Ant-Man to 2016 - In Marvel's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.: Season 3, Episode 1 - Laws of Nature, the day before Simmons gets back from her 4,722 hours on Maveth (which began a few days after the climax of Avengers: Age of Ultron, firmly in April-May 2015[10]) from May-November 2015, Coulson mentions that during Simmons' time being missing, "After hearing about the Pym Technologies disaster, [Fitz] even thought she'd been reduced to a microscopic level."

So, the climax of Ant-Man takes place between May and November 2015, matching nicely as August 2015. A month into Simmons' time on Maveth, shown in Episode 5 - 4,722 Hours, she actually explicitly confirms that it is "2015" as well.None of this works with it being 2016.

With this timeline still placing Avengers: Age of Ultron around mid-2015, and Simmons going to Maveth only a few days after the Battle of Sokovia, then the Pym Tech incident being within 6½ months of that, this also means that the Pym Tech incident absolutely has to be less than 7 months after the Battle of Sokovia. The incident simply cannot be pushed back past late 2015 due to the incredibly specific time span given in 4,722 Hours.

Number 53

Number 54

Problem with moving the span between Iron Man and Captain America: Civil War to May 2008-June/July 2017 - In Captain America: Civil War, Vision says, "In the 8 years since Mr. Stark announced himself as Iron Man." While it can be taken that he is counting inclusively, with the gap being May 2008 and June/July 2017 this would be more than 9 years, and does not particularly work as 8.

Number 55

Number 56

Problem with possibly moving Captain America: Civil War to July - Marvel's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.: Season 3, Episode 13 - Parting Shot is set several days after Episode 11 - Bouncing Back, the episode which shows that Episode 22 - Ascension (a few days after the battle in Siberia in Captain America: Civil War) is "three months from now". So, Parting Shot would be in April if Captain America: Civil War is in July.

However, in Parting Shot, the Russians mention that it is "the dead of winter". While Russian winter can be considered to last a little longer considering the cold weather, by April, it is in no way still "the dead of winter".

Number 57

Problem with possibly moving Captain America: Civil War to July - When Tony picks up Peter Parker in Captain America: Civil War, it is clearly still school time. Peter is worried about missing school if he goes to Germany and has homework that he needs to get done. If Captain America: Civil War is moved to July, this is during the summer holidays in New York, not working.

Number 58

Problem with moving the span of Marvel's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.: Season 3 to late 2015 through to mid-2017 (which would have to happen if Captain America: Civil War is moved to mid-2017) - Marvel's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.: Season 3, Episode 2 - Purpose in the Machine picks up 4,722 hours (as chronicled in Episode 5 - 4,722 Hours) after the Monolith took Simmons to Maveth in Season 2, Episode 22 - S.O.S. Part 2, several days after the climax of Avengers: Age of Ultron in early May 2015[10] - possibly a bit later, more like Summer 2015, according to this timeline. Therefore, Season 3 picks up in late 2015 - late November 2015 by the correct timeline. However, the season ends in the days following Captain America: Civil War. If the film is moved to mid-2017, this would mean the season would have to span over a year-and-a-half, which is impossible.

Episodes 1-3 are consecutive, Episode 4 refers to Episode 3 as "last week", and Episodes 4-8 are also consecutive, taking Episode 8 to about 2 weeks after Episode 1 - December 2015. Episodes 9 and 10 are effectively a two-parter, stuck together, a little while after Episode 8. Then, Episode 11 is another little while later, set firmly 3 months from the finale, Episode 22, since it flashes forward to events from Episode 22 "three months from now".

Episode 22 - Ascension is a few days after the battle in Siberia from Captain America: Civil War, and if that has been moved to June/July 2017, that means that Episode 11 - Bouncing Back takes place in March/April 2017. This would therefore mean that 15-16 months has to pass between Episode 8 and Episode 11, with only two possible gaps, between 8 and 9, and between 10 and 11.

This cannot work. Episode 9 is presented as being only a few weeks after Episode 8 due to character behaviour and Andrew Garner's beard from his incarceration time. Episode 11 is presented as only being another several weeks after Episode 10, with Coulson only following up with President Ellis about the ATCU, the team being unsure about Lincoln, who has just joined the team in Episode 10 - Maveth, Fitz still feeling uncomfortable from having destroyed Will's body in Episode 10, and Hive still recuperating, having only recently got back from Maveth in Episode 10.

The agents don't bother finding Andrew Garner for 7 or 8 months between Episodes 8 and 9? There is no sense of urgency from the agents for those 7 or 8 months? Nothing happens for those 7 or 8 months? Coulson and Rosalind are only just discussing what happened in Episode 8, 7 or 8 months later? Garner only grows a small beard in 7 or 8 months? And then again, from Episodes 10 to 11 - Hive doesn't bother to do anything for 7 or 8 months? Fitz is still worried and talking to people about having recently destroyed Will's body on Maveth, 7 or 8 months later? President Ellis is only following up on Rosalind's death and the ATCU needing a new leader 7 or 8 months later? Nothing happened and there was again no urgency for 7 or 8 months? The team are just discussing Lincoln 15-16 months after he moved into the Playground and 7 or 8 months after he joined the team? No more than 3 months, absolute maximum 4 months can possibly pass between Episode 8 and Episode 11, but this would ask us to believe that 4 or 5 × the maximum amount of time passes.

In the correct timeline, it works out nicely, with Episode 8 - Many Heads, One Tale finishing in December 2015, Episodes 9 and 10 taking place 1½ months later in late January 2016, and then Episode 11 - Bouncing Back picking up 1½ months after that in March 2016, 3 months before Episode 22 - Ascension in late June 2016, just after Captain America: Civil War.

Number 59

Number 60

Number 61

Number 62

Number 63

Problem with moving Marvel's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.: Season 4, Episode 11 - Wake Up later than April 2017 (which would have to happen if Captain America: Civil War is moved to June/July 2017) - In Marvel's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.: Season 4, Episode 11 - Wake Up, Mack says, "Hope was my daughter. She died [...] 11 years ago. My ex, Nicole, we had a life planned together. She got pregnant, we were happy. But, when Hope was born, it was touch and go... she only lived for 4 days. Her story was over before it even started [...] Tomorrow's Hope's birthday, and Nicole has a hard time with it, that's why she texted me. So I went to see her so she wouldn't be alone." In Episode 7 - Deals with Our Devils, Mack is shown holding a photo of Hope, with her date of birth, "4/18/06". So Hope was born on April 18, 2006, and lived until April 22, 2006. It is now 11 years later, April 2017, and is the day before her birthday, so April 17th. The date is firmly April 17, 2017.

This is corroborated later in the season. The implication is that Hope was prematurely born, but in the Framework reality the agents enter, Hope actually makes it through, presumably born at full term instead. This would make her birthday more like Summer 2006, and in Season 4, Episode 21 - The Return (in May 2017), Daisy tells Yo-Yo that Hope is "10" in the Framework.

The events of Episode 11 - Wake Up are 10 months after Captain America: Civil War.

As explained above, in Episode 10 - The Patriot, Mace says that he went through Project Patriot "a few months" after the bombing in Vienna. Soon after, he became the director of S.H.I.E.L.D., and soon after that, the flashbacks of Marvel's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.: Slingshot take place. "6 months" later, as said in Episode 11 - Wake Up, Coulson and Mack return to the Playground after their final trip, in Season 4, Episode 1 - The Ghost, March 2017[13]. This is now 4 weeks later. This would mean that at least 9 months have passed, and it matches with the dates presenting 10 months.

If Captain America: Civil War is moved to June/July 2017, this means that these events cannot take place until March/April/May 2018. This does not match at all with the dialogue about Hope. It would have been 12 years, and she would have been 11 in the Framework.

Number 64

Problem with moving Marvel's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.: Season 5, Episode 5 - Rewind to November 2018 (which would have to happen with Captain America: Civil War moved to June/July 2017) - The last two-thirds of Marvel's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.: Season 5, Episode 5 - Rewind is set 17 months after the main events of Captain America: Civil War.

As explained above, in Episode 10 - The Patriot, Mace says that he went through Project Patriot "a few months" after the bombing in Vienna. Soon after, he became the director of S.H.I.E.L.D., and soon after that, the flashbacks of Marvel's Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.: Slingshot take place. "6 months" later, as said in Episode 11 - Wake Up, Coulson and Mack return to the Playground after their final trip, in Season 4, Episode 1 - The Ghost, March[13]. About 4 weeks later, Mack says that tomorrow is Hope's birthday, making it April 17th. Another 3½ weeks pass and Fitz is taken into incarceration around May 12th. He then spends 197 days, as shown in Season 5, Episode 5 - Rewind, imprisoned, before he escapes. So, in total, it has been "a few months" + "some time" + "6 months" + about 8 weeks + 197 days since the bombing in Vienna, meaning at least 16½ months, and matching with it being late November, 17 months since the bombing in late June of the year before.

The day after Fitz escapes from his 197-day imprisonment, he goes into cryogenic freeze, to wake up a couple of days before his friends' arrival in the year 2091 (Enoch says in the episode that the agents are in "Earth year 2-0-9-1"). The episode then cuts to him waking up, "74 years later".

However, if Captain America: Civil War is moved to June/July 2017, that means that this is now November 2018. Even if Fitz were waking in December 2091, the very latest possible, this is only 73.1 years/73 calendar years. This does not work with the explicit "74 years".

Number 65

Number 66

Number 67

What Can Be Done?

By Marvel

When I found out in October 2017 that Kevin Feige had addressed the "8 years later", I was excited to hopefully finally put this all behind us. To finally perhaps have a confirmation of it being a mistake, allowing us to discard it, shrug it off, breathe a huge sigh of relief, move on. I was gutted and stressed to hear that instead of this, Feige had stood by the text, and revealed what I had feared - that Marvel intend on releasing an official timeline soon. Feige is an incredible man whom I have the utmost respect for, and he has created this incredible achievement in cinema, with the help of everyone else at Marvel Studios and Marvel Television. I can never thank them enough for what they have given us, and they owe us absolutely nothing. But I'm just going to address what I would like to see, with hopefully a bit of a sense of realism.

I have tried to remain simply upbeat or factual during this blog post because otherwise it could easily come across as too bitter. However, please do allow me 1 minute to be candid. As you can no doubt guess, I am OCD and a huge part of what attracted me to the Marvel Cinematic Universe was a respite from problems in life, disappearing into this world. A big part of the construction of that world, in my mind, is its interconnected timeline and the problem-solving around it. For years, I have devoted spare time to, or distracted myself with, the challenge, and found a sense of accomplishment when results are completed, timelines constructed, watch orders worked out. To see it ignored has actually hurt, and watching the Internet's response in the time since Spider-Man: Homecoming has genuinely repeatedly affected me a bit. It stresses me and frustrates me to see people who think they know the answer spread the word about how it "actually works" and how "Homecoming is set in 2017" and "Avengers is actually 2010" or "2009".

Spider-Man: Homecoming was a wonderful film that I enjoyed very much, but I cannot see anything about it come up - a video about the film, an article, or any other media - without panicking and thinking "please don't try to address the timeline". I have an ongoing background anxiety every time I check articles that today will be the day the "official timeline" is released. I have felt pressured to complete the huge project compiling every single note I have, so as to be ready in time for the release of this official timeline, but had to tell myself that I have to focus on urgent personal matters. I've then been concerned that this timeline will be released at the worst possible time, just around Avengers: Infinity War either in its own press release or in an artbook like the 2012 timeline, when I have urgent and important matters coming up that mean I do not have time to be on the wiki until late June 2018 - and everything with the timeline could end up being left in disarray. People on all sorts of media have been spreading the wrong message and instead of the timeline being a fun venture of escapism, it has been a stressful, incredibly time-consuming (falling at a a time in my life where time is short and of the utmost importance) challenge that has become sometimes saddening and given a feeling of constant defeat instead of achievement.

I can't just give it up, because I have devoted too much so far and care a lot, and people are relying on me as one of the top couple of timeline users on this website. I know, it's probably my fault for becoming too invested... "Who cares?", right? I let myself care too much. But this blog, while tedious to write, has been somewhat of a relief for me. It's my chance to get everything off my chest, and I will be sending this around where I can, so that even if everything continues to go wrong, at least I can hopefully feel that I have done what I can on my part.



Now, obviously, in an ideal world, I'd love to see an MCU timeline released which perfectly matches our years of work and reaffirms everything, and Marvel to say, "Hey, we're sorry we messed up with "8 years later" and we know it's meant a lot to some people, we acknowledge it's a big mistake," and everything's fine. But that's highly unlikely to happen.

What is realistic? Well, Feige suggested in October 2017 that the belief that "8 years later" is wrong seems to simply come from an assumption of "real time" settings, which I hope the over-100 reasons listed above has, at the very least, proven is not the case, or else this has achieved nothing😂. I would really appreciate an acknowledgement that there are impossible-to-reconcile contradictions in the films (and shows).

I also appreciate that Feige has said that they won't do things the same way again, since "8 years later" was not even necessary when it could have instead cut to simply "years later" or "present day". If an aim is made to be a bit less specific, that would help, allowing timeline fans more flexibility to fit with other evidence.

Another suggestion would perhaps be some more attention being paid to online timeline discussions from fans like myself. This might also really help to keep track of all the evidence.

I am also aware that there are difficulties between Marvel's film and television divisions, but some more awareness and conversation pertaining to timelines between the two divisions would also benefit the timeline a lot, if it were at all possible.

I'm not good on what is and is not a realistic ask, and I must keep the perspective that the quality of the films obviously matters more than the timeline details, but something more than, "No, it pretty much works," would be nice. But Marvel, if you're reading this, well... I'm certainly not against a renouncement of "8 years later" and reaffirmation of all our work😂! And, as should not be forgotten, despite these quibbles, I would want thank Marvel so much for making incredible films and changing my life.

The line in Avengers: Infinity War, as mentioned at the top of the article, effectively got rid of the "8 years later" problem. Sure, there was all this evidence before that contradicted it, but this was evidence released after Spider-Man: Homecoming, when general audiences were paying attention, and in the films, not just the shows that many people don't watch. If this was intentional, it's surprising since as late as October 2017 (after Avengers: Infinity War had wrapped filming), Feige was standing by it. But nonetheless, thank you Marvel for listening to the fans and correcting the mistake. If it was an accident coming from, again, a lack of coordination at Marvel STudios, it's a happy accident, and Marvel would do well to just stick by it.

By Us

Wiki administrators permitting, something that we can do is, hopefully, not take the "official timeline" as gospel. Hopefully, this "official timeline" will not be released until after my full project is done and we are more prepared.

Our system will not change, our ethos remains that we always assess all the evidence and find the best possible solutions, even if they're sometimes compromises, to best satisfy all of the available evidence.

If, and inevitably when, this timeline is released, it will be incorporated into the system like everything else. And while everything currently is pretty nicely and firmly placed, with Phase One being the only compromises, it will instead throw the timeline into constant flux, with different events teetering on the edges of falling towards different dates.

And it's going to be a horrible uphill battle against the people who are going to simply look at the "official timeline" and take it as gospel, and people will lose faith in the wiki timeline if it doesn't match it, and it's going to be a mess moving forwards. It would be a lot easier to just abide by the official timeline, but it alienates everything TV-related and they are equally canonical, as well as ignoring a lot of evidence and the years of work. All the evidence still has to be considered. It's going to cost a lot of time and effort and stress and difficulty and make the job 10 × harder than it already is, just like how "8 years later" made the job 10 × more arduous. But that's all we can do. Hopefully, links such as this article and my upcoming project can help me, with the links at-the-ready for any doubters who ask questions.

Conclusion

If you have made it this far, I applaud and thank you. I am incredibly grateful for even a skim-read, because I get that this is long and tedious.

I hope that these over-100 reasons are enough to persuade you that "8 years later" is indeed a mistake, and would break the whole Marvel Cinematic Universe timeline.

I will soon work properly on my project to write up every single timeline note and all the maths and everything in one place.

As well as this, recently, myself and other timeline users have been writing out full references for the references section of the decade/year pages, starting at Before 20th Century. These aim to explain every placement for every event in the timeline for readers who wish to understand. Currently, the references sections can be a little messy in places or underwritten, and not each and every event on each and every page had been thoroughly checked - the wiki is open to all users to edit, and so many things slip through the cracks. But that is another job to do soon. We will continue to improve the quality of the articles and references.

However, the shortened version of the film timeline is:

Check the year articles from Before 20th Century to 2091 for the exact placements of every event (this is very much separate from the page titled "Timeline", which is run by admins on a simple real time policy), and also, if you're interested, you can see my IMDb list for the full watch order of the MCU, constantly being kept up-to-date.

Feige also mentioned in October 2017 that he likes the system, like Star Wars, of a timeline coming from "years before" and "after" a certain event (Star Wars has "BBY" and "ABY", before and after the Battle of Yavin from Star Wars Episode IV: A New Hope), and that their main event is Tony Stark announcing himself to the world as Iron Man. This was the system used in the the 2012 official MCU timeline, with "BIM" and "AIM". There is a strong possibility that the timeline at Marvel Studios is purely done like that, which would explain some issues, if they are going simply by dialogue and ignoring actual dates. This is too difficult to address in a blog post, so I will simply address it in an extra note here.

If Marvel are purely working off a system without dates, then they have likely worked it out as something like:

0 - "I am Iron Man".

6 months AIM - Beginning of Iron Man 2 . From the title card in Iron Man 2 .

. 6 months AIM - Fury's Big Week.

7 months AIM - End of The Incredible Hulk . "31 days without incident".

. 20 months/1.7 years AIM - Marvel's The Avengers . Said to be "over a year" since Bruce's last incident, assuming they are using the British Columbia incident as his last one. The events of Thor are mentioned to be "last year".

. 19 months/1.6 years AIM - Captain America: The First Avenger . Not long before Marvel's The Avengers .

. 26 months/2.2 years AIM - Iron Man 3 . Said to be 6 months since Marvel's The Avengers .

. 31 months/2.6 years AIM - Thor: The Dark World . Said to be 2 years since Thor , which would make it roughly 30 months AIM, and 1 year since Marvel's The Avengers , which would make it roughly 32 months AIM - overall, about 31 months.

. 106 months/8.8 years AIM - Main events of Captain America: Civil War . Said by Vision to be 8 years since "I am Iron Man", which would make it roughly 96 months AIM. Shown in Spider-Man: Homecoming to be after a scene "8 years" after Marvel's The Avengers , which would make that scene roughly 116 months AIM. I don't know what made them choose for it to be 8 years after Marvel's The Avengers since before Spider-Man: Homecoming , the evidence just by this sort of timeline would have placed the film at 96 months/8.0 years, only 76 months/6.33333 years after the Battle of New York - but hey, none of this makes sense. Assuming the main events of Captain America: Civil War are very soon after this scene, because it's already too long even by this timeline, then that would make the main events of the film roughly 116 months AIM. Overall, roughly 106 months AIM.

. 105 months/8.8 years AIM - Opening of Captain America: Civil War . Said to be "last month" as the main events begin, and shown in Spider-Man: Homecoming Prelude that the Vienna bombing was "1 month later" after the attack in Lagos.

. 100-101 months/8.3-8.4 years AIM - Ant-Man . Said in Captain America: Civil War that Peter has had his powers for "6 months". That would suggest he got his powers around 100 months AIM, and became Spider-Man around 100-101 months AIM. At the end of Ant-Man , Spider-Man is referenced as having recently began appearing.

. 106-107 months/8.8-8.9 years AIM - Black Panther . Said to pick up "a week" after T'Chaka's death.

. 108 months/9.0 years AIM - Spider-Man: Homecoming . Shown to be "two months later" after the main events of Captain America: Civil War .

. 106-107 months/8.8-8.9 years AIM - Thor: Ragnarok . Brad Winderbaum revealed that the film is supposed to be set around the time of Captain America: Civil War and Spider-Man: Homecoming . Apparently the blu-ray says it is set at the same time as Captain America: Civil War . With those around 106 and 108 months AIM, that would make this approximately 106-107 months AIM.

. Roughly 101 months/8.4 years AIM - End of Doctor Strange . The placement of Doctor Strange comes mainly from dates given in the film placing it from late 2015 to early 2017, and since this hypothetical timeline works without dates, it's impossible to place here, but one could assume they have the end, main events of Doctor Strange placed approximately around 6 months before Thor: Ragnarok .

. 87-88 months/7.3 years AIM - Avengers: Age of Ultron . Said by Zemo in the main events of Captain America: Civil War to have been "over a year" ago, so about 14 months before 106-107 months AIM, 92=93 months AIM. However, said in Thor: Ragnarok to have been "2 years ago", so about 24 months before 107 months AIM, 83 months AIM. Overall, about 87-88 months AIM.

.



So, overall:

That still doesn't actually work as 8 years, with it being 7, but if dates have been ignored, then this is possibly all that they're going by.

However, the reason this is impossible to address is because it does not make sense as a system for the MCU timeline. It works for Star Wars, because it is "a long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away...", but the MCU is set in a present day Earth, where dates exist, and dates are very frequently used throughout the universe. I would have to bring in every piece of dated evidence in the MCU to address this, which, as I have explained, there is no time for currently.

Ignoring the dates does not make sense, because the films date themselves, and without any dating system there is no application to the timeline and it just cannot function or work. There are also lots of events purely dated by date, not relation to other events.