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Full MemberActivity: 168Merit: 104 Deception & Misdirection by ZEC co. Forking ASIC Resistance Bitmain Antminer Z9 May 09, 2018, 04:12:45 AM

Last edit: May 09, 2018, 03:48:28 PM by cryptomined Merited by vapourminer (1), molivil (1) #1



ZCash has released this statement:



Which basically says they don't have any plans to fork off the ASICs any time soon because they feel they are incompetent in understanding how the ASICs work. (and stated elsewhere they don't want to disrupt their sapling upgrade)

This is in contrast to how BTCP, BTG and BitcoinZ has decided on.



In my personal view, we have been lied to in order to found and grow the ZEC co. Network over the last 1.5 years, with promises of forking away and developed ASIC in the future... I believe this was deliberately done in order to build a network from a hashrate of 0 to a hashrate that is now worth ASIC development and take over... as no company is going to build an ASIC for a non-existant or small network... ZCash needed to convince us.. needed us to trust them that it was worth while and safe to build GPU miners to support their network... They did this by saying that they would fork off ASICs and keep the chain GPU minable.



Zooko has been saying for a few months now that he does not really think ASICs are a problem, and even went so far in a recent tweet to say that "commodity mining means miners have less at stake and don't lose much if abandon or betray the project... not the people I want to have around." ... which basically declared those of us who supported his network from day 0 as the enemy. We can face the sad fact he was never fond of GPU mining... He has repeatedly tried to argue the Pro-ASIC argument for the last few months.



Now I would like to state that in the following video, that Shawn is not an "official" employee of the ZEC co., but a "volunteer" employee who runs the ZCash forum forum.z.cash, their reddit, and other webpages designed to promote ZCash. However, as a moderator on the COMPANY forum, no matter what he says, he does REPRESENT ZEC co, and his opinion was taken as a representation of ZEC co. in the past without refute or clarification.



I will leave you to watch this video and form your own opinon on the ethics and future of ZEC co and its founder Zooko.



My question to you is, have us GPU miners been played as fools by ZEC co.?



If you are Pro-ASIC or Anti-ASIC is not the debate... that is a personal opinion and not the question at stake here. I want to think how many people believe we have been misled.



I should add that this video got me BANNED from the ZCash forums and BLOCKED from Zooko's Twitter. As an early supporter of ZCash extending back to the Testnet days and avid participant of the forum, you can imagine how angry they are me for showing you what I show you in the below video.



















https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPdnG03eI58

Hey everyone, I recently did this video ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oPdnG03eI58 ) showing some of the recent Deception and Misdirection that the ZCash team has pushed on us all over the last 1.5 years and ofcoarse more recently over the last week with the announcement of the Z9.ZCash has released this statement: https://z.cash.foundation/blog/statement-on-asics/ Which basically says they don't have any plans to fork off the ASICs any time soon because they feel they are incompetent in understanding how the ASICs work. (and stated elsewhere they don't want to disrupt their sapling upgrade)This is in contrast to how BTCP, BTG and BitcoinZ has decided on.In my personal view, we have been lied to in order to found and grow the ZEC co. Network over the last 1.5 years, with promises of forking away and developed ASIC in the future... I believe this was deliberately done in order to build a network from a hashrate of 0 to a hashrate that is now worth ASIC development and take over... as no company is going to build an ASIC for a non-existant or small network... ZCash needed to convince us.. needed us to trust them that it was worth while and safe to build GPU miners to support their network... They did this by saying that they would fork off ASICs and keep the chain GPU minable.Zooko has been saying for a few months now that he does not really think ASICs are a problem, and even went so far in a recent tweet to say that "commodity mining means miners have less at stake and don't lose much if abandon or betray the project... not the people I want to have around." ... which basically declared those of us who supported his network from day 0 as the enemy. We can face the sad fact he was never fond of GPU mining... He has repeatedly tried to argue the Pro-ASIC argument for the last few months.Now I would like to state that in the following video, that Shawn is not an "official" employee of the ZEC co., but a "volunteer" employee who runs the ZCash forum forum.z.cash, their reddit, and other webpages designed to promote ZCash. However, as a moderator on the COMPANY forum, no matter what he says, he does REPRESENT ZEC co, and his opinion was taken as a representation of ZEC co. in the past without refute or clarification.I will leave you to watch this video and form your own opinon on the ethics and future of ZEC co and its founder Zooko.My question to you is, have us GPU miners been played as fools by ZEC co.?If you are Pro-ASIC or Anti-ASIC is not the debate... that is a personal opinion and not the question at stake here. I want to think how many people believe we have been misled.I should add that this video got me BANNED from the ZCash forums and BLOCKED from Zooko's Twitter. As an early supporter of ZCash extending back to the Testnet days and avid participant of the forum, you can imagine how angry they are me for showing you what I show you in the below video. https://cryptomined.com

Msobh



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Jr. MemberActivity: 51Merit: 2 Re: Deception & Misdirection by ZEC co. Forking ASIC Resistance Bitmain Antminer Z9 May 09, 2018, 01:41:05 PM #5 the only one who will lose in this are miners especially the miners who will buy batches 2 and later . profit per day will decrease a lot once ASIC start to take over , developers already gained and got what they want from miners and from the coin . Bitamin will gain alot by selling those ASIC miners from batch 1 and from the noobs ( from batch 2 and moving forward ). ZEC will die slowly now . RIP ZEC

butka



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Full MemberActivity: 434Merit: 225 Re: Deception & Misdirection by ZEC co. Forking ASIC Resistance Bitmain Antminer Z9 May 09, 2018, 01:56:52 PM Merited by cryptomined (1) #6 This is what I personally feel about ZEC.

As a beginner in the crypto space, I was initially drawn to it as a promising coin with a good developers team. I even mined some ZEC for some time using my modest GPU equipment.

Had I known better, I would've been immediately suspicious of its 20% developers fee. Nowadays I don't even consider ZEC for anything serious.

You have other privacy coins to choose from, many of which come without any premine whatsoever.

And you can easily switch to mining them once they have modified their proof of work to be ASICS resistant.



cryptomined



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Full MemberActivity: 168Merit: 104 Re: Deception & Misdirection by ZEC co. Forking ASIC Resistance Bitmain Antminer Z9 May 09, 2018, 02:08:47 PM #7 Quote from: yrk1957 on May 09, 2018, 12:46:06 PM Quote from: cryptomined on May 09, 2018, 04:12:45 AM

ZCash has released this statement:



ZCash has released this statement: https://z.cash.foundation/blog/statement-on-asics/

"Board member Andrew Miller is planning to create a proposal through the grants program to convene a Technical Advisory Board to provide scientifically grounded inputs into this decision."



"Based on continued community approval and the results of our investigation above, we have a rough goal of developing and submitting a mitigation plan through the ZIP process, targeting a deployment in late 2018."



In the age of Uber, they will take a good year to sort this out. Just WOW!!





Edit: In case they have doubts on ASIC capabilities, here's one doing 40K:



https://www.asicminervalue.com/miners/asicminer/equihash-40k



Good luck!

Edit: In case they have doubts on ASIC capabilities, here's one doing 40K:Good luck!

yeah right... it will take them near a year to probably impliment any change, and they know damn well that by then no GPU miners will be left or care. most will have either liquidated or if they have mined out the time, they will be more happy to stick with an algo that has supported them the entire time.. not one that drops them and expects them to pick it back up again...



it is all obviously excuses from zcash... nothing more... BTCP, BTG, BitcoinZ all stating they will address this right away...



with ZCash evolving 0% in 1.5 years... they can afford to put a hold on their precious sapling upgrade and address the issue that those who supported their network growth over the last 1.5 years are getting thrown in a ditch..



so obviously they dont care and are really only in this for the money, Not the community.



which really leads me to wonder if their was any collusion between bitmain and zooko... people have asked for over a month if zooko has been in contact with any asic companies without getting an answer from zooko... and bam asics come out..



also bitmain wouldn't produce 100,000's of these units AND not put a disclaimer that a change in the algo is a risk (like they did with the ETH miner) unless they were certain there would not be an algo change... at 50 units per customer, i would bet they made 300,000+ Z9 units to sell to the public... expect a massive increase in difficulty over the next2-3 months and expect all GPUs to be forced off the network.



there is also a conspiracy floating around that the sapling upgrade made zcash more susceptible to ASICs - which I do not know the exact details about... but.. heh.. with the timing, i would again not be surprised if bitmain knew this and played right into it... if tipped off/collusion I cant say for sure... but it begs the question...



that being said, I knew from zookos comments earler, especially his early april comments, that if an ASIC came out, that they would not do anything to get rid of them ... i lost all respect for ZCash at that time and im proud to have gotten the boot from their forums. I can consider that to be the ethical thing to do at this point. yeah right... it will take them near a year to probably impliment any change, and they know damn well that by then no GPU miners will be left or care. most will have either liquidated or if they have mined out the time, they will be more happy to stick with an algo that has supported them the entire time.. not one that drops them and expects them to pick it back up again...it is all obviously excuses from zcash... nothing more... BTCP, BTG, BitcoinZ all stating they will address this right away...with ZCash evolving 0% in 1.5 years... they can afford to put a hold on their precious sapling upgrade and address the issue that those who supported their network growth over the last 1.5 years are getting thrown in a ditch..so obviously they dont care and are really only in this for the money, Not the community.which really leads me to wonder if their was any collusion between bitmain and zooko... people have asked for over a month if zooko has been in contact with any asic companies without getting an answer from zooko... and bam asics come out..also bitmain wouldn't produce 100,000's of these units AND not put a disclaimer that a change in the algo is a risk (like they did with the ETH miner) unless they were certain there would not be an algo change... at 50 units per customer, i would bet they made 300,000+ Z9 units to sell to the public... expect a massive increase in difficulty over the next2-3 months and expect all GPUs to be forced off the network.there is also a conspiracy floating around that the sapling upgrade made zcash more susceptible to ASICs - which I do not know the exact details about... but.. heh.. with the timing, i would again not be surprised if bitmain knew this and played right into it... if tipped off/collusion I cant say for sure... but it begs the question...that being said, I knew from zookos comments earler, especially his early april comments, that if an ASIC came out, that they would not do anything to get rid of them ... i lost all respect for ZCash at that time and im proud to have gotten the boot from their forums. I can consider that to be the ethical thing to do at this point. https://cryptomined.com

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Sr. MemberActivity: 1344Merit: 312Xtreme Monster Re: Deception & Misdirection by ZEC co. Forking ASIC Resistance Bitmain Antminer Z9 May 09, 2018, 02:29:04 PM #8 Quote from: cryptomined on May 09, 2018, 02:08:47 PM which really leads me to wonder if their was any collusion between bitmain and zooko... people have asked for over a month if zooko has been in contact with any asic companies without getting an answer from zooko... and bam asics come out..



I already said something about that few months ago when zec dev said they would not fork if there was an asic for it, that time is when I found out zec devs gave the formula to bitmain to create an asic for it, all behind the curtains, zec dev saying on the matter concerning eth asic was just a confirmation of what was going on since november 2017. Bitmain took 3 months to develop the asic, prototype was done on january 2018, mass production started on that month but the collusion was few months back. However bitmain would not believe when the secret formula got in hands of the competition and now bitmain is releasing the asic cause the competition would take the credit for it and bitmain would not let it. I already said countless of times about this, nobody paid attention cause as always there is no proof till it happens the big announcement hehe, You trolls were warned by zec dev what would happen although I was not 100% sure till few weeks ago about the collusion.



Also I must add, the enormous increased in hashrate few months ago was all asics. I already said something about that few months ago when zec dev said they would not fork if there was an asic for it, that time is when I found out zec devs gave the formula to bitmain to create an asic for it, all behind the curtains, zec dev saying on the matter concerning eth asic was just a confirmation of what was going on since november 2017. Bitmain took 3 months to develop the asic, prototype was done on january 2018, mass production started on that month but the collusion was few months back. However bitmain would not believe when the secret formula got in hands of the competition and now bitmain is releasing the asic cause the competition would take the credit for it and bitmain would not let it. I already said countless of times about this, nobody paid attention cause as always there is no proof till it happens the big announcement hehe, You trolls were warned by zec dev what would happen although I was not 100% sure till few weeks ago about the collusion.Also I must add, the enormous increased in hashrate few months ago was all asics. BTC Address: 1DH4ok85VdFAe47fSVXNVctxkFhUv4ujbR

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NewbieActivity: 75Merit: 0 Re: Deception & Misdirection by ZEC co. Forking ASIC Resistance Bitmain Antminer Z9 May 09, 2018, 03:19:40 PM #11 Personally i supported Zcash network from beginning, but when Zocco did a statement that ASIC doesn't concern him and he wont stick to the people who help him become rich and famous. i switched my miners to RAVEN and Monero.

This project for me is "0" - just bunch of untruthful scumbags that forget where they come from.

Also I will not support any coin, this scumbag is associated to.



+ I have a message to developers. YES the mining technology advances - but remember the coins , algos advance as well - and your coin is not only one in this world.

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Hero MemberActivity: 756Merit: 560 Re: Deception & Misdirection by ZEC co. Forking ASIC Resistance Bitmain Antminer Z9 May 09, 2018, 03:32:19 PM #12 You guys are blinded by your own greed and it is hilarious. The only reason you want it to stay GPU is because you dont want to spend money upgrade equipment.



ASICs are a good thing. They strengthen the network ten fold over GPU hashrate. They are cheaper to buy and run than a GPU mining rig.



You guys talking about how you supported the project by mining it are so full of crap. You mined it to make a profit, you dont care about the direction of the coin until it isnt making enough money for you.



You talk about how BTCP, BTG and BitcoinZ are forking away from it. Who cares? They are shitcoins cloned off of other peoples hard work. Zcash actually brought something original to the table, being the first coin to incorporate zk-Snarks and its zero knowledge proof.



Also this crazy idea that miners were "used" to build the hashrate to be good enough for an ASIC? What kind of idiocy is this? Go look up Bytom.....a coin that was unminable until the ASIC came out from bitmain that was developed in concert with the Bytom team.





I mean how have you been taken advantage of? You mined coins and got paid right? You chose to do that, you profited from it, now you are crying about it. The hypocrisy is undeniable.



These wild conspiracy theories should be scrubbed from this forum before some poor fool reads it and believes all of this garbage. Stop buying industrial miners, running them at home, and then complaining about the noise.

norminorm



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NewbieActivity: 75Merit: 0 Re: Deception & Misdirection by ZEC co. Forking ASIC Resistance Bitmain Antminer Z9 May 09, 2018, 03:44:40 PM #14 Quote from: fanatic26 on May 09, 2018, 03:32:19 PM You guys are blinded by your own greed and it is hilarious. The only reason you want it to stay GPU is because you dont want to spend money upgrade equipment.



ASICs are a good thing. They strengthen the network ten fold over GPU hashrate. They are cheaper to buy and run than a GPU mining rig.



You guys talking about how you supported the project by mining it are so full of crap. You mined it to make a profit, you dont care about the direction of the coin until it isnt making enough money for you.



You talk about how BTCP, BTG and BitcoinZ are forking away from it. Who cares? They are shitcoins cloned off of other peoples hard work. Zcash actually brought something original to the table, being the first coin to incorporate zk-Snarks and its zero knowledge proof.



Also this crazy idea that miners were "used" to build the hashrate to be good enough for an ASIC? What kind of idiocy is this? Go look up Bytom.....a coin that was unminable until the ASIC came out from bitmain that was developed in concert with the Bytom team.





I mean how have you been taken advantage of? You mined coins and got paid right? You chose to do that, you profited from it, now you are crying about it. The hypocrisy is undeniable.



These wild conspiracy theories should be scrubbed from this forum before some poor fool reads it and believes all of this garbage.



Hey mr hero/legendary member

When someone say something in the beginning and then, "ones rich and famous" change his story 180 degrees - who is the hypocrite? Hey mr hero/legendary memberWhen someone say something in the beginning and then, "ones rich and famous" change his story 180 degrees - who is the hypocrite?

cryptomined



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Full MemberActivity: 168Merit: 104 Re: Deception & Misdirection by ZEC co. Forking ASIC Resistance Bitmain Antminer Z9 May 09, 2018, 03:50:42 PM #16 Quote from: fanatic26 on May 09, 2018, 03:32:19 PM You guys are blinded by your own greed and it is hilarious. The only reason you want it to stay GPU is because you dont want to spend money upgrade equipment.



ASICs are a good thing. They strengthen the network ten fold over GPU hashrate. They are cheaper to buy and run than a GPU mining rig.



You guys talking about how you supported the project by mining it are so full of crap. You mined it to make a profit, you dont care about the direction of the coin until it isnt making enough money for you.



You talk about how BTCP, BTG and BitcoinZ are forking away from it. Who cares? They are shitcoins cloned off of other peoples hard work. Zcash actually brought something original to the table, being the first coin to incorporate zk-Snarks and its zero knowledge proof.



Also this crazy idea that miners were "used" to build the hashrate to be good enough for an ASIC? What kind of idiocy is this? Go look up Bytom.....a coin that was unminable until the ASIC came out from bitmain that was developed in concert with the Bytom team.





I mean how have you been taken advantage of? You mined coins and got paid right? You chose to do that, you profited from it, now you are crying about it. The hypocrisy is undeniable.



These wild conspiracy theories should be scrubbed from this forum before some poor fool reads it and believes all of this garbage.



wrong buddy, when we were mining testnet we were not mining for a profit



higher hashrate does not necessarily strengthen the network



anyways, this thread is not a debate on asics... it is a simple question so stick to it FFS



just vote no if that is your stance, state why if you want and that's it... wrong buddy, when we were mining testnet we were not mining for a profithigher hashrate does not necessarily strengthen the networkanyways, this thread is not a debate on asics... it is a simple question so stick to it FFSjust vote no if that is your stance, state why if you want and that's it... https://cryptomined.com