DW: In your recently published book, Reimagining Pakistan, you said that Pakistan should be a secular state. Is it really attainable?

Husain Haqqani: The idea of my latest book was born in a conversation many years ago, when Salman Rushdie [novelist] said, "If nations are imagined communities, Pakistan is poorly imagined." There were some valid criticisms about how Pakistan was created in a hurry. The generation before us had to suddenly stop being Indian and start being Pakistani; they needed an ideology. I am a Pakistani by birth, so I don't need it.

In my book, I thought how I could contribute to the process of reimagining Pakistan. The good thing about imagination is that what is poorly imagined can be reimagined. That is why I wrote this book.

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70 years of ideological orientation cannot be reversed overnight. Any attempt to phase out the invoking of religion as ideology would have to be gradual. Pakistan's civilian and military leaders would have to work together to ensure over time that Pakistanis realize the pitfalls of their contrived national narrative. The first step in that direction would be to trigger a debate over alternative paths for the country, something that has almost been shut down since former military dictator General Zia-ul-Haq's era.

There are those who would argue that the state ideology has helped Pakistan survive against the threat of disintegration, especially after the loss of Bangladesh. But that suggests that Pakistan, as a nation and as a state, cannot sustain itself except through ideological rhetoric, which, in turn, must be sustained through issues that mean little for most people in the 21st century. If that is the case, Pakistan has no choice but to stay mired in conceptual argumentation as Islamization has proved to be a recipe for unceasing internal conflict.

The alternative is for Pakistan to evolve as a functional, territorial nation state and a working federation of its various component ethnicities and nationalities. For that to happen, its leaders must take a stand against the unidimensional preoccupation with ideology.

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Partition of India: The way forward Birth of two nations In 1947, British India was divided into two countries - India and Pakistan. Pakistan's founder Mohammad Ali Jinnah and his All-India Muslim League party had first demanded autonomy for Muslim-majority areas in the undivided India, and only later a separate country for Muslims. Jinnah believed that Hindus and Muslims could not continue to live together, as they were distinctly different "nations."

Partition of India: The way forward The line of blood The partition of British India was extremely violent. Following the birth of India and Pakistan, violent communal riots began in many western areas, mostly in Punjab. Historians say that more than a million people died in clashes, and millions more migrated from Indian territory to Pakistan and from the Pakistani side to India.

Partition of India: The way forward The 1948 war India and Pakistan clashed over Kashmir soon after their independence. The Muslim-majority Kashmir region was ruled by a Hindu leader, but Jinnah wanted it to be part of Pakistani territory. Indian and Pakistani troops fought in Kashmir in 1948, with India taking control of most part of the valley, while Pakistan occupied a smaller area. India and Pakistan continue to clash over Kashmir.

Partition of India: The way forward Like US and Canada? Liberal historians say that Jinnah and Mahatma Gandhi wanted cordial ties between newly independent states. Jinnah, for instance, believed that ties between India and Pakistan should be similar to those between the US and Canada. But after his death in 1948, his successors followed a collision course with New Delhi.

Partition of India: The way forward The 'other' Indian and Pakistani governments present very different accounts of the partition. While India emphasizes the Indian National Congress' freedom movement against British rulers - with Gandhi as its main architect - Pakistani textbooks focus on a "struggle" against both British and Hindu "oppression." State propaganda in both countries paints each other as an "enemy" that cannot be trusted.

Partition of India: The way forward Worsening ties Diplomatic ties between India and Pakistan have remained acrimonious for the past seven decades. The issue of Islamist terrorism has marred relations in the last few years, with New Delhi accusing Islamabad of backing Islamist jihadists to wage a war in India-administered Kashmir. India also blames Pakistan-based groups for launching terror attacks on Indian soil. Islamabad denies these claims.

Partition of India: The way forward The way forward Many young people in both India and Pakistan are urging their governments to improve bilateral ties. Islamabad-based documentary filmmaker Wajahat Malik believes the best way for India and Pakistan to develop a closer relationship is through more interaction between their peoples. "Trade and tourism are the way forward for us. When people come together, the states will follow suit," Malik told DW. Author: Shamil Shams



It seems that many Pakistanis are challenging the state ideology these days. A number of mass movements have taken on the country's powerful military, which many analysts say is the custodian of Pakistan's Islamic ideology. Should the military establishment be worried about these developments?

The Pakistani military has always feared ethno-linguistic identities and believed they would result in a break up of Pakistan. Any demands for more autonomy or creation of states based on ethnic or linguistic bases are perceived as anti-national and other countries (especially India and Afghanistan) are accused of helping these demands. The separation of Pakistan's eastern wing in 1971 only reinforced these fears.

Pakistan's ideological national identity has always been seen as the glue that will tie disparate ethnicities together and will over time reduce the ethnic-linguistic bonds. The truth is justice, fair treatment and a genuine federalism is the real way to keep Pakistan together and to make it stronger.

At independence, the Pakistani state feared Pashtun irredentist demands. This led to the policy of encouraging Islamization in the northwestern regions of the country as a counter to nationalist Pashtun sentiments. The Pakistani "deep state" is unable to view any peaceful movement as genuine because this runs counter to their narrative about Pakistan. Just as the Baluch uprising is treated as anti-national so is the Pashtun awakening seen as against Pakistani interests. But the Pashtun Tahafuz Movement is a genuine popular movement seeking human rights and protection of the Pashtun peoples' lives and dignity. There is no evidence that the thousands of young people joining it are foreign supported or externally inspired.

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Militant Haqqani Network - a brief history Remnants of the Afghan war against Soviets The Haqqani Network was formed by Jalaluddin Haqqani, who fought against Soviet forces in Afghanistan in the 1980s. In 1995, the Haqqani Network allied with the Taliban and the two groups captured the Afghan capital Kabul in 1996. In 2012, the US designated the group a terrorist organization. On September 4, 2018, the Taliban announced that Jalaluddin passed away after a long illness.

Militant Haqqani Network - a brief history An Islamist ideologue Jalaluddin Haqqani was born in 1939 in the Afghan province Paktia. He studied at Darul Uloom Haqqania, which was founded in 1947 by the father of one of Pakistan's most prominent religious leaders, Maulana Sami ul Haq. Darul Uloom Haqqania is known for its alleged ties with the Taliban and other extremist groups.

Militant Haqqani Network - a brief history Jalaluddin Haqqani as Taliban minister Jalaluddin was made minister for Afghan tribal affairs under the Taliban rule. He remained in the post until the US toppled the Taliban regime in 2001. After the Taliban leader Mullah Omar, Jalaluddin was considered the most influential militant figure in Afghanistan. Jalaluddin also had close links with the former al Qaeda leader, Osama bin Laden.

Militant Haqqani Network - a brief history Where is the Haqqani Network based? Security experts say the command center of the group is based in Miranshah city of Pakistan's North Waziristan region along the Afghan border. US and Afghan officials claim the Haqqani Network is backed by the Pakistani military, a charge denied by Pakistani authorities. Washington says the group's fighters launch attacks on foreign and local troops and civilians inside Afghanistan.

Militant Haqqani Network - a brief history The Haqqani heir It is believed that Jalaluddin Haqqani died in 2015, but his group denied those reports at the time. The network is now headed by Sirajuddin Haqqani, Jalaluddin's son. Sirajuddin is also the deputy chief of the Taliban.

Militant Haqqani Network - a brief history Who is Sirajuddin Haqqani? Although there isn't much credible information available about Sirajuddin Haqqani, security experts say he spent his childhood in the Pakistani city of Miranshah. He studied at Darul Uloom Haqqania, situated in Peshawar's suburbs. Sirajuddin is believed to be an expert on military affairs. Some analysts say Sirajuddin's views are more hard line than his father's.

Militant Haqqani Network - a brief history Anas Haqqani's death sentence One of Jalaluddin's sons is Anas Haqqani, whose mother hailed from the United Arab Emirates. He is currently in the custody of the Afghan government and is facing the death penalty. The Haqqani Network has warned Kabul of dire consequences if Afghan authorities hang Anas Haqqani.

Militant Haqqani Network - a brief history How big is the Haqqani Network? Research institutes and Afghan affairs experts say the group has between three and ten thousand fighters. The network allegedly receives most of its funding from the Gulf countries. The Haqqani Network is also involved in kidnappings and extortion through which it funds its operations.

Militant Haqqani Network - a brief history Ties with other militant groups The Haqqanis have close relations with other regional and international terrorist organizations such as al Qaeda, the Tehreek-i-Taliban Pakistan (TTP), Lashkar-e-Taiba and Central Asian Islamist groups. Jalauddin Haqqani was not only close to bin Laden, but also had ties with al Qaeda's current chief Ayman al-Zawahiri. Author: Atif Baloch



Pakistan's Supreme Court banned Former Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif from politics, and recently Foreign Minister Khawaja Asif was also ousted. How do you see the top court's decisions against members of the ruling Pakistan Muslim League — Nawaz Group?

Nawaz Sharif's ouster only reinforces what can best be described as Pakistan's viceregal tradition. Elected politicians are subject to the whims and "superior judgment" of appointed generals, judges, and civil servants, just as they were during the British colonial era. One need not be convinced of Sharif's innocence to note that in the last 70 years, all elected Pakistani prime ministers have either been assassinated, dismissed or forced to resign by heads of state with military backing, or deposed in coups d'etat. Sharif was himself a protege of the military establishment once, but now that he challenges them, he is being targeted through courts that once gave him carte blanche.

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The Trump administration has taken a tough stance against Pakistan in relation to Islamabad's alleged support to Islamists. What should Pakistan do to allay US concerns?

The Trump administration's policies reflect the deep mistrust that has characterized the US-Pakistan relationship. At the heart of that dysfunction is the divergence of core interests in South Asia. Even at the height of the alliance, the United States never shared Pakistan's views about its co-leadership in the region and its envisioning of India as a major threat to its neighbors.

The Americans doled out military assistance and economic support in return for favors such as intelligence bases against the Soviet Union and China during the 1950s and 60s as well as for using Pakistan as the staging ground for jihad against the Soviets in Afghanistan during the 1980s.

Pakistan, on the other hand, single-mindedly defined its national interest in terms of rivalry with India. The Soviet withdrawal from Afghanistan was not the end of jihad for Pakistan, but also the beginning of an opportunity to expand jihad to Kashmir and even India. Turning Afghanistan into a satellite with the help of obscurantist proxies like the Taliban and the Haqqani Network became an obsession for the all-powerful Pakistani military and intelligence services. Even blowback in the form of extremist attacks inside Pakistan did not alter that calculus.

The US understood that Pakistan was not on board with its vision for Afghanistan as well as the entire region. But there were NATO transshipments and intelligence sharing to consider. Presidents George W. Bush and Barack Obama also hoped that incentives, and occasional threats, would eventually lead Pakistan to change its strategic calculus. For that reason they put up with a situation in which American troops died in Afghanistan at the hands of fighters who received assistance and protection across the border, in the territory of an ostensible ally who received economic and military assistance from the US.

Meanwhile, Pakistan's military believed that the policies it was pursuing are in the country's "national interest" as the generals define it. They will not change their definition of national interest until the cost of pursuing it becomes higher than they are willing to bear.

American and Pakistani interests can converge only when one of the two countries changes its definition of its interests in Afghanistan, in relation to terrorism, and about China's primacy in the Indo-Pacific region.

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Husain Haqqani is a leading South Asia expert and former ambassador of Pakistan to the United States. He is currently a Senior Fellow and Director for South and Central Asia at the Hudson Institute in Washington, DC.

The interview was conducted by Atif Tauqeer.