Recorded on December 10, 1973,

On the shores of the Pacific Ocean

Near Los Angeles

Śrīla Prabhupāda is accompanied by Dr. Singh, Hṛdayānanda dāsa Goswami and other students.

The Meaning of "Supreme"

Śrīla Prabhupāda. What is the meaning of supremacy in this material world? Why do you accept President Nixon as the supreme person within your state?

Dr. Singh. Because he has some power.

Śrīla Prabhupāda. Yes. And why is he supreme? Because as the government's number one servant, he gets the highest salary, has all the best facilities, and his order is final.

Dr. Singh. He has the power to convince others.

Śrīla Prabhupāda. No. You may not agree with him, but because he is supreme, you have to accept his order. That is his position. It does not depend on your acceptance or nonacceptance. That is the meaning of supremacy, is it not? The Vedic literature says that one who has the symptoms of supremacy is fortunate. The supremely fortunate person is God. Lakṣmī-sahasra-śata-sambhrama-sevyamānam: "He is served by hundreds and thousands of lakṣmīs, or goddesses of fortune." (Bs. 5.29) Here on this planet we are begging a little favor from the goddess of fortune. But Kṛṣṇa is always worshiped by many thousands of goddesses of fortune.

Dr. Singh. To conceive of anyone so fortunate is beyond our thinking capacity.

Śrīla Prabhupāda. Yes. Therefore Kṛṣṇa is acintya, inconceivable. We cannot estimate how great or fortunate He is! Acintya means "that which we cannot estimate." We can see only a part of God's opulence - this material nature - which is only a partial exhibition of God's potencies. The Supreme Personality has many potencies. He has inferior energies and superior energies. In Bhagavad-gītā (7.4) Kṛṣṇa says:

bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano buddhir eva ca ahaṅkāra itīyaṁ me bhinnā prakṛtir aṣṭadhā

"Earth, water, fire, air, ether, mind, intelligence and false ego - all together these eight comprise My separated material energies." In the next verse of Bhagavad-gītā, Kṛṣṇa describes His superior energy (parā prakṛti), which is manifested as the spiritual world. So, if in the inferior, material energy there are so many wonderful things, just imagine how much more important and how much more wonderful things are in the spiritual world. This is the meaning of superior.

The Mysteries of Yogic Power

Hṛdayānanda dāsa Goswami. And are all the varieties of life we see on earth contained in the spiritual world?

Śrīla Prabhupāda. Yes. And, moreover, if in this inferior energy there are so many wonderful varieties of life, just think how wonderful are the superior varieties of life in the spiritual world. Even in this material universe, the inhabitants of some planets are far superior to those on other planets. For example, people on earth practice mystic yoga for achieving wonderful powers, but people on the planet called Siddhaloka have these great yogic powers naturally. On earth it is natural that a bird can fly; but we cannot, except with costly machines. However, on such planets as Siddhaloka, the residents can fly even from one planet to another without machines. They can go to other planets simply at will. Even on earth there are some yogīs who can take their bath early in the morning in four places at once - Jagannātha Purī, Rāmeśvara, Hardwar and Dvārakā.(22) One yogī friend used to visit my father in Calcutta. The yogī told him that when he (the yogī) would simply sit down and touch his guru, he would travel from Calcutta to Dvārakā in two minutes. That is yogic power. So what are today's airplanes? Durvāsā Muni traveled all over the universe and up to Vaikuṇṭha(23) within one year. According to modern calculations, certain planets in this universe are more than forty thousand light-years(24) distant from the earth. This means it would take forty thousand years to reach these planets if you traveled at the speed of light. Even if they had the means, how could the astronauts live for forty thousand years? So, why are they so proud?

Dr. Singh. The scientists have a theory that they can produce a machine that will travel at the speed of light.

Śrīla Prabhupāda. That is rascaldom. They say that, but they will never be able to do it.

Vedic Cosmology

Śrīla Prabhupāda. There are many invisible planets and stars. For example, when the Rāhu planet passes before the sun and moon, there is an eclipse. But the scientists describe an eclipse differently. Actually, the Rāhu planet causes an eclipse. There are many questionable points regarding the modern scientists' theory of the eclipse. Their explanation is incorrect according to Vedic information.

Dr. Singh. But the scientists say that they can prove their theories.

Śrīla Prabhupāda. They say that science proves everything. But that is nonsense. The scientist has proved everything except what he is. That he does not know. And why does he die? That also he does not know. That is the extent of his knowledge.

Dr. Singh. They can make a model of the universe. They can make a model of the planets and the moon.

Śrīla Prabhupāda. If they can make things, why don't they make an imitation sun to save electricity? These rascals say everything, but they cannot do anything. That is their position. If they can make a model of the universe, let them make a big model of the sun. Then in the dark night we will not have to spend so much money on electricity. But they cannot do it. Yet they speak big, big words, simply to take money from the taxpayers. They say they know the composition of the moon and the composition of the sun, so why can't they make them? Why can't they create an artificial sun so that the people of Iceland and Greenland can be saved from so much cold?

God Is Never Zero

Śrīla Prabhupāda. Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu once gave the example of the jewel called cintāmaṇi, which produces many other jewels while remaining as it is.

oṁ pūrṇam adaḥ pūrṇam idaṁ pūrṇāt pūrṇam udacyate pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya pūrṇam evāvaśiṣyate (Īśo Invocation)

The meaning of this verse is that although everything emanates from the Personality of Godhead, He never diminishes. Here on earth the petrol is running out, and this is becoming a terrible problem, but the sun is still shining and will continue to shine for an untold number of years. And Kṛṣṇa can create millions of suns; in fact, He has already done so. But He is still fully potent. He has lost nothing. That is God, and that is the supreme energy of God, acintya-śakti.

We have some money to spend, and the next day our account becomes zero. Rascals say that ultimate truth is zero, śūnyavāda. They do not know that God is never zero - that He is always positive. So we must have a clear idea of God. Theologians should take these ideas from Vedic descriptions and not be misled by fools and rascals. God and His full energies are explained in the Vedic literatures. Our energy is lost, but God's is not. That is the difference between God and us. I cannot walk swiftly or do so many other things that a young man can do, because I have lost my youthful energy. But God is always youthful. Advaitam acyutam anādim ananta-rūpam ādyaṁ purāṇa-puruṣaṁ nava-yauvanaṁ ca: "Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, is absolute, infallible and beginningless. Expanded into unlimited forms, He is the original person, the oldest, and always appearing as a fresh youth." (Bs. 5.33) Kṛṣṇa also says in Bhagavad-gītā, īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati: (BG 18.61) "The Supreme Lord is situated in everyone's heart." He is also within every atom. But still He is one. That is God. And He is advaita, without duality. Not that He is living within your heart and a different personality is living within my heart. No, they are one. God is everywhere by His all-pervasive features, and He is also localized; yet He is still one.

The Absolute Nature of Kṛṣṇa's Love

Dr. Singh. In some Western theological literature, Śrīla Prabhupāda, they say that God is love.

Śrīla Prabhupāda. God is everything. Why do they say He is this or that? Anything is God because He is absolute. His love and His enmity are the same. In the material world, we distinguish between love and animosity. But God's animosity and God's love are the same thing. Therefore, He is called acintya. or inconceivable. God's love for the gopīs(25) and God's enmity for Kaṁsa(26) achieved the same result. Both Kaṁsa and the gopīs went to the spiritual world. Also, Pūtanā(27) came to poison Kṛṣṇa, and Mother Yaśodā was always anxious to save Kṛṣṇa, the naughty child, lest He be harmed. So Mother Yaśodā and Pūtanā are opposite, but they both achieved the same results. Kṛṣṇa thought, "I have sucked Pūtanā's breast, so now she is My mother. She must reach the same destination as Yaśodā." This is the absolute nature of Kṛṣṇa's enmity and Kṛṣṇa's love.

vadanti tat tattva-vidas tattvaṁ yaj jñānam advayam brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate

"Learned transcendentalists who know the Absolute Truth call this nondual substance Brahman, Paramātmā or Bhagavān." (Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam 1.2.11) God has His impersonal, all-pervasive feature (known as Brahman) and His localized Paramātmā feature. At the same time He is Bhagavān, which is His original, personal, transcendental form. The three are different but the same. This is the nature of God, acintya-bhedābheda-tattva - simultaneously one and different. One who has reached the personal conception of Bhagavān has automatically reached Brahman and Paramātmā. They are all Kṛṣṇa, but there is a difference between them. They are simultaneously one and different.

Accepting Knowledge From a Learned Person

Dr. Singh. Śrīla Prabhupāda, many people have difficulty accepting God.

Śrīla Prabhupāda. They are diseased, but they do not want to be treated. If they do not agree to be treated, that is their fault. One who is not Kṛṣṇa conscious - God conscious - is a madman. Under the power of the illusory energy - the inferior, material energy - he talks only nonsense, just like someone haunted by a ghost. You must approach a person who is learned. You must find such a person, a guru, and surrender to him. Then question him, and whatever answers you get from him you must accept. That is the process for understanding God. You must first find the guru; then you must satisfy him by service and by surrendering unto him. The guru will explain everything. Kṛṣṇa explains in Bhagavad-gītā (4.34):

tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā upadekṣyanti te jñānaṁ jñāninas tattva-darśinaḥ

"Just try to learn the truth by approaching a spiritual master. Inquire from him submissively and render service unto him. The self-realized soul can impart knowledge unto you because he has seen the truth."