President Donald Trump won't be easy to defeat in November 2020, U.S. Sen. Bernie Sanders said, but, Sanders argued, he can do it.

The president has a solid base of support “for whatever reason,” the Democratic presidential candidate said. Sanders ultimately chalked up Trump’s support to snake oil salesmanship, and the frustration of wide swaths of people who felt abandoned.

"I give credit to Trump,” Sanders said Monday in a wide-ranging 20-minute interview with the Des Moines Register. “He is a fraud, but he is a smart fraud. He is a good showman, and he knows how to manipulate people.”

Sanders frequently calls Trump a racist, sexist, homophobe, xenophobe and religious bigot. Sanders cites Trump leading the racist "birther" movement that questioned President Barack Obama's origins, his demonizing of immigrants and attacks on the rights of LGBTQ people.

But Trump campaigned against the political establishment that many people felt sold them out let voters look past that, Sanders said.

"There's a whole lot of people in Iowa, and Vermont, and throughout the country who think the political establishment — Republican establishment and Democratic establishment — has sold them out,” Sanders said. “That's what I think. They think that while politicians are busy raising money in New York or Los Angeles, they have forgotten that people here in Iowa are working two or three jobs, that they can't afford the outrageously high cost of health care or prescription drugs and are worried their kids are going to leave school deeply in debt or not be able to go to college.

“Millions of people say 'hey, where's the establishment when it comes to my needs?' And Trump came along and said, ‘I hear your pain. I hear your pain. I'm going to take on the establishment.’”

Sanders said he didn't think he was the only candidate who could unseat the president, but argued he was best positioned to do so.

The trick is building excitement, and an agenda “that really speaks and works for the needs of working people,” Sanders said in the interview. He argues his emphasis on combating climate change, providing universal health care, increasing the minimum wage and eliminating tuition for post-high school public education does that.

In a mid-November Des Moines Register/CNN/Mediacom Iowa Poll, nearly two-thirds of likely Democratic caucusgoers said nominating someone who can beat Trump was more important than a candidate’s positions. Sanders’ twist is that the two are related.

“The truth is, doing the same old same old type of politics, I don't think that's going to create that energy and that excitement,” Sanders said.

Why Sanders doubts Biden could create a turnout wave

Vice President Joe Biden launched his campaign on the pitch of saving "the soul of this nation" from eight years of Trump at the helm, and his candidacy hinged on being uniquely positioned to do that. Sanders said he doubted Biden could generate the enthusiasm for a broad voter turnout he thinks is necessary to defeat Trump.

Sanders called Biden a friend, but singled out his votes for the Iraq War, “disastrous” trade agreements, and a “terrible” bankruptcy bill critics, including fellow candidate U.S. Sen. Elizabeth Warren, argue prioritized credit card companies over people seeking bankruptcy protections.

“To win, we need energy, we need excitement, we need the largest voter turnout in American history,” Sanders said in the interview. “And I don't think Joe's record will allow him to do that, and I think we are the campaign to do that.”

'Medicare for All' versus a public option

Sanders also argued for his signature "Medicare for All" plan over public options like Biden's or soon-to-be former South Bend, Indiana, Mayor Pete Buttigieg's proposal. Medicare for All would create a single-payer health care system and in the process eliminate the "massive and chaotic bureaucracy that currently exists in our health care system," Sanders said. It was a theme he returned to in a walking press gaggle Tuesday.

"The current system, which (public option advocates) are defending with minor tweaks, is far and away the most expensive system in the world," Sanders said.

Biden and Buttigieg argue their plans would cost the nation less and preserve choice. Sanders says his proposal broadens consumer choice by letting individuals, not insurance networks, choose health care providers, and that the taxes to pay for it will be far less than what private plans cost now.

On the trail, Sanders will frequently ask audience members what their health care premiums and deductibles are — he reserves a particular ire for deductibles being an additional barrier to care after premiums are paid — and contrasts it with out-of-pocket costs he says typical families would pay in Medicare for All taxes. The stump comparisons of insurance costs to Sanders' example of families earning $60,000 a year is generally about 10 to 1 ratio.

Sanders also reiterated concerns that a public option, which creates a government-run insurance pool while preserving private insurance, would create a "tiered health care system" where the sickest and poorest end up overburdening the government plan. Medicare for All would leverage a balanced pool of healthy individuals and those with medical needs, he argued.

Heading into the sprint

Sanders is finishing out 2019 in Des Moines, and, like several other candidates, wasting very little of 2020 before working to rally Iowans to caucus for him on Feb. 3.

Sanders will wrap up the year at a New Year's Eve campaign event billed as a celebration of his "unprecedented grassroots movement." He has another 10 Iowa events planned in the first five days of January.

"In comparing 2016 to now, what I would say without the slightest hesitation, is we have a much stronger organization staff, we have a stronger grassroots network," he said. "So I'm feeling very, very good. The difference, obviously, is I'm not running against just one major opponent. I'm running against a number of strong candidates. So the vote total per person will be low. But we're feeling really, really good."

On Tuesday, he said his campaign has knocked on 250,000 doors in Iowa, and aims to double that by the end of January.

Nick Coltrain is a politics and data reporter for the Register. Reach him at ncoltrain@registermedia.com or at 515-284-8361. Your subscription makes work like this possible. Subscribe today at DesMoinesRegister.com/Deal.