Meet Max Dawson: Survivor professor, Survivor Internet’s best friend, Survivor contestant — and now, Survivor casualty.

Not that he views himself as a victim, mind you. For all the flaws he demonstrated as a Survivor player, Dawson has nothing but pride in the experience. Well known among Survivor fans for teaching a college course on the historic reality competition series, Max’s participation in Survivor: Worlds Apart was known throughout the online community with days to go before the season even began. That kind of pressure is rare for a first-time Survivor contestant, and it fueled Max’s game from the very second he stepped out onto the beach of Nicaragua. It was a short-lived game, however, as Max’s inability to read tribe mate Carolyn Rivera’s dissatisfaction with their alliance cost him his chance at the Sole Survivor title, only 14 days into the season.

There’s too much ground to cover with someone like Max in just a few minutes of phone conversation, but even still, fifteen minutes with one of the most well-known Survivor super-fans is fifteen minutes well spent. Read on for what Max told me about how his game began, how it ended, and why Worlds Apart could go down as the best Survivor season yet.

Max!

Josh!

How’s it going?

I’m hanging in there. I’m having fun.

This is part of the process, right? You wanted the full Survivor experience. Exit press is part of that experience.

It’s not just part of the process. As I said to Gordon Holmes, I’m talking about my two favorite subjects: Survivor and myself. Listen, dude, any day I get to talk to Rob Cesternino, Dalton Ross, Gordon Holmes, and the one and only Round Howard, it’s a good day.

It’s not a bad day, even if you had a bad night last night. But you seem to have a good attitude about how you left, and when you left.

I mean, I got to play Survivor. That’s pretty crazy. Somebody has to have a pretty tremendous lapse of judgment to allow me of all people to play Survivor. The fact that I got to play? You know I relished every moment of it. Every miserable moment, every triumphant moment. Whether it was me having my torch snuffed, or pulling that challenge out of the jaws of defeat in that fourth episode. It’s hard to get down when I got to live the dream. Maybe it didn’t exhibit all of the magical qualities that I hoped it would, but it was still a chance to live out that dream.

Before we get into last night, let’s go back a bit further…

To when I was a little boy?

To when you were a young lad! Okay, not that far back. Let’s go back to when the season was just about to film. Many Survivor fans on the Internet knew the names of two people who would be competing on Season 30: So Kim, and Max Dawson. Were you aware that people were aware that you were going to be playing Survivor?

The day I left for Survivor, I landed in Miami where the contestants were gathering. I had a text message on my phone: “Just want you to know, Survivor Sucks has just spoiled you.” It turns out that my back-up loved one had said something to someone who said something to someone who has a Sucks account, and it was posted on that day of departure. So Kim happened to read that. When the game started, about five minutes after we were told for the first time, “You can play Survivor,” So Kim cornered me and said: “I know who you are. I know what you’re capable of.” My reply was: “Well, I know who you are!”

At that moment, I knew that So Kim would be the first person voted out of our tribe. She was extremely adept. She was savvy. She was talented. And she knew me. I went in there knowing that if people got wind of who I was and what I did, it would be an obstacle I had to overcome. And I wasn’t going to lie about it. I was going to downplay it, but I wasn’t going to lie about it. The fact that So essentially threatened to blow up my spot, it put me on my heels, in a situation where I had no choice but to own it and be who I am — which is a guy who loves Survivor.

You definitely did not downplay your love for Survivor. Did So blow up your spot, then? Did she introduce you to the rest of White Collar as Max Dawson: Survivor Professor Extraordinaire, or did that information just come out naturally?

I think I beat her to the punch. I went back to camp with her and said, “Hey guys, I mentioned that I used to be a college professor, and one of the classes I taught was on Survivor. I’m a huge fan. I didn’t want to hide it from you guys. But I don’t want it to be a huge issue. Now that everybody knows, let’s just get on with it.”

Your favorite Survivor contestant is Jonathan Penner. In Survivor: Philippines, Penner talks about being a storyteller — “What’s the story?” — and I’m wondering if that’s on your mind, when someone like So Kim comes up to you. It’s not a position that a lot of other players find themselves in, other than returnees, where you know you’re already on Survivor fans’ radar, like you and So were. Was there any part of you that thought about the story of you and So teaming up, rather than her immediately becoming public enemy number one?

My thinking was, in that moment, not about the story. My thinking was about the fact that So and I occupied a very similar position where we had equally tight relationships with the men and the women. I was able to bond with Joaquin and Tyler, and I was able to bond with So, Carolyn and Shirin. And So was able to do the same. Two people in that pivot position can very easily team up and wreak havoc on the strategy within a tribe. They can collaborate and be effective.

That said, I didn’t want to share that position. I wanted to be able to bro down with Tyler and Joaq, and I wanted to be able to work with the alliance that I thought would be my ticket to the end of the game. I had every intention of working with Carolyn and Shirin most closely. I had every intention of maintaining a close relationship with Tyler. But I did not like the fact that So also had those same options on the table for her.

Combined with the fact that she had essentially tried to use my identity as a weapon against me… and, I can’t lie, Josh. There was sort of the Francesca Hogi poetic beauty in sending someone home first, who had already made the trip out to Nicaragua [for San Juan del Sur, where she was cut before the season]. I wish I wasn’t that much of a sick [expletive], but…

But you are kind of a monster.

Listen, I’m a bit of a monster. What can I say? That made it very obvious. Now, I have to talk to you about that first vote, though, because my undoing was that first vote.

Lay it on me. Walk me through it.

Shirin and I joyously worked out a pawn situation whereby we would offer up Carolyn to So and Joaquin, and we would then simultaneously pretend as if So and Joaquin were voting for Shirin, to create a great deal of confusion within the Soquin camp. We were triple-crossing, essentially, at that point. We thought Carolyn understood that she was being used as a decoy. But I think she expected So and Joaquin to actually vote for Shirin. After that Tribal Council, where her name was written down twice, she was very perplexed. She was actually very angry. She confronted Joaquin and said, “Why did you write my name down?” And Joaquin said, “Because Max told me to.”

Anytime you do a blindside, you tell the people you’re blindsiding to vote for someone who you have no intention of going home. You don’t expect that person, especially if that person is one of your closest two allies, to be offended or mortally and morally wounded by that turn of events. But from that moment onward, not only did Carolyn think I was gunning for her, but she also thought I was some kind of Jim Jones type of cult master of mind control who had gotten Joaquin to drink the proverbial kool-aid and was doing things with his quote-unquote “cerebellum.” From that point forward, Carolyn thinks, “Max is out to get me.” It couldn’t have been further from the truth.

Before we went to that Tribal Council, I had said, “Carolyn, if it turns out that Tyler is not on our side, I will go to rocks for you.” And I would have. What would’ve been more exciting than going to rocks in that first Tribal Council? It would have been epic. I really was loyal to Carolyn. Unfortunately, a lack of communication, coupled with poor social play on my part — not maintaining the relationship, not checking in with her enough, not stoking her ego, not attending to her insecurities — led to her feeling a great deal of animosity to me.

The other mistake I made? I thought Carolyn and Shirin were so tight. Carolyn made a lot of weird faces toward Shirin — but that’s just Carolyn’s face! She has this tough, New York exterior. Some people call it RBF. Whatever it is, Carolyn is a tough mama. I never for a second thought that that toughness concealed a true disdain for Shirin. What I’m starting to see with each passing episode is that Carolyn really disliked Shirin strongly. The combination of her thinking that I was a strategic mastermind gunning for her, and that Shirin was objectionable and obnoxious, led to the alliance that I thought would be my ticket to the end being the alliance that ended my game prematurely.

Tell me about the end. Before the votes are read, you bust out a “Hold Up, Bro” reference. I feel like that’s a card you keep in your back pocket for when you know you’re going home. So did you know? Did you feel that you were about to leave this game?

There was a weird vibe at Tribal. I went into it thinking that Carolyn and Shirin and I were tight, and that Kelly was the swing vote. It was, in fact, a fait accompli. Carolyn had flipped, and I was going home. There was a weird vibe. Carolyn was a little cold to me and Shirin on the way into Tribal. During Tribal, she talked about how annoying Shirin was, that really raised my antennae. But it wasn’t until the vote when I saw Carolyn in the voting confessional, and she wrote down three letters instead of four, that I knew what was going on. At that point, I turned to Shirin and said, “I’m going home tonight.”

Tip to future Survivor players: Count the number of pen strokes on the parchment to understand whether or not you need to play your idol. Most people aren’t smart enough to know that if you’re writing down “Max,” pretend to write down another letter so Max thinks you’re going for someone else, in the event that Max has an idol.

So, at that point, I knew I was going home. I knew it was the end of my Survivor experience. I thought it might be fun to have at least one last opportunity to pay homage to a moment that, to me, is what Survivor is all about: The famous “Hold Up, Bro” Tribal Council from Survivor: Caramoan.

And you gave Jeff a stare that, to me, looked like a Survivor: Philippines Dawson stare. Did the editors cut out a scene of you stealing a kiss from Jeff?

Let’s just say Jeff was pulling beard hairs out of his teeth for the next three or four hours.

I really hope that’s true.

How amazing is it how much taller I am than Jeff Probst in that moment? Shocking. I look like a freak. Every photograph of this season, I look like a Lurch Addams freak. Like I’ve been photoshopped into every picture — even the pictures I’m actually in.

I love the photo of the White Collar tribe where you are standing seven feet away from everyone.

Yeah. Ultimately, that might have been prescient. I was off on my own and in my own head, not as connected to the rest of the tribe as I needed to be. That said, I had a very strong relationship with Shirin, obviously, but I also had a very strong relationship with Tyler. After that swap, I thought if that tribe lost, against all odds — because, let’s be honest, Josh, how is New Manono going to beat Escameca? No shot. But if by some fluke, if Rodney had once again misunderstood the concept of going under a pole, or if something silly had happened — if Dan’s manties had somehow reappeared and he ran off the course to find them — I thought Tyler would be going home. I was very concerned about that.

Tyler, I considered to be as important to my game as Carolyn and Shirin. I considered him to be someone who was a huge target. He’s handsome, likable, athletic, smart, cool and collective. He’s the total package. I thought that if they had any sense, they would go after him the first chance they had. Tyler was important to my game because in addition to being a smart, level-headed guy with whom I could have long, strategic conversations, he took the target off of me. I called Tyler the “Big Man” in the first episode. That was deliberate. That was strategic. That was me trying to label Tyler as the decision maker, and the leader of the tribe, the guy you have to turn to in order to make a move. I really wanted Tyler to occupy that role, and I wanted him in front of me as the meat shield. More athletic, likable and level-headed than me — a real jury threat. Someone I knew people would go for before they would go after me.

And I was very concerned about the one I called “Joey Amazing.” Joe demonstrated that he was not only physically formidable as a competitor, but in that first challenge, when he whipped through that tree puzzle in what seemed like seconds, I thought, “This guy is everything that we thought Malcolm was.” He’s handsome, he’s athletic, he’s smart, he’s creative. I could already see the beautiful merge tribe flag he was going to make, and I could already see Jeff interviewing him in the finale where his blow-dried hair was cascading over his shoulders, talking about getting stopped in the streets by prepubescent girls who had their first sexual awakening at the sight of Joe, as he’s handing him the million dollar check. Joe is amazing.

So I thought the best thing for me, Shirin and Carolyn to do would be to lose every challenge from that point on and first get rid of Will, because I knew Jenn and Hali would not expend an idol on Will; and then Hali, because I was pretty confident that Jenn had an idol; and then Jenn, so that by the time we merged, Joe was a man alone, and we could take care of that threat as soon as possible. I had real, real premonitions about Joe being the guy to take out in this game. Whether or not they’ll prove to be right? We’ll have to see. But Tyler and I spent a lot of time talking about a strategy where we would do everything we could to get White Collar to the merge, and who we needed to remove from the other tribes to ensure that the five of us would be the last five standing.

We’re out of time, but before we wrap, talk to me as Max Dawson, Survivor professor. Check the pulse of this franchise for me. After 15 years on the air, 30 seasons deep, what’s the state of Survivor?

Renaissance. It’s a renaissance we’ve seen since Philippines, with obviously a few missteps. But Survivor is as good and healthy as it’s ever been. And I confidently predict, much like Jeff Probst, that this season will go down in history as one of the best, if not the best, in the history of the show.

Those are big words!

Yeah, well, listen. I have such a great track record for making bold predictions, based on last night, so everyone should obviously listen to me.



Josh Wigler is a writer, editor and podcaster who has been published by MTV News, New York Magazine, Comic Book Resources, Digital Trends and more. He is the co-author of The Evolution of Strategy: 30 Seasons of Survivor, an audiobook chronicling the reality TV show’s transformation. Josh hosts podcasts about film and television on PostShowRecaps.com.

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