I got a submission from the amazing @keiuolari​, who addressed the problem of whether Sam’s selflessness and self-sacrifice may be doing him more harm than good. This paragraph really hit home (full message and my rambling response under the cut):

[I]s there such a thing as being too accepting, too understanding and accommodating? Where’s that line, between giving unwavering support because you’re a strong, selfless, amazing person, and giving unwavering support because you’ve decided that you just don’t matter as much as your brother?

keiuolari said: Looking back at Sam’s reaction over the Amara reveal, and at Sam in 11x14, it left me with weirdly mixed feelings? On the one hand, I’m thrilled, because Sam’s consistently offering Dean the acceptance and validation that Sam himself should’ve been getting all along. Like, there’s a crystal clear pattern of Sam showing Dean unwavering support, unfailingly, through the seasons. Even when Sam pushes back, like with Gadreel, he’s frankly being kinder and more reasonable about it that anyone has a right to expect. Basically, Sam is showing, time and again, how brothering someone is done, and I love it. But on the other hand, it also kinda worries me, because - is there such a thing as being too accepting, too understanding and accommodating? Where’s that line, between giving unwavering support because you’re a strong, selfless, amazing person, and giving unwavering support because you’ve decided that you just don’t matter as much as your brother? Sam’s selflessness and constant readiness to sacrifice himself, for the world, for Dean (he offered up his freaking soul, goddammit, without batting an eyelash, and then took time to be there for Dean and talk about Dean’s feelings, despite Lucifer being topside in Cas and having just tried to kill Sam by ripping his soul apart, no, I’m not still emotional over that, I’m not crying, what are you talking about, you’re the one who’s crying), how quickly he’s able to move past wrongs done to him, it’s almost as if he doesn’t view these things as having happened to him, like he’s dissociating from his experiences. I can’t help but feel that maybe, if Sam were to take things a bit more personally, if he were a bit… I’m not sure if meaner is the precise word I’m looking for, but if he weren’t quite so understanding and supportive, perhaps Dean would finally be forced to review how he treats him?



I absolutely agree. I know some wonderful people (denugis, I think, has written some great stuff about this) have talked about this at length before and made absolutely amazing points about how Sam’s selflessness is bad for him, so there’s not really anything I can add to what has already been said and the fantastic points you made in your message. This is a really cool topic, though, and it definitely deserves attention, so I’d like to talk about it a bit.

I do think that it would be better for Sam’s relationship with Dean if he weren’t so forgiving, because I think Dean sometimes assumes—like he said in early seasons—that Sam is this outspoken, rebellious kid who would fight tooth and nail if anything offended him, and while he does that for other people, he’s been less likely, in recent seasons, to speak up for himself. Dean seems to be so busy dealing with his own problems that he just assumes that Sam will deal with his in the same way, but that’s just not the case a lot of the time. More often than not, Sam seems to distract himself from his own problems by trying to help other people. If Sam were more assertive, I really do think their relationship would change for the better.

Take s11, when Sam kept at Dean for criticizing and mocking Sam’s faith and didn’t give up on asserting his viewpoint. Then again, Sam saw all of it as a way to save the world and not an attempt to encourage Dean to respect Sam’s beliefs and choices, so I’m not sure if that’s a big development. Either way, when Sam kept at it despite Dean’s outright rejection, Dean eventually listened and agreed to back Sam up. Dean easily falls back into old habits and accepts the status quo, and while I do think that Dean should adopt some more healthy habits when it comes to how he treats Sam, I don’t realistically see it happening unless Sam insists on it.

At the same time, though, I don’t necessarily believe that Sam’s forgiveness itself is bad. You made a great point when you said that his forgiveness may be motivated by a belief that his life doesn’t matter as much as Dean’s and that he seems to be dissociating from his own trauma by focusing on Dean’s.

I don’t think a person can be too forgiving. Having the strength to let go of grudges and past wrongs is amazing, and with all the wrongs Sam has endured, I’m almost glad he finds it in himself to forgive, because I don’t think he’d be alive if he was carrying those around with him all the time.

That said, though, I absolutely agree that his intentions and motivations matter, and I’m with you in thinking they’re terribly damaging. Sam’s forgiveness isn’t necessarily wrong, but the motivations behind it, in my opinion, are terribly toxic and need to be addressed.

Ideally, if a person does something to hurt another, that person will recognize his sin, show remorse, and honestly apologize and express intent not to do it again, and then the victim will learn to move past the pain and eventually forgive.

Not so in Supernatural.

The whole first half is missing. Not only do the people who hurt Sam rarely apologize or show genuine remorse, they usually don’t even recognize what they’ve done wrong. In one of the most horrific cases (the Gadreel possession), Dean said that he would do the same thing again. I’m not at all surprised that he held on to his anger about what Dean did to him. Regardless of Dean’s intent, what he did to Sam was wrong. Sam’s anger was healthy. It said that he wasn’t just a thing to be used and tossed around. Throughout the next couple seasons, though, Sam was relentlessly criticized for standing up to Dean. Side characters like Kevin told him he should just give in and forgive Dean for what he’d done. Episode after episode implied that Sam was in the wrong for being bothered by Dean’s shocking non-apology.

Yet, as usual, Sam turned all his attention to the Mark when it became a problem and tossed aside his own justified anger at what Dean allowed/encouraged Gadreel to do without Sam’s consent.

Sam has forgiven people who have more or less said they’ll do the same to him again.

I find that both awe-inspiring and horrifying. It’s about the same way I see his attempts at self-sacrifice. His willingness to give up his life for every good cause is really beautiful and heroic, but the lack of self-worth that seems to motivate him is tragic.

And I’m never quite sure if he’s primarily motivated by his own feelings about himself, the way others treat his attempts to stand up for himself, or a disastrous combination of both. (Probably that last one, let’s be real.)

We know from season 8 and from the early seasons that he’s always been quick to assume that he’s somehow monstrous or unclean. In the early seasons, Sam saw himself as angry, filled with a sourceless rage (though with what he’d endured, it actually made a lot of sense). He feared and hated that part of himself. I wouldn’t be surprised at all if his forgiveness was some twisted sort of penance or an attempt to try to become better or more pure. He sees himself as infernal and unworthy, so he tries to counteract it by being saintly. Obviously, this is just speculation, but it seems possible.

That, and Sam has also been ‘trained’ to devalue his own emotions. His attempts to stand up for himself have been consistently met with scorn. Whether he’s forgiving others because he genuinely doesn’t feel he’s worthy of consideration or because he just doesn’t want to cause conflict, it’s not healthy. I have no issue with Sam being forgiving, but his motivations for it really worry me.

I don’t think it’s impossible for a person to be both assertive and forgiving. I want Sam to love himself enough that he feels comfortable standing up for himself, but I also admire his capacity to love others.

It kind of falls in line with Jared’s most recent campaign, though: there’s no way he can continue to care for others if he neglects himself and his own needs, and I hope that’s something he learns this season.