careyfan

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Member Back to Top Post by careyfan on Hey folks,



I'm glad that some of my thoughts are adding value to some members of the War Robots community here. It's been about 2 weeks since my original post, and things are still evolving. Here are some quick takes:



*Loki: top clans like LOST, NOOBZ and others are definitely using this in top clan play, either as an opening bot or middlegame disruptor. A quote from HEAT player after a hard-fought game: "Credit goes to Adrian's Loki....". Appreciate the sportsmanship from said player! In random games, Loki's impact on the game is still mixed. In clan vs. clan games, it's definitely having a huge impact.

*Ares: still the most common death dealer on the battlefield. In clan vs. clan play, it used to be that the squad with a higher Ares count was a decent predictor of the outcome of the game. In our games, not so much. Other high Champions League clans almost always have a higher Ares count than we do, but our results against them have improved since release of Pilots.

*Tanks: I predicted that TANKS would have the highest impact on the new meta. I still stand by this. However, it is clearer, now, that each of the tanks has its specific weaknesses. In one recent video posted by Feisty, it made the Falcon look pretty bad...as a well coordinated Ares train could just backpedal together and methodically blow them all up. I feel like we'll need a mix of different tank types: Fenrir to defend, Invader to assault, Falcon to soak up damage.

*Blitz: starting to see this bot as an excellent Ares assassin, but you have to find a lone Ares to be effective. Or run anti control module and then kamikaze into 2+ Ares.



TBD: we haven't played around enough organized hell burners running anti control. Remains to be seen whether or not hell burner deserves a critical hangar spot over other bots.



I mentioned support-hybrid bots like Nemesis, Mender and Tyr (at least in theory) have a place in top meta games. Many of our players run 1 or more of these bots, but it's been hard to observe or measure their impact on the game. We've been able to win some really tough clan vs. clan games WITH these bots in our lineup, so it seems it's not hurting us...but I'm not sure if they're always helping, either.



I realize that VOX is not necessarily a proxy for other champion league clans, but I thought shedding light on things might help show where we think things are going. Here's a snapshot of 20 random pilots in our clan and the # of Ares they run:



player 1: 0

player 2: 2

player 3: 2

player 4: 1

player 5: 0

player 6: 0

player 7: 1

player 8: 0

player 9: 2

player 10: 2

player 11: 2

player 12: 0

player 13: 1

player 14: 1

player 15: 4 (!)

player 16: 1

player 17: 0

player 18: 1

player 19: 1

player 20: 1



This is an average of just over 1 Ares per hangar. Notably, 1 of our players still runs 4 in his main hangar, while some others (Robbie, Adrian, Brian were part of this snapshot) aren't presently running any Ares at all. Most of us have reduced the overall # of Ares in our hangars. Part of this is because we're actively searching for ways to counter them with other hangar compositions. The other is that many of us just have more fun playing with different hangar setups.



Cheers!

Carey







careyfan

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Member Back to Top Post by careyfan on dobby said: Have you tried getting one of Bob's many Menders to piggy back your Falcons? Not saying it would work, I know from running my own Falcons how much they struggle against more than one coordinated Ares, but would like to see what a dedicated healer could do behind 2 max or near max Falcons. Plus I went up against Bob (Robbie) earlier today and he had 5 of those little buggers; I put an MK2 Avenger in his face, but he just seemed to say moar please.



From what I remember, Robbie is the ONLY member of our clan who runs multiple menders.



The other 2 guys (pretty sure it's Favre and Mark) likely run them because they are mostly F2P players. Many of us LIKE the Mender (including yours truly), but are finding it hard to have it hold a critical spot in our main hangars. I haven't been able to catch a lot of clan vs. clan games with Robbie. He always has a positive battlefield impact, just because he knows all the Mender tricks..and he's able to turn those Menders into mini tanks. When he and I have run together, he does indeed go out of his way to heal my tanks up. But they've usually been in clan vs. random games, so it's not really a great test. In theory, Menders with Falcons seems like it could really work.From what I remember, Robbie is the ONLY member of our clan who runs multiple menders.The other 2 guys (pretty sure it's Favre and Mark) likely run them because they are mostly F2P players. Many of us LIKE the Mender (including yours truly), but are finding it hard to have it hold a critical spot in our main hangars.

careyfan

Hellburner



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Member Back to Top Post by careyfan on Fluffybane said: Thanks for all the great info! What do you guys think about the Blitz and do you think it would be viable in the current meta? I am wondering if I should replace my strider with him, seems a lot of fun.

I definitely think Blitz is meta worthy. Chino Q uses it to great effect in a lot of our games specifically as an assassin bot. He will try to isolate a lone target, or he will hit an unsuspecting cluster of bots from an angle, and then rush in.



Is it worthy enough to replace a Strider? Hard to say. I think they're both really solid. I don't really consider the Blitz to be a beacon capper like the Strider. I personally prefer running the Strider, but that doesn't mean it's better than the Blitz.



It's sort of like comparing Nemesis to Hades. It's really your preference. I definitely think Blitz is meta worthy. Chino Q uses it to great effect in a lot of our games specifically as an assassin bot. He will try to isolate a lone target, or he will hit an unsuspecting cluster of bots from an angle, and then rush in.Is it worthy enough to replace a Strider? Hard to say. I think they're both really solid. I don't really consider the Blitz to be a beacon capper like the Strider. I personally prefer running the Strider, but that doesn't mean it's better than the Blitz.It's sort of like comparing Nemesis to Hades. It's really your preference.

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Member Back to Top Post by Deleted on careyfan said: Fluffybane said: Thanks for all the great info! What do you guys think about the Blitz and do you think it would be viable in the current meta? I am wondering if I should replace my strider with him, seems a lot of fun.



Is it worthy enough to replace a Strider? Hard to say. I think they're both really solid. I don't really consider the Blitz to be a beacon capper like the Strider. I personally prefer running the Strider, but that doesn't mean it's better than the Blitz.



It's sort of like comparing Nemesis to Hades. It's really your preference. I definitely think Blitz is meta worthy. Chino Q uses it to great effect in a lot of our games specifically as an assassin bot. He will try to isolate a lone target, or he will hit an unsuspecting cluster of bots from an angle, and then rush in.Is it worthy enough to replace a Strider? Hard to say. I think they're both really solid. I don't really consider the Blitz to be a beacon capper like the Strider. I personally prefer running the Strider, but that doesn't mean it's better than the Blitz.It's sort of like comparing Nemesis to Hades. It's really your preference.



My Fen is L8 with L9 Glory and Storms. God likes are not uncommon in this monster bot.



Happy Hunting! Hello. If you have a chance, please thank Chino Q for me...Bob Dylan posted a link to the Qâs videos, where he showed me the Storms on Fenrir are the 「dookie」! They indeed are the 「dookie」, for sure!My Fen is L8 with L9 Glory and Storms. God likes are not uncommon in this monster bot.Happy Hunting!

careyfan

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Member Back to Top Post by careyfan on @greenbanana said: careyfan said:



Is it worthy enough to replace a Strider? Hard to say. I think they're both really solid. I don't really consider the Blitz to be a beacon capper like the Strider. I personally prefer running the Strider, but that doesn't mean it's better than the Blitz.



It's sort of like comparing Nemesis to Hades. It's really your preference. I definitely think Blitz is meta worthy. Chino Q uses it to great effect in a lot of our games specifically as an assassin bot. He will try to isolate a lone target, or he will hit an unsuspecting cluster of bots from an angle, and then rush in.Is it worthy enough to replace a Strider? Hard to say. I think they're both really solid. I don't really consider the Blitz to be a beacon capper like the Strider. I personally prefer running the Strider, but that doesn't mean it's better than the Blitz.It's sort of like comparing Nemesis to Hades. It's really your preference.



My Fen is L8 with L9 Glory and Storms. God likes are not uncommon in this monster bot.



Happy Hunting! Hello. If you have a chance, please thank Chino Q for me...Bob Dylan posted a link to the Qâs videos, where he showed me the Storms on Fenrir are the 「dookie」! They indeed are the 「dookie」, for sure!My Fen is L8 with L9 Glory and Storms. God likes are not uncommon in this monster bot.Happy Hunting! Will do! Glad he helped.

orionpax

Ao Jun



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Member Back to Top Post by orionpax on careyfan said:



I'm glad that some of my thoughts are adding value to some members of the War Robots community here. It's been about 2 weeks since my original post, and things are still evolving. Here are some quick takes:



*Loki: top clans like LOST, NOOBZ and others are definitely using this in top clan play, either as an opening bot or middlegame disruptor. A quote from HEAT player after a hard-fought game: "Credit goes to Adrian's Loki....". Appreciate the sportsmanship from said player! In random games, Loki's impact on the game is still mixed. In clan vs. clan games, it's definitely having a huge impact.

*Ares: still the most common death dealer on the battlefield. In clan vs. clan play, it used to be that the squad with a higher Ares count was a decent predictor of the outcome of the game. In our games, not so much. Other high Champions League clans almost always have a higher Ares count than we do, but our results against them have improved since release of Pilots.

*Tanks: I predicted that TANKS would have the highest impact on the new meta. I still stand by this. However, it is clearer, now, that each of the tanks has its specific weaknesses. In one recent video posted by Feisty, it made the Falcon look pretty bad...as a well coordinated Ares train could just backpedal together and methodically blow them all up. I feel like we'll need a mix of different tank types: Fenrir to defend, Invader to assault, Falcon to soak up damage.

*Blitz: starting to see this bot as an excellent Ares assassin, but you have to find a lone Ares to be effective. Or run anti control module and then kamikaze into 2+ Ares.



TBD: we haven't played around enough organized hell burners running anti control. Remains to be seen whether or not hell burner deserves a critical hangar spot over other bots.



I mentioned support-hybrid bots like Nemesis, Mender and Tyr (at least in theory) have a place in top meta games. Many of our players run 1 or more of these bots, but it's been hard to observe or measure their impact on the game. We've been able to win some really tough clan vs. clan games WITH these bots in our lineup, so it seems it's not hurting us...but I'm not sure if they're always helping, either.



I realize that VOX is not necessarily a proxy for other champion league clans, but I thought shedding light on things might help show where we think things are going. Here's a snapshot of 20 random pilots in our clan and the # of Ares they run:



player 1: 0

player 2: 2

player 3: 2

player 4: 1

player 5: 0

player 6: 0

player 7: 1

player 8: 0

player 9: 2

player 10: 2

player 11: 2

player 12: 0

player 13: 1

player 14: 1

player 15: 4 (!)

player 16: 1

player 17: 0

player 18: 1

player 19: 1

player 20: 1



This is an average of just over 1 Ares per hangar. Notably, 1 of our players still runs 4 in his main hangar, while some others (Robbie, Adrian, Brian were part of this snapshot) aren't presently running any Ares at all. Most of us have reduced the overall # of Ares in our hangars. Part of this is because we're actively searching for ways to counter them with other hangar compositions. The other is that many of us just have more fun playing with different hangar setups.



Cheers!

Carey





Hey folks,I'm glad that some of my thoughts are adding value to some members of the War Robots community here. It's been about 2 weeks since my original post, and things are still evolving. Here are some quick takes:*Loki: top clans like LOST, NOOBZ and others are definitely using this in top clan play, either as an opening bot or middlegame disruptor. A quote from HEAT player after a hard-fought game: "Credit goes to Adrian's Loki....". Appreciate the sportsmanship from said player! In random games, Loki's impact on the game is still mixed. In clan vs. clan games, it's definitely having a huge impact.*Ares: still the most common death dealer on the battlefield. In clan vs. clan play, it used to be that the squad with a higher Ares count was a decent predictor of the outcome of the game. In our games, not so much. Other high Champions League clans almost always have a higher Ares count than we do, but our results against them have improved since release of Pilots.*Tanks: I predicted that TANKS would have the highest impact on the new meta. I still stand by this. However, it is clearer, now, that each of the tanks has its specific weaknesses. In one recent video posted by Feisty, it made the Falcon look pretty bad...as a well coordinated Ares train could just backpedal together and methodically blow them all up. I feel like we'll need a mix of different tank types: Fenrir to defend, Invader to assault, Falcon to soak up damage.*Blitz: starting to see this bot as an excellent Ares assassin, but you have to find a lone Ares to be effective. Or run anti control module and then kamikaze into 2+ Ares.TBD: we haven't played around enough organized hell burners running anti control. Remains to be seen whether or not hell burner deserves a critical hangar spot over other bots.I mentioned support-hybrid bots like Nemesis, Mender and Tyr (at least in theory) have a place in top meta games. Many of our players run 1 or more of these bots, but it's been hard to observe or measure their impact on the game. We've been able to win some really tough clan vs. clan games WITH these bots in our lineup, so it seems it's not hurting us...but I'm not sure if they're always helping, either.I realize that VOX is not necessarily a proxy for other champion league clans, but I thought shedding light on things might help show where we think things are going. Here's a snapshot of 20 random pilots in our clan and the # of Ares they run:player 1: 0player 2: 2player 3: 2player 4: 1player 5: 0player 6: 0player 7: 1player 8: 0player 9: 2player 10: 2player 11: 2player 12: 0player 13: 1player 14: 1player 15: 4 (!)player 16: 1player 17: 0player 18: 1player 19: 1player 20: 1This is an average of just over 1 Ares per hangar. Notably, 1 of our players still runs 4 in his main hangar, while some others (Robbie, Adrian, Brian were part of this snapshot) aren't presently running any Ares at all. Most of us have reduced the overall # of Ares in our hangars. Part of this is because we're actively searching for ways to counter them with other hangar compositions. The other is that many of us just have more fun playing with different hangar setups.Cheers!Carey

. I can’t wait till you guys figure it out so I can change my hanger up. . I can’t wait till you guys figure it out so I can change my hanger up.

krebby

Falcon



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Member Back to Top Post by krebby on



I think you're right about the Loki.



That thing is already a serious headache, and it will become even more of a problem once the speed module hits the live server. Just about the only thing that will keep it in check in random games is that I imagine few people choose to run a pure beacon thief over something with more firepower. We've all experienced random games where everyone seems so focused on brawling that they simply ignore the beacons. Clan matches, are, of course, a completely different story.





Concerning your prediction about declining use of the Ares. Look, you seem like a nice guy and I mean absolutely no disrespect, but I think your prediction is incorrect (absent a significant nerf that doesn't appear to be coming). The Ares will remain the dominant meta bot for now for the following reasons:



(1) The Ares is so powerful that it forces every Champ league hangar to either try to match it or counter it.



The May Legend League meta report showed that approximately 70%(!) of the legend league bots were Ares. That level is higher than the Spectre when it was released. I applaud your clan's active attempts to counter the Ares; most others simply join the crowd. But the Ares remains the single most dominant meta bot in War Robots, at least since I started playing about 2 years ago.





(2) Investing in an Ares (let alone multiple ones) is incredibly expensive, so people will not let go of those investments lightly.



The bot is expensive. The upgrades are expensive. The best weapons are expensive. Even the most spend-thrift whale pods will probably pause before abandoning their $10,000 bots. Pilots make the cost even higher for switching. Even if you transfer your pilot to a new bot, you still are forced to pay to respec the skills. You're paying a considerable sum if you're selecting optimal skills. So do you bench a solid meta-defining performer for an unproven set-up? Maybe, but that's a tall order.





(3) Your clan (VOX) is one that seems unusually willing to experiment compared to most; I think you're overestimating how willing other clans are to trying new things.



From what I've seen, VOX tries to innovate. The most obvious successful innovation was the Ancile/Ecu Hellburner. Prior to VOX's introduction of this tactic, the Hellburner was considered an acceptable, if fairly low-end-of-the-meta bot. The Ancile/Ecu set-up was pretty much just considered an amusing build. Perhaps good for a few laughs but not suitable for top-level play. And although that experiment was a success, I'm willing to bet that your clan has had plenty of interesting ideas that showed some promise, but just didn't work out. In practice what that means is you're often running unproven set-ups which may be inferior to the current meta, and almost certainly are not leveled up completely and kitted out with optimal pilot skills. In short, you're fighting from a disadvantage.



Most clans simply aren't willing to sacrifice a proven advantage to try something that might not work. For some clans it might be because they care far more about winning than improving. For other clans, it might be that their members can only afford a single competitive hangar. Either way, VOX's approach to the game is very different from that of most clans, who tend to wait and adopt proven tech choices.



(As a side note, I think it is obvious that some clans *could* experiment like VOX, but don't because they largely focus on winning. Those also tend to be the clans that stream-snipe Adrian when y'all are running legacy bots to entertain viewers. Those clans are willing to stream snipe in order to obtain an unfair fight. That says a lot about how little they care about a fun match, and how much they care about seeing the "victory" screen.)





----



That said, I think you're right about the future of Tanks. linearblade Interesting thoughts and analysis.That thing is already a serious headache, and it will become even more of a problem once the speed module hits the live server. Just about the only thing that will keep it in check in random games is that I imagine few people choose to run a pure beacon thief over something with more firepower. We've all experienced random games where everyone seems so focused on brawling that they simply ignore the beacons. Clan matches, are, of course, a completely different story.Concerning your prediction about declining use of the Ares. Look, you seem like a nice guy and I mean absolutely no disrespect, but I think your prediction is incorrect (absent a significant nerf that doesn't appear to be coming). The Ares will remain the dominant meta bot for now for the following reasons:The May Legend League meta report showed that approximately 70%(!) of the legend league bots were Ares. That level is higher than the Spectre when it was released. I applaud your clan's active attempts to counter the Ares; most others simply join the crowd. But the Ares remains the single most dominant meta bot in War Robots, at least since I started playing about 2 years ago.The bot is expensive. The upgrades are expensive. The best weapons are expensive. Even the most spend-thrift whale pods will probably pause before abandoning their $10,000 bots. Pilots make the cost even higher for switching. Even if you transfer your pilot to a new bot, you still are forced to pay to respec the skills. You're paying a considerable sum if you're selecting optimal skills. So do you bench a solid meta-defining performer for an unproven set-up? Maybe, but that's a tall order.From what I've seen, VOX tries to innovate. The most obvious successful innovation was the Ancile/Ecu Hellburner. Prior to VOX's introduction of this tactic, the Hellburner was considered an acceptable, if fairly low-end-of-the-meta bot. The Ancile/Ecu set-up was pretty much just considered an amusing build. Perhaps good for a few laughs but not suitable for top-level play. And although that experiment was a success, I'm willing to bet that your clan has had plenty of interesting ideas that showed some promise, but just didn't work out. In practice what that means is you're often running unproven set-ups which may be inferior to the current meta, and almost certainly are not leveled up completely and kitted out with optimal pilot skills. In short, you're fighting from a disadvantage.Most clans simply aren't willing to sacrifice a proven advantage to try something that might not work. For some clans it might be because they care far more about winning than improving. For other clans, it might be that their members can only afford a single competitive hangar. Either way, VOX's approach to the game is very different from that of most clans, who tend to wait and adopt proven tech choices.(As a side note, I think it is obvious that some clans *could* experiment like VOX, but don't because they largely focus on winning. Those also tend to be the clans that stream-snipe Adrian when y'all are running legacy bots to entertain viewers. Those clans are willing to stream snipe in order to obtain an unfair fight. That says a lot about how little they care about a fun match, and how much they care about seeing the "victory" screen.)----That said, I think you're right about the future of Tanks.has emphasized the value of raw stats and tankiness repeatedly over the last year. Pilot skills are percentage-based, so they provide a larger advantage to bots that bring huge stats to the battlefield. The Ares' power is not tied to a deep health pool, but rather to the absurdly strong special ability. But the current king Ares is so firmly entrenched, I don't see him losing his grip on power. At least not anytime soon.

godzillasaurus

Hades



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Member Back to Top Post by godzillasaurus on I just have to comment on your Ares count for your clanmates.



My current clan isn't very Ares heavy. We usually have Experts to Masters players, and I mostly only see either legacy bots, or relevant bots that aren't top meta.



Edit: I went and roughly counted the top percent of my clan, and around 50% didn't have Ares in their hangar. There was one guy with 2 Ares, but that was it. There were a handful (including me) who ran 1 Ares in their hangar. The clan leader also had 1 Ares, but they also ran 2 Ao Juns and 2 Hades in their second hangar. Otherwise, the rest are mostly well equipped legacy bots or other bots that aren't top meta. Glad that my clan isn't Ares reliant lmao



Also, you're probably gonna be right about Loki, but for my matches, more in the type of "all team members in the area start trying to beat up Loki and forget about everything else" type of manner, kind of like an Invader. It usually ends in a loss for us.







careyfan

Hellburner



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Member Back to Top Post by careyfan on krebby said:



I think you're right about the Loki.



That thing is already a serious headache, and it will become even more of a problem once the speed module hits the live server. Just about the only thing that will keep it in check in random games is that I imagine few people choose to run a pure beacon thief over something with more firepower. We've all experienced random games where everyone seems so focused on brawling that they simply ignore the beacons. Clan matches, are, of course, a completely different story.





Concerning your prediction about declining use of the Ares. Look, you seem like a nice guy and I mean absolutely no disrespect, but I think your prediction is incorrect (absent a significant nerf that doesn't appear to be coming). The Ares will remain the dominant meta bot for now for the following reasons:



(1) The Ares is so powerful that it forces every Champ league hangar to either try to match it or counter it.



The May Legend League meta report showed that approximately 70%(!) of the legend league bots were Ares. That level is higher than the Spectre when it was released. I applaud your clan's active attempts to counter the Ares; most others simply join the crowd. But the Ares remains the single most dominant meta bot in War Robots, at least since I started playing about 2 years ago.





(2) Investing in an Ares (let alone multiple ones) is incredibly expensive, so people will not let go of those investments lightly.



The bot is expensive. The upgrades are expensive. The best weapons are expensive. Even the most spend-thrift whale pods will probably pause before abandoning their $10,000 bots. Pilots make the cost even higher for switching. Even if you transfer your pilot to a new bot, you still are forced to pay to respec the skills. You're paying a considerable sum if you're selecting optimal skills. So do you bench a solid meta-defining performer for an unproven set-up? Maybe, but that's a tall order.





(3) Your clan (VOX) is one that seems unusually willing to experiment compared to most; I think you're overestimating how willing other clans are to trying new things.



From what I've seen, VOX tries to innovate. The most obvious successful innovation was the Ancile/Ecu Hellburner. Prior to VOX's introduction of this tactic, the Hellburner was considered an acceptable, if fairly low-end-of-the-meta bot. The Ancile/Ecu set-up was pretty much just considered an amusing build. Perhaps good for a few laughs but not suitable for top-level play. And although that experiment was a success, I'm willing to bet that your clan has had plenty of interesting ideas that showed some promise, but just didn't work out. In practice what that means is you're often running unproven set-ups which may be inferior to the current meta, and almost certainly are not leveled up completely and kitted out with optimal pilot skills. In short, you're fighting from a disadvantage.



Most clans simply aren't willing to sacrifice a proven advantage to try something that might not work. For some clans it might be because they care far more about winning than improving. For other clans, it might be that their members can only afford a single competitive hangar. Either way, VOX's approach to the game is very different from that of most clans, who tend to wait and adopt proven tech choices.



(As a side note, I think it is obvious that some clans *could* experiment like VOX, but don't because they largely focus on winning. Those also tend to be the clans that stream-snipe Adrian when y'all are running legacy bots to entertain viewers. Those clans are willing to stream snipe in order to obtain an unfair fight. That says a lot about how little they care about a fun match, and how much they care about seeing the "victory" screen.)





----



That said, I think you're right about the future of Tanks. linearblade Interesting thoughts and analysis.That thing is already a serious headache, and it will become even more of a problem once the speed module hits the live server. Just about the only thing that will keep it in check in random games is that I imagine few people choose to run a pure beacon thief over something with more firepower. We've all experienced random games where everyone seems so focused on brawling that they simply ignore the beacons. Clan matches, are, of course, a completely different story.Concerning your prediction about declining use of the Ares. Look, you seem like a nice guy and I mean absolutely no disrespect, but I think your prediction is incorrect (absent a significant nerf that doesn't appear to be coming). The Ares will remain the dominant meta bot for now for the following reasons:The May Legend League meta report showed that approximately 70%(!) of the legend league bots were Ares. That level is higher than the Spectre when it was released. I applaud your clan's active attempts to counter the Ares; most others simply join the crowd. But the Ares remains the single most dominant meta bot in War Robots, at least since I started playing about 2 years ago.The bot is expensive. The upgrades are expensive. The best weapons are expensive. Even the most spend-thrift whale pods will probably pause before abandoning their $10,000 bots. Pilots make the cost even higher for switching. Even if you transfer your pilot to a new bot, you still are forced to pay to respec the skills. You're paying a considerable sum if you're selecting optimal skills. So do you bench a solid meta-defining performer for an unproven set-up? Maybe, but that's a tall order.From what I've seen, VOX tries to innovate. The most obvious successful innovation was the Ancile/Ecu Hellburner. Prior to VOX's introduction of this tactic, the Hellburner was considered an acceptable, if fairly low-end-of-the-meta bot. The Ancile/Ecu set-up was pretty much just considered an amusing build. Perhaps good for a few laughs but not suitable for top-level play. And although that experiment was a success, I'm willing to bet that your clan has had plenty of interesting ideas that showed some promise, but just didn't work out. In practice what that means is you're often running unproven set-ups which may be inferior to the current meta, and almost certainly are not leveled up completely and kitted out with optimal pilot skills. In short, you're fighting from a disadvantage.Most clans simply aren't willing to sacrifice a proven advantage to try something that might not work. For some clans it might be because they care far more about winning than improving. For other clans, it might be that their members can only afford a single competitive hangar. Either way, VOX's approach to the game is very different from that of most clans, who tend to wait and adopt proven tech choices.(As a side note, I think it is obvious that some clans *could* experiment like VOX, but don't because they largely focus on winning. Those also tend to be the clans that stream-snipe Adrian when y'all are running legacy bots to entertain viewers. Those clans are willing to stream snipe in order to obtain an unfair fight. That says a lot about how little they care about a fun match, and how much they care about seeing the "victory" screen.)----That said, I think you're right about the future of Tanks.has emphasized the value of raw stats and tankiness repeatedly over the last year. Pilot skills are percentage-based, so they provide a larger advantage to bots that bring huge stats to the battlefield. The Ares' power is not tied to a deep health pool, but rather to the absurdly strong special ability. But the current king Ares is so firmly entrenched, I don't see him losing his grip on power. At least not anytime soon.



No disrespect taken! In fact, thanks for the well thought out response. As mentioned, VOX isn't necessarily a proxy for other Champions League clans, and you're right-- we tend to experiment more than others.



Meta changes take time. I also agree with you that the dominant bot in most high level Champions League hangars will continue to be the Ares. And 70% in May is a crazy number. Still, I expect those numbers to fall pretty significantly over time.



I also agree that most people will find the switching costs to be too high, so they will continue to go with their tried and true Ares. But as more and more data comes out, and as other high Champions League clans make adjustments, so too will they adjust. It will just take longer. And yes, the simple fact that we have been actively searching for ways to counter the Ares is a testament to how powerful the bot is.



As with any meta, change takes time. Spectre and Ares seem to be the bots that most people remember (and the data could in fact prove that these two bots are the most game changing ever produced by Pixonic). That said, I also remember when the British bots came out, and how people were complaining about the power of the Ancilot...and then the Dash bots came out, which rendered their British bots nearly obsolete overnight. In this case, it's a bit different...because although some of us believe that tanks and more versatile hangar compositions are a viable counter to the Ares, our theories still haven't quite stood the test of time. The last two bot releases haven't rendered the Ares obsolete.



I think you and I are more closely aligned than you probably think. I agree-- people will wait for something proven to happen before they decide to make wholesale changes to their hangars. As mentioned in previous posts, there are even some in our own clan who remain on the fence about our deep dive into tanks. And yes, for every breakthrough we find, there are likely failures as well. Still, I guess it won't stop us from continuing to experiment...because that's a big part of the fun...at least for me. And the short term results of our experimentation have been really, really encouraging. And despite our internal fence sitters, many of us have been converted into total believers.



Will be interesting to see what the Jun, July and August data show.



Carey





Hi Krebby,No disrespect taken! In fact, thanks for the well thought out response. As mentioned, VOX isn't necessarily a proxy for other Champions League clans, and you're right-- we tend to experiment more than others.Meta changes take time. I also agree with you that the dominant bot in most high level Champions League hangars will continue to be the Ares. And 70% in May is a crazy number. Still, I expect those numbers to fall pretty significantly over time.I also agree that most people will find the switching costs to be too high, so they will continue to go with their tried and true Ares. But as more and more data comes out, and as other high Champions League clans make adjustments, so too will they adjust. It will just take longer. And yes, the simple fact that we have been actively searching for ways to counter the Ares is a testament to how powerful the bot is.As with any meta, change takes time. Spectre and Ares seem to be the bots that most people remember (and the data could in fact prove that these two bots are the most game changing ever produced by Pixonic). That said, I also remember when the British bots came out, and how people were complaining about the power of the Ancilot...and then the Dash bots came out, which rendered their British bots nearly obsolete overnight. In this case, it's a bit different...because although some of usthat tanks and more versatile hangar compositions are a viable counter to the Ares, our theories still haven't quite stood the test of time. The last two bot releases haven't rendered the Ares obsolete.I think you and I are more closely aligned than you probably think. I agree-- people will wait for something proven to happen before they decide to make wholesale changes to their hangars. As mentioned in previous posts, there are even some in our own clan who remain on the fence about our deep dive into tanks. And yes, for every breakthrough we find, there are likely failures as well. Still, I guess it won't stop us from continuing to experiment...because that's a big part of the fun...at least for me. And the short term results of our experimentation have been really, really encouraging. And despite our internal fence sitters, many of us have been converted into total believers.Will be interesting to see what the Jun, July and August data show.Carey

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My current clan isn't very Ares heavy. We usually have Experts to Masters players, and I mostly only see either legacy bots, or relevant bots that aren't top meta.



Edit: I went and roughly counted the top percent of my clan, and around 50% didn't have Ares in their hangar. There was one guy with 2 Ares, but that was it. There were a handful (including me) who ran 1 Ares in their hangar. The clan leader also had 1 Ares, but they also ran 2 Ao Juns and 2 Hades in their second hangar. Otherwise, the rest are mostly well equipped legacy bots or other bots that aren't top meta. Glad that my clan isn't Ares reliant lmao





I just have to comment on your Ares count for your clanmates.My current clan isn't very Ares heavy. We usually have Experts to Masters players, and I mostly only see either legacy bots, or relevant bots that aren't top meta.Edit: I went and roughly counted the top percent of my clan, and around 50% didn't have Ares in their hangar. There was one guy with 2 Ares, but that was it. There were a handful (including me) who ran 1 Ares in their hangar. The clan leader also had 1 Ares, but they also ran 2 Ao Juns and 2 Hades in their second hangar. Otherwise, the rest are mostly well equipped legacy bots or other bots that aren't top meta. Glad that my clan isn't Ares reliant lmao Aye, my Ares counts will definitely be more relevant to Champions League clans. We definitely run Ares....just not in as high of numbers as other Champions League clans. The frequency of high end meta bots will likely decrease as you go down in league ranks.

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Member Back to Top Post by Fluffybane on careyfan said: godzillasaurus said:



My current clan isn't very Ares heavy. We usually have Experts to Masters players, and I mostly only see either legacy bots, or relevant bots that aren't top meta.



Edit: I went and roughly counted the top percent of my clan, and around 50% didn't have Ares in their hangar. There was one guy with 2 Ares, but that was it. There were a handful (including me) who ran 1 Ares in their hangar. The clan leader also had 1 Ares, but they also ran 2 Ao Juns and 2 Hades in their second hangar. Otherwise, the rest are mostly well equipped legacy bots or other bots that aren't top meta. Glad that my clan isn't Ares reliant lmao





I just have to comment on your Ares count for your clanmates.My current clan isn't very Ares heavy. We usually have Experts to Masters players, and I mostly only see either legacy bots, or relevant bots that aren't top meta.Edit: I went and roughly counted the top percent of my clan, and around 50% didn't have Ares in their hangar. There was one guy with 2 Ares, but that was it. There were a handful (including me) who ran 1 Ares in their hangar. The clan leader also had 1 Ares, but they also ran 2 Ao Juns and 2 Hades in their second hangar. Otherwise, the rest are mostly well equipped legacy bots or other bots that aren't top meta. Glad that my clan isn't Ares reliant lmao Aye, my Ares counts will definitely be more relevant to Champions League clans. We definitely run Ares....just not in as high of numbers as other Champions League clans. The frequency of high end meta bots will likely decrease as you go down in league ranks. I wish this was the case. At 5.500 cups, half of red and blue team already use at least 2 Ares in their hangar.

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Member Back to Top Post by Deleted on Loki is pretty nasty and i've seen some clans pick them up.



Ares is just too good. No one is gonna take a risk. Same with other proven meta bots, like the Ao Jun, invader, etc. If you go outside those meta bots, the A-tier bots are a short list.



Tanks don't work because they're not a counter to the meta. What's the point of absorbing all the dmg if you can't trade 1 for 1. They don't work because you need someone to break up the ares' ball, then suppress or freeze them, then finish them off.



Support bots are really map dependent. The DPS of meta bots has gone through the roof, so it can be easy to mech out in 3 minutes. Healing all these flimsy meta bots will give that side an edge. I think the map dependent nature of all the Support bots (healing) is why it's hit or miss rn. That, and none of these Support bots are considered Tanks, so they need an escort. You'll need a bot that can peel for it, smtg like an invader or a greek bot.



So there has to be another ball. Start with a Tank, like a Falcon. Add on a healer like Mender. Then its escort like an Ares. This sounds just as complex as an Ares train, so i don't think this is any better as a counter.



Right now, breaking group cohesion is what's needed to stop an ares train. Or a way to distract them and get inside their bubble.

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Member Back to Top Post by linearblade on krebby

careyfan



Ares numbers will in fact not fall over time, and this is why:



Ares have almost an exponentially strong effect on one another.



1 ares, annoying,

2 ares very strong

3 ares, potentially invincible with practice

4-6 ares practically invincible



There is NOTHING that trumps “practically invincible”



There are movie style gimmicks that occasionally work.



The current game, as is, has no reliable counter.



Additionally: ares have 8 weapons. This is why ares pilots get top billing on the score card. And this is why top players prefer it. Damage is king. Beacons are second. And the ares is best at both.



The only way this will ever change is if something even more mind numbingly over powered than an ares is released. And I dread this moment.



Becsuse pixonic actually cannot outdo themselves here.



NONE of the prior content can reliably fight an ares that doesn’t want to fight, or major pilot errors etc.



Whatever csn easily deal wifh ares will fully dominate not ares as well.



And in the case of killer x > ares > others > killer x,



Players will still run ares to get the damage. And becsuse killer x would be weak against everything else.



Ares is such a problem that I suspect it will Have to be DRAMATICALLY NERFED, along with lockdown (which is totally being abused by pixonic) and when this happens there will be some serious angst on the servers. Way way worse than specters and shock train



Pixonic might be trying to balance. But it’s not a balancable bot in its current form. In order for it to be balanced, it needs to have exploitable weaknesses.



Not 3 maxed modules and bot weaknesses Ares numbers will in fact not fall over time, and this is why:Ares have almost an exponentially strong effect on one another.1 ares, annoying,2 ares very strong3 ares, potentially invincible with practice4-6 ares practically invincibleThere is NOTHING that trumps “practically invincible”There are movie style gimmicks that occasionally work.The current game, as is, has no reliable counter.Additionally: ares have 8 weapons. This is why ares pilots get top billing on the score card. And this is why top players prefer it. Damage is king. Beacons are second. And the ares is best at both.The only way this will ever change is if something even more mind numbingly over powered than an ares is released. And I dread this moment.Becsuse pixonic actually cannot outdo themselves here.NONE of the prior content can reliably fight an ares that doesn’t want to fight, or major pilot errors etc.Whatever csn easily deal wifh ares will fully dominate not ares as well.And in the case of killer x > ares > others > killer x,Players will still run ares to get the damage. And becsuse killer x would be weak against everything else.Ares is such a problem that I suspect it will Have to be DRAMATICALLY NERFED, along with lockdown (which is totally being abused by pixonic) and when this happens there will be some serious angst on the servers. Way way worse than specters and shock trainPixonic might be trying to balance. But it’s not a balancable bot in its current form. In order for it to be balanced, it needs to have exploitable weaknesses.Not 3 maxed modules and bot weaknesses

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Member Back to Top Post by T34 on linearblade said: krebby

careyfan



Ares numbers will in fact not fall over time, and this is why:



Ares have almost an exponentially strong effect on one another.



1 ares, annoying,

2 ares very strong

3 ares, potentially invincible with practice

4-6 ares practically invincible



There is NOTHING that trumps “practically invincible”



There are movie style gimmicks that occasionally work.



The current game, as is, has no reliable counter.



Additionally: ares have 8 weapons. This is why ares pilots get top billing on the score card. And this is why top players prefer it. Damage is king. Beacons are second. And the ares is best at both.



The only way this will ever change is if something even more mind numbingly over powered than an ares is released. And I dread this moment.



Becsuse pixonic actually cannot outdo themselves here.



NONE of the prior content can reliably fight an ares that doesn’t want to fight, or major pilot errors etc.



Whatever csn easily deal wifh ares will fully dominate not ares as well.



And in the case of killer x > ares > others > killer x,



Players will still run ares to get the damage. And becsuse killer x would be weak against everything else.



Ares is such a problem that I suspect it will Have to be DRAMATICALLY NERFED, along with lockdown (which is totally being abused by pixonic) and when this happens there will be some serious angst on the servers. Way way worse than specters and shock train



Pixonic might be trying to balance. But it’s not a balancable bot in its current form. In order for it to be balanced, it needs to have exploitable weaknesses.



Not 3 maxed modules and bot weaknesses Ares numbers will in fact not fall over time, and this is why:Ares have almost an exponentially strong effect on one another.1 ares, annoying,2 ares very strong3 ares, potentially invincible with practice4-6 ares practically invincibleThere is NOTHING that trumps “practically invincible”There are movie style gimmicks that occasionally work.The current game, as is, has no reliable counter.Additionally: ares have 8 weapons. This is why ares pilots get top billing on the score card. And this is why top players prefer it. Damage is king. Beacons are second. And the ares is best at both.The only way this will ever change is if something even more mind numbingly over powered than an ares is released. And I dread this moment.Becsuse pixonic actually cannot outdo themselves here.NONE of the prior content can reliably fight an ares that doesn’t want to fight, or major pilot errors etc.Whatever csn easily deal wifh ares will fully dominate not ares as well.And in the case of killer x > ares > others > killer x,Players will still run ares to get the damage. And becsuse killer x would be weak against everything else.Ares is such a problem that I suspect it will Have to be DRAMATICALLY NERFED, along with lockdown (which is totally being abused by pixonic) and when this happens there will be some serious angst on the servers. Way way worse than specters and shock trainPixonic might be trying to balance. But it’s not a balancable bot in its current form. In order for it to be balanced, it needs to have exploitable weaknesses.Not 3 maxed modules and bot weaknesses

I am starting to think the ares will not be properly nerfed directly. A lot of people who spent RM and resources on the ares and then followed up by adding pilots with multiple skills would be rather pissed off if Pix was to nerf the ares off the battle field. I minor nerfing may happen but the main nerfing will be an indirect one. Say a new bot or a new weapon or a new pilot skill that takes away the advantage of the ares. May even be a module that allows weapons to penetrate all energy shields. Imagine a volley of splash into an ares train where their shields are of no use.

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Member Back to Top Post by descentx on careyfan said:



I'm glad that some of my thoughts are adding value to some members of the War Robots community here. It's been about 2 weeks since my original post, and things are still evolving. Here are some quick takes:



*Loki: top clans like LOST, NOOBZ and others are definitely using this in top clan play, either as an opening bot or middlegame disruptor. A quote from HEAT player after a hard-fought game: "Credit goes to Adrian's Loki....". Appreciate the sportsmanship from said player! In random games, Loki's impact on the game is still mixed. In clan vs. clan games, it's definitely having a huge impact.

*Ares: still the most common death dealer on the battlefield. In clan vs. clan play, it used to be that the squad with a higher Ares count was a decent predictor of the outcome of the game. In our games, not so much. Other high Champions League clans almost always have a higher Ares count than we do, but our results against them have improved since release of Pilots.

*Tanks: I predicted that TANKS would have the highest impact on the new meta. I still stand by this. However, it is clearer, now, that each of the tanks has its specific weaknesses. In one recent video posted by Feisty, it made the Falcon look pretty bad...as a well coordinated Ares train could just backpedal together and methodically blow them all up. I feel like we'll need a mix of different tank types: Fenrir to defend, Invader to assault, Falcon to soak up damage.

*Blitz: starting to see this bot as an excellent Ares assassin, but you have to find a lone Ares to be effective. Or run anti control module and then kamikaze into 2+ Ares.



TBD: we haven't played around enough organized hell burners running anti control. Remains to be seen whether or not hell burner deserves a critical hangar spot over other bots.



I mentioned support-hybrid bots like Nemesis, Mender and Tyr (at least in theory) have a place in top meta games. Many of our players run 1 or more of these bots, but it's been hard to observe or measure their impact on the game. We've been able to win some really tough clan vs. clan games WITH these bots in our lineup, so it seems it's not hurting us...but I'm not sure if they're always helping, either.



I realize that VOX is not necessarily a proxy for other champion league clans, but I thought shedding light on things might help show where we think things are going. Here's a snapshot of 20 random pilots in our clan and the # of Ares they run:



player 1: 0

player 2: 2

player 3: 2

player 4: 1

player 5: 0

player 6: 0

player 7: 1

player 8: 0

player 9: 2

player 10: 2

player 11: 2

player 12: 0

player 13: 1

player 14: 1

player 15: 4 (!)

player 16: 1

player 17: 0

player 18: 1

player 19: 1

player 20: 1



This is an average of just over 1 Ares per hangar. Notably, 1 of our players still runs 4 in his main hangar, while some others (Robbie, Adrian, Brian were part of this snapshot) aren't presently running any Ares at all. Most of us have reduced the overall # of Ares in our hangars. Part of this is because we're actively searching for ways to counter them with other hangar compositions. The other is that many of us just have more fun playing with different hangar setups.



Cheers!

Carey





Hey folks,I'm glad that some of my thoughts are adding value to some members of the War Robots community here. It's been about 2 weeks since my original post, and things are still evolving. Here are some quick takes:*Loki: top clans like LOST, NOOBZ and others are definitely using this in top clan play, either as an opening bot or middlegame disruptor. A quote from HEAT player after a hard-fought game: "Credit goes to Adrian's Loki....". Appreciate the sportsmanship from said player! In random games, Loki's impact on the game is still mixed. In clan vs. clan games, it's definitely having a huge impact.*Ares: still the most common death dealer on the battlefield. In clan vs. clan play, it used to be that the squad with a higher Ares count was a decent predictor of the outcome of the game. In our games, not so much. Other high Champions League clans almost always have a higher Ares count than we do, but our results against them have improved since release of Pilots.*Tanks: I predicted that TANKS would have the highest impact on the new meta. I still stand by this. However, it is clearer, now, that each of the tanks has its specific weaknesses. In one recent video posted by Feisty, it made the Falcon look pretty bad...as a well coordinated Ares train could just backpedal together and methodically blow them all up. I feel like we'll need a mix of different tank types: Fenrir to defend, Invader to assault, Falcon to soak up damage.*Blitz: starting to see this bot as an excellent Ares assassin, but you have to find a lone Ares to be effective. Or run anti control module and then kamikaze into 2+ Ares.TBD: we haven't played around enough organized hell burners running anti control. Remains to be seen whether or not hell burner deserves a critical hangar spot over other bots.I mentioned support-hybrid bots like Nemesis, Mender and Tyr (at least in theory) have a place in top meta games. Many of our players run 1 or more of these bots, but it's been hard to observe or measure their impact on the game. We've been able to win some really tough clan vs. clan games WITH these bots in our lineup, so it seems it's not hurting us...but I'm not sure if they're always helping, either.I realize that VOX is not necessarily a proxy for other champion league clans, but I thought shedding light on things might help show where we think things are going. Here's a snapshot of 20 random pilots in our clan and the # of Ares they run:player 1: 0player 2: 2player 3: 2player 4: 1player 5: 0player 6: 0player 7: 1player 8: 0player 9: 2player 10: 2player 11: 2player 12: 0player 13: 1player 14: 1player 15: 4 (!)player 16: 1player 17: 0player 18: 1player 19: 1player 20: 1This is an average of just over 1 Ares per hangar. Notably, 1 of our players still runs 4 in his main hangar, while some others (Robbie, Adrian, Brian were part of this snapshot) aren't presently running any Ares at all. Most of us have reduced the overall # of Ares in our hangars. Part of this is because we're actively searching for ways to counter them with other hangar compositions. The other is that many of us just have more fun playing with different hangar setups.Cheers!Carey [br I already have predicted Loki will be abused in champ league eventually not so surprising. oh yeah... There might be anti Loki modeul in the near future that my 2© prediction

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Member Back to Top Post by descentx on krebby said:



I think you're right about the Loki.



That thing is already a serious headache, and it will become even more of a problem once the speed module hits the live server. Just about the only thing that will keep it in check in random games is that I imagine few people choose to run a pure beacon thief over something with more firepower. We've all experienced random games where everyone seems so focused on brawling that they simply ignore the beacons. Clan matches, are, of course, a completely different story.





Concerning your prediction about declining use of the Ares. Look, you seem like a nice guy and I mean absolutely no disrespect, but I think your prediction is incorrect (absent a significant nerf that doesn't appear to be coming). The Ares will remain the dominant meta bot for now for the following reasons:



(1) The Ares is so powerful that it forces every Champ league hangar to either try to match it or counter it.



The May Legend League meta report showed that approximately 70%(!) of the legend league bots were Ares. That level is higher than the Spectre when it was released. I applaud your clan's active attempts to counter the Ares; most others simply join the crowd. But the Ares remains the single most dominant meta bot in War Robots, at least since I started playing about 2 years ago.





(2) Investing in an Ares (let alone multiple ones) is incredibly expensive, so people will not let go of those investments lightly.



The bot is expensive. The upgrades are expensive. The best weapons are expensive. Even the most spend-thrift whale pods will probably pause before abandoning their $10,000 bots. Pilots make the cost even higher for switching. Even if you transfer your pilot to a new bot, you still are forced to pay to respec the skills. You're paying a considerable sum if you're selecting optimal skills. So do you bench a solid meta-defining performer for an unproven set-up? Maybe, but that's a tall order.





(3) Your clan (VOX) is one that seems unusually willing to experiment compared to most; I think you're overestimating how willing other clans are to trying new things.



From what I've seen, VOX tries to innovate. The most obvious successful innovation was the Ancile/Ecu Hellburner. Prior to VOX's introduction of this tactic, the Hellburner was considered an acceptable, if fairly low-end-of-the-meta bot. The Ancile/Ecu set-up was pretty much just considered an amusing build. Perhaps good for a few laughs but not suitable for top-level play. And although that experiment was a success, I'm willing to bet that your clan has had plenty of interesting ideas that showed some promise, but just didn't work out. In practice what that means is you're often running unproven set-ups which may be inferior to the current meta, and almost certainly are not leveled up completely and kitted out with optimal pilot skills. In short, you're fighting from a disadvantage.



Most clans simply aren't willing to sacrifice a proven advantage to try something that might not work. For some clans it might be because they care far more about winning than improving. For other clans, it might be that their members can only afford a single competitive hangar. Either way, VOX's approach to the game is very different from that of most clans, who tend to wait and adopt proven tech choices.



(As a side note, I think it is obvious that some clans *could* experiment like VOX, but don't because they largely focus on winning. Those also tend to be the clans that stream-snipe Adrian when y'all are running legacy bots to entertain viewers. Those clans are willing to stream snipe in order to obtain an unfair fight. That says a lot about how little they care about a fun match, and how much they care about seeing the "victory" screen.)





----



That said, I think you're right about the future of Tanks. linearblade Interesting thoughts and analysis.That thing is already a serious headache, and it will become even more of a problem once the speed module hits the live server. Just about the only thing that will keep it in check in random games is that I imagine few people choose to run a pure beacon thief over something with more firepower. We've all experienced random games where everyone seems so focused on brawling that they simply ignore the beacons. Clan matches, are, of course, a completely different story.Concerning your prediction about declining use of the Ares. Look, you seem like a nice guy and I mean absolutely no disrespect, but I think your prediction is incorrect (absent a significant nerf that doesn't appear to be coming). The Ares will remain the dominant meta bot for now for the following reasons:The May Legend League meta report showed that approximately 70%(!) of the legend league bots were Ares. That level is higher than the Spectre when it was released. I applaud your clan's active attempts to counter the Ares; most others simply join the crowd. But the Ares remains the single most dominant meta bot in War Robots, at least since I started playing about 2 years ago.The bot is expensive. The upgrades are expensive. The best weapons are expensive. Even the most spend-thrift whale pods will probably pause before abandoning their $10,000 bots. Pilots make the cost even higher for switching. Even if you transfer your pilot to a new bot, you still are forced to pay to respec the skills. You're paying a considerable sum if you're selecting optimal skills. So do you bench a solid meta-defining performer for an unproven set-up? Maybe, but that's a tall order.From what I've seen, VOX tries to innovate. The most obvious successful innovation was the Ancile/Ecu Hellburner. Prior to VOX's introduction of this tactic, the Hellburner was considered an acceptable, if fairly low-end-of-the-meta bot. The Ancile/Ecu set-up was pretty much just considered an amusing build. Perhaps good for a few laughs but not suitable for top-level play. And although that experiment was a success, I'm willing to bet that your clan has had plenty of interesting ideas that showed some promise, but just didn't work out. In practice what that means is you're often running unproven set-ups which may be inferior to the current meta, and almost certainly are not leveled up completely and kitted out with optimal pilot skills. In short, you're fighting from a disadvantage.Most clans simply aren't willing to sacrifice a proven advantage to try something that might not work. For some clans it might be because they care far more about winning than improving. For other clans, it might be that their members can only afford a single competitive hangar. Either way, VOX's approach to the game is very different from that of most clans, who tend to wait and adopt proven tech choices.(As a side note, I think it is obvious that some clans *could* experiment like VOX, but don't because they largely focus on winning. Those also tend to be the clans that stream-snipe Adrian when y'all are running legacy bots to entertain viewers. Those clans are willing to stream snipe in order to obtain an unfair fight. That says a lot about how little they care about a fun match, and how much they care about seeing the "victory" screen.)----That said, I think you're right about the future of Tanks.has emphasized the value of raw stats and tankiness repeatedly over the last year. Pilot skills are percentage-based, so they provide a larger advantage to bots that bring huge stats to the battlefield. The Ares' power is not tied to a deep health pool, but rather to the absurdly strong special ability. But the current king Ares is so firmly entrenched, I don't see him losing his grip on power. At least not anytime soon.





Counter in war robot is very low if everyone had infinity resources they would probably take the take risk and experiment different setup but because investment is heavily expensive nobody want to take that risk so they'll buy what is popular and fight them fire with fire thus making interaction dull and boring.



If the pilot has good basic skill awareness and stack on top with upgrades its nearly impossible to beat this scenario variety is limit in champion league. Seriously tho pix need a new make over in their balance department team its ridiculous lame to the point i just want to leave in the middle of a game. Counter in war robot is very low if everyone had infinity resources they would probably take the take risk and experiment different setup but because investment is heavily expensive nobody want to take that risk so they'll buy what is popular and fight them fire with fire thus making interaction dull and boring.If the pilot has good basic skill awareness and stack on top with upgrades its nearly impossible to beat this scenario variety is limit in champion league. Seriously tho pix need a new make over in their balance department team its ridiculous lame to the point i just want to leave in the middle of a game.

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Member Back to Top Post by descentx on linearblade said: krebby

careyfan



Ares numbers will in fact not fall over time, and this is why:



Ares have almost an exponentially strong effect on one another.



1 ares, annoying,

2 ares very strong

3 ares, potentially invincible with practice

4-6 ares practically invincible



There is NOTHING that trumps “practically invincible”



There are movie style gimmicks that occasionally work.



The current game, as is, has no reliable counter.



Additionally: ares have 8 weapons. This is why ares pilots get top billing on the score card. And this is why top players prefer it. Damage is king. Beacons are second. And the ares is best at both.



The only way this will ever change is if something even more mind numbingly over powered than an ares is released. And I dread this moment.



Becsuse pixonic actually cannot outdo themselves here.



NONE of the prior content can reliably fight an ares that doesn’t want to fight, or major pilot errors etc.



Whatever csn easily deal wifh ares will fully dominate not ares as well.



And in the case of killer x > ares > others > killer x,



Players will still run ares to get the damage. And becsuse killer x would be weak against everything else.



Ares is such a problem that I suspect it will Have to be DRAMATICALLY NERFED, along with lockdown (which is totally being abused by pixonic) and when this happens there will be some serious angst on the servers. Way way worse than specters and shock train



Pixonic might be trying to balance. But it’s not a balancable bot in its current form. In order for it to be balanced, it needs to have exploitable weaknesses.



Not 3 maxed modules and bot weaknesses Ares numbers will in fact not fall over time, and this is why:Ares have almost an exponentially strong effect on one another.1 ares, annoying,2 ares very strong3 ares, potentially invincible with practice4-6 ares practically invincibleThere is NOTHING that trumps “practically invincible”There are movie style gimmicks that occasionally work.The current game, as is, has no reliable counter.Additionally: ares have 8 weapons. This is why ares pilots get top billing on the score card. And this is why top players prefer it. Damage is king. Beacons are second. And the ares is best at both.The only way this will ever change is if something even more mind numbingly over powered than an ares is released. And I dread this moment.Becsuse pixonic actually cannot outdo themselves here.NONE of the prior content can reliably fight an ares that doesn’t want to fight, or major pilot errors etc.Whatever csn easily deal wifh ares will fully dominate not ares as well.And in the case of killer x > ares > others > killer x,Players will still run ares to get the damage. And becsuse killer x would be weak against everything else.Ares is such a problem that I suspect it will Have to be DRAMATICALLY NERFED, along with lockdown (which is totally being abused by pixonic) and when this happens there will be some serious angst on the servers. Way way worse than specters and shock trainPixonic might be trying to balance. But it’s not a balancable bot in its current form. In order for it to be balanced, it needs to have exploitable weaknesses.Not 3 maxed modules and bot weaknesses

you're right pix cannot out do themselves now with their fake persona stage on the live stream. they came this far to built their reputation and image why would they roll back, if they did a direct nerf this would piss off everybody including me making more people leave the game. I think alot of negatives from the past are being swept under the rug to hide their tracks to this day why would they undo that hard work (they probably have special team department do this probably aha). So... their proposal would probably look something like this

Build strong ares = counter ares

Setting all this up making people go unnotice until it to late. you're right pix cannot out do themselves now with their fake persona stage on the live stream. they came this far to built their reputation and image why would they roll back, if they did a direct nerf this would piss off everybody including me making more people leave the game. I think alot of negatives from the past are being swept under the rug to hide their tracks to this day why would they undo that hard work (they probably have special team department do this probably aha). So... their proposal would probably look something like thisBuild strong ares = counter aresSetting all this up making people go unnotice until it to late.

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Member Back to Top Post by linearblade on T34 said: linearblade said: krebby

careyfan



Ares numbers will in fact not fall over time, and this is why:



Ares have almost an exponentially strong effect on one another.



1 ares, annoying,

2 ares very strong

3 ares, potentially invincible with practice

4-6 ares practically invincible



There is NOTHING that trumps âpractically invincibleâ



There are movie style gimmicks that occasionally work.



The current game, as is, has no reliable counter.



Additionally: ares have 8 weapons. This is why ares pilots get top billing on the score card. And this is why top players prefer it. Damage is king. Beacons are second. And the ares is best at both.



The only way this will ever change is if something even more mind numbingly over powered than an ares is released. And I dread this moment.



Becsuse pixonic actually cannot outdo themselves here.



NONE of the prior content can reliably fight an ares that doesnât want to fight, or major pilot errors etc.



Whatever csn easily deal wifh ares will fully dominate not ares as well.



And in the case of killer x > ares > others > killer x,



Players will still run ares to get the damage. And becsuse killer x would be weak against everything else.



Ares is such a problem that I suspect it will Have to be DRAMATICALLY NERFED, along with lockdown (which is totally being abused by pixonic) and when this happens there will be some serious angst on the servers. Way way worse than specters and shock train



Pixonic might be trying to balance. But itâs not a balancable bot in its current form. In order for it to be balanced, it needs to have exploitable weaknesses.



Not 3 maxed modules and bot weaknesses Ares numbers will in fact not fall over time, and this is why:Ares have almost an exponentially strong effect on one another.1 ares, annoying,2 ares very strong3 ares, potentially invincible with practice4-6 ares practically invincibleThere is NOTHING that trumps âpractically invincibleâThere are movie style gimmicks that occasionally work.The current game, as is, has no reliable counter.Additionally: ares have 8 weapons. This is why ares pilots get top billing on the score card. And this is why top players prefer it. Damage is king. Beacons are second. And the ares is best at both.The only way this will ever change is if something even more mind numbingly over powered than an ares is released. And I dread this moment.Becsuse pixonic actually cannot outdo themselves here.NONE of the prior content can reliably fight an ares that doesnât want to fight, or major pilot errors etc.Whatever csn easily deal wifh ares will fully dominate not ares as well.And in the case of killer x > ares > others > killer x,Players will still run ares to get the damage. And becsuse killer x would be weak against everything else.Ares is such a problem that I suspect it will Have to be DRAMATICALLY NERFED, along with lockdown (which is totally being abused by pixonic) and when this happens there will be some serious angst on the servers. Way way worse than specters and shock trainPixonic might be trying to balance. But itâs not a balancable bot in its current form. In order for it to be balanced, it needs to have exploitable weaknesses.Not 3 maxed modules and bot weaknesses

I am starting to think the ares will not be properly nerfed directly. A lot of people who spent RM and resources on the ares and then followed up by adding pilots with multiple skills would be rather pissed off if Pix was to nerf the ares off the battle field. I minor nerfing may happen but the main nerfing will be an indirect one. Say a new bot or a new weapon or a new pilot skill that takes away the advantage of the ares. May even be a module that allows weapons to penetrate all energy shields. Imagine a volley of splash into an ares train where their shields are of no use.





If they went the module route they would need to enable 3 modules for all.



Pix seems adamant about their 「slow」 excuse (even tho pilots are 10x more complicated and anyone can use) If they went the module route they would need to enable 3 modules for all.Pix seems adamant about their 「slow」 excuse (even tho pilots are 10x more complicated and anyone can use)

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Member Back to Top Post by linearblade on descentx said: linearblade said: krebby

careyfan



Ares numbers will in fact not fall over time, and this is why:



Ares have almost an exponentially strong effect on one another.



1 ares, annoying,

2 ares very strong

3 ares, potentially invincible with practice

4-6 ares practically invincible



There is NOTHING that trumps “practically invincible”



There are movie style gimmicks that occasionally work.



The current game, as is, has no reliable counter.



Additionally: ares have 8 weapons. This is why ares pilots get top billing on the score card. And this is why top players prefer it. Damage is king. Beacons are second. And the ares is best at both.



The only way this will ever change is if something even more mind numbingly over powered than an ares is released. And I dread this moment.



Becsuse pixonic actually cannot outdo themselves here.



NONE of the prior content can reliably fight an ares that doesn’t want to fight, or major pilot errors etc.



Whatever csn easily deal wifh ares will fully dominate not ares as well.



And in the case of killer x > ares > others > killer x,



Players will still run ares to get the damage. And becsuse killer x would be weak against everything else.



Ares is such a problem that I suspect it will Have to be DRAMATICALLY NERFED, along with lockdown (which is totally being abused by pixonic) and when this happens there will be some serious angst on the servers. Way way worse than specters and shock train



Pixonic might be trying to balance. But it’s not a balancable bot in its current form. In order for it to be balanced, it needs to have exploitable weaknesses.



Not 3 maxed modules and bot weaknesses Ares numbers will in fact not fall over time, and this is why:Ares have almost an exponentially strong effect on one another.1 ares, annoying,2 ares very strong3 ares, potentially invincible with practice4-6 ares practically invincibleThere is NOTHING that trumps “practically invincible”There are movie style gimmicks that occasionally work.The current game, as is, has no reliable counter.Additionally: ares have 8 weapons. This is why ares pilots get top billing on the score card. And this is why top players prefer it. Damage is king. Beacons are second. And the ares is best at both.The only way this will ever change is if something even more mind numbingly over powered than an ares is released. And I dread this moment.Becsuse pixonic actually cannot outdo themselves here.NONE of the prior content can reliably fight an ares that doesn’t want to fight, or major pilot errors etc.Whatever csn easily deal wifh ares will fully dominate not ares as well.And in the case of killer x > ares > others > killer x,Players will still run ares to get the damage. And becsuse killer x would be weak against everything else.Ares is such a problem that I suspect it will Have to be DRAMATICALLY NERFED, along with lockdown (which is totally being abused by pixonic) and when this happens there will be some serious angst on the servers. Way way worse than specters and shock trainPixonic might be trying to balance. But it’s not a balancable bot in its current form. In order for it to be balanced, it needs to have exploitable weaknesses.Not 3 maxed modules and bot weaknesses

Build strong ares = counter ares

Setting all this up making people go unnotice until it to late. you're right pix cannot out do themselves now with their fake persona stage on the live stream. they came this far to built their reputation and image why would they roll back, if they did a direct nerf this would piss off everybody including me making more people leave the game. I think alot of negatives from the past are being swept under the rug to hide their tracks to this day why would they undo that hard work (they probably have special team department do this probably aha). So... their proposal would probably look something like thisBuild strong ares = counter aresSetting all this up making people go unnotice until it to late.





Yes. They are smarting from the last time. But this time it needs the nerf even more. Therefore I suspect they will just do it.



And the reason is, based on my support tickets, they are totally unwilling to refund anything, and resort to threatening to ban me if I talk about it (yea like that will stop me)



So I suspect they feel they have a captive audience. And therefore will not hesitate bone their players Yes. They are smarting from the last time. But this time it needs the nerf even more. Therefore I suspect they will just do it.And the reason is, based on my support tickets, they are totally unwilling to refund anything, and resort to threatening to ban me if I talk about it (yea like that will stop me)So I suspect they feel they have a captive audience. And therefore will not hesitate bone their players

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Member Back to Top Post by ѻﻭɼﻉ on Just a note about Blitz -



Having anti-control is useful on Blitz for evasion and approaching at speed, but in the kamikaze scenario you mention, the issue at point blank is not so much being locked down as it is the fact you haven’t only entered inside the Ares shield, they are inside your Aegis too. Kamikaze into an Ares Cuddle isn’t going to be as effective unless you’ve got additional Blitz, Mercury, and Invader jumping right into the cluster simultaneously - rooting, suppressing, and curb stomping. The main problem with this is to do with closing the distance without being destroyed. Anti-control and using cover is important, but frankly what I’m observing is the best way to close the distance is to stay in cover and let the cluster itself close in.



Blitz in this cluster situation is going to be more effective from a distance firing at the portions of mechs exposed beyond the shield perimeters. This is where Shredders (stagger fire for continuous fire) are going to be more effective, and we’re obviously talking gradual degradation.



Lastly, another approach for Blitz to penetrate a cluster is to drop in from above, but the reality remains that point blank means you sacrifice your Aegis.

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Member Back to Top Post by linearblade on ѻﻭɼﻉ said:



Having anti-control is useful on Blitz for evasion and approaching at speed, but in the kamikaze scenario you mention, the issue at point blank is not so much being locked down as it is the fact you haven’t only entered inside the Ares shield, they are inside your Aegis too. Kamikaze into an Ares Cuddle isn’t going to be as effective unless you’ve got additional Blitz, Mercury, and Invader jumping right into the cluster simultaneously - rooting, suppressing, and curb stomping. The main problem with this is to do with closing the distance without being destroyed. Anti-control and using cover is important, but frankly what I’m observing is the best way to close the distance is to stay in cover and let the cluster itself close in.



Blitz in this cluster situation is going to be more effective from a distance firing at the portions of mechs exposed beyond the shield perimeters. This is where Shredders (stagger fire for continuous fire) are going to be more effective, and we’re obviously talking gradual degradation.



Lastly, another approach for Blitz to penetrate a cluster is to drop in from above, but the reality remains that point blank means you sacrifice your Aegis. Just a note about Blitz -Having anti-control is useful on Blitz for evasion and approaching at speed, but in the kamikaze scenario you mention, the issue at point blank is not so much being locked down as it is the fact you haven’t only entered inside the Ares shield, they are inside your Aegis too. Kamikaze into an Ares Cuddle isn’t going to be as effective unless you’ve got additional Blitz, Mercury, and Invader jumping right into the cluster simultaneously - rooting, suppressing, and curb stomping. The main problem with this is to do with closing the distance without being destroyed. Anti-control and using cover is important, but frankly what I’m observing is the best way to close the distance is to stay in cover and let the cluster itself close in.Blitz in this cluster situation is going to be more effective from a distance firing at the portions of mechs exposed beyond the shield perimeters. This is where Shredders (stagger fire for continuous fire) are going to be more effective, and we’re obviously talking gradual degradation.Lastly, another approach for Blitz to penetrate a cluster is to drop in from above, but the reality remains that point blank means you sacrifice your Aegis.





So basically, your telling us your still screwed. Because just because you got in the bubble, your blitz nerf power didn’t, do you’ve got 4 slights vs 6 light and 2 medium. Got it So basically, your telling us your still screwed. Because just because you got in the bubble, your blitz nerf power didn’t, do you’ve got 4 slights vs 6 light and 2 medium. Got it

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Member Back to Top Post by Koalabear on Just a quick note about the Blitz as an assassin bot. It's Aegis is very weak and does not regenerate, so, even if you are going up against a lone Ares, don't think you can rely on the shield and your speed boost to get inside of the shield. Heck, even if the shield is down, don't go charging in. Most Ares are running root guns or Lockdown Ammo, and they WILL root you and kill you. If you're hunting an Ares, make sure to keep using all available cover and ONLY strike when the Ares has it's back turned.

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Member Back to Top Post by careyfan on linearblade said: krebby

careyfan



Ares numbers will in fact not fall over time, and this is why:



Ares have almost an exponentially strong effect on one another.



1 ares, annoying,

2 ares very strong

3 ares, potentially invincible with practice

4-6 ares practically invincible



There is NOTHING that trumps “practically invincible”



There are movie style gimmicks that occasionally work.



The current game, as is, has no reliable counter.



Additionally: ares have 8 weapons. This is why ares pilots get top billing on the score card. And this is why top players prefer it. Damage is king. Beacons are second. And the ares is best at both.



The only way this will ever change is if something even more mind numbingly over powered than an ares is released. And I dread this moment.



Becsuse pixonic actually cannot outdo themselves here.



NONE of the prior content can reliably fight an ares that doesn’t want to fight, or major pilot errors etc.



Whatever csn easily deal wifh ares will fully dominate not ares as well.



And in the case of killer x > ares > others > killer x,



Players will still run ares to get the damage. And becsuse killer x would be weak against everything else.



Ares is such a problem that I suspect it will Have to be DRAMATICALLY NERFED, along with lockdown (which is totally being abused by pixonic) and when this happens there will be some serious angst on the servers. Way way worse than specters and shock train



Pixonic might be trying to balance. But it’s not a balancable bot in its current form. In order for it to be balanced, it needs to have exploitable weaknesses.



Not 3 maxed modules and bot weaknesses Ares numbers will in fact not fall over time, and this is why:Ares have almost an exponentially strong effect on one another.1 ares, annoying,2 ares very strong3 ares, potentially invincible with practice4-6 ares practically invincibleThere is NOTHING that trumps “practically invincible”There are movie style gimmicks that occasionally work.The current game, as is, has no reliable counter.Additionally: ares have 8 weapons. This is why ares pilots get top billing on the score card. And this is why top players prefer it. Damage is king. Beacons are second. And the ares is best at both.The only way this will ever change is if something even more mind numbingly over powered than an ares is released. And I dread this moment.Becsuse pixonic actually cannot outdo themselves here.NONE of the prior content can reliably fight an ares that doesn’t want to fight, or major pilot errors etc.Whatever csn easily deal wifh ares will fully dominate not ares as well.And in the case of killer x > ares > others > killer x,Players will still run ares to get the damage. And becsuse killer x would be weak against everything else.Ares is such a problem that I suspect it will Have to be DRAMATICALLY NERFED, along with lockdown (which is totally being abused by pixonic) and when this happens there will be some serious angst on the servers. Way way worse than specters and shock trainPixonic might be trying to balance. But it’s not a balancable bot in its current form. In order for it to be balanced, it needs to have exploitable weaknesses.Not 3 maxed modules and bot weaknesses



You may very well be right...at least in the short term. But with regards to what will happen with the Ares in terms of its popularity, no one can definitively say what is fact. Maybe VOX will continue to be one of the outlier clans that chooses use 'suboptimal' strategy when fighting those clans with fewer Ares in our lineups.



I agree with you, that they augment each other when they are in their cluster...and the more Ares bots, the higher the margin of error. But this is precisely what makes them vulnerable to counters as well.



I, for one, refuse to believe that despite the Ares formidable powers (and they are formidable indeed!), that there are NO viable counters outside of movie gimmicks. Call it stubbornness, I guess. Our 'tech' choices aren't perfect, but they are working.





Hi Linear,You may very well be right...at least in the short term. But with regards to what will happen with the Ares in terms of its popularity, no one can definitively say what is fact. Maybe VOX will continue to be one of the outlier clans that chooses use 'suboptimal' strategy when fighting those clans with fewer Ares in our lineups.I agree with you, that they augment each other when they are in their cluster...and the more Ares bots, the higher the margin of error. But this is precisely what makes them vulnerable to counters as well.I, for one, refuse to believe that despite the Ares formidable powers (and they are formidable indeed!), that there are NO viable counters outside of movie gimmicks. Call it stubbornness, I guess. Our 'tech' choices aren't perfect, but they are working.