IMPORTANT.



Is there anyone in this thread with these gripes that can make it to our studio in Santa Monica no later than NOON TOMORROW, FRIDAY November 4?



I know it's a lot to ask since we all have real lives (yeah, right, this is gaf), but that would be extremely helpful.



If so, please PM me ASAP! Click to expand...

We're looking into some other things that you've mentioned, but we just pulled up Unchated 2 here - it goes in a square too as described. Click to expand...

I or we never denied there was an issue. We wanted to explain the changes that were there to add to and clear up any aspects of the debate. At no point did anything we wrote say "you're wrong, we're right, kthxbai"



The fact that we went so far to detail the weapon system meant we were looking into it. Click to expand...

Either way, we're looking further into the discussion around aiming and what could be behind it all. Click to expand...

IMPORTANT.



Is there anyone in this thread with these gripes that can make it to our studio in Santa Monica no later than NOON TOMORROW, FRIDAY November 4?



I know it's a lot to ask since we all have real lives (yeah, right, this is gaf), but that would be extremely helpful.



If so, please PM me ASAP! Click to expand...

we're operating under the assumption that the issues being reported asbout aiming are not due to hardware configurations (except for that one input lag video - that's a separate matter). Click to expand...

We had two folks in Awesomesauce and Cartridgeblower. Unfortunately, they made it out alive.



We think it was really fruitful. Stay tuned. Click to expand...

What up everyone. Didn't have time to come home and post my thoughts until now. We signed NDAs, but Arne just gave me the go ahead to post some thoughts, so here they are before the hypnotism pills they gave me wore off --



First off, the guys at ND were totally awesome and seemed to be fully genuine in wanting to get a fix together as soon as possible. I sat down and played with a couple tweaked versions of the new controls, and they were definitely more in line with the MP and UC2. They seem to have fixed much of the dead zone problems, and are adjusting the sensitivity so you can go even higher than what 100% is now. They were literally making changes ON THE FLY as we played, and asking us what we thought of them. They would tweak things like sticky radius, sensitivity, etc.



Also, they mentioned motion blur is definitely getting fixed for SP. Very cool. They mentioned more about a patch coming out very soon, but again, Arne has told me not to give anything more specific away.



All in all, I can say that while bringing Gaffers in might be a partial PR move, it didn't feel that way at all. From everything I could gather, they were genuine. I asked if they didn't notice the difference in control themselves, like many gaffers have been wondering, and they said they literally would sit employees down and give them different versions and they would not be able to tell. If the control code was messed up at some point, I don't know, but they are not taking these criticisms lightly at all.



Overall, it was super cool to see how things like this get adjusted and tweaked.



Arne, thanks a ton for being so cool, and thank Justin again if you see him on Monday! Click to expand...





Anyway just repeating how awesome Naughty Dog were about this whole thing. They really are putting a lot of effort to get the aiming issue resolved.



My buddy and I spent majority of our time there chatting with Justin Richmond about the controls. He had us play a level with the old controls, and replay it with the new controls. To be honest, the new controls did fix a lot of issues, but the big issue we agreed on was that the aim assist was too "sticky" and it caused a lot of the weird issues that we're complaining about. I felt that they still need to tune the precise movement while aiming even with the new controls as slightly aiming the analog stick would still cause weird acceleration issues that had you misjudge your shot.



It also is awesome that Naughty Dog knew about the missing motion blur effect before i even said anything and that they're already working on patching it back in. Love me some motion blur specifically the per-object kind



Yeah, the whole time we were there it was surreal. It really was amazing how starstruck my buddy and I were about being inside their studio. I mean this is the house of Crash, Jak, and Drake lol. Sorry for not being able to reply right away guys. Was out and about.Anyway just repeating how awesome Naughty Dog were about this whole thing. They really are putting a lot of effort to get the aiming issue resolved.My buddy and I spent majority of our time there chatting with Justin Richmond about the controls.It also is awesome that Naughty Dog knew aboutbefore i even said anything and that they're already working on patching it back in. Love me some motion blur specifically the per-object kindYeah, the whole time we were there it was surreal. It really was amazing how starstruck my buddy and I were about being inside their studio. I mean this is the house of Crash, Jak, and Drake lol. Click to expand...

And don't worry, we are still hard at work on a full featured patch with lots of changes and fixes to various issues. We hope to have more info on the next patch by the end of this week or the weekend. Thanks! Click to expand...

it's coming very very soon. Click to expand...

Patch notes very soon. It's a very detailed and big patch. We're in final rounds of testing. Click to expand...

“We took some time to investigate that internally because, again, we knew we’d made changes, but in all of our focus testing--probably about three months of straight focus testing--we never got any feedback the aiming was unsatisfactory to those people,” he said. Click to expand...

“We showed them a before and after without telling them which one was changed to see how they liked these alternate settings that our programmer had come up with,” said Meyer. “As part of that process, we iterated on what the feedback was and we were making changes on the fly, and changing different things from what we originally changed to get the right feel for the aiming.” Click to expand...

EDIT 19: On Sunday 11/27, patch 1.02 is up and should contain aiming and other aforementioned fixes. Release notes: http://www.naughtydog.com/site/post/uncharted_3_patch_102_notes/ (Note: At least one guy has accepted. Possibly more -- people that PMed a bit later were turned away, so ND must have whom they need at the moment.)(Feedback from the ND visit is at the bottom of this post.)---I made this thread for a few reasons:- It's a real problem, as pointed out by many many people.- The thread might provide a convenient place for any updates on this problem, for those who want to wait until it's patched (IF it's patched) and don't want to run into game-ruining spoilers in the OT.- It will keep the problem talk away from OT, where other people can just talk about the other aspects of the game, which I'm sure they'll appreciate.To summarize the problem as I understand (and have experienced) it:The aiming (with L1) in the-player campaign is... off. This should be immediately apparent as one receives the first weapon in the game, a silenced pistol. I have no scientific explanation of what EXACTLY is off, but the following seem to be true:- The dead zone seems big, or maybe the initial acceleration is low. Starting an aiming motion seems oddly sluggish.- The game tends to force perfectly-horizontal and perfectly-vertical aiming (getting it to aim diagonally seems difficult). Supposedly Uncharted 2 SP does the same, but it seems much less pronounced; perhaps due to the dead-zone situation above.- The reticule tends to slow down when over an enemy, like some kind of auto-aim. This seems confusing and difficult to compensate for when lining up head shots.- These problems, reportedly, do not occur in MP or coop.- Uncharted 2 SP does not really have these issues, and it plays very smoothly.So far, Naughty Dog's response has been on their official forum, by arne:"We're looking into some other things that you've mentioned, but we just pulled up Unchated 2 here - it goes in a square too as described."In other words, the bias towards horizontal and vertical aiming is present in Uncharted 2, though I feel it's not as pronounced, but they are looking into the general aiming situation.It would be very nice if ND could update us here or elsewhere.EDIT: Many people have reported that setting the aim sensitivity to max makes it more bearable.EDIT 2: Reportedly auto-aim is less pronounced in Hard, however it is still strongly there.EDIT 3: Here is the only comment on this, by ND:That's on 10-31-2011, 1:09pm., this suggests that the "aiming is biased towards left-right and up-down" is probably not the real issue; more the dead zone and auto-aim. Either way, aiming is way sluggish, but ND has not commented on this further yet.EDIT 4: Response from ND, 11-02-2011, 6:40pm, Pacific: http://www.naughtydog.com/site/post/singleplayer_multiplayer_gun_mechanics/ Not sure it sheds much light on the issue. Basically, "it's by design." For now, at least, no patch for you.EDIT 5: Later still in this thread, I asked Arne whether at least the strange auto-aim can be looked into (as the blog post does not address it at all). He said he has brought it up and may have an update later.EDIT 6: Posted very early 11-3-2011, Pacific, a video demonstrating various issues to do with aiming, including Uncharted 2 comparison:EDIT 7: Later that day, Arne has stated they are looking into it, and that ND is *NOT* denying an issue (not confirming either).andEDIT 8: Another video courtesy of GAF: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARYIqfvswDU EDIT 10: Arne says:EDIT 11: Friday afternoon Pacific time Arne said:EDIT 12: GAF feedback #1 by CartridgeBlower:EDIT 13: Feedback #2 by AwesomeSauce:EDIT 14: On 11/7, ND posted: http://www.naughtydog.com/site/post/uncharted_3_patch_101_notes/ . Patch incoming within a day but addresses neither aiming nor motion blur. Do NOT freak out. There will almost certainly be a patch for those in the near future based on the above information. In fact:EDIT 15: On 11/8, ND posted:EDIT 16: On 11/14, ND tweeted about the patch:EDIT 17: On 11/17, ND tweeted again about the patch:EDIT 18: On 11/21 GiantBomb posted an editorial, with some statements from ND, on GAF's alleged (since there is no patch yet) contribution to the fix for this issue.Some interesting bits (emphasis mine):EDIT 19: On Sunday 11/27, patch 1.02 is up and should contain aiming and other aforementioned fixes. Release notes: http://www.naughtydog.com/site/post/uncharted_3_patch_102_notes/