Robyn Williams: Dolphins. Last month we reported that a group in Australia is trying to stop the slaughter of dolphins at Taiji in Japan, made infamous in the film The Cove. Soon the organisation will be launched. In the meantime their CEO, Sarah Lucas, tells me they are trying to keep up with the science.

Sarah Lucas: Well, before all we had to say, that the dolphin hunts were cruel, was really observation. Obviously it looks very cruel. But this was the first independent scientific study. It was conducted by scientists at the University of Bristol and City University in New York. And what they did is they used undercover footage of the killing methods to try and analyse from a veterinary perspective exactly how much dolphins and whales would suffer during this killing process. So they measured exactly, for instance, where the metal rod is inserted into the dolphin, and how long does it take for them to die, and what is actually the medical reasons for their death.

And they came to the conclusion that this killing method would register at the highest levels of gross pain and trauma and distress. They measured the time that it takes for a bottlenose dolphin to die, that came out as seven minutes. So it stood in contradiction to Japanese so-called scientific studies into the killing method which had found that it's almost instant, and it confirmed what a lot of scientists already thought, that it's actually a very cruel death.

Robyn Williams: In the setting up of your organisation, one of your main aims is to find out what the science is about dolphins' brains and what they may be feeling. This is of course always terribly difficult to work out, whatever animal you're studying, what it is actually feeling in terms of pain and distress, because even fish feel pain. So what have you learned so far?

Sarah Lucas: Yes, well, of course it's hard not to think like a human when you are analysing another animal and how it might think. What we can say is that the last few decades of scientific research have told us that dolphins and whales are far more complex than humans had previously assumed that they are. Diana Reiss, who is probably the world's foremost expert on cetacean intelligence, would say that dolphins have very complex personalities, they have complex thoughts, they have very complex friendships with other dolphins and whales, and for instance feel deep grief when bonds with other dolphins are broken. She says (these are her words) that they have an intelligence which she reveres. Certainly I think we know enough to say that they have an intelligence which deserves protection from us.

Robyn Williams: Yes, but they too are predators of course and they hunt and they cause pain themselves. Isn't there a way of putting it that that's nature's way and, okay, creatures get killed, dolphins get killed.

Sarah Lucas: Yes, of course dolphins are predators as well, but I think humans have the capability…we exploit animals on a great scale and we have the capability to do that in a way which minimises the pain that we cause for other animals. I believe, and I think many people probably do, that given we have the power to reduce that suffering, that's what we should do. Of course modern farming practices are built around making sure that animals are made instantly insensitive to pain so that they don't suffer during their deaths, and that's completely opposite to what's happening in Taiji where there is no legislation to minimise or even reduce the pain that is inflicted on these animals.

Robyn Williams: When your organisation is set up after the election, what will it do?

Sarah Lucas: Well, Japan is already under some pressure to stop Taiji internationally, but so far Australia hasn't had a much of a voice on this issue. So through Australia for Dolphins we want to make dolphin hunting an issue of public concern in Australia, hopefully with the result that the Australian government will…like it's done so successfully with Antarctic whaling, will become part of the political process with Japan which will eventually stop these hunts.

So one of our priorities will be to address Broome, which many listeners might not know actually gives open support to the dolphin hunts by being Taiji's sister city. So one of our key priorities is going to be addressing this issue of Broome giving a gold stamp of approval to one of the cruellest practices inflicted on animals anywhere in the world.

Robyn Williams: But isn't that support by the way rather than specifically supporting the dolphin hunt?

Sarah Lucas: Well, it's interesting, we think it's direct support because Taiji is a town which is isolated in the international community, and so for an Australian city to come along and say 'we give you our friendship'…and it's not as if Taiji has many other industries, Taiji is only dolphin hunting. And so to say 'we are your friends, we are going to be your sister city' is to endorse the dolphin hunts. So I think it is really important to the Japanese that an Australian city has a relationship with them, and I think that by doing so the Shire of Broome actually plays a meaningful role in perpetuating the dolphin hunts.

Robyn Williams: Have you asked them and have they replied?

Sarah Lucas: We are in the process now of contacting the Shire of Broome.

Robyn Williams: When do you expect to launch Australia for Dolphins?

Sarah Lucas: We're expecting to launch in October. So we will be launching the Australia for Dolphins website, which is afd.org.au. And along with that we will be launching a public campaign where we have asked a group of Australians to make videos raising awareness of this practice. We are asking people to become members for $12, and we would be really delighted obviously if people did that, that would give us the revenue to really start taking this on.

Robyn Williams: And would you be using any of the revenue or fundraising to support scientific research in this regard?

Sarah Lucas: Yes, we would be really interested to do that. One of the groups that we will be working with is Whale and Dolphin Conservation, and also with Professor Diana Reiss who is, as I said, the world expert in this area. We already know that dolphins are highly intelligent, but we would really like to use our resources to make sure that this message gets through in Japan.

It's a really strange situation in Japan where, for instance, the great apes are revered and highly protected, more so than in many other countries, but for some reason dolphins and whales are categorised as fish and their intelligence really isn't recognised. So I guess what we'd really like to do is take the research that has been done and make sure that it's communicated within Japan.

Robyn Williams: Thank you.

Sarah Lucas: Thanks so much for having me, Robyn.

Robyn Williams: That was Sarah Lucas, and we’ll have more on that when they are launched.