katrin bennhold O.K., so there are the ticket machines. Let’s get some tickets. andrew testa Oh, 11:20. No, two minutes. I don’t know if we’re going to make that one. katrin bennhold Can we buy the tickets on the train? andrew testa Can we buy them on the train? clare toeniskoetter Can we ask someone? katrin bennhold Why don’t we try that? Where — what is the 10:50? Where is the — clare toeniskoetter We’re not going to make it. katrin bennhold Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, let’s not give up. Oh, come on. lynsea garrison Everyone just take a deep breath. andrew testa It says our train’s gone. Should we get a coffee? katrin bennhold [LAUGHTER] Gone from super-stressed to super-chill in, like, the space of 30 seconds.

katrin bennhold

From The New York Times, I’m Katrin Bennhold. This is “The Daily.” Today: Italy. It’s Wednesday, June 12.

clare toeniskoetter I don’t think it matters. [train sounds] katrin bennhold I’m in 5, as well. andrew testa I’m in 5. clare toeniskoetter If us three are in 5, let’s go to 5. katrin bennhold Yeah, let’s go to 5.

katrin bennhold

So we wanted to go to Italy because it’s where these hard-right populists have gone from being just a small, regional party to being part of the national government here. And because of that, Italy is now on the front line, really, of this nationalist resurgence in Europe. And we wanted to understand why. We had heard about this one mayor in Tuscany, a rising star of this far-right party, the League, Susanna Ceccardi. And we decided to track her down. So we finally make it on to this train from Rome to Florence — me, Lynsea, Clare and our photographer, Andrew.

speaker [SPEAKING ITALIAN]

katrin bennhold

And once we settled down and we’ve, like, sort of stored our bags away, we pretty much start talking to people immediately. And one thing that’s on everybody’s mind here —

speaker I don’t know how to say it in English — people from other countries coming into ours. katrin bennhold Migration. speaker Yeah, migration.

katrin bennhold

— migration.

speaker It’s a big problem.

katrin bennhold

So Italy was very much on the front line of this migrant crisis that started building in 2014.

katrin bennhold You’re on the Mediterranean, so you saw it.

katrin bennhold

People arrived on boats, they settled in towns. There were encampments, and they spread across the country.

speaker We live it all day.

katrin bennhold

Half a million migrants came to Italy’s shores in the space of just a few years.

speaker 1 Yes, there are too much of them, too much of them. speaker 2 I’m living in the city center. Sometimes, I go out of home, and I find only them. Only them. speaker 3 [SPEAKING ITALIAN] speaker 4 He is becoming racist. speaker 5 [SPEAKING ITALIAN] speaker 6 She said that all the immigrant people that come here, they don’t work. They don’t do anything, but they have everything. lynsea garrison And that feels unfair? speaker Yes. Yes.

katrin bennhold

So this big influx of migrants actually happened a few years ago by now, but hearing people on the train, it’s like it happened yesterday.

lynsea garrison O.K. katrin bennhold We’re, like, chasing one hour behind this mayor.

katrin bennhold

We get off the train in Tuscany and we rent a car, and we drive towards the hometown of Susanna, Cascina, in Tuscany. We’re supposed to meet her on the outskirts in this cafe. And we get there a few minutes early, and it’s this kind of typical Italian cafe. It’s kind of late afternoon, early evening, people are having their Negronis, you know, Camparis.

[restaurant noises]

katrin bennhold

And then she shows up. And she sort of walks over from her car in a kind of casual, slow way, and smiles —

susanna ceccardi Susanna — Andrea, Susanna. Nice to meet you. katrin bennhold Thank you very much.

katrin bennhold

— and looks quite glamorous in that kind of Italian way, you know. She’s got these sunglasses, these big sunglasses holding back her hair.

susanna ceccardi — so and so. katrin bennhold How many months now? susanna ceccardi Five. katrin bennhold Five.

katrin bennhold

She’s also five months pregnant, and hovering around her the whole time is her boyfriend, who also turns out to be her campaign manager, Andrea. So we decide to find a quiet place with our translator and get talking.

katrin bennhold Do you know a name already, or have you decided, or? susanna ceccardi We are deciding between Marina and Kinsika. katrin bennhold Kinsika? susanna ceccardi [SPEAKING IN ITALIAN] translator Kinsika was a woman who was a hero in the medieval times, and she fought against Arab invasion. And she was actually the person who saved the city of Pisa. katrin bennhold Wow. Just to — I want to talk a little bit about the childhood, and, you know, go back to sort of the beginnings of it all. You grew up in Cascina. Do you remember if politics was part of your upbringing? Did your parents talk about politics at the dinner table? susanna ceccardi [SPEAKING IN ITALIAN]

katrin bennhold

So Cascina, her hometown, and this entire region, Tuscany, actually has a long history of voting on the left. It’s where the Italian Communist Party was founded. Tuscany was called the red belt of Italy. And ever since World War II, it had been firmly planted in the left.

susanna ceccardi [SPEAKING IN ITALIAN]

katrin bennhold

And during this left-wing era, her town makes a name for itself in furniture making. It was kind of a rite of passage for newlywed Italians to trek to Cascina to pick out furniture for their new homes in this great exhibition hall.

susanna ceccardi [SPEAKING IN ITALIAN]

katrin bennhold

But in the 1980s and ‘90s, things got tougher. You’ve got these big multinationals, like Ikea, suddenly competing with these local artisans. And people start struggling, and the industry shrinks. And just when things start to recover a little bit, the financial crisis hits and does the rest. This is when Italy goes into a deep economic crisis. There’s a moment when the European Union sort of steps in and demands austerity. And a sort of technocratic government is put in place in Italy for two years to basically raise taxes, cut spending and appease financial markets. And the effect on middle- and lower-class Italians is especially bad — less money, fewer benefits and high unemployment. And this was a story that was playing out all over Italy. It was a crisis, and one that never actually went away.

susanna ceccardi [SPEAKING IN ITALIAN]

katrin bennhold

And this sort of economic disruption, and that turmoil that unfolds, also begins to shift the politics of the region — but it’s a very gradual shift.

susanna ceccardi [SPEAKING IN ITALIAN]

katrin bennhold

Susanna’s parents are actually outliers in the 1990s when they start voting for the League, this far-right party.

susanna ceccardi [SPEAKING IN ITALIAN]

katrin bennhold

And then Susanna becomes the first person in her family to actually go into politics and become a member of the League party.

susanna ceccardi [SPEAKING IN ITALIAN]

katrin bennhold

By this point, people are kind of growing disillusioned with the left already. And eventually, when Susanna is 29, she decides to run for mayor. This was in 2016, when the migrant boats were still hitting the Italian shores, and when migrants were still arriving in Cascina as well.

katrin bennhold Do you remember, like, seeing it on the news, or did you hear people in your village react to it?

katrin bennhold

Now, Susanna told us that the migrants would usually arrive by night under the cover of dark.

susanna ceccardi [SPEAKING IN ITALIAN]

katrin bennhold

The mayor would bring them in the night, and so the next morning, these residents would wake up to find that they had a whole set of new neighbors, but nobody had warned them. Nobody had prepared them, told them anything about it.

susanna ceccardi [SPEAKING IN ITALIAN]

katrin bennhold

And so during a town assembly, some of the residents in Cascina spoke up against this mayor and voiced their anger at the situation.

susanna ceccardi [SPEAKING IN ITALIAN]

katrin bennhold

They were furious.

susanna ceccardi [SPEAKING IN ITALIAN]

katrin bennhold

But he was very unresponsive, she said. He said —

susanna ceccardi [SPEAKING IN ITALIAN]

katrin bennhold

— if you don’t want me anymore, just vote for her next time.

susanna ceccardi [SPEAKING IN ITALIAN]

katrin bennhold

And then they did.

susanna ceccardi [SPEAKING IN ITALIAN] [LAUGHTER]

katrin bennhold

So this is how Susanna becomes the first far-right mayor in Tuscany to be elected in more than 70 years. And now, she’s this regional powerhouse, this rising star, and she’s even going for a higher office. She’s running for a position in the E.U. parliament. She said the migration issue helped her get elected in 2016, and she’s betting it will help her get elected today. And if it works, it means she’s right.

katrin bennhold So the migration issue, you think, is a very important issue in your campaign, and in Italy in general, still, today? susanna ceccardi Yes, I think so.

katrin bennhold

We’ll be right back. So we wake up the next morning to hit the campaign trail with Susanna.

[italian conversation] katrin bennhold Is it three here? ^[KISSING SOUNDS]^ Oh, it’s two. andrea Three. Ah, no — three, it’s normal. Five!

katrin bennhold

Being German, I’m used to shaking hands. But as soon as we work that out, it’s basically time to go.

andrea We must go to Cortona.

katrin bennhold

Andrea, her partner, points at his watch and kind of ushers us off to the car. We’re barreling down a highway at, like, 100 miles an hour. You know, Susanna and Andrea are in the front. They’re kind of making calls, sort of rivaling each other.

susanna ceccardi Ciao, Nicola. nicola Ciao, Susanna. susanna ceccardi Ciao. [SPEAKING ITALIAN]

katrin bennhold

And I kind of get lost looking out of the window, you know, at this incredible landscape — rolling hills, and ancient villages, and churches, and abbeys. It’s hard not to think of that deep history of this part of Italy, with the Renaissance, the art, the culture, and that very, very proud past. I asked Susanna what’s changed in Tuscany.

susanna ceccardi Now, we have many, many unemployed — many young unemployed in Italy.

katrin bennhold

Youth unemployment in Italy is over 30 percent.

susanna ceccardi So we can’t give some opportunities to other immigrants, because we can give some opportunities to our youth, to our young people.

katrin bennhold

Susanna told me what Italians tell her sometimes, that young Italians have to go abroad to find work opportunities these days, and unemployment is too high, that parents see their children leave the country to find a job. So when they then see migrants coming here, it’s upsetting. And then she spoke about her own daughter as her hand was resting on her stomach.

susanna ceccardi I think that I have to give to my daughter the right to not immigrate, the right to remain in Italy and build a future here.

[music]

andrea Here we are in Cortona.

katrin bennhold

So we finally arrive at our destination, the first campaign stop of the day. Cortona is this hilltop village, sort of very typically, beautifully, slightly disheveled Tuscan village.

katrin bennhold This is so pretty. This street probably looked exactly the same 200 years ago.

katrin bennhold

Lots of small shops, a very sort of sleepy atmosphere.

lynsea garrison It’s quiet, huh?

katrin bennhold

But as soon as we turn a corner to the top of the village —

[italian conversation] speaker Welcome to Cortona. clare toeniskoetter It’s so beautiful, thank you. lynsea garrison What’s that? speaker 1 It’s a warrior. speaker 2 Alberto da Giussano. [italian conversation]

katrin bennhold

It was a scene. And posters of Susanna are everywhere.

katrin bennhold The rising star, there she is — thumbs up, Ceccardi. Let’s find our elusive — lynsea garrison I just saw her. katrin bennhold Oh, there she is. There she is. lynsea garrison Oh, she’s going to give a speech. speaker [SPEAKING IN ITALIAN]

katrin bennhold

So we see Susanna getting up on this small platform in the middle of the town square.

susanna ceccardi [SPEAKING IN ITALIAN]

katrin bennhold

And by now, there’s quite a few people gathered on that square, and everybody seems to be eagerly awaiting what she has to say. And she’s up there —

katrin bennhold She’s talking about the left and how, in just a few decades, it has destroyed so much, so many values.

katrin bennhold

Very quickly, she starts talking about how Europe is not just the European Union. Europe was born in the fifth century, she says, B.C., in Greece with democracy, with the Roman Empire, in the era of communes. She talks about how the European Union actually disavows the values underpinning Europe.

susanna ceccardi [SPEAKING IN ITALIAN] katrin bennhold Vienna was invaded. There was a siege of Vienna. She’s talking about European history and how Europe was besieged by Muslim forces.

katrin bennhold

Our fathers died, they fought to defend these European roots and values.

katrin bennhold And that European ancestors defended Europe against those Muslim invaders.

katrin bennhold

Today, what does Europe want to do? Allow Turkey into Europe, let in people and values that have nothing to do with our roots and values.

susanna ceccardi [SPEAKING IN ITALIAN]

katrin bennhold

At this point, as I’m listening, Susanna has kind of transformed.

susanna ceccardi [SPEAKING IN ITALIAN]

katrin bennhold

I hadn’t heard this kind of rhetoric in an election event like this before.

[applause]

katrin bennhold

And the crowd? They seem to be going for it. As she starts talking about these battles, and as she talks about these invasions, applause is building. And then she sort of culminates in talking about Matteo Salvini.

susanna ceccardi [SPEAKING IN ITALIAN]

katrin bennhold

The man who sort of can save Italy from all of this, and who can possibly save Europe from all of this.

katrin bennhold Europe belongs to the people, it doesn’t belong to bureaucrats in Brussels, she says. Salvini stands up to those bureaucrats.

katrin bennhold

So Matteo Salvini is the leader of the League party, Susanna’s party, and he’s the interior minister of the government, which is kind of like the guy in charge of homeland security. And basically, he’s doing on the national level what Susanna is doing at the local level. She’s actually modeled her campaign style after his — she’s considered to be one of his protégés. And he’s resonating with Italians because he’s saying no to migrants. He’s somebody who has talked about Italy needing a deep clean. This is a man who closes Italy’s ports to migrant boats. It’s somebody who’s not afraid to create a real confrontation between Italians and migrants. Salvini is a true populist. He’s fundamentally opposed to liberal values. And his name and his face are everywhere.

katrin bennhold Oh, there he is. Look, there’s a big picture. There he is. He’s sort of pointing at you, like — it’s almost like that American. lynsea garrison We want you. katrin bennhold Yeah, exactly, and —

katrin bennhold

And everywhere we looked, there was one main message.

katrin bennhold “Prima l’Italia” — “Italy first” — is the caption of this election poster. Italy first? speaker 1 Italy first. speaker 2 Italy first. speaker 3 Italia first. speaker 4 Trump, America. Salvini, Italia. katrin bennhold Is Salvini Italy’s Trump? speaker 1 Yes. speaker 2 Salvini is our capitano. speaker 1 Yes, capitano, it means captain.

katrin bennhold

In fact, Salvini has been so successful with his messaging that in the time since he became interior minister, he’s become incredibly popular — so popular that if enough far-right candidates like Susanna win in these European elections, Salvini’s expected to treat it like a kind of referendum by the people and try to force a new election to make him prime minister. This is not far-fetched. So quite literally, a vote for Susanna is a vote for Matteo Salvini.

susanna ceccardi Ciao. [italian conversation]

katrin bennhold

So after the rally, we said goodbye to all the League members who had been putting on this event. And then we made our way to the next campaign stop.

[italian conversation] clare toeniskoetter Oh, I wish we got to see more of this town. lynsea garrison O.K., I’m going to cut it.

katrin bennhold

We’ll be right back.

[church bells ringing]

katrin bennhold

So we get to the next town — Reggello. It’s a cute little place, not far from Florence, lined with cafes, churches, a tiny cinema. And this town, unlike Pisa, Siena, Massa, and many of the other towns we’ve driven through today, doesn’t have a far-right presence yet. It’s still pretty firmly to the left. But it’s this kind of town that Susanna is hoping to conquer. We’re here to go to a debate with other candidates to the E.U. election. So we walk inside, there’s a mockup of a World War I trench on stage — a kind of prop for, clearly, a play, but tonight, the stage is literally set for war. Susanna gets up on stage, walks across and takes her seat. She’s actually sitting in the middle, in a row with four other candidates. And then all of them make their introductory remarks.

[italian conversation]

katrin bennhold

And then the debate begins. And they’re covering a lot of ground, including immigration. And that’s when Susanna really comes alive.

[applause] susanna ceccardi [SPEAKING IN ITALIAN]

katrin bennhold

She starts off by acknowledging that on the stage she may be isolated, but that in the Italian population, the League is gaining momentum — the Italians are with them.

susanna ceccardi [SPEAKING IN ITALIAN]

katrin bennhold

The people the left has forgotten about, they think like us, she says.

susanna ceccardi [SPEAKING IN ITALIAN]

katrin bennhold

I’m five months pregnant, she said. And when I hear from people in Italy that Italy has a low birth rate, that we’ve substituted our newborns for people who come from the other side of the world, I get shivers up my spine.

susanna ceccardi [SPEAKING IN ITALIAN] [applause]

katrin bennhold

And then she really gets going.

susanna ceccardi [SPEAKING IN ITALIAN]

katrin bennhold

So as she’s talking, you could see how uneasy everybody on stage was, but also how defensive. The woman on her right is about to blow up. She’s this tall academic who sort of keeps looking up at the ceiling, and sort of seems to barely be able to stop herself from rolling her eyes. And on her left is the Social Democratic candidate, another woman wearing this very stiff smile on her face —

susanna ceccardi [SPEAKING IN ITALIAN]

katrin bennhold

— only to then lay into her when her time comes to respond.

speaker [SPEAKING IN ITALIAN]

katrin bennhold

So one after the next —

speaker [SPEAKING IN ITALIAN]

katrin bennhold

— as these candidates take their turns, they go after Susanna by going after Salvini and the League.

speaker [SPEAKING IN ITALIAN]

katrin bennhold

These candidates were supposed to discuss issues like climate change, the economy, immigration, but they now all seem to have one single focus.

speaker [SPEAKING IN ITALIAN] susanna ceccardi [SPEAKING IN ITALIAN] [applause]

katrin bennhold

So after Susanna’s final answer, she gets up to leave. Her supporters kiss her as she goes, and then we scurry after her.

susanna ceccardi [SPEAKING IN ITALIAN] translator Everybody was saying the same thing. andrea [SPEAKING IN ITALIAN] translator Everybody’s against Salvini. Everybody’s against the Lega. They don’t have their own ideas. katrin bennhold The Lega was the reference point of the entire debate — it’s true. Every single other candidate referred to the Lega, and sort of tried to attack and combat the Lega. lynsea garrison I couldn’t tell if that was because I didn’t understand anything, but the only words I could hear was Lega, Salvini, Lega, Salvini. katrin bennhold Totally. lynsea garrison Immigrazione. katrin bennhold Yes. This is what this election is about. This is what this election is about.

katrin bennhold

The audience seemed to be divided. There were people walking out when Susanna made particularly controversial statements, and then there were others that applauded. But in some ways, the clues were actually in the reactions of the other people on stage, the other candidates. They didn’t seem to have a narrative that was strong enough to stand on its own. They kept referring back to Salvini and to the League, and that in itself was a victory for Susanna.

katrin bennhold We’ll see you there? Do you know which address we’re going to? andrea Not yet.

katrin bennhold

So we go back to the car to the next and last campaign stop of the day. And this next stop is supposed to be a kind of disco dinner type thing for young League supporters. And I’m looking forward to it, because, you know, all day we’ve been canvassing middle-aged people, older people. And here was a chance now to really check in with the young people. Frustration with youth unemployment has been one of the themes of this journey. And then there was this other story that really stuck with me that I’d heard earlier in the day on one of the stops. We’d met this father of six children who votes on the center-right, so not a League supporter. He said he was watching the television news the other night with his daughter, who’s 16, and there was this report about a migrant boat that had sunk and that 100 migrants were presumed dead. And then his daughter had given the thumbs up and said, good, that’s 100 fewer people coming to Italy. And when she saw the shock in her dad’s face, she said, Dad, don’t look so shocked. Everyone thinks this. And he said, I fear that the young people today really hate the migrants. That story really made me want to talk to more young people. So we get there. It’s a small parking lot right by the beach.

lynsea garrison Oh, it smells like the sea. katrin bennhold Oh, it really does.

katrin bennhold

There is a small white building — restaurant — that you can sort of book for events. It’s a disco, a nightclub of sorts. We walk in.

^[music]

^:

katrin bennhold

It looked kind of like a wedding reception — there’s a bunch of tables set for dinner, there were balloons.

katrin bennhold Wow, so we’ve just arrived at this event. It’s a big room, and it’s got “Salvini premier” — first, Salvini first — plastered all over these posters. There’s a lot of young people here. lynsea garrison Not what I was expecting, actually. katrin bennhold No, exactly —

katrin bennhold

It’s not exactly Italy’s unemployed youth. People look educated and like young professionals.

susanna ceccardi [SPEAKING IN ITALIAN] Ciao. speaker [SPEAKING IN ITALIAN]

katrin bennhold

And as we enter, they immediately sort of crowd around Susanna and sort of start talking to her. And so we walk around the room and we just kind of ask people, what are you doing here? Why have you come tonight? What’s on your mind?

speaker We don’t believe in this Europe, we want —

katrin bennhold

There was a lot of talk and slogans of, you know, we want a real Europe.

speaker We want a Europe of nations.

katrin bennhold

Meaningful Europe.

speaker We want a Europe where each culture of each nation creates a great culture of the great European Union, where if you speak proudly about your culture, you’re not called a racist or nationalist, but you are called a European who are proud of their roots. katrin bennhold Are you proud to be European? speaker Yes, but not in the European Union.

katrin bennhold

They were talking about their family history.

speaker 1 The site of my family, it’s in the Tuscany heritage since the 12th century. speaker 2 It’s noble. speaker 1 Kind of.

katrin bennhold

And a sense that that identity was at risk. And they really wanted to hold on to that identity.

katrin bennhold But you know, your relatives, your ancestors wanted to emigrate to find a better life. They went to the United States, or to England, or — it’s like the Nigerians today. They want a better life. It’s the same. speaker 1 O.K., but my relatives don’t sell drugs. O.K.? speaker 2 They bring pizza, come on. Please. No? I’m wrong?

katrin bennhold

They seemed to be embracing this anti-migrant message, but there was also something else going on. You know, here were young people who never in their political life had felt in control of things — that, you know, they had come of age in a time of austerity. That’s all they’d known. But they were now excited by a political option that promised to change everything, and that promised to retake control, and that promised to end any kind of outside meddling from Europe, from a Europe that wants to impose these liberal values — a political option that basically promised to restore Italian pride.

speaker Now, Europe, it’s empty.

katrin bennhold

And when you look at it this way, this didn’t really seem to be about migrants all that much anymore. The numbers today are minimal anyway. It’s no longer considered a crisis. This felt like a different crisis — a crisis about identity, and control, and loss. And an easy way of thinking about that is to think about an Italy without migrants.

katrin bennhold So Susanna, you’re all done for the day? You’re done?

katrin bennhold

Susanna decides to go home. It’s been a long day. So we follow her out, and we take her to the car.

katrin bennhold Tell me — do you think you’re going to win? susanna ceccardi I think so. I hope so. katrin bennhold And if you do win, does that mean Salvini has won? susanna ceccardi Yeah, I think so, because I’m very close to Salvini — so, yes. katrin bennhold People know what they get. susanna ceccardi Yeah. Ciao, grazie. andrea Ciao.

katrin bennhold

So we wave goodbye to Susanna and watch her drive off back towards her hometown of Cascina.

[music]

katrin bennhold