On June 18, embattled Hong Kong Chief Executive Carrie Lam called another press conference in the wake of massive demonstrations over the much maligned “extradition bill.” Lam formally apologized for the controversy but still refused to resign or withdraw the bill from legislative consideration, as protesters had demanded.

People in Hong Kong were outraged by the bill because it would have allowed Hong Kong to extradite people living in or passing through Hong Kong to China, exposing them to China’s arbitrary judicial system and in effect eliminating the firewall between the former British territory and communist authorities in Beijing.

During the turmoil, CommonWealth Magazine turned to Anson Chan to find out how she viewed the situation and how she felt about Hong Kong’s future.

Now 79, Chan became the first ethnic Chinese chief secretary of Hong Kong in 1993 under Governor Chris Patten, and kept the post after the former British colony was handed over to China in 1997. Western media has called her “Hong Kong’s Iron Lady” and “the Conscience of Hong Kong.”

When she stepped down as chief secretary of the “Special Administrative Region” in 2001, the New York Times wrote: “Her sudden departure deprives Hong Kong of its most forceful advocate inside the government for civil liberties and the rule of law.”

She has personally witnessed the changes to Hong Kong under British colonialism, the 1997 handover, and now Chinese rule, and in recent years has devoted herself to reforming the democratic political system and fighting for universal suffrage.

With governance in Hong Kong stalemated, Chan had some pointed advice for Beijing during an interview with CommonWealth, saying that it needed to fundamentally change its thinking. She also advised it to be more confident and allow Hong Kong to maintain a high degree of autonomy and its citizens to elect their own chief executive.

“They seem to think that if people elect somebody of their own liking, somehow he or she will be an enemy of mainland China. That’s ridiculous,” she said.

The following are excerpts from the interview conducted on June 17, (in which Chan spoke in English). It came after a million-person march against the extradition bill on June 9, a huge rally on June 12 to block deliberation of the controversial bill in Hong Kong’s Legislative Council (LegCo), and a 2-million person march on June 16 to try to get Lam to step down and withdraw the bill rather than suspend its consideration in LegCo.

She began by reacting to Lam’s apology on June 18:

Photo by Ming-Tang Huang/CW

I think as far as the government and the chief executive is concerned, it is too little and too late. Following last Sunday’s march when a million people took to the streets, the chief executive should have come out straight away and said she’s listened to the voices of the people and said she’s prepared not to proceed with the second reading in our legislature. Instead, at 11 that evening, she issued a statement reiterating her determination to push ahead. I think that angered a lot of people.

And then at her press conference the day before yesterday, quite frankly she missed so many opportunities to restore some credibility.

First of all, she refused to apologize. Secondly, whilst refusing to apologize, I think a lot of people were very surprised that she felt it necessary to apologize to the pro-Beijing supporters in LegCo. She thanked them for their support, and she apologized because she knew it would affect voter sentiment in the upcoming elections. We have elections coming up for district councils and next year elections coming up for LegCo.

I think in the circumstances, this was quite the wrong thing to do.

Then at the same time, people are very angry that she sided with the police, she defended the police and she agreed with the police that this [the protests on June 12 that were put down in part by police violence against demonstrators] was a riot.

Photo by Ming-Tang Huang/CW

Now why are people so concerned at the government calling this a riot? Because if you call it a riot, all sorts of charges again the protestors, particularly those who have already been arrested or who might be arrested, all sorts of charges can be laid under that definition. That’s why yesterday there was the demand that you retract this description and you discipline the police. Most people regard that that they used unnecessary force that day.

On Carrie Lam’s Future

I think she will find it very difficult to govern Hong Kong. That’s why I would urge her to take prompt action and not to have every single concession dragged out of her.

I think there are two things she can do. She can immediately offer to withdraw [the extradition bill], and I think if she wants to regain some of her credibility in the eyes of the Hong Kong people and stave off calls for her to resign, she should offer some movement on universal suffrage. She should offer to be prepared to reopen the dialogue on how we move forward on one-man, one vote. She must know, this is one thing that Hong Kong people want.

An Opportunity for Hong Kong

She should realize this is largely of her own making. Nobody forced her to touch this very, very sore subject. Why did she choose to do so? And of all times, to do it this year; I mean this year you’re commemorating the 30th anniversary of Tiananmen. You’re in the midst of this raging dispute between Trump and [China.] Why pick now?

[But] now Carrie and Beijing have managed to push Hong Kong back on the international map, which from our point of view is a very good thing.

For a long time since the handover, we’ve completely disappeared from the radar of Western countries until very recently….Why are all the countries taking an interest in what’s going on in Hong Kong? Not just for the sake of the 7.3 million people, but because they suddenly now realize that Hong Kong, if you preserve Hong Kong’s values, remains the outpost for raising professional standards and an outpost for liberal values.

Hong Kong is a barometer for what’s happening in China and how leaders behave. So…that is why the Western press, the Western countries are now sitting up and taking notice of Hong Kong.

I think we are all re-energized by what has happened in this last week. It’s been a very, very inspirational, momentous week. Because what you are seeing, I think last Sunday and yesterday’s march is definitely a record turnout. There’s never been so many people on the streets at any point in Hong Kong’s history.

But if you ask me, both these marches are a very moving testimony to HK people’s enduring quest for liberty, freedom and democracy.

The Message to Taiwan

Hong Kong’s experience has demonstrated to people in Taiwan they don’t want one country, two systems, and from Beijing’s point of view, that is not the message they want to give people in Taiwan. In fact, very recently, Mr. Xi Jinping was saying how good one country, two systems is for Taiwan. If I were a Taiwanese, I would also say this is not for us, seeing what’s happened to Hong Kong. (Read: I’m from China, and I’m Against the China Extradition Bill)

Photo by Ming-Tang Huang/CW

So far we’ve been very disappointed she [Lam] has not helped us defend one country, two systems. She has not proven to be an effective bridge between Hong Kong people and Beijing. She needs to change that.

I know it’s very difficult for anybody occupying that post [of chief executive] because you’re having to balance two very different cultures, but you have to do that if you are going to earn the respect and support of the Hong Kong people. You can do so, I think, without upsetting Beijing because we all know that with Beijing there are one or two issues you cannot touch.

[There can be] no talk of independence, no talk of down with the Communist Party, but everything else within reason, I think they’re prepared to tolerate, even if they may not be entirely comfortable with it.

And who can do that explanation – the chief executive. Why is she not on our side? Why is she not helping us to put across our concerns?

I think we should assure Beijing the only way Hong Kong can maintain its long-term stability and prosperity is for us to continue to hang on to our strengths. But you are gradually chipping away at all these strengths, so how can we play a role in the Belt and Road and in the Greater Bay Area [two major Chinese development projects] if you take away all our strengths?

Beijing Does Not Understand Hong Kong

The so-called public education proposals [a plan to change Hong Kong’s education system that people in Hong Kong saw as a brainwashing attempt by Beijing], when they attempted to rewrite our school curriculum, were totally counterproductive. That is another reflection of how they don’t understand what makes Hong Kong tick. In Hong Kong, we are used to being taught how to think for ourselves and not to be led by the nose.

That’s because I think that fundamentally they don’t understand where Hong Kong’s strengths lie. They will say that in the 156 years of British rule, Hong Kong people never enjoyed one man, one vote, and yet Hong Kong has prospered. So if the British can do it, why can’t we.

Well what they forget is one very fundamental point. Britain is a parliamentary democracy. That is the bottom line beyond which they will not move. China is a communist one-party state. They have no bottom line, because in the eyes of the rulers, control is everything. Everything else is subordinate to the Communist Party and in order to maintain absolute control in their eyes, the end justifies the means. That’s the difference, but they will not acknowledge that.

We had all the freedoms that you associate with a democracy minus one man, one vote. Now you’re trying to eat into all the other rights and freedoms that we have apart from denying us one man, one vote.

That’s what we are afraid of. You know in Hong Kong there’s a new phrase that everybody dislikes. It’s called “mainlandization.” We don’t want Hong Kong turned into another Chinese city. We don’t want the worst aspects of Chinese culture on the mainland creeping into Hong Kong.

Ming-Tang Huang/CW

Beijing Needs Fundamental Change of Mind

I don’t understand why they don’t have the confidence in their own leadership to leave us alone, to get on with implementing one country, two systems.

We will demonstrate that they have nothing to fear. On the contrary, by leaving us alone and Hong Kong people [governing] Hong Kong, we will deliver what you want in terms of long-term stability and prosperity. But they have to accept us.

You want the hearts and minds of Hong Kong people, particularly our young people, to return to the motherland, then you have to leave us alone to get on with implementing one country, two systems and a high degree of autonomy.

But if you keep interfering and every interference results in something negative, then nobody is going to have faith in Beijing. They have to realize that Hong Kong people will not bend to their will. They will fight to the last, and [Beijing] should know that.

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I think there has to be a fundamental change of mind and a fundamental shift in their strategy for dealing with Hong Kong. They have to have the confidence to restore a high degree of autonomy, and they have to allow us a say in who we elect to be our chief executive. They seem to think that if people elect somebody of their own liking somehow he or she will be an enemy of mainland China. That’s ridiculous.

Anybody in their right mind, given the economic integration with mainland, will know you cannot be at loggerheads with China all the time, so somehow you have to work out a modus operandi where you can on the one hand calm fears in Beijing and yet be seen in the eyes of the Hong Kong people to be their chief executive and helping us defend our rights and freedoms.

Translated by Luke Sabatier

Edited by Sharon Tseng