Freeze967 Profile Joined August 2011 United States 230 Posts #2 Thanks for posting this! Hopefully you'll continue to add stuff. I'd love a section for Z <3

Hider Profile Blog Joined May 2010 Denmark 8554 Posts Last Edited: 2014-01-23 02:07:43 #3 On January 23 2014 10:54 Freeze967 wrote:

Thanks for posting this! Hopefully you'll continue to add stuff. I'd love a section for Z <3



I hope it will come. Just haven't really been playing as much Z as P and T. Others are ofc welcome to contribute to their builds.

At this point, I think its unfair to demand that any builds are extremely well-refined and works in all kinds of situations.

So I will put all builds/strategies that I believe could either help new players or improve our gameunderstanding in the OP. I hope it will come. Just haven't really been playing as much Z as P and T. Others are ofc welcome to contribute to their builds.At this point, I think its unfair to demand that any builds are extremely well-refined and works in all kinds of situations.So I will put all builds/strategies that I believe could either help new players or improve our gameunderstanding in the OP. Innovation was a better player in 2013 than Byun in 2016.

Beef Noodles Profile Blog Joined March 2010 United States 936 Posts #4 Shouldn't the sentinel be added to the new units?

saddaromma Profile Joined April 2013 899 Posts Last Edited: 2014-01-23 03:23:19 #5 On January 23 2014 11:52 Beef Noodles wrote:

Shouldn't the sentinel be added to the new units?

Great guide, I was waiting for this. As for bio vs protoss, it works quite well, especially vs those who like to mass dragoons.



EDIT: oh fuck. I was going to comment on key changes such as queen, OC, photon cannon,viper and warpgate. Or rather ask about them too? Great guide, I was waiting for this. As for bio vs protoss, it works quite well, especially vs those who like to mass dragoons.EDIT: oh fuck. I was going to comment on key changes such as queen, OC, photon cannon,viper and warpgate. Or rather ask about them too?

Zergrusher Profile Joined November 2011 United States 562 Posts #6 On January 23 2014 12:16 saddaromma wrote:

Show nested quote +

On January 23 2014 11:52 Beef Noodles wrote:

Shouldn't the sentinel be added to the new units?

Great guide, I was waiting for this. As for bio vs protoss, it works quite well, especially vs those who like to mass dragoons. Great guide, I was waiting for this. As for bio vs protoss, it works quite well, especially vs those who like to mass dragoons.





That didn't answer that guys question at all.



That didn't answer that guys question at all.

Hider Profile Blog Joined May 2010 Denmark 8554 Posts Last Edited: 2014-01-23 04:27:44 #7 On January 23 2014 11:52 Beef Noodles wrote:

Shouldn't the sentinel be added to the new units?



Yes, I forgot some. OP isn't fully complete. I also hope to upload some reps evenutally.



EDIT: It is updated now. Yes, I forgot some. OP isn't fully complete. I also hope to upload some reps evenutally.EDIT: It is updated now. Innovation was a better player in 2013 than Byun in 2016.

Doominator10 Profile Joined August 2012 United States 415 Posts Last Edited: 2014-01-23 06:18:47 #8 Doom's 12-12-12 ZvT Opening and Transitions



Objective

+ Show Spoiler + Secure a third expansion with as few units as possible as the terran *should* be pushing trying to find weaknesses to exploit at this time. If the terran is not pushing, then use the lurkers to contain the terran and make his life as miserable as possible.



Rough Build (Assume building drones for most of the time)

+ Show Spoiler + *Assumes Terran is fast expanding

10 OverLord

11/10 Drone (This will rally to the other abses and scout)

***as soon as you build the next drone after your ovy finishes, send a drone to your natural. It should have just enough for a hatch after a few seconds

12 Hatchery

11-12-13 Pool (I prefer 12. It seems to give just the right amount of minerals, and i have had games where the extra second of time for the lurkers to build = life or death)

12 gas (fully saturate asap)



@100% Complete; Build queen at natural (IT BETTER BE AT THE NATURAL) // Build 2 sets of Zerglings

****Inject, build creep tumor going to middle of map or towards opponent, then send it to your main (or whereever you are building your hydra den)

****Use as many zerglings as you want to hunt for scvs / proxy shenanigans around map, but be sure to have AT LEAST 1 ling at terran's front. THIS IS LIFE OR DEATH HERE. You need to know when he moves out. If it's too early, rush spines.

2-3 is often enough for early bio pushes.

@100Gas: Build Lair (Possible Variant here)

(Constant drones to natural. The 11 drones in your main are enough)

(Constant injecting)

@50% Lair Complete; Start hydralisk den

@100%Lair Complete; Build second gas (full saturate) // Start Lurker Den

@30%-50% Lurker Complete; Build 2-3 overlords, save larva

@5 Larva, build 5 hydralisks



(You will have the minerals to take a third around this time, use your best judgement to determine if it is truly safe to do so. I personally REALLY do not like getting the extra queen here, I find it unnecessary and distracting from microing the 5 units that will keep you alive for ~5+ mins)



@100%LurkerDen Complete; morph 5 Lurkers. You should have JUST enough gas for 5-6 lurkers at this point and enough mins for a hatchery.



@150 Gas; ViperNest + Abduct OR save for spire.



PathWays

+ Show Spoiler + In Sbow, I find mutas to be really fun to mass and just kill everything with... but against any good terran science vessels exist, making mutas nearly extinct. However, if he IS going SKTerran style (No tanks), you NEED the scourge to kill the science vessels to protect your lurkers and to keep terran from getting out of control. If you choose to be greedy and get Viper Nest over Spire first and terran has science vessels, it's almost a BO loss. Abduct won't do anything since you have nothing that shoots up (your hydras don't have speed yet). If Terran DOES get tanks however, vipers + abduct can do A LOT of wonders vs tanks for much cheaper than mutas. Vs the 1-3 tanks a terran will have at this early point, simply abduct the tanks into your lurkers while trying not to get your viper killed. Also, the viper nest allows you to get your hive faster, which you need for adrenal, nydus(map dependant) and defilers (DO NOT !@#$ING FORGET ADRENAL GLANDS, THIS IS NOT SC2!)



As general benchmarks:

+ Show Spoiler + 5-6 Lurkerrs by the time Terran reaches you

Viper Nest or Spire soon after

Ling speed soemwhere in here Idk

Third base w/ ~11+ on minerals & 3 on gas

Double Evos w/ 1/1 Starting at aroudn the same time as your Hive

Hive @ ~11-14mins



Horribly Wrong:

+ Show Spoiler + If you scout anything other than a fast CC (1 rax or cc first), the first 100gas turns into speed and you need to scout and try to assess the situation. Vs light harass such as reaver expo or vulture expo, lings and a spine should be enough. Proceed as planned, but slightly delayed. Vs heavy pressure,... you may need hydras, a second queen, a lot of spines, or spores (overseers). Play accordingly.



FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT IS HOLY DO NOT LOSE YOUR FIRST 5 LURKERS! They are the ONLY ground defense you have that can zone a bio ball short of a wall of spines (which offer no map presence. At least lurkers can threaten).



I've had many a game where i mismanaged my timings slightly, and my lurkers were finished... right after the bio ball was already inside my base -___-. Timings are super critical the first several minutes. (At least in Diamond+)



It is possible that your third will be delayed / denied. DON'T PANIC (yet much,..) Just place a Hatch in your main, drone up a bit, get ling speed, and fight for map control with lings and lurkers. You NEED a third b4 you can fully go into scourge , hive tech. If terran denies your third EVEN AFTER you get to hive tech, (you probably skipped upgrades to make it happen), you are all in on defilers. Make something happen.



Replays:

+ Show Spoiler +

http://drop.sc/371650 This is the only 1 for now, its late. G2g2 bed. (Note, I Played this guy 3 times. The first 2 times i went viper nest vs his skterran and got rekt. The third time I LEARN!)



Glhf: LIVE FOR THE SWARM!

I need to get on EU so i can play w/ Hider and find more holes in the build to fix Also my ZvP is terribad. (Assume building drones for most of the time)Glhf: LIVE FOR THE SWARM!I need to get on EU so i can play w/ Hider and find more holes in the build to fixAlso my ZvP is terribad. Your DOOM has arrived,,,, and is handing out cookies

Stabley Profile Joined July 2011 United States 90 Posts Last Edited: 2014-01-23 06:26:12 #9

LastDance Profile Blog Joined October 2010 New Zealand 492 Posts #10 Thanks for the thread. I really hope Starbow takes off. it's an awesome game. What SC2 should have been.

Nebuchad Profile Blog Joined December 2012 Switzerland 10154 Posts #11 Shoutout to the people who play in starbow cups and share their replays. This is the most interesting way to have the game go somewhere, let other people see what you're doing and why, and how it works. So yeah, you're awesome. Also most people did it in ESL cups so most people are awesome, thanks "It is capitalism that is incentivizing me to lazily explain this to you while at work because I am not rewarded for generating additional value."

Xiphias Profile Blog Joined May 2010 Norway 2219 Posts #12 About ZvT:



I would really like to see people try to make zergling / baneling / viper work. The ensnare ability would be the key here. It would work a bit like bling/infestor from SC2, since ensnare works a bit like fungal. This would probably only work vs bio though. Maybe opening 2 hatch muta and then transition into bling/viper instead of the less mobile lurker composition.



I have yet to find an effective build order for this, but hopefully someone better than me can develop a build based off of this idea. aka KanBan85. Working on Starbow.

Big J Profile Joined March 2011 Austria 16272 Posts Last Edited: 2014-01-24 07:39:00 #13



11 Overlord

11 spawning pool and scout

(--> if against CC first allin/pressure???; not sure if it works, may need to scout a little earlier!)

13 natural hatchery

12 queen+2zerglings (upon spawning pool completion)

17 extractor

--> use queen for inject + spawn a creep tumor in your main

--> use your pair of zerglings to get rid of pesky scouts

--> usually your opponent should only see that you went pool first, built a queen and are now starting a gas (which you could cancel)

16 overlord

drones...

100%natural start a queen

lair @100gas and use nurturing swarm on it as often as possible

build a spine at the front

take your second gas



version 1 (if you see Terran teching?):

@100% lair start a spire (in your main where you spread creep before, keep it hidden!), nurture it, spend the rest of your energy on injects

~60% completetion stop building drones (make sure you have enough overlords)

@100% spire start 4-6mutalisks

~8:00 you are at the opponents base with mutalisks

--> transition how its needed/possible

http://drop.sc/371765



version 2 (if you see Terran going for 2+barracks?):

start a hydralisk den (in your main where you spread creep before, keep it hidden!)

@100% lair morph into lurker den, nurture it, build ~4-5 hydralisks, start zergling speed

~8:30 hit the opponent with 4-5lurker/+as many speedlings as you can get

http://drop.sc/371764

http://drop.sc/371766



Edit: replays; though as Piy points out, I had some lag issues, which may or may not have influenced the games against him



gimme some input! ok, a little ZvT rush I have been working around with. Would like some comments!11 Overlord11 spawning pool and scout(--> if against CC first allin/pressure???; not sure if it works, may need to scout a little earlier!)13 natural hatchery12 queen+2zerglings (upon spawning pool completion)17 extractor--> use queen for inject + spawn a creep tumor in your main--> use your pair of zerglings to get rid of pesky scouts--> usually your opponent should only see that you went pool first, built a queen and are now starting a gas (which you could cancel)16 overlorddrones...100%natural start a queenlair @100gas and use nurturing swarm on it as often as possiblebuild a spine at the fronttake your second gasversion 1 (if you see Terran teching?):@100% lair start a spire (in your main where you spread creep before, keep it hidden!), nurture it, spend the rest of your energy on injects~60% completetion stop building drones (make sure you have enough overlords)@100% spire start 4-6mutalisks~8:00 you are at the opponents base with mutalisks--> transition how its needed/possibleversion 2 (if you see Terran going for 2+barracks?):start a hydralisk den (in your main where you spread creep before, keep it hidden!)@100% lair morph into lurker den, nurture it, build ~4-5 hydralisks, start zergling speed~8:30 hit the opponent with 4-5lurker/+as many speedlings as you can getEdit: replays; though as Piy points out, I had some lag issues, which may or may not have influenced the games against himgimme some input!

Ovni Profile Joined March 2013 88 Posts Last Edited: 2014-01-23 22:08:02 #14



12 hatch

11 pool

15 overlord

18 gas

start queen + 4 lings when pool finishes

constant drones, make a 2nd queen when you have the money

lair with first 100 gas

plan your queen energy so you can continuously cast nurturing swarm on your lair

2nd gas when you have 150 gas

spire, constant nurturing swarm

send a drone out to take third

save larva around 32 supply



make sure to scout with an overseer if you don't know what your opponent's doing, vs a stargate/starport build adding some scourge is key. on most maps you can wait until he moves out with an army before making spines. you can follow up with anything but since you have a high gas/low mineral income and limited larva lurkers are usually the best choice.



replay vs goody: Muta rush build for ZvT and ZvP12 hatch11 pool15 overlord18 gasstart queen + 4 lings when pool finishesconstant drones, make a 2nd queen when you have the moneylair with first 100 gasplan your queen energy so you can continuously cast nurturing swarm on your lair2nd gas when you have 150 gasspire, constant nurturing swarmsend a drone out to take thirdsave larva around 32 supplymake sure to scout with an overseer if you don't know what your opponent's doing, vs a stargate/starport build adding some scourge is key. on most maps you can wait until he moves out with an army before making spines. you can follow up with anything but since you have a high gas/low mineral income and limited larva lurkers are usually the best choice.replay vs goody: http://ggtracker.com/matches/4645368

Hider Profile Blog Joined May 2010 Denmark 8554 Posts Last Edited: 2014-01-24 00:21:21 #15 ). I am the only one who is allowed to (temporarily) not have replays for guides. Btw I add all of your guides if you attach replays (mainly thinking of you jay). I am the only one who is allowed to (temporarily) not have replays for guides. Innovation was a better player in 2013 than Byun in 2016.

ganil Profile Joined August 2009 253 Posts Last Edited: 2014-01-24 00:46:57 #16



11 rax (start producing marines)

15 cc

gaz at ~3.45 min (in game timer)

tech lab on rax

ebay => +1 atk asap

2nd rax (reactor asap)



===

1st variation



3rd rax (reactor asap)

when 3rd rax is started, remove 2 scv from gaz

at around 35 supply, get both oc (your raxs/reactors are building and can't spend your minerals in marines).

when you start your 2nd reactor, put scv back on gaz

marines range when stim is done

chrono marines/medic production



push with 4 medics, 2 or 4 firebats and a crapton of marines.

benchmark: 8.30 min, 70 supply & move out

start factory & +1 bio armor

get 2nd gaz & so on.



(short game)

http://drop.sc/371742



2 rax fast tech variant:

==========

pretty much the same opening but

2 rax (obv)

scvs always mine gaz

factory starts between 6.45 (very fast tech, will cut marines) and 7.15





(much longer game)

http://drop.sc/371743 TvZ +1 bio rush11 rax (start producing marines)15 ccgaz at ~3.45 min (in game timer)tech lab on raxebay => +1 atk asap2nd rax (reactor asap)===1st variation3rd rax (reactor asap)when 3rd rax is started, remove 2 scv from gazat around 35 supply, get both oc (your raxs/reactors are building and can't spend your minerals in marines).when you start your 2nd reactor, put scv back on gazmarines range when stim is donechrono marines/medic productionpush with 4 medics, 2 or 4 firebats and a crapton of marines.benchmark: 8.30 min, 70 supply & move outstart factory & +1 bio armorget 2nd gaz & so on.(short game)2 rax fast tech variant:==========pretty much the same opening but2 rax (obv)scvs always mine gazfactory starts between 6.45 (very fast tech, will cut marines) and 7.15(much longer game)

Season Profile Blog Joined May 2010 United States 296 Posts #17



I don't really have much of a build order or guide for this as I've not used it enough (or at a high level) or perfected any aspect of my play. It is simply a replay showing Bio can be viable vs Mech



As is/was with Bio vs Mech in SC2, you really need to limit the amount of siege tanks that your opponent has, which is why I do a few pushes in the early stages of the game.



Then, later, the reason why Ghosts are so effective is because of their Shock ability which unsieges sieged siege tanks.



For anyone curious the major battles where the use of Ghosts are very affective come at 12:15, 18:30, and 19:55. The game ends shortly after at the 20:30 mark with us just talking for a bit.



Here is the replay:



Enjoy! Here is a game where I use Bio (with ghosts) to combat Mech in TvT.I don't really have much of a build order or guide for this as I've not used it enough (or at a high level) or perfected any aspect of my play. It is simply a replay showing Bio can be viable vs MechAs is/was with Bio vs Mech in SC2, you really need to limit the amount of siege tanks that your opponent has, which is why I do a few pushes in the early stages of the game.Then, later, the reason why Ghosts are so effective is because of their Shock ability which unsieges sieged siege tanks.For anyone curious the major battles where the use of Ghosts are very affective come at 12:15, 18:30, and 19:55. The game ends shortly after at the 20:30 mark with us just talking for a bit.Here is the replay: http://drop.sc/371744 Enjoy!

Hider Profile Blog Joined May 2010 Denmark 8554 Posts Last Edited: 2014-01-24 16:29:48 #18 Hey thanks for the posts guys. Everything should be added to OP now. Btw if anyone had some type of cool ZvP build, I would love to try it. Currently, I am struggling a bit in that matchup. Innovation was a better player in 2013 than Byun in 2016.

Xiphias Profile Blog Joined May 2010 Norway 2219 Posts #19



I see a lot of players trying to answer a 1-gate expo or a FFE with a fast third. This can be hard to defend and may not be right for Starbow. You need a bit more resources on infrastructure because of queens and the economy is not 100% BW. Having more workers per base here is not as bad as in BW although it is quite similar. I think 2 base hydra pressure, with a third behind it or the same philosophy for muta/scourge is better to start with fro new players than the auto-third once you scout a fast nexus.



I saw Idra try to make a fast third work vs TT1 in ZvP. He got destroyed a lot of games, but I did not watch all. Maybe he figured it out. Point of reference: I think in general for ZvP:I see a lot of players trying to answer a 1-gate expo or a FFE with a fast third. This can be hard to defend and may not be right for Starbow. You need a bit more resources on infrastructure because of queens and the economy is not 100% BW. Having more workers per base here is not as bad as in BW although it is quite similar. I think 2 base hydra pressure, with a third behind it or the same philosophy for muta/scourge is better to start with fro new players than the auto-third once you scout a fast nexus.I saw Idra try to make a fast third work vs TT1 in ZvP. He got destroyed a lot of games, but I did not watch all. Maybe he figured it out. Point of reference: http://www.twitch.tv/idrajit/b/497596650 aka KanBan85. Working on Starbow.

Clbull Profile Blog Joined February 2011 United Kingdom 1392 Posts #20 I wonder how long it will be until we see a full-fledged Starbow forum.

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