In The Conversation, David Brooks and Gail Collins talk between columns every Wednesday.

The Associated Press

Gail Collins: David, I apologize in advance for giving you a toughie when you’re on book deadline. But there’s a question that’s been going around a lot these days that I’d like to hear your take on. Who leads the Republican Party? I’ll either take the next presidential-nominee or just the visionary/architect/wiseperson who is going to be the power behind the scenes over the next couple of years.

I am not part of the suicidally depressed left that is sure Sarah Palin is going to be the next presidential nominee.

The Democrats are in an interesting and not unusual position right now. Even though they’re horrified by the Tea Party folks, they rub their hands with glee when any of them appears to be in striking distance of a serious nomination. Great news! A sure seat for the Republicans is now in play because they’ve got a crazy person on their ticket. I see their point, but I still feel more comfortable in a country where the elections are between two sane people.

So I have a little bit of a stake in your finding us somebody semi-reasonable to root for.

I am not part of the suicidally depressed left that is sure Sarah Palin is going to be the next presidential nominee.

I think she’s too smart to even try — she is very smart, in an uncurious, intellectually lazy way. Sort of what George Bush would be like if he’d been sent to Wasilla High instead of prep school. In fact, let’s give Sarah some credit here. If George W. had her background, he’d be serving fast food and cursing the day he got fired from the overnight shift at the canning factory.

Anyhow, Palin is having a great time right now. I don’t think she’s ever going to want to trade it in for a hard, unremunerative, grinding political competition. If she gets the chance, her canny side will tell her to punt.

David Brooks: This is no toughie. This is a subject on which I have pent up opinions, so it’s a pleasure to lift my head up from early childhood attachment patterns (the part of my book I’m working on today) to blow off a little steam.

The Palin phenomenon is a media psychodrama and nothing more.

First, let’s all stop paying attention to Sarah Palin for a little while. I understand why liberals want to talk about her. She allows them to feel intellectually superior to their opponents. And members of the conservative counterculture want to talk about her simply because she drives liberals insane. But she is a half-term former governor with a TV show. She is not going to be the leader of any party and doesn’t seem to be inclined in that direction.

The Sarah Palin phenomenon is a media psychodrama and nothing more. It gives people on each side an excuse to vent about personality traits they despise, but it has nothing to do with government.

She is in 2010 what Jerry Falwell was from the mid-1990s until his death — a conservative cartoon inflated by media. Evangelicals used to say that Falwell had three main constituency groups — ABC, CBS and NBC.

Gail Collins: Hey, I’m happy to see that I’ve brought a little sunshine to the basement cell where I presume you’re chained until the book is finished.

I think we are in accord about Sarah. What about the rest of the would-be-presidential pack? Mitt Romney has all the intellectual equipment for the job. Except that everybody, including the members of his party, thinks he’s a smooth panderer who would trade his political principles for a pack of Chiclets. (I am not mentioning what he did to his dog today. Even Seamus needs a break.)

If Palin isn’t going to be the leader/nominee, you would think that the leader/nominee would have to be somebody who could stand on the stage with her and not completely fade into the background. I know you’re a fan of Gov. Tim Pawlenty, but I watched him at the rally with Palin and Representative Michele Bachmann, and he looked as if he was one of the ushers who’d accidentally wandered onstage.

David Brooks: I guess if I were to name some future and current leaders of the G.O.P., it would be people who wield a lot of power in Republican circles. I’d list, say, Jon Kyl, Lamar Alexander, Jeff Sessions and Lindsey Graham in the Senate. In the states, clearly Gov. Mitch Daniels is the one most likely to become the 2012 presidential nominee. I like him because he’s about 5 feet 7 inches or so. He’s low to the ground. His fan club should be called the Mitchets. I like a presidential aspirant who is roughly my height. Plus he happens to be a very successful governor — a pragmatic manager with an impeccable record of fiscal responsibility.

If I were to name some future and current leaders of the G.O.P., it would be people who wield a lot of power in Republican circles.

Last week, everybody was talking about Palin and Newt Gingrich, the two television personalities, but real live Republicans are mounting serious challenges for office in real states. Representative Mark Kirk is running for Senate in Illinois, one of the smartest members of Congress today. Rob Portman, a former director of the Office of Management and Budget, is mounting a serious challenge for Senate in Ohio. There are few people as decent and well informed as he is. In California, business leaders Meg Whitman and Carly Fiorina are running pretty well in the polls. But nobody seems to cover them much because the Sarah Palin circus is perpetually in town.

Meanwhile, Gov. Chris Christie in New Jersey has embarked on a brave effort to actually balance a budget.

Gail Collins: You’re digging pretty deep. I guess Governor Christie is being brave, but he’s doing it in the most irritating manner possible. And I have to make a confession — when you mentioned Mitch Daniels, I had to remind myself which state he was governing. (Knew it was someplace in the middle. Indiana. Indiana.) And while I am totally on your side on the height issue, isn’t it true that the tallest candidate always gets elected president?

Let’s face it, all the Republicans you really like are people who could never get the presidential nomination. Except John McCain, and then when he actually won, he turned into somebody else. You’re too good for them, David.

David Brooks: I guess my bottom line is this. According to Gallup, the Democratic Party now has its lowest favorability rating ever, or at least since they started formally asking the question 20 or so years ago. Fifty-eight percent of Americans want to repeal the health care bill. It is more unpopular now than when it passed. Republicans lead on the generic Congressional ballot, which is unusual even in years when they do well.

In a few months, people will pay attention to the real political leaders … the ones running and winning office. We can all stop paying attention to the reality TV icons.