mobile4ever



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Hero MemberActivity: 546Merit: 500 A new idea for bitcoin markets February 20, 2013, 04:21:14 PM

Last edit: March 07, 2013, 10:49:37 PM by mobile4ever #1 I believe bitcoin markets should match bitcoin; distributed, and not under the control of centralized groups.

I believe bitcoin markets should not charge fees.

I believe bitcoin markets should not have intrusive ads or ask intrusive questions.

I believe there is a group of people out there who has been waiting for this to happen.





Bank robbers rob banks because they know that is where the money is. Those who

rob current bitcoin markets have the same targets because that is where the bitcoins are.

I believe this needs to change so that thieves no longer have a target online.





This idea of making bitcoin markets decentralized makes bitcoin even more secure.





Some people with some web programming skills would be nice to pull this off. I can do

some of them myself since I have been a webmaster off and on for ten plus years.

I could eventually make it all myself in time. But again, it is against what I believe. Having "one

person in charge" of things is not the goal. Complete decentralization of bitcoin markets is the goal.

If you believe like I do lets work on making it happen.





Send me a PM...



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Spekulatius



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LegendaryActivity: 1022Merit: 1000 Re: A new idea for bitcoin markets February 20, 2013, 06:02:50 PM #10



Have you heard of Bitwasp?:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=109223.0 A decentralized GLBSE or MtGox, many times people discussed this hear. It has become some kind of Holy Grail for the developing crowd but no one yet had a conclusive idea how to solve the complex batch of problems that goes with it AFAIK.Have you heard of Bitwasp?:

mobile4ever



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Hero MemberActivity: 546Merit: 500 Re: A new idea for bitcoin markets February 20, 2013, 06:10:49 PM #11 Quote from: Spekulatius on February 20, 2013, 06:02:50 PM



Have you heard of Bitwasp?:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=109223.0

A decentralized GLBSE or MtGox, many times people discussed this hear. It has become some kind of Holy Grail for the developing crowd but no one yet had a conclusive idea how to solve the complex batch of problems that goes with it AFAIK.Have you heard of Bitwasp?:



Holy Grail? This is easy! It will take no amount of coding knowledge to use once it is running. Its for everyone.





I looked at the link. (





No, this is based on HTML and a few PHP or javascript plugins. I think the Silkroad is only available using TOR, is that right? There is nothing illegal or nothing to make governments feel "threatened" with my setup. Holy Grail? This is easy! It will take no amount of coding knowledge to use once it is running. Its for everyone.I looked at the link. ( https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=109223.0 No, this is based on HTML and a few PHP or javascript plugins. I think the Silkroad is only available using TOR, is that right? There is nothing illegal or nothing to make governments feel "threatened" with my setup.

mobile4ever



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Hero MemberActivity: 546Merit: 500 Re: A new idea for bitcoin markets February 20, 2013, 08:07:07 PM #13 Quote from: markm on February 20, 2013, 06:27:00 PM Great then, set it up, if people like it they will use it, if it is free open source they will be able to decentralise it which seems to be what you want them to do, yes?



So put it on github or sourceforge or the like, give us the link, we'll download the code and give it a whirl...



-MarkM-







The plugins are for websites and I expect them to be developed in PHP. It is open source in that HTML is open source. It not based on a downloadable piece of software. It is more similar to a plugin for Wordpress.





Plus, the "money part" is based on replication and becomes an asset over time. As usual, the early adopters will make the most, exactly like bitcoin. This can be replicated easily over all the world.



The plugins are for websites and I expect them to be developed in PHP. It is open source in that HTML is open source. It not based on a downloadable piece of software. It is more similar to a plugin for Wordpress.Plus, the "money part" is based on replication and becomes an asset over time. As usual, the early adopters will make the most, exactly like bitcoin. This can be replicated easily over all the world.

Sukrim



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LegendaryActivity: 2562Merit: 1002 Re: A new idea for bitcoin markets February 20, 2013, 08:32:26 PM #14 Quote from: Spekulatius on February 20, 2013, 06:02:50 PM A decentralized GLBSE or MtGox, many times people discussed this hear. It has become some kind of Holy Grail for the developing crowd but no one yet had a conclusive idea how to solve the complex batch of problems that goes with it AFAIK. Most issues are regulatory I guess - if it is possible to register an official e-money issuer that is allowed to receive e.g. EUR and hand out Bitcoin-style (blockchain, scripts etc.) "Eurocoins", there is already a suggestion by Mike Hearn on how to shape transactions in Bitcoin and Eurocoin that could be used as decentralized exchange. The centralized element would then be only the Eurocoin issuer (in any exchange scenario you'd have someone you need to trust, because fiat transactions are not enforcable by you without a lawyer...) but NOT the Eurocoin holder whom you are exchanging to. E-money issuers are not allowed to do fractional reserve, so there's low risk on that front.



Usually the issue is on fiat side and how to enforce anything there - either by involving a 3rd party (e.g. MtGox), a WoT (BTC-OTC) or a combination of both (Ripple). To have a decentralized exchange you don't just need to "revolutionize money", you need some new/unique/special ways on how to deal with fiat money as well!

Most issues are regulatory I guess - if it is possible to register an official e-money issuer that is allowed to receive e.g. EUR and hand out Bitcoin-style (blockchain, scripts etc.) "Eurocoins", there is already a suggestion by Mike Hearn on how to shape transactions in Bitcoin and Eurocoin that could be used as decentralized exchange. The centralized element would then be only the Eurocoin issuer (in any exchange scenario you'd have someone you need to trust, because fiat transactions are not enforcable by you without a lawyer...) but NOT the Eurocoin holder whom you are exchanging to. E-money issuers are not allowed to do fractional reserve, so there's low risk on that front.Usually the issue is on fiat side and how to enforce anything there - either by involving a 3rd party (e.g. MtGox), a WoT (BTC-OTC) or a combination of both (Ripple). To have a decentralized exchange you don't just need to "revolutionize money", you need some new/unique/special ways on how to deal with fiat money as well! https://www.coinlend.org <-- automated lending at various exchanges.

https://www.bitfinex.com <-- Trade BTC for other currencies and vice versa.

Mail me at Bitmessage: BM-BbiHiVv5qh858ULsyRDtpRrG9WjXN3xf

mobile4ever



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Hero MemberActivity: 546Merit: 500 Re: A new idea for bitcoin markets February 20, 2013, 09:00:07 PM #15 Quote from: Sukrim on February 20, 2013, 08:32:26 PM Quote from: Spekulatius on February 20, 2013, 06:02:50 PM A decentralized GLBSE or MtGox, many times people discussed this hear. It has become some kind of Holy Grail for the developing crowd but no one yet had a conclusive idea how to solve the complex batch of problems that goes with it AFAIK.





Quote Most issues are regulatory I guess -



if it is possible to register an official e-money issuer that is allowed to receive e.g. EUR and hand out Bitcoin-style (blockchain, scripts etc.) "Eurocoins", there is already a suggestion by Mike Hearn on how to shape transactions in Bitcoin and Eurocoin that could be used as decentralized exchange. The centralized element would then be only the Eurocoin issuer (in any exchange scenario you'd have someone you need to trust, because fiat transactions are not enforcable by you without a lawyer...) but NOT the Eurocoin holder whom you are exchanging to. E-money issuers are not allowed to do fractional reserve, so there's low risk on that front.



Usually the issue is on fiat side and how to enforce anything there - either by involving a 3rd party (e.g. MtGox), a WoT (BTC-OTC) or a combination of both (Ripple). To have a decentralized exchange you don't just need to "revolutionize money", you need some new/unique/special ways on how to deal with fiat money as well!



if it is possible to register an official e-money issuer that is allowed to receive e.g. EUR and hand out Bitcoin-style (blockchain, scripts etc.) "Eurocoins", there is already a suggestion by Mike Hearn on how to shape transactions in Bitcoin and Eurocoin that could be used as decentralized exchange. The centralized element would then be only the Eurocoin issuer (in any exchange scenario you'd have someone you need to trust, because fiat transactions are not enforcable by you without a lawyer...) but NOT the Eurocoin holder whom you are exchanging to. E-money issuers are not allowed to do fractional reserve, so there's low risk on that front.Usually the issue is on fiat side and how to enforce anything there - either by involving a 3rd party (e.g. MtGox), a WoT (BTC-OTC) or a combination of both (Ripple). To have a decentralized exchange you don't just need to "revolutionize money", you need some new/unique/special ways on how to deal with fiat money as well!









All is done as personally as possible, the third party will be the hub itself, which has no money inside. The exchange rates will always be changing, but an API from somewhere similar to xe.com would do good for everyone to keep up to date.



Quote Most issues are regulatory I guess -





The ßitcoin hub will not actually be doing any transactions. Plus, the system will be localized to their own areas of the world. Doesnt that take care of a lot of regulations? (No transactions over borders.)



All is done as personally as possible, the third party will be the hub itself, which has no money inside. The exchange rates will always be changing, but anfrom somewhere similar to xe.com would do good for everyone to keep up to date.The ßitcoinwill not actually be doing any transactions. Plus, the system will be localized to their own areas of the world. Doesnt that take care of a lot of regulations? (No transactions over borders.)

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LegendaryActivity: 2562Merit: 1002 Re: A new idea for bitcoin markets February 20, 2013, 09:19:15 PM #16 How will you enforce a fiat transaction? Say I sell 1 BTC for 30 USD, suddenly the MtGox price crashes and BTC is at 10 USD/BTC - how do you ensure I still get the 30 USD somebody has committed to?



To me the small hints you gave seem like a "mobile"(?!) version of bitmarket.eu or similar, where you can put up offers that might be taken or not - but every time the BTC prices fall there are lots of problems with people not doing the fiat transaction. On the other hand, if you don't even hold BTC in escrow, as long as the rate goes up it makes sense for sellers not to send the BTC they promised but rather to re-sell them at higher prices.



Regulatory issues come into place once you start to create something that is 1:1 pegged to a fiat currency and can be redeemed in fiat again. This is the main difference to gift certificates (e.g. iTunes gift cards). Yes, of course sometimes it might be possible to get money back on a gift card too, but in general Apple does NOT guarantee you that you can just show up with 5000 of iTunes gift cards and demand 10 500 bills. With e-money on the other hand, you could do that. https://www.coinlend.org <-- automated lending at various exchanges.

https://www.bitfinex.com <-- Trade BTC for other currencies and vice versa.

Mail me at Bitmessage: BM-BbiHiVv5qh858ULsyRDtpRrG9WjXN3xf

mobile4ever



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Hero MemberActivity: 546Merit: 500 Re: A new idea for bitcoin markets February 20, 2013, 09:37:20 PM #17 Quote from: Sukrim on February 20, 2013, 09:19:15 PM How will you enforce a fiat transaction?





The deals are personal. I will not be personally (if the question was directed to me) enforcing anything. It is a personal transaction between the owner of the web site and the person interested in interchanging something, whether it be currency or goods and services. Since it is a local deal, the interstate commerce thing as well as the international laws are moot.





Quote from: Sukrim on February 20, 2013, 09:19:15 PM Say I sell 1 BTC for 30 USD, suddenly the MtGox price crashes and BTC is at 10 USD/BTC - how do you ensure I still get the 30 USD somebody has committed to?



Again its a personal deal, like in the offline world. It is not going to be connected to outside influences.





Quote from: Sukrim on February 20, 2013, 09:19:15 PM To me the small hints you gave seem like a "mobile"(?!) version of bitmarket.eu or similar, where you can put up offers that might be taken or not - but every time the BTC prices fall there are lots of problems with people not doing the fiat transaction. On the other hand, if you don't even hold BTC in escrow, as long as the rate goes up it makes sense for sellers not to send the BTC they promised but rather to re-sell them at higher prices.





If there is going to be a terms page on the hub site, it will say that people take responsibility for their own interchanges.





Quote from: Sukrim on February 20, 2013, 09:19:15 PM Regulatory issues come into place once you start to create something that is 1:1 pegged to a fiat currency and can be redeemed in fiat again. This is the main difference to gift certificates (e.g. iTunes gift cards). Yes, of course sometimes it might be possible to get money back on a gift card too, but in general Apple does NOT guarantee you that you can just show up with 5000 of iTunes gift cards and demand 10 500 bills. With e-money on the other hand, you could do that.





Nothing is pegged to anything, as all interactions are done "person to person". Its total freedom . It does not involve gift cards, just regular digital data running through the internet. HTML, PHP and perhaps Javascript which are all "open" technologies, are the powering influence.





The deals are personal. I will not be personally (if the question was directed to me) enforcing anything. It is a personal transaction between the owner of the web site and the person interested in interchanging something, whether it be currency or goods and services. Since it is a local deal, the interstate commerce thing as well as the international laws are moot.Again its a personal deal, like in the offline world. It is not going to be connected to outside influences.If there is going to be a terms page on the hub site, it will say that people take responsibility for their own interchanges.Nothing is pegged to anything, as all interactions are done "person to person".. It does not involve gift cards, just regular digital data running through the internet. HTML, PHP and perhaps Javascript which are all "open" technologies, are the powering influence.