Earlier this week, Lens published a provocative and pessimistic interview about the state of photojournalism with Donald R. Winslow, the former editor of the NPPA magazine Press Photographer. Later that day, Leslye Davis, a young video journalist and photographer for The New York Times came into the Lens office with a differing, more optimistic point of view. Her conversation with James Estrin has been edited for clarity and brevity.

Q.

What brought you into the Lens office a few minutes ago?

A.

I got an email from a Western Kentucky University photojournalism student. She wrote: “I just read this article from The NY Times. It’s about the unstable career of photojournalism. After reading it my fears resurfaced of not feeling confident in the career I’m investing a lot of time and money into, especially if it means being able to barely provide my daily needs with the pay. What is your opinion on the future of photojournalism? Did you have the same fear when you were a student?”

Q.

So what are you going to tell her?

A.

I’m going to tell her she has a bright future ahead of her … that there are more opportunities than ever before, especially for women, especially for minorities. She is both.

Some of the points in the article were right, but the overall message about the uncertain future of photojournalism was wrong and it spoke more to what photojournalism used to be than of what it’s becoming.

Q.

What is so exciting about her future?

A.

Newspapers and journalism in general are excited about visuals. If you look at The New York Times 2020 report, the first point is that the report needs to be more visual. The gear necessary to shoot well and the platforms on which to distribute the content you’re creating are more accessible by the day. At bare minimum, we’re all carrying hi-res recording and viewing devices around in our pockets.

Interview The Uncertain Future of Photojournalism Donald R. Winslow, managing editor at Amarillo Globe-News in Texas, and James Estrin, co-editor of Lens, spoke about the state of photojournalism.

Q.

Now we can be the authors and tell our stories. That was my issue as a newspaper photographer until at least 2004: I didn’t get to be the storyteller. Even if it was my idea, I was illustrating someone else’s words. As we got audio, and video, and it became accepted that a photographer could write, then I could be the author.

A.

Exactly. We have voices. We can dig up the story, weave the narrative and make it beautiful.

Q.

I remember you telling me that when you went to Western Kentucky as a student you thought you were the worst photographer in the class.

A.

I was terrible. Some other students were inherently talented when it came to composing a well-framed photo or understanding light. It was only through sheer force of will that I got any better. I really had to put in the hours to understand and learn.

But the reason I was drawn to the field wasn’t because I wanted to be the best photographer in the world — I do want to be good because light and composition and moments are what move people in an image — but I don’t think those elements are more important than the story itself. And I was always drawn to the stories.

There are so many great examples of people who have crossed that threshold and been successful. They are making beautiful images, but they’ll also make video, make podcasts, write, whatever it takes to get the message across.

Q.

Like who?

A.

To name a few: Maisie Crow, an incredibly talented still photographer who has been working on a documentary about the only remaining abortion clinic in Mississippi for years now. Marcus Yam, who apparently just won Newspaper Photographer of the Year in POYi — he was also awarded a World Press Multimedia Award and an Emmy in 2011 for a short doc that was a combination of stills, audio and video. And for that he was working on a team. That’s important. That very independent approach that we’re taught in photojournalism school can be the best (and only) way in some situations. But I mostly find that working alone is to the detriment of the project.

Also look at Liz Baylen, Malin Fezehai, Tim Hussin, Erin Brethauer, Zana Briski, Chad Stevens, Bayeté Ross Smith … I could make you a list that’s pages long.

Q.

What have photographers lost and what have we gained during this period of change in the media?

A.

The fact of the matter is 20 years ago our field was largely inaccessible to minorities, women and foreigners. Shooting high-quality video was an expensive, niche market. Finding inspiration in our field required a trip to the library, a newspaper subscription, and frankly, special admission to the (mostly) boys club.

Now when you open your phone, you have access to recording tools, online connections, and a constant stream of inspiration and information that would have been unimaginable a few generations ago.

Do people have to make compromises? Absolutely. Does it mean you’re selling out if you have to learn to use a tripod or how to record audio without peaking? No way. It’s just a skill, like your camera is just a tool. Our mission should be to connect people and tell their stories and you’re in a better position to do that now than ever before.

If there’s something I worry about losing, it’s a commitment from some news outlets to ensure that the images they publish are coming from reliable sources. Also, it’s true that the inundation of visuals that we all come across daily makes us prone to desensitization. But I don’t foresee that changing, so why waste time lamenting it? The caliber of work required to capture and maintain someone’s attention is at a higher standard, but that just means the stakes have been raised.

What we’ve gained is personal insight into communities from insiders. In the past people might not have been connected enough to tell their own stories. Now they can.

The Internet makes sharing and receiving stories all the easier. Some people see it as a detriment that we’re not sending journalists all over the world, but to me, that’s a positive sign about the opportunities that have been made available to journalists within their own communities. Locals are connected to their community, they know what they’re doing there, and they speak the language.

Q.

So you are going to get more and different voices?

A.

More different voices and it’s just financially smarter. It would be ridiculous for newspapers to regularly send a photographer across the world, hire a fixer to help translate for them, pay all their expenses. And this goes for video too. It’s a much smarter strategy to employ people who are closer to the places they work.

Also, when it comes to understanding deep-rooted issues like conflict, poverty, inequality, we often have people who’ve never personally experienced any of that strife documenting this stuff from a hundred feet away. This field tends to weed out the poor students because of their need for stability and that’s so unfortunate. It’s valuable to promote the people who understand the struggles they’re documenting.

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Q.

There are old ways in photography that have died. And it’s very hard to make a living.

A.

In some sense, you’re choosing to be a journalist and/or an artist. And it’s true that those are not necessarily well-paid fields. If you feel drawn to telling stories, in my eyes it’s a worthy trade.

That said, I’m a single person who’s not trying to raise a family. I do find the rates that some freelancers have to work for very low and especially for my friends who are committed to working exclusively in journalism and not taking advertising jobs for ethical reasons.

I came of age after the so-called golden age of photojournalism. I have a question: What, to you, is the difference between now and then?

Q.

There are fewer editorial assignments, there are far fewer — mostly poor paying — newspaper jobs. It was never an easy field. And documentarians never made money — they’re probably better off now. But, I think in many ways it’s a golden era for photographers now. There used to be a few dozen gatekeepers, editors or curators who decided whether you succeeded or not. Today you can bypass the gatekeepers and publish directly to your own audience. There were a few hundred people, mostly white men, who could make a good living internationally by parachuting into other countries. It wasn’t a very diverse bunch.

A.

Yeah, all I can say is let that die.

When I was in photojournalism school I had an identity crisis because almost every photographer I admired or we talked about in class was a white man with a head of white hair and a great big beard. Occasionally there was a Carolyn Cole or Barbara Davidson but typically women we discussed covered conflicts. It seemed the only way to carve out a path for yourself, as a woman in this field, was to go out into the war zones as if to say, ‘I can do anything a man can do.’ But you should be able to be a woman in photojournalism and tell stories from your unique perspective. You should be published, and you should also be able to do that if you’re black and you live in sub-Saharan Africa. Or if you’re Indian, or if you’re Japanese— your unique perspective is valuable, and it’s to the benefit of us all that it be shared.

Q.

When I was your age I walked door to door with my portfolio and I was lucky if maybe the secretary would take it, you know, because I didn’t have the connections. And if this small group of people didn’t say, “yes, you can come in,” then you couldn’t come in.

A.

This is why I love the Internet, Jim. The door’s wide open. Lots of people are rushing through, though, so you better be good.

Q.

How old are you now?

A.

Twenty-six.

Q.

I’ve known you for five years.

A.

I know. I’ve been here since I was 21. I’m a product of this newspaper. When I was accepted for the New York Times internship, I was thrilled but I did not expect to get hired here full time. I started here as an intern on the multimedia team which we no longer have. I think “multimedia” is a culture that’s seeped into The New York Times visually across the board. But when I started, there were only a few of us that did photos and videos. And then I was hired into photo. After a year I was moved to video.

Q.

You can write, you can photograph, you can do video, You can do VR. It’s a little hard though, in truth, to do many things at the same time.

A.

Right, I know what you mean. It’s very hard. This job is supposed to be hard though. The thing I always consider is that I never want the gear or the shooting to get in the way of connecting with that person and thinking through the story. And that’s why it’s good to work on teams. If I had my way I would work with a cinematographer all the time.

It’s hard for small newspapers that have photographers go out and shoot and edit a video story and do stills in one day. That’s just too much. And you’re going to get mediocre product across the board.

We’re a newspaper with more resources than most people have. And we get more time on stories than most journalists. I realize we are lucky here.

Q.

What do you think are the effects of photography becoming so widespread?

A.

Before pens and paper were accessible people were carving their ideas into stone tablets. I bet when pen and paper came along the writers were skulking around grumpy like, “now everybody thinks they’re a writer.”

Well, everybody is a writer. And everybody is a photographer. And there should be no ill will on that matter. If there’s a story that’s happening in the middle of nowhere North Dakota and there’s nobody there to cover it except for John Doe with his iPhone, then thank God for John Doe with his iPhone. In terms of being able to share information and stories, we’re in a great position right now.

Q.

It’s the democratization of photography.

A.

I do believe all these changes will continue to promote people who traditionally have not been empowered. And I hope that editors will hire with intentionality.

The best advice I can give to young visual journalists is that things are always going to be changing. Change with them. People are always going to get discouraged. Encourage them. Maybe one day they’ll do the same for you. There are always going to be stories to tell. Maybe right now more than ever before.

Follow @leslyedavis, @jamesestrin and @nytimesphoto on Twitter. Leslye Davis is also on Instagram. You can also find Lens on Facebook and Instagram.