EDIT #2

Wii U

3DS

Wii U

EDIT #3

3DS

Wii U

This is, of course, excluding the other DLC possibility I made.

EDIT #4

EDIT #5

3DS

3DS

3DS

3DS

East

East

Wii U

3DS

Wii U

Wii U

West

Wii U

3DS

EDIT #6

EDIT #7

East

West

3DS

East

3DS

Wii U

3DS

East

East

West

don't

East

3DS

West

Wii U

East

West

3DS

Wii U

3DS

Wii U

3DS

Wii U

East

West

East

West

East

West

East

West

Wii U

East

West

East

West

3DS

Wii U

3DS

EDIT #8

3DS

Wii U

Since Sakurai has given a partial truth already, don't automatically assume he's always telling the full 100% truth---else we'd know everything about Sm4sh already! He wants to keep certain things secret for many reasons. This marketing theory tries to explain some of these potential reasons.

Wii U

EDIT #9

SwagzillaForilla said: 3DS version, along with the stages that have already been confirmed on the Wii U version. I noticed that there may be a direct correlation between new stages and newcomers.



Spoiler



3DS stages:





Wii U stages:

http://smashbros-miiverse.com/stages/wiiu For reference:3DS stages:Wii U stages:



Let's look at which major series are confirmed to have a new stage on both the 3DS and Wii U versions:



Mario: Golden Plains , 3D Land , Paper Mario , Rainbow Road , Mario Galaxy , Mushroom Kingdom U

Pokémon: Prism Tower , N's Castle , Kalos Pokémon League

The Legend of Zelda: Spirit Train , Gerudo Valley , Skyloft

Animal Crossing: Tortimer Island , Town and City

Fire Emblem: Arena Ferox , Coliseum

Kid Icarus: Reset Bomb Forest , Palutena's Temple

Pac-Man: Pac-Maze , Pac-Land

Punch Out!!: Boxing Ring (one new stage , both versions)

Mega Man: Dr. Wiley's Castle (one new stage , both versions)





Now lets look at all the series with no new stages on the 3DS version, but only returning stages :



Donkey Kong: Jungle Japes (Melee) , ???

Metroid: Brinstar (Melee) , Pyrosphere

Star Fox: Corneria (Melee) , Great Fox

Yoshi: Yoshi's Island (Brawl) , ???

Pikmin: Distant Planet (Brawl) , Garden of Hope

Sonic: Green Hill Zone (Brawl) , Windy Hill

Wario: Warioware (Brawl) , ???

Game & Watch: Flatzone 2 (Brawl) , ???

Kirby: Dreamland , Halberd (Brawl) (Kirby's situation is the opposite: a new stage on the 3DS , but a returning stage on the Wii U )





Now, there are a few discrepancies. Namely...

The Legend of Zelda hasn't had a newcomer reveal (yet), despite having 3 unique stages

The Wii Fit Trainer doesn't have a 3DS stage

Duck Hunt doesn't have a 3DS stage

I'm sure you've already noticed, but none of the major series without a new stage on the 3DS version (barring WFT and DH) have had a newcomer. This could mean nothing, or it could mean everything--no one knows for sure. But I'm inclined to believe that this points to the ESRB leak being the final roster (as sad as that is) . TheRandomCities4 , there was something else I noticed while looking at the ESRB leak. With the leak, we now know most if not all of the stages on theversion, along with the stages that have already been confirmed on theversion. I noticed that there may be a direct correlation betweenand newcomers.Let's look at which major series are confirmed to have aon both theandversions:Mario:(one, both versions)(one, both versions)Now lets look at all the series with noon theversion, but only(Kirby's situation is the opposite: aon the, but aon theNow, there are a few discrepancies. Namely...I'm sure you've already noticed, but none of the major series without aon theversion (barring WFT and DH) have had a newcomer. This could mean nothing, or it could mean everything--no one knows for sure. But I'm inclined to believe that this points to the ESRB leak being the final roster Click to expand...

3DS

new stage

3DS

Wii U

3DS

Wii U

Wii U

3DS

Wii U

new stages

Wii U

2

2

2

Eastern

2

Western

Wii U

new stages

3DS

new stages

Wii U

Wii U

new stages

3DS

3DS

Wii U

Wii U

Here it is:

I think I've finally got it! By Jove,

3DS

Wii U

Smash 4

Smash 5

Sakurai: We're now going into versions four and five within the series—this is only something that's now possible.

Kotaku: When you say four and five, do you mean the 3DS and Wii U versions? Those are separate?

Sakurai: Yeah, exactly. Click to expand...

TheRandomCities4 said: Wait a minute...







I feel another theory coming on! This one is significant---not only for Krystal, either. In fact, with this theory we will effectively have a 2-3 month buffer for further speculation even after the 3DS version releases---because it has a possibility which cannot be denied. It's actually more possible than the idea of another playtester withholding their information...



Thematically, this theory is business-influenced. Keep this in mind.



Even if this new leak is true...



Hear me out; there is still hope yet!







All of these recent leaks---and all of this recent information (including Ken's knowledge and the info I came across)---pertain solely to the 3DS version, correct? This makes sense, as the 3DS version is releasing first, and soon. However, we're assuming that the 3DS information---character-wise, especially---is intrinsically bound with the Wii U version. This is because we were only ever accustomed to one game releasing at a time---not 2.



Hence, what if there are different unlockable characters for each version?



Now wait, I know what you might say: "but Sakurai said both versions will have the same roster!"



Allow me to harken back to an older theory I came up with---specifically, something I said within it. This was the theory regarding the dual reveal with Krystal and Ridley. I mentioned, under the conditions that presented themselves at the time, that Retro Studios could have denied working on the Star Fox/Metroid crossover videogame. However, they still would have been truthfully denying that rumor if they were working on a Smash Brothers newcomer cutscene, because it wouldn't be a videogame. Now, I don't believe that theory will happen, but let's get back to the theory at hand.



The same thing can apply here. Allow me to explain:



Back in the April Smash Direct, Sakurai mentioned that "both versions will have the same roster." This was to be expected. However, he said something else that has only just now piqued my curiosity (beware, I'm paraphrasing here---but I'm 100% confident he said something in the exact context).



Sakurai: There will be cross-platform features between the 3DS and the Wii U. I will go into detail about these later.



Thing is, he has yet to explain these cross-platform features between both versions of Sm4sh. This could be considered obvious, since the nature of the Wii U version is currently unknown---in almost its entirety. They don't want the Wii U version's content to be known because they're currently pushing to sell the 3DS version. This is something we've previously established. This is obvious enough through their marketing, and their modality in releasing information (all of the game modes, among other things).



Point in case, what if one of the cross-platform features allow you to transfer version-designated unlockable characters between the 3DS and Wii U?



If this were the case, certain unlockable characters could be initially unlocked on one version---only to be transferred to the other version in quasi-DLC likeness. This would effectively allow both versions to have the same roster.



Thus, Sakurai wouldn't be lying or going back upon his word.



Yes, this sounds kind of like an evil business move by Nintendo---but it wouldn't be any more evil than reserving these characters for the DLC (like I said in an older theory, but now I don't think that's the case).



Again, I'll say it: Nintendo is a business. Not only do they have to think about our interests, but theirs as well.



Speaking of DLC, if the characters from the leak as DLC are what we get, this theory could still work. The DLC could be reserved for characters they didn't have enough developmental time to include in the initial roster---which is also why having veterans as the bulk of the DLC makes sense. If this is the case, I don't think these characters will cost anything (don't take my word on that specifically, though). These DLC characters could be revealed between the release of both versions---starting after the 3DS version's release and leading up to the Wii U one.



Now let's shift gears for a second and re-examine the franchises and their representations in this leak.



Hmm... Notice anything odd?



All of



Actually, that's not what I found odd. This is:

Mario is receiving two unique newcomers.



Well, that fact alone isn't what makes it odd.



It's when you combine that fact with those other 5 franchises not receiving anything. That is the oddity---an oddity that can be explained with this theory!



Before I further pursue that route, I feel I need to briefly remind everyone of all the teases Sakurai has made. Think back to all of his teases---including the ones that were never specifically denoted one way or the other. What I'm trying to say here is that Sakurai is a troll---but he's also more than that. He's aware of us and our interests.



I also feel I need to remind everyone that every single franchise received a newcomer in Brawl. All of them. Heck, we even added a new franchise---Kid Icarus! Not only that, but Brawl had a singular team, and they had to work on the massive Subspace Emissary. Their team in general was smaller, too.



Smash 4 has multiple teams, composed of multiple developer groups, like Team Sora and Namco Bandai. Brawl didn't have that.



Let's shift gears again and examine the marketing for Smash 4. Smash, outside of being its own game, is about raising awareness for franchises, not characters per se. Keep this in mind as you read the following question:



Have you noticed a particular theme in Sm4sh's marketing? Well...



Does East vs. West ring a bell? It certainly should...





Look back to E3 2014. Do you remember that hilariously epic opener with Smash? If you do (which you should)...



Who was fighting in the cutscene?



Correct. It was Reggie and Iwata.



Do you know the title of their official positions?



Again, correct. Reggie is the President of Nintendo of America. Iwata is the President of Nintendo of Japan. East vs. West strikes again.



Let's look at this a different way. Look at the colors chosen for both Sm4sh versions. The 3DS is red , and the Wii U is blue .



Why do you think they chose these colors?



There was no real need. Was it a design choice? Or is it something on a much deeper value...? Perhaps these colors are meant to represent the East and West respectively. You should understand that these respective colors are more associated with their respective side, especially on a cultural level. You should also know that Japan adheres to culture strenuously. Using such representation over their marketing for Sm4sh isn't at all far-fetched. (REFER TO EDIT #7)



Now remember back to when I said Smash is used to raise awareness for franchises. Look back at the newcomers revealed so far before the 3DS release. Look to the ones that are included in the leak---specifically Shulk and Chorus Men. Notice anything? (REFER TO EDIT #5)



Firstly, no one can officially say that these characters were wanted more in the East or the West.



However, when we look at the newcomers from the perspective of franchises, things begin to clarify.



Pokemon, Mario, Kid Icarus, Fire Emblem, and Xenoblade have a heavier influence over the East than the



Note how I didn't say that these franchises were more requested by the East to have newcomers. Why? Requests don't matter.



Well, they do, in part. But not full.



It's about influence.



So, why is this whole East vs. West theme so important?



Easy. Can you see where I'm going?



Donkey Kong, Metroid, The Legend of Zelda, and Star Fox all have a heavier influence in the West than the East.



Theory in point:



What if newcomers from these franchises are held to be the Wii U version-designated unlockables?



Interesting...



What about Little Mac, though?



Good question. Fortunately, I have a theoretical rebuttal:



Little Mac was just a "taste" of what's to come, without spoiling the surprise.



It adds up so well. As a bonus, it makes too much sense business-wise...



And now, ladies and gentlemen, the pièce de résistance...





What major factor drives the sales for Smash?



Correct. Characters. Why is this important? Simple.



Look carefully at the gap between the sales dates of the 3DS and Wii U versions.



Why would the Wii U version have the exact same roster as the 3DS version---especially if it releases 3-4 months afterwards?



Bringing the theory into full circle, it highlights a business perspective: this would be horrible marketing. Sure, Nintendo is known for their strange marketing, but considering the TLC they've done with the East vs. West theme, this time looks to be different. (REFER TO EDIT #5)



Anyways, the Wii U version wouldn't have enough incentive to match the sales of the 3DS version if it didn't have these version-designated unlockables. There are many more 3DS consoles out there than there are Wii U consoles. The Wii U version needs something spectacular to stand out as opposed to the 3DS version---and game modes alone won't cut it. I can guarantee that.



Final question:



What is Nintendo's goal for Sm4sh, marketing wise?



Simple. They want to execute plans that would accrue the most sales for all of their Sm4sh peripherals.



We're still alive, guys!







Phew! That was a long one.



I guess that means I'm back...



Back, to stay.



Still, if this theory comes out to be true, in some shape, my reaction will be similar to this:





PS: If you haven't noticed, all of these 3DS leaks, if true, can easily serve to strengthen this theory. These leaks seem to be only a part of the bigger puzzle---the Sm4sh puzzle. The Wii-U designated unlockables would serve to finish the puzzle rather nicely!



So sit back, and relax until all is really said and done---at least until after we know everything about Sm4sh, including the Wii U version.



Interestingly enough, I can't believe it took me this long to come to this conclusion. It's like it required a combination of all my past theories, ironically enough. If this is true, Sakurai is more clever than we thought.



Not to mention it would be the biggest troll move ever:



"Oh that was the full roster... Nah, I'm just kidding. All these other characters are included on the Wii U version, but you guys won't know until much later. I want you guys to squirm for as long as possible " --Masahiro Sakurai, 2014 I feel another theory coming on! This one is significant---notfor Krystal, either. In fact, with this theory we will effectively have a 2-3 month buffer for further speculation eventhe 3DS version releases---because it has a possibility whichbe denied. It's actually more possible than the idea of another playtester withholding their information...Thematically, this theory is. Keep this in mind.Even if this new leak is true...All of these recent leaks---and all of this recent information (Ken's knowledge and the info I came across)---pertain solely to the 3DS version, correct? This makes sense, as the 3DS version is releasing first, and. However, we're assuming that the 3DS information---character-wise, especially---is intrinsically bound with the Wii U version. This is because we were only ever accustomed togame releasing at a time---Hence, what if there areNow wait, I know what you might say: "Allow me to harken back to an older theory I came up with---specifically, something I said within it. This was the theory regarding the dual reveal with Krystal and Ridley. I mentioned, under the conditions that presented themselves at the time, that Retro Studios could have denied working on the Star Fox/Metroid crossover. However, they still would have beendenying that rumor if they were working on a Smash Brothers newcomer cutscene, because itbe a videogame., I don't believe that theory will happen, but let's get back to the theory at hand.. Allow me to explain:Back in the April Smash Direct, Sakurai mentioned that "both versions will have the same roster." This was to be expected. However, he said something else that haspiqued my curiosity (beware, I'm paraphrasing here---but I'm 100% confident he said something in thecontext).Sakurai:Thing is, he hasto explain these cross-platform features between both versions of Sm4sh. Thisbe considered obvious, since the nature of the Wii U version is currently unknown---in almost its. They don't want the Wii U version's content to be known because they're currently pushing to sell the 3DS version. This is something we've previously established. This is obvious enough through their marketing, and their modality in releasing information (all of the game modes, among other things).Point in case,If this were the case,unlockable characters could be initially unlocked on one version---only to be transferred to the other version in quasi-DLC likeness.Yes, this sounds kind of like an evil business move by Nintendo---but it wouldn't be any more evil than reserving these characters for the DLC (like I said in an older theory, but now I don't think that's the case).Again, I'll say it: Nintendo is a business. Not only do they have to think about our interests, butas well.Speaking of DLC,the characters from the leak as DLC are what we get, this theory couldwork. The DLC could be reserved for characters they didn't have enough developmental time to include in the initial roster---which iswhy having veterans as the bulk of the DLC. If this is the case, I don't think these characters will cost anything (don't take my word on that specifically, though). These DLC characters could be revealedthe release of both versions---starting after the 3DS version's release and leading up to the Wii U one.Now let's shift gears for a second and re-examine the franchises and their representations in this leak.Hmm... Notice anything odd?All of these franchises are receiving newcomers except for The Legend of Zelda, Kirby, Donkey Kong, Star Fox, and Metroid.Actually, that's not what I found odd.is:is receivingunique newcomers.Well, that factisn't what makes it odd.Before I further pursue that route, I feel I need to briefly remind everyone of all the teases Sakurai has made. Think back toof his teases---including the ones that were neverdenoted one way or the other. What I'm trying to say here is that Sakurai is a troll---but he's alsothan that.I also feel I need to remind everyone thatreceived a newcomer in Brawl. All of them. Heck, we even added afranchise---Kid Icarus! Not only that, but Brawl had athey had to work on theSubspace Emissary. Their team in general was smaller, too.Smash 4 hasteams, composed ofdeveloper groups, like Team Sora and Namco Bandai. Brawlhave that.Let's shift gears again and examine the marketing for Smash 4. Smash, outside of being its own game, is about raising awareness forcharacters per se. Keep this in mind as you read the following question:Have you noticed a particularin Sm4sh's marketing? Well...Look back to E3 2014. Do you remember that hilariously epic opener with Smash? If you do (which you should)...Correct. It was Reggie and Iwata.Again, correct. Reggie is the President of Nintendo of. Iwata is the President of Nintendo of. East vs. West strikes again.Let's look at this a different way. Look at the colors chosen for both Sm4sh versions. The 3DS is, and the Wii U isThere was no real. Was it a design choice? Or is it something on a much deeper value...? Perhaps these colors are meant to represent theandrespectively. You should understand that these respective colors are more associated with their respective side, especially on a cultural level. You should also know that Japan adheres to culture. Using such representation over their marketing for Sm4shfar-fetched. (REFER TO EDIT #7)Now remember back to when I said Smash is used to raise awareness for franchises. Look back at the newcomers revealed so far before the 3DS release. Look to the ones that are included in the leak---specifically Shulk and Chorus Men. Notice anything? (REFER TO EDIT #5)Firstly, no one can officially say that thesewere wanted more in the East or the West.However, when we look at the newcomers from the perspective of, things begin to clarify., Mario, Kid Icarus,, andhave a heavierover the East than the other franchises that have yet to receive newcomers. All of these franchises (and supposedly Xenoblade) are receiving newcomers, while it seems the others aren't. (REFER TO EDIT #5)Note how Isay that these franchises wereby the East to have newcomers. Why?Well, they do, in part. But not full.It's about influence.Easy. Can you see where I'm going?Donkey Kong, Metroid, The Legend of Zelda, and Star Fox all have a heavier influence in the West than the East.Interesting...Good question. Fortunately, I have a theoretical rebuttal:It adds upwell. As a bonus, it makes too much sense business-wise...And now, ladies and gentlemen, theCorrect. Characters. Why is this important? Simple.Look carefully at the gap between the sales dates of the 3DS and Wii U versions.Bringing the theory into full circle, it highlights a business perspective: this would be horrible marketing. Sure, Nintendo is known for their strange marketing, but considering the TLC they've done with the East vs. West theme, this time looks to be different. (REFER TO EDIT #5)Anyways, the Wii U version wouldn't have enoughto match the sales of the 3DS version if it didn't have these version-designated unlockables. There aremore 3DS consoles out there than there are Wii U consoles. The Wii U version needs somethingto stand out as opposed to the 3DS version---and game modes alone won't cut it. I canthat.Final question:Simple. They want to execute plans that would accrue the most sales forof their Sm4sh peripherals.Phew! That was a long one.I guess that means I'm back...Back, to stay.Still, if this theory comes out to be true, in some shape, my reaction will be similar to this:PS: If you haven't noticed, all of these 3DS leaks, if true, can easily serve tothis theory. These leaks seem to be only aof the bigger puzzle---the Sm4sh puzzle. The Wii-U designated unlockables would serve tothe puzzle rather nicely!So sit back, and relax until all issaid and done---at least until after we knowabout Sm4sh, including the Wii U version.Interestingly enough, I can't believe it took me this long to come to this conclusion. It's like it required a combination of all my past theories, ironically enough. If this is true, Sakurai is more clever than we thought.Not to mention it would be the biggest troll move ever:"Oh that was the full roster... Nah, I'm just kidding. All these other characters are included on the Wii U version, but you guys won't know until much later. I want you guys tofor as long as possible" --Masahiro Sakurai, 2014 Click to expand...

3DS

Wii U

Smash 4

Smash 5

I think the differences include the different hidden unlockable characters in both versions as well.

Wii U

3DS

3DS

3DS

Wii U

Wii U

3DS

Wii U

3DS

3DS

Wii U

Wii U

3DS

Wii U

3DS

We want to experience the new Smash as soon as possible. Since the version that currently appears the most attractive is releasing first, we may be influenced to purchase it. This reason partly intertwines with the first. Those who decided not to buy the 3DS version may eventually give into the pressure---the pressure to Smash. Thus, they may purchase the 3DS version sometime between the 2-3 month gap separating the 3DS version release and Wii U version release. You generally want to own both versions---in which case you've already decided the fate of your money, so it doesn't matter.

Wii U

And this, ladies and gentlemen, is the crux of the new theory.

Wii U

Wii U

3DS

Wii U

Wii U

Smash 4

Smash 5

Now wait, I know what you might say: "but Sakurai said both versions will have the same roster!"



Allow me to harken back to an older theory I came up with---specifically, something I said within it. This was the theory regarding the dual reveal with Krystal and Ridley. I mentioned, under the conditions that presented themselves at the time, that Retro Studios could have denied working on the Star Fox/Metroid crossover videogame. However, they still would have been truthfully denying that rumor if they were working on a Smash Brothers newcomer cutscene, because it wouldn't be a videogame. Now, I don't believe that theory will happen, but let's get back to the theory at hand.



The same thing can apply here. Allow me to explain:



Back in the April Smash Direct, Sakurai mentioned that "both versions will have the same roster." This was to be expected. However, he said something else that has only just now piqued my curiosity (beware, I'm paraphrasing here---but I'm 100% confident he said something in the exact context).



Sakurai: There will be cross-platform features between the 3DS and the Wii U. I will go into detail about these later.



Thing is, he has yet to explain these cross-platform features between both versions of Sm4sh. This could be considered obvious, since the nature of the Wii U version is currently unknown---in almost its entirety. They don't want the Wii U version's content to be known because they're currently pushing to sell the 3DS version. This is something we've previously established. This is obvious enough through their marketing, and their modality in releasing information (all of the game modes, among other things).



Point in case, what if one of the cross-platform features allow you to transfer version-designated unlockable characters between the 3DS and Wii U?



If this were the case, certain unlockable characters could be initially unlocked on one version---only to be transferred to the other version in quasi-DLC likeness. This would effectively allow both versions to have the same roster.



Thus, Sakurai wouldn't be lying or going back upon his word. Click to expand...

Wii U

3DS

Wii U

3DS

Wii U

3DS

Wii U

3DS

3DS

Wii U

Wii U

Wii U

Wii U

3DS

Wii U

3DS

3DS

Wii U

I've actually found yet another possibility.

3DS

3DS

Wii U

Wii U

Wii U

Wii U

Wii U

ChronoBound said: Hey, there has been a bit of commotion lately about a new possible leak with Smash 4. In this leak, its stated that newcomers will consist of Shulk, Duck Hunt Dog, Bowser Jr., and Dark Pit (as well as the return of Dr. Mario).



However, the main reputable leaker (the source behind salromano/gematsu), has made no mention of the latter three.



What explains this discrepancy?



The truth of the matter is that at least during Brawl's developments, the builds that foreigners playtest, don't have the entire roster on them.



Let me explain.



During the pre-Brawl days there were three primary leakers:



NyaseNya, who claimed:

- Brawl would have 35 characters.

- No Mega Man or Ridley

- Brawl would be delayed.

- Be on a dual-layers disc.

- That Captain Falcon, Ness, and Mr. Game & Watch would return.

- That Olimar and Toon Link are newcomers (and even described a bit of Olimar's moveset)

- Was an infamous troll obsessed with the buttocks of Nintendo females (particularly Peach)



ChaosZero:

- Said Lucario, Wolf, and Sonic would be newcomers.

- Mewtwo would be cut.

- Ganondorf, Falco, Sheik, Captain Falcon returning.

- Described the Dragoon item.



ShadowXOR:

- Said Marth, Ness, and Captain Falcon would return.

- Said ROB was a newcomer.



Why didn't any of these three people know the entire roster?



Well, its because none of them (or their sources) had access to builds that contained the entire roster. As a matter of fact, one of the leakers (ShadowXOR) mentioned to me that there were several characters in his build that were on the Dojo yet not in the copy his source was playtesting.



Why Sakurai/Nintendo did this is anyone's guess, but it was probably a contribution behind why Brawl's balance was so awful.



As to how this revelation is relevant to today, is this.



Gematsu/salromano claims one of our newcomers will be Chorus Men.



Yet Ninka/vaanrose's source claims Chorus Men wasn't in it.



Gematsu also makes no mention of Duck Hunt Dog, Bowser Jr., or Dark Pit (who to be fair could have been a last minute addition).



Its possible that Sakurai may again be giving foreign debuggers/balancers copies of Smash 4 with incomplete rosters (possibly to stop someone from leaking the ENTIRE roster).



If this is the case, then its possible that characters like Chorus Men, Ice Climbers, Wolf, and Lucas may still actually be in Smash 4.



Moreover, other leakers (like the 4chan leak also mentioning Duck Hunt Dog, Chorus Men, Bowser Jr., Shulk, Dixie Kong, Mewtwo, Ridley) might also be correct, despite not knowing about Dark Pit and Dr. Mario.



Personally, I am skeptical.



For one, I am not convinced yet on Ninka/vaanrose's source. There needs to be something major from their leak to be confirmed (namely the confirmation of one of their newcomers outside of Shulk, or the ability of Shulk's moveset confirmed, or the confirmation that Olimar has Alpha alternates).



The second thing, is that I don't feel confident Sakurai is reprising his pre-Brawl strategy of handing incomplete rosters for balance to foreign branches of Nintendo this time around. He is actively striving for balance this time, and as far as I am aware of there were no characters on the Ninka/vaanrose build that has been confirmed that has been absent.



We have only 1.5 months left so all that is left is a waiting game.



In the worst case scenario our remaining newcomers are:

- Shulk

- Chorus Men.



or



- Shulk

- Bowser Jr.

- Duck Hunt Dog

- Dark Pit

- Dr. Mario



in a slighly better scenario



we get all newcomers from Gematsu and Ninka/vaanrose (which we simply gain Chorus Men as a newcomer, though possibly Wolf and Ice Climbers don't get cut). Both sources say Lucas is gone.



In the best case scenario (in which the 4chan leaker is also reputable), we also get Dixie Kong, Ridley, and Mewtwo.



In times like this its imperative to keep our expectations low.



I hope my information at least sheds some new light on the leaks going on, and that it at least offers some clarity on the situation at hand.



Smash 4 will soon be released so hopefully this debate will soon come to an end. Click to expand...

Something similar---in regards to leaks---has happened before.

West

Wii U

Wii U

3DS

3DS

East

West

color

choice

East

Red

West

Blue

East

West

East

West

I'm not done yet!

XenothiumX said:

[collapse=PotD September 9, 2013]This is our first look at the Super Mario Galaxy stage. Not much to see but Kirby and the background.

[collapse=PotD November 14, 2013]a more in depth look at the Super Mario Galaxy stage



[collapse=Greninja]

[collapse=PotD March 11, 2014]This is our first look at Lumiose city. We don't even see any platforms.

[collapse=PotD March 28, 2014] Now we see the the platforms and conclude that this must be a moving stage.



[collapse=Palutena][collapse=PotD January 29, 2014]Here we first see the background of the Kid Icarus stage on the Wii U

[collapse=PotD April 30, 2014]Now we see the statue again, but with a platform.

[collapse=Robin][collapse=PotD June 6, 2014]the first appearance of the Fire emblem stage on the Wii U.

[collapse=Krystal][collapse=PotD July 21, 2014]It's hard to make out whether the Great Fox is the stage or if there will be a platform in front of it. I've noticed a pattern, As far as the Newcomers we've seen who are from an already represented franchise in smash, they've had a stage from their franchise be partially revealed when it was initially shown in the Pic of the day, then it would be followed up with a more in depth look at their stage in a later Pic of the Day.[collapse=Rosalina][collapse=PotD September 9, 2013]This is our first look at the Super Mario Galaxy stage. Not much to see but Kirby and the background.[/collapse][collapse=PotD November 14, 2013]a more in depth look at the Super Mario Galaxy stage[/collapse]Rolalina was revealed in the December Nintendo Direct.[/collapse][collapse=Greninja][collapse=PotD March 11, 2014]This is our first look at Lumiose city. We don't even see any platforms.[/collapse][collapse=PotD March 28, 2014] Now we see the the platforms and conclude that this must be a moving stage.[/collapse]Greninja is revealed in the April direct.[/collapse][collapse=Palutena][collapse=PotD January 29, 2014]Here we first see the background of the Kid Icarus stage on the Wii U[/collapse][collapse=PotD April 30, 2014]Now we see the statue again, but with a platform.[/collapse]Palutena is revealed during E3[/collapse][collapse=Robin][collapse=PotD June 6, 2014]the first appearance of the Fire emblem stage on the Wii U.[/collapse]I suppose you could say that we got a better look at the Fire Emblem stage during the E3 demo of the game.[/collapse][collapse=Krystal][collapse=PotD July 21, 2014]It's hard to make out whether the Great Fox is the stage or if there will be a platform in front of it.[/collapse]We are waiting for another more in depth reveal of the Starfox stage followed up by a Starfox newcomer.[/collapse] Click to expand...

3DS

Wii U

Wii U

Wii U

Wii U

3DS

Wii U

Wii U

Can't you see just how uncannily all these things can add up together?!



It's just like one giant puzzle! Sakurai could be dividing the pieces to the puzzle among different playtesters to mislead us. He's done it already in Brawl!



And now that both the Wii U and 3DS versions are in play, he could further mislead us by giving Wii U playtesters builds that, roster-wise, don't fully agree with the 3DS roster we would have at the time!

3DS

EDIT #1

Wii U

3DS

Western

3DS

West

Wii U

(I have been constantly adding edits to further clarify the theory, or to answer questions some might have regarding certain points of the theory---so check back occasionally to see what else has been clarified!)Bear with me, this will be a channeling of a post I made on a different thread. This new theory, for ease-of-the-tongue, will be called The Marketing Theory---especially since it directly concerns the marketing of Smash 4.However, itdirectly pertains to all of the franchises that haveto receive newcomers (i.e. Metroid, The Legend of Zelda, Donkey Kong, Kirby, and Star Fox).: Okay, look. This theory mainly concerns the idea of marketingversion of Smashthe other---which is what Nintendo is doing. How else would they drive thefor theversion if itbe with a few different characters---especially considering that theversion istheversion? Keep this in mind while you read the theory---you read the theory.: With this theory, both of the rosters won't be different---at least in their entirety, and at least in the beginning.Most of the characters. This theory considers the idea of using ahidden unlockable characters to provide more incentive in purchasing both versions---or establishing connections with someone who has the other version. This promotesconnectivity. Thus, with this cross-platform connectivity, both versions could still conceivably have the same roster---justin the beginning. Also, with this in mind, Sakuraihave lied, if this theory is true, when he made the statement: "both versions will have the same roster." After all, Sakuraiclarifiedthat the rosters would be the same. He only said that they'd be the same. Thus, this theory remains possible.: @ Jellybat made an interesting inference that could clarify this theory to some. Think about Pokemon X/Y. Both feature different legendary Pokemon. However, both games could conceivably have both legendaries, depending on you either acquiring both versions---or throughmeans of connectivity. Translate this to Smash. These "legendary Pokemon" would be theunlockable characters from each version.: There was a point I made in the theory that can sound like I'm referring to the's potential hidden characters being the incentive for theversion's sales. That's not entirely what I was going for---allow me to clarify:Thethat lead up to theversion's release build marketing for theversion already. Thedoesn'tthe incentive because they already have it. The reveals we've had so far seem to cater more towards the. Little Mac was probably just a "taste" of what's to come for theversion. This is why it makes sense for theversion to come first as well, for the marketing has, so far, focused on that version instead of theversion.As for theversion, well, there's less time for reveals. In this sense, having unlockable characters as the further incentive is understandable from a marketing perspective---if they're from the franchises that have a heavier influence on theI wasn't trying to bundle theandversions together with this point---my context in that area can appear that I have. I apologize in advance.: Here's something I need to clarify. There is a possibility that youboth versions/consoles to receive these few hidden newcomers, if this theory happens. What if there's DLC that allows someone who ownsversion of Sm4sh to download the few hidden newcomers from theversion? At the same time,someone went through the dirty work of purchasingversions, they could transfer the charactersresorting to the DLC---which the DLC would likely cost money, just not as much as buying both versions/consoles. This way, we would have: Here's another little tidbit regarding thevs.point. Whydo you think thecould be marketed towards the? This reason extendsof Smash. Ianyone to take a promotional tour of Japan. Once there, keep track of this question:Look, we know that Japan is practically always on the move. They enjoy their handhelds. Thus, it would make sense for them to treat theversion as the "" version. Furthermore, use this edit in conjunction with Edit #5 for best results.By the way, when I say "vs.", or anything of the sort, Imean thatthecan buy theversion andthecan buy theversion. All I'm referring to is that Nintendo could be using these two different versions to markettheor the---to captivate each sides' hearts(first thewith, then thewith the few hidden unlockables [due to less time for reveals between theandlaunches]).Guess what? Sakuraihave to make Smash on theat all, he could have done it just on the, the home console---just like he has for every past iteration of Smash.Look at it this way (and I even mention this in the theory):One version of Smash wouldto be used to market to theThis has happened in the past---for instance with Smash 64, Melee, and Brawl.Now that they're working onversions, they couldthe focus of marketingboth versions (and) andthe marketing home with a message (). Not only that, they could allot bigger teams than they ever had onversion tothetheIf this is what they're doing, like I said, it's---business-wise.Besides, if youthink thevs.argument is weak, I have a rebuttal---though it's theoretical. We have next to no information about theversion. Weknow how both versions will connect/communicate. Thus, theyset up thevs.marketing scheme yet, in it's entirety at least. They've only potentiallyto it. They can'tthevs.marketing strategy yet because they haveto release theversion---it'sto reveal details about theversion as that could take the attentionof theversion, which is the version they're currently pushing to sell!: There is a point I made in the theory thatSakurai has given a partial truth about the gap between theand's sales. He said it was for "debugging reasons". This istrue---it's also forreasons. Of course, heclarify these marketing reasons because that would give away Nintendo's business secrets, and the marketing strategy of Sm4sh could easily become busted.However, there isinference you must draw from this:By the way, this refers mainly to those who say that Sakurai said "the roster would be the same in both versions" tothe theory. This couldbe one of those---a partial truth that he could very well clarify closer to theversion's launch!: @ SwagzillaForilla just pointed out something in Leaker #2's part of the ESRB leak thatI can see working hand-in-hand with the marketing theory:Lookat the stages on the supposedstage selection screen leak.Yes, it'sthat none of the major franchises without aon theversion (barring WFT and DH) have had a newcomer.But itpoint, considering the stage tease possibility, towardsfranchises having hidden newcomers on theversion---just as the marketing theory suggests! These franchises are not theof theversion's sales! So...In a way, the marketing theoryWhat if these franchisesget a new stage ontheversion---to be revealed/detailed when Sakurai updates us about theversion,theversion's launch---thattowards their newcomers?This is good for Metroid, Donkey Kong, and Star Fox. They could be in the clear---regarding the theory's idea ofhidden unlockables.As for The Legend of Zelda, it hasonversions. This is a discrepancy. Perhaps it's a discrepancy that could be explained with the 'ol Trophy Theory? Anyone remember that? There were two trophies that potentially coincided with the reveals of Palutena and Robin/Lucina. There were also twotrophies, one from Metroid and one from Legend of Zelda. Not only that, butof these trophies, under the marketing theory, could hint towards their franchise newcomers' inclusion as hidden unlockable characters in theversion. Trophy-Tease-wise, that would make itandwith a heavierinfluence, andwith a heavierinfluence.The Legend of Zelda is thestrong discrepancy, and it is theother franchise to have a trophy appear in the Smash direct. This discrepancyseal the gap of the trophy theory as well, in this light!As for Kirby, I wouldn't worry that much. I feel it couldget a new stage on theversion, along with the version-designated hidden unlockable character. ThisSakurai's own franchise, after all.As forof the franchises that haveonversions,are the franchises that have characters that will appear readily onversions. These are pretty much, if notof the characters that have been revealedtheversion's release---whichwith the marketing theory.This gap of, coincidingwith the franchises currently missing newcomers due to possible marketing incentive, could be filled with theversion's information!Let's consider the situation from anperspective:Itmake sense---under the marketing theory and stage tease theory together (or apart for that matter)---for these franchises that might include hidden unlockable characters on theversion to receiveon theversion. This is because, as the marketing theory suggests, these franchisesgoing to be used as marketing incentive for theversion, but rather theversion! Saveto garner attention for theversion!. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .(Disclaimers are at the bottom of this post)I believe I just found (and remembered) an actual piece ofthat further suggests the possibility of this marketing theory taking place. No less, it's somethingsaid. It's also something,, most of us (those who've seen it) discredited as a slip up, or just somethinginsignificant.Do any of you remember when Sakurai said he treats Smash on theand Smash on thelikeandrespectively?I'll wait a moment to see if you can see where I'm going with this---and why it's potentiallyimportant to the marketing theory...Here's the originalmarketing theory for those who haven't seen it yet, by the way:Can you see why this information may be important to the marketing theory?If not, allow me to elaborate:Firstly, while keeping the new theory in mind, this isthat both of the gamesbe the same. Now, in a general context, this could seem insignificant. We should already know that both games will have different features already, what with all the different game modes (feasibly) and different stages.However, whatof differences would warrant theandversions to be called "and" by Sakurai? Would the differences be limited tothe game modes and stages? I frankly don't believe so. By saying this, Sakurai has effectively taken oniterations of Smash at theI'm going to sidestep here briefly to clarify something I feel I didn't in the original marketing theory. When I said that both versions could have different unlockable characters to be transferred from theversion to theversion (and vice-versa), I meant these would probably thoseunlockable characters---the characters we will knowthelaunch. I think the characters known before thelaunch are going to be readily available inversions. Whether some of these already known characters will be unlockable or not won't mean anything. I'm referring specifically to those characters that are(or potentially made for theroster on one of the versions---the roster on one versiontransferring the character data to and/or fro). (REFER TO EDIT #5)Back to the differences in both versions.Imagine this perspective:What if both games were to be released at the? If this were the case, I would be inclined to believe that each version would share thesame roster, as the time frame wouldn't suggest much of a difference in each version (that time frame would also suggest horrible marketing; which, the marketing is a key point in the new marketing theory). However, as you and I know, this isn't the case.Thetime frame between both releases is between 2-3 months. This gives Sakurai enough time to detail much of theversion before its launch---since the info will focuson theversion, since theversion would already be released.Yes, Sakuraisay that the time frame difference was because "debugging theversion takes longer than theversion". This couldbe a. But...Guess what? It'sa partial truth. I canit.Let's take a look back at the marketing of Sm4sh.As we should know, releasing both versions at the same time would be horrible marketing. The best way to handle marketinggames at once would be to release information about each version. First, release information about theversion to make it appear more attractive than theone, leaving theversion in the dark. Nintendo's strategy isobvious, as theversion comes outtheone. What this strategy, is that it could entice you into buying theversion when it comes out---for a couple reasons:(REFER TO EDIT #8)Oh, don't worry. Nintendo willwant to buy that one too---You see, Nintendo wants to make the most sales betweenof their Sm4sh peripherals. In fact, any other sane business-oriented company in Nintendo's position would strive for the same goal---it's almost entirely for the money. Smash is aHowever...There is anwith our current knowledge/assumptions with how theversion's content will be handled. Like I've said before, we'rethat theroster iswhatever theroster will be. How can we be so certain of this? We havehow the's content will be handled---Sakurai hasn't even added theversion's homepage on the official site yet!Besides, we were only ever accustomed toSmash releasing per console generation---. This is only given more credence by Sakurai's statement regarding both versions beingandrespectively.Here's a dirrect channeling of the original theory for those who haven't read it, in anticipation of a certain response:Hypothetically, there isan issue with Nintendo's marketing choices,the rosters are explicitly the same in both versions:If this is the case, thethings that would motivate people to buy theversion over theversion would be to have a version of Smash that would play on the bigger screen, have better graphics, and/or to have those different in-game features (unless they have some kind ofphilosophy that drives them to buy it).From this, we must ask this important question and answer it from aperspective:To us, it could seem that the answer would be yes.However, if there are moreconsoles out there thanconsoles, theversion is automatically considered morefor the consumer to purchase---at least in the general sense. Thus, the convenience of theversion couldover those other reasons to buy theversion, especially if they don't own a. I've already seenof arguments on these forums about this issue. I'm sure these arguments have happened on plenty of other websites---and even offline---too.Look, Nintendo doesn'twant theversion to sell well---as all of their other Sm4sh peripherals. They want, extensively, theconsoleto sell as well. Here's another question to consider:Actually, this question is almost impossible to answer, at least factually. It's a question about someone's perspectives. What doprefer?Can you see where I'm getting at?are the questions that Nintendo must consider, since they're dealing withdifferent versions of Smash. Nintendo, as a business, must find a way to influenceinto buyingversions---or at least to find thewith the highest probable success rate regarding the sales of all Sm4sh peripherals.Do you know what this formula is? If you know whatsells Smash, you should know the formula.Alright, back to Sakurai's partial truth telling about the gap between the release dates of theandversions of Sm4sh---where he said "it was for the debugging purposes"...What if the partial truth wasn'tfor that surface-layer marketing I exposed just above?Justhow that would affect the consumer's decision among purchasing certain Sm4sh peripherals. We would effectively have to getversions in order to have theSm4sh roster. Yes, this would seem like a b*** move from Nintendo---but the fact that this possibility existsbe denied! Therefore, welook at theroster (when theversion releases) and say "that's all folks!", econsidering there's so much info currentlyabout theversion!Alternatively...Imagine the above happening. It'd be all the same. The only difference would be DLC.Now, imagine you've purchased theversion only. What if Nintendo allowsversion owners to download the hidden characters from theversionhaving to own the? Of course, it would cost money, but notas much as the+ theversion of the game. The same thing could work vice-versa for theversion owners. (REFER TO EDIT #6)This way, Nintendo would effectively be catering towardsmarkets---as well as consumer interest. If they are geniuses,would be the path they choose. And to think,Would you care to hear whatcaused me to come up with this theory in the first place? Well, itstemmed from a spot of information regarding Brawl's leaks. Here's an OP from a thread entitled " The Truth About Leaks: Why Don't Leakers Have The Full Picture? ":Payattention to thepart.That's right. There werebuilds released to the different playtesters forMeaning:For Sm4sh, the Ninka/Vaanrose leaks (to which the newer 3-piece 3DS roster leakagrees with) appear to stem fromplaytester builds. It seems Sakurai is up to his old shenanigans again, if all of these leaks are true.However, this led me to wonder aboutpotential gaps in the roster. If you read mynew marketing theory post, you'd understand what I'm saying here. I'm referring to the lack of newcomers from Star Fox, Donkey Kong, Legend of Zelda, and Kirby.If you read my original new marketing theory post, you'd also understand that I was focusing on, and not specific characters---for the franchises divvied by newcomer inclusionhave varied with each version of Sm4sh. If this is the case, then we could see playtester leaks appear that show newcomers from franchises that have ainfluence on thewithin theversion (a couple of weeks before theversion's release---just like what is currently,happening with theversion). The opposite goes for theversion---andplaytester leaks certainly seem to agree with this.If you read my original new marketing theory post, you would also understand the premise I set up for Sm4sh's general marketing: thevs.idea---marketing each different version more towards each culture. This also could explain thefor each version of Sm4sh. Culturally, theis more associated with, while theis more associated with. As you should know, and as I've mentioned in my original new theory post, Japan adheres to culture ideasThus, having them center their marketing strategy for Sm4sh around thevs.mentality isnot far-fetched. (REFER TO EDIT #7)Not only that, but dividing Sm4sh up and marketing it in avs.sense would beThis way, instead of trying to marketversion of Smash to the, they can focus on giving content specific to each version that would appeal with their respective marketing intent. Yet, at the same time, allowing the smashers options to useversions' contentin each specific version, based on the cross-platform connections. That's pretty freaking genius, huh? (REFER TO EDIT #7)But wait,Does anyone remember this potential pattern/theory?Well, we're nearing the release of theversion, right? What does this mean, again?It means we are close to receiving information about theversion...Think of it this way:Besides Zelda, pretty muchof the franchises that are lacking newcomers. ThisStar Fox, Kirby, and Donkey Kong. Metroid is in another-but-similar boat because of all of the potential and non-clarified Ridley teases.Well, guess what? Donkey Kong and Kirbyto getstages! Star Fox'sstage isSakurai begins to solely reveal info about theversion---which istheversion releases.Whether or notfranchises will have a newcomer reveal to solidify the ideatheversion releases, is up in the air. Right now, that doesn't necessarily matter, for my new theory remains possible withwithout reveals., the possibility of these stage revealsa franchise newcomer as a version-designated unlockable for theversionexists! (REFER TO EDIT #9). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .*phew!*This is it. I've laidof my cards on the table. I'm unable to foresee any other possibility---beyond the possibility of these theoriescoming true.I apologize for the amount of Phoenix Wright content in this post. It gets me in the mood, and it keeps me sane while constructing these 5-6 hour long posts.Hope you all enjoy. By the way, if any of you would like to spread this theory around, by all means go right ahead! Of course, I advise you to be mindful of the site rules---as going off topic on certain threads will warrant penalties.Also, if there is anyone you know who might be saddened by the prospect of their wanted newcomers not getting into Smash---from these franchises that have yet to receive newcomers, share this info with them.The speculation lives, and will live past theversion's launch. This marketing theorypossible.By the way, I thought I might point it out once more---all of the franchises received newcomers in Brawl. All of them (except for F-Zero, but this hinges one what Sakurai thought was necessary). I count Wario as Mario because he has had heavy ties with Mario over the history---at least in this sense. Despite this, Brawlhad the massive Subspace Emissary mode, and Sm4sh doesn't seem to have something like that. Also, we got afranchise in Brawl---Kid Icarus!So, who is to say that all franchisesreceive newcomers again? The only one I might consider debatable, currently, is the Mother franchise.: Underof this, and considering theversion coming after theversion, it seems Sakurai might just pull the biggest troll move ever. This move woulddevastate ussmashers after theroster officially comes to light after its release (what with it not featuring the franchise newcomers that have heavy influence over here in the). Then, Sakurai comes out with theTheversion has these franchise newcomers. Honestly, without leaks, this would beunexpected.Lastly, I just wanted to reiterate that I'mclaiming this theory will absolutely happen. Let's see what pans out, and just how Nintendo goes about marketing the Wii U version after the 3DS version releases.At the very least, this could serve for some interesting food-for-thought.