Marth definitely has losing match ups T.T.



I think he probably loses to Falcon in Melee and in this game Falcon's ability to consistently recover vs Marth is huge on its own. Add in the fact that the stage list is unbelievably good for Falcon and this becomes a legitimate counter.



DK definitely beats Marth and Roy. You guys seem to equate probably lower tier character with not having good match ups ><



Link wins. People sleep on Link way too much. Like this is another legitimate counter.



Ganon wins by a decent bit in this game imo



Pika wins very slightly imo, few buffs to pika in the mu overall and Marth struggles even more to kill him



Dunno enough about other chars to REALLY say but I'd imagine Yoshi (idk what's going on with him in 3.6 tho)/Zard/Kirby/D3(idk about him anymore but he did win) have at least a small advantage. No one is going to agree with me about Kirby but meh. Dunno what all these heavily skewed match ups are besides maybe Bowser/Ness/Snake/maaaaaybe Ivy (disagree on Ivy but that's an undeveloped meta for you). When I see Mario/Luigi/G&W players act like their mu is far from even in any direction it's just silly lol, Mario is like dead even with Mario and G&W is 40-60 vs Marth in Melee according to Qerb. Luigi....gotta set up your utilt somehow and unless the Luigi keeps falling down mashing A like it's vBrawl airdodge it's not going to be that easy. Then, everything Marth does is punishable and Luigi punishes are obviously godlike. I'd buy Marth winning slightly at top level PM but no more.



This all reminds me of a post about 3.02 Mario where it claimed that 3.02 Mario lost 30-70 to 3.02 Marth. 0 chance Marth even won that MU. Like come on guys Marth is pretty good but he whoops ~1 character you think is any good. Yea he can hang with most characters but most characters can hang with him. Anyone familiar with decently high level Melee will tell you that Marth is the one uber top tier that can't just "tier" his way through worse characters and has the most even MU spread of them all by far.



Sorry if I'm way late or this has been beaten to death, not really keeping up with this thread anymore



Ness' punish game seems way too good and potential neutral game trickery (not going to go in depth but it's real) to be absolutely crap. He isn't that good though and SDI mitigates his punish game a decent amount. Also, why does his "kill" throw send so high? Stuff like that, and his struggles with specific match ups he can't punish super hard in and probably magnet should be a little bit faster. A few more little things like that and Ness is pretty darn good and super cool imo