Mahtasooma Profile Joined November 2010 Germany 475 Posts Last Edited: 2012-06-11 22:26:18 #2



Here's VibE's version:



http://www.sixpoolgaming.com/videos/vibe-zvt-allin-strategy/



I like VibE's version because it hits at around 8:25, which can be cruicial if siege is researched.



It's basically along the lines of



blablabla speed, drones till 36

36 Warren, 2nd gas

drone back to 36

36 3 Overlords

8-10 Roaches, THEN Baneling Nest

Overlords, Lings

morph banes



Control groups I use is one for army, one for banes, one for roaches.





Replay pack would help if you can get hands on. <3 Tang, <3.Here's VibE's version:I like VibE's version because it hits at around 8:25, which can be cruicial if siege is researched.It's basically along the lines ofblablabla speed, drones till 3636 Warren, 2nd gasdrone back to 3636 3 Overlords8-10 Roaches, THEN Baneling NestOverlords, Lingsmorph banesControl groups I use is one for army, one for banes, one for roaches.Replay pack would help if you can get hands on. http://twitch.tv/mahtasooma

HelloSon Profile Joined April 2010 United States 456 Posts Last Edited: 2012-06-11 22:21:26 #3 How does this work against players who don't get a fast third? Do they scout for quick third before committing to this attack?



'tis good guide tho, been lookin for early-mid game pressures against quick 3 CC. yo

TangSC Profile Blog Joined July 2011 Canada 1852 Posts #4 On June 12 2012 07:19 Mahtasooma wrote:

Replay pack would help if you can get hands on.

Absolutely! I will post additional replays and stream videos as they come in Absolutely! I will post additional replays and stream videos as they come in Coaching www.allin-academy.com | Team www.All-Inspiration.com

PhoenixVoid Profile Blog Joined December 2011 Canada 16298 Posts #5 Great guide to this strat. Really helps with the timings and idea behind the attack. Can't wait for the next guide! I'm afraid of demented knife-wielding escaped lunatic libertarian zombie mutants

oOOoOphidian Profile Joined January 2011 United States 1400 Posts Last Edited: 2012-06-11 22:28:42 #6 haha nice thread title...



I would definitely argue this is only all-in if you actually morph all the banelings, make extra rounds of lings, and commit all the units to an attack. You can take a 3rd and tech behind this quite nicely without having to do damage, though most of the time you can kill a lot of army or workers with it. The reactor hellion/cloak banshee build is a soft counter, as are tank openers, but you can definitely still do some damage to them or even kill them on occasion.



I've been using this style and transitioning (often not ever morphing the banelings even unless I scout my opponent playing too greedy) for a lot of my ZvTs over the past few seasons, along with fast 3 hatch builds. Both openers have their advantages and I don't feel the roach/baneling build is gimmicky, it just requires good decision making.



The main thing you are vulnerable to if the attack doesn't do much damage would be drop play (especially in multiple prongs if you took a 3rd), so prepare for that.



I can provide some replays of the style if it would help, though there are a lot already out there from pros. ZENEX_Line had a great variety of ways to do this build that are worth looking at as well. In particular I noticed you didn't talk at all about the roach/baneling builds that delay gas until ~30 supply, then they get 3. DRG has used this style in several MLGs. Creator of sc2unmasked.com

jaminski Profile Joined September 2010 England 83 Posts #7 i think this build is just dependent on the damage dealt either a good army trade or alot of worker kills with use of the ling / bane i wouldnt call it all in tho as i think even if u 1a u can still deal good damage to transition out of it [ Macrophobia ] [ EU Protoss ] [ Mid Master ]

syriuszonito Profile Joined June 2011 Poland 332 Posts #8 Nice guide, was looking for something like this.



I wouldnt call it an all-in since I think its impossible for terran to defend it without heavy army or econ loss and zerg can easily secure third + drone hard after it, in worst scenario you are slightly behind. The one || My stream http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/syriuszonito

TangSC Profile Blog Joined July 2011 Canada 1852 Posts Last Edited: 2012-06-11 23:06:15 #9 On June 12 2012 07:27 jaminski wrote:

i think this build is just dependent on the damage dealt either a good army trade or alot of worker kills with use of the ling / bane i wouldnt call it all in tho as i think even if u 1a u can still deal good damage to transition out of it

I agree, although it does require a certain level of micro and multitasking to transition effectively. I agree, although it does require a certain level of micro and multitasking to transition effectively. Coaching www.allin-academy.com | Team www.All-Inspiration.com

chaosftw Profile Joined June 2012 24 Posts #10 can you tell me the difference with your other all in (can't find it right now), that was similar to this all in?

TangSC Profile Blog Joined July 2011 Canada 1852 Posts Last Edited: 2012-06-11 23:18:33 #11 On June 12 2012 08:13 chaosftw wrote:

can you tell me the difference with your other all in (can't find it right now), that was similar to this all in?

Do you mean the Do you mean the "Big Bust" ? The roach warren goes down at 28 with that build, which makes it harder to transition than DRG's style which gets a 44 warren. However, the push arrives much earlier (8:20) so most tank builds don't finish siege mode. Coaching www.allin-academy.com | Team www.All-Inspiration.com

mahi29 Profile Joined May 2011 United States 235 Posts #12 fyi, its "top-notch" not "top-knotch" The mind is its own place, and in it self Can make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven.

TangSC Profile Blog Joined July 2011 Canada 1852 Posts #13 On June 12 2012 08:33 mahi29 wrote:

fyi, its "top-notch" not "top-knotch"

Updated, thanks - I hate typeos Updated, thanks - I hate typeos Coaching www.allin-academy.com | Team www.All-Inspiration.com

calvinL Profile Joined October 2007 Canada 406 Posts Last Edited: 2012-06-11 23:42:47 #14 My favourite variation is a recent build I saw Stephano doing at Redbull LAN, he hits as fast as your original "Big Bust" guide and has a healthy econ to back it up so transitions easier.



He puts down a 42 warren, puts down a 3rd at 8:00, and attacks at 8:20 with 8 roaches/9 banelings/16 zerglings. Much less zerglings but hits really fast and transitions really well.

oOOoOphidian Profile Joined January 2011 United States 1400 Posts #15 On June 12 2012 08:42 calvinL wrote:

My favourite variation is a recent build I saw Stephano doing at Redbull LAN, he hits as fast as your original "Big Bust" guide and has a healthy econ to back it up so transitions easier.



He puts down a 42 warren, puts down a 3rd at 8:00, and attacks at 8:20 with 8 roaches/9 banelings/16 zerglings. Much less zerglings but hits really fast and transitions really well.

Could you find a vod of that? I would like to try it. Could you find a vod of that? I would like to try it. Creator of sc2unmasked.com

calvinL Profile Joined October 2007 Canada 406 Posts Last Edited: 2012-06-12 00:02:41 #16 http://blip.tv/day9tv/illusion-t-vs-stephano-z-g2-red-bull-battlegrounds-austin-group-a-day-1-6168941



The rep is somewhere out there. Sure it doesn't work out perfectly here since Illusion didn't go for fast 3rd CC, as well as Stephano overdroning after the attack. However, I tried it myself and really liked it as it transitions pretty well if you can recognize when the push doesn't work and pull back, as well as outright killing the Terran if he went for a very greedy style. The rep is somewhere out there. Sure it doesn't work out perfectly here since Illusion didn't go for fast 3rd CC, as well as Stephano overdroning after the attack. However, I tried it myself and really liked it as it transitions pretty well if you can recognize when the push doesn't work and pull back, as well as outright killing the Terran if he went for a very greedy style.

Lobotomist Profile Joined May 2010 United States 1516 Posts Last Edited: 2012-06-12 00:06:17 #17 Jesus, what a well formatted guide. links to the VODs and breaking down by player/variation is great. it would be sick if you'd theory craft on when this build gets done. is it blind, or a response? what builds does it fair well against, what builds does it fail against? are there any scout timings (where the terran scouts you) that you'd consider abandoning the build? how important is siege timing, and how does one make such a read? Teching to hive too quickly isn't just a risk: it's an ultrarisk

TangSC Profile Blog Joined July 2011 Canada 1852 Posts #18 On June 12 2012 09:01 Lobotomist wrote:

Jesus, what a well formatted guide. links to the VODs and breaking down by player/variation is great. it would be sick if you'd theory craft on when this build gets done. is it blind, or a response? what builds does it fair well against, what builds does it fail against? are there any scout timings (where the terran scouts you) that you'd consider abandoning the build? how important is siege timing, and how does one make such a read?

Thanks Lobotomist!



And those are all good questions. At the top level, this style of Roach/Ling/Baneling is generally a response to 1Rax gas-less FE and the reason is simple - fast tech banshee/siege tank builds can shut it down better than marines/hellions/medivacs. If your opponent goes 1-rax FE into hellions, it's nearly impossible for them to defend. Basically, a build order loss. At a none-pro level, I think this push is a viable opening against any build and a good way to practice multitasking.



As for scouting, you want to drone scout and then check the front once with zerglings to confirm hellions so you can build a spine. Other than that, there's no real information you need - I think saccing an overlord would actually be a waste considering your push will determine his tech choice (i.e. if he goes banshees, he'll need them to defend which gives you time to transition).



If the terran player gets a 13 gas and goes right into tanks, it's possible to get siege mode in time for this push but even then you can often trade moderately well or consider immediately pulling back and going straight for a third, drones, and +1/+1 like Stephano. Thanks Lobotomist!And those are all good questions. At the top level, this style of Roach/Ling/Baneling is generally a response to 1Rax gas-less FE and the reason is simple - fast tech banshee/siege tank builds can shut it down better than marines/hellions/medivacs. If your opponent goes 1-rax FE into hellions, it's nearly impossible for them to defend. Basically, a build order loss. At a none-pro level, I think this push is a viable opening against any build and a good way to practice multitasking.As for scouting, you want to drone scout and then check the front once with zerglings to confirm hellions so you can build a spine. Other than that, there's no real information you need - I think saccing an overlord would actually be a waste considering your push will determine his tech choice (i.e. if he goes banshees, he'll need them to defend which gives you time to transition).If the terran player gets a 13 gas and goes right into tanks, it's possible to get siege mode in time for this push but even then you can often trade moderately well or consider immediately pulling back and going straight for a third, drones, and +1/+1 like Stephano. Coaching www.allin-academy.com | Team www.All-Inspiration.com

Walitgon Profile Joined May 2012 Australia 550 Posts #19



I've been waiting for this guide for months now



Thank you Mr All-In master Tang! Finally.I've been waiting for this guide for months nowThank you Mr All-In master Tang! BRB laddering ^_^ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Walitgon Profile Joined May 2012 Australia 550 Posts #20

Updated, thanks - I hate typeos [B]On June 12 2012 08:35 TangSC wrote:Updated, thanks - I hate typeos



I truly hope this is intended to be irony! I truly hope this is intended to be irony! BRB laddering ^_^ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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