BARRIE CASSIDY, PRESENTER: Senator, good morning. Welcome.

LEE RHIANNON, NSW GREENS SENATOR: Thank you.

CASSIDY: Can we just clear up what has happened here. They think you should abstain or have you been locked out?

RHIANNON: I only know the words you've read and other people have read. It really does go to the heart of the type of party that we are. I have always worked with members, that is the basis of the Greens New South Wales, we have a member-driven party and I work hard to continue in that way.

CASSIDY: But it goes to the heart of the party you are, it sounds like a confused party.

RHIANNON: I can understand why you put that interpretation on it.

CASSIDY: What is the penalty here , how do you plan to approach this?

RHIANNON: I will continue working with members, when parliament resumes, I will continue doing my parliamentary work.

CASSIDY: Will you go to the party room and discuss contentious issues?

RHIANNON: At the moment, it reads a suspension has been interpreted that way but I will get on and do my work as I always have working closely with members and that is what is really critical here, it does go to the heart of the issue. Are we a member-driven party or be dominated by MPs? I acknowledge there are tensions and contradictions there but it is something the Greens were founded on that we are for far-reaching social change and that is driven by people. That is why we need to get this right.

Do you accept, though, that they were offended, that you campaigned against Gonski while they were still considering the issues?

RHIANNON: Well, certainly they have explained that and I never like people to be upset with what I undertake.

But you didn't inform them what you were doing?

RHIANNON: But it was bread and butter, it was Greens policy to support the full Gonski, that is what is policy. I was just assisting local groups to produce leaflets and and get out there and campaign. Pretty basic.

Your party hadn't taken a position on Gonski, as Malcolm Turnbull outlined in the beginning of June?

RHIANNON: Yes, but we have a position of the full Gonski, so it is understandable in a party where we want members to be active they would get out there and promote it.

But when the government comes back with a change of policy, in effect, and say they were going to support the Gonski, that was new. Then surely, you couldn't then say, "Well, this is what the New South Wales branch thinks", they hadn't reconsidered it?

RHIANNON: You look at, when you are in parliament, there the different ways and changes and you consider those. But there is nothing wrong with members getting out there and prosecuting the case. That is what still astounds me, we are talking about members giving out leaflets and having an input into how I vote. That should be the kind of party we should be encouraging. I mean social Social change is because people get out there. I sit here as a female politician because our forbears literally rattled the chains. We saved the Franklin river because people demonstrated. I will go to parliament and do my job but I will work with social and environment movements to really develop those social movements which is how we achieve the big changes.

That is fair enough if the state branch, New South Wales had considered what Malcolm Turnbull put on the table which was new, but they hadn't considered it.

RHIANNON: We never even up to the very last day, the 22nd June, that Thursday, we never had the full details and you would be aware school funding is one of the most complicated issues. I never got the details. I never did anything wrong and I am proud the way the members engage on these issues.

You are satisfied? New South Wales branch should dictate how you vote?

RHIANNON: No, they don't dictate my vote, they are emotive words.

How is not that?

RHIANNON: I should be bound by policy. Let's remember the other MPs sitting in the Greens party room have a conscience vote and can vote the way they like. I think it's Democratic if members have a say. Sometimes democracy is is messy and there's contradictions along the way. I have been disappointed in Richard's leadership but you need to lead for everybody and it is not just me locked out of the party room, the Greens New South Wales members no longer have a voice in the party room .

When you say you are disappointed with Richard Di Natale's leadership, does it run through the New South Wales branch?

RHIANNON: I imagine there are different opinions but at the moment the issue is energising people. The Greens New South Wales, remember, for 10 years we were a party that didn't have an MP before an MP was elected and our members have a huge say in how the party runs. They decide their own preferences, they do their own preference negotiations, they vote in preselections, they actually, unlike all the or Greens parties in this country, they control the money at a local level, so they run the party. And I am one of those members. I have my say as well. It is something to be celebrated and seriously, you look around the world at the moment, mass movement are on the rise around the world. Like, there is a change in how politics works. Parliament is important to me, but it is not the main game.

OK, so if they change to manage to change the rules, how will you respond?

RHIANNON: Changing the rules won't happen overnight and we will take it to the state delegates meeting this weekend and they will interact with other states as well is, isn't it time to make the party more Democratic for members so they can have a vote for the leader?

Yes, but they are going in the other direction. If they change the rules, how would New South Wales react? Would it lead to a split?

RHIANNON: The party room can't change the rules, we have democracy in our party still.

All 9 colleagues, you were isolated on that and signed a letter of complaint so there a chance they will change the rules?

RHIANNON: But they can't change the rules, they might work hard to get it changed but it has to be decided by members.

Sure, if it was to happen, how would you respond?

It will take a long time and I doubt it will happen. Greens looks for solutions and we have been a member-driven party and I am hearing it is on the agenda. Just to rob members of their rights, I can't see it happening.

When you say you are disappointed with Richard Di Natale's leadership, it is just this or is there something else bothering you?

RHIANNON: We need to ensure that we are a party based on its members. When you consider the huge changes that are going on in the world, like the world is cooking, the inequality in the world, so many people are homeless, we need to be part of that world-wide change that is occurring. I don't think there is anything wrong with young members who join the party who want to talk about socialism, who have a different vision for the world, who want to have a say in their own life, that's what we need to tap into.

That's the left renewable group in the New South Wales?

RHIANNON: It is not just the left, it is many people who see capitalism isn't working and things need to change. Well, there is nothing wrong with those conversations. Look at the Corbyn experience. A year ago, he was discredited, regarded as a fool, he couldn't win. Then he, the vote, for Labour, biggest swing ever and it was an on platform renationalising the railways, free higher education, and it was about workplace democracy and he is talking about socialism. I never thought I would see it happen.

Some consider you are out of step and have a different approach to the rest of the party, you would rather be part of a protest party rather than a more pragmatic party that Richard Di Natale's trying to run, that you are sort of anti-establishment anti-capitalism.

RHIANNON: That's certainly one of the attempts to damage my reputation. If you look at my work in parliament I have got the runs on the board. Both in the New South Wales parliament and the Federal parliament. I was instrumental in winning Senate voting reform, we won it in both parliaments and political donation reform, I have been able to head that up, but you can be a protest party as well, it drives changes in parliament. History shows it.

The other complaint I hear is they want to focus on bread and butter issues, you obsess about foreign policy and talk about a boycott on Israel. You've said of Israel that they practice apartheid in pretty much the same way as South Africa did?

RHIANNON: I am not the only one that says that about Israel but in terms of bread and butter issues, again the runs are on the board, been working with south coast steel workers, the unions there on steel protection, we have a procurement policy that creates thousands of jobs. I worked with unions about jobs across regional Australia. If we end the cruel trade in life exports, process the meat here, job expansion. My work on housing is also issues that will make changes to people's lives here. I am a Senator, I should speak on issues internationally, but I do lots locally and am proud of it.

Do you think you can go back into the party room and work with the other nine after the letter they have written?

RHIANNON: I am ready to work with them now but we have to retain being a member-driven party. Where we welcome new voices, new ways of doing things There are mass movements on the rise and we need to be part of it.

I want to ask you about the census that came out this week, 10 years ago, 19% of Australians registered no religion and now it is 30%. The parliament begins with the Lord's prayer, is it time to look at that?

RHIANNON: It is overtime and never should have been the case. I found it out because I was so excited to see the results. I raised it in 2003, the cross benchers voted it down, to change the opening of parliament so we have a very simple statement, similar to the ACT parliament has where you have given time to reflect on your responsibilities to the constituents in the case of New South Wales. I plan to do the same thing in the Federal Parliament.

When you bringing that up?

RHIANNON: In the second part of the year, when they return. It is insulting the way parliament is opened, it is not just the Lord's Prayer, it's the Lord's Prayer it is for one section of Christianity. That is considering there are many people who are not religious and many people of different faiths, it is time to start having an institution that is relevant to the twenty-first century.

Speaking of institutions. It has been a tradition since 1901, the job is ahead of you?

RHIANNON: well we do, but when we debated it in 2003, in 1856, when parliament first got going in NSW they debated this issue then and there's was parliamentarians then who thought we shouldn't start with the Lord's Prayer because there's lots of people with different religions, so the debate has been around a long time, it is just time we won it.

CASSIDY: Thank you for coming in, appreciate it.