Heen Profile Joined November 2003 Korea (South) 197 Posts #1





Game 1

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Liquid: Invoker, Phoenix, Void, Witch Doctor, Necrophos

Secret: Lion, OD, Tide, Enchantress, Slark



My initial impression when the draft was complete was that Liquid only have 1 point of initiation: Void. Any time there's only 1 realistic initiator, the game is restricted to a few play styles, especially if that source of initiation isn't even that good. Chrono doesn't provide any damage, is unreliable, and has one of the longest cooldowns among rival spells. I've seen single initiation drafts pulled off well before but they were usually done on the back of heroes like Batrider, Earthshaker, Slardar etc. Void just has too many flaws to be played the same way.



Compare that to what Secret's line-up has to offer: Lion, Tide and Slark. Lion and Tide are a classic duo that used to be especially popular in China because the hex initiation guarantees a commitment from the opposing team, ensures a non-Sheever Ravage and bypasses BKBs if you succeed with the element of surprise.



Liquid also have 0 natural BKB building cores which determine how impactful Tide and, to a lesser extent, OD are going to be. If you're going to be just as vulnerable to Ravage at 30 minutes as you were at 15 minutes into the game, you better have some good alternatives. With the already crazy good start Misery had (something like 12 minute arcane boots + mek), team fights were going to be almost impossible for Liquid.



The reason I emphasize the forms of initiation comes back to the fact that Liquid have Invoker and Necro as their two main cores. These heroes don't perform well when there's no control on the team, especially Necro because the hero is so fragile for a large portion of the game that he needs assurance to get in deep and be a hero instead of a gold sink.



Lastly, on top of having poor sources of initiation, Liquid also had 2 static supports and a Void. Usually you look for roamers and early/mid game play makers in the offlaner and supports. With such bad roaming potential, the lanes were bound to play out in Secret's favor because the only way Secret find themselves in a bad position would be to YOLO into paralyzing casks or play like MVP on a bad day.





Game 2

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Liquid: Tusk, Invoker, Beast, Lycan, Oracle

Secret: Lion, Ursa, Darkseer, DP, Wyvern



The line-ups in this game were much more evenly matched than the previous game. Liquid had a more balanced draft than game 1. Secret had a pretty straightforward lineup as well. If I had to pick the line-up I like more, I would pick Secret's if not for the fact that I dislike Ursa as a hero.



Each team has two of the best aegis claiming heroes. The only difference is that I'd say Ursa 'needs' aegis while Lycan simply takes it easily and it helps in sieging scenarios. My reasoning is that Ursa farms ridiculously slow, often can't afford to go BKB because of opportunity costs which means he has to rely on a second life to go HAM.



One of the reasons I think Secret had a tough game is because of Ursa's pitiful ability to split push and clear waves. All three of Liquid's cores are great at pressuring lanes as we saw how much damage Mind_Control's Beastmaster was able to do in the top lane during the midgame. Then you combine the fact that DP and Darkseer generally aren't independent play-by-yourself kind of heroes, it created an awkward scenario where Secret had to deal with the split push with heroes that excel at full scale team fights.



Having been on a team whose signature heroes used to be Death Prophet before it became popular, I can tell you that these heroes want to fight on the other side of the river. Blowing long cooldown ultimates on your side of the map is only worth it if you can get valuable kills. Such a high percentage of the action happened on the Dire side so I felt like Liquid had so much room for error because stuff was happening far away from their base.



I also felt that Envy's Ursa quickly became irrelevant as he chose to go for Aghanim's followed by an early Boots of Travel. Two items that don't contribute much to what Ursa as a hero needs to do: kill other heroes. To expand on my earlier comment on why I dislike Ursa as a hero:



1. Doesn't contribute to objective gaming (Bad at wave clear/lane pressure, bad at high ground, bad at rat)

2. Item slot issues

3. Can't farm for shit



I'd say #2 and 3 were pretty apparent in this game. Overall though, this game could've gone either way. I would've liked to see more Ursa/Lion combos as they complement each other nicely.





Game 3

========



Liquid: Io, OD, Lion, Tide, Tiny

Secret: Furion, Invoker, Doom, Clinkz, Disruptor



I dislike Io and Lion paired together as support duos. Io is a greedy support who needs to get an acceptable level of farm. That means your other support ideally is someone that requires minimum farm and has good laning presence despite being poor. Lion provides good setup for relocates but meets neither of those conditions. One of the reasons that Secret had such a high win rate with Lion this tournament was that first and foremost PLD played excellently but also that he was given the space to grow. This might not entirely be the Io pick's fault but then again Liquid chose to go for a duo-core with the OD instead of duo-catch/space creation heroes which I much prefer when running Io/Tiny.



There were a lot of misplays on Liquid obviously but Tide having a tough lane while Io/Tiny being tied mid vs. a superior lane, Lion just being a weakass hero pre-midgame, OD needing space all added up to a miserable early game for Liquid.



By the time BKBs were available it was too late anyway but Liquid also had 0 BKB control. A potential sheepstick on OD and a farmed Lion could potentially act as pseudo BKB control but that's sort of whatever in the context of how the game unfolded. I personally like BKB control in Io/Tiny lineups because Io/Tiny games usually go at least semi-late game and it gives you so much more map control if you do have lockdown through BKB.



Ultimately Liquid's lineup had comparable growth potential to Secret's but the laning phase was too harsh and I simply don't think heroes such as OD have enough space or time to farm up in Io/Tiny lineups or at least not in THAT lineup.





Game 4

========



Liquid: Invoker, Tusk, Dazzle, Void, Drow

Secret: Lion, Doom, Beast, Windranger, Slark



I feel this has always been true with Void where picking Void means you pick damage to synergize with the Chrono and since the remake of Void, this is even more true. Invoker and Drow alone are too unreliable to deal damage on to Chrono'd targets versus competent opponents. As we all know, you can only get to the late game with a strong foundation for the early/mid game. This could have worked out completely different maybe if Tusk and Dazzle were replaced with something that synergize better with Void.



Another thing I dislike about Void + Drow is that Drow peaks post-laning phase through the mid game and Void's lack of blink dagger and levels (shorter CD) in the early half of the game mean that Chrono is unreliable and has a high cost in terms of risk and opportunity cost. Usually, with Drow lineups you want to mow down towers and one of the key ingredients to do so is the ability to control teamfights and that includes the ability to not take team fights when you don't want to, aka disengage. Chrono is a terrible spell for disengaging as it's just weird to Chrono and run away. So basically, Drow lineup = pick low cooldown heroes or heroes that are useful when ult on cooldown.



That brings me to my next point of Exort Invoker being less than optimal with Drow. It's definitely more than viable and there's probably some inexplicable bias in me that wants to see Wex Invoker when played with Drow. Almost always, the mid hero is the one that benefits the most from Drow aura. Sometimes it's the only hero that benefits from the aura at all. I personally prefer heroes that either hit heroes or towers a lot more aggressively than Exort Invoker when running Drow: Wex Invoker, Lina, Windranger etc. Also Wex Invoker conveniently has Tornado/EMP which happens to be the disengage tool that Drow lineups thrive on to obtain dominance in the game. Exort Invoker tends to farm waves but not pressure the tower and jungle too much to be worth a Drow pick for my taste.



Liquid had first pick in this game which means they last picked Drow in response to Slark which is also a question mark for me. Drow can be good vs. Slark because of the timings but Drow lineups are about everyone else, not about the Drow. Slark is eventually going to have a field day vs. a lineup that has so little damage and bad lockdown. Not to mention Drow doesn't stand a chance against Slark on an even playing field. Then again, Drow matches badly vs. most carries in a vacuum so that might not be a fair thing to say.



Interestingly enough, Secret have only played Doom vs. Liquid this tournament. Whether this is a coincidence or Secret feels that Doom support is greedy but viable vs. Liquid, I don't know. But based on previous games, when Secret first phase picked Doom + Lion, I wonder if Liquid could have altered their draft to punish such a greedy support duo to improve their game.



If I had to guess, I'd say this is the game where Liquid regrets the draft the most as it was my least favorite draft from them in this series.



I ended up not going into gameplay because I intended this piece to be a light recap from memory without having to watch the replay.



Not the closest series but GG, Congrats to Secret and good showing from Liquid this tournament. Finland and my boys getting 2nd and 4th respectively!



I was able to watch most of the games live and because I've also been casting recently, I naturally tend to think about the drafts a lot. Drafts obviously don't predetermine the outcome of the game but often play a large role in deciding when and how difficult the game is at various stages of the game. Execution is almost always more important than the draft but here are my not-too-in-depth thoughts on the games. Admittedly, a good portion of my opinions might be in hind-sight. I generally root for whoever's losing to see closer and more interesting games instead of rooting for one particular team so a lot of my opinions are dissecting flaws in the draft of the losing team.Game 1========Liquid: Invoker, Phoenix, Void, Witch Doctor, NecrophosSecret: Lion, OD, Tide, Enchantress, SlarkMy initial impression when the draft was complete was that Liquid only have 1 point of initiation: Void. Any time there's only 1 realistic initiator, the game is restricted to a few play styles, especially if that source of initiation isn't even that good. Chrono doesn't provide any damage, is unreliable, and has one of the longest cooldowns among rival spells. I've seen single initiation drafts pulled off well before but they were usually done on the back of heroes like Batrider, Earthshaker, Slardar etc. Void just has too many flaws to be played the same way.Compare that to what Secret's line-up has to offer: Lion, Tide and Slark. Lion and Tide are a classic duo that used to be especially popular in China because the hex initiation guarantees a commitment from the opposing team, ensures a non-Sheever Ravage and bypasses BKBs if you succeed with the element of surprise.Liquid also have 0 natural BKB building cores which determine how impactful Tide and, to a lesser extent, OD are going to be. If you're going to be just as vulnerable to Ravage at 30 minutes as you were at 15 minutes into the game, you better have some good alternatives. With the already crazy good start Misery had (something like 12 minute arcane boots + mek), team fights were going to be almost impossible for Liquid.The reason I emphasize the forms of initiation comes back to the fact that Liquid have Invoker and Necro as their two main cores. These heroes don't perform well when there's no control on the team, especially Necro because the hero is so fragile for a large portion of the game that he needs assurance to get in deep and be a hero instead of a gold sink.Lastly, on top of having poor sources of initiation, Liquid also had 2 static supports and a Void. Usually you look for roamers and early/mid game play makers in the offlaner and supports. With such bad roaming potential, the lanes were bound to play out in Secret's favor because the only way Secret find themselves in a bad position would be to YOLO into paralyzing casks or play like MVP on a bad day.Game 2========Liquid: Tusk, Invoker, Beast, Lycan, OracleSecret: Lion, Ursa, Darkseer, DP, WyvernThe line-ups in this game were much more evenly matched than the previous game. Liquid had a more balanced draft than game 1. Secret had a pretty straightforward lineup as well. If I had to pick the line-up I like more, I would pick Secret's if not for the fact that I dislike Ursa as a hero.Each team has two of the best aegis claiming heroes. The only difference is that I'd say Ursa 'needs' aegis while Lycan simply takes it easily and it helps in sieging scenarios. My reasoning is that Ursa farms ridiculously slow, often can't afford to go BKB because of opportunity costs which means he has to rely on a second life to go HAM.One of the reasons I think Secret had a tough game is because of Ursa's pitiful ability to split push and clear waves. All three of Liquid's cores are great at pressuring lanes as we saw how much damage Mind_Control's Beastmaster was able to do in the top lane during the midgame. Then you combine the fact that DP and Darkseer generally aren't independent play-by-yourself kind of heroes, it created an awkward scenario where Secret had to deal with the split push with heroes that excel at full scale team fights.Having been on a team whose signature heroes used to be Death Prophet before it became popular, I can tell you that these heroes want to fight on the other side of the river. Blowing long cooldown ultimates on your side of the map is only worth it if you can get valuable kills. Such a high percentage of the action happened on the Dire side so I felt like Liquid had so much room for error because stuff was happening far away from their base.I also felt that Envy's Ursa quickly became irrelevant as he chose to go for Aghanim's followed by an early Boots of Travel. Two items that don't contribute much to what Ursa as a hero needs to do: kill other heroes. To expand on my earlier comment on why I dislike Ursa as a hero:1. Doesn't contribute to objective gaming (Bad at wave clear/lane pressure, bad at high ground, bad at rat)2. Item slot issues3. Can't farm for shitI'd say #2 and 3 were pretty apparent in this game. Overall though, this game could've gone either way. I would've liked to see more Ursa/Lion combos as they complement each other nicely.Game 3========Liquid: Io, OD, Lion, Tide, TinySecret: Furion, Invoker, Doom, Clinkz, DisruptorI dislike Io and Lion paired together as support duos. Io is a greedy support who needs to get an acceptable level of farm. That means your other support ideally is someone that requires minimum farm and has good laning presence despite being poor. Lion provides good setup for relocates but meets neither of those conditions. One of the reasons that Secret had such a high win rate with Lion this tournament was that first and foremost PLD played excellently but also that he was given the space to grow. This might not entirely be the Io pick's fault but then again Liquid chose to go for a duo-core with the OD instead of duo-catch/space creation heroes which I much prefer when running Io/Tiny.There were a lot of misplays on Liquid obviously but Tide having a tough lane while Io/Tiny being tied mid vs. a superior lane, Lion just being a weakass hero pre-midgame, OD needing space all added up to a miserable early game for Liquid.By the time BKBs were available it was too late anyway but Liquid also had 0 BKB control. A potential sheepstick on OD and a farmed Lion could potentially act as pseudo BKB control but that's sort of whatever in the context of how the game unfolded. I personally like BKB control in Io/Tiny lineups because Io/Tiny games usually go at least semi-late game and it gives you so much more map control if you do have lockdown through BKB.Ultimately Liquid's lineup had comparable growth potential to Secret's but the laning phase was too harsh and I simply don't think heroes such as OD have enough space or time to farm up in Io/Tiny lineups or at least not in THAT lineup.Game 4========Liquid: Invoker, Tusk, Dazzle, Void, DrowSecret: Lion, Doom, Beast, Windranger, SlarkI feel this has always been true with Void where picking Void means you pick damage to synergize with the Chrono and since the remake of Void, this is even more true. Invoker and Drow alone are too unreliable to deal damage on to Chrono'd targets versus competent opponents. As we all know, you can only get to the late game with a strong foundation for the early/mid game. This could have worked out completely different maybe if Tusk and Dazzle were replaced with something that synergize better with Void.Another thing I dislike about Void + Drow is that Drow peaks post-laning phase through the mid game and Void's lack of blink dagger and levels (shorter CD) in the early half of the game mean that Chrono is unreliable and has a high cost in terms of risk and opportunity cost. Usually, with Drow lineups you want to mow down towers and one of the key ingredients to do so is the ability to control teamfights and that includes the ability to not take team fights when you don't want to, aka disengage. Chrono is a terrible spell for disengaging as it's just weird to Chrono and run away. So basically, Drow lineup = pick low cooldown heroes or heroes that are useful when ult on cooldown.That brings me to my next point of Exort Invoker being less than optimal with Drow. It's definitely more than viable and there's probably some inexplicable bias in me that wants to see Wex Invoker when played with Drow. Almost always, the mid hero is the one that benefits the most from Drow aura. Sometimes it's the only hero that benefits from the aura at all. I personally prefer heroes that either hit heroes or towers a lot more aggressively than Exort Invoker when running Drow: Wex Invoker, Lina, Windranger etc. Also Wex Invoker conveniently has Tornado/EMP which happens to be the disengage tool that Drow lineups thrive on to obtain dominance in the game. Exort Invoker tends to farm waves but not pressure the tower and jungle too much to be worth a Drow pick for my taste.Liquid had first pick in this game which means they last picked Drow in response to Slark which is also a question mark for me. Drow can be good vs. Slark because of the timings but Drow lineups are about everyone else, not about the Drow. Slark is eventually going to have a field day vs. a lineup that has so little damage and bad lockdown. Not to mention Drow doesn't stand a chance against Slark on an even playing field. Then again, Drow matches badly vs. most carries in a vacuum so that might not be a fair thing to say.Interestingly enough, Secret have only played Doom vs. Liquid this tournament. Whether this is a coincidence or Secret feels that Doom support is greedy but viable vs. Liquid, I don't know. But based on previous games, when Secret first phase picked Doom + Lion, I wonder if Liquid could have altered their draft to punish such a greedy support duo to improve their game.If I had to guess, I'd say this is the game where Liquid regrets the draft the most as it was my least favorite draft from them in this series.I ended up not going into gameplay because I intended this piece to be a light recap from memory without having to watch the replay.Not the closest series but GG, Congrats to Secret and good showing from Liquid this tournament. Finland and my boys getting 2nd and 4th respectively! Progamer ('''(G_G/'''')