Anonymous asked:

knightofbalance-13:

DARLING in the FRANXX has giant robots—and I even stated (foolishly) early on that it “wasn’t aiming to be a soap opera”

Considering the only way to be even more obvious this was Evangelion’s kid is if we had a DNA test: Yes that was foolish.

but I gotta be real: DARLING in the FRANXX is, more than anything else, a romance. And one thing romance stories can’t get enough of is love triangles.

Not gonna explain why? Okay, guess I’ll pick up that slack:

The reason why love triangles are so popular in romance stories is that it’s easy conflict for the story, happens in real life (although not this common) and it gives people shipping fuel which is absolute gold in the teenager demographic.

And with a love triangle, it seems somebody just has to be set up as the “loser.” Their love is unrequited. They “get in the way” of the story’s main couple. And when that person is a woman? She tends to get ragged on. Hard. And it… doesn’t sit too well with me. Because when that person is a man? He doesn’t get nearly the same treatment.

… Mam, do we need to do a drug test?

If it’s a GUY then they tend to be lucky if they only get ragged on hard. At worst, you get people threatening the voice actor, hounding them relentlessly and assaulting the writers.

For fuck’s sake: the whole “Jacob Vs. Edward” crap was so widespread fast food restraunts capitalized on it. I AM NOT KIDDING.

For example, I’ve seen the comparison of Ichigo to Gaston from Disney’s version of Beauty and the Beast. Regardless of how apt this comparison is, though, there’s a massive difference between how Gaston is regarded by audiences and how Ichigo is. No matter how terrible Gaston is, he’s beloved for his awfulness. Ichigo, meanwhile, is called “Bitchigo” and considered the Worst Thing Ever. Of course, perhaps this comparison is completely unfair; Gaston is clearly set up to be the villain of the story, whereas Ichigo is established as a friend and comrade. Gaston is supposed to be the Worst Thing Ever, but Ichigo is not.

… THEN WHY BRING IT UP?

Seriously, if you know the purpose of the two is different why compare them? Especially since Ichigo is suppose to be relatable and Gaston is an irredeemable basketcase which makes things look more biased against male characters?

This also reminds me of another show I have expertize in: RWBY. Same fairy tale allegory of Beauty and The Beast with three characters except it’s female and male. And while the famle character gets shit, no one is saying the show is better off if she’s DEAD or that they’re scared and disgusted that she is ALIVE.

I have NO idea where you are coming from this.

And I recognize, too, that the situation is complicated. If a man does find himself in a position of unrequited love, he’s often not the one “getting in the way” of the central romance unless he’s unarguably the villain; rather, he’s often the main character, and the romance where he’s “getting in the way” isn’t the heart of the story. Naruto, for a classic example, begins with the title character crushing hard on Sakura, but she only has eyes for Sasuke. Sakura/Sasuke isn’t the main point of the story, though, so while Naruto certainly receives his fair share of hate, his place in this love triangle isn’t a huge part of that.

Gastion. Seriously, by bring up Gastion, every argument of “sexism!” is immediately destroyed. Even the more modern incarnations of these characters show a man being obsessed. I bring up RWBY and…Adam Taurus….

So, perhaps a lot of the issue lies in how these stories are written. Men with unrequited feelings are often the main characters of stories, so audiences are meant to easily sympathize with him. Or, if a man loves the main heroine and she doesn’t love him back, he’s often the clear villain, so audiences are meant to hate him—and do, with pleasure. Women with unrequited feelings, meanwhile, are often meant to be sympathetic and the source of conflict simultaneously, but since the story isn’t told from her perspective, and since she’s taking away from the happiness of the protagonists, she’s seen as an annoying obstacle rather than a woman whose own happiness is being taken away from, too. Rather than looking at the tragedy of the whole situation, it’s far simpler to pin her down as the problem. Without her, the main couple would be happy!

Probably just like how Gastion’s feelings aren’t taken into account: his feelings are unrequited and thus he’s talking away from other people’s happiness when he was never entitled to said happiness in the first place. This isn’t sexism: this is basic writing.

In this way, women are constantly pitted against other women in stories, so is it really so odd for audiences to do the same? With DARLING in the FRANXX, so much of the defense for Ichigo becomes an attack against Zero Two, because that’s what we’re all used to. This woman gets in the way, but maybe she’s actually better for the protagonist anyway, because the main girl is even worse!

Lady, most male centered shows pit men against men, even in romantic settings where the man has to fight for the love of the woman he loves. It’s because people are hostile to outside points of view. Again: not sexism.

And that’s just it: nobody has to like Ichigo, or Zero Two, or Hiro, or anyone, but there’s nothing at all wrong with conflict in a story. That’s what makes a story actually a story! To use the words of Robert McKee, a story without conflict is nothing more than a daydream. It’s not bad for characters to do bad things that are portrayed as bad, and with Ichigo, her behavior is not presented as rosy and good and righteous. She’s a teenage girl messing up, and, sure, it’s frustrating, but that doesn’t really justify the level of demonization I’ve seen against her!

But your problem comes from not understanding WHY Ichigo is so hated. Disregarding Zero two’s feelings is fine, it’s when she disregarded Hiro’s feelings is when there was a problem. Just like when Fukuro threw a hissy fit back in Episode 11: Ichigo was being selfish and not listening to the feelings of the person she supposedly loves. Except unlike Fukuro whose actions didn’t have long standing consequences: Ichigo has done some long term damage to both Zero Two and Ichigo. She also showed terrible leadership skills here, ignoring Goro and Kokoro’s words on the matter and opening hurting her best duo. Just as well: She put a known rebel under house arrest. And finally: she prevented Hiro from making up with Zero Two while she was leaving, kissed him against his will, confessed while he was deeply heartbroken and tried to replace Zero Two with herself which puts all her actions in a new light.

I guarantee you that if she were a man, Ichigo would get the same hate. (Well, probably more actually.)

marshmallowgoop: So, here’s the thing. DARLING in the FRANXX has giant robots—and I even stated (foolishly) early on that it “wasn’t aiming to be a soap opera”—but I gotta be real: DARLING in the FRANXX is, more than anything else, a romance. And one thing romance stories can’t get enough of is love triangles. And with a love triangle, it seems somebody just has to be set up as the “loser.” Their love is unrequited. They “get in the way” of the story’s main couple. And when that person is a woman? She tends to get ragged on. Hard. And it… doesn’t sit too well with me. Because when that person is a man? He doesn’t get nearly the same treatment. For example, I’ve seen the comparison of Ichigo to Gaston from Disney’s version of Beauty and the Beast. Regardless of how apt this comparison is, though, there’s a massive difference between how Gaston is regarded by audiences and how Ichigo is. No matter how terrible Gaston is, he’s beloved for his awfulness. Ichigo, meanwhile, is called “Bitchigo” and considered the Worst Thing Ever. Of course, perhaps this comparison is completely unfair; Gaston is clearly set up to be the villain of the story, whereas Ichigo is established as a friend and comrade. Gaston is supposed to be the Worst Thing Ever, but Ichigo is not. And I recognize, too, that the situation is complicated. If a man does find himself in a position of unrequited love, he’s often not the one “getting in the way” of the central romance unless he’s unarguably the villain; rather, he’s often the main character, and the romance where he’s “getting in the way” isn’t the heart of the story. Naruto, for a classic example, begins with the title character crushing hard on Sakura, but she only has eyes for Sasuke. Sakura/Sasuke isn’t the main point of the story, though, so while Naruto certainly receives his fair share of hate, his place in this love triangle isn’t a huge part of that. So, perhaps a lot of the issue lies in how these stories are written. Men with unrequited feelings are often the main characters of stories, so audiences are meant to easily sympathize with him. Or, if a man loves the main heroine and she doesn’t love him back, he’s often the clear villain, so audiences are meant to hate him—and do, with pleasure. Women with unrequited feelings, meanwhile, are often meant to be sympathetic and the source of conflict simultaneously, but since the story isn’t told from her perspective, and since she’s taking away from the happiness of the protagonists, she’s seen as an annoying obstacle rather than a woman whose own happiness is being taken away from, too. Rather than looking at the tragedy of the whole situation, it’s far simpler to pin her down as the problem. Without her, the main couple would be happy! In this way, women are constantly pitted against other women in stories, so is it really so odd for audiences to do the same? With DARLING in the FRANXX, so much of the defense for Ichigo becomes an attack against Zero Two, because that’s what we’re all used to. This woman gets in the way, but maybe she’s actually better for the protagonist anyway, because the main girl is even worse! But the thing is… with DARLING in the FRANXX, I think the point is that everyone is at fault. Nobody is communicating well. Perhaps some characters are more at fault than others, but is that really so terrible? And that’s just it: nobody has to like Ichigo, or Zero Two, or Hiro, or anyone, but there’s nothing at all wrong with conflict in a story. That’s what makes a story actually a story! To use the words of Robert McKee, a story without conflict is nothing more than a daydream. It’s not bad for characters to do bad things that are portrayed as bad, and with Ichigo, her behavior is not presented as rosy and good and righteous. She’s a teenage girl messing up, and, sure, it’s frustrating, but that doesn’t really justify the level of demonization I’ve seen against her! So, TLDR: it’s complicated. On the one hand, I’m tired of seeing women pitted against each other in stories, but on the other hand, I do think DARLING in the FRANXX is trying to portray the situation exactly as it is: tragic for everyone involved, because everyone is messing up. I am both upset with Ichigo and feel sorry for her at once, just like I feel for Zero Two and Hiro. So, TLDR: it’s complicated. On the one hand, I’m tired of seeing women pitted against each other in stories, but on the other hand, I do think DARLING in the FRANXX is trying to portray the situation exactly as it is: tragic for everyone involved, because everyone is messing up. I am both upset with Ichigo and feel sorry for her at once, just like I feel for Zero Two and Hiro

And I’m tired of hearing “sexism!” when it doesn’t fit.

