This transcript has been automatically generated and may not be 100% accurate.

... were the cheaters ... actually ... we do it ... well enough to feel good about ourselves ... Duke University been a real economist and Ariel is joining us here to talk about his new book ... destined to be a bestseller dislike the other two ... thanks for joining us can do so ... like I said before we start I bet you a karaoke that was the Secretary you're singing Elvis analysts the idea was that was my boss that they want or are we happy to believe in Peru ... and then at the same I liabilities of great but I I remember your performance to a fantastic not to mention your investment because within the advance was dancing drinking anyway ... but let let's move on here but ... um ... now what's passing by your booklet stop talking about why I would Univeristy Chicago ... right ... and there's this thought that ... people she ... everybody cheats a little things and diet etc ... and ... said maybe that the rational expectations ... theory from UC would say that we all she rational ... right ... and you argue in your book ... that's not true ... so what's the rational perspective if it came from but getting back to the famous the Chicago climate ... than the rational perspective says ... that when you could put the co ax you think of the cost and benefit the sick yourself what would stand to gain by cheating what placed into Drew's probe into being caught sight of punishment than so ... so I walk around the studio and I should ask myself ... what can I steal without ... being caught what's a probe into what it's worth it and ... I can write a rational cost benefit analysis he added ... um ago it was a recent study that that the death penalty ... and said dude this penalties change if a video for this happening when those states ... it's hard to ... tell because the data is not that good but it doesn't look that much evidence for that ... none of the views of the punishment ... the fact that people don't consider the punishment to tell you something ... so only ... the task itself when people commit crimes how much we think about the need to ... know people in general just don't think that don't go in I'll ask you ... then ... you have a Texan was driving ... I don't ride of your day to ... day Opus II landscape that I when this question will the internet that the navigation only if you can see I've been reading many army and ... the gospel of having unprotected sex couples keep watching with Steve that ... you know people just don't think known to many inclined it's the same thing when meekly to put a good cry we don't think don't really when you have which is even more testing you talk about ... the so-called fudge factor in its ... south end and that's a different note you're actually we cheap by what you call fudge factor that I felt so trying to defeat the trying to ... think that with all this wonderful people in maintaining the image of that that of that pride in the office of those wonderful people ... we tried to benefit ... from being the songs the stuff that ... economic summit ... in what happens is you could say you can do one of the of the kind of well you either on the slow U shaped ... contact you could really with the book ... is located just I think you can still think of herself as a bonus cuts ... if you slide your actual receipts ... in this account the need to do something small ... and the overhang or not ... this thing a pen and the extra expense reports on all those things we can do and we don't have to ... pay a price symptoms of thinking willful self is different people ... can find that their ability ... to act badly in quickly rationalizing continue would still find human beings ... is incredibly pervasive and it influences the loss of so you can behave as you mentioned his self image right it's very important we maintain a high self image ... and so for instance when you're given the opportunity cheap ... that ... you do so in a way that it doesn't violate that selfish November and inched up to us about the you have a blind ... collaborated working on some of your experiment so this was empathic ... a taxi routes that the caps take that twenty is really sick with this was and is the ... full for the road ... that and it's a tough agreed upon at ... least awesome to call played into it usually about ... a twenty five sequence a bit small ... and we got one of the line collaborate on that ... and see it all and she basically asked him to operate ... basin to meet the new Senate smuggling venture would insist all the time ... that we had the present it looked as though it's possible that but could see and she uses those same ... thing ... and what happened ... there but a cab drivers have no expectations of the party would be paid ... but for the fun that the woman who was blind deaf cheap to do next ... the regular woman got ... to to go was like trying to get on EBay Records has an incentive if he thinks the first in the cab doesn't know which way to go to take along remote that's right and what's interesting if you have a blind person can theoretically he could take a long reliever Noda likely even longer but in fact what happens is people almost like you're at the kit the daylight as it is it because it's reflecting on themselves ... so so so what ... is it true that the moment some of these blowing all the sudden you think yourself if I'm taking advantage of them it's really clear that the key advantage I think this ... fund to do is very different when ... you stand there on somebody who you know cannot protect themselves ... Elfers on the covers much more ... much more Korea ... and a full people became older than the Whitney came on this news ... that the YouTube the fastest route to her but the kind of been me to be for the got to the individual extra ... special nice to ... well that's the nice pop tracking ... and we choose regular people but occasionally we try to actually be extra extra careful ... now ... the same deals being careful is actually an incredibly important sums up when one experiment that ... we find that when we get people to sign on it ... the sun on the code before the put the feel of the contest ... also Sunday become more on that in the whole text place this Sunday on the corner The and it's the ... it's all the right shooting is being done ... but the to sign up front what he does it change your mind that the Bible to speak and then you become more on this but then got into any new sign something is a verification that doesn't change of mindset and because of the people cheat to a height of the great it's it's kind of fasting in any mention the book of course ... I Ras ... as for this the sign at the bottom ... right and there it is he cheating in taxes before he got it right that that now ... you actually contacted the IRS the I'd try that either cause I was that a solicitor cannot be funny funny people signed the top they don't in a sign the book on the cheek while we changed I was full ... so the nice people of the IRS said ... Conti Ikon Yukon Sunday beginning it's it's you ... because you need to sign to bow to find ... sustenance signed whites side of the top ... for my incident convention inside and sort the patient ... and they said it's too confusing for now ... if you've seen the Iris for me to the the the music that they find that the confusing given everything else ... but then we came up with them in unison while the fifth last item on the tax will ... ask people when you donate twenty five dollars to task force to fight corruption ... in the city people sign suggested that ... not only within refinance the onthe on morality they would put money down maybe get get them to the immobile on August ... and yes when asked when the gainers in the window for a new window I'm still don't want they will get it but I did the British government has opened an office fo behave Economics ... an ... eye on the on the day because the civil service ... and the Office experiments with this that this is been one of the most successful ... what's the sense ... British people in at the same night Idol spin off your neighbors have already paid ... the tax cuts ... and that was the biggest effect in getting people to pay ... the taxes on a ... huge thing to the Daily IRS still still so what to do ... we did with that with with the insurance ... company ... so we got them into his company to the insurance company it since people are led to ... the Aston people come in the books and owed almost ... we see that they let the Bastille a total of the odometer on the card debt to the upcoming months ago ... you want to make the Number lowest numbers Heidi pay high opinion of the numbers though so ... we need to simple thing some people some of the top ... and until that don't look to ... some people so they don't want the names of the book of the standard one ... what the fund was the difference of about twenty four hundred months ... to signing for us ... get people to report more driving this case like this cheating ... but twenty four hundred and ... eight miles ... no we don't like people being held today all because we couldn't go into Southern's because the doctors but that ... we know that he's a nice small win ... in the defense is ... destined to be people to be slightly more conscientious of what to do is ... get people to be more muted especially about rationalizing things and and the clever ways in which we do it ... aam cheating ... golf ... and ... let's let's talk about golf Michigan BBBB ability really to ... see you ... I guess remove ourselves ... from the act of cheating ur come up with with some sort of offer me a ... so some golf is a fantastic affection for most of things in society suffers from local business people play golf ... but more along the Gulf is that ... these games to play games to sell ... their often people just don't supervise you don't know ... if the committee consists of much like much things in this this when ... nobody's supervising all the time ... it ... could really kept track people doing well for the one day so this is a study about how people what people say ... the deal ... now we ask people what they do with is a problem so the US people what other people do that because of that that reflect many either the cheap but it had nothing but rather the been doing a bit long the batter ... so ... the not so for example that you want to move the ball by fortunes ... the three ways you can do it you can pick it up ... and took place in four inches on ... that makes you feel incredibly delivered to ... the people just ... nobody's you really feel like this the awful this is the good and bad self image and that could also be a major conduit is like not embezzling money go ... there's another version ... in which you kick the ball ill that we do it ... because I will go around the new kick a little bit ago and much much more acceptance ... the one that people find the most acceptable is to keep it to the club ... now ... he needed still has the club at the top and ... then we find economics parlance is well is that the more steps to me is the between knew when the final all due to cheating ... if we cheat ... through haven't expense people ... stock options this is a good time to talk about it you've agreed line in your book about ... the more we move toward a cashless society that becomes a problem if ... you mention the cups and dollar bills you put a free free as it pursues a Pepsi cans right ... and ... if people don't steal the dollar bills if they're sitting there Patel to steal ... a bottle pop and theoretically you can just ... gonna take a dollar to another subject him to sum it up this book it people go really really will enjoy it ... talk about willpower when it comes to Chino after resist and willpower ... to resist eating it it's like a muscle he gets exhausted right ... and ... I guess ... ok ... dead grandmothers ... not ... so Universe's professes we we all know that the capital of the end of the CBS to visit the loss of lovely grandmother stop ... Scott died ... a day yesterday AEO it's really sad eyes around around in turns around finals CSN ... and when you go to the data about the who's that grandmothers actually die churns up it's nice but both me about the students with no doing well ... in the Cup is supported by a factor in the in thing yes to the town and this is really sad right in the field of close with your expenses and invest it before so is that the students won all going well ... of communicating the so the grandmothers in the grandmothers aunties stops ... by to buy distressed if this did not doing that well so like ... a commendable consistent stop communicating with the grandmothers Millwood and the facility and it didn't please like Greece finals your distress appoint exam signs yet and he just I knew Brady and I can ... be up and so so what what's the fun of depletion in general these that the diocese build the difference in your little or no and ... then his ... cookies and muffins and Facebook and get the whole day you dealing with all kind of impatient toward the end of the semester is becoming ... hard because ... people have to crunch though the study didn't give up the other tempting stuff ... in the position actually ... weakens the moral books ... to and we knew it was the case and we deeply people we get them to exercise self control ... of the would be put in a situation to have attested to the cheek to a much higher degree ... sun an overstated the sea behavior is understandable ... but the students write ... about them ... the sink with the we can understand why it happens more so with that in the tone ... of cause the meeting will coordinate the Masonic skills ... I also think that the mall ... fight those who do we cut and a much more likely to basically ... a guide to the professor identity ... and bring it back a course to greet net nasties regular folks ... who are dying for instance break it he added I didn't ... it's it's probably a lot easier maybe to stick to die ... earlier today Zynga mauling that the surface enabling you still have willpower easy to do so within a little hard ... all kinds of things to mention all kinds of business politics that have been crunched up ... I think about maybe the end of the quilt a report ... in which people have to with a pocket of the finish at ... one time what happens in this crunch time when people have to spend up to find the middle of the rewards of salt when people be more ... likely ... to be slightly these on the side of this condition because the temptation of the keys higher in divinity to resistance and patients though resisting every every opportunity you have to cheat ... you know you exercise that will power muscle and in areas where will your and then you just I just can't I've just gotten cut a corner eventually ... EKDKQ gotta cut one quarter at the end of this elaborately we with that covered up the CD was like one or two in the morning and ... we were at all yet so I do things the building with a business with his eyes can say is you mention it to the degree ... of knowing this that willpower is a muscle if you really need to relax ... yes so if you really knew just ... what all he got just go crazy ... you actually have some tips about ... how that kind of ... yourself in and of but tend to self love that they get that old if the patient build up the sweetness ... and a new show little or no snacks and candy ... go to the mall maybe add egg and don't shop the knowing look everything you want to buy BT don't realize is resisting this and then enjoy the failure of the magnificent white distilled lethal related topic in this slippery slope you talk about right ... so ... willpower is one thing he starts cheap morning when you start cheating on things ... ATU it builds on itself will be a ... aam and ... one thing the kind of ... this puts us to get the picture frame of mind are really to be to be kinda cheap you mention here is wearing counterfeit some of us ... that this ... that ... sets a puzzle that that that that that guy they the in addition to the book and experiments of also interviewed some beachy so it's tough to beat is above what happened and what what the bean to ... the Germans ... and almost one of them ... tell you the story of slippery slope with one small step ... that once that ... one person told me that the fond of the Beacon going to become consult both the company whose NCI ... and the contagion big number we zero in everybody seemed to be happier with that the volatility exactly new but the but it was but the ... but what to do it one time it's hard to do it again it's hard to do it again and ... this can be one step ... in the new ... there ... it can fall off ... then we find the same thing about the extent that stuff ... the match and its sequence in a long sequence of impatience ... but the fine is to put on the Greek people start eating until that time balancing being the ... to the will that be good to know that ... it's some point the doctor people switch ... the stock hitting all the time ... to make all these wonder what the hell ... and what of the bag to know when to spot a Diana knew the bluffing is and what the hell stop makes money ... on stuff next week with the detail of the country ... now ... what we did was we these experiments ... there we went into a nice design a quilt coking ... handbags ... and sunglasses to give the slopes of the merchandise ... in the US women to wear the sunglasses on campus and some tax ... in half of the we told them they would ... be old and have them call them they will say ... they're all real the all male we we do what you would think that ... and then once the fish walking on campus with ECB came back and listen before difficult the bluffs is ... pleased to the stock's ... been lucky so was the meat you know that the males of achieving more ... but what happened was that the women who were in the one that the boss will think ... started doing it in the stock and cheating ... soon ... the thing that's basically the deal self image ... if you wearing something fake especially for something central in fashionable the content of the Google and so on ... it's a quantum to my that you are not the truthful person ... and if you know the truth the person taking the next step ... of being truthful ... is actually ... a much easier ... that ... the one other thing is that when it until reading the interest in religion ... if you think about it religion from a non religious perspective ... of a mechanism that of trying to help ... deal with the human nature that I can help us how we deal with society right buffer that ... rules that would help us to bet that with the Celts and we got the people ... said interest in the company could fetch ... if you think about it I actually went to the put some Catholic priests to meet the ... people of the Catholic confession is in all things to happen to to really strange Avio ... because if you can confess and that the was all ... should teach people ... should be to just on the way to confession to realize that I we can go to purgatory ... so that something show ... issuing confession to basically to us that one is after you've finished goods that ... you feel good about this ... people both reported on fighting the drive home and sell it ... but also we find decreased cheating ... but also ... a confession stops the what the hell ... can be funny customers to use but you know that ... he stopped and another that some point we stop you and get a chance to confess to say what you've done badly in asking forgiveness ... cheating goes down ... dramatically ... I think it's one of those things that social scientists in society in the knowledge ... that you don't from religion ... Wigan have fallen the soprano sch ... one we think about how we connection unit since above ... what would happen if we had a confession like mechanism for ... politicians bankers and you can just ... pay continue down the road ... and ... the other thing we do not own the result of this year is was trying to figure out who has a truck the Catholic so the Jews ... if you think about these two religions came up with no different conclusion all mechanisms to halt the view within fashion week ... the new pages ... Catholicism use this in to ... the side when you want to do it and everybody does an on line in Judaism ... the deals that only comes one time of the year your Quinton of wicked Everybody dude in the same ... white which one of those is what should we keep the discussion of the Center on now ... and how a bomb is a social call the nation ... by the body due to the to do to get to that of the dances yet but the ... results to come can we find out I'll have Another bike and I just wonder ... if ... yet we get we get the Jewish open the book is just clearing sending you mention social dimension Tuesday at reminders to yourself honest ... and remember that the company and the guy goes in the rubble ... strewn rabbi you wouldn't believe what happened ... last week a was in Sydney Melbourne somebody stolen bicycle Fox ... and The Robinson uses terrible beast is off like abilities is having a thirty one ... next week ... Qantas and able to sit in the front row ... and as an Eagle over the ten commandments tongue around Connecticut everybody in the US in when we get the doll should help stilts and Sealed Khan who can guide you know that to go ... the guys were excited but suggested the Rob Lazy compass Avago ... Singh the front row to run in the ten commandments ... at the end of the services he goes to the Robinson rabbi you wind ... it looks like a chopped ... the ball with ... the moment we got to dial Chanel commit adultery ... I remembered when it's my ... and the logic here but great ... is that while this may have really just remind ... what did people believe what going to ... be tons of people think very differently about that all morality and indeed be a ... great ... day and thank you so much for joining us on the big interview ... this book ... check it out it's great summer reading