Vandroiy



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LegendaryActivity: 1036Merit: 1001 Re: [ANN] Introducing LoveBitcoins.org  Driving 1 MILLION Bitcoin Users in 2012 December 04, 2011, 08:17:12 PM #42 A lot of homes may be broken into, but does this exceed the amount of infections of computers? I care a lot for my security, yet it has been breached three times already. The house I live in, though, has never been broken into. I doubt this is a rare and exceptional case.



They may lose their wallet password, but the provider can then go the usual recovery way and silently watch whether nobody else claims to be the owner (or the owner's personal information is known), then refund. On hacked accounts, withdraw limits and sanity checks help prevent disaster. But there is no helping someone whose private keys for BTC have leaked.



I know the "personal identity" thing is not a geek's preferred way, but the average person actually likes this. Sure, everybody should be free to store the coins himself, but I wouldn't try to force it onto people.

BitPay Business Solutions



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Hero MemberActivity: 742Merit: 500 Re: [ANN] Introducing LoveBitcoins.org  Driving 1 MILLION Bitcoin Users in 2012 December 04, 2011, 09:34:51 PM

Last edit: December 04, 2011, 10:52:09 PM by Bit-pay Merchant Solutions #47 Quote from: jav on December 04, 2011, 09:17:13 PM Cool project!



So let's go with 1.5%. Keep in mind though, that you probably have to do this on both sides of the transaction: Customer with USD -> Bitcoin -> Bitcoin transfer -> Bitcoin -> Merchant with USD. You are already at 3% there - not a lot of room to work with. Hopefully this can be improved by more competition between exchanges (lower fees) and more day traders (lower spread) over time.



Jan, the problem is the Buyer is always paying this 1.5% fee anyway to pay with bitcoins. He can put $100 into gox, but he will pay the same percentage whether he buys all at once, or in small increments as he needs them. the cost to the buyer is the same. By keeping FIAT, the buyer at least maintains his purchasing power.



I should add that



This will get better as the spreads tighten and volume improves. One thing that is badly needed is a consolidated Level II market depth, to put all the exchanges into one table, and route the order to get the best price.



Jan, the problem is the Buyer is always paying this 1.5% fee anyway to pay with bitcoins. He can put $100 into gox, but he will pay the same percentage whether he buys all at once, or in small increments as he needs them. the cost to the buyer is the same. By keeping FIAT, the buyer at least maintains his purchasing power.I should add that https://intersango.com charges NO fees to buy or sell. ACH and SEPA are also free for deposits and withdrawals.This will get better as the spreads tighten and volume improves. One thing that is badly needed is a consolidated Level II market depth, to put all the exchanges into one table, and route the order to get the best price.



https://bitpay.com



Does your website accept bitcoins? BitPay : The World Leader in Bitcoin Business SolutionsDoeswebsite accept bitcoins?

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LegendaryActivity: 1092Merit: 1000 Re: [ANN] Introducing LoveBitcoins.org  Driving 1 MILLION Bitcoin Users in 2012 December 05, 2011, 02:53:21 AM #53 Quote from: Bit-pay Merchant Solutions on December 05, 2011, 02:36:33 AM Quote from: cunicula on December 05, 2011, 02:19:59 AM







Promoting bitcoin meets paypal-wallet services. Yes. Promoting bitcoin itself. Not really.

Millions of people use PayPal. Let's get them to try our thing.

Millions of people use PayPal. Let's get them to try our thing.

I've only dabbled with PayPal a while ago - but as I see it, for the average consumer, Bitcoin can't compete on Fees yet.

(paypal you pay each transaction, but getting your money into paypal is cheap..

whereas bitcoin you easily pay 5% or more depending on where you are to get your money into it in the first place)



Also - I hear paypal allows person to person payments.



So..unless they sell things for bitcoins or earn in bitcoins, they're effectively paying more to use bitcoins than they would using PayPal - so what exactly is the angle here that will sell the idea of Bitcoin to the average person?



That they can send amounts equivalent to a few cents?

The 'political' aspects of avoiding banks or corporations which could freeze your money? (A valid concern - but 'occupy' crowd aside, it's probably not high on the agenda of most people)





edit: It rather seems to me that this is the 'elephant in the room' when it comes to Bitcoin. It's nice and all as far as easy setup for merchants & people who want to set up donations - but the *effective* Fees when you consider getting it in and out of your local currency are very high with Bitcoin.

Sure -if you do a very large deposit via wire-transfer etc, the fee becomes a small percentage - but then you're holding a large amount of BTC and can get screwed by the volatility.







I've only dabbled with PayPal a while ago - but as I see it, for the average consumer, Bitcoin can't compete on Fees yet.(paypal you pay each transaction, but getting your money into paypal is cheap..whereas bitcoin you easily pay 5% or more depending on where you are to get your money into it in the first place)Also - I hear paypal allows person to person payments.So..unless they sell things for bitcoins or earn in bitcoins, they're effectively paying more to use bitcoins than they would using PayPal - so what exactly is the angle here that will sell the idea of Bitcoin to the average person?That they can send amounts equivalent to a few cents?The 'political' aspects of avoiding banks or corporations which could freeze your money? (A valid concern - but 'occupy' crowd aside, it's probably not high on the agenda of most people)edit: It rather seems to me that this is the 'elephant in the room' when it comes to Bitcoin. It's nice and all as far as easy setup for merchants & people who want to set up donations - but the *effective* Fees when you consider getting it in and out of your local currency are very high with Bitcoin.Sure -if you do a very large deposit via wire-transfer etc, the fee becomes a small percentage - but then you're holding a large amount of BTC and can get screwed by the volatility. @electricwings BM-GtyD5exuDJ2kvEbr41XchkC8x9hPxdFd

julz



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LegendaryActivity: 1092Merit: 1000 Re: [ANN] Introducing LoveBitcoins.org  Driving 1 MILLION Bitcoin Users in 2012 December 05, 2011, 03:33:41 AM #55 Quote from: edd on December 05, 2011, 03:03:29 AM Quote from: julz on December 05, 2011, 02:53:21 AM Quote from: Bit-pay Merchant Solutions on December 05, 2011, 02:36:33 AM Quote from: cunicula on December 05, 2011, 02:19:59 AM







Promoting bitcoin meets paypal-wallet services. Yes. Promoting bitcoin itself. Not really.

Millions of people use PayPal. Let's get them to try our thing.

Millions of people use PayPal. Let's get them to try our thing.

I've only dabbled with PayPal a while ago - but as I see it, for the average consumer, Bitcoin can't compete on Fees yet.

(paypal you pay each transaction, but getting your money into paypal is cheap..

whereas bitcoin you easily pay 5% or more depending on where you are to get your money into it in the first place)



Also - I hear paypal allows person to person payments.



So..unless they sell things for bitcoins or earn in bitcoins, they're effectively paying more to use bitcoins than they would using PayPal - so what exactly is the angle here that will sell the idea of Bitcoin to the average person?



That they can send amounts equivalent to a few cents?

The 'political' aspects of avoiding banks or corporations which could freeze your money? (A valid concern - but 'occupy' crowd aside, it's probably not high on the agenda of most people)



I've only dabbled with PayPal a while ago - but as I see it, for the average consumer, Bitcoin can't compete on Fees yet.(paypal you pay each transaction, but getting your money into paypal is cheap..whereas bitcoin you easily pay 5% or more depending on where you are to get your money into it in the first place)Also - I hear paypal allows person to person payments.So..unless they sell things for bitcoins or earn in bitcoins, they're effectively paying more to use bitcoins than they would using PayPal - so what exactly is the angle here that will sell the idea of Bitcoin to the average person?That they can send amounts equivalent to a few cents?The 'political' aspects of avoiding banks or corporations which could freeze your money? (A valid concern - but 'occupy' crowd aside, it's probably not high on the agenda of most people)

PayPal's fee structure.



PayPal charges fees for every transaction except deposits into your PayPal account and some withdrawals.



Sending money to anyone via PayPal incurs a fee, the only question is who pays it.

PayPal charges fees fortransaction except deposits into your PayPal account and some withdrawals.Sending money tovia PayPal incurs a fee, the only question is who pays it.

But if I lose 5% for my initial Bitcoin purchase (I've paid more than that in the past by the way!) - what's the difference between being hit up front like that, or getting free initial deposit with PayPal and then hit with a fee for every purchase? Actually.. the difference is you come out ahead with paypal because it's less than 5% right?



I also pay another 5% or more if I want to get my Bitcoins out.



edit: Note, I'm a bitcoin supporter - but let's be honest about it's advantages and not bullshit about it's weaknesses. I'm not saying Bitcoin won't have an advantage over paypal down the track - I just don't see it right now in terms of cost, so I'm wondering why the average consumer will see it.





But if I lose 5% for my initial Bitcoin purchase (I've paid more than that in the past by the way!) - what's the difference between being hit up front like that, or getting free initial deposit with PayPal and then hit with a fee for every purchase? Actually.. the difference is you come out ahead with paypal because it's less than 5% right?I also pay another 5% or more if I want to get my Bitcoins out.edit: Note, I'm a bitcoin supporter - but let's be honest about it's advantages and not bullshit about it's weaknesses. I'm not saying Bitcoin won't have an advantage over paypal down the track - I just don't see it right now in terms of cost, so I'm wondering why the average consumer will see it. @electricwings BM-GtyD5exuDJ2kvEbr41XchkC8x9hPxdFd