We can all agree that Sir George Martin was a genius producer. What is trickier to agree is what exactly the role of a producer is.

TV series Soundbreaking speaks to current producers and musicians to analyse the role of a producer in creating classic albums, this new series covering the works of Sir George Martin, Dr Dre, and Nigel Godrich.

The long-term Radiohead and Beck producer spoke to Toby Earle about his experiences in the studio and his work with Radiohead. Also, underpants.

Toby Earle: When you’re at a dinner party and someone asks you what you do, how do you describe it? Do they understand or do they nod like they do?

Nigel Godrich: Actually, that’s a conversation I try and avoid, for the simple reason nobody understands. I’ve watched some of the series and I was incredibly relived that someone has gone to the trouble to explain what this role is. It’s such a difficult thing to explain.

If pushed, the analogy would be with a film director; you have the control and the interface through technology of making a record. You have that vision and, depending on what kind of producer you are, you’re the one who steers the ship and puts it all together.

In the first episode it’s a broad overview of genres. With your back catalogue are some genres easier or harder to produce?

I can only speak for myself and what the show illustrates is how much music has been made and how different the styles are, in the ways there were made. It’s so expansive, the way you can make a record. I have my way of looking at things, my knowledge and technical knowledge, so it’s equally difficult I would say. Or equally easy.

When things are going well, you’re at a running pace and the sign of something good is when you look back and can’t believe what you’ve done. If you can turn off that bit of your brain that is conscious and move forwards in a very creative space, and be able to hear what you’ve done and consider what it might seem like from the outside, then you’ve done your job.

There’s a great line from Sir Elton John in the first episode where he mentions that part of the role of producer is hearing a motif, maybe one that’s half-discarded, which has potential…

When he said that, I thought it was very nice somebody is saying something I recognise. It’s an emotional reaction to what’s happening in the room. Stuff flows out of really talented musicians all the time and they have no idea what’s going on, so you’re an editor.

I don’t think people realise how much music is written in the studio, especially with a band like Radiohead. They’re rightly famous for their amazing live shows and people say, ‘Why don’t they do it like that?’. The truth is that music didn’t exist before we went into the studio and went through that process. Things are half-formed and they become concrete in that process of recording.

Some things take more time than others, depending on the set up with that particular artist or where they are in the process. Part of the skill is understanding what’s correct and appropriate at the time, but it’s different for me because I have very long relationships with people that have developed. To work for twenty years with the same people means that creative process becomes more involved and harder to define.

Music in London 2016: The year’s biggest gigs 10 show all Music in London 2016: The year’s biggest gigs 1/10 The Libertines The O2 30 January 2016 30 January 2016 Pete, Carl and co have been out and about a fair bit since the release of their first album in 11 years, Anthems For Doomed Youth. But catching them live is still a special experience, whatever state they turn up in on the night. Pete, Carl and co have been out and about a fair bit since the release of their first album in 11 years, Anthems For Doomed Youth. But catching them live is still a special experience, whatever state they turn up in on the night. The Libertines tickets JOSE JORDAN/AFP/Getty Images 2/10 Foals Wembley 16 February 2016 16 February 2016 This Oxford-formed band are growing their fanbase by the day thanks to a style that combines indie with touches of punk and funk. This gig — part of their very first UK tour — will be the band’s biggest to date, and comes with the added bonus of Everything Everything supporting. This Oxford-formed band are growing their fanbase by the day thanks to a style that combines indie with touches of punk and funk. This gig — part of their very first UK tour — will be the band’s biggest to date, and comes with the added bonus of Everything Everything supporting. Foals tickets Warner Bros 3/10 Adele The O2 15, 16, 18, 19, 21, 22 March and 4, 5 April 2016 15, 16, 18, 19, 21, 22 March and 4, 5 April 2016 She needs no introduction, and judging by the chaos that ensued when tickets for this tour were released, she needs no help selling seats either. She will play eight dates at the O2 as part of her tour, which also takes in Birmingham, Manchester, Glasgow, Belfast and Dublin as well as cities across Europe. She needs no introduction, and judging by the chaos that ensued when tickets for this tour were released, she needs no help selling seats either. She will play eight dates at the O2 as part of her tour, which also takes in Birmingham, Manchester, Glasgow, Belfast and Dublin as well as cities across Europe. Adele tickets Kevin Winter/Getty Images 4/10 Wolf Alice The Forum 26, 28 March 2016 26, 28 March 2016 Playing in Kentish Town is something of a homecoming for this north London band who have won a Mercury Prize nomination for their debut album My Love Is Cool. Playing in Kentish Town is something of a homecoming for this north London band who have won a Mercury Prize nomination for their debut album My Love Is Cool. Wolf Alice tickets Jenn Five 5/10 Muse The O2 3, 11, 12, 14, 15 April 2016 3, 11, 12, 14, 15 April 2016 Muse know how to pack both energy and immense theatrics into a show, and this run of five nights at the O2 will be no different. The set-up will be quite something in itself — the band will perform in the round, on a stage shaped “like a double-headed arrow” and we hear the set will also feature “a whole swarm of drones”. Muse know how to pack both energy and immense theatrics into a show, and this run of five nights at the O2 will be no different. The set-up will be quite something in itself — the band will perform in the round, on a stage shaped “like a double-headed arrow” and we hear the set will also feature “a whole swarm of drones”. Muse tickets 6/10 AC/DC Olympic Stadium 4 June 2016 4 June 2016 As if a rare UK stadium gig from AC/DC wasn’t exciting enough, this will be the first one at Stratford’s stadium once it completes being reconfigured after the 2012 games. The gig is part of the Back In Black performers’ Rock or Bust World Tour and is followed by a date in Manchester on June 9. As if a rare UK stadium gig from AC/DC wasn’t exciting enough, this will be the first one at Stratford’s stadium once it completes being reconfigured after the 2012 games. The gig is part of the Back In Black performers’ Rock or Bust World Tour and is followed by a date in Manchester on June 9. AC/DC tickets 7/10 Coldplay Wembley 15, 16, 18, 19 June 2016 15, 16, 18, 19 June 2016 Coldplay are rolling into town in June with four nights at a packed Wembley Stadium to mark new album A Head Full of Dreams. Expect Chris Martin and co to put on a characteristically impressive, energetic and atmospheric show. Coldplay are rolling into town in June with four nights at a packed Wembley Stadium to mark new album A Head Full of Dreams. Expect Chris Martin and co to put on a characteristically impressive, energetic and atmospheric show. Coldplay tickets 8/10 Rihanna Wembley 24 June 2016 24 June 2016 Rihanna will pack out Wembley as part of a tour to mark her eighth album Anti, with saucy on-stage antics a given. Less certain is whether or not she’ll be on time — she was 45mins late for a gig in Twickenham in 2013. The Weeknd will be among the singer’s support. Rihanna will pack out Wembley as part of a tour to mark her eighth album Anti, with saucy on-stage antics a given. Less certain is whether or not she’ll be on time — she was 45mins late for a gig in Twickenham in 2013. The Weeknd will be among the singer’s support. Rihanna tickets 9/10 Justin Bieber The O2 11, 12, 14, 15 October and 28, 29 November 2016 11, 12, 14, 15 October and 28, 29 November 2016 Love him or loathe him, Bieber is one of the biggest celebrities on the planet right now, and he’s laying on a suitably epic-sized world tour to match. Six nights at the O2 are backed up by three each in Birmingham and Glasgow and one in Sheffield. Love him or loathe him, Bieber is one of the biggest celebrities on the planet right now, and he’s laying on a suitably epic-sized world tour to match. Six nights at the O2 are backed up by three each in Birmingham and Glasgow and one in Sheffield. Justin Bieber tickets Kevin Winter/Getty 10/10 The Cure Wembley 2, 3 December 2016 2, 3 December 2016 The iconic English rock band, led by enigmatic frontman Robert Smith, will play Wembley as part of their first European tour since 2008. they’ll be supported by The Twilight Sad. The iconic English rock band, led by enigmatic frontman Robert Smith, will play Wembley as part of their first European tour since 2008. they’ll be supported by The Twilight Sad. The Cure tickets Theo Wargo/Getty Images 1/10 The Libertines The O2 30 January 2016 30 January 2016 Pete, Carl and co have been out and about a fair bit since the release of their first album in 11 years, Anthems For Doomed Youth. But catching them live is still a special experience, whatever state they turn up in on the night. Pete, Carl and co have been out and about a fair bit since the release of their first album in 11 years, Anthems For Doomed Youth. But catching them live is still a special experience, whatever state they turn up in on the night. The Libertines tickets JOSE JORDAN/AFP/Getty Images 2/10 Foals Wembley 16 February 2016 16 February 2016 This Oxford-formed band are growing their fanbase by the day thanks to a style that combines indie with touches of punk and funk. This gig — part of their very first UK tour — will be the band’s biggest to date, and comes with the added bonus of Everything Everything supporting. This Oxford-formed band are growing their fanbase by the day thanks to a style that combines indie with touches of punk and funk. This gig — part of their very first UK tour — will be the band’s biggest to date, and comes with the added bonus of Everything Everything supporting. Foals tickets Warner Bros 3/10 Adele The O2 15, 16, 18, 19, 21, 22 March and 4, 5 April 2016 15, 16, 18, 19, 21, 22 March and 4, 5 April 2016 She needs no introduction, and judging by the chaos that ensued when tickets for this tour were released, she needs no help selling seats either. She will play eight dates at the O2 as part of her tour, which also takes in Birmingham, Manchester, Glasgow, Belfast and Dublin as well as cities across Europe. She needs no introduction, and judging by the chaos that ensued when tickets for this tour were released, she needs no help selling seats either. She will play eight dates at the O2 as part of her tour, which also takes in Birmingham, Manchester, Glasgow, Belfast and Dublin as well as cities across Europe. Adele tickets Kevin Winter/Getty Images 4/10 Wolf Alice The Forum 26, 28 March 2016 26, 28 March 2016 Playing in Kentish Town is something of a homecoming for this north London band who have won a Mercury Prize nomination for their debut album My Love Is Cool. Playing in Kentish Town is something of a homecoming for this north London band who have won a Mercury Prize nomination for their debut album My Love Is Cool. Wolf Alice tickets Jenn Five 5/10 Muse The O2 3, 11, 12, 14, 15 April 2016 3, 11, 12, 14, 15 April 2016 Muse know how to pack both energy and immense theatrics into a show, and this run of five nights at the O2 will be no different. The set-up will be quite something in itself — the band will perform in the round, on a stage shaped “like a double-headed arrow” and we hear the set will also feature “a whole swarm of drones”. Muse know how to pack both energy and immense theatrics into a show, and this run of five nights at the O2 will be no different. The set-up will be quite something in itself — the band will perform in the round, on a stage shaped “like a double-headed arrow” and we hear the set will also feature “a whole swarm of drones”. Muse tickets 6/10 AC/DC Olympic Stadium 4 June 2016 4 June 2016 As if a rare UK stadium gig from AC/DC wasn’t exciting enough, this will be the first one at Stratford’s stadium once it completes being reconfigured after the 2012 games. The gig is part of the Back In Black performers’ Rock or Bust World Tour and is followed by a date in Manchester on June 9. As if a rare UK stadium gig from AC/DC wasn’t exciting enough, this will be the first one at Stratford’s stadium once it completes being reconfigured after the 2012 games. The gig is part of the Back In Black performers’ Rock or Bust World Tour and is followed by a date in Manchester on June 9. AC/DC tickets 7/10 Coldplay Wembley 15, 16, 18, 19 June 2016 15, 16, 18, 19 June 2016 Coldplay are rolling into town in June with four nights at a packed Wembley Stadium to mark new album A Head Full of Dreams. Expect Chris Martin and co to put on a characteristically impressive, energetic and atmospheric show. Coldplay are rolling into town in June with four nights at a packed Wembley Stadium to mark new album A Head Full of Dreams. Expect Chris Martin and co to put on a characteristically impressive, energetic and atmospheric show. Coldplay tickets 8/10 Rihanna Wembley 24 June 2016 24 June 2016 Rihanna will pack out Wembley as part of a tour to mark her eighth album Anti, with saucy on-stage antics a given. Less certain is whether or not she’ll be on time — she was 45mins late for a gig in Twickenham in 2013. The Weeknd will be among the singer’s support. Rihanna will pack out Wembley as part of a tour to mark her eighth album Anti, with saucy on-stage antics a given. Less certain is whether or not she’ll be on time — she was 45mins late for a gig in Twickenham in 2013. The Weeknd will be among the singer’s support. Rihanna tickets 9/10 Justin Bieber The O2 11, 12, 14, 15 October and 28, 29 November 2016 11, 12, 14, 15 October and 28, 29 November 2016 Love him or loathe him, Bieber is one of the biggest celebrities on the planet right now, and he’s laying on a suitably epic-sized world tour to match. Six nights at the O2 are backed up by three each in Birmingham and Glasgow and one in Sheffield. Love him or loathe him, Bieber is one of the biggest celebrities on the planet right now, and he’s laying on a suitably epic-sized world tour to match. Six nights at the O2 are backed up by three each in Birmingham and Glasgow and one in Sheffield. Justin Bieber tickets Kevin Winter/Getty 10/10 The Cure Wembley 2, 3 December 2016 2, 3 December 2016 The iconic English rock band, led by enigmatic frontman Robert Smith, will play Wembley as part of their first European tour since 2008. they’ll be supported by The Twilight Sad. The iconic English rock band, led by enigmatic frontman Robert Smith, will play Wembley as part of their first European tour since 2008. they’ll be supported by The Twilight Sad. The Cure tickets Theo Wargo/Getty Images

You mention those long-term relationships, such as with Radiohead or Beck – does it become harder to have those objective ears, to be a removed listener, the longer you have these relationships? To keep that distance the more you’re integrated into the process?

No, I think there’s definitely a wall we’re both looking over, in both directions, and it’s artificially kept in place. I’ll never cross the line and nor will they. We respect each other’s roles.

That’s not the same as thinking about a new creative direction or method – this is more a fundamental respect in a working relationship. You know to prioritise that as the basis of how you work. Over those longer relationships the trust has grown and deepened and it’s very powerful.

I can only ever have one band like Radiohead who I’ve worked with for this many years. That’s a very deep and profound relationship. The Beatles could only have ever had one George Martin; they couldn’t have switched producers halfway through their career. All that work, trust, and knowledge of each other would have been thrown out of the window and they’ve have to start again.

When I watch the programme there are parallels between Radiohead and The Beatles and Sir George and yourself, but how often are you called the Sixth Radiohead?

[laughs] I do get called that. George Martin played on The Beatles’ records, where I make noises, textures, and atmospherics. I contribute in that way. I have so much respect for Martin. He’s such an incredible innovator, who was the first to do so many things and his work still stands up today.

One part of the series which takes your breath away is when you hear the studio recordings, the flotsam and jetsam of conversation between The Beatles and the studio. It portrays how those individual components have to be absolutely right to build up the magic.

Yeah! A recording studio is a magical place. When you have the benefit of hearing what happened right before a take that you know so well, the chit-chat, your heart flutters, because it gives you a feel what it was like to be there for a second.

When I was a kid and in a band, I went into a studio and I felt the magic. I was spellbound. I knew that this is the place I wanted to be. It’s really a laboratory. There are no rules.

We are the people behind the curtain and I chose this role to be alone in a laboratory, in the middle of the night, making a mess Nigel Godrich

At the bottom of this big mountain you climb every time you try and make a record, any part of the recording only has to be right once. Then it’s down; that process can be the magic. Or the bit after can be the magic. Or the whole thing can be the magic. Or it can be a nightmare [laughs].

You must have had a few nightmares…

When it’s not fun is when you come up against barriers to the flow. There’s nothing worse than being bored or finding something that you’re doing isn’t interesting. People see thousands of buttons in the studios and hear about months spent in there, and it’s thought of as a nerdy place with spods doing indescribable technical things. But for me it’s a playground.

Is being a producer as intimate as you can be with the artist and not be inside their head, creating those lyrics and sounds?

Nobody is really aware of what’s in their head. Generally when you go in with a plot, what you get out of the other end is never what you intended. What happens in the best times in the studio, the laboratory, is that you make something you weren’t intending to or didn’t realise you could do. A lot of it is happy accidents, a lot of it is knowing how to enable happy accidents.

We can’t get into each other’s head, but we can all wear the same underwear. It’s a very intense and personal experience.

Do you think the role is given the respect it deserves?

I’ve found that it’s quite hard to explain my part and I’m happy that someone has gone to the trouble to put all of this information into Soundbreaking, this massive piece of work. It’s enormous.

I’m grateful that I can at least say, ‘Watch this’, and it’ll answer your questions. We are the people behind the curtain and I chose this role to be alone in a laboratory, in the middle of the night, making a mess. I thought it would be more fun and interesting to have the freedom to do something wrong. The public love the mythology of their artist, the wonderful and talented people who perform, and it’s our job to make it seem effortless.

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So when an album is released and conversation starts around certain songs, do you think, ‘If only you knew what happened trying to make that work…’?

Do I think that? Of course I think that [laughs]. But I don’t want to burst anyone’s bubble [laughs]. They can’t handle the truth.

At the end of a long day in the studio, do you listen to anything in the car on the way home or as you’re drifting off to sleep?

No. I can’t listen to music. I can’t sleep if there’s music on. I can’t have sex if there’s music on. My brain goes into that mode and I’m off. The only thing I listen to when I’m working is what I’m working on.

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