1. Let’s start from the beginning. What sort of training did you have before you became a type designer?

I was trained as a graphic designer at the Rietveld Academy (then still the School for Applied Arts of Amsterdam), with a specialization in type design. My main teacher, Theo Kurpershoek (1914–1998) was a painter and graphic artist (etchings, lithographs) and a self-taught typographer and calligrapher. He brought me into contact with many different views within type design and typography. He did not impose one single view on me, although at the time of my education (1963–67) the so-called ‘Swiss Typography’ was very popular.

1.1. Could you tell me about people and situations that had an important impact in the early stages of your career?

My first job was with Wim Crouwel (1967), who influenced me, not so much with his systematic approach to design as with his clear thinking and reasoning, and especially with his generosity. During my studies it was Professor Ovink of the Amsterdam Typefoundry (of the book on Atmosphere Values), who brought me into contact with Mardersteig and organized access for me to, for example, the Bibliotheca Laurenziana in Florence.

1.2 You worked with Crouwel in the same year he delivered his famous New Alphabet. But if I remember correctly you were rather critical of that design.

Wim personally asked me to put together a counter-proposal. Wim Crouwel thought at the time that the existing alphabet could be easily replaced with a set of other signs. This was all part of Modernism’s ideas about a world that could be remade: fair, socialist, international, designed, etcetera. As Wim is a very generous person, he wanted to give me a chance to make my voice heard.

1.3. Besides Crouwel, could you tell me about other designers who were important for you?

I admired Bill Dwiggins, Roger Excoffon and Georg Trump (still do). I worked together, for the firm of Dr. Ing. Rudolf Hell in Kiel, Germany, with Max Caflisch and Hermann Zapf. My views on type design differed considerably from those of Zapf at the time, and they still do. Before I went to art school Van Krimpen’s work heavily influenced me.

1.4. How does Zapf’s view of type design differ from your own?

Hermann Zapf put calligraphy first and I have always seen calligraphy as one of the many ingredients that go into a type design. In a more general sense writing supplies type design with a strong structure, without the strong taste of calligraphy. I know that writing instruments, the broad-nib and pointed and flexible pen have left indelible traces, but calligraphy so often becomes expressionistic. When I was a student I liked that as it was new. Later I thought of it as over-expressive.