Holy Lord Jesus it’s our very first SWAPCAST! And what better person to swap with than Doug Stanhope??? He swaps a lot because he’s extremely generous! Doug’s / our other guest is the MOST wonderful Olivia Grace. As you can imagine, the conversation goes many directions, including Amy kind of interviewing Steve? All recorded from a hot patio in Tucson, Arizona.

And if you want to support the pod and our production costs, buy Amy and Steve a coffee at:

ko-fi.com/amymiller

We love you!