At the suggestion of readers, the AustralianSana & Kpopalypse series is now a podcast! Listen to the first one here!

Links and websites referenced:

1:43 – article in LGTBQ Nation: “Saudi Arabia beheaded 5 men ‘proven’ to be gay under torture”

2:38 – previous episode of this series which in part discusses the Saudi Arabian concert

2:55 – Twitter thread showing Tweet from Turki Al-Sheikh, the chairman of the GEA, a Saudi Arabian government body, inviting BTS to perform

9:30 – Twitter blocklist created by BTS fans so Saudi Arabian fans can “enjoy the concert without interference”

Further reading selected by AustralianSana:

The main BTS apologist Twitter thread that claims it is not a government-sponsored event

A very “passionate” debunking of the main BTS apologist Twitter thread

Article from Seoulbeats: “K-pop and Saudi Arabia – What Lies Beneath”

Article from Bloomberg: “Saudi Arabia is using Instagram influencers to improve its image”

Transcript below, for those with not enough determination to listen to the audio, or who are struggling with our Australian accents. Thanks to an anonymous caonima for providing this!

KP: I heard you have a few things on your mind?

AS: Yeah, so I linked the thing, that’s on the bottom of that article so I’m not sure if any questions came in as a result of that. But like, I guess consider it like a special edition version

where it’s more detail has gone into this Saudi Arabia concert compared to what I briefly touched on in your last interview.

KP: Right, let’s have a look. I’ve got a couple. Someone wanted to point out that you spelled Islamophobia wrong a few times.

AS: I did. I apologize, it’s like, it’s unfortunate that a lot of the times I’m typing on my phone and if you make one spelling error a couple of times then it becomes the default autocorrect setting,

so yeah, I’ll totally cop to that and acknowledge that I fucked up the spelling, sorry.

KP: Yes, you have to reflect.

AS: I do.

KP: Hahaha, then there’s one other one that came through. Explaining the horror to the fans doesn’t seem to work, so what next? Would it be crossing the line to remix Heat with audio of someone reading Khashoggi’s last words?

AS: Yeah, it’s like the only way we’re gonna manage to get someone to care is like you take an instrumental from one of the BTS songs then dub it with the audio of the guy being murdered

and then suddenly that would actually make people LISTEN to the problem of what’s going wrong.

KP: Another question from the same person. Would it be crossing the line to photoshop Jimin smiling next to this article? And I’ll link you the article in the Skype chat.

AS: It’s like is it crossing the line or is it shock value? Because…gee, I just see the caption of like, I’m really hoping there’s not a photo of someone actually decapitated in that link. I’m not going to click it for that reason.

KP: I’ll click it for you and let you know. Give me a sec, I’ll just check it out…. No, there isn’t. There’s…that’s a still photograph and there’s no other images or videos in it.

AS: Okay, yeah, it’s like it’s so frustrating. I guess, obviously you follow me on Twitter so you would’ve seen a lot of the discourse that’s been going on in the last 24 hours and it was like one of the things I did was I went back and read the last conversation that we had and there was where I talked about at that time and one of the comments that I screenshotted and posted was basically like “see this is why everyone hates her because she goes around and spreads misinformation and if you actually did your research you would know it’s not government funded.” And it’s like, the person who is the head of the GEA which is the group organizing this festival that BTS is taking a part of, tweeted in July that he tweeted at BTS and said that he had personally invited them to attend the festival. That’s what the concert was for. This is like the head of that organization saying that he had personally invited them in his own words on his Twitter page where everyone can read it and everyone is just refusing to acknowledge it. And it’s like, it’s right there! How do you explain something that you can see with your own eyes to people who are basically deliberately keeping themselves blindfolded. It’s just the most frustrating thing in the world right now.

KP: Yeah, well, I mean obviously that’s the whole point in doing it. Obviously the Saudi guys want people to know that they invited them because that’s the whole point.

AS: Yes, endorsing their regime. But the whole argument that ARMY Twitter is taking is that “it’s not political at all and they’re just going for their fans”. And it’s like–no, it’s not. It’s like, you’ve got the guy who runs this tourism organization that is part of the government. He is the kingdom’s advisor and he is tweeting “I’m so glad BTS is coming. I invited them.” It’s political. It’s automatically political because of that and I don’t know how much clearer it can be spelled out.

KP: Oh well, probably not much, but you know, I think it’s a willful–

AS: Oh, willful ignorance, cognitive dissonance everything that you can use–

KP: Yeah, people who don’t want to believe it, so they all find a reason not to believe it.

AS: Yeah, and this is the fandom that calls itself woke and when EXO took a photo with Donald Trump and shook his hand, they were all over that. And, it’s like how do you think the people you’ve spent years bullying on Twitter the same way you claim they bully you etc. but how do you think that those people that you’ve given hell because their favorite idols were put into a political situation by their governments are going to react when they see BTS now doing something just as bad as you gave them hell for. It’s like, you don’t even know the mess that you’re about to make. But me trying to prevent that from happening is another example of why I’m such a horrible person to have in the fandom.

KP: Well, do you think, I mean, you know, I appreciate your struggle, but do you think it’s

actually going to work?

AS: No, no I don’t. I’m not completely deluded. Basically, my frustration is obviously at the fact that no matter what I do nothing is going to change, but I feel it’s like there’s like an obligation for there to be someone speaking out and I’m not the only person who is, so as much as people who are claiming that I am a pioneer of the #BTSDon’tGo tag, I actually tried to keep out of it for the first few months. It was started back in July and I tried to avoid the tag because I know me being associated with anything in the fandom automatically gives it a bad reputation. So I was hoping that if people would listen to the people who have been making these protests and these are people from Saudi Arabia who are women who are making burner accounts and getting them published from outside of the country from what I’m seeing on a few of them. Yes, so when it comes to #SpeakYourself #EndViolence and they’re shutting my comments down because “Oh, you’re a white person, you trying to speak over Saudis.” I’m like, “Well, why haven’t you been listening to the people from Saudi Arabia who have been trying to #SpeakYourself for the last two months?” And then when I speak up to try and signal boot their voices because no one’s been listening to them and I’ve got a semi-active follower base, so I try to use that follower base to bring more attention to these people, I’m suddenly given all the credit for this tag and you’re erasing all the people who are genuine protestors. It’s just infuriating. It’s infuriating in a baffling way. Because obviously if I said the word infuriating, they’re gonna be like: “Hahaha, you’re so mad. Stay mad. Stay crying. They’re having a concert and you can stay mad.” It’s like, they turn human rights abuse into Twitter bants. It’s just do you – obviously they don’t, but they have no real conception of how bad this reflects on the fandom and how bad this then reflects on BTS as a group. Cause I tweeted about it yesterday. I basically said that when Saudi Arabia is paying for BTS to come to their country and uses government propaganda, they’ve already got their money’s worth for it in the first two days since that concert’s now been announced, because ARMYs are arguing about how great this country is and how great this concert is and how it’s not political.

The biggest things I’m getting out of it number one: America is just as bad. America is shit and I will absolutely agree with the fact that there’s a lot of things that need to change in terms of police brutality especially against minorities and the healthcare system, gun reform, the way they lock up children in cages– it’s just obviously a hell of a lot of things wrong with America but to equate that as beheading gay people in public which is what happens in Saudi Arabia or you get beheaded for witchcraft–the beheadings, that’s not the same thing as what goes on in America and to equate them? Is exactly what Saudi Arabia wants people to think, like; “Hey, we’re just as bad as everyone else. We’re not the worst country.” It’s like, you’re still pretty shit, mate.

And then, the other really huge thing that Saudi Arabia wants the rest of the world to think is that they are the representation of Islam. Islam is a religion of over a billion followers whereas Saudi Arabia is one country and it is one genocidal regime. So to equate the whole religion of Islam to Saudi Arabia is giving them exactly what they want and as I’ve linked to you to as well, there is a block list that is going around saying: everyone who thinks you should be able to enjoy this concert block all these, keyword: “Islamophobes” And that’s the biggest immediate shut down that ARMYs are using to criticize anyone who is speaking up on this concert. They’re calling everyone who is talking an Islamophobe. And it’s, for one, it’s obviously designed to prevent people from speaking up because you get labelled as something that’s bad on woke Twitter so you deserve to get bullied, you deserve to get ostracized and it’s a bad thing, you know, no one wants to really be associated with being a bigot. So, they put this bigot tag on people but no one that I’ve seen speaking up against the concert has equated Saudi Arabia to Islam. We’re not criticizing the Muslim faith. It is all entirely to do with that country’s politics and whilst that country may use Islam as a religion to justify their politics to say that’s a representation of their religion is very dangerous and very unfair to the millions of peaceful followers of that faith who are all over the world. It’s very dangerous and very bad. And Saudi Arabia has essentially paid a shitload of money to the Korean government and BigHit Entertainment and the benefit of that has now been ARMYs spreading propaganda on their behalf all over Twitter. And It’s only the second day that that’s started, and I can just easily see that getting so much worse in the upcoming weeks and months. So, if they’re going to be doing that, I feel there’s almost an obligation for sane people in the fandom to come out and speak out against that as well as much as the concert itself.

KP: Yeah, well branding someone as an Islamophobe is similar as branding someone as a racist or pedophile or whatever. Regardless of any truth or not in it, it’s just a way to sort of rally people on a social network to your side and make other people unappealing. If I wanted people to not read Jeff Benjamin, for example, probably the best thing I could say is that he was a racist or a pedophile or an Islamophobic or homophobic or whatever. So, people go searching for those things and if people can’t find them then they’ll create them.

AS: Exactly, and that’s what everyone’s started to create. It’s like, one of the people I was arguing with yesterday of course went off and went to make another expose thread about AustralianSana and one of the things they screenshotted was me quoting one of the tweets from someone who’s in Saudi Arabia and they said, “Oh well, what if we don’t share photos from the concert?” And I said, “Go ahead, we don’t want them anyway.” They screenshotted that and called that Islamophobic. Where in that tweet was anything to do with the religion of Islam? Nonexistent, but apparently that’s Islamophobic or xenophobic. I’m like, no mate, I just don’t particularly like– I don’t prioritize photos of Taehyung from one concert that are going to be spread when there’s another concert that’s coming up in a week later anyway where I can get photos from there from. I don’t prioritize one day’s worth of photos over sacrificing BTS’s integrity for what? What’s the gain of this? And that’s essentially what I’m just baffled by in a lot of ways. The amount of backlash, the amount of… [pause] I’m sorry, I’m trying to find the right words to use, it’s like, the detrimental effect that it will have on their brand for a very very long time afterwards is not worth any short-term gain that this concert is going to provide for them. Yes, Saudi Arabia probably gave them a fuckload of money for them come but think of all the money and endorsements and all the things they could potentially be about to miss out on from being associated with the Saudi government.

KP: Do you think that’ll actually translate over to them in Korea though? I think, obviously there’s a lot of money being transferred around behind the scenes. BigHit have made their decision. I mean, it seems ludicrous that they wouldn’t at least be aware that there would be some conflict, but they also, someone I thought had a really interesting point, that BigHit is still a relatively new company and BTS is their first successful group and they might be over-exaggerating how rich they really are and therefore when something like this comes along and they’re being involved in the South Korea-Saudi deal or whatever and their being paid X amount of dollars then I think there’s a lot of internal pressure on a company level for them to take that up.

AS: Of course, and that’s the reality of the world that we live in in terms of neoliberal capitalism and the way that politics is often involved. In capitalism and stuff like that, it’s just a depressing remainder of the world as a whole that we live in that obviously extends beyond BTS as a group and just, yeah society, stay woke whatever. Yeah, it’s like how much money is enough to sell your soul for is basically the question we’re asking and whatever the amount that the Saudi government paid BigHit for this concert is clearly that answer to their question. It’s a weird thing because BTS’s UNICEF stuff has never meant anything because I’ve been very critical of the United Nations as a whole. I mean, the fact that America has never been tried in The Hague for violating their ruling against the Iraq invasion and they still went ahead and did that anyway and hundreds of thousands of people have died. And nothing’s ever happened to George W Bush, so for me, America and the United Nations as a whole is a farce. The fact that the Saudi Arabian representative was appointed to the Women’s Rights Commission last year or this year? That’s obviously a joke. So, it’s just all a bunch of figureheads and farce and nothing ever legitimately ever comes from anything that goes on there. So, when BTS are made a representative, I can obviously see that’s basically them recruiting something popular and trying to make it look meaningful and trying to basically propaganda and brainwash kids into taking the United Nations seriously.

KP: Well, yeah of course. What are a bunch of teenagers in a boy band really–they’re not political scientists, are they?

AS: No, they’re just going to see United Nations and see prestige. And obviously that’s the whole reason that the United Nations paid for BTS in the first place. So that’s obviously a whole other debate in itself.

KP: United Nations and UNICEF is just sort of seen as that sort of stereotypically universally good organization that you can support to get virtue points going on for whatever your thing happens to be.

AS: Yeah, so because that never had any real value to me as a fan, then losing that reputation doesn’t impact me personally, but I know quite a few people will be upset about that because I’ve seen people on my Twitter feed quoting Namjoon’s speech that he made earlier this year and saying “how am I mean to take this seriously if he then goes off and performs in Saudi Arabia”. Which is a fair point to raise.

KP: It is a fair point to raise and obviously the answer is you probably shouldn’t have taken it seriously in the first place.

AS: You sure as hell can’t take it anymore seriously now. It’s basically, to quote a BTS song in itself, it’s a house of cards. And it’s about to come tumbling down and this is going to be the click that knocks it down. A lot of things people are also bringing up is November 2018 which was last year when the media was attacking them for using Nazi symbols supposedly in their past which they kind of did. It was like one of them was Namjoon’s hat, which had the swastika as part of the design, but then they were able to apologize and use cultural relativism and say “Oh, we use this logo in Korea everywhere so we didn’t intentionally…” and it’s true, as someone who lived there abroad for four months, I did see that sign quite a lot. And it’s not Nazi over there, it’s to do with Buddhism, so they were able to plead cultural relativism on this but it’s something that I’ve noticed and I think this is what also factored into BigHit’s decision to go ahead with the concert is they’ve gotten away with a lot of things that are very controversial throughout their career and the fandom has obviously caped for them. Back in 2016, SupremeBoi, he wrote a song for Iron, and the song Rock Bottom from the album Rock Bottom, and the crew that they call themselves is like a group that they hung out with you know, hip-hop, my homes, my crew–that’s obviously me parodying Koreans talking like a AAVE, not me trying to speak AAVE myself. But the way they have a whole crew and they call their crew Rock Bottom and the song he wrote for Iron was basically a rape fantasy song. And it was all about “I’m your master” “I’ll tie you up”. “I’ll hit you harder.” And like, the song literally had words like “I’ll rape you” in it. And he’s one of BTS’s long-term composers so that was, you know, not a fuckin’ smart move mate, especially doesn’t look good when Iron then later goes on to be convicted of assaulting his girlfriend, now ex-girlfriend for obvious reasons. The backlash from that was weirdly minimal. Like, there was a section of the fandom that was speaking out against it, but that of course got buried because “Don’t talk about it, don’t talk about it because then people are going to talk about that with BTS and it’s bad for their image.” So it’s like, okay someone clearly doesn’t care about women.

KP: Well, violence against women in rap music has been a very normalizing thing for a very long period of time, so I think it’s understood it’s sort of goes against the grain of the boy band image or whatever. But I don’t think that most people who enter rap music would probably barely bat an eyelid to that, to be honest. Rightly or wrongly.

AS: True. But yeah, that’s just one example of something controversial that happened that you know, if it happened to any other group, it probably would’ve blown up a lot more, but because its BTS, they had the whole fandom keeping it hush, keeping it quiet–”Oh, just email Bighit, trust BigHit.” And you know what? SupremeBoi is still fucking writing their songs now in 2019, so all that “email BigHit, trust BigHit” clearly doesn’t fucking work. So yeah, they had the fandom bury that incident. The next incident obviously was the November 2018 one with the Nazi insignia and the way that blew up was because they were able to plead cultural relativism because of the Nazi insignia, but the problem I have and I think a lot of other people also had was, it started from Bang Shi-hyuk, the CEO, recruiting someone from Japan to write a song for BTS, I’ll have to look up the title (Transcriber note: The song was called “Bird”), but it was meant to be the comeback as a Japanese release single. And the person who wrote that single was a far-right Japanese, he was a Japanese man with far-right beliefs. That caused backlash within the Korean fandom who were obviously all aware of who this was. And it caused backlash in the Korean fandom, because that’s obviously very relative in Korea if someone is far-right Japanese, it basically means they approved of all the awful things Japan committed against Korea in their history, so they were obviously offended. They eventually petitioned and the song got scrapped because of that backlash from the fans. So whilst globally Bang’s able to plead that “Oh, we didn’t know it meant that” if you know about Japanese and Korean politics, you know that far-right Japan was associated with Nazi Germany, that’s not a good look when the CEO of the company is willingly associating and trying to pay for someone who supports far-right beliefs to write music for his insanely popular group. So that’s the second thing that they’ve kind of gotten away with as much as there was a bit of backlash November 2018, it blew over quickly. So, you have SupremeBoi’s backlash blew over quickly, far-right Japanese songwriter blew over quickly–they’re expecting that blew over quickly to now apply to BTS going to Saudi Arabia. It’s like the more they get away with, the bigger they think that they can get away with in the future and that’s speaking as a company and obviously not BTS. So yeah, that’s something I think is also factoring into this decision process.

KP: So, what do you think will happen? The concert’s, let’s face it, is probably going to happen.

AS: It’s going to happen, yeah.

KP: What do you think is actually going to be the effect after it’s all done and over?

AS: It’s an interesting thing because like, part of me thinks it could possibly blow up and be very bad and then another part of me does also think potentially it could just blow over because BTS aren’t, so BigHit…it wouldn’t surprise me if they basically just, well, they’re very much staying silent because there’s been a few things where I’ve read like: “BigHit did not reply for comment when asked why they’re attending Saudi Arabia despite being United Nations Ambassadors.” And I think why they’re being so silent is they can basically blackmail media and say “Oh, well if you ask us about this or you write about this in a negative light, we will not provide you access with press passes to the biggest boy band in the world for their next upcoming concert or next upcoming comeback or tour or press pass or interview, etc”, so they can withhold access from BTS and because BTS are so profitable to anyone who writes about them, photographs them, interviews them etc, then it’s in the media’s self-interest to not report on this because they want to keep their access rather than actually be credible journalists. So that’s the angle I think a lot of people are kind of believing is going to happen as well they think that it can blow over because of that, but I know it will be written about to some extent. I’ve spoken to a couple of people in media and it’s a general consensus that a lot of people do already know about it and are trying to figure out how to write about it. Cause to break the story, it potentially runs the risk of a lawsuit because it’s obviously a very controversial topic, so you need to make sure that whatever you’re writing about this is very airtight on a professional level. So there’s that aspect, but I know people are in the process of trying to write– trying to figure out a way to write about it and once one person starts, it’s gonna have a bit of a breaking dam effect and then everyone’s gonna dog pile on. So, there will be backlash, it is inevitable. And I think that having, say for example people such as myself, people who’ve been involved in the #BTSDon’tGo tag for much longer than I have, actively speaking against it, trying to explain why it’s bad, trying to explain why the fandom is bad and why the fandom bullying people is bad, why the fandom justifying genocide is bad, can at least be something to…I almost reply to a lot of the backlash with, it’s like, yes this is very bad, but we did also have people in the fandom who do care about the message that BTS was endorsing of ending violence and speaking up against violence and we did have people following that. So, you know, it’s just…I almost want it to be some form of example that was set out of principle.

KP: I will tell what I think about this, is that, I mean, I share your opinions in terms of the whole moral aspect of you now, I don’t think it’s a very good idea and all that sort of stuff. But I also think that it’s definitely going to happen. I don’t think any media is gonna really stop it from happening. And I think that they will actually rather the storm quite easily at least as far as international fans go. I think the reason why is because when you look at someone who’s not into boy band or girl band music whatsoever and you start talking about– “Well, okay why don’t you like boy band music or girl band music? And they’ll generally come up with things like: “Well, it’s manufactured, it’s artificial, they don’t write their own songs, you know, blah blah blah”. So, there’s pretty much an expectation in the West that pretty much everything, for mature people, that pretty much everything that these sort of groups do is going to be fake. So, something like BTS supporting UNICEF and then going on to this Saudi Arabian concert which is ideologically polar-opposite would be completely unsurprising to someone like that. They’d be like, “Of course, it’s fake manufactured music. Of course, they’re going to do things that don’t make no ideological sense because there is no ideology there, they’re just there to make money”. So, I think that, what people in the fandom who are very passionate about this might not realize because they’re in the fandom is the expectations outside of their fandom are actually super low.

AS: The bar is on the floor.

KS: The bar is really on the floor, so you know, I don’t think there’s really going to be any huge impact, really. I think most people are just going to throw up their hands and go “Eh, pretty much what I’d expected.” Personally, for me, I didn’t think they’d do that much of a 100% about face but when I saw them earlier in the year doing the whole UNICEF thing I thought, “Well, gosh, that’s a bit of a wank really.” So, I get how for people who are in the fandom it’s very probably quite upsetting especially if they–

AS: Were invested in that message.

KS: Yeah, if they were invested in that message. If they were very much on your side politically, they’ll be very much upset. But yeah, that’s what I think. I don’t think it will amount to much in the grand scheme. And I think that there’s probably a known thing and I think a lot of people are just sort of thinking “Well, I can collect the money, or I can be seen as a really nice person to a particular group of fans…”

AS: At the end of the day they’re a capitalist company. It’s sad. It’s unfortunately the sad reality. I think the thing that I’m almost, it’s a weird thing, I think the thing that I’m the most upset, annoyed about is just how easily and how quickly the fandom has moved to become a propaganda machine for the Saudi Arabia within two days. It’s just baffling.

KP: Well, K-pop fandoms are kind of an inbuilt propaganda machine for pretty much whatever, I mean whatever their faves do, they’re already emotionally onboard to an extent that they can’t think critically, so there’s the potential for really bad things and this is one of those things.

AS: Yeah, this is almost like a therapy appointment for me to just vent about everything that’s frustrating about this situation, because I don’t think anything I’m doing here is gonna have much of an impact, but you know, at least I tried.

KP: I mean, I write things up and do things that have zero impact, but I do it because I believe in it. So, I think that’s fine. I don’t think someone should… you know, even when I go to the polling booth on Election Day, I vote for who I want. They might not get in and I know might know that the party I vote for is gonna get 1% but I’m still going to do it, so– (AustralinaSana’s phone goes off)

AS: Sorry, that was my phone going off.

KP: That’s alright. I think doing things based–you know, you got to sleep at night at the end of the day, don’t you?

AS: I feel frustrated. Why did I have to be born with a conscience? Nothing good ever comes from that.

KP: On the one hand, you’re very passionate about these societal issues, but on the other hand, you sort of, I don’t know, have a death wish and sort of don’t like people.

AS: It’s a very weird conflicting thing. It’s like, I don’t even understand it and I’m the one that has to deal with it. I hate the human race on so many levels just with how stupid how so many people are. I mean, supporting genocide because a boy band goes to perform in a country is the clear example of that.

KP: If you hate the human race, genocide should be making you happy.

AS: I know, it doesn’t add up. It doesn’t—it’s like what’s not clicking?

KP: Just another quick question which was asked before you solicited them. Which I thought was interesting which is: When are you two going to turn this segment into a podcast?

AS: I’m not against the idea, but I have no idea how to do it.

KP: Oh, that’s alright. I can handle the technical aspect. I could probably put this up as audio rather than type it all out say for about 5 hours.

AS: If you wanted, I don’t think I’ve said anything I’d regret going to air. I probably just sound like a stuttering mess at a few times.

KP: It’s all good, if that ever happens I can edit the audio. I’m an audio engineer so I can do things like that.

AS: Sure.

KP: So, people hearing this, if I do decide to do that. They’re probably going to think that I edited all this after the fact to make us sound much smarter than we really are.

AS: And they’re not wrong!

KP: Alright, anything else on your mind?

AS: No, that’s pretty much just the bane of my existence for today, so at least I got some outlet. Makes me feel somewhat better.

KP: I’m glad to have assisted with your mental health. That’s two people whose mental health I’ve assisted with this week.

AS: Oohh, who else without spoiling anything.

KP: The person who allegedly got bullied by Eric from The Boyz did an interview with me and that’s upset a lot of people, but it certainly made her feel better.

AS: Yeah, it’s an interesting thing how people will react to those situations.

KP: Yeah, and I mean, a lot of people are saying “you don’t have any evidence and why show this stuff”, but to be honest even in situations where I’ve argued with people on Stan Twitter and I do have evidence, they won’t even look at it anyway.

AS: You could present evidence in the form of a screenshot of the head of the GEA, who is a member of the kingdom, saying he personally invited BTS and the people on Twitter will still deny any form of association to the government and the concert. So that shows how much evidence is actually treated in arguments, so.

KP: Yeah, that’s it. People believe what they want to believe. Honestly, they do, so it really doesn’t matter what you tell them. And it really doesn’t matter how I respond to someone saying to me that the interview is wrong or bad or they’re lying or it’s irresponsible or whatever. That’s why at the end of the interview, I don’t add my little two cents of what I think or whatever because it doesn’t really matter what I think because people are going to read it and they’re going to make up their own mind. Anyway, hopefully you’re feeling better and I’ll leave it there.

AS: Cool! Thank you! I’ll share it on my page and Twitter, etc. when it’s finally up, so thank you and you don’t have to like rush and type it out as soon as you can cause obviously I’m the one who contacted you for it, so whenever you feel ready.

KP: I might investigate it doing it as audio, so I’ll see how that goes.

AS: Good luck.

KP: Cheers.

Thanks for reading! The series will return soon! Stay safe caonimas, especially when traveling!

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