ABC News chief legal analyst and Mediaite founder Dan Abrams says it’s possible Paul Manafort allegedly lied to federal investigators because he’s holding onto hope that President Trump will pardon him.

George Stephanopoulos spoke with Abrams on Tuesday to address Robert Mueller‘s claim that Manafort violated his plea agreement with the special counsel by lying to the FBI. Abrams explained that the move is significant since it suggests Mueller can prove Manafort’s supposed deceitfulness, which could be an “unnerving” development for President Trump and his former campaign chairman.

“You’ve got to believe for them to be this definitive on Manafort that they’ve got documents and emails and texts and something to back it up,” Abrams said.

Abrams acknowledged that there’s a question of why Manafort accepted a plea deal from Mueller if he was always hoping for a presidential pardon, but still “it sure feels like he’s looking for a pardon. Why else would you make an agreement and then allegedly lie about numerous issues? This wasn’t just one, numerous issues unless you know you have a backstop.”

Watch above, via ABC.

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