michael barbaro

Megan, Jodi, take us back to this moment a year ago. Where is the country?

jodi kantor

Let’s actually go back a little earlier than that. Let’s go back to the summer of 2018.

archived recording Bill Cosby, comedian, actor the man once dubbed America’s dad. Tonight, the 80-year-old is convicted on three counts of aggravated indecent assault. Kevin Spacey is being investigated by Scotland Yard for three new cases of sexual assault. With that new trouble for disgraced celebrity chef, Mario Batali. Obviously, these allegations of sexual harassment, sexual assault — a lot of things are in motion here.

jodi kantor

It’s been months and months since the Weinstein story broke, and #MeToo too has become this global phenomenon.

archived recording This is somebody — this happened to me, too. #MeToo has been — the phrase has been used consistently about about this case, it happened to them, too.

jodi kantor

But there’s also a lot of controversy and a kind of sense of mounting unfairness. A real backlash is accumulating.

archived recording Actress Catherine Deneuve denounced the movement because she believes people who did not deserve to be condemned are facing the same consequences as sex offenders. If you try and make a pass at someone, try and indicate that you’re interested, put maybe a hand on her knee, you could be accused of sexual harassment, lose your job —

jodi kantor

Saying that the whole thing has gone way too far.

archived recording And I wanted — I wanted more evidence. I wanted —

jodi kantor

And we’re seeing that tension play out in the news every single day.

archived recording Now to new developments in this bombshell allegations against the head of CBS.

jodi kantor

Ronan Farrow reports a very powerful story about Les Moonves.

archived recording That includes allegations from six women ranging from unwanted touching to what several of the sources termed sexual assault. As Leslie Moonves spoke about the company’s quarterly earnings, there was no mention of the accusations against him. His lawyers apparently advised him not to discuss the issue. And to some people’s surprise, analysts didn’t ask.

jodi kantor

But Moonves refuses to step down.

archived recording The premiere of Louis C.K.‘s new film was just canceled.

jodi kantor

Because of the accusations against Louis C.K., he’s basically lost his platform as a comedian.

archived recording This past weekend, after nine months out of the spotlight, the comedian took the stage at New York’s Comedy Cellar.

jodi kantor

But then all of a sudden, that summer, he begins to come back.

archived recording In response, social media erupted. One tweet: “It seems I missed the part when Louis C.K. served time. I just remember him living quietly as a millionaire for less than a year.”

jodi kantor

He shows up in comedy clubs and begins to make appearances.

archived recording It might be the most controversial moment of the #MeToo movement yet. Accusations against actor Aziz Ansari.

jodi kantor

So there’s an accumulating series of questions about what to do with these men. And then there are cases like the one involving Aziz Ansari, that it just feels like nobody knows quite what to do with —

archived recording Much of the media world seems to agree the story told by the woman who calls herself Grace about her date with comedian Aziz Ansari certainly does not rise to the level of Harvey Weinstein type misconduct.

jodi kantor

— the question of whether or how much he really did wrong is very, very much in dispute.

archived recording As feminists, aren’t we empowered to say no? Yes, of course — I just — I don’t get why we expect him to be a mind reader — I don’t think he was asked to be a mind reader. How wasn’t he?

megan twohey

So there’s this web of complicated unanswered questions, and this scientific researcher in California is about to walk right into them.

michael barbaro

Last month on “The Daily,” Megan Twohey and Jodi Kantor told the story of their investigation into Harvey Weinstein, a story that seemed to unite the country in redefining the rules around sex and power. But one year after the Weinstein story broke, a Supreme Court confirmation process came to be seen as a kind of national trial of the #MeToo movement. Today, on the anniversary of that confirmation, new reporting from Megan and Jodi’s book, “She Said,” on the untold story of the woman at the center of that confirmation process, and the journey that led to her testimony in Washington. It’s Friday, October 4. So what do we need to know about Christine Blasey Ford?

megan twohey

This series of events is set in motion in June of 2018.

archived recording (donald trump) And we will begin our search for a new justice of the United States Supreme Court that will begin immediately.

megan twohey

President Trump comes out with his list of potential nominees for this newly open seat on the Supreme Court.

archived recording (donald trump) We have a very excellent list of great talented, highly educated, highly intelligent, hopefully tremendous people. I think the list is very outstanding.

megan twohey

And back in California, Christine Blasey Ford is sitting on a story about one of those potential nominees.

archived recording (donald trump) So it will be somebody from that list. So we have now boiled it down to about 25 people.

megan twohey

And Ford emails a friend one of several people that she’s told her account to over the years. And she says, quote, “The favorite for SCOTUS is the jerk who assaulted me in high school. He’s my age, so he’ll be on the court the rest of my life.” And a friend writes back, he says, “I remember you telling me about him, but I don’t remember his name. Do you mind telling me so that I can read about him?” And she replies, “Brett Kavanaugh.” So in this moment, in this sort of private moment, the clock starts ticking.

jodi kantor

There were all these deadlines, and turning points, and external forces that were going to bring very difficult decisions for Christine Blasey Ford. And the first one came on July 9.

archived recording President Trump now says he plans to announce his nominee for the US Supreme Court on July 9, one week from Monday. archived recording (donald trump) I think you’ll be very impressed. These are very talented people, brilliant people, and I think you’re going to really love it.

jodi kantor

So in the days beforehand, Christine Blasey Ford has a real difficult dilemma, because she felt that she had critical information to provide about a nominee, but she doesn’t know what to do with it. She didn’t know who to trust, or who she could tell, or really, how to go to somebody in charge. She knew that President Trump was going to appoint a conservative judge, but she thought that perhaps there was one who did not have this kind of liability.

archived recording Sources tell CBS News the president is focused on four finalists. The top contenders are said to be federal judges, Amy Connie Barrett of Indiana, Brett Kavanaugh of Maryland, and Raymond Kethledge of Michigan.

jodi kantor

So on July 6, she makes a phone call. The person she’s calling is Representative Anna Eshoo. This is her congressional representative, a Democrat. And a young woman picks up the phone, and immediately, Ford blurts out what she has to say. She says, someone on the Supreme Court shortlist sexually assaulted me in high school. I need to talk to someone in the office. It’s urgent, Trump is about to make his selection. She’s told that somebody will call her back soon. So then she picks up her phone again and she contacts The Washington Post. She clicks on their tip line and she writes, potential Supreme Court nominee with assistance from his friend assaulted me in mid 1980s in Maryland. Have therapy records talking about it. Feel like I shouldn’t be quiet, but not willing to put family in D.C. and CA through a lot of stress. Now she thinks her phone is going to ring immediately, either from The Washington Post or from her congressperson’s office. But in fact, nobody gets back to her. And sure enough, on July 9.

archived recording (donald trump) Tonight, it is my honor and privilege to announce that I will nominate —

jodi kantor

President Trump announces his nominee.

archived recording (donald trump) — Judge Brett Kavanaugh to the United States Supreme Court.

michael barbaro

So Brett Kavanaugh is now the president’s nominee for the Supreme Court. What happens next?

megan twohey

Well, to begin with, the people that Ford had been trying to contact to avoid Kavanaugh becoming the nomination, they’re now available to talk to her. And she has a new decision on her hands. Does she want to move forward with reporting this allegation she doesn’t want to do so in a very public way. Her hope, her belief is that she can share this information with the people who are making the decision. So she moves forward, she meets with her Congresswoman. July 18, they meet. She spells out what had happened. And Eshoo’s office says, O.K., if you’re going to go this kind of civic route of reporting this, then you need to stop talking to The Washington Post, and in fact, stop telling other people. But by this point, word had started to trickle out through her group of friends and into the broader Palo Alto community, including to some of the #MeToo activists. And so she’s getting messages passed along from those people. You know, a friend of hers actually sends a text message saying this is a crucial time in history.

michael barbaro

Wow.

megan twohey

Encouraging her to come forward. This account was starting to become much bigger than her alone. And meanwhile, while all of this is playing out behind the scenes, Kavanaugh’s nomination is moving forward in public.

archived recording But for the president talking to the folks at the White House, they seem to be confident that their pick, Judge Kavanaugh, will sail through. That Judge Brett Kavanaugh is quite simply the most qualified and the most deserving nominee to the Supreme Court of the United States.

megan twohey

A lot of the focus is on his support for women and girls.

archived recording (brett kavanaugh) I have tried to create bonds with my daughters like my dad created with me.

megan twohey

The fact that he has coached his daughter’s girls basketball team.

archived recording (brett kavanaugh) For the past seven years, I’ve coached my daughters’ basketball teams.

megan twohey

And the fact that he has hired a lot of female clerks.

archived recording Like, everything from his mother’s record, and teaching, and then putting yourself through law school, his relationship with his girls — I might be just drinking Kool-Aid, I don’t know, but I sat there, I was like, this guy seems so amazing.

megan twohey

So Ford is agonizing over what to do now that Kavanaugh has been nominated, and she’s hearing all of these glowing accounts of his record with women. And she wants her account to be considered, too. And so at the end of July, Congresswoman Eshoo’s office instructs her to write a letter to the committee, to the ranking members of the committee that’s going to be voting on Kavanaugh’s nomination. But Ford chooses to only send that letter to the ranking Democrat, Senator Dianne Feinstein of California. It’s her understanding that as a constituent of Feinstein’s, she’s going to be guaranteed confidentiality.

michael barbaro

Mm-hmm.

megan twohey

And she has told us that in that moment of submitting the letter to Feinstein’s office that it dawned on her for the first time, oh my god, I need a lawyer. And she ends up working with Debbie Katz and Lisa Banks, two of the more prominent feminist attorneys in the country who are based in Washington, and the story that’s starting to unfold.

jodi kantor

So that’s when I get a call from one of those lawyers, Debbie Katz. It’s Saturday, August 11. She’s just met for a couple of days before. She’s already sounding very, very worried. She doesn’t tell us Ford’s name, but what she says is that this client is completely credible, that she’s a scientist, that she’s very precise, that she tells her story very consistently. That Katz really, really believes her. But what she also said is that she doesn’t quite know what she’s gotten herself into. She says my new client is naive about how big this could become. Katz doesn’t really have a point of view at this point about whether she should come forward or not, but she wants me to quietly pass along the story to the paper. To ask the editors to further investigate Kavanaugh’s treatment of women, because she wants to know if there’s a pattern here or if her client is alone. And by the way, she had asked Feinstein’s office the same thing. This was what she was trying to find out.

michael barbaro

And the paper does start to look more closely at Kavanaugh’s record with women. But Ford’s story itself, her allegations aren’t published in The Times.

megan twohey

Right. And we now know that that’s because at this moment in time she has decided to go the congressional route. And in deciding to go the congressional route, she’s now facing a new deadline.

archived recording President Trump’s pick to be the next Supreme Court justice will get his Senate confirmation hearing next month.

megan twohey

The Senate Judiciary hearings on Kavanaugh’s nomination are set to begin right after Labor Day.

archived recording Hearings for Brett Kavanaugh will begin on September 4. It’s a process the Trump administration has said it wants it wrapped up before November’s midterm elections.

megan twohey

So she has to make a decision before then.

jodi kantor

But remember, it’s a confusing situation, because she doesn’t even know these new lawyers. She is in California, they’re in D.C., they’re having these intense phone calls. These lawyers, Debbie Katz and Lisa Banks, are trying not to impose a point of view on her. They really feel that the decision has to be hers. But on the other hand, she’s sitting there in California saying, what do these lawyers want me to do? Do they have a point of view on this?

megan twohey

And into this mix comes Ricki Seidman. And Ricki Seidman was a veteran of Supreme Court confirmation battles and a longtime Democratic operative. She had a lot of experience in Supreme Court confirmation battles. In fact, she had been working on the committee that had first learned of Anita Hill’s allegations against Clarence Thomas. And she had encouraged Hill to speak further to the committee at great personal toll to Hill. And so she enters the picture. And she brings with her all this concern that the exact same thing could happen to Ford if she came forward. And so Katz and Banks, the lawyers are, trying their best to be neutral and weigh out the potential pros and cons. But Seidman is pretty adamant. In fact, at one point she flies to California and meets with Ford in person, and spells out all the reasons she thinks she should not come forward.

jodi kantor

So Ford at that point has not made a decision and her team feels that she really needs to because the nomination is moving forward in Washington. It’s very heated, it’s very partisan, but it looks like things are ultimately going to go pretty smoothly for Kavanaugh. And so what they decide to do in order to facilitate a decision on Ford’s part is they set an artificial deadline. They say by August 29, which is a few days before the hearings are going to begin, we’re going to choose one of three letters that we’re writing. And they actually draft these three letters, and it’s like each letter could lead to a different outcome not only for Ford but for the country. They’re all variations on the choices she could make. So Ford and her team are looking at these letters and Ford still can’t make a decision, and their deadline passes. And then it’s Thursday, which is the day after the deadline. And at this point, the hearings are really about to begin. And she is just unable to choose. Katz says to her, this is a life defining decision, and it’s yours. But Ford can’t make a decision, and that in effect becomes the decision. That night, she sends one of her sons to sleep with her husband, and she climbs into his IKEA bed. And she says to herself, look, on some level, I deserved the chance to try this. And sitting there in her child’s bed, she sobs.

megan twohey

And so on September 4, the Kavanaugh hearings begin. And sure, there’s some controversy, but for the most part, it’s looking like smooth sailing that Kavanaugh will in fact be easily confirmed. But the following week on Monday, Ford back in California shows up for her first day of teaching. And it’s clear that word of her allegation is continuing to seep out. At the end of class, she is approached by a reporter from BuzzFeed who says, I know about the letter. She orders the reporter to leave the classroom, to leave the building. But there are reporters who are showing up at her home, that are calling her colleagues. And on September 12 —

archived recording Tonight, the mysterious new twist about Supreme Court nominee, Brett Kavanaugh. There is a bombshell report involving Brett Kavanaugh —

megan twohey

The Intercept, an online publication, actually publishes an article.

archived recording It is quite a doozy. We don’t know too many details about these allegations.

megan twohey

About the fact that the Democrats are aware that Feinstein has received a letter about Kavanaugh and something that happened with a woman in high school and that they’re trying to obtain it.

archived recording So let me give you her exact quote on this. She says, I have received information from an individual concerning the nomination of Brett Kavanaugh to the Supreme Court. That individual strongly requested confidentiality, declined to come forward or press the matter further. And I have honored that decision —

megan twohey

After all of that deliberation that ended with Ford not coming forward, there are now all of these other external forces coming into play again that are basically starting to take her story out of her own hands. And in this moment, she realizes, O.K., it looks like my best course of action is to actually tell my story to The Washington Post.

michael barbaro

We’ll be right back.

jodi kantor

So that afternoon, my phone rings, and it’s Debbie Katz, and she’s calling me in the middle of this whole thing. And she says to me, my client can’t testify.

michael barbaro

And why is she saying that to you?

jodi kantor

Because at this point, it’s basically taken everything Ford has had to do this Washington Post piece. She’s already gone further than she had anticipated going. The idea of flying to Washington, and giving testimony — that’s not something she’s ever really even contemplated.

archived recording Deborah Katz is the attorney representing Christine Blasey Ford. Good morning.

jodi kantor

So the next morning, Debbie Katz is on a whole bunch of morning TV shows, and the hosts ask her the obvious question, which is, will your client testify?

archived recording Ms. Katz, Is your client willing to testify before the Judiciary Committee?

jodi kantor

And Katz says —

archived recording (debbie katz) The answer is yes.

jodi kantor

The answer is yes.

michael barbaro

Didn’t you just tell you that she wouldn’t testify?

jodi kantor

Well, it’s true that for Ford, the prospect of going to Washington at that point seemed unthinkable. But the lawyers and advisors essentially have two reasons. One, they feel they need to buy her time. They tell her that they need to keep her options open and that she can always back out later. Second, things have changed at this point, and they now feel that to kind of preserve the integrity of her story, she needs to tell it live. They’ve seen already privately that they think she’s going to be a very powerful, very credible witness, and they want her to tell that story unfiltered and unmediated to the American public. So essentially, they’re bluffing to preserve that option. So at that point, two different things are happening in public and in private. In public —

archived recording Ford’s lawyers issued their latest salvo, telling the Senate Judiciary Committee that she wishes to testify, provided that we can agree on terms that are fair and which ensure her safety.

jodi kantor

The lawyers are beginning to negotiate with the Republicans for Ford to appear. And it seems like Ford is in some sense preparing to come to Washington.

archived recording We’re going to hear for them hopefully, on Monday. I’m so glad it’s a public hearing, because I do think the public needs to hear from both sides.

jodi kantor

But in private, she’s sending her advisors notes like this. I’m feeling way too much pressure at the moment.

megan twohey

And Katz says, believe me I don’t want to be another pressure. I’m just cognizant of the time constraints, we need to get an email out to Grassley and Feinstein soon.

jodi kantor

Ford writes back, I can’t go there — she inserts a sad emoji — to D.C.

megan twohey

And Katz says, that’s O.K. We can always pull out on the basis that they wouldn’t come up with fair rules. This is the right next step. But the attorney really wants to make sure that she has the green light from her client to proceed with negotiations, so she says, to clarify, you’re O.K. with this sending the email which we need to do soon, but you want us to be clear that if they don’t agree to fair terms, you won’t go forward?

jodi kantor

And Ford writes back, I want you to know as you are writing that I can’t guarantee I’ll go to D.C. And she inserts an emoji with a bead of sweat. Can I see final version? And then she adds, I’m so scared I can’t breathe.

archived recording We’ve seen Republicans, congressional Republicans, really lining up behind this idea that she needs to testify on Monday. You have Senator Jeff Flake saying that she needs to testify on Monday, Senator Collins saying that she needs to testify on Monday.

jodi kantor

But by Friday, September 21, the Republicans are losing patience. They announce that they’re going to go ahead and hold a vote the following Monday if a deal has not been reached for Ford to come.

archived recording (mitch mcconnell) You’ve watched the fight. You’ve watched the tactics. But here’s what I want to tell you. In the very near future, Judge Kavanaugh will be on the United States Supreme Court.

jodi kantor

And so finally, over the weekend, a deal does materialize. By Sunday, Ford has committed to coming to Washington D.C.

megan twohey

And then within hours, the whole landscape changes again.

jodi kantor

So after all of these weeks of wondering whether other accounts are going to surface about Kavanaugh, two do at almost the same time.

archived recording We have a second allegation of sexual misconduct against Judge Brett Kavanaugh this morning.

jodi kantor

The first is the story of Deborah Ramirez, which is published in The New Yorker.

archived recording One of his Yale classmates tells The New Yorker magazine that Kavanaugh exposed himself to her at a party about 35 years ago.

jodi kantor

It’s about a drunken incident at a party at Yale many years ago. It’s about Kavanaugh allegedly thrusting his penis in her face, even to the point where she had to touch it as she was pushing him away. At the same time, Michael Avenatti, the lawyer who’s become a very familiar public face because he’s represented Stormy Daniels, tweets out what sounds like very serious allegations against Kavanaugh.

archived recording Accusing Supreme Court nominee Brett Kavanaugh of explosive instances of sexual misconduct.

jodi kantor

He says, we’re aware of significant evidence of multiple house parties in the Washington D.C. area during the early 1980s during which Brett Kavanaugh would participate in the targeting of women with alcohol and drugs to allow a, quote, “train” of men to subsequently gang rape them. Later on, it’s going to become clear that these two allegations are very different. But in that moment, they sort of seemed like a pair because they came into public view at the same time.

megan twohey

So what people had assumed would happen, that additional allegations of sexual misconduct against Kavanaugh would strengthen Ford’s accusation, and be evidence of a pattern did not happen. In fact, it was by many measures, the opposite.

archived recording This new allegation is ridiculous. I mean, to accuse somebody of premeditated gang rape, which is what this Michael Avenatti client has done, it just doesn’t add up. It does not —

megan twohey

Where Ford’s accusation against Kavanaugh had pushed on some of those like unanswered confusing questions swirling around #MeToo, these new allegations pushed on those questions even harder. And so Republicans and other critics immediately pounced.

archived recording (donald trump) 36 years ago, nobody ever knew about it, nobody ever heard about it? And now a new judge comes up, and she said, well, it might not be him, and there were gaps, and she said she was totally inebriated.

megan twohey

Now they’re coming out and they’re lumping all of these allegations together, and saying it’s all part of a political hit job by the Democrats to take Kavanaugh down.

archived recording Take him down. Take him down at whatever costs. It is pure and simple — Raw politics at whatever cost.

jodi kantor

So it’s Thursday, September 27. It’s the day of the testimony.

archived recording This morning, we continue our hearing on the nomination of Judge Brett Kavanaugh to serve as associate justice on our Supreme Court.

jodi kantor

Christine Blasey Ford has in fact shown up.

archived recording Thanks, of course, to Dr. Ford and Judge Kavanaugh for accepting our community’s invitation to testify.

jodi kantor

And there’s this mood across the country that something really important is going to be decided that day. And I think that was even truer inside the room. It felt like a tribunal. It was a much smaller space than the way it looked on TV. And the lights were so incredibly bright. Like, everybody was under a lot of scrutiny. And the two sides were just bumping up against each other. Tarana Burke was there, the founder of the #MeToo movement. Just a few feet away stood Ashley Kavanaugh, the judge’s wife. And she had this look of horror on her face. And even the way the testimony unfolded added to the impression that one side was going to win and one side was going to lose.

archived recording (christine blasey ford) I am here today not because I want to be. I am terrified. I am here because I believe it is my civic duty to tell you what happened to me while Brett Kavanaugh and I were in high school.

jodi kantor

Christine Blasey Ford was very polite but she was also very firm. She was very precise. And many people found her enormously credible.

archived recording (brett kavanaugh) Mr. Chairman —

jodi kantor

But immediately afterwards, during Judge Kavanaugh’s turn —

archived recording (brett kavanaugh) Ranking member Feinstein, members of the committee —

jodi kantor

He comes out swinging.

archived recording (brett kavanaugh) This confirmation process has become a national disgrace.

jodi kantor

And he is vehemently denying any wrongdoing. Not just Ford’s allegation —

archived recording (brett kavanaugh) Gangs, illegitimate children, flights on boats in Rhode Island — all nonsense.

jodi kantor

And he’s positioning himself as a kind of voice of male grievance about the #MeToo movement.

archived recording (brett kavanaugh) This whole two week effort has been a calculated and orchestrated political hit.

jodi kantor

So I wake up the next morning and I talk to Debbie Katz, one of Christine Blasey Ford’s lawyers. And she tells me to take a cab to the Watergate hotel in Washington. And we meet at the hotel, and she takes me into this little narrow conference room. And a minute later in walks Christine Blasey Ford. And all of a sudden, I’m face to face with this woman we’ve all watched so closely.

michael barbaro

And what was your impression?

jodi kantor

I mean, honestly, my strongest impression of meeting her the next morning is that this is just one person. She looked so everyday. Her hair was tousled from sleep, she was wearing flip-flops, the kind of dark suit she had worn the day before was gone. She was very focused on the practical questions of, O.K., how do I get home to California. Her flight was about to leave. She was trying to figure out, O.K., how do I resume a normal existence? So after Ford leaves, I continue to spend the morning with Debbie Katz and her law partner, Lisa Banks. And basically, they’re waiting like the rest of us. They’re waiting to see what the Senate Judiciary Committee is going to do. So we go back to their office, and we’re in a big conference room, and the TV is on, and they’re waiting for some sort of news development.

archived recording Well, she got the opportunity to testify and have her life turned upside down, and for what? So that she could be placed on the court just like he would have been.

jodi kantor

Even though they’re at the center of this thing, they’re like the rest of us. They don’t know what’s going to happen next.

archived recording If there’s a 16-year-old girl who in a few months who undergoes something similar, will she be encouraged to tell somebody because of Christine? Instead of keeping it to herself. She probably will be encouraged, but my question remains the same — to what effect? To what end? Is it going to change anything?

jodi kantor

So these two women have worked together on these kinds of issues for years. But as we’re sitting there in the conference room, they sort of adopt different positions. Debbie Katz plays the optimist.

archived recording (debbie katz) If we’re evaluating where we are today versus where we were a year ago, there’s no question that a year ago, she would not be allowed to testified if not for the movement giving her support and insistent she be heard. archived recording (lisa banks) I’m not saying the movement is a failure, I’m really not.

jodi kantor

And Lisa Banks, her partner, kind of plays the pessimist. And she says —

archived recording (lisa banks) Despite the power of the movement, and how everybody in this country has woken up, and recognize how women have been treated forever, right now, we’re awake to it. We’re energized, were mobilized. And yet because we have these institutions, the results seem to be the same. So maybe the message is different, maybe the messaging is different, they cover their ass in a different way. My problem is the result is exactly the same. And even after recent rounds the backlash, after Trump’s election, even after Harvey Weinstein, the #MeToo movement —

jodi kantor

The Senate hasn’t changed. The White House hasn’t changed.

archived recording (lisa banks) And we have a Supreme Court —

jodi kantor

And that’s what matters.

archived recording (lisa banks) And all of those entities will seek to see just maintain the status quo in terms of white male power and privilege. archived recording I will vote to confirm Judge Kavanaugh.

megan twohey

And by the next week, we have a much stronger sense of where this is headed.

archived recording We need to form a protest and go to the polls, and protest and vote some of these people out, and vote for Republicans —

megan twohey

The display of rage that Kavanaugh had shown during his testimony had really given many Americans permission to voice their own discomfort and anger at where the #MeToo movement had gone.

archived recording Today is Kavanaugh, tomorrow, it could be your brother, your husband, your father, or your son. I don’t like what I just saw here. Anybody can be accused of something. And even if they’re trying to defend themselves, you still want to make it wrong, and that’s not right.

megan twohey

You know, Mike Davis, who was the head Republican staffer on the Senate Judiciary Committee, later told me in interviews that Avenatti weighing in with the allegations of gang rape had been a gift — had been a gift. That this had provided you know, Kavanaugh’s defenders and people more broadly with the claims that this whole thing had gone too far, and that men were being unfairly accused, and targeted, and victimized. And so this is really the mood that’s taken hold on October 6, the day of the final vote on Kavanaugh’s nomination, when I’m in Washington D.C. with Lisa Banks and Debbie Katz at their office. And then we got in the car. And drove to Capitol Hill to watch the confirmation vote.

archived recording (debbie katz) And you have this — I don’t know any trial lawyer who doesn’t have this. If I try a three week case, it takes me three weeks to the day to go through every single moment of what we could have done differently.

megan twohey

And it’s clear that they’re trying to find ways to make sense of this.

archived recording (lisa banks) Whatever is happening in there today has been affected by what she has done. And we need to — even if the vote goes the wrong way, which it will, right? But the process has been affected and impacted. She did that and she deserves — archived recording As a reminder to our guests in the galleries, expressions of approval or disapproval are not permitted in the Senate galleries.

megan twohey

So we walk into the Senate gallery. You know, there are sort of big wooden doors, you walk down these white marble stairs. And soon, we’re all seated in this almost majestic Senate gallery. And Don McGahn, Trump’s White House counsel, is sitting across from me watching the proceedings with a smile on his face.

archived recording A good man — a good man with sterling academic credentials —

megan twohey

And one by one, the Republicans are getting up and —

archived recording But imagine what this has been like for a Judge Kavanaugh’s parents.

megan twohey

Talking about —

archived recording Or his wife.

megan twohey

How Kavanaugh is such a victim.

archived recording Or his children.

megan twohey

You know, Democrats are doing the exact opposite.

archived recording The fact that this touched a nerve to so many Americans and particularly to women who have gone through this experience should put this whole debate in context. We ought to understand the gravity of this debate in light of the cultural change we are now facing in America.

megan twohey

And then in the end, the vote is taken, and —

archived recording On this vote, the ayes are 50, the nays are 48.

megan twohey

It lines up almost to a T, Republicans in favor, Democrats against.

archived recording And the nomination of Brett M. Kavanaugh of Maryland to be an associate justice of the Supreme Court of the United States is confirmed.

megan twohey

Kavanaugh has confirmed.

michael barbaro

So Jodi and Megan, it’s been a year since this day. We started this conversation by talking about where the country was in this moment, when Christine Blasey Ford learned that the man she said had sexually assaulted her in high school was being considered for the Supreme Court. You said that there were so many unanswered questions about the #MeToo movement when she learned that. In Kavanaugh’s confirmation and in the months since, have we answered any of those questions?

jodi kantor

No. It’s like we took all of these hard questions that were so heated to begin with, and we just poured a political gasoline on them, which is not a recipe for resolving anything. Look, I do think that there were some serious reassessment, especially on a private level, of long ago behavior. But did we move forward on solving any of these fundamental questions about #MeToo? I don’t think so. It’s like instead of causing progress the whole thing caused us to pull apart even farther.

michael barbaro

Why do you think that that is?

jodi kantor

It feels like when we look at the stories that have played out in the realms of entertainment, and corporate life, it feels like on those were capable of having a more nuanced forward looking discussion. In politics, these stories just become imbued with the heat and poison of American political life. And so it’s just very hard to come to any kind of resolution about them.

megan twohey

And these two individuals, Brett Kavanaugh and Christine Blasey Ford, were turned into symbols by both sides. And yet they’re still symbols. Brett Kavanaugh is now on the Supreme Court. He was always going to be this visible conservative vote on the court. But now he’s going to be trailed by this cultural identity, a representation of male grievance. And Christine Blasey Ford, who went back to California with hopes of being able to return to a normal life, is far from it. It’s not certain if and when that will ever happen. And she is now seen as an icon by many women. She has been flooded with tens of thousands of letters from victims of sexual assault, and sexual harassment, and abuse who have poured their hearts out to her. But she’s also receiving death threats and is often scared to go out in public. And so she is the symbol that she never wanted to be and so is he.

michael barbaro

Megan and Jodi, thank you again.

jodi kantor

Thank you.

megan twohey

Thanks for having us.

michael barbaro

Here’s what else you need to know today.

archived recording (donald trump) Likewise, China should start an investigation into the Bidens. Because what happened in China is just about as bad as what I’ve been with Ukraine.

michael barbaro

On Thursday, President Trump called on China to investigate former Vice President Joe Biden and his family over work that Biden’s son did there. The remarks echoed Trump’s request to the president of Ukraine, already the subject of an impeachment inquiry, and could strengthen the Democrats’ case against the president.

archived recording The president of the United States encouraging a foreign nation to interfere again to help his campaign by investigating a rival is a fundamental breach of the president’s oath of office.

michael barbaro

Speaking to reporters, House Intelligence Committee Chairman Adam Schiff, one of the leaders of the impeachment inquiry, expressed outrage.

archived recording It endangers our elections, it endangers our national security. It ought to be condemned by every member of this body, Democrats and Republicans.

michael barbaro