Pitchfork: The Secret History Vol. 1 also features the oft-bootlegged 1992 Brixton academy set, a special moment in early Pavemania.

SM: That was toward the end of a tour with Sonic Youth, who had just put out Dirty, and they had the red carpet rolled out for them at that time—like, “next Nirvana” hype. We were a little band on this big tour, so we were trying really hard, too. We wanted to impress them.

Pitchfork: It’s the most punk rock Pavement ever sounded. And you can hear that the crowd is really amped up to see you.

SM: Yeah, man! In England, people really knew who we were already, because of John Peel. You don’t realize that when you’re young, and you’re surprised there’s a lot of people at your gig—you just think it’s general British-press hype. But in retrospect, I realize that Peel was the one playing us and saying, “This is a great band.” We didn’t even take those Peel Sessions seriously; we didn’t realize it was that special an opportunity. We just thought, “Oh, this is what young bands do, and we’re just going to fuck around in here and make new material.”

But everyone loved Peel and listened to him, and if he liked you, you’d get 300 people at your gig. In those early times, that space from being a nobody to being something is so vast and then, after that, you’re just kind of there—it’s up to you to carry on the fight and have something to say. But still, to get your foot in the door, Peel was massive. We were hyped! I don’t have hype anymore, but I remember what that was like! [laughs]

SK: We were a pretty good band around that time. But then when Gary started believing all the hype, things just started really going downhill. [laughs]

Pitchfork: Have you kept in touch with Gary?

SK: No, I haven’t. After the reunion shows we did with him, I moved to Australia for a few years, so I lost track of him. We didn’t really leave it too well at the end, because I was kind of upset with him about still being drunk Gary. [laughs] But I’ve heard he’s doing good. He’s still living out in the country near Stockton, probably growing vegetables and listening to Frank Zappa. But he was a big part of those early years. If it wasn’t for Gary, it would’ve been a completely different band—not only in recording all the stuff, which he did a great job at, but he was also a big source of entertainment for us! [laughs]

Pitchfork: The great irony of Pavement is that you mellowed out after the hippie left.

SK: Yeah, right! We became more R.E.M., less Replacements.