Lahren first made a name for herself in 2015 with her commentary on the Chattanooga shootings for the network OAN. At the age of 22, she seemed poised to become a star who could appeal to young conservatives online, the kind of firebrand who could stick out in a social-media feed. “I care that our commander-in-chief is more concerned with Muslim sensitivity than the honor and sacrifice made by these Marines,” she said. In the same segment, she also somehow implicated President Obama’s actions on issues like climate change and universal healthcare in an act committed by a man diagnosed with bipolar disorder who was seemingly radicalized by online propaganda.

“Why are you so angry?” Noah asked Lahren as she sat down, referring to the biting tone she often uses in her broadcast. He seemed to be getting at other questions, too: Does anger like Lahren’s, delivered in bite-size, shareable video clips eagerly devoured by a certain segment of the population, exist only to grab their attention? Is it a more extreme example of the “Samantha Bee problem” that Ross Douthat claimed hurt the Clinton campaign—that overt activism was getting injected into previously mainstream areas of the media like late-night comedy? Noah has largely steered clear of giving lectures straight to the camera, perhaps because hosts like Seth Meyers and John Oliver have staked out that territory so well. In talking with Lahren, he seemed interested in going a more conciliatory, diplomatic route.

Still, Noah wasn’t afraid to challenge his guest, including on her widely criticized comment that the Black Lives Matter movement was the “next KKK” because of some violent anti-police rhetoric from isolated members of the movement. “Just because you say the thing doesn’t mean that’s what it stands for,” Noah said exasperatedly. “You’ve argued on your show, just because Donald Trump has KKK supporters doesn’t mean he’s in the KKK.” Indeed, minutes later she angrily refuted the idea that she or Trump belonged to the white supremacist alt-right, just because that group supported him.

“Surely you understand the incendiary feeling of your comments, surely?” Noah pleaded. “It’s controversial, but I think there are some things that need to be said,” Lahren countered. Her point, it seems, is the foundation for so much in the factionalized world of social media-driven news. If something is controversial, is it defensible simply because it “needed” to be said? Her argument is rooted in the First Amendment, which Lahren kept referencing, but Noah remarked on some inconsistencies in her views on free speech. Lahren has criticized the San Francisco 49ers quarterback Colin Kaepernick for his kneeling protest during the national anthem—but Noah noted the parallels between Lahren’s professed right to criticize Kaepernick and Kaepernick’s right to not kneel.