Jerry Agar, a NewsTalk 1010 radio host who supported Rob Ford’s bid for mayor, challenged Ford on Thursday to identify the wasteful “gravy” he had promised to find and eliminate if elected.

Ford’s response: “The gravy is the number of employees we have at City Hall.”

Ford refuses to use the word “cuts” when discussing the budget, habitually referring to “efficiencies.” Challenged by Agar to say whether the elimination of daycare subsidies for 2,000 people would be a cut, Ford said, “No, it's an efficiency.”

Ford usually conducts one-on-one radio interviews only with friendly hosts. In perhaps an indication of shifting political winds, Agar, a longtime booster, grilled him about his proposed cut to the police budget, his suggestion of a possible 2.5 per cent tax increase, his weakening grip on council and, twice, on his apparent inability to locate true waste.

“Why are so many people saying — and you know it’s all over the place, in all media, just on the street, people hangin’ at Tim’s [Tim Hortons] — are saying, ‘Hey, he’s not finding the gravy!’” Agar said.

Ford said, “That’s not what I’m hearing. I don’t know what Tim’s you’re hanging out at.” He said he was determined to address financial problems the city’s politicians have long ignored — problems he said had been caused by the votes of the same “left-wing” councillors now opposing him.

“I’m not one to sit back and watch things. We’re gonna make things happen. And that’s what we’ve been doing our whole life,” Ford said. “I guarantee that we’re gonna turn this city around, put us back on our financial feet. Because, Jerry, every year, they just kept saying, ‘Well, we’ll pass it on to next year, we’ll deal with it next year, we’ll deal with it next year.’ Well you know what? Next year has come. Next year is now.”

Ford made several misleading points. He suggested that his council opponents are seeking to balance the budget with a 35 per cent tax increase; none of them are. He argued that the scrapped vehicle registration tax was “gravy”; as Agar pointedly noted after the interview, it produced revenue.

And Ford rhetorically asked if his opponents would prefer to follow the path of European countries currently undergoing debt crises, such as Portugal, Italy and Spain. Toronto is not permitted to take on debt to pay for its operating budget, the sole focus of the current debate.

A poll taken this week showed Ford’s approval rating at a lowly 42 per cent and overwhelming opposition to suggested cuts. Council centrists have been critical of Ford, and Jaye Robinson, a member of his executive committee, has publicly rejected his preferred plan for the waterfront Port Lands.

Asked about his hold on council, Ford said his opponents are “gonna have to answer to the taxpayers.”

Ford again promised a 2012 property tax increase of no more than 2.5 per cent. And he again insisted: “There’s a lot of gravy left at City Hall. Which we will find.”

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Ford has generally distanced himself from the recommendations of cuts made by consultants from KPMG. He offered a general endorsement to Agar.

“These people are professionals. These people came in and they found the money. If they can find it, why can’t we do what they say?”

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