k99



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Manfred Karrer







Sr. MemberActivity: 346Merit: 254Manfred Karrer bitsquare.io - The P2P Fiat-Bitcoin Exchange June 10, 2014, 08:27:41 PM

Last edit: June 21, 2018, 05:07:40 PM by k99 Merited by OmegaStarScream (2), FractalUniverse (1), Financisto (1) #1



A few months ago, I started working on a P2P Fiat-Bitcoin exchange project (initially called



After a few iterations and refinements of the concept I created a

The project uses Java8/JavaFX with the BitcoinJ library and TomP2P as messaging/DHT solution.



At the moment, we are two developers working fulltime on the project; currently, we are discussing and setting up a funding model.



We are still looking for more developers to join, especially people with experience in P2P networking.

If you feel like contributing, please drop us a line at



Here are the main points of the bitsquare project:

Pure P2P, cannot get shut down by a central authority

Fiat money will be transferred from one users bank account to the others bank account without any intermediary party

Open source, open communication, open development, continuous deployment

Arbitrator system as primary protection mechanism

Collateral as additional incentive for fair behavior

Contract holds all trade details and signed by both traders helps in case of disputes

Account registration with a fee and blinded bank account details attached makes sock puppet accounts more expensive and difficult

Fraud reports as protection against bank charge-backs and crime (stolen bank accounts)

Fees as protection against fake orders and spam

At least for the first phase there will be a limit for the trade volume, to limit the risk exposure

Compliant with the legal framework (at least as long Bitcoin is legal)

For more information, please check out these resources:

Webpage:

The source code at Github:

Whitepaper:

Graphical overview:

Videos:



Payment protocol diagram:

Risk analysis:

Arbitrator system:



Old bitcointalk thread (BANK RUN!): A few months ago, I started working on a P2P Fiat-Bitcoin exchange project (initially called BANK RUN! ).After a few iterations and refinements of the concept I created a proof of concept prototype demonstrating that the basic use cases are working both from a technical point of view as well as from usability.The project uses Java8/JavaFX with the BitcoinJ library and TomP2P as messaging/DHT solution.At the moment, we are two developers working fulltime on the project; currently, we are discussing and setting up a funding model.If you feel like contributing, please drop us a line at team@bitsquare.io or join us at our IRC channel @freenode #bitsquare.io.Here are the main points of the bitsquare project:For more information, please check out these resources:Webpage: https://bitsquare.io The source code at Github: https://github.com/bitsquare/bitsquare Whitepaper: https://bitsquare.io/whitepaper.pdf Graphical overview: https://bitsquare.io/overview.png Videos: https://vimeo.com/getbitsquare Payment protocol diagram: https://bitsquare.io/payment_protocol.png Risk analysis: https://bitsquare.io/risk_analysis.pdf Arbitrator system: https://bitsquare.io/arbitration_system.pdf Old bitcointalk thread (BANK RUN!): https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=462236 https://bisq.network | GPG Key: 6A6B2C46

k99



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Manfred Karrer







Sr. MemberActivity: 346Merit: 254Manfred Karrer Re: bitsquare.io - The P2P Fiat-Bitcoin Exchange June 11, 2014, 10:42:05 PM #7 Quote from: Mikez on June 11, 2014, 10:01:03 PM



A few first-glance questions:

Will will the fees be?

Do you thing having a fee for creating the account is the best way to fight spam?

Will there be escrow?



Looking forward to seeing P2P exchanges everywhere .

Sweet concept!A few first-glance questions:Will will the fees be?Do you thing having a fee for creating the account is the best way to fight spam?Will there be escrow?Looking forward to seeing P2P exchanges everywhere

There will be trading fees (offer creation, offer taking). Those are necessary to prevent spam and market manipulation (fake offers).

The registration fee helps also to prevent scam. In serious scams (bank charge backs) the account and the bank account data will be published to a fraud report, so he cannot use his account anymore (lose his registration fee) and cannot use his bank account anymore (he cannot create endless bank accounts).

There are arbitrators resolving disputes. They hold the 3. key in the 2of3 MultiSig fund, so they cannot run away with teh money they just can decide who gets the money in case of dispute.



The fees will also be used to help developing the project. Supporters donating for the development will become the fee receivers. So it is a kind of collective ownership. That at least is currently planned, but it is still in discussion and need more feedback from the community. There will be trading fees (offer creation, offer taking). Those are necessary to prevent spam and market manipulation (fake offers).The registration fee helps also to prevent scam. In serious scams (bank charge backs) the account and the bank account data will be published to a fraud report, so he cannot use his account anymore (lose his registration fee) and cannot use his bank account anymore (he cannot create endless bank accounts).There are arbitrators resolving disputes. They hold the 3. key in the 2of3 MultiSig fund, so they cannot run away with teh money they just can decide who gets the money in case of dispute.The fees will also be used to help developing the project. Supporters donating for the development will become the fee receivers. So it is a kind of collective ownership. That at least is currently planned, but it is still in discussion and need more feedback from the community. https://bisq.network | GPG Key: 6A6B2C46

k99



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Manfred Karrer







Sr. MemberActivity: 346Merit: 254Manfred Karrer Re: bitsquare.io - The P2P Fiat-Bitcoin Exchange June 14, 2014, 12:10:35 PM #19 Quote from: anu on June 13, 2014, 11:45:32 AM Quote from: k99 on June 13, 2014, 10:36:02 AM Quote from: anu on June 13, 2014, 10:06:33 AM Watching

Ah nice to see you here! Your project seems to be one of the very few other serious attempts to create a P2P exchange.

Ah nice to see you here! Your project seems to be one of the very few other serious attempts to create a P2P exchange.

Yes. Sorry, I find it hard to comment on bitsquare other that I wish you the best of luck. And that I find it regrettable that you did not consider to join ZeroReserve. My reason not to join Ripple were quite obvious - 3 letters suffice to explain it: XRP. May I ask, what was your reason not to join ZR?

Yes. Sorry, I find it hard to comment on bitsquare other that I wish you the best of luck. And that I find it regrettable that you did not consider to join ZeroReserve. My reason not to join Ripple were quite obvious - 3 letters suffice to explain it: XRP. May I ask, what was your reason not to join ZR?

I am not experienced with c++ (unfortunately), so that would be one reason I could not join ZeroReserve.

I am more or less familiar with the basics of Ryan Fuggers ripple system, but never delved deeper into it. Basically I find it a very interesting idea but I have some concerns with it:

For me it always felt a bit limited and hard to reach wider adoption due the difficulty of bootstrapping it. It would only work well if there are already a lot of people in...

My main interest was to create an excahnge which deals with the real fiat money not with IOUs. I know fiat is IOU as well but it the more universal accepted IOU. With all those crypto IOU systems I miss the part how they enforce and audit the reserve of the IOU. If I issue 100 000 EUR_IOUs, who checks/enforces that I am really be able to convert them to EUR if anyone wants that? Even if I have the 100 000 EUR as reserve, price volatility would need a constant update of that reserve. 1 EUR_IOU is not necessary equal to 1 EUR. We have seen that with MtGox, the funds there where basically low quality IOUs for BTC and Fiat. When it crashed much of those IOUs became worthless.

So I am missing the interface to the classic fiat world. I cannot pay my bills with EUR_IOU, so some conversion point is necessary, at least as long not a majority of real life entities are accepting crypto currencies.

Another problem I personally have with ripple style concepts is the combination of friendship relationships with money.

If I lend money from a friend and I am unable to pay it back, my friend can get in trouble as well and that could have influence to the friendship. All that can easily happen without any bad intention (accident, cannot work anymore,...). I prefer a system which is more abstract and handle those risky with insurance, like the banks are doing it. That does not imply that I am fan of Banks ;-)...



But I did not find time yet to read your whitepaper, so my concern might be wrong with your system, and as I said before, I am not soo familiar with the ripple concept. I am not experienced with c++ (unfortunately), so that would be one reason I could not join ZeroReserve.I am more or less familiar with the basics of Ryan Fuggers ripple system, but never delved deeper into it. Basically I find it a very interesting idea but I have some concerns with it:For me it always felt a bit limited and hard to reach wider adoption due the difficulty of bootstrapping it. It would only work well if there are already a lot of people in...My main interest was to create an excahnge which deals with the real fiat money not with IOUs. I know fiat is IOU as well but it the more universal accepted IOU. With all those crypto IOU systems I miss the part how they enforce and audit the reserve of the IOU. If I issue 100 000 EUR_IOUs, who checks/enforces that I am really be able to convert them to EUR if anyone wants that? Even if I have the 100 000 EUR as reserve, price volatility would need a constant update of that reserve. 1 EUR_IOU is not necessary equal to 1 EUR. We have seen that with MtGox, the funds there where basically low quality IOUs for BTC and Fiat. When it crashed much of those IOUs became worthless.So I am missing the interface to the classic fiat world. I cannot pay my bills with EUR_IOU, so some conversion point is necessary, at least as long not a majority of real life entities are accepting crypto currencies.Another problem I personally have with ripple style concepts is the combination of friendship relationships with money.If I lend money from a friend and I am unable to pay it back, my friend can get in trouble as well and that could have influence to the friendship. All that can easily happen without any bad intention (accident, cannot work anymore,...). I prefer a system which is more abstract and handle those risky with insurance, like the banks are doing it. That does not imply that I am fan of Banks ;-)...But I did not find time yet to read your whitepaper, so my concern might be wrong with your system, and as I said before, I am not soo familiar with the ripple concept. https://bisq.network | GPG Key: 6A6B2C46