michael barbaro

From The New York Times, I’m Michael Barbaro. This is “The Daily.” Today federal prosecutors were confident that this time justice would be served in the case of Jeffrey Epstein. So what happens to the case against him now that he’s dead? It’s Tuesday, August 13th.

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archived recording 1 In a year-long investigation, The Miami Herald says it has located 60 women who say they were molested or sexually assaulted by multi-millionaire Jeffrey Epstein. archived recording 2 I was 16. I started going to him when I was, like, 14. archived recording 3 Victims outraged that Epstein was allowed to plead guilty to two prostitution counts, getting just 13 months in county jail. archived recording 4 According to an extensive investigation by The Miami Herald, accused serial pedophile and multimillionaire Jeffrey Epstein got a sweetheart deal. archived recording 5 Today, we announce the unsealing of sex trafficking charges against Jeffrey Epstein. archived recording 6 This new indictment comes 11 years after Epstein reached a deal with attorneys in Florida to avoid a similar charge. archived recording 7 And while the charged conduct is from a number of years ago, it is still profoundly important to the many alleged victims now young women. They deserve their day in court, and we are proud to be standing up for them by bringing this indictment.

michael barbaro

Ben, tell me about this jail where Jeffrey Epstein was sent after being arrested a few weeks ago.

ben weiser

Epstein, right after his arrest, was sent to the Metropolitan Correctional Center in lower Manhattan. It’s often referred to as the M.C.C.

michael barbaro

Ben Weiser covers the federal courts in Manhattan.

ben weiser

It’s a federal detention facility built in the ‘70s holds about 800 people. And it’s actually well-known for its high, high security and probably for the notorious defendants who have been held there.

archived recording 1 The defendants convicted today would have killed within 48 hours literally thousands of innocent

ben weiser

Ramzi Yousef, who plotted and carried out the 1993 attack on the World Trade Center

archived recording 2 Gotti was said to be the most powerful crime figure in America.

ben weiser

The mob boss John Gotti. Bernie Madoff.

archived recording 3 The losses in an alleged Ponzi scheme run by money manager Bernard Madoff are still being calculated.

ben weiser

Who we all know stole billions of dollars.

archived recording 4 An extraordinary arrest operation for Mexico’s most notorious criminal. Joaquin “El Chapo” Guzman was arrested

ben weiser

Most recently El Chapo, the Mexican drug lord, was held there. And that’s the jail where Epstein was brought after his arrest last month.

michael barbaro

So this is a very logical place for a high profile billionaire accused of a kind of infamous crime to be held?

ben weiser

Yes, that’s right. Epstein was being held in what is known as the special housing unit or the SHU. And it’s a place where inmates are put often to protect themselves. Epstein’s crimes could have made him a real target for other prisoners. But Epstein would have been allowed to meet with lawyers regularly and for many hours a day. And he is, like almost everyone at the M.C.C., presumed innocent. He is pending trial. He has not been convicted. The judge set his trial date for next year next summer. He tried hard to get released on bail pending trial and had made a very unusual bail request where his lawyers asked the judge to allow him to essentially be subjected to home detention in a large mansion that he owns on the Upper East Side of Manhattan. And he would finance the cost of having private security guards guard him there and presumably keep him from fleeing. But the judge in this case, Richard Berman, dismissed it, making it very clear that he thought Epstein, because of his wealth, his properties around the world could have been a flight risk. But even more than that, the judge said he could be a danger to the community. So Epstein now, after being denied bail, is being held in the jail in that Special Housing Unit. And his lawyers were beginning to prepare his case. The government’s investigation was still continuing.

archived recording 1 Now on to the ongoing story of millionaire sex offender Jeffrey Epstein.

ben weiser

And then on Tuesday, July 23.

archived recording 2 Jeffrey Epstein was found on the floor of his cell, semi-conscious, in a fetal position, with marks around his neck.

ben weiser

Epstein was found injured on the floor of his cell.

archived recording 3 Two sources tell NBC news Epstein tried to hang himself.

ben weiser

And although the interviews were not said to be serious, it was seen as a possible suicide attempt. At the time, Epstein had a cellmate another prisoner named Nicholas Tartaglione, who’s a former police officer facing murder charges. And apparently, according to Tartaglione’s lawyers, the two men got along well.

archived recording 1 A fellow inmate was questioned after Epstein was found, but that inmate’s attorney says his client was not involved.

ben weiser

And I think there’s some sense that when Epstein was found injured that morning, it was his cellmate who called for the authorities. Epstein was treated at the hospital and brought back to the jail and was put under a suicide watch. It’s a 24-hour, very close monitoring he would receive daily psychiatric evaluations. But six days later less than a week jail officials concluded that he was no longer a threat to his own life and he was no longer on the suicide watch.

michael barbaro

And what kind of precautions are taken after someone like Epstein is taken off suicide watch? I have to imagine that there is still a tremendous amount of monitoring going on to kind of make sure that there’s not another attempt.

ben weiser

Our understanding is that Epstein, even after being removed from suicide watch, was supposed to have been checked by the guards in this protective unit every half hour. And he’s also placed with another cellmate a different one this time who is there to keep an eye on things, perhaps call for help if necessary, but so that he will not be alone.

michael barbaro

And what’s going on with Epstein’s case around this time? You mentioned that his lawyers are in and out of the jail briefing him.

ben weiser

That’s right. Epstein’s predicament was pretty dire. He had lost his attempt to be released on bail into a kind of home detention with guards. Any appeal of that was weak off. A trial with a year off then he faced the potential sentence for the rest of his life in prison. And he also had civil suits that were mounting, and that’s just based on the women who had sued before his arrest in New York. And finally, there was something else going on at the same time.

archived recording 1 A federal court releasing thousands of pages of documents related to convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein.

ben weiser

Just last week, a federal Court of Appeals released and posted online some 2,000 pages of documents.

archived recording 2 And analysts say the documents could contain potentially explosive new information on abuses by some very powerful people.

ben weiser

Newly released the whole trove of materials that provided even more disturbing details, I think, than had been known.

archived recording 3 She says she was forced to have sex with not only Epstein but high profile men, including former Maine senator

ben weiser

About what was going on inside Epstein’s mansion in Manhattan, at his home in Florida, how he and his associates recruited young women and girls.

archived recording 4 Included with the documents are photographs, including one previous released showing Epstein acquaintance Prince Andrew with his arm around the waist of Epstein accuser, Virginia Guiffre.

ben weiser

Essentially, an inside look at Jeffrey Epstein’s life and the sex trafficking operation. And these documents included depositions and police reports and receipts and flight logs and photographs. And there’s more to come. Next month, the court is going to look at a second, much larger trove of materials to see what should be released.

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ben weiser

And it’s impossible to get inside his head, but from a legal and objective perspective, the walls were closing.

michael barbaro

We’ll be right back. So, Ben, what happens on Saturday morning?

ben weiser

On Saturday morning at about 6:30, Epstein is found unresponsive in his cell in the S.H.U. at the M.C.C. Our understanding is that lifesaving measures were started immediately by responding jail officers. E.M.S. was summoned, and he was eventually rushed to a local hospital and was pronounced dead there. And I have to say the news exploded.

archived recording 1 We start this hour with breaking news. archived recording 2 Accused sex trafficker Jeffrey Epstein is dead. archived recording 3 Jeffrey Epstein has taken his own life. archived recording 4 While he was behind bars here in New York City facing charges of sex trafficking. archived recording 5 The F.B.I., the Department of Justice, and the New York City medical examiner’s office are all investigating his death.

ben weiser

As a reporter, my question was, how could this happen, particularly given the extra precautions that we understood had been taken after his first attempt?

michael barbaro

What have we found, given all those precautions, how this could have happened?

ben weiser

The detention center itself has not given any explanation other than the fact that he died there. We do know investigations are underway, and they are obviously focusing on that. But there has been information coming out. The president of the national unions that represent the guards at the M.C.C. have talked about the staffing shortages across the country in federal prisons and detention centers. And this jail has been short staffed for some time. We’re told, for example, that both of the guards that were on duty in the protective housing unit where Epstein was being held were working overtime one on his fifth straight day of overtime and the other apparently forced to come in to work overtime. And the union head would say that overnight checks, for example, in this protective unit are typically done, as we mentioned, every half hour. But sometimes that schedule varies. This union head would not discuss this specific case, other than to say that he was nearly certain that Epstein had a cellmate after he was removed from suicide watch. But, he said, I can tell you it is unequivocal that he did not have anyone with him when he committed suicide.

michael barbaro

Alone so suddenly no cellmate.

ben weiser

That’s correct.

michael barbaro

Ben, what happens to this case now? It’s a criminal prosecution with Jeffrey Epstein as the named defendant. And now that named defendant has taken his own life. So does that mean that this criminal case essentially dies with him?

ben weiser

Mike, when somebody is facing trial, is under indictment, is being prosecuted and dies whether it’s by suicide or a natural death or even in the case of Osama bin Laden, which was he was killed by the United States the case disappears. The criminal case disappears. There’s actually a very solemn filing of a document called a nol. pros., where the government goes to the courts and says, we are dropping the charges against so-and-so because that person has died. And one of the real concerns was with his death and with the end of the criminal case against Epstein, what did that mean? What did it mean for prosecutors and their investigation? And also what did it mean for victims those who wanted to see him come to justice and those who, perhaps, had sued him and wanted to recover damages. And one of the first things that happened in the hours after Epstein’s death was a statement by the United States Attorney in Manhattan, Jeffrey Berman, whose office was prosecuting Epstein, in which he made it clear that they were going to continue this investigation. And he specifically noted in a statement that the charges against Epstein had included a conspiracy count and that the investigation remained ongoing. And of course, that means that other people were also under investigation beyond Epstein.

archived recording (william barr) Before I begin, I’d like to briefly address news from the Manhattan Correctional Center over the weekend regarding Jeffrey Epstein.

ben weiser

And that was said by no one less than William Barr, the attorney general of the United States who was speaking in New Orleans on Monday.

archived recording (william barr) This sex trafficking case was very important to the Department of Justice and to me personally.

ben weiser

He said it was important to the dedicated prosecutors and agents who investigated the case and were preparing it for trial.

archived recording (william barr) Most importantly, this case was important to the victims who had the courage to come forward and deserve the opportunity to confront the accused in the courtroom.

ben weiser

And he also made clear that he said we are learning serious irregularities at the M.C.C. that are deeply concerning and that demand a thorough investigation. And just a reminder the Bureau of Prisons, which runs the M.C.C., is part of the Justice Department. So ultimately, Barr is the supervisor.

archived recording (william barr) We will get to the bottom of what happened, and there will be accountability. But let me assure you that this case will continue on against anyone who was complicit with Epstein. Any co-conspirators should not rest easy. The victims deserve justice, and they will get it.

michael barbaro

I wonder what does justice look like in this case now that Jeffrey Epstein is dead?

ben weiser

It’s a very important question. And in recent reporting by myself and the full team of reporters at The Times that have been looking into this, we’ve asked that question. And for many of the victims, there was the fear that Epstein’s death would bring to an end this second attempt to bring him to justice and that he had somehow, again, eluded prosecution in the same way he had eluded federal prosecution years earlier in Florida. But there are options. Lawyers representing victims have obviously brought lawsuits, and now those suits will be against Epstein’s estate. And we know the estate is very large. The government has said it’s at least half a billion dollars.

michael barbaro

Wow.

ben weiser

The United States attorney’s office also has an option and I think it’s going to happen to bring a civil forfeiture action. And all that really means is that they go after property like his $56 million mansion on the Upper East Side. And all they have to do is prove that it was used to help facilitate his crime to be able to seize it, sell it, and have the proceeds go to victims in one way or another. It’s the same procedure that was used to recover artworks stolen by the Nazis in World War II and return to the victims’ families. And one of the former prosecutors in that office who handled those kinds of cases told me the victims will lose the opportunity to face Epstein in court and to see him eye to eye and tell their story, but they can still work with the government to get that story out. Another person suggested that there are victims out there who might be feeling relieved, in a sense, of some of the fear that might have prevented them from coming forward while Epstein was alive. And I will say it seems summed up very well by one woman who has accused him and was one of the dozens of girls the Palm Beach police and the F.B.I. had found were recruited by Epstein. And she said I never wanted him to die. I just wanted him to be held accountable for his actions. And with his death and the case still going forward against others and lawsuits, the question will be can that be done?

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michael barbaro

Thank you, Ben.

ben weiser

Thank you, Mike.

michael barbaro

On Monday night, The Times reported that one of the two people guarding Epstein inside the Metropolitan Correctional Center was not a full-fledged correctional officer, and that neither guard had checked on Epstein for several hours before he was found dead. Meanwhile, F.B.I. agents and New York City detectives carried out a raid on Monday of Epstein’s 70-acre island in the U.S. Virgin Islands, looking for documents, photographs, videos, and computers that could be used in their ongoing prosecutions. We’ll be right back.

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michael barbaro

Here’s what else you need to know today.

archived recording (ken cuccinelli) President Trump’s administration is reinforcing the ideals of self-sufficiency and personal responsibility, ensuring that immigrants are able to support themselves and become successful here in America.

michael barbaro

On Monday, the Trump administration said it would make it harder for illegal immigrants who rely on government benefits like food stamps and subsidized housing to obtain permanent legal status in an attempt to reduce the number of poor immigrants.

archived recording (ken cuccinelli) Our rule generally prevents aliens who are likely to become a public charge from coming to the United States or remaining here and getting a green card.

michael barbaro

During a news conference, Ken Cuccinelli, the director of Citizenship and Immigration Services, said that the program would not apply to refugees, asylum seekers, immigrants who already have green cards, or pregnant women and children. But immigration advocates warn that large numbers of legal immigrants, including those not actually subject to the regulation, may give up needed benefits because they fear retribution from immigration officials.

archived recording (ken cuccinelli) So the benefit to taxpayers is a long term benefit of seeking to ensure that our immigration system is bringing people to join us as American citizens, as legal permanent residents first, who can stand on their own two feet.

michael barbaro