Louise Milligan says criminal behaviour, drug abuse and alcoholism ‘the trajectory of little children who were abused’

The ABC journalist Louise Milligan has told Cardinal George Pell’s defence barrister that victims of abuse were “torn apart by people like you” in courtrooms because they often had a trajectory of drug and alcohol abuse and crime that was used to discredit their story.

Material for Milligan’s book and reports about Pell were subpoenaed by Pell’s lawyers as part of his defence against historical sexual offence charges. In the committal hearing on Tuesday, she was cross-examined by defence barrister Robert Richter QC, who pressed her on the credibility of her sources given some had a criminal and psychiatric history and a history of substance abuse.

Milligan responded that in her book Cardinal: The Rise and Fall of George Pell she had written a chapter about credibility “and the process in which someone’s credibility is torn apart in this sort of forum because they have a criminal past”.

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“People who have a criminal trajectory and a trajectory of drug abuse and alcoholism and other ways which they go off the rails … that is precisely the trajectory of little children who were abused,” she said. “They could be torn apart by people like you.”

She told Richter that she set out covering the story “not believing George Pell was an abuser”. She added that when a story first broke in the Herald Sun that Pell was being investigated she was “annoyed” that her editors asked her to follow the story because she did not believe it was true.

But she investigated further, she said, and added that she stood by her subsequent reporting for the ABC’s 7.30 program, which aired historical abuse allegations against Pell in 2016.

The court also heard that one of the key people Milligan interviewed for 7.30 and for her book, who alleged Pell offended against him at a swimming pool, made different allegations regarding Pell to police than he later made to Milligan. Milligan said she was aware of the discrepancies as she had seen the police statement, and told the court she asked her source about them “because I was being a diligent journalist”.

She said that she discussed the issue with her managers and that her report revealed the witnesses, “blemishes and all”, including revealing their criminal history.

Milligan agreed with Richter than none of the friends of two of the alleged victims she interviewed said they had witnessed anything wrong occurring while attending the same pool. But she said they would not have necessarily seen it occurring.

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“Sexual abuse, as you know Mr Richter, is something that happens between two people,” Milligan said. “It is often hidden.”

Richter told Milligan her book was intended to pervert the course of justice. He criticised her for failing to put dates on some of her notes taken during interviews with witnesses, and told her to “stop being an advocate” and to just answer his questions.

Milligan responded that her book was “absolutely not” intended to pervert the court of justice.

When Richter put it to Milligan that some of her exchanges with a source were “charming if not flirtatious”, Milligan responded “I find that absolutely insulting. I think it is an absolutely sexist assertion.”

Richter told the court Milligan had “distorted what went to the public and she distorted it even more so in her book, so as to poison the public’s mind”.

“I absolutely reject that,” Milligan responded. The magistrate then urged Richter to act with respect and dignity.

“Respect and dignity for the cardinal’s innocence,” he replied.

Pell is the highest-ranking Vatican official to be charged in the Catholic church’s long-running sexual abuse scandal. He has taken leave from the Vatican in Rome to attend court. Further description of the charges cannot be given for legal reasons. He has strenuously denied all allegations.

When the hearing adjourns Wallington will need to decide if there is enough evidence to order Pell to stand trial accused of historical sexual offences.

Abuse survivors and their families, including long-time advocate Chrissie Foster, are in the court to show support to Milligan through her evidence.

The committal hearing continues.