Discussion

[Breakfast in Beauclair stinger by MojoFilter Media]

ALYSSA

Welcome to this episode of Breakfast in Beauclair. My name is Alyssa from GoodMorhen, and I'm excited to have my friends Jess and Crisanto back to discuss The Voice of Reason, the framing short story narrative in Andrezj Sapkowski’s The Last Wish. This is a story that introduces all the others throughout the completion and also explores Geralt's morality and inner conflicts.

JESS

Hi guys! We are sweating like goons over here. I’m actually like [Inaudible 2:49] like wiggling just like, “So, excited to be back.”

ALYSSA

So, Jess and Crisanto, this is your first dive into the Witcher saga. What did you guys think of it now that we're finally done with the book?

JESS

So, last week, we were discussing "The Last Wish." We read this chapter kind of in a vacuum. And we want to go back and read the whole entire thing to get into it, because we really liked it. And it totally holds up. I'm really enjoying the series so far. I'm gonna continue. So, I'll be reading along with the Sword of Destiny. And I listened to, like, all the episodes of the podcast as they come out. So --

ALYSSA

Yeah, you do.

JESS

I'm a fan of the podcast. I'm a fan of the books, reading The Voice of Reason, and just the whole book together. I think I have a better sense of who Geralt is as a person, as a character knowing that this is a very actiony book. I was surprised to see how the character studies that are worked into this were pretty strong. A lot of good stuff there.

CRISANTO

It's good following Geralt's journey in the Witcher, because it's not a massive world with, you know, a 200 character cast.

ALYSSA

Not yet.

CRISANTO

Oh, damn. Ooh. So, we're still in the infancy. But I do like following Geralt along his journey, but there are moments of farce and ridiculousness. And it's good seeing that not all of it is extremely grave circumstances. Geralt, you know runs into bouts of humor. You know, he has a best friend who's a bard, who's basically almost his polar opposite. There's a fierce romance. There's action, drama.There's racism. Oh, my god.

JESS

Oh, damn.

CRISANTO

And I do appreciate the Voice of Reason and how it really psychoanalyzes Geralt. You know, he's not just this Superman figure.

ALYSSA

That's kind of funny considering he's played by Henry Cavill.

JESS

Hey.

CRISANTO

Hey. But he’s a – he's a soft boy at heart.

ALYSSA

Yes. So, this just gives us, as Crisanto and Jess both alluded to, the opportunity to actually delve into who Geralt is as a person. The Voice of Reason, if you're listening along with us rather than reading the books, it's interspersed throughout each of the chapters as an interlude between each short story. And then it has its own story within it, which we'll talk about today. But the events of the Voice of Reason chronologically happen after each of the short stories. So, Geralt's, as he's kind of going through the Voice of Reason, is reminiscing on the previous events of his life, which are the short stories. Two different kinds of characters within this framing narrative. So, Part I starts with a two-page opening. An unnamed woman wakes and seduces the Witcher in the night.

JESS

Ey.

CRISANTO

Ey.

JESS

Ooh. And then it says something about like, “She wakes him up with her boobies.” Like --

ALYSSA

Yeah.

JESS

Like, she leans over him and just, like, kind of like wiggles.

ALYSSA

It sounds like she just kind of grazes her nipples over his eyeballs.

JESS

Yes. Oh, my god. So, when I read that, I was like, “Oh, it's like that. Okay.”

CRISANTO

What an opening.

ALYSSA

So, there was actually something very funny that went viral – well, "viral,” like, within the Witcher community. I think I came across it on Twitter, but it was from Reddit. And it was some poor person who jumped into one of the Witcher subreddits. They were like, “Can I watch this with my parents? Is it like Game of Thrones where there's a lot of sex, a lot of violence?” And then there was a second screenshot with, like, an edit line. And he was just like, “Okay, I get it.” And my – I think my response to that was to just like reference book one page one.

JESS

Yes. Literally. Like, the very first story, this is what you get. And we're like, “Okay. We have boobies. We're having boobies here.” What do you guys think was the purpose of having this as the very first story? So, what were your kind of first reactions when you're reading this? And what is Sapkowski trying to show? Like, what was the purpose? Personally, I thought that maybe he was just trying to establish Geralt as like this James Bond figure. Like, he's like this action guy who always gets the girl. And he has this, you know, sexual prowess. What do you think, Crisanto?

CRISANTO

I think Henry Cavill is gonna be a very happy man.

JESS

That's quite the opener.

CRISANTO

I think this milkshake was meant to bring all the boys to the yard. I mean, to be perfectly honest, I think it's compelling. An intro to the story should have a hook.

JESS

So, what you're trying to say is, like, this is trying to get, like, the kids interested in reading.

CRISANTO

Actually, yeah. But I mean it – I mean not to take away from its appeal. It's written very beautifully. Like, can I read the passage?

ALYSSA

Yeah, of course.

CRISANTO

Like the book literally opens up, she entered very carefully, moving silently, floating through the chamber like a phantom; the only sound was that of her mantle brushing her naked skin. Yet this faint sound was enough to wake the witcher – or maybe it only tore him from the half-slumber in which he rocked monotonously, as though traveling through fathomless depths, suspended between the sea bed and its calm surface amidst gently undulating strands of seaweed. I mean, in essence, yeah, he [Inaudible 7:29]. But --

CRISANTO

It's written so nicely.

CRISANTO

It's – yes. It’s written beautiful. It's, it's an allegory for floating between the seas. Like, how – that's, that's actually very beautiful establishing.

ALYSSA

In this first two-page opener, she's unnamed, The Witcher is unnamed. And he's only mentioned once as being the Witcher. The rest of the – of that page, he's only referred to as he. You're kind of thrown into this world without having any understanding of what's going on or any context. And then you just get this immediate sex scene. And then you go into the Witcher, which is a story with Foltest and the Striga.

CRISANTO

Why do you – why do you think Sapkowski started the book this way?

ALYSSA

It does, in some way, lend itself to the plot, ultimately. As we'll learn, it does have a sense of plot significance. But, in the context of the chapter that follows it, I don't know if it makes a ton of sense.

CRISANTO

Yeah.

ALYSSA

Like, it's immediately followed by the Witcher in which, you know, Geralt immediately comes in and slaughters a bunch of people and then – in, like, a tavern. So, in that sense, it doesn't really make a lot of sense.

JESS

It’s just for funsies.

CRISANTO

It's totally for the kids.

ALYSSA

I remember the first time that I read it, I was like, “Ah, okay.”

JESS

It's like that. Yeah.

CRISANTO

Yeah. Yeah.

ALYSSA

I think I had the same reaction that you guys did the very first time I read it.

CRISANTO

I think that proves that it's, it's actually quite effective. I mean, right?

JESS

Yeah. Yeah.

ALYSSA

Yeah. So, in Part II, Nenneke, the High Priestess of the temple of Melitele, wakes the witcher and the novice from Part I, Iola. In this part, we learn that this framing narrative takes place immediately after the events of “The Witcher” and Geralt is specifically to have this neck cared for and healed after the striga’s attack. Nenneke tries to talk Geralt into a trance to "see into the vortex of power surrounding him" and they've a brief debate regarding their views on religion and faith. To start off, this ends up, ultimately, being the introduction for “A Grain of Truth,” the story with Nivellen and the vampire, Vereena. We learn in it that Nenneke has known Geralt since he was a child. But, yeah, we start to get a lot more world-building in this section. So, we learn quite a bit about the cults of Melitele itself as well as Geralt's own morality when it comes to faith and belief and how it contrasts with the woman, who is the High Priestess of the temple.

JESS

Obviously, being the High Priestess, she's all in for this deity. Geralt is just totally the opposite. We're kind of seeing the contrast between her faith and his lack of faith.

CRISANTO

Nenneke, as like a matriarch for the temple, just wants to heal him. She senses something's very wrong with him. She tries to sell him on the concept of a trance. You know, she's using Iola as a medium, first, through physical contact and then spiritual. She wants to heal whatever is bothering Geralt. Geralt, being the pragmatist, the stoic, he doesn't buy it. There's a really – there's a really good passage here where you see the clash of beliefs where Geralt don't need no education. But Nenneke says, “Geralt, you’re sick.” He goes, “Injured, you mean.” “I know what I mean,” Nenneke says. “There's something not quite right with you. I can sense that.” Geralt says, “Why the metaphysics? I'll confide in you. I'll get a keg of beer so my throat doesn't dry up, and we could start today. But I feel I'll bore you because you won't find any nooses or vortexes here. Just ordinary witcher's tales.” So, yeah, he doesn't really buy into the religion. He doesn't buy into therapy, basically. He's a man of cold, hard logic, progressing forward through action, and not looking behind you.

ALYSSA

Yeah. And then he tells her, “Don't you think that my lack of faith makes such a trance pointless?” And she responds, “No, I don't. And do you know why? No.” The narrator says, “Nenneke leaned over and looked him in the eyes with a strange smile on her pale lips because it would be the first proof I've ever heard of that a lack of faith has any kind of power at all.”

CRISANTO

The check. Uh!

ALYSSA

She's so badass.

JESS

Yeah.

ALYSSA

Like, she is such an awesome ass character. And we're gonna get into the details of why her character almost evokes Calanthe from Episode Four despite or because of her place at the top of this religious hierarchy. She's just completely like – what's the word I'm looking for?

JESS

She's very competent?

ALYSSA

No, she can be irreverent.

JESS

Oh, yeah.

CRISANTO

Irreverent.

ALYSSA

Like, she's just like, “You're a little shit.” She actually says that --

JESS

Yes. Yes.

ALYSSA

-- at some in the chapter. She's like, “Stop being a little shit.”

JESS

Yes.

ALYSSA

It's just really funny. Kind of the contrast between I guess her position and her faith versus how she carries herself honestly.

JESS

Mhmm. She's pretty much saying, “It doesn't matter if you don't believe in this trance. I know this trance is gonna work.”

CRISANTO

You really see where their belief structures lie because she is the matriarch of this establishment. She, she believes in community. She believes in, you know, lending yourself to a higher power, service. While Geralt, it seems like he only believes in himself and his strength.

JESS

Yeah. It seems, for each person, they each believe what they want to believe because, whatever they're doing, it's working for them. Nenneke, whatever she's doing, you know, healing people and birthing babies, you know --

CRISANTO

Yeah.

JESS

-- what I'm doing is working. And Geralt is saying to her, “Well, what I'm doing is working too.” So, you've kind of got the clash of two people. Like, we both have an idea of what we believe or don't believe. So, you do you and me do me. But I think Nenneke is more of, “No, I don't want you to do you. I want you to do what I'm doing.”

ALYSSA

As, as most mothers would also say. She says repeatedly throughout this chapter, like, “I'm not your goddamn mother.” It's just very funny. We learn quite a bit about one of the religions on the continent, a religious cult for Melitele. The Cult of Melitele was one of the oldest and, in its day, one of the most widespread cults from time immemorial. Practically, every pre-human race and every primordial nomadic human tribe honored a goddess of harvest and fertility, a guardian of farmers and gardeners, a patroness of love and marriage. Many of these religions merged into the Cult of Melitele. And this excerpt kind of continues. Geralt references Dandelion. The reason why Melitele does so well and why she doesn't have to be worried about her religious congregation is because women will continue to give birth and they'll continue to want to yell at somebody.

JESS

It’s so good.

ALYSSA

And it's gonna happen till the end of time. So, they might as well yell to Melitele.

JESS

There you go.

ALYSSA

And that's how religions are made.

CRISANTO

I love how Sapkowski opens chapter up with this establishment, because it's, it's not too far different from the religions of today, whether it's Pagan or the monotheistic ones. There are temple. There are places of worship.

JESS

Actually, when you were kind of reading the passage, I was thinking, like, I feel like I've heard this conversation before. When I was in college, like, I got involved with a Christian group and something very common was like, “You look like you're having a bad day. Do you want to go to a prayer group with me?” And we’d be like, “Oh, okay.” You hear a lot of, like, the similar things when you're in that kind of Christian group. Like, oh, I have a friend. He's kind of drifting off. And he doesn't seem right. Like, we should pray for him or we should invite him to a small group Bible study or whatever.

ALYSSA

I think it's really interesting to hear about people's relationship with religion and with faith, you know, whether that's, as you said, denominational, non-denominational. It's very interesting to see, like, what people will hold on to, I guess. Like, I'm personally no longer religious. And, as I said, I went to Catholic school from the time I was five until the time I was about 14. I'm no longer really practicing. But, in times where I just don't really know what to do or if I'm in a serious situation, in an extreme case, I will just turn to prayer, because I've no idea what else to do.

JESS

Me too. Like, if I'm having some type of anxiety over something, I'll say a little prayer. And I'm like, “I don't know if this prayer is gonna work. But, by doing it, you know, it's not gonna hurt the situation. And it could even help the situation. I don't know if there's a God up there. But you know, may as well just kind of throw that out there.” Yeah. That's almost kind of what Nenneke and Geralt were discussing. You don't have to believe in it for it to be effective. So, just going back to what we were talking about before.

CRISANTO

But I do agree. When, when times are rough, I think prayer in itself – this is like the cold, dry logic behind it. But I think it contextualizes your problems. It zooms you out and allows you to look at your life, like, differently.

JESS

Although there is Christianity in Poland where the author is from, it seems like he's drawing from some type of pre-Christian religion.

CRISANTO

Mhmm.

JESS

Just the fact that it's, you know, a woman-centered temple. That's – I mean that is something altogether, because Christianity is heavily patriarchal.

CRISANTO

Mhmm.

JESS

To me, like reading this, it's almost like reading like a Greek myth or something --

CRISANTO

Mhmm.

JESS

-- just like a different pre-Christian religion.

CRISANTO

Nenneke is just imagining him try it.

JESS

Yeah. Yeah. I mean --

CRISANTO

Try it. Just, just try this therapy. Just, you know, give it a chance, and Geralt just won't buckle.

JESS

Yeah. So, it isn't even necessarily a religious thing. Like, someone could be like, “Hey, I think you should go to therapy. You should see someone, a counselor or someone.” He’s like, “No, no, no, no. I’m – I'm not about that.”

CRISANTO

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

ALYSSA

I mean it's definitely the kind of thing, where when you look at things like therapy or any kind of self help, it really does come down to that person actually wanting it for themselves.

JESS

Yes.

ALYSSA

You know, you can't really force someone to do anything like that. They have to be in a place of acceptance.

CRISANTO

Unless you're Nenneke.

JESS

That's – yeah. That's interesting. How, in certain contexts, even if you don't believe in it, it'll still work. Like, if you don't believe in Western medicine, but here I’ll give you antibiotics, it will still work.

CRISANTO

And that raises an interesting question. Like, I don't think any of these belief structures are fundamentally wrong, unless they tell you to hurt someone. It's interesting seeing the battle of wits here. Like, it makes you wonder what Geralt's pushback is. You know, what's wrong with him? What's Nenneke’s motivation? You know, does she actually have powers? Is she connected to a higher being like, legitimately? We're learning more about them.

ALYSSA

No, I think you got a good point, in that, it doesn't necessarily seem like they have completely different values.

CRISANTO

Mhmm.

ALYSSA

They definitely have different views, especially when it comes to religion and faith. But some of their core values of community self, just very generic things, aren't different on a very fundamental level. Just their expression of them is polarizing.

CRISANTO

Mhmm.

ALYSSA

In Part III, the temple is visited by knights from the Order of the White Rose, Falwick and Tailles, who are here specifically to remove Geralt from Ellander. They argue with Nenneke and Geralt and the section ends coldly between the Order, the witcher, and the priestess.

JESS

So, a quick rundown, Falwick is kind of like the good cop, and Tailles is kind of like the bad cop.

ALYSSA

Yeah. It's a little – it's a little strange. It's almost like Men in Black a little bit, but not --

JESS

Yeah. It’s kind of like a very level-headed guy who's Falwick. And then, Tailles, he’s kind of this youthfully, enthusiastic guy who's like rearing to go.

ALYSSA

Yeah. But they're both horribly, horribly cold and kind of evil. These two men from the Order of the White Rose, it says that they're part of this duke/prince. They keep kind of arguing over world titles. But they're here supposedly representing him in order to get the witcher out.

JESS

So, pretty much what happens is, like, the two guys – the two knights are, like, “Get out of here.” And they're like, “You can’t tell them what to do.”

ALYSSA

Yeah. It's almost like they will have their own jurisdiction within the temple. And Nenneke just rails on them there. Their – this is where we really get her and all of her irreverent splendor. She pulls out this little vial or container from her pouch. And she says, “I really don't know what will happen if I smash this container at your feet, Tailles. Maybe your lungs will burst. Maybe you’ll grow fur. Or maybe both, who knows? Only merciful Melitele.”

JESS

The scare tactics.

ALYSSA

And he responds, “Don't you dare threaten me with your spells priestess. Our soldiers –” and she cuts him off saying, “If anyone of your soldiers touches one of Melitele’s priestesses, they will hang, before dusk, along the road to town. And they know that very well. As do you, Tailles, so stop acting like a fool. I delivered you, you shitty brat, and I pity your mother but don’t tempt fate. And don’t force me to teach you manners!”

JESS

Fire.

ALYSSA

Ugh.

JESS

Yeah, I just – I just love the last two lines and, especially, “I delivered you, you shitty brat, and I pity your mother, don't tempt fate.” So, pretty much like she's, like, flexing on him.

ALYSSA

Oh.

JESS

So, she's now saying like, “If it weren't for me, you wouldn't be here. So, son, just don't.”

CRISANTO

What a flex! I've never heard that flex before. I delivered you. That's, that's something you would expect only a mailman would say.

JESS

Yeah. And it's such a good illustration of who she is in this community. So, aside from it being like a really good flex and saying like, “Respect your elders,” it's also asserting her importance in the community. You know she delivers baby. She brings life into the world. If it weren't for this temple, where would your mothers, and your sons, and your daughters be? So, narratively, I think it's kind of showing the importance of the temple locally in the community and on top of being just kind of like you better recognize.

CRISANTO

And she doesn't have to use violence. So, she's smart enough to use --

ALYSSA

Pure force?

CRISANTO

-- pure burns.

JESS

Pure burns. Yeah.

CRISANTO

Yeah, insane burns.

ALYSSA

I mean she says – at the very end, there's this passage here saying, “Did you hear, boys? The witcher will remain here for three days because that’s his fancy. And I, priestess of Great Melitele, will for those three days be his host, for that is my fancy.” And she, she answers burn by saying, “Tell that to Hereward. No, not Hereward. Tell that to his wife, the noble Ermellia, adding that if she wants to continue receiving an uninterrupted supply of aphrodisiacs from my pharmacy, she’d better calm her duke down. Let her curb his humors and whims, which look ever more like symptoms of idiocy.

JESS

Yeah. Nenneke has the dirt. Like, she knows, like, what aphrodisiacs, like, people are ordering. Like, because she's the one dishing it out. She's trying to say like, “You highborns want to pooh-pooh this priestess over here, yet who's coming knocking on my door? It's you guys.”

CRISANTO

It's a HIPAA violation, isn't it?

ALYSSA

Facts.

CRISANTO

Either way your wife uses these.

JESS

I don't know the exact page, but I know there's a point, where Tailles who's kind of like the hothead, he throws down his gauntlet. So, throwing down the gauntlet literally means like taking off your metal glove, which is the gauntlet, and throwing it down at the foot of the person that you want to challenge. So, he's saying, “I'm challenging you witcher. Like, get out of here. Like, let's fight this out.” And Nenneke was like, “Pick that up, you fool.” Like, “Put that away. This is my jurisdiction.”

ALYSSA

I'm pretty sure she says something that amounts to, like, don't litter. It undermines him so much.

JESS

Yeah.

ALYSSA

Because he's trying to have this really big, bold theatrical power move, and she's like, “Babe.”

JESS

Yes.

ALYSSA

What? Why?

JESS

So, aside from being sassy, she's kind of asserting that the rules of society out there are different.

ALYSSA

As I said, they've come here in order to kick Geralt out. And then Geralt says, “Listen, Falwick, I assure you that I will leave in a few days. I also assure you that I have no intention to work here, to undertake any commission's or orders. I'm not here as a witcher, but on personal business.” Count Falwick met his eyes and Geralt realized his mistake. There was pure unwavering hatred in the White Rose knight’s eyes. The witcher was sure that it was not Duke Hereward who was chasing him out, but Falwick and his like. / The knight turned to Nenneke, bowed with respect and began to speak. He spoke calmly and politely. He spoke logically. But Geralt knew Falwick was lying through his teeth. Falwick says, “Have I not made myself sufficiently clear, venerable Nenneke? I will make it so clear as can’t be clearer: neither the prince nor the Chapter of the Order will tolerate the presence of this witcher, Geralt, the Butcher of Blaviken, in Ellander for one more day.

CRISANTO

Who has jurisdiction here? You know, do the knights really have power in this region? Like, are they allowed to push against religious sects here? Sects. The religious sect that is at this tempo. All the while, Geralt is just watching these two duke it out in words.

JESS

Yeah. Actually, I can't decide if this temple is more like a religion like a church. Or, is it more of like a scientific institution? Because I'm kind of getting that sense. Like, when you deliver a baby, that is healthcare. I feel like it could represent either, both science and religion in this case. And that's interesting.

ALYSSA

I mean I think there could be like a very interesting conversation to be had around the idea of order and chaos. It's interesting to have this very strong sense of aggression under the impression of order coming from the members of the White Rose. And then you also have Nenneke, an aggressive feminine energy, coming into this from religion. Even though the order can represent the imposition of order, I feel like they do bring about like a kind of chaos and, like, aggression that's completely unnecessary In my opinion under the guise of law.

CRISANTO

It’s very likely that these knights are acting out of order. No pun intended. It's like extrajudicial. Like, it puts him in a tight spot, because he does have a sense of guilt. And he doesn't want to inconvenience the temple.

JESS

It's tough because he's trying to offer, like, an olive branch. And the two knights are saying, “No, just by you being here --

CRISANTO

Yeah.

JESS

-- our Prince is offended. So, you need to get out. Your very existence offends us.” Almost like this curse onto this place that is caring for him.

CRISANTO

Yeah.

ALYSSA

And, more specifically, Falwick references Geralt's title as the Butcher of Blaviken. So, there is a very specific reason for why they want him out. So, this interlude segues directly into the Lesser Evil, where we learn how Geralt got that name and why he's so infamous. After the Lesser Evil, we move into Part IV. Geralt’s monologues to the mute Iola. In it, we see more of his inner conflicts, learn about his experiences as a young witcher in Kaer Morhen, hear him recount his youthful idealism hardening into realism, and insight into his more recent moments of regret in Blaviken and Cintra. So, this is a really interesting chapter, because the entire thing is exclusively Geralt's dialogue. He's talking to Iola, who is mute. So, obviously, she doesn't say anything back. But, in it, there are moments where he reacts to some sort of feedback that he's getting from her.

JESS

Yeah. The silence almost kind of makes him uncomfortable. And he tries to fill it in. And he’ll be like, “I know what you're thinking.” But, well, actually --”

CRISANTO

This is – this is a huge chapter for Geralt.

ALYSSA

There's a lot of exposition of who he is as a person --

CRISANTO

Yeah.

ALYSSA

-- and his past, and how he views himself.

CRISANTO

This is actually one of the very few instances where we see him truly vulnerable because Geralt is typically reacting to outside circumstances. He's reacting to danger. He's reacting to stress, tension. But, in, like, this particular instance, it's just him and a mute woman. So, there's no one to bounce his ideas off of except himself. So, I felt, for this particular passage of the Voice of Reason, like, this is his trance. Like, he's, he’s letting go.

JESS

I think the fact that she's mute also plays into that as well. He is going to [Inaudible 25:25] Oh, my god.

ALYSSA

Yeah.

CRISANTO

Yeah.

JESS

So, this is his therapy.

CRISANTO

Yeah.

JESS

Yeah. Because, like, if you go to a therapist, everything has to stay confidential. She doesn't talk. So, he's able to be vulnerable, and tell the truth, and really reflect on things that he probably hasn't said out loud to other people before.

ALYSSA

And it's interesting, because it's noted throughout the entirety of the Last Wish, that, very often, Geralt is just silent. And, even, actually, as they've been recording the Netflix series, it might have been the Showrunner Lauren Hissrich, but it could have been someone else that said Geralt is rather silent. And a lot of the acting required for this role did have to be nonverbal. And that's just inherent to his character. So, we have something really special here and unique and getting like pages of monologue from him.

JESS

Yeah. And it's a little bit of a surprise too, because sometimes, when you encounter someone who's really quiet, you just think that there's, like, nothing going on up there in the noggin. And I get that a lot, because I'm very quiet and very, very shy. But I like that this illustrates that people who are quiet, it's usually because they have, like, a very rich inner life and inner monologue. So, he's kind of like spilling out all of this stuff that has been kept silent, but it's, it's there. It's just that he's never expressed it out loud before.

CRISANTO

What I really like about this part of the Voice of Reason begins with two zingers. We, we see, like, Geralt – one, he believes physical strength is a virtue. And, two, he is vulnerable. There is a part of him that's insecure in his own outlook in the world. That's huge.

JESS

Yeah. I think of the last few lines, “But my faithlessness can do nothing. It's powerless.” I think his conversation with Nenneke kind of got to him because they were talking about faith and what power it has. So, he's kind of reflecting like, you know, “What does my lack of faith do for me? It does absolutely nothing. So, even if I don't believe in this deity, I mean I respect what you're – what you're doing, your sacrifice.”

CRISANTO

He has this little side about his swords and how he carries a one silver sword and one iron sword. He says that people think it's because the silver sword is to slay special demons. When in actuality, it's both of them. So, it's such a minor detail, but it conveys to the audience that he himself actually feels misunderstood by the world. They don't understand him and his trade fully. And that's not something like a fully secure person would say, you know.

ALYSSA

You know, we're gonna learn a lot more about the history of witchers, the misunderstanding around them, and the context for why they are so few in future chapters. But we do get a little bit here in Geralt's monologue to Iola. He talks about his history at Kaer Morhen as well as with the Trial of the Grasses. So, he says, “Yes, Kaer Morhen. I underwent the usual mutation there, through the Trial of Grasses, hormones, herbs, viral infections. And then through them all again. And again, to the bitter end. Apparently, I took the changes unusually well; I was only ill briefly. I was considered to be an exceptionally resilient brat . . . and was chosen for more complicated experiments as a result. They were worse. Much worse. But, as you see, I survived. The only one to live out of all those chosen for further trials. My hair’s been white ever since. Total loss of pigmentation. A side-effect, as they say. A trifle. We also get a little bit here about one of the other witchers that's at Kaer Morhen. Geralt's mentions Vesemir. He says, “So, what if he isn't my real father? I didn't know my parents.” We kind of get an understanding even very briefly of what could be a longing for family and a hope for found family in the future.

JESS

So, this is interesting when you hear about the trials to become witchers when he's having this monologue saying, “I respect your choice. I respect your sacrifice.” And that's interesting to me because it sounds like he sacrificed a lot, too. You hear how hard it is to become a witcher and, like, all the experiments that he went through because he was so resilient to them. They just pushed him, and pushed him, and pushed him until his hair went white. So --

ALYSSA

It's like a presidency.

CRISANTO

[Inaudible 29:14] or parenthood.

JESS

Yeah. And it's not just that his hair was white. He probably feels like he lost a little bit of his humanity through that process. So, he has sacrificed a lot. So, he's not giving himself enough credit.

ALYSSA

I, I think that there's some context to be added here along with that analysis. For a little bit of background about witchers, they’re chosen. They don't choose to become a witcher. So, I wonder if it's sacrifice or it was really suffering that it came down to. I feel like there's a certain amount of consciousness and acceptance in sacrifice. I guess, at some point, you would have the acceptance of what has happened. But this does seem to be something that happened to him. And there's a certain amount of suffering associated with this event that has changed the course of his life.

CRISANTO

I think here we see the trauma that Nenneke is talking about. He seems deeply scarred, but he never actually says it. It's always in our description of the circumstance. In this passage, he doesn't internalize it. He just says, “Oh, they were terrible experiments. I was the only survivor.” And then he just keeps going on. Like, you realize that he doesn't cover his feelings or trauma. He doesn't describe it even as trauma. He just says, “They were terrible.” And then he keeps – he just keeps going. Like, like --

JESS

Yeah. It reminded me of the way, umm, like, older generations reflect about war.

CRISANTO

Yeah.

JESS

And they get – they’re kind of touching it. And they're just like, “Yeah. Well, that was – that was war. That was then. This is now. Let's not talk about it.” Just because the trauma was too great, and the shame was too great, and they don't talk about it.

CRISANTO

It's interesting. Yeah. People internalize tragedy in different ways. And then you'll have the select few who just bottle up and don't talk about it.

JESS

Mhmm.

CRISANTO

And they're – they're still dealing with it. That line here where he talks about his hair. Like, he's a young man with white hair from experimentation. And he just glosses it over. Like, what kind of person is Geralt?

JESS

And it's kind of like a daily reminder of, like, this is the trauma that I went through. People see it. And --

ALYSSA

I mean it defines him physically and even Calanthe I think, in A Question of Price, mentions this. “He's the white-haired Witcher. And he's famous, and people sing about him at fairs.” And that's what identifies him really. And, as you say, it's kind of a daily reminder of the suffering and scarring experiences that he went through as a child in order to become something greater than what he could have been.

JESS

It depends on how he thinks about it. But just the fact that there was trauma there, and there's a physical record of it, and it's just there everyday for everyone to see.

ALYSSA

We also learn quite a bit about Geralt's progression and fall from idealism. The first monster that he met wasn't, you know, a Wyvern. It wasn't a dragon. It wasn't a striga. It was a human. And this is a huge concept that we see throughout this series and also that they're bringing to the Netflix show.

JESS

I'm a witcher to protect humanity. And, yet, humanity, like, are they worth my protection? I mean, it kind of confronts him with, “Is it all worth it? I don't know.”

CRISANTO

Yeah. It's tragic. We can see that there is humanity in Geralt. And, like, he's just super stoic and, as we see, just very jaded by his early experiences.

ALYSSA

He seemed to think of himself almost as a knight errand and his very early days. There is a lot of context in the world and, as we said, a lot of misunderstanding about what witchers are. And there's the impression that the Trial of the Grasses, what turns human boys into witchers, strips them of their emotions. And I think what we see here is that's, ultimately, not the case, whether that's for Geralt or whether that's for witchers as an entire cast. You know, obviously, we're not really sure. But, at least, for Geralt's in this moment, we see all of this vulnerability and all of this emotion come pouring out of him to Iola.

CRISANTO

Geralt is such a sad boy. Oh, man. At least, I got it from this is that he attaches a huge part of his identity to his occupation.

JESS

Mhmm

ALYSSA

Huge danger for anybody.

CRISANTO

Yeah, which is a shame because he – you know, there's monetary reward in it. But, spiritually, it's kind of left him empty.

JESS

Yes, it's consumed him. So, it's really, like, his life.

CRISANTO

This man needs a new job.

JESS

Yeah. So, check that the wanted ads and everything. Or, they don't have wanted ads anymore. It has to be – what?

ALYSSA

Facebook posts.

JESS

Yeah, Facebook posts and idealist.org or whatever.

CRISANTO

Yeah.

JESS

Monster.com. But even that's kind of dated.

ALYSSA

There's funny puns --

JESS

Oh, my god.

ALYSSA

-- to be said on monster.com.

JESS

Yes. Oh, my god. That was totally by accident, but we're gonna pretend that that was intentional. Yeah.

ALYSSA

I forgot that it was the job site to be honest.

JESS

Yeah. Monster.com is pre-LinkedIn job board.

CRISANTO

Geralt can make a killing into age.

ALYSSA

Oh, no. So, there's an interesting passage here where he admits to Iola something that I think is a little unexpected. The passage reads, “Mistakes? Of course, I’ve made them. But I keep to my principles. No, not the code. Although I have at times hidden behind a code. People like that. Those who follow a code are often respected and held in high esteem. But no one’s ever compiled a witcher’s code. I invented mine. Just like that. And keep to it. Always. Well, not always. There have been situations where it seemed there wasn’t any room for doubt. When I should say to myself, ‘What do I care? It’s nothing to do with me. I’m a witcher.’ When I should listen to the voice of reason. To listen to my instinct, even if it’s fear.” But there are multiple times, where we saw throughout The Last Wish compilation, that people have asked about Geralt’s witcher code. And Geralt always has something to reference from it just off the top of his head. He's like, “I won't kill intelligent creatures,” in The Edge of the World. “It's part of my code.” Or I think Foltest even asks him, like, about his code, and Geralt is like, “Ah, yes, the code.” And he references something out of his ass. But it turns out, like, as we learned in this interlude, yo, there is none.

JESS

Yeah. It really is kind of coming out of his ass. It's just, like, whatever he wants to do, he'll do it. He’ll just like, “Sorry, you don't know about this witcher’s code. Umm, it's very important. And --

CRISANTO

He's just making shit up as it goes. Oh, man.

JESS

That's genius.

CRISANTO

Yeah.

ALYSSA

But he does have principles. Like, that's, that's the thing about it. I think there's something to be said about his farce of having them be almost standardized and the impression that they are something universal when really they are his own values at points when they come up throughout the series. Yeah. For example, like not killing Torque, the Sylvan, in the Edge of the World. They come from a place of, I think, compassion, and vulnerability, and empathy for others. I don't think it's a bad thing. And I think it's interesting that these are unique to Geralt and that he's formulated them on their own because it says a lot about his character and his desires about how to fit into the world.

JESS

Sometimes, he lives up to it. Sometimes, he breaks it. And that just shows he still has this humanity about him. And he, definitely – yeah.

CRISANTO

It ends with him bringing back up his title as Butcher of Blaviken. The Voice of Reason, not the story but, like, the actual concept of the Voice of Reason, is, I think, a recurring theme here. But let's say you touch it like the code of principles. Like, what's the best possible decision in difficult circumstances? When it comes to the tragedy at Blaviken, he seems deeply scarred. He feels like he's still made the wrong decision. You see that he's still conflicted because he still is trying to find his own code. Yet, he's hated for it. That's actually very tragic if you think about it.

ALYSSA

The actual excerpt here continues. And he says, “I should have listened to the voice of reason that time. I didn't. I thought I was choosing the lesser evil. I chose the lesser evil. Lesser evil! I’m Geralt! Witcher. I’m the Butcher of Blaviken.” And, so, you see that this has become not only a part of his external identity within the context of the world, but this is something that he's brought internally and has really scarred him.

JESS

So, what I like about the format of this interstitial story. It's coming in between every main story. So, here if you had just read The Lesser Evil and just, like, stopped there, you wouldn't have realized that Geralt is actually having regrets about his decision. It continues the story outside of the story. And you see kind of his reflections and things like that.

ALYSSA

So, the last little bit we get here talks about Gerald's experience in Cintra, which is a lead into the fourth story "A Question of Price." And Geralt says:

[Reading] “I know my fate whirls about me like water in a weir. It’s hard on my heels, following my tracks, but I never look back. A loop? Yes, that’s what Nenneke sensed. What tempted me, I wonder, in Cintra? How could I have taken such a risk so foolishly? No, no, no. I never look back. I’ll never return to Cintra. I’ll avoid it like the plague. I’ll never go back there. Heh, if my calculations are correct, that child would have been born in May, something around the feast of Belleteyn. If that’s true, it’s an interesting coincidence. Because Yennefer was also born on Belleteyn’s…”

And he goes off. So, this introduces A Question of Price. And, before we start talking about that, you know, interstitials that follow, we're gonna take a quick break for Lars from Witcherflix. And, when we return, Jess, Crisanto, and I will continue with “The Voice of Reason”.