Jorge Ramos spoke to Mario Bramnick, a Cuban-American evangelical pastor who met with the presumptive Republican nominee as a representative of the National Hispanic Christian Leadership Conference (NHCLC). The pastor said Trump toned down his stance on immigration during their meeting, showing much more understanding and concern for the immigrant community than ever before.

“Really, Pastor?” Ramos asked. “I mean, what he said is completely different.”

“I know, but sometimes I think there’s a difference between rhetoric and policy,” Bramnick replied.