darkscream Profile Blog Joined December 2010 Canada 2307 Posts #2 I would just love to see the same kind of layout for how you'd do it against Zerg (mostly because I want to thwart you)

PhiliBiRD Profile Joined November 2009 United States 2637 Posts #3 once a toss sees your simply massing marines, cant he just expand defend and mass colussus/sentry?

Jimmeh Profile Blog Joined January 2010 United Kingdom 908 Posts Last Edited: 2011-03-12 00:56:58 #4



Either way, nice to see someone else try this. Although now every Protoss on the ladder is going to start preparing for this and I was enjoying being the only mass marine Terran .





I've been doing mass marine vs Protoss for a while now and I agree it's pretty effective. My style's different and does involve reactors but is done in a such a way to avoid any mineral surplus. My way allows me to get a 3rd up much faster than your build would simply because I'm not having to spend 150minerals on extra rax constantly. Plus, since both of our builds involve being aggressive almost non-stop, I find it extremely beneficial to take an extremely fast third as there's just no way they can attack it (you make a similar point in the OP).Either way, nice to see someone else try this. Although now every Protoss on the ladder is going to start preparing for this and I was enjoying being the only mass marine Terran On March 12 2011 09:48 PhiliBiRD wrote:

once a toss sees your simply massing marines, cant he just expand defend and mass colussus/sentry?



Colossus and sentry are both extremely gas heavy units so there is literally no way he can mass both. Further more, due to how long it takes to get colossus (not too long but long enough), you can simply over whelm them either before colossus are out or before they're in too great a number to actually do much damage. Colossus and sentry are both extremely gas heavy units so there is literally no way he can mass both. Further more, due to how long it takes to get colossus (not too long but long enough), you can simply over whelm them either before colossus are out or before they're in too great a number to actually do much damage.

Kyadytim Profile Joined March 2009 United States 766 Posts #5 It would be awesome for Protoss and Zerg if the general gameplan of mass Marine is so effective it results in a Marine nerf.

Other than that, I think the best way to destroy this build is keeping the Colossi from being sniped by playing carefully with them until range comes out. It always seems stupid to me when a Protoss engages Terran infantry with rangeless Colossi on open ground, even somewhat when they have a bunch of forcefields to control the ground.

I also think that a 3-gate sentry expand might cause this build problems on maps that aren't metalopolis or shattered temple, and the Protoss can build a bunch of stalkers to support the sentries and combine splitting the marines with forcefield and good use of guardian shield to kill a good part of your initial army without taking much permanent damage.

justindab0mb Profile Joined October 2010 United States 212 Posts #6 and Protoss!



User was temp banned for this post. Yay now Terrans can mass pure marines against ZergProtoss! "Hi there! I'm a big fan of all-ins, and I also play Terran"

Jimmeh Profile Blog Joined January 2010 United Kingdom 908 Posts Last Edited: 2011-03-12 01:07:40 #7 On March 12 2011 10:00 justindab0mb wrote:

Yay now Terrans can mass pure marines against Zerg and Protoss!



And Terran.



I don't get why people complain about pure marines. Yes, I can kind of see the argument on how it's stupid that a Terran can stay on T1 all game. But the thing is going mass marine vs any race is probably the hardest style in the game. Once the opponent has got a unit with any form of splash damage (hellions, tanks, banelings, infestors, colossus, high templar) it becomes stupidly hard to stick with pure marines. You have to have amazing control and, often, the slightest mistake means you lose straight away. Often it's better to just go other styles because it's so much easier than pure marine. I'd love to see any Zerg/Protoss player who complains about mass marine ITT try it and see how well they do.



And Terran.I don't get why people complain about pure marines. Yes, I can kind of see the argument on how it's stupid that a Terran can stay on T1 all game. But the thing is going mass marine vs any race is probably the hardest style in the game. Once the opponent has got a unit with any form of splash damage (hellions, tanks, banelings, infestors, colossus, high templar) it becomes stupidly hard to stick with pure marines. You have to have amazing control and, often, the slightest mistake means you lose straight away. Often it's better to just go other styles because it's so much easier than pure marine. I'd love to see any Zerg/Protoss player who complains about mass marine ITT try it and see how well they do. I also think that a 3-gate sentry expand might cause this build problems on maps that aren't metalopolis or shattered temple, and the Protoss can build a bunch of stalkers to support the sentries and combine splitting the marines with forcefield and good use of guardian shield to kill a good part of your initial army without taking much permanent damage.



As mentioned in the OP (which I'm guessing you didn't read fully), the build relies on being constantly aggressive. You expect to lose your first wave of marines but, by attacking, you make them use up all their sentry energy. By the time your next wave comes, they'll only have enough energy for a couple forcefields at most so you can at least snipe the sentries. Then, once their sentries are gone, the constant pressure means they just fold after a while. As mentioned in the OP (which I'm guessing you didn't read fully), the build relies on being constantly aggressive.but, by attacking, you make them use up all their sentry energy. By the time your next wave comes, they'll only have enough energy for a couple forcefields at most so you can at least snipe the sentries. Then, once their sentries are gone, the constant pressure means they just fold after a while.

justindab0mb Profile Joined October 2010 United States 212 Posts #8 On March 12 2011 10:02 Jimmeh wrote:

Show nested quote +

On March 12 2011 10:00 justindab0mb wrote:

Yay now Terrans can mass pure marines against Zerg and Protoss!



And Terran.



I don't get why people complain about pure marines. Yes, I can kind of see the argument on how it's stupid that a Terran can stay on T1 all game. But the thing is going mass marine vs any race is probably the hardest style in the game. Once the opponent has got a unit with any form of splash damage (hellions, tanks, banelings, infestors, colossus, high templar) it becomes stupidly hard to stick with pure marines. You have to have amazing control and, often, the slightest mistake means you lose straight away. Often it's better to just go other styles because it's so much easier than pure marine. I'd love to see any Zerg/Protoss player who complains about mass marine ITT try it and see how well they do. And Terran.I don't get why people complain about pure marines. Yes, I can kind of see the argument on how it's stupid that a Terran can stay on T1 all game. But the thing is going mass marine vs any race is probably the hardest style in the game. Once the opponent has got a unit with any form of splash damage (hellions, tanks, banelings, infestors, colossus, high templar) it becomes stupidly hard to stick with pure marines. You have to have amazing control and, often, the slightest mistake means you lose straight away. Often it's better to just go other styles because it's so much easier than pure marine. I'd love to see any Zerg/Protoss player who complains about mass marine ITT try it and see how well they do.



I never complained about pure marines.



But OT: I offrace as terran in teamgames and I always just mass marine medivac every game with really quick upgrades. The only problems I have are colossi, high templars and infestors. You can split against banelings, and marines will tear apart pretty much everything else... I always found marines to be the most effective vs protoss so I never understood why everyone makes so many marauders. I think a few marauders for conc shells is good, but the majority of your army should be marines.. idk, just my opinion I never complained about pure marines.But OT: I offrace as terran in teamgames and I always just mass marine medivac every game with really quick upgrades. The only problems I have are colossi, high templars and infestors. You can split against banelings, and marines will tear apart pretty much everything else... I always found marines to be the most effective vs protoss so I never understood why everyone makes so many marauders. I think a few marauders for conc shells is good, but the majority of your army should be marines.. idk, just my opinion "Hi there! I'm a big fan of all-ins, and I also play Terran"

Jimmeh Profile Blog Joined January 2010 United Kingdom 908 Posts #9 On March 12 2011 10:07 justindab0mb wrote:

Show nested quote +

On March 12 2011 10:02 Jimmeh wrote:

On March 12 2011 10:00 justindab0mb wrote:

Yay now Terrans can mass pure marines against Zerg and Protoss!



And Terran.



I don't get why people complain about pure marines. Yes, I can kind of see the argument on how it's stupid that a Terran can stay on T1 all game. But the thing is going mass marine vs any race is probably the hardest style in the game. Once the opponent has got a unit with any form of splash damage (hellions, tanks, banelings, infestors, colossus, high templar) it becomes stupidly hard to stick with pure marines. You have to have amazing control and, often, the slightest mistake means you lose straight away. Often it's better to just go other styles because it's so much easier than pure marine. I'd love to see any Zerg/Protoss player who complains about mass marine ITT try it and see how well they do. And Terran.I don't get why people complain about pure marines. Yes, I can kind of see the argument on how it's stupid that a Terran can stay on T1 all game. But the thing is going mass marine vs any race is probably the hardest style in the game. Once the opponent has got a unit with any form of splash damage (hellions, tanks, banelings, infestors, colossus, high templar) it becomes stupidly hard to stick with pure marines. You have to have amazing control and, often, the slightest mistake means you lose straight away. Often it's better to just go other styles because it's so much easier than pure marine. I'd love to see any Zerg/Protoss player who complains about mass marine ITT try it and see how well they do.



I never complained about pure marines.



But OT: I offrace as terran in teamgames and I always just mass marine medivac every game with really quick upgrades. The only problems I have are colossi, high templars and infestors. You can split against banelings, and marines will tear apart pretty much everything else... I always found marines to be the most effective vs protoss so I never understood why everyone makes so many marauders. I think a few marauders for conc shells is good, but the majority of your army should be marines.. idk, just my opinion I never complained about pure marines.But OT: I offrace as terran in teamgames and I always just mass marine medivac every game with really quick upgrades. The only problems I have are colossi, high templars and infestors. You can split against banelings, and marines will tear apart pretty much everything else... I always found marines to be the most effective vs protoss so I never understood why everyone makes so many marauders. I think a few marauders for conc shells is good, but the majority of your army should be marines.. idk, just my opinion



Sorry, I read your post as being really sarcastic. Every Protoss I've gone pure marine against has said something like "lol terran", "rofl terran so retarded", "look t1 beats everything" etc. I kinda just assumed that, by you saying "look now Terran can go mass marines vs everything!" you were trolling.



And I agree that it's always good to get at least 4 marauders late mid-game, simply to soak any initial splash damage. Run marauders in, then marines and everything the enemy has will evaporate if you micro correctly. Sorry, I read your post as being really sarcastic. Every Protoss I've gone pure marine against has said something like "lol terran", "rofl terran so retarded", "look t1 beats everything" etc. I kinda just assumed that, by you saying "look now Terran can go mass marines vs everything!" you were trolling.And I agree that it's always good to get at least 4 marauders late mid-game, simply to soak any initial splash damage. Run marauders in, then marines and everything the enemy has will evaporate if you micro correctly.

JerKy Profile Blog Joined January 2011 Korea (South) 2321 Posts #10 If you can pull this off, fighting marines vs x-unit puts Terran at advantage.

Similar to TvZ scenarios, sacrificing any type of gas-requiring unit to kill marines is NOT cost effective. You're using gas to kill something that doesn't require gas to make (although the upgrades to require gas)



One of my partners used a similar build: just lots and lots of marines.

I went chargelot-colosus to counter it. He hard-transitioned into hellion thor (he had expanded aggressively) and I couldn't get out enough cost-effective units to stop mass hellion/thor.

(Hellions are really good fodder units btw, much like vultures) You can type "StarCraft" with just your left hand.

Suerte Profile Joined July 2010 United States 117 Posts #11 How do you plan on holding off a simple Zealot/Stalker poke to your front at the very beginning of the game? Your early game is dangerously vulnerable to this it would appear.

Veasel Profile Joined September 2010 Sweden 159 Posts #12 Bigger question. How do you planning on taking on stalkers before you have stim? Mass bunkers? Rest in Piece

Fruscainte Profile Blog Joined December 2009 4343 Posts #13 On March 12 2011 11:13 Veasel wrote:

Bigger question. How do you planning on taking on stalkers before you have stim? Mass bunkers?



Did you even WATCH the first video? Did you even WATCH the first video?

Carbonthief Profile Joined October 2010 United States 288 Posts #14 Ok, theorycraft:



As a way of fighting this build, what do you think about 1 gate expand into 6 gate blink stalkers with double forge ups, but instead of the normal double ups you get armor and shield instead of weapons and armor, and THEN after the first set finishes get weapons and the next armor at the same time?

Fruscainte Profile Blog Joined December 2009 4343 Posts #15 On March 12 2011 11:24 Carbonthief wrote:

Ok, theorycraft:



As a way of fighting this build, what do you think about 1 gate expand into 6 gate blink stalkers with double forge ups, but instead of the normal double ups you get armor and shield instead of weapons and armor, and THEN after the first set finishes get weapons and the next armor at the same time?



I'm pretty sure this would kill you before you could get 1-2-1. I'm pretty sure this would kill you before you could get 1-2-1.

Carbonthief Profile Joined October 2010 United States 288 Posts #16 On March 12 2011 11:29 Fruscainte wrote:

Show nested quote +

On March 12 2011 11:24 Carbonthief wrote:

Ok, theorycraft:



As a way of fighting this build, what do you think about 1 gate expand into 6 gate blink stalkers with double forge ups, but instead of the normal double ups you get armor and shield instead of weapons and armor, and THEN after the first set finishes get weapons and the next armor at the same time?



I'm pretty sure this would kill you before you could get 1-2-1. I'm pretty sure this would kill you before you could get 1-2-1.



Could you not use other tactics to keep you alive during this time? Standard zealot sentry stalker play, and then you finally get your mass blink stalkers going, and blink micro your way to victory? Could you not use other tactics to keep you alive during this time? Standard zealot sentry stalker play, and then you finally get your mass blink stalkers going, and blink micro your way to victory?

iChau Profile Joined December 2010 United States 1209 Posts #17 I love this style even though I'm protoss. Once you get stim you can be so aggressive it's not even funny. Just decimating the mineral line with 4-8 stimmed marines while building up a middle-sized force of marines to get ready to attack is freaking strong, us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/1688911/1/SaniShahin/ | http://teamenvy.net/

Senorcuidado Profile Joined May 2010 United States 667 Posts #18 Have you tried medivacs with the mass marines? They make marines even more effective in the small numbers, let you stim a little more freely, and most importantly guarantee that you can force multiple small battles at once with multi-pronged drops while attacking the front.



The downside of course is that they'll eat into your marine count and you wouldn't be able to skip all those refineries. Maybe it's not worth it. Retention of those medivacs would have to be a priority, I was just wondering if you have tried it yet.

ShamTao Profile Joined September 2010 United States 417 Posts Last Edited: 2011-03-12 02:48:23 #19 On March 12 2011 11:38 Senorcuidado wrote:

Have you tried medivacs with the mass marines? They make marines even more effective in the small numbers, let you stim a little more freely, and most importantly guarantee that you can force multiple small battles at once with multi-pronged drops while attacking the front.



The downside of course is that they'll eat into your marine count and you wouldn't be able to skip all those refineries. Maybe it's not worth it. Retention of those medivacs would have to be a priority, I was just wondering if you have tried it yet.



I think part of the point is keeping armies as low cost as possible. The armies are kinda meant to die, so every attack would need medivacs, and then you'd be losing 1-2 every time. By constantly nailing the high tech units and keeping up nonstop aggression, a Protoss player can't rally, and the terran player replenishes supply incredibly fast, while keeping the gas cost low.



edit: Awesome guide! great contribution. I think part of the point is keeping armies as low cost as possible. The armies are kinda meant to die, so every attack would need medivacs, and then you'd be losing 1-2 every time. By constantly nailing the high tech units and keeping up nonstop aggression, a Protoss player can't rally, and the terran player replenishes supply incredibly fast, while keeping the gas cost low.edit: Awesome guide! great contribution. In the game of drones, you win or you die!

Carbonthief Profile Joined October 2010 United States 288 Posts #20 Someone suggested pushing early, forcefielding the terran ramp to keep marines trapped in the main while you camp the natural.

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