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NANCY GRACE

Prosecutors Zero in on Suspect in Murder of Teresa Halbach

Aired November 11, 2005 - 20:00:00 ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.



HARRIS FAULKNER, GUEST HOST: Tonight, breaking news in the disappearance of Teresa Halbach. Prosecutors are ready to charge a suspect, and yes, it`s Steve Avery, the man who called into this program to proclaim his innocence. But tonight, his blood found in her car, his DNA found on her car key, and her blood found in several places on his property. We`re also waiting for lab results to show if Teresa Halbach was murdered and burned at the Avery family salvage yard.

Good evening everyone. I`m Harris Faulkner, sitting in tonight for Nancy Grace.



Breaking news in Wisconsin, as prosecutors hone in on a single suspect in the disappearance of 25-year-old Teresa Halbach. The district attorney says he plans to charge Steven Avery with first-degree intentional homicide. And tonight, we`re also waiting for the DNA test results on burned human bones, teeth and blood found at a car salvage yard. We know they are the remains of a woman. Is she Teresa Halbach, the missing photographer who was last seen when she went on a photo assignment to that very same lot?



(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)



KEN KRATZ, CALUMET COUNTY DA: Prior to November 15 of 2005, I intend to file a criminal complaint in Manitowoc County charging Steven Avery with first-degree intentional homicide.



(END VIDEO CLIP)



FAULKNER: A very busy day in this case today. Let`s begin with an update on all the developments. Jim Moret, chief correspondent with "Inside Edition" now, Jim?



JIM MORET, "INSIDE EDITION": Well, it`s interesting because this man, Steven Avery, was wrongly convicted of rape and spent 18 years behind bars. It was ultimately DNA evidence which set him free. And ironically and sadly, it may be DNA evidence that leads to his -- leads to a possible conviction in this case.



As you indicated, on his property, there was a burning barrel, and in that barrel they found the remains of -- they found a charred digital camera, they found human bones, they found human teeth, which they believe to be a woman`s teeth. They found blood inside his house. They found what they say is his blood inside her SUV, which was located on his property, and found his DNA on her car keys, which were found in his bedroom.



Now, he`s being held right now on unrelated weapons charges. He`s going to face those charges on Monday. But as you just heard, the district attorney is planning on filing first-degree murder charges. And the DA said, quote, "It is no longer a question, at least in my mind, as special prosecutor, who is responsible in this case for the death of Teresa Halbach."



FAULKNER: Well, Jim, have they talked at all about what they`ve telling the family about the remains that were found there?



MORET: Only that they`re still waiting for DNA tests to be done. You know, just because you know that they are female remains, it does not necessarily indicate...



FAULKNER: Sure.



MORET: ... that they are Teresa Halbach`s. And they want to be very careful in this case, especially when you have a person who was wrongly convicted and then freed based on DNA evidence. Clearly, the prosecution and law enforcement want to be very careful before they file charges against the wrong person.



FAULKNER: Well, not to mention that this guy`s pretty litigious because he`s got a $36 million lawsuit against the county that prosecuted and convicted him on that first case.



MORET: Well, and specifically because of that, that his family members claim, of course he is the suspect, because they`re claiming he`s basically being set up...



FAULKNER: Sure.



MORET: ... because he`s filed this $36 million claim against the state.



FAULKNER: All right. Real quickly, Jim, I know that they also took some DNA samples and palm prints from other members of his family. Anybody else being looked at, at this point, that you know about in this case?



MORET: I think, at this point, what they`re trying to do is exclude other people. At this point, there`s no indication that other individuals are involved or suspected. I think that because this was a family property, they simply want to exclude other members of the family before proceeding.



MORET: All right. Jim, thank you.



Let`s go to Wendy Murphy, prosecutor. Wendy, what does all this evidence tell you, if you`re prosecuting this case?



WENDY MURPHY, PROSECUTOR: Well, at this point, even though we don`t know who exactly whose bones and teeth they`ve found, let`s not forget there was a camera there, too, and this was a woman who was a photographer at the scene, and she`s been missing. This doesn`t take rocket science.



The amount of blood in his car, the fact that his DNA is on her stuff, and her blood, I assume, is all over his car, it doesn`t get any closer to a slam dunk, even without knowing yet that it is, in fact, this woman.



I mean, I`ve got to tell you something, the sympathy for this guy, the idea that he`s filed this lawsuit, I just want to reach through this camera and grab the guy and shake him and bang his head on the wall because I`m not convinced at all that he was wrongly convicted! I will not deny for a minute that the DNA evidence that wasn`t available, technologically speaking, at the time of his trial kind of affected his ability to have a fair trial. But let`s not mistake the fact that he was granted a new trial or should have been allowed to use that evidence to show somebody else might have been at the crime scene with this other rape -- let`s not confuse this with innocence. I`m not persuaded at all that this guy was, in fact, innocent with regard to that earlier rape!



So let me say this to the people who helped him get out. Good job! You let the guy out by claiming he`s innocent. He probably wasn`t innocent of that other rape.



FAULKNER: So Wendy, you...



MURPHY: And now look what he did. He killed a woman! Thanks a lot!



FAULKNER: Well, Wendy -- Wendy, wait a minute, though. So you`re basing what you`re saying on past evidence, and we`re looking at today`s evidence.



I want to go quickly now to defense attorney Richard Herman and get his opinion on this. Richard?



RICHARD HERMAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, Harris, I have to pick myself off the floor here because Wendy just blew me away. I got to tell you something. There`s not going to be a new trial in the old case because he was completely vindicated. Vindicated! It was reversed. The conviction was reversed. He was wrongfully imprisoned for 18 years.



And while the evidence in this case doesn`t look like a plus for him, at this point, we have to understand that this $36 million lawsuit -- he has a history with the sheriff. The prosecutor in this case is a special prosecutor. It`s not the district attorney. It`s a special -- because he`s suing the district attorney and the former sheriff in this town, as well as the county, for wrongfully imprisoning him.



And you know, you want to look for a motive? Nobody has articulated any reason for this unfortunate action.



FAULKNER: Well, we want to make it very clear that this happened in an area of Wisconsin, Manitowoc, Wisconsin, and actually, they have brought in a district attorney and authorities from a neighboring county, Calumet County, because of the potential conflict of interest.



Let`s hear the DA now on this case.



(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)



KRATZ: Information was brought to my attention late last evening, and was confirmed today at the Wisconsin state crime laboratory, that significant DNA evidence, including blood of the suspect in this case, Steven Avery, was found in the interior portion of Ms. Halbach`s vehicle.



Because the DNA evidence is found on the key and Mr. Avery`s blood is found inside of Teresa Halbach`s vehicle, it is no longer a question, at least in my mind, as the special prosecutor in this case, who is responsible for, in this case, the death of Teresa Halbach.



(END VIDEO CLIP)



FAULKNER: And that district attorney is expected to file charges against Steven Avery for first-degree intentional murder, or homicide, rather, on Tuesday. We`ll let you know when that happens.



But in the meantime, forensic psychologist Michael Nuccitelli is here. And Michael, what do you make of all of the evidence in this? And the argument is that his past should tell us the present and his past should tell us the future. Is that true?



MICHAEL NUCCITELLI, FORENSIC PSYCHOLOGIST: Yes. The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. And you know, even though we had 18 years where he was apparently wrongly convicted, previous to that, we do have a criminal history, where this is, you know, a long-time pattern that`s been going on. If Mr., you know, Avery did commit this murder, you have to understand he would have to be a stone-cold sociopath. To put a dead body in a barrel, to light it on fire, the sights, the smells, the sounds, to watch it burn, that says that this is a man who has no care for human life.



FAULKNER: Forensic scientist Larry Kobilinsky -- Larry, you were with us last night and you`ve been following this case all along. Any signs that perhaps he had some help, if, in fact, Steven Avery did this?



LARRY KOBILINSKY, FORENSIC SCIENTIST: Well, you know, DNA will help us determine if, in fact, somebody else was involved, perhaps a friend, a family member, who knows. The elimination prints and fingerprints and palm prints will go a long way in determining if any family member had access or was in her vehicle. Right now, it appears that this is the work of a single individual.



FAULKNER: What makes you say that?



KOBILINSKY: Well, DNA can reveal if there are multiple individuals. You can examine a bloodstain, for example, and determine if it`s a mixture. And if, in fact, it`s a mixture of Mr. Avery and the victim and there are no other individuals, then one can conclude, based on that, that there are no others involved.



FAULKNER: Let`s talk about this. I know that we can show the list of things that were found at this property, but let`s talk about some of the evidence that the deputies have found -- adult human bones and teeth, the charred materials inside that burned barrel. And Dr. Kobilinsky, you were saying last night -- and I do want to make this clear again tonight -- that this would have been a good way to get rid of evidence, but they didn`t quite do that, did they.



KOBILINSKY: Well, they didn`t do it successfully. You know, incineration is a good way to destroy a body. After all, that`s what happens during cremation. But you know, even with accelerants, you have to reach enormous temperatures to really bring a body down to its mineral content. And so here we see a failure to totally destroy the body, and of course, that means that there will be DNA testing and we will be able to determine if, indeed, it is her, as it is likely, based upon what we`ve heard.



FAULKNER: And this evidence all found at a salvage lot owned by Steven Avery`s family. We do have some sound from him. In fact, he called into this program when we were covering the story with Nancy earlier this week. And let`s take a listen to what he had to say.



(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)



STEVEN AVERY, SUSPECTED IN MURDER OF WISCONSIN PHOTOGRAPHER: I worry about it every minute. I look out the window (INAUDIBLE) a squad car here. Are they going to pick me up? When are they going to pick me up? When I`m sleeping, are they going to come in? I always got that fear.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But you had nothing to do with this.



AVERY: No. No. I would never do nothing like that.



(END VIDEO CLIP)



(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)



AVERY: It seems like I`m the suspect. I think Manitowoc is trying to set me up real good because they`re taking everything. They don`t seem they like found anything by me because there ain`t nothing.



They`ve been watching us. They`ve been sitting up by the end of the driveway. But I`m done talking to them. I told everybody to not even say nothing no more. I talked to my lawyer, and he agrees with it.



(END VIDEO CLIP)



FAULKNER: Richard Herman, this is your client. What do you advise him to do, potentially?



HERMAN: Well, he`s not going to give any more interviews to the Nancy Grace show, I`ll tell you that. He`s going to keep quiet and he`s going to gear up because this case is going to go to trial. There`s not going to be a plea bargain in this case. They`re seeking first degree homicide. That`s going to be life in prison, there will be no plea. He`s going to have to put together a timeline. He`s going to have to account for where he was and has been. And he`s going to fight this to the finish. He`s going to make the state live up to their burden of proof in this one.



FAULKNER: Well, and he does have a criminal history. I mean, we`ve talked about the case that he was exonerated from using DNA evidence, but he does have other criminal elements in his history. For instance, hurting animals, burning cats, I mean, just some bizarre stuff there, too.



Michael Nuccitelli, forensic psychologist, what does that tell you about him?



NUCCITELLI: Well, one of the criteria you look at, not always, but to diagnose or to, you know, to define whether somebody`s a sociopath or psychopath, or there`s another disorder called antisocial personality disorder -- and not always, but one of the criteria is to look at animal abuse. And if we have early animal abuse by this gentleman, that is a strong predictor of potential for violent behavior.



FAULKNER: I didn`t mean to let this gloss by. We were talking about a different subject at the time. But if we could, let`s another look at the list of things that were found on the property. And specifically for you, we`re looking at leg irons, handcuffs, duct tape, pornographic material. What does that point to in the mindset of a potential killer?



NUCCITELLI: Once again, if this gentleman is the murderer, if he did do this, then stuff like that certainly says that he`s a sexual deviant, which is also part of being a sociopath, psychopath or somebody who just doesn`t fit in society.



FAULKNER: Wendy Murphy, prosecutor, how do you work with those materials? I mean, those are some odd things to find in that burned-out barrel, along with a cellular phone.



MURPHY: Yes. I mean, look, this guy is clearly an idiot because if he`s had practice burning animals didn`t understand that when you burn a body, the bones still stick behind, not to mention the metal camera and the handcuffs or the leg irons or whatever other deviant tools he was using, obviously, to be a -- a not just sexual predator type but some kind of, you know, sadistic type, too -- I mean, he`s leaving a lot of his own so-called fingerprints...



FAULKNER: Allegedly.



MURPHY: ... at the scene of the crime, not to mention his own blood in her car. I don`t care how many shows he goes on, and stupid as he was to go on this one -- and good get for Nancy, but stupid to go on television and claim not to be the type of guy that does this sort of thing -- well, how does he explain the bucket of blood from his body in her car? And how does he explain this woman`s DNA on all his stuff?



I mean, I don`t care if he has a past. I do care if he got away with raping that woman in the past and people are falsely claiming he`s innocent when he isn`t, but I`ll tell you, what I really care about is when a guy like this thinks that he can get away with saying he`s not the type, with all this evidence all over his own property, I don`t see how he`s going to walk at all in this case! And I don`t care how much of a burden of proof he puts the state to!



FAULKNER: Richard Herman, defense attorney?



HERMAN: Harris, yes. Isn`t it a little too neat? I mean, isn`t it just like -- her car is outside his door...



FAULKNER: Well, he says he was framed.



HERMAN: ... her keys are by his bed, the body is burned right on his house? Come on! It`s ridiculous! If he has a half a brain, he wouldn`t have done this. He wouldn`t have left everything all over the place. It`s outrageous! There`s more to it. It`s not as simple as this thing looks.



MURPHY: He`s an idiot! We agree. There you go. He`s an idiot!



FAULKNER: All right, you guys. We`re going to separate you out for just a moment.



To tonight`s "Case Alert." Zehra Attari, a 55-year-old doctor, has been missing from West Oakland, California, since Monday evening. Her Gray Honda accord with California tag number 4MUH810 also missing. There`s a $10,000 reward in this case. If you have any information on Zehra Attari, please call 408-277-4786.



(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)



ALI ABBAS, MISSING DOCTOR`S FRIEND: The worst thing that we`re not hoping for is that she`s probably dead, somebody killed her, and -- because we have a couple of -- couple of, you know, suspicions.



BLAIR ALEXANDER, OAKLAND POLICE DEPARTMENT: Suspicious because she has a supportive family, she`s a professional, and we don`t have any clues or any indications of where she might be. It`s very unusual that she would be gone for this period of time.



(END VIDEO CLIP)



(COMMERCIAL BREAK)



(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)



NANCY GRACE, HOST: Mr. Avery, do you feel like you`re being framed in any way?



AVERY: Yes.



GRACE: Why?



AVERY: Because every time I turn around, the county`s always doing something to me.



GRACE: In this case, do you think you`re being framed?



AVERY: Yes, I`m being set up because of my lawsuit and everything else.



GRACE: Because of your previous incarceration, you`re suing?



AVERY: Yes. They set me up then, and then...



GRACE: Well, do you think it has anything to do with her car being found at your auto shop?



AVERY: No. I think it`s because of my name and what I went through from them.



(END VIDEO CLIP)



FAULKNER: I`m Harris Faulkner. Welcome back. I`m sitting in tonight for Nancy Grace. Steven Avery expected to be charged in the case of Teresa Halbach. She`s been missing since Halloween. You know, one of the things that people have talked about is his past exoneration from another crime. We know of a reporter who was there who covered that, Tom Kurtscher. He`s a staff reporter with "The Milwaukee Journal Sentinel." He joins us now by telephone. Tom, are you there?



TOM KURTSCHER, STAFF REPORTER, "MILWAUKEE JOURNAL SENTINEL": I`m here.



FAULKNER: Good evening. And thanks for joining us tonight.



KURTSCHER: You`re welcome.



FAULKNER: You covered that first trial. What can you tell us about that?



KURTSCHER: What I covered was the exoneration. And what was unique, I guess, about it was that the judge who looked at the DNA evidence after Avery had been incarcerated...



FAULKNER: For 18 years.



KURTSCHER: ... not only determined that he was not guilty but actually declared him innocent, and really. in Wisconsin, put the idea of wrongful convictions on the map.



FAULKNER: So you were in the courtroom while that was going on.



KURTSCHER: No, that was some time later, when he was already exonerated and ordered to be released from prison. And subsequent to that, we did some investigative stories that looked at why he was made a suspect in that sexual assault and how the investigators, who he thinks are now framing him in this current case, ignored evidence that there was another suspect in the sexual assault.



FAULKNER: Was he right about that?



KURTSCHER: He was, at least according to the DNA tests that were done 18 years after he was put in prison. The suspect who was identified very early in the case of the sexual assault was, in fact, a man who matched the DNA evidence that was taken from the sexual assault victim.



FAULKNER: So from covering that and doing some investigative work post his exoneration, do you think that Steven Avery has a claim when he says he`s being framed in the disappearance of Teresa Halbach?



KURTSCHER: I think what`s understandable is that he would feel that way. I don`t know that there`s any evidence whatsoever of him being framed in this case. But I think in his view, that`s what happened to him the first time, and he spent 18 years in prison, and so he feels that the same thing is happening now, particularly because he has filed a lawsuit over his wrongful conviction, seeking $36 million.



FAULKNER: You interviewed any of those police officers or deputies that were involved in that previous case in your investigations?



KURTSCHER: I did.



FAULKNER: Are any of them also involved in this case?



KURTSCHER: I couldn`t say whether any of them are involved. The principals -- the sheriffs and the district attorney in that earlier case are no longer in office.



FAULKNER: OK.



KURTSCHER: And the current investigators have made a point of emphasis that in this current murder investigation, that the local authorities are providing only resources in terms of the investigation, and that people outside of the county...



FAULKNER: Sure.



KURTSCHER: ... are the ones doing the actual investigating.



FAULKNER: In nearby Calumet County. All right, Tom Kurtscher, thank you very much, with "The Milwaukee Journal Sentinel."



Tonight, a desperate search for a 4-year-old boy and his pregnant 19- year-old cousin who have been missing since Sunday. East St. Louis police used helicopters to search fields in the area where Anquianette Parker and Cermen Toney, Jr., were last seen. If you have information on this, Anquianette and Cermen, please call 618-482-6790.



(COMMERCIAL BREAK)



(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)



GRACE: Mr. Avery, did you see anyone else come in, anyone unusual that didn`t belong there?



AVERY: Well, Thursday night, me and my brother had to go and -- to Menard`s (ph) and pick up some wood with the flatbed. And I seen taillights pass by me, wasn`t supposed to be. So we turned around and we went back there. Truck (INAUDIBLE) parked on the side. And I took the flashlight out of the flatbed and I looked around by me and behind me, but I didn`t see nothing.



(END VIDEO CLIP)



FAULKNER: Hearing from the man accused in the disappearance of Teresa Halbach, set to be charged by prosecutors on Tuesday.



I`m Harris Faulkner. Welcome back. I`m sitting in tonight for Nancy Grace. We have a lot of resources on this tonight. We`re going to go now to our third reporter covering this, Patty Murray, who is with Wisconsin Public Radio. And Patty, I`m just curious. You know, at one point, they had divers searching ponds at the salvage yard that Avery`s family owns. Talk to me a little bit about what you`ve learned in terms of this evidence, if you would.



PATTY MURRAY, WPR REPORTER: Well, the evidence they were talking about today were things we`ve already mentioned on the program tonight. They were items found in a burn barrel on Steven Avery`s property, near a trailer that he lives in. And police believe those to be a cell phone and a camera. They believe those were the items that belonged to Teresa Halbach. They also released the information about Steven Avery`s DNA being on the ignition key that belonged to Teresa Halbach`s vehicle. The vehicle was found on Steven Avery`s property. It was partially obscured with branches. It was also obscured with hoods that belonged to other cars.



FAULKNER: You mean, like somebody maybe tried to hide it, conceal it?



MURRAY: Exactly. The prosecutors said that the hoods were put on top of the vehicle to obscure it from aerial searches. They were doing aerial searches of the property.



FAULKNER: All right. Patty, thank you. We`re coming right back.



(COMMERCIAL BREAK)



SOPHIA CHOI, CNN HEADLINE NEWS ANCHOR: Hello. I`m Sophia Choi. And here`s your "Headline Prime Newsbreak."



Well, these days it seems some people can`t do anything without their cell phones. Virginia authorities say, in recent weeks, a woman has robbed four banks while chatting on her cell phone. In the latest robbery last week, a woman held up the teller at gunpoint.



And an entire town of high school grads is being offered a free ride to college. An anonymous group of donors is giving scholarships to students in Kalamazoo, Michigan. The money is being offered for the next 13 years and can be used at any public college in Michigan.



And finally, the vice president paying tribute to U.S. servicemen and women on this Veterans Day. He laid a wreath at the Tomb of the Unknowns during a ceremony at Arlington National Cemetery. Cheney praised fallen troops, as well as those fighting the war on terrorism.



And that`s the news for now. I`m Sophia Choi. Now back to NANCY GRACE.



(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)



AVERY: I worry about every minute. I look out the window, there`s a squad car there. Are they going to pick me up? When are they going to pick me up? When I`m sleeping, are they going to come in? I`ve always got that fear.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But you had nothing to do with her disappearance?



AVERY: No, no. I would never do nothing like that.



(END VIDEO CLIP)



FAULKNER: That was Steven Avery on Tuesday before he was named a suspect in the murder and disappearance of Teresa Halbach. I`m Harris Faulkner in tonight for Nancy Grace.



On set with me tonight is Michael Nuccitelli, who`s a forensic psychologist. And you and I have been talking about a pattern here. And I`m just curious, you know, he called into the program, Steven Avery, to proclaim his innocence. What does that tell you about him?



NUCCITELLI: It says a lot about Mr. Avery. I mean, once again, whether he`s done this or not, obviously, from where I`m looking at it and where I stand, I tend to think he`s guilty. But it just speaks to the type of character that this individual is.



As when you were, you know, listening to him in the last clip, he said, "I have no fear." And that`s what happens when people are talking about, you know, antisocial personality disorder. They lack conscience. They lack fear. And that`s what leads an individual to go on national television and then talk about, you know, the crime.



FAULKNER: Well, and I know I`ve also heard you say it`s almost like he`s lacking care for himself in that regard.



NUCCITELLI: Right. Well, what they are is they`re so self-absorbed with themselves is that -- exactly. He could go on national television. And by going on national television, he also gets elements of stardom to where he feels importance.



But in reality what he`s doing is really shooting himself in the foot, because anybody would say to themselves, "Don`t go on national television and talk about what you`re being alleged to have done."



FAULKNER: Even if you`re innocent?



NUCCITELLI: Even if you`re innocent, I would think that you would think twice about maybe speaking to counsel before you go ahead and do that.



FAULKNER: Especially if you`ve been through a trial, a conviction, a court cast, everything before.



NUCCITELLI: And 18 years where you were, you know, supposedly convicted and then exonerated. So you would think he would have thought twice.



FAULKNER: Wendy Murphy, prosecutor, are you just chomping at the bit at all of this? Because there`s evidence in this case, and now you`ve got a guy -- when you just heard the forensic psychologist say that wasn`t a good idea to go on TV, even if you were innocent.



MURPHY: Yes. I mean, look, I think it`s a little bit ironic in the extreme that we know that DNA evidence is going to prove this guy`s guilt beyond any doubt, and he`ll complain about it and say, "Well, you know, DNA doesn`t tell the whole story."



Look, I`ve got to tell you something, Harris. You had that reporter on in a sense suggesting that there`s no disagreement about this guy`s, quote, unquote, "innocence," actual innocence from the case from 20 years ago.



That is not true. The victim does not agree that he is actually innocent. You know, the piece of DNA...



FAULKNER: But he was exonerated.



MURPHY: No, that doesn`t mean he`s innocent. I`m sick of these DNA lies. The Innocence Project and these people who falsely claim that 150 men have been exonerated and proved actually innocent with these new DNA tests on old cases is nonsense.



FAULKNER: But, Wendy, but, Wendy...



MURPHY: Nonsense.



FAULKNER: These men are going free, and it is DNA evidence.



MURPHY: A handful. A handful, Harris. A handful, at best.



FAULKNER: Let me bring in Larry Kobilinsky...



MURPHY: A handful, at best. It`s not true the guy is..



(CROSSTALK)



FAULKNER: ... the forensic scientist to talk about DNA right now. Hold on a second.



Dr. Kobilinsky, we`ve got a battle going on here with DNA.



KOBILINSKY: They do.



FAULKNER: He was exonerated with DNA evidence.



KOBILINSKY: Well, look...



FAULKNER: Are we saying that it was wrong?



KOBILINSKY: Well, let`s step back a minute there. As of today, there are about 163 people that have been exonerated with DNA. Sometimes it becomes a very simple matter.



If there`s a rape, for example, and the vaginal swab has semen, and the semen indicates another person and not the suspect, then that`s very important. But again, it`s not the only issue.



The entire case has to be thoroughly investigated. And it also depends on the testimony of the victim, so there can be instances where an individual is involved with the crime but his DNA is not found on the vaginal swab.



So to exonerate an individual through DNA, it`s got to have more than just DNA. There`s got to be other parts to this. And then, of course, you have to find out why he was convicted, if, in fact, he was truly innocent.



FAULKNER: You know, you`re helping Wendy make her point there.



KOBILINSKY: I realize that. And I am a DNA expert, and I believe in it. But what`s happening in this particular case is DNA is doing exactly what it should be doing, which is linking the victim to the suspect, the victim to the crime scene, and that will go a long way.



I always say keep an open mind. But as the evidence comes in, you`ve got to reconstruct the events. And it seems to be pointing in one direction at this moment.



FAULKNER: I also hear you saying, though, that that`s not the end all of the case, just the DNA. There have to be other elements.



Richard Herman, defense attorney, where do you go from here? If this guy were your client -- I know you said, "Gee, Steven Avery, don`t go back on television." But what else would you be telling him?



HERMAN: Well, at this point, we`d begin investigating the investigators. We would begin to look into all the people that investigated this case for the sheriff`s department, where they were, how they came up with this stuff.



I want to find out about this car, this vehicle. I mean, we`re going to have our own forensics. We`re going to do everything that the prosecution has done, for a defense perspective, so that we could present another position to the jury when this case goes to trial.



And by the way, Wendy, as a matter of law, as a matter of law, the judge acquitted him in that former case.



MURPHY: Nice try. That does not -- look it. The fact is the Innocence Project has claimed actual innocence in I don`t know how many cases, only to have that bad guy go out and kill or rape again.



HERMAN: As a matter of law...



MURPHY: You`ve got to stop lying to the public. I don`t care what a judge said. What did the victims say? Why don`t you care about that? We`re talking about a hair on the shirt...



HERMAN: You don`t care what the judge says? Well, this is the United States of America. We practice law here. And we abide by rules.



MURPHY: ... a hair on the outside of the victim`s shirt.



You think this guy gets a declaration of innocence from a hair from the outside...



FAULKNER: OK, you two, I`m going to stop you right there. I hope you got it out of your systems. We`re going to talk about the current case right now, and we`re going to hear from Steven Avery.



(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)



GRACE: And to Mr. Avery, is the pit back there where her car was found locked or fenced in? Can anybody just drive back there and leave their car?



AVERY: Well, most of the time, no.



GRACE: You mean, it`s normally not locked?



AVERY: No, you can just drive right in. And if you wanted to drop something off, you could.



(END VIDEO CLIP)



FAULKNER: I know our attorneys here have been battling it back and forth on that previous case, but they bring up an excellent point. And they each mentioned the victim in all of this.



I want to go back to reporter with Wisconsin Public Radio, Patty Murray, and talk a little bit about 25-year-old Teresa Halbach, a photographer who interestingly had been at that property before, Patty?



MURRAY: Yes. Steven Avery said that Teresa Halbach had been to his property on previous occasions for about the past year. She had been taking pictures. She`d be there whenever he had a car that needed to be sold, and she`d take a picture of it, and it would appear in one of those kind of classified ad-type of magazines.



And she was known for a portrait photographer, actually. She liked to take pictures of babies, wedding pictures she would take for her friends. Her brother said she really liked to travel.



And he described her as just a very fun-loving person. And the D.A. in the news conference today was saying -- trying to remind people that there was one victim in this case, and he said that is Teresa Halbach.



FAULKNER: Absolutely. What can you tell me about, maybe, her family? I know we had her brother on last night, Michael, her younger brother, 23- year-old Michael, who said some wonderful things about his sister. What kind of childhood did she have? What do you know about her?



MURRAY: I don`t know too much about what kind of childhood she had. She grew up in kind of a rural area in northeastern Wisconsin, to the south of the city of Green Bay.



The small community that she grew up in has been holding prayer services and they`ve been tying blue ribbons on trees, at first as a measure of hope that she would come home, but now just as kind of a remembrance. And the color was blue, because that was her favorite color.



FAULKNER: Let`s hear from her brother now, Michael.



(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)



MIKE HALBACH, TERESA`S BROTHER: It hurts to know that we won`t see Teresa on Earth, you know, as far as we know, but we`ll move on. It will take a while to move on, but we`ll see Teresa again.



(END VIDEO CLIP)



FAULKNER: I want to go now to chief correspondent with "Inside Edition," Jim Moret, very quickly. Jim, as wrap up this topic tonight, I just want to get some final thoughts on this case from you and where we go from here. He`s set to be charged on Tuesday. Run it down for us what will happen.



MORET: Well, basically, he`s going to be charged with first-degree homicide and also with the hiding and mutilating a human body. That`s what the charges are expected to be.



He`s also being held on weapons charges. And it`s interesting when you hear the defense standpoint. Of course he couldn`t do it, because who would be so stupid as to leave the car there?



It`s my understanding that her car was taken and then it was separately tested for DNA evidence inside. And that was in an effort to reduce the likelihood that any evidence would be tainted at the scene.



FAULKNER: All right. Jim, thank you.



We`ll be right back.



(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)



SHERIFF JERRY PAGEL, CALUMET COUNTY, WISCONSIN: A significant amount of blood was also discovered in Teresa Halbach`s vehicle. And the samples of blood were also found on the Avery property and in buildings on the Avery property. And, again, this evidence is being analyzed by the state crime lab.



(END VIDEO CLIP)



(COMMERCIAL BREAK)



(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)



DAVE HOLLOWAY, NATALEE HOLLOWAY`S FATHER: I met him the night I got here. He`s sickening to me. He`s a chicken. If he has nothing to hide, why is he running to his car? He makes my stomach turn.



BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY, MOTHER OF NATALEE HOLLOWAY: Paul Van Der Sloot has changed his story.



HOLLOWAY: I want him to dig into Paulus Van Der Sloot.



TWITTY: You just don`t do that. A grown man cannot keep changing the times if he has nothing to hide or no involvement.



HOLLOWAY: Paulus Van Der Sloot should have been a man. He should have stepped forward in the beginning. He should have talked to Joran that night. They should have admitted that something went wrong, and we could have gone on with our lives.



(END VIDEO CLIP)



FAULKNER: Paulus Van Der Sloot, the father of one of the suspects in the Natalee Holloway disappearance. Of course, we`ve been following that story.



I`m Harris Faulkner, sitting in for Nancy Grace.



Tonight, the family of Natalee Holloway holds out hope, of course, that the mysterious disappearance of the beautiful girl from Alabama will one day be solved. All of the suspects in this case have been freed from jail, including the father -- you saw him there -- of one of them, Aruban Judge Paulus Van Der Sloot.



Mr. Van Der Sloot is trying to clear his name, while Natalee`s family continues to search for answers.



Late development tonight. And let`s go straight to Jim Moret, chief correspondent with "Inside Edition." And it looks like Paulus Van Der Sloot`s going to get what he wants.



MORET: Indeed, Harris. A judge within the past hour-and-a-half officially declared that Paul Van Der Sloot is not a suspect in this case. That`s Joran Van Der Sloot`s father.



You remember that there were three boys who were arrested, taken into custody, as was Paul Van Der Sloot. Paul is now officially not a suspect. NANCY GRACE producer Erica Maripoti (ph) spoke with him within the past hour. He described this development as a relief. He said that not he`s able to go forward and file a damage claim.



In Aruba, if you`re arrested and then you`re declared not to be a suspect, unlike our system, you can actually file a claim for wrongful arrest against the authorities. That`s what he plans to do. Clearly, it is a blow to the Holloway and Twitty families.



FAULKNER: And you know, when I was on the island with Aruba, I actually talked with some people who file such claims. They win those cases. And sometimes it can be for a sizable amount of money.



I`m curious. You know, his contract as a judge in training there on the island runs out December 31st. He`s been off from his job, pending this whole thing, because he was trying to get his name cleared. First he was a suspect in the case, and then now we know that he`s not.



But he`s been still getting his paycheck. Is he going to work as a judge on the island?



MORET: It`s not clear. He says he`s going to stay in Aruba. It`s not clear whether he`s going to be a judge.



But you`re right. He has been receiving salary. And based on the fact that his name`s been cleared, apparently he`s been entitled to receive his salary. But it`s not clear whether he`s going to remain a judge there.



FAULKNER: All right. His son still a suspect. I talked exclusively tonight with the man who`s in charge of the investigation of finding Natalee Holloway on the island of Aruba, Deputy Police Chief Gerald Dompig, breaking his recent silence to me tonight on the phone.



(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)



FAULKNER: Where is your heart on this case, in terms of solving it?



GEROLD DOMPIG, DEPUTY POLICY CHIEF OF ARUBA: Well, of course, you can understand you do get sometimes mixed feelings about whether you are working on something that is worthwhile working on.



But I am still, as you remember I told you a couple of months ago, I still believe that this case is a case that we can solve.



I am convinced that these three boys know more. And I just want to mention -- without going into details -- that I have numerous -- I have seen numerous discrepancies. And that`s just not to use the word "lies," but numerous discrepancies in the statements of these boys.



(END VIDEO CLIP)



FAULKNER: The boys he`s talking about are teenager Joran Van Der Sloot, prime suspect in this case, Deepak and Satish Kalpoe, the two brothers also suspects in this case, the last three people to be seen with Natalee Holloway leaving the bar, Carlos and Charlie`s, on the island of Aruba, May 30th.



I want to go to Art Wood, a private investigator who was hired by the editor-in-chief by the local paper on the island, "Diario." Art, are you with us?



ARTHUR WOOD, FORMER SECRET SERVICE AGENT: Hello, can you hear me?



FAULKNER: Yes, Art, you`re joining us by phone tonight.



WOOD: Yes, I don`t have your volume at all, hardly.



FAULKNER: Well, can you hear me at all?



WOOD: Yes, now I can hear you a little better. If they could give me just a little bit of volume, that`d be great.



FAULKNER: OK, let`s work on that. Let me know when I`m coming clear to you.



WOOD: Now I can hear you.



FAULKNER: OK.



You wrote a letter recently on behalf of Natalee`s parents, specifically Beth and Jug Twitty, her mom and stepfather. And that letter was pretty scathing. And in it, you named Deputy Police Chief Gerald Dompig and several others to be pulled from this case.



We`ve heard from him tonight. He`s saying he still has the heart to see this case through. He thinks the suspects are all lying, but his goal is to get everybody, all of his ducks in a row, before they go back to court.



He told me tonight his greatest concern is that the case will get thrown out again, because it`s a tough one to win. Why write a letter like that?



WOOD: Well, first of all, Dave Holloway and his family and Beth Holloway Twitty and her family were at the end of their rope in this case. I mean, they have gotten very little response from the Aruban officials.



Gerald Dompig, the only reason he was even named in this letter, on that short list that we wanted replaced, is because of two weeks ago he attacked Beth Twitty in the newspaper down there, saying that she needed to be investigated for the Natalee Holloway Fund.



It indicated that she was receiving millions of dollars through the Natalee Holloway Fund, which is absolutely ridiculous. I have confidence in...



FAULKNER: And he told me tonight he was misunderstood and wanted to - - and even went so far as to say, no matter what the relationship is, his heart is still in solving this case. So I go back to it now. Since that`s the essence of this, do you think that letter accomplished anything?



WOOD: Well, I hope it did. I hope it was a wake-up Gerold Dompig and the rest of the officials. First of all, I think that this case can be solved, but they`re going to have to get rid of Dennis Jacobs, the lead investigator in this case, who keeps sabotaging the case, either through incompetence or for some other reason.



But there is a ton of evidence that indicates these three boys are involved in Natalee`s disappearance.



FAULKNER: And the deputy police chief agrees with you.



Stay right where you are, Art Wood. We`re going to come back on this.



Quickly, to tonight`s "All-Points Bulletin." Law enforcement in northern Virginia on the lookout for this woman. She has been holding up banks while talking on her cell phone.



At this point, no one is certain whether anyone is on the other end of the line. The woman is suspected of hitting four Wachovia banks in three counties. If you have any information, call the Loudon County, Virginia, sheriff`s office at 703-777-1021.



Local news is next for some of you. We`ll be right back. And remember, next week, live Florida courtroom coverage of the Carlie Brucia murder trial, 3:00 to 5:00 Eastern on Court TV.



Stay with us as we remember Lance Corporal Jeremy Tamburello, 19 years old, an American hero.



(COMMERCIAL BREAK)



FAULKNER: We at NANCY GRACE want very much to help in our own way solve unsolved homicides, find missing people.



Tonight, take a look at 14-year-old Samantha Cole. Samantha disappeared from Grants Pass, Oregon, October 17th, no sign of her since. If you have any information on Samantha Cole, please contact the Jackson County Sheriff`s Office at the number there on your screen, 541-774-6800, or you can go to Beyondmissing.com. Please help us.



And of course, we`re talking about the disappearance of Natalee Holloway. We have her father, Dave Holloway, by phone, I believe, tonight.



And good evening, Mr. Holloway.



DAVE HOLLOWAY, NATALEE HOLLOWAY`S FATHER: Good evening.



FAULKNER: You know, the letter that was written on your behalf calling for the resignations, basically, or at least the removal of some key people in this investigation, and then a boycott called for by the governor of Alabama of your home state, Bob Riley.



How do you think all of this is helping in finding your daughter?



HOLLOWAY: Well, I don`t know. You know, I`ve been very passive on the boycott issue. But, you know, this Paul Van Der Sloot issue, I just want to make one other comment.



About three weeks ago, I was called in by the investigators to supplement my original statement. And I felt like they were calling me in to help defend their case against Paul Van Der Sloot`s issue.



And I went through about an hour-and-a-half of interviews. And I talked about all of the hour-and-a-half I spoke with Paul and Anita. And when I got my statement back, it had one little line, that I had met him at the prison.



And it kind of struck me that that was the extent of the statement, when I gave them all of the details of what had happened that day.



FAULKNER: Do you think the boycott`s a good idea?



HOLLOWAY: You know, for the regular people of Aruba, I had a good contact with everyone there and developed some good, strong relationships with a lot of people. I think they need to lean on their officials, the prosecution`s office, the attorney general`s office, and the government to bring this case to a conclusion.



FAULKNER: All right. Dave Holloway, thank you so much for joining us.



I want to thank all of my guests tonight. You know, it`s truly been a pleasure sitting in for my friend, Nancy Grace. And I want to say a special thank you to Nancy.



Nancy, you left some big shoes to fill. And I kind of stuck my toe in, just to keep the seat warm for you.



She`ll be back on Monday, I know, with the latest in the case of missing Wisconsin woman Teresa Halbach.



Coming up, headlines from around the world and Larry King on CNN. I`m Harris Faulkner. Have a great weekend.



END

