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An instructor demonstrates proper firearms handling.

(Mike Lloyd)

Tuesday's report on the increasing number of Oregonians licensed to carry concealed weapons generated a wide-ranging online discussion about public safety. Several commenters pointed out that rates of crime have been falling in Oregon and across the country, but they disagreed on the causes.

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Here's a sampling of what commentors are saying:

Ed Numrich:

If we actually had a bunch of armed civilians defending themselves or stopping crimes from happening, we would know about it. we would be reading articles every day about this. Where are they?

DougEFresh:

I was involved in an altercation at the Lloyd Center a while back where weapons were drawn by concealed carry individuals to protect a woman that was being assaulted by thugs. LEOs responded and yet ...nothing ever hit the paper.

caveycave2:

it does happen all the time, just because you don't read about it doesn't mean it didn't happen

mike johnson:

go look at the stats of countries that have banned guns. There is more crime. Look what happened in Austrailia ...

Burdenedbylogic:

"statistics compiled in part by Philip Alpers, a public health professor at the University of Sydney. The number of gun homicides fell from 69 in 1996 (excluding the 35 victims of the mass shooting prompting the laws) to 30 in 2012. "

Another study:

"The researchers, Andrew Leigh of Australian National University and Christine Neill of Wilfrid Laurier University, found that in the decade after the gun laws, firearm homicides dropped 59 percent."



Mark:

Crime rates have been dropping everywhere for the past few decades. Everybody wants to take credit for it, but the main reason seems to be reduced lead in our environment. Lead poisoning is known to mess with the brains of small children, leaving permanent damage. At the edge, it can significantly increase the number of violent criminals. Statistics show a strong correlation of reduced lead in paint and gasoline with reduced crime 18 years later.

Lardman:

You could make a better case that Roe V Wade caused the decline because many unwanted children that would grow up to be problem adults were never born. Either way you'd just be hypothesizing.

Nobilloright:

Of course neither the lead or abortion hypothesis can explain the increase in crimes in the '60s.



Lardman

: I'm sure drug trafficking has something to do with it. But yes, it's a complex issue and no single element will explain it.

The Vice Principle:

Violent crime will never be non-existent, at least not until the extinction of the human race. Demanding that violent crime be non-existent, or the failure to deliver that condition proof that armed citizens, tough sentencing laws (or felon rehab programs) are worthless is absolutist ideological dogma, useless in dealing with a serious social issue. Since the passage of Measure 11 and the significant increase in the number of armed citizens, crime in Oregon has decreased greatly. Those who favor armed citizens and tough sentencing laws will be quick to ascribe this documented success to their ideological positions, while their ideological adversaries will ignore or denigrate the relationship.

The reality, as usual in hot ideological debates, lies somewhere between those polar positions. Undoubtedly some crime victims have been saved by arming themselves and using their weapons. Others have undoubtedly benefited by keeping violent felons quarantined in prison for longer periods of time. It would be insensitive even inhumane to ignore such beneficial results. It is equally unproductive to denigrate those cases where felon rehab programs have succeeded in reforming convicted felons.

The more tools society can employ to deter crime, capture and convict evildoers and reform those who are capable of change, the better for all.