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MemberActivity: 114Merit: 10 Proposal for Standardizing the Distribution Rate of Dev MSC via the MSC Protocol November 21, 2013, 08:39:36 PM #1



I propose we formalize the distribution of "Dev MSC", to mirror the amount of Dev MSC generated each month. Further more that these Dev MSC be distributed in proportion to the amount of BTC won by participants in Mastercoin bounties that month. With the intension being, that this distribution process will be fully controlled by the Mastercoin community via the existing Bounty system and up coming Proof of Stake voting.



It seems a simple and elegant distribution curve, and is awarded in proportion to the the BTC anyone earns or wins as part of working on the Mastercoin implementations, competitions and bounties. That way everyone can be confident in how this gets distributed and earning some of the Exodus funds comes with an automatic bonus of earning a proportional amount of Dev MSC.



Lets talk some simple math here.



Simple Dev MSC Distribution Equation: A / B = C * D = E

(A) Amount of awards an individual earns in BTC during a 30 day period, divided by,

(B) the total amount of BTC awarded during that 30 day period, equals

(C) his or her individual award percentage, times

(D) the total Dev MSC generated during that 30 day period, equals

(E) the amount of Dev MSC awarded to the individual in addition to his BTC awards during the 30 day period.



Example #1 (using round numbers):

A (100 BTC) / B (1,000 BTC) = C (10%) * D (1,000 MSC) = E (100 MSC)



There are 56,316 Dev MSC that will ever be generated.

28,158 Dev MSC will be generated this year or 2,346 MSC each month.

So if a developer won 10% of the bounties this month he or she would earn 234.6 Dev MSC (worth 35.19 BTC / $24,633 USD at current MSC / BTC / USD prices).



The benefits of using this method should be obvious.



1. Market Confidence: Having a standard and predictable amount of Dev MSC coming onto the market each month removes any need to "guess" about the current amount of Mastercoins in circulation and removes any worries about a large number of Dev MSC being released into the market at unexpected times (the Fed watching / Ripple problem).



2. Simplicity: This mechanism removes the need for devising a complex system for how much Dev MSC should be vested and to whom, and any potential conflicts of interest that would come with developing such a complex system. We already have a bounty system rewarding those contributing value, they should also be vesting Dev MSC in proportion to the value they are contributing to the community via the existing bounty system.



3. Community Driven: The Exodus address BTC funds will be controlled by the community Bounty system and the Proof of Stake voting, so it seems logical that the Dev MSC should also be controlled by the community Bounty system and Proof of Stake voting and be vested to those adding value in proportion to their contributions.



4. Developer Confidence: A number of developers are spending more and more time contributing to the Mastercoin implementations and with a standard for the amount of Dev MSC to be distributed, they can have a strong level of confidence that investing their time, talents, and energy in Mastercoin will provide a predictable income stream for their work. Additionally as the value of MSC increases over time, (in conjunction with the increased demand for /utility of Mastercoin) the Dev MSC monthly rewards will increase in BTC / USD terms and thus attract more and more developers each month to participate in bounties and competitions. Already that monthly 2,346 Dev MSC is worth almost $250,000 USD at current MSC / BTC / USD prices. That's $3,000,000 worth of Dev MSC to vest with Developers this year (at current prices).



I've discussed this proposal with the Mastercoin Foundation Board and I'm posting here to get feedback from the community on the best way to implement this as part of the Mastercoin Protocol Spec.



BACK GROUND FOR THOSE THAT HAVEN'T READ THE MASTERCOIN SPEC 1.2

There are two main types of Mastercoins. MSC and Dev MSC (there are also Test MSC, but I won't get into those here). All original Mastercoins (MSC) were generated between August 1st and August 31st by all those that sent funds to the "Exodus Address", these total 563,162. In addition the Mastercoin protocol generated 10% additional Dev MSC (originally termed Reward MSC) which total 56,316 Dev MSC. Combined you get all the Mastercoins that will ever exist 619,478.



Here is the reference from the Mastercoin Spec:

"For every 10 Mastercoins sold, an additional dev Mastercoin was also created,"



The generation of these Dev MSC is controlled by an algorithm described in the spec.

"Which are being awarded to the Exodus Address slowly over the years following the fundraiser. These delayed Mastercoins will ensure that we (the Mastercoin Foundation) have funding to complete the features desired by users. The reward is be structured so that we receive 50% of the reward by one year after the initial sale, 75% by a year later, 87.5% by a year later, and so on". Here is a Google Doc that has been public since the beginning of the project simply calculates how many Dev MSC are available for Distribution each year.



You can see the current total of the accumulating Dev MSC here:



8,080 MSC generated so far with 6,580 not yet Distributed via a bounty.



There isn't a description in the protocol on how the Dev MSC are to be distributed or at what rate.



I look forward to everyone's input.



David A. Johnston

Executive Director of BitAngels.co / Board Member of the Mastercoin Foundation

Proposal for Standardizing the Distribution Rate of Dev MSC via the MSC ProtocolI propose we formalize the distribution of "Dev MSC", to mirror the amount of Dev MSC generated each month. Further more that these Dev MSC be distributed in proportion to the amount of BTC won by participants in Mastercoin bounties that month. With the intension being, that this distribution process will be fully controlled by the Mastercoin community via the existing Bounty system and up coming Proof of Stake voting.It seems a simple and elegant distribution curve, and is awarded in proportion to the the BTC anyone earns or wins as part of working on the Mastercoin implementations, competitions and bounties. That way everyone can be confident in how this gets distributed and earning some of the Exodus funds comes with an automatic bonus of earning a proportional amount of Dev MSC.Lets talk some simple math here.Simple Dev MSC Distribution Equation: A / B = C * D = E(A) Amount of awards an individual earns in BTC during a 30 day period, divided by,(B) the total amount of BTC awarded during that 30 day period, equals(C) his or her individual award percentage, times(D) the total Dev MSC generated during that 30 day period, equals(E) the amount of Dev MSC awarded to the individual in addition to his BTC awards during the 30 day period.Example #1 (using round numbers):A (100 BTC) / B (1,000 BTC) = C (10%) * D (1,000 MSC) = E (100 MSC)There are 56,316 Dev MSC that will ever be generated.28,158 Dev MSC will be generated this year or 2,346 MSC each month.So if a developer won 10% of the bounties this month he or she would earn 234.6 Dev MSC (worth 35.19 BTC / $24,633 USD at current MSC / BTC / USD prices).The benefits of using this method should be obvious.1. Market Confidence: Having a standard and predictable amount of Dev MSC coming onto the market each month removes any need to "guess" about the current amount of Mastercoins in circulation and removes any worries about a large number of Dev MSC being released into the market at unexpected times (the Fed watching / Ripple problem).2. Simplicity: This mechanism removes the need for devising a complex system for how much Dev MSC should be vested and to whom, and any potential conflicts of interest that would come with developing such a complex system. We already have a bounty system rewarding those contributing value, they should also be vesting Dev MSC in proportion to the value they are contributing to the community via the existing bounty system.3. Community Driven: The Exodus address BTC funds will be controlled by the community Bounty system and the Proof of Stake voting, so it seems logical that the Dev MSC should also be controlled by the community Bounty system and Proof of Stake voting and be vested to those adding value in proportion to their contributions.4. Developer Confidence: A number of developers are spending more and more time contributing to the Mastercoin implementations and with a standard for the amount of Dev MSC to be distributed, they can have a strong level of confidence that investing their time, talents, and energy in Mastercoin will provide a predictable income stream for their work. Additionally as the value of MSC increases over time, (in conjunction with the increased demand for /utility of Mastercoin) the Dev MSC monthly rewards will increase in BTC / USD terms and thus attract more and more developers each month to participate in bounties and competitions. Already that monthly 2,346 Dev MSC is worth almost $250,000 USD at current MSC / BTC / USD prices. That's $3,000,000 worth of Dev MSC to vest with Developers this year (at current prices).I've discussed this proposal with the Mastercoin Foundation Board and I'm posting here to get feedback from the community on the best way to implement this as part of the Mastercoin Protocol Spec.BACK GROUND FOR THOSE THAT HAVEN'T READ THE MASTERCOIN SPEC 1.2There are two main types of Mastercoins. MSC and Dev MSC (there are also Test MSC, but I won't get into those here). All original Mastercoins (MSC) were generated between August 1st and August 31st by all those that sent funds to the "Exodus Address", these total 563,162. In addition the Mastercoin protocol generated 10% additional Dev MSC (originally termed Reward MSC) which total 56,316 Dev MSC. Combined you get all the Mastercoins that will ever exist 619,478.Here is the reference from the Mastercoin Spec: https://github.com/mastercoin-MSC/spec "For every 10 Mastercoins sold, an additional dev Mastercoin was also created,"The generation of these Dev MSC is controlled by an algorithm described in the spec."Which are being awarded to the Exodus Address slowly over the years following the fundraiser. These delayed Mastercoins will ensure that we (the Mastercoin Foundation) have funding to complete the features desired by users. The reward is be structured so that we receive 50% of the reward by one year after the initial sale, 75% by a year later, 87.5% by a year later, and so on". Here is a Google Doc that has been public since the beginning of the project simply calculates how many Dev MSC are available for Distribution each year. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AmR_eSvAkuXSdDI3Y1JnVjFvUDBXOWZiZl8zZ2Rkamc&usp=sharing You can see the current total of the accumulating Dev MSC here: https://docs.google.com/a/bitangels.co/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AtCyUJvk_IyNdGpVcnpBN2tOczFmbVRnck5TWjZuRFE#gid=1 8,080 MSC generated so far with 6,580 not yet Distributed via a bounty.There isn't a description in the protocol on how the Dev MSC are to be distributed or at what rate.I look forward to everyone's input.David A. JohnstonExecutive Director of BitAngels.co / Board Member of the Mastercoin Foundation The state is that great fiction by which everyone tries to live at the expense of everyone else. ― Frédéric Bastiat

djohnston



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MemberActivity: 114Merit: 10 Re: Proposal for Standardizing the Distribution Rate of Dev MSC via the MSC Protocol November 21, 2013, 09:17:23 PM #3



Thanks for the quick reply and your insights. To your questions.



You: "I'm not against formalizing the distribution of Dev Mastercoin, it makes a lot of sense"



Me: Great to hear.



You: "but was this the intended purpose?"



Me: The current spec says "These delayed Mastercoins (Dev MSC) will ensure that we (the Mastercoin Foundation) have funding to complete the features desired by users." So yes, I interpreted that to mean that the Foundation later the distributed bounty system via Proof of Stake would use the Dev MSC to reward those developing "the features desired by users". This makes sense to me, as we want those contributing to the development of the Mastercoin implementation to be vested in the long term outcome of MSC and not just collecting BTC from bounties.



You: "I was unaware that the dev coins would be attached to bounties."



Me: It was always discussed and intended this way, but the exact methods what never detailed, hence the back and forth when the handing out of the first 1,500 Dev MSC came about. We had to ask ourselves how they ought to be best distributed and to whom. A few of realizations came out of this. First if we set the distributions these are going to be REALLY big bonuses. Second, that was decided to be a very positive thing since it will attract more and more great developers to the cause of Mastercoin. Third, for me it indicated we needed a predictable and unbiassed way to distribute so much value.



You: One big difference with the current implementation however is that we attach the generation to block generation and not on a monthly basis. This makes more sense since this gives us an easy point to validate transactions that are spending these coins. Would that also work for you?



Me: The difference is I don't think we need to change anything about how you are currently "generating" the Dev MSC you can keep that block to block. I'm specifically talking about the "Distribution" of Dev MSC. So they are generated as tracked by J.R. here



We can translate a "Month" into a certain number of blocks if that would be helpful for the programming / implementation of this when the bounty system is finished. Though this may be difficult due to the variation in the time to complete blocks based on the difficulty.



I look forward to your additional thoughts on this.







Tachikoma,Thanks for the quick reply and your insights. To your questions.You: "I'm not against formalizing the distribution of Dev Mastercoin, it makes a lot of sense"Me: Great to hear.You: "but was this the intended purpose?"Me: The current spec says "These delayed Mastercoins (Dev MSC) will ensure that we (the Mastercoin Foundation) have funding to complete the features desired by users." So yes, I interpreted that to mean that the Foundation later the distributed bounty system via Proof of Stake would use the Dev MSC to reward those developing "the features desired by users". This makes sense to me, as we want those contributing to the development of the Mastercoin implementation to be vested in the long term outcome of MSC and not just collecting BTC from bounties.You: "I was unaware that the dev coins would be attached to bounties."Me: It was always discussed and intended this way, but the exact methods what never detailed, hence the back and forth when the handing out of the first 1,500 Dev MSC came about. We had to ask ourselves how they ought to be best distributed and to whom. A few of realizations came out of this. First if we set the distributions these are going to be REALLY big bonuses. Second, that was decided to be a very positive thing since it will attract more and more great developers to the cause of Mastercoin. Third, for me it indicated we needed a predictable and unbiassed way to distribute so much value.You: One big difference with the current implementation however is that we attach the generation to block generation and not on a monthly basis. This makes more sense since this gives us an easy point to validate transactions that are spending these coins. Would that also work for you?Me: The difference is I don't think we need to change anything about how you are currently "generating" the Dev MSC you can keep that block to block. I'm specifically talking about the "Distribution" of Dev MSC. So they are generated as tracked by J.R. here https://docs.google.com/a/bitangels.co/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AtCyUJvk_IyNdGpVcnpBN2tOczFmbVRnck5TWjZuRFE#gid=1 and than at whatever interval makes sense to the community, we can distribute those Dev MSC to the winners of the bounties that month, in proportion to the contribution they made. I'm open to increasing or decreasing the time period here, a month just seemed long enough to make meaningful contributions and that many bounties would be completed within a one month period. I know it has been discussed to hold more and shorter bounties in the future.We can translate a "Month" into a certain number of blocks if that would be helpful for the programming / implementation of this when the bounty system is finished. Though this may be difficult due to the variation in the time to complete blocks based on the difficulty.I look forward to your additional thoughts on this. The state is that great fiction by which everyone tries to live at the expense of everyone else. ― Frédéric Bastiat

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MemberActivity: 114Merit: 10 Re: Proposal for Standardizing the Distribution Rate of Dev MSC via the MSC Protocol November 22, 2013, 02:24:08 AM #5 J.R.,



Thanks for the notes on the subject.



Yes, the Mastercoin Foundation Board isn't in complete agreement on the specifics of the mechanism. Though there seems to be consensus that there ought to be such a mechanism. And also given its such an important decision we want to get as broad a set of input from the community as possible and to hash out the specifics in a very public way.



I'm glad to hear you like the proposal in general. To your specific variation I believe it would be helpful to run through some scenarios here.



So in your variation of the proposal instead of distributing 2,346 Dev MSC each month (worth 351.8 BTC / $246,320 at current MSC / BTC / USD prices) there would be a distribution of 1,173 Dev MSC (worth 175.9 BTC / $123,160 at current MSC / BTC / USD prices).



I certainly understand your reasoning wanting to have a rainy day fund for as you put it "unexpected expenses". Though I would make the point that the Mastercoin community has 4,500 BTC or so sitting in the Exodus Address, which at current BTC prices is more than $3,000,000 USD. I'm trying to think of a scenario where an "unexpected expense" would arise that would exceed our ability to offer a large bounty of BTC to address it and I can't think of one that big.



Lets say for example $1,500,000 USD in bounties are offered in BTC during the first year (next ten months) competitions and bounties. If we were to distribute 50% of the generated Dev MSC (during the same 10 months), which are worth at current prices a total of $1,231,600 USD. In this scenario we are offering a greater amount of vesting in BTC than we are in MSC. And thus it seems to be logical that we will be attracting as a result bounty participants more interested in BTC than MSC. And also less bounty participants during the most critical 10 month period of Mastercoin's development.



So I'm thinking that if the function of this Dev MSC is to attract the best possible developers and contributors to the MSC community than we ought to seek to vest them more heavily in the future of Mastercoin than in Bitcoin. If we do the 100% distribution of generated Dev MSC, than that will be $2,462,200 USD worth of MSC (over the same 10 month period). And thus twice as much vesting in MSC and nearly twice the BTC incentive heavily favoring those that value MSC.



I completely agree with your concept of handing what ever remains in the Dev MSC account (already 6,000 + waiting for use) over to a distributed bounty system which will run on the MSC protocol using proof of stake voting.



As for the timing, I'm open to playing with this variable maybe it should be two months / maybe two weeks. What I know is having the regular interval (shorter the better) goes back again to removing all doubt about when and how much Dev MSC will be distributed into the market. The more complex the formula becomes, the more guessing the market has to do about, "when" the distribution will be and "how large" it will be. By fixing the time frame we answer both questions as the Dev MSC generation is already tied to the block calculation.



I think the better solution in future is to do bounties that break up major milestones and are much less than 30 days in length especially as we have more and more developers collaborating together on the bounties.



I also agree with your statement on the goal being to "get a couple devs to quit their day-jobs by overwhelming them with money". This would also indicate to me a 30 day or shorter time period is best for the Dev MSC, because anyone working on this full time is used to getting paid every two weeks or every four weeks. The pool of people willing to wait 60 or 90 days between paychecks (even big paychecks) is much smaller.



I'd propose we use the already 6,000 + Dev MSC sitting in the Exodus Address as the rainy day fund you want for the unexpected expenses. Also that we do the distributions every 30 days, at the 100% level of distribution (based on what is generated during that 30 days), and that we make the plan to divide major milestones into clearly sub 30 day blocks.



I look forward to your thoughts and everyone else's.



The state is that great fiction by which everyone tries to live at the expense of everyone else. ― Frédéric Bastiat

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LegendaryActivity: 1260Merit: 1024Rational Exuberance Re: Proposal for Standardizing the Distribution Rate of Dev MSC via the MSC Protocol November 22, 2013, 06:00:50 PM #8



Here's my crazy proposal:



1) Keep only the 1000 BTC we've already moved into offline wallets

2) Use the remainder of our BTC to purchase MSC over the next few months on the distributed exchange

3) Pay all future bounties exclusively in MSC

4) Keep half of our MSC money for a rainy day and/or future distributed bounty system

5) If our rainy day fund becomes excessive, we can always vote to lower the ratio later



I realize that this would potentially make all of our existing investors absurdly wealthy, but, well, the stated purpose of the Mastercoin Foundation is to serve the holders of Mastercoins, and I'm having a hard time seeing this course of action as anything but a huge positive for them, as long as we do it transparently and over a long enough period of time that nobody who wants to sell to us is left out.



Also, MSC prices would probably go up to the point where I'd sell 1% and quit my job to work on MSC, which I hope would also be in the best interests of our investors.



I think perhaps it is time to convert more of our BTC to MSC. I'd rather have MSC in a rainy day fund than BTC anyway. As you say, giving away BTC attacts people more interested in BTC, and I'd rather the foundation hold MSC than BTC.Here's my crazy proposal:1) Keep only the 1000 BTC we've already moved into offline wallets2) Use the remainder of our BTC to purchase MSC over the next few months on the distributed exchange3) Pay all future bounties exclusively in MSC4) Keep half of our MSC money for a rainy day and/or future distributed bounty system5) If our rainy day fund becomes excessive, we can always vote to lower the ratio laterI realize that this would potentially make all of our existing investors absurdly wealthy, but, well, the stated purpose of the Mastercoin Foundation is to serve the holders of Mastercoins, and I'm having a hard time seeing this course of action as anything but a huge positive for them, as long as we do it transparently and over a long enough period of time that nobody who wants to sell to us is left out.Also, MSC prices would probably go up to the point where I'd sell 1% and quit my job to work on MSC, which I hope would also be in the best interests of our investors.

Check out my attempt at

I have seen I wrote The Second Bitcoin Whitepaper Check out my attempt at using memes to explain bitcoin I have seen bitcoin's dystopian future

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Sr. MemberActivity: 285Merit: 250 Re: Proposal for Standardizing the Distribution Rate of Dev MSC via the MSC Protocol November 22, 2013, 07:59:19 PM #9 Quote from: dacoinminster on November 22, 2013, 06:00:50 PM



Here's my crazy proposal:



1) Keep only the 1000 BTC we've already moved into offline wallets

2) Use the remainder of our BTC to purchase MSC over the next few months on the distributed exchange

3) Pay all future bounties exclusively in MSC

4) Keep half of our MSC money for a rainy day and/or future distributed bounty system

5) If our rainy day fund becomes excessive, we can always vote to lower the ratio later



I realize that this would potentially make all of our existing investors absurdly wealthy, but, well, the stated purpose of the Mastercoin Foundation is to serve the holders of Mastercoins, and I'm having a hard time seeing this course of action as anything but a huge positive for them, as long as we do it transparently and over a long enough period of time that nobody who wants to sell to us is left out.



Also, MSC prices would probably go up to the point where I'd sell 1% and quit my job to work on MSC, which I hope would also be in the best interests of our investors.





I think perhaps it is time to convert more of our BTC to MSC. I'd rather have MSC in a rainy day fund than BTC anyway. As you say, giving away BTC attacts people more interested in BTC, and I'd rather the foundation hold MSC than BTC.Here's my crazy proposal:1) Keep only the 1000 BTC we've already moved into offline wallets2) Use the remainder of our BTC to purchase MSC over the next few months on the distributed exchange3) Pay all future bounties exclusively in MSC4) Keep half of our MSC money for a rainy day and/or future distributed bounty system5) If our rainy day fund becomes excessive, we can always vote to lower the ratio laterI realize that this would potentially make all of our existing investors absurdly wealthy, but, well, the stated purpose of the Mastercoin Foundation is to serve the holders of Mastercoins, and I'm having a hard time seeing this course of action as anything but a huge positive for them, as long as we do it transparently and over a long enough period of time that nobody who wants to sell to us is left out.Also, MSC prices would probably go up to the point where I'd sell 1% and quit my job to work on MSC, which I hope would also be in the best interests of our investors. +1000

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LegendaryActivity: 1498Merit: 1000 Re: Proposal for Standardizing the Distribution Rate of Dev MSC via the MSC Protocol November 22, 2013, 08:00:50 PM #10 Quote from: littleblue on November 22, 2013, 07:59:19 PM Quote from: dacoinminster on November 22, 2013, 06:00:50 PM



Here's my crazy proposal:



1) Keep only the 1000 BTC we've already moved into offline wallets

2) Use the remainder of our BTC to purchase MSC over the next few months on the distributed exchange

3) Pay all future bounties exclusively in MSC

4) Keep half of our MSC money for a rainy day and/or future distributed bounty system

5) If our rainy day fund becomes excessive, we can always vote to lower the ratio later



I realize that this would potentially make all of our existing investors absurdly wealthy, but, well, the stated purpose of the Mastercoin Foundation is to serve the holders of Mastercoins, and I'm having a hard time seeing this course of action as anything but a huge positive for them, as long as we do it transparently and over a long enough period of time that nobody who wants to sell to us is left out.



Also, MSC prices would probably go up to the point where I'd sell 1% and quit my job to work on MSC, which I hope would also be in the best interests of our investors.





I think perhaps it is time to convert more of our BTC to MSC. I'd rather have MSC in a rainy day fund than BTC anyway. As you say, giving away BTC attacts people more interested in BTC, and I'd rather the foundation hold MSC than BTC.Here's my crazy proposal:1) Keep only the 1000 BTC we've already moved into offline wallets2) Use the remainder of our BTC to purchase MSC over the next few months on the distributed exchange3) Pay all future bounties exclusively in MSC4) Keep half of our MSC money for a rainy day and/or future distributed bounty system5) If our rainy day fund becomes excessive, we can always vote to lower the ratio laterI realize that this would potentially make all of our existing investors absurdly wealthy, but, well, the stated purpose of the Mastercoin Foundation is to serve the holders of Mastercoins, and I'm having a hard time seeing this course of action as anything but a huge positive for them, as long as we do it transparently and over a long enough period of time that nobody who wants to sell to us is left out.Also, MSC prices would probably go up to the point where I'd sell 1% and quit my job to work on MSC, which I hope would also be in the best interests of our investors.

+1000 1001

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LegendaryActivity: 1120Merit: 1000 Re: Proposal for Standardizing the Distribution Rate of Dev MSC via the MSC Protocol November 22, 2013, 08:20:29 PM #13 Quote from: dacoinminster on November 22, 2013, 06:00:50 PM



Here's my crazy proposal:



1) Keep only the 1000 BTC we've already moved into offline wallets

2) Use the remainder of our BTC to purchase MSC over the next few months on the distributed exchange

3) Pay all future bounties exclusively in MSC

4) Keep half of our MSC money for a rainy day and/or future distributed bounty system

5) If our rainy day fund becomes excessive, we can always vote to lower the ratio later



I realize that this would potentially make all of our existing investors absurdly wealthy, but, well, the stated purpose of the Mastercoin Foundation is to serve the holders of Mastercoins, and I'm having a hard time seeing this course of action as anything but a huge positive for them, as long as we do it transparently and over a long enough period of time that nobody who wants to sell to us is left out.



Also, MSC prices would probably go up to the point where I'd sell 1% and quit my job to work on MSC, which I hope would also be in the best interests of our investors.





I think perhaps it is time to convert more of our BTC to MSC. I'd rather have MSC in a rainy day fund than BTC anyway. As you say, giving away BTC attacts people more interested in BTC, and I'd rather the foundation hold MSC than BTC.Here's my crazy proposal:1) Keep only the 1000 BTC we've already moved into offline wallets2) Use the remainder of our BTC to purchase MSC over the next few months on the distributed exchange3) Pay all future bounties exclusively in MSC4) Keep half of our MSC money for a rainy day and/or future distributed bounty system5) If our rainy day fund becomes excessive, we can always vote to lower the ratio laterI realize that this would potentially make all of our existing investors absurdly wealthy, but, well, the stated purpose of the Mastercoin Foundation is to serve the holders of Mastercoins, and I'm having a hard time seeing this course of action as anything but a huge positive for them, as long as we do it transparently and over a long enough period of time that nobody who wants to sell to us is left out.Also, MSC prices would probably go up to the point where I'd sell 1% and quit my job to work on MSC, which I hope would also be in the best interests of our investors.

I'm totally for this if it makes dacoinmaster and the other devs to be 100% devoted to MSC (quitting their day job, etc.) I'm totally for this if it makes dacoinmaster and the other devs to be 100% devoted to MSC (quitting their day job, etc.) PGP KEY

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LegendaryActivity: 1078Merit: 1001Bitcoin is new, makes sense to hodl. Re: Proposal for Standardizing the Distribution Rate of Dev MSC via the MSC Protocol November 22, 2013, 08:26:39 PM #14 Quote from: Rampion on November 22, 2013, 08:20:29 PM Quote from: dacoinminster on November 22, 2013, 06:00:50 PM



Here's my crazy proposal:



1) Keep only the 1000 BTC we've already moved into offline wallets

2) Use the remainder of our BTC to purchase MSC over the next few months on the distributed exchange

3) Pay all future bounties exclusively in MSC

4) Keep half of our MSC money for a rainy day and/or future distributed bounty system

5) If our rainy day fund becomes excessive, we can always vote to lower the ratio later



I realize that this would potentially make all of our existing investors absurdly wealthy, but, well, the stated purpose of the Mastercoin Foundation is to serve the holders of Mastercoins, and I'm having a hard time seeing this course of action as anything but a huge positive for them, as long as we do it transparently and over a long enough period of time that nobody who wants to sell to us is left out.



Also, MSC prices would probably go up to the point where I'd sell 1% and quit my job to work on MSC, which I hope would also be in the best interests of our investors.





I think perhaps it is time to convert more of our BTC to MSC. I'd rather have MSC in a rainy day fund than BTC anyway. As you say, giving away BTC attacts people more interested in BTC, and I'd rather the foundation hold MSC than BTC.Here's my crazy proposal:1) Keep only the 1000 BTC we've already moved into offline wallets2) Use the remainder of our BTC to purchase MSC over the next few months on the distributed exchange3) Pay all future bounties exclusively in MSC4) Keep half of our MSC money for a rainy day and/or future distributed bounty system5) If our rainy day fund becomes excessive, we can always vote to lower the ratio laterI realize that this would potentially make all of our existing investors absurdly wealthy, but, well, the stated purpose of the Mastercoin Foundation is to serve the holders of Mastercoins, and I'm having a hard time seeing this course of action as anything but a huge positive for them, as long as we do it transparently and over a long enough period of time that nobody who wants to sell to us is left out.Also, MSC prices would probably go up to the point where I'd sell 1% and quit my job to work on MSC, which I hope would also be in the best interests of our investors.

I'm totally for this if it makes dacoinmaster and the other devs to be 100% devoted to MSC (quitting their day job, etc.)

I'm totally for this if it makes dacoinmaster and the other devs to be 100% devoted to MSC (quitting their day job, etc.)

I approved I approved

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Sr. MemberActivity: 266Merit: 250 Re: Proposal for Standardizing the Distribution Rate of Dev MSC via the MSC Protocol November 22, 2013, 09:39:01 PM #17 Quote from: dacoinminster on November 22, 2013, 06:00:50 PM



Here's my crazy proposal:



1) Keep only the 1000 BTC we've already moved into offline wallets

2) Use the remainder of our BTC to purchase MSC over the next few months on the distributed exchange

3) Pay all future bounties exclusively in MSC

4) Keep half of our MSC money for a rainy day and/or future distributed bounty system

5) If our rainy day fund becomes excessive, we can always vote to lower the ratio later



I realize that this would potentially make all of our existing investors absurdly wealthy, but, well, the stated purpose of the Mastercoin Foundation is to serve the holders of Mastercoins, and I'm having a hard time seeing this course of action as anything but a huge positive for them, as long as we do it transparently and over a long enough period of time that nobody who wants to sell to us is left out.



Also, MSC prices would probably go up to the point where I'd sell 1% and quit my job to work on MSC, which I hope would also be in the best interests of our investors.





I think perhaps it is time to convert more of our BTC to MSC. I'd rather have MSC in a rainy day fund than BTC anyway. As you say, giving away BTC attacts people more interested in BTC, and I'd rather the foundation hold MSC than BTC.Here's my crazy proposal:1) Keep only the 1000 BTC we've already moved into offline wallets2) Use the remainder of our BTC to purchase MSC over the next few months on the distributed exchange3) Pay all future bounties exclusively in MSC4) Keep half of our MSC money for a rainy day and/or future distributed bounty system5) If our rainy day fund becomes excessive, we can always vote to lower the ratio laterI realize that this would potentially make all of our existing investors absurdly wealthy, but, well, the stated purpose of the Mastercoin Foundation is to serve the holders of Mastercoins, and I'm having a hard time seeing this course of action as anything but a huge positive for them, as long as we do it transparently and over a long enough period of time that nobody who wants to sell to us is left out.Also, MSC prices would probably go up to the point where I'd sell 1% and quit my job to work on MSC, which I hope would also be in the best interests of our investors.

Brutal honesty: As an Exodus investor I love the idea, BUT.. it really gives me a weird feeling. Could this not be easily misrepresented as a huge pump and dump by outsiders and contrarian? Brutal honesty: As an Exodus investor I love the idea, BUT.. it really gives me a weird feeling. Could this not be easily misrepresented as a huge pump and dump by outsiders and contrarian?

djohnston



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MemberActivity: 114Merit: 10 Re: Proposal for Standardizing the Distribution Rate of Dev MSC via the MSC Protocol November 22, 2013, 10:15:09 PM #19 J.R.



Thanks for the modified proposal.



I'm open to the idea of converting a portion of the Bitcoins held by the Exodus Address to MSC in order to increase the MSC vesting / bounties primarily denominated in MSC.



Let me suggest that if we do take such an approach that we put in place a predictable, quantifiable, stable plan for such MSC purchases (both pricing mechanism and timing) in order to give the market confidence that there won't be any unpredictable purchases of MSC for BTC by the Exodus Address.



So let me respond to your proposal line by line.



1) Keep only the 1000 BTC we've already moved into offline wallets.



I think this is a reasonable about of BTC to keep for unexpected events. Agreed.



2) Use the remainder of our BTC to purchase MSC over the next few months on the distributed exchange.



I'd propose spreading out these purchases over the next 10 month period (year 1 of Dev MSC generation). Purchases once each month on the last day of the month. Buy orders set and then filled over time at the market price.



3) Pay all future bounties exclusively in MSC



Agreed. This will attract the most developers interested in MSC, if they sell the MSC it still ends up in the hands of the person that values it the most highly.



4) Keep half of our MSC money for a rainy day and/or future distributed bounty system.



Again, over the next 10 months, if we do mirror the Dev MSC generation rate, for our Dev MSC Distribution rate than only 50% of the MSC will be vested the first year. Thus we achieve your goal of having "half of our MSC" in reserve for use by the future distributed bounty system by the start of the second year (September 1st 2014). If we finish development of the bounty system before then even more MSC can be transferred to that system.



5) If our rainy day fund becomes excessive, we can always vote to lower the ratio later



Again I think it wisest if we set the numbers in stone in the protocol and have to agree a protocol change via consensus to alter the plan or rate of distribution. This can all be part of the future Distributed Bounty system and Proof of Stake system discussion.



Let me know what you think of these suggestions.







The state is that great fiction by which everyone tries to live at the expense of everyone else. ― Frédéric Bastiat