Re: [gothic-l] Re: háils-2

Why would not the names of the week be similar to those of the other Germanic names Mondag, Tiwesdag, Wodnesdag, Thunorsdag, Frigedag, Saturnesdag, and Sunndag. The names of the month if I can recall were Weodmona?, Wulfsmona?, ?riemilcmona?, Geol, After Geol, Blo?mona?. THese are from the Anglo-Saxon Calander, so I am sure the Goths, had something similar. There was also a Hra?mona?. There are five more months, but I cannot recall them. Le ----- Original Message ----- From: "Manie Lombard" <manielombard at chello.at> To: <gothic-l at yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2004 3:13 PM Subject: Re: [gothic-l] Re: háils-2 Háils again, dear Llama Nom (Dirk?) http://ahnensitte.net/zeit4.htm "horn" im Sinne von "Winkel", hier: der im Winkel statt im Ehebett Gezeugte, der Bastard, was darauf verweist, daß der Hornung als kürzester Monat "aus der Reihe tanzt". Nach anderer Deutung verweist Horn auf das Gehörn bzw. Geweih der Rehe und Hirsche, das diese im Frühjahr abwerfen. According to this otherwise quite dubious site the above explanation is from the Kluge dictionary. Please inform me, if you want to have the above sentences translated (although my english is not very good :))) ) regards Manie ----- Original Message ----- From: "llama_nom" <penterakt at fsmail.net> To: <gothic-l at yahoogroups.com> Sent: Tuesday, July 20, 2004 4:37 PM Subject: [gothic-l] Re: háils Hails Manie, For the sake of completeness, as a Gothic name for Monday I've toyed with the variants: *Daiwtairadags, *Diutadags (after Greek, the second more assimilated to Gothic sounds), or *Meninsdags (after other Germanic languages), or some innocent calque like: Anthardags. No evidence for any of them, I'm afraid, as far as I know. And I'm not familiar with the history of the Greek names, so I don't know whether hee deutéra, the modern name, was in use at this time. And for Wednesday, maybe: Midjawiko. In support of this is the German substitution of Mittwoch for Wotanstag, and the Slavonic use of words meaning "centre" for this middle day. But this is just a guess. Now the months: Here goes... If you look towards the end of this message, you'll find I've made up some Gothic month names based on the Old English ones. But bear in mind these are rather arbitrary! Looking at the various Germanic calendars here, there's obviously quite a bit of variety, from the lunar/solar English system, to the solar Julian-style Norse and German (& Gothic) calendars, each with their own sets of names. Even where they do have names in common, these often apply to different months, as is the case with Gothic Fruma Jiuleis (November) : OE Ærra = Geola (December) - or English Hrethmonath, which is approximately March, but the German Redimonet, quoted by Grimm, was applied variously to March or February. That said, some names are quite widespread. On the basis of Old English and Old High German cognates, I think it's not so far fetched to imagine there could once have been a Gothic *Austramenoths (although against this is the fact that no trace of the goddess Eastre/Ôstara, or her feast, survive in North Germanic; cf. ON páskir "easter", though there is in Norse mythology a male Austri; and a related goddess name elsewhere in Indo-European: Skr. Ushas, Lat. Aurora, Lith. Auszrinne). It is also quite possible, if unprovable, that there was a Gothic *Hailagamenoths, as well as Fruma Jiuleis and * Anthar/Aftuma Jiuleis. The individual elements of OE Winterfylleth appear in Gothic separately as wintrus & fullithe (gen.pl.), so perhaps there was a month *Wintrufulliths. The elements of OHG Aranmanoth, Hewinmanoth, Windumanoth & Winnemanoth all have attested Gothic equivalents, so we could reconstruct: *Asanamenoth, *Haujamenoths, *Windamenoths & *Winjamenoths. OHG Witumanoth might have had a Gothic equivalent *Widumenoths (cf. *widus in Koebler, recorded in personal names). It's hard to say which exact month these would have corresponded to, though the rough time of year is implied by the meanings. As for choosing between alternative possibilities, Bede's Anglo-Saxon names have the advantage of being older, albeit slightly more remote in space than the German ones, although they differ from the Gothic calendar in being variable and lunar rather than fixed according to the Julian calander. Finally, I've also compiled an arbitrary list of "guesses" at the Gothic months, mixing and matching the different traditions. 1. LATIN MONTHS 2. THE ANGLO-SAXON CALENDER 3. THE OLD NORSE CALENDAR 4. DUTCH TRADITIONAL MONTH NAMES 5. GERMAN TRADITIONAL MONTH NAMES 6. RECONSTRUCTING THE GOTHIC CALENDER RE the Latin names: I think the second "o" of October is long in Latin, in which case it might have been transcribed into Gothic as Auktobair. As a suffix in personal names, and a productive suffix that could be attached to native Gothic words, the Latin -arius > areis in Gothic. Whether this would apply to the month names I don't know: it would probably depend on when they where adopted by the Goths. The Latin combination -tio- appears affricated in the Gothic borrowing kawtsjo (6th century deed), reflecting innovations in Latin pronunciation, but if Martius had been borrowed earlier it would have escaped this change. In favour of a non-affricated form in Gothic might be the German dialect variants Marte, etc. - see below. 1. THE ANGLO-SAXON CALENDER Here is the Old English calendar (I've given it in West Saxon spelling, although you might find some books & sites which quote earlier Northumbrian forms used by the Venerable Bede, or some confusing mixture of West Saxon & Northumbrian...) with approximate modern equivalents: Ærra Geola (later Geolmonath) - December Æfterra Geola - January Solmonath - February Hrethmonath - March Eastremonath - April Thrimilce, Thrimilcemonath - May Ærra Litha - June Æfterra Litha - July Weodmonath - August Haligmonath (later: Hærfestmonath) - September Winterfylleth - October Blotmonath - November NOTES ON ANGLO-SAXON CALENDAR Two seasons or "missere", neuter, (ON misseri): winter starts with Winterfylleth, named after the "winter full moon". Summer begins with Eastremonath. The year began on what Bede calls Modranect (West Saxon *Modraneaht "mother's night" = Christmas Eve (the night of the 24th of December). In addition, some years would have a third Litha, although Bede doesn't give the rule for calculating when these would be. They were called "a year of three lithas". Similarities to the mismatch between Gothic & Anglo-Saxon names for November/December, exist among the Slavonic month names, where etymologically cognate names are sometimes applied to neighbouring months in different modern Slavonic languages, e.g. Listopad = November in Czech, Polish, Ukrainian & Belorussionan, but October in Croat. The months were originally not rigidly fixed by convention in relation to the solar cycle, but calculated as they came by observation of the moon. It was only the practice of intercalating the extra month that kept them from wandering out of synch with the solstices. The trick was to stop the "after" solstice months (Æfterrra Geola & Æfterra Litha) from creeping forward to before = midwinter & midsummer respectively. But note that even the heathen English made use of one date, 24 Dec, fixed according to the Julian calendar. Observing Bede's Anglo-Saxon Calendar, by John Robert Stone: http://www.kami.demon.co.uk/gesithas/calendar/obs_bede.html The Anglo-Saxon Year by Arlea Hunt-Anschütz http://ipc.paganearth.com/diaryarticles/history/calendar.html According to Stone, the new month began with the first sighting of the crescent moon at sunset as was the practice of other lunar calendars, such as the Babylonian; this ties in with the idea of beginning days at sunset, hence Tue's Day becomes Woden's Eve when the sun goes down. Grimm, on the other hand, quotes Tacitus's mention of "a nox illunis (night without a moon) chosen for a festival", and considers that this dark night (Latin: interlunium; ON nidamyrkr; MnSw nedmörk 'pitch black') would have been counted as the first of the "New Moon", just as the full moon was regarded as the first night of the waning half of the month (He cites OHG bruch 'breaking [off]' as an alternate name for the full moon). That the interlunium was not considered separate from the cycle of waxing and waning is confirmed by the Old Gutnish formula ny ok nidar "at all times". Grimm adds that the reckoning of time went by nights because of the importance of lunar observation for the calendar, and Jordanes refers to observations of the moon (Chapter 11), as well as testifying to the sophistication of Gothic astronomy - see below. 2. THE OLD NORSE CALENDAR Thorri - name of a frost giant or popular deity (mid January to mid February) Gói (originally indeclinable feminine, but later became Góa) - another giant: the daugher of Thorri Einmánudr - One/single month Gaukmánudr, Sádtíd, Harpa - Cuckoo month, Seed tide, ? Eggtíd, Skerpla - Egg tide, ? Sólmánudr, selmánudr, Stekktíd - Sun month, Shieling mo= nth, Lamb-fold time *Auknætr (four days) - Addition nights Midsumar, Heyannir, Ormamánudr - Midsummer, Hey time, Snake month Tvímánudr, Heyaanir - Double month, Hey reaping Haustmánudr, Kornskurdarmánudr - Harvest month, Corn-cutting mont= h Gormmánudr - Slaughter month Frermánudr, Ylir - Frost month, Yule (mid November to mid December) Hrútmánudr, Jólmánudr, Mörsugr - Ram month, Yule, = Fat sucker *Sumarauki "summer addition" was added to Auknætr every five or six years (it was one week long). It has been speculated that the name Tvímánudr might point to an earlier system of intercalation in wh= ich this month was periodically doubled. It is also possible that Yule was originally a shorter period (cf. Norwegian Skammtid "short time"). The months could also be referred to as "first, second, etc. (fyrsti, annarr) month", starting with Gaukmánudr, the first month of summer. The West Norse Calendar, by Arild Hauge http://www.heithingi.com/index.php?file=./calendar.html Runic Calendars: Time Reckoning in the Viking Age http://www.vikinganswerlady.com/primstav.htm The name Thorri (Icelandic) http://www.skjal.is/index.php?item=110&show=1&mode=2&Cat=1&Sub=2 >From Cleasby & Vigfussen's Icelandic Dictionary (Watch out for the slightly garbled text...): ár 'year': "...divided into twelve lunar months, each of 30 days, with four intercalary days, thus making 364 days; as the year was reckoned about the middle of the 10th century (the original calculation probably only reckoned 360 days, and made up the difference by irregular intercalary months). About the year 960 Thorstein Surt introduced the sumarauki (intercalary week), to be inserted every seventh year, thus bringing the year up to 365 days. After the introduction of Christianity (A. D. 1000) the sumarauki was made to harmonize with the Julian calendar; but from A.D. 1700 with the Gregorian calendar..." (This last entry also comments that the Gothic JER translates not only Greek etos, Latin annus 'year', but also kairos & chronos 'time'.) Thorri, a, m. [perh. from þverra þorrinn = the month of the wanin= g or 'ebbing' winter]:—the name of the fourth winter month, the first after mid-winter; of thirty days, beginning on a Friday and eliding on a Saturday inclusively ; in the old calendar thorri is entered as beginning between the yth and 10th of Jan., and the next month, Gúe (q. v.), between the 8th and I5th of Feb., see H.E. i. 595 ; but in the new style, in Icel. Almanack, the first day of Thorri, 1873, is Friday, Jan. 24, and the last, Saturday, Feb. 22 ; mið-þorri, the= . middle of the month Th., Edda 103, Grág. ii. 306, Rb. 46, Landn. 324: = the name of this month is still the common term in Icel., the names of Jan. and Feb. being almost unknown in Icelandic country life; borra-dægriu þykja long | þegarhann blæs á nor= 0;an, a ditty, cee Gói. For the mythical origin of this month, see Orkn. (begin.) and Fb. i. 21, 22. COMPDS: jporra-blot, n. the great sacrifice when Thorri begins (in heathen times), Fas. i. 17. jþorra-kyrrur, f. pi. calm, frosty weather, said to prevail in this month. jporra-mánuðr, m. = (he month Thorri, Fb. i. 22, Rb. 516. fjorra- þræll, m. the thrall of= Th., i. e. the List day of Thorri, sec Almanack, /873, Feb. 22. (In Fundinn Nóregr & Hersu Nóregr byggdisk, Thorri is the son of = Snaer "snow", in a genealogy of elemental ancestors to the Norwegian dynasty). GÓI, f. indecl., always so in old writers, (gee, i. e. góe, B= 5;. i. 9, v. 1.), mod. góa, u, f.; the month Gói has thirty days, from the middle o= f February to the middle of March ; for the mythical origin of this word vide Fb. i. 22, Edda 103, Landn. 154, 225, Rb. 48, 50, Ann. 1276,1340, Bs. i. 9, 0. H. 64:—in Icel. the names of the winter months "þorri and Góa are still very common. COMPDS : Gói-be= ytlar, m. pi., botan. equisetum vernum hyemale, Landn. 222. Gói-blót, n. a = sacrifice in the month Góa, Fb. 1. c. Gói-mánaðr, m. the month G= 3;i, Landn. 256, Rb. 516. Gói-þræll, m. the last day of the month Góa, s= ee the Icel. almanack. (Grimm, Vol 4 p. 1364, says Rask linked Gói to Finnish koi "aurora" – = i.e. dawn.) skorpla, u, f. the second month in the summer, Edda 103; see Icel. Almanack, May 25, 1872. VIKA, u, f., gen. pi. vikna, pi. vikur: ...The ancient Scandinavians and Teutons in heathen times seem to have counted the year by pentads, called fimt, as has already been remarked s. v. fimt (p. 153), to which may be added the authority of the late Prof. Schlegel of Copenhagen in a notice of 1825, mentioned in Lex. Mythol.p. 753. The time when the Scandinavians changed their system is quite unknown; it would seem that in Icel. 'weeks' were already in use in the middle of the 10th century, could we but trust the record in lb. ch. 4 as authentic in its details. II. spec, usages in the calendar; Helga vika, the Holy-week (i.e. after Whitsun), Thorn. 22, Dipl. iii. IO, D. I. i. 594; Efita-vika, the last week of Lent, i.e. Passion-week, Orkn. 386, D.I. i. 594; Páska-vika, Easter- week; Sælu-vika, Ember-week, passim, see Icel. Almanack ; as also Auka-vika or Lagningar-vika, the additional week, intercalary week, = sumar-auki, see p. 604; fyrsta Sumar-vika, siôasta vika sumars, si›asta vika vetrar. (Vaster Gudmundsson also believed in year of 72 five-day weeks = 360 days + a leap month every five or six years.) MÁNUDR, and mánadr, m.: ...The old heathen )'ear consisted of twelve months, each of thirty days, so that a pentad (fnnmt) added to that number made the year complete. For the names of the economical months sec Edda 103 (gor-m., frer-m., hnit-ni., ein-m., sol-in., and sel-m., kornskur›ar-m.) ; tví-iuána›r (q. v.), the ' double month= ;' út-mánu›ir, the last months of the winter (foorri, Gói, Ein-= mi'mu›r), ﬁa› er koniift frani á út-múmi›i; see also the Icel. = Almanack, where the old months are still marked. Of the Julian Calendar we have Martius mána›ar, 623. 37, Rb. passim ; but that computation never came into household use in Iceland, where the old calendar (of ﬁorri= , Gói, Ein-in., etc.) still prevails for all domestic aiîairs : astron., tungl-m., a lunar month; so!-m., a solar month. la popular usage, as elsewhere, a month often means /o;/r weeks, and luilfr mánu›r, half a month = a for/night; halftun inána›i eptir mitt su= mar, Nj. 4; ;'i hálfs mána›ar fresti, within half a month, a fortnight= ,... It seems the Norse calendar differed from the English in being fixed to the sun rather than the moon. Though out of step with the Roman months, the Julian calendar was used in pre-Christian Scandinavia. Months varied not in order to accommodate the phases of the moon, but so as to begin on a certain day of the week. Later they were fixed to begin on set dates. At one time in Norway, an alternative tradition made use of double months of 59 days each, thus eliminating the irregularity caused by rounding off the lunar cycle of 29.5 solar days to 30. 3. DUTCH TRADITIONAL MONTH NAMES January - Lauwmaand ("chill month") February - Sporkel ("sprout"), Spokkelmaand, Schrikkelmaand ("the dread month"), Sille March - Lentmaant ("lengthening") May - Grasmaand ("grass month") June - Bloumaand, Bloeimaand ("blooming month") July - Zomermaand ("summer month") August - Oogstmaand ("harvest month") September - Herstmaand, Hefstmaand, Evenmaand ("harvest month, "eventide month") October - Wynmaand (i.e. Wijnmaand) November - Slagtmaand ("slaughter month") December - Wintermaand 4. GERMAN TRADITIONAL MONTH NAMES a. Old High German (9-15th century) Wintarmanoth - Winter month (January) Hornung - ?Snowing (Feb) Lenzinmanoth - Lent/lengthening month (Mar) Winnemanoth - Grazing month (Apr) Ostarmanoth - Easter month (May) Brachmanoth - Blooming month (Jun) Hewinmanoth - Hay month (Jul) Aranmanoth - Reaping month (Aug) Witumanoth - Wood month (Sep) Windumanoth - Wind month (Oct) Herbistmanoth - Harvest month (Nov) Heligmanoth - Holy month (Dec) These names, or at least their official codification, are attributed to the Emperor Charlemagne by his biographer Einhard/Eginhart, who says that previously some Franks had used the Roman names, while others native names. Given Charlemagne's respect for tradition (e.g. his collection of ancient songs), it seems unlikely that he invented them from scratch. (Vita Caroli Magni, Chapter 29). I'm not sure the meaning of Hornung is really known. I found "Snowing" on one website, but I don't know the basis for that. I wonder though if it could be related to words like ON hyrning (f) "corner", hyrningr (m) "angle", OE hyrne "corner, angle", MnE dialect: hurn, (h)on "river bend", etc. - maybe this month was seen as the turning point, when the first signs were felt that winter was ending - or maybe the name was displaced from some true (solsticial) turning point. b. (Early) Modern German (c. 15-19th century) + dialect, including some nonstandard variants of the Latin names: January - Hartung, Hartmond, Schneemond, Eismond, Wolfmond, Jenner, Jänner (still used in Austria) February - Hornung, Sporkel, Narrenmond, Schmelzmond, Feber March - Lenzing, Lenzmonat, Frühlingsmond, Mertz, Merte, Marte, Retmonat, Redtimonat (cf. OE hreth-) April - Ostermonat, Launing, Keimmonat, Knospenmonat, Aberelle, Abrille May - Wonnemonat (="joy month"), Wonnemond, Winnemond ("grazing moon"), Weidemond, Marienmond, May, Maie, Maien June - Brachmonat, Brachmond, Brachet, Rosenmond July - Heumonat, Heumond, Heuert, Heuet, Bärenmonat August - Erntemonat, Erntemond, Ährenmonat, Sichelmond, Ernting, Ouwest September - Herbstmonat, Herbstmond, Herbsting, Engelmonat, Holzmonat, Scheiding October - Weinmonat, Gilbhart ("yellow"), Nebelung ("foggy"), Dachsmond, Octember November - Wintermonat, Wintermond, Hartmond, Herbstmond, Nebelmond, Windmond December - Christmonat, Heilmond, Heiligmond, Julmonat, Wintermond, Hartmond, Schlachtmond For more on German months, search for these names, and see: DER GERMANISCHE MONDKALENDER II - DIE MONATE by Bjorgulf (German) http://www.eldaring.de/content/modules.php? name=News&file=article&sid=29 ...for a list with references. 5. RECONSTRUCTING THE GOTHIC CALENDAR The following comments on Gothic astronomy appear in Jordanes (trans. Thredrich Geat): Thus by teaching them ethics he restrained their barbarous customs; by instructing them in the science of nature, he made them live naturally under laws of their own, which they possess in written form to this day and call bi-lageineis {"laws"}. He taught them logic and made them skilled in reasoning beyond all other races; he showed them practical knowledge and so persuaded them to abound in good works. By explaining theoretical knowledge he urged them to contemplate the progress of the twelve constellations {of the zodiac} and the courses of the planets passing through them, and the whole of astronomy. He told them how the disc of the moon waxes or wanes, and showed them how much the fiery globe of the sun exceeds in size our earthly planet. He explained with which names or designations in the arching heavens the three hundred forty-six stars hurtle from their rising to their setting. Nam ethicam eos erudiens, barbaricos mores compescuit; physicam tradens, naturaliter propriis legibus vivere fecit, quas usque nunc conscriptas "belagines" nuncupant; logica instruens, rationis eos supra ceteras gentes fecit expertes; practicen ostendens, in bonis actibus conversari suasit; theoreticen demonstrans, signorum duodecim et per ea planetarum cursus omnemque astronomiam contemplari edocuit, et quomodo lunaris orbis augmentum sustinet aut patitur detrimentum, edixit, solisque globus igneus quantum terrenum orbem in mensura excedat, ostendit, aut quibus nominibus vel quibus signis in polo caeli vergente et revergente trecentae quadraginta et sex stellae ab ortu in occasum praecipites ruant, exposuit. The Goths are also described here as studying the waxing and waning of the moon. Could the number 346 have some relation to the number of days in the Gothic year, minus feast days & intercalated extras? (E.g. 346 + twelve nights of Yule + two nights of Easter (see below) = 360. And the variable remainder perhaps added at midsummer.) Some elements of the Old English month names are attested in Gothic, or hypothecized: menoths, m. - month (consonant stem) miluks, f. - milk (consonant stem) hrotheigs - glorious, triumphant *hroth - triumph, glory (in personal names) wintrus - winter (as in other early Germanic languages, a number of years was usually counted in "winters") fullithe - of full moons (this actually translates Saint Paul's words "of new moons", Col 2,26, but presumed a mistake for *niujithe; could this imply that the Goths had a full moon festival of more significance than the new? Not according to Grimm, who considered it a "mere oversight") blotan - to worship (Class VII) blotinassus - worship gudblostreis - worshipper of God *blostr, n. - worship, sacrifice (a-stem) usbloteins - worship bisauljan, bisaulnan - sully, be sullied (Related by vowel gradation to OE sol 'mud'?) *austr- - east (as in Ostrogoti) The gender and declension of fullith(s) is unknown. It could be a masculine or neuter a-stem, or a masculine or feminine consonant stem (like menoths). I wonder what the declension of thrimilci (this is the early Northumbrian form in Bede) would have been. According to Bede this referred to a time of bounty in the continental homeland of the English, so perhaps this one was unknown to the Goths. Sol 'mud', with a short vowel, is neuter in OE. Bede mentions an offering of cakes. Did the cakes have the nature or colour of mud? Were they buried in the mud? Or was it just a muddy month: February Fill-dyke, as it is now nicknamed. OE hreth, as an abstract noun is masculine, but once a neuter es/os- stem, as shown by the mutation, and by the related neuter hrothor. The hypothetical Gothic *hroth, neuter, is from Koebler - maybe *hrothis existed too? The month name is reckoned to refer to a valkyrie-like goddess of visciousness & victory, but what declension might the name be: a jo-stem (Gothic *Hrothi, like *gunthi, *hildi) perhaps? Or an on-stem from the adjective OE hrethe, maybe Gothic *Hrothjo 'the fierce'. Grimm cites German forms: Retmonat (Strassburg, 1644, = March), Redtmonet (origin?, 1404, = month?), Redimonet (Appenzelle, Switzerland, date?, =February) - though none with the standard mutation o > ö; also an OHG female name Hruodâ.= ON Blót 'sacrifice' is a neuter a-stem. OE geola; the earlier form Giuli, given by Bede, agrees more with the Gothic JIULEIS. ON y'lir (that's meant to be a long "y") was at one time "the month beginning on the second day of the week falling within Nov 10-17). The feast of Yule itself is a neuter plural in ON jól, and sometimes in OE geol, suggesting a Gothic plural *Jiula. I think this is because the "yules" were the Twelve Nights over which celebrations continued. Similarly, according to Grimm, Easter was originally plural because the feast lasted two days, the (OHG) Ôstartagâ. OE Lîtha. The gentle month? Bede's explanation points both to the mildness of the weather, but also to the verb lithan 'go, travel': what people did on account of the mild weather - at least one of these explanations must be a folk etymology... No adjective *lintheis appears in Gothic, but it might lie behind Romance borrowings from Germanic, quite possibly Gothic, such as Spanish, Portuguese lindo (see Koebler *lind-). Another idea is that OE Litha might have been a term for the moon, but I don't know the full reasoning behind this argument, or the etymology. Then there's Gothic leithu 'strong drink, fruit wine', OE lîth, which one hopes was part of the celebrations at least, if not the name... Or is the month name an ancient term for summer cognate with Slavonic (Czech) léto? OE also has a compound: lîthadl "gout". Lith "limb" is no= t related, having a short vowel. The Oxford English Dictionary, however, sides with the first explanation, "gentle", citing examples of _lithe_ used of calm weather or a lull, also a "warm shelter". OE Eastremonath, derived by Bede from the goddess Eostre (Northumbrian spelling = West Saxon Eastre). Was there a Gothic goddess *Austro, a feast day *Austrons (grammatically plural, like *Jiula), and maybe a month *Austramenoths? Or did the Goths, as Christians, adopt Paska (originally Passover), from the Greek? (cf. ON páskir "easter"). Grimm mentions Basque Ostara "May", but he says = this is "a mere accidental resemblance", apparently, and derives from Basque ostoa "leaf, foliage". Soooo... Here's my attempt at a reconstructing the Gothic months on the basis of Old English. ____OE______MnE________Gothic_______ Ærra Geola - December - *AFTUMA JIULEIS Æfterra Geola - January - *SULAMENOTHS Solmonath - February - *HROTHIMENOTHS Hrethmonath - March - *AUSTRAMENOTHS Eostremonath - April - *THRIMILUKI? Thrimilci - May - *FRUMA LINTHJA? leitha? Ærra Litha - June - *ANTHAR LINTHJA? leitha? Æfterra Litha - July - *WIUDAMENOTHS Weodmonath - August - *HAILAGAMENOTHS, or * (SA) HAILAGA MENOTHS, *ASANAMENOTHS Haligmonath (later: Hærfestmonath) - September - *WINTRUFULLITHS Winterfylleth - October - *BLOTAMENOTHS Blotmonath - November - FRUMA JIULEIS Of course, chances are the real Gothic calendar diverged from the Anglo-Saxon much more than this, both in names and their application, just as the Norse and German did. Maybe it shared features with the calendars of other Germanic peoples. Or maybe the old names were soon abandoned in favour of the Roman ones. Or maybe just a few relics survived like Fruma Jiuleis alongside the Latin names. Probably there were multiple variants across the wide area settled by the Goths, just as there were within the other Germanic traditions. Probably we'll never know. Here's an alternative highly speculative calendar, being mainly a mix of English and (Old High) German names, mostly using (hypothetical) cognates although Friusa- is a calque on Lauwmaand, Eismond, etc.): January - *FRIUSAMENOTHS, *EISAMENOTHS, *HARDUMENOTHS, *HARDIGGS February - *HAURNIGGS, *SULAMENOTHS March - *LAGGATEINS, *HROTHIMENOTHS April - *AUSTRAMENOTHS (or *Paskamenoths) May - *WINJAMENOTHS June - FRUMA *LINTHJA, *GRASAMENOTHS July - AFTUMA *LINTHJA, *HAUJAMENOTHS August - *ASANAMENOTHS September - *HAILAGAMENOTHS, *WIDUMENOTHS, *AKRANAMENOTHS October - *WINTRUFULLITHS November - FRUMA JIULEIS December - * AFTUMA JIULEIS I wonder if there is any other evidence lurking out there... I guess it might be possible to narrow down when the hay harvest and the corn harvest would have been in various Gothic territories. Llama Nom __________________________________________ Bede, the Venerable, "De temporum ratione" (On the Reckoning of the Seasons), Chapter 15 Grimm, J, (trans. Stallybras, J), "Teutonic Mythology", (trans.) 1883 (for the moon & time, see Vol 2, 708-715; for Eastre & Hreth, see Vol 1, 288-291) Herbert, K, "Looking For the Lost Gods of England", Anglo-Saxon Books, 1994 Stone JR, "Observing Bede's Anglo-Saxon Calendar", Tha Engliscan Gesithas Members Handbook, 1998 --- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, "Manie Lombard" <manielombard at c...> wrote: > Háils Llama Nom > > > > Thank you very much for your reply!!! Has anybody already tried to reconstruct the Gothic names according to the Old English names? > > > > My attempt (according to the Latin forms): > > > > January: *januarius (or *ianuarius?) > > February: *faíbruarius > > March: *martius > > April: *aprilis > > May: *maius > > June: *junius (*iunius?) > > July: *julius (*iulius?) > > August: *awgustus > > September: *saíptaímbaír > > October: *aúktaúbaír > > November: naúbaímbaír > > December: *daíkaímbaír > > > > > > The days of the week according to your information and the list of Gerhard Köbler: > > > > Monday: ? > > Tuesday: *areinsdags, *arjausdags > > Wednesday: ? > > Thursday: *pintadags, *paíntedags, paraskaíwe > > Friday: *pareinsdags > > Saturday: sabbato > > Sunday: *fráujinsdags > > > > > > So for Monday and Wednesday we don't have any knowledge so far? > > > > > > Regards > > Manie > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: llama_nom > To: gothic-l at yahoogroups.com > Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2004 6:47 AM > Subject: [gothic-l] Re: háils > > > > Hails Manie! > > I believe the Fagino Maria (Hail Mary) you quote is a modern > reconstruction, based on Luk:1:28 "jah galeithands inn sa aggilus du > izai qath: fagino, anstai audahafta, frauja mith thus; thiuthido thu > in qinom." And I would guess that the lack of dots above the capital > I of Iesus is just a product of the computer font used to transcribe > the Gothic letters. That is to say, perhaps the upper case > equivalent of ď wasn't available in this particular font, or else was > felt unnecessary for the sake of clarity since a capital letter will > always be found at the start of a word anyway. > > The Gothic calender gives in addition to Naubaimbair, the > synonymous "fruma jiuleis" (the first Jiuleis), this being the native > Germanic name. Judging by the Old English calendar, we can guess > that the following month would have been "sa anthar jiuleis". More > speculatively, one could reconstruct Gothic forms for the other > months according to the Old English names... > > Regarding the days of the week, the Bible contains Sabbato (Saturday, > that is The Sabbath). Also in the Bible, are "fruma sabbato" which > is used at Mk 15,42 for "Sabbath eve" = "the day before the Sabbath", > but at Mk 16,9 it signifies "the day after the Sabbath". > > Intriguingly, there exist in some southern German speaking regions > alternate names for some weekdays, which seem to show the influence > of the Greek day names. It is possible that these were taken into > German through Gothic. Here is a list of the reconstructed Gothic > forms mentioned in Gerhard Koebler's "Gotisches Woerterbuch": > > *areinsdags - Tuesday > *pintadags - Thursday > *pareinsdags - Friday > > I have read that there is a Swiss name for Sunday: Frontag. This > one's not mentioned in Koebler's dictionary. I wonder if it could > have been inspired by a Gothic *fraujinsdags? (Greek: hee kuriakee). > > Llama Nom > > > --- In gothic-l at yahoogroups.com, "Manie Lombard" <manielombard at c...> > wrote: > > Hails! > > > > My name is Manie Lombard. I'm 41, married, have two children and > live in Viena, Austria. I'm generally interested in languages. The > reason why I joined this group is, because I've got some questions. > > > > Are the gothic names of the week days known, and if yes, what are > they called? Are the names of the months known, besides "Naubaimbair" > in your "Kalender.int.txt"? > > > > In gothic, you have two "i"s. > > In J. Wright's grammar it says: "The Gothic character ď was used at > the begining of a word and medially after a vowel not belonging to > the same syllable" Now I find in the Gothic "Hail Mary": > > > > > > > > Fagino Maria, > > anstai audahafta, > > frauja miţ ţus; > > ţiuţido ţu ďn qinom, > > ţiuţido akran > > qeiţaus ţeinis, Iesus. > > > > > > > > Is the "I" of Iesus intentionally an I without two dots? And if so, > why? > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards > > > > Manie > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > You are a member of the Gothic-L list. 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