Ninja Dodo









Level 4 Re: Hellas - greek vases v21 « Reply #280 on: March 26, 2014, 03:27:09 PM »



Hellas has been effectively on hold for about six months now. My excuse is I have been mostly working on finishing



So, good and bad news: Since January I've been doing full-time animation work, which once again means less time for vases... but, on the plus-side my employer has no problem with me continuing my projects on my own time (which is worryingly rare by the way) so what free time I have will be put to good use. And this does mean I'll have more budget for things like going to festivals, buying necessary materials etc, or maybe a research trip.



Now that I've wrapped up a few of those other projects I can get back to Hellas with renewed focus. Here's some stuff I'm working on now:







A first attempt at translating that rough menu mockup I did earlier to an actual thing, all of the current test levels in one place. Eventually this will be more like: STORY, VERSUS, OPTIONS and CREDITS or something like that, with separate galleries breaking individual stories into parts.



More soon. So here's a long overdue update on what's going on with this project:Hellas has been effectively on hold for about six months now. My excuse is I have been mostly working on finishing this , and animating for this , and this . For most of the last two years or so I've been alternating between my own projects and freelance animation work. Sometimes this has meant very little progress here.So,: Since January I've been doing full-time animation work, which once again means less time for vases... but, on the plus-side my employer has no problem with me continuing my projects on my own time (which is worryingly rare by the way) so what free time I have will be put to good use. And this does mean I'll have more budget for things like going to festivals, buying necessary materials etc, or maybe a research trip.Now that I've wrapped up a few of those other projects I can get back towith renewed focus. Here's some stuff I'm working on now:A first attempt at translating that rough menu mockup I did earlier to an actual thing, all of the current test levels in one place. Eventually this will be more like: STORY, VERSUS, OPTIONS and CREDITS or something like that, with separate galleries breaking individual stories into parts. Logged Guppy - Hellas - Pause Pirate - Rosetta

Ninja Dodo









Level 4 Re: Hellas - greek vases v21 « Reply #282 on: May 10, 2014, 12:48:05 AM »







I'm working on the player being able to lift and throw heavy objects like stones without divine intervention, with some temporary thumbnail sprites. The skull and bones thing is a debug visualization for the damage an object emits, colour-coded for who owns the damage (in this case player 1). This is to encourage emergent situations - anything that emits damage will damage anything that can receive damage - but I can also disable friendly fire where necessary or have certain enemies damage other enemies, but not others of the same type... like a boar will charge past other boars but it will crush a skeleton, a rock thrown by the gods does neutral damage, etc. Since last I showed footage of the game it seems animated GIFs have become the agreed upon method of showing games in action. Far be it from to resist this new development:I'm working on the player being able to lift and throw heavy objects like stones without divine intervention, with some temporary thumbnail sprites. The skull and bones thing is a debug visualization for the damage an object emits, colour-coded for who owns the damage (in this case player 1). This is to encourage emergent situations - anything that emits damage will damage anything that can receive damage - but I can also disable friendly fire where necessary or have certain enemies damage other enemies, butothers of the same type... like a boar will charge past other boars but it will crush a skeleton, a rock thrown by the gods does neutral damage, etc. Logged Guppy - Hellas - Pause Pirate - Rosetta

Mongolianmisfit







TIGBaby Re: Hellas - greek vases v23 « Reply #288 on: February 21, 2015, 03:01:11 PM » I've been tracking this game since it first popped up on indiedb.com. I still excited for its release and I'm loving the new demo build. In fact, I made a TIG account just so I could post on this thread. I really hope this game isn't abandoned, as even in the wake of Apotheon, Hellas still feels unique enough to have its own audience. I eagerly await more updates on development. Good luck! Logged

Ninja Dodo









Level 4 Re: Hellas - greek vases v23 « Reply #292 on: March 28, 2015, 03:55:33 AM »





So as I'm continuing this devlog, I may as well elaborate on some recent design decisions...



When I finished the prototype I thought I'd covered most of the key gameplay elements and the rest of the game would mostly be level and enemy design, even though I knew in the back of my mind certain elements of the stories I wanted to cover would require new mechanics if I was going to stay more or less true to the source material. It turns out that some of these new elements are trickier to design and implement than I thought (welcome to game development ). Case in point: moving platforms.



Another such problem was the carrying of objects.







The hero, Herakles, does quite a lot of lifting things and it's also somewhat of



Question was, how to add this in a way that fit elegantly with existing controls?



The game is most fun when the player is moving around so it was important to avoid limiting mobility too much, but also to keep the system similar to spears so as not to be confusing.



Contstraints:

- don't pick up objects when intending sword attack

- want to be able to pick up things quickly and easily without having to stop

- avoid adding new buttons if possible (needs to work on gamepad + less confusing)

- should be intuitive/consistent



Option one: Make them exactly like spears where pressing ATTACK near any heavy object will lift it, but this would mean accidentally picking up nearby stones when you want to attack...



Option two: DOWN + ATTACK, like Spelunky, but since duck/block brings everything to a halt this conflicts with the aim of keeping the player mobile. Also prevents sword attack from blocking near liftable objects.



Option three: I considered HELD ATTACK to lift but such a delay would also effectively mean stopping the player, preventing mobility.



Another question: should I even allow picking up objects while you are standing on them, Super Mario Bros 2 style? My initial thought was no and while this made logical sense, it felt unintuitive having to first step down to grab an object and broke the flow of movement.



Option four: A separate button for grabbing objects, but I didn't want to do that since it would be confusing when you grab spears with ATTACK, plus the game is already bordering on too many buttons.



My solution (as seen in v23) was to create separate armed and unarmed states which the player could switch between with DROP/CANCEL so that they can put away their sword and then simply press ATTACK, same as spears, to pick up any heavy object. Also allows for the possibility of using ATTACK as a contextual action or talk button when unarmed, which may be useful later.



Fairly happy with how it's working now. @KRSplat & Franklins: Thanks.So as I'm continuing this devlog, I may as well elaborate on some recent design decisions...When I finished the prototype I thought I'd covered most of the key gameplay elements and the rest of the game would mostly be level and enemy design, even though I knew in the back of my mind certain elements of the stories I wanted to cover would require new mechanics if I was going to stay more or less true to the source material. It turns out that some of these new elements are trickier to design and implement than I thought (welcome to game development). Case in point:Another such problem wasThe hero, Herakles, does quite a lot of lifting things and it's also somewhat of a recurring visual theme in Greek art. Being able to lift and throw objects was always going to be something the game would need.Question was, how to add this in a way that fit elegantly with existing controls?The game is most fun when the player is moving around so it was important to avoid limiting mobility too much, but also to keep the system similar to spears so as not to be confusing.- don't pick up objects when intending sword attack- want to be able to pick up things quickly and easily without having to stop- avoid adding new buttons if possible (needs to work on gamepad + less confusing)- should be intuitive/consistentMake them exactly like spears where pressing ATTACK near any heavy object will lift it, but this would mean accidentally picking up nearby stones when you want to attack...DOWN + ATTACK, like, but since duck/block brings everything to a halt this conflicts with the aim of keeping the player mobile. Also prevents sword attack from blocking near liftable objects.I considered HELD ATTACK to lift but such a delay would also effectively mean stopping the player, preventing mobility.Another question: should I even allow picking up objects while you are standing on them,style? My initial thought wasand while this made logical sense, it felt unintuitive having to first step down to grab an object and broke the flow of movement.A separate button for grabbing objects, but I didn't want to do that since it would be confusing when you grab spears with ATTACK, plus the game is already bordering on too many buttons.(as seen in v23) was to create separateandstates which the player could switch between with DROP/CANCEL so that they can put away their sword and then simply press ATTACK, same as spears, to pick up any heavy object. Also allows for the possibility of using ATTACK as a contextual action or talk button when unarmed, which may be useful later.Fairly happy with how it's working now. « Last Edit: September 24, 2015, 04:11:10 AM by Ninja Dodo » Logged Guppy - Hellas - Pause Pirate - Rosetta

Ninja Dodo









Level 4 Re: Hellas - greek vases v23 « Reply #293 on: March 28, 2015, 04:33:42 AM »



http://www.ninjadodo.net/temp/mactest/Hellas.app.zip



I was going to do Linux for v23 as well, but I somehow managed to break my virtual Ubuntu and am having trouble getting it working again so, uh, that will be later. If you follow my other project, Guppy , you might already be aware that I'm looking into supporting Mac going forward. I've been tinkering with it for a bit and it seems to be working now. I've uploaded a build here if anyone wants to try it out:I was going to do Linux for v23 as well, but I somehow managed to break my virtual Ubuntu and am having trouble getting it working again so, uh, Logged Guppy - Hellas - Pause Pirate - Rosetta

Ninja Dodo









Level 4 Re: Hellas - greek vases v23 « Reply #294 on: December 03, 2015, 02:24:23 AM » semi-procedural rock formations for Hellas. I'd been thinking about how to handle natural environments in this game for a while and this seemed like a good time to









On Procedural Elements



Now, I've always wanted to have *some* procedural bits in the game, but hadn't really landed on exactly how and where. Working on really bored of testing the same level over and over and having some randomized elements helps break up the repetition, increasing replayability, and making development a lot more enjoyable.



My initial thought was to do something akin to Left 4 Dead's



Randomizing level layouts seemed interesting as well but outside of maybe Daedalus' labyrinth I couldn't think of a good in-fiction justification for randomly changing environments (and I do like to have one where possible).



Then I thought: hang on a minute... Oral tradition!



One of the key features of Greek myth is that it's slightly different every time! There is no single correct version. While the broad strokes and themes tend to stay the same, details change with each telling. Why not environments? It's perfect!



So in keeping with this tradition, each playthrough will be a slightly different version: with directed but variable levels (to varying degrees), procedural generation somewhere between Left 4 Dead, Spelunky and Diablo, and player choices that map to different known versions of the stories... more replayable, more fun to develop and more in keeping with the source material!



An early test version (with placeholder sketch art) is up on itchio:



... or here:



In other news, I finally went on a research trip to Athens, Delphi, Epidaurus, Mycenae and Nemea. Here are So a couple weeks ago was PROCJAM , and for the occasion I decided to do some work onfor. I'd been thinking about how to handle natural environments in this game for a while and this seemed like a good time to make some progress on that.Now, I've always wanted to haveprocedural bits in the game, but hadn't really landed on exactly how and where. Working on Guppy taught me that sooner or later you get reallybored of testing the same level over and overand having some randomized elements helps break up the repetition, increasing replayability, and making development a lot more enjoyable.My initial thought was to do something akin to AI Director where the level design is static but encounters are dynamically varied based on how the player is doing. So one time an enemy might come from one direction and the next time he might appear sooner (or later) and from the other side, with different emergent elements affecting the outcome.Randomizing level layouts seemed interesting as well but outside of maybe Daedalus' labyrinth I couldn't think of a good in-fiction justification for randomly changing environments (and I do like to have one where possible).Then I thought:...One of the key features of Greek myth is that it's slightly different every time!While the broad strokes and themes tend to stay the same, details change with each telling. Why not environments? It's perfect!So in keeping with this tradition, each playthrough will be a slightly different version: with directed but variable levels (to varying degrees), procedural generation somewhere betweenand, and player choices that map to different known versions of the stories... more replayable, more fun to develop and more in keeping with the source material!An(with placeholder sketch art) is up on itchio: http://ninjadodo.itch.io/hellasrocktest ... or here: http://ninjadodo.net/temp/hellas/hellas_procjam_rocktest_v3.zip In other news, I finally went on atoand. Here are some photos Logged Guppy - Hellas - Pause Pirate - Rosetta