kamkerx Profile Blog Joined August 2011 United States 264 Posts Last Edited: 2013-05-04 02:32:30 #1 ZvZ fast third with ling upgrades



By SCAKamker











Hello TL, thank you all for viewing my latest guide!







My name is Nick McGregor aka "SCAKamker" and this is my first guide on TL. I was a Grand Master zerg in Wings, and am currently high masters in hots. This guide will be for a very safe and economic ZvZ play style utilizing the Zergling quick upgrades and a very fast third.







Main Objective + Show Spoiler + Use upgraded zerglings to establish and maintain an economic advantage, then use your delayed but much strong tech to defeat your opponent







Ok lets talk about the build, there are 2 openings I use for this style but for now were going to focus on the general one. This one being very safe and possible on all maps







And it goes as follows: 15 pool



16 hatch



16 gas speed at 100



15 overlord



2 queens from main



24 third queen from nat



at 50 gas a spine and baneling nest



then when you hit 75 gas, assuming you don't have to make any banelings you put down 1 evo which will start plus 1 carapace upon completion and then plus melee after that



then when you reach full saturation on both bases you take a third and make pure speedling



Its also possible to play greedier this is just the safest variation of the build, but the play can be applied to any opening







Special build + Show Spoiler + For the special build everything is the same but i switch the timing of my bane nest for my evo chamber and get the upgrade much sooner, and I'm able to do this on certain maps where you can wall off with an evo and a spine crawler ex. zerus prime







Now how to play this style + Show Spoiler + In hots the ZvZ match up has evolved mostly into 2 base muta vs 2 base muta. I find this very tedious, and feel it leaves me with very few options and opportunities to outplay my opponent. This style has been my solution.



We take a very fast third using our upgraded lings to defend it. Also the plus 1 armor of our lings gives us a nice timing to hit a greedy zerg with mass ling baneling befor his mutas are out. Along with denying the third of your standard muta/ling zerg. Leaving us on three bases vs the two of our opponent. We then tech to our own mutas and win through superior gas and muta count







The Specifics





How to play vs. 2 base muta w/ no third or when you denie it with ling bane + Show Spoiler + You're on 3 base to your opponents 2 great! But he has mutas out? No problem!



You are going to use mass upgraded ling/bane to counter attack his main/nat (or third if he tries to take one) anytime his mutas leave his base, while back at home you're building queens from all of your hatcheries along with necessary spores while waiting for your own mutas to pop out.



You then defend on 3 base with your queen muta until he gg's or kill him when he tries to take his third



replays standard





How to play vs. Quick third from your opponent + Show Spoiler + Upon your opponent seeing your quick third base he may think he can take one of his own LET HIM. He will be stockpiling his gas getting ready to compete with you on mutas all while your waiting for your carapace to finish so you can hit him with a mass ling baneling attack (im talking 20 plus banes) killing his third and often winning you the game right out... However if your opponent is tenacious and still in the game you simply follow the guidelines from the previous step how to play vs. 2 base muta w/ no third or when you denie it with ling bane



Replays Special build

Normal build





But what if my opponent goes roaches? + Show Spoiler + if your opponent does a roach build its the same principal as mutas you can keep him pinned back in his base with lings while building a superior roach army. Or you can defend the roaches my favorit way with mass spine/ling bane. The key with ling bane vs roach is moving banes to the center of the roach army for maximum splash while upgraded lings nibble up the remaining roaches



replays vs roach all in







Key things to remember/Tips





If your opponents defenses look weak don't be afraid to go all out with the plus 1 carapace timing (i often use all my gas on the banelings) if you kill all your opponents drones and units it doesn't really matter that he made 12 mutas



make as many lings as you have to for stalling purposes to get your own queens, mutas, spores out vs a 2 base muta/ling zerg



counter attacking and multi-prong harass is your best friend with this build



don't be afraid to take ling bane engagements unless your opponent did a ling upgrade build your lings will smoke theirs







Thanks for reading and Good Luck



any questions/suggestions feel free to leave a comment here



You can follow my stream here



And follow me on twitter here







Hello TL, thank you all for viewing my latest guide!My name is Nick McGregor aka "SCAKamker" and this is my first guide on TL. I was a Grand Master zerg in Wings, and am currently high masters in hots. This guide will be for a very safe and economic ZvZ play style utilizing the Zergling quick upgrades and a very fast third.Ok lets talk about the build, there are 2 openings I use for this style but for now were going to focus on the general one. This one being very safe and possible on all mapsAnd it goes as follows: + Show Spoiler + replays + Show Spoiler + Replays + Show Spoiler + replays + Show Spoiler + If your opponents defenses look weak don't be afraid to go all out with the plus 1 carapace timing (i often use all my gas on the banelings) if you kill all your opponents drones and units it doesn't really matter that he made 12 mutasmake as many lings as you have to for stalling purposes to get your own queens, mutas, spores out vs a 2 base muta/ling zergcounter attacking and multi-prong harass is your best friend with this builddon't be afraid to take ling bane engagements unless your opponent did a ling upgrade build your lings will smoke theirsThanks for reading and Good Luckany questions/suggestions feel free to leave a comment hereYou can follow my stream here Stream And follow me on twitter here twitter

Qwyn Profile Blog Joined December 2010 United States 2772 Posts #2 . I would suggest cleaning up the formatting a bit more and removing all the double spaces everywhere. Try to block paragraphs by subject and fix up grammar a bit more. The concept is strong and I've been doing something similar in my own ZvZs. I like it. I would suggest cleaning up the formatting a bit more and removing all the double spaces everywhere. Try to block paragraphs by subject and fix up grammar a bit more. The concept is strong and I've been doing something similar in my own ZvZs. "Think of the hysteria following the realization that they consciously consume babies and raise the dead people from their graves" - N0

Moosegills Profile Joined March 2011 United States 558 Posts #3 You put down evo at 75 gas not 50 gas if you are trying to get carapace #1 HuK fan, zerg player playing for http://www.complexitygaming.com - @coL_Moosegills

kamkerx Profile Blog Joined August 2011 United States 264 Posts #4 Thanks you're right gonna fix now

408xParadox Profile Joined December 2011 United States 140 Posts #5 When do we throw down the spire?

kamkerx Profile Blog Joined August 2011 United States 264 Posts #6 i get lair between 8-10 mins depending on how many banelings i make and spire right away usually once lair finishes

IcemanAsi Profile Joined March 2011 Israel 672 Posts #7

I thought about using ( ling/bane -> upgraded carpace -> early 3rd base ) as well, but I thought instead of then trying to match his muta to go into ( ling/bane/hydra/queen ).

Thanks, I'll start from your build and try my deviation on it, thanks for saving me a lot of time

hmm, I was just thinking about something like this as trying to counter muta-muta with infestor tech isn't working for me.I thought about using ( ling/bane -> upgraded carpace -> early 3rd base ) as well, but I thought instead of then trying to match his muta to go into ( ling/bane/hydra/queen ).Thanks, I'll start from your build and try my deviation on it, thanks for saving me a lot of time

Kaleidos Profile Joined October 2010 Italy 172 Posts #8 Nice guide!. I was trying something similar to this. but i did add borrow to be even more annoying with lings harass (which might be a must go choice if the cost is reduced to 50 50).



I used to transition out into infestors ..which wasn't always a success ..but seemed ok.

Will definetely give a shot to the muta switch!



Insoleet Profile Joined May 2012 France 1805 Posts #9 What are the best counters to this tactic ?



I used to play a similar style, with infestors later.

blade55555 Profile Blog Joined March 2009 United States 17373 Posts Last Edited: 2013-05-04 08:03:51 #10 On May 04 2013 16:55 Insoleet wrote:

What are the best counters to this tactic ?



I used to play a similar style, with infestors later.



If you do a standard mutalisk build you can defend this (and your third) with ling/bane. You have to be aware this is coming though. He gets a baneling nest and then carapace so his upgrades are late and by the time his carapace finish your mutalisks should be almost out or about to start morphing (which is the vulnerable timing).



If you see an evo or mass lings I get my own evo and +1 melee (to counteract the armor) and just play normal from there.



Not a bad guide but OP you might want to explain things a little better and stuff but not bad.



If you do a standard mutalisk build you can defend this (and your third) with ling/bane. You have to be aware this is coming though. He gets a baneling nest and then carapace so his upgrades are late and by the time his carapace finish your mutalisks should be almost out or about to start morphing (which is the vulnerable timing).If you see an evo or mass lings I get my own evo and +1 melee (to counteract the armor) and just play normal from there.Not a bad guide but OP you might want to explain things a little better and stuff but not bad. On May 04 2013 13:53 kamkerx wrote:

i get lair between 8-10 mins depending on how many banelings i make and spire right away usually once lair finishes



This is a very late lair which is why your ling attack really does have to do damage. A zerg going standard mutalisk should have a lair done before you even start yours (and your upgrade won't be done either). This is imo the biggest weakness of your build is if the zerg opponent defends properly your mutalisks are going to be a lot later which for you is going to be 2 minutes later which pretty much means you lose unless you can do some good damage. This is a very late lair which is why your ling attack really does have to do damage. A zerg going standard mutalisk should have a lair done before you even start yours (and your upgrade won't be done either). This is imo the biggest weakness of your build is if the zerg opponent defends properly your mutalisks are going to be a lot later which for you is going to be 2 minutes later which pretty much means you lose unless you can do some good damage. When I think of something else, something will go here

Mad_Mardigon Profile Joined January 2011 United States 52 Posts #11 This is a very broken matchup so all of this study is unimportant, they ruined zvz by making mutas faster. nuff said.



Navious Profile Joined September 2010 Canada 4 Posts #12 I love you :D Watch out, I'm gonna be a pro before you know it! you think I'm joking don't you...

afiLiazn Profile Joined February 2012 United States 47 Posts #13 nice guide, professor Kamker

Karpfen Profile Joined April 2012 Italy 789 Posts #14 On May 04 2013 18:05 Mad_Mardigon wrote:

This is a very broken matchup so all of this study is unimportant, they ruined zvz by making mutas faster. nuff said.



Nuff useless blabbering from you indeed.



Yesterday I was thinking of something similar..this sounds really nice. Nuff useless blabbering from you indeed.Yesterday I was thinking of something similar..this sounds really nice.

kamkerx Profile Blog Joined August 2011 United States 264 Posts #15 On May 04 2013 16:32 Kaleidos wrote:

Nice guide!. I was trying something similar to this. but i did add borrow to be even more annoying with lings harass (which might be a must go choice if the cost is reduced to 50 50).



I used to transition out into infestors ..which wasn't always a success ..but seemed ok.

Will definetely give a shot to the muta switch!



Wow I don't know why I was getting burrow before defiantly going to now. Wow I don't know why I was getting burrow before defiantly going to now.

kamkerx Profile Blog Joined August 2011 United States 264 Posts #16 On May 04 2013 17:00 blade55555 wrote:

Show nested quote +

On May 04 2013 16:55 Insoleet wrote:

What are the best counters to this tactic ?



I used to play a similar style, with infestors later.



If you do a standard mutalisk build you can defend this (and your third) with ling/bane. You have to be aware this is coming though. He gets a baneling nest and then carapace so his upgrades are late and by the time his carapace finish your mutalisks should be almost out or about to start morphing (which is the vulnerable timing).



If you see an evo or mass lings I get my own evo and +1 melee (to counteract the armor) and just play normal from there.



Not a bad guide but OP you might want to explain things a little better and stuff but not bad.



Show nested quote +

On May 04 2013 13:53 kamkerx wrote:

i get lair between 8-10 mins depending on how many banelings i make and spire right away usually once lair finishes



This is a very late lair which is why your ling attack really does have to do damage. A zerg going standard mutalisk should have a lair done before you even start yours (and your upgrade won't be done either). This is imo the biggest weakness of your build is if the zerg opponent defends properly your mutalisks are going to be a lot later which for you is going to be 2 minutes later which pretty much means you lose unless you can do some good damage. If you do a standard mutalisk build you can defend this (and your third) with ling/bane. You have to be aware this is coming though. He gets a baneling nest and then carapace so his upgrades are late and by the time his carapace finish your mutalisks should be almost out or about to start morphing (which is the vulnerable timing).If you see an evo or mass lings I get my own evo and +1 melee (to counteract the armor) and just play normal from there.Not a bad guide but OP you might want to explain things a little better and stuff but not bad.This is a very late lair which is why your ling attack really does have to do damage. A zerg going standard mutalisk should have a lair done before you even start yours (and your upgrade won't be done either). This is imo the biggest weakness of your build is if the zerg opponent defends properly your mutalisks are going to be a lot later which for you is going to be 2 minutes later which pretty much means you lose unless you can do some good damage.



You bring valid points this type of style is mostly a meta game move where you hit zergs hard that are trying to save as much money as possible for their mutas, even if they defend well I think it usually puts you on a close to even footing because they have to invest just about as much as you into banelings.



I also am studying up on guides others wrote so my next one will hopefully be a little clearer.

You bring valid points this type of style is mostly a meta game move where you hit zergs hard that are trying to save as much money as possible for their mutas, even if they defend well I think it usually puts you on a close to even footing because they have to invest just about as much as you into banelings.I also am studying up on guides others wrote so my next one will hopefully be a little clearer.

Thieflord Profile Joined November 2012 United States 4 Posts #17 I love the Zergling token, I wish there were cards that summoned zergling tokens ;3.

Gene(S)is Profile Joined May 2010 Sweden 399 Posts #18 So I tried this out, the opponent pulled quite a few tricks on me. First he came with a flock of mutas which my spores and 5 queens defended with ease thanks to transfusions. Then he went for mass lings and some banes, fortunately I had a similar army only upgraded and defended that as well.



He then goes for an expo and attacks with roach, hydras and infestors and once again my upgraded lings and mutas managed to deal with it suprisingly well. I go for a 3rd and he goes for a 4th and I send flocks of lings to take out drones from both expos thus putting him quite behind in his so called investment. He then goes for swarm hosts, about 15 of them along with infestors and some mutas. The locusts did quite well against my ground army and I lost my 3rd but I managed to win the anti-air war and in the end he was defeated.



An intense, dangerous and fun way to play. My 3-3 lings dominated his forces which lacked the same upgrades. For the swarm

schwza Profile Joined September 2011 67 Posts #19 Can you post some more replays? In the only one under "standard" you crush his initial aggression so hard that I feel like you could have done anything and won.

kamkerx Profile Blog Joined August 2011 United States 264 Posts #20 Defiantly I think I have some from wcs, Its just that all my reps are on a thumb drive so it takes extremely long to look through them. :D

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