Hanametic said: Sure, you run Jolly and not Adamant but I was speaking that they still have the potential to do the same damage, and on just about any non defensive mon that takes this hit, it doesn't change it from becoming a 2HKO. Even so, a reduce in the slightest damage can make a difference but is definitely not a breaking point for this mon..

Zydog is not a defensive measure to steel types, nor had I ever said so, obviously you don't send this shit into Heatrans for the exact same reason you don't send your Greninja into random Magma Storms. You never switch this shit into random attacks (but in my case, I did have a HW Gardevoir) because it's frail obviously, it's purely an offensive mon. It pressures steels because common steel types in the meta will absolutely switch when Zygarde is out on the field such as Tran, Mag, and a lot of shit that is supposed to deal with grounds in the meta such as Zapdos/Rotom/Celesteela will not switch into this move either. You never sent regular Zygarde into Tran in the first place because why the hell would you take so much chip on a mon that can play as a win condition against many teams? Nobody is expecting anything defensively from this mon. Click to expand...

Hanametic said: About the replay - I explicitly stated that the replays were not the best; but you can still see how this mon does work against many teams with the right support. Even if said player didn't fuck up with his Chansey, there was so many opportunities for Zygarde to do work if hazards did get up that if he didn't click toxic, Zygarde wouldn't have been on a timer and would continuously applied pressure if it got the chance to hit a weakened mon. I never needed to send in Zygarde to Quag EQs etc, because I had a team that helps get breakers in. Eject button pex, U-turn Torn. Saying this is pretty dumb tbh because you don't send in breakers into random hits that would put them in an unfavorable state like stated before, you don't send Greninja into Trans Magma storms, etc. But you are right that it shouldn't straight out 6-0 stall anymore, due to it being Jolly, but even that replay shows how stall teams are built to counter a mon like Zydog anymore. Other replays show how teams that rely on shit like Tornadus and Zapdos as answers to ground will really be caught off guard by it and rely on switch ins that don't take thousand arrows well Click to expand...

Hanametic said: It pressures steels because common steel types in the meta will absolutely switch when Zygarde is out on the field such as Tran, Mag, and a lot of shit that is supposed to deal with grounds in the meta such as Zapdos/Rotom/Celesteela will not switch into this move either.



Other replays show how teams that rely on shit like Tornadus and Zapdos as answers to ground will really be caught off guard by it and rely on switch ins that don't take thousand arrows well.



It's niche is that teams aren't prepared for dealing with TA because common defensive play to any other ground attacks do not work against it. It is no stranger that very few mons can actually switch into this shit, but can you honestly say that teams aren't prepared for Nidoking in the meta? Not necessarily. Nidoking is basically only gonna shine vs fat, which isn't the case where Zygarde is going to be doing nothing against a lot of teams. Click to expand...

Problem with Zydog being frail is not about switching in, its about what it forces out. While it can beat Flying types, such as Zapdos and Celesteela, it can't force them out. Each one if at any siginifcant Hp can Ohko, or threaten crippling it with Status or huge damage, unlike Zygarde 50% with its bulk, didnt care if the opponent stayed in. Even if you are in on something you force out, many teams won't care as the have a consistent answer. Tangrowth is picking up in usage compared to Bulu, especially is Helmet set on Sand teams, M.Scizor has also picked up in usage, with can gain free momentum or Knock Off. Scarf and Defensive Landorus comes in safely which is noticeably bad, allowing to Rocks, Defog and even threatens Zydog with the 2hko from U-Turn after Rocks, which is incredibly awful losing momentum so easily to the most common Scarfer in the tier. Even Gliscor comes in completely safely.Compared to other fast frail mons in the tier, it has nothing significant to capitalise on being walled, unless you count Toxic, which is by no means a worthy niche, or anything else notable other than Thousand Arrows. Ash-Greninja forces opponents not to sac, otherwise giving Ash Gren, meaning it has plenty of opportunity to Spike up, which in turn allows it to beat its own checks, freeing up team support. Koko provides both terrain and excellent momentum maker for the team, and even has defensive utility with Shuca and its typing, allowing it to switch into TornT near freely. Lopunny both hits harder, and is much harder to switch into with its Stab combinations. Protean is even harder to switch in to, while also providing spikes... and I can keep going.Also Zydog doesnt pressure Steel types. It forces them out yes. But they are not pressured. Pressuring a mon means reducing turns they can do stuff. Heatran pressures select Grass types, as it can often come in near free, limiting the turns the opponent can do stuff. Diancie and Lele can pressure Steel types as they can often force them in with its stabs, and Diancie can weaken with Earth Power or Hp Fire, while Lele can attempt to brute force with Specs. Zydog does neither of these. It can't switch in safely to any Steel type bar Skarm, which can stay in anyway to Counter, and it does not force any Steel types in, bar M.Scizor, and perhaps Ferrothorn on certain teams, and Zydog cant brute force M.Scizor without hax. Even after small chip, it can't revenge M.Mawile, as it'd be in range of Sucker Punch. Zydog pressures Ground and Grass types like Landorus and Tangrowth, as these will be forced in, and you can chip and Toxic them in turn."if hazards did get up"He had a M.Sableye vs hazard Ferrothorn. Hazards were never going up."Zygarde wouldn't have been on a timer and would continuously applied pressure"If the man didn't sac his 3 best Zydog checks within the first 8 turns. He had a Quagsire, which didn't care about anything but Toxic, he had a Chansey which didnt care about anything, and then he had a Clefable, which didnt care about anything but Iron Tail. Even if you did manage to somehow Toxic the Quag, he'd have many oppotunities to Heal Bell. And 16 Thousand Arrows were by no means pressuring this stall, unless you mean wasting, at most, 16 out of 48 Recovers/Wish's/Soft Boileds between the 3.I'm going to be incredibly blunt here, but your Replays are awful. First game the man literally sacced everything important within the first 8 turns. Second replay, the guy refused to go to his Slowbro vs Zydog for some reason, as Slowbro literally walls it infinitely, and doesnt even need to recover after due to regenertor + the pitiful damage Zydog is doing.252 Atk Choice Band Zygarde-10% Thousand Arrows vs. 248 HP / 96+ Def Slowbro: 141-166 (35.8 - 42.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKOand the third replay was probably your only decent one, showing how offence like rain has little to check Zygarde, though why the guy sacced his Pelipper and not go Kartana or TornT is beyond me. I'm not trying to be mean with this, but 1500s is at most the very bottom of mid ladder, but probably low ladder with the state ladders in at the moment. I've been called out for posting bad replays here in the past and rightfully so, replays are especially important when nomming to show whats being said is not just mere speculation, and actually works in practice against competent opponents with good teams. With your replays, all you've shown is two games where the opponent wanted you to win, and a good mu vs Rain. While high ladder isn't necessary, its better as its more likely your opponent is competent and has a good team. If you can't be bothered to grind for better replays, then don't post at all, as people will pick up on it, only hurting your argument.As stated correctly, Zydogs main niche is Thousand Arrows being hard to switch in to, as Hyper Offence completely struggles, and certain BO using Bulu and Ferrothorn can become free real estate for TA after sniping Bulu with Iron Tail or it can comfortable chunk Ferrothorn. Also mentioned, mons like Zapdos and Rotom-W can't safely switch in and Scarf Lando switch in once, which are the usual checks for Grounds along with Grass types. However even then Zydog is a mainly MU pick, as any BO with Scizor, Tang immediatly shutdown Zydog, and others naturally carry other ways of check Zydog as well, such as Mons like Slowbro Clef, M.Latias, Reuni etc, as well as relying on sniping Bulu with Iron Tail already puts it at a major set back. Even TornT is a good switch, as bulky variants don't die after Rocks and can threaten with Knock to completely cripple Zydog, or Hurricane pick off after chip, with its frailness letting it down once again. So I personally don't believe it should be ranked. However the people to truly ask are the people who brought it to Wcop recently, I'm not sure if it is a meme pick, or I'm underselling its niche.I probably came off a little to blunt with this, my bad. Don't mean for any hard feelings.