dacoinminster



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Rational Exuberance







LegendaryActivity: 1260Merit: 1024Rational Exuberance Re: MasterCoin: New Protocol Layer Starting From The Exodus Address October 28, 2013, 11:59:23 PM #1567



Quote

Quote J.R.



The Mastercoin project is making awesome progress. Its everything I was hoping the project could be.



I'm just curious. Now that you have $4,000,000 in MSC value (just in the first 60 days), how is the convincing of the wife coming along?



Any light on the horizon of her being convinced its something you should spend more of your working hours on?



Thanks for all your work so far and great even handed leadership of the effort.



Talk with you soon.



Best Regards,



David A. Johnston

Yeah, she knows that we now have a lot more of that crazy theoretical money



I really feel that the MSC price has a long way to go, and regardless of the price I doubt I will sell any at all before the new tax year starts, as I'd rather not have to deal with the tax implications any sooner than necessary. I'm more optimistic about future MSC values than even the wildest speculations I have seen (mostly based on my belief that the escrow funds will lock up most of the MSC float someday), but if we see another 10x of growth, I'd be able to quit my job after selling about 1% of my MSC, which would be pretty hard to resist.



I don't know how soon any of that might happen, but for now I'm not doing anything hasty . . .



Thanks!

On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 2:12 PM, David Johnston wrote:Yeah, she knows that we now have a lot more of that crazy theoretical moneyI really feel that the MSC price has a long way to go, and regardless of the price I doubt I will sell any at all before the new tax year starts, as I'd rather not have to deal with the tax implications any sooner than necessary. I'm more optimistic about future MSC values than even the wildest speculations I have seen (mostly based on my belief that the escrow funds will lock up most of the MSC float someday), but if we see another 10x of growth, I'd be able to quit my job after selling about 1% of my MSC, which would be pretty hard to resist.I don't know how soon any of that might happen, but for now I'm not doing anything hasty . . .Thanks! In order to avoid any accusations of giving people insider information on my plans for my own MSC, I'm posting this email between myself and David Johnston (WARNING: the following quote is heavily speculative! I'm NOT offering anyone investment advice - I just don't want to give unfair access to one person about my tentative plans)

Check out my attempt at

I have seen I wrote The Second Bitcoin Whitepaper Check out my attempt at using memes to explain bitcoin I have seen bitcoin's dystopian future

really



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MemberActivity: 83Merit: 10 Re: MasterCoin: New Protocol Layer Starting From The Exodus Address October 29, 2013, 01:47:43 AM #1569 Quote from: dacoinminster on October 28, 2013, 08:13:43 PM



Quote Hi David, J.R, Ron, Sam and Lee:



The MasterCoin has been very hot topic recently in China.



Please allow me introduce Mr. really Lee to you guys.



Really has translated the Mastercoin's white paper into Chinese version, he is running a Mastercoin community via QQ group with 65 members now. (Chines skype)



He told me that there are some Chinese are willing to purchase the Mastercoins, but they have no idea how to buy from second market, and they do not know

how to involve in the project development.....



IMHO: That will be great if you guys invite some Chinese into your group/foundation, help promote and protect Mastercoin project in China.



Anything I could be in assistance, please let me.



Any comments?



Cheers,



Bo

My response:



Quote



I've posted a copy of this email in our project thread:



We're happy to support our Chinese friends getting involved with MasterCoin, although we don't have any websites or services in Chinese yet. That might be a good starting point for someone who wants to get involved, especially if they speak enough English to work with our developers making English sites. Note that someone who creates such a site will probably be eligible for some payment from our coding contest (



Thanks!



-J.R. Hi Lee!I've posted a copy of this email in our project thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=265488.msg3429668#msg3429668 We're happy to support our Chinese friends getting involved with MasterCoin, although we don't have any websites or services in Chinese yet. That might be a good starting point for someone who wants to get involved, especially if they speak enough English to work with our developers making English sites. Note that someone who creates such a site will probably be eligible for some payment from our coding contest ( https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=292628.240 ). The potential Chinese buyers may want to pool their money and choose an English-speaking representative to make the purchase on their behalf on the ad-hoc exchange MaxMint is running ( https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=287145.0 ), then distribute the coins purchased to the people who contributed. Otherwise, they can use the distributed exchange when that is ready.Thanks!-J.R. Anybody interested in helping our chinese friends buy MSC and/or get involved in other ways?My response:

Hi David, J.R, Ron, Sam and Lee:



I am the guy who has translated the Mastercoin's white paper into Chinese version.With the help of changjia



Miner and I have done some work as the link between the followers of MSC in east and west .I think we will do it better in the future.If we both get a seat in MSC board that will be great.



Tachikoma's big news of the first distributed Mastercoin to Bitcoin transaction,that is amazing! P2P trading platform has been rising now.



Many thanks to Bo Shen.



Cheers,



Really



Hi David, J.R, Ron, Sam and Lee:I am the guy who has translated the Mastercoin's white paper into Chinese version.With the help of changjia http://bitcoinmagazine.com/7760/a-brief-discussion-on-the-mechanism-design-of-bitcoin/ ,we have made a chinese Mastercoin Special discussion area in 8btc.com http://8btc.com/forum-69-1.html . I think 8btc.com will be a good Media platform of Mastercoin in china.Miner and I have done some work as the link between the followers of MSC in east and west .I think we will do it better in the future.If we both get a seat in MSC board that will be great.Tachikoma's big news of the first distributed Mastercoin to Bitcoin transaction,that is amazing! P2P trading platform has been rising now.Many thanks to Bo Shen.Cheers,Really 巴比特成员Really&新浪微博--真聊比特币

1nyfcL8dKUnpb1bYxQN74rXLBTDcKhjK2 1nyfcL8dKUnpb1bYxQN74rXLBTDcKhjK2

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Hero MemberActivity: 882Merit: 1000 Re: MasterCoin: New Protocol Layer Starting From The Exodus Address October 29, 2013, 02:48:00 AM #1570 Quote from: dacoinminster on October 28, 2013, 11:59:23 PM



Quote

Quote J.R.



The Mastercoin project is making awesome progress. Its everything I was hoping the project could be.



I'm just curious. Now that you have $4,000,000 in MSC value (just in the first 60 days), how is the convincing of the wife coming along?



Any light on the horizon of her being convinced its something you should spend more of your working hours on?



Thanks for all your work so far and great even handed leadership of the effort.



Talk with you soon.



Best Regards,



David A. Johnston

Yeah, she knows that we now have a lot more of that crazy theoretical money



I really feel that the MSC price has a long way to go, and regardless of the price I doubt I will sell any at all before the new tax year starts, as I'd rather not have to deal with the tax implications any sooner than necessary. I'm more optimistic about future MSC values than even the wildest speculations I have seen (mostly based on my belief that the escrow funds will lock up most of the MSC float someday), but if we see another 10x of growth, I'd be able to quit my job after selling about 1% of my MSC, which would be pretty hard to resist.



I don't know how soon any of that might happen, but for now I'm not doing anything hasty . . .



Thanks!

On Mon, Oct 28, 2013 at 2:12 PM, David Johnston wrote:Yeah, she knows that we now have a lot more of that crazy theoretical moneyI really feel that the MSC price has a long way to go, and regardless of the price I doubt I will sell any at all before the new tax year starts, as I'd rather not have to deal with the tax implications any sooner than necessary. I'm more optimistic about future MSC values than even the wildest speculations I have seen (mostly based on my belief that the escrow funds will lock up most of the MSC float someday), but if we see another 10x of growth, I'd be able to quit my job after selling about 1% of my MSC, which would be pretty hard to resist.I don't know how soon any of that might happen, but for now I'm not doing anything hasty . . .Thanks!

In order to avoid any accusations of giving people insider information on my plans for my own MSC, I'm posting this email between myself and David Johnston (WARNING: the following quote is heavily speculative! I'm NOT offering anyone investment advice - I just don't want to give unfair access to one person about my tentative plans)

So JR,, not to be devils advocate but what will that mean for the value of MSC when you sell 1% ? So JR,, not to be devils advocate but what will that mean for the value of MSC when you sell 1% ?

Luckybit



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Hero MemberActivity: 714Merit: 500 Re: MasterCoin: New Protocol Layer Starting From The Exodus Address October 29, 2013, 03:42:04 AM #1572 Quote from: vokain on October 29, 2013, 03:02:25 AM Quote from: JohnnyBTCSeed on October 29, 2013, 02:48:00 AM So JR,, not to be devils advocate but what will that mean for the value of MSC when you sell 1% ?



It should mean a positive pressure on distribution which in the long term should increase MSC's value. It's up to the market whether or not it wants to buy the coins, is it not? And I do wish to see how far Mastercoin can go with JR on full time...

It should mean a positive pressure on distribution which in the long term should increase MSC's value. It's up to the market whether or not it wants to buy the coins, is it not? And I do wish to see how far Mastercoin can go with JR on full time...



I don't think it will matter if he sells 1% if the demand far exceeds the supply. Also it does make a difference how he sells it and whether or not he dumps it all at once or sells it in a very organized smart way.



If for instance he sells MSC for cash then it wont affect the BTC to MSC exchange rate very much because he'd be selling it to a completely different demographic.



For example, JR could start up a regulated exchange or wait until something like Coinbase comes around to MSC and then sell to Coinbase (they have to get their MSC from somewhere right?). He could sell a little bit at a time so that the price doesn't change and do it quietly. He could for instance sell only when demand far exceeds the supply and only after it reaches the level of maturity where if there is plenty of people trying to buy it.



As long as he doesn't sell before the community grasps the value of what the protocol is then it wont matter in my opinion if he does sell even if its more than 1%. At some point Mastercoin will be in so much demand, far more demand than we see with Bitcoin that there will be a need to match that demand with supply and he's the guy who has the supply.



That is how I see it too vokain. If he sells that is actually good for the protocol. What matters is how he goes about selling it and whether it's dumped all at once or done intelligently over a long enough period.I don't think it will matter if he sells 1% if the demand far exceeds the supply. Also it does make a difference how he sells it and whether or not he dumps it all at once or sells it in a very organized smart way.If for instance he sells MSC for cash then it wont affect the BTC to MSC exchange rate very much because he'd be selling it to a completely different demographic.For example, JR could start up a regulated exchange or wait until something like Coinbase comes around to MSC and then sell to Coinbase (they have to get their MSC from somewhere right?). He could sell a little bit at a time so that the price doesn't change and do it quietly. He could for instance sell only when demand far exceeds the supply and only after it reaches the level of maturity where if there is plenty of people trying to buy it.As long as he doesn't sell before the community grasps the value of what the protocol is then it wont matter in my opinion if he does sell even if its more than 1%. At some point Mastercoin will be in so much demand, far more demand than we see with Bitcoin that there will be a need to match that demand with supply and he's the guy who has the supply.

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LegendaryActivity: 1204Merit: 1001Gresham's Lawyer Re: MasterCoin: New Protocol Layer Starting From The Exodus Address October 29, 2013, 04:08:56 AM #1574 Quote from: Luckybit on October 29, 2013, 03:42:04 AM Quote from: vokain on October 29, 2013, 03:02:25 AM Quote from: JohnnyBTCSeed on October 29, 2013, 02:48:00 AM So JR,, not to be devils advocate but what will that mean for the value of MSC when you sell 1% ?



It should mean a positive pressure on distribution which in the long term should increase MSC's value. It's up to the market whether or not it wants to buy the coins, is it not? And I do wish to see how far Mastercoin can go with JR on full time...

It should mean a positive pressure on distribution which in the long term should increase MSC's value. It's up to the market whether or not it wants to buy the coins, is it not? And I do wish to see how far Mastercoin can go with JR on full time...



I don't think it will matter if he sells 1% if the demand far exceeds the supply. Also it does make a difference how he sells it and whether or not he dumps it all at once or sells it in a very organized smart way.



If for instance he sells MSC for cash then it wont affect the BTC to MSC exchange rate very much because he'd be selling it to a completely different demographic.



For example, JR could start up a regulated exchange or wait until something like Coinbase comes around to MSC and then sell to Coinbase (they have to get their MSC from somewhere right?). He could sell a little bit at a time so that the price doesn't change and do it quietly. He could for instance sell only when demand far exceeds the supply and only after it reaches the level of maturity where if there is plenty of people trying to buy it.



As long as he doesn't sell before the community grasps the value of what the protocol is then it wont matter in my opinion if he does sell even if its more than 1%. At some point Mastercoin will be in so much demand, far more demand than we see with Bitcoin that there will be a need to match that demand with supply and he's the guy who has the supply.

That is how I see it too vokain. If he sells that is actually good for the protocol. What matters is how he goes about selling it and whether it's dumped all at once or done intelligently over a long enough period.I don't think it will matter if he sells 1% if the demand far exceeds the supply. Also it does make a difference how he sells it and whether or not he dumps it all at once or sells it in a very organized smart way.If for instance he sells MSC for cash then it wont affect the BTC to MSC exchange rate very much because he'd be selling it to a completely different demographic.For example, JR could start up a regulated exchange or wait until something like Coinbase comes around to MSC and then sell to Coinbase (they have to get their MSC from somewhere right?). He could sell a little bit at a time so that the price doesn't change and do it quietly. He could for instance sell only when demand far exceeds the supply and only after it reaches the level of maturity where if there is plenty of people trying to buy it.As long as he doesn't sell before the community grasps the value of what the protocol is then it wont matter in my opinion if he does sell even if its more than 1%. At some point Mastercoin will be in so much demand, far more demand than we see with Bitcoin that there will be a need to match that demand with supply and he's the guy who has the supply.

Concern about utility > concern about price.



If he (or anyone) "dumps" >>% to folks that actually are using it, the value will increase. Use it, or lose it. Concern about utility > concern about price.If he (or anyone) "dumps" >>% to folks that actually are using it, the value will increase. Use it, or lose it. FREE MONEY 1 Bitcoin for Silver and Gold NewLibertyDollar.com and now

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Hero MemberActivity: 994Merit: 506 Re: MasterCoin: New Protocol Layer Starting From The Exodus Address October 29, 2013, 04:38:15 AM #1575



(killerstorm replying to dacoinminster about how "thin clients are fundamentally impossible")



Quote Well, I see a problem: MasterCoin transactions are not linked together in a subgraph, so one needs to scan the whole Bitcoin blockchain to interpret them.



This means that thin clients are fundamentally impossible.

You are going to have either full clients (like Bitcoin-Qt) which download whole blockchain (8+ GB of data now).

Or server-trusting client, which undermines the whole point of having cryptocurrency. (If you are into that, just use Open Transactions: low overhead, impressive features.)



We discussed this topic in this mailing list, see discussion with Paul Snow and 'theory of colored coins'/'advanced color states' threads: you have to confine transactions to subgraph to make it friendlier to thin clients.



(It is hard to say whether it is friendly enough, but at least we have a chance to optimize and make trade-offs to make it acceptable... I don't see how it is possible with global messaging model without making it reliant on trusted servers.)



You can implement many MasterCoin features using colored coin model with advanced color states.



Or you can at least confine special transactions to a subgraph, so thin clients will have a chance to exist until MasterCoin transaction volume becomes high...







Quote >The block-chain scanning requirements are a lot lower considering that I only need to scan transactions that reference the Exodus Address,



You need to scan whole blockchain to find all transactions which reference the Exodus Address.



Blockchain is a flat list of transactions, they aren't grouped by address or anything. And you need to process transaction to see which addresses it references.



You might use bloom filter feature to reduce traffic, but then you're at mercy of network nodes you've connected to: they might just 'forget' to send you some transactions, which might be used to rob user.



For example, suppose address XYZ has 100 coins. I will first send 100 coins to address ABC, and later 100 coins to address DEF.



Of course, second transaction is invalid, but if DEF's node haven't seen the first one, it will recognize second as valid...



Thus: unless you scan whole blockchain, you depend on honesty of nodes you've connected to.



>but thin client type solutions are going to be needed eventually.



I don't think there can be a solution if protocol is simply not designed with thin clients in mind.





Has there been any new developments on if it's possible to make it so that Mastercoin doesn't require trust in third parties? Or will the only people who can directly move Mastercoins without trust will have to have the entire blockchain and Mastercoin tools running locally? While reading about Mastercoin and colored coins I came across this:(killerstorm replying to dacoinminster about how "thin clients are fundamentally impossible")Has there been any new developments on if it's possible to make it so that Mastercoin doesn't require trust in third parties? Or will the only people who can directly move Mastercoins without trust will have to have the entire blockchain and Mastercoin tools running locally?