@spladug: everyone, we're in a meeting right now trying to discuss this issue. we understand where you're coming from, but please don't mistake our silence -- we're trying to make sure we present a consistent and logical front.

repeatedly pinging us with obnoxious messages is not in any way helpful.

redtaboo: spladug~ thank you for saying something

GuitarFreak: thank you spladug. looking forward to the outcome of this mess

Triggs: Thanks spladug

redtaboo: to be fair to those that were complete and utter silence in the faace of PI being left up isn't helpfuleither

@spladug: you know that frequently we operate somewhat clandestinely during large shitstorms.

for better or worse

sodypop: I think it's for the worse if nobody is going to at a very minimum remove personal information

@spladug: but that is not the case.

will clarify momentarily.

sodypop: I can't see how the predditor tumblr isn't personal information, but i'll wait to hear the arguments presented.

solidwhetstone: this is the biggest shitstorm in recent memory

well since /r/jailbait really

only that situation was more cut and dry. now we have off-site stuff going

MillenniumFalc0n: I think this is a bigger shitstorm, at least among the mods

ManWithoutModem: Didn't that happen almost exactly a year ago?

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solidwhetstone: sept 30 2011

just a week and a half over a year

Triggs: I think this is bigger too MillenniumFalc0n~ because it includes doxxing

jailbait was just drama cause of the content

solidwhetstone: right

and you have many players

MillenniumFalc0n: Triggs: I think there's a lot more people upset with the admins over this than banning jailbait

solidwhetstone: you have the creepshots guys, you have jezebel, you have srs, you have gawker

redtaboo: I'm not upset with the admins, so much as I am confused.

@chromakode: hey

solidwhetstone: hey chromakode

@kemitche: solidwhetstone: You are correct. Off-site, particularly with journalism/pseudo-journalism (with or without "integrity") is a much less clear line.

@chromakode: I just wanted to say that we've been working pretty much nonstop since yesterday sorting through all this

MillenniumFalc0n: redtaboo: I just disagree

upset might have been the wrong term

solidwhetstone: lay it on us

MillenniumFalc0n: chromakode: we appreciate it. It's just hard, being in the dark

@chromakode: I understand

MillenniumFalc0n: but we also know you run a business, and probably can't reveal too much of the internal discussion

redtaboo: chromakode~ we do realize that, I promise. that predditors tumblr though, we feel should be taken care of. and yeah.. left in the dark is hard

@spladug: for clarification, predditors.tumblr.com has been banned sitewide since the first second we became aware of it.

@chromakode: we're still the same folks who worked day and night for you in the past. we haven't changed

GuitarFreak: awesome

@spladug: obviously, we can't remove it from tumblr, but we don't allow it linked on reddit.

MillenniumFalc0n: Great to hear!

redtaboo: ok, spladug the jezebel article links to it though

@spladug: that's not exactly something we can fix, redtaboo

redtaboo: you can remove that article

MillenniumFalc0n: ...couldn't you ban that specific jezebelle article?

solidwhetstone: is reddit going to be making a public statement any time soon?

@kemitche: would we then have to remove articles that link to the jezebel article?

sodypop: The Jezebel article also contains personal information other than the predditors site, right?

solidwhetstone: either to the members or the public?

@kemitche: and articles that link that articles that link to jezebel?

GuitarFreak: why not just ban the whole site?

ZeroShift: sodypop: Yes

MobileFalc0n: As they are found, yes

You should require srs to remove the article when it is reported at least

@spladug: deleting things that link to bad links is not sustainable. what if it were in a wikipedia article, should we ban that whole domain?

redtaboo: ok, do you see where this gets us though? this puts us in the position of wondering what happens when it's one of us

MobileFalc0n: I think you should require mods to remove links on a case by case basis. For instance, with the jezebelle article which clear links to pi

Most mods are removing it anyways, but you should step in with the few who dont

This is an example of malicious doxxing, designed to incite a witch hunt

@chromakode: redtaboo, we understand. what can we do to help in such a case?

redtaboo: enforce the removing of all PI

ManWithoutModem: start by banning /r/srs and PI

@spladug: redtaboo: we can't control things that aren't on reddit. they could just as easily dox any of us admins too. fundamentally, they will have to face the consequences of their own actions and we can't control that.

solidwhetstone: agreed. ban /r/srs

it threatens reddit

ZeroShift: Second

ManWithoutModem: third

redtaboo: spladug~ your identity is known, and you get paid for your job

GuitarFreak: third

redtaboo: we don't

solidwhetstone: banning srs would send a message. they go unchecked right now.

redtaboo: unless and until I get paid, I need assuarnces that the admins have my back

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@spladug: i understand redtaboo, but i don't understand how we're supposed to prevent people we have no control over from doing shitty stuff.

ManWithoutModem: @admins-read my post on why srs needs to die: http://www.reddit.com/r/modtalk/comments/119fvw/am_i_the_only_one_who_thinks_this_is_an_affront/c6kra2j?context=3

@spladug: fox news could do this, nbc could do this, etc.

sodypop: There's merit in banning SRS from the same viewpoint as how jailbait was banned. JB refused to remove CP and SRS refuses to remove personal information.

redtaboo: spladug~ at least that is journalism (kinda) the tumblr isn't

ManWithoutModem: you could ban the subreddits that these people find homes in

ban the users

things like that

*cough* srs

solidwhetstone: srs is the haven the doxxers go to. it makes sense to ban it

@spladug: sodypop: please report specific cases of personal information being upheld in SRS and we will deal with it.

(modmail)

@kemitche: We don't ever want it to be one of you. But there's a limit to our power, and that limit is "stuff that's on reddit." We can't stop twitter or tumblr or anyone else from linking to jezebel. Pretending it doesn't exist doesn't protect you from having it happen to you

@spladug: thank you kemitche for saying it much better than i was.

redtaboo: spladug~ the tumblr could very well not have correct information. And, while, we have no idea inf PIMA's post about the assault is true, and I don't trust him, we all know that's a real possiblity with this

solidwhetstone: @admins- is banning srs an option? you seem to not be addressing that option

@chromakode: I agree with you redtaboo

@spladug: redtaboo: i completely agree with you too. that's a shitty as hell situation. but as kemitche said, that tumblr could be linked on twitter or facebook and there's jack shit we can do about it.

redtaboo: thanks, chromakode . I really do get you guys are in a hard position here

@spladug: blocking it on reddit won't help and isn't sustainable

ZeroShift: http://www.reddit.com/r/ShitRedditSays/comments/119q8v/project_panda_jezebel_runs_another_story_on/ <== The jezebel article contains dox, and an SRS mod outright stated they would not remove it

ManWithoutModem: Why has /r/srs not been banned when they have specifically stated that their goal is to take down reddit?

sodypop: spladug, every link from the jezebel article contains personal information other than the predditor link.

ManWithoutModem: >Our prime directive is that we will not intervene unless something attacks the structural integrity of the greater reddit community.

^lol

sodypop: http://img.gawkerassets.com/img/181hhoenjw7pppng/original.png

that image is on the article

ZeroShift: And SRS refuses to remove their link to it

solidwhetstone: @admins- is banning srs an option? you seem to not be addressing that option

MobileFalc0n: In irc an AA said they would not condemn nor remove the dox

ManWithoutModem: @admins- is banning srs an option? you seem to not be addressing that option

ZeroShift: Yet it's against the tos to do so

MobileFalc0n: Solidwhetstone: even if it is, I feel like it's not something they're going to discuss in an irc channel

solidwhetstone: @mobilefalc0n i don't care if they give me some bullshit political answer- even a nice 'we're considering all options' would be nice

ZeroShift: ^

@chromakode: of course we're considering all options, silly :P

ManWithoutModem: So admins, would you say that SRS has not attacked the structural integrity of the greater reddit community?

ZeroShift: I'm all for policital banter

@chromakode: the reason we're not discussing SRS is because you are completely derailing this discussion with it.

we are trying to address your very real concerns about being doxed and your PI on reddit

they are separate issues

solidwhetstone: i think we are unified in feeling like SRS is threatening the structural integrity

@cupcake1713: +1

(to chromakode)

redtaboo: spladug~ thank you, I get that. But we (and all mods) are wiling to watch for that stuff too. THat's what we do, we help with that.

yes, cupcake1713 +1 to chromakode there

ManWithoutModem: They aren't separate issues when SRS are the people doing the doxxing. :P

@cupcake1713: they are separate issues, ManWithoutModem

@spladug: redtaboo: but reddit is not jezebel's only traffic source. the content will still be up. if you're against them doxxing, tell THEM.

redtaboo: I agree everyone, let's keep this about the PI for now, please

spladug~ I have

@spladug: perfect

@cupcake1713: yeah, i guess a good thing to say here is this: for any content not hosted on reddit, contact those publications DIRECTLY

redtaboo: also, I think our stand to block gawker traffic sends a clear message

cupcake1713~ ManWithoutModem got the tumblr link temporily removed

@kemitche: redtaboo: From a personal standpoint, I have nothing against a subreddit deciding that certain domains are not allowed

@spladug: i'm with kemitche on that

ManWithoutModem: So people hosting jailbait are allowed to post links to reddit with no repreccusions?

redtaboo: kemitche~ thanks, a lot of subreddits are doing it

I think there would be a great message if the admins followed suit

@spladug: you sure it wouldn't streisand the whole thing?

@chromakode: isn't that giving gawker what it wants? attention?

MobileFalc0n: Just so we're clear, posting dox is now acceptable as long as it's an off site link?

solidwhetstone: the thing is already streisanded: http://news.yahoo.com/redditors-stand-gawker-protect-child-pornography-145854455.html

redtaboo: to gawker and other media that wish to irresponsibly post that information

@spladug: MobileFalc0n: no, you're oversimplifying. as previously stated, the tumblr was banned from the moment it was first seen.

ZeroShift: Let's not go putting words in people's mouths

ManWithoutModem: Yeah, I was planning on doxxing Paradox on my blog and posting it to reddit. I was just wondering if that was alright.

redtaboo: It would, temporarily, but in the long run it WOULD hurt their traffic

MobileFalc0n: So as long as it's a link nested within another link?

@spladug: MobileFalc0n: is it really that hard to understand that nothing is black and white and there needs to be some case-by-case review?

MobileFalc0n: If I link to my blog, which links to Laurelai ED article, I'm not doxxing Laurelai?

redtaboo: and other media would know that reddit doesn't stand for this

ManWithoutModem: do you mind if I upload jailbait to my blog and post the links to reddit as well?

GodOfAtheism: i keep seeing people blaming srs for the doxxing, but i haven't seen any evidence that they're actually responsibel

MobileFalc0n: Spladug: sorry

Just frustrated

redtaboo: GodOfAtheism~ we're not talking abut srs right now

MobileFalc0n: I'll quit derailing now

redtaboo: please don't muddy the conversation

@kemitche: Links-to-links have to be much more case-by-case.

If your blog uploads JB, you'll likely have repercussions beyond just reddit.

ManWithoutModem: But what if it is legal?

And I'm just hosting it off site.

Reddit wouldn't really seem to have a problem with that.

@kemitche: The internet is a series of links

@cupcake1713: i think i'm having a hard time following your logic, ManWithoutModem... if you're posting something legal then why would we have a problem?

ManWithoutModem: lol

solidwhetstone: @kemitche no it's a series of tubes ;)

@kemitche: and those links form quite a big web

ManWithoutModem: So I have the OK from the admins to post jailbait from my blog?

solidwhetstone: don't forget creep shots

ManWithoutModem: To reddit

redtaboo: ManWithoutModem~ c'mon

@kemitche: so no, we're not going to flat-out ban all things that have a link chain that eventually touches something rule-breaking

@cupcake1713: guys, seriously

redtaboo: we need to try to havea real coonversation here

regardless of my typing skills

sodypop: The jezebel article contains personal information directly in it.

ZeroShift: correct

@kemitche: sodypop: Many actual news articles contain full names

solidwhetstone: so i think we need to define doxxing

sodypop: "including a Redditor she has identified as Jeremy Wayne Lohr,"

ZeroShift: It has a redditor's username, real name and picture

solidwhetstone: because i'm starting to see that maybe the admins and mods have different definitions

ManWithoutModem: Do they contain home addresses, phone numbers, etc?

redtaboo: many news organiztions use real sources, not a tumblr blog

MobileFalc0n: Directly connected to Reddit accounts kemitche?

solidwhetstone: @kemitche does reddit consider doxxing legit if it's off site?

or is doxxing only acknowledged when it's on site?

MobileFalc0n: The jezebelle article definitely violates reddit.com/rules

ManWithoutModem: *crickets*

sodypop: That user is no celebrity or public figure.

@kemitche: If you're going to twist every thing I say, then yes, you'll get crickets.

solidwhetstone: @kemitche- did i twist anything?

i can rephrase my question

@chromakode: a few people have to leave for lunch

sodypop: I feel at this point our conversation is not beingvery constructive.

@kemitche: You're all approaching it from "We don't like this jezebel article and how can I apply the prior admin statements/rules to get it removed"

redtaboo: solidwhetstone~ yeah, kinda... it seems like some of us are trying to trap the admins into saying something instead of listening to them

@chromakode: sodypop, agreed.

redtaboo: sodypop~ agree

@chromakode: we're trying to listen to you, too.

solidwhetstone: i'm not trying to trap...i hope it hasn't seemed like i was

@chromakode: this is complicated *because* it's a nuanced issue

@kemitche: Whereas we have to try to approach it from "What are the general guidelines we can apply or modify to foster the desired community behavior"

So it's very frustrating on our side to have any generalized guidelines we make get thrown back in our face

@chromakode: and without a doubt, we are on your side.

sodypop: The problem I have is that if linking a redditor's real name and picture to their account is allowed, then I don't feel protected with a reasonable amount of anonymity.

I've always viewed anonymity as one of the core values of reddit.

@chromakode: I do too

ManWithoutModem: So when I go to http://reddit.com/rules and see that rule #3 is "Don't post personal information," yet I see personal information that the admins have left up, I along with many others, get worried.

Rswany: is r/defaultmods private?

redtaboo: yes

Rswany: because karmanauts post their was leaked

http://i46.tinypic.com/291z79l.jpg

redtaboo: of course it was

Rswany: and whoever did used tinypic

eww

solidwhetstone: lol

@chromakode- i'm not trying to trap or anything- i just want to get clarification on only one question

@chromakode: yes?

solidwhetstone: does reddit recognize off-site doxxing as doxxing? or does reddit only recognize on-site doxxing?

ManWithoutModem: ^

@chromakode: I don't think that question makes sense

solidwhetstone: ok let me rephrase it

@chromakode: can you please be more specific?

@kemitche: solidwhetstone: you're asking for a black-and-white answer to a very grayscale question.

solidwhetstone: i'm not sure how to reword that lol. i guess what i mean is- if the mods feel like- for example- srs is fostering an environment that encourages off-site doxxing, does reddit consider that?

@chromakode: also, I'd like to turn this question around to you. put yourself in our shoes. being a mod isn't very different from being an admin, particularly in responding to community issues in this respect, as kemitche said, we approach this from wanting to foster safe and constructive interaction on reddit

I thought doxxing was a behavior, not a type of content?

personal information also varies depending on the person

we work really hard at all hours of the night to protect peoples' personal information on reddit

solidwhetstone: right

@chromakode: but how can we better protect people from themselves or the rest of the internet?

@kemitche: The "black" end is: A link to a site that encourages users to look up /compile information on a reddit user and harass them. The "white" end is a respectable news source saying that such a dox happened, but without supplying any links or names or information (but what news source doesn't provide information?)

sodypop: A redditor who is not a public figure or celebrity has their real name, photo, and username posted on a site. The site is then linked on reddit. Is that considered posting personal information?

redtaboo: it is a behavior, for sure, and right now there is a 'this is bad, don't do it' *wink* thing going on with doxxing in certain subreddits

solidwhetstone: ^

ZeroShift: ^^

redtaboo: That is the precise behaviour that should be stomped out

@chromakode: we actively investigate all activity of that kind

you may not see it, because we have to be somewhat quiet about it.

ManWithoutModem: Then why is the jezebelle article still up?

has the article not been investigated enough?

You've had around 18 hours or so.

sodypop: Please, let's not try to assign blame

@chromakode: I'm here because I want to talk to you

ManWithoutModem: I want to talk too

sodypop: Yes, it is frustrating we've been kept in the dark for so long. We also need to keep our heads on straight if we are to discuss this openly.

redtaboo: ^^^^^

@chromakode: when you make me accountable for reddit's actions, it makes it hard for me to actually communicate with you and understand your position, because I'm not wholly responsible for what reddit does

ManWithoutModem: I understand that

solidwhetstone: @chromakode- is there something we as mods can do- and perhaps that dacvak can do now as the new community manager to help us all be more on the same page as soon as shitstorms happen?

like an internal press release sort of thing

@chromakode: I think the best thing we can do is get down to the specific of where you feel that action should be taken, and I'll make sure that we have a chance to discuss that

@kemitche: One key difference to understand is that there is a difference between a call to action (go find information / harass this person) and information that's already out there. Once information has been compiled and posted *somewhere* there's less we can do to limit its spread

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@chromakode: solidwhetstone, I'd love to improve our communication, but please understand that we already keep you in the loop as quickly as we reasonably can

MillenniumFalc0n: kemitche: precedent says that's not the case though. For instance, I know several users have been dhadowbanned for linking to Laurelai's ED article, which is definitely already compiled and posted pi

@kemitche: I'm sure you can all recall a time where you had to remove a popular thread from your subreddit, and immediately saw a "WTF happened to post X?" get popular in your subreddit and/or others

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solidwhetstone: i think there were a lot of concerns that the admins have been pretty silent. just my perception

sodypop: kemitche, personal information doesn't cease being personal just because it becomes publicly available.

@chromakode: solidwhetstone, understood, but this is a particularly hairy issue and we'd really appreciate the benefit of the doubt from you

ZeroShift: sodypop: ^

solidwhetstone: you definitely have the benefit of the doubt from me personally

i was speaking more of my observation

@chromakode: gotcha.

sodypop, agreed, but what are we to do about that?

sodypop, what would you do?

@kemitche: sodypop: right. the goal is to minimize the spread. So should we Streisand it? Is that the most effective way to handle it? These are some of the things we have to consider.

ZeroShift: Fair enough

sodypop: chromakode, I would remove the Jezebel article that contains personal information (real name and photo) that has been linked to a reddit user's account.

@chromakode: actually, there's a pretty good analogy to be taken here

mods have limited ability to prevent people from posting bad stuff in their subreddit, but they can't stop it from propagating outside of their subreddit walls

as admins, we have the ability to remove bad stuff from reddit, but we can't prevent the rest of the internet from doing so

solidwhetstone: that's why i created /r/republicofban :)

@chromakode: as mods, what do you do in a situation like this in your community?

and please keep in mind that this is a nuanced question

MillenniumFalc0n: chromakode: all we're asking you to do is not allow it to be posted on reddit

GuitarFreak: as long as it stays off of reddit, i don't think there would be a problem

sodypop: I remove the personal information.

MillenniumFalc0n: ^

which is what we do in our subs

sodypop: Or the links to personal information on reddit, to be specific.

redtaboo: chromakode~ I approach the other subreddits as a mod, and talk to them.

GuitarFreak: i know there's nothing you can really do about stuff outside of reddit, but keeping it off of reddit is a start

ZeroShift: But in certain cases, some subs refuse to remove link to PI

@chromakode: gotcha

solidwhetstone: @chromakode i think we're all on the same page that nothing can be done about off-site stuff

i _think_

@chromakode: yeah :(

I think kemitche is right on about getting to the point of the personal information rule

we definitely have the streissand effect to contend with here

why do we remove personal info from reddit in the first place?

MillenniumFalc0n: chromakode: isn't most dox linked to on reddit already compiled?

ZeroShift: To protect people's info and identities

redtaboo: to protect users from with hunts IRL

MillenniumFalc0n: ^

redtaboo: *witch

ZeroShift: Some people wish to remain anonymous

@chromakode: right

personally, I remained completely anonymous on the internet until I was 18. I totally get that

MillenniumFalc0n, a significant problem is that reddit can be a great tool for compiling and organizing witchhunts

it's the magnifying glass you can use to focus the sun

sodypop: I don't think the streisand effect should paralyze you from removing content that breaks the rules.

ZeroShift: ^

@chromakode: totally, I understand that

@kemitche: sodypop: the spirit of the rule is to prevent witch hunts and such

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MillenniumFalc0n: chromakode: I'm not trying to derail, I'm just trying to find out how you would apply this. Based on this interpretation of doxxing, it seems like I should no longer remove/report, for instance, people who link to Laurelai's ED article (I use her as an example b/c that is the dox problem I deal with most often)

it's already compiled and posted. It's not new

I still remove it though, b/c it is linking a redditor with real life info

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@chromakode: MillenniumFalc0n, I don't think it would be fair to discuss changes in your action right now. I'm mostly trying to explore the issue with you and help us understand your viewpoint, and for you to understand why we're taking some time to figure out how to respond to this.

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sodypop: Wouldn't you consider the jezebel article as encouraging obvious vigilantism?

ManWithoutModem: question-when will you make a post to the mods and/or a post to the general public

sodypop: Something titled, "How to Shut Down Redditâ€™s CreepShots Once and for All: Name Names"

That's a call for a witch hunt.

@chromakode: ManWithoutModem, I can't personally answer that question, but we'll communicate with you as much as we can

sodypop, I agree

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@kemitche: sodypop: the article would be encouraging vigilante-ism even if it were a description of events without those photos.

ManWithoutModem: agreed sodypop

a_redditor: ooh! admins finally

sodypop: It encourages vigilantism and contains personal information, so isn't that enough to be removed?

@kemitche: And I don't think i'd agree that an article that says "vigilante-ism happened" is against the rules. Much like an article about the jailbait events is not against the rules.

ManWithoutModem: what if the article linked to jailbait, just like the vigilante-ism article links to dox?

do you see what I'm getting at?

@kemitche: That's not a precise comparison

sodypop: We should be careful with anologies to jailbait (yes i made one earlier).

CP, or sexualizing minors is illegal. "Doxxing" isn't illegal

@kemitche: "What If Anderson Cooper showed jailbait" is not a realistic analogy

@chromakode: also keep in mind that the jezebel article is designed to be as dramagenic and gray area as possible

aphoenix: Doxxing isn't illegal, but then again, neither are the Creepshots things.

ManWithoutModem: or........nevermind

@chromakode: so, back in our shoes for a moment

doxing gets posted to an external site

we remove said site

attention-grabbing news sites start to report that doxing happens

what can we do that is constructive then?

@kemitche: it's 1 pm here and I haven't eaten yet. I'm happy to discuss more later, but I do also have a bunch of other stuff I'm supposed to be getting done.

Rswany: Go feast

solidwhetstone: thank you for coming by @kemitche

ManWithoutModem: remove every single thing that discusses the doxxing

redtaboo: kemitche~ thank you, please have some pie for lunch!

MillenniumFalc0n: ^

@chromakode: drama distracts us massively from improving the site because we all care about it

sodypop: The news site doxes a redditor itself, it does not only contain a link to the preddito tumblr, but personal name and photo linked to a reddit user in the article.

@kemitche: redtaboo: I think I will :) solidwhetstone: You're welcome. I'm sorry about the semi-long silence.

ManWithoutModem: I'm going to sleep since I haven't slept in forever, I hope to come back to some good questions and some good answers in like 9 hours

keep it going ladies and gents ;)

@chromakode: sodypop, totally true

ManWithoutModem: and to the admins-thanks for coming out of the woodwork to talk to us

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aphoenix: mods: I think that just saying "we see what's happening - we care - we don't have much we could do" is enough for me.

solidwhetstone: since it seems like things are wrapping up- just a quick thank you to the admins for swinging by. i think we are all on the same page that we all love reddit and don't want it to fall apart.

aphoenix: Personally, I really appreciate that.

@chromakode: rest well ManWithoutModem

of course, solidwhetstone, discussions like this improve reddit too

let's try to keep level headed and not immediately leap to reddit falling apart due to some drama over which posts were removed

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solidwhetstone: well digg has proven that one event can cause a social site to fall apart

sodypop: So, personal information is on the jezebel article directly. It's also a call for a witch hunt. We've agreed on that so far, right?

@chromakode: and we get to prove that we're stronger than that

these sort of issues aren't going to stop happening. we're going to have more gray areas and controversial issues the more the site grows

@cupcake1713: digg fell apart for totally different reasons, solidwhetstone

sodypop: And so I understand this, the reasoning for not removing the ejzebel article is because fear of a streisand effect?

@chromakode: sodypop, yeah, I hear ya

sodypop, I'm not saying that's the reasoning

I want to hear your opinion on whether removing it is constructive to reddit

solidwhetstone: @cupcake- i know- but a big part of what makes reddit successful is moderation. and if the mods lose faith in the system, they will leave. if they leave, the quality will decrease.

sodypop: I feel it is destructive to the trust between reddit user/mod and the admins.

We need a reasonable amount of assurance that if our personal details are spread across reddit, that some action will be taken.

ZeroShift: ^

DEADB33F: probably not constructive, once the removal becomes common knowledge you'll soon have your attention-grabbing news sites starting to report that "reddit admins are actively protecting child pornographers."

MillenniumFalc0n: As someone who has been threatened with doxxing several times already, I'm a little disheartened.

DEADB33F: and other such ridiculous headlines.

MillenniumFalc0n: those headlines already exists

People that hate reddit (SRS) are going to hate reddit no matter what we do

DEADB33F: Yeah, but not that the admins are directly involved.

@chromakode: sodypop, I completely, 100% get that, and feel strongly about that

DEADB33F: Which is totally different.

MillenniumFalc0n: It says "reddit is protecting child pornographers"

definitely implying that the site as a whole is doing it

redtaboo: chromakode~ I get what you guys are saying about it being already offsite and you can't control that

MillenniumFalc0n: I wish there was an easy solution guys, but I appreciate y'all coming out to discuss with us

redtaboo: but, really.. who else but reddit is going to care?

so, if it's not on reddit then the proliferation and possiblity of witch hunt goes way down

@chromakode: MillenniumFalc0n, there'll almost never be an easy solution

MillenniumFalc0n: chromakode: comes with the territory.You shouldn't have let Reddit get so popular :P

redtaboo: And, with that, I don't necessarily mean the post that's up now (though this is why I want it removed)

@chromakode: redtaboo, gotcha

before we debate that, I'd like to say first off that I think what you guys are doing is fantastic and that this is the sort of relationship I'd like to see between the admins and the mods (but with less drama, please)

redtaboo: completely agree with you

sodypop: It's great that we're even having this convo, albeit later than we as mods would have liked.

@chromakode: I totally like to see the mods politely and constructively calling us out when necessary

sodypop: I still am confused at the reason for not removing links to the jezebel article, however.

@chromakode: sodypop, it's unfortunate, but there's not much we can do about that :(

I hear that sodypop

sodypop: chromakode, not to mention awful timing with the Internet 2012 bus tour leaving you short a GM.

@chromakode: totally

GuitarFreak: and on dac's second "official" day too

@cupcake1713: haha sodypop, i was on the bus tour and just got back yesterday

@chromakode: trying to figure out how to discuss that when there's not much I can do about removing or not removing that specific link

@cupcake1713: and came back to this

sodypop: cupcake1713, welcome back :)

redtaboo: ^^^^

@cupcake1713: heh thanks

redtaboo: sorry we jumped on you earlier

@chromakode: yeah seriously guys

if there's one additional thing I'd like to see come out of this, it's figuring out how to approach a similar situation in the future better

not to derail from the discussion we're having right now, though

@cupcake1713: it's okay redtaboo, i understand how confusing/stressful/etc this must have been for everyone

GuitarFreak: it was rather funny that you joined, everyone jumped on you, and you left 2 minutes later

@cupcake1713: :)

@chromakode: so, sodypop, redtaboo: regarding the jezebel article

I agree with you that its title and positioning evokes vigilanteism

and that it contains screenshots from the primary doxing source containing PI

: soupyhands has joined #modtalk

@chromakode: those are objective facts

GuitarFreak: chromakode: a bit off topic, but at some point, would you be willing to discuss SRS with us?

@chromakode: GuitarFreak, I'm don't think I'm the right person to do so,

GuitarFreak: alright

@chromakode: it looks like Dac responded to some comments about it in the recent blog post comment thread

redtaboo: chromakode~ would it be fair to say that the original doxxing source is not a valid source for anything?

@chromakode: redtaboo, that it could be false info, you mean?

redtaboo: yes

@chromakode: totally, this is the internet

redtaboo: okay, knowing all this I can't see what good can come from leaving it up. only bad

@chromakode: the jezebel article?

redtaboo: ys

*yes

@chromakode: and what good would removing it do? prevent more people from seeing that information as a result of reddit?

redtaboo: yes, as I said most of the interest in that is from reddit

@chromakode: I think we can make an argument independent from where the interest is coming from

redtaboo: I'm quite sure many 2xcers have no idea what is going on

aphoenix: chromakode - i follow you. I'm looking at a pros / cons list. I can't really see what removing it has in the "pros" list. Other than sticking to one's guns re: personal information...

redtaboo: Other than sticking to one's guns re: personal information... http://www.reddit.com/r/TwoXChromosomes/comments/11brz4/can_anyone_help_identify_this_bikini_ive_seen_it/ http://www.reddit.com/r/ideasfortheadmins/comments/11bh11/verify_every_account_that_wishes_to_participate/

it would definitely solve 90% of the drama we see

@kemitche: (Which is why I get a bit flustered when people try to compare two instances from a high level, rather than examining the specific contexts involved)