Show caption 1977 and all that: the Clash under the Westway, London. Left to right: Topper Headon, Mick Jones, Paul Simonon and Joe Strummer. Photograph: Adrian Boot/Urbanimage.tv The Clash Clash city rockers – Mick Jones and Paul Simonon recall the glory days The two surviving founder members of the Clash take a break from remixing the retrospective Sound System box set to reminisce about going to the pictures, sharp clothes and rock'n'roll Michael Hann @michaelahann Thu 23 May 2013 18.11 BST Share on Facebook

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The days of London's Burning are long gone. For a start, you can't go "up and down the Westway / in and out the lights" any more, because while the overpass the Clash romanticised is still there, the lights aren't. From the top floor of Damon Albarn's studios in west London, we – Mick Jones, Paul Simonon and I – can see the lamp-posts cut short like a string of London's plane trees cut back to the trunk. The guitarist and bassist are no longer angry young punks, either – instead, they're startlingly well-dressed middle-aged men, Simonon handrolling his cigarettes, and Jones offering non-sequitur asides as if he's walked off the set of some half-forgotten old radio comedy.

They are here to promote a pair of compilations that will emerge at the summer's end. Sound System is a box set, containing the first five Clash albums remastered, plus a plethora of rarities in both audio and visual form, along with the usual assortment of bright shiny trinkets. The Clash Hits Back is a two-CD best-of, sequenced to copy the setlist from a show at the Brixton Fair Deal – now the Academy – in July 1982. That a new Clash compilation and box set – the sixth and the third, respectively – can still generate excitement is testimony to both the affection in which the band are held, and the sense that, for all the decades that have passed since their demise, no British rock'n'roll band since has challenged them for ambition, scope and pure excitement.

Why was the Brixton show so significant that you copied the setlist for The Clash Hits Back?

Mick Jones: I don't know!

Paul Simonon: We're from the Brixton area, and I used to go there – it used to be called the Brixton Astoria – for Saturday-morning pictures. It's actually where I saw my first ever pop show. We all turned up as 10-year-olds, and they said: "Right, boys and girls, we've got a special surprise for you – we're not going to show you a film!" So everyone was "Booooo." "No, we've got a special surprise – we have Sandie Shaw!" And Sandie Shaw came on, and she was going on about not having any shoes. So we had an hour set from her, and that was my first pop concert.

MJ: We used to bunk in, which was quite difficult. In those days, on a Saturday night, it would be thousands of people – as many people as you get to a gig at the Academy. You'd have that but the whole place would be packed – before video, before anything. That was the social hub. On weekdays and in holidays, one of us would shin up a drainpipe and go through the open window to the loos, right, and then come down and open the door and we'd all pile in. It would generally be an X.

PS: I wanted to see Hell's Angels '69, but they said: "No mate, you're too young."

MJ: And I was also in the ABC Minors up the road at the Fridge. I was in a twist competition!

PS: I used to go to the ABC as well and occasionally I went to the Classic.

MJ: The Classic! The fleapit, which is now the Ritzy. They used to show two movies, but also you'd come when the doors opened about 12.45, and then you could sit there all the way through till the evening and it was time to go home. They'd usually be dubbed into English …

PS: From Italian.

MJ: … but I didn't notice the out-of-syncness at the time.

PS: I remember at the ABC they brought someone in from the audience to hold this torch and whoever this torch landed on got a free ice-cream. They were going round the room and suddenly said: "Oi, mate, you've won a free ice-cream" – it had landed on me. So I got a free ice-cream, which was not comfortable – 'cos you're enjoying free ice-cream and everyone else is looking at you, with no ice-cream.

How much did your setlists vary from show to show?

MJ: Quite considerably. Obviously there were some numbers that always had to be in there. Joe [Strummer] actually physically did the list, but we all made our suggestions.

PS: One thing that crossed my mind the other day was that it was probably quite a challenge for Joe, trying to remember the lyrics for a song that maybe we hadn't played for a while. Now I understand why before we went on he used to be mumbling in the corner – obviously he'd be going over the lyrics of a song that we'd just reintroduced. It's about building up the show, reaching a natural plateau, then taking it on. But sometimes things would be thrown in because of the circumstances of what was happening within the gig. If there was a riot going on, then obvoiously we're going into Armagideon Time.

How had you changed as a live band between 1976 and 1982?

PS: For myself, I'd become musically more capable. I could take off the notes that were painted on the neck of my guitar. But then I did make a mistake in being really confident: I went for one of those jazz basses that didn't have frets …

MJ: Your thumb was growing so big. He hit his thumb with a hammer! It was the only way he could play!

PS: It didn't have any frets. And when it goes really dark, and you can't quite hear what you're playing, it suddenly sounds like you're drunk. So I said: "You know what? I think I'll have the frets put back on." I got a bit carried away. I thought I was getting quite good, but I got a big slap in the face.

You were always very dynamic onstage – was that rehearsed or spontaneous?

PS: There were certainly aspects – if he's gonna run across stage like that, then I'm gonna run across this way. And if he can jump that high, then I'm gonna jump this high! There was competition with each other on stage, too.

MJ: As we became more pompous.

PS: Pompous? When? What, with my crown and my sceptre? Yeah, I remember that. And the ermine furs on your combat outfit.

MJ: We didn't really choreograph it though. It just developed.

But you must have given some of your moves some thought: like the three of you walking up to the mics on I Fought the Law, the single most thrilling sight in guitar music …

MJ: Oh yeah …

PS: That's when the backing vocals are coming in, so you're standing around playing and then – Oh it's time for the backing vocals – and everyone leans in.

MJ: We got good at looking at what's going on out of the corner of your eye.

PS: You knew what everybody else was doing.

MJ: There was great chemistry between us, and we was kind of mindreading.

PS: But it became extra important because [the pair stand up to assume their onstage positions, leaving a space in the middle where Strummer would be] Mick would be there, I would be here and Joe would be there, and we'd have leads from our guitars. So I know if I run over this way, and Mick goes over this way [the two jog past each other, miming carrying their instruments], I've got to remember that when I come back I've got to go through the front of him.

MJ: Otherwise it's like this [mimes pulling apart a tangle of leads]. All a tangle. The bits you don't see is us scrabbling around the stage trying to unravel our leads

PS: Sometimes you'd get a Gordian knot of guitar cables and we couldn't get any closer to the mic 'cos we were all constricted.

Did you nick stage moves from anyone?

PS: Hearing that Wilko was very unwell made me think a lot about him. I remember the first Clash album cover, I'm almost wearing Wilko's clothes. I used to wear a jacket similar to this [he's wearing a tailored midnight blue jacket] with that outfit, and so, yeah, Wilko was a big influence. And in other ways so was Pete Townshend because he jumped around. He made the show look exciting. Those were the main two.

MJ: It was Keith Richards for me, and Johnny Thunders. And then me.

Did you have to rethink your music and your objectives after the initial explosion of punk burned itself out?

PS: I remember having a conversation with Joe where we were going: "What are we going to sing about now?" That was really an issue, because we'd just signed the deal with the record company. We thought: "Great! We've got a hundred grand! Let's buy a club!" Not realising that this money is just on loan, really. It's not yours to keep.

MJ: We always wanted to buy a club. Always. That's what we would say, wasn't it? Buy a club – that would be what you'd do when you had some money.

Would you have wanted to be lumbered with a disaster like the Haçienda, though?

MJ: How can you say the Haçienda went wrong? Wow!

Well, the members of New Order have spent 20 years moaning about how broke it left them …

MJ: Sometimes you have to take that leap of faith. And buy a club!

How deliberate was the way the Clash changed from album to album, or was it more a reflection of your changing listening habits?

PS: In some ways we didn't think: "Oh, this had to be different". It journeyed that way. It just evolved.

MJ: You should never ever make the same record twice. Do something different every time – that's a given. What it is, is where you are at that time – it reflects where you're at. A record tells you a lot about the artist's life, but also a lot about your own life – that's what I got out of the records I listened to. They told me how I might be able to live my life. You've got to reach out in every direction and embrace everything,

PS: With cross-pollination between the four of us, our influences came out more and more.

MJ: That's what I'm trying to say – the chemistry of the four us is so unique. But also each person is the sum of their experiences when they play music. You're expressing yourself in a way that is not quantifiable.

The way the Clash was presented – in clothes, in posters, in images – was very important, wasn't it?

PS: Totally. You could put it down to a very basic thing [Clash manager] Bernie Rhodes said to me once. He said: "Why is an audience going to listen to what you've got to say if they're better dressed than you?" So if you think about that in the bigger picture, everything's important because it reflects what you're about as a band. If you say: "I don't care about the posters, I just do the music," you're underselling yourself. It's all important. A lot of the looks were down to financial problems. Everyone in those days wore flares and had long hair. So if you went into secondhand stores, there'd be so many straight-legged trousers because everyone wanted flares. That instantly set you apart from everybody else. And also there was another place called Laurence Corner …

MJ: Selling army surplus …

PS: … and you could dress it up accordingly. Somebody would wear one thing, and someone else would think: "That's good." For example, Johnny Thunders came over. We always wore Dr Martens, but me and Joe saw his boots and said: "Wow, where d'you get those boots from?" And he said: "There's place called Hudson's in New York." So when we got to New York, we went straight to the shop and bought these motorcycle boots like these [Simonon holds up leg to show he still wears them], which we wore all the time, and people started calling them "Clash boots". And when we left Great Britain and started touring other places in the world, we'd pick up stuff. Like in America there was a surplus of 50s clothing that was next to nothing – nobody wanted it, in the same way as the straight-legged trousers. So we'd buy it and bring it back, and it was like: "Wow – this is like what Gene Vincent would wear." And then it became mixed in with what we had.

MJ: You could get some really cool stuff in thrift stores in the US. Even guitars. Good guitars.

PS: The other thing that was important was that it wasn't just something you wore onstage. You wore it offstage, too. What was really good about the beginning of the whole punk thing is you would leave London and go to Teesside or anywhere up north and there'd be kids turning up who'd got their shirt and cut the sleeves off or splattered it with paint and done something themselves – it was DIY, which was really important.

MJ: It was good to see how things built up in those days. The first time you'd play at a place, there'd be a few punks. The next time, there'd be a few more. And the next time, you couldn't get in. There was a curiosity [from new fans] – "Not sure what this is." Then they'd see what it was and they'd do their version of it. You could see it grow in that way. It was fantastic. I didn't see it at the time – I was just following the music – but I see it now, in retrospect.

PS: It's important the clothing thing, in lots of ways.

MJ: It was a statement.

What was it like to revisit the old music to remaster it for the Sound System box set?

MJ: Remastering's a really amazing thing. That was the musical point of it all. Because there's so much more there that you wouldn't have heard before, it was like discovering stuff, because the advances in mastering are immense since the last time it was remastered, in the 90s.

PS: It's interesting about the mastering because I heard Safe European Home, and it's got a whole guitar part I never heard before. It's buried …

MJ: I've probably never heard it! It's probably some session musician, when I was asleep! It's tunes you're familiar with, but you're hearing stuff you never heard before. So the concept of the whole thing is: best box set ever.

Punk seems to have been more of a vehicle for you – a way to get where you wanted – rather than a destination. Is that fair?

PS: We were only punk in so far as that was what we were called. We were essentially a rock'n'roll band.

MJ: No, we were a punk group – the idea of it …

PS: … was the nature of what we did in the beginning.

MJ: We come from punk … De La Punk!

What would have happened to the Clash had you been able to carry on? Would you have kept your dignity, or become a musical pantomime?

MJ: You what? Only if I get the front of the horse! Who gets the back? There'd be three people fighting in the front of the horse!

PS: We'd all have one horse each, with a saggy bit behind us. Obviously at some point we'd grown up to a certain point …

MJ: Like Thumbelina! We've grown up now.

PS: … and then our complexities and differences of opinion meant it petered out. Once we'd kicked Mick out. And Topper [Headon, the drummer].

MJ [laughing hard]: There wasn't anybody left! That's why!

PS: Somebody said: "I'll give you a million pound each to reform," and we said no. It got so ridiculous, and money wasn't even going to be a consideration anyway. We came and did what we did and now let's move on. Say Joe was still around, I still think don't think it would have happened.

The final Clash album – 1985's Cut the Crap, with no Jones or Headon – has been expunged from history. Why?

PS: There were a lot of good songs on it, but what's disappointing is that 'cos me and Mick used to bicker in the studio …

MJ: That was a good thing!

PS: It was a good thing. And when we came to doing Cut the Crap, I said to Joe: "D'you know what? I'm going to step back and let you make the record, so I'm not this bickering voice." And I stood back and let him take control. What I didn't know, and found out later, is that Bernie took control and Joe walked away from it as well. So in the end it became Bernie's record. There are some great songs on it, but they're smothered in unnecessaries that made it really cloudy. It could have been a great record.

MJ: It's not the Clash. The Clash is the three of us, and the two drummers.

At least you managed to repair your friendships quickly after Mick was sacked.

MJ: Oh, very soon. That was the amazing thing. There was only a short time when we weren't really talking to each other.

PS: When me and Joe came and got involved in your video [for the 1985 single The Medicine Show by Jones's post-Clash group Big Audio Dynamite], in some ways that was a visual statement saying: "We're friends. We're OK."

Was the Gorillaz Plastic Beach tour in 2010 the first time you'd played together onstage since the Clash?

PS: More or less. We did play at a party once. Damon asked me: "Do you think Mick would be up for coming on tour." "I'll ask him." It was a celebration of a great record, and a great idea in bringing all these musicians together to go out on this tour together. I think we had seven tour buses, there was so many people.

MJ: I did enjoy it. Getting to visit some new places and revisit some old ones. The great thing about doing that is that the more people are onstage, the less you have to do. My job was basically meet-and-greeter for my section of the stage, 'cos that was the side of the stage where people came on. So I met and greeted the people and escorted them to the centre of the stage, and it was very nice. Paul was on the other side and we were like wingmen. It was very nice to be able to sit on top of an orchestra and just underpin certain things. It was a beautiful experience for me. I was never big on rehearsals before that. But Damon's very big on them, and now I realise the benefit, which I didn't realise before. Since then, I've been really keen on: the more you do, the better you get. Before, I just used to wing it.

PS: Not in the Clash you didn't! We was rehearsing all the bloody time!

MJ: But then I dropped off in the intervening years. I thought: "Oh, I don't have to practise because now I know what I want to do in my head I can just do it." But that was obviously a misjudgment and now I'm back on it. I'd forgotten how important rehearsals are.

PS: Also it was a very structured set-up in some ways, Gorillaz. There's a lot of freedom within it, but there's a screen behind you that the drummer has to be in sync with. But we played in LA, at a dress rehearsal for fans, and Bobby Womack started singing the verse again when he should have been singing the chorus, and I thought, you always follow the singer to back him up, and suddenly I was out of sync with the whole band. Fortunately, it was only for one song, but I learned: "I'm just gonna stick with the regime."

Finally, any regrets about the Clash – missed opportunities, anything like that?

MJ: Can I just sound like Edith Piaf?

PS: Are you going to say it in French? I have no regrets. I'm the kind of person who looks forward, to what I'm doing.

And what are you doing?

Both, simultaneously, before collapsing in gales of laughter: Working on the box set!