READER COMMENTS ON

"CLINT CURTIS INVESTIGATOR'S 'SUICIDE' CASE REOPENED BY GEORGIA POLICE!"

(787 Responses so far...)





COMMENT #1 [Permalink]

... Fran said on 3/8/2005 @ 11:59 am PT...





Great work. By all accounts, this is still a developing story. Saddly, we cannot trust our own law enforcement agencies. That appears to be true at all levels of the goverment. The truth in the end will come out. This country was not founded on a lie but the truth. I am positive that someone will speak up for Mr. Lemme so that his family can have closure. I know that I would want that for myself. God's speed to you Brad.

COMMENT #2 [Permalink]

... Catherine said on 3/8/2005 @ 12:18 pm PT...





Keep at it, honey. People are being hurt and they need justice. Thank you.

COMMENT #3 [Permalink]

... lewis said on 3/8/2005 @ 12:22 pm PT...





great reporting, brad. my only question is, where does it go from here? it seems like all the people who now need to start answering some tough questions can easily continue to stonewall, especially when the story is for most part being investigated by a blogger (i.e. you). maybe it's time to get "60 minutes" involved. i know they are "mainstream media" and as such, can be pretty whimpy, but i also know they tend to love these kind of stories. i realize the tendency of bloggers to want to go it alone and protect their turf --- don't blame you there one bit. still, it may be time to at least talk to some big media (with big money), and see if they'd be willing to team up with you on this. just my opinion. the other option is to get a democratic senator involved. somebody with some clout --- and money --- has got to start getting to the bottom of these unanswered questions. that, to me, is the bottom line at this point.

COMMENT #4 [Permalink]

... Robert Lockwood Mills said on 3/8/2005 @ 12:32 pm PT...





Somebody has to explain how Lemme checked out of the motel at 6:54 a.m. on 6/30/03, signed a "suicide" note at 8:10 a.m. (no date given), then got back into the same motel in time to be found dead on 7/1/03, without checking back in. Did he occupy the same room the second time? The check-out clerk should be shown a photo of Lemme and asked, "Is this the man who checked out at 6:54 on 6/30?" The signature on the slip does seem to match the note. It sure looks as if Lemme's second visit to the motel came after he was dead. One possibility to explain the handwriting on the note is that he had been told, "Write this note or we'll kill your wife and daughter, too." If Lemme had realized he was dealing with desperate men, that would have been a way to protect them, even in death.

COMMENT #5 [Permalink]

... Robert said on 3/8/2005 @ 12:33 pm PT...





I agree completely with #3, you need some help with money and a big name media to push through the sludge you are sure to encounter. If you have that kind of help, perhaps the police will be more apt to really solve the case, even if they are pressured by outside influences, such as Feeney, Yang, etc. You're doing a super job Brad!

COMMENT #6 [Permalink]

... Nana said on 3/8/2005 @ 12:49 pm PT...





People depressed enough to kill themselves, don't go to work early, or get excited about a case. A person planning suicide is not involved in the future, because they feel like there is no future.

COMMENT #7 [Permalink]

... Dredd said on 3/8/2005 @ 12:57 pm PT...





#3,#5 It is my current understanding that this is the district of Cynthia McKinney ... or at least she is from Georgia and may be able to help. Anyone from georgia out there who wants to contact her?

COMMENT #8 [Permalink]

... Winter Patriot said on 3/8/2005 @ 1:01 pm PT...





From what I have read on this site in the last several months, it seems to me that Brad has been trying to get big media interested in this case for a long time. So there's no need to be concerned about "a blogger trying to protect his turf." The thing to be concerned about, as far as I can tell, is that no big media source has enough courage to go where Brad is willing to go. I would be surprised if any high-profile politician has enough courage either. But then again, if we make enough noise, we might be able to embolden some of them. It's worked once or twice before.... for that reason, I think we should all work as hard as possible to attract some serious attention to this story. Each in his or her own way, of course. Got any pajamas? Got any beer? Ready, set, go!

COMMENT #9 [Permalink]

... czaragorn said on 3/8/2005 @ 1:03 pm PT...





Brad, you're doing us all proud. Please keep up the good work, and watch your back. And if you need a good proofer (the past tense of "to lead" is "led" not "lead" for example) I'll be happy to proof anything you feel might need proofing, which along with writing and translating is what I do for a living, gratis, just to get the first gander at the great stuff you dig up! Until such time, bra...

COMMENT #10 [Permalink]

... tashiro said on 3/8/2005 @ 1:13 pm PT...





Here is a link to Shannon Floyd the new instructor at Valdosta College.

COMMENT #11 [Permalink]

... G said on 3/8/2005 @ 1:18 pm PT...





Nana #6 Very good point.

COMMENT #12 [Permalink]

... dab said on 3/8/2005 @ 1:21 pm PT...





great story brad. i assume you have found this already, but didn't see it in the story or comments. shannon floyd is at valdosta technical college as a law enforcement instructor. the announcement can be found here (half-way down the page): www.valdostatech.edu/news/index.asp

COMMENT #13 [Permalink]

... cheryl said on 3/8/2005 @ 1:38 pm PT...





Be careful Brad. These people hurt people.

COMMENT #14 [Permalink]

... Miss Persistent said on 3/8/2005 @ 1:43 pm PT...





It is my understanding that suicide is a selfish act by a severely depressed (hopeless) person and is often intended to hurt others. It is also my understanding that self-mutilation is a form of blaming and punishing one's self. If true, and I cannot swear that it is, the suicide note does not seem to fit with the self-punishment style of death.

COMMENT #15 [Permalink]

... KestrelBrighteyes said on 3/8/2005 @ 1:44 pm PT...





To start with, I'd bring in a handwriting expert on the signature thing, and submit samples of Lemme's handwriting to be compared with both the note and the signature. Yes, he might have written the note under duress and to protect his family. But, look at the way the word "family" is underlined - I can't say why, it just feels odd for some reason. Besides the underline, doesn't it seem he'd say something personal to his wife and daughter in the note? Just a hunch, and maybe I'm out in left field, but... The problem is, if there are people in power keeping the case from being investigated, it would be hard to get anything done without hiring a private independent investigator, and they cost big bucks. Unfortunately, that part of the Clint Curtis/Tom Feeney story may have to be investigated after the fact, meaning after all the other dominoes fall. Going at it from the other end may be the only way to solve the crime once and for all. With the photos on the 'net, at least it'll be harder to destroy that particular evidence. Too bad Soros doesn't have a bone to pick with Feeney, that kinda financial backing could make a dent. Still, Feeney is bound to have made some enemies over the time of his career, maybe some of them will come forward before all is said and done. BTW, just out of curiosity, he's up for election again in 2006 isen't he? Who's running against him, any idea yet? Good job Brad. Take care of yourself, you're bound to be making some bad people nervous.

COMMENT #16 [Permalink]

... Bishop Jim Burch said on 3/8/2005 @ 1:46 pm PT...





Thank you for this valuable service you do by not letting this subject just go. We need to know the truth, and it has not yet been found. Keep going!

COMMENT #17 [Permalink]

... anart said on 3/8/2005 @ 1:48 pm PT...





Yes, you've done a great job, but you're never going to get anyone in a position of power to touch this - the people behind it are more powerful and more rich and are very very interested in keeping the status quo. You can't look at the past decade in this country and not see the increase in a blatant pattern of lies, deception and murder by those in power - and those with lesser power often don't have the will to risk their own meal ticket- and those who do, the real truth seekers who still believe that we have a chance to change anything end up dead. If any democratic politician cared about the truth, the election would have been contested and the burden of proof placed on the GOP - which, we all know, never came close to happening.

COMMENT #18 [Permalink]

... Dazy said on 3/8/2005 @ 1:48 pm PT...





Hey this is some kinda work Brad!! You ROCK...

Question...anyone know what happened to Lemme's work, his files and information that he said had linked all this Curtis info to the top? Is the wife in possession of his work, or did it evaporate into thin air?? I put NOTHING past the Bush regime...i don't doubt murder could be involved in regards to any power plays by Bush and Co. No doubts whatsoever...

COMMENT #19 [Permalink]

... KestrelBrighteyes said on 3/8/2005 @ 1:52 pm PT...





You might also have a hard time getting to Shannon Floyd now - sounds like she may have already been warned not to speak with you or anyone else about the case. Any chance of getting the GBI involved? I've found state agencies are more willing to help in some cases than local agencies, at least here in Tennessee. Of course, that may not hold true for someone in a position in the US House of Representives.

COMMENT #20 [Permalink]

... mmiixx said on 3/8/2005 @ 1:59 pm PT...





TO ALL INVESTIGATORS,

CONSIDER CREATEING A SUICIDE PASSWORD TO GIVE TO YOUR LAWYER.

Example,

I �������BEING OF SOUND MIND AND BODY ON THIS DAY ������� PROMISED TO INCLUDE THE FOLLOWING �SUICIDE PASSWORD� IN ANY AND ALL �SUICIDE NOTES OR MESSAGES� LEFT BY ME IN THE EVENT OF A SELF-INFLICTED INJURY OR DEATH.

I FURTHER STATE THAT IN THE AVENT OF MY DEATH BY ANY MEANS, BE TREATED AS SUSPIOUS AND AN AUTOPSY SHOULD BY PROFORMED IF THE ABOVE �SUICIDE PASSWORD� (OR PHRASE) IS NOT INCLUDED IN ANY ALLEGED �SUICIDE NOTE� ACCREDITED TO ME ON MY DEMISE.

SIGNED �����..

WITNESSED ������� I'm not a lawyer but surely something like this could let family and friends know that their loved one chose their course of action and their death was not the result of "external influence or pressure".

P.S. Was the vehicle impounded as there may be evidence relating to the possible tranport of Mr. Lemme (across a state line)?

COMMENT #21 [Permalink]

... Pale Rider said on 3/8/2005 @ 2:04 pm PT...





:rolleyes:Just another pathetic liberal who couldn't deal with the fact that President Bush won the election fair and square.

COMMENT #22 [Permalink]

... Dredd said on 3/8/2005 @ 2:05 pm PT...





The method used is highly unusual in males. The most prevalent method is gunshot, with hanging coming in after that. Slashing like that is quite rare. And as the blood level got low wouldn't hallucination and self preservation mentality take over in a dream or semi-conscious or weakened mental state leading to movement from ... or within the bathtub in a primitive protective automatic system ... kinda like knee jerk. He looked docile like no movement of any significance had taken place. That is strange. A Freedom of Information Act request to the FDOT and the Valdosta Police might lead to the person in the FDOT who was talked to. Also, the family should have credit card billing to show the dates the credit card company received the billing on checkin and checkout ...

COMMENT #23 [Permalink]

... Losing Faith said on 3/8/2005 @ 2:10 pm PT...





There are some strange circumstances here and at the very least some inadequate investigation, but I'm not completely convinced of the receipts pointing to anything but wonky equipment. The price is the same which would inicate that check-in and checkout were the same day, not 3 days apart.

COMMENT #24 [Permalink]

... Pale Rider said on 3/8/2005 @ 2:14 pm PT...





But Dredd, maybe he was "in touch" with his feminine side and that's why he chose the method of suicide that he did. He looked "docile" because he was probably reconciled to his death which is very common in suicidal people.

COMMENT #25 [Permalink]

... MrBlueSky said on 3/8/2005 @ 2:16 pm PT...





Good job Brad. We're all behind you 100% here! I think it may be time to notify Michael Moore (so we get everything on tape) and then show it in movie theaters across the country. Heaven forbid the Mainstream Media should ever do anything about this. Make it big Brad... that's the only way to keep the ball rolling, especially when the evil people think you are getting too close. Like I said, though, we are all with you here. MrBlueSky

COMMENT #26 [Permalink]

... Peg C said on 3/8/2005 @ 2:16 pm PT...





Wonderful, selfless work, Brad. We're proud of you. I'm glad that you are becoming more visible, with media interviews and all, because the more people that know about you and what you are doing, the safer you are. Poor Lemme wasn't a public figure - yet.

COMMENT #27 [Permalink]

... Peg C said on 3/8/2005 @ 2:29 pm PT...





This is a headline link on Raw Story.

COMMENT #28 [Permalink]

... DJ Nelson said on 3/8/2005 @ 2:41 pm PT...





There is an incredible number of political murders going on starting with my friend an d honest to a fault, Sen Paul Wellstone.This was no accident.Just like John Kennedy Jr. and Mel Carnahan.Identical circumstances.We now have the greatest criminal organization ever running this country. Truth is the only possible way to save all of our butts.The NWO will spare no one that stands in it's way. The Zionist Jews now control everything in this country. The entire media,the entire government,the banking system. This may have to come to fghting fire with fire with millions of armed citizens.This is he one thing they fear most. GW Bush once said to departed reporter Sarah McClendon."If the people ever find out what we are doing, they will chase us down the street and lynch us.The emporer of Japan once commented I fear we have awakened a sleeping giant. WW 2. Lets wake up America. It doesn't have have to go this way.

COMMENT #29 [Permalink]

... Gerri said on 3/8/2005 @ 2:46 pm PT...





Brad, Thank you for having the courage to report this stuff. I was blogging yesterday and a read a blog about Hunter S. and allegdly he told a friend that he was working on a big story about 911 and had some evidence that the World Trade Center was also bombed in that there were explosives in the building . He also said to the friend that he was affraid he would be "suicided" Brad check Sander Hicks interview with Daniel Hopsicker. Didnt't the first person to write about W's drug habit commit suicide.

COMMENT #30 [Permalink]

... G said on 3/8/2005 @ 2:49 pm PT...





It's not uncommon for chain motels to run the check in tickets (1st receipt) generally around "midnight' the day you check in ... and that date appears on the ticket. Its really odd they would run one at at 6:44PM the night of check in ... thats very, very early... unless they post arrival times????? Generally speaking, they could issue both receipts at check in (arrival time) if you pay at the "same time". Then both receipts would be time stamped within a couple of minutes. However, 99% of the motels I stayed at wouldn't do that. Signing a master, Visia, AMX card receipt the morning of check out is standard practice. What bothers me is the date and time differences. I have stayed at hundreds of motels and believe me I've tried on many occassions to have someone alter the day and/or time on those very same receipts without success. Even while the clerk has a crisp, new $20 bill waving back and forth in front of their face. With "chain" motels, I believe Knights Inn's is one, the dates are controlled by corporate hqtrs computer on the check in ticket and the bank on credit card receipts. You can't change those dates or times and they are never wrong". Nana #6 brought up a good point .... depressed people to not get up at 5:30 AM to check out of a motel. Also, did he talk with his wife the night of check in (29th)??? Check when the motel runs the days "check in tickets" (1st. receipt). That 6:44PM time is very, very early. Either he was DOA in a trunk at check in time.... or on a spur of the moment decision he met someone at the motel? Why was he there? The only thing you know for certain is ...someone shows up twice at the motel front desk ... and if it was Ray .... then someone was waiting for him in the motel room after he checks out on the 30th??? Say, he was a military guy ... shouldn't the government have his fingerprints??? Would the fingerprints show up on the motel copy of the ticket and/or bank copy of the receipt?? What happened to his receipts?? Do the police have them checked for fingerprints?? I would think "60 Minutes" would love this investigation.

COMMENT #31 [Permalink]

... nunya said on 3/8/2005 @ 3:09 pm PT...





":rolleyes:Just another pathetic liberal who couldn't deal with the fact that President Bush won the election fair and square." Pail Rider: some drunken snot bag who hangs over a pail all day because he is about to barf from mixing fru fru drinks and beer. What makes you think he was a liberal, or even a democrat? Just because he wasn't a wannabe cop, president of his Lutheran church congregation, and wannabe cop and Republican, like BTK? It does get pretty damn strange when you begin to look into the connections between this, Danny Casolaro, INSLAW, BCCI, Iran-Contra, The Christic Institute, and Gary Webb. Guess who is back in the government today. All the major players, some who were even convicted, in the Iran-Contra affair. I am a professional cynic and skeptic, and this stinks to lower than low hell.

COMMENT #32 [Permalink]

... Jeff said on 3/8/2005 @ 3:10 pm PT...





You are a brave individual Brad! I admire you. Hang tough and that suicide password thing might not be a bad idea. I got here from www.rawstory.com. This story is spreading. si submitted this page to mm.

COMMENT #33 [Permalink]

... Bob Bilse said on 3/8/2005 @ 3:15 pm PT...





I've been hoping we'd hear meore on this case. The timing of a "suicide" makes no sense in his case, and I hope this will open more doors that need to be opened for Mr. Curtis' case.

COMMENT #34 [Permalink]

... nunya said on 3/8/2005 @ 3:21 pm PT...





Hey pail rider, even though your wife has infrequent ablutial urges, like you, I do her while you are at work, and she loves it the liberal meat. DJ Nelson, that was Admiral Yamamoto who said that, not the Emperor, and he was shot down in a plane in an operation intended to kill him, but not necessary to make it look like an accident. So was Dag Hammerskjold. So it happens, but you are going off into LaRouchian tin foil hat land, bubba.

COMMENT #35 [Permalink]

... Dissue said on 3/8/2005 @ 3:27 pm PT...





Shannon Floyd is teaching at Valdosta Technical College. See: http://www.valdostatech.edu/news/index.asp "Shannon Floyd New Law Instructor Shannon Floyd joins the faculty of Valdosta Technical College as the Law Enforcement Instructor. She will teach in the new Criminal Justice program that began January 6, 2005.

She holds a Master of Public Administration degree and a Bachelor of Arts in Criminal Justice degree, both from Valdosta State University. Floyd taught as an adjunct professor in Criminal Justice for Valdosta State from 2003-2004. While at the university as a student, she worked for the VSU Department of Public Safety.

Her professional experience includes work with the City of Valdosta Police Department as a forensic specialist, firearm examiner, detective and crime scene technician as well as patrolman. She has also worked as a private investigator and held an internship with the Georgia Bureau of Investigation.

Floyd holds certifications as an Identification Technician, the Basic Peace Officer Certification, Identification of Marijuana by Microscope Certification and a Smith & Wesson Armorers Certification. She is the Membership Committee Chair for the South Georgia Chapter of the Police Benevolent Association of Georgia, Inc. and a member of the Peace Officers Association of Georgia. She published an article, �Why Education is Important� in the Georgia Troopers� News Journal in the Spring/Summer 1995 edition." There's a picture of her on this page as well. Thanks, Brad, for all of your great work on this issue! I agree that staying in the public eye might help keep you safe, but be careful!

COMMENT #36 [Permalink]

... Scott said on 3/8/2005 @ 3:34 pm PT...





Brad this is the first time I read about this and it is incredulous. Clearly there are some stark inconsistancies that probably indicate foul play. A ninth grade HS student could complete a better investigation than it appears the Valdosta Police Department are capable. It saddens me to no end to see that local police men and woman will compromise themselves and succumb to political pressure and bury a probable murder case. Could you post the names, addresses, emails and telephone numbers of any government officials and employees so I can contact them directly and encourage them to follow through on their investigation. Thank you.

COMMENT #37 [Permalink]

... Pale Rider said on 3/8/2005 @ 3:35 pm PT...





[quote]What makes you think he was a liberal, or even a democrat? Just because he wasn't a wannabe cop, president of his Lutheran church congregation, and wannabe cop and Republican, like BTK?[/quote] I made the assumption because he was investigating a wild assed conspiracy about election fraud. Quite simular to the cries of "massive" numbers of voter intimidation in Florida that, somehow mysteriously DID NOT result in any court cases.....hmmmmm. Must've been because there wasn't any. Even the race baiting Jesse Jackson couldn't get any factual cases scraped up to form a civil suit.

COMMENT #38 [Permalink]

... KestrelBrighteyes said on 3/8/2005 @ 3:36 pm PT...





The inconsistencies with the times and dates can not be explained away - check-ins, check outs, phone calls, witnesses, even his watch stopping (Was it a wind-up? Was there a REASON it was laying on the bathroom counter and just "stopped" at 12:54 on the 30th?) Didn't someone see Lemme at a payphone that morning? Has anyone seen the phone records for the hotel (not just the room) and for Lemme's house and the company he worked for during that time period?

COMMENT #39 [Permalink]

... Brad said on 3/8/2005 @ 3:47 pm PT...





Busy with much here for the moment guys, so haven't gotten to read all comments yet. But to quickly respond to Lewis who said in #3 above: maybe it's time to get "60 minutes" involved. i know they are "mainstream media" and as such, can be pretty whimpy, but i also know they tend to love these kind of stories. 60 Minutes, and other major news organizations know about this story. I have no "turf" I'm interested in protecting here. In fact, before I released the original Curtis affidavit, I offered the entire story to a major newspaper and would have *much* preferred they ran with the story than I. Since then, I have been contacted by scores of major media organizations, and have always told them I'm happy to help them in *any* way, and give them *everything* I've got. I'd *love* to have anyone else take over the story...Until then, it seems I need to keep on reporting it. Things may change soon though. We'll see...

COMMENT #40 [Permalink]

... Potemkin said on 3/8/2005 @ 3:50 pm PT...





First and foremost, I wish to extend my deepest sympaties to Mr. Lemme's family and loved ones. I cannot imagine how painful it must have been to experience such a tragic loss so suddenly and so unexpectedly --- no matter what the cause. Then to have these pictures splattered across the internet, along with complete strangers dissecting the "facts"...it just must be really unbearable. I am so sorry. Brad, I respect your caution and your inner-struggle regarding the link you have posted to the crime scene photos. Because you waited to post the link, continued to investigate the "oddities" of the Valdosta police report; as well as attempt to penetrate Capt. Childress's non-stonewalling stonewalling of past and recent events; and because Mr. Lemmes untimely and unusual death DOES ultimately pertain to the Clint Curtis story; I can only conclude that you have done the right thing. This whole thing smacks of tabloid journalism. Certainly not because of you, your work, or because of Clint Curtis, but because the whole convoluted mess reads like a B-grade movie. Unfortunately, this is no movie. It's real. And it's really sad. I guess the one question that keeps swirling in my mind is this: If Mr. Lemme was purposefully targeted and killed, why then would the perpetrator(s) stop there? It seems to me, they would want to..um...take care of, shall we say?... Mr. Curtis as well. Keep up the good work, Brad. You and Clint please stay safe.

COMMENT #41 [Permalink]

... Teresa said on 3/8/2005 @ 4:00 pm PT...





Well, well, well, well, well. Looks like the heat is on. Teresa Heinz Kerry just publically stated: "COUNTING THE VOTES: Heinz Kerry is openly skeptical about results from November's election, particularly in sections of the country where optical scanners were used to record votes. "Two brothers own 80 percent of the machines used in the United States," Heinz Kerry said. She identified both as "hard-right" Republicans. She argued that it is "very easy to hack into the mother machines." "We in the United States are not a banana republic," added Heinz Kerry. She argued that Democrats should insist on "accountability and transparency" in how votes are tabulated. "I fear for '06," she said. "I don't trust it the way it is right now." the coming end

COMMENT #42 [Permalink]

... Pale Rider said on 3/8/2005 @ 4:05 pm PT...





To Teresa Heinz (Note: Teresa is not using her husband's last name anymore. One can only assume that this is because she doesn't want to be associated with the loser.): Please provide some proof of your hair brained supposition.

COMMENT #43 [Permalink]

... Winter Patriot said on 3/8/2005 @ 4:13 pm PT...





re #42. She posted the link. What the heck else do you want? You haven't posted any references to anything you have said, so what does that say about you? Troll.

COMMENT #44 [Permalink]

... Brad said on 3/8/2005 @ 4:23 pm PT...





In case Pale Rider missed it, Raymond Lemme was an Army Reservist. He was also investigating the case as part of his *job* at the Florida State Inspector General's office. You might want to check a few more facts in the case before jumping to conclusions which will likely make only *you* look silly. As well, Clint Curtis was a lifelong Republican up until very recently. Just in case you missed that part as well.

COMMENT #45 [Permalink]

... peterpont said on 3/8/2005 @ 4:30 pm PT...





Gee Brad, I haven't used a double-edged razor blade since I was a kid. Is the blade consistent with the shaving gear he used? Did he have additional blades with him?I don't think you can buy just one. How did he carry it with out cutting something or himself. And speaking of cuts. He was righthanded, correct? and did his right hand have any cuts near the fingers that would have had to grip the blade? Not playing amatuer detective here, just curious and wonder why no one who investigated was. And another thing. Look at the organized way everything is laid out on the vanity top--Hardly the sign of a "distraught " man.( looks more like a valet did the job)

I question the following-the lack of any information that indicates a desire to die. He had help and any real police investigater would have looked for the obvious things that I have pointed out, and probabley a lot more. This is just another example of Southern hospitality in reverse Take care Brad

Peter

COMMENT #46 [Permalink]

... p.lukasiak said on 3/8/2005 @ 4:32 pm PT...





one question: What happened to Lemme's body? Although there was clearly no autopsy, a number of people (including mortuary/funeral parlor employees) might remember if there was considerable bruising as there appears to be on Lemme's neck. (and, given his posture, this is not the kind of bruise that one would see as a result of post-mortem polling of blood at lower points of the body.)

COMMENT #47 [Permalink]

... Robert Lockwood Mills said on 3/8/2005 @ 4:33 pm PT...





Whenever right-wingers start to appear here, it means only one thing...they're nervous. Suddenly, we have a flood of "loser" messages again. Thanks again, Brad. And thanks to you, Teresa. The genie is squirming inside the bottle.

COMMENT #48 [Permalink]

... Ilene said on 3/8/2005 @ 4:41 pm PT...





Sorry to go back so long on string, but I just got a chance to read through these now. In reference to #28, DJ Nelson talks about a possible conspiracy and even mentions his friendship with Paul Wellstone, and then, out of the blue, throws in this bit of anti-semetic drivel "The Zionist Jews now control everything in this country. The entire media,the entire government,the banking system." For centuries, Jews have been blamed for everything wrong with the world and I resent having to read this same garbage on this site. What Brad is doing is fantastic and to have such anti-semitic shit attached to this discussion is uncalled for - especially from someone who claims that Paul Wellstone, a Jew, was a friend of his. I can actually stomach the trolls because I know where they are coming from. But we are supposed to be the intelligent ones who rise above that - only to have one of our own insert such garbage.

COMMENT #49 [Permalink]

... loretta said on 3/8/2005 @ 4:49 pm PT...





i knew from the get go all was not right.just got turned on to this site.it's great keep up the good job with keeping us informed,, :O :O

COMMENT #50 [Permalink]

... Bando Bling said on 3/8/2005 @ 4:50 pm PT...





To commit suicide is not easy. One has to be really depressed to do this. In a clinical depressed situation how can Lemme be excited about his 'work'. Things don't add up here. Things are fishy enough here. A chinese mob hit cannot be ruled out. Keep going Brad!!

COMMENT #51 [Permalink]

... Winter Patriot said on 3/8/2005 @ 4:51 pm PT...





re #48 this may not be the place for such a discussion, but since it got started here there's probably no better place for it. -- How do you know that DJNelson is "one of our own". Have you heard from him before? Could he not be a troll? I'm not saying he is or isn't, I'm just asking how you can be so sure. -- How do you know that his remark "The Zionist Jews now control everything in this country. The entire media, the entire government, the banking system" is "drivel"? What if it's true? If it is true, that would explain a lot of things that don't otherwise make any sense. So ... if you can prove he's wrong then please do so. But just throwing the term "anti-semetic" at him doesn't cut it. At least not for me. Again I am not claiming that he's right or wrong. I would like to see some evidence. On both sides.

COMMENT #52 [Permalink]

... Robert Lockwood Mills said on 3/8/2005 @ 4:57 pm PT...





Exactly right. Stick to facts and leave the racial and ethnic crap to the other side. Fact: Raymond Lemme said he was on the verge of breaking a major political scandal involving Feeney, Yang, and the Florida Department of Transportation. Then he died by mysterious and unexplained means. Fact: He checked out of a motel a day before his body was found inside that same motel. Fact: Lemme had no reason to be depressed. On the contrary, he was energized by the success of his investigation. He was also looking forward to his daughter's wedding. Fact: Investigators in Valdosta, Georgia are conspicuously avoiding discussing the evidence. And, having reopened the investigation in December, 2004, they suddenly closed it again after speaking to the Florida Department of Transportation, which might have been complicit in the very wrongdoing Lemme was investigating. Fact: There was no reason for Lemme to have been in Valdosta in the first place, except if he had been drawn there by someone who promised to help with his investigation. However, there is strong reason for a murderer to have staged a fake suicide in Georgia...unlike Florida, Georgia has no mandatory autopsy requirement.

COMMENT #53 [Permalink]

... KestrelBrighteyes said on 3/8/2005 @ 5:05 pm PT...





It's pickin up steam folks - If The Media Is Liberal Why Aren't They All Over This

COMMENT #54 [Permalink]

... Teresa said on 3/8/2005 @ 5:05 pm PT...





The Rothschild family is in control of much of the money in this world. They are of Jewish descent and financed the creation of Israel. They are powerful politically, and propel Zionist concerns forward in world affairs.

Zionist Jews probably don't control everything, but they do control a lot.

COMMENT #55 [Permalink]

... Adam said on 3/8/2005 @ 5:07 pm PT...





Wow, Winter Patriot, I am truly disgusted. What DJNelson said was CLEARLY anti-semetic cand untrue. Nobody is infallible and for you to try to cover up for him just because he's "one of us" is foolish and counterproductive. I am quite disappointed.

COMMENT #56 [Permalink]

... NYCee said on 3/8/2005 @ 5:12 pm PT...





Its my understanding that Clint Curtis did speak with several sena�ors/reps ... during the period after the so-called 'election' when Conyers was holding hearings, etc. I am shocked that nothing has exploded re Feeney. I have such a strong feeling in my gut that he was involved in foul play with vote-rigging ... and ... more. He made a very bad (viscerally so) impression on me during the stolen election fiasco of 2000, when all eyes and much media was on Florida, including the legislature. I took a very strong disliking to the man. I wouldnt have given him a second thought, but once this story surfaced, after the election ... that memory snapped right back. So, what did happen with the senators who spoke to Clint?

COMMENT #57 [Permalink]

... Julia Davis said on 3/8/2005 @ 5:19 pm PT...





I am glad to hear they are finally going to attempt to discover some justice in this case. These photos just do not show a sucide situation, just to neat for my liking or taste. Note is fishy too, daughter getting married soon. Why would he kill himself when he is about to walk down the the church with his baby girl on his arm. This is not logical or make any sense to me as I am sure it does not for most individuals reading about this sad story.

COMMENT #58 [Permalink]

... Winter Patriot said on 3/8/2005 @ 5:20 pm PT...





Re #55: Adam wrote: "Wow, Winter Patriot, I am truly disgusted. What DJNelson said was CLEARLY anti-semetic cand untrue. Nobody is infallible and for you to try to cover up for him just because he's "one of us" is foolish and counterproductive. I am quite disappointed." Hey Adam: slow down, and read what I wrote again. (comment #51) ... I am not covering up for anybody. I did not say he is "one of us", it was Ilene who said that, and in fact I challenged her to prove it. I even suggested the possibility that he could have been trolling. I'm not taking sides here, I am only asking questions. I want to know from both DJNelson and Ilene whether they can back up what they wrote. That's all.

COMMENT #59 [Permalink]

... FRANCES LEE.... BRIGHT said on 3/8/2005 @ 5:23 pm PT...





the taking of power fraudulently was done by many in this nation. they know they are guilty. They know some one could talk. This murder may be the thing.. that screws them up. A good private decective is what... the lemme family needs. A man who has no fear. A man who knows.. how to get the facts, no matter who tries to hide them. I am going to write to the FBI a personal letter and I am going to tell them.. that if anything happens to you or to Clint Curtis.. I will know they were involved. Where is the justice? Heaven forbid if Gonzales or Aschroft acts.. like they are doing their jobs... eeeeeeeeegads.. they are as corrupt as tom feeney. Maybe some one at the FBI... just one person.. is not.. maybe Mueller? stay safe.. you guys... we are all watching and praying.. and everyone I see I tell them to read brad blog.

COMMENT #60 [Permalink]

... Maezeppa said on 3/8/2005 @ 5:24 pm PT...





What a sickening feeling I had reading this latest chapter in the Curtis case. It seems so much more plausible that Lemme was murdered than was not. How I wish for the day this election corruption comes to light. With all the billions at stake, and with all these Bush people have to hide, what's a life here or there?

COMMENT #61 [Permalink]

... steve said on 3/8/2005 @ 5:33 pm PT...





There is a Shannon Floyd at the Valdosta Technical

School. I googled her name, she is teaching Law

Enforcment.

COMMENT #62 [Permalink]

... MikeyCan said on 3/8/2005 @ 5:42 pm PT...





Why would somebody start a suicide note with the time of day? ("8:10 am"). Really, a person in that mental state could care less what time it is. I don't believe for one second that Raymond Lemme committed suicide. And neither do most of the people posting here. If we are right, it is only a matter of time before the REST of the truth comes *FLOODING* out. But it won't happen on its own... It's a shame that the big news organizations have turned into such gutless cowards and heartless politicos. *Keep on digging, everyone!* And Brad, kudos as always.

COMMENT #63 [Permalink]

... Miss Persistent said on 3/8/2005 @ 5:44 pm PT...





It is ok to be awake late and up early if you are severely depressed. The diagnostic manual accepts either excessive sleep or excessive sleeplessness. Loss of appetite or increase. Weight loss or increase. But certainly he'd have had feelings of hopelessness - not "hey in 2 weeks we'll have answers..." Putting a time of 8:10 am on the note - is precise. Is that common? Cutting your wrists is...long, drawn out, time to change one's mind, imprecise. Be careful for Shannon Floyd - she may need protection. If she followed orders without a peep she'd still be in. If she had reservations she'd be out. If she were in control, she'd be in. Etc. What is the purpose of the tourniqet (sp)? Wouldn't he have had to do research on using that? Geez, a million questions!!!! This is awful. Brad, most heroic!

COMMENT #64 [Permalink]

... ewastud said on 3/8/2005 @ 5:51 pm PT...





To comment #59: Don't look to Mueller, for God's sake. He is probably one of the most corrupt members of the Bush administration and probably knows where many of the Bush crime family's bodies are buried, both literally and figuratively. Is it any coincidence that Mueller took office just days before 9/11? Mueller was head of the Justice Department's Criminal Division during the reign of Bush I when DOJ failed to investigate and prosecute the extremely corrupt and murderous folks at BCCI, and did everything to stonewall and derail the investigation of the bank by New York DA Robert Morganthau who went beyond his normal jurisdiction to try to bring the bad guys to justice. Read the excellent book by Beatty and Gwynne, The Outlaw Bank: BCCI, for details.

COMMENT #65 [Permalink]

... KenCalvino said on 3/8/2005 @ 5:58 pm PT...





There was one major thing that really bothered me in seeing those photos. By appearances, this man was meticulate. He supposedly wrote the note - noting the time. The bathroom sink was all arranged neatly - everything was placed just so. And it indeed was a suicide and he planned on being in the tub, then why is there blood outside the tub near the toilet on that towel and the blood way up on the shower tub walls. It seems that if he was being that careful with everything else, that he would have also been just as careful with the final act. If everything was so planned, why would he be so sloppy in the actual act. It just doesn't make any sense.

COMMENT #66 [Permalink]

... Winter Patriot said on 3/8/2005 @ 6:03 pm PT...





Re #65. I agree completely, Ken. There's a lot here that just doesn't make any sense ... except if it wasn't a suicide.

COMMENT #67 [Permalink]

... Winter Patriot said on 3/8/2005 @ 6:06 pm PT...





re #53. That's a great link, Kes. Good comments there too. It's always a good sign when the trolls come out.

COMMENT #68 [Permalink]

... Miss Persistent said on 3/8/2005 @ 6:11 pm PT...





And what else was in the "day planner?"

COMMENT #69 [Permalink]

... KestrelBrighteyes said on 3/8/2005 @ 6:16 pm PT...





Okay, everybody, the story is out - the fire is spreading. We have to be patient. Things could happen very fast now, and I expect a WHOLE lot of misinformation - it's the S.O.P with this bunch. It's great to have the new folks checking in and speaking out - our strength is in numbers. But, we really have to be careful not to fall into the "tin foil hat" category. Conjecture could do a lot of damage. And we have to do everything we can to avoid causing any more pain to the Lemme family - what they have been through already, we can only imagine. Brad's done great. This will come out, there's no way it can be stopped now. Everybody just hang on - it's liable to be a bumpy ride.

COMMENT #70 [Permalink]

... odds said on 3/8/2005 @ 6:34 pm PT...





People who commit suicide don't normally leave a suicide note. That there is a suicide note is already a suspicious situation. Murderers are rarely aware of this and think it will "make it look like suicide", whereas the opposite is true --- the presence of a suicide note makes it look more like murder, not less.

COMMENT #71 [Permalink]

... Dazy said on 3/8/2005 @ 6:46 pm PT...





I guess my question is moot and obvious? Is Lemme's work and files just vanished as well as this poor man's life? Is there no record of any of his work, anywhere??

Just asking, it's something i didn't read anywhere, or anyone else has asked..unless i missed it..

Man, brad, you've got me all tangled up in your blog, it's only my third time here in the past year of blogging for me..you got me!! Prayers and safety...

COMMENT #72 [Permalink]

... Peg C said on 3/8/2005 @ 6:47 pm PT...





Teresa #54, Winter Patriot #58 - It's unfortunate that prejudice and society's earnest attempts to overcome it sometimes create an even greater and more insidious bigotry: intolerance for any remark, whether innocently made or not, whether truthful or just speculative, that appears to be critical of the "protected" group - in this case Jews. Zionist Jews. P.C. bigotry leads to the wilful refusal to look at facts because facts might turn out not to be P.C. It also leads to logical fallacies and confused thinking. As when a hypothetical reporter speaking of a gang in L.A. as a "gang of black youth" is set upon for racial prejudice although, in fact, the gang in question IS comprised entirely of black youth. I have no more racial or religious prejudice than a turnip. I converted to Judaism when engaged to a Jewish man. So when I say that Ariel Sharon is dangerous, I mean that he is dangerous, not that I don't like Jews. Just a ramble - I'm tired and we have a major storm going on that keeps disconnecting me, so if my remarks appear disjointed, it's probably because they are.

COMMENT #73 [Permalink]

... Mary R. said on 3/8/2005 @ 7:00 pm PT...





Brad, congratulations on a job well done. Would that the mainstream media pursue the truth with as much integrity as you have. Thank you for continuing your quest for the truth. Mr. Lemme is another in a long line of questionable suicides and rigged airplane accidents. (Yes, Paul Wellstone was murdered.) God bless Mr. Lemme's family for being put through this hell by the powers that be. May the people who have committed this murder (and covered it up) receive payback tenfold.

COMMENT #74 [Permalink]

... cheryl said on 3/8/2005 @ 7:28 pm PT...





Ilene #48 re: DJNelson #28,

I'm not at all sure that DJ is *one of our own.* This is a very delicate subject and everyone is always very careful to avoid it because of fears of being accused of anti-Semitism. I am not anti-Semite. I have a whole bunch of Jewish friends. But I'm not at all sure about Zionist Jews. I'm not even comfortable typing that. I agree with Winter Patriot in that I'd like to see evidence on both sides. I have been carefully following events of the past few years and Zionist Jews keep popping up in the equation. I have been very careful to not jump to conclusions, mostly because of my sympathy towards Jewish people, but there appears to be more and more evidence that the Zionists seem to be involved in a lot of odd situations. Is it anti-Semitic (?) to question? I don't think so. Non-accountability based on race or religious belief is wrong. We should be able to discuss how we feel without being accused of being racist or *anti* anything.

COMMENT #75 [Permalink]

... cannot find where brad was on abc news said on 3/8/2005 @ 7:36 pm PT...





{this comment has been deleted for many reasons: it's way off topic, it duplicates a comment made on another thread, and it came from a poster using multiple names. If you want to read the deleted text, it's still available on the other thread, here}

COMMENT #76 [Permalink]

... cheryl said on 3/8/2005 @ 7:37 pm PT...





Ken and WP #65 & 66,

I'm not at all sure that HST committed suicide either.

COMMENT #77 [Permalink]

... stretch said on 3/8/2005 @ 7:39 pm PT...





Transparently obviously NOT likely a suicide. The body is conveniently found in Georgia, and on and on. Is there any vestige of a justice system left in Florida? That suicide password idea sounds pretty good to me, for anyone fighting for justice, for anyone making noise. Thanks Brad for your tenacity and courage.

COMMENT #78 [Permalink]

... a whisky priest said on 3/8/2005 @ 7:47 pm PT...





There's very little I would put past the criminals controlling the state of Florida and the United States of America these days. Ultimately they're doing it all for Jesus, you see, so it's OK. Really. Remember a fish rots from the head.

COMMENT #79 [Permalink]

... Mary R. said on 3/8/2005 @ 7:48 pm PT...





Is there any vestige of a justice system left in our entire country?

COMMENT #80 [Permalink]

... Peggy said on 3/8/2005 @ 7:48 pm PT...





More questions. Even if autopsies are not automatically performed in Georgia, one still could have been requested and performed, in Georgie or Florida. Once Mrs. Lemme has had time to consider, wouldn't she want her husband's murdered caught and brought to justice? I agree, that the "suicide note" indicates to me that Mr. Lemme was told to cooperate or that his "family" would be in jeopardy. Maybe Mrs. Lemme or daughter has actually been threatened, and that's why they are remaining silent. Finally, there are many interesting questions raised above, including the "rasor" used, and Mr. Lemme's journal. That woman Shannon Floyd sounds like an incompetent so-and-so, and will only be interested in her reputation and covering her butt. I hope someone will go and ask her a lot of questions which she won't answer, even if it's just to annoy her. It's minor compared to her inability to properly report on the death of Mr. Lemme. She is supposed to be an advocate for victims - the last line of defense. She failed!

COMMENT #81 [Permalink]

... Peggy said on 3/8/2005 @ 7:57 pm PT...





I guess it's too late to have Mr. Lemme's body exhumed and have a "professional" autopsy performed - or was his body cremated?

COMMENT #82 [Permalink]

... cj said on 3/8/2005 @ 8:13 pm PT...





This is the makings of a great story. I want to just point out to those that are getting enraged over racial slurs and such that any discussion of that kind of foolishness wheather for or against, diminishes the story here. Lets keep focused on the situation at hand. Disrupters in threads will often attempt to derail the conversation. The best fix for off subject discussion is to ignore it. Hopefully what I'm writing here will be the last of it. This case is incredibly perplexing and I am curious how the MSM has ignored it. It has the makings of a great story. A great sad story about the death of a man and possibly about the death of democracy.

COMMENT #83 [Permalink]

... buttonhole said on 3/8/2005 @ 8:16 pm PT...





whyever did the watch stop?

COMMENT #84 [Permalink]

... jjking said on 3/8/2005 @ 8:23 pm PT...





There is another conflict with the dates and receipts. The credit card shows a 06:54 check out and the "suicide note has 8:10 am written on it.

COMMENT #85 [Permalink]

... Gretchen Ross said on 3/8/2005 @ 8:26 pm PT...





Remember the woman who claimed Bush raped her? She committed suicide not too long ago as well. As did Hunter Thompson, days before he told a close friend he was going to be murdered. This is a good story Brad, Ive been emailing it around. Hope it gets some attention. Though these things usually never see the light of day.

COMMENT #86 [Permalink]

... Robert said on 3/8/2005 @ 8:36 pm PT...





I have the same question #71 had - what happened to the files, papers, etc. of Mr. Lemme?

Was he working alone or did someone help him? Perhaps that person, if there is one, has duplicate files. We definitely need someone with power(Senator , Congressman or otherwise) to push for a complete investigation. There has to be at least one honest government representative that has some guts! Anyone have any suggestions?

COMMENT #87 [Permalink]

... Winter Patriot said on 3/8/2005 @ 8:39 pm PT...





re #84. Right. He checked in, then he left his home and started for work (in another state), then he checked out, then he snuck back in, wrote a suicide note, filled the bathtub, climbed in and committed suicide, and then he stopped his watch. Or at least this is what we are supposed to believe. I am entirely convinced that Paul Wellstone and his family were murdered. I've been doing some research on this very recently, and planning to write a piece on it for my blog. Unfortunately it isn't ready yet. But it sure does look like a premeditated murder to me. One with high-level connections, too. But I am not at all sure what to make of the Hunter Thompson story. The Hollywood Liberal has been asking some interesting questions. His blog is here, and his HST article is about halfway down the page.

COMMENT #88 [Permalink]

... nunya said on 3/8/2005 @ 8:49 pm PT...





Pail Rider "I made the assumption because he was investigating a wild assed conspiracy about election fraud. Quite simular to the cries of "massive" numbers of voter intimidation in Florida that, somehow mysteriously DID NOT result in any court cases.....hmmmmm. Must've been because there wasn't any. Even the race baiting Jesse Jackson couldn't get any factual cases scraped up to form a civil suit." You made the assumption because you are knee-jerk neo-con asshole, who has the attention span of a game of Tic Tac Toe. He wasn't investigating election fraud you fucking idiot. Maybe you should take week to read all about it as they say. Unless of course, the fact that these neocon morons you worship, like one of your favorite commandments prohibits, being in bed with Chinese communist spies is OK with you. That's not OK with me, and I think Fidel Castro is the coolest thing since sliced bread. He's got more cajones than all the pansy ass politicians in this entire country put together.

COMMENT #89 [Permalink]

... nunya said on 3/8/2005 @ 9:00 pm PT...





"On July 1, 2003 --- just two weeks later --- Raymond Camillo Lemme was found dead in a bathtub, with his arm slashed twice with a razor blade near the left elbow in Room #132 of the Knights Inn motel in Valdosta, Georgia; a border-town some 80 miles from Tallahassee, Florida where Lemme lived and worked." Ray Lemme, psychic investigator. So good he is investigating 2004 election fraud in 2003. No wonder we have an idiot in the White House. With idiots like pail rider riding around on his pail, and probably too poor and stupid to afford in door plumbing, he has to pee in it too. Man! You Bushie trolls are stupid.

COMMENT #90 [Permalink]

... horkus said on 3/8/2005 @ 9:06 pm PT...





THE SUICIDE IS BULLSHIT. I don't usually get personal, but here goes. I've had two people near and dear to me in my life commit sucide. In both cases, no suicide notes. They both also felt trapped in a situation they felt they couldn't escape. People don't plan their suicides. It happens in a flurry of hopelessness. The suicide note should have been the first tip that this may have been murder. Suicide notes usually only happens in the movies. And they don't drive for miles to do it. Gives them time to think. With a murder, there's always a motive. That's true in a suicide too. What specifically did Lemme feel depressed about? People leaving this world aren't concerned with how they'll be perceived. They just want to leave. Why is a guy leaving this world worried about spilling blood on the bathroom floor? Sure, whatever. Keep digging, Brad. Your gut instincts are pointing you in the right direction.

COMMENT #91 [Permalink]

... Charles said on 3/8/2005 @ 9:12 pm PT...





You're asking where does it go from here? Its in our hands, the American public. It is our obligation to take this evidence, track down the investigators involved, get the family to speak and to present any and all information (including copies of information in this blog) to our house representatives and senators. Demand an answer, demand a special prosecutor and do it quickly. If someone traced it to the top, we can do the same. We're not just conspiracy theorists, and we need to stop being dismissed as such. Align yourself with allies in government and get them working on this. For now I think the most prudent thing would be to find out who in the FDOT was dealing with this. I doubt the hotel has security footage, but the family can subpoena to find out if there is any.

COMMENT #92 [Permalink]

... Peg C said on 3/8/2005 @ 9:15 pm PT...





O.K. I'm going to jump in here and feed the troll - just for a lark. What possible connection could there have been between Lemme's despondent "suicide" in 2003 to a depression brought on by Bush's "victory" in November 2004? Huh? (Ref #21) This prevailing right-wing brilliance is blinding.

COMMENT #93 [Permalink]

... Peg C said on 3/8/2005 @ 9:20 pm PT...





Nunya #88-89 - Love ya.

COMMENT #94 [Permalink]

... Peg C said on 3/8/2005 @ 9:31 pm PT...





I'm going to interject an OT here before crawling into bed and having a raging ice-storm lull me to sleep and sweet dreams. The VR site is deader'n' a doornail. No postings. No comments. Hey! Free and fair elections are what we desperately desire and stand for. Grisly murders are all fine and dandy; but we need to pay attention to our mundane daily bread. Patriots, arise!!

COMMENT #95 [Permalink]

... Winter Patriot said on 3/8/2005 @ 9:36 pm PT...





Thanks for that, Horkus. I'll get personal for a moment too. A friend of our family committed suicide and he did leave a note. Not really a note, but a long anguished letter, pages and pages and pages, in which he tried very hard to explain why he felt driven to do it. We're all different. There's no situation that would cause everybody to react the same way. The presence of a note does not eliminate the possibility that it was genuine suicide. But there many other details that make me think it was a murder. The discrepancies between the physical evidence and the police report make me very suspicious. And then there's a question of motive. Why would Ray Lemme want to die? Who else would want him dead?

COMMENT #96 [Permalink]

... american woman said on 3/8/2005 @ 9:37 pm PT...





Regarding the motel receipt dates, Brad reports that Childress said "We were told the management of the hotel made a mistake." I've read the entire police report. This is mentioned NO WHERE in the report. And "we were told", by who? During Brad's second conversation with Childress, Childress says "the media has blown this out of proportion." Uh, Hello? WHAT media? This has gone virtually unmentioned by "the media". Agree with Brad: WHO at the FDOT convinced them to re-close the case? Finally, as Robert Lockwood Mills says in Comment #4, somebody has some explaining to do about the timeline. I'll lay it out in another post.

COMMENT #97 [Permalink]

... Robodamus said on 3/8/2005 @ 9:44 pm PT...





SUICIDE NOTE GENUINE? Bear in mind, a person can be FORCED to write something down. Like a suicide note. It might be his real handwriting, because he might have really been forced to write it. The omission of his beloved daughter by name seems suspcious to me. Maybe it's something that his murderers didn't know about, and he intentionally left it out as a red flag. Hmm? Think about what the crime scene would've looked like WITHOUT a suicide note. Murder, right? Right.

COMMENT #98 [Permalink]

... horkus said on 3/8/2005 @ 9:50 pm PT...





#95 Winter, thanks for the reply. But a note and pages of letters are two different things. I'm not saying that a person who commits suicide won't write a note, it's just unusual. It doesn't happen in most cases. This could be one be one of those extraordinary rare cases where a person commiting suicide wrote a note, but unliklely in my mind as it pertains to the case. Suicide is a truly selfish act. The ones commiting the act don't think about the people they'll hurt. That is often why you won't find a suicide note. That alone should have made Lemme's death suspect.

COMMENT #99 [Permalink]

... Potemkin said on 3/8/2005 @ 9:58 pm PT...





Brad, I just read through all the posts and found my earlier post (#40) sounded quite different than I had intended. When I wrote it, I was caught up in the imaginings of what Mr. Lemme's family must be feeling. On the one hand, it must be like reliving the nightmare, but on the other, they must want answers as well. Anyway, I'd like to clarify my thoughts better. This is amazing work on your part. When I said it sounded like "tabloid journalism" or reads like "a B-grade movie", I meant the whole shebang: Mild mannered Clint Curtis caught in a world of international espionage, political powerplays and murder. I don't doubt any of this, it's just so very, very bizarre. I believe Clint's story. I think in all likelyhood Mr. Lemme was murdered. Particularly when one looks at the timeline of events. Peterpont in post #45 certainly makes some good observations as well. Finally, I just want to say that I think you are doing a bang-up job. Please be careful. These are dangerous people you are probably upsetting.That's all.

COMMENT #100 [Permalink]

... Southern Bell said on 3/8/2005 @ 10:14 pm PT...





The only way that the US citizens are going to deal with any of this ...... is take up arms against the current administration, and find a way to get the armed forces to stand down while this is going on. If this doe'nt happen, I'm afraid that it will be a fate of comple' Bush/Chenney and the boys will win.... (Not sure what they will win, but they will IMO)

COMMENT #101 [Permalink]

... Winter Patriot said on 3/8/2005 @ 10:15 pm PT...





in comment #98, Horkus wrote: "thanks for the reply".

Not at all. Same to you. "But a note and pages of letters are two different things."

Absolutely true. Another friend-of-a-friend committed suicide without even leaving a body. All kinds of people do all kinds of things. But in this case ... I would have a lot easier time believing that Ray Lemme's death was a suicide if his note had said anything about why he was "depressed" or why he was "in pain". Or if his wife had confirmed that he was "depressed" or "in pain". As I recall, she said he was "under stress". That's a lot different. It also would have looked more genuine if he had mentioned his daughter by name. Or if he didn't write the time of day at the top of it. Or if his check-out receipt didn't indicate that he had already left the motel. So ... to cut to the chase: I agree with you that this 'suicide note' looks suspicious. But I don't buy into any blanket generalizations. Sometimes the ones committing the act think very much about the people they will hurt. Everybody's different. But the note is only part of the puzzle. And I think we agree that this looks like a murder. It also seems like the police were looking to cover it up. No photos? Photos! No evidence of foul play? Big bruises! No blood on the towel? Lots of red drops on the towel! And so on. Not stonewalling? But not answering any questions either! My oh my! One more thing, Horkus. Condolences.

COMMENT #102 [Permalink]

... horkus said on 3/8/2005 @ 10:30 pm PT...





#101 Winter Very well. Your entitled to you opinions. I won't harp on the note thing. It's too much to go into. But a reminder. Every generalization has it's exception to the rule, there are no blanket statements that I've made. As in the Jon Benet Ramsey case. You don't usually find a body and a ransom note in the same place. But as I've said, there are exceptions to the rule. Didn't understand your response, but peace anyways.

COMMENT #103 [Permalink]

... american woman said on 3/8/2005 @ 10:36 pm PT...





Timeline that needs to be explained: Sun 06/29/03

========

18:44 Reservation receipt for motel room generated. Mon 06/30/03

========

05:15 Lemme leaves for work.

06:15 Lemme makes call from pay phone at Hwy 19 and Interstate 10..

06:54 Motel credit card receipt with Lemme's signature.

18:45 Lemme checked into hotel. Tue 07/01/03

========

08:10 Time on suicide note.

11:00 Time Lemme was supposed to check out.

13:06 Lemme found dead. Lemme could not have signed reciept at 6:54 am on 6/30/03. Why? We know that at 6:15 am he made a phone call from Hwy 19 and Interstate 10. According to Mapquest, this is aprox 1 hour and 15 minutes away from the Motel. Investigators need to absolutely nail down those receipt dates. If they are correct, something is fishy.

COMMENT #104 [Permalink]

... mmiixx said on 3/8/2005 @ 10:45 pm PT...





conspiracy theorists ,whats "past tense" for that ? One other thing about the "suicided note" is the underlining of first, the word "family" and then at end the double underlining, of "I love you" .This seems odd to me.Also in another crime scene picture (http://www.insider-magazine.com/unrestricted_warfare.htm) which show the diary in which the "suicided note" was written ,(you must assume these picture were taken before the crime scene was corrupted by the investigators and coroners staff etc.) I notice that the pen used to write the "suicided note" is placed in a position that normally only a left-handed person would do (I�m left-handed) .Not a smoking gun but interesting just the same , try it ,write a note and put the pen down ��..well ?

COMMENT #105 [Permalink]

... laura said on 3/8/2005 @ 11:03 pm PT...





It always comes down to who gains from this suicide scenario. Keep up the good work Brad! You and Clint are in my prayers.Watch your backs. I love this site I have learned so much from the stories as well as the comments. Great bunch of patriots!

COMMENT #106 [Permalink]

... Wooly Bully said on 3/8/2005 @ 11:08 pm PT...





#71 Absolutley! Where are his files on the case??? Did he not back anything up in a computer??? And what else WAS in the day planner??? Is there ANYTHING in it in the future that would state an important meeting or an exciting event he was looking forward to??? Something??? God Bless, I'm praying for the family right after this

COMMENT #107 [Permalink]

... Winter Patriot said on 3/8/2005 @ 11:11 pm PT...





re #103: American Woman: If you have this right, then my comments in #87 are wildly wrong. That could be the case. I've been wrong before. I think I need to look at all this again. Sigh.

COMMENT #108 [Permalink]

... Torqued said on 3/8/2005 @ 11:12 pm PT...





#100--

Please reconsider... violence should never be a justifiable option. Never.

COMMENT #109 [Permalink]

... Brad said on 3/8/2005 @ 11:29 pm PT...





I don't have my notes in front of me right now, but American Woman is almost exactly right. Including the distances she mentions from when Lemme called his supervisor at 6:15am to say he'd be late. Those were details I didn't report in the story today, so it's clear she's working from some of the same police info that I was. I have a question about only one line in timeline, this one from 06/30/03: "18:45 Lemme checked into hotel." Where do you get that one from? Either I missed it, or I'm too tired to remember. Both could very well be true. Beyond that, you guys have been asking some great questions! Some of which I can answer, and some of which I can't. I will try to do so in a follow-up post tomorrow. Thanks all for many very kind words!

COMMENT #110 [Permalink]

... Fred said on 3/8/2005 @ 11:32 pm PT...





Brad, There are some facts about this case I am unclear about, besides, "When EXACTLY was the time of death established to be?"... 1) Did his wife ever get the cell phone bill showing what phone numbers he had calls with that day, June 30? Surely the Police asked for that!? Would his wife be kind enough to provide that for "background"? 2) In the photo at the hotel, the bed looks made, untouched. So he couldn't have slept there that night, checked out, and then returned to a cleaned room. Or was it a two bed room? 3) Did he sneak back into the room after checking out? How could he have, THE LOCK ON THE DOOR is a card reader. Did he request 2 key cards? Or did he check-in again? If so, where is the second check-in slip. Surely the police have that? 4) His shirt is hanging in the closet. All his accesories, including his tie, are neatly set on the counter top. Everything is in it's right place, exept for his shoes. Why wouldn't he put them near the closet? Seems an odd place for someone who is being so ritualistic. 5) The red "to go" coffee cup is next to the TV. Which means he set it down before laying on the bed or sitting at the desk. If he was done with the cup why didn't he throw it away? 5) The bottled water is also next to the TV. The bottle seems to be half full. He brings 2 beverages into a hotel room and leaves them there? Why? Was he double fisting? Did he bring the drinks into the room at two separte times? If he was done with it, again, wouldn't he have thrown it away, afterall, he seems to be a very neat person? 6) Doesn't the fact that he was investigating a major scandal naturally turn the case into a murder investigation? What are the standard protocols? 7) Surely the investigators asked to see the video surveillance tapes of his check in, and check out, and copy them? That would help establish his times/dates of entry/departure, since there was such an obviously flawed date on the receipts? 8) So in June 30 (Monday), 2003, the price of a room for one occupant of Raymond Lemme go for $49.00/night. Why are the prices now $33.00/night in 2005? Am I missing something there?

COMMENT #111 [Permalink]

... Winter Patriot said on 3/8/2005 @ 11:33 pm PT...





Thanks to you, too, Brad. Best wishes as always.

COMMENT #112 [Permalink]

... Fred said on 3/8/2005 @ 11:40 pm PT...





American Woman, I believe (assume) that the "reservation receipt" date came from the same computer date as did the bankcard check out receipt. The Police theory goes that BOTH the June 29 date and June 30 date SHOULD REALLY READ June 30 and July 1. But unless the Police confirm that, officially, WITH EVIDENCE, then they are dismissing a MAJOR piece of evidence on those receipts. What we need are 2 timelines. One which is backed up by EVIDENCE (which you showed), and one that is the POLICE theory. Too tired to do that now...

COMMENT #113 [Permalink]

... gwbmalecheerleader said on 3/9/2005 @ 1:08 am PT...





Quickly for 108: Thomas Jefferson left written disagreement with you. It's called a Constitutional Right, and it wasn't fer huntin' varmints. At least, not 4 legged ones. And as a Liberal that loves his Constitutional Rights, I'll always remind you of that fact. Now, Brad, let's play connect the dots: This was a whistle-blower investigation? I am correct? Who benefits from Mr. Lemme's death ( I am not convinced he was murdered, or committed suicide at this early stage)? Now, who recently made the news ( the last two days recent enough news cycle?) by arousing concerns using a Presidential Secrecy Power to CANCEL WHISTLE-BLOWER'S Cases? Who benefits? First visit. Great site. Wish folks would just ignore the trolls from the "Right", speaking to them just encourages the cretans.

COMMENT #114 [Permalink]

... Bando Bling said on 3/9/2005 @ 1:09 am PT...





Who did Mr. Lemme call Hwy 9 & Interstate 10? That might provide a lead. American woman is right, time was too short. Plus it is rush hours. Possible and highly probable that the people who were behind this *suicide* made a calculation error on the "time factor". Not uncommon in 'mob hit'. What would be interesting to observe is how the police dept. is persuing these clues. Have they ignored these details? Are the detectives afraid that this may lead to ............... I guess these are missing pieces of the puzzle we must track closely.

COMMENT #115 [Permalink]

... gwbmalecheerleader said on 3/9/2005 @ 1:17 am PT...





Wait!! Isn't this a case for that female writer, that has that Forensic Coroner, as her heroine, man, it escapes me, send this to her to investigate. I do believe I read she actually funded a Forensic lab for the city of Richmond, and she thinks she solved the Jack the Ripper case!! Appeal to her ego. (100 to 1 she's a repub) Frame it as a case where an experienced woman dectective is being blamed by "leftist bloggers" as suspiciously inept...... Man, I am devious. Feels good. Watch out, kkkkarl, we're after you, and if we get just a tiny fingerhold, well, if you think your boyfriend jefjim is a "bulldog" wait until we chew you up and spit your bones out. Wanted war? With the legions of morons on YOUR side, and the facade of msm falling, and losing your propagana efficy... You're in deep dodo, doughboy.

COMMENT #116 [Permalink]

... gwbmalecheerleader said on 3/9/2005 @ 1:20 am PT...





Bando, WHY did the watch stop in a suicide? Earlier poster caught that, I thought Hecule Poirot had shown up. VERY odd, that.

COMMENT #117 [Permalink]

... gwbmalecheerleader said on 3/9/2005 @ 1:24 am PT...





And WHO let the "flashcards" out? Perhaps they deserve an apple?

COMMENT #118 [Permalink]

... Robert Lockwood Mills said on 3/9/2005 @ 1:24 am PT...





Maybe I'm missing something. But what difference does it make whether the motel's machine was a day behind or not? The fact is, the last entry for Raymond Lemme at the motel is for his CHECKING OUT. If he had committed suicide in that motel room, regardless of the date or time, the last entry would have been for his CHECKING IN. Unless my facts are wrong, for Lemme to have committed suicide there it means that he snuck back into a motel he had already checked out of for the purpose of killing himself. To believe that one must be a real conspiracy theorist.

COMMENT #119 [Permalink]

... american woman said on 3/9/2005 @ 1:33 am PT...





Bando asked: "Who did Mr. Lemme call Hwy 9 & Interstate 10? That might provide a lead. " His boss, to tell him he'd be in late (per sworn affidavit of boss, Robert Clift).

COMMENT #120 [Permalink]

... Disgusted said on 3/9/2005 @ 3:52 am PT...





OMG! this is so gross and evil..and it leads straight back to the neo-con death cult Bushs (like most political corruption does these days!)

What the hell are we going to do to save our country from these horrific people? Even the Clintons :O are falling under their spell more every day! Golf with both Bushs? Excuse me while I barf. :angry:

COMMENT #121 [Permalink]

... Teresa said on 3/9/2005 @ 4:04 am PT...





The note seems ridiculous to me. It doesn't sound depressed. And the handwriting doesn't look right. It looks more like a thank you note. Or "I've run out to get some milk... be right back."

COMMENT #122 [Permalink]

... Teresa said on 3/9/2005 @ 4:20 am PT...





And solving crimes or being part of a huge breaking story is exciting, adrenalin producing, and addictive. One waits in great anticipation to see what will happen next. Not at all the prelude to suicide.

COMMENT #123 [Permalink]

... Robert Lockwood Mills said on 3/9/2005 @ 5:05 am PT...





Has any evidence surfaced to indicate a reason for Ray Lemme to have gone to Valdosta on his own?

If I were investigating the case, that would be my starting point. Lemme was working on a matter involving the Florida Department of Transportation, and people in the state government in Tallahassee. According to Clint Curtis' affidavit, he told Curtis he was close to breaking the case open. He told his wife he was working on a big case, which confirms the affidavit. So why go to Valdosta? If there was someone there who could have helped him, that would be a reason. But who? Nobody has come forward, and surely someone who sincerely wanted to help Lemme would have done so by now, recognizing that the "suicide" was a fraud. The greater likelihood is 1) Somebody lured him to Valdosta with a promise to help with key information, then murdered him and set it up to look like a suicide, or 2) He was murdered in Florida and his body taken to Valdosta to escape the autopsy requirement. But #2 could be ruled out if it could be established that it was Ray Lemme who checked in at the motel and signed the credit card slip. That's why testimony from the check-in clerk is needed. Lemme's family says the handwriting is his, and it does match the "suicide note." So #1 looks like the most logical guess. In any event, the physical evidence seems to rule out a suicide.

COMMENT #124 [Permalink]

... KestrelBrighteyes said on 3/9/2005 @ 5:55 am PT...





One thing - although it seems odd that someone would write a time on a suicide note, that detail may or may not be significant. Anyone who has ever worked government contracts knows you bill for time spent on a contract up to the 1/10th of an hour, and after a few years it becomes habit to time and date-stamp everything for your records - even personal notes. It took years for me to get out of the habit of grabbing a pen and paper to take notes whenever the phone rang. Although it seems odd in context, as someone else pointed out, he seems to have been a man who paid meticulous attention to detail. With that in mind.. Was he in the habit of time-stamping his personal notes? Could it have been a way of flagging attention in hopes of investigation? Or could it have been an intentionally misleading piece of evidence put there by someone who was already practiced at immitating his handwriting? *** Also, as far as checking out of the hotel...when I travel with someone, it's not uncommon for one of us to go check out and grab some coffee while the other finishes packing - that way there is someone in the room to open the door even though the keys have been returned, and we're still gone before checkout time. It's possible the person he was supposed to meet was already in the room that morning, and gave him instructions to go check out and then come back to the room. That would also explain the presence of two beverages. All I'm saying is that there are scenarios where he may indeed have checked out and then returned to the room, in which case the reciepts won't be that helpful.

COMMENT #125 [Permalink]

... big dan said on 3/9/2005 @ 6:12 am PT...





Lemme must've had hardcopy evidence of his case. Someone must find this. The fact that his portfolio of evidence is gone, means he didn't commit suicide. If his evidence portfolio was there in the room, I would definitely believe it was suicide. Where is it? And I'm sure Lemme shared some, if not all, of his investigation with someone else...I have a feeling someone's going to come forward sooner or later who spoke with Lemme about his investigation. We must find his notes from his investigation, and anyone who spoke with him at all about the investigation.

COMMENT #126 [Permalink]

... KestrelBrighteyes said on 3/9/2005 @ 6:22 am PT...





Um..I don't mean to sound paranoid, BUT... We should assume that whatever we type is also being read by people who may be deeply involved in this, and with this many people asking these kinds of questions, they're probably not nearly as confident as they were before about getting away with it. Just a reminder, for what it's worth. Brad, Winter Patriot, etc - Is anybody saving hard copies of these posts to hand over to any investigators who might take on the case, in case this site just "goes away" one day?

COMMENT #127 [Permalink]

... Pale Rider said on 3/9/2005 @ 6:23 am PT...





#100 - Aren't you Democrats the ones that are always telling us that guns are bad and trying to ban them? Geeez, do you even know which end of the weapon the bullet comes out of?

COMMENT #128 [Permalink]

... Potemkin said on 3/9/2005 @ 6:25 am PT...





I'm just curious, did Mr. Lemme always begin writing in his notebook with the time? He was an investigator, so I would think he would always mark the time in his notes. Fred, (#110, question The room rates in Valdosta may very well be seasonal. The quotes you are getting right now may not be the same as they are in the summer (June 30). I know Georgia pretty well, born and bred there. South Georgia is a pretty quiet place. Travellers on their way to Florida for summer vacation pass right through Valdosta. Room rates would certainly go up in the summer. That could be the explanation.

COMMENT #129 [Permalink]

... blue said on 3/9/2005 @ 6:27 am PT...





Some thoughts on the note. The suicide note was photographed "skewed" to resemble the downward slant that a deeply depressed and suicidal persons writing exhibits. When the note is rotated in photoshop to adjust the lined paper to its proper position the writing does not indicate depression.

COMMENT #130 [Permalink]

... Pale Rider said on 3/9/2005 @ 6:29 am PT...





#89 - "Ray Lemme, psychic investigator." Ha, ha, ha, ha,.....oh, my sides are hurting...ha, ha, ha, ha. You lunatics are placing your faith in a "psychic investigator"? Oh my, I haven't laughed this hard in quite a while.

COMMENT #131 [Permalink]

... Robert Lockwood Mills said on 3/9/2005 @ 6:37 am PT...





You might be right about the checkout process, Kestrel. Under your scenario, does the following

become the only logical sequence of events? 1) Lemme spends the night at the motel with a guy who promises to help him on the case in the morning (of July 1). Or possibly he meets the guy for breakfast, and the guy follows him back to the motel to continue the conversation. This could have been somebody from the Florida D.O.T. (or hired by them) who tells Lemme on the phone, "It's too dangerous to talk about this in Tallahassee." So Lemme goes to Valdosta, where it's "safer" to talk. 2) After he checks out and returns to the room, his "friend" (and maybe others) double-cross him and force him to sign the suicide note under threat of killing his wife and daughter. They strangle him (discoloration of neck) and slash his wrists with his own razor blade (wearing gloves, of course, so only his own prints are found on the blade). They then leave the motel quietly and disappear. All we need now is Lt. Columbo. I can imagine him speaking to Feeney about the case outside the Capitol, being satisfied that Feeney is telling the truth, then stopping on the Capitol steps, going back up and saying, "Uh, Congressman...there's just one more thing that bothers me here."

COMMENT #132 [Permalink]

... Miss Persistent said on 3/9/2005 @ 6:50 am PT...





I could see where Lemme's omission of mention of his daughter might have been a way of protecting her. The very first thing I noticed (but ignored) when looking at the scene was that while everything was sooo neat and tidy, the shirt was not. If he was obsessively neat and tidy he would have buttoned the shirt at the collar when he hung it up. (I had a boyfriend like that once.) What kind of watch is it, how old, waterproof, damaged in any way? The watch stopping is so cliche. I defintely need autopsy notes. Toxicology, water in lungs, coffee in stomach, etc. I'm guessing that since metabolism stops, these artifacts would still be present. Re #117, we need Kay Scarpetta

COMMENT #133 [Permalink]

... cheryl said on 3/9/2005 @ 7:01 am PT...





Teresa #124,

And would you call your boss to say you were going to be in late if you were planning to kill yourself?

COMMENT #134 [Permalink]

... cheryl said on 3/9/2005 @ 7:04 am PT...





Oops sorry. My bad. Obviously I'm not a crime sleuth.

COMMENT #135 [Permalink]

... Kryten42 said on 3/9/2005 @ 7:04 am PT...





COMMENT #132 [link]

...Pale Rider said on 3/9/2005 @ 6:29am PT... #89 - "Ray Lemme, psychic investigator." Ha, ha, ha, ha,.....oh, my sides are hurting...ha, ha, ha, ha. You lunatics are placing your faith in a "psychic investigator"? Oh my, I haven't laughed this hard in quite a while. Ahhh... But that is not nearly as hysterical as you following an illegally elected President that has a criminal conviction, is a coward and went AWOL, and whose daughters all have criminal convictions also! A man who claimes he "talks to god"! How psychic do you want to get? LMAO My question is... does God answer him back, or does his own voice simply echo in his empty head? A president that is bankrupting the nation. Do you even have a clue what is happening right under your nose? America will be in recession within a year. Japan is already talking to China about selling it's share of the US debt, if that happens, then China will own a big chunk of the USA! All is has to do then is threaten to sell a tiny part of it in Euros, and it will then cost you $10 to buy an apple! I truly hope you *are* having a good laugh, because it will end soon. But you will have the memory... enjoy! Just to stay on topic now, after my previous post, I rechecked the info I have on Floyed. She appears far too experienced and too well trained to have made mistakes. So, either she didn't do her job on purpose, or she did do her job, and it's being kept secret.

COMMENT #136 [Permalink]

... Robert Lockwood Mills said on 3/9/2005 @ 7:20 am PT...





Regarding Ms. Floyd: I would suggest that moving from the Valdosta P.D. to a college professorship is a career upgrade in her eyes. She's undoubtedly smart, but scared at this point, and I wouldn't blame her. When the Valdosta P.D. reopened the case in December, then quickly closed it again (after talking to "someone" at the Florida D.O.T.!), that was a clue that something is rotten in Denmark, folks. Suddenly the chief doesn't want to talk any more, and the former investigator-turned-professor doesn't want to talk, and why won't those liberals in the blue states let this go away? I e-mailed Bill Keller at the New York Times a thumbnail summary of the known facts to date and asked him to assign an investigative reporter to the case. Anybody want to set the odds against the chance of a positive reply?

COMMENT #137 [Permalink]

... Infernal Optimist said on 3/9/2005 @ 7:24 am PT...





#15: I totally agree. The underlined "family" jumped off the page at me. Could this be his way of signaling that his actions were under duress - emphasize family, yet not mention his beloved only daughter at all? Also I agree that this final note has a very unnatural detached sound to it and is incredibly brief as if it were a race against time. The double-spaced lines also seem odd, but, who knows, that may have been his style of writing.

COMMENT #138 [Permalink]

... big dan said on 3/9/2005 @ 7:29 am PT...





...some other thoughts... On the receipt, the "y" in Raymond has a huge loop in it; all the "y"'s in the suicide note are different, with small loops. Where do you get one of those old fashioned razors from? I couldn't get one, if you offered me money. If he was alone, he would've placed the blade he cut himself with, in that place in the picture. With all that blood caused by the razor cut, probably all over his hands, why is there no blood pools or drips around where the razor lies? Someone who just "cracked open a big case" wouldn't commit suicide. It doesn't make sense! Obviously, the huge bruise on the side of his neck is not typical of a suicide. And, the belt & towel appear to be placed there later, because the towel has not absorbed the blood dripping down the side of the tub! Maybe, the bruises on his neck are from an assailant choking him with the belt. Then the assailant placed down the towel and put the belt on top of it, afterwards. Was the belt checked for fingerprints? Were there footprints under the towel? Was the room checked for bloody footprints? I'm not an expert, but these are things I would've checked or noticed in seconds...

COMMENT #139 [Permalink]

... Nunya said on 3/9/2005 @ 7:37 am PT...





"#89 - "Ray Lemme, psychic investigator." Ha, ha, ha, ha,.....oh, my sides are hurting...ha, ha, ha, ha. You lunatics are placing your faith in a "psychic investigator"? Oh my, I haven't laughed this hard in quite a while." Bucket Rider, you are laughing at your own stupidity. I was being facetious. Big word, look it up. Has nothing to do with the face eating aliens who anally probed you last night. Your original post: ":rolleyes:Just another pathetic liberal who couldn't deal with the fact that President Bush won the election fair and square." Is very funny considering Lemme's death occurred over a year before the election. So if he killed himself for that reason, he had to be a psychic. You moron, go play with a loaded gun and point it at your head and put yourself out of your misery. Lot's of liberals can shoot a helluvalot better than you can read or think. Yes, Jefferson and many others have made remarks about the duty of every citizen to take up arms against tyrants, and they were referring to any tyrants, even ones produced by their own governments. Jefferson said that the tree of liberty should be watered in blood every 20 years. Something to that effect. Let's hope it doesn't come to that.

COMMENT #140 [Permalink]

... Dredd said on 3/9/2005 @ 7:38 am PT...





Lemme was probably drowned in the water in the bath tub. They held him under until he suffocated, sucked water to his lungs, and died. He was very dead but still very warm when the murders then immediately cut his arm so the blood would drain into the water. This makes it look like lotsa blood drained. If the Valdosta Police had not been incompetent or corrupt they would have seen the need for an autopsy to show the real cause of death.

COMMENT #141 [Permalink]

... Robert Lockwood Mills said on 3/9/2005 @ 7:43 am PT...





I think he was strangled, but I doubt it was with that belt. Why would a murderer leave the murder weapon around, when he could have folded it into his pocket? I'm no forensic pathologist, but I suspect if the belt had been the murder weapon, from the murderer's perspective it could have been compared to the marks on Lemme's neck in such a way as to establish the fact. Maybe not, but why would a hired murderer take such a risk?

COMMENT #142 [Permalink]

... Nunya said on 3/9/2005 @ 7:53 am PT...





Just a point regarding Floyd. College professorship is gilding the lily a bit. Valdosta Tech? It's a technical college. I bet she doesn't even have more than an AA degree herself, if even that. Administration of Justice is what it used to be called here in CA. If they are calling it Criminal Justice now, which wouldn't surprise me, they are again gilding the lily. When I majored in CJ awhile ago (it's only been specific discipline since the 1970s) it was part of the behaviorial and social sciences dept. and only taught at 4 year universities. But things have changed for the worse on most campuses. Football and business. Waste of time and money. Having said that, and without looking into it too much, you do learn the job by doing it, however, Valdosta, GA is probably not the kind of place you would get OTJ like LA, NY, or Chicago. In other words, calling her a detective may be gilding the lily a bit too.

COMMENT #143 [Permalink]

... Bejammin075 said on 3/9/2005 @ 7:56 am PT...





Great work Brad. My thoughts:

If the Georgia police closed the investigation and believe it was suicide, then there's nothing to hide, and no reason for them not to tell you who it was in FDOT that helped them decide to close the investigation. The more I think about this, the more I believe finding out who that person was at FDOT is very very VERY key to this investigation. There's 2 possibilities: either Lemme committed suicide, or he didn't.

Questions I'd ask the FDOT person:

When and how did you find out the investigation was reopened?

Why are you so concerned about the investigation of Lemme's death?

If you believe Lemme committed suicide, and Lemme was your friend, or at least not your enemy, and it's POSSIBLE that he was murdered, why would you want the investigation closed? If Lemme POSSIBLY was murdered, wouldn't you want Lemme's family to get justice? Wouldn't you want Lemme's family to get closure?

Why do you, as an employee of Florida, have any jurisdiction/authority/power to close an investigation in GEORGIA? Why did the Georgia police listen to you? Lets see here: Lemme might have been murdered for something that he discovered at FDOT and elsewhere that went "all the way to the top". If Lemme was murdered, there are 2 kinds of people at FDOT: innocent people and corrupt people. The person at FDOT who called the Georgia police is one of those 2 kinds of people - innocent or corrupt. Which kind of person would be most likely - the most motivated - to try to close the suicide/murder investigation? Innocent or corrupt? I think an innocent person at FDOT would be very unlikely to intervene in the murder case of Mr. Lemme. This FDOT person OBVIOUSELY has something to hide or cover up.

COMMENT #144 [Permalink]

... nunya said on 3/9/2005 @ 8:02 am PT...





I didn't see water in the bathtub, which is usually why you choose to do it that way, warm water makes it easier, more comfortable. Surely you all remember Frankie Five Angels and Tom H (Robert Duvall) Don Vito's consigliere and their discussion before Frankie's testimony, which he never showed up for. The Godfather? See that again. So just for speculation's sake. he could have committed suicide, like Frank Pentangeles, because he was convinced it was in his best interests. One poster on the original post said the motel was a flop house near strip joints. Why did he stay in such a cheesey motel? Near strip clubs? I think it's highly suspicious. But keep an open mind and don't give the locals down there more credit than they deserve.

COMMENT #145 [Permalink]

... Robert Lockwood Mills said on 3/9/2005 @ 8:10 am PT...





I agree it's vital to know who at the Florida D.O.T. killed the reopened investigation, because there is no benign explanation for his having done so (such as protecting national security). There must be a way to compel the Chief of Police in Valdosta to reveal who it was, and why he took orders from somebody in Florida. Freedom of Information Act? Class-action suit? Congressional hearing? Since this involves the possibility that a dead body was carried across state lines, it should mean Congress can involve itself. Are you there, John Conyers? Anybody from the Georgia delegation?

COMMENT #146 [Permalink]

... Bejammin075 said on 3/9/2005 @ 8:10 am PT...





Fucking rediculous! Georgia police say the equivalent of: "We re-opened the suicide/murder investigation because people brought to our attention many unanswered questions, new information, many suspicious things, and showed us many mistakes in the original investigation. If Mr. Lemme was murdered, it had something to do with people FDOT. However, the MURDER SUSPECTS at FDOT assured us that THERE'S NOTHING TO SEE HERE, so we promptly closed the investigation.

COMMENT #147 [Permalink]

... lewis said on 3/9/2005 @ 8:12 am PT...





comment 133: Yes, we do need Lt. Columbo. I have been thinking that all along. How we he investigate this case? Obviously, he would follow Feeney around for weeks under the guise of "just trying to tie up some loose ends." I do remember one thing Columbo said in an episode, I believe it was the one that starred John Casavetes. He said, "It's just me. I don't know, I guess I've been doing this for too long." (or something to that effect). "But whenever I hear about a suicide, I think murder." It is probably true that a good number of "suicides" are actually murders. We know police generally don't have the training to properly investigate these cases. But what else would Columbo be doing on this case right now? Certainly, he'd want to see all the receipts. So he'd hang out at the motel a bit, examine the machines and how they worked. Then he'd probably take a drive to the place where Lemme made a phone call from. He'd time the placing of the call and the drive to the motel, and compare it to the check-in time on the receipt. He would certainly look at the photos and condition of the body. He'd talk to the family and co-workers. Ask to see his work files. But what would be the final, most important piece of evidence? Hmmm... If we figure that out, maybe we can crack this case...

COMMENT #148 [Permalink]

... Nunya said on 3/9/2005 @ 8:14 am PT...





Maybe I'm mistaken, but that's his grey slacks. No water in that tub. Very odd. Not everyone is aware of the old Roman practice of getting in a warm bath and bleeding out. And men usually choose a gun or hanging. Women are more likely to slash their wrists or take pills. And if you know enough to bleed out in a warm bath, you usually know enough to slit lines longitudinally, up and down the armin the direction of the veins, not across them. No autopsy, no tox screen? This was bungled from the get go. Maybe because of the motel, a hooker flop, if that's true. These fools just decided what it was before they looked. Now it's CYA time.

COMMENT #149 [Permalink]

... nunya said on 3/9/2005 @ 8:21 am PT...





Dredd, 142, no water Robert, 143, taking the murder weapon would kind of rule out suicide. What would need to be done is to exhume the body and perform an autopsy and that is possible only with a court order and the permission of next of kin, and an autopsy should have been done in this case.

COMMENT #150 [Permalink]

... Winter Patriot said on 3/9/2005 @ 8:25 am PT...





OT alert! Yesterday, during a heated and OT discussion, I challenged somebody who had made an anti-semitic remark, and I also challenged somebody else who had called it anti-semitic. In doing so, I unwittingly offended people. Brad has explained to me [privately] the error I made there; I had not fully understood one of the posts to which I was responding. Now, sadder but wiser, I must go OT again. To Ilene and to Adam and to Brad and anyone else who was offended by my previous post, I apologize; please understand that my comment was written in ignorance and not in malice. I never wish to offend anyone, and certainly not my friends and fellow-posters here. I didn't want to go OT again in this excellent thread, but now that I understand what I have done wrong, I cannot simply leave it that way. We now return to your regularly scheduled thread.

COMMENT #151 [Permalink]

... nunya said on 3/9/2005 @ 8:30 am PT...





And strangling would be quite apparent to even a rookie. If you are dead and someone cuts you open a trained investigator should be able to spot that. No heartbeat, no blood being pumped, you don't bleed out that quick and at a certain point gravity takes over, unless the cuts are on the lowest part of the body, blood will just sit there in the body. This was one of those cases that got written up as what it looked like so they could all go out and have a beer. Exhumation and Autopsy may provide answers.

COMMENT #152 [Permalink]

... nunya said on 3/9/2005 @ 8:34 am PT...





Yes, we had the Protocols of Elders of Zion here yesterday. Not you WP. A totally debunked piece of propaganda but great reading if you are convinced that the UN will occupy this country and enforce a new world order with black helicopters. Shit! I wish they would!

COMMENT #153 [Permalink]

... Dredd said on 3/9/2005 @ 8:36 am PT...





There is an interesting discussion of suicide methods and what to look for when investigating them (link here). Notice how the slashing method is mentioned way down and is a rare method. It also mentions hesitation marks most often observed in slashing suicide, which were not found in this case. Also it mentions how difficult it is to do it that way. In another place it mentions how some subconscious movements take place and the body can move a long way ... even after death. Nunya #151 You mean there was no water in the bath tub ... it was half full of blood?

COMMENT #154 [Permalink]

... Dredd said on 3/9/2005 @ 8:53 am PT...





Another interesting discussion of suicide indicates that "you should treat all apparent suicides as homicides at first" (italics in original) (link here). What is interesting about this link is that it is part of an educational process at a university. It would seem that the police officer (Ms. Floyd) who did the initial investigation would have known of these investigative norms, and probably teaches these norms at her new job. Why was the Lemme crime scene not treated like a murder investigation first as is normal? Furthermore, the article goes on to say about suicide notes: "With suicides, you may or may not find a note left behind for loved ones, but if you do, you should treat it as a questioned document" (bold and italics added). The document was assumed to be unquestionably factual in the Lemme case! Bad technique. Doesn't the fact that non-normal techniques were used in the Lemme case support our suspicion?

COMMENT #155 [Permalink]

... cheryl said on 3/9/2005 @ 9:04 am PT...





With all the interest in this story and the many new posters I see here it seems like a good time to remind everyone that it costs money to keep Brad going in his awesome work. Please donate (a little or a lot) today.

COMMENT #156 [Permalink]

... casolaro said on 3/9/2005 @ 9:07 am PT...





Casolaro shared information with many reporters around the world and interviewed numerous CIA/DIA/DEA/NSA operatives in his quest for the truth. He called me one evening and sounded very excited. He said that he was going to meet a source at the Sheraton Inn in Martinsburg, West Virginia. He claimed that the source was very close to Senator Byrd, the patron of the CIA. He announced that this source was going to "give me [the solution to] the Inslaw case on a silver platter". Two days later I received a call from a mutual friend who was crying. She told me she had just talked with the owners of the Inslaw Corporation, Bill and Nancy Hamilton. They were in shock and told her that Danny Casolaro had been found dead in his room at the Sheraton Inn. His naked body was found in a bathtub filled with bloody water. Both wrists had been slashed to the bone numerous times, drugs were found in his body, a 'suicide' note allegedly written in his own handwriting was found nearby. His clothes were found neatly folded on the bed. All of his countless files and reporter