Marchers, armed protesters face off at March for Our Lives

Andrew Nicla | The Arizona Republic

Show Caption Hide Caption Second Amendment supporter shares opinion during the March for Our Lives Stan Leach, of Buckeye, said he doesn't want his gun rights taken away from him. He was one of the people protesting at the March For Our Lives at the Arizona State Capitol on March 24, 2018. Cheryl Evans/azcentral.com

PHOENIX — Thousands of people gathered at the Arizona Capitol on Saturday, joining hundreds of concurrent marches across the U.S. protesting gun violence in schools and calling for gun-control laws.

In the middle of the Phoenix marchers were a few dozen protesters, some carrying AR-15 rifles and other weapons and others waving signs in support of the Second Amendment.

Throughout the morning, members of both groups faced off — some yelling at each other, others participating in more conversational debates.

According to the Arizona Department of Public Safety, the march crowd totaled 15,000. There were no arrests, they reported.

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Likewise, in Salt Lake City, about 8,000 protesters collided with 1,000 pro-gun counter-demonstrators, exchanged shouts but remaining peaceful, according to police.

Utah, a state that also allows open-carry, hosted some in the pro-gun rally carrying pistols on their hips and AR-style weapons slung over their shoulders, "because I can. It's our right," Mark Stewart, a counter protester told the Salt Lake Tribune.

In Helena, Mont., a March for Our Guns counter event drew about 150 people. Attendees held signs that said "No guns, No freedom" and "Montana treasures God, guns and family."

Mike Opie, 32, of Helena, said he felt sorry for the Florida victims, most of whom were high school students.

“I’m upset kids got shot,” said Opie, who said he served with in the Marines in Iraq. “But to take guns away is not constitutional.”

About 150 attend March for our Guns rally in Helena. #mtnews pic.twitter.com/aYO0zEJFwv — Phil Drake (@GFTrib_PDrake) March 24, 2018

In Los Angeles, there were only about a dozen counter protesters. They were dwarfed by more than 15,000 people as they were protected by police along the march route.

Counter protest so far is about 12 people at 1st and Spring. They are behind police tape as the main march starts to approach. pic.twitter.com/fOjUo4H9Nx — Julia Wick (@sherlyholmes) March 24, 2018

Hours after an anti-gun violence rally in Lansing, Mich., a pro-Second Amendment group hosted speakers on the Michigan Capitol's steps.

"If we do not assert our rights, we will lose them," said state Sen. Patrick Colbeck, a Republican candidate for governor,

"Where was all this when we were having all these shootings years ago?" asked Hope Coleman, 40, who said she is affiliated with the Patriot movement for President Trump in Phoenix. "Why should everyone get punished because of someone else's negligence?"

In Phoenix, marcher Sharon Bedney, 77, of Mesa engaged with some of the protesters.

"If you can't shoot, you can't teach?" she asked in response to a protester. "Teachers are there to teach. They don't need the added pressure."

William Cairnes, 63, of Phoenix, a U.S. Navy veteran, argued with some of the protesters carrying guns.

"We want rational control, that's what we want," he said. "This is happening far too often. If we can control their means for mass shootings, shouldn't we at least look into it?"

Casey Goble, 19, was among the counterprotesters at the march. He said he was carrying an unloaded AR-15 to make a statement and to exercise his right to do so.

He said he supports some measures of gun reform, such as stricter background checks to keep criminals and those with mental-health issues from accessing guns. But he said he came because he supports the Second Amendment.

"I support their (protesters') right to have a gun even if they don't like it," he said, saying he brought his unloaded AR-15 "just in case."

Jamila Rahim, 20, an Arizona State University sophomore, came to the march with friends.

"I get that this is our Second Amendment," she said. "We're not trying to revoke it or take anything away. We just want common-sense gun laws."

She said she was surprised to find so many like-minded people at the march.

"Being here is reassuring," she said, adding that if gun reform doesn't happen, "we'll be back."

'Removing guns is not the way to keep kids safe' Lesa Antone, of Phoenix, talks about why she's against any form of increased gun laws at the Arizona State Capitol on March 24, 2018. Brianna Arreguin-Malloy /azcentral.com

But Rahim said there was a disconnect between those like-minded marchers and the handful of counterprotesters. She feared people may have missed an opportunity to have one-on-one conversations to further discussions on such a controversial issue.

People may be reluctant to have those conversations because they're "scared of what they're going to hear," she said.

"Coming out here, we're kind of preaching to the choir anyways," Rahim said. "But going up to them, talking with them, that's where the real change begins."

Van Gutier, 29, said he was there "standing up for the Bill of Rights."

"You're playing the blame game," he said to a marcher. "I don't want the government coming up with definitions of who is mentally ill. The government overreaches. The government cares about power. It will try to retain that power by disarming its citizens."

He said banning guns won't stop mass shootings.

“We need to take ownership over ourselves," he said.

Protesters, marchers face off at March For Our Lives Protesters and marchers faced off and debated gun control at the March For Our Lives at the Arizona State Capitol on March 24, 2018. Derek Hall/azcentral.com

Ken and Linda Bielek, both 76, were among the marchers. They said they were fed up with a lack of progress on the issue of gun control. They said they don't want to "take away anybody's guns," but do want to see universal background checks and assault-rifle bans.

"I don't know of anybody that's saying take away guns from people who have shotguns, a revolver or pistol for home protection or target shooting," Ken Bielek said. "We're not asking the politicians, we're demanding that they ban assault weapons. There's gun violence happening every day. We're fed up with it."

At one point, Ken Bielek pulled out his pocket Constitution. As a U.S. Army veteran, he said he supports the Second Amendment. But he said the founders couldn't have predicted the rapid change in gun technology.

"They had muskets back then," he said. "Today, they're killing machines."

Contributing: Nick Penzenstadler, USA TODAY, Phil Drake, Great Falls (Mont.) Tribun, Matt Mencarini, Lansing (Mich.) State Journal