ChickenLips Profile Blog Joined May 2010 2912 Posts Last Edited: 2010-11-12 00:56:57 #2 What an awesome app cant wait for the release of Z and T versions ❤Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ✿

Dionyseus Profile Blog Joined December 2004 United States 2068 Posts #3 Good idea to start a separate thread, it was going to get confusing with people posting stuff about both yours and Lomilar's app on the same thread. 9/5/10 P acct: NA D 10,683 651pts 69w56L http://sc2ranks.com/char/us/290365/LetoAtreides T acct: NA D 16,137 553pts 70w67L http://sc2ranks.com/char/us/1560008/Khrone Z: NA G 16,058 465pts 28w26L http://www.sc2ranks.com/us/1997354/Omnius

DaBears57 Profile Joined December 2009 United States 217 Posts #4



On November 12 2010 09:56 ChickenLips wrote:

What an awesome app cant wait for the release of Z and T versions What an awesome app cant wait for the release of Z and T versions



I think I speak for all protoss players when I say I hope no one makes a Terran version . Sounds good, downloading now.I think I speak for all protoss players when I say I hope no one makes a Terran version

Karliath Profile Blog Joined April 2010 United States 2214 Posts #5 On November 12 2010 09:56 ChickenLips wrote:

What an awesome app cant wait for the release of Z and T versions What an awesome app cant wait for the release of Z and T versions



Lomilar already has a Z version. I guess both of them can now work on a T version? lol Lomilar already has a Z version. I guess both of them can now work on a T version? lol

CarbonTwelve Profile Joined November 2010 Australia 525 Posts Last Edited: 2010-11-12 01:23:40 #6 On November 12 2010 10:09 DaBears57 wrote:

I think I speak for all protoss players when I say I hope no one makes a Terran version . I think I speak for all protoss players when I say I hope no one makes a Terran version



Lol, I hear ya. However, the developer side of my mind will probably take priority, so I expect I'll have a Terran version in the not too distant future.



Incidentally, I've got this grand idea of being able to develop a system that would automatically test build orders against eachother. So for instance, it runs the Protoss version of this app to get the best build order for 5 stalkers and then it builds a custom map with an AI that uses that build order, then runs it against a standard (Very Hard) AI using a standard build order (like a Terran 3rax). Records the results, then repeats the process for 6 stalkers, and so on. Idea being that it would hopefully find certain combinations that due to the timings are particularly strong against common builds.



I expect that something like that is a LONG way down the track though (if it's even possible to implement with any sort of usefulness). Lol, I hear ya. However, the developer side of my mind will probably take priority, so I expect I'll have a Terran version in the not too distant future.Incidentally, I've got this grand idea of being able to develop a system that would automatically test build orders against eachother. So for instance, it runs the Protoss version of this app to get the best build order for 5 stalkers and then it builds a custom map with an AI that uses that build order, then runs it against a standard (Very Hard) AI using a standard build order (like a Terran 3rax). Records the results, then repeats the process for 6 stalkers, and so on. Idea being that it would hopefully find certain combinations that due to the timings are particularly strong against common builds.I expect that something like that is a LONG way down the track though (if it's even possible to implement with any sort of usefulness).

Karliath Profile Blog Joined April 2010 United States 2214 Posts #7 I'm not savvy with how these things work.



Say I put in "1 Dark Templar" with the default time limit. What happens?

Undead_Knight Profile Joined October 2009 Mexico 4 Posts #8



I was wondering how is it that you simulate a build order in a game?

For what I understand, your breeding function is just mutating the best builds. But in order to know who to mutate you need to determine its fitness. This fitness should come from running the build order and looking at the result compared to your stud. Or, how do you calculate the fitness of a build?



I am just applying for a masters in artificial intelligence. This topic interests me a lotI was wondering how is it that you simulate a build order in a game?For what I understand, your breeding function is just mutating the best builds. But in order to know who to mutate you need to determine its fitness. This fitness should come from running the build order and looking at the result compared to your stud. Or, how do you calculate the fitness of a build? A twisted mind is a terrible thing to waste.

HellRoxYa Profile Joined September 2010 Sweden 1614 Posts Last Edited: 2010-11-12 01:44:05 #9 @Karliath

It calculates (or, well, evolves) the fastest way of obtaining your 1 dark templar, from the start of the game. Basically the optimal buildorder to pump out 1 DT.

Kinky Profile Blog Joined September 2008 United States 4088 Posts #10 I put in 30 probes just for a preemptive test and it's telling me to get 4 assimilators after 130386225 runs >_>

Dankmids Profile Blog Joined March 2010 United States 314 Posts #11 Wow this is really cool.



Awesome job! "Alright, Lets poop out a daily" Day9- Daily #203

EliteReplay Profile Blog Joined November 2010 Dominican Republic 913 Posts #12 On November 12 2010 10:49 Kinky wrote:

I put in 30 probes just for a preemptive test and it's telling me to get 4 assimilators after 130386225 runs >_>



i think that a bug he will correct soon, btw can u put a video explaining how to use it well i think that a bug he will correct soon, btw can u put a video explaining how to use it well if play random i can't call any race imba?

rkiga Profile Joined June 2010 United States 44 Posts #13 GJ OP, really looking forward to future releases. Hopefully checkpoints are coming ASAP so I don't lose to 4 lings :D GSL bot activated

Chronicle Profile Joined September 2010 161 Posts Last Edited: 2010-11-12 02:07:50 #14 This is going to aid me to no end. Cheers. Does it take into account chronoboost at all?



Edit - Yep i seems to. Yay. Liquid'Tyler is short for Liquid'Tylenol

kochujang Profile Joined July 2010 Germany 1217 Posts Last Edited: 2010-11-12 02:12:02 #15 Is it possible to include a FE into the optimizer? The effectiveness of dual chronoboost would interest me.

Chronicle Profile Joined September 2010 161 Posts #16 Works great. Only issue I have with it is that when it is fullscreened it does not expand to fullscreen, the build order remains the same size. Would be nice to be able to see builds fullscreened.



IE - Numbers = Result of the app,



1 6

2 7

3 8

4 9

5 10



Etc.

Liquid'Tyler is short for Liquid'Tylenol

Toboe Profile Blog Joined February 2010 United States 276 Posts #17 Thanks for doing the work and releasing this



I'd just like to report in that it works great from my brief testing. It would be cool to eventually see checkpoints and upgrades as well! Immortals are your friend, you can tell by the way they waddle at you

CarbonTwelve Profile Joined November 2010 Australia 525 Posts #18



Thanks for the responses - nice to know there's interest in this version. Will try to answer questions as they come up. On November 12 2010 10:28 Karliath wrote:

Say I put in "1 Dark Templar" with the default time limit. What happens?



The system will set up the requirements for any input received. So if you put in 1 DT, it knows that it has to build a Dark Shrine, which requires a Twilight Council, Cybernetics Core, Gateway, and Pylon. From there it just starts randomly coming up with build orders, and it will start to breed & mutate them to get closer to the result. So if it randomly decides to build a pylon then gateway, it'll likely prefer to develop on that build when it comes to the next generation, so hopefully it then decides to try building a core, and so on.



The system will set up the requirements for any input received. So if you put in 1 DT, it knows that it has to build a Dark Shrine, which requires a Twilight Council, Cybernetics Core, Gateway, and Pylon. From there it just starts randomly coming up with build orders, and it will start to breed & mutate them to get closer to the result. So if it randomly decides to build a pylon then gateway, it'll likely prefer to develop on that build when it comes to the next generation, so hopefully it then decides to try building a core, and so on. On November 12 2010 10:41 Undead_Knight wrote:

I was wondering how is it that you simulate a build order in a game?

For what I understand, your breeding function is just mutating the best builds. But in order to know who to mutate you need to determine its fitness. This fitness should come from running the build order and looking at the result compared to your stud. Or, how do you calculate the fitness of a build?





My algorithm is a true GA - it breeds build orders as well as mutating them. A build order is exactly that - just an order of commands to execute. It breeds them by taking half of one build order and adding it to half of another build order. It then runs through every command and it has a 1% chance for each mutation operation (I have 6 - insert, delete, move, immediate swap, random swap, mutate) to apply it to that command. Calculating the fitness is done by running a simulation using that build order. The value it gives is based on how much of the target it fulfills, and how fast it does it (although if it didn't complete the target then it uses the time limit for how long it took). Breeding selection is then done with roulette wheel selection.



My algorithm is a true GA - it breeds build orders as well as mutating them. A build order is exactly that - just an order of commands to execute. It breeds them by taking half of one build order and adding it to half of another build order. It then runs through every command and it has a 1% chance for each mutation operation (I have 6 - insert, delete, move, immediate swap, random swap, mutate) to apply it to that command. Calculating the fitness is done by running a simulation using that build order. The value it gives is based on how much of the target it fulfills, and how fast it does it (although if it didn't complete the target then it uses the time limit for how long it took). Breeding selection is then done with roulette wheel selection. On November 12 2010 10:49 Kinky wrote:

I put in 30 probes just for a preemptive test and it's telling me to get 4 assimilators after 130386225 runs >_>



I am a bit surprised to hear that. When I run it myself I get a satisfactory result very quickly (within 2 million games / 5 seconds).



I am a bit surprised to hear that. When I run it myself I get a satisfactory result very quickly (within 2 million games / 5 seconds). On November 12 2010 11:10 kochujang wrote:

Is it possible to include a FE into the optimizer? The effectiveness of dual chronoboost would interest me.



It knows that it can build a second nexus, but I don't think it will ever choose that just for chrono boost as it'd almost always be better just to build another production facility.



It knows that it can build a second nexus, but I don't think it will ever choose that just for chrono boost as it'd almost always be better just to build another production facility. On November 12 2010 11:18 Chronicle wrote:

Works great. Only issue I have with it is that when it is fullscreened it does not expand to fullscreen, the build order remains the same size. Would be nice to be able to see builds fullscreened.



Yeah, I'll have the output expand when you adjust the screen size. Yeah, I'll have the output expand when you adjust the screen size.

RobotJebus Profile Joined November 2010 Australia 2 Posts #19 As someone who likes to make utilities to help me with various things, I heartily approve of your work. I'm going to have a play with it

Impeccable Profile Joined November 2010 51 Posts #20 Norton claims that "this file risk is medium" and that "there are many indications that this file is untrustworthy and therefore not safe."

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