31 #31 aiera 6 Frags – + Mirror the lights on second so the one isn't annoying to stand on Mirror the lights on second so the one isn't annoying to stand on

32 #32 Chriz_Tah_Fah 5 Frags – + Benroads Chriz_Tah_Fah I don't think this was mentioned yet. The main door exit out of lobby has some weird clipping on it that I will sometimes get stuck on while trying to do the wall sticky jump across yard into choke. If this was clipped to be flat it would be nice. I can post a screenshot later, but most people probably know the spot I'm talking about. The door is supposed to be a shutter so it has a little metal piece sticking out that you can sometimes run into and get completely stopped. It happens often enough where I have to make a conscious effort to avoid it during rollouts. Every once in a while I get stuck on it when trying to get more speed off the sticky jump (by walking closer to the wall).



Anyway, it's a little annoying and no one would complain if you clipped it.

http://puu.sh/n3gjy/9b5c3494c2.jpg



I think this is the area you're talking about, I somewhat included it in my post but it was more of a general point on the map since I didn't want to go around and have a screenshot of each area he used this prop in. Having all instances of this prop be nonsolid would be great since it really only seems to annoy people. Yeah, that's it. I thought I clicked all the screens to check but I guess I missed one. You seem to have covered just about all of it. [quote=Benroads][quote=Chriz_Tah_Fah]I don't think this was mentioned yet. The main door exit out of lobby has some weird clipping on it that I will sometimes get stuck on while trying to do the wall sticky jump across yard into choke. If this was clipped to be flat it would be nice. I can post a screenshot later, but most people probably know the spot I'm talking about. The door is supposed to be a shutter so it has a little metal piece sticking out that you can sometimes run into and get completely stopped. It happens often enough where I have to make a conscious effort to avoid it during rollouts. Every once in a while I get stuck on it when trying to get more speed off the sticky jump (by walking closer to the wall).



Anyway, it's a little annoying and no one would complain if you clipped it.[/quote]



[img]http://puu.sh/n3gjy/9b5c3494c2.jpg[/img]



I think this is the area you're talking about, I somewhat included it in my post but it was more of a general point on the map since I didn't want to go around and have a screenshot of each area he used this prop in. Having all instances of this prop be nonsolid would be great since it really only seems to annoy people.[/quote]

Yeah, that's it. I thought I clicked all the screens to check but I guess I missed one. You seem to have covered just about all of it.

33 #33 mario 10 Frags – + Any improvements, and not just fixes, would have to be major since snakewater is already a very solid map. Not worth risking a solid map with major changes in my opinion. Sideshow The biggest issues for me watching and playing snakewater: the mid is incredibly one-dimensional, and the last point can be tough to push. This is what I hear as well. As far as mid goes perhaps look at the two side rooms or "kitchens." They are mostly used as hard flanks right now instead of dynamic flank areas on mid fights. Perhaps connecting high ground to kitchen (a drop down or something else) or just opening up kitchen in some way could improve mid. Any improvements, and not just fixes, would have to be major since snakewater is already a very solid map. Not worth risking a solid map with major changes in my opinion.



[quote=Sideshow]The biggest issues for me watching and playing snakewater: the mid is incredibly one-dimensional, and the last point can be tough to push.[/quote]



This is what I hear as well. As far as mid goes perhaps look at the two side rooms or "kitchens." They are mostly used as hard flanks right now instead of dynamic flank areas on mid fights. Perhaps connecting high ground to kitchen (a drop down or something else) or just opening up kitchen in some way could improve mid.

34 #34 Stevie 2 Frags – + Snakewater is my fave comp map. The only issue I ever had with it was the same thing bilbert said, and the forward spawn issie was a bit annoying at times. Snakewater is my fave comp map. The only issue I ever had with it was the same thing bilbert said, and the forward spawn issie was a bit annoying at times.

35 #35 corsa 8 Frags – + nite http://i.imgur.com/xFNAIU7.jpg



more awkward/underutilized/impeding geometry



this spot at mid catches my head constantly, because the platform sticks out past the wall next to it, i would fill this in or move the stairs back a bit so that you cant accidentally get stuck under it when you're running past it. this is an effective hiding spot in some specific situations. [quote=nite]http://i.imgur.com/xFNAIU7.jpg



more awkward/underutilized/impeding geometry



this spot at mid catches my head constantly, because the platform sticks out past the wall next to it, i would fill this in or move the stairs back a bit so that you cant accidentally get stuck under it when you're running past it.[/quote]



this is an effective hiding spot in some specific situations.

36 #36 skeez 0 Frags – + liko it's always extremely boring when playing against skeez' turtle team cmonBruh [quote=liko]it's always extremely boring when playing against skeez' turtle team[/quote]



cmonBruh

37 #37 Air_ 21 Frags – + i live for a benroads map post i live for a benroads map post

38 #38 capnnofapn 2 Frags – + mario Any improvements, and not just fixes, would have to be major since snakewater is already a very solid map. Not worth risking a solid map with major changes in my opinion.

Sideshow The biggest issues for me watching and playing snakewater: the mid is incredibly one-dimensional, and the last point can be tough to push.

This is what I hear as well. As far as mid goes perhaps look at the two side rooms or "kitchens." They are mostly used as hard flanks right now instead of dynamic flank areas on mid fights. Perhaps connecting high ground to kitchen (a drop down or something else) or just opening up kitchen in some way could improve mid. The fact that mid is so narrow really takes options away from teams. Pretty much every team I've been on has the exact same strat for mid which is 1. Soldiers bomb 2. Scouts deny their soldiers then W across mid with heals and demo. This is basically the strategy for every mid except on most you can actually pick a side to stack your team on as a way to stitch it up. There's no way to reasonably give this mid two sides without drastic changes so the best thing you could do is give players more options on ways to get across. I really like the drop down from up top to kitchen idea that Mario had. It sounds really unique and would give soldiers more things to do than get denied by scouts or go for the big flank and bait their team. [quote=mario]Any improvements, and not just fixes, would have to be major since snakewater is already a very solid map. Not worth risking a solid map with major changes in my opinion.



[quote=Sideshow]The biggest issues for me watching and playing snakewater: the mid is incredibly one-dimensional, and the last point can be tough to push.[/quote]



This is what I hear as well. As far as mid goes perhaps look at the two side rooms or "kitchens." They are mostly used as hard flanks right now instead of dynamic flank areas on mid fights. Perhaps connecting high ground to kitchen (a drop down or something else) or just opening up kitchen in some way could improve mid.[/quote]



The fact that mid is so narrow really takes options away from teams. Pretty much every team I've been on has the exact same strat for mid which is 1. Soldiers bomb 2. Scouts deny their soldiers then W across mid with heals and demo. This is basically the strategy for every mid except on most you can actually pick a side to stack your team on as a way to stitch it up. There's no way to reasonably give this mid two sides without drastic changes so the best thing you could do is give players more options on ways to get across. I really like the drop down from up top to kitchen idea that Mario had. It sounds really unique and would give soldiers more things to do than get denied by scouts or go for the big flank and bait their team.

39 #39 Air_ 9 Frags – + snakewater mid definitely has 2 sides capnfapn snakewater mid definitely has 2 sides capnfapn

40 #40 capnnofapn 4 Frags – + O yea blu side and red side oops O yea blu side and red side oops

41 #41 kirby 4 Frags – + The map needs more snakes. Seriously though, I haven't played in awhile and wouldn't really know or remember anything that would be beneficial as far as change goes, but I just wanted to thank you for making one of the best comp maps yet. While I do not really enjoy the visual theme of the map, I do enjoy everything else about it and hope one day you make another map that hopefully lives up to Snakewater. glhf The map needs more snakes.



Seriously though, I haven't played in awhile and wouldn't really know or remember anything that would be beneficial as far as change goes, but I just wanted to thank you for making one of the best comp maps yet. While I do not really enjoy the visual theme of the map, I do enjoy everything else about it and hope one day you make another map that hopefully lives up to Snakewater.



glhf

42 #42 BLoodSire 11 Frags – + I for one think the map plays great. It has it's own identity. I love it's dichotomy of either a shotgun or sustained mid. I love how last often requires several pushes or off-classing. I would be wary of making large overhauls. Last lower + dropdown would be where I would focus most of my attention as that seems mostly like "no mans land" and could be worked to become more useful/intuitive. I for one think the map plays great. It has it's own identity. I love it's dichotomy of either a shotgun or sustained mid. I love how last often requires several pushes or off-classing. I would be wary of making large overhauls. Last lower + dropdown would be where I would focus most of my attention as that seems mostly like "no mans land" and could be worked to become more useful/intuitive.

43 #43 Lain 7 Frags – + Great to see you're back Choj. In terms of what should be looked at, I think middle and last are the most problematic right now. the main reason that attacking last is very difficult is that it's very open, and you've got a lot of time to be killed or popped as a medic when walking in and trying to trade/kill with uber. Not to mention that the defending team gets 2nd point tier height advantage. (whereas on Process/Badlands/Sunshine the height advantages on last are a lot less than on Snakewater)

By the time you walk to the enemy team, you've already gotten 2 seconds off of your uber before they even need to think about popping to counter. And even if they don't, they can retreat back into spawn, or just jump away due to the massive size of the last. I think bringing the main choke closer to last, maybe where the stairs are right now would help facilitate uber pushes better. Great to see you're back Choj.



In terms of what should be looked at, I think middle and last are the most problematic right now.



the main reason that attacking last is very difficult is that it's very open, and you've got a lot of time to be killed or popped as a medic when walking in and trying to trade/kill with uber. Not to mention that the defending team gets 2nd point tier height advantage. (whereas on Process/Badlands/Sunshine the height advantages on last are a lot less than on Snakewater)

By the time you walk to the enemy team, you've already gotten 2 seconds off of your uber before they even need to think about popping to counter. And even if they don't, they can retreat back into spawn, or just jump away due to the massive size of the last. I think bringing the main choke closer to last, maybe where the stairs are right now would help facilitate uber pushes better.

44 #44 bishey 3 Frags – + I think all of the clipping suggestions are great. TF2 is really hurt by barriers that blocks smooth movement. Last could probably do with some change to help out the attackers. I think rest of the map is great as it is. I think all of the clipping suggestions are great. TF2 is really hurt by barriers that blocks smooth movement. Last could probably do with some change to help out the attackers. I think rest of the map is great as it is.

45 #45 Bakenbacon -9 Frags – + needs snakes and water needs snakes and water

46 #46 Triangle -5 Frags – + Bakenbacon needs snakes and water we need more memes in this thread friend [quote=Bakenbacon]needs snakes and water[/quote]





we need more memes in this thread friend

47 #47 kawa -6 Frags – + the mid is claustrophobic af I really like the drop-down into kitchen idea from up top, would open up the mid in a lot of cool ways also I miss the old drop-down on last :< the mid is claustrophobic af



I really like the drop-down into kitchen idea from up top, would open up the mid in a lot of cool ways



also I miss the old drop-down on last :<

48 #48 kaidus 7 Frags – + I hope that nothing get's changed about last, aside from perhaps the spawn door on the left side (attackers perspective). I think it's silly how risk-free it is to completely shut this side down as a sniper with the spawn door only a few steps away - this is really the only thing preventing it from being a very solid last point in my opinion. I hope that nothing get's changed about last, aside from perhaps the spawn door on the left side (attackers perspective). I think it's silly how risk-free it is to completely shut this side down as a sniper with the spawn door only a few steps away - this is really the only thing preventing it from being a very solid last point in my opinion.

49 #49 sops 25 Frags – + Show Content http://i.imgur.com/lFZYc95.jpg I'm so sorry. [spoiler][img]http://i.imgur.com/lFZYc95.jpg[/img][/spoiler]



I'm so sorry.

50 #50 Hoplitejoe 10 Frags – + Super minor thing on mid, there are 2 props, a bucket and hose, which haven't been mirrored which you can use for not that useful but better traps if you are playing on blue team compared to red. Show Content http://i.imgur.com/pfNkgM6.jpg http://i.imgur.com/47q4TyQ.jpg Super minor thing on mid, there are 2 props, a bucket and hose, which haven't been mirrored which you can use for not that useful but better traps if you are playing on blue team compared to red.

[spoiler] [img]http://i.imgur.com/pfNkgM6.jpg[/img]

[img]http://i.imgur.com/47q4TyQ.jpg[/img] [/spoiler]

51 #51 nyk -2 Frags – + I don't have much to say because it's my team's best map, but please add a little more cover from snipers in kitchen looking onto second (and in the same way snipers looking down onto kitchen/point). That's all thanks, it's just that you can get fully charged bodied literally out of nowhere too often I don't have much to say because it's my team's best map, but please add a little more cover from snipers in kitchen looking onto second (and in the same way snipers looking down onto kitchen/point). That's all thanks, it's just that you can get fully charged bodied literally out of nowhere too often

52 #52 BurningSmile -14 Frags – + Bring back dropdown Bring back dropdown

53 #53 chojje cp_snakewater 27 Frags – + Hey everyone, At long last I've been able to work with the changes and bugfixes you've suggested. Here's the current updated version: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2447457/cp_snakewater_u1.bsp.bz2 Changelog u1: * Loads of small clipping fixes, the map should be a LOT smoother to play now

* Loads of visual fixes

* Slightly tweaked last, adding a fence and moving the ramp slightly. Image: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=643766053

* Rotated the little balcony near the shacks at mid. This change might be reverted if it's impopular.

* Added an awning to prevent spam from the walkway above grass connector

* Fixed spawnpoints

* Changed BLU Lobby to mirror RED

* The old sky is back! Hooray! If you get to playtest this version, please give me your feedback! There are likely to be a thousand new bugs for the hundreds that I fixed, so your bugfinding skills are always appreciated. Cheers,

chojje Hey everyone,



At long last I've been able to work with the changes and bugfixes you've suggested.



[size=16]Here's the current updated version: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2447457/cp_snakewater_u1.bsp.bz2[/size]



[u]Changelog u1:[/u]



* Loads of small clipping fixes, the map should be a LOT smoother to play now

* Loads of visual fixes

* Slightly tweaked last, adding a fence and moving the ramp slightly. Image: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=643766053

* Rotated the little balcony near the shacks at mid. This change might be reverted if it's impopular.

* Added an awning to prevent spam from the walkway above grass connector

* Fixed spawnpoints

* Changed BLU Lobby to mirror RED

* The old sky is back! Hooray!



If you get to playtest this version, please give me your feedback! There are likely to be a thousand new bugs for the hundreds that I fixed, so your bugfinding skills are always appreciated.



Cheers,

chojje

54 #54 fahren 8 Frags – + Map looks great so far! Only problem I've noticed so far is that a barrel in blue lobby lets you shoot rockets through it: Show Content http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/318999824710186922/60A4685DABD50917780BC37A9D2BF1A1A122FC8C/ http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/318999824710186358/1E2E54962CE201EEC12F56C8E33C45A0DA66DD0F/ edit: I also found that you can stand on these lights on red side but on blue you will fall through them: Show Content http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/318999824710198453/DBBF2241C0FB8C5DD0550D147123A7D5CE42478A/ Map looks great so far! Only problem I've noticed so far is that a barrel in blue lobby lets you shoot rockets through it:

[spoiler][img]http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/318999824710186922/60A4685DABD50917780BC37A9D2BF1A1A122FC8C/[/img]

[img]http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/318999824710186358/1E2E54962CE201EEC12F56C8E33C45A0DA66DD0F/[/img][/spoiler]



edit: I also found that you can stand on these lights on red side but on blue you will fall through them:

[spoiler][img]http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/318999824710198453/DBBF2241C0FB8C5DD0550D147123A7D5CE42478A/[/img][/spoiler]

55 #55 chojje cp_snakewater 3 Frags – + saffron Good finds, cheers! [quote=saffron][/quote]



Good finds, cheers!

56 #56 Alfie 4 Frags – + Good changes, but the noclipped overhanging roof of the huts on mid are annoyingly deceiving. Either make the roof flush with the walls or leave them clipped. Good changes, but the noclipped overhanging roof of the huts on mid are annoyingly deceiving. Either make the roof flush with the walls or leave them clipped.

57 #57 fight 4 Frags – + Show Content http://i.imgur.com/ai2Stej.jpg you can walk along the entire wall to the left + the doorframe in the picture on both sides of mid [spoiler][img]http://i.imgur.com/ai2Stej.jpg[/img][/spoiler]

you can walk along the entire wall to the left + the doorframe in the picture on both sides of mid

58 #58 Pendji 6 Frags – + dx 81

http://imgur.com/a/XVg6I Not really sure if I like this ramp: http://i.imgur.com/LT6TZ0t.jpg I like how it's less compact than the current version, but the fact it's angled towards the attacker seems a little odd, as you're already incredibly fucked if you're stuck on the flat ground by that spawn area. dx 81

http://imgur.com/a/XVg6I



Not really sure if I like this ramp:

[img]http://i.imgur.com/LT6TZ0t.jpg[/img]

I like how it's less compact than the current version, but the fact it's angled towards the attacker seems a little odd, as you're already incredibly fucked if you're stuck on the flat ground by that spawn area.

59 #59 Collaide 0 Frags – + Pendji dx 81

http://imgur.com/a/XVg6I



Not really sure if I like this ramp:

http://i.imgur.com/LT6TZ0t.jpg

I like how it's less compact than the current version, but the fact it's angled towards the attacker seems a little odd, as you're already incredibly fucked if you're stuck on the flat ground by that spawn area. And the other side of the argument is:

Now you can hold closer and still have highground.

When opposing team pushes you can reach highground faster than before. [quote=Pendji]dx 81

http://imgur.com/a/XVg6I



Not really sure if I like this ramp:

[img]http://i.imgur.com/LT6TZ0t.jpg[/img]

I like how it's less compact than the current version, but the fact it's angled towards the attacker seems a little odd, as you're already incredibly fucked if you're stuck on the flat ground by that spawn area.[/quote]



And the other side of the argument is:

Now you can hold closer and still have highground.

When opposing team pushes you can reach highground faster than before.