According to some experts, St Kilda would not win a game this year, while for Carlton, playing finals was not totally out of the question for some given how they finished last season. Yet after bad losses to Richmond and West Coast, most betting markets have the Blues as favourite for the wooden spoon, and there are themes more worrying than that circling Ikon Park at the moment. Forget the obvious question which most predicted would follow (and maybe even swallow) the Blues this season - that is, will Mick Malthouse's contract situation prove to be a distraction? Consider this one from highly-respected commentator Gerard Healy on Monday night: "are Carlton furthest away from a flag than any other club?" In answering that question, his fellow On The Couch panellist, former Hawthorn great Jason Dunstall, said the Blues were one of a few clubs "quite a long way away", but the factor most alarming for Carlton is that their list profile indicates they should actually be "knocking on the door" of a premiership.

Dunstall pointed out that the Blues had 16 players in the 25-to-29 age platform from which top four teams are usually built – which is five more "prime-age" players than the AFL average of 11. "So that either means they are grossly under-performing, or they are the wrong players in the age group," Dunstall said. "You could name five or six potential stars at each club, but who are the young ones who come to mind when you think about Carlton?" That is another daunting question voiced by many commentators over the weekend. The ones that have come to most minds are 20-year-olds Patrick Cripps (a No.13 draft pick) and Troy Menzel (a No.11 pick), but it would be unfair to leave out recruited young guns like Kristian Jaksch, who is 20 and Sam Docherty (21), and maybe even father-son selection Dylan Buckley (22) or tough midfielder Tom Bell (23), while the jury is still out on former No.18 draft pick Matthew Watson (22).

Yet the growing belief is that this leaves them behind St Kilda, who, according to Dunstall at least, are building the "right framework" for future success on the back of first-round picks like Jack Billings (No.3), Luke Dunstan (No.18), Paddy McCartin (No.1), Hugh Goddard (No.21), Blake Acres (No.19), former Brisbane Lion Billy Longer (No.8) and Seb Ross (No.25). And there are other under-24s who have made an impression, too, like second-round picks Jack Newnes and Nathan Wright, as well as Josh Bruce, Maverick Weller and Eli Templeton. It is widely accepted that Carlton's recruiting has been poor on several fronts, and it has left them in what Talking Footy panellist Tim Watson described as a "deep, deep hole". But the solution seems just as widely agreed on. Footy Classified's Matthew Lloyd said the Blues need to "start again", and that new list manager Stephen Silvagni should consider trading out experienced players for early draft picks.

This, ironically, would be following the "stockpile" blueprint used by St Kilda – who traded Ben McEvoy and received compensation for losing Brendon Goddard and Nick Dal Santo – and also the Western Bulldogs, who traded Brian Lake to bolster an already strong position in the 2012 draft and (albeit having it forced on them) look better placed for the future after the Ryan Griffen-Tom Boyd mega deal. St Kilda, remember, were in a "deep hole", too, having recruited a total of 24 players between 2009-11, of which only three remain at the club. Blues star Bryce Gibbs was one name floated by Lloyd, while Healy threw up the captain Marc Murphy, a situation that seems highly unlikely but not unprecedented given Griffen's defection to GWS last year. Although Gibbs is signed until the end of 2019, Footy Classified's Garry Lyon said it was "not outside the realms" that Gibbs could be traded given the increasingly frenzied nature of the trade and free agency periods at the end of a season. "They might say to Bryce Gibbs … we're probably not going to get the opportunity to play in a grand final while you're here, maybe we could get a win-win?" Lyon said.

It's all a bit "desperate times, desperate measures" kind of stuff, and it can't be overlooked that the best picks both the Saints and the Dogs have secured came via low finishes on the ladder – a place Carlton has not been since 2007. So a pertinent question is whether a club like Carlton would be prepared again to go down the road travelled by St Kilda and the Western Bulldogs. They are, after all, teams with low supporter bases and ones that at least got to see a series of grand finals and preliminary finals as a result of their club's last "rebuilds". For the pain Carlton supporters endured in the early- to mid-2000's, the club's rise has peaked only at semi-finals since, under Brett Ratten and then Malthouse in 2013, when the Blues took Essendon's spot in the finals. Healy said a St Kilda-style recovery was in order for Carlton, but mused: "I wonder if Carlton have the strength to do that".

"They [the Saints] made a conscious decision to say, 'alright, we are going to go back down and actually encourage the depth to which we plummet by trading away some serious players'," he said. If that is the direction the Blues take, then the question of whether Malthouse is the right man to lead them comes into sharper focus. Melbourne coach Paul Roos says the answer is emphatically "yes". "I don't think you question is he the right coach to coach for the club – he is an exceptional coach," he said on AFL 360. Talking Footy panellist Wayne Carey went a step further by saying the Blues should re-appoint Malthouse now.