Interview with Glorious Times Editors Alan Moses and Brian Pattison 2009

by Bradley Smith

So can you give me the back ground on Glorious Times? I mean, what is it? How did the idea to write the book come about? And who do you have contributing?

Brian – “Glorious Times: A Pictorial of the Death Metal Scene (1984-1991)” is a book we’re compiling which is a combination of rare/unseen pictures combined with the personal memories/stories from the people and bands of the era. So, you have things like never before published pictures of a 1985 Massacre rehearsal and personal stories from Kam Lee about the early days of Massacre. The idea for the book came about through an off the cuff remark that Alan made. Alan and I were exchanging emails and he was asking me first about my old cassette tapes (demo’s, rehearsals, bootlegs) from back in the late 1980’s, then he started inquiring about any pics I might have. At that point, I honestly did not know if I even had any pics remaining from those days. I dug through a few boxes and among the first pics I found were that of Autopsy from “A Day of Death”. Looking at those pics I noticed a familiar figure across the stage in several of my pictures, so I scanned those first and email them to Alan to verify that the image was him. He got a great kick out of that then dug up his own pics of Autopsy from that show and sure enough in a few of his pics there I was across the stage. I scanned a few more for Alan (Morbid Angel, Nuclear Death, Fatal, Deceased and others) and he was extremely happy with them and expressed to me how rare they were. As we discussed them, he then said something about keeping a book of them handy to look through and remember those days. I thought that was a fantastic idea and we started discussing making a book, but at that point it seemed highly unlikely that we’d be able to pull it off. Discussions continued and we thought of asking old friends for stories to put with the pics so that the book could be something that we could pick up over and over and read the stories to remember our old friends and the times we shared. As we started to ask more people, they all stated what a great idea it was and that they were honoured that we asked them. So far we have contributions from Kam Lee (Death/Massacre), John (Lethal Aggression), King (Deceased), Joel (Nuclear Death), Mike Browning (Morbid Angel/Nocturnus), Richard Brunelle (Morbid Angel), Dennis John (Tirant Sin), Alex (Cannibal Corpse), Lars (Vomit) and a bunch more. We started up a myspace page for the book to keep post updates and such on Sept. 22, and at that point things just exploded and have sped up exponentially. The myspace page has resulted in more promises of stories and pics and has given a bit of a kick in the ass to those who have been slow to turn in their promised stories.

Alan - 'Glorious Times' is a book, specifically a pictorial book that concentrates on just that - our glorious times. Other people have whatever it is that are their glorious times, it might be playing high school ball and making 4 touchdowns in a single game (like Al Bundy) or getting their driver's licenses the day they were old enough - you know, whatever people hold dear.



For Brian and I though, it is something else - part of a life we've lived and shared with many others - and that happens to be the Death Metal scene.



The idea came up when we had been back in touch maybe 6 months ago -and we were catching up about all the happenings (life) and the subject just sort of came to old photos. Each of us asking if the other still had them, and as time went on we started to talk about certain shared memories of those old days that we treasure - and talking to each other about events that the other wasn't party to. No different than you and I do Brad.



There were a lot of tears too, hehehe, when relaying the amounts of documentation and photos etc that didn't survive the years. I cannot believe how much is GONE from our collections for one reason or another.



One of the conversations was about the photos, and I mentioned that I was 'doctoring up' many old rare and unseen photos to share with people on my private myspace page - and Brian went and dug up all his stuff and started sharing it with me. As time went on I mentioned just how extremely rare our shared collections are - 'historically significant documents' is how I think I have described the items in question. I've often said that many of the books that have somehow been published lack anything interesting in the way of photos, and have even been asked by a great many people both inside and outside of music if I'd ever write a book (just of my exploits in the USA) - but of course who'd want to read anything like that anyways?



The book Paul Speckmann has written but publishers won't invest in right now, surely, or the forthcoming book about the UKHC scene, but not something about me. So I made an off the cuff comment to Brian that together we had all the makings of a photo book - never realizing that he would go away and stew on that and come back to me saying he wanted to do it, but with a twist.



The twist is to bring life to the photos from the perspective of those that lived it too, the band members and individuals who shared those glorious times with us, the people that you would drag a photo album of such material out to show - the result being commentaries starting about 'I remember when...'



It's no different when you sit with family and look through an old photo album - the concept is exactly the same, except this 'photo album' has some written commentary of whatever personal fond memories other people involved have today, from yesterday.



The more Brian and I discussed it, and the further we delved into the possibilities - the more we understood that once and for all these stories need to be told, on whatever level we can get them told anyways. Nobody is getting any younger, and some of us have already fallen, with more to come - so it's vastly important that this intertwined phenomenon that touched so many lives, and WAS life for so many others like us get a voice before it's too late.



If we don't then our stories will continue to be misrepresented in the form of most of the other books out there today. There's quite a family tree involved I assure you, from all sorts of places and musical styles within the extreme music entity of the pioneering period, which I believe Brian has well and truly covered here.

Can you give me an insight into your credentials? What makes you two a credible authority to put Glorious Times out? I know that you, Alan, ran the Morbid Angel fan club, Covenant of Death, back in the day? Anything else of note?

Brian – Once I started going to local shows in Buffalo I knew I wanted to be involved. I started making friends with the local bands, which at the time included the likes of Cannibal Corpse and Baphomet (later changed to Banished), then began to tape trade with people such as Lars Rosenberg of Carbonized. Those early experiences of making friends with the bands and tape trading pushed me in the direction of starting a ‘zine (Chainsaw Abortions). At the same time I was attending Buffalo State College where there was a great college radio station (WBNY). The DJ at the time was Psycho (Mark Abramson now with Roadrunner Records), so I began to hang out at the station and got to know Mark who at the time shared an apartment with Alex Webster of Cannibal Corpse. Mark got the job offer at Roadrunner and let me know that the metal show would be lacking a DJ, so I started training to be a DJ and after my hours of training were done and I got my FCC license I took over reigns of the metal show at WBNY. All the while maintaining and growing my friendships with local bands as well as those from the Pittsburgh and NY city areas. These friendships led to me being a co-promoter of several shows in Buffalo, including “A Day of Death” in 1990.

Alan - I could comment on Brian's credentials but I won't - that's his side to tell clearly.



As for me, well you know that while I was living in Australia I was a trader (records, audio tapes, video, t-shirts and everything else pretty much) and also had my own little 'zine called BUTTFACE. BUTTFACE was just a way to give my voice to the scene, and I did it all pretty much on my own, although my co-Editor Stuart Maitland contributed some interviews and reviews, the bulk of all the work was mine and I was glad to do it.



There were no real zines in Australia then, certainly not ones getting out onto the international scene (I never have ever seen a single fanzine except for a few thin ones from the old hardcore scene from Australia), and no trading to the international magnitude Stuart Maitland and I were doing, of this I am 100% certain.



Things developed further and although there were a few excellent bands here - I wasn't prepared to just sit and wait for things to happen, so I went and got a slave job working like a dog in a factory to save money to get to the US and Canada for a vacation.



1990 rolled around and I made it out there, but got delayed from Canada because MORBID ANGEL offered me to come on a small US tour, and at the same time there was a bit of chatter about maybe going to work for NAPALM DEATH. But I chose to go with the morbid ones, and during that tour got offered employment with their management, and after the vacation I returned to Australia to get my stuff together and leave for good. I packed up what I could bring, and at 20 years old left a career I could have pursued, a family, a few friends and a way of life behind.



Does that make me an authority to do this then? - yeah I think I'm OK to be involved with the project.



I timed my return EXACTLY to attend the legendary A DAY OF DEATH which Brian helped organize, a day of true infamy for the scene - Saturday October 20 1990.By all this time I had accrued a lot of contacts and friends, Brian being one of those who had also helped me out when I had financed a record for AGATHOCLES.



I did a few tours as MORBID ANGEL'S merchandiser and roadie (along with the only other roadie back then, the original Joe King), and yes, ran the Covenant Of Death also. That was of course until my wife at that time (now deceased) stole all the money from the COD account and forced me to relinquish that to Trey, a treachery impossible to heal or recover from, and one most people know nothing about. I also worked at ACES RECS which was the biggest extreme music record store in the entire Southern United States.

How has it been trying to coordinate with all these death metal luminaries and get their contributions for the book? How did you go about selecting who would contribute and what all did they offer, just pics, or stories, or interviews, or what? Is it frustrating trying to get everyone to meet your deadline?

Brian – It has been a great experience, partly because many were friends back then and we have shared memories. The process of selecting who to contact has been pretty easy, we started with friends, then just went through our pics and when we saw we had exceptionally great/rare pics of certain bands we would then seek them out. Most have offered up whatever we wanted; from great stories to rare pics to unreleased material for a possible bonus cd. The deadline hasn’t been as frustrating as I’ve expected, there are of course still those that will push it to the very limit, but enough others have stepped up and submitted their stuff before the deadline that it’s keeping me quite busy.

Alan - Difficult? hehehe Yeah really difficult sometimes to get it all together, not with everybody though, some folks are right on the ball and in fact were so months before we even started working on the official myspace site. Chris Reifert said it right when he said it's just always frustrating when you gotta deal with other people - couldn't be truer.



I have a lot of respect for people like Gunter Ford (Morbid Angel - World Management) - just imagine the shit he had to do with no internet for what amounted to the first band of extreme nature to be signed to a major! When I get pissed or frustrated, I tend to think of him and Dieter back in the day - then it doesn't seem so bad at all hahaha.



It was easy as hell to figure who we wanted, most of them are our friends anyways, and those who are not our friends are our associates in one way or another. Like kissin' cousins hahahaha - I mean, you know we are all family on one level or another, so it's just a matter of being able to reach someone and them have the time to help. There's a million things going on with everyone else too - so that adds to the value of the project.



Let it be known though that almost every dam one of them has said our book is essential, and they want in. It's another thing if they get in - you know, there's contracts and tours, family, new babies, deaths in the family and every other thing that can get in the way of something simple like writing a couple paragraphs of favourite memories.



Others though seem more content to say they are busy and just sit on facebook posting updates on the temperature of their bath water.



You'd be surprised though, a lot of people HAVEN'T let anything get in the way and have stuck with us (like Alex Webster) and delivered whilst on a major tour, real heroes! Then there are others that we couldn't ask because of management contracts and every dam 'right' you could think of - so unfortunately some of those folks won't appear - it's nothing personal just business.



Well, we are not an interview book. That's so far away from what GLORIOUS TIMES is, and if someone gets the book expecting that, then they are in for a hell of a disappointment. You can read interviews everywhere these days and buy many books with attempted histories of the entire thing and educate yourself in complete mistakes as much as you care to - what you can't read are a lot of the personal stories and indulge in all of the rare unseen photos.



Some bands have only had to relay those memories because we've had photos anyways, others have done both - offered photos and stories, and some have gone so far as to mail us their entire collections of audio material for file sourcing purposes (because of the CD we have in store for pre-paid orders) and scrapbooks full of photos so we can get the photos exactly to the resolution we need to have them in, and Brian returns the favour by returning the materials and a digitized copy of everything.



It's an heroic effort, not just by us, but by our friends and colleagues who share this unique life with us. I am very proud, not just of the book and Brian, but of all those folks who have shown their admiration for our idea and support in contribution.



Are there any materials you would like to include in the book but unfortunately cannot? What are they are what are some of the reasons you can’t?

Brian – We’re still putting it together, but I’m sure there will be stuff we would have liked to include but will end up not using. Some photos that have been contributed won’t be used because they are low res and will look terrible after being printed. Personally, I’m pretty certain we won’t be using any of my pics of Godflesh, and I think those are some of the best that I took, capturing Joe Caper and Barney Greenway watching from the side of the stage. Other great pics won’t be used because we can’t locate the original photographer to get permission.

Alan - OH YEAH, there's alot of stuff we want to have in the book and can't. Logos for one thing, unfortunately some of those are now corporate ones hahahaha, so we'd be paying more than we'd ever make working day jobs just to print a few of the band's logos. There are a couple of photos I have too that would more than likely get me sued if I printed, I mean I was mailed them in 1986 or 1987 but because I don't possess the negatives I'd get buttfucked in court if anyone decided to bitch, others will remain unseen for other reasons.



Some of the other things would be some classic pictures that we did not take ourselves but the resolutions are too low so no printer will touch them, or photos that are exceptionally candid, the subjects of which would probably not be happy about the public seeing hehehe.

How do you feel the death metal scene has changed from the days you are glorifying in the book and the present one? Do you ever get nostalgic for the old days and do you feel this book is a reflection of that feeling?

Brian – The scene we’re showing in our book was all new and unharmed by the interactions with major labels. The genre was so new that in many cities you couldn’t have shows that were all death metal bands so you’d have aggressive hardcore bands or thrash bands on the bill too. Now, you see these tours and festivals going on that have nothing but death metal. I love death metal, but if all I had to hear were 13 bands in a row sounding really similar I’d get quite bored. The old days here in Buffalo were great, you’d go to this really small club (the River Rock Cafe) and you’d see 2 or 3 different styles of music on the same bill all the time and that would gain each style new fans. In Buffalo it was not uncommon to find hardcore kids at the death metal shows or metalheads at the hardcore shows. Then the Skyroom opened and the scene got even better because now you weren’t just stuck with the River Rock that could hold about 200 people, you now had the Skyroom that could hold in excess of 700. How great the combined hardcore and death metal scenes in Buffalo had become really is exemplified by the last show at the Skyroom. It was an all local band show – Cannibal Corpse, Baphomet, Zero Tolerance and Snapcase (2 death metal and 2 hardcore bands) – and it drew to the clubs capacity (in excess of 700), to put that in perspective, A Day of Death ( a mere 4 months earlier) drew a great crowd (biggest for any death fest of the time) of a little over 600 people. Of course I get nostalgic, it was great times with great friends at a time when everything was new so you quickly made friends with the bands, ‘zines, promoters...many bands that are now legendary were just starting out. We got to see Mortician when John McEntee was still pulling double duty and playing in both Mortician and Incantation, we got to see the early line ups of bands like Acheron, Suffocation, Goreaphobia, and Immolation. We were lucky enough to see bands that are legends now play in small clubs with less than 100 people in attendance. Not only did we get to see them, but the scene was so small and new that we became friends with them and our shared memories of those times will last a lifetime. 20 years from now this generation will look back at these years and reminisce and refer to them as their golden years, their glorious times, but still those memories will pale in comparison to ours. We saw the dawn of the genre, we were there when it started and when the new styles emerged from it...it might seem egotistical to say that our times and memories are and will always be better, but when the book comes out and people see the pictures and read the stories they will have no doubt that those early years (1984 – 1991) were indeed Glorious Times.

Alan - One thing I want to clarify is that I think there are almost 2 scenes. There's the new one - that is the one that's newbies, and then there's the other which is personified by organizations such as NYDM. The latter smacks of something that survived the old days and has taken root into the present from the past. Those people are amazing, and are taking the HERESY adage 'Network Of Friends' into practice (at least that's the way I see it).



I don't think that the old scene was anywhere near as concerned about recording contracts or 'fame' - but it is what I have noticed the younger crowd are preoccupied with for the most part. Alot of them have a rude awakening in store because you can bust your asses for decades and never get any more recognition than you did as a demo band. I love Vincent Crowley's stand point on that subject and agree with it totally.



I was speaking with Sharon from DERKETA about the book a few weeks ago over the phone, and she so truly underlined the sentiment that we are a family. There's direct relationships, indirect relationships, friends, family acquaintance and even enemies, it's all biological.



Does it exist in the new scene, if you want to even call it that? If it does I just don't SEE it, it isn't so much of a part of the thing that it is manifested outwardly, like a culture manifests itself from the souls of a race of people does.



You, Brad, so rightfully labelled it as 'plastic' and I like to employ your reference to such matters myself these days. So thanks for the concept description - now how much mechanical rights and intangible ethereal rights do we have to pay your attorneys to use the word 'plastic' again? hehehehe

Alan, I know helped mentor me somewhat in my musical development in my early days. But for those of us without a knowledgeable person to help, how would you advise a scene newbie to follow “the right path?” Also what is your attitude today towards newbies and how did you feel about them back in the day? I know a lot of people have a great disdain towards people who are new to the scene.

Brian – Times are much much different now. A new band can start, record one song and thanks to things like myspace, facebook, youtube and various other sites on the web, they can have their music heard ‘round the world on the same day they create it. Back in the 1980’s if you wanted to hear some new underground band you had to trade tapes for it or send cash through the mail and then wait weeks to get it. If you really wanted to stay on top of the scene back then you had to make sure you had correspondence with people from all over the world.. I was corresponding with Alan in Australia, Lars of Carbonized from Sweden, people in Greece, Italy, Japan, Malaysia, the UK, Canada, Brazil, Chile, France, Belgium... I was spending a small fortune on postage, just to keep up on things. Now, that’s simply not necessary, you can find just about anything you want on the internet with just a little bit of looking, and many times you can just download their music, sadly many times it’s crapped down to (e)mp(ty)3, but it’s all out there to check out. I’m old school so I would advise newbies to do things the same way that we did, seek out new bands then not only buy their demo tapes/cds, but also write to them, and to do the same thing with ‘zines (online or printed)..get in touch with the editors and establish friendships. Alan and I did that 20 years ago, and here we are now in contact again and regaining contacting with old friends and picking up those friendships all over. To me that made the music and times back then so much more special, these weren’t just some band I liked, they were friends.

Alan - You can sort of tell from a person when they are interested in something, and come to ask you for your opinion. One of my pet peeves is being bothered by someone for my opinion, but they don't want to listen or only want to hear from me what they want to hear. When I get that vibe I recoil and leave it unattended for sure, in any part of life.



There's been some rewarding experiences from unveiling the world of extreme music to youngsters, Jason Kiss from ADVENT ABORTUS for an example. I met him working at a school he attended in Florida, he was like 12 then and is now completely entrenched in the scene. He's active in alot of projects, can play various instruments, has a healthy interest in extreme music from many angles, and above all has become self-educated in the whole thing, therefore he unfurled his own history and has a massively healthy respect for the pioneering days across the board.



If I shunned newbies, who knows where he'd have ended up? Probably already rich as hell with gorgeous bits of tottie in this massive stable...but he chose this path hehehe



In all seriousness though, everyone has to start somewhere, and for the newbie to get an education they have to watch how they ask things and have gotta show some respect and make an effort to educate themselves too. Like an apprenticeship almost. Maybe the hardcore old day's apprenticeship training is needed, like I got in the USA being beaten across the back with a piece of galvanzied pipe toting heavy ass reels of electrical wire - to see if I'd cry like a wuss and quit. We wouldn't probably have too many new people interested in the music though come to think of it hehe.



Back in the day I was a little hard on the newbies, but only because of their incessant continuance to suckle at the teat of the big glossy magazines that back then only catered to THE BIG 4 (which was of course SLAYER, METALLICA, MEGADETH and ANTHRAX closely to be followed by other bands) - and all the while those same magazines hurled shit at MAYHEM, MORBID ANGEL, NAPALM DEATH as an example. Today many of those same bands are now the darlings of the same mags that slung shit in their faces, now that there's vast sums of money to be made. The young crowd has no idea this is the case, as they parade about the place in their CRADLE OF FILTH and LAMB OF GOD shirts. The bands in some cases have changed names but the attitude remains the same in this respect. But of course with MORBID ANGEL and their well deserved major label deal with Giant, the writing was on the wall that the cycle had repeated itself, and it did just that.

This vast corporate cash machine was born - and with it had been groomed a massive army of consumers ready to eat as much soilent green as could be thrown at them, all the while believing it was gourmet cuisine.



Obviously Morbid Angel made a huge impact on you Alan, but what bands from the early days do you feel “changed your life?” And what made these bands so special and set them apart from other bands at the time? Are there any acts worth following these days?

Brian – I got into this a little later than Alan, only really discovering the underground in about 1989. But, for me the moment that changed my life was picking up this cassette compilation that Hit Parade magazine released in 1985, “The Wild Bunch”. The tape had mostly mediocre 1980’s metal/thrash bands but listening to the tape and get to the 4th song on side 2 and just knew that was it, this was the band. The song was “Burning in Hell” by Possessed, faster and far heavier than anything else on the tape, I began listening to the tape by just fast forwarding beyond the rest to hear the Possessed track. That was the moment for me, from that point on I began seeking out heavier and faster bands and started to go to underground shows in Buffalo in early 1989. At one of those shows (Bloodfeast, I think) I found some flyers sitting on a table for a Swedish band – Carbonized. This would be my first demo tape purchase and the beginning of years of tape trading, ‘zine editing, concert promotions and just general correspondence with people from all over the world... coming to its peak on October 20, 1990 at “ A Day of Death” in Buffalo, a show I helped to promote. For that one day, Buffalo was the center of the death metal world. All of that happened because of that first hearing of Possessed.

As for following bands now, I’m sure there are some worth following, but I’ve yet to hear any new metal band that grabs me like those of the late 1980’s did. I still very much follow Deceased, Mortician and a few others that were around back then that remained, but of the newer breed there is just nothing that grabs me by the throat and demands to be heard...maybe it’s out there and I just haven’t heard it yet.

Alan - Certainly, I owe MORBID ANGEL everything in this respect. Bands from the earlier period like RAZOR, the early West German bands that wore the crowns, INSANITY and GENOCIDE (who became REPULSION), SIEGE, NIHILIST, CRYPTIC SLAUGHTER and WEHRMACHT, the unholy trinity of bands from Los Angeles MAJESTY/TERRORIZER/NAUSEA and REGURGITATION (who became Old Lady Drivers) definitely wrested me away from the mainstream, as did HERESY, RIPCORD, EXTREME NOISE TERROR , NAPALM DEATH and the whole UK phenomenon in general really. From my own country the major culprit would have to be MASSAPPEAL. These I would say are the main bands that revolutionized my vision towards music in general and extreme music specifically.



The bottom line is that all of these bands were bringing something really unique to the table, and the equation that still astounds me today is the sheer youth of the musicians, and how bloody good they were. Innovative and adventurous, really pushing the envelope and at the same time there was this DNA stamp all over their music that was impossible to confuse with anyone else. There was not so much a genre as there were bands for the most part, even though we still got trapped in labelling bands for reference which is like an ugly necessity sometimes, especially regarding the press, and by that I mean everything including the home made photocopied 'zines.



Well Brad, lately it's been yourself and Brian, Joel Whitfield (Nuclear Death) and Lars Sorbekk (Vomit) who have been recommending alot of bands, and some are misses, while some are big hits with me (read KOLDBRANN and SLEEPYTIME GORILLA MUSEUM). Of course there's bands out there I personally think are worth keeping an eye on, and I do just that....I am not going to mention pioneering bands still going, but rather newer bands whether they consist of older or younger members - they are DISFLESH (Spain), GERIATRIC UNIT (UK), VIOLENT ARREST (UK), PUNCH (California), NIGHTSTICK JUSTICE (from the US but can't recall what state right now) - same goes for COKE BUST, SWAMP (Greece), ADVENT ABORTUS (Texas), MAUS (Australia), OPPROBRIUM (FL) and EXPOSE YOUR HATE (Brazil) to mention a few that I am REALLY watching with extreme interest at the moment.

I love the underground blogs and am a frequent visitor to many of them, I even contribute to a very special blog called LOCKJAW sometimes. I try hard to buy music when I stumble onto a band - and have done so with a great many, buying everything PUNCH put out in every format they offered at the time. Watch for them, they are simply amazing - they are TRULY sick-tight!

When we were hanging out black metal was starting its rise in the underground. How do you feel that Black metal affected the death metal underground? And on top of that how do you think that death metal affected Thrash before it? Do you think that metal is cyclical like so many other people do or do you feel it is ever evolving and where is it headed next?

Brian – Black metal was just another branch, a logical progression of metal. Any form of music will splinter and change/diversify as time progresses. The Norwegian bands just drew a larger influence from the very early death metal bands and took it to a new extreme musically, lyrically and visually. Metal is both ever evolving and cyclical...each new generation that comes along has different influences from the previous generation and their music will show that. Metal has always fallen in and out of popularity, when times get a bit darker metal gets more popular. Like now with most of the world in a recession/depression metal is gaining in popularity once again.

Alan - Yeah, that was during the initial 'putsch' wasn't it? hehe I would gather that there was a definite amount of influence from either scene on the other - without a doubt, that's great if it's utilized well of course and could only help further evolutionary mutations spring forth.



Same with the death bands - but I think the presence of the cash machine sort of bungled the biological natural selection for the black metal bands and the death bands too for a while and there was alot of mutation dying off that would have survived if left alone by the influence of the dollar. I think the black metal phenomenon was accepted alot faster by the corporate multinationals than anything previously, although it was spat on by the same vampires until they realized how to profit from it.



Each new evolution sort of overshadowed the previous for a while as far as popularity, but then again the multinationals are part of why that's the case - not so much that the music was actually being accepted by fans I think. People might not have been devouring new music all the time in the 20+ years after the glorious times, but they dam sure had a staple diet of classics that I am certain got frequent play all the way through.



Still though, it is sort of cyclic, and being 'retro' is sort of a fashion, administered by the cash masters just as they brought back platform shoes and flared trousers, leave enough of a gap in time and the next generation of consumer will believe what's available is actually new - rather than just the same thing 2 generations down the road.



Sometimes I wonder where it will all head, and I did when so many of those sort of bands I mentioned above hit me hard with their music - I don't think there's any way to tell. Nonetheless there will be innovators that create something a bit different - how it manifests itself is impossible to foresee.



John Verica, one of the old timers who watched the whole glory day from through a video camera as he recorded a visual testimony to the whole era summed it up nicely when he said that it's a shame that the scene passes through its paradigm shifts.

Alan, when I met you, you were working at the legendary Tampa metal record store, Ace’s Records. Can you tell me about that experience as working in a record store is a dream job for most metal heads? How was it working with other such notable death metal artists like James Murphy and David Vincent? And what were some of your most memorable experiences there?

Alan - That much is true also, we did meet when I was still employed at ACES. I owe all that to David Vincent and Joe King who were both working there on weekends at the time. Back then we were only open on weekends and based out of the Oldsmar Flea Market which is West of Tampa. It was a dream for me, because I needed a fucking job hahahaha.



Seriously though I was starving and living from the little money I made doing the Covenant and selling rare ass t-shirts out of my suitcases - whatever happened and exactly how I don't really know - but David and Joe put in the good word for me to the founder/owner Frank Dansecs. Frank knew me from my initial visits out there dropping shit loads of money down on a ton of records, and he'd been told I knew my shit about the underground which was just starting to bubble through into 'consciousness' via more albums being released.



So because of my credentials and close ties to certain key people (I guess, in Frank's eyes) he took me on because he felt I was essential to bridging the gap between this new music phenomenon and the prospective customers.



The beauty of all that era was meeting people, customers I mean, some of whom I am still in touch with today. It was also advantageous to go hunting for tail too.



Of course another benefit was meeting various band members, not that they stopped in all the time (which is a common misconception), or band members who were passing through on tour. It was all pioneering of course so every day was different. I never really 'worked' with David there though, he more stopped by and hung out, you know as a bit of a celebrity to draw people from what I remember. James on the other hand was a full employee and he came to work just like us, although of course he was utilized in just the exact same way and for the same reasons as David, that is undeniable fact.



James was great to work with and a real friend, he had a quirky sense of humour and sometimes it was impossible to get shit done. I still remember this weird guy coming in wearing a hair piece and glasses, the hair piece was all flat down the side of his head and obviously fake, but we were not sure if they guy knew what it really looked like. He would come in and want to talk shop with James, which was funny to see because some of the guys' opinions were pretty far out there (not just about music either) - and he had this bizarre addiction to the WEHRMACHT CD 'Biermacht' - which of course is an amazing pioneer of a musical adventure - but this dude was obsessive. I mean he bought every fucking one we had! Then he begged Frank to order more from Anne at New Renaissance, and bought all those too - he was freaking out I tell you, he must have had 50 copies of this single WEHRMACHT release. He was absolutely convinced of it's uniqueness (unarguable fact as it is) but completely paranoid that if anything were to happen to one of them, he must have dozens more as a safety net.



As insane as that is - that's proving loyalty to the Macht alright. James and I would go on and on for hours and hours mimicking the way the dude walked and talked and dry hump copies of the CD this guy hadn't found out we just got back in stock as this long running gag about this strange fuckin cat that probably ran off and started a cult somewhere before turning them all into soup. James also one day was gas bagging to Krgin on the phone about the new FEAR FACTORY which was their debut about to be released by Monte Connor. I loved that FF demo, many of us did, ASSUCK and the Brandon Crew for a start, and I just sort of shouted something like " hey man - I know you and Morbid don't get along and all - don't blame me dude, I just work for them hehehehe - can you send me one, hey James get him to send me one ehhe" and Krgin DID.



I've never met him, never spoken to him, but I still recall that and I've never forgotten that. EVER. I always hold a place for his VIOLENT NOIZE zine days and that's pioneering itself given its early days (to me superior to Metal Forces from the UK). I asked him to be a part of our book - to share some of his special memories as a bit of a salute and thank you to him, but it was a long shot and of course we never heard from him.



There's a ton of memories to share - and that would make a bit of a book, but nobody would care to read it. Amazingly there were even various people that came to Tampa on holiday (either for the music in ater years, or stopping by on their way to Disney with their families) and looked me up via ACES, I don't know why or how they knew of me because in every case I had no idea who they were beforehand.



Needless to say, it kept my family fed, and was a part of my glorious times so I thank David, Joe and Frank for getting me taken care of, and then all the people I met along the way. One of whom, Mike Alvarez, a roadie for BRUTALITY was a huge part of my life, and still today one of my greatest friends, he was a witness to my first marriage, and just a massive part of my life.

Alan, you moved from Australia to Tampa Florida, the Death metal capital of the world. Can you describe that journey and how Tampa met your expectations and how it failed? Did you help show around any “metal” visitors when they came and what was their impression of Tampa? How did you make the trip more METAL for them? Heh heh.

Alan - I had no reservations and have no regrets. It was a totally natural thing to do for me. Well come to think of it I do actually regret not making it to California and Oregon (CS/Macht etc had basically broken up by then) and Arizona for Lori, Joel and Phil (Nuclear Death) and Vegas (Mitch had left by then too) and finally Montreal (I had over 100 pen pals in that province of Quebec alone back then) - they were on my original itinerary but all that got scrapped once Richard Brunelle called me in Ft. Lauderdale.



I was partying with Phil and MALEVOLENT forever, and actually went back for Spring Break so that was 2 visits there during my first trip to the US. Richard called to tell me Mitch was in town with NAPALM and after me, and to ask if I wanted to go on tour with them - so that changed the course of my life forever.



Adjusting was hard sometimes, I mean to American life. I never felt like an 'Aussie' so to speak, I have never used all the lingo and never carried on like alot of them do when they go to the US, you know, really plying an accent and trying to be all different and interesting - but still there are things that send one into a type of cultural shock. It happened to Laurent Ramadier who went to the states from France at 18, 2 years younger than I went, but for basically the same dam reasons - MORBID ANGEL. So the adjustment problems weren't so much just being foreign, although of European descent like most of the people, but being young and a bit inexperienced to compound that. I basically did my growing up and maturing in the US, so that further alienates me from Australian society although I am back now.



I must say though that I don't think it's quite fair to say that Tampa was/is the DM Capital, when there's some major playing countries from the same era, Brazil, Sweden, UK, Canada...but then I guess Tampa pretty much was straight death metal for the most part huh? I dunno - I just don't think of it like that. I was into as many or more bands from any of those other places I mentioned just a minute ago. If MORBID ANGEL had stayed in NY when they tried to move up there, well then I'd have been centered there.



Tampa didn't fail me at all, and I had no real expectation other than to meet my friends and associates, which I did. Tampa and the people that took me into their fraternity as an undisputed equal, having paid my dues, actually provided me with far more experience than anyone could ask for or expect.



For that, any of you reading this, I humbly thank you from the bottom of my heart. You'll know who you are and know what you did for me. Except of course the guy that stole from me and my orderers when I financed the AGATHOCLES 'Fascination Of Mutilation' live 7" flexi - I've had YOU in the cross hairs of my Maddi many times and decided not to pull the trigger.



I did a lot of promo for ACES through the Covenant in the early days, when Earache had no US identity yet, they were forging little distribution deals with In-Effect and Combat. Frank from ACES was doing alot of promotion and let me use many of his industry contacts for my newsletter. That brought the store to the attention of the Covenant members, or conversely, they might have seen a video that featured David Vincent from the flea market days and that alerted them. Once people came through Tampa and stopped by, depending on how I got along with them (ie apprenticeship hehe) I would offer them a bit of an inside look, or flat out palm them off onto friends like Mike Alvarez when I just did not have the time (working and raising someone else's little girl). Poor Mike - he's really the unsung hero here - he did way more for the visiting fans than I did, I just played middle man.



That was great though, because this network of friends really helped to make the experience a special one for some of these folks, adding to their glorious times. Hopefully they came away with some happy memories that they still cherish today because I do.



In later years I did the same thing with a couple really cool guys who wrote letters in to the Covenant, I picked the best ones from the outlying areas and invited them to my home for an all expenses paid type royal treatment. Jeremy Holcombe and Richard 'Ryan' Teale - friends to this day by the way. I didn't announce it, it wasn't some sort of weenie minded competition, I just surveyed the letters and made up my mind about who (from the letters coming in from Florida) displayed to me that they really GOT what the band was about, that they understood and could connect to Trey's agenda.



I did the same sort of thing with you Brad, you were always welcome to my home and did in fact stop by even before you shipped out for your own new adventures in the military. Nothing has changed and the door is still open to you if you were to ring that door bell.

I know there are tons of stories that you guys had while in the underground that involved bands and the death metal scene, but if you could choose one in particular experience that really stands out to you that is interesting or funny or whatever and share it with the rest of us? (Blood weed comes to mind Alan, heh heh).

Brian – One that stands out in my memory is seeing Disharmonic Orchestra play in a basement in Belle Vernon, PA in 1990. Back then I had regular correspondence with a bunch of people from Pittsburgh and went there often for shows, enough that a few people that I met at shows there thought that I lived in the Pittsburgh area. I like collected concert flyers so I always asked people to use the back of flyers to write their letters to me, and one day a letter came from someone in Pittsburgh and the flyer they used was announcing an upcoming show for Disharmonic Orchestra in Belle Vernon (a bit south of Pittsburgh), scheduled to play were also Bathym, Hideous Mangleus, Exit 13 and Rottrevore. So, right away I sent for my ticket and arrange with Sean of Psychoslaughter ‘zine to stay at his place the night of the show (it was about 4 hours from the Buffalo area where I lived). I arranged with Sean to meet at Eides records in Pittsburgh before the show. Day of the show, two friends and I make the journey down to Pittsburgh and get to Eides records and quickly think of one fatal flaw in my plan that had been overlooked...I had no idea what Sean looked like. I knew Rob Tabachka (Eviction) who worked at Eides and happened to be working that day so I asked if he knew Sean, which as fate goes, he did not. So, my friends and I just perused the metal section for a bit and Sean came up and found me, noticing that the records (yes records, not cd’s) we were looking at and being able to tell that we weren’t locals. We exchanged the video tapes we were trading (he gave me a kickass one that included Deceased playing at the Odyssey in Belle Vernon) and then told me that his mother changed her mind and we couldn’t stay there after all. Well, we had driven that far and there was no way we were missing that show, even if we had to sleep in the car that night. On to Belle Vernon and the Rotting Grandma Amphitheater as the venue was billed (it was a kid’s backyard). We followed winding roads and up a small hill with dirt road to get there, parked amidst the others there. Almost immediately we were greeted by a friend, Don Crotsley of Nun Slaughter, and he was our saviour. We told him how we no longer had a place to stay and he graciously offered up his place for the night. Then the show began, overcast day so we all feared the oncoming rain. First up was Hideous Mangleus, whom if memory serves correctly actually got to finish an entire set. Next up was Rottrevore, think they finished one or two songs then the rain started so they had to stop to wait out the rain. The rain was short-lived so Rottrevore took the stage again, but again the rain came and they had to stop. This happened a few more times before the rain became steady and we all had to wait it out in our cars. The rain kept coming down and Exit 13 stated it was getting too late for them to play and they headed on home to eastern PA. With no sign of the rain stopping it was decided to pack up Disharmonic Orchestras equipment and a little bit of the pa system and have that set up in the basement. Once everything was set up and they were ready we all began to head into the house, at that moment Don stated aloud that this was something historical and should be taped. He stated that he had a radio and asked if anyone had a blank tape. As luck would have it I did have a blank tape with me so I got that and Don put it in his radio and to the basement we went. Disharmonic Orchestra put on a great set and the sound was surprisingly great for them playing in a basement with pa only for the vocals. I still have the original cassette used to record that show, along with the flyer and my ticket.

Alan - hahahaha, Well you made that easy for me didn't you old friend? hehe There's of course others like sweaty, sand filled undies, cheeto fingers and foggy car windows involving nameless Volley Club skanks, myself and Mitch Harris, but we won't go there because you want to hear about the blood weed haha.



We had met up with a prospective manager, Gunter Ford, on the road my first time in 1990, and he formally introduced us to a band on his books called RIPPING CORPSE. I'd heard their demo and some live stuff but had no contact with them at all previously - and we were all just totally blown away by this bunch of lost boys. They were unique and committed and lived the life and walked the walk and talked the talk, they were the real thing and musically quite isolated from any other band any of us could think of. Throughout that entire tour we'd all play the fuck out of their demo and keep rewinding it to certain parts, playing it again, and just grin at each other and nobody had to say a single word. Then it would get rewound and played again, and again and again, every time that sinister grin on everyone's faces.



We met them and those of us who partied did so alongside them and they were gracious enough to allow us to use their practice space to warm up for the upcoming shows, and reciprocated with a private rehearsal - which can you imagine made me feel like one of the most fortunate men on Earth right then.



We played a few gigs at the start of that little mini-tour with them, then parted company, only to hook up again towards the end...during this time we hung out in the basement of the Rhoades House which was this old 3 story home Shaune and Erik lived in, in Redbank NJ. They had the basement and top floor, the Rhoades family occupying the ground floor with this dog that wanted to consume me and shit me out as soon as possible.

Trey was enraptured by Shaune and Erik's guitar work in particular so it was a given we were to hang out with them and a historical relationship between the bands was born. During this night, a massive opium bowl was produced looking like some sort of warped cephalopod, arms (pipes) all over the place and a mountain of weed sitting in the middle, and those who felt they wanted to partake in this special communion let their own blood onto the mountain, mixing the essences of those individuals with the weed and it went around the circle.



That was when I was bonded to both bands and their members forever, as insane as some will say that is, or as cool as others would say it is - it still happened and still means a great deal to me. I do not write, speak, or think to or about any of those guys without those memories right at the forefront of my mind.

Any future projects you might consider collaborating on with each other or anything in the works individually?

Brian - Well, first we have to finish this project and see how it goes. So, far it seems to be widely accepted but it is yet to be seen if all the great compliments equate to real sales. If we can put this out and not go broke in the process, I’m sure more projects will follow. We have more than enough pics for a volume 2 and probably even a volume 3. I think though, we will both need a bit of a break before beginning another project. This has been a great experience, but a lot of work... 4 -5 hours per night weekdays and up to 8 hours a day on weekends continuously for the last 2 months. I love doing this project but will be very glad when it is done and I can take a bit of break from looking at the computer screen for so long.

Alan - I haven't got anything in mind, other than maybe some more books. No matter what though, I wouldn't want to work with anyone else other than Brian, I'm sold. The guy is someone whom any business would want on their team, whatever it is, on whatever level it is. I wished I'd started releasing records with him instead of that fuckin total bastard thief I ended up trying to work with in 1990. I can't imagine what we would have achieved if we'd been a team then.



There is going to be hopefully a special limited CD with our book, and we are working on that as we work on the book, but it's slow going, and involves much more headache in many ways than the book.



Anything's possible. Right now though all that matters is GLORIOUS TIMES so we are giving that all the attention.

I’ll leave any Final Words to both of you? Impart your vast death metal wisdom upon us! Heh heh.

Brian – I’m not sure if I really have any death metal wisdom to impart. I’d just like to say that I hope people enjoy the book a quarter as much as I’ve enjoyed putting it together with Alan. I wouldn’t trade this experience for nearly anything. It has been truly great catching up with old friends and acquaintances and having the opportunity to be the first to read their stories and see their pics. Check out our myspace page for updates on the books progress, the occasional rare pic and other goodies - http://www.myspace.com/glorioustimesdeathbook

Alan - My final words are that I am proud of YOU and your webzine, you've come a long long way from when I lost touch with you. You embrace the pioneering spirit and have been a great help to Brian and I in doing this interview, and of course all the letters and trading we've been doing lately.



Maybe I'll come off that original SARCOFAGO vinyl collection yet hahahaha. I value your opinion and efforts to direct me towards interesting bands, and avenues to aid us in spreading the word about our book. I hope some of your readers will want to pre-order it when we announce the book as being available (I believe that's when we will offer the rare CD, only to those who pre-order).



Maniac, if you happen to read this interview, contact us please, sorry I lost touch in 2006 I moved to Ohio (in the middle of a tick infested corn field) and had no internet.



I got to say too that I find your combination of music and TEQUILA a really odd little idea, but cool, I'd have thought of hot sauces myself, but that's just me, I love hot sauce.



Thanks again old friend - and to the readers, you'll know if you are interested in GLORIOUS TIMES or not, there'll be people bitching and whining about this or that concerning it (you know, why didn't we include this band or that, how come this band from some place with a rare 2 1/2 copies demo recorded on a telephone answering machine isn't raved about etc), but if you can get past all that and see it for what it is then you are in for a real special experience. Brian's given everyone the official myspace url we launched September 22 2009, so anyone that comes to us through NOCTURNAL CULT webzine please be sure to tell us one way or the other that's who sent you.