On the first episode of Sarah Silverman‘s new Hulu show I Love You, America, she spoke with former Westboro Baptist Church member Megan Phelps-Roper.

Phelps-Roper famously left the church after being talked out of the hate group by people she argued with on Twitter. (She later married one of them.)

So if you have a few minutes to spare, listen to this rather wonderful interview about someone who underwent a radical change.

I loved this line: “Extremists generally are not psychopaths. They’re psychologically normal people who’ve been persuaded by bad ideas.”

As Phelps-Roper often says in her public comments, you have to give people like her a chance to change. Writing them off as bigots or treating them like monsters, even when they’re acting like it, isn’t going to do the trick. But trying to talk sense into them, even if it seems futile, might be successful.

Eventually.

