Sure enough, in the News Corporation’s planning discussions about the local New York section, the talk has been less about what The Journal would gain than about “killing The New York Times,” according to several people with direct knowledge of the preparations, who asked for anonymity to discuss what are supposed to be secret matters. “It’s not an economic decision,” one of them said.

“These guys could conceivably siphon off 10, 20 percent of the local retail ads The Times gets,” said a former executive of Dow Jones, the News Corporation unit that includes The Journal. “It’s not enough to kill The Times, but in this environment, every little bit hurts.”

Scott Heekin-Canedy, president and general manager of The Times, said that The Journal’s plan “presents a little bit of short-term pressure” on Times ad sales, but not a long-term threat.

Audrey Siegel, president of TargetCast tcm, a Manhattan media agency, said that The Times was unlikely to lose a significant part of its advertising, but it might be forced to offer discounts and other incentives. “For advertisers who want to experiment with this, the money’s got to come from some place else, and the fair game is The Times, local radio and cable,” she said.

Several major retailers declined to comment on The Journal’s New York section, but Mary Ellen Keating, a spokeswoman for Barnes & Noble, said: “We would wait to see how this or any other new media vehicle performs, then see how and if it fits our needs.”

The News Corporation has not disputed reports that it is investing $15 million a year in the New York section, with an editorial staff of about 35 people to start, out of a newsroom of more than 750 people. Some of those staff members will be new hires, but others are being transferred from other Journal departments. Several of the hires, including the editor of the section, John Seeley, worked at The New York Sun, a broadsheet Mr. Murdoch admired, which closed in 2008.