RemarK Profile Blog Joined April 2011 United States 452 Posts Last Edited: 2012-11-13 03:25:18 #1



Build order skeleton:



+ Show Spoiler + *Constant Probe production unless explicitly told to cut probes*



9 Pylon



Chrono probes twice



13 Gateway



14 Gas (scout the inside of your base and your natural with the probe that makes your assimilator on 2-player maps to prevent proxies, or start scouting bases on 4-player maps)



15 @25 Energy Chrono probes again



16 Pylon



18 Cybernetics core



18 Cut probes briefly



18 Gas



18 Zealot



20 Resume probe production



*Note: this probe cut is to be safe against 10-gate all-ins or 12-gate 4-gates on smaller maps like Ohana. On bigger maps, you can safely go 18 gas 19 Zealot without cutting probes.



21/22 Pylon before Cybercore finishes



@Cybercore 100% complete: start and Chrono warptech



@100 gas: queue up Sentry and chronoboost gateway.



Send Zealot to the top of your ramp. Optional: on 2-player maps, you can send this Zealot to the watchtower to spot for early pressure farther in advance.



@150 gas: build Stargate



@100% Sentry: start Zealot



30 Cut probes briefly



30 Add 2x Gateways



30 Pylon



30 Resume probe production



@100% Zealot: start second Sentry. This Sentry is not needed if you scout your opponent not being aggressive early on - otherwise, you will want it to defend against gateway pressures / all-ins. If you're not sure what your opponent is doing, or just like being as safe as possible, just make this Sentry every time.



@100% Stargate: start and Chrono a Phoenix - send it to your opponents base while dodging watch towers to scout his tech. Constantly produce and Chrono Phoenixes until you scout something causing you to do otherwise.



@100% Warptech: start +1 Air Attack upgrade (you can only do this if you didn't build the 2nd Sentry). There's a few reasons why we get +1 Air Attack blind: first, we can cancel it without any drawback if we scout something like Robo or Twilight play. Second, it gives us a good advantage in any Phoenix mirror by having a huge jump start on the air upgrades. Third, sometimes in a Phoenix mirror, players hide their phoenix - this is risky play because they aren't scouting but it gives them an advantage if they intercept your first Phoenix. Having a headstart on your air upgrades negates the advantage of a player who does this. Note: don't bother with this if you're in a lower league (Plat or below, let's say). It will probably stress you out and distract you from more important things, so you should only do this if you have the APM and attention span to remember to cancel it if necessary.



That covers the early game of this build order - now, we're going to look at how to react based on what we have scouted. Keep in mind, these reactions are basic guidelines, not absolute rules. There might be a few situations that are really weird and aren't covered here, or that require special consideration. You will have to learn to identify those on your own and discover responses that work for you.





Mid-game Reactions:



+ Show Spoiler + Scout Stargate: keep making and Chronoing Phoenix constantly, and let your +1 Air Armor upgrade finish. Phoenix mirror is all about maintaing the air advantage. Don't be too aggressive with your phoenix - if they have an extra Phoenix than you and intercept your fleet, you'll quickly discover that Phoenix cannot retreat from Phoenix once tagged. Your decision tree for this scenario is pretty straightforward: if he tries to expand, add a 4th Gateway and kill him when your +1 Armor is done with constant Phoenix production up till your attack. If he stays on 1-base, you can expand when your +1 Armor upgrade is 30 seconds away from finishing (the rush distance on most maps) and add a 4th Gateway after expanding.



After expanding, he will either all-in you (which you should be able to hold by outproducing him on 4-gates and with a superior armor upgrade on your Phoenix) or expand himself behind you. If he expands, you want to start mining at least 1 Gas at your natural quickly, and take the second geyser once you have the mineral income to support it as well. Add a 2nd Stargate, continue making Phoenix, and start +1 Air Attack. After your second Stargate has kicked in for a minute, you can start to get much more aggressive with your Phoenix (you should have numbers on him) and start to take map control and dictate the pace of the game.



Scout Robotics Bay: produce Phoenix constantly with Chrono and don't bother investing in immortals or a Robotics Facility. The benefit of skipping Robo is that you can invest some more resources in units and less in tech, and have a higher Phoenix count than you would have otherwise. He won't have the gas to produce both lots of Colossus and a high stalker count, so just focusing on Phoenix production gives you a very powerful and mobile fleet that he will never have an answer for. If he 1-bases, you should be able to hold with a Phoenix + gateway unit composition and better economy - try to use your Phoenix to kill probes in his main (prioritize probes on Gas) and then bring the Phoenix home to defend. If he expands, you can do the same and start teching to Robotics Facility and then Colossus yourself. At this point, the game becomes a standard Colossus vs Colossus PvP midgame except you have a handful of Phoenix and more map control, huzzah!



Scout Twilight with Research, 3-4 gates, and no Robotics (aka Blink All-in): start a Robotics Facility and warp in 2 or more sentries immediately (you need them to start accumulating extra energy for forcefielding your ramp). After the robo is done, chronoboost Immortals constantly and forcefield your ramp when he is trying to attack you so that he never gets vision of the highground. Use your Phoenix to lift and kill probes while he is attacking to make his attack 100% committed. You can also use your Phoenix to snipe his probe that he sends on the map to build proxy pylons if he's not careful.



Note: there is a variant of this build that gets a single Sentry early on and then researches Hallucination to make a Phoenix for high-ground vision. You can identify this build by spotting his Cybernetics core still researching after Warp tech is done. Against this variant, you should snipe the Sentry with your Phoenix and then use the same defense as before. It's fine to lose Phoenix to get the Sentry as long as he only has 1 - without that Sentry, his attack is delayed by over a minute (new Sentry needs to get 50 energy for Hallucinate) and is 2 stalkers weaker (replacement Sentry = 100 gas = 2 less Stalkers). One alternative defense against the hallucination variant is to make stalker zealot + phoenix constantly without making a robo, and use your phoenix to lift his stalkers and negate their ability to blink. If you go for this defense, make sure your phoenix are at home and positioned carefully to grab his stalkers.



Scout Dark Shrine / a suspiciously Gas-free main base: start your Robotics facility immediately (ideally, build it in a corner or against other buildings so that you can wall it off with more buildings in an emergency), and position your units to make a wall at the ramp with Zealots in front and Sentries behind. It doesn't hurt to start making Pylons at the top of your ramp to create a partial wall as well (leave a Probe there so that you can complete the wall in an emergency). Keep making Phoenixes, and scout for hidden bases or anything else weird - if he attacks, make sure to park your Phoenix above his probe line and keep lifting them while he is defenseless. Your units out of the Robotics Facility should be Observer, Immortal, Immortal, to be safest against an Archon bust followup.



Sometimes, people will go for an archon bust immediately with 4-gates and their first warp-in of DTs. Against that, you should make a tight wall off and warp in stalkers, and use your stalkers to focus the Archon down. Once the Archon is down, you can just forcefield your ramp against his zealots and stalkers. If he expands, use the Phoenix for harass while expanding and teching to Colossus and prepare to play against a Chargelot - Archon composition. If he doesn't expand, you can expand cautiously and simcity your natural with a wall of buildings to reduce the effectiveness of Chargelot - Archon. Don't tech to Colossus until you know it is safe to do so - if he attacks while your Robotics Bay is building, that's 200/200 less resources in your defense.



Scout 4-gate: instead of starting a Phoenix when your Stargate finishes, start and Chronobost a 3rd Sentry out of your gateway. If he tries to send a probe up your ramp, use your 2 Zealots and 1st Sentry to snipe it. Before warp tech finishes, it is alright to let a single unit up your ramp at a time. Your Zealots, if positioned correctly, will form a wall that prevents him from running by into your main with whatever unit you let up, so you should be getting free kills. If you're not as confident in your micro / positioning and crisis control, just forcefield everything out to be safe. Your first Sentry has a forcefield when it pops, then your second Sentry will have a forcefield when it pops, and by the time the second Sentry's forcefield dissipates, your first Sentry will have another 50 energy ready to forcefield. When that 3rd forcefield expires, your 3rd Sentry will be out and warp tech is done. When the 4th Forcefield expires, you wil have completed a warp-in of 2 Zealots and a Sentry, giving you yet another forcefield (and after this FF, Sentry #2 has energy for another FF - at this point, you have basically infinite time and can warp-in more Sentries as needed or go into Phoenix production). You'll probably start floating minerals towards the end of this as you're making so many Sentries - you can offset this by adding a 4th Gateway (useful for making a counter-push with Phoenix and 4-gates on your opponent) or a Forge (useful for securing your natural expansion and getting upgrades in a macro game).



Scout 2-gate Robo FE: add a 4th Gateway, make Phoenix up to 4, and go kill him. It's incredibly difficult to hold a proper Phoenix push with that build, especially on maps that don't have tiny ramps at the natural. On maps like Ohana / Shakuras that do have such ramps, be creative with your attack - start a lowground Pylon on the cliff next to their main base, fly your Phoenix by to give vision, and warp in 4 Zealots and send them to their mineral line. If they respond by sending in Zealots, just use your Phoenix to defend your own Zealots and keep wrecking havoc. If he sends his Stalkers too, then just fly to his natural, lift his Sentries, and attack with the rest of your army.



Alright, that covers the reactions to all of the most common builds; let's wrap this post up by talking about a few tips and tricks that can help you out with this build.





Tips / Tricks / Thoughts:



+ Show Spoiler +





Pictured: PvP Roman Tortoise, TAiLS style



This keeps your Zealots safely out of his vision from the lowground, and lets your Sentry cast a force field to trap any units that try to peak up.



- If you probe scout and see your opponent taking a 2nd gas, Australian Grandmaster Protoss AVANT.Pezz suggests skipping the first sentry, getting a second Zealot immediately, and building an incredibly fast Stargate with your first 150 gas after your Core finishes. After the second Zealot pops, then you add on your first Sentry and can optionally add on another one after that if you feel pressured.



- In a Phoenix vs Phoenix engagement, it's crucial to keep your Phoenix inside a Sentry's guardian shield bubble regardless of whether you're attacking or defending.



- In a Phoenix vs Phoenix mirror, one way to position your Phoenix is by your watch tower, with a Zealot underneath. If your opponent sneaks around and attacks your probe line, you can come back and cut him off. With good positioning, you'll kill all or most of his Phoenix. This also lets you transition into aggression much quicker, and if you see him sending units or probes out on the map with your vision, you can snipe them safely.



- This is a very tight, Korean-style build. It relies on good control, active scouting, and smart reactions to be successful. Don't be frustrated if you lose a lot as you are figuring things out. The most common things I see people lose to with this build are 4-gates and blink all-ins because they miss their forcefields on the ramp. Play carefully!



- The second most common way to lose with this build is being too greedy after expanding. A basic rule of thumb is that you should never tech faster than your opponent. Your Phoenix are a huge advantage in terms of scouting and map control, so don't blitz to Colossus until you see your opponent's Robotics Bay. This is one of the few builds and playstyles in PvP where it pays off to be "behind" your opponent.



- In a macro game, some people have trouble deciding when to stop making Phoenix. It's situational, but a good rule of thumb is 4-6 Phoenix depending on how active you are with them (if you're really active, 6 Phoenix is good, otherwise, stick to 4). That amount of Phoenix is enough to be a constant harassment threat without being an overcommitment. - In the early game, positioning your Zealots and Sentries properly on the ramp is very important. Your positioning should look something like this:This keeps your Zealots safely out of his vision from the lowground, and lets your Sentry cast a force field to trap any units that try to peak up.- If you probe scout and see your opponent taking a 2nd gas, Australian Grandmaster Protoss AVANT.Pezz suggests skipping the first sentry, getting a second Zealot immediately, and building an incredibly fast Stargate with your first 150 gas after your Core finishes. After the second Zealot pops, then you add on your first Sentry and can optionally add on another one after that if you feel pressured.- In a Phoenix vs Phoenix engagement, it's crucial to keep your Phoenix inside a Sentry's guardian shield bubble regardless of whether you're attacking or defending.- In a Phoenix vs Phoenix mirror, one way to position your Phoenix is by your watch tower, with a Zealot underneath. If your opponent sneaks around and attacks your probe line, you can come back and cut him off. With good positioning, you'll kill all or most of his Phoenix. This also lets you transition into aggression much quicker, and if you see him sending units or probes out on the map with your vision, you can snipe them safely.- This is a very tight, Korean-style build. It relies on good control, active scouting, and smart reactions to be successful. Don't be frustrated if you lose a lot as you are figuring things out. The most common things I see people lose to with this build are 4-gates and blink all-ins because they miss their forcefields on the ramp. Play carefully!- The second most common way to lose with this build is being too greedy after expanding. A basic rule of thumb is that you should never tech faster than your opponent. Your Phoenix are a huge advantage in terms of scouting and map control, so don't blitz to Colossus until you see your opponent's Robotics Bay. This is one of the few builds and playstyles in PvP where it pays off to be "behind" your opponent.- In a macro game, some people have trouble deciding when to stop making Phoenix. It's situational, but a good rule of thumb is 4-6 Phoenix depending on how active you are with them (if you're really active, 6 Phoenix is good, otherwise, stick to 4). That amount of Phoenix is enough to be a constant harassment threat without being an overcommitment.



Replays + Analysis:



+ Show Spoiler +



Phoenix vs Robo FE against Clarity Gaming's SaroVati



Here are a bunch of recent replays from CCalms (Depression) executing the build to give you all a benchmark of good execution and scouting / reactions:



Phoenix vs Phoenix against keydCapoch.



Phoenix vs Blink Obs into Macro game against ROOToD.



Phoenix vs Blink Obs against NrSRaNgeD



Phoenix vs Robo FE against WWStarNaN



Phoenix vs FE against Clarity Gaming's Shew.



Yoshi (CCalms' Korean account) vs Sage. I'm on a new computer so I don't have many replays of myself doing this yet. I'll add more once I get the chance to ladder in the coming days. http://drop.sc/274643 Phoenix vs Robo FE against Clarity Gaming's SaroVatiHere are a bunch of recent replays fromexecuting the build to give you all a benchmark of good execution and scouting / reactions: http://drop.sc/274640 Phoenix vs Phoenix against keydCapoch. http://drop.sc/274639 Phoenix vs Blink Obs into Macro game against ROOToD. http://drop.sc/274638 Phoenix vs Blink Obs against NrSRaNgeD http://drop.sc/274641 Phoenix vs Robo FE against WWStarNaN http://drop.sc/274649 Phoenix vs FE against Clarity Gaming's Shew. http://drop.sc/258800 Yoshi (CCalms' Korean account) vs Sage.





Final Notes:



As with the



Lastly, a friendly reminder: this build is just one of many options that minimize coinflipping in PvP. Hopefully, it will help people discover a sense of stability and enjoyment for the PvP matchup that is often lacking, and it's definitely a fun play style that rewards multitasking and good fundamentals. Let me know how this build works for you and any thoughts or questions you have. Good luck and have fun!



About Me:



+ Show Spoiler + I'm Matt "RemarK" Kramer, a grandmaster Protoss on the NA server. I come from an FPS background (competitive Halo player for 5+ years), and I switched to SC2 starting December 2010. I currently play for Frost eSports . You can learn more about me in my Stream hub thread here on TeamLiquid, or by checking out my stream and Twitter (@remarkiwa)



I frequently hear people complaining about how PvP is a coinflip, or a build-order dependant matchup. I could not disagree with this statement more - I think PvP is a fairly stable matchup where a smarter and better player will dominate a lesser-skilled opponent. Let's look at MVPTAiLS' phoenix play in PvP as an example of how to not flip coins and use an intelligent, well-rounded build to come out even or ahead vs other openers. Special thanks to Grandmaster Protoss CCalms for showing me this build and helping me with the various responses - you can check out his stream here to learn more cool builds from him.As with the post about STPartinG's Immortal Sentry all-in, I've decided to post this to my blog here on TeamLiquid rather than as a formal guide in the Strategy section because it is not very in-depth and I don't want to commit to updating it or answering everyone's questions. That said, I will still do my best to answer and reply to people asking questions on this post.Lastly, a friendly reminder: this build is just one of many options that minimize coinflipping in PvP. Hopefully, it will help people discover a sense of stability and enjoyment for the PvP matchup that is often lacking, and it's definitely a fun play style that rewards multitasking and good fundamentals. Let me know how this build works for you and any thoughts or questions you have. Good luck and have fun! Thug means never having to say you're sorry | Grandmaster Protoss | www.twitch.tv/tsremark | @remarkiwa