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cyber_rigger



Jul 21, 2006

6:02 PM EDT I am putting together a list of companies that sell pre-installed Linux and no-OS computers. It is aimed at the LOWER PRICED Desktops and Laptops. Think consumer product, Desktops (Workstations) for less than $1000, Laptops (Notebooks) for less than $2000.



I got fed up with the major computer OEMs spamming Linux sites with "that other operating system" so I created this list.



Examples of spamming are shown here. http://lxer.com/module/forums/t/23609/



The goal is to make it EASIER for "+" beginners (and advanced users) to find the computer they need. Please add to my list. Extra points if the Linux machines are easy to find with pricing and if there is an online store. Recent Linux versions please.



The company doesn't count if they advertise Linux, then spam you with MS Windows.



I will try to point out difficult hardware when I find it.



http://lxer.com/module/forums/t/29082/



This is my list so far (updated 8/26/2009).



Computers with preinstalled Linux: "+" means beginner friendly



Linux usually comes with thousands of free programs, (often with Desktops the monitor is NOT included).



http://www.alvio.com/ Desktops (Fedora +SuSE +Ubuntu) Laptops (Fedora +Ubuntu)



http://www.amazon.com Desktops (+Linspire +Xandros) Laptops (+Ubuntu) website: go to electronics and search for "Linux"



* http://www.amnet-comp.com Desktops (Debian Redhat Slackware)



* http://www.asaservers.com/ Desktops (call-users-choice) Laptops (Fedora)



* http://www.aslab.com/products/products.html Desktops (Fedora +SuSE) Laptops (Fedora +SuSE)



http://www.carrefouronline.carrefour.es/ Desktop (+Ubuntu)



http://www.cheapestpc.com.au/ Desktops (+Ubuntu)



* http://www.cheeplinux.com/ Desktops (CentOS Fedora +Mandriva +Ubuntu)



* http://www.cosmoseng.com/cgi-bin/cosmos/index.html Desktops (+Mandriva +Ubuntu) Laptops (Fedora +SuSE Redhat)



* http://custombarebones.com/catalog/category_263_Linux_System... Desktops (Fedora +SuSE Redhat)



* http://www.dnuk.com/ Desktops (Debian Fedora +SuSE +Ubuntu)



http://dse.co.nz Laptops (+Ubuntu +Xandros) website: Search "Linux"



* http://www.efficientpc.co.uk/systems/ Desktops (+Ubuntu)



* http://sales.eightvirtues.com/ Desktops (+Ubuntu)



* http://www.emperorlinux.com/ Laptops (EmperorLinux +Ubuntu Redhat Debian +SuSE Slackware +Mandrake)



* http://www.eracks.com/ Desktops (Centos Debian ELX BSD Gentoo +Mandriva +Ubuntu Icepack +SuSE +Xandros) Laptops (CentOS Debian Fedora BSD Gentoo +Mandriva +Ubuntu +SuSE +Linspire Redhat)



http://www.gamepc.com/ Desktops Laptops (Fedora +SuSE) website: Custom Systems



* http://www.geekstop.co.uk/ Desktop (+SuSE)



* http://www.gigastrand.com/store/Store.htm Desktops (Mint)



http://www.globalcomputer.com/applications/searchtools/item-... Desktops (+Linspire)



* http://www.ibexpc.com/ Desktops (Fedora Redhat +SuSE +Ubuntu +Xandros)



http://www.idotpc.com/ Desktops (+Linspire)



* http://www.ikbenstil.nl/ Desktops (+Ubuntu)



* http://www.keynux.com Desktops Laptops (Fedora +Mandriva)



* http://laclinux.com/ Desktops (Debian Fedora +Ubuntu Redhat Slackware +SuSE)



* http://www.linux-service.be/catalog/index.php?cPath=1 Desktops (Fedora Gentoo +Kubuntu Mandriva +SuSE +Ubuntu Slackware) Laptops (+Kubuntu +Ubuntu +SuSE Slackware +Mandriva Gentoo Fedora Debian)



* http://www.linuxcertified.com/ Laptops (+Ubuntu Fedora +SuSE)



* http://www.linuxcomp.net/ Desktops (+Ubuntu) Laptops (+Ubuntu)



* http://www.linuxcomputersystems.com/ Desktops (Fedora +Linspire RedHat +SuSE +Mandriva)



* http://www.linuxemporium.co.uk/products/laptops/ Laptops (+Ubuntu +SuSE)



* http://www.thelinuxlaptop.com/index.php Laptops (+Ubuntu LinuxMint)



* http://www.mingos.nl/ Laptops (+Ubuntu)



* http://openforeveryone.co.uk/ Desktops (+Ubuntu) Laptops (+Ubuntu)



* http://www.pogolinux.com/ Desktops (Fedora Redhat +SuSE +Ubuntu)



* http://www.pugetsystems.com/alternate_os.php Desktops (+Ubuntu) Laptops (+Ubuntu)



* http://shoprcubed.com/ Desktops (+Ubuntu +SuSE)



* http://www.sub500.com/mainpage.htm Desktops (+Linspire) Laptops (+Linspire)



http://us.shuttle.com/kpc/ Desktops (Foresight)



* http://www.swt.com/ Desktops (Debian Fedora Redhat +SuSE) Laptops (Debian Fedora Redhat +SuSE)



* http://www.system76.com/ Desktops (+Ubuntu) Laptops (+Ubuntu)



http://www.tigerdirect.com Desktops (+Ubuntu) website: search for "Ubuntu"



http://www.transtec.co.uk/ Desktops Laptops (+SuSE)



* http://www.vgcomputing.com.au Desktops (Redhat Fedora CentOS +Mandriva Debian +Ubuntu +Kubuntu +Mepis Gentoo Slackware +SuSE)



* http://www.zareason.com/ Desktops (+Ubuntu) Laptops (+Ubuntu) * http://www.zareason.de/ Desktops (+Ubuntu Debian) Laptops (+Ubuntu Debian)



* http://ztechshop.net/ Desktops (+SuSE Vector)







* These vendors give you a clue (on their homepage) that they sell Linux computers.



+ "Beginner" versions of Linux (per wikipedia.org 8/7/2006): Ark, Linspire, Mandriva, Mepis, Parsi, Puppy, Sauver, SuSE, Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Edubuntu, Xubuntu, Xandros



Comparison of Linux distributions: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Linux_distributio...



Comparisons of Linux applications: http://www.linuxrsp.ru/win-lin-soft/table-eng.html http://www.linuxscrew.com/2007/11/22/windows-software-linux-...



Here are some other lists and info:



http://tuxmobil.org/reseller.html http://www.us.debian.org/distrib/pre-installed http://www.linux.org/vendor/system/index.html http://tuxmobil.org/ (general information) http://mcelrath.org/laptops.html Laptops/Notebooks http://www.starryhope.com/pre-installed-linux-notebooks/ http://linuxpreloaded.com/



Linux Flash-Laptops http://www.eeeuser.com/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OLPC



No-OS, Computers without Operating System (for those who want to install their own Operating System):



http://www.adamant.com/ Desktops Laptops http://www.avadirect.com/ Desktops Laptops http://www.com4.nl/ Desktops http://www.cyberpowerpc.com/ Desktops Laptops http://www.goldenelectronics.co.uk/ Desktops http://www.hypersonic-pc.com/ Desktops Laptops http://www.ion-technologies.com/ Laptops http://store.madtux.org/ Desktops/ http://www.ncix.com/ Desktops http://www.mtechlaptops.com/ Laptops http://www.mwave.com/ Laptops http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/ Desktops Laptops http://www.pcsforeveryone.com/ Laptops http://www.powernotebooks.com/ Laptops http://www.rjtech.com/ Laptops http://www.topmicrousa.com/laptops-notebooks.html Laptops http://www.systemax.com/divisions.htm Desktops Laptops http://www.unitedmicro.com/ Desktops Laptops http://xnbs.com/ Laptops http://www.xtremenotebooks.com/ Laptops http://www.zepto.com/ Laptops



Miscellaneous, pending, language translation needed:



* http://www.damnsmalllinux.org/store/Mini_ITX_Systems/Damn_Sm... Nano-Desktop (DSL) http://www.gelecek.com.tr/index.php?m0=1&m1=48&m2=0



* http://linutop.com/ diskless (+xubuntu) http://www.pegasosppc.com/ Desktops



* http://www.pricepc.com/ Desktops (Fedora +Linspire) * http://www.terrasoftsolutions.com/ Desktops (Yellowdog) http://www.thelinuxshop.co.uk/ http://storeanywhere.com/ http://www.yellowsheepriver.org/products_e.htm Municator TV PC



Linux PVR: http://store.interact-tv.com/store/

grouch



Jul 21, 2006

6:14 PM EDT That's an impressive list. I only knew about 2/3 of those.



Thanks!

cyber_rigger



Jul 21, 2006

6:54 PM EDT I figured that instead of whining about the big OEMs we should promote the companies that actually care about desktop Linux.



It would be nice someday to have a master site as a "Linux computer finder".



For now you can just pass this list around.



We need to convince the shopping engine sites to have a Linux computer catagory.



For example I was sending suggestions to pricescan.com for a "Linux" OS choice. They now have a "Linux" selection when for searching for computers (although they have a very limited selection).



These also have a limited Linux OS category Pricegrabber.com nextag.com



Here are some other shopping engines to pester. bizrate.com shop.com



Suggest to them that they need a 'select by OS' feature (with Linux). Send them my list of merchants, too. :^)

hkwint



Jul 22, 2006

2:41 AM EDT Great work cyber_rigger. I remember you doing this work in the past and it seems you have advanced. I might as well spend an article on it, to let everyone know.



I hope I can add some European vendors, will try that when I have some time.

Sander_Marechal



Jul 22, 2006

3:05 AM EDT http://www.com4.nl/ - sells PC's with no OS or XP http://www.pcspeed.nl/ - pre-built systems come with Win XP but if you choose the "build your own" then you can skip the OS (could be a website bug though) http://www.ikbenstil.nl/ - silent computers - with Linux http://www.openoffice.nl/ - Linux powered business networks

cyber_rigger



Jul 22, 2006

9:48 AM EDT Digg and reddit links.



Digg http://tinyurl.com/l2mcs (It looks like Digg is blocking directs from lxer.com)



reddit http://reddit.com/info/as1k/comments

Scott_Ruecker



Jul 22, 2006

10:01 AM EDT Here is the link again if anyone was getting the same error I was.



http://digg.com/linux_unix/Companies_selling_preinstalled_Li...



Your right , they are blocking it. Why?

jessejoedotcom



Jul 22, 2006

3:16 PM EDT Our company does too - http://www.thecybersource.com/

qxzn



Jul 22, 2006

5:03 PM EDT you've forgotten two of the biggest vendors! http://www.pogolinux.com/ and http://www.penguincomputing.com/

majorw2



Jul 22, 2006

5:07 PM EDT Another company that has no-OS laptops and barebones systems for sale - http://www.GoLinuxShop.com



It's even got Linux in the name, what could be better ? :-)

Scott_Ruecker



Jul 22, 2006

7:39 PM EDT Here are a couple more I found..easy ones though.



For our Canadian Readers http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/category/category_tlc... http://www.thelinuxstore.ca/



and of course the 'U.S.' version http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/category/category_tl...

twickline



Jul 23, 2006

1:03 AM EDT http://xnbs.com/

hkwint



Jul 23, 2006

2:26 AM EDT http://www.pegasosppc.com/products.php



PPC's with Linux preinstalled

jawahar



Jul 23, 2006

2:49 AM EDT where can i find linux pre-installed notebooks in japan?

hkwint



Jul 23, 2006

9:07 AM EDT Of course I can't read Japanese, but look here,



http://linux.toshiba-dme.co.jp/linux/indexj.htm



and if it is possible to buy Linux laptops over there, please let us know!

hkwint



Jul 23, 2006

9:20 AM EDT Found more Linux desk- / laptops:



NL - http://www.ciao-shopping.nl/Desktops_5002_2-linux FR - Ubuntu barebones http://www.zinside.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=9&gcl... FR - [url=http://www.toptaupe.com/shopping/results.aspx?q=linux ordinateurs]http://www.toptaupe.com/shopping/results.aspx?q=linux ordina...[/url]



Pretty high-end: US - http://laclinux.com/en/Workstation





hkwint



Jul 23, 2006

9:30 AM EDT Interesting:



Linux.com have their own Linux desktop / laptop vendors list.



http://www.linux.org/vendor/system/desktop.html http://www.linux.org/vendor/system/laptop.html

cyber_rigger



Jul 23, 2006

9:35 AM EDT hkwint



From your Dell link.



"Dell does not officially support running Linux on Dell laptops." "Dell does not officially support running Linux on Dell desktops."



IMO Dell does NOT CARE about desktop Linux.

jonbach



Jul 23, 2006

10:56 AM EDT Our company is happy to offer no-OS computers as well, hope this isn't considered spamming :)



http://www.pugetsystems.com



We have plan to offer Linux (likely Fedora or Ubuntu) as a free preinstalled option soon, but for now while we do not list it as an option, you can simply ask for it and we can put it on. No software tech support is offered, however.

cyber_rigger



Jul 23, 2006

11:09 AM EDT jonbach



"We have plan to offer Linux (likely Fedora or Ubuntu) as a free preinstalled option soon.."



Great, I'll put it on my 'to watch' list.



I find it useful to mention Linux, etc. on your site's home page.

Iain



Jul 23, 2006

1:55 PM EDT http://openforeveryone.co.uk/

hkwint



Jul 23, 2006

1:59 PM EDT Quoting: IMO Dell does NOT CARE about desktop Linux.



Read past that, already wondering what changed. Nothing, it seems. Removed Dell from my post.

grouch



Jul 23, 2006

2:04 PM EDT cyber_rigger:



I've added a link to this thread from my website: http://edge-op.org/links1.html#hardware



I suggest it may be helpful if others do the same; may as well make it easy for people to stumble onto this collection. :o)

hkwint



Jul 23, 2006

2:15 PM EDT The readers from Digg pointed to some sites. Most of them are already in this list, except for:



http://www.terrasoftsolutions.com/ PPC Linux Pre-installed http://secure.hypersonic-pc.com/scripts/custom_sys.aspx?sysi... No-OS

cyber_rigger



Jul 23, 2006

2:57 PM EDT Attention potential Linux, no-OS vendors



If Microsoft tries to bully you here is the place to complain.



http://www.thetc.org/

dcparris



Jul 23, 2006

4:30 PM EDT jonbach: > hope this isn't considered spamming :)



FYI - Ordinarily it would be. In this case the OP has solicited the info, so I'm allowing it. In most cases, I would suggest submitting an announcement via the Story Submission link. In fact, I encourage you to do so when you "officially" support it. :-)



I agree that it would be good to see your company slap a gnu, a penguin, or at least the logos of the distros you intend to offer on the front page. Even refering to GNU/Linux systems in your front page text is a plus. That let's the community know you're serious about supporting us, thus giving us reason to give serious thought to supporting your company. ;-)

Scott_Ruecker



Jul 24, 2006

2:24 AM EDT Here is another one too.



http://www.reddog.com.au/

herve76



Jul 25, 2006

5:28 AM EDT You've forgotten a big vendor from France : http://www.zinside.com

tuxchick2



Jul 25, 2006

9:07 AM EDT jonbach, when you get serious about Linux support, which means making it obvious on the front page of your site and supporting it, give us a ring. Until then it's vapor, methinks. Maybe I'm being grumpy, but I really get tired of being treated like a nothing just because I don't want Windows. "Just ask!" No, how about you try to earn my business? Making me sneak in the back door doesn't count.



Thanks everyone for all the good links. Can this be made into a permanent page with a nice link on the front LXer page?

dcparris



Jul 25, 2006

9:15 AM EDT I would like to write an article about this, and I agree we probably should consider a list page linked from the top of the front. I was hoping cyber_rigger would compile the list into one set of links for me, which I could then post as part of the article. I am also contacting a company that sells PCs with Ubuntu pre-installed to ask them further questions. Hopefully, since they initiated the contact, they'll respond soon.

hkwint



Jul 25, 2006

1:54 PM EDT Quoting: Thanks everyone for all the good links. Can this be made into a permanent page with a nice link on the front LXer page?



Was also thinking of that. We should ask Dave to set up another public db, just like we have a list of 'migrations'. In this way, everyone can add companies, and only the maintainer can delete or modify them.



Don:please contact Dave!

cyber_rigger



Jul 25, 2006

2:25 PM EDT Please do write an article.



I've been editing the original post as I see new links. I haven't gone through the other lists yet (I do have a daytime job). :^)



For now lets say desktops under $1000 and laptops under $2000 The goal is to find low priced pre-installed Linux "DESKTOPS" (not servers). If a company just does rack mounts, blades, etc. it doesn't count.



I/We could create a table with:



1. Does the website indicate Linux on their home page? 2. Website URL 3. distros they pre-install 4. types of computers offered desktop, laptop/notebook 5. tips for finding the Linux computer pages, for example search for "ubuntu" etc. Some sites are a PITA to find to the Linux machine offerings. 6. Is Linux support offered?



Would a wiki work here to build the data or would it get spammed out???

Libervis



Jul 25, 2006

3:00 PM EDT Can I add a Croatian company for those in Croatia?



Here it is: http://www.hgspot.hr



They sell alot of PCs with GNU/Linux preinstalled although they do have a choice of WinXP preinstalled ones as well.



And the price of GNU/Linux machines is also lower. :)



Who needs Dell and the likes? ;)



Cheers Daniel

dcparris



Jul 25, 2006

6:12 PM EDT O.k., I've put Dave on notice.

dcparris



Jul 25, 2006

7:29 PM EDT cyber_rigger: I just want to say thanks for this. I am now working with Dave on the idea. Here is how I have laid out the DB to him:



Company_Name varchar City varchar State_Province varchar Country varchar (It's good to know where these vendors are) Distros_Offered varchar No_OS_computers Yes/No (Do they offer boxes without an OS?) Advertise_Front_Page Yes/No Support_Options varchar (It would be good to know what support options they offer) company_url varchar Active_Inactive Yes/No (are they still in business?)



Would we want the last field to be made visible, so as to know "this company used to, but no longer does, offer computers or is out of business"? Or would it be better to simply drop the company from the DB if they are no longer offering GNU/Linux systems (or went out of business)? Perhaps we should distinguish between "out of business" and "no longer offering GNU systems?



Please comment on my layout. I'm not the best DB guru, but I think I covered most of the bases. Tell me now or forever hold your peace!

grouch



Jul 25, 2006

7:40 PM EDT dcparris:



Suggestion: Change "Advertise_Front_Page Yes/No" to "Linux_Front_Page Yes/No".

grouch



Jul 25, 2006

8:00 PM EDT Hmm, I'm not a db guru, but you might save some duplication by using tables, instead of a table:



Company co_id int, primary key co_name varchar 255 co_addr varchar 255 co_country varchar 2



Distros d_id int, primary key d_name varchar 128 d_link text



Computers co_id int references company.co_id d_id int references distros.d_id



The company name, address and country probably won't change much. The offerings could. Same with distributions -- name and home page won't change, so no sense listing them multiple times, once for each company offering a computer with it.



Probably could stand some refinement, I'm rusty. :)

cyber_rigger



Jul 25, 2006

8:22 PM EDT It would be nice to know if a vendor sold Laptops. Some vendors sell desktops but not Laptops.



As far as the Active_Inactive goes, just remove them if they become inactive.



You could treat the no-OS option just like another distros.



The support info might get messy. You might want to save that for phase II or just not worry about it. One distro might be supported and another one not, You could have a star by the distro name if support is available.





grouch



Jul 25, 2006

8:27 PM EDT cyber_rigger:



Ok.



Computers co_id int, references company.co_id d_id int, references distros.d_id type text



'type' could hold, for example, "desktop", "laptop", "server", or any combination



If 'type' is not null but d_id is null, it's a 'no OS' computer.

cyber_rigger



Jul 25, 2006

10:22 PM EDT I'd even leave out servers. Linux servers are EASY to find. My goal is to make it easy to find the low-end consumer machines with a pre-installed "Linux Desktop OS" or no-OS.



A minimalist table could have these fields.



linux_clue_on_homepage ........ some small marker like a star hompage_url ........................... http:// whatever desktop_distros ....................... no-OS Debian Ubuntu SuSE Fedora etc. laptop_distros ......................... no-OS Debian Ubuntu SuSE Fedora etc. special_directions .................... directions to the Linux/no-OS machine pages (for the stubborn sites)



Some sites keep the Linux/no-OS machines hard to find so directions to find the Linux/no-OS machine pages would be handy.



Here's an example of values for amazon.com



linux_clue_on_homepage ......... hompage_url .......................... http://www.amazon.com/ desktop_distros ...................... Linspire laptop_distros ........................ special_directions .................... computers > Desktops > Narrow by Computer Platform, Linux











Something to keep in mind. If the finished table is text copy and pasteable it's easier to pass around.

hkwint



Jul 27, 2006

4:44 AM EDT Great to see a new db is being born.



What do we do with the Linux.org list? Anyone knows if that list is copyrighted (I believe it may be)?

tuxchick2



Jul 27, 2006

5:30 AM EDT Hans, you can't copyright facts. We could copy the vendor links, no problem. Better not copy the descriptions, unless they're just lifted from the vendor's pages. Their stuff is old anyway, and needs to be checked.



BTW it's linux.org.

hkwint



Jul 27, 2006

5:34 AM EDT Quoting: BTW it's linux.org.



Stupid Hans! Corrected it.

grouch



Jul 31, 2006

9:11 PM EDT I don't see http://store.madtux.org anywhere on the list.

sbergman27



Jul 31, 2006

9:25 PM EDT So, shouldn't this list have some sort of permanent link from the main page or something? What could be more Linux related than how to buy a machine with Linux in the first place?



Edit: Woops. I see that's already on the adgenda.

wind0wsr3fund



Jul 31, 2006

10:02 PM EDT This is an excellent effort and I'm looking forward to seeing it develop. However, in order to offer the most benefit, the issue of the Microsoft Tax needs to be accounted for. Many vendors selling pre-installed GNU/Linux (and even bare-bones) pass the tax off to consumers as a soft cost. For example, emperorlinux is one such company.



By tracking this information on a vendor by vendor basis, consumers will be armed with more information be in a better position to know where their hard earned money is going.

wind0wsr3fund



Jul 31, 2006

10:06 PM EDT dcparris,



Feel free to look at the Microsoft Tax Survey I started on windowsrefund.info. It may help identify what issues are worth tracking.



http://windowsrefund.info/survey

jonbach



Jul 31, 2006

10:55 PM EDT dcparris: >I agree that it would be good to see your company slap a gnu, a penguin, or at least the logos of the distros you intend to offer on the front page



Done :) http://www.pugetsystems.com



It isn't exactly a bold push to Linux, but we have to try it slow for a while to see if the tech support calls drown us!

wjl



Aug 01, 2006

1:00 AM EDT Another one would be



http://lixsystems.com/



and their store at



http://linuxtechtoys.com/



They will provide our new community project with a machine in 3 - 4 weeks (oops, now the news are out - this will be an extra LXer story...)



cheers, wjl

cyber_rigger



Aug 01, 2006

7:26 AM EDT Thanks for the links but,



madtux.org only had barebones (you had to add a CD drive),



pugetsystems.com seems to show only MS Windows



linuxtechtoys.com had barebones and 1 preinstalled (which was not available).



Most sites I've seen use this terminology: Barebones = usually needs additional hardware + OS no-OS = needs OS



These sites would be confusing to 'average joe consumer' wanting to buy a Linux computer.

wjl



Aug 01, 2006

9:45 AM EDT Hmmm I see your point, but the lixsystems sold at linuxtechtoys come with 3 CDs: 2 complete OSses (Fedora 5 and (K)Ubuntu Live), the 3rd is a driver CD for that proprietary OS.



Maybe too much for "average joe", you're probably right. For the rest of us, I call that good Linux support...

tuxchick2



Aug 01, 2006

9:48 AM EDT If we're still talking about making a permanent page all organized, "bare" and "pre-installed" seem like logical categories.

jonbach



Aug 01, 2006

11:12 AM EDT > pugetsystems.com seems to show only MS Windows



Not true :) Please be sure to follow the Penguin link on our homepage for Linux support questions and ordering information. We also show that link on our configuration pages.

SFN



Aug 01, 2006

11:24 AM EDT Quoting: Not true :) Please be sure to follow the Penguin link on our homepage for Linux support questions and ordering information.



I thought the same thing as cyber_rigger. So I went to your page expecting to find a very hidden link. I was surprised when I saw the Penguin logo. It's pretty much right out there in the open. No idea how I missed it the first time.



However, in following it I found this:



Quoting: In order to ensure that every customer is making an informed decision, we are not listing the Linux installation options on our configure page at this time.



How does offering Windows in the ordering process and not Linux help a customer make an informed decision?

sbergman27



Aug 01, 2006

11:35 AM EDT SFN. That's unfair. For 12 long hours Puget Systems has offered Linux right along side of Windows.



I respect dedication. And Puget Systems has proven their dedication in my eyes.



But, like... where was Puget Systems last week and the week before?



We're not so desperate here that we'll jump at anything, you know.

SFN



Aug 01, 2006

11:38 AM EDT Hang on. That wasn't an attack. It was a question. It doesn't make sense to me that hiding a choice would help a customer make a decision. If I'm wrong, I'm very interested in hearing how.

SFN



Aug 01, 2006

11:39 AM EDT Oh. Hehe. I get it now.

cyber_rigger



Aug 01, 2006

11:59 AM EDT My goal was to help the "average joe" buy a Linux computer (without having to buy a MS Windows machine first).



At first, no-OS was about the only option (other than build it from parts). Now we have viable preinstalled Linux vendors.



If we are going to present a main-stream ARTICLE to "joe public" then we need to leave out the geek part.



I say for "phase one" we concentrate on the preinstalled Linux vendors. Tracking the MS tax would be good information too, if there is a way to reliably get it.







What I call "bare bones" is a case w/ powersupply, Motherboard, & processor, maybe memory. What I call "no-OS" has everything but the software.





jonbach



Aug 01, 2006

12:23 PM EDT The question here is whether the average joehas enough sense to know what to buy. That's our fear.



Cynical sounding, I know :) "Linux is free, great I'll take it!" they say...then they end up being dissatisfied because they can't figure out how to use it. Linux is making good progress, but I would still not feel comfortable giving it to just anyone.



It really is a fundamental question: is it better to give both options with equal ease of selection, at the risk of more frustrated customers, or is it better to let those who know they want Linux request it? Believe me when I say it is something we've given a lot of thought. I welcome your input on it! Just remember that it is very easy to say they should be offered equally....but an entirely different matter when *you* are the one customers will be calling when they're upset that they can't get something working like they want.

SFN



Aug 01, 2006

12:36 PM EDT Well, I can see your point. But what you have set up is a system under which people can easily buy not computers but computers with Windows on them.



From reading the info on the configuration pages, one is left with the notion that you are only pushing Windows. You've even got a Vista logo on there. Linux is just mentioned in sort of a "yeah, we can do that too" kind of way.



Of course, that is better than what most vendors do.

wjl



Aug 01, 2006

1:09 PM EDT jonbach> "It really is a fundamental question: is it better to give both options with equal ease of selection, at the risk of more frustrated customers, or is it better to let those who know they want Linux request it?"



That reminds me of a colleague - the oldest one of our company. His hard disk in his private laptop went *bang*, so I told him to get a new one. When he arrived with it, it wasn't a long question: he had no license for anything from Redmond, he had seen Etch on my Dell, he wanted it, he got it.



And now he and his wife tell me each time how easy it all is. I think it's a question of openness to new things, of being able to "let go" of old habits, all that sort of things. Whenever he has a question, I'm helping him - but that's not very often. For the basic "average Joe" like him, who types a letter in OO and browses the web with FF, life is easy. The next computer could be preinstalled or without an OS, he wouldn't care much I think. So no frustration there...



cheers, wjl

cyber_rigger



Aug 01, 2006

2:05 PM EDT "Linux is making good progress, but I would still not feel comfortable giving it to just anyone."



Then don't.



Let the other vendors do it.





grouch



Aug 01, 2006

2:55 PM EDT cyber_rigger: >"madtux.org only had barebones (you had to add a CD drive),"



It presents options for additional RAM, CD or DVD drive, and hard drive.



I don't know what you mean by the title "Companies selling preinstalled Linux and no-OS" if it doesn't include a computer with no OS installed.

jimf



Aug 01, 2006

3:18 PM EDT jonbach said: > The question here is whether the average joehas enough sense to know what to buy. That's our fear.



True, the average joe cam be pretty dense. But is Linux, at least with a KDE interface, any more difficult than Window for a first time user? Certainly not in my experience.



> is it better to give both options with equal ease of selection, at the risk of more frustrated customers



Why do you assume that new users in Linux are going to get any more frustrated than those in Windows? That makes no sense.



> but an entirely different matter when *you* are the one customers will be calling when they're upset that they can't get something working like they want.



And you don't get that in windows... ;-)... Right.



In my experience It's far easier to get help for Linux on the Internet than it is for Windows. So load their bookmarks with Linux help links, and xchat with some good IRC help channels as default. You'll probably never hear from them again except when their ready to order a new system :D



Turn your Linux offering into a positive as in 'we can give you the very latest Linux Distros, preconfigured, and ready to go' (with the cute tux, and, put it on the top position). Put Windows as the after thought 'or we can supply you with a preconfigured Windows install' (that's probably at extra cost I assume?). I just don't see the down side here.





dcparris



Aug 01, 2006

7:10 PM EDT I have been talking with 2 frustrated Windows users - one a non-techie, the other a mainframe operator with little real PC experience. One had an issue with the anti-virus software, the mainframe operator just received his Dell Inspiron that won't play his DVDs, presumably because he hasn't activated his license. The truth is, we really are guessing as to why it won't play - there is no hint whatsoever from the system.



I would highly recommend making both OSes an option. You could just as easily have a handy page explaining the differences in features, etc. It would even be o.k. to post something to the effect of, "switching from Windows to GNU/Linux might require a nominal period of adjustment - anywhere from a few hours to a few days."



That's a suggestion, and I believe a rather viable one at that. But I've never feared a potential backlash. Indeed, there hasn't been any such reaction from the people I've setup with Ubuntu.

jimf



Aug 01, 2006

7:57 PM EDT My experience when I was doing support for Mepis is similar to what Don's saying. People were always commenting how much 'easier' Mepis was than Windows, and that was with the user doing the install. I don't remember anyone ever complaining once it was set up.

wind0wsr3fund



Aug 01, 2006

7:59 PM EDT Another important aspect of the GNU/Linux sales pitch should involve selling the lack of DRM/TCPA/Phone-Home technology that users have grown to expect from Windows. This will actually become more important with each passing day. The first company to invest some brains and cash into an advertising campaign that sells these freedoms will be the first to build a loyal customer base.

cyber_rigger



Aug 01, 2006

8:20 PM EDT I listen to Windows users.



How they run spybot, adaware, Norton antivirus, and have to manually remove some viruses. How they have to do system restores then reinstall their system, do product activation, defragment their hard drives, find device drivers on the internet because they lost their CDs, then let the local geek kid work on their machine, then take it to the local shop for a professional Windows cleaning.



These are "average joes".



IMO Linux is easier.



When my friends ask me to fix their Windows machines I tell them I don't do Windows anymore but I'll install Linux instead.

wjl



Aug 01, 2006

8:34 PM EDT cyber_rigger> "When my friends ask me to fix their Windows machines I tell them I don't do Windows anymore but I'll install Linux instead."



Right, that is my reaction since years. I then explain to them why, in case they ask. And only for *very* good friends on *very* few occasions I sometimes waste my time trying to figure out what went wrong with their M$ - tho I also tell them that I would never advise a friend to keep using that...



The beginning of this was funny. Can you imagine their faces when they heard me saying: "Oh sorry, I don't do Windows since quite some time - instead I'm using BSD"?



cheers, wjl

wind0wsr3fund



Aug 01, 2006

8:34 PM EDT cyber_rigger,



You hit the nail right on the head. The average Windows user has gotten so accustomed to jumping through hoop after hoop just to use their computer. It's like bringing in the dog to get ride of the cat to get rid of the mouse to get rid of the.... and so on, and so on.



They're busy trying to find a serial for their pirated 0day copy of antivirus-solution-of-the-month and I'm saying "virus? what's that?". That's assuming they've negotied a means to connect to the public Internet without fear of Redmond shutting down their computer.



GNU/Linux is so ahead of the game in this regard since (depending on the distro involved) it's just ready to go. This alone is a tremendous selling feature and noone has picked up on it yet. With vista on the horizon and Apple's move to Intel (a DRM preparation strategy), the situation is ripe for exploitation.





jonbach



Aug 01, 2006

10:18 PM EDT Great points. It is indeed possible that it really isn't about the user, but instead that *we*, as a company, would be less able and more frustrated supporting Linux, not because of anything specific to Linux, but just because we've been supporting Windows for years and years, and have gotten darn good at it! If that's the case, then it isn't about Windows vs Linux at all, but about *our* skills and experience as a provider of support. And that is something we can approach knowing we can be sucessful at....just a little time and learning!



Just thinking out loud :) Great thread!

wind0wsr3fund



Aug 01, 2006

10:22 PM EDT I'm sure there are plenty of skilled persons looking for work who could add alot of value to your company. Please keep us informed :)

dcparris



Aug 01, 2006

10:50 PM EDT Jon, I thought about my previous suggestion about making GNU/Linux more available. But this last post confirms my suspicions about your tech support issue. So let me suggest this:



Start by studying a GNU/Linux distro to support it. SUSE or Ubuntu seem to be the best bet. Doesn't really matter which one - just choose the one that suits your tastes. Get familiar with the desktop stuff and provide support for it. You can then expand to another distro. Ideally, you would gradually support at least one RPM-based, and one Apt-based distro.



In the meantime, offer GNU/Linux as an option in the config pages, with the caveat that: "Although we will soon offer support for SUSE Linux, community-based support is currently the only option. If you are comfortable with community support (link to page describing how community support works), and prefer to have GNU/Linux, be sure to select it instead of Windows. If you prefer commercial support, you may want to wait until we provide it."



Incidentally, Ubuntu has commercial support options available already. You could literally offer Ubuntu pre-installed, and a link to the commercial Ubuntu support information - it's right on the Ubuntu site. Granted, it's about $100 for something like a year of support, but that frees you until you can learn to support it yourself. Then you add the support cost into the cost of the PC. You can call it the installation/support fee, if you like.



BTW, that puts $100 in your pocket for every PC sold with Ubuntu or SUSE. How much profit do you make off Windows? And does that carrot cause you to rethink your strategy at all?

jimf



Aug 01, 2006

11:45 PM EDT > They're busy trying to find a serial for their pirated 0day copy of antivirus-solution-of-the-month



Small correction there. Several very good AV companies offer their product free (though granted, not Foss) to individual users.... no need to pirate anything, although, MS's activation access is certainly a valid point... Try adding a different drive or a new CPU and you could be out of luck.



The very fact that a Windows user 'may' have to go through any of this when they are in complyance with MS's 'rules' is certainly a downer, and to my mind, downright insulting. A very practical reason to move to Linux.

cyber_rigger



Aug 02, 2006

6:59 AM EDT jonbach Quoting: It is indeed possible that it really isn't about the user, but instead that *we*, as a company, would be less able and more frustrated supporting Linux, not because of anything specific to Linux, but just because we've been supporting Windows for years and years, and have gotten darn good at it!



I think YOU hit the nail on the head.



I find that Linux problems are easier to track down. Sometimes it's as easy as googling the error message. Since Linux development and testing is open I am more likely to find a web page about the same problem.

dcparris



Aug 02, 2006

7:41 AM EDT Back to the DB discussion from way back, I just submitted to Dave the general idea. I just wasn't sure where to put a couple of the items I thought were important, so will leave that to him to mull over. Anyway, I just wanted to update everyone on where this stands.

dcparris



Aug 02, 2006

9:32 AM EDT Our DB layout was a start, but Dave needed something more along the lines of how we want things to look. Thus, I am submitting this:



Company Name - input text City - input text State or Province - input box Country - input box Computer Types - multi-select box Advertise Linux on Front Page - check box Distros Offered - text box (could use a list box that allows multiple selections) No OS - check box Support Options multi-select box (none, community, vendor support, 3rd party support) Company URL - input text Special Directions - input text(directions to the Linux info on sites that hide it) Active or Inactive - check box (are they still in business?)



Is this sensible?

dcparris



Aug 02, 2006

9:59 AM EDT Dave felt this was just what he needed. We're working on it.

hkwint



Aug 02, 2006

11:02 AM EDT Are 'No OS only' companies allowed? So, the ones who doesn't offer Linux pre-installed PC's, but those who do offer No-OS PC's?



And what's the point of including inactive stores?



The rest is fine.

dcparris



Aug 02, 2006

11:46 AM EDT I just want to be able to de-activate a store that ceases 6 months from now. The owners may add it in, and then go out of business without deleting their submission. We just need a way to make that happen.



Vendors that offer "No OS" boxes are allowed. We're working on a search option that filters those out for non-techies, or those who don't want that option. That will likely happen a little later. Users will be able to browse or search the database normally as well.

hkwint



Aug 02, 2006

11:53 AM EDT Isn't it more sensible to just delete inactive stores?

cyber_rigger



Aug 02, 2006

12:26 PM EDT I also say just delete them, immediately.



Showing a list of inactive stores looks desperate and adds confusion to shoppers.



The list loses credibility.



If a company can't reliably offer a product then don't have them on the list.



I would like to see the no-OS vendors kept on a separate list. Maybe this will encourage them to get on "The" (preinstalled Linux) List.



"The" List will then strive to be the "consumer friendy" list (without the geek distractions).

jimf



Aug 02, 2006

1:13 PM EDT > I also say just delete them, immediately.



> Showing a list of inactive stores looks desperate and adds confusion to shoppers.



> The list loses credibility.



In one way I agree, still, it would be quite informative to see how many of these guys don't make it. maybe make the drop outs available as a 2nd list or link?





sbergman27



Aug 02, 2006

1:17 PM EDT Jimf,



How morbid.



But I kinda agree. Maybe the droppers out could be noted on a private mailing list or something.





jimf



Aug 02, 2006

1:37 PM EDT > How morbid.



Agree, but I still maintain that accurate information should always be available, even if it may undermine one's pet theory. In the end it may suprise us.. either way.

sbergman27



Aug 02, 2006

1:54 PM EDT Agreed, Jim. :-)

dcparris



Aug 02, 2006

2:10 PM EDT My point is not to show them publicly, but to not show the inactive ones anymore. Meanwhile, on the backend, We'll be looking at who stops, and try to find out why. I should be able to check the box "Inactive", and that entry will cease showing up in search and browsing results. But I will make sure Dave is aware of the intent with that.

cyber_rigger



Aug 02, 2006

2:54 PM EDT #3



[url=http://www.google.com/search?q=preinstalled linux&sourceid=mozilla&start=0&start=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8]http://www.google.com/search?q=preinstalled linux&sourceid=m...[/url]

hkwint



Aug 02, 2006

3:06 PM EDT And also #4

dcparris



Aug 02, 2006

3:58 PM EDT :-) How soon til we're number one? Huh, Daddy? Huh? Huh?

grouch



Aug 02, 2006

9:21 PM EDT Delete? From a database?!? Oh you fiends. May the demons called forth by Sarbanes and Oxley descend upon you and smother you in serpentine coils of red tape!



Seriously, you don't delete from a database. You update. Dave knows this, as evidenced by the 'rejected stories' in the LXer database. It's really handy when you accidently 'delete' a story that shouldn't have been. Company data may change and company status may change, but the database shouldn't forget.

Teron



Aug 03, 2006

8:05 AM EDT Sorry for the offtopicness, but I'd like to thank grouch for a good laugh ^^

bug_me_not



Aug 03, 2006

8:13 AM EDT http://www.esysglobal.com for info



http://www.zapkoo.com/esys/ Price starts at SGD 319.00 not sure which distro they use...

random



Aug 03, 2006

9:37 AM EDT Not a huge fan of Dell, but they do sell desktops sans OS which seem to fit the criteria here. Granted, nothing about it on the front page or anything, but I assume that's to keep grandma from accidentally ordering one (acknowledging that I don't know all the details of agreements with you-know-who). Any reason they are unacceptable?



Home / Home Office - Open Source Desktops http://www.dell.com/content/topics/segtopic.aspx/e510_nserie...



Small Business - Open Source Desktops http://content.dell.com/us/en/enterprise/linux.aspx?c=us&cs=...

grouch



Aug 03, 2006

9:51 AM EDT Dell attempts to push MS Windows at every click on the website.

random



Aug 03, 2006

10:04 AM EDT >Dell attempts to push MS Windows at every click on the website.



I have to disagree. I don't feel there is any effort to "push" Windows to me when I browse around. To be fair, they are in the business of selling computers and people (for whatever reason) desire to purchase a Windows PC. Other people desire to purchase a PC without Windows and they have provided that.



Do you mean the "Dell recommends..." message on every single page? Yeah, not exactly a ringing endorsement when it's required of you by agreement.



I goto Dell. Click Home or Small Business. Near the bottom of each Desktop drop-down is Open Source Desktops. Even when I goto customize, there's no option for anything other than including a FreeDOS kit.



Let's be fair.

cyber_rigger



Aug 03, 2006

10:14 AM EDT Quoting: They do sell desktops sans OS



No, you HAVE to receive a copy of FreeDOS.



http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/01/20/microsoft_gets_green...



Dell's contract with Microsoft is their problem not mine.





jimf



Aug 03, 2006

10:16 AM EDT Having worked on a couple of 'home model' Dells, I couldn't recommend then simply because of the proprietary design.

jdixon



Aug 03, 2006

10:19 AM EDT > I goto Dell. Click Home or Small Business. Near the bottom of each Desktop drop-down is Open Source Desktops.



Dell recently revamped their site, and as far as I can tell, this is not true. There is a link to Open Source Desktops on the Small Business page, but there appears to be no way to get to it from the Home or Home Office page.

grouch



Aug 03, 2006

10:25 AM EDT >"To be fair, they are in the business of selling computers and people (for whatever reason) desire to purchase a Windows PC. Other people desire to purchase a PC without Windows and they have provided that."



No, that's not fair, and this list is not about people who want to purchase a PC with MS Windows preinstalled.



>"Do you mean the "Dell recommends..." message on every single page? Yeah, not exactly a ringing endorsement when it's required of you by agreement."



It goes well beyond "not exactly a ringing endorsement", it is flat out anti-competitive, anti-Linux. Dell chose to splash that message which makes them an MS Windows dealer.



See cyber_rigger's comment which began this thread:



"The company doesn't count if they try to trick you into buying MS Windows."



You have to be pretty determined and very watchful to make it through the Dell ordering process without ending up with MS Windows.

random



Aug 03, 2006

10:30 AM EDT >Dell's contract with Microsoft is their problem not mine.



Yes, it's a problem for them. Which they got around by *including* (as opposed to installing) a free OS that I assume no one would install because they have a OS they prefer.



Dell has put forth effort to provide another choice. You may accept or find something more suitable. But you won't find this choice at Gateway or eMachines or your Best Buys or Circuit Citys.



When they made no effort, people complained. Now they are making an effort and it's not enough.

grouch



Aug 03, 2006

10:40 AM EDT >"But you won't find this choice at Gateway or eMachines or your Best Buys or Circuit Citys."



But you will find better choice in the list at the top of this thread. That's the point of that list. If Dell wants to be included, let them make it just as easy to get a computer with Linux preinstalled as it is to get one with MS Windows preinstalled. That is ALL it takes.





jdixon



Aug 03, 2006

10:42 AM EDT > Now they are making an effort and it's not enough.



Are you familiar with the phrase "token effort"?

random



Aug 03, 2006

10:50 AM EDT >No, that's not fair, and this list is not about people who want to purchase a PC with MS Windows preinstalled.



Understood. Which is why this started with me providing links to desktops that do not have anything MS installed.



>"The company doesn't count if they try to trick you into buying MS Windows."



Tricks?! Where's the deception? Do the masses want Linux? I realize that most people don't even know what Linux is, but people want computers. Dell wants to make money. Linux *should* be in more homes in offices, but it is not. Linux *should* run every game and piece of productive software in existance, but it does not.



Dell's "recommendation" is, in fact, forced upon by Microsoft. What's their incentive to "recommend" anything else? To make it a nightmare for support? To get endless calls about Photoshop and Half-Life 2?



How will this progress if we flat-out ignore Dell's offering? Nobody wants to buy a OS-less PC from Dell? Why continue offering? Oh wait, people *do* want a OS-less PC (you know any non-geeks that are up for installing a PC?)? Well, then let's continue to appease the customers.



>You have to be pretty determined and very watchful to make it through the Dell ordering process without ending up with MS Windows.



If you (not *you*) go to Dell, most likely you are there to buy a Windows PC. That's what they do. If you are determined to buy a non-Win PC, there's nothing to be wary of when purchasing their Open Source Desktops (well, be mindful of the software section in ordering in Small Office, but nothing is included by default).



Nowhere in the ordering process for OSD does it ever try to get you to purchase Windows.

grouch



Aug 03, 2006

10:55 AM EDT When I see "Linux" or "GNU/Linux" along with Tux, as prominently displayed on Dell's web site as "Microsoft" and the MS Windows logo, then I will agree that they deserve consideration. Until then, they are no more than one arm of Microsoft's sales department.

random



Aug 03, 2006

10:57 AM EDT >But you will find better choice in the list at the top of this thread.



"Better" is subjective. I'm not saying Dell is ideal, but it *is* a choice.



>That's the point of that list. If Dell wants to be included, let them make it just as easy to get a computer with Linux preinstalled as it is to get one with MS Windows preinstalled. That is ALL it takes.



Why the double standard? There are many listed that provide OS-less PCs. But Dell has to have Linux pre-installed?



>Are you familiar with the phrase "token effort"?



So Dell has to put their full weight behind Linux for them to even be considered? Didn't they once sell PCs pre-installed with Linux, but found it was a nightmare to support? Linux is ready for my desktop. Linux is ready for your desktop. The masses are not ready for Linux.



Rome wasn't sacked in a day.

random



Aug 03, 2006

11:01 AM EDT >When I see "Linux" or "GNU/Linux" along with Tux, as prominently displayed on Dell's web site as "Microsoft" and the MS Windows logo, then I will agree that they deserve consideration. Until then, they are no more than one arm of Microsoft's sales department.



I agree.



But just because some geeks in a forum want this to be true, does not make it so. Linux is progressing. I believe whole-heartedly that Linux will be easily available to the masses in the near-future. I think all companies should be supported in their effort (no matter how much) to support Linux.

NoDough



Aug 03, 2006

11:06 AM EDT >When I see "Linux" or "GNU/Linux" along with Tux, as prominently displayed on Dell's web site as "Microsoft" and the MS Windows logo, then I will agree that they deserve consideration. Until then, they are no more than one arm of Microsoft's sales department.



Heh. A line from the fictional SuSE Linux redistribution agreement:



All advertising materials carrying the phrase "We recommend Microsoft Windows." shall immediately follow that phrase with "... but we prefer Linux." :-)

cyber_rigger



Aug 03, 2006

11:07 AM EDT Quoting: Dell's "recommendation" is, in fact, forced upon by Microsoft. What's their incentive to "recommend" anything else? To make it a nightmare for support? To get endless calls about Photoshop and Half-Life 2?



If Dell doesn't want to do desktop Linux, then fine, then let the other vendors do it.





grouch



Aug 03, 2006

11:12 AM EDT The last time I tried to go through the order process on Dell's website, each step tried to get me to buy MS Windows.



If I am allowed any vote toward veto of what goes into the database, I will vote against any vendor who makes it harder to purchase a computer with GNU/Linux preinstalled, or with no OS installed, than they make ordering a computer with MS Windows preinstalled. Both Dell and HP would receive a 'no' vote from me.

cyber_rigger



Aug 03, 2006

11:30 AM EDT The purpose of the list is to make it easier for desktop Linux shoppers. At this point in time I find dell.com adding more confusion than helping.



Dell is still in the "try to trick you into buying MS Windows" category. Dell is probably still being controlled by Microsoft. That is not my problem and it shouldn't be the problem of desktop Linux shoppers.



The last time called Dell on the phone and asked about preinstalled Linux they pretended to not know what Linux is.



They said, and I quote, "All of our computers come with Microsoft Windows".

random



Aug 03, 2006

11:32 AM EDT >If Dell doesn't want to do desktop Linux, then fine, then let the other vendors do it.



And there are plenty of great vendors that offer desktop Linux. But this list is to include those that sell OS-less PCs at a comfortable price.



Dell provides that.



Do they "push" Windows? Yes! They sell Windows PCs, as it makes lots of money and there is a very large market for them. Do they "force" Windows? No!



If a first-tier vendor gets nothing but flamed for providing an alternate choice just because they cannot make 100% of the people 100% happy, then what is their incentive to even put forth a token effort? Sure, *we* can go elsewhere.



What about mom and pop? How would they know about an alternate choice? How would they know where to go? This list? How would they get here?

grouch



Aug 03, 2006

11:35 AM EDT We will tell "mom and pop". See above.

Scott_Ruecker



Aug 03, 2006

11:45 AM EDT http://www.redsevenlinux.com/



I talked to them once or twice, cool guys selling computers with Linux on them. For Phoenix, its very cool.

random



Aug 03, 2006

11:48 AM EDT >The last time I tried to go through the order process on Dell's website, each step tried to get me to buy MS Windows.



I just went through both home and small office purchasing (up until the point of, you know, actually ordering) and not once did it say anything about Windows.



>Dell recently revamped their site, and as far as I can tell, this is not true. There is a link to Open Source Desktops on the Small Business page, but there appears to be no way to get to it from the Home or Home Office page.



A stupid American humbly asks for forgiveness. I forget Dell may not be the same Dell around the world.



However, from the Dell USA site, what I said is 100% accurate as I made sure to check before posting.



I stand by my argument that any vendor should be supported in making Linux easily available, not flamed.



I think that saying Dell is trying to "trick" consumers is EXTREME! I do not feel tricked. I find it hard to believe that you feel tricked, knowing what you know. But I will agree that it is unacceptable that you *call* Dell (this a script-reading call-center monkey, not Michael Dell), and they tell you they sell nothing but Windows PCs.



Unacceptable for this list? Okay. Overall I think Dell has some work to do.



But if you go to Dell's site (USA at least) to order an OSD, I don't think you have anything to worry about (as far as getting a Windows-less PC, their hardware and design is another matter).

technolalia



Aug 03, 2006

1:01 PM EDT This subject has often come up on the various ubuntu lists I'm on. Not only for pcs sans windows, but also - especially - for linux-friendly wireless cards. So I happened to be compiling a list of linux-friendly (with some os-agnostic) hardware suppliers in the U.K., which you can find at: http://technolalia.org/resources/uklinuxhardware.html CSS coming when I get round to it.



John

jdixon



Aug 03, 2006

2:18 PM EDT > However, from the Dell USA site, what I said is 100% accurate as I made sure to check before posting.



I was at the USA site. I repeat my objection. Starting at the http://www.dell.com home page, with the country/region set to United States, I select Home or Home Office from the Solutions for menu. The resulting page has no links to the No-OS PC's, so I then select Desktops from the Browse Our Products menu. Again, the page has no links to the No-OS PC's. As far as I can tell, there is NO way to access the No-OS PC's from the Home and Home Office page.

gvlinux



Aug 03, 2006

3:46 PM EDT Thank you very much for including The Linux Loft in your database! I am awed that you found us, and grateful.



We will soon be adding additional models of the Family Box using other distros and a "home and away suite" designed for travelers.



Jonathan Slaff, President The Linux Loft http://www.linuxloft.com

dcparris



Aug 03, 2006

3:47 PM EDT There is no OSD info on this Dell page (which is jdixon's nit, as I understand it): http://www.dell.com/content/products/category.aspx/desktops?...



Even when you try to customize the box, Windows is the only choice. You apparently have to go through the small business page, which many home users would not think to do. After all, they are not a small business. GNU/Linux is not merely a business OS, even though that is its predominant use. The problem is, you have to already know to go through the small business section to get to the OSDs. I see this as problematic, and believe Dell has a ways to go yet before being considered for this list.



Frankly, it was companies like Dell that led to this list. Soooo...

jdixon



Aug 03, 2006

6:00 PM EDT > (which is jdixon's nit, as I understand it):



Yes, that's what I'm complaining about. You have to go to one of their business pages to access the OSD pages, at least as far as I can tell. Since the list is defined as being "aimed at the LOWER PRICED Desktops and Laptops. Think consumer product," I don't see how Dell can qualify.

dcparris



Aug 03, 2006

6:07 PM EDT Well, if it's a low-end business box, I can see it. The problem for me is that they don't seem to make that choice available to the home market. So, unless you already know where to go, it's a pitn.

berqui



Aug 04, 2006

4:35 AM EDT Computers with preinstalled Linux and no-OS computers can be found on : http://www.ankermann-pc.com Desktops (SuSE)

rgriman



Aug 04, 2006

4:40 AM EDT In Spain you've got PC-Box (http://www.pcbox.com). They pre-install Mandrake.

ChuckNorriz



Aug 04, 2006

6:48 AM EDT GamePC offers RedHat, SUSE and Fedora.



http://www.gamepc.com

scronline



Aug 04, 2006

8:36 AM EDT We are a small custom shop in California that will build a machine anyway you want it regardless of OS. Of course, we have to avoid hardware conflicts, but otherwise you tell us what you want and we quote/build it. In the past 3 years we've only had 1 machine have a problem and that was just a faulty DVD/CDRW drive. While we don't have any "online sales" there's a reason for it. Custom equipment is a bit hard to develop a site for. http://www.scronline.com

cyber_rigger



Aug 04, 2006

11:18 AM EDT Attention Vendors,



SHOPPING Engines with Linux.



Pricescan.com has a "Linux" category for computers. As far as i can tell Pricescan.com offers vendors listings for free. If there is a catch I haven't found it yet. http://www.pricescan.com/faq.asp



Bizrate.com has a Linux section (Desktops only) but it looks purposely distracting. I can't find if they charge vendors.



Pricegrabber.com has a small Linux section (Desktops only). I can't find if they charge vendors.



Nextag.com also has "Linux" but it looks like they have a .70 cost per click. http://merchants.nextag.com/serv/main/buyer/sellerprograms.j... (I guess big companies like Dell can afford it).









cyber_rigger



Aug 04, 2006

11:50 AM EDT Lenovo to preinstall SuSE



http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,1999060,00.asp

cyber_rigger



Aug 04, 2006

1:25 PM EDT Digg link for the Linux vendor database (pre)announcement.



http://tinyurl.com/l932x



This one looks blocked. http://www.digg.com/linux_unix/How_To_Find_A_Computer_With_G...

dek



Aug 04, 2006

2:21 PM EDT There's a small computer shop in Omaha Nebraska that installs Gnu/Linux by preference. It's called Reboot The User. AFAIK, they will install any distro.



http://www.reboottheuser.com/



Don K.

djohnston



Aug 04, 2006

10:48 PM EDT cyber_rigger beat me to it:



Lenovo to preinstall SuSE http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS7778908329.html

questioner



Aug 05, 2006

1:10 AM EDT i am a big fan of linux, bsd, etc. but i was wondering, why would anyone pay for a machine that has linux/bsd installed on it? why not just get a windows machine (usually a helluva lot cheaper than what you posted (Dell sells around 449 for a laptop)) and then just repartition it to install whatever the hell you want?



just my $0.02

jimf



Aug 05, 2006

2:02 AM EDT Well questioner, of course you can do that. I might go a step further and say 'why would anyone do other than build their own computer, thus getting complete control of the hardware spec'. The truth is that its good to have choices for users, both experienced and new. A computer with Linux preinstalled is much more likely to sell to a new user, or, one with minimal building skills.

cyber_rigger



Aug 05, 2006

3:38 AM EDT Quoting: i am a big fan of linux, bsd, etc. but i was wondering, why would anyone pay for a machine that has linux/bsd installed on it?



Here's 100,000 reasons for starters.



http://www.usayd.com/2004/12/29/100000-viruses-in-2004/

pogson



Aug 05, 2006

3:29 PM EDT Here are two small suppliers that have fair variety and great service in Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada



Assembled "value systems" http://computeravenue.mb.ca/browse.php?txtCatID=444



Kits, just add a power supply and case. Also in Saskatoon. http://www.cbit.ca/mb/retail_upgrade.asp



Here are two larger suppliers that cover Canada/US. I have dealt with both and they have great selection and service:



Select one of many systems, and customize it. Choices include No O/S, XP, Linspire http://pc.ncix.com/ncixpc/



No O/S kits and assembled systems. No O/S means DOS is supplied but not installed... [url=http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/Category/category_slc.asp?Nav=|c:6||c:31]http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/Category/category_slc...[/url]

pogson



Aug 06, 2006

4:58 AM EDT In reply to a question about the value of Linux pre-installed cyber-rigger gave a link about the malware/viruses/spyware/trojans/bots on the web that wreak havoc with that other OS, especially before XP SP2, but I can give several additional advantages:



avoiding IE more choice. There are multiple choices for all the desktop apps my students used last year. If we had to pay licence fees for every app we used, we could not have had so many. keeping PCs going longer. Linux can run on five year old PCs just fine on thick clients and ten years or more on thin clients. This triples the value for money from the PC purchase. keeping PCs running harder. Lots of PCs with that other OS crash with the least little stress. '9x sometimes crash with a few windows open in a browser. XP is better but still "slows down" or needs a reboot to tidy things up. GNU/Linux will run 24/7 flat out. My Linux terminal servers are often just a standard PC with extra memory and storage. They will run at 100% CPU usage for months with no problem. This higher utilization rate on desktops and servers makes the hardware pay for itself. easier software maintenance. Apt/yum/yast are much more agile than Windows update. For most desktop users, the distro provides everything needed. The Debian apt system will keep a system running smoothly for years without a re-installation. lower cost. I have just planned a 150 seat installation of Linux. I saved $22000 CDN on Windows licences and $15000 on Office licences. That saving paid for all our printers, cameras, scanners. By using Linux terminal servers and thin clients I saved a similar amount on hard drives not needed in the system and lower powered/memoried clients. I even saved a few thousand by using Multi-seat X ( e.g. http://groovix.com/ ) with gigabit/s cabling (fewer parts). The result is my school can have twice as many computers with less maintenance from the same capital budget using Linux instead of that other OS. When I spoke with the ISP about our Internet needs, he fell off his chair when I mentioned the numbers of clients. All the other schools use that other OS and cannot afford enough clients to put a cluster in every classroom, library, office and lab.



As usual, I have gone overboard, but there are many advantages to Linux pre-installed. The most important I leave until last: most users of PCs do not do, will not do, and have never done an OS installation. Pre-installation eliminates this barrier for them to enter the wonderful world of desktop Linux.

questioner



Aug 06, 2006

5:33 AM EDT http://www.googoo.com.sg

jdixon



Aug 06, 2006

7:06 AM EDT > http://www.googoo.com.sg/



No OS only as far as I could tell. They don't seem to offer Linux.

pogson



Aug 06, 2006

10:12 AM EDT I have frequently followed links to Dell.com to read about Linux/NoOS stuff and enjoyed it, but I have found it impossible to search their site for stuff. I sent them an e-mail about it. I searched for "dimension n", for instance, and found no hits. I searched for linux and found a hit for an XP machine. This is either the world's worst-indexed site or they deliberately try to hide some of their products. Are they only selling these things to avoid anti-competition regulations? Why are they selling only on dell.com and not dell.ca? There is obviously a market or they would not have the product. Why not make it easy to find?



On the other hand, if you search via Google for "dimension n" the first hit is what we seek. Is it not strange that Google can index their site more effectively than Dell can? If you search Google for Dell linux, you get http://www.dell.com/linux and we are off to the races.



Further, Dimension n does not seem to be available in Canada but Precision is, pre-installed with RHEL... see http://www1.ca.dell.com/content/products/compare.aspx/precn?... but it is an expensive beast.

cyber_rigger



Aug 07, 2006

8:58 AM EDT DesktopLinux.com mentions our list. http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS2131977033.html



Thanks Steven, I added your sites.

dcparris



Aug 07, 2006

12:56 PM EDT Cool deal. Glad to see this taking off so well. We're still working on the nicer DB.

wjl



Aug 07, 2006

1:14 PM EDT I mentioned it as well:



http://blog.thedebianuser.org/?p=15



Just in case some Debian user needs this for her/his grandma (or so)



cheers, wjl

Sander_Marechal



Aug 07, 2006

1:39 PM EDT When this list gets databased I think that it needs to be split up once more. Currently it's split in two: Linux pre-installed vs no-os. I think it needs to be split in three:



1) Linux pre-installed and supported 2) Linux pre-installed 3) No-OS



The support factor is pretty important for Joe Average.

wolfchri



Aug 08, 2006

6:22 AM EDT Hi there,



very helpful list. Please also add a German resource for Linux compatible hardware, incl. desktops and Laptops:



http://www.tuxhardware.de/



Cheers.









odat



Aug 08, 2006

8:56 AM EDT There is also Fossystems.com

cyber_rigger



Aug 08, 2006

10:49 PM EDT Added http://www.shafetech.com/ Ubuntu Desktops and Laptops



We have a little over 50 pre-intalled Linux vendors now.





cgregan



Aug 09, 2006

6:44 AM EDT I'm currently ramping up, but in the fall I will begin selling an LCD - All-In-One pre-loaded with Novell's SLED 10. You can check out some initial info over on my products page: http://www.aptenix.com/products.html

cyber_rigger



Aug 09, 2006

2:12 PM EDT Added http://ataria.errex.net/ Laptops Added http://www.stompboxpc.com/linux.html Desktops



Added https://www.linuxmedia.co.uk/ Desktops Added http://www.geekstop.co.uk/ Desktops Added http://www.axiomtech.co.uk/ Desktops

jhellen



Aug 11, 2006

10:04 AM EDT I would add my own company called LinuxComp here in Finland. http://www.linuxcomp.net (Only in Finnish) Laptop and Desktop computers preinstalled with Ubuntu. The ordering system doesn't work yet but just send me the purchase order via mail and I will take care of the rest :)

cyber_rigger



Aug 11, 2006

11:49 AM EDT Quoting: I would add my own company called LinuxComp here in Finland. [HYPERLINK@www.linuxcomp.net] (Only in Finnish)



Unfortunately I only speak English. Some sites I can find a translation. Some sites are obvious picture-wise.



I like to verify each site on the list as well as I can.



We might need some separate threads for languages I can't web translate into English.



Any volunteers?

dcparris



Aug 11, 2006

3:06 PM EDT > Unfortunately I only speak English. Some sites I can find a translation. Some sites are obvious picture-wise.



There is a little English: "LinuxComp DOES NOT recommend Microsoft Windows® XP" :-) Also, some of the product descriptions are in English.

cyber_rigger



Aug 11, 2006

3:57 PM EDT



I saw that. It made my day.



I do see mention of Ubuntu. I'll take jhellen's word that it is preinstalled.

cyber_rigger



Aug 13, 2006

1:02 PM EDT Added http://www.linuxcomputersystems.com/ Desktops

wjl



Aug 13, 2006

10:21 PM EDT cyber_rigger and LXer staff,



you're doing a great service here. And tho I understood the "average Joe" vs. Barebone argument, and tho I also don't want to promote a company before actually seeing what they provide, let me cite from an email I just received a few days ago:



(Andy from LixSystems)> "Our download links are up running again and we encourage anybody who wants an easy quick Linux install on these motherboards to download our Install DVD. This is truly how motherboards should be delivered to customers, with a free operating systems that installs in 15 minutes and is pre-configured with the correct drivers. Even the experienced Linux user will save hours of installation with our install DVD. We even pre-configured all the V4l drivers and applications, and a KWorld TV Terminator captured cards will work out of the box with our distro. Aver SAA7134 based capture cards work as well. We are working on "out of the box" ATSC and dvb support."



I know that installing something on an otherwise "naked" hard disk is maybe beyond the capabilities of the mentioned "average Joe". But if they send *me* an almost complete system (sans CPU and RAM), I'm pretty sure that if you want to buy from them, they would be happy to send a complete and pre-installed system.



Plus of course: with so many people looking for infos about AM2 mobos and drivers and stuff on just *my* pages, I really think that the guys over at LixSystems (or their LinuxTechToys store) are providing a great service with their images. They should at least be listed under the categories "no-OS, but with Linux images readily available", or at least, "Linux-friendly".



Or am I still missing something here?



Of course I will test and report on that sponsored system as soon as it arrives.



cheers, wjl

cyber_rigger



Aug 14, 2006

8:57 AM EDT Quoting: They should at least be listed under the categories "no-OS"



The default configurations that I saw did NOT include things like the CPU. IMO it is beyond the scope and intention of this list to show everyone that sells computer system parts.

cyber_rigger



Aug 15, 2006

4:42 PM EDT Lenovo con job.



"Let me be clear: We are not preloading," Aggarwal said. "What we're giving the customer is more choice in the ability to go to Novell and get the license and the operating system. We're providing the drivers and the utilities."



http://channelweb.com/showArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=5T5LHQWVM...



In other words just another no-OS notebook.



It sounds like Microsoft yanked Lenovo's chain and Lenovo is whimpering "yes we're still your lapdog".

cyber_rigger



Aug 15, 2006

5:11 PM EDT If any of you want to send your regards to Lenovo here is the sales address.



mikechan@lenovo.com

dcparris



Aug 15, 2006

5:15 PM EDT Well, as a long-term goal, we'll add the ability to determine the user's comfort level in the database. Users wanting to browse/search the database will be able to say:



"I'm not technically adept. Show me a box with GNU/Linux pre-installed." or... "I'm technically adept. Show me boxes with no OS, or bare bones systems."



I had thought through that fairly early on.

cyber_rigger



Aug 15, 2006

7:59 PM EDT I started a wikpedia page for the "Linux PC"



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_PC



Does anyone know any good history events for the Linux PC? Linux made a lot of headlines with servers but the PC developments are harder to find.

Sander_Marechal



Aug 15, 2006

9:45 PM EDT About Lenovo: They really don't know what they want, do they... http://lxer.com/module/newswire/view/67393/index.html



I'd hold off on including them for the same reason Dell is not on the list. Show us the goods first.

wjl



Aug 16, 2006

1:20 PM EDT Normally, I don't like the German iX magazine that much. But this time (9/2006), they not only have a report about the Debian-Kolab-based Univention Groupware Server, which could be the right thing for companies, but they also have looked at about two dozens of pre-installed laptops which are offered with Linux.



The listed companies are:



http://www.alternate.de/ http://www.wortmann.de/ http://www.hp.com/de/notebooks/ http://www.linux-systeme.biz/ http://www.linuxland.de/hardware/index_html/hardware/hp/ http://www.linux-schlepptops.de/ http://www.panthera-systems.net/ http://www.nofost.de/ http://www.pro-com.org/ http://www.pro-ite.de/ http://www.smartbook.ag/ http://www.vvv-service.de/ http://www.xtops.de/



Maybe this is interesting for your one or other German reader...



cheers, wjl

cyber_rigger



Aug 16, 2006

5:28 PM EDT Added



http://www.alvio.com/ Desktops (Fedora +SuSE) Laptops (Fedora)



* http://www.pcsforeveryone.com/ Laptop (Fedora Gentoo +Ubuntu +SuSE Redhat)

Steve_Riley



Aug 17, 2006

4:10 AM EDT I know I'm late to this debate, but in the UK http://www.novatech.co.uk sell desktops (without monitors) & laptops without OS & cheaper than having MS pre-installed (I don't have any shares in the company but have used them for computer stuff for years :o)

ChuckNorriz



Aug 17, 2006

5:07 PM EDT "There is a large market for Windows" is no excuse anymore:



http://trends.newsforge.com/print.pl?sid=06/07/25/2018237



Looks like Microsoft has been sabotaging the market (now that's something they don't do very often, isn't it?).

cyber_rigger



Aug 17, 2006

7:53 PM EDT So it basically says,



YOU HAVE TO PAY PEOPLE TO USE WINDOWS



(that would make a great title for an article).



From what I've gathered some of the funding comes from anti-virus companies wanting placement on new machines.



Microsoft could be using them as channels to bypass anti-trust issues.

jgoulter



Aug 23, 2006

10:07 PM EDT Two more. Both are Australian suppliers. This supplier lets you "design" your notebook and whether or not to buy Windows. Free of Windows, they are about $130 cheaper. http://www.laptopchoice.com.au/ This supplier of desktop systems installs Ubuntu by default (they used to come with Knoppix). I have purchased two so far and immediately installed Mepis on them. It is nice to know they have been verified as Linux compliant. http://www.cheapestpc.com.au/

technolalia



Aug 25, 2006

1:02 AM EDT My UK list updated: http://technolalia.org/resources/uklinuxhardware.html



Most important addition: Transtec http://www.transtec.co.uk/GB/E/index.html with some very tempting boxes.



John

cyber_rigger



Aug 29, 2006

2:11 PM EDT Added:



* http://www.asaservers.com/ Desktops (call-users-choice) Laptops (Fedora)



* http://www.linux-service.be/ Desktops (Fedora Gentoo +Kubuntu Mandriva +SuSE +Ubuntu Slackware) Laptops (+Kubuntu +Ubuntu +SuSE Slackware +Mandriva Gentoo Fedora Debian)



* http://www.dnuk.com/ Desktops (Debian Fedora +SuSE +Ubuntu)



* http://www.vgcomputing.com.au Desktops (Redhat Fedora CentOS +Mandriva Debian +Ubuntu +Kubuntu +Mepis Gentoo Slackware +SuSE)

Teron



Sep 02, 2006

4:56 AM EDT "Unfortunately I only speak English. Some sites I can find a translation. Some sites are obvious picture-wise."



I took a look at the LinuxComp site. Every desk- and laptop they sell with an OS comes with Dapper. The terminals specify a 2.4 Linux kernel, but that's it. Some machines do not have an operating system. Not one has XP preloaded.

cyber_rigger



Sep 02, 2006

5:51 PM EDT Added:



http://www.sharex.com.tr/ Desktops (Gelecek) Laptops (Gelecek)



http://www.cyberpowerpc.com/ Desktops Laptops

Sander_Marechal



Sep 07, 2006

2:10 AM EDT Will someone please put an IP ban or some such on these spammers.... >:-(

cyber_rigger



Sep 11, 2006

6:13 PM EDT Added:



* http://www.damnsmalllinux.org/store/Mini_ITX_Systems/Damn_Sm... Nano-Desktop (DSL)

cyber_rigger



Sep 12, 2006

2:35 PM EDT Added:



* http://www.mdofpc.com/onlinestore/balance-linux-via-c3-12ghz... Laptop (+Linspire)

cyber_rigger



Sep 19, 2006

12:31 PM EDT Moved from Misc. to preinstalled.



* http://www.tuxhardware.de/ Laptops (+SuSE +Ubuntu)

dcparris



Sep 19, 2006

2:07 PM EDT > Will someone please put an IP ban or some such on these spammers.... >:-(



This is actually an LXer-hosted project. :-)

Sander_Marechal



Sep 19, 2006

3:29 PM EDT >> Will someone please put an IP ban or some such on these spammers.... >:-(



> This is actually an LXer-hosted project. :-)



I know (still waiting for the databased version - hint, hint). There was a spam post above that post of mine (one from a large series of spam threads/posts here on LXer). The editors (you?) nuked it.

dcparris



Sep 19, 2006

3:42 PM EDT Oh, right! Probably was me. I've nuked so many I can't keep 'em all straight. :(

hiohoaus



Sep 19, 2006

4:31 PM EDT dcparris: try swapping "active (Y/N)" for something like "date of last real use (YYYYmmdd)".



Keeping a brief history of changes to that date (and any user reviews) would be helpful as well.

cyber_rigger



Sep 27, 2006

10:53 PM EDT Added:



http://www.globalcomputer.com/applications/searchtools/item-... Desktops (+Linspire)

hkwint



Oct 02, 2006

12:10 PM EDT Things going great here. The list is becoming impressive, and even small companies are adding themselves. Nonetheless, this forum is a bit 'chaotic'.



Can anyone tell me how far the database is? Who's working on it?



Any help needed? (I'm willing to do lots of marketing, and more)

hkwint



Oct 02, 2006

12:19 PM EDT You should add



http://www.boostore.com/carrefour/Catalog/micro-informatique...



Boostore is a part of Carrefour (Carrefour being some kind of European Wall-mart, for those who've never been to France or the surrounding countries). Even if you don't speak French, the penguin on the site and the name Linux is rather obvious.

cyber_rigger



Oct 03, 2006

12:38 PM EDT Summary, what vendors are preinstalling.



Desktops:



24 (18.05%) Ubuntu 20 (15.04%) Suse 19 (14.29%) Fedora 18 (13.53%) Linspire 11 (8.27%) Redhat 8 (6.02%) Debian 8 (6.02%) Xandros 6 (4.51%) Mandriva 5 (3.76%) Gentoo 4 (3.01%) Centos 4 (3.01%) Slackware 2 (1.50%) mephis 1 (0.75%) ELX 1 (0.75%) Frontier 1 (0.75%) Icepack 1 (0.75%) PclinuxOS



Laptops/Notebooks:



13 (22.03%) Ubuntu 10 (16.95%) Fedora 10 (16.95%) Suse 5 (8.47%) Debian 5 (8.47%) Redhat 4 (6.78%) Centos 3 (5.08%) Linspire 3 (5.08%) Mandriva 2 (3.39%) Gentoo 2 (3.39%) Slackware 1 (1.69%) emperorlinux 1 (1.69%) mandrake





Sander_Marechal



Oct 03, 2006

3:31 PM EDT > Can anyone tell me how far the database is? Who's working on it?



Yeah, I've been wondering about that too. It'd make a great site even just on it's own or a major visitor magnet for LXer. I've seen this thread linked all over the net.

dcparris



Oct 06, 2006

6:47 PM EDT We are in fact implementing this as we speak. We actually have an alpha version that we're toying with, and will probably open it up to a wider audience for beta testing soon. I will say that what I see has promise. We need to make a few tweaks yet, but we'll get there. At least Bob is working on it steadily.



We really do appreciate everyone's patience.

Sander_Marechal



Oct 08, 2006

3:11 PM EDT I just hope you figured out a good way to keep it up-to-date. Preferably by automating it. There have been lists before and they all die after a few months because the data gets outdated and it's too much work to keep current by hand.



Looking forward to the beta!

Scott_Ruecker



Oct 30, 2006

10:15 AM EDT Here is one I heard of the The Linux Link Tech Show.



http://www.system76.com/



I listened to the interview and checked out the site. Looks legit.

hq4ever



Nov 14, 2006

5:12 AM EDT You guys might also like to check http://www.linux-tested.com/

matthewcraig



Dec 08, 2006

6:17 PM EDT Frustrating that none (none!) of these vendors "officially" support Linux. Especially the ones selling Linux pre-installed. How do they get away selling something and not support it? Unacceptable. Far from being impossible, there are already companies available who support Linux distributions, but do not sell hardware. If the hardware company cannot manage the Linux support themselves, then they should partner with one of these Linux support firms. Even short of that small step, they could package the Linux support contract cost on top of the hardware price, with the assurance they will cooperate with the support firm. To sell something out the door while hinting it will work for Linux, yet demanding the customer prove problems in Windows, is a terrible business practice. When computer resellers start standing behind their product working with Linux, then they will get my business. Otherwise, you're surviving on slim hardware margins. I, like many others, regularly purchase computers based on the HW/SW support supplied. I am a UNIX computer technician during the day, but when I come home I want my x86 computer to simply work - and I do not mind paying someone to ensure it does. Show me a supported HW/SW Linux solution (USA-based) and you will have my next computer purchase.

matthewcraig



Dec 08, 2006

6:20 PM EDT Hey! I noticed Scott Ruecker in the post above mine mention System76. I checked it out, and it would... appear they support Linux pre-installed. I am cautious in getting my hopes up, but I will be giving them a call. Planning on buying a system in just a couple months, so save a high-end system for me, guys!

dcparris



Dec 09, 2006

12:55 AM EDT Actually, some of them do offer business support, just not for individuals. They may also have information about commercial support providers, but I haven't investigated that.

rijelkentaurus



Dec 09, 2006

1:44 AM EDT >Frustrating that none (none!) of these vendors "officially" support Linux.



None of the major OEMs "officially" support Windows, either. Ever call Dell and discover that the problem appears to be related to Windows and not the PC? Have any guesses on who Dell tells you to call? The blasted Windows EULA absolves MS from having to take responsibility and the hardware manufacturers don't want to touch it, either.



If you want your OS supported, pay for support. You'll get some support from System76, and you can also buy support from Canonical. There's Red Hat, SUSE, Mandriva, TaFusion, Xandros and several other commercial vendors. I think that's just the reality of the situation. It's Free Software, not Free Support.

matthewcraig



Dec 09, 2006

9:29 AM EDT rijelkentaurus: You take my meaning wrong. True, OEMs do not "support" Windows in a way where they handle support calls specific to Windows (such as, "My Explorer just crashed!"), but they do claim their hardware will support a Windows operating system. I mean support as in providing structure to prop something up, not specifically technical support where people call for help.



When a OEM supports Linux, then they are saying their hardware works with Linux. And, should you call up with proof that there is a visible hardware failure through Linux, then they would replace the hardware. Even this simple level of support is hardly known through the OEM world.

matthewcraig



Dec 09, 2006

9:40 AM EDT This is from the System76.com website FAQ. Their policy goes much further past just supporting the hardware I mentioned:



"Have you ever called Microsoft when you have a Windows problem? It's more likely you called the teenager down the street. When you have a problem with the software on your machine you can give us a call. You can also ask questions in the System 76 forums or search our extensive knowledge base. The community and System 76 constantly work to fill the knowledge base with definitive how to's, troubleshooting, and answers to your questions."

rijelkentaurus



Dec 09, 2006

11:13 AM EDT >I mean support as in providing structure to prop something up, not specifically technical support where people call for help.



Cool, understood now.



Yeah, System76 looks great. Even if you don't do the *buntu, you can buy their laptops and be assured that their hardware will work with whatever you're using. Funds don't allow a purchase now, but I've got my eyes on one of their laptops. PCLinuxOS won't be a problem on one of those, and I don't have to pay a "tax" for the OS the way I would if I bought a Windows PC or a Mac.

cyber_rigger



Jan 24, 2007

7:38 PM EDT Posted patch to Ubuntu Bug #1



[url=https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/ bug/1/?loggingout=1]https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/ bug/1/?loggingout=1[/url] [url=https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/ bug/1/comments/257]https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/ bug/1/comments/257[/url]



Thanks everyone for helping.





dcparris



Jan 24, 2007

9:57 PM EDT Welcome back from your trip into outer space. I'm assuming you dropped off the face of the Earth? BTW, you only linked to the forum. I take it you missed the actual database we've implemented?



http://lxer.com/module/db/index.php?dbn=14



It seems quite usable these days. That should have been part of your patch. ;-)

bigg



Jan 25, 2007

7:05 AM EDT One suggestion: it would be a little more usable if for the US vendors it included state information. I know where Cleveland is. But AVADirect is listed as Twinsburg, and in the US that is not very helpful. Even if I click on the name, it says "Twinsburg, United States". Only by clicking on the link to their website and then clicking on contact information do I find out Twinsburg is in Ohio.

Scott_Ruecker



Jan 25, 2007

7:14 AM EDT Thank You for the info bigg. A states directory is a good idea but until then I updated the database so that it says Cleveland next to Twinsburg and I noted its location in Ohio in the notes section.

cyber_rigger



Jan 25, 2007

1:42 PM EDT dcparris: Nice job on the database. I just posted it to Ubuntu bug #1. I've been busy lately. I'm hoping to have some free time soon.

dcparris



Jan 25, 2007

9:43 PM EDT Cool! I knew it! You were busy! I suspected it all along! :-) Glad to see your smiling face around here again. Oh wait. I can't see a freakin' thing! Well, glad to see your posts again. :-)

cyber_rigger



Mar 04, 2007

12:02 AM EDT Added:



No-OS



http://www.zepto.com/ Laptops

Bob_Robertson



Mar 04, 2007

12:01 PM EDT Why doesn't this thread have a permenant link on the home page? Up front, right side, easy to find?



Just wondering. I put the URL into discussions on other boards on occasion, and would like to find it easier when I need it. Laziness on my part.





tracyanne



Mar 04, 2007

1:01 PM EDT Given the huge call for Dell to provide Linux pre installed, and the amount of press this is generating, now would be a good time for companies that already sell Linux on the Desktop to promote themselves.



One way would be with "news" articles in local papers. Another would be with announcements to bloggers that are writing about the Dell thing, another would be to mainstream media, with a tie in to the Dell news.

Sander_Marechal



Mar 04, 2007

2:44 PM EDT Quoting: Why doesn't this thread have a permenant link on the home page? Up front, right side, easy to find?



Because all the info from this thread was put into an easy searchable database. See the big "Linux pre-installed vendor database" image on every page in the right-hand column, just below the "Have something to say?" block.

Aladdin_Sane



Mar 04, 2007

3:41 PM EDT >>One way would be with "news" articles in local papers.



Confusing news and advertisements is not the best way to get the message across. MS and Dell both welcome these "stories." The informed cast a weak, weary, lame eye on such.



>>Another would be with announcements to bloggers that are writing about the Dell thing, another would be to mainstream media, with a tie in to the Dell news.



I don't think tie-ing in is anything that independent distributors of hardware want, not now or in the future.



OK, now the rant.



Have you ever met an idiot? As I've posted eleswhere, I've taken over 16,000 tech support calls. From my POV less than 10% were idiots. Most were confused by MS representation of what their computer could or should do.



Confusion and misdirection of the innocent does not make an idiot. It makes the appearance of an idiot.



This is the hideous insidious MS scam: If I can confuse you, you're mine.



The Jesuits (or is it the Fransiscans?) say, "Give me a child before age 6, and he'll be mine forever."



OK, I'm GM, coming out with a new car: It's called "Car." Forever hence, when anyone says "What kind of car do you have," GM Car owners answer, "Oh, I have a Car car."



Not BeOS, not GeOS, not OS/2 PM, not X, I've got Windows. What does that mean ? Well I didn't need to define it, MS did it for me. See, it's a Windows Window.



But what does that mean .



Meaning? Oh that's irrelevant since I've got Microsoft Windows.



Since I can throw my mind out of focus, I can avoid the fact that I'm scared to death of computers. I can avoid the hassle, the brain-strain that might actually cause me to "get it."



Thank God for Microsoft, his holiness be anointed to sainthood for destroying the intellectual in the name of the sacrificial.

Bob_Robertson



Mar 05, 2007

9:08 AM EDT "See the big "Linux pre-installed vendor database" image on every page..."



Pardon me whilst I wipe this egg off my face....ok. Oh, there it is!



Thank you.





dcparris



Mar 05, 2007

2:40 PM EDT Hey, just drop that egg into a pan, heat to suit, & season to your liking. May as well maximize your investment. ;-)

cyber_rigger



Mar 14, 2007

6:01 PM EDT Added under miscellaneous



* http://linutop.com/ diskless (+xubuntu)

tuxtom



Mar 14, 2007

6:14 PM EDT Best case design I've seen:



http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS3536082480.html

cyber_rigger



Mar 17, 2007

7:50 AM EDT Added:



* http://www.efficientpc.co.uk/systems/ Desktops (+Ubuntu)

PaJoe



Mar 19, 2007

2:10 AM EDT I am new to this forum, and may have screwed up adding Home Depot to the list of stores that sell the Mirus Linspire AMD Sempron 3000 80GB Desktop Computer with CDRW Drive Model SITLS30



http://www.homedepot.com/prel80/HDUS/EN_US/jsearch/product.j...



also check out the 5star review, sounds like a linux advocate, but for $299 USD it does sound good.







It's a shame they don't have a low cost linux pc powered with an AMD64

cyber_rigger



Mar 19, 2007

7:23 AM EDT Thanks PaJoe



Home Depot's static links don't seem reliable so I used this.



Added :



http://www.homedepot.com/ Desktop (+Linspire) website: Search "Linspire"

PaJoe



Mar 20, 2007

1:31 AM EDT I don't think I will buy one of these, but was pleasantly surprised to see it. The last time we were able to buy an off the shelf computer was in the mid '90s, it had OS/2 and Windows 3.1 loaded as a dual boot. I envy windows users when it comes to the ease of buying new systems, all they need to worry about is price and features.



joe

vmalep



Mar 20, 2007

8:56 AM EDT Hi,



In France, there is Keynux (http://www.keynux.com) that sells laptop with Windows, Linux or no OS. I bought one and I am quite happy (even though everything is not working, like the webcam or the modem...).



BR Pierre

naldoco



Mar 20, 2007

4:28 PM EDT Carrefour Spain: http://www.tecnologia.carrefour.es/ * In the search template you must place it "linux".



At the moment 11 results are displayed:



1) CRONUX E-LIVE X2 4200 LINUX. Cpu + Monitor 19'' http://www.tecnologia.carrefour.es/electronic_productdetails... ... ... 11) CRONUX 523LC2D LINUX 3 + MON 19'' . Ordenador http://www.tecnologia.carrefour.es/electronic_productdetails...





cyber_rigger



Mar 20, 2007

5:11 PM EDT Added:



* http://www.keynux.com Desktops Laptops (Fedora +Mandriva) http://www.tecnologia.carrefour.es/







Needs language translation. As far as I can tell they have desktops with Ubuntu: http://www.tecnologia.carrefour.es/

hkwint



Mar 22, 2007

5:38 PM EDT As far as I can tell (I don't speak Spanish, but understanding French helps a lot), they offer 4 different Linux desktops with 2 years guarentee, but I can't find anything about the support. The prices look rather cheap to me (thanks to the Euro, I can compare these days).



BTW Carrefour is to Europe (France-region) like Wal-Mart is to the US. Remember, I added Carrefour under a different name before for France ( http://www.boostore.com/carrefour/Catalog/micro-informatique... ). This might mean, Linux is coming to the Carrefour in more countries. I have to check Carrefour Belgium for it.

cyber_rigger



Mar 24, 2007

1:00 PM EDT I've been cleaning up the vendor list a bit, mainly removing dead links. I do plan to do the database next (when I can get to it).



Readers, let me know if you see any bad links, dead links, etc.





cyber_rigger



Apr 03, 2007

8:13 PM EDT Removed Sears, Walmart, pugetsystems, reddog .

hkwint



Apr 04, 2007

10:16 AM EDT Thanks!

bsh



Apr 27, 2007

11:07 AM EDT I am wondering whether



[HYPERLINK@lixsystems.com]



and their store at



[HYPERLINK@linuxtechtoys.com]



is still in business.



I have been trying to get in touch with them for some time now, without response.



Any info in this regard will be greatly appreciated.

cyber_rigger



Apr 30, 2007

4:45 PM EDT Added:



* http://www.zareason.com/ Desktops (+Ubuntu) Laptops (+Ubuntu)



* http://welcome.allaroundgeeks.com/store Desktops (+Ubuntu) Laptops (+Ubuntu)

david88088



May 07, 2007

2:32 PM EDT More: http://www.onhop.ca

trym666



May 21, 2007

9:35 AM EDT http://www.gamegram.de

cyber_rigger



May 21, 2007

1:35 PM EDT david88088, Does onhop.ca have any Linux desktops or laptop/notebooks? All I could find was a Linux thin client.



trym666, I can't seem to find any Linux computers.



Could you provide links to a Linux desktop or Linux laptop/notebook?

cyber_rigger



May 24, 2007

2:10 PM EDT http://content.dell.com/us/en/enterprise/linux.aspx?c=us&cs=... Desktops Laptop (+Ubuntu)



Warning: Laptops have very unfriendly Broadcom wireless.



I do NOT recommend.





trym666



Jun 28, 2007

2:57 PM EDT follow http://www.gamegram.de/Betriebssysteme/SUSE-LINUX-ENTERPRISE...



there are a lot of linux computers and software at http://www.gamegram.de



also enjoy http://www.gamegram.at and http://www.gamegram.net :)



just discover and you will find many linux / unix stuff :) great site and thx a lot we can link our site here



keep on rockin´

cyber_rigger



Jun 29, 2007

12:44 PM EDT trym666



I see that gamegram.de sells SuSE server software.



I'm looking for preinstalled Linux desktops and Laptop/notebooks.



I tried their search and came up with nothing. Do you have an example link?

psychsoftpc



Aug 07, 2007

5:04 AM EDT Psychsoftpc http://www.psychsoftpc.com offers SUSE Linux SLED 10 pre-loads on our graphics workstations and clusters.

cyber_rigger



Sep 17, 2007

7:01 AM EDT Added:



http://www.copycatcomputers.com/ Desktops (Debian Freespire Klikit +Linspire +Ubuntu)



Cleaned out some dead links.

cyber_rigger



Oct 28, 2007

1:19 PM EDT pending

jdixon



Oct 28, 2007

5:00 PM EDT Cyber rigger:



See http://www.eeeuser.com/ for more details about the machine.

hkwint



Oct 29, 2007

3:48 PM EDT As far as I could see, Tesco isn't included yet. Coincidentally, I was in the Czech and the Slovak republic last week when I noticed this hypermarket for the first time; besides these two countries it's also in the UK/Ireland. Seems like nice deals, like £189 ($388 or €270). for an AMD dual core. Site is in English, here two examples:



http://direct.tesco.com/q/R.200-3224/btnResultSort.x=509/btn...



http://direct.tesco.com/q/R.200-6129/btnResultSort.x=509/btn...

jdixon



Oct 31, 2007

7:19 AM EDT http://www.eeeuser.com/ is reporting that NewEgg has the EEE PC 4G for sale as of today.



The NewEgg link is http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834220...



It looks like it's selling for $399.99 plus $10.03 for 3 day shipping.

hkwint



Nov 13, 2007

2:03 PM EDT c3pc.com should be added.

cyber_rigger



Nov 29, 2007

7:15 AM EDT Here's one in the works.



http://www.engadget.com/2007/11/16/everexs-ce260-ce261-track...

ColonelPanik



Nov 29, 2007

9:54 AM EDT I am waiting for helios to build me one, but thanks.

cyber_rigger



Dec 27, 2007

9:28 PM EDT Here's another one. They are pushing their subscription as part of the package.



http://www.zonbu.com/



You can buy a machine without a subscription but you don't get a discount on the hardware.



Also,



The Hacao Classmate PC is in the works.



http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS4217198426.html

hkwint



Dec 28, 2007

8:43 AM EDT Hi,



Could you add



http://www.own-it.nl/component/option,com_virtuemart/Itemid,...



(NL, Linux pre-installed, both desktops / laptops)



Ahtec.net (rather big no-OS company, Spain, Belgium and the Netherlands).

cyber_rigger



Jan 16, 2008

7:24 AM EDT Added:



http://dse.co.nz Laptops (+Ubuntu +Xandros) website: Search "Linux"

cyber_rigger



Feb 21, 2008

9:23 AM EDT There seems to be a few more in the works.









cyber_rigger



Mar 21, 2008

9:10 AM EDT Amazon.com has ultra-portable Linux laptops now.



They are hitting the top sellers list.



http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/pc/565108/ref=pd_ts_pc_...





wjl



Mar 21, 2008

10:25 AM EDT I have opened the European (German) branch of ZaReason lately - you can find it in the German TLD under



http://www.zareason.de/



Thanks, wjl

Sander_Marechal



Mar 21, 2008

12:09 PM EDT Cool. Do you ship to other countries as well?

wjl



Mar 21, 2008

5:01 PM EDT We sure do - tho we haven't worked out the real shipping costs, taxes, customs and such for non-EU countries.



Thanks for your interest. Maybe I'll set up some post on my own blog about how intense the pre-sales & product evalution, and the immense help of the community is. This is really a kind of a new business model, because we only offer what is reported to work good, by real Debian Developers for instance.



This way, we also save a lot on support later on.

Sander_Marechal



Mar 22, 2008

4:26 AM EDT Well, I'm from next door; The Netherlands. Next time I need to buy a Linux box for someone it'll be from you.

wjl



Mar 22, 2008

10:03 AM EDT Yes, almost round the corner. And thanks,



wjl

ColonelPanik



Mar 22, 2008

4:56 PM EDT wjl, Best of luck, hope it goes well.



Sander_Marechal, Dude, buy two! these guys need all the help they can get!

cyber_rigger



Mar 26, 2008

7:12 PM EDT In t