Using “Traditional” Online Education to Launch MOOCs: A Q&A With Colorado State’s Distance Ed Team

Good morning. This is Robert McGuire at MOOC News and Reviews, and today we’re going to hear from part of the leadership team at Colorado State University OnlinePlus, which is the distance learning program for that state university system.

The reason I wanted to talk to them is because they are in the process of developing their first MOOCs by building on their existing infrastructure and experience with online education, which I suspect is going to be the way that many public universities start experimenting with MOOCs.



The first of these classes from CSU OnlinePlus is a psychology class titled The Science of Relationships, which will run this fall semester from September 23 to November 15. And in the spring they have two other classes they’re planning in educational leadership and environmental science.

[You can play the audio recording of our interview with Jody Cebina and Alysha Tarantino or, if you prefer, read the transcript below.]



Audio of interview with Colorado State University OnlinePlus [ Download

McGuire

We’re getting insight from two members of the OnlinePlus leadership team. Let me first introduce Jody Cebina, who is the Program Director. Welcome, Jody.

Cebina

Thank you for having me.

McGuire

And we also have Alysha Tarantino, who is the Program Manager. Good morning, Alysha.

Tarantino

Good morning.

McGuire

Let’s get background and context a little bit first. Tell us a little bit about the history of OnlinePlus and its goals and who its students are before this MOOC initiative.

Tarantino

We are the Division of Continuing Education here at the Ft. Collins office of CSU, and we have been providing programs for our students for about 45 years, and we provide an opportunity for students who either choose not to come to campus or cannot. And we have Colorado State University’s renowned faculty’s research and academic curricula behind us. So that’s kind of who we are.

McGuire

Are the instructors drawn from the traditional on-campus instructors and sometimes they’re teaching online classes?

Tarantino

Yes. All of our faculty are actually faculty who teach in classrooms in Ft. Collins.

McGuire

I was looking over your website. So you’ve got some complete degree programs that are entirely online. You’ve got non-matriculated students. You’ve got some existing free classes.

Tarantino

Yes, we do.

McGuire

So I take it that a traditional class — a typical class — has a manageable number of students. You have caps of some kind on each of these classes.

Tarantino

I think our highest cap at the moment is 50, but normally they’re around 25 or so.

McGuire

Are most of the students local there in Colorado, near the campus, or are they coming from around the world?

Cebina

I can jump in with that. We actually have a really good mix. Of course, especially with our undergraduate offerings, we do get a nice mix of distance students, as we call them, versus campus students in those courses. The vast majority of our degree programs, though we have a large reach within Colorado and in the surrounding regions, we have students from all 50 states and I think, at last report, over 5o countries that enroll in our degree programs. We have a good mix of students. The goal of most of the degree programs though is to reach an audience that the campus itself couldn’t normally reach.

McGuire

You’ve been doing that for 40-some years. It sounds like you’ve been doing it since the days of correspondence courses.

Cebina

Absolutely.

McGuire

Why did you decide to start offering MOOCs?

Cebina

I think that’s a really good question. I think it first happened because of a hallway conversation. You know, we heard about MOOCs. We were watching what was going on and were quite intrigued. [pullquote position=”right”]We thought MOOCs would play a role in the future of higher education but really had no idea what that role would be and if we should jump in. It really started with a hallway conversation with a psychology faculty member, and it went on from there. [/pullquote]But as we were going through the research and discovery process, we kind of added some items to it that we felt, “Yes, this really fits what CSU should be doing.”

At the root of all that, we’re a Research I land-grant university, and our mission at its core is to extend education to populations that wouldn’t normally have such access, so it really fits in with our model with how we were conceived as an institution to offer something free or low cost to students either in Colorado or beyond.

I think it also allows us to really build awareness at a national and international level of our faculty and expertise, since we are so faculty focused here. So we’re excited about the possibility of allowing a bigger part of the world to benefit from our faculty’s knowledge and research interests. The standard want to educate the populace is a goal we do have.

When it all is said and done, I really liked your introduction in speaking about this as an experiment, because that’s how we view it right now. [pullquote position=”right”]So we are hoping that through the experimental process that we’re going to find some additional value to doing this beyond our initial brainstormed list of benefits. We’re confident that we’re going to find some. We just don’t know what it all is yet.[/pullquote]

McGuire

It sound like you’re in the same stage as a lot . . . . I mean, all of the conversation is about, “What is the business model? What is the advantage?” To me, the question about MOOCs boils down to, “Why do we charge tuition to some, and why might we offer up this educational opportunity to the whole wide world that are not our tuition-paying students?” I guess I hear you saying you’re not sure what the advantage of that is going to be. Am I right in nutshelling it that way?

Cebina

Yeah. Beyond our foundational principles of the university, yeah. Absolutely. We’re not sure. There are costs associated with doing this, whether it be time or some financial investment, which we have made. Ultimately you want some sort of return on that, because you can’t just spend dollars until you’re out of dollars unless you know that there’s some value coming back in some way.

McGuire

I want to ask a little bit the cost, but let me first just make sure I understand some of the detail. Am I right in assuming that this psychology class and the others you’re going to try that they are adapting existing classes you have in your online programs?

Cebina

Our model is completely different than that. We didn’t want to take campus courses and transition them into a MOOC format. We felt that since there’s a lot of confusion with MOOCs and — you know, would they translate to credit or not — since that’s really unclear, that’s not really the model we’re looking at right now.

So our first course, The Science of Relationships, is really based on faculty expertise. You could find components of our MOOC in courses that CSU does offer for credit. But there isn’t one course that would be a direct match to this.

McGuire

So she’s designing a new course?

Cebina

Correct. Based on her research interests, and she is involved in many different projects in the science of relationships as a researcher, so this was a really good fit. In our MOOCs that are planned in the future, the concept of water, we have a huge amount of expertise on campus when it comes to water, so we’ve actually matched up, I don’t know the exact number . . .

Tarantino

Over nine faculty members. It’s over nine at the moment.

Cebina

We’ve matched them all up to give their piece of expertise to this in a way that’s going to flow — using a pun there — in a really good way. So we’re not matching one-to-one with credit-bearing courses at all.

McGuire

I see. So you’re leveraging your experience teaching online and probably your infrastructure, but the curriculum itself maybe is being redesigned for this particular space.

Cebina

Correct.

McGuire

Curriculum might be the wrong word. The classes are being redesigned for that space.

Cebina

Yes.

McGuire

That’s very interesting. Do you have a particular target audience for the MOOCs?

Cebina

[pullquote position=”right”]In this realm you look for free to low-cost marketing, so we’ve been able to get access to different listservs with press releases that we’ve done. A lot of the currently enrolled students have come from those efforts. [/pullquote]We do have some students on campus. Well, based on our assumptions and the email address they’re using. We don’t have much ability to collect anything beyond first name, last name and email, but we’re making assumptions that they’re current students. We know from our recruiting staff that there are some potential students that are currently enrolled in The Science of Relationships MOOC waiting for it to begin.

But really we were just looking at trying to get as many people as who are interested in social psychology and how it pertains to relationships. That’s really our target at this point. We haven’t really narrowed it down. I think version 1.0 — I expect there will be new versions in the future — that we’ll have a better sense as to who it is who is really gravitating toward this opportunity.

McGuire

Based on some interviews I’ve done with some other folks, I can some predictions on what might happen, but I wonder what attempts you’ve made to predict. Where did you reach for input from other people who have experience with this?

Cebina

The first thing we did is we started researching anything that was out there, and we started enrolling in other MOOCs, which was really an enlightening experience for us. We’ve noticed that just over — I mean, this has been in the planning stages for a couple of years now — but we noticed that in the short time that we’ve been planning this that there’s been a lot of changes within MOOCs. The types of survey information folks are collecting from the participants have become much different or have changed in the past year and a half to two years. It seems like they’re more aggressive with trying to capture more information than just first name, last name, email, and a lot more surveys are popping up.

It seems that there is a push to increase completion rates in MOOCs. I think that was part of the beginning process.

The nice part about this partnership with Dr. Jennifer Harmon who’s our faculty member facilitating the first MOOC is that she’s got a lot of connections in the field of social psychology, so we’ve leveraged a lot of that.

We’ve done a little bit of Google Adwords. We’ve invested some money, and the nice part is that there’s not a lot of competitive bids up there for MOOCs at this moment, so we’re getting some traction on that without having to spend a ton of money.

McGuire

I can think of two other examples of what I call independent MOOCs — that is, off of the major platforms — where a university is using an LMS like Blackboard or Desire2Learn. They think, “Oh, it’s just going to be in our local contacts — our regular network.” And then something gets posted internationally. In one case, it was a high school in Florida, and they were running an A.P. test program online open to anybody, and this Australian radio station heard about it and interviewed them. So these places are getting surprised that they have students from around the world where they anticipated it would just be in their local email lists where all the publicity happened.

Tarantino

We have 81% of the students — because we did a pre-course survey, though our course hasn’t started yet — the students who have registered, we have nearly 400 now in the the first class, which we’re pretty happy about. We have 81% of those people are from the United States, but that’s only 81%. We have been people from Serbia, South Korea, Philippines, a couple from the United Kingdom. We’re actually pretty shocked about the reach that we’re having so far having not marketed that vastly or mainly just marketed to our current students and people in the Science and Relationships website and things like that, so it’s kind of shocking to us.

McGuire

And you’ve got three weeks to go. It will probably accelerate quite a bit before it starts. Let me ask about the resources. What resources do you need to do this as compared to your traditional online classes?

Tarantino

Well, honestly, we are trying to use or leverage all of our current resources. We have TILT within CSU, which is The Institute for Learning and Teaching, and they actually help us create our current online courses, so they are doing the same thing with this. They have a course developer, and they are working with us and the instructors in creating the flow of it.

Interestingly enough, we have, I think, the first time we’ve ever employed a web developer for an actual courses — for our first MOOC and for our interface. We used our current web developer for OnlinePlus to create the interface, and it’s quite cool, actually. Most of the resources that we have been using are pretty standard. There aren’t very many new ones.

McGuire

What about the LMS?

Tarantino

Oh, CourseSites. Yes. We are using Blackboard CourseSites. We use normal Blackboard for our online courses, and that’s why we decided to go with CourseSites. It is free, and we weren’t sure how it would go originally, but since our course developers and our instructors and everybody are used to Blackboard, we thought it would be a very easy and nice transition, so that was kind of a nice thing about it.

McGuire

What about the salaries of staff and faculty time? Let me start with the faculty. Does she need to get a release from her regular teaching load in order to do this?

Cebina

There wasn’t a release from our normal teaching load, but there were was a nominal stipend given for the development of the course in addition to regular pay.

McGuire

I see. So nominal stipends for the instructor. What kind of — I guess different terms have been used in different classes, but like teaching assistants and staff that are helping to manage the tech and answer student questions — what sort of staff do you have in place for that?

Tarantino

That’s Jody and I.

Cebina

That’s us. We’ve rearranged our worlds to be able to devote some of our time to this, because it is an experiment, so as all good experiments go . . . .

Tarantino

Yeah, we are taking on more, and we don’t really know how much it’s going to take up of our time, and we’re not really turning down other things. It’s just in addition in to what we currently have going on. So far it hasn’t been too much, but the class hasn’t started yet.

Cebina

Admittedly, it’s fun so far, because it’s nice to be part of this experiment in higher education. So I think we’re running on adrenaline of the fun and excitement of something new. [pullquote position=”right”]We did have a conversation early on of what happens if we get five people, if we get five hundred people, if we get five thousand or more people? And we cringed at five thousand or more and thought, gosh, if this gets to around five hundred to a thousand, we can probably manage it for version 1.0.[/pullquote]

McGuire

The question everybody has is about the business model, and I don’t want to put words in your mouth, but what I’m hearing is the business model here is that there’s little to no financial resources and to make it happen everybody’s got to work harder.

Tarantino

Yes, kind of.

Cebina

Right now, yeah. We did, as I mentioned previously, set aside a small amount of money to do some marketing, because we did want this to attract a larger amount of students, and we know, not using one of the big platforms, that that would be a bigger hurdle. But it does seem to us that CourseSites is getting some traction, because prior to doing any emails to our internal lists or what-have-you, we were getting enrollments prior to doing any of that marketing. It wasn’t in large numbers, but we were pretty surprised to have student enrollments prior to sending anything out about it. All we did was open it up in the CourseSites catalog, and on we went.

McGuire

I want to ask about the class itself, but one last thing about the resources. Will you just run through the list for me of the different positions or roles of people who had to be involved?

Cebina

Sure. We have obviously our faculty member, Dr. Jennifer Harmon. Alysha and myself put time to this on a daily basis, and the instructional designer that we have at The Institute for Learning and Teaching. They have a course load that they work on each term developing new courses, so this MOOC was substituted in for one of those courses for our instructional designer.

Tarantino

Our marketing team. Our internal marketing team, or internal recruitment and retention team and our internal web designer and developer.

McGuire

Okay, thank you very much. Let me ask about the class a little bit more — how you guys are thinking about the classes. In your view or from what you’re hearing from the instructor, how are the learning objectives in this model different from or the same as the learning objectives in your other online offerings?

Cebina

I think the first thing is that we do have learning objectives. I don’t know how you develop anything that has the goal of teaching and learning — I don’t know how you do that without them. [pullquote position=”right”]We did have learning objectives, but at the same time, we were considering information that we collected from research in that only about 3 to 4 percent of folks ever complete this type of activity on average. That really went into our model.[/pullquote]

One, we wanted to serve what we’re seeing as three different populations — a small percentage that’s going to do everything in the course, and we are offering what we’re calling a statement of accomplishment for doing that. We also have . . . You don’t have to do everything in the course to earn the statement, but there is a list or a checklist of things you need to do to earn it, and that’s category number two — those that are doing the minimum to earn the statement. And then there’s those who just want to pick and choose which areas of the course that they want to be involved with. Some of them may enroll and do nothing, and we’re aware of that.

Part of the instructional strategy with this — and Alysha mention our interface — is we really didn’t want to fully use the model of best practices in the development of online courses, because that’s really designed for a credit world, or even a non-credit world where there is a specific outcome. So the way we’ve designed our course is that — I use this analogy, and most like it — that we really took the approach of like a magazine table of contents. You could read the magazine from front cover to back cover and at the completion of that we will give you a statement of accomplishment if you do the activities along the way. But we expect that most students won’t do that.

So you can actually pick and choose which particular area that you want to dive into with the course. There’s eight areas representing eight weeks, so eight modules. And each of those modules has three components to them, and students are allowed to dig deeper, should they choose to, in all of those, down to a third level. So you get the intro information and the general concepts, and there are some fun activities that go with that, and then you can dive deeper into that if that’s a particular subject area that you’re excited about. And then you actually have a third level that you can dive deeper into.

I think early on we decided that we couldn’t find any resources — and I don’t think they exist — for best practices in developing MOOCs. We wanted to make sure that we could reach all the different potential students and based that on the research that we found about how students tend to move through these or how they don’t tend to move through them so that all could have a good experience even if they just wanted to do one thing. That’s how we’ve designed it. We don’t know if it’s right. But we think it might be.

Tarantino

Yeah. We want all students to be successful, no matter how they start out, whatever they want from it. As long as it’s successful for them, that is a positive experience

McGuire

For you, what is the characteristic that determines if a class should be for-credit or not? This is massive. It will be more people than the teacher can individually interact with, so that’s one of the key characteristics that make a MOOC different from other classes, online or on campus. Can you picture a situation like that where it might potentially be worth awarding a credit?

Cebina

It’s not really being done now. We have a sister school here in the state that attempted to award credit for someone else’s MOOC, and we just saw a recent article that no one took advantage of that. We have a very strict curricular process here at the university for the approval of transferring courses. That process goes through academic departments and the colleges and our university curriculum committee, and, in addition to that, those courses that are delivered at a distance or online have an additional set of things that have to be approved for them to be offered as a credit-bearing online course.

I don’t live in solitude. I think there is a potential at some point in the future for awarding credit. I don’t think that’s soon for us, though.

McGuire

Just looking at the dates, this one is late September to the middle of November, so it’s about 5-6 weeks shorter than a typical semester. Is it covering less material or is it introductory in some way that’s different from other classes?

Tarantino

I would say it is probably covering less material, but also we’re taking a different look at this class. It’s a little bit more trying to get students involved in more — I don’t want to say more exciting . . . . One thing, for example, that we’re doing in this class is they’re doing community mixtapes. This is not something you would have in a normal class, relating songs to content. But they’re actually going to be loading songs into this about breakups if there’s a song that reminds you of a breakup or something like that. That’s not normally something that we would have in a normal class, but students are relating the concepts that are being talked about to relationships in celebrity couples or things like that. Normally, you wouldn’t have things like that in a credit-bearing class. But we are having that in this class, because, number one, it’s going to be fun and get students involved. Also, it’s a way to connect with students where they are.

[pullquote position=”right”]One thing that is totally different that I see with MOOCs and credit-bearing classes is there are prerequisites to credit-bearing classes, right? Students have to have a certain GPA or have graduated from high school in order to get into undergraduate classes and graduate classes. And you don’t have that with MOOCs. There’s no screening process.[/pullquote] We don’t know where all these students are, and they could be . . . I mean we could have twelve year olds and seventy year olds, and Ph.D.s and people who are in [inaudible]. So all the information has to be digestible where they are. There is that whole going deeper piece, but in order for it to be successful for everyone, it has to be in different terms. The activities have to be a little bit different, too. That changes the way you’re thinking about the class and what kind of activities you’re going to be doing and the concepts, too.

Cebina

I think we’ve shied away from the really stern languages about requirements. And in looking at what content is there, first of all, we do have many successful eight-week for-credit online courses, so I’m not worried about the particular time frame, but from my experience we have less assessment in this course, so that would have to change if this was to convert to a credit-bearing course at some point.

The role of of faculty as facilitator, that’s going to be a little softer than it would be in a for-credit course. In Alysha and I’s experience in enrolling in MOOCs, it’s a very soft facilitation process. You get a weekly email. No one cares if you do what’s on the list or not. And the next week you get an email as if nothing happened the previous work. You just move forward should you choose to. We would have to rethink that strategy if we wanted to convert this to a credit course, but I do think that’s in the distant future at this point.

McGuire

Let me ask about the planning of it. Have you come across any unanticipated challenges yet?

Cebina

Lots.

McGuire

Yeah, I asked a yes-no question. It probably should have been, “What are the unanticipated challenges?”

Cebina

Yes. Alysha, do you want to take that, since you deal with a lot of them?

Tarantino

Interestingly, we have actually set up a MOOC question box. We actually have a certain email, and we have a MOOC team. We have Jody, myself and then people on our recruitment and retention team, and we all answer it communally. And we are going with a free LMS, so we totally understand. We have had a couple of issues with that. We like CourseSites — not saying anything bad about it, just that we had some issues we didn’t intend on having.

And we’ve also had a couple other of issues with student questions about the degrees — having a masters in, I don’t know, computer science, if we have MOOCs with that and if we have free classes that pertain to masters degrees. [pullquote position=”right”]I think the actual MOOC name, not everyone knows what it is still, so there’s some confusion. When students see a free class, they think, “Oh, are all these classes free?” [/pullquote]There’s been a little bit of that confusion and mitigating that. We tried very much to be explicit on the website that these are different and these are our free classes and not everything is free.

Other than that, the issues we’ve had — I actually think it’s gone pretty well. I don’t know. Jody, what do you think?

Cebina

I think it has gone pretty well. The registration process has been somewhat problematic for us, and that has to do with bad timing in Java updates. Students couldn’t get enrolled during the period when we were sending out emails, so that created a lot of work for us working with people individually to get them enrolled manually rather than using the CourseSites registration tool, which is what we linked people to.

Then along with the confusion . . . . [pullquote position=”right”]It takes a lot of time when a student is confused about what this opportunity is to exchange emails with them. I’ve had email exchanges that have gone beyond fifteen responses just to build awareness of what this really is with an individual. [/pullquote]Those things take time. When you’re doing this as fun and exciting stuff but extra to your regular job it just sticks out more for you.

McGuire

You mentioned the recruitment and retention folks. Is part of the impetus for this hoping to recruit more students to stay with OnlinePlus after they’ve taken this free MOOC?

Cebina

Sure we would like that. We’re taking a very soft approach to that. Just in putting press releases out there and doing some email marketing, we have had students who have reached out to us that are interested in more information. But we’ve taken a very soft approach to that. It has to be student driven or prospective student driven, so we connect them with our recruiting and retention team if they have goals beyond just a course and are interested in credit-bearing courses or degrees.

Within our MOOC, we do have some OnlinePlus branding and some options to connect with us about credit-bearing opportunities, but we’re not going with any hard sell for any of this. We’re really doing it to do it, because that’s what a state land-grant university should be doing is more access to education. At the same time we want to find out what potential value there is in this beyond our original goals, so I think it’s a good idea to give potential students opportunities to connect with us as an institution on a larger scale should they want to.

McGuire

The last question is really asking you to speak to your peers. Most state university systems have some online classes in some form. Maybe they’re developed into full degree programs or not. For any academic officers or program directors like yourselves at other state institutions out there who are hearing this word MOOC and wondering what it’s going to mean for them, what would you advise them?

Tarantino

Choose the platform as early as possible — the learning management system. Choose it as early as you can. What would you say is number two?

McGuire

Let me ask why? Why is that the first decision?

Tarantino

What we did first is we went through and figured out what MOOCs meant to us and what they are and where they could possibly go, and we did a lot of research on the back end. Then we did research on learning management systems, and, especially when you’re actually building the course, knowing what your learning management system is going to be, it is a lot easier to build your course when you know that. The capabilities of learning management systems, and there are idiosyncrasies and differences . . . it’s just easier.

Cebina

I would add to that . . . [pullquote position=”right”]I would say the biggest component of our work was really talking about logistics. I would have wished we would have had that conversation from the start, and choosing a platform is part of those logistics. [/pullquote]Really, because we didn’t want to bring this internal to our own Blackboard system that we have on campus — because there’s lots of reasons why not to do that — that was a decision that was made and the discovery of logistics . . . We basically took our model of here’s how students run through our system, whether they’re for-credit, whether they’re non-matriculated guest students, whether they’re just taking a class through us, and we kind of compared, “Okay, so do we want the registration process to look like for MOOCs?”

We spent lots of time in front of whiteboards. Alysha’s good at drawing, and I’m not. But once we got through the logistical stages of all of it, it was pretty clear to us that there was a very small subset of things — or platform or learning management systems — that would meet our needs for version one.

McGuire

Alright. Anything else? Any other advice for your peers and colleagues?

Cebina

Yeah, we have a few more for you. I think having as clear a purpose as you can at the beginning is a great thing. From my perspective it seems to change a little bit over time, but our core value to all of this always has stayed strong.

Resource-wise, the conversations about, you know, this isn’t something that drives revenue and so where can you pull resources from to do this? [pullquote position=”right”]I think it makes sense to spend a little bit of money, but you could easily spend lots of money and be very unsure about the return on that — if you’re ever going to get any of that back. [/pullquote]Especially as a state university, we need to good stewards of the state’s money that we get, and we need to be good stewards of the tuition money that we collect from students.

One of my passions in all of this is we looked at best practices. I think we mentioned this earlier. But we looked at best practices for online learning didn’t seem to fit in what we were doing for MOOCs, so we took that as kind of a base, yet at the same time we didn’t use it as the sole base for creating the MOOC. We did our research. We looked at the different types of students who typically go through MOOCs and how they behave and what they do. We had to change our development model to try to meet that. I’m sure version two will meet that even more. But we think we’re set up really well in version one.

McGuire

You mentioned signing up for other MOOCs. For people who are unfamiliar with MOOCs, I think one of the first things you’ve got to get a hold of is the fact that the ones we’re seeing in the media most often on the major platforms are just part of the landscape and that a situation like yours that are independent of those major platforms . . . there’s a lot more going on out there than what’s on Coursera, edX and Udacity. So I wonder when you signed up for MOOCs what are some of them that you looked at?

Cebina

I personally picked ones that I would be interested in, because I thought that I would have a better chance of being more participative if it was an area I was interested in. At the same time, I tried to look at a breadth of things. Frankly, I didn’t complete a one of them. But I sure did have a lot fun along the way. I have been looking at others that have piqued my interest, so I will definitely be enrolling in more, but it was really a wide barrage of things based on my personal preferences.

McGuire

Were some of them off those major platforms?

Tarantino

I went ahead and signed up for at least one MOOC with every platform I could find, and as I liked the platform then I signed up for more, since I was doing a lot of the research of trying to find the learning management system or platform. Just about every platform that was out there I have taken a class in — not that I finished it. I did do some things, though. But the classes that I took were anywhere from game theory to . . . I think I even did one, it was a crafting thing. I don’t know. I did one on Greek mythology, which was actually pretty interesting, and I think I did more in that class than in any of the other classes that I did. There’s just tons of them out there. I think I even saw one on knitting, which was quite interesting. I did not register for that one.

McGuire

The one on game theory we’re going to have a review of that next week. It was from one of the community colleges there in Colorado, right?

Tarantino

Oh, I took game theory from — I don’t remember which institution, but it was actually back in January. It was not from one of our Colorado colleges.

McGuire

Oh, a different class on game theory. Arapahoe Community College has a class that they just conclused and they’re just about to start the second iteration of it, and we’ll have a review that up in a few days.

Tarantino

Oh, nice. We’ll have to check that out.

Cebina

Well, we would love folks to enroll in our MOOCs.

McGuire

Naturally. We’ll definitely have a link in this interview and share it around. Thank you very much for your time, guys. I’m sure your peers are going to appreciate it.

Tartantino

Thank you very much.

Cebina

Great. Thanks to you, as well.