-HOUR ONE- RENSE: I think we're up and running here. A little rocky, the day after the fourth of July, but I think we're connected to Japan. This is going to be interesting. An awful lot of email has been coming in about the story from Dr. Henry Makow, Ph.D., called "Chinese Secret Society Challenges Illuminati." This is a very interesting story, something the likes of which I have not seen in all the years of doing this program or website. The author is Benjamin Fulford - the author quoted in the story. He is a North American, Canadian to be specific, expatriate living in Japan now. Let's just bring him on and say hello, see how he's doing and check this connection out. Are you there, Ben? FULFORD: Yeah, I'm here. RENSE: OK, we've got a little bit of delay. FULFORD: It's a cell phone, so the reception is not so good. RENSE: Well, you sound all right. There's a bit of a delay, so we'll have to deal with that. A lot of people have been asking me, could this be real? Is this a hoax? Is this a joke? What is it? We're going to find out much more about this story, so stay with us tonight as we continue this conversation with Benjamin Fulford. He is the former Asia-Pacific bureau chief for Forbes Magazine, and he quit in disgust when Forbes refused to run a damaging story about one of its advertisers. Boy, I know that game, and many of us in the media do - [those] who try to tell as close to the truth as we can without losing our jobs. In this case, Ben did eventually lose his job, because Forbes wouldn't back him. It's a story I've heard before. He speaks as a very principled man - a reporter, journalist in the best tradition. Let's find out from Ben exactly what happened. First of all, Ben, when were you named Asian bureau chief for Forbes, and what was your background before that, if you would? FULFORD: Okay. I've been a journalist in Japan for about 20 years. I was bureau chief for Forbes from 1998 to 2004-2005. RENSE: That's a good long stretch. FULFORD: Then I left for a lot of different complications. RENSE: Your relationship with Forbes, up until the time you decided to part ways with them, was how? You were there with them for almost eight years, I guess. FULFORD: It started out as a rather cushy job. They let me investigate a lot of stuff about Japanese organized crime and the seedier side of things in Japan. However, at a certain point I seemed to be getting too close to something they didn't want me to get to, and they started stopping stories. There was a corruption story about GE that didn't make it. Another one about Citibank didn't make it. Then when I finally found out there was an anti-virus software company who was actually making viruses, that was it. RENSE: [Laughs] Yeah. FULFORD: That was the last straw for me. RENSE: They do that, I've heard. Why not? Once in a while you hear about firemen actually starting fires. I don't know, it's bizarre. That's what software companies that are in the anti-virus protection business are accused of doing from time to time - if not directly, then indirectly. It wouldn't surprise me. When did you learn to speak Japanese? FULFORD: Well, I went to university in Japan. I came here when I was 19, and I've been here more than 20 years, so I just got it early on. RENSE: Did it come easy to you? FULFORD: Well, it's a very difficult language. Not grammatically, but because you have to grasp a whole new way of thinking. You have to understand that Asian culture and Western culture parted ways about 40,000 years ago. RENSE: [Laughs] FULFORD: That means there's 40,000 years of folk wisdom that you have to catch up with to really understand what's going on, and that's very, very difficult. RENSE: You mean four thousand, instead of forty thousand. There was nobody around back then, supposedly. FULFORD: What I mean is genetic tests show that's when we separated - Orientals and Caucasians. RENSE: I got it. Okay. Now with respect to the Asian mind, Western minds - the American mind in particular, we'll just keep it to North America and Canada - are not basically understood. I predicate that statement on not having been there, not having any experience, but having talked to the former TIME bureau chief for Beijing on the [Rense] program some years ago. He said, when I asked him what the Asian mind thought about American Western diplomacy, in China specifically, he laughed. He said they consider Americans to be but children in a sandbox. That's the gulf we're talking about here. Now would that remark ring true to you in any way? FULFORD: Yes, in part. Another way they look at Western society is as a slave society. RENSE: Slave society? FULFORD: A slave society. RENSE: Well, indeed it is. Go ahead. FULFORD: Controlled in secret by a group of, well, Huckleberry Finn slave drivers. RENSE: Well, we call them Illuminati, we call them Bilderbergers, CFR, Trilateral Commission. We can throw in Skull and Bones, the Club of Rome, the Fabian Society - all sorts of secret cartels, cabals and groups. But at the top, it's a fairly singular power source, and it is certainly one of slave-owner to slaves. The encumbering of the slaves is becoming ever more adroit. With each passing month, it seems, the technology and politics are changing so quickly over here. The view from Japan of North America. Let's talk about the United States. How is it for you, an expatriate from Canada? FULFORD: Living in Japan, you mean? RENSE: Yeah. What's it look like over there? What we're doing over here. And I mean 'we' with President Bush, Vice President Cheney, of course enjoying the lowest ratings, probably, in Presidential and Vice Presidential history. The American polls show the respect for the US Congress virtually around 14-15 percent in terms of job satisfaction. So tell me more. FULFORD: It looks like maybe Russia did just before the Iron Curtain fell. It looks like a huge sea change is about to happen. Like the biggest thing since the Declaration of Independence, I think. RENSE: Well yes, almost the antithesis of [the Declaration of Independence]. I can see how that would be a view from over there, and it's probably far more loaded with merit than we would like to agree. Things are happening over here, as I think you well know, at a very rapid pace now. The controllers are literally pushing things in the American public's face that are so unconstitutional and illegal as to be laughable, if they weren't so tragic. FULFORD: I think these people are scared. They are trying to carry out a plan. They are desperate now. Their plan is so horrendous and so bizarre, it provokes a split - even within their own ranks. RENSE: I've heard talk of factions. You mentioned the words "they are desperate," the key word being 'desperate.' There are others who have said the same kind of thing - [the controllers] sense there is a window through which they must move, now, if they are ever going to move. Do you agree with that? FULFORD: Yes. Let me tell you something. I was offered the job of finance minister in Japan by the Freemasons. Okay? RENSE: When? FULFORD: I brought [my case against] David Rockefeller. I actually was able to link him to some murders of bankers and other people in Japan, as a part of his effort to take over the Japanese financial system. When I confronted the former Japanese finance minister, Heizo Takanaka (ph) with this, he sent a ninja, believe it or not - a real live ninja - who offered me a gold Freemason badge. He told me I could either accept a job of great power or be killed. At first I thought I had no choice, I had to go along, which is what happens to a lot of people when they get pulled into this. But then the Chinese secret society showed up and offered me protection. So that's why I can talk about this. I want to tell you. I got right inside, right at the very top. Anybody up to a 33rd degree Freemason is a chump. They think they're doing good for humankind and they're doing God's work. There are 13 degrees above the 33rd degree. RENSE: So I've heard. FULFORD: The first thing they learn is that there is no God. We are God. This is what they are taught. And they are, believe it or not, the descendants of Babylonian pirates. This goes back almost 6000 years. It's ancient Babylonian slave-driver technology. They use a combination of bribes, murder, ostracism, mind control, whatever. They have a huge arsenal. They think very, very long term. The story I've figured out now is that when they started with the Zionism, they had this plan to make a capital in Jerusalem. A lot of the religious Jews thought of this as blasphemy, but they actually did it. [Bumper music begins] And then there was a convergence. There was a really radical faction that had this plan to eliminate Christianity. Now this is going to sound so horrendous, believe me... RENSE: Hold on right there, Ben. Let me ask you to pause. We'll take a break, and come back to that thought. Eliminating Christianity. Very interesting. Lots already on the table here. My guest is Benjamin Fulford, the former Asia-Pacific bureau chief for Forbes magazine, who has just a stunningly provocative piece up on the site written by Dr. Henry Makow, Ph.D., who interviewed Ben at great length. You'll see it up there on Featured Stories, on the left hand side of my home page. So by all means, take a look. Right under that, a story written by Benjamin Fulford - the Secret History of the Freemasons in Japan - as well. Be back in a minute. [Break] RENSE: Okay, back with Benjamin Fulford, live from Tokyo. He, by the way, has published 15 books written in Japanese, with cumulative sales running at over half a million copies. He's got his own weekly two-hour television program over there, appears frequently on numerous other nationally broadcast programs in Japan, and has regular columns in a variety of best-selling Japanese magazines. My guest, Benjamin Fulford. Lucky to connect with him. At showtime we couldn't get through to his land line, which I had a hunch might be the case. These controversial subjects, one never knows who might be playing phone games. We have him on the line right now. Go ahead and tell us, then, what this story about abolishing Christianity is about. Is that about the one world, New World Order religion? FULFORD: Yes. What I first got wind of was a plan to kill Asians - reduce the population of Asians. They told me, once I was invited in, that they had a plan to reduce the population of Asians. RENSE: Okay, excuse me, Ben, but when you say "They invited you in," who is 'They' and what were you 'in'? FULFORD: What happened was I interviewed Heizo Takanaka (ph), the former Japanese finance minister. RENSE: What year was this, approximately? FULFORD: This year, in fact. I hit a tender spot. I confronted him with having sold the Japanese financial system over to the Rockefellers. Then he sent the ninja, who offered me to join the Freemasons. They offered me the job as finance minister. RENSE: If I might interject here, please explain what it is. Most Americans and most listening in Canada, or wherever they're listening from around the world, won't understand why or how the Rockefellers are so heavily entrenched and powerful in Japan. In point of fact, the Rockefellers, I guess, own much of Japan, and have since World War Two. So tell us a little bit about that background, if you would. FULFORD: The Rockefellers, you have to understand their real influence. Everybody outside of America seems to know how powerful they are, but they try to hide this fact from their own people. You have to go back to the very first Rockefeller. You have to go back to 1918. This is what Forbes magazine figured out... RENSE: John Rockefeller? FULFORD: Yeah. He was worth about 250 billion in today's money. And the ten richest people controlled about 70 percent of the money supply. This was before they took over the financial system - the Fed. What they've done is hidden it all through a series of charitable foundations. There's over two hundred, three hundred foundations. They use this to finance universities, to finance research. So they control through money, and they hide it through these foundations. If you do a check, you will see David Rockefeller is only worth three billion or so. That's because the rest of it is hidden in these charitable foundations, which they own and control. RENSE: Okay, name a few of them. Just give us a few. FULFORD: Well, the Rockefeller foundation, for one. There's a whole bunch. Just look under Google with Rockefeller and Foundation, and you'll see so many. They're always considered the secret rulers of the United States, and much of the world. They are the hidden patriarchs of this secret government. RENSE: Okay. How did the Rockefellers, on the planet, stand up to the Rothschilds? FULFORD: There is an alliance and a split as well. The Rothschilds originally set the Rockefellers up. They helped them monopolize oil. What happened was the Rockefellers got very strong, and became the more dominant partners in the whole enterprise. Europe is still basically controlled by the Rothschilds. The head of the Rothschild side of the clan is Phillip Rothschild, in London. There is another group that controls France, Belgium and Holland, which is the Grand Lodge of the Orient in France, and is another branch of the Rothschilds. There was a German branch of the Rothschilds. They have laid low since Hitler was purged. You have to think of it as royalty. Royal families interbred with old financial families. They interbreed with each other and they keep control that way. The Freemasons are one of the secret societies they use to control European and North American society. RENSE: Who uses the Freemasons? The Rothschilds or the Rockefellers, or both? FULFORD: They both do. They also control Mossad and the CIA, as far as I can tell. Most of the people in the CIA think they're working for the United States of America. The reality is they are working for robber barons. So that's how people look at the United States. They look at it as an enclave controlled by the Rothschilds and the Rockefellers. RENSE: How did that extend to Japan? By virtue of the victory in World War II? FULFORD: Yes. It keeps being a Rothschild sphere of influence and became a Rockefeller sphere of influence. You have to understand the Japanese were pretty independent before World War II, but they had close associations with the Rothschilds, who originally financed their modernization. RENSE: They also pushed the Japanese to engage in the Russo-Japanese war, did they not? FULFORD: Yes. Absolutely. They armed them for it, and they helped them, and it was a very successful venture. The Japanese had a deep gratitude as a result. [Bumper music] To this day, they have very friendly feelings. RENSE: All right. Let's pause on that, and we'll come back and find out about the eradication of Christianity on the planet, and the Masonic influence, being of course employed at the behest of the Rockefellers and / or the Rothschilds. So we'll explore that. My guest is Benjamin Fulford, who has a dynamite article up there, courtesy of the superb, I call him brilliant writer, Henry Makow, Ph.D., who did a lot of research on this and interviewed Ben at great length. We're very honored to have it. You'll see it up there in Featured Stories. "Chinese Secret Society Challenges Illuminati." Be right back with Ben Fulford in just a minute. [Break] RENSE: Okay, back with Benjamin Fulford. Read the article by Dr. Henry Makow, Ph.D., "Chinese Secret Society Challenges Illuminati," and then read the article by Ben Fulford right under that, in the Featured Story box at <http://rense.com/>Rense.com. Click on Ben's name, go to his own website in English. It's his own website, in Japanese, of course, but he's got one for all of us folks as well. Okay, the plan to eliminate Christianity. Now you mentioned how the Rothschilds and the Zionists set up their Jerusalem and their Middle East. FULFORD: What they did was they tried to make the Bible prophecy come true, without the intervention of God. In other words, they did it. It wasn't any Divine intervention. So they are God. They believe themselves to be as powerful as God. [They believe] there is no God; they are the equivalent [of God] on Earth. They are the descendants of Babylonian tyrants. So one thing I've been hearing, and this was disturbing - when I was invited to join - was that they did plan to reduce the world's population by seven billion people. RENSE: This goes back to Global 2000. One more word about this severely atheistic organization, which is using organized religion to hide behind, as they always have. It's not a big surprise. And of course, that leads to all kinds of difficulties, shall we say. But it's an interesting thing to know. Okay. You were invited to join the organization. A Rockefeller ninja was sent to make you an offer you could not refuse. But you decided not to accept. FULFORD: Yes. RENSE: How did you decide not to accept? We have plenty of time. So you get the offer, and what happened? FULFORD: The next day I get contacted by a gentleman who says he represents a Chinese secret society. RENSE: The very next day. FULFORD: The very next day. RENSE: And how did that person know to contact you the very next day? How did you determine later on that he or she might have known that? FULFORD: I don't know. They keep their secrets quite well. I assume they have a mole very high up in the organization. You have to understand that the Chinese secret society also has deep roots in Japan. Maybe I should give you a brief history of these people. I recognized them from the history books. So when they approached me, I already had some knowledge about them. RENSE: May I ask another question? How did they approach you? Did they call you and say, "Ben, we'd like to talk to you," or did they just come knocking at your door? What happened? FULFORD: I got a phone call from a gentleman who said he'd like to meet me and talk about something important. RENSE: Was he speaking English or Japanese? FULFORD: Japanese. RENSE: All right. So let's go back and do a little history on this organization now. FULFORD: Okay. The Ming dynasty was the high point in Chinese history. This was when their civilization reached a peak. They were invaded by some very uncouth barbarians known as the Manchus. When this happened, the Ming army - they were betrayed by a border general - became an underground organization, a secret society. So there are two branches. The old Ming army and the old Ming navy. These are their descendants.