ucbEntilZha Profile Joined May 2010 United States 96 Posts #1 After reading the patch notes and talking with a couple friends there are a couple things that I noticed that could change Z play post patch.



Big thing is that Reapers will be far less common and easier to hold off because they will almost never have speed. Before 1.1.2 it was absolutely necessary to get Zergling speed because of that, but now it doesn't seem nearly as important. If I had a bet on why speed was moved to Factory, it was that it made it so that Z HAD to get Zling speed.



That being said, Zling speed won't be as important anymore so I could see faster expos becoming much more common as well as using the gas that would have been for speed to go lair tech and fast mutas.



From the T side, I would expect more reactor hellion and FE play. As Z I have been getting fast roach warrens vT when I can't scout to see what is up so I am happy about that. What other strategies might T use now that Reapers are not nearly as good as they once were?



What other previously uncommon strategies/adaptations could come out of Z having more freedom in the early game (i.e. Zling speed isn't necessary)? UC Berkeley CSL | http://www.cstarleague.com/league/teams/76 | follow us at justin.tv/ucberkeleycsl

RQShatter Profile Joined August 2010 United States 380 Posts #2



User was warned for this post



User was temp banned for this post. Speed will always be important because flanking and counterattacking are so important as zerg.

ZaaaaaM Profile Joined March 2010 Netherlands 1739 Posts Last Edited: 2010-10-14 20:51:55 #3

I know ill be going 14 hatch constantly from now on, it can still be killed by some bunker shenanigans but I think its pretty safe now. Roaches are better against hellions now aswell (not that much kiting anymore) so seems like zergs early game vT increased quite a bit On October 15 2010 05:49 RQShatter wrote:

Speed will always be important because flanking and counterattacking are so important as zerg.

OP is most likely talking about the early game- every zerg will get lingspeed in the longrun but on most locations u dont have to 14 gas 14 pool anymore, those 4 drones less on minerals hurt your economy that early quite a bit. OP is most likely talking about the early game- every zerg will get lingspeed in the longrun but on most locations u dont have to 14 gas 14 pool anymore, those 4 drones less on minerals hurt your economy that early quite a bit. no dude, the question

Zvendetta Profile Joined July 2010 United States 321 Posts #4



IdrA's macro styled play is so nice. I've actually been doing 14 hatch 13 pool since the first patch, but now i feel even stronger about itIdrA's macro styled play is so nice. "Its as if I can see the gears of the Eternal Alchemy spinning before, and I can almost reach out and turn them with my hands."

ucbEntilZha Profile Joined May 2010 United States 96 Posts #5 RQShatter, I agree speed at some poing is crucial, but I mean not having to get it ASAP might open up different lines of play. Zling is the only pure mineral dump so getting speed is necessary, but not right away now. UC Berkeley CSL | http://www.cstarleague.com/league/teams/76 | follow us at justin.tv/ucberkeleycsl

emc Profile Joined September 2010 United States 3068 Posts #6 zerg early game was an uphill battle, this should smooth things out but I never really thought roach range was the issue. Something like giving the queen 25 extra energy when she spawns to allow larve inject and creep tumors would help the early game greatly without effecting the unit balance. One of the problems was creep spread early on which allowed hellions and reapers complete early game control. With added energy, you can get that creep tumor out and not be behind on your macro and this would especially help with static defenses and slow roaches.



I don't think reapers should have their speed upgrade changed to factory, rather just remove or nerf their building attack which is just too strong imo. Nothing the other races have except banelings do so much damage to buildings so quickly it's ridiculous. Also did anyone ever notice that the reaper and hellion fulfill the same exact role? Both do tremendous damage to light units, both are used for harassing and both are quick, the only difference now is that with reaper speed at factory we probably won't ever see them again and will only be seeing hellions. Also with reapers costing 50/50 and hellions only 100 it's going to be an obvious choice.

Zeroes Profile Blog Joined April 2010 United States 1087 Posts #7 I think 5RR will be harder to stop and give options for early agression Check out my SC Lan pics Here: http://picasaweb.google.com/bunk.habit

XXXSmOke Profile Blog Joined November 2004 United States 1329 Posts #8 Just played my frist ZvT and while I know that one game is no where near enough to base facts around it is enough to get a general sense.



T has lost almost all of its early game aggression towards Z.



reaps are very weak because of speed not being til fact and now if they get roaches they can easily stop the reaps



hellions are still ok at harassing and at least containing, however dont expect to do much dmg as the roaches can easily chase you all day on creep.



Medevacs are horrendously slow now. They nerfed the overall speed and the acceleration. The acceleration nerf is huge, when you drop a Z your medevac has to stop and then when it moves it is takes a bit to regain its already slower speed. Not to mention the z buildings have that extra set of hp to keep it alive jsut long enough for the z to react.



Since this patch allows 14 hatch/15 hatch very easily I will now move onto countering it with my own FE followed by a rine tank medevac push turning this MU basically into BW. Emperor? Boxer disapproves. He's building bunkers at your mom's house even as you're reading this.

MrCon Profile Blog Joined August 2010 France 23163 Posts Last Edited: 2010-10-14 21:09:57 #9 Helion defense will be really easier, now zerg doesn't have to scout, he just can make 4 or 5 roaches blind and be harass proof as boukers rushes and reapers will be non existant post 1.1.2

Cyber_Cheese Profile Blog Joined July 2010 Australia 3609 Posts #10 hmm when they said they were buffing Z buildings i was hoping theyd at least have something like spawning pool > hp than a single rax The moment you lose confidence in yourself, is the moment the world loses it's confidence in you.

lim1017 Profile Joined April 2010 Canada 1246 Posts #11 hellion reactor is going to be much weaker... as someone said they can blindly make 3 roaches and be safe.



T also cant expand as fast behind the reactor hellion because 4 range roches now bust wall ins alot easier.



all the T will have is a couple marines if he doesnt bunker up hes dead.

Gimpb Profile Joined August 2010 246 Posts Last Edited: 2010-10-14 22:39:14 #12 Wow, that patch sure came quickly.



The three-pronged reaper beat down seems a bit overdone though



I'm wondering what removing the energy bars on corruptors and thors was about. I guess they thought both units needed a boost vs toss?



Edit: Just noticed that roaches seem to be able to shoot pylons at the bottom of at least some ramps from out of sight. :o

noD Profile Blog Joined August 2010 2151 Posts #13 I think baneling bust will be more commom so t will have to adapt to best wall ins, since roach range is stronger getting to t base will be more deadlier, also I see more tank play to contain, overall T more turtling and Z more aggro ...

asmo.0 Profile Joined August 2010 Norway 318 Posts #14 I guess I still will go my standard 14 hatch, 15 pool, only feel alot more safe and can do it on every map...



The delayed void ray play is not gonna be as scary anymore either, as I reckon 3 queens will manage 3 void rays with 1 transfuse just barely now.

Victim Profile Joined August 2010 United States 188 Posts #15 Terran FE seems less viable because roaches can just walk all over my base without more significant defenses. Reactor hellion into expand seems much less safe.



tackklee Profile Joined September 2010 United States 270 Posts #16 Why wouldn't speed be important anymore? Speedlings give good map control and cost efficient early defense as well as counter offense. Just because reaper speed gets delayed by like 50 seconds doesn't mean zerg doesn't need speed.

Pobearo Profile Joined August 2009 United States 348 Posts #17 It seems like TvZ harass which was once so strong, is pretty much gone. Reapers are gone and roaches can now pretty much stop hellions in their tracks. With the supply depot barracks change, no more proxy rax/bunker rushes. We've still got banshees I guess?

DoubleRainbow Profile Joined July 2010 Canada 85 Posts #18



User was warned for this post Terran are gonna end up 100% mech. "WOW, THAT IS SO INTENSE"

universalwill Profile Blog Joined August 2010 United States 654 Posts #19 now i feel totally confident to 14hatch 14pool on the only map i didn't feel comfortable to do it on before (steppes). it was pretty safe beforehand because i found that most players didn't early pressure so they could save up all their resources for a more powerful all-in later. but now it's a really safe build in both zvp and zvt.



i'm also thinking of changing my build and opening roaches against terran. get a later gas, and delay ling speed to get about 4 roaches out. what with roaches now having 4 range, i'll be able to apply pressure to wall-ins, which should help in delaying tech rushes. i may not have map control that speedlings grant me for a while, but i find roaches to be a much sturdier unit, and slowlings paired with roaches against early pushes will be just as good as pure speedling.



as for tvz, i still think hellion harass is viable. it's just that they're not guaranteed to get kills anymore. you actually have to control them carefully now. oh, and the flying cloaked terran reaver is still just as frightening as ever.

Thrawn1324 Profile Blog Joined October 2010 United States 66 Posts #20 I already did mostly mech vs zerg. I will be interested in the roach range increase and how much power that gives them. Roaches are going to make a huge come back with being able to get the lair sooner and have tunneling claws. A little micro intensive for the zerg but can destroy a terran army early game (T is going to have 1 scan max)





The hp increase is going to be fine but my gut just feels like blizzard is saying to the zerg, do you want to lose this building yet? No? okay!



"To our wives and our lovers, pray they never meet"

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