A recent air quality monitoring survey, released on Monday by Greenpeace, found that the deadly PM2.5 levels in Delhi are 10 times higher than the safety limit prescribed by the World Health Organisation (WHO) and four times more than even the Indian safety limit.



Rahul Kanwal spoke to Minister for Environment and Forests Prakash Javadekar on the issue. Here are the excerpts:

Q . A Shocking Greenpeace Study says that Delhi is the most polluted city in the world. We are all breathing poison. Is the government aware and what is it planning to do about it? Sir, I want to understand from you whether there is an acceptance in the government that Delhi is now the most polluted city in the world?

A. Absolutely, I understand that the situation of air quality in Delhi and in many other cities is very critical and bad. But that is not only India's story, it's the story of many cities, because the way we are growing. Unfortunately what happened in the last 10 years, this ministry became in a way licence permit quota "Raj". Instead it should have devolved more energy on air pollution, water pollution, clean energy. We are laying that emphasis and I am now initiating a campaigning in 20 cities "Fresh air, my birth right" with people participation. But as far as Delhi is concerned let me tell you two things: First: We know the problem is serious but I am not going into squabbling with Greenpeace or with whose data, because they monitor at one point. They monitor only on one parameter of 2.5 PM (particulate matter). We are, in Delhi, mapping the air pollution at 25 different locations, continuously on 5 parameters and we are now upgrading it to 8 parameters. So we have a composite data.

Q. So what does your data show? Are you saying that Delhi is not polluted? Even according to your data of 8 parameters Delhi is still the most polluted city in the world?

A. No. No. I am saying that is the first thing that you must know comprehensively about what you are doing. What is the status? and status is bad.

Q. Even according to your data ?

A. Yes.

Q: So what is your data saying? Let's understand that. How does Delhi compare with other cities.

A: If 60 is the particulate matter or any level which is acceptable, we are already 2.5 times worse than what it should have actually been.

Q: Because it's not just Delhi, sir. According to WHO data out of 20, 13 of the worst polluted cities in the world are Indian cities.

A: That is why you don't bring WHO and other organisations because one-on-one there are many lacunae in their presentation. Sometimes I think that there is design in such presentations.

Q. Why would there be a design? What is your insinuation, sir?

A. Because if on one parameter on one day you meter something and you reach a conclusion, that is not the way. You must look at air as a whole and we must comprehensively judge it.

Q. So when you say design, are you suggesting that there is a deliberate attempt to show India in poor light?

A. No. I am not saying that. I used the word design because I don't want to take this debate to that level. Because our air is not fresh in cities. We want clean our air, we want to clean our water, we want to have clean energy and we want to increase our urban greens more rapidly. That's our priority. We have to take action and our ministry has already conducted three meetings with the Delhi government. When the first report came or even the earlier reports, on our own scales, which are bad, we gave them many suggestions.

Q. Sir, you have been in power for 8 months. What have as minister you done to fix this problem ?

A. We have already taken it very seriously and as I told you, we have lost 10 valuable years. Nobody addressed this problem the way it should have been handled, and more importantly we have taken it very seriously with all the states and particularly all the city administrations where the problem is real. In Delhi, we had two-three meetings with concerned officials and we had given them the road map of how to deal with it in a short-term period and what are the long-term solutions. The issue here is and that is why I said that I don't want to dispute and I don't want to go into that discussion whether that WHO's findings or Greenpeace findings are correct or not. That's a small thing. We are a polluted city and it's a fact. We have the humility to accept that this the condition. It has not come about in 8 months.

Q: I have here some things that Beijing does, for example. There's data here which says that on some days Beijing is better than Delhi. They actually have something called Pollution Emergency Measures where on certain days they say that people shouldn't go out especially young kids, pregnant women, old people shouldn't be out and if you go out you should be wearing masks. Do you think we have reached a stage where people in Delhi should be wearing masks?

A: I've been in Beijing many times and from what I've seen I don't agree that we are worse than Beijing. Again, I am not disputing the signs. What I am saying is that we also have to take emergency measures. We also have to train the people.

Q. Sir, you are not answering my question, should there be days where in the morning if your data shows the pollution level is way above what is safe that you tell the schools, you tell the children not to go out, you tell parents to get emergency masks, are we reaching that kind of situation sir ?

A. I don't think we are reaching that level where we will ask our people not to move out, but yes there are many things to be done. Particularly those with asthmatic conditions, we can give them alert that please do this, don't do this and more importantly we have to take action. Mask is not a preventive thing but I am going into preventing things, we are now launching a composite air index -- one number, one code, one colour which will indicate at same point at public display. So people will be aware regarding the health of a particular location. It will also be a constant reminder to the people and alert the people. Then we will launch a campaign also where people will be trained in how to combat this. A mask is a small part of it.

Q. Environment Minister, I am asking you whether you believe that time has come for people to consider wearing masks and go out?

A. I don't think so.

Q: Despite the data showing that Delhi is polluted 10 times more than safety norms?

A: That is not true. Our data shows it is three times.

Q: But three times is bad enough, sir.

A: That is what I am saying. That is what I've said. We are facing a real crisis in as many cities and the world is seeing. I am not bothered about who describes me the baddest or worst. We are the worst. We are bad and we have to improve and to that end we are doing technological innovation, we are taking policy decision, and we are taking short-term measures. Arvind Kejriwal has now taken over and I will be calling the relevant ministers and even if the Chief Minister comes, we will call all the Delhi people who are responsible to manage air in Delhi and will definitely go with it.

Q. There are three big decision that helped control air pollution in Delhi. At least in the years gone by. One was CNG, second is metro and third was moving polluting industries out of Delhi Two out of those three were done by courts. So my question is that green activism that we saw from courts, is that essentially our only hope ?

A. No. We will take our own decision, I hope that with our positive actions, courts will not to be required to take those decisions. Because we'll walk that environment path. My announcement today is, that next week only we will call Delhi govt. officials and if chief minister or other ministers come they are welcome.

