the nature of magical reverberations is changing, and changing fast. whither you want to call it the vengeance of Eris, the Black Flame of Set, or supersymetery of ultraculture, the undercurrents of the neo matrix of reality has sent out it's Call and those who are answering are standing out from the crowd.

one of those voices is Demitria Monde Thraam.

i am honored to present rune logix readers to Demitria Monde Thraam, Monde for short. Monde reveals her unique relationship with the force known as Choronzon, who Aleister Crowley humbly referred to as the "mighty devil that inhabiteth the outermost Abyss."



readers versed with Crowleys writings would know Choronzon to be the most powerful force to contend with before one is able to attain Mastery of Self in thelemic influenced occult traditions.

heretically, DMT presents a different picture. she knows Choronzon as a force not to be challenged, insulted, or defeated, but loved, and even, embraced. the Choronzon, 333 current, is a force of dispersion and disruption, of lies, and truths, to large to hold back.



there are well intentioned people out there that consider this kind of thinking as tautamount to spiritual suicide, and readers are forewarned that their prejuidices will be challanged by this interview.



Choronzon is first known to have manifested as such to John Dee (1527-1608) in his workings with Edward Kelley as (I believe first) revealed in Mysteriorum Libri Quinque or, the Five Books of Mystical Exercises of Dr. John Dee . John Dee was consul to Queen Elizabeth of England who made the not insignificant decision to make the American colonys speak English.

without further introduction, i will let you come to your own conclusions, about the life, and work of Demitria Monde Thraam.

> It appears that music, chaos, and technology is very important for you. At what nexus would you say this converged for you personally and creatively?

DMT indeed started the whole thing for me--in conjunction with the first known band to feature the name "Choronzon" in the title of a song: Tangerine Dream. I was listening to this particular album, "Exit" during my first experience with it in 1983. It was taken with someone who I was...well, very "taken with" at the time, thus this experience changed my life and view of reality forever. There is an account of it in the Erowid vaults; it's called "Exit and the Talking Heads". This person loved that band...I came to fall rather deeply for him - it was the sort of love I have given the name angevaste - the love that agitates but also frustrates. Such things are never truly mutual or they either transmute into tikololoma - the love that comforts, but also suffocates or degrades into gnasticasto - the love that destroys but also relieves violent tensions. Further writings on this can be found at the www.irreality.net Plexus, where all is anonymous, but these short essays were by me. I felt eros, agape and philos still were too few words for love; it is too confusing to have so many very different sorts of connexions be called "love"; it suggests there can be more than one operational at any given time.



Such was the case with me then: I was in angevaste with the person I had the Exit experience with--he was an artist and we spent three years in a state of mentor/protege collabouration. He had another woman he loved, in the tikololoma way, and yet another with whom he seemed to be at the other end of angevaste with...its power-dynamic is such that it tends to run in daisy-chains. Two years later I started dating John Ayres...and this became a tikololoma type of love, though it had its fiery moments. Eventually it degenerated into gnasticasto and we were both to blame.



But before that, we were to join together in a media project of his, very Thelema based, called IAO CORE. At this time, I didn't know jake about Choronzon, though the word obviously had significance to me as the title of the song which was part of the experience above. I had assumed it was a place name, or a surname, something I lacked any contextual reference for; the Tangerine Dream piece is instrumental.







I did "sex magick" in the traditional sense with him, in a lysergic mode, and for the very first time, I saw at its peak the Triptrigramme glyph spinning in the centre of my mind--and I knew right away I loved it, whatever it was, it felt alive-- and also, dark, dangerous, but in a death-transcendent way, it both calmed me and excited me, essentially gave me incredible strength, and I knew not why, it was a frisson. I still get it, when communing with CHORONZON. I shall never tire of it, it is at my centre...



I had no idea of the number 333's occult significance. John was later talking to me about the experience we had, and he recoiled when I mentioned the three-triangle glyph and worried even more when he saw that I signed paintings I did with it, and the name Choronzon, which for a short time I used as a sort of artist's handle, around 1985. John knew people in the San Francisco OTO, though he himself was not a member; he had friends like David Jones who advised him to have nothing to do with me, that I would be poison, essentially.



He told me. And I just laughed. I couldn't believe my ears. Then he showed me the Crowley book describing the ZAX ritual with his scribe, the one called Omnia Vincam, and my first thought was, What assholes!





You do not call up a xenodimensional--something from another place, though not precisely another world--and demand it to do things any more than you do that to a person, and expect it to be nice to you. This guy wants to "cross the Abyss"? Exactly how does he hope to do this if hostile to its entity? That was the core of everything I later came to dislike about him, it was all about this weird knighthood in which he is both the beast and slayer of the beast, to be rewarded with the King's Daughter. He was really hung up on schlanging the princess, that one. (Today, he'd be one of those people with a hard on for Jenna Bush...)

Current dead? Perhaps in one cycle or circle of individuals, yes, but it's surely not dead here. This is specifically the 333 Current or Choronzonic current and it is separate from KAOS/BABALON or any of the others which have invoked or involved Chaos. Currents form, I believe, based on specific emotional frequencies and tensions, and there is at the center of this current a lot of agitation, turmoil, ecstasy. It is active here, now. Currents die when the minds they run through, which ride them, fall into complacency, or else circumstances turn various poles to repel and not attract. It is alive here. There is angevaste involved, When it dies here it returns somewhere else.



But CHORONZON is forever and Chaos is the Absolute Alpha-Omega-and-Back-Again of all; it never dies, and is the ONLY thing that never dies. There will ALWAYS be Chaos. To ally with it bears the comfort of the eternal.





It was a very special and challenging work. I was so deeply moved by a piece of writing by a truly remarkable woman from Portugal, Pvra Dalem (of Imbolc, and now Zero Lvx Krieg) and was overjoyed when she gave me permission to orate them with a Choronzon soundtrack.



From this, a few lines:

> It would also appear that societal roles of gender are anathema to you. What are the difference between gay culture, straight culture, and a Chaosist attitude to sexuality?

That is a topic I could go on entirely too long about. It is worthy of its own talk, really.





Gender is very constrictive and it struck me its effect on occult symbolism is potentially limiting - even damaging - to the psyche. Certain forces, for example are called male or female when what is meant is essentially CONVEX/CONCAVE or even CON/DE - the ultimate friction-force in the Universe, Chaos in collision with Control, Control in constricture of Chaos, a love/hate relationship of eternity. But to call either of these by one or the other gender is to tend to push the male into pre-set behaviour patterns in accordance with them - Mars, War, Male. Venus, Love, Female. Smash, Smash, CHORONZON! Scatter the pieces and pick them up. Look into them as bits of broken mirror and see the viragos who are yourselves in formation, and maybe behind you, the faces of the wakening godforms you invoke. All shifting through "male" and "female" no matter what pudenda material reality gave you!





Never take anything - including CHORONZON - too seriously. It will always bite you in the rear when you begin to, and sometimes tickle you when in conniptions of pain, you think it's torture, until it isn't. World, meet CHORONZON. You have never known this one, or any like him. Or her. Or it. Don't take my word for it, he will be known for his own merits and flaws alike, and in such, enlighten us more about our own.

Well, he never made it across, I think... On the other hand, what happened to me? Once I knew what CHORONZON was (capital letters used for clarity, to discern entity from project) all I wanted was to befriend it. I knew it made me feel good, was connected to all sorts of powers, and then it went further than friendship, obviously. This was 20 years ago. I still make love to CHORONZON during high rites, a few times a year. I used to do it all the time but now I have been in another real life relationship now, a tikololoma that has held for a decade - with a very one-of-a-kind individual...a guy who--unbelievably--knows about all this and deals with it: he's even beginning to, I think, let go of fear and feel the current himself. I try not to push him. We have had some interesting sexual adventures that have essentially been triads with the entity. But this conjugal alchemical fusion with CHORONZON is so vital to me, and my connexion to my mate is also vital to me, that this sort of thing needed to be made rare.Occultism is mostly just theatrics. I think we can make anything part and parcel of magery. Ritual itself--at least its outer manifestations and processes-- is almost obsolete; it's all done upstairs and sometimes, with two hands and a computer. That's it. Oh, but a friendly entity sure helps! If you can't find one, dream one up and believe in it, and power fills the shell. Belief is what it's all about. Wands, swords, pentacles, et cetera are completely unnecessary and very quaint images in this century. Their associations can sometimes be used, re-interpreted, integrated into a personal magery experience. But I am very much of the feeling that we exist in our time and space, and should do as befits it, and create our symbols, not merely borrow them; when such are borrowed they need to be re-integrated into others which are not in order to create something new..A single object of power to concentrate upon is helpful. I have a silver triptrigramme pendant made as something different by someone into Norse magery... It turns out this symbol is the same as Odin's Knot or Valknutr, which has many meanings, some definitely dovetailing with what I have come to see as the triptrigramme's meanings, especially the idea of using chaos as a weapon--specifically to "cloud" in confusion and thus cause slowdown of one's enemies. It also represents a sacred commitment to their personal god (in that case, Odin, for me, CHORONZON, and for someone else...well..."disguise d'limit!" There are lots and lots of dormant gods needing awakening right about now. Imagination, meet Reality's fuzzy borders.> What was your inspiration for http://choronzon.org/background .html ? The occult nature of the page gave me a good laugh especially after reading the source html.I think the page you're referring to is actually http://choronzon.org/nwc which is a "wait page" whilst I get this incredibly complex thing onto the web - New World Chaos by Choronzon is a "living album" - one which will grow as a tree and change with time...Soon that page will go somewhere Else entirely, but that source HTML will definitely stay.> Your texts on chaos magic give the current a new twist and original material. How would you gauge the relevance of chaos magic formulas when 1) the chaos current is supposed to be dead, 2) how do post mainstream movements keep the party going?> I have read John Dee's and Aleister Crowleys writings on Choronzon. Who is Choronzon to you, and what effects does Choronzon have on an individuals life?Every individual is going to have their own take on things. Obviously my associations with this name run deep; they will not with others precisely in the same way...But through me CHORONZON does have significant expression. The message is: Embrace Chaos, for it is the only thing that is eternal. Embrace it because it is here, whether we like it or not, sometimes it will be hard on us, it has no judgment, it is only Chaos. CHORONZON is one of thousands godforms rising in opposition to the rogues that have commanded the world into organised religions, feeding people the idea of One God and forming sadly dysfunctional expectations of perfection and comfort from it. The Judeochristian God is psychotic, its adherents fixated on a religion glorifying torture and sacrifice as salvation. CHORONZON has been vilified precisely because he is the true opposition! The God/Satan pairing is nothing but good cop/bad cop on a cosmic scale. The miscreants who draw pentagrams and light black candles and sacrifice their pets earn nothing but disgust from the true "Devil", and this "Devil" is more life-affirming in its Chaos than "God" (in the twin/clone aspects of Yahweh/Allah) and more darkly powerful than their two-bit narc Satan ever could be. (And they know it, too.)> Your path is obviously a unique one with an emphasis of the individual-personality bend. Do you see intelligent goings on in the (supposedly not dead) IOT, Temple of Set, and OTO clusters?Quite honestly I can offer no informed opinion on these matters. I know Peter Carroll is doing some very interesting online courses which I would engage in had I the resources and the time - and his probability theories as related to magery are just as intriguing to me - and as helpful in the success of my own magery, I should add! - as his integration and understanding of Chaos. But as for the groups and lodges...well...This is not a lodge. It is a cluster and growing, but without the formality at all. No leaders, followers, just CHORONZON and the minds touched by him (I call him that because of our xenodimensional love, when he becomes my incubus; more properly CHORONZON is genderless, and at the same time a he and a she--it will depend on who is touched, and how.)We're Now, and Here. Also Nowhere! There is a cluster of intelligence hovering at Irreality and in LiveJournal occult communities which are beginning to catch the current and give their own energies to it, and it welcomes them warmly and confers to them strength; CHORONZON, as you recall, is a master of the Precreate - for this is what this Abyss really is, a moat around a castle in which is not a princess that needs rescuing, but CHORONZON...and Yourself. In whatever form it will take for you. Some have described it as a She and not He; it is Both, All, Neither. But the multiplicity of forms available to a Master of Precreate is nothing short of charming.> The triumph of Chaos, Choronzon, and post structural ideas is evident in all of your writings, and I presume your music as well. However, you don't fit media images of a nihilist. Your web site has a strong appeal to helping victims of Hurricane Katrina and the sad passing of your cat (of which I also had a devastating experience last year>. It would seem for you that without compassion, chaos would be a short march to suicide. Can you elaborate on the scope of love and affection in your world view?On this I have much to say, but it is said best by the track "Mater Mundi", which I shall link for you... mp3 link I hope this works, I'm still putting this all together!

"Hiding behind hate is the escape route for those unable to love. It is part of a process which can and should be averted. Manifesting love, affection--closeness is key to harmony and the only thing which can break all cycles. They become obsolete, beside its immense power."Such is a message these times so sorely need. People build their relationships in accordance with pre-set movie scripts witnessed in countless idiot entertainments, relationships with rote behaviour patterns of dominance and submission, of false strength and fake weakness, of jealousy, envy, all the silly accoutrements that sell short-attention-span drama. CHORONZON told me long ago, in its own way, that it was essential to individual minds to redefine all such things and replace them with "what makes sense and what works" - which will be different for everyone. There is no one path for following on any mass scale - the moment that happened it would all become a mockery, it never shall! In Chaos, there is the seed of order, and without the bonds of love there is not Chaos but entropy - and entropy is not, in my mind, Chaos - it is rather a very steady-state; CHORONZON is Chaos-in-motion. Entropy does not move. Without some order in the Chaos the centre does not hold and Chaos is conquered by Control on a vast scale. Such we see in the tragedy of contemporary American politics, which was a catalyst for this album in a very large way.Helping the hurricane victims was the least we could do. Surely you have read of the truly bizarre coincidence to natural disasters Choronzon albums tend to have? Honestly, having it happen the second time - the last track on the album went down just as Katrina laid down her own track of chaos on unfortunate Louisiana, echoing the 1989 earthquake bizarreness of Zero Divided By Infinity. No telling what the next one will produce. I have a strong intuition it will be earthquake again, next year...CHORONZON's not all sweetness and light: it has connections to what are essentially caretakers of this world, which are what make igneous and meteorological events happen - they are something like giant "pool-sweepers" that periodically move the soil and the air and water...the Earth needs natural disasters as it is alive and these things are its motions as living being, only being regarded as "disasters" since our life ways have put us in their bad graces...and with stupidity of constructure invited them to destroy us, anyway...But a watershed was reached, CHORONZON sayeth, when humanity split the atom and destroyed the ozone. These abuses will not be tolerated. We are living on borrowed time, at the caretakers' graces, which cannot strictly be called such since they loathe us,.at this point....where once we were merely slight irritants. Though in a sense the loathing is automatic - they are something like programs. Living gods that were placed here to move the world...to keep it breathing.CHORONZON's goal is to mutate us into something that can live with the chaos that is this world, and survive. Humanity is not it.> Do you have any performances lined up?P. Emerson Williams ( link ) and myself live on opposite coasts. We met on the net, do all our interaction online. The performance lined up is locked upon target of the World Mind, and is constant.> Is there anything else you would like to comment on?Wilt what would Do You In shall be the Flaw in the Whole.