KingCorwin Profile Joined February 2013 United States 134 Posts #2 great looking map! pathing very limited without destroying rocks, but i like it because that makes the attacking player have to do some work.

The forward third looks crazy hard to defend having three paths of attack to it

And this isnt probably the nicest comment, but i wouldnt use the char marsh tileset again (its just so hard to look at and like) Corwin#12780

Qikz Profile Blog Joined November 2009 United Kingdom 11679 Posts #3 I really like that Tileset. Personally I think this map is really cool! :D FanTaSy's #1 Fan | STPL Caster/Organiser | SKT BEST KT | https://twitch.tv/stpl

Flummie Profile Joined August 2010 Netherlands 414 Posts #4 Looking really good o0 !!



Well done ผมพยายามหาคำตอบอยู่ตลอดเวลา

SiskosGoatee Profile Blog Joined May 2012 Albania 1482 Posts #5 Etcetc, overlord spot back of mineral line ZvZ etcetc. WCS Apartheid cometh, all hail the casual audience, death to merit and hard work.

Gfire Profile Joined March 2011 United States 1699 Posts #6 People are gonna hate the dark tileset.



I don't like the double-high cliff on the edge of the main since it makes it so hard to see the low ground around that mineral line in the lower right.



Dig the layout though. all's fair in love and melodies

SiskosGoatee Profile Blog Joined May 2012 Albania 1482 Posts #7 For all the people who complain about dark tilesets, so many maps have dark tilesets that I think more people actually like them, or at least like making them, than people dislike them. Apart from that, a lush beach like Ohana doesn't really suit the theme of this game as much as a things like a derelict space station or asteroid. WCS Apartheid cometh, all hail the casual audience, death to merit and hard work.

Uvantak Profile Blog Joined June 2011 Uruguay 1380 Posts #8 I'm not sure how this map will play out, because of the flow of the expansions and i can't see a solid place to position the army after taking the third, evything becomes very scattered, but i can tell you that this map is a lovely thing, i just love the Char marsh, and atm im making a map on it.

One thing i have to agree with siskos is about the overlord spot, and in this map that would be easy to do, just add some doodads in that corner of the main that's almost on top of the natural minerals and then block it with pathing paint so no ground units can pass there, and then add some invisible LoS blockers mixed with doodads and there you have your overlord spot!



btw I almost forgot, what's the distance between main bases/main ramps?? that walking path looks really long. @Kantuva | Mapmaker | KTVMaps.wordpress.com | Check my profile to see my TL map threads, and you can search for KTV in the Custom Games section to play them.

Caviar Profile Joined April 2011 70 Posts #9 I love the layout.



I think it could be a little more interesting if instead of the long diagonal rocks blocking off the middle instead you put two smaller maybe 6x6 (or what ever size) rocks on the top and bottom of the Xel Nagarestricting access to it and blocking movement between that area.

Timetwister22 Profile Joined March 2011 United States 538 Posts Last Edited: 2013-04-04 17:59:32 #10



As far as a few questions and comments:

Thanks to those who seem like the map. Now go get some games on it :DAs far as a few questions and comments: On April 04 2013 23:34 SiskosGoatee wrote:

Etcetc, overlord spot back of mineral line ZvZ etcetc.

You can stick your overlord over the main section that is behind the natural mineral line. Creep does not reach that far, thus making it very difficult for queens to reach.



You can stick your overlord over the main section that is behind the natural mineral line. Creep does not reach that far, thus making it very difficult for queens to reach. On April 05 2013 00:06 Gfire wrote:

I don't like the double-high cliff on the edge of the main since it makes it so hard to see the low ground around that mineral line in the lower right.



Dig the layout though.

Yeah, I'm not very fond of this happening either. Here, it's a minimal issue though, and easy to fix if it does become an issue. Would look something like this in game.



Yeah, I'm not very fond of this happening either. Here, it's a minimal issue though, and easy to fix if it does become an issue. Would look something like this in game. + Show Spoiler + On April 05 2013 00:52 Uvantak wrote:

I'm not sure how this map will play out, because of the flow of the expansions and i can't see a solid place to position the army after taking the third, evything becomes very scattered, but i can tell you that this map is a lovely thing, i just love the Char marsh, and atm im making a map on it.

Positioning would probably look something like this in PvZ and TvZ. Same thing without the wall in the non-Zerg matchups:

+ Show Spoiler +



Positioning would probably look something like this in PvZ and TvZ. Same thing without the wall in the non-Zerg matchups: On April 05 2013 00:54 Caviar wrote:

I love the layout.



I think it could be a little more interesting if instead of the long diagonal rocks blocking off the middle instead you put two smaller maybe 6x6 (or what ever size) rocks on the top and bottom of the Xel Nagarestricting access to it and blocking movement between that area.

Thanks! And yes, that is something to think about actually... Thanks! And yes, that is something to think about actually... Former ESV Mapmaker | @Timetwister22

SiskosGoatee Profile Blog Joined May 2012 Albania 1482 Posts #11 On April 05 2013 02:58 Timetwister22 wrote:

Show nested quote +

On April 04 2013 23:34 SiskosGoatee wrote:

Etcetc, overlord spot back of mineral line ZvZ etcetc.

You can stick your overlord over the main section that is behind the natural mineral line. Creep does not reach that far, thus making it very difficult for queens to reach. You can stick your overlord over the main section that is behind the natural mineral line. Creep does not reach that far, thus making it very difficult for queens to reach. WCS Apartheid cometh, all hail the casual audience, death to merit and hard work.

eviltomahawk Profile Blog Joined August 2010 United States 11022 Posts #12 On April 05 2013 00:08 SiskosGoatee wrote:

For all the people who complain about dark tilesets, so many maps have dark tilesets that I think more people actually like them, or at least like making them, than people dislike them. Apart from that, a lush beach like Ohana doesn't really suit the theme of this game as much as a things like a derelict space station or asteroid.

As long as the map doesn't mess with the visual clarity of the game too much, I'm fine. Ohana had great visual clarity at least. Maps with dark lighting and too many particle effects on top of a dark tileset tend to be annoying to spectate, especially on a low-quality stream. As long as the map doesn't mess with the visual clarity of the game too much, I'm fine. Ohana had great visual clarity at least. Maps with dark lighting and too many particle effects on top of a dark tileset tend to be annoying to spectate, especially on a low-quality stream. ㅇㅅㅌㅅ

NewSunshine Profile Joined July 2011 United States 4440 Posts Last Edited: 2013-04-04 21:43:55 #13

Second thought, the map is very tight-looking in a large number of places.

+ Show Spoiler +

A Zerg player will probably not want anything to do with the area in yellow, and so would expand the other way, along the red path, which is fine, since it expands away from your opponent's preferred line of army movement. A problem with this though is that the expansion is quite far away in this case. Also, a Protoss in general could set up pylons in the yellow area, utilizing the chokes but nullifying the rush distances. The red path itself is generally the path you'll want to take to attack, so I think moving the rocks from the first ramp onto the second(along the path) could be cool, so that taking the nearby detour path through the 3 o'clock base would be desirable until the rocks are down, but you don't have to knock down rocks to move out of your base.



Overall, I think a lot of the nuances of this map are cool though. I like how the center itself is set up, where you don't want to move an army through it, you only want the watchtower, which itself watches over the otherwise even pathing. However, I think a lot of these elements could work beautifully with a shorter rush distance, and maybe some opening up as well. The way it is now, I could see a P giving Z hell in several different places.



With the way these rocks are set up, shorter distances between players would be the first thing I'd look at. I could be full of crap though, since nothing can replace actual games. This is just my cursory analysis. First thought, the rush distances look absolutely enormous.Second thought, the map is very tight-looking in a large number of places.A Zerg player will probably not want anything to do with the area in yellow, and so would expand the other way, along the red path, which is fine, since it expands away from your opponent's preferred line of army movement. A problem with this though is that the expansion is quite far away in this case. Also, a Protoss in general could set up pylons in the yellow area, utilizing the chokes but nullifying the rush distances. The red path itself is generally the path you'll want to take to attack, so I think moving the rocks from the first ramp onto the second(along the path) could be cool, so that taking the nearby detour path through the 3 o'clock base would be desirable until the rocks are down, but you don't have to knock down rocks to move out of your base.Overall, I think a lot of the nuances of this map are cool though. I like how the center itself is set up, where you don't want to move an army through it, you only want the watchtower, which itself watches over the otherwise even pathing. However, I think a lot of these elements could work beautifully with a shorter rush distance, and maybe some opening up as well. The way it is now, I could see a P giving Z hell in several different places.With the way these rocks are set up, shorter distances between players would be the first thing I'd look at. I could be full of crap though, since nothing can replace actual games. This is just my cursory analysis. "If you find yourself feeling lost, take pride in the accuracy of your feelings." - Night Vale

Munk200 Profile Joined November 2011 United States 52 Posts #14 With the Ovie spot behind the nat. Just remove the main base part of it there, make it an air space. Will allow for ovies to sit there without being killed. It also makes the main slightly smaller so its not completely impossible for zerg to scout the tech of their opponent. You cant choose what happens to you, you can only chose how to react.

SiskosGoatee Profile Blog Joined May 2012 Albania 1482 Posts #15 Yeah, would be a good change, I'm not sure what the purpose of that area is apart from hiding tech from scans, it allows you to park tanks and defend your natural more easily I guess. WCS Apartheid cometh, all hail the casual audience, death to merit and hard work.

FlyingBeer Profile Blog Joined June 2012 United States 262 Posts #16 I love this map.



I'm of the opinion that long rush distances are necessary when you have a backdoor entrance to the natural.



How long would it take for a worker to scout the entirety of the main for any funny business like a cannon rush or proxy rax? It seems your mains are a little too big.



I think your biggest problem is the third. I'd suggest getting rid of the big blocker dividing the two primary attack points to the third and just slightly collapse the edges to create one big attack path into the third. That would create two points of attack for a player on 3 bases, similar to daybreak, except with those rocks to add a potential third attack path, which seems like it would be quite balanced.



You have four primary attack paths in the middle, but they're all identically sized at all their points, so there's no reason for a player to favor one attack path over another, making the outer two completely useless until a player takes a center base.

Laserist Profile Joined September 2011 Turkey 1377 Posts #17 I am not a map expert but from a player's perspective, layout is too dark to play many games on it. It affects your mood and psychology definitely. “Are you with the Cartel? Because you’re definitely an Angel.”

Munk200 Profile Joined November 2011 United States 52 Posts #18 For the people concerned with the main size, the picture is deceiving. The scale on the map is really nice. I personally like the way the 3rd is set up with the 2 slightly smaller chokes rather than 1 slightly larger choke. Makes for a more interesting game play and forces people to split their army's up.



You should try playing the map before making judgment. You cant choose what happens to you, you can only chose how to react.

SiskosGoatee Profile Blog Joined May 2012 Albania 1482 Posts #19 On April 05 2013 18:13 Laserist wrote:

I am not a map expert but from a player's perspective, layout is too dark to play many games on it. It affects your mood and psychology definitely. People get depressed from lack of bright colours? Sunlight okay, but that's to do with vitamin D. You don't get that from a screen.

People get depressed from lack of bright colours? Sunlight okay, but that's to do with vitamin D. You don't get that from a screen. WCS Apartheid cometh, all hail the casual audience, death to merit and hard work.

ScorpSCII Profile Joined April 2012 Denmark 499 Posts #20

Although an obvious spelling mistake, it may be worth fixing. On April 04 2013 16:58 Timetwister22 wrote:

Concpet

Mapmaker | Author of Atlas, Rao Mesa & Paralda

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