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... what are founder Erik Prince is the personification of the hidden hand in America's international war on terror ... is company of help from on America's covert drawn straight campaign of Pakistan ... secretly trained Cahit teams collected two billion dollars working for U S government has the most trusted private security ... in ... an interview at a Virginia state I ask them about his regrets and working with the U S government ... his work with this EIA ... and the lessons he's learned lead among the most controversial defense contractors of America has ... in the book and the beginning you talk ... you say the one job he loves most was ripped away by the crease acts of professional negligence the CIA ... yes ... what he talking about ... I will say is that when someone volunteers ... to serve ... the Santa come to agreement ... and that's both ways ... but when you get briefed by name ... two congressional committee ... not quite as having ... taken to give in and out certain him ... when your belief in true name ... to a bunch of leaking ... members of Congress ... and within hours of the briefing incurring ... be getting calls from reporters ... about some ... program was reported by a member of the outlets about ... now a potential fine expenditure program ... that violates the trust ... and that's way over the line and that's me that's the worst in ... the gallery plainly ... so for the leftists green ... holy hell about that outing ... we're still happening ... I'm you know that's what ... you want to putting an ok the national draft ... and a ... smoothie for some so much appreciates with a tractor ... he ... was briefed by naming violated those are ... that that sacred and and legal trust ... director and an oh ... absolutely ... did you ever get a chance to confront him about the I did recently ... unapologetic ... his unapologetic now ... to just one specifically about this I did ... and ... what was this response ... he said well we are taking what Gottfried ... I was about to become ... if you could do it all over again he think ... he would not start flock water ... I think ill start was water may be limited to two servings so some very specific units ... and then try to serve ... in the larger ... more bureaucratic organizations like the State Department ... there are more prone to the ... political pitfalls that we encounter ... he think that was ... the biggest mistake you made Mr. stay absolutely ... to ... what was it about working with state that ... it worked so portly arm ... the disconnect between what to feel needed ... and what Washington dictated ... even now even down to little things that of a book with the ... camera it's been a week ... for DOD ... the contract owners to running ... we had cameras are vehicles ... to move in the same kind of ... he said she said ... this can act ... like we encountered Mr. square ... aam ... yes they are Blair's we at State Department ... lawyers came back and said no you can't the camera new vehicles and so ... I can feel with women ok with it but ... some bureaucrat where back in Washington said no and now it's ... it's tough to operation ... especially difficult leaders places ... peacock and a book about how states have dictated everything from wardrobe and classes in everything ... even down haircuts ... so you know it's ... it's too bad ... it's too bad state didn't stick by us ... aam ... because I can tell you that we've been doing security men gauzy ... that would happen ... in the four Americans live ... but that can attack and having done ... almost a hundred thousand movements in difficult areas over period ... nine years in Iraq and Afghanistan ... I can say was pretty high assurance that would happen to us ... you think if if Blackwater down there Christine Benz the lack of a tool ... full stop ... but the interesting thing I think about the evolution of black wire ... did you talk about in the book and hands and Max talks ... about ending ... the afterward ... what's that ... it was this evolution from a training company to too much more ... than I think the block water during these years became emblematic of this policy of ... putting distance between the government and the andthe things it wants D during the war on terror ... no I don't know it was the plausible deniability that go after the show the gap filling her ... the main reason diplomatic security ... there was such an important because ... government forces could be brought us to quickly enough to do that ... the military ... wouldn't do it and we're tied down ... four or five times as many people doing action ... she needed the temp agency ... ten things you see that would ... dare to do ... very difficult and are saying what the government of reducing the business model works ... if you need a carry capability for a few years ... if you know you need it the next twenty years ... with the Mr. government taxes due ... but ... for that temper filling the gap ... for whether it's time ... special applications of the intelligence community's assessments that they can do it ... it's ... it's the time ... it's tougher than what the US ... Kohl's pieces together then on the door ... for private business ... can do ... going back to the ... field ... leadership versus Washington bureaucracy ... when we work for dingy old ... are we get to take it that that and how the mission was done in a place like Baghdad we use a ... the up armored taxi from a vitamin to Lincoln Continental us ... that we ... believe repainted with drab lousy pain beat them up with the curtains in the one the windows ... removed angel people out of those we never had one firefight ... not one ... that sells a motion that ... Fiji can kill which you can see ... but when Washington dictates ... you will between two points ... in a suburban with slices sirens on the same route everyday ... while ... somewhat remarkable for the enemy in the coming years away ... from your perspective some of the aggressive tactics and and things like nice were Square were sort of driven by the deed byproduct of ... State Department will absolutely ... four percent from peak is in our ... other missions that we get to control ... the same kind of people are people doing it ... no fire fights ... no problem ... the traffic accidents no nothing ... but again you know when you when the mission is ... no dead diplomats ... the forty one Blackwater guards killed ... in the course of all that stuff so we're you know in ... in in you look back and are on ... the ... encounters an escalation of force shooting I needed to be logged in recorded by the state are investigated ... he cannot to less than one half one percent of all those missions result in the country ... so ... there are some important events become an innocent life is ... taken or are injured ... the tragedy ... one of our guys were well ... Q I'd talk a little but about the drums and ... and it's the value ... and ... the skies operations effective camera valuable for the war and terror ... it's another tool tool box ... drones are ... but ... I think you have to be careful that they do come with a loud clatter of damage ... and I think iam ... you know ... in Vietnam the might of ... might've bought up to the car with a five hundred pound bomb ... though he killed five other villagers and how ... he made five other enemies ... and down ... more landings ... with a blood feud go on for decades ... so I think that's the ... the bitter harvest of the drone program that we might be feeling ... aam for decades to come ... what would you like the legacy of ... Blackwater to be ... you know like I cover that term ... in one to chapters to talk about love the rescue today ... and I know to to my proudest moment after spoken ... uses peek at the I kept the ... gusher colors a work of the armed forces ... to know that that that the National Defense University ... and there's a curly came up to me afterwards and said I want to know that time his comeback from a command Baghdad ... he said ... all the guys has people ... at the top of the Dutch words with black or call signs of frequencies ... have them there because they knew that if it was bad ... black or guys to come ... the station ... with the way ... helps uses ... the common that was rich and they got ... for me ... take orders ... made by ... that time ... now there's an American can help out ... the good guys ... and now and move to the sound of the guns of the disaster whatever that might be help ... you get it done ... that's the way you see the people that we help them feel they know that legacy is ... the forty percent or so America that down ... we continue by a quarter ... that's fine on the really win them over you and I really don't care ... the ego because ... what is to consider synonymous with Tibet ... the secret war ... the content it it's ... it's much more wind and in a very misunderstood people read the book ... aam you know this region there's ... the hands of pages of notes ... is a very well documented book is not just my opinion it's ... what the facts are ... to read the book and I'm in it themselves ... but I appreciate Eastman now to talk with us ... I think it's the ... it's good to get you coming out ... in a few such a mysterious figure to a lot of people ... no warrants ... that turbulence ...