Washington (CNN) On Wednesday, MSNBC's Katy Tur asked Kris Kobach a very simple question: Did Hillary Clinton win the popular vote by 3 to 5 million votes because of voter fraud?

"We will probably never know the answer to that question," said Kobach, who, not for nothing, is running President Trump's Commission on Election Integrity. "Because even if you could prove that a certain number of votes were cast by ineligible voters, for example, you wouldn't know how they voted."

Um, WHAT?

We do, in fact, know the answer to that question.

And, here it is: Hillary Clinton won the popular vote over Donald Trump by 2,864,974 votes. She received 65,844,610 votes nationwide. He received 62,979,636. Those results have been certified in each of the 50 states and the District of Columbia. (The Cook Political Report's David Wasserman has a state-by-state popular vote count here .)

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