A Slut's Manifesta

View: Recent Entries. View: Archive. View: Friends. View: Profile. April 14th, 2014 Security: Subject: Yes, 24/7 Time: 01:57 pm Anyone who has fucked me or played with me has heard me say "yes" a lot. I say "yes do that" and "yes that's fucking great" and "yes please" and "holy fuck yes." Sometimes I just say "yes yes yes yes yes."



I think consent is hot. No, I think consent is kinky.



To name and own your desires, to agree to do something you want to do, to say yes is brave and adult and sexy. I also think it's a good habit for women to get into. I was socialized not to acknowledge my desires. I suspect most women born around the time I did had a similar experience.



I remember the stupid pas de deux we were supposed to engage in back in high school, the girl setting boundaries and the boy testing them. And it was clear to all of us that after awhile, us girls would adjust our boundaries, open more territory to the boy. Obviously we did. We wanted sex just as much, but we weren't supposed to admit it. So we oscillated between yes and no, and a world of confusion ensued.



I'm not saying that when women say no, they really mean yes. I am saying that it's harder to say yes when you're a girl. If you say yes, you are a slut. Back then, I didn't want to be a slut.



Now, I say yes a lot. When I say no, I mean it. No is my safe word. I don't pretend not to want what I want anymore.



It's so fucking great to own my desires, to ask for what I want, to decline what I don't want. I think every women should try it out. I guess men should as well, but I just don't think it's going to be such a radical leap for them.



I have never been a naughty schoolgirl, or a French maid, or a hooker, or whatever, and yet I have been flogged so hard that I find injured muscles the next day. I have gone home with blood blisters on my sides and thighs and breasts. I have enjoyed welts up and down my back. But during all that time, I'm never been anything other than myself, agreeing wholeheartedly to everything I'm receiving. Asking for it even.



That's why I don't really get 24/7. I get wanting to please someone. I get wanting to have structure. I get being rewarded for good behavior. I get giving up control because I get radical trust. What I don't get is denying yourself the chance to say yes as often as you can.



The only thing I want to do 24/7 is consent to more. comments: Leave a comment



4min33sec Link: (Link) Time: 2010-07-23 06:30 pm (UTC) But 24/7 doesn't have to involve consenting once and being done with it forever after...



In a 24/7 relationship, you have 1,440 minutes a day, 10,080 minutes a week, and in each and every one of those minutes, you get to say "yes;" and that goes for both sides, for saying "yes" to submission, and for saying "yes" to accepting that submission.



Some people need help saying "yes," need permission, need to be told "if you can't say 'yes' honestly, then I will take that as a 'no,'" and to have that enforced so that they can relax, can experience enough freedom from everything else in the world to decide if they can say "yes" or if they need to say "no."



Some people don't need that help.



Some people need to provide that help to those who need it. (Reply) (Thread)



angryjanedoe Link: (Link) Time: 2010-07-23 06:40 pm (UTC) That's fine with me, but it's not for me.



And I can't lie: it makes me squick. The only thing a person in 24/7 (dom/sub, I mean) can do is say "no," with the understanding that if they do, the whole relationship is over. If you agree to submit to another person all the time, then 24/7 doesn't get reduced down to minutes during which a person can consent. They already did and -- unless they step outside of the situation (often by leaving the relationship) -- they cannot renegotiate.



Love, relationships, partnerships -- for me, at least -- should not be an all-or-nothing deal.



What I'm really saying, however, is that people should learn to get good at saying yes (and saying no). They shouldn't hope that someone comes along and help them "relax" and feel "freedom." Freedom is owning and satisfying your desires, even the desire to be topped. (Reply) (Parent) (Thread)



4min33sec Link: (Link) Time: 2010-07-23 06:56 pm (UTC) May I ask a few questions for clarification? I just don't want to cross squick boundaries if I can avoid it... (Reply) (Parent) (Thread)



angryjanedoe Link: (Link) Time: 2010-07-23 06:57 pm (UTC) go ahead, although I'm not promising answers.



(Oh, and please don't ask questions in order to try to get me to change my mind. What I think/want really doesn't matter that much in this context) (Reply) (Parent) (Thread)



4min33sec Link: (Link) Time: 2010-07-23 07:23 pm (UTC) I don't expect you to change your mind about 24/7 D/s because of a question on a livejournal post; I also don't think that you're going to pull any punches when disagreeing with me, and honest disagreement is worth more than its weight in gold.



Anyway, my questions: What if the desire that someone needs to own and satisfy is a desire to be owned? Do you think that this is even possible? If it is possible, would it derive from an unhealthy source, I guess, in your opinion? In that case, would it be something that would be better left unsatisfied, or that would be better worked through with a goal of eventually eliminating it? (Reply) (Parent) (Thread)



angryjanedoe Link: (Link) Time: 2010-07-23 08:28 pm (UTC) I'll have to think these questions through. They raise the pesky issue of false consciousness.



Until then, maybe other people who read these questions might like to weigh in with their opinions. I only ask that there are no fetlife style snarkfests here. (Reply) (Parent) (Thread)



nakedlena Link: (Link) Time: 2010-07-24 10:13 am (UTC) I will weigh in with my opinion, as I seem to have enough of them. lol.



A desire to be owned, hey. I think it's possible, I think likely a lot of people feel that. I would wonder what emotions "being owned" gave you (assuming it's you). I guess I would be of the mindset that there are feelings to be worked out and that once worked out you could get the result, or the feeling that it gave you, without the need to be owned. Sort of like my friend who has bascially a sexual OCD type of addiction. It's a real addiction that he has, but I think it's a manifestation of his anxiety. It somehow quells his need for acceptance and for feeling in control and it lessens his anxiety, or at least distracts from his daily anxiety.



His anxiety is real, and yet I thnk if there is a way for him to feel more in control without the obsessive thoughts about sex that he would be just as happy, if not more. (Reply) (Parent) (Thread)



4min33sec Link: (Link) Time: 2010-07-24 11:07 am (UTC) 24/7 D/s relationships are entirely about sex in the same way that vanilla relationships are entirely about sex; that is, some of them are, some of them aren't, and to some of them, sex is irrelevant. OCD doesn't map to the phenomenon. (Reply) (Parent) (Thread)



nakedlena Link: (Link) Time: 2010-07-24 08:22 pm (UTC) You asked for my opinion! ;-) That's all I got! (Reply) (Parent) (Thread)



4min33sec Link: (Link) Time: 2010-07-25 02:21 pm (UTC) Indeed. The mental illness comparison is not so helpful, though; I have already had to do quite a bit of work, and have quite a bit more ahead of me, retraining my sub specifically to not question or feel bad about her mental health when it comes to her desires. Just fyi. (Reply) (Parent) (Thread)



nakedlena Link: (Link) Time: 2010-07-25 11:42 pm (UTC) No, it's not about feeling bad, I'd agree. Shame breeds shame breeds shame. Shame is not the answer. However, you did ask if it can derive from an unhealthy source, and my personal opinion is that it can, in short.



I know lots of people into sexual stuff that does derive from an unhealthy source, not just those with ocd, but ya, it's not uncommon. Doesn't mean you have to shame it, and it doesn't really matter what your or I think, but for that person it may be something to look into... (Reply) (Parent) (Thread)



4min33sec Link: (Link) Time: 2010-07-26 05:53 am (UTC) I phrased that question badly, and thank you for pointing it out. What I meant was more along the lines of "can it only derive from an unhealthy source," or "what would have to be going on for it to be healthy rather than unhealthy."



Sorry about that... (Reply) (Parent) (Thread)



nakedlena Link: (Link) Time: 2010-07-26 04:54 pm (UTC) Yes, that is a good question... (Reply) (Parent) (Thread)



4min33sec Link: (Link) Time: 2010-07-24 11:17 am (UTC) This book describes what I'm getting at a little better: that D/s is a drive, closely analogous to the sex drive but not exactly equal to it, and some of the consequences of that. (Reply) (Parent) (Thread)



tsgeisel Link: (Link) Time: 2010-07-23 07:05 pm (UTC) I'm with you - there's nothing sexier than consent. (Reply) (Thread)



nakedlena Link: (Link) Time: 2010-07-24 10:05 am (UTC) Funny, I have found saying no to be my own personal power. Maybe it's because I voluntered in a feminist agency when I was still a teen, where I was surrounded by very open conversations and values around sex. Lesbians, gay men, feminist women surrounded me and my own exploration soon followed.



When I was hurt by a man, I found out for the first time that because my "no" was not heard, I did not really know how to say no.



So I went from a sexually liberated and happy women, to someone with depression and anxiety who was sleeping around when it felt so wrong inside. I was having sex, for the first time, without feeling good about myself. Something was wrong, but I couldn't say no and I didn't know why.. Now I know it's because my boundaries were so fully trampled, but at the time it was all confusion.



Even now, three weeks ago I found myself doing the same thing: saying yes to sex even though I didn't really like him. Out of loneliness.



Saying no has been my biggest growth. But that's me. I personally think in this world women are told to say yes to sex over and over, if not publically, at least privately. But I kinda get what you are saying. We are somehow taught to say no and yes at the same time, I suppose depending on someone else's desires.. (Reply) (Thread)



cos Link: (Link) Time: 2010-07-28 01:15 am (UTC) Reading the other comments now, just got to this one, and I think maybe the second half of my comment could've been a reply to yours. (Reply) (Parent) (Thread)



aiffe Link: (Link) Time: 2010-07-24 07:25 pm (UTC) It's interesting that your most recent post is about the relationship readers have with the text, rather than the intent, because I'm not sure I understood this.



At first I thought you were talking about how some people think that because they're dating or married to someone, they can fuck them whenever they feel like it. But I wasn't sure, so I googled. Apparently you were talking about 24/7 D/s relationships?



If it was D/s relationships, my first thought was, "Well, I'm not sure I agree," because it seemed to me that consent was something that could be withdrawn at any time, without leaving the relationship. (And from my googling, apparently it's the subs who often push for this kind of relationship? This would mesh with my personal experience as well. The subs always seem to top from the bottom.) But then I realized I didn't actually have any experience with the reality of it, and maybe that's very different from the polished essays Google found me.



Even in non-D/s relationships, there are moments like that. Where you can say no, if you really want to, but you're going to lose something. Maybe a lover, maybe a lifestyle, maybe a place to live, maybe stability for your children. So if D/s couples are doing that, it feels more to me that they're making the same mistakes vanilla people make, and not adhering to the rallying cry of "safe, sane, and consensual," rather than the flaw being in the D/s ideology itself.



...in other words, I think it's good in theory, but you may be completely right about the reality. (Reply) (Thread)



cos Subject: no and yes are both fraught Link: (Link) Time: 2010-07-28 01:09 am (UTC) Years ago, I was in bed with a girl who had hit on me at a party. We'd gotten together once, I think, and then ended up in bed the second time, so I didn't know her all that well. We were making out and then a bit more and a bit more, not sex but deliciously fun, when out of the blue she said "okay, I'm done, stop" so I stopped, prepared to switch to cuddling and talking. She just looked at me shocked. "What, that's it? You're just going to stop? You don't want more?" (paraphrased)



I'd heard of the concept of saying no while meaning yes, but this particular incident sticks in my memory because it taught me - or at least, really brought home - a lot more. It made it obvious that this girl had an expectation that no, in certain situations, ought to be treated as not really no, ought to at least be resisted and argued with; that a guy who was actually into her would never just stop, that taking no at face value was strange behavior. This, even with someone new, who had no sexual experience with her. And this expectation must've come from somewhere - and I knew she'd had a number of partners before, because she'd talked about it.



Separately, I was learning something else about yes, no, and women. Although I can't point to a single key incident that brought it home, I was figuring out that sometimes women (maybe men too, but I don't have experience with them) say yes when they really feel "maybe" or "I'm not sure" or even outright "no". Unless I know her well, I can't trust that yes. I've learned how to probe, to ask a few questions, to get a sense of how yes that yes is, but it sucks. Sexism is a context nobody can individually break out of, we're all swimming in it. Trusting someone's yes is a form of respect, and I want to respect the girl in my bed, and it sucks when I can't fully do that.



However, there's one turning point that makes that trust possible: The first time she says "no" to me, to something I ask for that she knows I want. Once she's said no, easily and comfortably, then I know that she can do that, and therefore when she says yes I can trust it. So one thing I do is ask for what I want early, looking for that first no, and when I get it, thank her for it and tell her what it means to me - tell her that I really want my partner to say no or maybe or not now when that's what she feels, that it makes me happier. Because then I can let go a little more, feel freer with her. (Reply) (Thread)



nakedlena Subject: Re: no and yes are both fraught Link: (Link) Time: 2010-07-28 02:25 am (UTC) sorry, i don't know if i replied in the right place.. see below (Reply) (Parent) (Thread)



tiltedsideways Subject: Re: no and yes are both fraught Link: (Link) Time: 2010-09-27 01:08 am (UTC) I'm a middle-aged woman with a pretty extensive sexual history, yet it's only in the last year that I've realized that, for a lot of (or most?) men, "no" doesn't really mean "no." "No," if said politely or with a smile, means "keep trying and maybe she'll let you." Apparently, for "no" to actually mean "no," it must be accompanied by a slap in the face or a kick in the balls. I don't know... I haven't actually tried either of these methods.



It baffles me that it took me years to learn this. Perhaps, when I was younger, I rarely said "no"!



But recently I've had two disturbing instances of men pushing beyond my boundaries. I told them politely "no," because I didn't want to sound bitchy, ruin the mood, or put an end to the date. I just wanted them to stop at a certain point, but, because I said it nicely, they didn't believe I meant it. Obviously, I never went out with either of them again.



But it's left me wondering: how do you say "no" so that someone will listen? (Reply) (Parent) (Thread)



angryjanedoe Subject: Re: no and yes are both fraught Link: (Link) Time: 2010-09-28 01:45 am (UTC) This is an excellent question. I tend to use body language to back up my "no," but recently, I too found myself having to reiterate my boundaries over and over. I felt like a freaking teenager, drawing little lines and saying, "not beyond this point."



I remember that in the 1980s, there was a rap with the chorus, "no means no motherfucker." Maybe that chorus on a loop? (Reply) (Parent) (Thread)



tiltedsideways Subject: Re: no and yes are both fraught Link: (Link) Time: 2010-09-28 02:13 am (UTC) Perhaps I should put it on my cell phone so I can play it wherever and whenever I need it!



The thing is, if either of these guys had just let up, they would have gotten to go out with me again, and they might have realized that my "no," only meant "not tonight!" I was interested in sleeping with both of them, but just not as soon as they wanted to.



Sadly, I had a long talk about this with my (male) roommate tonight, and, although I think he's a generally good guy, he completely confirmed what's seeming to be a common attitude among men: he told me that a "no" just means that he has to work harder to persuade a woman to say, "yes." And he said he's usually successful.



I asked him if pushing for sex is really worth alienating a women completely. He said most men don't think that far ahead.



*sigh* (Reply) (Parent) (Thread)



angryjanedoe Subject: Re: no and yes are both fraught Link: (Link) Time: 2010-09-28 02:17 am (UTC) "The thing is, if either of these guys had just let up, they would have gotten to go out with me again, and they might have realized that my "no," only meant "not tonight!" I was interested in sleeping with both of them, but just not as soon as they wanted to"



I think we should print this on little cards and hand them to every man we see. (Reply) (Parent) (Thread)



nakedlena Link: (Link) Time: 2010-07-28 02:24 am (UTC) Yeah, yeah. Totally.



I used to be extremely healthy in my sexuality and then wham abuse happened and I found myself f**king with absolutely no idea why. It's the same when u see prostitutes, some stats say that over 95% were sexually abused as a child.



Now, as I heal, I find men that don't assume to be so incredibly sexy. They look at me, wondering if I'll say yes and it's in their eyes where they really won't go ahead if I don't want to... that puppy dog look and it's more sexy than anything else. Because I have choice.



But honestly, I screwed a ton of men who couldn't care less if I was spreading for all the wrong reasons. NOt only did they not notice, they had no concept of why or how someone could be having sex and not really wanting sex, but intimacy instead.



(Reply) (Thread)



cos Link: (Link) Time: 2010-07-28 02:47 am (UTC) Ahh, thanks for the other comment, or I'd have missed this one.



I think this is something men need to be taught, that we (collectively) don't teach. It's not something I understood when I first started having sex, or for years after, and although thinking back on those years I don't think I had sex with anyone who didn't want it, I don't know if I knew enough to have avoided it if such a situation had come up - the kind where she seems to want it, on the surface. Now I know that even if she initiates sex it doesn't necessarily mean she wants it - if I don't know her well, I have to probe and find out. That would've seemed so counter-intuitive to me at 20, I think.



Here's one great rule of thumb that can serve to guide people to learning the right sexual negotiation strategy: Instead of thinking about whether you and your potential new partner want to have sex right now, think about whether you and he/she will still want to seek out each others' company in the future; whether, when asked by friends, you'll both say positive things about each other; whether you think this person will feel good about you. Of course you may not know the answers to these questions, and you may make mistakes, but if these are the questions you have in mind at the time of decision, you are more likely to ask the right questions or seek the right decision for both of you, I think.



So, this is something I post & comment about sometimes, and talk about when discussing sex with friends, and mention to teens seeking advice when the opportunity comes up, and I hope more people repeat it. (Reply) (Parent) (Thread)



nakedlena Link: (Link) Time: 2010-07-28 03:16 am (UTC) Yeah, I hope so too.



And yes, i'd agree that most assume that if she initiates sex then it must be sex that she really wants.



(Reply) (Parent) (Thread)

A Slut's Manifesta

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