iChau Profile Joined December 2010 United States 1209 Posts #2 Oh, nice. This is very helpful. us.battle.net/sc2/en/profile/1688911/1/SaniShahin/ | http://teamenvy.net/

Vulcant Profile Joined December 2010 United States 53 Posts #3 Thanks, needed a couple BOs. Zerg player here. Don't tell people how to do things, tell them what to do and let them surprise you with their results. -George S. Patton

dzieciol001 Profile Joined September 2010 Poland 16 Posts #4 Update with BO and it will be super effective !

wo1fwood Profile Blog Joined December 2010 3347 Posts #5 On March 18 2011 22:12 dzieciol001 wrote:

Update with BO and it will be super effective ! I will not add the order here, but was thinking of linking the Liquipedia page, or TL page where appropriate. I just have to figure out a concise way of doing that. I will not add the order here, but was thinking of linking the Liquipedia page, or TL page where appropriate. I just have to figure out a concise way of doing that. Administrator needs a quote

Turgid Profile Blog Joined September 2010 United States 1623 Posts Last Edited: 2011-03-18 17:27:01 #6 I always assumed I was doing the standard 1 gas 4WG rush but I have 6 stalkers, a zealot, and my warpgates are finished warping in at like 5:45-5:50. I was looking at some GSL PVP VODs and I only seem to be 3-4 seconds off, not 20+ like your list here implies. Where can I find the build order for this apparently much faster rush? (╬ ಠ益ಠ)

wo1fwood Profile Blog Joined December 2010 3347 Posts Last Edited: 2011-03-18 23:30:36 #7 On March 19 2011 02:26 Turgid wrote:

I always assumed I was doing the standard 1 gas 4WG rush but I have 6 stalkers, a zealot, and my warpgates are finished warping in at like 5:45-5:50. I was looking at some GSL PVP VODs and I only seem to be 3-4 seconds off, not 20+ like your list here implies. Where can I find the build order for this apparently much faster rush? Bothers me when I do that. I re-examined the positions, and the 6 stalker version is inherently better, and completes at 5:44. Bothers me when I do that. I re-examined the positions, and the 6 stalker version is inherently better, and completes at 5:44. Administrator needs a quote

gavinashun Profile Joined October 2010 101 Posts #8 I think there are at least 2 big threads on this topic - maybe we should merge them?

wo1fwood Profile Blog Joined December 2010 3347 Posts Last Edited: 2011-03-18 22:36:27 #9 On March 19 2011 05:25 gavinashun wrote:

I think there are at least 2 big threads on this topic - maybe we should merge them? I only know of one other thread that is close to this one. If it is the one I'm thinking of, I did take a bit of the information from there. I only know of one other thread that is close to this one. If it is the one I'm thinking of, I did take a bit of the information from there. Administrator needs a quote

wo1fwood Profile Blog Joined December 2010 3347 Posts #10 OP has been updated with links to relevant Liquipedia pages! Administrator needs a quote

gavinashun Profile Joined October 2010 101 Posts #11 On March 19 2011 06:23 wo1fwood wrote:

Show nested quote +

On March 19 2011 05:25 gavinashun wrote:

I think there are at least 2 big threads on this topic - maybe we should merge them? I only know of one other thread that is close to this one. If it is the one I'm thinking of, I did take a bit of the information from there.



Cool cool - thanks for putting together! Cool cool - thanks for putting together!

Najda Profile Joined June 2010 United States 3431 Posts Last Edited: 2011-03-19 04:41:53 #12



1 Rax FE: CC @ ~3:50 (Tested this 5 times and got between 3:48 and 3:53 every time)

Replay:



2 Rax FE: CC @ 4:20-4:25 and 10 Marines @ 5:10-5:15

Replay



2 Rax FE vs P: 3 Marines 2 Marauders 1 Reaper and CC @ 5:15 (Followed the build on Liquipedia which gets CC later than 1 Marine and 1 Reaper)

Replay A good thing to add would be some replay verification of the build order timings. I'd be happy to help with some of these and post the times I got. I'll start with some of the Terran ones and just post replays of me doing it vs a computer, and quitting after I reach the checkpoint.1 Rax FE: CC @ ~3:50 (Tested this 5 times and got between 3:48 and 3:53 every time)Replay: http://drop.sc/1839 (3:48 in this replay)2 Rax FE: CC @ 4:20-4:25 and 10 Marines @ 5:10-5:15Replay http://drop.sc/1841 (4:24 CC 5:13 Marines)2 Rax FE vs P: 3 Marines 2 Marauders 1 Reaper and CC @ 5:15 (Followed the build on Liquipedia which gets CC later than 1 Marine and 1 Reaper)Replay http://drop.sc/1842 (CC @ 5:10 3 Rine 2 Marauder 1 Reaper @ 5:14)

caracarn Profile Joined January 2011 Sweden 141 Posts Last Edited: 2011-03-19 02:25:03 #13 This is a really helpful thing to have. But all this is not when the things are in your base. You can almost say that everything is 40 seconds later then this timings. Jinro Whaiting!

Najda Profile Joined June 2010 United States 3431 Posts #14 On March 19 2011 11:24 caracarn wrote:

This is a really helpful thing to have. But all this is not when the things are in your base. You can almost say that everything is 40 seconds later then this timings.



I'm pretty sure the timings are just for practice validation to make sure you're doing it as efficiently as you should be. Or at least that's what I would use them for. I'm pretty sure the timings are just for practice validation to make sure you're doing it as efficiently as you should be. Or at least that's what I would use them for.

H0bgawblin Profile Joined August 2010 United States 109 Posts #15 Can we have this sticked or on liquipedia or something? This is super important.

plbro81 Profile Blog Joined November 2010 117 Posts #16 at what level of play can i look at this and use it? im in plat and i dont think me or other people i play time stuff well.

AnxiousHippo Profile Blog Joined January 2011 Australia 1447 Posts #17 On March 19 2011 14:24 plbro81 wrote:

at what level of play can i look at this and use it? im in plat and i dont think me or other people i play time stuff well.



I feel like it helps Zerg a lot considering we play DRONEDRONEDRONE UNIIIIIIIIIITS I feel like it helps Zerg a lot considering we play DRONEDRONEDRONE UNIIIIIIIIIITS An apple a day keeps the Protoss away | TLHF

wo1fwood Profile Blog Joined December 2010 3347 Posts Last Edited: 2011-03-19 13:13:37 #18 On March 19 2011 10:55 Najda wrote: + Show Spoiler +

A good thing to add would be some replay verification of the build order timings. I'd be happy to help with some of these and post the times I got. I'll start with some of the Terran ones and just post replays of me doing it vs a computer, and quitting after I reach the checkpoint.



1 Rax FE: CC @ ~3:50 (Tested this 5 times and got between 3:48 and 3:53 every time)

Replay:



2 Rax FE: CC @ 4:20-4:25 and 10 Marines @ 5:10-5:15

Replay



2 Rax FE vs P: 3 Marines 2 Marauders 1 Reaper and CC @ 5:15 (Followed the build on Liquipedia which gets CC later than 1 Marine and 1 Reaper)

Replay A good thing to add would be some replay verification of the build order timings. I'd be happy to help with some of these and post the times I got. I'll start with some of the Terran ones and just post replays of me doing it vs a computer, and quitting after I reach the checkpoint.1 Rax FE: CC @ ~3:50 (Tested this 5 times and got between 3:48 and 3:53 every time)Replay: http://drop.sc/1839 (3:48 in this replay)2 Rax FE: CC @ 4:20-4:25 and 10 Marines @ 5:10-5:15Replay http://drop.sc/1841 (4:24 CC 5:13 Marines)2 Rax FE vs P: 3 Marines 2 Marauders 1 Reaper and CC @ 5:15 (Followed the build on Liquipedia which gets CC later than 1 Marine and 1 Reaper)Replay http://drop.sc/1842 (CC @ 5:10 3 Rine 2 Marauder 1 Reaper @ 5:14)

I don't know, do people agree that this would be helpful?



Poll: Would an attached rep be useful in verifying best timings?



Yes (262)

56%



Yes, but only if they are pro reps (159)

34%



No, but if you are submitting a better time this should be a requirement (25)

5%



meh... (14)

3%



No, Liquipedia takes care of this (6)

1%



466 total votes (262)56%(159)34%(25)5%(14)3%(6)1%466 total votes Your vote: Would an attached rep be useful in verifying best timings? (Vote): Yes

(Vote): Yes, but only if they are pro reps

(Vote): No, but if you are submitting a better time this should be a requirement

(Vote): No, Liquipedia takes care of this

(Vote): meh...



On March 19 2011 12:47 Najda wrote:

Show nested quote +

On March 19 2011 11:24 caracarn wrote:

This is a really helpful thing to have. But all this is not when the things are in your base. You can almost say that everything is 40 seconds later then this timings.

I'm pretty sure the timings are just for practice validation to make sure you're doing it as efficiently as you should be. Or at least that's what I would use them for. I'm pretty sure the timings are just for practice validation to make sure you're doing it as efficiently as you should be. Or at least that's what I would use them for.

Partially this, and that you can always just add the approximate travel time to this in order to know when they are in your base. I didn't want to list those timings because the travel time on Shakuras is a lot longer than close air positions on LT or Meta, so there can be a lot of variance. I should mention that the 4warpgate and korean 4gate are obviously at or in your base at the above times.



I don't know, do people agree that this would be helpful?Partially this, and that you can always just add the approximate travel time to this in order to know when they are in your base. I didn't want to list those timings because the travel time on Shakuras is a lot longer than close air positions on LT or Meta, so there can be a lot of variance. I should mention that the 4warpgate and korean 4gate are obviously at or in your base at the above times. On March 19 2011 14:24 plbro81 wrote:

at what level of play can i look at this and use it? im in plat and i dont think me or other people i play time stuff well.

These timings should represent the best possible times for these openings. These timings should represent thefor these openings. Administrator needs a quote

Najda Profile Joined June 2010 United States 3431 Posts #19 + Show Spoiler + On March 19 2011 22:11 wo1fwood wrote:

On March 19 2011 10:55 Najda wrote: + Show Spoiler +

A good thing to add would be some replay verification of the build order timings. I'd be happy to help with some of these and post the times I got. I'll start with some of the Terran ones and just post replays of me doing it vs a computer, and quitting after I reach the checkpoint.



1 Rax FE: CC @ ~3:50 (Tested this 5 times and got between 3:48 and 3:53 every time)

Replay:



2 Rax FE: CC @ 4:20-4:25 and 10 Marines @ 5:10-5:15

Replay



2 Rax FE vs P: 3 Marines 2 Marauders 1 Reaper and CC @ 5:15 (Followed the build on Liquipedia which gets CC later than 1 Marine and 1 Reaper)

Replay A good thing to add would be some replay verification of the build order timings. I'd be happy to help with some of these and post the times I got. I'll start with some of the Terran ones and just post replays of me doing it vs a computer, and quitting after I reach the checkpoint.1 Rax FE: CC @ ~3:50 (Tested this 5 times and got between 3:48 and 3:53 every time)Replay: http://drop.sc/1839 (3:48 in this replay)2 Rax FE: CC @ 4:20-4:25 and 10 Marines @ 5:10-5:15Replay http://drop.sc/1841 (4:24 CC 5:13 Marines)2 Rax FE vs P: 3 Marines 2 Marauders 1 Reaper and CC @ 5:15 (Followed the build on Liquipedia which gets CC later than 1 Marine and 1 Reaper)Replay http://drop.sc/1842 (CC @ 5:10 3 Rine 2 Marauder 1 Reaper @ 5:14)

I don't know, do people agree that this would be helpful?



Poll: Would an attached rep be useful in verifying best timings?



Yes (262)

56%



Yes, but only if they are pro reps (159)

34%



No, but if you are submitting a better time this should be a requirement (25)

5%



meh... (14)

3%



No, Liquipedia takes care of this (6)

1%



466 total votes (262)56%(159)34%(25)5%(14)3%(6)1%466 total votes Your vote: Would an attached rep be useful in verifying best timings? (Vote): Yes

(Vote): Yes, but only if they are pro reps

(Vote): No, but if you are submitting a better time this should be a requirement

(Vote): No, Liquipedia takes care of this

(Vote): meh...



On March 19 2011 12:47 Najda wrote:

Show nested quote +

On March 19 2011 11:24 caracarn wrote:

This is a really helpful thing to have. But all this is not when the things are in your base. You can almost say that everything is 40 seconds later then this timings.

I'm pretty sure the timings are just for practice validation to make sure you're doing it as efficiently as you should be. Or at least that's what I would use them for. I'm pretty sure the timings are just for practice validation to make sure you're doing it as efficiently as you should be. Or at least that's what I would use them for.

Partially this, and that you can always just add the approximate travel time to this in order to know when they are in your base. I didn't want to list those timings because the travel time on Shakuras is a lot longer than close air positions on LT or Meta, so there can be a lot of variance. I should mention that the 4warpgate and korean 4gate are obviously at or in your base at the above times.



On March 19 2011 14:24 plbro81 wrote:

at what level of play can i look at this and use it? im in plat and i dont think me or other people i play time stuff well.

These timings should represent the best possible times for these openings. I don't know, do people agree that this would be helpful?Partially this, and that you can always just add the approximate travel time to this in order to know when they are in your base. I didn't want to list those timings because the travel time on Shakuras is a lot longer than close air positions on LT or Meta, so there can be a lot of variance. I should mention that the 4warpgate and korean 4gate are obviously at or in your base at the above times.These timings should represent thefor these openings.



In response to the poll, I think for a full game replay I'd definately want to see a pro to use it, but for the replays that I was providing (just reaching the timings and stopping) it'd be fine for anyone with decent mechanics to provide a replay. The variables are so limited in the early game that you can clearly see if the player is making a mistake or not.

In response to the poll, I think for a full game replay I'd definately want to see a pro to use it, but for the replays that I was providing (just reaching the timings and stopping) it'd be fine for anyone with decent mechanics to provide a replay. The variables are so limited in the early game that you can clearly see if the player is making a mistake or not.

wo1fwood Profile Blog Joined December 2010 3347 Posts #20 I would tend to agree with this^^, although I think I would set a few stipulations. For example, unless there is a defined worker count or the opening is an all in, # workers would matter as well. Another would be having to send out one worker to serve as a 'scout' at the appropriate time? Administrator needs a quote

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