N12

Legendary



Offline



Activity: 1610

Merit: 1003









DonatorLegendaryActivity: 1610Merit: 1003 The True Explanation of Ripple for Bitcoiners May 21, 2013, 03:41:53 AM #1



"Stop deceiving Bitcoiners. In the Ripple system, Bitcoins can only be held as IOUs, they are subject to counterparty risk. Only Ripples are devoid from counterparty risk, while they also are needed to maintain an account balance and conduct transactions (fee). If the Ripple system becomes the main way to interact with Bitcoin, the market will inevitably begin valuing Ripples higher, as they share all the advantages of Bitcoin with none of the disadvantages. Bitcoin usage would shrink, since it has no purpose really.



Ripple does not complement Bitcoin. Ripple is more of a parasite that feeds off Bitcoin until it can stand on its own.



You have said it yourself in the past. Within Ripple, XRP is superior to BTC.



OpenCoin is trying to apply a spin of coexisting to bootstrap themselves, but make no mistake, their business model is to hold XRP (30% is what they promise) until they appreciate in value. Ripples are not meant as mere tokens, but in the same way as Bitcoin a scarce asset, only without proof of work and its disadvantages.



Stop the intellectual dishonesty and say it like it is.



XRP is a direct competitor to BTC." This thread is in response to misterbigg's thread since he decided to delete my following message (why he did that, I don't think there is a purpose to ask) in his self-moderated thread:"Stop deceiving Bitcoiners. In the Ripple system, Bitcoins can only be held as IOUs, they are subject to counterparty risk. Only Ripples are devoid from counterparty risk, while they also are needed to maintain an account balance and conduct transactions (fee). If the Ripple system becomes the main way to interact with Bitcoin, the market will inevitably begin valuing Ripples higher, as they share all the advantages of Bitcoin with none of the disadvantages. Bitcoin usage would shrink, since it has no purpose really.Ripple does not complement Bitcoin. Ripple is more of a parasite that feeds off Bitcoin until it can stand on its own.You have said it yourself in the past. Within Ripple, XRP is superior to BTC.OpenCoin is trying to apply a spin of coexisting to bootstrap themselves, but make no mistake, their business model is to hold XRP (30% is what they promise) until they appreciate in value. Ripples are not meant as mere tokens, but in the same way as Bitcoin a scarce asset, only without proof of work and its disadvantages.Stop the intellectual dishonesty and say it like it is.XRP is a direct competitor to BTC."

cypherdoc



Offline



Activity: 1764

Merit: 1002









LegendaryActivity: 1764Merit: 1002 Re: The True Explanation of Ripple for Bitcoiners May 21, 2013, 03:50:43 AM #3 i simply asked misterbigg why a bank or financial institution would voluntarily participate as a gateway in the Ripple system when they have the Fed as an enabler? why would they submit to OpenCoin?



anything less than a bank as a gateway will be considered a money transmitter and have to comply with FinCen regs.

N12

Legendary



Offline



Activity: 1610

Merit: 1003









DonatorLegendaryActivity: 1610Merit: 1003 Re: The True Explanation of Ripple for Bitcoiners May 21, 2013, 03:53:00 AM #4 I think the PR work OpenCoin is doing is really good, because they are appealing to people's dislike of MtGox's status and naivities of "decentralized exchanges". The main narrative is "we are not here to threaten you, we only want to help Bitcoin". Meanwhile, they are holding on to at least 30% of all Ripples hoping to make money off them in the future, ie have them appreciate in value. It's clever, really.



The truth about the decentralized exchanges is that while Ripple performs a slick unified interface, the exchanges themselves are still just that, centralized market places, subject to theft, legal issues, etc.

misterbigg



Offline



Activity: 1064

Merit: 1001









LegendaryActivity: 1064Merit: 1001 Re: The True Explanation of Ripple for Bitcoiners May 21, 2013, 03:57:49 AM #9 Quote from: Blitz­ on May 21, 2013, 03:41:53 AM "Stop deceiving Bitcoiners.

I take umbrage to this - there's no deception going on. This is one reason I deleted your thread. There's no place for personal attacks in my moderated discussion.



Quote In the Ripple system, Bitcoins can only be held as IOUs, they are subject to counterparty risk.

Yep, and this has been explained numerous times. Another reason why I deleted your post from my thread. There is no place for repeating the same things over and over again like TradeFortress, without engaging in any real discourse.



Quote Only Ripples are devoid from counterparty risk, while they also are needed to maintain an account balance and conduct transactions (fee).

This is all true.



Quote If the Ripple system becomes the main way to interact with Bitcoin, the market will inevitably begin valuing Ripples higher, as they share all the advantages of Bitcoin with none of the disadvantages. Bitcoin usage would shrink, since it has no purpose really.

I wouldn't be so sure. In theory, if all the stars line up and all the vendors get on board with Ripple instead of Bitcoin, and there are no gateway defaults, and the government doesn't come cracking down on gateways, etc... then maybe in some distant future Ripple could be a competitor to Bitcoin.



Does this mean that Ripple will "kill" Bitcoin? I hardly think so. Did Apple "kill" Microsoft? Did the Euro "kill" the dollar? Ripple uses a different model of achieving consensus than Bitcoin. I'm sure that the market will value Bitcoin and Ripple appropriately.



But lets pretend for a moment that Ripple is so amazing that it renders Bitcoin totally obsolete (far fetched, but not impossible). Why should we feel bad about this? Clearly it deserves to "win" since it offers superior functionality. Everyone benefits from this scenario.



Quote Ripple is more of a parasite that feeds off Bitcoin until it can stand on its own.

And this is another reason why I deleted the thread, baseless accusations.



After Bitcoin fell 80% from $266 to $50 and MtGox was under DDoS, there were many cries in the forum for "decentralized exchanges" and getting rid of the "too big to fail exchange" MtGox. Ripple solves these problems and more, and now you're saying Ripple is a parasite? Far from being a parasite, Ripple will enhance the value of Bitcoin.



Ripple even enhances the value of what I consider to be the worthless alt-coins like Litecoin and what not.



Quote You have said it yourself in the past. Within Ripple, XRP is superior to BTC.

Yeah, I did say that.



Quote OpenCoin is trying to apply a spin of coexisting to bootstrap themselves

Another reason why I moderated your post. Another personal attack.



Quote their business model is to hold XRP (30% is what they promise) until they appreciate in value. Ripples are not meant as mere tokens, but in the same way as Bitcoin a scarce asset, only without proof of work and its disadvantages.

This is all true.



Quote Stop the intellectual dishonesty and say it like it is. XRP is a direct competitor to BTC.

And again a reason why I moderated your post. Yet another personal attack. And a baseless accusation, that XRP is a direct competitor.



Even if it is a competitor, shouldn't people be free to choose the currency they want? By your logic, all alt-coins are competitors and they are "intellectually dishonest" and they are a "parasite on Bitcoin." Do you really believe that? Ripple doesn't take part of Bitcoin's piece of the pie, it makes the pie bigger.



Now I certainly don't mind all of your personal attacks here. Children will be children, after all. But this is where it belongs - and not in my moderated thread which I am managing to keep high in signal and low in noise.

I take umbrage to this - there's no deception going on. This is one reason I deleted your thread. There's no place for personal attacks in my moderated discussion.Yep, and this has been explained numerous times. Another reason why I deleted your post from my thread. There is no place for repeating the same things over and over again like TradeFortress, without engaging in any real discourse.This is all true.I wouldn't be so sure. In theory, if all the stars line up and all the vendors get on board with Ripple instead of Bitcoin, and there are no gateway defaults, and the government doesn't come cracking down on gateways, etc... then maybe in some distant future Ripple could be a competitor to Bitcoin.Does this mean that Ripple will "kill" Bitcoin? I hardly think so. Did Apple "kill" Microsoft? Did the Euro "kill" the dollar? Ripple uses a different model of achieving consensus than Bitcoin. I'm sure that the market will value Bitcoin and Ripple appropriately.But lets pretend for a moment that Ripple is so amazing that it renders Bitcoin totally obsolete (far fetched, but not impossible). Why should we feel bad about this? Clearly it deserves to "win" since it offers superior functionality. Everyone benefits from this scenario.And this is another reason why I deleted the thread, baseless accusations.After Bitcoin fell 80% from $266 to $50 and MtGox was under DDoS, there were many cries in the forum for "decentralized exchanges" and getting rid of the "too big to fail exchange" MtGox. Ripple solves these problems and more, and now you're saying Ripple is a parasite? Far from being a parasite, Ripple will enhance the value of Bitcoin.Ripple even enhances the value of what I consider to be the worthless alt-coins like Litecoin and what not.Yeah, I did say that.Another reason why I moderated your post. Another personal attack.This is all true.And again a reason why I moderated your post. Yet another personal attack. And a baseless accusation, that XRP is a direct competitor.Even if it is a competitor, shouldn't people be free to choose the currency they want? By your logic, all alt-coins are competitors and they are "intellectually dishonest" and they are a "parasite on Bitcoin." Do you really believe that? Ripple doesn't take part of Bitcoin's piece of the pie,Now I certainly don't mind all of your personal attacks here. Children will be children, after all. But this is where it belongs - and not in my moderated thread which I am managing to keep high in signal and low in noise.

N12

Legendary



Offline



Activity: 1610

Merit: 1003









DonatorLegendaryActivity: 1610Merit: 1003 Re: The True Explanation of Ripple for Bitcoiners May 21, 2013, 04:11:38 AM #12 Quote But lets pretend for a moment that Ripple is so amazing that it renders Bitcoin totally obsolete (far fetched, but not impossible). Why should we feel bad about this? Clearly it deserves to "win" since it offers superior functionality. Everyone benefits from this scenario.

I agree. What I have a problem with is that XRP are not marketed as an alternative but something of a byproduct. I suspect that this PR will change once the Ripple system is more widely used, and begin shifting to advertise XRP as a BTC alternative.



Quote After Bitcoin fell 80% from $266 to $50 and MtGox was under DDoS, there were many cries in the forum for "decentralized exchanges" and getting rid of the "too big to fail exchange" MtGox. Ripple solves these problems and more, and now you're saying Ripple is a parasite? Far from being a parasite, Ripple will enhance the value of Bitcoin.

I don't know, we haven't seen the performance of the internal Ripple market place yet under stress. However, Ripple does not solve natural monopolies and its side effects. As more gateways emerge, we will simply have a new MtGox everyone goes to for the liquidity (which is currently bitstamp, as opposed to weex).



Quote By your logic, all alt-coins are competitors and they are "intellectually dishonest" and they are a "parasite on Bitcoin."

I do believe they are parasites, but I do not believe they are intellectually dishonest because they market themselves as what they are: an alternative currency. OpenCoin is marketing XRP as nothing at all except a mechanism to prevent network spam by requiring XRP for accounts and transactions. Meanwhile, they plan to make profit with 30% of all Ripples because they know it would acquire value, and this it will probably do so from Bitcoin.



And this is my main problem with the "spin" and why I call it intellectually dishonest. I agree. What I have a problem with is that XRP are not marketed as an alternative but something of a byproduct. I suspect that this PR will change once the Ripple system is more widely used, and begin shifting to advertise XRP as a BTC alternative.I don't know, we haven't seen the performance of the internal Ripple market place yet under stress. However, Ripple does not solve natural monopolies and its side effects. As more gateways emerge, we will simply have a new MtGox everyone goes to for the liquidity (which is currently bitstamp, as opposed to weex).I do believe they are parasites, but I do not believe they are intellectually dishonest because they market themselves as what they are:. OpenCoin is marketing XRP as nothing at all except a mechanism to prevent network spam by requiring XRP for accounts and transactions. Meanwhile, they plan to make profit with 30% of all Ripples because they know it would acquire value, and this it will probably do so from Bitcoin.And this is my main problem with the "spin" and why I call it intellectually dishonest.