We (me and my husband Sam) have been traveling for a year with two different brands of panniers, Ortliebs on Sam's bike and Lone Peak on mine. It's afforded us a good opportunity to compare and contrast the qualities of the two types. We're writing this review midway through our trip, journalled here. This review highlights the problems encountered with the Ortliebs and does not go into detail about their attributes, those having been detailed by everyone else above, and we make comparisons with the Lone Peaks since it better illustrates the shortfalls of the Ortliebs. We give the Ortliebs two stars because Sam has had several problems with them that are enough of a nuisance that we wouldn't take these panniers on a similar trip again. This rating is limited to the type of tour we're on - long-term with long stretches on rough roads. Ortlieb's good points - impermeability of the fabric, functionality, and unpartitioned volume - could make them ideal for certain other types of trips that other reviewers appreciate them for (ie, rain), they just haven't worked for ours. Sam's Ortliebs are of two different vintages, both roll top, but one set (the black ones) is older with different type of bottom mounts, and the new set (the yellow bags) have the football shaped bottom mounts. Because the problems we've had with them are common to both the old and the new, we don't differentiate between the types of Ortliebs. It is possible that older generation Ortliebs (even older than our black set, estimated at 5 years old) are more robust and would not be subject to some of these problems, but so far as we know, the newer generation bags all have similar mounting systems and so would eventually encounter the issues discussed here. For example, in our limited experience, the black bags (older) have beefier plastic tongues on the bottom mounts and haven't broken down as much as the yellow set (newer). We use Old Man Mountain racks. Relation | Bookmark | Edit | | Report | Link Rating: (0) The mounting systems on the black (older model) and yellow (newer model) of Sam's Ortliebs. It must be stated that we have put these panniers through challenging conditions, over very rough roads in Mongolia and the Himalaya, and the problems we've encountered have undoubtedly been caused by this rough riding. However, Sam's panniers are of a reasonable weight (he priding himself on his ultra-light philosophy, although I temper that some with certain creature comforts, like a tent) and he is cautious on bumpy roads to prevent undue destruction to rims and bike frame. So we feel like it's fair to say the Ortliebs are good for smooth roads and occasional touring, but nothing arduous or sustained - we've found the Lone Peaks to be ideal for rough riding and long-term use. Review of them here. The specific problems we've experienced with the Ortliebs are: 1. Losing the plastic grippers. 2. Repeated loosening of the screws. 3. Inflexibility of the lower mounting system. 4. Wearing through of the material. Here are pictures and explanations for each of the above problems: Problem 1. Losing the plastic grippers. I call the little plastic pieces that nestle in the upper mounting brackets the 'grippers' because their purpose is to grip the upper bar of the rack tightly. That is presumably why Ortlieb designed them to simply nestle and not to connect to the brackets - so that they could be switched out to accommodate different size rack bars. When a pannier is new, the grippers do not readily come out, but as use loosens them, they come so loose that it is a struggle to keep them in. Relation | Bookmark | Edit | | Report | Link Rating: (0) Close-up of the bracket with the gripper removed, sitting on the pannier. Easy little bit to lose! Relation | Bookmark | Edit | | Report | Link Rating: (0) The bracket closed with the gripper nestled inside of it, where it is supposed to stay (but doesn't). Because they are separate pieces, they easily fall out whenever the bracket levers are opened, which happens every time you pull up on what looks like a handle but is really only the release pull used to pull the bag off the rack. Relation | Bookmark | Edit | | Report | Link Rating: (0) When the release handle is pulled, the clasps open and the grippers can fall out (and do). This is easy enough to avoid if it's only you using the release pull (although Sam is constantly checking to make sure the grippers are in place whenever he racks or unracks his panniers), but we daily run into overly helpful hotel staff or locals looking to help us move our panniers who lift up on what looks like a handle but really releases the grippers. Relation | Bookmark | Edit | | Report | Link Rating: (0) If you were trying to help a cyclist move panniers, would you pick it up by the handle-looking thing or the buckle? Right answer - the buckle - but no one uses that and instead lifts by the handle, releasing the grippers. To solve the problem, we tie bits of floss around the bracket to hold the grippers in. But the floss eventually breaks and who wants to have to use floss to fix a design flaw in an expensive piece of equipment anyway? Relation | Bookmark | Edit | | Report | Link Rating: (0) Floss tied on to hold the grippers in. The grippers can also be left on the rack instead of struggling to keep them in the brackets, but they risk being lost just as much there since their grip on the bar (in the case of these racks) isn't firm and they easily fall off over night if the bike is bumped or moved. We have extra grippers with us, but through extreme diligence and luck (finding lost grippers in guesthouse gardens and on hotel lobby floors) we haven't (yet) lost a gripper. Extra grippers recommended for those traveling with these types of upper mounting brackets. Problem 2. Loosening of screws. Each Ortlieb bag has no fewer than 14 screws connecting the various plastic bits to its back. Sam routinely checks the tightness of the screws, but several times they have loosened over particularly rough stretches of road and have fallen out, leaving the pannier dangling by an attachment point or two - always heart-stopping when you think you've lost a pannier in traffic. Relation | Bookmark | Edit | | Report | Link Rating: Interesting (1) Where we have a few screws loose (we won't deny it); and where the track gaping and may eventually cause problems. The problem most commonly happens with the screw that connects the upper bracket to its track (green arrow). When it falls out, the pannier almost feels like it falls off. The other screw that most frequently comes loose (pink arrow)holds on the stability bar (I call the sturdy bar of plastic that connects the upper brackets to the pannier the stability bar, making up my own technical terms here). When this happens, the bag tugs forward and risks tearing the rubberized material at the next screw point. Also, there is a potential problem developing, visible in the photo above. After a year of use, all of the stability bars on Sam's four bags look like they are sagging inwards, due to the natural pull of gravity from carrying the contents of the bags for so long. This wouldn't be a problem except that the bar doubles as the track that the upper mounting brackets are screwed into, and as the bars have flexed inwards, the track mouth has opened wide enough that the anchors connecting the upper brackets look like they could pop out. Sam has slid the brackets to different, undistorted places in the tracks to avoid this problem, but with the limitations posed by his rack, he only has a few inches of track within which he can move them. For now he's keeping an eye on it to make sure it doesn't get worse but it is disconcerting to see the stability bars gape open. Problem 3. Inflexibility of the bottom mounts. A feature common to all Ortliebs is the plastic tongue that hooks behind a rack bar to hold the bottom of the bag against the rack, although it seems the older the bag, the more sturdy the plastic tongue (Sam's black, old bags have beefier tongues here, so don't suffer this particular problem). Relation | Bookmark | Edit | | Report | Link Rating: (0) The plastic tongue that hooks on the lower part of a rack, and is vulnerable to bouncing off and breaking. The problem is that the tongue is both pliable enough to pop off on bumps, so that the rider must stop and reattach the bag, and also not pliable enough to withstand many thousands of miles on rough roads, and so eventually breaks off. We think Neil's modification of adding another tongue on is ingenious and could mitigate this problem all together, but we failed to read up on this review properly before leaving and so took off with only one tongue per bag. Relation | Bookmark | Edit | | Report | Link Rating: Interesting (1) Broken-off tongue on one of the Ortliebs. One of the four panniers has a broken off tongue, and Sam ties it on to the rack, strapped on and looking like a Christmas present. This is inconvenient to get the pannier on and off the rack, having to knot or unknot it each time, and you can't open the pannier without undoing the tie. Replacement tongues are possible, but it's a pain to tie the bag on while the logistics of getting replacement parts to far corners of the globe work themselves out. The limitations of the bottom mounting system on the Ortliebs are more apparent when compared to the elasticity of the Lone Peaks, where a thick bungee-like cord allows the pannier to absorb the bumps without breaking down the mounting pieces. Problem 4: Wearing through of the material. The rubberized tarpaulin from which the bags are made hasn't held up as well as the canvas material of Erin's Lone Peaks. Two separate holes have developed in the Ortliebs (one from a thorn poking through and one from an unknown cause, perhaps thinned fabric breaking) and a few spots where the material has thinned and holes might develop. Relation | Bookmark | Edit | | Report | Link Rating: Interesting (1) Patching holes and thin spots with duct tape. This is the down side of being waterproof, that once that barrier is broken, it is harder to repair - in contrast with the canvas (non-waterproof) material of the Lone Peaks, which can be poked by thorns etc and it doesn't matter since there is no waterproof integrity to destroy. Also, no rubbing or wearing thin is visible in the canvas Lone Peaks. The problems we've experienced are by no means catastrophic. We haven't lost anything and nothing has been destroyed. The Ortliebs are still very much functional. We travel over many dusty roads, and the impermeability of the Ortlieb material does a much better job of keeping out dust than the permeable Lone Peak canvas. The Ortliebs also have a greater unpartitioned volume, allowing us to pack our rather large tent inside one Ortlieb bag - it wouldn't fit in one of the Lone Peaks with their partitions and pockets. But in all, we wouldn't use the Ortliebs again on a trip like this - the diligence, attention and time it takes to keep them in working order isn't worth it when other products out there offer greater durability for less cost. Addendum by Erin Arnold Barkley on Sat Nov 7 05:20:38 2009 PST: Additional problems with Sam's Ortliebs have arisen that seem to warrant an addendum, so here goes: Problem 5: More broken bits. The connecting hook broke, and the pannier fell off into traffic (but was retrieved unscathed). It seems like it is a continuing deterioration of the rigid plastic bits Ortlieb uses, and that eventually, regardless of weight of bags or hideousness of roads, the plastic they use is simply too brittle for prolonged use. Problem 6: Awful Customer Service. Like Chris Wee suggested when our problems first arose, we emailed Ortlieb customer service a link to the review to see if they were listening. This is their response, in its entirety: Dear Erin, thanks for your detailed review; we know, there is always something which can be improved; but you should have mentioned, that all parts of the panniers can be replaced by the user himself and even the worn through fabric can be fixed (repair kits); With best regards Rolf Kathrein-Lehmann Now, I did mention the parts are replaceable, but what's the point of buying expensive panniers if they're only going to fall apart in far corners of the world where, regardless of whether the parts are replaceable or not, acquiring those parts is rather difficult? We were in the wilds of Central Asia, it wasn't like there was an Ortlieb dealer around the corner. Once Sam's attaching bracket broke in Pakistan we emailed Ortlieb to see if they couldn't find it in their hearts (and budget) to send him new plastic pieces in Kashgar, seeing as how one of his panniers was held on now only by rope tied around it and the panniers were still under warranty. In response we got - total and complete silence. They didn't even respond! We were then out of email touch for several weeks, unable to order the parts for ourselves, with Sam spending quite a while each morning tying one of his panniers on to sally forth over hideous roads in Kyrgyzstan and Tajikistan. He was eventually able to order the spare bits needed, to the tune of $50 (excluding shipping). As he commented, that's a substantial portion of a new set of Lone Peak panniers; it's hard to see what justifies the Ortlieb expense when they are inferior to at least the Lone Peaks I use that don't require user-rigged miscellany, like tape or glue to make them work.