Torte de Lini Profile Joined September 2010 Germany 7680 Posts Last Edited: 2017-06-13 06:47:51 #7022 This latest update and hero builds changes was made possible thanks to the feedback and knowledge of the following community members. Sincere thank you to: wuweidota400, Prezombie, Buckyman, bdonballer, Velzi, G_Sharpe, TurboChewy, NewDark90, 08341, Buggatron





23.98% of last month's unique players [12,576,908] are subscribed to the our highest subscribed guide: Sven Guide





Sven Guide 5,309,830 in new subscriptions is the highest growth ever achieved in a 15-day period since the project's inception



10,255,570 in new subscriptions is the highest growth ever achieved in 30-day period since the project's inception





recently hit the 3 million mark



recently hit the 3 million mark recently hit the 2 million mark



recently hit the 2 million mark recently hit the 1 million mark





recently hit the 1 million mark Thwo guides are currently swimming towards the 1 million mark: https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)

Torte de Lini Profile Joined September 2010 Germany 7680 Posts #7023 Officially hit 230 million.

yay https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)

Torte de Lini Profile Joined September 2010 Germany 7680 Posts Last Edited: 2017-05-28 09:19:56 #7024 ed https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)

Velzi Profile Joined June 2012 Finland 598 Posts #7025 Left 4 Dead 2: Luna new DLC confirmed



Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you to their level and then beat you with experience. http://www.dotabuff.com/players/115305822 https://yasp.co/players/115305822

Logo Profile Joined April 2010 United States 4568 Posts #7026 Phoenix seems to be sitting on the exact opposite talent build (+health, +gpm, +armor, +stun duration vs +xp, +spirit dmg, +spell amp, +hits to kill) Logo

Torte de Lini Profile Joined September 2010 Germany 7680 Posts #7027 ill note it down as things to do - just a tad busy with an upcoming brand launch https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)

Sn0_Man Profile Joined October 2012 Tebellong 31461 Posts Last Edited: 2017-05-27 22:47:58 #7028 when is cybersport.com or w/e launching anyway? Moderator SCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302

Torte de Lini Profile Joined September 2010 Germany 7680 Posts Last Edited: 2017-05-28 08:00:14 #7029 On May 28 2017 07:47 Sn0_Man wrote:

when is cybersport.com or w/e launching anyway?



Before Epicenter at the very least.

I've been busy with ESforce, signing the papers for my new apartment (after 8 months living in temporary apartments across 3-4 countries) and a few other things. Before Epicenter at the very least.I've been busy with ESforce, signing the papers for my new apartment (after 8 months living in temporary apartments across 3-4 countries) and a few other things. https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)

Torte de Lini Profile Joined September 2010 Germany 7680 Posts Last Edited: 2017-06-01 23:30:08 #7030 Luna

Added Wraith Band to Starting Items

Removed Iron Branch x2

Removed Healing Salve

Removed Circlet of Nobility



Phoenix (Support)

Phoenix (Offlane

New Talent Tree: 10 (+20% XP Gain), 15 (+65 Fire Spirits DPS), 20 (+8% Spell Amplification), 25 (+2 Supernova Hit Count)



Ember Spirit (Core/Magic)

Removed Blade Mail



Juggernaut

Added Slipper of Agility x2 to Starting Items

Added Clarity to Starting Items

Added Magic Wand to Core Items

Removed Enchanted Mango

Removed Poor Man's Shield

Removed Iron Branch x2



Phantom Lancer

New Talent Tree: 10 (+20 Attack Speed), 15 (+8 All Stats), 20 (15% Evasion), 25 (+20 Strength)

Created New Tab: "Core Items (Aggressive)"

Added Hand of Midas to Situational Items

Added Sange & Yasha to Situational Items

Added Monkey King Bar to Extension Items

Moved Aghanim's Scepter to "Core Items (Aggressive)"

Moved Boots of Travel to "Core Items (Aggressive)"

Removed Echo Sabre



Shadow Shaman

New Talent Tree: 10 (+25 Movement Speed), 15 (+35% XP Gain), 20 (+4 Wards Summoned), 25 (+350 Ether Shock Damage)

Added Lotus Orb to Extension Items

Moved Eul's Scepter of Divinity to Core Items

Moved Force Staff to Extension Items

Moved Blink Dagger to Core Items

Removed Observer Ward



Naga Siren (Core)

New Skill Build: E Q E Q E Q E Q W T E E W W T W R T T (1. Rip Tide 2. Mirror Image 3. Ensnare)

Added Arcane Boots to Early Game



Vengeful Spirit (Support)

Added Pipe of Insight to Situational Items

Added Linken's Sphere to Situational Items

Added Heaven's Halberd to Extension Items



Necrophos

Added Phase Boots to Core Items (Aggressive)

Added Dagon - Level 5 to Extension Items

Removed Power Treads

Removed Boots of Travel



Sand King

New Skill Build: Q E Q W Q R Q E E E T R W W T W R T T (1. Burrowstrike 2. Caustic Finale 3. Sand Storm)

New Talent Tree: 11 (+5 Armor), 15 (+50 Sand Storm DPS), 20 (+120 Gold/Min), 25 (+50 Health Regen)

Added Pipe of Insight to Situational Items

Moved Eul's Scepter of Divinity to Core Items

Moved Force Staff to Extension Items

Removed Aether Lens



Chaos Knight

New Skill Build: Q W Q W Q R Q W W T E R E E T E R T T (1. Chaos Bolt 2. Reality Rift 3. Chaos Strike)

Moved Echo Sabre to Core Items



Huskar

Moved Black King Bar to Core Items

Moved Heaven's Halberd to Extension Items



Lifestealer (Jungle)

Added Stout Shield to Starting Items

Added Ring of Protection to Starting Items

Added Quelling Blade to Starting Items

Added Hand of Midas to Situational Items

Removed Poor Man's Shield



Silencer (Core)

New Skill Build: W Q Q E Q R Q W W T W R W W T W R T T (1. Arcane Curse 2. Last Word 3. Glaives of Wisdom)

Added Magic Wand to Early Game

Added Moon Shard to Extension Items

Added Scythe of Vyse to Extension Items

Added Linken's Sphere to Situational Items

Moved Hand of Midas to Core Items

Moved Hurricane Pike to Core Items

Removed Bottle

Removed Assault Cuirass

Removed Veil of Discord



Silencer (Support)

Created New Tab: "Luxury Items"

Added Tranquil Boots to Core Items

Added Urn of Shadows to Situational Items

Added Linken's Sphere to Situational Items

Added Boots of Travel to Extension Items

Added Solar Crest to Extension Items

Moved Hand of Midas to Situational Items

Moved Veil of Discord to Situational Items

Moved Glimmer Cape to Extension Items

Moved Aghanim's Scepter to Luxury Items

Moved Refresher Orb to Luxury Items

Moved Scythe of Vyse to Luxury Items

Removed Power Treads

Removed Mekansm



Bloodseeker (Core)

New Talent Tree: 10 (+25 Damage), 15 (+30 Attack Speed), 20 (+10 All Stats), 25 (-7s Bloodrite Cooldown)

Added Slippers of Agility x2 to Starting Items

Added Magic Wand to Early Game

Added Phase Boots to Early Game

Added Blade Mail to Core Items

Added Hand of Midas to Situational Items

Added Butterfly to Extension Items

Removed Power Treads

Removed Stout Shield



Kunkka (Support)

Created New Tab: "Early Game"

Added Boots of Speed to Early Game

Added Boots of Travel to Extension Items

Moved Urn of Shadows to Early Game

Moved Lotus Orb to Situational Items

Removed Veil of Discord



Kunkka (Core)

New Skill Build: W Q W E W R W Q Q T Q R E E T E R T T (1. Tidebringer 2. Torrent 3. X Marks the Spot)



Abaddon

Moved Blade Mail to Core Items (Radiance)



Bloodseeker (Jungle)

New Talent Tree: 10 (+25 Damage), 15 (+7 Blood Rite Damage), 20 (+14% Rupture Damage), 25 (-7s Bloodrite Cooldown)

Added Blade Mail to Situational Items

Added Octarine Core to Extension Items

Removed Wind Lace

Removed Ethereal Blade

Removed Abyssal Blade



Razor

New Skill Build: W E W Q W Q W Q Q T R R E E T E R T T (1. Static Link 2. Plasma Field 3. Unstable Current)

New Talent Tree: 10 (+15 Agility), 15 (+175 Cast Range), 20 (+400 Health), 25 (+175 Attack Range)

Created New Tab: "Starting Items (Safe Lane)"

Created New Tab: "Early Game (Safe Lane)"

Added Wind Lace to Starting Items (Safe Lane)

Added Tango to Starting Items (Safe Lane)

Added Healing Salve to Starting Items (Safe Lane)

Added Iron Branch x2 to Starting Items (Safe Lane)

Added Boots of Speed to Early Game (Safe Lane)

Added Ring of Aquila to Early Game (Safe Lane)

Added Magic Wand to Core Items

Added Hand of Midas to Situational Items

Added Butterfly to Extension Items



Jakiro

New Skill Build: Q E Q E E W E W R T W R W Q T Q R T T (1. Liquid Fire 2. Ice Path 3. Dual Breath)

New Talent Tree: 10 (+25% XP Gain), 15 (+125 Cast Range), 20 (+150 Gold/Min), 25 (+1.25s Ice Path Duration)

Added Hand of Midas to Situational Items

Added Boots of Travel to Extension Items

Moved Force Staff to Extension Items

Removed Wind Lace

Removed Veil of Discord



[urlhttp://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=129067853]Lina (Support)[/url]

New Talent Tree: 10 (+125 Cast Range), +15 (+50 Damage), 20 (+150 Attack Range), 25 (+40/4% Fiery Soul per Stack)

Added Force Staff to Extension Items

Added Mjollnir to Extension Items

Removed Hurricane Pike

Removed Veil of Discord



Medusa

New Talent Tree: 10 (+12 Intelligence), 15 (15% Evasion), 20 (+600 Mana), 25 (25% Lifesteal)

Moved Linken's Sphere to Core Items



Venomancer

New Skill Build: E W E Q E W E R W T W R Q Q T Q R T T (1. Plague Ward 2. Poison Sting 3. Venomous Gale)



Viper

New Skill Build: Q W Q E E R E E W T W R W Q T Q T T (1. Corrosive Skin 2. Nethertoxin 3. Poison Attack)

New Talent Tree:

Added Dragon Lance to Core Items (Mid - Tank)

Added Shadow Blade to Core Items (Mid - Aggro)

Added Hand of Midas to Situational Items

Added Monkey King Bar to Extension Items

Added Bloodthorn to Extension Items

Moved Blade Mail to Core Items (Tank)

Removed Healing Salve

Removed Mekansm

Removed Eye of Skadi



Dragon Knight

Added Hand of Midas to Situational Items

Added Blade Mail to Situational Items

Added Heaven's Halberd to Situational Items

Removed Helm of the Dominator



Monkey King (Core)

Added Shadow Blade to Core Items

Removed Ring of Aquila



Renamed Offlane

Treant Protector

Created New Tab: "Early Game"

New Talent Tree: 10 (+2 Mana Regen), 15 (+90 Gold/Min), 20 (15% Cooldown Reduction), 25 (+40 Leech Seed Damage/Heal)

Added Boots of Speed to "Early Game"

Added Tranquil Boots to Core Items (Support)

Added Heaven's Halberd to Situational Items

Added Force Staff to Extension Items

Added Lotus Orb to Extension Items

Moved Blink Dagger to Core Items

Moved Hand of Midas to Situational Items

Removed Arcane Boots

Removed Iron Talon

Removed Octarine Core



Users: Velzi, Logo, Sn0_Man, Prezombie, cli337, n1tKanal, Kaerlok, Hectario, beyondBP, Dragoniar, Trentdeni, Birdie, Bdonballer, Belisarius Added Wraith Band to Starting ItemsRemoved Iron Branch x2Removed Healing SalveRemoved Circlet of NobilityNew Talent Tree: 10 (+20% XP Gain), 15 (+65 Fire Spirits DPS), 20 (+8% Spell Amplification), 25 (+2 Supernova Hit Count)Removed Blade MailAdded Slipper of Agility x2 to Starting ItemsAdded Clarity to Starting ItemsAdded Magic Wand to Core ItemsRemoved Enchanted MangoRemoved Poor Man's ShieldRemoved Iron Branch x2New Talent Tree: 10 (+20 Attack Speed), 15 (+8 All Stats), 20 (15% Evasion), 25 (+20 Strength)Created New Tab: "Core Items (Aggressive)"Added Hand of Midas to Situational ItemsAdded Sange & Yasha to Situational ItemsAdded Monkey King Bar to Extension ItemsMoved Aghanim's Scepter to "Core Items (Aggressive)"Moved Boots of Travel to "Core Items (Aggressive)"Removed Echo SabreNew Talent Tree: 10 (+25 Movement Speed), 15 (+35% XP Gain), 20 (+4 Wards Summoned), 25 (+350 Ether Shock Damage)Added Lotus Orb to Extension ItemsMoved Eul's Scepter of Divinity to Core ItemsMoved Force Staff to Extension ItemsMoved Blink Dagger to Core ItemsRemoved Observer WardNew Skill Build: E Q E Q E Q E Q W T E E W W T W R T T (1. Rip Tide 2. Mirror Image 3. Ensnare)Added Arcane Boots to Early GameAdded Pipe of Insight to Situational ItemsAdded Linken's Sphere to Situational ItemsAdded Heaven's Halberd to Extension ItemsAdded Phase Boots to Core Items (Aggressive)Added Dagon - Level 5 to Extension ItemsRemoved Power TreadsRemoved Boots of TravelNew Skill Build: Q E Q W Q R Q E E E T R W W T W R T T (1. Burrowstrike 2. Caustic Finale 3. Sand Storm)New Talent Tree: 11 (+5 Armor), 15 (+50 Sand Storm DPS), 20 (+120 Gold/Min), 25 (+50 Health Regen)Added Pipe of Insight to Situational ItemsMoved Eul's Scepter of Divinity to Core ItemsMoved Force Staff to Extension ItemsRemoved Aether LensNew Skill Build: Q W Q W Q R Q W W T E R E E T E R T T (1. Chaos Bolt 2. Reality Rift 3. Chaos Strike)Moved Echo Sabre to Core ItemsMoved Black King Bar to Core ItemsMoved Heaven's Halberd to Extension ItemsAdded Stout Shield to Starting ItemsAdded Ring of Protection to Starting ItemsAdded Quelling Blade to Starting ItemsAdded Hand of Midas to Situational ItemsRemoved Poor Man's ShieldNew Skill Build: W Q Q E Q R Q W W T W R W W T W R T T (1. Arcane Curse 2. Last Word 3. Glaives of Wisdom)Added Magic Wand to Early GameAdded Moon Shard to Extension ItemsAdded Scythe of Vyse to Extension ItemsAdded Linken's Sphere to Situational ItemsMoved Hand of Midas to Core ItemsMoved Hurricane Pike to Core ItemsRemoved BottleRemoved Assault CuirassRemoved Veil of DiscordCreated New Tab: "Luxury Items"Added Tranquil Boots to Core ItemsAdded Urn of Shadows to Situational ItemsAdded Linken's Sphere to Situational ItemsAdded Boots of Travel to Extension ItemsAdded Solar Crest to Extension ItemsMoved Hand of Midas to Situational ItemsMoved Veil of Discord to Situational ItemsMoved Glimmer Cape to Extension ItemsMoved Aghanim's Scepter to Luxury ItemsMoved Refresher Orb to Luxury ItemsMoved Scythe of Vyse to Luxury ItemsRemoved Power TreadsRemoved MekansmNew Talent Tree: 10 (+25 Damage), 15 (+30 Attack Speed), 20 (+10 All Stats), 25 (-7s Bloodrite Cooldown)Added Slippers of Agility x2 to Starting ItemsAdded Magic Wand to Early GameAdded Phase Boots to Early GameAdded Blade Mail to Core ItemsAdded Hand of Midas to Situational ItemsAdded Butterfly to Extension ItemsRemoved Power TreadsRemoved Stout ShieldCreated New Tab: "Early Game"Added Boots of Speed to Early GameAdded Boots of Travel to Extension ItemsMoved Urn of Shadows to Early GameMoved Lotus Orb to Situational ItemsRemoved Veil of DiscordNew Skill Build: W Q W E W R W Q Q T Q R E E T E R T T (1. Tidebringer 2. Torrent 3. X Marks the Spot)Moved Blade Mail to Core Items (Radiance)New Talent Tree: 10 (+25 Damage), 15 (+7 Blood Rite Damage), 20 (+14% Rupture Damage), 25 (-7s Bloodrite Cooldown)Added Blade Mail to Situational ItemsAdded Octarine Core to Extension ItemsRemoved Wind LaceRemoved Ethereal BladeRemoved Abyssal BladeNew Skill Build: W E W Q W Q W Q Q T R R E E T E R T T (1. Static Link 2. Plasma Field 3. Unstable Current)New Talent Tree: 10 (+15 Agility), 15 (+175 Cast Range), 20 (+400 Health), 25 (+175 Attack Range)Created New Tab: "Starting Items (Safe Lane)"Created New Tab: "Early Game (Safe Lane)"Added Wind Lace to Starting Items (Safe Lane)Added Tango to Starting Items (Safe Lane)Added Healing Salve to Starting Items (Safe Lane)Added Iron Branch x2 to Starting Items (Safe Lane)Added Boots of Speed to Early Game (Safe Lane)Added Ring of Aquila to Early Game (Safe Lane)Added Magic Wand to Core ItemsAdded Hand of Midas to Situational ItemsAdded Butterfly to Extension ItemsNew Skill Build: Q E Q E E W E W R T W R W Q T Q R T T (1. Liquid Fire 2. Ice Path 3. Dual Breath)New Talent Tree: 10 (+25% XP Gain), 15 (+125 Cast Range), 20 (+150 Gold/Min), 25 (+1.25s Ice Path Duration)Added Hand of Midas to Situational ItemsAdded Boots of Travel to Extension ItemsMoved Force Staff to Extension ItemsRemoved Wind LaceRemoved Veil of Discord[urlhttp://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=129067853]Lina (Support)[/url]New Talent Tree: 10 (+125 Cast Range), +15 (+50 Damage), 20 (+150 Attack Range), 25 (+40/4% Fiery Soul per Stack)Added Force Staff to Extension ItemsAdded Mjollnir to Extension ItemsRemoved Hurricane PikeRemoved Veil of DiscordNew Talent Tree: 10 (+12 Intelligence), 15 (15% Evasion), 20 (+600 Mana), 25 (25% Lifesteal)Moved Linken's Sphere to Core ItemsNew Skill Build: E W E Q E W E R W T W R Q Q T Q R T T (1. Plague Ward 2. Poison Sting 3. Venomous Gale)New Skill Build: Q W Q E E R E E W T W R W Q T Q T T (1. Corrosive Skin 2. Nethertoxin 3. Poison Attack)New Talent Tree:Added Dragon Lance to Core Items (Mid - Tank)Added Shadow Blade to Core Items (Mid - Aggro)Added Hand of Midas to Situational ItemsAdded Monkey King Bar to Extension ItemsAdded Bloodthorn to Extension ItemsMoved Blade Mail to Core Items (Tank)Removed Healing SalveRemoved MekansmRemoved Eye of SkadiAdded Hand of Midas to Situational ItemsAdded Blade Mail to Situational ItemsAdded Heaven's Halberd to Situational ItemsRemoved Helm of the DominatorAdded Shadow Blade to Core ItemsRemoved Ring of AquilaCreated New Tab: "Early Game"New Talent Tree: 10 (+2 Mana Regen), 15 (+90 Gold/Min), 20 (15% Cooldown Reduction), 25 (+40 Leech Seed Damage/Heal)Added Boots of Speed to "Early Game"Added Tranquil Boots to Core Items (Support)Added Heaven's Halberd to Situational ItemsAdded Force Staff to Extension ItemsAdded Lotus Orb to Extension ItemsMoved Blink Dagger to Core ItemsMoved Hand of Midas to Situational ItemsRemoved Arcane BootsRemoved Iron TalonRemoved Octarine CoreUsers: Velzi, Logo, Sn0_Man, Prezombie, cli337, n1tKanal, Kaerlok, Hectario, beyondBP, Dragoniar, Trentdeni, Birdie, Bdonballer, Belisarius https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)

SpiritoftheTunA Profile Joined August 2006 United States 14737 Posts Last Edited: 2017-05-29 16:05:26 #7031 re: chaos knight



New Skill Build: Q W Q W Q W Q W E T R R E E T E R T T



i still think the 4th point in reality rift is more important than the 4th point in stun in most games, due to the cooldown change. it's debatable though, because having a chance at a 4s stun is pretty big too.



i definitely think ult should be taken before level 1 crit either way



would like others to have input on this as well posting on liquid sites in current year

Velzi Profile Joined June 2012 Finland 598 Posts #7032 Viper



While lvl1 W lets u last hit easier, i feel like harass potential of lvl1 Q is way better because u can harass without drawing aggro. Its easier to last hit with less damage when enemy mid is not even trying to last hit than with more damage while enemy hero is also trying to last hit. Viper is lane dominator because of his Q, dunno why u would ever skip it lvl1. Its like Razor skipping link lvl1.



CK



I think u want lvl1 ult before crit, even tho its ridiculously expensive, having 50% chance to triple instead of double ur damage output is too good to pass up.



What comes to stun or rift maxed first, i feel like having guaranteed 2s stun instead of 1s is better than 4s less cooldown in rift. Its not very likely u are going to be able to Rift Stun Rift in a fight even with lvl4 rift, target is either dead or away by the time u are going for the second rift.



Its basicly debate between 4s less cooldown in Rift vs. guaranteed 1s/2s stun. Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you to their level and then beat you with experience. http://www.dotabuff.com/players/115305822 https://yasp.co/players/115305822

Sn0_Man Profile Joined October 2012 Tebellong 31461 Posts #7033 Viper should be taking 175 hp and 15 strength talents almost certainly, although 16 agility has some merit.



I do not believe that aghs or mek are ever purchaseable on that hero anymore.



I also do not favour max-nethertoxin. Maybe a 2nd point to assist in lasthitting, but maxing it seems like a huge waste. Poison attack's slow will be superior for killing heroes, and if you don't need to do that then corrosive makes you tankier AND is better for flash farming, if not CS (corrosive kills creeps surprisingly fast if they hit you) Moderator SCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302

Velzi Profile Joined June 2012 Finland 598 Posts #7034 On May 30 2017 02:23 Sn0_Man wrote:

Viper should be taking 175 hp and 15 strength talents almost certainly, although 16 agility has some merit.



I do not believe that aghs or mek are ever purchaseable on that hero anymore.



I also do not favour max-nethertoxin. Maybe a 2nd point to assist in lasthitting, but maxing it seems like a huge waste. Poison attack's slow will be superior for killing heroes, and if you don't need to do that then corrosive makes you tankier AND is better for flash farming, if not CS (corrosive kills creeps surprisingly fast if they hit you)

Agree on STR now that they buffed in the last patch from 10 to 15. 10 STR vs 16 AGI was close call but 15 STR is too much to pass. Aghs i would keep situational, Mek i completely agree with.



This is the build i like the most:



Q W Q E E R E E W T W R W Q T Q T

unless u feel like u need 3rd lvl in Q to stick on the target, i go:

Q W Q E Q R E E E T W R W W T Q T





Agree on STR now that they buffed in the last patch from 10 to 15. 10 STR vs 16 AGI was close call but 15 STR is too much to pass. Aghs i would keep situational, Mek i completely agree with.This is the build i like the most:Q W Q E E R E E W T W R W Q T Q Tunless u feel like u need 3rd lvl in Q to stick on the target, i go:Q W Q E Q R E E E T W R W W T Q T Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you to their level and then beat you with experience. http://www.dotabuff.com/players/115305822 https://yasp.co/players/115305822

Torte de Lini Profile Joined September 2010 Germany 7680 Posts Last Edited: 2017-05-29 20:53:50 #7035 problem with Viper is that no one plays him competitively.



Ok on Health + Str.

Ok on lvl 1 Poison

Ok on removal of Meka and Aghs (end of an era to remove Mekansm...)



Q W Q E E R E E W T W R W Q T Q T



Sounds good.





Ok on lvl6 ultimate, will need to describe it.

Stun > Reach



Also Echo before Manta. Manta isn't a popular item lately though. problem with Viper is that no one plays him competitively.Ok on Health + Str.Ok on lvl 1 PoisonOk on removal of Meka and Aghs (end of an era to remove Mekansm...)Q W Q E E R E E W T W R W Q T Q TSounds good.Ok on lvl6 ultimate, will need to describe it.Stun > ReachAlso Echo before Manta. Manta isn't a popular item lately though. https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)

bdonballer Profile Joined October 2014 United States 408 Posts #7036 Manta on ck is really good though. It allows you to teamfight without having ult available. I think we have the right skill build with his ult. It should not be taken until level 10/11 because you have no mana pool for it.



I agree with the level 1 poison attack as well. I think treads should always be the build on viper though. He benefits a lot more from the attack speed than he does from the damage from phase boots. I carry hard!

Torte de Lini Profile Joined September 2010 Germany 7680 Posts #7037 I tihnk the Phase is more for the movement to stay on top of enemies https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)

Birdie Profile Joined August 2007 New Zealand 1895 Posts Last Edited: 2017-05-31 21:35:50 #7038 Not sure why magic ember has maelstrom removed, it's still a fantastic item and gets picked up all the time.



I suspect with blademail no longer being amplified by magic amp that it will drop off significantly in pickups by pro players on ember and other heroes.



He should also have ring of aquila as core or early game, it's still completely standard to get that. Also needs octarine in extension items, very common to build that too. I would say radiance is one of the rarer extension items, might even need to be in situational rather than extension.



Solar crest might deserve a situational mention as well, but with the nerfs to the item and the relative rarity of it being picked up probably not.



(Possibly I'm missing items from further down as the steamcommunity.com guides don't seem to let me scroll down inside the item build. Still have to enable unsafe scripts to use the web version of the guide, too. Is there a better way to view the guide short of going into the game and selecting the hero?)

nvm using the steam client browser seems to work well.





Naga siren should have mana boots as core and disassembled for BoT and octarine, not sure how easy that is to communicate though. Also, I highly prefer E first on naga, this is how the pros build her too. I max E first but not every pro does that though.



Invoker should level Quas at level 2, and get Wex at level 6. Most pros build it this way, only I think w33ha does Wex level two but he also only gets at most two levels of Quas before maxing Wex, he basically plays Wex Exort rather than Quas Exort. Most pros get the Health talent and the Stats talent, not damage or attack speed.



PL should be getting BoTs basically every game, this item is too good to pass up on for him. Core items should be aghs diffusal, not diffusal manta. Situational should swap echo sabre for SNY or Satanic.



Add a clarity to safelane jugg starting items, super valuable for this hero's mana needs. Also, wand is very important on him because of his bad mana pool. +7 armour right now is the better talent in most games, although of course some games the attack speed is better.



Morphling should have two more branches in his starting items, he can eat with tangos to get +10 tango worth of regen rather than only +8 and the stats are really good early on. Satanic should be in extension items for him. Red classic | A butterfly dreamed he was Zhuangzi | 4.5k, heading to 5k as support!

bdonballer Profile Joined October 2014 United States 408 Posts #7039 ^agree with the pl diffusal into aghs build I carry hard!

Belisarius Profile Joined November 2010 Australia 3334 Posts Last Edited: 2017-06-01 11:24:10 #7040 I'm pretty sure it's aghs diffusal. Aghs is crazy on him. I think you literally go boots (roa) aghs now.



Viper yeah mek is long dead. I think aghs is still okay if there are a couple enemies who hate being gooped. Bulk is bulk even if he's expected to put out more damage these days. He's not really played so it's hard to know for sure.

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