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Premier Jason Kenney says Thursday’s budget will cut program spending by a total of 2.8 per cent over four years.

He expects the civil service will shrink by somewhat less than 10 per cent in the same period, with some layoffs.

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And benefit payments from some programs will be de-indexed — meaning the amounts will stay the same, but payments won’t rise with inflation.

All that came out Wednesday in Kenney’s televised speech to the province, and also in a revealing interview before the TV address.

Kenney wouldn’t reveal the big budget numbers — the size of the deficit, for instance — but he was frank about spending plans.

In the interview, he repeated that health and education are exempt from cuts to operating spending.

And he added: “We’ve also protected spending in the child and community services that deals with the most vulnerable.

“If you add up health and education, plus child and family services and community services, you’re talking about nearly 80 per cent of the provincial budget, which means that the savings have to be found in the other 20 to 25 per cent of the budget.