" Pewzor

I said the penetration on my own attack reflected back to me will carry that penetration characteristic and penetrate my own resist... which people in this thread are arguing that should never happen reflected damage will never penetrate which is wrong.



So the reflected damage WILL penetrate my own resists correct? right... thanks for confirming again. I said the penetration on my own attack reflected back to me will carry that penetration characteristic and penetrate my own resist... which people in this thread are arguing that should never happen reflected damage will never penetrate which is wrong.So the reflected damage WILL penetrate my own resists correct? right... thanks for confirming again.



That's the whole Point we are trying to find out and nobody knows exactly so far.



If you used an elemental penetration gem its penetration never carried over to the reflect dmg you received.



We never had any notable passives that penetrated Resistance until now.



Now we have the situation that we have a passive that grants penetration.



The penetration from gems never got carried over to you you do more dmg to the mob through it. Which of course increases the return dmg but also the potential leech.



Now some people have issues dealing with reflect and what came to mind was the IJ passive.



And if it would work as you theorize would be inconsistent with how penetration + reflect behaved so far.



That's the whole Point we are trying to find out and nobody knows exactly so far.If you used an elemental penetration gem its penetration never carried over to the reflect dmg you received.We never had any notable passives that penetrated Resistance until now.Now we have the situation that we have a passive that grants penetration.The penetration from gems never got carried over to you you do more dmg to the mob through it. Which of course increases the return dmg but also the potential leech.Now some people have issues dealing with reflect and what came to mind was the IJ passive.And if it would work as you theorize would be inconsistent with how penetration + reflect behaved so far. Posted by

Ironmonster

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" Ironmonster " Pewzor

I said the penetration on my own attack reflected back to me will carry that penetration characteristic and penetrate my own resist... which people in this thread are arguing that should never happen reflected damage will never penetrate which is wrong.



So the reflected damage WILL penetrate my own resists correct? right... thanks for confirming again. I said the penetration on my own attack reflected back to me will carry that penetration characteristic and penetrate my own resist... which people in this thread are arguing that should never happen reflected damage will never penetrate which is wrong.So the reflected damage WILL penetrate my own resists correct? right... thanks for confirming again.



That's the whole Point we are trying to find out and nobody knows exactly so far.



If you used an elemental penetration gem its penetration never carried over to the reflect dmg you received.



We never had any notable passives that penetrated Resistance until now.



Now we have the situation that we have a passive that grants penetration.



The penetration from gems never got carried over to you you do more dmg to the mob through it. Which of course increases the return dmg but also the potential leech.



Now some people have issues dealing with reflect and what came to mind was the IJ passive.



And if it would work as you theorize would be inconsistent with how penetration + reflect behaved so far.



That's the whole Point we are trying to find out and nobody knows exactly so far.If you used an elemental penetration gem its penetration never carried over to the reflect dmg you received.We never had any notable passives that penetrated Resistance until now.Now we have the situation that we have a passive that grants penetration.The penetration from gems never got carried over to you you do more dmg to the mob through it. Which of course increases the return dmg but also the potential leech.Now some people have issues dealing with reflect and what came to mind was the IJ passive.And if it would work as you theorize would be inconsistent with how penetration + reflect behaved so far.



Resistance penetration passives are in game since forever, so I am really confused what you are talking about.



Maybe somehow ascendancy talents are being treated differently I don't know but I know for a fact I am taking increased reflect damage now.



Also I am pretty sure penetration always worked with reflected damage even since before ascendancy... I learned this on my supernova witch (since well over a year ago basically) when I run cold penetration gem reflect map becomes very hazardous which in the same map where I took my cold penetration gem out and all of a sudden I barely feel anything coming back at me.



This is also why I made the post concerning reflect damage mechanics before ascendancy even came out talking about this very issue.



Source

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1594297

And ofc people came in linking wiki page doing the same shit like people did in this thread saying reflect damage will never penetrate resist. Resistance penetration passives are in game since forever, so I am really confused what you are talking about.Maybe somehow ascendancy talents are being treated differently I don't know but I know for a fact I am taking increased reflect damage now.Also I am pretty sure penetration always worked with reflected damage even since before ascendancy... I learned this on my supernova witch (since well over a year ago basically) when I run cold penetration gem reflect map becomes very hazardous which in the same map where I took my cold penetration gem out and all of a sudden I barely feel anything coming back at me.This is also why I made the post concerning reflect damage mechanics before ascendancy even came out talking about this very issue.SourceAnd ofc people came in linking wiki page doing the same shit like people did in this thread saying reflect damage will never penetrate resist. The real hardcore PoE players and the elites sit in town and zoning in and out of their hideouts trading items. Noobs that don't know how to play PoE correctly, kill monsters for items. It's pure fact, it will never change.



Welcome to PoE. Last edited by Pewzor on Mar 14, 2016, 2:28:57 PM Posted by

Pewzor

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" Pewzor

You should go back and edit some more of your "reflected damage lose all properties bs" tho. You should go back and edit some more of your "reflected damage lose all properties bs" tho.



Read much? Its all there nothing has been edited out ive only added quotes from mark confirming what ive been saying.



You have 0 proof of whats happening except "LOL WHEN I LINK PEN MY DUDE DIES" and as weve said and ive quoted mark in saying. Reflect is not supposed to carry your on hit effects and penetration is an on hit effect. You take more damage because the enemey has lower resistance and takes more damage. IF it has been working contrary to that then its a bug and needs to be looked into. So far all Dan has said is that the new templar node allows 10% penetration to be reflected back to you which means those other threads your linking are nothing but BS. Read much? Its all there nothing has been edited out ive only added quotes from mark confirming what ive been saying.You have 0 proof of whats happening except "LOL WHEN I LINK PEN MY DUDE DIES" and as weve said and ive quoted mark in saying. Reflect is not supposed to carry your on hit effects and penetration is an on hit effect. You take more damage because the enemey has lower resistance and takes more damage. IF it has been working contrary to that then its a bug and needs to be looked into. So far all Dan has said is that the new templar node allows 10% penetration to be reflected back to you which means those other threads your linking are nothing but BS. IGN:Dethklok

lllllDanziGGlllll - 100 Ranger ~ HOGM

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Old:870532 Posted by

Dethklok

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" Dethklok " Pewzor

You should go back and edit some more of your "reflected damage lose all properties bs" tho. You should go back and edit some more of your "reflected damage lose all properties bs" tho.



Read much? Its all there nothing has been edited out ive only added quotes from mark confirming what ive been saying.



You have 0 proof of whats happening except "LOL WHEN I LINK PEN MY DUDE DIES" and as weve said and ive quoted mark in saying. Reflect is not supposed to carry your on hit effects and penetration is an on hit effect. You take more damage because the enemey has lower resistance and takes more damage. IF it has been working contrary to that then its a bug and needs to be looked into. So far all Dan has said is that the new templar node allows 10% penetration to be reflected back to you which means those other threads your linking are nothing but BS. Read much? Its all there nothing has been edited out ive only added quotes from mark confirming what ive been saying.You have 0 proof of whats happening except "LOL WHEN I LINK PEN MY DUDE DIES" and as weve said and ive quoted mark in saying. Reflect is not supposed to carry your on hit effects and penetration is an on hit effect. You take more damage because the enemey has lower resistance and takes more damage. IF it has been working contrary to that then its a bug and needs to be looked into. So far all Dan has said is that the new templar node allows 10% penetration to be reflected back to you which means those other threads your linking are nothing but BS.



You are so bad lol, my proof is what the GGG said which confirmed my post on Feb 28th in the reflect mechanics thread which I linked above.



Resist penetration carries over to reflected damage and will indeed penetrate your own resist which is the opposite of most people said in this thread (which is wrong btw)... and I hope you went back and edited them out so you don't look too stupid.

You are so bad lol, my proof is what the GGG said which confirmed my post on Feb 28th in the reflect mechanics thread which I linked above.Resist penetration carries over to reflected damage and will indeed penetrate your own resist which is the opposite of most people said in this thread (which is wrong btw)... and I hope you went back and edited them out so you don't look too stupid. The real hardcore PoE players and the elites sit in town and zoning in and out of their hideouts trading items. Noobs that don't know how to play PoE correctly, kill monsters for items. It's pure fact, it will never change.



Welcome to PoE. Last edited by Pewzor on Mar 14, 2016, 2:36:02 PM Posted by

Pewzor

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" Pewzor " Dethklok " Pewzor

You should go back and edit some more of your "reflected damage lose all properties bs" tho. You should go back and edit some more of your "reflected damage lose all properties bs" tho.



Read much? Its all there nothing has been edited out ive only added quotes from mark confirming what ive been saying.



You have 0 proof of whats happening except "LOL WHEN I LINK PEN MY DUDE DIES" and as weve said and ive quoted mark in saying. Reflect is not supposed to carry your on hit effects and penetration is an on hit effect. You take more damage because the enemey has lower resistance and takes more damage. IF it has been working contrary to that then its a bug and needs to be looked into. So far all Dan has said is that the new templar node allows 10% penetration to be reflected back to you which means those other threads your linking are nothing but BS. Read much? Its all there nothing has been edited out ive only added quotes from mark confirming what ive been saying.You have 0 proof of whats happening except "LOL WHEN I LINK PEN MY DUDE DIES" and as weve said and ive quoted mark in saying. Reflect is not supposed to carry your on hit effects and penetration is an on hit effect. You take more damage because the enemey has lower resistance and takes more damage. IF it has been working contrary to that then its a bug and needs to be looked into. So far all Dan has said is that the new templar node allows 10% penetration to be reflected back to you which means those other threads your linking are nothing but BS.



You are so bad lol, my proof is what the GGG said which confirmed my post on Feb 28th in the reflect mechanics thread which I linked above.



Resist penetration carries over to reflected damage and will indeed penetrate your own resist which is the opposite of most people said in this thread (which is wrong btw)... and I hope you went back and edited them out so you don't look too stupid.

You are so bad lol, my proof is what the GGG said which confirmed my post on Feb 28th in the reflect mechanics thread which I linked above.Resist penetration carries over to reflected damage and will indeed penetrate your own resist which is the opposite of most people said in this thread (which is wrong btw)... and I hope you went back and edited them out so you don't look too stupid.



Again all Dan has said is that the Inevitable Judgement node will carry resistance penetration normal penetration can not be reflected according to Mark but keep on ignoring the other game developer quotes in this thread. Again all Dan has said is that the Inevitable Judgement node will carry resistance penetration normal penetration can not be reflected according to Mark but keep on ignoring the other game developer quotes in this thread. IGN:Dethklok

lllllDanziGGlllll - 100 Ranger ~ HOGM

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Old:870532 Posted by

Dethklok

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So... basically resist penetration will get carried over and reduce your own resist correct? yes... ok ty wp gg no re. The real hardcore PoE players and the elites sit in town and zoning in and out of their hideouts trading items. Noobs that don't know how to play PoE correctly, kill monsters for items. It's pure fact, it will never change.



Welcome to PoE. Posted by

Pewzor

on on Quote this Post

" Pewzor So... basically resist penetration will get carried over and reduce your own resist correct? yes... ok ty wp gg no re.





" Mark_GGG Reflected damage cannot (currently) apply any on-hit effects.



" Mark_GGG Penetration is an on-hit effect



Considering you have no proof and Dan hansnt come back to explain the inconsistency your guessing that thats how it works. Also you should stop using the general term penetration when you mean inevitable judgement unless your still arguing that the penetration gem also penetrates your own resists which clearly it dosnt.



Also seeing as your build is CoC discharge your character is dying when you CRIT not when the 10% pen would apply on NON CRIT. If you want to know why you cant survive anymore the answer is in the wiki " "When you reduce enemy resistance you take more damage from reflected damage because the enemy takes more damage overall." Before 2.2 your build didnt use ele penetration at all so any testing you did pre ascendency wasnt accurate of how much damage your actually dealing to enemies. Considering you have no proof and Dan hansnt come back to explain the inconsistency your guessing that thats how it works. Also you should stop using the general term penetration when you mean inevitable judgement unless your still arguing that the penetration gem also penetrates your own resists which clearly it dosnt.Also seeing as your build is CoC discharge your character is dying when you CRIT not when the 10% pen would apply on NON CRIT. If you want to know why you cant survive anymore the answer is in the wikiBefore 2.2 your build didnt use ele penetration at all so any testing you did pre ascendency wasnt accurate of how much damage your actually dealing to enemies. IGN:Dethklok

lllllDanziGGlllll - 100 Ranger ~ HOGM

Mirror Service: View-thread/2479762

Old:870532 Last edited by Dethklok on Mar 14, 2016, 7:22:08 PM Posted by

Dethklok

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What about vinktar's and stuff on the passive tree? IGN: Arlianth

Check out my LA build: 1782214 Posted by

Nephalim

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" Dethklok " Mark_GGG Reflected damage cannot (currently) apply any on-hit effects.



" Mark_GGG Penetration is an on-hit effect These are two different quotes taken out of very different contexts.



Penetration is part of hit calculation. It's "on-hit" in that it can't apply to damage over time, and is part of calculating a hit. It is not an "on-hit effect" in the sense of being a result of hitting something - something applied by the hit - which is what reflect cannot apply.



Dan's post yesterday was based on information from me that penetration applies to reflection. I was wrong about this, and apologise for the confusion caused. The reason penetration cannot apply to reflected damage has nothing to do with it being "on-hit", but is because the way reflection is calculated means your offensive stats can affect whether you take reflected damage (accuracy, block chance reduction, etc), but cannot affect the value of the damage if you do (penetration, ignoring resistance, damage modifiers, etc).



This was confounded by the fact that looking into this yesterday revealed a bug where the 'crit-ness' of the original damage was included in the calculation for reflected damage, however that bug had no actual mechanical effect due to the only two mechanics that use that value are the penetration and resistance ignoring on Inevitable Judgment, and as noted neither of those is able to apply to reflect, as the damage value calculation is not modified by your stats. The bug has been fixed regardless, to prevent it mattering in the future (a theoretical stat for "take 20% increased fire damage from critical strikes" would have applied to reflected damage with the bug in place, for example). These are two different quotes taken out of very different contexts.Penetration is part of hit calculation. It's "on-hit" in that it can't apply to damage over time, and is part of calculating a hit. It is not an "on-hit effect" in the sense of being a result of hitting something - something applied by the hit - which is what reflect cannot apply.Dan's post yesterday was based on information from me that penetration applies to reflection. I was wrong about this, and apologise for the confusion caused. The reason penetration cannot apply to reflected damage has nothing to do with it being "on-hit", but is because the way reflection is calculated means your offensive stats can affect whether you take reflected damage (accuracy, block chance reduction, etc), but cannot affect the value of the damage if you do (penetration, ignoring resistance, damage modifiers, etc).This was confounded by the fact that looking into this yesterday revealed a bug where the 'crit-ness' of the original damage was included in the calculation for reflected damage, however that bug had no actual mechanical effect due to the only two mechanics that use that value are the penetration and resistance ignoring on Inevitable Judgment, and as noted neither of those is able to apply to reflect, as the damage value calculation is not modified by your stats. The bug has been fixed regardless, to prevent it mattering in the future (a theoretical stat for "take 20% increased fire damage from critical strikes" would have applied to reflected damage with the bug in place, for example). Posted by

Mark_GGG

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