Liquid`Snute Profile Blog Joined July 2010 Norway 839 Posts Last Edited: 2012-01-09 14:45:00 #1 [G] ZvP Dual Gold Base vs Forge FE (Baneling Bust Variation)

Note: this is a very sketchy/cheesy build that I'm still experimenting with abit for fun, I don't have many replays yet but I'll upload more as soon as they appear. If you have any replays of this scenario, please post a link and ill put it in the guide ^^ will improve this topic as testing goes on. There are two ways to play: All-in and macro. Macro is very difficult in this scenario, but going on a ling bling allin is much more simple and fun for the whole family. You can also try this out with roaches, for example. More will come!







Somewhere along the road we Zergs forgot that this was what it was all about



_______________________________________________________________________________ Somewhere along the road we Zergs forgot that this was what it was all about_______________________________________________________________________________



Replays



Early experiment on Metalopolis: http://drop.sc/88679



Build order

The build order begins with the traditional speedling expand. The reason why you want to use this opening compared to the more economical pool-hatch variations with delayed gas is because of an exaggerated need for map control and to hide your gold bases for as long as possible. The game itself will be played in two places: the center of the map, and in the Protoss natural. But more importantly, you want to hide that fact for as long as possible.



14gas around 85 minerals.

Note:You can also do a delayed 17gas, but it will be more difficult to kill scouting probes or harass a vulnerable natural.

14pool with first 200 minerals.

Drone to 16 supply

16 overlord

Hold larva and prepare to take drones off of gas.





Pool complete. Research speedling tech and start your first queen.



Overlord pops. Make 4 lings as usual.

Drone

Fake an expansion to your natural. Move the drone down, and pretend like you are about to plant your natural.

Protoss should harass your drone and block your natural expansion at this point. Kill/chase the probe away with your lings, kill any pylon and keep feinting.

20/26 more drones

Probe gone or dead: Send drone to gold base.

Make more drones.

22/26 - Queen pops. Inject. Start second queen.

~23/26 Plant gold base

Send drone to 2nd gold base

Inject complete: Plant creep tumor, inject, move queen to 1st gold base.

~26/26 Plant 2nd gold base.

More drones and overlords

When 1st base at 75/100 - Transfer half of your drones to 1st gold from your main.

When drones arrive at 1st gold, transfer all of your drones to 2nd gold from your main.

Your main has now 0 drones.

New drones pop, Put 3 on gas.

Take 2nd gas in main.

Make drones in main.



Baneling nest with first 50 gas



Add on a few drones in the gold bases. NEVER have more than 16 drones on each gold line, it is oversaturation. Four far patches, two close. (3+3+3+3+2+2 = 16)

Take 3rd gas in 1st gold and 4th gas in 2nd gold.

Add additional queens

Inject, spread creep.

Start lair if you see only zealots or stalkers. You can also plant evo or start lair at a standard timing to be safe against DT rush.

Make a crazy amount of lings and remember overlords





The build order begins with the traditional speedling expand. The reason why you want to use this opening compared to the more economical pool-hatch variations with delayed gas is because of an exaggerated need for map control and to hide your gold bases for as long as possible. The game itself will be played in two places: the center of the map, and in the Protoss natural. But more importantly, you want to hide that fact for as long as possible.Research speedling tech and start your first queen. Defending your gold

Chronoboosted 1gate pressure

Your expansions are very vulnerable to Chronoboosted zealots, double zealots, or the double zealot stalker pressure. It is very important that you scout the front of the Protoss expansion to react accordingly. You will then be able to intercept the zealots with your Speedlings thanks to the early gas. Your bases will rarely be under any threat before the 6 minute mark, but make sure you know what is coming.





If you see chrono shortly after 5 minutes, produce 4-10 additional Zerglings to be safe against early pressure.





+1 Weapons 4-gate pressure

The plus one weapons 4-gate is a very popular push that hits your gold bases from the 8-minute mark and out. If you see a forge spinning from the 5:20-5:50 mark and out, it is likely to be 4-gate pressure. If you see chrono boosts going down on the forge and cybernetics, it increases the likelihood of a 4-gate. The initial four zealots hit your gold bases shortly after the 8-minute mark, so you should plant 1-2 spines in each gold base at 7:10. You will now be safe against any incoming early zealots. Morph 4-6 preemptive banelings to take care of bigger zealot packs. If he commits, use your banelings to soften up the zealots and finish off the rest of the pack. Morph new banelings afterwards.





When this bad boy starts spinning, chill 90 seconds and plant some spines.





Your expansions are very vulnerable to Chronoboosted zealots, double zealots, or the double zealot stalker pressure. It is very important that youof the Protoss expansion to react accordingly. You will then be able to intercept the zealots with your Speedlings thanks to the early gas. Your bases will rarely be under any threat before the 6 minute mark, but make sure you know what is coming.The plus one weapons 4-gate is a very popular push that hits your gold bases from the 8-minute mark and out. If you see a forge spinning from the 5:20-5:50 mark and out, it is likely to be 4-gate pressure. If you see chrono boosts going down on the forge and cybernetics, it increases the likelihood of a 4-gate. The initial four zealots hit your gold bases shortly after the 8-minute mark, so you should plant 1-2 spines in each gold base at 7:10. You will now be safe against any incoming early zealots. Morph 4-6 preemptive banelings to take care of bigger zealot packs. If he commits, use your banelings to soften up the zealots and finish off the rest of the pack. Morph new banelings afterwards. After the defense



Make lings and morph banelings. Constantly inject and remember to have sufficient overlords.

Bust the protoss time and time over again until he breaks.





What does this build leave me with?

- Complete map control early on

- Almost twice the income of Protoss without having to make more drones.

- Increased creep spread from the center of the map instead of from your starting base.

- High-economy low tech play that is safe against every FFE Stargate opener.

- 4 early Zerglings with a really fast speed to harass the Protoss FFE.

- Many queens.

- Constant triple injects.

- Ability to match the Protoss tech while having a superior economy.





The Protoss' expression as he once again realizes that the game is completely broken.



What does this not work against?

- 1base. This build is a response to Forge FE.

- You can also play single gold against 1base, but it can be more difficult.

- I don't know, please write when you lose a game with this.



Why banelings?

Banelings allow you to spend money faster. You don't have to wait for larva to convert resources into army. But that's not the main thing. Baneling busts completely devastate the entire economy in Protoss' natural, forces sentries in the main, and forces him to be defensive. The Protoss player will not be able to continue along his desired tech path, such as colossus, stargate or archon play, as efficiently. More importantly, he can not attack you at all.



But what if he goes for an early push? Roaches are much better at defending, right? Naah. If you take a look at the centre of Metalopolis or Antiga Shipyard, you'll notice it's so wide open that there is no way you can be forcefielded out. Just swarm everything with a ling/bling composition and you'll never be in trouble.



Sure, roaches are good, but with the insane economy you'll be able to utilize so powerful baneling busts over and over again that there is no way Protoss will be able to hold. But who am I kidding, roaches probably work anyway. You can try that out, it's probably very good too.





Who would have thought this was a speedling baneling all-in



Baneling harass

From the time your baneling nest is complete, shortly after the gold expansions are up and running, it is time for some baneling harass!



The natural expansion of Metalopolis is so wide open that you easily can rally small packs of banelings from the surrounding areas and force the protoss to waste his forcefields. Followed up with a baneling bust, there is nothing the Protoss can do. The same thing goes for a Nexus wall on Antiga shipyard. If Protoss decides to wall off at the front, it's even easier to break through with the big bust.





Three young banelings destined for greatness.





Unsuspecting protoss base





Probable result.





When should I try this?

This build is exclusively against Forge FE for Metalopolis, Antiga Shipyard or other maps with a similar layout.



Enjoy! - Complete map control early on- Almost twice the income of Protoss without having to make more drones.- Increased creep spread from the center of the map instead of from your starting base.- High-economy low tech play that is safe against every FFE Stargate opener.- 4 early Zerglings with a really fast speed to harass the Protoss FFE.- Many queens.- Constant triple injects.- Ability to match the Protoss tech while having a superior economy.- 1base. This build is a response to Forge FE.- You can also play single gold against 1base, but it can be more difficult.- I don't know, please write when you lose a game with this.Banelings allow you to spend money faster. You don't have to wait for larva to convert resources into army. But that's not the main thing. Baneling busts completely devastate the entire economy in Protoss' natural, forces sentries in the main, and forces him to be defensive. The Protoss player will not be able to continue along his desired tech path, such as colossus, stargate or archon play, as efficiently. More importantly, he can not attack you at all.But what if he goes for an early push? Roaches are much better at defending, right? Naah. If you take a look at the centre of Metalopolis or Antiga Shipyard, you'll notice it's so wide open that there is no way you can be forcefielded out. Just swarm everything with a ling/bling composition and you'll never be in trouble.Sure, roaches are good, but with the insane economy you'll be able to utilize so powerful baneling busts over and over again that there is no way Protoss will be able to hold. But who am I kidding, roaches probably work anyway. You can try that out, it's probably very good too.From the time your baneling nest is complete, shortly after the gold expansions are up and running, it is time for some baneling harass!The natural expansion of Metalopolis is so wide open that you easily can rally small packs of banelings from the surrounding areas and force the protoss to waste his forcefields. Followed up with a baneling bust, there is nothing the Protoss can do. The same thing goes for a Nexus wall on Antiga shipyard. If Protoss decides to wall off at the front, it's even easier to break through with the big bust.This build is exclusively against Forge FE for Metalopolis, Antiga Shipyard or other maps with a similar layout.Enjoy! Team Liquid

Macpo Profile Joined September 2010 453 Posts Last Edited: 2012-01-09 09:14:51 #2 I dreamt of it... and never dared trying.

Thanks for the idea!

"Courage consists, however, in agreeing to flee rather than live tranquilly and hypocritically in false refuges." G. Deleuze

monk Profile Blog Joined May 2009 United States 8468 Posts #3 You really should try this out a bit more before writing a guide on it. If anything, this should be more of a discussion.

You don't really have anything about how to defend against the various things protoss can throw at you.

Banelings alone without a roach warren isn't really viable to defend against everything protoss can do. For example, it is near impossible to defend a 6 gate allin with ling/bling when you take normal bases, nevermind 2 golds. Also, you will have an insanely hard time holding off +1 4 gate off FFE.

The baneling harass section doesn't really fit into this guide. Moderator

Liquid`Snute Profile Blog Joined July 2010 Norway 839 Posts #4 It is a key tactic in this strategy :\



The baneling nest completes roughly around the same time as a potential 4gate +1 push. At this time you are already running off of triple injects, you can even afford several preemptive spine crawlers.



I've played tons of games against Protoss and ling bling queen is just as viable in open space, especially on creep, as roaches are. But yeah, I'll work on adding more replays, apologize if this guide didn't live up to TL standards T_T Team Liquid

Feos Profile Joined July 2010 Germany 71 Posts #5 what leagues does this work?

i dont think that this is viable. as NrGmonk already said.

i guess the times it works is because the protoss doesnt exactly know how to react and screws up

but ok, i will wait and see when someone tries this against me ^^

oh wait... i vetoed metalopolis because its so zerg favored :< i wonder why...

Liquid`Snute Profile Blog Joined July 2010 Norway 839 Posts #6 The +1 weapons 4-gate (~8:00) is a joke against this build, the income from the gold bases completely demolishes it. The production from the triple hatcheries is too strong, and the more time the protoss player allows you to live, the more his army will weaken because of his linear production. Team Liquid

NicoLoco Profile Joined December 2010 Norway 159 Posts Last Edited: 2012-01-09 09:46:27 #7 On January 09 2012 18:33 Feos wrote:

what leagues does this work?

i dont think that this is viable. as NrGmonk already said.

i guess the times it works is because the protoss doesnt exactly know how to react and screws up

but ok, i will wait and see when someone tries this against me ^^

oh wait... i vetoed metalopolis because its so zerg favored :< i wonder why...



Seeing as



Edit: I like this strategy, because as I see it the timing where Z production kicks in is before any serious pressure can be put your way and you will - if Protoss commits to agression - stand a better chance at defending than if you take a quick 3rd on regular blue minerals.



Isn't a VERY common response to FFE a quick 3rd? The only difference here is that you have to be agressive while taking 3 bases. Seeing as Snute has top 50 MMR on the EU server I'm pretty sure he is talking about it working on a grandmaster level.Edit: I like this strategy, because as I see it the timing where Z production kicks in is before any serious pressure can be put your way and you will - if Protoss commits to agression - stand a better chance at defending than if you take a quick 3rd on regular blue minerals.Isn't a VERY common response to FFE a quick 3rd? The only difference here is that you have to be agressive while taking 3 bases. If I gave a shit you'd be the first to get it!

Skyro Profile Joined May 2010 United States 1512 Posts Last Edited: 2012-01-09 09:42:12 #8 If you take both golds on antiga/metal one of the golds would literally be 2 feet away from a low ground warp-in from the protoss' main. The baneling part might be pretty good on metal but on antiga you can walloff the ramp pretty well. I've held baneling busts on that map w/o sentries by just warping in more buildings behind the ones that get busted over and over.



edit: I sure would like to see some replays though I bet they are hilarious.

Frauk Profile Joined January 2010 Norway 36 Posts #9 i love u guys who actually have no clue what ur talking about saying this wouldnt work.

NicoLoco Profile Joined December 2010 Norway 159 Posts #10 On January 09 2012 18:41 Skyro wrote:

If you take both golds on antiga/metal one of the golds would literally be 2 feet away from a low ground warp-in from the protoss' main. The baneling part might be pretty good on metal but on antiga you can walloff the ramp pretty well. I've held baneling busts on that map w/o sentries by just warping in more buildings behind the ones that get busted over and over.

In this case that is totally fine. As long as you get to mine from the two gold bases you will be able to take a normal 4th/5th base once protoss has spent all his resources on defending his natural.



to OP: I would like to see some more relpays of this aswell. In this case that is totally fine. As long as you get to mine from the two gold bases you will be able to take a normal 4th/5th base once protoss has spent all his resources on defending his natural.to OP: I would like to see some more relpays of this aswell. If I gave a shit you'd be the first to get it!

Markwerf Profile Joined March 2010 Netherlands 3723 Posts #11 meh, golds are not THAT much better then normal bases, especially as takes a damn long time to walk the queen there and maynard drones if neccesary. Quick third base relies on getting ling speed very late but you really can't defend the gold close to the P without the ling speed. On metalopolis you're just too damn close to the P with this, if he scouted the first gold he is already likely to go with 5 gate +1 attack (because you can't stop him from warping in from a pylon on the edge of his main) and with the gold on HIS side that is simply not stoppable.

Banes absolutely suck hard vs zealots early on and +1 zealots murder the lings, any 3 base play needs roach (or on some maps spines) to stop aggression.



Two normal bases and gold third IS a decent strategy on meta and maybe antiga but you need to play it completely different. Use roaches or even hydra's and put on some heavy pressure the moment you got about 10 drones on the gold.

Beastz Profile Joined October 2011 Norway 11 Posts #12 Since when were banelings bad vs zealots? If I could find and kill every terran I lose to, I would do it

Feos Profile Joined July 2010 Germany 71 Posts #13 in this replay the protoss played pretty bad.

he scouted that you had not taken your natural. he suspects youve taken the gold and confirms it later (far later) with a probe only on the far side gold. (so he didnt see the gold the whole game until it was over anyway).

he simply assumed you would take your natural and stood there with a skeleton of a wall. he never even tried to confirm your base at the natural. because of this "wall" he even lost probes to normal ling harass.

his warpgate tech was late and when it finished he had like 3 gates or so.

for some reason he directly went for colossi... he never scoutet your tech. he was totally blind, not knowing your base count or tech.

this guy was grandmaster? really? :<



if the first zealot would confirm this at the xelnaga tower and he would cut probes and thow like 5 or 6 gates down and overrun the gold bases i think there is nothing the zerg can do

as said before... gold bases arent THAT good



ofc it would work for some time like anything new.

Beastz Profile Joined October 2011 Norway 11 Posts Last Edited: 2012-01-09 10:07:24 #14 On January 09 2012 19:03 Feos wrote:



this guy was grandmaster? really? :<







He states the replay was from an early experiment and the guy is 23 Masters league if you actually looked at the site the replay was from, you would know that. He states the replay was from an early experiment and the guy is 23 Masters league if you actually looked at the site the replay was from, you would know that. If I could find and kill every terran I lose to, I would do it

Feos Profile Joined July 2010 Germany 71 Posts #15 nope, there is nothing... maybe because of scriptblock

and how exactly does it matter if it was an early experiment? obviously it worked. its just that his opponent sucked. and against a bad opponent you can do what you want... i remember TLOs placememt matches :<



as i said before... it might even work but once a protoss knows about such a strategy, i believe its quite easily crushed because the zerg is too spread out too early

but i will wait and watch the next replays...

NicoLoco Profile Joined December 2010 Norway 159 Posts #16 On January 09 2012 19:14 Feos wrote:

nope, there is nothing... maybe because of scriptblock

and how exactly does it matter if it was an early experiment? obviously it worked. its just that his opponent sucked. and against a bad opponent you can do what you want... i remember TLOs placememt matches :<



as i said before... it might even work but once a protoss knows about such a strategy, i believe its quite easily crushed because the zerg is too spread out too early

but i will wait and watch the next replays...

agreed about the replays-part. let's wait for some more replays from ladder before we make up our mind. agreed about the replays-part. let's wait for some more replays from ladder before we make up our mind. If I gave a shit you'd be the first to get it!

Nyast Profile Joined November 2010 Belgium 554 Posts #17 On January 09 2012 18:41 Skyro wrote:

If you take both golds on antiga/metal one of the golds would literally be 2 feet away from a low ground warp-in from the protoss' main.



On antiga, a guy who did that build to me put some spines and brought an overlord. Needless to say, warping on the low ground was impossible, I couldn't even put a pylon on the borders of my own main.

On antiga, a guy who did that build to me put some spines and brought an overlord. Needless to say, warping on the low ground was impossible, I couldn't even put a pylon on the borders of my own main.

-Asmodeus- Profile Joined January 2012 Poland 31 Posts #18 That's why i veto Metal and Antiga. Blizzard.

GLLvz Profile Joined April 2011 Norway 121 Posts Last Edited: 2012-01-09 10:45:18 #19 On January 09 2012 18:18 NrGmonk wrote:

You really should try this out a bit more before writing a guide on it. If anything, this should be more of a discussion.

You don't really have anything about how to defend against the various things protoss can throw at you.

Banelings alone without a roach warren isn't really viable to defend against everything protoss can do. For example, it is near impossible to defend a 6 gate allin with ling/bling when you take normal bases, nevermind 2 golds. Also, you will have an insanely hard time holding off +1 4 gate off FFE.

The baneling harass section doesn't really fit into this guide.





Are you kidding me? Blings defend +1 4gate way better then roaches do. Theres noway a Toss can engage up a 3 sided ramp thats extreamly wide and kill it with Spines/Blings at it.

This build is already being used on meta and is by far one of the hardest builds to face as a toss. 6gate allin does not work against this if ur up against a Decent player.



Stop posting useless shit in a thread with no knowledge of the game. and try to contribute to the forum instead of being a douchebag.





The perfect response to this as a toss, is not to overcommit and play the game standard with abit more warp prism play, as his army is going to be out of place. 99% of the time youl win because the toss overcommits.



User was banned for this post. Are you kidding me? Blings defend +1 4gate way better then roaches do. Theres noway a Toss can engage up a 3 sided ramp thats extreamly wide and kill it with Spines/Blings at it.This build is already being used on meta and is by far one of the hardest builds to face as a toss. 6gate allin does not work against this if ur up against a Decent player.Stop posting useless shit in a thread with no knowledge of the game. and try to contribute to the forum instead of being a douchebag.The perfect response to this as a toss, is not to overcommit and play the game standard with abit more warp prism play, as his army is going to be out of place. 99% of the time youl win because the toss overcommits. Lvz

Apoth Profile Joined May 2010 England 194 Posts #20 Holy crap, this build is so much fun! trombonomophonononononononone

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