Sen. Bernie Sanders tells Rachel Maddow that he is going all the way to the Democratic convention, no matter what. "We're moving West where we think the terrain favors us," he said. "to suggest that we don't fight this out to the end would be, I think, a very bad mistake."



He added: "I believe, we have received more votes from people under 30 than Secretary Clinton and Donald Trump combined... I think I am a stronger candidate to defeat Trump than Secretary Clinton is and I think many of the super delegates understand that."





RACHEL MADDOW: You’ve raised so much money and have shown such fundraising prowess. Obviously, you can -- no matter what happens in primaries and caucuses, you can stay in this race indefinitely. You're never going to run out of money. You are right now behind in the delegates. Because you won't have that kind of constraint on your campaign, though, I wonder if you can imagine a scenario in which you're still behind Secretary Clinton in terms of delegates, but you went all the way to the convention this summer and tried to make a case for yourself by persuading the super delegates to support you instead of her. Is that something you can imagine doing that?



BERNIE SANDERS: Well, here’s the scenario: Secretary Clinton has done phenomenally well in the Deep South and she has picked up a whole lot of delegates there. We are now moving beyond the South. We're moving West where we think the terrain favors us. West Coast is probably most progressive region of the United States of America.



We think we have a good shot, can't guarantee it, of winning a whole lot of states, of winning a whole lot of delegates, of perhaps winning California, state of Washington, Oregon, many of the smaller states and winning New York state. We think if we come into the convention in July in Philadelphia, having won a whole lot of delegates, having a whole lot of momentum behind us, and most importantly perhaps being the candidate who is most likely to defeat Donald Trump, we think that some of these super delegates who have now supported Hillary Clinton can come over to us. Rachel, in almost every poll, not every poll, but almost every national matchup poll between Sanders and Trump, Clinton and Trump, we do better than Hillary Clinton and sometimes by large numbers. We get a lot more of the independent vote than she gets. And, frankly and very honestly, I think I am a stronger candidate to defeat Trump than Secretary Clinton is and I think many secretary -- many of the super delegates understand that.

MADDOW: Senator, there were reports today in "The Washington Post" and more pointedly in "The New York Times" that didn't quote President Obama but they described remarks he made apparently at a closed door event on Friday in which he told donors, at least it's reported that he told donors that the Democratic Party needs to start to unite behind a nominee, and in "The New York Times", there was a strong suggestion that the president indicated that he beliefs the nominee will be your opponent, it will be Secretary Clinton.



I know that you consider President Obama to be a friend. I just have to ask your response to that.



SANDERS: Well, I don't want to speculate on what he said or what he didn't say. In fact, I heard there has been some push back from the White House, kind of indicating that he didn't say that.



But the bottom line is that when only half of the American people have participated in the political process, when some of the larger states in this country, people in those states have not yet been able to voice their opinion on who should be the Democratic nominee, I think it's absurd for anybody to suggest that those people not have a right to cast a vote.



I am extremely proud that in state after state we are winning the votes of working people. Overwhelmingly, we're winning young people who are the future of this country.



A study just came out today, I believe, we have received more votes from people under 30 than Secretary Clinton and Donald Trump combined. Many states were winning the votes of people under 45. That is the future of America. That is the future of the Democratic Party.



So to suggest that we don't fight this out to the end would be, I think, a very bad mistake. People want to become engaged in the political process by having a vigorous primary and caucus process.



I think we open up the possibility of having a large voter turnout in November and that is exactly what we need. A low voter turnout, somebody like a Trump can win. High voter turnout the Democratic candidate will win.



I think we have the issues. I think the American people are prepared to vote strongly against Trump. But we need to have a 50-state process by which the American people can -- in which the American people can participate.

Full interview: