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Oleg Yasinsky is a Ukrainian living in Chile for many years. From time to time he speaks to Pressenza about the situation in his homeland.

Mariano Quiroga: Every time we talk, we promise that we’ll speak about more joyful things, that we’ll speak about more interesting processes happening in the world. However, we have to return to the subject of the Ukraine and we have to do so in a moment in which there is great international silence about what’s happening there. Sadly, violence continues in this Eastern European country.

Oleg: Firstly I would like to recall some of what happened in Odessa almost a year ago, on the 2nd of May last year. There was an enormous rally in support of the ultra-right government in the Ukraine, a rally convened by the Kiev government, because this government always has to show who the boss in the country is. So, in Odessa, a marvellous port, a city in which there is a rich mixture of Russian-Ukrainian-Jewish culture and much more; in this very internationalist city came many buses loaded with Ukrainian nationalists from the west of the country and many fans, football hooligans, and idiots from across the country who wanted to make a huge march in support of the government in the centre of the city. In other words, in today’s Ukraine there is no space to be different, no room for “others”. And a small group of Odessa residents went on a counter-rally. This counter-rally was surrounded by a fascist mob. The people had to hide in a multi-storey building. And in this union building, the people were burnt alive by fascists; the building was soaked in petrol, and set on fire. Those who jumped from the windows and fell to the ground, on the pavements, the ultra-right demonstrators killed them there at the entrance to the union building. The authorities did nothing to prevent it, before or after. According to the official statistics there were 42 deaths and dozens of injured. The most serious thing though is that Ukrainian society practically didn’t react, because the government presented the facts as a confused incident that should be investigated. The investigation took one year. The results were that the fire was caused by the wind (the wind was to blame), and nothing else happened. The crime went unpunished. Ukrainian journalism didn’t react either, Ukrainian society didn’t react, and the truth is that this is shameful for the whole country.

Mariano: Yes, I don’t know what is more savage, the incident in itself which is an unbearable brutality, or this climate of impunity and the way in which what happened is hidden. It really makes your hair stand on end, Oleg, to recall this moment, no?

Oleg: Sure. Afterwards there were a lot of comments among the supporters of this government, comments about “barbecued chickens” about “needing to burn the harmful insects,” and this kind of language… It was quite generalised. It reminds me of the work of the “One Thousand Hills Free Radio and Television” station in Rwanda before the slaughter. It’s the same logic, the same look towards other people.

Mariano: Yes, I remember the fear… because one year ago we spoke about this also, the great fear that this would extend, that it would turn into a real “everyone against everyone” in Ukraine. I remember that we signed a statement calling on the Ukrainian people to not fall into that trap. It’s true that the problem continues without resolution, but there hasn’t been a genocide or a fully-fledged persecution, luckily, let’s say. The people of Ukraine managed to not fall into the trap, at least not to those extremes. But the violence does continue in Ukraine. Why don’t the media speak about this? How is the situation today?

Oleg: The violence continues. I think that, ultimately, the Ukrainian people did fall into the trap. The Ukrainian people… I don’t know if we can speak about majorities and minorities, because there is no trustworthy information, there is very little independent press in Ukraine, there are few independent media, there are a lot of rumours like in any country of any Latin-American dictatorship of a few decades ago, but what is happening is that there is a lot of fear, in Odessa there is a lot of fear. I read the comments of commentators and they don’t say what they think about all of this because they know what they’re risking. It’s typical of any dictatorship of the Latin-American ultra-right. I think that in Argentina and in Latin-America, sadly, our people know all too well how this is and how one feels under such regimes. I think that the big official Ukrainian media have been quite efficient, there is great confusion. The people still don’t see how they are, they don’t see who their enemies are, they don’t see who their friends are, there is great confusion, the war continues. In Odessa yesterday and the day before, dozens of family members of the victims of one year ago were arrested, and also the few decent journalists who remain, those who continue to try to resist. And Ukraine is going through the moments of most fear, the biggest in its post-war history. A couple of weeks ago in Kiev, the capital, four people were murdered in 24 hours, three journalists and an opposition politician and this way of acting makes us think that death squads are operating in Ukraine. In the Orwellian language of the Ukrainian Government, these death squads are called “Brigades for Good.” They are ultra-right groups that don’t reveal their names, they are always masked. A website appeared that was called, continuing the same Orwellian line, “The Peacemaker”, the website is sponsored by the Ministry of Defence and the Ministry of the Interior of Ukraine, and on it were published the names, addresses, photos, and telephone numbers of tens of thousands of government opponents.

Mariano: It’s madness, Oleg, what you’re tell us, there’s no way to be able to understand it. It’s as if you were telling us about a science fiction movie about a catastrophic future.

Oleg: And the most incredible, for me, is that there are many people who continue defending this government because they believe the nonsense that Russia invaded Ukraine. And they use the justification that the country is in a state of war, “we need to take these measures against traitors, evil Ukrainians, Kremlin agents,” etc., etc. In Odessa, in Kiev, in other Ukrainian cities there are huge posters with telephone numbers asking the population to turn the separatists in, the suspicious ones, the enemy agents. So, speaking about fascism in power in Ukraine is no exaggeration from what it seems.

Mariano: We’re talking now about Russia, the role of the United States, the role of Russia in this conflict is very important because the United States, somehow, endorses this government and legitimises it in the eyes of the world, and now with what you’re telling us, it seems to be totally absurd. On the other hand, there’s Russia, as the only country that is seriously opposing this Ukrainian government, beyond Russia’s own interests, and beyond the criticism of Putin’s government, that isn’t exactly the most progressive, or the most pro human rights, or the most anything else. But it is the only one that has come out to defend all these victims of persecution. What is the role of Russia today? Can we speak of a certain protection? Can we say that they are exercising vigilance?

Oleg: I’d also like to restate somewhat what I’ve said in the past because when this story just began, I was seeing different reactionary forces clashing on Ukrainian territory, interests of many capitalist, imperialist countries, etc. Now it is more obvious, and I feel that I made a mistake before. Perhaps I criticised Russia too much. Or maybe it’s increasingly clear that Russia is now also the victim of a great provocation, that NATO, and above all the United States, want to turn Ukraine into a launch point against Russia. And Russia is defending itself because Russia has no choice. And it’s also crystal clear that, after what happened in Crimea (which is debatable, I don’t want to deviate our attention, if it’s interesting though we can talk about the Crimean issue). Personally, thinking primarily in human beings, I’m happy for the Crimeans, for the residents of Crimea. I don’t really mind what country they belong to and what passports they have, I am happy that they have saved many lives in Crimea. Because Crimea could be going through the same thing as Donetsk now. But Russia also has its limits. What could Russia do? A military invasion? No, I don’t think so. In this moment, no. But as an element of dissuasion, yes, with military instructors, with military help, with the military technology supporting the independence-seeking east Ukraine, generating a necessary counter weight to the fascist forces that came to power in Kiev. But speaking of fascist forces in power in Kiev, let’s not forget that the majority of the dead are the dead of ordinary people, soldiers fooled by government propaganda, those conscripted by force, those are the ones who died. So, on both sides, in this sense, it’s an absolutely absurd civil war because these ordinary people are killing each other while those responsible are quite far away from the bullets, as usually happens, not only in Ukraine.