Prabhu Chawla By

Senior politician and Rajya Sabha member Amar Singh talks to the New Indian Express Editorial Director Prabhu Chawla about people who betrayed him, his ouster from Samajwadi Party, and Rahul Gandhi’s disposition on Sachchi Baat on News X.

PC: Are you a senior leader or a Rajya Sabha member?

AS: “Waqt ne kiya kya hansee sitam, hum rahe na hum, tum rahe na tum”… — the amazing and unprecedented pace of politics. Sometimes it’s you who is ‘former’, sometimes it’s me.

PC: Are you talking in the capacity of a “former” (general secretary of Samajwadi Party)?

AS: I will be a “former” Member of Parliament soon. My Rajya Sabha term is ending in November.

PC: Life is not the same every day. You were a person who would ensure the victory of 40 people in the party. You would bring the party in power. You fought the elections this time. Had you ever thought you would lose the deposit?

AS: Yes.

PC: Why did you contest?

AS: My job is done.

PC: What job?

AS: I hadn’t asked Congress for a ticket. There was a buzz that I would contest from Gautam Buddha Nagar and Jaya Pradaji from Moradabad. It made headlines. I had requested respected Soniaji to make Jaya Prada contest from Moradabad. I made a formal request for the same to Rahul Gandhi. I am thankful they heard me out. I never asked them for a ticket. I neither lobbied for it. One cannot fight with low spirits. In politics, I helped Mulayam Singh Yadav, served him for 14 years, and I was thrown out like a fly. Then, come to the saving of the government in the nuclear deal debate. We helped the Manmohan Singh Government. Sheila Dikshit was the chief minister of Delhi then. Her prosecutor stands called me “lokshahi ka hathyara”, the murderer of public sprit in the court. I had done nothing wrong. Today, if the people of BJP accuse me of doing the same, I would understand it. But,Sheila Dikshit, who, in the capacity of Delhi’s Chief Minister, was involved with us in saving the government…

PC: Was she part of the conspiracy?

AS: It wasn’t a conspiracy.

PC: Were you working for the country’s well being?

AS: Yes. Arun Jaitley was also working towards the country’s well being.

PC: He wasn’t with you in the nuclear deal. Was he?

AS: Are you being sarcastic? Nuclear Deal is a good deal.

PC: I am talking about saving the government.

AS: The Nuclear Deal wouldn’t have happened had we not saved the government.

PC: What about this year’s election?

AS: I was in low spirits. Helping people doesn’t suit me. When I feed someone, he bites me. I had not asked for (the ticket). I saw my name there. Then, one of Rahul Gandhi’s aides, Bhawar Jitendra Singh Alwar Maharaj came to visit to me. We had a good conversation. Then he told me over a phone call that senior Congress leader Madhusudan Mistry wanted to see me. I went to see Mistryji. He was sitting behind a huge pile of files, his glasses resting on his nose.

PC: Like Einstein...

AS: He offered me tea. He had tea. He asked me if I wanted to contest. I told him that I had never said that I wanted to contest.

PC: It had made headlines by then.

AS: Yes. He asked me if I would like to contest polls. I told him that it was Soniaji’s wish. He had wanted to mend my sagging political health. He wanted to tinker it in his political workshop. I withdrew from there. Then, Bhawar Jitendra Singh Alwar Maharaj called me and told me that there is a long queue for the ticket. He gave me a minute to decide on whether Jaya Pradaji would contest from Moradabad. As for me, he said that I was controversial and topical. He suggested I contest independent, and assured me that they would support me. Well, the fate of the hand (Congress symbol) was unclear. Contesting as an independent candidate was more appropriate. P Chidambram, their finance minister, wasn’t ready to back the hand. The powerful and the mighty were running away from contesting the polls. It was, sort of, a huge favour on us to let me contest from Gautam Buddh Nagar. We were given a minute to decide. Jaya Pradaji and I refused. I had promised to Soniaji that I wouldn’t go back to Samajwadi Party. Going to BJP wasn’t in question. My DNA doesn’t match with the party (BJP). So I looked for a party that was in coordination with Ajit Singh’s party and thought. So that I could tell popular Congress leaders like Bhawar Jitendra Singh that more and more leaders would fall into controversies, but none of the big leaders of Samajwadi Party and BJP would go to campaign against me in the election. Jaya Bachchan campaigned against me. Akhilesh brought her to the front to campaign against me. He is a kid. He is forgiven.

PC: He respects you.

AS: He could. What can you do if your own child respects or disrespects you? Even before the results were out, I had told Sonia Gandhi that I am losing the election and that the Congress is going to lose badly.

PC: Was there a Congress candidate contesting against you?

AS: No. But it so happened that when Rahul Gandhi came to Agra, it was said that I would be part of it. But then, a message from his office said that I don’t have to (be there). Things were grossly mismanaged by his aides. It’s something like, “Yeh mera tareeka to dekho. Yeh mera saleeka to dekho. Sulajh jaati hai jab gutthi, to main uljha diya karta hun (How wonderful is my style! I tangle matters right when they are on the verge of being solved).” There are many people who respect Soniaji. They are not in power. Today, few people would praise her in public. Lekin Rahul Gandhi ke aacharan se, aur unke agal bagal ke logon ke aacharan se Bhagwan bachaye. (God save us from Rahulji’s disposition and the disposition of people around him).

PC: Are you the victim of the Rahul Gandhi durbar?

AS: I am not the victim. I don’t indulge in self pity. I contested the polls when other people were running away. I wanted to prove that I am not controversial. I have not a single remark made on me by Narendra Modi, by Rajnath Singhji, nor by respected Mulayam Singh Yadavji and LK Advaniji.

PC: You had a sour experience. Would you go back to Rahul Gandhi?

AS: Who said that?

PC: You said that “main kaan pakadtaa hun”.

AS: I am appalled with his disposition so far. If I respect Soniaji, how can I disrespect Rahulji?

PC: I am talking in the political sense.

AS: How can you say that? Late Sanjay Gandhi ran a movement against the Janata Party. Ultimately, Chaudhary Charan Singh, who was one of the strongest critics of Indira Gandhi became the prime minister with her help. Nothing can be predicted in politics. I am enjoying this phase in my life. I am happy. I have no enemies. I am not speaking for any party.

PC: What does this mean? Has Amar Singh retired from politics?

AS: You are free to make assumptions.

PC: Who am I to make assumptions?

AS: Vaidikji, from your clan, appears like a mushroom to do politics.

PC: Don’t take me as a big journalist. I am a small man. I can’t meet a Prime Minister or any Hafiz. Hence, forget about me. What is your routine like?

AS: I am trying to meet myself. People and families that surrounded me, have gone out of the sieve. I spend quality time with my daughters Drishti and Disha. I am spending time with my wife. I am studying. I am watching films. I am listening to music. I am looking at the frailties in my profession. I am not sitting idle. I had to spare time to meet you. But people whom I helped, like Mulayam Singh Yadav and the government I helped save..

PC: You are coming back to the Nuclear Deal. You had said that Dr Kalam asked you to do it, so you saved the government. But there was something else in the politics…

AS: Keep digging for more details...

PC: If it was for the nation’s wellbeing, why did you initially oppose it and then support it after three days? Was there an understanding? Did Manmohan Singh call you? Did Sonia Gandhi call you? Did Hillary Clinton call you? You are supposed to be personally close to her.

AS: It is public. I had reached late at the PM’s reception. I was sitting near the door and not on the main table. Dr Karan Singh was seated on my chair. When I reached late, PM arrived there. A senior journalist from a news channel came and sat there. I won’t take her name. PM said that Amar Singh is a nationalist. He made an appeal. The appeal was stated on the PMO’s website. Later, then National Security Advisor MK Narayanan met me. We took all the proposals to Mr Kalam. He said that the nuclear deal is good for the country. We are not the flatterers of Congress. Congress has given us nothing but the country has given us a lot.

PC: I witnessed the incident where you had decided that you won’t let them come to the 272 mark. You had stopped Soniaji from reaching the 272 mark. The decision was made in a snap on a phone call. Was it done for the nation’s well being? Was it a phone call that made you take the decision on the nuclear deal as well?

AS: The decision wasn’t made just like that. Truth can’t be changed. I don’t want to open my mouth. It will reveal many masked faces.

PC: Are you hiding something? You can speak a bit.

AS: Am I a beneficiary? I went to jail. What have I got out of it? I wasn’t made a minister. I wasn’t made the guard. I was sent to the jail.

PC: Did the government you saved send you to jail?

AS: The police and the administration of the same government I helped save chargesheeted me.

PC: Would you like to take names? Are you personally close to Hillary Clinton?

AS: Please understand the difference between an acquaintance and personal relationship. Every person who meets in you in life is an acquaintance. I have no personal relationship with Hillary Clinton.

PC: Bill Clinton used to attend functions.

AS: Today, many powerful industrialists don’t come to the phone line on being contacted. Do I have a personal relationship with them? People whom I considered relations are not with me today. Respected Mulayam Singh Yadavji removed me from Rajya Sabha membership. I am not naming anyone. These people are very poor when it comes to (maintaining) relations. You are talking about relations. What has Hillary Clinton not said about Obama? What has Obama not said about Hillary Clinton? What matters in this materialistic world is relevance—your utility.

PC: Do you mean that people have been dumping you because you lost utility?

AS: They have not being dumping me. They have dumped me.

PC: What did they think? Were you a liability?

AS: There was a Noida industrialist. After coming to me, he went to Mulayam Singh Yadav for favours. Mulayam Singhji told him that he wasn’t loyal to me. So he couldn’t be loyal to him. So, he went to Amit Shah’s son’s wedding. And Harshvardhanji went to a reception hosted by him. He is now flaunting the pictures around and saying that he is the youthful centre of attraction, buzzing over the juicy lot of flowers.

PC: What lessons have you learned since you came back from Singapore after your illness?

AS: I have learned that the most dangerous species in the world is man.

PC: Should you stay away from man or from people you call friends?

AS: Look at the biggest family in India. Rahul and Varun Gandhi are brothers. Soniaji and Manekaji are daughters-in-law from the same family. Look at the mother and son — Rajmata Scindia and Late Madhav Rao Scindiaji — all for wealth and name. It reminds me of a poem of well-known poet Neeraj.

PC: I know of many people who lined-up in your support earlier. Who gave you the biggest and the most unexpected betrayal?

AS: I won’t take names.

PC: Why?

AS: Jaya Bachchan.

PC: Did she betray you the most?

AS: No. I got betrayed.

PC: You trusted her.

AS: It’s not her fault. It’s mine. Too much of sweetness – diabetes and too much of salt leads to high blood pressure. If you give a family outside your own a lot of support, going out of your capacity, you would have to bear the consequences. I had taken the relationship to an extreme. They are not at fault. I am. I ask the Bachchan family for forgiveness. They are big people.

PC: Who is that one person or woman who has stood for you during the bad times?

AS: Jaya Pradaji.

PC: She stood with you politically. Did she suffer for it?

AS: Definitely. The other person is Rajnathji (Singh). When I was jailed, he called my wife several times and asked if she needs money. Thankfully, the need for money didn’t arise. It wasn’t because he was powerful. He empathised with us. It was a great gesture. I will be indebted to him for this. We may have ideological differences. But I consider him a great man.

PC: Who is the other person?

AS: Sonia Gandhiji. She empathised with my family and showed a lot of kindness towards my wife and my children. It doesn’t matter what P Chidambram did. It doesn’t matter that senior Congress leader Salman Khurshid asked my wife to use the back door instead. I have no ill feelings towards him. That’s his DNA.

PC: Shouldn’t Sonia Gandhi have been at the door?

AS: You will say that Mulayam Singh was with me. Samajwadi Party is a small party. He would say that he was always with Amar Singh. It was the party that went against Amar Singh. Soniaji can say the same. She has shown personal support, if not political. There are people like Suman Dubey. Her personal contacts are different from her political contacts.

PC: Do you regret leaving Samajwadi Party?

AS: Speak the truth. I didn’t leave the party. I was thrown out of it. I know you are Mulayam Singhji’s friend. He is my big brother.

PC: Will you go back if you are called?

AS: They wouldn’t have thrown me out in the first place. Why would they call me back?

PC: Do you have hopes?

AS: Forget hope. I don’t have the will (to go back).

PC: Does it mean that you are not returning to the Samajwadi Party but you will make a come-back in politics? Are you ideologically close to the BJP or Congress?

AS: They are stuffing rotis in the month of Ramzan. My friend Togadia is saying that Muzaffarnagar riots should be forgotten. I respect Narendrabhai (Modi).

PC: Had you expected him to win with such huge margins?

AS: I had said before the polls that no one can defeat him. They said that I am eager to join the BJP. At Hemaji ‘s (Malini) daughter’s wedding, we had a good one-to-one meeting. I had told him that he would win but our views don’t meet. I respect him for his personal qualities. I used to say it before he became the Prime Minister. And I say it today. My stand hasn’t changed.

PC: What is your future?

AS: I am unaware. Kabhi khud pe, kabhi haalaat pe ronaa aayaa. Baat nikli to, hare k baat pe rona aaya...

PC: Thanks for coming to our studio.

AS: Thanks.