Adam talks with Welsh journalist, screenwriter and film maker Jon Ronson (‘So You’ve Been Publicly Shamed’, ‘The Psychopath Test’, ‘The Men Who Stare At Goats’, co writer of the films ‘Frank’ & ‘Okja’) about, amongst other things, his recent audio series ’The Butterfly Effect’ in which Jon meets people affected in a variety of surprising ways by the spread of free internet pornography.





As Jon himself says of ‘The Butterfly Effect’: “It's sad, funny, moving and totally unlike some other nonfiction stories about porn - because it isn't judgmental or salacious. It's human and sweet and strange and lovely.”





But are there times when being judgmental serves a useful purpose, even if it’s annoying, hurtful or in the context of pornography, hypocritical? That isn’t just a random rhetorical question - it does actually get discussed in the podcast.





Jon also tells Adam about meeting British columnist and provocateur Katie Hopkins, considers the case for declaring Donald Trump mentally ill and shares a few podcast recommendations.





Thanks to Séamus Murphy-Mitchell for production support and Jack Bushell for additional editing.





Music & jingles by Adam Buxton

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