RACHEL MADDOW, MSNBC HOST: Joining us now for the interview tonight, live from Underwood, Iowa, is Bernie Sanders -- the independent senator from Vermont, contender for the Democratic presidential nomination.



Senator Sanders, it’s great to see you. Thanks very much for being with us tonight.



SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: My pleasure.



MADDOW: Senator, I want to talk with you about Flint, Michigan. I want to talk with you about some of what's going on between you and Secretary Clinton in the race right now. We're going to get to that.



But there is -- a couple of other things have just happened on the campaign trail today that I'd just like to get your reaction too to first if you don't mind. The first one is this very sad news from the Ben Carson campaign that one of Ben Carson's volunteers was killed in a car crash today on an icy road in Iowa.



I just wanted to know if you've reached out to Dr. Carson or if you have any thoughts on that today.



SANDERS: Well, actually, Rachel, I’m right now in Sioux City, Iowa. We just had a rally here.



One of the first things I did do is mention the fact that a young man, a volunteer who works for Dr. Carson died on the roads here, very slippery roads here in Iowa. And, you know, clearly, Dr. Carson and I don't have much in common politically. But the fact is when you have kids getting involved in the political process, doing their best to elect the candidates of their choice, that's what the American democracy is about.



So, we issued a statement and I will call up Dr. Carson to send our condolences. You know, when it's just a tragedy that a young man involved in volunteering at a political campaign should lose his life.



MADDOW: Yes, a 25-year-old man. That's very sad.



Senator, you called a few days ago for Michigan Governor Rick Snyder to resign over the lead poisoning of Flint. He gave his State of the State speech tonight in Michigan, talked about Flint at length it was h. He was emotional at times.



He's clearly taking, you know, significant responsibility for that. He said tonight he won't stop working on this mess until it is fixed.



Do you still stand by your call for him to resign? Do you think he is not the man to fix this problem?



SANDERS: But, Rachel, you know, I don't go around every other day calling for governors to resign. I don’t think I ever have. And I heard Governor Snyder in your report talk about his prayers for the people of Flint and that's fine.



But the truth is, this is one of the worst public health crises in modern American history. We don't know the full extent of the crisis. We know that thousands of children and others have been poisoned. We don't know how many will end up with brain damage.



But clearly, this is a horrific, horrific public health crisis. And I think that in terms of the governor's office, there has been a real dereliction of duty. I think it's not good enough to be talking about prayers. It's important to say, listen, we certainly didn't mean to do that, but we screwed up terribly and people will be paying the price for this for their entire lives, how many we don't know, and the right thing in my view to do is to resign.



MADDOW: You brought up the subject of Flint without being asked about it in the last debate as did Secretary Clinton. You both mentioned it at the end of the debates. It was very large reaction from the crowd when you did that. This is obviously something that moves people.



And I think in general the debates have been really illuminating and have brought forward a lot of things that people necessarily didn’t expect. They've been spontaneous and they’ve really moved the campaign forward. That's just my perception as an observer.



You have been loudly critical of the Democratic Party's debate schedule in this primary. The last three debates for the Democratic side have been on weeks. There are no more scheduled Democratic debates before Iowa or New Hampshire. In contrast, the Republicans have another one next week and then they’ve got another one before New Hampshire.



Is this lack of debates on the Democratic side and hiding them in these obscure places in the schedule, is it a big enough problem that you and the other candidates might revolt and try to at least get another one scheduled?



SANDERS: Well, look, you know, when the Republicans do primetime debates they get 20 million, 25 million people watching it. When we have debates, the one here in Iowa was literally on the night of a huge football game. It was Iowa State versus the University of Iowa. Probably the worst time that you could possibly schedule a debate.



If we want to win in November, it is important that the American people hear our ideas. And debates are one way that millions of people can hear our ideas and hear the differences between the candidates.



So, I think we have got to do a lot better than that.



But, by the way, when I talk about the Democratic Party and leadership, it is not just debate scheduling. We need, Rachel, a 50-state strategy.



I was just in Alabama yesterday. The problems facing the African-American community in cities like Birmingham, Alabama, are mind-blowing. We don't talk about it. What I learned was incredible. I mean, you've got what they call a 21st century Jim Crow.



The Alabama Democratic Party as well as many other Democratic Parties around the country have been written off by the Democratic leadership. Somebody there told me they got a check for $5,000. That's crazy stuff.



We need to defend working people and we need to defend people of color in 50 states in this country.



And one of the points that I made yesterday in Alabama that if elected president, we are going to have a 50-state strategy. We are going to bring new people, new energy, working people, young people, into the political process. That's what this campaign is doing, and that's what I will do as president.



The way Republicans win election is when people get demoralized, when people give up on the political process and when we have low voter turnouts.



So, yes, the scheduling for the debates has been a disaster. We should be ashamed. As a Democratic party that voter turnouts are so low. We have got to reignite energy in this country and get people excited about the political process.



And when we have large voter turnouts as I think our campaign can bring about, we're not going to only -- not only will we win -- regain the presidency, we're going to retake the Senate, do very well in the House and in governors’ races around the country.



MADDOW: Senator, I’m going to press you on this one part of it and it’s not because I’m trying to foment any sort of revolt here. I’m really not. But I’m trying to follow on what you said.



And thinking about in particular those Democratic polities in those Deep South states so many of which are going to be voting early this year, they’re going to be voting on March 1st when there’s a lot of Southern states are very early in the process because of the way the primary calendar has been changed up this year.



Given that you feel like in particular southern states aren't getting their due from the Democratic Party, given that you feel like the Democratic Party screwed up in the way they scheduled these debates, given that you said from the very beginning that there ought to be more of these debates, I feel like the candidates are sort of more important in this process than the party is, do you and Governor O'Malley and Secretary Clinton -- do you envisage the three of you getting together and telling the party to stuff it and doing it the way that I’ve heard all three of you articulate you’d rather do it?



SANDERS: Well, count me in as one person -- you know, if Secretary Clinton and Governor O’Malley want to do it, I’m there.



I love debates. I think they are a way to inform the American people of our positions and our differences. So, I think that is a great idea. So, I’m in. If the other candidates are in, you count me in.



MADDOW: I’m never the one who starts these things but I feel like I might be starting something here.



Senator, let me ask you about another issue in terms of the way the campaign is going forward. Your policies on issues like gay rights and reproductive choice are very consistent. They should be very attractive to progressive groups. But there’s been a series of high profile endorsements of groups like Planned Parenthood and NARAL, they’ve gone out of their way to make very early endorsements for Secretary Clinton. Just today, Human Rights Campaign, the gay rights group, announced their Clinton endorsement.



Are you competing for those groups’ endorsements and not getting them, or are you not trying to get them?



SANDERS: Look -- no, Rachel, I would love to have the endorsement of every progressive organization in America. We’re very proud to have received recently the endorsement of MoveOn.org. We've received the endorsement Democracy for America. These are grassroots organizations representing millions of workers.



What we are doing in this campaign, it just blows my mind every day because I see it clearly, we’re taking on not only Wall Street and economic establishment, we’re taking on the political establishment.



So, I have friends and supporters in the Human Rights Fund and Planned Parenthood. But, you know what? Hillary Clinton has been around there for a very, very long time. Some of these groups are, in fact, part of the establishment.



I will challenge anybody with regard to my record on LGBT issues. You know, I was one of the few, relatively few to oppose and vote against DOMA, et cetera. In terms of women's rights, I believe we have a 100 percent life-time pro-choice record. But, you know, that's what happens in politics.



Look, I’m going to do well and hopefully win, not because of the establishment support. What we are going to do well at and what we are doing well at is rallying the grassroots of this country.



We've been going all over the country, having just huge turnouts of people coming to our rallies. We have two and half million individual campaign contributions, more than any campaign in history.



So, Rachel, I can see -- you know, I’m not going to get establishment support. I’m not going to get the support of the governors and the senators, with few exceptions, and many of the major organizations.



But the reason that we are doing so well, why we're ahead now I believe in New Hampshire, why we're closing the gap in Iowa, why we're gaining, why we are gaining in Nevada and South Carolina, and why we're doing better and better all over the country is not from the establishment. It is from the grassroots of America.