Payne Lindsey: 00:30 From Tenderfoot TV in Atlanta, this is Up and Vanished. I'm your host Payne Lindsey. Just kidding. There's no scratchy-sounding phone calls in today's episode. We heard you loud and clear. Due to poor cell phone reception in Saguache County, Colorado, a majority of the phone calls in last week's episode were hard to hear. But a lot of these calls were very important, so in today's episode, we're going to do something we've never really done before in a main episode of Up and Vanished. We're going to pump the brakes a little bit and do an official recap of everything we've learned so far — the people, the places, the important pieces of evidence, the timeline — and we're going to play for you the new and improved reenactments of the phone calls from episode six, so you won't miss a word.

Payne Lindsey: 01:11 We have officially reached that point in Up and Vanished where you as a listener are almost exactly where we are. In fact, things are developing so fast at this point that we almost had no choice but to slow down for a second. Kristal Reisinger's case was cold just a month ago, and now the whole town is talking. Literally every day our team is down a new rabbit hole. In the community, Kristal's family, and even the persons of interest in this case are all reacting to this podcast in real time, and we're capturing all of it. Because we are doing this in real time, there's some things we just can't tell you yet. It will all make much more sense very soon, and there will be an ending to this story.

Payne Lindsey: 01:46 Today, I want to go back over some of the most important pieces to the puzzle in Kristal Reisinger's disappearance. Over the next half of the season, people's names, the timeline, and who said what all become extremely crucial to solving this case. Let's start with the people who are closest to Kristal — her family support system here in Denver. By now, we all know who Rodney is, the father figure in Kristal's life.

Rodney: 02:09 It warms my heart that you're even considering this, that you're doing this. I hope we can get the people and find Kristal before I die.

Payne Lindsey: 02:20 And then there's Amy, Rodney's daughter and, essentially, Kristal's sister.

Amy: 02:24 You don't meet many people like that who have this intense, cool, crazy energy that everybody vibes with, and it's just ... I don't know. She laughs a lot. She laughs at everything, even if it's kind of a fucked up thing to laugh about, she'll laugh about it anyways.

Payne Lindsey: 02:41 And there's Eli, Kristal's ex-boyfriend from when she lived in Denver, also the father of their daughter, Akasha.

Eli: 02:47 My first impression was like, "Where were you my whole life?" She was very sweet, very intelligent, very deep thinker. Covered in tattoos, piercings, different looking, kind of wild-looking person. That's my type of girl.

Payne Lindsey: 03:01 And then Angela, one of the mother figures in Kristal's life.

Angela: 03:04 Kristal, even with everything that she had been through in her life, she was still a happy, bubbly person.

Payne Lindsey: 03:14 And her son Mikey, AKA Rufio.

Mikey: 03:16 We met at a house party. I was 18, she was 18. At the party, she's like, "You have an eyebrow ring, and I have an eyebrow ring. That is neat. We're going to be friends." And then after that, we just became best friends.

Payne Lindsey: 03:30 And then Phoebe, Kristal's friend, a medium and tarot card guru.

Phoebe: 03:35 Anybody interested in looking into themselves?

Meredith S.: 03:38 How much does it look into us?

Phoebe: 03:40 Anything that you need to see.

Payne Lindsey: 03:41 And then there's Chris Halsne from FOX31 news in Denver. He's become a prominent voice in our podcast and continues to investigate this case alongside us.

Chris Halsne: 03:49 You've seen photos of her and video of her. She's hard to miss. I mean, there's no way you wouldn't know Kristal if you were from Crestone.

Payne Lindsey: 04:00 And of course, there's Akasha, Kristal's five-year-old daughter.

Akasha: 04:04 Put this in your pocket, so I can save it for later.

Eli: 04:04 Okay, okay, enough, babe. No more, honey girl.

Akasha: 04:04 Put them in your pocket, so I can save them for later.

Eli: 04:12 Bless you, babe.

Payne Lindsey: 04:17 Bless you.

Payne Lindsey: 04:17 When we first started, it took a while to track down all the important people in Kristal's life. One, they were all over the place geographically. And then when we finally found them, everyone seemed a bit disconnected when it came to the information in the case. But over the past few months, everyone and everything is aligning. Those closest to Kristal are banning together, and they're showing fierce determination. If you're someone out there with a secret, and you're hearing this right now, I'd be scared. Not of the podcast, not of me, but this powerful force that's brewing, that we'll do whatever it takes to find Kristal. As we get closer to the truth, this story becomes much darker than I ever imagined. But Kristal's family is prepared for the worst and will stop at nothing to bring justice to those responsible for her murder. Now let's go over the interesting people we've met in Crestone, many of whom knew Kristal. There's David, who helps run the drum circles.

David: 05:42 Did she leave there and go back to town? See, that, I have no idea if she left or if she's still up in the woods in one of the caves or something up above the drum circle.

Payne Lindsey: 05:53 Then there's Ara, Kristal's landlord.

Ara: 05:55 We found her phone, her bag, her tobacco. The window was open. The fan was on in the window. Some of the lights were still on. It looked like she had just left and had every intention of coming back. I was doing more investigating into her disappearance than the cops did.

Payne Lindsey: 06:14 Kristal's neighbor, Jeremy.

Jeremy: 06:16 I don't know, I have weird feelings about it. It's very strange how she just disappeared. I personally think that somebody had something to do with it, and we just don't know. I mean, that's just my personal gut feeling.

Payne Lindsey: 06:26 Then there's the Crestone boyfriend, who will go unnamed.

Crestone BF: 06:29 There's definitely a lot of stuff that people are saying that it's kind of misleading information, like the drum circle. I was at the drum circle, I never saw her.

Payne Lindsey: 06:40 The Saguache County sheriff, Dan Warwick.

Dan Warwick: 06:42 We do have, I'm going to say the trust fund kids and things like that that have come up here that are not responsible, that mommy and daddy didn't want them around them because they're such a pain in their ass, so they send them down here for everybody else to deal with.

Payne Lindsey: 06:57 Then there's Deputy Wayne Clark, whom, according to Sheriff Dan Warwick, has been the official agent in charge of Kristal's case for a few years now. I've never interviewed Wayne Clark directly, but he's made a few appearances you may remember.

Wayne Clark: 07:08 There's a list of possibilities. Anytime they find anybody or anything that's unidentified, they'll call everybody else just to check. That wasn't her at all. It was someone up in Boulder.

Payne Lindsey: 07:20 Oh, yeah. And don't forget Roy.

Roy: 07:22 It's called the tongue drum. A guy here makes it. They're ends of propane tanks, and he welds them together, and there's little cut slits that ...

Payne Lindsey: 07:32 Now that we're caught up in all the different people in this story, let's go over the timeline.

Rob: 07:47 In the summer of 2016, Kristal was 29 years old. In late June, around June 19th, Kristal was in Denver. She was visiting Eli, who was recovering from being mugged and beaten. She texted Debbie, Rodney's wife, that she was back in Crestone on June 22nd. Kristal's Crestone boyfriend says Kristal was sexually assaulted at Catfish's house on June 28th. He stated that she told him this and was very shaken by it. Around this date, she told the same thing to landlord Ara McDonald when Ara went to collect Kristal's rent. Catfish posted a heart on Kristal's Facebook page on June 28th as well.

Rob: 08:35 Kristal's Crestone boyfriend says he last saw Kristal around July 12th. They got in an argument at her apartment, and he left. Around July 12th, Kristal also bought groceries. July 14th was Kristal's last post on Facebook. It was the result of a Facebook quiz, one that you can share with your friends. Landlord Ara McDonald said that Kristal posted on Facebook regularly, at least every other day.

Rob: 09:02 July 18th was the eve of the full moon, when the drum circle took place. July 21st is Catfish's birthday. According to the police report, this was around the last time he saw Kristal. Catfish stated that some time around his birthday, she came over to smoke weed, drink wine, and watch movies. He also stated he did not know her very well.

Rob: 09:29 July 30th, landlord Ara McDonald files a police report. Deputy Tyler Harford does the report. Deputy Harford talks to Kristal's neighbor Jeremy Sharpe, searches Kristal's apartment and her phone, which is still in the apartment. Around this time, Eli posts on Facebook that he hasn't heard from Kristal since July 14th, which was highly unusual. August 2nd, Deputy Wayne Clark searches Kristal's apartment. And on August 16th, the police case report is entered with Kristal's description and information. Weeks after Kristal went missing, Eli and Rodney go to Crestone to talk to police and search for Kristal.

Payne Lindsey: 10:19 Catfish. We've heard that name a lot in this case from all kinds of people.

Rob: 10:24 John goes by the nickname Catfish.

Phoebe: 10:27 Mama said, "Don't go down to the river, and stay away from Catfish John."

Amy: 10:32 That's a bad nickname, man. Every time I repost anything about Kristal, Catfish tries to come and friend me, so he's watching.

Rob: 10:41 John stated that around his birthday, that Kristal had come over to his house. He stated that they drank wine, smoked marijuana, and watched movies. John said that he fell asleep as she was leaving. John said that he did not know Kristal that well and had no idea where she might go.

Eli: 11:00 He was just fucking with her head, like telling her that she was dead and that ... She thought she might've gotten raped. She told me that he held her there and he wouldn't let her leave. He took apart her phone. She told me she was held there against her will. Once I started poking around and trying to figure out what happened to her, I figured out that she went back to Catfish's.

Payne Lindsey: 11:24 Deputy Wayne Clark of the Saguache County Sheriff's Department questioned Catfish on August 10th, 2016 after allegedly hearing his name on social media in relation to Kristal's disappearance. Perhaps the most interesting thing about this person, besides his weird nickname, is when he said he last saw Kristal. He said it was, quote, "around his birthday," but his birthday is July 21st. By almost all accounts, the last time that Kristal was seen or heard from was around July 13th.

Chris Halsne: 11:54 Then one day around July 13th, 2016, after attending a drum circle festival, she vanished.

Eli: 12:03 I'm thinking the 13th is definitely the day she's last seen by anybody.

Rodney: 12:10 The 13th-

Payne Lindsey: 12:12 Do you know if that was the drum circle night or no?-

Rodney: 12:16 I'm thinking that that was the drum circle night.

Payne Lindsey: 12:20 The drum circle was mentioned a lot in the beginning. It was even mentioned in the FOX31 news report done by Chris Halsne.

Chris Halsne: 12:26 The drum circles were well attended. It went all night. There was somebody in town who was questioning how she could arrive with people at the drum circle, and nobody associate that other person with them and can't remember what they look like and when and where she left.

Rodney: 12:43 Last time she was seen on the 13th, after the drum circle, but if the drum circle is on the 18th, so if it was July 18th-

Amy: 12:52 So that doesn't add up at all because everybody says the 13th.

Rodney: 12:54 And people are saying last time she was seen on the 13th. Yeah, there's a lot of stuff here to weed through.

Payne Lindsey: 13:02 At this point, I personally think the whole drum circle theory to begin with was a rumor that was spread around intentionally to throw everyone off. Okay, so back to Catfish. The drum circle in July 2016 most likely occurred on July 18th going into the wee hours of the morning of July 19th, the day of the full moon. So let's say for a second that Kristal did go to that drum circle. That would mean that on July 13th, Kristal essentially drops off the face of the earth, doesn't respond to any calls or texts, nobody in town sees or hears from here at all, and then all of a sudden she reemerges almost a week later, the night of the drum circle, by herself, and then disappears into the night. Sounds a little crazy, right?

Payne Lindsey: 13:44 What's crazier is someone alleging to have seen her after the drum circle, and right now, the only person doing that is Catfish. He says he saw her around his birthday, July 21st. It's kind of vague, so you have to think, "Well, what does 'around my birthday' mean? Like within 24 hours or a few days?" So maybe he can mean something like July 18th or July 19th, around the drum circle. But playing devil's advocate here, it could also mean something like July 23rd or 24th. That's still around his birthday, within a few days. Either way, it stands out to me.

Payne Lindsey: 14:19 And if it were ever definitively proven that Kristal did not attend the drum circle in July 2016, which seems likely, then this is huge. My personal opinion, Kristal never went to the drum circle in July. Something happened to her around July 13th or 14th.

Payne Lindsey: 14:35 What else do we know about Catfish? In the podcast thus far, we've only gathered hearsay. Over the past few weeks, we've been doing some more digging. We've learned that Catfish is the son of a very wealthy family, a family that has been in Crestone for decades now. His family also owns a few spiritual centers there. Catfish is 40 years old. He's been hanging around Crestone since his early 20s, and in that time, he's garnered quite the reputation there. Different oddities surrounding Catfish continue to emerge, and until we find Kristal, for me personally, he'll remain on my radar.

Payne Lindsey: 15:21 Okay, moving on. The next guy I want to talk about is Brian. Yes, there's that sound again. Brian is also known as Dready Brian or Dready B. I know this may be a little confusing, but the easiest way to remember it is that he's the only Brian in this story, at least thus far. What do we know about Dready Brian? Well ...

Angela: 15:41 He's the one that ended up bringing her to Crestone. He ended up crashing her car, and Kristal was very upset about that, and they had a falling out.

Rodney: 15:52 She had filed suit again Brian back in '14. He had wrecked her car, and she sued him to get the money.

Eli: 16:06 But he had asked her to borrow the car to pick up his kid or somebody, and I guess he wrecked it and then left her high and dry.

Cindy Santi: 16:09 She was hanging out with Tall Brian, okay? And there was some other guys. Brian showed up, and he said to me, "You need to call Kristal. She's very upset. I totaled her car." He thought it was real funny that he totaled her car. He totaled her car out there in the Baca, kind of on a straightaway. I mean, you had to work hard to do it. And she says, "I think he did it on purpose." She filed a police report. She ended up taking him to court. She never got paid.

Eli: 16:38 Brian's the one who brought Kristal to Crestone in the first place. They met each other in Gunnison. He totals her car. They were friends and stuff, but she really didn't like him. But I've heard Brian killed or something. This is stuff that I heard from other people. I don't know if it's true, but ... He was staying at my house and shit, dude, after she went missing. If he did have something to do with it, that's pretty fucked up. I mean, he knew Kristal probably just as well as I did.

Payne Lindsey: 17:12 We know that Brian had known Kristal for a few years before she went missing. They met in the nearby town of Gunnison, and it was actually Dready Brian who first brought Kristal to Crestone. In 2014, Brian wrecked Kristal's car and totaled it. Apparently, after that incident, their friendship became a little rocky. I've reached out to Brian several times, but he hasn't responded. I did, however, get my hands on an audio recording of Brian shortly after Kristal went missing, which I played at the end of episode six. Because of the awful cell phone reception in Crestone and the Baca, his call, like some of the others, was often difficult to understand. So I had a voice actor go in and recreate it. I'm going to replay part of that call for you now. Let's listen for a second.

Dready Brian: 17:54 I know this is not like her for sure. The last time I actually saw her was, jeez, it was like a little over a month ago. But I think just like two and a half weeks ago or whatever at the last drum circle, I think I was there, I could swear I heard her singing. I was just drumming for six hours straight, drinking and smoking. I don't remember a whole lot about the evening except the drumming, but I could have swore I heard her voice.

Payne Lindsey: 18:22 Brian said that he thinks Kristal was at the July drum circle, but he didn't see her.

Dready Brian: 18:27 That's the last, jeez, I guess the last drum circle was two and a half weeks ago. And before that, it was like six weeks ago. But the last time I talked to her, there was a day after the full moon, the full moon before that, it was the day after that.

Payne Lindsey: 18:44 Then he goes on to say it was the drum circle before that. Well, which one was it?

Dready Brian: 18:49 She called me on the street. She was up in her apartment there, and she's like, "Hey, Brian, I think Catfish put some fucked up shit on Facebook about you." You know what I mean? Because we had an argument and got ... I did some work in the house, and he didn't pay me for it. She's like, "I was over there," and she told me ... She said she didn't remember, but she said she thought he might have drugged her or something. She had to clean his house, too, and that was the last conversation I had with her, but I could have swore she was at the last drum circle.

Payne Lindsey: 19:32 More notably, it seemed that Brian made a point to tell the person on the phone that he did not know Kristal that well.

Dready Brian: 19:38 We weren't super close. I wouldn't know where her specific spots would be, you know what I mean?

Payne Lindsey: 19:43 But as we know, that can't be true. He crashed her car two years earlier. And before that, they were friends in Gunnison. He even watched her daughter, Akasha.

Payne Lindsey: 19:55 Up until episode six last week, there's only been two persons of interest here: Catfish and Dready Brian. But then, a few more players emerged, and I gave them all nicknames: Calvin, Landon, and Jack. Basically, all these guys know each other. From what I found, they've had varying degrees of friendship, but regardless of who's friends with who, at one time or another, they all ran in the same circle in Crestone, a very small circle.

Payne Lindsey: 20:23 Let's start with Calvin. Calvin seemed to have the most credible knowledge when it came to Kristal and what may have happened to her. Like the other phone calls, some of his conversation was hard to understand, so we recreated the most important parts.

Calvin: 20:40 My knowledge is limited, the ones who I guess were involved or were not involved, and really what it comes down to is Brian, you've got to start there. That's the way it is. Catfish had nothing to do with it on the end of ... Basically, I believe that she was killed. Okay? I do believe her and Brian got into an argument, Brian killed her, and then they disposed of the body. I'm not sure who they are, but I'm pretty sure if you talk to Landon, Jack, and Brian, if you get those three, you'll be able to figure it out.

Payne Lindsey: 21:21 Calvin essentially says, "If you want to figure out what happened to Kristal, the answer lies with these three guys — Dready Brian, Landon, and Jack — and also Catfish.

Calvin: 21:33 Once I started talking to Catfish, I got to basically know Catfish, it wasn't him at all. I hate to say this, but he may have helped him cover it up.

Payne Lindsey: 21:43 The biggest question I had was, why did Calvin seem to know so much? For someone who wasn't involved at all, according to him, he sure did have a lot of say about it. Either way, for the most part, what Calvin told me seemed to ring true, even though some of the details remain a little confusing. Of the names that Calvin mentioned, Landon and Jack, I was only able to get ahold of one of them, Landon. Landon's call was perhaps the hardest to understand because of his location and the quality of his phone, but it wasn't just you.

Landon: 22:12 I'm doing very well...?

Payne Lindsey: 22:16 Yeah, man. Denver's awesome, man. I love Denver.

Landon: 22:21 Can you hear me...

Payne Lindsey: 22:21 I can barely hear you.

Landon: 22:22 Okay, let me step outside and see if it improves because my phone's been really...

Payne Lindsey: 22:27 Landon also seemed to have a lot to say about Kristal for having not been involved whatsoever, but I heard him out anyway. Perhaps the most important takeaway from my call with Landon was this.

Landon: 22:39 I mean, was I there for anything of that nature? No, I wasn't. I went over to the person's house, Catfish's house, and she was there, and at the time I'd take out the trash for him and stuff. I kind of did some work for him, things that he couldn't do. She was there, and I met her, and she was trying to help me take out trash, and she had a pretty positive vibe about her, and I was just plain as obvious that there was an element of manipulation dynamic between the two of them.

Landon: 23:08 He's so crazy. He tried to go even crazier on purpose, and I think his ... If he tried to go crazier, man, his credibility would be in question, I feel like. He's just nuts. Poisoned me with LSD during that time or put acid in me, hired people to steal from me, hired people to beat me up, put libel, slander, all sorts of fucking crazy stories out there about me.

Payne Lindsey: 23:36 It was rumored that Catfish has quote, unquote, "dosed people" with different drugs in the past as some sort of retaliation. Calvin had also mentioned something about dosing.

Calvin: 23:46 They're basically dosing each other with LSD to basically drive each other insane. If you want to get dosed, that means you're going to drop some acid. But, I mean, if you're getting dosed, that means somebody's either trying to kill you, drive you insane, or push you to a point where your mental state can't handle the amount of drugs that you're on. There's several people that have been dosed around here through methamphetamines specifically. They walk around fighting shadow people for the rest of their lives, shit like that.

Payne Lindsey: 24:15 An unexpected heavy dose of hard drugs could make anyone sound or act crazy. Is that why Calvin noticed a huge psychological change in both Landon and Jack?

Calvin: 24:26 I saw a complete psychological breakdown from Landon, Brian, and the paranoia of all three of them just went through the roof. Landon went from being a standard meth psychosis to being completely paranoid at all times, even when he was sober or not, thinking that people were following him. I mean, when they mentioned that they had found Kristal's body, he completely freaked out. Jack, he ended up being committed.

Payne Lindsey: 24:58 I guess both could be true. Some level of involvement in Kristal's disappearance coupled with extreme psychological effects of hard drugs. I don't know. But Landon certainly had some interesting things to say, and not all of it was easy to follow.

Landon: 25:11 When you come into full awareness and knowledge of what's happening on the planet, it's big, bro. Big. Portals opening. They could be opening now, but by 2018 ... I mean, this shit is kind of crazy, and I probably sound like I'm nuts, right?

Payne Lindsey: 25:30 As for the other guy, Jack, I was unable to reach him for comment. But he's read all my Facebook messages dating back to June. There's a lot of finger-pointing going on within this circle. My question is simple — why the hell are they talking about it so much? Rumors have to start somewhere, and it seems like they all trace back to here.

Payne Lindsey: 25:58 Just a few weeks ago, an anonymous person made contact with Catfish, Catfish claiming that Dready Brian confessed to killing Kristal in a message he sent him on Facebook. Now, this is a bold claim. Catfish also went on to say that he shared this message with the CBI, the Colorado Bureau of Investigation. This sounds pretty damning for Dready Brian, but is it true? Catfish claimed that he shared this incriminating Facebook message with an agent at the CBI, but we can't just take his word for it.

CBI : 26:31 You're calling the Colorado Bureau of Investigation Identification Unit.

Payne Lindsey: 26:39 I eventually made contact with the CBI. But because this is, in fact, an active investigation, they couldn't share any details on record. But they did acknowledge having heard this information. So maybe Catfish is telling the truth, and if he is, and the message he has from Brian isn't doctored or altered in any way, then it should be case closed, right? Well, I don't know. Where do Landon and Jack fall in the picture? And why has Landon never once mentioned Dready Brian? In fact, he only mentions Catfish. And what about Calvin's stories of these alleged night terrors?

Calvin: 27:15 Landon was staying at my house one night, and he woke up, and he was like, "I didn't do it." I know what he said. "I didn't mean to do it," that's what he said. "I didn't mean to do it to her." And then I've heard Catfish several times. Catfish was like, "I didn't think they'd kill her." I've heard him say that a couple times. Just not general night terrors. He's actually said that twice.

Payne Lindsey: 27:38 In conclusion, until some more people in the circle start talking and set the record straight, this story will continue to be muddled with misinformation.

Payne Lindsey: 27:54 However, now more people are talking. In fact, some people are talking a whole lot. We've officially reached that moment in Up and Vanished where you as the listener are almost caught up with me. From this point forward, this story becomes much darker and much more complicated. Next Monday's episode will be a listener Q&A, so please call us with any questions you have, and we'll answer them next Monday. The number is 404-410-0911. Again, that's 404-410-0911. We'll resume with episode eight on Monday, October 22nd. In the meantime, here's a teaser for what's to come later this season on Up and Vanished.

Ara: 28:43 I got a visitor in my courtyard who told me he was there, or he knows where that party was.

Unknown man 1: 28:57 All of these people have open active warrants. None of them should have handguns by law. None of them should have handguns. Law enforcement went in and created Kristal's missing person report on 7/16. That was when she was officially reported missing in our database. Then someone went in there then and said, "Last seen on July 30th."

Unknown man 2: 29:22 A lady came in, and he was sitting in his car, so I walk up, and I'm like, "I'm not your fucking buddy, bro. And what the fuck happened, bro?" And he literally was just laughing it off, bro. And he's like, "I don't give a fuck. I'm going to China." Literally laughing about it. I mean, he didn't even seem like he was in his right mind. He dosed my best friend so hard and got freaking ... Dude, he's fried now, bro. Running through the snow with no shoes on. His fingers have ... He got frostbite. His fingers are fucked for life now, dude. I mean, yeah, he was stealing, but, dude, come on now. This isn't fucking 1800s where we cut people's hands off and shit, you know what I'm saying?

Meredith S.: 30:10 Up and Vanished in an investigative podcast told weekly, produced for Tenderfoot TV by Payne Lindsey, Mike Rooney, and me, Meredith Stedman, with new episodes every Monday. Executive producers Payne Lindsey and Donald Albright. Additional production by Resonate Recordings, as well as Mason Lindsey, Rob Ricotta, and Christina Dana. Our intern is Hallie Bedol. Original score by Makeup and Vanity Set. Our theme song is Ophelia performed by Ezza Rose. Our cover art is by Trevor Isler. Special thanks to the team at Cadence13.

Meredith S. : 30:43 Visit us on social media via @upandvanished, or you can visit our website, upandvanished.com, where you can join in on our discussion board. If you're enjoying Up and Vanished, tell a friend, family member, or coworker about it. And don't forget to subscribe, rate, and review on Apple Podcasts. Thanks for listening.