Roger Goodell often comes across as a talking-point spewing robot, pushed in front of the cameras to lay down a defense of the league and whatever scandal is brewing at that moment. So I guess it's no surprise that he went to Stanford University's Virtual Human Interaction Lab to learn about empathy using the same virtual reality devices we typically associate with quarterback training.

Lauren Goode from The Verge and Mark Bergen from Recode, our Vox Media sister sites, visited Stanford's VHIL labs for the latest episode of Recode's Too Embarrassed To Ask podcast where they spoke with Stanford professor Jeremy Bailenson, the director of the VHIL, about how VR is being used for empathy training as well as lots of other applications.

"He came here to learn about empathy," Bailenson said. "He really wanted to understand how to think about issues of race, issues of gender. A lot of our lab's research is about having people think about becoming someone else, and that's why Goodell came."

In the spring, USA Today wrote about the NFL's plans to tap into virtual reality to soften its edges a bit. But now we get to learn more about Goodell's trip there, including the revelation that he would not jump into a virtual pit during the plank exercise.

NBA commissioner Adam Silver visited the labs too, to learn more about the fan experience at NBA games.

The discussion about Goodell's visit starts at the 25-minute mark, but Bailenson talks more about VR and empathy training and other sports related applications throughout the podcast. It's worth your time.