@camilaart​

Most of this theory’s important points have been posted here. Read it first: http://camilaart.tumblr.com/post/157510307840/please-read-this

Seems interesting, right? Shyren’s sister seems to have fallen down too early to be saved by Alphys, at least according to Mettaton’s diaries. So it seems that it must have been Gaster who saved her. This leads to some interesting conclusions:

Gaster was still in the underground for some time after the 6th human came. We can assume this, since Asgore was the one who ordered the royal scientist to find a way to shatter the barrier artificially, instead of waiting for a human to come. And he did so because the monsters grew desperate, since no human was coming for a long time. This is exactly what Toriel said about us, that we’re the first human to come here in a long time, and the last human to come was the 6th one.

So Gaster was still alive after the 6th human fell, and he wrote the first few lab entries, he had the comatose bodies delivered to him, and he ran the first experiments. Then he disappeared, a long time has passed, and then Alphys came onto the scene.

Ok, now let’s analyze this theory thoroughly.

First, what happened to the fallen monsters delivered to Gaster, what happened to Shyren’s sister? A long time has passed since Gaster’s death, and she’s still around. So either she got well and returned (which seems improbable, since Mettaton doesn’t speak of this, and besides, she would have to fall down one more time after that in order to be turned into an amalgamate by Alphys later on), or Gaster turned her into an amalgamate outright and then hid her, just like Alphys hid her amalgamates.

But where would Gaster even hide her, assuming the first option can’t pass? Alphys probably never saw this amalgamate before she started experimenting, since otherwise she wouldn’t attempt to do the same mistake as Gaster. But the amalgamate is still in the lab when we enter it. What’s more, it’s not just Shyren’s sister, it’s a whole bunch of monsters stuck together (Lemon Bread), and those must have already been with her since the beginning, because otherwise Alphys would notice her own amalgamates going missing.

So either Lemon Bread is a master at stealth (which doesn’t seem to be the case if it’s disguising itself as a save point, as those things are probably really bright, and also since that means it must have spent years in there until Alphys came), or it wasn’t hidden in the lab at all. But then explain why did it return to the lab if it was already hidden someplace else. Or there’s just something wrong with our theory.

Second, the lab entries. They seem continuous. It’s hard to pinpoint exactly where do Gaster’s entries end, but apparently it’s when they go lowercase (9th entry). That would mean that Gaster’s research got cut off, implying he disappeared after the 8th entry. Otherwise he would continue. But that was too soon for the amalgamates to be saved. And what about Alphys? Did she follow the first 8 and then finished the job, meaning she lied to us all this time? Even during her confession in the true lab? Did she really take credit for everything that was described in the first 8 entries?

That doesn’t really bark right, does it? I don’t think Toby made Alphys a “compulsive liar” (quoting Camila right here).

Third, Gaster’s behavior. This theory is saying that Gaster picked one of Asgore’s flowers as a vessel, apparently to surprise him. Ok, so like, Gaster is apparently into flowers and girly stuff and whatnot. Call me sexist, but that’s weird. He was a brilliant (and therefore probably a serious) scientist. Why flowers? And the style of those entries. There’s triple dots … all over the place. That’s not really professional, is it? If anything, those entries resemble a distressed, or a slightly unprofessional speech. That fits Alphys, since she didn’t work hard to get her job, she lied to Asgore about creating a soul (in reality, it was a ghost in a robotic body).

Ok, I’ll stop here. As you can see, this theory has many flaws. Let’s think of a better one for the time being. I’ll start by pointing out a few things:

We don’t know the exact definition of “fallen down”. It could last seconds, minutes, hours, days, or maybe even weeks. Therefore, it’s most likely dependant on the condition of the monster. Also, Asgore falls down after he gets down to 30 HP, so falling down must not necessarily foreshadow an impending death.

Alphys is a fast worker. If she can upgrade a 100 year old cell phone within seconds, then she for SURE can befriend Mettaton, make him a body, get a job in a lab, do some research, and save the fallen monsters, all within like one week or so.

People underestimate Mettaton’s love towards diaries. He’s perfectly capable of wasting 6 of them within one week.

Put this together, and you get that Shyren’s sister was saved thanks to Alphys’s haste, and that Mettaton really wrote all those diary entries in a short time. You could speculate that he got a new one each day. Why only 6 of them though? Why would he start writing them so recently then? Well, I don’t know, but that doesn’t mean the first one was written a long time ago. Maybe he got his first diary to write about Shyren’s sister solely (since it was such a devastating event for everyone, and he just had to document it), and then it became an obsession for him. Therefore, if the last one was “recent”, then the first one must have been more or less recent too.

This removes the need for Gaster completely, and also invalidates all proof for the statement that he must have perished after the 6th human. It also means that Alphys wrote all the lab entries, and that she’s not a compulsive liar. And also, that lowercase writing apparently just indicates that she’s sad. Don’t drag Gaster or Sans into it.

Camila’s theory is based on the assumption that Mettaton’s diary entries span a long time frame, and the theory itself is really crumbly.

My theory (or rather, everyone else’s theory) is based on the assumption that this time frame was really short due to Mettaton’s personality, and this doesn’t create so many holes and paradoxes.

Since there’s no proof nor counter-proof for either of these possible time frames, I guess you can pick sides on this one, but uh, I’ve heard of this thing called “Occam’s razor”, so…

BONUS:

http://camilaart.tumblr.com/post/163257237925/so-during-todays-stream-i-found-what-you-said

“It’s actually sad that some people still think that the one who wrote entroes 1 to 8 was not gaster.“

- Camila Cuevas 2017

EDIT:

So apparently I’ve got one thing wrong. According to this theory, Gaster made all of the fallen monsters persist, but they were still comatose and didn’t give in their souls. After that, he perished and then Alphys came, continuing exactly where Gaster left.

This implies that the lab entries are very objective, and that when Alphys came, she started using them more subjectively, to babble about her feelings, etc. But most importantly, it shows that we do not need to wonder about what happened to the individual monsters anymore, since, well, they were comatose.

This makes the theory more coherent, but still doesn’t prove it. It just solidifies the event arc that it’s proposing.

However, I still stand by what I said a long time ago, that the counter theory to this one, that is, that Gaster had no part in the DT experiments, is much simpler. Both theories work, neither has any bigger flaws to them, but neither can be proved, since there’s not enough evidence to definitely prove/disprove either one.

If anything, this theory is just an “alternative” story arc. It doesn’t solve any problems of the original story arc (the one stating that it was Alphys who wrote the first 8 lab entries), because, well, there weren’t any flaws to be solved to begin with, but it still seems “legitimate”.

This is often the problem with theories. People make them, and then promote them everywhere as the holy canon JUST because they contain no flaws. And it gets even worse when another, similarly legitimate theory then emerges.

So then, if this theory has no flaws as I said, then why did I choose the original one over this one?



Occam’s razor. Both theories could work, but the one involving Alphys as the one who wrote the first 8 entries assumes less.

Also, don’t forget, always ask yourself, WWTD? What would Toby do? Is the story line that he created REALLY that complicated, going as far as involving Gaster, a character that might very well be just a mystery for the sake of a mystery? I would even believe it, but there’s just not enough “evidence” that would make this theory truly compelling to me. Not if the basis of this theory lies in something as remote as Mettaton’s diaries.

If you don’t remember, this theory arose from the fact that Mettaton speaks of Shyren’s sister falling down BEFORE ever mentioning Alphys, who wasn’t even the royal scientist at that time yet. So, some people probably asked then, who saved Shyren’s sister?

…

Well? Who do you think did? Gaster? Or did she simply hold on for that long until Alphys came onto the scene?

This is why I said that we truly don’t know much about the “fallen down” state yet. We just know that the monsters go immobile, maybe even comatose. BUT, they do not inherently die. Many just kinda… sleep after that, I guess. If Shyren’s sister was strong, strong enough to persist for so long, then I don’t see the need to pull Gaster into this mess. And I do think that she was strong. She could have been the polar opposite of Shyren (who, hint, is very shy), and many mourn her death, meaning she must have been a significant person. Maybe she was strong enough to persist, persist for long enough to be eventually saved.

That is my speculation.