SalvorMallow Profile Joined May 2010 United States 15 Posts Last Edited: 2013-01-30 02:47:35 #1



My name is Brian “Salvor” Jones and I am the (Former) manager of the vVv SC2 division. I had been brought on a couple months ago to attempt to turn around the ailing division, but was met with a constant stream of challenges, proving, at least to me, that vVv as an organization could not facilitate the success of a sc2 division.



I wasn’t actually planning on making any announcements about what happened with the vVv division shutdown, but I feel have to provide some clarity as to the events leading up to this event. There was an agreement by vVv management and myself (Have recorded evidence) that we were going to coordinate the exit of the division and ensure that the real reasons why we ended up leaving were heard. It is unfortunate that even with these verbal agreements, vVv management decided to go behind our back and post a news article that is not only intentionally misleading, but undermines the efforts of each and every player on the team.



As you may or may not know, vVv’s Starcraft 2 division has long struggled to find its identity within the organization. From as far back as a year ago, the division has battled with disinterested leadership, broken promises, waning organizational passion, and mixed priorities that have crippled the ability of the team, and more importantly, the players, to drive forward towards their goals of self improvement in the SC2 e-sports scene. This tension came to a head recently with the loss of our A-team member and close friend, NuBrGNi.



One of the first things I did upon taking over the Starcraft 2 division was request that we bolster the ranks of our sponsored team, because I and many others on the team felt that sponsored players are where teams receive their biggest ROI, and they give an academy team like Aspire something to look forward to and people to look up to. I was given approval to do this by management, so I start seeking out players to fill the ranks. The first person I ran across was NuBrGNi, and I was instantly drawn to his passion, his strength of will, and his overall incredible knowledge of the game. I won’t go into great detail about the events that follow, because I have a statement from NuBrGNi that gives a pretty clear explanation, but I will give a quick summary on my thoughts.



vVv requires a tremendous amount of effort from their sponsored players. Unlike most organizations, they require constant attention to the community, which actually affects the playtime of the players. This includes posting on forums, hanging out on mumble and coaching the players of their academy team. NuBrGNi was no exception. Everybody quickly became very close with NuBrGNi as he was tireless in his efforts to help everybody, constantly asking for games from lower level players in vVv, providing free coaching, laddering non-stop, streaming etc.



Unfortunately, by no fault of his own, shortly after NuBrGNi was picked up, the entire sponsored team and community was dropped from their Starcraft 2 division, leaving only the academy team. Just to be clear, although Nub’s statement says it below, he received no compensation whatsoever for the 2-3 months that he spent a massive amount of time following the requirements of vVv management.



This is, perhaps, the biggest problem with the organization; the constant promises made to players and their community that are not fulfilled. There is a distinct lack of accountability by upper management. When they lie to you and you call them on it, they say “Who gives a fuck, get over it” or post insincere political apologies.

I know Glon, a phenomenal player and another close friend of mine experienced similar issues with upper management during his tenure with vVv.



In the end, there was a unanimous decision made by the Starcraft 2 division that the best thing we could do for ourselves is part ways with vVv. We informed management before we made any announcements and promised each other that we wouldn’t make any posts until we both agreed on the content the next day. I received the following PM from RobZ, Vice President of Operations for vVv around noon the next day, about 6 hours before our prearranged “Exit coordination” meeting:







After discussing everything internally and talking to LordJerith about it, we have decided that we are going to be closing our Starcraft 2 division entirely and we've already launched the news post. Resignations are never something that we've done publicly, and it doesn't make sense to start now. If the community would still like to post their resignations feel free to send them to us and we will post them in the official resignations forum.



Below is the official announcement thread.



http://www.vvv-gamin...aft-2-division/” “Hey Salvor,After discussing everything internally and talking to LordJerith about it, we have decided that we are going to be closing our Starcraft 2 division entirely and we've already launched the news post. Resignations are never something that we've done publicly, and it doesn't make sense to start now. If the community would still like to post their resignations feel free to send them to us and we will post them in the official resignations forum.Below is the official announcement thread.



First off, I would like to issue a public apology to NuBrGNi. Although I feel I was being mislead about what the benefits would be, and trust me when I say I fought for you, I feel personally responsible for what happened to you. It’s tough to be the front-man for an organization who does not keep its promises. I actually feel like you are a personal friend, rather than a teammate, so it really sucks to know that I was the one who lead you into this trap, costing you dozens of hours of playing time, as well as months of time you could have spent looking for a team who was actually going to take care of you.



Secondly, I just want to give the community the assurance that everybody in the former vVv sc2 division was very close and won’t let something like this break us apart. We are forming our own Academy team for now so that we can continue our practice regimens and hang together, but are actively pursuing a good home.



Lastly, I want to thank everybody for their private and public displays of support. It was a big blow for us that this organization that we poured our blood, sweat, and tears into turned their back on us, but seeing all of the public outreach and kind words has really gotten us through this trying time.



Thanks!

Brian “Salvor” Jones



P.S. I felt Glon's statement was relevant enough to include in the OP. He's obviously one of the hottest up and coming Zs in NA right now, and even he had issues that he wanted to make known about his previous tenure with vVv.



Good evening,My name is Brian “Salvor” Jones and I am the (Former) manager of the vVv SC2 division. I had been brought on a couple months ago to attempt to turn around the ailing division, but was met with a constant stream of challenges, proving, at least to me, that vVv as an organization could not facilitate the success of a sc2 division.I wasn’t actually planning on making any announcements about what happened with the vVv division shutdown, but I feel have to provide some clarity as to the events leading up to this event. There was an agreement by vVv management and myself (Have recorded evidence) that we were going to coordinate the exit of the division and ensure that the real reasons why we ended up leaving were heard. It is unfortunate that even with these verbal agreements, vVv management decided to go behind our back and post a news article that is not only intentionally misleading, but undermines the efforts of each and every player on the team.As you may or may not know, vVv’s Starcraft 2 division has long struggled to find its identity within the organization. From as far back as a year ago, the division has battled with disinterested leadership, broken promises, waning organizational passion, and mixed priorities that have crippled the ability of the team, and more importantly, the players, to drive forward towards their goals of self improvement in the SC2 e-sports scene. This tension came to a head recently with the loss of our A-team member and close friend, NuBrGNi.One of the first things I did upon taking over the Starcraft 2 division was request that we bolster the ranks of our sponsored team, because I and many others on the team felt that sponsored players are where teams receive their biggest ROI, and they give an academy team like Aspire something to look forward to and people to look up to. I was given approval to do this by management, so I start seeking out players to fill the ranks. The first person I ran across was NuBrGNi, and I was instantly drawn to his passion, his strength of will, and his overall incredible knowledge of the game. I won’t go into great detail about the events that follow, because I have a statement from NuBrGNi that gives a pretty clear explanation, but I will give a quick summary on my thoughts.vVv requires a tremendous amount of effort from their sponsored players. Unlike most organizations, they require constant attention to the community, which actually affects the playtime of the players. This includes posting on forums, hanging out on mumble and coaching the players of their academy team. NuBrGNi was no exception. Everybody quickly became very close with NuBrGNi as he was tireless in his efforts to help everybody, constantly asking for games from lower level players in vVv, providing free coaching, laddering non-stop, streaming etc.Unfortunately, by no fault of his own, shortly after NuBrGNi was picked up, the entire sponsored team and community was dropped from their Starcraft 2 division, leaving only the academy team. Just to be clear, although Nub’s statement says it below, he received no compensation whatsoever for the 2-3 months that he spent a massive amount of time following the requirements of vVv management.This is, perhaps, the biggest problem with the organization; the constant promises made to players and their community that are not fulfilled. There is a distinct lack of accountability by upper management. When they lie to you and you call them on it, they say “Who gives a fuck, get over it” or post insincere political apologies.I know Glon, a phenomenal player and another close friend of mine experienced similar issues with upper management during his tenure with vVv.In the end, there was a unanimous decision made by the Starcraft 2 division that the best thing we could do for ourselves is part ways with vVv. We informed management before we made any announcements and promised each other that we wouldn’t make any posts until we both agreed on the content the next day. I received the following PM from RobZ, Vice President of Operations for vVv around noon the next day, about 6 hours before our prearranged “Exit coordination” meeting:First off, I would like to issue a public apology to NuBrGNi. Although I feel I was being mislead about what the benefits would be, and trust me when I say I fought for you, I feel personally responsible for what happened to you. It’s tough to be the front-man for an organization who does not keep its promises. I actually feel like you are a personal friend, rather than a teammate, so it really sucks to know that I was the one who lead you into this trap, costing you dozens of hours of playing time, as well as months of time you could have spent looking for a team who was actually going to take care of you.Secondly, I just want to give the community the assurance that everybody in the former vVv sc2 division was very close and won’t let something like this break us apart. We are forming our own Academy team for now so that we can continue our practice regimens and hang together, but are actively pursuing a good home.Lastly, I want to thank everybody for their private and public displays of support. It was a big blow for us that this organization that we poured our blood, sweat, and tears into turned their back on us, but seeing all of the public outreach and kind words has really gotten us through this trying time.Thanks!Brian “Salvor” JonesP.S. I felt Glon's statement was relevant enough to include in the OP. He's obviously one of the hottest up and coming Zs in NA right now, and even he had issues that he wanted to make known about his previous tenure with vVv. OK I'm going to outline exactly what happened to me this past summer, because it may add to the discussion. Also, I feel an obligation to any player that is thinking about signing with vVv's administration to tell him of what has happened to me. If a player signs with them just to get taken advantage of (like I have been), I would feel some responsibility.



After MLG Anaheim, in order to prevent me from changing teams (I was looking at many different offers), vVv offered me a monthly salary, travel and hotel to every event, and the ability to influence (not decide, just give input) on who they would sign to build their SC2 team again. Notice that they did NOT offer a contract - just a promise (and agreement) - I will get to this later: it's significant, however doesn't really change from what happened.



Now swing around to Fall. I had been playing decently in leagues - won a couple tournaments, almost qualified for the NASL, and qualified for the WCG US Nationals. Here we had a problem. vVv didn't want to pay for my flight or hotel to the WCG US Nationals, and instead of saying so they told me about the conflict with WCG Global Finals (in China) and IPL 5. Although I thought that WCG may have been more important (depending on my seeding/chances of success), I said OK. Potential disaster #1 avoided.



Next, however, came MLG Dallas. I had done very well in the online qualifier, being seeded directly into WR5 for the event. All of the time moving forward towards the event I was talking with vVv's administration and my manager - everything was on board. However, 2 weeks before the event (EVERYTHING was "you're good to go" up until now) they asked me to find a flight. Now, it doesn't take a genius to know that finding a flight 2 weeks before an event is not only stupid but costs money - and a lot more money than if it had been purchased say 2 months before the event. So I found the flight (cheapest was ~ $500) and sent it to them. What was the reply? "No, sorry, we can't do that. We can only give you $135." For a day they left me to wonder at them denying paying for my flight. They had broken yet another promise (salary never happened, whenever I brought up they delayed/didn't answer, and ofc team didn't happen, it's vVv's administration). Now, later vVv would pay for my flight partially because I threatened to go public and also partially because they managed to find a super-cheap deal. However, the time not knowing they had a flight made me think: For all of vVv's promises and supposed "professionalism," all I EVER got out of them was a jersey, 2 hotel rooms (but these don't really count - they didn't buy another hotel room just because I was going), and 1 flight which I had to fight and threaten to get. For all of my dedication to this team, I bought their bull shit for 8 months.



Now to the question of contracts. Let me just establish this: If a player breaks a contract, the team isn't going to sue him. It would be economically a disaster. Likewise goes for the player - the player isn't going to sue a team, they can't afford a full trial. So, basically, in essence contracts don't mean anything in eSports among 90% of teams/players. Having a contract means the same thing as having any other sort of agreement here - the law is not on either's side. Therefore, while yes I may not have had a contract, I still fulfilled the entirety of my part of the agreement while they broke almost every single one of theirs. Also understand that not many players have legitament contracts - very few - so while vVv had a right to break their contract, they still show their character, disloyalty, and willingness to take advantage of players.



(Statements in next post because this is so long) (Statements in next post because this is so long)

SalvorMallow Profile Joined May 2010 United States 15 Posts Last Edited: 2013-01-30 02:47:57 #2







vVv asked me to be more active with the community before anything was arranged. I had made many posts, bonded with not only the SC2 division but few of the other people in other gaming categories. The amount of posts and free coaching given to Aspire took a lot of time out of my practice but I decided to take the time since it was one of the things that vVv wanted me to do. During this time I had a fulltime job and had 3 hours of travelling every day so you can imagine how much time I had for SC2.

When the time came for my follow up interview, Doomhammer was reluctant to offer me a position within the sponsored team since I couldn’t get GM during that time. The slots were closed and then locked, but they mentioned in the first meeting that they were looking for community active members. This confused me a bit because I figured they would want me at my best performance to represent the team but however that was not the case.



After the meeting, Salvor had helped me with the case by talking with Doomhammer because I did all the things that vVv requested of me, and shortly after I was accepted into vVv but without Salvor’s help it would not have happened. I would have kept making massive amounts of posts and helping out the Aspire program. After the acceptance, I didn’t forget about Aspire. I helped them when I had downtime but put my practice first.



Upon acceptance, they promised me that sponsored players had access to financial support such as Lodging, flight costs, gear and other things. I was reluctant to ask vVv for gear since I was afraid of being ungrateful and asking for things right off the bat but when my keyboard and mouse were acting up, I put in a request. They said not a problem and said they’d take care of it, information was exchanged and I never brought it up again. Shortly after, vVv requested me to write up a 1 month ‘experience with vVv’. I wasn’t expecting to take time out of my practice to write up blogs for vVv, I’ve never wrote blogs before so I was lost and I’m not sure why they wanted me to do this but it was a request so I did it without question.

Salvor came up to me one day and got the estimates of MLG Dallas of 2013 in March, we spent about a good 3-4 hours on trying to get the cheapest flight. At this point I was expecting to go to dallas because if they weren’t planning to send me, why would they ask for an estimate?





RobZ came up to me on skype and said.

[14/01/2013 3:58:11 PM] Rob Thompson - vVv RobZ:, Jordan wanted me to ask you about Dallas. What kind of support do you need for the event?

[14/01/2013 3:58:22 PM] John Victor Kim: Support as in what

[14/01/2013 3:58:37 PM] John Victor Kim: I figured the trip cost would be that only

[14/01/2013 3:58:44 PM] John Victor Kim: I just need a vvv shirt

[14/01/2013 3:58:57 PM] John Victor Kim: gear isnt really needed unless u guys want me to change my gear

[14/01/2013 3:59:10 PM] John Victor Kim: cause it is made by razer, ttesrpots and my headset is just a random headset i use

[14/01/2013 3:59:25 PM] Rob Thompson - vVv RobZ: Alright ill talk to Jordan about gear

[14/01/2013 3:59:39 PM] Rob Thompson - vVv RobZ: When is the canada event?

[14/01/2013 3:59:44 PM] John Victor Kim: the LAN? or ETS?

[14/01/2013 3:59:51 PM] John Victor Kim: ETS is on first week of march

[14/01/2013 3:59:55 PM] John Victor Kim: i have a LAN event im going to this weekend

[14/01/2013 3:59:56 PM] John Victor Kim: on saturday

[14/01/2013 3:59:58 PM] John Victor Kim: its about 10ish

[14/01/2013 4:00:12 PM] John Victor Kim: but it doesnt matter about the cost

[14/01/2013 4:00:14 PM] John Victor Kim: cause its just a local lan

[14/01/2013 4:00:20 PM] Rob Thompson - vVv RobZ: ok we'll get you a shirt for ets and dallas, we're ordering a new layout

[14/01/2013 4:00:25 PM] Rob Thompson - vVv RobZ: working on that today

[14/01/2013 4:00:31 PM] John Victor Kim: sick

[14/01/2013 4:00:32 PM] John Victor Kim: no rush

[14/01/2013 4:00:48 PM] John Victor Kim: jus tlet me know what you need from me

[14/01/2013 4:04:00 PM] Rob Thompson - vVv RobZ: will do, we need the hammer out the details on that content/video idea

[14/01/2013 4:07:18 PM] John Victor Kim: sure ofc

[14/01/2013 6:22:09 PM] Rob Thompson - vVv RobZ: Hey John, I was reading back our convo earlier to Jordan and to be clear, what are you expecting vVv to cover for dallas?

[14/01/2013 6:24:01 PM] John Victor Kim: uhh

[14/01/2013 6:24:15 PM] John Victor Kim: Did you guys want me to go to dllas?

[14/01/2013 6:24:17 PM] John Victor Kim: dallas**

[14/01/2013 6:24:36 PM] John Victor Kim: I was under the impression that you guys were paying for the flight and staying in the hotel with the rest of you gusy

[14/01/2013 6:24:41 PM] John Victor Kim: guys and competing in mlg

[14/01/2013 6:25:17 PM] John Victor Kim: cause salvor asked me to do the financial stuff for the tirp

[14/01/2013 6:25:20 PM] John Victor Kim: we've concluded it was 383

[14/01/2013 6:25:29 PM] John Victor Kim: just for the trip itself for me and back

[14/01/2013 6:25:51 PM] John Victor Kim: i just assumed i was attendin dallas cause he came up to me with the topic

[14/01/2013 6:27:25 PM] Rob Thompson - vVv RobZ: At this point, I'm not sure that we can cover the entire flight and lodging as well. We've traditionally never covered both for a sponsored players first event with us. We asked Salvor to get an estimate of the entire trip including lodging to estimate the investment

[14/01/2013 6:27:38 PM] Rob Thompson - vVv RobZ: Because we'd have to get another room

[14/01/2013 6:27:52 PM] John Victor Kim: ooh okay

[14/01/2013 6:27:59 PM] John Victor Kim: yeah im having financial troubles

[14/01/2013 6:28:08 PM] John Victor Kim: so i cant pay for any of it as of standings

[14/01/2013 6:28:25 PM] Rob Thompson - vVv RobZ: Do you know that MLG will be hots?

[14/01/2013 6:28:25 PM] John Victor Kim: atm

[14/01/2013 6:28:32 PM] John Victor Kim: i didnt know it was hotS

[14/01/2013 6:28:35 PM] John Victor Kim: i thought it was WoL

[14/01/2013 6:28:57 PM] John Victor Kim: I have been messing around with HotS and such

[14/01/2013 6:29:07 PM] John Victor Kim: i just wont have the game wheni t launhces

[14/01/2013 6:29:18 PM] Rob Thompson - vVv RobZ:

[14/01/2013 6:29:32 PM] John Victor Kim: mmk

[14/01/2013 6:29:33 PM] John Victor Kim: so Hots it is

[14/01/2013 6:29:43 PM] John Victor Kim: I know LAN ETS is hosting WoL

[14/01/2013 6:30:23 PM] John Victor Kim: ill prob be attending that but mlg is a bit too much on its own

[14/01/2013 6:33:08 PM] John Victor Kim: What can be covered in as itself?

[14/01/2013 6:33:26 PM] Rob Thompson - vVv RobZ: What?

[14/01/2013 6:34:00 PM] John Victor Kim: Salvor got an estimite right

[14/01/2013 6:34:46 PM] John Victor Kim: and flight and lodging cant be covered, so I was just wondering what can be covered, see if i can make the financial structure if i can go

[14/01/2013 6:36:36 PM] Rob Thompson - vVv RobZ: I think we would be able to cover lodging, I'd love to help you out with the flight, but Jordan and Jerry really want to see some content, which I told them that we're working on.



So my experience with vVv has been both good and bad. vVv’s community, the people of the ‘Aspire’ program and Salvor had been great to me, supported me and been looking out for me since day 1. I did the best I can to help the Aspire team out as well as change their mindset for tomorrow’s brighter future. When I first applied to vVv, it honestly took a while. The amount of vVv had asked me to do was very time consuming.vVv asked me to be more active with the community before anything was arranged. I had made many posts, bonded with not only the SC2 division but few of the other people in other gaming categories. The amount of posts and free coaching given to Aspire took a lot of time out of my practice but I decided to take the time since it was one of the things that vVv wanted me to do. During this time I had a fulltime job and had 3 hours of travelling every day so you can imagine how much time I had for SC2.When the time came for my follow up interview, Doomhammer was reluctant to offer me a position within the sponsored team since I couldn’t get GM during that time. The slots were closed and then locked, but they mentioned in the first meeting that they were looking for community active members. This confused me a bit because I figured they would want me at my best performance to represent the team but however that was not the case.After the meeting, Salvor had helped me with the case by talking with Doomhammer because I did all the things that vVv requested of me, and shortly after I was accepted into vVv but without Salvor’s help it would not have happened. I would have kept making massive amounts of posts and helping out the Aspire program. After the acceptance, I didn’t forget about Aspire. I helped them when I had downtime but put my practice first.Upon acceptance, they promised me that sponsored players had access to financial support such as Lodging, flight costs, gear and other things. I was reluctant to ask vVv for gear since I was afraid of being ungrateful and asking for things right off the bat but when my keyboard and mouse were acting up, I put in a request. They said not a problem and said they’d take care of it, information was exchanged and I never brought it up again. Shortly after, vVv requested me to write up a 1 month ‘experience with vVv’. I wasn’t expecting to take time out of my practice to write up blogs for vVv, I’ve never wrote blogs before so I was lost and I’m not sure why they wanted me to do this but it was a request so I did it without question.Salvor came up to me one day and got the estimates of MLG Dallas of 2013 in March, we spent about a good 3-4 hours on trying to get the cheapest flight. At this point I was expecting to go to dallas because if they weren’t planning to send me, why would they ask for an estimate?RobZ came up to me on skype and said.[14/01/2013 3:58:11 PM] Rob Thompson - vVv RobZ:, Jordan wanted me to ask you about Dallas. What kind of support do you need for the event?[14/01/2013 3:58:22 PM] John Victor Kim: Support as in what[14/01/2013 3:58:37 PM] John Victor Kim: I figured the trip cost would be that only[14/01/2013 3:58:44 PM] John Victor Kim: I just need a vvv shirt[14/01/2013 3:58:57 PM] John Victor Kim: gear isnt really needed unless u guys want me to change my gear[14/01/2013 3:59:10 PM] John Victor Kim: cause it is made by razer, ttesrpots and my headset is just a random headset i use[14/01/2013 3:59:25 PM] Rob Thompson - vVv RobZ: Alright ill talk to Jordan about gear[14/01/2013 3:59:39 PM] Rob Thompson - vVv RobZ: When is the canada event?[14/01/2013 3:59:44 PM] John Victor Kim: the LAN? or ETS?[14/01/2013 3:59:51 PM] John Victor Kim: ETS is on first week of march[14/01/2013 3:59:55 PM] John Victor Kim: i have a LAN event im going to this weekend[14/01/2013 3:59:56 PM] John Victor Kim: on saturday[14/01/2013 3:59:58 PM] John Victor Kim: its about 10ish[14/01/2013 4:00:12 PM] John Victor Kim: but it doesnt matter about the cost[14/01/2013 4:00:14 PM] John Victor Kim: cause its just a local lan[14/01/2013 4:00:20 PM] Rob Thompson - vVv RobZ: ok we'll get you a shirt for ets and dallas, we're ordering a new layout[14/01/2013 4:00:25 PM] Rob Thompson - vVv RobZ: working on that today[14/01/2013 4:00:31 PM] John Victor Kim: sick[14/01/2013 4:00:32 PM] John Victor Kim: no rush[14/01/2013 4:00:48 PM] John Victor Kim: jus tlet me know what you need from me[14/01/2013 4:04:00 PM] Rob Thompson - vVv RobZ: will do, we need the hammer out the details on that content/video idea[14/01/2013 4:07:18 PM] John Victor Kim: sure ofc[14/01/2013 6:22:09 PM] Rob Thompson - vVv RobZ: Hey John, I was reading back our convo earlier to Jordan and to be clear, what are you expecting vVv to cover for dallas?[14/01/2013 6:24:01 PM] John Victor Kim: uhh[14/01/2013 6:24:15 PM] John Victor Kim: Did you guys want me to go to dllas?[14/01/2013 6:24:17 PM] John Victor Kim: dallas**[14/01/2013 6:24:36 PM] John Victor Kim: I was under the impression that you guys were paying for the flight and staying in the hotel with the rest of you gusy[14/01/2013 6:24:41 PM] John Victor Kim: guys and competing in mlg[14/01/2013 6:25:17 PM] John Victor Kim: cause salvor asked me to do the financial stuff for the tirp[14/01/2013 6:25:20 PM] John Victor Kim: we've concluded it was 383[14/01/2013 6:25:29 PM] John Victor Kim: just for the trip itself for me and back[14/01/2013 6:25:51 PM] John Victor Kim: i just assumed i was attendin dallas cause he came up to me with the topic[14/01/2013 6:27:25 PM] Rob Thompson - vVv RobZ: At this point, I'm not sure that we can cover the entire flight and lodging as well. We've traditionally never covered both for a sponsored players first event with us. We asked Salvor to get an estimate of the entire trip including lodging to estimate the investment[14/01/2013 6:27:38 PM] Rob Thompson - vVv RobZ: Because we'd have to get another room[14/01/2013 6:27:52 PM] John Victor Kim: ooh okay[14/01/2013 6:27:59 PM] John Victor Kim: yeah im having financial troubles[14/01/2013 6:28:08 PM] John Victor Kim: so i cant pay for any of it as of standings[14/01/2013 6:28:25 PM] Rob Thompson - vVv RobZ: Do you know that MLG will be hots?[14/01/2013 6:28:25 PM] John Victor Kim: atm[14/01/2013 6:28:32 PM] John Victor Kim: i didnt know it was hotS[14/01/2013 6:28:35 PM] John Victor Kim: i thought it was WoL[14/01/2013 6:28:57 PM] John Victor Kim: I have been messing around with HotS and such[14/01/2013 6:29:07 PM] John Victor Kim: i just wont have the game wheni t launhces[14/01/2013 6:29:18 PM] Rob Thompson - vVv RobZ:[14/01/2013 6:29:32 PM] John Victor Kim: mmk[14/01/2013 6:29:33 PM] John Victor Kim: so Hots it is[14/01/2013 6:29:43 PM] John Victor Kim: I know LAN ETS is hosting WoL[14/01/2013 6:30:23 PM] John Victor Kim: ill prob be attending that but mlg is a bit too much on its own[14/01/2013 6:33:08 PM] John Victor Kim: What can be covered in as itself?[14/01/2013 6:33:26 PM] Rob Thompson - vVv RobZ: What?[14/01/2013 6:34:00 PM] John Victor Kim: Salvor got an estimite right[14/01/2013 6:34:46 PM] John Victor Kim: and flight and lodging cant be covered, so I was just wondering what can be covered, see if i can make the financial structure if i can go[14/01/2013 6:36:36 PM] Rob Thompson - vVv RobZ: I think we would be able to cover lodging, I'd love to help you out with the flight, but Jordan and Jerry really want to see some content, which I told them that we're working on.



Toxsick's (Former Sponsored player) Statement



John "NuBrGNi" Kim's (Former A-Team Member) statementToxsick's (Former Sponsored player) Statement I got onto vVv back in September of 2011, was just a mid master zerg player, but won a tournament that got me into the academy. Back then, the team was consisting of the older squad with Titan, MurdeR, and Glon. I was excited, really excited. They were copying coL academy by letting us know that one of us would be lucky enough to get payed trip to the next MLG (Whoever won the academy tournament - Academy consisted of 6 players).



Anyways, a couple of the academy members missed a mumble meeting or two, got kicked off. Some of us didn't change our twitter ID's to have vVv in it, another reason you got bitched at / kicked off, or you just didn't post in the forums enough. Silly things got you kicked out of vVv, so it took a lot of effort for anyone on the squad. By this time, it was just me, an old friend Starkad, and a zerg who's ID is slipping my mind (crbox maybe?).



Anyways, we were excited to see who would win the MLG trip and what not, so we prepared for the event.



We then got this delightful message:





Hey guys,



I have some bad news: MLG Providence competitor passes have sold out. Unfortunately this means we can't send anyone to MLG Providence from the academy this season.



Instead, we are going to hold the tournament as usual. The top player to finish this season will be sent to the next MLG event in 2012. We will also keep this player on the academy next season (so that they can train and prepare with other academy members the entire time between now and then).



Let me know if you have any questions.





Ok, not so bad right? Well, next season I planned on going to MLG Columbus, but ended up paying for it all out of my pocket as vVv declined sending me or anyone from the academy out there (Which they promised right above me).



But nope, I still had faith in vVv. Grandmaster was my goal from the academy so I worked my ass off to get it (about 1.5 ladder games per season) until I finally got GM with zerg with help from mostly Titan. I was excited, I improved with the help of titan, had a couple good practice partners and what not, and they finally moved me up to the sponsored team.



I was really excited, as sponsored players got gear and got to go to MLG's on vVv's dime and what not, seemed like it would be fun, and I really wanted to go to the next MLG (And as a broke college student, I can only afford to pay for so many extra expenses...)



Anyways, all the sponsored players were supposed to get gear, so I asked Sugarbear for a headset. Here's the response!





Hey ToXSiK,



I heard back from Jerry, and we can send you a headset. We need the following from you:



- Unboxing video (if possible) for when you open the headset for the first time

- Written review once you've been using it for ~two weeks

- Promoting these things on your facebook, twitter, and stream.



Do you think that's all possible?





To which I replied





Yes, all of this will be possible.





Yep, still haven't received anything. In fact, the only thing vVv has ever given me is a t-shirt (Which they were handing out to ANYONE at MLG Columbus, the event that remember I had to pay in full for... The one where they were going to send an academy member to)



I didn't want to make such a big deal about all this, but this is why I eventually left vVv, and it seems people are curious here on why vVv finally shut down. Rocker left because jerry (LordJerith - owner of vVv) came into a team meeting one day and told us he was cutting all player funding from the sc2 squad except for Glon and RuFF because they had done decent at MLG (Like top 50 on the open bracket or something?). Well, I was disappointed, but I still stayed on vVv for about three months to see if things would eventually work out.



Slowly all of our good players left, Rocker left because the team was just going downhill, daisuki left because he got a personal sponsor, Titan and Murder quit, so just me and glon and ruff were really left. At this point I was approached by BlighT (LOL) which I declined and then went with oGaming where they've been super great to me.



Anyways, just thought you guys might be interested in my point of view on the situation, vVv really is not a team, it's just a bunch of gamers that pretend they are a team. They expect 100% from you and give you nothing in return, even if they promise it. I just can't believe it took them this long to die.



You live and you learn? I guess.



Jana "BabyToss" Otahalova's (Former Aspire team captain) statement





Jana "BabyToss" Otahalova's (Former Aspire team captain) statement "It is time to move on. I joined vVv Gaming in April 2012, with hopes to grow both as a person and a StarCraft 2 player. I ended up coming up with Aspire in the end, to create the desired environment not just for myself, but also for other like-minded people, who wished to pursue StarCraft 2 on more competitive level.







In the end, the direction, which vVv Gaming began to take in last three months was in contradiction to the old values, reasons why I joined the organization and promises from the management, which began directing focus in other way, with their actions and decisions. As such, I believe moving on is the best way for both sides. I personally cannot continue supporting an organization, which doesn't visibly support my division, my team and the game.







All in all, if it wasn't for me joining vVv Gaming, I'd never get to chance to meet some of the awesome people here, I would not learn to be a captain of a team. Despite of all, thank you for all that time. I and my team may be leaving vVv Gaming, but I am not leaving StarCraft 2."



Matthew "Razor" Fernandez's (Former Aspire Rising captain) Statement



Matthew "Razor" Fernandez's (Former Aspire Rising captain) Statement I've been part of vVv Gaming for a short time, in which I have been witness of the great people

that work here, and how all abide and live throughout their passion.



I've learned so much, and I've met so many people that I believe will bring so much to the eSports scene

Unfortunately, as of today me and vVv Gaming have to go separate paths, because our interests no longer align.



I'll always be thankful for this opportunity, as it has helped me grow and discover new things about myself that

I didn't even know I had, I want to take a brief space to mention some people I find very remarkable.





SugarBear: I know all the news hit you hard, I'm doing my best to understand what you must be going through right now,

but eventually things change, for better of worse, and the outcome can only be decided by ourselves. Don't ever lose your

awesome personality, because although you may not longer be aligned with SC2, I know your passion is one in a million.

Thank you for being a friend, a mentor, and a role model, all the things you taught me will be used in the future.



Paradise: You sir, are straight awesome, I love what you're doing right now as a community manager, and it's extremely notable

that you dedicate a lot of time to the community, you're an exemplary manager and a great leader, I look up to you and so should other people do.



Fluffy: I don't consider this to be a goodbye, neither a farewell, or anything like that. I know you, I care for you, and I think eSports was in need

of somebody like you. You will always have 100% of my support in everything, and I'll always have your back no matter what. You are extremely valuable as a person,

as a friend, even more. I'm pretty sure you'll do great things for vVv, provided they give you all the tools you'll need for the job.



There's a lot of people I want to mention here, but for space issues I'll just make a list, I want vVv to take good care of this people, for I see in them a great future.



Magicmooch

Pherzgul

Braindrainer

Misty

Medusa

WaKai (Ear pull for you, you know why.)

Blade



I think there's a lot more people I'd like to add, but I can't remember right now. Leaving vVv is one of the hardest decisions I have made, but I wish you all the best of luck in the future.



There's a lesson to be learned here, and let us be sure that history does not repeat it's course with our wrongs, only our rights.



My best wishes to Doom and Rob (Thanks for the Jersey!), and to everyone that I have not mentioned here.



Jared "Hiei" Scruggs's (Former aspire team player) statement

Jared "Hiei" Scruggs's (Former aspire team player) statement pper management removes the SC2 community, and the sponsered team (1 month after adding a High level player), but decides to keep the Aspire program. The point of the Aspire program (in our eyes) was to get us to a level to play on the sponsored team.



With the sponsored team being removed, a clear lack of direction upper management wanted to take with the division, no interest being shown from the upper management in concerns with the happenings with in the SC2 division, and the lack of communication between upper management and the SC2 division members/managers, the ENTIRE SC2 division lost faith that upper management truly had the best interest in the SC2 division at heart.



The excuse we were given from upper management was "they were spread to thin" and focusing on other projects. It just so happens that all of those projects focused on LoL. I'm fine with that, if that's their passion, go for it. But when other people within the SC2 community want to step up and get things rolling, because upper management doesn't is dragging their feet, the community members were constantly getting shut down, or sometimes not even addressed at all.



So the SC2 division came to the conclusion that vVv's upper management was only serving as a hindrance, and served no real use to the division as a whole, so the Aspire program decided to leave vVv.



mikkmagro Profile Joined April 2011 Malta 1509 Posts #3 It's a pity people's hard work gets flushed down the drain due to incompetence, greed and insincerity of others. I hope NuBrGNi gets the pro/semi-pro team he deserves, and wish you all the best for your academy team! It's a pity people's hard work gets flushed down the drain due to incompetence, greed and insincerity of others. I hope NuBrGNi gets the pro/semi-pro team he deserves, and wish you all the best for your academy team! mousesports, Team Acer, Fnatic!

Ragnarork Profile Blog Joined June 2011 France 8972 Posts #4 That's sad to hear... I feel bad for the players and all the people who put effort into this, just to see they can't even leave the organization properly, being disrespected that much in the process...



Good luck to the players and division managers ! Liquipedia Wanderer.

BisuDagger Profile Blog Joined October 2009 Bisutopia 17615 Posts #5 Thank you for your honesty and openness. I believe the important thing is to just wish the best for the players and move on from this. There's not much we as a community can do but hope the players have learned strong life lessons that will better them and help them in the future. Moderator Ofiicial Afreeca Starleague Caster: http://afreeca.tv/ASL2ENG2

GunHogz Profile Joined June 2011 Canada 47 Posts #6 This is my statement (Former Aspire player):



As a former player for vVv Aspire division. The management was the worst part of the whole thing. This caused a lack of communication with both Starcraft and the management. As nub told me that they wouldn't pay for his entire trip I felt bad for him and lied to as a player who want to acquire one of those sponsorships in the future. This then followed up by series of events and other ordeals that I don't need to explain because others have already explained.



Not to say that everyone else on vVv is bad because I met tons of nice and amazing people while their such as my fellow team mates and other people who don't realize the lack of truth and the misconception of vVv. I hope all those people on vVv can enjoy their time and hopefully the same thing won't happen to them. Doesn't help the matter when these managers from vVv thinking they put time and effort into the Starcraft division just to shut it down is absolutely depressing.



In the end I will move on as a player with these fellow team mates and hope to achieve goals and such at major events this year. I will put this in the past and look forward to the future. We all agree that vVv has been lying through their teeth just to save them time and effort. I won't talk about who they are because I don't want to give them exposer to the world but they know who they are. Good luck to all of the people on vVv and hopefully a bright future lies ahead for us players from the Starcraft division.



shid0x Profile Joined July 2012 Korea (South) 4996 Posts Last Edited: 2013-01-29 18:22:08 #7

I think i can speak on the behalf of 80% of TL.





edit for people who gets mad at this post :

Deal with it.



User was warned for this post Just so you know : Its not like we ever cared about your so called ''team''.I think i can speak on the behalf of 80% of TL.edit for people who gets mad at this post :Deal with it. RIP MKP

ChoDing Profile Joined November 2009 United States 733 Posts #8 whats vVv? o.O



anyways gl in future 관광 since 2008. Master of Cheese. God of Heartbreak Ridge.

asdfOu Profile Joined August 2011 United States 2086 Posts #9 i always thought vVv had a sick name lol rip prime

LuNa. Profile Joined January 2013 United States 20 Posts #10 My Statement (Former vVv Aspire Player)



Hello,



I am David “LuNa” Kronika, former member of the vVv Aspire Program and new member of the newly formed Aspire e-Sports team.



Personally I was very disappointed by the recent turn of events regarding the Aspire team and the vVv organization. I first began my time with vVv about 2 months ago and was an official as of January 4th, 2013. Over the course of this time I had a great experience with the Aspire program and vVv. However over the last week or so it was my understanding that vVv would begin to dissolve the support they gave for starcraft 2, first starting with the sponsored team.



I want to say that I am very, very sorry for John “NuBrGNi”, he absolutely worked his ass off ever since he joined vVv and he was one of the people that I think made my experience with Aspire even that much better. The passion he had for the game and the community was beyond extraordinary. For me I really can't make much sense of why vVv would decide to pick up John in an attempt to rebuild the sponsored team only to cut him a couple of weeks later unless they didn't really have the commitment towards the team that they claimed to have.



I believe that between the sponsored team and the community members for starcraft 2 being dropped, this created a feeling of instability among everyone within Aspire that vVv may not have much interest in truly supporting SC2 and after reading a recent post from LordJerith it seems our feelings were true. His own words said that vVv should have dropped the starcraft division a long time ago so in a sense I am a bit frustrated that there was no communication between management and me or the Aspire members in general. I also was disappointed to find out that vVv would break their agreement with Salvor and BabyToss regarding their “press release” when it was originally agreed upon that they would wait for Salvor and BabyToss before making their post so only the absolute truth would come out from this and not lies and rumors. I'm not accusing or claiming vVv screwed over their sponsored players (I can't honestly speak on this because I obviously don't know of the specifics agreed upon between John and vVv) but I do feel that vVv is responsible for why we (the Aspire program) decided to part ways. Even if they didn't want to commit to starcraft as much as they want to for LoL and Shootmania, they could have at least communicated with us and with NuBrGNi instead of letting everything go and come to a boil.



I hope that for people who have any backlash against vVv that it's directed towards the management and those in charge and not us (the academy team). We were simply a team that BabyToss has worked her ass off for and we just wanted a structure to help us accomplish our goals in gaming. We had no wrong doing in what went on so I don't think we should be receiving backlash for something the management of vVv had done. Regardless of whether or not we're “known” or important players, I feel that people should at least know the truth behind what had happened and for our sakes (the Aspire members) we can at least be cleared of the backlash that has been going on since this news broke yesterday.



Thank you,

David “LuNa” Kronika Aspire e-Sports - Protoss Player | Twitter: @Aspire_LuNa

dragonblade369 Profile Joined May 2010 Canada 412 Posts #11 On January 30 2013 03:13 shid0x wrote:

Just so you know : Its not like we ever cared about your so called ''team''.

I think i can speak on the behalf of 80% of TL.



This kind of post is really unneeded. You really should re-think what you post. And no, u can't speak on the behalf of 80% of TL This kind of post is really unneeded. You really should re-think what you post. And no, u can't speak on the behalf of 80% of TL

SaroVati Profile Joined November 2010 Canada 278 Posts #12 On January 30 2013 03:13 shid0x wrote:

Just so you know : Its not like we ever cared about your so called ''team''.

I think i can speak on the behalf of 80% of TL.



Is this serious? If you don't care about teams that aren't signing big name players, then frankly just don't post in their threads. I don't personally support nor disapprove of vVv, but saying this in their goodbye thread isn't the smartest thing to do.



On topic sad to see an organization close down. Hope the players and managers move on to a brighter future though. Is this serious? If you don't care about teams that aren't signing big name players, then frankly just don't post in their threads. I don't personally support nor disapprove of vVv, but saying this in their goodbye thread isn't the smartest thing to do.On topic sad to see an organization close down. Hope the players and managers move on to a brighter future though.

Nooborghini Profile Joined August 2010 Canada 136 Posts Last Edited: 2013-01-29 18:27:30 #13 - delete - I didn't mean to post twice. I misclicked ~_~ "So we're undefeated today vs everything else (T and P). But the games were ling all ins... and... DesRow twice (Protoss Player)." Greggers - Twitch.Tv/Nooborghini - Twitter/NuBrGNi

coverpunch Profile Joined December 2011 United States 2077 Posts #14 TL is a very unfortunate place to have a frank discussion about what "really" happened, although it highlights the miscommunication between management and players.



I hope everyone can move forward and find an organization that will treat you guys right.

Nooborghini Profile Joined August 2010 Canada 136 Posts Last Edited: 2013-01-29 18:37:26 #15



They make you do stupid huge, time-consuming and tedious tasks that benefits their organization by either make money for themselves or get their viewership count up in trade of false hopes or little to no support for the people who provides either the content or work they invested into. All the flack you about vVv are true, no denial of it.



They didn't want to commit to anything SC2 again because their rep sucked from their history, they tried to clean the slate with me but they failed because all their built up, we shall call it 'notoriety', didn't get cleaned off. Instead of trying to fix their image to the community, they decided to apparently 'drop' their SC2 division. 99.99% of their members left due to their unreasonable ways. I really got baited hard with their offers and such, they had a new management, Salvor, a good hearted person to take up management to renew their tarnished image. Only problem is that they lied to both me and Salvor with the requests.

When processes go in, Salvor would put them through but the higher up, the people I don't want to name because it brings fame to them, would just ignore it and constantly make lies or excuses why it has not gone through. I was promised Dallas, LAN ETS 2013 as well as Gear, shirt, financial support as a sponsored player but they kept making excuses and delaying everything. Shady organization as always.



Even if it's not SC2 they're looking into, this organization should be boycotted and not even allowed to be in ANY eSports community. The community itself is blinded by their lies so they just have to follow, it's the managers who you should look out for. I was warned about this organization but with the new management, it would be fixed and people deserve second chances. No.



I just wish the best of luck to ANYONE wanting to be apart of this organization, just prepare the lube for the inevitable.



Yes Salvor, I understand you tried EVERYTHING you could have to make everything happen to the best of your abilities. No one is blaming you or should, its the higher ups that need to be pointed fingers. I thank you and everyone on Aspire for giving me the support and the mouse you've purchased for me due to this fiasco. I really don't know how to repay you back. This man 110% legit cares about the players he represents and goes 110% to get the job done. He should be the leader of ANY organization, we need more people like this. NOT the current vVv heads.



The whole point of this situation and the responses are not to, what people say "bitch and complain", it is the total opposite.

This is a public warning the future up coming players that are being poached and used by this organization. The truth must be said, both sides of each story should be explained.



vVv with a history of lying, and trying to make their organization the "good guy" in this situation and making whoever they took a shat on the 'bad guy', this organization needs to be at least brought to the community's attention as the shady deceivers they are.



EDIT:



My Statement (Former A-Team/Sponsored player, NuBrGNi)They make you do stupid huge, time-consuming and tedious tasks that benefits their organization by either make money for themselves or get their viewership count up in trade of false hopes or little to no support for the people who provides either the content or work they invested into. All the flack you about vVv are true, no denial of it.They didn't want to commit to anything SC2 again because their rep sucked from their history, they tried to clean the slate with me but they failed because all their built up, we shall call it 'notoriety', didn't get cleaned off. Instead of trying to fix their image to the community, they decided to apparently 'drop' their SC2 division. 99.99% of their members left due to their unreasonable ways. I really got baited hard with their offers and such, they had a new management, Salvor, a good hearted person to take up management to renew their tarnished image. Only problem is that they lied to both me and Salvor with the requests.When processes go in, Salvor would put them through but the higher up, the people I don't want to name because it brings fame to them, would just ignore it and constantly make lies or excuses why it has not gone through. I was promised Dallas, LAN ETS 2013 as well as Gear, shirt, financial support as a sponsored player but they kept making excuses and delaying everything. Shady organization as always.Even if it's not SC2 they're looking into, this organization should be boycotted and not even allowed to be in ANY eSports community. The community itself is blinded by their lies so they just have to follow, it's the managers who you should look out for. I was warned about this organization but with the new management, it would be fixed and people deserve second chances. No.I just wish the best of luck to ANYONE wanting to be apart of this organization, just prepare the lube for the inevitable.Yes Salvor, I understand you tried EVERYTHING you could have to make everything happen to the best of your abilities. No one is blaming you or should, its the higher ups that need to be pointed fingers. I thank you and everyone on Aspire for giving me the support and the mouse you've purchased for me due to this fiasco. I really don't know how to repay you back. This man 110% legit cares about the players he represents and goes 110% to get the job done. He should be the leader of ANY organization, we need more people like this. NOT the current vVv heads.The whole point of this situation and the responses are not to, what people say "bitch and complain", it is the total opposite.This is a public warning the future up coming players that are being poached and used by this organization. The truth must be said, both sides of each story should be explained.vVv with a history of lying, and trying to make their organization the "good guy" in this situation and making whoever they took a shat on the 'bad guy', this organization needs to be at least brought to the community's attention as the shady deceivers they are.EDIT: On January 30 2013 03:17 LuNa. wrote:



Even if they didn't want to commit to starcraft as much as they want to for LoL and Shootmania, they could have at least communicated with us and with NuBrGNi instead of letting everything go and come to a boil.





Yeah at least the decent thing to do was to give me a heads up about this rather than just blowing all at once. It really shows how much they cared about my work I put in meant nothing to them. They are two faced schemers, they talk so friendly in person via mumble and skype but when it comes down to it... Yeah at least the decent thing to do was to give me a heads up about this rather than just blowing all at once. It really shows how much they cared about my work I put in meant nothing to them. They are two faced schemers, they talk so friendly in person via mumble and skype but when it comes down to it... "So we're undefeated today vs everything else (T and P). But the games were ling all ins... and... DesRow twice (Protoss Player)." Greggers - Twitch.Tv/Nooborghini - Twitter/NuBrGNi

MauiMallard Profile Joined January 2011 United States 53 Posts #16 My Statement (Former Aspire member, Hiei):



Upon joining vVv, I knew the organization had received much hate in the past. I felt that most of it was unjustified, and I was convinced by their own "everything for the community" spiel, and always looking out for the players best interest. I can tell you from a first hand experience that is an undeniable lie. At no point did I ever feel that the vVv had the players best interest at heart, and they only acted on what best suited their wishes. I pride myself on my policy of no bullshit, and I have voiced my opinion about vVv and their actions (Particularly when the President of vVv gave me answered a question I posed, and I told him I felt that he was bullshiting me.)



I personally haven't lost a whole lot. I feel worse for all of the players that have been taken advantage of, and all of the good people in the vVv community that are ignorant to what vVv truely is about. If anything, I feel that I have actually gained a lot from this whole experience. I've learn that things are not always as they seem, that there are bad organizations out there, that will take advantage of you. I feel as if I'm wiser.



Most importantly though, I've gain the friendship of the Aspire team, who I am still involved with, and continue to train with. I feel like if I had to go through this process alone, it would be no where near as bearable.



One last thing. Something that SalvorMallow did not mention in his post, when Nub was removed from vVv, effectively wasting 2 month of his time, Salvor bought Nub a new steelseries mouse, with money out of his own pocket, and shipped it to him, as a token of his appreciation to Nub. I feel the worst for Sal in this whole fiasco, the only thing I was constantly sure of, was that Salvor would have the players backs, and that he would do everything in his power to help them, even if it ment he'd have to take it for the team. He is everything you could want in a manager and more, and I genuinely hope that this whole ordeal does not end up hurting him. McKay want's to take it? TELL MCKAY TO GO FUCK HIMSELF

Torte de Lini Profile Blog Joined September 2010 Germany 30668 Posts Last Edited: 2013-01-29 18:47:40 #17 Nooborghini: How close do you live to ETS? Sucks that all that shit happened, but I live diagonally from the ETS venue and can have you stay at my place if you still can afford to go there and compete (I'll provide you with food/cooking & lodging).



No charge, just figured my couch would enjoy someone's tired soul on it.



Oh and vVv sucks, LordJerith is completely incompetent, I didn't expect his crew of "upper management" to be any better. https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)

t e a C h e r Profile Joined January 2013 Canada 150 Posts #18 NuBrGNi, barely even plays, This season he has less than 10 games, Then he wonders why vVv ain't paying/supporting....



If I was invited to play for vVv, i'd just play, no complaints no posts on TL.



You are privileged to play for a decent team like vVv, they aren't on the lvl of col or EG, so you can't expect much.



argggg , people think they deserve what they have not earned. @bullscent , twitch: teacherwish

SalvorMallow Profile Joined May 2010 United States 15 Posts #19 On January 30 2013 03:46 t e a C h e r wrote:

NuBrGNi, barely even plays, This season he has less than 10 games, Then he wonders why vVv ain't paying/supporting....



If I was invited to play for vVv, i'd just play, no complaints no posts on TL.



You are privileged to play for a decent team like vVv, they aren't on the lvl of col or EG, so you can't expect much.



argggg , people think they deserve what they have not earned.



Like most players, he has a smurf that he ladders on. Like most players, he has a smurf that he ladders on.

t e a C h e r Profile Joined January 2013 Canada 150 Posts #20 On January 30 2013 03:47 SalvorMallow wrote:

Show nested quote +

On January 30 2013 03:46 t e a C h e r wrote:

NuBrGNi, barely even plays, This season he has less than 10 games, Then he wonders why vVv ain't paying/supporting....



If I was invited to play for vVv, i'd just play, no complaints no posts on TL.



You are privileged to play for a decent team like vVv, they aren't on the lvl of col or EG, so you can't expect much.



argggg , people think they deserve what they have not earned.



Like most players, he has a smurf that he ladders on. Like most players, he has a smurf that he ladders on.



I'm sure he does, but most pros still get GM or at least have more than 10 games, on their main account, each season.... I'm sure he does, but most pros still get GM or at least have more than 10 games, on their main account, each season.... @bullscent , twitch: teacherwish

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