evoorhees



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LegendaryActivity: 1008Merit: 1005Democracy is the original 51% attack [ON HOLD - 300 BTC] Make a bitcointalk forum plugin to allow tipping via BTC December 11, 2012, 11:43:20 PM

Last edit: March 30, 2013, 03:29:37 PM by evoorhees #1



This concept needs to be made for forums as well. Let's start with BitcoinTalk.org.



I'm hereby offering a bounty of 300 btc to the person who:



A) makes such a system for BitcoinTalk

B) Gets it approved/integrated into this forum



This forum is built on the simplemachines platform... I assume a plugin for this site could then be applied to others?



The way you will win this bounty is by me tipping you in this forum for 300 btc when completed



Thoughts? Comments? Entrepreneurs? We've seen the awesomeness of the Reddit tipping bot. http://www.reddit.com/r/bitcointip/comments/13iykn/bitcointipdocumentation/ This concept needs to be made for forums as well. Let's start with BitcoinTalk.org.I'm hereby offering a bounty of 300 btc to the person who:A) makes such a system for BitcoinTalkB) Gets it approved/integrated into this forumThis forum is built on the simplemachines platform... I assume a plugin for this site could then be applied to others?The way you will win this bounty is by me tipping you in this forum for 300 btc when completedThoughts? Comments? Entrepreneurs?

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Hero MemberActivity: 882Merit: 1004 Re: [BOUNTY 300 BTC] Make a bitcointalk forum plugin to allow tipping via BTC December 12, 2012, 12:04:21 AM #4 If this was made as an SMF plugin, it would need to be applied by Theymos, but, more importantly, BTCTalk would have to host the wallet file. It would also have a much nicer interface than if it was made into a bot.



If this was made a bot, what would happen is the bot would have its own account on the forums which it logs into, and users could send commands via pm (for balance checking, depositing, withdrawing) and also tip people by posting +bitcointip <username> <amount> in a thread, like how the reddit bot works. The bot & wallet could be hosted elsewhere & could work without specifically needing permission from Theymos (unless he bans the account of course). This is how reddit tip works.



Would you be prepared to host the bot?



I could make this easily enough either way, and could host the bot myself if need be, but just want to make sure we do this the right way. My PGP key: 0x5C34AC7629163393 || Keybase

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AdministratorLegendaryActivity: 3878Merit: 7917 Re: [BOUNTY 300 BTC] Make a bitcointalk forum plugin to allow tipping via BTC December 12, 2012, 12:57:12 AM #7 I've thought about this before as a forum feature. It would be kind of cool, but I haven't done it for these reasons:

- I predict that people won't use the feature very much. Donation addresses in signatures rarely receive much BTC. (Reddit's bitcointip will eventually lose popularity, I think.)

- If the donation amount is displayed, something needs to prevent people from inflating the number by donating to themselves.

- Running a Bitcoin client requires quite a bit of work to make sure the client is updated, it doesn't die, most of the BTC is held in cold storage, etc.

- I don't want anyone to use the forum as an E-Wallet. That's not the forum's purpose, and there might be legal risks associated with doing this.



Bots can't be posting in threads because such posts would be off-topic. Any posts by humans consisting entirely of bot commands would also be off-topic. Bots can use PMs as long as PM recipients have some way of unsubscribing from all of the bot's PMs.



I've been thinking about creating a forum API to make it easier to create bots, collect stats, etc. I need to think carefully about how best to do this, since I want the interface to stay the same when the forum moves away from SMF. 1NXYoJ5xU91Jp83XfVMHwwTUyZFK64BoAD

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Full MemberActivity: 125Merit: 100 Re: [BOUNTY 300 BTC] Make a bitcointalk forum plugin to allow tipping via BTC December 12, 2012, 01:00:16 AM #8 Quote from: gweedo on December 12, 2012, 12:07:59 AM Someone would probably want it to be python (best web scrapping libraries) since there is no api, and you have to do a lot of scrapping, but I think if someone was to make a tipping bot they would have to clear it with theymos first. Since this bot would use a lot of bandwidth and could be confused for a DDOS attack.



Wouldn't necessarily have to be too bad, use a little logo/emote as part of the tip command and it could zero in on just the pages it needs to check. Would have to think through the details but with a well-crafted javascript bookmarklet you may even be able to sign an image url and have the tipping bot work almost completely passively from the image hits. (And if you figure out how the recipient gets specified/detected it could potentially work on any page anywhere) Wouldn't necessarily have to be too bad, use a little logo/emote as part of the tip command and it could zero in on just the pages it needs to check. Would have to think through the details but with a well-crafted javascript bookmarklet you may even be able to sign an image url and have the tipping bot work almost completely passively from the image hits. (And if you figure out how the recipient gets specified/detected it could potentially work on any page anywhere) http://bitcoindarts.movoda.net/?partner=16zoADRmmdripnGuXQ2meNv44ZJeTGv9uh

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LegendaryActivity: 1484Merit: 1000 Re: [BOUNTY 300 BTC] Make a bitcointalk forum plugin to allow tipping via BTC December 12, 2012, 01:36:50 AM #9 Quote from: mskwik on December 12, 2012, 01:00:16 AM Quote from: gweedo on December 12, 2012, 12:07:59 AM Someone would probably want it to be python (best web scrapping libraries) since there is no api, and you have to do a lot of scrapping, but I think if someone was to make a tipping bot they would have to clear it with theymos first. Since this bot would use a lot of bandwidth and could be confused for a DDOS attack.



Wouldn't necessarily have to be too bad, use a little logo/emote as part of the tip command and it could zero in on just the pages it needs to check. Would have to think through the details but with a well-crafted javascript bookmarklet you may even be able to sign an image url and have the tipping bot work almost completely passively from the image hits. (And if you figure out how the recipient gets specified/detected it could potentially work on any page anywhere)

Wouldn't necessarily have to be too bad, use a little logo/emote as part of the tip command and it could zero in on just the pages it needs to check. Would have to think through the details but with a well-crafted javascript bookmarklet you may even be able to sign an image url and have the tipping bot work almost completely passively from the image hits. (And if you figure out how the recipient gets specified/detected it could potentially work on any page anywhere)

Kinda building off your idea, I mean this would be a lot of work for the user, but you could in theory make a chrome extension that uses JSON RPC and everyone that installs the extension would be forced to supply a bitcoin address that would be saved to a website/database. Then when your on a thread page, it would gather all the usernames and check to see if they are in the database, and if they are display a button that you can click to quickly donate, it would be a lot of work but could be a solution. Kinda building off your idea, I mean this would be a lot of work for the user, but you could in theory make a chrome extension that uses JSON RPC and everyone that installs the extension would be forced to supply a bitcoin address that would be saved to a website/database. Then when your on a thread page, it would gather all the usernames and check to see if they are in the database, and if they are display a button that you can click to quickly donate, it would be a lot of work but could be a solution.

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AdministratorLegendaryActivity: 3878Merit: 7917 Re: [BOUNTY 300 BTC] Make a bitcointalk forum plugin to allow tipping via BTC December 12, 2012, 05:38:00 AM #11



I'm thinking of an end result something like this:



The first number after "Tip me" is the amount of BTC received for that post (perhaps in bitcents), and the second number is the total amount of BTC that user has received.



I thought about it more and I've decided that I definitely don't want the forum to be an E-Wallet in any way, and a tipping service definitely needs to be an E-Wallet at some level because Bitcoin isn't good for microtransactions. So the tipping stuff needs to be done by a third-party service.



The "tip me" link in the screenshot above will be like:

https://tippingService.com/tip/userID/postID

At that page, users of tippingService.com can send a tip for the specified post. tippingService.com might then alert the recipient via forum PM or email.



The forum will periodically download tip totals for postIDs.



The service should probably charge a fee for every transaction so that people can't endlessly inflate their tip numbers. How can I turn down 100 BTC?I'm thinking of an end result something like this:The first number after "Tip me" is the amount of BTC received for that post (perhaps in bitcents), and the second number is the total amount of BTC that user has received.I thought about it more and I've decided that I definitely don't want the forum to be an E-Wallet in any way, and a tipping service definitely needs to be an E-Wallet at some level because Bitcoin isn't good for microtransactions. So the tipping stuff needs to be done by a third-party service.The "tip me" link in the screenshot above will be like:At that page, users of tippingService.com can send a tip for the specified post. tippingService.com might then alert the recipient via forum PM or email.The forum will periodically download tip totals for postIDs.The service should probably charge a fee for every transaction so that people can't endlessly inflate their tip numbers. 1NXYoJ5xU91Jp83XfVMHwwTUyZFK64BoAD

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LegendaryActivity: 1484Merit: 1000 Re: [BOUNTY 300 BTC] Make a bitcointalk forum plugin to allow tipping via BTC December 12, 2012, 06:23:19 AM #12 The only time the wallet would have to be hot would be for a withdrawal and that could be done every hour only on the backend so it isn't that hot. If you set up a minium amount for withdrawal or move the fee to the withdrawal that would make so people keep there coins in the site longer as well. You could also set a maximum so people can't use it as an e-wallet, but I understand it would just be one more stressful things for you to handle.

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LegendaryActivity: 1526Merit: 1008 Re: [BOUNTY 300 BTC] Make a bitcointalk forum plugin to allow tipping via BTC December 12, 2012, 01:12:34 PM #16 Why would the forum need to host wallets?



Users could just provide the forum software with some public keys and have a consistent way to format bitcoin: URIs. I can imagine an integration with the payment protocol in future to produce signed payment requests. But the money goes directly from tipper to tipee and the forum itself never touches the money. It means to pay a tip is 2 clicks instead of 1 (click the link to open your wallet program, click approve), but once the payment protocol starts rolling out wallet software could be instructed to auto-approve small payments that are signed by the forum.



If you wanted, you could have the forum monitor the block chain and when you see an address be used, switch to the next for better privacy.



I disagree that bitcoin can't handle micropayments, by the way, for the sorts of sizes and frequencies that tippers would consider it should work fine. But in the odd case where it wouldn't, wallets could simply delay the payment until another larger transaction was made and tack it onto that one.



That said, I agree with Theymos on people using it - it's probably better to wait and see if the redditbot has longevity. If it does, analyzing what made it successful where other attempts failed would be useful, then we know exactly what to recreate. For instance, is it convenience? Immediacy? The ability to show off your charity by requiring tip commands to be public?

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LegendaryActivity: 1008Merit: 1005Democracy is the original 51% attack Re: [BOUNTY 300 BTC] Make a bitcointalk forum plugin to allow tipping via BTC December 12, 2012, 02:50:29 PM #17 I think an important feature of the reddit and twitter tipping bots is this: they allow you to tip people who haven't done anything special.



In other words, the recipient doesn't need to have set up a tipping account, or advertised his address anywhere. On reddit you can just send a tip to someone who has never heard of btc, and that's the beauty of it.



So, this potential forum system, probably requires this. This is also why the practice of people putting their btc address in their sig is not equivalent. I want to be able to tip someone who has never solicited it.



I agree the forum shouldn't fuss with building an ewallet to hold the funds for this. Instead, it could use an API to a secure wallet system, like Coinapult.com



Idea:



1) I like a comment Theymos made, so I click the "Tip User" link (maybe similar to how theymos showed in his screenshot)

2) A window pops up, with a BTC address and QR code

3) Upon receipt of btc to that address, the forum emails the user (via coinapult.com api) his donated coins.

4) User claims the coins at his leisure



With this system, the user's email address is never exposed to the public. And, the user never needs to enter a BTC address into his profile. And, the forum doesn't need to host any wallets or store funds at all.



Thoughts?

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LegendaryActivity: 1526Merit: 1008 Re: [BOUNTY 300 BTC] Make a bitcointalk forum plugin to allow tipping via BTC December 12, 2012, 04:29:43 PM #24



It's better to think in terms of purely decentralized solutions rather than relying on branded third party services. Otherwise you're not really addressing theymos' concerns, just moving them around to some other party.



So I'd start by extending the payment protocol (er, once we ship v1) to be able to mark payments as donations. A donation is processed like a regular payment but the output is not marked as spent in the wallet, it's marked as donated instead. Donated payments can be deliberately double-spent after the user clicks through a confirmation screen. This means if the user doesn't pick up the tip and eventually the tipper gets bored and wants his money back, they can do that easily from within their wallet software.



The Payment message would then be extended to contain not only transactions, but also a list of private keys that can correspond to the tx outputs. The client would submit the Payment as normal to a URL on bitcointalk.org which would simply take the submitted data, and send it as an attachment in a mail to the user. Then the forum would forget all about it. Anyone with access to the file can claim the tip, but it'll end up in the users mailbox and nowhere else.



Advantages:



If the forum gets hacked, only newly sent tips can be intercepted and stolen. It'd be easy to set up a bot which tips itself every so often to detect tips that go missing.

The forum is not holding money for anyone, just routing some messages around, so there's no additional legal complexity.

Tips are pure P2P, as fits Bitcoins design

It's a system that's trivial to integrate with any forum, blog, wiki, whatever. As long as the software can accept an HTTP POST and send the attached data to the user via email, you're done.

To go a step further for users who get tipped and want to auto-accept tips in future, with a more complex plugin they can provide the forum with some addresses and the forum can automatically spend the submitted tips to the user themselves. That way they don't have to open the mail attachments. So what happens on reddit if the user never picks up the coins?It's better to think in terms of purely decentralized solutions rather than relying on branded third party services. Otherwise you're not really addressing theymos' concerns, just moving them around to some other party.So I'd start by extending the payment protocol (er, once we ship v1) to be able to mark payments as donations. A donation is processed like a regular payment but the output is not marked as spent in the wallet, it's marked as donated instead. Donated payments can be deliberately double-spent after the user clicks through a confirmation screen. This means if the user doesn't pick up the tip and eventually the tipper gets bored and wants his money back, they can do that easily from within their wallet software.The Payment message would then be extended to contain not only transactions, but also a list of private keys that can correspond to the tx outputs. The client would submit the Payment as normal to a URL on bitcointalk.org which would simply take the submitted data, and send it as an attachment in a mail to the user. Then the forum would forget all about it. Anyone with access to the file can claim the tip, but it'll end up in the users mailbox and nowhere else.Advantages:To go a step further for users who get tipped and want to auto-accept tips in future, with a more complex plugin they can provide the forum with some addresses and the forum can automatically spend the submitted tips to the user themselves. That way they don't have to open the mail attachments.

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AdministratorLegendaryActivity: 3878Merit: 7917 Re: [BOUNTY 300 BTC] Make a bitcointalk forum plugin to allow tipping via BTC December 12, 2012, 05:24:01 PM #27 Quote from: Mike Hearn on December 12, 2012, 01:12:34 PM Why would the forum need to host wallets?



Users could just provide the forum software with some public keys and have a consistent way to format bitcoin: URIs. I can imagine an integration with the payment protocol in future to produce signed payment requests. But the money goes directly from tipper to tipee and the forum itself never touches the money. It means to pay a tip is 2 clicks instead of 1 (click the link to open your wallet program, click approve), but once the payment protocol starts rolling out wallet software could be instructed to auto-approve small payments that are signed by the forum.



If you wanted, you could have the forum monitor the block chain and when you see an address be used, switch to the next for better privacy.



I disagree that bitcoin can't handle micropayments, by the way, for the sorts of sizes and frequencies that tippers would consider it should work fine. But in the odd case where it wouldn't, wallets could simply delay the payment until another larger transaction was made and tack it onto that one.



That said, I agree with Theymos on people using it - it's probably better to wait and see if the redditbot has longevity. If it does, analyzing what made it successful where other attempts failed would be useful, then we know exactly what to recreate. For instance, is it convenience? Immediacy? The ability to show off your charity by requiring tip commands to be public?



IMO an E-Wallet is desirable for this because:

- People can instantly make very small tips without having to pay a large fee (relative to the tip amount). They could even send amounts smaller than 1 satoshi.

- People are more likely to keep any tips they receive in the system if withdrawing their BTC requires a higher fee and more time than sending tips does.

- I think that the best way to prevent people from infinitely inflating their "tips received" count is to charge a percentage fee based on the BTC amount sent. You could do this with Bitcoin transaction fees, but it's more complicated for the sender.



The exact requirements clearly need to be figured out before someone starts working on this. IMO an E-Wallet is desirable for this because:- People can instantly make very small tips without having to pay a large fee (relative to the tip amount). They could even send amounts smaller than 1 satoshi.- People are more likely to keep any tips they receive in the system if withdrawing their BTC requires a higher fee and more time than sending tips does.- I think that the best way to prevent people from infinitely inflating their "tips received" count is to charge a percentage fee based on the BTC amount sent. You could do this with Bitcoin transaction fees, but it's more complicated for the sender.The exact requirements clearly need to be figured out before someone starts working on this. 1NXYoJ5xU91Jp83XfVMHwwTUyZFK64BoAD

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LegendaryActivity: 1526Merit: 1008 Re: [BOUNTY 300 BTC] Make a bitcointalk forum plugin to allow tipping via BTC December 12, 2012, 06:04:33 PM #28 Agreed about requirements, but why would you ever want to tip somebody less than 1 satoshi? That level of value is in the extreme-micropayment range, if I got a 1 satoshi tip I'd take it as an insult!



Do tips really need to double as a reputation system? The goal is to encourage posters to post more, right, not act as a publicly visible measure of reliability. If you just don't display the total amount of tips gathered by a user, or just show a list of usernames that pressed the tip button on a post, then the issue of tipping yourself goes away.

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Sr. MemberActivity: 461Merit: 250 Re: [BOUNTY 300 BTC] Make a bitcointalk forum plugin to allow tipping via BTC December 12, 2012, 06:12:52 PM #29 Quote from: theymos on December 12, 2012, 05:24:01 PM

IMO an E-Wallet is desirable for this because:

- People can instantly make very small tips without having to pay a large fee (relative to the tip amount). They could even send amounts smaller than 1 satoshi.

- People are more likely to keep any tips they receive in the system if withdrawing their BTC requires a higher fee and more time than sending tips does.

- I think that the best way to prevent people from infinitely inflating their "tips received" count is to charge a percentage fee based on the BTC amount sent. You could do this with Bitcoin transaction fees, but it's more complicated for the sender.



The exact requirements clearly need to be figured out before someone starts working on this.

Regarding the last point, the forum could require payment URIs send it a fee in order to publish it, couldn't it? That would solve the tip inflation problem, and provide a source of revenue for the forum.



IMO the decentralized/universal nature of Mike's solution is too beneficial to overlook.



Edit: I didn't think about carefully about how people could cheat that... Regarding the last point, the forum could require payment URIs send it a fee in order to publish it, couldn't it? That would solve the tip inflation problem, and provide a source of revenue for the forum.IMO the decentralized/universal nature of Mike's solution is too beneficial to overlook.Edit: I didn't think about carefully about how people could cheat that...

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AdministratorLegendaryActivity: 3878Merit: 7917 Re: [BOUNTY 300 BTC] Make a bitcointalk forum plugin to allow tipping via BTC December 12, 2012, 06:22:40 PM #30 Quote from: Mike Hearn on December 12, 2012, 06:04:33 PM Agreed about requirements, but why would you ever want to tip somebody less than 1 satoshi? That level of value is in the extreme-micropayment range, if I got a 1 satoshi tip I'd take it as an insult!



Do tips really need to double as a reputation system? The goal is to encourage posters to post more, right, not act as a publicly visible measure of reliability. If you just don't display the total amount of tips gathered by a user, or just show a list of usernames that pressed the tip button on a post, then the issue of tipping yourself goes away.



If someone sends 1 satoshi and the tipping service charges a fee, the recipient will get less than 1 satoshi. Then they might send that amount on to someone else. That's one possibility. I don't know how common that'd be.



I guess I'm not sure what the goal is. Reddit's bitcointip posts whenever someone gets a tip, which advertises the tipping system and gets people excited about Bitcoin. I was thinking that having a public tally of tips would get people interested in a similar way. If someone sends 1 satoshi and the tipping service charges a fee, the recipient will get less than 1 satoshi. Then they might send that amount on to someone else. That's one possibility. I don't know how common that'd be.I guess I'm not sure what the goal is. Reddit's bitcointip posts whenever someone gets a tip, which advertises the tipping system and gets people excited about Bitcoin. I was thinking that having a public tally of tips would get people interested in a similar way. 1NXYoJ5xU91Jp83XfVMHwwTUyZFK64BoAD

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Sr. MemberActivity: 461Merit: 250 Re: [BOUNTY 300 BTC] Make a bitcointalk forum plugin to allow tipping via BTC December 12, 2012, 06:28:35 PM #31 Quote from: d'aniel on December 12, 2012, 06:12:52 PM Regarding the last point, the forum could require payment URIs send it a fee in order to publish it, couldn't it? That would solve the tip inflation problem, and provide a source of revenue for the forum.



IMO the decentralized/universal nature of Mike's solution is too beneficial to overlook.



Edit: I didn't think about carefully about how people could cheat that...

After actually bothering to read the details of Mike's proposal, the forum knows the private keys it's sending, and can withhold and spend enough of them to itself in order to satisfy their fee. It could send the private key of the change address of this fee transaction to itself to the person being tipped.



Edit: Agh in too much of a hurry... The tipper then wouldn't be able to double spend the fee change as desired, so the onus would have to be on him to include a private key with exactly the right amount. After actually bothering to read the details of Mike's proposal, the forum knows the private keys it's sending, and can withhold and spend enough of them to itself in order to satisfy their fee. It could send the private key of the change address of this fee transaction to itself to the person being tipped.Edit: Agh in too much of a hurry... The tipper then wouldn't be able to double spend the fee change as desired, so the onus would have to be on him to include a private key with exactly the right amount.

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Sr. MemberActivity: 461Merit: 250 Re: [BOUNTY 300 BTC] Make a bitcointalk forum plugin to allow tipping via BTC December 12, 2012, 06:53:51 PM

Last edit: December 12, 2012, 07:08:39 PM by d'aniel #33 for a specific post.



With that in mind, the payment URIs contained in the signatures could contain a message labeling the post being tipped (unique URI per post). As well, if the tipper is logged in, the URI could also include a message with the tipper's username. This data would be relayed back to the forum from the tipper so that it knows which post to announce the tip on, and who it came from.



Edit: One last detail about tippers taking the glory, but then double spending their gift: the forum could police this by not sending private keys out to tipees directly, but through blockchain transactions instead. Then if a user retracts their tips within, say, a month, the forum would know it was the tipper and not the tipee spending them, and could take away the tipper's glory privileges going forward.



Okay I'll stop now. Too much coffee this morning I think part of the charm of the Reddit bot is that it makes doing the +1 thing actually meaningful. It's an overt, public show of thanksWith that in mind, the payment URIs contained in the signatures could contain a message labeling the post being tipped (unique URI per post). As well, if the tipper is logged in, the URI could also include a message with the tipper's username. This data would be relayed back to the forum from the tipper so that it knows which post to announce the tip on, and who it came from.Edit: One last detail about tippers taking the glory, but then double spending their gift: the forum could police this by not sending private keys out to tipees directly, but through blockchain transactions instead. Then if a user retracts their tips within, say, a month, the forum would know it was the tipper and not the tipee spending them, and could take away the tipper's glory privileges going forward.Okay I'll stop now. Too much coffee this morning

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LegendaryActivity: 1708Merit: 1005nmc:id/phelix Re: [BOUNTY 300 BTC] Make a bitcointalk forum plugin to allow tipping via BTC December 12, 2012, 07:56:25 PM #34 Quote from: gweedo on December 12, 2012, 12:07:59 AM [...]

you have to do a lot of scrapping, but I think if someone was to make a tipping bot they would have to clear it with theymos first. Since this bot would use a lot of bandwidth and could be confused for a DDOS attack.



cough. for the bitcointalk top16 topics (



It is roughly 25MB per day. Please don't hit me Theymos.





300BTC is a generous bounty but otherwise I think tipping Bitcoins is simply not necessary. That fits a Q&A site much better.





What bitcointalk really needs is a "good post" feature (without "bad post" as we have learned painfully when we tried it right here a quite while ago). it is readily available for smf but theymos said it would harm diversification of opinion or something.





Erik please make the good post feature happen!



cough. for the bitcointalk top16 topics ( http://blockchained.com ) I am already scraping all messages on this forum.It is roughly 25MB per day. Please don't hit me Theymos.300BTC is a generous bounty but otherwise I think tipping Bitcoins is simply not necessary. That fits a Q&A site much better.What bitcointalk really needs is a "good post" feature (without "bad post" as we have learned painfully when we tried it right here a quite while ago). it is readily available for smf but theymos said it would harm diversification of opinion or something.Erik please make the good post feature happen! blockchained.com ■ bitcointalk top posts ■ bitcointalk top posts

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LegendaryActivity: 1246Merit: 1000 Re: [BOUNTY 300 BTC] Make a bitcointalk forum plugin to allow tipping via BTC December 13, 2012, 01:15:40 AM #36 Erik,



As a developer I'd recommend that you change the format a little for medium sized awards like 300 BTC. Bounties are great for quick stuff like "get this to compile on Ubuntu".



Instead ask for proposals and then award the best one the opportunity to do the work. Proposals should contain how the system will work, resumes, how bugs will be fixed, license, and a completion date. If they miss their completion date you have the opportunity to extend or move the offer to someone else.



Offering a coding bounty -- AKA a "race" -- is going to get you shoddy (as fast as possible!) work, people with enough time on their hands to out-race other coders, and who are willing to risk their work being wasted just because someone else was a little faster. But there has never been a time essentially since computers were invented when top quality programmers were not in great demand, so what kind of programmer really wants to grab at this?



Cheers!



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LegendaryActivity: 1246Merit: 1000 Re: [BOUNTY 300 BTC] Make a bitcointalk forum plugin to allow tipping via BTC December 13, 2012, 01:26:49 AM #37



Quote from: thezerg on December 12, 2012, 01:33:09 AM Quote from: sunnankar on December 12, 2012, 12:59:19 AM Quote from: mccorvic on December 12, 2012, 12:24:23 AM It is probably the single greatest thing to happen to BTC adoption rates. Now, if we could find a way to do this for youtube we'd be set.



This is a great idea to expand the tips to YouTube.



Also, how can we integrate it with blog comments? That could become a particularly explosive niche. Perhaps a WordPress plugin that connects to the tip bot that allows it to interact with the blog?

This is a great idea to expand the tips to YouTube.Also, how can we integrate it with blog comments? That could become a particularly explosive niche. Perhaps a WordPress plugin that connects to the tip bot that allows it to interact with the blog?

With or without the help of the hosting site? I was considering this project a few months ago. The basic strategy:



create a website that lets you deposit small amounts of bitcoin or fiat (should be fraud resistant due to deposit limits). And an automated way to create a tip jar.

users puts some btc in the tip jar and then posts a message on the blog, youtube vid, etc. The tip jar can do this automatically for the top 5 sites (youtube,etc).



Problems:



1. Verification of the claimant (how to prove that the person claiming the tip jar actually did post the blog or upload the video)

2. Creating trust in the hosting website (i.e. your service), since it is holding the bitcoin.

3. May bend TOS for sites like youtube and/or be considered spam





Tips would also be a great way to encourage bug fixes in FOSS software.





With or without the help of the hosting site? I was considering this project a few months ago. The basic strategy:create a website that lets you deposit small amounts of bitcoin or fiat (should be fraud resistant due to deposit limits). And an automated way to create a tip jar.users puts some btc in the tip jar and then posts a message on the blog, youtube vid, etc. The tip jar can do this automatically for the top 5 sites (youtube,etc).Problems:1. Verification of the claimant (how to prove that the person claiming the tip jar actually did post the blog or upload the video)2. Creating trust in the hosting website (i.e. your service), since it is holding the bitcoin.3. May bend TOS for sites like youtube and/or be considered spamTips would also be a great way to encourage bug fixes in FOSS software.

Quote from: thezerg on December 12, 2012, 04:55:53 AM Quote from: sunnankar on December 12, 2012, 04:14:15 AM Quote from: thezerg on December 12, 2012, 01:33:09 AM With or without the help of the hosting site? I was considering this project a few months ago.



... The tip jar can do this automatically for the top 5 sites (youtube,etc).



The WordPress plugin would be installed on each individual blog but report back with the server for the tipbot. Then the plugin could ping the tipbot when a tip needs to be verified and processed. The tipbots would also be able to monitor the sites (but don't eat too much bandwidth!) where the plugin is installed. Perhaps have a blogger API key for installation.



This would solve a need that bloggers have with a way to interact with and reward the community that develops around their blog. Good highly quality comments that are rewarded with bitcoins, by either the blogger or other commenters, would be an excellent way to get bitcoins into that community. Then the blogger could sell products, like ebooks, for bitcoins and spend bitcoins on hosting, etc. Plus, it would help bloggers counteract all the trolls from the



What I envision is a WordPress plugin that works kind of like Gravatar or Disquis where a commenter can create an identity in one place but have it show up in multiple places. 'Facebook comments' has tried to do this but most bloggers do not want their nasty code intertwining with their website. Comment sections often have great content but it is just really hard to find and weed through all the trash. People could make their tipping history public and then others could see where the insightful comments are.

The WordPress plugin would be installed on each individual blog but report back with the server for the tipbot. Then the plugin could ping the tipbot when a tip needs to be verified and processed. The tipbots would also be able to monitor the sites (but don't eat too much bandwidth!) where the plugin is installed. Perhaps have a blogger API key for installation.This would solve a need that bloggers have with a way to interact with and reward the community that develops around their blog. Good highly quality comments that are rewarded with bitcoins, by either the blogger or other commenters, would be an excellent way to get bitcoins into that community. Then the blogger could sell products, like ebooks, for bitcoins and spend bitcoins on hosting, etc. Plus, it would help bloggers counteract all the trolls from the Air Force's blog commenter program What I envision is a WordPress plugin that works kind of like Gravatar or Disquis where a commenter can create an identity in one place but have it show up in multiple places. 'Facebook comments' has tried to do this but most bloggers do not want their nasty code intertwining with their website. Comment sections often have great content but it is just really hard to find and weed through all the trash. People could make their tipping history public and then others could see where the insightful comments are.

Its an interesting proposal. A generic tipbot server and then custom integrations with the top sites that solves issues like identity validation. Last summer it was questionable (in my mind) whether these sites and the public would be "friendly" towards this kind of thing (as opposed to seeing it as some form of spam) but the reddit tipbot and the recent spate of legitimizing news may make the difference.



I wonder if SAAS APIs exist to integrate this with existing online wallets (blockchain, etc)... if so the job becomes a lot easier -- you wouldn't even need to handle the BTC and the additional development care and ongoing security maintenance that that implies. Regardless, I expect the BTC held by this tipbot would be pretty limited and so not a great target for thieves.



Its an interesting proposal. A generic tipbot server and then custom integrations with the top sites that solves issues like identity validation. Last summer it was questionable (in my mind) whether these sites and the public would be "friendly" towards this kind of thing (as opposed to seeing it as some form of spam) but the reddit tipbot and the recent spate of legitimizing news may make the difference.I wonder if SAAS APIs exist to integrate this with existing online wallets (blockchain, etc)... if so the job becomes a lot easier -- you wouldn't even need to handle the BTC and the additional development care and ongoing security maintenance that that implies. Regardless, I expect the BTC held by this tipbot would be pretty limited and so not a great target for thieves. And let me just leave this here (from the reddit bitcoin tipper discussion) to encourage any interested developer to make a solution that can be easily extended to other services:

evoorhees



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LegendaryActivity: 1008Merit: 1005Democracy is the original 51% attack Re: [BOUNTY 300 BTC] Make a bitcointalk forum plugin to allow tipping via BTC December 13, 2012, 03:42:37 AM #38 Quote from: Mike Hearn on December 12, 2012, 06:04:33 PM

Do tips really need to double as a reputation system? The goal is to encourage posters to post more, right, not act as a publicly visible measure of reliability. If you just don't display the total amount of tips gathered by a user, or just show a list of usernames that pressed the tip button on a post, then the issue of tipping yourself goes away.



I think it'd be cool if the tips doubled as a reputation system. Right now, forum users have their post count shown, which builds a rep somewhat... but showing an amount others paid to you for your wisdom would be far more valuable.



But yeah, there does need to be a defense against tipping oneself in this case. I think it'd be cool if the tips doubled as a reputation system. Right now, forum users have their post count shown, which builds a rep somewhat... but showing an amount others paid to you for your wisdom would be far more valuable.But yeah, there does need to be a defense against tipping oneself in this case.

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LegendaryActivity: 1008Merit: 1005Democracy is the original 51% attack Re: [BOUNTY 300 BTC] Make a bitcointalk forum plugin to allow tipping via BTC December 13, 2012, 03:48:21 AM #40 Quote from: thezerg on December 13, 2012, 01:15:40 AM Erik,



As a developer I'd recommend that you change the format a little for medium sized awards like 300 BTC. Bounties are great for quick stuff like "get this to compile on Ubuntu".



Instead ask for proposals and then award the best one the opportunity to do the work. Proposals should contain how the system will work, resumes, how bugs will be fixed, license, and a completion date. If they miss their completion date you have the opportunity to extend or move the offer to someone else.



Offering a coding bounty -- AKA a "race" -- is going to get you shoddy (as fast as possible!) work, people with enough time on their hands to out-race other coders, and who are willing to risk their work being wasted just because someone else was a little faster. But there has never been a time essentially since computers were invented when top quality programmers were not in great demand, so what kind of programmer really wants to grab at this?



Cheers!





I think you're right about this.



Anyone have a problem with this format? I'll approve a proposal, and then if it's completed successfully I'll pay the bounty. But, you have to get my proposal sign off first. Any issues with this? I think you're right about this.Anyone have a problem with this format? I'll approve a proposal, and then if it's completed successfully I'll pay the bounty. But, you have to get my proposal sign off first. Any issues with this?

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Hero MemberActivity: 938Merit: 1000 Re: [BOUNTY 300 BTC] Make a bitcointalk forum plugin to allow tipping via BTC December 13, 2012, 10:33:12 AM #44



The system would exist of two parts. On the one hand would be a website (service) with an API interface and on the other hand a plugin for SMF that talks to this API. The plan is to create both pieces of code so they can work neatly together.



As a forum member this is how tipping would work.







Each post has an unique 'tip link' that you can press to send a tip to author of the post, specifically for that post.



If you press the 'tip link' one of two things can happen.

If you already tipped before : you will get a small modal with an input box that mentions your current balance and asks you how much want to tip.

: you will get a small modal with an input box that mentions your current balance and asks you how much want to tip. If you have not tipped before: you will instead receive a message your tipping account has been activated and you will be presented with a bitcoin address to fund your account.



Tipping will only be possible if your account is funded either by depositing money or by receiving tips.



If you send tips to an account which is not activated yet the system will simply hold the coins for you. Since you send the internal forum user id with each tip you can later redeem an account if you wish to active your own tipping account, the funds will be automatically in your account at that point.



Tipping yourself is not possible the tip link won't show on posts that are your own. And even if you try to bypass that we can do an extra check on the server side since we have the internal forum id.



Behind the scenes the forum software should do a query to the API service (on cron) to retrieve all tips made and save this in a local table to be used as cache so the tips can be shown on the forum. It will show a total amount received on the left side of the post where general user info is displayed. And the amount of tips received for that post will be displayed next to the date of the post since this is post specific information.







I've been thinking and prototyping over the last 24 hours with my business partner (I know stupid word) and I think we've come up with a plan that solves most of the issues concerns mentioned here on the forums. We want to make it public now to get some constructive feedback and see if we indeed covered all bases. I will try to not get into too much technical details.The system would exist of two parts. On the one hand would be a website (service) with an API interface and on the other hand a plugin for SMF that talks to this API. The plan is to create both pieces of code so they can work neatly together.As a forum member this is how tipping would work.Each post has an unique 'tip link' that you can press to send a tip to author of the post, specifically for that post.If you press the 'tip link' one of two things can happen.Tipping will only be possible if your account is funded either by depositing money or by receiving tips.If you send tips to an account which is not activated yet the system will simply hold the coins for you. Since you send the internal forum user id with each tip you can later redeem an account if you wish to active your own tipping account, the funds will be automatically in your account at that point.Tipping yourself is not possible the tip link won't show on posts that are your own. And even if you try to bypass that we can do an extra check on the server side since we have the internal forum id.Behind the scenes the forum software should do a query to the API service (on cron) to retrieve all tips made and save this in a local table to be used as cache so the tips can be shown on the forum. It will show a total amount received on the left side of the post where general user info is displayed. And the amount of tips received for that post will be displayed next to the date of the post since this is post specific information. Electrum : the convenience of a web wallet, without the risks | Bytesized Seedboxes BTC/LTC supported

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LegendaryActivity: 1246Merit: 1000 Re: [BOUNTY 300 BTC] Make a bitcointalk forum plugin to allow tipping via BTC December 13, 2012, 03:08:24 PM #45 seems good from a user's perspective. 4 suggestions:

put typical tip amounts in the dialog box so we don't have to type numbers in

refund if not claimed within a month

put the tip destination address in the box so we don't have to hold btc in your service if we don't want to. So tipping direct is inconvenient but possible.

Limit the total tip amount to slow down thieves -- just an added protection alongside the fact that there should not be too many btc in your tipping act

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LegendaryActivity: 1246Merit: 1000 Re: [BOUNTY 300 BTC] Make a bitcointalk forum plugin to allow tipping via BTC December 15, 2012, 05:39:44 PM #49 Quote from: Nyhm on December 13, 2012, 08:15:41 PM Quote from: evoorhees on December 13, 2012, 03:48:21 AM Quote from: thezerg on December 13, 2012, 01:15:40 AM Erik,



As a developer I'd recommend that you change the format a little for medium sized awards like 300 BTC. Bounties are great for quick stuff like "get this to compile on Ubuntu".



Instead ask for proposals and then award the best one the opportunity to do the work. Proposals should contain how the system will work, resumes, how bugs will be fixed, license, and a completion date. If they miss their completion date you have the opportunity to extend or move the offer to someone else.



Offering a coding bounty -- AKA a "race" -- is going to get you shoddy (as fast as possible!) work, people with enough time on their hands to out-race other coders, and who are willing to risk their work being wasted just because someone else was a little faster. But there has never been a time essentially since computers were invented when top quality programmers were not in great demand, so what kind of programmer really wants to grab at this?



Cheers!





I think you're right about this.



Anyone have a problem with this format? I'll approve a proposal, and then if it's completed successfully I'll pay the bounty. But, you have to get my proposal sign off first. Any issues with this?

I think you're right about this.Anyone have a problem with this format? I'll approve a proposal, and then if it's completed successfully I'll pay the bounty. But, you have to get my proposal sign off first. Any issues with this?

I agree with thezerg on this, as well. I'd tip him if there was such a feature. Fast | Cheap | Correct : Choose two



I agree with thezerg on this, as well. I'd tip him if there was such a feature. Fast | Cheap | Correct : Choose two

Thanks! Half my day job is being a "coder-dad" -- I clean up all the junk my people leave behind .

WRT a tip its always appreciated but not necessary! 16ExHi8FZ848JDsDqrGAXgXbyyLWhdDMe9



Erik, I don't know yet if I have the time to propose, but if I don't (that is, you see nothing from me by whenever you decide to decide) then I'd be happy to do a technical review of the proposals.

Thanks! Half my day job is being a "coder-dad" -- I clean up all the junk my people leave behindWRT a tip its always appreciated but not necessary! 16ExHi8FZ848JDsDqrGAXgXbyyLWhdDMe9Erik, I don't know yet if I have the time to propose, but if I don't (that is, you see nothing from me by whenever you decide to decide) then I'd be happy to do a technical review of the proposals.

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Full MemberActivity: 168Merit: 100 Re: [ON HOLD - 300 BTC] Make a bitcointalk forum plugin to allow tipping via BTC April 01, 2013, 10:46:25 PM #68 If anything you could set it up so that there is a wallet of the massive funds held for the forum's development and when someone tips the btc goes to that wallet and that wallet automatically sends an equal amount of btc to the address the person chose and linked to their account in their profile settings.



Just a simple program that understands how to receive BTC, read the intended address, and then send BTC to that address. Me? I'm just the cynical voice floating in the sea of unchecked optimism.