patt2k

join:2009-01-16 patt2k Member Fios #10 Could this be true or netflix is trolling lol.



I am one of the people who don't care about Netflxi at all.



Zenit

The system is the solution

Premium Member

join:2012-05-07

Purcellville, VA 1 recommendation Zenit Premium Member Re: Fios #10 Sure it can be true. The quality of the last mile vs. the quality of the backbone are two different topics. And seeing how cheap VZ is today, what would make them invest in their broadband backbone and peering arrangements, when they wont even maintain their copper network in non-FIOS zones or build out FIOS unless forced to by a local government?



tshirt

Premium Member

join:2004-07-11

Snohomish, WA tshirt Premium Member Re: Fios #10 said by Zenit: when they wont even maintain their copper network in non-FIOS zones

or does it too have an Achilles heel? But it is fios that is notably low (no one is surprised that Verizon DSL sucked) FIBER is (supposedly) the holy grail, unstoppable by the actions of mere mortals...or does it too have an Achilles heel?



norm

join:2012-10-18

Pittsburgh, PA norm Member Re: Fios #10 said by tshirt: or does it too have an Achilles heel? Peering agreements.

jjeffeory

jjeffeory

join:2002-12-04

Bullhead City, AZ jjeffeory Member Re: Fios #10 Haha! I cracked up when I read this, thanks! So true! We've finally found fiber's Achilles heel!



Zenit

The system is the solution

Premium Member

join:2012-05-07

Purcellville, VA 3 recommendations Zenit to tshirt

Premium Member to tshirt

Of course it does have an Achilles heel. The Achilles heel is the equipment on both ends and the network upstream. There are some small CLECs in Western Maryland that offer FTTH. You would think it would be fast, right?

Nope!



Max speed on offer is 6mbit. If its your only choice, well, its better than most DSL or Cellular. But you would expect more from a PON architecture.

Its the backbone that matters when your last mile is great.



Just a bit more bashing of VZ I have to do now - in 1994 VZ (C&P Tel of MD) and the State Gov of MD signed an agreement to move to FTTP in the entire C&P Tel footprint by 2012. VZ has missed this deadline entirely, and they will never meet it. The government seems uninterested in enforcing it, not caring that citizens in the west cant get good broadband*.



*Unless they are lucky (well this is relative) enough to live in a Comcast area. The speeds Comcast offers are above and beyond any of the small CLECs, VZ DSL, or the cute little local Cable Cos.



nothing00

join:2001-06-10

Centereach, NY 3 recommendations nothing00 to tshirt

Member to tshirt

said by tshirt: does it too have an Achilles heel?



When FiOS was originally rolling out it was head and shoulders above what cable could offer. Since dramatically scaling back roll out and investment... cable has caught up even though fiber can easily outperform cable. Yup, investment and maintenance $ dollars.When FiOS was originally rolling out it was head and shoulders above what cable could offer. Since dramatically scaling back roll out and investment... cable has caught up even though fiber can easily outperform cable.



MovieLover76

join:2009-09-11

Cherry Hill, NJ ·Verizon FiOS

(Software) pfSense

Asus RT-AC68

Asus RT-AC66

MovieLover76 to tshirt

Member to tshirt

FIOS offers the ability to be the holy grail, the best a connection can get, however if they don't put the money into the upstream connection it's wasted.



Think of it this way you could conceivably wire and entire town with fiber optic cable and the as an uplink use a t-1.

the fiber has tons of capacity more than one town needs, but if the upstream connection is only 1.44 mbps you aren't going any faster than that.



This is obviously an exaggerated example to prove a point , my fios connection is generally very good and fast but I have problems with netflix sometimes thanks to peering at peak periods, because the upstream connection is saturated, while connections to other points on the internet zoom along.

I don't think my streaming speeds are as bad as 1.9mbps though, I must be lucky because I'm out in the suburbs, I do get pixelated messes at peak times from time to time though, especially during the winter when it's snowing or raining and everyone is indoors.



Verizon should be ashamed of these numbers

dotditdot

join:2009-09-23

New York, NY 6 recommendations dotditdot to patt2k

Member to patt2k

It's very true. I just streamed a movie from Netflix last night on my Fios connection; it was horribly pixelated, almost unwatchable.



tlylework

@76.221.210.x tlylework Anon Re: Fios #10 The intersting thing in all this is AT&T Uverse, which I have, as a family we were streaming two movies Friday night, around 8:00pm EST which I am guessing would be one of the prime times and never had one stutter, and this is Uverse which is way down the pack. Interesting for sure. I hope AT&T doesn't start doing the same thing.

dfxmatt

join:2007-08-21

Crystal Lake, IL 4 recommendations dfxmatt to patt2k

Member to patt2k

then why did you comment as fast as possible as the top post in the thread?



I think you're trolling, not netflix.



Jerry Y

@144.160.226.x Jerry Y Anon Re: Fios #10 I wonder if some of the FiOS problems are bad wi-fi. Netflix was terrible over my wi-fi, but it's been fine since I moved it to ethernet.



norm

join:2012-10-18

Pittsburgh, PA norm Member Re: Fios #10 said by Jerry Y : I wonder if some of the FiOS problems are bad wi-fi. Netflix was terrible over my wi-fi, but it's been fine since I moved it to ethernet. Although some houses might have a poor wi-fi setup, the primary issue is between Verizon and a whole slew of tier 1 transit providers.

jjeffeory

jjeffeory

join:2002-12-04

Bullhead City, AZ jjeffeory to Jerry Y

Member to Jerry Y

Not mine. I'm not a fan of wi-fi security, and wire most everything possible when I have a choice.

silbaco

Premium Member

join:2009-08-03

USA 1 edit 1 recommendation silbaco to dfxmatt

Premium Member to dfxmatt

Guess we will never know. Netflix refuses to release detailed information as to how these results are compiled. But since it is Netflix no one ever questions the accuracy of these results.



odreian615

join:2006-01-18

Chicago, IL odreian615 Member Re: Fios #10 So much of This

jjeffeory

jjeffeory

join:2002-12-04

Bullhead City, AZ jjeffeory to silbaco

Member to silbaco

Not true, but I have more reason to distrust Verizon than Netflix, as Verizon regularly screws me in other aspects of their business; why not this too. They're not Comcast bad, but they're closer to Comcast than to Netflix.



pumpkinhead7

join:2002-06-14

Clarksburg, WV 5 recommendations pumpkinhead7 to patt2k

Member to patt2k

Personally I believe netflix over the ISP any day of the week.

chris92

join:2008-09-20

Coal Valley, IL chris92 Member Re: Fios #10 I wouldn't



tshirt

Premium Member

join:2004-07-11

Snohomish, WA 1 recommendation tshirt Premium Member If you look at the Jan-may graph... ... you can see comcast and fios dip VERY slightly (o.2 mbps?), just enough to drop a spot while charter edged up about the same to past comcast.

An anomaly to be reversed next month? or Netflix punctuating it current PR push?

not much of an event but a little strange given the new agreements...which should have thing gradually but continuously improving.

elefante72

join:2010-12-03

East Amherst, NY elefante72 Member Re: If you look at the Jan-may graph... Whatever the "mystery", there is NO mystery that openconnect providers are near the top. If XYZ sites "mysterious network issues", if they are say hosted in Terremark datacenter, any "mysterious" network issues would be Verizon's fault not some boogeyman.



As to Comcast and the number of subs, it seems almost counter-intuitive to not host intra their net. That is until you factor in greed and money. Of course the only ones who suffer are the subscribers you pay good money to be a pawn.



Verizon just sent me a letter to upgrade to an even faster tier, and why should I if Netflix performs the same regardless of the tier I have because in my case there is no local congestion. On top of that Verizon HSI is not CHEAP, it's the Bentley of HSI prices. This and all their new fees cropping up makes this even more dubious.



MxxCon

join:1999-11-19

Brooklyn, NY 1 recommendation MxxCon Member Re: If you look at the Jan-may graph... OpenConnect is a win-win-win offer. Yet greedy ISPs are interested only in padding their own pockets even if it means stepping over corpses of their customers.



tshirt

Premium Member

join:2004-07-11

Snohomish, WA 1 recommendation tshirt Premium Member Re: If you look at the Jan-may graph... said by MxxCon: OpenConnect is a win-win-win offer

From a net neutral standpoint allowing the MAJOR provider of streaming video to place THEIR CDN cache, with THEIR CONTENT directly on the ISP network certainly disadvantages EVERY OTHER streaming service, with only a couple large but 2nd place streamers (Amazon , and google) capable of requesting/matching the setup.

Little guys/new startups will have even less of a chance of competing.

Also cost wise how is it worse for Netflix to arrange whatever transport they wish to a CDN cache box at a dc just off the ISP network and pay the interconnect fees vs paying however they want for transport plus the interconnect fees to reach the on ISP network box? at least the just off network box, IF in Netflix opinion is under utilized they can serve others in that local market...I doubt ANY ISP would want/allow the open connect box the host to be used to serve other off the network.

I think the FCC MAY have it right Net neutrality and paid interconnects are different issue that MAY conflict some of the time but not always. I'm not sure it is.From a net neutral standpoint allowing the MAJOR provider of streaming video to place THEIR CDN cache, with THEIR CONTENT directly on the ISP network certainly disadvantages EVERY OTHER streaming service, with only a couple large but 2nd place streamers (Amazon , and google) capable of requesting/matching the setup.Little guys/new startups will have even less of a chance of competing.Also cost wise how is it worse for Netflix to arrange whatever transport they wish to a CDN cache box at a dc just off the ISP network and pay the interconnect fees vs paying however they want for transport plus the interconnect fees to reach the on ISP network box? at least the just off network box, IF in Netflix opinion is under utilized they can serve others in that local market...I doubt ANY ISP would want/allow the open connect box the host to be used to serve other off the network.I think the FCC MAY have it right Net neutrality and paid interconnects are different issue that MAY conflict some of the time but not always.



MxxCon

join:1999-11-19

Brooklyn, NY ARRIS TM822

Actiontec MI424WR Rev. I

MxxCon Member Re: If you look at the Jan-may graph... said by tshirt: Also cost wise how is it worse for Netflix to arrange whatever transport they wish to a CDN cache box at a dc just off the ISP network and pay the interconnect fees vs paying however they want for transport plus the interconnect fees to reach the on ISP network box? at least the just off network box, IF in Netflix opinion is under utilized they can serve others in that local market... what?



Pathfinder5

Dazed Confused

Premium Member

join:2000-03-26

New York, NY Pathfinder5 to tshirt

Premium Member to tshirt

In Jan Verizon FIOS was at a 1.76. Apr they jumped to 1.99. Now all the way down to 1.9. Not a significant difference.



tshirt

Premium Member

join:2004-07-11

Snohomish, WA tshirt Premium Member Re: If you look at the Jan-may graph... Which may mean their direct connections are still incomplete.

but it also shows NF may be pushing all the elevator buttons just for fun/to cause trouble, rather then quietly helping their new PARTNER get up to speed.



RockCake

Premium Member

join:2005-07-12

Woodbridge, VA 1 recommendation RockCake Premium Member Deal? What deal? All I know is, since this alleged "deal", my performance is no better than it was, in fact it's worse. After 6pm Netflix is simply unwatchable.

My term with Verizon is up at the end of the month, I can either hope for improvement or switch to (gasp!) Comcast...!

AVonGauss

Premium Member

join:2007-11-01

Boynton Beach, FL AVonGauss Premium Member Re: Deal? What deal? I don't believe the NetFlix / Verizon interconnects are implemented yet. The reason why Comcast users experienced a more "instantaneous" result I believe is because NetFlix and Comcast had already been working for months to set up the interconnects in advance of the actual deal being "signed".



gadz2001

@24.24.5.x gadz2001 Anon speeds These numbers are not an accurate portrayal of service from the ISPs, I work for an ISP and I dont get too many calls for netflix issues, but with these numbers are the ones having issues only subscribed to a 2Mbps service and trying to stream HD? If so its not the ISPs fault. I have run on quite a few calls for that Issue when they want to stream HD and they only have 768K connection, usually they tell me they are trying to do multiple streams as well.

Skippy25

join:2000-09-13

Hazelwood, MO Skippy25 Member Re: speeds I would say those numbers are 100% an accurate portrayal of service for Netflix from Netflix's side.



You clearly do not understand how Netflix works with your statement and are not being very honest if you are going to state you "run on quite a few calls" for people not being able to stream HD on a 768k connection.



If someone is subscribed to a 6mbps+ service, they should have absolutely no problem streaming Netflix EVER. 768k will probably virtually never work with any kind of quality on NF, thus those users are probably already fully aware they can't get and never have gotten HD from anything on the web.



gadz2001

@24.24.5.x gadz2001 Anon Re: speeds OK Skippy I have 20Mbps service at my house I have used Netflix streaming since it was offered, I have never had a streaming issue and I work for a low ranked ISP on that list. In my 14 years or doing what I do I have never had rolled to someones house whose service was working 100% the way it should for buffering issues on netflix unless they were subscribed to a lower tier service. What I want to know is are they showing the average connection speed the customer has is 2Mbps but are they getting this and only subscribed to a 2Mbps service or are they paying for 20 like me and only seeing 2. It makes the world of difference in their argument.

jjeffeory

jjeffeory

join:2002-12-04

Bullhead City, AZ jjeffeory to gadz2001

Member to gadz2001

I wasn't aware that FiOS had a 2Mbps service.



batman

@50.182.54.x batman Anon Is Netflix choosing bad interconnection points to make a PR point? "Netflix does not purposely select congested routes," says Netflix. "We pay some of the worlds largest transit networks to deliver Netflix video right to the front door of an ISP. Where the problem occurs is at that door -- the interconnection point -- when the broadband provider hasn't provided enough capacity to accommodate the traffic their customer requested." Is it possible that Netflix, who decides the route to an ISPs interconnection points, is picking congested interconnection points, instead of more open interconnection points. I believe Netflix is just as capable of skulduggery as is Verizon or Comcast in the interests of lowering their costs, even if it increases their partners costs.

elray

join:2000-12-16

Santa Monica, CA elray Member The public will only buy this so long... Hastings can continue to try to pin all blame on the ISPs, but if it continues much longer, the public is going to smell a rat.



I'm rather surprised that very few on this forum, and no one in the media has even considered that Netflix' insistence on OpenConnect and the Name & Shame campaign is equally if not more reprehensible than the so-called tolls that the ISPs are asking to compensate them for the disproportionate traffic volumes generated exclusively by Netflix. After all, Reed claims to be a Republican, and Netflix is the largest streaming corporation, with a market cap of $25 Billion.



Cabal

Premium Member

join:2007-01-21 Cabal Premium Member Google Fiber off the default list As many here have complained about before, Google Fiber is now included in the "smaller ISPs" list.



Galiant

@71.104.48.x -1 recommendation Galiant Anon What slowdowns? I use my full connection for netflix on fios? What is this bull shit?