Michael Brissenden reported this story on Thursday, August 18, 2016 08:08:15

MICHAEL BRISSENDEN: The announcement that the Manus Island Processing Centre is closing has so far resulted in few answers for the 850 men living there.



The Immigration Minister, Peter Dutton, has confirmed the Centre will be closed but hasn't said when that will happen.



Labor is pushing him to spell out how much money Papua New Guinea will be paid to resettle refugees from the centre.



While pressure is growing to find another nation to accept them, Mr Dutton insists that the deal is that the 850 men should be resettled in Papua New Guinea.



The Guardian is also reporting today that back in May, senior figures in the Government including the Prime Minister, the Attorney-General and the Immigration Minister received a dossier of thousands of incident reports that detailed "numerous child rights violations" on Nauru.



I'm joined now by the Minister for Immigration and Border Protection, Peter Dutton.



Peter Dutton, good morning.



PETER DUTTON: Good morning Michael.



MICHAEL BRISSENDEN: Firstly, to Manus, more than 850 men still there, what's going happens to them now?



PETER DUTTON: Well, under the agreement that was struck by Labor, if people are found to be owed protection, that is they are refugees then the arrangement is that they are to settle in PNG and we're going to honour that arrangement.



The PNG government entered into that arrangement with the Labor government of the day and we need to provide support to help settle those people but we've been very clear that people will not settle in Australia and we don't want people smugglers to be out there playing with this announcement, suggesting that the time now is to hope on a boat.



That's what happened under Labor's time when they lost control of our borders and we're not going to return to those days.



MICHAEL BRISSENDEN: So they're not our responsibility, it's up to PNG to sort out their fate?



PETER DUTTON: Well, that's the agreement that Labor struck with the PNG government at the time - bearing in mind that there were tens of thousands of people who were arriving on boats, 1,200 people drowned at sea.



We've been able to restore order to our borders. We have got every child out of detention, we've closed 17 mainland detention centres and this really is another dividend of that success within Operation Sovereign Borders.



We want to treat people with dignity and provide them with support, but we have to be very clear and consistent in our messaging and that is that these people will never be settled in Australia.



MICHAEL BRISSENDEN: But essentially, we're just walking away from them, we're leaving it to PNG to be solely responsible for them from this point?



PETER DUTTON: No, we're honouring the agreement that was entered into by Labor when they lost control of our borders and this is a very difficult legacy to deal with. This will take years and literally billions of dollars to deal with Labor's legacy on border control loss.



People drowned at sea, as I say. We don't ever want to return to those days.



And we do know through the intelligence - including open source intelligence - that the people smugglers were preparing to put people on boats if Labor was re-elected, and they are trying to put syndicates together now, trying to take money off people.



And frankly the people smugglers couldn't care less whether the boats make it to Australia or they go to the bottom of the ocean and this Government is not going to tolerate that sort of violence and that sort of terrible outcome.



No Australian wants that and we have restored integrity to our borders and we aren't going to surrender it.



MICHAEL BRISSENDEN: But you do now have 850 people on Manus Island that we are essentially paying for, Australian taxpayers have been paying for them to be there.



They've been there now for three years, they haven't been resettled. It just hasn't happened, has it?



PETER DUTTON: Well, many people have returned home. Hundreds have returned home, Michael, as you'd be aware. Some have moved into PNG society ...



MICHAEL BRISSENDEN: Well, not many though. How many have actually moved into PNG society?



PETER DUTTON: Well, quite a low number as you say, less than 20. But the reality is hundreds have gone home and we provide thousands of dollars of taxpayer's assistance to provide packages of support to help those people return back to their country of origin and many hundreds have done that.



Now, in cases like Sri Lanka, Vietnam, other countries like India, we have arrangements where if people refuse to go home, if they've been found not to be refugees that they can be forcibly returned.



With Iran, for example, that's not the case. They'll take voluntary but not involuntary returns and many hundreds have returned voluntarily to Iran but people are making a decision in Manus, on Nauru at the moment to say that they don't want to return even if they've been found not to be a refugee and we can't accept that situation.



We have a look at these people to help them return back to their country of origin or they settle in PNG. They are the two options available to these people.



MICHAEL BRISSENDEN: But how realistic is it that they're going to resettle in PNG? As you say, less than 20 have resettled so far. Half of them, apparently, have actually tried to come back and readmit themselves into the facility - so clearly it's not working, is it?



And of the 540 or so that have been assessed by PNG, 98 per cent of them have been found to be refugees but even they haven't been resettled.



PETER DUTTON: Well, one of the difficulties of course, Michael, is that we have advocates who think they're well intentioned here in Australia who keep messaging, sending Facebook messages and social media messages saying don't accept the settlement package, stay in the centre because eventually the Australian Government will change its mind and you'll come and settle in Australia.



I mean that has been very counterproductive and the very people they're trying to help, unfortunately they're trapping them in a situation which is not desirable.



I do want to see people treated well. I do want to see people returned to their countries of origin but I don't want to see the people trade start up again where people drown at sea and they're the options that we're left with.



There are many cheap seats in this debate but for those of us who have to make tough decisions about saving lives at sea, about making sure that we can treat people with respect and dignity, these are the tough decisions that we make each day.



And academics, and people from the ABC and the Guardian offering up free advice on how people should stay and not accept or take a different course of action, its counterproductive.



I want to work with these people to help them return to their country of origin, or to help them settle successfully in PNG as many people do, or if they've got some other option available then we're happy to consider that but there is no third country option available for people out of Manus at this point in time.



That's the reality that we deal with but under no circumstance am I going to allow people smugglers to take money from women and children to be on boats that end up on the bottom of the ocean.



We've got every child out of detention, we've closed 17 detention centres on the mainland that Labor opened and I believe that has been a great dividend of Operation Sovereign Borders and the closure of Manus will be the next dividend in the success of stopping the boats.



MICHAEL BRISSENDEN: Clearly one of the reasons they don't want to be resettled in Papua New Guinea or that they're having such difficulty doing so is that they don't have the support services they need when they do try and resettle. Many of them ...



PETER DUTTON: That is complete rubbish, Michael. I don't know where you would get that from because the Australian taxpayer provides significant support around the transition centre at East Lorengau, we provide transition support, we provide training, we provide accommodation, three meals a day, we provide support around local language, we provide support to get into work - all sorts of measures that are funded by the Australian taxpayer and that's the reality on the ground.



MICHAEL BRISSENDEN: Well some of them are saying- It's been reported - I certainly haven't spoken to them myself, but it's been reported that they have tried to get access to mental health services, they haven't been able to, the support networks aren't there for them. Is that not true?



PETER DUTTON: Well, the ABC reporting on the Guardian's reports who report on the ABC reports do not help people in these centres and ...



MICHAEL BRISSENDEN: Well, no, I'm just asking you the question whether it's true or not. You can tell me it's not if it's not.



PETER DUTTON: Well, where did you source this information from?



MICHAEL BRISSENDEN: Well, I'm telling you: I sourced it out of reports that I've read.



PETER DUTTON: Well, I'd be interested to get from you where they've come from because we provide significant support for people in those centres to transition either back to their country of origin or to- if they're going to settle in PNG or Cambodia for example, to help them with support and settlement services.



In fact, the US says to Australia that we are one of the best countries in the world in terms of the resettlement services that we provide when we settle refugees in our own country, and we provide significant support to PNG and to Nauru to provide these services.



There is a lot of misinformation because many advocates are completely opposed to Operation Sovereign Borders, to turning back boats, to regional processing centres.



They want an open border arrangement. Well, this government has been elected to secure our borders, to keep our country safe, to stop people drowning at sea, to get children out of detention and to clean up Labor's mess and that's exactly what we're doing.



MICHAEL BRISSENDEN: Alright, just quickly on these reports about Nauru, is it true, as reported today in the Guardian that you received these dossiers about the child's rights and numerous- what was quoted as "numerous child's right violations" that had occurred on Nauru. Did you receive that information in May?



PETER DUTTON: Well, again to comment on the ABC commenting on the Guardian reports...



MICHAEL BRISSENDEN: Well, that's a bit, that's a bit unfair. I'm just asking you if the reports are true or not?



PETER DUTTON: We received correspondence from Save the Children, as we do on a regular basis. They've leaked the documents, the 2,100 documents that the Guardian is reporting that the ABC now reports on and we will look at each of those cases.



I've spent much of my professional career investigating sexual assaults and assaults against people and arresting people for that.



I take these issues very seriously and like all Australians, I completely abhor any violence, particularly of a sexual nature against any people in particular women and children. So I take these issues very seriously.



But the trouble, frankly with the approach of the Guardian and the ABC has been to trivialise the very serious issues by trying to promote the 2,100 reports as somehow, all of those being serious when they're not.



Many of those reports relate to corporal punishment by children by their own parents. They report about some minor assaults by detainees on detainees, refugees on refugees.



So we are going through all of that information. It doesn't help that in the files that were leaked by Save the Children, they've only put out a redacted version. We've asked them for all of the details.



Of course, because they're running a political campaign, they haven't released that information, won't provide it to the department. So we're working through each of those files and when I get a proper and complete picture, then I'll make some further comment in relation to it.



But I think people should be a little more circumspect because my desire, the Government's desire is to treat people with dignity, to take all of these issues very seriously and to act accordingly and I'm not going to be defamed by the Guardian and by the ABC because we are doing everything within our power to provide support for people.



As I say, we've got every child out of detention on the mainland. We are working to get people - including and in particular, as a priority, women and children off Nauru and we will continue to do that but there is no point in doing it if the vacancies that we create are quickly filled by new arrivals off boats and people start drowning at sea again.



That is not a situation that I'm going to preside over.



MICHAEL BRISSENDEN: Alright, Peter Dutton, we'll have to leave it there. Thanks very much for joining us.



PETER DUTTON: Thanks Michael, thank you.



MICHAEL BRISSENDEN: The Immigration Minister, Peter Dutton there.