An interview with SextersAnon.com author Unforth

By @unforth-ninawaters​ and @dreamsfromthebunker

In a detailed interview, Unforth reveals what inspired Destiel BDSM series SextersAnon.com; what it took to write the series; tricks for fanfic research; what she thinks the impact of 50 Shades has been on BDSM fanfic, and much, much more. This is a long read people—buckle up! And read on under the cut.

dreamsfromthebunker: For those who haven’t read SextersAnon.com—how would you describe the story beyond the initial summary?

Unforth: Oh man, I’m always garbage at figuring out ways to describe stories that don’t include spoilers. That’s why my summaries are crap! Um…well.

The SextersAnon ‘verse is an exploration of how very wrong under-negotiated kink can go, especially for someone young and naive, and the repercussions that can have as the person gets older. Though the series starts out innocent enough—the first story is basically PWP—it gets heavy in the second story and stays that way for the remainder.

As a young man, Castiel was drawn into a 24/7 total power exchange relationship with his college professor, Naomi, when he knew next to nothing about kink, kink negotiation, or the world of BDSM. Though he eventually escapes her control, it scars him mentally and physically, and due to internalized issues, he’s convinced he’s broken and unsuited to having relationships. However, his desires - both to have sex and to be dominated - don’t fade, and eventually he gives in and decides to try a long distance, anonymous BDSM relationship. That’s how he meets Dean.

Castiel has a lot of misconceptions about how BDSM works due to his previous relationship. The abuse he was subjected to, which was justified as being part of the kink, left him with a lot of baggage. The SextersAnon ‘verse is, ultimately, about the slow of process of Castiel learning about healthy kink, coming to understand and accept that what happened to him when he was young was abuse masquerading as kink, and then how he recovers, with Dean’s help.

There is a lot of dark stuff in there - note the tags for past non-con/rape, and there’s also a lot of graphic scene description, including sadomasochistic content, both consensual and…not so consensual. There’s also some miscommunication. Dean, unsurprisingly, has his own baggage, which doesn’t always lead him to do the right thing. They both want to make their relationship work, though, so they get there eventually. Castiel also gets a lot of support from Charlie and Gilda; Charlie is a dom who owns a sex-shop-slash-LARP-store, and Gilda is her wife, sub, and co-business owner. Seeing their healthy relationship, and having Gilda to speak with about being a sub, is a big help to Castiel as he tries to learn “Safe, Sane and Consensual” and discovers how far his past experience was from that.

And of course there’s a happy ending to make up for all the angst.

What inspired you to write SextersAnon.com further than the prompt you originally got?

The initial inspirations for this story were four-fold: one, a prompt I wrote for a weekly feature I used to run called Writing Prompt Wednesday; two, a ficlet by @avyssoseleison​ called “The Upper Hand”, which featured dom bottom Castiel and top sub Dean; three, an AO3 user suggesting that I do a story that incorporated images in some way; and four, a cry for Tumblr help where I was like, “I always use the same kinks, someone suggest a kink for this BDSM scene I’m writing,” and ltleflrt chimed in with “public sex.”

Jamming all those things together at high speeds was what led to the initial story about sexting and BDSM and bottom dom Dean and top sub Castiel.

I always vaguely knew I’d be continuing the story. From the moment I finished the first three chapters and the after care was woefully inadequate, I immediately started thinking about massive sub drop afterwards, and I also had a vision in my head of a scene when Dean would feel compelled to seek Castiel out in person after Cas ended a scene with a safeword. I definitely did not have the entire story thought out in my head - and if you read the whole thing I think that shows, there are some points in the first SextersAnon.com story that are flat-out contradicted by things I wrote later, um, sorry about that. I started writing the second story only a few days after I finished the first, but wasn’t able to work on it more for a long time after that, ‘cause I had a baby and what little writing time I had was consumed by my story for the 2016 Rare Pair Big Bang. During that extended hiatus, other pieces started to come together in my head - that Castiel had previously been in a very bad relationship, that Naomi had been his dom and had been abusive, etc.

Also, the comments on the first story were a big influence: first, having someone else point out how bad the after care was, and also a lot of people going, “omg are they ever going to meet?”

How did you research the acts and toys used in the fic?

So, true story, it’s actually really hard for me to do research on BDSM stuff. Since my son was born in March, 2016, I do the vast majority of my writing while I’m at work, and for obvious reasons I don’t feel comfortable googling lots and lots of kink while I’m on a monitored job computer. When I did have time at home, I did a lot of googling. :) Generally, I’d think of the kind of thing I wanted - ie, “I want a shibari self-tie that can be worn under clothing,” and then I’d do the research. (I think I googled almost exactly that phrase). There’s really nothing special to my research technique - when I want to know, say, how cock rings work, I literally google “how do cock rings work” and then I read through the results until I’m satisfied that I know the score. In particular, I try to find first hand accounts from men who’ve actually engaged in the sexual acts described. In “real” life I’m kinda hella ace and while I’ve done a little kinky stuff in my time, I mostly avoid sex and have never done BDSM, and I’m cis-female, so it’s important to me to read what men say about having a prostate or a penis, or about wearing a ring, etc.

For general kink knowledge, I built that foundation over years by talking to a few friends who are involved in BDSM (I have two close friends who are doms, and a couple I know are involved in a D/s relationship that involves a lot of bondage) and by reading up online. I don’t have a “go to” website I use, I always start at google and look through whatever pops up.

When I’m looking for initial ideas for scenes, I’ll often scroll through kink negotiation lists - like, “oh, what’s that? That looks interesting, I’ve never written that!” - and try to focus on things I’ve rarely seen written and that appeal to me (ie, sounding).

Oh! And for this story specifically? The pictures were very, very helpful. I’d get an idea and I’d want a picture to go with it, so I’d tumble into Google Image Search looking for something similar to what I had in mind, and invariably the pictures that’d crop up during those searches were a font of BDSM ideas.

Do you have any thoughts on the presentation of aftercare within fanfic writing communities?

The presentation of aftercare in BDSM fics seems to be very “all or nothing,” like, either there is no after care in the fic (or it’s dismissed in a sentence or two as, “of course that happened”) or it’s, like, waaaay over the top? I’ve read a few stories where the after care seemed to be more emphasized than the actual BDSM scene. And that’s fine - if aftercare is what floats people’s boats, I’m not going to EVER say don’t write that way - but for me what ends up being problematic about that is that it skews the nature of the Dom/sub relationship.

What do I mean by that?

The vast majority of BDSM long fic that I’ve read, it seems like the scene is something that the dom does to the sub, and then the after care is, like, how the dom “apologizes” or makes up for having done those things. So, say there’s a spanking scene - the spanking scene will be couched as, “the dom is having a very bad day and has to work out some aggression so they order the sub onto their lap, spank them until they’re crying but also really horny, and then they have sex, and then they have extended aftercare during which the dom thanks the sub for letting them take out that aggression and soothes away all the pain.” Now, I’ve got a little bit of a masochistic streak, and let me tell you: when I am feeling masochistic, when I WANT to hurt, I do not want anyone coming along to soothe my damn pain away, and anyone who is willing to indulge me and cause me pain, I’m thankful to them. Don’t get me wrong - I love a nice gentle dom, and I love reading tender aftercare, but I also really long for a BDSM dynamic where aftercare doesn’t feel like an apology. In a healthy BDSM relationship there’s no need for aftercare to be an apology, because at least the general outline of the scenes has been negotiated ahead of time. If a sub is getting spanked, they’re not doing it to “humor” the dom, and it doesn’t warrant an apology afterward. A sub is getting spanked because they’ve indicated previously that they like to be spanked and are open to being spanked, either as a component of the scene or as a punishment for misbehaving. If a dom is spanking a sub who doesn’t want to be spanked, then there’s a big problem there, and no amount of sweet aftercare is going to cover up for the fact that there’s a big problem there.

That, um, meandered a little. Basically: while I do love me some tender, loving aftercare, I’d love to see more acknowledgement of the power that subs have, and the choices that subs have, when writers tackle aftercare scenes. I’d really like to see more where the idea isn’t, “the scene is about the dom doing whatever they want, and the aftercare is about ‘making it up’ to the sub.” Subs are powerful. Subs have a lot of ability to steer how scenes go. And of course they’re still entitled to aftercare but I’d like to see more aftercare scenes that focus on treating the sub’s wounds (if there are any) and also helping the dom to come down from the high of the scene. I want more scenes that don’t read like, “now that the deed is done the dom feels guilty so they pamper the shit out of the sub.”

Communication is an important theme in SextersAnon.com—is this something you find gets under represented in other BDSM fanfics?

Yes. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Far, far too often in the BDSM fanfiction I’ve read, kink negotiation seems to get waved aside as a paragraph, “they talked about what kink they were comfortable with and then moved on.” This omission chronically bothers me, because, first, kink negotiation is really important and deserves attention, but also, second, this idea that kink negotiation is something that happens once in a relationship and then bam it’s done. In order to keep any relationship healthy, these conversations have to be continual and candid, or else things fall apart. Honestly, this is true in all fanfic. I think fanfic (and, heck, real life for that matter) has endemic problems with what healthy communication in a relationship looks like. But it’s especially important in BDSM, and I feel like people get so wrapped up in the kink that they forget that these two people have a relationship as well. My biggest complaint with some of the most popular BDSM fics in the Destiel fandom is that so many are structured similarly, and they start as a negotiated D/s relationship and then BAM spontaneously they’re in love and in transitions to being a healthy “actual” relationship that happens to include BDSM. And don’t get me wrong, I like those stories, but I wish there was more communication outside of scenes, more to it than, “realizing the sub loves to be a sub somehow magically leads to realizing that they’re in love with the dom.”

Castiel and Dean’s experiences are pretty intense, both past and present—do you have any advice for writing that sort of multilayered angst and abuse?

Hmm…okay, in no particular order:

Don’t shy away from the gritty details. As difficult as they can be to write, having abuse be explicit really helps a reader see how bad things were. I find the best balance is to include just enough that it’s obvious how terrible things were, while leaving the implication that the abuse described is one example of the types of scenario that the person was subjected to repeatedly. When picking which scenes to highlight, yes, pick something where the abuse is evident, but try to have the scene accomplish more than one goal. So, in SextersAnon, Cas’ terrible flashbacks tie into his current scenes with Dean, introduce the important people from his past who become relevant later in the story, demonstrate why certain things are triggering for Cas, make it clear to the reader how consistently Cas downplayed what was done to him and how he justified that he deserved the treatment he got, etc. I am not advocating including awful for the sake of awful (though, ya know, go for it if you want to ;) ) - but really dark scenes can be effectively integrated into a story while advancing other aspects of a story. If it’s a flashback, remember that people’s memories aren’t perfect, and they’re going to remember most vividly the parts that affected them most. This is an opportunity for the writer, to draw attention to specific points and to help the reader better understand whichever character is the story’s narrator. Which aspects stand out to the narrating character tell a story within the story and help draw the reader into the story teller’s mind set. I make heavy use of internal monolog/thoughts, and that really seems to help readers get in the headspace of the character going through the difficult stuff. So, don’t just write what “literally” happened, write how the PoV character reacts to those things, what it makes them think, and how it makes them feel. If it’s not your PoV character (ie, Dean in SextersAnon as opposed to Cas) remember that when people reveal their dark secrets, it’s hard for them, and how they describe their pasts, what words they use, where they hesitate, what they struggle with revealing, tells a reader almost as much as what they actually say. Remember the critical disconnect between what actually happened and how the character whose point of view is being written interpreted what happened. In any story with heavy angst and past abuse, the narrator/point of view character is almost certainly an unreliable narrator. They don’t walk around going, “wow, I was abused really bad, how awful!” They walk around going, “yes, what happened to me was bad, but I did this, this and this to deserve it.” They’re going to have unhealthy, bad habits that they developed while they were in abusive situation - strategies that were critical for them to protect themselves when they were being abused, but that are counterproductive in relatively “normal” relationships. They’re going to have internalized guilt, they’re going to have doubts, they’re going to be unsure. They’re likely to have at least mild PTSD, and the attendant symptoms will show - which leads to… Research. If you don’t know what the symptoms of PTSD are, research them. If you’re not sure what common habits are of people who have been abused, read up on that. There are a lot of great articles and blog posts around on these topics, written by people with first hand experience. Read them, learn from them, and if you still have questions - ask. People want to help, and many people who write those kinds of explanatory posts explicitly indicate that they are available to answer questions - many people will not want to share but there are a lot of abuse victims who want to, because they want to see their painful experiences accurately represented and they want to read stories about people who’ve gone through similar things but recovered. If you ask them for help, they’ll be happy to tell you how they personally experience things like flashbacks, panic attacks, anxiety, nightmares, etc. So seek out those folks, and don’t be afraid to ask - though accept if they say no, it’s none of your business.





What’s important to consider when writing about subspace, subdrop, and domdrop?

Who is the PoV character? If the character experiencing subspace, subdrop or domdrop is your point of view character, they’re going to exhibit certain behaviors, and they’re going to start thinking in certain ways - so, for example, if you want to write a convincing character in subspace, they’re going to deel disconnected from their body, they’re going to describe things more vaguely, lose track of time, etc. If you’re not exactly sure how things will change, read up on subspace and subdrop, read articles written by people who’ve actually experienced these things, and take into account what they say. If you’re writing a character whose perceptions are skewed, make sure they’re actually skewed. Don’t, for example, write super clear description and then tell us, “oh, everything is going vague!” If things are going vague, make sure your descriptions are vague. (obviously this will change if you’re not writing limited third person or first person) How much does your character know and understand about their own psychological health? Some people are very knowledgeable and introspective. If they wake up one day feeling weird, they notice pretty quickly, and they go, “hey, I’m acting weird today - I’m gloomy, I’m grumpy, etc.” If they know about BDSM practice, they might even go, “oh crap this is probably subdrop” and they’ll know immediately to start taking steps to take care of themselves, communicate with their partner(s) that they’re not feeling well, etc. On the other hand, a character who isn’t self-examined, who doesn’t know how to recognize their own bad habits, they’re going to show signs of depression, anxiety, etc., but they’re not going to realize that’s what happening. This is a classic “show, don’t tell” scenario. Research and learn about the way people who are experiencing subdrop behave, etc., and integrate those into your writing. If you’re worried you are being too subtle you can always find ways to lampshade what’s happening (ie, draw attention to it). For example, if your character is overreacting to things, if there’s a second character around, have them comment on the over reaction, or you can show the reader what “actually” happened and then use inner monologue/thought to demonstrate how the character reacts to what happened, and how the two are out of proportion to each other. If it’s not your point of view character, you have to find ways to communicate what’s happening to them through their behavior and their words, and a lot of the strategies are similar - often, the best way to show someone is going through something difficult is to have a difference in “level” between what’s happening and what they say/do. So maybe they get a papercut and then have melt down because “why do bad things always happen to them” or someone says, “pass the salt,” and they’re like “you always ask me to do everything for you!” Obviously the specifics will depend on your characters and which symptoms they’re exhibiting of subspace, subdrop, or domdrop. Never have a character have all the symptoms of whatever they’re experiencing. It’s just not realistic. Compare this to PMS? Some women will get horny and some women will get cramps and some women will get mood swings and some women will get angry and some women will get sad and some women will get manic etc. etc. but no woman gets all of these things. Pick and choose - try to identify which seem to go together (ie, depression and anxiety are often linked) and focus on those, or pick out the ones you feel most comfortable writing. Also…in general…don’t forget domdrop exists. It’s important. :)





How did you handle adding more tags to the series that could have deterred readers?

When in doubt I would rather over-tag than under-tag. Yes, it sucks to “have to” put in a tag that only applies to one scene in an 160k story and know that that single 1k scene and it’s attendant tag of awful is going to drive people away, but I’d rather lose readers than have someone get hurt because I undertagged. I think it’s especially important in a story like this one, which goes so many dark and potentially triggering places.

And honestly…while I feel bad if I got someone “hooked” on the story and then a subsequent installment added something they weren’t comfortable with, in the end that’s…kinda not my problem? It’s on the reader to police the content they read, and if they really wanted to continue they are ALWAYS free to contact me and say, “XYZ are my triggers and I saw you tagged for X, will it be possible for me to read this story - is X a prominent part, or is there a specific section I can skip to avoid it?” I am always open to questions like this and happy to help. (And I got a few such questions from SextersAnon readers).

Of course we as writers never want to deter readers, but I’d rather they stay safe, which means full disclosure on my part. I count on word of mouth to overcome people’s reticence when they see certain tags - and I’ve found over time that does work, like, “yeah I know the tags are dark but the story is really good and the tough stuff is handled well so give it a try!” has brought a lot of people my way who would normally have not read this kind of subject matter. I’ve also built up a decent level of “reader trust,” I get told pretty regularly that people were willing to read something because they trust me as a writer, when they might not have read it otherwise. Building up that reader trust by writing a wide variety of types of stories can be a good way to increase the odds that readers will “take a chance” on a more “out there” story.

How much of the story is plausible in reality?

Lmao oh god probably not much? I mean, the sex is over the top but some of it is plausible. The legal stuff is kinda mumbo-jumbo, so probably not much of it. For the rest…I mean, I think it’s reasonably possible? Out there, definitely, but out there stuff does happen. In general, I prefer to write stories about “outliers.” They’re less realistic but seriously all kinds of crazy shit does happen in the world, and I find those kinds of stories most compelling.

That said…so, I actually thought the whole “long distance sexting BDSM” thing was really implausible and it turns out that someone I know does exactly that with subs all over the country? It’s totally a thing, and people actually do it, so that shows what I know. ;)

What parts of the story are you most proud of and why?

Hmmm…

I’m very proud of the second story, Deactivated, as a whole. I was really trying to get the reader into Cas’ subdrop headspace without flat-out saying, “HEY IT’S SUBDROP!” and based on the feedback/comments I’ve gotten, I succeeded pretty well, and I’m very pleased with it.

I love the sensory scene (in Disconnected, when Castiel is blindfolded and he’s going through the velvet bags) - that took a fair amount of planning, and it was really fun to come up with “normal” things that would be interesting to use for sensory play.

In general, I’m proud of Castiel’s characterization. I found it hard to write someone that anxious who is so completely clueless that they are that anxious - I have mild anxiety, my wife has anxiety, my mom has a serious anxiety disorder, but all of us know we have anxiety and can self-check our behavior and/or are open to someone else going, “hey, you’re being super anxious right now!” But Cas has no idea how bad his PTSD is, so there was this constant juggling act between how he reacts disproportionately to things versus trying to make it clear to the reader that he is not reacting in a mentally healthy way, when he has no idea that anything about his reactions isn’t “normal.” I think I pulled it off? People seemed to like it…so yeah, I’m proud of that, too. :)

Is there anything you would change in the story–if yes, why?

At some point I want to go back through the first story and fix the places that don’t line up with the later stories. When I wrote the first story I just had a vague idea of “Cas sinks too far into subspace and makes bad choices” and then the aftercare issues, but I hadn’t worked out all the Naomi stuff, which means that parts of the first story give the impression that, for example, Cas has had a whole mess of different doms, which is flat-out contradicted later when it becomes clear his only serious relationship before was with Naomi (and whoever Naomi shared him with). So, in the hypothetical future where I take this story down and re-tool it into being an original fiction story, I would fix all that stuff. :) Other than that…no, not really. :)

Were there any parts you found particularly difficult to write–how did you get past that?

So many. So so many. Chunks of Disconnected in particular were like pulling teeth, because I needed to have things go so wrong before I could justify Castiel having his total meltdown, and it’s always difficult to write about hurting these characters that I love so much. I just want them to be snug and warm and happy and then I set up these horrible scenarios where they have to go through hell before the good things happen to them. Every story has parts I struggle with, but I’m not an “indulge the writer’s block” kind of writer. I get through hard parts by writing every. single. day. That’s what works for me. I remind myself, “the only way out is through!” and just make myself write and write. :)

Top 3 tips for writing safe, sane and consensual BDSM?

Research, research, research. The best way to learn about SSC or RACK (Risk-Averse Consensual Kink) is to read about how people really doing it really approach it. Push outside your comfort zone. Remember that if people are engaging in these behaviors it’s because they enjoy them, so, if you’re NOT someone who gets off on, say, sadism, try to put yourself into the position of someone who does, and consider: what might they find pleasurable about it? What might they want to do, and what might they not want to do? What marks the difference between consensual sadomasochism and non-consensual sadomasochism? etc. The best way to be sure that you’re writing safe, sane and consensual BDSM is to make the lines of consent and negotiation very clear. This is where things like explicit, narratively “on screen” kink negotiation come in. If the reader knows what your characters have discussed beforehand, they’ll be able to see how that gets enacted in the scene. And a bonus fourth - be aware of your own biases and your own tendencies towards bad behavior. For example, I have a manipulative and an abusive streak. I know this about myself, so when I’m writing a character, I work extra hard to keep an eye on how they’re behaving and make sure that if they say or do something manipulative, it’s because I want them behaving manipulatively. When writing potentially difficult content, it’s really important for the writer to be self-aware. A writer who isn’t self-aware is going to write all kinds of stuff that they think is healthy but actually signals their own hang-ups and communication issues and what-not. None of us are 100% okay. Face yourself fearlessly, explore yourself as you’d explore a character, learn about yourself, and channel that into your writing.





Obviously not everyone wants to write about safe, sane and consensual BDSM in their fanfic—do you have any advice on how fanfic authors can write safely about pure BDSM fantasy?

Go for it and tag appropriately. Fantasy exploration of “unhealthy” themes is healthy - way healthier and safer than, say, exploring those things in real life! - and so if you want to write full-on BDSM bondage sadomasochistic torture non-con, then hey, you do you. As long as you’ve tagged your content appropriately, readers can make the choice for themselves what they’re comfortable reading.

But I will throw back to point 4 in the answer just before this one: make sure you know yourself and what you’re about. If you’re going to write something “unhealthy,” do so consciously, embrace it and go for it, but don’t tell yourself you’re writing something that should be emulated, and for the love of God don’t try to tell everyone else that you’re writing something that should be emulated. And that’s not to say you owe your reader an apology. You don’t. But you do owe your reader:

Enough understanding of yourself that you recognize the ways that what you wrote is “not ok” by certain definitions of “ok” and Accurate, complete tags so that readers can avoid content that they do not want to read.





Which leads very well into the next question…

What do you think the impact of popular books like 50 Shades has been on fanfic writing communities?

Disclaimer: I have never read 50 Shades of Grey or seen the movie. I have no intention of seeing or reading it. I have read a couple synopses that rip it to shreds while also giving a basic outline of the plot, I’ve read some quotes from it, and I’ve read some analyses of the abusive relationship in it and how unhealthy the BDSM is, and seen those contrasted with what good communication and “safe, sane, consensual” look like instead.

Second disclaimer: I’m relatively new to fanfic communities. My joining of the Destiel fandom post-dates the writing of 50 Shades, the writing of the original Twilight fic, and even the writing of Destiel fics like Carry On that strive to show good practice. So my knowledge of the history of the presentation of BDSM in fic is nebulous at best.

My sense is that in the early days of fanfiction, BDSM was a “naughty dirty wrong bad” sub genre that was mostly an excuse to show domineering people controlling the subs, and there was a lot of not safe stuff going on. Fics like the “original” Twilight fic that 50 Shades is a rewrite of are examples of that. What I think 50 Shades and comparable books have done is bring BDSM and the lifestyle into the forefront. The outcry from the BDSM community in response to the publishing of 50 Shades and similar works has cast light on what bad practice looks like and what good practice looks like, and from a fanfiction standpoint I think the result is almost entirely positive. I no longer see many abusive relationships foisted off as “healthy because it’s BDSM and he/she signed a contract!” There’s much more information about BDSM available now, much more information on how to write “good” BDSM available, and many, many resources for a writer who doesn’t live that lifestyle to educate themselves.

So, while I think 50 Shades is pretty terrible, I am glad that it has been helpful in educating a younger generation on how to approach kink in a more healthy fashion.

But I do worry about the people who DON’T get the memo about all the ways those relationships aren’t good, and then try to emulate that…we need to keep spreading the word and writing stories with healthy practice and good communication, as a way of keeping folks safe! There’s absolutely a place in the community for “unhealthy” BDSM stories, but we need a good balance of both and we need writers who understand the difference!!

This article is part of a larger themed week of informative articles from allspnships. If you’d like to read more, check out the introduction post here.

