Vox’s Ezra Klein says Elizabeth Warren is “one of the Democrats most capable of defining the Democratic Party’s soul and message in a post-Trump era.” But, as she wrote in her new book “The Fight is Our Fight,” that doesn’t mean she’s always on the same page as the party’s top dog.

She mentioned a speech President Obama gave in the summer of 2016 in which he said, “the system isn’t as rigged as you think.”

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Warren said he got it wrong. “No, President Obama, the system is as rigged as we think,” she said. “In fact, it’s worse than most Americans realize.”

Klein, in an interview posted on Wednesday, asked her what people miss about rigging. The senior senator from Massachusetts and founder of the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, of course, had plenty to say on the topic.

“ ‘Money slithers through Washington like a snake, and it’s quiet, but the influence is everywhere.’ ” — Elizabeth Warren

She explained that there are the obvious ways that we are well aware of, like the campaign contributions and the armies of lobbyists.

“But it’s so much more,” she said.

“It’s bought-and-paid-for experts who testify before Congress and are quoted in the press,” Warren continued. “It’s think tanks that are funded by shadowy money and always have a particular point of view that just seems to help the rich and the powerful get richer and more powerful.”

She wrote of the “revolving door” of executives who work on Wall Street for 20 years, then work in the Treasury for a bit, and then head right back to Wall Street.

“The giant payouts that they give to people to go work in government are just stunning. I mean, millions of dollars,” Warren said.

She wasn’t finished. Not by a long shot.

“Money pervades. It’s whose phone calls do you take. It’s who you see in the evenings. It’s who are your old friends,” Warren told Klein. “It’s every part of it, so that the rich and the powerful are incredibly well-represented, not just at the top in the White House but all the way through government in this town.”

You can listen to the full interview on Ezra Klein’s podcast.