READER COMMENTS ON

"Federal Judge Rules in Favor of Plaintiff Demand for Emergency Paper Ballots in PA"

(31 Responses so far...)





COMMENT #1 [Permalink]

... TEDEGER said on 10/29/2008 @ 4:13 pm PT...





Well - one state that was in jeopardy now seems to be headed toward an honest vote.

COMMENT #2 [Permalink]

... Paul Lehto said on 10/29/2008 @ 4:56 pm PT...





People should tell the exit pollsters, whether from CNN, Edison-Mitofsky, ElectionIntegrity, or whoever, to track BY TYPE OF BALLOT CAST in all states. This applies with particular strength where voters have choice (as doesn't appear to the be case in PA) on what type of ballot to vote, because the ballot pools (paper v. DRE or what have you) will likely be demographically different. One consequence: Election night projections don't necessarily hold because the later-counted ballots will be demographically different than earlier-counted ballots. It also means that one party, most likely the Republicans but it could be either party, will have a distorted lead based on polling place returns, but that situation will change as other returns come in....

COMMENT #3 [Permalink]

... Batocchio said on 10/29/2008 @ 5:00 pm PT...





Good to hear!

COMMENT #4 [Permalink]

... Leia said on 10/29/2008 @ 5:16 pm PT...





Hi Brad, I just heard your interview on Democracy Now and your instructions for people to try and take video of any voting machine problems. I am an election judge in Boulder CO and here at least cell phones are not permitted to be used within the no-electioneering 100' limit--any suggestions on what people should do in these situations? Of course, here in Boulder most everyone votes by paper; each voting location only has one machine, and we're trained to discourage people from using it!

COMMENT #5 [Permalink]

... Brad Friedman said on 10/29/2008 @ 5:39 pm PT...





Leia - If your cell phone is in your pocket, and your vote flips in front of your face, it would be good to have video of that, as it would be a great service to the nation. I'd never advocate breaking any laws (even if that rule about cell phones likely isn't a law, but a rule), but where service to the nation is helpful, I hope folks will do the right thing. In CA, it's allowed, as long as one doesn't violate someone elses privacy by shooting their ballot. And it was my cell phone video of my votes being flipped (4 out of 12 cast on my ballot) during last June's state primary that allowed the Registrar to figure out what had gone wrong. Transparency is very important. Hope those thoughts help.

COMMENT #6 [Permalink]

... Adam Fulford said on 10/29/2008 @ 5:48 pm PT...





"As we reported when the lawsuit was filed last week, state law allows county clerks to give out paper ballots if just one machine breaks down on Election Day, Cortes' stunning decree, issued last month went unchallenged by both the DNC or the Barack Obama campaign..." It is sad when a judge's decree that downgrades the previous condition as stated in state law is a victory for democracy. This is truly Kafkaesque. What happens when citizens contact their reps about the voting machine issue? Do they say nothing? Do they all stonewall it as mealy-mouthed Howard Dean did? There is Something Rotten In the United States This smells so rotten, I can smell it here in Canada (where I just cast a hand-marked paper ballot for a local elextion). Why Do DNC and GOP Alike So Desperately Want to Let the Sleeping Dog Rest? Are some dirty rancid secrets festering in the lying dog --- is that why they're doing their utmost not to arouse it? An ex-intelligence officer told me that, based on experiences in the field, that is the likely reason this issue is being stonewalled by the Democratic Party, Republican Party, and the Rovian fascist media in the United States.

COMMENT #7 [Permalink]

... Agent 99 said on 10/29/2008 @ 5:54 pm PT...





Any rule against using your cell phone at a polling place has to be about the talking on it part. If you don't talk on it, you're not breaking the rule.

COMMENT #8 [Permalink]

... Agent 99 said on 10/29/2008 @ 5:56 pm PT...





Brad Your appearance on DN! was superb. You raised the value of that broadcast by a lot. Thank you.

COMMENT #9 [Permalink]

... Bamboo Harvester said on 10/29/2008 @ 6:10 pm PT...





Brad the Blogger's ~ DN appearance is on YouTube .

COMMENT #10 [Permalink]

... Paul Lehto said on 10/29/2008 @ 6:22 pm PT...





Whatever the rules on video are in your state, I don't see any evidence, in what I've seen, that there has been the slightest consideration of, much less respect for, the first amendment. Don't even get me started on the fact that voters, acting as such, are acting in their sovereign capacity and, subject only to that required for basic order compelled by the awareness of the equal rights of all concerned, can't be ordered what around by the government like the rest of the year. Voting is when we step into the shoes of the King George of 1776 and select our servants, and if that's too quaint, well, then we're not a free people.

COMMENT #11 [Permalink]

... Brad Friedman said on 10/29/2008 @ 7:48 pm PT...





I agree! Don't get Paul started! (But yes, I also agree with his point )

COMMENT #12 [Permalink]

... Mary Ann said on 10/29/2008 @ 10:05 pm PT...





There are two statutes that MUST be considered... together they make an important Case for emergency ballot process in PA which should be followed next Tuesday First, as noted, we have a LEGAL statute that states emergency paper ballots MAY be issued if machines inoperable etc Then add the duties of the Judges of Election... PA LAW states that JOE's must "maintain order" at the polls (in/out) which includes line control. In this election, we have in most counties too few DREs - calculated on overly optimistic and incorrect estimates of capacity. Worse, many counties used prior election turn-out in calculating need and did not take into account larger turn-out as well as new registrations. Thus, if one machine goes down for a period of time or at a busy time, the likelihood of long lines forming and some citizens giving up is high. In fact there were lines in the primary because of one machine down in a number of locations. What will next Tuesday be like? Judges of Election must stand up to their sworn duty to maintain control ... and to their right to request emergency paper ballots if ONE machine is down and it is impacting lines and causing voters to leave. Put law before a non-elected secretary of state directive - a directive does not rise to level of statute or law ..it is more of a guide. SOS Cortes has repeatedly made decisions and issued directives which have harmed the voters of PA - including the infamous and misnamed "fleeing voter" which destroys votes if record button not pushed. Remember many Pennsylvanians are used to levers. They never had to push a vote record button plus it is easy to miss. Cortes directed that if voters leaves and doesn't push record vote, their entries are to be destroyed. At least one county wisely ignored this directive and has a process to record while maintaining secrecy and security oversight. No one should have the right to destroy a vote Mr. Cortes, not even at your direction! Further, this hides machine problems for in over half the polls we've examined, the number of sign-in versus machine count do not match. Excuse...oh. that's fleeing voter. No proof just opinion because of this ill advised directive. In one very carefully monitored poll in the primary, there were no "fleeing voters" yet the machine count was five under the sign-in number. Think 5 votes multiplied by all the polls in a township/county/state... That can swing many an election and that is just what wasn't recorded...who knows results of programming and other factors impacting the machine figures?. Who knows? No one! Or do they??? Getting back to the above court decision, it is better than all down though best is to make LAW the guide ... make it one down and emergency ballots if needed at that poll. There are two statutes that MUST be considered...and together make an important case in PA which should be followed next Tuesday First, as noted, we have a statute that states emergency paper ballots MAY be issued if machines inoperable etc Then add the duties of the Judges of Election... PA law states that JOE's must "maintain order" at the polls (in/out) which includes line control. In this election, we have in most counties too few DREs - calculated on overly optimistic and incorrect estimates of capacity. Worse, many counties used prior election turn-out in calculating need and did not take into account larger turn-out as well as new registrations. Thus, if one machine goes down for a period of time or at a busy time, the likelihood of long lines forming and some citizens giving up is high. In fact there were lines in the primary because of one machine down in a number of locations. What will next Tuesday be like? Judges of Election must stand up to their sworn duty to maintain control ... and to their right to request emergency paper ballots if ONE machine is down and it is impacting lines and causing voters to leave. Put law before a non-elected secretary of state directive - a directive does not rise to level of statute or law ..it is more of a guide. SOS Cortes has repeatedly made decisions and issued directives - including the infamous and misnamed "fleeing voter" which destroys votes if record button not pushed. Remember many Pennsylvanians are used to levers. They never had to push a vote record button plus it is easy to miss. Cortes directed that if voters leaves and doesn't push record vote, their entries are to be destroyed. At least one county wisely ignored this directive and has a process to record while maintaining secrecy and security oversight. No one should have the right to destroy a vote Mr. Cortes, not even at your direction! Further, this hides machine problems for in over half the polls we've examined, the number of sign-in versus machine count do not match. Excuse...oh. that's fleeing voter. No proof just opinion because of this ill advised directive. In one very carefully monitored poll in the primary, there were no "fleeing voters" yet the machine count was five under the sign-in number. Think 5 votes multiplied by all the polls in a township/county/state... That can swing many an election and that is just what wasn't recorded...who knows results of programming and other factors impacting the machine figures?. Who knows? No one! Or do they??? Getting back to the above court decision, it is better than all down though best is to make LAW the guide ... make it one down and emergency ballots if needed at that poll. When are we going to fight for what is really right? WHY DO WE SETTLE FOR LESS??? Write SOS Cortes and ask him why he choose to make it harder for people to vote? This is a very "political" person - supposedly wants to be first Hispanic governor..just elected prez of Assoc of Secretary of States and claims he wants vote protection a priority.

COMMENT #13 [Permalink]

... James Casey said on 10/29/2008 @ 10:13 pm PT...





Someone needs to get hold of a copy of the software on these machines. Perhaps one can go "missing" or someone can copy the internals to a flash drive, card, or whatever. I volunteer to inspect any code that someones sends me. Obviously, I cannot verify what machine it came from, but I can shout "fire" if it is obvious that something's up. We need to determine whether they are trying to steal the election or not. Fixing an election should be a capital offense. -- Jim

COMMENT #14 [Permalink]

... David Lasagna said on 10/29/2008 @ 10:27 pm PT...





Brad,

You are inspirational. Excellent work on both The Al Jazeera English and Democracy Now shows.

I get discouraged, often, by how fucked up things are, occasionally by both candidates(although Obama's TV thing tonight was rivetting and tears were streaming down my face), and by the lack of support/interest in election integrity from Democrats, Republicans, some of my friends, and the MSM. But then I regroup and I realize I'm trying to help with election integrity because it's what I think the vital issue is. It's what I(would be italicizing/underlining the word "I" here and in the preceding sentence if I knew how to)think the country really needs. Looks like I'm gonna get to help in NH with citizen exit polling. Thanks for the continuing inspiration, babe.

love,

David Lasagna

COMMENT #15 [Permalink]

... Scott Roberts said on 10/30/2008 @ 7:07 am PT...





Wow, this is insane. The impression is that Canadians are passive, but I'd be rioting if this was happening to my vote here in Canada. America, please wake up. It's your country ... the longer you wait to act you may wake up and find out it's not. Great job Brad, I hope Americans everywhere flood every opportunity to complain and drive and demand change. We love the U.S.A and want a stable neighbor, who is back in the position of a world class leader. The citizens of the US are world class and need to be better represented internationally once again. Fight for your rights, ensure your vote is counted.

COMMENT #16 [Permalink]

... Terrible said on 10/30/2008 @ 7:35 am PT...





Why do PA election officials HATE American election integrity so much?

COMMENT #17 [Permalink]

... Walk Softly said on 10/30/2008 @ 7:42 am PT...





Agree with Adam Fulford: It is sad when a judge's decree that downgrades the previous condition as stated in state law is a victory for democracy. This is truly Kafkaesque..." How about uniformity in the law? There should be no necessity for so-called 'emergency' paper ballots based on whether or not an electronic DRE breaks down. The fact that even one county of 67 PA counties uses a wholly accessibility-compliant and precinct paper ballot system (Automark)and about 6 of 67 use a dual voting system, a mix of paper ballot with optical scanners and the electronic DREs, should be enough for all counties to be legally enabled to provide a choice to the voter of a paper ballot (with precinct scanners). I'd argue the precinct scanners aren't needed, the central scanners would be sufficient, but then the precinct paper ballot voter would not have the same opportunity to correct for errors which may disqualify or void the ballot. It has been puzzling why the lawsuit did not demand such based on equality of voter access to a paper ballot voting system. But now I'm wondering about the use of the paper ballots in precincts which will NOT have voter access to a precinct scanner. As an election judge in a county which employed a dual system for the first time this last Primary, individuals using the paper ballots made errors and they were afforded the opportunity for replacement ballots. However, that will obviously not be the case in counties which do not have the optical scanners at the precinct. So an outcome of this ruling could be voters whose ballot may contain disqualifying errors, no equal opportunity to correct for those errors before casting the paper ballot, and the potential for abuse or even mistakes at a central location which scans the paper ballots. This is potentially more of problem than could ever have been expected. This is by the way also a problem with the absentee ballots which in PA must be paper ballots. The absentee voter who inadvertantly over-votes has no equal access to correct for errors. In addition, with central scanners, the potential exists for stray marks to either be created (creases in paper) or to be read as over-votes. The ballot will then be in the domain of unelected election officials to determine the 'intent' of a voter outside the sight of the public. At least with the provisional ballots, which also do not permit for precinct scanning, (even in precincts with paper ballot/precinct scanners), there is a formal review of voter status by elected officials, and before a final decision on that status is made by the Election Board, the provisional ballot voter has an opportunity to testify to one's eligibility status. By law, a provisional ballot voter is afforded an opportunity to check the status of the ballot by phone number call and/or site visit. A special code number is provided the provisional ballot voter. No such provisions for the EPB voters. An emergency paper ballot without the precinct scanner who may have a paper ballot disqualified at the central location has NO SUCH OPPORTUNITY for reddress and in fact may not ever know whether or not the ballot was voided for an over-vote! The voter has of course, ultimate personal responsibility to check a paper ballot before sending it in to the election bureau or putting it into a ballot box at the precinct. But it appears there is something gravely amiss. I make these points in the interest of discussion, not discouragement. Hopefully Mr. Bonifaz will address uniformity and how emergency paper ballots will be treated without precinct-based scanners.

COMMENT #18 [Permalink]

... Unbelievable said on 10/30/2008 @ 9:42 am PT...





50% is a ridiculously high number to allow to go bad before you feel compelled to use paper ballots. That means that out of say a million votes, 500,000 can be wrong before they'll do anything.

COMMENT #19 [Permalink]

... alfredo said on 10/30/2008 @ 9:45 am PT...





36 states have early voting, why not in PA?

If voter turnout is really heavy on election day why not allow people to use paper ballots rather than stand in line for hours even if all the machines are working?

I read were some people GA had to wait up to 12 hrs to cast an early vote. Is that reasonable?

COMMENT #20 [Permalink]

... colinjames said on 10/30/2008 @ 11:11 am PT...





Thom Hartmann is talking about vote-flipping as I write, I just want to say thank you for all your hard work on this issue. I'm one of the few people who post your stories on Buzzflash, I do what I can, but I live in WA state so I don't have to worry about this CRAP. I just can't believe the Dems and Obama campaign aren't doing jack-shit about this. I'm sick with worry about an "improbable" McCain victory next week, after all these years of you, Palast, RFK Jr, BBV, and others screaming FIRE! about our elections and the same problems still exist, it's really heartbreaking and disturbing- I honestly feel like this election is our last, best chance to save our nation, if it gets stolen AGAIN the shit's gonna hit the fan. Thanks again, you're a REAL American hero. Aloha nui loa, bruddah

COMMENT #21 [Permalink]

... DES said on 10/30/2008 @ 1:16 pm PT...





Luckily the judge applied common sense and cared more about the voters: "The evidence, not surprisingly, demonstrated that DRE [direct-recording electronic] voting machines, like all other machines, sometimes fail. When that happens, time is of the essence," Bartle wrote in a 28-page ruling. "The polls are open for one day and one day only and then for only 13 hours. There is no rain date." "We would be blind to reality if we did not recognize that many individuals have a limited window of opportunity to go to the polls due to their jobs, child-care and family responsibilities, or other weighty commitments. Life does not stop on Election Day." Bartle was not persuaded by defense arguments that voters could not be provided privacy to vote on paper. Nor was he persuaded that poll workers lacked the training to administer paper ballots, as election administrators such as Montgomery County's Joseph A. Passarella testified.

COMMENT #22 [Permalink]

... Notorious Kelly said on 10/30/2008 @ 3:53 pm PT...





I know computers inside out and there's no way in Hell I'd trust a proprietary system without independent auditing to elect scout leaders, much less the president. Something Stinks!

COMMENT #23 [Permalink]

... Adam Fulford said on 10/30/2008 @ 4:01 pm PT...





Nor was he persuaded that poll workers lacked the training to administer paper ballots, as election administrators such as Montgomery County's Joseph A. Passarella testified. That is incredible. Montgomery County's Joseph A. Passarella and other election administrators are either morons or corrupt to the core. They insult the intelligence of poll workers to say that they wouldn't be able to do something that a chi hua hua dog could conceivably be trained to do.

COMMENT #24 [Permalink]

... Anthony Look said on 10/31/2008 @ 4:01 am PT...





Brad, the country owes you and your contemporaries an American salute. Thanks man.

COMMENT #25 [Permalink]

... mick said on 10/31/2008 @ 4:13 am PT...





And while you fight to get your vote counted there robbing you blind...

Paulson's Swindle Revealed

COMMENT #26 [Permalink]

... plunger said on 10/31/2008 @ 4:46 am PT...





From the front lines of the GOP's war against the constitution (a polling place in Sunrise Florida - 7:30 a.m.): "Apparently people started showing up BEFORE 5:45. They just told us that it will be about an hour and a half from where I am now. They are out of sample ballots to pass out so apparently a lot of people are reading all this shit for the first time! The guy behind me offered to let them copy & pass out his sample ballot that he brought with him. He said that it even already has all the right answers marked! They have 15 machines here." Charlie Crist needs to be crucified for this. No sample ballots? WTF? 15 machines? WTF? Billions handed out daily to banks, and this country can't allocate the resources to enable the most important function of a Democracy? The word CONSPIRACY is the only word to use.

COMMENT #27 [Permalink]

... molly said on 10/31/2008 @ 6:30 am PT...





#26...Add fascism.

COMMENT #28 [Permalink]

... Ancient said on 10/31/2008 @ 6:36 am PT...





And now there's this for me to deal with on election day as a judge of elections: http://www.pittsburghliv...stmoreland/s_595844.html A private citizen casting a private vote is not allowed to document a problem they may have casting that vote. Hmmm...and whats the argument for keeping evms..."there's no documented evidence of problems with the machines." Same old catch 22 crap to drag feet and waste taxpayer money in court. I wonder if the dem governor, dem sos, or my dem election board ever read Bowen's and Brunner's reports? I know Marybeth from Vote PA has certainly made them all aware of it! Please consider a donation:

http://www.votepa.us/donate.html Her testimony was key in this case!

COMMENT #29 [Permalink]

... Joan said on 10/31/2008 @ 7:08 am PT...





#15 Scott,

Ohhhh, darlin'. Insane indeed. Also ugly & frightening & dangerous.

We (if I may speak for myself & 6 or 7 others) appreciate the fact that our Canadian friends care (and I mean that..no sarcasm intended!)..but honestly, when you say "demand change" & "fight for your rights", please tell me... what, specifically, do you suggest we do?! Give me an actual suggestion!!! Should we write our congressmen? Try & talk to our neighbors? Petition? Street protest? Letters to senators, editors, journalists? Write a book?..a song?..A play? Make a film? A documentary? Wave some signs? Sue?

'We the People' have done all of those. And we've been ignored, vilified, sometimes physically attacked. I thank the GODS for the courage & dedication of people like Brad, who continue the fight every damn day in the midst of this insanity!

So really Scott, no offense, hon..you got any suggestions? Short of torches & pitchforks? Truth be told, I'm about ready to do that whole Eminem 'Mosh' thing, but heh..I'm 5 foot 1 & 61, so I'll probably be trampled. If you see me go down, please pick me up.

COMMENT #30 [Permalink]

... Joan said on 10/31/2008 @ 7:56 am PT...





Honestly, I can't help picturing a group of sleek, cigar-smoking old bastards sitting in a room somewhere---their fat asses ensconced in plush leather & their blood-soaked fingers encrusted with diamonds worth more than all our homes combined---just laughing their asses off.

Maybe that is too simplistic, too metaphoric a view...or maybe not. Maybe Mephistopheles really is a player in all this, who the hell knows! I WAS going to post what seemed a hopeful headline from the UK's Guardian...

"US election: Lawyers arrive in Florida for potential post-election fight"...

Yay!--I thought--They're really going to defend democracy this time! (crows ludicrously still-naive Joan). Then I started reading... "...So far, Lichtman said that there have been no serious problems, other than long queues..."

"The only issue is the long lines..."

Holy Fucking Mother Of Christ In A Straight-Jacket.

COMMENT #31 [Permalink]

... Joan said on 10/31/2008 @ 8:21 am PT...

