Angelenos have been hearing for the past four years that street vending could be legalized soon, but there always seems to be just a little bit more to do. This week was no different.

With some saying it is past due for a major city like Los Angeles to start permitting vending, city leaders took yet another step forward Wednesday in committee. They advanced a slightly more detailed series of operating rules and restrictions that could apply to street vendors selling everything from hotdogs and fruits to toys and other wares on Los Angeles sidewalks.

The hard part has been to create a program that works across the city, and that is also not too cumbersome for vendors, some say.

“Our end goal is to find a comprehensive policy to sidewalk vending that works for everyone,” said Harbor area councilman Joe Buscaino, who has been advocating for the city to move faster to legalize vending.

Sidewalk vendor are at City Hall to urge for their businesses to be legalized. The quilt shows a map of where vendors operate in LA. pic.twitter.com/CaKl4ktUqw — Elizabeth Chou (@reporterliz) November 8, 2017

Some say the council is ready this time around to really make something happen, especially with President Donald Trump taking tough stances on illegal immigration. The fear that street vendors, many of whom are undocumented, could be deported if they are given criminal citations seems to have spurred faster action this year.

“There is a different room temperature from the City Council than existed when we first proposed a street vending ordinance and if that inspires action, then great,” Councilman Jose Huizar said in a statement. “Let’s move on it.”

But while city leaders say they are closer than ever, some issues remain that stand between the estimated 50,000 vendors that are already operating in L.A., and their ability to apply for a city permit.

People don’t agree on whether vendors should be able to operate citywide

The discussion on the council has moved away from a model in which vending would only be legal in areas that want it, and is now settling toward legalizing vending citywide, with some areas potentially being able to opt-out. Now, the conversation appears to be primarily around the process for being able to opt-out.

Communities that oppose vending should be able to opt out entirely, according to San Fernando Valley Councilman Mitchell Englander. He says the culture and geography differs across Los Angeles, and communities should not be forced to adhere to a “one-size-fits-all” approach to the permitting program. His district includes Chatsworth and Northridge, two areas where the neighborhood councils submitted letters to oppose the legalization of sidewalk vending in their areas.

But other city leaders are pushing hard the other way, saying that vending should only be disallowed if there are “rational and legitimate” reasons for why an area is unsuitable for the activity, such as if it creates a public or health safety hazard. The city still needs to settle on a criteria for allowing certain areas to opt out or set up “special districts” that impose stricter rules.

The committee did move forward on a proposal that would specifically restrict vending within 500 feet of touristy or crowded venues with high pedestrian traffic on the sidewalks, such as Hollywood Boulevard, Dodger Stadium, Hollywood Bowl, the Staples Center and the Los Angeles Memorial Coliseum.

Neighborhood councils in other areas of the city, like Studio City, the Harbor area, Hollywood Hills and West Los Angeles also oppose a citywide vending program. But in places like North Hollywood, Lake Balboa, Echo Park and Highland Park, the neighborhood councils have expressed support for the citywide approach.

In an attempt avoid past mistakes, LA leaders are puzzling over how to ensure that most vendors will want to join the legal permitting program

The city tried more than 20 years ago to legalize vending, but many say that effort failed because the rules were too restrictive, and only one area of the city, MacArthur Park, was able to set up a legal vending zone. At the time, the multiple rules and limited areas for legalized vending resulted in legal vendors being easily undercut by vendors outside the district who decided it was better to continue flouting the rules.

Activists for street vendors say permit fees should be affordable enough for vendors to be able to pay for, and the operating rules and application requirements should not be too cumbersome. They also argue that the proposed rules, which include a cap of two vendors per block, are still too restrictive. They also say the city appeared to have “lifted” the rules from those that are meant for news racks, rather than specifically tailoring the rules to vending. Some of those proposed restrictions could prevent vendors from operating near parking meters and bus stops, which are abundant throughout the city’s commercial areas, for example.

City leaders have not made any proposals about the best way to pay for enforcement of vending rules

Residents, brick-and-mortar business, and the vendors all want to make sure the vending rules are enforced. But this might be the most expensive part of the program, city officials say.

The members of the committee this week made few recommendations on what type of enforcement model to use, and how to fund it. They went only as far as asking staff to study the issue further.

Enforcement costs could be covered by “certificate of operation” fees. City officials looked at a fee levels ranging from $125 to $1000. If the fee is set at the lowest level, city officials say that might require more than 23,000 vendors to obtain permits, in order to come up with about $3.3 million to pay for enforcement.

So city leaders still need to consider what level of fees is affordable for vendors, and how it might fit in with the vendors’ overall operating costs. A sidewalk vendors’ operating costs, such as insurance and equipment, can range from $2,932 to $21,861 in the first year, according to officials.

Also there may be a limited number of permits that can be issued. A proposed a cap of two vendors per block means permits will be limited by the number of blocks in a city. The vending program would likely only allow vendors on commercial and industrial blocks, with limited pushcart vending in residential areas. The number of permits that could could also be further limited depending on whether certain areas of the city opt-out of legalized vending.

Nothing is decided yet on whether vendors will need to gain the consent of brick-and-mortar businesses to operate nearby

Cities like Portland and San Francisco that already have a legal vending program require vendors to ask for a nearby storefront’s consent before setting up show nearby. So LA is likely to head in that direction.

But city leaders are hearing from activists, who say a rule requiring a “letter of consent” could lead to storefront businesses extorting vendors. Activists say they prefer a non-regulatory way of resolving any conflicts between storefront business operators and vendors.

Meanwhile, business groups that are generally supportive of legalized vending say that the requirement that vendors obtain permission from brick-and-mortar businesses is important because it gives them control of what’s happening just outside their door.