READER COMMENTS ON

"More Devastating Response to NYT's Outrageous Hypocrisy in Refusing to Correct Inaccurate ACORN 'Pimp' Hoax Coverage"

(60 Responses so far...)





COMMENT #1 [Permalink]

... Alex said on 2/26/2010 @ 4:22 pm PT...





I read websites and newspapers that I trust and are willing to challenge the readers with stories not commonly reported, but I guess there is a healthy percentage of the US population who choose their news source based on emotional comfort, traditional (outdated) reputation and political afiliation.

The demise of the MSM is self inflicted, NYT especially.

COMMENT #2 [Permalink]

... Mitch said on 2/26/2010 @ 4:48 pm PT...





You know, I sent an email to the Times' public editor a week or two ago, followed up a day or two ago specifically requesting a response from a human being rather than an auto-responder. Nothing, nada, zip. Arrogance, then the fall. We all have this regrettable tendency to think that an organization can stand on its past. But the people in the organization change. I've seen it happen at computer companies: the company is launched by a brilliant set of people, succeeds wildly, goes on a hiring spree that introduces layer after layer of new and incompetent management. The new management hires run the company into the ground because (a) they think by virtue of being a manager at Megacorp, they are hot stuff, and (b) because they know Megacorp is destined to succeed. Well, The New York Times Corporation is Megacorp. It once had a good name, and it only took Clark Hoyt to pound the final nail into the coffin. I'll be glad when the corpse stops moving.

COMMENT #3 [Permalink]

... renzoku bb.com said on 2/26/2010 @ 6:15 pm PT...





In terms of companies fading out:

http://www.cluborlov.blogspot.com/ As mentioned on the last post on acorn, has anyone considered pooling funds to help Brad get set up with a more bricks and mortar (or better yet soy and hemp paper) publication. While workin for a livin, it's more an more clear how few folk have access (let alone time) to real news published here. They're too busy makin a living while a huge number can't afford funds to read online.

COMMENT #4 [Permalink]

... Billy said on 2/26/2010 @ 6:54 pm PT...





It seems that this issue has evolved beyond the question of accuracy and into the realm of culpability. That is, the New York Times is refusing to issue a retraction not because they stand by their story, but because they don't want to confess their malicious role in attacking ACORN under the direction of a small faction racist activists.

COMMENT #5 [Permalink]

... Lora said on 2/26/2010 @ 7:17 pm PT...





I also think the NYT is refusing to issue a retraction because that's just not what you do these days. Never admit wrongdoing. Never apologize. Therefore there IS nothing to correct. I'm not sure when or what group in this country started this trend, but it isn't just the NYT. I'm not saying this to excuse them in any way, just pointing out that the country seems a sadder, meaner place because of it these days. Sure, we've gotten some very public and essentially meaningless apologies from some very public figures who've admitted wrongdoing in their private lives. But in general, in areas that actually matter to the public, the policy seems to be never admit to anything. The NYT is right in style.

COMMENT #6 [Permalink]

... Big Dan said on 2/26/2010 @ 7:20 pm PT...





Isn't there someone at the NYTimes watching all of this and thinking he has to get rid of Hoyt and Brock because they're making a laughingstock out of the NYTimes? I laughed out loud with this one (seriously, I laughed out loud): The story says O'Keefe dressed up as a pimp and trained his hidden camera on Acorn counselors. It does not say he did those two things at the same time These guys STINK! And they represent the NYTimes? What a joke! This is getting embarrassing for them. Hoyt and Brock are just getting silly with their responses...OR they're idiots who shouldn't have the positions they have. What a joke they are. Like I said, isn't someone above them cringing at how stupid these jokers are? And how bad they blow?

COMMENT #7 [Permalink]

... Big Dan said on 2/26/2010 @ 7:21 pm PT...





Hoyt and Brock are worse than the Detroit Lions!

COMMENT #8 [Permalink]

... Tunga said on 2/26/2010 @ 7:52 pm PT...





"incontrovertibly" God I love that word.

COMMENT #9 [Permalink]

... Ralph said on 2/26/2010 @ 8:12 pm PT...





This is excellent reporting on an issue which could not be more important for our country. Of all the reasons we are in such a political black hole, the problem of right-wing media dominance is the most devastating. Without some way to lessen the influence of right-wing propagandists, there is no evident way to reverse the economic disparity between the super-wealthy and ordinary people, which in turn causes so many of our other social and economic problems.

COMMENT #10 [Permalink]

... Ernest A. Canning said on 2/26/2010 @ 8:47 pm PT...





Lora wrote: I also think the NYT is refusing to issue a retraction because that's just not what you do these days. Never admit wrongdoing. Never apologize.

______________________ Unfortunately, "these days" is much broader than you might think. "All effective propaganda must be limited to a very few points and must harp on these slogans until the last member of the public understands what you want him to understand...Propaganda [has] to be continuous and unvarying in its message. It should never admit a glimmer of doubt in its own claims, or concede the tiniest element of right in the claims of the other side."--Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf

COMMENT #11 [Permalink]

... Ernest A. Canning said on 2/26/2010 @ 8:52 pm PT...





Well, that may be a stretch, Big Dan. In the words of the immortal Chick Hearn, the Detroit Lions couldn't beat the Sisters of Mercy.

COMMENT #12 [Permalink]

... Soul Rebel said on 2/26/2010 @ 11:49 pm PT...





Lora and Ernest - great observation. It was this attitude that scared me the most about the Bush administration. Aside from their generally batshit crazy policies, it was an uncanny singularly unnerving fact that any number of them (and especially their press secretaries - Fleischer, McClellan, Perino) would flat-out lie on camera, with the full knowledge that anyone with half a brain knew they were lying and could likely prove it with an 8th-grade research capacity. It was unmitigated gall, a coded "Fuck You" to all of who cared but were essentially powerless. And the media rarely, if ever called any of them on it. And if they did, the exchange went soething like this: But you said we'll get him dead or alive. I don't think I said that. No, I have it right here. I never said that. Well, if you'll just watch this short clip. That wasn't me. But that is, in fact, you at the Press Conference. It seems like some people are just interested in finger-pointing, rather than how to best protect the American people. And so those of us here love the rare bird like Grayson, or more recently Anthony Wiener - if for nothing more than their rare willingness to call the bastards liars in public.

COMMENT #13 [Permalink]

... Jeannie Dean said on 2/27/2010 @ 12:26 am PT...





I'd just like to jump in quickly and 'hear, hear' that comment, SR. Lora's #5 rings little truth bells in all my gut-sacs (I'm not sure how many of those you're anatomically supposed to have but I think I have at least one extra.) Yes, Lora. I agree. What makes it okay for the NYT is Spirit of the Age; the Nasty-Macro of the Ever-Ragin'Now. Makes Ann Coulter's act seem antiquated. (It do make a gal fret about what next media horror the sliding scale of our devolving standards will deliver us!) And thank you to both Lora and Ernest for posting portions of the Pimposter(*) transcripts along with summations and brief analysis. I tried to read them several times on my own but I just can't - they make my butter curdle premature.

They Age me with Rage. So, thanks for sparing me the trauma of having my face freeze in a position that would suggest to strangers on public transportation that I'm not okay, n' all. (*props to T.R.O.) (TUNGA! Where you been?)

COMMENT #14 [Permalink]

... Big Dan said on 2/27/2010 @ 4:53 am PT...





Rachel Maddow explains The Republican Noise Machine: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/#35612802 And guess where the Missile Defense Logo batshit crazy rumor started? On Breitbart's site!

COMMENT #15 [Permalink]

... Big Dan said on 2/27/2010 @ 4:55 am PT...





CNN in the missile defense logo reporting, is like the NYTimes with the pimp reporting. CNN attributes their "reporting" and "news" of this logo conspiracy to "a buzz on the internet" and "people are saying" instead of "Breitbart and rightwingers control the liberal media". RIP liberal mainstream media.

COMMENT #16 [Permalink]

... Big Dan said on 2/27/2010 @ 5:05 am PT...





It's good that we are exposing these smear stories one by one, that has to be done. But additionally I think we must always add the bigger picture which is the millions of dollars of mechanics that the rightwing has put into place over the years to accomplish getting these smears into the mainstream media: http://www.motherjones.c...republican-noise-machine THAT is REALLY the story. And how the MSM simply acts like a stenographer and runs the stories. How about the Orly Taitz/birther story? It's endless because of the mechanics they have in place to do it. It's one after another after another, and if you don't get to the root problem, it is endless as we are seeing.

COMMENT #17 [Permalink]

... BlueHawk said on 2/27/2010 @ 5:55 am PT...





Big Dan and Ernest; RE: Detroit Lions Come on now...the Lions are a touchy subject with me. You guys are picking low hanging fruit...

COMMENT #18 [Permalink]

... David Lasagna said on 2/27/2010 @ 10:29 am PT...





Read Soul Rebel @ 12 and thought, "Hear. Hear." Then immediately Jeannie Dean @ 13 hear hearing as if for me and throwing in additional points about Lora and Ernest that I hear hear, too. There was an additional point of explanation on one of these recent Brad postings(maybe from Boehlert or Foser)worth repeating. It's what appears to be an extreme reluctance/sensitivity to being perceived as having made a mistake or being unreliable. Because the world will end for them in some way(they seem to believe) if they've fucked up, a common response is simply deny/ignore that they have. For many this immediately compounds the original mistake and intensifies in us the feelings of distrust the miscreant is desperately hoping to assuage. But astonishingly, as a tactic, this sort of denial of reality(as Ernest points out with the Hitler quote)is all too effective. What I am beside myself with curiosity is--what is the consciousness of the people doing the dodging/denying/distorting/lying? For these guys at the Times, for all those Republicans at the health care "summit", for Obama when he does the exact opposite of what he promised--what is their consciousness during these episodes of complete self-contradiction? How do they resolve in their own minds the complete contradiction of their own words? Why doesn't it torment them? Or does it? How can their bodies/minds/beings live in such obvious contradiction with itself? Now that I ask these questions I'm remembering there is some school of thought out of Chicago I think, can't remember the guy's name right now, that could help explain maybe some of it. The premise is that there is an elite who should run things. Since the common people don't know what's right or good and since you can't just say that to them because they're too stupid to understand and will only make a ruckus, it's perfectly fine to lie and manipulate. Because only this select group really gets it. And it's their responsibity to lead the rabble, even against their will, to the better life. And I think I read that there were a lot of Republicans(from Bush administrations) who subscribed to this guy's teachings. What's his name? Schwartz? Something like that? Ernest, do you know this one?

COMMENT #19 [Permalink]

... David Lasagna said on 2/27/2010 @ 10:32 am PT...





Bluehawk-- The Lions had Barry Sanders for nine years. Nobody can take that away. He was as good as anyone ever. And he quit when he was still great. Extraordinary.

COMMENT #20 [Permalink]

... Soul Rebel said on 2/27/2010 @ 10:32 am PT...





Leo Strauss.

COMMENT #21 [Permalink]

... Lora said on 2/27/2010 @ 11:09 am PT...





I think we should adopt as one of our slogans Al Franken's brilliant phrase: YOU'RE NOT ENTITLED TO YOUR OWN FACTS! I don't know if he invented that one, I think he did, but anyway it seems to be catching on. Both Joe Biden and Nancy Pelosi (in paraphrase) have used it recently to counter wingnut disinformation. Maybe some of the Dems are ready to grow a pair...? (I know, I know, I'm the eternal optimist.) So, Hitler is the one who came up with the right wingnut propaganda psy-ops disinformation brainwashing protocol, eh? (Thanks to Ernest @ 10.) Makes PERFECT sense. Thanks Jeannie (@ 13) --- that was my own little attempt at fact- (or interpretation-) checking. I found the whole thing just very sad. O'Keefe strikes me as being just twisted. Hannah --- MAYBE there is hope for Hannah. I give her three years to come to terms with reality. Hannah, maybe you were brainwashed once, but now you have the opportunity to open your eyes and look around you. Your choice.

COMMENT #22 [Permalink]

... Big Dan said on 2/27/2010 @ 11:50 am PT...





Detroit Lions: I remember Greg Landry at QB years ago. They used to have good teams. They had Billy Sims, then Barry Sanders. The thing with how the right has taken over the "liberal media", is that they LIE. People say MSNBC is the FOX "news" of the left. MSNBC is just pointing out the right's lies on a corporate owned channel. That's propaganda from the left? Pointing out their lies and how they do it? That's EDUCATIONAL! Look at that Rachel clip I posted above. The problem is: the right LIES. LIES work on idiots and people who don't have the time to research. They know this. I would say that maybe the left should start a LIE MACHINE like the right, but the left doesn't do that. So the left has time taken up disputing the non-stop barrage of LIES from the right. They know this. It's a good plan. Only people of ill repute would do it, though.

COMMENT #23 [Permalink]

... Big Dan said on 2/27/2010 @ 11:53 am PT...





Case in point: while we're doing the O'Keefe/pimp thing, Breitbart is busy starting up the Missile Defense Agency rumor. Etc, etc, etc... In just the last year: birthers, hanging around with terrorists, Bill Ayers, Missile Defense Agency logo, death panels...I can go on and on and on, it's non-stop. Maybe some kind of running list should be made and kept.

COMMENT #24 [Permalink]

... David Lasagna said on 2/27/2010 @ 12:17 pm PT...





Thanks, Soul.

COMMENT #25 [Permalink]

... Ernest A. Canning said on 2/27/2010 @ 1:59 pm PT...





Re David Lasagna #18. Soul Rebel is correct. It is Leo Strauss, who is considered the father of neoconservatism. There is an excellent book by Shadia Drury, Leo Strauss & the American Right, which I would highly recommend if you have the time and the interest to read and fully appreciate just how dangerously authoritarian neoconservatives are. As explained by Prof. Drury, Strauss believed that a religion is necessary to provide a society with a single public orthodoxy which defines what is true and false, right and wrong, noble and base. (Compare that to the tenets of right-wing fundamentalist Christian theology). Strauss objects to secularism not because he is Pius but because it erodes community. For Strauss religion may be an opiate of the masses, but the masses need to be drugged. In Strauss’s view, truth is to be savored by the few, but is dangerous for the consumption of the many. "Liberal education succeeds only in cultivating a dangerous open-mindedness that erodes wholehearted attachment to ‘one’s own’ traditions and prejudices. A true education must inculcate the values of society as absolute and inviolable, while teaching the truth to a small elite intended to govern society indirectly through the influence it exerts on the powerful." This is why Strauss cultivates an elite which makes a virtue of lying and dissembling. Prof. Drury responds to the Straussian message by noting: "Strauss espouses...blind and thoughtless adherence to a doctrine whose secrecy shields it from scrutiny and criticism. [Its] pernicious influence [lies] in the kind of elites he cultivates --- an elite that is not fit for power because it is neither wise nor good. It is not wise because it cannot defend its beliefs before the tribunal of reason; it preaches only to the converted." Think back to the band of neoconservatives who led us into the war in Iraq and you get the picture. Responding to Strauss's elitist view of philosopher-prophets controlling society, Drury adds: "Strauss’s philosopher-prophet falls pray to his own bodyguard of lies; he begins to believe that he is in truth the humanly perfect manifestation of the divine mind, in fact, the only divinity available. After all, he is the author of the law….The philosopher-prophet runs the risk of self delusion on a grand scale." Drury also makes an interesting reference to Hanna Arendt and the use of propaganda: “Hanna Arendt described totalitarianism as the triumph of politics over truth.” Arendt believed that “propaganda or the systematic attempt to conceal the truth was the fundamental ploy of totalitarian politics.” If you look at the history of the American hard-right of the past decade, especially as embodied in Fox "New" you can see Arendt's "totalitarian politics" in full swing.

COMMENT #26 [Permalink]

... Lora said on 2/27/2010 @ 2:50 pm PT...





Thanks to Ernest for the references and lesson in hard-right wingnut politics. Keep at 'em, Jon Stewart, Brad Friedman, Rachel Maddow, Helen Thomas, Dennis Kucinich, the state of Vermont, some other great fighters out there, and of course all of us here in Bradville! We put you wingnuts (and the "liberal" duped dopes) on notice: You're not entitled to your own facts! We will be the checkingist fact-checkers of all time! You're going DOWwwNnnnn!

COMMENT #27 [Permalink]

... David Lasagna said on 2/27/2010 @ 4:36 pm PT...





Thanks, Ernest @ 25-- Thanks for all that. I'll get that book. I think I maybe read an article or something by that author years ago because much of that was sounding familiar. It'll be good(and terrifying)to fully check it out. Yes, we do seem in a lot of ways to be on their schedule to hell. Wow there's a lot to attend to.

COMMENT #28 [Permalink]

... DGPNorth said on 2/27/2010 @ 4:40 pm PT...





In game theory terms, the results were foreseeable because the reaction was mathematically predictable; the response could be projected—within an acceptable range of probabilities. Okeefe was a provocateur. The NYTs knew it and ran with it. Note to Ernest A. Canning: They may be Neocons, but ultimately they're Zionists , and that's what this is all about. Doug

COMMENT #29 [Permalink]

... renzoku bb.com said on 2/27/2010 @ 9:14 pm PT...





soul, lasagna and ernest,

gracias and keep going. please. yep strauss and the chicago school. it's freidman and all neolibs and neocons too. economics and poli sci. their students ran with it for pinochet among others. it's well developed in naomi klein's "shock doctrine." (I'll save my usual rant. yeh. it's intentional and well orchestrated. also noam chomsky went into it. easiest and probably best outlined source is a bbc doc: "power of nightmares" http://www.youtube.com/w...next_from=PL&index=1 it was a three part series and this is the first 10 minutes of the first part. think they go into strauss' mentors too. now I gotta watch it again. oh well. it's well worth it. It also goes back way before mein kampf. john adams wanted more centralized and less democratic control. and went so far as to jail ben franklin's grandson (as well as shut down his publishing business) for using a mighty pen against pres adams. have a good week all. please keep surprising me well for next weekend. in a good way.

COMMENT #30 [Permalink]

... renzoku bb.com said on 2/27/2010 @ 9:21 pm PT...





sayed kotb by the way. anyone hear tell of prince alahweed's pending deal with newscorp to buy more shares? sounds like murdoch's stake is down to like 30% and he's worried a bigger bully can step in and displace his shareholding primacy and he's changing web and cable content to keep from offending Saudis. speak well of elections in 2010 and the citizen's united ruling?

COMMENT #31 [Permalink]

... renzoku bb.com said on 2/27/2010 @ 9:26 pm PT...





alright. I'm correctin myself before you guys need to. I'm mixin neocons and neolibs. easy for me to do considering where they're foundation is and how close their goals align. they might as well be the same. gracias for the patience and I'll reread and rewatch sources again before postin more here.

COMMENT #32 [Permalink]

... OR Native said on 2/27/2010 @ 9:38 pm PT...





The NYT's refusal to retract/restate a published error when faced with such overwhelming evidence presented from a professional source like Brad makes me wonder what OTHER corrections are NOT being made when the person providing the proof of fail is not as persistent or has the time to accumulate the NYS's new standard of a "mountain" of incontrovertible evidence. The NTY's credibility now having been shot to hell the question is now who can we trust?

COMMENT #33 [Permalink]

... Soul Rebel said on 2/28/2010 @ 6:18 am PT...





OR Native (Hello, southerly neighbor) The NTY's credibility now having been shot to hell the question is now who can we trust? The NYTs credibility was shot long before this, this is just the icing on the cake. But to answer your question - this blog you can trust. It is honest-to-nonexistent-god the only source that I can be 100% sure that if BF posts it, it is true. Why? Because BF backs everything up like he was Carbonite. If there isn't a credible source, you won't see it here. Having read the above Edmonds article on Flynt's site, I was thrilled to see BradBlog listed as the second recommended site in the upper right corner. That is a "witness", IMHO. Beyond the man himself, BFs regular readers and commenters are generally a credible source of information - and Brad takes on disinformation with a vengeance if it is posted here by a commenter. So bottom line is that you've found a good comfy chair to hand out in and watch the madness. Stay a while.

COMMENT #34 [Permalink]

... Ernest A. Canning said on 2/28/2010 @ 6:33 am PT...





“To assume that the conventional opinions are true, and that dissenting opinions should be silenced, is to rob mankind of the opportunity to exchange error for truth.”--Shadia Drury, Leo Strauss & the American Right

COMMENT #35 [Permalink]

... Lora said on 2/28/2010 @ 8:12 am PT...





Propaganda and suppression of anti-state ideas is of course very old. What is new in this country (or seems relatively new, especially in the last decade), is the particular set of right-wingnut tactics used to promote their party line and suppress any other truth or ideas. Allow me to re-quote Hitler (from Ernest's #10 comment) : "All effective propaganda must be limited to a very few points and must harp on these slogans until the last member of the public understands what you want him to understand...Propaganda [has] to be continuous and unvarying in its message. It should never admit a glimmer of doubt in its own claims, or concede the tiniest element of right in the claims of the other side."--Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf We really saw this in the simplification of Bush's messages to the public. Maybe he was dumb like a fox. More like, he was dumbing down what he wanted to get across to the public, as in "[limiting] to a very few points." Then take all the pundits who would then "harp on these slogans." They still do. They take a phrase like "The liberal media" and repeat it endlessly. How can the "last member of the public" avoid understanding it? They are "continuous and unvarying in their message," as in "the war on terror." Most particularly, as in any Republican member of Congress, or any right-wing blogger, or any right-wing pundit, speaker, tea BAGGER (Hey, they used the term first --- it was THEIR mistake and I'm lovin' it!), or any wingnut commenter on any blog anywhere: They "never admit a glimmer of doubt in its own claims, or concede the tiniest element of right in the claims of the other side." This last tactic, when I finally realized what was going on, led me to realize, more than anything else, that we are being manipulated and brainwashed on a grand, organized scale. Now I know where these tactics originated (or at least were consolidated into an organized method). How ironic that the very people who love to compare our president to Hitler are following a script from Hitler's playbook.

COMMENT #36 [Permalink]

... Ernest A. Canning said on 2/28/2010 @ 8:41 am PT...





Smack dead on, Lora @35. In Outfoxed: Rupert Murdoch’s War on Journalism, Robert Greenwald exposes the Fox "News" daily memo which delivers the simplistic message of the day that all Fox anchors must resort to during their broadcasts. Greenwald follows up with a segment in which you see one Fox anchor after another spew out the words, "flip-flopper," with respect to John Kerry. The segment is hilarious until you stop to realize that this method of simplistic messages, repeated over and over again "until the last member of the public understands what you want him to understand" comes straight out of Mein Kampf. And then there's dyslexic idiot, George W. Bush, who on May 24, 2005 told assembled middle-school students what he was really up to. "See in my line of work you got to keep repeating things over and over and over again for the truth to sink in, to kind of catapult the propaganda."

COMMENT #37 [Permalink]

... Jeannie Dean said on 2/28/2010 @ 12:36 pm PT...





Lora, I want to carry you around in my pocket with me so you can continue to so eloquently validate my perceptions as completely sane: "...we are being manipulated and brainwashed on a grand, organized scale." Bingo-Kozingo, Sister! Brainwashed. Why is no one using the appropriate terminology (except Strauss and Hitler, that is?) We have an army of angry brainwashed, violent, zombie Tea-tards on our hands. It blows my mind to consider how far in advance the corpo-fascists must have had to prepare for and grow this kind of mob; just add a pepper-spray of indignant rage and cynicism with just a dash of incitement, and yes - what we're facing is a (info)war with the brainwashed quarter-masses within our own population; our weak-minded countrymen frothing to fight us, the unarmed and educated fellow middle-class Americans, on behalf of Enron. ...shouting FREEDOM FREEDOM USA while they do so. They have been franchised and branded to fight for the wrong side as Hitler-lite. And they, unlike the majority of the American modest middle being held captive in the backseat while they drive, they sure do LOVE their guns... So, why aren't we talking about how to "deprogram" them, like we would any group of citizens whose minds had been effectively co-opted by a cult of destructive personality? Hell, we have CONGRESSMEN cited as openly complicit with the act of flying planes into buildings as a form of reasonable protest...shittin'myself about that. ...that does it. I'm learning kick-boxing. THE NEW YORK TIMES Public Editor #CRAIG HOYT gets paid *and* prints right-wing lies! #NYTIMESFAIL #BRADBLOG http://bit.ly/a4OBVF

less than 20 seconds ago via web (FYI - a cursory google search of "Craig Hoyt" now brings up Bradblog as the THIRD link to more info on him just behind his official NYT byline sites!)

COMMENT #38 [Permalink]

... Jeannie Dean said on 2/28/2010 @ 2:22 pm PT...





Seems there's a point I didn't make above that's nagging at me, won't let me get back to what I was doing before... ...and I think it is this: until we start using the appropriate terms, (ie brainwashing, information wars, de-programming) we can't begin to articulate a formal strategy to counter. I mean no disrespect, but the longer we endlessly banter benign about how to "reach out" to them, or how to "love them into better behavior", the more we will be force-punting this country into an historical defeat. The more we expend tons of time and energy here patiently explaining to the trolling, flaming flamer-babies why they're so wrong they should be embarrassed when they clearly don't care if they're wrong - being wrong suits them just fine as their repeated pattern of boasting behavior proves beyond a shadow of a doubt - clearly they are here just to hurl the blog equivalents of molotov cocktails at the rest of us in a well coordinated (and effective) attempt to keep us from discussing and / or furthering our own line of defense and / or attack. Sorry about that crazy run-on.

Clearly, it had been building up for quite awhile and the appropriate punctuation just wouldn't cooperate with the fomenting angst. (I bet THAT was the culprit behind the aforementioned nagging! So glad I extricated it. Thanks, Dr. Bradblog!) Let me add that I get why this is so hard. I do (as chronicled in my "Teabagging with Aunt Sue and other Adverse Adventures" posted here in comment threads at Bradblog and...beyond.) It involves, or at least it feels like it involves giving up on the potential decency of fellow human beings, in some cases loved ones - who most of us (being decent ourselves) are inclined to give the benefit of the doubt. We assume they don't want to do us harm at the expense of their own deeply held, strangely prized misinformation. Or, as in my case, my decency combined with my super-ego belief in myself as some kind of great communicator, thinking I could save my Aunt Sue's brain from the terminal, malignant mental illness of willful ignorance that comes from watching too much FOX NEWS. Long story short: I couldn't.

Because my Aunt Sue is brainwashed. Denying the proper context of this massive brainwashing phenom puts us at a huge tactical disadvantage (especially as it relates to high technology as resource, which we now have available for a limited time only). There have to be more effective means of refuting /dissembling lies, re-enforcing fact based root assumptions, deprogramming without diffusing our own majority momentum. It's sad to me that so long after Greenwald's mortifying doc OUTFOXED, we still haven't come up with much as antidote. (...Ernest? Any reading you can suggest on how Germany was effectively "deprogrammed" post WW2 before we co-opted all their top-crazed NAZI thinkers and put them to work for the U.S.? Or did I already glean that from SLAUGHTERHOUSE 5? BTW, I'm getting that Strauss Book right away so I can read it right before kickboxing class.)

COMMENT #39 [Permalink]

... BlueHawk said on 2/28/2010 @ 2:34 pm PT...





New York Time veers Neo-con ... It's regarding a different issue...but the Times has fully been turned into a right wing, neo-con propaganda tool. Quote from the article... Many American progressives don’t want to recognize how bad the U.S. mainstream news media has become. It’s easier to praise a few exceptions to the rule and to hope that some pendulum will swing than to undertake the challenging task of building a new and honest media infrastructure. But the hard reality is that the U.S. news media is getting worse, with now both premier national newspapers – the New York Times and the Washington Post – decidedly sliding into the neocon camp, where the likes of the Wall Street Journal have long resided.

COMMENT #40 [Permalink]

... Jeannie Dean said on 2/28/2010 @ 3:17 pm PT...





WWwoow, BlueHawk. Did I hear on CNN last night as I was nodding off something about Iran leaving their nukes out in the open for everyone to see and how that's being perceived as some kind of "invitation" to attack? Or was that another one of my annoying but highly accurate 3:00 am premonitory visions?... In case anyone missed it, last week Glenn Greewald also piled on the NYT for their mysterious, jaw dropping editorial decisions. This one re: their recent op-ed that actually argued for the killing of MORE Muslim civilians in Afghanistan (?!)...

http://www.salon.com/new...010/02/22/nyt/index.html (Tweeting fresh: #CLARK HOYT @NEW YORK TIMES - RETRACT Inaccurate ACORN REPORTS or we will RETRACT our NYT subscriptions! #NYTIMESFAIL http://bit.ly/a4OBVF

half a minute ago via web )

COMMENT #41 [Permalink]

... Jeannie Dean said on 2/28/2010 @ 5:55 pm PT...





(my own post #39 - twitter feed and post-scripted paren info above amended to #CLARK HOYT, not Craig. My bad.)

COMMENT #42 [Permalink]

... David Lasagna said on 2/28/2010 @ 6:43 pm PT...





Dear Jeannie Dean re: brainwashing Yes, Project for the New American De-Programming is exactly what I'm working on. You know I will keep you posted. Related--Haven't read this for a long time, but some time after I was kicked out of my cult I came across a book called "Snapping: America's Epidemic of Sudden Personality Change". Interesting stuff about going in and out of belief systems. Sometimes people doing this on their own. Sometimes through intervention. Also an interesting chapter on brain information theory. I read it too long ago to remember well enough to be able to give a wholehearted recommendation today. If I get to it after all the other shit I have to read, I'll let you know. Oh yeah, I'm thinking that on this particular subject, for this particular problem we're the ones who probably will be writing the book. I'm guessing we may need to be coming up with some solutions that haven't been worked out yet. love,

Dave

COMMENT #43 [Permalink]

... Lora said on 2/28/2010 @ 7:16 pm PT...





Jeannie, There's the rub: how do we deprogram the people? We need to brainstorm how to fight the brainwashing.

COMMENT #44 [Permalink]

... Adam Fulford said on 2/28/2010 @ 8:32 pm PT...





It may be hopeless. Nothing seems to reach the neural synapses of politicians. Citizens are like hookers who still defend their neo-con pimps even after all kinds of abuses. (Barack Obama is a neo-con in liberal clothing)

COMMENT #45 [Permalink]

... Xisco said on 2/28/2010 @ 9:04 pm PT...





Lora and Jeannie,

I would suggest the incorporation of Entheogens into counciling sessions. Psilocyben, peyote, cannabis, etc. Entheogens are the quickest, simplest, safest way to empathy. That's one of the reason's their banned. paz

COMMENT #46 [Permalink]

... Big Dan said on 2/28/2010 @ 9:51 pm PT...





The NYT Veers Neocon By Robert Parry

February 28, 2010 Many American progressives don’t want to recognize how bad the U.S. mainstream news media has become. It’s easier to praise a few exceptions to the rule and to hope that some pendulum will swing than to undertake the challenging task of building a new and honest media infrastructure. That the New York Times has now embraced these neocon biases, almost with the ardor of the Washington Post, is a serious development for the U.S. news media and for the nation. http://www.consortiumnews.com/2010/022810.html

COMMENT #47 [Permalink]

... Big Dan said on 2/28/2010 @ 9:52 pm PT...





Whoops! BlueHawk posted that @ #39, sorry!

COMMENT #48 [Permalink]

... Big Dan said on 2/28/2010 @ 9:59 pm PT...





Is there anything more brilliant than for the ones who usurped the liberal media to continue calling it the liberal media? The entire sham wouldn't work unless they endlessly call it the liberal media every day, every hour, every chance they get. That is essential to do that or the whole thing wouldn't work. Who is still calling it the liberal media? We hear it everyday. It's the ones who took it over! Rush Limbaugh, Charles Krauthammer, Breitbart, the whole gang and those they represent. Why do they keep calling it liberal? So we won't realize they took it over.

COMMENT #49 [Permalink]

... Adam Fulford said on 3/1/2010 @ 1:24 am PT...





It's like a new version of, "The Night of the Living Dead." In this version, every mainstream media outlet and every politician (except maybe Dennis Kucinich and one or two others), and massive numbers of voters become brain-dead zombies. Only it's not fiction. It's real. Maybe it is The Emperor's New Clothes meets The Night Of The Living Dead. It is scary how stupid the media takes American citizens to be, how nakedly the facist (aka liberal) media disseminates lies not even bothering to even put on a veneer of objectivity. Clark Hoyt's responses --- those naked lies --- to Brad Friedman's questions just shows how mean-spirited and cynical the mainstream "liberal" (that is, neo-con) media is. Not even bothering to issue a token retraction after being caught in a bare-faced lie. The New York Times was attacking the very basis of the United States as a country --- democracy --- and broadcasting lies to help destroy it. It influenced politicians to cut funding for ACORN. ACORN'S crime? It registered voters, many of them in difficult economic circumstances. That is, voters who might not relate well to the neo-con agenda and vote fascist. I guess the mainstream corporate media is confident it can take over the Internet as well (It probably can, invisible bit by invisible bit, Supreme-Court-Supported corporate lobbyists pushing politicians to water down of little legal detail by little legal detail).

COMMENT #50 [Permalink]

... sophia said on 3/1/2010 @ 7:42 am PT...





That whole subject of brainwashing-aka mind control-is exactly what I was researching all day yesterday. I have found some freaky web sites, but unfortunately, after 10 years of trying to understand WHY, I have been forced to come to the conclusion that the ANSWER _IS_ FREAKY. Here's a link. Read it or not. The reports of the crowd control devices that pop your eardrums and make your skin feel like its burning are NOT far-fetched-mainstream media is telling us what we're in for. Pittsburgh G20 gathering with jackboot adornment was simply advance warning of what will happen when people start standing up. Which they probably won't because the electronic mind control, the chronic illness, the obesity, and the fear will have us seriouslu slowed down to begin with. Have a nice day! http://educate-yourself....towerarrays25may02.shtml

COMMENT #51 [Permalink]

... T.R.O. said on 3/1/2010 @ 8:16 am PT...





@#49 How ironic that the Pimpostor and Ho roadshow wasn't even ABOUT voting registration, now WAS it? Was there anything on those pimped up,tricked out Ho and Show tapes that was even about voting,whatsoever? ACORN was a resource to recruit census workers. The NeoCorporatist agenda does not want blacks and browns registered-that could alter voting demographics and make Neo conservative gerrymandering less easy. A perfect example is the birthplace of ACORN,that is New Orleans,Louisiana. Think back to Hurricane Katrina,and all the African American citizens that were stranded without food or water at the Superdome for days..then disbursed to various cities across the continent.An American diaspora. Think that didn't change the voting demographic? And what was the original home to many of these displaced citizens? The storm ravaged Ninth Ward.Today,it remains in ruins ,five years later,remaining much as it did immediately after Katrina...except with a whole lot fewer residents. Remember the Blackwater troops that were dispatched there,after the storm? Just so happens that Erik Prince's family is a big contributor to the Leadership Institute, the Morton Blackwell group that served as a training ground for the Pimpostor and his possee. The Prince family also gave seed money to Gary Bauer to found the Family Research Council,now headed by Tony Perkins. The Family Research Council is an offshoot of James Dobson's Focus on the Family. It is reported that O'Keefe is being represented by counsel with ties to Dobson's Focus on the Family. There is an undeniable and untenable racial,eugenicist mindset with this entire coterie of conservatives-and has nothing to do with democracy and everything to do with disempowerment and discrimination.

COMMENT #52 [Permalink]

... sophia said on 3/1/2010 @ 8:39 am PT...





@51. T.R.O. Right on, brother. That's why they were trying to set up Mary Landrieu. She's no help to her constituents, but this is all tied up with racist hatemongering. Thanks for laying it out so starkly & clearly. The Bushies are still running the show behind the scenes. Just do the research! My question-why are they sending such stupid numbskulls to do the job? Well, why NOT? They work cheap & if they screw up, the DOJ & MSM are so infiltrated that it just doesn't even matter. Don Siegelman can explain it all to you! Noone is being held accountable!

COMMENT #53 [Permalink]

... T.R.O. said on 3/1/2010 @ 9:12 am PT...





Re: Tony Perkins Perkins,from Baton Rouge,Louisiana-and presently head of Family Research Council, demonstrated in front of Mary Landrieu's office there(BR), about one month prior to the Pimpostor and the tele-pnony's aborted attempt to compromise Landrieu's communications system in her office in a New Orleans Federal building. Perkins was protesting that Landrieu was allegedly not answering constituents' phone calls about health care. Maybe that is because he was protesting on Christmas Eve-and the office was CLOSED?

But it's the same ruse that O'Keefe used in his failed and foiled New Orleans caper. Perkins and David Vitter are both affilated with Morton Blackwell,they all hail from Baton Rouge.Vitter is on the Borad of the Leadership Institute .

It is also signicant that Perkins and Vitter were a recipients of Abramoff money,stemming from Louisiana Indian casinos,along with Ralph Reed.

(BTW,Abramoff was a Young College Republican,trained under Blackwell,as was Karl Rove.) Family values?Just WHOSE family..and just WHAT values?

Check this out for some serious insight: Daily Kingfish:: LA-06: Woody Jenkins Is A LiarApr 10, 2008 ... His campaign manager was Tony Perkins from Baton Rouge, who, it was later revealed, bought David Duke's campaign mailing list from the ...

www.dailykingfish.com/diary/587/ - Cached Tony Perkins and White Supremacy - pandagon.netYou see Family Research Council honcho Tony Perkins frequently on the air to ... head has also sidled up to former Ku Klux Klan Grand Wizard David Duke. ... for the U.S. Senate in 1996, forked over $82500 to buy Duke's mailing list. ... pandagon.net/index.php/site/.../tony_perkins_and_white_supremacy/ - Cached

COMMENT #54 [Permalink]

... T.R.O. said on 3/1/2010 @ 11:13 am PT...





In addition, should anyone think the mention of Blackwater is merely tangential, I suggest that you read the Wikipedia entry for Woody Jenkins,most especially, the section that starts with the" US Senate Campaign of 1996"-relating to Woody's failed election loss to Mary Landrieu and his accusations of vote fraud in New Orleans. In addition to being a longtime friend of Morton Blackwell, Jenkins was one of the founders of CNP-Council for National Policy-and was instrumental in(Louisiana) Senator David Vitter's and Governor Bobby Jindal's political campaigns,recently. THEN, when you finish THAT, Google up Woody Jenkins and Amway. Yes,Amway, you know,the company owned Eric Prince's inlaws -his sister is married to a DeVos. Jenkins is a long time Amway distributor and has given speeches to their conventions. The DeVos family has a long ,documented history of donating to hard right Evangelicals.

COMMENT #55 [Permalink]

... T.R.O. said on 3/1/2010 @ 12:14 pm PT...





P.S.: Woody Jenkins used to give speeches on Louisiana's State House floor,with a jar containing a plastic fetus on display,all the while.

COMMENT #56 [Permalink]

... Soul Rebel said on 3/1/2010 @ 3:57 pm PT...





So what you're saying, TRO, is that the mob no longer just controls Vegas. They now own and fund the Republican Party. Sounds about right.

COMMENT #57 [Permalink]

... Jeannie Dean said on 3/2/2010 @ 1:48 am PT...





Xisco @ #45 ~ Wow! You have sent my imagination reeling with fantastic possibilities! I won't use up Brad's broadband and your kind attentions with the sordid details of the daydreaming you inspired, but it involved a TEABAGGER biodome holding cell full of budding Entheogens and Kite Flying Classes, where every P.O.P. (Prisoner of Peace) would be forced to watch every episode of Morgan Spurlock's "30 DAYS" while learning how to share snacks. I think you bring up a fascinating distinction - "deprogramming" as not just a question of re-education, and dissembling their brainwashing, but replacing damaged / blocked EMPATH arteries, so new empath can flow. That does seem to be where they show an equal if not even more disparaging critical lack. I know nothing of such alchemy, but I'd be happy to volunteer to do some independent research. Is there a grant?

COMMENT #58 [Permalink]

... Jeannie Dean said on 3/2/2010 @ 2:03 am PT...





Lora ~ David Lasagna really is diligently working this deprogramming problem (outside of the Bradblog) with more personal investment (and far more class) than I. Aunt Sue and I don't talk anymore, and probably won't - so admittedly all my efforts to advance common cause have been purely academic since she completely crazed out on me. Lasagna is using logic, patience and unconditional love in an arduous attempt to De-FOXIFY a loved one and combat the effects of Over-Becksposure. I track his progress with much interest and great hope. If anyone can do't...'tis a Lasagna.

COMMENT #59 [Permalink]

... Billy Bob Tweed said on 3/2/2010 @ 7:59 am PT...





I tuned into CNN "reliable Sources" on Sunday expecting Howard Kurtz to highlight this NYT farce. I guess I shouldn't be surprised he avoided it. Will Kurtz cover this? We need to light a fire under his arse.

COMMENT #60 [Permalink]

... popcorn said on 3/12/2010 @ 1:09 am PT...

