Thread: H6 - Stats and calculations This thread is 5 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 · NEXT»

Nelgirith







Promising

Supreme Hero

posted July 03, 2011 06:33 PM bonus applied by alcibiades on 23 Sep 2011. Edited by Nelgirith at 18:36, 03 Jul 2011. H6 - Stats and calculations



Thanks to Alexrom66 who posted the way Heroes stats are affecting damage on Heroic Corner. Here's the explanation in english



The table captions are in french, but it's fairly easy to understand ^^





1. Tooltip explanations.







Swords : Average Physical Damage = (Minimum Physical Damage + Maximium Physical Damage) / 2

Grey Shield : Might Defense

Blue Flame : Average Magical Damage = (Minimum Magical Damage + Maximium Magical Damage) / 2

Blue Shield : Magical Defense





As I explained in the other topic, the % on the unit tooltip are wrong. the value on this tooltip is the good old Defense value for the unit and not the Damage Absorption % tha can be seen in the in-combat tooltip.



The Damage Absorption can be calculated through the Defense - which I'll demonstrate later







2. Damage calculation



First, here comes the easy stuff. My Inferno army is fighting against several Imperial Griffons.







My stack of Demented is going to hit the Griffins. The Demented's damage range is [465-931] and the Griffins Damage Absorption is 29%.



Final Damage = Initial Damage Range * (1-(Damage Absorption / 100))

Final Damage = [465-931] * 0.71

Final Damage = [330.15 - 661.01]



Which is rounded to the closest integer :



Final Damage = [330 - 661]







The same calculation is done with units having magic based attacks, except that we take the Magic Defense of the unit, instead of the Physical Defense.









My Succubi attacking the same Griffin have a damage range of [649 - 1082] and the Griffins have a Magic Defense of 21%



Final Damage = [649 - 1082] * (1-0.21) = [649 - 1082] * 0.79

Final Damage = [512.71 - 854.78]



Which is rounded to :

Final Damage = [513 - 855]











3. Calculation of a stack's initial damage.



Basically, the stack's damage should be easy to calculate :



Damage = Single Creature Damage * Number of creatures







So, in my example, my 163 Succubi are each dealing [3 - 5] damage, so in total [163*3 - 163*5] = [489 - 815]



Which is quite far from the [649 - 1082] above ! This is because my Succubi are lead by a Hero which has a certain Attack value that increases their damage.



Let's see that now !







For Succubi, it's my Hero's Magic Attack that increases their damage (12).



Total Damage = Stack damage * Attack Hero Modifier



Alexrom66 has determined the formula that enables to calculate the modifier with the Attack value.



Hero modifier = ( 1 + ( Attack / 100)) ^ 2.5



With a Magic Attack of 12 :



Hero modifier = (1+(12/100))^ 2.5 = 1.12^2.5 = 1.3275...



And thus :



Total Damage = [489 - 815] * 1.3275 = [649.1475 - 1081.91] = [649 - 1082] !





4. Attack and Damage % evolution.



Here's a table of interesting values : For each Attack point brought by the Hero, you can see how much damage the unit will deal (considering that with 0 Attack, a stack does 100% damage)







And that's how the progression looks like :







Damage is slowly ramping up for each Attack point starting at +2.5% damage per Attack point.





5. Defense value and Damage Absorption.



Damage Absorption works in similar fashion, except that since damage absorption shouldn't ramp up, Alexrom66 determined that Black Hole is using the inverse function.



Damage Absorption = 100 * ( 1 - Defense Modifier)



Defense Modifier = 1 / (( 1 + (Total Defense / 100)) ^ 2.5)



with Total Defense = Hero Defense + Unit Defense



Let's take that stack of Griffins I was fighting earlier ...







They have 15 Might Defense (remember, it's not a % on this tooltip !). since the Griffins are neutral, there's no hero to boost them.



Total Defense = 15 + 0 = 15



Defense Modifier = 1 / ((1+(15/100)) ^ 2.5) = 1 / (1.15^2.5) = 0.705107605...



Damage Absorption = 100*(1-0.705107605) = 29.48 ~ 29%









6. Defense and Damage evolution.



Like before, here are interesting values to measure the evolution of Damage Absorption and Defense :







And here you can see the evolution :



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Vangelis21







Supreme Hero

Manchild

posted July 03, 2011 06:48 PM Very interesting stuff. One "complain" though. People should REALLY start taking into consideration that not everyone can do all that math. A simpler explanation for each will be appreciated

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Elvin







Admirable

Omnipresent Hero

What if Elvin was female?

posted July 03, 2011 06:53 PM Edited by Elvin at 18:53, 03 Jul 2011. Nice Here are the formulas as we were given:





Creature Might Damage (might based attack)=Creature Default Damage*(1+Hero Might Power/100)^2.5 (min-max)



Creature Might Defense=Hero Might Defense+Creature Default Might Defense



Creature Might Resistance=1-1/(1+Creature Might Defense/100)^2.5*100 [%]



Creature Magic Damage (magic based attack)=Creature Default Damage(1+Hero Magic Power/100)^2.5 (min-max)



Creature Magic Defense=Hero Magic Defense+Creature Default Magic Defense



Creature Magic Resistance=1-1/(1+Creature Magic Defense/100)^2.5*100 [%]

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ThunderTitan





Tavern Dweller

posted July 03, 2011 07:23 PM

Wait, so they took out the Attack attribute and the swords/flame thing are just the average damage of 1 unit from the stack?! And the Defence attribute simply reduces dmg by a fix amount for every creature?



LAME...



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Doomforge







Admirable

Undefeatable Hero

Retired Hero

posted July 03, 2011 08:15 PM Quote:

Wait, so they took out the Attack attribute and the swords/flame thing are just the average damage of 1 unit from the stack?! And the Defence attribute simply reduces dmg by a fix amount for every creature?



LAME...







possibly better balanced though



the less factors you have, the easier to balance them



the combination of att x damage and the IF factor (if def>att reduce by 2% per point, if att>def increase by 5% per point) was pretty confusing for non-geeks, and what's worse - it meant might heroes were overpowered at bigger maps.

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Fauch







Responsible

Undefeatable Hero

posted July 03, 2011 08:58 PM I'm not sure about that since it's a whole new formula. at least, with the previous one (even if it was slightly different in each game) we have a good idea of how it works, so I would say it is probably easier to balance.



what I'm thinking is that the damage reduction stays exactly the same whether you get attacked by goblins or by phoenix. Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link

thundertitan





Tavern Dweller

posted July 03, 2011 09:26 PM Edited by thundertitan at 21:44, 03 Jul 2011. Quote:

possibly better balanced though



the less factors you have, the easier to balance them



the combination of att x damage and the IF factor (if def>att reduce by 2% per point, if att>def increase by 5% per point) was pretty confusing for non-geeks, and what's worse - it meant might heroes were overpowered at bigger maps.



If by non-geeks you mean anyone who didn't finish 6th grade, then i agree.



And i really hate when they simplify things in the name of balance, especially since 90% of the time they don't balance it anyway.



Also, the Might heroes being OP (not just on bigger maps, Knowledge and Spell Power became redundant at some point, more Atk/Def always helped, and they could learn spells too), i assumed the switch to having different stats for might and magic attack/defence, with creatures relying on one or the other would already help with that a lot...



What this change does is remove a layer of the unique interaction between different units based on their Atk and Def scores...



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Vangelis21







Supreme Hero

Manchild

posted July 03, 2011 09:47 PM Quote: If by non-geeks you mean anyone who didn't finish 6th grade, then i agree.



this post was very very insulting to many people. I cannot follow all that math (let alone H5 math) and I am more educated than most people. try to be a little more careful when saying something because you might insult people even if it was not your intention.

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Doomforge







Admirable

Undefeatable Hero

Retired Hero

posted July 03, 2011 10:19 PM Quote:

What this change does is remove a layer of the unique interaction between different units based on their Atk and Def scores...







Truth is, if one wasn't overly interested in what they changed here, he would have barely noticed it anyway.

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alcibiades







Honorable

Undefeatable Hero

of Gold Dragons

posted July 03, 2011 10:27 PM Quote: Quote:

Wait, so they took out the Attack attribute and the swords/flame thing are just the average damage of 1 unit from the stack?! And the Defence attribute simply reduces dmg by a fix amount for every creature?



LAME...





possibly better balanced though



the less factors you have, the easier to balance them



the combination of att x damage and the IF factor (if def>att reduce by 2% per point, if att>def increase by 5% per point) was pretty confusing for non-geeks, and what's worse - it meant might heroes were overpowered at bigger maps.

Easier to balance, perhaps, but also more boring, as it removes the variation in the game. If all factions had identical creatures, they would be perfectly balanced, but who would want that? As with the resource reduction, it contributes to the game just being more one-dimensional and flat.

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kusosaru







Hired Hero

posted July 05, 2011 03:50 AM Edited by kusosaru at 03:52, 05 Jul 2011. Quote: before, creatures attack and defense were relative to other creatures defense and attack. but now, it seems that the values are absolute.

Nothing wrong with that.... except that they forgot to compensate Elite/Champion creatures for the lack of Attack skill. (which means they lack some 50%+ bonus damage compared to core creatures if compared to previous parts) Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link

Nelgirith







Promising

Supreme Hero

posted July 05, 2011 09:55 AM Edited by Nelgirith at 09:59, 05 Jul 2011. Quote: before, creatures attack and defense were relative to other creatures defense and attack. but now, it seems that the values are absolute.



Well, it still is the case.



Instead of having a creature's attack value, it's directly using its damage which is increased by the Hero's attack.

This damage value is then decreased by the opponent's absorption which is calculated the same way the attack bonus is, but based on defense.

The only real difference is that there's not a linear progression of Attack to damage or Defense to damage reduction ratio.



In previous Heroes, it was calculated like (A-B)*X while in H6, it's calaculated like A*X - B*Y which is quite similar except that they can control the way Attack impacts on damage and the way defense impacts on absorption while in previous Heroes, it was plain linear.







On another point, I'm surprised that the hero's Magic Attack doesn't affect his spell damage. Right now, it's only a hero's level that's boosting his spells damage. Send Instant Message | Send E-Mail | View Profile | Quote Reply | Link