Nazara Profile Blog Joined May 2014 United Kingdom 235 Posts Last Edited: 2015-12-30 13:37:47 #1



Another thread about same and different issues.

There are things I haven't had a chance to talk about before, due to time constraints. Some of them are about design. Some of them about balance. Some of it is purerly my personal rant.



I already announced before, that by no means I am a good player. However, since the release of LotV, I have actually played more then 50-60 games of SC2 in a year, which before was my personal record. Right now at the time of writing (25/12/15) I have played 282 games, split between 1v1 (Plat), 2v2 (Dia) and 3v3 (Plat again).



However, beside showing me what other design principles set by Blizzard could be changed, my opinion on most if not all previous points I talked about in my previous thread has not changed. Execution (my suggestions) of improvements has changed in some examples. I will try to keep it brief and format it better for everyone's eye health.

Link to my previous thread:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/legacy-of-the-void/497696-sc2-could-be-so-much-more-design-and-balance Also posted on Blizzard forums.Another thread about same and different issues.There are things I haven't had a chance to talk about before, due to time constraints. Some of them are about design. Some of them about balance. Some of it is purerly my personal rant.I already announced before, that by no means I am a good player. However, since the release of LotV, I have actually played more then 50-60 games of SC2 in a year, which before was my personal record. Right now at the time of writing (25/12/15) I have played 282 games, split between 1v1 (Plat), 2v2 (Dia) and 3v3 (Plat again).However, beside showing me what other design principles set by Blizzard could be changed, my opinion on most if not all previous points I talked about in my previous thread has not changed. Execution (my suggestions) of improvements has changed in some examples. I will try to keep it brief and format it better for everyone's eye health.Link to my previous thread:





Parasitic Bomb:

“We explored potential design changes as well as numbers tuning in this area, and for now we wonder if tuning the damage down to give more time for opposing players to micro against the ability is better.”

This is flawed way of thinking. It has been beaten to death, that the way to make PB fair for both players is to:



- Damage doesn't stack



The problem with PB is that the damage is almost explosive. Once you get 4 Vipers and cast 4 PB's on enemy's air it disappears in one or two seconds. With the change (damage nerf), you need to get 2-3 more Vipers, and the situation is exactly the same – all air units will be dead in the next 1-3 seconds.

This change doesn't do anything to this retarded mechanic – it only makes it cost more.



- PB doesn't kill units



This is an extension of the previous one. If PB doesn't kill units, then no matter how many PB's are casted, you can still save your units. Be it T repair, P shield regeneration or Z passive regeneration, a unit can be brought back to full health (not as much in P case, but whatever).

Visibility.

Seeker Missile paints unit red. Widow Mine shows a vector to targeted unit. Irradiate in BW was easy enough to make out which unit is affected. However, PB gives no clear indication besides a circle. Problem with the circle is, once your units are stacked, it is hard to see the circle itself and then make out which unit is dead in the center. With multiple PBs this is even worse.

Unless it's my graphic settings that make distinguishing affected unit hard.



The key to good design is to make casters powerful, without making mass caster armies viable (like Infestor in WoL).



Blizzard's solution doesn't solve anything. Again, it is like beating the cat for not eating salad. The solution is not not to give the cat less salad in his meat. But to give it proper cat food.



To make Viper good in low numbers, but scaling bad in bigger numbers, following changes can be applied:

- Damage doesn't stack. No matter how many bombs you cast at once, the damage over time stays the same and each cast on top is wasted. With this change, the damage can be actually increased even up to 120 over 6 seconds. Yes, 120. Take a look at some clock nearby, and count 6 seconds. 6 seconds is actually quite a lot of time, and it is enough to give the player the opportunity to micro affected units away. If you can't micro and split away 1-4 units in 6 seconds, then don't complain about balance – l2p.



- PB doesn't kill units. This can be done instead of the one above and serves the same purpose → it gives a comeback potential by giving you a chance to save your units, even if you mis-micro.





Clear visual indication or keeping damage over time below ~20/s is enough to give the player the chance to micro against PB. If clear visual indication is given, then the damage over time can even be increased to something like a 25-30 damage/s (as in, time can be decreased so damage is applied over lower amount of time). This is flawed way of thinking. It has been beaten to death, that the way to make PB fair for both players is to:- Damage doesn't stackThe problem with PB is that the damage is almost explosive. Once you get 4 Vipers and cast 4 PB's on enemy's air it disappears in one or two seconds. With the change (damage nerf), you need to get 2-3 more Vipers, and the situation is exactly the same – all air units will be dead in the next 1-3 seconds.This change doesn't do anything to this retarded mechanic – it only makes it cost more.- PB doesn't kill unitsThis is an extension of the previous one. If PB doesn't kill units, then no matter how many PB's are casted, you can still save your units. Be it T repair, P shield regeneration or Z passive regeneration, a unit can be brought back to full health (not as much in P case, but whatever).Visibility.Seeker Missile paints unit red. Widow Mine shows a vector to targeted unit. Irradiate in BW was easy enough to make out which unit is affected. However, PB gives no clear indication besides a circle. Problem with the circle is, once your units are stacked, it is hard to see the circle itself and then make out which unit is dead in the center. With multiple PBs this is even worse.Unless it's my graphic settings that make distinguishing affected unit hard.The key to good design is to make casters powerful, without making mass caster armies viable (like Infestor in WoL).Blizzard's solution doesn't solve anything. Again, it is like beating the cat for not eating salad. The solution is not not to give the cat less salad in his meat. But to give it proper cat food.To make Viper good in low numbers, but scaling bad in bigger numbers, following changes can be applied:- Damage doesn't stack. No matter how many bombs you cast at once, the damage over time stays the same and each cast on top is wasted. With this change, the damage can be actually increased even up to 120 over 6 seconds. Yes, 120. Take a look at some clock nearby, and count 6 seconds. 6 seconds is actually quite a lot of time, and it is enough to give the player the opportunity to micro affected units away. If you can't micro and split away 1-4 units in 6 seconds, then don't complain about balance – l2p.- PB doesn't kill units. This can be done instead of the one above and serves the same purpose → it gives a comeback potential by giving you a chance to save your units, even if you mis-micro.Clear visual indication or keeping damage over time below ~20/s is enough to give the player the chance to micro against PB. If clear visual indication is given, then the damage over time can even be increased to something like a 25-30 damage/s (as in, time can be decreased so damage is applied over lower amount of time).





8 Armor Ultralisk and forcing Terran to move on from Bio:

We completely agree with those of you saying that Ultralisks weren’t underpowered in Heart of the Swarm. However, the goal of this change was to have Terran play be more interesting in the later stages of the game rather than Marine/Marauder/Medivacs being the answer for near all threats Zerg can bring out.

This is the problem Blizzard, you can't force people to try other things if they already did that and concluded that they are not worth the effort. Blizzard, you want to get Bio in SC2 to transition in within games, just like in Brood War Bio transitioned into Bio+Science Vessel+Tank, and later into full Mech.



I fully understand what you are trying to achieve. But I do not recognize your change to Ultralisk armor as the best. This is an example of terrible hard-counter system in SC2. Instead of an armor upgrade, you could give us additional tech to research to improve Ultralisks speed, so it would soft counter Bio, but still not be invulnerable against it.



Also, there is a problem of which role should Ultralisk have. Best and easiest comparison would be Brood War, where there are 2 distinct Zerg melee units, each given its own role.

BW Zergling has higher DPS with and without the upgrade then the SC2 Zergling. It is a DPS dealer with low hp, easily countered by AoE.

BW Ultralisk is cheaper, faster, bit less tanky and with a fraction of a DPS that SC2 Ultralisk have. It is the main damage tank to the composition, but without great damage on its own.



Both units synergize. Ultralisk won't be able to kill much, but will survive long. Zerglings will die quickly if not for the Ultralisk drawing fire to it, but will get most of the damage done when supported.

In SC2, the roles are blurred. Zerglings don't have as much DPS. And Ultralisk is even tankier (understandable with the introduction of Marauder and Immortal), but also deals great amout of damage with its splash attack.



This is the problem of Ultraling army. Ultralisk is too good on its own. Having 8 armor on Ultralisk is fine, if its splash and damage is lower. Take some DPS away from the unit, to make the 8 armor a bit more fair to Terran Bio.

Proposition? Maybe all splash deals 5 damage +1 for each attack upgrade, instead of 33% of main damage. And lower the damage from 35(+3) to 25(+3). Give us a tanky, but low DPS Ultralisk, and higher DPS Zergling instead (that is, if you increase duration/damage of the Psionic Storm, which you should, but more about it later).

But whatever you do, don't make a unit that is both tanky, and great at killing stuff.



Let's get back to Terran.





Problem with Terran not transitioning out of Bio is, there is nothing worth transitioning to.



There are too many things in LotV that only or mostly synergize with Bio.

- Liberator is low rate of fire, high impact unit. It is bad at killing great amounts of weak units, but good at killing strong but few in number. It is the opposite of Terran Bio, and can be easily reactored out of one Starport. It kills Mutalisks and other air in seconds, while it also kills high armor units with ease. Therefore, it has a great synergy with Bio.



- Widow Mine – same principle, low rate of fire, splash, high impact damage – it also covers the same thing as the Liberator, only not as effectively.



- Hellbat is considered Biological, and can tank quite a lot of damage for the squishier Marines/Marauders.



- Tanks are as mobile as Bio with the introduction of the Medivac pick up. The issue of Tank's low damage and inability to control space has not been addressed. Tank synergizes with the Bio. But Tank still sucks on its own or as a core part of a composition.



All those units can work while supported by Bio. But take them all together, and try to make up a composition, and it will suck. Most of those units have low rate of fire, but high impact damage. They do not deal efficiently with large numbers of enemies (Hellbats don't count – their attack is very short ranged and even then, coupling them with Tanks or Mines will deal a lot of friendly fire to them – their mobility on the battlefield is also an issue). Even Widow Mines, which are quite good at dealing with Lings sometimes, are not reliable and take up a lot of supply if you want to set a mine field. The rate of fire is also terrible.



Truth is Blizzard, until you give players a good base for an alternative composition, people are still going to play Bio supported by other units.



This threads have been around since ancient times. And I will repeat again how to give us a core unit to base a composition around.

Siege Tank:

- Supply down to 2 from 3.

- Cost down from 150/125 to 150/100.

- Damage from 35+15 vs armored to 35+35 vs armored.

- Cooldown from 2 to 3.

- Overkill mechanic introduced (make Siege Tank's attack an invisible projectile or some other way).

- Remove Medivac pick-up mechanic.



Slowing the attack but making it stronger is more punishing to most units. It hits hard, creating psychologically the “no go zone” covered by Tanks. Tank hits can no longer be ignored, even a single one. Splash can be changed to go from 100% to 75%, 50% and 25% instead of the current 100% and straight to 50% and then 25%.

Lowering supply allows players to leave Tanks in defensive positions, without such a severe impact on main army.

Lowering the cost goes in line with lower supply and rate of fire.

Medivac pick-up is removed as it breaks tanks identity (immobile zone control unit).

Overkill is brought to encourage pushing out with Tanks instead of waiting till 200/200 supply is reached.



Without a core unit there is no composition. Be it Collosus of old supported by Gateway, or Marine Marauder supported by other units, there has to be one unit that is good and needs support of other units to survive long enough to deal its damage.



Other changes can incorporate making either Cyclone or the Thor to be a viable Factory based anti-air. I provided example of unit stats in my previous thread:

And even if the stats of units and polls on what people think about them don't move you, let me direct you to another great write up. Even as I read it only after writing and finishing my first thread, me and the author (Falling) share a lot of ideas and even the principle on what is Mech and what types of units it requires.

Link to the thread about the Mech:

This is the problem Blizzard, you can't force people to try other things if they already did that and concluded that they are not worth the effort. Blizzard, you want to get Bio in SC2 to transition in within games, just like in Brood War Bio transitioned into Bio+Science Vessel+Tank, and later into full Mech.I fully understand what you are trying to achieve. But I do not recognize your change to Ultralisk armor as the best. This is an example of terrible hard-counter system in SC2. Instead of an armor upgrade, you could give us additional tech to research to improve Ultralisks speed, so it would soft counter Bio, but still not be invulnerable against it.Also, there is a problem of which role should Ultralisk have. Best and easiest comparison would be Brood War, where there are 2 distinct Zerg melee units, each given its own role.BW Zergling has higher DPS with and without the upgrade then the SC2 Zergling. It is a DPS dealer with low hp, easily countered by AoE.BW Ultralisk is cheaper, faster, bit less tanky and with a fraction of a DPS that SC2 Ultralisk have. It is the main damage tank to the composition, but without great damage on its own.Both units synergize. Ultralisk won't be able to kill much, but will survive long. Zerglings will die quickly if not for the Ultralisk drawing fire to it, but will get most of the damage done when supported.In SC2, the roles are blurred. Zerglings don't have as much DPS. And Ultralisk is even tankier (understandable with the introduction of Marauder and Immortal), but also deals great amout of damage with its splash attack.This is the problem of Ultraling army. Ultralisk is too good on its own. Having 8 armor on Ultralisk is fine, if its splash and damage is lower. Take some DPS away from the unit, to make the 8 armor a bit more fair to Terran Bio.Proposition? Maybe all splash deals 5 damage +1 for each attack upgrade, instead of 33% of main damage. And lower the damage from 35(+3) to 25(+3). Give us a tanky, but low DPS Ultralisk, and higher DPS Zergling instead (that is, if you increase duration/damage of the Psionic Storm, which you should, but more about it later).But whatever you do, don't make a unit that is both tanky, and great at killing stuff.Let's get back to Terran.Problem with Terran not transitioning out of Bio is, there is nothing worth transitioning to.There are too many things in LotV that only or mostly synergize with Bio.- Liberator is low rate of fire, high impact unit. It is bad at killing great amounts of weak units, but good at killing strong but few in number. It is the opposite of Terran Bio, and can be easily reactored out of one Starport. It kills Mutalisks and other air in seconds, while it also kills high armor units with ease. Therefore, it has a great synergy with Bio.- Widow Mine – same principle, low rate of fire, splash, high impact damage – it also covers the same thing as the Liberator, only not as effectively.- Hellbat is considered Biological, and can tank quite a lot of damage for the squishier Marines/Marauders.- Tanks are as mobile as Bio with the introduction of the Medivac pick up. The issue of Tank's low damage and inability to control space has not been addressed. Tank synergizes with the Bio. But Tank still sucks on its own or as a core part of a composition.All those units can work while supported by Bio. But take them all together, and try to make up a composition, and it will suck. Most of those units have low rate of fire, but high impact damage. They do not deal efficiently with large numbers of enemies (Hellbats don't count – their attack is very short ranged and even then, coupling them with Tanks or Mines will deal a lot of friendly fire to them – their mobility on the battlefield is also an issue). Even Widow Mines, which are quite good at dealing with Lings sometimes, are not reliable and take up a lot of supply if you want to set a mine field. The rate of fire is also terrible.Truth is Blizzard, until you give players a good base for an alternative composition, people are still going to play Bio supported by other units.This threads have been around since ancient times. And I will repeat again how to give us a core unit to base a composition around.Siege Tank:- Supply down to 2 from 3.- Cost down from 150/125 to 150/100.- Damage from 35+15 vs armored to 35+35 vs armored.- Cooldown from 2 to 3.- Overkill mechanic introduced (make Siege Tank's attack an invisible projectile or some other way).- Remove Medivac pick-up mechanic.Slowing the attack but making it stronger is more punishing to most units. It hits hard, creating psychologically the “no go zone” covered by Tanks. Tank hits can no longer be ignored, even a single one. Splash can be changed to go from 100% to 75%, 50% and 25% instead of the current 100% and straight to 50% and then 25%.Lowering supply allows players to leave Tanks in defensive positions, without such a severe impact on main army.Lowering the cost goes in line with lower supply and rate of fire.Medivac pick-up is removed as it breaks tanks identity (immobile zone control unit).Overkill is brought to encourage pushing out with Tanks instead of waiting till 200/200 supply is reached.Without a core unit there is no composition. Be it Collosus of old supported by Gateway, or Marine Marauder supported by other units, there has to be one unit that is good and needs support of other units to survive long enough to deal its damage.Other changes can incorporate making either Cyclone or the Thor to be a viable Factory based anti-air. I provided example of unit stats in my previous thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/legacy-of-the-void/497696-sc2-could-be-so-much-more-design-and-balance And even if the stats of units and polls on what people think about them don't move you, let me direct you to another great write up. Even as I read it only after writing and finishing my first thread, me and the author (Falling) share a lot of ideas and even the principle on what is Mech and what types of units it requires.Link to the thread about the Mech: http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/360325-in-defence-of-mech





Disruptor, PvP and PvX:

but we are currently thinking if it’ll be better if Disruptors 2-shot majority of the Protoss ground units that they currently 1-shot.

Well, no shit Sherlock. Ok, I don't want to come out as disrespectful. I didn't touch the Disruptor in my earlier thread, the reason for it being my lack of knowledge about the unit (haven't seen it in action enough during beta) and lack of time to think how the unit can interact in game environment.



This time, however, I would like to touch the subject.

First of all, Disruptor one-shots most ground units. There is no usual circle of splash damage distribution – as in, unit in the center takes 100% damage. Units further away suffer 75% (or 50%), then 50% even further, then finally 25%.

The Disruptor ball of energy is fast moving. If there is couple of them, it is almost impossible to split your army perfectly, and no matter how far the unit is away from the center of explosion, it is going to die.



This is the reason why players are afraid of engaging in PvP (and not only PvP, but ZvP and TvP as well). As most players in lower leagues are not pro's, they cannot split effectively, and their units die horribly.

And even pro player has to be on top of his splitting, as a smallest mistake ends up with the death of a unit, instead of it taking 25% of damage and surviving.

In most cases, the risk [unit(s) getting killed] is not worth the reward (engaging the enemy). It is easier and more reliable to just pull back.



The way to fix Disruptor is not to scale its damage down (I think Protoss support units should be by design heavy hitting, to synergize with Gateway units), but to make its damage work like Tanks form of splash. Proposition:

( 1 2 3 4 4 3 2 1 )

where ( and ) represent the outer rims of Disruptor's Purification Nova.

- From 1 to outer rim, units suffer 25% damage

- From 1 to 2, units suffer 50% damage

- From 2 to 3, units suffer 75% damage

- From 4 to 4, units suffer full 100% damage

There you go, Disruptor fixed. Players will learn that even if they don't micro and split perfectly, as long as they do a decent job, their units will survive (damage depending on how good you are).



This also helps player to show off their skill – right now, even a small error results in unit dying. With changes like the one above, the better you are, the less damage your unit will suffer.



While we are at it, allowing the ball to be canceled by sniping the Disruptor it is an interesting add-on, adding both to viewership and gameplay. I love the risk/reward of this mechanic.

However, cancelling it by Abducting the Disruptor should not happen. It is way too easy to perform.

On the other hand, stopping the movement of the energy ball if Disruptor is Neural Parasited or Abducted could be interesting. Doing this and sniping Disruptor at the same time, or just doing it early to prevent the ball from reaching your units requires a lot of APM and such interactions (APM and timing based) should be rewarded.





The last issue of Disruptor is that it is not noob friendly. You cannot just attack move it and expect it to deal any sort of damage without micro. Add a switchable autocast to it:

The energy Nova would follow the first unit in range.

Simple, has no impact on higher level, as anyone above Diamond would want to control the ball manually. But give low level Protoss some form of help. Well, no shit Sherlock. Ok, I don't want to come out as disrespectful. I didn't touch the Disruptor in my earlier thread, the reason for it being my lack of knowledge about the unit (haven't seen it in action enough during beta) and lack of time to think how the unit can interact in game environment.This time, however, I would like to touch the subject.First of all, Disruptor one-shots most ground units. There is no usual circle of splash damage distribution – as in, unit in the center takes 100% damage. Units further away suffer 75% (or 50%), then 50% even further, then finally 25%.The Disruptor ball of energy is fast moving. If there is couple of them, it is almost impossible to split your army perfectly, and no matter how far the unit is away from the center of explosion, it is going to die.This is the reason why players are afraid of engaging in PvP (and not only PvP, but ZvP and TvP as well). As most players in lower leagues are not pro's, they cannot split effectively, and their units die horribly.And even pro player has to be on top of his splitting, as a smallest mistake ends up with the death of a unit, instead of it taking 25% of damage and surviving.In most cases, the risk [unit(s) getting killed] is not worth the reward (engaging the enemy). It is easier and more reliable to just pull back.The way to fix Disruptor is not to scale its damage down (I think Protoss support units should be by design heavy hitting, to synergize with Gateway units), but to make its damage work like Tanks form of splash. Proposition:( 1 2 3 4 4 3 2 1 )where ( and ) represent the outer rims of Disruptor's Purification Nova.- From 1 to outer rim, units suffer 25% damage- From 1 to 2, units suffer 50% damage- From 2 to 3, units suffer 75% damage- From 4 to 4, units suffer full 100% damageThere you go, Disruptor fixed. Players will learn that even if they don't micro and split perfectly, as long as they do a decent job, their units will survive (damage depending on how good you are).This also helps player to show off their skill – right now, even a small error results in unit dying. With changes like the one above, the better you are, the less damage your unit will suffer.While we are at it, allowing the ball to be canceled by sniping the Disruptor it is an interesting add-on, adding both to viewership and gameplay. I love the risk/reward of this mechanic.However, cancelling it by Abducting the Disruptor should not happen. It is way too easy to perform.On the other hand, stopping the movement of the energy ball if Disruptor is Neural Parasited or Abducted could be interesting. Doing this and sniping Disruptor at the same time, or just doing it early to prevent the ball from reaching your units requires a lot of APM and such interactions (APM and timing based) should be rewarded.The last issue of Disruptor is that it is not noob friendly. You cannot just attack move it and expect it to deal any sort of damage without micro. Add a switchable autocast to it:The energy Nova would follow the first unit in range.Simple, has no impact on higher level, as anyone above Diamond would want to control the ball manually. But give low level Protoss some form of help.





Battle Cruiser:

There is one small buff to the unit that can be explored instead of giving it teleport like ability and moving Starcraft more in the direction of a MOBA game.

Currently, the BC has high rate of fire and low damage. Unfortunately, it means that any time you want to micro your Batte Cruisers, they stop firing, losing their DPS.



Make BC's fire slower, much slower, but give them also higher damage to compensate, while keeping the same DPS. It serves two purposes:

- It gives you the ability to micro away or forward while attacking at the same time.

- It makes BC's better against armored targets. Especially with the recent 8 armor Ultralisk, the BC does pathetic damage against them.



Please Blizzard, consider changing the way BC attacks, and people will have the incentive to actually use them.





Carrier:

Since the introduction of Release Interceptors ability, Carriers have had a big impact on the game in the beta. First, they were so OP that all Tosses were doing was turtling on 3 base to get them. Then, HP and build time nerfs came.



The problem of the unit was its burst power. Carrier is strong, almost OP, but making it harder to get doesn't change the fact that if, by some miracle, someone got to get them, they are still OP.

Changing the build time haven't done anything to balance the unit. It just made the unit so much more risky to go for.



How to rebalance Carrier, so it is a viable strategy to go for them, but they are not OP?

- First, remove Release Interceptors ability.

It is stupidly strong, as you can release it over opponents base and retreat, while the opponent has to react and save his workers/tech buildings, but at the same time, even if he defends quickly enough he has no opportunity to deal damage to Carriers themselves – they are already gone. This in itself is a stupid and unfair mechanic, just as released Interceptor's not getting destroyed if the Carrier is destroyed.



- Instead, increase Interceptor's damage from 2x5 to 2x6.



- Also, keep the reduced build time on Carriers (from 86 to 65), but also make them start with 2 Interceptors instead of 4.



Increasing Interceptor damage from 2x5 to 2x6 is a buff that is much needed in SC2 where there are more armored units. It should also be enough to put it instead of Release Interceptors.



Reducing build time makes them come out of the Stargates faster. At the same time, starting with 2 Interceptors instead of 4 increases indirectly their cost, but also reduces their power early.



Starting with only 2 Interceptors allows you keep the best of both worlds and keep the build time reduced. Carrier build time + building 2 Interceptors functions almost as increased build time with 4 Interceptor start. However, getting them earlier while having to build Interceptors makes it so that Protoss has some form of protection, however weak (half the damage but sooner).



Also, increasing Interceptors range from 2 to 3 makes Carriers more microable. It also avoids Interceptor clumping and dying to AoE.



And finally, you have already fixed an aspect of Carrier micro. Fix the rest, like Interceptors not coming back to the Carrier as long as it is moving – give us a choice between leaving Interceptors behind to die and deal damage, but saving the Carrier, and risking the Carriers themselves in order to overpower the enemy Interceptors being rebuilt. Give us the rest of Carrier micro!

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft-2-hots/369313-carrier-micro

Since the introduction of Release Interceptors ability, Carriers have had a big impact on the game in the beta. First, they were so OP that all Tosses were doing was turtling on 3 base to get them. Then, HP and build time nerfs came.The problem of the unit was its burst power. Carrier is strong, almost OP, but making it harder to get doesn't change the fact that if, by some miracle, someone got to get them, they are still OP.Changing the build time haven't done anything to balance the unit. It just made the unit so much more risky to go for.How to rebalance Carrier, so it is a viable strategy to go for them, but they are not OP?- First, remove Release Interceptors ability.It is stupidly strong, as you can release it over opponents base and retreat, while the opponent has to react and save his workers/tech buildings, but at the same time, even if he defends quickly enough he has no opportunity to deal damage to Carriers themselves – they are already gone. This in itself is a stupid and unfair mechanic, just as released Interceptor's not getting destroyed if the Carrier is destroyed.- Instead, increase Interceptor's damage from 2x5 to 2x6.- Also, keep the reduced build time on Carriers (from 86 to 65), but also make them start with 2 Interceptors instead of 4.Increasing Interceptor damage from 2x5 to 2x6 is a buff that is much needed in SC2 where there are more armored units. It should also be enough to put it instead of Release Interceptors.Reducing build time makes them come out of the Stargates faster. At the same time, starting with 2 Interceptors instead of 4 increases indirectly their cost, but also reduces their power early.Starting with only 2 Interceptors allows you keep the best of both worlds and keep the build time reduced. Carrier build time + building 2 Interceptors functions almost as increased build time with 4 Interceptor start. However, getting them earlier while having to build Interceptors makes it so that Protoss has some form of protection, however weak (half the damage but sooner).Also, increasing Interceptors range from 2 to 3 makes Carriers more microable. It also avoids Interceptor clumping and dying to AoE.And finally, you have already fixed an aspect of Carrier micro. Fix the rest, like Interceptors not coming back to the Carrier as long as it is moving – give us a choice between leaving Interceptors behind to die and deal damage, but saving the Carrier, and risking the Carriers themselves in order to overpower the enemy Interceptors being rebuilt. Give us the rest of Carrier micro!





Adept and TvP:

There is no reason to make Adepts armored. You have to realize that if you do that, the Marauder will be a counter to ALL Gateway units. Stalkers, Adepts, and also Zealots once Concussive Shells connect. There is a way of nerfing the Adept in TvP without affecting other match-ups, where Adept is not as problematic.



Increase SCV's life from 45 to 47 or 48. This change will make Adepts 3-shot SCV's instead of 2-shotting them. This, combined with overkill of projectile based weapons, will increase their survivability a bit more then 50%.

This change does not affect Oracles, Hellions, Banshees or Zealots. It slightly affects Zerglings, the only harass unit I can think of using (Mutalisks are not viable anyway due to Liberators).



Other ways of nerfing Adepts based all-ins without taking away their mid and late game strength, is to nerf not the Adept, but the Warp Prism.

- Reduce the pick up range from 7 down to 3.



Warp Prism is the only transport unit that can save other units from afar. It creates an unhealthy relationship, where Protoss player puts neither Adepts or the Warp Prism in any kind of risk.

Damaged Adepts can be saved from long range. Warp Prism is also protected by Adepts in front. There isn't a lot of counter micro that Terran can do. This should be looked into.



There are also voices speaking about nerfing the Shade ability, either by making units block the Shade, or taking away the option to cancel the Shade.

My personal choice would be to make the cancel of Shade come with a price – when cancelled, Adept loses its shields.



There is loads of potential options of making Adept-Prism all-ins weaker. Not only by directly nerfing the Adept, which might have a big impact on Adept's role in the mid to late game.

And if you do nerf Adept... Why not consider an upgrade at Dark Shrine, permanently cloaking it, like a DT? It fits the theme of a race. Since SC1, be it DT, Arbiter or Mothership, permanent cloak is something that fits the Protoss.





The Thor and misunderstanding of what the Mech is:

We are looking at ways to get a little more mech play in Terran matchups. Our first attempt at this will be to buff one of the more underused units. While this is effectively a double-damage buff against armored air units, we were noticing in our internal playtests that it doesn’t feel super overpowered.

That the unit comes out of factory doesn't automatically makes it a Mech unit. Mechanical, transformer-like is not Mech. Mech is a composition and a playstyle based around very immobile but cost and supply efficient, long rage units, capable of zoning part of the map even against stronger force. I gave the link to the much better write-up in my previous point on Ultralisk and forcing players to transition out of Bio.



Having said that, buffing Thor's damage to flat 12 is just a bad change. Your internal tests are not the highest quality if you think this change is good for the game. Thor deals its damage 4 times. Having Thor deal 4x12 damage to armored units mean that:

- Corruptors are 5 shotted.

- Medivacs are 4 shotted.

This two units and the Thor have their interaction changed dramatically.



First of all, Corruptors are a neccessity in LotV, as Mutalisks are not worth the effort unless Terran forgets about Liberators, which are easy to mass thanks to being Reactorable. Liberators in high numbers already make a mess out of Corruptors, and with potential of incoming PB nerf, Terran doesn't need yet another unit to make Zerg air unusable.



Second, Medivacs being 4 shot will make Bio unusable in TvT. Medivacs clump when following M&M. After Medivacs die to Thor(s), Bio will die as well. This will swing TvT into full on Factory/Starport wars. You are going to kill diversity with this change.



Also, Thor's and Liberator's role in countering clumped air will overlap even more.

Instead of buffing Thor's attack vs armored, why not simply buff Thor's health or give it one extra armor, or completely redesign its attack and make it single target, high damage, 10-11 range shot to deal with capital ships, instead of an AoE. That the unit comes out of factory doesn't automatically makes it a Mech unit. Mechanical, transformer-like is not Mech. Mech is a composition and a playstyle based around very immobile but cost and supply efficient, long rage units, capable of zoning part of the map even against stronger force. I gave the link to the much better write-up in my previous point on Ultralisk and forcing players to transition out of Bio.Having said that, buffing Thor's damage to flat 12 is just a bad change. Your internal tests are not the highest quality if you think this change is good for the game. Thor deals its damage 4 times. Having Thor deal 4x12 damage to armored units mean that:- Corruptors are 5 shotted.- Medivacs are 4 shotted.This two units and the Thor have their interaction changed dramatically.First of all, Corruptors are a neccessity in LotV, as Mutalisks are not worth the effort unless Terran forgets about Liberators, which are easy to mass thanks to being Reactorable. Liberators in high numbers already make a mess out of Corruptors, and with potential of incoming PB nerf, Terran doesn't need yet another unit to make Zerg air unusable.Second, Medivacs being 4 shot will make Bio unusable in TvT. Medivacs clump when following M&M. After Medivacs die to Thor(s), Bio will die as well. This will swing TvT into full on Factory/Starport wars. You are going to kill diversity with this change.Also, Thor's and Liberator's role in countering clumped air will overlap even more.Instead of buffing Thor's attack vs armored, why not simply buff Thor's health or give it one extra armor, or completely redesign its attack and make it single target, high damage, 10-11 range shot to deal with capital ships, instead of an AoE.





High Templar, Gateway based PvX:

Ok, As we all know, from Brood War to SC2, HT and Psionic Storm has been downgraded.

The damage, the radius, and even energy upgrade is gone now.



And there is no reason for those downgrades.

Units clump more in SC2 then in BW, making them more susceptible to splash damage. However, units also move more fluidly and are able to escape Psionic Storm much easier. Without micro, Psionic Storm would be more devastating. At the same time, even with minimal micro, Storms deal much less damage to units.



Since I bought LotV and started playing, I have seen HT used in one game. One. In my 280 games, I've seen one player using HTs. This shows how bad they are (as of 30/12/15, there was another game in my career, which is still rare).

Protoss is already struggling in base defence and needs a broken mechanic to defend bases from drops etc. (MSC and Pylon Overcharge).

I propose changes to HT and Psionic Storm, to make Gateway based compositions interesting again:

- Storm damage changed from 80 damage over 2.85 second to 100 damage over 3.6 second (keeping damage over time almost exactly the same).



- Radius increased from 1.5 to 1.75.



- Khaydarin Amulet upgrade reintroduced.



The reason why Khaydarin Amulet upgrade can be reintroduced is, as warp-in time takes 5 seconds, HT is vulnerable to being sniped. You can no longer just warp HT in and Storm straight away – as it will simply get killed, even by workers.



Also, other spellcasters spawn with enough energy to use their basic spells after researching energy upgrades for them. However, in HT's case, not only you just need to wait before it gathers energy – during this time, there is nothing stopping the opponent from coming in with a task force of Mutalisks or other fast units, and killing HTs while they cannot do anything at all. Until they gather energy, they are dead weight and need extra protection.



This change, as well as small reductions on Gateway unit build time should pave way for getting rid of the MSC and the Pylon Overcharge, which is nothing more then a band-aid to a real problem: weak/slow production before Warp Gate.





Getting rid of the band-aid of Pylon Overcharge

Admit it. You broke Protoss. Then you added MSC and Photon/Pylon Overcharge to mask it.

It is a terrible design, as it defends expensive and sometimes maybe hard to execute attacks on Protoss for relatively low investment and next to no skill required. You have failed and anyone can see that. I'll help you fix it.



There are ways of making this mechanic less prevalent. You can nerf Pylon Overcharge damage from current 30 to 15 (and keeping rest of the stats like duration or energy cost), or maybe even remove it completely and experiment with following changes:

- Gateway unit production time decrease, so Protoss can match the unit count with larva injects and reactors. Still slower then the Warp Gate, but faster the what we have now. For example: Zealot and Adept takes 27 seconds to build, and 20 to warp in. Change it to 23 seconds to build. Stalker from 30 to 27 or 26 (23 warp in). DT/HT from 39 to 35 (32 warp in).



- Make entrances to natural expansions smaller, to help Protoss with Sim City, preventing mass ling runby's. Something to think about when you change the map pool again.



- Make air space around mains smaller, so a Photon Cannon can defend bases against drops better. Or even increase Photon Cannon range by 1 and increase its build time by 5 seconds to compensate.



- Make Psionic Storms more damaging and a bit longer lasting, keeping same damage over time.



- Bring back Khaydarin Amulet, so drops can be warded off even if you fail to prepare, as long as High Templar is not sniped while warping in.





Harass for all? Nope, you must all-in:

In LotV, some races are much better then the others in harassing.

Let's take for example the Protoss, we have:

Oracle that can end the game if not scouted.

DT's, which are more of an all-in then harass, but still.

Adepts which bypass defenses with ease.

Warp-Prism that can deploy any kind of unit for harass (DT, HT, Disruptor, Adept, Zealot)

Phoenix in some match ups.



And Terran?

Hellion/Hellbat

Widow Mine drop

Liberator

Banshee

Siege Tank drop



What do they have in common? That in most cases, the structures required for this kind of harass are going to be used for standard army anyway, and investment is not actually that high. Single Oracle is cheap but can kill a lot of workers. Widow Mine can prevent mining for a long time. Adepts can come in and kill workers/units paying for themselves. Cloaked Banshee can end the game if not scouted. Liberator can also prevent you from mining for a long period of time. At most, the investment is minimal. And even if harass can be prevented by the opponent, those units can still be easily saved and used in your main army.



However, in Zerg's case, there are no harass builds. Zerg is left with all-ins, that are easy to perform, which is the main reason why people call the Zerg overpowered.

Early pools, baneling busts, mass ling runby's, ling/roach elevating, nydus all-ins, ravager ling/roach all-ins – those are strategies that players use on ladder.



Zerg cannot build 1 or 2 Mutalisks and kill 10 workers with it. Nor can a Swarm Host used for the simple reason that the unit is pathetic.

Zerg harass exists only in form of baneling drops, that is it. Mutalisks have to be produced in large number, and even then, for a small deal of investment, Terran can deny any harass with 3 Liberators (which they build anyway as standard) and some Marines. Protoss can use MSC and Pylon Overcharge or Phoenixes which super hard counter Mutalisks.



There has to be a way for Zerg players to be able to harass and punish greedy openings of other races, without committing to easy to do, hard to defend all-in tactics.





First of all, Blizzard, bring back the Overlord Transport upgrade for all Overlords to Lair. Now, I'm not saying you need to remove your idea of Overlord morph into a transport. Just add the research to Lair, which allows all Overlords to be used as transports again – and when researched, morph will be unavailable to Overlords, as they will already be able to carry units. This is the first step in making harass play for Zerg possible.

To reduce the all-in factor of the early game elevators, maybe add another 25/25 price to the single Overlord morph. In other words, nerf it a bit.



Second, Nydus Network. It cannot be invulnerable, as it only promotes all-ins, without an actual risk or any difficulty. Instead, just reduce the cost of Nydus Network, and Nydus Worm. Give Zerg something that can be cheap, and hopefully help with base defense. Nydus Worm being used as an all-in tactic, when invulnerable, requires no skill. Using Overlords to drop units in and out requires micro and attention. It is harder to execute, but it also is more rewarding and more interesting to watch. But for that to happen, we NEED Overlord upgrade for all Overlords at Lair, just like the old times. Maybe decrease the cost and research time on it, as it has to be used in conjunction with Overlord Speed.

This way, you will give players a good, skill-oriented way of playing.



Another thing is, there has to be a unit that can be dropped and not only kill workers, but also deny mining. Once a Widow Mine is dropped, it will deny mining for as long as there is no detection. And it costs 75/25. Oracle will lay waste as long as there is not enough anti-air. Those are just some of the examples.

In case of the baneling, it cannot deny mining. It is a suicide unit.

The only other unit that can be used as a harass is the Lurker, but they are coming into play way too late.



The all-in nature of Zerg should be addressed. Zerg all-ins are too easy to perform, and inflate player ranks, which is the reason why there are is such a low representation of Zerg players in lower leagues, but over representation in the medium leagues (Gold, Platinum, Diamond).

In my next point, I would like to talk about the Lurker.





The Lurker:

Lurker is a strange beast. Strong in ZvP, strong in ZvZ if it ever goes past bane wars, but not so good in ZvT.

So far, we haven't had many pro games including the Lurker. There is a reason for it – it comes out too late to be usable. Lurkers are great for the game – they provide a zone control options for Zerg, which increases strategical choice available to players. It gives us some other way of playing the race, instead of macro and a-move or cheap all-ins. The Lurker is good, so said the lord.



But Lurker as of current state is not without flaws from balance prespective.

First of all, it takes to long to tech, and it is easy to deny it. What is the minimum time investment to get Lurkers?

- 18 Lurker morph time.

- 86 Lurker Den morph time.

- 29 Hydralisk Den build time.

- 57 Lair morph time.

= a whooping 190 seconds to get Lurker out, or 3 minutes and 10 seconds.

Do not forget, a Lurker Den can be sniped by a single Dropship, denying you further production of Lurkers for another 133 seconds, or 2 minutes 13 seconds. This is game ending, if you rely on them.



How to fix it? Make Lurker Den not a morph, but an upgrade. Same cost, but once researched, all Hydralisk Dens build afterwards are Lurker Dens by defaut.

Problem 1 solved.

Now, decrease Lurker Den research time from 86 to 46. In BW, if you wanted to go Lurkers, you build Hydralisk Den once Lair was morphing. You could get Lurker research finished in 75 seconds after Lair. Lowering it to 46 will allow us to get Lurkers in similar timing.



Lurker contains were interesting. It kept you on the edge of the seat, not knowing if Protoss will be able to break out and kill the Zerg before he takes advantage and expands everywhere.

We want them back.



Now, lets get back to the Lurker itself. It is too strong in ZvP once its out, but doesn't perform great in ZvT.

The reason why it is OP in ZvP is because of its ridiculous range of 9. 9 Range doesn't do much for ZvT, as Marines and Marauders get inside firing range in a second anyway. However, Stalkers, slow moving Zealots and Immortals just don't have this amazing mobility. They take extra shots before they are able to deal any damage to the Lurker. Lurkers 200 Hp doesn't help, as Stalkers and Zealots do not have the DPS to take Lurkers out quickly. In case of Bio, the opposite is true, as Lurkers die quickly to Marauders and even Marines, and besides, Medivac can always lift up and drop the forces where there are no Lurkers, completely bypassing them.



At the same time, Lurkers are terrible in base defense because of their supply cost. Leaving 1 Lurker to defend is not enough, as Medivac can easily outheal any damage it is doing. You need at least 2 to defend a base against Terran drop. That's 6 supply.



To sum it up, the issues are:

weak defense because of high supply cost.

too strong in ZvP because of its range and high HP.

inability to counter Bio.



There are simple ways of fixing it. Let me present you with an actual Lurker, that Zerg players asked for since WoL:

- 140 HP down from 200.

- 20% movement speed increase.

- 7 range down from 9.

- 2 supply cost down from 3.

- 28(+3) damage up from 20(+2) + 10(+1) vs armored.



Hp and range reduction helps making ZvP fair.



Movement speed increase makes it better at engaging the enemy, leading to more action, which is always a good thing.

Supply cost reduction makes it better at defending.



28 damage instead of 20+10 armored helps it against Bio (Marines die in 2 shots instead of 3, which is a big deal), has a minimum impact on ZvP (Zealots are shred to pieces anyway as they need to get into melee range, only Adepts are slightly affected, both going down in 6 shots instead of 8), and a minimum impact of ZvZ (Lings and Banelings still die in 2 shots, only Hydralisks die in 3 instead of 4.



This version of Lurker, including changes to Lurker Den, would even suit your flawed agenda (sarcasm) of...





Worker harassment, micro:

When trying out this change, we determined that reducing the workers needed per base isn’t good for the game because many of the coolest moments in StarCraft II come from worker harassment. With fewer workers, it was just too easy to rebuild after taking economic damage, making these moments less meaningful.

I agree with you. And I bet most of the community will agree with me. Worker harassment is in fact cool. The premise is sound, but again, the execution is poor.

This is what I consider a cool worker harassment/harassment in general:







This is what I don't:





I also tried to find some cool Mutalisk harassment moment on Youtube. Couldn't find any.



You know what the difference is between those two comparisons?

One requires not only to macro behind it, but also to micro you harass units.

Give an average player those Vultures and he will lose them to Zerglings.

Give him a Reaver, and he won't be able to kill more then one Tank.

Give him Mutalisks, and he won't kill more then 10 SCVs or Marines without losing them all.

Not to mention macro behind it.



Give me the Oracle and I will do the exact same thing as in the video.

Give me those Hellbats and I will micro the Dropship as in the video.

I most likely won't be able to macro behind it like the players shown. But the micro part required to perform those worker kills is on a 10-12 year old Silver or even Bronze level.



Micro is not adding another ability to the unit and making players press the button every 5-10 seconds to micro. Micro is an constant action of unit movement, mouse clicking, precision, and timing. It is giving us a unit that performs its basic role with minimal effort (so not like current Disruptor), but can do amazing things in good hands.



Giving Mutalisks fast regeneration is not micro.

Giving Medivacs a boost ability is not micro.

Giving us units that kills entire mineral line with no control in 5 seconds, is again, not micro.



There are things about the game engine that prevent this kind of micro, like moving shot. It should be in the game since day 1. Since the beta of WoL.

The one we got is clunky and has a low skill ceiling. It is also less exciting to the viewers.



You had 5 years to get this shit together, + however long have SC2 been in development. You failed hard to recreate the micro potential of units in the successor to the game which started it all.



There is more fun in controlling the unit to the best of your ability, and not in mindlessly activating a spell like Guardian Shield or Immortal's Barrier of old.

Recently, a couple of Korean pro's retired. Guess which game are they streaming or talking about, and having more fun with? Hint: It's not SC2. I agree with you. And I bet most of the community will agree with me. Worker harassment is in fact cool. The premise is sound, but again, the execution is poor.This is what I consider a cool worker harassment/harassment in general:This is what I don't:I also tried to find some cool Mutalisk harassment moment on Youtube. Couldn't find any.You know what the difference is between those two comparisons?One requires not only to macro behind it, but also to micro you harass units.Give an average player those Vultures and he will lose them to Zerglings.Give him a Reaver, and he won't be able to kill more then one Tank.Give him Mutalisks, and he won't kill more then 10 SCVs or Marines without losing them all.Not to mention macro behind it.Give me the Oracle and I will do the exact same thing as in the video.Give me those Hellbats and I will micro the Dropship as in the video.I most likely won't be able to macro behind it like the players shown. But the micro part required to perform those worker kills is on a 10-12 year old Silver or even Bronze level.Micro is not adding another ability to the unit and making players press the button every 5-10 seconds to micro. Micro is an constant action of unit movement, mouse clicking, precision, and timing. It is giving us a unit that performs its basic role with minimal effort (so not like current Disruptor), but can do amazing things in good hands.Giving Mutalisks fast regeneration is not micro.Giving Medivacs a boost ability is not micro.Giving us units that kills entire mineral line with no control in 5 seconds, is again, not micro.There are things about the game engine that prevent this kind of micro, like moving shot. It should be in the game since day 1. Since the beta of WoL.The one we got is clunky and has a low skill ceiling. It is also less exciting to the viewers.You had 5 years to get this shit together, + however long have SC2 been in development. You failed hard to recreate the micro potential of units in the successor to the game which started it all.There is more fun in controlling the unit to the best of your ability, and not in mindlessly activating a spell like Guardian Shield or Immortal's Barrier of old.Recently, a couple of Korean pro's retired. Guess which game are they streaming or talking about, and having more fun with? Hint: It's not SC2.





The battle of Korhal – air domination:

Note that this is written from Zerg point of view. While keeping this in mind, don't disregard whatever I'm saying just because of it.



Liberator is a strange beast just like the Lurker. It is a 150/150 3 supply unit, that can be reactored (why on earth, is anyone's guess). It kills all air play in the mid game. It can harass in the early game. It is great for defending and sieging in the late game.

Is Liberator imbalanced then?

Yes and no.



It is just fine with the current Parasitic Bomb. But without it, there is no way for Zerg to contest the air.

Vikings counter Corruptors. Even Liberators in large numbers (8+) counter great numbers of Corruptors. Even if they didn't, Zerg would still be left with a flying supply, incapable of fighting the ground army, after the air battle is finished. Marines/Thors can also help Liberators in fight. And after the dust settles, Liberator can still attack ground.

You may say “don't Terran get there!”. This can be turned around to “don't let Zerg get to 8 armor Ultralisks or Vipers”.

This is a stupid counter argument, so lets stop using it. It's childlish.



Liberator nullifies Mutalisks completely. They counter them so hard it's not even funny. Corruptors are not that good either for their job, as they are slower, unable to prevent drop play, and overcommitting to it leaves you weak on the ground.



Phoenix openings in ZvP are also problematic. If Zerg doesn't choose to all-in with Ravagers, or Nydus, and decides to go for macro play, Phoenixes coupled with Pylon Overcharge can keep the Zerg unable to attack at all.

Queens and Hydralisks are easy pickings. 2 Spores will not save drones from dying to 6-8 Phoenixes killing 5-10 drones in one go.

Zerg has to commit a large amount of larva to build Spore Crawlers around his base, falling behind in economy. Anti-air is non-viable.

- Queens don't have enough dps.

- Spores don't have enough dps.

- Hydralisks can be countered by Phoenixes.

- Mutalisks are countered by Phoenixes.

- Corruptors are too slow to catch up and protect your bases.



What I propose, is a solution to those problems. Hear me out.

Nerf Parasitic Bomb as I said earlier. Make it non-stacking, or unable to finish off the units, or both. You can even increase the damage of the spell, as it will all be balanced around slower damage output, giving you much more time to micro and split your units.

Then, either increase Corruptor speed either to 5, or match it with Liberator's speed.

Or, increase it's armor by 1, to the total of 3, making them take 33% less damage from Phoenixes, and 20% less from Liberators.

Maybe even +1 armor, and +0.5 speed increase.



If not, give us Scourges back. There is an easy way of making them not a-move, but skill based unit – make their damage to be applied over period of 0.5 second (damage over time), allowing overkill to occur.





Creep dynamic:

There is this misconception, that creep spreading and creep clearing contributes to more action. It does in a way, but Terran scanning and killing one or two Creep Tumors can be called action no more then watching paint dry.

Creep prevents other races from engaging on it, therefore either you wait for detection, or wait till your force is big enough that extra speed of the Zerg units is no longer relevant.

Zerg on the other hand will hold back and wait for the enemy to get on the Creep to rip more benefits.

This waiting in both cases holds back the action instead of promoting it.



Creep being spread is already beneficial, as it provides vision and allow you to build structures on it.

What I believe would be a better solution, is to remove all speed bonuses for units on creep, apart from Queen and Crawlers. Instead, in case of the slowest/most affected units, just give them back some of the speed in their speed upgrades, or add to the base speed. Some examples I have in mind:

- Hydralisk: 3.15 off creep (+0.75 upgrade), 4.75 on creep. Changed to 3.3 off creep (+0.825 upgrade), 3.5 and 4.325 on creep (creep provides only +0.2 speed increase with and without upgrade).



- Zergling: 4.13 (+2.45 with upgrade) off creep and 5.37 (+3.18 with upgrade) on creep becomes 4.7 (+2.82 with upgrade) off creep and +0.2 on creep.



Is it too much balancing? I agree it is too late for that. But not if you thought about it and had this kind of mechanic since WoL beta.





Baneling/Marine and soft/hard counters:

Banelings suck from design perspective. But they are also amazing from design perspective, as it is a hard-counter to a unit that is its own hard-counter. This will be split into two sections. One about the baneling as a design, and second purerly from a counter system standpoint.



Problem with the Baneling is not that they are as good as you are. When it comes to higher levels of play, Banelings feel underpowered. However, in lower leagues they obliterate the Bio composition.

They are to easy to play effectively, but hard to play against if you lack the skill.

You, as a T, look away for a second, and your army is gone to an a-move.



They also have a low skill ceiling.

You, as a T, look and you have a moment of perfect micro and kill Zergs army with Banelings doing minimum damage – no amount of micro on the Zerg part is going to change anything.



With Banelings, it is just a numbers game – if there is enough banelings, they will kill all Marines even with great splits, and there is nothing a Terran player can do. If there isn't enough, they will die before reaching Bio ball and there is nothing that Zerg player can do to increase damage.

You either have enough of them, or not. No amount of fancy micro will make your banelings better past the ceirtain threshold.



Also, the design is just bad in itself. Lets say you move out as T and there is a ling bane ball. You attack, micro, kill all lings, kill all banelings because you micro'ed well and there wasn't many of them. Now there are no more banelings for you to worry. However, if you take bad engagement, you will kill all lings, but banelings will kill your army because of their numbers. But you know what? You don't have to worry about the banelings no more – they're all dead as well.



The only way for Zerg to win an army battle is to sacrifice an army, and then rebuild it – isn't that stupid, that Zerg are forced to use banelings because of the lack of alternatives? That even if Zerg has better macro, he has no units to attack with after a battle?

From this point of view, BW Lurker is far superior. You a-move like a dork and sacrifice you Marines to banelings – there are no more banelings for you to worry about.

You a-move like a dork and sacrifice your Marines to Lurkers – Lurkers are still there waiting for you.



My intent with this is not to highlight any kind of imbalance – but a design.





Now then, let's move on to the counter system.

- What is the counter to Marines? Banelings.

- What is the counter to Banelings? More Marines.



It seems stupid at first. But lets examine this closer – on the highest level of play, where both players are closely matched in both micro and macro, Baneling vs Marine is one of the best and easiest to understand example of micro in SC2.

Both units hard counter each other. And because of it, their interaction boils down to micro alone (although most of it depends on Terran micro).

Other hard counters in game are not as interesting – you really can't micro Zerglings well against Hellbats, for example. Fancy micro won't change the outcome, because Zerglings don't counter Hellbats.

Roaches with no control will die to Hellbats. However, with control they counter Hellbats hard. This is a soft-counter interaction, which is great to watch as it showcases micro of both parties.

Another example, from different game – Mutalisk and Scourge. Scourges hard counter Mutalisks, but Mutalisks with control hard counter Scourge. And guess what – again, it is interesting to watch.

And another one from BW: Hydralisk and High Templar. High Templar can decimate 12 Hydralisks with a single storm. But Hydralisks can pick off a High Templar from the Protoss ball. It creates interesting interaction.



It's not about hard-counter beating its hard-counter, it can be a soft-counter beating its soft-counter.

But those counter interactions are way more interesting, then one dimensional units of SC2. Most of the time, it is a hard-counter vs no counter.

Pheonix vs Mutalisk.

Roach vs Hellion

Adept vs Marine

Liberator vs Mutalisk

Void Ray vs Corruptor

Viper vs Liberator/Void Ray/Mutalisk/etc.

Immortal vs Tank

Marauder vs Stalker

Marauder vs Zealot

Maurader vs armored Adept

Oops, sorry, I went too far. But you get what I'm saying. There is not enough of interactions where both units counter each other, and it all boils down to who has got better control.

Instead, there is always one unit that counters the other one.





Fixing some spellcasters:

Ravens, Infestors – those are the units that have been nerfed into oblivion, and I haven't seen people using them.

Raven? I haven't seen one, not even for detection.

Infestors? Rarerly, but not much.



Here are some examples of fixing the Infestor:

- Fungal Growth no longer immobilizes units – instead, it slows down their movement by 50%.



- Fungal Growth no longer does damage over time – instead, it slows down rate of fire of enemy units by 20% (non-stackable ofc) or nullifies any attack speed upgrades.



- Fungal Growth duration increased from 3 seconds to 10.



- Fungal Growth projectile is 200% faster.



- Neural Parasite range down from 9 to 8. Can be casted while burrowed.



- Infested Terran off creep speed increased by 50%.



Now the explanation. The reason why FG is broken is purerly because of the immobilization effect. You nerfed it by making it a relatively slow moving projectile. However, this creates an situation that is bad fro the design perspective: you need a large amount of Infestors or energy to guarantee accurate hits with the ability. Casters should be strong in low numbers, not require high numbers to function.



High Templar in BW was scary. Now it is merely a shadow of former self. You can see now how Protoss has to rely on gimmicks and all-ins to win, as Gateway units are not strong enough on their own.

You done the same thing with Infestor – instead of tackling the issue, you masked it.



Making it more reliable by faster projectile and increasing duration means you need lower amounts of Infestors to be effective, and it prevents mass Infestor tactics because of lack of stacking. At the same time, slow instead of immobilization gives opposing player an ability to micro at all.



Change to Neural Parasite makes it actually usable (this is not necessary, but I think it could be good for the game). Since Collosus or Thor cannot be controlled, it is only fair to give the ability some use. Imagine parasiting Observers and other units in ZvP to wear down Protoss army, without actual engagement. Harassing the Deathball, available for the first time in LotV.

Infested Terrans speed increase is only a small buff to otherwise a bad unit.

More detailed and in-depth explanation is in my previous thread, along with a poll for everyone to see. Link in the Introduction section.

Yes, we want Fungal to work just like Ensnare from BW, or at least making FG slow, instead of immobilize.



Raven:

It has been nerfed too severely.

- First of all, the Seeker Missile should not be cancelled if the unit leaves the range – this one, simple change will make Ravens actually contribute to something.



- Another thing is, Raven is a very fragile unit for its cost. Increasing it's speed by 20% and giving it extra 30-40 Hp would do wonders.



- Seeker Missile should also cost less. Reduction from 125 to 100 would be a good start.

Go on Blizzard. Fix those two casters. It is simple. Introduction: + Show Spoiler + Parasitic Bomb: + Show Spoiler + 8 Armor Ultralisk and forcing Terran to move on from Bio: + Show Spoiler + Disruptor, PvP and PvX: + Show Spoiler + Battle Cruiser: + Show Spoiler + Carrier: + Show Spoiler + Adept and TvP: + Show Spoiler + The Thor and misunderstanding of what the Mech is: + Show Spoiler + High Templar, Gateway based PvX: + Show Spoiler + Getting rid of the band-aid of Pylon Overcharge + Show Spoiler + Harass for all? Nope, you must all-in: + Show Spoiler + The Lurker: + Show Spoiler + Worker harassment, micro: + Show Spoiler + The battle of Korhal – air domination: + Show Spoiler + Creep dynamic: + Show Spoiler + Baneling/Marine and soft/hard counters: + Show Spoiler + Fixing some spellcasters: + Show Spoiler +