(Last Updated On: January 17, 2018)

So, I was giving a brewery tour for Austin Brewery Tours of the North Austin breweries: 4th tap, Oskar Blues, and Adelbert’s, and I drove by the Celis Brewery for the first time since it had opened. I decided to make a quick stop in at Celis to introduce myself, while my guests were still enjoying their Oskar Blues beers. I am so glad I did. While there, I was introduced to Teresa, the taproom manager at Celis. She was gracious in receiving me and welcomed my future tours at Celis. I mentioned to her that I would like to interview Christine Celis for the Beer Blog. I hoped to have a more in depth, personal conversation with Christine. I envisioned a piece that shared more of her stories than the usual regurgitated story everyone writes on Celis Brewery. Teresa told me to email her, and she would forward it to Christine. Well, low and behold, one day later I get a phone call from Christine Celis. I was so excited I could barely contain myself. Christine Celis was calling me! She was really nice on the phone and agreed to meet me the next Monday at the Celis Brewery. The following are highlights from our exciting and informative conversation with her.

Shane Orr: “So, I don’t know how much we talked about this, but the reason we’re here today, we would like to talk more with you about stuff that hasn’t been covered in all the other articles. You know, everybody knows the story. Your dad revived Belgian Wit beer in 1965, brewed successfully for 20 years before his brewery tragically burned down. He was underinsured and lost everything. Sold the brand to Interbrew, that went bad. Moved to Austin. So, everybody knows that story. We’d like to shed new light on stories that may not be as well known. And, so I guess what I’d like to start with is: can you tell me anything you can about the thought process of how you arrived in Austin? I know you said the water. Did you research other places and this was the best for your needs? Or did somebody tell you about Austin? How did Celis Brewery end up in Austin originally?”

Christine Celis: “Well, at the time, when my dad had a brewery in Hoegaarden, and you know, his main importer was located in Austin, so, he would come here on a regular basis. And, then, occasionally, I would come with him too. And, so, he, you know, always, when he would travel, he would look around and talk to people and ask questions and so forth about: What do you like to drink? What do you know about Belgium? Do you like Belgian beer? This and that so, and, you know, when he came over here, his main broker or importer was also from Belgium. Actually, they were friends from before. And so, he said, you know, the water here is very similar to that in Hoegaarden. My dad even took samples with him, got them analyzed, and then, you know, it was a clear comparison. Also, there was no brewery here in Austin, so, and actually, there was no craft brewery in Texas. Shiner’s a whole different animal. So, he wanted to be one of the first ones. And, many times people would ask him: why the hell would you want to go to Texas? You know, because Texas is still behind compared to New York and California and so forth. And, he’s like, why would I go where there’s already breweries? I mean, why add another one if you can be the first one here in Texas? And, it has all the right items: the water, no brewery, you know, young people. I mean, you got UT, you got St Ed’s. And, what do young people do? Well, they go out, they go party. So, and he also looked at you know, his goal was, if possible, to sell his beer brewed here back to Europe. And, going down to Houston, to the harbor, it’s not that far really comparitively. And so, all those reasons combined was why he wanted to settle over here. The first time though, when my dad and I talked about building a brewery in the U.S., we looked at St. Augustine, Florida. So, we went over there, and it was fine in the day time, you know, but in the evening, around seven or eight, it was dead. It was all older people, right? So, I was like, I’m not gonna start a brewery over here, you know. Because, what he wanted was the first Belgian brewery to arrive in one of the oldest cities in the U.S. It was then, you know, what are you going to do with a brewery at eight o’clock? Nothing, you know, so, that’s when he really looked in depth about moving to Austin. Because, at that time, Austin didn’t get a lot of tourism. It was all about Florida and New York and all of that. And, you know, if you make that big step from overseas to over here, you want to make sure that you’re going to be successful. So, yeah, I think he felt in the beginning, a little more comfortable with have more of a touristy place. But then, I think after really observing and talking to people, now he felt a little more comfortable over here. He really started digging into what is Austin and all, you know. But, still, when we moved to Texas, they had no idea about the difference between a beer and an ale, between a wit beer and a bock, and a trippel. And, they had no idea yet because they were not developed yet. Oh, I mean now here, people were not developed yet as to what craft beer is. You have a few of those beers the people that love craft beer would drink: a Hoegaarden, a Duvel, a Chimay, you know, but that was pretty much just a handful. But, it was all about a matter of time. The moment we got here we just educated them, and it was almost like the people were waiting for somebody, an ambassador, so to speak, to teach them about beer, you know. And, so, it seems like that was my dad’s role as well, not only brewing, but also being, playing that role model.”

SO: “It’s interesting that you brought up Shiner Bock. Did your coming up with Celis Pale Bock, was that basically a nod to us already being familar with, being fans of Shiner Bock?”

CC: “No, not at all actually. When my dad came out with the white, and then also, he wanted to come up with a pale ale because you also see a lot of pale ales in Belgium. So, you know, he came out with a pale ale, but you know, to get label approval, it didn’t work out because our alcohol was not high enough to consider it an ale. At that time it was the legal definition. Yeah, that’s now gone, but at that time, it wasn’t. So, the TABC said, well, you’re, you can’t call your beer a pale ale because it’s not high enough in alcohol. You have to call it a pale beer. Who calls himself a pale beer? Oh, I’m doing my pale beer here. So, that’s when my dad said, well you know, let’s call it a pale bock. It has, you know, pretty much the same alcohol. It has the same color. You know, it has a little bite at the end, it’s still dry enough, it still has a little caramel malt. And, people are already familiar with Shiner Bock. So, maybe it’s not going to be as difficult for them to understand what is a pale bock for example. That’s how it really happened. It really had nothing to do with, oh, well, we are going to compete with Shiner Bock. It was more like, first of all, we couldn’t call it what we wanted, and secondly, the people here in Texas, they were more familiar with Shiner Bock or with a bock beer. That, more than anything else was really the reason.”

James Dean: “So, do you remember any of the specific people that came around(when you were building the original Celis Brewery)? Are these people still around today?”

CC: “From Brewers? Brad(Farbstein) from Real Ale and Tim(Schwartz), and then Brock(Wagner from St. Arnold) came out a lot. And a lot…Live Oak…Chip, yes, Chip(McElroy). He came out too. We still have a bunch of pictures, you know, with his long hair. Oh, it was so cool!”

JD: “Ok, so, this is part of the original equipment(points to the copper kettle from the original Celis Brewery), and you guys have more of this equipment around? Where is that at right now?”

CC: “Well, so, this one actually was at the original Celis Brewery. So, my dad had two other vessels, you know. It was a three vessel brewhouse that was shipped from a brewery that went bankrupt during WWII. It was just sitting there collecting dust so my dad bought it and shipped it over here, and it was built at the Celis Brewery. I’ll show you a picture over there. But what I did is, my dad, you know, when he started brewing in 1965, he was brewing at his farmhouse. And, that’s the old equipment, with the open mash tun. And, then, there, he had two forty-five hectolitre boiling vessels and a hot liquor tank. He had a cool ship. He had some really old equipment. When my mom, you know my mom is still alive, my dad passed away in 2011, so, my mom is now eighty-six, so, last year she said, well, I’m getting old. I don’t need all those stairs, and you know, it’s just too big of a house to maintain. Let’s sell the house. I’m like, nooooo, we’re not going to resell my house. I was born and raised here, noooo! Well, then, I’m thinking like, oh Christine, you’re so selfish now, you know, so let’s sell it, and so we did. We got mamma a little apartment that we ran for her, and so, she was happy. And then, I got all of the old equipment over, and that sits in that metal building right there that you see in the bigger building(points to the building beside the main brewhouse). That’s the old equipment. That’s the open mash tun and all of that. So, that’s where, I want to build this museum for him, but I want it to be a working museum. Right now, I’m calling it a museum because it’s got those two copper kettles from the late 1800’s. I’ve got the cool ship. I’ve got older equipment like you wouldn’t believe.”

SO: “So, Christine, is Celis White, have you tweaked the recipe? Or is it the original Hoegaarden recipe?”

CC: “That one is, my dad gave me his original recipe, so we brought over the original yeast strain.”

SO: “So is this as faithfull as you can be today to the original Hoegaarden recipe?”

CC: “We had to make some slight adjustments, you know, alter the malt bill for some of this equipment because this equipment is so much more efficient than brewing with all that old equipment. So, but I find that’s all the change they did. But you know it’s always about more malt.”

SO: “Do you have a vivid memory of what it tasted like, you know, you drank Hoegaarden your whole life?”

CC: “Well, in the beginning, my dad, in that brewery, because of the open fermentor, it was very inconsistent. Sometimes it was more tarter, sometimes it was flatter because he did bottle conditioning, you know. Here we do force carbonation, you know, line carbonation. So, it was very inconsistent, and people would tell that to my dad, like hey Pierre, ‘This time you made it a little too sour dude,’ you know, and so, but then, once he actually outgrew his farmhouse, his consistency was so much better. So, maybe, there was just a little more tartness to it, some slight tartness, but other than that it was pretty much the same.”

JD: “So, this is kind of a fun question for me. Historically, if you could drink with anyone in the world, who would that be, and what kind of beer would you bring to the table?”

CC: “That’s a tough question! There’s so, so, many people I would like to. I would probably do again, I mean I know him…Rob Tod from Allagash. And, I love their Curieux. I haven’t had that in years! And now that I’ve said that now I’m gonna be thinking about that. And like, shoot, I should’ve said that person! But yeah, then you’d all talk about beer. But maybe outside of beer? Hmmmh. You’ve got me there now. Maybe Matthew McConaughey? I think he would be a hoot, partying with, having beers. I think now that actually would be much more fun. To see what he thinks about beer. He’s a true Austinite too. He has a love for Austin, for Texas. He’s not pretentious, I mean he’s a huge star, and what an amazing actor, and he’s still very very humble. And I appreciate people like that. And so, I would probably say him.”

Christine Celis was interviewed at the Celis Brewery by Shane Orr and James Dean. Article written and transcribed by Shane Orr.