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The actor/singer and fiance of past guest Chemda talks about being a trans male (male but born into a female body) and despite his religious upbringing (his father is a minister) coming to embrace being transgender. Check out Lauren’s website at www.laurenhennessy.com and follow him on Twitter @LaurenHennessy.

Episode notes:



Check out Lauren's website at www.laurenhennessy.com and follow him on Twitter @LaurenHennessy.

To support the show by helping potential advertisers get to know you the listener better please take this short survey. Your email address will not be given out or sold to any 3rd party, it is only needed in the event you win a free raffle for a $100 Amazon gift card. www.podsurvey.com/mentalpod.

Episode Transcript:



Episode 181: Lauren Hennessy

Transcripts

PAUL: Welcome to Episode 181 with my guest Lauren Hennessy. I’m Paul Gilmartin. This is the Mental Illness Happy Hour. An hour or two of honesty about all the battles… I don’t know how long that episode is going to be today. I know it’s longer than an hour and I know it’s shorter than two hours. I don’t really give a shit. I’m going on two hours sleep. My eyes are not even open right now, that’s how tired I am. Yeah, this show is.., We, we talk about the stuff and the thing and go… whatever. I don’t care. I really don’t care. It’s kind of nice when you are so tired that you just don’t give a shit. Like right now I feel like I could, like I could be at a crosswalk and like give up halfway across it and just lay down on the dotted line knowing, ‘I’m not going to get hit. People stay on their side of the road. I’ll finish crossing when I, when I get the energy.’ Let’s get to some… I got an email and we’ll do a couple of surveys, and then we’ll kick this thing off. Now the negative voices in my head is going, ‘You haven’t told them about the website. You haven’t described what the show is, and what if somebody’s a first-time listener they’re not going to know?’ All right. I’m Paul Gilmartin. This is the Mental Illness Happy Hour. An hour or two of honesty about all of the battles in our heads from medically diagnosed conditions, past traumas and, sexual dysfunction to everyday compulsive negative thinking. This show is not meant to be a substitute for professional mental counseling; it’s not a doctor’s office; it’s more like a waiting room that doesn’t suck. Bing bang boom, zippety do dah! Website for the show is mentalpod.com. Go check out the forums, read a blog, donate, stare at the wall. Who gives a fuck! I hope not being annoying, but honestly there’s something that feels really good about just being honest when you are exhausted.

This is an email that I got from a lovely, lovely supporter of the show. Her name is Amy Buck and she has been emotionally and financially supporting the show for a number of years now and she is certainly had her ups and downs and she sent me an update. She writes, “I’ve been meaning to write you a very long update letter, not because you necessarily need an update from me, but because you and your show continue to be a major component of my life and I have hoped that show some of my journey may help others or just help you because I would not be where I am without you.” So sweet “Oh and I need to send you a picture of my rooster that is named after you.” She has a little farm and she named her rooster Pauly G. So now there is two cocks named Pauly G. Ding Dong! Somebody get the door. “But all of that will have to wait until I have more time and more coffee in me.” Oh, maybe she’s tired too. So she says “I’ve been suffering from serious depression symptoms for over three years and on and off for her entire life. I’m on Celexa and Wellbutrin, but still having significant issues with rumination, exhaustion, memory, in general life is blah, which sucks because there’s so many great things going on in my life right now. I’m also 50. My good friend suggested I see a Naturopath and do the saliva tests to test hormone levels and adrenals/cortisol. I also did a blood test for the Alzheimer genes because it runs in my family. Very long story short, I’m now on low levels of testosterone… testosterone, estrogen, and progesterone. My adrenals were totally fucked up and I’m on some natural remedies for that. After a week on the hormones I feel fucking amazing. If you haven’t thought about saliva testing, you might want to. It’s expensive because insurance doesn’t cover it, but with me it has change my life.” Thank you so much Amy and thank you for the continued support and all of those of you that are monthly donors or who ever have donated to the podcast.

This is Struggle In A Sentence filled out by once again, a teenage girl with a just… I tell you man, they’re, they’re like, they’re like savants with the Struggle In A Sentence. About her depression: “Dysthymia is like watching your life alone in the back row of a movie theater and your soda is flat and you don’t care what happens to the protagonist.” About her anxiety: ”If the awkward silence does not end, you will explode to fill it.” Snapshot from her life: “I’m assigned to vacuum the case in which we display food at the café where I work. When I go to do it, a coworker picks up the vacuum and starts doing my job. There’s a screeching sound in my brain like where metal gear scraping each other and the machine of the universe is all wrong because I’m not doing the task. I’m terrified I will yell or do something crazy because my brain is plunged headfirst into a rational panic. When I reclaim the vacuum I must get every last crumb to make up for the imbalance and restore harmony to this corner of the universe. Even when I do, I’m still afraid someone will notice my mini meltdown over a coworker attempting to help.” That’s so good, thank you for that. Ellie is her name.

This is filled out by Misery Hates Company and she’s in her twenties. About her anxiety: “I feel like I’m always standing in a massive open space and the glare of a thousand spotlights. Every eye is on me and I am wishing I could just cease to exist. I am dying from the heat, burning in the light, wishing for nothing but cooling darkness. Total silence and solitude, knowing I will never get it in life.” Wow, that is deep. That is deep and so descriptive. Thank you for that. Are you sure you’re not a teenager? About her struggle with fantasy: “I wish I had a different life in a different world. All I want is to just be somewhere else. I constantly read novels, watch movies, watch television shows, and play videogames. When doing this, I fantasize that I’m a character in these fictional worlds. I’m incapable of focusing on anything else. I know I will never have a real life, so I spend all my time in my own head. I do not feel like a real person. I am less than a ghost.” I think there’s so many of us that deeply, deeply relate to that. About living with Type I Diabetes she says, “I feel like I’m in, I am anchored to my apartment, to the refrigerator where I have to keep my insulin. I worry at all times about my blood sugar levels, which whether they are too high or too low, control me. They dictate where I can go, when, how far, whether I can eat or not, whether I can move or sleep or shower. I am locked into a tether strangled by a leash. I’m forever attached to an million ton boulder. I cannot move. I cannot escape.” About loneliness she writes, “I have constant loneliness. I am always alone. Even when other people are around I am alone. I always have been. I hate the sounds and scents of people and civilization. I feel lonely, but I cannot stand being around people, any people. All people make me anxious, angry, and sad. I am trapped in my own pathetic, empty life. I wish I could live on Gilligan’s Island, seriously.” I don’t think there’s a one of us that hasn’t fantasized about living on Gilligan’s Island. I used to fantasize about being in the Brady Bunch. It almost hurt to watch the Brady Bunch when I was a kid because it just seemed like, ‘Oh my god, that’s what I need!’ I think Gilligan's Island would be refreshing too because who doesn’t want everything made out of coconuts and string. That would be pretty sweet.

This is filled out by a woman who calls herself Mo. She's in her twenties. Snapshot from her life: “I'm sitting in the kitchen right now not doing the dishes. I just feel too tired physically to get up and do them, but my chest is tight and my anxiety is kicking in about not getting them done. I just want to go to bed feeling like a failure for not doing stupid dishes, except that I don't really. I already took a three-hour nap today and a three-hour nap yesterday. I slept fine at night so the naps are apathy and depression driven.” You know, I think apathy is depression driven and “laziness” is depression driven. The day I realized you know what? ‘Maybe I’m not lazy. Maybe I’m just uninspired and my depression’s got me in a headlock,’ Paul said from his bed.

Finally, this one is from Serafina. She’s in her twenties. The best ones I think are always about OCD. She writes about OCD: “If I think about it one more time, maybe it will go away.”

{INTRO}

PAUL: I’m here with Lauren Hennessey, who some of you have heard about from Chemda’s episode. You are her fiancé.

LAUREN: Yes.

PAUL: And… I suppose one of the reasons why wanted to talk to you is… You’re a trans-man and you were born female bodied.

LAUREN: Correct

PAUL: And… what… You still have a female body, but you are a… you’re male. Talk about the arc of your realizing that you had been into a body… that you were born into a body that didn’t feel right to you. That didn’t feel like it was who you really are inside.

LAUREN: Yeah, and also for your listeners, I… I’m not passing in anyway. I’m not even that androgynous. I probably look, if anything, like quote on a butchy day like a lesbian and the thing that a lot of people mistake is that sex and gender are the same, which, which makes sense that we would think that. And that’s what we’re taught and that’s the majority. For me, I always felt different as a kid growing up and I was always told that I had an old soul. “Lauren really has an old soul.” I always thought why I felt different or maybe it’s cause like I had to be friends with all gazillion kids at church because my dad was the pastor whether I liked them or not. For whatever reason I was forced to sit in the girls’ line at lunch. I felt so embarrassed by that. When I was around six years old… I always liked girls, like from a young age. I always liked girls, which has nothing to do with me really being trans--

PAUL: Nothing

LAUREN: My sexual preference to want to hump has always been women. I was a pretty sexual kid. I think some of us are more sexual than others by nature. I was…I was always, since my earliest memories attracted to women. So one day my auntie comes over to our house and she’s like… just devastated, crying, and going ballistic. She comes in… and lots of people come to my dad for counseling because, because he’s a minister, but also because he connects with people. He’s just good at that stuff. And so uh--

PAUL: He what?

LAUREN: He connects with people.

PAUL: Oh, connects.

LAUREN: Yeah, and he can empathize really, with anyone’s situation. He really gets down and dirty with people in that way. Kind of like you. So she comes over seeking counseling and you know my mom’s kind of like, “Okay Lauren, go into your room.” So I go in there and wait for my mom to come in and she does and I’m like “Who’s dying, what’s happening?” And she’s like “well… your cousin Craig. Your Auntie’s son is gay. He just told her he’s gay.” “What’s gay?” And she explains to me what it is and why we don’t believe that that’s right. And I ask if he’s going to hell and she’s like, “I hope not, but we can pray for him.” And I’m like, I said that is “kind of weird. I would never kiss a boy. Gross.” So it was…

PAUL: Is that because you were thinking of yourself as a boy at that point or were you putting yourself in his shoes and thinking ‘if I were a boy, I would never kiss a boy.’

LAUREN: No, because I am in my shoes would never kiss a boy. And I knew that my penis was going to grow in. Eventually. Because that’s what happens. And I was ready for that. Kind of, subconsciously. I wasn’t waiting expectantly. I just knew that that’s what happens.

PAUL: Had somebody told you that or is that was your fantasy that you would grow a penis.

LAUREN: I just figured because I knew that I was a boy. And I always felt it. And I couldn’t… I always felt it there and that’s why I knew it would grow in. I guess I didn’t really have words for it then. And it wasn’t really a thing for me, but now I can equate to Phantom Limb Syndrome. Where you know someone born without a limb, or loses a limb in an accident, or battle or whatever still feels pain or still reaches for things, has sensations and stuff like that. Because a synapsis in the brain is still there, kinda. So I always had that feeling. So I just knew. It wasn’t a question. About a year maybe or so later when I was around seven, I realized it wasn’t growing in and that I like girls and oh my god, I’m a girl and oh fuck, I’m going to hell kind of thing.

PAUL: Oh my god, what was that like?

LAUREN: Oh man, isolating and terrifying and I wanted to do God’s will or whatever I thought that was in my young mind. I felt like I could lose my parents if I kept feeling this way. I immediately started praying to God every day for him to take these feelings away from me. “I don’t choose to like girls. I don’t want too.” So I only felt like a boy because I didn’t look like the other boys. Otherwise, I just felt like a kid. I think, probably. But that issue didn’t really come into play as much until later because right now I was just focused on not going to hell. So whether I had become a nun or forced myself... I used to have these fake crushes on guys. “You know this guy is cool. He’s totally cute. I like him so much.” And that lasted until even after I went to college and I put myself… I went… Well… Am I babbling too much?

PAUL: Not at all.

LAUREN: This is such a rabbit hole.

PAUL: No, this is fascinating.

LAUREN: You asked me about the trajectory of me being trans, right? Okay.

PAUL: And we don’t have to… that doesn’t have to be the first thing because there’re other things in your life that I’m interested too. I’m interested in your emotional life as a kid, as a teen, as an adult. This is just--

LAUREN: This all forms it so it makes sense that we start with it.

PAUL: Yeah, and it’s just a part of who you are. It’s not the totality of a person.

LAUREN: Right.

PAUL: I think sometimes people outside of somebody they don’t understand their issues. They think that is the defining thing about that person.

LAUREN: Yeah that’s something that I’ve struggled with lately since “coming out” as transgender. I have talked about it a lot. It’s been the main topic of conversation. And you know, I am an actor trying to act as an actress to get roles and so that…

PAUL: Why do you say actress when you identify as male because people perceive you as that?

LAUREN: Well, because most of the roles I’m going for are female roles.

PAUL: I see

LAUREN: Unless… I did play a pre-transitioning transmercutio in an updated Romeo and Juliet-type show recently. Which was pretty cool, but… And I’ve played boys before, especially as a kid, but I do a lot of women’s roles and a lot of feminine roles if you… or a lot of not feminine roles, I play a lot of lesbians now. But I don’t know how much telling a casting person that you’re male is going to confused their view of you. They are not the most imaginative people in the world, admitttingly, I think most of them would say “We need a little help. Give us a bone. Throw us a bone.” There is the package I present in my career and there’s the package, or lack thereof, that is present in my everyday life.

PAUL: As you describe that, I think, wow, that is the one genuine time when it’s totally healthy to embrace that you are not like this person that you are playing because that’s what actors do.

LAUREN: Well yeah, I feel that actors should be models for the writing. Like a good model, they present themselves in a way that they don’t upstage the clothing, but they showcase the clothing no matter what they look like almost. It comes from a different place. And I think a really good actor showcases the story and the writing. Whether I’m playing something that is feminine or masculine or male or female, it doesn’t matter, it’s just where the writing should come off however you present it no matter what gender or sex you are. You should be able to… You know I’ve seen men play women that I forgot they were men after the first five minutes. Because they just did it. They didn’t put in any affectation to it or anything that was unnecessary. So it’s interesting, a lot of the reason I’ve decided not to transition is because of my career.

PAUL: You mean physically transition?

LAUREN: Physically, yeah.

PAUL: Which would mean--

LAUREN: The typical male looking body is because I’ve already kind of built this… Laurenhennessey.com sort of image and as a, as a chick or an actress or whatever I portray, I think I like that visual of me, but it does feel very outside of myself.

PAUL: What is it… like the idea of not having breasts and having a vagina turned into a penis. Is it that that would be something that you wouldn’t want or that you wouldn’t want to go through the procedures to achieve that?

LAUREN: Well the big reason is like I said career and where I already am and having to start all over although sometimes I do question that cause there are way less males in the industry. I’m like, well damn. Maybe I shouldn’t, but these are all things you can ask yourself. Maybe I should have a million lives? The procedure definitely, I don’t wanna. That’s a lot. That’s a lot to go through and umm--

PAUL: But there’s not a feeling you’d be more free and more who you are inside on the outside if you did that.

LAUREN: Oh there definitely is and I’m not sure whether that comes from… Well, you know I see myself differently in my head than I present. I do think I hate my… I’m more in my body many days. I’m trying to find a yin yang sort of relationship with it so that I don’t give myself cancer or something. I hate my breasts. They get in the way of my hugs. I can’t go to the pool with my shirt off. Like little things like that, which sucks for any chick too, I’m sure you know. But it uh… it doesn’t represent me correctly and so therefore I’m not seen and I think the most basic thing we all want is just to be seen for who we are. So… So… It misidentifies me and so that’s a huge thing, the presenting as “male” would give me, is just being seen. Waiting ‘til my girlfriend and I pass you on the street to look at her ass instead of shaking your head and saying, “Oh what a shame. I’m going to take your girlfriend from you” or something like that. Just every day little stuff that is taken for granted. Just being referred to by the right pronouns, that kind of thing. And also feeling more comfortable in my own skin. And I always think if I knew that was an option when I was growing up like as a pre-teen or a teen, I think I would have done it. I definitely would have pursued that. But I didn’t really know.

PAUL: When people refer to you with a female pronoun, do you… what do you feel or think? Clearly you think to yourself, that’s not who I am, but do you… is there an urge to correct them? Are there times where you let it go? Or do you just understand that well, I’m not dressing male so how could they know it’s... it’s… Well, how do you handle it?

LAUREN: Only as finding… I found out the word transgender about… maybe about five years ago. And so that has changed my life a lot and my relationship with myself, my body and my expectations of myself and others and what it means to be trans and what should I expect. And I don’t know. I really don’t know what I’m allowed to ask for. I don’t want people to feel super sensitive or careful around me or like, “oh shit, if I say the wrong thing.” People are like so sensitive, but at the same time I think it’s important that we recognize that there are men walking around that look like me and there are women that are walking around who look like you. And we’re straight or gay or bi, it doesn’t matter. It’s just for whatever reason, in the womb, we didn’t develop as that sex. And some of us have both sexes and we don’t know what the gender is until you tell us. And so why isn’t that… I don’t know… Why isn’t that applied to all sexes, but now that we are learning more about it, the conversation is opening up and we’re able talking about it and it’s huge.

PAUL: Was there a feeling of relief when you realized there was a name for your secret? What you felt?

LAUREN: Such a relief. I was like, ‘I’m not the only one. There’s other guys like me.’ Like this isn’t a mental disorder. Or at first, what actually really helped me to think about it as was a birth defect. I have a birth defect. I was born looking like chick. And I have titties and vagina and I have this phantom penis that I can’t get rid of and I can’t explain. Some days I’m really glad it’s there. Some days it’s really annoying because it’s just a reminder of what I’m lacking or what I’m missing.

PAUL: When you… pardon me if this is too graphic or too personal, but when you masturbate--

LAUREN: Try me.

PAUL: Do you picture yourself having a penis and that’s what you’re touching?

LAUREN: Yeah, always even as a kid just naturally I… You know, I would masturbate with my phantom limb or with what I had there. I just kind of mash it all together and just sort of--

PAUL: Picture it

LAUREN: … brought it back and forth. I always pictured it there. I’ve always had it there. I’ve tried to get rid of it just by concentrating real hard.

PAUL: Tried to get rid of what?

LAUREN: Yeah, the phantom feeling.

PAUL: I see.

LAUREN: And you know, I know that not all trans people have this. I’ve talked to some trans guys that do and I didn’t know. I thought I was the only one with that too.

PAUL: What did that feel like, when you heard that? That must have just been awesome.

LAUREN: I actually read it in a book. Actually the way I heard about it the word was from a book called Becoming A Visible Man by this dude Jamison Green. And it had other trans guys accounts in it and one dude was like, had an almost similar experience as me, like almost identical where his buddy taught him how to pee for when his penis grew in. My buddy taught me how to pee for when my penis grew in, you know. And that was like… it… it… it changed my whole world and understanding of people and myself and everything. I feel very affirmed… really relieved.

PAUL: Did you cry?

LAUREN: That word gave me a reason to exist. I’m sure I cried reading about that stuff. Even if not outwardly physically I was crying inside. I don’t always produce tears, but that doesn’t mean I’m not crying. You know what I’m saying.

PAUL: I just can’t imagine what a profound… I know what it’s like to have felt alone with some secret or feeling of brokenness and like, particularly when I first walked into a support group and heard people’s stories and went ‘Oh my god. It’s not just me!’ And, you know, the way I describe it is like I was just three-legged dog my whole life and I walked into a room full of three-legged dogs.

LAUREN: Yeah, that’s a great… that’s a great way of putting it.

PAUL: And it’s like my soul began to cry in many ways even if the tears didn’t come out, it was a catharsis. Like, like poison was leeching out.

LAUREN: Oh, yeah. Absolutely. There’s a reason for your existence. There’s… you’re seen for the first time.

PAUL: And you’re not a mistake.

LAUREN: No. Yeah, you’re not a mistake. There’s so many variations of people and so many endless--

PAUL: And so many don’t--

LAUREN: Outcomes.

PAUL: And so many don’t have a voice and are shamed to being beautifully different. Whether it’s internal or external. It’s one of the things I hope to accomplish with this podcast is to--

LAUREN: Check mark.

PAUL: Is for… for people to embrace what is unique about them instead of feeling cursed by it but if we never get out of our isolation we never get to experience the poison leeching out and to feel the pureness of who we really are and that we are special in a good way and fuck what people who don’t understand it say about us, but it’s so hard.

LAUREN: Definitely.

PAUL: It’s so hard.

LAUREN: It is hard, which is... Man, one of the things I deal with like, you know, there are the extremes as far as I’m concerned. You know as… You know I’m queer by… you know not by choice like I’m queer by like this... This makes me queer, I quess, you know what I mean? And I’m resentful about that a little bit because it’s like a box I didn’t get to put myself in.

PAUL: It’s funny, because I don’t think of you as queer. I think of you as straight.

LAUREN: Well, I am straight, but I’m queer by trans-ness. These are just my own judgments of myself.

PAUL: Oh I see, queer by not fitting into a box. Not queer by your choice--

LAUREN: Right.

PAUL: Not by in who you are attracted to.

LAUREN: Right, right. Yeah, exactly.

PAUL: Ok. I forget that queer can mean just not, anybody who’s not straight.

LAUREN: Right, that’s true and you know what queer can mean straight too. I think that queer is an umbrella that just encompasses everything. I’m just… in this we’re all a lot more alike than we realize. But I um totally forgot what I was going to say. I keep holding on to these things--

PAUL: Talking about realizing that you weren’t alone in what you were experiencing and realizing there was a name for it.

LAUREN: Oh yeah, you’re never alone. You’re never alone. Whatever you are experiencing there’s someone out there that is experiencing the same thing. That is the most healing thing and you should seek those people out. Seek out those forums and that information because that... If I knew… You know, the only time I had seen trans people was like on Jerry Springer… or when I… you know the word trans, I thought of the word transvestite or cross dresser or chicks with dicks or whatever the media images kind of popped up in my head. I was definitely turned off by it and plus I was coming from… Oh this is what I was saying…. Both sides of the fence. I was coming from a kind of conservative Christian upbringing. I mean, laid back and my dad is so open minded... I mean we really are on the same page now, you know, in a lot of ways. But I was brought up in the church and I understand wanting to do the right thing when it comes to that and I understand wanting to help people and where, you know, the fear of your friends and loved ones being queer comes from. Like I understand where that comes from.

PAUL: Kind of a certain protection of “we don’t want you to experience pain.”

LAUREN: And we want you live forever and we want to see you after this life and it goes so deep. And I really stems from a fear of death at its root, but we want you to be okay and this is not good. I understand that because I was a part of that. I would say things like that even though I was feeling that myself. Being on the other side of that I see how--

PAUL: Like you would say, “Oh it’s too bad that gay person is going to hell.” Is that what you mean?

LAUREN: Well I wouldn’t say that, but I would, I would feel bad if my friend… If I found out that my friend was gay.

PAUL: I see.

LAUREN: Even though I knew that I liked girls, you know, but--

PAUL: Not because of what they were experiencing, but because of what--

LAUREN: I didn’t want them to go to hell.

PAUL: Yeah… How long… When did that idea leave you?

LAUREN: Well, I enrolled… Okay, so I went to Nyack Christian College my first year of college, which is north of the city of Manhattan. North of Manhattan about 45 to an hour. Close enough to the city I could still get in on the weekends, but far enough away my parents felt okay with it. They accepted me late because my other schools didn’t accept me this time around.

PAUL: Where were you raised? Where did your parents live?

LAUREN: Hawaii. I was raised in Maui, in Hawaii.

PAUL: Oh wow.

LAUREN: Only white kid. That’s a whole other set of mental--

PAUL: Did you get your ass beat?

LAREN: Mentally.

PAUL: They don’t beat on girls the way they do guys for being white?

LAUREN: Um, nah, they were pretty equal opportunity when it came to that, but I think I was a visual representation of every white person that came and raped and pillaged their land, you know? Kids are just cruel so I was the different one, in a very local school. Many of whom are my friends today, but back then, you know, it was rough. So I didn’t… I was very isolated even then. I really didn’t have many friends at all for years.

PAUL: Were your parents a part of that tradition of missionaries coming in and kind of--

LAUREN: No, no, actually the, the crappy recession of the early 90’s kind of sent them over there. So I grew up there, moved there when I was real young.

PAUL: Okay.

LAUREN: Yeah, but I was actually born here in Southern California.

PAUL: Oh!

LAUREN: Yeah, Anaheim.

PAUL: So ah, you’re going to Nyack. You’re coming to New York City.

LAUREN: Going to Nyack, um, was also looking forward to working on this issue I have of liking girls and, you know, one night was kind of crying in this worship service. I liked to go there because it was dark and the music was nice and the chaplain came up to me and asked me why was crying if they were happy tears or sad tears. And I’m like, they’re happy tears. Nope, they’re not. They’re sad. And she asked me what was going on and it was the first time I ever told anyone that I liked women and I couldn’t help it and I didn’t know what to do and I needed help. And she told me that I wasn’t alone and that there was a group at that school that met once a week that dealt with these same issues that I could meet with. And so I did. I went to this group correctional… homosexual correctional, ex-gay type of therapy thing once a week and went to also taught by this bull dyke woman. And it was me and a bunch other dudes, you know, which that was cool. And also one-on-one ex-gay therapy and it kind of started to work. I stopped feeling attracted to anything, you know, after a while.

PAUL: She shut your sexuality down.

LAUREN: Basically, yeah and then I met my first girlfriend and lied to them for the remainder of the semester until I was out of there. And I struggled. I was dating this girl. I fell in love with her and I struggled a lot with it because I still thought it was bad. I still, you know, was dealing with these issues of trans-ness that I couldn’t identify cause I didn’t have a word for it. I had all these… I think she picked up on it a little bit. Even we would have discussions about it… about her feeling like I’m kind of both and lost and... So I finally found this gay Christian Bible study in the city. Started going to that. Started attending a church. Started an LGBT group at the church. Kind of found a peace with my spirituality and faith and sexuality. And had been letting go of the church ever since. Looking more at cosmos. I’m a hippie. People and energy and stuff like that. Stuff I think people call God sometimes.

PAUL: Talk about your relationship with Chemda and how that, how that came about. I know she shared it but uh, on her episode. What has been… because you’re more committed to her then you’ve been in any other relationship and that you are engaged societally, in terms of society’s view of you. You’re more committed to her then you have been before. Talk about what it’s like being queer and wanting to be married and all the hurtles seeing how it’s portrayed in the media and people that are against it and her family having a problem with that.

LAUREN: Woohoo… Oh boy.

PAUL: I know that’s a lot of questions, but umm--

LAUREN: Cool, all right. Okay. Also before I say that, just cause I know I’m going to forget this. I just want to say one thing. Another reason I’m not transitioning, I think it also is… this is become kind of a side, a side reason, or a side bonus… maybe… more so, which I also resent. I think it is important for people to see trans people and recognize in us who they are, what they are, even if they don’t match their bodies. I don’t think we should have to physically transition in order to be seen by other people or for other people. I know that’s not always the reason why, I wonder if that plays into it more than we know, but you know, who knows? Who knows? Until society changes, which it is slowly, but surely.

PAUL: I’m glad you said that because it’s, it’s what’s inside that person more than how they’re perceived.

LAUREN: Yeah, it’s crazy how much… OH! And pronouns again. Going back to your question about pronouns and what you said earlier. I have realized that pronouns are more based on visual than actual. And so when people refer to me with female pronouns, depending on the day, sometimes I feel hurt by it because they know better. Sometimes I feel…

PAUL: Because it’s people you know?

LAUREN: Yeah.

PAUL: Okay.

LAUREN: And they know me and that, you know, sometimes I feel like it’s done on purpose, but I have to let it go. Sometimes, like people actively choosing not to acknowledge it and sometimes I correct them. Sometimes I don’t. You know, I never know when to because I know what I look like and I don’t make it easy. It comes out, you know when people correct themselves, I see it. I hear it. I appreciate it even if I don’t acknowledge it. And sometimes I don’t give a fuck and I know what I look like. And I know they know me and see me. But who do I tell? What bathroom do I go into? Am I making a moral case of it or an ethical case of it today or do I just skip the bathroom altogether or do I just go into the girl’s bathroom because it’s easier? Or do I even want to fucking have a conversation? Is it important?

PAUL: Talk about the bathroom thing. You got to go the bathroom. You’re in a restaurant. Let’s say you are with a table of people that know your trans man. What goes through your mind as you’re like, ‘I go to the bathroom.’

LAUREN: Oh yeah, it’s like. Okay so I’m walking towards the stalls, right? And there is a little figure with the dress and there is a little figure without the dress, you know? It’s like, okay, exactly. It’s just that moment before. It’s that question of am I willing to put up the uncomfortability with conceding to ease by going into the female restroom when I actually have a one person show that I’m developing and showing and working on that talks all about me wanting to be seen as… seen, period. And it deals with the funny stuff about it. And they all just saw it let’s say. What do I do? You know, I had the moment after one of my shows. And it’s like, a lot of times I just hold it because I don’t even want to deal with it. But I’ve learned… I’m going into the male restroom more. Even if my friends are not around that know that or Chemda’s not around, or whoever. Just because I’m like… You know it will make me feel better right now. So I just walk in for the most part dudes are not looking at each other in the bathroom anyway. So walk in and go, come out and if anyone looks at me funny I just say, “I had to. Trust me.” And that’s the end of that. And that’s the truth.

PAUL: And I think it’s probably a different vibe then a male going into a female… A person who looks outwardly male going into a female thing because I think most women would assume there is a perfect quality to this guy doing it where is I think if you see an outwardly female person in the male bathroom he would probably think she just had to use the bathroom really badly.

LAUREN: Exactly. Which kind of sucks. That kind of sucks. I think that’s what gender neutral bathrooms kind of get rid of that bullshit.

PAUL: Which I understand they… a lot of colleges have those.

LAUREN: I think it’s great.

PAUL: Which shocked the shit out of me when I was… when I heard it because I was like… I was so sexually wound up in college, I don’t think I could’ve handled showering and knowing there was a girl showering next to me. Or stepping out of the shower and there’s a girl in a towel right there. It’s… I think it’s great but… and this is my--

LAUREN: Oh I know.

PAUL: This is my issue. This is me bringing my sexual frustration.

LAUREN: I’m with you man. I was in those locker rooms my whole life, right? I was fucking like… ‘Oh God! Like don’t look up.’ You know?

PAUL: Yeah.

LAUREN: Totally… ‘Don’t look. Don’t look. Don’t look. Fuck it, I have a boner. No one can see it’, like…

PAUL: Yeah… Yeah…

LAUREN: I’m with you in that. It’s uncomfortable.

PAUL: Well for me I wouldn’t have been that I wanted to be seen, it would have been, I wouldn’t have been aroused, but I would have felt dirty. I would have felt… I would have felt like… like I hated myself for feeling that way, but I wanted more of it.

LAUREN: My God, Yes!

PAUL: I would have wanted to live in there and just watch girls come in and out. And I’m sure that a certain point it would have been like Uhh!

LAUREN: Well that’s the thing. I would think it was so weird. Everyone would just focus on their own shit and get in an out. That’s just how it would be. And I’m sure coed bathrooms if coed showers are probably blocked enough to where you can have that privacy and dress and undress without anyone seeing you. They would have to be built that way. I think they should be built that way if they were coed or not. Some people are just more private than others and some don’t give a fuck. “It’s just my body, man!” But whatever. I mean, I think that guys feel sexually charged around other guys sometimes locker rooms even if they’re not gay. It’s just… we’re all naked, we’re together, this energy and we’re animals, you know, and we can like avoid it as much as we want, but fuck dude, dudes are sexual with each other and they call it sports and that’s cool. You know and chicks are too. They call it being a chick and that’s cool. It’s just the ways we allow ourselves intimacy. I can be intimate with this dude if I bring up this sports game then we can have something to talk about and we can bond as men, right? Whereas chicks are more like, “You want to just snuggle and watch a movie?” It’s just more accepted. It’s easier.

PAUL: Whose company?

LAUREN: Not always, I guess I’m generalizing.

PAUL: Those are kind of broad strokes but I get what you are saying. Whose company are you more comfortable around? A group of guys or a group of girls or kind of evenly because they both have their own energy and you enjoy both of them?

LAUREN: Well, I do have the female experience. I do have the male brain so it’s an interesting… I see people a lot more than I want to sometimes, I think.

PAUL: What do you mean?

LAUREN: Like people’s tactics, choices, decisions to do what they do. It’s part of being a good actor, I think and that’s not coming from ego, I’m just a storyteller and I think it’s just the natural ability that some people have and some people learn and I’ve been able to have both of those experiences with it. I think it helps me a lot because I’m able to empathize with different people’s situations and kind of put on their… because I see why they are doing what they are doing. I get, you know? I get it.

PAUL: Can you be more specific when you say their tactics?

LAUREN: Sure, I mean, we all have tactics in life to get what we want. Right now I’m speaking a certain way to solicit a certain idea to get you to feel a certain way about what I’m saying. So that is my tactic, right? Or maybe you’re looking at me a certain way to make me feel comfortable in order to get what you want, right? That’s all we do all the time, so my brain sees those too clearly. Like a nerd sees numbers sometimes too much. It’s puts like algorithms together in their head all the time. I’m seeing people’s tactics all the time and I try to step away from that little bit. And just, you know, enjoy life for whatever. It’s like, even if I’m watching a show… and I hope this isn’t coming off like… I don’t know…. Weird. Or if I’m watching a show, you know, I’ll pick the show apart and maybe it sounds like I’m talking shit about it. I’ll pick every little thing apart about it from the technical to the acting to why they did this and all of their choices or how I thought the writing differed or the same… and it’s not even that… I mean I love doing that stuff. I’m a nerd about it, right? But I’m a nerd about it. And it’s like overwhelming. So I think I see both sides because I kind of have both experiences.

PAUL: I see.

LAUREN: So I’m able to… It’s like behind enemy lines, you know what I mean? With women, what I love about women is the intimacy that you can get with them and so quickly and so deeply without it being something that’s weird or sexual necessarily. The depth you can go with topics. I love you how… of course all these are going to be broad strokes because we’re breaking men and women up into gender classifications, which isn’t necessarily correct for everyone. But for the most part my female friends I’m able to get more, more deep with them, more emotional and that strokes that sort of side that feels good--

PAUL: Kind of mamma’s love, kind of--

LAUREN: Soul kind of connecting. And it’s almost like, I like hanging out with guys because it is… that is done in a different way and sometimes that’s just too intense. It’s like… and with guys it’s like we don’t have to say it, we just know. We know because we’re here and we are talking and we’re enjoying the specific thing and if it was pointed out it would get weird so let’s just like watch the game and talk about this thing and never talk about what we talked about again, which I also appreciate and enjoy.

PAUL: The ball busting is one of the things that I enjoy so much--

LAUREN: I love that too!

PAUL: … about male company.

LAUREN: Literal ball busting, like. I’ll flick your balls if and I’ll make you show me your dick because I want to see it, but that--

PAUL: Is that something that happens?

LAUREN: Or just messing with each other, horsing around absolutely I feel you have to be a little more sensitive sometimes with women. What you comment on or what you… And that’s a big society-molded thing. Is that a thing? When I was a kid I use to make my friends show me their dicks. I just wanted to see them. I don’t know. I use to draw penises a lot too. Did you guys do that? (unintelligible)

PAUL: I think I did… there was a, there was a curiosity about seeing guys penises when I was a kid, but I think having seen a couple of them, I was like I think I just wanted to know where mine fit.

LAUREN: Right!

PAUL: Where mine fit in.

LAUREN: Right!

PAUL: The true, the real obsession… if I could’ve seen ten vaginas every day, you know, I would have been like I’ve… this is heaven. I was just endlessly fascinated with vaginas. I didn’t want to touch them. I didn’t want--

LAUREN: Little intense.

PAUL: Whatever the song is… the music is… that when the gates of heaven opened that’s what I would see when a girl would pull her pants down as a child. It was just… I felt like I was where I was supposed to be in the universe.

LAUREN: All right! Nice!

PAUL: Yeah, but I felt shame about it because--

LAUREN: Oh I did too.

PAUL: Because it was so addictive.

LAUREN: Every time I masturbated, I felt bad.

PAUL: Because you were thinking about a girl? Would you objectify? Would be it be about their vaginas or would it just be about closeness with them.

LAUREN: No way man, totally. I thought of sexual stuff that I did not know that people actually did from when I was very young. I put together sexual situations, I didn’t even know it was a thing. Like I didn’t really want to see vaginas. They kind of freaked me out little bit. Penises didn’t really freak me out at all. I didn’t really care. Vaginas were weird. I did like watching the, when I watched scrambled porn at night, but I had to be in a certain mood. But yeah, because I liked girls, I always felt guilty. I felt it was a girl that I really loved. Like someone I kind of would have a huge crush on for a while or choose to just focus my energy toward. I wouldn’t feel guilty about masturbating to her.

PAUL: Would it be the thought of being around her energy, holding her…

LAUREN: It was like putting my mouth on her nonny and doing things like that. Like even before I knew that was a thing.

PAUL: Okay.

LAUREN: And it would be like her holding my peepee and you know, pulling it, whatever it was. I always dreamed with a dick too. I still don’t get it.

PAUL: Do you… I hope this isn’t too graphic or personal, but have you ever used a strap on and is there any type of satisfaction in using that?

LAUREN: Strap-ons to me are a little novel. The strap itself, I feel, you’re wrapping something around your ass cheeks. It’s just so uncomfortable and so it pulls me out of it completely. You know… I mean… I’ve… Also this is since learning the word trans and feeling okay with this now and not fighting it so much anymore. I’m feeling like, okay, it’s more normal than I thought. This isn’t so crazy. I’ve since gotten things to where I’ll wear something that, you know, is called packer in the community, which is a phallus that you can put into your underwear there just have that. And you know, no one can even see it and it’s not big. It’s something there that makes just a physical connection with the physical world. From what I already feel--

PAUL: In sexual situations or just walking around?

LAUREN: Just in general and it’s not every day, but it’s just a connection--

PAUL: It’s got to feel good.

LAUREN: It’s a connection to the physical world that I already have there and it’s just like, it’s just like, okay. There’s not so much of a ‘Oh yeah!’ feeling every day. Every time I go to adjust, ‘oh yeah, oh yeah.’ It’s not there or whatever it is, it’s just do it and move on. I do have medical prosthetic that is designed to be as close to my phallus as it can be, that I have, that I can use during intercourse. I don’t have to. But again it’s just the connection with the physical world that Chemda can feel me with or without it.

PAUL: So it’s not a necessary thing… sometimes.

LAUREN: Not necessary.

PAUL: But it’s nice to mix it up.

LAUREN: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And for me… It’s actually more for me because I really like the visual. I’m very visually stimulated so I enjoy, it’s not as much of a mental shift over that I have to do in order to make the connection. So I enjoy seeing her touch it and put her mouth on it and everything like that.

PAUL: Yeah, I love seeing my penis in action.

LAUREN: Absolutely… Me too.

PAUL: There is something really powerful about seeing the act of penetration and sometimes--

LAUREN: And seeing what you feel. And seeing what you’re feeling is very powerful for me.

PAUL: For me often times masturbating. I just like lookin’. Just like lookin’ at my penis.

LAUREN: I’ve masturbated with a prosthetic, as well.

PAUL: What’s another aspect of being a trans man that people may not know about or that you struggle with or that you’ve come to terms with? Or something outside of being a trans man? Just something that you’ve struggled with as a human being?

LAUREN: I mean, you know, no dude likes being called a chick or a girl, even though I think women are better in a lot of ways.

PAUL: In what ways?

LAUREN: I kind of wish I was a woman. It would make things easier for me. Just… I think they’ve been given more… What’s the word I’m looking for? When you allow something?

PAUL: Leeway?

LAUREN: Yeah, leeway. There is a better word. I’m just blanking. They’ve been given more leeway, more allowance, or whatever word I’m looking for is, to… to be more empathetic, which I think is huge in human existence, which I think is lacking in a lot of male American expectations. And uh, which keeps men from connecting with themselves, which I think is really sad.

PAUL: It is…

LAUREN: I think that I am attracted to people with both energies, masculine and feminine whether they are women or men. And most of my friends are very… Most of my male friends are very feminine. When I put all of these terms in quotes and I mean things that are attributed to feminine traits. You know, empathy or being emotional or allowing themselves to feel certain way in public and express it.

PAUL: Being nurturing.

LAUREN: Nurturing! And the same with the women in my life. Allowing themselves to be more masculine or more controlling or commanding or tomboy-ish or whatever it is. I think it’s important to have a good balance. It makes you more man or woman.

PAUL: I agree, there are… my group of male friends, my group of female friends both feed me profoundly in different ways and I waited forty years to feed… to be fed from the female things. And to give to them as well, but I’ve always enjoyed the company of men it just feels so natural to me. Sitting around the locker room after the game and talking about the game and busting each other’s balls and there’s just something so relaxing about it. And also empowering because I feel the masculinity in me coming out and being seen. Because I think there’s a lot of fear that being male, that we are not male enough. And so when it happens--

LAUREN: Oh yeah…

PAUL: I’m sure you don’t relate to that at all. When we feel very male there’s something about it that just feels right.

LAUREN: Well that… That’s the nature. That is what makes males and females different. That’s why there are transgendered people. That’s why gender… There is a difference. I do think that there is that animal… Sorry, not to cut you off. There is that animal instinct. That thing. And that’s what stereotypes are based out of. I think they’re (unintelligible) and cartoonized and you bring them back to their very core. It’s very natural. And I have that too. And I’ll notice a group of men be aware of me at first and sort of just forget about it after a while which I appreciate and like and that’s something for me. Fuck, when I’m acknowledged by men, you know, by other men. It is so important and it feeds me too. And that energy and being able to be seen by them and accepted into the pack by them is so important to me and that’s one of the hardest things about it because you know there’s a lot of stigma around me because it’s like… because of what I look like. I may bring down your masculinity if you refer to me as one of you, sort of thing. And I get that because I’m one of you. I get it, right? Which is why I so badly want to be included too. Incorporated. It feels so childish. Feels like such a young feeling to me to just wanting to fit in, but that is very nature-oriented.

PAUL: Wow.

LAUREN: And that is what I get from men as well. That is sort of what I was saying (unintelligible) just connecting and having that.

PAUL: Yeah, and sometimes it’s just by their relaxing around you. They don’t even have to say anything is just like the way they look at you. The, the--

LAUREN: It is an affirmation that you cannot get from anywhere else if you are a man.

PAUL: The walls are down. You know, there’s no filter. And when I experience that around women it’s equally as awesome and I feel like I must be a gentle soul that they are able to let me be a part of this conversation that they’re having. Even if it’s just a one-on-one that they trust me enough to open up or they see, I guess for a lack of a better word, my feminine side and feels like--

LAUREN: Right, all of these are in quotes. I get it.

PAUL: Yeah, it feels, because I feel like I have a really big feminine side. And it--

LAUREN: You are a well-rounded man and that makes you a better man. More of a man. That makes you more of a man.

PAUL: I do feel like that. And when that part is seen by women it… God, it just feels so awesome. And I was sharing with this… somebody the other day that especially when I’m around women who experienced incest. Because that is it’s own club that… And I feel close to men who have experienced it as well, but with women I get the nurturing from them. So it touches me on level that is so deep. It is so deep it just goes to my very, very core and it… and it feels like the hug I should have got from my mom.

LAUREN: Totally, wow. Well that you are aware of that I think that’s a lot of what we attribute to feminine qualities is the awareness about things about our self.

PAUL: What we need emotionally.

LAUREN: Yeah, and being able to ask for that and to accept it. And I don’t think that’s feminine. I think it takes a lot of courage and strength to be able to do that. To be able to relax even, but I think we have similar things that we get from men and women that are important to us in similar ways.

PAUL: Talk about, unless there is something from the… Well, let’s talk about things outside of your gender, being a trans man, that you, being a trans man, struggle with. Is there mental illness in your family, addiction? Any snapshots from your life that were informative.

LAUREN: A lot of my mental illness, a lot of my jealousy and my possessiveness issues I think have to do with not being seen and feeling inadequate and feeling emasculated. My brothers were running away a lot too and so that kind of ties in with fear of loss. So you have this inadequacy complex that where I tend to explode sometimes for stupid reasons. If someone… If I think someone is hitting on Chemda, or something like that, you know, I’ll feel a spray in my head and it’s like, it blacks me out. It’s the Hulk comes out. And it’s not that I even think she’s going to do anything, I just feel as though I’m not being seen. It’s almost coming from that. It almost all comes from that. It definitely overshadows a lot of mental stuff. As for addiction, I’ve been pretty lucky in that area. I haven’t even gotten addicted to cigarettes. I smoke week on a daily basis. Maybe I’m addicted to that? But it helps give me perspective. It helps with those… that spray I was talking about. So does therapy and there are things I’m actively working on that marijuana is a big part of. You did ask me one thing earlier about Chemda and how that whole thing being trans and all that. This is how I found out about me being trans, I’ll try and make that real quick. I mean the word transgender rather. It was one of the first time we were together sexually. Actually, we had been together a few times before that and afterwards she… I could tell she had something on her mind and she looked at me and said, “I got to tell you. When I’m with you I feel like I’m with a guy. It’s weird. I can feel your… And I’ve been with chicks before and I kind of feel weird.”

PAUL: She said that.

LAUREN: And I started crying and she’s like “Goddamn it. I don’t know why I would say that, I’m sorry.” And I was like, “No, no, no you see me. You feel me.”

PAUL: Wow!

LAUREN: And it was our mutual friend Emmy was like, “Duh, Lauren, you’re a dude.” And give me this book and is like, “Read this. I already know that.” That’s where I found that word out. So Chemda played a big role.

PAUL: Wow.

LAUREN: It helped me find that.

PAUL: Well thank you so much, I really feel privileged to hear your story and especially how you’ve articulated it with such vulnerability and I just love when I get to hear an experience that I haven’t heard before and I know everybody’s experiences have a quality of uniqueness to them, but… And we’ve had other trans guests on, but everybody’s stories different and I’m always touched by people’s willingness to open up and talk about stuff that a lot of people wouldn’t talk about because they are afraid of being judged. And that’s just awesome.

LAUREN: Yeah, man. Thank you so much. That’s how we heal ourselves and each other. Thank you for allowing me to be a part of it. I’ve always been a fan of yours.

PAUL: Oh thank you.

LAUREN: This is a privilege for me.

PAUL: My pleasure. And look we made it! 6% battery!

LAUREN: All right!

{END INTERVIEW}

Many, many thanks to Lauren. If you want to check out his website go to laurenhennessey.com. I’ll put a link up on our website. Lauren’s name is spelled L-A-U-R-E-N-H-E-N-N-E-S-S-E-Y and I think he said he was going to be doing a one-person show coming up. And we recorded that about two months ago, that episode. Want to remind you guys about the Midroll survey for our show. The Midroll is… who books the ads for our show and they try to pair up sponsors that would be appropriate for the show. But to do that they need to know about you guys, the listeners so if you would go and complete an anonymous short survey takes no more than five minutes. And if you complete the survey you will be entered into an ongoing monthly raffle to win a hundred dollar Amazon gift card and they will not share or sell your email with anybody and the won’t send you an email unless you win the monthly raffle. So go to Podsurvey, that’s P-O-D-S-U-R-V-E-Y.com/mentalpod. That’s podsurvey.com/mentalpod and you’re not only helping them, but you’re helping the show. I think that’s pretty obvious. ‘Jesus, Paul!’ I’m sorry, I’m a little sleep deprived.

Before we read some surveys and at some point I tell you to go fuck yourself, because that’s gotta be in there. I’m actually getting a little tired of the ‘Go fuck yourself’ thing. I want to remind you that there is a couple of different ways to support the show, if you feel so inclined. You can support us financially by going to the website mentalpod.com. Mentalpod is also the Twitter name you can follow me at. Go to the website and you can make a one-time PayPal donation or my favorite a recurring monthly donation for as little as five bucks a month and that helps keep us going and I greatly, greatly appreciate it. You can support us by shopping at Amazon through our search portal. It’s on our homepage, right hand side about halfway down and buying a t-shirt or a coffee mug or other stuff we have links to on our site. And you can support the show by spreading the word through social media. I’ve noticed that we have a growing presence on Reddit. And a kind, kind listener named Alexis has been posting some YouTube clips from the show. She’s taking excerpts from the show and them posting there. So if you want to follow Mentalpod on YouTube, you can see some of those too. She even posted the full Maria Bamford episode there on YouTube. Mind you, there’s no visual to it other than the logo of the show, but 50,000 people have watched that, or listened to that YouTube video/audio or whatever you want to call it so far. So thank you for that Alexis it’s great, great idea and I appreciate all of the work she does in doing that. I also want to give some love to Moe who helps keep the forum running and there’s so many of you guys that just pitch in here and there. Now I’m going to start to get maudlin and I’m going to bring Frank Sinatra out and we’re gonna sing a… church hymn. I don’t know if I can explain to you how hard my brain is trying function right now.

The surveys. This is Shame and Secrets Survey filled out by a guy named Doc. He is straight, in his fifties, raised in a pretty dysfunctional environment, was sexually abused and never reported it. “A Boy Scout leader talked me into allowing him to perform oral sex on me. This happened about six times. I allowed it to continue and did not know how to stop it. I felt powerless and weak. I did not want this and still feel weak for letting it happen. My parents divorced and we moved so I escaped the situation before it got worse.” By the way, children don’t allow it to happen. Adults use their power to manipulate the child into freezing. There was nothing… none of it is on you. Even if you wanted it, it would not be on you. I know I say this over and over again to people, but it bears repeating because it’s such a deep scar. Have you ever been physically or emotionally abused? “Been emotionally abused. Grew up with a father who ridiculed me. I was rejected…” By the way. I think, I think a lot of other people would agree that when you grow up with a parent who demeans and withers away your self-esteem… Any child that grew up in the environment you’re about to describe… I read this already… is incapable of standing up to a predator. Incapable of it. Anyway… “Grew up with a father who ridiculed me…” I so just want to apologize for a thousand different things because my brain is just screaming at me that I’m fucking up, I’m stumbling over words, I’m commenting too much and it makes it better if I can just say that out loud. It’s like you guys are the friend on the phone that I pick up the phone and say that “I’m having a rough day. Here’s what’s going on.” You’re like my support group when I’m doing the podcast. It’s so nice to be able to say, “God, I’m feeling really insecure right now.” Anyway, “Grew up with a father who ridiculed me. I was rejected and made fun of. My siblings were treated better, but not perfect. They feel guilty now is they would put me down with my dad. My mother would feel sorry for me and say she could not do anything. Relatives would say, ‘it’s too bad because you are a good kid.’ Thanksgiving, during my parents’ divorce, my dad refused to take me to Thanksgiving dinner as I had no decent clothes to wear. He took my siblings and would not bring me anything home to eat. I was devastated. The sexual abuse started right after this. Forty years later, I ask my dad about this and he says he can’t remember. I have poor self-esteem and have looked for attention first by being a troublemaker and dropped out of high school. Later I got my GED and went to college. I became a doctor to get the positive strokes I need. I have multiple advanced degrees and my patients love me, but I still feel like I don’t deserve it. I overcompensate so everyone finds me valuable for what I do, not who I am. I am in an emotionally abusive marriage and allow my wife to put me down. I do not stand up for myself and allow others to take advantage of me.” I’m struck by so many things as I read this Doc. First of all, at how awesome it was that you were this high school dropout, then you went and got your fucking GED and went to college and became a doctor, which is so awesome, so clearly you can fight for yourself. You have it in you. But there are these other areas I think related to the abuse that you’re having trouble feeling that you’re worth it to stand up for yourself. You got it in you, man. You have it in you fight more for yourself, to stand up to your wife. I highly recommend a childhood sexual abuse survivors support group. There’s a gazillion of them out there. Maybe contact the rape and incest national network and… because they’re everywhere. Any positive experiences with the abusers? “Positive attention even with the abuse was better than negative attention.” Darkest thoughts: “I still feel there is something wrong with me and that nobody should love me because of it.” And by the way buddy, that is textbook for people that were abused. Darkest secrets: “I have not fought to protect my kids from an abusive mom.” Sexual fantasies most powefulr to you: “I think of being abused by females and humiliated. It excites me and upsets me greatly. I feel stupid and ashamed with it. Very embarrassed.” Well, welcome to the other room that the rest of us have been in, waiting for you to open up and share. What of anything you would like to say to someone you haven’t been able to? “Not sure.” What of anything do you wish for? “To be strong and stand up for me and my kids.” Well dude, it sounds like you got… You know where the goal is you need to head towards. It’s just a matter of how do I get there? So I highly recommended that if you are not in therapy, going to see a therapist, especially one who specializes in sexual trauma. Dude you went and got your GED and became a fucking doctor. You can, you can do this. You can do this. And you know what? Even people… anybody can do this. It just takes fighting through that part of your brain that tells you, ‘I’m not worth it” or ‘ It’s going to be a waste of time.’

This is from My First Day in Therapy survey, filled out by a woman who is between eighteen and twenty-five. What brought her to therapy: “I was tired of feeling shitty all the time. Self-harm, depression, and anxiety are exhausting and I wanted to have a place to be open about it.” Any fears associated with starting it? “I was worried that I would find out that I don’t actually have any issues and I was just being ridiculous.” Did any of your fears come true? “ I still have doubts sometimes, but that is my paranoia and not anything my therapist has said.” What’s worked best for you in therapy? “I just like having a place that I can feel comfortable in. It took a while, but I finally don’t feel anxious when I go any more.” What were your initial impressions of your therapist? “I could tell we were getting to be a good fit because in the first session I opened up a lot including speaking about my self-harming tendencies. Sometimes there is poor word choice because my anxiety makes me nervous, but that’s just me.” Do you feel you can be completely honest with your therapist? “Not yet. He knows more about me than most people do, but I get nervous about judgment and being a disappointment, which is completely unfounded since he has never given me any reason to think that way.” Anything you like to share with the group of new therapists? “Patience is key. I still have trouble starting conversations after two months of therapy. It’s very difficult for some people, especially those who feel like they burden people, to feel comfortable enough to start a conversation.” Thank you for sharing that.

This is a Happy Moment filled out by a woman who calls herself Queen Waffle and she writes, “A happy moment. A friend gave me chocolate knowing without me saying that I was anxious. And knowing it would help calm me down. It made me feel so happy and safe, and protected to know someone was thinking of how I was feeling and extending this small but incredible act of kindness to help me out.” That really touched me when I read that because it also reminded me that we so think that… and I bet that person when they saw the look on your face and saw that you felt, felt. I bet that they… a peace came over them and whatever problem they were having with their day, that intensity lessened. And I try to remind myself sometimes, when I’m trying to get something from the universe in the middle of a shitty day or a day I feel empty, I try to remember by extending love or kindness to somebody else, I can get that. So in a way there’s always that option at our fingertips when we feel like we’re just this dry sponge in the middle of the desert and it’s not going to rain for a month.

This is a Shame and Secrets Survey filled out by a guy who calls himself… Oh my God. I might as well have my head on pillow! DTJ. He’s straight, in his twenties, raised in a slightly dysfunctional environment. Ever been the victim of sexual abuse? “Some stuff happened, but I don’t know if it counts. I was twelve or thirteen and on a camping trip with the youth group. There was a girl four or five years older than I in the group. I was very attracted to her. She and two other girls pulled me off in the woods and after sometime started groping at me and wanted to view my genitals. I have never been confident in my appearance and was very embarrassed. I was a sheltered child and couldn’t deal with the attention I was getting. I refused them and returned to the main group. The three mocked me for the rest of the time I knew them. This partly contributed to my feelings of self-doubt and depression that I have felt for years. Most guys would jump the chance to have such attention. Often I look back and wonder what would happen if I accepted them. Probably would have mocked me regardless.” By the way, that is sexual abuse. You know I want to say this to men out there who experience stuff like this. The first thing to do is reverse the sexes. And if I were to read that and it was three seventeen year old guys doing it to a twelve year old girl, well, there’s no question that that’s sexual abuse. So I think that answers your question. Have you ever been physically or emotionally abused? Never been physically, but he has been emotionally. “I was bullied a fair bit growing up from grades two to eleven. I’ve been diagnosed with borderline personality disorder recently on top of having several learning disabilities. I’ve been dealing with depression since I was eleven or twelve. I assumed it was just normal emotional phases of growing up and eventually culminated into suicidal thoughts in two or three years of sitting around drinking my depression to sleep. I started seeing a shrink and he has informed me that I’m emotionally abusing myself. Since beginning therapy, I’ve learned that many aspects of my personality that I assumed were normal, being a jerk to people close to me and always having to be right and win at everything I can, were defense mechanisms for dealing with my feelings of inferiority and depression. Looking back on it now, I can see that the people who harassed me growing up were themselves being abused by their families. I wish them the best even though they’re still assholes from what I’ve seen of them on social media.” Darkest thoughts: “I am frustrated. Anything I set my mind to do tends to fail even if I put a hundred and ten percent into it. I want to kill myself, but I can’t take the idea of hurting my girlfriend and family like that.” Darkest Secrets: “I look at porn all the time and masturbate three times a day. This has not interfered with my sex life that much and I know it’s a coping/distraction mechanism for my problems. I don’t want to give it up but I can’t see how I can continue this way once I’ve married my girlfriend. I enjoy having sex but it doesn’t take my mind off my problems like masturbation does. Speaking of marriage I feel like I won’t be able to support my girl and that my issues are going to get in the way of our relationship.” You know you said that the masturbating three times a day doesn’t interfere with your sex life. Well, you know my thought is, yes, you may have still enough semen to go around to have sex with your girlfriend, but it sounds to me like there isn’t intimacy in your life and as an extension of an intimacy, true emotional intimacy in your relationship with your girlfriend especially if you haven’t really truly dealt with the stuff that happened to you on the camping trip. I think talking to… like I said to somebody else in the previous survey go see somebody specializes in trauma because that is trauma, what was done to you. That would traumatize any child. And you were a child. Sexual fantasies most powerful to you: “I would like to have a threesome, but my girl wouldn’t be for it. I don’t know that I could have the confidence if I got in that situation. It’s not the most over-the-top fantasy so sharing it isn’t that big of a deal.” What would you like to say to someone you haven’t been able to? “To my girlfriend, I’m sorry I talked down to you all the time. I’m sorry I’m such an ass to you all the time.” By the way, that is something that we do, those of that were traumatized as kids is we take it out on the people that love us the most. And it breaks my heart when I see myself doing it and I hear other people recognizing that they do it. So know that you are not alone in that. What if anything do you wish for? “I wish I hadn’t isolated myself from people as a kid. I had opportunities for friendships, but my lack of confidence forced me to shut them down. I now find it hard to maintain relationships with more then one or two people.” Have you shared these things with others? “Yes, with my shrink and some of them with my girlfriend.” How do you feel after writing some of this stuff down? “Good.” Anything you would like to share with someone who shares your thoughts or experiences? “To my buddies back home that used to get bullied with me, you don’t need to have your shields up anymore. Let more people in your lives” Oh that’s beautiful. That is beautiful, thank you for that DTJ.

This is Shame and Secrets filled out by Ruby. She is bisexual, in her twenties, raised in a slightly dysfunctional environment, never been sexually abused or physically or emotionally. Darkest thoughts, “Whenever I’m in a room full a lot of people and I’m sitting quietly I’ve intrusive thoughts which are usually of a sexual nature about someone I know or someone who is in the room.” Darkest secrets, “When I was maybe seven, could have been a little younger, my brother who is about five at the time and a friend, a girl, who is his age were over at our house. We all decided we wanted to practice kissing with each other. No other sexual act happened besides kissing. I remember specifically watching my brother and his friend kiss each other and me and my brother kissed briefly. (That is really hard to put into writing.) Because I was the oldest one thinking back to this incident I feel extremely guilty and ashamed that I let it happen. When I am honest with myself, I remember participating because I was truly and innocently curious about what it felt like to kiss. Afterwards, I felt weird about it and it never happened again. I have never talked about this with my brother, however, we are extremely close and I feel it did not negatively impact our relationship at all. However, I fear this could have had a negative effect on the young girl who was over at our house that day. I just am so afraid my actions were sexually abusive and the thought of it having affected her life in any harmful negative way leaves me with such a sense of sadness, shame, and guilt. I also truly don’t know if it negatively affected my brother and know I should probably talk to him about some day, but I’m unsure if I’m ready to do that yet. Ultimately, when it happened, I really feel it was an act between three young children who are curious. Nothing was done maliciously, however since I was the oldest I feel personally responsible for this event having ever happened. I felt I’d forgiven myself in the past, however it still sits with me that this could’ve been something that could damaged someone’s life in a terrible way. I’m too ashamed to talk about it with anyone else.” Well I think that anybody else listening that just heard me read that, just wants to give you a hug and say ‘you are being way too hard on yourself. That sounds purely like children exploring and being curious.’ That’s my two cents and I think every other person listening to this would agree. Sexual fantasies most powerful to you: “The majority of my sexual fantasies involve having sex with women that are actually pretty vanilla in nature, yet they are my strongest fantasies. I feel free and unashamed sharing that.” I love when people put that they’re unashamed of their fantasies. You are in such the minority it’s like you have won your own personal little race to get to that… across the non-shame finish line and I just want to high five you. How do you feel after writing this stuff down? “Shocked that I was actually able to write them down and extremely scared.” Well you have nothing to be scared of, but if it’s still sitting in there, go talk to somebody about it. Talk to your brother about it.

This is from the Shame and Secrets Survey filled out by a guy who calls himself Ironmaiden571. He is straight, in his twenties, raised in as stable and safe environment. Was the victim of sexual abuse and never reported it. “When I was twelve I entered into a relationship with someone who was eighteen or nineteen. It has taken up until last year to admit to myself that was not an even-sided thing because I’m male and had not actively resisted. It feels as though somehow my experience does not count bringing forth a lot of shame and doubt.” He’s never been physically or emotionally abused. Positive experiences with abusers? “My abuser was always kind and loving while in public. I honestly would love to have had him as a friend, but he wanted more.” Yeah, that’s also… to me that’s…. I mean clearly what he did to you was abuse, there’s no question about that. But in case you need any more evidence, the fact that he was kind and loving in public, which to me shows to me that he knew what he was doing and putting on act of (unintelligible). Darkest thoughts: “None really. My loved ones make it so the darkest idea is not shamed when voiced.” Wow, that’s beautiful. Darkest secrets: “Although the time period was a blur, I may have molested a friend while the sexual abuse was going on.” Sexual fantasies most powerful to you: “I’m into rape role play. Luckily so is my girlfriend of two years. Saying it doesn’t affect me as my friends are fairly liberal and it’s not a secret.” That is awesome. Wow! Two surveys in a row where I can high five people having healthy expressions. I don’t know what the words are. My brain is like… Have you ever had your car where it’s starting to run out of gas and you be like, ‘Oh my God! It’s about to clonk out’ and then you get another fifteen yards out of it? That is what my brain feels like right now. What of anything you wish for? “Peace from anxiety. I can’t progress in life with it causing it to grow.” Oh, he can’t progress with the anxiety, I was like ‘with peace? You don’t want peace growing in your life?’ How do you feel after writing these things down? “Terrible. Dredging up these memories has brought on some anxiety.” I’m sorry. I’m sorry that it did that. For a lot of people it can be cathartic, but I would imagine there’s also that component of remembering that stuff that happened. Sending you a hug buddy.

This is from the First Day In Therapy Survey filled out by a woman who is between twenty six and thirty five. What brought you into therapy? “I ended my relationship with my abusive husband of seven years and needed extra support to not go back to the relationship. When I’d left him previously, I always found myself going back to him within days if not hours.” Any fears associated with starting therapy? “Feeling judged if I shared my thoughts and feelings.” Did any of that come true? “No, my therapist has been supportive.” What’s worked best for you in therapy? “Having a safe place to talk where I can learn more about myself without being judged.” Initial impressions of your therapist? “He’s nice. He’s safe. I don’t like that he sits closest to the door. Took me forever to bring that issue up in therapy.” By the way, I want to highly… I’m glad you mentioned that. I want to highly, highly recommend anything that ever comes up in therapy, in your mind, having to do with your therapist, unless you know you’re thinking, ‘Oh my god, you’re so fucking hideous. How do they live with themselves’, but if it’s like ‘I feel like he’s being pushy or that’s passive aggressive how he’s doing that.’ That stuff can be a gold mine to bring up in therapy. Don’t ever shy away from it. Don’t ever shy away from it. And I will express it often as ‘I feel weird sharing this cause I don’t want it to sound mean, but my brain is telling me that you don’t really care about me. That you’re just listening because I’m paying you and after I walk out the door your rolling your fucking eyes and thanking God that you don’t have to see me for another week.’ That’s the kind of stuff that is important to share. Or I feel like, ‘That thing that you said to me fifteen minutes ago felt kind of condescending.’ That’s…. talk about your feelings man. Talk about them. Talk about them. Talk about them. Do you feel that you can be completely honest with your therapist? “Yes, on some level I do feel like that, however it changes with whatever alter is out.” Okay, this person has dissociative identity disorder and they mean alter personality. “It changes with whatever alter is out. Some alters are more private and don’t like me sharing.” Anything you would like to share with a new group of therapists? “Ask clients more questions about disassociation or screen them earlier on in therapy. Within my first three months of therapy, I was diagnosed with PTSD, which made sense, then two years later my therapist told me I have DID.” Which is dissociative identity disorder. “I get it takes a long time to see the symptoms of DID, however I feel like if my therapist had asked more questions earlier on the DID might have come out.” I have no idea how to… I have no two cents on that one because I’m not a therapist, but again I am a jackass that cooked scrambled eggs on basic cable. There’s something to be said for that.

This is from the Shame and Secrets Survey filled out by a guy who calls himself RasputinTheSaint. As soon as I saw that name, I thought, ‘this one is going to have some shit in it.’ This guy is smart and he’s ironic and he’s dark so you know… He is straight, he is in his thirties, raised in a pretty dysfunctional environment. Was the victim of sexual abuse and never reported it. “When I was around five my aunt would involve me in her molestation of my nine-year-old sister either by making me watch as they had ”sex” or by telling what to do and making me do it to them.” That just breaks my fucking heart. Ever been physically or emotionally abused? He has been both. “My father is a sarcastic belittling ass of a human being.” And that is difficult to fit on the drivers license, but it’s right there underneath his name ‘Sarcastic Belittling Ass of a Human Being.” You can hear Herbert panting in the back. “He was never there to say anything helpful. He would also smack me around as a child.” Any positive experiences with the abusers? “ Yes, he is my father and I am supposed to love him.” Well you know my thought when I read that is, ‘That is not a positive experience, that sounds like you just beating yourself up for having a normal reaction to an asshole. I hate that phrase… I hate the idea of ‘I’m supposed to love this person.’ No, you either feel love or you don’t. There’s no right or wrong with feelings. Anybody who’s beating themselves up because they don’t feel love towards somebody stop! Stop it! It is what it is. Darkest thoughts: “Elaborate planning of abducing and sexually using teenage girls and young women.” Darkest secrets: “As a teen I would sneak around and try to look in the windows of girls I went to school with.” Fantasies most powerful to you: “Bondage and domination. Tying up and having my way with women.” Anything you would like to say to someone you haven’t been able to? “I still hurt because of the things you’ve done.” What if anything you wish for? “I wish to be happy and healthy with my wife for as long as possible.” Have you shared these things with others? “Some things I have shared with my wife. She is mostly excepting because she is a bit fucked up herself. There is still so much I have hidden from everyone for fear of rejection and judgment.” How do you feel after writing this down? “It’s nice to share.” Anything you would like to share about your thoughts or experiences? “Not sure anyone else shares all of this fuckedupness.” I think you would be surprised. I think you would be surprised and I encourage you like the other two I mentioned to get into a support group for being a victim of childhood sexual abuse. And a lot of the stuff that you just bounce around in your head and the stuff you did, like peeping… That stuff is very common for people who were sexually taken advantage of as children. Heal that trauma, man. Heal that trauma. You’re worth it.

This is… You know, I don’t want to read another one of these. I feel like I’m… what would the verb be? Molested out.

This is… there’s two left. Two Happy Moments left. This is one filled out by a woman who calls herself Sunflower. And right now my head is just spinning, going “Paul you should have just played the interview and that was it because your energy was terrible. The surveys were too dark. There’s too much about molestation in there and you’re fucking… You’re just a downer. You are just a downer.’ Anyway, Sunflower writes about her Happy Moment: “I have really terrible social anxiety and have a borderline inability to communicate with anyone I am attracted to or admire. That moment when I had first been working hard putting myself out there and a friend of a friend told me how much she admired me for being smart and articulate was one I’ll never forget. I went from the mousy shy girl in high school to someone who can speak out her opinions and still crack a few dumb jokes to make people laugh and that’s so freaking cool I still can’t get over it.” I just love the idea of somebody making the effort and saying, ‘Maybe I’m not doomed to be this person standing in the corner afraid of people the rest of my life.’ And lo and behold, it happens. Herbert what are we doing over there?

And this last one is from SummerGirl and she writes “I was taking an evening bicycle ride something I like to do as often as I can. I love leaving the house when it’s still light out.” Herbert does not care for SummerGirl. “I love leaving the house whe it’s still light out but it’s turning to dusk. The smells and sights are calling to me. I was pumping hard and working up a sweat all the time listening to a Mental Illness Happy Hour episode when I noticed a small field of cut grass near a park. What got my attention was the lightening bugs. Every summer I wait for come out and I can watch them for hours. That evening they kept flashing over the grass from all directions and the effect was so beautifully relaxing. I pulled over and just stared for a while. It reminds me that there’re places in the world where things are whole and can be depended upon. What a comforting feeling that was to me.” Thank you, that’s beautiful. I love when you guys paint a picture this is just so soothing and at one with the universe. That’s beautiful. Well I’m gonna pull my parachute on this three wheel demolition derby I just put together. And I want to thank Lauren again for such a great, such a great interview. It’s really nice getting to know him and I was wondering what he was like cause I only heard about him through Chemda and he did not disappoint. I’m going to go get some fucking sleep. And if you are out there and you’re stuck just know that there is help if you are willing to get out of your comfort zone. No matter what you’ve been through, no matter what you’re feeling, no matter where you feel you’re stuck, it is possible. I would be dead I hadn’t asked for help and just know that you are not alone. And thanks for listening.

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