NORM MACDONALD - January 17, 2006

GUY MACPHERSON: Hey, it's Guy MacPherson calling from

Vancouver.

NORM MACDONALD: Yeah, how you doing?



GM: Good. I can't really hear you but...

NM: [much louder] You can't hear me?



GM: Oh, that's better.

NM: Yeah, I lost my phone. I'm on my speaker-phone. I

paged my phone but I guess it ran out.



GM: Don't you hate that?

NM: It's the worst.



GM: I'm constantly paging my phone. I miss half my

phone calls because I can't find it.

NM: Yeah, because if it runs out of batteries, like,

it doesn't page anymore.



GM: Right.

NM: So it's somewhere. I'll talk real loud.



GM: I haven't seen you around in ages. Where have you

been?

NM: I've been in the United States.



GM: Yeah. I mean...

NM: Oh, you mean on the TV.



GM: Yeah, TV.

NM: I don't know, man. I don't know. I'm no good at

it.



GM: You're great at it.

NM: That's nice. I like doing standup, though, you

know, so I've kind of rededicated myself to standup.

And I'm just going to wait until I figure out

something to do.



GM: I guess that's how you got your start originally,

right?

NM: Yeah. And that's what I'm best at and that's what

I like the most.



GM: You say you're best at standup, and I agree you're

great at it, but you're great at writing, too, since

you got jobs in the States originally through writing.

NM: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm a good writer. That comes

from standup. All my standup's just written. It's not

really much performance.



GM: I read where you said not every comic's like Robin

Williams, who just gets out there and riffs.

NM: That's true, yeah. I can't riff.



GM: You can on the talk shows when I see you.

NM: Yeah, I'm good at talk shows for some reason. But

that's because usually the guy's so good.



GM: The host?

NM: Yeah. Generally I just do Letterman, you know,

because I think he's the best. He's the funniest guy.

You gotta keep up with him, you know?



GM: And they set you up nicely.

NM: Other guys set you up better but it's kinda

flatter because it's just you. Letterman is, like,

funnier than you so you gotta, like, be kinda at the

top of your game because he'll say something funnier

than you and then you have to try and say something

funnier back.



GM: You're so self-deprecating. Do you ever come off

those shows and go, 'Aw, I sucked.' Do you ever just

question yourself right after when you come off?

NM: Oh, yeah, yeah. Most of the time.



GM: But the audience loves it.

NM: Yeah, they have very low expectations, though, you

know?



GM: There you go again!

NM: I'm audience-deprecating as well as

self-deprecating.



GM: Yeah, you deprecate lots of people.

NM: (laughs)



GM: Now that you've rededicated yourself to standup,

are you constantly writing new material?

NM: Yeah, I'm always writing. When I started doing

standup, I wasn't doing it right, I realized.



GM: How were you doing it?

NM: I guess I was just trying to do stuff that would

please the audience, you know? I was sort of, uh,

aiming towards the audience.



GM: (sarcastically) Yeah, you don't want to please the

audience.

NM: (laughs) You want to please them as a byproduct,

but you don't want to write with that in mind, you

know what I mean?



GM: Because then you're just going for the cheap

laugh?

NM: Yeah, you're not doing stuff you think is funny;

you're doing stuff you hope that the audience thinks

is funny, sort of, you know? I talked to Sam Kinison a

lot when he was alive and he kinda changed my attitude

about standup. He was saying, like, "You can talk

about anything you want on stage in standup, so you

should talk about the things that you find the most

interesting." So he goes, "If you're telling me you

find, like, owning a dog interesting or losing your

luggage at the airport interesting, then go ahead. But

if you find other stuff more interesting, you should

really focus on that."



GM: Because the audience will see that it's something

you actually care about?

NM: Yeah, yeah. And the audience doesn't really care

if you lose your bags at the airport, you know, so

much. And so then I started thinking, like what are

people really interested in, and then what am I really

interested in? And I realized what it was. Mostly.



GM: And what is it?

NM: Well, I think mostly, at least what obsesses me

most of the time is first of all, death or disease,

and then probably sex. And beyond that everything else

is sort of trivial compared to that, you know? Like,

if somebody dies or if you get a terrible disease,

it's like that's what's always in your head.



GM: Wasn't it you who made the joke about Cal Ripken's

Disease?

NM: Ha-ha, that was terrible.



GM: But I, too, like you, am kind of obsessed with

death and fearing every little thing that's going to

be some terrible disease with me.

NM: Yeah, especially when you have a child. I remember

when I had my child, I was like, "God, now I have to

live long enough for him to grow up." It's not just

yourself anymore. I remember seeing this movie and it

was the scariest movie I ever saw and I had just had

my kid. It was called My Life with Michael Keaton. It

was this nightmare movie where this guy, Michael

Keaton, his wife is pregnant and then the doctor tells

him he only has a month to live. So he's not going to

see his child born. So he makes a video of his life.

It was the worst. And then he kept trying to get

cures, but he just dies at the end. I had to walk out

of the theatre because it was like my worst fear. Much

more scary than King Kong.



GM: Those movies just depress me. I can't even go to

them. Whenever it's a movie about a disease, I can't

see it.

NM: I was reading this thing about movie titles, you

know, and how they're bad. Like The Great Santini was

a bad title because people thought it would be about a

magician, so they didn't show up and everything. But

they said the worst title ever was this movie with

Julia Roberts and Macaulay Culkin. It was called Dying

Young. (laughs) People didn't care to see it.



GM: Yeah, why would you go see that? So how

disciplined a writer are you?

NM: I can't write standup from scratch. But what I do

is I write movies and stories and stuff all day. I can

write structure and plot, you know, of stuff. So that

part is easy. That's just like a craft, you know? It's

just like learning haiku or something, you know, you

just learn it and it's easy. You can't write funny

stuff like that. But anyways, while I'm writing,

though, at least my mind's working and I'll think of

ideas.



GM: Then you'll come up with stuff that you can't use

in your script?

NM: Yeah. But mostly I get it just from when I'm

ruminating late at night trying to get to sleep.

You're trying to sleep and all these crazy thoughts

are going through your head. So then I scribble stuff

down then. That's usually when I write.



GM: Last night as I was lying in bed, I thought of a

few questions to ask you, but I didn't have my notepad

and I didn't want to turn on the light, so I've

forgotten them now.

NM: (chuckles) My buddy told me he used to get, like,

really stoned, you know? He was a comedian. He said,

"I always think of this really funny stuff, you know,

and the next day I forget it all." So he had this

plan, like he was stoned he was going to write it

down, you know? He was really stoned and he wrote it

down on this piece of paper and he said the next day

when he read the piece of paper, on the piece of paper

it said, "That's really funny."



GM: (laughs) That is really funny, ironically.

NM: (laughs)



GM: When you were doing the fake news, did you write

most of it yourself or were there writers?

NM: No, I wrote it virtually myself, but there was a

guy that sort of served as my editor. There was this

really brilliant guy at Saturday Night Live named Jim

Downey and he was fantastic, that guy.



GM: The other day I listened to the monologue that you

did when you came back to host after being fired. I

couldn't believe that they let you say that the show

blows.

NM: No, they hated me, man.



GM: Did you have to clear that with anyone before you

went on?

NM: Well, they write monologues generally for the

hosts. But when I was on the show, I wrote virtually

everything I was ever in all by myself. I never did

anything that I didn't write, you know? So I was like,

"Nah, I'll write it." And then Lorne [Michaels] goes,

"Just write whatever you want." But the writers

weren't happy at all. (laughs) And they really hated

me.



GM: But it was hilarious. And true, too. And this was

a few years ago when it didn't even blow as much as it

does now.

NM: (laughs) I wouldn't say that.



GM: I just did. Do you still watch it?

NM: Actually, I watch it all the time because I've

watched it ever since I was a kid, you know? Only

lately am I beginning to kinda not understand it. I

mean, maybe I'm too old or something, but I kinda

don't understand the references. They're doing

parodies of MTV shows. And there's a lot of singing

and dancing lately, I've noticed, on the show. But I

don't know who watches it.



GM: Teenagers, maybe?

NM: My son's, like... Well, he's only 12. He doesn't

know anything about it. I don't know.



GM: What's wrong with it? I know they have a cast of

about a hundred.

NM: Yeah, I don't like big casts. Obviously the

original cast was only six or seven guys. Then you get

to know them, you know?



GM: And now you don't know who any of them are.

NM: It's really hard to identify them, yeah.



GM: Have you performed in Vancouver before?

NM: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.



GM: When?

NM: I performed at the Yuk Yuk's they used to have in

Vancouver. I did that one but they wouldn't let me do

the other one. What's the other one?



GM: Lafflines?

NM: No, there was another one.



GM: Oh, Punchlines.

NM: Yeah, Punchlines.



GM: They're not around anymore, but those guys were

arch-enemies.

NM: So Mark [Breslin] would only let you play Yuks

Yuk's.



GM: So you were a Yuks comic in Canada.

NM: Yeah.



GM: For how many years?

NM: Like, four years, probably.



GM: Do you spend much time in Canada now?

NM: No, I never spend any time there. Because my mom,

who's my only living relative, lives in Ottawa, which

is the most boring place ever. It's just easier for me

to fly her here [to L.A.] then to go and live in a

suburb of Ottawa. (laughs)



GM: Did you grow up in Ottawa?

NM: No, I grew up in Quebec City.



GM: Do you speak French?

NM: No, I don't speak French. My father would never

let me learn it (laughs) because the English and the

French don't like each other. So I took Latin in

school instead of French. (laughs)



GM: That's helpful.

NM: Yeah, it didn't make much sense because Quebec

City, where I lived, was virtually 99 percent French

and zero percent ancient Roman.



GM: (laughs)

NM: But I took Latin anyway. It's good to take Latin.



GM: I guess, yeah. It helps you when people are being

pretentious and throwing out Latin phrases.

NM: Exactly.



GM: Your brother [CBC news reporter Neil MacDonald]

is in Canada, isn't he?

NM: Yeah. He's in the States now.



GM: You mean temporarily?

NM: No, he's working in Canada but he's covering,

like, Washington.



GM: Do you see him much? Are you close?

NM: Yeah, I don't see him much because we're on

opposite ends but I e-mail him a lot.



GM: Every time I see him on the news I announce to

everyone in the room, "Hey, that's Norm MacDonald's

brother!"

NM: (laughs)



GM: And if they didn't know already, they're blown

away by that fact.

NM: Yeah, he's a good guy. I'm glad he's in Washington

because he always likes to go to wars. And he has kids

now and stuff. He doesn't really like it [being in

Washington] because, you know, he just stands in front

of the White House and talks and he doesn't do

anything. But I'm glad that he's safe there, you know?



GM: Is he older or younger?

NM: He's older than me.



GM: I know you've said you'd never do a

"mother-fucking reality show", but I was watching The

Bachelor last night and I was thinking how great it

would be if you were the bachelor.

NM: (laughs)



GM: That would be so funny. I think you should

consider that.

NM: (laughs) No, they're the enemy to me. I like

scripted things. I watch TV and movies for fantasy,

you know, not for reality. I don't really understand

that.



GM: What kind of shows do you watch?

NM: There's nothing. Every morning I watch the British

[The] Office.



GM: It's on in the morning?

NM: No, I have a DVD of it.



GM: And that's your morning ritual?

NM: Yeah. I love Ricky Gervais. He makes me laugh

every time. I just love that show so much. So I watch

that. It's cool now with DVD's so I can watch The

Simpsons and stuff. All the shows that I never

watched. Even Seinfeld when it was on, I think only

watched, like, nine episodes. I never understood

appointment TV. I never know what day it is, you know

what I mean?



GM: Yeah. Now I understand why they made the DVD's of

Seinfeld. Because it's running twelve times a day, why

do you need to buy the DVD? But it's for people like

you!

NM: Exactly.



GM: You're playing this great new casino we have here.

NM: Yeah, yeah. Is that the government?



GM: I don't know. But it's amazing. It's like Vegas

north.

NM: Wow.



GM: I know you're a big poker player.

NM: I like to play poker, yeah.



GM: How often do you play?

NM: I started playing when I was young. But now I

mostly play internet poker.



GM: With money?

NM: Yeah. It's real money. It's legal. It's sort of

muddled but I think it's legal.



GM: Is it about the same as if you were in the room

with actual players?

NM: It's much faster. Like I can play five or six

games at once, you know? So I can play about 800 hands

a day whereas in a casino I could only play maybe 100.



GM: You must be pretty good.

NM: Yeah, I'm good. I'm good at poker.



GM: Are you ahead?

NM: In my life?



GM: Yeah.

NM: Oh, I'm way, way ahead.



GM: You're like a pro?

NM: No, I'm not a pro because a pro only makes his

living from it. I'm an amateur.



GM: What was your biggest payday?

NM: You mean like in a single night?



GM: Sure. Like in a single game or tournament.

NM: I hit an internet tournament for I think it was

175 or something like that.



GM: Wow. Thousand, you're talking.

NM: Yeah, but I mean that's, you know, very rare.



GM: Yeah. Because if you had said 175 dollars, I

wouldn't have been that impressed because I won two

hundred the other night.

NM: Oh, you did? In what, a tournament?



GM: No, just with friends.

NM: Oh, I see. I don't really like tournaments. I

mean, they're very, very depressing. Because you can

play for four hours and not get in the money, you

know? And the luck it takes to get a long way in a

tournament, if you had that same luck at a regular

game you'd make way more money. So that's the way I

look at it.



GM: When I said 200, you understand that was dollars,

not 200 thousand.

NM: Two-hundred dollars is great!



GM: I know you're an American citizen now. Are you

also still Canadian?

NM: I'm not an American citizen. I'm a Canadian

citizen. I just keep renewing my green card.



GM: I'd read that you had become an American.

NM: Oh, no. I don't want to be American.



GM: You were a big fan of [Ronald] Reagan and [Bob]

Dole. What about George W. [Bush]?

NM: Uh, well, I don't know about him. I don't know. I

mean, I'm just confused about that whole thing. I'm

not sure what's right or wrong on that. I'm just lost

on that war with Iraq issue. I don't understand if

it's good or not.



GM: So you're withholding judgment.

NM: Yeah, yeah. I mean, I wish there was another

president, a different president engaging the war,

since we're in the war because I don't think Bush did

a very good job with it. The war itself, you know, if

it works it was worth it. But I don't know if it's

going to work, so I don't know.



GM: So you don't get to vote down there.

NM: No, I don't get to vote. I can vote in Canadian

elections.



GM: And do you?

NM: No, I don't. (laughs)



GM: Because there's one on Monday, you know that?

NM: There is? I figured since I never did when I was

in Canada... I never voted because I don't want to

make a mistake. I'm so uninformed that I don't want

that on my hands, you know?



GM: How is your stage persona or your screen persona

different from the real Norm?

NM: Well, my stage persona's exactly the same. And

then my screen persona's like nothing at all. I don't

know what I'm doing when I'm doing that.



GM: You're still "Norm MacDonald" when you're on

screen, I think. You're still that guy. You're not

really getting lost in other characters.

NM: No, I don't get lost in it, but, like, I say lines

that I would never say in real life. I'm just talking

about sitcoms, because they have writers and they tell

you what to say.



GM: But you kind of make them your own.

NM: Yeah, I try my best. (laughs) Like, on Saturday

Night Live it was great because I got to write my own

stuff, so then that was just my voice.



GM: Even in the sketches?

NM: Yeah. In virtually every sketch except when they'd

put me in a small role. But normally I wrote all my

own sketches.



GM: Were you happy with your sitcom experience?

NM: Well, I'm not really a sitcom actor, you know. So

I would say no. (laughs) I liked the second one the

best. But no one ever watched it. It never aired,

hardly. It was a show on Fox called A Minute With Stan

Hooper. And I liked that one. That one only lasted,

like, half a season. The first one, which I didn't

care for that much, lasted like three years. I didn't

care for that one that much.



GM: So no sitcoms in your future?

NM: Uh, well, I'm talking to HBO and stuff. They want

to do something with me. There's no restrictions and

they leave you alone. They just let you do it and they

don't bother you and stuff.



GM: And you have a movie coming up.

NM: I wrote a movie that... Oh shit, look at that. I'm

telling you what a good poker player I am and I just

made a terrible mistake.



GM: Oh, I'm sorry to distract you.

NM: No, no, it wasn't you. It was me. But what were

you asking? Oh yeah, I wrote a movie. I'm trying to

write movies like.... Because I hate being the lead in

the movie. And ever since the start, I tried to get

them to let me write movies where I'd be a side

character. Because I can't do fall in love with a girl

and that stuff. I don't know what I'm doing. So I

always tried to get them to just let me just write a

movie and be a side character in it and they always

wanted me to be the star. And then I proved them wrong

on that count.



GM: You like to be the wise-ass friend or something?

NM: Yeah, because it's really hard to be a star

because you have to be a nice guy and then fall in

love, or you have to be a bad guy and then turn out to

be a nice guy and fall in love with a girl and all

this crazy stuff that has nothing to do with comedy.

In the old days, they would just have a nominal

leading man as the star of the movie, which would just

be some guy, and then they'd have, like, Abbott &

Costello or the Marx Brothers, like, hanging around.



GM: Zeppo was the nominal star.

NM: Yeah, yeah. They never had love stories with

Abbott & Costello or guys like that.



GM: I guess these are Hollywood-type movies where

everything has to be a certain formula. If you were to

go and just make an independent film, you could do it

any way you wanted.

NM: Yeah, that's the way to do it. But the big problem

with comedy in TV or movies is that they have this

crazy thing where you gotta be likeable, you know?

Like that's much more important to them than being

funny. You gotta be likeable, you know? And I was

always like, well, if someone's funny, you like them.

And likeable guys you kinda don't like. Sort of. You

know what I mean?



GM: That's the case with the guy that you work with a

lot, Rob Schneider. The reason I like Rob Schneider is

because he's that jerk. But they put him in movies and

he's got to be this sweet, nice guy and it just

doesn't work.

NM: I know. I never liked that. I always liked Steve

Martin when he was crazy. Because dramatic actors know

how to be likeable and stuff. To me, if you've got a

guy like Steve Martin or Jim Carrey or something, who

are unbelievably funny, I don't know why they'd want

to be dramatic actors when they have no chance.

They're completely outclassed by actual dramatic

actors. How many funny comedy actors are there?

There's like a million great dramatic actors. I don't

know why they'd want to switch. I guess to get respect

or something, I don't know.



GM: So what is the movie you've just written?

NM: It's called Court Appointed Attorney. I'm writing

the final polish on it.



GM: You're in one that's coming out soon, aren't you?

NM: No, I'm not in a movie.



GM: The one with the big bushy moustache you grew.

NM: Oh! (laughs) Oh, no, no, I didn't get into that

movie. I grew a goddamned bushy moustache for it and

then the director said, 'Why'd you grow that bushy

moustache?' And I was like, 'What? It's cool, man.

It'll be funny for the character.' And then she said,

'Nah, nah, you can't have a moustache.' And then I was

like, 'Aw, oh well. All right.' And then I didn't want

to do it anymore. (laughs)



GM: So you didn't even do it?

NM: It wouldn't have been funny without the moustache.



GM: What was the movie?

NM: What was it called? I don't know. I can't

remember. Something with Michelle Pfeiffer in it. I was

going to be Michelle Pfeiffer's husband. That's why I

wanted to do it. It would have been cool.



GM: Do you play casinos so you can get in some poker,

or do you just play on-line?

NM: No, I like playing poker at casinos. I quit

gambling, you know? I used to just do casinos and then

blow all my money, you know? So I decided to quit

gambling. So now I just play poker.



GM: Isn't that gambling?

NM: No, that's not gambling. It's a game of skill, you

know? Gambling would be like craps or sports betting

where you can't win, you know. It's unbeatable because

you're playing a casino and a casino can't lose. So by

default, you lose. Whereas with poker you're just

playing against other players. So if you're better

than the other players, you win.



GM: Providing you get the cards.

NM: No, it doesn't matter. The cards don't matter.

Because everybody gets the same cards. It's just

whoever's better will win. Maybe not that night but

eventually. I started with backgammon when I was a

child.



GM: For money?

NM: Yeah. I was a very good backgammon player. And

then backgammon dried up.



GM: That whole backgammon craze?

NM: Well, there was a kind of.



GM: (laughing) Was there?

NM: You could get, like, big money games. That's

probably actually the best gambling game but that

dried up and all the backgammon players moved to poker

because it's the same game - it's just all math, you

know?



GM: You play Hold'em?

NM: I play limit Hold'em. I should have learned

no-limit, but I learned limit like 25 years ago, so

that's what I know how to do. But I play no-limit on

the computer. It's pretty easy now. It used to be

tough, you know, but now everybody plays so it's very

easy.



GM: Why is it easier if everybody plays?

NM: When I started playing nobody played poker, you

know? So the people that played were all great poker

players. And now everyone plays. I used to go to the

card rooms in L.A. and there'd probably be like 100

guys there and they were all really good. I was

probably the worst player. And now there are 10,000

guys there. So now it's relatively simple. Even if

you're a mediocre player you can win... All you're

asking me about is gambling!



GM: I just got to that! What else do you want to talk

about?

NM: I don't know, man. I love Canada.



GM: And yet you live in the States.

NM: Yeah, yeah, I mean I wish, you know? Now I know

there's more of, like, an industry there. Like, I was

happy that Brent Butt got that show. Because he's a

really funny guy. But there wasn't that opportunity

when I was there. I remember Mike McDonald had one

short-lived series, but that was about it. Otherwise

there was nothing to do. But it was great with

standup. It was way, way better with standup than in

the States. Like, I think the standups are generally

much better in Canada. Because, like, when I was in

Canada, none of us had any ambition to movies or TV

because there were no movies or television. So it was

all standup and we just assumed we'd be standups for

our whole lives and that was what was fun. And then

when I came to the States, I realized, whoa, they

don't take their standup very seriously here because

they're just trying to do something other than standup

and using standup as, like, a springboard to something

else that they're generally not as good at.



GM: They're all actors trying to get more stage time.

NM: Yeah, a lot of handsome guys on stage.



GM: Comedy doesn't need handsome guys.

NM: That's what I try to tell people! Whenever I try

to cast a show, I'm like, 'Enough with these handsome

fucking people.'



GM: It's distracting seeing them.

NM: I know. I just resent them.



GM: And young, too, right?

NM: Young. Handsome. Because what young, handsome

person is funny? I remember on Saturday Night Live

hosts would come in. You know, like handsome hosts.

They'd be dramatic actors generally. And the publicist

would always be like, 'This is a big chance for this

guy because he's really a funny guy and people don't

know it. He's hilarious!' And then he'd just suck, you

know? And then I realized a very important thing: You

know how girls always say they like a guy with a sense

of humour? I think what they do is they just laugh at

whatever a handsome guy says. So the handsome guys are

saying these idiotic jokes and the girls are giggling

and laughing. They're going to think Mel Gibson is

funnier than Shemp.



GM: Because the ugly guy will say something genuinely

funny and they'll just be like, 'Whatever.'

NM: Yeah, right. 'Whatever.' I remember when I was a

kid the guys who were always getting the big laughs

were always like these charming funny guys, and then

I'd say something that I thought was funny and they'd

go, 'You're weird!'



GM: (laughs) Well, they were right on that count, too.

NM: That's true. (laughs)



GM: I remember you on Letterman a few years ago

talking about visiting Victoria.

NM: Yes, I stayed at a bed and breakfast there!



GM: That's my hometown.

NM: That's your hometown?



GM: Yeah.

NM: Oh my God, I love Victoria. I lived there for

about two years.



GM: You did? At what stage in your life?

NM: I think I was like 15. In James Bay. I lived at

the James Bay Inn.



GM: What is a 15-year-old doing living in a hotel? Oh,

you quit school at 15, right? And then you just moved

out to Victoria on your own?

NM: Yeah, I left school when I was young.



GM: And you were a mailman or something?

NM: A mailman?! Well, I did work in the post office,

but not a mailman. Yeah, man, you know when those guys

go nuts and stuff, I can understand it. It's crazy.

They push you so hard, it's insane. You're sorting

mail at a super-fast speed, you know? I didn't do it

long; I did it for about six weeks. Because it was

like Christmas rush so they just hire a bunch of guys.

And it's, like, mind-numbing. It's so fast and the

bosses are like, 'Come on, hurry up, hurry up!' I

wouldn't kill the guy or anything, but I could see how

somebody less mentally stable than I would. Mostly

when I was in Victoria I did manual labour jobs and

stuff. And I went up island a lot, too. So you were

right in Victoria?



GM: Yeah.

NM: It's so beautiful, oh my God.



GM: When was the last time you were here in Vancouver?

NM: I filmed a horrible movie there, like six years

ago or something like that.



GM: Which movie?

NM: It was called... What did they end up calling it?

Screwed. [Dave] Chappelle was in it.



GM: And Sarah Silverman was in it?

NM: Yeah. And Brent Butt was in it. That was a

tremendously bad movie. Although the script was

fantastic, but just me and Chappelle were so terrible.



GM: You see this a lot - a great script that turns

into a terrible movie. Is it really a director's

medium, like they say, where they can screw up a good

script?

NM: Well, that movie in particular was my fault.

Because this guy wanted me to do a movie and I found

this movie that was really hilarious. And I said to

the guy, "You should do this movie. Not with me, but

you should do this movie." Then he said, "Yeah, yeah,

you wanna do it?" And I go, "No, no, I don't want to

do it. Because I think it's written for two old black

guys." Like Fred Sanford and his buddy. And he said,

"No, no, it'll be great." So they talked me into it

but I knew it was wrong-headed [because] when I read

the movie I was like, "No, this is two old black guys;

this isn't me and Chappelle." Then when I was talking

to the guys who wrote it, it turned out it was written

for two old black guys. But nobody wants to do a movie

with old people. For some reason. God only knows. I

love old people in movies.



GM: I heard that when Paul Reiser went around to pitch

his film with Peter Falk as his dad, they would say,

"No, how about you're the father with a young kid?"

They didn't want Reiser being the son.

NM: That's terrible. Imagine not wanting Peter Falk.

That's crazy.



GM: Well, you know, they're thinking of the kids.

NM: Yeah, I know, but my kid, I show him old shows and

he loves them, you know? I show him The Honeymooners

and Get Smart! Because when I grew up, young people

weren't the stars of TV shows.



GM: That's true. We're the same age. I showed my

nephew, who was seven at the time, Horse Feathers

starring the Marx Brothers. He loved it.

NM: Oh, that's great.



GM: The next day I woke up and he was watching it

again.

NM: That's great. Yeah, my kid's favourite show, I

just watch Beverly Hillbillies with him all the time.

And they're all old and ugly and it's hilarious. So I

think kids would still like that. It's the same with

writers. They get young writers, too, in Hollywood,

you know, to write which is really nuts because

they're not even on camera. And obviously older

writers are better than younger writers. It just makes

sense. Like, novelists are all old.



GM: And they were all young once. The young people

were never old.

NM: Yeah! That's a good point! I never thought of

that. Yeah, you're right. But that's their thinking

here. That's what's good about standup. It's just you,

you're completely responsible and you can say whatever

you want.



GM: You ever bomb in standup?

NM: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.



GM: Even now that you're famous?

NM: Sure. Absolutely.



GM: How do you feel about that?

NM: Really, it doesn't concern me much.



GM: Because the audience is wrong?

NM: Yeah, that's the way I look at it. Because... I

don't know. Like, when I did [Weekend] Update, I

always thought I'll never do a save. I'll never do,

like, that Johnny Carson thing where he danced after

the joke didn't work. I was always like, no, I think I

know more about comedy than the audience. I'm pretty

certain of that. So if I did a joke and it didn't

work, I'd just stare at them for five or ten seconds,

you know? (laughs) And then they wouldn't like me

more.



GM: And that's why you got fired.

NM: And that's why I got fired. (laughs)



GM: Did that affect you? I know you went on talk shows

and made light of it, but did it get you down at all?

NM: No, it didn't affect me at all. I told Lorne

[Michaels] when I got the job, I said I'm just gonna

do what I wanna do and it doesn't matter to me how the

audience reacts. And he was cool with that. I always

think there are two ways you can deal with an

audience. I hate applause, you know? That just wrecks

everything. To me applause means the audience is in

control. Like all you're doing is saying something

they agree with. So you can go, "Pat Buchanan is a

Nazi" and everybody laughs. There's nothing funny

about it. And then they're in control because they're

applauding. They're doing something voluntary, whereas

laughter is involuntary. All they're doing is agreeing

with you. You may as well be a politician or

something.



GM: Although you do see it on the talk shows. With

Letterman's monologue, it's laughter that turns into

applause every single joke. I don't know if they're

telling the audience to do that or not.

NM: Arsenio [Hall] changed all that. Because I

remember the old Letterman show, you could hardly hear

the audience. And it was fine. Especially watching at

home, people applauding - that doesn't do you any

good.



GM: And it's a time waster, too.

NM: It really is. Letterman and Leno now, audiences

are hooting and hollering and they never did before. I

think it was Arsenio that started that and was

probably best at it, you know? And now that's what it

is. It's like a circus atmosphere.



GM: And Ellen is dancing in the audience.

NM: Yeah, they're too audience friendly. On the Johnny

Carson show when I grew up, you never saw the

audience. You just heard them somewhere in the

background.



GM: So if you bomb, it doesn't affect you.

NM: I actually find it kinda funny because comedy is

sort of the unexpected. So if you go up there to make

them laugh and then they don't laugh, that's kind of

funny. And also it really makes me laugh if someone

goes up and is really trying to make people laugh,

which is kind of a noble thing, you know, and they're

really trying and they fail, then the audience hates

them! (laughs) They just hate their guts. They start

yelling at them. It's, like, bizarre because singers

don't get that. They sing and if you don't like them

you just politely kind of go along with it. But you

never hear people screaming and yelling if a guy's

last song was not that good. And that's the other

thing with standup: They can love you for twenty

minutes and then if you go two minutes without a laugh

they can start screaming and yelling at you. It's

funny to me.



GM: I would expect that in a theatre setting like

you'll be here, you won't get that. It's got to be a

different crowd than in a club.

NM: (laughs) I dunno. Are you gonna be there?



GM: I'll be there, yeah.

NM: (laughs) You might see it. I don't know.



GM: Maybe I'll start it.

NM: (laughs) My standup's actually pretty rough, you

know. It's not in any ways mean-spirited or anything

like that. Depending on the night, I can talk about

anything that interests me at the time, you know what

I mean? So I can go on for twenty minutes about

suicide or something, you know? And I didn't realize

this, but people know you from different things, you

know? Somebody could know me from some TV show and

have no idea. They don't know. They could say, "He was

a dog in Dr. Doolittle!", you know what I mean? I

don't know what expectations they come with.



GM: Like these rap groups that have radio-friendly

versions and then parents take their kids to see them.

NM: (laughs) Exactly. I always tell them to put an

advisory at the box office or if they advertise. And

sometimes they don't. Because I don't want kids in the

audience. Although sometimes I do an absolutely clean

show just for fun. And then sometimes I don't.



GM: You hear this a lot, but is working clean harder?

NM: In a sense it is. Like, if you're bad, working

dirty is easier. Because if you're bad, the only

laughs you're going to get are if you shock them or

something like that. But I think if you're good,

working clean is easier because you hit everybody and

you don't offend anybody. I have a lot of respect for

those guys. There's this comedian, Brian Regan, who's

like the funniest guy I've ever seen and he doesn't

say 'darn' hardly. And he's, like, incredible. And

same with Bill Cosby and all these guys. They can

elicit gasping laughter with just completely sanitized

material. But on the other hand, if they're that good,

the dirty material will always be funnier because it's

funnier subject matter. Like, I was talking to

Seinfeld and I said, "You're so great at analyzing.

It's this picayune level of observation, you know,

just the tiniest detail, that if you did sexually

graphic stuff, your observations on it would be

hysterical, you know?" And he said, "Yeah, yeah, I

always think of great jokes for that but people would

never accept it from me."



GM: Is that a case where he's worrying too much of

what the audience thinks? Should he just go with what

he wants to do? Maybe he'd find new fans.

NM: He certainly has nothing to lose. But I would love

to hear him talk about his observations. His

observations are so great [that] his observations on

sexuality and stuff would be hysterical, too. Why

limit yourself to socks?



GM: You have a few websites devoted to you.

NM: Really?



GM: You've never done a search?

NM: No, I'm no good at the computer at all. I just

know how to get onto poker. I'm putting out a comedy

album and they said, "You've got to get this all over

your website." And I'm like, "I don't have a website."

"You gotta get one, you gotta get one." So I guess I

have to get one.



GM: Just give it to these other ones. They have

everything about you. They have transcripts from your

appearances on talk shows, they have forums where

people talk about you.

NM: That sounds creepy.



GM: When's your CD coming out?

NM: It's coming out in April.



GM: Excellent.

NM: Yeah, it's gonna be great. It took me ten years to

do it.



GM: And it's live, I take it.

NM: No, it's not live. It's like sketches. It's like

Bob & Ray and Cheech & Chong.



GM: I love Bob & Ray.

NM: Yeah, they're my favourite. I had all this audio

of them and now I'm trying to find CD's of them and I

can't find them anywhere. Oh my God, they were funny.



GM: So you're acting on the CD with other people.

NM: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I just got buddies of mine to do

it. Like Will Ferrell did a bit with me, and Molly

Shannon did a bit with me, and the sportscaster Jim

Lampley did a bit with me. And different guys.



GM: Why are you against learning about computers?

NM: For some retarded reason I never thought computers

would catch on. But now it's to such a point that

other people are talking about it and I'm so far

behind I think I would have to get a guy to teach me

from scratch, you know? People are talking in such

advance terms. I have my computer so that when it goes

down I have to get my buddies in and then they're

talking to each other. I don't know how they know it.

They use all these words. I'm gonna work on it.



GM: As long as you have friends who know about them,

you can just call them up.

NM: Yeah, exactly. Fortunately I don't type. I just

write everything.



GM: Longhand?

NM: Yeah, I never liked typing. I write everything

longhand. And then I hire a kid to type it out

(laughs). Because they don't want to see a movie

written on a yellow legal pad.



GM: All right.

NM: Is this going to work?



GM: No.

NM: Are you going to be able to write something from

all this nonsense?



GM: I don't think so. No, I'm an old pro at this. I'll

be able to scratch something together.

NM: Feel free to make up stuff if you want.



GM: Could I? Thanks.

NM: (laughing) If it makes me sound good.



GM: No, I won't have to. It'll be good.

NM: It's not going to be like, "Seinfeld sucks!"



GM: (laughs) Yeah, but it's in Vancouver. He won't see

it. Don't worry.

NM: (laughs)... You're Guy MacPherson?



GM: That's me.

NM: That's a great Canadian name.



GM: Yes, French and Scottish.

NM: So it's Ghee MacPherson.



GM: Well, no. My mom was from France but it's always

been Guy.

NM: Oh, your mom was from France? So she has the cool

accent.



GM: I never noticed that she had an accent because she

moved here when she was 11 or 12.

NM: When I was in Quebec, the French-Canadian accent

was always to me the funniest accent of all time. It's

hysterical. Every show I've been on, I've gone, "Let's

get a French-Canadian accent. They're the funniest

accent." And you hardly ever see them. The only one I

think I've seen was in, like, Slapshot. The goalie was

French-Canadian.



GM: A lot of times when an American tries to do a

French Canadian, it just sounds Parisian.

NM: No, I don't like the Parisian accent. It's

beautiful, but it's not funny. You've never seen

Slapshot?



GM: No, you know what? I haven't.

NM: Oh, my God, it's like the funniest movie ever.



GM: I own it, but I've never seen it.

NM: Oh, my God, you've got to see it. Because first of

all, Paul Newman is swearing like crazy and he's a

giant star. And everyone is funny in it. I think the

French Canadian guy, unless he's a fantastic actor, I

think he actually is French Canadian. You gotta watch

Slapshot! Oh my God, you're Canadian. And you like

comedy.



GM: Well, you know what? I also don't like hockey. So

it might be the hockey part I'm averse to.

NM: Yeah, I understand what you mean but there's very

little hockey in it.



GM: Another one that I've never seen is Spinal Tap,

which I also own.

NM: Yeah, I'm not as big a fan of Spinal Tap as

everybody else. It's all right but I don't think it's

the greatest movie ever made.



GM: I'll eventually see both of them.

NM: Did you see Bad Santa?



GM: Yes.

NM: Did you like that?



GM: Yes, I did.

NM: Okay. That's what Slapshot's like. Paul Newman

plays the same kind of character. But it's funnier

than Bad Santa... That'll be good for the interview,

right?



GM: (laughs) Yeah.

NM: That'll make a good article.



GM: Also, the transcripts of interviews I do with

comics I have on a comedy site in Vancouver.

NM: (shouting) The entire transcript of what we just

said?!



GM: Yeah.

NM: Oh my God... Did I say anything bad?



Norm on:

Lorne Elliott: "He must be old."



Tom Green: "That guy's funny!"



Todd Barry: "Oh, I like Todd Barry."



Margaret Cho: "Margaret Cho's hysterical."



Louis CK: "Louis CK's hysterical."



Tommy Chong: "I love Tommy Chong. Just because he got

thrown in jail for smoking pot. And I always feel

sorry for him. Cheech is this fucking giant star and

Tommy Chong's trying to do standup."



Derek Edwards: "Oh, I love Derek."



Andy Kindler: "Oh, I love Andy."



Mike MacDonald: "Did you see him when he was young;

when he was starting? Holy God he was funny! And then

he just made an about-... It was very strange because

him and [Sam] Kinison hung out and everything and I

think he became a born-again Christian or something.

So all of a sudden he was wearing suits and everything

and talking about how you shouldn't have violence

against women and all this weird stuff. Kinison just

blew up, you know, and Mike could have done the same

thing. That rock'n'roll crazy, you know?"



Bob Newhart: "He's the nicest. He told me a hilarious

thing. I was asking him, like, what makes you laugh

and stuff, and he said the funniest thing that he ever

heard, he said he was an accountant in Chicago and he

was just walking down the street and there were two

homeless guys sitting in the gutter beside each other.

And he said he was just walking by and he heard one of

the homeless guys saying to the other homeless guy, he

said, 'When the fuck did you ever play goaltender for

the Montreal Canadiens?!'"



Doug Stanhope: "That guy's nuts! Yeah, he's hilarious.

He's almost a communist. I can't believe what he says.

He'll just say anything."





