Kevin Clark: When a male has a child, the first thing he does is take in the beauty of creation. He stands in awe of the billions of years that have led to this and contemplates the billions of years that might come after it. The second thing that happens is he’s assigned a historical figure to be too into. This week, I was in Massachusetts at a New England Patriots press conference, listening to Bill Belichick talk about game planning when, out of nowhere, in the middle of an answer about the Dallas Cowboys, he started talking about Dwight Eisenhower. Now that is a dad. And as a dad, there’s really only one kind of movie Belichick and his brethren subscribe to: Dad Movies. (Example: In 2015, Belichick revealed the last movie he’d watched was Unbroken, a World War II epic based on a true story, and a film engineered in a lab specifically to appeal to dads.)

Jason, because of the success of Ford v Ferrari, Dad Movies have been a constant topic of conversation in the office. The Matt Damon and Christian Bale instant classic might be the best Dad Movie of the decade. It has all the elements: vaguely aspirational characters who bend the rules, cool cars, a true story, sunglasses, spending some time in Europe but not too much time, and the warped idea that Ford is an underdog despite being one of the largest companies in the world and that Ferrari, a small car company run by one creative genius, is the big bad bully (dads understand this because, like Carroll Shelby, they are the renegade in their large company). But in these conversations it’s become clear that we as a society do not have a clearly defined set of rules by which to distinguish Dad Movies from Not-Dad Movies.

So, my friend, let’s start here: What is a Dad Movie? Does it have to be based on a true story? Can it ever involve fantasy or sci-fi? If it is entirely nonfiction, are there exceptions for Stephen King and Tom Clancy novels? Does there need to be a war? Help us understand what we’re talking about when we talk about Dad Movies.

Jason Concepcion: Fun fact about Ike: During World War II, as he was commanding the allied armed forces, he almost certainly had an affair with his Irish driver Kay Summersby. I mention this because work, and the issues, relationships, and conflicts that happen at work, is an essential element of the Dad Movie.

I think the Dad Movie is about teaching, too. Dads love to impart lessons and they yearn to communicate their values. Unfortunately, dads also hate to talk about their thoughts and feelings. It’s just how they were raised, Kevin. This is the market inefficiency that makes the Dad Movie necessary. That’s why I think a true DM should be based on actual events. When you see Ford v Ferrari with your dad, he wants you to know that he, like Carroll Shelby, never sold out! Sure, Ford Motor Company was the second-largest corporation in the world in 1966, the year the film was set, and yes, Shelby did everything that the C-suite wanted him to do. But he didn’t agree with it!

Additionally, dads instinctively recoil from anything that raises the specter of death and change. Dads reject the strange and the unknown. Therefore, sci-fi and anything dystopian is out; dad doesn’t want to think about a weird, sad future that he’ll never see.

War films, though, are an interesting question. Many dads clearly love them. You made a good point about Dad Movies having just the right amount of Europe. In a DM, the continent plays the role of foil for American Dad values. So, important question, K.C.: Does that mean films set in the European theater of World War II are, therefore, Dad Movies?

Clark: I think there are European World War II movies that get too violent for dads—Fury is a good example of a World War II movie that is not a Dad Movie. I question whether dads even like the best part of that movie, which is Brad Pitt’s haircut, but either way, the violence rules it out. The Great Escape, in many ways, is a prototypical Dad Movie—motorcycles, a so-pissed-off-he’s-breaking-character Steve McQueen, a Richard Attenborough appearance that allows you to remember how much you like his brother’s Planet Earth, outwitting Nazis—it’s all there. We talked offline about Saving Private Ryan and its borderline dadness. Truly, it has all the makings of a Dad Movie but may not be for two reasons: the violence in the incredible D-Day sequence and the flashbacks and flash-forwards featuring an old grandpa. Dads do not want to be confronted with the fact that they are, or are going to be, the old grandpa. However, even with all of this, I think the combination of Spielberg and Hanks, who also collaborated on dad classic Bridge of Spies, tip it in the favor of being a Dad Movie. That’s just too much dad energy to deny. Is Spielberg the top dad director and Hanks the top dad actor?

Concepcion: Hanks is the most iconic Dad Movie actor, no question. Spielberg, meanwhile, has pivoted to father content of late; certainly Lincoln, as you noted in our previous Slack conversation, is an important Dad Movie. However, I think Ron Howard, because he’s worked so frequently with Hanks, may take the crown. That said, something else about Saving Private Ryan bothers me. Can you have flashbacks and flash-forwards in a Dad Movie?

Clark: Great call on Ron Howard, who has made a living adapting heroic nonfiction stories: Apollo 13, In the Heart of the Sea, and Cinderella Man among others. Also, I’ve heard Hanks describe the type of characters he plays as ordinary men put in extraordinary situations. This almost always screams Dad Movie. This is why he’s on a short list of dad greats.

I suppose flashbacks and flash-forwards depend on the context. Forrest Gump is probably a Dad Movie and the whole thing is technically a flashback, although Gump isn’t seen as an old man. Amadeus is a flashback and checks a lot of dad boxes. Too many flashbacks or flash-forwards are a problem for dads. They want to be told a story, not solve a math problem, and this is why Christopher Nolan has never made a Dad Movie. Dunkirk has all the ingredients: World War II, nice-looking boats, sweaters with big collars, a Michael Caine voice-only cameo that allows you to whisper “that’s Michael Caine.” But you’ve lost dad by the time Cillian Murphy is now dry on a boat giving stoic advice despite being plucked out of the water earlier in the film.

Speaking of Dunkirk, Jason, you said earlier that a true Dad Movie must be based on actual events—how far can a Dad Movie get from reality before it’s no longer a Dad Movie at all? Do the Tom Clancy Jack Ryan movies qualify for being plausibly real (well, some of them)? Gladiator is historical fiction. Master and Commander is similarly based off history. Ford v Ferrari makes Lee Iacocca so swole that the entire story might need to be thrown out. So I’m asking: When it comes to real stories, where do we draw the line?

Concepcion: There’s an upper limit to Dad Movies and, as Supreme Court justice Potter Stewart once said, you know it when you see it. Films that appear to have dad-focused content but contain intense action or sex, or are overly suspenseful, or cross into conspiracy territory, or too realistically depict the absurdities and hypocrisies of the human experience, are dad adjacent but are not the true cross.

A good test is: Are there any awkward moments when you watch this with your dad?

So, the (classic) Tom Clancy adapted movies—The Hunt for Red October, Patriot Games, and Clear and Present Danger—are, in my opinion, out. Alec Baldwin is too sleekly handsome in the first (dad doesn’t want body dysmorphia) and the second (IRA assassination nude scene) and third (the U.S. government is complicit in the cocaine trade), respectively, are too violent and a bit too politically malignant.

Gladiator is an interesting case. It’s too violent to be the real thing, but the themes—avenging the family, conflict with a bad boss, sports as a metaphor for life—are dad content. Additionally, dads love ancient Rome. This film, along with Kingdom of Heaven and Master and Commander, crosses into a different genre that we can call, for the time being, Dad Fantasy.

Amadeus does, as you say, check a bunch of boxes (fart jokes, high-functioning binge drinking, unexplained stomach ailments). But there’s also too much Europe.

And I actually think the structure of Forrest Gump is fine as far as dads are concerned. And the historical approach is clearly dadnip. However, the scene when Forrest climaxes five seconds into sexual congress with Jenny eliminates it. Dads don’t want to think about impotence, erectile dysfunction, or premature ejaculation.

I think the Dad Movie guidelines are as follows:

Historically based

Told (for the most part) in a linear fashion

About work, managing, or team building in some form or fashion

Has action but no gore or overly intense or realistic violence. (The Saving Private Ryan test: Are there visible intestines in the movie?)

The dad avatar should be sexually healthy and able to function. He can have high cholesterol, a brain tumor, and so on—but there must be no suggestion that his partner is unsatisfied.

Story imparts something to a dad’s family that words alone cannot

Any notes?

Clark: I think we’re in agreement except on the conspiracy part: JFK is a Dad Movie because it involves the Kennedy assassination conspiracy, which dads love, and Kevin Costner, which dads also love. Also, New Orleans is an absolutely classic dad movie setting. I would add that a good soundtrack can make up for one of these rules being violated. The key to an important soundtrack for dads is popular music that is not too popular. The Beatles or Led Zeppelin don’t hit the wheelhouse—but a lesser-known Bob Seger hit? Motown? Now we’re talking. The Big Chill almost makes it on its music and Kevin Kline alone.

And one more rule: The movie cannot be about being an actual parent. Dads don’t actually want to watch that. But I do agree on the team-building part: Even when it is over the top, and literal team building, like in Remember the Titans, a Dad Movie has to have a scene when everyone smiles because they finally came together. Lessons are learned. Dad loves it.

I wonder a bit, lastly, about the future of Dad Movies: I think there are some great candidates for Dad Movies for our generation. I think I’ll be trying to tell my eventual children about BlacKkKlansman, Ford v Ferrari, and the yet-to-be-released Sam Mendes World War I film, 1917. But I wonder, more than anything, Jason, about the future of the medium: In this age of streaming and miniseries, does a Dad Movie have to be released in theaters? My favorite nonfiction book of all time, The Looming Tower, was made into an underwhelming miniseries. Had it been made in a prior era it would have been there for me in all of its dad glory. I guess my question is: How will Dad Movies change going forward?

Concepcion: You’re dead-on regarding the music, Kevin.

Otherwise, I’m upbeat on the future of the Dad Movie. Superheros and other intellectual property franchises dominate the big screen. That theoretically opens up space for middle-of-the-road fare—not indies but not blockbusters—to thrive. With Netflix and Amazon and Apple throwing money around, I think the Dad Movies are in good shape, at least in the medium term. Now I sound like Sean Fennessey—who loved Ford v Ferrari, by the way!

But OK, now that we’ve settled on the rules, it’s time for us to put them into practice. We asked our colleagues to submit movies to be inducted into this hallowed canon—let’s hear their arguments and respond with our final judgments.

The Nominees

The Shawshank Redemption

Alyssa Bereznak: Dads look for three main things in a movie: An enduring male friendship, a setting that exists apart from complicated technology, and the ability to watch it over and over again on cable TV so they don’t have to worry about missing anything when they doze off on the couch. Shawshank Redemption checks all of those boxes: It follows the unlikely bond between wrongly accused banker Andy Dufresne (Tim Robbins) and contraband smuggler Red (played by dad favorite Morgan Freeman) in a post–World War II era when baseball was still the most popular sport in America and jeans were very, very loose. It also plays about every three hours on TBS. All the things that are important to Dufresne are also important to dads: tax law, the simple pleasure of enjoying a beer after a day of manual labor, and the belief that if you keep your head down and chip away at something for two whole decades, you might just get to retire on a beach in Mexico. Really, if you think about it, the whole movie is just a metaphor for the trials and tribulations of a man who is far more intelligent than his terrible middle manager. I’m also fairly certain that Freeman’s iconic rehabilitation speech is the unofficial anthem for wistful, over-the-hill men: “That kid’s long gone and this old man’s all that’s left.” Pure, uncut dad talk.

The Verdict

Concepcion: 1950s and ’60s New England is certainly a setting that appeals to a segment of the dad community. Ditto the camaraderie. Andy Dufresne does go to work helping the prison guards cheat on their taxes—but he doesn’t manage anyone. And dads find the miscarriage of justice aspect and the depictions of prison violence troubling. And besides “be ready to crawl through shit,” there’s no particular message to impart. It’s a no for me.

Clark: This checks some boxes: Morgan Freeman is a fantastic Dad Movie actor; there’s a lot of Americana thrown in there; there’s a case to be made that all Stephen King material qualifies on a technicality (I can be convinced either way, but I’m saying no for now). But the story isn’t based on any real events, there’s no war, and there’s some very uncomfortable-to-dad scenes. I’m gonna go with a no here. It’s dad … ish.

Rudy

Shea Serrano: Rudy belongs in the Dad Movie Hall of Fame because Rudy features many of the things that dads love. There’s an underdog. There’s defensive-minded football. There’s Charles S. Dutton giving a motivational speech. There’s an explosion in a mill. There are letterman jackets. There’s tradition. There’s a team coming together to go against a coach’s call (this is important because the dad watching gets to watch this part of the movie and go, “My team would never have to go against me like this because I’d have a better understanding of everything and actually it’s me who should be coaching Notre Dame”). There’s Vince Vaughn. There’s good-hearted tomfoolery (but not too much good-hearted tomfoolery). There’s a dad in the movie who clearly loves his son but also makes some obvious mistakes (this is important because the dad watching gets to watch this part of the movie and go, “My child would never be made to feel the way that Rudy is occasionally made to feel because I’d have a better understanding of everything and actually I should be every child’s father in America, the greatest country on earth”). There’s the “I’ve been ready for this my whole life” line, which dads fucking love. And, most importantly, and most fervently, and most emotionally, there’s a son who simply wants to make his father proud. All check marks. All perfect. An instant Hall of Famer.

The Verdict

Clark: I’m docking Shea some points for having the nerve to point out in the initial email that the two people discussing this genre are not dads.

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Concepcion: Yeah. Like, we have dads, dude.

Clark: However, Rudy undoubtedly qualifies: football, a mostly true story, a terrific soundtrack, the 1960s, great jackets, and an underdog who wouldn’t let his critics win. What puts it over the top is that the real Rudy was charged by the Security and Exchange Commission with participating in a pump-and-dump scheme. Dad Movie.

Concepcion: I’m sorry, what did you say? I’m just climbing out of this Rudy Ruettiger-is-a-stock-cheat rabbit hole. Anyway, yeah, agreed. This has it all. Teamwork, the time period, great casting.

Brian’s Song

Kate Knibbs: I’ve always thought of this 1971 football tearjerker as the ultimate Dad Movie because of my own dad’s very high opinion of it. So I figured he should blurb it instead:

Kate, my take on that movie is that for men of a certain age, especially Bears fans, Brian’s Song has it all. At its core it is a “buddy movie” that, for the early ’70s, was open about race and prejudice, with the white, gregarious, wisecracking Brian Piccolo becoming friends with his superstar teammate, the black, shy, humble Gale Sayers. Mix that unique friendship with real football highlights of Gale’s gridiron heroics, and then Brian’s role in pushing Gale to make a comeback from knee surgery, and you have just about a perfect Dad Movie. When you add in the tragedy of Brian battling cancer and dying, his sad, beautiful wife and little children, and you have a buddy, football, inspirational, family, tearjerker movie, all in under 90 minutes. Oh man, when Gale accepts an NFL award and tells the audience something like “Brian Piccolo is sick, very sick” and then chokes up saying, “I love Brian Piccolo ... and I hope you love him, too” there are few American males about my age that won’t immediately have a Pavlovian reaction and tear up …

If Jim Knibbs says it’s the ultimate Dad Movie, it’s the ultimate Dad Movie. 10/10 pairs of khakis!

The Verdict

Concepcion: Wow. Lots and lots of strong dad material here. This is a movie that dads love to talk about with their friends—however, the mortality angle makes it a no.

Clark: This has football, two dad legends in Billy Dee Williams and James Caan, and Dick Butkus playing himself. There’s a lot here. And I have a great deal of respect for Jim Knibbs. However, I think overall, this story is too sad to be a classic Dad Movie. I’m going no here.

Dunkirk

Alison Herman: Stylistic flourishes aside, any movie about a World War II battle is automatically in the Dad Movie Hall of Fame. Add a Kenneth Branagh monologue about the virtues of soldiering on for love of country or whatever and you have yourself a lock. Plus it’s less than two hours long, allowing an early bedtime and/or a double feature with a History Channel documentary about the exact same thing! (Or Atonement, if you want to counterprogram with a Mom Movie.) There’s even a Mark Rylance character who contributes to the war effort without any actual fighting for dads to project themselves onto. Dads definitely don’t know who Harry Styles is, but they do know the exact model of plane Tom Hardy walks away from that’s on fire at the end.

The Verdict

Clark: As discussed above, if told linearly, this would have been a much worse movie to all of us but a much better movie for dads. Tom Hardy flying that plane onto the beach? That’s dad. At his company. Doing whatever he does. As it stands, however, this is not a Dad Movie.

Concepcion: “I wanted to like this.” —Dad

Master and Commander: The Far Side of the World

Kate Halliwell: Nothing says Dad Movie like a rousing maritime battle, and no movie says maritime battle like Master and Commander: The Far Side of the World, based on an equally dad-friendly series of books by Patrick O’Brian. Did you know the battle scenes were shot on full-scale battleship replicas? No? Well good news, my dad is here to tell you all about it. Oh look, here comes a touching scene of dialogue between Russell Crowe and Paul Bettany. Don’t expect to actually hear any of it, though—my dad is too busy telling me how subtle and how expressive this scene is. And how about those Galapagos scenes: History! Darwinism! Obviously the highlight of the film is all the battles, because dads like to feel smart while watching something that, at the end of the day, is about a bunch of exploding boats. Dads also just really love Paul Bettany.

The Verdict

Concepcion: This isn’t a true story, but the storytelling is so immersive that the film feels as if it could have happened. Listen, I don’t know about Napoleanic warfare or tall ships or 18th-century medicine or the Galapagos Islands—maybe this movie is full of shit—but it feels like it knows more than me about those subjects. Two knocks against it: It’s very violent (a child officer gets his arm amputated) and it’s about Europeans. That said, there’s no exposed viscera and continental Europeans are the villains. So, yeah: Dad Movie.

Clark: This is a fictional story but the war and time period are so specific that I’m giving it the nod. It’s real enough and once you get past that, it’s pure dad: Russell Crowe accent work, a ship, bonding, vague rumblings of a franchise that never materialized. I’m in.

Ad Astra

Herman: How can a movie that not just appeals to fathers but is also literally about fathers not be a Dad Movie? (The obvious Dad Astra pun only compounds the case; when the title of your movie is a dad joke in waiting, it’s for dads.) Space movies are already a DM staple, and most dads have a distant memory of enjoying 2001: A Space Odyssey the one time they saw it in college. So while Ad Astra definitely has more existential crises and James Turrell lighting than the typical Dad Movie, it’s absolutely part of the genre. If Brad Pitt getting ruthlessly stonewalled by Tommy Lee Jones doesn’t get them, the majestic self-reliance of Brad literally nuking himself out of space sure will.

The Verdict

Clark: This movie is the literal opposite of Field of Dreams (in many ways the ultimate Dad Movie)—the dad and son are reunited and the dad in Ad Astra does not want to have a catch. This is a non-qualifier; too abstract. The space part of it is not rooted enough in the 1960s. Just a no. Alison’s office is next to mine; I like and respect Alison. It pains me, then, to say this is the second-worst candidate on this list.

Concepcion: A movie about dads and sons isn’t necessarily a Dad Movie. The story—Major Roy McBride travels to the far reaches of the solar system to nuke his workaholic father and has nothing to do but deal with his emotions along the way—is basically a metaphor for therapy, which is a dad-repelling subject. Dads don’t want to think about children hating their parents enough to launch a weapon of mass destruction. Also it’s set in the future. I enjoyed the film, but it’s not a Dad Movie.

Birdman (or the Unexpected Virtue of Ignorance)

Mose Bergmann: Hear me out. It’s about a middle-aged man making a last-ditch effort to escape his midlife crisis with his play, haunted by a version of himself he wishes to escape, dealing with subordinates, former lovers, and a rebellious adult daughter. It’s extremely memorable because it’s based entirely around a gimmick, the one-take movie. I think dads recognize and empathize with Michael Keaton’s meta-journey, going from former star to disgraced maybe-hack trying to prove he’s still got it. Also, it won awards! Dads love being able to like a movie that they identify with that also won Best Picture.

The Verdict

Clark: Hey Mose, no.

Concepcion: What the hell, man. Are you OK?

Miracle

Megan Schuster: Hello friends, esteemed colleagues, and fellow Dad Movie enthusiasts. Here is my pitch for why the 2004 classic film Miracle should be entered into the Dad Movie Hall of Fame. Let me start off by saying: There’s nothing dads like more than owning the Commies. Any film that includes a successful takedown of the Soviet Union or Soviet-related entities is undoubtedly dad canon, and Miracle takes things a step further by doing that through sports. Now, you may argue that sports movies are their own category and don’t qualify for the Dad Movie HOF, but Miracle contains a few aspects that I think place it in this category.

First, it stars Kurt Russell. I mean, that should basically make my case right there. Second, it’s a historical film, and the events in question occur in the recent enough past that most dads probably remember where they were when the U.S. took down the Soviet hockey team at Lake Placid. Walk up to any dad on the street (or at least any fly-over-state dad) and shout “Do you believe in miracles?” and there’s a 10 out of 10 chance they respond “YES!” Lastly, there’s the hockey stuff, which gives dads the minor bit of violence and superiority they crave without delving into the complexities of things like war or geopolitical concerns.

Overall, I believe Miracle to be the quintessential dad flick, and I hope you’ll seriously consider its inclusion into the Dad Movie Hall of Fame. Thank you for your time.

The Verdict

Clark: Yes. Absolutely. Bonus if your dad is older than 60 and has an overly long story about hearing that the U.S. team won before the tape-delayed broadcast. It’s Cold War sports, Kurt Russell, training montages, some great New England accents thrown in. Absolutely great Dad Movie.

Concepcion: Do you believe this is a dad movie? YES.