There was a time when a college coach made news if he took a political stand—and not always welcome news. Think back to Joe Paterno at the 1988 Republican National Convention in New Orleans: "I'll be damned if I'll sit still while people who can't carry George Bush’s shoes ridicule him,” Paterno said. “After a lifetime of being around great competitors, I know a winner, and I know a leader.” The convention crowd ate it up, but back home in Pennsylvania, the Democratic governor took a dimmer view. “If you’re Bear Bryant or Bobby Bowden or Bo Schembechler of course, for a long time the state had a lot of impact on your funding,” says John Bacon, the author of multiple books on the University of Michigan’s football program. “So you certainly did not want to get into state politics as a rule.”

It’s harder these days to keep track of all the legendary names—college and otherwise—mixing it up in the most contentious and unforgiving political arena in memory. Bobby Knight, the surly and argumentative former Indiana University basketball coach, was a favorite surrogate of Donald Trump during the 2016 presidential campaign. Bowden and Lou Holtz, coaching icons themselves, effusively praised Trump throughout the campaign. But active coaches, too, have lost their inhibitions about throwing elbows in the political paint. Duke head coach Mike Krzyzewski, who has tallied the most wins in Division I basketball history, trashed his home state’s controversial bathroom bill as “embarrassing.” He said this while leading the U.S. men’s national team in the Olympics in Rio de Janeiro. Ohio State football coach Urban Meyer appeared alongside Ohio Treasurer Josh Mandel, a frequent Republican candidate for U.S. Senate, in an ad highlighting financial investment accounts for Ohioans with disabilities.


And then there’s Michigan football coach Jim Harbaugh. Harbaugh, 53, whose political star power eclipses even some members of Congress, is one of the few coaches who has sat down one-on-one with President Barack Obama, dropped in for meetings with half of the Supreme Court and slipped into a rally on campus where Obama was stumping for Hillary Clinton. Harbaugh has also said he likes Trump for not being “afraid to fight the establishment.” Last summer, he found himself in hot water for criticizing San Francisco 49ers quarterback Colin Kaepernick for refusing to stand during the national anthem. He later apologized on Twitter.

On February 28, a couple of weeks before President Trump unveiled his budget, Harbaugh took to his favorite platform with a slightly surprising foray into policy and on an issue that would hardly be considered top of mind even for the wonkiest of Washington insiders: legal aid for the poor. He tweeted: “I hope reports that White House trying to defund Legal Services Corp aren't true. LSC is CRUCIAL to making justice system fair. #LSCmatters” Obscure though the cause might have been, the tweet got some attention: 2,400 retweets and twice as many likes.

Harbaugh, it turns out, is a part of the leaders council of the LSC (along with baseball great Hank Aaron). The LSC’s current budget allocation of $385 million funds programs that provide legal aid in civil cases—everything from foreclosures and evictions to child custody and restraining orders against an abusive partner—to over 1.8 million low-income people across the country. Harbaugh got on the phone recently to talk about how he got involved in this cause, where he draws the line for coaches when it comes to political engagement, his go-to quote from the Federalist Papers and what he thinks of being compared to Trump and Obama.

Politico Magazine: Why did you get involved in LSC and what are the consequences of defunding the program?

Jim Harbaugh: I got involved two years ago. Some people say, 'Why is a football coach concerned?' I explained I'm an American first and all Americans should care about justice. The idea, as you learn about our legal system, [is] the danger of not being able to have access to justice. From what I can see it's that, if you have money you have access to justice. If you don't, it's becoming increasingly less and less access for low-income Americans and that's the crux of it. I mean, to have a society that has liberty and justice for all, it's right there in the constitution. And LSC is the largest funder of civil legal aid in our nation.

Politico: Were you approached to do this?

Harbaugh: I was invited to an LSC meeting in Washington, D.C. I've attended it each year for the past two years, that's how I became involved. I also attended a meeting in Atlanta last summer on legal aide in Atlanta. I just educated myself on the critical issues and have looked at some numbers and it's an issue that faces all Americans.

Politico: What was the response to the tweet when you sent it out?

Harbaugh: Mostly positive, varying to some degree of people’s awareness. There's issues that people just don't understand. One of the biggest issues that got me most fired up is how fines and fees are being used to punish the poor. I've learned how the devastating effect it can have on lives of low-income Americans. I mean, across the country 48 states have increased civil court fees since 2010 and they're using those fees to pay for government services and not just courts but roads and generating millions and in some states billions of dollars.

But basically the crux of it is when people can't afford to pay a fine or a fee for things like a speeding ticket or municipal violation then they get additional fees. Late fees can start piling up and these fees can double, triple, quadruple the total amount due and if somebody has an inability to pay that fine that can quickly snowball into a driver's license suspension or driver time. People aren't even able to go to work. So you can't pay a fine or a fee and then you lose your driver's license. You're not able to get to a job, and a lot of people, I mean, they’ve got to work.

Politico: Have you met with President Trump since he became president?

Harbaugh: No, I have not.

Politico: Have you tried pinging Obama also?

Harbaugh: Have I talked to President Obama since the election? Yes, I have.

Politico: Was that about the LSC?

Harbaugh: It was about Michelle Obama's Reach Higher initiative.

Politico: What more do you plan to do as the budget process moves forward? Are you going to follow up at all?

Harbaugh: Yeah … Making people aware of some of these issues is a start. I can hope and I can pray that some of these proposed reductions in funding and even worse elimination won't undercut our nation's civil legal assistance programs and it would threaten our fundamental American commitment of legal justice for all.

Politico: Is there a line you try to walk on political issues? There are other high-profile coaches who have increasingly begun speaking out about politics.

Harbaugh: No, I wouldn't say that. I'm not saying this as a football coach, I'm saying this as an American. I'm for America first.

Politico: Well, that's a Trump slogan right now—America First.

Harbaugh: I wasn't aware of that.

Politico: Yeah, he likes saying that.

Harbaugh: As [James Madison] said in Federalist 51, ‘Justice is the end of government, the end of civil society. It ever has been [and] ever will be pursued until it be obtained or until liberty be lost in the pursuit.’

Politico: Coach, there are other coaches who also have signaled partisan views. Urban Meyer has appeared in that Josh Mandel video. Do you think coaches are becoming more comfortable weighing into policy or political issues these days?

Harbaugh: I don't know. Again, it's not a coaching issue to me. This is an American issue. If I may make a football analogy, we're a team whether we're a football team or community or the United States of America. We are part of a team and I believe the people on that team have a right, but they also have the obligation if there is something that is not good or we don't agree on, to speak about it. And you asked me what I'm doing, I'm speaking about it.

Politico: If you had two minutes with President Trump, what would you say to him on this or anything else?

Harbaugh: What I said in the tweet. I hope that the rumors that LSC is being reduced or there are some rumors that it's going to be defunded, I hope that those rumors are not true. And please, please study this, please look into it and realize that this is a very important issue.

Politico: In the past you've appeared at events for President Obama and Clinton on campus and at times you said you liked that Donald Trump is someone who likes [taking on] the establishment. What do you think of comparison?

Harbaugh: What do I think of those comparisons? I never like those comparisons. I've never liked comparisons. I've really avoided them like the plague. I feel like somebody always gets diminished when you compare two things or two people or two teams. I really try to avoid them and this is a bipartisan issue. This an American issue and as I said it's about justice, and it's essential. It's simple fairness.

Politico: Is there anything in your contract or at the University of Michigan that prevents you from weighing in on political or social media or anywhere else?

Harbaugh: I think it's recommended—I work at a public university—to be apolitical. As I've told you before, this is a bipartisan issue. It's an American issue and I'm allowed to be an American.

This transcript has been edited for length and clarity.