Commodo: I try and avoid it if I’m honest mate… Are we recording? You might have to, before you type it or whatever give it a little edit. I’ve got a big mouth.C: To be honest a lot of people… It pisses me off, you know when people are always saying bollocks about “ohhh take the crowd on a journey” and this and that, it’s like “yeah shut up man you’ve probably played the same set the last three nights”... That’s more or less what I do, I’ll have about thirty or forty tunes or whatever and I’ll just grab out of that. I’m never like “this crowd seems like they're a bit more this genre or that” you know it’s not like that. I think people are just talking shit. Obviously there’s some people, do you know Oneman? Who really do it properly, but most of them? Nah.C: Oh yeah? I’ve never been to one of them, it’s just in a pub isn’t it?C: I’ve never even been down man.C: No I don’t really buy vinyl anymore, it's a funny one, I’ll go into that later, but I just buy the odd bit for sampling really. But I mean not really records to play.C: Oh yeahC: You know that track, 'Northern Soul', I didn't want to put that on there, that was Mala's (Deep Medi label owner) choice.C: See I'm a bit funny like that, I don't really like it man.C: Oh right. You know what it might be? There's a sample in there, don't know what it's from originally but I got it from a Mobb Deep track, I'm pretty sure it's something from a New York train. Comes in on maybe the first snare, just like a stabbing train noise. Wish I'd have found that myself.C: I'm still on Fruity Loops yeah.C: ... That is genuine retard yeah (laughs) It's just whatever works for you really. I mean I've been on FL since I first started about five, six years ago. I bought a Mac to get Logic and I couldn't even do it. I ended up sticking Windows on the Mac so I could get Fruity Loops. I'm just too comfortable with it.C: Yeah it's a brand almost. But not at all, never get told anything like that. When myself and Mala started talking the plan was to put an EP out, but we ended up doing a single first and he said just said 'look, this is a platform for you to develop and just do your thing'. With theEP I'd just say I want to do these tracks and Mala might say 'switch this one out for this' or whatever, but it's never a hard-line stance.C: You mean do I have a brief? Sometimes I do, sometimes not. On the times when I have set out to make something contrived or of a purpose they tend not to work so well. For me the ones that always stick are when it's about four in the morning, I've been trying to finish something all night and I'm exhausted and then something just clicks and I'm like 'oh wait, hang about' and then I'm up until about seven just bashing ideas out. When you don't really give a shit that's when you seem to be most honest.C: That was a local guy, he's moved to London now, called Tom J Newell. Really into his stuff.C: Oh right yeah, what was the last one you bought? I'm interviewing you now.C: Oh nice. Sounds like something Boomkat might sell.C: Grime. In and around 2006 maybe? I doubt anyone else would have known about it but there was a really healthy scene up here then. But it was a proper scene, really insular. At that time no one wanted to know what was going on outside of London really. There were only maybe a couple of emcees from anywhere up here that had any real clout.C: Devilman. That was about it really. So, grime, but I tried all kinds of little bits, this was all while I was learning man. It all sounds shit, the execution is really poor you know but when I listen back I sometimes think 'fuck, how did I think that up?' you know?C: Yeah, it's probably stupid but it's good. So I made grime for a bit, few hip-hop bits. Some really bad drum and bass.C: (Laughs) I don't know man I'm probably not as riled up about all that stuff as you might think. The main reason it doesn't really bother me is I see it as a separate entity. It's just pop music. Electronic pop music. Sort of like a cross-strain really. What does piss me off maybe is it shares the same name as dubstep, although to be honest I try not to label myself as dubstep. I'd be lying to myself really but there's a lot of negative connotations attached to the name these days. I think I probably used to care a bit more about it, when it was a bit closer to home. Like when it was people who very much part of the 'dubstep scene' who were doing noisy music that people stuck in 2006 didn't approve of.C: Yeah. I can't take 5 hours of it though.C: (Laughs)C: For listening to music?B: The tear out style dubstep yeah. I'll put on two tracks and that's about it, then put on an actual album I can sit and listen to all the way through.C: Is that what you do then listen to vinyl?C: Nah I do like it, it's a nice format. When it's fucking there and it's sitting on a platter you're committed. You actually sit and listen to it. Not like you're flicking through iTunes, start a track, get about 30 seconds in, you have a little skim through then you're on to something else.C: Oh absolutely yes. Like I was saying before when you're just on one and it's daft o'clock in the morning just bashing it out, then you go to sleep and come back to it the next day and think 'oh my god what was I thinking?!' When you get too absorbed or too involved you lose sight of what you were aiming for.C: No, and there's a lot of albums of it out there, and I'm not saying anyone in particular, but a lot of them weren't ready to do a full album. They didn't really go about it in what I feel is the right way. It's just a selection of beats. If you are going to do an album, make it an album... Give it a theme or something. Not necessarily a story but personally I like the idea of concept and a concept album.C: Yeah see that was a whole package of an album.C: Yeah that artwork was banging.C: Exactly. Have you heard the Author album? They worked so hard on that and it feels complete as a package, it's coherent. There's a lot of people you find at the minute where it's like a bunch of beats and then to "show their diversity" or whatever there'll be a track with a different tempo. It's just obvious.C: Oh yeah I think I know it actually.C: Yeah you wouldn't. You probably just assumed that was grime? Which I guess it is.C: Yeah it's real elitist. I don't know, people just get really precious about it. It takes some restraint sometimes, but you can't be pissed off with someone for not knowing something. Just because you've had the fortune to have been told about it or stumbled across it. It's not like you invented it or something.C: For sure. I end up listening to a lot of that stuff when I'm digging for samples. Just bits of obscure jazz-funk & prog. You know?C: Yeah, see they're concept albums.C: It's a shame as well, because now that's all part of it. You've got to be on board with all that or you get left behind. I don't use Twitter... Probably should.C: I'm on there, but I've never used it. I made one about six months ago but I haven't touched it.C: Nah not at all, but it's not commercial music. With major labels it would be different. It doesn't really work like mainstream music where a label own all your content within an agreed time or whatever. Stuff just gets chucked out as a single, or an album and that's it. You find it in punk a lot too.C: It is man, I mean, there's pros and cons to it.C: Exactly, you don't get a big fuckoff advance to go buy an M3 or whatever. You're more in control though… how you conduct yourself and go about your business; what you want to do in terms of gigs or publishing, it's completely yours to handle. Whereas say you've got a major behind you, they might say "right we're gonna hook you up with this and that" but then at the same time you will most probably lose some creative control and some geezer is going to be sitting in on your sessions now, and later he's going to rearrange half your fucking songs.C: I'm not really too sure man. I make what I want. I'm not saying I want to move into any area in particular. What would be amazing for me is if I can get to the position where I can make what I want to make and people know about it. Not even like it, just so people can hear it and if they do like it then they have had that opportunity to decide. I know Deep Medi are regarded as kind of classicist dubstep but they are well up for putting out some more diverse stuff, especially more recently.B: Yeah like that last Mensah 12" (The Gambia / Trailing Moons Of Saturn)C: Yeah for sure. Old Apparatus, their stuff too.C: Nice crusty noise. That's the main thing for me, it's not that I hate melody or anything, but when the textures or grooves are right that stuff doesn't have to matter. Like Coki's stuff, you know? It's not very musical. Sometimes it is, sometimes it's melodic like 'Burnin', in that everything is in the right key, there are nice licks and melodies all over the shop and it's all nice. Half the time for me though, just an atonal groove is fine.C: That's cool though because that's probably the most honest place to come from.C: That's what I was gonna say earlier, I didn't know if it was a bit too backhanded, but when I was talking about the stuff I made early on, same as stuff anyone made really early on, it sounds like a fucking lunatic has made it! Someone who has just doesn't care what they're doing, that's almost what I hear when I hear Coki's stuff. Not in a bad way either.C: It's great because it doesn't matter though if you can use them properly. Like Wiley, a ton of Wiley's beats were Fruity Loops presets, and he sculpted a completely original sound out of that. Just because they are presets doesn't mean you can't be original with it. Coki is on a whole different level though. You know when people talk about all this crap being "crazy" or "filthy" or whatever, Coki to me... There's this one tune called, erm, 'Marduk', I don't know if you heard it?C: Yeah that's the one, that to me... It's not like a contrived "crazy", someone consciously trying to make a nutty tune, it's actually just like someone has genuinely lost their shit.C: Even on the other end of the spectrum with words like "deep". What the fuck is that? Such a lazy description of a sound.C: I don't know if you heard it, that last.. I don't even know how you pronounce it, but it's Jamie from Vex'd...C: Yep, that's the one. That's cinematic for you.C: Isn't it?C: Yeah it's got like, juke influence, and these dense snare rushes in there.C: I could see the 80's sci-fi vibe making a comeback a mile off. Almost wish I had done something with it... kinda lame way to think about it though.C: I'll do it if I want to, but I'm not doing it just because it might be popular. But I wouldn't not do for that same reason.C: Jesus yeah. With drums like that you can't really get into a groove. Some stuff is great though. Some of Cluekid's stuff, you can really hear the influence of it in his stuff and that works. More recently DJ Madd has done a couple bits. His last album, there's a couple 140 jungle type bits on there. I can see that coming back as well.C: There you go.C: Definitely. I've not heard his more recent ones.C: That's the one, I haven't heard that.though, I was really into that. Just these one and a half minute sort of sketches really. There was that track 'Basquiat' that was like, just a fucking dirge, I like that tune.C: I've heard of him, not heard the record though. It's kind of like electro meets hip-hop isn't it? Or am I way out with that?C: Best description I heard of Rustie's record was "it's like someone pelting Skittles at you". It's just so full on and colourful.C: That's probably better though in my opinion, not making music. You get really jaded when you're making it you know? You're listening to it purely for what it is when you don't make music. But it depends how into it you are really. Sometimes I'll be listening to something, especially when it's more on a dubstep tip, and I'll be hearing it thinking "that's this, that's how he's done that" and it can sort of ruin it for you I guess. A lot of the time that stuff, technique and production style, can get in the way or influence how much I like something..C: Exactly. I mean, in this case with those examples all the remixes are shit.C: I don't know what they're thinking half the time. Some of them I think it is just a genuine enthusiasm for the original song.C: I think that pisses me off more, all these rappers jumping onboard.C: Half the time as well I don't like rappers rapping on 140, it always sounds really stunted. It's more about the flow than the actual lyrics for me. That's why I rate DOOM so much. His delivery and flow is awesome to me. It's the delivery that sells it. A$AP Rocky is testament to that…C: Yeah, I actually listen to them both quite a lot.. Clams Casino I think is absolutely amazing, that's why I like listening to Rocky.C: I did not see him blowing up at all man. Not at all.B: See his stuff has some strange dubstep feel to it. It's all very airy & spacious beats, a lot of atmosphere. I'm actually a little suspect about just how polished all his free mixtapes were. I wonder if that was all a bit pre-constructed. That had to have some money behind it.C: Yeah that's what kind of confuses me man, all that crowd, like Drake and the Cash Money people, you hear beats on the records they're doing now and there's people like Jamie XX, and there was a Nicki Minaj bit, it was terrible, what was it? 'Stupid Hoe'? Had that dope Hype Williams beat, there's just a massive UK influence to it all. Even The Weeknd stuff, it sounded pretty UK to me. I can't believe that's popular music these days. It was Lurka that introduced me to his stuff. Then I heard he was working with Drake and I was just like "what the fuck?!". I think Drake's a blessing compared to some of the stuff that was floating around in the early 2000's, some criminally bad rap and R'n'B from that era. There's a lot of shit rappers about now, but they've all got such good producers.C: Rick Ross is a plonker man, but you can't fuck with Luger's beats. That's where the money is at, working with shit rappers!