Attritive Profile Joined December 2009 United States 68 Posts #1 I'm interested in finding the latest proleague maps (like Odd-Eye and Ultimatum), and I'm especially interested in ones which are being tested or very recently released. I can't really navigate mapdori.com effectively, except to see a huge list of all maps being used in every league, which is extremely time consuming to utilize and a lot of the time even the map names are in Korean (which I suck at). I didn't find anything on the TL forums dealing with this satisfactorily, so I thought I'd give it a shot with this post.



Also, somewhat in the same line of thought but a bit less likely to be answered: are there any efforts currently being made by non-OMAT map-makers to create competitive, balanced maps? I don't really care about the whole Korean/non-Korean issue, because it's OMAT and not "Korea" making the progamer maps. But I figured there might be at least someone (or some group) making maps other than OMAT, although I've failed to find any sign of this. (Also I don't mean a site like bwmaps.net or whatever it is, or konadora, because however nice the maps from those creators might look, they're far from what I would consider competitive and balanced.)

konadora Profile Blog Joined February 2009 Singapore 50092 Posts #2



http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=106552



also, I never use BWMaps unless it's to take terrain templates



I use intothemap and Mapdori.



Afaik all the maps currently in use are by map makers who have been making maps for PL/OSL/MSL for some time. search "Nate MSL Maps"also, I never use BWMaps unless it's to take terrain templatesI use intothemap and Mapdori.Afaik all the maps currently in use are by map makers who have been making maps for PL/OSL/MSL for some time. POGGERS

Plexa Profile Blog Joined October 2005 Aotearoa 38208 Posts #3 If you're not korean, don't ever expect your maps to get noticed by anyone. It's the sad truth of the matter. Administrator ~ Spirit will set you free ~

konadora Profile Blog Joined February 2009 Singapore 50092 Posts #4 When was the last time a foreign map was used anyway?



Highway star? POGGERS

Attritive Profile Joined December 2009 United States 68 Posts Last Edited: 2010-01-10 04:47:43 #5 On January 10 2010 13:35 Plexa wrote:

If you're not korean, don't ever expect your maps to get noticed by anyone. It's the sad truth of the matter.



I don't know who you're addressing. But I'd imagine that if someone came up with a map as brilliant as Destination, it would be played regardless of the creator's country of origin. If you were talking to me, I'm just trying to find new, high-quality maps, wherever I can find them. I'm not concerned about what maps are being play by progamers necessarily, just the quality and d/l location of maps.



Edit: Thanks konadora. I don't know who you're addressing. But I'd imagine that if someone came up with a map as brilliant as Destination, it would be played regardless of the creator's country of origin. If you were talking to me, I'm just trying to find new, high-quality maps, wherever I can find them. I'm not concerned about what maps are being play by progamers necessarily, just the quality and d/l location of maps.Edit: Thanks konadora.

GTR Profile Blog Joined September 2004 48897 Posts #6 when bill307 was commissioned by itv. Commentator Twitter: @GTR1H

Stream: http://www.twitch.tv/GTR1H

konadora Profile Blog Joined February 2009 Singapore 50092 Posts #7 On January 10 2010 13:46 Attritive wrote:

Show nested quote +

On January 10 2010 13:35 Plexa wrote:

If you're not korean, don't ever expect your maps to get noticed by anyone. It's the sad truth of the matter.



I don't know who you're addressing. But I'd imagine that if someone came up with a map as brilliant as Destination, it would be played regardless of the creator's country of origin. If you were talking to me, I'm just trying to find new, high-quality maps, wherever I can find them. I'm not concerned about what maps are being play by progamers necessarily, just the quality and d/l location of maps.



Edit: Thanks konadora. I don't know who you're addressing. But I'd imagine that if someone came up with a map as brilliant as Destination, it would be played regardless of the creator's country of origin. If you were talking to me, I'm just trying to find new, high-quality maps, wherever I can find them. I'm not concerned about what maps are being play by progamers necessarily, just the quality and d/l location of maps.Edit: Thanks konadora.

The thing is, there are a few good foreign maps out there, but they just can't get the connections and exposure to the Korean community enough to get it recognized and be used. The thing is, therea few good foreign maps out there, but they just can't get the connections and exposure to the Korean community enough to get it recognized and be used. POGGERS

Attritive Profile Joined December 2009 United States 68 Posts #8 On January 10 2010 14:03 konadora wrote:

Show nested quote +

On January 10 2010 13:46 Attritive wrote:

On January 10 2010 13:35 Plexa wrote:

If you're not korean, don't ever expect your maps to get noticed by anyone. It's the sad truth of the matter.



I don't know who you're addressing. But I'd imagine that if someone came up with a map as brilliant as Destination, it would be played regardless of the creator's country of origin. If you were talking to me, I'm just trying to find new, high-quality maps, wherever I can find them. I'm not concerned about what maps are being play by progamers necessarily, just the quality and d/l location of maps.



Edit: Thanks konadora. I don't know who you're addressing. But I'd imagine that if someone came up with a map as brilliant as Destination, it would be played regardless of the creator's country of origin. If you were talking to me, I'm just trying to find new, high-quality maps, wherever I can find them. I'm not concerned about what maps are being play by progamers necessarily, just the quality and d/l location of maps.Edit: Thanks konadora.

The thing is, there are a few good foreign maps out there, but they just can't get the connections and exposure to the Korean community enough to get it recognized and be used. The thing is, therea few good foreign maps out there, but they just can't get the connections and exposure to the Korean community enough to get it recognized and be used.



Where can I find them? Where can I find them?

horang3 Profile Joined November 2009 United States 261 Posts #9 Kondorra you are quite a gentleman. The post puts down your maps and you reply promptly and politely with the correct information. Do great work

fearus Profile Blog Joined December 2003 China 2150 Posts #10 On January 10 2010 13:46 Attritive wrote:

Show nested quote +

On January 10 2010 13:35 Plexa wrote:

If you're not korean, don't ever expect your maps to get noticed by anyone. It's the sad truth of the matter.



I don't know who you're addressing. But I'd imagine that if someone came up with a map as brilliant as Destination, it would be played regardless of the creator's country of origin. If you were talking to me, I'm just trying to find new, high-quality maps, wherever I can find them. I'm not concerned about what maps are being play by progamers necessarily, just the quality and d/l location of maps.



Edit: Thanks konadora. I don't know who you're addressing. But I'd imagine that if someone came up with a map as brilliant as Destination, it would be played regardless of the creator's country of origin. If you were talking to me, I'm just trying to find new, high-quality maps, wherever I can find them. I'm not concerned about what maps are being play by progamers necessarily, just the quality and d/l location of maps.Edit: Thanks konadora.





it has to be noticed first...





good publicity wont save a bad map



but no publiclity will kill even the best of maps it has to be noticed first...good publicity wont save a bad mapbut no publiclity will kill even the best of maps bisu fanboy

blabber Profile Blog Joined June 2007 United States 4380 Posts #11 On January 10 2010 13:36 konadora wrote:

When was the last time a foreign map was used anyway?



Highway star?

maybe Return of the King? It's quite similar to Faoi maybe Return of the King? It's quite similar to Faoi blabberrrrr

Attritive Profile Joined December 2009 United States 68 Posts Last Edited: 2010-01-10 05:18:49 #12 On January 10 2010 14:06 fearus wrote:



it has to be noticed first...





good publicity wont save a bad map



but no publiclity will kill even the best of maps





What map is "it" which needs to be noticed? What are these great maps you're talking about which are being completely overlooked? I want to see them. (Maybe you think I'm being rude or trolling or something, but I genuinely want to know the answers to those questions.)





Edit:

What map is "it" which needs to be noticed? What are these great maps you're talking about which are being completely overlooked? I want to see them. (Maybe you think I'm being rude or trolling or something, but I genuinely want to know the answers to those questions.)Edit: On January 10 2010 14:05 horang3 wrote:

Kondorra you are quite a gentleman. The post puts down your maps and you reply promptly and politely with the correct information.



I didn't put down his maps. The one's I've seen aren't even close to balanced, but they dp have nice design and look great. I've liked his maps before I even saw his posts here (from bwmaps.net).

I didn't put down his maps. The one's I've seen aren't even close to balanced, but they dp have nice design and look great. I've liked his maps before I even saw his posts here (from bwmaps.net).

horang3 Profile Joined November 2009 United States 261 Posts #13 On January 10 2010 14:17 Attritive wrote:

Show nested quote +

On January 10 2010 14:06 fearus wrote:



it has to be noticed first...





good publicity wont save a bad map



but no publiclity will kill even the best of maps





What map is "it" which needs to be noticed? What are these great maps you're talking about which are being completely overlooked? I want to see them. (Maybe you think I'm being rude or trolling or something, but I genuinely want to know the answers to those questions.)





Edit:

Show nested quote +

On January 10 2010 14:05 horang3 wrote:

Kondorra you are quite a gentleman. The post puts down your maps and you reply promptly and politely with the correct information.



I didn't put down his maps. The one's I've seen aren't even close to balanced, but they dp have nice design and look great. I've liked his maps before I even saw his posts here (from bwmaps.net).

What map is "it" which needs to be noticed? What are these great maps you're talking about which are being completely overlooked? I want to see them. (Maybe you think I'm being rude or trolling or something, but I genuinely want to know the answers to those questions.)Edit:I didn't put down his maps. The one's I've seen aren't even close to balanced, but they dp have nice design and look great. I've liked his maps before I even saw his posts here (from bwmaps.net).

: ) You weren't rude or anything, sorry if it came out like I was accusing you. : ) You weren't rude or anything, sorry if it came out like I was accusing you. Do great work

konadora Profile Blog Joined February 2009 Singapore 50092 Posts #14 On January 10 2010 14:16 blabber wrote:

Show nested quote +

On January 10 2010 13:36 konadora wrote:

When was the last time a foreign map was used anyway?



Highway star?

maybe Return of the King? It's quite similar to Faoi maybe Return of the King? It's quite similar to Faoi

wasn't RotK by Rose.of.Dream?



And iirc Faoi wasn't used in korean leagues? wasn't RotK by Rose.of.Dream?And iirc Faoi wasn't used in korean leagues? POGGERS

Attritive Profile Joined December 2009 United States 68 Posts #15 I was just clarifying that I like what I've seen from him on TL (and when I said I liked him before I saw his maps here, I was mistakenly thinking of another poster on BWMaps.net. Sorry, konadora. I still like the ones I've seen from you here though).



I didn't intend to insult him or act like his maps are trash or something, I just am thinking in terms of very high standards. But I agree, he could have easily turned typical forum poster and flamed me, so kudos to him for acting mature.

Infested Terran Profile Blog Joined December 2009 80 Posts Last Edited: 2010-01-10 07:52:54 #16 The sad truth is that the only way to popularize a map made by a non-korean, is to request the iccup admins to make it their map-of-the-week. It can receive some (minimal) popularity, because some players might play it thinking that it is a korean map. I think iccup (or was it pgt?) team used to pick promising maps from time to time; but then they stopped. Perhaps due to the fact that most of the maps were played like 30-100 times during a whole season, despite being MOTW. I dont understand why players would ignore them; I read that Koreans ignore all non-pro maps, "beause it's a waste of time". (as if the average C- Korean could ever become a pro...) and everyone esle ignores the maps because "korean pros dont play them" (as if the average C- player could play vs A Koreans...). It's also easy to criticize.. I havent tried half of the maps from the mappack I think; simply no time.

I have requested the iccup team to include blood bath twilight in the map rooster, but my threads always got closed and received 0 support (although there were few other people who wanted blood bath in the map rooster). With blood bath, however, the problem is that there are few verions of the map, and everyone seems to support their "own" one (few people from tl.net made their own versions, which in my opinion are completely terrible).



As for Korean, it is pretty sad that they cant make some simple English versions of their websites, or at least give the ability to search through them easily... it has been this way for years. Dont expect much from them, they ignore "foreigners" more and more - their new maps dont even receive English names - some of translations were made by Korean TL.net posters LOL (wuthering hights for example).

I also wouldnt overestimate the mapmaking skills of Koreans; as they are years behind staredit.net and make pretty plain maps without any nice graphical effects. They dont know doodad stacking and dont really use square titles to "draw" nice things. As for the balance.. many of the maps were pretty poor.



btw. Has anyone noticed that the "popular" maps, are getting worse and worse? They allow follow the same concept - each map consists of 4 parts, which are: main base +natural expansion + one more expansion near the previous two. Colosseum, Fighting spirit and the worst of this kind - God's garden; are so boring to play. There are no islands; nor no "additional" expos.

I know that everyone hates python, but it allows a lot of variety at least, due to the existence of central and corner expos... which allow one to make a hidden base, or more drop-oriented play style. These plain maps are especially bad in 2v2, where sometimes it looks like world war 1 with every player hidden in his own corner of the map.



I am strong, I am zerg, I am the future!

alffla Profile Blog Joined November 2005 Hong Kong 20296 Posts #17 On January 10 2010 14:24 konadora wrote:

Show nested quote +

On January 10 2010 14:16 blabber wrote:

On January 10 2010 13:36 konadora wrote:

When was the last time a foreign map was used anyway?



Highway star?

maybe Return of the King? It's quite similar to Faoi maybe Return of the King? It's quite similar to Faoi

wasn't RotK by Rose.of.Dream?



And iirc Faoi wasn't used in korean leagues? wasn't RotK by Rose.of.Dream?And iirc Faoi wasn't used in korean leagues?



wtf Faoi used in a KOREAN league? LOL



it wasn't even used in TSL why would it be used in a korean league >_> wtf Faoi used in a KOREAN league? LOLit wasn't even used in TSL why would it be used in a korean league >_> Graphics savior[gm] : What is a “yawn” rape ;; Masumune - It was the year of the pig for those fucking defilers. Chill - A clinic you say? okum: SC without Korean yelling is like porn without sex. konamix: HAPPY BIRTHDAY MOMMY!

FusionCutter Profile Joined October 2004 Canada 973 Posts #18 The foreigner scene should vote on a good foreigner map. Then start mass playing games on bnet with it. Then the Koreans will notice.

Pyrrhuloxia Profile Blog Joined May 2008 United States 6697 Posts #19 There aren't going to be people playing a lot of non-pro maps because good players won't waste their time since other good players aren't playing them and they aren't used in any competitive tournaments. No competitive tournaments will pick them because they can't know if they are balanced until good players play them a bunch.



Even getting into the Iccup map pool doesn't help. I checked the map stats earlier today:



HBR 2.1: Over 90,000 games this season.

Voices IV: Exactly 8 games this season.



Iccup could make a foreigner map of the month and some players up to maybe C or low B might try it maybe not.

Pyrrhuloxia Profile Blog Joined May 2008 United States 6697 Posts #20 On January 10 2010 14:24 konadora wrote:

Show nested quote +

On January 10 2010 14:16 blabber wrote:

On January 10 2010 13:36 konadora wrote:

When was the last time a foreign map was used anyway?



Highway star?

maybe Return of the King? It's quite similar to Faoi maybe Return of the King? It's quite similar to Faoi

wasn't RotK by Rose.of.Dream?



And iirc Faoi wasn't used in korean leagues? wasn't RotK by Rose.of.Dream?And iirc Faoi wasn't used in korean leagues?

And aren't they quite a bit different? There's sort of a similar shape in the middle but Faoi has islands and RotK doesn't; also, RotK has ramps instead of same level terrain I think. And aren't they quite a bit different? There's sort of a similar shape in the middle but Faoi has islands and RotK doesn't; also, RotK has ramps instead of same level terrain I think.

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