You say that ARCHE was a tough album to make.

Creating albums is always tough but this album had a different kind of difficulty than usual. It was difficult to see how it would all come together in the end.

So you were thinking about it all day even after you’d returned home from the studio?

No, recently I’ve been trying not to think about work all the time. I used to be always thinking about it; I couldn’t get away from it. I had an overview of everything but I couldn’t see, so now when I get home I listen once to what I did that day and then I try to forget about it. If I happen to think up a phrase or anything then I’ll say like “Ahh” into my iPhone and record it (laughs.)

That’s primitive (laughs.)

Then when I listen to it the next day I’ll think: “Oh yeah I thought that up.”

So when you get home you separate yourself completely from the band?

I’ll watch TV shows I’ve recorded or movies… But of course I can’t completely separate myself from the band. It’s always somewhere in my mind. I’ll think “isn’t there still something to do?” But often in the past when I’d always be thinking about it I wouldn’t be able to think up anything anyway.

You were more excessive in the past?

Yeah. But recently I’ve come to the point where I’m able to think “Even if there’s something else I could do there’s nothing more than this.”

I see. How is this album for you, personally?

This time… I didn’t think further than “It’s okay even if I could still go further.” It’s that kind of album. I don’t think it’s a work that’s perfect or has no room for improvement.

You said the same thing in your previous interview. In the past you thought about albums more but this time you actually tried not to.

That’s right. Normally even if I’m told “Isn’t it perfect already?” I’ll reply like “No, I want to think about it a bit more.” But this time I tried to just be like “It’s okay like this.”

So that’s in your nature?

Yeah. I’m indecisive… Right up to the bitter end (laughs.) I can’t decide definitively.

Even outside of music?

I’m more just like “whatever” outside of music (laughs.) Even though I seem pretty proper, I’m actually not. If there’s a piece of clothing, etc., that I like, then I could wear the same thing for half a year, and I don’t do things like properly lay out a meal before I eat. So I’ll inevitably become like that regarding music, or rather Dir en grey.

You’re only different when it comes to the band.

Yeah, and particularly when it comes to writing songs, for example, things like concerts and music videos are worked on by many people and I don’t know how far you have to go to make it perfect. So I entrust that stuff to other people, but I’m able to create songs mostly by myself right up to the end. Of course I also get other people’s help while writing songs, but compared to concerts, etc., it’s only a few people, and it’s easy for me to control. So that’s why I work on it right to the end.

Why are you so particular about it?

Well, what I can say simply is that I want to enjoy it. I just want to be happy that I’ve created something really cool. Speaking plainly, that’s all I’m aiming for. I don’t want to make something that’s like “I couldn’t make something good.” That’s why I never want to cut corners and am always thinking “Isn’t there more I could do?”

In the last volume all you were saying was “Can’t I still do more?” (laughs.)

Hahaha. But that’s what I’m like.

Have you always been that kind of person?

I don’t think I was like this until Dir en grey began. It was… maybe from around the time of VULGAR.

Nearly 10 years ago. That was a period in which Dir en grey was trying to change a lot, like you were stretching yourselves.

That’s right. If we just continued doing the same things we’ve been doing up until now then I felt that the band would end up just trying to preserve itself, and I didn’t want that. I didn’t think there was any meaning in creating songs that can be easily made just like “If I do this it will become like this.”

So you were struggling?

Of course there is also goodness to songs that come about naturally. But in my case I only half accept that…

You still feel like you could do more.

Yeah because I still feel like that. If Dir en grey continues for another 10 years maybe I’ll begin to think like “Isn’t this good enough?” but… if that happened then there would only be a short time between releases.

Please become like that soon then! (Laughs.)

Hahahaha! That would be impossible for me at the moment. That is how large the existence of Dir en grey is to me. I want to make things far beyond the expectations of our listeners and the people waiting for us. I want to make things they will think are amazing.

I see. So you’re motivated by appealing to people?

Yeah. But that’s the same even now. I like hearing “wow! They’ve made something amazing again.” And of course I like the sound of “Yes yes yes, I see.” I like “This is good for these people”, but my favourite thing is when people are like wow!! When they hear our songs. So I’m always searching for that.

So you struggle because you always want to make things like that?

Yeah… But I think I probably like it.

What?

The act of thinking itself (laughs.)

Hahahaha. I guess that’s right.

I simply like it. I understand that about myself, and that work gets tough because of it (laughs.) For example, when I’m thinking about songs that’s truly all I am capable of doing; even when I’m supposed to be thinking about my performance for a tour I’ll just be like “I can’t think about that right now.”

How long have you been in a band for? (Laughs.)

I don’t know (laughs.)

Isn’t it tough to continue playing in a band like that? No matter how much you say you like thinking or worrying.

Yeah it is.

Not helping with anything else, delaying releases, causing trouble to those around you, these must create some difficulties in your relationships with the other members. Since Dir en grey has been going for so long, I think you have the time to change direction. Without that you wouldn’t be able to see the future. Somewhere along the line you’d be divided or give up. So I think that this album was a necessary work for Dir en grey to continue on. What do you think?

Well… um… Well, the atmosphere in the band hasn’t really changed.

It hasn’t changed?

For example… When we get an offer to play at an event we never say “Let’s do it!” straight away. We don’t make prompt decisions; we think over a lot of things together. Also, for example, if a magazine is being published and they want us to appear in it we will only reply after thinking carefully about things like what kind of people are making the magazine, what kind of people appear in it, and what kind of people will read it. That aspect of us hasn’t changed.

I see. So you are responsible for this part of the band’s nature?

We’re a band who by nature doesn’t like to be like anyone else and we always want to do things only we can do.

The albums you arrived at from that feeling are UROBOROS and DUM SPIRO SPERO, the results of you always searching for things only Dir en grey can do.

Of course that’s right. So I probably like thinking and like making things in that way… But more than that, I don’t want to do the same things as others. Because if everyone were like “Let’s go here,” I’d reply “Then I’m going in the opposite direction.” Or “If we have to go that way then I’m gonna go like this.”

Are you really such a rebellious kind of person?

Probably; I’ve already talked about this in the latest fan club magazine, but I don’t have a driver’s license, probably because I’d cause traffic accidents if I did (laughs.)

Why? (Laughs)

Probably because I do things you’re not supposed to do, or I want to try doing them. So you can imagine if I drove… Part of me would want to go the wrong way, etc. Well, because of how old I am now I might be okay to drive, but in the past I thought driving would have definitely turned out bad.

You don’t really give the impression of a risky person.

I’m not usually reckless, but there’s a part of me that is like that. I think that’s probably why I’m in a band. I’ve always really hated being told what to do. Also, when I started playing in bands, and started Dir en grey, when I was told things by the office or the record label etc., I’d think why the hell do I have to do so much of what other people tell me to do?

Hahahahaha.

There was a time I was really unsatisfied because I’d joined a band precisely because I didn’t want to be told such things. Normally I’d say to the company head TOMMY “Wouldn’t you be annoyed if you were told these kinds of things?” and he’d reply “that may be so but my position requires me to say such things.” Then I’d be like “Even so, I hate it.” (Laughs)

So you argued (laughs.) But you don’t give the impression of not listening to or accepting what others say, and you’re not selfish at all.

Selfish… ah, no, I’m not selfish.

If feels like you lend an ear to what people say, and even if you’re told no you can properly grasp the reason, and you’re not unmanageable.



Yeah I’m not. But speaking in regard to Dir en grey, I’ve only been able to accept things and be flexible in the past six, seven years. Up until then a part of me always rebelled against everything.

Ah okay, so that part still exists somewhere inside you.

Yeah. I still have moments like that.

Scary (laughs.)

Hahahahaha! So in the past Dir en grey had that kind of feeling. Even when talking to other members we’d be like “I’m not doing that!” In the midst of that it was gradually only me who took on the role to say things like “let’s just listen to what he has to say,” and, “wouldn’t it be interesting if we changed how we thought about it?”

Even though that wasn’t your true nature?

Yes. In the beginning the band didn’t have a leader because I said “Let’s not have a leader, because otherwise I’ll be forced to be it.” (Laughs)

You said that yourself? Hahahaha!

Because I wanted to be free and uncontrolled. Rather than being in the centre, I wanted to be on the side saying isn’t this kind of thing good too? Which is why I didn’t become the leader. But in the end the band wasn’t going to progress if I stayed like that so it was like “Okay, I understand.”

I’ve finally come to understand you (laughs.) In other words you can’t get rid of your fussiness in song creation precisely because it’s not originally in your nature to arrange or organize the band. That’s it, right?

Maybe. Even though I’m the leader there’s times I just rush ahead. So… I think it’s turned out like this from me just doing as much as I can. But even though I’m the leader I don’t really act like the leader. I’m just like the moderator for when we get together to talk and decide things.

What’s it like being like the band’s moderator?

…Not that interesting (laughs.)

Hahahaha! From talking to you today I get the feeling that there’s both a part of you that fights against your nature, and also a part that accepts it as being you.

Hmm… Yeah.

So to sum it up… you’re an unreasonably stubborn guy (laughs.)



Hahahaha! Yeah, I’m unreasonably stubborn. There’s no doubt about that… But some part of me acknowledges it, and understands it, so I become like that.

The part of you that understands?

If I don’t act so unreasonably stubborn then I won’t proceed forward. In other words, I think it’s because as usual I don’t have self confidence. I accept that that is who I am. So I’m always thinking “Isn’t there still something else?” “Can’t I do more?”

Does that become your driving force to make more albums?

It undoubtedly does; and for this album in particular. I think that it’s good if I’m in the only one in the band who thinks like this.





Thank you to worthlesswarrior for the scans.

