

KrK

Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy

Premium Member

join:2000-01-17

Tulsa, OK Netgear WNDR3700v2

Zoom 5341J

1 recommendation KrK Premium Member AOL Software Didn't that old AOL software specifically try to avoid that scenario? I think I remember AOL software looking around for local numbers and then warning you if had to use a LD number. I'm betting this is likely related to 1) Old AOL software and 2) the change where you no longer have to dial "1+" to call long distance.

Kearnstd

Space Elf

Premium Member

join:2002-01-22

Mullica Hill, NJ 3 recommendations Kearnstd Premium Member Re: AOL Software combine that with what I imagine still exists for land line carriers... "In State Long Distance" I have heard stories of people having simple phone plans(something common with the elderly trying to save money on a fixed income) getting smacked with LD charges to call across town.



Sometimes the way the exchanges are setup people have even had LD charges to call the other end of the neighborhood.



Keep in mind In State Long Distance has never been anything other than a cash grab.



bockbock

@hcs.net bockbock Anon Re: AOL Software said by Kearnstd: Keep in mind In State Long Distance has never been anything other than a cash grab. Yes, especially when calling (literally) one county away because it happens to in another area code.



thedragonmas

Premium Member

join:2007-12-28

Albany, GA ·VOIPO

Netgear R6300 v2

ARRIS SB6180

thedragonmas Premium Member Re: AOL Software said by bockbock : said by Kearnstd: Keep in mind In State Long Distance has never been anything other than a cash grab. Yes, especially when calling (literally) one county away because it happens to in another area code.



i actually had to use AOL dialup when we moved from one side of town to the other, as at&t told us before we moved that yeah sure, DSL is available, will transfer it. only to discover after that fact. NOPE! paper/cloth insulated lines and a weird neighborhood "loop" setup, (i shoulda known when i found FM filters on the phone jacks!)



so between then and the time i could get cable, i had to use AOL dialup for about 2 months. the first thing the software does is call a 1-800 number to get a list of local numbers based on your area code. it all ways listed locals FIRST, long distance numbers where marked very clearly as "possible long distance charges"



this computer im on actually doesnt have a dialup modem so i cant go through and grab screen shots. im betting this guy had a connection error, got thrown off. and some how managed to go in to the connection manager to create a new connection, and for some reason went with long distance.



still, at&t should have noticed the spike. in fact i dont see why they dont have a cap to then block long distance until you call in. oh wait, yes i do. $$$$$ it didnt even have to have another area code, dig out a phone book (why do they still make these?) and in the front was a map and prefix list, when we had basic phone service (with a lifeline credit) we had no long distance, at all. in fact we specifically had it blocked. if you called the immediate area it was local, however if you called just one more county over it was long distance. and in some cases a prefix with in a county that was local, was still considered long distance.i actually had to use AOL dialup when we moved from one side of town to the other, as at&t told us before we moved that yeah sure, DSL is available, will transfer it. only to discover after that fact. NOPE! paper/cloth insulated lines and a weird neighborhood "loop" setup, (i shoulda known when i found FM filters on the phone jacks!)so between then and the time i could get cable, i had to use AOL dialup for about 2 months. the first thing the software does is call a 1-800 number to get a list of local numbers based on your area code. it all ways listed locals FIRST, long distance numbers where marked very clearly as "possible long distance charges"this computer im on actually doesnt have a dialup modem so i cant go through and grab screen shots. im betting this guy had a connection error, got thrown off. and some how managed to go in to the connection manager to create a new connection, and for some reason went with long distance.still, at&t should have noticed the spike. in fact i dont see why they dont have a cap to then block long distance until you call in. oh wait, yes i do. $$$$$



KrK

Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy

Premium Member

join:2000-01-17

Tulsa, OK Netgear WNDR3700v2

Zoom 5341J

KrK Premium Member Re: AOL Software



Paying $51 a month for dial-up AOL outta be a crime by itself. Agreed. Definitely unintentional and unaware of what happened. Luckily at&t didn't try and come after him for the charges.Paying $51 a month for dial-up AOL outta be a crime by itself.



cork1958

Cork

Premium Member

join:2000-02-26 cork1958 Premium Member Re: AOL Software said by KrK: Paying $51 a month for dial-up AOL outta be a crime by itself



I actually had a computer here a couple weeks ago that has to use an external usb dial up adapter. That person lives in the woods (BFE) and AOL is all they can get. Their old adapter went bad and girl didn't know how to get new one working.



Once I got it working, which was as simple as pie, and tried surfing, which was NOT as simple as pie, I disconnected from that crap! Hadn't even seen a dial up connection in years. Hard to believe that it was that slow!



Also, yes, the AOL software definitely let's you know if the number you're calling is local or not. The guy isn't paying $51 for AOL dial up. He's paying for the AT&T land line to use AOL!I actually had a computer here a couple weeks ago that has to use an external usb dial up adapter. That person lives in the woods (BFE) and AOL is all they can get. Their old adapter went bad and girl didn't know how to get new one working.Once I got it working, which was as simple as pie, and tried surfing, which was NOT as simple as pie, I disconnected from that crap! Hadn't even seen a dial up connection in years. Hard to believe that it was that slow!Also, yes, the AOL software definitely let's you know if the number you're calling is local or not.



chip89

Premium Member

join:2012-07-05

Columbia Station, OH chip89 to KrK

Premium Member to KrK

51 dollars for a pots line is crazy!



maxbrando

Premium Member

join:2014-06-01 maxbrando Premium Member Re: AOL Software said by chip89: 51 dollars for a pots line is crazy! Especially for a POTS line without long distance.



Hmm

@rr.com Hmm to bockbock

Anon to bockbock

and your neighbor having a different area code. Try the same cityand your neighbor having a different area code.



Anon

@sbcglobal.net Anon to Kearnstd

Anon to Kearnstd

AT&T will happily make you pay long distances even on phone numbers called from a land-line phone in the SAME AREA CODE.



They'll claim some sort of local toll charge, but we all know it's just fraud... They tell you to call 411 to verify the #, but they'll happily tack on an extra fee for using 411. They'll just screw you over with countless charges. Where's the FCC? I know where, they are in their back pockets..



thedragonmas

Premium Member

join:2007-12-28

Albany, GA ·VOIPO

Netgear R6300 v2

ARRIS SB6180

thedragonmas Premium Member Re: AOL Software said by ISurfTooMuch: What has me stumped is how he could have racked up that big a bill in a month. There really shouldn't have been a lag in LD billing on domestic toll calls, so he should have been getting monthly bills for this, and, even if he was connected 24x7, he couldn't have gotten charged that much unless he was paying international rates. At $0.25 a minute, his monthly bill would have been $10,800. Extremely high, but it's still far less than what he was charged.



Maybe he actually WAS making an international call. That would explain the extremely high bill, and it would also explain how he got hit with it all at once. Could his software have gotten configured to dial a number in Canada, or could he have been infected by one of those dialers that calls a toll number in Africa? Are those things even around anymore?



even so, my math shows 40 days of continuous use at that rate to equal ~$24k EDIT: my bad, this was a reply toassuming he did not have a LD plan at all, its $0.48/min » www.serviceguide.att.com ··· menu=101 i forget the exact term used, but even if you dont have a long distance plan, you are billed for long distance usually at a much MUCH higher rate than if you had a plan. this is the "default rate" your charged if your on att and dont have a plan.even so, my math shows 40 days of continuous use at that rate to equal ~$24k

WhatNow

Premium Member

join:2009-05-06

Charlotte, NC WhatNow to Anon

Premium Member to Anon

The area code has nothing to do with long distance charges. The exchanges the 3 digits after the area code determine the if it local or long distance. In many of the largest cities like NY city when they run out of numbers in the first area code they create a second area code.



When I was growing up my parents built a house on the border of an independent telephone company. On the other side of the barbwire fence was the Southern Bell exchange. We thought we had free LD into the SB exchange but we were paying for it in our regular bill. Our 4 party line in the independent exchange was more then a single party line with Southern Bell. If we had a heavy dew the phone went out.



I don't know why they still have LD. You can call anywhere in the US on a wireless phone.



DaveDude

No Fear

join:1999-09-01

New Jersey DaveDude to Kearnstd

Member to Kearnstd

That actually happened to me in 1998, i was dialing across town to another area code. My town has 3 area codes. So MCI gave me some lame excuse that it was long distance.

i filed a complaint with 3 state agencies and dropped MCI. I didnt have to pay.



Flyonthewall

@teksavvy.com Flyonthewall to Kearnstd

Anon to Kearnstd

Move to Europe sometime. It's worse.

openbox9

Premium Member

join:2004-01-26

71144 openbox9 Premium Member Re: AOL Software It's just metered. Not a big deal. Actually, fixed line to fixed line is increasingly flat rate. It's calling mobile from a fixed line that gets crazy.

moes

Premium Member

join:2009-11-15

Cedar City, UT moes to Kearnstd

Premium Member to Kearnstd

our is like that, trying to call from Indianapolis to stilesville back home in indy, same area code mind you, but have to dial a 1 or 0, when calling this number... really....

ISurfTooMuch

join:2007-04-23

Tuscaloosa, AL ISurfTooMuch to KrK

Member to KrK

It would try to find a local number, but, if he moved and didn't update his location, what was once a local call could have turned into a LD call. As I recall, LA has had 10-digit dialing for a while, so he could have originally been in an area where the call was local, but then he may have moved to an area where that number was LD. Either that, or the computer was originally configured by a relative at their house, then they brought it to his but didn't update its location, so the computer kept dialing into the original POP, which was now a LD call.



KrK

Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy

Premium Member

join:2000-01-17

Tulsa, OK Netgear WNDR3700v2

Zoom 5341J

KrK Premium Member Re: AOL Software Yeah, we really don't have much to go on, just speculation. All we really know is he's used AOL for years on dial-up, and then for some reason started calling long distance and racked up a huge bill, obviously unaware of the issue. I would think if he changed locations he'd know about that issue, however.



I'm suspecting he's at the same home, and something else happened, but in reality, we have no way of knowing.

ISurfTooMuch

join:2007-04-23

Tuscaloosa, AL ISurfTooMuch Member Re: AOL Software What has me stumped is how he could have racked up that big a bill in a month. There really shouldn't have been a lag in LD billing on domestic toll calls, so he should have been getting monthly bills for this, and, even if he was connected 24x7, he couldn't have gotten charged that much unless he was paying international rates. At $0.25 a minute, his monthly bill would have been $10,800. Extremely high, but it's still far less than what he was charged.



Maybe he actually WAS making an international call. That would explain the extremely high bill, and it would also explain how he got hit with it all at once. Could his software have gotten configured to dial a number in Canada, or could he have been infected by one of those dialers that calls a toll number in Africa? Are those things even around anymore?



Jim Gurd

Premium Member

join:2000-07-08

Livonia, MI Jim Gurd Premium Member Re: AOL Software said by ISurfTooMuch: or could he have been infected by one of those dialers that calls a toll number in Africa? That was what I first thought. I bet he has a virus which reconfigured his dialer. It wouldn't be Africa, though. Most likely somewhere in the Caribbean which is part of the North American Numbering Plan, so it would look like a regular long distance call, but really be an international call.



thedragonmas

Premium Member

join:2007-12-28

Albany, GA ·VOIPO

Netgear R6300 v2

ARRIS SB6180

thedragonmas Premium Member Re: AOL Software said by Jim Gurd: said by ISurfTooMuch: or could he have been infected by one of those dialers that calls a toll number in Africa? That was what I first thought. I bet he has a virus which reconfigured his dialer. It wouldn't be Africa, though. Most likely somewhere in the Caribbean which is part of the North American Numbering Plan, so it would look like a regular long distance call, but really be an international call.



ive got family that gets PO'd because we wont call them back if theres no message, ive had one rule, and its really simple, and ive had it for oh, 15 years. if its not important enough to leave a message, its not important enough to call in the first place.



they however, consider "missed call" caller i.d. good enough, im waiting for the day they get one of these. oh, you mean the reason i dont return calls from folks who dont bother to leave a message? » www.slate.com/blogs/futu ··· _by.html ive got family that gets PO'd because we wont call them back if theres no message, ive had one rule, and its really simple, and ive had it for oh, 15 years. if its not important enough to leave a message, its not important enough to call in the first place.they however, consider "missed call" caller i.d. good enough, im waiting for the day they get one of these.

ISurfTooMuch

join:2007-04-23

Tuscaloosa, AL 1 recommendation ISurfTooMuch Member Re: AOL Software LOL! I've got a friend who is the same way. For a long time, she'd call and not leave a message, then she'd call again later, asking why I hadn't called her back. When I told her it was because she didn't leave a message, and I figured she was just calling to chit-chat, she said that I should have seen she called and thought it was important enough to call back. After a while, she sort of got the memo, but then her messages were along the lines of, "Hey, call me." When I told her I'd like a little more information than that, she seemed shocked and wanted to know why. I said because I'd like to know if it's going to be something I can discuss in one minute or 20 minutes, which will let me pick the best time to call her back. This concept seemed to be totally alien to her. Now she just texts, which is better all around.

Mele20

Premium Member

join:2001-06-05

Hilo, HI Mele20 to KrK

Premium Member to KrK

said by KrK: the change where you no longer have to dial "1+" to call long distance.



Yes, AOL dialup warned if you used a non local number. I had it when I got my first computer in 1999. It was slightly faster than any local dialup ISP. I remember being surprised that AOL had a local number here. There never was a local number back on the Mainland in the town I grew up in which was larger than Hilo. (But I was ignorant and didn't realize who Steve Case was or I would have known Hawaii would be fully covered for AOL). Never heard of that! I still have to dial a 1, then the area code, and then the number to call the Mainland states. I think you have to do it in California also.Yes, AOL dialup warned if you used a non local number. I had it when I got my first computer in 1999. It was slightly faster than any local dialup ISP. I remember being surprised that AOL had a local number here. There never was a local number back on the Mainland in the town I grew up in which was larger than Hilo. (But I was ignorant and didn't realize who Steve Case was or I would have known Hawaii would be fully covered for AOL).

toejam15

join:2013-06-14

San Jose, CA toejam15 Member terrible value, AT&T Wow - that $51/month is a rip off!



Metatron2008

Premium Member

join:2008-09-02

united state Metatron2008 Premium Member Re: terrible value, AT&T $51 and that doesn't include what he pays AOL



bockbock

@hcs.net bockbock to toejam15

Anon to toejam15

Yes, that is what they can charge you for a landline. As absurd as it sounds.

jasondean

join:2009-08-28

Brooklyn, NY jasondean to toejam15

Member to toejam15

Can anyone who happens to live in the area go over to this guy's house and help him figure a way to lower his phone costs and get him at the very least a basic cable/DSL Internet service so he can use his AOL and save some money? It sounds like this guy hasn't adjusted his services in decades and should be able to lower his bills!!



Let's put the tech world together to help this guy out because AT&T certainly won't!!

elray

join:2000-12-16

Santa Monica, CA elray Member Re: terrible value, AT&T This story is about what it is to be a typical octogenarian and try to interface with the modern world, rather than any "abuse" by AT&T, no matter how despicable, incompetent, occasionally corrupt, inept and unresponsive they may be.



Clearly the gentleman is and was happy with his AOL service, as are many of his generation. They neither need, nor want, to change a thing, though he will probably want to change phone companies.



While I would suggest that DSLExtreme take this up directly and wire him for Fusion - with some pro-bono in-person tech support, since they're right up the street, I have offered my assistance through Lazarus. I expect, however, that his new-found fame will induce support from his neighbors in the condo complex.



Jim Kirk

Premium Member

join:2005-12-09

49985 Jim Kirk Premium Member Re: terrible value, AT&T said by elray: I have offered my assistance through Lazarus. enough money and should be thanking god in heaven that they've even allowed him to have a phone line. Based on your reputation here, I'd expect he'll be told that he's not paying AT&Tmoney and should be thanking god in heaven that they've even allowed him to have a phone line.

elray

join:2000-12-16

Santa Monica, CA elray Member Re: terrible value, AT&T Actually, with Sonic, he'd be paying more than he's paying AT&T for his dialup line, thanks to Dane's forced bundling. But the general cost of his basic service wasn't at issue.



Without inspection, I would suggest Fusion since it would install transparently with any doorphone/intercom, alarm, or medical alert devices, and provides native 911 service. If there aren't any such wrinkles, he'd be much better off with TWC's $14.99 internet tier and their perpetual $10 dialtone promo, assuming his condo association doesn't have an MDU contract that distorts things.

Rekrul

join:2007-04-21

Milford, CT Rekrul to toejam15

Member to toejam15

said by toejam15: Wow - that $51/month is a rip off! The last time I had an independent AT&T landline, I think it was $29.95, and that didn't include any extra features like caller ID, call waiting, etc.

cahiatt

Premium Member

join:2001-03-21

Smyrna, GA cahiatt Premium Member Re: terrible value, AT&T said by Rekrul: said by toejam15: Wow - that $51/month is a rip off! The last time I had an independent AT&T landline, I think it was $29.95, and that didn't include any extra features like caller ID, call waiting, etc. I'm sure that was the advertised price. What was the REAL cost. This is AT&T you are talking about.

Rekrul

join:2007-04-21

Milford, CT Rekrul Member Re: terrible value, AT&T said by cahiatt: I'm sure that was the advertised price. What was the REAL cost. This is AT&T you are talking about. I'm not sure not. I know there were a few other taxes and fees. It's been almost a decade so I just remember the main number on the bill.

elefante72

join:2010-12-03

East Amherst, NY elefante72 to toejam15

Member to toejam15

Thats about what I pay for a year of VOIP! And what does LD cost AT&T $2 an hour or less. I pay 0.5c per minute so I assume AT&T costs are much lower than that.

Mele20

Premium Member

join:2001-06-05

Hilo, HI Mele20 to toejam15

Premium Member to toejam15

Yep. They are still ripping off my very elderly mother on the Mainland. Plus, when I tried to deal with those despicable folks from here in Hawaii, even though I had her bill and her consent, AT&T told me that I had to call them from HER home not from my home in Hawaii. They were extremely nasty.



I pay $28 a month for a landline and that includes $1.50 for low rate long distance on the weekends and $2.50 a month for unlisted, unpublished number. No other frills. About half what my mother pays and she doesn't have an unlisted number and has to pay to call across town! No charge for me to call anywhere on the Big Island.



IowaCowboy

Supermarket Hero

Premium Member

join:2010-10-16

Springfield, MA ARRIS SB6183

Netgear R8000

IowaCowboy Premium Member Long distance charges Even if he did have one of the newer unlimited plans that doesn't charge for long distance, it's in the terms of service that it's for live dialog between two persons (aka talking on the phone) and not for modems, fax machines, etc or commercial purposes like call centers or telemarketing.



My so-called landline is an Ooma phone and I only use it to find misplaced cell phones. I just use my unlimited cell phone through Verizon to make calls, long distance included. But I could be easily bamboozled by data charges should I encounter a runaway app or it downloads an update on LTE.



michieru

Premium Member

join:2009-07-25

Denver, CO michieru Premium Member Question "The reality is that businesses also are accountable. They have a responsibility to ensure that customers are protected from egregious or unwarranted charges."



Is this a valid statement legally?



EliteData

EliteData

Premium Member

join:2003-07-06

Hampton Bays, NY EliteData Premium Member the elderly i can see elderly folks using dialup to access the internet more than likely for the simple reason they feel they should not have to pay more money for broadband access they hardly ever use anyway when dialup is cheaper.

RogerD

join:2008-07-15

Fort Lauderdale, FL RogerD Member AOL is the internet... Many don't understand what it is they are using and once something is set up, that's the way it stays. It took me quite a bit of time to convince family members that they did not need to keep paying AOL to surf the net (dial-up fees or otherwise).



AOL was a nice user interface for the novice user, but doesn't take long to learn how to bypass the fluff. It was nice that you can keep your AOL email address for free.

biochemistry

Premium Member

join:2003-05-09

92361 biochemistry Premium Member Sounds familiar I had this same problem about 12 years ago. I didn't realize that I was calling long distance to connect to AOL because it was a 7 digit phone number in the same area code. Thankfully it was caught when it was only around a $500 bill. Verizon brought DSL to my neighborhood within the next year and I said goodbye to dialup forever.



Oy

@vccs.edu Oy Anon How Sad Someone get this poor old man set up with a budget DSL line, it can be anything (1.5mbps, 3mbps) - but I am sure it will be cheaper than AOhell dial up!



If AT&T drops the charges, it will be the right thing to do. LD does not cost that much to provide anymore, we are not in 1952 when there was only a very limited capacity of lines to connect calls with.



why60loss

Premium Member

join:2012-09-20 why60loss Premium Member Some one get this guy DSL or something dial up sucks and AOL dial up sucks even more.



Once there were over 27 million of us trapped on this total POS ISP, I dream one day that number is zero.



The profit they must be making off this service now per customer must be truly something. The bandwidth cost for them has to be near zero now.



Nic

@videotron.ca Nic Anon Did that when I was 15 Ah, young and stupid back then. But basically, I logged onto AOL via a long-distance number. AOL did cut short the access (which was around 6000$ by then) and my parents negotiated the bill down to 300~$ IIRC.



Anyway, there's no excuse for AOL not to cancel his access in this scenario. I got mine cut off after like, 2 days, so to let it linger for months is inexcusable.



Selenia

Gentoo Convert

Premium Member

join:2006-09-22

Fort Smith, AR Selenia Premium Member Re: Did that when I was 15 said by Nic : Ah, young and stupid back then. But basically, I logged onto AOL via a long-distance number. AOL did cut short the access (which was around 6000$ by then) and my parents negotiated the bill down to 300~$ IIRC.



Anyway, there's no excuse for AOL not to cancel his access in this scenario. I got mine cut off after like, 2 days, so to let it linger for months is inexcusable. No AOL should not do that. Here is a scenario: You are back in yesteryear. You live in an area not yet wired for broadband. Call it Boondocks. Boondocks has no local AOL number. You have a need to be online all the time for whatever reason. Boondocks has a phone plan, at a premium, for unmetered long distance. You find that this plan fills your need for online access. AOL does not know your phone plan or whether you have this plan. You would not want them constantly disconnecting you though. I say if anyone wanted to be proactive, the phone company could cut in and give you a call. They are the ones billing you for LD.



dean corso

human.exe

join:2007-09-07 dean corso Member The worst customer service I've experienced in my life Has been ATT. Avoid like the plague.



AppleGuy

Premium Member

join:2013-09-08

Kitchener, ON AppleGuy Premium Member Voip...but wait... I was thinking there for a second that he should have had some voip service. Then I realized how ridiculous I'd look saying something so dumb.



Anyway, no DSL/Cable internet in his area?