Comments for PlayStation 4 Pro: Did Sony Play It a Bit Too Safe?

Third World Tristan (thirdworldtristan): Only a new director can make the fishing in FFXV actually fun. Hajime Tabata is a hack.

Jimmy DoneGood (jimmydonegood): People are holding back because why buy this when it will already be out ofdate when Scorpio arrives.

Kageyama: "overclocked dual GPUs" You guys have no idea what you're even talking about.

Vulcanproject: This article is a little bizarre. There is no second GPU. There is a larger version of the original GPU, with some additional tweaks, that can deactivate certain sections and downclock to effectively become an identical GPU to the one inside the original PS4. The goal of PS4 Pro was to make available enhanced hardware for developers to either patch in support for their existing titles, or utilise properly on everything they developed henceforth. Sony may have also intended for the Pro hardware to just run every existing title better originally. But developer feedback (and common sense) suggested without specific software enhancements added on a game by game basis, enabling any more performance could easily 'break' many games coded for the original machine's hardware in various ways- introducing glitches and bugs. I think most people understand this when they buy a Pro, as it is kind of an 'enthusiast' console for those who know specifically what they are looking for- better 4K support on recent/upcoming titles. I'm not sure there are really that many people who suddenly expected every game to be massively enhanced by buying a Pro.

Truthhurts24: Sony destroyed this console by giving it an outdated jaguar cpu. Should have waited like Microsoft did for better chips.

jacksjus: The reason that the Slim is selling more than the Pro is quite simple. It's virtually the same thing $100 cheaper. what I mean by this is the differences between the visual output between the two consoles isn't enough to make a Slim owner feel as though they were missing out on something. MS should be concerned with this because likely is showing the fate of the Scorpio. If the upgraded version of the fastest selling console of all time isn't taking off, then why would the upgraded version of the XBox One (S) fair any better? The majority of gamers simply don't care about resolution so as long as interesting games are coming out on a regular basis.

Marty8370: Scorpio will be DOA. MS are already slashing specs. Price will kill Scorpio on arrival.

A.J. Maciejewski (crazyaejay): I agree with this 100%. The reason I don't own a PS4 Pro is because I don't really care about slight graphical boosts. If the games are fun then that's all that matters.

A.J. Maciejewski (crazyaejay): Maybe Final Fantasy XV should have been just a fishing game in the first place.

Third World Tristan (thirdworldtristan): It shouldn't have been directed by that hack Tabata.

zero (Zero3x): As a owner of both a launch PS4 & a PS4 PRO I'll say this. If graphics matter to you get a PRO & a 4K tv. It is ABSOLUTELY STUNNING. Even playing my base PS4 & having the TV itself do the upscale to 4k is WOW. However if you can't afford it or just don't want it, stick with a 1080p hd tv & vanilla PS4. It's great. The difference between 1080p to 4k is like the difference between old tube TV sets in 480i to 1080p hd sets. Stunning & a game changer. In my opinion worth every cent & again even PS4 games without a 4K update patch look way better.

MiamiBeachMedMan: I find it strange to question Sony's tactics, when they have been, for the large part, very successful this gen with each piece of hardware they've implemented. The author says the pro isn't selling as well as the slim...why would it? It's more expensive for one, and secondly it's geared toward those who have a 4k tv with HDR, or someone who may be buying one soon...that is still a relatively small percentage of the gaming public. Of course a device geared more toward "early adopters" isn't going to sell as well.

MiamiBeachMedMan: Uhhh...by all current indications, the Scorpio may in fact be cpu throttled as well, and have to use the same upscaling techniques the Pro uses to achieve 4k, so......

MiamiBeachMedMan: Sony has games. Microsoft has no games. Microsoft is themselves "out of date" because there are no games. Good luck with that.

Rambo Deochenta (rambodeochenta): $399 for 6tfps4k with it maybe a new gen with UHD Bluray watta are ya nuts!!!

SG Brown (sgbrown): Thanks for your reply, BelAirBoss, although, SONY have not had a perfect record with their hardware releases, despite what many choose to believe. Look at the PSP GO and the growing lack of support for the VITA. Despite this, the PS4 PRO will only sell well WHEN developers make use of the machine's hardware. Even with a 1080p screen, better FPS and faster loading would make a big difference with some games if all the features of the PRO were enabled by default. You're right, though. If the only consideration would be a higher resolution, that feature, alone wouldn't sell the machine, since most gamers now, do have 1080p screens. But, as the prices come down soon, that will change. . . . :)

SG Brown (sgbrown): Absolutely correct, as far as 1080p output goes. The PS4 Pro was designed for 4K early-adopters and those PSVR fans that want more oomph and power with better framerates. Gamers DO care about resolution though, jackjus, because as 4K screens come down a bit in price, the demand will grow and more games will be 4K enabled. In fact, GOOGLE 5K screens and see what'cha get. M$ will launch the SCORPIO with 4 times the power and output of the current PS4 SLIM. If, M$ launches SCORPIO with full STEAM access to games via their XBOX anywhere paradigm, SONY will be having to play massive catch-up!

SG Brown (sgbrown): Sorry, Vulcanproject, there ARE 2 GPUs on the motherboard of the PS4 PRO. Similar to sli with PC hardware, the second GPU, in a side-by-side butterfly config only works under specific instructions from the developer of PS4 PRO enabled titles: the added GPU does not work by default. SONY wanted the PS4 PRO to have complete parity with the SLIM when running past PlayStation games.

SG Brown (sgbrown): There are 2 GPUs on the new motherboard of the PS4 PRO. One is enabled by default and the other, ONLY when coded instructions tell it to. They ARE overclocked in PS4 PRO mode; but not when running non-PRO enabled previous games. Then, only ONE GPU works and is underclocked for parity with the PS4 SLIM. Do some more research if ya want. We did it for you. Thanks for your comments! :) WATCH the PS4 PRO teardown video on VIDEO CHUMS. It clearly shows, and explains the hardware. :) "Instead of using an entirely new GPU, Cerny said the PS4 Pro is using a "double-sized one." In effect, the new console has a second, identical GPU configured next to the original, with a 14 percent boost in frequency to 911MHz, which more than doubles the processing power of the Pro." And this: "Speaking at conference at Sony's San Mateo HQ attended by Digital Foundry and other outlets, PlayStation architect Cerny explained that in order to achieve this, the hardware has been doubled. The console will sport two chips and the system uses one to play existing tiles, and then when a Pro game is popped in, both chips work in tangent. "We doubled the GPU size by essentially placing it next to a mirrored version of itself, sort of like the wings of a butterfly," he explained."

SG Brown (sgbrown): M$ SCORPIO will be XBOX "anywhere" compliant which means PC games might also run well. IF, the rumors are correct, SCORPIO may launch with full STEAM support. THEN, M$'s SCORPIO will have thousands of possible games, in addition to their own libraries.

SG Brown (sgbrown): Tabata's catalog, mostly included mobile/portable titles. FFXV, imo, looks and plays like a mash-up of both traditional ARPG and a mobile game with tons of DLC on the way. . . . /smh

MiamiBeachMedMan: Steam support would be a game changer, but do you really find this likely? I do not. You seem to be oblivious to the fact Microsoft already has the Windows store gaming front, and they don't play well with Steam. Microsoft needs to significantly improve their own store for pc and console gaming and get it to work well...they cripple and limit so many games on that platform as it is. Forget this Steam mess you're talking. Ain't happening.

MiamiBeachMedMan: Oh I didn't say perfect....I said successful. Also, developers need to do a better job with Pro games, including Sony's own first party devs, and hopefully going forward into the future they will. There are some games available for the Pro, like Tomb Raider, that do a great job with the hardware, giving gamers the option to play several ways, be it 4k 30, 1080 60, 1080 with better effects and decreased framerate, etc., I would expect in time more devs to get a handle on what the Pro is capable of and offer better options. One would hope anyway. But it would make sense for games currently under development to better plan for that on the Pro, as opposed to games that were released before the Pro was a known entity making full use of it's capabilities. Tomb Raider being the exception due to the Pc version of that game having a lot of that functionality implemented already.

SG Brown (sgbrown): Hi BelAirBoss: Do I find STEAM support likely? YES, if the SCORPIO OS is based upon current PC architecture. The ONLY thing stopping the SCORPIO from being PC enabled is M$ and VALVE. The placeholder store, imo, is only awaiting in-the-pipeline XBOX updates. Notice how XBOX is looking and functioning more and more like a PC? When it's fully-integrated with WIN 10, watch how all PCs will be also able to play XBOX LIVE games. --And, that would include STEAM games. IF the owner of the SCORPIO can add STEAM as an app. . . . .

MiamiBeachMedMan: What are you talking about? The ps4, xbox one, ps4 pro are already x86 architecture, which is current pc architecture. Steam on xbox? They might as well just tell people, "don't bother buying a console, buy a pc". What would be the point? Scorpio is a steam machine? Those didn't work out so well, in case you didn't notice. So what you're suggesting is they will give up xbox live gold revenue stream? Really? Not going to happen. Microsoft can't sell consoles, so the only updates they currently give are user numbers and xbox live gold stats....without the live gold money, it's over. Also, what happened to Scorpio not having exclusive titles for it, apart from VR titles? How will they allow Steam access? Steam would eat their store...they would be crippling their own store, which they've desperately been trying to build up for years now. Microsoft talks far too much, and delivers far too little. That has been the case for many years now. Time to shut up and deliver.

Third World Tristan (thirdworldtristan): Yeah, I cringe when people assume FFXV has braindead fetch quests because it copies modern Western MMOs. Tabata was doing that crap way before in his mobile games. He's a terrible game director. I will try to sell my copy of FFXV. I hope I can get at least 30 bucks back. Square Enix go **** itself.

Truthhurts24: I doubt it they would have released it by now if they used an outdated jaguar cpu and the system would bottleneck worst than the Pro because of the 6 Tflop processing power. They waited for a 2017 release for a reason which is to put in the latest AMD Ryzen Cpu chipset inside the Scorpio to balance the GPU. The Scorpio will have some upscaling abilities like the Pro but that does not mean it will scale from the same resolution as the Pro on most games. All 1st party games will be native 4k but multiplats will be left up to the devs. This is what I believe could be wrong.

Barry Harden (barryharden): The same situation will also apply to the Xbox Scorpio. Since Micro$oft insists titles have to be backwards compatible with XBone hardware it'll be no different than what PS4 Pro is facing.

Vulcanproject: Completely untrue. Single SoC. When the machine runs in original PS4 mode the GPU merely has half of it deactivated and downclocked. The extra CU units were said to be mirrored like the wings of a butterfly which may have you confused- but by that they mean they are laid side by side on the very same piece of silicon. Not a separate chip. You can even see for yourself on a teardown of the machine like on ifixit. There is one larger chip under the main cooler and not twin units. It's basically the same sort of concept as cylinder deactivation where a V8 runs as a 4 cylinder engine to save fuel. You don't have two 4 cylinders in there. You have one V8 and you just stop combustion in half the cylinders when you don't need the power....

SG Brown (sgbrown): Hi and thanks for your reply. Here's an excerpt from an interview with Mark Cerny, the architect of the PS4 PRO; "Instead of using an entirely new GPU, Cerny said the PS4 Pro is using a "double-sized one." In effect, the new console has a second, identical GPU configured next to the original, with a 14 percent boost in frequency to 911MHz, which more than doubles the processing power of the Pro." And this: "Speaking to Eurogamer, PS4 architect and really clever person Mark Cerny explains how the GPU (graphics processor unit) is repeated in the PS4 Pro. "We doubled the GPU size by essentially placing it next to a mirrored version of itself. That gives us an extremely clean way to support the existing 700 [PS4] titles. We just turn off half the GPU and run it at something quite close to the original GPU." But, stick a Pro game, in and both chips are activated, doubling the GPU's power while the CPU runs at the same rate - something Cerny says is important to ensure compatibility with older games. And this: "Speaking at conference at Sony's San Mateo HQ attended by Digital Foundry and other outlets, PlayStation architect Cerny explained that in order to achieve this, the hardware has been doubled. The console will sport two chips and the system uses one to play existing tiles, and then when a Pro game is popped in, both chips work in tangent. "We doubled the GPU size by essentially placing it next to a mirrored version of itself, sort of like the wings of a butterfly," he explained."

Vulcanproject: Indeed but you seem to fail to understand the concept and how the quotes of Cerny are interpreted and where the additional misleading commentary by some reports are added. Some sites themselves have misinterpreted Cerny. Directly quoting him, he said that the GPU is 'double sized.' In other words it is increased in size, not having added a second chip. 'In effect' also hints that it doesn't have two chips, but the 'effect' is as if it does. You seem to have the impression there are two separate graphics processor chips inside the machine. This is patently not true. AMD basically doubled up the GPU components but on the same die. The chip is designed and manufactured as one unified part, to simplify and save costs. Please research further to clarify your understanding.

SG Brown (sgbrown): With the exception of December, XBOX had outsold PS4 each month since last summer. YES, the current crop of consoles ARE PC compliant but that has little to do with licensing and operating system compatibility. STEAM on XBOX shouldn't eliminate XBOX GOLD monies: two separate income streams. Your hypothetical argument, ""don't bother buying a console, buy a pc" ignores any potential licensing arrangements, publishing exclusives or gated content; like STEAM access could be. YOU ARE CORRECT in your assertion that M$ is usually "more talk" and less product support than is warranted. It's also true, that M$ is more often confused about what gamers might really want, as well. STEAM machines tanked because STEAM access was not popular among console gamers, as a whole, yet. PC gamers also had better rigs than what VALVE was offering, and PC gamers also use monitors and not distant televisions. "Scorpio is a steam machine?" Scorpio will be an "everything" machine.

YOUDIEMOFO: It will be no different for any company until they release an actual "new" console. This parity garbage is going to create more problems and headaches for smaller independent studios. Having a new system that still shares its hardware dependency on its lesser performing counterpart seems a bit dumb to me. But again one can not just spit out a new console without keeping the initial install base there. Only if they had done the right thing and had the pro as the original PS4 things would have been much better. Oh yeah.........and included SHD Blu-ray player. So FN stupid Sony......

A.J. Maciejewski (crazyaejay): Thanks for this, Vulcanproject. It's definitely confusing how Cerny and other folks word the specifics but what you say makes sense. Basically, it's hard to tell when people are speaking figuratively as opposed to literally which can be quite ambiguous when discussing hardware technical specifics. Either way, the essence of how PS4 Pro operates is easy to understand and that's generally all that matters.

Hvd: sony built it for psvr.

Hvd: do you actually believe what you say?...lmao

Hvd: yep up scaled is up scaled.the xbox scorpio will destroy any sony system out.it will run 4k games native not upscaled for its exclusives as they have said many time.it will also upscale and 1080p games on it to 4k with out a pro patch..lmao

A.J. Maciejewski (crazyaejay): Considering Microsoft gets no revenue from Steam (with the exception of specific games published by Microsoft), I'd imagine that they would block Steam from running on a Scorpio just for the sake of eliminating the competition. Can you imagine if the Xbox marketplace worked on PS4? Sony would block it immediately.

jacksjus: "It will run 4K native for its exclusives". So you're talking maybe two games a year. Ok I understand now. MS was holding back all this time for the right hardware to suddenly start making these amazing games, that still have to run on the current XBone. Yup I get it now.

Jack McBastard (jack_mcbastard): That doesn't make any sense.

MiamiBeachMedMan: Uhh...the only territory the xbox one had a sales lead for some months was the U.S., but the fact remains the ps4 was still outselling it globally. Anyway, enjoy your games. I just hope the Scorpio doesn't turn out to be a disappointment.

SG Brown (sgbrown): Thanks for your comments, BelAirBoss. You enjoy YOUR games, too, on whatever platform you like best. It will be "interesting" to see if M$ can step up and deliver a knockout product that slays the competition or even competes fairly. Personally, I game on nearly every console including a PC with a Titan X and, simply, love gaming and everything about it.

Cigi (cigi_silk): No you are so wrong. Xbox is running Xbox as a virtual machine hence will be able to run games just as x86 on pc. Sony blew it, and Ms is bringing a new generation that is forward and backwards compatible. They just have been more forward thinking.