Welcome to part 7 of a 7 part series in which I interview author, teacher, healer, and Astral Projection Master Robert Bruce.

In this series of articles you’re going to find out everything you’ve ever wanted to know about Astral Projection, OBE (Out of Body Experiences), Kundalini, and much, much more.

In this article:

Let’s begin:

What is Kundalini?

Michael Frank: Let’s talk about the Kundalini. What is the Kundalini? What happens when you awaken it? What is the purpose of awakening it? Do you advocate others awaken it? Are there dangers to doing so? Let’s go into it. Unpack it.

Robert Bruce: If you’re going to think about raising your Kundalini you first need to know that the Kundalini energy will burn away all of your natural psychic shielding, so you need to know how to defend and look after yourself. Otherwise you’re going to pick up hitchhikers (demons and spirits) left, right and center, and you’re going to have a hell of a time.

There doesn’t exist an instruction manual for Kundalini, so before you raise Kundalini, you absolutely need to read my book The Practical Psychic Self-Defense Handbook: A Survival Guide

Everybody above the age of ten should read that.

Michael Frank: Let’s go through it step by step. First of all: What is Kundalini?

Robert Bruce: Kundalini is an evolutionary mechanism that’s built into our DNA. When you stimulate the human energy body and it’s chakras in the right way, you trigger an evolutionary mechanism that feels very reptilian in nature. It feels like a King Cobra moving up through you.

The only way to understand Kundalini is to experience it. You’re looking at an incredibly sophisticated mechanism here. This is not some little thing. This is huge. It totally transforms you and the way your mind works. It completely opens you up. I mean after I raised Kundalini the first few dozen times, I had to take a break for about three years and not do anything, not even meditation, just so I could stay sane, because the onslaught of downloads and ideas and impressions I was receiving was hard to deal with.

It was like raising Kundalini had expanded my cranium, my skull, and this is analogy here, but it was like my skull had expanded to several times its normal size, so I had this huge dome, but only this little brain inside of this huge head, but when I raised Kundalini over a few years, it was like my brain or my mind grew to fill this void I’d created.

Ida and Pingala

Michael Frank: My understanding of Kundalini was that it was two intertwining energetic or spiritual snakes that reside at the base of the spine, and that through certain exercises, one could awaken them to rise up through your spine and out through the crown of your head.

Robert Bruce: What you’re talking about are the two main pathways coming up beside your central channel and they’re called the Ida and Pingala and they’re often depicted as two little snakes. But when Kundalini manifests, it’s almost like it wraps around it. Imagine your central column as if it was a broomstick going through the center of your head all the way down through your body and out through the perineum. It’s like the Kundalini coils around this when it activates and this is depicted in the staff of Hermes, which is used as a symbol for modern medicine. You’ve got these two snakes going around it, and at the top, there are the two opposing snakes that relates to it. I’ve never had an experience that would depict that depiction, but I think it relates to the Ida and Pingala.

How Kundalini can rise

Now, keep in mind that there are several different ways that the Kundalini can rise in a person, and how it rises in you depends upon what kinds of energetic blockages you might have, what kind of mental blocks you might have in your mind, who you are as a person or a personality, and what element you are operating on, whether it’s earth, fire, air, water or akasha, and akasha being spirit.

Now the highest level of raising Kundalini is said to be Akasha, which is what happened to me where it raises up through your chakras and out through your head. It’s all done in one hit.

However with the other elements, it may go from one chakra to the next, and just going from one chakra to the next may take a year.

There are multiple ways that this mechanism tries to accommodate the person that it is trying to raise in. If it can’t go one way, it will automatically seek another pathway, or it may even hop like a frog and skip one chakra and go to a higher one.

When the energetic event actually happens, and I’ve sat there and held people’s hands and literally nursed people going through this process, including my wife, they are heavy breathing like they’re giving birth, and it’s painful as it goes up from one chakra to the next one.

The first major Kundalini spike that shoots up your central channel and spinal cord can be very, very painful. I liken it to somebody getting a broomstick wrapped with barbed wire, dowsed in gasoline and set alight with 240 volts going through it, and ramming that up through my central channel. It was that painful.

What are the benefits to raising Kundalini?

Michael Frank: What are the benefits of raising Kundalini? Why do people do it?

Robert Bruce: Kundalini is an evolutionary mechanism. It evolves your mind and your spirit to a much higher level of consciousness and being. That’s what it does. It causes evolution. Now, as part of that evolution, you have to learn to undo all the damage that you’ve done to yourself for your entire life and you’ve got to do all the things which you should have done before you tried to raise Kundalini.

You know the wisest words ever spoken on this planet were by Socrates:

“Man, know thyself” – Socrates

The words are very powerful and they definitely apply to this because you need to know yourself very, very well before you try to do it. Now you might think you know yourself, but you don’t. Absolutely not. Usually people don’t start really getting to know themselves until they hit their eighties.

Don’t you just raise Kundalini once?

Michael Frank: How many times have you raised Kundalini? I didn’t even know it was possible to raise it more than once. I just thought it was a one and done type of thing.

Robert Bruce: Everybody thinks that. I’ve done it hundreds of times literally. It’s not a one and done type thing. It’s something that changes and develops and evolves.

Is it dangerous to raise Kundalini?

Michael Frank: I’ve heard some horror stories of people prematurely waking up their Kundalini and then they convulse uncontrollably, or they have these energy fluctuations to where they can’t stop trembling or shaking for one or two years at a time.

Robert Bruce: I’ve been teaching this to people for a very long time and I’ve had thousands of students, and I’ve worked out how to stop all of the common mishaps you can have with Kundalini, and they can all be overcome by approaching it in a nice progressive way to start with. You can’t just dive into it, you’d be a bit foolish to do so.

Stop if it gets scary

I have something I call the golden rule which is very important and it’s this:

When the different parts of your energy body are evolving and weird things are happening to you, let’s say you’re getting convulsions or you’re trembling, or you have any kind of adverse event that’s too scary or too uncomfortable, or there’s anything more than you can bare, you need to stop that session and stop everything you’re doing immediately.

No more energy work, no more inner work, no meditation at all until you feel completely normal again. Then go back to it and do it again. If it happens again, stop and take another break until you feel completely normal again. Whether it takes an hour, a day, or a couple of years, stop until you feel good again and then go back and do it again.

Why Robert raised his Kundalini

The reason I decided to raise my Kundalini was because I was dealing with several families who were being severely messed with in a really bad way by negative entities, and I thought that if I could raise Kundalini, that would give me the power to be able to do something about those situations and help all of those little kids. Otherwise I never would have thought about doing it.

When I did it, I had plans to do it, and on the very first session I tried, I did it. And I followed my intuition and fasted for three days beforehand to purge and purify my body because you have to empty the digestive track out first because you’re going to crap out everything inside of you.

The first time I did it, I fasted for three days beforehand, but I thought “enemas? Ew” I didn’t want to do that. “I’ll be right thanks”.

But when the first wave went through me, my bowels immediately turned to water, it was like I was shot in the head and my bowels literally turned to water and fortunately I was home alone and had nonstop access to my toilet.

The three manifestations of Kundalini

After each time I went to the toilet I would go back to my chair again, and I would continue to raise energy up my legs, stimulating the base chakra and pulling energy up inside myself, and then I would pull energy up through my naval, solar plexus, heart, and the crown of the head, and I was making this up intuitively as I went, but it worked.

The chakras and the minds eye explosion of light

When the first major Kundalini spike hit me, it came with a big impact and there was a huge minds eye explosion of light, and all of my chakras were activated and lots of other stuff as well, and according to today’s knowledge that’s it, you’ve succeeded, you’re done, you have now raised Kundalini!

No you haven’t. That’s bullshit.

Yes you’ve succeeded in at least partially raising your Kundalini, and I do call that a partial success, but because I didn’t know and no one had told me that I was ‘supposed’ to be done, and if I’d been told that I was ‘supposed’ to be done I might have stopped then, but because I didn’t know that I continued and about 20 minutes later I felt this huge movement inside of me, and then this Cobra, this big snake, came up through the perineum, up through the gut, three and a half turns and out through the head. And that was the full Kundalini, the whole Cobra. I did it a week later too. Same thing. Three days fasting on water. This time I had an enema so I didn’t have a problem again with my gut turning to water.

Then I raised it again, but this time it expanded. The first time it just raised to the head and I had a mind explosion of light, but when I did it a second time a week later, it came up through my head again and the big Cobra hood came down over my face, and that happened for a few weeks.

The Medusa effect

And then after the experience of it coming up through my head, I then got the Medusa effect where it was like I had hundreds, if not thousands of little fingers coming from the surface of my head all above the hairline. Now these fingers feel like they’re a natural part of you. They’re as much a part of you as your own fingers and you can move them independently or all at once, and you can feel them just as well as you can feel your own fingers if you close your eyes.

Now the interesting thing about those little antennas or fingers or whatever you want to call them, is that if you think of anything clearly, they’ll instantly change and form a complex geometric Mandala that reflects that thing. And if you think of something else they’ll change into another Mandala reflecting that thing. If you think of a tree, they’ll form another Mandala. Everything seems to have a corresponding Mandala to it. There’s like a whole language built in there that we don’t know.

Most interesting though, is that if you think about a person that is alive in the real world, the fingers point to where that person is in the physical world, so if they’re behind you, or to the side, or wherever, they point that way.

I thought that if you could get a couple of people doing this then you could use it to find a missing person, you could use that to triangulate them, and then you would have a pretty good idea as to where that person is in real life.

The OM effect

The third and final manifestation of Kundalini is what I call the sacred OM.

So first you get the minds eye explosion of light, then the big serpent cobra coming out of your crown chakra, then the antennas or fingers coming out of your crown chakra and the mandala’s, and then you get this deep OM sound appearing, like imagine if you had a thousand senior Buddhist monks in a cave all doing a deep OM.

When this OM sound started it quickly permeated throughout me and my reality. And although my eyes were closed I could see through my closed eyelids that the reality around me was being torn apart, it’s like the world was just being ripped away, and I was floating in space surrounded by this deep OM.

My physical body was now that of a complete alien. It was not human any longer. I had the Kundalini Cobra hood and the antenna fingers coming out of my head, and then energy discs, one on each hand and each foot, which were like two meters across and they were spinning and when I moved my hands it made a lightsaber sort of a noise, and I feel like, I don’t know what I am, I’m the Inner Daemon, I’m like God, I don’t know what I am.

I think this is the highest level you can get to before source becomes everything, but I’m floating in the middle of the universe, I’m like the master of the universe, and I know at that time that I have full creative ability where I can create and manifest anything.

How to safely raise Kundalini

Michael Frank: How does one safely raise Kundalini? What are the best techniques to do so?

Robert Bruce: The practice of raising Kundalini is done through very simple energy work. It’s a very simple technique, but I’ll put it this way: If you want to raise your Kundalini, learn how to have a conscious astral projection first. It’s a lot easier and it’s really good training. Having a conscious astral projection rewires your energy body, and it’s a really good first step because you need that amount of control before you can even think of approaching Kundalini. You have to learn how to crawl before you can learn how to walk and run.

The technique to raise Kundalini is very simple, and you can master this system in a few days, it doesn’t take long, because it’s very simple, very logical.

You start by using body awareness to exercise your hands, feet, arms, legs, torso and then the spine, and then you are literally use body awareness to pull energy up your legs and pushing it into the base chakra. And you can feel this happening intensely. And you just keep doing that.

In an actual session: You stimulate the base chakra, imagine you’ve got your two hands down there playing around with the base chakra, opening it up and pulling it apart and stirring it around and doing various things to it to stimulate it and pull energy up into it. And then you go to the next chakra, and to the next, and the next, and the next, and you do the same thing. And then when you’ve done the whole lot you pull energy up through the base chakra and then up through all of them in one hit, pulling energy up and through you. And then you go back to the base chakra and then do it over again. It’s a very simple process.

Now if you look at traditional techniques for raising chakras, and there’s some common sense involved in this, one of the ways is sitting cross legged on the floor and they tie a knot in their robe, it’s like tying a knot in a towel, and they sit on that knot so the knot is over the perineum, the flat area between the anus and genitals, and they put a knotted bit of robe there and they rock a little bit over it so it is pressing into the perineum which is the area they want to stimulate.

Now, I’ve never tried that, I don’t need to, but it does make sense to me. I think putting a little bit of pressure there would be a good way of drawing your body awareness to that area, which would help to focus your energy there.

How long to practice

Michael Frank: How many hours a day does someone need to practice on average? 20 minutes a day? An hour a day? I know that it depends on the person, the level of dedication, receptivity, and a thousand other factors, but if we’re oversimplifying, how long would it take the average person to awaken the Kundalini?

Robert Bruce: One hour a day minimum to make any serious progress. The same general rule applies to occult training of any kind, you need to put in one hour of training a day minimum, to make any kind of noticeable progress. Two hours a day or more though, is of course better.

How long does it take to raise Kundalini?

Michael Frank: If someone was dedicated for 1-2 hours of Kundalini practice per day, the average person, your best guess, how long do you think it would take for the Kundalini to rise?

Robert Bruce: It depends on how well you listened to Socrates: “Man know thyself”

The inner work you cannot avoid, but just to mechanically active Kundalini and cross your fingers and hope for the best that you’ll survive it – I’m not trying to warn people off – but I am warning you to pay attention to the inner work because you can’t avoid it. You need to start to get to know yourself and find out your motivations and things.

I started meditating when I was 20 and I’d done at least a year of energy work before I raised my Kundalini at age 33. However if most people work at this, they can probably do it in a few months. Not very long.

Protective measures before a Kundalini raise attempt

Michael Frank: A question from Reddit re: your Kundalini Raising Course:

“Robert mentions that at the end of his first Kundalini Raise he had a Real Time OBE. And just before returning to his physical body, a dark-haired man made him look into his body. There were a dozen or so small creatures, like the small creatures in the movie “Critters” crawling around inside of his torso near the spine. The man told him that he should be dead after raising Kundalini with that inside his body.

My question:

Is it possible to know if I have something like that inside my body?

Are there any preventive measures I could take, before a Kundalini Raise attempt?”

Robert Bruce: My books The Practical Psychic Self-Defense Handbook: A Survival Guide and Energy Work both give ways of protecting, cleansing, and grounding yourself. But the inner work, mindfulness and knowing who you are, knowing your motivations, and understanding how the human mind works and how you are wired, you have to understand.

Your mind is very much like a computer with an operating system. We were talking earlier about vices such as drinking, gambling, watching pornography etc. will affect your experience in the astral and that’s a really good example.

If you watch some pornography, maybe a friend sent you a link that you clicked on and watched one time, but then you went back to it and started to watch it again and again and masturbated to it.

Because the experience has been reinforced by an orgasm, a pleasurable experience, you’re much more likely to view pornography again and again. I have people that come to me with serious pornography addictions, a European man I’ve been working with is in his fifties can’t stop watching pornography and he masturbates about seven times a day, and he can’t get anything done. His work is suffering, his relationship is in tatters, and his wife is feeling really unappreciated.

Alcohol and gambling also works the same way.

Now back to the computer analogy. You’ve not just looked at the title, you’ve actually been foolish enough to click the link and while you’ve watched this pornography you’ve allowed this virus malware onto your computer, and it’s infiltrated your computer and every now and then you’ll get random popups saying press here to join the club.

The human mind is very much like this. If you get exposed to something and if you don’t have the moral integrity or the moral compass within you to say no, that is wrong, and to turn away from something, then you can get infected and this infection can grow inside of you to the point where it starts causing a problem for you.

Whatever the addiction is, this can also apply to gossip. Gossiping about people and trashing them and talking badly about them when they’re not around can also become an addiction. It’s a very unspiritual thing to do because if you’ve got something to say to a person about their behavior then say it to their face. Be upfront about it. This is very old fashion ethics and morality.

This also applies to jealousy, if you really want something and a friend of yours has it, let’s say it’s a new motorbike, and you’re so jealous that you keep losing sleep over it, if before you know it you hate your friend and you start having dreams about stealing it and maybe killing him, then you’ve allowed a virus into your system and it’s taking root inside you and it will start to grow.

Imagine you have a little demon sitting on your left shoulder, and a little angel sitting on your right shoulder, and whichever one of these, the demon or the angel, that you listen to and entertain the most, will start to grow bigger and bigger and get louder and louder, and the one you ignore the most will start to shrink and shrink and get quieter and quieter and will eventually vanish. That’s what happens to the mind. You need to be careful about what you focus on and where you direct your attention.

Robert Bruce on Tom Campbell’s Theory of Everything

Michael Frank: A question from Reddit:

“What is your take on the information Tom Campbell is spreading in regards to virtual reality, we are consciousness, everything is information and data etc. has that been your experience also? And do you diverge from Tom Campbell’s Theory of Everything in any aspect?”

Robert Bruce: Well, Tom Campbell is a good friend of mine. I know him very well and I’ve had many hours of conversation with him. His work is absolutely impeccable. He is a very high level physicist, a very smart cookie, and an accomplished astral projector as well. I agree with him that this world does behave like a digital simulation.

Michael Frank: Do your views in any way, shape or form diverge from Tom Campbell’s in regards to his Theory of Everything?

Robert Bruce: Not as far as I know. I’m talking about his view of the composition of reality. I can’t fault his work. It’s just a different way of describing or explaining things. He’s a very logical, realistic, down to earth human being. And he tries his very best to be accurate.

Spiritual evolution – what it is not

Robert Bruce: By the way: Do you know what spiritual development is?

I’ll tell you what spiritual development is not: Spiritual development has nothing to do with astral projection or healing or psychic abilities. Psychic abilities have nothing to do with spiritual development.

Just because a person is clairvoyant and psychic and hears spirit voices etc. that doesn’t mean they’re spiritually evolved. It just means they have a psychic ability. That’s all it means. It’s no indication of what kind of person they are. I often see that soft of mistake today in the new age movement where people look at someone that has these abilities, a clairvoyant or whatever, and they think that person must be really spiritually evolved to do that. No it’s got nothing to do with it. Having psychic abilities is not an indicator of spiritual development. It’s got nothing to do with it.

You maybe a trained occultist with the ability to perform miracles. But you could also be a black magician or a black witch or a satanist that regularly sacrifices living human babies and people and actually kills people for hire. There are magicians out there that do this. If you give them enough money they will kill somebody for you with magic in the most horrible ways. People don’t realize these things. They’re very real.

The catch basket concept

Robert Bruce: I’d like to close by sharing the philosophy of my life which is encapsulated and explained in an article on my blog called: The Catch Basket Concept

In that experience a master materialized to me close to 20 years ago as I was about to go and sit down and meditate about 8.30 pm in the evening.

There was just a shimmer in the light, a distortion in the air, but he materialized his voice to me very, very clearly and said “Robert it’s about time you and I had a long talk”, and he said “turn the light out”, and then he spoke to me for a couple of hours.

And when you meet a master or an angel, and I’ve met angels, you can never have a two-way conversation, there is no need to have a two-way conversation. Because masters and angels have already read you. They know exactly what you need to hear and they give instruction. And then they will leave. That’s just how it is.

This master explained to me that the reason I could not go any further in my understanding of life and the greater reality and how it all works, was because I was blinding myself with my own beliefs, and he explained in greater detail something he called “The Way of the Master” and he said that the way of the master is to only proceed through the steps of your own personal experience.

If you look at what the catch basket concept is, I’m applying the scientific method to spirituality and metaphysics, and the scientific method is the best, most perfect system that we have, because it is absolutely flawless in it’s logic, it’s based upon personal experience, doing the experiments, checking the results, and then getting other people to replicate those experiments. That’s what I do.

When I discover something new I have lots of people I know that astral project go and try things out for me. I run the study and get people to astral project to see what they come back without front loading them and giving them my results. I say let’s go and do this and let’s see what happens, let me know, and that’s about the only way if you think about it you can possibly get any kind of feedback on this sort of thing. And over a period of time, if it’s repeatable, if other people can do it, then I’ll take that in and say well, that’s pretty much a fact. I can either keep it high in the probabilities list or take it into my core beliefs. One of the other.

The easiest way to understand the catch basket concept is you have:

Core beliefs Probabilities list Possibilities list

Core beliefs

Your core beliefs are things that you know because you have personal experience with them, preferably repeatable experience, like gravity, the sun rises and sets etc. you can say these are facts. These are your core beliefs.

Probabilities list

Then you have the probabilities list. Everything you think that is probably true goes into your probabilities list until you have some personal experience with it to take it into your core beliefs, but until then you’ve got to be disciplined, you cannot take it as an absolute belief.

Possibilities list

The third and final list is the possibilities list. Things that you think are possible, but you don’t yet have enough personal experience to either take it into the probably true list, or into your core beliefs. Once you get some personal experience with it you can take it into your core beliefs, but without it you can’t.

This is a discipline and a philosophy from which to live your life from now on, and I’ve been doing this for 20 years. This transforms you on the inside.

By practicing the catch basket concept, and only accepting beliefs based upon your own personal experience, you purify your belief system, and you make it as clean and as true as you possibly can.

This is my main method and main philosophy in life.

This is part 7 of a 7 part Masterclass on Astral Projection

This concludes my interview with Robert Bruce. During the interview we spoke about many other things including alien abductions, ET’s, demonic possession – including Robert’s own experience being possessed and as an exorcist, energetic healing and more. However in the interest of space I have decided to reserve these stories for the upcoming Life Lessons podcast which will launch in early 2019.

This interview has been edited and condensed for clarity.

Robert Bruce is the author of several groundbreaking books: starting with his magnum opus Astral Dynamics (200,000 books sold worldwide), followed by the books: The Psychic Self-Defense Handbook and Energy Work. Robert also coauthored the classic: Mastering Astral Projection: 90 day guide to OBE, and the Mastering Astral Projection CD audio package coauthored with Brian Mercer.

Robert Bruce is a true spiritual pioneer of our times. He has spent his life pondering the big questions and exploring the great mysteries, such as: The Afterlife Experience, the human energy body, the out-of-body experience, Kundalini, psychic security, the nature of nonphysical realities and spirit beings, and how everything fits together in the greater reality.

Robert began having Out of Body experiences at the age of three, and he raised his Kundalini to its full in his early thirties, and many times since. His experience-driven approach, that he calls ‘The Way Of The Master’ has resulted in profound contact with his higher self and the spiritual hierarchy.

Robert Bruce currently resides in Western Australia. He lectures internationally, conducts workshops, and creates video-based training programs, which are available through Astral Dynamics

Find our more about Robert Bruce at Astral Dynamics and on his Astral Dynamics Forum where you will find a wealth of information and free tutorials.

When not writing or lecturing, Robert is often found diving enchanted coral reefs, in deep meditation, or exploring the wild and lonely places in search of Grace.