



Date: May 2nd, 2007 6:16 PM

Author: Obsidian histrionic office therapy



Adam: How can I help you? Mark: Yes, I had a question. Adam: I hope I can help. Mark: I've been talking to a friend who is a mormon who has asked me to read the book of mormon. Mark: I am a Christian. Mark: While I've been reading the book of Mormon, I came across where it talks about "many precious things" were taken from the bible. Adam: Great. Mark: So I was wondering if you had any information about this. Adam: Well, let me see if I can elaborate a little on that phrase... Adam: There are many religions or faiths these days who believe the bible to be the word of God, Mormons included. Adam: However, as we can see, many of these differing faiths teach different doctrines to an extent... Adam: Let's take baptism for example... Adam: One Christian Religion may teach that baptism needs to be done in a specific fashion while another teaches a different principle... Adam: these differences may include age, accountability, authority, or form of baptism. Adam: Many of the true doctrines that were written and taught by Jesus and his Disciples for example cannot be found soley in the bible. Adam: Therefore, the Book of Mormon contains many of those "plain" and "precious" truths about basic gospel principles that are essential to our salvation. Adam: There are many things which this phrase refers to... Adam: While at one point in time, the bible may have contained these true principles... Adam: many of these truths have been lost, or taken, or translated incorrectly throughout the ages Adam: does this answer your question at all? Mark: Yes, thanks. So do you have information on when these truths were taken from the Bible? And who did this? And what exactly was taken out? Adam: Well...I'll share with you what I know on the subject... Mark: Okay Adam: After the death of Jesus Christ and His Apostles, priesthood keys and authority were taken from the earth... Adam: this was the power basically that Christ had and His prophed had to receive revelation from God Adam: they were men, called of God to lead and direct the church. Adam: it was their writings that make up the bible... Adam: without revelation and priesthood authority, people relied on human wisdom to interpret the scriptures and the principles and ordinances of the gospel of Jesus Christ... Adam: False ideas were taught as truth... Adam: many plain and precious truths regarding the nature of God, the gospel, and other basic principles were lost Adam: this led to what is called the apostacy. Adam: So there was a great period of time where there was no revelation on the earth, and the "truth" was changed or distorted in some way. Adam: to compensate for this, God, our Heavenly Father, revealed another book of scripture called the book of mormon to teach us the true doctrines about that which is not found in the bible. Mark: Well, that's pretty general. Although I appreciate this information. But is there any specific information sources that you could refer me to? Like when this occured (dates), who or what group took passages from the Bible and what exactly was taken from the Bible? Mark: Or should I just believe by faith that this did occur without any factual information to back it up? Adam: Well you bring up an interesting point...and that is definately a great question. Adam: Much of what we are expected to accept does require faith. Adam: that is a basic principle that God wants us to learn. Adam: However, I believe that there are definately answers to your questions, however regarding dates and groups of people, I am not informed on that information. Mark: Well, I can understand that principle. Especially since we can't prove God's existence. But if a portion of the Bible had been taken from it at some point in time then it seems to me that it should be verifiable and that would be a strong indication that my faith as a Christian is based on a fraud. But I would like facts instead of just taking someone's word. Adam: Well...it is definately worth researching. I don't want to give you false or uncomplete information, but I am aware of evidences about these truths being lost or changed. Mark: What is the source of your evidences? Adam: The real question should be, "is the book of mormon true or not?" Mark: That is a good question and if I could verify that portions of the bible were taken out then that would definately give the Book of Mormon more credibility, don't you think? Adam: Different scholars have researched the topic, but I have no information on that topic, nor can I tell you where you can find it... Adam: Sure it would... Adam: are you familiar with the promise that is given at the end of the Book of Mormon? Mark: I mean, I could believe that the Muslim scripture is the word of God but merely having faith in it doesn't make it so. Adam: Great point. Mark: So I would like some hard evidences that some of these Book of Mormon claims are real. Adam: The last prophet who wrote in the book of mormon told us how we can know... Mark: Joseph Smith? Adam: Well, I completely understand your desire to know, and I want you to know that there are things or evidences that can help us to know that these things are true, but the only true way to know that the Book of Mormon is a true book is by... Adam: 1. read from its pages 2.ponder it in your heart 3. pray to ask God if the things you have read are true Adam: then by the power of the Holy Ghost (feelings of joy, peace, love, happiness, etc.) you can know that these things are true. Adam: This is definately one of those 'testimonies' that requires faith. Mark: What if after I finish reading it and follow these steps, God tells me in my heart that it isn't true? Would it not be true then? Adam: If you Read with real intent to know if it is true, and you WANT to know for yourself, accepting it if it is or if it isn't, the response you get is your answer... Adam: but I want you to know that I have read the Book of Mormon... Adam: and I have prayed... Adam: and I continue to do so... Adam: and I know for myself that the Book is true. Mark: So there is the possibility that God would tell me it isn't true? Adam: God teaches us that if we desire to know if something is right, we will feel a Adam: burning in our bosom Adam: if it is not right...we will have no such feeling Adam: but we must have a true desire to know. Adam: otherwise the feeling will not come. Mark: So if my desire is true and the burning doesn't come, then it isn't true? Mark: How long do you have to keep praying until you know the burning isn't going to come or will come? Adam: then there's your answer...but I testify to you that it wasn't my answer...nor the answer of hundreds of thousands who have also read and prayed about the book... Adam: If you keep reading, with real intent, you will feel a peace, have an understanding... Adam: you have great questions... Adam: Tell God in your prayer that you want to know Adam: He will answer you, I promise. Mark: How many people didn't receive the burning? Do you have any numbers on how many those are? Adam: I can't tell you when or how, because it is God's will and timing... Adam: How many people have recieved a witness for themselves? Mark: If there were 10 million people who prayed and 5 million felt the burning and the other 5 million didn't feel it, then who is right? Adam: well the LDS church is the fastest growning church on the earth. Adam: I testify that it is God's church and that thousands each day recieve a personal witness that the book of mormon is true. Mark: Well, according to an article I read recently, the Assembly of God denomination is now the fastest. Mark: Is there a way I can get back with you to let you know if I get the burning or not? Adam: Ok, here's an analogy...in the days of Noah only one family believed what God had to say and they were the only ones who were not drowned in the flood... Adam: You can definately get back to me via chat. Adam: I would recommend you speak with your friend who is a member as well. Mark: How do I reach you on this chat? Adam: There are also representatives of the church, the missionaries, who would love to teach you more about the gospel, if you'd be interested. Adam: My specific shedule here varies... Adam: but there should usually be someone here to answer your questions. Adam: you can ask for Adam, if I'm around, I'll respond. Mark: I still need to find research into what parts of the Bible were taken and who took them. That is a major claim! Adam: But I hope you do read and pray...because I know God wants you to know. Adam: Ok, just remember, first comes faith, then God blesses us with a firm knowledge that things are true. Adam: I promise it will come if you have faith, and seek true knowledge with real intent Mark: I've looked and can't find any evidence that manuscripts were lost or stolen or ripped apart. So I will keep looking. Adam: Try praying first...about the book of mormon. Adam: Ask God, then things will unfold according to His will and timing for you. Mark: I have an idea. What if I pray about if the Bible is correct? Would the burning work for that too? Adam: Sure...the Holy Ghost testifies of all things that are true...for example, you may know in your heart that Christ is your savior. You've never seen Him, but you know, in your heart. You feel it's true. Adam: its not just the book of mormon, you're right. Adam: It is all things. Mark: Have you tried to pray and asked God if the Christians are correct? Adam: But we have to be listening to the Holy Ghost, because sometimes we get our answer, and we don't recognize it... Adam: What do you mean by the Christians? Adam: If chrisianity is the true religion? Mark: I mean those who believe the Bible is God's only true word. Adam: I have prayed to know Christ is my savior, and yes I know he is! Mark: Like evangelical christians. Adam: Oh, well I too believe the bible is true... Adam: I believe much of what they have is true... Adam: But I also know that the Book of Mormon is true, and that the Chruch of Latter-day Saints is the one true church on the earth today... Adam: that I have prayed about. Adam: That I do know. Adam: Not to say what other's believe is not true... Mark: Okay, it's just that both Christians and Mormons can't both be true. Either the gospel that Christians hold to is false or the Mormon gospel is false. Adam: Mormons are christians! We believe in Christ! Adam: But yes, you do need to find out if these things are true... Mark: But if Mormons are Christians then why are your beliefs so different than Christians? Mark: Why would I need to be a Mormon if we both are Christians? Are you saying that being a Mormon Christian is a step up from just a regular Christian? Adam: What I am saying is, the truth is found in the Book of Mormon, Joseph Smith was a true prophet of God, and we have a prophet leading the church today... Mark: And if you are a Christian, then why call yourself a Mormon? Why not just call yourself a Christian? Adam: Mormon is really just a nickname... Adam: catholics are catholics, baptists baptists, etc...officially we are "latter-day saints" Adam: but we are christian Mark: But your beliefs are so different than Christian beliefs. You and I can't both be Christians. That's like saying and apple and an orange are both oranges. Mark: Either catholics, baptists and other churches are not Christians and Mormons are or we are true Christians and you aren't. I don't see any other way to looking at it. Adam: We obviously have a different opinion about what "christian" means... Mark: What is your definition of a Christian? Adam: to me it means anyone who believes in Christ...that accepts Him as the savior of the world. That I believe with all my heart, and I know many of other faiths who believe the same. Mark: That's what I believe. So we are the same then. Adam: Yes...we both believe in Christ. Adam: Now add to that. Adam: Know for yourself that the book of mormon is true Adam: That Joseph Smith was a true prophet Mark: Okay, here is a question for you. Why do I need to add to me being a Christian? Adam: Well, as I mentioned before, the true gospel of Jesus Christ has been restored. This means that the AUTHORITY of God (priesthood)is found only in this church. The authority to baptize...to recieve the gift of the holy ghost...etc. Adam: all essential ordinaces to return to live with our father in heaven. Adam: You would love the message of the missionaries of the church Adam: they can answer so many of your questions in person Mark: Aren't you a missionary? Adam: I was a missionary for two years...we serve full time missions, but now I am a normal member of the church... Adam: there are missionaries in all parts of the world to share and teach these things Mark: Okay, I see. Do you get paid to chat? Adam: I help to train the missionaries before they leave on their missions, this chat is just a benefit of my job :). Mark: So getting back to your last statement, I can't just be a Christian to be with my Father in heaven? I have to be a Mormon? Adam: It's not about being MORMON, its about being baptized with the proper authority...following the counsel of the living prophet...living the true teachings found in the Book of Mormon etc. Adam: its not that all "mormons will be saved" Adam: it means that those who obey God's commandments... Mark: But being baptized with proper authority, following counsel and all that... isn't that being a Mormon? Adam: those who live the principles and ordinances of the gospel will be saved Adam: well, yes... Adam: I hope I haven't left you confused... Mark: So only being a Mormon will you see Father in heaven but being what I am (a Christian) will not get you there. Is that what you are saying? Because I believe that I will see my Father in heaven without being what you are, i.e. a Mormon. Mark: You are saying what I am is not good enough to be up there in heaven, I have to believe in Joseph Smith being a prophet, believe in the Book of Mormon as God's Word, believe all the teachings of the Mormon Church, etc? Adam: Yes...believe and live it. It is God's church, and His prophet...and His teachings. Mark: So being a Christian, i.e. believing in Christ as the Savior of the world, is not enough to get you to your Father in heaven. Mark: My Mormon friend told me that I will still get to heaven. That is why I asked you this because it contradicts what you are saying. Adam: Exactly right...although belief in Christ is good and essential...there are specific things that you have to do (i.e. baptism in God's church) to return to your Father in Heaven Mark: So should I tell my Mormon friend that he is wrong? Adam: Mark, you need to do those things I've told you. 1. read the Book of Mormon 2. Ponder in your heart 3. Pray to know it's true Adam: I've taught you true doctrines. Mark: Thanks, although they aren't true unless I get the burning, right? Adam: I strongly suggest meeting with the missionaries, there is only so much I can do to help you ONLINE to understand these things. Adam: You will feel by the feelings of the Holy Ghost. Adam: The bible describes those feelings in Galatians as peace, joy, love, longsuffering, happiness Adam: then you will know that these things are true Mark: What if I feel those feelings of the Holy Spirit right now already being a Christian? Mark: Because I do. Adam: Well Mark, as I said before, you can indeed feel the spirit now, because there are things you know and believe that are true. BUT, there is more, and your Father in Heaven wants you to learn of it. Adam: The Holy Ghost testifies of all things that are true. Adam: Do those three things. Adam: Read. Adam: Ponder. Adam: Pray. Mark: Well, I am pondering. That's why I came here to ask you about the precious things being taken from the bible. Mark: But I need more than just good feelings to know that the Book of Mormon is true. Adam: Ok, Mark, its a test of your faith now. I can't tell you how you'll know these things are true, but I testify God will answer your prayer if you pray with faith. Adam: Once you exercise your faith, you will know for sure. Mark: Okay, Adam, thanks for your time. God bless. Adam: I promise. Adam: Your very welcome. Adam: Great to meet you.



(http://www.autoadmit.com/thread.php?thread_id=625312&forum_id=2#8050294)