Donald Trump‘s counselor Kellyanne Conway said White House Press Secretary Sean Spicer used “alternative facts” when he blatantly lied stating the crowds at Trump’s swearing-in ceremony were “the largest audience to ever witness an inauguration, period, both in person and around the globe.”

Spicer gave a five-minute statement of lies to the press and claimed photos showing clearly that the audience for Barack Obama’s 2009 inauguration was significantly larger than Trump’s on Friday was an attempt by the media to “minimize enormous support that had gathered on the National Mall.” Despite the numerous photos that have been shown around the globe, from every angle, and without regard to those who were present at the event and witnessed the unbigly swearing-in ceremony.

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Appearing on NBC’s Meet the Press, Conway defended Spicer, and said his bold faced lies were “alternative facts.” When asked by host Chuck Todd why Spicer used his first appearance in front of the press to proclaim falsehoods, Conway said Todd was being “overly dramatic” about the statement.

“You’re saying it’s a falsehood, and they’re giving- Sean Spicer, our press secretary, gave alternative facts to that,” she said.

Todd countered Conway: “Alternative facts are not facts. They are falsehoods.”

Conway went on to say that it would be pointless to try figuring out how many people were in attendance at the inauguration because “those number cannot be quantified.” When Todd chuckled at this, she spent the final 15 to 20 seconds of the interview explaining how she will just ignore his laughter. Another alternative fact is that when you ignore something, you spend 20 seconds mentioning it on national television.

Here is the unedited interview during which Conway appears to threaten severing ties between the White House and the press. Watch her comments in full context below: