archived recording (rashida tlaib) And when your son looks at you and says, Mama, look, you won. Bullies don’t win. And I said, baby, they don’t. Because we’re going to go in there, and we’re going to impeach the [expletive]. [CROWD CHEERING] archived recording 1 A freshman Democrat from Michigan using vile language in public to call for the impeachment of President Trump. archived recording 2 Well, you know, she said on Twitter, I’m unapologetically me. You know, I’m not going to say I’m sorry. I’m not going to change. archived recording (elijah cummings) You cannot accomplish very much of anything unless you have civility. rashida tlaib You know, I have a little bit of a potty mouth. But, at the same time, it’s more because of my passion and just this fire that’s in me constantly about fighting for justice. michael barbaro Do you really think that you can stay like this? rashida tlaib I can. [MUSIC] archived recording Just a few days after her expletive-laden vow to impeach President Trump, Congresswoman Rashida Tlaib’s choice of words is making headlines again.

michael barbaro

When we last spoke with Congresswoman Rashida Tlaib, she had just fulfilled the fears of Democratic leaders that she, along with a handful of other progressive House freshmen, were going to push the party to places it didn’t want to go.

archived recording Tlaib recently said that members of Congress who support Israel forgot what country they represent.

michael barbaro

Since then —

archived recording The suggestion that someone may be more loyal to Israel than their home country is said to be a longstanding anti-Semitic attack.

michael barbaro

— it’s only gotten more intense.

archived recording This is a reprehensible charge of dual loyalty utterly unbecoming of a sitting member of Congress.

michael barbaro

In less than five months in office, Tlaib has made comments on the motivations of people who support Israel —

archived recording Both Congresswoman Omar as well as Rashida Tlaib, who’s also made problematic statements, both of whom back a boycott of the Jewish state.

michael barbaro

— that have raised accusations that she herself is anti-Semitic.

archived recording (rashida tlaib) Think about it. This is a diverse class. They’ve never had two Muslim women. They’ve never had a Palestinian-American. They’ve never had a woman that was a refugee. I mean, these are real-life impactful stories that come with us because our lens is so different.

michael barbaro

Tlaib has repeatedly denied that there’s any anti-Semitism behind what she’s said.

speaker

Hello.

michael barbaro

Hey. How are you?

speaker

Are you guys meeting with Rashida?

michael barbaro

The congresswoman? Yeah. I’m Michael Barbaro. Nice to meet you.

speaker

O.K. Nice to meet you.

michael barbaro

But she hasn’t really spoken at length about the controversy or explained where she’s coming from.

rashida tlaib

Hi.

michael barbaro

Hi. Michael Barbaro.

rashida tlaib

How’s it going?

michael barbaro

Good to see you.

jessica cheung

Hi. I’m Jess.

rashida tlaib

Hi, Jess.

michael barbaro

So a few weeks ago, we traveled back to visit her —

rashida tlaib

I do not miss this, by the way. [LAUGHS]

michael barbaro

You don’t miss what?

rashida tlaib

Oh, miss the interviews.

michael barbaro

— at her congressional office in Detroit. It’s Tuesday, May 14.

rashida tlaib

Yeah. You’d be surprised. I get a lot of requests. I say no. But I felt like I committed to you all, and I’ll continue.

michael barbaro

Thank you. So I want to actually go back to the beginning. Where does the Rashida Tlaib story start?

rashida tlaib

It starts with a Palestinian mother flying from Palestine to the United States. She believed she was pregnant with me on the airplane ride here. And the math does add up. [LAUGHS]

michael barbaro

And what is it like to grow up in the Tlaib house?

rashida tlaib

Well, at that time it was the Elabed home. That was my maiden name. But, I mean, growing up in my home, you know, I don’t think I remember my mother not pregnant. [LAUGHS] I’m the eldest of 14. We were always — we knew we were different. My mom — she still couldn’t speak very good English. She was picking up stuff, learning stuff. But when I started school, I didn’t speak English at all. I remember my mom walking me to school because she didn’t learn how to drive or anything. But we’d walk to school every day. She’d drop me off at kindergarten. And I was probably my mom’s translator until I was about 12 years old. It was funny. I remember specifically as a child being at a Sears counter — where Sears used to exist — and my mom wanted me to ask the cashier something. And at that moment, when the cashier was like, I don’t understand. Why doesn’t she just learn English? I said, ma’am, do you even see — and I raised my voice — do you even see that I’m not translating what you’re saying to her? I’m only translating what she’s saying to you, because she understands what you’re saying right now. And the woman’s like, oh. I said, yeah, because of her broken English, she gets yelled at, people raise their voice, and they disrespect her. So she doesn’t like to speak it because of the way people treat her. And I remember walking away and my mother just, like, pinching me and saying, I can never come back to this Sears store again. And I was like, it wasn’t that bad. And she’s like, oh, my God. Did you see —

michael barbaro

[INAUDIBLE] also kind of embarrassed her a little bit.

rashida tlaib

I always stand up for my mom. Even to this day, I’m constantly — she’s the one that’s like, shh. You don’t have to — no, no. Don’t say anything. It’s O.K. It’s O.K. And I’m like, did you see how he’s staring at you because you wear the hijab, Mama? She goes, shh. No, no, no. It’s O.K. Get back in the car. But I’ve always been that person.

michael barbaro

What’s the story that they told you about why they came to the U.S.?

rashida tlaib

I know from my mother it was about getting out of poverty. She talked about that. The fact that she felt what was happening with the occupation. There was so much already happening there that, for my mother, it was an out. It’s interesting, because I don’t think my mother believed there was poverty here. She didn’t. I don’t think she realized how hard it was here. We used to go to, like, Focus Hope and get food — like, dry beans, all the nasty powdered eggs. Like, I didn’t know all that stuff was food assistance or anything growing up. I mean, I didn’t really know I was poor probably until I was maybe in sixth grade. I started wanting certain things, and we just didn’t have the money for it.

michael barbaro

What was it like to be the oldest of 14 children?

rashida tlaib

I was like the third parent. I was very much overly responsible, constantly taking care — I mean, my mother didn’t understand homework. So helping my brothers and sisters with homework. I didn’t want them to struggle the way I did. I, at one point, was the one who made dinner all the time. And until everybody went to bed, I got to my homework and did my own homework, and sometimes stayed until 2 o’clock in the morning to get papers done. I was the one that people called to help.

michael barbaro

So it sounds like between — you and your mother are doing a lot of the parenting,

rashida tlaib

Mm-hmm.

michael barbaro

Right?

rashida tlaib

Yeah.

michael barbaro

That’s the portrait you’re outlining.

rashida tlaib

Yeah. My dad — I mean, my dad was always — I always remember him just working because he worked the night shift. And so during the day, he slept. And he was also really tough on us. Like, my way or the highway. And I can tell you, even being around him we kind of held our breath sometimes. And then when he was gone, it was like, O.K., you know? Because he constantly did not want us to have the same challenges and same issues that he did growing up. And he just always was very hard on us. Every time we would complain as kids, just even raking leaves, he’s like, let me tell you something. When I was seven years old, I was in Jerusalem, and I would have to carry people’s groceries on my back for just a little bit. Like, pennies. You have nothing to complain about.

michael barbaro

What comes to mind when you think about your father and the values that he talked about and tried to impose on you?

rashida tlaib

You know, one time I had a conversation with him and I was like, you’re so tough. You know, he was the person that if you got, like, pushed around, push back. That kind of person. You don’t let anybody push you around. You don’t let anybody tell you you don’t belong. You don’t let anybody tell you that you can’t do something. And — he just died a year ago. I don’t know why you guys wanna talk. Do we have to talk about my dad? I kind of don’t want to.

speaker

That’s fine.

rashida tlaib

O.K. I mean, look how I turned out. I turned out pretty tough. You can give my dad credit for that. He was the kind of person that, honestly, like, anybody pick on us, even on the block, they’re like — I’m telling my dad. And people were just afraid of him. He was just really tough. [MUSIC]

michael barbaro

I’m sorry that we upset you earlier by talking —

rashida tlaib

Oh, it’s O.K. This is a complex family. But I think it actually — it’s a very complex family, so —

michael barbaro

What kind of cultural gap is opening up between you and your parents at this point?

rashida tlaib

I think a lot of the cultural gap was about girls my age and what they could or could not do. You know, it’s like, there’s school, come home, you’ve got your chores, you’ve got things to do. But I do feel like being born a girl and then the Arab household did have these kind of cultural expectations of me.

michael barbaro

And what were those expectations?

rashida tlaib

You know, no boyfriends. Girls don’t curse. I started cursing very young.

michael barbaro

Most teenagers find a way to rebel. And knowing what I know about you, I have to imagine that you are rebellious. When did you start to become someone who was rebelling against your parents and your family?

rashida tlaib

Probably when I was 15.

michael barbaro

What happened then?

rashida tlaib

Nothing, it’s just — I got sick of the no’s. And so I was like, yeah.

michael barbaro

What were the no’s?

rashida tlaib

No’s to going on certain trips or being involved in certain activities at school. And, you know, this is to protect you, you know? And so I pushed up against that. I mean, it was huge fights. Explosive fights.

michael barbaro

When you were having conflicts with your parents at this age, so maybe middle school, high school, what are those conflicts?

rashida tlaib

I mean, like the senior trip, prom, things like that. It’s like, what’s that? Those are the difficulties of being a child of immigrants and them truly not understanding, like — and did I really truly need all those things? I don’t know. But I didn’t want to be left out of all the celebrations and things like that. So I got to go to prom, but I had to take my brother.

michael barbaro

[LAUGHS] You couldn’t take a date.

rashida tlaib

No.

michael barbaro

Because the date would represent what?

rashida tlaib

No. We couldn’t have boyfriends.

michael barbaro

You’re a senior in high school.

rashida tlaib

Oh, no. There’s no boyfriends. Are you serious? I got married at 21. Because at one point, the no’s just got so frustrating and got to the point where, I mean, as I got older, more womanly, I guess, I don’t know, that my dad and my mom were like — it was lockdown. It was school and home, and it wasn’t — you know, I wanted to go on trips, I wanted to possibly study abroad, and all that wasn’t going to be possible. And then I remember meeting this guy, my future husband, super quiet, shy, super sweet. And I jokingly said, I was like, I got married, I needed to get — and he goes, you’re using me. And it’s like, we were very much in love.

michael barbaro

Wait, I’m going to ask you to slow down. You can’t yada, yada, yada your way through marriage!

rashida tlaib

I know. [INAUDIBLE]

michael barbaro

So my question is, was it a kind of escape from a certain kind of childhood?

rashida tlaib

And my husband at that time, I mean, fiancé, he wanted to stay engaged longer. And I was the one like, no, we need to get married.

michael barbaro

Because that meant you could leave the house?

rashida tlaib

I could leave, but I also told him even dating would be a problem. You know, any of that would have been, like, this constant struggle with them. It was overly protective. I think they didn’t know any way of being parents. [MUSIC]

michael barbaro

We’ll be right back. How much a part of your childhood was your Muslim identity? How big a part of your life was that?

rashida tlaib

I mean, I grew up more Palestinian than Muslim or even Arab. I mean, I think being Palestinian, especially in the ‘80s and ‘90s, and everything that was happening — it’s, like, constantly in the news. It was constantly a topic of conversation at gatherings. We would be in settings where they’re like, oh, I’m 1948. In 1948, he was displaced, and he had to leave.

michael barbaro

With the creation of Israel.

rashida tlaib

Yeah. Or, oh, I’m ‘67.

michael barbaro

Displaced in 1967.

rashida tlaib

Displaced in 1967. Yeah. And so all of that was so — you know, as a young child, you can hear — and these are people that you’re interacting with at weddings, and gatherings, and things like that.

michael barbaro

So with that in mind, what’s the story that you are absorbing about the Palestinian-Israeli conflict? You’re hearing bits and pieces of it. But by the time you’re in high school, what’s the story, as you understand it, of the conflict?

rashida tlaib

Well, I mean — so I went to a predominantly black high school, and it was the first year that Detroit Public Schools started requiring African-American history. And I remember we got these — I want to say they were orange — brand new books. And they were all talking about segregation. Some of the most oppressive times of Black Americans in our country. All this stuff. And as they were talking, there were so many similarities of what I saw as a 12-year-old with my mom. I remember going for my uncle’s wedding —

michael barbaro

In the Palestinian territories.

rashida tlaib

Yeah. Even at the airport, how we were treated there, to segregated lines, to even when we were trying to go to my grandfather’s house, we had to go through maybe — I don’t know what you want to call it. Israel or Pal — I don’t know where it was at that moment. I was 12. But I knew we had to go through a checkpoint. There was two different colored license plate — yellow and blue. So if you had blue license plate, you couldn’t travel in certain areas or something. So it was very segregated. And then, for me, that connectivity of what African-American struggle went through with segregation, and oppression, and inequality — like, the fact that you’re born here but you’re not equal because of the color of your skin. And so thinking about my grandmother, who was born there but doesn’t have equality, is treated less than.

michael barbaro

As a Palestinian.

rashida tlaib

As a Palestinian. Yeah. So much of that is connected to growing up in the city of Detroit, to seeing what’s happening to my ancestors in Palestine. There’s so much connectivity, and that’s how I see it.

michael barbaro

What was the basic story that your mom and dad, having come from the Palestinian territories, that they told you about what had happened?

rashida tlaib

Growing up, my dad — for him, it’s like, our land was taken. We were uprooted. It was about power and about struggle. And then I started seeking it out myself. I think even starting with what happened in the Holocaust and how that led to the movement of creating a Jewish state, right? All that part wasn’t really explained, right? The sense of safe haven. It almost gave you a little bit of peace, of like, O.K. All right. I get it. All right. But then how do you equate that as, like — was it really, truly O.K., then, to completely displace a whole people? To take away everything that they know? Their way of life, their land, all of that.

michael barbaro

You were in law school when 9/11 happened.

rashida tlaib

Yeah.

michael barbaro

And can you tell me about that?

rashida tlaib

I was taking weekend classes. And I can’t remember what — and it was during the week that it happened. It was a weekday. Because I worked full-time. I was the executive assistant to the largest Arab-American human services agency in the country, Access.

michael barbaro

Mm-hmm.

rashida tlaib

And that morning, it was maybe between 8:00 or 9:00 in the morning, people were in the lunchroom. Very small. It was a very, very small room. I didn’t know what was going on, but then I heard gasps. And then I ran and I saw a couple of my colleagues crying. I was like, oh, my God. What’s happening? We started seeing these images. And then we can hear, like, the screams from the TV. We all started crying, and I was like, oh, my God. And then not even within, like, an hour or two, we had to stop mourning, because we started getting calls of — threatening calls. Our executive director was driving in, and some young people showed up and started throwing bottles. At that moment, it became very real that being Muslim in America was going to be completely different. My sister who was in, I think, third grade, Layla, came home upset and saying that somebody in her class — because the teacher asked if anybody had any questions, and somebody in her class raised their hand and said, does this mean we have to kill Layla? And then my other brother — somebody called the 800 number on him. And, sure enough, the F.B.I. showed up at his home. People probably don’t remember, but after 9/11, they kept putting this 800 number up and say, call if you have any suspicious person. So they called on him. I don’t know. I mean, you’ve got to meet with Rashad. Like, he’s not — he’s just a — he was kind of a punk kid back then and just, like, partied like everybody else. I was always worried that he wasn’t going to class. I constantly called him. And then my parents were interviewed by the F.B.I. It was horrifying because when they showed up to my mom’s house, they surrounded the house like it was a military operation with, you know, big guns and everything. My sister was so little and she’s like, mama, what’s all that? And they’re all around the house and came barging in. It scared the shit out of my mom. They spent the most time with my father. They went from the first time my dad came to the country and went through every single thing. They already knew all the answers. My dad stayed calm and didn’t — he looked tired after it was done. My mother was confused constantly. They kept showing her pictures. Do you know this person? I don’t know. They all look alike. I think I saw them on TV. Like, I don’t know. My mom was awful. Yeah.

michael barbaro

How’d that make you feel?

rashida tlaib

Helpless. I literally told my mom, put me on speaker. I don’t know where I was. I was not in town. And I kept telling her, don’t guess. Don’t guess. You know, trying to teach my mom that it’s O.K. if you don’t know. And they could see that —

michael barbaro

So she wouldn’t accidentally say something that would get her in trouble.

rashida tlaib

Well, that or she felt like she needed to identify — that’s what they wanted her to do. She goes, I feel like they want me to choose. I said, don’t. Have you ever met any of them? No. That’s what you say. Obviously, they weren’t detained or charged with any kind of anything, but it was horrifying. There was so much happening all at once. People getting knocks on their door from the F.B.I., not knowing what to do. Detaining them at the airport. It was so much all at once. And then I decided to do policy work at that moment. And my dad, who was probably the more politically active — when I turned 18, he literally said, go register to vote. He was all about that. I said, Baba, I’m going to run for state representative. And he said, who’s going to vote for you after — you’re Arab. Who’s going to vote for you after 9/11? Yeah. My mom, though — I mean, she’s like, does this mean you’re not going to have any more kids? [LAUGHS] My mother is very focused. Yeah. [MUSIC]

michael barbaro

I wonder if you think it’s ironic that you’ve now become the most visible — in a way, most visible Muslim woman in America, if you see an irony here. You grow up rebelling against a certain set of expectations about what it means to be an Arab woman, and now you’re one of the most visible Arab women in the country. Is that a bit ironic?

rashida tlaib

Sure. It is. But probably but for the fact that I’m this way, maybe I would have never reached where I’m at now. Maybe if I kept listening to my father saying no one’s going to vote for me, maybe if I kept listening to my mother saying have another baby, I would never probably have been able to serve not only the Michigan legislature, but now in the United States Congress. [MUSIC]

michael barbaro

You spoke this week at a law school.

rashida tlaib

Yeah.

michael barbaro

And you said, I’m more Palestinian in Congress than I am anywhere in the country or in the world. Can you talk more about that? What does that mean?

rashida tlaib

I say that more and more often. I’ve been to Palestine. I’m the [SPEAKING ARABIC] there, which means, like, the American girl. And here in Detroit, I’m just a Detroiter. I’m Rashida from southwest. Oh, you’re the girl from southwest. I have never felt so Palestinian than I did in Congress. To so many, I’m just that. That’s how they identify me as. More, even so, than being Muslim.

andy mills

And why do you think that is?

rashida tlaib

I think this issue around Palestine and Israel is strong. It’s stronger than I ever thought it was. I mean, I knew that, obviously, it’s a huge conflict, it’s a continued challenge, it’s — there’s so much disagreements between those on the inside and the institution and those on the outside. I know that much because I’ve been on the outside looking in and saying, yo, you know, it’s so unbalanced. Why aren’t you talking about Palestinian human rights? And why aren’t you talking about both sides, not just one? I think I was naive thinking that me being there might have been this value for the caucus of, like, wow. This is incredible. We have a member of Congress who has a living grandmother in the West Bank in the occupied territories in Palestine. What a tremendous opportunity. Use me as a source of information. But not only that, you might be able to see a side to this issue that might actually lead us to peace.

michael barbaro

I want to engage this because I think it’s really important when it comes to the subject of Israel and defending the Palestinian cause. And it’s you and Ilhan Omar who are the focus of this because you’ve been bringing the party — both of you — into a conversation that it’s not entirely comfortable having about the U.S. relationship with Israel and with the Palestinian issue. You are progressive — quite progressive — and you are proudly Muslim. And correct me if you feel I’m wrong. It feels like these two things have kind of collided.

rashida tlaib

It did.

michael barbaro

So how do you think about that when you think about the kind of two parts of your identity?

rashida tlaib

I mean, at the time, when I talk about these issues, I talk about the values. I don’t talk about based on my identity, but I talk about values. Ilhan Omar and I have been very consistent that Palestinians deserve equality, justice, human dignity. By even saying that alone, being who we are is somehow more charged than somebody else that would say it. But if you hear us talking about comprehensive immigration reform and children are being caged at the border, it’s the same values as when we say Palestinians don’t deserve to be detained in Israeli prisons.

michael barbaro

Mm-hmm. So something about your identity elevates it when you say it or when Ilhan Omar says it.

rashida tlaib

We’re still taken aback by it. The fact that we can say certain things — and you would think that people say, of course, her grandmother’s in Palestine. Of course she’s going to say that. Why wouldn’t she? It’s more of like, hm, she must be anti-Semitic.

andy mills

I feel like those two things are completely — you said, we were just talking about our values, not our identities. And then you just said, well, we’ve got to take into account my identity. I’ve got a grandmother in Palestine.

rashida tlaib

Yeah.

andy mills

I don’t know if you can have it both ways. Do you think that it’s some mix of —

rashida tlaib

I understand that. I understand. I’m just telling you all, like, for me, I’m very proud Palestinian. I don’t even shy away from it. But when I say certain things, obviously, it’s different layers in there because it’s rooted in racism. It’s rooted in the fact that I’m a brown Arab Muslim saying Palestinians should be free. I don’t know if any of my other colleagues could say that with them getting maybe targeted. They might get targeted, and I heard that some of them have in the past. This is on a different scale, when it comes to Ilhan Omar, especially. Going after her, policing her words, policing everything she does. It is a way to discredit her voice. It’s a way to discredit who she is. And they’re using her identity, in many ways, to make her words maybe weighed less than.

michael barbaro

What do you make of that charge? You use that word, anti-Semitism. What do you make of that charge? It’s generally been leveled more at Ilhan Omar, but also you.

rashida tlaib

Yeah. I mean, it’s painful when people say — at first, I didn’t kind of believe — I was like, it’s probably just a few claims. And then people started writing about it and it started becoming this — is this a possibility? And I was like, absolutely not. It is absurd because I am criticizing state of Israel, just like I do my own country sometimes. It is so that we can promote equality, and justice, and so forth. There is nothing anti-Semitic about it.

michael barbaro

So what do you make of or — if you try really hard to put yourself —

rashida tlaib

I can’t guess what they’re saying, Michael. Michael, you’re asking me to read their minds. I can’t read their minds. I cannot. I don’t know what —

michael barbaro

Can you read the minds of people who say, we think Rashida is dog-whistling. And just —

rashida tlaib

Oh, boy.

michael barbaro

I’m asking you if you can put yourself in the heads of people who say, here is a very sophisticated person who seems to understand when the other side is communicating something very particular and subtly, and they may think — they do think — she’s doing that here. Ilhan Omar is doing that here, too. They’re saying this about Bibi Netanyahu. They’re saying this. They’re talking about dual loyalty. They’re using this language in a tweet. Do you have a special obligation to be super careful in your word choice, and can you appreciate why some people — some Jewish people and their supporters — see things you’re saying and think, I think she knows what she’s doing?

rashida tlaib

I would never, ever want anything I say to lead to more hate towards those of Jewish faith. And that’s why I’m very careful when I talk about that issue, because I don’t want people to think that’s about Judaism. It isn’t. It’s not about that. It is about the same power struggles and structures that we see even in our own country between those that have and those that don’t. However, I expect the same from those that maybe criticize us — criticize Ilhan and me. I expect them to also be very measured about how they do it so they’re not promoting Islamophobia.

andy mills

Has the experience you’ve had over the last 100 days alongside Ilhan Omar made you — brought you to a place where it feels like you want to speak out more about this issue, or does it make it feel like you’ve said what you need to say, and maybe now you’re going to switch to other issues that you care about and maybe be a little bit quieter?

rashida tlaib

No. I can equally do both, right? But I feel much more of a responsibility to speak out. The more they try to shut me up, the more I speak out. The more they try to bully me, the more I speak out. You know that even on B.D.S., I never had a stance on it until they tried to criminalize it.

michael barbaro

So when your colleague said that boycotting and divesting from Israel should be much harder to do, that’s when you decided I’m going to support this?

rashida tlaib

Yeah. I actually came out when I heard they’re going to move the anti-B.D.S. bill. And the first thing I thought about was all the young people, everybody that I’ve met, that truly believes in economic boycott. But also growing up here, we learned about how economic boycott got us closer to, at least, a viable civil rights movement in our country.

michael barbaro

Do you see all of this as kind of the inevitability of diversity in Congress? Is it inevitable that with a more diverse group of lawmakers in the House will come perspectives that are going to challenge the way that the party approaches this? The party line on Israel, having the daughter, the granddaughter of a Palestinian living in the West Bank in the party in the House.

rashida tlaib

I don’t even just think it’s this issue. I think it’s a lot of other issues. Issues around poverty, issues around L.G.B.T.Q., issues around immigration. All of those issues that we’re facing — economic justice. This class is bolder and more courageous. And it’s not just the four that everybody concentrates on. It is an incredible class. Some of the people that picked up seats that were previously held by Republicans signed on to the Green New Deal. Some are on supporting “Medicare for all.” You wouldn’t have saw that a few years ago. I say this a lot, but, yeah, we look differently, but we also serve and fight differently, this new Congress. [MUSIC]

andy mills

Can I ask you, does it feel different, our visit now, than before? And if so, what about it feels different?

rashida tlaib

When you first met me, I just felt like there was this big rainbow outside, and it was just, like, looming over the Capitol. But then the storms came, the lightning. All of that came, and it’s much more of a difficult journey. And I still feel it, but it feels different. It’s much harder than I thought — you want to change the world. That it’s all before me. And it’s tough. It’s tougher than people think.

michael barbaro

Thank you again for your time.

rashida tlaib

Thanks. Thank you, Michael. Thank you, Andy. Thank you, Jess. Thank you. [MUSIC]

michael barbaro

Over the weekend, in an interview on the Yahoo podcast “Skullduggery,” Rashida Tlaib was asked about her position that the solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict would be to create a single state for Israelis and Palestinians rather than two separate states.

archived recording So what is your vision for a one-state solution that meets both Palestinian and Israeli Jewish national aspirations? archived recording (rashida tlaib) Absolutely. And let me tell you — I mean, for me, I think two weeks ago or so, we celebrated, or just took a moment, I think, in our country to remember the Holocaust. And there’s a kind of a calming feeling, I always tell folks, when I think of the Holocaust, and the tragedy of the Holocaust, and the fact that it was my ancestors, Palestinians, who lost their land, and some lost their lives, their livelihood, the human dignity, their existence, in many ways, have been wiped out — on some people’s passports — I mean, just all of it was in the name of trying to create a safe haven for Jews post the Holocaust, post the tragedy and horrific persecution of Jews across the world at that time.

michael barbaro

Many House Republicans have responded by suggesting Tlaib meant that the Holocaust itself gave her a calming feeling, not the creation of a state for the Jewish people following the Holocaust.

archived recording (rashida tlaib) And I love the fact that it was my ancestors that provided that, right, in many ways. But they did it in a way that took their human dignity away, right? And it was forced on them. And so when I think about one state, I think about the fact that, why couldn’t we do it in a better way?

michael barbaro