READER COMMENTS ON

"Wisconsin 'Government Accountability Board' Shuts Down Recall Election Exit Polling"

(38 Responses so far...)





COMMENT #1 [Permalink]

... WhichTruth said on 7/13/2011 @ 11:54 am PT...





What have they to hide? Maybe the real election next month?

COMMENT #2 [Permalink]

... betterthannosn said on 7/13/2011 @ 12:12 pm PT...





Will these people never cease in trying to subvert elections?

As far as exit polling, even if they are conducted, there is no guarantee that it will carry any weight. Just take Ohio 2004, a 5% point swing in exit polling and the MSM throws out the results as utterly meaningless. It does give us a post-mortem leg to stand on to argue election fraud, but the sheeple don't seem to be interested.

COMMENT #3 [Permalink]

... mick said on 7/13/2011 @ 12:36 pm PT...





Exit polls only count in the Ukraine because they are a democracy .And the irony is it was American pressure based on the exit polls that brought about a new election.

Remember the anti-war candidate in the last US Presidential election ?

Well he actually won ,how did that turn out for you ?

COMMENT #4 [Permalink]

... Jeannie Dean said on 7/13/2011 @ 1:42 pm PT...





Great summation, Emily! Thank you so much for posting this so quickly! Yah, that was one of the strangest things to come out of yesterday's WI RECALL Primaries. And fyi, all - that's District 8 - in WAUKESHA CO, where the devious Alberta Darling is being challenged in the August election. She is HATED by our WI friends... I will circulate this piece to the best of my limited ability (posted to both FB EI page and Wi Citizens for Election Protection). And while I'm honking on, I really want to post a ginormous THANK YOU to the WCEP and ALL the folks on both FB pages / all the groups on-line helping to monitor the Primary elections, yesterday. It. Was. Some sight to behold. From 30,00 feet, it was an inspiring citizen election protection ballet; or...from aerial perspective more like a Busby Berkeley number, without all the feather distractions. I finally slept sound last night for the first time in months, btw. Yesterday was the first election I've watched in years that I didn't feel was being openly swiped, with me miles away feeling helpless; the first time I've felt good about elections in this country in over a decade. THANK YOU SO MUCH, WI, for that gift... Priceless. Invaluable. Faith in People. Hope in our Future. Hope that enough of us watching can change the outcome of the (potentiallly) stolen elections ahead. I know we haven't "fixed" it, but oh! Yesterday was a GREAT start!"

COMMENT #5 [Permalink]

... Jeannie Dean said on 7/13/2011 @ 1:45 pm PT...





(Oh, and thank you Brad! Hope you're in fact somewhere *not* reading this, far away in the distant greenery of some remote mountain-y place...with plenty of cigarettes to make it a grand, relaxing time. xoxo!)

COMMENT #6 [Permalink]

... Dredd said on 7/14/2011 @ 6:42 am PT...





Accuracy and verification seem to have no place in elections there because they are all busy conflating the size of government.

COMMENT #7 [Permalink]

... Raven said on 7/14/2011 @ 9:55 am PT...





Jeannie Dean: "[T]he devious Alberta Darling... is HATED by our WI friends..." No, no, please, the right wing already keeps accusing us of being the haters. Don't fall into that wording and hand them cites. "Hate" suggests wishing to do physical harm to someone. I don't think WI voters feel that way about Alberta Darling. Not at all. We may despise her, detest her, revile her, and recoil from her, but that's because of her hateful behavior in office, and we'd be happy merely to see her gone from it --- into a long and peaceful private life. There's all the difference in the world, you see?

COMMENT #8 [Permalink]

... Jeannie Dean said on 7/14/2011 @ 11:09 am PT...





Ha! Yes, you're right, Raven. Important distinction. I should have chosen my words more carefully. Thank you for pointing me to the light! ...and Congratulations on getting one step closer to that goal, seeing Darling GONE from her post, peacefully, through one man = one vote. We are SO proud of you guys, wanna buy the whole state a brat and a (local) brew!

COMMENT #9 [Permalink]

... Chris Hooten said on 7/14/2011 @ 7:56 pm PT...





How in the world do they do this shit without it ending up in the papers? There is only one reason to stop exit polling.

COMMENT #10 [Permalink]

... Raven said on 7/14/2011 @ 8:03 pm PT...





Chris: ... because of the well-known inaccuracy of exit polls (where people hand-mark physical paper ballots that can be rechecked), compared to the official count on our infallllllllllllll+7000ible (untraceable, unauditable, trade-secreted) computers?

COMMENT #11 [Permalink]

... mick said on 7/15/2011 @ 2:20 am PT...





VOTE FRAUD AND THE BANKRUPTCY OF THE UNITED STATES Michael Rivero http://whatreallyhappene...ICLES/ARTICLE3/index.php In recent months, I have posted a series of article on the deplorable and quite frankly hopeless financial situation the government of the United States is presently in due to reckless and outright irresponsible fiscal policy.

COMMENT #12 [Permalink]

... Brad Friedman said on 7/15/2011 @ 8:01 am PT...





Mick - Wow. That article presents an amazing amount of inaccuracies, errors and, in a number of instances, outright horseshit. You'd think someone writing, even cursorily, about the accuracy of voting machines would bother to be accurate, at least sorta, in their reporting. Or someone writing about "vote fraud" would make sure their article wasn't full of fraudulent "facts". If you'd think that, however, you'd be wrong, as that horrible article demonstrates. What a pity.

COMMENT #13 [Permalink]

... monkeybreath said on 7/15/2011 @ 5:01 pm PT...





what are the chances the places where they found the violation-they were done by republican plants on purpose

COMMENT #14 [Permalink]

... charley said on 7/15/2011 @ 6:28 pm PT...





Mick-

The guy who runs Media Matters was the guy who wrote the Bill Clinton hit pieces bribing officers to lie about rape and murder. All lies. Be care ful who you get your facts from. Big business in the US has always used racism and scapegoating to keep the white Americans scared (see Civil War and slavery). The biggest of all is the Military Industrial Complex given the name by conservative president Eisenhower in the 1950s. These companies Hali-burton/KBR/BP(own 80% of our military oil contracts)/all oil companies/George HW Bush's The Carlyle Group. All of these companies have to create Fox News to keep ever lasting war. 60% of our tax money goes to defense so these men are stealing from your children. Because of the money involved they will steal votes or bribe or kill anyone who gets in their way. See Rupert Murdoch in both England and the US. He forced Tony Blair by bribery and beating the war drum to go to war with Bush. BP made tons off the war in the US and England. We are in a huge hole because of 2 10 year wars and Bush lowered taxes. I do agree that the US is doomed finacially because conservatives will steal elections until we are broke. We will have to go French Revolution on these thieves at some point.

COMMENT #15 [Permalink]

... Dredd said on 7/15/2011 @ 6:32 pm PT...





Traditionally, Brad Blog has had a favorable impression about exit polling: Example post. Also note this:

Exit polling is a well-developed science, informed by half a century of experience and continually improving methodology (Exit Poll Science, PDF).

COMMENT #16 [Permalink]

... Raven said on 7/15/2011 @ 6:32 pm PT...





Monkeybreath: Or by well-meaning volunteers who had never done exit polling before, and didn't understand (or didn't remember) rules like the 100-foot limit, and the bit about "exit" polling taking place as people exit the voting area, not as they enter.... "Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by..." um, naivete?

COMMENT #17 [Permalink]

... mick said on 7/15/2011 @ 10:18 pm PT...





re #12 ,any actual examples of the "amazing amount of inaccuracies, errors and, in a number of instances, outright horseshit." ?

COMMENT #18 [Permalink]

... Jeannie Dean said on 7/16/2011 @ 2:29 am PT...





Raven - Um. No. the WI residents doing the polling were being guided by EDA - that's election defense alliance (www.electiondefensealliance.com). They are well versed election exit polling specialists with a history of such efforts. The GAB had granted the volunteers permission on ALL COUNTS, everything had been cleared for their "exit polling" beforehand via a letter / can furnish it for you, if you'd like to see it, confirming 10 feet was fine as long as promotional materials were not being handed out for any candidate. ...then the Police were called in and the GAB changed their position (only in Menominee Falls, btw, the OTHER Waukesha Co. in District 8, Butler Village, had no problems conducting their exit polls per the same stipulations as had been outlined by the group in Menominee Falls)... The GAB's explanation for this was that the group in Menominee Falls were now "ELECTIONEERING", a distinction the GAB had made clear in their original letter, now conflated - because the group had an exit poll with the candidates NAMES on them... ...that is how exit polling is traditionally done.

The general rule is that ALL the candidates on the ballot must be listed, as the Volunteers on the ground had seen to.

COMMENT #19 [Permalink]

... Jeannie Dean said on 7/16/2011 @ 2:33 am PT...





...video of GAB's explanation on record from WI volunteer who called for clarification from the GAB's Mike Haas. Haas hangs up when confronted with this inherent contradiction in his own policy: http://www.youtube.com/u...mhee#p/a/f/2/Ja3I5LKWHQU ...hm. The video seems to have been temporarily disabled, but instead now freezes on the GAB statement re: EXIT POLLING RULES. (Correction to my above post: EDA is www.electiondefensealliance.org - my bad.)

COMMENT #20 [Permalink]

... Jeannie Dean said on 7/16/2011 @ 2:40 am PT...





Link works. Video's up! Bryan must've just altered the screenshot from the last edit to highlight the GAB's own stipulations. Audio is amazing...

COMMENT #21 [Permalink]

... Brad Friedman said on 7/16/2011 @ 11:31 am PT...





Mick asked @ 17: any actual examples of the "amazing amount of inaccuracies, errors and, in a number of instances, outright horseshit." ? Sure. Here's just a few... Since 1964, right after John F. Kennedy was assassinated, vote tabulation for national elections has been handled not by the government, but by a private company lacking any official oversight at all. This company, which changes its name on a regular basis, is currently called "Voters News Service". The above is, of course, complete and utter nonsense. VNS does not now nor has it ever handled "vote tabulation for national elections". This is the voting process most in use in America today. A voter punches a card in the voting booth. That card is run through a computer at the local voting center, then that computer contacts computers at Voters News Service Now there is no date stamp on the article you linked to, so I don't have any idea when it was written. Since it refers to "voter punches a card in the voting booth" above, that means it's a really old article (since punch cards are no more), or it's just flat out wrong. The article seems to pull a lot of stuff from the Collier brothers Votescam book from the 80s, so I don't know if the article was written long ago, or is just pulling stuff now from that book even though much of the info would be outdated by now. All the voting machines used in the United States come from just three companies. The Presidents of two of them have been convicted of vote fraud and yet all state governments continue to do business (at very steep fees) with just these three companies. There are more than "just three companies" that supply voting machines in the U.S., though until a year or so ago, it could be said that most of the machines come from 3 companies (even though that would be inaccurate also, as there were, largely, 4 large voting machines companies, and a number of much smaller ones). That all has changed in the last year with the sales/purchases of both Sequoia and Diebold, but in any case, the statement that "all the voting machines used in the U.S. come from just three companies" was, to my knowledge, never actually true --- at least not in the last decade or two. Moreover, I'm aware of none of the companies' "Presidents....hav[ing] been convicted of vote fraud". I'm still on the road, so working quickly here. But as you asked for examples, that is just a very few of them. There are many more such inaccuracies in the article, as I originally mentioned. But hopefully that gives you a quick idea and may help you to be more skeptical about articles you come across on the Internets.

COMMENT #22 [Permalink]

... mick said on 7/16/2011 @ 3:32 pm PT...





Thanks for your reply ,I'll forward it to the writer and see if he has a response .

COMMENT #23 [Permalink]

... Barb Truitt said on 7/16/2011 @ 8:41 pm PT...





From Jeannie Dean's post - "then the Police were called in and the GAB changed their position (only in Menominee Falls, btw, the OTHER Waukesha Co. in District 8, Butler Village, had no problems conducting their exit polls per the same stipulations as had been outlined by the group in Menominee Falls)... The GAB's explanation for this was that the group in Menominee Falls were now "ELECTIONEERING", a distinction the GAB had made clear in their original letter, now conflated - because the group had an exit poll with the candidates NAMES on them..." Jeannie? The group in Butler also had issues with their attempts to poll voters. They were moved several times, and the poll workers and the police chief informed them they had to be at least 100 feet from the entrance doors because, as described about Menomonee Falls, they were considered to be "electioneering."

I think there was a lot of suspicion about the whole process to begin with, but by the end of the day everyone was more cordial. This was the first time out for most of the people involved, so even though they had permission from the GAB to do what they tried to do, they weren't sure of their position. As it turned out, they moved their table and materials to the parking lot, which was outside the 100 feet, and did what they could from there. Their totals were very close, in spite of the fact they couldn't catch everyone from the 100 foot range.

The "real" elections in August should go a lot smoother, and hopefully mainstream media will provide information about this process to everyone ahead of the first election on August 9 so voters and poll workers will know what to expect.

COMMENT #24 [Permalink]

... Chris Hooten said on 7/16/2011 @ 10:41 pm PT...





Exit polling has historically been EXTREMELY accurate, Raven. Only recently has it mysteriously wavered, and there is no reason to lose confidence in it because of that. One would be much wiser to assume there were problems with the election results themselves. Since when have we considered them inaccurate, and why? And is that sufficient to ignore the years of near perfect exit poll results? Why can't we post results on a precinct basis? With the Pentagon and everyone else hacked lately, why would you trust computerized vote counting?

COMMENT #25 [Permalink]

... Chris Hooten said on 7/16/2011 @ 10:44 pm PT...





The point is, we don't NEED to trust. We need to not trust, and need multiple methods of verifying the vote, and frankly, we need to use paper ballots, and hand count the results, posting them on the precinct level, and then adding them together.

COMMENT #26 [Permalink]

... Jeannie Dean said on 7/17/2011 @ 2:35 am PT...





Oh, thank you *so* much for that clarification, Barb! (#23) Yes, what Barb said. (LOVELY to see you, here BKT! xoxox!)

COMMENT #27 [Permalink]

... Dredd said on 7/17/2011 @ 7:29 am PT...





What Christ Hooten said.

COMMENT #28 [Permalink]

... Dredd said on 7/17/2011 @ 7:49 am PT...





oops typo: I meant what Chris Hooten said.

COMMENT #29 [Permalink]

... Chris Hooten said on 7/17/2011 @ 2:56 pm PT...





Psst, I'm pretty sure no one could possibly have been confused about that not being a typo, unless they came from the the capital of crazytown itself, P.atter.ico .com

COMMENT #30 [Permalink]

... Karen Renick said on 7/17/2011 @ 8:52 pm PT...





It's a sad state of affairs when those in positions to supposedly uphold "accountability" don't even understand what real openness and transparency in elections truly are as evidenced by Reid Magney's statement [my comments in brackets]: "Let me add that Wisconsin has a long tradition of openness and transparency in its elections. Citizens are allowed and encouraged to serve as election observers. They can observe the public test of voting equipment prior to the election. [These tests are basically a sham and prove only that the machines work in "Test Mode", not "Election Mode".] They can observe inside the polling place. [Yes, but they can observe nothing to do with the actual vote counting process.] They can be present after the polls close when the voting equipment is opened and the vote totals are announced. [Yes, but this is after the votes have all been counted secretly inside the machines.] They can view the tape from the machine. [Whoopee! Ditto my previous remark.] They can observe the canvass process. [What good is this if they are canvassing secretly counted vote totals?]" Even sadder is the fact that the general public doesn't get it either. Keep up the great effort up there in WI, y'all! VoteRescue is with you guys in spirit!

COMMENT #31 [Permalink]

... Raven said on 7/17/2011 @ 10:40 pm PT...





Chris Hooten #24: I thought my spelling of "infallible" (with the embedded "+7000" in tribute to Wakesha County) in comment #10 was a dead giveaway of snark.

COMMENT #32 [Permalink]

... Raven said on 7/17/2011 @ 10:55 pm PT...





Jeannie Dean #18: The GAB had waived the 100-foot limit down to 10 feet, and then reneged? Not nice. But how about the other complaint, handing people materials on their way *into* the voting area? That would legitimately trigger concerns about "electioneering" (before the GAB could study the actual materials closely), whereas materials handed out as people *leave* the voting area can't affect how they vote.

COMMENT #33 [Permalink]

... Dredd said on 7/18/2011 @ 5:37 am PT...





Raven said:

But how about the other complaint, handing people materials on their way *into* the voting area? That would legitimately trigger concerns about "electioneering" (before the GAB could study the actual materials closely), whereas materials handed out as people *leave* the voting area can't affect how they vote. (#32). That is a good point. Exit polling people have no business talking to anyone except those exiting the polling place who willingly want to talk to them about their vote and why they voted as they did.

COMMENT #34 [Permalink]

... colinjames said on 7/21/2011 @ 7:03 pm PT...





Well, at least he responded to the email, admitted he was wrong, and so far seems to have come to an arrangement for the next election. That's more than you get from most of the jackals covered by BradBlog over the years. The part about Wisconsin's glowing election record or whatever, that's the typical boilerplate response you'll get from any office or legislator. The venomous repsonses seem a little bit disproportionate on this one. That said, if they pull some shady move on the next election I'm right there with ya.

COMMENT #35 [Permalink]

... charles dippel said on 7/22/2011 @ 8:07 pm PT...





Ink on paper you know i'am right

COMMENT #36 [Permalink]

... Jeannie Dean said on 7/24/2011 @ 1:14 pm PT...





Raven / Dredd ~ Sorry it took me awhile to respond / didn't see your comments here until just now. I'm not sure, to be honest, if voters were approached on the way IN to the polling place in Menominee Falls by the citizen exit pollsters. I would *think* not, considering EDA's (Jonathan Simon's / Sally Castleman's) years and years of experience doing exit polls in other states... If they were, it may have been just to let voters know why they were there. If they were suddenly asked to move to the 100ft location (for "electioneering") as opposed to the previously approved 10ft rule ("for exit polling") the exit pollsters may have had limited access to voters coming and going...might have approached them before hand to let them know about the exit poll happening 100ft away. Consider also that the clerk / GAB said voters had "complained" about the exit pollsters' presence, but we found that confusing as the WI volunteers were reporting that voters there were generally friendly and open to their efforts. I will ask my friends who are heading up the volunteer efforts in WI about this just to clarify, but either way - the GAB switched horses mid-stream (mixing my metaphors?) and back-tracked on their previously outlined rules for exit polling. Perhaps the GAB makes a distinction between citizen exit pollsters and press exit pollsters and therefore were caught offguard by the effort (in spite of the letter of approval) but even so - the idea that exit polls have to be verbal and can not be recorded on paper without "confusing" the voter, or engaging in "electioneering" is patently absurd on it's face. I participated in citizen exit polling in Sarasota FL in 2008. And you guys, EVEN IN FLORIDA we were allowed to conduct these polls RIGHT OUTSIDE the polling place (10ft rule), as long as we were not seen as "interfering" with the voting process. We were allowed to hand out written materials for the voter to fill out with the names of the candidates on the ballots. While it was a bit tenuous at the beginning of the day, we had fewer problems in FLORIDA than they did in WI... ...that in and of itself is telling. Exit polling is officially a dead art.

Like Petroglyphs...and listening.

COMMENT #37 [Permalink]

... Jeannie Dean said on 7/24/2011 @ 1:34 pm PT...





Also worth noting, as Brad has covered in past article but I can't find the link right now - the GAB previously singled out EDA in a letter from their legal department advising WI clerks that they don't have to respond to "information requests" from out-of-state groups... This, in addition to having Sally and Jonathan fill out (and pay for) FOIA requests WARD by WARD (a first, as I understand it) and then denying them the certain requested documents that are supposed to be public record - no matter WHO is asking for them or WHERE they happen to be geographically located. So, the GAB has a pattern now of giving EDA (and the WI citizen volunteers working under their guidance) the run-around re: the time-tested methodology historically used for election observation and monitoring. ...hardly transparent. Hardly WISCONSIN.

COMMENT #38 [Permalink]

... Richard Lake said on 7/26/2011 @ 2:21 pm PT...

