Buckyman Profile Joined May 2014 1362 Posts #7241 Juggernaut's mango also builds into wand.

Torte de Lini Profile Joined September 2010 Germany 7680 Posts #7242 doesn't provide stats to help last-hitting. https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)

Torte de Lini Profile Joined September 2010 Germany 7680 Posts #7243 all item/ability and talent tooltips have been updated.



That's the end of 2017 - thanks for everything. https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)

Torte de Lini Profile Joined September 2010 Germany 7680 Posts Last Edited: 2017-12-28 23:37:29 #7244 ed https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)

Torte de Lini Profile Joined September 2010 Germany 7680 Posts #7245 end-of-year review coming in January https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)

Torte de Lini Profile Joined September 2010 Germany 7680 Posts Last Edited: 2018-01-03 10:33:12 #7246 ed https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)

Torte de Lini Profile Joined September 2010 Germany 7680 Posts #7247 stats tomorrow https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)

Torte de Lini Profile Joined September 2010 Germany 7680 Posts Last Edited: 2018-01-02 14:55:02 #7248 After 15 days (December 17 to January 1), we have risen from 286,862,062 to 290,638,574 combined subscriptions



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Portions of their pledges will go to long-time community members, dedicated to providing feedback to keep this collection of hero builds accurate to current standards of play.





This latest update and hero builds changes was made possible thanks to the involvement of the following community members. Sincere thank you to: B. Jacobson, mort2hawt, icheyne, Korooo, itsToTheMax, szymond70 , this project continues to be made possible by the contributions of:Portions of their pledges will go to long-time community members, dedicated to providing feedback to keep this collection of hero builds accurate to current standards of play.This latest update and hero builds changes was made possible thanks to the involvement of the following community members. Sincere thank you to: https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)

Torte de Lini Profile Joined September 2010 Germany 7680 Posts #7249 Clockwerk

Added Soul Ring to Situational Items



Chaos Knight

New Skill Build: Q W W E W R W E E T E R Q Q T Q R T T (1. Reality Rift 2. Chaos Strike 3. Chaos Bolt)

New Talent Tree: 10 (+5 All Stats), 15 (+15 Strength), 20 (Reality Rift Pierces Spell Immune), 25 (-7 Reality Rift Armor Reduction)

Added Linken's Sphere to Situational Items

Moved Manta Style to Situational Items

Moved Black King Bar to Extension Items

Removed Drum of Endurance



Silencer (Core)

New Skill Build: E W E W E R E Q Q T Q R Q W T W R T T (1. Last Word 2. Arcane Curse 3. Glaives of Wisdom)

New Talent Tree: 10 (+5 Armor), 15 (+2 Intelligence Steal), 20 (+125 Attack Range), 25 (+20% Glaives of Wisdom)

Added Aghanim's Scepter to Core Items

Added Bloodthorn to Extension Items

Moved Silver Edge to Situational Items

Removed Blink Dagger

Removed Shadow Blade



Tidehunter

New Skill Build: E W E W E R E W W Q T R Q Q T Q R T T (1. Anchor Smash 2. Kraken Shell 3. Gush)



Renamed Support

Dark Willow (Offlane)

Removed Animal Courier



Dark Willow (Core)

New Skill Build: W Q W Q W R W Q Q T E R E E T E R T T (1. Shadow Realm 2. Bramble Maze 3. Terrorize)

Added Bottle to Early Game

Moved Boots of Travel to Core Items

Moved Kaya to Extension Items

Removed Arcane Boots Added Soul Ring to Situational ItemsNew Skill Build: Q W W E W R W E E T E R Q Q T Q R T T (1. Reality Rift 2. Chaos Strike 3. Chaos Bolt)New Talent Tree: 10 (+5 All Stats), 15 (+15 Strength), 20 (Reality Rift Pierces Spell Immune), 25 (-7 Reality Rift Armor Reduction)Added Linken's Sphere to Situational ItemsMoved Manta Style to Situational ItemsMoved Black King Bar to Extension ItemsRemoved Drum of EnduranceNew Skill Build: E W E W E R E Q Q T Q R Q W T W R T T (1. Last Word 2. Arcane Curse 3. Glaives of Wisdom)New Talent Tree: 10 (+5 Armor), 15 (+2 Intelligence Steal), 20 (+125 Attack Range), 25 (+20% Glaives of Wisdom)Added Aghanim's Scepter to Core ItemsAdded Bloodthorn to Extension ItemsMoved Silver Edge to Situational ItemsRemoved Blink DaggerRemoved Shadow BladeNew Skill Build: E W E W E R E W W Q T R Q Q T Q R T T (1. Anchor Smash 2. Kraken Shell 3. Gush)Dark Willow (Offlane)Removed Animal CourierNew Skill Build: W Q W Q W R W Q Q T E R E E T E R T T (1. Shadow Realm 2. Bramble Maze 3. Terrorize)Added Bottle to Early GameMoved Boots of Travel to Core ItemsMoved Kaya to Extension ItemsRemoved Arcane Boots https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)

Sn0_Man Profile Joined October 2012 Tebellong 31461 Posts #7250 Is that really the optimal tide skill build?



AFAIK it's very lane dependant but pros like a point in gush before the 3rd in shell. It's surprisingly awkward to have ravage as your only slow/stun/etc as a low-ms melee hero who's primary damage ability is in a small AoE around him until at least level 10. Like even if you ravage an enemy hero it's hard to kill them without gush as well in most situations.



Gush is just a really solid level 1 skill, 110 dmg, -armour, 40% slow and reasonably low CD/mana cost, it just doesn't really help you offlane that well. It's pretty hard to justify skipping it entirely unless you are playing an insanely greedy/non-contributing jungle-offlaner.



If your lane is so bad that you have to be prioritizing shell, you have to commit to shell over extra levels of anchor smash I think since anchor smash doesn't really imrpove it's damage mitigation at the same rate that shell does (shell does allow you to utterly ignore a ridiculous amount of right click damage early).



Basically tide is super situational to allocate early skill points but I really hesitate to recommend a build that totally skips gush until level 10/11 Moderator SCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302

Torte de Lini Profile Joined September 2010 Germany 7680 Posts #7251 On January 04 2018 02:09 Sn0_Man wrote:

Is that really the optimal tide skill build?



AFAIK it's very lane dependant but pros like a point in gush before the 3rd in shell. It's surprisingly awkward to have ravage as your only slow/stun/etc as a low-ms melee hero who's primary damage ability is in a small AoE around him until at least level 10. Like even if you ravage an enemy hero it's hard to kill them without gush as well in most situations.



Gush is just a really solid level 1 skill, 110 dmg, -armour, 40% slow and reasonably low CD/mana cost, it just doesn't really help you offlane that well. It's pretty hard to justify skipping it entirely unless you are playing an insanely greedy/non-contributing jungle-offlaner.



If your lane is so bad that you have to be prioritizing shell, you have to commit to shell over extra levels of anchor smash I think since anchor smash doesn't really imrpove it's damage mitigation at the same rate that shell does (shell does allow you to utterly ignore a ridiculous amount of right click damage early).



Basically tide is super situational to allocate early skill points but I really hesitate to recommend a build that totally skips gush until level 10/11





The previous build was at 11 after the Gush talent, so it was very strange.

We're seeing Gush gotten at 8-9-10, sometimes at 3 or 4 as well but it doesn't come up as much.



Ultimately the goal is to get to Ancients once you have sufficient Anchor Smash + Kraken Shell to farm out your big core item. The previous build was at 11 after the Gush talent, so it was very strange.We're seeing Gush gotten at 8-9-10, sometimes at 3 or 4 as well but it doesn't come up as much.Ultimately the goal is to get to Ancients once you have sufficient Anchor Smash + Kraken Shell to farm out your big core item. https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)

Sn0_Man Profile Joined October 2012 Tebellong 31461 Posts #7252 Well you certainly don't need level 4 shell for ancients (2 is dicey, but 3 is quite sufficient)



I do understand the theory of "survive the offlane with ultra tankiness, retreat to jungle to farm blink/mek asap with anchor smash" it's just that afk farming and only contributing ravage and nothing else to early fights just isn't a good gameplan. Ceding the lane in favour of hitting ancients for 5 minutes in order to produce a blink dagger or mek just isn't a good use of a hero or a good way to play. Stacking the ancients a bunch of times and wiping them out for a spike of gold to produce blink at some timing is great, but your hero needs to be doing things in between stacking those ancients and gush is the skill that makes you able to bully, threaten and contribute. Especially as a hero as hard to push out of a lane as tide is, it's very important to occupy space on the map forcing the enemy to commit heroes to defending their safelane. Moderator SCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302

Torte de Lini Profile Joined September 2010 Germany 7680 Posts #7253 On January 04 2018 02:25 Sn0_Man wrote:

Well you certainly don't need level 4 shell for ancients (2 is dicey, but 3 is quite sufficient)



I do understand the theory of "survive the offlane with ultra tankiness, retreat to jungle to farm blink/mek asap with anchor smash" it's just that afk farming and only contributing ravage and nothing else to early fights just isn't a good gameplan. Ceding the lane in favour of hitting ancients for 5 minutes in order to produce a blink dagger or mek just isn't a good use of a hero or a good way to play. Stacking the ancients a bunch of times and wiping them out for a spike of gold to produce blink at some timing is great, but your hero needs to be doing things in between stacking those ancients and gush is the skill that makes you able to bully, threaten and contribute. Especially as a hero as hard to push out of a lane as tide is, it's very important to occupy space on the map forcing the enemy to commit heroes to defending their safelane.



We can change the description of the talent to include "stacking and popping ancients"

At what level do you suggest Gush?



If I recall, biggest problem was he suffered from mana issues even with Arcane and farming ancients. We can change the description of the talent to include "stacking and popping ancients"At what level do you suggest Gush?If I recall, biggest problem was he suffered from mana issues even with Arcane and farming ancients. https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)

Sn0_Man Profile Joined October 2012 Tebellong 31461 Posts #7254 That's part of the problem with the "dissappear trying to farm a blink" tidehunter is that you actually need a soul ring to jungle with tide (spamming anchor smash on cooldown). Mana boots give you enough to exist on the map usually though and are a big help to your team. In lane, you are much more judicious with your spells because you can usually get creeps at a decent rate with more reasonable spell useage.



it's still incredibly lane dependant when you take points in skills, but something like e/w/w/e/q/r gives you way more potential and about as much tankiness at the cost of some jungle-farming speed loss. I don't think you generally want to clear the ancients too early anyway since tide isn't very fast at doing them so you need a decent sized stack for it to be worth his time. Plus you invest a LOT of mana in it, so you can't just do it willy-nilly. Moderator SCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302

Doomblaze Profile Joined October 2010 United States 389 Posts Last Edited: 2018-01-05 11:51:44 #7255 You get gush whenever you feel you can use it. If you have an advantage in lane and feel that a gush can help you get a kill on a support or force their carry out of lane, its a good investment, but if you're sitting at your tower and hoping to catch up in levels by killing neutrals it doesnt make much sense.



I would definitely get a point before level 10, 8 at the latest, theres no need to max out both kraken shell and anchor smash since they have similar functions in lane, and outside of lane all that matters is that kraken shell will remove debuffs before you ravage In Mushi we trust

PRAISEOURLORDMRLIZAR Profile Joined January 2018 2 Posts #7256 I have a few suggestions for the AM guide

1) Remove aghs from the core items section. Right now aghs serves as a worse linkens for am since he gets less stats from it and AM doesn't care too much about the price.

2 Put abyssal blade in as standard 3rd item since in lower level games all people want to do is fight and kill and abyssal is the item to buy for that purpose

3) Add Skadi as a situational item its a good alternative to abyssal when you need health more than hard lockdown.

4) Add eblade as a situational item good for linkens poping and nuking people with mana void.

Torte de Lini Profile Joined September 2010 Germany 7680 Posts #7257 On January 05 2018 22:39 PRAISEOURLORDMRLIZAR wrote:

I have a few suggestions for the AM guide

1) Remove aghs from the core items section. Right now aghs serves as a worse linkens for am since he gets less stats from it and AM doesn't care too much about the price.

2 Put abyssal blade in as standard 3rd item since in lower level games all people want to do is fight and kill and abyssal is the item to buy for that purpose

3) Add Skadi as a situational item its a good alternative to abyssal when you need health more than hard lockdown.

4) Add eblade as a situational item good for linkens poping and nuking people with mana void.



1. Aghs is more popular than Linken's in purchases across the board

2. We follow the standard build for AM, not lower-level games in which Abyssal Blade is an extension item depending on the game (though I agree lockdown is often the next item purchased)

3. Situational items are for non-end-game purchases. Skadi is a late-game purchase and must replace an extension item (6 items max per tab)

4. Nullifer/Abyssal is pretty good to help pop Linken's. Never see e-blade purchased. Very expensive. 1. Aghs is more popular than Linken's in purchases across the board2. We follow the standard build for AM, not lower-level games in which Abyssal Blade is an extension item depending on the game (though I agree lockdown is often the next item purchased)3. Situational items are for non-end-game purchases. Skadi is a late-game purchase and must replace an extension item (6 items max per tab)4. Nullifer/Abyssal is pretty good to help pop Linken's. Never see e-blade purchased. Very expensive. https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)

PRAISEOURLORDMRLIZAR Profile Joined January 2018 2 Posts #7258 1. Aghs is more popular than Linken's in purchases across the board

This is true though I guess I just never had quite as much success with aghs as I have linkens

This is true though I guess I just never had quite as much success with aghs as I have linkens 3. Situational items are for non-end-game purchases. Skadi is a late-game purchase and must replace an extension item (6 items max per tab)

Thanks for explaining the difference between situational and extension I wasn't really sure what they were until now but I still feel Skadi should go in one of the two.

Thanks for explaining the difference between situational and extension I wasn't really sure what they were until now but I still feel Skadi should go in one of the two. 4. Nullifer/Abyssal is pretty good to help pop Linken's. Never see e-blade purchased. Very expensive.

I've never really tried nullifier on AM though it seems like basically the same thing as an eblade just with a purge and mute instead of a nuke and spell amp. I've never really tried nullifier on AM though it seems like basically the same thing as an eblade just with a purge and mute instead of a nuke and spell amp.

Torte de Lini Profile Joined September 2010 Germany 7680 Posts #7259 On January 06 2018 01:00 PRAISEOURLORDMRLIZAR wrote:

Show nested quote +

4. Nullifer/Abyssal is pretty good to help pop Linken's. Never see e-blade purchased. Very expensive.

I've never really tried nullifier on AM though it seems like basically the same thing as an eblade just with a purge and mute instead of a nuke and spell amp. I've never really tried nullifier on AM though it seems like basically the same thing as an eblade just with a purge and mute instead of a nuke and spell amp.



And the fact that you can auto-attack. And the fact that you can auto-attack. https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)

RuiBarbO Profile Joined August 2012 United States 424 Posts #7260 Is your name supposed to be pussyfucker69 or is someone trolling you Can someone please explain/how water falls with no rain?

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