Federal Communications Commission Chairman Ajit Pai today pledged to US senators that he will operate independently of the White House.

Sen. Tom Udall (D-N.M.) raised questions about the chairman's independence two days after Pai met with President Donald Trump and declined to disclose the topics of discussion. Trump appointed Pai chairman in January and yesterday nominated Pai for another five-year term on the FCC.

"Will the FCC operate independently of the White House?" Udall asked Pai during an FCC oversight hearing held by the Commerce Committee.

"Absolutely, sir," Pai responded.

Udall focused on Trump's criticisms of the news media and asked Pai if he and Trump discussed any issues related to the media or talked about any specific company that interacts with the FCC. "Senator, I can’t comment on the conversations I’ve had with the president," Pai answered. "I would leave that to the White House to disclose."

Pai met with the president at the White House on Monday. When asked what topics were discussed, a White House spokesperson told Ars only that "President Trump met with FCC Commissioner Pai to discuss how to best solve the issues and concerns facing Americans every day."

“I wish your answer had been different”

Udall asked Pai if he agrees with Trump's statement that the media "is the enemy of the American people." Pai declined to provide a yes or no answer, saying, "I don’t want to wade into the larger political debate," while adding, "I believe that every American enjoys the First Amendment protections guaranteed by the Constitution."

Sen. Maggie Hassan (D-N.H.) later asked Pai the same question about whether the media is the enemy of the American people and received the same answer. Hassan was disappointed, saying, "I wish your answer had been a little different." Democratic senators pointed to Pai's official FCC biography that describes him as "an outspoken defender of First Amendment freedoms."

Udall also asked Pai whether he will resist any attempt by the White House to use the FCC to intimidate news organizations. "I have said consistently… that we are an independent agency and for any matter that is placed before me, I will take a sober look at the facts that are based on the papers submitted by interested parties," Pai answered. "I will render a decision based on the law and the precedents that apply to those facts, and I will make a determination based on what I and my colleagues think is in the public interest."

Pai also said he hasn't discussed the AT&T/Time Warner merger with Trump or anyone else in the White House. Udall pointed out that Trump's son-in-law and adviser Jared Kushner recently met with a Time Warner executive and complained about Time Warner property CNN's news coverage. This occurred while AT&T is trying to buy Time Warner, a merger criticized by Trump.

Pai reiterated his stance that the FCC will not review the AT&T/Time Warner merger because the two companies have structured the deal to avoid transfer of any FCC licenses. "Insofar as that remains the case, my belief is the FCC would not have the legal authority to review the transaction," Pai said.

Pai accused Tom Wheeler of doing Obama’s bidding

The FCC is an independent agency, though its members are nominated by the president and confirmed by the Senate. The president decides which commissioner serves as chair.

While Democrat Tom Wheeler was FCC Chairman, Pai and Republicans in Congress repeatedly claimed that Wheeler did the White House's bidding by reclassifying ISPs as common carriers and imposing net neutrality rules. Pai's dissenting statement to the 2015 net neutrality ruling said the FCC acted because "President Obama told us to do so," and he referred to a Wall Street Journal report that said the net neutrality rules were influenced by "an unusual, secretive effort inside the White House."

Trump and Pai both oppose net neutrality rules, and Pai has talked about overturning them.

Pai and his spokespeople have repeatedly declined to say what he discussed with President Trump on Monday. A statement issued to media the day of the meeting said, "No proceedings pending at the FCC were discussed."

Ars got a similar answer when we asked the FCC press office whether Pai and Trump discussed any matters that might come before the FCC in the future, including a repeal of net neutrality rules. Because no current proceedings were discussed, the White House does not have to make an ex parte filing that would detail the meeting, the FCC told us.

The 2015 net neutrality rulemaking is still a "docketed proceeding" subject to ex parte rules, the FCC said. But a repeal of net neutrality would require a new rulemaking proceeding, Sen. Richard Blumenthal (D-Conn.) said at today's hearing.

Democratic FCC Commissioner Mignon Clyburn's spokesperson declined to comment on whether Pai should reveal details of his meeting with Trump.

Obama, Wheeler, and net neutrality

Obama publicly urged the FCC to reclassify ISPs and impose net neutrality rules a few months before the FCC's final decision in February 2015. Congressional Republicans accused the White House of improperly influencing the decision, but Wheeler told lawmakers at the time that "there were no secret instructions from the White House."

We contacted Wheeler this week, and the former chairman offered some thoughts on the FCC's dealings with the White House.

"You’ll remember Pai was constantly complaining that I took orders from Obama," Wheeler told Ars in an e-mail. "The reality was that I had a pro forma meeting with the president my first week in office. No proceedings were discussed. I just said, 'thank you,' and he said, 'I will never call you, you are an independent agency.'"

Besides one photo-op at an E-Rate event, Wheeler said, "I never saw [Obama] again until the last 10 days or so when I asked to see him to say 'thank you for the privilege.'"

Wheeler noted that the FCC is correct in saying the White House doesn't have to file an ex parte when no ongoing proceedings are discussed. "There are few ongoing proceedings, however, and even if there were many, by their nature they are very specific," Wheeler said. "Thus, it would be possible to make that claim even if the president who said the media is the 'enemy of the people' was telling the chairman of the media-regulating agency (both broadcast and Internet) what to do."

Gigi Sohn, one of Wheeler's top counselors while he was chairman, told Ars that "since Chairman Pai was so outwardly critical of Chairman Wheeler’s relationship with the White House and because he has prided himself on being transparent, I think he should publicly reveal the specifics of his conversation with President Trump." (Pai complained that Wheeler's FCC was too secretive and last month changed FCC policy in order to make the full text of rulemakings public before voting on them.)

It's not unusual or untoward for the FCC chair to keep the White House up to date on FCC proceedings, Sohn said. "Where things cross the line is when the White House starts dictating what the FCC should do (which did not happen in net neutrality, regardless of what the WSJ and Pai said)," Sohn told Ars. "Nixon was most famously guilty of telling his FCC what to do (i.e., punish stations for violating the Fairness Doctrine)."

Sen. Dan Sullivan (R-Alaska) is still angry about Wheeler's chairmanship and today urged Pai to operate more independently than Wheeler did. Republicans saw Wheeler's FCC as "more of a lieutenant of the White House than an independent agency," Sullivan said. "So when my colleagues on the other side of the aisle talk about your independence from the Trump administration, we want you to be independent but don’t use the last chairman as a model because a lot of us don't think he was very independent at all."