SALT LAKE CITY — Utah Sen. Mitt Romney believes other GOP senators who may not agree with President Donald Trump often remain mum to keep their jobs, and to keep a Republican president in office.

The second of those reasons, he said, is more “elevated” than the first.

“People genuinely believe, as I do, that conservative principles are better for our country and for the working people of our country than liberal principles. And that if Elizabeth Warren were to become president, for instance, or if we were to lose the Senate, that would not be good for the American people,” Romney told HBO Axios co-founder Mike Allen.

The interview took place in Romney’s Holladay home and spanned topics ranging from hiking Utah’s Mt. Olympus to foreign relations, to the chance of Romney facing up against Trump during the upcoming election.

When asked why many other Republican senators will only criticize Trump off the record, Romney said: “They don’t want to do something which makes it more likely for Elizabeth Warren to become president, or for us to lose the Senate.

“So they don’t want to go out and criticize the leader of our party, because they feel that may have the consequence of hurting our country longer term,” he said on the show that aired Sunday afternoon.

Although Romney said he votes with the president about 80% of the time, “I think that in some of the things that he has said and done, that he has detracted from the mission of a leader in shaping the character of the country in a positive way.”

Romney hasn’t shied away from voicing his disapproval of some of the president’s decisions, including his recent withdrawal of troops from northern Syria. He echoed those concerns during the HBO interview.

Other allies will think that they can’t count on America after the withdrawal, Romney said. And though the senator is on the Foreign Relations Committee, he said he didn’t get a head’s up on the decision beforehand, instead learning about it on Twitter “like most folks.”

On the Senate floor Thursday, Romney said serious questions remain about the decision to withdraw and that the administration needs to explain America’s future role in the region.

“The announcement today is being portrayed as a victory,” Romney said in that speech. “It is far from a victory.”

Romney has faced criticism in return from Trump.

On Friday, the president tweeted “REPUBLICANS MUST STICK TOGETHER AND FIGHT!” along with a video targeting Romney, the Associated Press reported. Also, a conservative political advocacy group — Club for Growth — is paying for television ads that describe Romney as a “Democrat secret asset” after his recent comments about Trump.

When asked how he feels hearing Trump say he “choked like a dog” in 2012, and other insults, Romney said he doesn’t take it too hard.

“Oh, look, if I worried about criticism, I’d be in the wrong job, in the wrong industry,” he said. ”Look, I’ve been tough on the president, so he’s gonna whack me back.”

When asked about his comments concerning Trump’s “brazen and unprecedented appeal to China and Ukraine” to investigate Joe Biden, Romney stood by them.

“I don’t think there’s any question but that going on TV on the White House lawn and saying, ‘China, will you investigate my political opponent?’ is wrong. It’s a mistake. It was shocking, in my opinion, for the president to do so.”

The conversation then turned to the topic of honor when Allen asked Romney if he believes President Barack Obama and Vice President Joe Biden are honorable men.

Of Obama, Romney said, “I believe he’s an honorable man, yes, yeah. A good family man. And he made a lot of mistakes, most presidents do.”

He said he doesn’t know Biden well, but that “he seems to be a man of honor.”

When asked the same question of Trump, Romney said: “He has elements, I’m sure, of honor in his life, and there’s things I think are not honorable. And I mention that because of the payment to a porn star for sexual relations outside of marriage. I’m one of those who believes we have a responsibility to be honorable and faithful to our wives, and the president made a failing in that regard.”

But while some have suggested Romney throw his hat into the ring during next year’s presidential election, Romney said Sunday there’s no chance of that.

“Well, I’m not going to run against President Trump. That would be a fool’s errand, I’m afraid, on my part. I’ve run twice before and lost, so I’m not going to do it again. There may be other people who will make that effort, and they can do so if they’d like to. I’m certainly going to indicate to them it’ll be an uphill climb.”