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Aveng3r Profile Joined February 2012 United States 2408 Posts #2 In tvt, is a gasless 1 rax FE safe against a 1 rax reaper opening? what about a reaper opening from more than 1 barracks? I carve marble busts of assassinated world leaders - PM for a quote

Dutra Profile Joined October 2011 Brazil 5 Posts #3 With all these new units, how its the metagame going on? whats the core units that proplayers r using in the 3 matchups? Just a short resume to get a north, plz =)

kollin Profile Blog Joined March 2011 United Kingdom 7179 Posts Last Edited: 2013-03-13 17:56:06 #4 On March 14 2013 02:49 Aveng3r wrote:

In tvt, is a gasless 1 rax FE safe against a 1 rax reaper opening? what about a reaper opening from more than 1 barracks?



In general, it is best not to 1 rax FE in TvT any more. You can't hold any sort of two rax reaper aggression, and even one rax reaper builds can be a pain to deal with. In general, the safe build for TvT at the moment is 1 rax reaper, then you go into defensive widow mines, then marine tank/mech. If you want to you can try and deal eco damage with widow mine drops instead of using them purely for defence, however that does of course open you up to counter-aggression from your opponent.



In general, it is best not to 1 rax FE in TvT any more. You can't hold any sort of two rax reaper aggression, and even one rax reaper builds can be a pain to deal with. In general, the safe build for TvT at the moment is 1 rax reaper, then you go into defensive widow mines, then marine tank/mech. If you want to you can try and deal eco damage with widow mine drops instead of using them purely for defence, however that does of course open you up to counter-aggression from your opponent. On March 14 2013 02:51 Dutra wrote:

With all these new units, how its the metagame going on? whats the core units that proplayers r using in the 3 matchups? Just a short resume to get a north, plz =)

The standard opener for TvT I outlined above. For TvP, it is either 1 rax FE or once again a reaper opening, and for TvZ it can be reapers, or hellion banshee (though that is risky because your opponent might go for muta play). In terms of core units, it is mostly the same. In all matchups, it is not a bad idea to mix in widow mines for defence. Obviously you want hellbats if you are going mech and your opponent is going for a lot of direct attacks, but if you are going pure bio in TvZ and TvP they are also very good to mix in. Don't rely on them as a core unit though, they should be there to supplement the main bio force and provide a bit of additional AoE damage. The standard opener for TvT I outlined above. For TvP, it is either 1 rax FE or once again a reaper opening, and for TvZ it can be reapers, or hellion banshee (though that is risky because your opponent might go for muta play). In terms of core units, it is mostly the same. In all matchups, it is not a bad idea to mix in widow mines for defence. Obviously you want hellbats if you are going mech and your opponent is going for a lot of direct attacks, but if you are going pure bio in TvZ and TvP they are also very good to mix in. Don't rely on them as a core unit though, they should be there to supplement the main bio force and provide a bit of additional AoE damage.

Dutra Profile Joined October 2011 Brazil 5 Posts Last Edited: 2013-03-13 18:01:48 #5 On March 14 2013 02:51 Dutra wrote:

With all these new units, how its the metagame going on? whats the core units that proplayers r using in the 3 matchups? Just a short resume to get a north, plz =)

The standard opener for TvT I outlined above. For TvP, it is either 1 rax FE or once again a reaper opening, and for TvZ it can be reapers, or hellion banshee (though that is risky because your opponent might go for muta play). In terms of core units, it is mostly the same. In all matchups, it is not a bad idea to mix in widow mines for defence. Obviously you want hellbats if you are going mech and your opponent is going for a lot of direct attacks, but if you are going pure bio in TvZ and TvP they are also very good to mix in. Don't rely on them as a core unit though, they should be there to supplement the main bio force and provide a bit of additional AoE damage.



Tks man =) 1 more thing: the armor of flying vehicles is the same of the ground now? Tks man =) 1 more thing: the armor of flying vehicles is the same of the ground now?

Smackzilla Profile Blog Joined April 2010 United States 522 Posts #6 When people say "1-rax reaper" in hots, is that:



1) rax marine, reactor, 2x reaper?

2) rax reaper, ?, ?

3) rax, reactor, 2x reaper....

You see a mousetrap. I see free cheese and a f&%*ing challenge - Scroobius Pip

purenovice Profile Joined March 2013 Russian Federation 2 Posts #7 Hello, i search macro build`s for any matchup`s/

Do I understand correctly in previous posts:



tvt - reaper - factory - mines - expand (so only that build is safe, if i will play standart wol 1 rax fe in to 2 rax/shield/+1, i will lose every game vs reaper push, mines drop. hellbat drop) <- it`s correct ?



tvz - im try play wol build - 1 rax/fe/factory/hellions/banshee/3rd cc/+1 armor and weap/add +2 rax/ siege take 3rd and min game composition is mmm+tanks. So it`s works the same as before. But i saw, a few things. What i don`t need banshee because i have mines vs roach. And i think what build like standart hellion fe, in hots are very good, but i think need to change banshe for mines, take much earlier +1/+1 or accumulate critical weight mm + hellions and +1/+1 opening or take hellbat upgrade. What you can say about that ?



tvp - in this case i try make 1/1/1 drop mines and harass with marines, but i felling are not comfortable, maybe i need try in much more. In mid game i use same mmm.



So if you can, give me ideas how to play terran in hots. :D

kollin Profile Blog Joined March 2011 United Kingdom 7179 Posts #8 On March 14 2013 03:33 Smackzilla wrote:

When people say "1-rax reaper" in hots, is that:



1) rax marine, reactor, 2x reaper?

2) rax reaper, ?, ?

3) rax, reactor, 2x reaper....



They mean 12 rax, 13 gas, then reaper straight away. If you want to be slightly more aggressive you can go 11 rax 12 gas, with a brief SCV cut. They mean 12 rax, 13 gas, then reaper straight away. If you want to be slightly more aggressive you can go 11 rax 12 gas, with a brief SCV cut.

mau5mat Profile Blog Joined September 2012 Northern Ireland 461 Posts #9 Have a question, I was wondering on how beneficial it is to cheese in the opening weeks of HotS on ladder, until standard play becomes more developed. It seems strange trying to learn how to play standard, when there is no 'standard' developed yet?

kollin Profile Blog Joined March 2011 United Kingdom 7179 Posts #10 On March 14 2013 04:36 mau5mat wrote:

Have a question, I was wondering on how beneficial it is to cheese in the opening weeks of HotS on ladder, until standard play becomes more developed. It seems strange trying to learn how to play standard, when there is no 'standard' developed yet?

There is a standard actually. If we look at the recent IEM, in all the matchups you could see 'standards' emerging. I suggest if you want to get up to date you try and check out some Vods, as there is some very interesting play emerging from each and every one of the Korean Terrans. There is a standard actually. If we look at the recent IEM, in all the matchups you could see 'standards' emerging. I suggest if you want to get up to date you try and check out some Vods, as there is some very interesting play emerging from each and every one of the Korean Terrans.

tisalgado Profile Joined February 2013 Brazil 51 Posts Last Edited: 2013-03-13 19:50:10 #11 as a new terran player (used to play zerg), I never followed build orders... I've come up with some that work for me, but even them aren't set in stone... I don't know if it only works because I'm bad (platinum), but I'm used to play kind of reactively (as a zerg heritage)... but I feel that whenever I keep enough scout paths avaliable (scv > reaper > banshee/viking > scan) and keep my resources low, I'm safe... so even though I'm not playing "standard", it's standard enough for me not to fall behind in economy and not to be too greedy...



As I said, I don't follow builds, but I usually have up to 2 production facilities per base... (1 or 2 raxes on 1 base, 3 rax and 1 fac on 2 bases and 5-1-1 on 3)...



it varies according to how safe I feel, but that's usually how I roll...



edit: I usually play really aggressively, and don't add medivacs in early... only after a few engagements, usually (for I favor faster ups and a rather quick third base (I get to 2-2 on 2 gases))



I started it as a response to mau5mat, but I'll morph it into a question... how bad is my thought process? Luck = Preparation + Oportunity

kollin Profile Blog Joined March 2011 United Kingdom 7179 Posts Last Edited: 2013-03-13 19:51:34 #12 On March 14 2013 04:46 tisalgado wrote:

as a new terran player (used to play zerg), I never followed build orders... I've come up with some that work for me, but even them aren't set in stone... I don't know if it only works because I'm bad (platinum), but I'm used to play kind of reactively (as a zerg heritage)... but I feel that whenever I keep enough scout paths avaliable (scv > reaper > banshee/viking > scan) and keep my resources low, I'm safe... so even though I'm not playing "standard", it's standard enough for me not to fall behind in economy and not to be too greedy...



As I said, I don't follow builds, but I usually have up to 2 production facilities per base... (1 or 2 raxes on 1 base, 3 rax and 1 fac on 2 bases and 5-1-1 on 3)...



it varies according to how safe I feel, but that's usually how I roll...



I started it as a response to mau5mat, but I'll morph it into a question... how bad is my thought process?

Without commenting on your thought process, you are far too conservative with production facilities per base. As a general rule of thumb, three per base (all with addons) is generally good. On three base you can easily support 7 barracks, 2 factories, 1 starport as well as double ebay.



About your thought process, it won't work at all past a certain level. If you open reapers, and then go into starport what's to stop me running up your ramp with 10 roaches and just winning the game. Watch a few pro games, such as the GSTL Pre Season games, or IEM WC, or the MLG Winter Championship coming up and note down build orders from that. If you can actually stay at plat level with what you're doing, you could probably hit masters pretty easily with a solid, well executed build order.



EDIT: You want medivacs earlier than 'after a few engagements'. You should be able to pressure your opponent with 100 supply, two medivacs, +1 finished, a third base and two more barracks building at the 10:00 mark. Without commenting on your thought process, you aretoo conservative with production facilities per base. As a general rule of thumb, three per base (all with addons) is generally good. On three base you can easily support 7 barracks, 2 factories, 1 starport as well as double ebay.About your thought process, it won't work at all past a certain level. If you open reapers, and then go into starport what's to stop me running up your ramp with 10 roaches and just winning the game. Watch a few pro games, such as the GSTL Pre Season games, or IEM WC, or the MLG Winter Championship coming up and note down build orders from that. If you can actually stay at plat level with what you're doing, you could probably hit masters pretty easily with a solid, well executed build order.EDIT: You want medivacs earlier than 'after a few engagements'. You should be able to pressure your opponent with 100 supply, two medivacs, +1 finished, a third base and two more barracks building at the 10:00 mark.

Alvas Profile Joined August 2010 United States 309 Posts #13 what's the best bio response to hydra/roach/ling from a zerg? I was going MMM bioball with a few widow mines mixed in, but didn't do so well. I was leaning heavy marines, should I have gone for more marauders? Every bullet counts...

kollin Profile Blog Joined March 2011 United Kingdom 7179 Posts #14 On March 14 2013 05:13 Alvas wrote:

what's the best bio response to hydra/roach/ling from a zerg? I was going MMM bioball with a few widow mines mixed in, but didn't do so well. I was leaning heavy marines, should I have gone for more marauders?

Adding hellbats is extremely effective against this composition. Really you want tanks as well, because AoE just crushes any form of roach hydra from Zerg providing you can micro and position yourself correctly. Adding hellbats is extremely effective against this composition. Really you want tanks as well, because AoE just crushes any form of roach hydra from Zerg providing you can micro and position yourself correctly.

tisalgado Profile Joined February 2013 Brazil 51 Posts #15 On March 14 2013 04:50 kollin wrote:

Show nested quote +

On March 14 2013 04:46 tisalgado wrote:

as a new terran player (used to play zerg), I never followed build orders... I've come up with some that work for me, but even them aren't set in stone... I don't know if it only works because I'm bad (platinum), but I'm used to play kind of reactively (as a zerg heritage)... but I feel that whenever I keep enough scout paths avaliable (scv > reaper > banshee/viking > scan) and keep my resources low, I'm safe... so even though I'm not playing "standard", it's standard enough for me not to fall behind in economy and not to be too greedy...



As I said, I don't follow builds, but I usually have up to 2 production facilities per base... (1 or 2 raxes on 1 base, 3 rax and 1 fac on 2 bases and 5-1-1 on 3)...



it varies according to how safe I feel, but that's usually how I roll...



I started it as a response to mau5mat, but I'll morph it into a question... how bad is my thought process?

Without commenting on your thought process, you are far too conservative with production facilities per base. As a general rule of thumb, three per base (all with addons) is generally good. On three base you can easily support 7 barracks, 2 factories, 1 starport as well as double ebay.



About your thought process, it won't work at all past a certain level. If you open reapers, and then go into starport what's to stop me running up your ramp with 10 roaches and just winning the game. Watch a few pro games, such as the GSTL Pre Season games, or IEM WC, or the MLG Winter Championship coming up and note down build orders from that. If you can actually stay at plat level with what you're doing, you could probably hit masters pretty easily with a solid, well executed build order.



EDIT: You want medivacs earlier than 'after a few engagements'. You should be able to pressure your opponent with 100 supply, two medivacs, +1 finished, a third base and two more barracks building at the 10:00 mark. Without commenting on your thought process, you aretoo conservative with production facilities per base. As a general rule of thumb, three per base (all with addons) is generally good. On three base you can easily support 7 barracks, 2 factories, 1 starport as well as double ebay.About your thought process, it won't work at all past a certain level. If you open reapers, and then go into starport what's to stop me running up your ramp with 10 roaches and just winning the game. Watch a few pro games, such as the GSTL Pre Season games, or IEM WC, or the MLG Winter Championship coming up and note down build orders from that. If you can actually stay at plat level with what you're doing, you could probably hit masters pretty easily with a solid, well executed build order.EDIT: You want medivacs earlier than 'after a few engagements'. You should be able to pressure your opponent with 100 supply, two medivacs, +1 finished, a third base and two more barracks building at the 10:00 mark.





thanks for your inputs, I'll try to work on my SCV production then, because I'm usually broke with those production facilities...

only think I'd note is that I usually don't go reapers for a opening... what I meant on the scout is that if I have a reaper, I'll use it to scout before scanning...



about your 10 roach push, depends on the timing... If you're one basing, I'd get 2 bunkers early (and I always wall my nat vs. zerg with depots)... if you're not one basing, the attack is rather later... I play aggressively, if you have nothing else to defend my 4-6 marines and 2 marauders the joke would actually be on you... if you defend with the said roaches, I'd start bunkers #2 and 3 while we cross the map (for speedless roaches don't outrun terran bio)... thanks for your inputs, I'll try to work on my SCV production then, because I'm usually broke with those production facilities...only think I'd note is that I usually don't go reapers for a opening... what I meant on the scout is that if I have a reaper, I'll use it to scout before scanning...about your 10 roach push, depends on the timing... If you're one basing, I'd get 2 bunkers early (and I always wall my nat vs. zerg with depots)... if you're not one basing, the attack is rather later... I play aggressively, if you have nothing else to defend my 4-6 marines and 2 marauders the joke would actually be on you... if you defend with the said roaches, I'd start bunkers #2 and 3 while we cross the map (for speedless roaches don't outrun terran bio)... Luck = Preparation + Oportunity

kollin Profile Blog Joined March 2011 United Kingdom 7179 Posts #16 On March 14 2013 05:15 tisalgado wrote:

Show nested quote +

On March 14 2013 04:50 kollin wrote:

On March 14 2013 04:46 tisalgado wrote:

as a new terran player (used to play zerg), I never followed build orders... I've come up with some that work for me, but even them aren't set in stone... I don't know if it only works because I'm bad (platinum), but I'm used to play kind of reactively (as a zerg heritage)... but I feel that whenever I keep enough scout paths avaliable (scv > reaper > banshee/viking > scan) and keep my resources low, I'm safe... so even though I'm not playing "standard", it's standard enough for me not to fall behind in economy and not to be too greedy...



As I said, I don't follow builds, but I usually have up to 2 production facilities per base... (1 or 2 raxes on 1 base, 3 rax and 1 fac on 2 bases and 5-1-1 on 3)...



it varies according to how safe I feel, but that's usually how I roll...



I started it as a response to mau5mat, but I'll morph it into a question... how bad is my thought process?

Without commenting on your thought process, you are far too conservative with production facilities per base. As a general rule of thumb, three per base (all with addons) is generally good. On three base you can easily support 7 barracks, 2 factories, 1 starport as well as double ebay.



About your thought process, it won't work at all past a certain level. If you open reapers, and then go into starport what's to stop me running up your ramp with 10 roaches and just winning the game. Watch a few pro games, such as the GSTL Pre Season games, or IEM WC, or the MLG Winter Championship coming up and note down build orders from that. If you can actually stay at plat level with what you're doing, you could probably hit masters pretty easily with a solid, well executed build order.



EDIT: You want medivacs earlier than 'after a few engagements'. You should be able to pressure your opponent with 100 supply, two medivacs, +1 finished, a third base and two more barracks building at the 10:00 mark. Without commenting on your thought process, you aretoo conservative with production facilities per base. As a general rule of thumb, three per base (all with addons) is generally good. On three base you can easily support 7 barracks, 2 factories, 1 starport as well as double ebay.About your thought process, it won't work at all past a certain level. If you open reapers, and then go into starport what's to stop me running up your ramp with 10 roaches and just winning the game. Watch a few pro games, such as the GSTL Pre Season games, or IEM WC, or the MLG Winter Championship coming up and note down build orders from that. If you can actually stay at plat level with what you're doing, you could probably hit masters pretty easily with a solid, well executed build order.EDIT: You want medivacs earlier than 'after a few engagements'. You should be able to pressure your opponent with 100 supply, two medivacs, +1 finished, a third base and two more barracks building at the 10:00 mark.





thanks for your inputs, I'll try to work on my SCV production then, because I'm usually broke with those production facilities...

only think I'd note is that I usually don't go reapers for a opening... what I meant on the scout is that if I have a reaper, I'll use it to scout before scanning...



about your 10 roach push, depends on the timing... If you're one basing, I'd get 2 bunkers early (and I always wall my nat vs. zerg with depots)... if you're not one basing, the attack is rather later... I play aggressively, if you have nothing else to defend my 4-6 marines and 2 marauders the joke would actually be on you... if you defend with the said roaches, I'd start bunkers #2 and 3 while we cross the map (for speedless roaches don't outrun terran bio)... thanks for your inputs, I'll try to work on my SCV production then, because I'm usually broke with those production facilities...only think I'd note is that I usually don't go reapers for a opening... what I meant on the scout is that if I have a reaper, I'll use it to scout before scanning...about your 10 roach push, depends on the timing... If you're one basing, I'd get 2 bunkers early (and I always wall my nat vs. zerg with depots)... if you're not one basing, the attack is rather later... I play aggressively, if you have nothing else to defend my 4-6 marines and 2 marauders the joke would actually be on you... if you defend with the said roaches, I'd start bunkers #2 and 3 while we cross the map (for speedless roaches don't outrun terran bio)...



You wouldn't have that much by the time my two base ten roach push hit you with those production facilities. Nevertheless, reapers are fine for scouting but going into a starport off the back of them in any non TvT matchup is extremely unsafe. You wouldn't have that much by the time my two base ten roach push hit you with those production facilities. Nevertheless, reapers are fine for scouting but going into a starport off the back of them in any non TvT matchup is extremely unsafe.

zhurai Profile Blog Joined September 2010 United States 5645 Posts #17 On March 14 2013 05:20 kollin wrote:

Show nested quote +

On March 14 2013 05:15 tisalgado wrote:

On March 14 2013 04:50 kollin wrote:

On March 14 2013 04:46 tisalgado wrote:

as a new terran player (used to play zerg), I never followed build orders... I've come up with some that work for me, but even them aren't set in stone... I don't know if it only works because I'm bad (platinum), but I'm used to play kind of reactively (as a zerg heritage)... but I feel that whenever I keep enough scout paths avaliable (scv > reaper > banshee/viking > scan) and keep my resources low, I'm safe... so even though I'm not playing "standard", it's standard enough for me not to fall behind in economy and not to be too greedy...



As I said, I don't follow builds, but I usually have up to 2 production facilities per base... (1 or 2 raxes on 1 base, 3 rax and 1 fac on 2 bases and 5-1-1 on 3)...



it varies according to how safe I feel, but that's usually how I roll...



I started it as a response to mau5mat, but I'll morph it into a question... how bad is my thought process?

Without commenting on your thought process, you are far too conservative with production facilities per base. As a general rule of thumb, three per base (all with addons) is generally good. On three base you can easily support 7 barracks, 2 factories, 1 starport as well as double ebay.



About your thought process, it won't work at all past a certain level. If you open reapers, and then go into starport what's to stop me running up your ramp with 10 roaches and just winning the game. Watch a few pro games, such as the GSTL Pre Season games, or IEM WC, or the MLG Winter Championship coming up and note down build orders from that. If you can actually stay at plat level with what you're doing, you could probably hit masters pretty easily with a solid, well executed build order.



EDIT: You want medivacs earlier than 'after a few engagements'. You should be able to pressure your opponent with 100 supply, two medivacs, +1 finished, a third base and two more barracks building at the 10:00 mark. Without commenting on your thought process, you aretoo conservative with production facilities per base. As a general rule of thumb, three per base (all with addons) is generally good. On three base you can easily support 7 barracks, 2 factories, 1 starport as well as double ebay.About your thought process, it won't work at all past a certain level. If you open reapers, and then go into starport what's to stop me running up your ramp with 10 roaches and just winning the game. Watch a few pro games, such as the GSTL Pre Season games, or IEM WC, or the MLG Winter Championship coming up and note down build orders from that. If you can actually stay at plat level with what you're doing, you could probably hit masters pretty easily with a solid, well executed build order.EDIT: You want medivacs earlier than 'after a few engagements'. You should be able to pressure your opponent with 100 supply, two medivacs, +1 finished, a third base and two more barracks building at the 10:00 mark.





thanks for your inputs, I'll try to work on my SCV production then, because I'm usually broke with those production facilities...

only think I'd note is that I usually don't go reapers for a opening... what I meant on the scout is that if I have a reaper, I'll use it to scout before scanning...



about your 10 roach push, depends on the timing... If you're one basing, I'd get 2 bunkers early (and I always wall my nat vs. zerg with depots)... if you're not one basing, the attack is rather later... I play aggressively, if you have nothing else to defend my 4-6 marines and 2 marauders the joke would actually be on you... if you defend with the said roaches, I'd start bunkers #2 and 3 while we cross the map (for speedless roaches don't outrun terran bio)... thanks for your inputs, I'll try to work on my SCV production then, because I'm usually broke with those production facilities...only think I'd note is that I usually don't go reapers for a opening... what I meant on the scout is that if I have a reaper, I'll use it to scout before scanning...about your 10 roach push, depends on the timing... If you're one basing, I'd get 2 bunkers early (and I always wall my nat vs. zerg with depots)... if you're not one basing, the attack is rather later... I play aggressively, if you have nothing else to defend my 4-6 marines and 2 marauders the joke would actually be on you... if you defend with the said roaches, I'd start bunkers #2 and 3 while we cross the map (for speedless roaches don't outrun terran bio)...



You wouldn't have that much by the time my two base ten roach push hit you with those production facilities. Nevertheless, reapers are fine for scouting but going into a starport off the back of them in any non TvT matchup is extremely unsafe. You wouldn't have that much by the time my two base ten roach push hit you with those production facilities. Nevertheless, reapers are fine for scouting but going into a starport off the back of them in any non TvT matchup is extremely unsafe.

hi, what build do you advise doing. cause what I had planned for myself is to do um (TvZ)

reaper expand into mines+starport, and then do a mine drop if able into either bio mines (double ebay, stim researching) or mech (double gas, double fact, 1-2 armories, get mines or thors vs muta...) or so?



and for TvP, reactor marine expo into mines (either play defensively if they look like they are going to attack, or drop with 2 mines and 4 marines)



basically the builds I saw yoda did in IEM.



or are those builds already out of date == hi, what build do you advise doing. cause what I had planned for myself is to do um (TvZ)reaper expand into mines+starport, and then do a mine drop if able into either bio mines (double ebay, stim researching) or mech (double gas, double fact, 1-2 armories, get mines or thors vs muta...) or so?and for TvP, reactor marine expo into mines (either play defensively if they look like they are going to attack, or drop with 2 mines and 4 marines)basically the builds I saw yoda did in IEM.or are those builds already out of date == Twitter: @zhurai | Site: http://zhurai.com

tisalgado Profile Joined February 2013 Brazil 51 Posts #18 On March 14 2013 05:20 kollin wrote:

Show nested quote +

On March 14 2013 05:15 tisalgado wrote:

On March 14 2013 04:50 kollin wrote:

On March 14 2013 04:46 tisalgado wrote:

as a new terran player (used to play zerg), I never followed build orders... I've come up with some that work for me, but even them aren't set in stone... I don't know if it only works because I'm bad (platinum), but I'm used to play kind of reactively (as a zerg heritage)... but I feel that whenever I keep enough scout paths avaliable (scv > reaper > banshee/viking > scan) and keep my resources low, I'm safe... so even though I'm not playing "standard", it's standard enough for me not to fall behind in economy and not to be too greedy...



As I said, I don't follow builds, but I usually have up to 2 production facilities per base... (1 or 2 raxes on 1 base, 3 rax and 1 fac on 2 bases and 5-1-1 on 3)...



it varies according to how safe I feel, but that's usually how I roll...



I started it as a response to mau5mat, but I'll morph it into a question... how bad is my thought process?

Without commenting on your thought process, you are far too conservative with production facilities per base. As a general rule of thumb, three per base (all with addons) is generally good. On three base you can easily support 7 barracks, 2 factories, 1 starport as well as double ebay.



About your thought process, it won't work at all past a certain level. If you open reapers, and then go into starport what's to stop me running up your ramp with 10 roaches and just winning the game. Watch a few pro games, such as the GSTL Pre Season games, or IEM WC, or the MLG Winter Championship coming up and note down build orders from that. If you can actually stay at plat level with what you're doing, you could probably hit masters pretty easily with a solid, well executed build order.



EDIT: You want medivacs earlier than 'after a few engagements'. You should be able to pressure your opponent with 100 supply, two medivacs, +1 finished, a third base and two more barracks building at the 10:00 mark. Without commenting on your thought process, you aretoo conservative with production facilities per base. As a general rule of thumb, three per base (all with addons) is generally good. On three base you can easily support 7 barracks, 2 factories, 1 starport as well as double ebay.About your thought process, it won't work at all past a certain level. If you open reapers, and then go into starport what's to stop me running up your ramp with 10 roaches and just winning the game. Watch a few pro games, such as the GSTL Pre Season games, or IEM WC, or the MLG Winter Championship coming up and note down build orders from that. If you can actually stay at plat level with what you're doing, you could probably hit masters pretty easily with a solid, well executed build order.EDIT: You want medivacs earlier than 'after a few engagements'. You should be able to pressure your opponent with 100 supply, two medivacs, +1 finished, a third base and two more barracks building at the 10:00 mark.





thanks for your inputs, I'll try to work on my SCV production then, because I'm usually broke with those production facilities...

only think I'd note is that I usually don't go reapers for a opening... what I meant on the scout is that if I have a reaper, I'll use it to scout before scanning...



about your 10 roach push, depends on the timing... If you're one basing, I'd get 2 bunkers early (and I always wall my nat vs. zerg with depots)... if you're not one basing, the attack is rather later... I play aggressively, if you have nothing else to defend my 4-6 marines and 2 marauders the joke would actually be on you... if you defend with the said roaches, I'd start bunkers #2 and 3 while we cross the map (for speedless roaches don't outrun terran bio)... thanks for your inputs, I'll try to work on my SCV production then, because I'm usually broke with those production facilities...only think I'd note is that I usually don't go reapers for a opening... what I meant on the scout is that if I have a reaper, I'll use it to scout before scanning...about your 10 roach push, depends on the timing... If you're one basing, I'd get 2 bunkers early (and I always wall my nat vs. zerg with depots)... if you're not one basing, the attack is rather later... I play aggressively, if you have nothing else to defend my 4-6 marines and 2 marauders the joke would actually be on you... if you defend with the said roaches, I'd start bunkers #2 and 3 while we cross the map (for speedless roaches don't outrun terran bio)...



You wouldn't have that much by the time my two base ten roach push hit you with those production facilities. Nevertheless, reapers are fine for scouting but going into a starport off the back of them in any non TvT matchup is extremely unsafe. You wouldn't have that much by the time my two base ten roach push hit you with those production facilities. Nevertheless, reapers are fine for scouting but going into a starport off the back of them in any non TvT matchup is extremely unsafe.





Well, I'm sorry if I'm making myself unclear (english isn't native to me), but I don't aim for reapers... and I don't follow reapers with SP... all I meant is that when I have those resources avaliable, I prefer to use them as scouts than scans...



and about your roach push...

on the worst case scenario:

if you're pushing so early that I don't yet have 6-8 units, my scv scout didn't see the roach warren and did not survive to see the move out (or was forced back into my base with lings), I must've been able to scout the gas mining... whenever zergs put gas early, be it for speed, defensive banes or all in, I throw down a bunker on the low ground (location varies on map, but I aim to be able to reach the top of the ramp and defend the command center)... if your push came under those assumptions, I'd try to repair the lowground bunker while building 2 more up the ramp to the main... rally forces inside and lift the nat... if even then I couldn't hold I'd gg out, but that is yet to happen down here at plat Well, I'm sorry if I'm making myself unclear (english isn't native to me), but I don't aim for reapers... and I don't follow reapers with SP... all I meant is that when I have those resources avaliable, I prefer to use them as scouts than scans...and about your roach push...on the worst case scenario:if you're pushing so early that I don't yet have 6-8 units, my scv scout didn't see the roach warren and did not survive to see the move out (or was forced back into my base with lings), I must've been able to scout the gas mining... whenever zergs put gas early, be it for speed, defensive banes or all in, I throw down a bunker on the low ground (location varies on map, but I aim to be able to reach the top of the ramp and defend the command center)... if your push came under those assumptions, I'd try to repair the lowground bunker while building 2 more up the ramp to the main... rally forces inside and lift the nat... if even then I couldn't hold I'd gg out, but that is yet to happen down here at plat Luck = Preparation + Oportunity

goFLiP Profile Joined November 2010 Argentina 39 Posts #19 What's the 2 rax reaper build? What's the idea, transition, etc. Kinda lost in TvT.

kollin Profile Blog Joined March 2011 United Kingdom 7179 Posts Last Edited: 2013-03-13 20:53:33 #20 On March 14 2013 05:27 zhurai wrote:

Show nested quote +

On March 14 2013 05:20 kollin wrote:

On March 14 2013 05:15 tisalgado wrote:

On March 14 2013 04:50 kollin wrote:

On March 14 2013 04:46 tisalgado wrote:

as a new terran player (used to play zerg), I never followed build orders... I've come up with some that work for me, but even them aren't set in stone... I don't know if it only works because I'm bad (platinum), but I'm used to play kind of reactively (as a zerg heritage)... but I feel that whenever I keep enough scout paths avaliable (scv > reaper > banshee/viking > scan) and keep my resources low, I'm safe... so even though I'm not playing "standard", it's standard enough for me not to fall behind in economy and not to be too greedy...



As I said, I don't follow builds, but I usually have up to 2 production facilities per base... (1 or 2 raxes on 1 base, 3 rax and 1 fac on 2 bases and 5-1-1 on 3)...



it varies according to how safe I feel, but that's usually how I roll...



I started it as a response to mau5mat, but I'll morph it into a question... how bad is my thought process?

Without commenting on your thought process, you are far too conservative with production facilities per base. As a general rule of thumb, three per base (all with addons) is generally good. On three base you can easily support 7 barracks, 2 factories, 1 starport as well as double ebay.



About your thought process, it won't work at all past a certain level. If you open reapers, and then go into starport what's to stop me running up your ramp with 10 roaches and just winning the game. Watch a few pro games, such as the GSTL Pre Season games, or IEM WC, or the MLG Winter Championship coming up and note down build orders from that. If you can actually stay at plat level with what you're doing, you could probably hit masters pretty easily with a solid, well executed build order.



EDIT: You want medivacs earlier than 'after a few engagements'. You should be able to pressure your opponent with 100 supply, two medivacs, +1 finished, a third base and two more barracks building at the 10:00 mark. Without commenting on your thought process, you aretoo conservative with production facilities per base. As a general rule of thumb, three per base (all with addons) is generally good. On three base you can easily support 7 barracks, 2 factories, 1 starport as well as double ebay.About your thought process, it won't work at all past a certain level. If you open reapers, and then go into starport what's to stop me running up your ramp with 10 roaches and just winning the game. Watch a few pro games, such as the GSTL Pre Season games, or IEM WC, or the MLG Winter Championship coming up and note down build orders from that. If you can actually stay at plat level with what you're doing, you could probably hit masters pretty easily with a solid, well executed build order.EDIT: You want medivacs earlier than 'after a few engagements'. You should be able to pressure your opponent with 100 supply, two medivacs, +1 finished, a third base and two more barracks building at the 10:00 mark.





thanks for your inputs, I'll try to work on my SCV production then, because I'm usually broke with those production facilities...

only think I'd note is that I usually don't go reapers for a opening... what I meant on the scout is that if I have a reaper, I'll use it to scout before scanning...



about your 10 roach push, depends on the timing... If you're one basing, I'd get 2 bunkers early (and I always wall my nat vs. zerg with depots)... if you're not one basing, the attack is rather later... I play aggressively, if you have nothing else to defend my 4-6 marines and 2 marauders the joke would actually be on you... if you defend with the said roaches, I'd start bunkers #2 and 3 while we cross the map (for speedless roaches don't outrun terran bio)... thanks for your inputs, I'll try to work on my SCV production then, because I'm usually broke with those production facilities...only think I'd note is that I usually don't go reapers for a opening... what I meant on the scout is that if I have a reaper, I'll use it to scout before scanning...about your 10 roach push, depends on the timing... If you're one basing, I'd get 2 bunkers early (and I always wall my nat vs. zerg with depots)... if you're not one basing, the attack is rather later... I play aggressively, if you have nothing else to defend my 4-6 marines and 2 marauders the joke would actually be on you... if you defend with the said roaches, I'd start bunkers #2 and 3 while we cross the map (for speedless roaches don't outrun terran bio)...



You wouldn't have that much by the time my two base ten roach push hit you with those production facilities. Nevertheless, reapers are fine for scouting but going into a starport off the back of them in any non TvT matchup is extremely unsafe. You wouldn't have that much by the time my two base ten roach push hit you with those production facilities. Nevertheless, reapers are fine for scouting but going into a starport off the back of them in any non TvT matchup is extremely unsafe.

hi, what build do you advise doing. cause what I had planned for myself is to do um (TvZ)

reaper expand into mines+starport, and then do a mine drop if able into either bio mines (double ebay, stim researching) or mech (double gas, double fact, 1-2 armories, get mines or thors vs muta...) or so?



and for TvP, reactor marine expo into mines (either play defensively if they look like they are going to attack, or drop with 2 mines and 4 marines)



basically the builds I saw yoda did in IEM.



or are those builds already out of date == hi, what build do you advise doing. cause what I had planned for myself is to do um (TvZ)reaper expand into mines+starport, and then do a mine drop if able into either bio mines (double ebay, stim researching) or mech (double gas, double fact, 1-2 armories, get mines or thors vs muta...) or so?and for TvP, reactor marine expo into mines (either play defensively if they look like they are going to attack, or drop with 2 mines and 4 marines)basically the builds I saw yoda did in IEM.or are those builds already out of date ==



Yeah those builds are fine. I advise you look out for new ones at MLG though, because players like Flash might pull off something incredible which changes the matchup forever and you certainly don't want to miss out on that ^^.



On March 14 2013 05:33 tisalgado wrote:

Show nested quote +

On March 14 2013 05:20 kollin wrote:

On March 14 2013 05:15 tisalgado wrote:

On March 14 2013 04:50 kollin wrote:

On March 14 2013 04:46 tisalgado wrote:

as a new terran player (used to play zerg), I never followed build orders... I've come up with some that work for me, but even them aren't set in stone... I don't know if it only works because I'm bad (platinum), but I'm used to play kind of reactively (as a zerg heritage)... but I feel that whenever I keep enough scout paths avaliable (scv > reaper > banshee/viking > scan) and keep my resources low, I'm safe... so even though I'm not playing "standard", it's standard enough for me not to fall behind in economy and not to be too greedy...



As I said, I don't follow builds, but I usually have up to 2 production facilities per base... (1 or 2 raxes on 1 base, 3 rax and 1 fac on 2 bases and 5-1-1 on 3)...



it varies according to how safe I feel, but that's usually how I roll...



I started it as a response to mau5mat, but I'll morph it into a question... how bad is my thought process?

Without commenting on your thought process, you are far too conservative with production facilities per base. As a general rule of thumb, three per base (all with addons) is generally good. On three base you can easily support 7 barracks, 2 factories, 1 starport as well as double ebay.



About your thought process, it won't work at all past a certain level. If you open reapers, and then go into starport what's to stop me running up your ramp with 10 roaches and just winning the game. Watch a few pro games, such as the GSTL Pre Season games, or IEM WC, or the MLG Winter Championship coming up and note down build orders from that. If you can actually stay at plat level with what you're doing, you could probably hit masters pretty easily with a solid, well executed build order.



EDIT: You want medivacs earlier than 'after a few engagements'. You should be able to pressure your opponent with 100 supply, two medivacs, +1 finished, a third base and two more barracks building at the 10:00 mark. Without commenting on your thought process, you aretoo conservative with production facilities per base. As a general rule of thumb, three per base (all with addons) is generally good. On three base you can easily support 7 barracks, 2 factories, 1 starport as well as double ebay.About your thought process, it won't work at all past a certain level. If you open reapers, and then go into starport what's to stop me running up your ramp with 10 roaches and just winning the game. Watch a few pro games, such as the GSTL Pre Season games, or IEM WC, or the MLG Winter Championship coming up and note down build orders from that. If you can actually stay at plat level with what you're doing, you could probably hit masters pretty easily with a solid, well executed build order.EDIT: You want medivacs earlier than 'after a few engagements'. You should be able to pressure your opponent with 100 supply, two medivacs, +1 finished, a third base and two more barracks building at the 10:00 mark.





thanks for your inputs, I'll try to work on my SCV production then, because I'm usually broke with those production facilities...

only think I'd note is that I usually don't go reapers for a opening... what I meant on the scout is that if I have a reaper, I'll use it to scout before scanning...



about your 10 roach push, depends on the timing... If you're one basing, I'd get 2 bunkers early (and I always wall my nat vs. zerg with depots)... if you're not one basing, the attack is rather later... I play aggressively, if you have nothing else to defend my 4-6 marines and 2 marauders the joke would actually be on you... if you defend with the said roaches, I'd start bunkers #2 and 3 while we cross the map (for speedless roaches don't outrun terran bio)... thanks for your inputs, I'll try to work on my SCV production then, because I'm usually broke with those production facilities...only think I'd note is that I usually don't go reapers for a opening... what I meant on the scout is that if I have a reaper, I'll use it to scout before scanning...about your 10 roach push, depends on the timing... If you're one basing, I'd get 2 bunkers early (and I always wall my nat vs. zerg with depots)... if you're not one basing, the attack is rather later... I play aggressively, if you have nothing else to defend my 4-6 marines and 2 marauders the joke would actually be on you... if you defend with the said roaches, I'd start bunkers #2 and 3 while we cross the map (for speedless roaches don't outrun terran bio)...



You wouldn't have that much by the time my two base ten roach push hit you with those production facilities. Nevertheless, reapers are fine for scouting but going into a starport off the back of them in any non TvT matchup is extremely unsafe. You wouldn't have that much by the time my two base ten roach push hit you with those production facilities. Nevertheless, reapers are fine for scouting but going into a starport off the back of them in any non TvT matchup is extremely unsafe.





Well, I'm sorry if I'm making myself unclear (english isn't native to me), but I don't aim for reapers... and I don't follow reapers with SP... all I meant is that when I have those resources avaliable, I prefer to use them as scouts than scans...



and about your roach push...

on the worst case scenario:

if you're pushing so early that I don't yet have 6-8 units, my scv scout didn't see the roach warren and did not survive to see the move out (or was forced back into my base with lings), I must've been able to scout the gas mining... whenever zergs put gas early, be it for speed, defensive banes or all in, I throw down a bunker on the low ground (location varies on map, but I aim to be able to reach the top of the ramp and defend the command center)... if your push came under those assumptions, I'd try to repair the lowground bunker while building 2 more up the ramp to the main... rally forces inside and lift the nat... if even then I couldn't hold I'd gg out, but that is yet to happen down here at plat Well, I'm sorry if I'm making myself unclear (english isn't native to me), but I don't aim for reapers... and I don't follow reapers with SP... all I meant is that when I have those resources avaliable, I prefer to use them as scouts than scans...and about your roach push...on the worst case scenario:if you're pushing so early that I don't yet have 6-8 units, my scv scout didn't see the roach warren and did not survive to see the move out (or was forced back into my base with lings), I must've been able to scout the gas mining... whenever zergs put gas early, be it for speed, defensive banes or all in, I throw down a bunker on the low ground (location varies on map, but I aim to be able to reach the top of the ramp and defend the command center)... if your push came under those assumptions, I'd try to repair the lowground bunker while building 2 more up the ramp to the main... rally forces inside and lift the nat... if even then I couldn't hold I'd gg out, but that is yet to happen down here at plat



Oh okay, apologies I misunderstood you. Using a reaper to scout in the mid game is completely viable, assuming you can keep that single reaper alive, as having to spend 50 gas whenever you want to scout at that stage can be a pain. In the lategame you should have enough orbitals to scan anyway, so that's not a big deal. As to your point about the roach push, pros consistently die to well executed 10 roach pushes as they are by no means all in and can deal large amounts of damage. Mines now mitigate their damage significantly though.



Yeah those builds are fine. I advise you look out for new ones at MLG though, because players like Flash might pull off something incredible which changes the matchup forever and you certainly don't want to miss out on that ^^.Oh okay, apologies I misunderstood you. Using a reaper to scout in the mid game is completely viable, assuming you can keep that single reaper alive, as having to spend 50 gas whenever you want to scout at that stage can be a pain. In the lategame you should have enough orbitals to scan anyway, so that's not a big deal. As to your point about the roach push, pros consistently die to well executed 10 roach pushes as they are by no means all in and can deal large amounts of damage. Mines now mitigate their damage significantly though. On March 14 2013 05:40 goFLiP wrote:

What's the 2 rax reaper build? What's the idea, transition, etc. Kinda lost in TvT.

It is what it says on the label. You open 1 base, 2 rax reapers. Your aim is to do significant damage to your opponent, and then you just transition into a normal game, i.e widow mines for defence, then marine tank or mech. It is what it says on the label. You open 1 base, 2 rax reapers. Your aim is to do significant damage to your opponent, and then you just transition into a normal game, i.e widow mines for defence, then marine tank or mech.

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