SatedSC2 Profile Blog Joined March 2014 England 3012 Posts #2 That open natural...



You are aware of how PvZ works right..? Masters Protoss | Twitter: @Sated86 | Currently representing @DGeSports | Better to die on your feet than live on your knees...

Purce Profile Joined January 2013 Italy 31 Posts #3 I do not understand how you defend the natural. Does it have two entrances? By the way i think it's a very good map with ramps, chokes, and decorations

Existor Profile Joined July 2010 Russian Federation 4282 Posts #4 I love that night desert and those doodads/decorations near cliffs.

ArcaneHer0 Profile Joined August 2014 United States 1 Post #5 Broken map for protoss. Every protoss will veto this map

The_Templar Profile Blog Joined January 2011 your Country 52593 Posts #6 On August 01 2014 13:38 ArcaneHer0 wrote:

Broken map for protoss. Every protoss will veto this map

There a reason besides the natural (which is obviously in need of further testing at least)? There a reason besides the natural (which is obviously in need of further testing at least)? Moderator Starcraft 3 when

MrSunny Profile Joined September 2011 Australia 73 Posts #7 People are to quick to disprove maps like this i think



It does sound possible to balance an open natural with a easy third. Whether it works or not will depend on protoss' ability to gain foundation for the mid game on 1 base. As a protoss player i find this exciting.



3 gate pressure double expand?

-sLi- Profile Joined August 2012 Germany 17 Posts Last Edited: 2014-08-01 12:36:32 #8

- Bad map for Zerg: Distance of 3rd and Natural is to big and the ramps are very small, so Zerg cant engage propperly vs propper FF, or well placed mines.

- tbqh I think its not even that bad for protoss. Obviously a 3base Protoss has to defend good vs. Drops/Mutalisks but The distances of the bases are somewhat equal to "Overgrowth" so I honestly think it's not that bad for Protoss. 1 Issue for Protoss is perhaps the Natural layout in ZvP, but maybe ther will be some creative ways to wall of.



- Overall I think the map is not bad and I really like the "terran" design, but I am not a fan of the "sand" design, I would like to see the sand replaced with some "protoss-cave"/"Belshire-green" stuff . I would like to have more of the bigger ramps tho. - Ok-Good map for Terran imo, drops + Attack @natural/3rd are the way to go for terran imo- Bad map for Zerg: Distance of 3rd and Natural is to big and the ramps are very small, so Zerg cant engage propperly vs propper FF, or well placed mines.- tbqh I think its not even that bad for protoss. Obviously a 3base Protoss has to defend good vs. Drops/Mutalisks but The distances of the bases are somewhat equal to "Overgrowth" so I honestly think it's not that bad for Protoss. 1 Issue for Protoss is perhaps the Natural layout in ZvP, but maybe ther will be some creative ways to wall of.- Overall I think the map is not bad and I really like the "terran" design, but I am not a fan of the "sand" design, I would like to see the sand replaced with some "protoss-cave"/"Belshire-green" stuff. I would like to have more of the bigger ramps tho.

SatedSC2 Profile Blog Joined March 2014 England 3012 Posts #9 On August 01 2014 14:16 The_Templar wrote:

Show nested quote +

On August 01 2014 13:38 ArcaneHer0 wrote:

Broken map for protoss. Every protoss will veto this map

There a reason besides the natural (which is obviously in need of further testing at least)? There a reason besides the natural (which is obviously in need of further testing at least)?

I think anyone can see that a natural like that is unworkable in PvZ. It doesn't need further testing. I think anyone can see that a natural like that is unworkable in PvZ. It doesn't need further testing. Masters Protoss | Twitter: @Sated86 | Currently representing @DGeSports | Better to die on your feet than live on your knees...

Big J Profile Joined March 2011 Austria 16272 Posts #10 two things:

of course the natural might cause a problem for Protoss. Not only because it has the rocks that need to be broken down for backdoor defense, but also because then the natural wall at the other side is additionally out of PO range.



With how close the third and main are by air and how both only have single forcefield ramps, I think it could be extraordinarily strong for sentry/prisms - though that might be less of a balance and more of a "this makes for shit games"-thing.

The_Templar Profile Blog Joined January 2011 your Country 52593 Posts #11 On August 01 2014 22:45 SatedSC2 wrote:

Show nested quote +

On August 01 2014 14:16 The_Templar wrote:

On August 01 2014 13:38 ArcaneHer0 wrote:

Broken map for protoss. Every protoss will veto this map

There a reason besides the natural (which is obviously in need of further testing at least)? There a reason besides the natural (which is obviously in need of further testing at least)?

I think anyone can see that a natural like that is unworkable in PvZ. It doesn't need further testing. I think anyone can see that a natural like that is unworkable in PvZ. It doesn't need further testing.

Needs further testing because a gateway expand might still work. Obviously a nexus first or FFE is pretty auto-lose. Needs further testing because a gateway expand might still work. Obviously a nexus first or FFE is pretty auto-lose. Moderator Starcraft 3 when

sTYleZerG-eX Profile Joined January 2010 France 427 Posts #13 Verry verry nice, love the bridges 10% luck, 20% skill, 15% concentrated power of will, 5% pleasure, 50% pain, And 100% reason to remember the name!

IeZaeL Profile Joined July 2012 Italy 967 Posts #14 On August 03 2014 04:22 sTYleZerG-eX wrote:

Verry verry nice, love the bridges

I remember you asked on how to make the bridges. You just need to add the "char2 1" cliff type in your map via data editor. It is super simply and very effective I remember you asked on how to make the bridges. You just need to add the "char2 1" cliff type in your map via data editor. It is super simply and very effective Author of Coda and Eastwatch.

-NegativeZero- Profile Joined August 2011 United States 2101 Posts Last Edited: 2014-08-02 20:48:44 #15 On August 03 2014 05:09 IeZaeL wrote:

Show nested quote +

On August 03 2014 04:22 sTYleZerG-eX wrote:

Verry verry nice, love the bridges

I remember you asked on how to make the bridges. You just need to add the "char2 1" cliff type in your map via data editor. It is super simply and very effective I remember you asked on how to make the bridges. You just need to add the "char2 1" cliff type in your map via data editor. It is super simply and very effective

That or one of the Skygeirr Platform cliffs (forgot which one), which is almost identical. The only problem (with both of these) is that the bridge-type cliff only exists at the lowest terrain level.



As for the map:

Of your two options I prefer the first one since the third isn't too close. However I think the original layout was best; the highground between those two third base options was interesting. Just make the counterclockwise nat entrance narrower instead of turning it into a ramp - after all a flat choke is easier to wall than a ramp - and widen the 1 width ramp to the 3rd to 2.



Overall I really like this map, somehow it looks very BW-ish. That or one of the Skygeirr Platform cliffs (forgot which one), which is almost identical. The only problem (with both of these) is that the bridge-type cliff only exists at the lowest terrain level.As for the map:Of your two options I prefer the first one since the third isn't too close. However I think the original layout was best; the highground between those two third base options was interesting. Just make the counterclockwise nat entrance narrower instead of turning it into a ramp - after all a flat choke is easier to wall than a ramp - and widen the 1 width ramp to the 3rd to 2.Overall I really like this map, somehow it looks very BW-ish. i maek map

SatedSC2 Profile Blog Joined March 2014 England 3012 Posts #16 On August 02 2014 14:49 The_Templar wrote:

Show nested quote +

On August 01 2014 22:45 SatedSC2 wrote:

On August 01 2014 14:16 The_Templar wrote:

On August 01 2014 13:38 ArcaneHer0 wrote:

Broken map for protoss. Every protoss will veto this map

There a reason besides the natural (which is obviously in need of further testing at least)? There a reason besides the natural (which is obviously in need of further testing at least)?

I think anyone can see that a natural like that is unworkable in PvZ. It doesn't need further testing. I think anyone can see that a natural like that is unworkable in PvZ. It doesn't need further testing.

Needs further testing because a gateway expand might still work. Obviously a nexus first or FFE is pretty auto-lose. Needs further testing because a gateway expand might still work. Obviously a nexus first or FFE is pretty auto-lose.

1GFE relies just as much on having a wall vs. Speedling all-ins as a FFE does. Protoss would have to open 2 or 3 Gate Sentry expand on a map like this =/ 1GFE relies just as much on having a wall vs. Speedling all-ins as a FFE does. Protoss would have to open 2 or 3 Gate Sentry expand on a map like this =/ Masters Protoss | Twitter: @Sated86 | Currently representing @DGeSports | Better to die on your feet than live on your knees...

Big J Profile Joined March 2011 Austria 16272 Posts #17 On August 03 2014 05:57 SatedSC2 wrote:

Show nested quote +

On August 02 2014 14:49 The_Templar wrote:

On August 01 2014 22:45 SatedSC2 wrote:

On August 01 2014 14:16 The_Templar wrote:

On August 01 2014 13:38 ArcaneHer0 wrote:

Broken map for protoss. Every protoss will veto this map

There a reason besides the natural (which is obviously in need of further testing at least)? There a reason besides the natural (which is obviously in need of further testing at least)?

I think anyone can see that a natural like that is unworkable in PvZ. It doesn't need further testing. I think anyone can see that a natural like that is unworkable in PvZ. It doesn't need further testing.

Needs further testing because a gateway expand might still work. Obviously a nexus first or FFE is pretty auto-lose. Needs further testing because a gateway expand might still work. Obviously a nexus first or FFE is pretty auto-lose.

1GFE relies just as much on having a wall vs. Speedling all-ins as a FFE does. Protoss would have to open 2 or 3 Gate Sentry expand on a map like this =/ 1GFE relies just as much on having a wall vs. Speedling all-ins as a FFE does. Protoss would have to open 2 or 3 Gate Sentry expand on a map like this =/

Yeah, but maybe zealot+MsC+stalker are able to take down the rocks quickly, which would turn it into a standard expansion with backdoor.

Especially, aince the ways from the back to the front are so long, it could even have a "coinflip balance", so that Z has to decide where to attack and if he wall is up there it fails. Yeah, but maybe zealot+MsC+stalker are able to take down the rocks quickly, which would turn it into a standard expansion with backdoor.Especially, aince the ways from the back to the front are so long, it could even have a "coinflip balance", so that Z has to decide where to attack and if he wall is up there it fails.

SatedSC2 Profile Blog Joined March 2014 England 3012 Posts #18 On August 03 2014 06:18 Big J wrote:

Show nested quote +

On August 03 2014 05:57 SatedSC2 wrote:

On August 02 2014 14:49 The_Templar wrote:

On August 01 2014 22:45 SatedSC2 wrote:

On August 01 2014 14:16 The_Templar wrote:

On August 01 2014 13:38 ArcaneHer0 wrote:

Broken map for protoss. Every protoss will veto this map

There a reason besides the natural (which is obviously in need of further testing at least)? There a reason besides the natural (which is obviously in need of further testing at least)?

I think anyone can see that a natural like that is unworkable in PvZ. It doesn't need further testing. I think anyone can see that a natural like that is unworkable in PvZ. It doesn't need further testing.

Needs further testing because a gateway expand might still work. Obviously a nexus first or FFE is pretty auto-lose. Needs further testing because a gateway expand might still work. Obviously a nexus first or FFE is pretty auto-lose.

1GFE relies just as much on having a wall vs. Speedling all-ins as a FFE does. Protoss would have to open 2 or 3 Gate Sentry expand on a map like this =/ 1GFE relies just as much on having a wall vs. Speedling all-ins as a FFE does. Protoss would have to open 2 or 3 Gate Sentry expand on a map like this =/

Yeah, but maybe zealot+MsC+stalker are able to take down the rocks quickly, which would turn it into a standard expansion with backdoor.

Especially, aince the ways from the back to the front are so long, it could even have a "coinflip balance", so that Z has to decide where to attack and if he wall is up there it fails. Yeah, but maybe zealot+MsC+stalker are able to take down the rocks quickly, which would turn it into a standard expansion with backdoor.Especially, aince the ways from the back to the front are so long, it could even have a "coinflip balance", so that Z has to decide where to attack and if he wall is up there it fails.

Do you really think there is time to have your units taking down rocks against a 14/14 Speedling all-in? Even against a Hatch/Gas/Pool Speedling all-in you wouldn't have time to take down those rocks. Do you really think there is time to have your units taking down rocks against a 14/14 Speedling all-in? Even against a Hatch/Gas/Pool Speedling all-in you wouldn't have time to take down those rocks. Masters Protoss | Twitter: @Sated86 | Currently representing @DGeSports | Better to die on your feet than live on your knees...

TheFish7 Profile Blog Joined February 2012 United States 2814 Posts #19



A bit of a crazy and ineloquent idea, but what if you did something like this - it would allow for some sim city...

+ Show Spoiler + If you just made the collapsible rocks regular rocks, that would at least make it possible to get a wall-in up.A bit of a crazy and ineloquent idea, but what if you did something like this - it would allow for some sim city... ~ ~ <°)))><~ ~ ~

IeZaeL Profile Joined July 2012 Italy 967 Posts Last Edited: 2014-08-03 10:23:34 #20 Update time.

Current changelog :



- Main slightly enlarged;

- Highground third slightly enlarged , allowing blink into main;

- Narrowed second entrance of the natural , and added a 6x6 rock. The choke can be blocked by a single zealot+gateway;

- Lowground thirds ramps enlarged ( 2-->3 , 1-->2 );

- Enlarged the lowground third choke;

- New Skybox;

- Slightly doodads changes;

- Pathing Fixed;



New overview







Edit : uploaded on NA & EU. Current changelog :- Main slightly enlarged;- Highground third slightly enlarged , allowing blink into main;- Narrowed second entrance of the natural , and added a 6x6 rock. The choke can be blocked by a single zealot+gateway;- Lowground thirds ramps enlarged ( 2-->3 , 1-->2 );- Enlarged the lowground third choke;- New Skybox;- Slightly doodads changes;- Pathing Fixed;New overviewEdit : uploaded on NA & EU. Author of Coda and Eastwatch.

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