It’s Friday night, October 28, at all-ages punk cafe D-Beatstro on Bloor, just east of Lansdowne, and a disappointingly small number of people – a handful, really – are gathered for a Black Siren Entertainment-organized talk on safe spaces, particularly in Toronto’s all-ages arts scene.

Even the organizer, Black Siren’s Deborah Daniel, acknowledges that it’s hard to show up and talk about these things: how to create safe(r) spaces, how to deal with abuse and harassment, slut-shaming, patriarchy. “But in 2014, so many young women were assaulted at shows and nobody did anything about it,” she says.

Motivated by NOW’s 2011 Teenage Wasteland cover story (“Why is it Halifax can support an all-ages venue and Toronto can’t?,” she paraphrases) and by trying to find safe venues for her teenage daughter, Daniel felt the need to open up a discussion about sexual assault within the all-ages arts community and foster a safer, and more equitable community.

She also announced plans to open a creative hub for youth near Dupont and Dufferin. Daniel and Black Siren colleague Brianne Christensen are looking for a warehouse setting with art studios, rehearsal spaces, performance spaces and maybe a dance studio. It’ll be called YUCK, which stands for Youth Urban Creative Kernel. It’ll be affordable, safe and “everything that youth need to be successful in the arts,” says Christensen.

That news came at the end of the night, after a series of speakers including Project Slut’s Andy Villanueva, Noise Against Sexual Assault’s Kristel Jax and D-Beatstro co-owner Jess Montebello, who wasn’t able to attend but sent a written statement.

“There is no such thing as a safe space… we all have different lived experiences and different needs, but there are steps that can be taken as a community to work toward safer spaces…” Montebello wrote. “Spaces don’t make safe spaces. Spaces can, however, create a dialogue and framework for communities toward creating safer spaces.”

Villanueva, meanwhile, spoke about the project she began when she was 15 to dismantle her school’s dress code. “In TDSB, every school has a different dress code,” she says. “At Central Tech the rule was no showing breasts, female or female presenting.”

She says her activism came out of personally experiencing sexual bullying when she was 14. “School should be a safe space where you can make mistakes,” she says. Wearing whatever you like and being treated with respect are part of that.

Jax brought up the assault in the washroom at Double Double Land last year as an example of what venues can do to become safer. “There have been changes to the venue since then,” she says. “The door to the washroom changed so there is space under and above it, and an emergency button installed in the washroom.”

Double Double Land also hosted a NASA concert this summer after the Danforth Music Hall put on a Swans show despite people asking the venue to cancel the show because lead singer Michael Gira has been accused of rape. Jax says the NASA show had “a similar musical vibe” to the Swans show “but a different general vibe. In the patriarchal society, men are conditioned to feel superior to women and that they have power over people. Most have committed an act not consensual, or committed an act of abuse.”

Jax seemed cautiously optimistic about the increased conversation, positivity, awareness and education surrounding the issue. She says women are coming forward to talk about which people are safe, which bars have staff who are allies and which bartenders won’t do anything if they see someone with a date rape drug.

“And women are talking to men who I hope are allies,” she says. “I’m glad there are guys here tonight – guys talking to guys about what’s not appropriate, not cool.”

The Ontario government is also getting on board. A budget for training bartenders about sexual assault prevention was announced in September: $1.7 million for training for “frontline” workers.

Sarah Greene NOs and YESs courtesy of NASA

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