At a conference in Tel Aviv, Giuliani, the motormouth lawyer for President Donald Trump, was asked whether his employer respects women. In the ensuing conversation, Trump’s treatment of Stephanie Clifford (who stars in and directs films under the name Stormy Daniels) came up. Giuliani went into a tirade that started with challenging whether Clifford deserves even to be called a star. “Stormy the porn star,” the former New York mayor muttered. “You know, every porn person can’t be a star. I never heard of her before.” This seemed to suggest that Clifford can’t be trusted because she’s not as famous as Jenna Jameson or Ron Jeremy. Then Giuliani clarified that he “doesn’t really look at porn.”

Giuliani proceeded to attack the credibility of Clifford’s allegations. “I don’t think there’s a slight suspicion it’s true,” he said. “Excuse me, but when you look at Stormy Daniels. I know Donald Trump. Look at his three wives. Beautiful women, classy women, women of great substance. Stormy Daniels?”

Giuliani then returned to the question of respect. “I respect all human beings,” he grudgingly conceded. “I have to respect criminals. I’m sorry, I don’t respect a porn star the way I respect a career woman or a woman of substance or a woman who has great respect for herself as a woman and as a person and isn’t going to sell her body for sexual exploitation.”

The exchange helped answer not just the question of whether Trump respects women but also whether Giuliani does.