power said: I think Genesect should not be on the initial banlist; it's not at the power level of everything else on the initial banlist. I am also not sure that Genesect is guaranteed to be broken in this format. While it will likely be very good, Dugtrio, Aegislash, and some of the new mons like Corviknight threaten it greatly. It may be broken down the line but I am not sure it warrants inclusion on the initial banlist, especially since Aegislash is also not guaranteed to be broken this gen. Furthermore, Genesects slow speed is a liability in such an offensive meta; it struggles vs rain and faster offensive juggernauts.



Dynamax is also really bad for Genesect. The buffs from genesect matter little to genesect beyond a slight powerup to that coverage move (like sun or electric terrain), but Dynamax will cut short genesect sweeps. For example, Tornadus-T can easily Dynamax, take 30% from a genesect move and kill it back. Click to expand...

After the discussion in this thread and a council vote,Tagging The Immortal It's not clear this mon deserved to be on the initial banlist. Hazard removal has vastly improved since the last time Deoxys-D was last permitted in OU, and National Dex has a plethora of it, in addition to Heavy-Duty Boots and Court Change. Not to mention that Mew performs an exceedingly similar role with its newfound access to Spikes, so Deoxys-D is likely to be a fine addition to the tier.Hopefully these new additions to the meta prove to be interesting!Additionally, we decided not to unban a phew other mons brought up, such as Landorus-I and Pheromosa. Here's our reasoning:Landorus-I seems to be an interesting unban, but we were rather worried about its sweeping potential in conjuction with Dynamax. Access to Max Ooze to boost special attack and Max Airstream to boost speed makes Landorus-I a terrifying sweeper, so we did not unban Lando-I.Pheromosa was banned in SM, which means most people discussing Pheromosa in this thread neglected the new move tutors in USUM, which allows it to muscle past Toxapex and Aegislash with Drill Run. Pheromosa also benefits greatly from Dynamax, easily snacking on priority such as Ice Shard, Bullet Punch, Water Shuriken, Extreme Speed, etc, and having access to Max Knuckle along with Beast Boost make it exceedingly dangerous. For these reasons, we chose not to unban Pheromosa.Some other topics:1) Firstly, communication has been rather sparse from us over the last few weeks. I'd like to fill in everyone a little about what's been going on in National Dex OU behind the scenes. Firstly, we are still discussing what defines a National Dex format. We plan to have a consistent tiering policy for National Dex up soon; this may or may not have a large impact on the tier, but I'd like to mention this because I don't want to surprise anyone with a big change. This is because National Dex formats all need to be consistent with each other, and this means that site leaders and tier leaders for both National Dex AG and OU need to all agree on what constitutes a National Dex format. This is something we could not discuss prior to release because we were unable about how SwSh would structure Dexit, but nonetheless this discussion has been going on for a while and we hope to have a full decision and a tiering policy up soon.2) The question of whether Dynamax belongs in NDOU depends heavily on a consistent and complete National Dex tiering policy. We hope to have this out soon. We also recognize that Dynamax is somewhat problematic in the metagame as it currently stands. Nonetheless, it is not as overbearing as OU; National Dex is a very different format and Mega Evolutions and Z-Move users are unable to Dynamax, limiting the potential for Dynamax. Dynamax is something we are discussing and we hope to follow up on shortly after we formalize the National Dex tiering policy.