PENTA: Well, let’s just say five. Fine, maybe one to five dollars. The only reason you do that is to get experience and get a feel for crowds. You really learn what it’s like to perform in front of a big crowd, a small crowd, or nobody at all. We went through that process, and it was difficult because we weren’t getting paid, and we had to spend our money to do this when we weren’t making any money. We had to invest in ourselves. It was a difficult time, and we know just how hard we worked for this, and how much we struggled. That’s why we defend lucha and wrestling so much. It’s cost us a lot to be where we are. You are a witness to how many Mexicans have come to LA to wrestle, but just how many of us have made it to BOLA? How many of us have made it to PWG? PCW? AAW? My brother is the Heavyweight Champ at AAW. I’m the AAW Heritage Champ. I’ve been Heavyweight Champ there before. Right now, we’re sort of the faces of AAW, a promotion we love very much that has always opened its doors to us, just like [Super Dragon] here at PWG. We’re the first Mexicans to debut at PWG, we’re the first Mexicans to come to the States and had the fans throw money throw into the ring as a sign of respect, we’re the first Mexicans to win the tag team titles at PWG, and we’re talking about titles that only the best in the world have held. We’re the first Mexicans to beat the Young Bucks. We’ve gotten some great things in this business, and we can only enjoy them because we know how much it cost us to get here. We know just how much we went through to earn the little that we have in this business. We’re so grateful that we get to go to places like England, and have fans know who we are, [and] to see people in Japan wearing our shirts. We go to Chile, and people know who we are. We’re going to Australia and Peru soon, and this is only possible thanks to wrestling and lucha libre. Thank you to the fans who have followed us from the beginning. You’re why we do this. We have left our families. We have missed Christmases, my parent’s birthdays, and my kid’s birthdays so we can wrestle for everyone around the world. We really do eat, sleep, and breathe lucha libre.

You’ve both left AAA within the last year, with Penta publicly citing feelings of being held back by the company. You’ve since began appearing regularly for The Crash, a promotion based in Tijuana. What makes The Crash a better fit for you?

FENIX: Basically, we can only do what we know how to do. We spent six long years in AAA, and we never, never had a one on one match. Penta vs. Fenix never happened, and everyone wanted to see that. People in Mexico know us, and if they [were to see] Penta vs. Fenix on a card, people would be excited, but the company never did it. Why? I don’t understand. AAA knows we were a team, but they never let us team together. AAA never gave us the opportunity. The difference with The Crash is that they’ll say “Okay, Fenix, what do you want?” “I want to team with my brother.” “OK, you can team with your brother.” That’s how we feel comfortable. We have more freedom. We serve the company, but still have some freedom. That’s the difference between The Crash and AAA. AAA... um, OK. I don’t want to remember that, but it is special for us to do The Crash. One more thing: The Crash is not a company, The Crash is a family. Every wrestler in The Crash loves [lucha]. Everyone is patient, everyone feels lucha. In AAA, you can’t do that, when the boss doesn’t love lucha, when the big heads don’t know lucha, when the booker doesn’t feel lucha. That is the difference. I hope AAA people hear me in this interview. That is the problem. You can’t do that. When you’re the big head, and you don’t like, you don’t feel, you don’t love [lucha], how can you expect everyone else who works for you to feel that way? Same thing in any family. When the parents don’t like books, how could you want your son to take a book and read when you’re not setting the example for them? I can tell you that in 6 years [with] AAA, I’m only happy [with] one, and it’s the first one because we were living the dream. “Wow I’m on TV! Wow, I’m traveling everywhere!” But after that, it was just the same thing everyday. That’s the best way to describe the difference between The Crash and AAA.

The passion comes back too, surely?

FENIX: Oh, for sure. When I left AAA, I felt like a kid again, brother. OK, [imagine] tomorrow, I have a match with Ricochet. One night before, I’m in my house trying on my gear. I put my mask on, and I’m like “Hell yeah, you are Fenix motherfucker!” In my own house! I’m very excited before my match again. The passion is back with me, and when I was in AAA, I tell you, it’s “Ugh, OK... Tomorrow... one more time... wrestle with La Parka. Ugh, OK. Please don’t wake me up. I want to sleep. I don’t want to go to work. Sorry. It’s the same shit, always. I’m tired.”

You are both among the most featured stars on Lucha Underground, who is affiliated with AAA. With the third season coming to a close, what happens next? Will you still participate in Lucha Underground if it continues?

PENTA: Yeah, we’re waiting for them to call us so we can work. We’re ready. We’re waiting for tapings to start in October, supposedly, for Season 4. We’re ready. We’ve been in contact with people at Lucha Underground, not Dorian [Roldan, AAA Vice President], and they know we’re ready to go. Right now, we’re just waiting for a date. For now, we don’t know when, but we’re ready.

FENIX: [You’re] saying we’re top luchadors in Lucha Underground. I don’t feel that way. I’m just Fenix. I don’t think I’m best in the world. I don’t think I’m one of the top draws in lucha. This is my life. You can’t be smug or conceited. I used to think that way, that I was the best and baddest. You can’t feel that way when all you really know is what’s in your circle. I traveled the world. I met too many guys with many different styles, and there are so many better than me. I thank you for saying we are top guys in Lucha Underground, but I don’t say that.

2017 is the busiest year for you both so far, having wrestled in various countries for more companies than ever before. Is there anybody you haven’t had a chance to have match with yet that you want to? Is there a dream match you haven’t had yet that you want to have?