PHILADELPHIA—For all the attention and oxygen consumed by the “Bernie or Bust” movement in coverage of the Democratic National Convention, they are in fact a distinct minority of the Vermont senator’s supporters. Depending on the poll, for instance, Hillary Clinton is winning between 65 percent and 90 percent of all Bernie Sanders supporters.

That the Bernie or Bust crowd is unrepresentative, however, doesn’t make it uninteresting. I spent time on Tuesday talking to the most vocal of the pro-Bernie protesters at the DNC. In each of my conversations, about a dozen total, a theme emerged. They didn’t want a President Trump, but they also didn’t think Hillary Clinton could win the election. They wanted superdelegates to overturn the primary results and hand the nomination to Sanders. They thought Green Party candidate Jill Stein was a strong alternative. They were most concerned with corruption and the influence of money in politics. They thought the Democratic National Committee had rigged the primaries, full stop, and that Sanders was working against the party and the media. And, somewhat surprisingly, they were big fans of President Obama.

One of them, a 26-year-old Sanders delegate from Atlanta named Scott Brown, spoke at length about his stance, which was emblematic of the “Bernie or Bust” protesters I spoke to. Here is an abridged and edited transcript.

I see you’re carrying a “Bernie or Bust” sign. Can you tell me a little about that?

We just got back from a rally of almost 500 or a 1000 people at City Hall. They had a concert, they had comedians, they had speakers. Hundreds of people were carrying these signs—they were all Bernie or Bust. People in here don’t understand: Hillary isn’t going to beat Trump. Bernie is the one who we know is going to beat Trump. Clinton is down in the polls right now, and it’s scary. Why would you gamble on that?

At this point it’s up to the superdelegates. Neither candidate reached the pledged delegate threshold, so they have to decide.

You’re wearing a “Black Lives Matter” T-shirt. Hillary Clinton won the large majority of black voters in the primary. Have you thought at all what it may seem like to those voters for superdelegates to take the nomination from their preferred candidate? Do black votes matter?

I think if we want to beat Trump, we need to pick the candidate who can clearly beat him. I’m wearing this shirt because a bunch of others were. I’m a Black Lives Matter activist, and I’m wearing this shirt because of that.

Yeah, I’m just wondering if you see any tension?

That’s the system we have. This whole time superdelegates have been lending to the narrative that Hillary’s nomination is inevitable.

Although there has never been a case where superdelegates have gone against the winner.

Yes, but they can do it. And there’s one candidate who can whomp Trump.

So, Bernie Sanders disagrees with this.

I disagree with Bernie about some things.

I guess I’ll try to ask again, do you see any tension between supporting Black Lives Matter and supporting minority voters, and also, “We want superdelegates to take the nomination away from the candidate those voters supported?”

When you put it like that, no, because the other candidate is better on those issues. As far as general fairness, I’d say there is some general tension, but the reality is nonwhite supporters of Bernie Sanders have been largely ignored. And I see this from our black delegates. They are just overlooked.

And a lot of this is the Democratic Party overlooking poor people, many of which are nonwhite people. You go to Atlanta, I’ve knocked on those doors. I don’t think the Democratic Party has. My friend who gave me this shirt, he’s knocked on those doors. The Democratic Party never has. There are just a lot of black people who are not involved in the process. And you know, the younger black vote mostly went to Bernie.

Can I ask if you voted in 2008?

Yes.

2012?

Yes.

Who did you vote for?

I voted for Obama in 2008 and Jill Stein in 2012.

Why did you vote for Stein?

I was involved in the Occupy movement and that was the point where I was fed up with the Democratic Party. They are largely responsible for the financial crisis. Republicans, too, but Republicans are always at fault. They are always bad. We just have to accept that. The Democratic Party is the one we have to make better and make this country better.

Bill Clinton helped push the deregulation that led to the financial crisis. And here in Atlanta, we had a Democratic mayor led by a Democratic president who with a bunch of cities and mayors on the same night conducted evictions in the parks. I was arrested that night by a Democratic mayor, protesting a financial crash caused by a Democratic president, while a Democratic president ordered our arrest. He used our rhetoric but didn’t put any bankers in jail. I’m just fed up with the way corporations run our government.

I like Obama. I like him better in his second term than his first. I wish he could have a third term at this point. If it’s not going to be Bernie, I wish it could be Obama.

So question: Bernie says Hillary Clinton is the best person to further his agenda. Obama says she’s the best person to further his agenda, so …?

The way I look at it is if we keep voting for a lesser evil …

Was Obama a lesser evil?

A little bit. In ’08 we didn’t know. He was really inspiring. A little bit in 2012 I saw him as that. I’d say he’s 50–50. I wouldn’t call him a lesser evil, but I wouldn’t call him overall good. He’s one of my favorite presidents, I think he’s probably the best president, but that’s a low bar.

What I’m really concerned about is someone who is going to do something real about the influence of money in politics. When you take millions of dollars from Wall Street before you run for president and deny that it has any influence on you, that’s fundamentally misleading and that’s the problem with our political system.

I’m going to circle back to what I asked earlier. So, you think Obama is 50–50. You think he’s probably the best president of your lifetime. You’re a big Bernie supporter. Everyone who has endorsed or supported both Obama and Bernie say, if you care about these issues at all, the best available choice is to support Hillary Clinton. You seem to know this and recognize this. I can’t seem to understand why you can’t make the leap?

Well, one, it’s rubber-stamping everything that happened in this election. Which, you know, we’ve talked a little about. The media coverage, the DNC skewing the election. But I think the larger thing is that the Democrats ignore cynics. And cynics are one of the largest political groups in our country. They are totally ignored because they don’t vote. Because they don’t have faith in our political system, because we have candidates that take millions of dollars from Wall Street and say it doesn’t affect them. You think people believe them? I was just outside with thousands of people screaming “Bernie or Bust.” I’m in here representing them.

Read more Slate coverage of the 2016 campaign.