RC: Did you both grow up listening to a lot of hip-hop and jazz?

EK: I got into hip-hop when I moved from Costa Rica to Chicago and my uncle gave me a Beastie Boys cassette, and kids on my bus route were listening to Eminem who was just getting popular. From the age of twelve, I’ve been listening to tons of rap. The first artists I really liked were Pharcyde and other artists that were jazz heavy. I really liked the Beastie Boys’ sound, and I actually think it seriously influenced the sounds that I play now.

I got into jazz in college when I started playing it in the big band, ‘cause I wanted to push my playing into a new direction. I wasn’t that into jazz, at least starting out, but now I love both jazz and hip-hop and I see a lot of commonality between the two.

AS: I didn’t get into hip-hop seriously until I found out that a lot of the well-schooled jazz drummers that I liked were influenced by hip-hop. I was more interested in seeking out those drummers and their influences than the rappers themselves, so I come from a musician’s side of things.

RC: So fast forwarding to now, what are you currently listening to?

EK: I listen to Madvillain’s Madvillainy, J Dilla’s Donuts and Freddie Gibb’s Piñata in the van as go to classics. I like to get new music on cassette so I can listen to it in the van. In terms of new music, I’m really into beatmakers and electronic music, so I’ve been loving this British beatmaker, Sam Gellaitry. In terms of instrumentalists, I listen to Charlie Hunter. He’s like my biggest influence in terms of my playing. I’ve also been really into this group Yussef Kamaal, and BADBADNOTGOOD. I love their stuff. Also everything they do with Kaytranada is awesome, and I really like Kaytranada as well. There’s a ton! We listen to stuff all over the board.

AS: At home, I really like to listen to Run the Jewels and the Deftones. Those are two that I listen to all the time, but besides them I try to seek out players. I really like drummers, so looking through them I find out about new bands and different things like that, more on the jazz side.

EK: I’m more into the experimental side. I just went and saw Japanese Breakfast and I really like them. I listen to Death Grips just about every day.

RC: Since you’re on tour, are all those albums you mentioned physically on cassette tapes that you brought with you?

EK: Yeah! Every time I go to the Bay Area, I go to a cassette tape shop and I probably spend like seventy bucks on cassettes, ‘cause they have all the stuff that I really like that’s on limited format. I collect old cassettes too.

AS: We’re limited with our vehicle. It only has a tape player, so we can’t do CDs or AUX, and we keep trying to buy a tape that has the chord coming off of it, so we can plug in our phones, but it’s all jacked up and won’t work. So yeah, we’re pretty limited in what we get to play in the car. We beatbox and Eli raps a little bit, so we do that in the car too.

RC: Have you guys had any Whiplash-type experiences with really intense jazz musicians or teachers?

EK: Oh, of course.

AS: There are definitely some people who take it to the next level. In my experience, it’s been more of a generational gap, and I think there are different ideas of what the genre is capable of. So there’s the school of thought that jazz was at its highest in the late 50s and early 60s and they don’t get past that and they’re really into reliving that, which is great! I enjoy that music very much and have nothing against it, but part of the thing that Eli and I like about jazz and its culture is the idea of improvisation and being able to fit into the moment, because that’s so important. We open ourselves up to more than the traditional, small combo situation.

EK: Yeah, I’d follow up saying I do a pretty unique thing where I play a custom instrument that has bass strings and guitar strings, and there’s really only one other person who has done that on a really large scale and that’s Charlie Hunter. I remember when I first got my guitar this guy came up to me and he’s like, “well you know you’ll never be as good as Charlie Hunter.” and I’d only been playing a few months and that left me with a really terrible taste in my mouth. We shouldn’t discourage younger players, and I see it all the time from older players. We should be fostering creativity and not shitting on people’s dreams. Even if someone isn’t on the level of your playing abilities, you should try to spread the wealth and knowledge, not be an elitist about it. I really can’t stand that.

RC: I ask that question, and some people think I’m trying to be topical or cliché, but I feel like in jazz it’s common to have intense instructors. In eighth grade, I had a super intense visiting instructor come in and just yell at us, and for what purpose?

EK: If you dedicate your life to something that’s kind of fringe and outside the norm, you’re going to take it really seriously and sometimes, too seriously. People who are doing something that not everyone appreciates, I think, feel like they’re not getting their props or what have you. Especially in jazz, I’ve noticed it’s more prevalent.

RC: Right, it’s a sense of gatekeeping or safeguarding their fringe community.

EK: Yeah, you’ll meet some people who are jaded in the jazz world, because everything is about flexing all the time.

RC: I think it applies to a lot of different disciplines too. The idea that “no, you can’t like this thing now that it’s more popular, because I liked it when it wasn’t and suffered” or whatever. I think it especially applies to comics or “geek” culture when men try to keep women and POC out.

EK: Maybe it’s just all music, but there’s definitely an element of sexism in jazz. I think there are some incredible women in jazz right now and I’m really stoked about that. I really think that in order for the art form to progress, it should be as inclusive as possible. I agree, there is an element of gatekeeping and that sucks, we should stop that.

RC: Totally. Do you have any advice to people who are starting to produce their own music, specifically to people in smaller towns without access to larger music hubs?

AS: It can be very easy to feel overwhelmed and think that because you’re in your grandma’s basement and can’t afford nice things, you can’t record or get your music out there. I think that people can find resources and go out and produce music. You can’t feel held back by certain industry standards or expenses. You need to give people more credit; the listener will be appreciative that you’re going out there and trying to do something. When we recorded this last record for After Ours, we did it in a basement, borrowed friend’s instruments, and the gear we used wasn’t the top of the line. It’s important to just go out there and do it, or you’re going to keep putting it off.

EK: If you love playing music and you love being around it and you want to make it your life, do it. There are already enough people being bankers and lawyers and shit, so if this is really what you want to do, just do it. I stopped having a conventional job two years ago and it was terrifying, but if you want to go out and share your gift with people, you’re almost obligated to do it, ‘cause this is what you’re meant to be doing. Don’t let people get you down because you’re in a small town. You can go to other towns. I like where we’re at, but we’re trying to leave. I’m not going to lie about it, I want to go to other places and get my music out there. It’s hard to summarize in a sentence the lifestyle and journey that you’re going to be on forever.

LINKS:

After Ours Website

After Ours Facebook

The B.E.A.T. Facebook

The B.E.A.T. Bandcamp

sobriquet MySpace