Given that Gregg Araki’s name is one that’s been seen in the credits of a number of notable series in recent years, among them American Crime, Red Oaks, Riverdale, 13 Reasons Why, and Heathers, there’s every reason for a casual viewer to think of him as being just another TV director for hire. If you were coming of age in the 1990s, however, then you’re much more likely to remember when Araki was an up-and-coming indie filmmaker with cinematic sensibilities that left many moviegoers’ jaws on the floor. (We’re thinking in particular of 1995’s The Doom Generation, but there are other films in his oeuvre for which that reaction would be wholly appropriate.)

As such, you may not be surprised that Araki’s new Starz series, Now Apocalypse, is definitely in line with his past work in terms of its WTF quotient, but if you’re a viewer who can keep an open mind, then prepare to have your mind expanded. Decider spoke with Araki not long after he presented Now Apocalypse at South by Southwest, and in addition to detailing the series’ origins in his typically stream-of-consciousness way, he also talked about the cast, the soundtrack, a guest star he was particularly pleased to secure, and how much he’s written of the show’s second season already.

DECIDER: You’re not long back from Texas. How was the SXSW experience for you?

GREGG ARAKI: It was awesome. We had such a good time, and it was really super exciting to see the show in that context and be there with American Gods. Karley [Sciortino, co-creator of Now Apocalypse] and I were talking about it afterwards, and just thinking about the show being beamed out all over the world at that exact moment was kind of a mind-blowing experience. We were really, really happy.

I’d think that a mindset like that could get overwhelming very quickly.

Yeah, well, it’s just that I’ve wanted to do a TV show for a long time, and it’s really for that reason: the idea that the show can reach so many more people than a movie. Because movies are such an effort to see, and you have to be in the right city that has the right theater, and then it lives on online and on DVD or whatever. It’s a completely different sort of animal. And that’s one of the things that’s always been appealing to me about TV: it’s so democratic and just blasted out to people all over the world. The thought of a show like Now Apocalypse going out there like that was really super, super exciting to me.

I’m curious about the origins of the show, in particular because I know that – even though it was eons ago – you did a pilot for MTV called This Is How the World Ends.

Yeah!

Now, I admit that I didn’t do enough research to confirm or deny that they’re actually released, but either way, just based on their titles, there would seem to be at least some mild thematic similarities between This Is How the World Ends to Now Apocalypse.

They’re not connected in a real sense. But they’re connected in a sense. I also did a film in 1997 called Nowhere that was also structured very much like a TV show. Nowhere was very inspired by Twin Peaks. They originally released an extended version of the Twin Peaks pilot as a theatrical feature in Europe, and the notion that we could make a film that was somewhat like a film for a show… I actually had a deal at a certain point after Nowhere came out to develop it as a TV show, and we even went out and pitched it! That was in the late ’90s. So I’ve been dabbling in this TV world and wanting to do a show like this for a really long time.

Throughout the years since then, I’d been working on various projects, but I’d secretly been wanting to learn more about TV and how it’s run. And then in 2015 I directed my first episodic show: John Ridley’s American Crime. He just sort of called me up out of the blue, he was a big fan of my film Mysterious Skin, and the season they were doing of American Crime was about a sexual assault, and it sort of related a bit to Mysterious Skin. A lot of directors like Kimberly Peirce and others of that season were all Sundance-y, indie directors, hey weren’t really TV directors. So John reached out and said, “Would you be interested in directing an episode?” And I had never directed anybody else’s show before, so I said, ‘Oh, okay!” And he was just really cool and super smart.

So for the past few years, after I did that one episode, all of a sudden these other people were calling me to do other shows! So I ended up doing Riverdale and 13 Reasons Why and Red Oaks, of course, where I met Greg Jacobs, I did some really cool shows, and I had a really great time doing it, and I learned so much. I guess what I’m trying to say is that in the ’80s I went to film school at USC, and in the ’10s, I went to TV school on the sets of all these shows! [Laughs.] I learned so much about TV and how it’s run and what a show runner does and what’s involved.

I remember there was a specific point right after one of these shows where I was just thinking, “God, this is so much work! This is kind of insane how much a show runner works and all the responsibilities they have. There’s no way I would want to do this unless it was something I absolutely loved and was 100% my dream show, because otherwise it’s just not really worth it.” Show runners are writing an episode while they’re looking at the edits of the episodes that’ve just been shot, they’re sitting there on set while the current episode is being shot… [Bursts out laughing.] They’re literally wearing all of these hats at the same time! And no show runner I met ever sleeps. They’re just constantly working. It’s such a grind! So I started to think about it, and I was, like, “If I could do this ideal show after all these years of thinking about it, what would it be?”

Around that time, I had met Avan Jogia. [Ed. Note: See above.] He and I worked on a short film together, and I just really loved him and thought he was the coolest dude. He just represented to me this sort of creative soul in this weird new generation. Ulysses sort of talks about it in Episode 1 [of Now Apocalypse], where he talks about how everything has been done. When I grew up, there were still things to aspire to a little bit, and now we’re in this weird, cynical age where everything’s been done and music is dead, art is dead… Everything’s a rehash of everything else! But he was just this romantic soul – he paints, he wrote a book – and he’s just this really cool, artistic kid. And then I also met Karley, ’cause we started to work on a film together. It was the first feature that she’d written, and I’d gotten attached to direct and produce it. And Karley’s also just super cool and super smart and funny, and we really hit it off. We’re very much just kindred spirits in terms of the way we view sex and sexuality and how it’s such an important part of life and growing up.

So between all of these sorts of coincidences, I started thinking about the show: “What if there was a queer fictionalized version of Avan and a fictionalized version of Karley, and they were best friends, they hang out in L.A., they’re aspiring actors trying to follow their dreams, and the Avan character has this hunky roommate…” I had worked with Roxane [Mesquida] on Kaboom and wrote that part just for her. And in thinking about this show, I’ve always been really influenced not only by Twin Peaks but also by Sex and the City and those HBO R-rated sex comedies like Insecure and Girls and all that. In other words, I wanted to do a sex comedy but also this element of the unexpected, which is this whole alien conspiracy and, y’know, you’re wondering, “What’s going on?” Because I wanted to keep the storyline really alive and unpredictable. A lot of times when you have a millennial sex comedy, you run out of story really quickly. Like, everybody’s slept with everybody and everybody’s cheated on everybody. [Laughs.] And you run out of things to talk about! But this show, because of the weird, surreal, “what’s real, what’s a fantasy, what’s a hallucination” world that the show exists in, it’s really kind of a limitless world, creatively.

So it was a super exciting idea for me, and I literally just started to write this spec script, thinking, “I don’t know if anybody would ever do this, but this is what my dream show would be!” And I called Karley up, because we’d become pretty good friends, and I said, “You know, I’m working on this thing. Do you want to do it with me?” And she said, “Oh, my God, yes! Yes!” So we collaborated on the pilot script and had no idea what was going to happen to it, but then I was having lunch with Greg Jacobs one day, and he was, like, “What are you working on?” And I said, “Oh, I’m working on this weird little pilot.” “Oh, I want to read it!” And he flipped about it. He read it and called me the next morning: “Oh, my God, I love this! What can I do to help?”

So he gave it to [Steven] Soderbergh, who’s sort of his partner, and Soderbergh had a special deal at Starz because of The Girlfriend Experience, and the show got greenlit in, like, a shockingly short amount of time! [Laughs.] Which never, ever happens in TV. I’ve had other TV deals before, like my MTV pilot, and the Nowhere thing, and it’s always months and months and years and years of development and this and that and, “Oh, we’re gonna shoot your pilot,” and then something else happens. It takes forever! This happened so quickly that it was kind of a miracle!

As far as the casting goes, as a father with a 13-year-old daughter, I can’t help but notice that you’ve got a former Disney Channel star and a former Nickelodeon star in the mix.

Yeah, it’s kind of crazy! But in this town… I mean, you know, Justin Timberlake and Ryan Gosling were on The Mickey Mouse Club! [Laughs.] So it’s kind of unavoidable. But I do think that the cast that we got, we really just hit the jackpot, I think. It was very much a case of the stars lining up and everything working out in a perfect way. I had no idea if Avan would actually want to do the show. I just literally like to picture people when I write – it’s the only way I can work! – so I was, like, “Oh, the Ford character is kind of like Beau Mirchoff!” And I had met Beau and Tyler [Posey] both at auditions for other projects. I’d never worked with them before, but I’d met them and I just remembered really liking them. So I was thinking of these people in my head when I was writing, having no idea that we would actually get them. Yeah, the cast of the show is pretty much perfect. Just a dream cast. And everybody is so fantastic. They really bring those characters to life in a way I never dreamed possible.

As a music geek, I appreciate your episode titles.

Oh, thank you! Yeah, there was a thing about the episode titles where they were either films or movies or…there’s a couple of book references, too! But a lot of song titles, a lot of music that’s very important to me. And also the music in the show across the ten episodes is really my dream collection off my iTunes. [Laughs.] All my favorite bands! Also, it was really fun the way it was like Coachella or the FYF Festival, where it’s a blending of the new and the old. You know, these brand new bands that very few people have ever heard of and these older, established people and bigger people. I can’t believe we got Frank Ocean! And there’s a Nine Inch Nails song in the season finale that really blows my head off! Like the cast of the show, the music is really incredible.

You obviously came in with a very distinct mindset for the show. Was there ever any push back from Starz? Was anyone fretting, “Will the mainstream get it?!”

That’s really what made this experience so special. I was joking with Greg Jacobs about it: it was such an ideal experience that it’ll probably never happen again! So I cherish every moment of it! The cast is so perfect, and Soderbergh and Greg Jacobs were so supportive, they were so perfect. Karley’s one of my best friends, we had such a blast working on the scripts. Everybody really loves everybody, everybody gets along, and Starz was so fantastic with us. We went in there to literally pitch, “This is gonna be the craziest, sexist show that’s not like any other show on TV. It’s gonna be insane!” And they were, like, “Bring it on! That’s exactly what we want!” And they literally never said “no” to us. They never said, “Can you tone this down?” or “Can you compromise this?” or “This is a little too crazy.” And across the 10 episodes, shit gets pretty fucking crazy! [Laughs.] It was kind of amazing to me.

It was really the limits of my imagination, in terms of where we could take it, so it was a dream thing. Everything I’ve ever wanted to do is in these 10 episodes, and that kind of thing never happens in Hollywood…and probably will never happen again! But I really so appreciate how supportive they’ve been. And they love the show! They’re so behind it, they’re doing so much to promote it… Everybody at Starz, this is their favorite show! So my hats are off to them. I’m so grateful for this. Because I don’t think anybody else would’ve done this show! I’m still sometimes surprised that they let us do it!

In your films, you’ve had a history of offering up some truly amazing cameos by people you wouldn’t necessarily expect to see in films. Are you planning to go in that direction for the series as it progresses?

You know, doing those was really so cool. I mean, that’s one reason I wanted to do TV for awhile: just to have this big universe to work in and this big canvas of 10 episodes. There’s all kinds of cameos – people and music! – appearing from all the movies I’ve ever done. And Henry Rollins, who I actually remember trying to get in Nowhere back in the ’90s, he agreed to be in it. It was really just such a cool thing to be able to have so big a story to tell and to be able incorporate so many elements like that.

Do you have a favorite cameo that you’ve scored over the years, that you were the proudest to get?

Not really. I mean, I never think of the cameos as being stunts. I always thought of them as being… Well, the way I used to describe it is that I’m very into surrealism and this weird, hallucinogenic world that these characters live in, and it’s sort of like when you fall asleep in front of the TV and you have weird famous people of popping up in your dreams. [Laughs.] That’s the way I think of it. I don’t think of it, like, “Oh, let’s have this cheesy cameo by Paris Hilton!” or whoever. It’s not really about that. It’s more just the weirdness of it, the psychedelic nature of it. That’s really attractive for me. I have to say, I was really proud about the Henry Rollins thing. When we asked him, I was really not sure if he’d do it, because he’s turned me down before. But he was so cool, and the cast was so excited about it.

As far as the season goes, when the closing credits on the season finale roll, does it reach anything resembling even a semi-conclusion?

Actually, Starz has sort of broken their own format just for us, and they’ve actually released all 10 episodes of the season on the app. So all 10 episodes are now available for binging. So you can see ’em all for yourself, and then you can tell me if you think the show sort of peters out. Because I think it just gets crazier and crazier with every episode! And 8, 9, and 10… I mean, I love every episode of the show, but 8, 9, and 10 – and 9 and 10 in particular – are some of the best things that I’ve ever done, and I’m so proud of them. And the season finale… It’s nuts. It’s really just nuts. Like, I can’t wait for people to see it and just go, “What… What did I just watch?!” [Laughs.]

I guess what I was really going for was to suggest that when you end a season with an episode entitled “Everything is Gone Forever,” it doesn’t necessarily lead one to believe that there’s a Season 2 in the offing.

We’re actually writing Season 2! We don’t have a green light yet, though, so fingers crossed! [Laughs.] But they’ve actually ordered scripts for Season 2, and we’re deep into writing it right now. As I said, it’s really cool, this show, because the way we set the universe up where almost anything can happen, it makes it a really fun show to watch. When Greg asked, “What’s Season 2 gonna be like?” I told him, “The one thing I don’t want to do is repeat Season 1. I love it so much, it’s kind of the perfect season, but I don’t want to repeat it so that it’s the same thing over and over again.” So it’s completely different. Of course, our cast is the same and everything continues, but we’re in a completely different world. We sort of reboot six months later, and the characters are all in different places. It’s really fresh. I’m writing Episode 7 of Season 2 right now, and it’s gonna be even crazier and even more mind-blowing than Season 1. So I just hope we get to make it! That’s my big thing right now.

I can’t help but be reminded of the end of Twin Peaks – both the original series and the most recent incarnation – and how, despite the fact that both endings made you desperately want to see what was going to happen next, you knew in your heart of hearts that maybe there wouldn’t be.

Yeah, you might have to wait another 25 years for more Twin Peaks. [Laughs.] For our show, if it’s happening, you’d probably only have to wait until next year. So I’m hoping it all works out, because I’ve really gotten emotionally invested in these new scripts, and we go to some really cool new places.

I’ll definitely keep my fingers crossed. I’ve enjoyed what I’ve seen, and I’ve had friends who’ve posted, “I realize this won’t be everyone’s cup of tea, but if you’re friends with me, then we share similar tastes, so you should really give it a try.”

[Laughs.] You know, the show’s weird to me, because I feel like it’s definitely very much its own thing. I think that’s why I love it so much. It definitely marches to its own drummer, and it’s very unapologetic in that. But I’m finding it really strange in that a lot of people I would not expect to really like the show or get the show, theyit! At the Post House, there’s this sound editor who’s an older straight guy in his late 50s or 60s or something, and he was was literally, like, “Oh, my God, I’m obsessed with this show! Like, I can’t watch the episodes fast enough? What happens to Cleopatra in Episode 9?!” Because I think of the show as hewing toward younger people and women and gay guys, that specific audience.

But that’s one of the things I’m so excited about with TV. I was talking to Karley about it, and I was just, like, “You know, just the thought that somewhere there’s someone who’s 80 years old watching this show and going, ‘Oh, yeah, I like it! The colors!” The idea that you can reach these people that aren’t just the ones who go to Sundance or who know what independent cinema is. TV is this thing that goes out to everybody, to all of these random people. It’s like I told Karley: there’s probably some married guy in the closet out there in Iowa or something who secretly watches this show when his wife and kids are asleep. TV is for the masses, It’s for everyone. And that’s just super exciting and fun for me to think about.

Will Harris (@NonStopPop) has a longstanding history of doing long-form interviews with random pop culture figures for the A.V. Club, Vulture, and a variety of other outlets, including Variety. He’s currently working on a book with David Zucker, Jim Abrahams, and Jerry Zucker. (And don’t call him Shirley.)

Stream Now Apocalypse on Starz