Caracol I: Mother of the Caracoles, Sea of Our Dreams

La Realidad

History of Autonomous Government

Lorena (Promoter in the Three Areas. MAREZ San Pedro de Michoacán)

Before 1994, in what was the clandestine period, some of us compañeros and compañeras who had been working were already participating also since that time in the collective work, in different tasks that we had realized, but in that time no one thought that was already autonomy. Us health promoters participated there, we worked, we already had that work, the compañeros built a clinic called Pox, that clinic was staffed collectively, but in that time it was clandestine, no one knew how the work was, how the participation was; but that work was done, there was participation in that clinic. Like this we were working, no one imagined, no one knew that was going to be for what we are seeing now.

After this, when we declared war in 1994, we continued doing the work, we gave it more strength to be able to keep working, to keep participating in the different spaces where we were organized. We were supporting each other to see in what way we could do the work, but because of us being in the war we were losing the authorities of the communities, the local authorities, the agents of the community were being lost, as if they were becoming uncontrolled in the communities.

Also the leaders realized how we were working at that time, that the structure which we already had before the war had been lost. They saw that we could not continue like this, they took that work to control the people from civil society who arrived because we did not have that idea of how to be able to control them in each community, in each town where we work. That is why in that time they did that work, they saw how they are going to keep working, but they saw that they were not the ones who had to do that work, it was then when they told us that we had to prepare ourselves more to see for ourselves how we have to work.

They looked for other compañeros to analyze that problem which there was, that it was not the leaders job to do this. They made a call to the people and talked about all that work which they were doing but was not their responsibility, they talked about the work that they had to do because they saw that we were uncontrolled in the towns. They looked for the way to be able to work, they looked for the way in which we are going to work. Those compañeros discussed, saw that we have to form groups, organize ourselves, and that is when the creation of the 38 autonomous municipalities was declared in December 1994. Then the local and municipal authorities were already seeing the work, they have a position to be able to see the people, to be able to organize more, to be able to keep working better, to control in what way we are going to continue.

That is why the authorities saw that work which we are going to continue and that is how we can say now what autonomy is. With resistance we see that we now can force ourselves to carry the work forward, before we could not advance, but from the things which are being presented in our communities now we realize that yes we are going to advance.

Doroteo (Former member of the Junta de Buen Gobierno. MAREZ Libertad de los Pueblos Mayas)

participated in the work of autonomy before the juntas de buen gobierno were formed, because there in our zone the autonomous municipalities were grouped together and then a directive association of municipalities was formed and we were participating in it. Then the formation of the juntas de buen gobierno took place and I was part of the first team in the Junta de Buen Gobierno in my zone, thus we are going to tell you a bit of the history that we remember of how the steps in autonomy were being taken until arriving to where we are in these moments.

Before 1994 different work was being done, as today we continue doing it, although it was very minimal in that time but is worked to give way to what today we continue to do. In 1994 with the war the towns were uncontrolled in civil matters, in the civil structures of the authorities, like commissioners and municipal agents, but the problems and matters to be resolved did not finish, they always were present, civil problems took place, civil necessities, but there was no one to control them, to resolve them.

The military and political leaders took those tasks, and they took them for a time. But then they realized that it was not their role, so once again the movement began to organize local authorities, commissioners, and agents, in the Zapatista towns. So the new local authorities began to take up the matters of justice and began to see how to resolve the civil necessities, like health, education, and other things.

Some months after those towns began to group together, all from the initiative of the military and political leader compañeros, the towns grouped together and like this we got to December 1994 with the publication of the 38 autonomous municipalities. There in our zone, in that time four autonomous municipalities were formed, one of them is San Pedro de Michoacán, which in that time had its municipal seat in Guadalupe Tepeyac; the following municipality was Tierra y Libertad, with its municipal seat in a community which is called Amparo Aguatinta; the following municipality is Libertad de los Pueblos Mayas, with its municipal seat in a community which is called Santa Rosa el Copán; and the following municipality is General Emiliano Zapata with its municipal seat in Amador Hernández. That is how what are the civil matters began to be worked more formally and like this autonomous government was born. All this was born because we in the towns before creating the autonomous municipalities declared ourselves in resistance and many necessities came that had to be resolved, that is why the necessity was seen to group ourselves together in towns, in regions, and form our municipalities and like this autonomous Zapatista government was born.

All that was taking place according to what was within our reach of abilities and possibilities in the towns. An example we can cite: the municipality San Pedro de Michoacán did not have a town hall like the other three, in that time that municipality used as a town hall a dormitory in the IMSS hospital, which is in that community. The municipality Tierra y Libertad in that time used an abandoned house that some people who there they called appraisers had left, who did I don’t know what, but they left their abandoned house and that house was used as the town hall. In the municipality Libertad de los Pueblos Mayas they used the town school, in General Emiliano Zapata they used a building, an abandoned house, and that was the town hall. Like this the work of autonomy began in the zone, according to the possibilities of the towns and the abilities of the compañeros, because no one was prepared for this but necessity forced us to and we had to do it. Like this time was passing and there in the zone we were working in this way. So with the war declaration and with the declaration of the peoples in resistance, the solidary brothers and sisters from different countries and different states of our country began to arrive at our communities.

Unfortunately since our zone is very lacking in communication, the towns were few and the regions were few which had communication in that time, the solidary people began to get to know some towns more than others and in those they began to focus their support more, as much with economic resources and with aid in some work; while, in the other more marginalized towns they did not know if that aid was being given, if it was arriving.

So the political and military leader compañeros, realized that a disequilibrium was taking place among the towns, or rather that it was not level, they realized that as much with the aid, as well as in the work that was being organized in each municipality, was not level. That was how by their initiative the municipal councils met, they began to make their assemblies to begin to see how each municipality is, what aid it has, what work is being realized, what work is being organized to reinforce the resistance more.

Many meetings began to take place and back in 1997, after several meetings, they named the assembly of municipal councils the Association of Autonomous Municipalities, this is what the meetings of municipal councils that took place were called. The months passed, the years passed, and the work was done like that, organized. In that time the association of municipalities began to see the tasks, the health, education, and commerce work, and during that time a general store was created, which is in a village called Veracruz, with the idea of supporting the workers who are in the hospital that is in San José del Río full time, in the municipality of San Pedro de Michoacán; that was the work, initiatives that were taking place in those meetings of the Association of Municipalities.

Getting to 2002, the compañeros of the association of municipalities, decided to name a group of compañeros who were in charge of handling the coordination of that health, education, and commerce work. Seven compañeros and one compañera were named, there were eight compañeros who were in charge of handling the coordination of that work, that group of compañeros was called the Directive of the Association of Autonomous Municipalities. We were working like this, just as it began in the municipalities, with the conditions that our towns have.

We kept working we got to 2003, with the formation of the juntas de buen gobierno. We got to the juntas de buen gobierno but in our zone we did not know if the members of the directive of the association of municipalities some day would be authorities and be government. In 2003, when the juntas de buen gobierno were created, the people and the association of municipalities decided that those eight compañeros, members of the Directive of the Association of Municipalities, would go on to be authorities in the Junta de Buen Gobierno. Those eight compañeros are the ones who took the positions in the first period of the Junta, which was from 2003 to 2006, that is how it took place under the same conditions which the people had, the Junta de Buen Gobierno did not have an appropriate building.

Days before the juntas de buen gobierno were made public the towns constructed, in an urgent way, a building for the Junta de Buen Gobierno and a building for each one of the autonomous municipalities, in the middle of the caracol, the offices were constructed with the materials which the towns had in that moment, used wood, used metal sheets, and like this it began. The constructions were made and in less than one week they were finished, like this it began, their offices were ready, August 2003 came and the juntas de buen gobierno were made public.

After the publication the towns got together, proud of having formed one more government body in autonomy, and with a party, with a great celebration, they formally installed the new autonomous government, handing over the office to the new authorities; we can say that it was a ton, but the people turned over a table and two chairs to the Junta de Buen Gobierno, that was their material, and a building a little bit smaller than this space where we are now, that is how the conditions were in which we began. Days later, someone out there donated a little machine of the oldest sort and with that the work begun, we received the empty space and we began like that, the work initiatives were taking place and we were beginning, arranging the space.

The government being formally installed, one of the first tasks was to organize the work areas. The work areas were organized according to the necessities, that were taking place in the towns. There in the zone they organized in the beginning nine work areas: health, education, commerce, transit, administration, agriculture, justice, human rights, and encampments.

These areas were formed and eight compañeros had to take them, aside from that they also organized to cover the office work permanently. Groups of two compañeros were organized for two-week shifts but that did not last, two shifts and we realized that it does not work, two compañeros cannot handle all of the tasks that had to be done there, for eight or nine areas two compañeros are not enough. We were forced to form two teams of four compañeros per team and work for two weeks each team, each one of the team members taking charge of two areas, like this we worked until finishing the period.

Those were some of the Junta de Buen Gobierno’s first tasks, although aside from those there were other extra ones which we also had to cover as authorities and as government. What happened was that upon knowing that we are in the office, many people, compañeros and non-compañeros, came to us for different matters, for different things.

We had to act as lawyers, like in the system we can say, who have their lawyer for different matters, there we had to act as lawyers, we had to advise different people, the compañeros when they have a problem, we had to advise them on how they have to resolve the different problems that they had, giving them ideas was what we had to do. We also had to be secretaries, because if you resolve a matter you do not have a secretary who makes the documents for you, we ourselves had to do it.

More or less one month after the beginning of our roles as the Junta de Buen Gobierno, a problem manifested itself with an organization called the CIOAC; they kidnapped one of our compañeros along with a truck, so we were forced to denounce it but we did not have an idea of how to make a denunciation. The members of the Junta de Buen Gobierno and the municipal councils had to give our word, one or two words, to make that denunciation as a team, each one giving their word and like this we formed a denunciation, it was very difficult for us but we did make it.

We did many tasks, we acted as secretaries, we acted as cooks, we acted as sweepers because we had to clean our office and our whole work area, we did not have someone in particular to do those tasks and we keep doing it like this as of the present day.

When we were already in our roles, the towns and the municipalities began to discuss how this group of compañeros had to be supported, because they are permanent in their work. Organization began and the towns decided to provide a contribution of 10 pesos each one, 10 pesos per person in the zone, to give 30 pesos per day to those compañeros while they were on their shift.

The work was done in this way for some months, each compañero who covered their shift had to receive their 30 pesos per day, those were the towns’ agreements, but some months later, one of the military leaders, together with the political leaders explained to us the advantages and disadvantages of support of that type. Analyzing the advantages and disadvantages which they explained to us, as a team we the Junta de Buen Gobierno decided to suspend that support and it was made known to the people why we decided to suspend it.

We analyzed that it was not the viable path to become accustomed to working in that way, thus it was made known to the people and each town, each region, each autonomous municipality discussed another type of support, some were supported in one way, others in another way, but no longer with money. Since then and until the present moment there has not been more support with money, that is how we realized that money is not what can help the work of autonomy or the work of autonomous government.

There we realize that no one is working with a base in money, we see that some do receive support from their town in their work, with basic grains, different support according to how the town goes agreeing upon it, but not money and that is how we have been working these nine years in the Junta de Buen Gobierno. With that we realize that conscience and desire to serve our people is the greatest thing and it is what makes everything work, it is not money.

Like this we kept working and one year after that first period of the Junta de Buen Gobierno began, it was put into discussion with the people how it is that the changes of authorities must be done, because we realized that upon our departure, the whole team, a new team was coming in, all new and we felt that we are obligated to advise those new compañeros with our experience.

Seeing this the initiative was launched with the towns that one year before we left office, at the very least one compañero for each municipality is to be named to begin the work together with us one year before, the idea is that he stays when we go and he is the one who advises the new compañeros. In this way it has been handled until the present day, the authorities there do not change as a whole team, some leave, others stay, and like this it has been working.

Questions

I did not understand well the support that the towns give to the delegates of the Junta de Buen Gobierno, but principally I want to know how they are organized at the zone level of what is Caracol I.

Different types of support were given after that. They support some compañeros in their work, it was different what each town agreed upon. If the compañero must be given the two weeks which they go to cover their turn, well 15 compañeros are going to work in his or her milpa, if the compañero must be given 50% well they give 7 or 8 days, and those days have to be supported for the service of the people. Others no, they are supported with their grains, their corn, their beans. And it is worth telling you also that some compañeros do not receive any type of support, their town did not come to any agreement, but the compañero did not fall behind and carried forward the work.

The question is if only the town where the compas live is the one which supports them or is it the zone.

After that there was no support at the zone level, the towns organized and some at the municipal level, but since that occasion and up to the present, there has not been support at the zone level.

How much time does each period of the Junta de Buen Gobierno last?

Three years, thus we have already passed, with the current Junta that is there now, four teams of compañeros. Each compañero who completes their period, the period is three years of work.

Has it happened that there are compañeros who lose heart and leave their position?

Yes it has happened that there are compañeros who lose heart in their position for different reasons and they leave. Some say “This is why I’m leaving,” or they explain their reasons, others don’t even explain to us, they leave their shift and don’t come back. So we are forced to inform their town where that compañero is, and that town has to name another compañero to substitute to not leave the space empty.

Is the Junta de Buen Gobierno separate from the Council?

That’s it, there is a team who their task is to do the work of the Junta de Buen Gobierno, apart from that there are the Autonomous Municipal Councils.

Since the beginning of the Junta de Buen Gobierno was there participation of compañeras as members of the Junta or years later? What did the compañeras do to enter into their role as the Junta de Buen Gobierno?

Since the beginning there was a compañera participating, because one of the compañeras who began in the Junta de Buen Gobierno was part of the Association of Autonomous Municipalities, and since the directive team of the association of municipalities went on to be the Junta de Buen Gobierno, well that compañera also went on to be the Junta de Buen Gobierno, and like this work was done in the whole period, with a compañera. In the second period there already were more compañeras because work had to be done in the towns, to make conscience with the compañeras so that they participate and like this it was taking place. In the second period there were six compañeras and now in this period there are twelve compañeras. Like this, with much sacrifice and much effort, the compañeras have been giving their participation.

What do the compañeras do, do they choose among themselves in the municipality or is it together with the men and women that the compañeras are named? What is the way in which the compañeras are chosen?

There is an agreement that goes per municipality the choosing of the compañeras. Each municipality has to contribute one compañera or two compañeras, according to how it may be, and it goes per municipality, arriving in the municipality it goes down to the towns. In the municipality they agree on which compañera has to do the work, they have a shift in which it is checked which town has not contributed a compañera to the Junta, like this they do it with the men also, with the compañeros, it is seen which town has not contributed and that one is responsible for contributing a member for the Junta de Buen Gobierno, it can be a compañero or a compañera.

If it is necessary to choose a compañera not only the compañeras meet and choose her, the assembly is done, men and women, all the participants, so there the compañera is named. Like this it is done, it is like a shift that the towns take, so then the town that is responsible has to choose within its members who is going to do the work, it has to take out the authority then.

How many members of the Junta are there?

In the first Junta, eight; in the second, twelve; and now in the current one, 24 compañeros. It is worth mentioning that the members for the Junta are chosen in this way, that it is necessary to go making a shift in the towns and in the municipalities, well a team comes out for the Junta, a group of compañeros leave and new ones stay. Currently, with the new selection which was done two or three months ago, for the following period now it has changed, it was seen that that way did not work, so by agreement of the zone now it is a matter of looking for compañeros who are known for their performance in their work, for their experience and like this the current ones are chosen who will enter into the role for the following period.

How many municipalities does the Junta de Buen Gobierno encompass?

In our zone there are four autonomous municipalities.

The members of the Junta how do they get to their caracol?

If there is public transportation well they go with transportation, if there is no transportation they go walking. Their fare comes from the few resources that the Junta has, that they do receive, the support for their fare nothing more. If it is 20 pesos well their 20 pesos to return and their 20 pesos to get there.

How is the food of the members of the Junta covered?

It is the same, it is supplied with what the Junta has. In the beginning, in the first period of the Junta, each compañero had to carry their tortillas, only their tortillas. Then later in the following periods it was changing and now everything is done with the resources that the Junta has.

When the delegates leave some leave and others stay, is it from the same team which stays or how?

No, in the beginning we were eight members, we were like that and two years later, at the beginning of the third year four more members entered, four new members. The eight first ones who began in 2003 left in 2006, but the four who entered in 2005 had to leave in 2008, and like this they again named four more, and like this it came to be done as a stairway so that when there is a change of authorities they are not all new, but rather there are already compañeros with experience.

We realized that if a team is going to be on the Junta de Buen Gobierno three years, when those three years of their period are up they are going to leave and other new ones are going to enter, the problem is that the new ones do not have a clue, they do not know anything about how the work is going to be done. So what was seen is that before the group that is on duty leaves, a group that works with those who are going to leave has to enter, they enter one year before the period is finished so that they can learn how the work is, and now those who completed their three-year period can leave freely. The idea is that the one which entered one year before more or less already has experience and can teach it to the rest, that is why as of today it continues like this, so that more or less there already is a bit of experience in the new team which is going to stay.

We understand that when there is a general assembly in the zone, the assembly is the maximum authority in that moment and when the assembly is finished after two days or three days, the command is left in the Junta de Buen Gobierno, so when there are emergency things, like a hurricane or whatever it may be, can the Junta decide what to do or does a special assembly have to be convened? Do you have an emergency plan?

The truth is that there is not any plan, but when problems like that take place it is decided what to do, some principles might be violated, but it is not because it is done from bad intentions, like to say that there is a desire to take the place of the people, it is decided because they are emergency cases. But since we have the municipal councils on hand an assembly is made, urgently, among the councils that we have on hand in their office in the caracol and the Junta, and some immediate, quick decisions are made.

For example, we the first ones in the Junta de Buen Gobierno were responsible for seeing a problem like that with Hurricane Stan on the coast. What happened? Today it took place and the next day they are asking us what we have to do, at that time we could not convene a special meeting because our compañeros in the towns live far away, a great distance, so a meeting had to be made between the Junta de Buen Gobierno and the Autonomous Municipal Councils, we had to provide a bit of support to the affected compas with what the Junta was able to at that time, with the resources that it had at that time. The day after we received the information a team from the Junta traveled, went in a truck with some provisions and took it to where the compañeros were, but they also convened special meetings to see how they could support the towns, according to their possibilities, with corn, with beans, with tortillas, with some other things that can support those compañeros.

It was done like this in that case, the Junta began to see how to support the compañeros with their own resources that they had, and then it was made known to the towns what it is that was done. Then came the support from the compañeros from the towns giving their contribution of corn, of beans, and then came the solidary support from other countries and from other solidary brothers and sisters here in Mexico. The helping went like this then later with more food, with the reconstruction of their houses and other necessities. But there is not a plan that the people have made for emergency cases, but it has been done in that way, we have the municipal councils on hand and with them we make agreements to resolve in the moment.

The resources for that shop that was made came by way of a collective work or was it a donation? What work was done or how was it advancing?

In that time when the store was made, there was a disequilibrium between the autonomous municipalities, or rather the municipalities that there were some had a fund, others did not have a fund; some had projects, others did not have projects; some had donations, others did not have donations; so the complaint came. The association of municipalities did a meeting and there it began to be discovered, it began to be delved into and seen how we were in the zone. So then there was the hospital in San José del Río, in the hospital there were compañeros but they did not report, or rather it was uncontrolled, not even the municipalities to which they belonged knew if there was a donation or not, so it was loose.

When there then were the authorities of the four municipalities, the authorities of the association of municipalities, they took the role as a common authority, and they had to bring in those who had work and who belonged to the zone. They dragged the compañeros who were in the hospital and they asked them for reports, they asked them how they were spending the donations that came in over the years that they then had working there, they asked them for reports and they asked them what was left in that moment, they were asked if there was something and what they were going to do with that which was left.

The truth is that there was no plan on what to do with those donations, they were being spent on food, that is why the association of autonomous municipalities decided that it was not going to continue to be done like that, it was said that what there was there was ours. In that time there were 40 thousand pesos that were stored, getting moldy, as it is said, and the compas from the association of municipalities saw that there also was an abandoned shop that before belonged to the government.

“Now it is ours. We have to put in supplies to sell retail and wholesale,” said the compas from the association of municipalities.

So the compas made an agreement: we are going to take this money, but it is not so that we are going to spend the capital, which is 40 thousand pesos, we are going to invest it and take the profit and return it to the hospital so that it keeps functioning, so with what is being generated we go along supporting those who are controlling the hospital, but now reporting, on how they are spending it from here forward. And that is how it was, it was money that was asleep, which are donations from our solidary brothers and sisters, so it had to be created into something so that it is not just there, the funds were allocated to settle to expenses of the permanent personnel of the hospital in San José del Río; in other areas, like commerce, they are going to talk to us about how many shops they have now, but the result is thanks to what the first shop gave.

Roles of Autonomous Government

Fanny (Member of the Junta de Buen Gobierno)

In autonomous government, in the work of being a local or municipal authority and on the Junta de Buen Gobierno, responsibility is assumed through conscience. In autonomous government we are functioning through conscience and without any interest in earning a salary, because the participation of all is needed for the proper functioning of autonomous government. Serving the people is done with the conscience that each one of us has, not through money, it is not with the interest of earning a salary, but rather is serving our people, with support or without support per se we are realizing the work of the construction of autonomy.

In the second period of the Junta de Buen Gobierno the compañeros were supported on two occasions each one, they were supported with 800 pesos, this support was only given two times during the three years of their period. In the third period of the Junta de Buen Gobierno some compañeros were supported by their towns, according to how the town was organized is how the compañeros were supported. The fares of the members of the Junta de Buen Gobierno were taken from the resources of the Junta, which are the resources of the people, this is how supporting comes regarding fares and other support for the authority compañeros.

Also the participation of the compañeras was being promoted because in the first period of the Junta de Buen Gobierno only one compañera participated, and there was where the promotion of the compañeras’ participation began. In the second period there were already six compañeras who realized that work. In the third period there are now twelve compañeras who are realizing the work within autonomous government.

In this work that is being promoted the participation of the compañeras is being demanded, this is done through assemblies. We see that there is more participation of the compañeras in the various work areas that we are realizing, like in education, health, and in other work areas. That is how we see that the participation of women is advancing more, it is not at 100%, but more participation of women is being seen.

Also within autonomous government various work areas are handled, as with education, commerce, health, communication, justice, agriculture, transit, projects, encampments, BANAPAZ, BANAMAS, and administration. These are the work areas which are being handled within autonomous government.

In the beginning, when the Junta de Buen Gobierno began, since the compañeros were few, each one was responsible for three to four work areas, they were very few. In the second period of the Junta there were already twelve compañeros and the work that we had to do was being balanced more, there were then two or three work areas per compañero. In this third period of the Junta de Buen Gobierno there are 24 of us, the work has now balanced more.

There are 24 of us who make up the Junta de Buen Gobierno and we cover a shift of two weeks each month. The various work areas are balanced between compañeras and compañeros, we are two teams in the Junta, in each area there are two compañeros and two compañeras, that is how the functioning of the Junta de Buen Gobierno is, they are the areas which are handled.

Questions

How has the participation of women been promoted in your zone?

It is being promoted through meetings with the autonomous councils and the towns, that is how that work has been realized. The participation of the compañeras has been being demanded, municipal meetings are done, local meetings, it is there where the participation of the compañeras in the various work areas is promoted.

As a Junta de Buen Gobierno what do you do when you see that there is a necessity or a problem? For example, when it is necessary to make a rule, does that demand the relationship of the various government bodies because the Junta de Buen Gobierno is not going to impose a law. How is it that these tasks are done, because there democracy comes into play, because the insurgent leaders are not going to be there all the time and we understand that nor is the information commission, that is the CCRI, so you, as the Junta de Buen Gobierno, how do you make one thing that is needed go on its way, be it a law, rule, or something to resolve a problem, some matter that is necessary to take forward, a project or whatever it may be. How is it that the Junta de Buen Gobierno, MAREZ, authorities and people interact?

The initiatives, in many cases, take place within the Junta de Buen Gobierno, in other words the needs are seen from the various work areas. If there is a need to make an agreement or a task that has to be collective or as a zone, or some collective work as a municipality that is not going on its way, there has to be an agreement on how the tasks have to function well, what is done is that ordinary assemblies are convened, which we normally do every three months in the zone, where the municipal councils and all the authorities and also the different work areas meet to plan, to analyze, discuss, propose how the tasks are going to function better.

In these assemblies is where the agreements on work are come to among all. Many times there in the assembly everything cannot be decided on because behind it is our people, the bases, so proposals are made and are taken to consultation with the towns and in the next assembly the response then comes how it is, if it is good or the towns proposed something else. That is how everything goes along being defined, be it rules or work plans that have to be done in the zone. Also this relationship takes place when there is, for example, a job or a project in a municipality, there the relationship is with the councils to see how the work is going, the reports on how the work is functioning, if it is functioning or it is not functioning. We have collective work, for example work on a cattle project in the zone, a zone milpa, or also there is that coordination among the councils and the authorities; when a job is necessary we have to check with the councils, and the councils with their authorities, yes there is that relationship.

Also when there are urgent cases as the Junta de Buen Gobierno special assemblies are convened, when it is urgent to do something, an agreement or a work plan, special assemblies are convened. Many happen, we say as members of the Junta de Buen Gobierno, but also supported by the CCRI, which also gives their idea, they orient us, they say: this is missing, this must be done. With these ideas they then give us motivation as if to orient us and do the work; also the leadership that we have in the zone orients us.

Could you tell us about an exercise, an experience of how you do in practice our word which we have said “governing in collective”? Some example of how it is that it is done collectively?

Within the Junta group we are divided into different work areas, some coordinate health, others coordinate education, transit, but the one who takes education is not the one who resolves all the educational questions. The work of government we carry collectively because we resolve the matters among all, for example if a problem of justice comes, well not only the one who coordinates justice matters is going to resolve it, but rather the other work areas intervene to solve that matter.

Also in many cases we meet with the councils, when there is a matter to resolve and it is not within our ability as the Junta de Buen Gobierno, but the municipal councils are there so we are supported with them. We meet with the municipal councils and the Junta de Buen Gobierno to define, be it an issue or a work plan that is going to be done, or a project that is going to be put on its way.

When an issue is not within our abilities also it is seen in the assemblies, in other words the way of governing, the work that is done in autonomous government, it is not that they only leave it to the Junta and that they see what is going to be done; or in the case of the municipality that the councils see it, no, but rather we are all assuming a responsibility. As the Junta de Buen Gobierno, although we are divided up between work areas, but yes we do the work in a collective way.

Some bitter experience within your work as autonomous government?

We have had difficulty in the case of plans that we have made and have not turned out well for us. Although we planned them, discussed them, it does not mean that all the plans that we have made turned out well for us, at times they did not turn out well, and we are being honest in saying that there are things that we did plan and discuss but we did not manage to see the consequences that they are going to bring, we do the work and later we realize that we have failed.

For example, before the whole transit issue was in control, the cars that travel on that route, but later an organization, which is the CIOAC, began to put in other cars and take out of control what we were handling as the Junta, they went outside of the rules that we handled as the Junta de Buen Gobierno and put their cars in like that without permission. What is it that we thought? We analyzed it with the municipal councils and we saw that a roadblock had to be done. We did that roadblock but we did not see the consequences that it was going to bring; after a while they put a different roadblock against us and there they did not let us pass at all.

So we say that what we decided, what we planned to do brought us consequences and we realized that it was because we did not manage to see the consequences that what we decided to do could bring us, that stays with us as an experience that not all the things that we plan go well. When we do not know how to analyze it, when we do not think of what consequences something that we are going to do can bring, if there are things that affect us, well we are being honest that it does not go for us exactly like we intended it to or like we want it to be and something else turns out for us.

We understand that it is necessary to govern collectively and within the Junta de Buen Gobierno team they are distributed in each area, there is the responsibility for the one who is in education, the one who is in health or in agroecology, or whatever it may be, there is collectivism, do the compañeros ask for help or is it necessary to be poking that compañero, compañera, that it is his or her responsibility that he or she must ask for help if needed?

We entered into the work and not all of us have that ability to understand what exactly is our role, many times we go in and we do not know what our role is, so the reasons for which government is handled in collective, for which we do the work in collective, one is because we know that the responsibility belongs to everyone, it is shared; the other is also because we are clear that within the team us members who are assuming the responsibility as autonomous authorities well we do not all have the ability. There are compañeros who have more experience in the work and others who do not, what we do is that we share the experience with each other, the one who has more knowledge of the work shares it with the rest.

In many cases the compañera o compañero is restless because they know their responsibility, so they have to ask: “How do I have to take my work forward? I am going to ask to see if I do it like this or do it in another way.” There are compañeras and compañeros who also feel that responsibility to ask if they do not know, it does not matter if they are in education or transportation, if they do not understand something or do not know how to do it they ask how they have to do it. But there are compañeros for whom this is difficult and we have to tell them: “This must be done, compañero, this must be done in this way, this must be checked.” It is always necessary to be motivating or to tell the compañero what has to be done, it is necessary to be critical upon saying that it is not that we all are now looking after all our responsibility, that we now know what it is and in the face of that I have to prepare myself because I have to take my work forward. We have to be helped so that we realize, orient ourselves, and know what exactly our role is or what it is that we have to carry out.

I think that it is necessary to be there as if watching what it is that is working, what it is that is not working, and to whom it corresponds, what it is that has to be done, orient how the work has to be taken forward. There are compañeros also who know of their responsibility and they also ask for orientation on how to take the work forward. That takes place among members of the Junta but also with other compañeros, as well as those from the CCRI, if there is something that we cannot do or we are lacking, also we ask them for orientation on how we can do it. It is a way like we are doing it, in a collective manner, but there are some who need to be told what has to be done, and compañeros who don’t, well they themselves ask for orientation so the work may go forward.

Is there some idea on how the future is going to be with respect to our autonomy? Have you thought how we are going to do it, because others are going to come and then others, has some idea come on how it would be?

Yes, we have analyzed that, but those of us who are assuming the work in the Junta de Buen Gobierno, those who have been members already have experience. We arrived without any preparation on how the Junta’s work is, many of us were an authority in the town before and many compañeros and compañeras were not. We arrived and had to make a denunciation, we had to fix an issue, when we have never done it, there was no preparation before, so that is why sharing experiences takes place. We ask ourselves what it is that has to be done, an alternative, because this work, as they have told us and we are understanding, is not something for 10 years, this continues, and future generations are going to come, if we do not do anything, just the same those who are going to come are going to have to enter into it without experience and the same thing is going to happen.

What we saw, thanks also to the orientation of our leaders is that trainings have to be done, that is to say, that the compañeros and compañeras who were already members of the Junta de Buen Gobierno now have that experience of how it was when they worked, what problems they saw or what it is that they did that worked well for them, now they are able to share for the rest of the compañeros. A first training has already taken place for all the authorities, where the compañeros and compañeras who were already members of the Junta are sharing their experience. Those authority compañeros go to the towns also to explain there how the functioning is within the Junta de Buen Gobierno, how a denunciation is made, everything that is done there.

Those steps that are taken, are in process, because what it is that is wanted is that afterward the one who is going to come to be a member of the Junta is no longer going to say “I don’t know, I am not trained for that.” That is why it is now being prepared, when they going to arrive there if they must fix an issue, if they must make a denunciation, if they must make a letter, a summons, they are no longer going to say that they do not know how to do it because they are now going to be prepared, going to know what is the role that they have to do like health, like education, like transportation, like justice.

Until now that is the plan that continuity must be given to that preparation and it is for everyone, not only are we going to prepare the authorities, because since we say that we are democratic and it is the people who decide who is going to be the authority, they are not going to choose someone just because they are already trained. When the people choose a compañero or a compañera it should be because that is they saw as convenient, but know that the compañera is prepared, that is why the preparation is going to be for everyone. That is what is being done so that future generations have an idea and experience for when they are an authority, be it as the Junta de Buen Gobierno or as municipal councils, or even as a local authority in their town.

Duties of Autonomous Government

Tony (Member of the Municipal Council. MAREZ Tierra y Libertad)

As part of the duties of autonomous government we have several important duties which are to turn in reports and present proposals to the towns, also to report on any collective work that we have at the zone or municipal level. We have been doing that in our zone through the general assemblies which are done at the zone level through the participation of the authorities of each town. This is how the information goes down to the towns so that the towns are informed or so that whichever proposal that takes places before the assembly goes down to the towns to consult among all the compañeros and compañeras about whichever work is intended to be realized.

Another one of the duties that we have as part of the autonomous government is always keeping an eye on how many compañeros we have at the municipal or zone level, like also how many towns there are at the zone level or as municipalities. We have checked that through the censuses that we have requested from the authorities of each town, we ask them to send us the census to see the number of compañeros and compañeras that there are at the zone level or as municipalities.

Another one of the duties that we also have as autonomous government is to create the work initiatives which are necessary in our towns, but this also must be done respecting the decisions of the towns. Some of the initiatives that we have been able to take forward in our zone are the following: cattle work collective, in the zone milpa also we have promoted organic fertilizer, agroecology training to learn to make organic fertilizer.

Through initiatives, the various levels of what is health and education have also been created. Another one of the initiatives that as part of the autonomous government of our zone we have had was to buy an ultrasound for the hospital, and also in the various municipalities of our zone.

Also we have the construction of the Junta de Buen Gobierno’s offices, with their rooms divided for each area. A fund has been created with the name BANAMAS, which is for the compañeras, it is an economic fund for them to administer to give the loan to do whichever collective work they ask for, those loans have to be paid with the interest owed that the compañeras put.

Those are initiatives which the autonomous government has promoted and which have been achieved through the consultation of the towns, have been realized through the support of the towns and the municipalities, this work is the initiatives which have been approved.

Rosy (Member of the Junta de Buen Gobierno. MAREZ San Pedro de Michoacán)

The duty of the Junta is to balance the four municipalities, for example, in matters of projects which our solidary brothers and sisters give. There is a relationship between authorities in what are the three health areas: midwives, medicinal plants, and healers, well those are the three areas of health that are being promoted by the Junta de Buen Gobierno, together with the municipalities. Also we have the radiotransmission work, in this work we are also interacting with municipalities and zone to check the functioning of the radiotransmitters, check the work of the radio hosts, we have our eye on the devices which they use, we see if they are complete or if they are not complete. The radio hosts are taking training for there to be improvement in the municipalities and in the Junta de Buen Gobierno.

We also have our eye on, as municipalities or towns, if there is food, if there are work materials. In questions of fertilizers or chemical pesticides we are checking that they do not come in to our communities, to the towns, nor into the municipalities, because they affect health.

We also check that drugs do not enter our communities, because as autonomous authorities we see that in the municipalities or towns where they enter there are many problems, so we are seeing as municipalities, as authorities, how to control it because drugs are not allowed in our towns.

We also see how to control alcoholic beverages, which also take place in the communities or municipalities, we are trying to see with the authorities, towns, and municipalities, see about controlling it because it affects the family and health

Questions

In the towns which are mixed, Zapatistas with non-Zapatistas, how is it controlled so drug addiction or alcoholism does not enter?

The way is being sought to deal with it together with the compañeros or towns, it is what is being checked to not allow these things to enter into our communities.

If a member of the organization makes that mistake of consuming alcohol or drugs, what sanction is applied?

A punishment is given, for example, if in a community someone makes that mistake, the community gets together and makes an agreement on what punishment is going to be given to the compañero or compañera who committed that crime; or also they go to the Junta de Buen Gobierno together with the autonomous councils and there is where they see how it can be resolved and how to give the punishment.

You mentioned the duties of the Junta, it was said that one of them is to inform about the Junta de Buen Gobierno’s work in the zone, and another is to report to the towns. The question is who guarantees the reporting that the Junta gives on the administration of the few resources that there are, who guarantees that what they said is in fact true? Or is it that the towns completely trust you, in that you do not exaggerate the accounting or make anything up? Is the reporting true?

Currently there is vigilance in the towns, a team of authorities from the towns has been formed, they call them the filter, they are the ones who do the revision of the Junta de Buen Gobierno’s accounting. But this did not exist from the beginning of the Junta de Buen Gobierno, in the beginning there was no vigilance, much less a filter; those from the Junta made the reports, they sent them to the CCRI, to the military leaders and then to the autonomous councils so they would arrive to the towns.

Really a verification of the accounts to see if they are clear accounts or not, sincerely, compañeros, no town, no authority has sat down to analyze in detail each one of the reports that has been given. That is lacking in our zone, a team that is able to do that work and someone two or three days after the Junta de Buen Gobierno’s report verifying the account well, who checks that there is no misuse of the resources.

That is why now another group of compañeros has been organized, aside from the vigilance in the towns, now there is another groups of compañeros which also is doing the vigilance work. It has not been long since that work began, it began one month ago and the new team is made up of many compañeros, included are the former juntas, former councils, and other persons in charge of the struggle, those of us who are involved in this new vigilance team, we are part of the people, but aside from this is the vigilance in the towns.

In what moment are the reports verified? Do you check that the accounts are clear after the report or before the report? Now with the filter the revision of the accounts is done beforehand, but when the filter did not exist it was done afterwards. In other words the Junta makes their report and then they turn their report into the people well it then goes to the CCRI and then to the municipalities. After the Junta turns its report in copies are sent and well there it remains, an assembly has never been convened specifically to analyze the reports, to check if they are clear, truthful or if something has happened during the time of that report, which checks if it is or is not well informed, as of now an analysis of that has not taken place.

Speaking of how it is that the account which the compañeros from the Junta de Buen Gobierno give are approved, what is done is checking if the accounts square up. What is being done right now is the revision and verification of the accounts together with the compañeros from the CCRI, so together we have to square up the accounts before giving the report in an assembly, there it is checked if the accounts square up or not. If there is a problem of the account not coming out right, of it not agreeing, we have to investigate where that money went or how it was spent, on what it was spent. This is how it is being done now, but it is believed that it is necessary to prepare another group so that it stays afterward and can do that work.

Rights of Autonomous Authorities

Jimmy (Former Member of the Autonomous Council. MAREZ San Pedro de Michoacán)

The compañeros and compañeras who work in the various positions as authorities, do so out of conscience, out of choice, they do not receive a salary. But these compañeros also live in towns where other compañeros live, so there is also communal work to organize the resistance, aside from their work as authorities. According to the agreement of the communities, some of these authority compañeros, have the right to carry out their own work in their free time, so these compañeros are not counted in this collective work and communal work.

These compañeros who are authorities work out of conscience but this does not prevent them from being able to receive support on behalf of their town, provided that the town makes the agreement and that it is out of choice that it is given to them. The compañero who is in this role cannot force their town to support them, the support has to be by the choice of the town.

These compañeros who work in the Junta de Buen Gobierno or in the Municipal Council have the right to two weeks break during the month, so that they may take their break two work groups are made; now that there are 24 compañeros, 12 of them cover a shift for two weeks in the various areas and another 12 have to take a break so that they can continue with the work.

When one of these compañeros or compañeras is in their role in their work they also have the right to receive free medical attention, and in the event of a severity they also have the right to be transported to a hospital nearby so that this compañero or compañera can heal, and they have the right to recover at home, without regard for the recovery time.

If the family of an authority compañero gets sick, the town is the one who has to take care of them, that is like a right that we have given to the compañeros and compañeras who work as authorities. But they also have the right to return to their work to go home and take care of their family until the person recovers, without regard for the time it may take, and so the compañero or compañera can return to their work.

In the zone where we work there are different personalities, different ways of dressing, different colors, different beliefs, different ways of talking, and in work it is also a right for the compañero or compañera to be respected, independently of how they are. The only thing which matters to us is the willingness to work and their ability, so all that about how they are does not matter to us.

The authority compañeros have the right to be heard if they have a proposal, or when applicable, if they make a mistake in the work they also have the right to be heard by the people. We all have the right to hold any position at any level, no matter our color, our belief, or our level of study, we all have that right.

The towns have the right to demand that the authorities fulfill their work and to decide the way the town wants it to function, that is, the town has to say how it wants their authority to function. The towns also have the right to be informed of the spending of economic resources, of the work or whichever other thing it may be, but the town has to be informed on time and receive a clear report.

The authority also has the right to demand that the people fulfill the agreements and rules established, that is the people demand, but also the authority demands that they fulfill according to the rules which are made.

Obligations of Autonomous Government

Doroteo (Former Member of the Junta de Buen Gobierno. MAREZ Libertad de los Pueblos Mayas)

We consider one of the obligations of autonomous government to be attending to whichever person who goes to the office for different matters, that it does not matter if a solution to their problem is given or not given but they have to be heard. Whoever it may be a Zapatista or non-Zapatista, they are attended to, provided that they are not people from the government or sent by the government, if in fact they are people from the government well they are not attended to, but if they are not sent by the government, it does not matter if they are from whichever social organization, they are attended to.

Another one of the obligations of government is to care for all the goods of the people, be it donations, projects, or what is being created through initiatives of the towns and municipalities, it is the obligation of the government to maintain them and take care of them, ensure that they are in good conditions for the service of the towns.

We are working always making sure that in what we do we are fulfilling the seven principles of lead by obeying:

Serve and not be served. Represent and not replace. Build and not destroy. Obey and not command. Propose and not impose. Convince and not conquer. Lower and not raise.

We think that we have to do it like this, that it is like an obligation to not make the same mistakes that the evil government institutions make and to not carry their same ways, so what is going to rule us is the seven principles.

Caracol II: Resistance and Rebellion For Humanity

Oventik

Introduction

Esaú (Former Member of the Junta de Buen Gobierno. MAREZ San Juan de la Libertad)

In Zona Altos de Chiapas since the year 1995 autonomous municipalities were formed, before the declaration two autonomous municipalities had already been formed: San Andrés Sakamchen de los Pobres, which was first formed in 1995 and the other municipality was San Juan de la Libertad. Those two municipalities began to work before the rest.

In this zone the people themselves began to organize since the war declaration in 1994, first two autonomous municipalities were formed, this was before the formation of the juntas de buen gobierno. As we well know, it is not good for us to be governed by the evil government or by the official governments, and in agreement the people went developing and organizing themselves, the other Zapatista autonomous rebel municipalities began to be formed. In this zone there are seven autonomous municipalities which were formed on the following dates:

On December 25th, 2002 the autonomous municipality Magdalena de la Paz was formed.

In December 2002 the autonomous municipality Santa Catarina was formed.

On May 28th, 2003 the autonomous municipality 16 de Febrero was formed.

On July 20th, 2003 the autonomous municipality San Juan Apóstol Cancuc was formed.

Before the municipalities San Andrés Sakamchen de los Pobres and San Juan de la Libertad had been formed. Like this we were organized in this zone. These autonomous municipalities worked two or three years like this until in the year 2003, on August 8th and 9th, the juntas de buen gobierno were formed. When the juntas de buen gobierno were formed just 14 compañeros participated in the first team, in that time there were no compañeras participating. Maybe the participation of the compañeras was not demanded, in the beginning only 14 compañeros participated, there were no compañeras, but currently the team of the Junta de Buen Gobierno is made up of 28 compañeros and compañeras, in other words there are 14 compañeros and 14 compañeras.

Now the compañeras are participating, their participation has taken place in accordance with we were organizing and advancing our work, our areas, because the women, together with the local and municipal authorities, began to promote the compañeras understanding that they have rights and that they can participate in the work. According the agreement of this zone two compañeras and two compañeros from each municipality have to be named so that they are integrated into the Junta from each municipality, the members for the Junta come from the members of the Autonomous Councils of each municipality. Upon the autonomous councils being named the town chooses who is going to fulfill that work in the office of the Junta de Buen Gobierno; the role of the Junta members last three years.

When they complete the three years of work in the Junta de Buen Gobierno not all the members of the team change. In this zone from the beginning we said that if the 14 members change all at once, or the 28 that exist now, the new members are not going to have knowledge or not going to know how to do their jobs when they come as new people. The members of the Junta in this zone change in different moments, for example, this year the municipality San Juan de la Libertad and San Andrés Sakamchen de los Pobres are going to change, the members of those two municipalities change and new ones come in.

It means that when there is a change of members in the Junta de Buen Gobierno, eight compañeros leave, four compañeras and four compañeros, the rest of the members of that team stay because they already more or less got experience, they already know how to handle all the matters, they know how to work, that is why they stay together with the new members. The members who stay begin to teach the new ones, they have to tell them how they are going to do their jobs, how to carry out their tasks in each area; the compañeros who stay have the obligation to teach, to support the compañero or compañera who is integrated as a new one. Like this we are organized in this zone and each year there are changes in the members of the Junta, each year the members change from different municipalities.

The compañeros and compañeras who are working as part of this Junta de Buen gobierno do not receive any support, the work that they do is free, only the money for their fare comes from what the Junta has, from what the solidary compañeros and compañeras from other countries contribute. In terms of food, if we have to spend a whole week outside of our house each compañero counts up how many tortillas they eat in one day, if a compañero eats 10 tortillas a day, or twenty, or thirty, if they eat three times, they have to add up how many tortillas to bring so that it lasts them their shift. The beans, rice, salt, come from the Junta’s resources but the tortillas as of now we continue bringing from our houses, we bring the necessities so that it lasts us the time that our shift is.

All the members of the Junta have to cover one-week work shifts. We have three work shifts and each shift has it coordinator, when there is a problem the group goes in, the members of the group meet to see how to resolve it; currently there are nine compañeros in each shift and they have to meet when there is a problem and look at how to resolve that matter.

Questions

Do those who finish their position in the Junta return to have another position or do they stay in their town?

That depends on the community where they live. If a former member comes from a large community, it has more support bases, not so fast are they going to be responsible for another position well there are other compañeros, the community’s agreement is that they have to take shifts, this period already passed well another compañero goes, like this we go taking shifts in the towns.

You talked to us about the 7 municipalities formed and talked to us about others which are not formed, how is that?

In our zone there are seven autonomous municipalities, but there are other regions in which they have still not named autonomous municipalities but there are compañeros. 24 municipalities are all that this zone encompasses, but not all are autonomous. Why are we mentioning this? Well because there are compañeros who live in those municipalities, for example Bochil and Huitiupan, are official municipalities but in those two there are compañeros, that is why we have mentioned them like this.

You say that those compañeros do not participate in the seven municipalities, they are not part of the seven currently-formed municipalities? The compañeros who do not belong to any of the 7 autonomous municipalities participate in their regions, but not in the autonomous municipality, in other words they are our people, they are our compañeros it’s just that they do not have their autonomous municipalities formed.

When it is the change of government and the two municipalities leave, how many municipalities stay to teach the work to the next government? The compañeros and compañeras from the five municipalities stay to teach the nine members, but the two municipalities who leave send their new members.

Government of Three Levels

Rosalinda (Former Member of the Junta de Buen Gobierno. MAREZ San Juan Apóstol Cancuc)

In our zone we have three levels of autonomous authorities:

On the first level are the agents and autonomous commissioners which are in each Zapatista community, they are the direct authorities of the community.

On the second level are the autonomous authorities of the municipality, they are the authorities which control and watch over the communities which make up their autonomous municipality.

On the third level is the Junta de Buen Gobierno, which is responsible for the other government bodies and which governs the whole zone, but the people are the maximum authority.

In Zona de los Altos de Chiapas we have the following work areas:

In our zone we have our Zapatista Autonomous Education System (SEAZ). We have a central clinic, 11 micro clinics, 40 health houses which have their respective general coordination made up of 9 elements. We have health promoters, they had trained more but some abandoned their jobs and 30% were left doing the work. We have our own Zapatista National Liberation Autonomous Rebel Education System, Zona Altos de Chiapas (SERAZ-LN-ZACH), with its respective general coordination made up of 14 elements, 496 promoters, 157 autonomous primary schools and a secondary school (ESRAZ), 4,886 students in the whole zone. We have our autonomous agroecology area with its respective general coordination made up of 6 people, there are 278 promoters in the 8 training centers which there are in the zone, although there are compañeros who do not follow through. We have our Community Radios (RC) and their respective general coordination made up of 10 people and 52 radio hosts from the three radio stations in our zone. There is the artisanal cooperative “Women for Dignity,” with its respective management and its local representatives and the artisanal collective “Women of the Resistance,” with its coordinators. We have the cooperative society Yaxil Xojobal, with its respective board of directors made up of 9 people and its local representatives. There was the coffee cooperative Mut Vitz, but it disappeared due to misadministration problems and board corruption.

This is the way in which our zone organizes the work areas and the autonomous governments, which are a form of responding to and defending ourselves against the evil government’s attacks. With these work areas, we see that we have certain difficulties upon governing our towns and controlling the various work areas, it is not because we do not want to do the work well but because of lack of preparation and experience. We know perfectly well that we who make up the Junta de Buen Gobierno, the autonomous authorities, are simple support bases, we lack many things from learning and understanding, but it is not that the work cannot be done, although it is difficult to believe that it can be done, but it is difficult to do it.

Questions

You said that there were more compañeros in the health area and now it is only at 30%, how were those compañeros leaving? Did they leave the organization or did they abandon the work?

Some abandoned their jobs, others left the organization, so now nothing can be done to them, now nothing can be said to the compañero who abandoned the work.

With regard to the naming of authorities, being of the councils or of the Junta de Buen Gobierno, what is the naming form?

The authorities begin to be named from the communities and when they come chosen from the communities they pass to the municipality. In the municipality the compañeros who make up the municipality gather together, men and women, and there is where they name their authorities.

The selection of the authorities begins in the town, in the community, each town gives its candidates to choose as their authorities, a list of all the candidates is gathered and presented in the municipality. The municipality convenes a general assembly, among men and women, to present those candidates in the municipal seat, there although there are many candidates the people choose who works best for them to be their authority. Once chosen they then form part of the positions that each one is responsible for.

Upon finishing this selection in each municipality the list of the autonomous council is made, from this team they choose two compañeras and two compañeros who they send to the Junta de Buen Gobierno to cover the other work level, the level of the Junta de Buen Gobierno. The other members of the team stay in the municipality to cover the shifts during their period; it is handled like that in this zone.

If a municipality has, for example, 30 communities, do the 30 communities go to the assembly or how is it done?

That’s how it is, but not 100% of the town arrives, sometimes 70% or 80% come, but the municipality has a census, if it is the majority the selection proceeds. The municipality San Juan de la Libertad chooses its authorities like this, but it is not like this in all the municipalities, each municipality has its plan for how to choose its authorities. How they choose is not the same, in San Andrés Sakamchen de los Pobres they have another way for how to choose, also in San Juan Apóstol Cancuc they have another way. In San Andrés Sakamchen de los Pobres they choose their authorities through assemblies, because in San Andrés they have two authorities, some traditional and others which they call “constitutional.”

Those constitutional authorities are the official authorities?

No, we within the organization we still call them that, but they are not official, we only named them this. The authorities which we call “constitutional,” are chosen by a general assembly, here the Council is chosen, representative, councilperson, and two judges, are chosen through a general assembly of all the support bases. These five authorities meet with the agents also, like this it is chosen. That is chosen in each town, or rather the five authorities meet with the other agents of each town, they then take instruction from one person in each town so that he or she goes to cover a position, but still it is not known what position that person is going to have, later in the assembly, among all the authorities there he or she comes to have a position, be it first councilperson, second councilperson, or third councilperson, or be it a substitute. San Andrés is a bit like this.

Do those authorities also work in collective or does each one do their own thing?

The compañeros who have positions as Councilmembers and first councilperson, do the work in collective, no one says “I am the council, I am going to command.” With the officials from the evil government it is like this but in our organization no, our authorities work in collective, even if someone is a substitute but they have participation also.

Councils and constitutional authorities were spoken about, the question is why they are called constitutional. It is that constitutional I understand that they are from the evil government.

Before when the organization was not here the official municipalities were formed like this, but then later we in the organization then named our own authority, but we still have not modified that name, the same name continues to be used but they are not official.

Regarding the traditional authorities what is their role and how do they interact with the authorities that you call constitutional?

The constitutional authorities are called this, but the municipal council always convenes the selection, the municipal agents from the 31 communities within convene it, so the municipal agents, that is the municipal council always convenes a special meeting so that the support bases, the compañeros and compañeras, participate in the selection of the new members of the council. When they have been named in each community, or in each place, they choose a person to come to the municipality and can choose which is the person who can be a councilmember, then as they take the order of the day, in the normal meeting, then that person arrives at the municipal seat.

Before it was like this, as the compañeros say, there is a council, there is a representative, there is a first councilperson, there are councilmembers, these were the so-called “constitutional authorities.” There are also traditional authorities who are in charge of culture, who are in charge of choosing the alférez so that he or she takes charge of doing the traditional festival, that is what they call this, traditional authorities. But recently the idea changed, it changed this year, the compañeros and compañeras from each community chose their authorities in the whole municipality, so it is now chosen normally in the municipal seat.

It always happened like this, but now when the compañeros from each community choose a person they take that person to the municipality so that the selected individuals are presented, they pass to the front, but at the time when they are on the stage it is chosen who is going to remain as the council and who is going to remain as the members of the authorities which we call the municipal representative, the first councilperson; those authorities are working together, not divided. For the position of municipal judge there are two municipal judges, there is a substitute and there is the holder of the position, they are in charge of resolving the problems which there are in each community, what cannot be resolved in the community is passed to the municipality.

So this is how the authorities are formed then, but recently that idea changed, that they choose the whole municipality, they look for a councilmember who can stay, who can follow-through, as they say, there still are problems in the municipal seat of San Andrés but they already happened, it does not mean that the things keep occurring, the mistakes happen and what occurs in each municipality.

If there is a traditional people’s festival, is there a relationship, an agreement between the traditional and the constitutional authorities to do that festival?

The council with its respective members is organized to see how the work should be done and the traditional authorities, as we call them, are in charge of looking for someone to make the traditional festival; there are mayors, governor, and councilpersons, they are in charge of looking for the people, for who wants to become alférez. They are traditional festivals, that is what the traditional authorities are in charge of, that is what they know, because the other authority that we call constitutional, the council and the councilpersons, as they do not know what the role is for the traditional festival, that is why there are traditional authorities, because there is a manner of speaking, a manner of thinking, a manner of praying and they know how it is. The councils do not know, nor do I know it, but the mayors do know it, that is the position then, because they have the way how to express, how to speak.

Explanation of How the Traditional and Autonomous Authorities are Chosen in Zona Altos

In our autonomy there are different ways how it is being done, I am going to give an example: in the jungle, in the frontier and the tzeltal jungle, for years now they were going to be native municipalities, which means that because of their belief they wanted to separate with their structure from how the catholic religion is, which has its missionary, has its diocese. The compas from the frontier and the tzeltal jungle wanted to do that, they wanted to separate as rebels, as autonomous rebel municipalities, so that was going to get us into a problem because we were going to take from them how the diocese works, so it was said to the compas:

“No, we are not going to organize in terms of religion. We are not going to be able because there are Catholics, there are Presbyterians, there are charismatic Catholics, there are Jehovah’s Witnesses, I don’t know how many there are.”

Well, the compas in this case, are not promoting that idea pushing and shoving. In this zone there are authorities which are called constitutional, it sounds as if they were from the evil government but no, they are the compañeros, only they still carry the name. To say, we as Zapatistas, do we struggle for socialism or why? We say: we do not know why they say socialism, we want land, health, housing, education, freedom, peace, justice, democracy, we do not know if it is called socialism or if it is called paradise. The name does not matter to us, what matters to us is that there are the 13 demands.

In this process of changing the name right now there are the compas from this zone, because it has had problems, for example: in the municipal seat of San Andrés is the official government, that is the municipal president of the evil government’s system and there also is the rebel government, just that the house is divided in two, over there is the constitutional government and here is the rebel government.

“Why do the Zapatistas come to enjoy the party here if they do not contribute?” say the municipal presidents of the official government.

“No, well yes we do have to pitch-in,” say the compas.

So when that happens the Autonomous Municipal Council has to contribute, but they spend a ton just on the party, on what is fun, there is a fortune wheel and those things, because that’s how the official authorities do the party, and the municipal council also spends there.

Another problem in San Andrés was because the park is shared between the two, the autonomous rebel municipality and the official municipal president of the government system. So those from the official government want to fix the park to make it nice and they force the compas to contribute because they are also there, the support bases go for walks in the park, and yes, they spent millions of pesos there, only because the park looks pretty.

Then came another problem, it turns out that the party is very nice and that the park is very nice, but there are Priistas, Panistas, Perredistas who to solve their problems go to the compañeros of the autonomous council. With the compañeros from the autonomous rebel municipality there go the Priistas, the Panistas, the Perredistas, and on them what little the compas have as Zapatistas is being spent. A day came in which the compañeros said:

“We no longer have anything, what should we do?”

“Where did you spend what there is,” the question arose.

“Well it’s that many Priista, Panista, Perredista brethren came and we spent it there.”

It turns out that the Zapatista compas now have a problem and there is no longer a way to move the municipal council, so it was said that we are going to separate without losing what we call attending to people, it does not matter if they are from the PRI or from the PAN. So it was said to the compas that they have to give priority to the compañeros, they have to give the most importance to the compañeros and tell the brethren who are pro-government.

“Go to your government.”

“But it is that they don’t resolve it for me.”

“What is your government for? So see that the system in which you are does not work.”

That is the process in which San Andrés is, it is not as easy as giving a military order in the form of the compas’ beliefs, so they are going to have to understand, reason how they are going to unify without losing, even if they do not know what it is going to be called. Right now there is a traditional and the other is constitutional, so how they are going to unite and what they are going to call it I do not know. That is the matter, there are things which are going to be changing.

I am going to give you another example of things which are changing, it is about what they call the councilperson, who if they are the first, if they are the substitute, before they did it like that and now it is changing, those were part of the traditional authority. For example if someone is councilperson and they now must leave, they had to keep an eye on who is going to stay in their place and have to go find him at home. As it is a traditional authority he already knows that person, so if he sees the compa who wants him to take the place and is going to look for him at home, then the compa says:

“Here comes that guy, he is going to name me,” so he doesn’t leave his house.

That compa does not want the councilperson to come because he is going to say, “you have to be my substitute.”

In order for that not to happen the councilperson sends a young person and sends him to go to the house of the one who he wants to be his substitute, the young person is the one who goes and talks, so they do let him into the house. But the councilperson goes there behind, the bait went which sent the young person for him to go in and then allow him to come in and now the councilperson does go. As the compa is a Zapatista and the councilperson is a Zapatista he tells him:

“Compañero, I have seen that now it is your turn,” no matter now, the compa has to accept because he was already allowed to speak.

That is the way in which the traditional authorities name their substitute, now they have already changed it, because it is being understood what democracy is. That is the traditional way, there are traditional things which are good, which we must never lose and there are traditional things which aren’t, which we have to understand they are of no use to us. It is like in what we are as indigenous people, there still is that which we believe, the spirit animal, for example, there are compañeros who believe it and compañeros who say that their spirit animal is a tiger, is a cat, is a lizard, they still believe it but we go along understanding that it is like a story.

That is what is happening to the compas in Los Altos, because here the compas are more closed in what is culture, tradition. Here they note that it is difficult for the compas to explain, clarify, they have an idea, in their language they are going to tell it to you clearly but then when they have to express it in Spanish it becomes difficult for them. That’s how it is but it is important for it to be clarified so that we can go understanding together how each zone is doing it and what it is that we understand to be the best way how to take our compañeros and compañeras into account in the towns.

Gonzalo (Former Judge)

In San Andrés, here in Zona Altos, when the municipality was formed as if in the beginning the structure for how the official governments are was copied, there it was confused but currently it is already changing, no longer is that word “constitutional” going to be mentioned, rather the Autonomous Council will be talked about.

There is the council, there is the representative, there is the councilperson, there are judges, the municipal authorities are made up like this because it is the idea that we have from earlier, from the constitutional governments. Our autonomous municipal authorities were made up of those various positions, but it is necessary to understand that each one with their role was not separated, but rather they worked and governed in collective, they did the work together although each one had their role.

There also are traditional authorities but they are not the ones who celebrate the festival, they simply have the task of naming other compañeros for a traditional position, it is the traditional authority’s role to name a compa who is in charge of making the festival, that is the traditional authorities’ role. But among all they work in collective when there are problems, when there are plans they always do it together, it is what that municipality of San Andrés has been doing.

That is the difference of what there is in San Andrés, another difference is that there are two authorities right in the municipal seat of San Andrés, the autonomous authorities continue governing in the same palace, the same town hall, since it was taken in 1995. It is the only municipality here in los Altos that continues governing there, in other municipalities they tried to take the town halls or make a place for the autonomous authority in the seats but they were removed, only San Andrés continues resisting like this, it continues governing right in the municipal seat.

There was that problem which was mentioned about the park. The official authorities, since they are across the street, began to pressure the autonomous government about what is going to be done with the park, there was a great problem, it was full of stands, full of garbage. There was a former-council compa who made a mistake, that is he messed up, he made the decision that the park can be done without taking the people into account, without seeing what is the first necessity, so he began to spend money, also he managed to seek help from the council. Of course it took some time of sheer fighting of the official government with the autonomous government, but an agreement was come to that the park will be done. But the problem was that the seven principles had not been understood, the council itself made the decision that the park can be done, when the organization indicated to us that it was not useful, that it is not the first necessity of our people, a ton of money had been spent on that damn park, they did it like that, luxurious.

The mistake that the council made was indicated and that council was sent off, they had to leave their work, they did wrong because they did not take into account what was the first necessity of our people. As of now their sanction has not been lifted, two councils more have passed and the council that made that mistake continues to suffer since they cannot receive solidary assistance if they get a project, until now, more than four years later, it continues to be pending when their sanction is going to lifted.

It is the problem that happened there in San Andrés, we tell you this so that you may have the experience that you need to go thinking what is the first necessity. Yes the park is there, but it cannot be eaten, while here in los altos there is nowhere to get their corn, people are dying of hunger but the luxurious park is there, that is very bad. Let’s talk straight so that the same thing does not happen in other municipalities, in other caracoles.

There are other problems which have happened there, for example one council which accepted a bit of aid, but from the same government which got involved there, that is how confidence is given with a priest, who says “yes we are with you, well take this donation, this aid,” but it comes from the government. When that was heard the council was sent off again, they had to be removed from their work, it is bad, it fell into the evil government’s handouts. It is a problem which happened over there in San Andrés.

Here in Los Altos since they are very other, but we are now taking steps. For example, in the selections steps are being taken, they are no longer named like before it was done that each community proposed their candidate, but rather now that is done in an assembly everyone together. Before only the first five members of the municipal authorities were named: council, representative, first councilperson, and five judges; that’s how it was in San Andrés, but now no longer because it has to go along being understood what democracy is, now the towns themselves propose in an assembly who is going to stay as the council, as the authorities.

In other municipalities of our zone from the beginning they named their authorities in an assembly, they bring their proposals from each community but it is not said there what position each compañero is going to have until it is said in the assembly. That is why we have analyzed here in Los Altos that there are things which are bad, we are cheating national and international civil society, they come to us to ask here in the Junta how we were chosen and it is answered that we were chosen democratically in an assembly, but not in all the municipalities was it like this, that is why now there are things which are changing.

We said that there are things which are bad, which must be changed. Now we are going to change more, we are taking steps. Yes we have made mistakes, mistakes have been made since the beginning, but we are realizing which are the steps that can be taken. That is what there is about San Andrés but in other municipalities they are now taking the idea of how it is done, for elections, for the naming of authorities.

Relationship with Other Organizations

Patricia (Former Member of the Junta de Buen Gobierno. MAREZ Magdalena de la Paz)

The Junta de Buen Gobierno of Zona Altos de Chiapas has a solidary relationship with other national and international organizations who come to visit us and share their ways and life experiences in their countries and share moral support with us, also there are groups and organizations which leave a small economic donation.

There are solidarity organizations which support us from their countries, with encampments, protests, roadblocks, etcetera. Also there is another kind of relationship which takes place between the municipal authorities and those who visit us, because there are people who come to the Junta and request authorization to visit an autonomous municipality.

There are other people who visit us who do not belong to any organization, this kind of relationship with them we see that it is very important for our Zapatista struggle, because it is a force given to our organization when they tell us that they make the struggle theirs and also that we are an example for them to begin to organize in their countries or in other places in our country.

This way of relating with other people and organizations is something which has allowed us to advance in our struggle, the evil government has not been able to exterminate us because it knows well that our struggle extends to other places and that there are organizations which sympathize with us.

Here in Caracol II de Oventic visitors come from other countries and also countrymen and countrywomen, many only arrive to visit the caracol center, to see it, but a certain number, some people who arrive leave a small donation, they want to support the people. That small donation is left in the Junta, they do not leave much but for each donation a receipt and copies are made, the receipt is sent to the vigilance commission, a copy is sent to the CCRI compañeros, the original stays with the Junta de Buen Gobierno and another is going to be taken by the person who made the donation.

The donations are gathered and the Junta administers those small donations. Those donations are used for whatever expense there is in the caracol center, like this the donations are spent, but they are small donations, they do not leave much, according to the quantity that they want to leave, forty, fifty pesos, one- hundred pesos. But when it is spent not only the Junta knows but rather each month the Junta makes its reports, all 28 of us members meet to make a report, there some compañeros from the CCRI are incorporated so that together we can see how the resources that there are in the Junta in the caracol center were spent, or how the Junta de Buen Gobierno administered it.

Territoriality

Alfredo (Former Member of the Junta de Buen Gobierno. MAREZ San Pedro Polhó)

As the autonomous government of Zona Altos de Chiapas we have in our knowledge that our support bases extend to 24 municipalities, among them there are 7 autonomous municipalities and 17 official municipalities. We are governing hundreds of communities, below we will mention the following autonomous municipalities:

The autonomous municipality San Andrés Sakamchen de los Pobres is made up of N communities, with 45 municipal agents and a communal goods commission with its 12 members.

The autonomous municipality San Juan de la Libertad is made up of N communities, 15 municipal agents, and 6 autonomous commissioners.

The autonomous municipality San Pedro Polhó is made up of N communities, 38 municipal agents, and a communal goods commission with its 12 members.

The autonomous municipality Santa Catarina is made up of N communities, 25 municipal agents, in this municipality they do not have a commission.

The autonomous municipality Magdalena de la Paz is made up of N communities, 10 municipal agents, 2 communal goods commissions with 8 members, and an ejidal commission with its 6 members.

The autonomous municipality 16 de Febrero is made up of N ejidos, 37 municipal agents, and 9 ejidal commissions.

The autonomous municipality San Juan Apóstol Cancuc is made up of N communities, 17 municipal agents, and a communal goods commission with its 6 members.

Between the seven autonomous municipalities we have N communities, 189 autonomous agents, and 41 commissioners.

Also there are the municipalities which do not belong to any autonomous municipality like Huitiupán, Jitotol, Chaumula, Zinacantán, Tenejapa, Sitalá, Chilón, San Cristóbal, Teopisco, Las Rosas, Carranza, Simol, Tuxlta Guitérrez, Amatenango del Valle, Mitontic, Suchiapa, Socoltenago, Bochil, Villa de Acala Chalchihuitán, Cintalpa, and Duraznal.

In the majority of these mentioned official municipalities there are no autonomous authorities and only some have their autonomous agents, like Chalchihuitán, Zinacantán, San Cristóbal, and Sitalá.

In these official municipalities there are also communities where we have Zapatista compañeros and compañeras. We are clear that there are communities with very few Zapatista support bases or even with only one family, but however it may be there is Zapatista presence, so all those municipalities are part of our territory and it is under our responsibility to attend to all the Zapatista communities which belong to those municipalities mentioned.

Questions

In the town authorities, agents and commissioners, are there men and women or are they only male compañeros?

In this zone there are now compañeras also, they are just beginning because on their own the compañeras are not used to having a position, but yes we are beginning there.

If there is a problem in your towns those compañeros who do not belong to an autonomous municipality where do they fix their problems?

Those compañeros of ours who are in the official municipalities are a concern for us, although in those places where they are the support bases are not a majority, those compas stay strong in the struggle. The reason for them not having autonomous municipalities is that it has not come to be seen if it would work well to form municipalities there because the support bases are not a majority in those places, that is one of the reasons and the other is that they are very far-away places. But also it depends on how those from the political parties act in those places because they are provoking problems more and more and many things are happening in those regions.

Some compañeros who are living in the official municipalities already have their agent, their judge, their commission, but they are not a part of an autonomous municipality, they do not have a Council, they are part of a region but not of an autonomous municipality. What is done when they run into a problem is that it is seen if the problem can be resolved there with their agent, with their commission, they try to resolve it there in their community, but if they find no exit they have to go directly to the Junta de Buen Gobierno to ask for an idea on what they can do with the problems that are happening there.

But there are times, I think that all of us have begun like that, where those compañeros have been supported more through the regional persons in-charge, clearly they are not authorities but while they do not have their council, their authority, they can take charge of resolving with the support of the regionals, well they ask them for their opinion, they ask for the support of the persons in-charge. The compañeros who have not formed their autonomous municipalities, they do not collaborate in the autonomous municipalities?

They do not collaborate in the autonomous municipalities because they have their meetings, collaboration, they have commissions there, they have to collaborate in their region.

That means that the compañeros participate in the official municipality?

They no longer participate in the official municipalities, they participate in their regions.

Duties of Autonomous Governments

Víctor (Former Member of the Junta de Buen Gobierno. 