Chhattisgarh Chief Minister, Bhupesh Baghel Chhattisgarh Chief Minister, Bhupesh Baghel

A day after being sworn in as Chhattisgarh Chief Minister, Bhupesh Baghel speaks to Dipankar Ghose on the modalities of the loan waiver he signed on his first day in office, Naxalism, and what the Congress intends to do to overturn a 10-1 deficit in the state in the Lok Sabha elections. Excerpts:

Your first decision was to waive farm loans from cooperative and rural banks. What about loans taken from other commercial banks?

The cooperative banks and rural banks, those who had taken agricultural short-term loans — we have waived these in a straightforward manner. We will have to study loans taken from commercial banks. Many farmers will have taken crop loans. There will be other loans as well, although those too are linked to agriculture. We will have to study those, and it will take a little time. I have told the chief secretary to get information on this from all districts and banks. Right now, we have waived loans worth Rs 6,100 crore. That figure can go up.

Have you thought of a ceiling for this waiver, especially in commercial banks where the loans can be large?

In cooperative banks, we have not divided it into any category. Because there is a limit on the loan per acre that a person can get. But in commercial banks, the limits are very high for loans. Right now, there is no information… Only after we get that information, can we take any decision.

A farmer doesn’t always take loans from a bank. He may take a loan from a local moneylender, and get caught in a debt trap.

The way forward is that loans have been waived right now. Those who take loans privately, there is very little paper work. On that subject, we had made no declarations. Farmers who have taken loans from banks, it was that loan waiver which had been talked about. Those who get trapped by moneylenders, I think that we need to make farmers prosperous and stable. We have a motto: Chhattisgarh ke chaar chinhaari: narwa, gurwa, gharwa, baari, yeh bachaana hai (We need to protect Chhattisgarh’s four identities: rivulets, livestock, manure and farming). This is not just a slogan. In this is the economic and social structure of Chhattisgarh, its life… We have to work towards this and we will do it. If we do this, Chhattisgarh’s economy will be sound, people will get work, and farmers will become prosperous.

Rahul Gandhi with new Chhattisgarh CM Bhupesh Baghel (left) and ministers T S Singhdeo, Tamradhwaj Sahu. (PTI) Rahul Gandhi with new Chhattisgarh CM Bhupesh Baghel (left) and ministers T S Singhdeo, Tamradhwaj Sahu. (PTI)

There was a perception that the Congress leadership in the state wasn’t completely united. How do you plan to take everyone along?

We have been working together for a long time. I worked as PCC chief for five years and there were no problems anywhere. Yes, perhaps a little bit in ticket distribution… There is push and pull there, but the elections are over now. There are no disagreements. Now we have to run the government… We will run the government with collective leadership.

Naxalism is a problem in the state. You have said you want to speak for people caught in the conflict.

The Naxal issue is not just a law and order problem… It is a social, political and economic problem as well. The rights people should have got have been snatched away from them. That is why they entered (Naxalism) and why it spread. We have to make the people right-rich. We have to talk to them. Those who are affected live in the jungles, whether they are Adivasis or non-Adivasis. They are the victims. What do they think? Nobody talks about that. We talk about Maoists, we talk to police forces. But nobody asks about the real victim. Not the government, political parties or journalists. We have to reach them, ask them what they think, and what are the solutions. They will give the best solution. Then, we can hold a dialogue with whosoever required, and solve the problem.

You said media is the fourth pillar of democracy. Both journalists and human rights activists have alleged discrimination in the state, fake cases etc. Will you talk to activists as well?

In the subjects that they talk about, what are the points they are raising, what is the truth, understand them, solve the problem… It is not as if they are our enemies. They are not opponents. They want betterment of people. We also want betterment of people. So what is the problem in talking to them? It is not necessary, and not possible, to agree on each subject. But if their motive is to help people, my motive is also to help people, then where is the problem?

You have said you will stop “outsourcing of jobs”.

Where there are big posts and high qualifications, we need those kind of people as well. Those who can run the administration. But there are education workers, patwaris, nurses. We have our youth for these. What is the need to outsource these? It is their right and they should get it. If there is any need to amend the law for this, then we will do it.

How do you see the transition from Opposition leader to Chief Minister?

The fire in you at that time was because you were fighting for the rights of people. It was used to strengthen the organisation of the Congress. Through that fight for the people, whether women, farmers, youth, Adivasis, labourers, that fire was in that direction. Now this fire is towards development. The issues that we were fighting for, those solutions we now have to implement. Gear change ho gaya (The gear has changed).

The Lok Sabha elections will be held in a few months. The Congress holds one of 11 seats from the state.

The first thing that we promised to the biggest section of people, that is farmers, is loan waiver. When we say farmers, they are Scheduled Castes, Scheduled Tribes, OBCs and upper class as well. There is no section in Chhattisgarh where there is no farmer. The promise we made to them, we fulfilled yesterday itself. Today, I have signed the order. We have gained the people’s faith. Because it (2019) is a national election, there will be national issues as well. So Narendra Modi will have to talk about Rafale and what he has done for five years.

The BJP is raising the Ram Mandir issue.

Chhattisgarh has rejected it. BJP members themselves reduced the stature of Narendra Modi. Earlier, there used to a huge place for him in their posters, that has now become smaller. Here, there was Raman Singh… Yogi Adityanath roamed around a great deal. Not just in Chhattisgarh but in Madhya Pradesh and Rajasthan. He too was rejected. After that, they have no issues. Jab jab chunaav aata hai, unhe Ram ki yaad aati hai. Ram ke naam pe sarkaar bana lete hai, Ram ki mandir nahi bana paate (They remember Ram during poll time. They make a government in the name of Ram, but are not able to make Ram Mandir).

The state has seen conflict because of mining, with tribal land being taken away, laws not being followed.

Laws have been created for all of this. Everybody is needed for the development of the nation. You have to save the environment and run mines as well. If someone’s land is taken, there is the Land Acquisition Act. But those laws are not followed. If you give appropriate compensation, then why will there be protests. Apply the rehabilitation policy… If we rehabilitate them properly, there will be no protest.

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