CharlieContent



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Full MemberActivity: 210Merit: 100 MemoryDealers.com founder Roger Ver abuses admin access at Blockchain.info December 19, 2012, 02:26:57 PM

Last edit: December 19, 2012, 08:31:42 PM by CharlieContent #1



See this thread for more details:



https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=131574.0 Roger Ver has access to the Blockchain.info database and is prepared to abuse it in order to take revenge over a customer service dispute in one of his other businesses.See this thread for more details:

Even if you use Bitcoin through Tor, the way transactions are handled by the network makes anonymity difficult to achieve. Do not expect your transactions to be anonymous unless you really know what you're doing. Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertised sites are not endorsed by the BitcoinForum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.

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Full MemberActivity: 210Merit: 100 Re: WARNING - Blockchain.info is NOT SAFE December 19, 2012, 02:39:08 PM #4 Quote from: MemoryDealers on December 19, 2012, 02:36:28 PM Reserved if needed.

(I didn't leak or abuse any information at all from Blockchain, please read the other thread.)



You didn't leak any of it, but you have access to a TON of information about account holders and their accounts, and you were prepared to leverage this information to resolve a customer service dispute in a completely unrelated business. I call that abusing it. You didn't leak any of it, but you have access to a TON of information about account holders and their accounts, and you were prepared to leverage this information to resolve a customer service dispute in a completely unrelated business. I call that abusing it.

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Hero MemberActivity: 518Merit: 500 Re: WARNING - Blockchain.info is NOT SAFE December 19, 2012, 02:58:49 PM #12 So, if I have this right. A scammer gives blockchain.info his bitcoins for safe keeping, scams the guy who runs it, and then complains that blockchain.info might maybe want their BTC back even though that can't happen anyway?



GTFO!



I think I'm going to go buy something off bitcoinstore.com just to counteract your stupidity. Offering Video/Audio Editing Services since 2011 - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=77932.0

CharlieContent



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Full MemberActivity: 210Merit: 100 Re: WARNING - Blockchain.info is NOT SAFE December 19, 2012, 03:05:43 PM #15 Quote from: mccorvic on December 19, 2012, 02:58:49 PM So, if I have this right. A scammer gives blockchain.info his bitcoins for safe keeping, scams the guy who runs it, and then complains that blockchain.info might maybe want their BTC back even though that can't happen anyway?



GTFO!



I think I'm going to go buy something off bitcoinstore.com just to counteract your stupidity.



You have it completely wrong.



1. This guy wasn't a scammer. Read the thread.



2. Blockchain.info don't want their BTC back. It's a totally separate business.



3. The problem is, as I said, that Roger Ver has access to a lot of information about account holders and their accounts, and he was prepared to leverage this information to resolve a customer service dispute in a completely unrelated business.



It's a bit rich that you would call me stupid, really. You have it completely wrong.1. This guy wasn't a scammer. Read the thread.2. Blockchain.info don't want their BTC back. It's a totally separate business.3. The problem is, as I said, that Roger Ver has access to a lot of information about account holders and their accounts, and he was prepared to leverage this information to resolve a customer service dispute in a completely unrelated business.It's a bit rich that you would call me stupid, really.

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Full MemberActivity: 126Merit: 100 Re: WARNING - Blockchain.info is NOT SAFE December 19, 2012, 03:08:00 PM #16 Fuck that guy charlie content didnt he start a thread cassing out how to steal bitcoin.. And now he's having a big cry about someone checking up on transactions and proves that indeed bcs were sent to an adress someone was denying. And he's crying about it? Something shows theres more to it than this.

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Hero MemberActivity: 518Merit: 500 Re: WARNING - Blockchain.info is NOT SAFE December 19, 2012, 03:08:40 PM #18 Quote from: CharlieContent on December 19, 2012, 03:05:43 PM Quote from: mccorvic on December 19, 2012, 02:58:49 PM So, if I have this right. A scammer gives blockchain.info his bitcoins for safe keeping, scams the guy who runs it, and then complains that blockchain.info might maybe want their BTC back even though that can't happen anyway?



GTFO!



I think I'm going to go buy something off bitcoinstore.com just to counteract your stupidity.



You have it completely wrong.



1. This guy wasn't a scammer. Read the thread.



2. Blockchain.info don't want their BTC back. It's a totally separate business.



3. The problem is, as I said, that Roger Ver has access to a lot of information about account holders and their accounts, and he was prepared to leverage this information to resolve a customer service dispute in a completely unrelated business.



It's a bit rich that you would call me stupid, really.

You have it completely wrong.1. This guy wasn't a scammer. Read the thread.2. Blockchain.info don't want their BTC back. It's a totally separate business.3. The problem is, as I said, that Roger Ver has access to a lot of information about account holders and their accounts, and he was prepared to leverage this information to resolve a customer service dispute in a completely unrelated business.It's a bit rich that you would call me stupid, really.

At this point, your asking me to either believe a long standing, trusted member of the community plus my own interpretation of reading the thread...or believe the scammer.



WHICH WILL I CHOOSE?! It is so hard! At this point, your asking me to either believe a long standing, trusted member of the community plus my own interpretation of reading the thread...or believe the scammer.WHICH WILL I CHOOSE?! It is so hard! Offering Video/Audio Editing Services since 2011 - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=77932.0

CharlieContent



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Full MemberActivity: 210Merit: 100 Re: WARNING - Blockchain.info is NOT SAFE December 19, 2012, 03:10:31 PM #20 Quote from: mccorvic on December 19, 2012, 03:08:40 PM At this point, your asking me to either believe a long standing, trusted member of the community plus my own interpretation of reading the thread...or believe the scammer.



WHICH WILL I CHOOSE?! It is so hard!



Why break the habit of a lifetime, right?



I think you have the facts wrong though. No one is asking you to believe the "scammer". (In all honesty I don't think he's technically a scammer. Ver paid him back too much money in error and he kept it, not really a scam. More like Ver fucked up. A scam usually involves deception, not taking advantage of someone else's mistake, although of course that is also wrong.)



All you have to do is read what Roger Ver himself wrote in that thread. He said himself that he has access to a lot of information about account holders and their accounts, and we can see for ourselves in the email chain he posted that he was prepared to leverage this information to resolve a customer service dispute in a completely unrelated business. Why break the habit of a lifetime, right?I think you have the facts wrong though. No one is asking you to believe the "scammer". (In all honesty I don't think he's technically a scammer. Ver paid him back too much money in error and he kept it, not really a scam. More like Ver fucked up. A scam usually involves deception, not taking advantage of someone else's mistake, although of course that is also wrong.)All you have to do is read what Roger Ver himself wrote in that thread. He said himself that he has access to a lot of information about account holders and their accounts, and we can see for ourselves in the email chain he posted that he was prepared to leverage this information to resolve a customer service dispute in a completely unrelated business.

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Sr. MemberActivity: 322Merit: 250 Re: WARNING - Blockchain.info is NOT SAFE December 19, 2012, 03:28:53 PM #25



While taking advantage of privileged information is bad this is getting overblown.



Let's stop the masterbatorial frothing. "Bitcoin has been an amazing ride, but the most fascinating part to me is the seemingly universal tendency of libertarians to immediately become authoritarians the very moment they are given any measure of power to silence the dissent of others." - The Bible

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LegendaryActivity: 2338Merit: 1730 Re: WARNING - MemoryDealers.com is NOT TRUSTWORTHY December 19, 2012, 03:57:29 PM

Last edit: December 19, 2012, 09:32:49 PM by DannyHamilton #29 Quote from: MemoryDealers on December 19, 2012, 03:34:38 PM Quote from: CharlieContent on December 19, 2012, 03:25:14 PM

You leveraged it in private.





He told me he didn't own the bitcoin address in question.

I told him in private that he did, and gave him the proof that I knew he did.

I don't see this as inappropriate.

He told me he didn't own the bitcoin address in question.I told him in private that he did, and gave him the proof that I knew he did.I don't see this as inappropriate.



Quote We will . . . distribute . . . your personal information to third parties unless we have your permission or are required by law to do so.

This is why blockchain.info has removed your access. They do not allow it to be used in this way, and you violated their trust.



In this instance bitcoinstore.com is a third party, and you have distributed the personal information of one of their users to that third party without the user's permission and without being required by law to do so.



EDIT: blockchain.info has acted in a responsible way and removed from MemoryDealers all future access to personal information. As such this post has been edited to make it clear that blockchain.info is not responsible for the actions of this particular ex-employee. It is inappropriate for someone who has admin access at blockchain.info to use that information for the benefit of some other business. As a matter of fact it is explicitly against the blockchain.info privacy policy:This is why blockchain.info has removed your access. They do not allow it to be used in this way, and you violated their trust.In this instance bitcoinstore.com is a third party, and you have distributed the personal information of one of their users to that third party without the user's permission and without being required by law to do so.EDIT: blockchain.info has acted in a responsible way and removed from MemoryDealers all future access to personal information. As such this post has been edited to make it clear that blockchain.info is not responsible for the actions of this particular ex-employee. https://21.co/dannyhamilton/



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LegendaryActivity: 2338Merit: 1730 Re: WARNING - MemoryDealers.com is NOT TRUSTWORTHY December 19, 2012, 04:07:50 PM

Last edit: December 19, 2012, 09:32:34 PM by DannyHamilton #32 I can not recommend bitcoinstore.com to anybody. I understand that they are frustrated with the loss of the bitcoins that they accidentally sent, and I realize that the "right thing to do" for the person who received those bitcoins was to return them. However, that does not make your abuse of special access to blockchain.info allowed you as an employee any less inappropriate. As far as I'm concerned the abuse of this access was at least as inappropriate as the failure of the person receiving the extra bitcoin to return them.



EDIT: blockchain.info has acted in a responsible way and removed from MemoryDealers all future access to personal information. As such this post has been edited to make it clear that blockchain.info is not responsible for the actions of this particular ex-employee. https://21.co/dannyhamilton/



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Hero MemberActivity: 481Merit: 500 Re: WARNING - Blockchain.info is NOT SAFE December 19, 2012, 04:08:21 PM #33 Quote Hope this episode will serve as a lesson to improve the services... In fact, the same mistakes will be done over and over again. And history will repeat.

Am I too pessimistic? In fact, the same mistakes will be done over and over again. And history will repeat.Am I too pessimistic?

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Sr. MemberActivity: 314Merit: 250 Re: WARNING - Blockchain.info is NOT SAFE December 19, 2012, 04:10:28 PM #34 Quote from: DannyHamilton on December 19, 2012, 04:07:50 PM As far as I knew blockchain.info and bitcoinstore.com were 2 completely separate and unrelated businesses. As far as I'm concerned, it is absolutely not appropriate for someone from one business to be using "admin access" at another business to gain special privileges.



I cannot in good faith (and will not) recommend blockchain.info to anybody ever again unless they do one of the following:





Publicly and openly state in an obvious and easy to find way on their main website which other businesses have special admin access to look up information on people's accounts.



or



Immediately sever all relationships with other businesses, removing admin access from anyone who would use that access to benefit their other business.



or



Provide all users with the exact same admin access, so that they too can track down scammers as necessary.





Furthermore, I can not and will not ever recommend bitcoinstore.com to anybody. I understand that they are frustrated with the loss of the bitcoins that they accidentally sent, and I realize that the "right thing to do" for the person who received those bitcoins was to return them. However, that does not make bitcoinstore.com use of special access to blockchain.info any less appropriate. As far as I'm concerned their use of this access was at least as inappropriate as the failure of the person receiving the extra bitcoin to return them.



Again +1 Again +1

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LegendaryActivity: 1064Merit: 1001 Re: WARNING - Blockchain.info is NOT SAFE December 19, 2012, 04:11:49 PM

Last edit: December 19, 2012, 04:45:41 PM by misterbigg #35 Are you FUCKING KIDDING ME? I wake up and read this?



In my mind this is almost as bad as the pirate shit and all the fraud going on with those exchanges. Blockchain is sold as having the utmost security and trust, with its local wallet operations, audited code base, and anonymity features.



That someone, an investor no less, would go in and take actions that are completely at odds with how the Blockchain service is marketed is very disappointing to hear. This is another black eye on the face of Bitcoin. And God knows, we certainly don't need any more of those.



Plus, isn't this MemoryDealers guy the kid who left the country because the IRS tried screw him or something? And now he does this?



To add insult to injury, this guy's responses in the thread show that he is totally irresponsible and cannot be trusted. To think that Blockchain users' personal information is available at the whim of this turncoat makes me shudder.



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LegendaryActivity: 1100Merit: 1000 Re: WARNING - Blockchain.info is NOT SAFE December 19, 2012, 04:28:19 PM #39 Quote from: misterbigg on December 19, 2012, 04:11:49 PM Plus, isn't this MemoryDealers guy the kid who left the country because the IRS tried to stick a dildo up his ass or something?



Maybe this talks good about Roger. Who, besides making mistakes from time to time, has an extensive history for supporting and developing Bitcoin worldwide. Trolls in this thread all summed up, have done less than 0.001% that Roger made in the benefit of the community.



And blockchain.info service and features are awesome. I support both Roger and blockchain.



Maybe this talks good about Roger. Who, besides making mistakes from time to time, has an extensive history for supporting and developing Bitcoin worldwide. Trolls in this thread all summed up, have done less than 0.001% that Roger made in the benefit of the community.And blockchain.info service and features are awesome. I support both Roger and blockchain. If you don't own the private keys, you don't own the coins.

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Hero MemberActivity: 910Merit: 1001 Re: WARNING - Blockchain.info is NOT SAFE December 19, 2012, 04:34:06 PM

Last edit: December 19, 2012, 07:13:13 PM by piuk #40 What happened

I do not know the sepcifics but there was some disagreement between Roger and a customer of bitcoinstore.com. The customer claimed not to own a particular bitcoin address that a incorrect amount had been refunded to. Roger used his access to the blockchain.info admin panel to lookup the information on a wallet which held that bitcoin address. This email address associated with the wallet and the email address of the customer matched.



Why is even possible?

Wallet are stored fully encrypted, so they appear as random text to us. However when notifications are enabled the client extracts the public keys from a wallet and asks blockchain.info to subscribe to those addresses. The ability too lookup a wallet using this information was added so that when newbies come to us and say "I just created a bitcoin wallet, but forgot to record the wallet identifier how can get I get my money back?" we can ask for their bitcoin address or ip and and are normally able to recover the identifier.



Screenshot of Admin Panel:







Why does Roger have access to the blockchain admin panel

He owns a minority stake in the company and helps with support. His funding has been tremendously helpful in allowing me to work on the Site full time, buy new servers, security hardware and fund free features.



Who else has access to this information?

Me, Roger and a customer support agent.



What has been changed

Roger and the support agent's access to this information has been revoked.

Bitcoin addresses stored for notification purposes have been deleted. Addresses are now stored as a SHA 256 hash of the address, which removes the ability to lookup a wallet by bitcoin address.

The secret phrase is now no longer shown to any admins

What other information could be used to identify a wallet

We store the ip address a wallet was created with and the ip address a wallet was last updated with.



A wallet can be looked up by SMS number or email if that information has been added in [Account Settings].



Can blockchain.info access funds the funds in my blockchain wallet?

No, the information available gives only enough information to prove the user may own a wallet with that address. He could not have accesses the wallet, even if he had wanted to. No other individuals have access to the blockchain.info servers or code apart from me. I do not know the sepcifics but there was some disagreement between Roger and a customer of bitcoinstore.com. The customer claimed not to own a particular bitcoin address that a incorrect amount had been refunded to. Roger used his access to the blockchain.info admin panel to lookup the information on a wallet which held that bitcoin address. This email address associated with the wallet and the email address of the customer matched.Wallet are stored fully encrypted, so they appear as random text to us. However when notifications are enabled the client extracts the public keys from a wallet and asks blockchain.info to subscribe to those addresses. The ability too lookup a wallet using this information was added so that when newbies come to us and say "I just created a bitcoin wallet, but forgot to record the wallet identifier how can get I get my money back?" we can ask for their bitcoin address or ip and and are normally able to recover the identifier.Screenshot of Admin Panel:He owns a minority stake in the company and helps with support. His funding has been tremendously helpful in allowing me to work on the Site full time, buy new servers, security hardware and fund free features.Me, Roger and a customer support agent.We store the ip address a wallet was created with and the ip address a wallet was last updated with.A wallet can be looked up by SMS number or email if that information has been added in [Account Settings].No, the information available gives only enough information to prove the user may own a wallet with that address. He could not have accesses the wallet, even if he had wanted to. No other individuals have access to the blockchain.info servers or code apart from me. Try a My Wallet Demo Account

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LegendaryActivity: 2338Merit: 1730 Re: WARNING - MemoryDealers.com is NOT TRUSTWORTHY December 19, 2012, 04:47:12 PM

Last edit: December 19, 2012, 09:31:55 PM by DannyHamilton #49 Quote from: piuk on December 19, 2012, 04:34:06 PM What has been changed

Roger and the support agent's access to this information has been revoked.

Bitcoin addresses stored for notification purposes have been deleted. Addresses are now stored as a SHA 256 hash of the address, which removes the ability to lookup a wallet by bitcoin address.

The secret phrase is now no longer shown to any admins

Piuk,



I am trying hard to trust you and your business. For now I will take you at your word. Please don't make me regret that action.



If you can assure me that nobody from bitcoinstore.com (including Roger) will have access to look up user's personal information (by bitcoin address, email address, SMS number, IP address, or any other method)



Then this satisfies my request that blockchain.info:



Immediately sever all relationships with other businesses, removing admin access from anyone who would use that access to benefit their other business.



EDIT: blockchain.info has acted in a responsible way and removed from MemoryDealers all future access to personal information. They could not know in advance that MemoryDealers would abuse the access allowed them as an employee. As such this post has been edited to make it clear that blockchain.info is not responsible for the actions of this particular ex-employee. Piuk,I am trying hard to trust you and your business. For now I will take you at your word. Please don't make me regret that action.If you can assure me that nobody from bitcoinstore.com (including Roger) will have access to look up user's personal information (by bitcoin address, email address, SMS number, IP address, or any other method)Then this satisfies my request that blockchain.info:EDIT: blockchain.info has acted in a responsible way and removed from MemoryDealers all future access to personal information. They could not know in advance that MemoryDealers would abuse the access allowed them as an employee. As such this post has been edited to make it clear that blockchain.info is not responsible for the actions of this particular ex-employee. https://21.co/dannyhamilton/



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Hero MemberActivity: 868Merit: 1000 Re: WARNING - Blockchain.info is NOT SAFE December 19, 2012, 04:50:39 PM

Last edit: December 19, 2012, 05:14:05 PM by Herodes #50 Quote Roger and the support agent's access to this information has been revoked.

Edit: My post edited in light of the new info surfacing. Didn't know Roger did support at blockchain.info. Edit: My post edited in light of the new info surfacing. Didn't know Roger did support at blockchain.info.

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Sr. MemberActivity: 314Merit: 250 Re: WARNING - Blockchain.info is NOT SAFE December 19, 2012, 04:53:34 PM #51 Roger,



I hope you have learned from this situation. You should thank the guy who possibly has been dishonest with you, because it served as an example to improve the services that you have participation.



Piuk, hope you learned too. Thanks

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Full MemberActivity: 152Merit: 100 Re: WARNING - Blockchain.info is NOT SAFE December 19, 2012, 05:02:45 PM #52 Quote from: piuk on December 19, 2012, 04:34:06 PM Addresses are now stored as a SHA 256 hash of the address, which removes the ability to lookup a wallet by bitcoin address.



I'm sure this is just a lack of comprehension on my part, but what would prevent someone from calculating the SHA256 of a bitcoin address on their own, and using that to look up the wallet? Does the SHA256 include a secret key as well as the address, to prevent others from calculating the hash? I'm sure this is just a lack of comprehension on my part, but what would prevent someone from calculating the SHA256 of a bitcoin address on their own, and using that to look up the wallet? Does the SHA256 include a secret key as well as the address, to prevent others from calculating the hash?

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Hero MemberActivity: 910Merit: 1001 Re: WARNING - Blockchain.info is NOT SAFE December 19, 2012, 05:11:27 PM #53 Quote from: Herodes on December 19, 2012, 04:50:39 PM Also - why did he need this kind of access in the first place ? Were blockchain.info customers alerted about his access to this system ?



He was given access to this information because I was getting bogged down in support tickets and Roger kindly offered to help with some of them. Requests to recover lost identifiers are one of the most common queries. At the time it had not occurred to me that there could be a conflict of interest. In the blockchain.info thread I posted that a minority stake in the site had been sold, but did not specifically mention the admin panel.



Quote from: nybble41 on December 19, 2012, 05:02:45 PM I'm sure this is just a lack of comprehension on my part, but what would prevent someone from calculating the SHA256 of a bitcoin address on their own, and using that to look up the wallet? Does the SHA256 include a secret key as well as the address, to prevent others from calculating the hash?



Addresses are hashed with a secret. With access to the secret it would be possible to hash every bitcoin address with a none zero balance and use that to compare against subscribed hashes to determine addresses in a wallet. The sacrifice of some anonymity when notifications are enabled has always been stated He was given access to this information because I was getting bogged down in support tickets and Roger kindly offered to help with some of them. Requests to recover lost identifiers are one of the most common queries. At the time it had not occurred to me that there could be a conflict of interest. In the blockchain.info thread I posted that a minority stake in the site had been sold, but did not specifically mention the admin panel.Addresses are hashed with a secret. With access to the secret it would be possible to hash every bitcoin address with a none zero balance and use that to compare against subscribed hashes to determine addresses in a wallet. The sacrifice of some anonymity when notifications are enabled has always been stated https://blockchain.info/wallet/anonymity . However it is no longer possible for admins to lookup an arbitrary wallet by address. Try a My Wallet Demo Account

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LegendaryActivity: 1666Merit: 1211 Re: WARNING - Blockchain.info is NOT SAFE December 19, 2012, 05:21:05 PM #54 Quote from: CharlieContent on December 19, 2012, 02:39:08 PM Quote from: MemoryDealers on December 19, 2012, 02:36:28 PM Reserved if needed.

(I didn't leak or abuse any information at all from Blockchain, please read the other thread.)



You didn't leak any of it, but you have access to a TON of information about account holders and their accounts, and you were prepared to leverage this information to resolve a customer service dispute in a completely unrelated business. I call that abusing it.

You didn't leak any of it, but you have access to a TON of information about account holders and their accounts, and you were prepared to leverage this information to resolve a customer service dispute in a completely unrelated business. I call that abusing it.

you cant be serious. I personally wish everyone would always post all information publicly about any and all fraud/dishonesty. It would help to lessen the need for the use of violence in resolving disputes. you cant be serious. I personally wish everyone would always post all information publicly about any and all fraud/dishonesty. It would help to lessen the need for the use of violence in resolving disputes.

If one can not confer upon another a right which he does not himself first possess, by what means does the state derive the right to engage in behaviors from which the public is prohibited? Rep Thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=381041 If one can not confer upon another a right which he does not himself first possess, by what means does the state derive the right to engage in behaviors from which the public is prohibited?

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Mike CaldwellVIPLegendaryActivity: 1386Merit: 1062The Casascius 1oz 10BTC Silver Round (w/ Gold B) Re: WARNING - Blockchain.info is NOT SAFE December 19, 2012, 05:45:59 PM #58 While everyone's mind is focused on Blockchain, there is one thing that I think would be a +1000: an open-source (or at least source visible) downloadable executable client for all its services. So, someone who has assured themselves they have downloaded good client code doesn't have to worry that they'll be served some malicious script on a future visit, and it can be put in an independent repository where third parties have signed off on it.



While an executable client would be great, even just a folder full of .html and .js files would be more than satisfactory, and would have the benefit of being cross-platform. You could also see others willing to fork it and share improvements to it.



In my mind, if blockchain being a "web wallet" is the only hesitation to recommending it, doing this would definitely push it over the threshold. Companies claiming they got hacked and lost your coins sounds like fraud so perfect it could be called fashionable. I never believe them. If I ever experience the misfortune of a real intrusion, I declare I have been honest about the way I have managed the keys in Casascius Coins. I maintain no ability to recover or reproduce the keys, not even under limitless duress or total intrusion. Remember that trusting strangers with your coins without any recourse is, as a matter of principle, not a best practice. Don't keep coins online. Use paper or hardware wallets instead.

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LegendaryActivity: 1372Merit: 1001 Re: WARNING - Blockchain.info is NOT SAFE December 19, 2012, 05:54:41 PM #59 Quote from: casascius on December 19, 2012, 05:45:59 PM While everyone's mind is focused on Blockchain, there is one thing that I think would be a +1000: an open-source (or at least source visible) downloadable executable client for all its services. So, someone who has assured themselves they have downloaded good client code doesn't have to worry that they'll be served some malicious script on a future visit, and it can be put in an independent repository where third parties have signed off on it.



While an executable client would be great, even just a folder full of .html and .js files would be more than satisfactory, and would have the benefit of being cross-platform. You could also see others willing to fork it and share improvements to it.



In my mind, if blockchain being a "web wallet" is the only hesitation to recommending it, doing this would definitely push it over the threshold.

With such a client, blockchain's purpose would be relegated to calculating account/address balances, broadcasting transactions, and storing encrypted backups?



Makes sense to me. Only issue might be the lack of revenue that blockchain brings in from a downloadable client, vs they at least bring in some revenue via an ad on most pages right now. With such a client, blockchain's purpose would be relegated to calculating account/address balances, broadcasting transactions, and storing encrypted backups?Makes sense to me. Only issue might be the lack of revenue that blockchain brings in from a downloadable client, vs they at least bring in some revenue via an ad on most pages right now.

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Global Troll-buster andLegendaryActivity: 1288Merit: 1142Will read PM's. Have more time lately Re: WARNING - Blockchain.info is NOT SAFE December 19, 2012, 05:56:25 PM #60 Quote from: casascius on December 19, 2012, 05:45:59 PM While everyone's mind is focused on Blockchain, there is one thing that I think would be a +1000: an open-source (or at least source visible) downloadable executable client for all its services. So, someone who has assured themselves they have downloaded good client code doesn't have to worry that they'll be served some malicious script on a future visit, and it can be put in an independent repository where third parties have signed off on it.



While an executable client would be great, even just a folder full of .html and .js files would be more than satisfactory, and would have the benefit of being cross-platform. You could also see others willing to fork it and share improvements to it.



In my mind, if blockchain being a "web wallet" is the only hesitation to recommending it, doing this would definitely push it over the threshold.

This would be like Electrum plus the storage of encrypted wallet in the cloud to me. This would be like Electrum plus the storage of encrypted wallet in the cloud to me. My BTC Tip Jar: 1Pgvfy19uwtYe5o9dg3zZsAjgCPt3XZqz9 , GPG ID: B3AAEEB0 ,OTC ID: johnthedong

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Mike CaldwellVIPLegendaryActivity: 1386Merit: 1062The Casascius 1oz 10BTC Silver Round (w/ Gold B) Re: WARNING - Blockchain.info is NOT SAFE December 19, 2012, 06:02:48 PM #63 Quote from: John (johnthedong) on December 19, 2012, 05:56:25 PM This would be like Electrum plus the storage of encrypted wallet in the cloud to me.



Plus web-based access to it in a pinch, as well as mobile phone access. Plus web-based access to it in a pinch, as well as mobile phone access. Companies claiming they got hacked and lost your coins sounds like fraud so perfect it could be called fashionable. I never believe them. If I ever experience the misfortune of a real intrusion, I declare I have been honest about the way I have managed the keys in Casascius Coins. I maintain no ability to recover or reproduce the keys, not even under limitless duress or total intrusion. Remember that trusting strangers with your coins without any recourse is, as a matter of principle, not a best practice. Don't keep coins online. Use paper or hardware wallets instead.

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LegendaryActivity: 2338Merit: 1730 Re: WARNING - MemoryDealers.com is NOT TRUSTWORTHY December 19, 2012, 06:26:29 PM

Last edit: December 19, 2012, 09:31:14 PM by DannyHamilton #70 Quote from: MemoryDealers on December 19, 2012, 06:20:29 PM Quote from: MPOE-PR on December 19, 2012, 06:06:54 PM Quote from: MemoryDealers on December 19, 2012, 02:36:28 PM I no longer have access to any part of Blockchain.info's admin pannel.



I think you should change the thread title, or better yet, lock the thread and ask the mods to delete it.

Certainly not.

Certainly not.

. . . every single issue that was brought up in the initial post of this thread has been solved. Therefore the thread title is not true, and should be changed so as not to cause undue alarm . . .



If Piuk will publicly confirm that ALL ACCESS to personal information has been removed from you, then I'll agree that the issue expressed in this thread is closed.



EDIT: blockchain.info has acted in a responsible way and removed from MemoryDealers all future access to personal information. They could not know in advance that MemoryDealers would abuse the access allowed them as an employee. As such this post has been edited to make it clear that blockchain.info is not responsible for the actions of this particular ex-employee.



At this point as far as I am concerned, blockchain.info has taken the necessary actions to make sure that your personal information stored with them IS SAFE.



This issue should be considered resolved and the discussion thread locked. If anyone has issue specifically with Roger/MemoryDealers/bitcoinstore.com, it should be discussed in a separate thread so as not to confuse the issue and soil blockchain.info's good reputation. I am still waiting for confirmation from Piuk that ALL your access to the personal information of blockchain.info's users has been removed and not just the "admin panel". Do you have direct access to the database? Are that other panels that you have access to that provide any personal information at all? Do you have access to backups of the database?If Piuk will publicly confirm that ALL ACCESS to personal information has been removed from you, then I'll agree that the issue expressed in this thread is closed.EDIT: blockchain.info has acted in a responsible way and removed from MemoryDealers all future access to personal information. They could not know in advance that MemoryDealers would abuse the access allowed them as an employee. As such this post has been edited to make it clear that blockchain.info is not responsible for the actions of this particular ex-employee.At this point as far as I am concerned, blockchain.info has taken the necessary actions to make sure that your personal information stored with themThis issue should be considered resolved and the discussion thread locked. If anyone has issue specifically with Roger/MemoryDealers/bitcoinstore.com, it should be discussed in a separate thread so as not to confuse the issue and soil blockchain.info's good reputation. https://21.co/dannyhamilton/



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LegendaryActivity: 1064Merit: 1001 Re: WARNING - Blockchain.info is NOT SAFE December 19, 2012, 06:26:35 PM

Last edit: December 19, 2012, 07:27:48 PM by misterbigg #71 Quote from: MemoryDealers on December 19, 2012, 06:06:54 PM I think you should change the thread title, or better yet, lock the thread and ask the mods to delete it.

I'm sure you would love to make this mistake go away but hopefully the mods recognize that this thread contains invaluable information for those considering placing trust in MemoryDealers and/or Blockchain.info.



Instead of CYA why don't you simply admit to your mistake?



EDIT: I'm specifically referring to MemoryDealers here. Blockchain has done a great job dealing with the public and responding to this horrific turn of events. I'm sure you would love to make this mistake go away but hopefully the mods recognize that this thread contains invaluable information for those considering placing trust in MemoryDealers and/or Blockchain.info.Instead of CYA why don't you simply admit to your mistake?

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LegendaryActivity: 2338Merit: 1730 Re: WARNING - MemoryDealers.com is NOT TRUSTWORTHY December 19, 2012, 06:32:25 PM

Last edit: December 19, 2012, 09:31:01 PM by DannyHamilton #73 Quote from: misterbigg on December 19, 2012, 06:26:35 PM Quote from: MPOE-PR on December 19, 2012, 06:06:54 PM I think you should change the thread title, or better yet, lock the thread and ask the mods to delete it. I'm sure you would love to make this mistake go away but hopefully the mods recognize that this thread contains invaluable information for those considering placing trust in . . . Blockchain.info . . .

I'm sure you would love to make this mistake go away but hopefully the mods recognize that this thread contains invaluable information for those considering placing trust in . . . Blockchain.info . . .

Note that blockchain.info has gone a long way toward restoring trust in them. They couldn't know ahead of time that this minority stakeholder would violate their trust when they gave them access to assist in daily operations. They claim since to have removed this person's access to the admin panel, which is what I would expect a responsible business to do. If they will confirm that all access to the database has been permanently removed, I will consider them to be a trustworthy business who happened to unknowingly hire an untrustworthy employee and dealt with the situation appropriately.



EDIT: blockchain.info has acted in a responsible way and removed from MemoryDealers all future access to personal information. They could not know in advance that MemoryDealers would abuse the access allowed them as an employee. As such this post has been edited to make it clear that blockchain.info is not responsible for the actions of this particular ex-employee. Note that blockchain.info has gone a long way toward restoring trust in them. They couldn't know ahead of time that this minority stakeholder would violate their trust when they gave them access to assist in daily operations. They claim since to have removed this person's access to the admin panel, which is what I would expect a responsible business to do. If they will confirm that all access to the database has been permanently removed, I will consider them to be a trustworthy business who happened to unknowingly hire an untrustworthy employee and dealt with the situation appropriately.EDIT: blockchain.info has acted in a responsible way and removed from MemoryDealers all future access to personal information. They could not know in advance that MemoryDealers would abuse the access allowed them as an employee. As such this post has been edited to make it clear that blockchain.info is not responsible for the actions of this particular ex-employee. https://21.co/dannyhamilton/



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Sr. MemberActivity: 322Merit: 250 Re: WARNING - Blockchain.info is NOT SAFE December 19, 2012, 06:49:26 PM #77



1. MemoryDealers accidentally had Bitcoins sent to nethead's Bitcoin address, rather than his own.

2. MemoryDealers asked for the Bitcoins back. A reasonable request, but he did mess up, and it is his own fault, with all due respect.

3. nethead lied about having the Bitcoins.

4. MemoryDealers accessed his account information on another server (Blockchain.info) for the purpose of verifying that nethead did, indeed, have the Bitcoins. It is worth noting that MemoryDealers did not have access to nethead's Bitcoins. He posted personal information of nethead's and his key to disable two-factor authentication, albeit without noting that's what the phrase could be used for.

5. nethead said the phrase was his secret key.

6.

7. Shit storm.



So basically, MemoryDealers was angry and did some things he shouldn't have. He shouldn't have posted nethead's information, and he should probably have just sucked up that about $50 of his was gone.



But nethead also should have paid up. nethead should not have lied above all else.



And everyone's Blockchain.info funds are safe. Those can't be stolen from you by an admin just through database lookup. I will continue to use Blockchain.info for this reason. What I understand from reading the first thread:1. MemoryDealers accidentally had Bitcoins sent to nethead's Bitcoin address, rather than his own.2. MemoryDealers asked for the Bitcoins back. A reasonable request, but he did mess up, and it is his own fault, with all due respect.3. nethead lied about having the Bitcoins.4. MemoryDealers accessed his account information on another server (Blockchain.info) for the purpose of verifying that nethead did, indeed, have the Bitcoins. It is worth noting that MemoryDealers did not have access to nethead's Bitcoins. He posted personal information of nethead's and his key to disable two-factor authentication, albeit without noting that's what the phrase could be used for.5. nethead said the phrase was his secret key.6.7. Shit storm.So basically, MemoryDealers was angry and did some things he shouldn't have. He shouldn't have posted nethead's information, and he should probably have just sucked up that about $50 of his was gone.But nethead also should have paid up. nethead should not haveabove all else.And everyone's Blockchain.info funds are safe. Those can't be stolen from you by an admin just through database lookup. I will continue to use Blockchain.info for this reason. PGP | OTC | @JohnMaguire2013



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LegendaryActivity: 2338Merit: 1730 Re: WARNING - MemoryDealers.com is NOT TRUSTWORTHY December 19, 2012, 06:52:09 PM

Last edit: December 19, 2012, 09:30:39 PM by DannyHamilton #78 Quote from: John (johnthedong) on December 19, 2012, 06:30:12 PM

Quote Roger and the support agent's access to this information has been revoked. As per what piuk said before, I'd think all access is severed:

When I read the following:



Quote from: piuk on December 19, 2012, 04:34:06 PM What happened

. . . Roger used his access to the blockchain.info admin panel to lookup . . .



Why does Roger have access to the blockchain admin panel

He . . . helps with support . . .



Who else has access to this information?

Me, Roger and a customer support agent.



What has been changed

Roger and the support agent's access to this information has been revoked. . . . Roger used his access to the blockchain.info admin panel to lookup . . .He . . . helps with support . . .Me, Roger and a customer support agent.

It is unclear if "access to this information" means specifically "access to the admin panel" or "access to all personal information". It could still be possible for Roger to access personal information without access to the admin panel depending on blockchain.info's network and database security.



EDIT: blockchain.info has acted in a responsible way and removed from MemoryDealers all future access to personal information. They could not know in advance that MemoryDealers would abuse the access allowed them as an employee. As such this post has been edited to make it clear that blockchain.info is not responsible for the actions of this particular ex-employee. When I read the following:It is unclear if "access to this information" means specifically "access to the admin panel" or "access to all personal information". It could still be possible for Roger to access personal information without access to the admin panel depending on blockchain.info's network and database security.EDIT: blockchain.info has acted in a responsible way and removed from MemoryDealers all future access to personal information. They could not know in advance that MemoryDealers would abuse the access allowed them as an employee. As such this post has been edited to make it clear that blockchain.info is not responsible for the actions of this particular ex-employee. https://21.co/dannyhamilton/



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Global Troll-buster andLegendaryActivity: 1288Merit: 1142Will read PM's. Have more time lately Re: WARNING - Blockchain.info is NOT SAFE December 19, 2012, 06:54:29 PM #79 Quote from: John Maguire (lulzplzkthx) on December 19, 2012, 06:49:26 PM



1. MemoryDealers accidentally had Bitcoins sent to nethead's Bitcoin address, rather than his own.

2. MemoryDealers asked for the Bitcoins back. A reasonable request, but he did mess up, and it is his own fault, with all due respect.

3. nethead lied about having the Bitcoins.

4. MemoryDealers accessed his account information on another server (Blockchain.info) for the purpose of verifying that nethead did, indeed, have the Bitcoins. It is worth noting that MemoryDealers did not have access to nethead's Bitcoins. He posted personal information of nethead's and his key to disable two-factor authentication, albeit without noting that's what the phrase could be used for.

5. nethead said the phrase was his secret key.

6.

7. Shit storm.



So basically, MemoryDealers was angry and did some things he shouldn't have. He shouldn't have posted nethead's information, and he should probably have just sucked up that about $50 of his was gone.



But nethead also should have paid up. nethead should not have lied above all else.



And everyone's Blockchain.info funds are safe. Those can't be stolen from you by an admin just through database lookup. I will continue to use Blockchain.info for this reason.

What I understand from reading the first thread:1. MemoryDealers accidentally had Bitcoins sent to nethead's Bitcoin address, rather than his own.2. MemoryDealers asked for the Bitcoins back. A reasonable request, but he did mess up, and it is his own fault, with all due respect.3. nethead lied about having the Bitcoins.4. MemoryDealers accessed his account information on another server (Blockchain.info) for the purpose of verifying that nethead did, indeed, have the Bitcoins. It is worth noting that MemoryDealers did not have access to nethead's Bitcoins. He posted personal information of nethead's and his key to disable two-factor authentication, albeit without noting that's what the phrase could be used for.5. nethead said the phrase was his secret key.6.7. Shit storm.So basically, MemoryDealers was angry and did some things he shouldn't have. He shouldn't have posted nethead's information, and he should probably have just sucked up that about $50 of his was gone.But nethead also should have paid up. nethead should not haveabove all else.And everyone's Blockchain.info funds are safe. Those can't be stolen from you by an admin just through database lookup. I will continue to use Blockchain.info for this reason.

Everything is mostly on spot except 4, where Roger sent the info privately to nethead/bitbitman , where he then posted them himself amidst the confusion at the forums. Everything is mostly on spot except 4, where Roger sent the info privately to nethead/bitbitman , where he then posted them himself amidst the confusion at the forums. My BTC Tip Jar: 1Pgvfy19uwtYe5o9dg3zZsAjgCPt3XZqz9 , GPG ID: B3AAEEB0 ,OTC ID: johnthedong

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LegendaryActivity: 2338Merit: 1730 Re: WARNING - MemoryDealers.com is NOT TRUSTWORTHY December 19, 2012, 06:57:31 PM

Last edit: December 19, 2012, 09:30:19 PM by DannyHamilton #82 Quote from: John Maguire (lulzplzkthx) on December 19, 2012, 06:49:26 PM . . . everyone's Blockchain.info funds are safe. Those can't be stolen from you by an admin just through database lookup. I will continue to use Blockchain.info for this reason.

Agreed, nobody's funds were ever at risk in this event. Their personal information on the other hand certainly was. Fortunately, blockchain.info has acted in a responsible manner removing access to personal information from the person who abused that access.



Unfortunately, once a business's (or person's) reputation is damaged, it can be difficult to repair it. This is why many people value their reputation and go to great lengths to protect it.



EDIT: blockchain.info has acted in a responsible way and removed from MemoryDealers all future access to personal information. They could not know in advance that MemoryDealers would abuse the access allowed them as an employee. As such this post has been edited to make it clear that blockchain.info is not responsible for the actions of this particular ex-employee. Agreed, nobody's funds were ever at risk in this event. Their personal information on the other hand certainly was. Fortunately, blockchain.info has acted in a responsible manner removing access to personal information from the person who abused that access.Unfortunately, once a business's (or person's) reputation is damaged, it can be difficult to repair it. This is why many people value their reputation and go to great lengths to protect it.EDIT: blockchain.info has acted in a responsible way and removed from MemoryDealers all future access to personal information. They could not know in advance that MemoryDealers would abuse the access allowed them as an employee. As such this post has been edited to make it clear that blockchain.info is not responsible for the actions of this particular ex-employee. https://21.co/dannyhamilton/



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CTGVIPLegendaryActivity: 1064Merit: 1002BCJ Re: WARNING - Blockchain.info is NOT SAFE December 19, 2012, 07:01:40 PM #85 Weren't some of the bitcoinica hacks caused in part because too many clueless people had admin access? Will we ever learn?



Come on Roger. Fifty bucks??!!



The only thing we have in this community, after our bitcoins, is our trust and integrity.



Unfortunately this action speaks volumes.

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Global Troll-buster andLegendaryActivity: 1288Merit: 1142Will read PM's. Have more time lately Re: WARNING - Blockchain.info is NOT SAFE December 19, 2012, 07:03:55 PM #86 Quote from: Mendacium on December 19, 2012, 07:00:16 PM Quote from: John (johnthedong) on December 19, 2012, 06:54:29 PM Everything is mostly on spot except 4, where Roger sent the info privately to nethead/bitbitman , where he then posted them himself amidst the confusion at the forums.



Roger posted private information about nethead and deleted afterwards. What he sent privately was the JSON response from blockchain.info.



The case is simple:



Roger broken his own privacy agreement by posting the private information about nethead on this forum.

Blockchain.info broken their own agreement by giving the private information about nethead to Roger.

The funds that were sent to nethead were sent from Bitpay's address.



Nethead should return funds back to Bitpay, not Roger.



Roger posted private information about nethead and deleted afterwards. What he sent privately was the JSON response from blockchain.info.The case is simple:Roger broken his own privacy agreement by posting the private information about nethead on this forum.Blockchain.info broken their own agreement by giving the private information about nethead to Roger.The funds that were sent to nethead were sent from Bitpay's address.Nethead should return funds back to Bitpay, not Roger.

I was referring to John Maguire's 4th statement where he stated that the information from blockchain.info was published in this forum.



Bit pay sent out the extra payment after Rogers's employee mistakenly instructed them to do so - hence, the losses acquired would be counted as Rogers's losses in this case. I was referring to John Maguire's 4th statement where he stated that the information from blockchain.info was published in this forum.Bit pay sent out the extra payment after Rogers's employee mistakenly instructed them to do so - hence, the losses acquired would be counted as Rogers's losses in this case. My BTC Tip Jar: 1Pgvfy19uwtYe5o9dg3zZsAjgCPt3XZqz9 , GPG ID: B3AAEEB0 ,OTC ID: johnthedong

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LegendaryActivity: 2338Merit: 1730 Re: WARNING - MemoryDealers.com is NOT TRUSTWORTHY December 19, 2012, 07:26:33 PM

Last edit: December 19, 2012, 09:29:24 PM by DannyHamilton #90 Quote from: MemoryDealers on December 19, 2012, 07:15:52 PM . . .I understand the confusion and anger that was caused by my using information from Blockchain.info for Bitcoinstore purposes.

I apologize for my lack of judgment in regards to this . . .



Finally you acknowledge your mistake in this. This goes a long way towards restoring my trust. Mistakes and lack of judgement can occur in a heated moment. It is important to recognize when we make such a mistake so we can learn from the event and avoid similar actions that bring our judgement into question in the future.



Quote from: MemoryDealers on December 19, 2012, 07:15:52 PM . . . but I think it should be noted that I simply disclosed a users own information to himself in order to prove that he was lying to me.



I never disclosed his blockchan.info information to an unrelated third party.



And then this.



bitcoinstore.com IS a third party. You used information that was private between the customer and blockchain.info, and disclosed it for use by bitcoinstore.com. If you didn't have access to the admin panel and had to call Piuk up on the phone and have him look it up for you, then it would be obvious that it was disclosed to a third party. It seems that, because you are the same person acting in two completely separate capacities, you can't see how this is disclosure of information from blockchain.info to a third party.



EDIT: blockchain.info has acted in a responsible way and removed from MemoryDealers all future access to personal information. They could not know in advance that MemoryDealers would abuse the access allowed them as an employee. As such this post has been edited to make it clear that blockchain.info is not responsible for the actions of this particular ex-employee. Finally you acknowledge your mistake in this. This goes a long way towards restoring my trust. Mistakes and lack of judgement can occur in a heated moment. It is important to recognize when we make such a mistake so we can learn from the event and avoid similar actions that bring our judgement into question in the future.And then this.bitcoinstore.coma third party. You used information that was private between the customer and blockchain.info, and disclosed it for use by bitcoinstore.com. If you didn't have access to the admin panel and had to call Piuk up on the phone and have him look it up for you, then it would be obvious that it was disclosed to a third party. It seems that, because you are the same person acting in two completely separate capacities, you can't see how this is disclosure of information from blockchain.info to a third party.EDIT: blockchain.info has acted in a responsible way and removed from MemoryDealers all future access to personal information. They could not know in advance that MemoryDealers would abuse the access allowed them as an employee. As such this post has been edited to make it clear that blockchain.info is not responsible for the actions of this particular ex-employee. https://21.co/dannyhamilton/



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LegendaryActivity: 1064Merit: 1001 Re: WARNING - Blockchain.info is NOT SAFE December 19, 2012, 07:30:36 PM #93 Quote from: MPOE-PR on December 19, 2012, 06:36:03 PM The other thing that has to cease is the unwarranted delusions of self importance. You personally are not great enough to request moderators to delete the signs of your stupidity "so as not to harm bitcoin".

I have noticed exactly this delusion of self-importance in my private communications with the individual in question. I refrain from quoting the relevant messages because they are private and I haven't gotten permission to do so (Roger, may I?) I have noticed exactly this delusion of self-importance in my private communications with the individual in question. I refrain from quoting the relevant messages because they are private and I haven't gotten permission to do so (Roger, may I?)

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Full MemberActivity: 210Merit: 100 Re: WARNING - Blockchain.info is NOT SAFE December 19, 2012, 07:37:37 PM #95



He may not have done anything truly unforgivable, but what he did was wrong. It was wrong enough that it shouldn't just go away. It can't. He abused his position to serve himself. I don't like that. Unsurprisingly neither did anyone else who took the time to understand it.



I'm very pleased to see Piuk's response. Roger, take notes: that is how a professional acts.



I actually use Blockchain.info myself, although I only ever keep small amounts of coins on there, and for a short amount of time, because this is Bitcoin and I trust no one. After this I was going to stop using it, but Piuk's response was spot on and enough to reassure me that there is a professional involved. I'll be continuing to use Blockchain.info, at least in the very cautious way that I'd use any web-wallet.



Still, I think it's important that Blockchain.info users, and anyone else in the Bitcoin community understands what happened today. For that reason I will not be changing or altering this thread in any way.



Quote from: MPOE-PR on December 19, 2012, 06:36:03 PM The other thing that has to cease is the unwarranted delusions of self importance. You personally are not great enough to request moderators to delete the signs of your stupidity "so as not to harm bitcoin".

The delusions of self importance are strong in this one. Particularly laughable is the "I am the most significant investor in Bitcoin the world has ever seen!"quote from the first thread along with a link where he is mentioned in passing on Forbes.com.



Wowee Roger! Can I have your autograph? Roger Ver has PMed me asking me to lock this thread. His desire is to cover up information that will "damage Bitcoin." Of course the only thing Roger Ver is worried about damaging is Roger Ver. What he did is corruption, pure and simple, and Bitcoin will only be served by exposing him. Allowing snakes to hide in the grass will never be for the greater good.He may not have done anything truly unforgivable, but what he did was wrong. It was wrong enough that it shouldn't just go away. It can't. He abused his position to serve himself. I don't like that. Unsurprisingly neither did anyone else who took the time to understand it.I'm very pleased to see Piuk's response. Roger, take notes: that is how a professional acts.I actually use Blockchain.info myself, although I only ever keep small amounts of coins on there, and for a short amount of time, because this is Bitcoin and I trust no one. After this I was going to stop using it, but Piuk's response was spot on and enough to reassure me that there is a professional involved. I'll be continuing to use Blockchain.info, at least in the very cautious way that I'd use any web-wallet.Still, I think it's important that Blockchain.info users, and anyone else in the Bitcoin community understands what happened today. For that reason I will not be changing or altering this thread in any way.The delusions of self importance are strong in this one. Particularly laughable is the "I am the most significant investor in Bitcoin the world has ever seen!"quote from the first thread along with a link where he is mentioned in passing on Forbes.com.Wowee Roger! Can I have your autograph?

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LegendaryActivity: 1064Merit: 1001 Re: WARNING - Blockchain.info is NOT SAFE December 19, 2012, 07:43:35 PM #96 TL;DR version:



1) Blockchain.info investor MemoryDealers uses administrative access to get personal information connected to a particular wallet



2) Owner of MemoryDealers comes to the forum and acts like an asshat.



3) Owner of Blockchain.info sets things right.



4) Bitcoins and private keys from Blockchain.info are safe.



This about right?



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LegendaryActivity: 1680Merit: 1028 Re: WARNING - Blockchain.info is NOT SAFE December 19, 2012, 07:46:09 PM #97 I sincerely hope that one of the lessons learned from this whole experience is that all Bitcoin-based businesses will add the following to their TOS in big bold letters:



"NOTE: if you try to scam us, and we find out, your account will be canceled, all your information, public and private, will be shared with all third parties we do business with, who may stop doing business with you as well, and this information may be shared publicly at our discretion."



Since Bitcoin business is done globally, some guy from China calling the police on someone in Greece is really not practical, and the threat of being even mistakenly labeled a scammer would hopefully knock these "Prove that I scammed you, asshole!" guys down a peg.



Also, I am concerned about the deceptive title damaging the reputation of blockchain.info, who, if you actually understand how they work, have absolutely no way of getting your coins even if they wanted to, the owner which was not involved in this, and who handled the issue quickly and professionally. https://www.academytoken.com

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LegendaryActivity: 1372Merit: 1001 Re: WARNING - Blockchain.info is NOT SAFE December 19, 2012, 07:50:52 PM #98



Quote from: Rassah on December 19, 2012, 07:46:09 PM I sincerely hope that one of the lessons learned from this whole experience is that all Bitcoin-based businesses will add the following to their TOS in big bold letters:



"NOTE: if you try to scam us, and we find out, your account will be canceled, all your information, public and private, will be shared with all third parties we do business with, who may stop doing business with you as well, and this information may be shared publicly at our discretion."



Since Bitcoin business is done globally, some guy from China calling the police on someone in Greece is really not practical, and the threat of being even mistakenly labeled a scammer would hopefully knock these "Prove that I scammed you, asshole!" guys down a peg.

Sweet, I like it!!! @Charlie, I agree with keeping the thread, but the title SHOULD be changed. I think everyone here agrees that blockchain.info is, once again, safe for usage. The title would likely scare newbies away from using the service (which is the best Bitcoin wallet a person can point a new user to). Without a good alternative, they may download QT (NOOOOO!) or try one of the other less user-friendly options, and be turned away from using Bitcoin entirely. Many of the things discussed in this thread may not be understood by newbies, and certainly, they are not likely to read through 5 pages of discussions to find out that the issue has been resolved.Sweet, I like it!!!

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LegendaryActivity: 1458Merit: 1004 Re: WARNING - Blockchain.info is NOT SAFE December 19, 2012, 08:09:25 PM #104 Quote from: SgtSpike on December 19, 2012, 07:50:52 PM @Charlie, I agree with keeping the thread, but the title SHOULD be changed. I think everyone here agrees that blockchain.info is, once again, safe for usage. The title would likely scare newbies away from using the service (which is the best Bitcoin wallet a person can point a new user to). Without a good alternative, they may download QT (NOOOOO!) or try one of the other less user-friendly options, and be turned away from using Bitcoin entirely. Many of the things discussed in this thread may not be understood by newbies, and certainly, they are not likely to read through 5 pages of discussions to find out that the issue has been resolved.



Yes. The title, "Blockchain.info is NOT SAFE" is both dishonest and misleading.



"Your personal data is not safe with Blockchain.info" was apparently true up until today. Pretty bad in itself.



The thread should be kept, but the false and misleading title should be changed. If not by OP, then by a mod. Yes. The title, "Blockchain.info is NOT SAFE" is both dishonest and misleading."Your personal data is not safe with Blockchain.info" was apparently true up until today. Pretty bad in itself.The thread should be kept, but the false and misleading title should be changed. If not by OP, then by a mod.

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LegendaryActivity: 2338Merit: 1730 Re: WARNING - MemoryDealers.com is NOT TRUSTWORTHY December 19, 2012, 08:19:59 PM

Last edit: December 19, 2012, 09:28:44 PM by DannyHamilton #106 Quote from: CharlieContent on December 19, 2012, 07:37:37 PM . . . Still, I think it's important that Blockchain.info users, and anyone else in the Bitcoin community understands what happened today. For that reason I will not be changing or altering this thread in any way . . .

You really should reconsider this. It would be ok to leave the thread unlocked if you really want to, and I'd definitely say you shouldn't ask for it's deletion. However, it is important to recognize that Blockchain.info is safe, and is inappropriate for you to hold them responsible for the actions of the owner of bitcoinstore.com.



I'd suggest you change the title to either:



WARNING - Bitcoinstore.com is NOT TRUSTWORTHY



or



[RESOLVED] - Blockchain.info was not safe



Either one makes sure that your point is still made while reducing confusion for new users. You really should reconsider this. It would be ok to leave the thread unlocked if you really want to, and I'd definitely say you shouldn't ask for it's deletion. However, it is important to recognize that Blockchain.info is safe, and is inappropriate for you to hold them responsible for the actions of the owner of bitcoinstore.com.I'd suggest you change the title to either:orEither one makes sure that your point is still made while reducing confusion for new users. https://21.co/dannyhamilton/



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NewbieActivity: 44Merit: 0 Re: WARNING - Blockchain.info is NOT SAFE December 19, 2012, 08:45:35 PM #109 Quote from: Rassah on December 19, 2012, 07:46:09 PM I sincerely hope that one of the lessons learned from this whole experience is that all Bitcoin-based businesses will add the following to their TOS in big bold letters:



"NOTE: if you try to scam us, and we find out, your account will be canceled, all your information, public and private, will be shared with all third parties we do business with, who may stop doing business with you as well, and this information may be shared publicly at our discretion."



If the Bitcoin community wants to be taken seriously, Bitcoin businesses better not make that a policy. ...and if the community has nothing better to do than publicly circulate lists of supposed scammers then you're just reinforcing the negative image others try to pin on Bitcoin as only being about scams and we deserve every bit of mockery we get from those outside who see Bitcoin as nothing but.



Bitcoin has its benefits and its drawbacks - if you don't see that the benefits are much greater and accept the drawbacks then go back to doing ecommerce with credit cards: you'll be able to correct mistakes in refunds, but you'll also never be able to do business with 95% of the world and will have to increase your prices because of credit card fraud. You can't have it both ways.



This incident could have sparked a discussion about important issues that face Bitcoin businesses - employee access, delaying/approving payments and refunds, perhaps the need for some sort of more private network for notifying each other of possible threats we face, etc. I hope it still does, but in the meantime a whole bunch of completely unnecessary FUD was produced surrounding Bitcoin and some of the major Bitcoin businesses.



A relevant story from Mark Cuban:

Quote One day, Martin comes back from Republic Bank, where we had our account. He had just gone through the drive through and one of the tellers who he would see every day dropping of our deposits asked him to wait a second. She comes back and shows him a check that had the payee of a vendor, WHITED OUT and Renee Hardy, our secretarys name typed over it. Turns out that in the course of a single week, our secretary had pulled this same trick on 83k of our 85k in the bank. As Martin delived the news, I obviously was pissed. I was pissed at Renee, I was pissed at the bank, I was pissed at myself for letting it happen. I remember going to the bank with copies of the checks, and the manager of the bank basically laughing me out of his office telling me that I didnt have a pot to piss in. That I could sue him, or whatever I wanted, but I was out the money.



I got back to the office, told Martin what happened at the bank, and then I realized what I had to do about all of this. I had to go back to work. That what was done, was done. That worrying about revenge, getting pissed at the bank, all those Im going to get even and kick your ass thoughtswere basically just a waste of energy. No one was going to cover my obligations but me. I had to get my ass back to work, and do so quickly. Thats exactly what I did.

If the Bitcoin community wants to be taken seriously, Bitcoin businesses better not make that a policy. ...and if the community has nothing better to do than publicly circulate lists of supposed scammers then you're just reinforcing the negative image others try to pin on Bitcoin as only being about scams and we deserve every bit of mockery we get from those outside who see Bitcoin as nothing but.Bitcoin has its benefits and its drawbacks - if you don't see that the benefits are much greater and accept the drawbacks then go back to doing ecommerce with credit cards: you'll be able to correct mistakes in refunds, but you'll also never be able to do business with 95% of the world and will have to increase your prices because of credit card fraud. You can't have it both ways.This incident could have sparked a discussion about important issues that face Bitcoin businesses - employee access, delaying/approving payments and refunds, perhaps the need for some sort of more private network for notifying each other of possible threats we face, etc. I hope it still does, but in the meantime a whole bunch of completely unnecessary FUD was produced surrounding Bitcoin and some of the major Bitcoin businesses.A relevant story from Mark Cuban:

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LegendaryActivity: 1680Merit: 1028 Re: WARNING - Blockchain.info is NOT SAFE December 19, 2012, 09:03:05 PM

Last edit: December 19, 2012, 10:04:43 PM by Rassah #110 Quote from: Bitcoinin on December 19, 2012, 08:45:35 PM If the Bitcoin community wants to be taken seriously, Bitcoin businesses better not make that a policy. ...and if the community has nothing better to do than publicly circulate lists of supposed scammers then you're just reinforcing the negative image others try to pin on Bitcoin as only being about scams and we deserve every bit of mockery we get from those outside who see Bitcoin as nothing but.



The negative image others try to pin on Bitcoin is not that it's only being about scams. The negative image is that Bitcoin is full of scams, and that we either don't ever do anything about it, or run to the police contrary to our free-market beliefs. Regardless of whether asking police for help is hypocritical or not, it is simply not effective on a global scale Bitcoin operates on. So the only solutions we have are 1) whine about it and keep getting scammed, 2) go to the police who ignore us, and keep getting scammed, or 3) live up to the "horrible free-market" ideals we get ridiculed for, and actually take care of the scamming ourselves.



We tried 1 and 2 The negative image others try to pin on Bitcoin is not that it's only being about scams. The negative image is that Bitcoin is full of scams, and that we either don't ever do anything about it, or run to the police contrary to our free-market beliefs. Regardless of whether asking police for help is hypocritical or not, it is simply not effective on a global scale Bitcoin operates on. So the only solutions we have are 1) whine about it and keep getting scammed, 2) go to the police who ignore us, and keep getting scammed, or 3) live up to the "horrible free-market" ideals we get ridiculed for, and actually take care of the scamming ourselves.We tried 1 and 2 https://www.academytoken.com

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LegendaryActivity: 1372Merit: 1001 Re: WARNING - Blockchain.info is NOT SAFE December 19, 2012, 09:12:56 PM #111 Quote from: Rassah on December 19, 2012, 09:03:05 PM Quote from: Bitcoinin on December 19, 2012, 08:45:35 PM If the Bitcoin community wants to be taken seriously, Bitcoin businesses better not make that a policy. ...and if the community has nothing better to do than publicly circulate lists of supposed scammers then you're just reinforcing the negative image others try to pin on Bitcoin as only being about scams and we deserve every bit of mockery we get from those outside who see Bitcoin as nothing but.



tThe negative image others try to pin on Bitcoin is not that it's only being about scams. The negative image is that Bitcoin is full of scams, and that we either don't ever do anything about it, or run to the police contrary to our free-market beliefs. Regardless of whether asking police for help is hypocritical or not, it is simply not effective on a global scale Bitcoin operates on. So the only solutions we have are 1) whine about it and keep getting scammed, 2) go to the police who ignore us, and keep getting scammed, or 3) live up to the "horrible free-market" ideals we get ridiculed for, and actually take care of the scamming ourselves.



We tried 1 and 2

tThe negative image others try to pin on Bitcoin is not that it's only being about scams. The negative image is that Bitcoin is full of scams, and that we either don't ever do anything about it, or run to the police contrary to our free-market beliefs. Regardless of whether asking police for help is hypocritical or not, it is simply not effective on a global scale Bitcoin operates on. So the only solutions we have are 1) whine about it and keep getting scammed, 2) go to the police who ignore us, and keep getting scammed, or 3) live up to the "horrible free-market" ideals we get ridiculed for, and actually take care of the scamming ourselves.We tried 1 and 2 I agree. I think companies taking a strong stand against scamming would INCREASE outsider confidence, not decrease it. We need to do everything we can to get scammers out of Bitcoin business, and if that means making the mess more public than it is, so be it.

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Full MemberActivity: 134Merit: 100 Re: MemoryDealers.com founder Roger Ver abuses admin access at Blockchain.info December 19, 2012, 09:20:08 PM #112



Mr Ver probably should probably acquaint himself with laws and statutes governing data protection in the United States and how it applies to businesses such as his. His self styled 'terms & conditions' will likely count for nothing if the individual named chose to take the issue to a court of law.

It is sad to see BlockChain.info - a superb service - dragged, without merit, into such an display of complete and utter incompetence on the part of the owner of Memory Dealers, Roger Ver. This https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=131574.0 behavior; publicly displaying the details of a private individual and labeling them a criminal would at best seem morally dubious and at worst defamatory.Mr Ver probably should probably acquaint himself with laws and statutes governing data protection in the United States and how it applies to businesses such as his. His self styled 'terms & conditions' will likely count for nothing if the individual named chose to take the issue to a court of law.

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MemberActivity: 69Merit: 10 Re: MemoryDealers.com founder Roger Ver abuses admin access at Blockchain.info December 19, 2012, 09:24:32 PM #113 But this isn't a scam, per se. This is the rough equivalent of getting extra change back on a purchase. Actually, that's exactly what it is. Just because you fuck up does not give you the right to plaster the personal info of the benefit of your fuck up on the internet (especially when your TOS say you won't). A friendly email asking for the bitcoins back is fine but if that doesn't get you anywhere, drop it.



If someone hacks into your system and actively steals from you, that's a different story but there's a hell of a lot of gray area there. BTC: 1AYWtqieXoQZnuT4iEk6MDEXBkdVd5BykN

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Hero MemberActivity: 504Merit: 500WTF??? Re: WARNING - Blockchain.info is NOT SAFE December 19, 2012, 09:44:24 PM #117 Quote from: piuk on December 19, 2012, 04:34:06 PM What has been changed

Roger and the support agent's access to this information has been revoked.

Bitcoin addresses stored for notification purposes have been deleted. Addresses are now stored as a SHA 256 hash of the address, which removes the ability to lookup a wallet by bitcoin address.

The secret phrase is now no longer shown to any admins

What other information could be used to identify a wallet

We store the ip address a wallet was created with and the ip address a wallet was last updated with.

We store the ip address a wallet was created with and the ip address a wallet was last updated with.

Would you consider hashing the IP addresses for privacy? With a secret key, you could easily verify previous access as the creating IP address or the most recent address but could shield privacy further. This was a shock to many people that you save this kind of information when previously it was said that no tracking information was kept. Would you consider hashing the IP addresses for privacy? With a secret key, you could easily verify previous access as the creating IP address or the most recent address but could shield privacy further. This was a shock to many people that you save this kind of information when previously it was said that no tracking information was kept. WTF! Don't Click Here

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

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Mike CaldwellVIPLegendaryActivity: 1386Merit: 1062The Casascius 1oz 10BTC Silver Round (w/ Gold B) Re: MemoryDealers.com founder Roger Ver abuses admin access at Blockchain.info December 19, 2012, 09:46:14 PM #118 Quote from: CharlieContent on December 19, 2012, 09:40:03 PM I completely agree. I think the best thing for Blockchain.info would be to force Roger Ver out.



I'm not sure I see it the same way.



Roger at best made an error in judgment, something I or anybody else could do on account of being human. The activities he engages in to promote Bitcoin paint a much clearer picture of where his interests lie.



For example, everybody knows that the biggest weakness of a "Casascius Coin" is the fact that "Casascius" could know the private key. The answer isn't "push Casascius out", rather, the answer may very well be in the form of bringing affordable two-factor physical bitcoins so the trust footprint can be reduced. That's what will benefit Bitcoin in the long run.



The best thing for Blockchain.info would be to recognize where its soft spots are, and actively work to harden them. Personal information stored on Blockchain a problem? What's better, push Roger out due to public outcry, or release something that makes it more the default to not store personal information on their servers? The second is by far a better long term solution, something Roger would almost certainly agree with, as I can't imagine his involvement and investment is just so he can chase down 4 BTC accidentally sent to his customer. I'm not sure I see it the same way.Roger at best made an error in judgment, something I or anybody else could do on account of being human. The activities he engages in to promote Bitcoin paint a much clearer picture of where his interests lie.For example, everybody knows that the biggest weakness of a "Casascius Coin" is the fact that "Casascius" could know the private key. The answer isn't "push Casascius out", rather, the answer may very well be in the form of bringing affordable two-factor physical bitcoins so the trust footprint can be reduced. That's what will benefit Bitcoin in the long run.The best thing for Blockchain.info would be to recognize where its soft spots are, and actively work to harden them. Personal information stored on Blockchain a problem? What's better, push Roger out due to public outcry, or release something that makes it more the default to not store personal information on their servers? The second is by far a better long term solution, something Roger would almost certainly agree with, as I can't imagine his involvement and investment is just so he can chase down 4 BTC accidentally sent to his customer. Companies claiming they got hacked and lost your coins sounds like fraud so perfect it could be called fashionable. I never believe them. If I ever experience the misfortune of a real intrusion, I declare I have been honest about the way I have managed the keys in Casascius Coins. I maintain no ability to recover or reproduce the keys, not even under limitless duress or total intrusion. Remember that trusting strangers with your coins without any recourse is, as a matter of principle, not a best practice. Don't keep coins online. Use paper or hardware wallets instead.

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LegendaryActivity: 2338Merit: 1730 Re: WARNING - Blockchain.info is NOT SAFE December 19, 2012, 09:50:10 PM #120 Quote from: wtfvanity on December 19, 2012, 09:44:24 PM Quote from: piuk on December 19, 2012, 04:34:06 PM What has been changed

Roger and the support agent's access to this information has been revoked.

Bitcoin addresses stored for notification purposes have been deleted. Addresses are now stored as a SHA 256 hash of the address, which removes the ability to lookup a wallet by bitcoin address.

The secret phrase is now no longer shown to any admins

What other information could be used to identify a wallet

We store the ip address a wallet was created with and the ip address a wallet was last updated with.

We store the ip address a wallet was created with and the ip address a wallet was last updated with.

. . .This was a shock to many people that you save this kind of information when previously it was said that no tracking information was kept.



https://blockchain.info/wallet/anonymity



Quote . . . When notifications are enabled your public keys are inserted in a separate table along with your email, skype handle or google talk username. This mode does sacrifice some Anonymity as we can now see your public keys and view your wallet balance. However just because a wallet contains a public key does not necessarily mean they are the owner of said key (as you can add keys without the respective private key). . .

. . . We log the internet IP address a wallet was created with and the ip the wallet was last updated with . . .



The only shock was that another business managed to access this information, and that has been addressed appropriately. Not a shock to anyone who took the time to read their privacy statement and anonymity information publicly available on their website:The only shock was that another business managed to access this information, and that has been addressed appropriately. https://21.co/dannyhamilton/



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NewbieActivity: 44Merit: 0 Re: WARNING - Blockchain.info is NOT SAFE December 19, 2012, 09:58:52 PM #123 Quote from: Rassah on December 19, 2012, 09:03:05 PM tThe negative image others try to pin on Bitcoin is not that it's only being about scams. The negative image is that Bitcoin is full of scams, and that we either don't ever do anything about it, or run to the police contrary to our free-market beliefs. Regardless of whether asking police for help is hypocritical or not, it is simply not effective on a global scale Bitcoin operates on. So the only solutions we have are 1) whine about it and keep getting scammed, 2) go to the police who ignore us, and keep getting scammed, or 3) live up to the "horrible free-market" ideals we get ridiculed for, and actually take care of the scamming ourselves.



We tried 1 and 2



What was achieved today?



No one was successful in guilting the scammer into returning the money - they still have it. The scammer had their personal information posted publicly on the internet, so now they have a personal vendetta against Bitcoinstore and Bitcoin in general - they'll probably be back to troll Roger and post all over the place about how Bitcoin businesses post your private information which will scare newbies. The scammer wasn't even really a scammer - just a coward who decided to not do the right thing, but is now an active agent against Bitcoin.



Bitcoinstore is still out $60. They'll probably have fewer transactions than they would have from legit customers due to the FUD of what exactly their privacy policy is and whether or not they can be trusted. They also unfortunately look less professional and petty for breaking their own privacy policy over a $60 mistake.



Blockchain.info and other businesses got roped into the same FUD.



Have we prevented any future scamming from happening from this guy? Probably not - the original scammer wasn't ever really a scammer, so the chances of them having tried something in the future were unlikely to begin with. Their personal info is now public (assuming everything was actually theirs) if they did try to scam in the future, but all they need to do is sign up for a free email address and start using their friend's name & street address in the future.



Have we scared other scammers from trying stuff in the future? Probably not - if anything the publicity just emphasizes some of the issues that Bitcoin businesses are wrestling with and is more likely to attract more scammers trying to exploit these issues.



Does the public see the Bitcoin community "cracking down" on scammers and getting the problem under control? Nothing was achieved, so I would doubt it. What was achieved today?No one was successful in guilting the scammer into returning the money - they still have it. The scammer had their personal information posted publicly on the internet, so now they have a personal vendetta against Bitcoinstore and Bitcoin in general - they'll probably be back to troll Roger and post all over the place about how Bitcoin businesses post your private information which will scare newbies. The scammer wasn't even really a scammer - just a coward who decided to not do the right thing, but is now an active agent against Bitcoin.Bitcoinstore is still out $60. They'll probably have fewer transactions than they would have from legit customers due to the FUD of what exactly their privacy policy is and whether or not they can be trusted. They also unfortunately look less professional and petty for breaking their own privacy policy over a $60 mistake.Blockchain.info and other businesses got roped into the same FUD.Have we prevented any future scamming from happening from this guy? Probably not - the original scammer wasn't ever really a scammer, so the chances of them having tried something in the future were unlikely to begin with. Their personal info is now public (assuming everything was actually theirs) if they did try to scam in the future, but all they need to do is sign up for a free email address and start using their friend's name & street address in the future.Have we scared other scammers from trying stuff in the future? Probably not - if anything the publicity just emphasizes some of the issues that Bitcoin businesses are wrestling with and is more likely to attract more scammers trying to exploit these issues.Does the public see the Bitcoin community "cracking down" on scammers and getting the problem under control? Nothing was achieved, so I would doubt it.

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LegendaryActivity: 2338Merit: 1730 Re: WARNING - Blockchain.info is NOT SAFE December 19, 2012, 10:07:02 PM #128 Quote from: Bitcoinin on December 19, 2012, 09:58:52 PM . . . What was achieved today? . . .

At least, blockchain.info has improved their security by removing access from an individual who would otherwise abuse that access when they are frustrated with a customer of their other businesses.



At best, other businesses are hopefully looking into who has access to the information in their databases and making sure that they limit that access appropriately to prevent getting caught up in similar conflict of interest situations in the future.



This is no small thing. Had there not been this "uproar", Roger would still have inappropriate access to that data and could leverage that access against other customers in the future, and other businesses wouldn't have had this "wake up call" to give them an opportunity to review who has access to their data. At least, blockchain.info has improved their security by removing access from an individual who would otherwise abuse that access when they are frustrated with a customer of their other businesses.At best, other businesses are hopefully looking into who has access to the information in their databases and making sure that they limit that access appropriately to prevent getting caught up in similar conflict of interest situations in the future.This is no small thing. Had there not been this "uproar", Roger would still have inappropriate access to that data and could leverage that access against other customers in the future, and other businesses wouldn't have had this "wake up call" to give them an opportunity to review who has access to their data. https://21.co/dannyhamilton/



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LegendaryActivity: 1680Merit: 1028 Re: WARNING - Blockchain.info is NOT SAFE December 19, 2012, 10:24:27 PM #131 Quote from: Bitcoinin on December 19, 2012, 09:58:52 PM What was achieved today?



Quite a few things:



1) Blockchain.info identified a possible software security issue and patched it

2) Blockchain.info identified a situation that may cause a conflict of interest, and resolved it.

3) The community as a whole was made aware of the issues that may arise from conflicts of interest, poorly worded TOS, and public sharing of information.

4) People and business owners got to discuss and brainstorm how to deal with these situations, and have made their own conclusions along with differing alterations to their TOS. Specifically regarding how to deal with private information, whether to share info on suspected scammers amongst other businesses, etc.

5) We got rid of at least one dishonest person. Whether he is a scammer or not (I don't think think he was), what he did want right, and Roger got 100% conclusive evidence of that (blockchain.info's anonymizing addresses are NOT one-time use like the guy claimed).

5a) We maybe have sent out a warning to others that you're not as safe as you think you are, and your specific country's laws may not protect you, so it's best to start maintaining a clean reputation record now. Quite a few things:1) Blockchain.info identified a possible software security issue and patched it2) Blockchain.info identified a situation that may cause a conflict of interest, and resolved it.3) The community as a whole was made aware of the issues that may arise from conflicts of interest, poorly worded TOS, and public sharing of information.4) People and business owners got to discuss and brainstorm how to deal with these situations, and have made their own conclusions along with differing alterations to their TOS. Specifically regarding how to deal with private information, whether to share info on suspected scammers amongst other businesses, etc.5) We got rid of at least one dishonest person. Whether he is a scammer or not (I don't think think he was), what he did want right, and Roger got 100% conclusive evidence of that (blockchain.info's anonymizing addresses are NOT one-time use like the guy claimed).5a) We maybe have sent out a warning to others that you're not as safe as you think you are, and your specific country's laws may not protect you, so it's best to start maintaining a clean reputation record now. https://www.academytoken.com

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Full MemberActivity: 210Merit: 100 Re: MemoryDealers.com founder Roger Ver abuses admin access at Blockchain.info December 19, 2012, 10:30:11 PM #134 Quote from: casascius on December 19, 2012, 09:46:14 PM

I'm not sure I see it the same way.



Roger at best made an error in judgment, something I or anybody else could do on account of being human. The activities he engages in to promote Bitcoin paint a much clearer picture of where his interests lie.



For example, everybody knows that the biggest weakness of a "Casascius Coin" is the fact that "Casascius" could know the private key. The answer isn't "push Casascius out",



Well, of course you couldn't be pushed out, but if you started acting in a devious, unprofessional and untrustworthy way, then no one should buy your coins.



There's an element of trust in every commercial transaction, not just with Bitcoin. Obviously some involve more trust than others, but no matter what, I never do business with untrustworthy people, no matter how secure the system.

Well, of course you couldn't be pushed out, but if you started acting in a devious, unprofessional and untrustworthy way, then no one should buy your coins.There's an element of trust in every commercial transaction, not just with Bitcoin. Obvi