“It was just the two of us sitting there, and he was lamenting the fact that he didn’t get to start,” Gibson said. “And I said to him: ‘That’s good, but do you really realize how important you are to this ball club, being the closer? Do you realize that?’ He just kind of blinked because his mind was set on being a starter, for whatever reason.

“But he’s actually more important to the team than he would be as a starter because he’d pitch once a week, once every four or five days. He’s got a chance to go out every day or every other day and be meaningful to the team. I just explained that to him, and he nodded. He didn’t say anything; he just nodded. But I think he started to understand how important his job is to the ball club.”

Rosenthal mostly listens, Gibson said, trying to absorb whatever he can. Rosenthal said he particularly enjoyed learning why Gibson stood where he did on the rubber — on the far right side against right-handed hitters, to add deception and make the ball look as if it was coming from behind their front shoulder.

Rosenthal, who also cited the Hall of Famer Red Schoendienst, said that as long as some of the Cardinals’ greats were willing to offer their time, he should listen.

“Bob is a guy I didn’t necessarily know a lot about until I was here and got to hear stuff about him and see his stats and the things that he did,” Rosenthal, who did not pitch in the Cardinals’ 6-3 loss to the Chicago Cubs on Saturday, said. “I don’t know if I was really looking for anything; I just tried to open the door for conversations.

“It’s pretty amazing when you start talking to those guys, how much they pay attention to every game that we play. Even Red — they know how I pitch, they pay attention and they really care.”