The Bandit

Sonar Guy

Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 395 Downloads: 39 Uploads: 1

"Omitted American submarines" http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/down...o=file&id=5260



After having a great time with the "Playable Russian Submarines" mod and learning a bit about how its put together, I sat down and created some configs to bring some of my favorite old cold war subs into the game.



The premise I'm working off of is "What US Navy boats could have been available in 1968 or 1984 that were omitted from the game?" Also please note, until something major changes with this game, there will be no way to use anything other than the assets already in the game, therefore MANY OF THESE SUBS WILL USE SOVIET 3d MODELS. That means your GUPPY II is going to look like a Foxtrot, your Skate is going to look like a Romeo and your Seawolf is going to look like a Tango. This may be insurmountable for some but as of yet there isn't any way I can think of that's better.



Fleetboats (all use the Foxtrot model) all circa 1968 except Tunny

Gato class Auxiliary (basically left over from the Migraine SSR program)

Tunny SSG (Regulus I boat)

Gato class SSK

Balao class "Fleetboat snorkel"

Balao "SSK"

Balao class LPSS (USS Sealion and Perch, amphib / SEAL haulers)

Tench class "Fleetboat snorkel"

Guppy IA/IIA (both Balao and Tench variants)

Guppy II (both Balao and Tench Variants)

Guppy III (both Balao and Tench variants)



I included both Balao and Tench variations to reflect the minor differences in the Tench i.e weapons capacity, diving depth (improved hull) and so on.



Diesel boats

Tang class (1968)

Barracuda class (1968) (Whiskey model)

Barbel class (68 and 84) (Skipjack model)

Sailfish class SSR

Greyback class

Darter class



Nuke boats

Tullibee class SSN (1968) (Permit model)

Tullibee class SSN (1984)

Glenard P. Lipscomb class SSN (Sturgeon model)

Triton class SSRN (in SSN configuration circa 1968) (November model)

Skate class SSN (1968) (Romeo model)

USS Nautilus SSN (special thanks to Leopard Driver for the config)

Skate class SSN (1984)

Halibut class SSN (1968) (Juliet model)

Seawolf (SSN-575) class SSN (1968) (Tango model)

Seawolf Special Projects SSN (1984)

Ethan Allen class SSN ("slow attack / SEAL Delivery) (Yankee model)

Los Angeles class SSN "Flight 0" (initial configuration lacking TB-16 and Harpoon / Tomahawk)

Los Angeles class SSN "Flight 2" VLS (12 VLS tubes, slightly more powerful reactor, Anechoic coating)

Jack "class" SSN (1968 and 84) (longer permit with contra-rotating screws)

Permit "Long Hull" class SSN (68 and 84) (Sturgeon model)

Sturgeon "Long Hull" class SSN (84) (Sturgeon model)

Skipjack "5B" SSN (historical, as completed with 5 blade prop, faster speed but noisy)



Boomers (all use Yankee class model)

George Washington class

Ethan Allen class

Lafayette class (68 and 84)

Benjamin Franklin class (68 and 84)



Hypotheticals

Thresher class SSN (historical, as completed with 5 blade prop, faster speed but noisy)

Astoria class SSGN (APHNAS / CMS hypothetical design of the 1970s) (688 model)

Thomas A. Edison class SSGN (hypothetical projected Ethan Allen SSGN conversion)

Eel class SSN (hypothetical CONFORM design of late 60s early 70s) (Alfa model)

Orca class SSN (hypothetical CONFORM Flight 2, mid 80s)

Redfish class SSN (hypothetical FAS affordable SSN program, late 70s)

Permit class SSGN (improved Halibut)





W.I.P

I'd like to see if there's a way to get SEAL teams aboard some of the transport boats without removing their entire armament. Ultimately I may get into some campaign work specifically for these boats to make them be used more frequently for special ops.



Also a warning, when you play as some of these boats, prepare to be FRUSTRATED. Many of them have the same sensor suite as the Skipjack class with none of its positive attributes (Speed and maneuverability). Basically in many ways you'll get to see why these boats were considered "second-line". For all that though, speaking from my own point of view, I've also found the experience of playing these boats to be both challenging and rewarding.



What I would advise most people to do for fun, pick either campaign and just try a random boat, see how long you can survive and if you can learn the "ins and outs" / peculiarities of each class. I've had a lot of fun with the USS Tullibee as long as you play to its strengths.



Also included are a few new sensors (AN/BQR-4, AN/BQG-4 PUFFS, AN/BQR-21, AN/BQH-5) to roughly approximate the capabilities of some of these boats (PUFFS is kind of a hard one because I can't really do anything to make localization better without upping its detection range) and the inclusion of Mk 37 variants and a very compromised Mk 45.



Weapons featured

Mk 37 mod 0 (acoustic homing torpedo, no wire)

Mk 37 mod 1 (wire guided, 750 yard detection range)

Mk 37 mod 2 (basically the standard one you all know, featured an improved piezoelectric transducer for increased detection range of 1000 yards vs older)

Mk 37 mod 3 (mod 2 but with no wire)

Mk 37C (forerunner to the NT37 program, otto-fueled 36 knot speed, 10,000 yard range and improved seeker, was being tested in 1968 but was not favored over the eventual Mk 48 which was going to be much more capable.)



Mk 45 ASTOR (Sadly this one won't go boom like a real one, but what it does give you is a wire-guided 40 knot torpedo with a 15,000 yard range and no guidance besides the wire so you've got to walk it all the way home. While obviously the real weapon didn't have to be anywhere near as precise with a 4500 yard kill range, this at least gives the player a similar sort of experience of having to guide the torpedo to its target.)



UGM-89A/UGM-89C STAM

Ship and Land attack Perseus Submarine TActical Missiles. This is the missile program that goes along with the APHNAS / CMS program for a 20 tube VLS SSGN which in some was would have been like an american answer to the Oscar class. This missile was canceled along with the rest of the program because, unlike Tomahawk, it could not fit in a standard torpedo tube so could only have been used by subs built for or retro-fitted with 30" VLS tubes.



UUM-89B PSOW

Perseus Anti-Submarine StandOff Weapon. This would have been a SUBROC type replacement which would have carried the Mk 49 torpedo.



UUM-84 Tarpon

Hypothetical ASW missile based off of the Harpoon. Carries a Mk 46 torpedo.



UUM-44B SUBROC

Hypothetical conventional model which was canceled in the mid 60s. Mk 44 torpedo payload.



Mk 49 Torpedo

Basically a truncated MK 48 shortened to fit the Perseus missile. While bigger than the standard 12.75" air dropped torps like Mk 46, it has a bigger warhead and a longer range.



Mk 46 Torpedo

Early-mid 60s air-dropped or surface launched ASW torpedo. Otto fuel 40 knot speed



Mk 44 torpedo

1950s era ASW torpedo, electric power 30 knot speed.



Known issues

Diesel/Electric subs going faster than they should: I have seen this a few times where a sub that shouldn't be capable of it is traveling around at 18 knot underwater because it can do that on the surface. May look at lowering surface speeds. This excess speed may be related to the campaign map speed bug.



Test depth isn't "right" on some boats: You may notice that some of the GUPPYs have their TD a bit deeper than reality (500-550 feet). The main reason I have done this is to reflect the true capabilities of these subs. In a few notable cases fleet boats descended past 1000 feet (i.e. USS Chopper, but in all fairness Chopper never sailed again) so it can be done.



Weapons sprites look like they were made in MS Paint: That's because they were, and I'm very proud of them. Seriously for as bad as these look I was trying to simulate the type of "weapon tags" I'd imagine they'd have on a board somewhere in the torpedo room to keep track of what's loaded where.



No unique damage control charts : This is something I'd like to try to address going forward but for now, every submarine uses either a chart that came with the game (say for the 688 for Permit for example) or one of CaptainX3's that he's made for his russian boats. I can't thank him enough for both the work he's done and for allowing me to base my mod from his.



UPDATES

Update 1.1 7/10/2017:

Removed 3rd screw from boats based on Foxtrot and Tango models

Added UGM-89A/B/C Perseus STAM for Astoria class SSGN

Added Barracuda class SSK

Added Tang class SS

Added Halibut class SSN

Added Single Missions

Rationalized sensors.txt and weapons.txt



Update 1.2 7/12/2017:

Re-balanced the noise settings for various boats (including soviet subs)

Added Barbel class (68 and 84) along with BLQ-2B towed array sonar

Added hypothetical Eel class based on CONFORM program

Added hypothetical / historic Thresher class, reflecting increased noise/speed

Split Permit and Sturgeon classes into their sub-class variants.

Changed UGM-89B PSOW ASW weapon to UUM-89B

Added optional campaign files which remove hypothetical units

Changed Ethan Allen class from Sturgeon to Yankee class model



Update 1.3 7/13/2017

Forgot to include the soviet submarines with modified (lowered noise levels)

Increased the noise levels on Fleetboats to make them louder than Whiskey class.



Update 1.4 7/15/2017

Changed props for several ships (Jack, Eel, Ethan Allen, Thresher)

Added historic Skipjack 1968 5B (five-bladed screw)

Added Orca class hypothetical SSN (CONFORM Flight 2)

Changed available Sturgeon-68 units to reflect the boats in service as of December 68

Altered Barracuda class so they can no longer control wire-guided torpedoes due to equipped FC system

Re balanced silencing on Soviet Units, should now see a very pronounced difference between first (arguably Victor I/Charlie and earlier) and second generation (Victor II and later) designs.



Update 1.5

-more re-balancing

-added 4 and 5 blade screws to the GUPPYs and Fleetboats as well as Tang.



Update 1.6

New update is on the way.

-Added towed array (BQR-25) to the Skate class (1984)

-Added Sailfish class SS (former SSR)

-Added Greyback class LPSS (former SSG)

-4 and 5 blade props added to various other subs (mostly older GUPPY/Fleeboat)

-using mast data from PRS Mod, all masts and periscopes should now be visible

-changed Barbel, Skipjack (68 / 5B) and Thresher to use the Skipjack 5 blade screw (Thanks again Julhelm!)



Update 1.7 7/31/2017

Added "41 for Freedom" boomers

Added USS Nautilus (thanks to LeopardDriver)

Added George Washington class SSN

Added Redfish SSN (hypothetical FAS project for cheaper 688 alternative)

Changed many textures just to make the subs look a bit different from their Soviet counterparts. Made subs appear a bit darker.

Added several new weapons (UUM-44, UUM-84)



1.8

-MK 37 torpedo overhaul, lowered noise levels to prevent subs from hearing torpedoes in their baffles. Throughout testing they still hear them from other angles though so all seems good.

-Overhauled and added a few sensors (like BQR-15)

-Added many improved models made by Leopard Driver using available CW assets (Tang, Darter, Greyback, Halibut, Skate, Sailfish, Tullibee, Barbel, Glenard P. Lipscomb, all included SSBNs)

-new hypothetical "Permit-class SSGN"

-new Tunny SSG

-Regulus I and II cruise missiles.





I welcome any and all input anybody can give, especially in regards to some of the specifics on older boats. After having a great time with the "Playable Russian Submarines" mod and learning a bit about how its put together, I sat down and created some configs to bring some of my favorite old cold war subs into the game.The premise I'm working off of is "?" Also please note, until something major changes with this game, there will be no way to use anything other than the assets already in the game, therefore. That means your GUPPY II is going to look like a Foxtrot, your Skate is going to look like a Romeo and your Seawolf is going to look like a Tango. This may be insurmountable for some but as of yet there isn't any way I can think of that's better.Fleetboats (all use the Foxtrot model) all circa 1968 except TunnyGato class Auxiliary (basically left over from the Migraine SSR program)Tunny SSG (Regulus I boat)Gato class SSKBalao class "Fleetboat snorkel"Balao "SSK"Balao class LPSS (USS Sealion and Perch, amphib / SEAL haulers)Tench class "Fleetboat snorkel"Guppy IA/IIA (both Balao and Tench variants)Guppy II (both Balao and Tench Variants)Guppy III (both Balao and Tench variants)I included both Balao and Tench variations to reflect the minor differences in the Tench i.e weapons capacity, diving depth (improved hull) and so on.Diesel boatsTang class (1968)Barracuda class (1968) (Whiskey model)Barbel class (68 and 84) (Skipjack model)Sailfish class SSRGreyback classDarter classNuke boatsTullibee class SSN (1968) (Permit model)Tullibee class SSN (1984)Glenard P. Lipscomb class SSN (Sturgeon model)Triton class SSRN (in SSN configuration circa 1968) (November model)Skate class SSN (1968) (Romeo model)USS Nautilus SSN (special thanks to Leopard Driver for the config)Skate class SSN (1984)Halibut class SSN (1968) (Juliet model)Seawolf (SSN-575) class SSN (1968) (Tango model)Seawolf Special Projects SSN (1984)Ethan Allen class SSN ("slow attack / SEAL Delivery) (Yankee model)Los Angeles class SSN "Flight 0" (initial configuration lacking TB-16 and Harpoon / Tomahawk)Los Angeles class SSN "Flight 2" VLS (12 VLS tubes, slightly more powerful reactor, Anechoic coating)Jack "class" SSN (1968 and 84) (longer permit with contra-rotating screws)Permit "Long Hull" class SSN (68 and 84) (Sturgeon model)Sturgeon "Long Hull" class SSN (84) (Sturgeon model)Skipjack "5B" SSN (historical, as completed with 5 blade prop, faster speed but noisy)Boomers (all use Yankee class model)George Washington classEthan Allen classLafayette class (68 and 84)Benjamin Franklin class (68 and 84)HypotheticalsThresher class SSN (historical, as completed with 5 blade prop, faster speed but noisy)Astoria class SSGN (APHNAS / CMS hypothetical design of the 1970s) (688 model)Thomas A. Edison class SSGN (hypothetical projected Ethan Allen SSGN conversion)Eel class SSN (hypothetical CONFORM design of late 60s early 70s) (Alfa model)Orca class SSN (hypothetical CONFORM Flight 2, mid 80s)Redfish class SSN (hypothetical FAS affordable SSN program, late 70s)Permit class SSGN (improved Halibut)W.I.PI'd like to see if there's a way to get SEAL teams aboard some of the transport boats without removing their entire armament. Ultimately I may get into some campaign work specifically for these boats to make them be used more frequently for special ops.Also a warning, when you play as some of these boats, prepare to be FRUSTRATED. Many of them have the same sensor suite as the Skipjack class with none of its positive attributes (Speed and maneuverability). Basically in many ways you'll get to see why these boats were considered "second-line". For all that though, speaking from my own point of view, I've also found the experience of playing these boats to be both challenging and rewarding.What I would advise most people to do for fun, pick either campaign and just try a random boat, see how long you can survive and if you can learn the "ins and outs" / peculiarities of each class. I've had a lot of fun with the USS Tullibee as long as you play to its strengths.Also included are a few new sensors (AN/BQR-4, AN/BQG-4 PUFFS, AN/BQR-21, AN/BQH-5) to roughly approximate the capabilities of some of these boats (PUFFS is kind of a hard one because I can't really do anything to make localization better without upping its detection range) and the inclusion of Mk 37 variants and a very compromised Mk 45.Weapons featuredMk 37 mod 0 (acoustic homing torpedo, no wire)Mk 37 mod 1 (wire guided, 750 yard detection range)Mk 37 mod 2 (basically the standard one you all know, featured an improved piezoelectric transducer for increased detection range of 1000 yards vs older)Mk 37 mod 3 (mod 2 but with no wire)Mk 37C (forerunner to the NT37 program, otto-fueled 36 knot speed, 10,000 yard range and improved seeker, was being tested in 1968 but was not favored over the eventual Mk 48 which was going to be much more capable.)Mk 45 ASTOR (Sadly this one won't go boom like a real one, but what it does give you is a wire-guided 40 knot torpedo with a 15,000 yard range and no guidance besides the wire so you've got to walk it all the way home. While obviously the real weapon didn't have to be anywhere near as precise with a 4500 yard kill range, this at least gives the player a similar sort of experience of having to guide the torpedo to its target.)UGM-89A/UGM-89C STAMShip and Land attack Perseus Submarine TActical Missiles. This is the missile program that goes along with the APHNAS / CMS program for a 20 tube VLS SSGN which in some was would have been like an american answer to the Oscar class. This missile was canceled along with the rest of the program because, unlike Tomahawk, it could not fit in a standard torpedo tube so could only have been used by subs built for or retro-fitted with 30" VLS tubes.UUM-89B PSOWPerseus Anti-Submarine StandOff Weapon. This would have been a SUBROC type replacement which would have carried the Mk 49 torpedo.UUM-84 TarponHypothetical ASW missile based off of the Harpoon. Carries a Mk 46 torpedo.UUM-44B SUBROCHypothetical conventional model which was canceled in the mid 60s. Mk 44 torpedo payload.Mk 49 TorpedoBasically a truncated MK 48 shortened to fit the Perseus missile. While bigger than the standard 12.75" air dropped torps like Mk 46, it has a bigger warhead and a longer range.Mk 46 TorpedoEarly-mid 60s air-dropped or surface launched ASW torpedo. Otto fuel 40 knot speedMk 44 torpedo1950s era ASW torpedo, electric power 30 knot speed.: I have seen this a few times where a sub that shouldn't be capable of it is traveling around at 18 knot underwater because it can do that on the surface. May look at lowering surface speeds. This excess speed may be related to the campaign map speed bug.: You may notice that some of the GUPPYs have their TD a bit deeper than reality (500-550 feet). The main reason I have done this is to reflect the true capabilities of these subs. In a few notable cases fleet boats descended past 1000 feet (i.e. USS Chopper, but in all fairness Chopper never sailed again) so it can be done.: That's because they were, and I'm very proud of them. Seriously for as bad as these look I was trying to simulate the type of "weapon tags" I'd imagine they'd have on a board somewhere in the torpedo room to keep track of what's loaded where.: This is something I'd like to try to address going forward but for now, every submarine uses either a chart that came with the game (say for the 688 for Permit for example) or one of CaptainX3's that he's made for his russian boats. I can't thank him enough for both the work he's done and for allowing me to base my mod from his.Update 1.1 7/10/2017:Removed 3rd screw from boats based on Foxtrot and Tango modelsAdded UGM-89A/B/C Perseus STAM for Astoria class SSGNAdded Barracuda class SSKAdded Tang class SSAdded Halibut class SSNAdded Single MissionsRationalized sensors.txt and weapons.txtUpdate 1.2 7/12/2017:Re-balanced the noise settings for various boats (including soviet subs)Added Barbel class (68 and 84) along with BLQ-2B towed array sonarAdded hypothetical Eel class based on CONFORM programAdded hypothetical / historic Thresher class, reflecting increased noise/speedSplit Permit and Sturgeon classes into their sub-class variants.Changed UGM-89B PSOW ASW weapon to UUM-89BAdded optional campaign files which remove hypothetical unitsChanged Ethan Allen class from Sturgeon to Yankee class modelUpdate 1.3 7/13/2017Forgot to include the soviet submarines with modified (lowered noise levels)Increased the noise levels on Fleetboats to make them louder than Whiskey class.Update 1.4 7/15/2017Changed props for several ships (Jack, Eel, Ethan Allen, Thresher)Added historic Skipjack 1968 5B (five-bladed screw)Added Orca class hypothetical SSN (CONFORM Flight 2)Changed available Sturgeon-68 units to reflect the boats in service as of December 68Altered Barracuda class so they can no longer control wire-guided torpedoes due to equipped FC systemRe balanced silencing on Soviet Units, should now see a very pronounced difference between first (arguably Victor I/Charlie and earlier) and second generation (Victor II and later) designs.Update 1.5-more re-balancing-added 4 and 5 blade screws to the GUPPYs and Fleetboats as well as Tang.Update 1.6New update is on the way.-Added towed array (BQR-25) to the Skate class (1984)-Added Sailfish class SS (former SSR)-Added Greyback class LPSS (former SSG)-4 and 5 blade props added to various other subs (mostly older GUPPY/Fleeboat)-using mast data from PRS Mod, all masts and periscopes should now be visible-changed Barbel, Skipjack (68 / 5B) and Thresher to use the Skipjack 5 blade screw (Thanks again Julhelm!)Update 1.7 7/31/2017Added "41 for Freedom" boomersAdded USS Nautilus (thanks to LeopardDriver)Added George Washington class SSNAdded Redfish SSN (hypothetical FAS project for cheaper 688 alternative)Changed many textures just to make the subs look a bit different from their Soviet counterparts. Made subs appear a bit darker.Added several new weapons (UUM-44, UUM-84)1.8-MK 37 torpedo overhaul, lowered noise levels to prevent subs from hearing torpedoes in their baffles. Throughout testing they still hear them from other angles though so all seems good.-Overhauled and added a few sensors (like BQR-15)-Added many improved models made by Leopard Driver using available CW assets (Tang, Darter, Greyback, Halibut, Skate, Sailfish, Tullibee, Barbel, Glenard P. Lipscomb, all included SSBNs)-new hypothetical "Permit-class SSGN"-new Tunny SSG-Regulus I and II cruise missiles.I welcome any and all input anybody can give, especially in regards to some of the specifics on older boats.

__________________ Last edited by The Bandit; 08-31-2017 at 11:04 AM .