Mark Colvin reported this story on Tuesday, February 22, 2011 18:34:00

MARK COLVIN: Dr Mansour El-Kikhia is an exiled Libyan opposition leader who's currently associate professor of political science at the University of Texas at San Antonio.



He left Libya in 1980, after witnessing his countrymen being murdered, tortured and abused. His brother was also killed by the Gaddafi regime. He says the regime's tried to kill him three times and he's received death threats from the regime over the last few days, warning him to stop speaking out



Among other things, he told me that despite the violence, Italy was still providing Libya with resources and training.



MANSOUR EL-KIKHIA: Berlusconi is despicable in this case. Why would you send equipment to fight people during a time of crisis when you shouldn't be doing that? But Berlusconi is like that. Berlusconi has no morals, he has no integrity, that's the truth.



MARK COLVIN: What has he sent?



MANSOUR EL-KIKHIA: Well he sent a load of anti-riot gear, a shipment of anti-riot gear and advises to Gaddafi how to combat them. How to combat the rioters.



MARK COLVIN: When?



MANSOUR EL-KIKHIA: Today. This morning I got a call from my source in Cairo and they were in contact with some people in Tripoli who actually physically saw the chap, these people come down.



MARK COLVIN: Do Berlusconi and Gaddafi have a particularly good relationship?



MANSOUR EL-KIKHIA: An extremely good relationship. Very, very good relationship. In fact, even more so I think Gaddafi is the big investor in Berlusconi's businesses and they have been very good friends since Berlusconi came to power.



Berlusconi apologies to Gaddafi for Italian colonialism. A treaty was signed between him and Berlusconi for Libya to become the watchdog for African immigration to Europe, illegal African immigration to Europe.



MARK COLVIN: From your vantage point, what do you think is happening at the moment in Tripoli?



MANSOUR EL-KIKHIA: Not much is taking place in the centre of the city. What's happening is on the outskirts. This is where heavy fighting is taking place and heavy bombing and heavy shooting is taking place. The security forces, the mercenaries are actually encircled the area and they're telling people if you just move we'll shoot you and yet people are moving out and they're dodging bullets.



MARK COLVIN: You say these people are mercenaries, these soldiers; where are they from?



MANSOUR EL-KIKHIA: Well mostly they're coming actually from Chad and from West Africa. These are the African legions that Gaddafi has bought and trained in Libya and he was planning to use them for his adventures in Africa.



MARK COLVIN: How do you know that they are mercenaries?



MANSOUR EL-KIKHIA: Well because they're been paid $17,000 a head.



MARK COLVIN: How do you know that though?



MANSOUR EL-KIKHIA: Well from the people who've caught a whole number of them and they're under interrogation now. They caught them in Benghazi, a large number of them and they actually said that; they said we're being paid this much money, they don't speak Arabic they speak French and they are part of the African legion which Gaddafi has in fact been training in Libya for some time now.



MARK COLVIN: Are they under the command though of senior Libyan generals?



MANSOUR EL-KIKHIA: No, no they're not actually, believe it or not they're under the command of Gaddafi's youngest child, Khamis.



MARK COLVIN: How many people do you think have been killed, by...?



MANSOUR EL-KIKHIA: I know this afternoon I just called a cousin over there and he said 26 died this afternoon and an untold number of wounded. So obviously I mean this is on the low side.



The network is closed but we have a system where we actually provide existing systems through a variety of ways to bypass this and we pass information from one part of Tripoli to another part of Tripoli.



But the information is that they're in dire need of blood and dire need of medical equipment. And there are so many wounded in the streets, dead in the streets which they can't pick up because every time they want to pick up the snipers shoot them.



MARK COLVIN: I've seen calls for the international community, for the European Union for instance to do more; what should they do?



MANSOUR EL-KIKHIA: The truth is, the only thing they can do is threaten Gaddafi with punishment if he doesn't stop. That means they would consider him a war criminal and they would put him in the same place that they put Taylor and Milosevic and all the others.



But I don't know if Gaddafi is going to really care. The truth is he's a coward; we just saw him out this evening, coming out, he showed his face and then hid away.



MARK COLVIN: Do you think eastern Libya is now gone or could the government forces take it back?



MANSOUR EL-KIKHIA: Well right now I mean eastern Libya is free and they're cherishing their freedom, they're celebrating with each other this great victory. I don't think Gaddafi has the manpower or the ability to take it back again and I think right now what he's worrying about is trying to save his neck where he is.



MARK COLVIN: And what do you think the chances are that in Tripoli and the rest of Libya that they will be able to overthrow him?



MANSOUR EL-KIKHIA: They'll get the better of him, that I promise you. They'll overthrow him and he'll be out. He'll be out and his regime will be put in the dustbin of history; that's a promise.



MARK COLVIN: Dr Mansour El-Kikhia on the line from Texas.