John Wildhack and Herman Frazier

While Herman Frazier, a senior deputy AD, oversees the football scheduling day-to-day, the athletic director and football coach largely set the parameters of overall philosophy.

(Stephen D. Cannerelli | scannerelli@syracuse.com)

Syracuse, N.Y. -- The list runs 20-30 schools deep and is constantly evolving, a compilation of what Herman Frazier calls the "soup du jour" when piecing together future Syracuse football schedules.

The contents of this list mostly remain confidential. In the ultra-secretive cosmos of college football, paranoia even stretches to scheduling, largely because several schools want the same opponents, and that's just the way business gets done when dealing with six- and seven-figure contract negotiations.

What is known about this list, though, is that it is congruent with the scheduling philosophy adopted by athletic director John Wildhack and head coach Dino Babers over the last year.

It is the main framework Frazier works off when beginning scheduling negotiations. Some schools on the list come from a private subscription-based service Frazier utilizes that grants him access to which schools may or may not be available on a certain date. Not every school uses the service, so Frazier must also lean on his relationships built over decades in the industry and others' within the administration and football program.

Rutgers is on the list.

So is Penn State and Navy.

But most of Frazier's focus now is on the list of schools from the Group of Five leagues (AAC, MAC, Conference USA, Sun Belt and Mountain West) to fill the remaining open slots on future schedules.

In most cases, we're only talking about one or two games per season over the next decade.

"I will take a look at all those teams and then I will make contacts with them through telephone calls or emails," Frazier said, "and then once I decide who may be available on certain dates that we think fit within the fold, then we'll have those discussions."

Negotiations can get done in as quicky as two weeks or take as long as two months. Discussions tend to heat up around this time of year as the academic calendar is in summer mode. Recently, SU announced two nonconference series (Liberty in 2019-2021 and Western Michigan in 2018-19).

While Frazier, a senior deputy AD, oversees the football scheduling day-to-day, the athletic director and football coach largely set the parameters of overall philosophy. Since Wildhack and Babers teammed up, there has been a shift in this philosophy to balance an annually challenging ACC schedule with less-challenging nonconference games.

Frazier and Wildhack sat down with syracuse.com/The Post-Standard for a 50-minute discussion revealing details of football scheduling. The following Q&A has been edited for brevity.

Given the fluidity of the head coaching position here and the administration here over the last couple years, how challenging has it been to lock in on an scheduling philosophy?

Frazier: "To be honest with you, it evolves, so it all depends on what the head coach wants to do, what the athletics director wants to do and then we will have discussions about all of that. There are a lot of emails. There are a lot of telephone calls. The one good thing about it is we haven't been locked up too many years out, so it gave us some flexibility to make adjustments from Doug Marrone to Scott (Shafer) to Dino.

"Having said that, with the television contract that's coming on with ESPN, there's a little bit more say from the conference offices on which weekends we use. Before, we would try to get all the nonconference games in a row in September and then allow the conference to then pick up from there and go forward. Now with the television contract and certain weekends being available, there's a little bit more work that we have to do to make sure whoever we're having discussions with can fit into the holes that we will be provided from the conference.

Wildhack: "What drives that is the ACC Network when that launches in August 2019. We're going to need high-quality inventory at the launch of the network, similar to what the SEC Network did when that launched. You're not necessarily going to go Weeks 1-4 nonconference and then have your run of eight conference games."

Do you have a gauge on how many conference games could be scheduled in September?

Wildhack: "Not yet decided, but I think when you look at the network coming online, I think you'll see more teams play multiple conference games in September."

As long as the ACC lets you, you're probably going to have an FCS game. Fair to say that?

Wildhack: "I wouldn't put that in stone per se, but I think it's likely."

With the Power-Five mandate*, correct me if I'm wrong, but I would think a game against Maryland is more preferable than a game against LSU at this point?

Wildhack: You want competitive balance and when we can play a team geographically that is a fit for it. We've played Maryland a bunch, and Army counts as a Power Five. We've got four games with them, so I think that's clearly part of our philosophy."

*One nonconference game must be against a Power-Five opponent or select independent, such as Notre Dame, BYU or Army. Syracuse has met its Power-Five mandate through the 2026 season.

Can you explain why the LSU series was scheduled at that time? In my mind, you were coming off the Texas Bowl win. Maybe you felt the program would've been in a position to be a little bit more competitive in this particular juncture.

Frazier: Everybody did, including the head coach at the time. When you look at the LSU game that was scheduled, not only did we look at that game for what it was going to do for our program and knowing there was going to be a year in between the follow-up game. The other thing we look at is quality of opponents at home, so therefore I think you check the box with that LSU game.

"If I can also recall, it was pretty doggone good for the community. I think that's one all the elected officials, the university as a whole, everybody embraced that game. LSU travels. I think they took 7,500 tickets, and for us that was huge. The previous administration and the coaching staff thought that was awesome for us to do that."

Wisconsin travels, too, and it's located in a region the staff recruits in. Is that enough to overpower it's a top 15 program right now?

Frazier: "Keep in mind when you schedule these games far in advance, you have no idea who is going to be in the top 25, and I believe Wisconsin, when that game was signed, they might have been top 20. They even had a coaching change or two since that time. That's a roll of the dice. At the end of the day this is an inexact science. You try to do what you think is best for your program and where it is in that particular time."

How much forecasting do you do when you put together the nonconference schedule? For instance, when you scheduled that South Florida series (in 2014) it was in the basement. It was 2-10. Willie (Taggart) was struggling in the beginning, and then sure enough when you guys get it on the schedule is when it starts to turn around.

Wildhack: "That's always part of the unknown. When you're doing something four, five years out or sometimes even longer, you don't know."

To what degree do you do it?

Wildhack: "You schedule LSU, you're naturally getting a top 15 opponent. Wisconsin, even with the coaching changes, pretty consistent run they've had the past 20 years since Barry (Alvarez) got them good back in the '90s. You can project with some degree of accuracy. South Florida is an example where it's hard to project."

Do you look at the people at that institution versus the name on the front of the jersey? In other words would you be more inclined to look at, say, Tennessee based on who is coaching them versus what Tennessee can become?

Frazier: "Not really. If you had a crystal ball, every game you schedule you want to win. Having said that, we took a leap early on, if you remember, when we played Missouri. And we played Missouri at Missouri when Doug was here. There was a hole in the schedule, and we had to get a game in the last minute.

"We got Missouri because I came in here and told (Daryl) Gross, I think we can get Missouri. They had just gone into the SEC, and it was either one or two years in advance that we signed them. And Missouri needed to win that game to get a bowl. We also needed a quality win, and that's what we got to propel us into the Pinstripe Bowl that year.

"Sometimes you get lucky. You just don't know. You don't play against personnel. You play against what you think is best for your program and what it can do to help you with your program."

John, you've referenced a desire to schedule some traditional regional rivalries. Rutgers and West Virginia are two more. Has there been an effort to get them on the schedule? Has there been resistance by them for one reason or another?

Frazier: "No resistance. And they're on our list. We can say that to you."

West Virginia?

Frazier: "Have not had any conversations with West Virginia."

Wildhack: "But it'd be a school we'd be open to because it does fit the criteria."

How will a typical negotiation work with a Group of Five school?

Frazier: "It all depends on what we're looking for and how we can balance it. Therefore, as I look at whatever holes we may have, I'll come in here and say to John, 'Here's what we have in 2018, 2019, 2020 and 2021.' Here is what we think we can get, and then we'll talk about guarantees. We're talk about years. And then I do the day-to-day negotiating on how we come to close on it. Then when we get real, real close, I'll come in and say, 'I think we're at this point.' And then we just go back and forth."

What types of things are under negotiation other than years and venue?

Frazier: "They're just guarantees on the side."

How do financials work for a home and home?

Frazier: "You're able to negotiate that. I've never not been able to sign a game based on numbers. And that's no matter where I've been."

Will you ever request more when you schedule a team like Maryland or Wisconsin versus, say, West Virginia?

Frazier: "I couldn't answer that. All I can tell you is when we went to Missori, we got a nice payout. And it was one game, and we only went there, so you're going to have to pay me for that."

There are a ton of Group of Five teams out there. How do you prioritize which ones are higher up on your list? What are the driving factors?

Frazier: "We might go to coach and say, 'Of these schools, where do you think you're going to be in the next couple years trying to get recruits?' Then we'll decide on a Florida versus a Virginia."

Wildhack: "I think with Liberty and them moving up, there was an opportunity for us to get that done. It is an area we recruit. Obviously our alumni in Washington, it's drivable for them. Really it was an example of we moved quick on that. Literally the day it was announced they were moving up, Herm and I talked, and I called Dino. Liberty moved up and I told him we're in a position we can move quick, and he said, 'I like it,' and Herm worked his magic."

Are there games or areas that are off the radar right now? Will you have any incentive to play in the Mountain Time Zone?

Frazier: UCLA called me twice and Arizona State called me, but we're not there yet. We need to focus on some of the regional schools we just talked about. It makes no sense for us right now to go to UCLA. It makes no sense for us to go to Tempe. I'd like to, but it makes no sense for us right now.

From a competitive standpoint? From a recruiting standpoint?

Frazier: "They wanted it sooner, and right now I'm further out. Until we get to the point, which I would say is our next cycle, then maybe we can look at something like that, but right now we're not prepared for it."

What are some things Dino will have input on? What are some of his suggestions?

Wildhack: "Part of it is the overall philosophy. And you mention MAC and AAC and Sun Belt. They are areas we recruit. This all passes the logic test."

What are some thing he'll veto?

Frazier: "He hasn't vetoed anything that I've brought up since John has been here."

Wildhack: "Part of that goes back to the overall philosophy. Before I start doing something, I want to make sure that coach, Herm and I are locked as one and that eliminates you getting into a situation where the head coach comes to the AD and says, 'I don't want to play so and so.' There are no surprises here.

Division realignment. Will it ever happen?

Wildhack: "I don't anticipate it. You need a majority decision. I have not received any calls from athletic directors in the other division asking me if I want to swap.

Is the best bet if Notre Dame has to join the league?

Wildhack: "I think Notre Dame joining for football, for me, that's off the table."

That might upset a lot of people.

Wildhack: "That's the reality of it. I think when the ACC made the agreement to bring Notre Dame in as a member, I think the ACC accepeted Notre Dame knowing Notre Dame is going to retain their independence for football. Kind of the middle ground was play five ACC teams per year, which is what they do and why they show up on our rotation."

Why are there no neutral site games are on the schedule?

Frazier: "No neutral site games that would've been home games for us, no. That's not to say if some school out west says, 'hey, we'll meet you down south, we'll move our game someplace,' I think we would entertain that. But any game that we would have that would normally be here, at this point we're not moving out of the Dome.

Wildhack: "I'm not interested in taking home games and moving them out of the Dome. We could be a road opponent, and if Central Michigan said we want to play at Ford Field, as an example, that could happen.

"The other thing down the road, when we get to where we want to be, where we aspire to, then we may be in the conversation for the Labor Day Weekend neutral-site games. But those are pure neutral-site games."

How often do you get the games you want?

Frazier: "99.9 percent, we get what we want."

Really? I feel like rebuilding progams would want to schedule the same schools?

Frazier: "Knock on wood, everything we talk about, we get. But again a lot of it is relationships with these people."

Wildhack: "And people want to play Syracuse."

How often are you told no?

Frazier: "Only if it doesn't fit the dates is when we will walk away. And then we try to make it work."

Will you entertain another Power Five school through the next decade?

Wildhack: "We haven't had that discussion yet, and I would not make a blanket statement one way or the other."

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