SEAN HANNITY: Senator, you can smoke a joint in the streets of New York City and all you're going to get is a summons. I'm not even kidding. That is how this mayor treats that issue.



SEN. RAND PAUL: I don't want to make light of this. I've seen the video, unfortunately, several times and it is sad. It's horrific to see him gasping for breath and saying, "I can't breathe, I can't breathe." And there was a case like this about 30 years ago, there was the Michael Stewart case where in New York City he was spraying graffiti on the subway walls, and it's illegal, we don't want it to happen, but he was held in a chokehold by 11 white police officers, again, who were indicted but were not convicted.



The question here is something wrong really also with our tactics. I understand police have a tough job and if someone's armed, and you're unsure, and it's dark and all this, but this was in the daylight they outnumbered him five to one, I think there was a better way than holding him in a chokehold.



SEAN HANNITY: I am sure, and I really want the evidence released because -- we have to go back 9 of the 31 arrests of Eric Garner dealt with untaxed cigarettes. It's absurd. The notion that this is even a factor in this man's life is unbelievable to me. But I think for people that really want to understand the grand jury decision, I bet it was very sanitized, very technical. What are the officers taught in terms of appropriate behavior, inappropriate behavior, a legal chokehold, a chokehold versus a headlock, a carotid artery chokehold, an air choke. I bet it got very technical in there. And a headlock is not a chokehold as everyone defines it. I would argue that that's probably how they came to their decision.



RAND PAUL: Here's the other thing, Sean, Not many people have been mentioning. Legal standards are difficult standards sometimes to prosecute people. But there's another standard for employment. And I think one announcement that would be good and it's sad in this officer's case, but at the same time he used bad discretion. He didn't use discretion and he made a very unwise decision. He should not be given the power to be able to use that kind of force. So I don't think you can have an officer that makes this bad of a decision work as a policeman. And I know it sounds sad, but Eric Garner died and he didn't need to die.



HANNITY: But do you really believe the officer's intent was -- I mean, there was resisting on Eric Garner's part.



RAND PAUL: I don't think it has to be the intent. And that's why when you talk about conviction or indictment versus continued employment, there's a much different standard. The standard for a police officer is much different.



HANNITY: How is he supposed to get him to agree to be handcuffed if he's not going to agree?



RAND PAUL: Right. Well, I think that using deadly force for people who aren't armed really is not what we should use.



HANNITY: But again, if you look at the coroner's report, yeah, it contributed but he also had high blood pressure, he had asthma, he had heart disease, all contributing factors to his situation, no?



RAND PAUL: Right. But you have to have discretion. So for example if you see an 85-year-old woman jaywalking, it's against the law, do you put her in a chokehold?



HANNITY: No. No.



RAND PAUL: You see a big guy -- this is a big guy -- you see him selling cigarettes ---



HANNITY: But if he resists, what do you do?



RAND PAUL -- is that something the community really wants to even be involved with is what I would say.