James Dobson invited Anne Paulk and Alex McFarland to discuss homosexuality this week on his radio show “Family Talk,” and as you could imagine they were not exactly happy with the rise of gay rights in America.

On the third and final broadcast, McFarland made the case that “clearly homosexuality is a destructive behavior,” citing “the actuarial charts of life insurance companies show that gay men live twenty years less than their heterosexual counterparts.” The claim that gay people live twenty years less than straight peers refers to a study conducted in the late 1980s and early 1990s during the AIDS crisis, and one of the authors claims that their research has been “ grossly misrepresented” by anti-gay activists.

McFarland went on to claim that Satan is using gay and transgender identity to “debase and devalue and harm the ones made in God’s image.”

Dobson also used the program to swear that he has “never said anything hateful to a homosexual” or “tried to increase that pain and that rejection.”