The ATF has said it wants to ban certain types of AR-15 ammunition because it can pierce the kind of body armor worn by police. But Fox News host Tucker Carlson suggested on Saturday that it was more about disarming citizens, and he had on a gun activist who said these were “tiny bullets” that actually couldn’t pierce armor.

Earlier this month, an ammunition retailer warned that “Obama and his cronies in key government posts are trying to once again de facto suppress our Second Amendment rights” by taking executive action to reclassify certain types of .223 ammunition.

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According to Carlson, the move was “not really about protecting cops as much as it is about disarming citizens.”

But Mark Glaze, executive director of Every Town For Gun Safety, told the Fox News host that the reclassification really was about law enforcement because some handguns could also fire the ammunition.

“The problem is that these bullets still can pierce the armor that many police officers wear,” Glaze explained. “And the primary danger that police officers face on the street is handguns, not rifles or shotguns.”

Giles, who founded Girls Just Want To Have Guns, argued that the primary use of the M855 cartridges was target practice.

“The reason rifle shooters use this ammunition is because it’s accurate,” she said. “So the fact that the ATF wants to ban target shooting ammunition is beyond me.”

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“They don’t actually want to ban target shooting ammunition,” Glaze pointed out. “They want to use other target shooting ammunition that can’t pierce through the Kevlar vests that police officers wear on the streets.”

“Sorry, it’s actually target ammunition,” Giles shot back. “And no person who uses a gun to carry will use this because it’s not as effective as others.”

“And to say that this is going to pierce through the armor of cops is ridiculous because it’s a tiny bullet like this big,” she added, demonstrating the size with her fingers. “And to say that the cop’s Kevlar isn’t tough enough to handle that ammunition is ridiculous. And like the FBI said, no one has used this in a handgun to shoot a cop.”

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Earlier this week, Snopes debunked the claim that President Barack Obama was banning ammunition through executive action.

“While it’s true that the ATF proposed a ban on ‘green tip’ ammunition in February 2015, President Obama was not involved through executive action of any description,” Snopes noted. “The ATF described the proposal as the result of a long-term examination, several years in the making, of whether the ammunition fit the criteria for an exemption for sporting purposes.”

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Watch the video below from Fox News’ Fox & Friends, broadcast Feb. 28, 2015.