<Drayan> sponge

<Drayan> your design sucks

<Fragmaster> ah only there

<Fragmaster> i used browse matches

<Fragmaster> and didnt find it anywhere afterwards

<Fragmaster> and why is there no specific play ctf now

<Fragmaster> :|

<Fragmaster> and why cant i chose which map

<Fragmaster> and why is the server already full when i get connected to a server

<Fragmaster> that play now isnt really a queue is it

<praxismo> because it's a play now function, meaning that you're not fussy and you just want to play now

<Fragmaster> its just checking on a server where there is a slot

<praxismo> but getting connected to a full server sucks

<Fragmaster> the function as it suxx

<Fragmaster> i'd expect to be placed in a queue

<Fragmaster> with other ppls

<Fragmaster> wanting to play the same mod and map

<Fragmaster> and maybe also playersize

<Fragmaster> teamsize for example

<praxismo> that's not play now, that's matchmaking

<Fragmaster> and once the queue is full, a game stars

<Fragmaster> yea

<Fragmaster> exactly

<Fragmaster> i was hoping for that

<praxismo> so perhaps it would be better to ask why there is not a matchmaking function, instead of asking why play now isn't exactly like a different function

<Fragmaster> well, last time i discussed that function with them

<Fragmaster> (which is some months ago thou)

<Fragmaster> it was ment to be a matchmaking function

<Fragmaster> so i thought they did that

<praxismo> cs:go has both for example, the play now function works pretty much the same as the one in quake

<praxismo> apart from the fact that the quake one obeys tiers

<Fragmaster> yea

<Fragmaster> i, personally, only find matchmaking usefull

<Fragmaster> but thats just my humble oppinion

<praxismo> yeh if I still played it I'd be the same. If I wanted to play on a community server I'd be fussy.

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<Lorfa> heh, who is teen queen?

<noctis_> <Fragmaster> i'd expect to be placed in a queue

<noctis_> then it wouldnt exactly be a "play now" now would it?

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<noctis_> oh, already mentioned

<noctis_> :D

<PredatH0r> zu langsam!

<noctis_> one of the more active admins and usually reasonable people on esr Lorfa

<noctis_> iirc anyway

<Lam> aka Anhedonic

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<Lam> I guess that's what he was asking about really :)

<noctis_> oh well

<Lorfa> seemed to indicate he was in focus, so curious if he was in the chan under some alias

<noctis_> no idea

<Lam> guess not, he's on #quakelive but not here

<Lorfa> maybe just doesn't join the chan

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<PredatH0r> Â¡hola zoot_!

<zoot_> :))

<ika> !a

<Dingbot> Available for playtest: Pâ€‹redatH0r iâ€‹ka

<ika> !p

<Dingbot> ika wants people to play with! !add to join him.

<PredatH0r> duel?

<ika> something team based pls

<ika> but I won't refuse if you are in the mood for duel:)

<Drayan> !a

<Drayan> I can 2v2

<Dingbot> Available for playtest: Pâ€‹redatH0r iâ€‹ka Dâ€‹rayan

<ika> but I must warn you that I played like 100 in my entier life

<ika> so I'm pretty much clueless

<PredatH0r> not sure if i played that many

<PredatH0r> and my loss rate is about 80%

<PredatH0r> 900 Elo or so

<PredatH0r> and that only b/c i won 150 points in zoot's 1-frag-wins tournament

<ika> I actually played 57, but 40 from that was teaching some dude in Canada

<ika> so it was like standing and talking:)

<ika> with 180 ping:D

<PredatH0r> is anyone else seing just a grey box in chat when there are no friends online?

PECKA [pecka@h8m3.me] is now known as pecka

<PredatH0r> there used to be a green keel with a RL on a white background

<Drayan> !active

<Dingbot> Duel Ikaruga Amsterdam, NLD (213.163.65.211:27913) 2/16 IN_PROGRESS on Aerowalk @ http://focus.quakelive.com/r/join/671084

<pecka> !man

spenZzz [Elite11467@aLsteR.users.quakenet.org] is now known as spenzer

<Drayan> man?

PerpetualWar [PerpetualW@bnc.entirely.pro] is now known as PerpetualWa_off

<pecka> manual

<pecka> !active

<Dingbot> Duel Ikaruga Amsterdam, NLD (213.163.65.211:27913) 4/16 IN_PROGRESS on Aerowalk @ http://focus.quakelive.com/r/join/671084

<pecka> !passive

<pecka> !help

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<dAw00d> why does focus say

<dAw00d> quakelive is offline

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<ika> dAw00d it's online here

<ika> !w

<Dingbot> 3 player(s) available: Pâ€‹redatH0r iâ€‹ka Dâ€‹rayan

<ika> !active

<Dingbot> Duel Ikaruga Amsterdam, NLD (213.163.65.211:27913) 2/16 IN_PROGRESS on Aerowalk @ http://focus.quakelive.com/r/join/671084

<dAw00d> yeah

<dAw00d> i had to restart my pc for some reason

<dAw00d> the focus website wasnt even opening

<dAw00d> dunno why

<ika> so if the devs gonna stay with the loadout thingy , don't you huys think it would be better if the pick would be announced?

<ika> it could give some tactical aspect to the pregame, some drama into the warmup

<ika> I do not like the whole loadout thingy, but I'm trying to think about ways how could it be better if it's gonna stay after all

<ika> guys*

<ika> like player1 picked lg as primary weapon

<ika> etc

<ika> players could alter their loadouts based on the opponent's picks, caster could talk about the choices, etc... just a little some extra spice

<ika> -some/

<Lorfa> nah, would just wait until some other player picks first

<Lorfa> and try to pick right after

<Lorfa> would be silly

<Lorfa> and the announcer drives me nuts as it is

<ika> I meant announced as a chat

<ika> not in voice

<ika> or like ready is announced

<Lorfa> shrug, I would probably just ignore that, maybe try to find the guy in-game and see what weapon he's holding

<Lorfa> at most you could do some icons in the score box

<Lorfa> does it really matter that much what weapon he has though?

<ika> no it doesn't ofc, but I think people like to think more and deepness into these kind of things, so it would be easy to add something to the game

<ika> but I just realized that you can change it midgame too

<ika> so it's kinda useless that way indeed

<Lorfa> heh what I found playing those short ffas when we were testing scoreboard was that you can change up your loadout

<Lorfa> then die

<Lorfa> then put your loadout back

<Lorfa> and pick up your dead body weapon

<Lorfa> so then it is like you have an extra gun

<Lorfa> and you can effectively add guns to the map that way

<Lorfa> so there is some strategy there, albeit small

<ika> I was thinking that if they gonna add loadout then they should get out of it as much as possible

<ika> nvm then

<Lorfa> I think uhm, just cv ruleset classic

<Lorfa> ------> :D

<ika> that's not why we are here:D, we are here to test new stuff and perhaps make some comments or suggestions

PerpetualWa_off [PerpetualW@bnc.entirely.pro] is now known as PerpetualWar

<[Q50]> honestly

<[Q50]> this fucking shit new client

<[Q50]> in prod

<[Q50]> where the hell is CTF!?

<[Q50]> can i play fucking CTF?!?!

<[Q50]> :p

<[Q50]> if i can't work out where CTF servers are...how are newcomers going to :/

<[Q50]> just argh

<[Q50]> "team grab bag"

<[Q50]> fucking hell

<[Q50]> seriously

<[Q50]> :(

<[Q50]> :///

<[Q50]> go to "browse matches", every server 0/x

<[Q50]> CTF ? god knows where it is

<[Q50]> i dunno :(

<[Q50]> how is this at all easy to navigate :/

<[Q50]> previously it was so so so straight forward.....

<PerpetualWar> PredatH0r

<PerpetualWar> you there ?

<PerpetualWar> anyone can tell me shoudl I disable hook.js or is there some other method for custom scripts?

<kanzo> PerpetualWar: http://esreality.com/post/2634494/extraql-replacement-for-qlhm-hook-js/

<PerpetualWar> tnx kanzo

<PerpetualWar> ;)

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<ika> Q50 set to ctf in filters

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<ika> and your daily conspiracy theory edition for today is : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzmJ610YNOE

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<ika> !r

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<PredatH0r> sponge: QL is down!

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<PredatH0r> production

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<szr> yep its down :(

<Drayan> ofc it's the weekend

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<szr> yeah, the only time that most people get to play

<KingPsychopath> Rail damage - 90.

<KingPsychopath> I just saw that.

<Drayan> best thing ever

<Drayan> so

<KingPsychopath> I'm practically fine with everything else as it's for the sake of the game ;c

<Drayan> now prod is down

<Drayan> we can all play focus!

<KingPsychopath> Let's go on lol

<szr> RL and RG is overpowered now imo

<KingPsychopath> I want to try this new rail, but 400mb to downlod

<szr> LG should be kept at 7 dmg

<KingPsychopath> I'm fine with rockets more to my advantage

<Drayan> the LG nerf works really well actually

<szr> LG is so weak now though

<KingPsychopath> SZR it will force people like heart and you ( to a lesser extent me ) to focus on other weps :DD

<KingPsychopath> Even though you're op with everything..

<szr> heh :(

<KingPsychopath> 1on1 CA? Focus

<szr> im ok with RG being 90

<szr> I think

<KingPsychopath> I know you're fast.

<szr> just RL seems a bit over the top to me

<Drayan> !active

<Dingbot> No active servers right now.

<KingPsychopath> What do I have to copy - drayan.

<szr> also the knockback is pretty insane

<szr> xD

<KingPsychopath> 400mb to download..

<Drayan> you can't avoid that 400

<Drayan> the pk3's have been reorganized

<KingPsychopath> Why -.-

<Drayan> or something

<KingPsychopath> ffs

<szr> anyone wanna duel on focus?

<Drayan> the numbered ones anyway

<KingPsychopath> Shoulda left it overnight ffs.

<KingPsychopath> 374.5mb..373.8mb..372.9mb...

<KingPsychopath> Moaaarrr powah.

<KingPsychopath> Wait

<KingPsychopath> Is the full update today?

<[eXodus]> hey guys, any more reasons for play world of tanks?

<KingPsychopath> What?

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<[eXodus]> its a cynical way off asking if sponge did more spongestuff

<Drayan> it's the weekend

<[eXodus]> u think that will stop him?

<Drayan> sponge has a girlfriend now

<[eXodus]> oh

<Drayan> he probably took her to chipotle

<[eXodus]> maybe chick a fil

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<KingPsychopath> <Drayan> sponge has a girlfriend now

<KingPsychopath> Acting like it's shocking lol

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<Drayan> i never got around to checking out his okcupid

<KingPsychopath> 217mb left

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<PredatH0r> anyone got Sponge's phone number?

<PredatH0r> please leak it here and now

<KingPsychopath> 186mb left.

<PredatH0r> i start to feel the cold turkey

<KingPsychopath> pred

<KingPsychopath> No more hook.js ?

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<KingPsychopath> Using you're exe now :P

<PredatH0r> works both ways

<KingPsychopath> mmk any new updates for the new site layout

<PredatH0r> .exe has a few advantages, but hook.js also works without it

<PredatH0r> it will then connect to the .exe on my server

<PredatH0r> which works, but is less reliable

<KingPsychopath> Yeah, I already asked about hosting it on my localhost before

<KingPsychopath> 1. Like what? 2. The userscript that allows the fullscreen on joining a game

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<KingPsychopath> It adds onto the ql overlay but looks fucked up in the current version

<PredatH0r> i'm confused. must have overlooked something. re-reading now

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<PredatH0r> https://sourceforge.net/p/extraql/wiki/extraQL.exe/

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<PredatH0r> explains the difference between using the .exe and not using it

<PredatH0r> the script for auto-fullscreen is "GameStart AutoExec/FullScreen"

<dAw00d> so

<dAw00d> quake is broken

<PredatH0r> filename autoExec.cfg

<dAw00d> and sponge and sync are away

<dAw00d> ?

<PredatH0r> autoExec.usr.js i mean

<[eXodus]> they ran

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<dAw00d> awesome!

<dAw00d> :D

<pony> cmss is taking over as head dev

<dAw00d> maybe we can get some testing done today then

<dAw00d> if prod remains broken for sometime

<Drayan> !a

<[eXodus]> at least he can make it noob friendly from own experience

<Dingbot> Available for playtest: Dâ€‹rayan

<PredatH0r> !a

<Dingbot> Available for playtest: Dâ€‹rayan Pâ€‹redatH0r

<KingPsychopath> 93mb

<KingPsychopath> pony lol.

<KingPsychopath> <pony> cmss is taking over as head dev

<KingPsychopath> Best quote ever.

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<dAw00d> szr, !a here

<szr> ? ;p

<dAw00d> !w

<Dingbot> 2 player(s) available: Dâ€‹rayan Pâ€‹redatH0r

<szr> pred, wanna duel?

<KingPsychopath> Are quake forums down?

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<KingPsychopath> 52mb until I wipe the floor with people.

<szr> anyone want to duel? bored shitless atm :D

<KingPsychopath> yes

<KingPsychopath> SZR i'm on my way in 7.7mb.

<szr> kk

<rehepapp> tbh instead of messing with the damage values they could have just fixed the ammo system :/

<szr> add me

<szr> when its instaled

<rehepapp> rail was op because of ammo, shaft is op because it has too much ammo

h8m3 slaps sponge around with a large trout

<dAw00d> rehepapp, they plan to fix it

<Drayan> !active

<Dingbot> No active servers right now.

<KingPsychopath> yesh

<KingPsychopath> SZR, CA?

<szr> add nme

<szr> add me

<szr> on focus

<KingPsychopath> kk

<szr> KingPsychopath: whats your nick in game?

<KingPsychopath> eerrr

<PredatH0r> what will it be? 2on2? ca? tdm? ft?

<PredatH0r> dunno if anyone ever playtested RR with these changes

<baaked> i think sponge said they played infected

<baaked> which is effectively RR afaik

pecka [pecka@h8m3.me] is now known as PECKA

h8m3 slaps sponge around with a large trout

<@sponge> is the site still down

<@sponge> sure is

<@sponge> ugh

<+ia> what's the current mg damage?

<+ia> i mean normal mg

<noctis_> 0, since the site is down

<Drayan> 4 for CTF

<+ia> ;) in q3 it was 7, and ql reduced it to 6 or 5?

<noctis_> 5 iirc

<Drayan> 5 for all else

<+ia> ah ok

<+ia> i think that in gametypes with the "loadout" option it should go up by 1

<+ia> so that mg is more even with sg, gl and pg

PECKA [pecka@h8m3.me] is now known as pecka

<+ia> btw i remember viju's big suggestion for quake live was that mg should be more powerful so spawns can defend themselves, but he was just saying that to help his 55% mg

<+ia> rail and rl dmg going up is fun, dunno about the lg change

<KingPsychopath> What the fcuck

<KingPsychopath> I have to download stuff again..

<KingPsychopath> Sorry szr..

<KingPsychopath> 25mb.

<+ia> does the new mg have a new skin or sound yet?

<KingPsychopath> dunno but the loadout looks nice even though I don't like it

<KingPsychopath> The only thing I probably dislike.

<+ia> i'm not really a fan of it but i don't care too much

<KingPsychopath> I like the timer stuff :D

<+ia> at first i thought it meant you could only use the two weapons you selected

<h8m3> sponge any news on when it's going to be up?

<KingPsychopath> Yeah, gonna be annoying for spacectf

<+ia> yea that will definitely be the worst of the problems spacectf has

<KingPsychopath> What probs :P

<@sponge> we can disable weapons in maps

<@sponge> it depends on how often we wish tou se that ability

<KingPsychopath> Great then, I'm sorta fine with it.

<@sponge> and it'll be up as soon as i login

<+ia> well i guess the strat is hit 80% rg and then /kill after 5 shots

<+ia> which is perfectly logical

<KingPsychopath> :p

<+ia> ;)

<+ia> i like /kill in ctf

<KingPsychopath> ia where you from?

<+ia> makes it most strategic

<+ia> better etc

<KingPsychopath> Yep

<+ia> where are you from??

<+ia> i'm from earth

<KingPsychopath> A smarter way of dropping the flag.

<KingPsychopath> What split part of pangea was you born in?

<KingPsychopath> and or do you currently live in?

<+ia> this isn't a dating website

<KingPsychopath> ima go ca now

<[Q50]> :D

<+ia> ;)

<[eXodus]> quiet now col is here

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<[Q50]> omg you are so ripping off my lines from yesterday

<[Q50]> ! :)

<praxismo> !w

<Dingbot> 2 player(s) available: Dâ€‹rayan Pâ€‹redatH0r

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<PredatH0r> website is back up. yippieee

<PredatH0r> 350day kernel panic?

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<@sponge> 220 days

<@sponge> but yea

<PredatH0r> even better

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<@sponge> oh great *now* im getting hte down notifications

<@sponge> as my phone blows up with text messages

<T1E> :D

<KingPsychopath> szr why you disappear

<PredatH0r> did you select "deliver all items in one package to save shipping costs"?

<szr> im bakc

<KingPsychopath> Ah wb

<ika> thanks sponge for fixing it (again) on the weekend

<KingPsychopath> PRed, Szr join

<ika> !active

<Dingbot> CTF KIDKEIS ARENA Maidenhead, GBR (94.76.229.13:27910) 3/16 PRE_GAME on Space CTF @ http://focus.quakelive.com/r/join/671086

<+ia> i think running faster with gauntlet out needs to go

<+ia> that's just dumb

<ika> I think it's fine

<ika> loadouts on the other hand are dumb

<+ia> and a blatent cs rip off... quake can do better

<+ia> *blatant

<+ia> i dont even know what a loadout is from anything besides ql focus

<@sponge> you know many shooters will have different speeds per-gun? also cs has guns slowing down your base speed, we have one weapno that speeds it up

<+ia> well what i meant in more detail sponge, is i think it's ok if you only have gauntlet or maybe 1 gun, then you can walk faster cause you have less mass

<+ia> but if you just copy them and change movement speed based on weapon that's out

<+ia> i mean i think that's stupid in cs too

<+ia> so i don't think just copy/pasting it is a good idea

<@sponge> how about because its fun and lets you chase people down more easily

<@sponge> neither of us thought of cs once while talking about it

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<[eXodus]> its never been a part of quake and it doesnt add anything

<+ia> it's just going to mean people with good movement can gauntlet anyone

<[eXodus]> and that 75 damage gauntlet

<[eXodus]> its just horrific

<@sponge> who gives a shit if its been a part of quake

<ika> well I think we do:(

<[eXodus]> ppl that played it the last 15 years

<+ia> quake can do better

<[eXodus]> basicly the only ppl playing ur game

<ika> bit I don't mind the gauntlet change

<[eXodus]> i mean if u think throwing away ur playerbase is fine

<@sponge> shit we should probaly get rid of the plasma gun and railgun because those weren't a part of quake 1

<[eXodus]> for some stupid changes like that that dont add anything

<[eXodus]> fine by me

<@sponge> get rid of q3 entirely, man how different that was from what quake is!

<[eXodus]> right

<[eXodus]> hf

<ika> <@sponge> plus yall can just go back to quake 3

<+ia> there's a difference between making quake more accessible and just copying other games

<ika> :D

<@sponge> ia: just because another game does it doesn't mean its copying. it would be copying if it served no function in ql, but it does

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<PredatH0r> guys, it's weekend and sponge just came to the rescue

<PredatH0r> please dont drag everything down again

<+ia> serving a function or not has nothing to do with it being copying or not

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<+ia> it's copying if it's... copying

<@sponge> copying implies it was done without any thought, which it wasn't

<+ia> no, copying doesn't imply thought or not

<Fragmaster> and how come

<+ia> that requires assuming motives

<Fragmaster> u never thought of that before

<Fragmaster> weapon balance hasnt been an issue for the last years

<+ia> i can't copy someone's term paper and then say i thought about it

<Fragmaster> and all of the sudden, with the release of steam support

<Fragmaster> you start touching it :>

<@sponge> because quake 3 gameplay isn't perfect

<@sponge> and touching the gameplay when we have no reason to would be pointless

<[eXodus]> what is the reason?

<[eXodus]> make it noob friendly

<[eXodus]> thats not a gameplay flaw

<+ia> i think if you want to change movement or dynamics there's plenty of other ways to go about it that are more original, and better, than copying cs

<@sponge> holy shit counterstrike is not the only game that has ever done that

<@sponge> you're just using cs because you're trying to use it as an insult

<@sponge> which is dishonest

<Drayan> suggest some

<+ia> no i'm using cs because it's the 1st game that did that, and it's also the only one i've played where that was possible

<[eXodus]> cod which copied it from cs?

<@sponge> i'm having a hard time thinking of a shooter recently released that *doesnt* have multiple player movement speeds

<smove> R.I.P. Quake

<[eXodus]> ye

<@sponge> since most shooters are of the realism variety

<smove> this all has nothing to do with Quake anymore, and that's a bit unfortunate

<[eXodus]> lets hope u return to classic quake when the playerbase takes a dive

<+ia> hmm

<Drayan> QL has multiple player movement speeds

<Fragmaster> which quake isnt

<Drayan> walk and run.

<@sponge> which is why we didnt do it because of realism

<[eXodus]> rocketjump is a movement speed

<@sponge> we did it because it was fun

<Drayan> add prone

<smove> Drayan: :D

<@sponge> if there you could prone slide, that'd probably be fun

<Fragmaster> helicopters are fun

<@sponge> we can't do vehicles, nor do we find them particularly fun

<[eXodus]> trampoline powerup

<Fragmaster> who cares what you like

<Fragmaster> its about the players

<Fragmaster> :>

<+ia> honestly if you want to make a fun weapons change that nobody has done, give grenades linear momentum

<blau> problem I see with gauntlet speed is that it makes the game even more difficult for new players.

<Fragmaster> to be honest

<Fragmaster> if you really wanted to bring in something good

<ika> PredatH0r it's like this (IMHO): we have a park where we meet every day after hard work and play some soccer/basketball/(insert random game here)/etc, and now the owner of the park told us that we can stay but they gonna change some things because they want more visitors, so they will repaint the field with a different size, replace the goal with a smaller one and also the ball will

<ika> be 25% bigger from now on.... it's not about "dragging everything down", but about how can we make this work, so the owner and us both gonna be happy and keep playing our fav games.

<[eXodus]> faster targets are harder to hit

<+ia> or give players momentum so if you run into someone you don't instantly stop

<Fragmaster> that is also noobfriendly

<[eXodus]> and ur trying to make it easier?

<Fragmaster> you should have done a matchmaking system

<blau> and all the difficult jumps need to be re-thought: with or w/o guantlet

<Fragmaster> instead of that useless play no match :D

<Fragmaster> play now

<@sponge> we don't have anyone in the company that has the knowledge to do something like that

<ika> so you just modding:D

<+ia> sponge i don't really mind occasional weapons changes or whatever, i'm just commenting on the gauntlet run speed in particular

<Fragmaster> of a matchmaking system?

<@sponge> everyone just uses steam

<Fragmaster> you basically have all you need alreaedy

<PredatH0r> ika: nope, its not like that. you can still spawn your "classic" servers and play there

<@sponge> nobody writes their own

<[eXodus]> if u spend all the time u used on making shitty modifications on learning matchmaking, u wouldnt have had to

<+ia> sponge you were replying to me talking about momentum?

<@sponge> ia: no, matchmaking

<@sponge> doom 3 does momentum on projectiles, it sucks

<+ia> hard to tell with all the comments

<Fragmaster> i you already have done segmentations on players

<@sponge> [eXodus]: sync has done most of the gameplay code so that's actually not really true

<ika> PredatH0r that would mean no progression from now on for us, just rotting away til we all drop dead

<Fragmaster> otherwise you wouldnt have tiers

<+ia> movement dynamics in doom 3 are pretty weird

<Fragmaster> so not much to do there

<[eXodus]> ql will not be free to play anymore

<+ia> i'm not suggesting 1400ups rockets or anyhting

<Fragmaster> and all you have to do now to setup a matchmaking system

<Fragmaster> is use those ones, keep players in a queue

<Fragmaster> i mean

<@sponge> Fragmaster: please don't tell me how to code something you have no idea the amount of effort that goes into it.

<[eXodus]> cos ql will be behind the paywall

<[eXodus]> fucked up ql will be free

<smove> [eXodus]: it's not ql anymore anyway. they should rename it to something else tbh

<Fragmaster> i can basically paint the process for you

<+ia> Fragmaster that'll be like weird talking about netcode

<@sponge> Fragmaster: great, but that is frankly absolutely worthless

<Fragmaster> well

<@sponge> everyone knows how its supposed to work

<Fragmaster> whats the issue then

<[eXodus]> quakelol maybe

<+ia> but if you want to code it in c++ or something then do it

<+ia> and put it on github

<@sponge> its a hard programming problem? so hard that services like steam have came up to do it for you?

<Fragmaster> i doubt that

<Fragmaster> even HoN has it

<Fragmaster> and did it themselfs

<@sponge> this is why you don't know

<Fragmaster> wow has it

<+ia> Fragmaster it's fairly involved

<[eXodus]> if u never start on it, ull never have it

<@sponge> yes keep pointing out these games that have many more people working on them that have these things

<+ia> it involves making an NxN matrix of all players

<Fragmaster> well

<+ia> and then figuring out how to make it sparse

<Fragmaster> matchmaking has been spoken about since the beginning

<[eXodus]> they have more ppl cos they have matchmaking

<+ia> if you want to properly rank everyone

<@sponge> yea well bloodline champions has matchmaking too

<@sponge> and nobody plays that

<[eXodus]> oh so 1 failed game means its bs?

<+ia> otherwise it's just done with local variations

<+ia> which isn't globally accurate

<Fragmaster> ia you only have to do that matrix for the players added

<@sponge> oh so 2 successful games has it that means thats why?

<[eXodus]> 2?

<[eXodus]> LoL Dota sc2 wot wow

<+ia> Fragmaster it's been done a couple times already, also by microsoft for xbox

<[eXodus]> need more?

<[eXodus]> fifa

<+ia> i'm just outlining it

<@sponge> i can go down my steam list and point out all the failed games that have matchmaking too

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<@sponge> its a dumb argument

<[eXodus]> any modern game has matchmaking

<+ia> it's possible but it's not a weekend project

<[eXodus]> cos its a basic thing u need

<Fragmaster> no one doubted that

<smove> ia: 2 should cut it though

<smove> :)

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<@sponge> everything worth doing in computing can be done in 2 weeks

<+ia> also you can just give everyone a # and not tell them how they get it

<+ia> then you have matchmaking $

<Fragmaster> aha

<Fragmaster> says who? :D

<pecka> if there will be MATCHMAKING make it only for PRO

<@sponge> ia: i'm thinking more of the making evenly numbered matches of groups of players that are multiple sized

<+ia> hmm

<@sponge> i could probably do duel matchmaking in a couple of weekends

<@sponge> but that would not be all that useful

<Fragmaster> well

<Fragmaster> if you could do it for duel

<Fragmaster> whats the big difference for team games

<@sponge> the teams part

<@sponge> mainly

<Fragmaster> i mean what specifically

<Fragmaster> holding them in a quueue

<Fragmaster> calculating avg team strenth

<@sponge> http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/projects/trueskill/ well here's a large whitepaper of very smart people trying to solve this problem

<Fragmaster> what exactly is the probelem

<@sponge> maybe they should've just asked you to sum it up in 3 sentences

<Fragmaster> szr uses trueskill for qlmbot

<Fragmaster> well

<Fragmaster> no one claims the system to be perfect

<PredatH0r> in duel its easy to assign responsibility to each winning / losing player

<@sponge> (we can't use trueskill because it's patented and they don't allow it for commercial apps)

<Fragmaster> basically

<[eXodus]> not a single mm system is perfect

<Fragmaster> you already have the algortihm for it

<PredatH0r> in a team you have to split the result up

<@sponge> lol

<Fragmaster> ./shuffle

<[eXodus]> but a 80% good one is better then a non excisting one

<+ia> that's cool but to be honest i think they're using college math, i'm not impressed unless someone's talking about ricci flow

<Fragmaster> shuffle probably does something like taking players elo (or whatever its called for you, like skillrating)

<Fragmaster> and calculates the best avg teams based on that

<Fragmaster> right?

<@sponge> based on 10 players where the match was already made, yea

<@sponge> that's easy

<@sponge> you clearly do not understand the full scope of the problem though

<Fragmaster> im trying to

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<Fragmaster> so your problem lies before alredy

<Fragmaster> like finding out who in the queue would fit in best?

<+ia> i'd map everyone onto an N dimensional manifold, then do a stationary phase approximation

<pecka> sponge may be some kind of penalty for players who leaves mid game?

<pecka> it kills all the team modes public games

<[eXodus]> half an hour unable to join games

<@sponge> on prod? where

<[eXodus]> that should be the penalty

<@sponge> oh

<Fragmaster> i mean, im happy that you admit that you have no clue how to implement it

<@sponge> meh

<Fragmaster> but on the other hand

<Fragmaster> we've been asking for matchmaking already years ago

<ika> exodus it's a video game not a concentration camp

<Fragmaster> maybe when you still had the budged to buy expertise for it

<@sponge> lol we haven't had the budget

<[eXodus]> works in LoL

<[eXodus]> just fine

<@sponge> ever

<[eXodus]> u get even longer bans

<@sponge> they were going to kill the game outright a couple of years ago

<@sponge> they weren't going to hire more people

<Fragmaster> hmm

<Fragmaster> not hire

<[eXodus]> years ago

<Fragmaster> consultants

<[eXodus]> like in beta

<@sponge> and in beta they couldn't do it because the site couldn't manage more than 2000 people online at once

<@sponge> shit happens

<@sponge> this is how software/game dev happens

<@sponge> we've been fighting our infrastructure ever since day 1

<@sponge> and it still sucks

<+ia> needs more ttimo

<[eXodus]> so was ql supposed to be a success with the 0 marketing done for it?

<@sponge> this is why im trying to push for steam exclusive

<Fragmaster> steam is a good choice

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<Fragmaster> really is no doubt about that

<@sponge> the marketing didn't happen because the advertising dollars didn't come in while we were in beta

<Fragmaster> yea

<Fragmaster> you never really had a good marketing

<[eXodus]> its called investing

<@sponge> oh they invested a shitton

<@sponge> millions

<[eXodus]> not in marketing

<@sponge> you're not gonna market the game when the game is half broken as it was during beta

<[eXodus]> and ur not gonna get advertisers with that either

<[eXodus]> sounds so logical

<@sponge> we didn't sell our own ads

<@sponge> an external company did

<@sponge> (that went under, multiple times)

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<@sponge> so spending money on marketing would be stupid because no money would be coming in from those users

<@sponge> you don't just spend money on something and call it investing

<Fragmaster> well

<Fragmaster> there is always a business case

<@sponge> lol there was no money coming in

<@sponge> because the in game ad market ceased to exist

<[eXodus]> u dont not spend money and then are suprised nobody knows about the game

<Fragmaster> if its positive, you do it, not all businesses are positive on revenue thou

<Fragmaster> but on other things

<@sponge> holy shit now you're just outright ignoring what im saying

<Fragmaster> i think i just didnt understand

<[eXodus]> im not ignoring u

<Fragmaster> what you meant by [18:11] <@sponge> so spending money on marketing would be stupid because no money would be coming in from those users

<@sponge> back when money was not being made on the game, advertising for more players would *hurt quake live*

<[eXodus]> i just dont understand the logic

<@sponge> having more players would be BAD

<@sponge> because they would COST US

<[eXodus]> it seems broken logic

<[eXodus]> just as this steam release update

<[Q50]> :o

<[eXodus]> most of the changes seem broken logic

<Fragmaster> well

<Fragmaster> if it was and is like that sponge

<Fragmaster> then the game was dead from the start

<Fragmaster> something was totally wrong then

<@sponge> yes, the something was in game ads was a really bad market

<+ia> original idea was to have advertising

<Fragmaster> how were you supposed to raise money out of it

<Fragmaster> if you cant increase the playersr

<@sponge> and web ads started dying out shortly afterward

<+ia> it seems like the new thing is to get sponsorships from big companies in various forms

<+ia> even the berrics skateboarding site doesn't have video ads anymore

<@sponge> which is what campgrounds intel was, that went right to quakecon

<KingPsychopath> Sponge - r_mapoverbrihgtbits seems to take power over r_mapoverbrightbits

<+ia> they just have big companies like mountain dew or gopro cams that fund stuff

<+ia> like building a new park, competitions stuf like that

<+ia> same as intel funding quakecon

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<Fragmaster> the problem with ingame adds is

<@sponge> KingPsychopath: did you accidentally set the cvar name wrong and now its in your config file?

<+ia> then people see it that way

<Fragmaster> that you really cant measure their revenue corretly

<+ia> the intel ql map is a great example

<Fragmaster> and i didnt even mean those actions with marketing

<Fragmaster> i mean, social networks, community events

<Fragmaster> lan parties

<+ia> so basically, that's the new online funding method

<+ia> it's more like stuff in the past

<+ia> idk about lan parties though

<ika> Fragmaster that's a lot of work

<Fragmaster> advertising on other plattforms

<+ia> lan parties seem more outdated now

<KingPsychopath> maybe brb

<Fragmaster> yea

<+ia> maybe intel buying flights for 10 people to go to texas and play for a weekend

<Fragmaster> then online tourneys

<Fragmaster> or whatsoever

<+ia> with high res streams and stuff

<Fragmaster> hosted by id

<+ia> that's the future

<Fragmaster> also commentated by id

<Fragmaster> or soemthing

<+ia> that's what everyone else does

<+ia> in all sports

<Fragmaster> i mean

<+ia> like look at redbull for example

<Fragmaster> if you take a look at lol streams

<Fragmaster> those fuckers have like 20k viewers

<+ia> idk about lol or dota personally

<Fragmaster> with a non official game

<+ia> but check the redbull site for example

<KingPsychopath> Anybody want to spacectf 1on1?

<Fragmaster> i hardly doubt quakelive even has 20k players

<+ia> actually they had quake live content a wihle ago, i was surprised

<+ia> think it was crossposted on esr or something

<KingPsychopath> frag

<KingPsychopath> It has lol

<[eXodus]> dont think it does

<+ia> but anyway redbull is giant for some reason, and they're sorta dumb, but that type of sponsorship is basically the future

<@sponge> we have way over 20k active users

<KingPsychopath> told you

<KingPsychopath> ;p

<KingPsychopath> on qlm alone - messages 10k players

<Fragmaster> also

<Fragmaster> what i never got and always complained about was

<Fragmaster> the communication part of ql

<Fragmaster> users have always been left in the dark with changed

<Fragmaster> s

<Fragmaster> until they were shipped to production

<KingPsychopath> Probably because of the arguements that come of it

<KingPsychopath> I think that's what focus is for.

<Fragmaster> yea

<Fragmaster> but i cant remember of someone really beeing active in the focus forums

<Fragmaster> from id

<Fragmaster> that really took up the advices

<Fragmaster> or the proposals been made

<Fragmaster> and ocmmentad on them

<KingPsychopath> IRC

<Fragmaster> on a regular basis

<@sponge> because we are not design by committee

<Fragmaster> yea

<Fragmaster> thats the point

<KingPsychopath> Fragmaster

<Fragmaster> you never really gave too much about what the players wanted

<@sponge> design by committee is shit and no worthwhile game does it

<KingPsychopath> Did you play q3?

<+ia> idk, there's been lots of stuff over time Fragmaster

<Fragmaster> from the beginning yes

<@sponge> but lol at the notion that we don't take feedback from focus on stuff

<KingPsychopath> Guessed so.

<@sponge> this is the first update where we really aren't

<@sponge> if you think that then you clearly haven't been around focus a lot

<[eXodus]> well design by ur own thought when u play 3 hours a month

<[eXodus]> might not be the best way

<+ia> well not really

<Fragmaster> this is what i mean

<+ia> i mean jones and sync basically designed lg 1-1

<KingPsychopath> What do you mean?

<@sponge> maybe we should let the pro players design games. that worked out pretty well w/ severity

<KingPsychopath> Most q3 players moaning against the game are their own demons.

<+ia> like jones isn't part of id or anything

<Fragmaster> what exodus said

<[Q50]> i just wish there was some possible way of doing proper matchmaking with the steam release imminent now :/

<noctis_> design by your own thought when you play 3 hours a day aint the best either

<noctis_> cause of bias

<[eXodus]> oh thats not what im saying

<+ia> but it was basically his feedback to sync that made it what it is for like... years

<[eXodus]> but ignoring things they bring

<[eXodus]> and add idiotic other things

<[eXodus]> is another

<+ia> same with rocketjumps, although that was someone else

<Fragmaster> i never said all proposals are good

<noctis_> oh come on sponge, you gotta have a better example

<noctis_> :D

<+ia> we were testing on t4

<Fragmaster> you can probably still forget about 60 - 70& of it

<KingPsychopath> noctis

<KingPsychopath> CA 1on1?

<noctis_> or did severity ever make it further than that one art piece

<@sponge> noctis_: well just look at the new ut. they *say* they're listening to the community but they're still designing the game on their own. see all the people getting mad at halftime ctf. that didn't come from the community

<[Q50]> i've never even heard of severity :)

<@sponge> also that was the only example i coudl think of that existed

<noctis_> but its not an example

<noctis_> since nothing was ever made

<[eXodus]> halftime in ctf is retarded though

<@sponge> otherwise fatal1ty should be the world's foremost game designer

<Fragmaster> what i meant

<+ia> can we have a noctis_ game mode in ql

<+ia> where the lights go out

<Fragmaster> we had some kind of that discussion about 1.5 years ago or something

<@sponge> we already have a noctis game mode, this patch is all his

<Fragmaster> when syncerror said

<+ia> and you get neon outlines of everything

<noctis_> didnt you read esr?

<KingPsychopath> ia> where the lights go out

<KingPsychopath> This patch is all his?

<noctis_> its my game now

<+ia> and some kidn of metal music in the background

<Drayan> sponge: are weapon respawn times in TDM changing?

<Fragmaster> you are not giving out stuff that is going to get implemented

<KingPsychopath> lol is it?

<+ia> and his movement+weapons

<[Q50]> :D

<Fragmaster> cause you might scratch stuff and dont do it then etc.

<[Q50]> i never read ESR!

<[Q50]> :/

<@sponge> Drayan: the tdm pubs up on focus are what we are testing

<[Q50]> unless some hackers thread :p

<[Q50]> that someone links me to on irc

<[Q50]> :))

<noctis_> everything in this update is my fault

<KingPsychopath> Of course q50 :p

<@sponge> so those settings should be reasonably close

<Fragmaster> and i always said, thats what focus maybe for

<[Q50]> true story!

<[Q50]> satanic place!

<noctis_> im not the hero you deserve, but the one you need right now

<noctis_> taking all the blame

<[Q50]> lol

<noctis_> or smth

<Fragmaster> well whatever :>

<[Q50]> we'll add it to noctis's list, along with PQL :/

<@sponge> turbo!

<noctis_> turbo is awesome

<@sponge> Drayan: http://focus.quakelive.com/r/join/671017

<Dingbot> TDM Maidenhead, GBR (94.76.229.13:27905) 0/16 PRE_GAME on The Edge

<[Q50]> :D lol

<noctis_> you shut your whore mouth

<Fragmaster> hhehe

<Fragmaster> thanks for pql !

<PredatH0r> id is a company and QL is a business after all. stuff must happen to make profits and not because it's on Santa's list

<KingPsychopath> Noctis_

<ika> guys when QL was born it was a twisted bastard creature unable to even breathe on it's own, let alone to compete with other games.... and because of sponge and sync (+the dedication and the wallets of the community) that hopeless crosseyed mongo did man up after all and became a good game.... I think you are expeting too much from it now, the two devs won't make it super perfect for

<ika> sure imo, even if they would try:)

<Fragmaster> my god

<Fragmaster> write short sentences

<KingPsychopath> I agree with ika.

<Fragmaster> i wont read that long stuffÂ°!

<KingPsychopath> Fragmaster, you're your own demon.

<[Q50]> omg ika! what a kissass!!! :D

<KingPsychopath> QL isn't Q3. :D

<ika> :(

<[Q50]> lol

<[Q50]> some things in QL are far better than Q3 :p

<ika> Q50 I don't even like the changes and you know that

<[Q50]> rockets ffs

<KingPsychopath> Rocket power

<[Q50]> does anyone really want them shit slow q3 rockets back? ever?

<[Q50]> :D

<ika> but I respect their work even if I don't agree

<[eXodus]> so what ur saying is, its finally a playable game, time to fuck it up properly

<Fragmaster> i dont know what you are trying to tell me KingPsychopath i never said it should be

<KingPsychopath> No..

<[Q50]> nobody mentions the good things in QL! :)

<KingPsychopath> ^

<[eXodus]> theyre soon gone [Q50]

<KingPsychopath> Fragmaster that's the idea I'm getting.

<[eXodus]> that might be why

<KingPsychopath> I like the changes, thought I'd hate them.

<Fragmaster> what of what i wrote made you think that

<KingPsychopath> Played SZR with them, and their decent, apart from the power of rocket.

<+ia> someone in ca complained my lg was like strenx yesterday

<+ia> so that's a plus with pub ca

<KingPsychopath> Frag, I just read a lot of constant complaining.

<KingPsychopath> IA, is that a good thing?

<Fragmaster> about marketing strategy

<+ia> i guess??

<Fragmaster> what does that have to do with q3 beeing ql

<Fragmaster> and no, i also gave ideas how to improve it

<Fragmaster> and i doubt q3 had a matchmaking system

<Fragmaster> your arguments make no sens

<KingPsychopath> You was moaning about how QL is.

<Fragmaster> no i wasnt

<Fragmaster> not in a single line

<Fragmaster> i was moaning about what it will become

<Fragmaster> or what it wont become

<KingPsychopath> snippets -

<dAw00d> KingPsychopath = kidkei?

<KingPsychopath> <Fragmaster> if you could do it for duel

<KingPsychopath> <Fragmaster> whats the big difference for team games

<Fragmaster> exactly

<Fragmaster> and did you also read the lines before

<Fragmaster> we been talking about matchmaking

<KingPsychopath> Nope, I started reading mid-game.

<Fragmaster> yea, scroll up then

<KingPsychopath> Mmk

<Fragmaster> but thanks for joining :>

<KingPsychopath> <Fragmaster> u never thought of that before

<KingPsychopath> <Fragmaster> weapon balance hasnt been an issue for the last years

<Fragmaster> yep

<KingPsychopath> All of a sudden you start touching it

<Fragmaster> whats that from your point of view

<KingPsychopath> <Fragmaster> and all of the sudden, with the release of steam support

<KingPsychopath> <Fragmaster> you start touching it :>

<KingPsychopath> <sponge> because quake 3 gameplay isn't perfect

<Fragmaster> [18:28] <Fragmaster> i was moaning about what it will become

<KingPsychopath> Mmmk

<PredatH0r> guys, get a room. or a PM channel for that matter

<Fragmaster> and evne sponges argument wasnt valid

<Fragmaster> since we dont have quake 3 gameplay

<Fragmaster> in ql

<Fragmaster> weapons have been completly rebalanced

<Fragmaster> and no one complained about that

<Fragmaster> at least no one on servers does

<KingPsychopath> Yeah, because they were decent.

<Fragmaster> both are

<Fragmaster> q3 was, so is ql

<Fragmaster> and now its gonna get redesigned but not since its broken

<+ia> i dont really care about the weapons changes that much

<KingPsychopath> To attract new players.

<+ia> they're all pretty much the same thing

<Fragmaster> yep

<KingPsychopath> ^

<Fragmaster> and that isnt the right way imo

<Fragmaster> i doubt ppl will have more fun

<KingPsychopath> You tried playing with it?

<Fragmaster> cause it gets easier to chase

<+ia> i mean 2 of the guns are moving from where they were in ql to 1/2 way towards their q3 values

<KingPsychopath> Fragmaster

<KingPsychopath> Have you tried playing with it?

<Fragmaster> nope

<+ia> if you take the range from the weakest ql or q2 weapon values, up to the strongest qw values

<+ia> anything generally in that range and i won't really care

<Fragmaster> which is why im trying to be objective

<+ia> the dynamics are still gonna be similar

<Fragmaster> i mean

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<Fragmaster> if i was in a meeting

<Fragmaster> and my boss asked me the following question

<+ia> 1v1 dm6?

<+ia> or 1v1 cpm3a?

<Fragmaster> "guys, we are going live on steam soon, how can we make the game better to attract the players

<+ia> fear?

<PredatH0r> lol ia. +1

<Fragmaster> i doubt my first answer would have been "lets bring im movement changes, and weapon rebalance"

<esdf> movement changes are nice (aside from the gauntlet bs)

<esdf> weapon changes also

<[eXodus]> and add a paywall for anyone who wants to play ql

<Fragmaster> and do yout hink

<esdf> i only don't like weapon loadout system

<+ia> they're basically just making the other modes a little like ca

<spenzer> its kinda bs to make the game more railheavy

<Fragmaster> tbh

<Fragmaster> if i was their boss

<esdf> if they put rail ammo down to 5

<Fragmaster> and they came up with those redisign stuff

<esdf> instead of 10

<esdf> 90 is ok

<Fragmaster> i'd seriously ask them

<+ia> esdf it is 5

<Fragmaster> "why didnt we do that then before steam"

<+ia> lol

<esdf> ia, then it's fine

<+ia> although pickups are thankfully still 10

<QBall147> :o

<+ia> i find starting iwth 5 really annoying in cpm

<spenzer> doesnt change to much. if u got 5 or 10. on maps where u just stand on rail anyway like cp9,c2,infinity

<Drayan> !active

<Dingbot> TDM Maidenhead, GBR (94.76.229.13:27905) 4/16 PRE_GAME on The Edge @ http://focus.quakelive.com/r/join/671017

<@sponge> Fragmaster: because theres no point, nobody new was coming into the game

<+ia> if it were up to me

<Fragmaster> yea and the underlying problem

<+ia> rather than making hitscan weaker i'd just make the models even smaller

<Fragmaster> never was the ewapon balance

<+ia> and put lg and rail back up to their q3 values

<esdf> only thing it's missing is matchmaking with lobbies, leagues etc :<

<+ia> but have hitboxes be 25% smaller

<Fragmaster> it was the marketing, community handling, and that it was much too hard for ppl to get in

<KingPsychopath> What was their q3 values

<esdf> also clan customization and what not

<KingPsychopath> ia

<KingPsychopath> What was it

<Fragmaster> [18:36] <esdf> only thing it's missing is matchmaking with lobbies, leagues etc :<

<Fragmaster> that would have attraced players

<@sponge> Fragmaster: you are so far off base that i don't even know where to start

<@sponge> people dont finish their first match, they quit and never log in again

<Fragmaster> if you guys hosted leagues

<+ia> 7mg, 8lg with movement cripple, 100rl, 100rg

<+ia> ?

<@sponge> they didnt do that because of community handling lol

<Fragmaster> yea, that was the last part of my sentence

<KingPsychopath> ia oh shit

<KingPsychopath> ;x

<@sponge> they didnt die 50 times in a match and think HMM I SURE WISH THEY TALKED TO ME AS A COMMUNITY MEMBER MORE

<+ia> i experimented with making hitboxes a lot smaller back when it was variable

<Fragmaster> cause it was too hard to play for noobs :)

<spenzer> and this will change now?

<+ia> it gets to the point where it's impossible to hit a rail in bot ffa games

<Fragmaster> yea, but on the other hand you think

<@sponge> not as much as i'd like it to change, but we are still an old game

<Fragmaster> making it easier to pummel

<Fragmaster> will make them die less

<+ia> but idk, w/e

<[eXodus]> they died and though, damn it would be nice if there was matchmaking so i could play with other noobs

<Fragmaster> exactly

<Fragmaster> playing against ppl on their skilllevel

<@sponge> but maybe if we *think* and *believe* hard enough we can do things that we couldn't do before!

<Fragmaster> is what makes them stay

<@sponge> just put your mind to it!

<@sponge> and all your problems wil go away

<[eXodus]> ql will be gone soon ye

<[eXodus]> no problems

<+ia> ql will stick around

<Fragmaster> matchmaking would solve your problem :>

<+ia> the update isn't really going to be a big deal or affect that much

<Fragmaster> which is what i was trying to tell you for the last 3 years

<+ia> it's not going to affect pickup channels

<[eXodus]> its gonna be a big deal when u have to pay to play ql

<Fragmaster> and in the end of the discussion it was always a money problem

<[eXodus]> every free player will be gone

<+ia> as for pubs... maybe it will be a small plus or minus

<+ia> hmm

<+ia> [eXodus] do you really think it's going to have a large effect?

<Fragmaster> and in the end, i gave up

<[eXodus]> yes

<+ia> i don't think the changes are really even that noticable for outright beginners

<[eXodus]> cos u when u make such big changes

<[eXodus]> and force ppl to use them

<+ia> basically it just means you can spawn with lg in ffa or sometihng

<[eXodus]> ur gonna have a bad time

<+ia> otherwise they'd probably play ca anyway

<+ia> i don't really see it having a giant effect

<[eXodus]> so loadout is the only change?

<+ia> the movement stuff is honestly minor

<[eXodus]> and the other stuff?

<+ia> i think it's a plus for beginners, personally i'd like to disable it for myself since it's too automatic

<+ia> you mean the weapons changes?

<[eXodus]> for instance

<+ia> q3 has seen much bigger weapons changes than ql adding a medium strength mg

<+ia> i mean think of all the mods

<[eXodus]> and fucking up rl splash

<[eXodus]> weakening lg

<winz> [18:39:26] <Fragmaster> which is what i was trying to tell you for the last 3 years

<winz> 6!

<+ia> rl splash is just going back to it's q3 value

<+ia> perfectly natural to me

<[eXodus]> since when is ql q3?

<spenzer> noobs will have starting weapons now, but still getting outaimed. noobs will be quicker now because of the movement changes, but compared to experienced players that raped them before, they are still slow. they got now timeing support, but experienced players still time exact, so in the end, nothing really changed

<+ia> and anyway, it's still weaker than q2 and qw

<[eXodus]> rockets fly a lot faster then in q3

<[eXodus]> its not fine at all

<+ia> they fly slightly faster than q3..

<+ia> basically the ql rockets are now identical to cpm rockets

<PredatH0r> spenzer: Amen!

<spenzer> if u dont make a system to seperate players by skill accurate, all that is actually meaningless

<[eXodus]> well

<+ia> same speed, same splash. oh wait... cpm 1.0 to 1.2 rockets

<[eXodus]> all these "small" changes being forced upon

<Fragmaster> [18:43] <spenzer> if u dont make a system to seperate players by skill accurate, all that is actually meaningless

<+ia> it's not really a big difference

<Fragmaster> reminds me of a matchmaking system

<Fragmaster> :>

<@sponge> new players aren't in tier 4

<@sponge> its not perfect but it will work

<@sponge> its called a compromise

<[eXodus]> new players also dont buy subs

<@sponge> oh so lets cater to the old q3 players some more

<@sponge> that's worked so well for us so far

<+ia> [eXodus] it'll change the weapon choices a little bit in leagues/high level 1v1s

<@sponge> the players who are constantly coming up with excuses to not subscribe

<PredatH0r> these changes are not inteded to make beginners compete against t4 veterans

<[eXodus]> lets cater to all the ppl that dont make u revenue

<+ia> but other than that it's not really going to be too noticable

<[eXodus]> see how that works

<+ia> even the 80 or 90 rg damage is basically nothing

<[eXodus]> and u know

<+ia> still means you have to shoot someone 2x

<PredatH0r> its about letting have the new comers fun when they play eachother

<[eXodus]> with ur lack of matchmaking

<+ia> or 3x if they get yellow

<[eXodus]> those new players will still play vs tier 4 ppl

<spenzer> matchmaking and proper tutorials in game could make ppl stay and evolve in the game

<+ia> there's different levels of things you can do

<Fragmaster> if u want a bigger playerbase, push leagues, raise interesst from noobs to become better, make it easier for them to play against ppl on their skilllevel (matchmaking) and

<+ia> adding a fully fleshed out matchmaking/tutorials/etc isn't really something you can do without a team of 10+ people

<+ia> otherwise it'll be half-assed

<Fragmaster> well

<@sponge> 10+ is even being generous, even 5 is realistic

<Fragmaster> its not like time it ticking

<InFerNo_> I bet there's plenty of volunteers

<@sponge> lol time is ticking

<@sponge> how much time do you think quake live has left

<Fragmaster> well

<InFerNo_> and even the smallest compensation can mean a lot to those people

<[eXodus]> depends when the update comes out

<Fragmaster> since we are discussing that for over 3 yeras

<Fragmaster> you could have started back then

<Fragmaster> when time was already ticking

<+ia> probably 2 years till ql 2.0

<[eXodus]> i'd say that + 1 to 2 months

<Fragmaster> no one said, it has to be done within 2 weeks

<InFerNo_> I'd say you support the websites that have been there for Quake Live since beta and still do news reporting

<+ia> otherwise it'll last another 8 or 10 years with slowly declining population

<+ia> without any real problem

<+ia> going on steam will probably help

<+ia> i don't see it ever dying really

<InFerNo_> the ones that have tutorials that will need a serious rewrite when this comes out

<spenzer> i mean when i just see the simple tutorialvidoes done by zoot, smth like this is done quick and can help noobs a lot

<+ia> also don't see it ever becoming giant

<@sponge> ia: steam's bump only lasts a week or so, not years

<@sponge> quake live does not have 8 to 10 years left

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<[eXodus]> 3 months or so

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<InFerNo_> in any case or current case?

<InFerNo_> because I'd say any case

<@sponge> any case

<spenzer> well why not die with a boom :D

<InFerNo_> it's too dependant on Id

<+ia> i don't mean a bumb due to a ton of new people sticking around sponge

<+ia> but even when q3 went on steam there were new people trying it pretty often

<+ia> that would find their way to #uscpmpickup somehow

<+ia> some of them are still active

<+ia> if it's on steam and you can just click 2x to download and play it

<Fragmaster> tbh sponge

<Fragmaster> if its all about expertise

<+ia> i'm sure that'll be mroe accessible than figuring out how to download the 1.32 update, cpm and threewave maps

<Fragmaster> the maybe do the things that you can

<Fragmaster> a league system for example

<Fragmaster> powered by id

<+ia> sponge i agree the surge will only last a week or so

<Fragmaster> if you hosted leagues on your website

<+ia> but steam is so giant people will jsut find stuff on their, basically forever

<Fragmaster> that would probably motivate ppl to play

<[eXodus]> its about 3 years too late for a league system

<+ia> so there's a small flow of people

<Fragmaster> yea

<@sponge> people who play quake live now have been playing for 5+ years, or 10+ years since q3

<Fragmaster> but what will you do

<@sponge> i dont think we need to do things to keep them around

<@sponge> because they arent going anywhere

<Fragmaster> always saying its too late now

<InFerNo_> yes sponge

<Fragmaster> doesnt help, then you can quit direclty :>

<InFerNo_> open your eyes

<InFerNo_> they will go somewhere

<+ia> the negative talk about ql seems kind of weird

<Fragmaster> they are

<[eXodus]> ur trying ur best to make them go away

<Fragmaster> i went.

<InFerNo_> and it isn't the new quake live

<Fragmaster> :>

<@sponge> InFerNo_: its a 15 year old game!

<+ia> it's bigger than q3 was after like 2006, when q4 came out

<+ia> or 2008 even

<@sponge> expectations really need to be put in check here

<winz> except that, there is batch of new decent fps coming up

<PredatH0r> sponge: something off-topic: did that green/white Keel-with-RL picture in an emptry friend list disappear on purpose?

<winz> more than in the last 10years

<+ia> so it's basically maintained itself more or less since like 2001

<winz> at once

<[eXodus]> league wise ql is already dead

<+ia> don't see it going anywhere

<@sponge> PredatH0r: yes removed it completely it was dumb

<PredatH0r> all i get now is an all-gray window

<[eXodus]> both tdm and ctf are dead

<winz> quakers will have options soonish

<+ia> winz i think that's just because people have recognized the genere has staying power, and still offers something worthwhile in comparison to realism shooters

<Fragmaster> yea its 15 years old somehow

<@sponge> winz: and theyre not picking quake live already

<@sponge> so whats the harm

<PredatH0r> ok. first i thought i messed up my chat-resize script, but then i noticed it was gone even without scripts

<+ia> that whould be taken as a plus for quake live, not a minus

<Fragmaster> but whats that supposed ot mean :>

<[eXodus]> id rather play wot then the monster thats being created

<@sponge> people who are excited about the new ut aren't looking at quake live and going hm this might be fun

<InFerNo_> yes they are

<Fragmaster> in the past they probably didnt even know about ql

<+ia> i think the games all kind of overlap a little

<Fragmaster> cause it wasnt promoted anywhere

<@sponge> we did not get any significant increase in registrations from anything this year but quakecon

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<Fragmaster> see

<InFerNo_> that's because you don't do anything besides quakecon!

<Fragmaster> first promotitional event

<[eXodus]> and what other reason was there?

<Fragmaster> and you get subs

<winz> registrations =| subs

<@sponge> we didnt get subs

<Fragmaster> what did i write 150 lines above

<@sponge> we got registrations

<@sponge> so, wrong again

<Fragmaster> well k

<winz> "again"

<winz> :D

<Fragmaster> but that is a step at least

<QBall147> mkay

<@sponge> lol its not a step

<@sponge> those accounts are already inactive

<Fragmaster> raising interresst

<@sponge> our daily logins didnt increase

<[eXodus]> ye

<@sponge> because they dont like the game

<[eXodus]> what a suprise

<[eXodus]> u get raped instantly

<Fragmaster> ye

<[eXodus]> cos theres no matchmaking

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<@sponge> yea because the game design makes it so you do

<Fragmaster> they are noobs, they play, get raped, uninstall

<[eXodus]> no

<[eXodus]> the lack of matchmaking does that

<InFerNo_> there need to be more events regularly, I'm not saying there has to be something all the time, that would be overkill

<Fragmaster> no fun, ppl are too good, you get flamed cause u suck

<InFerNo_> but qcon in US is just once per year

<@sponge> idk how hard it is to understand that people will get matchmade against the same people theyre getting matchmade with now

<@sponge> people in the middle of the scale

<@sponge> tier 3

<InFerNo_> dreamhack is just once per year in northern EU

<QBall147> *you get kicked

<@sponge> but i guess i'm not a super smart ideas guy

<[eXodus]> ur tier system sux

<[eXodus]> but i wont repeat myself

<@sponge> we have data that says it doesnt

<[eXodus]> u dont wanna hear it

<[eXodus]> all those 5 kills 50 deaths ppl in publics

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<[eXodus]> great tier system

<PredatH0r> t1-t3 probably works well. and i assume thats >= 75% of the playerbase

<+stownr> people dont understand the whole idea that 80+ percent of the player base are good long time players

<+stownr> how do you skill match that?

<PredatH0r> so whatever t4 is moaning about...its a minority

<@sponge> i cant tell if youre trolling or being purposefully dense

<[eXodus]> im not trolling

<@sponge> people will be placed in matchmaking at the middle of the skill curve

<[eXodus]> cos if i was

<InFerNo_> I almost exclusively play CTF and I've been slacking for years, yet I'm still highest tier

<@sponge> agree?

<@sponge> y/n

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<[eXodus]> it wouldnt be so easy to show u examples

<@sponge> no i dont give a shit

<@sponge> answer my question

<[eXodus]> that depends

<winz> why would they be placed at the middle?

<InFerNo_> however, there are moments I'm matched ok, and others where I'm owned to shit

<@sponge> winz: where would you place them

<[eXodus]> if ur going upwards

<[eXodus]> u can place them higher

<winz> at the very lowest

<[eXodus]> to see if they can go up in rating

<[eXodus]> if theyre going down

<[eXodus]> u place them lower

<@sponge> winz: so at that system, the players who are bad are constantly being beat up by new players

<+stownr> ^^^

<PredatH0r> sponge: it's saturday. servers are running again. go have some fun. leave us alone! :)

<winz> new players = bad

<winz> what are you on about

<InFerNo_> that's how SC2 works

<InFerNo_> you play a few matches then you are put in either league

<@sponge> winz: no, new players are in the middle

<PredatH0r> oh wait. i can leave too. forgot about that option

<@sponge> they are a range of skills

<@sponge> every matchmaking system starts players off in the middle

<@sponge> starcraft 2 leagues is not matchmaking, its progression

<@sponge> there is a difference

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<[eXodus]> the middle of the low end u mean

<@sponge> no, the middle

<@sponge> 0

<[eXodus]> ye

<@sponge> (assuming you go into negatives)

<@sponge> this is what you do in elo

<InFerNo_> you clearly state that the first matches are testing your skill before putting you in a "final" tier

<@sponge> InFerNo_: yes, so who are you playing? other new players

<@sponge> are we agreed?

<[eXodus]> no

<InFerNo_> no

<[eXodus]> u dont

<@sponge> who are you playing then

<QBall147> lol

<[eXodus]> ppl from bronze silver gold

<@sponge> once again

<InFerNo_> yes

<@sponge> mathcmaking is not progression

<[eXodus]> or higher even

<@sponge> mathcmaking is not progression

<@sponge> mathcmaking is not progression

<@sponge> im even going to repeat that typo

<[eXodus]> no matchmaking is skill placement

<InFerNo_> skill placement is what we're talking about

<InFerNo_> skill placement is what we're talking about

<InFerNo_> skill placement is what we're talking about

<InFerNo_> ;[

<@sponge> so who are you playing in the skill placement matches

<@sponge> what skill of player

<InFerNo_> any

<[eXodus]> u start out weak

<PredatH0r> nope. you play the most average possible player

<@sponge> is it weak or any

<[eXodus]> and it then determines whether it goes up

<@sponge> because im getting 2 answers here

<[eXodus]> or down

<InFerNo_> wife's home :]

<[eXodus]> u play a silver guy mostly first game

<[eXodus]> if u win u play a better silver or a gold

<QBall147> InFerNo_: lame

<[eXodus]> lose and u goto lower silver or bronze

<QBall147> :D

<[eXodus]> and it does that over 5 or 10 games

<winz> why are we even arguing about the benefits of a proper matchmaking with a ladder

<winz> it's obvious to everyone

<winz> that it's a good thing

<[eXodus]> not to sponge

<@sponge> because what im getting at here is

<[eXodus]> it doesnt make a difference according to him

<@sponge> when we get tens of thousands of players in steam

<@sponge> they will be in tier 3

<@sponge> the new players will be playing each other

<@sponge> LIKE YOU WOULD IN A MATCHMAKING SYSTEM

<+stownr> lol

<[eXodus]> ye

<[eXodus]> and u got a tier 4

<[eXodus]> with a skill range of 1400 to 2500 elo

<@sponge> but apparently the problem here is that nobody even understands how matchmaking works

<[eXodus]> UNLIKE a matchmaking system

<@sponge> and is just a word that they parrot because they see it in other games

<@sponge> well, if people play a few matches and get to tier 4 and quit, that's still an improvment over the current situation

<[eXodus]> cos u have platinum to challanger

<[eXodus]> all in 1 tier

<[eXodus]> instead of having 4 tiers

<@sponge> that is a success

<[eXodus]> no thats failure

<QBall147> a better failure ^^

<Fragmaster> erm

<@sponge> not by our metrics

<Fragmaster> right the new players would be playing each other

<winz> I don't agree the current system works

<[eXodus]> then ur metrics are bad

<Fragmaster> in matchmaking

<Fragmaster> if you used mmr you would start having 1500

<@sponge> our metrics are realistic for what we are trying to achieve

<winz> that new play button always connects me on servers that are way below my level

<@sponge> yes, 1500 is in the middle

<[eXodus]> then ur achievements are wrong

<@sponge> because some people will have lower than that

<Fragmaster> ye

<winz> 90% of the time

<@sponge> and people will have higher than that

<Fragmaster> but its not like

<Fragmaster> the team would consist of all 1500er

<@sponge> winz: yup play now kind of sucks for good players

<Fragmaster> some would be higher, some would be lower

<noctis_> its just a play now button, not a matchmaking button winz

<Fragmaster> and you would stil lbe able to kill the lower ones

<winz> yes noctis_

<+stownr> lol noctis

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<winz> but isn't it using the tier4 system to find a game?

<Fragmaster> and if your team loses, you go down on mmr

<winz> or not at all?

<Fragmaster> not at all

<[eXodus]> not at all

<noctis_> tier4 has a wide range

<@sponge> winz: it weighs skill, but it also weighs amount of players, and location

<Fragmaster> its just finding a spot on a server

<[eXodus]> its just a shit way to play a game

<noctis_> (but no idea)

<[eXodus]> adding more shitty features

<@sponge> finding a perfect match doesn't help if you ping 300 to it

<Fragmaster> and it connects you to a full server

<Fragmaster> which is cool as well :D

<winz> I agree

<Fragmaster> that was sarcastic.

<@sponge> if you think trying to find a good serve rto join automatically is hard

<@sponge> matchmaking is 1000x harder

<Fragmaster> it is yes

<@sponge> so let play now serve to you as a preview of what matchmaking would be like if i had to make it myself

<Fragmaster> but you grow by your tasks

<Fragmaster> ;>

<winz> why?

<esdf> http://i.imgur.com/3InZm4S.png

<@sponge> because matchmaking is fucking hard, and you won't get it right the first, second, or third time

<@sponge> and the people playing the game won't give a shit if this is your first matchmaking system

<winz> perhaps it's worth hiring an outside contractor just for it?

<[eXodus]> better not try then

<winz> and with the steam release, it would have been the perfect time to do it

<@sponge> we don't have the time to find someone and bring them up to speed on our systems

<@sponge> we're talking at least 6 months of time from contracting the person to having something shippable

<@sponge> we don't even know who to contract

<@sponge> we don't have a candidate in mind

<Fragmaster> tbh

<Fragmaster> getting up to speed

<Fragmaster> is their problem, not yours

<Fragmaster> thats the big advantage of contractros

<@sponge> it doesn't matter whos problem it is

<Fragmaster> or consultants

<@sponge> it still means we are 6 months away from something usable

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<Fragmaster> who says that

<Fragmaster> maybe the tell you they will be done in 3 month

<@sponge> me, as someone who knows what goes into our system and having a decent idea of what goes into matchmaking

<Fragmaster> if they code it with a team of 5

<@sponge> lol we're not hiring 2.5x our current team for one feature

<Fragmaster> the price will be the same

<Fragmaster> its not about the ppl

<Fragmaster> its about a fixed price

<Fragmaster> they will tell you, that featuer will cost 30k (for example) and takes about 3 month

<[eXodus]> if u get a contracter its up to them how many resources they use at a time

<Fragmaster> it doesnt have to interesst you how many ppl they'll use to archive that

<@sponge> no, it does matter, because contracts aren't written to a nebulous group of people

<Fragmaster> you might even set the timeline

<Fragmaster> and tell them, you need in in 1 month

<@sponge> lol

<@sponge> yes this is how software development works

<+stownr> lol

<@sponge> you just tell people how soon you need it

<Fragmaster> eventhou that only goes to a certain limit

<@sponge> and it appears out of the ether

<@sponge> MATCHMAKING! ONE MONTH! GO!

<Fragmaster> no, it makes resources planable

<[eXodus]> thats what u pay for

<Fragmaster> they would then know how many ppl they need to archive that

<@sponge> and we'd pay a shitton to get something like that done in a month

<[eXodus]> they say they can do it in 5 months

<[eXodus]> thats what it is

<[eXodus]> maybe they say they need 4 months

<Fragmaster> man :>

<Fragmaster> i feel like speaking to someone who has no idea of projectmanagement

<@sponge> same

<Fragmaster> what you probably dont have

<Fragmaster> which is no insult

<Fragmaster> you are a webdeveloper

<Fragmaster> and you arent bad

<@sponge> i'm leaving this conversation now before i say something i regret

<@sponge> good day

<+stownr> Fragmaster would make is so if you do well you get put in a boss fight against cooller

<+ia> get some ut austin cs student to do it for their master's project

<+ia> and then give them an unpaid internship

<Fragmaster> tbh sponge

<+ia> $?

<vixterra> :^)

<Fragmaster> thats how it works, you write down what you need

<[eXodus]> paid internships are like 300 dollars a month anyway

<Fragmaster> and send those requirements to the different contractors

<+ia> no, more than that

<[eXodus]> Fragmaster

<Fragmaster> you also tell the timeline before (realistic one)

<+ia> idk about cs though

<[eXodus]> hes not interested in input

<Fragmaster> yea what ever

<Fragmaster> gonna go bbq

<+ia> tell them if [eXodus] isn't happy with it they're not getting a good recommendatoin letter

<Fragmaster> its useles :>

<Fragmaster> bb

<Drayan> well now what will we talk about

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<PredatH0r> delete * from #quakelive.focus where msgdate>='2014-08-09 17:00'

<PredatH0r> -*

<PredatH0r> hats?

<PredatH0r> cats and dogs?

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<ika> lol this exploded nicely while we were playing:D

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<PredatH0r> yea, shit hit the fan quite hard in here

<QBall147> living together?

<QBall147> mass histeria !

<Drayan> ebola

<esdf> <@sponge> and it appears out of the ether

<esdf> <@sponge> MATCHMAKING! ONE MONTH! GO!

<esdf> :D

<PredatH0r> time to devote myself to more serious business. gotta catch up with those ESR threads

<esdf> tbh i find it amazing you guys didnt start working on it the moment you found out you're going to steam

<esdf> hell, even if there was _no_ steam coming up, it's a must have feature

ika opens the box and inhales the smell of the pizza

QBall147 looks sternly at ika

ika feels sad that he can't give one slice to QBall147

[eXodus] looks at his empty plate of pizza

<PredatH0r> i pizza is also long gone already :(

QBall147 is about to cry :'(

<Semt-x> i had a lovely curry

<QBall147> you all hate me :(

<ika> what terrible thing did you have QBall147?

<Buck5> haggis curry da best

<Buck5> :D

<Semt-x> :P

<QBall147> havn't had anything yet

<QBall147> and probably wont

<ika> why:(

<Semt-x> do you live in etheopia?

<QBall147> sounds like you peeps have eaten it all lol

<Semt-x> or on the moon

<Buck5> hes on a diet

<QBall147> lol

<Buck5> :P

<[eXodus]> u can eat a carrot

<[eXodus]> maybe 2

<QBall147> that sounds suspiciously healthy hmm

<[eXodus]> its like the pizza of vegetables

<[eXodus]> dont worry

<QBall147> at least it isn't brocolli on pizza lol

<[eXodus]> that would be retarded

<[eXodus]> amirite cityy?

<QBall147> cityy :D

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<dAw00d_> i was just in a focus game

<dAw00d_> restarted internet to get a better ping

<dAw00d_> so had to restart client as well

<dAw00d_> and now i hve to update o_O

<dAw00d_> 36 mb

<ika> bitcoin is CIA, so sponge had to change the mining part to Dogecoin, you won't feel a thing

<ika> there was no update here, so it's strange, do you have some system restore in playce or something like that?

<ika> -y*

<dAw00d_> nope

<ika> well I just logged in and I did not download a thing

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<dAw00d_> weird

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<ika> well my dlls are also have date about now, are those getting touched at every launch?

<ika> looks like they are but those are far from being 36mb

<KingPsychopath> wot

<KingPsychopath> quake has bitcoins?

<ika> yes, spogne is mining on the machines of focus testers, did you read the focus TOS?:)

<ika> you agreed to it, it's how they support sponge for the weekend work

<KingPsychopath> wot

<KingPsychopath> mining

<[eXodus]> wot

<[eXodus]> good game

<[eXodus]> good matchmaking

<KingPsychopath> ika

<KingPsychopath> mining?

<ika> KingPsychopath you must ask Sync to remove you from the focus group if you do not agree

<KingPsychopath> Explain to me what it is

<ika> he makes money on your PC all the time when it's on, and he spend it on bitches

<KingPsychopath> Ah makes sense.

<KingPsychopath> And how does he do this :D

<ika> ask him, i don't know the details

<ika> he will tell you for sure

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<esdf> click team grab bag (?) -> join server named "vortex portal session"

<esdf> success.

<InFerNo_> http://pastebin.com/sFqzqaCh

<InFerNo_> so you're just going to throw everyone in tier3?

<InFerNo_> how's that going to prevent good new players from raping bad new players

<dAw00d_> yeah

<dAw00d_> ive

<dAw00d_> never

<dAw00d_> understood that part

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<InFerNo_> how fast is progression tiers occuring now?

<InFerNo_> how many matches do I have to win or lose?

<vixterra> esdf: getting put somewhere that isn't ctf4 is always a success

<WhoDX> 4+ for top -4 bottom

<WhoDX> something like that InFerNo_

<WhoDX> starting 50

<WhoDX> 80+ t4

<InFerNo_> I lose quite a bit lately and I'm still top tier CTF

<vixterra> max skill rating is like 200 or something though

<vixterra> so I mean there's a fair bit of buffer room in t4 before you drop to t3

<InFerNo_> you lost me

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<InFerNo_> ok, I understand there's a large buffer in top tier

<WhoDX> the cap is 999 vixterra

<InFerNo_> but what about tier3, where all these new accounts will be thrown in

<WhoDX> however for "match making" nothing above 100 is taken into account

<WhoDX> t3 is where current players are put in

<InFerNo_> yes

<esdf> InFerNo_, he means new accounts

<WhoDX> so influx = good

<vixterra> oh wow, really? I thought cap for player skill level was 200.

<esdf> aka steam accounts

<dAw00d_> why cant new accounts start at the very bottom

<vixterra> most people probably are better than t1

<InFerNo_> because supposedly, new players that are good will be destroying all the bad players that are in t1

<vixterra> if new account started at the very bottom, t1 would basically be a higher tier

<InFerNo_> that's why placement matches could be a good way to place the new steam accounts

<vixterra> placement matches should still not default to the lowest possible skill level

<InFerNo_> I never said that

<vixterra> I know, I'm just saying. It makes sense for the first placement match to be a tier 2 or 3 match rather than t1.

<InFerNo_> there's not easy solution and we're all throwing ideas

<InFerNo_> the fact that there's 100 different gametypes also complicates the matchmaking/tier placement

<baaked> yeah because some of the dumbest tactics succeed in ca

<InFerNo_> "all to bridge"

<InFerNo_> on your way there the timer runs out, you get caught and die

<InFerNo_> then you get kicked or voted to be kicked

<[Q50]> CA ://

<InFerNo_> there's a reason why I stopped using CA to warm up

<vixterra> I don't understand why CA is so popular

<vixterra> FFA is much more enjoyable imo

<InFerNo_> because it's dumbed down TDM

<InFerNo_> and they want to expand the idea of dumbing things down to everywhere in the game

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<InFerNo_> although dumbing down is a bad choice of words

<InFerNo_> making it easier to get into

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<InFerNo_> there's our leak!!

<InFerNo_> it was zoot_ !

<zoot_> :O

<zoot_> :(

<zoot_> you caught me

<InFerNo_> how could you?

<vixterra> someone leaked something again?

<zoot_> i was only trying to tell my sister

<MARIANO> duel with loadouts looks like a half-CA without stack, most retarded change i've ever seen...

<InFerNo_> but while the stream was still on?

<PredatH0r> and you forgot you were on stream?!?

<InFerNo_> couldn't you wait to tell your sister afterwards?

<zoot_> haha wtf xD

<zoot_> ok now im paranoid

<zoot_> don't hurt me

<InFerNo_> we'll let this one slide

<zoot_> :D

<PredatH0r> gonna be interesting to watch zoot streaming after he got banned

<InFerNo_> "ok let's jump right into the game now, hey what's this?" *YOU ARE BANNED*

<zoot_> haha

<InFerNo_> in light of the lg nerf

<InFerNo_> you think a 3 tier lg is something worth testing again?

<InFerNo_> 765 ?

<InFerNo_> 876 ?

<zoot_> eurgh

<zoot_> no

<zoot_> hrmm actually

<zoot_> on second thoughts

<[Q50]> 5 5 4

<InFerNo_> it came from 8 in VQ3

<[Q50]> tbh

<zoot_> maybe... but im not sure if it's necessary to overcomplicate it

<dAw00d_> sponge, when you change ruleset from QL to CLASSIC in duel, the ammo boxes lose their texture and they only appear as 3 lines until they are picked up and they respawn

<InFerNo_> 2 tiered 76 ?

<dAw00d_> lg is fine imo if the rest of weapons are not changed

<InFerNo_> what I understood is that more will be added and some will be removed

<vixterra> bring back lg in water = everyone is kill

<vixterra> :)

<InFerNo_> uurgh

<InFerNo_> then I want headshots.

<zoot_> i want a scope on railgun

<zoot_> so that zoom only works on rg

<InFerNo_> go back to Quake 4

<zoot_> :D

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<dAw00d_> also: QL ruleset duel is so stupid

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<dAw00d> dont have that in pubs please.

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<MARIANO> they make all game modes similar to ca, nonsense

<MARIANO> i don't get it

<MARIANO> ...

<ika> I vote for 765 lg with a very wide 6 part, so 7 would be only in effect at very close range (and I mean it very close) and 5 at very far only

<T1E> how about 7 if rl and rg get boosted?

<InFerNo_> it's 7 now

<PredatH0r> i'd keep RL and RG as-is and LG at 666

<InFerNo_> in prod

<szr> personally I like it the way it is

<szr> in prod

<szr> :/

<PredatH0r> lg is way to strong

<T1E> I think full splash should do 99

<T1E> don't care about rg

<szr> if it was 7-7-7 with 90RG and these new rockets

<szr> I think it would be fine

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<T1E> lg is op in lower levels

<szr> but LG has been weakened

<InFerNo_> and health and armor should count up instead of down ;[

<szr> whilst everything else strenghtened

<szr> LG should be left alone

<szr> but RG + RL increased

<InFerNo_> they did that so hmg would be favored in certain situations

<PerpetualWar> lg should have same strength over distance

<PredatH0r> the old weapon balance was fine, except for LG being too strong

<PredatH0r> its only drawback was the sound, but it works in basically every range

<InFerNo_> having it tiered would also prevent people from getting too close

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<InFerNo_> and again, favor hmg, which is what they wanted

<InFerNo_> the person with the lg is also forced to use it as a +forward weapon instead of trying to keep people at a distance

<InFerNo_> I'm telling you, 876 or 76 doesn't sound too bad

<szr> 876 then :P

<szr> I will take that

<PredatH0r> you want to BUFF it near range?

<InFerNo_> yes

<InFerNo_> +forward

<ika> ppl hitting 40+lg after 15 years, 8 is OP

<PredatH0r> indeed

<ika> my vote is 765:p

<InFerNo_> they don't get too close in your case

<PredatH0r> and the internet got a lot better, so many more low ping LG players

<InFerNo_> I never see lg battles where people get in the 8 range

<ika> isn't it 666 now on focus?

<InFerNo_> do you push forward and commit or back off and try to get away?

<InFerNo_> yes it's 666 now

<InFerNo_> and/or whip out hmg

<szr> 6-6-6 is too weak when you take the new damages for the RG and RL into account imho

<ika> close push needs to be encouraged I would raise it back to 7

<InFerNo_> or you know, just shoot in their general vicinity with the RL and score 100 dmg :/

<szr> the 8-7-6 idea might be good

<InFerNo_> yes ika, I was thinking 2 tiered 7-6

<PredatH0r> buffing lg would make bad things worse

<InFerNo_> but the 8 range in 876 can be fairly short

<InFerNo_> how is this a buff?

<PredatH0r> but maybe in lower tiers it's differently

<ika> InFerNo_ make the last 2-3 meters 5:p

<PredatH0r> since they dont really hit that hard

<InFerNo_> how close do you get with the LG?

<InFerNo_> actually I don't know if it's possible to adjust the tier ranges individually

<InFerNo_> but I thought it was a good idea to counter the nerf, by nerfing it over long range, but buffing it short range

<szr> why wouldnt it be possible?

<InFerNo_> I'm not the programmer, I didn't see the code that is responsible for it

<InFerNo_> think of all the other things they're working on

<szr> anything which is physically possible, is possible :p

<muckyman> 666 isn`t even a nerf....newbies will still get destroyed by LG

<InFerNo_> it came from 8, now it's 7 and it will be 6

<PredatH0r> guys, keep in mind: we wont be playing against newbies

<vixterra> "666 isn't even a nerf"

<szr> its a massive nerf when you consider the new RL and RG

<szr> its like making it 4-4-4 with the old settings

<szr> xD

<vixterra> Just because it wont effect a certain userbase

<vixterra> doesn't mean it isn't a nerf

<muckyman> most of us wont be on standard servers either

<ika> muckyman there is no setting which would protect newbies, even from your gauntlet, if they won't be separated from us, they will just leave for sure

<InFerNo_> these things are global

<InFerNo_> I understand giving players loadouts and having no loadouts in "classic"

<ika> I bet any of is would do just fine with gauntlet only on a tier3 server

<InFerNo_> but having different damages on top of that is too big of a gap

<ika> any of us*

<InFerNo_> so this guy wants to try the classic mode, he's been playing with loadouts for a while

<PredatH0r> i dont see a reason to buff RG or RL. only to reduce LG a bit

<winz> how could you understand loadouts

<InFerNo_> he joins a classic through an invite and the first thing he notices is that he now has to find weapons

<winz> it doesn't fit quake at all

<InFerNo_> but he also gets ripped to shit by a 777 LG

<winz> never did

<ika> ^^

<muckyman> Lg is THE only weapon thats to dominant

<InFerNo_> look winz

<winz> and loadouts don't belong in duel/tdm/ctf

<muckyman> all the rest are fine

<InFerNo_> is clan arena considered quake?

<winz> if you want weapons on spawn there is a mode for that

<winz> called CA

<InFerNo_> you don't get to pick a loadout, you just spawn with everything at once

<InFerNo_> that's even worse

<winz> it doesn't have its place in tdm whatsoever

<szr> RG can make or break a game

<szr> more than LG

<szr> if you hit rails you win

<WhoDX> 14, 08, 09] [20:19:02] <InFerNo_> but he also gets ripped to shit by a 777 LG

<WhoDX> wasnt lg dmg change across board

<muckyman> yes

<InFerNo_> yes

<InFerNo_> that's my point

<InFerNo_> that you highlighted

<InFerNo_> read my 2 lines above that one

<WhoDX> tdm > ffa with teams

<InFerNo_> it's a story :)

<winz> thing is, there are modes that are designed just for that

<winz> not having to pick up weapons laying on the ground

<winz> why the fuck would you ruin all the modes with that shit

<winz> it's just stupid

<InFerNo_> thing is, you can't convince the devs from not going through with it

<winz> I know

<WhoDX> the only game mode which doesnt have that is tdm

<winz> remains utterly stupid

<InFerNo_> we're better of suggesting tweaks

<WhoDX> so its unfication of modes.. agree dumb thou :)

<WhoDX> 5s respawn bleh ;f

<WhoDX> item timers too.. but item timers easier to live with :

<WhoDX> ))

<WhoDX> !w

<Dingbot> 1 player(s) available: Pâ€‹redatH0r

<PredatH0r> !r

<WhoDX> PredatH0r want a duel?

<PredatH0r> :P

<PredatH0r> ok

<WhoDX> i might need a pause for 1 min thou :P