We are currently talking about this issue in the mod forum. We take this issue very seriously, and want to find the best way to serve those who want faster results, and those that don't wish to be spoiled.

drcatellino Profile Blog Joined April 2010 Canada 346 Posts Last Edited: 2011-10-14 14:01:48 #1



After IPL3 finals, when you arrived at TL website you saw... nothing. It’s basically like if the event just didn’t happen, or if the outcome wasn’t interesting enough to publicize it in the main page. I know the reasons behind this are SPOILERS, as this community is spread into differents timezones and some people might want to watch the finals later on and still visit TL without being spoiled. I completely understand these reasons, but I think they are detrimental to the growth of E-sports (lol). Part of why people love sports is the story-telling part of it. Even if you watched a hockey game and know exactly what happened, you still like to read about it in newspapers later on, to see pictures of players at the emotion-peak of the game. This help establish a connection between the audience and the sport.



No, gaming is not a dating show, but it is important to show the “human” aspect of it. Yes, I wanted a huge picture of Stephano



Imagine if the night of the finals from the Stanley cup finals (hockey), you went to nhl.com, only to see a random bunch of stats, and to know what was going on in the game you had to had to reach the forums, go to some obscure thread, all of this just in case someone from another timezone would have been pissed if the results were updated live in the front page. If you are a hockey fan and a frequent user of the site maybe you wouln’t mind at all, but if you tried to get interested in the hockey scene and couln’t find the results/wrap-up straight on the main page, you would have been disoriented and just went back to watching curling instead.



“But I don’t want to be spoiled !”



First, are spoilers that big of a deal? How many of you watch a game from an important tournament later on without checking the results before-hand? I know the first thing I do in the morning after a big night of GSL, I check the results and if I have time I’ll watch the games, knowing the results beforehand won’t change my excitement about it.



I know that there is still a small amount of TLers that really don’t want to be spoiled at all, I can respect this, but maybe an alternate spoiler-less TL gateway should be created, which would give links to tournament without spoiling anything. But this should not be the main page. If you don’t want to be spoiled, you should not go to TL main page anyway (in my dream-like super Esports friendly TL main page). I don’t think that every tournament results should be posted on the main page at the minute it’s done, be it should be the importants finals.



Do we really want to have an anticlimactic homepage just to please the 5% spoilers-freaks people ?



Tl;dr: Most sports websites are instantly updated with headlines of the big events, this helps create a connection between the crowd and the sport, mostly for the casual viewers. This connection is absent with Teamliquid and the SC2 community because of the “spoiler fear”. TL mainpage should be updated with headlines results of the big events and a spoiler-free gateway could be created for the spoilers freaks.



Poll: Do think live tournament results on TL frontpage is a good idea ?



Yes (4507)

86%



No (386)

7%



Yes, but only if TL add a spoilerfree VOD page that is easily accessible. (364)

7%



5257 total votes (4507)86%(386)7%(364)7%5257 total votes Your vote: Do think live tournament results on TL frontpage is a good idea ? (Vote): Yes

(Vote): No

(Vote): Yes, but only if TL add a spoilerfree VOD page that is easily accessible.





EDIT: added some fine folks point of view.



Klogon

+ Show Spoiler + I go to my TV to watch football or my DVR recorded soccer games.

I go to ESPN.com for sports news.



I go to TL.net to watch SC2 live or find links to VODs.

I go to TL.net for esports news.



--



Now throw in the fact that we are an international site with many timezones and schedules.



Is the difference clear enough there? As the hub for both the viewing experience and the news, the only way we can accommodate both is if we keep the front page spoiler free for at least some time.



As far as spoilers go? Yes, they are a big deal. If you spoil something for me somewhere where you were not supposed to, I would probably ban you. I am the type of person who does not watch trailers for movies because it spoils 2 minutes of the movie for me. Some people care a lot and it detracts from the viewing experience. I'd even go as far as to say spoilering the results ahead of time would be hurting esports more by not allowing the delayed viewers the same epic experience as the live viewers.



And no, this is not hurting ESPORTS.



Liquid'Tyler

+ Show Spoiler +

I agree with the OP. I'm against censoring open discussion of results for the sake of a few odd people who are "victims" of spoilers. Their habits are weird enough for the rest of us to not care about them and they are obviously the minority. If they want a web site where results aren't openly discussed, they should make their own little niche web site and leave this one alone.

In regular sports, when a team wins an important championship, you go to fan/league website to see a huge image in the main page with the people from the team, all happy, smiling and holding the trophy in the air. And then you have a catchy title that says “ Jamaican curling team does it ! Miracle victory”. This create hype, excitement, and make the whole curling/Jamaican community feel like that this is the ONE important news that everyone attention is directed to at the moment.After IPL3 finals, when you arrived at TL website you saw... nothing. It’s basically like if the event just didn’t happen, or if the outcome wasn’t interesting enough to publicize it in the main page. I know the reasons behind this are SPOILERS, as this community is spread into differents timezones and some people might want to watch the finals later on and still visit TL without being spoiled. I completely understand these reasons, but I think they are detrimental to the growth of E-sports (lol). Part of why people love sports is the story-telling part of it. Even if you watched a hockey game and know exactly what happened, you still like to read about it in newspapers later on, to see pictures of players at the emotion-peak of the game. This help establish a connection between the audience and the sport.No, gaming is not a dating show, but it is important to show the “human” aspect of it. Yes, I wanted a huge picture of + Show Spoiler + Imagine if the night of the finals from the Stanley cup finals (hockey), you went to nhl.com, only to see a random bunch of stats, and to know what was going on in the game you had to had to reach the forums, go to some obscure thread, all of this just in case someone from another timezone would have been pissed if the results were updated live in the front page. If you are a hockey fan and a frequent user of the site maybe you wouln’t mind at all, but if you tried to get interested in the hockey scene and couln’t find the results/wrap-up straight on the main page, you would have been disoriented and just went back to watching curling instead.First, are spoilers that big of a deal? How many of you watch a game from an important tournament later on without checking the results before-hand? I know the first thing I do in the morning after a big night of GSL, I check the results and if I have time I’ll watch the games, knowing the results beforehand won’t change my excitement about it.I know that there is still a small amount of TLers that really don’t want to be spoiled at all, I can respect this, but maybe an alternate spoiler-less TL gateway should be created, which would give links to tournament without spoiling anything. But this should not be the main page. If you don’t want to be spoiled, you should not go to TL main page anyway (in my dream-like super Esports friendly TL main page). I don’t think that every tournament results should be posted on the main page at the minute it’s done, be it should be the importants finals.Do we really want to have an anticlimactic homepage just to please the 5% spoilers-freaks people ?: Most sports websites are instantly updated with headlines of the big events, this helps create a connection between the crowd and the sport, mostly for the casual viewers. This connection is absent with Teamliquid and the SC2 community because of the “spoiler fear”. TL mainpage should be updated with headlines results of the big events and a spoiler-free gateway could be created for the spoilers freaks. quote unquote

Orcasgt24 Profile Joined August 2011 Canada 3203 Posts #2 I kinda think it is. When i don't wanna know the outcome of the PvRed hockey game I don't go onto sports websites and do my best to not talk to people who would tell me. I feel like Team Liquid should be one of the last places you should go if you do not want to know who won a game. In Hearthstone we pray to RNGesus. When Yogg-Saron hits the field, RNGod gets to work

Clearout Profile Blog Joined April 2010 Norway 1027 Posts Last Edited: 2011-10-12 15:56:13 #3 No thank you, I'm scared enough to browse TL when I haven't been up to date with GSL.



Edit: I go to TL for much more than e-sports, I do not wish to HAVE to watch games without being spoiled. Then the games become a chore I have to do, or get spoiled. Also I do not believe I am part of a 5% group, I believe a lot more people don't want to be spoilered. Yet we still want to be able to go to TL for other reasons. really?

Warlock40 Profile Joined September 2011 601 Posts #4 It'd be nice, sure, but I'm fine with waking up in the morning, going to the LR threads (for GSL), and checking the spoilers. TL sort of does what you ask for their own team, though.

andy186 Profile Joined September 2010 Australia 651 Posts #5 It is personal preference some people don't care about knowing who wins some do and TL seems to have a lot of people who hate being spoiled. I have seen people discussing some matches that happened 2 weeks ago and someone comes in and starts shouting at them that they spoiled the game for them.



TL is a starcraft news site though and that was big news but i guess in most cases if you were checking TL the second stephano won you would know anyway so for TL to have a huge picture on the front page is somewhat redundant and just annoys the people who don't want to be spoiled. Like you said in the post you can quite easily check.



Would be interesting if TL did a poll on it though to gauge the actual response as I have no idea what the numbers are.

polysciguy Profile Joined August 2010 United States 487 Posts #6 I agree with the sentiment that the op is posting. You dont want to know the results beforehand dont go to places youll find them

glory is fleeting, but obscurity is forever---napoleon

Vehemus Profile Joined November 2010 United States 586 Posts #7 I agree with this completely, but most people seem to be on the other side. There's no such thing as spoilers in sports unless the games are not being broadcast live and someone is leaking the results early. This space for rent.

ch33psh33p Profile Blog Joined October 2010 3039 Posts Last Edited: 2011-10-12 15:52:03 #8 Its not spoiler fear.



Its people who post and whine about spoilers, even though they've already seen the games and only whine because they can.



This creates a stigma where everyone is afraid to talk about an epic game, at least until a year has passed.



And there was an article published recently that showed that knowing the results of a game/movie/whatever doesn't influence negatively your anticipation or excitement for the event, or during it, as you watch a replay. secret - never again

Paperplane Profile Joined March 2011 Netherlands 1672 Posts #9 On October 13 2011 00:43 drcatellino wrote:

Do we really want to have an anticlimactic homepage just to please the 5% spoilers-freaks people ?





61.3% of statistics on the internet are made up. You may not care about spoilers but others do. 61.3% of statistics on the internet are made up. You may not care about spoilers but others do.

windsupernova Profile Joined October 2010 Mexico 5272 Posts #10 Geee lots of stuff is hurting e sports this days....





That being said, I do agree that the spoilers fear thing is and always has been kinda stupid, but no its not hurting e sports "Its easy, just trust your CPU".-Boxer on being good at games

MR KING Profile Joined January 2011 Sweden 141 Posts #11 Poll: Is the fear of spoilers hurting esports?



Yes! (709)

86%



Nope! (117)

14%



826 total votes (709)86%(117)14%826 total votes Your vote: Is the fear of spoilers hurting esports? (Vote): Yes!

(Vote): Nope!





Like a Boss Profile Joined January 2011 497 Posts #12 I agree with the OP. I always go check the results of a game first if I cant catch it live and then go watch the vods. Spoilers dont bother me.

Blenderhead Profile Joined April 2010 United States 29 Posts #13 The prevalence of VODs in the esports world is the reason for the spoiler-fear. In traditional sports, if you miss the TV broadcast(s) then there's no guarantee that you'll be able to watch the game anyway. Sites then operate on the assumption that you've seen the games, or you missed them and want the results.



Here, since VODs are provided by most big tourneys, (and in BW I could find most of the OSL/MSL VODs on youtube), the community doesn't operate on the assumption that everyone watched the game at one set time.



I think it's a good practice, and something that makes esports different from traditional sports.

Talin Profile Blog Joined September 2010 Montenegro 9071 Posts #14



Sometimes results are notoriously hard to get by as well, notably MLG Global Invitational recently doesn't update their brackets right away and you have to figure out who won based on the comments in the thread. -_-



But then again I can appreciate that probably the majority doesn't see things this way, so...



Unrelated to TL and Starcraft, I hate the spoiler culture on the internet. It feels like wherever you go these days, you have to watch what you're talking about and you can't talk about tv shows, books, movies, etc. as you would with an ordinary person. -_- To be honest I'd rather have latest results hit me in the face the moment I enter TL, or at least being one click away from them. Having to go through individual tournament threads and click a tree of nested spoiler tags to get there isn't really optimal.Sometimes results are notoriously hard to get by as well, notably MLG Global Invitational recently doesn't update their brackets right away and you have to figure out who won based on the comments in the thread. -_-But then again I can appreciate that probably the majority doesn't see things this way, so...Unrelated to TL and Starcraft, I hate the spoiler culture on the internet. It feels like wherever you go these days, you have to watch what you're talking about and you can't talk about tv shows, books, movies, etc. as you would with an ordinary person. -_-

ntvarify Profile Blog Joined October 2010 United States 331 Posts #15 On October 13 2011 00:43 drcatellino wrote:

Tl;dr: Most sports websites are instantly updated with headlines of the big events, this helps create a connection between the crowd and the sport, mostly for the casual viewers. This connection is absent with Teamliquid and the SC2 community because of the “spoiler fear”. TL mainpage should be updated with headlines results of the big events and a spoiler-free gateway could be created for the spoilers freaks.



I wonder if it would be possible to do such a things, except make it optional. Like, you have to go to your profile and check that you want it, or check that you don't want it. Something like that. I wonder if it would be possible to do such a things, except make it optional. Like, you have to go to your profile and check that you want it, or check that you don't want it. Something like that.

drcatellino Profile Blog Joined April 2010 Canada 346 Posts #16 To understand my point I think you have to put yourself in the shoes of a SC newcomer. I want to tell my friends “Go on teamliquid, it’s THE place to go when you want to follow the scene”. If they arrive and don’t know what is going on and feel the excitement of the tournament straight away, they might just leave. A front page with a picture of the IPL3 winner is redundant if you are F5ing the LR thread constantly, but it is not if you are a casual viewer that is mildly interested in knowing what is happening in the tournament. quote unquote

aebriol Profile Joined April 2010 Norway 2065 Posts #17 Regular sports are done at a time when you can watch it.



Imagine all sports you watch were played at 11:am - 3pm, or at 01 am to 7 am.



Spoiler for 24 hours is good!

Le BucheRON Profile Joined May 2010 Canada 617 Posts #18 really good thoughts, I tend to agree. Although I hate getting spoiled (Watched the match before Jinro's last round of 4 match that had the score posted in the comments... fuuuuuuu). But as long as there is a way I can get to and watch the videos I don't want spoilered there is no reason for there not to be a sweet picture of Stephano on the front page.



Look, if you don't want to know the results of a tournament, take a break from TL for a day until you watch the tourney! Guess who`s special?!

Mohdoo Profile Joined August 2007 United States 12462 Posts #19 There is a reason that the situation for e-sports is different from sports.



Physical sports aren't nearly as depth-dependent as strategy games. Most joe-schmoe sports viewers don't know anything about the depth of the game and don't really care. They just watch it to watch it. They know what a good play looks like, sorta, but that's it.



SC2, on the other hand, is extremely reliant on the games themselves. Results aren't the punchline. Take the recent Stephano performance for example. His actual gameplay was much more important than the results themselves. Because of this, a lot of people make sure they watch the games themselves. If someone misses a basketball game or a football game or something, it is a lot less important to watch the games. And people do stuff like watch highlights, lol.



TLDR: The sports community is more fickle, cares less about the depth of the game, and takes it less seriously than the SC2 community.



There are already spoilered threads to discuss the games in, so I dunno what you're even talking about.

ManaO Profile Joined April 2011 Italy 185 Posts #20 It depends on the people's intelligence. I love it when, for example, people complain about spoilers in the comments of a GSL VoD. Why would you read the comments before watching the match? There is not one valid reason to do so, and if you get spoiled via that, you're dumb.



No fear, Dr. Smith is here

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