“People would say ‘if you do stories about porn, you’re not going to get featured in the New York Times’”JON RONSON | INTERVIEW

Jon Ronson

Following two hit podcasts about the porn industry, Tales From The Last Days Of August and The Butterfly Effect, Jon Ronson arrives back in his hometown of Cardiff with a unique show following on from his experiences. He talks to Rhys Fisher.

Can you tell us a little bit about the tour? We know it’s based on the podcasts, but is it going to differ or expand upon any of the things discussed there?

It’s going to be very different. I don’t want to do a show that’s just repeating what’s already out there. So it’s going to be about the porn world but it’s also about a lot of other things; it’s about mental health, it’s about journalism, it’s about ethics, it’s about empathy, but it’s also very funny. I think it’s going to start very funny, and then grow increasingly bleak, kind of like life, and then I want to try and find a way to bring it round and make it funny again.

I suppose that’ll be part of the challenge, taking it from bleak to funny?

Yeah, it’s similar to my early journeys into the porn world, which were really funny and sweet and human, but then everything got quite a lot darker. I think I’ve learned a lot in the last three years.

Your style of ‘gonzo journalism’ goes against some classic journalistic conventions. Have you ever faced any sort of prejudice or judgement from others in the profession because of this?

I mean, nothing serious. People have scrutinised me – I suppose when you become well-known, your head’s above the parapet, but I’ve never really found anything too intense. I’ve been a very ethical journalist over the years, and more ethical as I get older. These days, ethics, morality, and empathy mean more to me than they ever have. But ethics have always been there, partly because I’m anxious, and the last thing in the world I want to do is to make a mistake and have it come back to haunt me.

A lot of what’s striking about your work is the obscure nature of the subjects and concepts that you look at. How do you decide on these topics? Are there any processes you go through or follow?

The first word that comes into my mind is mystery. Other journalists have a subject that they’re passionate about and then they explore that subject from lots of different angles. I can’t do that, because I don’t see myself as an expert, I see myself as somebody who solves mysteries, which means that I can never return to the same subject more than once. I’m always looking for something about the world that I really don’t understand, and if I try and understand it, it will be a good adventure. I’m looking for a journey I can go on that will be exciting and entertaining and funny, but also dark and serious, and a combination of those contradictory terms. Then basically I’m hoping this mystery and journey will shed some light on the way that our world works. That’s always the kind of formula that I’m looking for.

A common theme amongst the people who appeared on The Last Days of August and The Butterfly Effect podcasts, was the stigmatisation that they felt from being involved in the porn industry. Did you ever feel stigmatised at all for being involved with the industry, even if it was only in a documenting role?

There was a little bit of prejudice I would say. People would say to me ‘well if you do stories about porn, you know you’re not going to get featured in the New York Times’. Also, it’s much harder to sell advertising if it’s a story about porn: BMW aren’t going to want to link themselves to us. The other thing was, if I was doing corporate talks they didn’t want me to talk about my porn experiences, because they were afraid it might make the audience feel uncomfortable. However, I want to caveat all of that by saying that I’m in a really fortunate position: I’m well known, my career is pretty sealed in stone at this point, and I don’t think anything will ever happen now that will stop me from working. I’m in a really privileged position that I can do difficult stories like porn, and people will still listen. I’ll still get a good audience, because people like my work anyway and I’m more immune to that sort of stigma than other people are. I think society has changed a little bit. I think people are more accepting of those kinds of stories than they would have been 20 or 30 years ago. These days there’s a lot more of what people call ‘sex positivity’, but there’s still a long way to go.

When I was listening to The Butterfly Effect I very much empathised with and warmed towards [porn director] Mike Quasar, and couldn’t help but picturing Fabian [Thylmann, founder of internet porn conglomerate Manwin] as this tech giant, Bond villain character. If the podcast was made into a film, who would you choose to play Mike and Fabian?

Actually there has been decent talk of it possibly being made into a film. The thing with Mike is he has a sort of grizzled warmth to him, so who would have that kind of grizzled warmth? He’s miserable but also very funny about his misery, so maybe someone like Paul Giamatti. I mean they don’t look anything like each other but he does have that same sort of hangdog expression. And with Fabian, you know he’s not a Bond villain really, he’s just an entrepreneur like so many people are. But who would play the sort of tech nerd role? What popped into my head was Michael Fassbender playing Steve Jobs. So there you go, Michael Fassbender and Paul Giamatti.

Jon Ronson: Tales From The Last Days Of August & The Butterfly Effect, St David’s Hall, Cardiff. Tickets: £27.50. Info: 029 2087 8444 / www.stdavidshallcardiff.co.uk