Michael Brissenden reported this story on Monday, February 16, 2015 08:00:00

MICHAEL BRISSENDEN: The Prime Minister says people who might be a threat to Australia have been getting the benefit of the doubt for too long.



TONY ABBOTT: For too long, we have given those who might be a threat to our country the benefit of the doubt.



There's been the benefit of the doubt at our borders, the benefit of the doubt for residency, the benefit of the doubt for citizenship and the benefit of the doubt at Centrelink.



MICHAEL BRISSENDEN: Mr Abbott's comments in a video address delivered overnight signal a tougher approach to national security although no details have been provided.



The Federal Government is also moving on maintaining the values of pensions by reducing the social security deeming rates. Deeming rates determine how much money retirees can earn from their investments before it impacts on their pension.



Scott Morrison is the Minister for Social Services so he has responsibility for Centrelink and for pensions. And he's also been a member of the Government's National Security Committee.



He joins me now. Mr Morrison, welcome to the program.



SCOTT MORRISON: Good morning Michael.



MICHAEL BRISSENDEN: We'll get to national security issues shortly, but if we can look at the pension changes first. According to your calculations the changes will see those known as part pensioners, those who derive some of their income from investments, given an extra $83 or so a year - doesn't sound like that much.



SCOTT MORRISON: Well it's a modest increase, it's a small increase, but it's an important increase and it says very clearly that as economic circumstances change for part pensioners, for those on disability pension, carers' payments, things like this, then the Government needs to make adjustments so they can deal with those circumstances. And that's what we've done.



Now this will be in addition to the changes that are made in every September and every March, so there will be a further increase then. And what this says is contrary to Bill Shorten trying to scare pensioners that pension is going down, it's just not true. They're going up, they will continue to go up. And the Government does understand the pressures facing pensioners and cost of living increases and other economic changes.



MICHAEL BRISSENDEN: But you do still have plans don't you to change the indexation calculation from using percentage of average weekly earnings to the CPI? And if that is done isn't it true that pensions would already be $30 a week less and could fall further, perhaps up to $80 a week, over the next 10 years?



SCOTT MORRISON: Well CPI increases have been higher than the other benchmark to date, in terms of the changes that have been made. And it's all about keeping pace with the cost of living. And it's about making sure that the pension is sustainable for the next generation, not just the current one. And look they're discussions that are ongoing.



But today's announcement is about ensuring that the changes to what's happening to the financial markets mean that those who are on part pensions, on carers' payments, they'll be receiving some additional support.



It's modest, but, you know, you can't go around with unfunded empathy here, Michael. You can't go around as Bill Shorten is doing agreeing with everybody, but funding nothing. I mean, he's got a plan to scare pensioners. Our plan is to support pensioners.



MICHAEL BRISSENDEN: But are you still committed to pushing forward with the changes to the indexation?



SCOTT MORRISON: Look, these matters remain on the table and we continue to discuss them with the cross benchers.



And if anyone's got a better idea about how you make the pension sustainable, one of the fastest growing rates of growth in public expenditure, more sustainable, then they're welcome to bring that the table.



But the rules are the same for the Opposition as they are for the Government - you've got to be able to fund your changes and Bill Shorten is funding nothing; it's unfunded empathy.



MICHAEL BRISSENDEN: And you're still committed to pushing the pension age up to 70?



SCOTT MORRISON: Well we've got to address the issues of the sustainability of the pension over time.



Now I should be very clear, that does not relate to people who are currently 61 and 55, those, that generation of Australians went through their working life with a very clear deal with the Australian government; that is you work hard over the course of your life, then there is a pension at the other end.



Now in my generation the deal was very different. We provide for our own, our superannuation and our own retirement incomes wherever we can. And I think this is a generational shift - which the previous government supported in lifting the age to 67, so it's a bit rich for them now to somehow be totally opposed to that idea.



That's a long term reform. It has no immediate impact on the budget over the forward estimates. But it's an important long term reform that we need to come to terms with as we transition to a healthier ageing population.



MICHAEL BRISSENDEN: Okay. On national security you've been a member of the National Security Committee. Has this idea of cancelling citizenship for dual nationals engaged in terrorism, has that been discussed in the past? Is it a good idea?



SCOTT MORRISON: Well of course you wouldn't expect me to go into what is discussed in the National Security Committee, but certainly in the public domain this is a topic that's been ventilated. It's been ventilated in the Parliament, there was a private member's motion on this in the Parliament last year, which was a very interesting debate to watch and to observe. And the Government's obviously been mindful about those proposals for some time.



MICHAEL BRISSENDEN: Is it a plan you have?



SCOTT MORRISON: Well, again, I'm not on the National Security Committee of cabinet any longer; I'm on the ERC (Expenditure Review Committee). And I wouldn't be going into any discussions of the NSC anyway, Michael. I don't think you'd expect me to do that.



MICHAEL BRISSENDEN: Okay, well Tony Abbott's statement yesterday said, among other things, "for too long we've given those who might be a threat to our country the benefit of the doubt," and he says, "and in the courts there's been bail when clearly there should have been jail."



What exactly does that mean? Does that mean that accepted legal process will be overlooked in terror cases?



SCOTT MORRISON: Well, let me give an example of when I was immigration minister. I introduced a bill called the Protection and Other Measures Bill, and what that said, it strengthened provisions where people couldn't prove who they were, who were seeking protection visas in Australia, then they would not be given the benefit of the doubt.



Now that legislation sits in the Parliament right now. It's opposed by the Labor Party. It's put in by the Government. And I think that's a very practical demonstration of the sorts of things that need to change to ensure that Australia's laws, when it comes to these matters, are as strong as they can be. Now that measure sits on the Senate table.



MICHAEL BRISSENDEN: But what about this idea of not giving people bail when they should, and just keeping them in jail?



SCOTT MORRISON: Well, look, that's principally a matters for the states and others and I think it's an important discussion for all level of governments to have, when you look at what happened in Martin Place, about all the issues that arose from that, and, you now, the integration of the use of information, the sharing of information across agencies, the way we work together. And that applies as equally from agencies from which now I'm responsible through to those which I was formally responsible.



MICHAEL BRISSENDEN: Sure, so there should be exceptions for, in terror cases you think, in the legal process?



SCOTT MORRISON: Well, I'm not saying that at all, Michael. I don't know why you'd seek to verbal me in that way. But all I'm simply saying is that the incidence that have taken place has caused the Government to once again look at these matters.



Now previously we put $630 million into beefing up the resources for our security agencies. When I was in border protection we put back $700 million into our border protection agencies that had been stripped out by the previous government.



Now I think we've got a very strong record of putting our money where our mouth is when it comes to ensuring that the, the strength of our security agencies.



But there's a broader issue here about ensuring that our laws are strong enough to help our public servants. Our officials, those who work at Centrelink, they are implementing the laws we currently have and they do a great job under a lot of stress. And the Government will continue to support them by giving them the laws and regs they need to ensure that we do the right thing.



MICHAEL BRISSENDEN: Can I just ask you quickly about the two Australians facing execution in Indonesia. As a senior minister in the Government, does it concern you that Indonesia seems intent on pushing ahead with this, despite the diplomatic and political efforts made to stop it?



SCOTT MORRISON: Well this is an enormously distressing situation I think and Australians feel that right across the country. Of course these two young men obviously have done something which they very much regret. And the representations that have been made will continue to be made and I'm not going to saying anything here that might jeopardise those.

But my thoughts and prays are very much with them and their families. The transformation of those two young men is quite remarkable and I think it says a lot potentially about how the system works there that young men like that can change in that way.



And it really is a very grieving situation. I commend the Prime Minister and the Foreign Minister and thank the Opposition and all political parties for the unity of purpose that we've had on this.



MICHAEL BRISSENDEN: Alright, and just finally, was it a good idea to sack Philip Ruddock from the position as party whip?



SCOTT MORRISON: Well they're matters for the Prime Minister. All I know about Philip Ruddock is he's the greatest immigration minister we've ever had. I know he took on that job as chief whip at the request of the PM. I don't think he was hanging around in the Parliament for 40 years to become the chief whip. He's a very loyal, very trusted and very respected colleague. And as I said, he's the best immigration minster this country's ever had and he helped me greatly in the work I did this time round to stop the boats. And I think that's the word on Philip Ruddock.



MICHAEL BRISSENDEN: The Prime Minister said he did it because he wasn't aware of the discontent among his backbench. I mean, isn't it the Prime Minister's job to talk to the backbench?



SCOTT MORRISON: Well that's your, Michael, again that's your paraphrase of what the Prime Minister said. I don't think that's exactly what he said and I don't think that's a very helpful reflection on it.



MICHAEL BRISSENDEN: So that wasn't the reason why he was dispensed?



SCOTT MORRISON: Well that's a matter for the Prime Minister. But you're again interpreting things the Prime Minister said in a way that I don't think he intended them.



MICHAEL BRISSENDEN: Okay, thanks. Scott Morrison, thanks very much.



SCOTT MORRISON: Thanks a lot, Michael.