pereza0 Profile Joined October 2016 17 Posts Last Edited: 2018-01-11 15:00:52 #1 INTRODUCTION



Since LOTV got introduced, Adepts and Disruptors have gone through quite a few revisions. But in my opinion, there has always been a constant throughout all these changes: These unit's abilities are somewhat clunky to use. This is a bad thing, considering both of the abilities cause the unit to split in two instances of itself you can control separately. The interface should make it as easy as possible to manage these.



My main objective with this mod was addressing this clunkyness. It should not seen as a balance change, these are interface changes than in my opinion, should have happened long ago.



I have also added a couple of secondary experimental changes to the mod for fun that modify Swarm Hosts and Ghosts, but I don't want it to be the main focus.



DISRUPTOR RANGE INDICATOR FIX



In my opinion, this is the big one.



Unlike some units like Swarm Hosts - which always show their maximum range - Disruptors don't unless you have a single one selected and you are actively targeting the Nova. Otherwise you get no range indicator.



This is pretty bad considering how complicated the unit already is, the lack of smart casting and the nature of the projectile.



Players in lower leagues will often miscalculate the range and launch Novas from way too far for them to do anything. This doesn't matter as much as high or pro level, but it is a huge deal when you a learning to use the unit.



The fix is simple, make the range visible at all times. You can see it in action here:

Since LOTV got introduced, Adepts and Disruptors have gone through quite a few revisions. But in my opinion, there has always been a constant throughout all these changes: These unit's abilities are somewhat clunky to use. This is a bad thing, considering both of the abilities cause the unit to split in two instances of itself you can control separately. The interface should make it as easy as possible to manage these.My main objective with this mod was addressing this clunkyness. It should not seen as a balance change, these are interface changes than in my opinion, should have happened long ago.I have also added a couple of secondary experimental changes to the mod for fun that modify Swarm Hosts and Ghosts, but I don't want it to be the main focus.In my opinion, this is the big one.Unlike some units like Swarm Hosts - which always show their maximum range - Disruptors don't unless you have a single one selected and you are actively targeting the Nova. Otherwise you get no range indicator.This is pretty bad considering how complicated the unit already is, the lack of smart casting and the nature of the projectile.Players in lower leagues will often miscalculate the range and launch Novas from way too far for them to do anything. This doesn't matter as much as high or pro level, but it is a huge deal when you a learning to use the unit.The fix is simple, make the range visible at all times. You can see it in action here:





ADEPT SHADE FIX



When I first used Adepts in LOTV I was kind of confused at why I was losing Adepts when shading away from Zergs. I soon realized that casting the Shade canceled whatever command I had issued previously, so if I was walking North and casted Shade South, I would have my Adept come to a dead stop instead of continuing to walk North.



Soon you realize you have to reissue the command for the Adept, but this is not great, since honestly you probably want to be managing your Shades at this point, and most of the time you would want your Adept doing the same thing it was previously doing instead of just halting.



Anyway, I fixed this too. The only thing that is gone is the Shade Cast animation, but players would always cancel that animation anyway. Here it is:

When I first used Adepts in LOTV I was kind of confused at why I was losing Adepts when shading away from Zergs. I soon realized that casting the Shade canceled whatever command I had issued previously, so if I was walking North and casted Shade South, I would have my Adept come to a dead stop instead of continuing to walk North.Soon you realize you have to reissue the command for the Adept, but this is not great, since honestly you probably want to be managing your Shades at this point, and most of the time you would want your Adept doing the same thing it was previously doing instead of just halting.Anyway, I fixed this too. The only thing that is gone is the Shade Cast animation, but players would always cancel that animation anyway. Here it is:





SWARM HOSTS AS CASTERS



This is a more experimental change (and not a priority like the above). What if Swarm Hosts were casters?



Energy management means you have a little more flexibility, and in this particular instance I allowed them to bank up to two waves. Waves still regenerate at the same pace, but this lets you skip a cycle and then launch two waves in relatively quick succession.



SH have a total of 100 energy, and each wave costs 40 energy. They are highly susceptible to Ghost EMP.



This would create a more flexible Swarm Host, but also one with more powerful counter-play. It might be too good as it stands in the mod, but you could nerf other aspects



This is a more experimental change (and not a priority like the above). What if Swarm Hosts were casters?Energy management means you have a little more flexibility, and in this particular instance I allowed them to bank up to two waves. Waves still regenerate at the same pace, but this lets you skip a cycle and then launch two waves in relatively quick succession.SH have a total of 100 energy, and each wave costs 40 energy. They are highly susceptible to Ghost EMP.This would create a more flexible Swarm Host, but also one with more powerful counter-play. It might be too good as it stands in the mod, but you could nerf other aspects



+5 DAMAGE TO GHOST SNIPE



Queens have 175 HP, Ghost Snipe does 170 damage.



This irks me for some reason. I think it would be cool if Ghosts were good at killing Queens too (right now leaving one at 5 HP just means it will instantly get transfused).



This isn't serious or important, but I think Ghost are a fun unit and creating chances for them to shine will make them see the light a bit more.



Queens have 175 HP, Ghost Snipe does 170 damage.This irks me for some reason. I think it would be cool if Ghosts were good at killing Queens too (right now leaving one at 5 HP just means it will instantly get transfused).This isn't serious or important, but I think Ghost are a fun unit and creating chances for them to shine will make them see the light a bit more.



THE MOD



The mod is named:



Perezas MINDBLOWING Adept Shade fix and new Disruptor Range



It is open for custom games and editing in case you want to check it out.



And it is currently available in Europe and America (will upload to Asia soon).



Cheers. If you have any small usability ideas (keyword:small, the smaller the higher the chance Blizzard might add them) or fun experimental changes, tell me and I might incorporate them The mod is named:Perezas MINDBLOWING Adept Shade fix and new Disruptor RangeIt is open for custom games and editing in case you want to check it out.And it is currently available in Europe and America (will upload to Asia soon).Cheers. If you have any small usability ideas (keyword:small, the smaller the higher the chance Blizzard might add them) or fun experimental changes, tell me and I might incorporate them

getg00d Profile Joined April 2017 United States 120 Posts #2 amazing https://www.twitch.tv/getg00d

Musicus Profile Joined August 2011 Germany 23387 Posts #3 Nice post and cool suggestions.



I think the disruptor change makes sense, but Adept harass is already harder to defend than to execute, so any extra click the protoss has to make is welcome imo.



Ghosts sniping queens with 1 shot has the potential to break TvZ I think. Maru and Serral are probably top 5.

Cyro Profile Blog Joined June 2011 United Kingdom 19832 Posts #4 Nice work on the disruptor/adept stuff "oh my god my overclock... I got a single WHEA error on the 23rd hour, 9 minutes" -Belial88

iLose4u Profile Joined June 2011 Sweden 24 Posts #5 On January 11 2018 19:52 Musicus wrote:

Nice post and cool suggestions.



I think the disruptor change makes sense, but Adept harass is already harder to defend than to execute, so any extra click the protoss has to make is welcome imo.



Ghosts sniping queens with 1 shot has the potential to break TvZ I think.



Surely this must be a joke! Most terran players don't play ghost anyway vs zerg. Indeed, many terrans have started to mech against zerg. I cannot see how this would break TVZ at all. Surely this must be a joke! Most terran players don't play ghost anyway vs zerg. Indeed, many terrans have started to mech against zerg. I cannot see how this would break TVZ at all. Not attacking your opponent is generally not a viable strategy.

Fango Profile Joined July 2016 United Kingdom 7762 Posts #6 On January 11 2018 19:52 Musicus wrote:Ghosts sniping queens with 1 shot has the potential to break TvZ I think.



It would? Terrans don't invest into ghosts except in the super lategame anyway It would? Terrans don't invest into ghosts except in the super lategame anyway Zest, sOs, PartinG, Dark, and Maru are the real champs. ROOT_herO is overrated. Snute, Serral, and Scarlett are the foreigner GOATs

hiroshOne Profile Joined October 2015 Poland 410 Posts #7 It's not hard to imagine some cheese with ghost indicated in early game that is autowin for T with that buff. Ultima Ratio Regum

pereza0 Profile Joined October 2016 17 Posts Last Edited: 2018-01-11 13:58:34 #8 On January 11 2018 22:50 hiroshOne wrote:

It's not hard to imagine some cheese with ghost indicated in early game that is autowin for T with that buff.



Could certainly create chances for cheese, but so much as an autowin?



Ghost are still a large investment for the early game that suck against Zerglings, and Snipe can still be canceled with damage. Ghost Academy is a total giveaway too, even if you hide it the Zerg will likely notice something is up.



And still, you are making a 150/125 unit to deal with a 150 unit Could certainly create chances for cheese, but so much as an autowin?Ghost are still a large investment for the early game that suck against Zerglings, and Snipe can still be canceled with damage. Ghost Academy is a total giveaway too, even if you hide it the Zerg will likely notice something is up.And still, you are making a 150/125 unit to deal with a 150 unit

Musicus Profile Joined August 2011 Germany 23387 Posts Last Edited: 2018-01-11 14:00:42 #9 On January 11 2018 22:50 Fango wrote:

Show nested quote +

On January 11 2018 19:52 Musicus wrote:Ghosts sniping queens with 1 shot has the potential to break TvZ I think.



It would? Terrans don't invest into ghosts except in the super lategame anyway It would? Terrans don't invest into ghosts except in the super lategame anyway

I mean I don't know and we won't know until it's tested, but it's just something I think could happen.



Ghosts are just super sick in the late game and can kill everything, and needing one snipe or two snipes for a unit makes a big difference I think.



Not sure if strategies with early ghosts to snipe creep queens or inject queens would actually happen. But the thought of a broken ghost late game (again) scares me. I could see some Terran buffs to marauders and ravens and stuff, but I definitely think snipe is good enough.



But OP didn't want the focus to be on the Ghost change anyway . I mean I don't know and we won't know until it's tested, but it's just something I think could happen.Ghosts are just super sick in the late game and can kill everything, and needing one snipe or two snipes for a unit makes a big difference I think.Not sure if strategies with early ghosts to snipe creep queens or inject queens would actually happen. But the thought of a broken ghost late game (again) scares me. I could see some Terran buffs to marauders and ravens and stuff, but I definitely think snipe is good enough.But OP didn't want the focus to be on the Ghost change anyway Maru and Serral are probably top 5.

pereza0 Profile Joined October 2016 17 Posts Last Edited: 2018-01-11 14:02:28 #10 On January 11 2018 22:57 Musicus wrote:

Show nested quote +

On January 11 2018 22:50 Fango wrote:

On January 11 2018 19:52 Musicus wrote:Ghosts sniping queens with 1 shot has the potential to break TvZ I think.



It would? Terrans don't invest into ghosts except in the super lategame anyway It would? Terrans don't invest into ghosts except in the super lategame anyway

I mean I don't know and we won't know until it's tested, but it's just something I think could happen.



Ghosts are just super sick in the late game and can kill everything, and needing one snipe or two snipes for a unit makes a big difference I think.



Not sure if strategies with early ghosts to snipe creep queens or inject queens would actually happen. But the thought of a broken ghost late game (again) scares me. I could see some Terran buffs to marauders and ravens and stuff, but I definitely think snipe is good enough. I mean I don't know and we won't know until it's tested, but it's just something I think could happen.Ghosts are just super sick in the late game and can kill everything, and needing one snipe or two snipes for a unit makes a big difference I think.Not sure if strategies with early ghosts to snipe creep queens or inject queens would actually happen. But the thought of a broken ghost late game (again) scares me. I could see some Terran buffs to marauders and ravens and stuff, but I definitely think snipe is good enough.



I think it wouldn't be as impactful in the lategame, mostly because there are juicier targets like Broods or Ultras you would rather spend that energy on.



This could create some uses in the mid-game. And I mean, you still can use Ghosts that way in the current build in the game, against lone Queens 5 HP only needs a single followup shot for a kill



I think it wouldn't be as impactful in the lategame, mostly because there are juicier targets like Broods or Ultras you would rather spend that energy on.This could create some uses in the mid-game. And I mean, you still can use Ghosts that way in the current build in the game, against lone Queens 5 HP only needs a single followup shot for a kill [B]

But OP didn't want the focus to be on the Ghost change anyway .



I am already regretting bringing it up in the first place hahaha I am already regretting bringing it up in the first place hahaha

Musicus Profile Joined August 2011 Germany 23387 Posts Last Edited: 2018-01-11 14:05:24 #11 On January 11 2018 22:56 pereza0 wrote:

Show nested quote +

On January 11 2018 22:50 hiroshOne wrote:

It's not hard to imagine some cheese with ghost indicated in early game that is autowin for T with that buff.



Could certainly create chances for cheese, but so much as an autowin?



Ghost are still a large investment for the early game that suck against Zerglings, and Snipe can still be canceled with damage. Ghost Academy is a total giveaway too, even if you hide it the Zerg will likely notice something is up.



And still, you are making a 150/125 unit to deal with a 150 unit Could certainly create chances for cheese, but so much as an autowin?Ghost are still a large investment for the early game that suck against Zerglings, and Snipe can still be canceled with damage. Ghost Academy is a total giveaway too, even if you hide it the Zerg will likely notice something is up.And still, you are making a 150/125 unit to deal with a 150 unit

It's not just a 150 unit though, it's production and creep. It's a barracks and your map presence getting one shotted.



I am already regretting bringing it up in the first place hahaha



Yeah sorry I will let it rest. It's not just a 150 unit though, it's production and creep. It's a barracks and your map presence getting one shotted.Yeah sorry I will let it rest. Maru and Serral are probably top 5.

pereza0 Profile Joined October 2016 17 Posts Last Edited: 2018-01-11 14:24:35 #12 On January 11 2018 23:02 Musicus wrote:



It's not just a 150 unit though, it's production and creep. It's a barracks and your map presence getting one shotted.



True.



Either way lets focus on the QoL stuff, which actually might have a chance of getting through to Blizzard (I dont have much hope for the Ghost change, whether good or bad)





True.Either way lets focus on the QoL stuff, which actually might have a chance of getting through to Blizzard (I dont have much hope for the Ghost change, whether good or bad) Yeah sorry I will let it rest.



No, its definitely my fault.



I knew I wouldn't be able to resist discussing it and yet I posted it in the original post No, its definitely my fault.I knew I wouldn't be able to resist discussing it and yet I posted it in the original post

Aunvilgodess Profile Joined May 2016 952 Posts #13 Quality post. Title is misleading, I thought it would be balance whine. That said, I don't think its a problem if Adepts require a bit more micro. IMO its no problem, just git gud.

egrimm Profile Joined September 2011 Poland 1122 Posts #14

Ghost change I don't feel like would make noticeable difference.

energy-based SH will get feedback too easily I think - it would be quite a nerf, however I never was a fan of SH so I'm ok with nerfing them

All in all quality post gj I like both disruptor and adept change - will make managing these units a bit less frustratingGhost change I don't feel like would make noticeable difference.energy-based SH will get feedback too easily I think - it would be quite a nerf, however I never was a fan of SH so I'm ok with nerfing themAll in all quality post gj sOs TY PartinG

xongnox Profile Joined November 2011 537 Posts #15 While we talk about fixes, Tanks aufocusing Planetary Forteresses, even when attacking enemy units are way closer than the PF (like marines ), always seemed to me like a bug or stupid design. (btw it did the same thing vs photonpylons, lol ).

Cyro Profile Blog Joined June 2011 United Kingdom 19832 Posts Last Edited: 2018-01-11 17:45:45 #16 On January 11 2018 23:50 Aunvilgodess wrote:

Quality post. Title is misleading, I thought it would be balance whine. That said, I don't think its a problem if Adepts require a bit more micro. IMO its no problem, just git gud.



Why should we add further actions when we already have enough to perfectly communicate some gameplay from the brain of the player to the game?



I can't think of a good reason that wouldn't also lead to further game design changes, more than just singling out the adept. Why should we add further actions when we already have enough to perfectly communicate some gameplay from the brain of the player to the game?I can't think of a good reason that wouldn't also lead to further game design changes, more than just singling out the adept. "oh my god my overclock... I got a single WHEA error on the 23rd hour, 9 minutes" -Belial88

RedJohnSC2 Profile Joined April 2015 9 Posts #17 A idea for Disruptor

Two different types of Novas. The first is as it is right now.

The second one shoots instant(no charging up), but detonates much faster (max 6 or 7 range from the disruptor) does just 30 splash damage when hits and the cooldown is just 5 seconds. When using one type of nova, both are in cooldown.





I would love to see this in action. Must have potential to bring Disruptor to a solid level of unit.

JimmyJRaynor Profile Blog Joined April 2010 Canada 14068 Posts Last Edited: 2018-01-11 17:58:02 #18

good post. great work. On January 11 2018 19:52 Musicus wrote:

Ghosts sniping queens with 1 shot has the potential to break TvZ I think.

it could break TvZ but i think its at least worthy of exploration.



it could break TvZ but i think its at least worthy of exploration. On January 11 2018 19:52 Musicus wrote:

I think the disruptor change makes sense, but Adept harass is already harder to defend than to execute, so any extra click the protoss has to make is welcome imo.



i have no problem removing the "clunky" nature of Adept control... but if that means Adept micro gets way better then they'll also need to nerf the adept. i have no problem removing the "clunky" nature of Adept control... but if that means Adept micro gets way better then they'll also need to nerf the adept. Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"

Valon Profile Joined June 2011 United States 329 Posts #19 The swarm host change is amazing! I've suggested making them energy based before. This would allow counters without making them stupid ie make them slow as mud and make them have ridiculously long cooldowns. Costs and High templar could counter them

ejozl Profile Joined October 2010 Denmark 2906 Posts Last Edited: 2018-01-11 20:24:47 #20 Definitely like the Disruptor and Adept changes, even though Disruptor will never be used as long as it has this shitty charge up time.



As for Snipe I have been doing exactly that rush that you suggest to make stronger and can tell you it's insanely powerful. Got M2 by doing only Ghost Rush every game as my off race on Terran. I make Hellions and they can easily get 1 shot off on the Queen and also provide vision for the Snipe to easily go off. The Ghost is one of the strongest units in the game right now.



Swarm Hosts I think need a bigger redesign and it could and could not involve using Energy for it's spells. I think in general it makes sense for Spell Casters with only 1 ability to use cooldown instead of Energy. SC2 Archon needs "Terrible, terrible damage" as one of it's quotes.

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