In the discussion, Ms. Jarrett and Ms. Yates expressed a deep sense of alarm about the state of American politics — not just about Mr. Trump’s norm-breaking presidency, but also about the slew of highly restrictive state abortion laws passed since Mr. Trump cemented a conservative majority on the Supreme Court less than a year ago.

Alabama’s law, a near-complete ban on abortion, has gotten the most national attention, but Ms. Jarrett and Ms. Yates said they did not view it as the most dangerous — it is so extreme, Ms. Yates said, that even conservative judges might reject it. Ms. Jarrett said she was more alarmed by the fact that numerous states had passed restrictions of various degrees, searching for “that perfect test case” to force the Supreme Court to reconsider Roe v. Wade.

The environment, Ms. Yates said, “almost feels ‘Handmaid’s Tale’-like.”

She and Ms. Jarrett also expressed concern about the long-term effects of Mr. Trump’s shattering of presidential norms.

“It’s the damage and ripping apart of the fabric of institutions and norms that is hard to figure out — how we put all that back together again — and it’s become so normalized that we’ve lost our ability to be shocked by these things,” said Ms. Yates, who was fired by Mr. Trump 10 days into his presidency after she refused to defend the administration’s ban on immigrants from seven predominantly Muslim countries. “Indifference to truth, I think, is going to live with us a lot longer than any of the policies.”