Liam Brown 18 Jan 2012

I suffer with eczema on my hands for which I use steroid cream. However I can only use a certain amount before the skin on my hands thins. Thin skin means I have a tendency to get flappers - lots of them if I am bouldering, particularly inside. I use tape to protect my fingers but I can't just wrap up my whole hand and this hardly helps my eczema. I was wondering what experience people have of this problem and how they have handled it.

escalator 18 Jan 2012





I haven't got any experience, or anything that I can offer as advice. However, I do feel for you, as it does not sound pleasant.



Hope others can offer help though.



ES In reply to Liam Brown:I haven't got any experience, or anything that I can offer as advice. However, I do feel for you, as it does not sound pleasant.Hope others can offer help though.ES

KiwiPrincess 19 Jan 2012





My husband found that chalk with additives made his hands alot worse.



Try using less tape and chalk to see if they are irritating the Excema. less excema, less steroid creme.



Good luck In reply to Liam Brown:My husband found that chalk with additives made his hands alot worse.Try using less tape and chalk to see if they are irritating the Excema. less excema, less steroid creme.Good luck

John Dunne 19 Jan 2012





I have suffered from mild eczema on my hands since starting climbing over 30 years ago.The major problem with most steroid creams is they thin the skin over time so this will only make the skin weaker and more prone to splitting and becoming sore.There is a cream called Elocon which is a modern alternative that does not thin the skin you may already know this.

A few simple steps are NEVER EVER use chalk with resin in the various super chalks they are really bad and a simple irritant to delicate skin.Use simple block chalk and as soon as you have finished climbing wash or use wipes to remove the chalk.

Once clean add cream that is recommended by a dermatologist NOT the various climbing hand creams as they can also irritate skin that is prone to eczema.

Hope this helps In reply to Liam Brown:I have suffered from mild eczema on my hands since starting climbing over 30 years ago.The major problem with most steroid creams is they thin the skin over time so this will only make the skin weaker and more prone to splitting and becoming sore.There is a cream called Elocon which is a modern alternative that does not thin the skin you may already know this.A few simple steps are NEVER EVER use chalk with resin in the various super chalks they are really bad and a simple irritant to delicate skin.Use simple block chalk and as soon as you have finished climbing wash or use wipes to remove the chalk.Once clean add cream that is recommended by a dermatologist NOT the various climbing hand creams as they can also irritate skin that is prone to eczema.Hope this helps

Didymus 19 Jan 2012





You could try alternative approaches to eczema: eg nutrition/homeopathy/acupuncture and wean off the steroid cream as soon as possible. In reply to Liam Brown:You could try alternative approaches to eczema: eg nutrition/homeopathy/acupuncture and wean off the steroid cream as soon as possible.

CurlyStevo 19 Jan 2012



do you believe homeopathy works? In reply to Jon Didymus:do you believe homeopathy works?

kirsten 19 Jan 2012

In reply to CurlyStevo: Climb On skin repair, no eczema, no skin splitting etc since I started with it

Hawkscry 19 Jan 2012



By definition alternative medicine has either not been proved to work or proved not to work. You know what they call alternative medicine that has been proved to work?

Medicine. In reply to Jon Didymus:By definition alternative medicine has either not been proved to work or proved not to work. You know what they call alternative medicine that has been proved to work?Medicine.

Andy DB UKC Supporter 19 Jan 2012

In reply to Liam Brown: As another eczema sufferer I have a prescribed steriod cream that contains an anti septic. This seems to stop all those little cuts getting infected. I would echo what others have said about chalk I try to use the real minimum I can and wash my hand straight after. I also find I need lot of moisturiser. I have had most success with unsented ordinary moisturisers. Boots own brand has worked Ok as well as the Norwegian formula stuff. If you have really sensitive skin I have some Avino stuff that seems to be super non allergenic.

IainAM 19 Jan 2012





Hi Liam, J Dunne's advice is good, follow it. It's important to keep the skin supple and washing chalk off quickly and using dermatological hand cream helps loads.



What hasn't been mentioned is that for some eczema can be a symptom of an allergic reaction. For me there are four things that are triggers which are caffeine, dairy, down duvets (sob), and some biological washing powders (and their fillers which are used to bulk it up so it looks like you're getting more for your money.) Apparently if you have allergies, these are quite common ones. Stress doesn't help either.



It's well worth investigating, because if it is a cause you can almost eliminate the problem. Before I discovered the triggers I had patches so bad I had to bandage every day. I still get it badly occasionally but it's usually self inflicted because of caffeine/dairy, (I don't want to give it up,) and stress. In reply to Liam Brown:Hi Liam, J Dunne's advice is good, follow it. It's important to keep the skin supple and washing chalk off quickly and using dermatological hand cream helps loads.What hasn't been mentioned is that for some eczema can be a symptom of an allergic reaction. For me there are four things that are triggers which are caffeine, dairy, down duvets (sob), and some biological washing powders (and their fillers which are used to bulk it up so it looks like you're getting more for your money.) Apparently if you have allergies, these are quite common ones. Stress doesn't help either.It's well worth investigating, because if it is a cause you can almost eliminate the problem. Before I discovered the triggers I had patches so bad I had to bandage every day. I still get it badly occasionally but it's usually self inflicted because of caffeine/dairy, (I don't want to give it up,) and stress.

thermal_t 19 Jan 2012

I used to suffer with eczema with a child but it went away in my teens, when I took up climbing it came back with a vengence. I've now pretty much put it down to using Super Chalk, I now only use block chalk and make sure I wash it off straight away after climbing, the problem seems to have gone away for now.



I had pretty bad eczema on my hands before and as I started climbing, it seemed to me that the act of making your hands sweat more than usual helped.



However, I am now starting to get it a bit in the ring finger on both hands, but a quick rub of climb on seems to almost completely sort it out, if i could actually remember where I put my climb on, and applied it more than once, I am certain my eczema would clear up fully.



DC In reply to Liam Brown: A slight curveball in opinion and experience from me here.I had pretty bad eczema on my hands before and as I started climbing, it seemed to me that the act of making your hands sweat more than usual helped.However, I am now starting to get it a bit in the ring finger on both hands, but a quick rub of climb on seems to almost completely sort it out, if i could actually remember where I put my climb on, and applied it more than once, I am certain my eczema would clear up fully.DC

tony07 19 Jan 2012

In reply to Liam Brown: another thing that i find flares my excema up is drinks with no added sugar. Think its the aspartame and saccharin that does it. Also as mentioned some washing powders dont help and liquid soap is a killer!

Jenny C 19 Jan 2012



> (In reply to Liam Brown)

>

> A few simple steps are NEVER EVER use chalk with resin in the various super chalks they are really bad and a simple irritant to delicate skin.Use simple block chalk and as soon as you have finished climbing wash or use wipes to remove the chalk.



Good advice, not just for ecxema sufferes but for anyone with sensitive/damaged skin - Super Chalk is nasty stuff.



> Once clean add cream that is recommended by a dermatologist NOT the various climbing hand creams as they can also irritate skin that is prone to eczema.



Actually I find ClimbOn (both the creme and the bar) one of the few moistturisers which actually sooths the itching of my ecxema. Clearly it won't not work for everyone and yes some routine moiturisers (like E45 creme) actually make my itching worse! In reply to J Dunne:Good advice, not just for ecxema sufferes but for anyone with sensitive/damaged skin - Super Chalk is nasty stuff.Actually I find ClimbOn (both the creme and the bar) one of the few moistturisers which actually sooths the itching of my ecxema. Clearly it won't not work for everyone and yes some routine moiturisers (like E45 creme) actually make my itching worse!





About 20 years ago I suffered from eczema on my hands, and particularly between my fingers....for about two years I used every type of steroid cream, and had specialist consultations at my local hospital....nothing worked....in desperation I went to a Homeopath friend who, after careful consideration, sent me the 'remedy', one tiny pill....six weeks later my eczema had disappeared completely, never to return... In reply to Liam Brown:About 20 years ago I suffered from eczema on my hands, and particularly between my fingers....for about two years I used every type of steroid cream, and had specialist consultations at my local hospital....nothing worked....in desperation I went to a Homeopath friend who, after careful consideration, sent me the 'remedy', one tiny pill....six weeks later my eczema had disappeared completely, never to return...

RockAngel 19 Jan 2012



Other triggers for him is dairy and chocolate (two of his favourite things) so he has to have it limited.

Find your triggers, food and washing powders are the most likely suspects and try to eliminate them as much as possible, hence reducing your need for the cream. In reply to Liam Brown: SLS, an ingredient often found in creams and lotions prescribed by doctors to treat excema, can often exacerbate it further. Sodium Laurate sulfate is the stuff. Its also found in shampoos, showergels and soaps, washing up liguid and probably in washing gels, liguids and powders. My son is allergic to this ingredient in some shower gels (he got a load of Lynx stuff for Xmas and its aggravated his excema). Think its a combination of the SLS and the extra scents in the showergels.Other triggers for him is dairy and chocolate (two of his favourite things) so he has to have it limited.Find your triggers, food and washing powders are the most likely suspects and try to eliminate them as much as possible, hence reducing your need for the cream.

RockAngel 19 Jan 2012

IainAM 19 Jan 2012



> (In reply to Liam Brown)

>

> one tiny pill....six weeks later my eczema had disappeared completely, never to return...



I'm glad it worked for you, the placebo effect is amazing isn't it In reply to HappyTrundler:I'm glad it worked for you, the placebo effect is amazing isn't it

i.munro 19 Jan 2012





> Good advice, not just for ecxema sufferes but for anyone with sensitive/damaged skin - Super Chalk is nasty stuff.

>



I'd concur with this. Also, I used to use a wall where this was the only chalk that they sold on site & as a result most of their customers used it & the holds were all covered in it.

If this is the case where you climb I'd suggest getting them to change their product range or finding yourself a different wall. In reply to Jenny C:I'd concur with this. Also, I used to use a wall where this was the only chalk that they sold on site & as a result most of their customers used it & the holds were all covered in it.If this is the case where you climb I'd suggest getting them to change their product range or finding yourself a different wall.

Didymus 19 Jan 2012





I'm a homeopath with 15 years clinical experience and I have found it to work well in many cases including my own. It doesn't seem to work in about 25% of cases but if your conventional treatment is not helping then it is always worth keeping an open mind and considering alternatives. In reply to CurlyStevo:I'm a homeopath with 15 years clinical experience and I have found it to work well in many cases including my own. It doesn't seem to work in about 25% of cases but if your conventional treatment is not helping then it is always worth keeping an open mind and considering alternatives.

Didymus 19 Jan 2012





As a professional homeopath, I have treated more than 100 cases of eczema and this kind of miracle cure can happen but, in my experience, most cases take longer to get better and some never get better at all. It all depends on the individual - general level of health, other ailments, current meds, previous and family medical history, lifestyle etc. I also think good nutrition is an important factor. In reply to HappyTrundler:As a professional homeopath, I have treated more than 100 cases of eczema and this kind of miracle cure can happen but, in my experience, most cases take longer to get better and some never get better at all. It all depends on the individual - general level of health, other ailments, current meds, previous and family medical history, lifestyle etc. I also think good nutrition is an important factor.

Didymus 19 Jan 2012





Sorry but I don't understand what you are trying to say? In reply to Hawkscry:Sorry but I don't understand what you are trying to say?

ryan_d 19 Jan 2012





i also use a steroid based ointment to treat my condition but I have also started using moisturiser and soap from a company called Skin Salveation. You can find them on the net. This has been really effective in managing my condition and is also recommended for excema. The NHS are now apparently prescribing it, but you can purchase it from the net. Its not cheap, but also not that expensive either. Quick delivery too. I use it daily after a shower and on my hands after thoroughly cleaning them following a climbing session and my condition is much more well managed.



Hope this helps



Ryan In reply to Liam Brown: As a psoriasis sufferer of many years, I can empathise. I too get this on my hands and can concur with some of the advice around the use and types of chalk.i also use a steroid based ointment to treat my condition but I have also started using moisturiser and soap from a company called Skin Salveation. You can find them on the net. This has been really effective in managing my condition and is also recommended for excema. The NHS are now apparently prescribing it, but you can purchase it from the net. Its not cheap, but also not that expensive either. Quick delivery too. I use it daily after a shower and on my hands after thoroughly cleaning them following a climbing session and my condition is much more well managed.Hope this helpsRyan

Monk 19 Jan 2012





I think that he is trying to say that every time homeopathic remedies are investigated in proper controlled trials, they don't work. In reply to Jon Didymus:I think that he is trying to say that every time homeopathic remedies are investigated in proper controlled trials, they don't work.

Sir Chasm 19 Jan 2012

In reply to Monk: Almost certainly he wasn't saying that homeopaths are snake-oil peddling crooks. Probably.

i.munro 19 Jan 2012





Before this becomes the usual pointless UKC slanging match.

Does anyone know what the 'drying agent' is in super-chalk? In reply to Liam Brown:Before this becomes the usual pointless UKC slanging match.Does anyone know what the 'drying agent' is in super-chalk?

Dan Walker 19 Jan 2012



I don't suffer from eczema myself, but have seen to lots of patients who do.

Emollients are pretty much the mainstay of eczema management & they need to be applied ***thickly and often*** - this is really important (lot of people don't apply them frequently enough).

Your steroid cream should reduce the inflammation; if it's not you could need something stronger (in the short term – which can be reduced again later). Sometimes broken skin can become infected - causing a flare-up (in which case antibiotics should help).

If things aren’t getting any better it’s worth going back to your GP.

As other people have said already: it's probably best to avoid chalk with drying agents, wash your hands after climbing (then apply more emollients).

If your eczema is particularly itchy, antihistamines may help.

(I wouldn't recommend homeopathy - there's no evidence of any effect beyond placebo, but it’s unlikely to do any harm…)

There's lots more info here:



Hope that helps



Dan In reply to Liam Brown:I don't suffer from eczema myself, but have seen to lots of patients who do.Emollients are pretty much the mainstay of eczema management & they need to be applied ***thickly and often*** - this is really important (lot of people don't apply them frequently enough).Your steroid cream should reduce the inflammation; if it's not you could need something stronger (in the short term – which can be reduced again later). Sometimes broken skin can become infected - causing a flare-up (in which case antibiotics should help).If things aren’t getting any better it’s worth going back to your GP.As other people have said already: it's probably best to avoid chalk with drying agents, wash your hands after climbing (then apply more emollients).If your eczema is particularly itchy, antihistamines may help.(I wouldn't recommend homeopathy - there's no evidence of any effect beyond placebo, but it’s unlikely to do any harm…)There's lots more info here: http://www.patient.co.uk/search.asp?searchterm=eczema Hope that helpsDan

Hooo 19 Jan 2012



I have had bouts of eczema since I was a child, and my hands are currently suffering so I'm keen to try anything. I've given up on steroids as they can't be used long term so it just comes back. I'm just careful about washing and moisturising, and try to avoid the triggers.

I try to use only Eucerin bath and shower for all washing. It's the best thing I've found by far, but expensive.

For moisturising, plain Vaseline or a cream called Exomega by A-Derma are the only things I've found that don't aggravate it.

Triggers vary, but mine seem to be stress, most washing powders and dairy. Possibly coffee but I refuse to give it up for long enough to find out.



My current attempt to protect my hands while climbing is Elastoplast spray plaster! Just spray it on and it leaves a clear film to cover all the little cracks. It doesn't last a whole session, but it's a lot better than nothing. It really seems to help using it every day, it doesn't cure the eczema but it protects my skin and stops it getting worse.

In reply to Liam Brown:I have had bouts of eczema since I was a child, and my hands are currently suffering so I'm keen to try anything. I've given up on steroids as they can't be used long term so it just comes back. I'm just careful about washing and moisturising, and try to avoid the triggers.I try to use only Eucerin bath and shower for all washing. It's the best thing I've found by far, but expensive.For moisturising, plain Vaseline or a cream called Exomega by A-Derma are the only things I've found that don't aggravate it.Triggers vary, but mine seem to be stress, most washing powders and dairy. Possibly coffee but I refuse to give it up for long enough to find out.My current attempt to protect my hands while climbing is Elastoplast spray plaster! Just spray it on and it leaves a clear film to cover all the little cracks. It doesn't last a whole session, but it's a lot better than nothing. It really seems to help using it every day, it doesn't cure the eczema but it protects my skin and stops it getting worse.

SonyaD 19 Jan 2012

In reply to Liam Brown: Another vote for Aveeno moisturiser and another 'boo' for liquid soaps.

Ice Warrior Sam 19 Jan 2012





Liam,



I've been a sufferer of eczema from birth and up until 8 years ago never had an un-raw layer of skin on the tips of my fingers and constant irritation on my hands in general. As a kid they were so bad sometimes I had to have them bandaged. This has an impact on your hobby choices and water sports certainly were never an option.



7 years ago I had to go to casualty with a chronic allergic reaction in my eyes (I was in a mess and it had gone onto my torso too). I always has lurking mild asthma, constant cough and runny nose. From that point on I decided to sort myself out.



I did a lot of research and for 3 months cut out dairy, wheat, processed sugar and citrus fruit (all antagonistic/inflamatory foods). Having never been able to keep a good layer of skin on my hands miraculously my hands completely cleared of eczema, the cough went. Goats milk rocks - what is so sad is that my parents knew about goats milk in the 70's but chose not to put me on it - I could have been spared a lot of humiliation at school.



It absolutely worked for me and now I know my triggers it's down to me if I consume them or not. When I do fall off the wheat and dairy wagon the cough and itching comes back within 12 hours.



I still use Betnovate sparingly if I have a little flare. Recently my Dr prescribed me a fantastic moisturising cream called Epidurm - it comes in a 500ml bucket and is worth it's weight in gold. You can also mix in a small blob of steroid cream with it when applying.



But please, please, please try cutting out the dariy and wheat (it's not easy but worth it) - I'm living proof and I can truly say it has made a massive difference in my life.



Sam In reply to Liam Brown:Liam,I've been a sufferer of eczema from birth and up until 8 years ago never had an un-raw layer of skin on the tips of my fingers and constant irritation on my hands in general. As a kid they were so bad sometimes I had to have them bandaged. This has an impact on your hobby choices and water sports certainly were never an option.7 years ago I had to go to casualty with a chronic allergic reaction in my eyes (I was in a mess and it had gone onto my torso too). I always has lurking mild asthma, constant cough and runny nose. From that point on I decided to sort myself out.I did a lot of research and for 3 months cut out dairy, wheat, processed sugar and citrus fruit (all antagonistic/inflamatory foods). Having never been able to keep a good layer of skin on my hands miraculously my hands completely cleared of eczema, the cough went. Goats milk rocks - what is so sad is that my parents knew about goats milk in the 70's but chose not to put me on it - I could have been spared a lot of humiliation at school.It absolutely worked for me and now I know my triggers it's down to me if I consume them or not. When I do fall off the wheat and dairy wagon the cough and itching comes back within 12 hours.I still use Betnovate sparingly if I have a little flare. Recently my Dr prescribed me a fantastic moisturising cream called Epidurm - it comes in a 500ml bucket and is worth it's weight in gold. You can also mix in a small blob of steroid cream with it when applying.But please, please, please try cutting out the dariy and wheat (it's not easy but worth it) - I'm living proof and I can truly say it has made a massive difference in my life.Sam

MHutch 19 Jan 2012



> (In reply to Liam Brown)

>

> I have suffered from mild eczema on my hands since starting climbing over 30 years ago.The major problem with most steroid creams is they thin the skin over time so this will only make the skin weaker and more prone to splitting and becoming sore.There is a cream called Elocon which is a modern alternative that does not thin the skin you may already know this.

> A few simple steps are NEVER EVER use chalk with resin in the various super chalks they are really bad and a simple irritant to delicate skin.Use simple block chalk and as soon as you have finished climbing wash or use wipes to remove the chalk.

> Once clean add cream that is recommended by a dermatologist NOT the various climbing hand creams as they can also irritate skin that is prone to eczema.



This advice nails it, in my opinion. I suspect Liam may have been over-reliant on topical steroids, which have slightly thinned his skin, making it more prone to damage.



I use a proper emollient called diprobase, fairly cheap over the counter at pharmacies. It has virtually removed my need for steroid cream. Use it as a soap replacement when washing hands.



After climbing, again, use it as soap to get all the chalk off, then apply a thin layer as a moisturiser.



DO NOT USE AQUEOUS CREAM! It's cheap for a reason.



In reply to J Dunne:This advice nails it, in my opinion. I suspect Liam may have been over-reliant on topical steroids, which have slightly thinned his skin, making it more prone to damage.I use a proper emollient called diprobase, fairly cheap over the counter at pharmacies. It has virtually removed my need for steroid cream. Use it as a soap replacement when washing hands.After climbing, again, use it as soap to get all the chalk off, then apply a thin layer as a moisturiser.DO NOT USE AQUEOUS CREAM! It's cheap for a reason.

Fiona Reid 19 Jan 2012





> Recently my Dr prescribed me a fantastic moisturising cream called Epidurm - it comes in a 500ml > bucket and is worth it's weight in gold.



I think the cream is Epaderm?



I use it when my paws get really sore. It's brilliant stuff but super greasy so I tend to apply it at night with cotton gloves/socks over my hands whilst I sleep so I don't leave snail trails! In reply to La Shamster:I think the cream is Epaderm?I use it when my paws get really sore. It's brilliant stuff but super greasy so I tend to apply it at night with cotton gloves/socks over my hands whilst I sleep so I don't leave snail trails!

Ice Warrior Sam 19 Jan 2012





That's the badger! Pardon my spelling.



Unfortunately having used so much Betnovate as a kid because no-one really knew any better I do now have hands that look slightly weathered than they should for my youthful years ;-) In reply to Fiona Reid:That's the badger! Pardon my spelling.Unfortunately having used so much Betnovate as a kid because no-one really knew any better I do now have hands that look slightly weathered than they should for my youthful years ;-)

lewisor05 19 Jan 2012





As people have said lots of emollient cream, i use a big dispenser of cetraben emollient cream and you can just pile it on.

I also use oilatum shower gel and shampoo which is costly but is much kinder to my skin then anything else i have tried. In reply to Liam Brown: I have found that the hardness of the water plays a big part in the condition of my eczema. At my home its very hard water and my eczema flares up and where i go to university it is soft water and it always seems to significantly improve the condition of my skin. Probably to do with how well the soap is washed from the skin.As people have said lots of emollient cream, i use a big dispenser of cetraben emollient cream and you can just pile it on.I also use oilatum shower gel and shampoo which is costly but is much kinder to my skin then anything else i have tried.

John Ww 19 Jan 2012





As a lifetime sufferer, something I've found lately which is really effective is a moisturiser called "Aqua non-hermal". My gf is a doctor in Germany, and she recommended it to me a while ago after being concerned about the amount of Eumovate I was getting through. I can honestly say it's made a huge difference. The only problem is that it seems to be "prescription only" if you Google it - needless to say, it isn't in Germany, so I'm fortunate in having a reliable source. Maybe it would be worth mentioning it to your GP and giving it a try.



Good luck, JW In reply to Liam Brown:As a lifetime sufferer, something I've found lately which is really effective is a moisturiser called "Aqua non-hermal". My gf is a doctor in Germany, and she recommended it to me a while ago after being concerned about the amount of Eumovate I was getting through. I can honestly say it's made a huge difference. The only problem is that it seems to be "prescription only" if you Google it - needless to say, it isn't in Germany, so I'm fortunate in having a reliable source. Maybe it would be worth mentioning it to your GP and giving it a try.Good luck, JW

KiwiPrincess 19 Jan 2012





I get Excema on my face so try to avoid Steroid stuff due to redness but also want to get rid of the Flakes Quick smart. I find that it is worth trying different Stuff, My hrdrcorizone creme dosn't work but in the Valaline type gel it does Something in the creme must be an irritant.



Natural stuff that helps once it starts to come under control

Pawpaw creme- vasaline based stuff, Good on Chapped lips too.

Mebo Burn repair- Sesame seed based Oil stuff that you can use on open sores. Great on any cuts grazes etc too. Speeds healing.

In reply to Liam Brown:I get Excema on my face so try to avoid Steroid stuff due to redness but also want to get rid of the Flakes Quick smart. I find that it is worth trying different Stuff, My hrdrcorizone creme dosn't work but in the Valaline type gel it does Something in the creme must be an irritant.Natural stuff that helps once it starts to come under controlPawpaw creme- vasaline based stuff, Good on Chapped lips too.Mebo Burn repair- Sesame seed based Oil stuff that you can use on open sores. Great on any cuts grazes etc too. Speeds healing.





I suffered with eczema on my hands for the first time when I took up climbing.

I have some epaderm cream which is amazing if they ever flare up again. It can be used in the shower as well instead of shower gels.



Its quite a big tub, so I put some in an empty vaseline pot that I could use straight after climbing.

Touch wood I haven't suffered in two years. In reply to Liam Brown:I suffered with eczema on my hands for the first time when I took up climbing.I have some epaderm cream which is amazing if they ever flare up again. It can be used in the shower as well instead of shower gels.Its quite a big tub, so I put some in an empty vaseline pot that I could use straight after climbing.Touch wood I haven't suffered in two years.

Dave MacLeod 19 Jan 2012

In reply to Liam Brown: I've also suffered with this on my hands and feet all my life and although it's gradually receded on my hands I still have serious problems with feet. As the comments above suggest, individual allergy can have a lot to do with it so experimenting with systematic abstinence from different foods, fabrics, chemicals and countless other things may well yield a clue to an irritant. Dairy, wheat etc was no problem for me but one touch of concrete cement would give me 6 months of eczema on my hands and chemicals/dyes in certain gloves I wore for winter climbing irritated them. Dust also irritates my hands and they often break out after route setting in climbing walls. I was often advised to wear gloves for as many manual tasks as I could but prolonged glove wearing made it worse (lack of air?). Stress is a strong cause for me also, as is lack of sleep. I also experience break outs during seasonal climatic changes and I find if I'm in a continental climate on a climbing trip theres often a rapid improvement. Leaning more on good moisturisers and absolute minimal use of steroids is a good idea. It maintains your sensitivity to the steroids so they actually work when it gets bad. Better to abstain during 'less bad' periods for this reason. Also make sure you don't use your fingertip pads to apply the steroid cream!!!

Anonymous 19 Jan 2012





I didn't have eczema until I was 22, and then I came out bad a la "singing detective" It was totally covering my legs, arms, chest and back. I became an insomniac and it changed the way I was able to go out in public. I didn't wear anything that showed any skin.



I was prescribed a dozen different steroid creams which had little effect other than to thin my skin to the point that it would easily tear.



I discovered that coal tar paste helped to alleviate the symptons. Not sure if you can still get it but worth a try.



Eventually I eliminated everything from my diet and lived pretty much on raw or steamed fruits and vegetables, avoiding pipped fruit like oranges, strawberries or anything else that had acidic content. There is a diet associated with Tai Chi that might be worth a look. www. leestyletaichi .co .uk /page%203.htm (edited cos I don't want to register)



I also stopped using soap, washing up liquid, anything other than mildest washing powder for clothes - ie Ecover.



Somewhat against my sceptical nature, and after about six months of this it subsided and now, apart from a couple of patches on my feet and lower legs, it's normal. I was able to gradually reintroduce lots of the food into my diet.



My situation was pretty bad.



Now I am more or less normal, but I stay away from milk, bio powders, strong soaps, washing up liquids, household dust etc.



What Sam says basically... In reply to La Shamster:I didn't have eczema until I was 22, and then I came out bad a la "singing detective" It was totally covering my legs, arms, chest and back. I became an insomniac and it changed the way I was able to go out in public. I didn't wear anything that showed any skin.I was prescribed a dozen different steroid creams which had little effect other than to thin my skin to the point that it would easily tear.I discovered that coal tar paste helped to alleviate the symptons. Not sure if you can still get it but worth a try.Eventually I eliminated everything from my diet and lived pretty much on raw or steamed fruits and vegetables, avoiding pipped fruit like oranges, strawberries or anything else that had acidic content. There is a diet associated with Tai Chi that might be worth a look. www. leestyletaichi .co .uk /page%203.htm (edited cos I don't want to register)I also stopped using soap, washing up liquid, anything other than mildest washing powder for clothes - ie Ecover.Somewhat against my sceptical nature, and after about six months of this it subsided and now, apart from a couple of patches on my feet and lower legs, it's normal. I was able to gradually reintroduce lots of the food into my diet.My situation was pretty bad.Now I am more or less normal, but I stay away from milk, bio powders, strong soaps, washing up liquids, household dust etc.What Sam says basically...

Jones_88 20 Jan 2012





I have eczema that comes and goes on my arms and legs but I have dermatitis on my eye lid's that started off as eczema and it's a right pain.If I don't use any cream it gets out of controll and I end up not being able to open my eyes I use diprobase a few times a day as a moisturiser when washing my face and any other parts of my skin that I think could get dry. I used to use steroid based creams but they stopped working and I didn't like the idea of prolonged use of them so close to my eyes so I now use Protopic ointment, 0.03% Tacrolimus monohydrate and appart from having to apply it like 3 times a day and diprobase about 4 times inbetween My eye's look and feel completely normal (you can't even see the cream as its transparent)

( I have been using this combination for about 2/3 years now and the rest only seemed to last a few months before becoming resistant to them and i don't think this fecks up your skin)

I do find that any chalk near my eyes does make it worse ( e.g when you itch your face half way up a climb and so on)

Hope this helps

I

m off for allergy testing soon and I reccomend that you do the same

In reply to Liam Brown:I have eczema that comes and goes on my arms and legs but I have dermatitis on my eye lid's that started off as eczema and it's a right pain.If I don't use any cream it gets out of controll and I end up not being able to open my eyes I use diprobase a few times a day as a moisturiser when washing my face and any other parts of my skin that I think could get dry. I used to use steroid based creams but they stopped working and I didn't like the idea of prolonged use of them so close to my eyes so I now use Protopic ointment, 0.03% Tacrolimus monohydrate and appart from having to apply it like 3 times a day and diprobase about 4 times inbetween My eye's look and feel completely normal (you can't even see the cream as its transparent)( I have been using this combination for about 2/3 years now and the rest only seemed to last a few months before becoming resistant to them and i don't think this fecks up your skin)I do find that any chalk near my eyes does make it worse ( e.g when you itch your face half way up a climb and so on)Hope this helpsm off for allergy testing soon and I reccomend that you do the same

Milo 20 Jan 2012





The best thing is to keep your skin soft, my doctor prescribed me doublebase gel, this is a fantastic moisturiser that really helps keep your skin soft and supple. Dans comment about thickly and often is true. The softer and more supply your skin the less chance of splits and cracks appearing. I think you can buy doublebase gel over the counter from good chemists. I tried E45 and climb on but they didn’t help.



Another little thing that helps is always wear gloves when it’s cold, particularly when walking to the crag and between routes/problems. My skin feels softer when its warm and I’m sure this helps prevent splitting. As a last resort when I can when I get bad splits and cant resist the urge to keep climbing is germoline new skin, its like a nail varnish that you paint on cuts, this stops muck getting in the splits. Be careful on new cuts it stings like … Hope you find a solution to this painful problem.

In reply to Liam Brown:Hi, I have bad eczema as part of another condition; as a result I get really painful eczema on my fingers. My fingers split leaving short but deep cuts that can bleed. The advice about avoiding chalk is true, I virtually climb without it these days. When my fingers do split I use a steroid crème to repair the damage, but I only use it to repair damage, not on a daily basis, this it way it doesn’t thin my skin. .The best thing is to keep your skin soft, my doctor prescribed me doublebase gel, this is a fantastic moisturiser that really helps keep your skin soft and supple. Dans comment about thickly and often is true. The softer and more supply your skin the less chance of splits and cracks appearing. I think you can buy doublebase gel over the counter from good chemists. I tried E45 and climb on but they didn’t help.Another little thing that helps is always wear gloves when it’s cold, particularly when walking to the crag and between routes/problems. My skin feels softer when its warm and I’m sure this helps prevent splitting. As a last resort when I can when I get bad splits and cant resist the urge to keep climbing is germoline new skin, its like a nail varnish that you paint on cuts, this stops muck getting in the splits. Be careful on new cuts it stings like … Hope you find a solution to this painful problem.

zephr 20 Jan 2012





Another vote for epidurm (or however you spell it), and for finding a showergel that works and sticking with it.

Lynx is fine for me, and although I look like a desperate teenager everytime I go and buy some, it means that I know Im not going to aggravate eczema any further.

E45 and Aqueous cream are the devils work and just make things a whole lot worse.

In reply to Milo:Another vote for epidurm (or however you spell it), and for finding a showergel that works and sticking with it.Lynx is fine for me, and although I look like a desperate teenager everytime I go and buy some, it means that I know Im not going to aggravate eczema any further.E45 and Aqueous cream are the devils work and just make things a whole lot worse.

Ice Warrior Sam 20 Jan 2012





Yep and another vote for staying away from all the washing powders etc. Ecover clothes liquid is brilliant. No itching at all. In reply to Anonymous:Yep and another vote for staying away from all the washing powders etc. Ecover clothes liquid is brilliant. No itching at all.

Ice Warrior Sam 20 Jan 2012

In reply to Liam Brown: I've also now found cotton lined washing up gloves which are fab as I get allergic to normal marigold types because like Dave M above says you get hot and sweaty and your hands can't breathe. I'm more and more convinced I'm allergic to my own sweat too as I get a rash around my neck when running in crew neck hellys.

Ice Warrior Sam 20 Jan 2012





Sorry to go on but I've done a lot of research into this and others may find it useful. The is a great book called the Food Doctor which tells you what foods are good and bad for certain medical conditions. People who suffer from ezcema, rhinitis and asthmas should avoid inflamatory foods and metallic foods like citrus fruit, caffeine, icecream, dairy, wheat, food from the nightshade family i.e peppers, aubergines and potatoes and bananas (mucus forming so don't help if you having breathing issues). We should eat much more red and black fruits, squashs, apples, kiwis, onions etc.



Can't provide a ISN for the book as I'm moving house today and it's deep down in a box

Sam In reply to Liam Brown:Sorry to go on but I've done a lot of research into this and others may find it useful. The is a great book called the Food Doctor which tells you what foods are good and bad for certain medical conditions. People who suffer from ezcema, rhinitis and asthmas should avoid inflamatory foods and metallic foods like citrus fruit, caffeine, icecream, dairy, wheat, food from the nightshade family i.e peppers, aubergines and potatoes and bananas (mucus forming so don't help if you having breathing issues). We should eat much more red and black fruits, squashs, apples, kiwis, onions etc.Can't provide a ISN for the book as I'm moving house today and it's deep down in a boxSam

Liam Brown 20 Jan 2012

Thanks. This is a lot of information but I think basically it boils down to things I have considered but never implemeneted systematically or jointly. I have begun to cut out dairy and will think about other triggers. Thanks for the tip on the book. I think I will ultimately have to try to be systematic about things, ensure to use the right chalk and religiously wash it off as soon as possible when I've finished, and apply the right creams for me (I will look into the options given here). I do find the climb on bar helpful but not the creme. An antiseptic steroid would be nice too - I basically lost a fingernail after a trip to Scotland in the summer when some cuts got infected.



I am sceptical about homeopathy, although I tend to take pains to be polite about it. After a career as a midwife and health visitor, my mum has become a homeopath.

Hawkscry 20 Jan 2012



> (In reply to Monk) Almost certainly he wasn't saying that homeopaths are snake-oil peddling crooks. Probably.



Snake oil might actually have something in it. Most frequently homeopathy relies on increasingly dilute solutions of an originally benign ingredient, based on the idea that the more you dilute something the more potently it works.....

Let's examine this with some simple maths. These dilutions are often referred to in terms of C, meaning one part in a hundred. Take a typical homeopathic dilution of 30C: one part in a hundred, thirty times over. This would give you a dilution of 1 part in 100 to the power of 30. To clarify, that's one molecule of substance for every 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 molecules of water. Just in case any more emphasis is required, this amount of water would occupy a sphere 150million kilometres across, the distance between Earth and the Sun.

Stick with corticosteroids. In reply to Sir Chasm:Snake oil might actually have something in it. Most frequently homeopathy relies on increasingly dilute solutions of an originally benign ingredient, based on the idea that the more you dilute something the more potently it works.....Let's examine this with some simple maths. These dilutions are often referred to in terms of C, meaning one part in a hundred. Take a typical homeopathic dilution of 30C: one part in a hundred, thirty times over. This would give you a dilution of 1 part in 100 to the power of 30. To clarify, that's one molecule of substance for every 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 molecules of water. Just in case any more emphasis is required, this amount of water would occupy a sphere 150million kilometres across, the distance between Earth and the Sun.Stick with corticosteroids.





Definitely wash hands straight away when you finish at the wall. Use a soap or alternative that you know doesn't affect you too much. Then moisturise straight away. Diprobase is a decent alternative to E45 - no SLS, lanolin etc - you can get it prescribed or over the counter, and they do both the mega-pump tubs and small tubes.



Have you tried getting a referal to hospital if it's really bad? You might have a decent outpatient clinic near you. Worth a go.



Also worth speaking to GP/consultant about different steroids, some modern ones thin the skin less. If you don't ask you don't get!



Good luck! In reply to Liam Brown: Can't be bothered reading the whole thread so apologies if I'm repeating what others have said.Definitely wash hands straight away when you finish at the wall. Use a soap or alternative that you know doesn't affect you too much. Then moisturise straight away. Diprobase is a decent alternative to E45 - no SLS, lanolin etc - you can get it prescribed or over the counter, and they do both the mega-pump tubs and small tubes.Have you tried getting a referal to hospital if it's really bad? You might have a decent outpatient clinic near you. Worth a go.Also worth speaking to GP/consultant about different steroids, some modern ones thin the skin less. If you don't ask you don't get!Good luck!

wynaptomos 20 Jan 2012



After getting advice from a specialist, I've managed to get to a position over the last 12 months where I have it under control by treating the affected areas for 2 weeks with steroid creams(the strongest you can get prescribed) and then just get into the habit of refraining from scratching which I know is not easy. In your case I would say that you would need to stop climbing for that 2 week period. I've been steroid free now for about 12 months which is a massive relief. In reply to Steve John B: I've also suffered from this for most of my life but thankfully not too much on the hands which I imagine is the worst place possible for a climber. I've found that if you can refrain from scratching the affected areas(easier said than done I know) then that is half the battle won. I guess climbing simulates the act of scratching the affected areas on the hands making it far worse.After getting advice from a specialist, I've managed to get to a position over the last 12 months where I have it under control by treating the affected areas for 2 weeks with steroid creams(the strongest you can get prescribed) and then just get into the habit of refraining from scratching which I know is not easy. In your case I would say that you would need to stop climbing for that 2 week period. I've been steroid free now for about 12 months which is a massive relief.

bowstring 22 Jan 2012

In reply to Liam Brown: I use unrefined shea butter on my psoriasis, it doesn't make it go away but its much easier to live with, its the closest thing you can get to the nutural sebum that your skin produces, it can also be used as a barrier cream when gardening or fixing the car so the muck comes off easier so you don't need to use harsh cleansers which can irritate sensitive skin, and it smells chocolatey



> (In reply to Steve John B) I've also suffered from this for most of my life but thankfully not too much on the hands which I imagine is the worst place possible for a climber. I've found that if you can refrain from scratching the affected areas(easier said than done I know) then that is half the battle won.



Obviously you were replying to Liam, not me!



But I agree about the scratching - I had a bad phase of eczema a while back, ended up cutting and filing my nails a couple of times a week so they were always short and blunt - couldn't do any damage that way. What fun. In reply to wynaptomos:Obviously you were replying to Liam, not me!But I agree about the scratching - I had a bad phase of eczema a while back, ended up cutting and filing my nails a couple of times a week so they were always short and blunt - couldn't do any damage that way. What fun.

Madders 24 Jan 2012

In reply to Liam Brown: i get Eczema/dermatitus (Spelling?) from working with oils, i know i few fellas who have had problems because of it and by far the best thing for it i find is Hemp cream from body shop.

Allan Thomson 24 Jan 2012

Try some yellow soft, white soft or 50/50 cream. This might stop the chalk drying out your hands, though it might make them a bit slippery!!!

Gallant 25 Jan 2012

I'm a sufferer of mild eczema on my hands as well. I found not climbing / not chalking for a while until the steroid cream did it's job (and largely removed the eczema from my hands). Using steroid cream followed by a barrier cream to clear my hands took about 4 or 5 days, then I started just using the barrier cream to moisturise my skin, and I've found that I can climb again without my hands falling to pieces. It's not flaired up over the last few months unless I neglect to moisturise for a couple of days, so I guess it worked for me.

chalks 25 Jan 2012





Thanks for asking this, loads of useful responses about stuff I'd not considered (washing the chalk off straight away - total no-brainer, now!)



My eczema is not too bad in comparison to yours, but I find Pure Potions Skin Salvation good.



A mate with bad eczema does the dietary thing already mentioned (no wheat etc) and that seems to work. Also she uses that alternative to chalk (eco chalk? - you can get it at The Castle in London) and swears by that. Good luck. In reply to Liam Brown:Thanks for asking this, loads of useful responses about stuff I'd not considered (washing the chalk off straight away - total no-brainer, now!)My eczema is not too bad in comparison to yours, but I find Pure Potions Skin Salvation good.A mate with bad eczema does the dietary thing already mentioned (no wheat etc) and that seems to work. Also she uses that alternative to chalk (eco chalk? - you can get it at The Castle in London) and swears by that. Good luck.

Anni 25 Jan 2012





As a word of warning (especially for anyone with eczema or who can't use chalk with additives) if you're thinking about going to Font: Pof is everywhere, for obvious reasons, and even if you're not using it it can have nasty effects!! I became sensitised the second year I went and suffered massively with swollen hands, itchiness, blisters and very sore hands as a result. Got round it by using barrier cream before climbing on anything, and using wipes regularly and thorough washing after climbing. Then applied lots of double base for good measure. Thankfully I seem to have stopped reacting to it over the years but it's a bit of a nasty surprise! In reply to Liam Brown:As a word of warning (especially for anyone with eczema or who can't use chalk with additives) if you're thinking about going to Font: Pof is everywhere, for obvious reasons, and even if you're not using it it can have nasty effects!! I became sensitised the second year I went and suffered massively with swollen hands, itchiness, blisters and very sore hands as a result. Got round it by using barrier cream before climbing on anything, and using wipes regularly and thorough washing after climbing. Then applied lots of double base for good measure. Thankfully I seem to have stopped reacting to it over the years but it's a bit of a nasty surprise!

i.munro 25 Jan 2012





> As a word of warning (especially for anyone with eczema or who can't use chalk with additives)



You seem to be implying here that the additive in super-chalk is pof.



Do you know this? I'd find it a bit surprising as I've had no problems with pof, pine-trees or anything pine-tree related. Also I'd expect the colour to be different (yellow-ish)

In reply to Anni:You seem to be implying here that the additive in super-chalk is pof.Do you know this? I'd find it a bit surprising as I've had no problems with pof, pine-trees or anything pine-tree related. Also I'd expect the colour to be different (yellow-ish)

Anni 25 Jan 2012





Nope, just that if you're skin is sensitive enough to react to additives in chalk, it may well be sensitive enough to react to POF. My hands personally react to both, and to liquid chalk, in which all but one brand seems to have Pof in. (last time I looked anyway, that was a few years ago) In reply to i.munro:Nope, just that if you're skin is sensitive enough to react to additives in chalk, it may well be sensitive enough to react to POF. My hands personally react to both, and to liquid chalk, in which all but one brand seems to have Pof in. (last time I looked anyway, that was a few years ago)

anthonylewis 25 Jan 2012

I've really been suffering recently. Bought some Aveeno cream yesterday. Seems to have calmed it a little, but 24 hours is too short to judge. Will be switching to block chalk soon too. See how it goes.



Thanks for the suggestions above. I've read elsewhere that mixing a little tea tree oil into cream can help to heal it. May try that out too.

Simon Reid 25 Jan 2012





Never posted before but as a climber and Dermatologist I figured this would be a reasonable one to jump in. Scanning through the postings you have have had some good advice and some inaccurate advice. Postings such as 'Elocon will not thin the skin' is worrying, as it is a potent steroid and whilst it is a once/day preparation &therefore often convenient, it will certainly thin skin!



I'm repeating bits and pieces that have been mentioned in various posts but I would recommend that the requirement to use an emollient to moisturise cannot be understated. Emollients should be comprising at least 70% of your treatment with steroid reserved for periods when severe. Hands generally are fairly resistant to topical steroid as the skin at this site is normally thick and has a rapid turnover. Obviously prolonged potent steroid will still potentially thin. Remove use of any soap and substitute with epaderm/dermol cream both of which have antibacterials present. Use any emollient you like from the doctor and apply way more often than you might expect needed! Greasy emollients also helpful (anything ending in ointment) but may not be liked for daytime use but under cotton gloves at night are great. If fissuring of skin particularly bothersome then try some orabase or adcortyl in orabase if you can get it, applied to the fissure/hack. These are the preparations used to seal mouth ulcers but will help speed healing of fissure and keep it clean. Again, if fissures main issue then applying Haelan tape at night (steroid impregnated tape) will speed healing also.



If whole hands are very active then applying Icthammol in zinc paste generously slopped over emollient and steroid will give great relief under cotton gloves.... This is just the start of a few options and there are so many small changes which may help. A good well informed GP should be able to help you loads and everything I've mentioned is available on NHS script. Hope you find something that works for you...... In reply to Liam Brown:Never posted before but as a climber and Dermatologist I figured this would be a reasonable one to jump in. Scanning through the postings you have have had some good advice and some inaccurate advice. Postings such as 'Elocon will not thin the skin' is worrying, as it is a potent steroid and whilst it is a once/day preparation &therefore often convenient, it will certainly thin skin!I'm repeating bits and pieces that have been mentioned in various posts but I would recommend that the requirement to use an emollient to moisturise cannot be understated. Emollients should be comprising at least 70% of your treatment with steroid reserved for periods when severe. Hands generally are fairly resistant to topical steroid as the skin at this site is normally thick and has a rapid turnover. Obviously prolonged potent steroid will still potentially thin. Remove use of any soap and substitute with epaderm/dermol cream both of which have antibacterials present. Use any emollient you like from the doctor and apply way more often than you might expect needed! Greasy emollients also helpful (anything ending in ointment) but may not be liked for daytime use but under cotton gloves at night are great. If fissuring of skin particularly bothersome then try some orabase or adcortyl in orabase if you can get it, applied to the fissure/hack. These are the preparations used to seal mouth ulcers but will help speed healing of fissure and keep it clean. Again, if fissures main issue then applying Haelan tape at night (steroid impregnated tape) will speed healing also.If whole hands are very active then applying Icthammol in zinc paste generously slopped over emollient and steroid will give great relief under cotton gloves.... This is just the start of a few options and there are so many small changes which may help. A good well informed GP should be able to help you loads and everything I've mentioned is available on NHS script. Hope you find something that works for you......

DonaldT 26 Jan 2012

Only thing I don't see mentioned above but which helped my brother & another friend is Vitamin E oil supplementation.

(for some reason Oils/Gel Capsules seem to be more effective than dry tablets) . Any decent health food store or a larger chemist should have them.

It needs a few weeks to take full effect so don't expect an overnight cure !

p2-melhuish 19 Feb 2012





I've seen lots of dermatologists for chronic hand and foot dermatitis. I've used most emollients and steroids of different strengths but I still get eczema. Next week I'm starting a new drug called 'Toctino' which is supposed to be amazing for hand dermatitis. I'm also getting patch tests to check for irritant/allergic contact dermatitis. There's not a lot of evidence for ingested allergens causing eczema such as dairy but I have found that cutting out cow's milk does help. Regarding the steroid cream - I was told by the consultant that it should only be used for inflammation. I've found overnight occlusion (hands in polythene gloves) with emollients (10 per cent urea) works best. Try Aquadrate or Calmurid. In reply to Liam Brown:I've seen lots of dermatologists for chronic hand and foot dermatitis. I've used most emollients and steroids of different strengths but I still get eczema. Next week I'm starting a new drug called 'Toctino' which is supposed to be amazing for hand dermatitis. I'm also getting patch tests to check for irritant/allergic contact dermatitis. There's not a lot of evidence for ingested allergens causing eczema such as dairy but I have found that cutting out cow's milk does help. Regarding the steroid cream - I was told by the consultant that it should only be used for inflammation. I've found overnight occlusion (hands in polythene gloves) with emollients (10 per cent urea) works best. Try Aquadrate or Calmurid.

anthonylewis 20 Feb 2012