For all these reasons and more, it is wrongheaded and unpersuasive to claim, as Hayden did, that Section 215 was adopted according to the normal, accepted modes of U.S. democracy. On the contrary, the national security state has taken the radical position that vital matters of U.S. governance should be decided and fleshed out in secret, and then kept from the American people for as long as possible.

That is not what Madison intended.

After the panel, I approached Hayden, who graciously remained to take questions even after spying my name tag. In fact, he said that he'd engaged with one of my articles in his Washington Times column. For exposing himself to critics in various pubic forums, he deserves credit. (Don't miss his "United States of Secrets" interview.)

There was a line, and I'd already pressed him on the dearth of high-ranking officials prosecuted for illegal behavior, like torture, during the panel, so I could ask just one thing.

I brought up news stories about former NSA Director Keith Alexander getting paid $600,000 a month (!) as a cyber-security consultant to corporations in the financial industry. Let's assume that Alexander is an honest guy, I said. Still, that's an eye-popping salary. Should we be worried that high-ranking people with security clearances are monetizing their access to classified information or even selling it to corporations that hire them? Would he worry if he heard this about a retiring NSA director a couple administrations from now? After all, if they were profiting by revealing classified material to corporate clients, how would one even catch them doing it? As a former national-security official who is now a principal at The Chertoff Group, I figured he would at least have an opinion.

He was happy to respond.

Hayden agreed that, in theory, one might legitimately worry about that, but quickly assured me that as someone who knows Alexander he can vouch for his character, even if he didn't expect a journalist who didn't know him to treat that as persuasive. He also said that he purposely refrains from getting classified updates from national-security agencies while working in private industry, and that something he knows about the NSA, but that I don't, would assuage some of my concerns.

He went on to explain that one reason corporations find it valuable to hire consultants with security clearances is their ability to speak openly with other cleared people within the corporation. With that, it was time to let the next person ask their question. Had there been more time, I might have asked whether he believes CIA agents have a moral obligation to become whistleblowers if they witness illegal or unconstitutional behavior, as I believe the Founders would demand of patriots. Amiable to the end, Hayden handed me a business card as I departed. "Keep in touch," he said. "I read your stuff. It's everyday on the CIA press clips."