MaestroSC Profile Blog Joined August 2009 United States 1996 Posts #2 am i reading this wrong... or is it a lot easier to be a low level diamond player as terran than any other race?



which i firmly believe... haha =/. A Zerg and Terran player of equal skill... the Terran will get more wins/points/easier division bump... ?



just my 2 cents... ya i guess im crying imba =/

ziteNiA Profile Joined April 2010 Sweden 73 Posts #3 This is so LOOOL oh dear good please NERF all terran units Day9 for President

Dionyseus Profile Blog Joined December 2004 United States 2068 Posts #4 On September 02 2010 07:43 mnofstl007 wrote:

am i reading this wrong... or is it a lot easier to be a low level diamond player as terran than any other race?



which i firmly believe... haha =/. A Zerg and Terran player of equal skill... the Terran will get more wins/points/easier division bump... ?



just my 2 cents... ya i guess im crying imba =/



You're reading it wrong. Protoss has the most from 600-1100, and then Terran takes over from there. You're reading it wrong. Protoss has the most from 600-1100, and then Terran takes over from there. 9/5/10 P acct: NA D 10,683 651pts 69w56L http://sc2ranks.com/char/us/290365/LetoAtreides T acct: NA D 16,137 553pts 70w67L http://sc2ranks.com/char/us/1560008/Khrone Z: NA G 16,058 465pts 28w26L http://www.sc2ranks.com/us/1997354/Omnius

cup of joe Profile Joined May 2010 28 Posts #5 it means absolutely nothing because the sample size is tiny at the right end of the graph

Dog22 Profile Joined April 2010 United States 140 Posts Last Edited: 2010-09-01 22:49:37 #6 I'm going to guess that around 1200 is when people are able to stop 4 gate pretty well.

NonY Profile Blog Joined June 2007 8355 Posts #7 On September 02 2010 07:46 cup of joe wrote:

it means absolutely nothing because the sample size is tiny at the right end of the graph

There is no sample size. This is a graph of the entire population. There is no sample size. This is a graph of the entire population. "Fucking up is part of it. If you can't fail, you have to always win. And I don't think you can always win." Elliott Smith ---------- Yet no sudden rage darkened his face, and his eyes were calm as they studied her. Then he smiled. 'Witness.'

Haplo_33 Profile Joined July 2010 Sweden 383 Posts #8 On September 02 2010 07:46 cup of joe wrote:

it means absolutely nothing because the sample size is tiny at the right end of the graph

It appears to be 28k players. That is rather large compared to the total population. Even if it was, assuming the distribution is normal within diamond, even 1000 players would be more than enough to make reasonable conclusions with a reasonable margin of error. It appears to be 28k players. That is rather large compared to the total population. Even if it was, assuming the distribution is normal within diamond, even 1000 players would be more than enough to make reasonable conclusions with a reasonable margin of error. Ensuring the security and efficacy of America's Cherry Coke supply system.

Synk Profile Joined April 2010 United States 297 Posts #9 Thats pretty convincing, sure the sample size is smaller at the top end of the graph but your talking about very refined players at that area as well. This means less inconsistency in the results of the game ( ie losing to dumb mistakes, off racing, or cheese loses/wins ). We're taking about basically the top 600 players in the world where it is extremely terran heavy ( I checked on sc2 rankings, the 600th ranked person is very close to the 1200 mark ). Don't argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Redmark Profile Joined March 2010 Canada 2025 Posts #10



'high niveau'? Random French... This is so LOOOL oh dear good please NERF all terran units

yeah let's not. I thought that this was what people mocked WoW players for. yeah let's not. I thought that this was what people mocked WoW players for.

Sentenal Profile Blog Joined December 2007 United States 12238 Posts #11 On September 02 2010 07:46 cup of joe wrote:

it means absolutely nothing because the sample size is tiny at the right end of the graph

I disagree that it means absolutely nothing. Because regardless of numbers, the right end of the graph represents the "top players", and it shows that amoung them, Terran is dominate.



However, it would be nice to see the sample size there to put it into context. I disagree that it means absolutely nothing. Because regardless of numbers, the right end of the graph represents the "top players", and it shows that amoung them, Terran is dominate.However, it would be nice to see the sample size there to put it into context. "Apparently, Sentenal is a paragon of friendship and tolerance. " - Ech0ne

MaestroSC Profile Blog Joined August 2009 United States 1996 Posts #12 On September 02 2010 07:45 Dionyseus wrote:

Show nested quote +

On September 02 2010 07:43 mnofstl007 wrote:

am i reading this wrong... or is it a lot easier to be a low level diamond player as terran than any other race?



which i firmly believe... haha =/. A Zerg and Terran player of equal skill... the Terran will get more wins/points/easier division bump... ?



just my 2 cents... ya i guess im crying imba =/



You're reading it wrong. Protoss has the most from 600-1100, and then Terran takes over from there. You're reading it wrong. Protoss has the most from 600-1100, and then Terran takes over from there.



ooooooo





i read it backwards.



its a lot easier for terran to be at the TOP of their diamond leagues... got it thx oooooooi read it backwards.its a lot easier for terran to be at the TOP of their diamond leagues... got it thx

Vexx Profile Blog Joined March 2010 United States 462 Posts #13 On September 02 2010 07:50 Liquid`Tyler wrote:

Show nested quote +

On September 02 2010 07:46 cup of joe wrote:

it means absolutely nothing because the sample size is tiny at the right end of the graph

There is no sample size. This is a graph of the entire population. There is no sample size. This is a graph of the entire population.



Not quite. He means that there are so few players at the highest point levels that you can't use that information reliably. Not quite. He means that there are so few players at the highest point levels that you can't use that information reliably. I am not nice.

AlphaOfUrOmega Profile Joined August 2010 United States 28 Posts Last Edited: 2010-09-02 02:19:38 #14 I guess something about Terran just naturally attracts all the really sick players, right? (/sarcasm)



But it's interesting how the % of Terran takes off like an exponential while zerg/protoss fall off. Random is perhaps the most interesting; it looks like some really sick players enjoy playing it (maybe for the challenge?), while not-as-sick players try it but cant succeed to the degree that they might if they picked a race and mastered it.



The random peak in zerg at 1300 suggests cup of joe could be correct in asserting that the sample size is too small at these higher point values. Otherwise the trends seem pretty clear.



EDIT: As of Wednesday night, 20 players are over 1500, 48 between 1400 and 1500, 92 from 1300 to 1400, and 205 between 1200 and 1300, for a total of 365 people in the range that shows terran dominance. I am the alpha of your omega, the beginning of your end.

NonY Profile Blog Joined June 2007 8355 Posts #15 As far as I know, sc2ranks is pretty damn comprehensive of Diamond, especially high Diamond (where it seems some people have a problem with the "sample size"). Yeah, the number of people in the 1500+ group is small but that doesn't mean that there is a problem with the sample size. These numbers aren't extrapolated from a small population of the 1500+ Diamond group. These numbers directly represent that group. "Fucking up is part of it. If you can't fail, you have to always win. And I don't think you can always win." Elliott Smith ---------- Yet no sudden rage darkened his face, and his eyes were calm as they studied her. Then he smiled. 'Witness.'

Thecrook Profile Joined April 2010 United Kingdom 10 Posts #16

it means absolutely nothing because the sample size is tiny at the right end of the graph



Almost certainly a terran player who doesnt want your godmode race to be nerfed...



The sample size is significant enough to give good results and for whatever reason it is showing that terran players make up 60% of 1500+ players. It would be very interesting to see this in comparison to the amound on players overall.



For example if 60% of all players play terrain and 60% of players at 1500 diamond are terran its nothing unexpected. However if 33% of players are terrain and 60% of players at 1500 diamond are terran then there obviously is some cause for concern Almost certainly a terran player who doesnt want your godmode race to be nerfed...The sample size is significant enough to give good results and for whatever reason it is showing that terran players make up 60% of 1500+ players. It would be very interesting to see this in comparison to the amound on players overall.For example if 60% of all players play terrain and 60% of players at 1500 diamond are terran its nothing unexpected. However if 33% of players are terrain and 60% of players at 1500 diamond are terran then there obviously is some cause for concern

Redmark Profile Joined March 2010 Canada 2025 Posts #17 On September 02 2010 07:52 Sentenal wrote:

I disagree that it means absolutely nothing. Because regardless of numbers, the right end of the graph represents the "top players", and it shows that amoung them, Terran is dominate.



However, it would be nice to see the sample size there to put it into context.

You can't just say 'regardless of numbers'. If there was 1 player and he was Zerg there would be 100% Zerg.

~15 people isn't completely meaningless but it's not too huge either. It's hard to tell whether actual gameplay concerns or just perception are more influential. Either way, we shouldn't just go crazy on a kneejerk reaction. We need small steps, and also to factor in maps and such. You can't just say 'regardless of numbers'. If there was 1 player and he was Zerg there would be 100% Zerg.~15 people isn't completely meaningless but it's not too huge either. It's hard to tell whether actual gameplay concerns or just perception are more influential. Either way, we shouldn't just go crazy on a kneejerk reaction. We need small steps, and also to factor in maps and such.

ReplayArk Profile Joined August 2010 Germany 23 Posts Last Edited: 2010-09-01 23:02:44 #18



In fact I think that the top 100 player are quite more important regarding the game's ultimate balance than the player below that. I guess that the top 100 player on the ladder aren't the top 100 player in the world, though.





@cup of joe even if the sample size is small on the right side it still means something... You just have to be more carefull about what you are telling. For example the 1500 entry got a total of 20 which is big enough for my opinion. If you go to 1400 you even got 36 and a little more down at 1000 you got 971 entries. If you watch some geographical studies you often ask 40 to 200 people, leading to a subset of a dozen people which is quite bad, but often enough to motivate further questioning.In fact I think that the top 100 player are quite more important regarding the game's ultimate balance than the player below that. I guess that the top 100 player on the ladder aren't the top 100 player in the world, though. We need small steps, and also to factor in maps and such.

@Redmark I absolutely agree, I think it is clear that minor gameplay changes can have huge impacts (nerfing the reaper speed down by 0,1 means one extra hit off creep). I think the map factor is quite important if we watch the distribution's change. Korean BW Pro-League maps are much more special than most of the SC2 maps, right now. @Redmark I absolutely agree, I think it is clear that minor gameplay changes can have huge impacts (nerfing the reaper speed down by 0,1 means one extra hit off creep). I think the map factor is quite important if we watch the distribution's change. Korean BW Pro-League maps are much more special than most of the SC2 maps, right now.

Mikilatov Profile Blog Joined May 2008 United States 3897 Posts #19 Pretty eye-opening, it seems.



I'm glad that this graph pulls up an interesting point though, Terrans aren't really that overpowered except at high levels in the hands of 1000+ point diamond players. ♥ I used to lasso the shit out of your tournaments =( ♥ | Much is my hero. | zizi yO~ | Be Nice, TL.

Grummler Profile Joined May 2010 Germany 743 Posts Last Edited: 2010-09-01 23:00:10 #20 So, as long as you are not 1200+ diamond, imbalance is too small to have an effect? I can live with that, thought it is worse. What about win percentage, does it favor terran in top diamond that much as well? *is checking sc2ranks.com* workers, supply, money, workers, supply, money, workers, ...

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