SH: Well, it started with the hostility that I received simply by not agreeing that vaccines were safe and effective, and could be given to virtually anybody regardless of how sick they were. There were arguments tossed at me from on high—that smallpox was eradicated by vaccination, that, polio was eradicated at least in this hemisphere by vaccination, and that pretty much it was God’s gift to mankind. I actually did get that by diffusion through my medical training. I never critically thought about it. I really never had a reason to or I didn’t think I had the reason to.

That research, just to counter the arguments that I was being met with, to justify vaccinating sick patients on their first hospital day, was what got me to start researching smallpox and polio. Even that had actually nothing to do on what was happening in my sphere.

In my research, I was startled that it was completely counter, what I found was completely counter to what I have been told and fought my entire life. I now don’t believe that smallpox vaccines eradicated smallpox. I now don’t believe that polio vaccines eradicated polio. The stories are very twisted, long, and complicated, and the vaccines have changed over time. It’s really easy to kind of throw up smokescreens here and there and kind of make whatever argument one might want to, because people are so ignorant and because the story is so complicated.

DM: Before we go any further, those are some pretty startling accusations. Really, when I first read them in your article at Weston Price, I was really impressed with the arguments there. I’m wondering, for our viewers, if you could summarize them. Because as you mentioned, these are the two strongest arguments that are given to support vaccines—the historical evidence. If you defy or ignore this fact, you’re just a heretic, a lunatic, and an irrational person or professional who needs to be locked up with your license taken away.

Why don’t you at least… I mean, just spend as much time as you like because I think this is a really crucial point. If you could summarize it in a way that the average person can understand it and explain it to their friend or their neighbor, because this is so crucial.

SH: So, you’d like me to talk about smallpox and polio?

DM: Yes. Because I think that’s a foundational component of the arguments that are given for pro- vaccines. If you could really dent that argument or at least put a serious suspicion on it, then I think you have fairly good grounds for refuting more current vaccines, which have virtually none of that going for them, and in many cases, it’s only negatives.

SH: Okay. Well, one of the things that I can say for sure is that every vaccine has a story behind it. Every vaccine had its susceptibility, had its spreading factor. The diseases are all different and the stories behind the vaccines are all different. But when I started with smallpox, which is a disease I really knew nothing about, except that when I was in school, the way they decided if we were immune or not was they lined us all up to see if we had a scar, which was about as unscientific as one can get to look for immunity.

But smallpox vaccine was actually developed long before there was anything at all known about the immune system. Basically it was made by scraping pus off the belly of a cow. Sometimes there was some goat genetic disease in there. There was horsepox mixed in there. There was sometimes human pox mixed in and some glycerin. They would shake it up, they would take kind of a prong, and puncture the skin several times.

DM: Were these any old cows?

SH: In some cases, people were given four or five of these red, these circular vaccines on their body—sometimes the leg or sometimes the arm. What I didn’t realize was that there were many people who died after they were vaccinated. There were many people who developed serious smallpox disease and died after they were vaccinated. The severity of disease was often worse in the vaccinated than the unvaccinated. There are statistics that show that the death rate was higher in the vaccinated than the unvaccinated.