Wendy Williams is the unabashed id of daytime talk TV, a host who gleefully splashes around in the same celebrity gossip pool into which her peers genteelly wade. Williams’s brashness, honed during her ’90s run as a controversy-seeking D.J. on New York’s Hot 97 radio station and then perfected over the last decade on “The Wendy Williams Show,” has made her nearly as much of a celebrity as those whose foibles and failings she scrutinizes live on camera five times a week. But over the last year the 55-year-old has, for the first time, found herself in the tabloid glare, as her marriage of 21 years collapsed amid substance abuse and rumors of infidelity. She has learned some lessons, though not the ones you might expect. “No,” Williams said about whether her recent experience has diminished her enthusiasm for dishing dirt. “My show is what it is, and I love what I love.” Which is? “Intruding in on the lives of celebrities.”

You’ve been in the gossip business for a long time. How has social media affected people’s appetite for details about celebrities’ private lives? These days people feel as if they have the right to information from celebrities, because if they can’t get that information from them directly, they can get it through social media anyway. But I haven’t changed. I consider myself the original. I’ve been doing this for years and been vilified. Now everybody’s doing it. It’s not necessarily fair that the public feels the way it does. Celebrities have a right to privacy. My approach has never been that I’m prying. If you’re a celebrity, and you invite me over for dinner, I’m not talking about that. But if I’m at a party, and you’re there with somebody other than your wife, I’m calling my Hot Topics1 bureau to make sure we talk about that on the show.

But most of the gossip on your show doesn’t come from things you’ve personally observed. So help me understand the distinction you’re making. What privacy lines won’t you cross? In radio the line didn’t exist. There were no limits. Men, women, children, your dog, let’s go. And by the way, I have no regrets.

Not even about when you would have discussions on the radio insinuating which rappers you thought were in the closet?2 Everybody’s gay now. I was ahead of my time.

Doesn’t insinuation about people’s sexuality seem as if it’s of a different order than other gossip? All I can say is that I regret nothing. Some of the things that I’ve said might have stung. I sleep comfortably at night. I wasn’t coming from a bad place. I am a kinder Wendy now because I’m on TV. If I were on the radio I would still be just as reckless. I’m on main TV, not cable. I have a staff. I’m responsible for over 100 people. And David, believe it or not, they actually like me. Regret, I can’t.

What’s wrong with regret? I don’t know. When you find the answer, please tell me. David, honestly, I am working on gray areas in life. I am so black and white. I’m working on understanding some of the personality tics that I have, and one of them is that I don’t regret. Help me understand that.

My guess is that you feel that if you open the door to regret, you’re worried about what else might come in along with it. That’s good, David. I need to understand a middle ground. Which I don’t. If you’re with me, you’re with me. If you’re not, you’re dead.

Wendy Williams at the WRBB Radio Station in 1985 at Northeastern University, where she was a student at the time. From the Northeastern University Library’s Archives and Special Collections

What about the idea, sometimes used as a justification by tabloids, that when celebrities exploit their fame as a commodity then they also have to accept that their personal lives become fair game for the public? If you want to be private, then stay in the house. You’ve got enough money as a celebrity, and your house is gorgeous, so stay in there. It’s unfair to say that but I say it.

Has being on the other side of the gossip equation changed your feelings about any of this? I walk out of my building to go to work in the morning, and the paparazzi cameras go click-click-click. But it hasn’t changed my opinion. Because if my opinion changed, then I might not have a job. I know why people listened to my radio show: It wasn’t to hear 12 songs in a row. I know why people watch “Wendy”: Hot Topics.

Well, along those lines: There have been some very unsettling rumors3 about what was going on between you and your ex-husband. The divorce is not finalized.

Sorry, your soon-to-be-ex-husband. Yes, please.

How much truth is there to these rumors? Kevin had a major indiscretion that he will have to deal with for the rest of his life. An indiscretion that I will not deal with. He will always be my family, because we have a 19-year-old son, and we were together for 25 years and married for 21. But there was no vacillating. I’m out. That’s all I can say. People want me to hate and scream and talk. I won’t. It bothers me that people say [Williams begins to cry] — it bothers me that people say, “Keep it as clean as you can, because you have a child together.” That’s not the main reason to keep it clean. The main reason I won’t talk badly about Kevin is that he was my first true love. I will not have people talk badly. I talk filthy about him, but that is when I get in my apartment and the door is closed and I am talking to myself in the mirror. I never thought that I would be in this position. I’m a very forgiving person, but there’s one thing that I could never be a part of, and that one thing happened.

What’s the one thing you could never be a part of? Kevin has a daughter.4 I was sitting on a plane two days ago. I was next to a man who was probably wondering, Who the hell is this lady with a negligee? I love a negligee. He was watching “Page Six TV,” and he said, “Is that you?” And I said: “Yes, it’s me. Please don’t tell me what they’re saying.”

I know that you were living in a sober house5 at some point when everything was hitting the fan with your marriage. Was that because you’d fallen off the wagon or because you were worried you might fall off the wagon? I was concerned based on what was going on around me. I’d done my detective work. I knew what was about to happen, and I was like, Let me go someplace where you’re not allowed to have the whole bottle of wine. Cocaine has been off my map for years.6 I don’t take pills. I wasn’t doing anything off the wagon. When you see your husband’s mistress with a burgeoning belly and you’re a blabbermouth on TV with a successful show, you know what’s about to happen. I needed to go someplace quiet. When you go to a sober house, it’s like being in jail. I needed to not be interrupted by anyone. There was not one friend that I could call, because everyone would have dumbbell answers to a very serious situation. My husband was about to have a baby, and I knew that I was about to divorce. I knew that there would be headlines. I had to process it so that once I came out, I came out on top. I didn’t work for three decades to land at the bottom over some [expletive] like this.

What does it mean for you to come out on top? When I look in the mirror, I like me. The only way that I could do that was to go and sequester myself. I know that sounds like an odd choice, but Wendy handled this.

Wendy Williams, top left, with her family in 1974: her parents, Thomas Williams Sr. and Shirley Williams, and her siblings, Thomas Jr. and Wanda. From Wendy Williams

Have there been times when you’ve looked in the mirror and not liked what you’ve seen? Oh, please. I grew up a fat girl.

Does the intensity of the tabloids’ attention have something to do with the tables-have-been-turned aspect of your story? Absolutely. It’s fascinating to people that I was this woman who ferociously talked about celebrities. I just went for it. There was something about the rise of Wendy that people now delight in seeing the demise of my marriage. But I won’t let them win. You know why? Because I’m fearless. I’m fearless, and I learned something from my mother. There are three people that I admire the most.

Who? [Williams begins to cry.] God, you’re catching me.

I’m sorry. I’m a crier, too. It’s O.K. I admire Oprah, Howard Stern and my mother.7 All three have helped shaped me. Oprah, the talk-show icon, that’s No. 1. Need I say more? Howard: His style was my style. I am not a copycat, but Howard gave me permission to be exactly who you are, damned what the bosses and audience think, because if you’re smart in your delivery, they’ll find it fascinating. And my mom is a tiger who hides behind giggles and a girlish voice. She has no idea the impact that she had on me, for good and for bad: “Wendy, if you gain one more pound,” and “No, you can’t have seconds.” But also: Have your own money and keep your nails done and your waist tight and learn how to cook something.

Those lessons, particularly the ones about physical appearance — Yeah, I got all this plastic surgery. My mother’s lesson to me regarding womanhood was about being as beautiful as you can at all times. It doesn’t mean that you put on a full face of makeup to watch the Lifetime movie on Sunday when you’re at home by yourself. It means that when you pass the mirror you still want to see something nice. I don’t care if I’m only by myself, I don’t walk around my house in sweatpants.

Where do you think you stand in the pantheon of talk-show hosts? I was talking to Irv Gotti8 last night on the phone. He called me “Oprah for our generation.” So where do I see myself fitting? I guess I’ll go down in history.

For what, exactly? Saying it like I mean it. I want to go down as being the realest who ever talked it.

Tell me something outrageous that you’ve never talked about in public before. I can’t think of anything.

Williams on the set of her show in 2017. From The Wendy Williams Show

Be real, Wendy. O.K. Now that I’m single, I will not fart in front of a man that I am dating. Those days are over. For instance, I had somebody over the other day, but I felt, you know, the air. I’m like, “Oh, God.” I went up to my bathroom. I turned on the fan so it was nice and loud and I just let it rip.

A second ago you mentioned your admiration for Howard Stern. He seems to have such a good handle on the anxieties and neuroses that drove him to be such a wild man earlier in his career. Do you have similar insights? Why did you pursue a career that always puts you in the middle of celebrity drama? Because it was easy. I’m a natural at this. The bureau comes to me in the morning, and I’ve already heard the stories. But in real life right now, because I am Hot Topics, I don’t bring that stuff to my apartment. My friends and I don’t have those conversations. If somebody dares ask, “Did you know Prince Harry did this?” I’m like, “Get out!” I don’t like that.

What’s your theory about why people are so interested in celebrity gossip? Because celebrity lives are something that people can live vicariously through. It takes people’s minds off their own troubles. Everybody has troubles.

Is living vicariously through others what you find appealing about gossip? Yes. Celebrities do things that I wouldn’t dare but is fun to watch. Like when Taylor Swift showed up to Gigi Hadid’s 24th birthday party at a restaurant here in New York. The theme was denim. Kylie Jenner was there. Gigi’s mom was there and her sister, Bella. Everyone wore denim to this restaurant. Here comes Taylor Swift wearing a pink jacket and some muslin shorts or something. I’m like, are you serious with this? How much attention do you want? This is New York. It’s a 24-hour city. You’re not a woman with a problem size. Why didn’t you stop at a bodega and pick up a pair of denim shorts and a T- shirt and oblige appropriately?

The other day I was watching during Hot Topics, and you had some item about Leo DiCaprio’s girlfriend. During the segment you said he had eyes that made you think — He’d do ya dirty.

Yeah, and then you made a choking gesture. Was that prewritten? It was exactly the kind of thing that only you would do on daytime TV. Where does this stuff come from? I’ve never had a writer in my entire career. At one point I relented. I had a really good girl. She was one of David Letterman’s writers. She was lovely, but after, gosh, maybe a month, we ended up using her in another capacity. You can’t write for me. I’m not going to sit on the phone all night with you to go over jokes. I do what I do from the bottom of my heart and the top of my brain. My mind goes a million miles a minute. When the announcer says, “And here’s Wendy,” it’s like being shot out of a cannon. I’m not scripted. It’s really me. So the thing about being choked out, well, you know, who doesn’t like a good choking?

On that note! I am often accused of being the person who says things that people really want to say but maybe are too scared to say it. Through the grace of God, people have given me permission to say those things for 10 seasons. I get in trouble sometimes, but it’s all good. Actually, I can’t even think of what kind of trouble.

Just tabloid headlines, I guess. “Wendy likes to be choked out.” Men, don’t even approach me if you’re not going to give me that danger eye. It’s just the kind of girl I am.