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Hospital wouldn't treat dying vet - VA says its call to 911 right action

spokesmanreview.com ^ | October 7, 2006 | Jody Lawrence-Turner

Posted on by lunarbicep

A Spokane man watched in desperation as his dying friend struggled for breath, but he couldn't get immediate assistance from professionals just inside Spokane's Veterans Affairs Medical Center.

Instead those VA staffers dialed 911 to get help for the man in the hospital parking lot.

"Calling the fire department was quicker than getting equipment and bringing it back out or finding someone who could offer the medical assistance," said hospital director Joe Manley.

Paramedics arrived in four minutes, according to Spokane Fire Department dispatch logs.

Clinton L. "Foxx" Fuller, 83, of Spokane, died at Deaconess Medical Center, an hour and 10 minutes after his friend pleaded for help at the Veterans Affairs Medical Center.

"This man who fought three wars was dying in front of the VA Hospital, and no one inside would help," said the Rev. Eugene Singleton, who drove Fuller to the hospital. "I thought a professional person, no matter who you are, who has taken an oath to save lives, would help."

The death was "an unfortunate thing, but medically the patient was handled in the appropriate way," Manley said.

Fuller's funeral is scheduled for 10 a.m. today, said Singleton, who will deliver the eulogy.

Fuller had been a regular patient at the VA Hospital, officials and his friend said. So when Singleton got a call on Sept. 30 from Fuller's wife, Marilyn, saying her husband wanted to go the hospital, the request wasn't out of the ordinary.

Singleton, who is a reverend at St. Matthew Institutional Baptist Church, said he often took Fuller to the hospital.

"I asked if it was urgent, and his wife said 'Whenever you can get here,' " Singleton said. "After I got there, it took him a while to get out of the house. He brought a little bag with his Bible and such. He wanted to go to the hospital to be treated for his asthma and emphysema."

When the two were almost to the care facility, Fuller slumped over onto Singleton's shoulder, and the reverend couldn't wake his friend.

Singleton arrived at the VA Hospital about 4:35 p.m. He ran into the urgent care center, yelled for help and returned to his car with a wheelchair. A security guard appeared outside and told Singleton the clinic had closed five minutes earlier, but 911 had been called.

Manley said the timing had nothing to do with the fact that Fuller wasn't helped by VA staff.

"The patient arrived at our facility in respiratory distress," the hospital director said. "The most skilled people we had went out to the patient, but you have to have the professional equipment to do the work," and with the ambulance showing up quickly, the VA nurse and physician did not tend to Fuller.

The procedure Fuller needed would have required a tube being put down his throat to help him breathe, Manley explained.

"When paramedics arrived, they stretched Fuller out on the pavement and went to work on him vigorously," Singleton said. "They hooked up the life-saving equipment. When the ambulance got there, they loaded him up immediately and took him to Deaconess Medical Center.

"The doctor at Deaconess came out at exactly 5:45 p.m. and said there was nothing they could do," Singleton said. "He was dead."

Singleton felt his friend, who fought in World War II, Korea and Vietnam, was treated with disrespect when no one at the VA Hospital offered medical assistance. He was also frustrated that despite a $3.2 million expansion of the hospital in 2005, the facility closes its urgent care center at 4:30 p.m. each day.

In July, Spokane's Veterans Affairs Medical Center eliminated the center's nighttime hours.

In a June 28 Spokesman-Review article, the mid-afternoon closing time was justified by a spokeswoman who said "very, very few patients come in after the hours of 4:30 p.m." and denied the facility was ever equipped for trauma patients.

Singleton, who is also a war veteran, said after his recent experience he has instructed his wife to never take him to the VA Hospital.

"I don't want to be treated like that," Singleton said. "I get emotional every time I think about it."



TOPICS:

Miscellaneous

KEYWORDS:

emergencycare

healthcare

threadhijacking

vahospital





To: lunarbicep

and yet...those who are here illegally, some who loathe the U.S. are treated everyday for free (to them). So so sad!



by 2 posted onby takeemout (God Bless Jesse Helms!)

To: takeemout

and yet these fools at VA claim they are ready to handle mass casuaties from a terrorist attack. We're living in a dream world.



To: lunarbicep

Deport the illegals, and take care of our veterans!





by 4 posted onby nj26 (Border Security=Homeland Security... Put Our Military on the Border! (Proud2BNRA))

To: satan

I have yet to see a VA clinic or hospital that is really set up to handle emergency care.



Also how many "Beavers" (Beneficiaries, Veteran Administration) use the VA clinic for *non-service related* medical complaints? How will the VA deal with the many Vets from OIF I and OIF II? Only time will tell.



by 5 posted onby ASOC (The phrase "What if" or "If only" are for children.)

To: satan

>>>and yet these fools at VA claim they are ready to handle mass casuaties from a terrorist attack



As long as the attack happens before 4:30



by 6 posted onby teacherwoes ("It's not those who vote who are important; it's those who count the votes"- Josef Stalin)

To: lunarbicep

Instead those VA staffers dialed 911 to get help for the man in the hospital parking lot........... "Calling the fire department was quicker than getting equipment and bringing it back out or finding someone who could offer the medical assistance," said hospital director Joe Manley. ............ Paramedics arrived in four minutes , according to Spokane Fire Department dispatch logs. If the Fire Department response time was 4 minutes to that particular spot, it seems that calling 911 was the correct thing to do. The Fire Department EMT's have everything they need already packed up and ready to roll at a moment's notice. Just because a "staffer" works at a hospital does not mean he has any knowledge to offer in an acute medical emergency. In regards to the ER, VA centers can be huge and it could take a lot longer than 4 minutes to get a crash team running out to a parking lot on the opposite side of the campus.



To: lunarbicep

Paramedics arrived in four minutes, according to Spokane Fire Department dispatch logs. Not to defend the actions of the VA staff in question, but if the Paramedics arrived in four minutes it is highly doubtful that anything the VA hospital could have done in those four minutes would have made a difference. But on the other hand to say that they could not have grabbed an intubation kit and a bag on the way out to a respiratory distress patient is beyond my understanding. These are not large or heavy objects and should be common in any hospital.



by 8 posted onby Pontiac (All are worthy of freedom, none are incapable.)

To: nj26

"Deport the illegals, and take care of our veterans! "



It needs to be said at least twice.



by 9 posted onby HuntsvilleTxVeteran ("Remember the Alamo, Goliad and WACO, It is Time for a new San Jacinto")

To: Polybius

You're exactly right. Calling the 911 number was the correct thing to do in this case. Everybody wants to be victims right along with the victim. Leni



by 10 posted onby MinuteGal (Israel, Hold Firm !................No Retreat means No Repeat !)

To: lunarbicep

This REALLY, REALLY Pisses me off!



"The Spokane VA Medical Center is dedicated to providing quality health care services to veterans. In carrying out this mission, the VAMC focuses on providing primary and secondary care, with emphasis on preventive health and chronic disease management."



snipped from link below....there is a page linked here for the Spokane VAMC's unique website, but THAT site is presently down!



http://www1.va.gov/directory/guide/facility.asp?ID=126



To: lunarbicep

I think this reporter fouled up this story big time. The VA has VA Hospitals which are regular hospitals and have an ER. The VA also has Medical Centers which are usually a complex with various clinics to see specialists.



This is how it works where I am, and if it works the same in Spokane then this man was not mistreated.



There is a VA Medical Center in El Paso, it looks like a small hospital and some people even refer to it as a VA hospital- it is not a hospital. It is really a complex of Drs offices. You go there to see your primary care physician and there are also **some** specialists there. They have a pharmacy. They have no ER, they have no way to treat life threatening things, only minor things. It's out patient based.



The actual VA hospital for us is located in Albuquerque, it is a full fledged hospital with an ER. There are not that many full fledged VA hospitals nationwide. Where we are we can either go to Albq. or Tucson VA hospitals, both about 4 hours away. There are VA clinics in many small towns, and the Medical Center in EP that I already described.



What it seems happened to this man is he asked to go to the Medical center, to see his Dr. and what he really needed was a hospital ER. If this was like the VA Med. center in El Paso that I am familiar with- they would have had to call and get an ambulance to get him to a hospital. (of course in EP Wm. Beaumont Army Hospital is next door- but not everyone eligible for VA care is eligible to be treated at WBAMC- hubby luckily is- so we don't have to go to Albq.)



For those not familiar with the VA system- think of it this way- if you are in the parking lot of your Drs office and you collapse- they will do their best to treat you and call 911 to get you to a hospital. That is exactly what I think happened here.



It seems this reporter did not do a lot of checking to see what happened and why. I am not surprised.



by 12 posted onby Tammy8 (Please Support and pray for our Troops, as they serve us every day.)

To: Tammy8

cut the nonsense



This is G o o g l e's cache of http://www.healthyjobs.com/statejobsearch.cgi?location=West&pro= as retrieved on Sep 30, 2006 04:02:44 GMT.





ER Staffing needed at Spokane VAMC. IM's or FP's or ER physicians needed to cover 24/7.



http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:XLKZ7Ad5yRoJ:www.healthyjobs.com/statejobsearch.cgi%3Flocation%3DWest%26pro%3D+Spokane+VAMC+ER+emergency+room&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=3



To: lunarbicep

I'm guessing a bit here, but I bet the M.D. at the "urgent care center" isn't practiced at intubating, nor had the equipment at all. "Urgent Care" centers are not ERs, and do not provide the same level of care.



Many UC centers here in Jacksonville, FL will gladly see someone with a broken arm, X-ray it, and then send them to the ER to have it treated. This always comes as a surpise to the patient that didn't realize that UC centers provide a very low level of care.



They should really start calling them Non-appointment Family Clinic Centers.



by 14 posted onby SampleMan (Do not dispute the peacefulness of Islam, so as not to send Muslims into violent outrage.)

To: Vn_survivor_67-68

I didn't mean for it to be "nonsense." There is a difference in facilities- I don't know how it works in Spokane- I do know how it works here for us. Hubby has been going to different VA facilities in this area for many years. They keep changing the names of everything and it is confusing.



If this Spokane facility does have an ER and is a full-fledged VA hospital then I do think they should have cared for him and not sure why they didn't. They may have been negligent or they may have been right that they couldn't care for him, and needed 911. He was taken to a civilian hospital according to the article- why was that? This is still a poorly written article and did not ask or answer the right questions. Why would a full-fledged hospital close at 4:30? That sounds like a regular VA complex w/Drs. Then you posted the want ad for ER personnel so I am just confused now, they must have an ER of some sort.



Maybe a freeper in the area can tell us what sort of facility this really is- I know many VA facilities have down-graded and some have closed in the past few years.









by 15 posted onby Tammy8 (Please Support and pray for our Troops, as they serve us every day.)

To: lunarbicep

Sounds like a veterinary clinic to me!!



To: SampleMan

Guessing at best is that the person had advanced COPD. CO2 poisoning is many times right around the corner. I have family with this condition and have been to ER over it. People not trained to recognize CO2 poisoning, may not realize how serious the event is. Blood gas for a normal person will be 35 to 50, COPD patients are 45 to 70. Death occurs at 180 + -. After seeing a person saved (gas level 156) by a level IV trauma center, does a real appreciation set in for how swift, and silent this killer can be.



If our government took the care of veteran's to the level it should be, we'd have leveled IV trauma centers at VA locations. Both party's of the government have been coddling the illegals, for so long you'd think they got the vote of the illegal! It's breaking the medical community's back here in the west. I'm still waiting for illegals to defend our country by joining our military (will die of old age first).



It's a crime to see the way this country treats it's veteran's who risked their all, vs an illegal pickers with all kinds of rights not earned!



To: Vn_survivor_67-68

Here is link to their review in 2000, it does list that they do acute and surgical care. Acute care sounds like ER to me but I am not a medical person. What happened does not make sense, they should either be able to handle emergencies or not and I still can't figure it out. There has to be some reason the man was taken to a civilian hospital.



http://www.va.gov/oig/CAP/00-02062-22.pdf#search=%22VA%20Medical%20Center%20Spokane%20%22



by 18 posted onby Tammy8 (Please Support and pray for our Troops, as they serve us every day.)

To: Tammy8; LucyT

"There is a VA Medical Center in El Paso, it looks like a small hospital and some people even refer to it as a VA hospital- it is not a hospital. It is really a complex of Drs offices. You go there to see your primary care physician and there are also **some** specialists there. They have a pharmacy. They have no ER, they have no way to treat life threatening things, only minor things. It's out patient based." "The actual VA hospital for us is located in Albuquerque, it is a full fledged hospital with an ER. There are not that many full fledged VA hospitals nationwide. Where we are we can either go to Albq. or Tucson VA hospitals, both about 4 hours away. There are VA clinics in many small towns, and the Medical Center in EP that I already described." I agree Tammy8, it's the same here in Mobile...the hospital is in Biloxi.

If you call the VA here, the first thing that is said is: "If this is an emergency, hang-up and call 911." The VA is getting a bumb-rap on this, IMO. You don't go to your GP's office if you're dying, you go to an emergency facility. My dad died of a heart attack in the parking lot of his heart doctor, I don't blame the doctor.



To: blam; Vn_survivor_67-68

I've been trying to track this down and I guess even the VA hospitals have different levels they can handle. They call it Tertiaty level. Albuquerque VA Hospital is a Tertiary level 1 which means basically it is a full fledged hospital, and they work with the civilian hospital/medical school there. Tucson is also a Tertiary level 1. What we need to know I guess is what Tertiarty level the Spokane facility is. It sounds like it is a hospital, but maybe not a high enough Tertiary level to treat this man.



It is confusing, and I am not sure how they expect Veterans to keep up with it- how are they supposed to know if their local VA hospital is a "real" one or not.



This also makes me angry, this man and his family may not have even known they could not treat him there. If that is true then it is negligence- maybe not of this hospital, but in the system.



I also totally agree with other posters that illegals are treated better medically than our veterans. An illegal can show up at any ER and get treated, they don't have to know how a complex system works to show up at the right ER to get treated for what ails them. Illegals use the ER for primary care and if a Veteran tried that- they would end up with the bill. If we don't follow all the millions of rules of VA care, and get all the right approvals for treatment for my hubby- we will get stuck with the bill.



by 20 posted onby Tammy8 (Please Support and pray for our Troops, as they serve us every day.)

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