Caller: Well, it is the initiation of force to not allow people to enter into the country.

“Yes, and it is to prevent a greater initiation of force by the massive consumption of the welfare state and dedication to a party that itself is dedicated to expanding government to the nth degree, which is the leftists.

You’re only focusing on one side of the equation. The debt is all on innocent people because the debtis intergenerational. 100% of the debt is going to fall on the next generation. So, if you say that 10% or 20% or a couple of percentage points of the illegal immigrants who aren’t going to get on welfare are unjustly coerced, then okay. But, 100% of the debt that the remainder are generating is going to go on 100% of innocent people called the kids. So, you can raise me with 20 or 30% innocence and I’m going to trump you with 100% of innocence.

First of all, nobody can tell who will or will not go on welfare, although there could be an IQ test that would help, but it’s illegal to administer it, so who cares. But, is it fair to say to the children that the quality or your education is going to be significantly worse because half the resources in your school district is going to go to figure out how to teach traumatized kids with an IQ of 85%.

Do you have the right to inflict that kind of degradation on the quality of education on children across America? Are they not innocent? Do they not deserve as good an education as can be provided to them? Are you not stripping them of possibilities and futures? Plus, what about poor black kids who are having a significant degree of trouble competing with illegal immigrants who aren’t having to pay taxes of follow regulations to get jobs.

What about the black kids? What about the native people? What about the whites, the Hispanics, the Native Americans, the blacks who can’t get jobs because wave after wave after wave of people are coming in and driving up the cost of legal jobs because of the amount of welfare taxes that have to be paid and driving down the cost of under the table jobs, which the immigrant networks are all set up to exploit, while no native networks exist.

And so, what about the young black kid who can’t get a job because it’s been taken by an immigrant? More immigrants have come into America over the past decade than jobs have been created. So, statistically immigrants are taking away jobs and driving down wages — it’s supply and demand. Libertarians and free market economists should understand this. Huge numbers of low skill, low education and possibly low intellect people all coming into a country, what is that going to do to the price of low skilled, low education labor? It’s supply and demand bitches, you can’t fight it.

So, what about those people? Are you going to stand in front of one hundred million American children and say, ‘Sorry, you don’t get music lessons. You don’t get to play outside. Your playground doesn’t get repaired. You have to sit with old textbooks in cold classrooms because I want people who don’t speak your language and who don’t know your cultural values to come in. And by the way, you’ll be in debt another 50,000 dollars for each of you because of my preference for open borders.’

Look, if people can say that then I admire their consistency, if not their ethical integrity, but these are the stark realities of the effects of immigration.

Caller: You are a voluntaryist right?

Right, which means I want a free society. Now, the way to get to a free society is for people to treat their children better. So, if I think a free society requires a country or a geographical area where people treat their children better, do you think that Europeans treat their children better or do you think that Muslims treat their children better?

Do you think that a culture that has really focused on banning spanking or at least focused on reducing the amount of aggression in childhood is something that I would prefer to be surrounded by in my quest for a free society through better parenting or say people who think that sawing off the labia of twelve year old little girls is a really fucking great thing to do?

Which group do you think is going to be better equipped to lead society to a free society through better parenting? Your average white western European christian or your average IQ 85 Islamic?

The Europeans. So, if people from Europe since Rousseau for the past 150 years have focused on improving the relationship between parents and children — I believe it is absolutely functionally and totally necessary for peaceful parenting to bring a peaceful and free society, so if I want to live in a free society do I want people around who are better parents or who are worse parents?

Better parents. It’s perfectly consistent with my goal for a free society to want people around who are better parents, rather than parents who are aggressive and violent and clitorectomy-based parents.

Caller: But, in order to accomplish that you need to initiate force against innocent people.

So, what? In order to not go to jail I have to pay the state. It’s not a moral situation. Don’t fucking put the morals on me, I’m the guy fighting it. Go yell at the IRS, why don’t you go yell at the people on welfare and tell them about the morally-compromised situation they’re in. Why the hell are people bringing it to me?

Caller: Well, I’m curious because everything you say is usually morally consistent and it just breaks away…

I am morally consistent. I have said in a situation where there is coercion, where there is violence no matter what there are no moral standards to be applied. There is no moral choice to be made in a coercive situation. If somebody puts a gun to your head and tell you to walk left or to walk right, whether you walk left or walk right is not a moral choice. No morality exists when there is coercion.

When it comes to immigration, there is no possibility of a consistent moral choice at the moment. In the future, free society — open borders away! Fantastic! Because then we have a choice. Right now we have no choice because immigration is a giant government program and if the immigrants come in huge amounts of violence will be enacted against the young, against those on fixed incomes, and not to mention very high rates of crime among immigrant populations, which we’ve talked about before.

So, if the immigrants from third-world countries come into America, it will result in the vast escalation and hazardously resulted, statistically, demonstrably, according to the experts with all the data — it has resulted in a vast increase in the initiation of force in society.

And you say, ‘Ah, well keeping immigrants out also requires the initiation of force!’ Yes, let’s say that it does. So what? The initiation of force is going to happen under any context you can consider other than a magical, unicorn-based free society that will never occur tomorrow because libertarians wont focus on peaceful parenting. So, there’s going to be coercion no matter what.

There’s coercion to keep them out and to keep them in there’s even more coercion. So, if you want the immigrants to come in just be honest and say, ‘I’m willing to accept the coercion of the immigrants coming in.’ But, it is dishonest and tendentious to the maximum to only focus on one small potential act of violence called keeping people out and to completely ignore all of the amounts of violence that is occurring by letting people in.

I mean, if libertarians can stand in front of a group of hundreds and hundreds of Swedish women and say, ‘Yeah, it’s fine that you got raped because I don’t want to have border guards push people back’, then fine. Go talk to the Swedish women and say, ‘Your bruised and battered and blond faces because you got raped, fine, it’s for my moral self congratulation.

It’s because I’m afraid of being called a racist, it’s not because I have any consistent application of the non-aggression principle, otherwise I’d be all over that spanking thing Stef’s been talking about forever. It’s because I wanna feel good about letting people in. I don’t wanna be thought of as a racist. I wanna be thought of a cosmopolitan. I wanna be thought of as an egalitarian and I just want to focus on one tiny little aspect of the initiation of force and ignore all of the other initiations of force that occur just to satisfy my moral high ground.

Pathological altruism.

But, if people are willing to say, ‘Yeah, I wanna let people in and the result is far greater crime, much worse educational outcomes for the children, massive increases in the national dept, and a complete entrenchment of the welfare state and all of the intended destruction on the poor the welfare state entails’, great! Fantastic. Say, ‘I don’t want that border. I don’t want that initiation of force at that border, I’m willing to take a far greater initiation of force elsewhere’, fine! Say it! Just say it and be honest about it.

But, don’t be one of these people who are like, ‘Ah, yes, you see there’s this government program that created 500 jobs, so we’re now richer!’ The whole point of libertarian thinking and economic thinking and just plain thinking is to not look at the obvious benefits, but to look at the hidden costs. And there are huge violent, coercive, destructive, direct, repetitive, government escalating costs by allowing third-world people to come into a first world country.

And if people want to have open borders to third-world immigrants they have to be honest about the violence that causes in society.

- Stefan Molyneux (Podcast 3170- Dusty P3n!s Syndrome)