READER COMMENTS ON

"NH VIDEO: 'Shame of Custody' - Breakdown in Ballot Storage Procedures in New Hampshire Primary 'Recount'"

(50 Responses so far...)





COMMENT #1 [Permalink]

... Dredd said on 1/25/2008 @ 12:28 pm PT...





Yep, the shame of custody is par for the course in Amurkan elections now. And John Dean (not the sausage dude) points out that of the last 9 recessions in the US, republican preznits presided over 8 of them. Those 8-1 odds are about what I give for election reform of the meaningful kind to take place in Amurka anytime soon. No more money left to waste on junk machines. The congress and preznit blush are over tazzering the cadaver of the Amurkan economy hoping it will magically transform into the American economy they inherited. Frankenstein the bushie. Stimulus is just another word for circle jerk in the daze of Amurkan electioneering.

COMMENT #2 [Permalink]

... sadunkal said on 1/25/2008 @ 12:49 pm PT...





I've seen this video a minute ago on www.ronpaulforums.com and was about the send the link it to you

COMMENT #3 [Permalink]

... Buck said on 1/25/2008 @ 1:01 pm PT...





I love what a couple of people with an agenda can do with conjecture. Anyway, anyone else notice the way they placed the tape on the box and rubbed their hand over it gently so that it wouldn't stick completely while continuing to hold up the edge? Compare that to the way they put the tape over the doors (at 3:50) where he really presses it down to make sure it sticks properly.

COMMENT #4 [Permalink]

... Bev Harris said on 1/25/2008 @ 1:40 pm PT...





Buck - It doesn't matter. Both Sally Castleman and Kathy Greenwell got video of the seal on the door peeling of like a post-it. And apparently this kind of sham seal is not new in elections - They used it in San Diego in the presidential primary in 2004. The producers of "Hacking Democracy" have footage of this in a preliminary 30-minute film they put out called "Votergate." I would like to challenge you to go to your local office supply store --- forget special security seal distributors --- and just buy any old printable label stock. Stick it on a box as gently as you wish, and you'll see you can't peel it up that way. These so-called "seals" were made to be easy to reaffix. Note that the tape doesn't even wrinkle or adhere to itself when you peel it off. Just as the secretary of state's office KNEW of Ken Hajjar's criminal record when they allowed his firm, LHS Associates, a sole source vendor status to code every memory card in New Hampshire, they KNEW of this issue with the seals.

COMMENT #5 [Permalink]

... buck said on 1/25/2008 @ 2:30 pm PT...





Of course you can peel it off just like that assuming you stick it on gently. But really, you and the people that believe that are free to beileve what you want. I've found no matter the evidence you can never convince a true-believer of a conspiracy. Please don't read anything into this, as I don't know the whole story and am just curious. Are you the same Bev Harris that Democratunderground.com accuses of scamming money from the website and/or it's members?

COMMENT #6 [Permalink]

... skeptic94514 said on 1/25/2008 @ 2:51 pm PT...





My Grandparents must be laughing in their grave. In their day, they had steel ballot boxes with keys.. list of precients with the number of votes cast. Not this laughable process. How can the SOS Gardner sleep at night knowing that he is running such an incredibly sloppy election process?

COMMENT #7 [Permalink]

... Dan said on 1/25/2008 @ 4:04 pm PT...





Someone needs to go over to Salon and help Farhad manjoo understand a thing or two about election integrity before he poisons his captive audience even more. http://machinist.salon.c...25/nh_recount/index.html

COMMENT #8 [Permalink]

... John Y said on 1/25/2008 @ 4:07 pm PT...





In NY State, many of my "progressive" friends are celebrating because the state approved optical readers instead of DRE. Ok. But I just sent an email reminding one of them that it was the optical scanners that were hacked in the Florida test. And so it goes... By the way, Buck, this isn't a conspiracy theory. So far , nobody has been able to explain how Clinton defied all the polls and an exit poll from MSNBC to win in NH. We think you might want to count the ballots before you say she really did do that.

COMMENT #9 [Permalink]

... bruce said on 1/25/2008 @ 4:21 pm PT...





Buck, your capability for critical reasoning isn't worth a buck.

COMMENT #10 [Permalink]

... Phil said on 1/25/2008 @ 4:23 pm PT...





democraticunderground.com doesn't care about election integrity. And in some cases doesn't care about facts either. I can't find the original long thread. Buried now perhaps by DU away from google's indexing. If you have search capability on DU. I think searching for Kelvin Mace, steveheller, Bev Harris, Brad Freidman, Paul Lehto should bring up the roughly 1000 post thread. Part of it. (Sort of) http://www.democraticund...=203&topic_id=473855 No DU doesn't care about election integrity. Even I even left shortly after getting responses like this:

http://www.democraticund...37686&mesg_id=339310 They don't care. They just want to fight, and hijack threads. I ain't sure their motivation. Maybe the owner isn't even a democrat? My Speculation... All I notice lately is every time the truth is shown new (anonymous) come out to attack. The whole "DU vs. Bev Harris war" isn't helping you get your constitutional right to vote back. They cut off their own noses, why? So they can put up their own version of Blackboxvoting.org? No, otherwise we'd see it, and we don't see it.

COMMENT #11 [Permalink]

... nobody said on 1/25/2008 @ 4:28 pm PT...





{Ed Note: If you're going to be a nobody, you're not going to be giving out people's home addresses and phones. --99}

COMMENT #12 [Permalink]

... Bev Harris said on 1/25/2008 @ 4:33 pm PT...





DemocraticUnderground owner David Allen has co-habited with Hillary Clinton's "HILLPAC" financial director, Shelly Muskwa, for some years. Shelly's sister also is employed by Hillary. This information can be confirmed from campaign finance databases and through some of the corporate records of Democratic Underground. Buck, if you have evidence that I have done anything illegal, please produce it --- EVIDENCE, not rumor or smears. Our financial statement is posted on our Web site for all to see. If you do not have evidence, you are engaging in libel. Cease and desist. Bev Harris

COMMENT #13 [Permalink]

... Phil said on 1/25/2008 @ 4:36 pm PT...





It's time to go after that New Hampshire SOS, and other SOS's, ROV's, and bad legislation in EVERY state. Time is ticking, and barely anything has been solved since HAVA. (except for in a few places) So really non action and continued arguing is only going to slow everything down long enough for bad counts, and the wrong candidates sworn in. If that's what you want keep fighting the people that are fighting for your rights. Cause the corruption ain't gonna stop until they ruin the rest of America. And the rest of America is looking for someone else to do the work to protect them. They don't realize that person to protect America is looking at them in the mirror. But just like all the rest of the news, you'll probably forget all this in an hour or two when the American version of the Central American "deathsquads" go out (American style) on broadcast tv know as "time wasting sitcoms", and "other junk news like Britney." It's no coincidence. It is our version of it. The more you watch, the more they keep you docile while they rape, maim, and steal more and more.

COMMENT #14 [Permalink]

... Phil said on 1/25/2008 @ 4:42 pm PT...





Bev, Thanks for that info on the DU owners. I didn't know. I don't believe PAC's of any political party are going to get our right to vote back.

COMMENT #15 [Permalink]

... Bev Harris said on 1/25/2008 @ 4:46 pm PT...





FYI --- Bill Gardner is the PR guy. Look deeper for the masterminds, or Gardner's handlers/hammerlockers. Look a lot more closely at David Scanlan, who handles ballot chain of custody. I have just learned that it was Scanlan who decided to delay and shut down the recount next week, and this was apparently done WITHOUT the knowledge of Gardner. Bill Gardner has reportedly reinstated the recount. I think Gardner got boxed in. Question is, by whom? I'm more interested in some of the surrounding characters than I am in Gardner.

COMMENT #16 [Permalink]

... Dredd said on 1/25/2008 @ 4:47 pm PT...





Oh poor troll doesn't know that you can't buck reality. Anything for a buck buck?

COMMENT #17 [Permalink]

... Dredd said on 1/25/2008 @ 4:57 pm PT...





buck said:

I love what a couple of people with an agenda can do with conjecture. buck loves ... isn't he darling? buck also said:

anyone else notice the way they placed the tape on the box and rubbed their hand over it gently so that it wouldn't stick completely while continuing to hold up the edge? No, I didn't notice that because it did not happen. They were laughing there asses off and so was I because it is a collosal JOKE. Security? Give me a friggin break dude. I know "a heckuva job" when I see one, and this is pure "seal bullshit". Bubble gum security is what it is. None are so blind, buck, than those who refuse to see the picture when it is before their eyes. Buck finally said:

Compare that to the way they put the tape over the doors (at 3:50) where he really presses it down to make sure it sticks properly. What kind of bullshit is that? You have to be a haaaarrrrrddddd presser to make the "seals" work? Buck, get back to the cracker-jack election security your mind can handle ... this is as serious as a heart attack. Stop clowning. If you think this post-it on a cardboard box thingy is real security, hey, all I can say is Stalin has a bridge for sale dude.

COMMENT #18 [Permalink]

... John Y said on 1/25/2008 @ 5:21 pm PT...





People, it is happening right here in New York! For years (centuries?) we've had the lever machines. They work. Now, because of HAVA, we have to get "compliant" machines. This means spending money, making creepy diebold type corporations more money, and ending up with the optical scan - because the "progressives" have decided that is what is "secure." ARRRGH!

COMMENT #19 [Permalink]

... Mugzi said on 1/25/2008 @ 5:48 pm PT...





18 - It doesn't take much of a stretch that Repubs are fighting to put hackable machines more so in New York,CA - where the electoral votes are highest and the states usually go blue. With all due respect, where does all the data that Bev Harris collects go? This lady has been collecting data since before 2004, can't it be used in court to put an end to machines??

COMMENT #20 [Permalink]

... Grizzly Bear Dancer said on 1/25/2008 @ 6:03 pm PT...





Before the next November election, the US people must take back control of their OWN system of elections to ensure that the candidate who wins the most votes of their election is actually the person who takes the oath of office. The American people need to abolish all electronic computer voting machines that are all hackable as well as permanently eliminate computer voting companies who count the US votes in secrecy. Currently, a computer voting company assumes complete and total control of counting the electronically cast votes and without any oversite at all. Forget about the old electoral college for now. Except for the handicapped vote, we need paper ballot trails and full transparency of the vote counting process with any age Americans allowed to view as long as they're not disruptive. Paper ballots should be kept in special US safety containment boxes that are locked up and stored at an approved state voting storage facility for safe keeping. Even transportation of the ballot boxes should be by an armored car voting transport vehicle to protect the chain of custody in case a recount is required. America needs to have a new national holiday every 2 years to ensure democracy and it can be called Voter's Day. No one has to die to get honored for it's celebration, just the death of how US elections are run until these changes occur. If you're American, you vote , you get the day off with pay! If it takes a new domestic revolution to force the corrupted in power to fix the broken US election system this summer then i will fight. I will fight for the unknown American soldier giving his life in bush's Imperialistic illegal conflicts to protect my American constitutional rights and values in Afganistan and Iraq. He/she does not have the luxury of that choice.

COMMENT #21 [Permalink]

... Phil said on 1/25/2008 @ 6:10 pm PT...





John Y, In my opinion, A hava compliant machine only needed to assist the disabled print a paper ballot. It didn't need to tabulate votes electronically. Say the military want's a part built. They give specs, specific instructions of what they want. The slightest deviance and the part will be rejected. But in at each polling precinct (a plethora of chaos) there were no specific instructions, no specs. Just an open market full of the cheapest junk garbage without the slightest plan about security, until forcibly tacked on half-measured as an after thought. What this nation needs is a team that has the power of authority oversight over all these (plethora of chaos nonsense precincts) and to assemble a team that will produce standards for ALL polling places. With chain of custody and security considered first and where cost of no concern or tacked on as an after thought. Every application on your windows (or linux) desktop doesn't need to have email and automatic updates built into it. Sol doesn't need email capability, and neither does etherape on linux. Voting machines don't have to have electronic tabulation. They just needed to be a glorified printer for someone having trouble voting. Beyond these machines, as we are seeing now, is the chain of custody of the paper, and the fast tracking of the swearing in of a candidate based on counts either reported by the media or unvalidatable altogether. Mix that up with election fraud, caging, the lack of any common sense to deal with it like nullifying a corrupted election. And we are where we are. Both democrats and republicans are guilty of the same. It's like we need a citizen oversight taskforce with the power of the cops behind US or something. Then say when some issue like this nonsense with these seals comes up, they (all parties in the taskforce agree) to use some damn superglue! Or when ballots are not being put into a secure vault, (The taskforce agrees) and says NO, were putting these ballots in a vault, and it will be guarded 24/7 by the taskforce. This is just nuts man. We have lost our right to vote. It's no wonder I get angry at times. Enough time has passed to fix this problem. If I had to hold elections for the BLOCK on my neighborhood, I could do it without ANY money! And it would be 100% accurate and there'd be no need for all this nonsense. I mean come on. A lot of disabled folks have their OWN computer, why can't we use that to print a ballot?! Plug in a damn printer on their USB / parallel / 1394 whatever port. We just need a printer that can print and won't fail if the power goes out. This is stupid. These people buying these machines are stupid, if the law was bad, the second they saw that it should have been nullified. Come on man we are not enemies, WE ARE AMERICANS. wtf!?

COMMENT #22 [Permalink]

... molly said on 1/25/2008 @ 6:24 pm PT...





Crooks and Liars finally broke their long standing rule and put up an article about elections. They say no problems in N.H. As with any gate keeping (progressive) blog ...the commenters knew the score and pounced. Instead of apologizing for the error..John got all pissy. If you go there ,,it is probably down now...its right under the Kucinich resigns article. Everytime I wrote a comment it would take forever ...then the computer would freeze. DU may not be pure but I still like them. The comments are usually better than the articles. We need more progressive blogs.

COMMENT #23 [Permalink]

... Bob In Pacifica said on 1/25/2008 @ 6:26 pm PT...





I need someone with a little more expertise to go over to Salon.com and read Farhad Manjoo's article. The gist is that there was nothing wrong with the vote, just the tin foil hats, move along.

COMMENT #24 [Permalink]

... buck said on 1/25/2008 @ 6:31 pm PT...





To everyone that responded directly to me, I see no point to continue the discussion, other then: Keep up with the conspiracies and I hope one day you either find something or finally come to the conclusion that there is nothing to find (hah) Bev Harris said: Buck, if you have evidence that I have done anything illegal, please produce it --- EVIDENCE, not rumor or smears. Our financial statement is posted on our Web site for all to see. If you do not have evidence, you are engaging in libel. Cease and desist. That made me laugh Bev. Thanks.

COMMENT #25 [Permalink]

... Grizzly Bear Dancer said on 1/25/2008 @ 7:08 pm PT...





We have much less time to accomplish this goal than most people have been led to believe. The good news is we still can save over 1 million species from extinction if we quickly pull together as a team to lower these harmful greenhouse gases heating up the planet. For example, if we took the attitude that moving forward, we are going to immediately give business incentives and create jobs to get people to start changing the way they use and create energy, we could mandate a plan to lower carbon dioxide emissions that melted the North Pole 3 times the size of Texas last year. We want change and we want it now! We want to end the US pre-emptive war for oil and prosecute the bush administration for many treasonous crimes such as selling nuclear secrets to Pakistan. Former FBI translator Sibel Edmonds named 25 high level officials involved and while this story has experienced a complete BLACKED OUT by all US mass media sources, it has been front page new around the world since reported in the British Times. Traitors in the US government have used the corporate mass media as their personal tool to repeatedly lied and mislead the American people, therefore, must be charged with high crimes and misdemenors. We want to end the US occupation of Iraq and change our direction to keeping peace, promoting conservation, and habitat preservation. Once America changes it stance from aggressor to defender, we can begin to repair our relationship with all world countries. Strong charasmatic leadership and vigilance will rid the world of nuclear weapons although we must acknowledge that the work of the bush government has caused some massive irreversable damage to our country and world in crisis.

I just want to ad a plug for Dennis Kusinich for President because while I didn't get the lowdown on his campaign from his website, I'm totally for waving the white flag to become the great defender once again. Like wage peace now. You can always take a step back to be keepers of the peace? Right yeh right.

COMMENT #26 [Permalink]

... Phil said on 1/25/2008 @ 7:24 pm PT...





Well Buck, if you don't actually do some reading and learning outside of what corporate (not in the public interest) media tells you, then you'll only be enabled to spread their propaganda. We could just pretend we don't know why you showed up on Bradblog, but the reality is every person that showed up here has a reason.

COMMENT #27 [Permalink]

... Linda said on 1/25/2008 @ 7:35 pm PT...





Sorry, NH, but your SoS appears to have been drugged into a zombie-like trance. Is he a legitimate descendant of the Live-Free-or-Die folks? If the California Highway Patrol were to pull over someone who acted like he did in this video, he'd probably be arrested just for being weird ... in California no less!

COMMENT #28 [Permalink]

... buck said on 1/25/2008 @ 7:38 pm PT...





We could just pretend we don't know why you showed up on Bradblog, but the reality is every person that showed up here has a reason. eh, one last reply. I've been following this blog since the NH recount was announced while chuckling to myself about some of the misinformation and jumping to conclusions that was going on. Never felt compelled to post, happy just to be witness to the absurd. That video, though, whew... that one required some type of reply. Were you expecting somethign more sinister?

COMMENT #29 [Permalink]

... karen said on 1/25/2008 @ 8:17 pm PT...





what we expect in new hampshire is

1.memory cards open for inspection

2.the original result tapes

3.any changes accompied by a receipt(written verifacation of y the change and a signiture)

4.poll books & registration lists

5.proper chain of custody all ballots ,cast and un cast

8.proper containers and security

9.the assurance that clerks understand the ballot well enough to report it

10.paper ballots

did i forget anything?

COMMENT #30 [Permalink]

... Agent 99 said on 1/25/2008 @ 9:13 pm PT...





Okay, buck, you can go back to your private amusements now.

COMMENT #31 [Permalink]

... GWN said on 1/25/2008 @ 11:47 pm PT...





#22 The article is still up. It's with the Lou Dobbs post and all comments are still there.

COMMENT #32 [Permalink]

... plunger said on 1/26/2008 @ 2:35 am PT...





The Romney Whisper heard on MSNBC debate: That voice heard whispering is none other than Mitt's. Now the MSM needs to admit for a FACT that all of the candidates are provided with the questions IN ADVANCE. Clearly he was provided the questions in advance, and this was his own prepared reminder - played back to him when he wanted to hear it. Mitt likely had a wireless ear piece and a transmitting device in his hand that he alone could activate - which contained prerecorded brief prompts to get him heading in the right direction with his answers. His own wireless microphone channel (on the podium) picked up the signal that was transmitted from his recorded answer to his ear piece as a digital audio signal and it played through the house speakers and on television. That whispered voice IS Mitt Romney.

COMMENT #33 [Permalink]

... Justin Maxwell said on 1/26/2008 @ 3:57 am PT...





If you go to the photo essay from a couple of days back, you can see an actual used 'seal' label from an actual ballot box being peeled off a couple of inches and then stuck back down.

COMMENT #34 [Permalink]

... nobody said on 1/26/2008 @ 8:02 am PT...





{Ed. Note: Are you, like, five? --99}

COMMENT #35 [Permalink]

... markg8 said on 1/26/2008 @ 8:13 am PT...





I've never spent much time at DU but I'm appalled the rest of the netroots like DKOS is also so vehement in their defense of the SOS and the way they run their elections in NH. They regurgitate his statements and articles from the Manchester Union Leader without even factchecking them. They call that the reality based community? Bev I know you've been abrasive in the past. I remember reading one of your accounts of trying to get election officials in a FL jurisdiction after 2004 to provide info and it sounded like you were driving them batshit crazy. A lot of confrontation rather than cooperation right from the start. Can't say I blame them or you. Nobody wants outsiders coming in telling them how to do their jobs. It's hard to politely tell someone they're incompetent or worse. I didn't see any of that antagonism in this video with the zombified, stonewalling Gardner. There has to be some way to get this news out there. Every time I engage people and point them to the videos on Bradblog, or invoke Bev Harris's name there's a whole hoard of them ready to pounce as if I'm citing a Dick Cheney speech. I haven't kept up much with the blog battles about this stuff but it doesn't look like we're winning them. I just went thru one with DHinMI, MarkinHudsonValley, and another guy at Kos and it's frustrating. They closed their minds, locked themselves into their positions before Kucinich even called for a recount and won't even bother to look at the evidence. For the life of me, after FL

2000, OH 2004, Fl again in 2006 I can't figure out why. You don't have to believe goofy stuff like Gardner is secretly a Republican or even someone threw the NH election to Hillary to know just by looking at the evidence that NH runs a crappy election on the cheap, and that their recount procedures are a joke.

COMMENT #36 [Permalink]

... Yetimonk said on 1/26/2008 @ 8:14 am PT...





Over at Bluehampshire.com there is a front page article by Elwood Dowd about the "shameful activists". I dialog with him a bit

COMMENT #37 [Permalink]

... Nate said on 1/26/2008 @ 8:37 am PT...





Instead of attacking Buck we should be focused on helping the people of New Hampshire get a fair count. If that can't happen then any NH delegates should be disqualified.

COMMENT #38 [Permalink]

... Dredd said on 1/26/2008 @ 12:05 pm PT...





Who would have their money carried around in anything other than an armored truck? But ballots, the DNA of democracy are carried around in walmart boxes where you can reach in and grab what you want. People have exposed their values here ... some value the buck over freedom ... but some value freedom over the buck ... If the SoS in NH is the standard, then the standard in Amurka is pass the buck ... screw the freedom. Like in Germany just before the holocaust ...

COMMENT #39 [Permalink]

... sadunkal said on 1/26/2008 @ 1:27 pm PT...





Theoretically, isn't it possible to force a hand count in every state if someone(a brave hacker patriot?) would admit (lie) that he/she hacked the voting system somehow? If they can't disprove it, then they can't ignore it completely and they'll have to recount the votes by hand. I simplified it a little, but am I wrong?

A good person goes to jail, but saves the world. Well, one for each state actually. If I were in America I'd do it immediately. Someone willing to sacrifice him/herself?

COMMENT #40 [Permalink]

... Paul Adams said on 1/26/2008 @ 5:50 pm PT...





Brad may be the Paul Revere of the Election Integrity Movement, however, as he rides through town giving his loud warnings, the people in their homes are listening to their i-pods.

COMMENT #41 [Permalink]

... Mugzi said on 1/27/2008 @ 7:09 am PT...





Back in 2004 there was glaring evidence that the election was fradulent; yet, the election was certified! Kerry caved and here we are! I believe the Senator from CA was- can't remember her name - was the only one, maybe Conyers too (I can't remember!)made exception. For 2008, for crying out loud, if the election smells like fraud - don't certify it!!! I'm not psychic but I will bet 2008 will be full of computer errors and inconsistencies.

COMMENT #42 [Permalink]

... markg8 said on 1/27/2008 @ 8:12 am PT...





sadunkal on 9/11/2006 of all dates I was finally able to meet with my Republican congresswoman Judy Biggert along with the Illinois exec director of Votetrust USA after bugging her office for a month. We were there to try to convince her to support Rush Holt's election reform bill. My argument was that she could get on board his bill as a co sponsor or wait til we took over congress and deal with a Stubbs Jones bill she really hated. I told her that there was a very real fear that these machines were so insecure that someday just to make a point a hacker would see to it that a Denny Hastert would lose to Mickey Mouse and not a John Laesch. Advocating breaking the law by hacking the machines is not only wrong it's self defeating. Any such action would give this issue to the Republicans. If you like what they did with emergency disaster management after Katrina you'll love how they handle election reform.

COMMENT #43 [Permalink]

... the zapkitty said on 1/27/2008 @ 12:06 pm PT...





... markg8 said... "We were there to try to convince her to support Rush Holt's election reform bill." Which Holt bill? The fatally flawed and literally unworkable H.R.811? Or his improved but still flawed H.R.5036?

https://bradblog.com/?p=5490 ... and yes... I'm sure the Holt noise machine is still screaming at someone... somwhere... that terrible bills will be passed if Holt's bill isn't passed "NOW! NOW! NOW!" Of course there really are bills in committee that are actually worse than Holt's efforts... but that's still not a good reason for making bad law on matters that are so vital to this country. As for myself? Call me an optimist, but I'm holding out for the bill Brad keeps hinting at

COMMENT #44 [Permalink]

... abacus said on 1/27/2008 @ 1:02 pm PT...





Holt strikes out again? 1. Audits are only conducted at the whim of the jurisdiction. 2. Audits are to cover fixed percentage of votes [ 3 % ]. So jurisdictions afflicted with fraudsters don’t audit. And innocent jurisdictions do not get a really robust audit plan. Fixed percentage designs are considered worst when elections are close... It is true that the bill requires NIST to approve proposed alternative audit plans submitted by jurisdictions. But jurisdictions needing more robust plans will not necessarily [a] realize it [there are 180,000, remember; and many are uncomfortable with statistics and especially with arguing about them with politicians] or [b] wish to set a higher standard. For text see http://noleakybuckets.or...LT_EMER2008FINAL_xml.pdf

COMMENT #45 [Permalink]

... pat driscoll said on 1/27/2008 @ 2:21 pm PT...





for non-americans, it is painful to have our news follow every minute of the years-long US elections. just think of what does not make the news as this endless farce plays itself out.

to observe the indifference of dkos/du/nation/salon/huffpo etc to election fraud only makes watching the corpmedia daily manipulation more unbearable.

basically u r in a state of permanent elections.

the entire process in the US needs to be changed. let the parties decide who to put forward and have a four-week run-up to voting day.

COMMENT #46 [Permalink]

... markg8 said on 1/27/2008 @ 6:48 pm PT...





zapkitty and abacus I agree that the 2006 was less than perfect. But 2 months before the election it was important to get as much support as possible, especially from Repubs for any bill. The point of my post above was that sadunkal call for a hacker to take one for the cause is detrimental.

COMMENT #47 [Permalink]

... abacus said on 1/27/2008 @ 9:22 pm PT...





MARKG8 # 46; # 44 MHO - #44 - refers to the NEW bill; I certainly don't want to revisit the discussions of HR 811.

COMMENT #48 [Permalink]

... the zapkitty said on 1/28/2008 @ 12:15 am PT...





Yeah but... 1.) Holt has insisted that H.R. 811 is "waiting in the wings" (as I've said elsewhere, it's more like a crazed thespian being restrained by stagehands)... in other words he insists that Holt's Fiasco is good to go as far as he's concerned, and he seems to have learned nothing from its failure to pass so far. Not a good sign for anything else he may write on this particular subject. 2.) Holt's new bill H.R.5036, while a definite improvement over 811, does not supercede or supplant his old bill and some of 5036's flaws are actually designed to blend it in with the eventual passage of the old, unacceptable, bill. So when people talk about endorsing Holt's Fiasco, even in passing, without debate or acknowledging its many documented flaws... the board lights up red and alarm klaxons start going off. It's not that I, myself, would discourage mention of the old bill at all... it's that the severe reality disconnect imbedded in the supporters of the bill by Holt's deliberate (and documented) gaming of the election integrity movement hangs like a pall over mention of anything connected to the bill. And that disconnect is something to be corrected and discouraged, I believe.

COMMENT #49 [Permalink]

... markg8 said on 1/28/2008 @ 10:25 am PT...





And again my point is there is nothing to be gained by calling for someone to hack an election to prove the machines are awful. It's akin to burning a flag to disagree with Bush's foreign policy. It won't get

positive results, it'll only make things worse.

COMMENT #50 [Permalink]

... markg8 said on 1/28/2008 @ 11:48 am PT...

