That’s very true. So what do you think needs to occur in a film from that era for it to be considered a true noir?

Well, for me, it’s simply that noir are stories in which the protagonist is compromised in some way, that he’s not heroic. I’ve said a few times that, to me, noir is all about people know they’re doing the wrong thing and they do it anyway. For whatever reason it may be, they will do the wrong thing, maybe out of some pure motivation, like, “I have to rob this bank to get the money for the operation that’s going to pay to save my daughter.” Or it’s just they’ve given up on the program, like Fred MacMurray in Double Indemnity. It’s just like, “I’m going to do this just to prove that all this stuff is a bunch of nonsense, and the world exists for you to get away with whatever you can get away with.” And I certainly think that, that has sadly proven to be the case in our country these days, that whatever you can get away with is what you can get away with.

But I think that that was something that wasn’t really allowed on movie screens until the noir movement steamrolled it, which it allowed audiences to empathize with people who were doing the wrong thing, which they really tried to stay away from, right? I mean, that’s why they have the Production Code, and that’s why they have the whole “crime does not pay” thing. All of which holds up in the end of all these classic noirs. Nobody gets away with it, but the difference is that the audiences empathize with the people who are trying to get away with it. Because they could see themselves like, “What it would take for me to be in that position, where I would say, ‘Yeah, sign me up. I am going to participate in this bank robbery. Or, ‘Yes, I am going to kill her husband and try to get away with it.?’” You know?

Isn’t that the purpose of art like this, is to allow you to imagine that and experience that without actually having to do it? Which is a great service of art, I think. A lot of people complained about these movies at the time, saying they were a bad influence. And it’s like do you really think that people are so silly that they can’t tell that this is just a story? It’s not really advocating that you go on and commit crimes. So to me, the answer to your question is simply that it allowed the protagonist to be more complex than was traditional. And of course, these are crime movies. Nine out of 10 noir films are crime movies in which somebody’s going to actually break the law, and noir allows you to imagine valid reasons for doing that even though it’s not going to turn out well.

It leaves you rooting for them. I think everyone’s sad Fred MacMurray doesn’t get away with it at the end. When they basically remade the movie in the ‘80s, they did have the Barbara Stanwyck character getting away with it, which is probably the best ending.