Is it legal to play with hardbat in a regulat (non-hardbat) tournamnet? Has anyone tried this?

Yasaka Ma Lin Carbon

H3 NEO / 388-D1

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yes! francis, the french guy who play against joo (vid is on the forum i think) plays with one orthodox and one dr evil in french competition.

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I played a guy in Alaska that uses hardbat. He is rated 1800 or 1900. He told me his rating would not be close to that if he used double inverted. People do not get to play against it often enough to know how to beat him.

It is legal as long as the guy uses diff color rubbers - in hardbat you are allowed to have same colors but then that paddle would be illegal for regular tournaments.



I have myself watched U-2000 (regular, not hardbat) final at US Nationals 2008 where a very good hardbatter (Noel Huermann) played against Nguen Fong, and Fong had some serious difficulties there... started 2-0 then Noel equalized and the fifth went to 11-9.



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Say "no!" to expensive table tennis equipment. Please...

One of my toughest opponents in tournament play used a hardbat. Yes it's legal and can be difficult after playing many sponge players (you must change some strokes to allow for the incoming flat projectery). I enjoy occassionaly playing hardbat as it is fun and adds a new-old demension to the game.

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I wonder how harbatters practice though. Most players in a club would probably hate to play against hardbat as it screws up their sponge game.







Yasaka Ma Lin Carbon

H3 NEO / 388-D1

Also think, Jing Jialing, the 1989(?) wc. He was a PH player with pips out 0.5sponge. That was very close to being a HB. So jump at any chance to practise with a good HB player as you never know.



Edited by Tinykin_2 - 01/31/2011 at 1:28pm Like all things it depends. The top HB players usually chop quite a bit. So it's great practice. In fact many coaches will bring out their hardbat when they want to give their students practice against chop.

Member of Single Ply Club. Shakehand, Kauri wood by American Hinoki, 1-ply 7mm. FH> Gambler Reflectoid. BH> Yasaka Mark V

JimT wrote:



It is legal as long as the guy uses diff color rubbers - in hardbat you are allowed to have same colors but then that paddle would be illegal for regular tournaments.



I have myself watched U-2000 (regular, not hardbat) final at US Nationals 2008 where a very good hardbatter (Noel Huermann) played against Nguen Fong, and Fong had some serious difficulties there... started 2-0 then Noel equalized and the fifth went to 11-9.

Hardbat can have rubbers of the same color for use in regular tournament: http://www.hardbat.com/hardbat.html



Edited by jt99sf - 01/31/2011 at 1:51pm

Photino /TBS Black Tag: D05 (FH)/Attack 8 pips(BH)



林德成 HardBat:Hock 3-Ply /Dr Evil Photino /TBS Black Tag: D05 (FH)/Attack 8 pips(BH)林德成 HardBat:Hock 3-Ply /Dr Evil

no they cannot ittf rulled that one side must be black one red so for a sanctioned tournament both sides cannot be same colour.

patrick1v wrote:



no they cannot ittf rulled that one side must be black one red so for a sanctioned tournament both sides cannot be same colour.



In the U.S. yes, even in sanctioned tournaments... The USATT made a "2-color rule exemption" for hardbatters in all U.S. sanctioned tourneys.





In the U.S. yes, even in sanctioned tournaments... The USATT made a "2-color rule exemption" for hardbatters in all U.S. sanctioned tourneys.

I googled something that said premade hardbats are not legal. So I can't play with my 6-dollar hardbat?

Yasaka Ma Lin Carbon

H3 NEO / 388-D1

i guess that would be okay as in hard bat rules i just read cannot use different combination rubbers









Edited by pnachtwey - 01/31/2011 at 4:48pm Jay Turberville uses a hard bat in regular tournaments. He has a video on his YouTube channel of a game between him and a double inverted player. This should make one wonder about the importance of skill relative to equipment. Yes, the equipment does win out here but just barely. Jay is the taller player

addoydude wrote:



I googled something that said premade hardbats are not legal. So I can't play with my 6-dollar hardbat? Just put legal rubber on it and make sure that the blade is all wood. CHEERS! Just put legal rubber on it and make sure that the blade is all wood.

Hardbat: Valor Champion/FH/BH-Valor Premier-OX



Regular:Valor Big Stick FH-Apollo II & BH-Globe 979 OX





For use in sponge events the blade does not have to be all wood, only in official hardbat events does the blade have to be wood. You can also use non-approved hardbat rubber as long is it is ITTF approved. Example.... you could use a TBS with 802 ox rubber sheets of which, neither could be used in an official hardbat event. You can even use two different types of ox sheets like 802 on one side and 802-40 on the other, but then the two color rule would apply because of the two different rubbers.



everyone felt it was illegal but in the end it was approved and most of them lost I tourney that took place here in florida, some guy was on the top tables using a walmart paddle he bought for 3 dollars lol.

I am a total Newb. Come at me!

mon22 wrote:



I tourney that took place here in florida, some guy was on the top tables using a walmart paddle he bought for 3 dollars lol.

everyone felt it was illegal but in the end it was approved and most of them lost If it was a USATT sanctioned tournament the use of that paddle was completely illegal unless the rubbers were ITTF approved or on the hardbat list.



Edited by pongcrazy - 01/31/2011 at 9:34pm

mon22 wrote:



I tourney that took place here in florida, some guy was on the top tables using a walmart paddle he bought for 3 dollars lol.

everyone felt it was illegal but in the end it was approved and most of them lost

You talking about the Pensacola open? If so, I know the goober you speak of...pissed me off to, but that whole tournament is pretty much a joke as far as rules go. The individual who runs it doesn't care about rules and is scared to offend anyone and risk them not coming back. The dude in question wins a trophy every year and every year holds up his walmart blue racket proudly.







Edited by Jonan - 01/31/2011 at 9:44pm

short no spin serves to the FH and long fast topspin serves to the BH. that should work well against the pre-made paddles.

Photino /TBS Black Tag: D05 (FH)/Attack 8 pips(BH)



林德成 HardBat:Hock 3-Ply /Dr Evil Photino /TBS Black Tag: D05 (FH)/Attack 8 pips(BH)林德成 HardBat:Hock 3-Ply /Dr Evil

JimT wrote:



It is legal as long as the guy uses diff color rubbers - in hardbat you are allowed to have same colors but then that paddle would be illegal for regular tournaments.





With a few notable exceptions for U.S. events that operate under ITTF rules, that is not correct. The USATT operates under a two color waiver rule that allows the same color rubber so long as the racket complies with the USATT Hardbat Committee rules. It can even be purple rubber on both sides so long as the rubber is USATT Hardbat approved.



I generally suggest that people use a sheet of red and black in order to avoid confusion though. That's what I do. Far too many people are not aware of the applicable rules.



JimT wrote:





I have myself watched U-2000 (regular, not hardbat) final at US Nationals 2008 where a very good hardbatter (Noel Huermann) played against Nguen Fong, and Fong had some serious difficulties there... started 2-0 then Noel equalized and the fifth went to 11-9.





I finished third this year in the U-1900s at the U.S. Nationals playing hardbat. That's a field of over 200 players. I won the U-1900 at the Meiklejohn tournament playing hardbat. That's a four star event. I made it to the Quarter Finals of the Over 50s at the 2010 U.S. Open playing hardbat.



Hardbat is perfectly viable for the vast majority of USATT tournaments and events. We have full time hardbat players at around the 2200 level - and these are club players, not the kind of guys who typically get to practice 20-40 hours a week. I figure that a dedicated player who really worked hard should be able to play hardbat at around the 2500 level if he or she were to really put their mind to it and start at a young enough age - though I'm not sure if that would really make sense. If you are willing to put that much effort into it, you should probably be exploring the most effective combination of rubbers that works well for you.



BTW, Noel Huerman came in second in the Hardbat Open event at the 2010 U.S. Nationals. He's one of the best hardbat only players in the country with a current 2128 rating playing full time hardbat. If I had table tennis heros, he'd be one of them.







Edited by wturber - 02/01/2011 at 2:34am With a few notable exceptions for U.S. events that operate under ITTF rules, that is not correct. The USATT operates under a two color waiver rule that allows the same color rubber so long as the racket complies with the USATT Hardbat Committee rules. It can even be purple rubber on both sides so long as the rubber is USATT Hardbat approved.I generally suggest that people use a sheet of red and black in order to avoid confusion though. That's what I do. Far too many people are not aware of the applicable rules.I finished third this year in the U-1900s at the U.S. Nationals playing hardbat. That's a field of over 200 players. I won the U-1900 at the Meiklejohn tournament playing hardbat. That's a four star event. I made it to the Quarter Finals of the Over 50s at the 2010 U.S. Open playing hardbat.Hardbat is perfectly viable for the vast majority of USATT tournaments and events. We have full time hardbat players at around the 2200 level - and these are club players, not the kind of guys who typically get to practice 20-40 hours a week. I figure that a dedicated player who really worked hard should be able to play hardbat at around the 2500 level if he or she were to really put their mind to it and start at a young enough age - though I'm not sure if that would really make sense. If you are willing to put that much effort into it, you should probably be exploring the most effective combination of rubbers that works well for you.BTW, Noel Huerman came in second in the Hardbat Open event at the 2010 U.S. Nationals. He's one of the best hardbat only players in the country with a current 2128 rating playing full time hardbat. If I had table tennis heros, he'd be one of them.

Jay Turberville

www.jayandwanda.com

Hardbat: Gambler Zebra Classic w/ Dr. Evil

addoydude wrote:



I wonder how harbatters practice though. Most players in a club would probably hate to play against hardbat as it screws up their sponge game.







I've worked hard on developing spinny strokes for exactly that reason. But the regular field often has long pips, short pips and anti-spin. So hardbat isn't really all that tricky. And playing against hardbat can actually be very good practice for the sandwich rubber crowd. I think the better players recognize that. I don't have any problems finding practice partners. After all, the local fellows know that they may face me in a tournament. So they may as well practice against me.







Edited by wturber - 02/01/2011 at 2:26am I've worked hard on developing spinny strokes for exactly that reason. But the regular field often has long pips, short pips and anti-spin. So hardbat isn't really all that tricky. And playing against hardbat can actually be very good practice for the sandwich rubber crowd. I think the better players recognize that. I don't have any problems finding practice partners. After all, the local fellows know that they may face me in a tournament. So they may as well practice against me.

Jay Turberville

www.jayandwanda.com

Hardbat: Gambler Zebra Classic w/ Dr. Evil

pnachtwey wrote:



Jay Turberville uses a hard bat in regular tournaments. He has a video on his YouTube channel of a game between him and a double inverted player. This should make one wonder about the importance of skill relative to equipment. Yes, the equipment does win out here but just barely. Jay is the taller player

Well, I really don't generally think in terms of equipment winning in single matches. I think in terms of players winning and losing. Though I don't mind being labeled as a hardbatter and am fine with saying that a hardbatter won or lost. For instance, at the 2010 Meiklejohn tournament, hardbatters won both the U-1800 and U-1900 events.







Jay Turberville

www.jayandwanda.com

Hardbat: Gambler Zebra Classic w/ Dr. Evil

addoydude wrote:



I googled something that said premade hardbats are not legal. So I can't play with my 6-dollar hardbat?



In lower level tournaments the tournament director has discretion in allowing the use of a cheap premade hardbat in hardbat events. But in (I believe) 3 star and above tournaments you must have an all wood blade covered with legal rubber.



In no case are premade hardbats allowed in the non-hardbat events regardless of the star rating.

In lower level tournaments the tournament director has discretion in allowing the use of a cheap premade hardbat in hardbat events. But in (I believe) 3 star and above tournaments you must have an all wood blade covered with legal rubber.In no case are premade hardbats allowed in the non-hardbat events regardless of the star rating.

Jay Turberville

www.jayandwanda.com

Hardbat: Gambler Zebra Classic w/ Dr. Evil

He plays with a premade Sportscraft paddle but he is only allowed to used one side red and one side black for our tournaments and league. I have a really good hardbat guy at our club. He gives the Tenergy guys a fit along with everyone else.





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RJTT wrote:



I have a really good hardbat guy at our club. He gives the Tenergy guys a fit along with everyone else. He plays with a premade Sportscraft paddle but he is only allowed to used one side red and one side black for our tournaments and league.



Hardbats are exempt from 2-color rule if both sides are the same... Even at 5-star events like the Nationals.

Hardbats are exempt from 2-color rule if both sides are the same... Even at 5-star events like the Nationals.

roundrobin wrote:





Hardbats are exempt from 2-color rule if both sides are the same... Even at 5-star events like the Nationals.



I thought hard bats were only exempt from the two color rule in hard bat tournaments because there the two rubbers must be the same.



Jay Turberville is the one that knows.

I thought hard bats were only exempt from the two color rule in hard bat tournaments because there the two rubbers must be the same.Jay Turberville is the one that knows.

pnachtwey wrote:



roundrobin wrote:





Hardbats are exempt from 2-color rule if both sides are the same... Even at 5-star events like the Nationals.



I thought hard bats were only exempt from the two color rule in hard bat tournaments because there the two rubbers must be the same.



Jay Turberville is the one that knows.

Hardbats are exempt from 2-color rule if both sides are the same... Yes, but rubber has to be from USATT Hardbat approved list. Even at 5-star events like the Nationals. Yes and No. Yes at Nationals, No at US Open and Baltimore NATT Team Tournament. US Open and Baltimore Teams are ITTF international tournaments and all rubber must be ITTF approved. CHEERS! Yes, but rubber has to be from USATT Hardbat approved list.

Hardbat: Valor Champion/FH/BH-Valor Premier-OX



Regular:Valor Big Stick FH-Apollo II & BH-Globe 979 OX





mon22 wrote:



I tourney that took place here in florida, some guy was on the top tables using a walmart paddle he bought for 3 dollars lol.

everyone felt it was illegal but in the end it was approved and most of them lost Some of the premades are legal for hardbat competition but not all of them.. They are commonly allowed at hardbat competitions and the USATT says that anything that is legal in hardbat is legal at USATT events..

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mon22 wrote:



I tourney that took place here in florida, some guy was on the top tables using a walmart paddle he bought for 3 dollars lol.

everyone felt it was illegal but in the end it was approved and most of them lost What tournament was this?? I looked at the Pensacola Open player that someone mentioned but that player was in the "D" division which really is nowhere close to the top tables..

2010 Florida State Champion



Dr. Neubauer Firewall Plus Blade with DHS G666 1.5mm on forehand Giant Dragon Talon National Team OX on backhand

