Gotham Books

Through my research, I found that vulnerability is the glue that holds relationships together. It's the magic sauce. To navigate life with a partner, you have to be the person that he can come home to at the end of the day, the one that he feels comfortable revealing himself to. Without vulnerability there can be no love, trust, or intimacy.

You call yourself a shame researcher. How does shame tie into vulnerability for guys?

Shame is the most powerful, master emotion. It's the fear that we're not good enough. For men, it's the fear of not being wealthy enough, tough enough, or smart enough. The number one shame trigger for men is being perceived as weak. Men walk this tightrope where any sign of weakness illicits shame, and so they're afraid to make themselves vulnerable for fear of looking weak. But if you can't be vulnerable, then you can't truly grow and be your best self. Women can either embrace and help men walk across the tightrope, or we can be the ones who push them off.

In the book, you define shame resiliency as the ability to practice authenticity when we experience shame, to move through the experience without sacrificing our values, and to come to the other side with more connection. Why is reaching out and talking about shame so important for overcoming it?

Shame can't survive being spoken. It just dies on the vine. The anecdote to shame is empathy. Can he talk to you about the tough stuff? Vulnerability is not weakness — it's courage. The best marriages are the ones where we can go out in the world and really put ourselves out there. A lot of times we'll fail, and sometimes we'll pull it off. But good marriages are when you can go home and know that your vulnerability will be honored as courage, and that you'll find support.

Why do you think many guys struggle with fully opening up?

I think there is still some Barbie and John Wayne stuff lingering in all of us. The story I tell that gets the biggest reaction from the guys in my audiences is when a man approached me after a lecture I gave on shame to say, "My wife and daughters…they'd rather see me die on top of my white horse than watch me fall off. You say you want us to be vulnerable and real, but c'mon. You can't stand it. It makes you sick to see us like that."

Men are smart. They hear us asking for their vulnerability, but are also very aware that we may act scared or resentful when they show their vulnerable side. You wouldn't believe how often men tell me, "I pretend to be vulnerable, but I keep in under control," or "I give her enough to believe I'm being open because if I were totally truthful about how afraid or out of control I feel, she would judge me." Underneath the pretending lies hurt, disappointment, and shame.

What are some tips for helping our partners become more vulnerable? How can we listen with an open heart and an open mind?

It's important to encourage your partner to be vulnerable, and then to respond with respect and gratitude when he does. What every single one of us wants to hear in a relationship is, "I see you, I see all of you, and I love you." My husband and I did not come from families where vulnerability was well tolerated. But we remind each other that we love one another not despite our imperfections, but because of them. If I got a bad review on Amazon, I used to try to hide it because I wanted my husband to think I was perfect. Now, he's the first person I show. He says, "I think you're really brave for putting yourself out there, and I love you."

Why do you say that we can only love others as much as we love ourselves?

Man, I hated this part of the research. I wanted to believe that I could love my kids more than I loved myself. But all the research finds that we really can't offer people more compassion than we have for ourselves. I think it's because, in order for us to tolerate imperfection and vulnerability in other people, we have to be able to accept what is imperfect in ourselves. If there are prerequisites for worthiness that we carry either knowingly or unknowingly within us, then we apply them to ourselves as well as other people.

How does this affect our relationships?

Let's say you grew up hearing from our parents that one of your prerequisites for love and belonging is being approved of and accepted by others. If your husband has this risky idea he wants to present at work, you may be more likely to say, "Don't make your boss mad," or "If your really boss wanted your opinion, she would have asked." These are the comments that are flung around every day, and they erode relationships. If you come from a place of love and have learned to encourage vulnerability, you might instead say, "It takes total courage to speak up. Go for it. I got your back 100 percent."

So how can we learn to be more vulnerable ourselves?

We have to be clear about what our values are. I wake up every morning and before I even sit up, I think about how I want to be a courageous person. If we are standing solidly in our values, we don't get knocked down even when we're getting knocked around. The bottom line is that our capacity to be whole-hearted can never be greater than our willingness to be broken-hearted. It's okay if you get crushed sometimes, because you'll be growing and will be getting closer to the place where you want to be. The outcome of a life spent performing, pleasing, and perfecting is resentment, grief, judgement, and anger. Being vulnerable is about saying "I love you" first, risking heartbreak, and being all in.

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