mizerable

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Member Back to Top Post by mizerable on I know this will turn into a discussion about how much of a monster Bob Kane was, but I honestly think he gets way too much of a bad rep.



Bob did indeed have the concept for "a Batman", which Finger in turn fleshed out. Keep in mind, Finger was working at a shoe store at the time and making far less money before Bob offered him a job.



Also remember what happened to the two that created Superman, they were screwed out of the rights. Since Kane didn't want the same thing to happen to Batman, he rightfully developed a better contract.



People will probably ask why he didn't include Finger, we'll keep in mind that Kane oversaw all the aspects of Batman and approved of them, so even if he wasn't developing the character, he was working hard to market him. Kane was able to showcase the character in a way that was not possible in just the writing. A lot of good superheroes were created, smartly written and a lot of times died a quick death.



So while his initial ideas of Batman sucked, let's not undermine how successful Bob Kane was at marketing the character. He wasn't some figurehead who did nothing, in terms of his creation he's more in line with a Vince McMahon or Walt Disney; someone who is ambitious and has the ability to market an idea to a new audience as something original, with the help of some talented people.



Kane and Finger were friends for most of their lives. Finger did not handle his own finances and had alcohol problems. By no means was he just making pauper wages to survive and it's too bad he died so early in life as Kane did speak very highly of him and did give him much of the credit of helping shape Batman.

CMFeyr

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Member Back to Top Post by CMFeyr on mizerable said:



Bob did indeed have the concept for "a Batman", which Finger in turn fleshed out. Keep in mind, Finger was working at a shoe store at the time and making far less money before Bob offered him a job.



Also remember what happened to the two that created Superman, they were screwed out of the rights. Since Kane didn't want the same thing to happen to Batman, he rightfully developed a better contract.



People will probably ask why he didn't include Finger, we'll keep in mind that Kane oversaw all the aspects of Batman and approved of them, so even if he wasn't developing the character, he was working hard to market him. Kane was able to showcase the character in a way that was not possible in just the writing. A lot of good superheroes were created, smartly written and a lot of times died a quick death.



So while his initial ideas of Batman sucked, let's not undermine how successful Bob Kane was at marketing the character. He wasn't some figurehead who did nothing, in terms of his creation he's more in line with a Vince McMahon or Walt Disney; someone who is ambitious and has the ability to market an idea to a new audience as something original, with the help of some talented people.



Kane and Finger were friends for most of their lives. Finger did not handle his own finances and had alcohol problems. By no means was he just making pauper wages to survive and it's too bad he died so early in life as Kane did speak very highly of him and did give him much of the credit of helping shape Batman. I know this will turn into a discussion about how much of a monster Bob Kane was, but I honestly think he gets way too much of a bad rep.Bob did indeed have the concept for "a Batman", which Finger in turn fleshed out. Keep in mind, Finger was working at a shoe store at the time and making far less money before Bob offered him a job.Also remember what happened to the two that created Superman, they were screwed out of the rights. Since Kane didn't want the same thing to happen to Batman, he rightfully developed a better contract.People will probably ask why he didn't include Finger, we'll keep in mind that Kane oversaw all the aspects of Batman and approved of them, so even if he wasn't developing the character, he was working hard to market him. Kane was able to showcase the character in a way that was not possible in just the writing. A lot of good superheroes were created, smartly written and a lot of times died a quick death.So while his initial ideas of Batman sucked, let's not undermine how successful Bob Kane was at marketing the character. He wasn't some figurehead who did nothing, in terms of his creation he's more in line with a Vince McMahon or Walt Disney; someone who is ambitious and has the ability to market an idea to a new audience as something original, with the help of some talented people.Kane and Finger were friends for most of their lives. Finger did not handle his own finances and had alcohol problems. By no means was he just making pauper wages to survive and it's too bad he died so early in life as Kane did speak very highly of him and did give him much of the credit of helping shape Batman.



I will disagree on Siegel and Shuster, they were not screwed. They played the system by the rules, did very well for awhile, then got left behind by the system.



Kane worked the system for himself, did very well, and he was basically the system to his studio (Finger and the artists who ghosted for him).

I will disagree on Siegel and Shuster, they were not screwed. They played the system by the rules, did very well for awhile, then got left behind by the system.Kane worked the system for himself, did very well, and he was basically the system to his studio (Finger and the artists who ghosted for him).

BorneAgain

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Member Back to Top Post by BorneAgain on I'm of mixed opinion on Bob Kane. While I think any downplaying of credit he did later in life was a very dick move considering he was well off financially and well known in popular culture, his actions at the times of Batman's creation were not wholly unusual within the business at that point.



Honestly whatever shenanigans that go on in comics now don't compare to how ruthless companies and publishing houses were prior to the modern notion of proper credit and royalties to creators. Bill Finger's notable because of how big Batman became, but chances are the industry is littered with countless other artists and writers who got screwed over because work for hire money was the norm.

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Member Back to Top Post by CMFeyr on BorneAgain said:



Honestly whatever shenanigans that go on in comics now don't compare to how ruthless companies and publishing houses were prior to the modern notion of proper credit and royalties to creators. Bill Finger's notable because of how big Batman became, but chances are the industry is littered with countless other artists and writers who got screwed over because work for hire money was the norm. I'm of mixed opinion on Bob Kane. While I think any downplaying of credit he did later in life was a very dick move considering he was well off financially and well known in popular culture, his actions at the times of Batman's creation were not wholly unusual within the business at that point.Honestly whatever shenanigans that go on in comics now don't compare to how ruthless companies and publishing houses were prior to the modern notion of proper credit and royalties to creators. Bill Finger's notable because of how big Batman became, but chances are the industry is littered with countless other artists and writers who got screwed over because work for hire money was the norm.



Yeah, but you have a lot of those creators who when they ran their own studios or even companies engaged in those same practices. Jack Kirby himself kept artwork, ownership of characters, etc. when he ran his own company.

Yeah, but you have a lot of those creators who when they ran their own studios or even companies engaged in those same practices. Jack Kirby himself kept artwork, ownership of characters, etc. when he ran his own company.

knapp

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Member Back to Top Post by knapp on mizerable said: Kane and Finger were friends for most of their lives. Finger did not handle his own finances and had alcohol problems. By no means was he just making pauper wages to survive and it's too bad he died so early in life as Kane did speak very highly of him and did give him much of the credit of helping shape Batman.



He did speak well of him, in later years included, even so far as to say if he could go back and give him the credit during his lifetime he would.



.....however when it came time in 1989 to put Finger's name on the Tim Burton Batman movie, Kane was asked -- and said no.



.............after all that: he still said no.



I think that was the Bob Kane, I'm afraid.



paulbearer said: Did Robinson create Joker or not ?



Robinson illustrated the original story and (Kane admitted this part, too) provided the trading card whose image led to the Joker.



The other part of the Joker's origin was the visual of Conrad Veidt (The Man Who Laughs), who was the inspiration for the likeness - Kane says "he and Bill" made the Veidt/card connection, while Robinson lends more weight to Finger for (a) actually saying "Hey that joker card looks like Conrad Veidt" and (b) then coming up with the particulars of the character from that point. He did speak well of him, in later years included, even so far as to say if he could go back and give him the credit during his lifetime he would......however when it came time in 1989 to put Finger's name on the Tim Burton Batman movie, Kane was asked -- and said no..............after all that: he still said no.I thinkwas the Bob Kane, I'm afraid.Robinson illustrated the original story and (Kane admitted this part, too) provided the trading card whose image led to the Joker.The other part of the Joker's origin was the visual of Conrad Veidt (The Man Who Laughs), who was the inspiration for the likeness - Kane says "he and Bill" made the Veidt/card connection, while Robinson lends more weight to Finger for (a) actually saying "Hey that joker card looks like Conrad Veidt" and (b) then coming up with the particulars of the character from that point.

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Member Back to Top Post by Bub Hates Bullies on Glad this is story is getting out more and more these days. Bob Kane was so scummy about his credit for Batman. He acted as if he'd somehow be a lesser person if he had to share credit with others, so he went to painstaking lengths to ensure that every record would show that he was the sole creator of Batman and everything in the Batman universe. His ghost artist thing was such a joke, too.



Speaking of that, one of my favorite Bob Kane stories involves a young Todd McFarlane refusing to let Kane sign his signature on a Batman illustration Todd had done.