On Monday’s edition of MSNBC’s “Deadline: White House,” anchor Nicolle Wallace discussed the self-destruction of President Donald Trump’s attorney Rudy Giuliani with former Republican strategist Steve Schmidt.

“Who’s Rudy in all this?” asked Wallace.

“It’s just extraordinary to consider that Rudy Giuliani was a legitimate, certified national hero,” said Schmidt. “He was respected by nearly the entirety of the country for dazzling leadership in the days after 9/11, and to watch his fall, his devolution, is just tragic. I mean, you talk about the reality that we live in this era where trust has collapsed in public institutions. I mean, here is someone, one of the few people that was pretty broadly admired in the country, and just threw it all away in defense of God knows what.”

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“Well, we’ll talk about this I think over and over again, but they all are being taken down by the fake news they’ve pedaled,” said Wallace. “I mean Rudy was just Patient Zero.”

“Yeah. For sure,” said Schmidt. “And look, an abuse of power is exactly right. I mean, Nancy Pelosi is smart to understand that the Trump fog machine, the chaos, the speed of the lying, that she has to slow the game down. Has to make it slower. Understandable abuse of power. If you could do that to the Bidens, you could do that to anyone in this country and no one wants to live in that country.”

Watch below: