niukasu1990 Profile Joined July 2012 588 Posts Last Edited: 2015-03-18 10:58:02 March 17 2015 10:08 GMT #1 https://www.facebook.com/fluidwindlol/posts/747339475363906



Honestly, I am speechless about the strange comment in recent tournament. For example, the second game vs TSM was called bronze level BP. But if we first picked Zed, they could pick Lulu and Corki immediately. Then we had to pick a full AD comp. Of course, everyone can just trash talk and does not need to take any responsibility. I can understand it.



From the beginning of being analyst, one thing I have learnt is that the people who has real ability and can coach the team properly are not recognized by the public. But the quacks are believed by many people. Aaron from EDG, Charlie from C9, current management of SK even Reginald, Do you really know them? No. Most of the people would rather believe what Joker(caster) said than see the interviews from people who coach the team properly.



People only believed what they wanted to believed. This was my teacher told me in the past, and it is very true.



Advancing to semi in IEM, honestly, Our team can really perform well in 1.5 strategies. It is not unfair for us to lose. Maybe we have a chance to win, maybe we can perform better. However, that is something happens next. Next time, we will try out best to fix our weakness, including strategies, team comp, even laning. This only prove that our region LMS is still relevant, and we have a lot of space to work hard to improve.



First game vs SK our BP was really fking bad, but it seemed that nobody cared. Maybe nobody found it out. I don't know. Honestly, I am speechless about the strange comment in recent tournament. For example, the second game vs TSM was called bronze level BP. But if we first picked Zed, they could pick Lulu and Corki immediately. Then we had to pick a full AD comp. Of course, everyone can just trash talk and does not need to take any responsibility. I can understand it.From the beginning of being analyst, one thing I have learnt is that the people who has real ability and can coach the team properly are not recognized by the public. But the quacks are believed by many people. Aaron from EDG, Charlie from C9, current management of SK even Reginald, Do you really know them? No. Most of the people would rather believe what Joker(caster) said than see the interviews from people who coach the team properly.People only believed what they wanted to believed. This was my teacher told me in the past, and it is very true.Advancing to semi in IEM, honestly, Our team can really perform well in 1.5 strategies. It is not unfair for us to lose. Maybe we have a chance to win, maybe we can perform better. However, that is something happens next. Next time, we will try out best to fix our weakness, including strategies, team comp, even laning. This only prove that our region LMS is still relevant, and we have a lot of space to work hard to improve.First game vs SK our BP was really fking bad, but it seemed that nobody cared. Maybe nobody found it out. I don't know.

ShootAnonymous Profile Joined May 2014 947 Posts Last Edited: 2015-03-17 10:58:42 March 17 2015 10:42 GMT #3 *winces*

yoeFW is ridiculously unpopular; they have quite the number of anti-fans for a team that's not even popular/known. (Unlike TSM, who has at least a comparable fanbase vs anti-fanbase and is pretty darn famous in the League community worldwide) I can't say I'm surprised that they're getting criticised.



Have to side-eye his point about not knowing analysts/coaches though. Or maybe it's just a TW fan thing, because all the names he listed, imo they're pretty lauded by a sizeable portion of the community. (Helps that public figures in english-speaking community like Thoorin, Monte, Clement, China talk ppl bring up these behind-the-scenes individuals pretty frequently too) TW fans might not have as easy access to analyst/coach interviews, and particularly not if they're not translated. (yes Taiwanese are bilingual, pretty sure English is included in their cirriculum and you have people like Steak or Mistake, but a good portion are not particularly fluent in English. At least from what I observe from TW pro players and from TW forums?)



edit: thanks for sharing this niukasu! :D RIP DotA Kings | BurNIng : Mushi : iceiceice : LaNm : MMY!

ravenhunter42 Profile Joined January 2015 27 Posts Last Edited: 2015-03-17 23:54:06 March 17 2015 23:53 GMT #8 If you have seen the taiwanese forums, they have really high expectations for their teams (they think their top teams are equal or slightly better than the top lcs teams), for example I'd say about 70% of fans expected tpa to advance in their group stage over tsm, and I saw a picture where all lms casters predicted yoe to beat sk at this iem. Also, yoe is not a fan favorite and beat tpa the fan favorite to go to iem, so they got a lot of haters lol.

oneofthem Profile Joined November 2005 Cayman Islands 6380 Posts March 17 2015 23:58 GMT #9 i saw this same team get demolished by fans after their exit from s3 worlds. like they were seriously expecting gamabears to do well against s3 skt.

We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love

Rach Profile Joined January 2015 United States 103 Posts March 18 2015 00:03 GMT #10 It's heart breaking to see such nice guys get shit on by their community. They literally can't win no matter what they do. I was able to talk to their manager and NL & Karsa and all they wanted to do was prove themselves to the fans. All they wanted to do was prove themselves to Taiwan, represent their region and make them proud.



And then they get this shit.

KissBlade Profile Joined October 2004 United States 2305 Posts March 18 2015 00:25 GMT #11 At the same time though, Aaron gets a TON of hate and still just does his job without pandering back to these standard netizen responses. (at least supposedly). That's what makes me respect Aaron as a coach cause he just puts up numbers. I think this analyst has the right to feel offended about the hate but he's got to learn not to let it get to his head since it's just part of the industry.

LightningStrike Profile Joined February 2011 United States 4598 Posts March 18 2015 01:00 GMT #12 Isn't the majority of the roster from the Gama Bears Season 3 Worlds roster? Also that's horrible the way the fans are treating them I hope they look up as they got a bright future! May the next light shine/Former #1 Alliance LoL fan/ Current Teamliquid LoL Fan

oneofthem Profile Joined November 2005 Cayman Islands 6380 Posts March 18 2015 03:20 GMT #13 On March 18 2015 10:00 LightningStrike wrote:

Isn't the majority of the roster from the Gama Bears Season 3 Worlds roster? Also that's horrible the way the fans are treating them I hope they look up as they got a bright future!

yes. back in s3 they also beat the popular tpa to go to worlds.



taiwan's response to one of their better teams is honestly very strange and sad. s2 isn't coming back. yes. back in s3 they also beat the popular tpa to go to worlds.taiwan's response to one of their better teams is honestly very strange and sad. s2 isn't coming back. We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love

scrubtastic Profile Joined May 2009 301 Posts Last Edited: 2015-03-18 04:48:51 March 18 2015 04:48 GMT #14 sorry I don't follow this region at all



but has yoeFW done anything that might get people to express all this hatred?

Like, are they super toxic in soloq or do they trash talk everyone etc



thanks for the translation

tonka737 Profile Joined May 2010 United States 8 Posts March 18 2015 05:38 GMT #15 Legendary Moonlight Sculptor will always be relevant.

Gahlo Profile Joined February 2010 United States 22493 Posts March 18 2015 06:08 GMT #16 On March 17 2015 19:29 739 wrote:

Actually TSM is a bad example, as everyone knows Reginald and their current coach Locodoco ^_^

People know who Reginald is, but I doubt many people in the community have actually taken the time to get to know who he is and prefer to make of their mind solely on the Twitter battle he and Thorin had, and an episode of gamecribs where he made Xpecial cry. People know who Reginald is, but I doubt many people in the community have actually taken the time to get to know who he is and prefer to make of their mind solely on the Twitter battle he and Thorin had, and an episode of gamecribs where he made Xpecial cry.

Fusilero Profile Joined July 2011 United Kingdom 19397 Posts March 18 2015 07:19 GMT #17 On March 18 2015 12:20 oneofthem wrote:

Show nested quote +

On March 18 2015 10:00 LightningStrike wrote:

Isn't the majority of the roster from the Gama Bears Season 3 Worlds roster? Also that's horrible the way the fans are treating them I hope they look up as they got a bright future!

yes. back in s3 they also beat the popular tpa to go to worlds.



taiwan's response to one of their better teams is honestly very strange and sad. s2 isn't coming back. yes. back in s3 they also beat the popular tpa to go to worlds.taiwan's response to one of their better teams is honestly very strange and sad. s2 isn't coming back.

I remember the crowd at the S3 qualifiers for Taiwan during TPS vs Bears were getting hyped as fuck whenever something went well for TPS and went silent when bears did well. The award ceremony for the bears was depressingly silent :<



Fk the haters Maple is by far the best mid and Taiwan he don't need no shit talk to change that. I remember the crowd at the S3 qualifiers for Taiwan during TPS vs Bears were getting hyped as fuck whenever something went well for TPS and went silent when bears did well. The award ceremony for the bears was depressingly silent : Writer Glorious SEA doto

ShootAnonymous Profile Joined May 2014 947 Posts Last Edited: 2015-03-18 08:49:57 March 18 2015 08:39 GMT #18 On March 18 2015 13:48 scrubtastic wrote:

sorry I don't follow this region at all



but has yoeFW done anything that might get people to express all this hatred?

Like, are they super toxic in soloq or do they trash talk everyone etc



thanks for the translation

On March 18 2015 03:14 Ansibled wrote:

Is YoeFW unpopular on the grounds that they're not TPA or is there another reason?



Not going to cast judgement about their soloq toxicity levels in lieu of overwhelming evidence. (I've seen threads on PTT, but I'm of the opinion that if one looks hard enough, and every player can be construed to appear toxic)



imo the major reasons why GamaBears/YoeFW was/is unpopular are tied to the way the TW scene is.



1. YoeFW is a new team

In comparison to old names like TPA/S, AHQ. Out of the four big names currently in LMS, yoeFW is the least established. In League terms TPA as a brand is ancient, AHQ almost as much. HKE might be a new team, but they have Toyz and Stanley; 'nuff said. YoeFW is really young in comparison, and as a result, their fanbase is practically nascent in comparison to TPA/AHQ/HKE's.



2. TW/SEA has limited slots to go to any international competition.

Case in point: IEM. S4 was an outlier in that TW managed to get 2 slots. Normally for international competitions TW only gets one slot, SEA the other; sometimes TW & SEA shared 1 slot. Thus fierce competition, and essentially yoeFW was seen as being cockblockers of -insert favourite TW team of choice here-



3. Previously poor international results

Whelp, S3 worlds had a terrible format, and GammaBears had a terrible bracket. Hi S3WC! Bye S3WC!

Keep in mind that TPA won the previous world championship. Think from TW's pov; from world champions to being knocked out after their first Bo3. Yeah, the backlash was really bad back then, and still lingers to this day.



4. Inconsistent performance/Reputation

Say what you will about the Taipei chokers, but they consistently finish top3 in their domestic league. Invariably nets them fans through the course of each season, I would think. YoeFW on the other hand... (*pops over to gamepedia to doublecheck*) prior to this season they did pretty meh in regular season. This only further reinforces their cockblocker reputation.



Their other reputation is: YoeFW are good domestically, poor internationally (and that TPA would perform better internationally) -- this was stated by Klement Chu when he guested on summoning insight. (Personally disagree; Taipei Chokers will be Taipei Chokers, chokers gonna choke)



TL;DR Competition to go to international competitions is cutthroat in TW, and YoeFW/GamaniaBears are cockblockers, fans will be fans.





Things will probably get better for yoeFW, now that they've actually picked up wins in an international competition. Plus with the way AHQ continues to tumble downhill most of the heat will be on AHQ and not yoeFW. Until the next qualifier-for-an-international-competition(MSI?).





Disclaimer: I'm not taiwanese, and I don't live in Taiwan. I just like to watch the TW broadcast and I occasionally browse PTT. Not going to cast judgement about their soloq toxicity levels in lieu of overwhelming evidence. (I've seen threads on PTT, but I'm of the opinion that if one looks hard enough, and every player can be construed to appear toxic)imo the major reasons why GamaBears/YoeFW was/is unpopular are tied to the way the TW scene is.In comparison to old names like TPA/S, AHQ. Out of the four big names currently in LMS, yoeFW is the least established. In League terms TPA as a brand is ancient, AHQ almost as much. HKE might be a new team, but they have Toyz and Stanley; 'nuff said. YoeFW is really young in comparison, and as a result, their fanbase is practically nascent in comparison to TPA/AHQ/HKE's.Case in point: IEM. S4 was an outlier in that TW managed to get 2 slots. Normally for international competitions TW only gets one slot, SEA the other; sometimes TW & SEA shared 1 slot. Thus fierce competition, and essentially yoeFW was seen as being cockblockers of -insert favourite TW team of choice here-Whelp, S3 worlds had a terrible format, and GammaBears had a terrible bracket. Hi S3WC! Bye S3WC!Keep in mind that TPA won the previous world championship. Think from TW's pov; from world champions to being knocked out after their first Bo3. Yeah, the backlash was really bad back then, and still lingers to this day.Say what you will about the Taipei chokers, but they consistently finish top3 in their domestic league. Invariably nets them fans through the course of each season, I would think. YoeFW on the other hand... (*pops over to gamepedia to doublecheck*) prior to this season they did pretty meh in regular season. This only further reinforces their cockblocker reputation.Their other reputation is: YoeFW are good domestically, poor internationally (and that TPA would perform better internationally) -- this was stated by Klement Chu when he guested on summoning insight.Things will probably get better for yoeFW, now that they've actually picked up wins in an international competition. Plus with the way AHQ continues to tumble downhill most of the heat will be on AHQ and not yoeFW. Until the next qualifier-for-an-international-competition(MSI?). RIP DotA Kings | BurNIng : Mushi : iceiceice : LaNm : MMY!

niukasu1990 Profile Joined July 2012 588 Posts March 18 2015 11:28 GMT #19 On March 18 2015 09:25 KissBlade wrote:

At the same time though, Aaron gets a TON of hate and still just does his job without pandering back to these standard netizen responses. (at least supposedly). That's what makes me respect Aaron as a coach cause he just puts up numbers. I think this analyst has the right to feel offended about the hate but he's got to learn not to let it get to his head since it's just part of the industry.



What amazed me most is that even the players(clearlove, deft etc.) know the dead sister shit Aaron has done in the past, they still believe in him. What amazed me most is that even the players(clearlove, deft etc.) know the dead sister shit Aaron has done in the past, they still believe in him.

Faeny Profile Joined January 2015 644 Posts March 18 2015 12:05 GMT #20 On March 18 2015 20:28 niukasu1990 wrote:

What amazed me most is that even the players(clearlove, deft etc.) know the dead sister shit Aaron has done in the past, they still believe in him.

Uh, what are you referring to? Uh, what are you referring to? SKT hwaiting! RIP TL, TiP

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