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He then quoted a sentiment that he said he has heard expressed repeatedly: “But to be a Catholic like that, it’s better to be an atheist.”

Francis has surprised Catholics before with his warmth toward atheists. He remarked soon after becoming pope that even atheists can go to heaven thanks to the redemption of Jesus. He granted an interview to an atheist journalist, and told the reporter that efforts to convert people to Christianity are “solemn nonsense” and each person “must choose to follow the good and fight evil as he conceives them.”

He has also been friendly toward Jews, particularly through his longtime friend, Argentine Rabbi Abraham Skorka. On Thursday, Skorka led a group of rabbis to the Vatican, where they gave Francis a new edition of the Torah.

Looking at the text of the five books of Moses, the most holy books for Jews as well as a key part of the Christian Old Testament, Francis called the Torah “the Lord’s gift, his revelation, his word,” according to the Vatican’s text of his remarks.

He said that the Torah “manifests the paternal and visceral love of God, a love shown in words and concrete gestures, a love that becomes covenant.”

The Vatican has been open about trying to move beyond its anti-Semitic past for many years; Pope John Paul II spoke in a synagogue, visited concentration camps and officially apologized for the church’s lack of action during the Holocaust. On Thursday, Francis described dialogue between Christians and Jews today as “ongoing and collaborative.”