mishimaBeef Profile Blog Joined January 2010 Canada 2256 Posts Last Edited: 2014-11-04 00:52:34 #1 Important opportunity cost analysis:

+ Show Spoiler + My view of the opportunity cost.



1. Assume that removing health bars improves casual viewership.



Implement second stream. Cost: - Having second stream. Opportunity cost: Nothing, since the alternative is not to implement second stream.



Do not implement second stream. Cost - Nothing. Opportunity cost: loss of casual viewership.



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2. Assume that removing health bars does not improve casual viewership



Implement second stream. Cost: - Having second stream. Opportunity cost: Nothing, since the alternative is not to implement second stream.



Do not implement second stream. Cost - Nothing. Opportunity cost: Nothing.



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Now lets look at that from a Game Theory perspective.



We risk the cost of a second stream (a small cost, no?) in hopes of benefiting with a larger viewer base.





I would like to postulate that the current observer setup hurts casual viewership. I have found this to be a debated topic and would like to get the ball rolling on this discussion.



Proleague rarely uses health bars nowadays in SC2. I like that. Starcraft BW had no health bars and it was great to watch. By watching the battles, and even clicking on the units, people knew where the weaknesses were. Now we are cluttered, with lots of unnecessary information blocking the beautiful art. Look at Polt vs Classic in WCS 2014 Ro16. Disgusting amount of clutter.



If you google "starcraft 2" images you have to scroll down quite a bit to find any health bars. Motivated planning or coincidence?



I would like to postulate that the current observer setup hurts casual viewership. I have found this to be a debated topic and would like to get the ball rolling on this discussion.Proleague rarely uses health bars nowadays in SC2. I like that. Starcraft BW had no health bars and it was great to watch. By watching the battles, and even clicking on the units, people knew where the weaknesses were. Now we are cluttered, with lots of unnecessary information blocking the beautiful art. Look at Polt vs Classic in WCS 2014 Ro16. Disgusting amount of clutter.If you google "starcraft 2" images you have to scroll down quite a bit to find any health bars. Motivated planning or coincidence? Dare to live the life you have dreamed for yourself. Go forward and make your dreams come true. - Ralph Waldo Emerson

EJK Profile Blog Joined September 2013 United States 1285 Posts #2 it might not hurt casual viewership without healthbars, but no health bars KILLS most of the non-casual viewership Sc2 Terran Coach, top 16GM NA - interested in coaching? Message me on teamliquid!

Greenei Profile Joined November 2011 Germany 1749 Posts #3 I like knowing what's going on, so I like healthbars. IMBA IMBA IMBA IMBA IMBA IMBA

MCXD Profile Blog Joined February 2012 Australia 2732 Posts #4 And so the great health bar debate begins again.

[PkF] Wire Profile Joined March 2013 France 22019 Posts #5 Health bars are needed if you want to follow the game even remotely seriously and understand any micro that is taking place. Since SCII community has a big core of really dedicated fans I feel removing health bars would be a really bad move.

mishimaBeef Profile Blog Joined January 2010 Canada 2256 Posts Last Edited: 2014-11-03 23:33:20 #6 I don't see it as being overly difficult to implement a non-health bar stream in addition to a health bar one. I for one used to be a "non-casual" viewer as I used to play the game regularly. Now I consider myself a casual viewer. To me, health bars ruin the enjoyment of the matches.



Please consider the opportunity available in implementing something simple to potentially tap into a larger market. Dare to live the life you have dreamed for yourself. Go forward and make your dreams come true. - Ralph Waldo Emerson

DinoMight Profile Blog Joined June 2012 United States 3331 Posts Last Edited: 2014-11-03 23:31:03 #7 I think it depends on what's going on. A good observer will turn them on when it's relevant (Blink allin) and turn them off when it's just taking up screen space (max vs max battle).



Isn't there also an option for health bars on damaged units only? That's ideal for streaming I believe.



I find it exciting when MMA micros back a reaper with 1 HP left at the perfect time, for example. "Wtf I come back and find myself in camp DinoMight all of a sudden, feels weird man." -Wombat_NI

mishimaBeef Profile Blog Joined January 2010 Canada 2256 Posts #8 Example of responsible health bar usage: Proleague highlighted 3 colossus in an important midgame battle in TvP. Great! These are critical units. Dare to live the life you have dreamed for yourself. Go forward and make your dreams come true. - Ralph Waldo Emerson

mishimaBeef Profile Blog Joined January 2010 Canada 2256 Posts #9 On November 04 2014 08:30 DinoMight wrote:

Isn't there also an option for health bars on damaged units only? That's ideal for streaming I believe.



This option is pretty much no different as most units are damaged after the early game. Look at Polt vs Classic in WCS 2014 Ro16. Disgusting amount of clutter.

This option is pretty much no different as most units are damaged after the early game. Look at Polt vs Classic in WCS 2014 Ro16. Disgusting amount of clutter. Dare to live the life you have dreamed for yourself. Go forward and make your dreams come true. - Ralph Waldo Emerson

mishimaBeef Profile Blog Joined January 2010 Canada 2256 Posts #10 Let's consider for a second the relative size of each group: casual and non-casual. Then let us consider the probablity that this change (2nd stream with no health bars for casual viewers to enjoy the battles and the art) would bring about an increase in viewership. Let's throw out some ballpark figures. Anyone want to start? Dare to live the life you have dreamed for yourself. Go forward and make your dreams come true. - Ralph Waldo Emerson

SC2Toastie Profile Blog Joined October 2013 Netherlands 5721 Posts #11 Interesting how many of these problems like observer interface, clutter on the screen and other preferential settings could be changed by designing some client based viewer option.... Mura Ma Man, Dark Da Dude, Super Shot Sos!

mishimaBeef Profile Blog Joined January 2010 Canada 2256 Posts #12 On November 04 2014 08:37 SC2Toastie wrote:

Interesting how many of these problems like observer interface, clutter on the screen and other preferential settings could be changed by designing some client based viewer option....



Thinking outside the box, very nice. Thinking outside the box, very nice. Dare to live the life you have dreamed for yourself. Go forward and make your dreams come true. - Ralph Waldo Emerson

mishimaBeef Profile Blog Joined January 2010 Canada 2256 Posts #13 Also I feel a lot of people simply look at what the art represents and do not enjoy the art.



You don't sit there and enjoy the attack animations of your units, you are busy micro'ing and doing a million other things. Dare to live the life you have dreamed for yourself. Go forward and make your dreams come true. - Ralph Waldo Emerson

avilo Profile Blog Joined November 2007 United States 4099 Posts #14 On November 04 2014 08:24 MCXD wrote:

And so the great health bar debate begins again.



The greatest of debates of this century. The greatest of debates of this century. Sup

bo1b Profile Blog Joined August 2012 Australia 12625 Posts #15 Catering to the casual base has, in my opinion, done nothing but hurt the scene. I have just about run out of fucks to give regarding casual viewer base of a game they'll (for the most part anyway) watch a few times then jump ship to the next bandwagon.

Makro Profile Joined March 2011 France 16496 Posts #16 On November 04 2014 08:30 DinoMight wrote:

I think it depends on what's going on. A good observer will turn them on when it's relevant (Blink allin) and turn them off when it's just taking up screen space (max vs max battle).



Isn't there also an option for health bars on damaged units only? That's ideal for streaming I believe.



I find it exciting when MMA micros back a reaper with 1 HP left at the perfect time, for example.

This.



A compromise is the best solution. This.A compromise is the best solution. Matthew 5:10 "Blessed are those who are persecuted because of shitposting, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven".

fruity. Profile Joined April 2012 England 1711 Posts #17 On November 04 2014 08:38 mishimaBeef wrote:

Show nested quote +

On November 04 2014 08:37 SC2Toastie wrote:

Interesting how many of these problems like observer interface, clutter on the screen and other preferential settings could be changed by designing some client based viewer option....



Thinking outside the box, very nice. Thinking outside the box, very nice.



I'll second that too, if Blizzard gave an API to allow such things, it would treuly be awesome.

I'll second that too, if Blizzard gave an API to allow such things, it would treuly be awesome. Ex Zerg learning Terran. A bold move.

mishimaBeef Profile Blog Joined January 2010 Canada 2256 Posts Last Edited: 2014-11-03 23:54:06 #18 Polt vs Classic in WCS 2014 Ro16. Disgusting amount of clutter, despite health bars on damaged units only (which really doesn't change much in mid-late game as almost all units are damaged or quickly damaged once an engagement begins). Dare to live the life you have dreamed for yourself. Go forward and make your dreams come true. - Ralph Waldo Emerson

sM.Zik Profile Joined June 2011 Canada 2497 Posts #19 Damaged healthbar only is the way to go for viewing and playing, imo. You only see the HP bar of units/buildings that are damaged and the mana bar, everything else that is full you dont see it, so nothing not necessary on the screen. I dont know why its so unpopular. Jaedong Fighting! | youtube.com/ZikGaming

purakushi Profile Joined August 2012 United States 3259 Posts Last Edited: 2014-11-04 00:07:26 #20 Proleague/highlight/BW style healthbars plz.

Damaged only is kind of okay, but anything but always.



Hardcore viewers should be able to tell what is going on, anyway.



Also, Blizzard should reduce the height of the HP/etc bars/UI.

See SC2:BW for a good example.



It would also help if the UI was not prioritised/"on top" of the unit models. SC2 does not take advantage of HP bars that much, anyway. Everything just evaporates, as the units are just as cluttered as the UI. June 2010 - August 2017: waiting for the return of Starcraft

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