Name an area in greater downtown Detroit, and Dan Gilbert thinks it makes sense to build there.

"The river, anything along Woodward, starting to go west into Corktown, Capitol Park," said the billionaire founder and chairman of Quicken Loans Inc. and Rock Ventures LLC, the most active developer in the city of Detroit with his Detroit-based Bedrock LLC.

The company, which is run by CEO and co-founder Jim Ketai, has five or six large-scale developments and redevelopments in the works downtown: ground-up new construction and redevelopments of historic buildings such as the David Stott Building and the Book Tower. All told, Gilbert and his team say they have about $3 billion in projects ready to go, but they are pushing for some help from the Legislature in the form of a proposed law that would grant tax breaks for certain so-called "transformational" projects around the state.

Following a discussion at the University of Michigan/Urban Land Institute Michigan Real Estate Forum earlier this month, Gilbert spoke with Crain's Detroit Business reporter Kirk Pinho about those projects, the legislation and, among other things, why he believes 10 million square feet of new office space is needed in Detroit. The interview was conducted the day before Gilbert announced along with Under Armour CEO Kevin Plank that the Baltimore-based retailer would open a 17,000-square-foot store in one of Gilbert's buildings.

Gilbert: I can't give you the numbers, but I can give you the formula. Basically what I did at the time, if you take the occupied square footage in downtown and Midtown, how ever you measure it, 7.2 square miles, right? And say, if all the companies that are currently there just grew at the rate of GDP and they needed corresponding growth of their office space. The economy grows 3 percent, they grow 3 percent and their office space grows 3 percent. I can make a case that that's very conservative because that accounts for not a single new tenant moving downtown. I'm just saying if they just grew at the rate of GDP and their space grew at the rate of GDP, and I can also say some of the companies like us, and maybe even General Motors, for that matter, can probably make a case that we grow faster than the rate of GDP. Based on what space was available and what that number turned out to be. … Make sense?

Gilbert: We are quoting $27.

Gilbert: You don't need any of those based on what I just said. We don't need anybody coming down, but they will and they are. There is one (tenant) you haven't gotten ahold of.

Gilbert: No.

Gilbert: I don't know. Could be. There could be another one, too. Has that been reported? (Aside, to public relations staff) Have you guys seen that in the clips anywhere? It might not be them.

Gilbert: So your question is, why is the marketplace …

Gilbert: Because there was such a glut of office space, plus the price of the buildings and the price per square foot went to such a low … and the construction costs kept going like this (up), I would argue the same thing if I didn't know all the stuff and experience. Because how does that make sense? Because less supply, rates go higher, but there is a gap because it's not that easy to take people who are used to paying $19 … especially when there is space in the suburbs, too. We wouldn't go there for competitive reasons; we would go there because we just don't have (available space) and we want to put everything in Detroit. The average person could still take empty space there. … In other words, they could say, "I could pay $25 or $27 (per square foot) in Detroit, but I'm not going to pay $40, even though it's new." There is a period of time I think, to move the market, when you need some incentive thing that only helps the state on a net basis. If I'm the state, I'm not approving it either, by the way; you have to have a tangible net gain. Have you seen it?

Gilbert: Based on population. It's called "transformational," (projects) and there is a formula they use. And then there is a limit on a statewide basis how many projects a year, and there's a limit on each city, I think, too.

Pinho: There are some that are $25 million, which would be transformational for them, versus $500 million for Detroit, say.

Gilbert: We need to have stakeholders. There is no way we are going to get this through the Legislature without really having a statewide coalition based on the state Legislature. We were sort of surprised to talk to Saginaw and Flint and even Marquette. There are people that are sort of in the same situation on a smaller scale who really think this is really going to kickstart their cities.

Gilbert: It's a long, complicated process right now — a lot of moving parts to it. We had it come out of the Senate committee, so the next step is to get to the Senate floor, then the House committee and then the House floor. Then the governor, too. The governor has to — they (lawmakers) have to know that he's going to be there and not veto something.

Gilbert: We are, and others are as well, as you know. … We think the river, anything along Woodward, starting to go west into Corktown, Capitol Park. I'm not sure office stuff would be over there, but more residential or smaller-type uses, more boutique offices, stuff like that. But we flat-out need. … Let me give you an example. We have net — not just Quicken, but the family of companies — we have net gain, year-to-date in 2016 of 2,000 new people; 250 square feet, on average (per employee). We use less than the average. We put more people in. Jimmy (Ketai) tries to squeeze as many people. It's probably between 200 and 220 (square feet per person) when you take into account corridors, lobby, conference rooms. That's 400,000 to 500,000 (square feet). We, ourselves, just one business, not even in one year, we occupy 400,000 to 500,000 more feet of space in Detroit. That's what I am talking about. We would like to do that next year. Rock Connections (a Gilbert-owned strategic marketing company specializing in call center services). You know Rock Connections?

Gilbert: They are absolutely booming, getting business from everywhere. And this is the greatest job ever for Detroiters who don't have college degrees or maybe don't have high school degrees. I've been saying this about call centers for years now. Hire somebody, if they can talk, show up on time, wear a tie, come in to work, get $12 an hour plus full, great benefits, the good ones move up and can do Quicken Loans-type banking jobs, and even if they don't, it's not a bad start, compared to … I always look at like two, three industries. What's going to help the Detroiters where it's not happening, they are not going to college, or they dropped out of high school and they do want to work. A call center is a great place. They got like 700 people. They just moved in there, and they are out of space like six months ago, and they are out of space.

Gilbert: I think what you're saying is right, but there is Hudson's, and then there's the other ones. We have about five or six of them ready to go here. We have plans for residential, office, some stuff that's very, very needed — community … you'll see.

Gilbert: On Hudson's or the whole thing?

Gilbert: What we'd like to do is be sure we have this gap filled. We are not going to make a killing — at least not the near, short-term, the first five or 10 years, on any of these buildings. And you don't have to be, and I think people know that. We don't sit there with spreadsheets saying we need X return. What we just don't want to have is a bleed with negative cash flow and have that depress the whole market. So we look to just get a few percent above par, at least at the beginning. You can run numbers all day. First of all, we only occupy 37 percent of our buildings. Thirty-seven percent. That's it. Even with our growth and everything, we have to have others, and they are not going to pay above what they will pay.

Gilbert: I don't know the exact number. I really don't.

Gilbert: I don't know. I'm trying to think. Look, if you're going to build there … what do you call that in business school?

Gilbert: Economies of scale.

Gilbert: You'd be a great businessperson then.

Gilbert: Everything is happening the way it was supposed to happen. When we went in originally, we proposed that the consultant that they end up using, that we would both use it together, that that would be the best, unbiased way of doing it so we wouldn't sit there and have to have ours say this, and theirs say this, and then everybody would argue who's right and who's wrong on a line-item basis. So we said, how about this? We'll pay half and you pay half and get one unbiased, third-party consultant and let them go in and analyze the cost; not only the cost on what it would take to complete the jail, but also the cost to move onto the alternative sites and then what the deficit is and all that stuff. They (commissioners) said you've got to have your own consultant. So after they had already ordered … we were like three weeks behind them, and we did hire one, an outside third party that's going through, and we'll be there in a few weeks. Now we are going to compare theirs to ours. Ours is determining exactly how much it would cost to build what they want to build somewhere else, as well as the other buildings they would move, and then see if there is a deficit, which there will be, and how much of that can be eaten up by the cost of buying the land and any other creative ways to make this happen.

Gilbert: I do believe, in this case. Look, you never know in politics and with holidays, but my gut is that one way or the other, this thing will probably come to a head by New Year's Day.