pokemon sparrow said:



Ability: Guts



EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe



Jolly Nature



- Drain Punch



- Facade



- Mach Punch



- Bulk Up





I've been running Jolly Conkeldurr quite a lot recently. I don't find the drop in power noticeable, and at +1 you still have no switch-ins. Jolly allows me to get the jump on opposing Conkeldurr and allows me to out speed one soft check commonly utilised by stall: Togekiss. According to PIFs recent RMT he's currently running a 0 speed Bold Togekiss variant. Conkeldurr is able to maintain a 2HKO on Togekiss after rocks with a Jolly nature; it's also able to out speed it. Facade is still able to 2HKO Quagsire, and Alomomola gives Conkeldurr an opportunity to further boost its stats. Any competent stall player understands the risk of running EVs to creep Jolly Conkeldurr. I thought I would post this set here to highlight how ridiculous I think Conkeldurr is in the current metagame.





calcs 252 Atk Guts Conkeldurr Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 193-228 (48.9 - 57.8%) -- 59% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery



252 Atk Guts Conkeldurr Facade (140 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Togekiss: 180-212 (48.2 - 56.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery



+1 252 Atk Guts Conkeldurr Facade (140 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Togekiss: 270-318 (72.3 - 85.2%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock Conkeldurr @ Flame OrbAbility: GutsEVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe- Drain Punch- Facade- Mach Punch- Bulk UpI've been running Jolly Conkeldurr quite a lot recently. I don't find the drop in power noticeable, and at +1 you still have no switch-ins. Jolly allows me to get the jump on opposing Conkeldurr and allows me to out speed one soft check commonly utilised by stall: Togekiss. According to PIFs recent RMT he's currently running a 0 speed Bold Togekiss variant. Conkeldurr is able to maintain a 2HKO on Togekiss after rocks with a Jolly nature; it's also able to out speed it. Facade is still able to 2HKO Quagsire, and Alomomola gives Conkeldurr an opportunity to further boost its stats. Any competent stall player understands the risk of running EVs to creep Jolly Conkeldurr. I thought I would post this set here to highlight how ridiculous I think Conkeldurr is in the current metagame. Click to expand...

BAN

Well, I figured this was gonna be one of the first ones to be publicly suspected. Homeboy pokemon sparrow beat me to the punch for the main argument, but I'd like to extend a bit from his point for my argumentWhile this is a solid point and example, I don't this isn't the sole reason to construct a ban argument, as that's what the wallbreaker class of pokemon is supposed to do (conk being no exception here)., most wallbreaker mons are also balanced out by some weakness or counterplay, including:1. below average combination of speed and/or at least one defensive stat so high offense mons can take them down before they can get in a hit (e.g Hoopa and Nidoking)2. Fear/necessity to avoid having their wallbreaking potential neutralized/limited by status effects (particularly toxic and burn, paralysis to a lesser extent)3. shallow movepool so their attack patterns are predictable and easier to read and play against (not many examples of this in UU that I can think of atm, but Mega-Manetric in OU is a prime example of this)4. The necessity to first use a setup move in order to wallbreak and/or sweep late game (Tail-Glow Manaphy in OU, Bulky SD Scizor and SD/DD Feraligatr + Haxorus in UU, etc.)Conkeldurr in UU metagame doesn't have these weaknesses (or rather, they are mitigated entirely by its strengths):1. The only definitively low stat conkeldurr has is speed, but the combination of high HP and decent defenses + drain punch allows it to body most strong non-super effective hits and recover most of the damage off. In addition, mach punch allows it to circumvent its low speed and pick off weakened threats.2. Sharkeisha has Guts...not much else needs to be said here3. Conk's movepool is FAR from shallow. In addition to the standard set described above, it can run coverage moves including knock off, thunder punch, ice punch, and posion jab depending on what your team needs coverage against4. Bulk up helps Conkledurr wallbreak, but is not completely necessary thanks to flame orb + guts combination (demonstrated by Sparrow's calcs above)Ultimately the argument for Conk comes down to the main (albeit controversial because most people, myself included sometimes, get the definitions misconstrued) arguments when it comes to banning pokemon: checks vs. counters vs. counterplay. Personally I'm of the opinion that no counterplay (not necessarily no counters), constitutes a solid banworthy argument. And based on both what I've seen and my own personal use with Conkeldurr, with no viable switch-ins, its wallbreaker weaknesses mitigated by its strengths, and very easy-to-complement team support options (some major examples include pairing with Weavile on Offense to cover it’s two most notable checks in Bird Jeezus and Latias, and my personal favorite being scarf latias healing wish pass so I can initially use Conkeldurr more recklessly in early-mid game then bring it back from near-death late game to clean up a weakened enemy team), I believe that Conk is pushed past the "no counters" state and into "no counterplay" territory. Therefore, I am leaning towardsfor this suspect test.