It’s College Street vs. The Shubert

by Thomas Breen | Aug 24, 2018 8:03 am

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Posted to: Arts & Culture, Music, True Vote

The next occupant for a vast, publicly owned commercial space on Crown Street will be either a mid-size music venue run by a successful local concert promoter, or two smaller performance spaces and a rehearsal studio run by a consortium of local theaters in collaboration with a small private Catholic college. Those were the results of the New Haven Parking Authority’s three-month-long Request for Proposal (RFP) process to find a new business for the nearly 10,000 square-foot, publicly owned commercial space on the street level of the Crown Street parking garage at the corner of Crown Street and College Street. The parking commissioners released the RFP in May, and formally closed the submission period on Thursday afternoon at the Parking Authority’s headquarters at 232 George St. At exactly 3 p.m., Brian Seholm, the Parking Authority’s chief financial officer, opened the applications and read the names of those who had applied. He announced that the Parking Authority received submissions from two applicants. It received one application from the New Haven Center for the Performing Arts (NHCPA), the nonprofit that runs the successful College Street Music Hall across the street. The second application came from a consortium of Long Wharf Theatre, the Shubert Theatre, and Albertus Magnus College. John Fisher, the executive director of the Connecticut Association for the Performing Arts (CAPA), which runs the century-old Shubert next door to the vacant space on College Street, said the consortium of Long Wharf Theatre, the Shubert, and Albertus Magnus hopes to build two performance spaces and a rehearsal studio in the vacant commercial space. Local attorney Steve Mednick, who represented NHCPA at Thursday afternoon’s announcement, said that his client hopes to replicate but on a slightly smaller scale what College Street Music Hall has been doing across the street for the past several years. “We think this space can open us up to some performers that New Haven is not currently getting,” Mednick said about NHCPA’s plans for a mid-size concert venue in the garage commercial space. Update: Mednick contacted the Independent Sunday to reiterate that the plan is for a concert venue, not a dance club. He was responding to what he called inaccurate assumptions made by some commenters to this story. After the reading of the applications, Parking Authority counsel Joseph Rini said he was a bit surprised that the Parking Authority received only two proposals, considering how 45 people visited the space during a venue-bid tour in July. However, he and city transportation chief Doug Hausladen noted, the space is huge at nearly 10,000 feet. Rini said that now a review committee consisting of three members from the Parking Authority, three members appointed by the mayor, and the mayor’s chief of staff will review the two proposals. That review committee will provide comments to the Parking Authority hopefully within the next month, and then the Parking Authority will ultimately decide between the two. Rini said the Parking Authority will likely pick between the two applicants during its October meeting. Click on the Facebook Live video below to watch the reading of the submissions.

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posted by: new havener on August 23, 2018 6:13pm This is too confusing…Toad’s Place , a renown venue, is not bringing any name bands in, College St Music Hall, a fabulous venue, is seemingly struggling as well for top-flight shows, while the Capital Theater in Port Chester does great, yet New Haven needs a smaller music venue in a city-owned spot? I mean, come on! Why don’t they put in an 80’s/90’s dance club, and…let’s see…call it Boppers?? I’m starting to believe New Haven is a mess.

posted by: AverageTaxpayer on August 23, 2018 7:26pm The article doesn’t say, but I presume this space is still to be rented/given away at a ridiculous $6/ft? ($60,000/yr, or $5,000/month). Fwiw, neighboring commercial rents are at $25-$40/ft. Also, is this a good time to ask about the 3,000sf, College Street commercial space that was included in the Cooperative Arts High School. Some reason why that isn’t getting rented?

posted by: grammerpsycho on August 23, 2018 7:37pm that’s not Steve Mednick that’s Jerry Garcia.

posted by: robn on August 23, 2018 7:46pm College Street Music Hall is doing great.

posted by: omgreally1977 on August 23, 2018 8:16pm Mostly likely College Street Music Hall will win this. Yale has been trying to kill Toad’s for years and a new Toad’s size venue could finally get it done. Sorry Shubert/Albertus/LW Yale wins. But maybe you are part of this and just put in a proposal to make it look good. Future 2019 Headline: Legendary Music Venue Closes.

posted by: new havener on August 23, 2018 8:22pm @robn…not saying they are not “doing great”, I just don’t see them bringing in top-flight shows like The Capitol, or even The Palace in Waterbury, of all places…they can do very I well, I’d guess, with “SuicideGirls: Blackheart Burlesque” or “Chromeo”, I’m just not seeing sellouts is all.

posted by: Kevin McCarthy on August 23, 2018 8:35pm New Havener, I recognize few of the names on the College Street marquee; this may have something to do with me being 64. Your proposal for a reincarnation of Boppers suggests you are not that much younger. More seriously, the fact that College Street is putting in a bid to develop a second venue suggests that it is doing well financially. Average Taxpayer, part of the space at Co-op High School is being rented to a commercial firm, although the space was vacant for several years. Tom, going to AT’s first point, are the applications public? If so, could you provide a link?

posted by: robn on August 23, 2018 8:54pm Toots & The Maytals

Wilco

Kurt Vile

Decemberists

Steve Earle

Iron & Wine

Seu Jorge

Pixies

Social Distortion

Trombone Shorty

Melissa Ethridge

The Flaming Lips

Reverand Horton Heat

Violent Femmes

Peter Bjorn & John

Built To Spill

etc

etc

etc

posted by: Bill Saunders on August 23, 2018 9:47pm I vote for the proposal that did not come from a consortium of non-profits looking to expand their downtown footprint…. As I have said before, College Street Music Hall is the most significant cultural addition to New Haven in decades…. doesn’t the Shubert still ‘close’ for the summer???

posted by: new havener on August 23, 2018 11:43pm robn, stop trying to put the beatdown on me…I said ‘top-flight shows’, and ‘I’m not seeing sellouts’...I like the CSMH, just don’t understand why they want a smaller music venue across the street when they have an underused(IMHO) already… https://youtu.be/QIk_yUkisPU Reverend Horton Heat was a great show(2 years ago), not near a sell-out, they went to Collinsville(of all places!) last year, and this year are not returning to CT…almost the same for Social Distortion(Oct 3rd/Capitol)...I missed the Flaming Lips…when was that? Maybe I’ll try the BlackHeart Burlesque…first drink on me. ;)

posted by: JCFremont on August 24, 2018 7:57am Basically I am at the age where I am “To Old to Rock ‘n Roll but To Young to Die,” so I don’t recognize any of the groups or most music on current radio stations, so I can’t judge the success of music clubs. I do know the “legendary” groups that have played at Toad’s on their way up are in danger of turning to dust. New Haven looks to want to miss any music beyond clubs. Live Nation is building a music venue at Harbor Yard, Oakdale, Xfinity in Hartford while New Haven wants to be Greenwich Village. A few people have asked me this week what do they use this stadium [Yale Tennis Center] during the rest of the year. I tell them it isn’t used.

posted by: Kevin McCarthy on August 24, 2018 8:06am Bill, both proposals are coming from non-profits that would expand their New Haven footprint.

posted by: Stylo on August 24, 2018 9:21am CSMH gets the right acts for its size. Acts that would’ve never done Toad’s or ever stopped in the area. I think some of the commenters judging it might be the wrong demographic…

posted by: LorcaNotOrca on August 24, 2018 9:30am If these are the two to choose from, it makes the most sense for this space that it go to the College Street people. At that intersection downtown, a smaller concert venue/club is a better fit and all-around makes more sense.

College Street’s doing really well and has been a major asset downtown. Toad’s Place is crap these days, and a better club of comparable size would be great. If I remember correctly, it would be a little smaller than Toads, but a little bigger than the Space Ballroom in Hamden, capacity-wise (so more than 300 but less than 1000?). I don’t want to potentially make the Ballroom suffer, but I’ve seen a few shows there that would have benefitted greatly from being downtown and not in a suburban industrial park (I say that will all due respect to the Space people).

Maybe if this concert venue comes through, they can have the bar open even on nights when no shows are taking place—then at least it can maintain a presence as a place to go, etc etc.?

posted by: robn on August 24, 2018 9:38am Flaming Lips show was epic. and we’re also very lucky to get a band like Wilco in a 2000 seat venue.

posted by: Concerned74 on August 24, 2018 10:46am Let’s remember that this space is directly across from a high school. What downtown New Haven doesn’t need is another club causing some of the problems Toad’s and other clubs have had with smaller acts and their fans. More arts and education options would be a better fit.

posted by: Bill Saunders on August 24, 2018 1:32pm Kevin, The operative word in my comment was ‘consortium’....

posted by: __quinnchionn__ on August 24, 2018 1:57pm A cultural center and museum will better fit the needs for the area. I think there’s enough clubs and music venues that goes on as it is. However, there is a lacking of sports entertainment venues in the city.

posted by: BetweenTwoRocks I’m rooting for College Street if only because they seem more inclined to promote local comedy shows with a smaller venue, whereas Albertus Magnus seems to be producing just like… more theater?

posted by: Bill Saunders on August 24, 2018 2:28pm Quinnchione, Personally, I am worried about an ‘oversaturation’ of the music scene in New Haven. I look at this project as creating unnecessary competition for a music scene that is finally growing into it’s own. There is only so much ‘audience’ to go around… Rob Greenberg’s vision for a Museum and Wine Bar would have been a better fit…

posted by: pauldhammer on August 24, 2018 2:35pm I wish it were possible for the two bidders to work together and share the space as both plans are interesting and cooperation between the competing parties might make the space more financially viable. In any case, the use of this space for theater performances would be the realization in part of a 1980’s plan for a black box within the redesigned Shubert for use by community performers and visual artists. This design option was scratched for lack of funds and resulted in a meeting that eventually led to the formation of Artspace. I am excited to see another arts district expanding in the cultural capital of Connecticut, to complement Audubon Street and Erector Square, along with many stand-alone arts fixtures around town.

posted by: Sean O'Brien It’s absurd that we’re even having this discussion. The Shubert (like Tweed) pays a ceremonial $1 annual rent to the City and receives $250K yearly. In the past few years, it has also been bailed out to the tune of $2 million+ in State subsidies. Meanwhile, College Street faced substantial obstacles from Yale to even opening (see coverage of Alexander v. Nemerson emails in NHv Indy). And now it’s very successful, and bidding for a property that will supplement its success (much like other concert halls in NYC have smaller venues adjacent to them).

posted by: 1644 on August 24, 2018 3:24pm Didn’t the Shubert require a bailout from the city? Why would the city want a financially unstable and needy organization to expand? Concerned: How much happens at the high school late in the evening? My club going days are (mostly) behind me, but in my day they didn’t get going until 10 pm. I recall Ziggy Marley starting after midnight at the Third World International Cafe, and the same with John Cale at someplace near Temple or Whitney. (The 3d World Cafe was quite a trip. My friend & I showed up at 8, and were the only white boys in the place until midnight. I think to barmaid liked us, because it seemed our drinks were stronger than anyone else’s. We were pretty happy by midnight. The show ended about 4 am, and we started work at 7. After that, our boss forbade my friend from going out with me. :).

posted by: Sean O'Brien @1644 I can’t resist: “Didn’t the Shubert require a bailout from the city? Why would the city want a financially unstable and needy organization to expand?” aka Didn’t [Tweed] require a bailout from the city? Why would the city want a financially unstable and needy organization to expand? ;)

posted by: LA1996 on August 24, 2018 4:54pm The best fit for this space is by far the Shubert group. The space doesn’t need another ‘dance club’ that College Street wants to bring in. Dance clubs are trouble. Drugs, fights and shootings on College Street would be what you are looking at. They last 3 to 5 years and they are gone. If College Street Music Hall says they wants a showplace, why has their leader been bragging all over town that he wants a dance club there? Music Hall has been bringing in acts that do 500 people and over to College Street. Why spend all that money on a place for live entertainment when they already have the ability to do those type smaller shows and not even pay any taxes (since they are a non-profit)? Since Music Hall opened in 2015, it has had maybe 25 shows that were worthwhile and with full houses. Music Hall went in spending millions on a place that will never, ever see that return coming back. There are many folks in the city that do not want to see another dance club on the corner of College and Crown. We’ve been there, done that. It will cause trouble in the city’s entertainment district. We’ve seen basement stabbings and tons of troublemakers moving around that area. The police don’t want to close down streets at 2am and deal with the insanity of it all. College Street has not run a dance oriented spot in the past and have no idea what they are getting into. It will mean trouble, trouble and more trouble for them and even more trouble for the city. To be handed that spot on a silver platter along with its six dollars a square foot rent is insane. It will mean that not only would it be putting the wrong thing in the wrong place, but basically giving it away as well. Matt Nemerson mentioned in the New Haven Independent that the six dollars is offset by the build out costs. However, almost all businesses have build out costs. It’s part of building a business. So to give these folks a prime spot at six bucks a square foot because they are doing what everyone [Ed.: The College Street people have contacted us to reassert that the plan is for a convert venue, not a dance club.]

posted by: 1644 on August 24, 2018 5:20pm Sean: There is no proposal to expand the airport, just improve its facilities within its present footprint. Likewise, I would not be opposed to the Shubert improving its facilities within its present footprint so that it could attract more business, be open more nights, longer, etc. Ideally, the Shubert would be as busy as Radio City Music Hall when the Christmas Spectacular is on, i.e five shows a day bringing thousands of well-heeled customers downtown.

posted by: LA1996 on August 24, 2018 5:41pm (continued) ... else does that starts up a business makes no sense. They will be sitting there with very little overhead while creating chaos. The city is already battling a bad problem concerning drug overdoses. It doesn’t need another one. Let’s really think about what we are doing. The Shubert group would make a venue free of bar room brawls, drugs and weapons, and is a natural for that spot. The perfect building blocks for our great city that will last for decades! (not some dumb short term dance club.) Let’s do what’s right. Let’s vote for something that will help the city shine as it moves into the future. Dance clubs are a dime a dozen. They come and they go and have many, many liabilities that come with them. Don’t forget what happened with the last guy who occupied that spot. It took a long time to just get him out of there. He had a cheap rent and the place became a cesspool. Let’s not fall into that same trap. Let’s do what makes sense and put something that makes us proud into the vacancy on College and Crown!

posted by: Kevin McCarthy on August 24, 2018 6:09pm I think my friend Paul Hammer is on to something. I think there could be be a benefit if the city allowed the two bidders to submit a revised, collaborative bid, so long as the offered rent were as least as high as the higher bid. Bill, what substantive difference is there between a consortium of nonprofits and a single nonprofit as the tenant? Just curious - I don’t have a preference myself.

posted by: Sean O'Brien @1644 Your twisting of the facts is wrong here. “There is no proposal to expand the airport, just improve its facilities within its present footprint.” There is no expansion proposal *now*, though activists have beaten it back at least 3 times in the past 10 years. “Current footprint” is a falsehood - as you and others have noted, expanding the runway to pave the RSAs will take millions of dollars in federal funds. Tweed is already liable for tens of millions in federal grants, and any paving will add to the pile. This mirrors the City’s constant borrowing of money - a “worry about it later, hopefully I’m not in office” mentality. I have the documentation from FOIA requests to respond with proof but, to be honest, I’m getting sick of providing you with the benefit of the doubt on this and having to keep showing documentation for the obvious reality. I really think you need to think about the Shubert in the same vein, as well as Pilot Pen. Notably, they all have been bailed out by the City and pay a nominal rent of $1. It’s not coincidence.

posted by: Sean O'Brien As far as Shubert shows are concerned: I am a huge concert-goer and festival-goer. I have been to hundreds of shows in the past 5-10 years, with no exaggeration. I have, on occasion, paid the high prices necessary to see a Shubert show. The Shubert is overpriced and a bad venue for many bands. College Street is a GIFT to concert-goers in Connecticut. Anything they do is much more likely to be better than Shubert’s plans, just based upon the short history of College Street so far. From a music aficionado perspective, College Street is by far the best thing to happen to New Haven. I like rock, punk, jazz, hip hop, and on and on. All of it is better served by College Street’s management.

posted by: e1971 on August 24, 2018 8:59pm What the city needs is more arts not more music in an already music rich environment in the New Haven area ( College St, Toad’s, The Space, Stella Blue, Cafe 9, Pacific Standard, Bar, Brother Jimmies) And there no space for more trouble from another dance club!! Shubert all the way!!

posted by: robn on August 24, 2018 9:26pm Third World Cafe = Fuzzy Memories + Good Times

posted by: Bill Saunders on August 24, 2018 10:38pm Kevin, Whenever a bunch of non-profits pool their resources to do ‘something new’, there should be a giant red flag. Albertus Magnus has no truck or business in this ‘compact’. The Shubert is closed all summer to begin with, but have been eyeing the property for years. The Long Wharf missed their big ‘move downtown’ about a decade ago…. College Street Music Hall has been an impressive addition to downtown. They are already bringing smaller shows to the old Outer Space. Maybe it’s the Outer Space, and not Toad’s that will bear the brunt depending on the ‘outcome’. If the Shubert Enterprise should win, we might all be doomed to watching Andrew Lloyd Weber revivals at their Cabaret, since Cats doesn’t fill the big theatre like it used to…..

posted by: Uranman180 on August 24, 2018 10:46pm It would they’ve great to have the Shubert Theatre win this and expand the current offering of the arts in this spot with an amazing consortium. This is a prime location for such a venue of this type. There’s already a few dance clubs downtown and New Haven is in desperate need of creating something that not only gives back to the community through the arts but needs to establish a venue that will be impactful and less hedonistic. The last thing this spot needs is a venue to push the hedonistic ebb and flow as there is currently multiple problems of heavy drug users, congested late night traffic when the nightclubs close and people loiter in the streets into the late hours of the night. New Haven deserves better and can do better and begin to thrive again. In Appreciation of a Greater New Haven, Urbanman180

posted by: James Sunderland on August 26, 2018 12:38am Bill- There’s more kinds of plays out there beyond musicals and cats, just are there are other theatres involved beyond the Shubert. Long Wharf does some incredible stuff. Albertus magnus is a great theatre school. I think their pitch is wondeful. There’s plenty of small sized music venues around the city.

What we don’t have is dedicated small theatre spaces like they have in Philly or Chicago. Companies like Bregamos, Collective Consciousness, and New Haven theatre company make due with improvised spaces in art studios and the back of a thrift store. Spaces like the Little Theatre on Lincoln Street and Co-op High school would be wonderful if they were accesible to small, independent theatre artists, but their operators (ECA and CAPA - speak of the devil -, respectively) charge enormous fees for use. I would support the shubert consortium pitch IF they agree to make the spaces accessible. New Haven should have a much bigger small theatre community then it does- hopefully this space will provide that opportunity to grow.

posted by: Bill Saunders on August 26, 2018 3:25am The Schubert Consortium is clearly the inside favorite that Nemerson lost his job over.

posted by: Kevin McCarthy on August 26, 2018 4:50pm Bill, the last time I checked the city’s website (five minutes ago), Matt still runs the city’s Economic Development Administration.

posted by: 1644 on August 26, 2018 5:17pm james s.: Both Philadelphia and Chicago are substantially larger than New Haven, so we shouldn’t compare New haven to them. New Haven has tons of great theater: The Long Wharf & Rep, the Shubert for bigger shows, plus the Drama School, Cabaret, undergrad Dramat and residential college dramats. Plus, of course, community theater in Edgerton Park and other spots. It seems the groups you mention don’t have a lot of financial support, and think because they want to do theater, someone else should be forced to subsidize them. I don’t see why that should be so. If people want theater, they will pay for it. (Although the last time I was at the Long Wharf, the complaint was that its subscriber base was literally dying off.)

posted by: Bill Saunders on August 27, 2018 1:22am Kevin, That’s crazy. When did his unpaid leave expire? http://www.newhavenindependent.org/index.php/archives/entry/nemerson_placed_on_leave/ btw, I don’t think either choice is a bad one, I am just flat out against ‘insider politics’.

That is something the sullies the mix from the start….

posted by: JCFremont on August 27, 2018 7:34am I don’t think that space can be used as anything but a music/bar space that will change names every through years. No one over 27 years old would either notice that block of cement. I believe Long Wharf decided to stay on Long Wharf was becomes many of its older suburban (or East Rock/Westville patrons liked the fact that parking is free. The College Music Hall has found a great niche. That area was once home of multiple theaters and movie houses the colleges all have performing arts spaces, it’s better not to pigeonhole this space. The problem with music clubs is that the industry and the patrons change even if you are in your early 30’s and think you are cool keeping up with new trends eventually maturity and other commitments cause you to move on. Toad’s is living on history and even “legendary” clubs like New York’s Bottom Line close down.

posted by: Kevin McCarthy on August 27, 2018 6:36pm Bill, I don’t know when Nemerson’s leave expired, but he spoke at a public meeting (I believe the Downtown Community Management Team) a few weeks ago in his official capacity. The deal was originally wired for College Street, but if the consortium comes up with more money, I suspect they will win.

posted by: Bill Saunders on August 27, 2018 8:39pm Kevin, Thanks of the ‘inside skinny’!