In an interview with 'Meet The Press' host Chuck Todd, former NYC Mayor Rudy Giuliani argued that Donald Trump has paid all legally required taxes, but fought to pay the least amount possible. "If he didn't take advantage of it [to pay the lowest amount possible], he would have been sued," he argued.



"That's why maybe somebody doesn't want to put out their tax returns, because somebody will distort it that way. I mean the reality is he's a genius," Giuliani said. "And since they didn't put him in jail, I can guarantee you he paid it."



He added: "He probably is better positioned than anyone to figure out how to do away with it, because he understands the tax code better than anyone else. I'd rather have a genius who understands the tax code that wants to reform it."





CHUCK TODD: The very people he wants to work for, when they basically fail at their jobs, or their job goes away, you know, they don't have this kind of ability. I mean this is basically a deduction that benefits wealthy businessmen. He failed at his businesses. Those first three businesses were failures. And then he was able to get a tax break for that failure on the next billion dollars of income. Look, it's all legal. Should it be?



RUDY GIULIANI: That's a good question. But it is, and it was, and we're talking about 21 years ago. And if he didn't take advantage of it, he would have been sued. And that's why maybe somebody doesn't want to put out their tax returns, because somebody will distort it that way. I mean the reality is he's a genius. What he did was he took advantage of something that could save his enterprise. And he did something we admire in America, he came back. The Art of the Deal is all about that. He talks about it. So did Steve Jobs. So did Winston Churchill. Winston Churchill was--



CHUCK TODD: Okay.



RUDY GIULIANI: --thrown out of politics twice and came back. Great men have big failures.



CHUCK TODD: All right.



RUDY GIULIANI: And then they take those failures and they turn them into great results. I'd rather have a genius like Donald Trump running this country than someone like Hillary Clinton. And all she seems to do--



CHUCK TODD: So you think it's--



RUDY GIULIANI: --is to produce jobs for the F.B.I..



CHUCK TODD: You think it's a good example to avoid-- to basically being able to avoid paying federal taxes, to take advantage of loopholes where somebody wealthy can avoid paying actual federal taxes. I understand that it's legal. And we're not debating whether it should be. But is this the right thing we should have in a president?



RUDY GIULIANI: Well first of all, a lot of the people that are poor take advantage of loopholes and pay no taxes. Those are loopholes, also, and they pay no taxes. And also, no matter who you are, if you have a $30 operating loss, you can carry it forward to the next year. And poor people do take advantage of that, also.



Now, do I think the tax code should be simplified? Absolutely. Will he do away with things like this? He probably is better positioned than anyone to figure out how to do away with it, because he understands the tax code better than anyone else. I'd rather have a genius who understands the tax code that wants to reform it. He's the one who's against giving hedge fund guys the big break they get--



CHUCK TODD: Okay.



RUDY GIULIANI: --in paying only 15 percent tax. So you've got to figure out who you're working for. There, he was working for private interests.



CHUCK TODD: Okay.



RUDY GIULIANI: He has to take advantage of those rules, no wrongdoing.



CHUCK TODD: Right.



RUDY GIULIANI: If he were to-- if he can have these kinds of results for us in America, we wouldn't be having 1.5 percent recovery, we'd be having five percent recovery.



CHUCK TODD: All right.



RUDY GIULIANI: Plus, he did pay hundreds of millions of dollars in taxes, state taxes, local taxes.



CHUCK TODD: Well, we don't know this until--



RUDY GIULIANI: --excise taxes.



CHUCK TODD: How do we know this without him releasing his tax returns?



RUDY GIULIANI: Because if he didn't, he'd be in jail. That's why. Because he'd be sitting behind bars if he didn't pay taxes, if he didn't pay sales tax, if he didn't pay excise tax, if he didn't--



CHUCK TODD: Okay.



RUDY GIULIANI: --if he didn't pay property tax.



CHUCK TODD: I understand that. But we don't know how much--



RUDY GIULIANI: He'd be sitting in jail.



CHUCK TODD: We don't know how much it was.



RUDY GIULIANI:All you have to do--



CHUCK TODD: We only can take your word for it.



RUDY GIULIANI: All you have to do is look at his--



CHUCK TODD: Okay.



RUDY GIULIANI: --104-page financial disclosure form. Look at the property--



CHUCK TODD: All right.



RUDY GIULIANI: --that he has. Figure out what the tax rate is in that community. You can figure out what he paid. And since they didn't put him in jail, I can guarantee you he paid it.