state capitol mug oct 24.jpg

( )

Uniformed law enforcement officers packed the Capitol Auditorium this morning for a public hearing on a bill to end the requirement for pistol permits in Alabama.

The House Public Safety Committee heard from five supporters and five opponents to the bill, which would make it optional to get a permit to carry a concealed handgun.

The committee did not vote on the bill and the committee chairman, Rep. Allen Treadaway, R-Morris, said he was not certain when a vote would take place.

Treadaway, a captain with the Birmingham Police Department, said the bill needed more work and he would probably send it to a subcommittee. He said the public hearing was the first step in a process and noted that some questions asked by committee members today were not answered.

"We heard from both sides, equally compassionate about their positions," Treadaway said. "Now we'll put them at a table and see if they can work things out."

All five opponents of the bill who spoke during the hearing were from law enforcement.

They said the permit requirement is an important enforcement tool, such as during traffic stops when police spot guns being carried illegally in vehicles.

Four of the five proponents of the bill were from gun rights groups - two from Bama Carry, one from the National Rifle Association and one from the National Association for Gun Rights.

They said the requirement to buy a permit was an infringement on Second Amendment rights.

Jefferson County Sheriff Mike Hale also spoke in support of the bill.

Both sides today made similar points to what was said during a public hearing in a Senate committee last month.

Treadaway said an example of how the permit requirement is an important tool for law enforcement came last week when Birmingham police stopped a pickup with no headlights on. The officers noticed an AR-15 on the back seat, which was not illegal, Treadaway said. The driver admitted to having a pistol in the truck and did not have a permit for it.

That led to his arrest and a search of the truck, which turned up two pipe bombs and illegal drugs, Treadaway said.

"That's a prime example that if this law passed, the concerns of law enforcement is that tool would be taken away," Treadaway said.

The bill is sponsored by Rep. Isaac Whorton, R-Valley. It is similar to a bill that passed the Senate last week, with Republicans supporting it and Democrats opposed.

Committee member Rep. Thomas Jackson, D-Thomasville, asked Whorton why he supported eliminating the permit requirement considering the problems caused by gun violence.

"Guns are made to kill," Jackson said. "That's what they're made for. And handguns are made to kill people. You don't go hunting with a handgun."

Whorton has noted that if his bill passed it would remain illegal for felons and those convicted of domestic violence to possess a gun. Whorton said those legally eligible to carry a gun should not have to pay a fee for that right.

Rep. Mary Moore, D-Birmingham, said the Second Amendment has been wrongly interpreted to grant individual gun rights, when it should only apply to a "well regulated militia."

Art Thomm, state liaison for the National Rifle Association, gave committee members a handout showing that 12 states allow concealed carry without a permit -- Alaska, Arizona, Idaho, Kansas, Maine, Mississippi, Missouri, Vermont, West Virginia, Wyoming, New Hampshire and Montana.

Rep. Allen Farley, R-McCalla, who is retired from law enforcement, asked Thomm how much money the NRA spends lobbying public officials in Alabama.

Thomm said he did not know.

Jefferson County Sheriff Hale, taking a different position that many of his law enforcement colleagues, said he considered the permit fee an infringement on Second Amendment rights.

He said he believed much of the opposition to the bill was because of the potential loss of revenue for sheriffs. And he questioned whether it posed a threat to public safety.

"Let's cut through the nonsense and hysteria surrounding this bill," Hale said.

Law enforcement officers who spoke in opposition to the bill were Deputy Chief Allen Hatcher of the Birmingham Police Department, Jason Busby of the Talladega Police Department, Lee County Sheriff Jay Jones, Mountain Brook Police Chief Ted Cook and Capt. Michael Salomonsky of the Madison County Sheriff's Department.

Cook noted that his police department received no money from pistol permit fees, so that was not a factor in his opposition to the bill.

Eddie Fulmer, president of Bama Carry, and Warren Clay, a board member for the organization, told the committee the Second Amendment establishes the right to carry a gun, not a privilege.

"We are not free if we must ask permission to exercise a right," Fulmer said.

Corrected at 12:15 p.m. on April 27 to say that five law enforcement officers spoke against the bill.