GRETA VAN SUSTEREN: And you talk about the Main Street, is that we're strangling small businesses. I mean everyone, no is paying much attention to these small businesses. The regulations start strangling them, some are laughable and silly, but they have profound impact on the job creators, those who are making jobs. They can't afford to hire people.



PAUL KRUGMAN: There's been, there's been tons of work on this. And what's holding small business back is not regulations, it's the fact that they don't have sales.



VAN SUSTEREN: It's not all, it's some of it.



KRUGMAN: There's not, there's no correlation looking across, which parts of the economy do small businesses complain about regulations? Which don't they? There's no correlation between that and actual job --



GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS: Let me ask Paul a question and then I'll bring you in. I just want to ask you one question. Is the one exception to that perhaps on health care? Where firms that are greater than 50 people have to pay more. Don't you see some firms cutting off at 49?



KRUGMAN: There might be, but you can't see that in the numbers. And the overwhelming fact of the matter --



VAN SUSTEREN: Well you talk to them. Instead of looking at just numbers, why don't you sit down and talk to them. And if you actually talk to these people, and you go and talk, a lot of them are struggling with this. They don't understand a lot of things that happened to them, they don't understand a lot of things that happened in Washington.



They're very cautious because they see a real dismal economy out there, and that does have an impact.



KRUGMAN: I have talked to them, that's not what they say --