INDEPTH: THE WILLIAM SAMPSON STORY

Death Sentence: The William Sampson Story

An interview with Peter Mansbridge, Part 2

CBC News Online | October 1, 2003



In the first part of our feature interview with Canadian biochemist William Sampson we heard what happened after he was arrested in Saudi Arabia in December of 2000.



He described how he was beaten and tortured.



Sampson was accused of planting a bomb that killed an engineer named Christopher Rodway, even accused of being a spy for the British government.



In February 2001, he was forced to confess on Saudi television.



Then everything changed for Sampson; a crisis led to a revelation of sorts.



In May of 2001, inside the walls of his prison home, William Sampson received one of several visits from his father.



Sampson says a threat by one of his guards to imprison his father threw him into a rage that ended in a trip to the hospital.



After surviving the altercation and realizing the efforts the Saudis had earlier made to save him after a heart attack, William Sampson saw an opportunity.



William Sampson: I became very well aware that if they were going to do anything to me now, they wanted to do it by legitimate means, that they were terrified of my actually dying in anything other than a prescribed execution. And given that my cardiovascular system had decided to quit on me, or damn near quit on me in March, I was obviously in a relatively fragile state. I saw that as a weapon I could use. I realized that they probably weren't going to be able to put me through the same kind of brutality they had in the first few days. If they did, they would kill me.





I had already come to the conclusion by this stage that they were going to make a show trial out of this  I wasn't getting out of here  that there would be a show trial, but to save face, to show their steel to the increasingly dissident fundamentalist factions in their own society, that the Saudis would execute at least one of us as an example of their willingness to clamp down on terrorists, and their willingness to deal with foreigners who violate their laws.



I wasn't married, I'd had good innings, and if I could set myself up to be the fall guy, if I could set myself up to be the one that they take out, then I was fairly certain that my friends would be pardoned as a show of their generosity, as a show of the Saudi generosity. I thought to myself it might as well be me. I'll make myself as unpalatable to them as possible, I'll commit whatever I can which lines me up for whatever they want to throw at me. And I'll give them as much stress back as they've caused me in the process.



That really began to happen in August of 2001 and, as I said, it wasn't an overnight process, so that by the end of 2002, for instance, I was sleeping on a blanket on a concrete floor.



Peter Mansbridge: You did a lot more than sleeping on a concrete floor.



Exclusive:

More from Peter Mansbridge's interview with William Sampson



Web William Sampson: Oh, I didn't wear clothes, I covered my cell block in my uneaten food, in urine, in feces, you name it. I cursed my guards, I cursed their culture, I cursed their religion, I cursed everything, knowing full well that all I was saying conforms to the crime of apostasy, which is also a death-penalty crime. But, to me, it was important, it became important to me to try and recapture some of my integrity, integrity I felt I'd lost by being broken in the initial stage of the beating, the confession. To do that I had to fight back against them in this way.



The benefit was the fact that as I fought back against them, I showed up both my interrogators and many of my prison guards and many of the officials I had to deal with as cowards.



Every time I caused them to respond to me, every time I got in their face and it bothered them, every time I got a reaction out of them, every time I saw something like that, it gave me some strength back, it gave me some emotional strength. It gave me a sense of purpose, it gave me back my sense of integrity, something they'd stolen from me in the first weeks. And in responding to me in the way they were doing, they were actually making me stronger.



Peter Mansbridge: Where does Bill Sampson get the strength to even formulate that plan? Your background, your family?



William Sampson: Well, it's a question I have grave difficulty in all honesty answering. The best I can come up with is that I seem to come from a family of complete and utter stubborn bastards, pardon my language, but I can't think of a single member of my family that wouldn't have done the same. It is something that seems to be innate.



I've always been throughout my life, ask any of my teachers, a difficult little bastard to deal with in school, and anything I'd ever done I go my own way, and I always have done  not always to my own benefit, I must admit  but I have an intense sort of stubborn streak, intense ability to focus. It's not unusual to me and its not unusual to members of my family. It's normal.



Peter Mansbridge: While Sampson despaired of ever getting out alive, events on the outside began to move in his favour. Ontario MP Dan McTeague obtained a letter of forgiveness from Justin Rodway, the son of Sampson's alleged victim. It was given to the Saudi authorities



In May 2002, a deadly bombing by Islamic militants against westerners in Riyadh put more doubt on the theory that it was westerners who were killing each other over alcohol.



Finally, while the Saudi authorities still insisted the prisoners were guilty, Sampson's world changed once again on August 7.





William Sampson: It was about 8:30. I was deciding to roll over on my concrete bed to go to sleep, and something very strange happened  and it didn't strike me as strange until a little later in the evening  and that was a single guard walked into my room, just one, and that was not usual at that stage. Normally six or seven would come into my cell at once if they had to speak to me about anything. But he walked in. Now I must stress that this particular individual that they sent in  I think he was sent in for a reason. Not all of my captors treated me badly. A number of them treated me with quite a great degree of humanity and consideration.



The problem was I wasn't playing with them either so they unfortunately actually bore the brunt of my frustration, the brunt of my temper more than anyone else because they were the ones usually at the front trying to calm me down, and I do feel sorry for them after what I put them through, because they were, many of them, actually trying to help me.



But this particular individual who was a relatively gentle, easygoing sort, I really do feel sorry for him, having to deal with me, I really do. He came into my cell  now, his English was reasonable, but not particularly good  and he came up to me and he said to me to get dressed, 'You have to see the doctor. You have to see doctor.' 'No,' [I said]. This went on for a few minutes, him insisting and me basically ignoring him, until I finally started swearing at him and telling him to get lost, so he gave up and went out of my cell.



The door closed, the door locks, and then I heard it click again, and I thought OK, this is where they're going to come in mob-handed, this is going to be fun. My blood pressure goes up, my pulse goes up, my attempt to go to sleep is completely buggered, and in walks [friend and co-accused] Sandy Mitchell. I haven't seen him since about a week, three or four days before I was arrested, about two days before I was arrested.



Peter Mansbridge: Other than the day you'd seen him beaten.



William Sampson: Other than the day I'd seen him beaten. I certainly hadn't seen him dressed that way and the thing was that, all of a sudden there he is [saying] 'Get dressed, we're going home.'



My first words to him when he walked into the prison cell were 'What are you doing here, Dinkey?' I mean it was just sort of so surreal and mundane it was ridiculous.



Peter Mansbridge: When you finally taste freedom, what was that like?



William Sampson: I didn't feel free until the plane door opened at Heathrow and I walked out of it and I saw the ramp and the bus and smelled the sort of humid London air through the jet fuel, and I knew that phase was over. I knew I was free. That's when I knew. And I cannot believe that there is a high you can get in any circumstance, by any chemical means or by any means you can think of, that matches that moment. I mean even on the plane there was always that  you could land in any country and I could be sent back to Saudi Arabia.



When I touched down in Britain and I stepped out that door, I knew I was free and I think I must have been about 12 inches off the ground walking, easily.



Peter Mansbridge: Will you feel anything when you touch down in Canada?



William Sampson: That's a hard question. In reality, probably not. I mean, I will feel something, because I will be visiting friends, many of whom I haven't seen in years, many of whom I hadn't heard from in years, who rallied to the cause, who came out to support me, many of whom I haven't met.



If I can take a moment to actually thank a few people, there are two gentlemen I would like to thank in particular. One of whom is Dan McTeague, whose idea with regards to involving Justin Rodway was excellent, and this excellent action on his part and his follow-up throughout that were exemplary. Stephan Bergeron of the (Bloc Qu�b�cois), he wasn't just good to me, he was incredibly good to my family.



And again this may sound a little odd, whatever Mr. Bergeron did for me in Saudi Arabia isn't important. What is important to me is all the support he gave to my family throughout my incarceration. That I am particularly thankful for.



There are others such as Alex Neve of Amnesty International [in Canada]. Amnesty over here, who did a lot of work for me. The people at Human Rights Watch. James Lockyer of (The Association in Defence of the Wrongly Convicted), and in particular Rubin Carter.



Peter Mansbridge: A lot of people and agencies and individuals, but no governments or countries.



William Sampson: There will have been a lot of people as far as I have become aware who did do a lot behind the scenes in the Foreign and Commonwealth office here in the U.K. and in the Foreign Affairs office in Canada. But unfortunately, my review of the situation is that more mistakes were made, more things were left undone with regards to that, and therefore I am not as thankful to them as I am to the other individuals who raised the profile of my case and would not let it die.



Peter Mansbridge: Let me show you another clip of Foreign Minister Bill Graham.



Bill Graham: Our view was that we would raise issues only in a way that would be positive in getting Mr. Sampson out. That was the principle that guided everything we did � and in the end we managed to get the release of the individuals who were in prison. So that's what we had to do, and that's what we did do.



Peter Mansbridge: So what he is saying is this "soft power" argument.



William Sampson: To be honest with you, the soft power argument has some validity if you actually have some power in the first place, or if you have some power that you're willing to use in the first place. I'm not sure that was the case with the Canadian government. With the British government I'm sure that is the case.



So I do know that (there was) a lot of what I would refer to as back-channel activity on the part of the British government, putting pressure on the Saudi Arabians and using whatever means they could of keeping the pressure on the Saudi Arabians to get us released. But certainly from what I have seen, from what I have heard, the main drive to have all of us released came from here  the actions of the senior ministers in Canada do not seem to have brought much to the table. On that I mean I have a lot of stuff to review, and go over, but what I've seen so far, particularly the way my family was handled by senior members of cabinet in Canada, has not impressed me, has not impressed me in the least.



Peter Mansbridge: Is that one of the reasons you haven't gone home yet? Or do you consider Canada your home?



William Sampson: I consider home is wherever I happen to have an apartment. Saudi Arabia was my home, I had good friends out there both Saudi and western and that was home to me, as much home as anywhere has ever been for me, so I haven't gone home, I haven't gone back to Canada simply because the majority of my family are over here, my friends, other prisoners I am working with are in the U.K.



It sounds rather odd, but London is the perfect place for me to come to recover from what I've been through, to fit myself back into society. I'm a bit more anonymous in the British media than I would be in the Canadian media and that's allowed me to do things at my own pace, to move around a very, very friendly, and very, very big city.



Peter Mansbridge: What did you learn about the human spirit?



William Sampson: That's a question I'm going to be answering for a long, long, long time, and in many different ways, that there is a part of you that, no matter what they do to you, they can't own. They can break you, they can put you through so much pain you wish to die,  that they can make you say things, and do things, because you are afraid of the pain  but somewhere in the middle of that, somewhere deep down in the bottom, there is buried a part of you that they can never get, that they can never have, that your true freedom that you have, the only true freedom you have, is in that place, and it's in your mind.



And you have to, whenever you're in the sort of situation that I was in, you have to find that part of yourself, find that place, and reach in there for the strength, because that's where you'll find it. They can not completely take over who you are, they can't destroy who you are, without killing you. And that is what you have to work on in a situation like I was in.



Peter Mansbridge: Tormented and tortured, the two friends Saudi police forced to implicate one-other are reunited in London.



William Sampson was just one of seven expatriates arrested following the Saudi car bombings. His friend Sandy Mitchell, a medical worker, was also forced to confess on Saudi television. Mitchell had also run one of the underground clubs that served alcohol to westerners in Riyadh. Prior to their arrest, the two had helped expatriates who were in trouble with the law.



Sampson saw Mitchell twice while he was in prison. Once was on the day he was released. But Sampson also saw him much earlier, when his guards forced him to watch Sandy Mitchell being interrogated.



Peter Mansbridge to Sandy Mitchell: Bill Sampson said the moment that distressed him most was watching you being beaten, and not being able to do anything about it.



Sandy Mitchell: Well, we're close. We've been friends since the Remembrance Day service in 1998. The year Matthew was born.



William Sampson: That's right. I was at his son's christening with a hangover.



Sandy Mitchell: We've been friends ever since. We just clicked; automatic friends. And I if I had seen what they were doing to William that would have distressed me even more. But I didn't find out the degree to which he was tortured until he was released and he told me what had happened to him.



Peter Mansbridge: Now that you know his whole story, given your own experience, what do you think of him?



Sandy Mitchell: He's a good friend. I know the kind of person Dr. Sampson is. He's a good man. He's one of those people who goes out of his way to help people. We're both like that. We visited people who were in prison in SA, anyone who had a problem we tried to help them, that's the sort of people we are. We're not violent people, we're not the kind of characters that the Saudi media are saying we are.



Peter Mansbridge: What about the reverse. What do you think of Sandy Mitchell?



William Sampson: There is nothing that they could have done to me that would have changed my opinion of Sandy Mitchell. It's as simple as that. They may have tried to break the bonds of friendship, they may have tried to turn us against each other, and they will do it by pain, they will break you. No matter how long it takes, they will break you, and you would confess that your own mother was a mad bomber if they wanted you to.



But that doesn't change, it never changed my feelings towards Sandy. And it never could, he's a good friend and a good man. They never got there, they couldn't break that, because I knew that they could make me do or say anything, but what they couldn't do was change my mind at the bottom of these things.



Sandy Mitchell: If our friendship was damaged in any way, then they would have won, and they haven't won. We're still friends. We're still innocent. I'm a member of the medical profession, I cannot go back to my profession until I clear my name.



William Sampson: I'm in pretty much the same boat. I operate as a professional. Whenever I have to fill in a job application, I have to make a statement about whether or not I have a criminal record. I'm an innocent man, but I've got a conviction for murder.



Peter Mansbridge: So what has to happen now?



Sandy Mitchell: The Saudi government has got to realize that they made a mistake. That's all I'm asking for. "Sorry Sandy, we've made a mistake, it happens." Fine, that's good enough for me. And then I can go back to my life, I can try and pick up what's left of my life, I can try and support my family again. I would like to try and go back to saving lives, which I used to do. But I can't do that, I've been stripped of everything, my career, my reputation, my dignity. I've got to have redress, I have to have my name back again, I have to be able to look people in the eye.



Peter Mansbridge: Redress for you is as simple as an apology?



Sandy Mitchell: An apology would be acceptable. We all make mistakes. That's all I'm asking. Just give me my name back. Let me go back to my profession.



Peter Mansbridge to William Sampson: Is that enough for you?



William Sampson: No, I'm probably a little bit harder on that score.



It is not enough for me to see that the Saudi Arabian government apologizes to me. I want to see some form of redress for all of the others in Saudi Arabia; I want to see that the other people who are improperly incarcerated in Saudi Arabian prisons are remembered. And that there is someone out there who is investigating and putting pressure on the government to reform their system to give these people justice.



Peter Mansbridge: William Sampson is working with Sandy Mitchell and the other prisoners and considering their legal options.



As for the Saudi government, it says torture is illegal and if it happened, those responsible will be punished.



The Saudi ambassador to Britain declined an interview but has said the prisoners were well-treated.



As for Sampson, would he ever return?



William Sampson: If I felt that there had been a sufficient reform in the legal regime that exists in Saudi Arabia, I wouldn't have any problems going back there. I wouldn't necessarily have a reason for going back there, I certainly wouldn't be interested in going back there to work, but again I'd have no problems going back there to visit, because I still find it a fascinating place.



Peter Mansbridge: For now, though, William Sampson will remain here in London trying to mend his mind and heal his body. He did tell us, though, that he plans to visit Canada later this month to see family and personally thank those who helped him through his ordeal.











^TOP Oh, I didn't wear clothes, I covered my cell block in my uneaten food, in urine, in feces, you name it. I cursed my guards, I cursed their culture, I cursed their religion, I cursed everything, knowing full well that all I was saying conforms to the crime of apostasy, which is also a death-penalty crime. But, to me, it was important, it became important to me to try and recapture some of my integrity, integrity I felt I'd lost by being broken in the initial stage of the beating, the confession. To do that I had to fight back against them in this way.The benefit was the fact that as I fought back against them, I showed up both my interrogators and many of my prison guards and many of the officials I had to deal with as cowards.Every time I caused them to respond to me, every time I got in their face and it bothered them, every time I got a reaction out of them, every time I saw something like that, it gave me some strength back, it gave me some emotional strength. It gave me a sense of purpose, it gave me back my sense of integrity, something they'd stolen from me in the first weeks. And in responding to me in the way they were doing, they were actually making me stronger.Where does Bill Sampson get the strength to even formulate that plan? Your background, your family?Well, it's a question I have grave difficulty in all honesty answering. The best I can come up with is that I seem to come from a family of complete and utter stubborn bastards, pardon my language, but I can't think of a single member of my family that wouldn't have done the same. It is something that seems to be innate.I've always been throughout my life, ask any of my teachers, a difficult little bastard to deal with in school, and anything I'd ever done I go my own way, and I always have done  not always to my own benefit, I must admit  but I have an intense sort of stubborn streak, intense ability to focus. It's not unusual to me and its not unusual to members of my family. It's normal.While Sampson despaired of ever getting out alive, events on the outside began to move in his favour. Ontario MP Dan McTeague obtained a letter of forgiveness from Justin Rodway, the son of Sampson's alleged victim. It was given to the Saudi authoritiesIn May 2002, a deadly bombing by Islamic militants against westerners in Riyadh put more doubt on the theory that it was westerners who were killing each other over alcohol.Finally, while the Saudi authorities still insisted the prisoners were guilty, Sampson's world changed once again on August 7.It was about 8:30. I was deciding to roll over on my concrete bed to go to sleep, and something very strange happened  and it didn't strike me as strange until a little later in the evening  and that was a single guard walked into my room, just one, and that was not usual at that stage. Normally six or seven would come into my cell at once if they had to speak to me about anything. But he walked in. Now I must stress that this particular individual that they sent in  I think he was sent in for a reason. Not all of my captors treated me badly. A number of them treated me with quite a great degree of humanity and consideration.The problem was I wasn't playing with them either so they unfortunately actually bore the brunt of my frustration, the brunt of my temper more than anyone else because they were the ones usually at the front trying to calm me down, and I do feel sorry for them after what I put them through, because they were, many of them, actually trying to help me.But this particular individual who was a relatively gentle, easygoing sort, I really do feel sorry for him, having to deal with me, I really do. He came into my cell  now, his English was reasonable, but not particularly good  and he came up to me and he said to me to get dressed, 'You have to see the doctor. You have to see doctor.' 'No,' [I said]. This went on for a few minutes, him insisting and me basically ignoring him, until I finally started swearing at him and telling him to get lost, so he gave up and went out of my cell.The door closed, the door locks, and then I heard it click again, and I thought OK, this is where they're going to come in mob-handed, this is going to be fun. My blood pressure goes up, my pulse goes up, my attempt to go to sleep is completely buggered, and in walks [friend and co-accused] Sandy Mitchell. I haven't seen him since about a week, three or four days before I was arrested, about two days before I was arrested.Other than the day you'd seen him beaten.Other than the day I'd seen him beaten. I certainly hadn't seen him dressed that way and the thing was that, all of a sudden there he is [saying] 'Get dressed, we're going home.'My first words to him when he walked into the prison cell were 'What are you doing here, Dinkey?' I mean it was just sort of so surreal and mundane it was ridiculous.When you finally taste freedom, what was that like?I didn't feel free until the plane door opened at Heathrow and I walked out of it and I saw the ramp and the bus and smelled the sort of humid London air through the jet fuel, and I knew that phase was over. I knew I was free. That's when I knew. And I cannot believe that there is a high you can get in any circumstance, by any chemical means or by any means you can think of, that matches that moment. I mean even on the plane there was always that  you could land in any country and I could be sent back to Saudi Arabia.When I touched down in Britain and I stepped out that door, I knew I was free and I think I must have been about 12 inches off the ground walking, easily.Will you feel anything when you touch down in Canada?That's a hard question. In reality, probably not. I mean, I will feel something, because I will be visiting friends, many of whom I haven't seen in years, many of whom I hadn't heard from in years, who rallied to the cause, who came out to support me, many of whom I haven't met.If I can take a moment to actually thank a few people, there are two gentlemen I would like to thank in particular. One of whom is Dan McTeague, whose idea with regards to involving Justin Rodway was excellent, and this excellent action on his part and his follow-up throughout that were exemplary. Stephan Bergeron of the (Bloc Qu�b�cois), he wasn't just good to me, he was incredibly good to my family.And again this may sound a little odd, whatever Mr. Bergeron did for me in Saudi Arabia isn't important. What is important to me is all the support he gave to my family throughout my incarceration. That I am particularly thankful for.There are others such as Alex Neve of Amnesty International [in Canada]. Amnesty over here, who did a lot of work for me. The people at Human Rights Watch. James Lockyer of (The Association in Defence of the Wrongly Convicted), and in particular Rubin Carter.A lot of people and agencies and individuals, but no governments or countries.There will have been a lot of people as far as I have become aware who did do a lot behind the scenes in the Foreign and Commonwealth office here in the U.K. and in the Foreign Affairs office in Canada. But unfortunately, my review of the situation is that more mistakes were made, more things were left undone with regards to that, and therefore I am not as thankful to them as I am to the other individuals who raised the profile of my case and would not let it die.Let me show you another clip of Foreign Minister Bill Graham.Our view was that we would raise issues only in a way that would be positive in getting Mr. Sampson out. That was the principle that guided everything we did � and in the end we managed to get the release of the individuals who were in prison. So that's what we had to do, and that's what we did do.So what he is saying is this "soft power" argument.To be honest with you, the soft power argument has some validity if you actually have some power in the first place, or if you have some power that you're willing to use in the first place. I'm not sure that was the case with the Canadian government. With the British government I'm sure that is the case.So I do know that (there was) a lot of what I would refer to as back-channel activity on the part of the British government, putting pressure on the Saudi Arabians and using whatever means they could of keeping the pressure on the Saudi Arabians to get us released. But certainly from what I have seen, from what I have heard, the main drive to have all of us released came from here  the actions of the senior ministers in Canada do not seem to have brought much to the table. On that I mean I have a lot of stuff to review, and go over, but what I've seen so far, particularly the way my family was handled by senior members of cabinet in Canada, has not impressed me, has not impressed me in the least.Is that one of the reasons you haven't gone home yet? Or do you consider Canada your home?I consider home is wherever I happen to have an apartment. Saudi Arabia was my home, I had good friends out there both Saudi and western and that was home to me, as much home as anywhere has ever been for me, so I haven't gone home, I haven't gone back to Canada simply because the majority of my family are over here, my friends, other prisoners I am working with are in the U.K.It sounds rather odd, but London is the perfect place for me to come to recover from what I've been through, to fit myself back into society. I'm a bit more anonymous in the British media than I would be in the Canadian media and that's allowed me to do things at my own pace, to move around a very, very friendly, and very, very big city.What did you learn about the human spirit?That's a question I'm going to be answering for a long, long, long time, and in many different ways, that there is a part of you that, no matter what they do to you, they can't own. They can break you, they can put you through so much pain you wish to die,  that they can make you say things, and do things, because you are afraid of the pain  but somewhere in the middle of that, somewhere deep down in the bottom, there is buried a part of you that they can never get, that they can never have, that your true freedom that you have, the only true freedom you have, is in that place, and it's in your mind.And you have to, whenever you're in the sort of situation that I was in, you have to find that part of yourself, find that place, and reach in there for the strength, because that's where you'll find it. They can not completely take over who you are, they can't destroy who you are, without killing you. And that is what you have to work on in a situation like I was in.Tormented and tortured, the two friends Saudi police forced to implicate one-other are reunited in London.William Sampson was just one of seven expatriates arrested following the Saudi car bombings. His friend Sandy Mitchell, a medical worker, was also forced to confess on Saudi television. Mitchell had also run one of the underground clubs that served alcohol to westerners in Riyadh. Prior to their arrest, the two had helped expatriates who were in trouble with the law.Sampson saw Mitchell twice while he was in prison. Once was on the day he was released. But Sampson also saw him much earlier, when his guards forced him to watch Sandy Mitchell being interrogated.Bill Sampson said the moment that distressed him most was watching you being beaten, and not being able to do anything about it.Well, we're close. We've been friends since the Remembrance Day service in 1998. The year Matthew was born.That's right. I was at his son's christening with a hangover.We've been friends ever since. We just clicked; automatic friends. And I if I had seen what they were doing to William that would have distressed me even more. But I didn't find out the degree to which he was tortured until he was released and he told me what had happened to him.Now that you know his whole story, given your own experience, what do you think of him?He's a good friend. I know the kind of person Dr. Sampson is. He's a good man. He's one of those people who goes out of his way to help people. We're both like that. We visited people who were in prison in SA, anyone who had a problem we tried to help them, that's the sort of people we are. We're not violent people, we're not the kind of characters that the Saudi media are saying we are.What about the reverse. What do you think of Sandy Mitchell?There is nothing that they could have done to me that would have changed my opinion of Sandy Mitchell. It's as simple as that. They may have tried to break the bonds of friendship, they may have tried to turn us against each other, and they will do it by pain, they will break you. No matter how long it takes, they will break you, and you would confess that your own mother was a mad bomber if they wanted you to.But that doesn't change, it never changed my feelings towards Sandy. And it never could, he's a good friend and a good man. They never got there, they couldn't break that, because I knew that they could make me do or say anything, but what they couldn't do was change my mind at the bottom of these things.If our friendship was damaged in any way, then they would have won, and they haven't won. We're still friends. We're still innocent. I'm a member of the medical profession, I cannot go back to my profession until I clear my name.I'm in pretty much the same boat. I operate as a professional. Whenever I have to fill in a job application, I have to make a statement about whether or not I have a criminal record. I'm an innocent man, but I've got a conviction for murder.So what has to happen now?The Saudi government has got to realize that they made a mistake. That's all I'm asking for. "Sorry Sandy, we've made a mistake, it happens." Fine, that's good enough for me. And then I can go back to my life, I can try and pick up what's left of my life, I can try and support my family again. I would like to try and go back to saving lives, which I used to do. But I can't do that, I've been stripped of everything, my career, my reputation, my dignity. I've got to have redress, I have to have my name back again, I have to be able to look people in the eye.Redress for you is as simple as an apology?An apology would be acceptable. We all make mistakes. That's all I'm asking. Just give me my name back. Let me go back to my profession.Is that enough for you?No, I'm probably a little bit harder on that score.It is not enough for me to see that the Saudi Arabian government apologizes to me. I want to see some form of redress for all of the others in Saudi Arabia; I want to see that the other people who are improperly incarcerated in Saudi Arabian prisons are remembered. And that there is someone out there who is investigating and putting pressure on the government to reform their system to give these people justice.William Sampson is working with Sandy Mitchell and the other prisoners and considering their legal options.As for the Saudi government, it says torture is illegal and if it happened, those responsible will be punished.The Saudi ambassador to Britain declined an interview but has said the prisoners were well-treated.As for Sampson, would he ever return?If I felt that there had been a sufficient reform in the legal regime that exists in Saudi Arabia, I wouldn't have any problems going back there. I wouldn't necessarily have a reason for going back there, I certainly wouldn't be interested in going back there to work, but again I'd have no problems going back there to visit, because I still find it a fascinating place.For now, though, William Sampson will remain here in London trying to mend his mind and heal his body. He did tell us, though, that he plans to visit Canada later this month to see family and personally thank those who helped him through his ordeal. I became very well aware that if they were going to do anything to me now, they wanted to do it by legitimate means, that they were terrified of my actually dying in anything other than a prescribed execution. And given that my cardiovascular system had decided to quit on me, or damn near quit on me in March, I was obviously in a relatively fragile state. I saw that as a weapon I could use. I realized that they probably weren't going to be able to put me through the same kind of brutality they had in the first few days. If they did, they would kill me.I had already come to the conclusion by this stage that they were going to make a show trial out of this  I wasn't getting out of here  that there would be a show trial, but to save face, to show their steel to the increasingly dissident fundamentalist factions in their own society, that the Saudis would execute at least one of us as an example of their willingness to clamp down on terrorists, and their willingness to deal with foreigners who violate their laws.I wasn't married, I'd had good innings, and if I could set myself up to be the fall guy, if I could set myself up to be the one that they take out, then I was fairly certain that my friends would be pardoned as a show of their generosity, as a show of the Saudi generosity. I thought to myself it might as well be me. I'll make myself as unpalatable to them as possible, I'll commit whatever I can which lines me up for whatever they want to throw at me. And I'll give them as much stress back as they've caused me in the process.That really began to happen in August of 2001 and, as I said, it wasn't an overnight process, so that by the end of 2002, for instance, I was sleeping on a blanket on a concrete floor.You did a lot more than sleeping on a concrete floor.