March 8, 2019. Independent candidate for Warringah Zali Steggall, former PM Tony Abbott and Labor candidate for Warringah Dean Harris take part in a debate on key federal election issues. Mr Abbott and Ms Steggall clash over the cost of renewable energy, with Ms Steggall at one point saying "would you mind" in an effort to quiet Mr Abbott. Ms Steggall says Mr Abbott's contention that renewables are only cheaper "when the wind blows" is "ludicrous". (AAP Video/Michael Wade)

"Would you mind?": Abbott and Steggall clash over climate

Tony Abbott finally came face-to-face with his challenger in Warringah, former Olympian Zali Steggall, during a pre-election debate this morning.

It didn’t take long for the tension to boil over.

The debate started with a discussion of the Northern Beaches Tunnel, an infrastructure project Mr Abbott has made the centrepiece of his campaign.

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Ms Steggall said she still had press clippings from 1994, when the tunnel was first promised to voters.

“The overwhelming issue for the electorate is to get some action. Action that people can actually truly believe in. And to feel represented, that there is actually a voice in parliament that actually cares about the concerns of the electorate and intends to represent those concerns,” she said.

“Are you in favour of the tunnel?” Mr Abbott interjected.

“I am in favour of the tunnel Mr Abbott, in fact. Because I know your lying advertising has been misrepresenting my position,” Ms Steggall said.

“I am in fact in favour of the tunnel, but what we do want to hear is a business case, because Infrastructure Australia still lists the project as a 10-15 year long term plan.”

“So you’re in favour of it if the business case pans out,” Mr Abbott said.

“No, I’m in favour of it and I want to make sure the Australian people, and the electorate, are not sold a dud,” she replied.

“So you think it might be a dud?” said Mr Abbott, interrupting her again.

“Would you like to let me finish?” Ms Steggall shot back.

“It has to be future proof. We don’t want another cross-city tunnel disaster, that has no financial model, that basically the people of the electorate are left paying and subsidising something that doesn’t work.”

Federal Election – Tony Abbott vs Zali Steggall A new challenger has entered the ring to claim the seat of Warringah from conservative liberal Tony Abbott. Former Olympian Zali Steggall hopes to too use a grassroots campaign as an independent candidate for the coveted seat.

The debate’s moderator, Sky News political editor David Speers, then threw back to Mr Abbott for his reaction.

“Isn’t that fair enough?” he asked.

The former prime minister started to answer, but this time Ms Steggall interrupted him.

“Can I just say, this tunnel needs to take into account clean, future public transport. It’s the main issue the people of Warringah want to see,” she said.

“So you would rather see what, cleaner public transport, than a tunnel like this?” Speers asked.

“No. The whole point is cleaner public transport using the tunnel, so that in fact we have efficient transport from the beaches, through the electorate,” Ms Steggall replied.

“But you want to make sure the numbers stack up on that,” he clarified.

“Well, who wouldn’t?” she said.

At that point Mr Abbott finally got to jump back in.

“Tony Abbott, what’s wrong with that approach, making sure it all stacks up?” Speers asked.

“Look, it just has to go ahead. It just has to go ahead,” Mr Abbott said.

“This is a necessary investment in the amenity of an area which has been neglected by state and federal Labor governments for far too long.”

When it was put to Mr Abbott that he had been the local member for a quarter of a century, he said he needed the “coincidence” of having Liberal governments at state and federal level at the same time before the tunnel project could go ahead.

“These projects don’t happen overnight. I wish they happened quicker, but as you know, a project of this magnitude requires an enormous amount of preparation.”

Spare a thought for the other candidates on stage — Labor’s Dean Harris, the Greens’ Kristyn Glanville and independent Susan Moylan-Coombs — who observed that entire opening exchange in silence before they got to say anything.

The truth is, they are all on the periphery of Warringah’s politics. It is very much a one-on-one battle between Mr Abbott and Ms Steggall.

Mr Abbott has accused his main rival of pretending to be a Liberal-leaning independent, telling voters a vote for Ms Steggall would mean a vote for Bill Shorten.

She used the debate as an opportunity to differentiate herself from both major parties.

“The reality is you’re both wrong,” she told Mr Abbott and Mr Harris, who were seated either side of her, during a debate about congestion.

“People do not want more cars on the road. They want better access,” Ms Steggall said.

“From the millenials’ generation down, they are not interested in car ownership. Their major priority is to open the way for cleaner sources of transport.

“The reality is, there needs to be a tunnel to create that access. It’s very disappointing to hear that essentially there is no proposal put forward by Labor when it comes to the area.”

As the debate moved on to energy, Mr Abbott was asked whether he supported taxpayer subsidies for new coal-fired power stations.

“I’ve never said there should be a taxpayer funded coal-fired power station. I think we do need more baseload power in the system,” Mr Abbott said.

“Why not coal-fired power? Because coal-fired power remains the cheapest form of reliable baseload power.

“I’ve been accused of being against renewables. I’m all in favour of renewables, provided they’re economic, and what we need to do is wind down the subsidies for renewables, which are driving up prices for consumers and making the whole system less reliable.”

Mr Abbott suggested Snowy 2.0 could consider investing in coal-fired power.

At that point Malcolm Turnbull chimed in on Twitter — you may have heard, he and Mr Abbott have a bit of a thing — to subtly call his former colleague an idiot.

But it isn’t. Today the cheapest form of new dispatchable or base load energy is renewables plus storage. We are now able to have lower emissions and lower prices but we need to plan it using engineering & economics rather than ideology and innumerate idiocy — Malcolm Turnbull (@TurnbullMalcolm) March 7, 2019

Ms Steggall said Mr Abbott’s thought about Snowy 2.0 was “absolutely not” a good idea.

“To suggest there is an economic argument about new coal-fired power is so ridiculous. It ignores the market, it ignores our financial institutions, who have all pointed out that the energy of the future is renewables. Coal is not economical,” she said.

“There is no doubt that it still plays a part in our energy mix, and it needs to be a gradual evolution, and a gradual retirement of coal.”

The pair engaged in another heated back-and-forth as they debated which form of energy was the cheapest to produce.

“The reality is, the cheapest form of production of power is renewables, Mr Abbott,” Ms Steggall said.

“Not 24/7. When the wind blows it’s cheap,” he said.

“That is the most ludicrous argument that gets touted all the time, the intermittency,” she said.

“Well let’s abolish all the subsidies then,” Mr Abbott interjected, a grin on his face.

“Would you mind?” she shot back. “The reality is, the electorate actually want to hear, and these people want to hear the reality.”

Notably, Mr Abbott walked back his calls for the government to withdraw Australia from the Paris climate agreement, saying “circumstances have changed”.

“Look, I certainly thought a few months ago that the only way to break the emissions obsession was to pull out of Paris,” he said.

“I think the government has lost its emissions obsession, now that Angus Taylor is the energy minister, so I don’t think it is now necessary.”

He said he was confident Australia could meet its Paris emission reduction target of 26-28 per cent by 2030 without causing significant damage to the economy.

Ms Steggall said Australia should cut its emissions by far more than that, and in fact, by even more than Labor’s target of 45 per cent. She flagged a target of 60 per cent by 2030.

She said that target would not harm the economy, but would instead lead to a “boom”.

“It means that we as a country will be focused on new industries and new technologies, we will be looking to the future,” she said.

On another topic, Mr Abbott said he still believed the immigration rate needed to come down, and the government was taking “sensible” steps to achieve that goal.

“This is not a tap that you can turn on and off just like that, but yes, it’s turning the tap to reduce flow, so to speak,” he said.

“We are an immigrant country. That’s good. But I think we do need a substantial reduction in immigration, at least until housing and infrastructure have caught up.”

He said the immigration rate should be halved from its current level.

Ms Steggall said she didn’t think she would “go quite as far as what he’s suggesting”, but there was broad agreement between them on the issue.

“There is a concern that immigration levels are too high in relation to the level of infrastructure and investment, it’s not keeping up,” she said.

Ms Steggall also joined Mr Abbott in slamming Labor’s franking credit policy, which the government has nicknamed the “retiree tax”.

“I think it’s an absolutely appalling proposal by Labor,” she said.

“For the last 10 years, both Labor and Liberal governments have encouraged the Australian people to not only work hard and pay your taxes, but set yourself up for a self-funded retirement.”

She slapped down Mr Harris when he tried to interject.

“Just a minute, I’m finishing Dean,” Ms Steggall said.

“You are now saying to them, thanks for paying all your taxes for all those years. And now by the way, we are going to absolutely stick you in your retirement so that you are now in a position where you’re not flexible. You’ve made your investment strategy, and you will now lose your income.”

Mr Abbott said the only way to “stop Labor’s big new taxes” was to vote Liberal.

“Someone like Zali will always do a deal with Labor to let their taxes through,” he said.

“Doesn’t sound like she’ll do a deal with us on this Tony,” Mr Harris joked.

The debate ended with Speers asking Ms Steggall which side she would support to form government in the event of a hung parliament.

She indicated she would make the decision based on climate policy.

“Sounds like you’d side with Labor,” Speers said.

“Well no, I have hopes that the Coalition are going to see the error of their ways and come to the table on climate,” Ms Steggall said.