The topic was the recent release of the torture memos. On one side, Ari Fleischer, who wondered aloud if the declassifying of state secrets opens a Pandora's Box of prosecution, one that sets a precedent for the next administration to investigate every evil Obama will commit (because in Fleischer's twisted view, every president must commit at least one human rights violation per term as a matter of course).

On the other side, Paul Begala, feisty Clintonite-cum-CNN's token Democrat, who said a lot of good things about how Obama was compelled, by a lawsuit, to release the torture memos - and how it must be a change of pace for Ari to experience a president who actually bent to the will of the law.

Which was a nice little zinger - but not the main course.

Credit (very little credit, but credit nonetheless) must go to Anderson Cooper, who pressed Fleischer on the question of torture. See, the whole interview, Fleischer squirmed around the issue of actually acknowledging torture took place. He referred to waterboarding as an 'advanced interrogation technique', for instance. To which Cooper responded to the effect of, "If waterboarding isn't torture, why did the CIA destroy evidence of it?"

Fleischer's reply, verbatim: "The CIA destroys lots of things. That's what they do."

He then went on to state that he didn't believe waterboarding was torture. It was close, but it wasn't torture - and therefore, Bush was not lying when he said "We do not torture".

Enter Paul Begala. I wish I could find the video to show you because this was fucking classic:

BEGALA: We -- our country executed Japanese soldiers who water- boarded American POWs. We executed them for the same crime that we are now committing ourselves. How do you defend that?

Thus ensued a good five seconds of the most satisfying awkward television silence I have ever experienced in my young life.

To Mr. Begala: kudos, sir. Kudos.



Update: Wow! My first rec! Now I really do have to find that video. I am anxious.

Update 2 (thanks to Partially Impartial):

Link

COOPER: Do you believe that it did work in this case, as the vice president has -- as Vice President Cheney has indicated? FLEISCHER: No, again, Anderson, your premise is that it is torture. And I think the only people who can determine that are people from the Department of Justice. COOPER: But it's interesting, though... FLEISCHER: If it is torture, if it is torture... (CROSSTALK) COOPER: ... when the Khmer Rouge did it, when the Khmer Rouge did it at Tuol Sleng prison, and you can go there, and you can see the instruments they used to water-board people, I mean, we labeled it as torture. FLEISCHER: And, Anderson, that's why I said the only people who are in a position to make an authoritative judgment on it should be career, independent-minded people at the Department of Justice, without anybody at the White House interfering or anybody else interfering. And then, if they decide it was, then they have got a very careful decision to make about how far and extensive do you prosecute people. Is it the people who did it? Is it the Democrats and Republicans on Capitol Hill who were briefed on it and didn't object to it? And who in the administration would you have to apply that standard to? This is where this whole thing can go. But, going back to the memo, and going back to bipartisanship, you know, it's not just the Bush people who said it was wrong to release that memo. Bill Clinton's head of the CIA said it was wrong to release those memos, because you're teaching al Qaeda operatives exactly what our techniques are. And why do we want anybody in al Qaeda to know what the limits of our techniques are, Paul? BEGALA: The techniques that -- the techniques that we no longer use, the techniques that were in "The New York Review of Books" and half of the newspapers and magazines in North America, Ari. I mean, it is... FLEISCHER: Paul, it was your administration's head of the CIA who objected to the release of those memos. BEGALA: It doesn't -- it doesn't make... FLEISCHER: It's a Clinton official who said that. BEGALA: It doesn't make him right. Torture is always wrong, Ari. We executed... FLEISCHER: I agree with you that torture is always wrong. BEGALA: Excuse me for talking while you're interrupting. (CROSSTALK) COOPER: Let Paul finish. BEGALA: We -- our country executed Japanese soldiers who water- boarded American POWs. We executed them for the same crime that we are now committing ourselves. How do you defend that? FLEISCHER: Well, again, Paul, I guess you already are the jury, the prosecutor, the judge, and a citizen all rolled into one. You have already pronounced judgment that it is a crime. So, if it is a crime, my question goes back to. Which Democrat members of Congress who sat in on the briefings, were authorized, were told about it, while -- particularly at a time when the Democrats had the majority in the Senate, would you say need to be prosecuted, Paul? BEGALA: Here's the thing. Ari, you think it's a political issue. And, so, you say, well, Democrats knew, or George Tenet said this, and he used to be a Democrat. And... (CROSSTALK) FLEISCHER: Because the only people you want to blame, Paul, are Republicans. BEGALA: Again, excuse me for trying to make a point here. FLEISCHER: That's why. BEGALA: No, no, no. FLEISCHER: The only people you want to blame are the Bush administration. BEGALA: I just said a moment ago -- I just said a moment ago, if -- if George Tenet, who was head of the CIA when I was in the White House, if he says this, he's wrong, too.

Gotta love how the pubs always try to make doing the right thing a partisan issue.

Update 3 (thanks to shiggityx2):

Sweetness starts at 3:06. Savour it.