Engaging with Suffering, Realizing Freedom: An Interview with Ven. Pomnyun Sunim

By Craig Lewis with photos by Jihea Kim | | Buddhistdoor Global

Korean Seon (Zen) master Venerable Pomnyun Sunim* (법륜스님) wears many hats: Buddhist monk, Dharma teacher, author, environmentalist, social activist, and podcaster to name a few. Since entering the monkhood as a novice in 1969 and being fully ordained in 1991, Pomnyun Sunim has never been one to shrink from a challenge or shun adversity. He has founded and led numerous initiatives and movements founded on the Buddha’s teaching to respect all living beings, including ecological awareness campaigns, promoting human rights and world peace, and the eradication of famine, disease, and illiteracy. He has been a tireless voice on the dangers of environmental degradation, and against societies and lifestyles based on overconsumption, and has engaged in humanitarian and human rights efforts at home and internationally. In 1988, he founded the Jungto Society, a volunteer-run humanitarian organization that aspires to embody the Buddhist teachings through social engagement and by promoting a simpler lifestyle in which people consume less. The Jungto Society seeks to address the problems and crises of modern society by applying a Buddhist world view of the interconnectedness of all things and the principal that everyone can find happiness through Buddhist practice and active participation in social movements. Pomnyun Sunim has actively engaged with North Korea for many years, campaigning for peace and supporting North Korean refugees through the provision of clothing, food, and medicine. In the wake of a crackdown on such aid efforts by the Chinese government, which resulted in the detention of Jungto members, the organization now focuses on assisting North Korean defectors already settled in South Korea, providing counseling, and guiding them on cultural and social acclimatization. A regular speaker at public venues such as community centers, libraries, universities, and churches, Pomnyun Sunim is renowned for his sharp and insightful Dharma dialogues, offered free of charge and expressed in simple layman’s terms, with the aim of sharing his Dharmic message of happiness and freedom with people from all walks of life, backgrounds, ages, and religious affiliations. He extends his reach to audiences and practitioners across the globe through YouTube videos and podcasts. Pomnyun Sunim has also had a major impact through his numerous books and written commentaries, which include The Harmony of Work and Buddhist Practice, Class for Mothers, Commentaries I and II on the Diamond Sutra, Looking for Happiness in the World – In Search of a Hopeful Paradigm for Society, and A Treatise for Young Buddhist Practitioners. In recognition of his invaluable humanitarian achievements, Pomnyun Sunim was a 2002 recipient of the Ramon Magsaysay Award for Peace and International Understanding, which has been called the “Asian Nobel Peace Prize.” Buddhistdoor Global: Sunim, many of our readers will already know you as an outspoken advocate of socially engaged Buddhism and the founder of the Jungto Society, the Join Together Society, Good Friends, and The Peace Foundation, among others. Could you describe what first drew you to Buddhism and motivated you to become a monk? Venerable Pomnyun Sunim: Growing up, I actually wanted to become a scientist. There was a Buddhist temple next to my school and during my first year of high school the monk in the temple recommended that I become a monk. I rejected his offer at the time because I thought that religious leaders weren’t very realistic—in Christianity it’s taught that a baby was born to a virgin mother, while in Buddhism there’s a story that a child was born who stood up immediately afterwards. Religions often ask people to believe these kinds of stories, but I couldn’t believe them. If they were intended as symbolic messages, I could understand, but there’s a tendency for religious leaders to make people take these kinds of tales literally. I didn’t have any trust in those stories, so I told him that while I was happy visiting the temple, I didn’t want to become a monk. One day, near the end of the school year, I was preparing for my exams so I went to the temple to pray to the Buddha hoping to get good results. Because the monk was a great talker I usually tried to avoid him while I was preparing for my exams, but he saw me that day and called me over. “Where did you come from?” the monk asked me, and I replied that I had just come from school. Then the monk said, “No, before that, where did you come from?” And I replied that I had been at home. So the monk went on, “No, no, before you were at home, where were you?” He continued asking these questions until I finally had to answer that I had come from my mother’s womb. And once more the monk responded, “No, before that!” And I replied, “I don’t know . . .” And then the monk asked me: “Well, where are you going?” And I replied that I was on my way to the library. “And after that?” he asked. I said I would go home. “And after that . . . ?” Eventually, after many questions, I told the monk: “I’ll die.” And so the monk asked, “And after that?” And I replied, “I have no idea . . .” Suddenly the monk shouted at me: “Well why are you so busy if you don’t even know where you’re from or where you’re going?!” That gave me a big shock and I was speechless for a moment. Then I asked him, “Is there anyone who knows the answers to those questions?” And he replied, “Everyone should know.” So I asked him, “How can I know the answer?” And the monk replied, “Come and live with me at the temple.” And that’s how I ended up becoming a monk!

BDG: The Buddhist path is often framed as a very personal, internal journey of insight and realization. In your view, how does this internal practice translate into outward action, especially as manifested by engaged Buddhism? VPS: Most people don’t live their lives on their own, based on their own strength. Other animals, such as squirrels or rabbits, live according to their own strengths and abilities, but humans tend not to. People often ask for help—from other people, or from God. That’s why people complain and are often in pain, because they’re always asking for help and when help doesn’t come they start to suffer. And that’s how they begin blaming other people. Many people assume there is an almighty God who will listen to their wishes—that’s how they pray, to some kind of mighty force. This makes people feel dependent on God for their lives, and they lack the strength to live for themselves. So the first thing people need to do is to learn how to become independent beings. If rabbits and squirrels can do it, then so can humans! People’s suffering often originates in their own greed and desires. When they learn to let go of their desires, then there’s no need to pray to God. People need help not because they’re weak or inferior, but because they are greedy; they have unfulfilled desires. The first cause of suffering lies in desire. The second problem is the ego—thinking “I am right,” or anger arising from the thought that “I am right.” The third problem is ignorance, which turns a blind eye to the truth. These are the true causes of our suffering—not because we are inferior beings. But we can help people lift themselves out of suffering by helping them realize these causes of suffering. When people study the Buddhadharma, they can lift themselves out of suffering. The majority of people use their energy giving themselves a hard time, but when they need to they can convert that energy into helping others. When they begin to help the hungry, then they start to care about people or children in hunger-stricken countries, when in the past they only cared about their own children. They also start caring about the environment. Then their lives begin to change from “I want to get help from society” to “I want to help to society;” there’s a shift in perception. The easiest way to help society is to give money. Giving time, volunteering is a little more difficult. That’s how we encourage people to engage and do something for a good cause. Then people will find themselves confronted with questions about what aspects of society they want to change. The easiest way is to help those in need. The second way is to do something to mitigate environmental degradation. A more advanced level is to engage in peace activities, because this has a political aspect. The word peace is a neutral term, but when people begin engaging in peace activities, it becomes a political issue, which makes it a little more difficult. The next step is to advocate for civil rights, for example encouraging people to vote and making them realize that we are the masters and owners of our countries—not the presidents or politicians, who are the public servants to whom we delegate the right to govern. One of the main teachings of Buddhism is that we reap what we sow. There is a cause when something happens, and there are conditions that dictate the effects: the effects will come when the cause meets certain conditions. It is really important when we sow seeds to be mindful of what kind of seeds they are. But the conditions under which the seeds are sown are also important. Sowing seeds can be compared to the internal practice of individuals, while environmental conditions, including soil, moisture, and temperature, can be compared to the environment in society. The results come when the seeds meet the soil. If one aspect is ignored, then the result will not be good. If people think only internal practice is important, it is similar to focusing on the seed, while ignoring the nutrition of the soil. In other words, social environment and internal practice go hand in hand. That is the essence of the Buddhist teaching. However religions tend to focus on only one aspect, and can go to extremes because of this tendency. In social movements, people often focus on changing the structure of society while ignoring internal practice. But the Buddha taught that those two aspects should go hand in hand; they cannot be separated. About 2,600 years ago, the Buddha made a statement like this, but over the years Buddhism has changed and many people focus only on the internal aspect while ignoring the environmental aspect. I believe we should go back to the true meaning of the Buddha’s teaching; not Buddhism in terms of religion, nor in terms of philosophy, but back to the religion in terms of the practice and lifting ourselves out of suffering. It’s not about knowledge, it’s not about belief, it’s about realizing the truth so that we can move toward attaining Nirvana. At the same time, we can’t help but move in the direction of changing society for the better. In modern terminology this can be called engaged Buddhism, but I don’t believe that engaged Buddhism is a new concept—it’s already there in the teachings. We should go back to practicing engaged Buddhism as taught by the Buddha 2,600 years ago. That is why I help people to lift themselves out of suffering. But we cannot stop there—once we are out of suffering, we should act to help other people out of their own suffering. The first step is to share the Buddha’s teachings with other people. There are people who don’t have the opportunity to listen to the teachings and we need to improve the social environment so that more people can learn: if people are hungry, they should be fed; if they’re sick, they should receive medical care; if children are uneducated they should be given the opportunity to go to school; if there is discrimination based on race or gender, then they should be protected. This is the principal behind my activities.