Welcome to part 5 of a 7 part series in which I interview author, teacher, healer, and Astral Projection Master Robert Bruce.

In this series of articles you’re going to find out everything you’ve ever wanted to know about Astral Projection, OBE (Out of Body Experiences), Kundalini, and much, much more.

In this article:

Let’s begin:

The Secret to Astral Projection

Robert Bruce: There is a secret to astral projection and lucid dreaming which nobody seems to know about.

The secret to astral projection and lucid dreaming is to begin to interact with the intelligence behind the environment, which is always there around you when you are dreaming or astral projecting.

This is the secret to astral projection and lucid dreaming, and it is the most important thing you can ever do with astral projection.

There is an intelligence behind everything you see, good, bad, or ugly, and if you understand that, you can start to interact with it. And typically this is how you cure problems like astral blindness or poor astral vision.

You need to make commands in the Astral

Michael Frank: How does one go about communicating with the intelligence behind the environment?

Robert Bruce: By making commands. Whenever you are out of the body or in the lucid dreaming state, make commands.

Sometimes when people project out of their body they find they can’t see, they’re blind, it’s totally dark, or their eyesight is really bad. It’s like having a couple of shot glasses over your eyes, you can make out some shadows and stuff, but it’s really bad. Or it’s like you’re squinting out of a tiny corner of one eye, and everything’s really, really dim.

However if this happens you can make a simple command which reflects visual light such as:

“Give me light now!”

Or

“Light now!”

Or

“There is light around me!”

And it’s like someone suddenly turns on a switch, and the light comes on and everything is immediately well lit.

Or if your vision is bad you can say:

“Clarity now!”

Or

“I see clearly!”

And your vision will instantly correct itself, and everything will suddenly clarify and come into focus.

You don’t have to say please or thank you or anything else. Just keep it very short, very direct and descriptive. This is the beginning of how you interact with the intelligence behind the environment, and as you start to interact more with the intelligence behind the environment, you can get to the point where you can start using that intelligence to move around.

You can say:

“Take me to the Eiffel Tower!”

And you’ll find that a force moves you there.

Or you can say take me to a particular person:

“Take me to John!”

And you may find you instantly shift there, and suddenly John’s in front of you.

I actually think that these anomalies and some of the weird things that happen to people when they astral project are by design, because there is no other way to fix these problems other than by making commands, to start talking and communicating with the intelligence behind the environment.

And you also have to ask yourself:

What is it that turns the lights on?

What is it that fixes your vision when you make a simple command?

And often people with no personal experience will say “Oh that’s my spirit guides doing that!” Well how do you know that? What experience do you base that on? “Oh, it’s obvious, isn’t it?” No it’s not obvious at all, because in my experience, most people do not have spirit guides. Not in the sense that it’s commonly believed. Some people, a minority, do have spirits associated with them that fit the bill as being a spirit that offers guidance to people, but human beings are not born with spirit guides, as is commonly believed.

I’ve never encountered any being that has fitted the bill of “spirit guide” for me. And I’ll tell you what. I used to be a Christian spiritualist for decades, and I really, really looked and went hunting in the astral every minute expecting my spirit guides to appear and I’ve seen nothing.

What is the best way to spend time in the astral?

Michael Frank: When one consciously astral projects, you can do all kinds of things: You can fly, go underwater, walk through walls, go to different worlds or dimensions.

My question is: What is the highest and best use of your time in the astral?

Robert Bruce: Well I spent many years exploring my limits to see what I could do and just having a lot of fun. And then I started using it for healing and helping people and that’s been my major focus for many years now. But the most important thing during this process, when you’re out there exploring and having fun, is to start interacting with the intelligence behind the environment.

I cannot emphasize the importance of interacting with the intelligence behind the environment enough.

The Astral planes

Michael Frank: What is, and where is, the Astral realm?

Robert Bruce: The Astral realm is not a particular place. It is here and now occupying the same space as we are occupying now. It bears no relationship to the real world. It’s quite different.

As you start to explore the astral, you’ll find that the astral dimension is laid out like the pages in a book. You literally have seven astral planes stacked on top of each other with a buffer zone area between them.

I know that because if you enter it in just the right way, you can actually perceive these layers, and as you pass up through these layers, you can observe the surface skins as I call them, for want of a better term. I had to make up some terminology to cover these things.

I’ve passed up and down through the different layers of the astral dimensions and I’ve got to see the surface skins multiple times. They have geometric patterns on them, and they have horizontal and vertical grid lines going in two directions. It resembles a database. So you end up with an infinite number of identical squares highlighted by the grid lines in all directions. And if you go down and get closer to them, you’ll find that these squares which may look small from a great height, are actually really large, many kilometers across.

I find that depending on what position you’re in when you pass through that particular square of the surface skin, will take you to a different part of that dimensional level of that particular astral plane. So if you pass through the jewel in the center of the fifth Astral plane it will take you to the highest level of the fifth Astral plane, or if you get it dead center, it may even transport you to the 7th Astral plane which is the highest. However if you just go through the blue area, and most of it is blue, that will just take you into the general fifth level.

As you go up through these levels, you’ll find that things change. The lower Astral planes, the first, second and third, are usually brown colored and very barren. It’s like you’re looking at a desert world with just a few rocks and a few little bits of grass, there’s almost nothing there.

Then when you get up to the fourth Astral plane which is where most people go when they sleep, it’s like a gigantic shopping mall with these huge corridors and every hundred meters or so it turns into a park. And then there’s a bit of city. It’s like a jigsaw. Imagine if you took photographs of different parts of cities, beaches, parks and shopping malls and just jumbled them all up and made a collage of them. You’ve essentially just made a map of the forth Astral plane which doesn’t make any sense whatsoever.

You could say that this is created by the minds of the people that are in these areas, and the people in them are usually obsessed with whatever they’re doing, which is generally walking around and shopping. You can’t really make a lot of sense out of people by talking to them there, they’re very one to two dimensional. There’s no depth to them. When you talk to a human being they can tell you where they are, what they’re doing, what they were doing yesterday, they have a history etc.

But people in the 4th Astral plane, all they know is that there’s a big sale on, and they’ve go to get the store ready, and that’s all they know, and it’s all they will talk about. That’s what it’s like talking to people in these areas. It’s like you’re in a gigantic 50% off sale in the city. Stores are jam packed with people and everyone’s fighting to get this and that. That’s kind of what it’s like in the lower levels.

By the way it’s pretty typical when you enter the astral realm for the people there to act like you’re really being rude, as if you’re annoying and distracting them. It’s like they look at you and shake their heads in annoyance and walk away and ignore you. You will occasionally get a comment from them, but it’s pretty rare for them to pay you any attention. They can definitely see you though because they look at you as if to say “here’s another one” (eye roll) go away please we’re busy.

Now if you go above that to the much more rarefied 5th Astral plane, and if you look at the rear cover of my book Astral Dynamics you’re looking at the surface skin of the 5th Astral plane, and that’s when it starts becoming a lot more interesting.

You’ve now gone out of the confusing riff raff. The fifth Astral plane is a lot more interesting and serene. It makes my jaw drop. It’s one of the most beautiful things I’ve ever seen. You’ve got this royal blue and this gorgeous golden flower in the center laying on a fish pond. And in the center of the flower you’ve got this beautiful violet jewel.

Each astral plane has a myriad, an infinite number of astral realms and little realities built into it. I don’t even pretend to understand the complexity of it.

Above the astral planes you’ve got the mental dimension where all dreaming occurs. It’s like the Astral dimensions, you’ve got the seven planes of existence there, but it’s happening at a much higher level, and is much more refined than the Astral.

Which Astral plane do we go to when we project?

Michael Frank: When someone consciously astral projects, what is it that determines which astral plane they go to?

Robert Bruce: Most people seem to automatically project to the 4th astral plane. Usually the big shopping mall scenario is where the bulk of humanity go. I’d say 99.99% of humans automatically project there.

How do you ascend the Astral planes?

Michael Frank: How does one go from the 4th to the 5th to the 6th to the 7th plane when they’re astral projecting? How do we do that?

Robert Bruce: Every astral plane, even the really dull and boring ones, usually has a little bit of structure in the center, it maybe just a couple of rocks, but there will usually be one reasonably attractive looking rock there. If you can pass through it dead center it will take you to the next higher astral plane, but that’s only if you can perceive the astral plane surface skins. And that’s a rare observation.

The only way you’ll normally get to see it is if you have the help of your higher self, which means you need to make commands and give instructions to your higher self.

You don’t have to say please and thank you to your higher self, you just say:

“Take me to the 5th astral plane”

Or

“Show me the surface skin of the 5th astral plane”

Or

“Take me to a higher plane”

Or

“Take me to a higher level”

and you will see it. And if English is your second language, then you should say this in your native tongue.

Can you Astral Project from your Astral body?

Michael Frank: A question from Reddit:

“Can you astral project from your astral body?”

Robert Bruce: I’d have to say yes because, well I’ll put it this way: It’s not so much the astral body, but you can astral project from your dream body. You see a part of the mind split, you can be awake in your physical body mind although paralyzed. You can have an astral projection in progress. So you’re thinking and acting and stuff in the astral body, and there’s two of you.

Your dream mind can become active simultaneously. That’s one, two, three of you existing and functioning simultaneously. That’s the bare bones of the mind split effect. But there are higher mind split effects where you can actually become conscious and functional on multiple levels.

Now often people in the dream state, because their focus has been on astral projecting, will be having a dream that they’re lying in bed doing an astral projection attempt, and everything feels incredibly real, and they feel all the sensations that they would expect to feel during an exit, and everything goes according to plan and the next minute they’re flying around, and I’ve talked to many people that this has happened to, and I’ve done it myself, everything is too perfect. It’s like the astral projection exit symptoms are too perfect, everything’s too smooth, and then you realize at some point that you’re dreaming this astral projection attempt. So there are complexities and cross overs and stuff like that. But no, I don’t think you can astral project from your astral body.

I mean you can definitely shift from one galaxy to another if you wanted to, just through intentional working with your higher self: “Take me to Alpha Centauri!” BOOM. You could be there in seconds. But I think there’s only one Astral body. Maybe it’s possible to have more, but I haven’t come across anything that would lead me to think that.

What is the significance of dreams?

Michael Frank: A question from Reddit: “What is the significance of dreams?”

Robert Bruce: I don’t really have a good answer for that, apart from what is known about dreams. I mean they’re very complicated. Part of dreaming involves processing life events and finding solutions. It’s where the saying “Go home and sleep on it” comes from.

Dreaming is also a survival mechanism, and it’s also needed to process things including painful events. I mean we need to sleep when we have a painful event. Like if I go through a painful event, it may not be bedtime, but I start falling asleep on my feet. Because I find that if you lose a loved one or something like that, it’s really painful and I just want to sleep.

My son was killed many years ago, he was seven years old and he was buried alive in a sand slide during a Christmas party. That’ll do it to you. I got to him just a little bit too late to save him. The absolute worse thing that can happen to any human being is to lose a child like that. After that I slept for a week. I could not stay awake. I’d get up for an hour and I’d be back to sleep again. I just slept and slept and slept. And every time you sleep and dream on it, over a period of time the mind starts to archive and detail some of the feelings that you had, and over a long period of time it starts to heal you and you start to feel better and better and better.

This is part 5 of a 7 part Masterclass on Astral Projection.

This interview has been edited and condensed for clarity.

Robert Bruce is the author of several groundbreaking books: starting with his magnum opus Astral Dynamics (200,000 books sold worldwide), followed by the books: The Psychic Self-Defense Handbook and Energy Work. Robert also coauthored the classic: Mastering Astral Projection: 90 day guide to OBE, and the Mastering Astral Projection CD audio package coauthored with Brian Mercer.

Robert Bruce is a true spiritual pioneer of our times. He has spent his life pondering the big questions and exploring the great mysteries, such as: The Afterlife Experience, the human energy body, the out-of-body experience, Kundalini, psychic security, the nature of nonphysical realities and spirit beings, and how everything fits together in the greater reality.

Robert began having Out of Body experiences at the age of three, and he raised his Kundalini to its full in his early thirties, and many times since. His experience-driven approach, that he calls ‘The Way Of The Master’ has resulted in profound contact with his higher self and the spiritual hierarchy.

Robert Bruce currently resides in Western Australia. He lectures internationally, conducts workshops, and creates video-based training programs, which are available through Astral Dynamics

Find our more about Robert Bruce at Astral Dynamics and on his Astral Dynamics Forum where you will find a wealth of information and free tutorials.

When not writing or lecturing, Robert is often found diving enchanted coral reefs, in deep meditation, or exploring the wild and lonely places in search of Grace.