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Republican incumbent Scott Wagner and Democratic challenger Linda Small showed their differences in a debate between the 28th state senatorial district candidates hosted by the Rotary Club of York at the Yorktowne Hotel on Wednesday.

Candidates vying for the state Senate seat representing the central portion of York County put their differences on display before an audience of York Rotarians on Wednesday.

They showed they differ on what should be done about public employee pension plans, on an extraction tax on gas drillers, and on impact of unions, particularly the Pennsylvania State Education Association, in state policy-making.

Democratic candidate Linda Small makes a point during the 28th state senatorial district debate hosted by the Rotary Club of York as her Republican incumbent opponent Scott Wagner listens. Wagner described himself as a disrupter who is anti-status quo, while Small called her style as more like a constructive disruption.

They also distinguished themselves from each other in how they would approach the job of being the senator of the 28th District.

Republican incumbent Scott Wagner, after proclaiming himself as the state legislator with the most business experience and "knowledge of how the real world operates," told the crowd of more than 150 gathered inside Yorktowne Hotel: "I'm not a status quo person. I'm a disrupter."

Wagner, who is president of York-based Penn Waste and owner of KBS Trucking in Thomasville, boasted how he has broken the Senate's procedural rules three times in the seven months he has served in the Senate since winning a special election as a write-in candidate to fill a seat vacated by the late Mike Waugh.

"I intend to be a senator who will be disruptive," Wagner said, adding his belief that disruption is essential to turning things around and that is what is needed in Harrisburg.

His Democratic opponent, Linda Small, a retired master chief petty officer who served in the Navy for 27 years, responded, "There's constructive disruption and there's disruption."

It's her intention to be the former by working with her fellow senators to accomplish initiatives such as raising the minimum wage to $10.10 an hour.

"If I'm going to go up and break the Senate rules, it's going to be to get that $10.10 minimum wage and it's not going to be for making enemies of the teachers union or workers," Small said.

The following is a summary of the stances the candidates took on some of the issues they were asked about by Rotary members:



How to tackle serious issues facing state government: Wagner said the answer to that is a change in Senate leadership.

"I've watched first-hand for six months how Senate leadership, Republican Senate leadership, is not allowing certain agenda items to get to the floor for a vote. Simply put, we need to change the management team at the top," he said. "When that happens, you're going to see things start moving in Harrisburg."

Small, meanwhile, said, "We need to look at the root causes of our problems and then work together with a true spirit of let's do what's right for our community, for our country."

More money for schools: Wagner answered this question by focusing on the Pennsylvania State Education and how the union drives up the cost of education with its demands for higher salaries and other benefits.

"We need to get the PSEA out of the education system and let the teachers do their jobs and let the school districts operate more efficiently," Wagner said.

Small said the state has harmed school districts by allowing its share of the funding burden slip, on average, to 34 percent, instead of paying half.

As for the PSEA, she said it represents the professional educators who are teaching Pennsylvania's students. She conceded that they have asked for raises but reminded teachers have also given "concessions when the worst of the recession hit."

Saving the state's financially distressed cities: Small condemned the state's unwillingness to help cities out when they ask for assistance. As an example, she said York City's Mayor Kim Bracey was shot down when she asked for permission to levy a tax on alcoholic drinks like Philadelphia has.

"When the mayors of the cities go up and ask for help what I see is a general shoulder shrug," Small said. "The state can do things to help the city and the state needs to. They need to stop saying too bad. We don't have to take accountability for it. We're going to let you guys suffer."

Wagner was less definitive about what he thought should be done. But he blamed prevailing wage as contributing to the problem.

Taxing gas drillers: Small said gas drilling brings with it severe environmental impacts and she thinks it is entirely appropriate to impose a 5 percent extraction tax. Meanwhile, Wagner said gas drillers already pay an impact fee that generates millions of dollars for counties in the Marcellus region. He said at this point, he does not favor an extraction tax.

Pension reform: Both candidates suggested solving this one is simple even though state lawmakers could not coalesce around any reform plan despite a serious effort to find a solution during the past two years.

Wagner said, "It's real simple." Promise everyone in the pension system they will get the benefits they have received thus far but then on Jan. 1, 2016, move everyone into a 401(k) style plan. But the argument that has been raised against that idea is it would be unconstitutional to do that to existing employees.

Small said experts say that idea, as well as other reform plans that have been offered, would cost taxpayers more than keeping the defined benefit plan that state and school employees currently have.

"I know politically that's a tough thing to say but you know what, as a steward of taxpayer dollars, I have to listen to what the experts say and the experts tell us that a defined benefit plan is the best for all of us."

Despite all their differences, the two found one issue they could agree on. Both support keeping the Senate a 50-member body and reducing the size of the 203-member House to a more manageable size of about 150.