• Moeen expected to be fit for third warm-up while Finn’s condition improves • Craig Overton says ‘time is right’ if he is needed to step up into Test team

England were due to begin their Ashes tour on Saturday without Moeen Ali and Steven Finn, and will be without them next week in Adelaide too. Scans showed that Finn’s knee and, perhaps more worryingly, Moeen’s side, require them to miss the second tour game, to be played with the pink Kookaburra ball under lights.

With Moeen so vital, the third and final warm-up, in Townsville before the first Test in Brisbane that begins on 23 November, suddenly shapes as a key game on England’s tour. England are playing 13 this weekend – only Ben Foakes misses out of the fit players – but the next two games, against a Cricket Australia XI, are first-class four-dayers. Given a rest and time with the medical staff, Moeen is expected to be fit for the third, but his injury will vex Trevor Bayliss and his team.

He has been feeling discomfort in recent days, and has suffered side injuries in the past, notably at the 2015 World Cup. Mason Crane – uncapped, only 20 and, as with any leg-spinner, a mighty gamble – is the only other spinner in the squad. Moeen is down to bat at No7 too, and the loss of a second all-rounder would be a severe blow to England’s hopes of retaining the urn.

Initially, England feared the worst with Finn’s injury, picked up batting in the nets on Thursday, but his condition improved sufficiently to remain with the squad over the next week. Then, a decision will be made over whether Finn, who was called up as a replacement for Ben Stokes, stays on his third Ashes tour. Either way, it appears Jake Ball and Craig Overton are the leading contenders for the final seam-bowling spot.

Overton appears at ease on his first Test tour. He has bolted ahead of his richly talented twin brother, Jamie – who has struggled with his fitness – this year, but their rivalry does appear to spur him on. Jamie will travel to Australia over Christmas (perhaps even bowling at England in the nets on the road to fitness).

“He’s happy for me,” said Craig. “We work pretty well together. He’s been through a pretty tough few years and he’s really happy with the way I’ve gone. Hopefully he’ll be following in my footsteps. We were very competitive growing up. As you’ve seen one person gets ahead and the other one sort of overtakes and vice versa. So we’re very competitive and I think that’s very normal for twin brothers. You want to get the best out of each other.”

Overton dreamed of being an all-rounder and fields and bats impressively, admitting that the latter particularly gives him “an edge”. But he is on tour to bowl, and is impressing with his swing and rising pace. “I feel the time is right,” he said. “My game’s progressed really nicely over the last couple of years so hopefully it feels like the right time and I can take my chance if it comes.”

Over those two years he has calmed too, since he found himself in hot water for telling Ashar Zaidi to “fuck off back to your own country” in a County Championship match at Hove. “That was a turning point,” he said, having worked with a psychologist. “I’ve calmed down over the last couple of years and I think what happened has made me realise you can’t go on acting like that. It’s matured me, which I’m really happy with and I’ve moved on from that.”

On the prospect of making a debut at the Gabba, he said: “You can’t be too fearful of it. You’ve got to enjoy it and make sure you make the most it.”

Still, the scale of the task ahead does not appear lost on Overton, perhaps because the pre-Ashes trash-talking is well under way. Joe Root used his press conference at the Waca on Friday to remind Australia and Steve Smith – who has spoken about opening up English “scars”– which team hold the urn.

“There’s been a lot of talk about last time round,” said Root. “We’re a completely different side, and so are they. Of course, they’ll try to bring up all sorts of stuff like that. But we’ve obviously played a lot of cricket since then and have played against Australia as well – and that went quite well for us. So I hope we’ll be able to do the same.”