flycuban

join:2005-04-25

Homestead, FL flycuban Member Own you? I guess verizon feels that they own your device that YOU paid for.

mmay149q

Premium Member

join:2009-03-05

Dallas, TX mmay149q Premium Member Re: Own you? said by flycuban: I guess verizon feels that they own your device that YOU paid for.





Matt Maybe, or maybe it's as simple as not downloading the updates?Matt



MovieLover76

join:2009-09-11

Cherry Hill, NJ MovieLover76 Member Re: Own you? It also fixes the problem with the phone rebooting frequently, I have the phone and I needed this update, not downloading it isn't a good option, better option is to root the phone.

mmay149q

Premium Member

join:2009-03-05

Dallas, TX mmay149q Premium Member Re: Own you? said by MovieLover76: It also fixes the problem with the phone rebooting frequently, I have the phone and I needed this update, not downloading it isn't a good option, better option is to root the phone.





Matt See I have the same phone, and I have it overclocked 900mhz and I don't have this issue at all, is the rebooting due to a over heating issue?Matt



MovieLover76

join:2009-09-11

Cherry Hill, NJ MovieLover76 Member Re: Own you? The rebooting issue was due to the MR1 radio from the last update, though some thunderbolt users were lucky and weren't effected by it as much as others. my phone rebooted every other day or so, twice while i was on a call

mmay149q

Premium Member

join:2009-03-05

Dallas, TX mmay149q Premium Member Re: Own you? Ahh that's probably why I don't have the issue, I rooted my phone the day the option was available, and I have never downloaded any updates at all, just a few 3rd party roms based off the original. I pretty much don't download the VZW updates, I know better O:) unless there's a major issue with the device.



Matt



Hall

MVM

join:2000-04-28

Germantown, OH Hall to MovieLover76

MVM to MovieLover76

said by MovieLover76: The rebooting issue was due to the MR1 radio from the last update... If that's the case, someone will pull the radio out of that update and make it available for install only, leaving out the hotspot-disabling part. This requires a rooted phone, of course.

GLIMMER

join:2004-01-17

Fisher, IL GLIMMER to mmay149q

Member to mmay149q

you mean under clocking it right its got a 1ghz processor

mmay149q

Premium Member

join:2009-03-05

Dallas, TX mmay149q Premium Member Re: Own you? said by GLIMMER: you mean under clocking it right its got a 1ghz processor





Matt Lol no, I overclocked it to 1.9Ghz, the 900Mhz is how much I overclocked itMatt



Lark3po

Premium Member

join:2003-08-05

Madison, AL Lark3po to flycuban

Premium Member to flycuban

said by flycuban: I guess verizon feels that they own your device that YOU paid for.





I personally no longer buy phones on contract for this very reason. I will pay full price for a (unlocked) phone I like and be in total control over what is and what is not on it. If you got a subsidized phone on contract do you really own the phone before the contract terms are met? I ask because I truly don't know.I personally no longer buy phones on contract for this very reason. I will pay full price for a (unlocked) phone I like and be in total control over what is and what is not on it.

hottboiinnc4

ME

join:2003-10-15

Cleveland, OH hottboiinnc4 Member Re: Own you? actually no because they could request the phone back. If you cancel within the first 15-30 days they actually do want the device back. I don't know why VZ wouldn't though. They can resell the device again as "refurb" and make another $60+ off it. After all that's how NEW/Asurion gets their phones.

fiberguy2

My views are my own.

Premium Member

join:2005-05-20 1 recommendation fiberguy2 Premium Member Re: Own you? Once again you fail.



No, the phone IS in fact yours.. contract or not. The moment you strike the deal with Verizon, or any carrier for that matter, the phone is yours. You have agreed to complete a term in trade for the discount on the phone. If you do not complete the term, you are required to pay the ETF but the phone is still yours.



As for your "because they could request the phone back... in the first 15 to 30" etc... that again, too, is wrong. IF you cancel the service in the cool down period then it's not a matter of them "wanting the device back'.. it's a matter of "if you want to cancel the service in that period, you HAVE to give the phone back - period.



Not sure where you get some of your information, but this one is way off the mark.



Just because a phone is discounted doesn't mean they can request the phone back - actually, they could but I'd tell them to pound sand. Discounted or not, the phone belongs to the customer.



amarryat

Verizon FiOS

join:2005-05-02

Marshfield, MA amarryat to Lark3po

Member to Lark3po

said by Lark3po: said by flycuban: I guess verizon feels that they own your device that YOU paid for.





If you got a subsidized phone on contract do you really own the phone before the contract terms are met? I ask because I truly don't know. I would say yes. Because you will have to pay an ETF if you quit early, and they won't get the phone back.



joako

Premium Member

join:2000-09-07

/dev/null 81.9 7.1

joako to Lark3po

Premium Member to Lark3po

said by Lark3po: said by flycuban: I guess verizon feels that they own your device that YOU paid for.





I personally no longer buy phones on contract for this very reason. I will pay full price for a (unlocked) phone I like and be in total control over what is and what is not on it.

If you got a subsidized phone on contract do you really own the phone before the contract terms are met? I ask because I truly don't know.I personally no longer buy phones on contract for this very reason. I will pay full price for a (unlocked) phone I like and be in total control over what is and what is not on it.



The contract is a discount for the phone in exchange for agreeing to have service for X period of time. You own the phone, and there's no reversing that. If you cancel the contract you can't return the phone, you must keep the phone and pay the termination fee, which goes down each month you had the service. Of course you do. I'm not 100% sure about Verizon but with AT&T I could get an iPhone for $200 for signing a contract, never activate the iPhone, sell it on ebay, remove the data plan and not have any issues.The contract is a discount for the phone in exchange for agreeing to have service for X period of time. You own the phone, and there's no reversing that. If you cancel the contract you can't return the phone, you must keep the phone and pay the termination fee, which goes down each month you had the service.

slckusr

Premium Member

join:2003-03-17

Greenville, SC slckusr to flycuban

Premium Member to flycuban

said by flycuban: I guess verizon feels that they own your device that YOU paid for.





At least Verizon has an excuse to lock some things down (tethering does use spectrum, which cost money). Its not just Verizon, Motorola also likes to keep things locked up (bootloaders). This stuff wont change and there arent enough people to get loud enough to make them care.At least Verizon has an excuse to lock some things down (tethering does use spectrum, which cost money).



joako

Premium Member

join:2000-09-07

/dev/null 81.9 7.1

joako Premium Member Re: Own you? said by slckusr: said by flycuban: I guess verizon feels that they own your device that YOU paid for.





At least Verizon has an excuse to lock some things down (tethering does use spectrum, which cost money).

Its not just Verizon, Motorola also likes to keep things locked up (bootloaders). This stuff wont change and there arent enough people to get loud enough to make them care.At least Verizon has an excuse to lock some things down (tethering does use spectrum, which cost money).



With all the carriers going to metered per-MB plans, it's not relevant. If you pay for 2GB of data, it is the same resources for the carrier if you use the data on your phone, on your tethered computer, or on your ass for that matter.



Tethering using more data than accessing the internet on your phone, so the carriers will make more revenue if more users tether. Tethering doesn't use spectrum. It allows the transfer of data between your phone and computer.With all the carriers going to metered per-MB plans, it's not relevant. If you pay for 2GB of data, it is the same resources for the carrier if you use the data on your phone, on your tethered computer, or on your ass for that matter.Tethering using more data than accessing the internet on your phone, so the carriers will make more revenue if more users tether.

slckusr

Premium Member

join:2003-03-17

Greenville, SC slckusr Premium Member Re: Own you? Tethering doesnt directly use spectrum, but getting the data from the web to your phone sure does.



FFH5

Premium Member

join:2002-03-03

Tavistock NJ FFH5 to joako

Premium Member to joako

said by joako: With all the carriers going to metered per-MB plans, it's not relevant. If you pay for 2GB of data, it is the same resources for the carrier if you use the data on your phone, on your tethered computer, or on your ass for that matter.



Tethering using more data than accessing the internet on your phone, so the carriers will make more revenue if more users tether.



I agree about pricing on UBB, BUT ........

said by hottboiinnc4: Yes but putting that device on a computer can and most likely will cause more strain on the network due to pulling more data over it.

But the above is also true. So where is the tradeoff. If the ISP charges for tethering they get more money for expanding infrastructure to handle increased demand.

elray

join:2000-12-16

Santa Monica, CA elray to joako

Member to joako

said by joako: said by slckusr: said by flycuban: I guess verizon feels that they own your device that YOU paid for.





At least Verizon has an excuse to lock some things down (tethering does use spectrum, which cost money).

Its not just Verizon, Motorola also likes to keep things locked up (bootloaders). This stuff wont change and there arent enough people to get loud enough to make them care.At least Verizon has an excuse to lock some things down (tethering does use spectrum, which cost money).



With all the carriers going to metered per-MB plans, it's not relevant. If you pay for 2GB of data, it is the same resources for the carrier if you use the data on your phone, on your tethered computer, or on your ass for that matter.



Tethering using more data than accessing the internet on your phone, so the carriers will make more revenue if more users tether.

Tethering doesn't use spectrum. It allows the transfer of data between your phone and computer.With all the carriers going to metered per-MB plans, it's not relevant. If you pay for 2GB of data, it is the same resources for the carrier if you use the data on your phone, on your tethered computer, or on your ass for that matter.Tethering using more data than accessing the internet on your phone, so the carriers will make more revenue if more users tether. without having to resort to an overage charge.



Bucket plans aren't sold on the basis of every user achieving 100% utilization. Not by a long shot.



If you want to argue that "all bits are equal" and enforce same in the contract, then you'll find bits priced for peak-access, and your "up to 2GB" plan will become an "up to 1GB" plan for the same price, and in place of overages, you'll just pay for each additional GB at the base rate.



AT&T demonstrated how little spectrum is available for data with its iPhone fiasco - and with "smart" phone subscriptions and data volumes expecting to skyrocket, the carriers are scrambling to both accomodate the demand for the functionality, while pricing data within reach of Mom's family plan, and schooling 100 million subscribers on how to conserve, in order to fit everyone within the narrow bandwidth that's available. That means clamping down on casual tethering. Sorry. That's only true if the tetherers buy larger buckets, or pay overages. Tetherers watching the meter WILL use more spectrum, but the carrier will not make additional revenue unless they exceed their quota; by charging the tethering surcharge up front, the carrier makes up for the revenue losshaving to resort to an overage charge.Bucket plans aren't sold on the basis of every user achieving 100% utilization. Not by a long shot.If you want to argue that "all bits are equal" and enforce same in the contract, then you'll find bits priced for peak-access, and your "up to 2GB" plan will become an "up to 1GB" plan for the same price, and in place of overages, you'll just pay for each additional GB at the base rate.AT&T demonstrated how little spectrum is available for data with its iPhone fiasco - and with "smart" phone subscriptions and data volumes expecting to skyrocket, the carriers are scrambling to both accomodate the demand for the functionality, while pricing data within reach of Mom's family plan, and schooling 100 million subscribers on how to conserve, in order to fit everyone within the narrow bandwidth that's available. That means clamping down on casual tethering. Sorry.

hottboiinnc4

ME

join:2003-10-15

Cleveland, OH hottboiinnc4 to flycuban

Member to flycuban

you may own the device- but not their network. Your monthly fee gives you the privilege to use it and they say what happens on it. If you don't like it; then there are other carriers that will take your business.

mmay149q

Premium Member

join:2009-03-05

Dallas, TX mmay149q Premium Member Re: Own you? said by hottboiinnc4: you may own the device- but not their network. Your monthly fee gives you the privilege to use it and they say what happens on it. If you don't like it; then there are other carriers that will take your business.





Matt So what happens when no one is satisfied with all the carriers and the terms to use their network? Everyone should just put up with it and feel privileged to pay more for antiquated technology that's been around for 30 years now?Matt

jjeffeory

jjeffeory

join:2002-12-04

Bullhead City, AZ jjeffeory Member Re: Own you? I can tell you the answer. We do without. Screw us! You want to participate in modern society? Too bad. Pay up or shut up!



Sucks, huh?

mmay149q

Premium Member

join:2009-03-05

Dallas, TX mmay149q Premium Member Re: Own you? said by jjeffeory: I can tell you the answer. We do without. Screw us! You want to participate in modern society? Too bad. Pay up or shut up!



Sucks, huh?





Matt Not really, if we unite as a nation and all decide to drop our phones I'm pretty sure the carriers will change their tune when all their customers leave, honestly, investors can't keep a company afloat if they aren't getting return on investment.Matt

hottboiinnc4

ME

join:2003-10-15

Cleveland, OH hottboiinnc4 to mmay149q

Member to mmay149q

You do as the carrier wishes and you agree to. You signed the contract agreeing to their terms of using that device. You know up front that it will cost you extra for the hotspot device then you agree to pay for it if you wish to use it.

mmay149q

Premium Member

join:2009-03-05

Dallas, TX mmay149q Premium Member Re: Own you? said by hottboiinnc4: You do as the carrier wishes and you agree to. You signed the contract agreeing to their terms of using that device. You know up front that it will cost you extra for the hotspot device then you agree to pay for it if you wish to use it.





Matt When I got my device the functionality was free, and since at the time PDANet was free and able to be downloaded on the Market I went that route to tether for free, so I didn't break any ToS or ToU, I used the device naturally with app's that were already in place on the Market. Since then VZW has changed my ToS/ToU so since they did that does that mean I should cancel my plan and pay an ETF? Naaaaah, I think notMatt

en103

join:2011-05-02 en103 to mmay149q

Member to mmay149q

I was supposed to be why net neutrality rules were attempted.

To ensure that carriers wouldn't 'double dip' or block certain services.

Instead - they just raise prices.

Personally - since there is a 2GB 'cap' (overage charged), they shouldn't care if I tether or not. Most likely, they'd like to keep those that have data lines from using the phone as a modem w/o extra revenue.

ISurfTooMuch

join:2007-04-23

Tuscaloosa, AL ISurfTooMuch to hottboiinnc4

Member to hottboiinnc4

said by hottboiinnc4: you may own the device- but not their network. Your monthly fee gives you the privilege to use it and they say what happens on it. If you don't like it; then there are other carriers that will take your business.





That would be like your ISP telling you that you can't use a wireless router in your house. Once that data comes out of the LAN side of their modem, it isn't any concern of theirs what you do with it. Or, if you want an older example, it would be like the phone company telling you that you had to only use a telephone that you rented from them. If you wanted more extensions in your house, you had to get the phone company out to install them, and you paid more for renting extra phones. It didn't matter that you still only had one line. If you wanted another phone, or a different kind of phone, you had to get Ma Bell's OK. Yes, but tethering is not a network function; it's a phone function. The tethering happens after the data has been received by the phone. At that point, it is no longer traversing their network.That would be like your ISP telling you that you can't use a wireless router in your house. Once that data comes out of the LAN side of their modem, it isn't any concern of theirs what you do with it. Or, if you want an older example, it would be like the phone company telling you that you had to only use a telephone that you rented from them. If you wanted more extensions in your house, you had to get the phone company out to install them, and you paid more for renting extra phones. It didn't matter that you still only had one line. If you wanted another phone, or a different kind of phone, you had to get Ma Bell's OK.

WernerSchutz

join:2009-08-04

Sugar Land, TX WernerSchutz Member Re: Own you? And that is exactly what they are working toward. All the government regulation and customer protections be damned. I am looking forward when those kind of "features" come to a car or a house that you buy.



Fascism is a lot of fun.

jjeffeory

jjeffeory

join:2002-12-04

Bullhead City, AZ jjeffeory to ISurfTooMuch

Member to ISurfTooMuch

I had a cable company tell me that I couldn't use a router at home. It was against their TOS. That was in '06 in a LARGE metro area too. I looked at them and laughed!

hottboiinnc4

ME

join:2003-10-15

Cleveland, OH hottboiinnc4 Member Re: Own you? and if its in your contract yes they can. Still their network that you lease access to.

ISurfTooMuch

join:2007-04-23

Tuscaloosa, AL ISurfTooMuch Member Re: Own you? And no one said they couldn't do it. However, it's still unreasonable.



And before you say that's ridiculous because these are private businesses, that's true, but they're befitting from government-imposed subsidies in the form of access to public rights-of-way and easements. Did you personally cut a deal to allow the phone and cable companies to cross your property with their lines? No? Then I dare you to go out there and dig them up. You'll find yourself charged with tampering with their equipment, even though it's on your property without your permission. And it's all because your local or state government has decided that these companies should, in the public interest, have the right to put their facilities on your property, and you have no say in the matter.



So, if you want a true free market where it's perfectly OK for any company to be able to extract anything from you as long as it's in a contract, then let's have a real free market and force these companies to have to negotiate to cross every single piece of private property. If you're going to argue that muni fiber is unnecessary because cable TV and Internet access aren't necessary services, then let's take that to its logical conclusion and deny them rights-of-way and easements. Then, once these are true private entities that receive no government subsidies, they can do any damn thing they want.

hottboiinnc4

ME

join:2003-10-15

Cleveland, OH hottboiinnc4 to ISurfTooMuch

Member to ISurfTooMuch

Yes but putting that device on a computer can and most likely will cause more strain on the network due to pulling more data over it.

NeoandGeo

join:2003-05-10

Harrison, TN 1 recommendation NeoandGeo Member . . So I have been using PDANet for years. I've come to terms with Verizon wanting me to charge my phone while I tether or pay them. So I have been using PDANet for years.

Barnstormer

join:2007-12-12

Waverly, IA Barnstormer Member Bastards They come out and say,"Here is a free feature that you can test out for a limited time." Then they go ahead and stick to that limited time promise.. Those bastards!

Unrated

join:2007-02-15

Frisco, TX Unrated Member Free LTE was only temporary offer.



»www.droid-life.com/2011/ ··· uly-6th/ I believe Vz had made it clear that the free hot spot on these LTE phones was only temporary.

tcope

Premium Member

join:2003-05-07

Sandy, UT tcope Premium Member Huh? Verizon now has a cap on data so if a customer if paying for 2GB of data why should Verizon care how that customer uses it?



Is Verizon giving out free lube with each new account?



ArrayList

DevOps

Premium Member

join:2005-03-19

Mullica Hill, NJ ·Comcast XFINITY

ArrayList Premium Member need the ability to.. consumers need the ability to buy a phone sans OS. The OS should be maintained by the manufacturer and/or Google. I really have never liked the idea of a carrier doing more than keeping the wireless network available. I don't expect them to maintain my devices.



adampsyreal

@comcast.net adampsyreal Anon Let's charge them I say we send an invoice for our patronage. They should pay us for choosing them.



45$/per month.



trparky

CYA! I'm gone!

Premium Member

join:2000-05-24

Cleveland, OH trparky Premium Member $30 more gives you tethering If you're one of the lucky ones that got in on the Unlimited Data like I am you're going to be able to keep your Unlimited Data as long as your account stays in good standing even through upgrades.



On Verizon's official Twitter feed it said that you can pay an extra $30 for tethering plus keep Unlimited Data.



pende_tim

Premium Member

join:2004-01-04

Andover, NJ pende_tim Premium Member What App Will Be Next? Now that they have determined that tethering apps are forbidden as they want to sell you tethering, what app will be next?



Google Maps or Google Navigator next? as this competes with the paid Verizon Navigation? How about Picassa/Flicker as this competes with VCast?



I fear this may squash a lot of competing apps.



Tim



state

stress magnet

Mod

join:2002-02-08

Purgatory state Mod Re: What App Will Be Next? Speakerphone is next. It's a form of audible tethering for others to hear and participate in your phone conversation. You'll be able to add it back for a nominal $9.99 a month.



RRedline

Rated R

Premium Member

join:2002-05-15

USA RRedline Premium Member So tired of these companies... I am seriously considering getting rid of my smart phone and going back to a regular cell phone. These companies are intentionally stifling innovation and progress.



Charging for tethering while already on a metered plan is like being charged an additional fee by your electric company for using an air conditioner. Never-mind that you already pay for the electricity that your A/C uses. You have to pay an additional fee for the electric company to provide you with an additional service!



And people are defending this.

dr_jack

join:2002-04-21

Irving, TX dr_jack Member Re: So tired of these companies... said by RRedline: I am seriously considering getting rid of my smart phone and going back to a regular cell phone. These companies are intentionally stifling innovation and progress.



Charging for tethering while already on a metered plan is like being charged an additional fee by your electric company for using an air conditioner. Never-mind that you already pay for the electricity that your A/C uses. You have to pay an additional fee for the electric company to provide you with an additional service!



And people are defending this.

There will always be trolls and there will always be astroturfers. And sadly, there will always be dumb people who defend this type of behavior for free.

neftv

join:2000-10-01

Broomall, PA neftv Member No new customers. I guess these type of actions of making the phone less useful, expensive paperweights and Data gouging they really don't want new customers. Outdated concepts like bandwidth caps and Unions. HA! They never learn.



Geminimind

Premium Member

join:2003-12-20

Sacramento, CA Geminimind Premium Member omg Nobody screws you better than Verizon Nobody.

tmc8080

join:2004-04-24

Brooklyn, NY tmc8080 Member live and die by slogans rule the air seems to be a kingdom where services cost plenty and are runned (ruined) by a tyranny... AT&T put their foot in unsanatary places with their slogans in the past... rethink possible has loads of loaded meanings... like let's possibly screw customers.. let's reshape the wireless industry into a duopoly..



you the customer can choose not to buy the service, and there are prepaid options still available.. don't get seduced by the smart phone cult of popularity.





MyDogHsFleas

Premium Member

join:2007-08-15

Austin, TX MyDogHsFleas Premium Member $20 is NOT a "tethering fee" It is for adding 2GB/month of data to your base tier on your data plan, if you are using tethering. Data is priced at $10/GB/month.



All they are saying is that is you tether, you have to start with a 4GB plan base at $50/month, rather than a 2GB base plan at $30/month. You don't pay extra for tethering per se. You are getting value for your $20 plan increase, namely 2GB of data.



This is exactly what AT&T did, except Verizon is $5/month higher. AT&T is at $25/month for 2GB, and $45/month for 4GB with tethering.

dkyle

join:2011-01-27

Boaz, AL dkyle Member This is why I dont feel bad for having a rooted phone This is why I dont feel bad for having a rooted phone. My thunderbolt has been running gingerbread for awhile now, I dont have any reboots, the phone is fast, and battery life is alot better. Plus I didnt get this update that cripples my hotspot feature.

dkyle dkyle Member Re: This is why I dont feel bad for having a rooted phone This is also why I have turned wifi off on my phone. I used to use less that 1g of data a month because I would always let my phone connect to open wireless networks. Wifi may be faster, but I still have the unlimited plan so I plan on using every bit of it I can.



WHT

join:2010-03-26

Rosston, TX WHT Member Lawsuit Settlement I see that going the same way the crippled Bluetooth went six years ago. » www.verizonwireless.com/ ··· ment.pdf

biochemistry

Premium Member

join:2003-05-09

92361 biochemistry Premium Member Droid Charge I bought a Droid Charge and signed up for $30 mobile hotspot. Currently the feature does not work! When I click on mobile hotspot, it blinks for a second and nothing happens. Using the date trick allows it to work, but what the heck? I'm paying $30 for something that doesn't work properly. Does anyone else have a Charge and know what's going on? Supposedly my phone is updated.



Mr Anon

@k12.il.us Mr Anon Anon Re: Droid Charge The hotspot feature worked on my phone, make sure you have wifi off before you turn it on. Now when I try to run it (I have done no system update except the one when we activated it back in June) it says checking subscription and tells me to pay up if I want to use it.



phoneman

@verizon.net phoneman Anon crippling of devices it all has to do with one and ONLY one thing... GREED. I hate the American cell companies for this... It is NOT like this in other places like Asia.



When will we be treated the same???



Selenia

Gentoo Convert

Premium Member

join:2006-09-22

Fort Smith, AR Selenia Premium Member Way to copy AT&T, bitches You can't even come up with an original pricing scheme to lube and bend over you customers. What is it with Verizon now caring which device uses these limited bytes after they have capped them to 2GB? It's one thing with "unlimited" as the price would assume a certain usage range for certain devices. But to say where the small bucket of data I purchased goes is making me thinking of dropping all these asshole companies and buying a Straight Talk phone and wifi tablet. If it looks like AT&T and squawks like AT&T...oh wait, it's big red.