Print this article Original blueprints for 200 mpg carburetor found in England Rather than a future technology, high mileage carburetors are inventions of the past, but unfortunately they did never make it to market. I wonder why. Now one of them may come back to haunt the oil interests - a bit late, but nevertheless. An article published in Times Online on 19 April 2003 relates the story of how plans for the carburetor designed by Canadian inventor Charles Nelson Pogue in the 1930 were recently re-discovered by a Cornish mechanic in a secret compartment of a toolbox he had been given . . . Source: Times Online

Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2003 Oil Industry Suppressed Plans for 200-MPG Car The original blueprints for a device that could have revolutionized the motor car have been discovered in the secret compartment of a tool box. A carburetor that would allow a car to travel 200 miles on a gallon of fuel caused oil stocks to crash when it was announced by its Canadian inventor Charles Nelson Pogue in the 1930s. But the carburetor was never produced and, mysteriously, Pogue went overnight from impoverished inventor to the manager of a successful factory making oil filters for the motor industry. Ever since, suspicion has lingered that oil companies and car manufacturers colluded to bury Pogue’s invention. Now a retired Cornish mechanic has enlisted the help of the University of Plymouth to rebuild Pogue’s revolutionary carburetor, known as the Winnipeg, from blueprints he found hidden beneath a sheet of plywood in the box. The controversial plans once caused panic among oil companies and rocked the Toronto Stock Exchange when tests carried out on the carburetor in the 1930s proved that it worked. Patrick Davies, 72, from St Austell, had owned the tool box for 40 years but only recently decided to clean it out. As well as drawings of the carburetor, the envelope contained two pages of plans, three test reports and six pages of notes written by Pogue. They included a report of a test that Pogue had done on his lawnmower, which showed that he had managed to make the engine run for seven days on a quart (just under a litre) of petrol. The documents also described how the machine worked by turning petrol into a vapour before it entered the cylinder chamber, reducing the amount of fuel needed for combustion. Mr Davies has had the patent number on the plans authenticated, proving that they are genuine documents.

He said: “I couldn’t believe what I saw. I used to be a motor mechanic and I knew this was something else altogether. I was given the tool box by a friend after I helped to paint her house in 1964. Her husband had spent a lot of time in Canada.” The announcement of Pogue’s invention caused enormous excitement in the American motor industry in 1933, when he drove 200 miles on one gallon of fuel in a Ford V8. However, the Winnipeg was never manufactured commercially and after 1936 it disappeared altogether amid allegations of a political cover-up. Dr Murray Bell, of the University of Plymouth’s department of mechanical and marine engineering, said he would consider trying to build a model of the Pogue carburetor. Engineers who have tried in the past to build a carburetor using Pogue’s theories have found the results less than satisfactory. Charles Friend, of Canada’s National Research Council, told Marketplace, a consumer affairs programme: “You can get fantastic mileage if you’re prepared to de-rate the vehicle to a point where, for example, it might take you ten minutes to accelerate from 0 to 30 miles an hour.”

See also:

How to convert a Lead Acid Battery into an Alkaline Battery

My friend claimed that you could take a weak lead acid battery, one that was still able to be charged but whose lifecycle was nearly finished and convert it to an alkaline battery by dumping out the battery fluid and replacing it with a mix of water and sodium aluminosilicate. Pogue Carburetor, 'Gasoline Vapor Maker' Increase Mileage

This is a story by someone in the US who analyzed Pogue's carburator and made plans for his own unit to vaporize gasoline in accordance with the principles described in Pogue's patents. An interesting discussion is also developing on that article. Pogue, Hydrogen - Stories of Suppression

A bit of background on the oil interests that have been putting their foot down on anyone attempting to 'cheat' them out of their lucrative business of needless and polluting incomplete burning of hydrocarbons for our needs of transport and energy production. There is some good information about various ways to achieve higher gas mileage on the

HIMAC site. See also Get 113 to 138 MPG Allen Caggiano posting his plans The Bourke engine, first demonstrated by inventor Russell Bourke, in 1932, but lost in the politics of wartime manufacturing, optimizes the 90 degree optimal torque angle for converting combustion to movement, improves fuel efficiency over the 4-stroke engine by 300%, while (depending on design) reducing wear, noise, vibration, as well as cutting noxious emissions to nearly zero because of its efficient use of the fuel. Numerous contemporary replications have demonstrated its viability. It is a technology long overdue. Bourke may be to engines what Tesla is to radiant energy -- a scientist who did not realize the actuation of his revolutionary technology in his day, but whose technology may be the salvation of the 21st century energy needs. Apparently, the Bourke design has shortcomings, which Melvin Vaux, who worked with Bourke, has addressed in a series of patents produced in the 1990s. This approach to fuel economy may be more plausible than the vaporizer technologies, which create pockets of highly explosive fumes. The Bourke engine can easily, and perhaps even optimally, run on hydrogen (which can be produced from water), as well as Biodiesel or other less clean but renewable fuels such as methane from garbage. See this page in PESwiki URL of this article:

http://www.newmediaexplorer.org/sepp/2003/06/07/original_blueprints_for_200_mpg_carburetor_found_in_england.htm

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Readers' Comments

Does anyone make a modern day version of the pogue carb?

Hi Matt, thanks for comment/question. As far as I know the pogue carb never did make it into production, at least not seriously, and there is no recent developments that I know of, which would allow us to get hold of one of these "off the shelf". Plenty of do-it-yourselfers but nothing official for now. If any reader has better news, please inform us. Kind regards

Josef

Yeah from the research that I have done on this carb it would have work great. Note the would have, due to the additive in lead in gas there is no way this carb was ever going to make it. Now that lead is no longer a additive there are about 10 other additives that prevent this carb from working correctly. If you were to get ahold of some raw gasoline then you may be able to get it to work, other than that the pogue carb will not work.

So let's publish ALL the prints so more people will have a chance to built it themselves instead of burying it again. Will we ever learn that technology is a gift from God for EVERYONE'S benefit. If you don't want and/or have the ability to build it yourself, then have someone build it for you(and pay them). Are we ever going to grow up and get rid of the mentality of "I" have to build it so ultimately "I" can sell it to "everyone else"? (Just a thought)

Yes, I have made a vaporizer for gasoline and it gets around 70mpg.

I have never seen the pogue carb blueprints but I know that it just vaporizes the gasoline

before it enters the intake. This device is simple to build also. does anyone have the blueprints to the pogue carb?

Also it was stated above that the gasoline had to be leaded to work... That is not true.

This device was successfully used in WWII by the U.S. Army. A study of the logistics in North Africa and how Rommell,s tank Core was defeated (by running them out of fuel) gives serious consideration to the "rumor" of this being the case. The German high command were certain the Allies would not be able to win the campaign because they did not have the rescources in place for the massive fuel consumption necessary. The fact that these carbs were used is substantiated by many WWII vets and eye witnesses and the publication technology was deemed a security threat at that time, if it was made public which it certainly would have been.

anyway

A search on the topic will bring up many credible and not so credible sources on the topic.

Is there proof of the 200mpg

carburetor? Are there really blueprints.

I have ddeveeloped a caarburetor burning the vapor of the liquid gas drive a v8 limo. and get up to 65 miles per hour . now to increeease the power and speed

My father invented a carburetor that came close to the pogue carb it was installed on thousands of cars it was called the vari-vent by astron energies corp. He recieved death threats by oil companies in about 1975 and was bought out in 1978. I am trying to locate one of these if any one has any info please contact me

In the early 70s I had the plans to build one of these carburators, but misplaced them. If I recall correctly, it was made using a Toyota heater core and the fuel lines were wrapped around the exhaust manifold to superheat and vaporize it before entering the carb. The manual had the names of several people over the years who have invented these carbs, and were either bought out by the oil companies or disappeared. Since the media is now interested in the extremely high cost of fuel, maybe we can get them onboard to do some "Investigative Reporting" if anyone knows people in the media. Also, in the past there was a nationwide campaign to not buy fuel for one day. Nice gesture, but not good enough. How about starting the month of May 2004, we spread the word not to buy fuel from EXXON, the next month CHEVRON, next TEXACO etc. That...will put a dent in the companies big time. The power of the Internet can be used to spread the word. Do what you can.

I witnessed a version of the pogue carb operate on a 73 Toyota SR5. The technician, Mikky, now deceased, disconnected the fuel pump and fed heated fumes from the gas tank to the intake of the carb. It ran. To produce power you need more heat. Warning! Backfiring is a big concern. Email me if you want to make a documentary. We'll do it guerilla style like Michael Moore. Fog out the faces to protect the guilty. The oil companies do not take kindly to this subject.

I'll show you how to do it but I'm running the camera not turning the wrenches. Explosafe, a product used in 70s NASCAR to prevent explosions, works. Also, you have to flush your fuel system frequently because our fuel contains additives that leaves unwanted matter in your gas tank. One more thing to keep your valves from burning, install a water injector system. Use distilled water. Remember gas fumes can kill. You got to be careful. The Toyota got 200 mpg BTW. :)

I should word this correctly.

The fumes are not heated. The gasoline is. I would be concerned about using the exhaust system for heating in that the temperature can get too high. Heater core in the gas running at rad temp is far safer.

Tesla had a patent called "Coil for Electromagnet" which uses a principle that may apply to a heat engine. Specifically if the input air for a Stirling is run through a coil so that the input air is preheated by exhaust air, this might provide higher torque. The problem of overheating can then be addressed by providing only minute quantities of supermixed fuel vapor. In other words, the overheating problem is a good development if the richness of the vapor is reduced. This may be a method to give higher MPG operation of the engine. Rather than looking at overheating as a problem to be dealt with by increased cooling intensity, deal with it as a problem to be dealt with by rarefying the input fuel mixture. If the input fuel mixture is reduced so that the vapor has a lower ratio of gasoline molecules to air molecules, then the excess heating of the engine is less. Yet the heating of the engine is required for maintaining combustion temp of the fuel/air mixture. If this engine heat is maintained or increased by preheating of the input air, then the engine can have high heat/cool ratio thus maintaining high torque and high Power to weight ratio. This problem of engine overheating is a key issue which can be used to increase fuel efficiency if it is handled properly. The overexplosiveness situation can also be dealt with by making the fuel/air ratio dependent on the required torque. If more torque is required, you increase the input air heating while using fuel-line self-vacuum/vapor production, decreasing the fuel/air ratio so that the less gasoline is required--this makes for higher mpg while also keeping the uncontrolled explosion hazard under control. Something along these lines has been tested but not sure if I am on the right track. thank you for reading this.

Folks, you can obtain all of Pogues patents and blueprints at the US patent office www.uspto.gov. You have to do a search by patent number only (PN). The patents are 1,938,497 : 1,997,497 : and 2,026,798. You can only get the images in tiff format. I downloaded them just a little while ago. Have fun. Steve

Well thanks for the blue prints from USPTO. I was unable to get them before.

Anyone want to build a cheap carb add-on? Try Yahoo search:

"Atomizer 2000"; "get 113 to 138 mpg"; "catalyst cracking"; "hydrogen-boost system"; "water vapor carburetor, keelynet"; "newscience h2o carb"; "garrett water carb, keelynet"; etc.

Also try USPTO: US6126794, US4936961, US1750354 POGUE, US2006676 Garrett, US3963379 compressed air engine, US4099489, US4292804 comp air eng, US4344831.

Of course, Stanley Meyer: US4798661, US4826581, US4936961, US5149407.

There's a lot more out there. Please visit "IAeSR"



For starters, there is plenty of NEW various types of engines that exceed 100 miles per gallon, you just have to look for them. Eventually they will come to market, possibly through popular mechanics (like H&G's vapor carb), but you will see them. The fact others may be "scared" to produce their inventions in mass quantities because of Oil cartels or the Auto industry looking at them with a sour face. This is only true if they do not get it to the public first, such as waiting until the very last minute before patenting and shoving it out on the shelf. The best idea is mass advertising and the use of paid programming on National Television when the time is right. With so much interest and public viewing it would be very hard to "scare" anyone without some sort of investigation. There is also engines that do not require fuels. Well lets just say, I heard of one that does not need any fuels or liquids of any form, it is called a GPG3. Gravity propulsion Generator that has UNLIMITED milage. I also heard the inventor will have it on National Television as it makes its way across America Coast to Coast without stopping. News has it that it will cost less than $10,000 for the engine once in production. Now how is that for cutting down the use of Fuel?

It is supposed to be out sometimes in 2005.



Afterall, this is the future and we cannot expect to live like the 19th century forever. =)



A recent comment from Australia received by e-mail: Hi Josef RE THIS POSTING below: ( Josef on 2 October 2003: As far as I know the pogue carb never did make it into production, at least not seriously, and there is no recent developments that I know of, which would allow us to get hold of one of these "off the shelf". )



There are hundreds of WW2 TANKS and TRUCKS dumped in the sea in the Philippines that RAN these devices.



Tanks trebled their range ( according to RETURNING tank drivers )�on the same Fuel quantity - when running flat out - so yes this system worked and was used.



Regards Philip BEST

Why bother having a vehicle at all. Live a good life and dont pollute eating local produce etc.

Vehicles - who needs em.

Bring back the horse and cart which produces valuable usable fertilizer byproduct instead of a super heated planet.

( message from Sep :

There are hundreds of WW2 TANKS and TRUCKS dumped in the sea in the Philippines that RAN these devices. Tanks trebled their range ( according to RETURNING tank drivers ) on the same Fuel quantity - when running flat out - so yes this system worked and was used.) Do you have any idea where did they dump it, I am from the Philippines.

todays gas is a very watered down solution compared to that of 1935 therefore pogues carb worked exelently and had full power at top speed. i have found that heating the fuel is the way to go. getting it to its true vapor temp but not far enough to self ignition temp. your best chance is to develop a system with auto controls and sensors to be as safe and efficient as possible.

i would love to see your plans for your 65/70 mpg systems. hope this helps

Hello all. Check out these sites for information on alternative fuels other than gasoline. www.futurehorizons.net - click on alternative fuels, and they have directions on how to convert an internal combustion engine to run on hydrogen. Also go to www.ebay.com and just type in hydrogen. I have found a few programs on there with instructions on how to convert an internal combustion engine to run on hydrogen. Beware some may be scams, I would email the seller first and ask questions, then you will have to make your own judgement if these are legitimate or not. Not all these instructions are scams but some are.

THOUGHT I'D LET YOU KNOW I'LL HAVE A VAPORIZEING SYSTEM ON AN 84 S-10 BLAZER SOON AND I DO PLAN TO PUT IT ON THE MARKET SOON AS POSSIBLE..... WOULD HAVE IT ALREADY INSTALLED BUT MADE THE MISTAKE OF BUYING A 4X4 THINKING THE MOTOR CHANGE COULD BE DONE QUICKLY SO I LEARNED THE HARD WAY 4X4'S ARE A PAIN IN THE BUTT TO CHANGE...... WISH I HAD WAITED A BIT LONGER AND GOTTEN THE JEEP WAGON I RAN ACROSS A FEW WEEKS LATER BUT I'M BOGGED DOWN WITH THE ENGINE CHANGE AND YES THE VAPORIZER IS SITTING HERE WAITING FOR INSTALLATION.... RUSTY

I have been searching for somekinda blue print for weeks now. I understand how it works , but i am a visual person. I would appericate anyinformation anyone could give me. Thanks

herer you go a blue print to TOM OGLE device

http://www.rexresearch.com/ogle/1ogle.htm have fun , be safe ...

The carb set up you guys are talking about ,plans and working models have been sold for years out of texas.To get more info check new or old popular science mags ,the back page adds.I have plans to a vapor carb purchased many years ago,it is a basic set up,fuel is feed in a large biggs $stratton lawnmower carb,then channeled into a prefab metal box, thru tubes inside of box,exhaust is flowed over these tubes and back into main exhaust pipe,vapor produced is then place into carb.it was claimed to give 65 mpg in a v-8 cad,highway only as it must be turned when car is up to speed ,a balancing act must then be performed,cutting off standard fuel flow while turning on vapor flow.if this works at all ,the next logical course is to add sensors,and computer control, flow controls to make this all automatic . Vapor carbs might work but would need money a automotive engineer and someone with computer software skills .the best type of engine to try this on is most likely one of the new acura motors some of the 4 cylinders,have varitable timming, and valves which is controled by computers,this would solve the torque problems with vapor carbs if the vapor carb could be tied in with the valve and timming with sensors and the right software and hardware it would give one of those acura rsx cars around 100? mpg, with decent torque

Hey I have to design a car for a class that i am taking in high school and it has to meet certain standards. I have been having some major trouble on the fuel consumption issue. If anyone has a way that this could work or any data that could help me find out if this would work it would be greatly appreciated.

how about a bosch cis fuel injection system? if you put a vaporization system in the air box, fed by the fuel lines designed to go to the injectors, removing the injectors, and plugging the injector holes in the head. all you would have to do is to make the air box air tight. the plunger that is actuated by air suction would automaticly meter the gas coming from the lines. the only problem is that the motor would no longer need that much fuel. look at the diagrams of the bosch cis if you don't know how one works. man that could work if the amount of fuel being fed to the system could be reduced somehow.

hmm..... how about a cut off switch inside of a small holding tank that feeds the "boiller" cut off the fuel pump intermittantly as the fuel in the holding tank gets to the needed level. although that could prove hazardous if the engine was shut off then turned back on. a spring loaded vent that only lets air/vapors to travel one way would have to be in place just after the air filter.

Dear friends, I regret that only today I have found this webpage. This is all very good stuff here! I myself am also researching Watercar systems and High Mileage carbs! I am a member of several of the yahoo Groups on energy etc. Unfortunately there are lots of discussions but few people are actually experimenting. As for myself, I have not come up with a lot of impressive results. My Hydrogen production has been way to little until now, but I now have the major parts required to make a Carl CELLA generator and will try this in coming months on m car. Furthermore, I have tested a Gas Vapor System on my other car, using following principles:

1. Testengine: 1988 GM 2.8V6 TBI with 2 injectors

2. Vaporhookup: a T-connector hooked into the fuel line (13psi) taps fuel to a Bosch Injector (BI) from a junkyard that delivers about 1/4 the amount of fuel the engine normally gets from the TBI. The BI is wired directly to the ground on one side and the other wire is hooked to a pressure sensitive membrane switch (PSMS), which reacts to pressures as low as 125mm water column. This PSMS was retrieved from an old washing machine and surely not the best choice. I need to find a better more reliable switch. When there is no or pressure is below 125mm Water Column, the BI is activated and sprays fuel into a straith 8mm OD copper tube of about 50cm long. This 8mm OD tube is inserted as deep a possible into the Exhaust trough a drilled hole, as close as possible to the exhaust manifold. This 8mm OD tube again is inserted in a 12mm OD 10mm ID Stainless Steel Tube, whith the bottom end of it welded closed. Using plumbing and gas parts and T- connectors the 2 tubes are sealed tight togehter on he top side. The gas sprays into the 8mm tube, drips down to the bottom while exposed to exhaust heat, vaporises, and the only way out is trough the space between the two pipes and in the 12mm pipe upwards and out trough the T-connector. From the T-connecor, a hose goes to a T-connector with the PSMS to control the BI and the other end goes to a LPG Pressure regulator from a Car LPG system. From the LPG Regulator a hose runs to the TBI manifold, trough the PCV line. A switch was installed to turn of the standard TBI feed from the ECM.

A switch was installed also to turn the BI on and off.

I started the engine in a normal way running it with the TBI and after about 10 minutes warming up, I tried the system. That is, I switched the BI on and waited until the PSMS switched the BI of, meaning there was some pressure buildup in the hoses and tubes. Then I switched the TBI off, but the engine died every time I switched off the standard TBI. I tried until I observed a fuel leak at the PSMS. Then I parked the car for several weeks, being to busy with other issues. I then had to move the car, and simply started it, drove it in and out of the garage, the engine was ildeling high (1500RPM) as it was cold.

I started the car about 3 or 4 times and it ran for at least 15 minutes total but surely longer, before it died on me finally. I could not get it started after that and I then checked the switches and wires, as I could not understand what was wrong, thinking that I had been operating the car with the standard TBI and nothing else.

I then noticed that in fact the TBI was switched of and also the Vapor system with the BI was also switched off, so I had been running the car from whatever fuel and vapor was still remaining in the tubes and lines from the vapor system. I would say that this represents fuel and fuel vapors stored in a fuel line with a 10mm ID and length of 120cm and not under pressure at all. This to me seems somewath promising, but I will have to get back to testing the system. I just wanted to share my experience with you all, so we can concentrate our efforts. In any case, the tube-inside-tube system is to my opinion a very effective, efficient and easy way to make the setup. The advantage of straight tubes is easy construction and more over, easy maintenance, because if the additives clogg up the tubes, then a correctly sized wire brush of 8 and 10 mm will do the job easly and even on the field. Do use Stainless steel tubes however, as the outher one is fully exposed to exhaust heat and oxidation. Regards,

Jake

i have blue prints of the 200 MPG carburetor, my uncle has had them for along time and just gave them to me. not sure if any body is wanting them, i am not willing to just give them to any body, i want to keep this a secret as much as posible, my dad is working on makeing one.

Well all of this reading inspired me to talk a bit about my experiments with gas vapour. I have done many tests on a rotary 1.1L NA engine from a Mazda Rx-7. I chose this engine due to it's design and combustion chamber characteristics. A vapour mixture would give even a higher efficiency than one from a piston type engine.

Ok, now for the good part! I first hooked up a coppper gas line wrapping around the exhaust before the gas went to the carburetor. This proved to give me a 2mpg increase, with very little power. Having realized that the engine was getting so much vapor it was almost flooding, I spliced the heated gas line into the gas return. I then used the vent line from the gas tank as an idle fuel source. Whilst restricting the fuel going to the engine with the idle fuel mixture screw and opening up the vapors from the tank, I was able to totally close the idle mixture screw. The engine would idle extremely smooth, and extremely low. It would pull right along as low as 300 rpm. I didn't worry about the gas getting too hot either-- With lean mixtures you get overheating, and with the hotter the gas, the leaner the mixture. The setup was self-limiting. The gas line wrapped around the exhaust was not covered, and when the engine rad fan came on fan would cool the gasoline. I ran the car like this for a summer, with no problems. I have also done tests with the rx-7 test vehicle with water vapour injection, hydrogen/oxygen injection from a hydrogen boost, steam injection, and a catalytic cracker. I also have used a carburetor enhancer (george wiseman) and hooked up spark plug capacitors for longer sparks.

Hope this inspires some people, as other posts inspired me.

I've heard all kinds of crap about 200mpg carbs for years. Let me try one more time....a measure of gasoline, or any other hydrocarbon, contains only a certain amount of energy (BTU's)so far you can't create energy out of nothing! In other words, THERE NEVER WAS A 200MPG CARB !!!

Dear Gerry Flood,

Your words are spoken like a true mechanical engineer. Of courese, they are BS. I have built and used a "cold vacuum" vapor system and the car averaged 32MPG when it normally got 16MPG. How do you explain that? All vapor systems work, it's only a matter of how much.

I've been really looking into this for a while. I'm badly wanting to build a carburetor that can give at least 50mpg on my GM 455 V-8 engine for my 72' Cutlass. If I could get that kind of mileage out of it, I'd never have to buy a new car. Ever. And it's a classic, so the value only goes up up up! I'm currently looking for plans for a carberator that I can put on a holly or eddlebrock air intake manifold. I just don't want 8mpg. With the size of this engine, I would have to buy premium unleaded, so I want my money to go further. I can't find a SINGLE diagram anywhere. Could someone post one here?

dear Leu, i have in my possesstion a original copies blue print and notes for the 200mpg carburetor i can send u copies if u want copies contate me at poisionhawk@yahoo.com

To Joe Salisbury.

In response to your post September 14, 2004 07:05 PM You wrote

My hat is off to a team from the University of California who in 1992 set an American record of 3313 mpg with a vehicle called Shamu. If a designer could mix current auto design with Shamu and come up with 1500 mpg I think most of us would be happy with that! The next challenge? Get 1500 mpg from vegetable oil! Grow our own fuel and tell Corporate oil companys to rob someone else. Joe I have searched google for the last hour looking for this car called the Shamu.

There is nothing about this car.

I emailed some people from the University of Cal.

No one knows anything about this car built in 1992.

Were you just kidding around.

If there was a car that got 3315 mpg. I can assure you there would be tons of info about this car on the net.

There is nothing.

Which tells me you must have been told a falsehood by someone.

Check out this Volkswagon car that gets 282 mpg.

There's also pics of the car. It looks like something from the Jetsons. It uses a diesel engine. http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/gw/vw1litre.htm

how about running the gas through the transmission cooler on the rad and putting in a higher degree thermostat?i think this would work very well in a fuel injection type setup as you also have the intake manifold heated by the engine coolant,but it is only heating the chamber not the fuel,just an idea?

A comment received by e-mail on the subject of Pogue's carburetor 6 March 2005: ...the Pogue carburetor was definitely sold to the public. People were starting to buy them at such a rate that it attracted the attention of the oil companies, who put tetraethyl lead in their gasoline almost immediately, which coated the inside of the carburetors, rendering their catalytic action useless, and the the oil companies capitalized on the confused Pogue, who built them but didn't really understand exactly how they really worked, while the oil companies understood perfectly, and began calling the Pogue carburetor a fraud, when in fact they had ruined his idea with their additives. Pogue started getting a lot of carburetors back from unhappy customers, and went broke. They're still doing it today, which is why you can't buy gasoline that won't "varnish up" any catalytic device that uses any real degree of heat that would otherwise yield more serious fuel economy gains. They'll allow about 10%, but anything more than that attracts their attention, and the greater the increase, the more attention they will give it.

I found an old newspaper with an article about a man who turned regular auto engines into hydrolic engine. He lived in the LA area in the late 40s The mystery was , he used some type of green fluid that had an extrordinary capacity to expand by the ratio of 50 to one from cool to hot. Does anyone know about this man or his invention? mike..

Hello, this guy says the carburetor story is not true.

Can anyone who knows about cars respond to what he said. http://www.mikebrownsolutions.com/fish3.htm The following is a reprint of Chapter III from the Fish Carburetor Book by Michael H. Brown, pages 11-12 (1982): III.

The 100 MPG Carburetor Myth There have been numerous books and plans written purporting to "reveal the secrets" of the famous "200 mpg carburetor," a device supposedly built in 1935 by Charles Nelson Pogue of Winnipeg, Canada. As of this writing Mr. Pogue is in a nursing home in Winnipeg, Canada. Several of our customers have visited with him. Each came away with a slightly different story. Mr. Pogue actually did manufacture a carburetor he titled the "Winnipeg" in the late 1930s; 317 all told. One of our customers had one and claimed it delivered 35 mpg on a Ford Mustang with considerable loss of power; however, he agreed to let us have it for testing and we are still waiting. There are two problems with the "Pogue principle," which is being touted in high mileage seminars and books all over the country. The first is that the Pogue carburetor violates the first law of thermodynamics, a commonly accepted scientific postulate that has been with us since 1830. The law is written as follows: U = q + w Or, in simple English, if you have chemical energy in a system (U) in its expenditure, it must equal q (heat) plus work (w). That is, if you have 100,000 BTUs in a gallon of fuel in which you then burn the end productsin a system operating at 30% efficiencyyou will have 30,000 BTUs of work and 70,000 BTUs of heat. Anything you put inside the combustion chamber can do only one of two things during the ignition stroke. Produce energy (mechanical movement) during the reaction. Absorb energy (leave out the exhaust as heat) during the reaction. There has been a lot written about the "unburned particulates" furnishing the extra fuel for the extra 50 mpg or so, but if you'll check the Fish dynatune emissions levels you'll see there aren't enough of them to get you another 300 yards down the road. The second problem encountered with Pogue-type devices is thatin some instancesthey actually predate the carburetor. Let's elaborate in both cases. Back before the carburetor as we know it came into being in the 1890s there were several novel methods of getting fuel into the engine. One method was using a kerosene-soaked rag to drip fuel into the engine. Another methodthat became quite commonwas allowing air to pass over the surface of gasoline and then to be sucked into the engine. Sometimes a valvecalled a "mixing valve"would be positioned between the fuel reservoir and the engine. The valve would pop open when the downward motion of the piston created enough suction. This methodand variations of ithave been touted all over the United States in "100 MPG CARBURETOR" seminars sponsored by various individuals as being the "ultimate" in sophisticated fuel systems, usually with exhaust heat or radiator water added to "vaporize" the fuel much more effectively than a standard carburetor. There are a number of things wrong with the concept of such a "100 MPG" system. The first is that the gasolines in use during the days of the mixing valve were far more volatile than the ones in use today. Some of you may remember when you could stand ten feet away from an open pan of gasoline, light a match, and watch the gasoline immediately catch fire. Gasolines were changed in the 1930s with the advent of the catalytic cracker now used in petroleum refining. Carburetors like the Pogue, which depend on easily vaporized gasoline, simply will not work with today's gasolines. The second seminar-taught error is the method of using exhaust heat or radiator water to heat the fuel to the "vapor" point to extend the mileage. Warming or preheating fuel does have some value, but it's limited. Consider using hot water from the radiator to vaporize the fuel first. Today's gasolines do not completely vaporize until they reach 450º Fahrenheit heat, while the maximum temperature of the water in today's pressure radiators reaches only 250º Fahrenheit. You just can't heat a substance to 450º Fahrenheit using a 250º Fahrenheit heat source. At least, not on this planet. Exhaust heat works a bit differently. It is the function of an internal combustion engine to change chemical energy into heat, and then the heat into mechanical movement. If the heat is not changed into mechanical movement it simply leavesas heat. Any time you feel heat coming off an engine you are feeling wasted energy. The exhaust ports of an engine that operated at 100% efficiency would be ice-cold to the touch since ALL the heat would have been changed into mechanical movement. Which means that the more efficient your engine is the less exhaust heat you're going to have. For example, if you have 600º Fahrenheit exhaust heat produced by one gallon of gas over a 20-mile trip and you use "exhaust heat" to "vaporize" the fuel and go 60 miles, what produces the 600º Fahrenheit heat for the next 40 miles? If you answered "two more gallons of fuel," go to the head of the class! Seriously, there are ways to go several times the distance on a gallon of fuel (none of them involving carburetors); it's just that the foregoing examples aren't two of them. In short, Charles Nelson Pogue was a machinist with no formal training in thermodynamics and may have actually believed that what he was attempting would work. All a carburetor can do is meter and atomize fuel in correct proportion to air. Any further increases have to come from increasing the thermal efficiency of the engine itself (such as raising compression) or reducing rolling friction. And this last is why a diesel locomotive with steel wheels will go ten times as far on a gallon of fuel as a diesel truck of the same weight with rubber tires. For Pogueor any similar carburetorto go 100 mpg on a gallon of fuel on a vehicle normally going 20 mpg, the air/fuel ratio would have to be in the neighborhood of 75 to 1 or better. Any second-year college chemistry student knows that.

Joe Salisbury actually was partially correct.

I just spoke to someone who's building this solar car for Cal university.

He told me this. He hasn't heard about the Shamu car, but it's possible that it existed.

He said the Cal Super Mileage Vehicle team built a car a couple years ago that

won the national competition with a mileage of 1068 mpg. It's important to recognize that their car doesn't look anything like a real car (it's just a carbon fiber shell with tiny suspension and a small motor, though it can go 60 mph), and certainly doesn't have any of the functionality. It could go 1068 miles on one gallon of fuel though.

You guys need to go back to watching the sci-fi channel, enough bullshit in here to power a small town. If someone's here has actually done this, build a site, show the results and for gods sake stop bitching about it.

Acetone as a Fuel Additive

Acetone reduces the unburned portion of the fuel by aiding vaporization through eliminating surface tension, thus improving combustion efficiency. Without acetone, the fuel has a higher surface tension, which increases temperature required to vaporize the fuel. Without acetone, small droplets of fuel go unburned and pass through the engine and into the environment as pollution.

If you can give me an e-address I will send info on my work with gasified gasoline. Everyone seems to be overlooking the fact that liquid particles are burning after the initial combustion. All the air is burned up and leaves a small ammount of fuel unburned. Pogue got 217 mpg. I have documented proof.



i'v been tring to desine a 200 mpg carborator for a 2-cycle but, i need some help.

so if anybody has some ideas, plaes let me know.



Pouge Reality. Its time to face a little bit of reality here people.

Pouge did build a vapor carburetor and it did get about 75 MPG. However, the engine it was attached to was not a V8. It was a small four cylinder engine having about the same cubic inch displacement as a Harley Davidson motorcycle. That's only 1200 cc's guys!! Getting 75 MPG from a 1200 cc engine is not that bid of a deal.

I agree that vapor carburetors should improve combustion efficiency resulting in improved MPG. However, Pouge never got 200 MPG using his vapor carburetor on a V8 because he never installed the carburetor on any car with a V8.

The best way to do an analyses on vapor carburetors is to CUT THE BULL SHIT AND GET DOWN TO THE FACTS!

I just found a book on THE SECRETS OF THE 200 MPG. CARB. it has about 10 different variations of the carb. all the same principle, ill scan and post as soon as i can. if anyones interested

if you need someone to scan them, I volunteer, I am more than interested.. I am trying to find my uncle in florida right now who has my set of plans to the actual pogue carburator... but would like to see as many variations as i could where I could show him.. but because he is one of the original old 1%'s it's not always easy to track him down... might be weeks so I would for sure be interested!

Why cant the unburned fuel in the exaust be condensed(cooled) and put right back into the fuel tank.therfore bettering the milage

A Honda Insight hybrid can get over 100 mpg during cross country highway driving. (Follow the link to check out documented hybrid milage results) This guy has ran his Honda Insight 37,283 miles on 402 gallons of gasoline which equals 92.8 miles per gallon. This is for real, with no lost blueprints or the typical "I knew a guy who remembers knowing a guy who met a guy who read about a secret 100 mpg carborator." Hybrid vehicles are in their infancy but will soon be mainstream. Many of the major manufacturers are rolling out new models from compacts and midsize to pickups and SUVs. Our society has been spoiled by decades of cheap energy. We have all been sleepwalking through our daily rountine and have become used to the availability of a never-ending supply of cheap gasoline. Currently Americans burn 20 million barrels of oil a day. Who gives a shit about fuel efficiency if gasoline is cheap. Here in Houston, gas was 97 cents a gallon only three years ago. Today a gallon costs 2.20. A near future where gasoline prices which could easily be in the 4-6 dollars a gallon range is very possible. My neighbor mentioned that he filled the tank on his Surburban SUV and it cost him 90.00. He has to fill up once a week. That adds up to 4680.00 a year for fuel. Now think of the possibility of a per gallon price of 5.00. Now you are talking 225.00 for a full tank and 11,700.00 a year fuel costs! How many SUVs would be parked because the average middle class family could not afford to drive it?Necessity creates opportunity. Since America produces very little of its own energy and has to import from increasingly dangerous and unstable parts of the world, now more than ever, it makes sense to develop vehicle technology which decreases our reliance on imported energy. http://www.greenhybrid.com/compare/mileage/car/54-little-red-beauty.html

It is relatively easy to get "raw" gas. I am currently looking for a secondary gas tank to turn into a "filter" tank. When I fill this tank up, the gasoline will go through a series of activated Chacoal filters before it drops into the primary tank. The filters should filter out the additives and make even a regular carburetor more efficient. But also adding ceramic heating elements to the bowl of a regular carburetor should increase the efficiency at least a little bit.

You can run a "condensetor" in your vehicle. a hose from you PCV to the condensetor and then back to the intake should help. The process is simple. It is basicly a jar that catches the sludge that would normally build up in the engine and allow the unburned fuel to return to the manifold.

I attempted this with a home made condensator but I didnt have it quite air tight enough. It did catch sludge though and allowed the unburned fuel to go back into the mainfold.

Hello... Charles is my grandfathers brother. I'd love to tell you I have the true story on the carb but even he doesn't know the extent of what happened. One day im going to try and make one for myself and see what I can do. If someone out there knows soemthing more I'd really liek to know.

Thanx. Jason Pogue

I have a Astron Vari Vent Carb, with adapter plates for 2 or 4 barrel, gaskets, linkage, looks 100% complete!

Looks in great shape as well! I know nothing about it and I am also not interested in keeping it around! Thanks

Hi, i read that all of you want to build a vaporise type carborator, but there is a propane carborator that will do the same thing, And it should work with vaporized gas. they have them out on the market and already have them on some trucks.I'v also seen them work, and they work like a regular truck. so i hope this will help.

if you want to run a engine off vapor, just take a 3/4" id peice of clear hose, commonly found at home depot, get 2 or 3 hp briggs and stratton engine, clamp off the fuel line going to the carb, have a friend hold the hose over the mouth of the carb, and hold the other end just in the top of the gas tank and start the engine. I did this with a coleman 1750 watt generator and when loaded it put out about 3/4 of it's full load. The longest I had it running like this was about a half hour. I simply got bored and sick of listening to it and shut it off. I have been playing around with heating the gasoline on my 1940 H-D and using small carburetors, so there will be a very high vacuum signal, and to a degree it does work some, but so far nothing to really get excited about. www.muggzy.com

To all those who are trying to improve your mileage, more power to you. I am too! If you find anything on the net you need to print it right away as I am finding that alot of stuff comes and goes. Maybe the oil companies do not want us to know?? To all of those who think the concept is pure snake oil, keep up the good work! After all somebody has to keep wasting money at the pumps to keep the oil companies happy!

good luck to all! I had made several different models, of carbs, but the last one which I thought would be it! feeding vapors through the propane carb, would work great for 20 minutes! then as I had the unvaporized fuel return, through the heat exchanger, only the light ends, vaporized, and the gas was converted into a varsol smelling liquid, and no longer ran the vehicle!the vehicle would lean out , burn your eyes, " nox" and eventualy quit running, until the gas was replaced in the vaporizer, same thing all over again! better luck to you guys!

I guess that I should of read more of the prior comments on here!as I seen a coment about the pogue, carb, that is runing on text book, it says that the purpose of the carb, is to meter liquid fuel into the engine! which is absolutly correct! but now where it fails to say is, only the vapor burns! and if anyone has seen the explanation, from charles pogue, as to why the fuel has to be vaporized, prior to entering the air stream into the intake! there is not enough time for liquid fuel to be completely vaporized,when it gets to you cylinder! in the snap of your finger, the liquid fuel left the nozzle, or venturi of your carb, and is on its way out the exhaust! well if you have ever spit on a hot stove, you can see it sizzle for about 20 to 30 seconds, before its all gone! so even though your engine run s with a vacum, to help boil the gas on the way through and vaporize some of it! enough to run! when all is said and done!

your engine canot take liquid, and completly convert it to vapors, in .02 of a second! thats why the pogue carb vaporized the gas before it went to the intake system , well to the engineers who read it out of there text book! well the book was writen by someone, and was that before or after the pogue carb! it also says , in the ingeneering books that that a bumble bee, should not be able to fly, the body is to big, and the wings to small!haha, well I'm not realy trying to pick on engineers, as you can see I can't even spell it!haha, I'm just saying when ever you think you know it all, something happens and some old books have to be changed! food for though! if you think that vaporization of fuel, is not needed! why does a cold engine need more fuel to run? because less vapors are emited from a cold engine with cold fuel, so in fact your engine does not realy require, more fuel to run when its cold! it just needs the same amount of vapors, it always needs to run! so a cold engine, with cold fuel, you have to increase the volume of liquid, to produce, the same amount of vapors!

oh by the way!! I have had a 283, in my 66 pickup get in the nabour hood of 60 mpg! but I did not get it to run under all load conditions, and would not run cold! and if you rushed it it would lean and backfire! and why is the pickups, of this melinuim, not getting better gas milage, the the 1980 trucks with the old carbs!!



Just thought I'd point out that the Pogue carb is a well known urban legend: http://www.snopes.com/autos/business/carburetor.asp

Thank you John White, but I would like to also point out to you and others that Barbara Mikkelson of Snopes does not always get her facts straight. She recently wrote an article about Codex Alimentarius, a situation I closely follow, which just took the government (FDA) misinformation and repeated it apparently without looking into the huge amounts of serious investigation and reporting that is available not only on my site, but all over the internet. What a pity - can't even rely on Snopes to tell the truth!

If any of you want to see something quite amazing go to www.geet.com where you will see a new type of system that can run on ANY liquid. I know because I was trained on the technology on the scooter that you see in the pics in July 2003.

An article found on the Pure Energy Systems website, which reports on new energy developments. This particular one is relevant to the Pogue Carb discussions, as it heats fuel to make it burn better. Vaporate Aims to Maximize Bang for the Buck

A pinpoint technology eliminates a limitation of internal combustion engines with minimal intervention. First product delivered Monday.

AUSTRALIA -- In today's typical internal combustion engines, a fuel injector discharges droplets of gasoline into the air intake just before the combustion chamber. The surrounding air helps vaporize the outer layers of these droplets, which decrease in size and weight...

Does anyone know if there are any laws "preventing" us from putting these vaproization systems on our own vehicles here in the U.S.A.? The Carburetor Reseach Center, that was in Florida, would not sell their canister kits to a few states, especially California.

Can i get the blue prints for such a device. Thank you .

This is as good as it gets for free http://www.rexresearch.com/pogue/1pogue.htm#2026 The original blueprints for a device that could have revolutionised the motor car have been discovered in the secret compartment of a tool box.

A carburettor that would allow a car to travel 200 miles on a gallon of fuel caused oil stocks to crash when it was announced by its Canadian inventor Charles Nelson Pogue in the 1930s.

Here is a reference to SHAMU which Mr. Salisbury mentioned. It gives very little information and states 1990 for the record... www.futuretruck.org/pdfs/2000workshop/uc-davis.pdf (Sorry, link gone bad - Sepp) Cheers!

I ordered the pouge plans from a pop.sci. ad in the 70's. I also mlost or misplaced them. I never got very far with the experiment, procrastination mostly. but I came to a conclusion that this was much different than changing liguid propane into a gas before combustion on propane orerated forklifts an such. propane just doesn't burn at the same temp. hope this helps some one

Has anyone heard of the Hydro-Gen device from website savefuel.ca I talked to the father of the inventor and he sounds legit.

I am trying to post all the information I can get on super-efficient carburetors - and anything else that we can use to reduce our consumption

of oil - any information anyone here can provide on a super-efficient carburetor will be greatly appreciated and posted for everyone's benefit. We now have enough for a person to build any one of several carbs as well as a new source of fuel. check us out at www.FEVj.org



Very intersting run a mower on 75% water and 25% gas I am still confused as how this is possable unless when the water is in steam form and compressed hydrogen from the water is ignited. Planes here http://www.teslatech.info/ttstore/articles/geet/geet.htm

Hello, I don't understand the water my self, So me and my cusson are doing this project on a 5.5hp pressure washer we have that the pump is cracked on it. When we got the supplys for it cost use $94 @ ACE HARDWARE (8-27-05) but you can cut the cost if you deside to use non Galvanized gas pipe (what we should have done). we are not using the 22mm / 7/8" Copper Oil Drain Plug Washers, we are going to have the pipe Tees welded to insure a good seal. We don't trust the washer because if the washer don't seal the gas fummes will mix with the exh and may cause for a big BOOM! I will keep you all posted on how it goes.

Hello, Got it all together today 9-01-05 and it worked like a charm on gas vapor only. I keep you all posted on how it does with the test of 75% water and 25% gas after this weekend.

Damien I have been thanking of try to test the joe cell myself.

I ran it today on 75% water and 25% gas and it runs great but it is a little harder to start but not bad. But I still don't understand what the water does.

I worked on a turbin for Ford Motor in the late 60 we obtained 60 mpg on kerosine and over 300 HP.

When sent to ford they wanted the converter changed and to max of 20 mpg we came up with 10 mpg ford bought it This motor went into their large diesel tracks I was just one person but if Omega Watches would release their engineering end you would be suprised .(Josh Omega was the engineer).

What about hydro cells that just run off of water. Anyone ever look into the one mentioned earlier at http://www.cyberspaceorbit.com/water.html Very interesting and I am thinking of building it for my truck. Any ideas or anyone willing to help

I am not for sure whats going on but i was able to get a 100% vapor gas test done at WOT for 10 mins and it used 6oz of fuel 6x6 = 36oz in an hr and 128oz (gal) \ 36 = 3 hrs and 56 min run time on 1 gal of gas. When i tryed the water/fuel mix it run good for about 3 or 4 mins then start slowing downuntill it would die, so i tryed running it 1\4 open throttle and it run longer but would still die so i went back to 100% gas and i get the same thing runs 3 or 4 mins and dies, so i am thing i am losing pressure in my bubble tank that feeds the fuel ot may be it is getting to hot with no air moving around it. so I am Back to the testing stang to find out what is wrong.

Vapor phase carburation systems using the present gasoline cracking system will not keep good mileage the longer they are ran. The current price for gasoline could make it possible to replace gasoline with the pure white gasoline which is lantern fuel that is becoming competitive in price that has always been available. The generators on the Coleman gas stoves and lanterns prove that a true vapor phase carburetion system is possible. I've built several of the systems and the main problem was contamination. I'd recommend connecting to Bruce McBurney's site at: http://www.himacresearch.com/letters/open.html

I plan on building an entire three part engine with all of the new high tech capabilities that auto companies and oil companies dont want you to know exist. the car i am currently trying to build the engine on will be much lighter than the 2700 lb cars that car companies are making now with only 18 mpg or so. i project when all is said and done i will create a car that can get about 350MPG imagine if you had an 10 gallon tank. you would receive 3,500 Miles to an entire tank of gasoline...how amazing would that be.

There has to be lots of unburned fuel coming out those exhaust ports or we still wouldn't be using catalytic converters now would we!!!Wake the hell up you naysayers.....

HI to all! As i read through the different experments, It made me aware, that there are many people out there looking for answers! I started to play with all different type of vaporizing ideas in the mid seventies ; then in the early part of the eithies i got a book by allan walace, it had the pogue carb and many others! I had made many different type of heat exchangers! some with coolant and others with exhaust! so ofcourse this new book was heaven to me! as it renewed my hope in the gas milage part! I made about fourteen completly different types of fuel systems! and ofcourse with each time being more convinced that I had all the angles covered! I have had enough succest to know that it has possibilities! from the results I got! I had in upwards of sixty miles to the gallon! but the drawbacks were terible! leaning during aceleration! no cold start, and running! in my last oneI was useing coolant to heat gasoline! and the system ran through a propane Imco carburetor! it ran like a charm! with no problems through all rpm ranges! then 15 minutes would go by! and it started to run terible until it died! Well I know why now! but it took me awhile to figure it out! as i was useing heat from the coolant! and recirculating the fuel which was unvaporized back into container to be rerun through the heat exchanger agian and agian! but what happened!! was only the light ends of the fuel vapourized! and the fuel was converted to a stale smelling varsol like fluid! and would no longer emite enough vapours to run the engine! but after that amount of time of 15 minutes or so that half pint of gas had not demenished enough for the float to let new gas in! so then, the engined leaned and made a terible amount of nox!1 burnt your eyes and died! Well I know its possible from all my experiences! to make gains which would be very aceptable! I know that there will never be another pougue carb that will work like his did! bacause! the gas is not now like it was then! after his carb came out!! gas got leaded! to make sure the heat exchanger would not work for to long! and now it has other crap in it to do the same! if you doubt this to be true!! try useing it in your colman cook stove and see how long it will last!! as you are vaporizeing it there to a true vapour state! and the crap in the gas that is intentialy put in there so it can't be cracked into a vapour state! but that doesn't mean that it can't be heated enough as to not make some good gains!! I wish you all the best of luck! claude

I just stumbled across this site today and noticed a comment from Ron Rollins from 20 Feb 2004 stating that he is looking for an Astron Vari-Vent carburetor. If he is still interested, I may be able to help him out. Email me at bubbamike80@yahoo.com

Hello, this is for the guy that said he would scan the book THE SECRETS OF THE 200 MPG. CARB. if yoiu can and send it to me at Blind_hearse18@hotmail.com i would greatly appreciate it. My friend and I are trying to build these carbs for our cars, my friend has a 77 ford Bronco and I have a 77 LTD, they both have 351s. If anyone has anything that could help us, that would be great.

Hello to all you high gas milage seekers! Well I have checked out a lot of forums, about high gas milage, I have to say that the response are getting preditable! The people, who have never actualy build anything! All seem to say from what they heard from a friend of a friend, or what they have read someplace! That it can't be done!! One of the forum, replies

from" cecile Adams" actualy said that the" carburetor" Was absolete, like the buggy whip! haha! Well! maybe so! but the piston engine was the reason for the need of the carburetor! so we are still in need of that! so the piston engine must be the "buggy! I would like to give you a bit of food for though! before fuel injection! in the popular science adition of april 1983! you would see on the cover of that magazine!

smokey yunick's 150 hp two cylinder engine, useing heat exchanger's first coolant to bring the intake air fuel temp to 220 degress, than exhaust to heat it up to 440 degress! through a turbo, that smokey liked to call homogenizer! the turbo was evaloped along with the intake with the exhaust going through the involope to heat the air\fuel mixture! to 440 degress, smokey says that when the fuel went through that turbo, the fuel particals were very small like a smoke mist! and able to vaporize more rapidly with the hot intake temperatures! Well there's more to this! but its to much to put on here! Ofcoure this was known thechnoligy then! but by 1985 we know what was going to be the winning, savior as for moder technoligy! the new adds read!! no need to look for the supper carburetors! fuel injection is here!haha! Now I've been a mechanic for thirty years! and Ive seen several different things! As the diesel john deere engines for example are now at 10,000 psi of fuel delivery pressure on there tier two engines! which turns fuel injected through it, into basicly smoke! as the paitical are so fine! now lets talk about the joke!1 of me laughing about fuel injection, in your car! did you know that your kitchen tap, in your house has more pressure, then the fuel injection in your car! and the spray pattern of your advanced fuel system, is comparible to one of a windex spray bottle! so now you know what your "buggy whip"was replaced with! and just maybe! you can see why the gas milage of a 1981 pickup chev, or ford five liter, with the automatic over drive, was as good if not better then one comparible one now! useing that "buggy whip" carburetor!haha! and what about the performance machines on the race circuit!, still a lot of carburation going on there! more food for though the knowledge is there! just needs to be found! good luck claude!

just a little info! If you go to google search! and put; SMOKEY YUNICK'S TWO CYLINDER ENGINE! It will take you to more info on that one! somthing else to think about! if you invent somthing that is marginly better, or equivalent to fuel injection! As fuel injection was over caburation! :out of tune: you would be a genious!! but if you are successfull! in doubleing gas milage!! you would be deemed a fraudulant idiot! food for though! haha! claude!



Hello Everyone I am working on my vaporizer fuel system that is presently being installed on a 4x4 GMC 1 ton crew cab truck with a 454cid engine. Progress is going well so far and pictures of the system installed under the hood of the engine bay are uploaded to the group files at the alfvaporizer group link provided. If you wish to join the group you must give your name the the group owner, which is me. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/alfvaporizer/?yguid=46904498 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/alfenergy/?yguid=46904498 You can see details of my system at this link.

http://jlnlabs.online.fr/bingofuel/alfvap/ May the truth set you free... Thank you for your time. Sincerely

Alan L. Francoeur

Penticton BC. Canada

Check out Vapor Systems Technology's website. They have a CD with over 900 different fuel vaporizing systems, including Pogue's, Ogle's, Caggiano's, Smokey Yunick's... Ton's of systems, the CD's $24.95.

I am trying to get intouch with KUSTOM KARBS Rockford, Il. They make a VAPORKARB which is a device that mounts under the carburetor. It consists of a turbulator, turbo vane & electro grid which is electronicaly activated to heat the gas. As the gas air is pulled therw the device by the engines own vacuum it is vaporized by the heat & turbo action of the device. If anyone knows how to get in touch with Kustom Karbs I would like to hear from you. Thank You!

Hi Guys,

I've seen lots of good info here, and some great ideas as well. Some of the greatest discoveries of past centuries have been completely accidental, or put together in someones backyard or garage, so keep it up, and never let negative comments or opinions keep you from trying new ideas. At the very least, a high milage fuel system(100mpg+) would be awesome, and it would benifit millions of people, but since fossil fuels seem to be one of the greatest contributors to pollution problems, wouldn't even a high milage system still only be prolonging the inevitable? I fully understand that this type of system would greatly reduce pollutants, but with the number of vehicles on the highways projected to increase by 25% over the next five years alone, the problem of automobile air pollution still remains. I believe Hydrogen may well be our next "gasoline", and a system that could separate water into it's basic components(Hydrogen and Oxygen), burn the Hydrogen, and release the Oxygen into the air, would not only be a clean source of fuel, but it would actually make a contribution to our atmosphere in the form of Oxygen. There is also research being conducted with Gravity Wave Generators, other types of Gravity propulsion, and probably a few that none of us have heard about just yet. Of course the Oil Industries and Automobile manufacturers will try and convince us that our present fuels are the best thing going, but isn't it time we all started thinking for ourselves and believing a little less of what we are being spoon fed day by day? Maybe it's time we started thinking "outside the box" just a little more?

HI to you all! I read the last post, on hear!

I have to say that I agree! but the government, has not figured a way to put a road tax, on water yet! and sense the government have there hands in the pockets of the oil companies, you know which side, the government is on! they say that the economy hindges, around oil and gas! so how would , the water distrubitors , give kick backs to the government? and when it comes to morals, or the ecolagy,

putting your faith in your government, is like letting the fox gaurd the chickens!! as we would not ever be able, to get the government , to say hey!! the oil industry, is bad for the inviroment! and we must take steps, to stop them!! and the growth, as you say is expected to rise 25 % in the motor vehicles, in just five years! so if the EPA of the vihicles that are on the road, could be raised,

from 21 mpg to 60 mpg! then yes we would be buying some time! and just one more thing!! food for though! the EPA for vehicles, in 1988 was 22MPG and as 2004 it has dropped to 21MPG! don't you think this reflects the interest of our government! in the inviroment?? claude

Just throwing this out there. Has anyone ever though of using ultrasonics to atomize the fuel. Like those ultrasonic fog makers you see in shopping malls. Makes a very fine fog out of vapors. Might eliminate some fuel/heat issues. Food for thought. Cheers .......Steve

Damien, would it be possible to get more info from you on your system you spoke about making Hydrogen? Mostly anything you will share adding digital pics too.

I have been studying about many different vaporizers to gain needed info first but now find interest in what you are doing. If you can/will share this type of information, please email to me. Thank you. Ken

My email addy is ken55ford2001@yahoo.com

Hello, I have built a pogue carb that worked temporarily, but due to the fact that gas at the pump today is made so it will not completely vaporize below 400 degrees the carb only worked for a short time. This is the oil companies way of preventing any back yard mechanics from building a successful vapor carb using gasoline.

Some food for thought....what if you used high pressure to spray gasoline into such a fine mist that it actualy vaporized? This could be done using the fuel pump off of a diesel. This is over 2000 psi. so only hard lines should be used. Another idea I would like to put out there is this....has anyone taken a close look at the propane fuel system? Have you noticed that the propane carb is just a vapor mixing device that would work with any type of vapor! The available BTU's in propane is far greater than the system uses! What if you added an oven expansion chamber to a propane system? This would expand the propane vapor before it enters the carb. This could expand the propane to over 200 times itself and miles per gallon would follow the same multiplication.

Years go by and many people have tried so hard and spent so much time and money trying to find a system that will work....there are many different ways that will work and for all of you who have hope and an undying devotion to succeed don't ever give up! Jake

I want a better carb for my boat it is a 1978 ford 302. Can you re-do my carb or sell me one that will work?

I was looking for kustom karbs and found your site. Their address is 720 Jordan Place Rockford, IL 61108

Jake, would it be possible to get pics emailed to me of your pogue endeavor? I am very interested in what you have built. My email address is a couple of posts back.

ken55ford2001@yahoo.com

Ken,

I can send you pictures of the carb but it won't give you any idea of what is inside. To look at it from the outside you only see the external steel that surrounds the inner workings. If you have ever seen a picture of the pogue carb you will notice that it has a spray chamber that creates a very rich mixture of fuel by spraying it through nozzles. I created a chamber just for this and used a holley 110 fuel injection pump to provide the pressure to the spray nozzles. The idea is to make sure you create a mixture so rich that it won't burn. Now I piped the super rich mixture out of the top of this container and routed it through an oven that basically consist of a bunch of passages inside a round tube. The idea is to bring the rich mixture in contact with the heat in the oven as much as possible. This will dry the liquid droplets of fuel thus turning them into vapor. Now comes the hard part........now that you have a dry gas vapor how do you mix it with the incoming air and control it in a way that it is a calibrated mixture for the engine to use?! I suggest buying a propane carb and using it as a mixture device. I fabricated a single butterfly carb that was less than impressive. Some things to think about before you get motivated to build.....How will you heat your oven....It needs to reach 400+ degrees to evaporate the ingredients in todays gasoline. Vapor burns so cool that the exhaust temps drop to a level that I couldnt even get to 300 degrees without increasing the rpm's to 2000. Another thing to consider......a propane carb needs 1.75psi operating pressure to work so you must find an air pump that you can use to pressurize your system with. I am sure you are noticing that there are an amazing amount of very important details that are left out of the description of these devices when you read the patent. I have been looking for a long time now for a heat source that would provide 400 degrees in an automobile......I haven't found an air pump that would work for the system either....

I don't think pictures would give you enough detail of how I built this carb but I would be happy to email you some drawings of the internal workings? Let me know if your interested.

I will always find hope where others only see failure:)

Jake

Hey Jake. Thanks for the answer. Yes, please email me what you have and maybe we can expand on them. Ken

Hello Ken,

Did you get the sketchs I sent you?

Jake

Hey Jake. Yes I got them. Sorry to say I have been really busy. Working 12 hour days no days off since I got them. Then the holidays... Hopefully get right to this after the holidays. I do continue to research all I can about the related items we are talking about. I do have resources to do up a system, just gathering knowledge at this time. I'll get back to you later. Thanks for the info and more insight.

Damien, probably what you heard about it carbide, not carline. Here is a bit of information carbide any one of a group of compounds that contain carbon and one other element that is either a metal, boron, or silicon. Generally, a carbide is prepared by heating a metal, metal oxide, or metal hydride with carbon or a carbon compound. Calcium carbide, CaC 2 , can be made by heating calcium oxide and coke in an electric furnace; it reacts with water to yield acetylene and is an important source of the gas. Barium carbide reacts similarly. Aluminum carbide reacts with water to yield methane. Some carbides are unaffected by water, e.g., chromium carbide and silicon carbide . Silicon carbide, almost as hard as diamond, is used as an abrasive. Tungsten carbide, also very hard, is used for cutting edges of machine tools. Iron carbides are present in steel, cast iron, and some other iron alloys. found on http://www.encyclopedia.com/html/c1/carbide.asp I remember people talking about using this for lamps, but be warned - there is danger of explosions. It does not seem to be an effective fuel, probably because it costs more than what we are using now. Sepp

If you want the most power for the least amount of fuel, use a jet engine. Thats why the airforce changed away from internal combustion engines!

I have thoroughly read this entire discussion. There is a lot of good info here, mostly trial and error, but hey it works. A couple of you guys mentioned hydrogen. Here is a site that I found and I plan on reproducing this unit as it seems to come from a legit source. Check out this site: http://members.fortunecity.com/freeenergy2000/hydroboost.htm Also, personally I think some of you guys should do research on Lean burning engines. They are mostly made of ceramic's that can withstand very high temperatures that would normally melt a cast-iron motor. Toyota has been experimenting with Lean burn ceramic Diesels for the european market, but odds are if it is developed, it won't be here in the states for another 15-20 years. I personally built a Chevrolet 396 with ceramic coated pistons, intake and exhaust valves, and a coated cylinder head chamber for durability. This is pretty strong stuff. You can put a blowtorch right up to the pistons and keep it there for a couple of minutes and it won't do anything. The Thermal Barrier works and might be something to explore in addition to vaporization. My motor should be able to take some leaning in moderation, although gains in Gas mileage would only be moderate, not 100 mpg. If I got 20 around town, I'd be happy. Just my two cents

-Cory

Enjoyed scrolling through and reading the various posts, but the naysayers are not far from us. I also remember reading about Smokey Yunick's homemade V-2 engine in a VW Rabbit that was in the April 1983 Popular Science and how the doubters came and drove his vehicle and wondered why it wouldn't knock when trying to start out in 4th gear. Turns out that when you fully vaporize your fuel, the knocking problems are basically nonexistent. That was the result from a friend of mine in Utah who had taken off the RH exhaust manifold from the 350 V8 engine in his full-size 1974 Chev pickup and installed a homemade heat exchanger, that had 16 feet of black pipe inside, which vaporized the gasoline when the tubes were exposed to the hot exhaust gases. He started his truck on the 4 barrel Quadrajet carburetor and when it warmed up he shut off the gas flow to the carb, let the float bowl run dry and then switched it over to the vapors from the heat exchanger, which were fed into a modified propane-mixing device on top of the carburetor. I drove the truck one time and we were on the highway when he asked me if I wanted to try his vapor system. I said "yes," so he shut off the fuel to the carb, let it run dry and switched over th the vapors and the truck picked up some speed. What was really interesting is that the acceleration was so much better than the regular carburetor. It isn't like it had the power of a supercharged street rod, but it was definitely an improvement. He claimed 30 MPG with it, and I have no reason to doubt him. We still need to ask ourselves, like someone stated above - if our modern fuel systems are so wonderful, why do we still have to have EGR valves and catalytic converters? Some people have theorized that a piece of nickel and/or platinum attached in some way to the top of a piston and the cylinder head actually helps gasoling to burn better in the combustion chamber. I don't remember if anyone above talked about the Fish carburetor by Robert Fish (he has four patents in the USPTO)

and how it improved mileage simply by providing more streams of gasoline, which would then vaporize better.

You can buy almost anything in this world for money - even good ideas and inventions.

Use hot air from the exsaust manifold to the intake manifold. This has been a garded secret for a while as car manufacturers make us believe the opisit: Build shrouds around the exhaust manifolds. Most engines already have a shroud on one side. V-8 engines must have two shrouds t: .? enough hot air.

Heated air works with fuel injectkn too.

If you have a thermostatically controlled, vacuum actuated flap ~ your air cleaner intake, remove the control valve and add the second (from the shroud you built) to the of the air cleaner intake. You must let NO cold air enter the air cleaner Yet you must allow plenty of air to the engine. I have found that a lot a air cleaners do not have large enough intake tubes and constrict the amou-of air going into the engines to the point that they actually lose power.

You will find that replacing the flimsy aluminum tube that came with your car with flexpipe to be a good idea. There are several different types of flexpipe, some for exhaust, some for protecting electrical cables. If you try it you wont be disapointed and its more than safe for an engine. Temperatures are down because of better vaporisations. If you have the now how also lean the engine down as the engine will be a little richer due to more vapor. All due credit to George Wiseman at Eagle reseach for this idea and also a local in my town did this as well with good results.

I am not technical but very interested in the subject. I want to mention the use of kerosine or petroleum in an engine. Is this possible? Kerosine may be less "polluted" than gasoline. The behaviour of kerosine must be considered; ignition temperature, engine pressure and so on.

Wesley Gary's magnetic motor design found at www.fevj.org/FEV-magnet-motor-by-W-W-Gary.php - as well as several other sites - is as simple as putting 2 permanent magnets facing each other so that they attract then, put a small electromagnet between them, with 2 sets of contacts mounted so that as it approaches either magnet, its poles are reversed

and it is repulsed back toward the other with a lot of force! It is a design simple enough for anyone to build with little expense!

hey jake

have you ever thought of using gas made from corn to run the pogue carb?

i know that it is totally clean burning with no additives and it increased the gas mileage on my 93 suburban from 18 to 35 mpg.

it has 235,000 and runs better now than it ever did before.

i had the pogue plans but have since lost them.

i saw it on a 67 galaxy 500 back in 70 and it got the 200 mpg.(could never find anyone to build it for me)

it just seems to me that if you could use the corn fuel it might get even better than 200 mpg.

in ww2 the japs used this fuel to fly their planes like we used the pogue to run our tanks in africa.

http://waterpoweredcar.com/1978camero.html I think these are genuen watercar plans using a plasma spark simular to JLN labs. This is a totaly different approch to what i have normally seen using electrolisers but worth reading and deciding for yourself. Click on the plans and also have a good read of this entire website

I know for a fact that holley made a carburetor for a 82 dodge pickup with a slant 6 it got 27 mpg with all kinds of power. This carb. was not suppose to get out of the factory, Could not get a carb kit for it. It was not listed in the holley book for a rebuild kit,the carb it self was not listed in the price list. not bad for a full size truck.

installed KUSTOM KARB KIT ON 2001 S10.INCREASED MPG BY ONLY 1 MPG.

terry, question for you.

You say,

I had the pogue plans but have since lost them.

I saw it on a 67 galaxy 500 back in 70 and it got the 200 mpg.(could never find anyone to build it for me) Did you actually drive the 67 Galaxy or know someone that drove this car that got 200 MPG.

Or the paper said it will get 200 MPG.

There is a big difference between actually seeing the car get 200 MPG and only reading that it will get 200 MPG.



HELP FOR PRODUCTS OR INFORMATION TO GET BETTER GAS MILLEAGE ON FUEL INJECTION 318 DODGE ENGINE IN B250 CONVERSION VAN.ALSO 318 ENGINE WITH CARBERATOR IN A 1979 COACHMAN LEPRACON RV.ALSO 1990 OLDS.SMALL CUSTOM CRUISER SW.WITH 3.0 6 CYL.FUEL INJECTED.THANKS.GARY COOKSEY 781 AARON WAY BRANSON MO.65616 PH.417-334-9593 EMAIL GARYLEECOOKSEY@YAHOO.COM

These are small differences you can make to gaining small but simple increases to better MPG. I have tried the first one with the oxygen sensor: see below Cover Oxygen Sensors with Aluminum Foil: Wrap your oxygen sensors in the exhaust pipe with 7 to 10 layers of shiny foil. Advantage: The car computer system depends on the oxygen sensors to adjust the air-fuel mixture being fed to the engine. The cooler the exhaust gases, more fuel gets sent to the engine. The hotter the exhaust gases, less fuel will be sent to the engine. Directions: To seal maximum warmth inside the exhaust pipe, insulation in the form of Reynolds Aluminum Foil is employed to insulate the oxygen sensor. Wrap five inches in front and five inches after the sensor to keep it much warmer. We double a one-foot section of foil and wrap that around the pipe and around the sensor itself. Do not remove the sensor. Then we repeat the process four more times. Finally we use .030" copper or aluminum wire to wind around the aluminum foil to keep it from blowing away and be sealed against water. The wire comes from any welding supply. The goal is to fool the car's computer into sensing too rich a mixture so it adjusts with a slightly leaner mixture and possibly a slight advance in timing. The end result is smoother engine operation and better MPG. This trick is especially important in severe winter climates. I have tried this one and normal rules are if an oxygen sensor gets hotter it is lean and tells the computer to richen, but the oxygen sensor doesnt work unless temperatures are above 600deg in the exsaust which i found out on a site so the computer if it doesnt get a response from the oxygen sensor automaticly richens the mixture. I found this hard to believe but have tried it and since the engine is 20% quiter and alittle bit more efficent. When you do this just think what you can do to the intake air sensor. Me personally i would add hot air. I cant do this one cause i made a manual control to trick the computer : see below

Use Warm Air Intake: Modify intake to draw warm air near radiator. Advantage: Deliver warm and smooth air to the intake for best MPG. Directions: Disconnect the cold air hose or housing from the fender well. Remove filter. Clean up the parts. Bore about 10 1-3/4 inch holes into plastic housing (if this applies) to draw air from the engine compartment directly to the air filter. Deburr the holes and clean the parts. Plug up the cold air inlet leading to the air collector box. Reinstall the air filter assembly. This will improve the engine Thermal Efficiency and mileage. I am to try this one next week. Basicly i would just make a shroud to sux intake hot air from the radiater with out any extra cold air coming in. George Wiseman from Eagle research has done simular to this but using heat off the exsaust manifold with good results. When i try this next week or so ill post the results.



If you want to see water burn on fire check this site www.joecell.com.au/video.html (sorry, link gone bad - Sepp) and go to the bottom of the page and download Sols BNE download video. You will need cable or broadband for a fast download which it will still take 10 mins to do. Know this vid goes for 10-15 min but watch it all and wait till they show you how to light water on fire. They will say they are using negativly charged water which is a alkuline water from an irionizer. If you dont know what a irionizer is just email me and ill send some plans how to make one as on the net there expensive ($1000 plus for something so simple) and you can build one for under $50 if ya skilled The alkuline water from an irionizer you can drink and is very pure and it burns if ya do the right experiment same as the vid. I would recommend you to download this vid quick cause i recond it will disapere eventually and burn a copy and keep it if your a enthusius researcher

dan

yes i saw and road in the car.

the guy had a device that showed the car got 200mpg.

it had lots of power.

i road in it for about a half hour.

have you ever seen one?

i am from melbourne australia. & yrs. ago I rebuilt my 79 old wagon ( ford ) It ran on straight gas similar to camp stove gas. But for the auto industry . A 5 speed manual . 29.88 mpg on a trip & 24.5 around town . If I had been given all the secrets I have been told close 33mpg . on a trip . This fuel was a 3rd of the price of petrol at the time . The man that told me how to do this ( john bennett ) did the same car on petrol with only some of his tricks & achieved 39.88 mpg . A friend of his that owned the car said it was an 3 speed auto . We actually belive that wec ould achieve 55 mpg using all of johns tricks . my personal car had 20 -25 % better torque. My old boss just passed away & he built a carby out of perspex 15 - 20 yrs ago & got 63 mpg out of a GM 6 cyl. The only problem is that it would ice up . Yes people the vapour system similar to pouges carby .

We're building a 100 mpg Saturn This and other vehicles are being modified and all details will be fully disclosed. Also debunking and testing devices and products of all kinds. Follow discussions at mpgreserearch.com

Sorry folks, you're all dreaming. Everyone knows that for emissions purposes todays cars are tested for unburned hydrocarbons at the exhaust. I've had 18mpg non catalytic engines showing less than 200 parts per million of hydrocarbons in the exhaust. This means that more than 99.98 % of the fuel was being burned. There's nothing left to get extra energy from. The fuel is a fine mist when entering the combustion chamber and when the pressure is increased 9 times on the compression stroke it ALL explodes. Carnot's theorem dictates the maximum possible thermal efficiency in any heat engine as being wholey dependent on the maximum temperature in the cycle. You'd need temperatures well over 10,000F to get efficiencies that would get 200mpg on a v-8. The maximum temperature you can run any engine at is limited by metallurgy and lubrication. Your pistons and valves would liquify instantly at 10,000F, you're oil would turn to carbon at 700F. This is why engines have thermostats at 180F, to keep them from frying. These phantom carburetors are all nonsense. The honda insight which got 90 mpg did it with a tiny, low friction loss engine, outstanding aerodynamics, and by running at near full throttle and then coasting a while, all at 35 mph or so. This type of driving maximizes fuel efficiency, as gas engines run their most efficient( hp per unit of fuel consumed) when running wide open (highest safe combustion temperature, and lowest losses from engine vacuum pulling against the pistons during the intake stroke). The car company that comes out with a 200 mpg conventionally sized car would make many many billions in its first year of production. They havent done it because it's an impossible dream to do it with just a carburetor. Sorry folks, but you're all dreaming.

Ken Jones must be one of the Petroleum Company staff or sort of. Don't fool us with your words of "wishdom". I have seen a small drop amount of fuel ignited with tremendous heat and light generated. Those people died after invented something which can threaten the benefit of petoleum company will die. Aren't it that way? They will assainate who ever try to make fuel uprofitable.

Ken Jones Obviously you have learned what you know from a text book. A text book tells you what you can and cant do. Just like a water power car is imposible ay. The people that have made such a unit never read any info from a text book. They went and did it. George Wiseman from Eagle Research built many fuel saving units and never was trained from a text book. A text book is made from and designed to tell you what you need to know. Vested intrest (Oil companies) spend lots on helping designs on what machanics need to know. Thats why you see donations of equipement to collages so they got thier foot in the door. They dont want the secrets to get out so they loose money. If you believed everything that is written from a text book you deserve to be the normal idiot that will get now where in life. Just like our doctors text books. There are plenty of cures for cancer but our docters arnt trained for this cause our governments cant afford to cure everyone. Its a fact. Pull yta heads out of the sand and explore. Sorry...Ken Johns how much do you get paid to write that garbage you just wrote on behalf of what ever oil intrest.

the problem with a 200 mile per gallon carburator is that if you want to get a patent for it it is like a free energy device which falls under the dept.of defense so if you apply for a patent you cant do anything with it for ten years.the govt.has all the info they need to produce these but they are so tied in with oil companies and big dollars that it will never happen.they just dont care

Sorry guys, I'm just a damned good mechanic/world class mad scientist tinkerer with a mechanical engineering/thermodynamics background, I'm not an oil company assassin or spokesman. Truths: yes, you can improve gas mileage by running as engine super lean (up to the point where it starts misfiring), yes you can use exhaust heat to provide heat of vaporization for your fuel and improve your mileage slightly, yes you can fool with air fuel ratios and intake temperatures to the point where your engine runs weak and thus gain the benefit of running nearly wide open just to produce half the horsepower( wide open throttle reduces losses due to engine vacuum pulling against the pistons on the intake stroke). High temperature intakes also reduce the density of the incoming mixture and keep the engine from drawing in a large volume of air, killing your maximum horsepower. It also immensely increases nitrous oxide emissions (causes smog) . You can do much better by putting a 20 hp conventional engine in your car and running it wide open all the time. You can run an engine with water injection in the intake, thus increasing the density and volume of the intake charge and get more available horsepower( the same thing happens with good old fashioned nitrous oxide setups you see at the race track) but you'll also just be using MORE fuel boiling all this water and tossing the steam ( and the energy it took to boil it) out the exhaust pipe. The sad truth is that unless you want to run with no power or fry your engine in a few hundred miles,or unless you have huge money to build an engine that can withstand super high temperatures by using ceramics, titanium, and some nonexistant miracle oil that won't degrade at high temps then you cant beat a smaller harder working conventional fuel injected engine. Believe what you want, believe in your conspiracy theories if it makes you happy, but the fuel injection computer knows far better than you guys how to get maximum efficiency without pollution. Dream on guys.

Ken I take it you have played or experimented with EFI vehicals or know someone that has and failed. I can explain this and its a simple modifacation to trick the computer. If you add a fuel saver of some sort eg a vapor system, water injection or extra fuel system the computer reads it as extra vacume and adds fuel. George Wiseman over come this problem with a simple mod to trick the computer and no engine parts got extra hot or melted. I have also proved you can run a car on vapor (experimeted with an MGB with SU carbs) as well to cut down the fuel usage on the carb as not all fuel vaporises. EFI is a different kettle of fish to play with when adding any vapor unit such as the HYCO or what ever. Ken you being a scientist enthusist or hobbyist or what ever, would you agree with me that only vapor burns in a engine. If only vapor burns in an engine we can lean the engine down and run it but the engine will get hot and start doing damage. Car manufactures overcome this by richening the fuel system which is what we know to slow down the heat process. Ok why cant we keep the engine lean and then use water injection or a vapor unit to cool the temps down. Would you agree by only using vapor in a engine that it would run cooler. Would you also agree that you would have more power as only vapor burns. If we had a system with adding more vapor so we can cut back our exsisting fuel system would you agree that we can throw away the catalac converter. Ken if your a smart man which no doubt you are what would happen id you decided to start using a pump to blow bubbles in your fuel tank. We would creater more fumes or vapor is that correct. Lets forget the danger of a backfire as this can be overcome with a backfire arrester or one way valve. If we were to add this vapor to our exsisting fuel system wouldnt we lean of the carb. Ok number one Temps wouldnt be as hot cause more vapor is burning than before. You have the vapor burning from your normal carb with this extra vapor so we now have more vapor in our combustion chamber than before with more power and less polution is that correct. We can govern how much vapor we want by how much air we blow through the tank. Now im not considering that we could also use a water heater hose and heat up a return line if we had one to create extra vapor as well in the tank or using a heater water coil in the tank to get more vapor as well. Ok we still need to run a carb or injecters to swirt some fuel as not all fuel can vaporise completely. Also Ken what would happen if we started heating up our oil vapor from the breather on the cyclinder head or tappet cover that goes to the intake manifold. If we wraped a copper coil around the exsust manifold and sent the oil vapors from the engine and heated them up arnt we breaking it down into a burnable state. I have proved this on a desiel and now get an extra 28% milage by something so simple and cheap. People say what if you got a back fire well iv been driving the van like that for months and months and havnt encounted such thing. So Ken what we have to ask is how much fuel in our fuel system acually burns as vapor to combust considering our catalact converter burns most of it cause we need an engine to be richened up so it dont melt. Id say less than 40% actually burns in the combustion chamber if that. We all read from a text book what we can do or cant do. But is our text book genuan. Oil companies control car companies and also machanics are only taught how to fix something, not make it better. Why arnt machanics taught this. You cant tell me its a conspirisy theroy. I am currently working on the Joe cell which is a water fuel cell. Scientist say it takes to much power to create enough hydrogen to power a car. Well the Joe cell uses water but you dont need lots of power to run it. You and others say well keep dreaming your being conned. Well at lest 6 people i know has a working unit and im going to see one in the next week or two and will take my cell with me so i can be shown the craft of it to get it running myself. This unit can do well over 400kms on a cup and a half of water. No one can explain how and why it works. No text book even mentions it and denys such thing is posible. Explain that. No comspirisy there, just a working unit that no scientist invented, a back yard guy with no scientific education invented it and many other backyard guys are getting thiers working. Ken we have to ask our selves is the text book viable with what it says, is it genuan. If you want to fly over and come with me to see this working unit you are very welcome. Throw away that text book and start gain.



Damien, I truly wish you luck with your endeavors. I do have a couple questions though. My old carbureted 351 windsor ford van (18mpg/ pretty good for a clubwagon)) with no catalytic converter had less than 200 parts per million of hydrocarbons in the exhaust. That's less than two one hundredths of one percent of unburned fuel. If the fuel were a hundred dollars, the unburned fuel in the exhaust would be two cents. IT ALL BURNS!!!!!! On the compression stroke the temp