Burrfoot Profile Blog Joined July 2012 United States 1176 Posts Last Edited: 2013-09-19 02:22:15 #1



With the recent big news of the Diablo 3 auction houses closing down, I figured I'd reminisce and post a (b)log of my interaction with the auction houses. When I first heard of the RMAH, I thought it was great idea. A safe way to sell in-game stuff and have a hobby pay for itself. I had previously had experience selling online gaming accounts and currencies in my time playing AC2, FFXI, and WoW. I had even spent money on TCG loot in WoW for vanity mounts, so am not against buying stuff outside a game. TL;DR + Show Spoiler +

End Result of the RMAH experience: $6.83/hr End Result of the RMAH experience:



Patch 1.02 +$391.41



This was the patch when the RMAH came online. My very first item I sold when the RMAH came online was actually a Skycutter - for $2. At the time the big news was the massive nerf to Increase Attack Speed items by 50%, and I was very keen on selling all the ias items I had at the time before the patch 1.03 hit. I was stuck on Act 3 at the time, and figured I'd cash out. This was my "crown jewel" at the time, a reward from pot farming in Act 4:



Notice the 17% ias? Well that screenshot was taken in 1.02. I had 1 week to sell it before 1.03 went live, and had to settle for less than $250:



Patch 1.03 +$1,407.32



So the massive IAS nerf hit, and I was back to farming Act 1. This was when I considered flipping for the first time, since I had only decided to sell stuff for paypal after my battlenet balance had already capped out at $250, so needed some way to convert balance to paypal. 1.03 was when I began the systematic scanning and flipping of 1d12 auctions and price differential between GAH and RMAH. I concentrated on a few specific items to know the market - String of ears, Blackthrone's medal, Stormshields, vile wards, Nat's Mark, and rare weapons. Many folks would list items for far less than they were worth back then, with several times I would buy an item on GAH for 100k, and flip it for paypal: + Show Spoiler +



Patch 1.04 +$1,272.90



This was the magic Paragon patch with improved legendaries. Near the end of 1.03 after I had defeated Inferno Diablo, I started leveling Wiz, Barb, and DH, and I was debating changing my main class from Monk to DH; but after datamined nerf to caltrops proc coefficient, my tanky DH was DoA and I began the journey to Plvl 100 monk-stylez. It was around this time I was looking for quick farming routes and discovered an obsure video of a Monk using tailwind. I quickly bought loads of spirit regen gear for cheap, and widened my flipping checklist to the new legendaries. I believe my happiest moment was finding my first 1.04 set item ever: a Nat's Embrace



Patch 1.05 +$937.91



With the introduction of Monster Power and Infernal Machines, I actually spent quite a bit of time playing instead of camping the AH like a good flipper, plus decided to use some sellable gear to compete in MP7+ clears. I started for focus on flipping Monk gears since I could test them out and use them a few times, and even found a monk upgrade twice!



Patch 1.06 +$186.10



Bleh patch? I don't remember and had to look up the date it went live. Gave up on several markets by now, and got lazy and only watched Shenlong's for a while. It's amazing what folks will pay for a sub par ugly looking fist with a socket!



Patch 1.07 +$707.25



Brawling! Woo! Tried to play the PvP flipping market and ended up with terrible margins. Only mildly successful flips involved zero dogs.



Patch 1.08 +$2,359.96



Ahh the infamous gold duping patch. When the stack size increased from 1 to 10 but only allowed for 2,147,483,648 gold to be removed (or something). I didn't have the bank to do it myself thankfully, but worked the gem markets the instant I saw their value skyrocket. Started patch 1.08 with 4 radiants and 200m gold, and ended with approximately 10b gold before the servers went down. After a long hiatus of gold duper banning, and auctionhouseless farming, I was online near the exact moment the RMAH came back online friday night and was able to put my 1b x10 stacks of gold at the front of what I assume was a massive gold selling queue. With the old stack size of 1b temporarily restored and a week of pent up auction house demand, someone richer than me bought all my gold at $250/b x10 x10 Paragon 100.



I only recently came back to grind a few paragon levels on the Demon Hunter when I heard the expansion would combine all accumulated exp, but then lost interest actually playing and just troll the forums. Don't even have enough gold to consume the demonic essences I have, as I'm currently sporting ~$150 balance and 11m gold with no desire to flip or convert to paypal. Got to buy the expansion and Titan somehow right?



Final Tally



Can't say if I would have played D3 for as long as I did if it wasn't for the RMAH, as my short time losing interest in Torchlight 2 after playthrough#1 tells me anything. I'm the type of player that needs the constant carrot of MMO-type progression that I feel the RMAH was a substitute for. Ahh well, it's demise cuts both ways for me, as I may not bother to play the expansion nearly as long as I would have otherwise. I certainly don't play console games or shooters for more than a month - and D3 seems to be headed towards console direction. I used RMAH funds to even buy a collector's edition which netted me an extra standard edition key to put up even more auctions with. Never did that in the 8 years I played WoW.



Monk: 857 hours

Demon Hunter: 104 hours

Rest: ~100 hours

Total Hours Wasted: ~1064



(I like the time played by class result!)







End Result of the RMAH experience: $6.83/hr



+$391.41This was the patch when the RMAH came online. My very first item I sold when the RMAH came online was actually a Skycutter - for $2. At the time the big news was the massive nerf to Increase Attack Speed items by 50%, and I was very keen on selling all the ias items I had at the time before the patch 1.03 hit. I was stuck on Act 3 at the time, and figured I'd cash out. This was my "crown jewel" at the time, a reward from pot farming in Act 4: + Show Spoiler + Notice the 17% ias? Well that screenshot was taken in 1.02. I had 1 week to sell it before 1.03 went live, and had to settle for less than $250: + Show Spoiler + +$1,407.32So the massive IAS nerf hit, and I was back to farming Act 1. This was when I considered flipping for the first time, since I had only decided to sell stuff for paypal after my battlenet balance had already capped out at $250, so needed some way to convert balance to paypal. 1.03 was when I began the systematic scanning and flipping of 1d12 auctions and price differential between GAH and RMAH. I concentrated on a few specific items to know the market - String of ears, Blackthrone's medal, Stormshields, vile wards, Nat's Mark, and rare weapons. Many folks would list items for far less than they were worth back then, with several times I would buy an item on GAH for 100k, and flip it for paypal: + Show Spoiler + +$1,272.90This was the magic Paragon patch with improved legendaries. Near the end of 1.03 after I had defeated Inferno Diablo, I started leveling Wiz, Barb, and DH, and I was debating changing my main class from Monk to DH; but after datamined nerf to caltrops proc coefficient, my tanky DH was DoA and I began the journey to Plvl 100 monk-stylez. It was around this time I was looking for quick farming routes and discovered an obsure video of a Monk using tailwind. I quickly bought loads of spirit regen gear for cheap, and widened my flipping checklist to the new legendaries. I believe my happiest moment was finding my first 1.04 set item ever: a Nat's Embrace + Show Spoiler + +$937.91With the introduction of Monster Power and Infernal Machines, I actually spent quite a bit of time playing instead of camping the AH like a good flipper, plus decided to use some sellable gear to compete in MP7+ clears. I started for focus on flipping Monk gears since I could test them out and use them a few times, and even found a monk upgrade twice! + Show Spoiler + +$186.10Bleh patch? I don't remember and had to look up the date it went live. Gave up on several markets by now, and got lazy and only watched Shenlong's for a while. It's amazing what folks will pay for a sub par ugly looking fist with a socket!+$707.25Brawling! Woo! Tried to play the PvP flipping market and ended up with terrible margins. Only mildly successful flips involved zero dogs.+$2,359.96Ahh the infamous gold duping patch. When the stack size increased from 1 to 10 but only allowed for 2,147,483,648 gold to be removed (or something). I didn't have the bank to do it myself thankfully, but worked the gem markets the instant I saw their value skyrocket. Started patch 1.08 with 4 radiants and 200m gold, and ended with approximately 10b gold before the servers went down. After a long hiatus of gold duper banning, and auctionhouseless farming, I was online near thethe RMAH came back online friday night and was able to put my 1b x10 stacks of gold at the front of what I assume was a massive gold selling queue. With the old stack size of 1brestored and a week of pent up auction house demand, someone richer than me bought all my gold at $250/b + Show Spoiler + I only recently came back to grind a few paragon levels on the Demon Hunter when I heard the expansion would combine all accumulated exp, but then lost interest actually playing and just troll the forums. Don't even have enough gold to consume the demonic essences I have, as I'm currently sporting ~$150 balance and 11m gold with no desire to flip or convert to paypal. Got to buy the expansion and Titan somehow right?Can't say if I would have played D3 for as long as I did if it wasn't for the RMAH, as my short time losing interest in Torchlight 2 after playthrough#1 tells me anything. I'm the type of player that needs the constant carrot of MMO-type progression that I feel the RMAH was a substitute for. Ahh well, it's demise cuts both ways for me, as I may not bother to play the expansion nearly as long as I would have otherwise. I certainly don't play console games or shooters for more than a month - and D3 seems to be headed towards console direction. I used RMAH funds to even buy a collector's edition which netted me an extra standard edition key to put up even more auctions with. Never did that in the 8 years I played WoW.Monk: 857 hoursDemon Hunter: 104 hoursRest: ~100 hoursTotal Hours Wasted: ~1064(I like the time played by class result!)End Result of the RMAH experience: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Davlok-1847/career

Chairman Ray Profile Blog Joined December 2009 United States 11515 Posts #2 A lot of money made! Shame it's less than minimum wage at the end =P

DarkPlasmaBall Profile Blog Joined March 2010 United States 38921 Posts #3 Wow, that's awesome! It's really too bad that the RMAH became broken and had to be taken down, although I haven't played D3 in a long time. Well done on making money! I wonder who's made the most money from D3/ how much they made. "There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100

Ettick Profile Blog Joined June 2011 United States 2329 Posts #4 On September 19 2013 11:49 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:

Wow, that's awesome! It's really too bad that the RMAH became broken and had to be taken down, although I haven't played D3 in a long time. Well done on making money! I wonder who's made the most money from D3/ how much they made.

Someone sold an echoing fury with absurd rolls for 7500 euro.

I think it's safe to say people have made a lot of money off this game. Someone sold an echoing fury with absurd rolls for 7500 euro.I think it's safe to say people have made a lot of money off this game.

Jindo Profile Joined July 2011 United States 980 Posts #5 What is the ratio of your time spent playing the market vs time spent playing the game?

radscorpion9 Profile Blog Joined March 2011 Canada 2244 Posts Last Edited: 2013-09-19 03:50:18 #6 Wow its astonishing how much work and skill can go into using the auction house (at least as I see it perhaps a bit superficially), but it only comes out to $6 an hour. Thank god, I thought I was missing out on some get rich quick scheme

Sotoshi Profile Joined September 2013 United Kingdom 24 Posts #7 Sad to see the blizzard would remove equality from the game. What are you supposed to do when someone has a better item? Seems unfair. Hopefully they'll implement a mechanic that would allow people to have equal damage to those that spent more time getting better loot.

Terranist Profile Blog Joined March 2009 United States 2490 Posts #8 does the time spent by class include flipping the auction house or is it only in game? The Show of a Lifetime

BigFan Profile Blog Joined December 2010 TLADT 24439 Posts #9 That's quite a bit of cash you made. I know friends of mine were busy selling and such but I doubt any of them got even close to how much you made lol. Former BW EiC "Watch Bakemonogatari or I will kill you." -Toad, April 18th, 2017

obesechicken13 Profile Blog Joined July 2008 United States 6599 Posts #10 Does Blizzard make money from the AH? Transaction fees? If so why would they remove a source of revenue? I think in our modern age technology has evolved to become more addictive. The things that don't give us pleasure aren't used as much. Work was never meant to be fun, but doing it makes us happier in the long run.

ETisME Profile Blog Joined April 2011 Hong Kong 11898 Posts #11 holy shit, no wonder why I see some people playing diablo 3 without any expression in netcafe.

they just want to grind hard for items to sell @@ 其疾如风，其徐如林，侵掠如火，不动如山，难知如阴，动如雷震。

obesechicken13 Profile Blog Joined July 2008 United States 6599 Posts #12 On September 19 2013 16:02 ETisME wrote:

holy shit, no wonder why I see some people playing diablo 3 without any expression in netcafe.

they just want to grind hard for items to sell @@

It's hard to imagine Blizzard didn't forsee that they'd cause people to become gold farmers if they supported a way to make money in the game. It's hard to imagine Blizzard didn't forsee that they'd cause people to become gold farmers if they supported a way to make money in the game. I think in our modern age technology has evolved to become more addictive. The things that don't give us pleasure aren't used as much. Work was never meant to be fun, but doing it makes us happier in the long run.

Tobberoth Profile Joined August 2010 Sweden 5761 Posts #13 On September 19 2013 15:53 obesechicken13 wrote:

Does Blizzard make money from the AH? Transaction fees? If so why would they remove a source of revenue?

They take a percentage on all sales.



They are probably removing it because it ruins the game and they realized the can't make it fun with it in there. I assume their profit was marginal as well. They take a percentage on all sales.They are probably removing it because it ruins the game and they realized the can't make it fun with it in there. I assume their profit was marginal as well.

esReveR Profile Joined February 2010 United States 507 Posts Last Edited: 2013-09-19 07:28:18 #14 On September 19 2013 15:53 obesechicken13 wrote:

Does Blizzard make money from the AH? Transaction fees? If so why would they remove a source of revenue?



The D3 lead said in a video that they are removing the auction houses from the game because they believe it destroys the integrity of the game; basically it allows you to not have to grind to find the perfect items. But, I doubt that is the real reason because the GAH made it so that people couldn't get scammed and didn't have to use 3rd party websites to trade items. I think they just don't want us to know what the real reason is (maybe something to do with PayPal for the RMAH? -- Don't have any speculations about the GAH removal). The D3 lead said in a video that they are removing the auction houses from the game because they believe it destroys the integrity of the game; basically it allows you to not have to grind to find the perfect items. But, I doubt that is the real reason because the GAH made it so that people couldn't get scammed and didn't have to use 3rd party websites to trade items. I think they just don't want us to know what the real reason is (maybe something to do with PayPal for the RMAH? -- Don't have any speculations about the GAH removal). Skill is relative.

Burrfoot Profile Blog Joined July 2012 United States 1176 Posts Last Edited: 2013-09-19 09:11:42 #15 On September 19 2013 11:41 Chairman Ray wrote:

A lot of money made! Shame it's less than minimum wage at the end =P



Hah yea, but that's way more than the big fat -$30 I made off 2000 hours of counterstrike, or the -years- playing WoW!



Hah yea, but that's way more than the big fat -$30 I made off 2000 hours of counterstrike, or the -years- playing WoW! On September 19 2013 13:30 Terranist wrote:

does the time spent by class include flipping the auction house or is it only in game?



Probably only in-game. The final time-spent ratio is definitely lower.



Probably only in-game. The final time-spent ratio is definitely lower. On September 19 2013 13:22 Sotoshi wrote:

Sad to see the blizzard would remove equality from the game. What are you supposed to do when someone has a better item? Seems unfair. Hopefully they'll implement a mechanic that would allow people to have equal damage to those that spent more time getting better loot.



Yea, I never understood why some items were bought at all. Looking back now at some rare I sold boggles my mind. But that was the thing, I was never ranked on diabloprogress for anything. I never broke 200k dps on my Monk or soloed any MP10 ubers, or the like. My enjoyment out of the game was very much RMAH related, which I guess is the point of shutting down the AHs. If they can pull off having playing the game the best source of items - even so much as targetting drops based on which skills you use and which items you already have in your inventory, that would be awesome.



Yea, I never understood why some items were bought at all. Looking back now at some rare I sold boggles my mind. But that was the thing, I was never ranked on diabloprogress for anything. I never broke 200k dps on my Monk or soloed any MP10 ubers, or the like. My enjoyment out of the game was very much RMAH related, which I guess is the point of shutting down the AHs. If they can pull off having playing the game the best source of items -, that would be awesome. On September 19 2013 15:53 obesechicken13 wrote:

Does Blizzard make money from the AH? Transaction fees? If so why would they remove a source of revenue?



Blizzard takes a 15% cut of any paypal sale as a transaction fee, then paypal takes 15% cut of that as a transfer fee. I will assume Blizzard get a pre-negotiated small cut of the 2nd 15% as well. Selling items for Blizzard balance is only a $1 fee, or 15% for commodities. (which is why I capped balance first in 1.02) The data shown is after fees (csv file export from paypal), so who knows how much profit Blizzard generated from the RMAH as a whole. Obviously not enough to justify keeping it up while sacrificing gameplay and eventually playerbase. Blizzard takes a 15% cut of any paypal sale as a transaction fee, then paypal takes 15% cut of that as a transfer fee. I will assume Blizzard get a pre-negotiated small cut of the 2nd 15% as well. Selling items for Blizzard balance is only a $1 fee, or 15% for commodities. (which is why I capped balance first in 1.02) The data shown is after fees (csv file export from paypal), so who knows how much profit Blizzard generated from the RMAH as a whole. Obviously not enough to justify keeping it up while sacrificing gameplay and eventually playerbase. http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Davlok-1847/career

LastWish Profile Blog Joined September 2004 2002 Posts Last Edited: 2013-09-19 11:59:46 #16 On September 19 2013 18:03 Burrfoot wrote:

Blizzard takes a 15% cut of any paypal sale as a transaction fee, then paypal takes 15% cut of that as a transfer fee. I will assume Blizzard get a pre-negotiated small cut of the 2nd 15% as well. Selling items for Blizzard balance is only a $1 fee, or 15% for commodities. (which is why I capped balance first in 1.02) The data shown is after fees (csv file export from paypal), so who knows how much profit Blizzard generated from the RMAH as a whole. Obviously not enough to justify keeping it up while sacrificing gameplay and eventually playerbase.





Wow that's quite a rake 15% * 15% -> almost 28%...

Considering you are one of many(personally I know one) who traded in large, Blizzard must have made millions...



Good read. Wow that's quite a rake 15% * 15% -> almost 28%...Considering you are one of many(personally I know one) who traded in large, Blizzard must have made millions...Good read. - It's all just treason - They bring me down with their lies - Don't know the reason - My life is fire and ice -

Burrfoot Profile Blog Joined July 2012 United States 1176 Posts #17 The double 15% is only for commodities sold thru PayPal. Actual items like weapons have a $1 fee only and then 15% transfer fee so it wasn't quite as bad, but limited the low end sales.



Even after all that I was always too risk averse to flip anything for $250, or ever needed or even liked a site like d2jsp. http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Davlok-1847/career

HeeroFX Profile Blog Joined November 2010 United States 2619 Posts #18 Yeah it is crazy that people who played this made so much. IDK why blizzard is shutting it down. Sure it could be tweeked better but I feel like blizzard thought process is retarded.

Stratos_speAr Profile Joined May 2009 United States 6410 Posts #19 On September 20 2013 00:08 HeeroFX wrote:

Yeah it is crazy that people who played this made so much. IDK why blizzard is shutting it down. Sure it could be tweeked better but I feel like blizzard thought process is retarded.



Because overwhelming feedback and evidence shows that the AH completely ruins everything that made Diablo 3 a Diablo game. The vast majority of people just farmed for gold and then bought everything off the AH (or just bought it with real money). The AH removed the core of any Diablo game; killing shit for loot. It was a horrific mechanic that was intensely criticized from the moment they announced the feature. Because overwhelming feedback and evidence shows that the AH completely ruins everything that made Diablo 3 a Diablo game. The vast majority of people just farmed for gold and then bought everything off the AH (or just bought it with real money). The AH removed the core of any Diablo game; killing shit for loot. It was a horrific mechanic that was intensely criticized from the moment they announced the feature. A sound mind in a sound body, is a short, but full description of a happy state in this World: he that has these two, has little more to wish for; and he that wants either of them, will be little the better for anything else.

StarStruck Profile Joined April 2010 24095 Posts Last Edited: 2013-09-20 05:25:01 #20



On September 20 2013 05:03 Stratos_speAr wrote:

Show nested quote +

On September 20 2013 00:08 HeeroFX wrote:

Yeah it is crazy that people who played this made so much. IDK why blizzard is shutting it down. Sure it could be tweeked better but I feel like blizzard thought process is retarded.



Because overwhelming feedback and evidence shows that the AH completely ruins everything that made Diablo 3 a Diablo game. The vast majority of people just farmed for gold and then bought everything off the AH (or just bought it with real money). The AH removed the core of any Diablo game; killing shit for loot. It was a horrific mechanic that was intensely criticized from the moment they announced the feature. Because overwhelming feedback and evidence shows that the AH completely ruins everything that made Diablo 3 a Diablo game. The vast majority of people just farmed for gold and then bought everything off the AH (or just bought it with real money). The AH removed the core of any Diablo game; killing shit for loot. It was a horrific mechanic that was intensely criticized from the moment they announced the feature.



Ding ding ding. They wanted to take away from the guy's who knew how to make a profit of such activities and let's face it. Gold selling/botting happens in every game. You cannot stop it. Dun dun dun. Thank you for making this post and it proves everything I said about the AH. Silly me for not jumping in on my friend's business venture for D2. He paid for his college and bought a condo with the money he made. Way better than minimum wage and heck, he hardly had to do shit with all the bots they had.Ding ding ding. They wanted to take away from the guy's who knew how to make a profit of such activities and let's face it. Gold selling/botting happens in every game. You cannot stop it.

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