QuidSapio Thinker

Join Date: 19 Apr 2013 Posts: 236 Threads: 5 Thanked 855 Times in 206 Posts

The Alleged Medical Witnesses





Sushrut Jangi MD

http://connects.catalyst.harvard.edu...ay/Person/6626

Role in Boston Marathon bombing:

Claims to have been in the medical tent.



What they claim to have observed:

"At the first blast site,[another doctor] saw bodies piled on top of each other in an area maybe 20 feet by 40 feet...



...An injured woman  I couldn't tell whether she was conscious  lay on the stretcher, her legs entirely blown off. Blood poured out of the arteries of her torso; I saw shredded arteries, veins, ragged tissue and muscle....



Clear the aisles! Andersen called. More victims followed: someone whose legs had been charred black, another man with a foot full of metal shrapnel, a third with white bone shining through the thigh. I watched in shock as the victims were rushed down the center aisle to ambulances at the far end of the tent.



Many of us barely laid our hands on anyone. We had no trauma surgeons or supplies of blood products; tourniquets had already been applied; CPR had already been performed...many of us watched these passing victims in a kind of idle horror, with no idea how to help.



I drifted among the beds, ashamed that there was no other skill I could contribute. Nearly every physician I saw looked back at me with the same numb, futile expression..."



http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp1305299





Questions:

I can't help noticing your description of the first blast site - " bodies piled on top of each other in an area of maybe 20 feet by 40 feet" - bears no resemblance to any known photographic image of the site, even those taken immediately after the explosion.





- bears no resemblance to any known photographic image of the site, even those taken immediately after the explosion. I am curious about the identity of the woman you describe as having her legs " entirely blown off ." The only female double-amputee I am currently aware of is Celeste Corcoran, and her injuries in no way resemble that description. Her legs were not blown off, they were (allegedly) partially amputated after the fact. It isn't Celeste...so, who is it?





." The only female double-amputee I am currently aware of is Celeste Corcoran, and her injuries in no way resemble that description. Her legs were not blown off, they were (allegedly) partially amputated after the fact. It isn't Celeste...so, The injuries you describe, " blood pour[ing] out of her torso " means major vessels, such as the aorta or vena cava were ruptured, which would result in almost instant death. So this lady must be one of the two that died. But neither of the women who died sustained such an injury





" means major vessels, such as the aorta or vena cava were ruptured, which would result in almost instant death. So this lady must be one of the two that died. But You would seem to have witnessed a non-existent victim Dr Jangi. Does that concern you at all?





Your description of what happened inside the medical tent: " I watched in shock as the victims were rushed down the center aisle to ambulances at the far end of the tent. " - suggests the most severe trauma victims were not treated inside but removed straight to hospital.





" - suggests the most severe trauma victims were not treated inside but removed straight to hospital. But then you go on to say " We had no trauma surgeons or supplies of blood products... I drifted among the beds, ashamed that there was no other skill I could contribute. Nearly every physician I saw looked back at me with the same numb, futile expression... " which suggests the opposite, that severe trauma victims were being put in beds inside the tent and "treated" there even though there was nothing you could do for them.





" which suggests the opposite, that severe trauma victims were being put in beds inside the tent and "treated" there even though there was nothing you could do for them. Which is true?





If the latter - why? Why even attempt to deal with severe trauma victims in an unequipped medical tent when there were major hospitals no more than five minutes away?







Stephen Segatore, RN

https://www.facebook.com/stephen.segatore

Role in Boston Marathon bombing:

Claims to have been in the medical tent and to have been with Krystle Campbell when she died.



What they claim to have observed:

April 16:

"One of his first patients was a young woman, he thinks maybe 20 or 22 years old, whose abdomen was torn open. Her left leg was broken and facing the wrong way and she wasn't breathing. He and his colleagues did CPR on her and kept checking for a pulse, but there was none. They stopped when they realized it was futile."

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/04/16/us...ombings-nurses



April 26:

"...a woman arrived in critical condition, struggling to breathe...Segatore scanned her wounds, mostly on the left side of her body. One leg was twisted backwards, and she had a wound near her left hip. She had black markings on her head, possibly residue from being so close to the blast.

She had already been given several minutes of CPR by those who rushed her into the tent. Segatore offered her comforting words before taking over CPR.

I'm a nurse, he told her. You're in a tent at the finish line.

He tried to resuscitate her. They stopped CPR briefly to hook up a heart monitor. The screen showed squiggly lines, but the heart wasn't pumping blood. There was no pulse. The physician said to stop. "We knew what we had," Segatore said..."

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/04/22/he...rst-responders



Questions: Why did you change your story between April 16 and April 26?





Why on April 16 did you claim Krystle Campbells abdomen was torn open when photographs from the day show it was not even lacerated?





Why did you later drop this claim in favor of a vague story of a wound near her left hip?





Why in one story do you claim Krystle was conscious and in another that she was unresponsive? As an RN how could you be unsure of a factor as important as this?





Why do you claim her leg was turned backwards when it does not appear to be in any condition remotely like this in the one clear photograph we have of her?





As a nurse with 18-yrs experience, are you in the habit of referring to the output from a heart monitor as squiggly lines?









Jim Asaiante, RN

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/james-asaiante/52/12a/7b

Links to the military Role in Boston Marathon bombing:

Claims to have been in the medical tent. Says the experience was similar to his tour of duty in Iraq.

http://www.nurseuncut.com.au/nurses-of-boston/







Betty Sparks, RN

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/betty-sparks/1b/236/310 Role in Boston Marathon bombing:

Claims to have been in the medical tent. http://www.nationalnursesunited.org/...boston-bombing







Martin S. Levine, DO

http://www.osteopathic.org/inside-ao...in-levine.aspx Role in Boston Marathon bombing:

Claims to have been at the medical tent prior to the bombing and to have rushed out to triage the victims. Like Asaiante he made a point of comparing the scene to a "war zone." http://www.foxnews.com/health/2013/0...orrific-scene/



What they claim to have observed:

"I noticed immediately that people were lying in heaps, their legs either blown off, severely wounded or deformed completely...



One woman, who had sustained severe injuries to the back of her legs, was urging medical personnel to evacuate her husband, who had lost his leg around the knee. Two women Levine believed to be friends were laying in a heap together, their legs extremely deformed, as they desperately tried to get loved ones on the phone."





Questions: Just as with Dr Jangi (see above) you describe a scene  people were lying in heaps, their legs either blown off, severely wounded or deformed completely,  that is, at best, an exaggeration of anything visible in the photographic evidence.





(see above) you describe a scene   that is, at best, an exaggeration of anything visible in the photographic evidence. Who is the man who had  lost his leg around the knee  and whose wife sustained  severe injuries to the back of her legs ?





 and whose wife sustained  ? Who were these people? Can we identify them as any known victims?





Richard Guynes, MD

http://www.jacksonheart.com/about/ph.../dr.guynes.htm Role in Boston Marathon bombing:

Claims to have been at the medical tent and to have treated Krystle Campbell.http://www.msnewsnow.com/story/22008...n-medical-tent



What they claim to have observed:

"The first 10 to 20 were many gruesome injuries that I, of course, would not have ever seen as a cardiologist," Guynes explained.



Guynes' section helped stabilize those who didn't have life-threatening injuries. But other doctors were calling for assistance throughout the tent.



"I did have the opportunity to try to help a lady. Krystle Campbell, I believe is her name, who did ultimately pass away, unfortunately. She was already in shock and had bled a great deal before she made it into the tent. Her face, I've seen it on television. She looks completely different than when I saw her in the tent," said Guynes.





Questions: How usual is it for out of town physicians to be part of the Boston Marathon Medical team? And who invited you to join?





How many medical people worked on Krystle Campbell altogether?





As a physician do you wonder - and were you told - why severely injured patients were transferred to an inadequately prepared first aid tent rather than being taken to hospital asap?





Jocelyn Hirschman, MD

http://www.healthgrades.com/physicia...irschman-3bfbx Role in Boston Marathon bombing:

Claims to have been at the medical tent and helped treat severely injured victims.

http://bolingbrook.patch.com/article...hon-explosions



What they claim to have observed:

"The BAA medical teams and Boston EMS were amazing," Hirschman said. "They immediately converted the tent into a mass casualty triage center and organized us into teams to assist in stabilizing the injured. Despite the harrowing and gruesome images I will always carry with me, I also remember the true heroes of the day - the Boston EMS, the athletes and the brave injured.".





Questions: A  mass casualty triage center ? The entire point of triage is that it gets people moved away to treatment ASAP. You tag the victims by injury-status at the scene, and the most severely injured (usually tagged red) are removed directly to hospital. You do NOT engage bystanders to move all the casualties 100 yards down the road, in wheelchairs , to a first aid tent and then triage them there  because that would be dumb, useless and people would die who would otherwise be saved.





? The entire point of triage is that it gets people moved away to treatment ASAP. You tag the victims by injury-status at the scene, and the most severely injured (usually tagged red) are removed directly to hospital. You do NOT engage bystanders to move all the casualties 100 yards down the road, in , to a and then triage them there  because that would be dumb, useless and people would die who would otherwise be saved. Youre a physician. You have to know this is true. Why are you either talking bullshit or letting someone ghost bullshit in your name?









Kim Giroux, RN

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/kim-giroux/16/811/b17 Role in Boston Marathon bombing:

Claims to have been working in "Medical Tent A"

http://tewksbury.patch.com/articles/...ike-a-war-zone



What they claim to have observed:

In moments, Tent A transformed from a post-race triage unit, dealing with dehydration and the loss of electrolytes, to a full-blown trauma unit. Scores of casualties were brought in for emergency care. It was unlike anything the seasoned nurse had ever experienced.



"I had worked in an ER, so I'd seen (traumatic) injuries, but nothing like this. There was just lots and lots and lots of damage," said Giroux. "There were two people who were (declared) dead in Tent A. There were traumatic amputations, one man with both legs blown off by the explosion. There were people impaled by metal and glass -- compound fractures. It was like a war zone."



When children began being brought in for treatment, Giroux turned her attention toward them, putting her skills as a pediatric nurse to good use...



Questions: You worked in an ER  but never witnessed a severe road traffic accident, industrial accident, self-inflicted shot gun wound, or any physical injury comparable with the broken legs and amputations you saw during this incident?





witnessed a severe road traffic accident, industrial accident, self-inflicted shot gun wound, or any physical injury comparable with the broken legs and amputations you saw during this incident? May I ask where this amazingly luck emergency room is located? I want to live in that magical town.





You describe the first aid tent as being turned into a  full blown trauma unit.  Maybe the trauma units you worked in had no blood or emergency surgery, but most full blown trauma units have these things.





 Maybe the trauma units you worked in had no blood or emergency surgery, but most full blown trauma units have these things. Its why they are called trauma units.





Otherwise what you have is a first aid tent with an intensive care sign in one corner.





staffed by podiatrists....









Kim Kilby, MD

http://www.amc.edu/physiciandirector...f_rec_no=16204 Role in Boston Marathon bombing:

Claims to have been working in medical tent and to have been sent out to "triage" victims on site.

http://www.legislativegazette.com/Ar...-Marathon.html



What they claim to have observed:

"Kilby called the transition between treating runners and triage "instantaneous" saying there were perhaps a few moments of chaos among the doctors, but they transitioned quickly.



'Triage was set up in three different levels depending on how critically ill a patient is. Level one, the most grave, involved patients who were unconscious, having respiratory trouble, cardiovascular troubles and a large amount of bleeding that could cause either cardiovascular or respiratory difficulty. Level three, on the other hand, targeted people who were awake and alert but have an obvious injury, but their neurological and cardiovascular status was stable.'



The tent Kilby and her team were working in was 75 to 100 yards away from the finish line, close to where the initial blast occurred. Kilby was immediately put in charge of the second layer of triage toward the front of the medical tent.



'There were two doctors stationed outside of the medical tent and they would either triage people to my section, in the chairs or straight into the medical tent," Kilby said. "Essentially my job was to see if people really needed to be there or to get them on their way and give them a little bit more time to decide what was going on with them. I was right at the entrance to the medical tent.'"





Questions: " There were two doctors stationed outside of the medical tent and they would either triage people to my section, in the chairs or straight into the medical tent , - Aaaand here we are again with another alleged medical professional apparently having no problem with seeing a random collection of sick or dying people, loaded into wheelchairs and pushed 75-100 yards  down the road to be triaged.





, - Aaaand here we are again with another alleged medical professional apparently having no problem with seeing a random collection of sick or dying people, loaded into wheelchairs and pushed  down the road to be triaged. What if, after some of the patients have been wheeled to the tent, the triage doc discovers they had severe spinal injuries, needed a backboard and are now paralyzed from the neck down?





Or what if they bleed out while being wheeled down the road by a helpful cowboy, or waiting inline to be given their little red tags and sent to hospital?





See, this is why initial triage is done on the scene .





. Remember?









Alexander E. Halstead, RN

No LinkedIn or other professional page I could find but here is his name in a list of 2011 graduates:

http://healthcarenews.com/nursing-graduates-2011/ Role in Boston Marathon bombing:

Claims to have been with the EMS in the medical tent.

http://www.legislativegazette.com/Ar...-Marathon.html



What they claim to have observed:

"The first victim to come into the tent was an image I would never forget: a young man was wheeled in with both of his legs amputated by the blast. He was awake, and had mere strands of flesh hanging down from both of his legs [Bauman]. It was surreal... It was mass pandemonium. Triage sections were set up in the tent so that the victims with more severe injuries would be transported first. A subsection of the tent was assigned as the morgue.



I snapped into gear. I had the training, and now I just had to use it. I walked up to one of the victims awaiting transport(?). He already had tourniquets on both of his leg amputations, and the bleeding was controlled. I started an IV and hung fluids. But what else could I do for this man? He needed surgery and we could not do that in the tent. There were four other doctors and nurses around his stretcher, so I stepped back for a moment to collect my thoughts. Could this all be real? Or was this just a horrible nightmare that I would surface from soon?



...I then moved over to the Level 3 section of the tent. I found an adolescent girl and her mother who each sustained injuries to both legs. The girl was panicking that she would lose her legs. I reassured her. I started caring for the girl and her mother. I put in IVs, reviewed their injuries, and splinted their legs for transport. I even started taking a blood pressure on the mother, when I soon realized that the number is meaningless in the chaos of a mass-casualty incident.



About 25 minutes after the blast, we had all 97 of the blast victims who came through our tent transported to hospitals. We transferred the remaining runners to Medical Tent B. Shortly after, the police moved us out of the tent and sectioned the road off as a crime scene. I heard another bomb go off, but was reassured by another volunteer that it was a controlled detonation by Boston police.

"





Questions: Was the man you applied an IV to the same double amputee you described earlier? Was this Jeff Bauman? Why was such a severely injured man "awaiting transport" and relying on you to wander over and start an IV? Why had he not been transported to hospital immediately?





As an RN why would you consider a patient's blood pressure to be "meaningless in the chaos of a mass-casualty incident"? Why would you not be aware that her b/p was a vital indicator of how badly she was bleeding out?





What was the rationale behind attempting to treat people with potential "neurological, cardiovascular" and airway trauma in a first aid tent? What could be done for them there that could not be done better in an ambulance on the way to hospital?





As a nurse were you not concerned that the delays in emergency care caused by treating severe trauma in an inadequately prepared medical tent might result in unnecessary deaths?











Alex Coletta, RN

NO INFORMATION FOUND SO FAR TO VERIFY IDENTITY Role in Boston Marathon bombing:

Claims to have been with the EMS in the medical tent.

http://byond.phablettrend.com/marath...seen-usa-today



What they claim to have observed:

...Three people carried in a woman. One of her legs was blown off. Someone was holding it. The woman was dripping blood all over and wailing in pain, Coletta says. I have never seen anything like that, she says. I will always remember that."



When people came in, we used coats, belts, anything we could to stop the bleeding, she says. One woman had a life-threatening injury to her heel, bleeding profusely from an artery, Coletta says. Debris from the blast must have also hit her in the mouth, because her lips were also bleeding. A mans belt was used on the womans thigh to stop the bleeding, and Coletta dressed the heel wound.



She assisted another woman with a broken leg who had a tibia bone sticking through the skin. Coletta says she held the wounded leg while waiting for EMS personnel to come with a splint. It was the first time she had ever seen a bone sticking out of someones skin, she says. Coletta also tended to a young man with two broken legs who was crying a bit and in shock. He was shaking and blankets were put around him. It looked like he had lost a lot of blood and something had crushed his ribs, she says. He had indentations in his chest. She assisted at least two other people with less serious injuries  one bleeding from an arm injury and one with a facial injury.



Medical workers set up a morgue in the back of the tent where, two hours earlier, Coletta had a pleasant lunch with nursing colleagues. She says an adult who died in the bombing was on a cot, covered by a sheet. It absolutely had an effect on me, Coletta says. It froze me. I didnt know whether to go over to the person or get back to assisting others. She wonders whether the body was a person who had been in cardiac arrest, carried on a stretcher as EMS workers pounded on the chest.

"





Questions: Can you identify the woman with one leg blown off, the woman with the open tib fracture and the man with two broke legs?





Using a belt as a tourniquet is standard, but as an RN you must be aware that a "coat" would be useless as a method to "stop the bleeding," so why were you and other trained personnel attempting to use such a thing for the purpose? Why did you not obey your training and use bandages, scarves, or anything that could be tied or twisted appropriately?





If you are indeed a qualified nurse, isn't it quite strange that you had never seen a traumatic amputation before? Isn't it even stranger that you had never seen an open tibia fracture? Did you never work in orthopedics, or an ER? Did you never even study trauma as part of your training? Don't you think describing an open fracture as a "bone sticking out of someone's skin." is an odd way for a trained RN to talk?







seen a traumatic amputation before? Isn't it even stranger that you had Did you never work in orthopedics, or an ER? Did you never even study trauma as part of your training? Don't you think describing an open fracture as a "bone sticking out of someone's skin." is an odd way for a trained RN to talk? You also say that the sight of a dead body covered by a sheet "froze" you. Are you claiming that you never saw a dead body before either? Would it be fair to suggest at this point that your training sounds to have been a bit lacking in some major areas?







Fred H. Brennan jr, MD

Links to the military:

http://www.sosmed.org/fred-brennan.html Role in Boston Marathon bombing:

Claims to have been in "medical tent B".

http://blogs.bmj.com/bjsm/2013/05/13...ston-marathon/



What they claim to have observed:

"We heard and felt the blasts. Everyone in the medical tent froze in place. The flat screen monitors went dead, cell phones stopped working, and we lost all communications with the rest of the medical command. I stood on a milk crate and got on the tent intercom system. We all need to stay calm. We dont know what has happened yet but there is a good chance that we will receive causalities. Stay in the tent, take care and stabilize your current athletes, and lets get the tent ready to receive trauma casualties. The response from the volunteers was incredible. No panic, no hesitation, and a total team effort. During this time the first responders at the finish line, including Tent A marathon medical personnel, heroically triaged and stabilized the casualties. We were told to stay put in Med Tent B as the blast area was not secured and more explosive devices were possible. We received 3 minor shrapnel injured patients and saw the psychological effect on the spectators. People were running frantically trying to either get away from the blast area or looking in horror for their loved ones in our medical tent. Runners were diverted to the Boston Commons as the course finish area was secured and evacuated. Amazingly most of the casualties were evacuated from the finish area within 30 minutes. It was an incredulous(sic) response to a tragic event.

"





Questions: The photographs show us that the large majority of severe traumas were "triaged" by non-medical people applying inadequate and potentially life-threatening tourniquets. Given this obvious lack of trained staff on the scene, does it not seem odd that you and the other medical personnel in "tent B" were told to stay away and wait in the tent?





Vivek M. Shah, MD

http://www.healthgrades.com/physicia...ek-shah-3fbkwl Role in Boston Marathon bombing:

Claims to have run the marathon, bib no 21943 and then helped out on the street after the blast.

http://video.msnbc.msn.com/martin-ba...61272#51935422



What they claim to have observed:

"we heard a loud boom and we saw a big puff of smoke "



He witnessed "traumatic amputations of one leg, both legs, it just looked like everybody was in shock. If you looked into all the victims' eyes, they really didn't know where they were.... "



"...people were using their marathon long sleeve shirts. the thing that was amazing was i was only 25 yards away and by the time i got there, the first responders, the volunteer physicians, were already there. so i've never really seen a response as quick as what i saw yesterday."



"I just tried to see if anybody needed any emergent care if anybody was bleeding out, myself and some of the other emergency personnel put on some makeshift tourniquets "



"but within a minute he said emergency physicians were on site attending to every victim"







Questions: What were people using their "marathon long-sleeved shirts" for? If the answer is (as it usually seems to be) "tourniquets" then, as a trained physician, you must know a long-sleeved shirt would be useless for such a practice and would probably make the bleeding worse. So, why are you talking about it on TV as if it was a good thing?





You say you have "never really seen a response as quick" - but video and photographs of the scene show severely injured patients left lying unattended on the sidewalk while EMTs stand by. They show apparently serious casualties being attended by unqualified members of the public and a majority of tourniquets applied incorrectly so as to be a hazard to survival. They also show that severely injured people were treated in the first aid tent rather than being transferred immediately to hospitals, even though the tent had no blood or other trauma-management resources. In what sense, then, do you consider the response of the emergency team to have been "quick"? Do you also consider it to have been appropriate?





Given the plurality and frequency of failures listed above would you not agree that, far from being an unusual success, the emergency response was incoherent, inexplicable, and counter-productive? Would you not also agree it's miraculous that more people didn't die from their injuries?







Gregory Antoine, MD

http://www.bumc.bu.edu/surgery/people/antoine

Links to the military (Residency: Walter Reed Army Medical Center)

Role in Boston Marathon bombing:

Claims to have been in the ER at Boston General



What they claim to have observed:

"The emergency room was like a zoo. People were crying, screaming. The injuries looked like those you would find in a combat zone.



Of dozens Antoine helped treat, two stand out: One was a man who had both his legs blown off. As Antoine worked on him, drapes concealed everything but the mans mangled limbs. A couple of days later, Antoine realized it was the person in the iconic photo  Jeff Bauman being wheeled to a makeshift medical tent...



The other patient was a 65-year-old man who had flown from California to see his daughter-in-law finish the race. Shrapnel severed the sciatic nerve in his left leg. "That's the nerve that controls motor skills," Antoine said. "I met his wife and son. Really nice people. The man was a contractor who built hospitals, of all things." "

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/n...sippi/2324305/





Questions: You claim in one part of the article that you were " in the emergency room that day helping to decide which patients needed surgery the quickest, " but in another that " drapes concealed everything but [Jeff Bauman's] mangled limbs " while you worked on him. The latter sounds as if he was in theatre and you were operating.





" but in another that " " while you worked on him. The latter sounds as if he was in theatre and you were operating. So, were you in the ER triaging patients, or in the OR operating on them?





Your specialty is otolaryngology and facial reconstructive surgery, not orthopedics, so, if your second story is the true one, why were you operating on Bauman's legs and the unnamed gentleman's sciatic nerve? Presumably they have orthopedic surgeons and neuro surgeons at BG? Surely Bauman would have been a priority for them, and you ought to have been dealing with facial lacerations - or did normal protocol just completely go to hell that day?





orthopedics, so, if your second story is the true one, Presumably they have orthopedic surgeons and neuro surgeons at BG? Surely Bauman would have been a priority for them, and you ought to have been dealing with facial lacerations - or did normal protocol just completely go to hell that day? At what point in your basic training were you told to describe the sciatic nerve as the one " that controls motor skills "? The sciatic nerve controls sensation and movement in the lower limb.





"? The sciatic nerve controls sensation and movement in the lower limb. As an "associate professor of surgery" you probably ought to know that - especially before you try to repair one. If it's ok with the mods I thought it might be a good idea to keep an ongoing list here and to update the initial post as new info emerges. Any more suggestions for names to be included?No LinkedIn or other professional page I could find but here is his name in a list of 2011 graduates:NO INFORMATION FOUND SO FAR TO VERIFY IDENTITYLinks to the military:(Residency: Walter Reed Army Medical Center) Last edited by QuidSapio; 22 May 2013 at 13:59 PM . Reason: refined the "questions"