

gigahurtz

Premium Member

join:2001-10-20

USA gigahurtz Premium Member I don't like the mandatory data plan, but... If you aren't happy with it then switch to a pre-paid provider. There are many options now that are just as good as AT&T and cost much less. Buy a Nexus 4 and get T-Mobile's pre-paid plan for $45 a month including data.



It should be considerably less than what you're paying with AT&T and the service should be decent. Unfortunately, the only way the consumer can send a message is if they talk with their wallets.

openbox9

Premium Member

join:2004-01-26

71144 openbox9 Premium Member Re: I don't like the mandatory data plan, but... said by gigahurtz: Buy a Nexus 4 and get T-Mobile's pre-paid plan for $45 a month including data. Or better yet, the $30 plan that I just signed up for while I'm back in the states.

tanzam75

join:2012-07-19 tanzam75 to gigahurtz

Member to gigahurtz

said by gigahurtz: It should be considerably less than what you're paying with AT&T and the service should be decent. Unfortunately, the only way the consumer can send a message is if they talk with their wallets.





Consumers generally cannot do math. That's why they get fleeced.



If they could, then it would not have taken until this year for T-Mobile's no-subsidy plans to take hold. And prepaid would be far more popular than it is. "Math is hard. Let's go shopping!"Consumers generally cannot do math. That's why they get fleeced.If they could, then it would not have taken until this year for T-Mobile's no-subsidy plans to take hold. And prepaid would bemore popular than it is.



Lone Wolf

Retired

Premium Member

join:2001-12-30

USA Lone Wolf Premium Member Re: I don't like the mandatory data plan, but... said by tanzam75: "Math is hard. Let's go shopping!"



Consumers generally cannot do math. That's why they get fleeced.



Even funnier than the math game with data plans is the math game with subsidized phones. People are paying up to $1600 for a $400 phone because they bought a subsidized phone for $1 ( or so they thought).



cdru

Go Colts

MVM

join:2003-05-14

Fort Wayne, IN cdru MVM Re: I don't like the mandatory data plan, but... said by Lone Wolf: Even funnier than the math game with data plans is the math game with subsidized phones. People are paying up to $1600 for a $400 phone because they bought a subsidized phone for $1 ( or so they thought).

Can you give an example, please?



Lone Wolf

Retired

Premium Member

join:2001-12-30

USA 1 recommendation Lone Wolf Premium Member Re: I don't like the mandatory data plan, but... said by cdru: said by Lone Wolf: Even funnier than the math game with data plans is the math game with subsidized phones. People are paying up to $1600 for a $400 phone because they bought a subsidized phone for $1 ( or so they thought).



Can you give an example, please?



»Does Anybody Ever Look At What They're Buying? I just went to the verizon site and entered all of the info to purchase the 16gb Siii with 2gb data and unlimited talk/text.



It came to $200 for the phone and $120 monthly for the service.



Now comes the fun!



120 month x 24 months = $2880 add $200 for the phone and you have spent $3080 plus taxes and other fees for 2 years for cell phone and service.



I can buy the phone outright anywhere for around $600 without a service plan. Personally I would only buy a GSM phone (worldwide) rather than the CDMA model (US only). Then I would buy an unlimited everything service plan from an MVNO for between $40 to $60 monthly.



$50 month x 24 months = $1200 plus $600 for the phone and I will have spent $1800 (no taxes or anything else added) for 2 years for cell phone and service. Here's a quick example.



cdru

Go Colts

MVM

join:2003-05-14

Fort Wayne, IN cdru MVM Re: I don't like the mandatory data plan, but... said by Lone Wolf: said by cdru: said by Lone Wolf: Even funnier than the math game with data plans is the math game with subsidized phones. People are paying up to $1600 for a $400 phone because they bought a subsidized phone for $1 ( or so they thought).



Can you give an example, please?



»Does Anybody Ever Look At What They're Buying? Here's a quick example.



Your plan pricing might have been correct when you posted your message, but 2GB data+unlimited voice on Verizon is now $100+taxes/fees.



Your $40-60 MVNO plan doesn't include LTE data as Verizon's does. And depending on which MVNO you go with, you may be stuck with just 3g speeds, not even HSPA+.



Also depending on which MVNO, data or voice coverage may be less then what a MNO's coverage is, due to the MVNO not having the same roaming agreements or favoring one network over one that has a better signal at a location.



Going with a carrier directly isn't a requirement for everyone. But a MVNO doesn't meet everyone's requirements either. Just saying people are paying $1600 for a phone is a little bit of a characterization of the situation. But that example is not what you said. You said they are paying $400 for a phone, but then you use a $600 phone as an example.Your plan pricing might have been correct when you posted your message, but 2GB data+unlimited voice on Verizon is now $100+taxes/fees.Your $40-60 MVNO plan doesn't include LTE data as Verizon's does. And depending on which MVNO you go with, you may be stuck with just 3g speeds, not even HSPA+.Also depending on which MVNO, data or voice coverage may be less then what a MNO's coverage is, due to the MVNO not having the same roaming agreements or favoring one network over one that has a better signal at a location.Going with a carrier directly isn't a requirement for everyone. But a MVNO doesn't meet everyone's requirements either. Just saying people are paying $1600 for a phone is a little bit of a characterization of the situation.



Metatron2008

Premium Member

join:2008-09-02

united state Metatron2008 to tanzam75

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I think the real issue is that the best smartphones are usually on at&t and verizon..

antennaman19

join:2010-01-18

Painesville, OH 107.8 11.5

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said by tanzam75: said by gigahurtz: It should be considerably less than what you're paying with AT&T and the service should be decent. Unfortunately, the only way the consumer can send a message is if they talk with their wallets.





Consumers generally cannot do math. That's why they get fleeced.



If they could, then it would not have taken until this year for T-Mobile's no-subsidy plans to take hold. And prepaid would be far more popular than it is.

"Math is hard. Let's go shopping!"Consumers generally cannot do math. That's why they get fleeced.If they could, then it would not have taken until this year for T-Mobile's no-subsidy plans to take hold. And prepaid would bemore popular than it is. If you got the exact same network footprint as the contract side, it would be a no-brainer.



KrK

Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy

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The reason is simple, Americans buy everything on credit and are mortgaged to the hilt. They want the shiny new phone, but they aren't coming up with $400-$600 for it. However, those "Free" or $20 or $49 phones (Plus a two year contract) mean instant gratification now. That's the real reason more people haven't adopted prepaid.



For example, I bought a new GS3 off a guy on Craigslist for $480. I have a $30+tax prepaid plan. So, assuming I only used the phone for two years and then replaced it, that would be $20 a month + service. Contrast that to a 2 year contract where I pay $79 a month for similar service but get the phone for free... still cost me an additional $696 over prepaid--- and if I keep it for longer then 2 years, the numbers get dramatically better still.



The catch is, of course, you have to come up with that $480 upfront.... and you can't insure your phone. Break it or get robbed and you're out the money. Still for me pre-paid is a no brainer.



cdru

Go Colts

MVM

join:2003-05-14

Fort Wayne, IN cdru MVM Re: I don't like the mandatory data plan, but... said by KrK: For example, I bought a new GS3 off a guy on Craigslist for $480. I have a $30+tax prepaid plan. So, assuming I only used the phone for two years and then replaced it, that would be $20 a month + service.



No it's not $30, but you also aren't comparing plans apples to apples. If a $30 plan suits you, that's great. But some people want or need more minutes or data. Or you can go say with T-Mobile Value plan where a GS3 costs $99 up front and $20 a month for 20 months for a total of $499 or...$20.79 over 24 months + the price of service. So it requires $380 less up front but $19 over the 2 year contract.No it's not $30, but you also aren't comparing plans apples to apples. If a $30 plan suits you, that's great. But some people want or need more minutes or data.



KrK

Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy

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join:2000-01-17

Tulsa, OK Netgear WNDR3700v2

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KrK Premium Member Re: I don't like the mandatory data plan, but... Yes, that is another option, but again you're in for the two years, pay $579 for the phone. It's a good middle ground option, T-mobile seems to be more flexible with it's offerings than either Verizon or AT&T, but of course their service isn't nearly as universal.

notambiguous

join:2005-03-24 1 recommendation notambiguous to KrK

Member to KrK

said by KrK: The reason is simple, Americans buy everything on credit and are mortgaged to the hilt.





Walk into a Verizon store, point at a phone and ask "I want to just buy that phone outright so how much is the monthly plan cost?" vs "I want that phone but don't want to pay up front so how much is the monthly plan?" or "I have this phone I want to use, how much is the monthly plan?". Then note there is no difference in monthly cost. Carriers like Verizon are quite disingenuous about phone subsidies. Not this American. We use Verizon mainly because they have coverage in the places we need it.Walk into a Verizon store, point at a phone and ask "I want to just buy that phone outright so how much is the monthly plan cost?" vs "I want that phone but don't want to pay up front so how much is the monthly plan?" or "I have this phone I want to use, how much is the monthly plan?". Then note there is no difference in monthly cost. Carriers like Verizon are quite disingenuous about phone subsidies.



disconnected

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Anon to gigahurtz

Boost Mobile does this too. They're prepaid iDEN phone ($10 /3 months) became $55/month when I switched to an Android phone due to iDEN shutting down.

fiberguy2

My views are my own.

Premium Member

join:2005-05-20 fiberguy2 to gigahurtz

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said by gigahurtz: If you aren't happy with it then switch to a pre-paid provider. There are many options now that are just as good as AT&T and cost much less. Buy a Nexus 4 and get T-Mobile's pre-paid plan for $45 a month including data.



It should be considerably less than what you're paying with AT&T and the service should be decent. Unfortunately, the only way the consumer can send a message is if they talk with their wallets.





While I agree with capitalism and the power of the consumer, the fact is that the fascist mentality of the corporate bosses, having infiltrated every area in government, the power of people to influence to any great extent has been diminished. In the 90's, there were some decent consumer protection laws that were put in place to stop mandatory buy through in some industries, cable included. That was one rule I agreed with.. but given time, that was removed and look where we are today.. cable bills averaging $80 a month now.



No.. this is one thing I disagree with. WE as people should stand up and demand that forced purchase of a product you do not intend to you should not be allowed. They can VERY easily block your access to data should you choose not to use it. If you own the handset, or received no subsidy from them, then they need to back the F off. If data is mandatory in providing service then a basic rate should be included in the service. It's amazing how they never wanted to itemize anything, and now they all the sudden do.



Screw them. Yes, you are correct! ... you should just continue and sit back and let the machines roll over you..While I agree with capitalism and the power of the consumer, the fact is that the fascist mentality of the corporate bosses, having infiltrated every area in government, the power of people to influence to any great extent has been diminished. In the 90's, there were some decent consumer protection laws that were put in place to stop mandatory buy through in some industries, cable included. That was one rule I agreed with.. but given time, that was removed and look where we are today.. cable bills averaging $80 a month now.No.. this is one thing I disagree with. WE as people should stand up and demand that forced purchase of a product you do not intend to you should not be allowed. They can VERY easily block your access to data should you choose not to use it. If you own the handset, or received no subsidy from them, then they need to back the F off. If data is mandatory in providing service then a basic rate should be included in the service. It's amazing how they never wanted to itemize anything, and now they all the sudden do.Screw them.

rradina

join:2000-08-08

Chesterfield, MO ·Charter

1 recommendation rradina Member Re: I don't like the mandatory data plan, but... In addition to blocking, they could just charge you $30 the first time you use data. When you reach 1GB of usage and $20/GB after that.



They used to do this with text messages. Either buy a plan with a set amount of minutes or get charged 35 cents/msg.



joako

Premium Member

join:2000-09-07

/dev/null 81.9 7.1

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said by gigahurtz Buy a Nexus 4 and get T-Mobile's pre-paid plan for $45 a month including data. [/BQUOTE : But the entire point is that you DON'T WANT DATA.



Get H2O Wireless on AT&T's own network for $30 a month for unlimted talk and text.



Simba7

I Void Warranties

join:2003-03-24

Fromberg, MT 18.2 1.6

Simba7 to gigahurtz

Member to gigahurtz

said by gigahurtz: If you aren't happy with it then switch to a pre-paid provider. There are many options now that are just as good as AT&T and cost much less. Buy a Nexus 4 and get T-Mobile's pre-paid plan for $45 a month including data. T-Mobile isn't everywhere. Doesn't work here. ST does work great on either CDMA (VZ) or GSM (at&t).

PinkyThePig

Premium Member

join:2011-05-02

Tempe, AZ 1 recommendation PinkyThePig Premium Member Signing for contracts Is it even legal to sign them up for something without their permission? If I were this guy I would pay my bill with a credit card then charge back the data charge portion as that was never agreed upon when signing up. I'm curious as to how AT&T would handle that whether they would cancel the whole thing, charge some rediculous ETF or some other wonky setup.



EDIT: Forgot to add that he should check the original service agreement he signed and see if it talks about adding additional charges for data if using a certain phone



Morac

Cat god

join:2001-08-30

Riverside, NJ Morac Member Re: Signing for contracts Legally, unless you are under contract, they can do whatever they want. Wireless contracts usually last 2 years. Note that the guy wasn't "forced into a contract", AT&T just started charging him for data. He is free to leave if he wants.



Yes many people are "grandfathered" in under certain packages, but there's no law that says AT&T has to keep those around after the contract expires. AT&T could force "grandfathered" users off those plans at any time.



If you are outside of a contract they can pretty much do whatever they want. If you don't like it, leave them. The problem is that with little nationwide competition and the major carriers playing the same game (*), it's not a question of if you'd like to get wallet raped, but by who.



(*) - Yes there are smaller resellers, that don't do this, but they have their own problems and you never know when one will get bought out by one of the big boys.

fiberguy2

My views are my own.

Premium Member

join:2005-05-20 fiberguy2 Premium Member Re: Signing for contracts



On the surface, you're correct, however we don't live in that world you're speaking of bud.



Even under contract, these providers have proven to us all over and over again that the contracts are just so that WE follow them.. they don't have to. They change what ever they want, when they want, and tell us if we don't like it they'll let us go. The last one that tried that was Sprint when they took my unlimited 3G data and put a 5gb cap on it for the same price while I was under contract. A bit of telling them that wasn't going to happen, well, to this day I'm still unlimited on my 3G data. I'm no longer under contract and they CAN pull that away from me, but since 2008 they have not.



OUTSIDE of a contract, still, no, they can't just do what ever they want, per-say. There are still certain rules they have to follow set by states and fed and have to abide by those. But in theory, yes, they have more flexibility to change things at will. MOST the time they won't do that because they do realize you can leave. A sheep (customer) out of contract is a threat their existence. There still is a little bit of a balance act they have to play when they make changes. Verizon has had the biggest balls as we all know in standing their ground. Who knows if this will ultimately harm them in the long run or not. Having AT&T follow in their in-on-the-game moves, it gave VZ an upper hand to pull the stunt they did. I just feel sorry for all the VZ customers who paid full price for a handset to keep unlimited data who are inevitably about to have that plan pulled as well.



You're absolutely right about grandfathered plans too.. but, in a sense, those grandfathered plans may as well be the same as being in a contract. AT&T knows that as long as people are GF'd, they're less likely to leave so they can keep their plan. They rarely pull plans away like that.. What they will do is give the illusion that something better is out there, get you to switch, etc etc. But grandfathering is actually MORE of a reason to stay with a provider over that of an actual contract. I'll pay the ETF ANY-DAY if a provider pisses me off.. and I have! (I don't see it as a threat.. I see it as I'll either buy the handset outright, or over time.. either way I'm paying that price) But, I'm more likely to stay and keep my "unlimited plan" in this example, because I know that once I leave I won't get it back. see?



These guys aren't stupid.. we are. ROFL .. you're funny.On the surface, you're correct, however we don't live in that world you're speaking of bud.Even under contract, these providers have proven to us all over and over again that the contracts are just so that WE follow them.. they don't have to. They change what ever they want, when they want, and tell us if we don't like it they'll let us go. The last one that tried that was Sprint when they took my unlimited 3G data and put a 5gb cap on it for the same price while I was under contract. A bit of telling them that wasn't going to happen, well, to this day I'm still unlimited on my 3G data. I'm no longer under contract and they CAN pull that away from me, but since 2008 they have not.OUTSIDE of a contract, still, no, they can't just do what ever they want, per-say. There are still certain rules they have to follow set by states and fed and have to abide by those. But in theory, yes, they have more flexibility to change things at will. MOST the time they won't do that because they do realize you can leave. A sheep (customer) out of contract is a threat their existence. There still is a little bit of a balance act they have to play when they make changes. Verizon has had the biggest balls as we all know in standing their ground. Who knows if this will ultimately harm them in the long run or not. Having AT&T follow in their in-on-the-game moves, it gave VZ an upper hand to pull the stunt they did. I just feel sorry for all the VZ customers who paid full price for a handset to keep unlimited data who are inevitably about to have that plan pulled as well.You're absolutely right about grandfathered plans too.. but, in a sense, those grandfathered plans may as well be the same as being in a contract. AT&T knows that as long as people are GF'd, they're less likely to leave so they can keep their plan. They rarely pull plans away like that.. What they will do is give the illusion that something better is out there, get you to switch, etc etc. But grandfathering is actually MORE of a reason to stay with a provider over that of an actual contract. I'll pay the ETF ANY-DAY if a provider pisses me off.. and I have! (I don't see it as a threat.. I see it as I'll either buy the handset outright, or over time.. either way I'm paying that price) But, I'm more likely to stay and keep my "unlimited plan" in this example, because I know that once I leave I won't get it back. see?These guys aren't stupid.. we are.

TheGuvnor9

join:2006-06-23

Beverly Hills, CA TheGuvnor9 Member Re: Signing for contracts Ding Ding, best answer ever. If you don't want to get fleeced don't sign a contract. Buy a pad, download skype, add some $$ just in case and talk away on free wifi.

tanzam75

join:2012-07-19 tanzam75 to PinkyThePig

Member to PinkyThePig

said by PinkyThePig: Is it even legal to sign them up for something without their permission?



(Note, however, that the blog post makes it clear that he's off-contract.)



The problem is that the carriers charge extremely high fees for per-MB data if you do not have a data plan. Thus, if you have no data plan, forget to turn off data on the phone, and try to use data, then you could easily rack up thousands of dollars in charges.



AT&T judged it better to upset the minority of users who have the discipline to have no data plan and use Wi-Fi everywhere, rather than to upset the users who cut the data plan and then continue to use data.



There are two obvious solutions to the "stupid users" conundrum: (1) Don't charge so much for data off a data plan! (2) Disable per-byte usage if you don't buy a data plan. But, well, we know that obvious solutions are never adopted.



AT&T can force every smartphone onto a data plan, and pick up additional revenues. Or they can lower prices and/or turn off data, and forgo the revenues. Which of these two options do you think they'll pick? No. However, you gave permission by agreeing to the 50-million pages of the Terms of Service.(Note, however, that the blog post makes it clear that he's off-contract.)The problem is that the carriers charge extremely high fees for per-MB data if you do not have a data plan. Thus, if you have no data plan, forget to turn off data on the phone, and try to use data, then you could easily rack up thousands of dollars in charges.AT&T judged it better to upset the minority of users who have the discipline to have no data plan and use Wi-Fi everywhere, rather than to upset the users who cut the data plan and then continue to use data.There are two obvious solutions to the "stupid users" conundrum: (1) Don't charge so much for data off a data plan! (2) Disable per-byte usage if you don't buy a data plan. But, well, we know that obvious solutions are never adopted.AT&T can force every smartphone onto a data plan, and pick up additional revenues. Or they can lower prices and/or turn off data, and forgo the revenues. Which of these two options do you think they'll pick?



IowaCowboy

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said by PinkyThePig: Is it even legal to sign them up for something without their permission? If I were this guy I would pay my bill with a credit card then charge back the data charge portion as that was never agreed upon when signing up. I'm curious as to how AT&T would handle that whether they would cancel the whole thing, charge some rediculous ETF or some other wonky setup.



EDIT: Forgot to add that he should check the original service agreement he signed and see if it talks about adding additional charges for data if using a certain phone





6.3 What Are The Voice And Data Plan Requirements?

A voice plan is required on all voice-capable Devices, unless specifically noted otherwise in the terms governing your plan.

An eligible tiered pricing data plan is required for certain Devices, including iPhones and other designated Smartphones. Eligible voice and tiered pricing data plans cover voice and data usage in the U.S. and do not cover International voice and data usage and charges. If it is determined that you are using a voice-capable Device without a voice plan, or that you are using an iPhone or designated Smartphone without an eligible voice and tiered data plan, AT&T reserves the right to switch you to the required plan or plans and bill you the appropriate monthly fees. In the case of the tiered data plan, you will be placed on the data plan which provides you with the greatest monthly data usage allowance. If you determine that you do not require that much data usage in a month, you may request a lower data tier at a lower monthly recurring fee. This is from the AT&T subscriber agreement:6.3 What Are The Voice And Data Plan Requirements?A voice plan is required on all voice-capable Devices, unless specifically noted otherwise in the terms governing your plan.An eligible tiered pricing data plan is required for certain Devices, including iPhones and other designated Smartphones. Eligible voice and tiered pricing data plans cover voice and data usage in the U.S. and do not cover International voice and data usage and charges. If it is determined that you are using a voice-capable Device without a voice plan, or that you are using an iPhone or designated Smartphone without an eligible voice and tiered data plan, AT&T reserves the right to switch you to the required plan or plans and bill you the appropriate monthly fees. In the case of the tiered data plan, you will be placed on the data plan which provides you with the greatest monthly data usage allowance. If you determine that you do not require that much data usage in a month, you may request a lower data tier at a lower monthly recurring fee.



morbo

Complete Your Transaction

join:2002-01-22

00000 morbo Member That is obnoxious That is unbelievable. I'm sure he has a legal case if he wants to pursue it.



I wish he would have stated if he plans to stay with AT&T despite this policy or is leaving for another provider. I can't imagine that he would stay.

en103

join:2011-05-02 en103 Member Re: That is obnoxious



I had an old HTC TyTNII which had the old 'pay per use' data plan - in which I was able to disable the data and use it as a WiFi smartphone (back when 3G was not very well built out or stable)



When iPhone and Droid phones started becoming highly sought after, AT&T basically stated that phones are either 'feature' (plain phones) or 'smart' phones, and all smartphones (they don't care where you got it from) are subject to a smartphone data plan to be used on a standard plan.



The only part I hated on that - was typically if I switched phones, even temporarily, I'd be subject to 'scanning' and having a different plan applied.



It now gets 'worse' - to the point that there are 'iPhone', 'iPhone 5', and just about every model/make plans.

Why ? Because you effectively 'could' keep your plan for a very long time, and AT&T would like to make sure that if you have a new phone, it gets a new(er) plan and rate



Verizon and Sprint never had to deal with this in the past, as all phones were driven by ESN, and 'unlocked' phones may exist, but carriers wouldn't activate them. GSM based AT&T/T-Mobile use SIM cards which allow you to swap phones. So instead, they're using the IMEI (phone identifier) to id the model/type and be obnoxious through that means. This has been AT&T's policy for 'years' now.I had an old HTC TyTNII which had the old 'pay per use' data plan - in which I was able to disable the data and use it as a WiFi smartphone (back when 3G was not very well built out or stable)When iPhone and Droid phones started becoming highly sought after, AT&T basically stated that phones are either 'feature' (plain phones) or 'smart' phones, and all smartphones (they don't care where you got it from) are subject to a smartphone data plan to be used on a standard plan.The only part I hated on that - was typically if I switched phones, even temporarily, I'd be subject to 'scanning' and having a different plan applied.It now gets 'worse' - to the point that there are 'iPhone', 'iPhone 5', and just about every model/make plans.Why ? Because you effectively 'could' keep your plan for a very long time, and AT&T would like to make sure that if you have a new phone, it gets a new(er) plan and rateVerizon and Sprint never had to deal with this in the past, as all phones were driven by ESN, and 'unlocked' phones may exist, but carriers wouldn't activate them. GSM based AT&T/T-Mobile use SIM cards which allow you to swap phones. So instead, they're using the IMEI (phone identifier) to id the model/type and be obnoxious through that means.

tanzam75

join:2012-07-19 tanzam75 to morbo

Member to morbo

said by morbo: That is unbelievable. I'm sure he has a legal case if he wants to pursue it.



AT&T's Wireless Customer Agreement requires a data plan for smartphones: »www.att.com/shop/legalte ··· reement&



6.3 What Are The Voice And Data Plan Requirements?



A voice plan is required on all voice-capable Devices, unless specifically noted otherwise in the terms governing your plan.



An eligible tiered pricing data plan is required for certain Devices, including iPhones and other designated Smartphones. He does not. His only recourse is to leave AT&T. (Which I highly recommend!)AT&T's Wireless Customer Agreement requires a data plan for smartphones:

pkorx8

join:2003-06-19

San Francisco, CA pkorx8 Member Re: That is obnoxious Aren't all contract disputes bound to ATT's arbitration courts?

fiberguy2

My views are my own.

Premium Member

join:2005-05-20 fiberguy2 Premium Member Re: That is obnoxious Only if you haven't opted out.. like I have.

itguy05

join:2005-06-17

Carlisle, PA itguy05 to tanzam75

Member to tanzam75

said by tanzam75: said by morbo: That is unbelievable. I'm sure he has a legal case if he wants to pursue it.



AT&T's Wireless Customer Agreement requires a data plan for smartphones: He does not. His only recourse is to leave AT&T. (Which I highly recommend!)AT&T's Wireless Customer Agreement requires a data plan for smartphones:



If someone had a contract from before this clause existed and never upgraded or even contacted AT&T at all the only valid contract would be the one they signed. That contract may not have that clause so he may be able to actually sue them.



They are banking on people taking the latest contract as the one you are bound to. But if the original never included such language and you never signed another one you can't be held to it. It depends. In 2008 (when he says he bought his phone), was AT&T requiring data on Smartphones.If someone had a contract from before this clause existed and never upgraded or even contacted AT&T at all the only valid contract would be the one they signed. That contract may not have that clause so he may be able to actually sue them.They are banking on people taking the latest contract as the one you are bound to. But if the original never included such language and you never signed another one you can't be held to it.

tanzam75

join:2012-07-19 tanzam75 Member Re: That is obnoxious said by itguy05: If someone had a contract from before this clause existed and never upgraded or even contacted AT&T at all the only valid contract would be the one they signed. That contract may not have that clause so he may be able to actually sue them. When you go month-to-month, the provider is entitled to change the terms on you at any time. He would be covered by the latest version of the Customer Agreement.



MovieLover76

join:2009-09-11

Cherry Hill, NJ ·Verizon FiOS

(Software) pfSense

Asus RT-AC68

Asus RT-AC66

1 edit MovieLover76 Member Eh Given that AT&T doesn't directly control or even in some cases control at all the software on smartphones, I have to say I understand mandatory data plans. better they automatically put you on a plan, than someone swaps sims to a smartphone and they charge you at 1.99/mb for the GB of data you use in a month. I'm sure this case is far more prevalent than those trying to use a smart phone will skipping a data plan.



Maybe it's just me, but having a smartphone without a data plan is somewhat useless. I know people are going to argue this point, but these companies don't lift a finger to accommodate every user profile, they are looking at the average user.



IowaCowboy

Supermarket Hero

Premium Member

join:2010-10-16

Springfield, MA ARRIS SB6183

Netgear R8000

IowaCowboy Premium Member Contract language When you sign up for service, you agree that if you connect a smartphone to their network, that you'll pay for a data plan. Using a smartphone without a data plan is a breach of the contract, which makes it technically an unauthorized connection to the network and can expose the user to legal issues. It's technically theft of service as it equates to buying basic cable and removing the filter at the tap and getting more channels than you pay for even though you don't watch the unauthorized channels and you get those channels from another TV service.



If you want a smartphone, pay for the data as it is required as a term of service. They have it buried in the fine print that if you attach a smartphone to your account, then you must buy a data plan.



As an iPhone owner, my data plan is important. I go to a lot of places that do not have Wi-Fi. Pioneer Valley Transit Authority buses do not have Wi-Fi, nor do the city parks. The city library has Wi-Fi but I use my own mobile hotspot. The only time I've used public Wi-Fi is at Baystate Medical Center as the Verizon signals do not penetrate their complex maze-like facility. BMC is so complex to navigate I don't know how the residents (student doctors) can get to a patient in code blue quickly enough without getting lost.



I personally avoid Wi-Fi, I just prefer to use my data plan unless the signal is 1xrtt.



ohreally

@claranet.co.uk ohreally Anon Europe ftw Oh how I am glad that across the Atlantic we don't have any of this crap.



I pay less than £10/mo for my contract (no subsidised phone), I can use it in any phone I like and if I want data I can pay a little more (I decide, not the network). That's not the most attractive deal, there are better ones if you want to put up with a lower quality network.



They clearly know what phone I have as their automatic system tells me when I call them.



The joys of having a truly competitive mobile industry with all the network operators using the same standards and frequency bands...



n2jtx

join:2001-01-13

Glen Head, NY n2jtx Member Sprint Sprint forces you to have a data plan AND pay their "premium" data charge. I do not use the data service on my iPhone 4S because, in a word, it stinks. I opt for using WiFi. However, since I am not paying the bill and had no choice in the matter, I just ignore it and leave the data turned off on the phone. My battery lasts a heck of a lot longer than it did when I used to leave it on. My billing period ends on the 10th and my usage so far this cycle is 0.0MB.



Bill Neilson

Premium Member

join:2009-07-08

Alexandria, VA Bill Neilson Premium Member And AT&T succeeded by having so many (including here with posters) act like anyone using above 2gb was somehow killing the network.



Hell, we still have posters act blaming 3gm a month data users that they are "slowing" down the network



What a joke



elitefx

join:2011-02-14

London, ON elitefx Member Mandatory My Butt Or better yet, just leave the smart phone on the store shelf to start with. Get yourself a good old POTS line. Who in their right mind wants to yak on the phone every 5 minutes when they're not at home?



Me, I go out to get AWAY FROM phones, computers, television etc. Last thing in the world I want is some idiot calling and ruining my ME time.



Take that money trap out of your pocket and kick it to the curb. Let AT&T and Verizon go rob some other poor soul.



compuguybna

join:2009-06-17

Nashville, TN compuguybna Member no data required on prepaid Get a prepaid AT&T go-phone. NO DATA PLAN REQUIRED.



i've had mine for 4 years. In the rare case I need data, I bought a $5 plan for 100mb.



simlesa

Premium Member

join:2006-04-14

Astoria, NY simlesa Premium Member Data Only I've actually been trying (unsuccessfully) to do the opposite - ditch the voice plan, and have data only on my smartphone. I can't find any ways to do that either.



KrK

Heavy Artillery For The Little Guy

Premium Member

join:2000-01-17

Tulsa, OK Netgear WNDR3700v2

Zoom 5341J

KrK Premium Member Re: Data Only



They call it unlimited, but it's really 5GB. Still, it's $30. Does T-Mobile have decent coverage in your area? Do you have a T-Mobile compatible phone? I use the $30 plan. It still has 100 mins of voice, which comes in handy for quick calls..They call it unlimited, but it's really 5GB. Still, it's $30.



delusion ftl

@comcast.net delusion ftl to simlesa

Anon to simlesa

This is very easily done, you just aren't looking at the right carriers.



T-mobile will give you the data only (5GB 4g then throttled after that) for the 30 dollars a month. But they also are nice and throw in 100 min voice just in case you need it. Oh and unlimited texts.



ATT and verizon are the best carriers as far as national coverage, and the worst carriers as far as value and customer flexibility/options.

bgraham2

join:2001-03-15

Smithtown, NY bgraham2 Member This seems to be catching on. I got this from Virgin Mobile



It seems that Virgin Mobile is stopping the talk only cell phone option too. I think Virgin uses the Sprint network. Maybe Sprint is going to a must have data plan too. I have no use for data or text messaging and got Virgin Mobile to turn off both on our 2 pay as you go phones.It seems that Virgin Mobile is stopping the talk only cell phone option too. I think Virgin uses the Sprint network. Maybe Sprint is going to a must have data plan too.

wkm001

join:2009-12-14 wkm001 Member Prepaid Page Plus Cellular (Verizon MVNO) does not require a data plan to use a smart phone. But they do require you to use a 3G phone.



It is a real catch 22, those tech savvy enough to find Page Plus and cut their bill also want to use the latest phones. Hopefully Page Plus will get 4G access soon.