Andrew Mashiko was once a pick-up artist. And before that he was an average frustrated chump - in pick-up slang, an AFC. He had just divorced. He was alone and worried he would stay that way. He flew to Texas for a workshop with the man who called himself the world's top seducer, Adam Lyons.

He paid $10,000 for a one-week live-in course.

Then he paid for Real Social Dynamics (RSD) seminars, where he studied how to intimidate attractive women into submission, using aggressive physical techniques and a knowledge of psychology.

"It's a dark path, very negative," says the the Melbourne-based man, who now offers his services as a dating coach. "I decided to go another way."

RSD has been in the news this week. One of of its instructors, a pick-up artist (PUA) named Jeff Allen, author of a book called Get Laid or Die Trying, had been touring Australia to hold seminars. On Tuesday he had his visa cancelled on the grounds he was promoting abusive behaviour towards women. There had already been a petition calling for his deportation, and according to reports the wanted man was not even in the country anymore. He had flown out on the weekend.

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More than a year ago, in November 2014, another RSD instructor had to cut short his Australian tour after protests against his seminars. His visa was also cancelled.

The RSD controversy raises questions about what is acceptable pick-up behaviour, at what point a seduction workshop becomes simply a users guide to preying on women, whether RSD is a violent outlier or part of a spectrum of sleaze.

Mashiko's journey is set against the broader story of the evolution of the pick-up industry. A new wave of dating coaches are careful to distinguish themselves from PUAs. Instead of focusing on how to pick-up women, they speak about forging meaningful connections. Instead of speaking about the kinds of personas that women find attractive, they speak about how men can express their "true self".

"I hate the term pick-up artists, it's been ruined and associated with so many sleazebags," says Jonathon Sankey, founder of Seduce in Seconds, which teaches how to pick up a woman in 15 minutes.

"Social engineering is what I call it."

According to Sankey, the RSD controversy would have helped the company attract more clients. He says Allen always intended to be be deported, his Australia tour was a PR stunt.

"RSD is like Donald Trump," he says. "Let's make outlandish inappropriate comments and get more PR and all of a sudden we don't need a marketing budget."

'It's almost narcissism training'

Pick-up artists came to prominence after the 2005 release of a non-fiction book chronicling a reporter's journey into the seduction community. In The Game: Penetrating the Secret Society of Pickup Artists, Neil Strauss tells the story of how, frustrated with his own romantic life, he stumbled upon a mysterious subculture of pick-up artists, and then pursued them through online discussion groups, learning their skills through workshops, before finally becoming a recognised PUA himself. He moves into a Hollywood mansion with other members of the community - learning at the feet of the master PUAs who go by names like Mystery, Playboy, Papa, Tyler Durden and Herbal.

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Eventually the mansion disbands, the community breaks apart, and a new company rises from the ashes: Real Social Dynamics, founded by Tyler Durden and Papa.

"When Neil Strauss's book came out all this stuff was new," says Mashiko. "The techniques deployed were heavily based on routines and rehearsed lines and gimmicks.

"They would go from person to person and practice the same lines and routines, and in the process the person delivering these lines would let nothing of their own identity come out."

One problem: women also read The Game. Foreknowledge made the seduction techniques significantly less effective. Seduction immunity spread.

"There was an understanding the techniques weren't real."

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This led to the evolution of something called 'natural game' that focused more on the ephemeral matter of personality than the rote performance of routines. But not just any personality. Namely the personality of someone who sleeps with lots of women.

"It's almost narcissism training," says Damien Diecke, who is head coach and founder of the Sydney-based School of Attraction.

"Typically a guy who sleeps with lots of women - the personality tends to be self-serving. That tends to be the philosophy not just of RSD but lots of PUA."

And not only PUA. Diecke believes popular media teaches a lesson that "nice guys finish last" and men that treat women badly are rewarded.

He says the RSD controversy is symptomatic of a wider anxiety about how to be attractive.

"Guys can't see there is another alternative - all they see is the choice between being lonely and being a PUA."

It also taps into anxiety about the extent we are prey to being influenced - not just by other people in social situations, but by all kinds of subtle, nefarious forces.

"You could extend the argument all advertising in some shape or form is violence," says Mashiko. "It prays on weakness and psychology that makes someone consume their products."

"It's about knowing who you are"

Offering relief from anxiety are the dating coaches: reformed PUAs such as Mashiko and Sankey, lifestyle entrepreneurs such as Diecke and Chris Manak, who calls himself "Melbourne's leading dating coaching authority".

All say what distinguishes them from PUAs is "intention" - whether a man is setting out to be manipulative, to deceive, to break hearts. But they also say they would also never teach the abusive techniques taught by groups such as RSD. They focus more on confidence and conversation topics.

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Whatsapp The RSD instructor deported from Australia in November 2014, Julien Blanc. His methods of attracting women includes choking strangers.

"It's about knowing who you are and not having to manipulate people for your own benefit," says Manak.

"There's a big focus on growth."

"People think little Johnny next door is going to watch a PUA video and learn a magic trick and end up manipulating thousands of women - it's not going to happen.

"Until he becomes a more attractive person he's not going to pick up anyone."

Dieke compares his role to that of a business coach or a fitness instructor - anyone who helps a person get better at something. Mashiko says he focuses on teaching men how to have meaningful conversations with women, to think about and understand what kind of partner they want to attract, and how to be open and upfront with their intentions when they meet women.

A good intention, according to Mashiko, is about ensuring "the person is in a better place in their life for having known me than before".

The trouble is intention is difficult to verify.

Or to put it another way, how can we ever be sure our intentions are only good?

In one of Sankey’s videos he casually “negs” a woman before isolating her from her friend. While this might seem predatory, Sankey believes it’s justified.

“I stand by my techniques. I don’t think I pushed it that much. To get a deeper level of rapport with someone you need to have a private conversation, not in front of their friends.”

But he concedes there are some techniques he’s left behind.

"You have to question your tactics many times," says Sankey, the reformed PUA. "There's a lot which I never include. There's a lot of things that work.

"Just because they work doesn't mean they're the right way to do things."