Over the weekend, two of the most famous whistleblowers in U.S. history, Edward Snowden and Pentagon papers leaker Daniel Ellsberg, sat down at the HopeX hacker conference in New York to discuss how technology can empower dissent and protect your privacy.

What began as a calm panel on the state of whistleblowing quickly evolved into a heated discussion on whether Snowden is a traitor and why, in Ellsberg’s words, “Snowden was the one person in the f***ing NSA that did what he absolutely should have done.”

Watch the hour-and-a-half long talk below, or skip to the 53-minute mark for Ellsberg’s most intense moment.