Below is the second of four installments of the appearance by Thilo Sarrazin on the TV program “Talk in Hangar 7” (previously: Part 1).

Many thanks to MissPiggy for the translation, and to Vlad Tepes for the subtitling:

Video transcript:

00:00 I have to say, it appears that you did not in fact read my book.

00:06 I repeatedly state in my book, in various places, that when I speak

00:13 about groups and their statistics’ characteristics, this does not reflect on individuals.

00:17 Naturally there are Turkish engineers.

00:20 However, at the same time, 60 percent of those with a Turkish background

00:25 in Germany, despite being in Germany for 60 years,

00:31 have no professional qualifications. In fact, Muslims have

00:37 an unemployment rate far above average; they have poor academic

00:43 Achievement; they are more often criminal; they earn less because

00:49 they are less educated and it is widespread. This distinguishes

00:56 Muslims from all other immigrants. These differences are so great and so significant.

01:01 Mr. Sarrazin, if you start with numbers and

01:07 statistics, then I’ll feel sick. And I will be justified in feeling sick,

01:14 because facts have shown that you aren’t good with numbers or

01:21 that you are mistaken, or I would never, I would never… Excuse me —

01:25 I said you were an engineer. —I would never insinuate

01:29 that you lie, I will explain. In front of me here is a study of 70 pages

01:34 about false statements and false theories from you. This study

01:39 has the title, “Theories from Thilo Sarrazin on the Test Bench” from a political scientist.

01:42 Oh, you mean from Naika Foroutan!

01:45 —Allow me, please. —Naika Foroutan know nothing about statistics.

01:49 I would like to express my opinion so that the

01:52 audience… —Yes, but you don’t need to be loud. —Exactly, exactly,

01:56 but he’s interrupting me with this voice… —Naika Foroutan did not

02:01 disprove one thing of mine! —Allow me to come to the end. —OK.

02:06 You deliver figures which are not correct and have nothing to do

02:11 with reality. This lady got her figures from BAMF (Federal Office for Migration and Refugees)

02:15 and police headquarters.

02:19 You say 20 percent of criminals, but she asked directly from the source.

02:23 They told her that’s not true at all; it is only 7 percent.

02:27 If you name figures according to theological perspective you are

02:31 a (almost says “swine”) weak deliverer. So your delivery is not

02:34 accepted. So, leave us alone with your figures. I see Germany differently

02:39 from Mr. Sarrazin. —We aren’t going to have a statistics battle.

02:44 I would like to answer in peace. What you have there, from Mrs. Foroutan,

02:49 is from the year 2010, and she did not prove

02:54 any of my figures wrong from my book at that time. —I can name seven.

03:02 This book, this book is from the year 2018, and has

03:10 785 footnotes and the Association of German Book Critics has found four minimal

03:16 errors that have nothing to do with the topic.

03:22 The audience should check that. —The figures show the entire picture:

03:26 that the Muslims in professional integration,

03:29 in education, by income, in the job market and by criminality do far worse

03:33 when compared to the rest of the population, and

03:38 it is the same for ALL European countries where Muslims live — without exception,

03:44 and if you deny that than I am unable to believe

03:50 a word you say this evening because everything you say is untruthful.

03:54 We must at least have the facts in common; if you

03:58 deny the facts, then this discussion with you has ended, as far as I am concerned.

04:01 These facts are disputed. —If you deny

04:04 these facts… —Of course, I see Germany differently. —Reality is the way it is.

04:09 You contest these facts, Mr. Kamouss. —You deny reality,

04:15 and thus you are untrustworthy! —Gentlemen. —Thousands of people who participate actively.

04:20 Mrs. Wiesinger has been waiting the longest time to say something,

04:24 so let’s allow her to say something. We don’t need

04:28 a man-fight. —When you put two such men together, then you should

04:32 bear the consequences. —That’s why an Austrian women

04:36 will lead us back into the waters of dialogue. —Phew! I have to say, good.

04:42 Mr. Kamouss, I am going to leave the figures

04:48 and facts out of the way — leave them out. I don’t want to comment on that.

04:53 I would like to discuss where you stand when it comes to

04:58 these children that I teach and that many, many other teachers also teach —

05:03 that they are put under such pressure from their own families

05:09 NOT to be a part of the Western lifestyle… —I have myself. —I’m not finished yet. —Take your time.

05:18 They are encouraged very often, in almost every case,

05:23 by the local mosque where they spend all of their free time,

05:28 for their segregation, they are encouraged. —The parents are encouraged,

05:35 exactly. I appeal to you, as an imam:

05:43 what can be done to allow these children to integrate? We need to

05:49 provide more than just education; the fact is that if one participates

05:56 very little in this life, than there is less chance of acquiring knowledge.

06:01 What can you as an imam do, or what can a Muslim community do

06:07 to support the integration of these children? —Firstly, I appreciate you very much as a teacher who

06:13 bears the responsibility and has concern for these children.

06:17 I think it is great, and I understand very well,

06:20 and I welcome it very much. I have children who go to school as well,

06:27 and I visit many schools. I visit these schools and

06:35 the children for education, and I am frequently invited by teachers. I see

06:40 the situation differently from how you see it, it may be,

06:45 In what way? —Excuse me. —Yes, but in what way? —It could be that

06:49 in certain schools, in Berlin, in Neukölln, that

06:52 in certain schools it is as you describe, but that

06:57 is not the entire picture from German schools. —A large part.

07:02 I reluctantly interrupt you, but we have already seen that you have

07:07 a different reality and view on how the figures are distributed.

07:13 There is obviously disagreement that we won’t clear up here. —But I haven’t answered. —Yes,

07:17 if you let me, I am conducting this conversation. It is not about whether

07:23 it is different somewhere else. Every individual case is difficult enough

07:28 by itself, and Mrs. Wiesinger isn’t asking how it is predominantly.

07:31 She wants to know what can you do, how do you react and

07:34 what can an imam do? What can the Islamic community do? —As an imam.

07:38 Just a moment. —When it is, as it is — when Muslim youths

07:42 have the role of “clothing police”, going around threatening girls.

07:47 I have helped many times with such cases, and was invited

07:52 by teachers who have certain problematic students. For example,

07:56 they curse at the teacher for having a boyfriend or because she

08:00 eats pork. I have to say just one visit from me was enough.

08:09 I try to explain to the children, speak to their hearts, that this isn’t the

08:19 message of Islam and this does not belong to the teachings in Islam.

08:23 An imam can provide motivation through religion, but

08:28 the be-all and end-all is parenting. You talk about children who go to a mosque,

08:35 but most from these families aren’t practicing Muslims.

08:42 Mr. Sarrazin depicts all Muslims as if they were all Salafists or all radical.

08:48 A huge percentage of Muslims are not even practicing Muslims;

08:55 70% of Muslim women do not wear a head covering. However, Mr. Sarrazin gives another figure.

08:59 So, I was saying, when there are such problems, I help solve them.

09:03 Does your daughter wear a headscarf? —Mr. Kamouss,

09:08 I purposefully brought up the issue of the mosques, because of

09:12 what other teachers and myself have heard from the children.

09:16 For example, Muslim schoolchildren would love to participate in

09:20 school skiing trips. Just one day, longer isn’t possible anyway.

09:25 After being in the mosque, Muslims girls say that they are not allowed to go skiing,

09:31 because “if I go skiing I will lose my virginity.”

09:38 This of course leaves us shocked, so we ask, who tells you

09:43 something like that? The answer was, the hujja in the mosque,

09:49 how is that possible? —That is absurd that a hujja says something like that.

09:53 —Excuse me, but this was a very large mosque where

09:57 many schoolchildren go. —A large mosque in Vienna. —I am asking you,

10:01 how can something like this happen? It is not

10:05 an isolated incident. —First of all, the Muslim community in Austria,

10:10 where we are now, they work hard, and every single day in schools,

10:16 exactly as we do in Germany, to explain Islam to children and their families.

10:20 There is nothing wrong with skiing and there is no

10:24 religious reason not to, but it has more to do with cultural reasons

10:28 with these people who are a minority. For me personally, I allow

10:32 my children to do everything, travel, swimming, and they

10:36 participate in all these things, about which I have no objection.

10:40 However, there are certain areas where it is problematic, for example, sex education.

10:43 There it is possible that my children may see

10:46 something that does not reflect our values. —What for example? —I’ll tell you. What is seen

10:49 in sex education or in biology that does not line up with your values? —Let’s just establish

10:55 one thing first: I have nothing against explaining sexual function.

11:01 —It is part of the school curriculum. —Let me explain, I would like to speak

11:04 without being constantly interrupted, because

11:07 I lose my train of thought. So, I have no objection to sex education.

11:13 However, let me take one example, a project,

11:20 a pedagogical concept that has been developed, and is named School of Diversity,

11:24 in North Rhine-Westphalia. Teachers show films

11:29 of homosexual sex acts to 11-year-old and 12-year-old children. They are shown

11:35 films of groups of homos having sex, and see what they are doing

11:42 with each other. —Oh, Mr. Kamouss. —Please, allow me. Please allow these words to sink in.

11:45 Why are they able to sink in? Please allow me. —Mr. Kamouss,

11:48 we aren’t in a mosque so you don’t need to preach.

11:51 —I am not preaching; I am speaking normally. —I know Berlin well. This

11:55 is nowhere in Berlin. —I would like to finish. —Mrs. Wiesinger asked you

12:01 a specific question. —I am answering. —Not about special projects in North Rhine-Westphalia.

12:05 She asked me what I have against it. —Where is the problem with

12:09 sex education in schoolbooks? —I am telling you,

12:12 I am right in the middle of telling you my main point.

12:16 I have something against it, when 11- and 12-year-olds are

12:21 doing a school play that includes anal sex. Or when they watch films, go and have a look yourself.

12:28 There is nothing like that at any schools in Berlin.

12:32 This is the School of Diversity. This concept was rejected in Hamburg,

12:36 and not just there. I also have something against certain methods,

12:43 but not sex education. —Just a moment,

12:50 so what about a regular biology book that contains explanation of sexual function,

12:53 which is in all schools in Austria, what about that?

12:56 Is that a problem? —For me, as long as… —But it isn’t accepted

13:00 in schools in Vienna. —I have something against,

13:05 I’ll make it very clear. I have nothing against the explanation,

13:09 but when my child feels his modesty is violated, that

13:14 affects him deeply, ask the psychologists… —No one does things like that

13:18 in sex education. —Why do you always interrupt me!?

13:21 Because that is against the law and does not happen in normal sex education.

13:24 Interrupting is not a part of normal healthy communication. —Mr. Kamouss,

13:27 a specific question, and I really need you to stop screaming because it is unpleasant.

13:30 —But if he always interrupts me? —It is very unpleasant; you are screaming. —But if he interrupts?

13:33 —You are screaming, it is not good. —You are making accusation that are

13:37 completely nonsensical. —What exactly violates your child

13:41 in a ordinary biology book in Germany or in Austria?

13:45 When my child has to watch a film showing the sexual practices

13:50 of homosexuals having group sex, that violates my child and

13:55 disturbs his personality. —This does not exist anywhere.

14:00 —You should find out, go have a look. It is called School of Diversity.

14:04 It doesn’t exist in Berlin. —It exists in North Rhine-Westphalia.

14:08 So, Mr. Kamouss you are familiar with — I assume because

14:12 you visit many schools — the absolutely ordinary biology

14:16 books used in Austria for ages 11 to 14. Do you have a problem

14:23 with those? I keep saying the same thing. I don’t have

14:30 anything against these biology books, as long as a child’s decency isn’t violated.

14:34 What does that mean? Does it mean

14:37 they can see a naked penis or not? Excuse me, but this is really ridiculous,

14:42 what you are saying. —When foreplay is being showed…

14:47 Sex involves exposing modesty. —…and it is shown how people

14:51 perform sex acts. This violates the modesty of my children.

14:54 It exists in North Rhine-Westphalia… —Mr. Kamouss! —It exists in North Rhine-Westphalia.

14:59 You can look up School of Diversity.

15:04 OK, we’ve heard you say it ten times now. It was a very specific question:

15:07 if a biology book… —I don’t have a problem with that.

15:10 You are upset that I answer your questions, then you answer before

15:14 I am finished asking. When a naked penis is shown,

15:19 is that a violation of modesty? For me, and not just for me, but for Christians,

15:23 and Jews. —No, no, no, no. —It is a relatively easy

15:28 yes-or-no question, isn’t it? —If I see it as biology then I don’t have

15:32 a problem with it. I have a problem when the boundaries are

15:36 violated. And that’s why I gave these examples. —No, the boundaries

15:39 aren’t being violated. —I have no problem

15:42 with a vagina, but in kindergarten? It is being taught there, by the way,

15:49 I have gathered here all the data. With lists of books. Books that

15:56 criticize this sex education being taught in kindergarten. —This is senseless.

15:59 I thought, excuse me, Mr. Fleischhacker, but I

16:02 thought we came here to answer the question of this show, “How far can we go

16:08 when criticizing Islam?” —We can do that right now.

16:15 And as an introduction, something that will please you, we are going to