eSuBuildings Profile Blog Joined June 2011 United States 71 Posts Last Edited: 2012-12-19 12:22:56 #1



https://docs.google.com/document/d/1xnrfh39SNbE6NHEg_C2Nzz-_zLc3rwinjA9rjU1STZ8/edit



Time for the TL-appropriate/more in-depth version of this guide.



Introduction



Hi, I'm a high masters zerg player named BuildingS. It's nice to meet you. I've been in Masters since October of last year, so please don't yell patch zerg at me.



It's a common known fact that Hydralisks are one of the most unappreciated units in Starcraft II. Of course they're still viable in ZvZ and had their tiny stint of utility in ZvP, but no pro has ever dared to stylize it in ZvT. Sure, Stephano may have used it in some recent tournament, or there was that one guide where someone tried to popularize roach/hydra in ZvT, but none of these ideas ever took flight. People are very quick when it comes to turning down certain styles because "Oh, the pros say it doesn't work." or "Oh, it doesn't work in theory, why would I ever try it in practice?".



But, it DOES work and I will tell you how.



Replacing Infestors? But without my Infestors, how am I supposed to win?



+ Show Spoiler + Don't take the replacing Infestors part entirely to heart, but to a degree it is doable to win ZvT even into the late-game with minimal Infestor use. Remember how Destiny spoke of replacing banelings with infestors? This is the exact same concept, except we're replacing Infestors with Hydralisks.



In what ways does the Hydralisk stack up against the Infestor?



- There are certain timings that a Terran can hit right when Infestors come out. And even though the Infestor can help in holding off attacks, like this, sometimes it isn't enough to truly end the aggression. With the Hydralisk, you have a brute force unit that can help you fend off the coming push and not be useless for the follow-up that might soon be coming.



- The same idea as listed above but in a more aggressive light. Hydras have huge DPS. Enough so that the amount of damage it does is comparable and sometimes even better than the Infestor in certain situations. A proper Ling/Hydra/Bane army can easily destroy a push the same way a Ling/Infestor/Bane army can except the only difference is that you can continue your aggression even further. Destroy a third command center because you can now shoot up, or just continue to lay waste onto your opponents natural considering he hasn't taken his third yet. (Note that with your ability to shoot up, tanks on cliffs aren't as much of a problem in these attacks.)



- You can easily reset the medivac count over and over and over again. There have been many games that I've watched and played where the Zerg loses because the Terran keeps his medivacs alive or because the Zerg was too irresponsible to take out the medivacs or didn't have the energy left on his infestors to take out the medivacs.



- Drop play is easily shut down. This one's really simple.



- Pride. You can rub it in the Terran's face that you just beat him with Hydralisks and not Infestors.







Build Order



+ Show Spoiler + The build order is very very standard and looks the exact same as most gas-less openers.



9 OL

10 - Drone scout (or double drone scout if you're multitasking is enough, but one drone scout will do). This drone is your hero drone. His job is to scout, harass SCV's trying to build things, and steal gas. You want to keep up the gas steal for as long as you can. Many people like to nitpick the details like lost mining time and wasted money through cancels, but trust me, there is hardly any difference.

15 Hatch

17 Pool

17/18 OL

@100% Pool 2x Queen

26 OL

@100% double queens get two more queens.

@6:00 get your third base

@6:30 get 4 gases and 2 evolution chambers

@100 gas get lair

@100 gas get zergling speed

@200 gas get +1 melee and +1 range attack

@50 gas get a baneling nest.

@100% Lair start hydralisk den.





Execution



+ Show Spoiler + This Hydralisk style is very effective because of how well counter-pushes work. I'm not talking about a ling run-by into the third/natural, I'm talking about pushing right after you kill his push. In a meta-game where creep spread is becoming more prevalent, I've decided to use every single aspect of it to my advantage. People talked down Hydralisks because of how slow they were, but now they aren't slow at all. Combining the strength of the counter push and the speed of the Hydra, you'd want your Terran opponent to attack you, right? Of course, but a lot of Terrans greed it out and don't do anything. So our objective is to force him to attack us.



Denying the third hardcore:

Block his third, but not with burrowed lings, but with creep. Not creep spitting from an overlord, creep spawned from creep tumors. To do this, you send out the first queen that spawns from your natural and you move it straight to your opponent's third after you inject larvae with it.



Time your queen's arrival to the designated area with a drone so that the two arrive at the same time. Place down a hatchery and then cancel it so you can spawn creep tumors. Use the drone to scout afterwards. Then you keep spreading creep into his third and outwards to his potential fourth and just everywhere. Remember to keep your creep spread up at your natural and outward, too.



Now with creep spread out everywhere in his third and even his fourth, our terran friend is left with two options. To turtle up and play with the delayed third base, or to pump out units and try to two-base all in you. Either way, this is good for you.



Responses out of the Terran

+ Show Spoiler +

A Turtling Terran



Just get up to four/five bases and get a standard late game comp. He hasn't attacked you, you have no reason to attack him. You have an army suitable for holding off drops and you have map control. Hydras are also cool because they can kill vikings so you don't have to waste late-game infestor energy on viking fungals or infested terrans.



The Two-base all in



Mass up ling/hydra/bane, crush the push, and kill him. EZ.



Replays



+ Show Spoiler +



- Ohana



- Daybreak



- Daybreak



- Ohana



- Ohana - This game is a loss, but it's a game I played out where I wanted to test the longevity of the Hydralisk without Infestors against mech play.



- Ohana



- Cloud Kingdom http://drop.sc/283642 - Ohana http://drop.sc/283643 - Ohana http://drop.sc/283644 - Daybreak http://drop.sc/283645 - Daybreak http://drop.sc/283647 - Ohana http://drop.sc/285135 - Ohana - This game is a loss, but it's a game I played out where I wanted to test the longevity of the Hydralisk without Infestors against mech play. http://drop.sc/285136 - Ohana http://drop.sc/285138 - Cloud Kingdom



Let me know your thoughts, criticisms, questions, etc. Happy laddering! I wrote this guide originally for a forum site I frequent/close with most of the posters. So my original "guide" was very unprofessional. It was a ZvT guide in general with my Hydralisk style dotted in at the end, but if you really want to read it I'll post it up here.Time for the TL-appropriate/more in-depth version of this guide.Hi, I'm a high masters zerg player named BuildingS. It's nice to meet you. I've been in Masters since October of last year, so please don't yell patch zerg at me.It's a common known fact that Hydralisks are one of the most unappreciated units in Starcraft II. Of course they're still viable in ZvZ and had their tiny stint of utility in ZvP, but no pro has ever dared to stylize it in ZvT. Sure, Stephano may have used it in some recent tournament, or there was that one guide where someone tried to popularize roach/hydra in ZvT, but none of these ideas ever took flight. People are very quick when it comes to turning down certain styles because "Oh, the pros say it doesn't work." or "Oh, it doesn't work in theory, why would I ever try it in practice?".But, it DOES work and I will tell you how.Let me know your thoughts, criticisms, questions, etc. Happy laddering! "In nature, for organisms, winning means life and losing is death. Although the example’s a bit extreme, humans too possess some of those instincts. People who’ve learned the fear of defeat, thirst for victory."

Yoshi Kirishima Profile Blog Joined July 2009 United States 9392 Posts Last Edited: 2012-12-17 04:18:31 #2 Just wanted to point out before digging into the guide, your title says you're replacing hydralisks with infestors, instead of the other way ;O i bet many angry/confused/frustrated people will come



(some mod fix please? :D)



Thanks for this guide, this is exciting to hear in WoL Mid-master streaming MECH ONLY + commentary www.twitch.tv/yoshikirishima +++ "If all-in fails, all-in again."

eSuBuildings Profile Blog Joined June 2011 United States 71 Posts #3 OH MY GOD. I'm such an idiot. Mods, if you could help me out here, that'd be absolutely lovely <3 "In nature, for organisms, winning means life and losing is death. Although the example’s a bit extreme, humans too possess some of those instincts. People who’ve learned the fear of defeat, thirst for victory."

iMrising Profile Blog Joined March 2012 United States 1096 Posts #4

so I guess it's not that bad While I'm not a zerg player (I actually uninstalled the game) I really hope that people incorporate hydras instead of infestors.

I hope this guide becomes viable and gains some recognition. I actually came here thinking that he was replacing infestors with hydrasso I guess it's not that badWhile I'm not a zerg player (I actually uninstalled the game) I really hope that people incorporate hydras instead of infestors.I hope this guide becomes viable and gains some recognition. $O$ | soO

Krootie Profile Joined April 2012 Sweden 13 Posts #5 This build must be the best counter to the popular 2-base hellion/marauder push? ”Satan is in the house. He killed my mom... and turned her into a bull.”

Mavvie Profile Blog Joined May 2012 Canada 923 Posts #6 On December 17 2012 13:51 Krootie wrote:

This build must be the best counter to the popular 2-base hellion/marauder push?

Please tell me you're joking.



Lair tech doesn't come until way after a polt-style hellion/rauder push hits. You defend that with roach/bane/ling/queen and micro. It's still very strong though. But yeah this build is no different from a standard gas less 3 hatch, so hellion/rauder Defence is the same. Please tell me you're joking.Lair tech doesn't come until way after a polt-style hellion/rauder push hits. You defend that with roach/bane/ling/queen and micro. It's still very strong though. But yeah this build is no different from a standard gas less 3 hatch, so hellion/rauder Defence is the same. Getting back into sc2 O_o

l46kok Profile Joined December 2010 United States 51 Posts #7 On December 17 2012 13:47 iMrising wrote:

I actually came here thinking that he was replacing infestors with hydras

so I guess it's not that bad While I'm not a zerg player (I actually uninstalled the game) I really hope that people incorporate hydras instead of infestors.

I hope this guide becomes viable and gains some recognition. I actually came here thinking that he was replacing infestors with hydrasso I guess it's not that badWhile I'm not a zerg player (I actually uninstalled the game) I really hope that people incorporate hydras instead of infestors.I hope this guide becomes viable and gains some recognition.



LOL me too. This just shows how undervalued Hydras are in general and how nearly all Zerg players have dismissed them, with the only exception of ZvZ. LOL me too. This just shows how undervalued Hydras are in general and how nearly all Zerg players have dismissed them, with the only exception of ZvZ. oGsMC: "Maybe good brain?"

Defenestrator Profile Joined October 2011 400 Posts #8 I just wanted to say that your idea of hatch-cancelling and creeping his 3rd with creep tumors is hilarious =P



Seems interesting, I'll check out the replays. Ultras and banelings go together like peas and carrots

RaptorJesus Profile Joined May 2009 United States 15 Posts #9 Grammar nazi checking in: "People talked down Hydralisks because of how slow they were, but not they aren't slow at all."

number01 Profile Joined December 2012 200 Posts #10 I've been in Masters since October of last year



LOL and you think you are ready to make changes to the game? please....



At the moment things are close to balanced in WOL, blizzard stated that any type of changes will be addressed on HOTS.



Your ideas are not bad but I do not consider them of high priority.



User was temp banned for this post. LOL and you think you are ready to make changes to the game? please....At the moment things are close to balanced in WOL, blizzard stated that any type of changes will be addressed on HOTS.Your ideas are not bad but I do not consider them of high priority. Idra is the reason I play SC

eSuBuildings Profile Blog Joined June 2011 United States 71 Posts #11 On December 17 2012 14:44 number01 wrote:

Show nested quote +

I've been in Masters since October of last year



LOL and you think you are ready to make changes to the game? please....



At the moment things are close to balanced in WOL, blizzard stated that any type of changes will be addressed on HOTS.



Your ideas are not bad but I do not consider them of high priority. LOL and you think you are ready to make changes to the game? please....At the moment things are close to balanced in WOL, blizzard stated that any type of changes will be addressed on HOTS.Your ideas are not bad but I do not consider them of high priority.



Ready to make changes to the game? Who is trying to change the game? I'm trying to get exposure on an otherwise highly underrated style of play. Ready to make changes to the game? Who is trying to change the game? I'm trying to get exposure on an otherwise highly underrated style of play. "In nature, for organisms, winning means life and losing is death. Although the example’s a bit extreme, humans too possess some of those instincts. People who’ve learned the fear of defeat, thirst for victory."

jcroisdale Profile Blog Joined October 2010 United States 1540 Posts Last Edited: 2012-12-17 06:13:55 #12 On December 17 2012 14:17 RaptorJesus wrote:

Grammar nazi checking in: "People talked down Hydralisks because of how slow they were, but not they aren't slow at all."



grammar? should be down played not talked down. and that last part.....



still thinking about someone talking down a hydralisk, get the negotiator the hydra is going to jump. grammar? should be down played not talked down. and that last part.....still thinking about someone talking down a hydralisk, get the negotiator the hydra is going to jump. "I think bringing a toddler to a movie theater is a terrible idea. They are too young to understand what is happening it would be like giving your toddler acid. Bad idea." - Sinensis

blooblooblahblah Profile Joined February 2011 Australia 4117 Posts #13 On December 17 2012 14:44 number01 wrote:

Show nested quote +

I've been in Masters since October of last year



LOL and you think you are ready to make changes to the game? please....



At the moment things are close to balanced in WOL, blizzard stated that any type of changes will be addressed on HOTS.



Your ideas are not bad but I do not consider them of high priority. LOL and you think you are ready to make changes to the game? please....At the moment things are close to balanced in WOL, blizzard stated that any type of changes will be addressed on HOTS.Your ideas are not bad but I do not consider them of high priority.



I think u completely misread the whole thing. I think u completely misread the whole thing. Ganzi beat me without stim. Ostojiy beat me with a nydus. Siphonn beat me with probes. Revival beat my sentry-immortal all-in.

Yoshi Kirishima Profile Blog Joined July 2009 United States 9392 Posts #14 On December 17 2012 15:50 blooblooblahblah wrote:

Show nested quote +

On December 17 2012 14:44 number01 wrote:

I've been in Masters since October of last year



LOL and you think you are ready to make changes to the game? please....



At the moment things are close to balanced in WOL, blizzard stated that any type of changes will be addressed on HOTS.



Your ideas are not bad but I do not consider them of high priority. LOL and you think you are ready to make changes to the game? please....At the moment things are close to balanced in WOL, blizzard stated that any type of changes will be addressed on HOTS.Your ideas are not bad but I do not consider them of high priority.



I think u completely misread the whole thing. I think u completely misread the whole thing.



I think he read up to that masters part, then assumed this thread was a suggestion thread. In the last sentence he pretends to have read said suggestion thread. I think he read up to that masters part, then assumed this thread was a suggestion thread. In the last sentence he pretends to have read said suggestion thread. Mid-master streaming MECH ONLY + commentary www.twitch.tv/yoshikirishima +++ "If all-in fails, all-in again."

foutre Profile Joined August 2012 30 Posts #15 A couple questions (love the style, would just like to know a few things/understand some choices):



Why +1 melee instead of carapace? It seems like carapace would have more utility, given you're using hydras as well. Is it in order to supplement the baneling aoe to replace fungal dps?



How many hydras should you make before transitioning? I know in ZvZ roach/hydra comps the right number seems to be in the low teens, but I'm not sure how that would translate to ZvT.



Would you ever consider adding in drops to supplement your counterattack potential, or is it just too much gas?



Second (and hopefully this is ok to add in), how do you see this transitioning to HotS? Obviously speed hydras will be much better, but do you get speed or range first versus terran? I guess I'd argue speed in order to catch drops and, well, run away but it's hard to know. Do you think that, given the medivacs new healing rate, hydras will be able to dps as effectively as infestors, especially versus medivac pushes?



Anyway, great guide, I look forward to trying it out!



Keilkan Profile Joined July 2012 Denmark 67 Posts #16 The thing that worries me, is the reasonable transitions you can be making without having armor upgrades going. Ultralisks will completely miss their timings in games where they'd be otherwise strong or even required. ( I'm thinking Antiga as a main contester of having to play Ultralisks. )



Broodlords will also be weaker. Is this worth the tradeoff? How do you make up for the lategame deficit? Blast 'em!

TheManInBlack Profile Blog Joined December 2011 Nigeria 266 Posts #17 On December 17 2012 17:36 Keilkan wrote:

The thing that worries me, is the reasonable transitions you can be making without having armor upgrades going. Ultralisks will completely miss their timings in games where they'd be otherwise strong or even required. ( I'm thinking Antiga as a main contester of having to play Ultralisks. )



Broodlords will also be weaker. Is this worth the tradeoff? How do you make up for the lategame deficit?



I don't think he is planning on maxing out on Zerg Missile attacks, just +1 I think. In WoL, a 200 army full of Hydras is terrible since if it gets killed it'll be too expensive to keep remaxing. I'd assume that after some Lair play, he starts to upgrade carapace.

I don't think he is planning on maxing out on Zerg Missile attacks, just +1 I think. In WoL, a 200 army full of Hydras is terrible since if it gets killed it'll be too expensive to keep remaxing. I'd assume that after some Lair play, he starts to upgrade carapace.

immanentblue Profile Joined January 2011 Denmark 110 Posts #18 Question: what is your general tactical approach to engaging a typical slow pushing marine tank army, where the marines stim in, kill creep, and run back into tank range? With infestors you can obviously fungal, and with mutas you would threaten the tanks if they got too spread out... How does hydras contribute to this situation?

TheManInBlack Profile Blog Joined December 2011 Nigeria 266 Posts Last Edited: 2012-12-17 09:24:15 #19 That's what the Zerglings/Banelings are for I guess.

SweKenZo Profile Joined December 2011 Sweden 82 Posts #20 Sounds really interesting! At work at the moment but ill definately check out the reps when i get home. Have you tried using nydus aswell or do u just want to keep him on 2 bases while teching to hive? Bronze->Silver->Gold->Platinum->Diamond-> ?

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