archived recording 1 All of a sudden, U.S. troops left their observation posts along the Syrian border after the White House said it wouldn’t stand in the way of a Turkish invasion. archived recording 2 Turkey has confirmed that its ground forces are on the move after launching an aerial attack overnight. It comes after the abrupt U.S. pullout from the area. The Kurdish — archived recording 3 Turkey has released a video of its fighter jets bombing Kurdish positions as the nation presses ahead with its invasion. There’s been continual — archived recording 4 The best time to get these 66 women and children out of the Al Hol camp was before the Turkish invasion. The government had little appetite, I must say, to get these people out of Syria before the invasion. And I don’t detect a great appetite now. And it’s certainly now a lot more complicated. Now, their future looks really, really uncertain. And if they do get out, perhaps to Kurdish —

michael barbaro

Yesterday on “The Daily,” we met Kamalle Dabboussy, who for months has been lobbying the Australian government to bring back his daughter and grandchildren, who were being held at a detention center in Syria for the relatives of ISIS fighters. When we left off, Kamalle had just received a call from a journalist that President Trump had just announced he would withdraw U.S. troops from the Syrian border. And it was expected that the Kurdish forces who had been guarding the prisons as allies of the U.S. would abandon their posts, leaving the prisoners’ lives in imminent danger. Today: My colleague Livia Albeck-Ripka follows Kamalle’s journey to convince the Australian government that that danger is greater than the one posed by bringing his daughter home. It’s Tuesday, October 22.

livia albeck-ripka

So Kamalle has a little cry in the car. He gathers his thoughts. And then he pretty much immediately springs into action. About 25 minutes later, he calls this journalist back. He gives them a quote. Another 20 minutes pass — another call from the media. Then other people start doing interviews.

archived recording We don’t want people coming back, having the skills in bomb-making and terrorist activity, to commit an atrocity in our country.

livia albeck-ripka

Conservatives in the country start talking, saying —

archived recording Australians don’t want them back in the country. They don’t trust them. They don’t believe them.

livia albeck-ripka

— no way. We cannot bring these women and children back.

archived recording 1 It’s too dangerous for us to send people in there to get them out. That option went. As soon as the U.S. president said, we’re removing the troops, that option was off the table. archived recording 2 You want to go out there and have this hatred towards Western society and this ideology — we’re not going to just turn around and say, oh, come on back down to Australia. We’re going to look after you. Sorry — no, I won’t.

livia albeck-ripka

So Kamalle does another interview in response to that.

archived recording Please save our children. That’s the plea from a spokesman for the 65 Australians detained in the Al Hol camp in northeastern Syria.

livia albeck-ripka

Then he does a presser.

archived recording (kamalle dabboussy) These are Australian lives. We’re talking about 44 children. We’re talking about 46 children, by some accounts.

livia albeck-ripka

It’s just one interview after the other —

archived recording (kamalle dabboussy) Please, make them safe.

livia albeck-ripka

— after the other.

archived recording (kamalle dabboussy) Make them safe. If you have to assist them anywhere, assist them anywhere around the globe, but you need to make them safe. archived recording Kamalle Dabboussy, thank you very much for talking to AM this morning. archived recording (kamalle dabboussy) Thank you.

livia albeck-ripka

And it’s from here that he makes a plan to drive to Canberra.

[rustling noises and door closing]

livia albeck-ripka

At this point, the government still hasn’t really acknowledged him or the other families. And so he decides he’s going to physically take himself there and meet with as many politicians as he can to lobby — to make a final push in what he believes is this closing window to get his daughter home.

[bell] kamalle dabboussy Hello? livia albeck-ripka Hi, Kamalle! kamalle dabboussy How are you? livia albeck-ripka Sorry, I’m a little late. kamalle dabboussy That’s O.K. You made it. livia albeck-ripka How are you going? I did make it. I think there was a marathon on. And my Uber driver —

livia albeck-ripka

So I meet Kamalle at his cousin’s house in Melbourne.

speaker All right — have good travel — livia albeck-ripka O.K. speaker — safe travels. livia albeck-ripka Thanks very much. speaker All the best. Nice to meet you. livia albeck-ripka Thanks very much. Nice to meet you too. speaker Take care and —

livia albeck-ripka

Then we get on the road. And we’ve got this —

livia albeck-ripka Thank you.

livia albeck-ripka

— six and a half, seven-hour drive ahead of us.

kamalle dabboussy Make yourself comfortable. I should have warned you. One thing about traveling with me — you have to put up with my music, whatever it is. livia albeck-ripka Oh! kamalle dabboussy I’m sorry. livia albeck-ripka What’s your — kamalle dabboussy Well, it’s very — [music - stevie wonder, "superstition"] kamalle dabboussy — sort of late-‘70s — livia albeck-ripka Nice! kamalle dabboussy — ‘80s, not much on the ‘90s. livia albeck-ripka I’m going to actually — where — oh here we go. So the ‘70s are your era? kamalle dabboussy Well — ‘80’s, late-‘70s — livia albeck-ripka Oh, ‘80s — kamalle dabboussy and ‘80s. livia albeck-ripka Do you like Bowie? kamalle dabboussy Oh, yeah.

livia albeck-ripka

So in a lot of ways, it feels like a normal road trip.

kamalle dabboussy [INAUDIBLE]. speaker [SPEAKING ARABIC]. kamalle dabboussy [SPEAKING ARABIC]. speaker [SPEAKING ARABIC]. kamalle dabboussy [SPEAKING ARABIC]. Sorry, habibi, I didn’t have time to —

livia albeck-ripka

But a lot of the time, he’s fielding calls from the other families who are worried about the women and children —

kamalle dabboussy Did it? I’ve tried to speak to confirm. I’ve not been able to get through at all. Did you get a message? Did you? speaker Yes — yeah, I got a message [SPEAKING ARABIC].

livia albeck-ripka

— from the attorney for the families, who wants to discuss their strategy.

speaker Are you able to pull over just for five minutes? kamalle dabboussy Yeah, sure. Just give me a second.

livia albeck-ripka

And more calls from the media.

kamalle dabboussy I’m just trying to sort of find a —

livia albeck-ripka

He’s also hearing from the young women themselves.

speaker (CRYING) How are you? I’m so scared. Oh my God, I don’t know how much longer I can do this for. [phone ringing]

livia albeck-ripka

They’re messaging him, frantic for information.

kamalle dabboussy It’s O.K. [ARABIC]

livia albeck-ripka

The news is developing fast. And there are all kinds of reports flying around. Most of it sounds very bad.

kamalle dabboussy Hello?

livia albeck-ripka

There are rumors that food and water will be cut off from the camps, that ISIS fighters could escape and attack the women.

speaker We’re just laying in our tent. I’m going to send you a photo. All the kids are laying down — made them lay down so the bullets don’t reach them.

livia albeck-ripka

So the women are naturally terrified. Kamalle is receiving these texts —

speaker They killed a few women. And they also injured a few women today.

livia albeck-ripka

— we’re going to die. We don’t deserve this. We need a second chance.

speaker Please, let somebody know.

livia albeck-ripka

And the women in the camps are also texting and trying to get through to their families, who then call Kamalle for clarification.

speaker She said there’s another way. I’ll send it to you now, the message. [SPEAKING ARABIC] She said there’s another way —

livia albeck-ripka

So the whole thing is like this game of broken telephone, and Kamalle is like the operator —

kamalle dabboussy Yeah, this was issued more for the Melbourne families than the Sydney families. speaker O.K. kamalle dabboussy So not to worry too much for the Sydney families, but I will let you know.

livia albeck-ripka

— assuaging people —

speaker O.K. Also, have we heard anything from the government in this regard? Or are we going to wait for the meeting to affirm? kamalle dabboussy We have to wait and see. But we are in there. And we are fighting. We’ve gotten national coverage now on this. speaker Yeah. kamalle dabboussy Yeah, I think we’ve done enough. I don’t think, in the short-term, there’s anything more that we can do. I think it’s just holding our breath really for this week. speaker Yes. Yes. Painful. O.K., then.

livia albeck-ripka

But the one person who he wants to reach most, his own daughter Mariam —

[phone ringing]

livia albeck-ripka

— isn’t answering.

kamalle dabboussy O.K., I’ll try again in an hour’s time with Mariam.

livia albeck-ripka

Finally —

kamalle dabboussy — make this whole process — [phone ringing] livia albeck-ripka Are you calling Mariam? speaker Hello? What [YELLING] —

livia albeck-ripka

— somebody picks up the phone.

speaker [YELLING] Hello?

livia albeck-ripka

You can hear a woman’s voice kind of yelling. And then the call cuts out. Kamalle maintains his calm.

kamalle dabboussy The thing about Victorian roads — they’re relatively straight. livia albeck-ripka Mm. kamalle dabboussy I know, there’s some — but they’re relatively straight.

livia albeck-ripka

We have normal conversations. He’s singing along to the music.

[music - the charlie daniels band, "the devil went down to georgia"] kamalle dabboussy (SINGING) — the boy said, my name’s Johnny. And it might be a sin, but I’ll take your bet, and you’re gonna regret, because I’m the best that’s ever been.

livia albeck-ripka

And as we get closer to Canberra, he says —

livia albeck-ripka Does it feel like a pivotal moment? kamalle dabboussy I don’t want to let myself feel that. I don’t want to build the expectations. livia albeck-ripka Yeah.

livia albeck-ripka

He’s trying to manage the expectations about what he’ll be able to achieve with these lawmakers.

livia albeck-ripka — the attention of politicians or media —

livia albeck-ripka

But he’s also allowing himself to imagine this future in which Mariam is home.

livia albeck-ripka — in a way? kamalle dabboussy I’m immensely looking forward to having her back. I think that I need to check myself. Because the girl that got married and the girl that left is different than the girl that’s coming back. And I need to remind myself of that. And I don’t know what to expect when she gets back, really, and as far as the details go. And I think — I’ve seen it too many times that people expect that old relationship to return or that old person to return. That may be an expectation I don’t want to place on the relationship. It’s going to be a remapping. And it’s going to be a new relationship. And it’s going to be a new woman. It has to. There’s going to be a lot of healing that has to happen. And that has to happen without the expectation of what I think the relationship looks like. I don’t know if that makes sense. livia albeck-ripka Yeah, absolutely. kamalle dabboussy She just needs to heal. And then I need to map the relationship with her. And it’s got to be one that’s two adults back in the relationship. It’s — it’s just terribly complex what’s going to happen next. [music - cat stevens, "wild world"]

livia albeck-ripka

So after seven hours on the road, we make it. We get to Canberra.

[seatbelts unbuckling] kamalle dabboussy O.K., let’s get ourselves fixed up.

michael barbaro

We check into our hotel.

livia albeck-ripka O.K. kamalle dabboussy I’ll see you in the morning. livia albeck-ripka Good night, Kamalle. kamalle dabboussy O.K., good night. Thanks. livia albeck-ripka You get some rest.

livia albeck-ripka

We say our good nights and get to bed. But at some point in the night, after we go to sleep, there’s this news. The Kurds have struck a deal with Syria, with the Assad regime. And the women fear the worst, that its troops could take over the camp, raping them, turning them into slaves, or worse.

speaker Hi, this is an Australian in the camps. We just got news that the Kurds have allied with — have allied with the regime.

livia albeck-ripka

And in the hours that followed, the women are sending Kamalle frantic voice memos from the camp.

speaker (CRYING) One of the — one of their deals with the — one of their deals is to give us women ISIS prisoners and women and children from the camps to Bashar and to transfer us to Damascus. This is not — this is not what we deserve. We’re scared. We need help. We really need urgent help. The majority of these kids are little babies. We don’t want them to be raised in regime prisons. At least our kids, at least their children — they don’t deserve to see this. They don’t deserve to see this. Please, please, please! Before it’s too late. Within the next few days, it’s going to happen. Please. Please, help us. I know nobody can really come here and help us. But somebody needs to say something. Somebody needs to do something. I don’t want to be forgotten. I don’t want to be ignored from the world. I don’t want my kids to be ignored from the world. Please, please, please, please, just save us from here.

[music]

archived recording The Kurds did a deal with the Syrian government to fend off a Turkish offensive. They say they had to choose between compromise and genocide. For the first time in seven years —

livia albeck-ripka

The next day, we wake up to the news that the Kurds have formed a deal with Syria.

archived recording 200,000 people have fled their homes, heading to —

livia albeck-ripka

Which, for Kamalle, is a horrendous thought. He thinks that if the Syrians take over the camps, the women are as good as dead. In fact, he says, death would be the more merciful option.

[chatter]

livia albeck-ripka

So when Kamalle shows up in Parliament that day, he is on a mission.

livia albeck-ripka We’re just walking through the press gallery in Canberra, in Parliament. You can see all the different national media outlets — Channel 10, ABC, SBS. We’re heading into an interview where Kamalle’s going to be interviewed by Channel 7. speaker 1 A little backlight, Pete. speaker 2 There you go, guys. You should be able to hear each other. kamalle dabboussy Hello there. speaker Hi, is it Kamalle? Is that how I say it? kamalle dabboussy Yes, that’s right, yes. speaker Hi, Kamalle. It’s Ray from Channel 7. How’re you going? kamalle dabboussy I’m good. Thank you, Ray. speaker That’s good. Obviously, this story is huge.

livia albeck-ripka

Media are asking him the same questions over and over again.

speaker And what’s her name? kamalle dabboussy Mariam — Mariam Dabboussy. speaker Obviously, now it’s getting very violent. What’s your message to our government about your Australian daughter who’s stuck in a detention camp at the moment?

livia albeck-ripka

As Kamalle gives these interviews over and over and over and over —

kamalle dabboussy [COUGHING] speaker 1 Happy with levels and everything? speaker 2 Yeah, I’m just going to get some cuts.

livia albeck-ripka

— his body is actually wearing down. He’s getting sick.

kamalle dabboussy My name’s Kamalle Dabboussy. I’ve been —

livia albeck-ripka

But he can’t let himself stop.

kamalle dabboussy — not once.

livia albeck-ripka

He’ll talk to anybody.

speaker Have you managed to speak to your daughter while she’s there? kamalle dabboussy We’ve had sporadic contact. Phones are a difficult issue. But there are some central places where you can buy time on a phone.

livia albeck-ripka

But of course, the real reason that Kamalle came here is to talk to the politicians, the lawmakers who will ultimately decide the fate of these women and children.

[footsteps]

livia albeck-ripka

And so he has meetings lined up with any of them who will listen.

livia albeck-ripka Heading on in to speak with Kristina Keneally, who is the shadow minister of home affairs — [knocking] livia albeck-ripka — just knocking on the door now. speaker Hello. Here we are. Thanks so much. kamalle dabboussy The other one might be — maybe ours. O.K. Catch you later. livia albeck-ripka O.K., do you think there’s a chance they’ll let me in the room? kamalle dabboussy No, not this one. No. livia albeck-ripka O.K. kamalle dabboussy I know this one won’t. Sorry. livia albeck-ripka All right. kamalle dabboussy O.K. I know that. livia albeck-ripka O.K., all right. Catch you afterwards. kamalle dabboussy Thanks. speaker Nice to meet you, man. [door closing]

livia albeck-ripka

I’m following him as best I can. But a lot of it is behind closed doors.

michael barbaro

And from what you can tell, what’s the reception that Kamalle is getting?

livia albeck-ripka

It’s not a very favorable one. Australia has a conservative government. And a lot of the comments that these lawmakers are making indicate that they are really opposed to bringing these women home. There’s one man in particular, the home affairs minister, Peter Dutton, who is especially outspoken. He’s saying things like, based on the evidence that he has received, some of these women could be capable of making bombs or even unleashing what he describes as a mass casualty.

[chatter]

livia albeck-ripka

Kamalle says that, based on what he knows of these women, they weren’t fighters. He describes them as baby-making machines. He talks about this one girl in particular who went into Syria at 15 and, by 19, she has three children. So this leads him to believe that it’s very possible a lot of these women were coerced. They were forced, including his own daughter. In all the years that Mariam was with ISIS, Kamalle didn’t quite know what to think about what had happened, about how much had been her own choice. But that day in the camp, when he sees her after all that time, he finally gets to ask her. And she told him a story that, when she and her husband, Khaled, had gone to Turkey to stay with his family back in 2015, that, after a few months, he told her and the rest of the family that they needed to go to the Syrian border to rescue a relative who had joined ISIS but now wanted out. And Mariam says, when they get there, all of a sudden, gunshots are ringing into the air. Everybody’s running. There’s mayhem. And then she’s forced at gunpoint, with her child, into a car, which takes them across the border into Syria. And it’s not until Mariam sees this ISIS flag flying from this halfway house that she understands what has happened to her. And Kamalle believes his daughter.

livia albeck-ripka Do you see Mariam, in this, purely as a victim? Or do you think she may have made some choices herself? kamalle dabboussy Mariam’s choices have been to survive. I see her purely as a victim. And everything that comes from then has been just to survive. I don’t see her as a perpetrator at all. She is a victim. And any decision she’s made has been solely to survive and for the best interests of her kids. And I firmly believe that. livia albeck-ripka I’m sorry to belabor this point, but I have to ask. These women are Australian women. They grew up in a Western country with Western values. And the idea that they were forced, tricked, duped — that they had no agency whatsoever — I can see why that might be a hard pill for some people in the Australian public to swallow. Because what does that say about women? kamalle dabboussy From the Australian context, I think if you are raised as an Anglo in Anglo communities for most of your life, one might say, I find this hard to believe. But then I’ve also had people come and tell me, you know, if my husband said, let’s go for a holiday, or my husband told me, we’re going to go and do this great humanitarian act of trying to save a family member from a terrible regime, I would be there backing him up 100 percent. And I would be supporting him all the way. So I do get a mixture of views from the public that say that putting myself in those shoes — in Mariam’s shoes — they actually would have supported their husbands. And most of the women that made those choices to go went because they were trying to protect their family unit. And culturally, this is raised as the most important thing in your life — your family, your family, your family. You do whatever you can to save your family unit. And that is the sort of number one cultural value that persists within the Muslim community, is that family unit is so important. So even if your husband’s made a mistake, you still support your husband, even if he’s made a mistake. And that’s the culture the women were raised in, predominantly. livia albeck-ripka But you didn’t raise Mariam like that. kamalle dabboussy No, that’s why he had to trick her to go across the border. Mariam would never have agreed to that. But she wanted family. So even if she’d had a warning sign, she probably would have dismissed it in her brain, because she actually wanted family so much, as well. So yes, she was independent. And yes, she was stubborn. And she was fiery. And she was feisty — or let’s say lively — is lively. But I think, if she had any doubts, until there was something concrete, she would have just been dismissive, because she wanted family so much. livia albeck-ripka So you think maybe there were red flags for her and she pushed them away, because — kamalle dabboussy I think potentially. I think to myself, even if there were some smaller red flags —

livia albeck-ripka

You know, I think that despite Kamalle’s unwavering belief in his daughters story, he does understand. He understands why people might be afraid for these women to come home. But he also kind of says, that’s not the point. The bigger point here is we don’t know these women’s culpability. So he says, let’s bring them back, and let’s have due process applied before we turn our backs on these women assuming that they’re guilty. He says this is what a country like Australia actually owes its citizens, whether they’re guilty or not guilty. And right now, we just don’t know. Basically, what he’s saying is there are dangers, yes, with repatriating people, but there are also dangers with not. And that’s why he’s in Canberra, fighting for their right to come home.

speaker Hi, everyone. Hi. livia albeck-ripka I’m Livia. I’m a reporter with The New York Times. speaker Nice to meet you, Livia. livia albeck-ripka Nice to meet you. speaker How are you? kamalle dabboussy Yes, good. Kamalle. speaker Kamalle — [SPEAKING ARABIC]

livia albeck-ripka

So I’m following Kamalle around, office to office. It seems like at least some of these lawmakers are empathetic to his plight. But it’s not clear whether they have any power to actually change the situation. There were definitely no promises made. But there’s this moment — he bumps into an M.P. in the hall, an old acquaintance. And this guy says, we’ve been discussing your issue at length this morning. This seems to energize Kamalle. He gets excited. He thinks, things might be about to change. Maybe government was in the process of reaching a decision. But then some time passes, and there’s no news. And there’s really nothing left to do there but wait. So after the last meeting of the day, we leave. We don’t drive back to Melbourne, where Kamalle had been meeting with families. We drive to Sydney, where he lives and where a whole other group of families are awaiting his news.

livia albeck-ripka O.K., we are just driving away from Parliament back towards Sydney. It’s about a three-hour trip. It looks like, at this point, there’s no news, and —

livia albeck-ripka

On the drive, Kamalle seems a little deflated. But he’s still hopeful.

livia albeck-ripka O.K., we’re at Trappers. Oh, wow! There’s the giant sheep! kamalle dabboussy Well, I said to the big marina. [LAUGHS]

livia albeck-ripka

And then Kamalle says, we have to pull over to this place called Trappers.

kamalle dabboussy This was a big stop back in the day.

livia albeck-ripka

They make the best vanilla slice, which is like this puff pastry with custard inside. And he says, this is the best vanilla slice in Australia. So we pull in. We walk inside. Kamalle gets two vanilla slices, one for each of us. And we’re eating, having a coffee. Each of us are just taking a moment, checking the news on our phone. And suddenly, Kamalle is tapping the table, trying to get my attention. He points to his phone. It’s Mariam.

kamalle dabboussy I know. I know. I know. And — yeah — about the what? Why? No, that’s not, that’s not the information that we’re getting. That’s not the information that we’re getting.

livia albeck-ripka

So Kamalle has the phone up to his ear. We’re in a loud cafe. I can’t hear Mariam on the other side.

kamalle dabboussy O.K., well, listen —

livia albeck-ripka

But he’s comforting her.

kamalle dabboussy What I can tell you —

livia albeck-ripka

And he’s calling her an affectionate name.

kamalle dabboussy O.K., listen. Listen to me. Listen to me. I have had it confirmed to me from several different sources that the border crossing between Syria and Iraq is open, and it’s working. So that information —

livia albeck-ripka

The women are just terrified that the Assad regime is going to take over the camp, and that they’ll be raped, tortured, killed. And he’s comforting her and comforting her. And he’s telling her, I was just in Parliament. Somebody told me they had a meeting this morning. There could still be a decision today. I’m doing my best. I’m doing my best.

kamalle dabboussy I can tell you that there was a cabinet meeting this morning. I think — I think there is some movement, but we’ve not yet been informed. I am trying to get information as we speak and trying to get contacts and networks to give me some indication.

livia albeck-ripka

The call goes on for some time. And it’s clear, even just from hearing the one side, that Mariam is becoming increasingly frantic.

kamalle dabboussy O.K. Believe me. We have said — all come home. We are all very worried about that. We have been making the statements about that. But —

livia albeck-ripka

She’s heard that one of the Australian women in the camp is having her citizenship revoked. And she’s panicking.

kamalle dabboussy The government have told us and the information that we have is that three people have lost their citizenship, and only three people have lost.

livia albeck-ripka

Kamalle does his best to calm her down.

kamalle dabboussy There’s no confirmation the second one is a woman, no confirmation.

livia albeck-ripka

But at a certain point —

kamalle dabboussy I know that, Baba. Baba — but Baba, I — I don’t think that’s what you’re facing. I don’t think that’s what you’re facing, O.K.? I — Baba — Baba — I know — I know — [CRYING IN ARABIC] mariam dabboussy (on phone) [CRYING IN ARABIC]

livia albeck-ripka

They both start crying. And he puts her on speakerphone.

mariam dabboussy (on phone) (CRYING) [SPEAKING ARABIC]

livia albeck-ripka

It’s clear that nothing he’s saying is really consoling her. She’s spinning through all of these different scenarios.

kamalle dabboussy — as fast as we can. And can I tell you? I was walking through the corridors of Parliament today. And people were stopping me, shaking my hand, telling me, we wish you all the best. We hope you get your children back. Like, strangers stopping me in the corridors of Canberra, doing this.

livia albeck-ripka

So finally, he says to her, let me talk to my grandson. So she pulls him in. And he’s talking to his grandson. And —

kamalle dabboussy [SPEAKING ARABIC]

livia albeck-ripka

Kamalle’s face just lights up.

kamalle dabboussy [SPEAKING ARABIC]

livia albeck-ripka

He’s having this back and forth with his grandson.

grandchild (on phone) [INAUDIBLE].

livia albeck-ripka

And after that, he talks to Mariam for a few more minutes. And the conversation ends.

kamalle dabboussy [SPEAKING ARABIC]

livia albeck-ripka

And we get back in the car. And Kamalle puts on this 45-minute song in Arabic —

kamalle dabboussy [SPEAKING ARABIC] — “She Walked Between Us.”

livia albeck-ripka

— that he says is one of his favorites.

kamalle dabboussy — a 45-minute song.

livia albeck-ripka

And we’re listening to it as we drive back to Sydney.

[music]

michael barbaro

In the days since Livia traveled to Canberra with Kamalle, Turkey and the Syrian Kurdish forces declared a temporary ceasefire. But even if the ceasefire holds, the Australian government has said they would still consider it too risky to extract the families of ISIS fighters. Officials have said they would not be willing to put other lives in danger to save the women and children. On Friday in Canberra, Home Affairs Minister Peter Dutton spoke to reporters. They’ve been fighting in the name of an evil organization, he said. And there are consequences.

[music]

michael barbaro

Livia, I’m thinking back to where Miriam’s story started and to Kamalle saying that, from a young age, she wanted to be part of a big family. And when she got a baby sister, they were very close. I’m just curious whether they have a relationship now.

livia albeck-ripka

They do, as much as they can, given the circumstances. When I was in Parliament with Kamalle, we had this quiet moment. And he showed me some pictures of Mariam in the camp. And he told me about how, like many of the women there, she wanted to send something home for her family, for her sister. And so she collected these little bits of scrap metal, things she could find. And she made a ring for her sister and gave it to Kamalle to take home with him.

kamalle dabboussy It was —

livia albeck-ripka

And she also makes her this video. And she says to her sister —

mariam dabboussy Ah, thank you so much for [INAUDIBLE], habibi. I actually look like I’m dying. And I don’t usually look inside a mirror. So this is actually horrible. [CHUCKLES]

livia albeck-ripka

I’m so sorry. I look horrible. I haven’t looked in a mirror in ages. And she’s like, but I miss you so much. And I’m so excited to see you.

mariam dabboussy Do what you need to do, O.K.? [SIGH] Have a lot of things to catch up on each other when I see you. And I love you. And please, can you look after Dad? He’s acting strong. I don’t know how strong he really is. [SPEAKING ARABIC] I love you, O.K.? And no matter what, you’re always my sister. And I have a lot of things to talk to you about when I see you, inshallah.

livia albeck-ripka

And I have so, so much to tell you.

mariam dabboussy I love you, habibi. I wish we could have talked more often. I don’t know why we never was able to speak properly. [CHILD CHATTERING] Until — until I’ll be able to talk to you soon. I love you. Thank you for everything, everything. [INAUDIBLE] Love you, habibi. kamalle dabboussy [SIGH] And she’s still there. And she’s still there. She’d also left me a video message, which was absolutely heartbreaking for me to hear. And I haven’t played it again. I only played it once. But they’re still there. And we are here. And they just need to make it safe.

[music]

michael barbaro