FilmForce's Kenneth Plume recently talked to Kirk Thatcher

While Thatcher's name may not be instantly recognizable, his face may be remembered by genre fans as the "punker on the bus" in Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home – whose blaring & acidic music confounded Kirk and Spock, prompting Spock to silence the cacophony with a fabled "Vulcan neck grip".

However, Thatcher is much more than just "the punker on the bus" – he has the unique blessing of having been creatively involved with several of fantasy & science fiction's most beloved franchises: Star Trek (as an Associate Producer), Star Wars (as a Creature Shop technician), and the Muppets (as a writer).

How cool can cool get? Find out in Thatcher's own words...

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PLUME: Can you give me a little background on yourself?

THATCHER: I started in the industry when I was about 19 at Lucasfilm...ILM...working in the creature shop on Return of the Jedi. I was a self-taught movie and monster maker. I made masks and creatures at home.

PLUME: Are you from the California area?

THATCHER: I'm from Los Angeles, so when I was growing up, I would talk to people like Rick Baker and John Chambers – who were very helpful in answering questions. I was just like most guys in the effects industry, just doing stuff in the kitchen sink and in the garage.

When I was in high school, I met the production designer for Star Wars...a guy named Joe Johnston...and he'd been very kind in showing me around ILM when they were still based in Los Angeles. So after I'd gone to UCLA for two semesters, I called Joe up and said that college just wasn't working for me...they wouldn't even let me touch a Super 8 camera until I was a junior...and [asked if there] was any chance that I could come work at ILM.

He said, "You know, we're gearing up for the next Star Wars movie...Return of the Jedi...and we're starting up a creature shop, so send up your resume." So I sent up my resume, and had an interview with Tom Smith, and got the job as a technical assistant – which is basically the lowest man on the totem pole at the company.

THATCHER: Exactly – a working man. So I started working at ILM in the creature shop. I actually helped set up the creature shop, working for Phil Tippet. I actually painted the walls, and helped set up the paint room to paint the creatures. I worked in the mold shop – basically just A to Z, from sculpting to molding to fabricating to painting them and shipping them out the door.

PLUME: So this is what – 1981?

THATCHER: 1981. Basically starting about March, and we worked on the movie until about Christmas – then sent everything to London. For most of the Spring and Summer of '82, I was on location with the movie. I went to Yuma, Arizona and then Oregon. After that, I worked on a bunch of other things at ILM. I worked on Star Treks II and III, Poltergeist, and E.T. – I was one of the guys that painted E.T.. I had a great time at ILM, learning a bunch of stuff, then Chris Walas got this movie...Gremlins...and Chris and I had become friends, since he had worked at ILM also.

Thatcher behind the scenes on Return of the Jedi: (l-r) with Nien Nunb; the Rancor beast from Jabba's Palace; a slew of Admiral Ackbar headpieces; Ewoks & crew, on-location.

THATCHER (contd): He got Gremlins on his own, so I worked with Chris for about a year and helped set his place up and work on Gremlins. After that David Fincher [director of Seven, The Game, and most recently Fight Club] and I wanted to break out and do our own thing, so we started a rock video company.

We were the two youngest guys at ILM – he's actually a year younger than I am. He'd been a camera assistant in the matte department. So we did some rock videos together. I was the production designer, and he was the director. It was a lot of mind-bendingly difficult work for very little money, and no time. We had a motto, "We can do it – but it won't be fun". We did some Rick Springfield videos, and some Martha Davis and the Motels videos. This is about '83-'84. We did about 10-12 videos together, and then I moved down to L.A. – and he [Fincher] moved down from San Francisco soon after and helped form Propaganda Films.

After I moved down, I interviewed for Star Trek IV to basically be Leonard Nimoy's right-hand guy...and got that job...and eventually became Associate Producer on the film. Working closely with Leonard Nimoy was great. I started out as assistant to the director and it eventually became Associate Producer. He wanted to call me "Associate Director," but there was no title like that...and the DGA wouldn't allow it...and so they called me an Associate Producer. He was great – it was the best job I ever had. He let me do a lot of stuff. He let me write dialogue and design aliens, work with the prop and art departments. I was in heaven.

PLUME: So, basically, you were a jack-of-all-trades...

THATCHER: Yeah, a jack-of-all-trades – which is why he'd hired me. I'd done all that at ILM...and on my own...and he wanted someone he could trust to see things through. He was definitely directing the picture...don't get me wrong... but he trusted that I would make sure he was getting what he wanted, so he didn't have to focus on it. Because on Star Trek III, he just felt overwhelmed by all the technical stuff...especially all the special effects stuff...because it's such a technical process. He couldn't tell if people were telling him the truth, or just giving him a run-around – so he kind of wanted someone in his camp. We got along great, and we're still very good friends.

Thatcher behind the scenes on Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home: (l-r) on the Starfleet Headquarters set with director Leonard Nimoy; having fun outside the Bird of Prey with (l-r) DeForest Kelly, James Doohan, Nichelle Nichols, Walter Koenig, and George Takei.

PLUME: How did your cameo in "Star Trek IV" come about?

THATCHER: Well, we were writing the movie...and I was there from the very beginning – even in the script stages...and they wrote this little bit for this punk rocker.

The original idea was that the punk flipped off Spock, then Spock gave him the Vulcan neck grip. I actually came up with the idea of...when he passed out...his face turning off the radio. I actually added a couple little comedy bits. He was supposed to give me the Vulcan "Live Long and Prosper" sign after I flicked him off, but we cut that out. Then I added the scene where Scotty talks to the computer – when the guy tells him to use the mouse, and he holds it up and tries to use it like a microphone. I've always been a Macintosh fan, so I said, "It has to be a Macintosh." Leonard said, "That's funny, let's use it."

Back to the cameo: it was this little bit in the movie, and I walked into Leonard's office and said, "I want to play the punk on the bus." Leonard's got a great sense of humor...he's very funny...so he looks at me with this big smile and says, "Reaaally." I said, "Yeah, I think I'd do a great job. I'll shave my head, get a mohawk, whatever." He said, "Let me think about it."

I said okay, and I was going crazy, because... in 2 weeks...he didn't say anything – and I promised him I wouldn't bother him. I said, "Look, I'm not going to bother you, I'm only going to ask you this one time," so I really had to live with it and not bother him. I never brought it up, never hinted at it, nothing. So...about 2 weeks later...I walk to his office like I did every day, and he said, "Oh, by the way, you can do it." I said, "What. You mean...?" "Yep, you can play the punk." I was like, "Ohhh thank you, thank you." So I went out, shaved the sides of my head, dyed my hair orange and got a mohawk – because they don't really make a mohawk hairpiece that looks real. So I actually had a bright road cone orange mohawk for about 6 months.

PLUME: I'm sure they really respected you on the set after that...

THATCHER: Oh it was great – it was a blast. The first time DeForest Kelley saw me with this outrageous hairstyle, he looked me up and down very slowly and said, "Nice shoes". He then broke into a huge grin and ambled away. He had a very dry sense of humor.

PLUME: You were featured rather prominently on the French poster for the film...

THATCHER: That's what somebody told me.

PLUME: So the French love you...

THATCHER: They would – I have sort of a French attitude in the movie.

PLUME: That shows you the cultural impact you've had worldwide...

THATCHER: Exactly. Leonard said I got the biggest laugh in the entire movie in Russia – because Russia was fraught with punk rockers before The Wall had fallen. So they got a big laugh out of that.

PLUME: You're an icon now...

THATCHER: Yeah, I could win the Nobel Peace Prize and my grave would still say "Punk On Bus – Star Trek IV".

The funny thing was – I got to write and sing that song that was playing on the radio. "I Hate You" [written by Kirk Thatcher and performed by The Edge of Etiquette.] We shot the scene with no sound – there was no music playing. I was just miming to a beat. After we wrapped the movie, the music department was coming to us, and they were playing...like...Duran Duran, or whoever Paramount had some deal with.

I said, "That isn't punk rock music. Punk rock is really raw and gritty and dirty." They said, "Well, we don't really deal with the Sex Pistols and stuff." I said to Leonard, "You know, let me write you a song. I can do a song." I was becoming good friends with the sound editor...Mark Mangini...and a couple of the guys in his sound department. I told Leonard, "We can do a song for you that will sound like a punk rock song. Just let us do it, and you won't have to pay for the rights or anything. And, it will be better than Duran Duran." So I went in with Mark and he wrote the music for it.

[EDITOR'S NOTE: the full lyrics to this song are printed at the bottom of this page.]

THATCHER (contd): I had a melody in mind...but I don't write music...so he turned it into something that could be played on the guitar. We then recorded it in the hallway of the post-production sound facility which Mark had, so it would sound bad and very distorted – as if recorded in a garage. We actually used the mics that the sound guys use to do key codes like, "Spock walking down the street, Take 1" – it's just a cheap mic so it would sound really bad. We did this one weekend. Leonard came in on a Saturday and listened to it...cracked up...and said, "Great. That's it. We'll use it." And that's how "I Hate You" came to be.

PLUME: It was used in another film, wasn't it?

THATCHER: Yeah, it was used in "Back To The Beach", with Frankie and Annette. They called me up and said, "Can we use it?" and I said, "Yeah." I actually got paid more for them using it in that than I did for Star Trek.

Hey, here is a little known fact for all the Trekkies: the voice of the computer...at the beginning of Star Trek IV when Spock is doing that computer test...that's me – I actually wrote those questions. We shot with my voice as a temp track, which we sped up, just so Leonard would have something to react to. So we shot with that, and we used it on the temp track. Finally, they're getting ready to redo it, and they asked Leonard and he says, "Naw, it's fine. Just use that." So after doing all this other stuff, that's how I got my SAG card. For being the voice of the computer! And it's the only thing that I'm not credited for, because...if I was [credited]...my name would have been in the credits four times. It would have been in there more than anyone else's name.

PLUME: You just insinuated yourself everywhere...

THATCHER: I did, yeah. It wasn't anything I lobbied for – it just sort-of happened. When I hear that computer voice now , I cringe because it sounds so goofy.

PLUME: Well, the film still works...

THATCHER: It's amazing. It made about $130 million in the US, and I believe the last Star Trek movie only broke $90 million. It just blew all the other Trek movies out of the water with how successful it was. I think a lot of it is due to Leonard's sense of humor, and the fact that Leonard wanted to make a lighthearted romp instead of a serious science fiction picture. It really reached out to a broader audience.

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"I HATE YOU" Lyrics by Kirk R. Thatcher Music by Mark Mangini

: Here...fully printed & intelligible for the first time anywhere (to the best of our knowledge)...are the complete lyrics to Thatcher's punker / hate song from

(to be sung Allegro con Temptible)