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The Patriarchy Neurosis [ edit ]

To recapitulate the main article points of definition: "Patriarchy" (derived from patriarch in Greek) is a term for societies in which (1) male is the favored gender, and in which (2) men hold power, dominion and privilege. (3)That position is reinforced by societal and cultural norms, religious teachings, media portrayals of gender roles (specifically female inferiority), the use of perceived feminine characteristics as insults, and even formal definition of gender roles, including laws limiting women's rights.

"Male power in a patriarchy can be found at family, community, social and governmental levels. For example, in the family realm, fathers could have dominion over their unmarried daughters, husbands over their wives, and sons over widowed mothers. The "man of the house" makes the ultimate decision on everything from size of family to the family budget to methods of discipline. In the community, businesses are generally run by men and local leaders as well as respected elders are men. The social rules and norms are set and enforced by men.

"The formal definition of patriarchy as a form of government is of one controlled by men by designed limitation, be it functionally a theocracy, a monarchy, dictatorship or partial democracy with limited enfranchisement. Colloquially,

"any government comprised disproportionately of men can be described as a patriarchy, even full democracies." But it must be added that the so-called patriarchy may have no other typical characteristics of Patriarchy. In this case we might well call it a pseudo-patriarchy. This condition occurs in America where religious elements of Patriarchy are isolated from the constitutional government and the main characteristics of patriarchal society are no longer accepted as necessary. One can just as easily argue that today women are the "favored gender" in America. The assignment of privilege is also questionable as women may possess privileges men do not possess. We see in America a culture in transition wherein the main, most significant characters of patriarchy, have been disavowed, repealed, or simply discarded. And yet many people are triggered by the vestigial remnants of the once vital and dynamic American Patriarchy as if the old order still were in place. This is the Patriarchy Neurosis.Shinola (talk) 04:06, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

Maybe that will be true in 50 years. Anecdotally and statistically, females still face disproportionate wages, harassment, and religious involvement, among other issues. At worst, men face the cult of masculinity. As such, a pseudo patriarchy (as you call it) can be said to exist, and the neurosis is not yet a valid diagnosis. The FCP Foundation (talk/stalk) 04:52, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

This class thinking is unscientific. Anecdotally and statistically men face similar inequities. Females as individuals do not face wage discrimination, as is well known. Young educated woman are wage leaders in their chosen fields. The neurosis diagnosis is applicable only to those who see the things that are no longer there, such as discrimination due to statistical anomalies. I agree that there is a pseudo-patriarchy that is comprised of remnants of an extinct patriarchy. What can be said of the rump structure of the old patriarchy is that religious patriarchy is still present. Unfortunately it is not an issue that can be dealt with by women as a class. The catholic patriarchy, for example, can only be dealt with by catholic people.The sexist disparities in Catholicism may be with us for the next thousand years.Shinola (talk) 13:34, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

Based on...Oh, you seem to have forgot any data that supports your assertions. Also, anecdotes are not data. Anecdotes are points of data. Also, this is a speculative discussion. I will gladly consider any valid data that you may present. The arithmetic averages of male and female earnings are not determinative. http://content.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,2015274,00.html Shinola (talk) 13:54, 15 March 2016 (UTC) What's this? Pseudo-intellectual posturing claiming that a sociological phenomenon is merely a delusion, based on nothing more than strong assertion and the fervent belief that flowery language is a good substitute for evidence and logic? Must be Tuesday. Queex chthonic murmurings 14:10, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

Young educated women are wage earners? The AAUW would beg to disagree. Cømяade FυzzчCαтPøтαтø (talk/stalk) 14:18, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

Yes, again their conclusions are from non-determinative data averages over non-equivalent fields. Unfortunately neither of the authors are evidently skilled at interpreting statistics. There are many people suffering from this very real neurosis that amounts to a sexual inferiority complex. It quite often manifests itself in anxiety and the inability to face the problem squarely through disinterested argument.Shinola (talk) 15:30, 15 March 2016 (UTC) They know more statistics than you, apparently. 'Non-determinative data' is not a real statistical term. The regression in the report is about as comprehensive as you could hope for, in the field. Don't try to pretend you know much about statistics; it's not working. Queex chthonic murmurings 15:37, 15 March 2016 (UTC) Well, obviously people who spent years getting educated in the subject, got hired to do so professionally, and have years of experience doing it professionally are not skilled at it because a random person on the internet disagrees. -EmeraldCityWanderer (talk) 15:54, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

I'm just gonna quote the report:

In estimating the regression equation, we defined the dependent variable as the natural log of average annual earnings. The resulting regression coefficients can be interpreted as the percentage change in annual earnings for a one-unit change in the independent variable. For the regression, we specified an equation in which log annual earnings one year after graduation are a function of the employee’s characteristics, including job and workplace, employment experience and continuity, education and training, and demographic and personal characteristics. We selected model variables from those examined in the bivariate analyses on the basis of preliminary tests of multicollinearity. We entered multicategorical variables in their entirety even if some categories were not significant. We analyzed earnings for all full-time workers and those with multiple jobs. Variables that were not significant were not included in the final model (see figure 13 for a list of the variables used in the regression equation). We combined earnings for women and men and used an independent variable of gender to see whether women’s and men’s earnings were statistically significantly different after controlling for other choices and characteristics. The regression coefficient of gender (see the top line in figure 13) can be interpreted as the remaining percentage difference in earnings when taking into account the other variables in the model. This model shows that in 2009, women working full time or multiple jobs one year after college graduation earned, other things being equal, 6.6 percent less than their male peers did. This estimate controls for differences in graduates’ occupation, economic sector, hours worked, employment status (having multiple jobs as opposed to one full-time job), months unemployed since graduation, grade point average, undergraduate major, kind of institution attended, age, geographical region, and marital status. Throughout the report, earnings are reported for full-time workers only. In figures in which full-time employment status is not indicated, we include all 2007–08 graduates. In the regression analysis, we include full-time workers as well as those with multiple jobs. Hours worked per week and having multiple jobs are both signifi- cant coefficients in the regression analysis. The regression analysis of earnings one year after graduation for the combined sample of women and men shows a gender pay difference of 6.6 percent, controlling for education and occupational choices as well as demographic and personal characteristics (see figure 13). That is, when we include all the selected job and workplace, education and training, and demographic and personal variables, women earned 6.6 percent less in 2009 than men earned.

oʇɐʇoԀʇɐϽʎzznℲ (talk/stalk) 17:30, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

The first link/footnote pointing to a wikipedia article about sexual assaults in US military is completely irrelevant to the topic of Patriarchy.

It talks about how both men and women have been sexually assaulted, men were sexually assaulted more often than women and senior women officers did take part in the assault of men.

I edited it out but someone reversed it. I am going to edit it out again as it's not in line with the goals of rationalwiki.

It's not particularly clear but equally I think you're being deliberately disingenuous. The article states that 25% of women and 1-2% of men have been sexually assaulted. It's obvious that the raw numbers are because there are many more men than women in the US military, and in the past the figures were even more unbalanced.[1] As for the claim "it's not in line with the goals of rationalwiki" - what does that mean? Try and argue rationally yourself not make vague insinuations. Annquin (talk) 11:16, 8 November 2016 (UTC) Even if the number of men and women are unbalanced, there's nothing in the article that suggests it's because of the patriarchy. Some men & women in power are sexually abusing other men & women. That's it. Incorrect reference is not in line with long term goals of this website. That's it. Rukmaniahuja (talk) 12:23, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

Another incorrect link? [ edit ]

I am unable to understand as to how this article: http://www.avoiceformen.com/feminism/patriarchy/ is relevant here. It's written by a guy who doesn't believes that Patriarchy actually exists. Anyhow, I don't see how it talks about "crisis of their loss of power" or about a woman doing something that generally only men do - as implied by the footnote, "OMG a woman gets do something a man does for once! We're all gonna die!". I believe that this article can be linked to this page - somewhere, in support of some statement talking about patriarchy, but right now, it's an incorrect link.— Unsigned, by: Rukmaniahuja / talk / contribs

Okay, so we have a section titled "Evidence", which talks about how women have to face tougher negotiations in comparison to men. This is an excellent example of unconscious bias against women, anyhow, it's not an "Evidence" when it comes to "Patriarchy". It's no where related to men holding power over women in family and/or politics. The whole section needs to go. — Unsigned, by: Rukmaniahuja / talk / contribs

We have 6 links.

3 of them are about matriarchy.

1 says that some people do not believe in it's existence

1 says that patriarchy is a "oversimplification"

This is a mess. We should delete this article. — Unsigned, by: rational1 / talk / contribs

Counterpoint: no. We probably ought not to. That it's not particularly well cited is a good reason to expand the citations. That it couldn't be well cited because no one talks about it would be a good reason(untrue). That it's unrelated to our mission would be a good reason(it's not). That it needs improvement is a reason to improve it. ikanreed You probably didn't deserve that 18:05, 29 November 2016 (UTC) Having just read some stuff on this topic. I would say that the concept of "Patriarchy" is an oversimplification, as it doesn't takes into account the historical struggle black men/women have had against white men/women. It groups all "men" into one category and all "women" into another. Do you really think all "men" and "women" were ever united? Even now, I see divide between poor men/women and rich men/women. I think we should take the approach of "Patriarchy" being only one out of many problems facing women. Major re-write needed. Rational1 (talk) 19:11, 29 November 2016 (UTC)

This article is bad [ edit ]

Patriarchy "skepticism" is common among "men's rights" advocates and other critics of feminism.[6] Their basic argument seems to be "Feminism has been massively successful so far, and women make up 50% of the population, so they must already have equal power." (Bold textOh, we're sorry, where's the first female POTUS? Oh, that's right; until 2012 only 8 women received more than 1,000 votes in a presidential primary and far fewer women have run than men.Bold text) To which, their counterargument would be: "Then, or somehow just a very small percent of women have voted, or women themselves have chosen men to represent them, even when a woman could have been elected." Anyhow, it's to be noted that even if a woman does gets elected as POTUS, that wouldn't mean we have got rid of Patriarchy, as the problem runs a lot deeper. Or even better, some generic, odd idea that women actually control society, as Bold textevidenced by the cries of their loss of power.Bold text There are some aspects of society in which men do have certain disadvantages, such as in the criminal justice system, or in certain historically female-dominated professions such as nursing; however the MRAs make the mistake of attributing this to the evils of feminism, rather than realizing that it is precisely because of patriarchal attitudes that such disadvantages exist.

This paragraph is so sexist it's not even funny. Cries from their loss of power is not good. (Not having a member of your race/sex is not proof of discrimination. Asian Americans don't have a president, nor Mexicans, nor Indians. Does this mean all of these groups are underprivileged?)Doublethink (talk) 03:04, 29 November 2018 (UTC)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘ "Patriarchy" is another of those doubletalking political slogans that masquerades as a description of the way things inevitably are. Nobody who talks about 'patriarchy' says that patriarchy is a good idea, despite its being a human universal. Men make violence their profession because men are the disposable sex: kill three quarters of the men and the remaining quarter pick up the slack and the band may soldier on; kill three quarters of the women and the band has suffered a catastrophe it is unlikely to recover from any time soon. So on the one hand, patriarchy is a "scientific construct" and a human universal. On the other hand, patriarchy is another slogan that just means 'men are pigs'. Most people who want to use the word mean the latter; but when challenged they have the 'scientific construct' to run back to. Smerdis of Tlön, wekʷōm teḱs. 05:24, 13 December 2018 (UTC)