Thinkaman said:







As you can see, Bayonetta has over double the top 64 placements as the next best character. DOUBLE.



She dwarfs even Brawl MK, who at his absolute peak was just shy of 27%.



If she was ahead by just a slim majority, calling this mob mentality might be justified. But as it stands, hate for her by crowds and social media is deserved--they aren't just hating a playstyle or players, there's a statistical basis to their complaints.



She is obviously choking out the rest of the roster. It's gotten so bad, that ZSS is performing worse than Melee Luigi.



Wait, that doesn't seem right. Hold on.













Sorry, mislabeled my data; fixed.



Anyway, what was I saying? I mean, take a look at Bayo's overall placings in tournaments, and you will see an alarming trend:As you can see, Bayonetta has overthe top 64 placements as the next best character.She dwarfs even Brawl MK, who at his absolute peak was just shy of 27%.If she was ahead by just a slim majority, calling this mob mentality might be justified. But as it stands, hate for her by crowds and social media is deserved--they aren't just hating a playstyle or players, there's a statistical basis to their complaints.She is obviously choking out the rest of the roster. It's gotten so bad, that ZSS is performing worse thanWait, that doesn't seem right. Hold on.Sorry, mislabeled my data; fixed.Anyway, what was I saying? Click to expand...

Red Ryu said: I’ve never understood the hate with her but the love for Fox in Melee. He honestly killed a lot of fun for me in that game to where I just played PM instead since I got more variety there.



Still what works for some people and taste will differ a lot. Click to expand...

Actually an excellent post.I want to take some time to address where the mob mentality comes from, from my perspective, since you and Thinkaman bring that issue up. I'll put it simply:Let's take a look at some different characters in Smash history and see how this concept applies:: Pretty much everything validates him as inarguably the best character in Melee, from theory to results. Even Thinkaman's post hows how absolutely dominant Fox is in the metagame, with double the success of the second-best character. But, not many people really hate him. It's arguable to say that people actually like him. So, what gives? Well, after 15 years of metagame development, knowledge in how to counterplay Fox has developed massively, to an almost-flowcharty point at times. For example, watch any Fox play against M2K's Marth on FD. Fox has flaws that can easily be counterplayed and taken advantage of. Mainly, he's combo food due to his combo weight, and his recovery can easily gimped at times. And, people know how to take advantage of these weaknesses. People know how to take advantage of his combo weight to deal massive damage to him on combos, and people know how to gimp his recovery. In short, people don't feel helpless fighting against Fox because they know how to fight him.: Jiggs' presence in the meta is basically carried by one player, and Puff's results are generally pretty weak compared to the top tiers for that reason. And yet, people absolutely hate his guts. Why? I would say this comes down to people not knowing how to fight Puff. How do you reliably handle his ledge camping? How do you reliably handle his tech traps? How do you reliably handle his BAir spacing? Not that counterplay hasn't been developed against Jiggs, but it's not nearly to the extent that Fox counterplay has been developed. For example, the traditional approach to Fox vs. Puff is to laser camp; but I've heard people questioning this approach to the MU. Basically, people don't know how to fight Jiggs, so people don't like her. Even Armada switched off Peach vs. Hungrybox because Peach counterplay against Puff is basically "Puff screws you; switch characters". And we all know how much Armada likes Puff.: I don't need to explain how much people hate Bayo. We all already know that. Now as for Bayo counterplay, what counterplay has been developed? The main thing counterplay developing against Bayonetta is SDI; but the reliability of that is questionable, especially when doing the correct SDI can get you killed. How does one counterplay Witch Time reliably? Grabs are a big one, but what about characters who have bad grabs/aren't grab-heavy? I know that old thought was that Bayo's neutral wasn't amazing, although I'm not sure how true that is. But, even if that's true, how do you take advantage of it? The point is that Bayo counterplay is, although developing, still unreliable; and I'm sure that's a big part of why people hate playing her. Because counterplay hasn't been developed so much for her, it's easy to feel helpless and frustrated playing against her.Now, I don't think the mob mentality is justified. I don't like playing against Bayo myself, but the sheer hatred for her is misplaced and unjustified in my opinion. I just wanted to explain a possible cause for that hatred in the first place.