In an effort to unearth the secrets of goal-scoring success and all things goal-scoring, we didn’t need to go around the world on a quest. We needed only to invite two of the greatest natural goal-scorers in two sports – the lacrosse J.T. and the hockey John Tavares – to a Mississauga, Ont., coffee shop. Here’s the transcript of an interview that was conducted in August of 2013:

BM: First goal you ever scored, do you remember it?

UNCLE JOHN: I was 5 or 6. I zigzagged through the whole Mimico team and scored. It’s funny, I don’t remember the ball actually going in the net. What I remember is what I felt after I scored: confident. I knew I could get through everyone and score.

YOUNG JOHN: I don't remember my first goal, but it’s weird, I remember not being able to score. I was a hockey camp, I was really young and I had six or seven breakaways in a scrimmage at the end and I didn't score on any of them. I didn't start off too well. My Mom took video of it. I remember watching it a few years ago, maybe that’s why I remember it.

BM: From an artistic point of view, what’s the best goal you’ve ever scored?

UNCLE JOHN: Hmmm, I’m like (young) John, I remember more of my errors than my goals. There was a goal I scored and my part of it, that was the easy part. It was the most artistic because of the whole play. It was in Brampton, Darris Kilgour won the faceoff and he passed it to Jim Veltman and Veltman backhanded a beautiful pass to me and I just shot it in the net. It was like boom-boom-boom. What I did wasn’t anything special, but the whole play, the flow, the simplicity of it, it was just beautiful. But I think you’re looking for something else, more individual. Okay, I came down my wrong side, which I did a lot. I would normally bring the ball across myself, cross my arms and dive through the air and just push it in on the far side where I was diving. But goalies would catch on to what I was doing and the goalie this time, it was Anthony Cosmo, he knew me really well, so I started doing it and then I realized he knew exactly what I was doing. So while I was in the air, diving across the crease, instead of shooting it into the net far side, I somehow wrapped the stick around behind my back and twisted my body while I was in the air and shot it back to the other side and it went it. I don’t think there’s any video of it, it was Buffalo vs. Toronto (NLL), I would like to see that one again.

YOUNG JOHN: I can’t believe you didn’t say the one that was on the ESPN Top 10.

UNCLE JOHN: Oh, yeah, that was a good one, too (grins).

YOUNG JOHN: Look it up on YouTube. It was on ESPN. Buffalo against Portland. He went through three guys and made like eight fakes. It was an incredible goal, one of the best I’ve ever seen. A few stand out for me. There was a minor hockey game, they were checking me all game. I got hauled down on a breakaway. Laying on my back, I somehow shot it, the goalie was down and I just sort of chipped it over him. The other one I think of, it was my first goal in the OHL, against Kingston. We were shorthanded, I’m not sure why a 15-year-old was on the ice killing a penalty in his first OHL game (laughs). I just let a snap shot go from top of circle, one of the best shots I’ve ever taken. It went far side, top corner. I don’t normally shoot it like that.

BM: What about your most important goal?

UNCLE JOHN: It was 1992 (Tavares’ rookie season in the NLL), Buffalo versus Philly at the Spectrum, a great game, sudden-death overtime, sold out crowd. The atmosphere was unreal. It was a broken play. Philly’s goaltenders were Dallas Eliuk and Dwight Maetche, who I played with in Vancouver. Dwight was a great goalie, I really respected him, and I never say a goalie is good, but he was good. In practice, he would never let me score. I hated that. So Dwight got into the game and I didn’t want to shoot on him, he was in my head a bit. So there’s a broken play and the ball comes to me in overtime and I decide I’m going to take backhand (over the shoulder) and I don’t take a lot of backhands. I see the top corner open and I take the shot. It went straight into the ground and between Dwight’s legs and in (laughs). Nice shot. But it won the NLL championship.

YOUNG JOHN: For me, it’s probably the (2009) world junior championships. It was New Year’s Eve, we’re down 3-0 like that against the Americans. I scored three goals, but it was the second goal that was the big one. I drove wide, shot it into the top corner. That goal really turned things around for us in that game and the tournament. But, I would have to say shootout goal I scored against Russia in the semi-finals that year was really important, too. We all remember the (miraculous Jordan Eberle tying goal) but I knew I couldn’t miss on the shootout. What I remember is I didn't hear anything, nothing, when I skated in on the goalie, and the place was going crazy, but that’s the most focused I've ever been on a shot. I almost lost the puck but the goalie went down and I scored.

BM: This may be repetitive, because you’ve talked about a lot of goals already, but what about, for any reason you see fit, the most memorable goal you’ve scored?

UNCLE JOHN: That would be the game-winning goal in the Founders Cup Junior B championship (see Tavares story preceding the interview) or the 1992 NLL OT GWG against Philly.

YOUNG JOHN: For me, that would be when I broke Wayne Gretzky’s record for most goals by a 16 year old in the OHL. I tried to pass the puck to Cal Clutterbuck on the back door, Logan Couture went down to block it, the puck went off his skate and back to me. The goalie anticipated the pass, went down and I shot it low blocker. I didn't even celebrate the goal, I just went and got the puck. The guys gave me a hard time about that one.

BM: How about this one, the most vindictive, suck-on-that, in-your-face goal you scored?

UNCLE JOHN: I don't have one like that.

YOUNG JOHN: Oh, I do. There were tons in minor hockey. Kids would follow me and slash me and stick me and I’d score and be so pumped....

UNCLE JOHN: Yeah, I probably have a few like that but not one I remember any more than another. I’d be in Peterborough or Boston and I’m tired and some guy is yipping at me from the bench, saying, ‘You’re too old,’ and I’m thinking, ‘You don’t really want to wake me up.’ I’m an old man now (laughs). So I’d take the ball, I’d have a look up at the 30-second shot clock and I’d just shoot it in and look over the bench, like, ‘Really?’

YOUNG JOHN: I know when I played in minor atom, a guy was shadowing me, being really dirty with me. My Dad thought it was coming from their coach and he would tell me to protect myself. They would butt end or stick me in the nuts. I scored a hat trick in this game. The guy who was sticking me, after I scored, he faked like he was going to slash me in the head. He got a penalty, I didn’t even move, never flinched. I scored again and I said, ‘What are you going to do now, fake slash me in the head again?’

BM: How about a goal someone else scored that you wish you scored? Do you have any goal envy?

UNCLE JOHN: I played some minor lacrosse with Brendan Shanahan and he’d say to me, ‘Show me a fancy goal.’ I didn’t score fancy goals, I’d just try to do things the right way. Gary Gait, now there’s a guy who scored some fancy goals. He’d rip a backhand from the top of the power play into the top corner. I wouldn’t even have the guts to try that, especially on the power play. So I’d like to score a Gary Gait backhand from the top of the power play.

YOUNG JOHN: For me, it would be a goal with great meaning. Maybe because it’s coming up, the Olympics, I would have loved to score Sid’s goal in Vancouver, in Canada, to win Olympic gold for Canada. Either that or Brett Hull scoring a game-winning goal in overtime to win the Stanley Cup. Those are the kinds of goals I dream of scoring.

UNCLE JOHN: I’ve been trying to convince (young) John to pick up the puck on the blade of his stick and whip it around and bounce it in, like Robbie Schremp did. As a fan, that’s what I’d like to see John do on a shootout shot. What’s the percentage on scoring on a penalty shot or shootout, maybe 20 per cent? I’m surprised you don’t do that.

YOUNG JOHN: I do it in practice.

UNCLE JOHN: Do you score?

YOUNG JOHN: Yeah, sometimes.

UNCLE JOHN: See, it’s easy. I’ve seen high school kids do it. Easy. Do it.

YOUNG JOHN: Now you sound like my Dad. My Dad can shoot right or left in hockey, both ways, and he always says to me, ‘Shoot both ways, it’s easy.’

BM: Most goals you’ve ever scored in one game?

UNCLE JOHN: I think in junior, I once had 12 or 13. In pro, I think the most I ever had was seven. My manager in Buffalo told me that if I get a few goals early and the game is in hand, I really back off and don’t try to score as much. He’s probably right.

YOUNG JOHN: Once in lacrosse, I had 13 or 14 points but I don’t recall how many goals. In minor hockey, I’ve scored six or seven goals. That would be the most for me in hockey.

BM: Outside of your contract that pays you, did anyone, a family member, ever give you money to score a goal?

UNCLE JOHN: Nope, never any money, maybe a shot in the head if I didn’t score (laughs).

YOUNG JOHN: My Dad would just say, ‘If you don't get a hat trick, don't come home.’ After the game, we'd pull up and he'd open the door a crack and peek out and say, ‘How many did you get? Okay, c'mon in then.’

BM: Let’s talk celebrations, do you guys have a go-to celebration?

UNCLE JOHN: I don’t celebrate goals too much. More in practice. I joke around that I’m going to jump up on the glass and really go crazy and then I score and I just raise my arms. Honestly, excessive celebrating just stirs up the other team. Why would you want to do that?

YOUNG JOHN: I go through stages. I don’t mind celebrating a goal, nothing too crazy though. I’ll do the same thing for 20 or 30 games and then switch it up a bit.

BM: I went through a lot of (Young John’s) goals on video and you’re right, you stick with the basics but there’s little variations that you throw in there. You’re mostly a two arms straight in the air guy, but sometimes you’ll throw in a little something extra—

YOUNG JOHN: Fist pump, usually. I don’t mind a little fist pump.

BM: Yes, sometimes it’s down low from your mid-section, but sometimes you like to go upstairs and give the overhead, overhand fist pump to the crowd with a look into the stands. But you’re right, it’s all relatively subdued.

YOUNG JOHN: My Dad always told me, ‘Don't ever celebrate, it's like saying the F word.’ So when I was young, I’d put my hands in the air and then take them down. Actually, there probably was one for me, the World Juniors in Ottawa against the Americans. When they went up on us 3-0, one of their players when by our bench and taunted us, with his hand to his ear. When I scored my second goal to make it 3-2, I did it back to them. I probably would like to take that one back but it was a really emotional game. I try not to be too obnoxious.

BM: I ask this question and I already know the answer, but is it easier to score goals in hockey or lacrosse? The answer, in theory, should be hockey, because the net in lacrosse is a lot smaller and the goalie equipment is much bigger, but it’s obvious by the number of goals scored in a game, it’s lacrosse.

YOUNG JOHN: In lacrosse, you have more control where the ball is going. It’s in your stick, you’re not on skates.

UNCLE JOHN: In hockey, they have only one angle, up...in lacrosse you can move the ball from high to low and shoot up or down. By the way (to Young John), you should use your backhand more than you do.

YOUNG JOHN: He always tells me that. It’s the only move he ever had in the basement when he would come over to play hockey with me. Forehand, backhand, deke, same move every time.

BM: Where’s it more dangerous, in front of the net in hockey or lacrosse?

YOUNG JOHN: Lacrosse.

UNCLE JOHN: Really?

YOUNG JOHN: For sure, you can legally crosscheck in lacrosse. Guys would crosscheck you in the hips. And in lacrosse, you have to go through the middle and that’s where you can see the kids who are afraid. You have to have balls to cut through the middle in lacrosse because you’re taking your life into your hands.

UNCLE JOHN: There's crosschecking off the ball in lacrosse, too. If your team has the ball, the other team can start crosschecking anyone who doesn’t have the ball. That's intense

YOUNG JOHN: I remember playing against Six Nations. Every defender had a wooden stick, when you went to set a pick, you know you were going to get destroyed. I would wear all sorts of extra equipment. I was a lot younger, I was 20 to 30 pounds lighter than them and they’d just give it to you even if you didn’t have the ball.

UNCLE JOHN: I like a tough game, always have, but I don't know much (physical) intimidation should exist in sport. I've got a kid playing now. Do I really want him playing lacrosse and hockey and taking shots to the head with barely any penalties?

BM: I’m sure you guys have heard the term “natural” or “pure” goal scorer, which on one level is counter-intuitive because I think you guys would be the first to admit it takes a lot of hard work and practice to score, but there’s no denying some guys simply have the knack, and that would be both of you.

UNCLE JOHN: Positioning is everything for me in scoring goals. I think I put myself in a good spot to score. My skill level maybe isn’t the highest in the game, but my sense of where to be, I just try to put people to sleep and then when they least expect it…

BM: Brett Hull used to subscribe to that theory. He would say he liked to be invisible until he got the puck on his stick in the right spot on the ice.

UNCLE JOHN: In lacrosse, I would try to set up the guy playing defence against me. I would show him routine, same thing over and over again, do routine, do routine and let him think he was getting the better of me for a while and when I could see he was relaxing, getting comfortable with my routine, that’s when I’d break the routine, do something different and beat him for a goal…I asked (Young John) once whether he considers himself a playmaker or a goal scorer. He said he’s a goal-scorer, which surprised me a bit. I kind of think of myself as a playmaker first although when the game is on the line, I guess I like to be a goal scorer.

YOUNG JOHN: When you talk about a natural or pure goal scorer, I think you’re talking about some guys who don’t look like they have the greatest skill set – they don’t have a real hard shot or they’re not fast or big – but when you talk about a guy like my line-mate, Matt Moulson, or someone like Luc Robitaille, they have great scoring instincts and an ability to put the puck in the net. That’s my definition of a natural goal scorer. Some guys have the skill set to be great goal scorers, some guys just have the knack, some have both and those are the really great ones.

BM: That precise moment when the puck or ball goes into the net, how does that feel? Can you put it into words?

UNCLE JOHN: For me, it's the exact same feeling every time. It’s satisfaction and gratification that all the hard work has paid off. Now when I score, I’m so happy inside. When you’re older, you need that goal, really need it. At age 28, if you go two games without scoring a goal, it’s called a slump. When you’re 40, you go two games without a goal and you’re washed up. I need those goals now for confidence. It makes me believe I still belong.

YOUNG JOHN: I can't describe it. As a kid, I knew the objective is to score, and I felt if I could do that better than anyone else, it would help my team win and help me become the best at it. There’s no emotion like it, nothing like scoring a goal. I’m driven by it.

BM: Goal scorers get into the zone, how do you know when you’re “in the zone?”

UNCLE JOHN: In lacrosse, your stick has to be on. In lacrosse, the stick is everything. If your stick feels great, it seems like the game is so easy. Then things just seem to happen so naturally.

YOUNG JOHN: Those moments are hard to explain because it’s hard to stay at that level for any length of time and when you are “in the zone” you often can’t figure out why you are. Usually, it means something good happened early. I remember a Belleville-Oshawa game, I wasn't feeling well at all, I slept only two hours the night before and yet I scored a power-play goal, an even-strength goal, two shorthanded goals, had an assist and scored on the shootout to win the game. I didn’t think I was going to play well in that game because I didn’t feel good. But you start, things go your way and it’s as if some unseen thing is taking your skill to the next level. Why? No idea, none.

BM: What about the flip side, the dreaded slump, when you can’t do anything right?

UNCLE JOHN: Superstitions get made on those times. You start thinking, ‘What did I do when I was playing really well?’ If I’m struggling, I just ask myself, ‘Am I getting chances?’ If not, I’ll go do something else, make a defensive play, help the team in some way. You can't let it bring you down.

YOUNG JOHN: I always grew up scoring goals and I obviously don’t like it when I’m not. So like a lot of guys, if I’m not scoring, I try to do other things. My first year in the NHL, I wasn't getting many chances, was not scoring. It's tough mentally, it can play with your mind. I learned a lot from that experience. I went 15 or 16 games without scoring, longest I've ever gone. It was good for me, but I didn't like it.

BM: You mentioned superstitions, you have any?

UNCLE JOHN: I like a pre-game nap. Is that a superstition? I don’t think so. I don’t have any.

YOUNG JOHN: Not anything wacky. My superstitions are based more on preparation, there’s no excuse to not play well, so it’s more routine than superstition, I think. The one superstition I guess I have is that in junior, at the old Civic Auditorium, there’s small room, a medical room, and all the players would put their stick on the wall outside that room. But I would put my stick inside (trainer) Brian Boyes’ medical room. I still do it now, always put my stick in the medical room. But that’s about it.

UNCLE JOHN: No intimacy the night before...for most of my career anyway. (laughs).

BM: Okay, guys, most important question: What’s the secret to goal-scoring success?

YOUNG JOHN: I just feel like I want it more than anyone else. Whether it's lacrosse or hockey, I always wanted to score. I feel like I wanted it more than anyone else. I still feel that way. I know everyone likes to score but I just have this feeling that there's no one in the world who wants to score a goal more than me.

UNCLE JOHN: I never went into a game saying I want to score. I just wanted to make the right play. That’s how I got my opportunities to score. If you make the right play, you’re going to get scoring chances for not just you but your team. Is there an actual secret to it? I don’t know, but I can tell you I don’t respect any goalies. I refuse to show them any respect. I think they’re no good, because if you say a goalie is good, then you're giving that goalie an edge over you. I won't do that. It's a mindset, I guess. I hated stats, too. I hated milestones, you know, 500th goal or whatever. I hate that stuff, I didn’t like the attention being on me.

YOUNG JOHN: I’m not a big stats guy either. I won’t look at them, I won’t look at league leaders. I just want to focus on playing well, that’s where I’m focused.

BM: Can you guys imagine what it’ll be like when you’re finished playing and there’s no more goals to be scored?

UNCLE JOHN: I’m okay with not scoring any more goals. If I don’t play, if I retire, I’ll be fine. I’ve scored my share. I was golfing with (ex-Buffalo Sabre) Rene Robert and someone asked him if he still plays any hockey. He said, ‘What kind of question is that? I’m retired.’ I’ll be the same way, you won’t see me playing masters lacrosse, I can tell you that. You, on the other hands (to Young John), you’ve got lots more goals to score. Lots.

YOUNG JOHN: I'd like to play as long as he has (points to Uncle John).

UNCLE JOHN: (Young John) is a great player, but, and I tell him this all the time, he’s at his best when he just puts his nose down and just goes to the net, when he doesn’t get too cute and just goes for it. So do what I tell you (laughs).

Reprinted with permission of Harper Collins Canada.