Bernie Sanders: On pushing Hillary Clinton to take a stand

Susan Page | USA TODAY

Show Caption Hide Caption Capital Download: Sen. Bernie Sanders In this edition of Capital Download, Sen. Bernie Sanders talks with Susan Page about his bid for the presidency.

WASHINGTON — No one was more surprised than Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders by his strong showing in a Wisconsin Democratic straw poll over the weekend: 41%, just 8 percentage points behind front-runner Hillary Clinton.

The non-binding Wisconsin results and the overflow crowds Sanders has been drawing in Iowa and New Hampshire are signs that there is "a real hunger" for a substantive discussion about Americans' economic anxieties, he says — and pressure on Clinton to declare where she stands.

To be sure, the former secretary of State remains the prohibitive favorite for the Democratic presidential nomination. But Sanders, a self-described Democratic socialist and the longest-serving independent in congressional history, is the competitor gaining the most traction against her, at least for now.

In an interview Tuesday with Capital Download, he sought to use that standing to press a populist agenda and push for changes in the primary debates. The Democratic National Committee has announced six sanctioned debates with rules that bar a candidate who participates in any non-sanctioned ones.

"That position took place without consulting my campaign at all," Sanders said in a worn Capitol Hill townhouse, wedged between a Mexican restaurant and a nail salon, that his campaign recently rented to use in Washington. (The campaign headquarters is in Burlington, Vt.) "I think what we should do is get all of the candidates together and sit down and say, 'OK, what is a rational and fair approach?' "

He proposes more debates — including in Republican states — that would be open for Democratic and Republican candidates to participate in together.

Clinton seems unlikely to agree to that idea, but Sanders may have more success in pushing her to back issues that have animated his supporters and fueled activism by the so-called Elizabeth Warren wing of the Democrat Party. Sanders has inherited some of the supporters who unsuccessfully urged the Massachusetts senator to run for president.

"I have been ... leading the opposition to TPP," the Trans-Pacific Partnership trade deal being negotiated, he said. "Hillary Clinton has had nothing to say. She hasn't given us an opinion. And it's hard for me to understand how Secretary Clinton or any candidate can avoid speaking out on what is a huge economic issue. You can be for it; you can be against it, but you've got to have an opinion."

He went on: "I led the effort against the Keystone Pipeline. I don't know that Secretary Clinton has spoken out on this issue. ... I led the effort when I was in the House against the deregulation of Wall Street. ... Where is Secretary Clinton on the issue of breaking up the large financial institutions?"

He declined to give Clinton any advice as she prepares formally to announce her campaign at a New York rally Saturday. "Let me tell you a top secret here: I am not on Hillary Clinton's payroll," he said, adding, "I respect Hillary Clinton. I've known her for 25 years. I shouldn't say this: I like Hillary Clinton."

Sanders, a 73-year-old with a halo of white hair and thick Brooklyn accent, seems to be as amazed as anyone by the reception his unlikely campaign is getting. He indicated he didn't realize Wisconsin Democrats were holding a straw poll until there were news reports about how well he had done in it.

He insists it is possible for him to win the nomination: first, by raising $40 million to $50 million, enough to do well in the opening Iowa caucuses and win the New Hampshire primary. (He notes, "We're just the Connecticut River apart, in Vermont.")

"Then the hope is, if we do well in those two states, and then, you know, become de facto a credible candidate, that a lot more money comes in," he says. "The nature of the beast is that you've got to do well in Iowa or New Hampshire; that's just the truth."