Former astronaut Steve Lindsey‘s company, Sierra Nevada Corporation, has big plans in space. | Roberto Gonzalez/Getty Images Dream Chaser space plane looks beyond International Space Station Sierra Nevada Corporation is also eyeing non-NASA missions

The main mission of Sierra Nevada Corporation’s Dream Chaser space plane will be to supply up to seven astronauts and cargo to the International Space Station beginning in 2020 under a contract with NASA.

But the company has bigger plans for its spacecraft designed to launch atop a rocket and land on any runway that can accommodate a Boeing 737 jetliner, says Steve Lindsey, the company's vice president of space exploration systems — regardless of what happens to the space station.


“We think the Dream Chaser spacecraft is the perfect vehicle whether it’s to the ISS in 2025 or something that replaces it," says Lindsey, who logged more than 1,500 hours in space as a NASA astronaut. "We can use our vehicle to do standalone science in 2025 and beyond. We’re well placed that no matter what the future looks like in low earth orbit. We’re going to be a big part of it."

As NASA Administrator Jim Bridenstine speaks with companies about privatizing the station, Lindsey said he expects the Dream Chaser to “be a big part of resupply and science in the future, even if it becomes commercialized."

He also spoke about international interest in the Dream Chaser and support for the program on Capitol Hill.

This transcript has been edited for length and clarity.

What does it mean for the Dream Chaser if the government stops using the station sooner than planned?

It’s true that main work we’re doing right now is for the ISS program...The Dream Chaser provides supplies up and down to the space station. However, from the outset, we’ve always designed the Dream Chaser [as] a space utility vehicle. It can do lots of different things.

We can do more than just go to the station and return. Specifically, our Dream Chaser cargo system can also do free-flight operations….We can do free flight science missions, we can do other mission in low earth orbit that don’t involve the space station.

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In fact, we’re working with the United Nations right now on a potential mission to fly payloads of multiple countries on a mission that doesn’t go anywhere near ISS.

NASA is talking with companies about privatizing the ISS. How does Dream Chaser fit into that?

NASA wants to turn its attention to exploration in 2025 and start building the [Lunar Orbiting Platform] gateway as early as 2022...Even if they’re focusing on the gateway and doing lunar missions and exploration of other planets, we are still going to need a capability to do research in low earth orbit.

It’s not just NASA. There’s also [the European Space Agency, the Japanese Aerospace Exploration Agency, the Canadian Space Agency.] There’s always going to be a need to do research in low earth orbit along with science in lunar orbit for the gateway...NASA wants to be able to do both, but right now because of space station costs, they’re spending a good portion of their budget on that. They need to shift their budget from low earth orbit to lunar orbit and would like to commercialize low earth orbit.

We wouldn’t be in this business if we didn’t want to commercialize low earth orbit. That’s our number one goal...We think the Dream Chaser spacecraft is the perfect vehicle whether it’s to the ISS in 2025 or something that replaces it. We can use our vehicle to do standalone science in 2025 and beyond.

Any of those options are good for us. We’re well placed that no matter what the future looks like in low earth orbit, we’re going to be a big part of it.

Do you expect industry to use your platform to resupply the station even if it is commercially operated?

We’re designed to go to the space station and will have gone many times by the time this happens...regardless we’ll be a big part of resupply and science in the future, even if it becomes commercialized.

Have you already talked with international space agencies about potentially using the Dream Chaser?

Oh yes, we actually have agreements with JAXA, ESA, CSA. We’ve talked to many other countries...It’s not just a wish list, they are actively involved.

The Dream Chaser space plane will be able to supply up to seven astronauts and cargo to the International Space Station beginning in 2020 under a contract with NASA. | Chritof Stache/AFP/Getty Images

You talked about being able to do science in low earth orbit. Would that require a crewed mission?

You could certainly do either one...We’re doing an uncrewed mission for the United Nations.

If you really look at the International Space Station, it’s international, but it’s a small subset of nations...there are a lot of other nations that have never been to space. We’ve been talking about, for example, taking some nations that have been to space, partnering them with countries who have never had the opportunity, allowing them to develop their own science experiment, get sponsored and then fly on board our vehicle. That’s an uncrewed mission, but you could also do crewed.

What is the status of this planned mission involving the United Nations?

We put out a call for interest at the end of last year and got a tremendous response -- 150 responses from 65 different countries. We’ve developed a payload user guide working with UN. We’re going through legal things right now, liabilities. The next step will be to put out here’s what we’re targeting, tell us what your specific ideas are.

What message do you bring when you go to Capitol Hill?

We enjoy pretty broad bipartisan support bipartisan. The space program in general does, especially NASA programs, they always have. Pretty much everybody we talk to in Congress or staffers when we show them the design, they get pretty excited about it...I’ve yet to run into anybody who doesn’t support more commercialization of space, which is exactly what we’re trying to do.

Will Sierra Nevada Corporation work on a crewed version of the Dream Chaser, even if that’s not what NASA initially wants?

We’ve actually never stopped working on crewed version….The current one we’re working on is an uncrewed cargo platform….but we still have an active open contract with NASA for the crewed version.

The flight test we did in November satisfied objectives for cargo resupply and a [crewed version.]...There’s 85 percent in common with the crewed version, the size, shape, outer mold line, that’s all exactly the same...What we’re doing is maintaining traceability between cargo version and crewed version and staying plugged in with NASA on their crew program so we’re making sure we understand what we would need to do to go back to crewed for NASA.

There are other people we’re engaged with who really want a crewed version as well. I think as soon as we start flying the cargo version, everyone will want a crewed version. We’ll be ready to do that

What benefit does a crewed version offer?

You put humans on board, you can do a lot more with science and different things. The attractiveness of a lifting body spacecraft like we have, your re-entry environment is a lot less harsh than a capsule. A capsule comes down at four or five Gs...some of them land on land, most of them land on water, and takes you days to get your critical science back, but it starts degrading as soon as you get into the gravity field.

We offer ability to enter gently...and because we have no toxic propellants, as soon as we land, you can go right up to vehicle and start pulling cargo.

We can land at any runway where a 737 can land, which opens up whole world to us...In a nation where you don’t have a space program, it would cost billions of dollars to build a space program, but we can offer a turnkey space program and landing in the country for the cost of a satellite launch.

Countries want their own astronauts to fly in space, it’s a big deal for them and a big deal for us.

How does your background as an astronaut impact your perspective working on the program?

I view it differently than most of the people working on the program. On our program we have a very diverse team, we brought in a lot of people from NASA, industry, even non-aerospace...which makes us strong because everybody comes at this from a different perspective.

From my perspective… I understand operations pretty intimately. How to do a space mission, how to live and work in space. Since I had the opportunity to go to the space station three times doing assembly, I also have a working knowledge of the space station.

For me, being an astronaut, in particular on [Commercial Resupply Contract 2], we’re carrying cargo and science payloads. Just understanding how do you get berthed at the space station, how do the robotics work, how do you load and unload the vehicle, what’s the best way to do that in zero gravity. What I can bring to the table -- everybody else working on it has never actually lived and worked in micro-gravity. There are things that seem hard to do on the ground are actually really easy to do in space and in some cases, vice versa...I can apply that kind of experience to the design so we don’t focus on the wrong things.

What was your role in assembling the space station?

I flew five Space Shuttle missions, the last three all went to space station. The first was very early assembly where my crew and I installed the airlock and did the first space walk out of that air walk. My next flight was after the Columbia accident, they added two return to flight test missions. I commanded the second. We went up to station...[and] brought a third crew member back up as well as a whole bunch of logistics supplies. We did several space walks from the space station and tested all the thermal protection system repair that we needed for shuttle. On my last flight, I commanded the final flight of Discovery. We went to station...and completed assembly.

Given your background, what are your thoughts on commercializing the space station?

We’ve always been interested in exploration, so that’s really important to me. It’s also important to me that we spent a lot of time and money on the station and we want to get as much utilization out of it as possible. I think they’re doing that. They set specific life science goals to be done by 2025 to get all information we need to fly astronauts interplanetary safely.

One of the greatest legacies will be the international partnership aspect of it...Before I was at NASA, I was a fighter pilot in the Air Force...Back in the day our sworn enemies were the Soviet Union. If you’d told me 10 years from then you’d be flying in space with Russians, I’d have told you you was crazy. All of that has been a great thing for the world. It’s hard to fight other countries when you’re cooperating with them in space

I also recognize that we have a certain amount of resources...We can’t afford to continue to operate ISS in the future if we want to explore at the same time. If you go back to last decade, Constellation [a crewed spaceflight program to return to the moon] was canceled by the Obama administration because we couldn’t afford the International Space Station and that at the same time. Something had to go. ISS was just being built, so Constellation got delayed...They’re going to run into the same problem if you don’t do something.

We still need to do science and things in low earth orbit. You’re not going to want to send a crew out to the lunar environment for something that could be done in LEO, so you need both. But the question is how do you do both affordably? The way you do both affordably is by commercializing low earth orbit so NASA and others can balance resources.

