READER COMMENTS ON

"Easily Hacked Diebold Systems to Decide 'Toss-Up' U.S. Senate Special Election in MA on Tuesday"

(84 Responses so far...)





COMMENT #1 [Permalink]

... Mitch Trachtenberg said on 1/15/2010 @ 1:18 pm PT...





Chain of custody being what it is, this probably won't help, but I'd be happy to count in MA exactly as I've counted in Humboldt. I'll go there at my own expense and they don't need to pay a thing.

COMMENT #2 [Permalink]

... Meg said on 1/15/2010 @ 1:29 pm PT...





Good Lord, how could they have let this happen? Why was this over looked till now? Thank you for writing about it!

COMMENT #3 [Permalink]

... John R Brakey said on 1/15/2010 @ 2:49 pm PT...





On the Scott Brown US Senate web site - Front page - VOTE ABSENTEE ... "Absentee voting” also called in the west "Vote by mail", is a disease moving from West to East. I too am concerned about the election next Tuesday. Excerpt from LA TIMES - June 25, 2006 article on the GOP Voter Vault system

The GOP knows you don't like anchovies

Unpopular Republicans still own the art of politicking.

By Peter Wallsten and Tom Hamburger FOUR DAYS before this month's special election in San Diego County to replace imprisoned former Rep. Randy "Duke" Cunningham, Republican strategists back in Washington were worried. In addition to voter discontent with GOP leadership and the looming shadow of scandal dominating the campaign, Democrats appeared to enjoy yet another advantage: More absentee ballots were being submitted by Democratic voters than by Republicans. The advantage did not last long. Jolted to life, the GOP machinery revved into high gear as activists poured into the district. They scoured the party's computer database for sympathetic voters who had requested absentee ballots but had not yet submitted them, knocked on their doors and called them on the phone. Suddenly, thousands of additional votes had been secured, and by election day, the GOP had turned around a costly deficit — with 10,000 more Republicans than Democrats voting absentee. That final flurry of absentees, along with other forms of voter targeting, contributed to a surprising GOP victory that cut through the heart of the Democrats' broader 2006 election strategy. Rather than using Cunningham's criminal role in a lobbying scandal to turn the special election into a preview of how they could translate a "culture of corruption" into a national revolution in November, Democrats watched in disappointment as a Republican lobbyist won the race — and as the Democratic candidate performed barely better than presidential nominee John Kerry had in that same district two years before. Rest of Article [ed note: Format edited. —99]

COMMENT #4 [Permalink]

... Brad Friedman said on 1/15/2010 @ 2:53 pm PT...





For those who don't know, Mitch Trachtenberg (at Comment #1 above) is the guy who developed the system which discovered that Humboldt County's Diebold system had dropped hundreds of ballots without notice to anybody. (As I mention in my full article over at Gouverneur Times). Folks in MA would be wise to get Mitch's butt out there ASAP, frankly. No matter which party they happen to support!

COMMENT #5 [Permalink]

... Victoria Parks said on 1/15/2010 @ 3:04 pm PT...





Its those convenient "too close to call" elections that always seem to get decided by the machines. We are the decider. Time for serious election justice activists in MA to find your problem precincts then have them drawn from a hat before everyone, demand an immediate 10% hand count audit (get your hand-counters and volunteers together!)of the entire state. LHS has a criminal record for God's sake. Why are they anywhere near our ballots?????? This company truly represents the shady underbelly of the election hardware/software business.

COMMENT #6 [Permalink]

... karlof1 said on 1/15/2010 @ 3:45 pm PT...





Regarding vote by mail. Here in Oregon, there are no absentee ballots, so there's no database to access to find out who requested one and hadn't yet voted, which brings up this question: How is it possible for it to be discovered if someone had requested an absentee ballot but not yet voted since those votes haven't been counted yet (aren't ballots only supposed to be counted AFTER the polls close)?!?!?!

COMMENT #7 [Permalink]

... judesedit said on 1/15/2010 @ 3:47 pm PT...





Is it possible for an accompanied honest, knowledgable hacker to track the computer readings realtime to correct any funny business prior to decision making time? Or to note odd calculations for investigation asap? Also, are there no watchdogs at the precincts? Would exit polls help in disputing the outcome if it appears funny when compared to voter registrations? Let the cameras roll! Personally, I think we should play their game better then they do.

COMMENT #8 [Permalink]

... Jim March said on 1/15/2010 @ 3:52 pm PT...





Bad situation for sure. In the Pima County public records fight John Brakey and I were involved in, Pima didn't want to give up the raw data files behind a wonky-looking election. So as a key argument against giving up the data, they outright admitted that the security behind the system stank. Yeah, I'm quite serious. They admitted in open court that the Diebold system was so "fatally flawed" that it was too easy for outside tampering to allow any "outsiders" additional knowledge about how the process worked. Thus turning the entire concept of a democratic process on it's head. In the end the judge didn't buy it, and John was able to dig through the internals of the data files and spot patterns of weirdness. In the latest go-round, we're now trying to get to the original poll tapes in that 2006 election with a $2bil (yeah, that *billion*) bond measure in play. The patterns of strangeness found by John indicate that once party observers left for the night, numerous precinct's worth of electronic uploads were re-done for reasons we still don't understand. That's why we want to go back to the original polltapes, to see if the signed output sheets match the numbers of voters at each precinct and the official final tallies. We suspect they won't. The good news is, we now have a lot of experience in cross-referencing this stuff - the electronic records against the paper in particular. We think that needs doing out in Mass... Jim March

COMMENT #9 [Permalink]

... Big Dan said on 1/15/2010 @ 5:11 pm PT...





How did it go from an easy Democrat win to a toss up, and is that even true?

COMMENT #10 [Permalink]

... Stephen Bonser said on 1/15/2010 @ 5:38 pm PT...





Should concerned citizens start putting pressure on NY Secretary of State Lorraine A. Cortés-Vázquez to ensure that the balloting and vote counting is done properly? Obviously the Secretaries of State for Ohio and Florida were very effective in helping ensure the vote was NOT fair in those states.

COMMENT #11 [Permalink]

... Herschel Krustovski said on 1/15/2010 @ 5:42 pm PT...





Bradblog, I really admired the work you did early on, and then major kudos for the work with Sibel Edmonds, but the fawning over obama has me saying "feh" to any of your future efforts. Why? NY23. real quiet there pal. Bev gets my money.

COMMENT #12 [Permalink]

... karenfromillinois said on 1/15/2010 @ 5:58 pm PT...





from brads fine article, "The petition filing must occur within 6 days of the election, requires at least 10 signatures per ward and "The petitioner must file a separate recount petition in each ward of a city or precinct of a town in which he desires a recount." if i was a dem in mass i would be trying to get those signatures lined up NOW

COMMENT #13 [Permalink]

... Bickle said on 1/15/2010 @ 6:01 pm PT...





Sounds like a pre-emptive lawsuit needs to be filed to stop this person, his company or his agents from coming anywhere near any election again. Sounds like there's definately criminal charges in there already.

COMMENT #14 [Permalink]

... jimbo92107 said on 1/15/2010 @ 6:33 pm PT...





Consider the election stolen.

COMMENT #15 [Permalink]

... Brad Friedman said on 1/15/2010 @ 6:34 pm PT...





Hershel K. said (for some reason): fawning over obama has me saying "feh" to any of your future efforts. Why? NY23. real quiet there pal. Bev gets my money. First, "pal", I don't care who you give your money to. Giving some to Bev sounds like a good idea to me. Second, "pal", "fawning over Obama"? Don't come by here much? Finally, "pal", in regard NY-23, who the hell do you think wrote two of Gouverneur Times key feature articles on NY-23?! Not to mention my coverage here. Get a clue, "pal". I'll accept your apology in advance since you don't seem the type to actually offer one after you've made a jackass of yourself. Pal.

COMMENT #16 [Permalink]

... Brook said on 1/15/2010 @ 7:46 pm PT...





The Al Franken election convinced me many close elections are totally rigged. You had absentee ballots just showing up mysteriously --- some reportedly found in abandoned cars. A man who has literally failed at everything he's ever done is now sitting in my Senate making laws that affect my future. I can't take it anymore. Vermont is fielding several candidates in state elections that are pushing to seceed, and other states are going to follow. Yes, state govs can be corrupt, but nothing like what has happened in DC --- a government that actively works against the will of the people like the unelected EU High Commission. Our federal government is bankrupt fiscally and morally and our democracy is in tatters with ACORN and Diebold running amock to win elections by any means necessary. We're going to have to drain DC of a lot of it's power and give it back to the states or they're going to force the issue by leaving this corrupt system.

COMMENT #17 [Permalink]

... Jon in Iowa said on 1/15/2010 @ 8:51 pm PT...





Good comedy, Brook. Minnesota has one of the most transparent and secure electoral systems in the country. Sure, there's more they could do, but the Franken election is about as successful a one as you're likely to find in this country. If you want a man who's failed at everything he's done getting into office through a failed election, look eight years earlier and a little higher on the official food chain. Incidentally, in our arrangement, failed elections are as much the states' fault as the federal government's. Thus, I'm really not sure how you've flown from one topic to the other. I do get some amusement from the thought of Vermont--a landlocked state with a legendarily stagnant economy--fighting a war for independence and then persisting as a sovereign nation. And as for ACORN . . . apart from registering voters, what have they done to win elections "by any means necessary"?

COMMENT #18 [Permalink]

... Brad Friedman said on 1/15/2010 @ 8:51 pm PT...





Brook @ 16: The Al Franken election convinced me many close elections are totally rigged. You had absentee ballots just showing up mysteriously --- some reportedly found in abandoned cars. No. You didn't, Brook. You've been conned. I hope you'll consider using better news resources, instead of the ones who have apparently lied to you. A man who has literally failed at everything he's ever done is now sitting in my Senate making laws that affect my future. Yes. Failed by be an award winning comedy writer for two decades, having a number of a Best-Selling books, a daily radio show for years until he quit to run (sucessfully) for the U.S. Senate. You should hope that you're as much of a failure, Brook. I can't take it anymore. Well, that may be true. But, as I said, try reading news sources who don't lie to you. It may (or may not) make things easier to take. Vermont is fielding several candidates in state elections that are pushing to seceed, and other states are going to follow. Yes, state govs can be corrupt, but nothing like what has happened in DC --- a government that actively works against the will of the people like the unelected EU High Commission. Why? How is DC government more corrupt than it's been for the last decade? And do you want scones with your tea party? Our federal government is bankrupt fiscally and morally and our democracy is in tatters with ACORN and Diebold running amock to win elections by any means necessary. What does ACORN have to do with anything? (And have I mentioned you need better news sources? Glad you found us.) We're going to have to drain DC of a lot of it's power and give it back to the states or they're going to force the issue by leaving this corrupt system. Well, that sounds fine to me. Good luck!

COMMENT #19 [Permalink]

... Brad Friedman said on 1/15/2010 @ 8:56 pm PT...





Stephen Bonser @ 10: Should concerned citizens start putting pressure on NY Secretary of State Lorraine A. Cortés-Vázquez to ensure that the balloting and vote counting is done properly? Well, yes. But not in the Massachusettes election coming up next Tuesday! But for all of the others ones, yes, of course they should!

COMMENT #20 [Permalink]

... Brad Friedman said on 1/15/2010 @ 9:00 pm PT...





Karlof1 @ 6: How is it possible for it to be discovered if someone had requested an absentee ballot but not yet voted since those votes haven't been counted yet (aren't ballots only supposed to be counted AFTER the polls close)?!?!?! All jurisdictions are different, but many states/counties allow counting to occur BEFORE polls are closed (and some, even before they are open!), though the results are not supposed to be checked until after polls closed. As Jim March notes @ 8 above, of course, that's not what happened in Pima County, AZ, where officials printed out results, several times, before Election Day! BTW, Jim March, hope you got enough gas in your motorcycle (and a sidecar for John Brakey) to get to Massachusetts! I hear the weather's lovely there this time of year!

COMMENT #21 [Permalink]

... Brad Friedman said on 1/15/2010 @ 9:07 pm PT...





Is it possible for an accompanied honest, knowledgable hacker to track the computer readings realtime to correct any funny business prior to decision making time? Well...not really. I suppose they could illegally break into a scanner, set a remote device, and then follow it from outside. But they'd then have to do that in every polling place, and break a lot of laws in the bargain. And even then, might not be able to notice funny business. In other words, no. That plan won't work, as I see it. Or to note odd calculations for investigation asap? Again, for a hacker, not that I can figure. But for a citizen, to demand access to Memory Cards in a court of law, under the premise that they are public records and should be available to the public and should be retained for 22 months following a federal election (as per federal law, which everyone ignores) --- well, with all of that, you might be able to get somewhere. Quicker route: get rid of the damn machines, and count the damn ballots in front of everyone and be done with it. Also, are there no watchdogs at the precincts? Yes. You! Please? Would exit polls help in disputing the outcome if it appears funny when compared to voter registrations? Only in the Ukraine. Or in the event that an exit poll says the Republican should have won, but the Democrat ends up winning according to the machines (the reverse doesn't work, trust me.) Let the cameras roll! Personally, I think we should play their game better then they do Sounds good to me!

COMMENT #22 [Permalink]

... CharlieL said on 1/15/2010 @ 9:40 pm PT...





If the Massachusetts election is stolen by the GOP, the Dems will be getting EXACTLY what they deserve for ignoring election protection. They can lose the Senate 40, lose healthcare, lose the 2010 mid-terms, lose the Presidency and cease to be a party. They deserve it, but unfortunately, we'll have to live with the mess too.

COMMENT #23 [Permalink]

... bluebanshee said on 1/15/2010 @ 10:47 pm PT...





KARLOF @ 6:

I'm an election activist from Oregon. Even Oregon has absentee voters --- Overseas Military and others living/working abroad. Their ballots go out well in advance of the rest of us. Also anyone who will be out of the state during an election period can still request an absentee ballot.

COMMENT #24 [Permalink]

... karlof1 said on 1/15/2010 @ 11:52 pm PT...





Thanks for the reply Brad and all the work you're doing on so many issues. We can never be a democracy until everyone is allowed to vote and all the votes get counted. Unfortunately, there's the problem of who is getting elected with those votes and the agenda they're hiding from the voters that elected them.

COMMENT #25 [Permalink]

... ron_woodward said on 1/16/2010 @ 12:48 am PT...





Citizens Can Salvage Single Payer from Health Care Mess The health insurance industry, Big Pharma and other special interests have overplayed a pat hand. They have bribed every official in sight to the point the so-called health reform has the public by the short hairs. The bill promotes extortion with fines and punishments for those who don't comply with government dictates. This illustrates the disease of corporate communism, which has infested the entire nation. If the citizen has a brain, he realizes he has no say in health care delivery. The situation has come to a head in Massachusetts. If Coakley loses, the health care bills now before the Congress collapse without the 60th vote in the Senate. Horrified by this eventuality, the special interests have moved their funds and support to the Coakley campaign. They have ordered their lick-spittle President to rush to Massachusetts to pull their fat from the fire. Win or lose in Massachusetts, the citizens have an excellent window of opportunity. With both parties totally discredited and shamed beyond belief, any bill worth passing deserves a reconciliation effort to overcome a filibuster. Fifty-one votes should be enough to make H.R. 676 single payer the law of the land. Let every incumbent learn the 2010 election could unseat him and send him to prison. Such a realization is good for the character.

COMMENT #26 [Permalink]

... Floridiot said on 1/16/2010 @ 1:21 am PT...





B @ 15, don't sweat "Krusty the Clown" dude, if you didn't catch that handle...lol http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krusty_the_Clown

COMMENT #27 [Permalink]

... Floridiot said on 1/16/2010 @ 1:41 am PT...





Why isn't anyone suggesting that Kennedy was put on the ticket by Repukes to garner votes from unsuspecting elderly people that would have normally went to the Dem candidate?

Typical dirty tricks, more than a wrench in the system. They'll gain at least 5%+ from this action.

COMMENT #28 [Permalink]

... molly said on 1/16/2010 @ 6:02 am PT...





#22 I think a message has been sent by Don Seigleman.He went to bed as the gov. of Alabama, then at 1 AM. ...the vote was switched. He went to jail for objecting to crooked elections.

COMMENT #29 [Permalink]

... Brook said on 1/16/2010 @ 7:04 am PT...





Ron is correct. Both parties are discredited at this point, and this is really what the tea party rallies are about. However, i do not agree that a third party would make a difference. Look at Britain. Dismantling a few failed federal departments like education and relinquishing that responsiblity to the states is a much better solution. Washington has been trying to micromanage education since the 60's. How many more chances are we going to give them and flush more money down the drain, until we just shut them down?

COMMENT #30 [Permalink]

... Ernest A. Canning said on 1/16/2010 @ 8:45 am PT...



COMMENT #31 [Permalink]

... MarkH said on 1/16/2010 @ 9:25 am PT...





Now I'm really convinced the Dems should pay Sarah Palin to come in and speak WITH Kennedy to convince people he's not Teddy, just a TEA Party guy. Short of that we need t.v. ads with pics to clarify just who the candidates are and who is supporting them.

COMMENT #32 [Permalink]

... Big Dan said on 1/16/2010 @ 12:11 pm PT...





OT, but: FOX doesn't "do" humanitarian disasters with global significance involving black people! MSNBC's Matthews/Olbermann/Maddow vs. FOX's Beck/O'Reilly/Hannity on Haiti earthquake coverage: http://4.bp.blogspot.com...ake+coverage+by+show.jpg

COMMENT #33 [Permalink]

... Brook said on 1/16/2010 @ 3:45 pm PT...





Brad, excuse me, weren't you the one who said Obama never spoke at a black church and you would apologize if i proved you wrong? Go for it!

COMMENT #34 [Permalink]

... Brad Friedman said on 1/16/2010 @ 5:15 pm PT...





I don't believe I said he never spoke at a black church. I said I was unaware of it, and would happily apologize if you were able to demonstrate differently (all of this is a different thread, which has little to do with the topic of this article, btw). Have been working on deadlines today, and not able to reply to, much less read, all comments. So, thanks for posting those three clips in that other thread. I looked at them. Obama speaking at the church in Selma, Alabama in March 2007 --- the very church where the "Bloody Sunday" marchers gathered --- at an event held to commemorate the Civil Rights movement on the anniversary of the "Bloody Sunday" march is what you were referring to when you said: haven't i seen Obama appear to campaign at black churches all over the country --- on a Sunday? Or in 2005 when he appeared to support a candidate in New Jersey, and marked the anniversary of Rosa Parks, that's what you were referring to? Or in January 2008 when he spoke at DR. MARTIN LUTHER KING'S church, and was introduced by the pastor saying "Regardless of whether you are Republican or Democratic, Barack Obama makes us proud", that's what you were referring to?! (You gave three clips, and that's what they were). So yes, you did see "Obama appear to campaign at black churches" even if "all over the country" is a bit of an exaggeration (and even "appear to campaign" is up for grabs) and at each event speaking to crowds commemorating historic landmarks in civil rights moments in this country. If that's what you're offended by, then yes, I'm happy to apologize for having indicated that I was unfamiliar with those. I wasn't. But now I am. Thanks for sharing them. And I'll presume, if you are condemning him for having done so, that you're also condemning all of the "churches" and tax-exempt religious organizations who routinely proselytize and/or campaign for and/or send out materials in support of and/or fund ballot initiatives for Republican candidates and wingnut initiatives and George W. Bush, etc., right? (Eg. the Mormon church which spent MILLIONS in support of defeating Constitutinal equal protection in CA for example? Or Rick Warren and his church where Obama/McCain had their "debate"?) If so, then I'm right there with ya, and all for revoking ALL of their tax exempt status when those organizations fund campaigns and instruct voters how to vote.

COMMENT #35 [Permalink]

... Brook said on 1/16/2010 @ 6:26 pm PT...





Thanks to Brad for being a stand-up guy and admitting that both the right and left, (especially the Obamas --- witness openly using a black church to campaign for Jon Corzine), misuse religious organizations for political purposes. It is shameful, but it is ironic the ACLU only seems to sue the right-wing organizations. We are, however, looking forward to Brad's next blog on Black Liberation Theology and the danger it poses to America.

COMMENT #36 [Permalink]

... Indy said on 1/16/2010 @ 6:46 pm PT...





Democrat or Republican are both poor choices.

They always promise everything and deliver nothing.

Repub wins and I promise you despite any promises he will fall in line and vote right down the party line. WE NEED INDEPENDENTS nationwide to get our country back. VOTE INDEPENDENT. Don't be swayed, make a stand.

COMMENT #37 [Permalink]

... zapkitty said on 1/16/2010 @ 10:09 pm PT...





A bit off-topic, but a word of warning to those hoping that reconciliation will somehow magically result in a better HCR bill. Reconciliation will not result in a measurably better HCR bill because the Republicans did not make Obama craft this bill. This corporate-mandated shit sandwich is the bill Obama wanted in the first place. Again: this is the bill Obama wanted from the start. I’ve seen a lot of wishful thinking over at FDL articles, diaries and comments about reconciliation and I keep having to respond with these simple facts: Reconciliation is not going to happen because it won't be allowed to happen... but if it were used it would be used solely to impose the corporate will. (The oligarchic will, actually…) There’d be a lot of sweet nothings added in order to obscure that fact, possibly even that fig leaf of a public option after it had been safely watered down into uselessness, but the corporate shit sandwich would still lie at the core of a reconciliation vote. But that would mean a little too much exposure for comfort for even these leeches so reconciliation simply won’t happen. But if events were somehow forced to reconciliation then they’d still pass the corporate version regardless of how bad it would look.

COMMENT #38 [Permalink]

... katie said on 1/17/2010 @ 12:40 am PT...





Most likely the healthcare and bigpharm powers that be are willing to pay big bucks to produce public polls showing that Brown is ahead, and willing to pay the big bugs to LHS Associates who will ultimately count the votes. The tighter the race they can make it appear in the media, the less payola they'll have to pay to rig the election in Brown's favor. Democracy in the US is no longer democracy by majority rule, but by the golden rule: he/she/corporations who have the gold, decide. The MA Senate seat will be bought and sold by the highest bidder. For Brown to be even ahead 4% in the late Sen Kennedy's backyard is absolutely insane. For the public to go along with the perception that Brown stands a chance of winning and is in turn influenced by the media is also insane. I bet Brown will win, and nothing will be done about the how this election was purchased. Business as usual, move along folks, nothing to see here, just a few computer glitches.

COMMENT #39 [Permalink]

... zapkitty said on 1/17/2010 @ 8:20 am PT...





... katie said... "The tighter the race they can make it appear in the media, the less payola they'll have to pay to rig the election in Brown's favor." Er... errrrr... hmmm... I'm afraid you seem to be somewhat out of date... I believe that Coakley is the favored of the oligarch's corporate footstools. It's Coakley has said that she will vote for the corporate-mandated shit sandwich. It was Coakley whose campaign was flooded with healthcare corporate lobbyists and healthcare corporate cash when the polls showed her losing. (The vast majority of her fundraising "hosts" are now big pharma and insurance gangsters.) Brown has said he'll vote no on the bill and as I said above that would make the corporate leeches have to move a bit more overtly than they are comfortable with... so it won't be allowed to happen. At all. It's Brown who doesn't stand a chance. As for what happened to Coakley that she needs to be bailed out by the oligarchs?... a commenter named kafka over at FDL said it best: It took Carter and his big Dem Congressional majorities 4 years to piss off the country. It took Clinton and his big majorities 2 years. It’s taken Obama and his big majorities less than 1 year. The Democrats are getting better at this.

COMMENT #40 [Permalink]

... Big Dan said on 1/17/2010 @ 8:56 am PT...





Easily hacked Diebold voting machines to decide American health care.

COMMENT #41 [Permalink]

... zapkitty said on 1/17/2010 @ 9:19 am PT...





Big Dan said... "Easily hacked Diebold voting machines to decide American health care." No. That has already been decided by the oligarchs… the plutocrats who exercise de facto control over the corporations and yet comprise less than >1% of the population. They issued their demands and Obama complied. And that is all.

COMMENT #42 [Permalink]

... David Lasagna said on 1/17/2010 @ 9:51 am PT...





Dear Zapkitty- I'm mostly completely with you here. Except for this-- I don't think anyone can know who's going to "win" because there's too much stuff we just don't know about how the "counting" will go down. Yes, all that you say about the corporate world wanting, wining, and dining Coakley I think is probably accurate. But since the "counting" will be handled by the wild card that is LHS Associates and we don't know what they might want or get paid to want or by whom, I think it's difficult to predict the outcome. And the machines fucking up all by their lonesomes can't be ruled out as a possible determining factor in any outcome. This is one of the problems of our current multi-faceted dysfunction. You can't make up shit crazier than what might be going down but on the other hand it might also for multiple reasons not be going down whichever way any of us is imagining(or hallucinating). So we're all busy making up our different possibilities of reality. Some of it's right. Some of it's not. Some of it's crazy. Some of it's partly right. Some of it will eventually be discovered and validated. Some not. Some never. And on and on. And that, as we all know, is why we need a transparent and honest election and voting system. And the return of transparency in government. And we're going to have to push and pull like crazy and forever to make these things happen. And even then they may not. And we gotta keep trying anyway. love,

Dave

COMMENT #43 [Permalink]

... MsKitty said on 1/17/2010 @ 10:21 am PT...





Perfect scenario for the vote controlling hackers, a "squeaker", "too close too call", ... too easy to manipulate. I'll be stunned if the Democrat 'wins'. Keep on it Brad. Wake up people! This is no democracy if your vote can be disappeared, changed or multiplied!

COMMENT #44 [Permalink]

... zapkitty said on 1/17/2010 @ 10:58 am PT...





David, I said that the fate of HCR had been decided. And it has. The fingerprints are all over the fucking knife buried in America's back. There's no "conspiracy theory" about it and they haven't exactly been subtle... that's why voters are so damned pissed although they're mostly unaware of the slimey details or just how bad it's going to be. Your mistake is in thinking that this election will somehow affect the outcome of Obama's bill, the senate bill, the corporate-mandated shit sandwich we're all destined to eat... and the simple fact is the election will have no effect on that outcome. As for the rest... the mindset of "election fraud must equal a Republican win", something which Brad has warned against time and again, is in for a hell of an shock come Tuesday. Hint for the slow-to-wake-up... the corporations found Republicans useful as direct access to the levers of government but they've always worked both parties and now that they're in the drivers seat THEY DON'T GIVE A FUCK IF THE WINNER IS A REPUBLICAN OR A DEMOCRAT AS LONG AS THE WINNER TAKES THE MONEY AND DOES AS THEY ARE TOLD. And Coakley is taking the money and she will do as she is told. As would Brown in similar circumstances.

COMMENT #45 [Permalink]

... renzoku bb.com said on 1/17/2010 @ 11:53 am PT...





MsKitty on #43,

Please be nicer to the sheeple and the sheep dogs. None of us are to blame for being managed and eaten by the wolves. And trying harder to do the same failed tactics is a sign of insanity. Brad et all do an excellent job. What we're seeing here though is that someone in control of a larger context than even Brad has access to is not much threatened by the excellent work Brad does. In fact, they seem to anticipate Brad's work. Jon in Iowa #17.

Nice catch. Brook at any number of comments:

The tea parties are not all about free and fair elections. The tea parties are about taking a group of people who are just barely informed enough to not be able to ignore the corruption and crime at current levels, and to systematically mislead, twist truths and flat out lie to them to make it impossible to figure the truth. And then take advantage of their anger by pointing it at anyone remotely involved in uncovering and understanding the truth. As Bill Gates did in the early software industry, spread Fear Uncertainty and Doubt to such a level that no one does anything to fix anything so the rabid wolves can keep on eating the sheeple without the sheeple having a clue. Brad,

thank you again. I'm lookin and I still can't find a mistake in your research. Everyone,

here's the pattern that keeps emerging. Just like Brooke's tea partying friends, the powers that be over elections (Dem AND Rep) seem consistently to do one thing well: obscure results and deny access to accuracy. We gotta face it. It's not just part of the system now, it is the system. The proof is in how much simpler and easier the cure is than the disease. For these voting systems to be used, it takes so much more effort than just simple paper hand counted ballots and the results are so much less accurate by machine that we all know consciously or not that huge efforts are being made to hurt us. It's not incidental nor accidental nor a result of some ongoing struggle between good politicians and evil politicians. For this kind of adulteration to persist for more than a day, let alone years, it takes concerted, cooperative effort at all levels from all sides. Ok so I'm blaming OBusha again? What motive? Hmmm, what would happen to the OBusha agenda if the Dems had their magic 60? Why not 70? What policies would Dems have to accept responsibility if they had 70? Corporate rape throughout our system as we've had in the financial bailouts, the criminal military/torture/industrial/mercenary/bigbrother complex, the medical/pharma/insurance complex, the complete loss of civil rights,.... these can't all be blamed on those dang blue dogs and reps who keep throwing sand in the gears of congress. Yep it's all screwing the folks making less than $1M/yr all the time and it's all done by, for and with the Dems as well as Repubs. Again, thank you Brad and Mitch and Al Franken and all for the incredible research and efforts over the last decade at least. More and more now, I'm starting to see Dmitry Orlov's point that as the system collapses, the corruption becomes more and more plain to see and less and less correctable. Who among us believes anything short of paper ballots counted by hand is going to resolve any of this? Didn't Franken (as well as Thom Hartmann) talk and write at length about Germany's hand counted ballots and their tenth of a percent accuracy when compared to comprehensive exit polls? So for me at least, the question becomes what are the odds that we'll get and what do we need to do to get paper hand counted ballots?

COMMENT #46 [Permalink]

... David Lasagna said on 1/17/2010 @ 4:40 pm PT...





Zappy @ comment #44-- When you say this... Your mistake is in thinking that this election will somehow affect the outcome of Obama's bill, the senate bill, the corporate-mandated shit sandwich we're all destined to eat... and the simple fact is the election will have no effect on that outcome. ...you're attributing thinking to me that I am not thinking.

COMMENT #47 [Permalink]

... Lora said on 1/17/2010 @ 5:01 pm PT...





Note to campaign managers (especially in MA): In addition to your people asking: Can we count on your MONEY? ---and--- Can we count on your VOTE? Please add: Can we count on your SIGNATURE on a RECOUNT PETITION the day after the election? BTW, are internet petitions acceptable? That would put "recount" more into the realm of the possible.

COMMENT #48 [Permalink]

... Brook said on 1/17/2010 @ 5:09 pm PT...





Renz, you are wrong about the tea parties because i am actively involved in them. it is a cross-section of society so you've got a wide range of IQ's but the tea party movement is about seeing through the corruption in both parties. They have nothing good to say about Bush. What we're demanding is accountability, fiscal responsibility, and the cessation of ever-expanding government that is driving us into bankruptcy. When you consider those goals, not that many Americans are going to disagree with them.

COMMENT #49 [Permalink]

... Brad Friedman said on 1/17/2010 @ 6:54 pm PT...





Lora said: Can we count on your SIGNATURE on a RECOUNT PETITION the day after the election? BTW, are internet petitions acceptable? That would put "recount" more into the realm of the possible. You can't "recount" something that hasn't been counted, Lora. And since there is neither an automatic "audit" law in MA nor a full hand-count in the case of very close reported results (as I understand), it seems that NONE of the ballots voted by voters will actually be counted at all when the "results" are announced. If you're hoping to get folks interested in a manual count of all ballots, however, that's a different matter and no, I don't believe an Internet petition for same would have any legal weight (though perhaps moral weight).

COMMENT #50 [Permalink]

... Brad Friedman said on 1/17/2010 @ 6:58 pm PT...





Brook said: the tea party movement is about seeing through the corruption in both parties. They have nothing good to say about Bush. Not from my first hand experience. It looks to me like the bulk of them are little more than sore-losing Bush supporters. Those who now claim not to be have little moral authority, since they spent eight years NOT calling for all of the things you mentioned above, even as the most historic and unprecedented corruption, biggest government and complete disregard for the U.S. Constitution was taking place right under their noses. They didn't raise a peep. Did you?

COMMENT #51 [Permalink]

... renzoku bb.com said on 1/17/2010 @ 7:53 pm PT...





Brook,

Who financed the beautiful motor coaches for the Tea Party Express for their Red State only bus tour? Dude do you think everyone writing here doesn't read the rest of the excellent articles written here? Or do you not read here? Brad's point on #50 is dead on. Even better though, how did those 1500 tea party protesters pay for their 40 buses to Washington DC to protest OBusha and Congress against Health Care Reform (before we all knew what a shit-sandwich the oligarchs in OBushaland were definitely shoving down our throat)? Who paid for all their buses to get there? Go astroturf somewhere else Brook. I think I hear David H Koch and Dick Armey calling your name.

COMMENT #52 [Permalink]

... renzoku bb.com said on 1/17/2010 @ 8:04 pm PT...





So Brook,

How do the Tea Partiers feel about hand counted paper ballots? Or better yet full investigations, prosecutions and fund confiscations of all fraudulent (redundant I know) voting machine companies? And everyone, my earlier question wasn't rhetorical. How do we get hand counted paper ballots again?

COMMENT #53 [Permalink]

... Big Dan said on 1/18/2010 @ 6:44 am PT...





COMMENT #48 [Permalink]

... Brook said on 1/17/2010 @ 5:09 pm PT... Renz, you are wrong about the tea parties because i am actively involved in them. it is a cross-section of society so you've got a wide range of IQ's but the tea party movement is about seeing through the corruption in both parties. Then why are Sarah Palin and Michele Bachmann speaking at the February Tea Party? btw...I wonder how much donations Brown is getting from the health care industry?

COMMENT #54 [Permalink]

... Brook said on 1/18/2010 @ 7:35 am PT...





Let's cut through the tea bashing here to ask the question --- do you guys agree with these goals or not? If you agree that we have to get our fiscal house in order, then why are you protesting so loudly against this political movement?

COMMENT #55 [Permalink]

... Big Dan said on 1/18/2010 @ 8:29 am PT...





Again, Brook, answer the question: if it's "bi-partisan", why are Sarah Palin and Michele Bachmann speaking at it? Not answering the question means you are dodging it and admitting the Tea Party is a "Republican thing" and not bi-partisan.

COMMENT #56 [Permalink]

... Ernest A. Canning said on 1/18/2010 @ 9:24 am PT...





I would add to Brad's piece that the Hursti hack, depicted in Hacking Democracy was verified by the 02/06/2006 UC Berkley Security Analysis of the Diebold AccuBasic Interpreter [PDF], which noted: Harri Hursti's attack does work….He was indeed able to change the election results by doing nothing more than modifying the contents of a memory card. He needed no passwords, no cryptographic keys, and no access to any other part of the voting system, including the GEMS election management server. The report adds that there is an even greater vulnerability in some 16 "bugs" in the interpreter code that permit malicious tampering that "would not be discovered by any amount of functionality testing." they could allow an attacker to completely control the behavior of the AV-OS. An attacker could change vote totals, modify reports, change the names of candidates, change the races being voted on, or insert his own code...

COMMENT #57 [Permalink]

... Brook said on 1/18/2010 @ 10:03 am PT...





Dan, realize this is a grass roots movement, and the Tea Party Convention looks like a bad idea to me in it's current form. The protests were spontaneous and open to all who wanted to lend their voice. Blue Dogs like John Tanner have spoken or addressed Tea Party rallies, but many Republicans are afraid of it --- ask Charlie Crist. Lindsey Graham also was censored for his support of climate change, and many GOP members are announcing retirement, I believe due to the grass roots pressure. Okay, Dan, I answered your question --- now you answer mine: do you agree with reducing the size of the federal government and giving some of it's authority back to the states?

COMMENT #58 [Permalink]

... zapkitty said on 1/18/2010 @ 10:40 am PT...





No. The states would be as corrupt under corporate rule as the federal level is... and the last thing we need is 50 corporate fiefdoms squabbling over the scraps of what was once America.

COMMENT #59 [Permalink]

... Jeannie Dean said on 1/18/2010 @ 1:17 pm PT...





I feel it's important to point out here that the Tea-whatever movement is, in fact, a much more complex break-down of demographic than we might have been led to believe. The national Ron Paul movement was hi-jacked. So...what happened to the Ron Paul people? As one who was very much involved with the Ron Paul "movement", but dropped out when he did. (JAN. 08 / fter he showed no interest whatsoever in our New Hampshire Primary Recount Investigation which showed that the Diebold voting machines had a failure rate 163 times greater than allowed by Federal Law.)** Since then, I have watched the Tea Party Express / Tea Party Grass Roots evolution / dissolution with interest (and consternation) - always wondering how many of my smart, revolutionary, techno-saavy, hyper-aware, super-organized former RP people could be involved in this...stupid fest. So I made some phone calls to my former Ron Paul pals in Sarasota, Florida this past weekend - and just as I suspected, they were forced out of the local chapter Republican Party in 2009 after being VOTED IN as reps due the swelling of RP numbers in 2008. (Of interest to Bradblog readers, these folks were very aware of the wonky 'election' of Vern Buchanan in 2006, after the ES&S machines disappeared 18,412 votes for his opponent in our county.**) Since their ousting from local politics, they have quietly slipped back into the woodwork, now just trying to make ends meet. My point is, Brook and Damail may be completely different creatures (clearly are), with wide ranging IQ differentials (as Brook him/ herself mentions). I think we're seeing many different shades of Tea-party gray all parading (and pandering) under the banner of the TeaParty-Whatevs, which is why their recent bi-fercation is way note-worthy. (**links to verify upon request)

COMMENT #60 [Permalink]

... kkthomas said on 1/18/2010 @ 1:52 pm PT...





With a compliant (mainstream) media, Brown voters must do their own policing by exposing and documenting the Chicago machine in full action when busloads of ACORN and SEIU employees will attempt to rig the election. Please bring your video cameras, digital cameras and cell phone cameras to capture corrupt and fraudulent voting. Broadly disseminate any shady incidents via all news outlets and YouTube. Don't think they won't try. This is an "all-hands on deck" call for ethics enforcement. The day has long past since we can count on ABC, CBS, NBC, or CNN to expose political lies and corruption, but YOU can make a difference......................

"Democrats in power = widespread corruption"

COMMENT #61 [Permalink]

... Agent 99 said on 1/18/2010 @ 2:18 pm PT...





kk You forgot: Republicans in power = widespread corruption. You forgot: ANYONE in power in this completely corrupted government = widespread corruption. By all means, be vigilant to prevent the corruption of any election anywhere, but don't forget to look at the WHOLE thing, or it's just more election fraud, not work for election integrity. If you just pick out people from certain organizations to harry with video cameras, [1] you're not apt to get anything much, and [2] even if you do, you're still missing the whole picture, leaving the widespread corruption completely unfazed. You want to be EFFECTIVE against fraudulent elections? Pay attention.

COMMENT #62 [Permalink]

... PLUNGER said on 1/18/2010 @ 2:22 pm PT...





It is so obvious that the fix is in. The oligarchs want a divided country, and do everything in their power to use their media to ensure that outcome - always. It was like someone turned on a switch, and suddenly every talking head was declaring that this election would go to the GOP candidate. In fact, someone (CFR) did. When will we all admit this is just a big game, and the ruling elite are simply gaming us? Yammering about politics? They love it! MSNBC declares itself "Your channel for politics?" Who in the hell needs politics at all? The oligarchs do. You are being used.

COMMENT #63 [Permalink]

... zpkitty said on 1/18/2010 @ 3:27 pm PT...





kkthomas said... "... busloads of ACORN and SEIU employees... " ... "busloads"... when the real damage can be done in seconds by a single person out of sight. You see the core problem, Jeannie? They're still reflexively jerking off to the attack memes implanted in them by the right wing... and are spending their time preparing to fight an artfully crafted "enemy" that doesn't actually exist, and never did. I know the left can be just as bad and the center was bought straight off the clearance rack, but these people are still trying to wage their long-lost war against a "left" and an "Obama" that never really existed in the first place. Coordination will be difficult when reality is just now catching up to them and slamming their heads to and fro with a constant stream of facts that just don't fit their preconceived worldview... as they were basically indoctrinated to ignore such facts. *(I'm following the Ancient ways.)

COMMENT #64 [Permalink]

... Agent 99 said on 1/18/2010 @ 3:46 pm PT...





Just marry me, Zap.

COMMENT #65 [Permalink]

... Lora said on 1/18/2010 @ 3:52 pm PT...





Brad @ 49: You can't "recount" something that hasn't been counted, Lora. Well, I thought there was a 6-day time limit after the election to file a petition for a recount, and you had to have a separate petition for each ward, and you had to have 10 signatures for each petition. Even if the chance of a recount is slim to none, better to have your ducks in a row, just in case, I was thinking. Once the 6 days are up, you could not even ask for a recount, right? Am I missing something here? I'd appreciate clarification - TIA.

COMMENT #66 [Permalink]

... Brad Friedman said on 1/18/2010 @ 6:18 pm PT...





Lora asked: Am I missing something here? I'd appreciate clarification Sorry, I may have typed too fast. Point was, what you'd want after such an election is a manual hand count. A "recount" wouldn't be the right word, since the ballots will never have been counted in the first place. They will have been run through some computer gizmo which says --- accurately or not --- what might be on those ballots. I was largely making a semantical correction, not a legal one. On that score, you are correct. Sorry for the confusion.

COMMENT #67 [Permalink]

... Brook said on 1/18/2010 @ 6:22 pm PT...





The tea party will be co-opted or infiltrated by the elites eventually, which is why a third party is doomed to fail. This is why the folks i am working with are avoiding any formal structure. It's true some state governments are riddled with corruption, but imo they are far more responsive and accountable to the voters.

COMMENT #68 [Permalink]

... Brad Friedman said on 1/18/2010 @ 6:24 pm PT...





Brook said: The tea party will be co-opted or infiltrated by the elites eventually It already was, Brook. Long ago. It was coopted when the corporate Republicans lost the election and took over Ron Paul's real Tea Party which had been going on for years, as you guys called him crazy. Sorry the word hasn't gotten to you yet. Perhaps try watching something other than Fox "News".

COMMENT #69 [Permalink]

... Brook said on 1/19/2010 @ 6:51 am PT...





No, i disagree, because there is no formal structure in the tea party movement, and on the local level it is housewives, white-collar, blue-collar --- anyone who wants to be a part of it. We don't collect money to pay salaries and open offices all over the country like ACORN. Communication is mostly through email, and we won't be doing any protests until tax day or unless this monstrous health care bill is about to be passed.

COMMENT #70 [Permalink]

... Brad Friedman said on 1/19/2010 @ 8:39 am PT...





Brook said @ 69: there is no formal structure in the tea party movement Yes, I know. That's what you believe, because the largest media machine in the world, which has structured it, organized it and publicized it, keeps telling you as much. In the meantime, much larger grassroots groups, who really *didn't* have anybody structuring them have gone (and continue to go) ignored by that same media. (Eg. See the Iraq War demonstrations which dwarfed the Tea Bagger protests, but weren't covered at all in the corporate media). You've been conned, Brook. And you've fallen for it hook, line and tea bag. We don't collect money to pay salaries and open offices all over the country like ACORN. YOU don't. But the corporations who are running the scam do, and they've invested MILLIONS into your "grass roots" movement. Pay attention. As to ACORN, are you suggesting there is something wrong with citizens organizing themselves to help other citizens in need? Do you have something against "we, the people"?! Communication is mostly through email, and we won't be doing any protests until tax day Why would you protest on "tax day"? Obama has lowered taxes for 85% of America. (Guessing you didn't know that.) While Dubya raised the debt to an historic level and you guys didn't raise a peep. or unless this monstrous health care bill is about to be passed. But you forgot to protest when Bush's "monstrous health care bill" (Medicare Part D) was passed to the tune of $800 billion and, unlike what the Dems are doing, he didn't bother to actually pay for it? Starting to see how you've been conned yet, Brook?

COMMENT #71 [Permalink]

... Ernest A. Canning said on 1/19/2010 @ 8:44 am PT...





Brook said there is no formal structure in the tea party movement...

_____________________________ Sorry to tell you this, Brook, but you have been misled by a well-funded group of snake-oil salesmen. Here's a tidbit from one article, out of many, on the subject: If you suspected Rick Santelli’s “spontaneous” tea party rant was actually a fake, you may be on to something. It’s starting to look like it was part of a conservative astroturfing campaign put together by FreedomWorks, Dick Armey’s right-wing propaganda operation. The article quotes another: Within hours of Santelli's rant, a website called ChicagoTeaParty.com sprang to life. Essentially inactive until that day, it now featured a YouTube video of Santelli’s “tea party” rant and billed itself as the official home of the Chicago Tea Party. The domain was registered in August, 2008 by Zack Christenson, a dweeby Twitter Republican and producer for a popular Chicago rightwing radio host Milt Rosenberg—a familiar name to Obama campaign people. On the same day as Santelli's rant, February 19, another site called Officialchicagoteaparty.com went live. This site was registered to Eric Odom, who turned out to be a veteran Republican new media operative specializing in imitation-grassroots PR campaigns. Astroturfing is by no means new to those in the election integrity movement. The same technique was used to blunt investigations of the massive, computerized theft of the 2004 election in Ohio. Countering efforts made by Democrats and others in the election integrity movement to get to the bottom of the weird shift of Ohio from the Kerry to the Bush column, Rep. Bob Ney (R-OH) conducted separate hearings in which he called as an expert witness Mark F. (Thor) Hearne, II of the "American Center for Voting Rights" (ACVR) to testify at a Monday hearing. Turns out, ACVR had only been formed the preceding Thursday. Mark F. (Thor) Hearne, II --- the National General Counsel for Bush/Cheney '04 Inc. --- gave testimony for the group and is listed on the U.S. House Administrative Committee website as simply "National Counsel, American Center for Voting Rights". No mention of his current high-level connections to Bush/Cheney and his long history of working with other powerful Republican officials all the way back to his time working for the Reagan Administration. One could go on and on about the use of phony think tanks and astroturf groups who challenge the science of global warming, etc. While the uninformed followers are indeed, as Brook describes them, simply "housewives, white-collar, blue-collar..." at the core of these astroturf organizations one will always find massive corporate wealth used to pay utterly corrupt and dishonest organizers whose propaganda is amplified by the hard-right echo chamber.

COMMENT #72 [Permalink]

... Brook said on 1/19/2010 @ 9:21 am PT...





I'm lmao at you guys. Let's see should we believe a liberal blogger or an active member of the movement on the inside who is privy to and involved in trying to steer what is going on? This movement would not have happened at all without talk radio. In my city 12,000 people came out for a rally and the overwhelming majority were persuaded to be there by local talk radio hosts who spoke at the rallies. These personalities were not paid to be there --- they were there because they actually believe their own rhetoric. They've also been instrumental in rallying folks to kill bad local legislation and pork projects, which proves they are not tools of nat'l corporations. Corporate profits are not affected at all by reducing federal government spending, which is the core demand of the movement. We want some sort of blueprint for how we are going to get out from under $ 12 trillion of debt and $ 50 trillion in unfunded mandates. Again, I can't see where any American would oppose making that demand of Congress, and Brad still has not indicated where he stands on the issue.

COMMENT #73 [Permalink]

... Scott said on 1/19/2010 @ 9:47 am PT...





These voting machine problems have existed for years. I suspect that the machines have been just swell there in Massachusetts until now; the eleventh hour, now that democrats are fearful of an embarrassing loss of a Senate seat. What if Martha wins? I wonder if you will still have the same degree of concern.

COMMENT #74 [Permalink]

... Ernest A. Canning said on 1/19/2010 @ 11:28 am PT...





Brook said This movement [tea-baggers] would not have happened at all without talk radio.

________________________ Yes, and just what "talk radio" station attracted you to the "movement?" Who owns that station --- and many others like it throughout the hard right echo chamber?

COMMENT #75 [Permalink]

... Jon in Iowa said on 1/19/2010 @ 12:40 pm PT...





You continue to amuse, Brook. "Let's see should we believe a liberal blogger or an active member of the movement on the inside who is privy to and involved in trying to steer what is going on?" Argument from disbelief is by itself a logical fallacy, and you've shown very little evidentiary support that Brad, Ernest and the sources they point to are dishonest. The tea parties' astroturfing underpinning is well documented. You're suggesting that you'd believe whichever somebody down the line, who's financially motivated to push a profitable position, rather than believe someone whose opinions you generally disagree with. About the talk-radio hosts, would you mind pointing us to a bit of documentation stating that they promoted and attended the rallies pro bono? It's not that I think it's out of the realm of possibility--lord knows talk-radio hosts can be duped, too--but I don't want to see anyone spinning assumptions into reality. Regardless, it's not difficult to see the connection between rallying a fan base and creating ratings. "Corporate profits are not affected at all by reducing federal government spending. . . . " So . . . you're not out to cut the oil-company subsidies and exorbitant military contracts and big-farm handouts and price-inflating medication controls? Instead you're after the rare bits of legislation that actually help the people? In trying to pin Brad to a position, you're first engaging in a "no true Scotsman" fallacy, where anyone who disagrees with you isn't an American, and then you're trying to catch Brad middling. Either he agrees with you, and you're right, neener-neener-neener, or he disagrees and defaults into what you've set up as the unpopular and unthinkable opinion. What you're neglecting to consider, of course, is that Brad isn't a politician, and his opinion has no bearing on his validity as a press organ. In fact, in that regard, it may be in his best interest not to express his opinion. Brook, it's not that we doubt your sincerity and good intentions, but the tea parties are not what you claim them to be; they didn't start--or at least didn't come to prominence--the way you say, and you have greatly idealized their integrity as a populist movement. I'm only a sporadic poster around these parts, but I know that your opinions are welcome here; just please can the "gotcha!" traps and derogative assumptions. That's not constructive discourse, and if you'll stop your cynical positioning of yourself as the victim opposition, you may find that a number of us share libertarian leanings with you.

COMMENT #76 [Permalink]

... ctvoter said on 1/19/2010 @ 1:01 pm PT...





David Schuster of MSNBC says there will be NO EXIT POLLS in Massachusetts tonight. Takes my breath away.

COMMENT #77 [Permalink]

... Agent 99 said on 1/19/2010 @ 1:22 pm PT...





I'm torn between hoping the Republican "wins" so the fascist bills hanging fire won't pass, and hoping the Democrat "wins" so people will finally realize the election fraud is cutting both ways. It's despicable to be left with this little to hope for, but, well, it's down to that... long as people will accept this crap as a viable election... long as people will accept MSNBC telling them they don't get exit polls... long as America doesn't bestir itself to stop all the travesties in progress right under our noses.

COMMENT #78 [Permalink]

... Agent 99 said on 1/19/2010 @ 1:30 pm PT...





Actually, that's not strictly true anymore. I've been torn. Today I find, amazingly even to me, that I prefer the fascist bill obstruction even to the possibility of awakening to the universal utility of rigging elections.... Sorry.

COMMENT #79 [Permalink]

... Brook said on 1/19/2010 @ 2:24 pm PT...





Jon from Iowa, how about you stick to speaking for Jon from Iowa? Brad doesn't need you to defend him. He can answer the question or choose to take a pass, and i don't need you to pierce any bubbles you believe i'm living in.

COMMENT #80 [Permalink]

... Jon in Iowa said on 1/19/2010 @ 3:08 pm PT...





Sorry, where did I defend Brad? I addressed nothing whatsoever he said, only your failed and presumptuous logic. It may be uncomfortable for you "open-minded" tea-party types, but this is an open comment section. It's hardly the place to privately bully anyone. I think any real American would agree with that. Where do you stand on it, Brook? Wow, that's fun! Now I see why you do it. Anyway, I think it's very interesting to see that your response to criticism of your position is not to prove the position or disprove the criticism; it's to try to wish away the critic and overtly state that you'd rather be ignorant than reconsider.

COMMENT #81 [Permalink]

... Brook said on 1/19/2010 @ 6:00 pm PT...





Comment # 75 Jon speculates on Brad's thought processes "Brad isn't a politician, and his opinion has no bearing on his validity as a press organ. In fact, in that regard, it may be in his best interest not to express his opinion." Then he provides my answer to Brad's answer --- even though Brad hasn't even offered up an answer. So, there's really no need for any of us to post anymore, folks. Jon will do our posting and thinking for us. "Either he agrees with you, and you're right, neener-neener-neener, or he disagrees and defaults into what you've set up as the unpopular and unthinkable opinion." You're like a character in an Elvis tune in the Vegas jumpsuit years.

COMMENT #82 [Permalink]

... Agent 99 said on 1/19/2010 @ 6:32 pm PT...





Brook and Jon Could you guys just stay mindful of the commenting rules while you go about yer argument? I know it's kind of psychedelic because, around here, personal attacks come in many flavors, are engaged in with no objection or objectivity and then suddenly reviled clear into exile, just end up being a catchall for whatever righteous excuse for one's personal animus one might be groping for at any given moment... etc. But anyway, at this moment I feel that comparing someone to a character in an Elvis tune is an insult, so yer getting this warning.

COMMENT #83 [Permalink]

... Jon in Iowa said on 1/19/2010 @ 8:38 pm PT...





And now, Brook, you've deflected into an entirely different complaint about me. I did not speculate as to Brad's thought process; I merely pointed out an obvious fact which you were missing. His opinion on any given issue--especially an overly generalized cheerleader issue--is irrelevant, unless you're deliberately creating a rhetorical dilemma. Your insistence that he answer, of course, is a way of suggesting he's got something--something unAmerican, perhaps?--to hide. That's how the "middling" attack works. Just connecting the dots doesn't make me the artist. And 99, reminder noted. I prefer to think of myself as a character from a Gordon Lightfoot tune.

COMMENT #84 [Permalink]

... Brook said on 1/20/2010 @ 6:01 am PT...

