Frozenlock



Offline



Activity: 434

Merit: 250









Sr. MemberActivity: 434Merit: 250 Roger Ver and Jon Matonis pushed aside now that Bitcoin is becoming mainstream April 20, 2013, 03:36:46 AM #1

Roger Ver has been spreading the ideas of Bitcoin for years with his advertisements on Free Talk Live,

, his investments in many Bitcoin related projects

(such as blockchain.info and Bitcoinstore.com) and his many public



Remember this?



Yup, that was also him. (Man, was I excited in 2011 when I saw this!)











Jon Matonis published countless article about Bitcoins (many on

professional background in the banking system, making him an excellent liaison

with this otherwise strange world. He also made multiple public





Both of these individuals are amazingly well spoken and have brilliantly spread

the Bitcoin word for years. And yet, now that Bitcoin is getting more media exposure, they have

been

"extreme" to be shown on TV, or they have done some things in the past that could be

used against Bitcoin image, even if completely unrelated. (Yeah right, Silkroad and the anonymity aren't enough...)



I think this is a load of crap.

You have potentially the most important invention in the history of mankind, but you try to gift-wrap

it in a nice little politically-correct package. What are you afraid of? If Bitcoin is an efficient system,

it will be adopted regardless of the opinions of some of the speakers.



As this move seemed to have gone mostly unnoticed, I wanted to bring some light to it.



So, any of you appreciates what those two individuals have done for Bitcoin?

Do you think they should be pushed aside to protect Bitcoin's image?

If, like me, you think they are great representatives for Bitcoin, please speak! Roger Ver has been spreading the ideas of Bitcoin for years with his advertisements on Free Talk Live, his bold $10 000 bet , his investments inBitcoin related projects(such asand) and his many public appearances Remember this?Yup, that was also him. (Man, was I excited in 2011 when I saw this!)Jon Matonis published countless article about Bitcoins (many on Forbes ) and has aprofessional background in the banking system, making him an excellent liaisonwith this otherwise strange world. He also made multiple public appearances Both of these individuals are amazingly well spoken and have brilliantly spreadthe Bitcoin word for years. And yet, now that Bitcoin is getting more media exposure, they havebeen rejected from bitcoin.org as potential interviewees . Apparently, their views are too"extreme" to be shown on TV, or they have done some things in the past thatbeused against Bitcoin image, even if completely unrelated. (Yeah right, Silkroad and the anonymity aren't enough...)You have potentially the most important invention in the history of mankind, but you try to gift-wrapit in a nice little politically-correct package. What are you afraid of? If Bitcoin is an efficient system,it will be adopted regardless of the opinions of some of the speakers.As this move seemed to have gone mostly unnoticed, I wanted to bring some light to it.So, any of you appreciates what those two individuals have done for Bitcoin?Do you think they should be pushed aside to protect Bitcoin's image?If, like me, you think they arerepresentatives for Bitcoin, please speak!

Severian



Offline



Activity: 476

Merit: 250









Sr. MemberActivity: 476Merit: 250 Re: Roger Ver and Jon Matonis pushed aside now that Bitcoin is becoming mainstream April 20, 2013, 04:03:56 AM #4



Uh...right.



We also can't have Joe Mainstream thinking that the first stateless, decentralized currency is some kind of anti-government/bank statement, even though its creator said:



Quote > You will not find a solution to political problems in cryptography.



Yes, but we can win a major battle in the arms race and gain a new

territory of freedom for several years.



Governments are good at cutting off the heads of a centrally

controlled networks like Napster, but pure P2P networks like

Gnutella and Tor seem to be holding their own.



Satoshi Nakamoto

07 Nov 2008



Quote Its very attractive to the libertarian viewpoint if we can explain it properly. Im better with code than with words though.



Satoshi Nakamoto

14 Nov 2008

My own opinion is that it makes no difference if Bitcoin is accepted by the "mainstream" or not. They'll have to use it in two or three years anyway. The more quickly the tools of the mainstreaming banks and governments like MtGox, Coinbase, Coinlab and other centralizing influences are gone, the better off Bitcoin will be.



Bitcoin would also be better off if people didn't claim to speak for Bitcoin. Some of the Bitcoin community is claiming to speak for all of Bitcoin. Those that are claiming the voice have an irrational fear of anarchists and other such horrible things that might make Bitcoin look "weird".Uh...right.We also can't have Joe Mainstream thinking that the first stateless, decentralized currency is some kind of anti-government/bank statement, even though its creator said:My own opinion is that it makes no difference if Bitcoin is accepted by the "mainstream" or not. They'll have to use it in two or three years anyway. The more quickly the tools of the mainstreaming banks and governments like MtGox, Coinbase, Coinlab and other centralizing influences are gone, the better off Bitcoin will be.Bitcoin would also be better off if people didn't claim to speak for Bitcoin.

BCB

VIP

Legendary



Offline



Activity: 1064

Merit: 1002





BCJ







CTGVIPLegendaryActivity: 1064Merit: 1002BCJ Re: Roger Ver and Jon Matonis pushed aside now that Bitcoin is becoming mainstream April 20, 2013, 04:11:12 AM #6



Roger Ver I don't trust.



Jon Matonis has been and will continue to be a great advocate for bitcoin as a journalist and doesn't need to be on the press list. Just read any of his articles over the past few years or better yet follow him on twitter.



A real journalists is going to talk to whoever they want if they do a little research, regardless of whether or not they are listed on the press page.



What's your beef? Tony Gallippi is by far one of the most articulate bitcoin advocates out there. Here is a great example: http://youtu.be/hH4rH6wu25U Roger Ver I don't trust.Jon Matonis has been and will continue to be a great advocate for bitcoin as a journalist and doesn't need to be on the press list. Just read any of his articles over the past few years or better yet follow him on twitter. https://twitter.com/jonmatonis A real journalists is going to talk to whoever they want if they do a little research, regardless of whether or not they are listed on the press page.What's your beef?

sunnankar



Offline



Activity: 1031

Merit: 1000









LegendaryActivity: 1031Merit: 1000 Re: Roger Ver and Jon Matonis pushed aside now that Bitcoin is becoming mainstream April 20, 2013, 04:17:08 AM #7 Quote from: BCB on April 20, 2013, 04:11:12 AM A real journalists is going to talk to whoever they want if they do a little research, regardless of whether or not they are listed on the press page.



This is the real issue; assisting journalists in performing their professional responsibilities.



As I commented on the thread:



Quote



As saivann suggested with moving to different requests with issues;



For example, the general disclaimer should lay the foundation for including other voices from a wide spectrum including Matonis (leaving aside the argument for including Ver since it is slightly more complicated) who is already a member of the Press at Forbes and the Bitcoin Foundation Secretary. Additionally, Matonis has deep payments experience with his corporate work at Visa and is often invited to payments conferences. The press usually wants a wide range of opinions and occasionally organizes debates. For example, I was at an investment conference where the press had setup a debate between a Republican, Democrat and Libertarian.



With a general disclaimer in place if bitcoin.org continues to intentionally limit the range of ideas offered, such as not including Matonis, it is both unprofessional under journalism standards and a disservice to the press because the press wants to find individuals who will fit into the narrative or story they are crafting. If bitcoin.org hides the ball and limits the marketplace of ideas, when they exist within the community, then it only serves to delegitimize the Press Center and runs contrary to its purpose of assisting journalists in performing their role and job.



As always, since Bitcoin is an open-source project, participation is greatly encouraged because it will generally lead to a better outcome so thank you for including your ideas and arguments. And please participate in the future issues and discussions. @Frozenlock, Both Roger Ver and Jon Matonis were pushed aside because of the arguments from Lukejr and gmaxwell as presented earlier in this thread. The Press section needed to be resolved expeditiously and that was the easiest way because those arguments were valid and additional work needs to be done to resolve the legitimate concerns raised.As saivann suggested with moving to different requests with issues; Pull request #146 contains a general disclaimer and has received an ACK from jgarzik. This general disclaimer lays the groundwork to clear up the Press's misconception about Bitcoin being a company, remove any confusion that bitcoin.org is endorsing either businesses, political or personal ideas, etc. and will implicitly resolve the arguments presented by Lukejr and gmaxwell.For example, the general disclaimer should lay the foundation for including other voices from a wide spectrum including Matonis (leaving aside the argument for including Ver since it is slightly more complicated) who is already a member of the Press at Forbes and the Bitcoin Foundation Secretary. Additionally, Matonis has deep payments experience with his corporate work at Visa and is often invited to payments conferences. The press usually wants a wide range of opinions and occasionally organizes debates. For example, I was at an investment conference where the press had setup a debate between a Republican, Democrat and Libertarian.With a general disclaimer in place if bitcoin.org continues to intentionally limit the range of ideas offered, such as not including Matonis, it is both unprofessional under journalism standards and a disservice to the press because the press wants to find individuals who will fit into the narrative or story they are crafting. If bitcoin.org hides the ball and limits the marketplace of ideas, when they exist within the community, then it only serves to delegitimize the Press Center and runs contrary to its purpose of assisting journalists in performing their role and job.As always, since Bitcoin is an open-source project, participation is greatly encouraged because it will generally lead to a better outcome so thank you for including your ideas and arguments. And please participate in the future issues and discussions. This is the real issue; assisting journalists in performing their professional responsibilities.As I commented on the thread: Bitcoin Knowledge Podcast with top Bitcoin people and the Free Bitcoin Guide

wumpus



Offline



Activity: 812

Merit: 1000



No Maps for These Territories







Hero MemberActivity: 812Merit: 1000No Maps for These Territories Re: Roger Ver and Jon Matonis pushed aside now that Bitcoin is becoming mainstream April 20, 2013, 05:09:40 AM #14



Government and business people will come up with weird, far-fetched analogies such as series of pipes, and we'll know it's exactly like the internet in the 90's

A time progresses, advocacy needs to be watered-down and dumbed-down to appeal to an ever larger audience. Until at a certain point, Joe Sixpack can explain the advantages of using Bitcoin to Jane Sixpack without mentioning any technical detail. A lot of the early adopters and promoters will think this sucks but are drowned out in the noise of millions of new users.Government and business people will come up with weird, far-fetched analogies such as series of pipes, and we'll know it's exactly like the internet in the 90's Warning: For most, coin loss is a larger risk than coin theft. A disk can die any time. Regularly back up your wallet through File → Backup Wallet to an external storage or the (encrypted!) cloud. Use a separate offline wallet for storing larger amounts. Bitcoin Core developer [PGP] For most, coin loss is a larger risk than coin theft. A disk can die any time. Regularly back up your wallet throughto an external storage or the (encrypted!) cloud. Use a separate offline wallet for storing larger amounts.

blockgenesis



Offline



Activity: 285

Merit: 250



Bitcoin.org maintainer







Sr. MemberActivity: 285Merit: 250Bitcoin.org maintainer Re: Roger Ver and Jon Matonis pushed aside now that Bitcoin is becoming mainstream April 20, 2013, 05:31:55 AM #17



As said in the github issue, civilized criticisms and arguments are welcome. An issue for Roger Ver has been opened already.



However, choosing interviewees will always generate accusations and criticisms no matter what is the final choice. I don't mind being a target for criticisms. What matters to me is that we have a press center with great quality content for journalists and we didn't have it yesterday. We can continue to improve it. The current interviewees list is really just a beginning, we want much more.



If you want to participate in the press team, there it is : I am the one who pushed the press center without Roger Ver and John Matonis. If they were still on the page, the page wouldn't be online at all because there was legitimate discussions and disagreement on them. Not only from developers, most criticisms came as comments from contributors I don't know, and they presented good arguments. So I took action to make sure that this wouldn't block the whole project for two interviewees that we can add later if needed.As said in the github issue, civilized criticisms and arguments are welcome. An issue for Roger Ver has been opened already.However, choosing interviewees will always generate accusations and criticisms no matter what is the final choice. I don't mind being a target for criticisms. What matters to me is that we have a press center with great quality content for journalists and we didn't have it yesterday. We can continue to improve it. The current interviewees list is really just a beginning, we want much more.If you want to participate in the press team, there it is : https://groups.google.com/forum/# !forum/bitcoin-press-team Donation: 18XXXQs1vAQGBAZbXKA322r9Zy1nZac2H4

benjamindees



Offline



Activity: 1330

Merit: 1000







LegendaryActivity: 1330Merit: 1000 Re: Roger Ver and Jon Matonis pushed aside now that Bitcoin is becoming mainstream April 20, 2013, 05:42:38 AM #18 Jesus, this is ridiculous. I can barely even read it. It's like a bunch of five-year-olds fighting over who gets to be the prettiest princess. Ironically, if any of them should be kept far away from the media, it's Jeff Garzik. He's the only one of those mentioned who repeatedly says stupid things to the press, and generally looks like a hobo while doing so.



I have been as skeptical about Matonis and Ver as anyone, probably moreso, but no one can deny that they are doing an effective job of representing Bitcoin in the media. Hell, even Matthew, who is a complete idiot otherwise, would make a decent media spokesperson. It's not a skillset that tends to coincide with software development. It requires a quick wit, wide understanding of the topic at hand, and most importantly an alpha personality.



And, Luke-Jr, buddy... lol. At least try to remember that you wouldn't even be on the dev team if it were a popularity contest, and keep the statist obstructionism to a minimum. Civil Liberty Through Complex Mathematics

wumpus



Offline



Activity: 812

Merit: 1000



No Maps for These Territories







Hero MemberActivity: 812Merit: 1000No Maps for These Territories Re: Roger Ver and Jon Matonis pushed aside now that Bitcoin is becoming mainstream April 20, 2013, 05:43:51 AM #19 Quote from: Matthew N. Wright on April 20, 2013, 05:12:04 AM I wonder if half of bitcoiners realize that arguments on reddit and other places caused by someone's inaccurate depictions of bitcoin aren't due to actual ignorance, but are in fact intentionally inaccurate to draw out the emotional and overly defensive crazies for comedic value. Bitcoin or not, crazy is never good.

I remember that, too, from the early internet. Many mass media tried to trivialize and belittle the internet, its impact on society, and its users. And when the dotnet bubble burst it was all over, the internet was dead, we'd go back to the old ways. That mostly went away as years passed Good ideas won't go away when people are laughing at them. But there is an initial hostility toward new technologies, what Michio Kaku calls "The caveman principle": If it wouldn't appeal to our early ancestors, it won't appeal to random people now.



Anyway, the earlier advocated were very different from the latter ones. Take for example another idea that was severely belittled and underestimated in the beginning: free software. Though he was great at pitching the idea to software developers and idealists back in the day, most news outlets are not going to invite Richard Stallman to an interview about the subject. He's just too extreme.



As a latter-day advocate you need someone that is likable in the eyes of the masses, doesn't make them think too much, doesn't say anything too politically incorrect (or idealistic), wears a suit and tie and makes great promises, tells you why *thing* will make your friends and family love you more, makes your skin look younger, improve the taste of your food and improve your sex life. Only that, and generational shifts, will conquer the caveman principle.

I remember that, too, from the early internet. Many mass media tried to trivialize and belittle the internet, its impact on society, and its users. And when the dotnet bubble burst it was all over, the internet was dead, we'd go back to the old ways. That mostly went away as years passedGood ideas won't go away when people are laughing at them. But there is an initial hostility toward new technologies, what Michio Kaku calls "The caveman principle": If it wouldn't appeal to our early ancestors, it won't appeal to random people now.Anyway, the earlier advocated were very different from the latter ones. Take for example another idea that was severely belittled and underestimated in the beginning: free software. Though he was great at pitching the idea to software developers and idealists back in the day, most news outlets are not going to invite Richard Stallman to an interview about the subject. He's just too extreme.As a latter-day advocate you need someone that is likable in the eyes of the masses, doesn't make them think too much, doesn't say anything too politically incorrect (or idealistic), wears a suit and tie and makes great promises, tells you why *thing* will make your friends and family love you more, makes your skin look younger, improve the taste of your food and improve your sex life. Only that, and generational shifts, will conquer the caveman principle. Warning: For most, coin loss is a larger risk than coin theft. A disk can die any time. Regularly back up your wallet through File → Backup Wallet to an external storage or the (encrypted!) cloud. Use a separate offline wallet for storing larger amounts. Bitcoin Core developer [PGP] For most, coin loss is a larger risk than coin theft. A disk can die any time. Regularly back up your wallet throughto an external storage or the (encrypted!) cloud. Use a separate offline wallet for storing larger amounts.