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November 6th

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johan.nygren9

[12:46 AM]

Uploaded an image: algorithm

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johan.nygren9 [12:51 AM] @jeffreybpetersen: that would be amazing. can you make out the details from this image ?

jeffreybpetersen [1:06 AM] Let me check: To start each node defines their personal taxeme by setting a value that indicates a tax rate.

johan.nygren9 [1:06 AM] yup

johan.nygren9[1:06 AM]they can change it at any time

jeffreybpetersen [1:06 AM] When a node participates in a transaction, how does the inheritance work?

johan.nygren9 [1:07 AM] passed down to you (edited)

johan.nygren9[1:07 AM]and stores the amount you transacted

jeffreybpetersen [1:07 AM] Passed to you by all the other participants in the transaction?

jeffreybpetersen[1:09 AM]If I had a taxeme of 10% and you had a taxeme of 50%, and we made a transaction, then what would happen?

johan.nygren9 [1:10 AM] if I sent a transaction to you for 2 ETH, i’d inherit your 10% taxeme and it would store an integer with the transaction amount, 2 ETH

johan.nygren9[1:11 AM]i would then have 2 taxemes, my 50% and your 10%

johan.nygren9[1:11 AM]the 10% taxeme would be dominant

jeffreybpetersen [1:11 AM] So a taxeme conceptually consists of a rate and a list of transactions?

johan.nygren9 [1:13 AM] when a third person sends a transaction to me, it would be taxed by the dominant taxeme, and they would inherit the 10% taxeme

jeffreybpetersen [1:13 AM] Is the inherited taxeme defined by which is dominant or which is lowest?

johan.nygren9 [1:14 AM] both, the lowest is the dominant

jeffreybpetersen [1:14 AM] Ah, ok.

jeffreybpetersen[1:15 AM]So taxemes work strictly with 2 party transactions of something with taxed value for something else?

jeffreybpetersen[1:15 AM]In this case the taxed value being Ether.

jeffreybpetersen[1:18 AM]And inheritance is always from the party receiving the taxed value to the party sending it?

johan.nygren9 [1:18 AM] yes, it’s passed down from the receiver to the sender

jeffreybpetersen [1:19 AM] And then if you ever exhaust your set of taxemes you default back to your personal taxeme?

johan.nygren9 [1:19 AM] yes

jeffreybpetersen [1:20 AM] And if you would ever inherit a copy of your personal taxeme then the copy is instead destroyed?

johan.nygren9 [1:20 AM] yes

jeffreybpetersen [1:20 AM] Ok, I’m trying to think if there’s anything I’m missing at this point.

jeffreybpetersen[1:20 AM]Ah, how does the taxing itself work?

johan.nygren9 [1:21 AM] it could be sent to a fund for now, like, just an address on the first draft

jeffreybpetersen [1:22 AM] When you make a transaction, is the tax rate that of the inherited taxeme?

johan.nygren9 [1:22 AM] of the lowest, always

jeffreybpetersen [1:23 AM] The lowest as held by both the sender and receiver or only one of them?

johan.nygren9 [1:23 AM] receiver

jeffreybpetersen [1:23 AM] So then it would be that of the inherited taxeme.

jeffreybpetersen[1:24 AM]Do you always hold a copy of your personal taxeme or can it be passed away and only reappear in your set of taxemes when your set is exhausted?

johan.nygren9 [1:24 AM] always hold a copy

jeffreybpetersen [1:25 AM] So any taxeme you would inherit that has an equal or greater rate than your personal taxeme is essentially destroyed. (edited)

johan.nygren9 [1:25 AM] its silent, dormant

jeffreybpetersen [1:26 AM] Is there any way for it to become active again?

johan.nygren9 [1:26 AM] you might change your tax-rate and they might become active again

jeffreybpetersen [1:26 AM] Ah, I didn’t think of that.

johan.nygren9 [1:26 AM] if you raise your tax-rate above that of the dormant inherited taxeme

jeffreybpetersen [1:28 AM] And then the taxes are always the proportion of transactions that the receiver pays to tax collection?

jeffreybpetersen[1:28 AM]As opposed to being an additional amount that the sender has to pay on top of the base transaction.

jeffreybpetersen[1:29 AM]Like if I paid you 2 ETH and you had a 50% taxeme active then you would get 1 ETH and 1 ETH would go to tax collections?

johan.nygren9 [1:30 AM] yes

johan.nygren9[1:30 AM]proportion is easiest

johan.nygren9[1:30 AM]both work

jeffreybpetersen [1:31 AM] I agree, it’s a lot more intuitive than typical taxes.

jeffreybpetersen[1:31 AM]Being able to forward taxes immediately does a lot to help simplify things.

jeffreybpetersen[1:32 AM]I think I’ve got the algorithm down for how taxemes work.

jeffreybpetersen[1:33 AM]I’m curious what your ideas are for managing the collected taxes in the long run?

jeffreybpetersen [1:42 AM] As well as on incentives to participate.

johan.nygren9 [1:48 AM] at this moment, i’d like to just test the taxeme framework, its a lot to process at once. the original plan was to use the tax for basic income, and to distribute it based on a ​*web of consumption*​

jeffreybpetersen [1:53 AM] Ok, I know enough to put that much together.

jeffreybpetersen[1:53 AM]I’m interested in the details of how the web of consumption would work if you want to get into it.

johan.nygren9 [1:59 AM] it uses what i call ​*dividend pathways*​,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxyjt2T_nLQ

dividend flow through them, sort of like electrical currents, and the pathways get used up as dividend flow through

YouTube

How to Create Resilience

Dividend Pathways [2015]

jeffreybpetersen [2:05 AM] I’m guessing it works through creating a dividend pathway from the taxbase of a swarm to an individual who sends value into the swarm?

jeffreybpetersen[2:07 AM]And then the dividend pathways are essentially a capacity for total individually received payouts from collected taxes?

johan.nygren9 [2:09 AM] transaction tax is divided on everyone who has a dividend pathway connection. if I send you 2 ETH and your dominant taxeme is 10%, then 0.2 ETH is divided on lots and lots of people

jeffreybpetersen [2:11 AM] That would be among a set of people who have a dividend pathway specifically from me?

johan.nygren9 [2:11 AM] yes

johan.nygren9[2:12 AM]and those who have a dividend pathway from them, and those who have a dividend pathway from them

jeffreybpetersen [2:12 AM] How is the division proportioned?

johan.nygren9 [2:16 AM] the dividend pathways have a ​*weight*​, Rp, a pathway made to someone who has a 2% taxeme has an Rp of 2%, and will be less conducive to dividend then a pathway with an Rp of 5%

johan.nygren9

[2:17 AM]

Uploaded an image: swarm-redistribution

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jeffreybpetersen [2:19 AM] Which taxeme determines the weight? The taxeme active in the transaction that formed the pathway? The personal taxeme of the sender? The currently active taxeme of the sender?

johan.nygren9 [2:20 AM] the taxeme active in the transaction that formed the pathway

jeffreybpetersen [2:23 AM] So when you pay taxes you’d distribute them evenly by weight among all dividend pathways leading out from yourself?

johan.nygren9 [2:25 AM] think of it as running an electrical current through pathways with varying resistance. a pathway with 2% Rp that is down-streams from one with 1,5% Rp will receive the same current as the 1,5 % Rp did

johan.nygren9[2:25 AM](see animation)

jeffreybpetersen [2:26 AM] Ah, that explains it.

jeffreybpetersen[2:28 AM]What happens when there are multiple streams from A to B? Such as A to C to B and A to D to B?

johan.nygren9 [2:35 AM] A to C (or D) to B will block A to D (or C) from continuing to B

jeffreybpetersen [6:48 AM] I’m guessing you’d take the maximum of the two?

johan.nygren9 [8:09 AM] mm, path of least resistance