Sex–The Highest Pleasure in a Rascal Culture

They do not even know what knowledge is. To these fools and rascals, knowledge means sex. That is their knowledge. Advancement of knowledge means how to enjoy sex. How to take shelter of abortion–child killing. And how to perfect their contraceptive method. The whole thing is on the basis of sex. That’s all. They do not know anything except these things. They know that after sex, there is so much botheration.

This exchange between His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada and some of his disciples took place on October 18, 1975, during a morning walk in Johannesburg, South Africa.

Disciple:Srila Prabhupada, people sometimes criticize, “Your Vedic culture was most solidly established in India.And India is now considered relatively poor and unfortunate.So why should we respect the Vedic culture?”

Srila Prabhupada:The thing is, when you Westerners went to India, you curbed the original Vedic culture down.The people in India could not take to your rascal Western culture, and thanks to you, they have lost their own culture.This is India’s bad luck.The Britishers did not teach them how to actually take up the Western culture, but they killed the Eastern culture.You understand?

Disciple:Yes.

Srila Prabhupada: Now India has no position. She cannot take to the Western culture fully, and she has lost her own culture.This is India’s bad luck.The Britishers never taught Indians how to become actually Westernized.No.They were not giving them sufficient education.Especially in the beginning, they were very much against giving the Indians higher education.They wanted some clerks to conduct their affairs‑some third-class, fourth-class men for their mercantile and government bureaucracies.

“Educated” meant ABCD.That’s all. “Let the Indian people know ABCD and take fifty, sixty rupees’ salary, and then go home to their little neighborhoods outside the city and return the next day on the train.Let them work hard here in our city and get just enough money to maintain themselves.”

Nothing more.No money, no education, no real knowledge of industry.TheIndian people were not taught properly.In America, for instance, I see the factories, and the arrangement is so nice.But go to those Indian factories‑it is hell.Hell.Simply hell.The Britishers exploited the Indians, and the mercantile class of India‑they have learned simply how to exploit.

Disciple:Exploit their own people.

Srila Prabhupada:That’s all.Formerly, the Manchester people were exploiting the Indians.And now the Ahmedabad people‑‑they have learned how to exploit.That’s all.And the government is satisfied, because the exploiters pay taxes: “Never mind.The workers may go on suffering.”This is going on.And the Indian people have lost their own culture.They have been taught how to drink alcohol, how to eat flesh.

Aside from all this, the Indian people cannot work as hard as the Western people can work.The hot climate does not allow.India’s climate is good for living peacefully, not working so hard, and instead, engaging the brain in spiritual advancement.That is India’s gift.Her people are not meant for hard work.

Actually, hard work is not required for anyone.This is animal civilization‑simply to work very hard.If a man simply works hard like an animal, then what is the difference between the man and an animal?If a man has to work hard like an animal, then what is the difference?Here in the Western countries, their climate is more suitable for heavy industry, and as one would expect, they are being taught to work very hard like animals, and they do that.Therefore, materially they have become so‑called advanced, to the point that spiritually, they are committing suicide.Is it not?

Disciple:This is true.

Srila Prabhupada:Materially advanced; spiritually suicidal.Am I right or wrong?

Disciple: Right, Srila Prabhupada. Another dimension also comes to mind. In your commentary on Srimad‑Bhagavatam, you write that if people want to increase their material advancement, then they should also increase their sex lives.

Srila Prabhupada:Yes.Without sex one cannot be materially enthusiastic.And if you stop sex, then you become spiritually advanced.This is the secret.If you stop sex, then you will become spiritually advanced, and if you indulge in sex, then you will become materially enthusiastic.That is the difference between Western and Eastern culture.The whole Eastern culture is based on how to stop sex, and here in the Western countries‑‑how to increase sex.They are eating meat, eggs, drinking wine.These things will increase sex desire.And as soon as you get a very satisfactory sex life, you become enthusiastic to work hard.Therefore for karmis, or those seeking material advancement, marriage is necessary, because without sex they cannot work.And for those seeking spiritual advancement, sex is prohibited.

Actually, in this Western culture, people do not know the science of life. For them, “life” means this body.Their life is this body.That means they donot know what life is.After all, when the living person has gone, the body that they thought he was‑‑it is lying there.They are very proud of their scientific advancement, but in reality, do they know who the person was?They cannot explain.This is their ignorance.And yet they are very proud of their advancement.

But once this person’s life span has come to an end, can they bring him back to life?That they cannot do.That means the whole basic principle of their so‑called culture is ignorance.Mudho yam nabhijanati:Krsna says, “Fools and rascals can never understand the soul or the Supreme Soul.”And moghasa mogha-karmano mogha-jnana vicetasah:“Their material cleverness‑their so-called knowledge‑leaves them spiritually baffled and bewildered.”Why? Raksasim asurim caiva prakrtim mohinim sritah:“Those who take the shelter not of My divine nature but of prakrti, the material nature, become so bewilderedthat they do not know life’s real aim.”Moghasa:“They are utterly baffled.” And therefore, mogha‑karmano:“Whatever they are doing‑‑that will be useless.” Again, mogha‑jnana:in this so‑called advanced culture, there is no spiritual knowledge.So actually there is no knowledge.

Disciple:So with their advancement of knowledge…

Srila Prabhupada:What advancement of knowledge?

Disciple:… they are increasing their sex lives, but if they were really advanced in knowledge, they would be decreasing their sex lives.

Srila Prabhupada:Yes. They do not even know what knowledge is.To these fools and rascals, knowledge means sex. That is their knowledge. Advancement of knowledge means how to enjoy sex.How to take shelter of abortion‑child killing. And how to perfect their contraceptive method.The whole thing is on the basis of sex. That’s all.They do not know anything except these things.They know that after sex, there is so much botheration.But they cannot give sex up.Therefore, they make all these arrangements:take contraceptives, or kill the child.

That means their whole so‑called civilization, their whole culture, is based on sex.That’s all.But yan maithunadi grhamedhi sukham hi tuccham kanduyanena karayor iva duhkha duhkham:“Sex is like the rubbing of two hands to relieve an itch.Those with no spiritual knowledge consider this itching the greatest happiness, although actually, from start to finish, the whole business is distress‑‑and it is most abominable.”Is that pleasure?These supposedly advanced rascals think it is pleasure to unite the urine-passing parts.[Laughter.]And we have to believe this is pleasure‑a standard of pleasure utterly third‑class, fourth‑class.Yan maithunadi grhamedhi sukham hi tuccham.Very abominable.Tuccham:the Vedic literature says, “Sex is mostabominable.” And yet these fools take it as the highest goal, and they make all sorts of elaborate arrangements for this abominable pleasure.

When dogs have sex, everyone knows their whole “enjoyment” is abominable and insignificant.Therefore, dogs are allowed to do it on the street.And people can see it.Is that a very nice scene?Yet when the same abominable and insignificant thing is done by the human beings, they are taking it that”This is the highest.”This is the basic principle of their happiness.That’s all.Mohini.Mohini.Captivation by the opposite sex.

And this is real captivation.For instance, nature has already made women’s faces, breasts, and hips beautiful, their singing and talking and walking all very attractive.And now, thanks to this rascal culture, the women are walking around virtually naked.This is going on.The whole thing is based on sex, and that is tuccham, most abominable.Prakrtim mohinim sritah:people areare being taught to take shelter of the material nature’s potency for bewilderment.So it will take them three hundred births to understand that this sexpleasure is actually abominable. Therefore, in Bhagavad‑gita Krsna says, bahunam janmanam ante:“A rascal gains the wisdom to surrender to Me only after many, many births.” Not that immediately, simply by hearing our Bhagavad-gita lecture, people will give this abominable pleasure up.It will take many, many births to understand.

If you stop sex, then you become spiritually advanced.This is the secret.If you stop sex, then you will become spiritually advanced, and if you indulge in sex, then you will become materially enthusiastic.That is the difference between Western and Eastern culture.The whole Eastern culture is based on how to stop sex, and here in the Western countries‑how to increase sex.

In the Vedic system, sex is allowed only for begetting children. In other words, restriction. Sex is allowed, but with great restriction–under religious rules and regulations.

There are so many things, such as the garbhadana or seed-giving ceremony. The first principle is, even when sex is employed properly, for begetting a child; it is not undertaken secretly, without anyone else’s knowledge.Garbhadana-samskara. There should be a ceremonial function.All the brahmanas and relatives come, and everyone knows, “Very soon this man is going to have sex for begetting a child.”There is a public heralding–not that the sexual activity is done secretly, like cats and dogs.

Actually, even cats and dogs do not have sex secretly.Human beings do it secretly because they do not want the botheration of having a child. Therefore, their “scientific advancement” especially means how to kill the child:how to take and distribute contraceptive pills, how to arrange for abortions, and how to allow the young people, “Yes, you go on having sex, but take these pills so that you may not be bothered.”

Why not stop all the botheration of sex altogether? That they cannot, because they are animals.Because they have created an animal civilization, they cannot escape all this botheration.Kandutive manivasi visaheta dhirah.Why don’t they teach people to become dhirah, sober‑‑”Let me tolerate this itching sensation”‑brahmacari?

Their teaching is not good: “You should have sex repeatedly”–and then suffer the consequences. And to avoid suffering the consequences, people become implicated in more and more suffering.Bahu‑duhkha bhajah:after sex–licit or illicit–the consequence is suffering.Even when the sex is licit, then you still have to take care of your wife, and you also have to take care of the children, always in anxiety about their food and clothing, their education,their upliftment, and so on and so forth–always undergoing suffering.

And if the sex is illicit, then you have to undergo these sufferings:because you commit the sin of killing the child by contraceptives or abortion, as a result, in your next life you must be killed.And in the mean time, you have to go to the doctor and pay his exorbitant fees, and so on.So where is the relief from suffering?Whether illicit or licit, sex means you have to suffer.

But trpyanti neha krpana bahu‑duhkha bhajah.These rascals–once they have had sex, they cannot be done with it:”That’s all right. I have already got one child to take care of.””No. I must have sex again and again.”

You would think that once someone had committed sinful activities such as killing the child in the womb, then he would say, “All right. Stop it now.” “No. Again.” Trpyanti neha krpana:such a miserly person is never satisfied. He knows that following his sinful activity, there will be suffering. Still, he’ll not stop this sinfulness.

Therefore, a man should be educated to become sober:”Let me tolerate this itching. That’s all. I’ll save so much trouble.” This is knowledge. To become a rascal and then more and more of a rascal and then suffer–is that civilization? Does civilization mean simply making people rascals, so that they can suffer and commit spiritual suicide?

Just tell people that they have created this civilization of “Become a rascal and then suffer.”And all their sufferings are nature’s arrangement.She says, “You living entity–you have forgotten Krsna. All right, now you must come under my control. You have become a rascal.Now suffer.”Daivi hy esa gunamayi mama maya duratyaya.Krsna says, “My material nature is very severe, very punishing.”Why she is doing that?She is teaching us, “Surrender to Krsna.Otherwise, you will go on suffering like this.”This is nature’s way.

But the rascal–because he is a rascal–does not know that prakrteh kriya-manani gunaih karmani: “I am under the full control of prakrti, material nature, and her business is to keep me a rascal and make me suffer.”And yet these rascals are thinking themselves advanced in education.

Disciple: But they will say that this so‑called suffering is actually pleasure.

Srila Prabhupada: That’s all right. Go on with your “pleasure.”Who is stopping you?Enjoy this “pleasure.”But if everything is pleasure, then why are you taking up a countermeasure?Why do you want to kill the child?Pleasure?Why do you take up the contraceptive method–if this whole business is pleasure?

That is the proof of what rascals they are.Mudha nabhijanati: Krsna says, “Rascals can never understand what is what.”Try to understand why Krsna hassaid so many times, mudha … mayayapahrta‑jnana:“These people are rascals, whose so-called knowledge is stolen by illusion.” Krsna, the Supreme Lord, is speaking like that, so there must be some meaning. Human civilization means giving relief to the human being.Comfortable life–not repeating the business of the animals.That is human civilization.

Disciple:Srila Prabhupada, in everyday life we see that only the devotees are somewhat free from anxiety.

Srila Prabhupada:Yes.That’s a fact. We have little anxieties, simply because we have to deal with this rascal world.Otherwise, we have no anxiety.But we have taken this mission, to go and approach people and tell them the truth. Therefore, we have got a little anxiety.Otherwise, there is no question of anxiety. Because we are mixing with these rascals‑‑and we have to do that, we who have taken up this mission‑‑therefore, we have some little anxiety.That is also not very much. But in any case, you must know, the whole world is full of rascals and fools.That is not an exaggeration. Eh?Or have you got a different opinion?

Disciple:No.

Srila Prabhupada:Hm?What do you think?Do you agree?

Disciple:They are mudhas.

Srila Prabhupada (laughing):Our verdict is final:”All rascals and fools.” Therefore, when I ask these rascals, “Any question?”, they are stopped. (Laughter.) “Come on.Any question?”What they will question?I challenge them, “Any question?” They know that “We have been proved rascals.”

During my lecture last night, I quoted Krsna’s chastising words in Bhagavad-gita.Asocyan anvasocas tvam prajna‑vadams:“While speaking supposedly learned words, you are dwelling upon the temporary material body, which does not deserve so much attention.” And I said, “This is the position of everyone. Everyone is a fool, a rascal, ignoring the real problem of life.”

And nobody challenged–“Why are you calling everyone a rascal?” In Montreal one Bengali gentleman did inquire, “Swamiji, you are using very strong words.`Fools and rascals.’ Can it be explained otherwise?” And I replied, “No. This is the only word–that you are all rascals and fools.This is the only word that can be used.” (Laughter.)

Disciple:Srila Prabhupada, you once said that anyone who has a material body is a rascal.

Srila Prabhupada:A rascal–that’s all.And yet these rascals are trying to make this body permanent, even though they know they cannot make it permanent. You cannot make this material body permanent. You are not allowed to keep it, nor will you ever be allowed.Still, punah punas carvita‑carvananam:repeatedly, these fools go on trying.What is impossible, what cannot be allowed–they are trying for it.After all, how can this material body be made permanent? But these fools say, “Yes, we are trying.Now disease has been reduced.Now we are living a few more years.” These are their foolish words. They will never say, “No, it is impossible.”They will go on heralding their rascal endeavors.

Disciple:Srila Prabhupada, it appears these people just can’t accept that all their endeavors to make the body permanent will be defeated.

Srila Prabhupada:Yes.Of course, they are seeing, they are experiencing thattheir endeavors are doomed.History never says that any man has become immortal. Even a great demon like Hiranyakasipu could not become immortal.A great demon like Hiranyakasipu–he could not become immortal. And what to speak of these tiny demons?One kick is sufficient to kill them.(To be continued.)