You know that look? That smoldering glance exchanged between lovers, the one that makes you think, "Damn, they really love each other"?

When I caught up with Daisy and Jordan, known collectively as HereOnNeptune, we only spoke over the phone. But I could feel those glances being exchanged in their voices.

A love like that is powerful. And if I could hear it over the phone, you'll be able to read it in our interview, and you'll definitely be able to see it on-screen.

Read on for unique perspectives on orientation, romance and language as they relate to trans and non-binary identities in porn, and the world over:

Andy: Let’s start with your story, how the two of you met and how you got involved in the industry.



Daisy: It's a pretty common story, but we met on OkCupid. And right from the first day, right from there, we clicked. He's a weirdo and I'm a weirdo. So it was a really fast connection that we made.

But honestly, we were kind of in a rough spot and we were kind of looking for different ways to make something out of ourselves. I had heard about the model program with Pornhub. We had looked into it and we made a little video and tested out from there. But from our first video, there were many people who really, really liked our stuff and it just became its own monster from there.





What do you like to do outside of work?



Jordan: I like to play music. We produce music and play guitar. That's kind of been my thing since high school. So I've just been doing that on and off whenever I get the chance to be creative.



Daisy: I often just listen and sit and play with Jordan. But the majority of what we do is not so much filming and editing, it’s sitting and talking to people on our Patreon, talking to people from Pornhub - it's kind of become our own full time thing now.





You recently hit a million views on Pornhub! Congratulations for that. What factors do you think have contributed to your success there?



Daisy: Well, I think in all honesty that I am a unique person. I'm a very specific type of person - especially with my body, me being trans. I think that opened up a whole new market for us. But also, not the typical kind of porn. It’s not people who just met, who just decided to have sex – there’s real love and passion between us. That is something that has really carried us through is how our love for each other shows in our work. It's not just hot, heavy sex, it's also intimate and special.





How important is social media to you for marketing your content?



Daisy: Social media is a lot to handle. But it seems fun. Honestly, so many people are so kind, and so many people reach out just to say nice things, you know, "Hope you guys are doing well. We love your content." Social media opens up a whole new world of friends that you get to talk to at any given time. And so it's really helped us to propel into a completely different world. If we had started what we're doing at a different time in the world, say, 10, 20 years ago, we'd probably be in a completely different place.





It helps foster that personal connection that you talked about before, not only with each other, but with your fans as well.



Daisy: Yeah, 100%.





What changes do you think we're gonna see in the industry this year?



Jordan: That's a tough question. I honestly, I do see a lot of more homemade stuff coming out this year. And I think maybe even less heteronormative porn will be considered more mainstream. I don't think the heteronormative porn is gonna go anywhere any time soon, but I think that people looking to expand their horizons are definitely gonna look at porn as the very first avenue for something that's not heteronormative, that's more in the LGBT world.



Daisy: More experimental.



Jordan: More experimental stuff. I think that's coming this year, I'm not sure. We'll see.





Like an extension of the “porn as self-discovery” concept, which has happened since porn has existed. But you think it'll open up - maybe people will be able to explore their own orientation and sexuality a little bit more in that way?



Daisy: Yeah.



Jordan: Definitely.

"People are surprised that we’re not as promiscuous as they think."





And what changes should we see this year?



Daisy: That's a good question. We're trying to be the change that we wanna see. And so I think we'll see porn that is more caring, and more content that is special. And that doesn't necessarily mean that people need to be in a relationship to be making porn together, and for it to be special. But we’re just hoping for more intimate connections.



But I also think just very basically, I would love to see women of color and men of color who are pornstars, because I feel like especially black men and women are used almost as fetishes, just as trans people are. I mean, when you see a black girl having sex with a guy in porn, it's typically almost always a white guy. And the same thing with black men, you typically only see them have, you know, a huge black dude with a tiny little white girl. So I think opening up and seeing everyone as a star, as opposed to just a tool for pleasure.





So moving away from marginalized identities as a fetish, and towards just being people. I agree with you so much.



Daisy: Exactly.





What are some things people don't realize about being a trans model?



Daisy: Our number one misconception is that people don't realize that this is my husband and I doing this. I think people, when they think porn, they think of like the typical, you know, going on set, meeting the person that day, having sex with them. And so that's our number one misconception and we’re trying to change that.



People are surprised that we’re not as promiscuous as they think.





What are some of the problems with the ways that people perceive and interact with trans models?



Daisy: I'll be 100% honest with you, I have only had a few problems. But I think it's the same thing with any marginalized people. I think there are people who view our stuff and genuinely enjoy our content and the connection that we have. That being said, there are also people who do watch our content, because it is kind of a kinky little secret to them. And so I think that's kind of the hardest thing is not necessarily dealing with those people, but trying to show those people that it doesn't just have to be a kinky little secret.



Jordan: Yeah, I think the biggest challenge is the whole thing about it being a secret, something that you should be ashamed of. You should embrace and feel proud of who you are, no matter what body parts you have. And if you're with somebody that has something that's not exactly the same as everybody else, there's nothing shameful about it and I don't think that should be kept a secret. That’s something problematic, and I would like to see it change, but I think that we're heading the right direction.





Similar question, but not just about models; what about the ways that people perceive and interact with trans people in general, outside of the industry?



Daisy: You know in a sitcom, there will be a token black character who's always making jokes? I sometimes feel that way for people. I feel as though being associated with me or being friends with me sometimes people kind of wear that as a badge of openmindedness. Like, "Well, my trans friend said…" you know.

I have friends who look at me, and it's no different and I'm just another girl to them. But there are other friends who kind of use me to advance their social status. Some people use it for their gain and a lot of people only see [being trans] as freaky and weird. And because we don't have enough representation of trans people in the media, I think people have a very skewed idea of who we are as people.





What can your fans do to treat you with more respect and understanding?



Daisy: Stop sending me dick pics.





I wish they'd stop sending them to me too.



Daisy: Yeah, it's ridiculous. But, honestly, we haven't had many issues. A lot of the people who reach out to us are like, genuinely sweet people. And it’s not always just, "Oh, you have nice tits."



Jordan: I don't know if that's because of the platform that we typically like choose for interacting. When we started off marketing our stuff, it was on Reddit. And I don't know if that was because of Reddit specifically, as the type of people that go on to Reddit that are more open and more friendly than you would find on say, Twitter. But we haven't had any much disrespect, more just love and support.



Daisy: It's been really cool.

"A lot of tube sites used to have trans women under the gay category, and that's not necessarily correct."

I have heard from some trans models in the past, a bit of a divide about the politics of trans being a category. So at Pornhub, we recently changed the uploader, so that transgender is now listed as an orientation rather than a category. Some folks that I have spoken to have said that they actually felt safer when their content was nested within a trans-specific category, because it was only people that were really seeking it out that would come across them. What do you think about that?



Daisy: I have noticed that transgender is listed as an orientation. And I personally think that that is really cool. I mean, I would love for some day for it to be fully integrated, for everyone to just see the porn that they want. But I know that people are into certain things and only wanna see certain things. So I think it's helpful, honestly, to even have it considered in its own orientation besides just straight and just gay. Because a lot of tube sites used to have trans women specifically under the gay category, and that's not necessarily correct.

I think it opens up for a lot more people to be able to just see new stuff. Being able to use my trans identity as a positive thing has been really, really cool. It’s only helping us propel us forward.



Jordan: And in the long term, just framing it as its own sexual orientation is helpful because it helps people kind of realize that there's other options beyond just even being straight or being gay.





Is it problematic at all for it to be considered an orientation when it's really more of an identity? Or does it still cover the same bases?



Jordan: In terms of porn, I think it's fine as an orientation, because you go to Pornhub to look for your own orientation of what you like. So if you're oriented towards transgender women or men, then that's a perfectly acceptable porn preference.



Daisy: I agree. Completely disregarding porn, like the whole world, there is not really an orientation that is specific for trans people. You can be transamorous, but “Trans” isn’t an orientation so to speak.



But I think it is really cool that people can search for things that they're curious about, and for it to not be something that's a secret. I think now that it's something that's so out in the open, it's cool that it's not just some subcategory hidden all the way at the bottom of the page. So I think it's really cool.





What's something you wish you had known when you started modeling?



Daisy: Whoa. I wish that I had just taken a class on how to market myself, or gotten some tips from somebody. The number one battle when you start out is figuring out what you wanna make and what your angle. The way you wanna present yourself to the world is its own whole journey that you go through as you make content and as you talk to more people and as you learn. So knowing exactly what I wanted to do would have helped me so much more. We’ve had to switch gears and learn from so many mistakes to get to where we are now.





If you weren't creating adult content, what would you be doing with your life today?



Daisy: Being miserable. But seriously, we look forward to doing this eventually in the future, but I think we would be making content about us together as a couple, about our own personal lives. We're both quite creative people. And we're both, as I said, weirdos. We have very unique minds. We've gotten so many comments from people on Pornhub who wanna see stuff that is not just adult content. They wanna see more about our relationship and more about our personal lives. And so I think if we weren't doing that, we'd still be making content some kind of way.

"The words that we use to identify or label people can be particularly harmful."





The discourse and language around trans people in general is changing - what are some words or phrases or language that people use, that they don't realize is harmful?



Daisy: Well, I think the number one word probably is tranny. Words like that, tranny, the F word which I choose not to say, all of those are words that people aren't necessarily educated on. For example, I have a very, very supportive family and I'm very lucky and blessed to have the family and the support system that I do. But my grandma thought that tranny was just a cute nickname.

I was telling her how people think that that's a terrible word. She's like, "Oh, I thought it was just a cute little nickname," Stuff as innocent as that can really turn into something else. Especially words that are used negatively like tranny, or she-male. I hate that word. The words that we use to identify or label people can be particularly harmful. Labels are very divisive.



I think that they separate people a lot, and there is often confusion on both sides of the spectrum about what labels are ok to use and which ones aren’t. So people don't even really know what's good and what's not.

There was a study that showed that 85% of Americans do not personally know a transgender person. And so it all goes back to representation. And that all goes back to what we have in the media, because what we have in the media is all that most people know. And so I think it's about tackling that and opening up our stories as more normal as opposed to these anomalies.





If there's anybody reading who is interested in educating themselves on this type of language, this type of discourse, do you have any resources to recommend to them?



Jordan: There's a great YouTube channel by the name of ContraPoints. She's a trans woman and she's very political as well. There's a specific video about dysphoria that she has. There's another one that's just about pronouns. But there's a whole catalog of things that are trans-specific. I don't really get too much into politics but I'd say that's probably a good place to start.



Daisy: There are also the token trans people who are famous in media. Look more into Laverne Cox who is so eloquent. She's so intelligent. Same thing with Janet Mock. She has an amazing book called "Redefining Realness," which is just heart wrenching, and so real, and so honest. And even opening yourself up to different kinds of media. There's a new show called "Pose" on FX, which is the largest cast of transgender people. There's new things open especially for trans people every single day. And so there's ways you can get educated in all places, on YouTube, on TV, in books. There's all different things, you just have to look for it.





If you had the whole world's attention for 60 seconds, what would you tell them?



Daisy: I’d say, even if it sounds stupid or cheesy, that love is the most important thing. Love is the most important human emotion, and our ability to love and our ability to be compassionate and empathetic towards people can change so many things. You know, some people wanna just go to Mars, to escape the next world war and escape all the hate and division in the world. But the way that we can truly escape our issues and overcome inequality, and all these things, is to truly love and be compassionate with other people and to not be so divisive. It’s not about labels, we truly all are just human beings. We all have the same flesh and blood.



Jordan: The one thing that I wanted to add is just to try to get people to stop focusing on their differences, and see what little similarities there are. Because there's a lot more small similarities than the big differences that we all choose to focus on a day-to-day basis. And I think that once people get into the mindset of, “this is just another human being that I might disagree with based on some political views, or based on whatever I don't like about them,” that's the first step to understanding each other.

"Trans models also shouldn’t sell themselves short."





Do you have any advice for up and coming trans models who are just starting out?



Daisy: To make an impact in the adult content world, or in anything, you need to genuinely know who you are and what you wanna do. Trans models also shouldn’t sell themselves short. I've gotten very, very lucky to have a loving, wonderful husband, who supports me through everything, and who doesn't treat me any different than any other woman or person. But I think that if I hadn't had him, it would have been easier for me to just take whatever I can get. And I think that as trans people, we kind of take the support that we can get, and we take whatever we can get, as long as people aren't trying to hurt us or as long as people aren't saying mean things to us. We kind of just take whatever comes our way.



Jordan: We need to be more selective.



Daisy: Demanding respect is more of what trans models can learn to do. Because I think that we aren't offered that enough, and so I think it's our job to start asking for it.





It shouldn't be your job, but it might be for now.



Daisy: Exactly.





Do you have any heroes in the adult industry?



Daisy: [To Jordan] Don't look at me like that! [Laughs] There are trans models who I really, really enjoy to watch their content and I think that they make so much more than just porn. I think, for example, Domino Presley - she makes really great videos, but she also makes funny content and you can see her personality in her work. Same thing with like Chanel Santini. She is very funny and very popular. And she kind of uses that to empower. And I think that that is a really cool way to go about things.





Are there any upcoming projects you wanna tell us about?



Daisy: We’re working on our own non-adult channel, where we're gonna be posting more personal stuff about our relationship and our tasks, our lives, our everything. And we're also kind of looking into doing our own little talk show that I think is gonna be really cool. Not even just for trans content, but just for anything and everything, for politics, music. We have some really big things coming up. And I'm really excited to see how we can tackle the world.





Anything else that you wanted to touch on before we wrap it up?



Daisy: I just wanna say thank you, especially to you and to Modelhub. I think it's really cool that literally the most famous tube site in all of the internet is using its platform to help the people who are making content. And I think that that's amazing that Modelhub is really looking to help content creators get the revenue and the money and the services that they deserve for working as hard as we do. And so I'm just really thankful for that.



Follow Daisy and Jordan on Pornhub, Modelhub, Twitter and Instagram.





If you're interested in learning more about trans identities, discourage and language, check out ContraPoints on YouTube, and also considering reading this progressive style guide for more on how to discuss and write about various types of people, things, sexualities and identities.