@buttersdaman000: so you got from the movie (potentially for kids) that the joker and Harley might be swingers or hes a cuck? I guess if you can make that jump reasonably, it's not unreasonable for me to jump the other way and get that she's his possession. @prospero_locke said:

Yes, the movie that "for kids", that also features a man burning his family to death after his wife confronts him about selling drugs and murdering other gang members. But for some reason, it's a stretch for me to think that the relationship between two crazy people may be a little kinky? Lol

And, do you think it's more a stretch for me to interpret the way I do, or is more a stretch for you to single out that scene to prove that the Joker sees HQ as an object, then ignore the questions raised by Joker risking/sacrificing his life for a person he sees as nothing but an object?

"Oh Harley, I only see you as my possession, but let me sacrifice my life in favor of yours as I go down with this Helicopter instead of even trying to save myself"

"Oh Harley, I only see you as my possession, but let me spend the entire movie clearly distraught that you aren't by my side"

"Oh Harley, I only see you as my possession, but let me willingly risk my life by going into a clear war-zone just to save you"

"Oh Harley, I only see you as my possession, but let me break into this maximum security prison just to break you out"

What you guys don't understand is that the only people Joker feels ANY sort of feelings toward is Batman and himself. He's not going to bother with Harley if it's too much trouble. It's out of sight, out of mind with her. Yet, that's clearly not what's portrayed in this film. After she becomes HQ, there's no more mental or physical abuse. Honestly, I wouldn't even call the interactions with Dr. Harley abuse. The Joker took REVENGE in the hospital with the electric shock treatment. He IGNORED a crazy chick he didn't feel like messing with. And he tried to KILL said crazy chick before realzing he might like her. That's not abuse. To abuse someone this stuff has to happen regularly, and ignoring someone does not count as abuse. After he and Harley started going together instances of mistreatment stopped. So where's the abuse????

You latch on to the one club scene where it looked as if Harley and her kinky self was completely down with a little swinging as proof of mistreatment/abuse. Yet, it's not at all. How hard would it have been to add a little force in that scene if that was what Ayer wanted to convey? How hard would it have been to include the scenes of abuse they shot? It wouldn't have been hard is the only answer. The answer as to why they didn't though, is simple. It's not what they wanted in their movie. And because they didn't want scenes of abuse and darkness, they removed the elements of why the HQ/Joker relationship is sick. It looks like a twisted, kinky love story instead of a one-sided abusve relationship.

Even the tv show, meant for KIDS, did it better

Loading Video...

You can feel that backhand at 1:20

The pg-13 SS didn't even come close to conveying this level of stuff

SS Joker luvs Harley