



I measured the time from which the first mine appears in the upper left corner, to the time the final mine appears in the upper left corner to determine the throw speed. I recorded at 60 FPS and measured the duration frame-by-frame.



Test 1:

Ball Lightning + Blastchain Mine Support (lv1/0q)

+70% Mine Throwing Speed Modifier

16 mines thrown in 2.350s

Mine Throw Duration: 0.146875s

https://gfycat.com/lividellipticalacouchi



Test 2:

Ball Lightning + Blastchain Mine Support (lv1/0q) + Minefield Support (lv1/0q)

-40.5% Mine Throwing Speed Modifier

4 sets of 5 mines thrown in 2.367s

Mine Throw Duration: 0.59175s

https://gfycat.com/plushhalfeyelashpitviper



With a 65% less Mine Throwing Speed modifier of Minefield Support, we would expect to see a mine throwing time of 0.146875 / ( 1 - 0.65 ) = 0.419643s. Instead, we see a throw time that is 41.01% longer.



Edit: I've also tested this with a 19/20 Minefield Support gem, the throw time is approximately 40% longer in that case as well. Minefield seems to be adding extra animation time to mine throws that causes mine to be thrown slower, even more slowly than the throw speed penalty on the gem would suggest.I measured the time from which the first mine appears in the upper left corner, to the time the final mine appears in the upper left corner to determine the throw speed. I recorded at 60 FPS and measured the duration frame-by-frame.Ball Lightning + Blastchain Mine Support (lv1/0q)+70% Mine Throwing Speed Modifier16 mines thrown in 2.350sMine Throw Duration: 0.146875sBall Lightning + Blastchain Mine Support (lv1/0q) + Minefield Support (lv1/0q)-40.5% Mine Throwing Speed Modifier4 sets of 5 mines thrown in 2.367sMine Throw Duration: 0.59175sWith a 65% less Mine Throwing Speed modifier of Minefield Support, we would expect to see a mine throwing time of 0.146875 / ( 1 - 0.65 ) = 0.419643s. Instead, we see a throw time that is 41.01% longer.Edit: I've also tested this with a 19/20 Minefield Support gem, the throw time is approximately 40% longer in that case as well. Last edited by Fearmonger on Jan 8, 2020, 9:05:56 PM Last bumped on Jan 23, 2020, 6:03:29 PM Posted by

Fearmonger

on on Quote this Post

Speculation as to what's happening here.



Notably, when Minefield Support is socketed the mines from each throw are thrown in sequence. The interval between each throw in the sequence is equal to 10% of the expected total throw time. This "10% of an animation"'s delay, 4 times, produces a total animation whose duration is 40% longer.



This seems to parallel the unsealing of seals generated via the Unleash Support. When a spell is cast, any seals are consumed by appending a casting animation to the original cast that is 10% of the original animation's duration.



Confusingly, this behavior does not occur when using a skill supported by Swift Assembly support. When a proc occurs, any extra mines are thrown instantly at the same time as the first, seemingly with no difference in animation duration.



Now, its possible that this "extra animation" is an intended mechanic. It makes minefield vs swift assembly an actual competitive decision (assembly gives more mines/sec, but minefield is more consistent) and seems to indicate that the developer's had this "extra animation" mechanic in mind when balancing the gems. The parallel to unleash is also a bit uncanny.



Ultimately, its very unclear whether this is intended or not because I've looked in several places and found no documentation of this mechanic whatsoever. It's not explained in-game, it was not mentioned in the pre-blight game balance announcement, it was not mentioned in the 3.7 patch notes, it was not mentioned in the 3.8 patch notes, it is not mentioned on the wiki, Path of Building has this interaction wrong, and I can't find any discussion of this on these forums or on reddit. You would think that if it was intended it would be explained somewhere. Posted by

Fearmonger

on on Quote this Post

You did good work getting the information frame by frame. I hope we get un answer, positively or negatively. But it's a lot of less QoL and dmg we are getting if that is the case. Posted by

MtNak

on on Quote this Post

yes, THIS is why my build is garbage Posted by

01Jeff

on on Quote this Post



"

Minefield support gem at level 20 should be reducing your mine throwing speed by 60% and combined with the four additional mines per throw; give you 100% more mines thrown per second.



Using a macro I time how long it takes to throw 15 mines.

With 0 increased throwing speed It takes 3550ms to throw 15 mines without minefield and 2100ms with. At 100% increased speed 1770ms and 1040ms.



This is only a total increase of 70% instead of the expected 100%.

Video example of testing:



Minefield support gem at level 20 should be reducing your mine throwing speed by 60% and combined with the four additional mines per throw; give you 100% more mines thrown per second.Using a macro I time how long it takes to throw 15 mines.With 0 increased throwing speed It takes 3550ms to throw 15 mines without minefield and 2100ms with. At 100% increased speed 1770ms and 1040ms.This is only a total increase of 70% instead of the expected 100%.Video example of testing: https://streamable.com/o2smo Here's data from my old reports. Last edited by 1avatar1 on Jan 9, 2020, 4:03:49 AM Posted by

1avatar1

on on Quote this Post

Ever since they made the change to mines I always call minefield the new multistrike, remember that old multistrike that got you stuck into animations? I feel exactly like that playing with the new mines(minefielded), you can clearly see that you're throwing 1 by 1 in a small delay and it feels awful, maybe you are right and it was intended but fuck that! Posted by

storm159

on on Quote this Post

Noticed this in my testing of it last season as well. Reported it, didn’t see any action, maybe too many necros playing last season :p



Either way, math points to minefield being around 20% more effective dps wise than swift assembly, but in performance certainly doesnt hold true in that regard as swift assembly always wins out. Posted by

BeerLeague

on on Quote this Post

This is correct behaviour - throwing multiple mines uses the same "animation turnback" tech as reoccuring spells (from Unleash support). Stats which modify how many mines you throw should have a reminder text to clarify that they have this effect on the time taken. This will be added in a future patch. Posted by

Mark_GGG

on Grinding Gear Games on Quote this Post