David Latapie



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Hero MemberActivity: 658Merit: 500Monero Core Team United we stand, divided we fall - the coming rise of cryptofiat October 03, 2014, 06:31:26 PM

Last edit: February 07, 2015, 08:57:53 PM by David Latapie #1

Cryptoland as a whole is entering into decadence. We are resting on our laurels because BTC reached 1000 dollars and even now it is three times its 2013 ATH.



Delusion of grandeur

While we are partying, the real competition1 is readying its weapons.

What? You really think banksters will disappear, fiat will disappear, a several century-old institution (fiat currency) will disappear thanks to a 5-year old technology? That some 50 year-old people (maximum, most are in the 20-30's) could change one of the latest powers of nation-states? Even the European Union's euro has a hard time doing it and it is not that big of a change. If fiat exists for so long, it is not only because of the lack of a better technology. It is also because it suits us (mankind). "But again, truth be told...if you're looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror."



Quote from: Transhuman Space Any meme several centuries old is adaptable enough to survive

Radio was supposed to kill newspaper. TV was supposed to kill radio. Internet was supposed to kill TV. See a trend, here? Fact is this is just not how things works. Without going at length about the differences between protocol and symbol (sumbolon), let's just say that centralised money is here to stay. Sure, it will have to negociate its position with decentralised money, like newspaper did with radio and so on, but that's all.

And let me tell you: cryptofiat is a thing to come. Newspaper adapted to the rise of internet by going digital (ebook and apps), because being paper is a protocol. Providing daily written information is a symbol. Symbol don't die, protocols do.

That's the same with fiat. It is a symbol, something that unite people2. Fiat could change its protocol, like moving from arbitrary (decree, fiat) to cryptographically-enforced. Yes, cryptodollar or cryptoeuro or cryptoyuan could very much become a reality; or cryptocredit, if you buy the SF staple of one universal money - doesn't change much, except if you are in the forex or exchange office businesses.



And guess what, nation-states won't have any desire to share power with hippies/hackers using this Bitcoin thing. Once they'll realise prohibition doesn't work and cost them money3 (some are starting to understand it), they will create their own cryptofiat. Nicaragua is doing it and I know some other places are doing it too.

The best way to kill bitcoin and all is to make it irrelevant.

100% premined fiat would not even need to change money creation (a crypto can be infinitely inflationary, like most Peercoin-based cryptos or Dogecoin). On top of it, cryptofiat would make surveillance so much easier. And since blockchain has tremendous uses out of money (see



Meanwhile, what we, Cryptolanders, doing? Self-congratulation ("we're gonna kill banksters") and infightings ("my coin is better than thyne"). These are signs of decadence. The Chinese Empire decayed in the middle of the last millenium when it decided that there was nothing interesting outside of its frontiers. And we are far from being the Chinese Empire. We are digging our own hole. Narcissism of small differences. A friend used the word of "crypto-balkanization". That's exactly it.





This is a war and we are soldiers

Now, what can we do?

First, we should both not care too much about infighting (the altcoin war is also Darwinian evolution at work, it has its uses) and at the same time still care enough to remember what really matters. Speaking of that, what does really matters, mmh? You have four hours.



Second, it is easier to win if your competitor lets you win. Build your opponent a golden bridge to retreat across. If a governement can take advantage of crypto (and I already explained it can), make it so that this is a mutually-profitable agreement. Hatred only go that far; negociation goes much farther. Hey, I'm French, I know what I am talking about, we have an A-grade in Stubborness and Stupidity (Africa, Indochina...) whereas the British were much smarter.

Governement wants money and control. Let us do it whilst allowing anyone on an individual basis to opt-out. If we create the tool, it will be possible. If we let the government create it, much less.



Third, read history. Remember WIR. Remember how local currencies die when crisis are over (or sort of). Fiat won't disappear, it will adapt and there is room for non-fiat cryptocurrencies as long as it makes sense. What could an "illegitimate" currency (as in "not backed by governement") be good for? I believe that anonymity is the important thing4. You can be sure that cryptofiat will be traceable. You can also be sure also there will be a need for untraceability. A homeostatic system integrates its own opposition, that's why it is homeostatic. In simpler terms, legality has to tolerate illegality to continue to exist (which doesn't mean that tools useful for illegal action can't be used for legal actions - you do pay your coffee with some quarters, right?)



Quote from: Lord of War And while the biggest arms dealer in the world is your boss, the President of the United States - who ships more merchandise in a day than I do in a year - sometimes it's embarrassing to have his fingerprints on the guns. Sometimes he needs a freelancer like me to supply opposition forces he can't be seen supplying. You call me evil, but, unfortunately for you, I am a necessary evil. It would be embarrassing for a government to have his fingerprints on an untraceable currency - after all, if you have nothing to hide, you have no reason to refuse traceability, right? Sometimes a governement needs a freelancer like us.



So stop infighting and look at the real threat. Come on. It would be one of biggest missed deed of our time if open source failed to liberate more than code.



Update: a



Quote "mining will no longer be done for profit, but [...] power."

[...]

PoS coins, fiat coins, always end with centralization because, as I have said, once someone, or some nation, gains majority possession of the units of money, they control the currency forever.

Update 2: How to adapt and change nothing:

Quote from: Biomech on October 14, 2014, 12:14:41 AM First, let's dispense with the idea that they care a great deal about money. They don't. The currency they deal in is power. Money is merely an aspect or symbol of that power. Losing control of it it is catastrophic to the way they currently do business, but if you look at the history of rulership, they're incredibly adaptable. In America, they have turned a nation of renegades and individualists into a sociofascist empire that maintains and appearance of liberty. So, looking to that, how might blockchains be incorporated?



One that I find obvious is that they can hide their legerdemain in plain sight. Instead of fractional reserves, they have an adjustable rate of proof of stake, based on some metric they control. It appears that all money creation is above board and clean... but they control the metric.



I could go on for a while on the ways they might subvert the technology while APPEARING to "fix" the economic system. If they can come off as heroes, then they elevate themselves and again appear to be the benevolent overlords.

Update 3: How a state can destroy Bitcoin and, consequently, Bitcoin requires the implicit approval of a state:

And also



1. I don't like the word "enemy", it brings hate and I am like Churchill, I don't hate people, I just compete with them.

2. Sumbolon: which unites. Diabolon: which divides.

3. Forbidding prostitution doesn't work but doesn't cost money, for instance.

4. Full disclosure: I am a core team member of Monero, a currency whose main selling point is anonymity. This is a call to arms.Cryptoland as a whole is entering into decadence. We are resting on our laurels because BTC reached 1000 dollars and even now it is three times its 2013 ATH.While we are partying, the real competitionis readying its weapons.What? You really think banksters will disappear, fiat will disappear, a several century-old institution (fiat currency) will disappear thanks to a 5-year old technology? That some 50 year-old people (maximum, most are in the 20-30's) could change one of the latest powers of nation-states? Even the European Union's euro has a hard time doing it and it is not that big of a change. If fiat exists for so long, it is not only because of the lack of a better technology. It is also because it suits us (mankind). "But again, truth be told...if you're looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror."Radio was supposed to kill newspaper. TV was supposed to kill radio. Internet was supposed to kill TV. See a trend, here? Fact is this is just not how things works. Without going at length about the differences between protocol and symbol (), let's just say that centralised money is here to stay. Sure, it will have to negociate its position with decentralised money, like newspaper did with radio and so on, but that's all.And let me tell you:is a thing to come. Newspaper adapted to the rise of internet by going digital (ebook and apps), because being paper is a protocol. Providing daily written information is a symbol. Symbol don't die, protocols do.That's the same with fiat. It is a symbol, something that unite people. Fiat could change its protocol, like moving from arbitrary (decree,) to cryptographically-enforced. Yes, cryptodollar or cryptoeuro or cryptoyuan could very much become a reality; or cryptocredit, if you buy the SF staple of one universal money - doesn't change much, except if you are in the forex or exchange office businesses.And guess what, nation-states won't have any desire to share power with hippies/hackers using this Bitcoin thing. Once they'll realise prohibition doesn't workcost them money(some are starting to understand it), they will create their own cryptofiat. Nicaragua is doing it and I know some other places are doing it too.The best way to kill bitcoin and all is to make it irrelevant.100% premined fiat would not even need to change money creation (a crypto can be infinitely inflationary, like most Peercoin-based cryptos or Dogecoin). On top of it, cryptofiat would make surveillance so much easier. And since blockchain has tremendous uses out of money (see #powerofblockchain on Google+ ), you can be sure that incentives for moving to "crypto-everyting" will be there. Governement could even encourage it. Every passing year, somewhere in the world a law is promulgated to reduce the amount of cash that can be used for buying something. Connect the dots.Meanwhile, what we, Cryptolanders, doing? Self-congratulation ("we're gonna kill banksters") and infightings ("my coin is better than thyne"). These are signs of decadence. The Chinese Empire decayed in the middle of the last millenium when it decided that there was nothing interesting outside of its frontiers. And we are far from being the Chinese Empire. We are digging our own hole. Narcissism of small differences. A friend used the word of "crypto-balkanization". That's exactly it.Now, what can we do?First, we should both not care too much about infighting (the altcoin war is also Darwinian evolution at work, it has its uses) and at the same time still care enough to remember what really matters. Speaking of that, what does really matters, mmh? You have four hours.Second, it is easier to win if your competitor lets you win. Build your opponent a golden bridge to retreat across. If a governement can take advantage of crypto (and I already explained it can), make it so that this is a mutually-profitable agreement. Hatred only go that far; negociation goes much farther. Hey, I'm French, I know what I am talking about, we have an A-grade in Stubborness and Stupidity (Africa, Indochina...) whereas the British were much smarter.Governement wants money and control. Let us do it whilst allowing anyone on an individual basis to opt-out. If we create the tool, it will be possible. If we let the government create it, much less.Third, read history. Remember WIR. Remember how local currencies die when crisis are over (or sort of). Fiat won't disappear, it will adapt and there is room for non-fiat cryptocurrencies as long as it makes sense. What could an "illegitimate" currency (as in "not backed by governement") be good for? I believe thatis the important thing. You can be sure that cryptofiatbe traceable. You can also be sure also there will be a need for untraceability. A homeostatic system integrates its own opposition, that's why it is homeostatic. In simpler terms, legality has to tolerate illegality to continue to exist (which doesn't mean that tools useful for illegal action can't be used for legal actions - you do pay your coffee with some quarters, right?)It would be embarrassing for a government to have his fingerprints on an untraceable currency - after all, if you have nothing to hide, you have no reason to refuse traceability, right? Sometimes a governement needs a freelancer like us.So stop infighting and look at the real threat. Come on. It would be one of biggest missed deed of our time if open source failed to liberate more than code.Update: a very interesting reply on the Reddit with particularly insightful remarks; one about the future use of mining (which reminds me how patent transitionned from a defensive weapon to an offensive one) and the second about an essential limitation of PoS.Update 2: How to adapt and change nothing:Update 3: How a state can destroy Bitcoin and, consequently, Bitcoin requires the implicit approval of a state: The Stateless Currency and the State: An Examination of the Feasibility of a State Attack on Bitcoin . Damn interesting.And also State-sponsored cryptocurrencies 1. I don't like the word "enemy", it brings hate and I am like Churchill, I don't hate people, I just compete with them.2.: which unites.: which divides.3. Forbidding prostitution doesn't work but doesn't cost money, for instance.4. Full disclosure: I am a core team member of Monero, a currency whose main selling point is anonymity. Monero : the first crytocurrency to bring bank secrecy and net neutrality to the blockchain. HyperStake : pushing the limits of staking. Reputation thread Free bitcoins: reviews, hints : freebitco.in, freedoge.co.in, qoinpro