cooperation not corruption: the effects of kill count

(undertale spoilers)

it’s no secret that killing monsters causes frisk to undergo a steady and dark transformation. as monsters fall and LOVE climbs, japes and patience are replaced with efficiency and harm. frisk looks in the mirror and recognises themself as chara, as does flowey. at first glance, it may appear that the collected LOVE and EXP are corrupting and twisting chara. however, careful testing has uncovered something surprising: LOVE does not affect chara – if anything, it’s a measure of their control. while EXP and LOVE are welcome perks, nearly every genocide specific trigger hinges upon kill count, a count that chara tracks and even encourages.

kill count is important in the genocide route, but just how important is it? after countless tests, multiple runs, and hours of grinding, there may finally be an answer. this analysis breaks down the effects of kill count on the narration and the environment, the disparities between neutral and genocide routes, what precisely triggers or aborts a genocide run, and what it all means for chara’s corruption, or lack thereof.

1.) what is affected by kill count?

before going into details about genocide, here is a summary of how kill count affects the game in a neutral run.



GENERAL

the kill counter appears in the stats menu at 21 kills, regardless of the area.



RUINS

the froggit that teaches the player about mercy disappears at 1 kill.



all froggits in F4 room disappear at 17 kills (the first froggit is already gone if dialogue has been skipped).



napstablook disappears from lower rooms at 16 kills (but only after exiting the room).



vegetoids disappear from lower rooms at 12 kills (but only after exiting the room).



the froggit that saw toriel with groceries is gone at 1 kill.



at 20 kills, the genocide route is initiated with the appearance of “but nobody came.” (this does not include the first froggit.)

SNOWDIN

the dad slime sends the kids inside because it’s not safe when all dogs are killed (with the exception of lesser dog, who can be spared for the same results).



the punk hamster at grillby’s mentions they “have room” when all dogs have been killed (with the exception of lesser dog).



“but nobody came.” appears after 16 kills, regardless of unique encounter kills.



WATERFALL

kill count affects undyne’s primary dialogue, and her secondary dialogue is determined by who has been killed. the exception to this is papyrus’ death, which overrides both.



usually in the secondary dialogue, undyne will only mention one monster. however, if all dogs are eliminated, undyne will mention the whole “snowdin canine unit” was eliminated.



woshua says “your SOUL is unclean” at 1 kill.



the mushroom in temmie village will explain that his dance “means you’ve lived a life of sin" at 1 kill (talking to the mushroom again will prompt: “it means… don’t talk to me.”)

kill count affects whether or not undyne will hang out with the human; this may ensure that it is frisk who hangs out with undyne, so they will not deliver a killing blow at the end of the visit.



“but nobody came.” appears after 18 kills.



HOTLAND

dog food bag is “half-empty” at just 1 kill.



all dogs + 21 kills triggers “you just remembered something funny” when looking at the dog food.



if no spider treat was purchased and there was at least 1 kill, instead of commenting on how stingy the human is, the telegram will mention that no spider was harmed even if others were killed in the ruins.



“but nobody came.” appears after 40 kills, regardless of unique encounter kills.



NEW HOME

if any monster was killed, sans will judge based on EXP and LV.



reloading after first judgment, sans will comment that “you look bored” rather than about “that look on your face.”



if at LV 1 but with kills, sans notices a “look in your eye.”



frisk cannot talk to asgore if any monster was killed. (instead the narration reads “but there was nothing to say.”)



ENDINGS

neutral ending with toriel: killing more than 10 common monsters will cause toriel to be overthrown.



it is evident that kills affect the course of the game, even in neutral. there are many more triggers that can be activated depending on certain kills, but most important is the fact that areas can be cleared without bringing forth chara.

it’s interesting that something usually associated with genocide, clearing out areas, is an option in neutral routes. even more interesting is how little impact a high LOVE has on neutral runs.

2.) LOVE 15 and the turning point

in a genocide run, the last chance to abort genocide and return to a neutral route is right before the mettaton neo battle. (if the fight with mettaton is initiated without clearing out hotland/the core, the genocide route is aborted.) typically in a genocide run, mettaton neo is fought at LV 15. defeating him brings this up to LV 19.

in the genocide route, chara is very prominent at LV 15. they are able to kill mettaton neo and many other monsters in a single strike. however, reaching LV 15 at this point is not exclusive to the genocide route. this LV can be achieved in just the core by grinding only 39 knight knights. in fact, the whole area doesn’t even need to be cleared out (hotland/the core has 40 monsters).

however, after 39 knight knights are killed and LV 15 is reached, the route still remains neutral. high LOVE and EXP are not enough to warrant chara’s control. as a result, it can be concluded that high stats are unrelated to what chara wants. chara will not control frisk’s body in a neutral route, no matter how high the LOVE.

so one can have two runs with identical LV, EXP, ATK, and DEF (at least up until the core), but there is still a huge power gap and narrative shift between the neutral knight knight run and the deadly genocide run. this seems to imply that chara does not care about LOVE.

if LOVE and EXP isn’t what is fueling chara, what is? the answer lies in the genocide route triggers.

3.) genocide route starts at 20 kills

regardless of how much LOVE the human accumulates, it takes 20 kills to clear out the ruins. this is the only way to start the genocide route.

after that 20th kill, there’s a dramatic shift: the narration in toriel’s home is different, chara will identify themself in the mirror, and toriel can be killed in one hit without requiring betrayal.

it is worth noting that chara does not care if the first froggit is killed or not. only the monsters met after toriel leaves determine a narrative shift, even though froggit’s death is included in the game’s kill counter. even if the first froggit is killed, an additional 20 monsters must be killed to trigger chara’s red text. this is significant because it shows that chara has specific requirements before they begin to take over.

what is more significant about these 20 kills (excluding froggit) is that it implies the player doesn’t teach chara to hate. when 20 murders are committed in the ruins and chara’s red text appears, toriel is killed in one shot because of chara’s hatred towards her.

however, when only 19 monsters are killed in the ruins plus the first froggit, bringing the total to 20, the route remains neutral, despite the kill count being the same as genocide. because the “but nobody came” message has not appeared yet, chara does not surface, and there is not enough hatred to kill toriel at the start of battle. killing her in one strike depends on chara’s presence, which remains withdrawn until chara’s requirements are met: killing not just 20 total monsters, but all monsters after the first froggit. this technicality implies that the kills do not slowly twist chara, but rather, chara is waiting for the player to prove themself as a suitable partner.

4.) after the 20th kill, chara keeps track of the kill count

once the genocide route has been initiated, chara frequently reminds the player how many monsters remain. they never mention any other statistic – they only focus on how many more monsters are left to be killed.

how chara knows the exact amount of remaining monsters is not disclosed, but even when trying to leave waterfall they will stop frisk, claiming they have “strongly felt” the number of monsters left. these surviving monsters must be killed before reaching the end of the area, or else chara will stop providing guidance and the genocide route will be aborted.

there is another location where the kill count is tracked: the stats menu. the kill counter is added to the menu only at the 21st kill – never any earlier. considering chara first begins to express themself in home once the 20 kill quota has been met, this correlation supports the theory that chara prioritises kills. now that they are invested in the route, they begin to track the progress. they count the kills to make sure the player completely clears the areas of monsters. (note: another theory is that sans counts the kills, but it’s important to recognise that this kill counter appears before frisk meets sans.)

but what does this mean for frisk and chara in neutral routes? the counter still appears in neutral runs, so perhaps chara still cares about the number, like the other stats, regardless of route. another possibility is that the counter is added to entice the player. if a player can see how many kills they accumulate during their run, perhaps the player would feel challenged to kill as many as possible next time.

interestingly, this kill counter does not count sans’ death. while some believe it’s because sans did not truly die, it would make more sense that the kill counter was only meant to keep track of the kills committed by the player. the counter does not count sans’ death because it is not the player’s kill – chara is the one who delivers the fatal blow.

(side note: the canine unit – with the exception of lesser dog – is not tracked by the snowdin save points, but their deaths are still required and added to the menu kill count. this is unique to the dogs.)

5.) must kill all unique encounters

max EXP is not required for a successful genocide run. regardless of whether the LOVE is 9 or 11 when entering waterfall, chara will exhibit the same level of control. however, missing the chance to kill a single unique enemy will cause the genocide route to abort. leeway is given for common encounters who can be spared, but all unique encounters (i.e.: bosses and monsters that only appear once, including lesser dog and shyren) must die. snowdrake is also considered a unique encounter because he disappears after he is killed. (his friend chilldrake then appears as a common encounter, looking for him.) more noteworthy is that not killing snowdrake results in a harsh criticism from chara.

this is crucial because it shows that chara requires the player’s full cooperation, and anything short of that is not worth chara’s attention. so why does everyone in the way have to die?



chara’s goal in the genocide route is to “eradicate the enemy.”

it’s a common misconception that chara is corrupted by the influence of EXP or LV. it’s understandable why. in a genocide run, chara states the following.

however, even though chara relishes the feeling of numbers increasing, they make no mention of these numbers during any route. in fact, chara rarely shows any interest in gaining EXP, with the exception of the monster kid check:

nonetheless, this isn’t necessarily an indication that chara requires the EXP. if anything, it is an indication that chara considers monsters to be disposable. if there is still any doubt, there is one specific encounter that proves EXP is not relevant. glad dummy is a unique encounter that gives NO EXP to chara.

killing the glad dummy provides no benefit, yet if they are spared, the genocide route is over. chara doesn’t care if they did not provide LV or EXP – chara wants all enemies who stand in their way dead.

6.) sparing monsters does NOT deter chara

it’s rarely mentioned, but monsters can be spared without ruining a genocide route – as long as these monsters are not unique. showing mercy or even being kind to the enemies will not change chara’s desire to eradicate everyone. they will continue to reiterate how many surviving monsters there are and the genocide route will remain active. this contradicts the theory that chara has a change of heart if a single monster is spared. if anything, this is a testament to how strict chara is about eliminating the enemy. much like a cat toying with its prey, chara has no problem sparing common monsters, literally showing them mercy, but in the end the kill quota must be met for chara to be satisfied.

there is only one statistical benefit to sparing monsters: gold. at the end of genocide, chara mentions gold in their list of numbers.

gold is not a stat that needs to be maxed out for a successful genocide. it is practically worthless in a genocide run, and thus odd that chara mentions gold at all. this may imply that sparing does not abort the genocide run because chara still gets something out of it. incidentally, a line of battle text suggests that chara has an interest in holding on to gold. if a gift is given to gyftrot, money will be given “because you can’t think of an appropriate gift.” however, if the player tries to give another gift:

the player will not be able to give any more gold to gyftrot. it seems that chara prevents frisk from giving away hard earned money. since sparing can be used to grind gold, chara does not mind if monsters are spared at first, as long as all monsters are killed in the end.

7.) high kill count alone will not bring forth chara

at the end of the genocide route, one will have at least this many kills:

20 from the ruins + toriel = 21



16 from snowdin + 4 dogs + papyrus = 21



18 from waterfall + undyne = 19



40 from hotland/core + mettaton = 41



total kills: 102



more kills can be racked up, but this is the minimum amount of kills necessary for a genocide route. can this number of kills be committed in a neutral route? in fact, it can.

to avoid initiating a genocide route, kill the first froggit, 19 monsters in the ruins, and toriel. by only killing 19 monsters after toriel leaves, the genocide run will not start because the area is not cleared. however, this allows one to leave the ruins with the minimum 21 kills. from then on, kill all encounters and clear every area.

to get additional kills, simply kill extra monsters in each area by waiting for a random battle that includes multiple monsters in the last encounter. up to three monsters can appear at the same time in both snowdin and the core.

with this being possible, one thing is clear: chara is not being corrupted by LOVE or even the amount of kills. if chara was being corrupted, 102 kills should prompt chara’s control in a neutral route just as easily as in a genocide route. however, chara does not take over because they choose not to. they are not interested in an imperfect genocide route. chara will only replace frisk if complete eradication of the enemy is possible. when the ruins are left with surviving monsters, no amount of murder can make up for those missed kills.

this is the reason a genocide run will be aborted when a unique encounter is spared. now that it’s impossible to kill that unique encounter, chara has no further need to guide the player. there’s no point in giving advice if the player has already failed them.



8.) chara is an “angel” that fulfills the prophecy

there is another reason why thorough eradication is so significant in the genocide route – to fulfill the prophecy.

there are two different views of the prophecy because of the ambiguity of the word “free.” either the underground goes empty because everyone is freed from the underground prison or because they are “freed” from the mortal realm. the prophecy revolves around the double meaning of being “free,” which is referred to in all routes, including genocide.

consider also chara’s purpose, as stated by them at the end of the genocide route.

“power” alone is a bit vague, but coupled with the next sentence, it is more clear. power is both a purpose and a means of destruction. thus, chara’s purpose directly aligns with the morbid interpretation of the prophecy – to “free” everyone. it’s heavily foreshadowed that the prophecy applies to both pacifist and genocide endings.

is the prophecy still applicable if chara spares monsters and some run away? yes. in the end, chara is still able to empty the underground by literally destroying everything, effectively freeing everyone from not only the mortal realm but from their plane of existence.

9.) chara’s control starts weak, but killing gives them power

killing may not corrupt chara, but how does killing benefit chara? in a genocide route, chara’s control over frisk’s body grows over time as they accumulate kills, not LOVE or EXP. (as mentioned, while LV and EXP can vary greatly, there will always be a minimum kill requirement before leaving each area.) there is evidence of this growing control from chara’s progression of actions independent of the player and how they are described.

with at least 21 kills at the start of snowdin, chara’s first independent actions are inactions – they do not emote at sans’ joke and will not hide behind the lamp. but soon they walk on their own through puzzles. however, perhaps the control over their body is not perfect just yet, as implied by papyrus.

“shamble” is an interesting word to describe how chara is moving around, almost as if they are not in full control of their body’s movements. in case there is doubt that this applies to chara when they move on their own, papyrus says the following right after chara moves forward again.

in waterfall, the independent actions continue with chara’s reaction to random battles. at approximately 42 kills at the beginning of waterfall, rather than appearing startled by each encounter, chara’s reaction changes to a happy one. instead of an exclamation point, a smiley face appears over their head. later, chara is seen roughly climbing on monster kid; whether this is intentional or simply because chara has trouble controlling frisk’s body is unclear. either way, by the time chara confronts monster kid on the bridge at 60 kills, they have no trouble moving for themself. they turn away from the player’s view, make a “weird expression,” quickly advance towards monster kid, and initiate a fight as monster kid is still speaking. their quick movements and ability to start a fight shows how their control has grown.

if there is any doubt that chara was the one who initiated the fight, take note that the option to spare monster kid is available immediately. the narration does not mention that monster kid is “sparing you,” as it did with papyrus. if a monster’s name is in yellow, it means they do not want to fight. therefore, despite monster kid bravely standing up to chara with “you’ll have to get through me first,” their yellow name shows that they truly do not wish to fight.

at roughly 102 kills after finishing the core, chara makes a “creepy face” at flowey, demonstrating again the control they have over frisk. there are more examples, but the strongest evidence of chara’s control is at the end of the route with sans, asgore, and flowey. chara kills sans when the player fails to, brings asgore down to his knees, and eliminates flowey – all without the player’s input.

when chara sees the player killing from the outset, they encourage the player to continue by guiding them. then, chara uses these kills to acquire the power to kill on their own.

10.) what does this mean for chara’s influence in neutral routes?

if kills are committed, chara’s influence can even be seen in neutral routes. after all, chara is present in all routes whether they speak or not. given the nature of genocide exclusive narrative, it’s probable that unsympathetic reactions may be attributed to chara, even in a neutral route.

listed below are important lines affected by kill count in the neutral route.

dog food check

this infamous line appears when 21 monsters are killed, including all of the snowdin canine unit. this line was previously misattributed as genocide exclusive text, but it can easily be triggered in neutral runs. despite “you” being used here, it is possible that this sentiment actually belongs to chara and is projected into frisk’s mind.

the game has set up a precedent for this phenomenon: chara’s memories repeatedly show up in frisk’s subconscious. at every game over screen, a voice is heard urging chara to stay determined. based on the sound of the dialogue tones, this voice belongs to asgore, a character frisk hasn’t met yet. another instance is when frisk falls into the garbage dump: a memory is recalled that can only belong to chara.

now, one can argue that frisk isn’t actually experiencing these memories (and rather, the player or chara is), and that may be correct. however, there is other evidence that reveals frisk share chara’s memories and feelings. the proof lies in the jokes frisk tells to woshua.

these jokes heavily reference the experiences of chara and asriel. but how could frisk come up with these jokes on their own? the only possible rationale is that chara shared these jokes (or at least their memories) with frisk. since this can occur in a route with no kills, it gives credence to the theory that chara’s memories and feelings are projected onto frisk.

another precedent of chara projecting is in the pacifist route when facing snowdrake’s mother. after the player selects “laugh,” the flavour text reads, “you laugh, and keep laughing.” the commentary pauses to rescind the remark with “what, you didn’t do that?” despite “you” usually referring to frisk, this time the “you” actually describes chara’s behaviour, who then assumes frisk will follow suit.

finally, consider the fact that it takes 21 kills to trigger the dog food line “you just remembered something funny.” that number matches the kill quota of the ruins and represents the beginning of the genocide route. it is also the benchmark that reveals the kill counter in the stats menu. these two results are more closely related to the genocide route than the pacifist route, and moreover closely related to chara. it stands to reason that cruel, unsympathetic comments associated with frisk are planted by chara. since the comment is dependent on overall kill count and killing the dogs, the “you” here is likely chara projecting their own sense of humour onto frisk, using the power that murder has provided them.

sans’ judgment, repeated

in the last corridor at the end of the game, sans will inform frisk of the consequences of their actions depending on their LV and EXP. if the player resets to hear the judgment again, sans will provide some new dialogue. interestingly, there is a slight difference in frisk’s independent response when sans repeats his judgment – and this is the only observable action that changes. if there are no kills and the game is reloaded for a second judgment, sans will say the following.

however, if frisk has killed even one person, sans will say something slightly different.

this is a subtle difference, but nonetheless an intentional variant. frisk, who is characterised as patient by their observable actions, instead appears bored after killing even one monster. this apathy may be from frisk, but it’s important to remember that there is a different character that is characterised as being impatient.

yes, chara in the genocide route. things get even more interesting if sans judges frisk when they have only a tiny bit of EXP, with their LV still only at 1. a special case occurs if the killing happens after a neutral pacifist run.

in a single look, sans can tell that frisk has murdered someone, just to see what would happen. keep in mind that sans isn’t the only one who can tell frisk has committed murder even at LV 1. woshua may mention in battle that “your SOUL is unclean,” even when frisk has only killed one monster. the mushroom in temmie village will also make a comment, saying that “you’ve lived a life of sin.” while this look may very well belong to frisk, context clues seem to imply it comes from chara.

interestingly, the text that occurs when hitting mad dummy is still the same for LV 1, even if frisk has killed someone.

it is only at higher LV that the text becomes more cruel, and interestingly, the text becomes more vague about who the feelings may belong to. since higher LOVE means more kills, chara would have stronger influence over frisk at a higher LOVE.

it seems more likely that frisk would be the one to “feel bad,” while chara is the one to have that “look in your eye” that sans notices. truly it is up to the player to decide for themselves.

talking to asgore

if frisk has killed any monster, frisk will not say anything else after telling asgore how many times he has killed them before. this bears a striking resemblance to how frisk cannot say anything in toriel’s fight, specifically to the genocide-exclusive line “not worth talking to.” if there are no kills, frisk will talk to asgore and attempt to convince him to stop fighting. however, considering there is “nothing to say” after only one kill, perhaps it is chara who recognizes only fighting will make a difference. this connection also ties into the line “all you can do is FIGHT” that is given on the 9th time in a no-kill neutral route.

in conclusion:

the player can kill as much as they want in a neutral route. as long as a genocide route is not triggered, chara will never take control because perfect eradication is not possible.

missing even one unique encounter will abort a genocide route because perfect eradication is not possible; chara needs full cooperation from the player and thus loses interest, possibly to encourage a reset to do things properly.



even in non-genocide runs, killing will still cause frisk to act cruel and impatient, traits likely projected by chara.



sparing common monsters will not abort genocide because one can still meet the kill quotas, and there is a small benefit of gold.



killing provides chara with power and influence, but does not corrupt them. after chara recognises themself in the mirror, the unsympathetic behaviour becomes more prominent increases with kill count.



so what does this all mean?



LOVE and EXP are beneficial, but ultimately a high kill count gives chara the ability to wrest power away from frisk (and eventually the player) at the end of a genocide route. chara chooses to help the player “eradicate the enemy,” and encourages the player to meet the kill count quotas.