rainfelt:

tapiooo: geekandmisandry: I never excluded nb people and it was trans MEN that said men can’t be feminists. http://geekandmisandry.tumblr.com/post/139664761515/missmisogynoir-geekandmisandry



“This shit here, THIS is why men can’t be feminists. A movement started BY women and FOR women, that is what feminism is. “



That was your opening statement and I find it, if not toxic and dangerous given the amount of followers you have, at least highly irresponsible since it clearly states that non-binary people are not welcome because they are not women.



Your comments also give the impression that you don’t regard transmen and their problems important based on the fact that they are not women. I don’t argue that cis-men should be included in feminism but excluding transmen from feminism is not a good move. They do suffer from the fact that they were assinged female and the fact that they are trans.



To me you sound like saying: “I am not terf but transmen…”.

“it was trans MEN that said men can’t be feminists”



I think you missed this bit?



Like me, GAM used to try to make more of a space in feminism for trans men, before trans men repeatedly told her that it was misgendering them; before trans women spoke up to say that they had experienced too much misogyny (as well as transmisogyny) from trans men to be comfortable with them as feminists.



And being asked to call yourself a feminist ally rather than a feminist isn’t telling you your problems aren’t important… :\

Honestly, as a trans woman, I’m extremely uncomfortable with anyone who tells me that it’s “toxic and dangerous” to treat trans people like cis people on issues that are tangentally-at-best related to their trans status. It reads as “Well, sure, keep cis men out, but trans men are really women so they have a place at the table.” It’s TWERF reasoning - the exact logic that leads them to bring trans men into “women-only” spaces and keep me out.

(I am unsurprised to see a reblog from someone with a history of saying a ton of TWERFy shit on tapiooo’s front page, now that I look.)

Trans men are men. That means, among other things, they don’t get a free pass into women’s movements. They can ally with feminists, but not be members - just like cis men, because they are men. Where do non-binary people fall in this? Simple. Do tehy align with womanhood at some level? (It may surprise you to know that a lot of NB folks do!) If so, they’re in. If not, they’re welcome to ally.

tl;dr: It is not transphobic to reserve feminism for female-aligned people. it’ is hugely fucking transphobic to try to give men a seat at the table based on their genitalia. And tapiooo here reeks of “I’m not the transphobe, you are!” GAM and rainfelt have both been far better allies to trans folks, and you’d do well to learn from them on that front. Now stop this derailing bullshit.