TL.net ESPORTS Profile Joined July 2011 1 Post Last Edited: 2019-10-23 12:23:47 #1 Interview conducted by Wax



TL.net interviewed #4 Circuit seed SpeCial ahead of the 2019 Global Finals, talking about the value of GSL-style preparation™, sharing strategies with TY, and how he prepares for BlizzCon. Also, just a liiitttle chat about balance. Just a little. I promise.







*This interview has been edited and condensed.





Wax: You've been very good at previous BlizzCons, advancing past the group stage in 2017 and 2018. Do you think you can do it again?



SpeCial: Yeah, yes last two times I advanced. One time I advanced in first, second time I advanced in second so, maybe, I hope I can do the same again. I mean, I'm starting to play better right now [note: interview was conducted shortly after Super Tournament II], and that's good because the tournament is not so far away. So if I can maintain... if I can maintain my pace and keep [improving], I think I can do it.



It's not... I'm not going to say I'm going to advance 100%, but I'm always going to try my hardest. I don't know! I think there's a chance.



You always say you play better when you have time to prepare for specific opponents like in the Global Finals.



Yes, that's the reason I think I always do well in the groups. Not only the groups, but even the first match. For the round-of-eight, there's also like, five days to prepare for that match. For example, the first year I beat Miko [Elazer]. Year two, I lost to Stats 1-3, but those games were actually insanely close. Like, the result doesn't tell the story. So I feel like, if I at least have some days to prepare, I think I can do well, regardless of who I play.



How specific is your preparation? A build or two for every map?



Yeah, that's pretty much it. Every map I have a build, or have a response to what he does, or what I think he will do. That's exactly how I prepare.



Has your experience from previous BlizzCons made you feel like you can start planning ahead for the later rounds where there's no time to prep?



No, I don't like that. I think that's a bad mentality to have. Because, if you lose in the group, it doesn't matter what you've prepared for the rest. I think it depends on the format, of course. Because, not to s*** talk, but let's say I play WCS, and I'm playing someone that's not a top Zerg. Then, of course, I can save stuff. But here, everyone is good, you know?



Does the change to best-of-five it harder for you this year?



Yeah, I think it's harder for Terran right now to win a BO5 than a BO3, but it's not impossible. How do I put it... Right now, the map pool is not very favored for Terran, so you're going to end up with some maps that are hard to prepare on. And BO5 is just in general, it tends to... normally favor like the better player, no matter what? I don't know, it's hard to explain. But it's still possible.



I think it's worse in general for everyone that's not super godly mechanically like Maru or Serral. It's bad, but it's not like you can't win, that's not how it works. You can still win.



Speaking of mechanics monsters, what did you think when you saw players like INnoVation or Maru just bringing a couple of builds to a series and bulldozing guys with mechanics?



Nowadays, actually it's rare to see that. I don't think I've seen that anymore, it's too easy to blind counter right now. They try to mix stuff up nowadays. For example, if you saw TY play the Super Tournament, he basically mixed his up his build every single game. I feel that's the biggest strength that I have right now. That's also why, for example, Maru won GSL's. He mixed up everything, and he played well.



Yeah, but TY was always like that. INnoVation has been notable for just playing the same build.



That was like, Heart of the Swarm, was that? He'd play Widow Mine against Zerg and he'd never lose. It was different back then. And also, people were worse at preparing back then, I think people are so much better now. Like, I like to put Zest up as an example. Before last year, he was still playing like one build every match-up, and he was so good on ladder, but he used to do really bad in tournaments.



Then, he started mixing stuff up, and he got like GSL finals, he went to BlizzCon. You know? That's one of the players who started mixing stuff up and started getting better results.



How closely do you collaborate with TY on strategies these days?



Consider that I just gave him like three builds against herO [in the Super Tournament], I would say really close. I was actually surprised he went mech, I didn't know he would go mech. But I gave him the openings. I just told him herO is weak against proxy because he always goes like one base.



Was the late mech a surprise?



We used to do that, it's not that bad. The problem is it only works on map like... It was very good on, for example, New Repugnancy or Kairos, because those maps are small. The smallest map right now is Winter's Gate, I would say. It makes sense on that map, but if you try on a bigger map, it doesn't really work. Protoss is really rich and there's no place to attack for you.



How do you discuss strategies? I know you have some decent game-related Korean.



His English is good enough now, he studies English. It's not super fluent, but it's good enough. And I know a lot of Korean game stuff, so it works.



Are you surprised at how historically bad Koreans have been at scouting the foreigners and their strats? There are some exceptions, but it's felt like you could do a ladder strat and catch someone off guard.



Yeah, I think it's dumb. I think there's no reason not to do the research. You can always learn from anyone, no matter who, you know? For example in BlizzCon 2017, the build I used to beat TY was from a 5.9K player. I played on ladder, I almost lost to it, and I thought, I can make this better. And I did, and it was a good build, man.



How do you feel about the progress you've made as a player since 2017?



I think after 2016 was s*** for me, at the beginning of 2017 I told myself I would go to Korea, and if I failed I would probably stop playing. So after that change of mind, I think my results have been mostly stable. So I'm very happy about that.



Any frustration about the pace of improvement slowing down, or are you just happy to be consistent?



Of course I would like to win, obviously. Who doesn't want to win, right? I think being stable is just as important as winning. If you're not stable, at least, you're not making any money so it's not worth it. Obviously I want to win, and I always aim to win. But if I can't win, at least I want to be stable.



I guess Serral existing is the biggest reason other players can't win.



Ehhhh... I don't think so. I think if we had time, like GSL, it would be easier to beat people like that. Zerg benefits the most from tournaments like [the WCS Circuit.]



That's a thing you've said for a while. Terran benefits the most from being able to prepare.



Yes, I've been saying that before Serral was dominant. I said that when Neeb was winning everything, remember back in 2017? I always said like, if I had time to prepare I could win this tournament, but... I mean, it's not an excuse, but it's just the way I feel. If I win one day, great. But I'll still think if you can prepare as Terran, it's just miles easier and better for you overall.



I mean, I'm not saying if I prepare I'm going to beat Serral every time, that's not what I mean. I'm probably gonna put up a better fight than when we played in the finals. Even though I lost 4-0, I feel like I played good in some games. But I feel like if I had time to prepare, I could make the score at least closer.



Let's talk about the Zerg is OP in late-game meme. You seem to think they're just OP in general?



The Overlord speed buff gave Zerg the option get free intel basically, and even if they don't get it... It's not like Terran can know if they're getting the OL-speed upgrade or not, because there's so many Zerg openings. Even if they don't get it, it already crosses out a lot builds for Terran, just because if they get overlord speed—ripperino, not good, you know?



And also, I feel like doing damage early on against Zerg nowadays is very hard because of maps. Just the way Zerg players got better at defending stuff. I feel like you always enter the mid-game in a disadvantage you know. I feel like, there should be some stuff changed about the way Zerg works. Some drastic change, I think. I don't think it's particularly fair that creep gives vision, for example. I think that's really dumb.



And this map pool is particularly bad?



Yeah it's terrible. It's just big. There's no good pushing spots. They're just wide open, there's no real harassment options, kind of. I think it's just not good for Terran in this scenario. When one of your best maps is Thunderbird, you know something is wrong. That map wasn't event hat good last season.



What's your goal for the global finals?



As I always say, my goal is to win, but I take it round-by-round. The first thing is advance from your f***ing group. If I advance from the group, I'll think about round-of-eight.



But my goal is always to win, doesn't matter, the tournaments I really care about, I always try to win.



Any final comments to your fans?



As I always say, I'm trying my best here. I really try to do well for myself and for my fans, obviously.



Keep the good vibes, and the Doritos will come, I promise. Well I don't promise, because I never promise. But they will come.



You can follow SpeCial on Twitter at @SpeCialsc2 for quality Pokemon and StarCraft II content. SpeCial will play in his WCS Global Finals group with Dark, ShoWTimE, and soO on Thursday, Oct 24 3:00am GMT (GMT+00:00) SpeCial: Yeah, yes last two times I advanced. One time I advanced in first, second time I advanced in second so, maybe, I hope I can do the same again. I mean, I'm starting to play better right now, and that's good because the tournament is not so far away. So if I can maintain... if I can maintain my pace and keep [improving], I think I can do it.It's not... I'm not going to say I'm going to advance 100%, but I'm always going to try my hardest. I don't know! I think there's a chance.Yes, that's the reason I think I always do well in the groups. Not only the groups, but even the first match. For the round-of-eight, there's also like, five days to prepare for that match. For example, the first year I beat Miko. Year two, I lost to Stats 1-3, but those games were actually insanely close. Like, the result doesn't tell the story. So I feel like, if I at least have some days to prepare, I think I can do well, regardless of who I play.Yeah, that's pretty much it. Every map I have a build, or have a response to what he does, or what I think he will do. That's exactly how I prepare.No, I don't like that. I think that's a bad mentality to have. Because, if you lose in the group, it doesn't matter what you've prepared for the rest. I think it depends on the format, of course. Because, not to s*** talk, but let's say I play WCS, and I'm playing someone that's not a top Zerg. Then, of course, I can save stuff. But here, everyone is good, you know?Yeah, I think it's harder for Terran right now to win a BO5 than a BO3, but it's not impossible. How do I put it... Right now, the map pool is not very favored for Terran, so you're going to end up with some maps that are hard to prepare on. And BO5 is just in general, it tends to... normally favor like the better player, no matter what? I don't know, it's hard to explain. But it's still possible.I think it's worse in general for everyone that's not super godly mechanically like Maru or Serral. It's bad, but it's not like you can't win, that's not how it works. You can still win.Nowadays, actually it's rare to see that. I don't think I've seen that anymore, it's too easy to blind counter right now. They try to mix stuff up nowadays. For example, if you saw TY play the Super Tournament, he basically mixed his up his build every single game. I feel that's the biggest strength that I have right now. That's also why, for example, Maru won GSL's. He mixed up everything, and he played well.That was like, Heart of the Swarm, was that? He'd play Widow Mine against Zerg and he'd never lose. It was different back then. And also, people were worse at preparing back then, I think people are so much better now. Like, I like to put Zest up as an example. Before last year, he was still playing like one build every match-up, and he was so good on ladder, but he used to do really bad in tournaments.Then, he started mixing stuff up, and he got like GSL finals, he went to BlizzCon. You know? That's one of the players who started mixing stuff up and started getting better results.Consider that I just gave him like three builds against herO [in the Super Tournament], I would say really close. I was actually surprised he went mech, I didn't know he would go mech. But I gave him the openings. I just told him herO is weak against proxy because he always goes like one base.We used to do that, it's not that bad. The problem is it only works on map like... It was very good on, for example, New Repugnancy or Kairos, because those maps are small. The smallest map right now is Winter's Gate, I would say. It makes sense on that map, but if you try on a bigger map, it doesn't really work. Protoss is really rich and there's no place to attack for you.His English is good enough now, he studies English. It's not super fluent, but it's good enough. And I know a lot of Korean game stuff, so it works.Yeah, I think it's dumb. I think there's no reason not to do the research. You can always learn from anyone, no matter who, you know? For example in BlizzCon 2017, the build I used to beat TY was from a 5.9K player. I played on ladder, I almost lost to it, and I thought, I can make this better. And I did, and it was a good build, man.I think after 2016 was s*** for me, at the beginning of 2017 I told myself I would go to Korea, and if I failed I would probably stop playing. So after that change of mind, I think my results have been mostly stable. So I'm very happy about that.Of course I would like to win, obviously. Who doesn't want to win, right? I think being stable is just as important as winning. If you're not stable, at least, you're not making any money so it's not worth it. Obviously I want to win, and I always aim to win. But if I can't win, at least I want to be stable.Ehhhh... I don't think so. I think if we had time, like GSL, it would be easier to beat people like that. Zerg benefits the most from tournaments like [the WCS Circuit.]Yes, I've been saying that before Serral was dominant. I said that when Neeb was winning everything, remember back in 2017? I always said like, if I had time to prepare I could win this tournament, but... I mean, it's not an excuse, but it's just the way I feel. If I win one day, great. But I'll still think if you can prepare as Terran, it's just miles easier and better for you overall.I mean, I'm not saying if I prepare I'm going to beat Serral every time, that's not what I mean. I'm probably gonna put up a better fight than when we played in the finals. Even though I lost 4-0, I feel like I played good in some games. But I feel like if I had time to prepare, I could make the score at least closer.The Overlord speed buff gave Zerg the option get free intel basically, and even if they don't get it... It's not like Terran can know if they're getting the OL-speed upgrade or not, because there's so many Zerg openings. Even if they don't get it, it already crosses out a lot builds for Terran, just because if they get overlord speed—ripperino, not good, you know?And also, I feel like doing damage early on against Zerg nowadays is very hard because of maps. Just the way Zerg players got better at defending stuff. I feel like you always enter the mid-game in a disadvantage you know. I feel like, there should be some stuff changed about the way Zerg works. Some drastic change, I think. I don't think it's particularly fair that creep gives vision, for example. I think that's really dumb.Yeah it's terrible. It's just big. There's no good pushing spots. They're just wide open, there's no real harassment options, kind of. I think it's just not good for Terran in this scenario. When one of your best maps is Thunderbird, you know something is wrong. That map wasn't event hat good last season.As I always say, my goal is to win, but I take it round-by-round. The first thing is advance from your f***ing group. If I advance from the group, I'll think about round-of-eight.But my goal is always to win, doesn't matter, the tournaments I really care about, I always try to win.As I always say, I'm trying my best here. I really try to do well for myself and for my fans, obviously.Keep the good vibes, and the Doritos will come, I promise. Well I don't promise, because I never promise. But they will come.

DSh1 Profile Joined April 2017 286 Posts #2 nice

Harris1st Profile Blog Joined May 2010 Germany 3700 Posts #3 Cool interview!

Interesting that he just mentions Zerg scouting as the biggest threat, not even Infestor or Broodlords. Analog to what we discussed in the other thread, changes to Ovi speed or creep vision TheDougler is the master of signature bets, he is the two-time Blizzcon SigBet Champ. Also, Serral let me down.

Ej_ Profile Blog Joined January 2013 47288 Posts #4 On October 23 2019 20:12 Harris1st wrote:

Cool interview!

Interesting that he just mentions Zerg scouting as the biggest threat, not even Infestor or Broodlords. Analog to what we discussed in the other thread, changes to Ovi speed or creep vision

Infestor/BL is a ZvP problem. Terran struggles atm because their builds are too easy for Zerg to read.

I think the creep vision complaint is misguided, whenever creep spreads to the point of a virtual maphack, it's because the Zerg had too much freedom earlier in the game. Creep wasn't nearly as overpresent in early LotV or even HotS, when Zerg's early game was much weaker. Infestor/BL is a ZvP problem. Terran struggles atm because their builds are too easy for Zerg to read.I think the creep vision complaint is misguided, whenever creep spreads to the point of a virtual maphack, it's because the Zerg had too much freedom earlier in the game. Creep wasn't nearly as overpresent in early LotV or even HotS, when Zerg's early game was much weaker. "Technically the dictionary has zero authority on the meaning or words" - Rodya

Shuffleblade Profile Joined February 2012 Sweden 1834 Posts Last Edited: 2019-10-23 11:34:03 #5 On October 23 2019 20:18 Ej_ wrote:

Show nested quote +

On October 23 2019 20:12 Harris1st wrote:

Cool interview!

Interesting that he just mentions Zerg scouting as the biggest threat, not even Infestor or Broodlords. Analog to what we discussed in the other thread, changes to Ovi speed or creep vision

Infestor/BL is a ZvP problem. Terran struggles atm because their builds are too easy for Zerg to read.

I think the creep vision complaint is misguided, whenever creep spreads to the point of a virtual maphack, it's because the Zerg had too much freedom earlier in the game. Creep wasn't nearly as overpresent in early LotV or even HotS, when Zerg's early game was much weaker. Infestor/BL is a ZvP problem. Terran struggles atm because their builds are too easy for Zerg to read.I think the creep vision complaint is misguided, whenever creep spreads to the point of a virtual maphack, it's because the Zerg had too much freedom earlier in the game. Creep wasn't nearly as overpresent in early LotV or even HotS, when Zerg's early game was much weaker.

So terran struggles early and mid game because their builds and pushes are easy to scout and predict. Then you say creep spread is not a problem because terran should kill or cripple zerg early....



So first you state early terran attacks are weak and inneffective and then you say terran needs to pressure early?



Something needs to change, either zergs power in mid-late game or terrans ability to pressure/harass early game, either of those would work.



The problem with creep also is the map pool right now, even if you do a mid game push you will need to step far onto creep to do any damage. Its not only late game that creep has gotten a bit too poweful.



Also because the maps are so open pure ling bane kills absolutely everything terran can build that isn't in the skies. Zerglings and banelings are simply OP in this mappool and tanks are crap So terran struggles early and mid game because their builds and pushes are easy to scout and predict. Then you say creep spread is not a problem because terran should kill or cripple zerg early....So first you state early terran attacks are weak and inneffective and then you say terran needs to pressure early?Something needs to change, either zergs power in mid-late game or terrans ability to pressure/harass early game, either of those would work.The problem with creep also is the map pool right now, even if you do a mid game push you will need to step far onto creep to do any damage. Its not only late game that creep has gotten a bit too poweful.Also because the maps are so open pure ling bane kills absolutely everything terran can build that isn't in the skies. Zerglings and banelings are simply OP in this mappool and tanks are crap Maru, Bomber, TY, Dear, Classic, DeParture and Rogue!

LTCM Profile Joined May 2017 151 Posts #6 The thing I remember most about off racing as Zerg is the feeling that I had a map hack on. Zerg's vision and scouting is that insane. Couldn't agree more with special about his comments. Byun is a convicted match-fixer.

Ej_ Profile Blog Joined January 2013 47288 Posts Last Edited: 2019-10-23 13:07:12 #7 On October 23 2019 20:32 Shuffleblade wrote:

Show nested quote +

On October 23 2019 20:18 Ej_ wrote:

On October 23 2019 20:12 Harris1st wrote:

Cool interview!

Interesting that he just mentions Zerg scouting as the biggest threat, not even Infestor or Broodlords. Analog to what we discussed in the other thread, changes to Ovi speed or creep vision

Infestor/BL is a ZvP problem. Terran struggles atm because their builds are too easy for Zerg to read.

I think the creep vision complaint is misguided, whenever creep spreads to the point of a virtual maphack, it's because the Zerg had too much freedom earlier in the game. Creep wasn't nearly as overpresent in early LotV or even HotS, when Zerg's early game was much weaker. Infestor/BL is a ZvP problem. Terran struggles atm because their builds are too easy for Zerg to read.I think the creep vision complaint is misguided, whenever creep spreads to the point of a virtual maphack, it's because the Zerg had too much freedom earlier in the game. Creep wasn't nearly as overpresent in early LotV or even HotS, when Zerg's early game was much weaker.

So terran struggles early and mid game because their builds and pushes are easy to scout and predict. Then you say creep spread is not a problem because terran should kill or cripple zerg early....



So first you state early terran attacks are weak and inneffective and then you say terran needs to pressure early?



Something needs to change, either zergs power in mid-late game or terrans ability to pressure/harass early game, either of those would work.

So terran struggles early and mid game because their builds and pushes are easy to scout and predict. Then you say creep spread is not a problem because terran should kill or cripple zerg early....So first you state early terran attacks are weak and inneffective and then you say terran needs to pressure early?Something needs to change, either zergs power in mid-late game or terrans ability to pressure/harass early game, either of those would work.

Yes, I think Zerg has much more freedom in early game than they used to, whether it's because they can make drones and queens over combat units, or scout and prepare for every offensive play (which didn't use to be a thing, anybody remember when Zerg started 1/1 significantly after Terran in 2015?).

You could tackle the strentgh of creep here, but IMHO the real culprit is the combination of queen's early game+ease of overlord scouting. Yes, I think Zerg has much more freedom in early game than they used to, whether it's because they can make drones and queens over combat units, or scout and prepare for every offensive play (which didn't use to be a thing, anybody remember when Zerg started 1/1 significantly after Terran in 2015?).You could tackle the strentgh of creep here, but IMHO the real culprit is the combination of queen's early game+ease of overlord scouting. "Technically the dictionary has zero authority on the meaning or words" - Rodya

Shuffleblade Profile Joined February 2012 Sweden 1834 Posts #8 On October 23 2019 20:55 Ej_ wrote:

Show nested quote +

On October 23 2019 20:32 Shuffleblade wrote:

On October 23 2019 20:18 Ej_ wrote:

On October 23 2019 20:12 Harris1st wrote:

Cool interview!

Interesting that he just mentions Zerg scouting as the biggest threat, not even Infestor or Broodlords. Analog to what we discussed in the other thread, changes to Ovi speed or creep vision

Infestor/BL is a ZvP problem. Terran struggles atm because their builds are too easy for Zerg to read.

I think the creep vision complaint is misguided, whenever creep spreads to the point of a virtual maphack, it's because the Zerg had too much freedom earlier in the game. Creep wasn't nearly as overpresent in early LotV or even HotS, when Zerg's early game was much weaker. Infestor/BL is a ZvP problem. Terran struggles atm because their builds are too easy for Zerg to read.I think the creep vision complaint is misguided, whenever creep spreads to the point of a virtual maphack, it's because the Zerg had too much freedom earlier in the game. Creep wasn't nearly as overpresent in early LotV or even HotS, when Zerg's early game was much weaker.

So terran struggles early and mid game because their builds and pushes are easy to scout and predict. Then you say creep spread is not a problem because terran should kill or cripple zerg early....



So first you state early terran attacks are weak and inneffective and then you say terran needs to pressure early?



Something needs to change, either zergs power in mid-late game or terrans ability to pressure/harass early game, either of those would work.

So terran struggles early and mid game because their builds and pushes are easy to scout and predict. Then you say creep spread is not a problem because terran should kill or cripple zerg early....So first you state early terran attacks are weak and inneffective and then you say terran needs to pressure early?Something needs to change, either zergs power in mid-late game or terrans ability to pressure/harass early game, either of those would work.

Yes, I think Zerg has much more freedom in early game than they used, whether it's because they can make drones and queens over combat units, or scout and prepare for every offensive play (which didn't use to be a thing, anybody remember when Zerg started 1/1 significantly after Terran in 2015?).

You could tackle the strentgh of creep here, but IMHO the real culprit is the combination of queen's early game+ease of overlord scouting. Yes, I think Zerg has much more freedom in early game than they used, whether it's because they can make drones and queens over combat units, or scout and prepare for every offensive play (which didn't use to be a thing, anybody remember when Zerg started 1/1 significantly after Terran in 2015?).You could tackle the strentgh of creep here, but IMHO the real culprit is the combination of queen's early game+ease of overlord scouting.

Yeah you are right, however the question is if the state of the game from 2015 is possible to bring back with lotv new economic model that ***** the balance very badly. Early game pressure is much worse in lotv than earlier version of the game that is just how it is, how to balance it so zerg still has chinks in its armor while at the same time is able to get into the mid game even (which means ahead 1 base) is very hard.



If we want the matchup to be balanced like that a year down the line than we probably need to nerf zerg so badly their winrate will plummet for the next 4-6 months while struggling to adapt to the nerfs. The state of lotv started out decently balanced early-mid-late game wise but the more time zerg got to improve the more imbalanced it got. Yeah you are right, however the question is if the state of the game from 2015 is possible to bring back with lotv new economic model that ***** the balance very badly. Early game pressure is much worse in lotv than earlier version of the game that is just how it is, how to balance it so zerg still has chinks in its armor while at the same time is able to get into the mid game even (which means ahead 1 base) is very hard.If we want the matchup to be balanced like that a year down the line than we probably need to nerf zerg so badly their winrate will plummet for the next 4-6 months while struggling to adapt to the nerfs. The state of lotv started out decently balanced early-mid-late game wise but the more time zerg got to improve the more imbalanced it got. Maru, Bomber, TY, Dear, Classic, DeParture and Rogue!

Fej Profile Joined July 2011 Hungary 24 Posts #9 "because there's so many Zerg openings"



wait, wat

WombaT Profile Blog Joined May 2010 Northern Ireland 14312 Posts #10 On October 23 2019 20:12 Harris1st wrote:

Cool interview!

Interesting that he just mentions Zerg scouting as the biggest threat, not even Infestor or Broodlords. Analog to what we discussed in the other thread, changes to Ovi speed or creep vision

It’s such a combination of factors, Zerg scouting potency is more pronounced because of the ‘cripple them before lategame’ timer.



It’s interesting how it segues in with what Special was saying about the importance of prepped stuff and how Zerg tends to require it the least. He mentioned Inno’s styles from previous games and metas where he just came at you with bio mine pushes and not a great deal of trickery at all.



I’ll be very surprised if a Zerg doesn’t win Blizzcon. They’re strong at present anyway, maps are good for them and the format is great for them as well.



Bo5s in groups with a second chance if you lose a series, gets pretty tough for the other races, if it were Bo3 at that stage I could see more Zergs getting put out at that stage.



It’s really stretching it to say Zergs can just play the same game every game, but it is closer to the case with them than Protoss or Terrans playing vZ for sure. It’s such a combination of factors, Zerg scouting potency is more pronounced because of the ‘cripple them before lategame’ timer.It’s interesting how it segues in with what Special was saying about the importance of prepped stuff and how Zerg tends to require it the least. He mentioned Inno’s styles from previous games and metas where he just came at you with bio mine pushes and not a great deal of trickery at all.I’ll be very surprised if a Zerg doesn’t win Blizzcon. They’re strong at present anyway, maps are good for them and the format is great for them as well.Bo5s in groups with a second chance if you lose a series, gets pretty tough for the other races, if it were Bo3 at that stage I could see more Zergs getting put out at that stage.It’s really stretching it to say Zergs can just play the same game every game, but it is closer to the case with them than Protoss or Terrans playing vZ for sure. 'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat

emperorofwild Profile Joined July 2019 71 Posts #11 zerg vs zerg in finnal is so common in wcs, people take it as a default.

now KR zerg is dominating KR

And I can say if Dark was not beaten by Rouge, not a P or T player can stop him.

In highest level matches, only zerg beat zerg, in CTC best zerg means best team.Zerg always win, in all kind of ways. Top terran can be cannon rushed, but zerg? no! Error tolerance is not same level.

So is that all P&T players a dumb?All smart players choose to be zerg? or just zerg op?

deacon.frost Profile Joined February 2013 Czech Republic 9864 Posts #12 On October 23 2019 21:22 Wombat_NI wrote:

Show nested quote +

On October 23 2019 20:12 Harris1st wrote:

Cool interview!

Interesting that he just mentions Zerg scouting as the biggest threat, not even Infestor or Broodlords. Analog to what we discussed in the other thread, changes to Ovi speed or creep vision

It’s such a combination of factors, Zerg scouting potency is more pronounced because of the ‘cripple them before lategame’ timer.



It’s interesting how it segues in with what Special was saying about the importance of prepped stuff and how Zerg tends to require it the least. He mentioned Inno’s styles from previous games and metas where he just came at you with bio mine pushes and not a great deal of trickery at all.



I’ll be very surprised if a Zerg doesn’t win Blizzcon. They’re strong at present anyway, maps are good for them and the format is great for them as well.



Bo5s in groups with a second chance if you lose a series, gets pretty tough for the other races, if it were Bo3 at that stage I could see more Zergs getting put out at that stage.



It’s really stretching it to say Zergs can just play the same game every game, but it is closer to the case with them than Protoss or Terrans playing vZ for sure. It’s such a combination of factors, Zerg scouting potency is more pronounced because of the ‘cripple them before lategame’ timer.It’s interesting how it segues in with what Special was saying about the importance of prepped stuff and how Zerg tends to require it the least. He mentioned Inno’s styles from previous games and metas where he just came at you with bio mine pushes and not a great deal of trickery at all.I’ll be very surprised if a Zerg doesn’t win Blizzcon. They’re strong at present anyway, maps are good for them and the format is great for them as well.Bo5s in groups with a second chance if you lose a series, gets pretty tough for the other races, if it were Bo3 at that stage I could see more Zergs getting put out at that stage.It’s really stretching it to say Zergs can just play the same game every game, but it is closer to the case with them than Protoss or Terrans playing vZ for sure.

OTOH what can you do as a zerg to stop scouting? You can't just block the "hop in" points, you can't deny the hallucinations and you certainly can't deny the shades. They have to be the race with the least pressure on the preparation. IMO (maybe I'm missing something)



Maybe they need to redesign the queen/inject/creep mechanic, but I don't see that happening, because the ability to create 20 drones at once(or 20 units) is IMO wrong. Should be more BW-ish in this terms. OTOH what can you do as a zerg to stop scouting? You can't just block the "hop in" points, you can't deny the hallucinations and you certainly can't deny the shades. They have to be the race with the least pressure on the preparation. IMO (maybe I'm missing something)Maybe they need to redesign the queen/inject/creep mechanic, but I don't see that happening, because the ability to create 20 drones at once(or 20 units) is IMO wrong. Should be more BW-ish in this terms. I imagine France should be able to take this unless Lilbow is busy practicing for Starcraft III. | KadaverBB is my fairy ban mother.

ZigguratOfUr Profile Blog Joined April 2012 Iraq 16102 Posts #13 Nice interview. Nothing really new from Special, but lots of interesting details. Maps I made recently: Nevermore: https://i.imgur.com/NiqR0Rj.jpg | Rubaiyat: https://i.imgur.com/XD3E3vd.jpg | Grand Canal: https://i.imgur.com/kNgyOCo.jpg

DreamlnCode Profile Joined December 2018 United Kingdom 62 Posts #14 Sounds like Pro-Gamer fatigue setting in, Hope you at least make the Ro8 SpeCial.



No comments from here on the Zerg stuff.

The_Red_Viper Profile Blog Joined August 2013 18786 Posts #15 Good interview! What was the most interesting to me was his comment about using some 5.9k build in an improved version to actually beat TY. Really shows that there is still some creativity and one could potentially find it anywhere. Brings back memories of the time where some guy on reddit said why not just use sensor towers against blink allins and TY actually did it once :D

A lot of balance talk here as well, bad mappool but also thoughts about more inherent zerg design.



If we only care about the queen and creep mechanic situation i think the problem simply lies in zerg being able to build a lot of them only for creep + defense. Their whole energy will be used just for creep in most cases because there is barely any need to transfuse them while defending. So if we want less creep we have a few options.

Either we simply increase the energy requirement of the ability, or we make the queen use energy in other ways so there is less for creep. How one could do that? Either by making it so the queen has to transfuse more often, which would only really be the case if they were less tanky and thus needed the healing more often, or if we say remove the autoattack and give the queen an oracle like attack which uses energy. That way any harass you want to defend with a lot of queens actually results into less creep later on. Not sure how viable any of this is, but it's potentially something to think about.



BLΛƆKPIИK in your area | IU | SoHyang || There is no God and we are his prophets | For if ‘Thou mayest’—it is also true that ‘Thou mayest not.” | Ignorance is the parent of fear |

WombaT Profile Blog Joined May 2010 Northern Ireland 14312 Posts #16 On October 23 2019 23:32 deacon.frost wrote:

Show nested quote +

On October 23 2019 21:22 Wombat_NI wrote:

On October 23 2019 20:12 Harris1st wrote:

Cool interview!

Interesting that he just mentions Zerg scouting as the biggest threat, not even Infestor or Broodlords. Analog to what we discussed in the other thread, changes to Ovi speed or creep vision

It’s such a combination of factors, Zerg scouting potency is more pronounced because of the ‘cripple them before lategame’ timer.



It’s interesting how it segues in with what Special was saying about the importance of prepped stuff and how Zerg tends to require it the least. He mentioned Inno’s styles from previous games and metas where he just came at you with bio mine pushes and not a great deal of trickery at all.



I’ll be very surprised if a Zerg doesn’t win Blizzcon. They’re strong at present anyway, maps are good for them and the format is great for them as well.



Bo5s in groups with a second chance if you lose a series, gets pretty tough for the other races, if it were Bo3 at that stage I could see more Zergs getting put out at that stage.



It’s really stretching it to say Zergs can just play the same game every game, but it is closer to the case with them than Protoss or Terrans playing vZ for sure. It’s such a combination of factors, Zerg scouting potency is more pronounced because of the ‘cripple them before lategame’ timer.It’s interesting how it segues in with what Special was saying about the importance of prepped stuff and how Zerg tends to require it the least. He mentioned Inno’s styles from previous games and metas where he just came at you with bio mine pushes and not a great deal of trickery at all.I’ll be very surprised if a Zerg doesn’t win Blizzcon. They’re strong at present anyway, maps are good for them and the format is great for them as well.Bo5s in groups with a second chance if you lose a series, gets pretty tough for the other races, if it were Bo3 at that stage I could see more Zergs getting put out at that stage.It’s really stretching it to say Zergs can just play the same game every game, but it is closer to the case with them than Protoss or Terrans playing vZ for sure.

OTOH what can you do as a zerg to stop scouting? You can't just block the "hop in" points, you can't deny the hallucinations and you certainly can't deny the shades. They have to be the race with the least pressure on the preparation. IMO (maybe I'm missing something)



Maybe they need to redesign the queen/inject/creep mechanic, but I don't see that happening, because the ability to create 20 drones at once(or 20 units) is IMO wrong. Should be more BW-ish in this terms. OTOH what can you do as a zerg to stop scouting? You can't just block the "hop in" points, you can't deny the hallucinations and you certainly can't deny the shades. They have to be the race with the least pressure on the preparation. IMO (maybe I'm missing something)Maybe they need to redesign the queen/inject/creep mechanic, but I don't see that happening, because the ability to create 20 drones at once(or 20 units) is IMO wrong. Should be more BW-ish in this terms.

I think in theory it’s fine if Zerg can explode in economy if they defend well and expand out on the map, with their creep and out-trade you. Metas considered good, usually featuring ling/bling/muta in TvZ anyway tend to fit that pattern.



A problem of the current meta is that Zerg are getting that eco going while transitioning to compositions that are incredibly cost-efficient as well. They have a better economy with compositions that trade way beyond their cost, which is a rather bad combination IMO.



You have a race that currently basically requires tailored builds to slow down, with the mechanic to mass drone, whose scouting capacity has been buffed recently, with maps that suit it and whose lategame comps are insane.



Individually these elements aren’t broken IMO but taken all together and it gets rather dicey indeed.



Personally I feel that if Zerg had some of these but it manifested in big swarms of low/mid tier units swamping opponents off an eco advantage that they’ve earned that feels like how Zerg ‘should’ play.



Any talk of balance aside it’s jarring that Zerg don’t fit their racial character.



I think in theory it’s fine if Zerg can explode in economy if they defend well and expand out on the map, with their creep and out-trade you. Metas considered good, usually featuring ling/bling/muta in TvZ anyway tend to fit that pattern.A problem of the current meta is that Zerg are getting that eco going while transitioning to compositions that are incredibly cost-efficient as well. They have a better economy with compositions that trade way beyond their cost, which is a rather bad combination IMO.You have a race that currently basically requires tailored builds to slow down, with the mechanic to mass drone, whose scouting capacity has been buffed recently, with maps that suit it and whose lategame comps are insane.Individually these elements aren’t broken IMO but taken all together and it gets rather dicey indeed.Personally I feel that if Zerg had some of these but it manifested in big swarms of low/mid tier units swamping opponents off an eco advantage that they’ve earned that feels like how Zerg ‘should’ play.Any talk of balance aside it’s jarring that Zerg don’t fit their racial character. 'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat

True_Spike Profile Joined July 2004 Poland 3249 Posts Last Edited: 2019-10-23 15:18:30 #17 I'm so glad Special said what he said about creep giving vision.



Personally I couldn't agree more - I feel this is the single biggest problem with Zergs "imba", ever since I started playing more Z.



Infestors being infestors doesn't help, but the fact that Zerg can so easily and so reliably get himself into good spots mid to late game is mostly due to easy and basically free scouting, mostly in the forms of creep tumors and OL speed.

bela.mervado Profile Joined December 2008 Hungary 178 Posts #18 amazing what a 25/25 decrease in ovi speed research cost can achieve!

RandomPlayer Profile Joined April 2012 Russian Federation 335 Posts #19 Remove creep vision - what a great idea!! I've never thought about it, keeping the vision for active tumors only makes complete sense. They should use overlords or zerglings as static observers.

BerserkSword Profile Joined December 2018 United States 1915 Posts #20 The anti-zerg whine is out of control.



They are on the verge of heavily nerfing the infestor and the brood lord and now some people already have creep in the crosshairs of the nerf gun.



Both the queen and creep were nerfed after blizzcon 2018.



How about before destroying a race (like what happened to Protoss) you give some time for the current changes (infestor and brood lord nerfs) to settle?

1 2 3 4 Next All