Having been a diehard fan of Tupac Amaru Shakur for a majority of my life, there are few interviews left of his that I haven’t seen or heard (and that’s saying a lot, considering how much content related to him has been released throughout the years). However, a few months ago I stumbled upon something that I had never heard before: a 1991 promotional interview recorded around the release of his debut studio album, 2Pacalypse Now. Many know about Tupac’s revolutionary family roots, and how these roots influenced not only his music, but his greater mission as a public figure and artist living in America. This is at the core of what inspires me today as not only a creative, but a human being as well. Still, listening to the linked interview above had me moved and motivated to another degree. Within around 40 minutes or so, a 20-year-old Tupac states a number of important things that I had always assumed he believed or stood for, but in terms much more clear and explicit than anything I had ever heard from him before — terms that resonate with me deeply now as Black man living in America.

Despite the rage and aggressive tone of much of his earlier, more revolutionary music, he speaks in incredibly rational and nuanced terms about a range of interrelated topics in this interview. Here, I’d like to share ten highlights from the interview along with some of my own thoughts and a closing statement as someone who is not only deeply inspired and influenced by the art and actions of Tupac Shakur, but as someone who has been trying to find a way to honor his legacy for years. If you’re short on time, please skip to the fifth highlight of the interview: Tupac Speaks on the American People Being Divided Through Identity Politics, and Uniting to Fight a Common Enemy.

Although the interview begins with topics that many reading this article may already be quite familiar with, I’d like to ask you for patience. Eventually, Tupac begins to introduce some incredibly important concepts and ideas that were not shared by many of our most popular artists then, and that haven’t been shared by many of our most popular artists since. Most of said concepts are relevant now more than ever before (most notably beginning with the ones mentioned in highlight number three and onward).

1) Tupac on Black Love

A GIF derived from Tupac’s music video for his 1993 hit single, “Keep Ya Head Up.”

One of the core subjects that Tupac addresses in the linked interview is the great racial division that we faced in 1991 — the same racial division that we are facing today in 2017. At one point towards the beginning of the interview, he speaks on Black Americans loving themselves as Black Americans (or “New Afrikans”) first, before loving themselves for their African ancestry.

“I see the young Black male in a… I’ll say it like everyone else is saying it: in a state of emergency. This is true. It’s been said 30 million times, but how do we get out of the [cycle]? I see it as… by showing us our own strength… Showing us our own history. Not just the history from Africa and, you know, how we used to be kings and queens, but how we used to be fighters here, how [we’re] soldiers. You know, we damn near built this country, so therefore how could you not love being Black?! How could you not wanna build more?! I know if we built this country, we could build ourselves back up… That’s what Tupac is about. It’s about being that spark to start the fire again… I wanna just bring renaissance back for Black people. I just want everything to be ‘beautiful Black’ again. Not being without white, but just where Black is beautiful…”

At the time that this interview took place, the Pan-Africanism movement was virtually in full effect. Some Black Americans (especially young ones) felt the desire to completely discount their history on North American soil in an effort to cultivate a new identity tied to the perceived traditions and cultures of their African ancestors. Tupac felt it was important that we as Black Americans remember the role that our ancestors played in the history of this nation, not erasing our past within North America, but understanding our collective strength in making it through all that we have faced — a strength that, if truly understood and realized, could be used to empower us in all ways moving towards the 21st century. Tupac emphasizes that he wants to represent the catalyst for this, and for Black Americans to be perceived as “beautiful.” As linked audio towards the end of this piece suggests, Tupac would later go on to understand the importance of political engagement in solving many of the issues plaguing Black Americans, but at 20 years of age, his understanding of self-perception amongst Black Americans was crucial.

The idea of Black empowerment helping to unite and empower the people as a whole is another idea that Tupac discusses more directly later on in the interview, specifically with regards to the FBI and its role in destroying the Black Panther Party movement under the leadership of J. Edgar Hoover.

2) Tupac on the Term “African American”

A photo of Tupac in African garb on the set of the Digital Underground’s music video for “Same Song” in 1991 — The African style direction for Tupac’s scene is something that he vehemently opposed, according to group leader Shock G.

With this topic, Tupac shares a view on the term “African American” that I’ve held for many years, but in doing so, also shares sentiments that are used to argue that “Black culture” or something inherent about Black Americans perpetuates racial inequality within America. Don’t let his words here fool you, though. It may appear that Tupac pulls from the culturalist tradition in some areas, but he brings great clarity to the previous point on self love, explaining how it in turn can lead to a greater love amongst everyone, and unite people in a greater fight against injustice as opposed to strengthening a particular separatist position. Tupac states that he is an integrationist and in speaking on what he feels are solutions for us as Black Americans, reveals that he views our problems through the structuralist framework later on in the interview (EDIT: It is worth noting that some Black or New Afrikan people who identify as “separatists” want nothing more than greater autonomy for Black people; this is a position that I fall into as of 2020, with the understanding that white supremacy and the economic system of capitalism produce forced assimilation and homogenization as a part of a larger settler-colonialist project built upon the enslavement of our ancestors when traditional integration is pursued under the territories of the U.S. nation-state, which means that it is crucial we be building in self-determination for ourselves first.)

“I understand the whole concept behind saying you’re ‘African American,’ making a more ‘global’ thing… And making it so ‘Black’ is just a color. You know, you don’t want to be so limited. But that’s what I want to concentrate on: the color black. Because it’s the Black people that’s killing Black… It’s the Black that’s causing so much red to flow through the streets. It’s the Blacks that’s having teenage pregnancy problems. It’s the Blacks that’s on crack BIG TIME. Not just Blacks, but it’s Blacks that’s on crack big time. And that’s who I want to target… And once we feel in love [with] being Black, we’ll definitely have a joy in being ‘African Americans.’ That’s no problem. That’ll come easy… But I feel like we have to make it more personal, so that when I see a Black man, I feel love. Immediately… I want it to be straight up. Real. And then we can grow and we can love white, ‘cause we’ll love Black. We’ll say, ‘These are our neighbors. They live here with us.’ I don’t think that white people are devils. I think that there’s evil and there’s a devil everywhere. [He] could be Puerto Rican. He could be Black, white, whatever… You gotta watch for evil… Tupac ain’t about just seeing a whole bunch of Black people in one spot, because there’s a lot of snakes out there… I want the GOOD in Black folks, that’s what I want.”

I’d like to make it clear that Tupac is only speaking to Black Americans here. He states:

“Like I said, we’re in a state of emergency, and I’m talking to my people. I’m talking to my folks. That’s what the huddle is for, but everybody can listen, ’cause I’m not saying nothing that’s evil or [dangerous]… Everybody can listen…”

Acknowledging that Black Americans need greater love amongst themselves does not absolve white America and non-Black America as a whole of any sort of responsibility as it pertains to making the world a better place. It simply speaks to the fact that if Black Americans were to develop greater bonds and support amongst themselves, they could hold a stronger position within a divided nation. Although I do not have direct statistics on hand for the degree to which Black Americans faced issues at disproportionate levels in the areas that Tupac mentioned above in 1991, we do know that America was approaching the end of the crack epidemic at this time. The mass drug use that took place within predominantly Black communities around this period (along with the effects of the “tough on crime” policies that were implemented by Bill Clinton and others in the years to come) has been studied at length over the past couple of decades, and we are more than aware of the impact that these events have had on the Black American population in particular. That being said, more have acknowledged the myth of “Black-on-Black crime” by 2017 as having been conjured up through a certain perception of concentrated poverty paired with residential segregation. The Atlanta Black Star cites a 2014 FBI report that shows us white Americans not only kill each other more frequently than any other racial group in America, but that there is only an eight-percentage point margin between the rate at which Black Americans kill Black Americans, and the rate at which white people kill white people (in 2014, a Black American was killed by a member of the same race 90 percent of the time while a white person was killed by a member of the same race 82 percent of the time).

All things considered, 1991 was a much more dangerous time in America, and Black Americans had (and still do have) poorer access to many things, from quality education, to quality housing and healthcare. In the part of the interview mentioned above, Tupac is making a point to comment on not only the importance of Black self-love and the disproportionate amount of challenges facing Black America (he uses the expression “big time” to describe such disproportions, in my view), but on racial division as well. This — in addition to police brutality — is something that he speaks to at greater length later on, but listening to the interview is important, for in this moment, one can hear an awareness in his voice as it pertains to the “divide and conquer” tactics at play between Black and white Americans. America’s long history of racism against Black and Indigenous peoples is well documented and understood by now, but many in the media did (and still do) try to use the extreme statements of certain Black nationalist organizations and their leaders (such as the Nation of Islam) against Black American people and their more Left-leaning movements. Tupac was no stranger to media attacks and misrepresentation at the time that this interview took place, and this is much needed context for his statements about white people.

Many (not all) Black nationalists commonly and frequently refer to all white people as “devils.” Malcolm X himself found this to be inappropriate and false later on in his life following his trip to Mecca (before being assassinated), but the term “white devils” is still heavily associated with his legacy due to his earlier statements, and statements from other Black nationalist organizations/leaders throughout the years. Here in this moment, however, Tupac is stressing that he wants Black Americans to acknowledge themselves as human beings worthy of a certain standard of living and justice, and to also understand that the “evil” (which I would argue are the effects of capitalism) works through people of all ethnic groups, despite the fact that white Americans hold the most institutional power. Tupac states the following towards the end of the interview:

“We can do anything… I gotta say this again, it’s not black against white. When I say ‘we,’ it’s the good against evil… If you right, and you got good on your side, I really, truly believe that nothing can stop you. And I’m using the same thing that America taught me. That’s what I’m using. The tools of this country: capitalism and imperialism, colonialism, I’m using all those against them…”

3) Tupac on Police Brutality

A photo of Tupac taken in 1991 after he was beaten unconscious by two members of the Oakland Police Department following a stop for “jaywalking.”

Tupac was no stranger to police brutality. In 1991, while walking across the street near 17th and Broadway in Oakland, California, Tupac was stopped by members of the Oakland Police Department for allegedly “jaywalking” before being told that he’d have to “learn his place.” Words were exchanged, and Tupac was cuffed and beaten unconscious before being taken to jail. He’d go on to file a $10 million civil suit against the OPD, and settle for $42,000.

Tupac addresses the “jaywalking incident” at a press conference on November 12th, 1991.

On his first album, Tupac vents at length about his many frustrations with corrupt police officers and government agencies, and speaks to those who have experienced police brutality themselves. In doing this, he calls out many different people and entities by name and sends harsh words to major forces of oppression that played huge roles in not only making life harder for himself and other Black Americans, but infiltrating and destroying the very revolutionary organization that birthed him as well:

As a result of this and other factors, Tupac found himself attacked by many different groups and people, including then Vice President Dan Quayle, who called the release of Tupac’s 2Pacalypse Now “an irresponsible corporate act” after positing that it was responsible for the death of a Texas state trooper, who was shot to death earlier that year by a suspect who was allegedly listening to the album in a stolen truck when he was stopped. Tupac addresses some of the responses to his album that he was receiving at that time:

“They hear the songs and they go, ‘Damn, he’s shooting police officers?’ But to me, come on, be real. Everybody knows that this is just a song about shooting police officers. Let’s talk about the reality of police brutality. Let’s talk about the reality of a situation like Rodney King, and let’s talk about the fantasy of a song like ‘I Don’t Give a Fuck’ or ‘Soldier’s Story’… Those are rebel songs. Just like back in the 60s, you had to have folk songs… That's what this is, it’s just soul music. It’s like music for us to carry on with. For us to move on. It’s battle songs. It’s songs talking about strong Black men fighting back against an oppressor. You never hear me sing a song about me just walking up and shooting a cop. It’s always provoked. It’s always self-defense. And I want to get that strength back, where you CAN fight back. And that's what I sing about… That's what I rap about. I don't rap about ‘we shall overcome’ and peace ’cause that's a dream. And I want a piece of the dream too, but for me to get a piece of the dream, I have to have a piece.”

Themes of rebellion and empowerment continue throughout the interview, and following the above statements, Tupac begins to share his views on the idea of Black armed struggle, and being realistic about our enemies:

“Even though it’s [a state of] emergency, I don’t wanna panic people and just say ‘kill kill kill kill kill kill kill,’ ’cause that’s wrong, and that’s what we done already — we been through that. And we see what happens when Black folks try to defend themselves through armed struggle without education, and without self-defense (mentally). We die… But if we start to join up, and start to be more united, and start being realistic about who the enemy is, then we’ll be better off.”

4) Tupac on Black Armed Struggle as an “Option”

Reading the lyrics to Tupac’s first single, Holler If Ya Hear Me, off of his second solo album, Strictly 4 My N.I.G.G.A.Z., it’s made abundantly clear that he was far from one to fear the idea of using force to protect himself or his people. He would later go on to prove this in 1993, shooting two drunk off-duty police officers in Atlanta who were harassing a young black male in the street while brandishing guns logged as evidence in an ongoing case. According to Tupac and his people, the police were the first to shoot at him and his crew. Looking back at the New York Times coverage of the incident, it’s easy to see how public perception of Tupac was being shaped at that time. Tupac would go on to escape any sort of charges or imprisonment for the incident, but one could argue that the negative reputation that would follow him as a result of press coverage for this event (along with many others) never left him.

From the very beginning of his rap career, Tupac had many different groups coming at him, and from almost all sides. It would be hard to imagine anyone not wanting to be armed coming from an environment like the one Tupac was in. Many diehard Tupac fans (myself included) do not believe that it was a coincidence or a surface-level byproduct of being a “popular rapper” that drew dangerous entities towards him throughout his career, and if you listen to his words with an understanding of how some of our government agencies have worked throughout the history of America, you’ll begin to understand why this is:

“I think that [armed struggle] needs to be an option. To say that it needs to be a part of the Black struggle would predict violence. I say that it needs to be an option. We need to keep our options open as Black people. And we need to keep our options open as young people. And we need to keep our options open as human beings. So, for me as a Black man, I have three different tasks. That’s why it’s not like I’m racist, but for a white man, he only has one of those things to worry about: getting himself together as a human being. I have to worry about getting myself together as a human being, a young man, and as a Black man. So of course I’m gonna be a little bit more angry. My words are gonna cut a little bit [closer] to heart because I got a lot more to fight about, and a lot more to cry about, and a lot more to get from this… And I really don’t care who’s offended, because how could you take offense to somebody trying to dig their way out of a hole? What’s so offensive about me surviving? That’s why I take great offense, because you’re obviously saying you want me to shut up and die…”

5) Tupac Speaks on the American People Being Divided Through Identity Politics, and Uniting to Fight a Common Enemy