gmaxwell: wumpus: yea, I understand they had timed automatic reissues... :( this was also something I didn't know prior to monday before last and is one of the other reasons my "they couldn't have lost much!" position softened to "I have no freeking clue."

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epscy: the figure I keep hearing is 250,000 btc (that's roughly what they should have, customer funds + plus profit from trading fees), no idea if that is reliable or not though

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epscy: mrkent: there are a lot of assumptions floating about though, which makes me uneasy

cesurasean1: where do most people get their bitcoins here? finding them themselves?

gmaxwell: epscy: well if you want to do detective work, someone pointed out that there was a HUGE bitcoin days destroyed spike on the 7th.

gmaxwell: might be interesting to go find the contributing transaction(s).

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epscy: gmaxwell: you think that could have been gox?

alpha125: gmaxwell: where did you find out abotu the automatic reissues?

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mrkent: gmaxwell, where did u buy goxBTC?

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gmaxwell: mrkent: from people on irc, they're in #mtgox-otc now.

gmaxwell: alpha125: from mtgox staff and magicaltux ... I had assumed previously that any reissues were manual via customer support but apparently it was just timed.

epscy: oh jeez

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alpha125: damn. that makes me change my mind quite a bit

epscy: said it before and will say it again, endlessly retrying txes hoping the problem goes away is not what i want from an exchange

alpha125: :(

gmaxwell: you'll also note that they've kept increasing their fees and then even mad paying fees mandatory.

epscy: i actually approve of what gox is doing now, shutting things down until the problem is fixed (though communication is poor)

gmaxwell: This suggested to me that they totally misunderstood their problems. (and— I reported that I believed this months ago too)

epscy: i think they should probably shut off trading as well

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gmaxwell: e.g. they noticed lots of txn getting stuck, they didn't understand it was because they were producing invalid txn (even though it was reported to them) and so they thought it was just 'full blocks'

alpha125: epscy: but them being able to buy cheap coins might be their way out of this mess

mrkent: gmaxwell, Ah yes. I was shocked when logging into gox for the first time in a long time to see 0.001 fee

rokj: well they need just to keep money, btc flowing in, nothing to go out

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gmaxwell: and they increased their fees from 0.0001 to 0.0005 — which was enough to may more than virtually every txn— and then later to 0.001 which is basically astronomic. And then they made it mandatory.

epscy: alpha125: they have always claimed they don't trade on their own exchange

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Persopolis: from a totally uneducated view point - it feels like mtgox are stalling intentionally - their reputation is already damaged and they lose nothing by further delays - are they trying to get some form of agreement that enables them to recover some of their lost funds?

epscy: alpha125: and i really think it would be a bad thing if they did