allten



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You Don't Bitcoin 'till You Mint Coin







Sr. MemberActivity: 450Merit: 250You Don't Bitcoin 'till You Mint Coin DIY PCB with AVALON: "The Quarter Stick" - Needs Help! March 30, 2013, 06:07:13 PM

Last edit: November 19, 2013, 06:28:21 AM by allten #1

So, I have finally taken care of the butterfly infestation at my home.

Then it was time to get back to this project and see where it should go.

I spent the weekend building up a few boards with the chips that "daemondazz" had sent (Thank You!).

Everything works except the Nonce capture from the Avalon Chip. The design needs

revised for a better clock filter from the incoming data out of the Avalon. It might as well be revised

for the 55nM chip as well. I believe there is already a good solution found in this open source design

for a clock filter:



Honestly, I don't have the drive to complete this project only because a single chip miner

seem so pointless given how the mining world has shaped up so far so fast and where it is going.

I would like to dedicate my energies on helping out on some other Open Source projects.



If there is anyone that has the ambition to finish this, PM me. I'll be happy to send

all the Eagle cad Files and materials to help out. This would include x10 55nM Avalon

sample chips and I also have a pickit 3 available if needed. I would also be happy

to share what I've learned and insights that would help get this project to the finish line faster.

Just hoping for the right person that can put the drive back into this and make it happen.



Thanks.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

DIY Setup for a little over $200:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=161715.msg2374824#msg2374824



PCB Version A0 (Build 0). All files found here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=161715.msg2426942#msg2426942



Low Cost DIY ASIC Miner



Purpose:

This thread is intended for the development of a very low cost DIY open source

ASIC miner based on Avalon's chips. Hopefully, it will inspire other Bitcoin ASIC

manufactures to offer their chips as well.



Objectives:

* Get ASICs in the hands of the masses ASAP.



* Create the cheapest solution possible. The lowest possible price is the goal.

The $ per hash ratio is not expected to be the best.



* Make it simple enough that anyone with a DIY spirit can assemble one of these with

some simple low priced tools.

https://www.sparkfun.com/tutorials/category/2

DIY manufacturing may be an avenue to get these out much faster.

Expect a few hours assembly time per board.



*Make the PCB design that is not only DIY friendly, but mass production friendly as well.

It will use surface mount technology.



*Inspire more ASIC Bitcoin Mining manufactures to pop up all over the world (Decentralization).

ASIC manufacturing in general is the most complicated production process in the world.

IMO, the best thing for Bitcoin would be for ASIC Bitcoin Manufactures to be decoupled from

final product production; or at least offer their chips as well on top of their final products.



Specifications (subject to change):

* USB power source is all that is required.

* Utilizes a single Avalon ASIC

* 256+ MH/s

* 2 Watt maximum power usage

* TYPE A USB Male option on either side of the PCB

* Type B USB Female option

* More to come



Sponsors:

*Burnin - He is a serious manufacture of Bitcoin mining equipment. He has committed to helping

with the open source software/firmware to make this project function. He has started an official

thread for his miners and it's worth checking out:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=179769.0



*Zefir - He is preordaining Avalon ASICs in smaller quantities for anyone interested:

funds:

Zefir is committed to helping this low cost DIY project be successful by making a small quantity

of chips available for ordering and development.



Team:

All of you! An open source design also means its open to anyone. Feel free to take the initiative

to help out in your own way. Please don't get discouraged as it may take time to figure

out where your talents fit in best. I have received an overwhelming quantity of supportive emails

and also many request to help out. I wasn't prepared for that, but now, I would like to make

a list of anyone that wants to get involved here and what they would like to bring to the table.

Shoot me ANOTHER email and I will add you name here.



"Someone42" who was the inspiration and pioneer in hardware wallets has offered his help here.

"Burnin" has also offered his help, but is also very busy as he is preparing his own miner.



Allten's Commitment:

I will engineer the schematic and the PCB. As soon as the chip specifications are available, I will

release within a week a preliminary design for feedback. I will personally manufacture enough

of these to get them in the hands of all those that will be helping with firmware/software development.

After that, a detailed tutorial will be made on how to order and produce these by yourself.



Important note: I do not want to become a distributor for these for the simple fact I would like

to have time available for other projects I'm passionate about. This is a golden opportunity for anyone

or a few people to become distributors of DIY kits and already assembled miners. I will assist anyone

to get set up for this once I've completed the tutorial.



Funding:

Sending some coins would be very helpful and greatly appreciated.

1AqEzSiw7aqZ7T53XvXMqrcnUD5tKcvJxP

What will donations cover? Enough to order the parts and PCBs for the initial boards used for development.

All extra will be used to drive bounties for software/firmware development.

I get the feeling that many have ordered chips with confidence that there will be a PCB solution

readily available before the ASICs arrive. If that is the case, consider donating up to 5% of

what you invested in chips to this project. It would sure help hurry it a long! Much of the bounty portion

may go to "burnin" as his code development for the controller portion will be shared with this project and

he is most heavily invested to make it work along with his product ASAP.

Final Update (Nov 18 2013):So, I have finally taken care of the butterfly infestation at my home.Then it was time to get back to this project and see where it should go.I spent the weekend building up a few boards with the chips that "daemondazz" had sent (Thank You!).Everything works except the Nonce capture from the Avalon Chip. The design needsrevised for a better clock filter from the incoming data out of the Avalon. It might as well be revisedfor the 55nM chip as well. I believe there is already a good solution found in this open source designfor a clock filter: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=323175.0 Honestly, I don't have the drive to complete this project only because a single chip minerseem so pointless given how the mining world has shaped up so far so fast and where it is going.I would like to dedicate my energies on helping out on some other Open Source projects.If there is anyone that has the ambition to finish this, PM me. I'll be happy to sendall the Eagle cad Files and materials to help out. This would include x10 55nM Avalonsample chips and I also have a pickit 3 available if needed. I would also be happyto share what I've learned and insights that would help get this project to the finish line faster.Just hoping for the right person that can put the drive back into this and make it happen.Thanks.~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~DIY Setup for a little over $200:PCB Version A0 (Build 0). All files found here:This thread is intended for the development of a very low cost DIY open sourceASIC miner based on Avalon's chips. Hopefully, it will inspire other Bitcoin ASICmanufactures to offer their chips as well.* Get ASICs in the hands of the masses ASAP.* Create the cheapest solution possible. The lowest possible price is the goal.The $ per hash ratio is not expected to be the best.* Make it simple enough that anyone with a DIY spirit can assemble one of these withsome simple low priced tools.DIY manufacturing may be an avenue to get these out much faster.Expect a few hours assembly time per board.*Make the PCB design that is not only DIY friendly, but mass production friendly as well.It will use surface mount technology.*Inspire more ASIC Bitcoin Mining manufactures to pop up all over the world (Decentralization).ASIC manufacturing in general is the most complicated production process in the world.IMO, the best thing for Bitcoin would be for ASIC Bitcoin Manufactures to be decoupled fromfinal product production; or at least offer their chips as well on top of their final products.* USB power source is all that is required.* Utilizes a single Avalon ASIC* 256+ MH/s* 2 Watt maximum power usage* TYPE A USB Male option on either side of the PCB* Type B USB Female option* More to come*Burnin - He is a serious manufacture of Bitcoin mining equipment. He has committed to helpingwith the open source software/firmware to make this project function. He has started an officialthread for his miners and it's worth checking out:*Zefir - He is preordaining Avalon ASICs in smaller quantities for anyone interested:funds: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=177827.0 Zefir is committed to helping this low cost DIY project be successful by making a small quantityof chips available for ordering and development.All of you! An open source design also means its open to anyone. Feel free to take the initiativeto help out in your own way. Please don't get discouraged as it may take time to figureout where your talents fit in best. I have received an overwhelming quantity of supportive emailsand also many request to help out. I wasn't prepared for that, but now, I would like to makea list of anyone that wants to get involved here and what they would like to bring to the table."Someone42" who was the inspiration and pioneer in hardware wallets has offered his help here."Burnin" has also offered his help, but is also very busy as he is preparing his own miner.I will engineer the schematic and the PCB. As soon as the chip specifications are available, I willrelease within a week a preliminary design for feedback. I will personally manufacture enoughof these to get them in the hands of all those that will be helping with firmware/software development.After that, a detailed tutorial will be made on how to order and produce these by yourself.Important note: I do not want to become a distributor for these for the simple fact I would liketo have time available for other projects I'm passionate about. This is a golden opportunity for anyoneor a few people to become distributors of DIY kits and already assembled miners. I will assist anyoneto get set up for this once I've completed the tutorial.Sending some coins would be very helpful and greatly appreciated.What will donations cover? Enough to order the parts and PCBs for the initial boards used for development.All extra will be used to drive bounties for software/firmware development.I get the feeling that many have ordered chips with confidence that there will be a PCB solutionreadily available before the ASICs arrive. If that is the case, consider donating up to 5% ofwhat you invested in chips to this project. It would sure help hurry it a long! Much of the bounty portionmay go to "burnin" as his code development for the controller portion will be shared with this project andhe is most heavily invested to make it work along with his product ASAP.

"This isn't the kind of software where we can leave so many unresolved bugs that we need a tracker for them." -- Satoshi vertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertised sites arenot endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be usafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.

loshia



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LegendaryActivity: 1610Merit: 1000 Re: DIY PCB with AVAlON - BitSyncom, need your help. March 30, 2013, 06:39:53 PM

Last edit: March 30, 2013, 07:01:37 PM by loshia #2



I do really hope that they will start to sell chips, because without them it can never happen. I have mailed/PMd them a couple of times and still nothing. We have to wait for sure.



Let all of us keep this thread alive! With valuable information which is already posted And with following Avalon comments also





+1 Dude,I do really hope that they will start to sell chips, because without them it can never happen. I have mailed/PMd them a couple of times and still nothing. We have to wait for sure.Let all of us keep this thread alive! With valuable information which is already postedAnd with following Avalon comments also

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=643999.msg7191563#msg7191563

And remember Bicknellski is not collecting money from community;D Please help the Led Boy aka Bicknellski to make us a nice Christmas led tree and pay WASP membership fee here:And remember Bicknellski is not collecting money from community;D

samborambo



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NewbieActivity: 30Merit: 0 Re: DIY PCB with AVAlON - BitSyncom, need your help. March 30, 2013, 07:12:56 PM #3 From the various specs i found floating around, core is 256MHz, 1.15 - 1.2v. I/O is 8 lines at 3.3v. I worked out the chip would consume around 1700mW. That'll be at the core voltage so 1.5A per chip should do it. Easily within USB power limits even with a typical DC-DC stage.



Unless we can find a micro that can output a 256MHz secondary oscillator, we need an external oscillator block (if the core - i/o is asynchronous) or a PLL to multiply the micro oscillator.



I'm not a fan of making a through-hole soldering kit. Way too geeky and more expensive than a fully built and tested SMT device. While work with 250MHz, physical wiring tolerances are a concern. A large blob of solder in the wrong place may be OK at DC but at 250MHz, couples signals to other tracks. Happy to help with an SMT design.



I can't be of much help right now. On vacation with just a tablet!



Sam.





Tehfiend



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Hero MemberActivity: 491Merit: 514 Re: DIY PCB with AVAlON - BitSyncom, need your help. March 30, 2013, 07:41:53 PM #4



This is a great idea I've also been exploring.



Quote I do really hope that they will start to sell chips, because without them it can never happen. I have mailed/PMd them a couple of times and still nothing.

I also have been waiting for a response to my request for more info on purchasing bulk chips. I'm sure they are inundated with inquiries but it's been awhile since they added that info to the F.A.Q. so I wonder if anybody has learned anything yet.



Quote I worked out the chip would consume around 1700mW. That'll be at the core voltage so 1.5A per chip should do it.

How did you work that out exactly? My napkin calcs came up with a little more than 0.02A/chip. Each Avalon has 240 chips and uses 620w@120v AC. 620w@120v is 5.2A divided by 240 chips is 0.02A/chip. Edit: Obviously this doesn't account the power used by other components and PSU efficiency etc...



At any rate I also am very interested at producing smaller more affordable miners using Avalon chips and a DIY project might keep it out of the hands of the greedy and would be perfect for true believers. +1This is a great idea I've also been exploring.I also have been waiting for a response to my request for more info on purchasing bulk chips. I'm sure they are inundated with inquiries but it's been awhile since they added that info to the F.A.Q. so I wonder if anybody has learned anything yet.How did you work that out exactly? My napkin calcs came up with a little more than 0.02A/chip. Each Avalon has 240 chips and uses 620w@120v AC. 620w@120v is 5.2A divided by 240 chips is 0.02A/chip. Edit: Obviously this doesn't account the power used by other components and PSU efficiency etc...At any rate I also am very interested at producing smaller more affordable miners using Avalon chips and a DIY project might keep it out of the hands of the greedy and would be perfect for true believers.

SebastianJu



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LegendaryActivity: 2506Merit: 1046Legendary Escrow Service - Tip Jar in Profile Re: DIY PCB with AVAlON - BitSyncom, need your help. March 30, 2013, 07:46:35 PM #5 So you want to get the avalon chips offer they wrote about. 10000 chips minimum, right? I really would be interested if its possible to get the knowledge together to build something with these chips. But the first thing to find out would be if they will deliver the chips. I mean everything would base on this. Please ALWAYS contact me through bitcointalk pm before sending someone coins.

Tehfiend



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Hero MemberActivity: 491Merit: 514 Re: DIY PCB with AVAlON - BitSyncom, need your help. March 30, 2013, 08:01:18 PM

Last edit: March 31, 2013, 12:08:19 AM by Tehfiend #7 Quote Core voltage is 1.2V, not 120V.

Right but I did not state the core voltage was 120V. The stated power consumption of an Avalon is 620w @ 120v which is what I used in my estimate. If the core voltage is 1.2V then each chip uses ~24mW by my estimates. Right but I did not state the core voltage was 120V. The stated power consumption of an Avalon is 620w @ 120v which is what I used in my estimate. If the core voltage is 1.2V then each chip uses ~24mW by my estimates.

loshia



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LegendaryActivity: 1610Merit: 1000 Re: DIY PCB with AVAlON - BitSyncom, need your help. March 30, 2013, 08:04:00 PM #9 Quote from: ShadesOfMarble on March 30, 2013, 08:01:28 PM 1. 5V or 12V power

2. 1.2V DC-DC efficienct regulator module

3. avalon chips

4. ?

5. profit!



(Seriously, I don't think it's *that* easy...)

As long will help each other with our skills we will make it!

Who say's it is easy? It is not impossible right? Apart of the profit alone which matters it will bring us a lot of joy which money can not buy all the times As long will help each other with our skills we will make it!Who say's it is easy? It is not impossible right? Apart of the profit alone which matters it will bring us a lot of joy which money can not buy all the times

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=643999.msg7191563#msg7191563

And remember Bicknellski is not collecting money from community;D Please help the Led Boy aka Bicknellski to make us a nice Christmas led tree and pay WASP membership fee here:And remember Bicknellski is not collecting money from community;D

loshia



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LegendaryActivity: 1610Merit: 1000 Re: DIY PCB with AVAlON - BitSyncom, need your help. March 30, 2013, 09:36:37 PM

Last edit: March 30, 2013, 09:52:42 PM by loshia #11 Quote from: BitSyncom on March 30, 2013, 09:30:11 PM on the site, it clearly we are selling chips, just gotta get some documentation together before we can move forward.



it's a on going battle with ideology and pragmatism, this is going to take some time, but it'll come.



BitSyncom ,



What about providing your PCB design files+components list for a start?



It will save you a lot of time writing documentation. I am not saying documentation is useless but. I am sure that it will be helpful to hardware guys here to move forward while waiting for documentation. What do you think allten?





BitSyncom ,What about providing your PCB design files+components list for a start?It will save you a lot of time writing documentation. I am not saying documentation is useless but. I am sure that it will be helpful to hardware guys here to move forward while waiting for documentation. What do you think allten?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=643999.msg7191563#msg7191563

And remember Bicknellski is not collecting money from community;D Please help the Led Boy aka Bicknellski to make us a nice Christmas led tree and pay WASP membership fee here:And remember Bicknellski is not collecting money from community;D

allten



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Sr. MemberActivity: 450Merit: 250You Don't Bitcoin 'till You Mint Coin Re: DIY PCB with AVAlON - BitSyncom, need your help. March 30, 2013, 10:31:19 PM #13 Quote from: BitSyncom on March 30, 2013, 09:30:11 PM on the site, it clearly we are selling chips, just gotta get some documentation together before we can move forward.



it's a on going battle with ideology and pragmatism, this is going to take some time, but it'll come.



BitSyncom,

Thanks for chiming in!



Let me try pitching this idea to you at a different angle. I understand you would be very supportive

of this project and any others related; however, your plate is REALLY full. And I would assume you probably

feel a lot of reservation allowing something like this to progress without your constant input and guidance.

So, what do you do? Just brush it off?!?! until your ready? That would be understandable.



I believe there is a lot of programming talent lingering in these forums. And it has been painful for many of them

including myself sitting in the waiting room while a few companies try to give birth to an ASIC and deliver on

a mass scale. We would like jump in and be a part of it.



I think the amount of information required for us to get started is minimal. And I kindly ask for you to take

just a moment to give us some guidance and then just trust that we will do ok. Sure, we might mess up and

have to re spin a PCB design or two, but that is ok. We can finalize the firmware a few months from now

when the spec's are fully prepared.



Could you please answer two questions in the OP:



"My two biggest design hurdles at the moment:

1)Frequency driver for the Avalon ASIC. What is the input frequency?

I assume it has a clock multiplier, but if not I will need to reconsider that portion of

the design.



2) Having no idea how work is passed to the chip, would 8 data lines with a frequency

of 48 MHz cause a bottleneck? If so, by how much?"



Would you tell also tell us what the PINOUT is?



Would you sell us around 20 to 30 chips so we could build boards right away

and send them out to anyone that wants to help develop?



I think this is all we need to get started and we can worry about the finalization

a few months from now when the spec's are finalized. This would be so much

better than starting the project from scratch a few months from now. I think

it is potentially in your best interests as well. It would be like having an army of

engineers working for you for free.



Thanks for the consideration,

Allten BitSyncom,Thanks for chiming in!Let me try pitching this idea to you at a different angle. I understand you would be very supportiveof this project and any others related; however, your plate is REALLY full. And I would assume you probablyfeel a lot of reservation allowing something like this to progress without your constant input and guidance.So, what do you do? Just brush it off?!?! until your ready? That would be understandable.I believe there is a lot of programming talent lingering in these forums. And it has been painful for many of themincluding myself sitting in the waiting room while a few companies try to give birth to an ASIC and deliver ona mass scale. We would like jump in and be a part of it.I think the amount of information required for us to get started is minimal. And I kindly ask for you to takejust a moment to give us some guidance and then just trust that we will do ok. Sure, we might mess up andhave to re spin a PCB design or two, but that is ok. We can finalize the firmware a few months from nowwhen the spec's are fully prepared.Could you please answer two questions in the OP:"My two biggest design hurdles at the moment:1)Frequency driver for the Avalon ASIC. What is the input frequency?I assume it has a clock multiplier, but if not I will need to reconsider that portion ofthe design.2) Having no idea how work is passed to the chip, would 8 data lines with a frequencyof 48 MHz cause a bottleneck? If so, by how much?"Would you tell also tell us what the PINOUT is?Would you sell us around 20 to 30 chips so we could build boards right awayand send them out to anyone that wants to help develop?I think this is all we need to get started and we can worry about the finalizationa few months from now when the spec's are finalized. This would be so muchbetter than starting the project from scratch a few months from now. I thinkit is potentially in your best interests as well. It would be like having an army ofengineers working for you for free.Thanks for the consideration,Allten

Tehfiend



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Hero MemberActivity: 491Merit: 514 Re: DIY PCB with AVAlON - BitSyncom, need your help. March 30, 2013, 10:40:51 PM #14 Quote Would you sell us around 20 to 30 chips so we could build boards right away and send them out to anyone that wants to help develop?

I am looking into purchasing a minimum (10,000) chip order and will wholesale them to any developers who can't afford an entire batch. I am looking into purchasing a minimum (10,000) chip order and will wholesale them to any developers who can't afford an entire batch.

Gomeler



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Hero MemberActivity: 697Merit: 500 Re: DIY PCB with AVAlON - BitSyncom, need your help. March 30, 2013, 11:02:44 PM #15 Quote from: Tehfiend on March 30, 2013, 08:01:18 PM Quote Core voltage is 1.2V, not 120V.

Right but I did not state the core voltage was 120V. The stated power consumption of an Avalon is 620w @ 120v which is what I used in my estimate. If each chip does indeed use 1.5A each then an Avalon would use more than 43kW so that can't be right. If the core voltage is 1.2V then each chip uses ~24mW by my estimates.

Right but I did not state the core voltage was 120V. The stated power consumption of an Avalon is 620w @ 120v which is what I used in my estimate. If each chip does indeed use 1.5A each then an Avalon would use more than 43kW so that can't be right. If the core voltage is 1.2V then each chip uses ~24mW by my estimates.

Power consumption = amps * volts. Avalon's power consumption at the wall, through the PSU, is ~620w @ 120v, so 5.16 amps @ 120v. The PSU converts that down to +12vdc to feed each of the three modules, figuring ~80% efficiency let's just call that 500w of +12vdc. This is 41.6 amps of +12vdc. Now each module has groups of chips fed by a +12vdc to +1.2vdc converter to feed the cores. ~500w @ +12vdc divided by 240 chips = ~2w per chip BEFORE the losses of the +12vdc to +1.2vdc converter. Those are usually incredibly efficient, let's call it 95%, so 475w of +1.2vdc, 395 amps.



I'm sure I'm butchering all the math here with calculating PSU efficiencies and such but this shows 1.979 watts @ +1.2vdc or 1.64 amps per chip.



I hope this makes sense to you. With these numbers, 3 of their chips, which provides (63,000/240)*3=786MH/s could be powered by a USB port providing 0.5 amps @ +12vdc. Call it 2 chips to give a nice buffer under the 0.5 amp limit and you have a neat little device. It won't generate crap for BTC though.. better off targeting something in the 5-10 GH/s range. Power consumption = amps * volts. Avalon's power consumption at the wall, through the PSU, is ~620w @ 120v, so 5.16 amps @ 120v. The PSU converts that down to +12vdc to feed each of the three modules, figuring ~80% efficiency let's just call that 500w of +12vdc. This is 41.6 amps of +12vdc. Now each module has groups of chips fed by a +12vdc to +1.2vdc converter to feed the cores. ~500w @ +12vdc divided by 240 chips = ~2w per chip BEFORE the losses of the +12vdc to +1.2vdc converter. Those are usually incredibly efficient, let's call it 95%, so 475w of +1.2vdc, 395 amps.I'm sure I'm butchering all the math here with calculating PSU efficiencies and such but this shows 1.979 watts @ +1.2vdc or 1.64 amps per chip.I hope this makes sense to you. With these numbers, 3 of their chips, which provides (63,000/240)*3=786MH/s could be powered by a USB port providing 0.5 amps @ +12vdc. Call it 2 chips to give a nice buffer under the 0.5 amp limit and you have a neat little device. It won't generate crap for BTC though.. better off targeting something in the 5-10 GH/s range.

allten



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Sr. MemberActivity: 450Merit: 250You Don't Bitcoin 'till You Mint Coin Re: DIY PCB with AVAlON - BitSyncom, need your help. March 30, 2013, 11:07:59 PM #16 Quote from: Tehfiend on March 30, 2013, 10:40:51 PM Quote Would you sell us around 20 to 30 chips so we could build boards right away and send them out to anyone that wants to help develop?

I am looking into purchasing a minimum (10,000) chip order and will wholesale them to any developers who can't afford an entire batch.

I am looking into purchasing a minimum (10,000) chip order and will wholesale them to any developers who can't afford an entire batch.

Yeah, I appreciate that. Just hoping there will be some chips available for development when the time comes.

I guess I should have said sampled 20 to 30 parts followed by a purchase of tens of thousands of parts. Yeah, I appreciate that. Just hoping there will be some chips available for development when the time comes.I guess I should have said sampled 20 to 30 parts followed by a purchase of tens of thousands of parts.

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Hero MemberActivity: 697Merit: 500 Re: DIY PCB with AVAlON - BitSyncom, need your help. March 30, 2013, 11:12:46 PM #17 Quote from: allten on March 30, 2013, 11:07:59 PM Quote from: Tehfiend on March 30, 2013, 10:40:51 PM Quote Would you sell us around 20 to 30 chips so we could build boards right away and send them out to anyone that wants to help develop?

I am looking into purchasing a minimum (10,000) chip order and will wholesale them to any developers who can't afford an entire batch.

I am looking into purchasing a minimum (10,000) chip order and will wholesale them to any developers who can't afford an entire batch.

Yeah, I appreciate that. Just hoping there will be some chips available for development when the time comes.

I guess I should have said sampled 20 to 30 parts followed by a purchase of tens of thousands of parts.

Yeah, I appreciate that. Just hoping there will be some chips available for development when the time comes.I guess I should have said sampled 20 to 30 parts followed by a purchase of tens of thousands of parts.

I wonder if BitSyncom would consider distributing 5-10k chips to a trusted individual to serve as their developer contact. "Want to work with our chips? Contact xxx, provide $100 collateral, and we'll ship you 16 chips, the chip pinouts and specifications, and a sample controller to get started. Place an order for 10k chips and your collateral applies towards that order." I wonder if BitSyncom would consider distributing 5-10k chips to a trusted individual to serve as their developer contact. "Want to work with our chips? Contact xxx, provide $100 collateral, and we'll ship you 16 chips, the chip pinouts and specifications, and a sample controller to get started. Place an order for 10k chips and your collateral applies towards that order."

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NewbieActivity: 30Merit: 0 Re: DIY PCB with AVAlON - BitSyncom, need your help. March 30, 2013, 11:45:38 PM #18 Quote from: Gomeler on March 30, 2013, 11:02:44 PM Quote from: Tehfiend on March 30, 2013, 08:01:18 PM Quote Core voltage is 1.2V, not 120V.

Right but I did not state the core voltage was 120V. The stated power consumption of an Avalon is 620w @ 120v which is what I used in my estimate. If each chip does indeed use 1.5A each then an Avalon would use more than 43kW so that can't be right. If the core voltage is 1.2V then each chip uses ~24mW by my estimates.

Right but I did not state the core voltage was 120V. The stated power consumption of an Avalon is 620w @ 120v which is what I used in my estimate. If each chip does indeed use 1.5A each then an Avalon would use more than 43kW so that can't be right. If the core voltage is 1.2V then each chip uses ~24mW by my estimates.

Power consumption = amps * volts. Avalon's power consumption at the wall, through the PSU, is ~620w @ 120v, so 5.16 amps @ 120v. The PSU converts that down to +12vdc to feed each of the three modules, figuring ~80% efficiency let's just call that 500w of +12vdc. This is 41.6 amps of +12vdc. Now each module has groups of chips fed by a +12vdc to +1.2vdc converter to feed the cores. ~500w @ +12vdc divided by 240 chips = ~2w per chip BEFORE the losses of the +12vdc to +1.2vdc converter. Those are usually incredibly efficient, let's call it 95%, so 475w of +1.2vdc, 395 amps.



I'm sure I'm butchering all the math here with calculating PSU efficiencies and such but this shows 1.979 watts @ +1.2vdc or 1.64 amps per chip.



I hope this makes sense to you. With these numbers, 3 of their chips, which provides (63,000/240)*3=786MH/s could be powered by a USB port providing 0.5 amps @ +12vdc. Call it 2 chips to give a nice buffer under the 0.5 amp limit and you have a neat little device. It won't generate crap for BTC though.. better off targeting something in the 5-10 GH/s range.

Power consumption = amps * volts. Avalon's power consumption at the wall, through the PSU, is ~620w @ 120v, so 5.16 amps @ 120v. The PSU converts that down to +12vdc to feed each of the three modules, figuring ~80% efficiency let's just call that 500w of +12vdc. This is 41.6 amps of +12vdc. Now each module has groups of chips fed by a +12vdc to +1.2vdc converter to feed the cores. ~500w @ +12vdc divided by 240 chips = ~2w per chip BEFORE the losses of the +12vdc to +1.2vdc converter. Those are usually incredibly efficient, let's call it 95%, so 475w of +1.2vdc, 395 amps.I'm sure I'm butchering all the math here with calculating PSU efficiencies and such but this shows 1.979 watts @ +1.2vdc or 1.64 amps per chip.I hope this makes sense to you. With these numbers, 3 of their chips, which provides (63,000/240)*3=786MH/s could be powered by a USB port providing 0.5 amps @ +12vdc. Call it 2 chips to give a nice buffer under the 0.5 amp limit and you have a neat little device. It won't generate crap for BTC though.. better off targeting something in the 5-10 GH/s range.

The information i found stated 450W for 3 modules not including PSU. USB is 5VDC nominal +/- 5% limiting the device to 2.5W total. We'd need around 300 - 500mW for micro and clock generation. The rest of your math looks spot on.



So far I'm up to to around US$7 in parts, not including the Avalon chip, with a few technical assumptions. Assuming we'd get the avalon for $2 - $5, a unit price for a usb miner under $15 is realistic. For the next generation, hopefully they include a PLL on die!



Sam.

The information i found stated 450W for 3 modules not including PSU. USB is 5VDC nominal +/- 5% limiting the device to 2.5W total. We'd need around 300 - 500mW for micro and clock generation. The rest of your math looks spot on.So far I'm up to to around US$7 in parts, not including the Avalon chip, with a few technical assumptions. Assuming we'd get the avalon for $2 - $5, a unit price for a usb miner under $15 is realistic. For the next generation, hopefully they include a PLL on die!Sam.