WigglyTV Profile Joined April 2012 United States 4 Posts #2 Thanks for the build Tang! You've always been so helpful, and I've used your posts and tutorials to get myself up into top Diamond pushing Master's! "It's gonna be legendary"

everdrone Profile Joined June 2011 Russian Federation 22 Posts #3 nice build, i already used it, after game vs you ^^

TangSC Profile Blog Joined July 2011 Canada 1852 Posts Last Edited: 2012-08-09 21:31:06 #4



For those with a reddit account, please upvote! : Np WigglyTV, thanks for checking it outFor those with a reddit account, please upvote! : Reddit Link Coaching www.allin-academy.com | Team www.All-Inspiration.com

TangSC Profile Blog Joined July 2011 Canada 1852 Posts Last Edited: 2012-08-07 15:53:42 #5 On August 05 2012 04:34 everdrone wrote:

nice build, i already used it, after game vs you ^^

Haha I remember that Haha I remember that Coaching www.allin-academy.com | Team www.All-Inspiration.com

WollKnoll Profile Joined February 2011 Namibia 14 Posts #6 Hi



Once again a great guide. Alway enjoy to read them.

Keep up the great work. The guides help extremely alot. All players should read them......



Thank you

Sanchen Profile Joined June 2012 United States 2 Posts #7 Another great guide! Thanks for this Next month I will hopefully be able to get some coaching from you really looking forward for it.

monkxly Profile Blog Joined January 2009 Canada 241 Posts #8 really good guide, my student is reading all your guides right now ^_^ get a spire

Chaosvuistje Profile Joined April 2010 Netherlands 2579 Posts #9 Just to chime in a little.



The aggressive opening works best against opponents that have a later gas than yours. Especially against players that want to go for a Mutalisk based style. The no-gas invested speedlings will destroy spines and Queens and outright kill if the opponent went too greedy, and force out Banelings should the opponent have gone Baneling nest before ling speed ( which he will if he wants to be safe against these kinds of shenanigans ). Although I prefer to do that timing after the Hatch first opening rather than a 15 gas 15 pool opening because the aggression comes as more of a surprise than a pool-gas opening.



Also, why do you put the hatch up in the front? You know that you won't have to block against Banelings like that and you're just making your own top-of-the-ramp concave smaller. If you go up against players that react to scouting ( gasp! ) and they see a Roachwarren and a Hatch at the front ( without evochamber ) they will naturally delay their third and spine up. You're basically saying to the opponent "here's my build, deal with it" without even forcing him to scout the main. If I were to go for such a timing-attack based play, I would atleast hide my tech and my units for as long as possible.



--------------------



While the Mutalisk players didn't neccesarily play correctly against your style, I can definitely see me losing against this if I am caught off guard. It's hard to come back if the opponent runs Zerglings by into the main while you have to rely on your Spinecrawlers to hold back the huge Roach force. With the delayed tech on your side the only way to really respond to a Mutalisking player is to go for a massive 2 base desperation attack with Hydralisks and Infestors, but that's just the way it works if you delaye your lair for that long and it shouldn't really come to people as much of a surprise. Against good players, this will fail every so often if he knows what he is doing and scouts properly. Against bad players, well those only flip coins buildwise anyway and you can really beat them with whatever build as long as you know what damage you need to do and how to respond.

Salivanth Profile Blog Joined October 2010 Australia 1069 Posts Last Edited: 2012-08-05 11:42:18 #10 This build seems really good. I love the Economic opening. Really powers drones hard and then hits hard, but has a great transition waiting with the double Evo chambers. Will have to try it out! Your other ZvZ build is more aggressive than I like, but this one seems dead-on. I like to attack, but I don't like all-ins. Your link to the Optimal Economic Opening appears to be meant for editing the post though, instead of linking to an actual post. <@Wikt> so you are one of those nega-fans <@Wikt> that hates the company that makes a game and everything they stand for <@Wikt> but still plays the game <@Wikt> (like roughly 30% of blizzard's player base, maybe much more...)

TangSC Profile Blog Joined July 2011 Canada 1852 Posts Last Edited: 2012-08-07 15:17:36 #11 On August 05 2012 17:19 Chaosvuistje wrote:

Just to chime in a little.



The aggressive opening works best against opponents that have a later gas than yours. Especially against players that want to go for a Mutalisk based style. The no-gas invested speedlings will destroy spines and Queens and outright kill if the opponent went too greedy, and force out Banelings should the opponent have gone Baneling nest before ling speed ( which he will if he wants to be safe against these kinds of shenanigans ). Although I prefer to do that timing after the Hatch first opening rather than a 15 gas 15 pool opening because the aggression comes as more of a surprise than a pool-gas opening.



I actually like the aggressive opening most against players who do earlier gas than me, like 14gas/14pool 20 hatch, because I feel like the economic lead I get early will give me the edge to overwhelm their expansion, but I agree that it is nice against players who do hatch-first into mutas because you will delay their tech by forcing banelings. I've seen Stephano do hatch-first variations of speedling pressure, which arrives only slightly later and is often unexpected, like you say. I actually like the aggressive opening most against players who do earlier gas than me, like 14gas/14pool 20 hatch, because I feel like the economic lead I get early will give me the edge to overwhelm their expansion, but I agree that it is nice against players who do hatch-first into mutas because you will delay their tech by forcing banelings. I've seen Stephano do hatch-first variations of speedling pressure, which arrives only slightly later and is often unexpected, like you say. Coaching www.allin-academy.com | Team www.All-Inspiration.com

TangSC Profile Blog Joined July 2011 Canada 1852 Posts #12 On August 05 2012 17:19 Chaosvuistje wrote:



Also, why do you put the hatch up in the front? You know that you won't have to block against Banelings like that and you're just making your own top-of-the-ramp concave smaller. If you go up against players that react to scouting ( gasp! ) and they see a Roachwarren and a Hatch at the front ( without evochamber ) they will naturally delay their third and spine up. You're basically saying to the opponent "here's my build, deal with it" without even forcing him to scout the main. If I were to go for such a timing-attack based play, I would atleast hide my tech and my units for as long as possible.



That hatchery has saved me from so many roach/ling, roach/ling/baneling, ling/baneling, and even just ling timing attacks. Though it's not ideal that he delay his third and spine up, I'm not as worried about that as I am about dying early on. That hatchery has saved me from so many roach/ling, roach/ling/baneling, ling/baneling, and even just ling timing attacks. Though it's not ideal that he delay his third and spine up, I'm not as worried about that as I am about dying early on. Coaching www.allin-academy.com | Team www.All-Inspiration.com

TangSC Profile Blog Joined July 2011 Canada 1852 Posts #13 On August 05 2012 20:34 Salivanth wrote:

This build seems really good. I love the Economic opening. Really powers drones hard and then hits hard, but has a great transition waiting with the double Evo chambers. Will have to try it out! Your other ZvZ build is more aggressive than I like, but this one seems dead-on. I like to attack, but I don't like all-ins. Your link to the Optimal Economic Opening appears to be meant for editing the post though, instead of linking to an actual post.

Updated the link, thanks for the tip! Updated the link, thanks for the tip! Coaching www.allin-academy.com | Team www.All-Inspiration.com

NoisyNinja Profile Joined February 2011 United States 991 Posts #14 Good build. I'm noticing that you MUST hit the timings as closely as possible otherwise your opponent will have enough time to react to this push. Is it just me not executing this build properly or is this what others (Tang) have noticed also?

TangSC Profile Blog Joined July 2011 Canada 1852 Posts #15 On August 08 2012 08:52 NoisyNinja wrote:

Good build. I'm noticing that you MUST hit the timings as closely as possible otherwise your opponent will have enough time to react to this push. Is it just me not executing this build properly or is this what others (Tang) have noticed also?

Well it is important to hit the timings...if you're hitting 15 seconds late that could be the difference of your opponent having mutalisks on the field, or an upgrade could finish in that time. Well it is important to hit the timings...if you're hitting 15 seconds late that could be the difference of your opponent having mutalisks on the field, or an upgrade could finish in that time. Coaching www.allin-academy.com | Team www.All-Inspiration.com

AFSpeeDy Profile Joined June 2011 126 Posts #16



Won both of them easy.



First game i catched him completely offguard and won easily.

Second Game i just had more units cause of the macro hatch. (I played both games macro opening)



So great thanks to you Tang^^, Now its: Yay ZvZ and not uuh ZvZ -.-. Just tried it out two games in a row, so my timings were not perfect.Won both of them easy.First game i catched him completely offguard and won easily.Second Game i just had more units cause of the macro hatch.(I played both games macro opening)So great thanks to you Tang^^, Now its: Yay ZvZ and not uuh ZvZ -.-.

TangSC Profile Blog Joined July 2011 Canada 1852 Posts Last Edited: 2012-08-09 02:32:59 #17 On August 09 2012 02:02 ArkanTos wrote:

First game i catched him completely offguard and won easily.

Haha that should happen a lot especially if you can make it to the 38 drone count earlier than your opponent does. Haha that should happen a lotespecially if you can make it to the 38 drone count earlier than your opponent does. Coaching www.allin-academy.com | Team www.All-Inspiration.com

Xana Profile Joined March 2011 Denmark 128 Posts Last Edited: 2012-08-09 02:57:15 #18 In my experience this kind of build outright dies to the semi-standard Ling/Spine into Infestor play, especially because your roaches have no speed. If I runby with +1/1 slings immediately as you move out I see no way in hell you can both kill me and defend your bases. -Especially since you skip a baneling nest. If you do choose to attack into a spinewall with drones and lings pulled to keep you in place, I just cannot imagine you winning said engagement. +0 attack roaches really suck vs +1/1 speedlings.



So I guess my question boils down to; When you move out and you see the massive runby when you're mid map, how will you respond? Will you attempt to return and salvage what can be saved, or will you attempt to push into what could be an extremely well spined base? He who walks arrives.

doggy Profile Joined May 2010 Germany 306 Posts Last Edited: 2012-08-09 10:15:47 #19 What do you do against 1-1 ling builds?



Dont you think its better to not cut the bane nest? It helps you in multiple ways:



a) you will be able to fend off speedling/ling bling allins a lot more easily



b) you will be able to mix banes into your allin if you scout your opponent having only lings spines and banes



c) you will be able to make a minimum amount of defense at home to be safe of ling counters









Im really interested to get to know why you think this small investment is not worth it. Or do you have to cut every possible corner to make your builds work...?

Xana Profile Joined March 2011 Denmark 128 Posts #20 c) you will be able to make a minimum amount of defense at home to be safe of ling counters



^ As the above poster said, this is vital. Even so, vs someone who's good at splitting up his lings, you won't hold a counterattack. Assuming you block your ramp off immediately, you still lose everything in your natural.

He who walks arrives.

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