Marek Jurek is a conservative representative for Poland in the European Parliament. In the following French-language interview with TV Libertés he discusses EU attempts to impose migrant quotas on member states in Central Europe, and other topics of interest.

Many thanks to Ava Lon for the translation, and to Vlad Tepes for the subtitling:

Transcript:

00:41 Marek Jurek, thank you for agreeing to this interview. We are at the European Parliament in Strasbourg.

00:45 You are a Polish European representative, and a former president of the Polish Parliament.

00:49 Could you please tell us a couple of words about yourself for our audience?

00:53 For our French-speaking audience, which perhaps doesn’t know you

00:58 very well. —Yes. I started my political work

01:02 at the end of the seventies;

01:06 it was completely different at that time. It was a movement of young Poles,

01:10 a secret movement, the first movement of Catholic youth,

01:14 a right-wing political movement; and now here

01:19 to jump to the end of my work: I working on the commission

01:23 of the exterior, the commission of civil liberties,

01:27 the commission for defense; I am a member

01:31 of the conservative group in Poland; I preside

01:35 at the Right of the Republic — it’s a Catholic party

01:39 of the independent right; which is called in France the “other right”.

01:43 But you are nevertheless more or less associated with PiS [Law and Justice party];

01:47 how come? You were elected from the common list, I think? — We were

01:51 in coalition; our colleges from PiS

01:55 preferred to work alone, so

02:00 we are an independent party, but of course we defend

02:04 all the good initiatives by the government when it is attacked by

02:08 the liberal opposition and by foreign institutions, of course.

02:12 You mention the EU, among other things

02:16 the PiS government, which when elected at the end of 2015 was very strongly criticized

02:20 by the EU; there were even quite hysterical debates in the European Parliament.

02:24 The liberal opposition is also pretty hysterical. They blocked

02:28 the Parliament for several weeks, the Polish Parliament. So how do you

02:33 see all those attacks against the initiatives

02:37 of the new Polish government? —I think

02:41 the Polish government was attacked in the same way

02:45 that last year the Hungarian government [was attacked], because

02:49 the liberal establishment, left wing liberal,

02:53 of the EU doesn’t accept the right wing governments of Central Europe,

02:57 because for us the first societal priority

03:02 was: to change society after a long

03:06 period of communist slavery. Because

03:10 the countries that were part of

03:14 the free world after WW2, often consider communism

03:18 an authoritarian regime, a political dictatorship.

03:22 This is absolutely false: because it was a totalitarian system

03:26 that completely wrecked life of society

03:30 and that destroyed old organisms

03:34 of the social communities, replacing them with false elites

03:39 by a dominant class, which, in the end, as we say,

03:43 changed the ID of the communist party

03:47 into a control at the dentist [word play lost in translation]; membership in the communist party

03:51 into membership in the board of directors

03:55 of big companies. So, in Hungary,

03:59 in Poland, in many other countries of

04:04 Central Europe, we need to change society deeply, for example by reestablishing free speech:

04:12 the real condition of public debate. Because with the concentration of the media

04:20 of the same type, that is completely

04:24 tied to the liberal establishment

04:28 of the Left, we didn’t have the conditions

04:32 for a true debate, for the criticism of the government, for example, or for

04:36 defending the government if we won the elections.

04:41 So the measures

04:45 taken by the Hungarian government were totally

04:49 Legitimate, and, in the name of free speech,

04:53 they should have to be supported by Western countries.

04:57 Unfortunately, they were attacked. It was similar with the change

05:01 in Poland, because Polish people decided

05:05 to change the government, to break up with

05:09 the liberal system,

05:14 Decided to turn the country towards conservative values,

05:18 towards the reinforcement of our sovereignty.

05:22 And it’s not only the question of

05:26 the choice of the Law and Justice party. Because

05:30 it’s not only a question of the PiS government.

05:34 Because this trend of change, represented for example by the movement of

05:38 Paweł Kukiz, who won three million votes

05:43 in the presidential election and over a million in the

05:47 parliamentary elections. The list of Mr. [unintelligible]and Mikke

05:51 and others, so the big majority of

05:55 the country voted for the right. And of course

05:59 it was totally contested by

06:03 the EU establishment,

06:07 the liberal establishment of the majority

06:12 of the countries of the Western Europe. —Exactly

06:16 this non-liberal turn, to use the expression used by Hungarian Prime Minister Victor Orbán,

06:20 that we saw a little later in Poland, was it

06:24 precisely the symbol of the failure of liberalism,

06:28 of the opening to capitalism in the countries former members of the Warsaw Pact,

06:32 and also the symbol of the failure of the promises

06:36 of the adhesion to the EU, since those countries

06:41 hoped, Poland and the others, hoped for a better standard of living

06:45 and so on, and in the end the balance sheet isn’t that good? — We are very

06:49 attached to our freedom, to freedom in all the areas.

06:53 Freedom of speech, political freedom, especially

06:57 economic freedom; now freedom alone

07:01 is the foundation of common good, because all the…

07:05 everybody… every community that belongs to the EU

07:09 national community has to be the owner of its own freedom.

07:14 Liberalism rather negates the common good.

07:18 Therefore our choice

07:22 was a choice of sovereignty and the rejection of

07:26 permanent intrusion, interference from the EU

07:30 on the direction of our policies, in areas such as, for example,

07:34 immigration, because a for the last couple of months before the elections

07:38 we witnessed a constant pressure

07:43 to impose the migration policy, not only the migration policy,

07:47 but also the multicultural model that was forced on the people

07:51 of Western Europe, also on our country and other countries

07:55 of Central Europe. Of course

07:59 it’s the choice of the natural law of defense of

08:03 the values of life, of family, that are totally

08:07 not only questioned but negated, for example

08:12 by the institution of the EU,

08:16 and of course, as I said, it was rejection of

08:20 post-communism, so the choice of the social change

08:24 that has to reinforce the freedom of Polish people. So it wasn’t our rejection of liberalism,

08:32 it was the rejection of a system

08:37 that has no mandate, especially not in our country,

08:41 to bring up the values of freedom, because

08:45 it represents rather a domination

08:49 By the establishment talking about freedom,

08:53 when it wants to destroy the natural community,

08:57 the sovereign competency of the state,

09:01 or the principal of natural law.

09:05 And we are the ones defending freedom.

09:10 Exactly. Last year there was a lot of talk about the law that was in fact

09:14 a citizen initiative, to make access to abortion more difficult,

09:18 finally it was rejected by the government, it made a lot of noise,

09:22 perhaps even more in the international press

09:26 than in Poland, I don’t know; how do you see

09:30 the blow which was delivered against this project? — I think that

09:34 protection of life is necessary for every society, because it is

09:38 the first of our freedoms:

09:43 The freedom to be born.

09:47 Because all life starts with

09:51 conception,

09:55 but it is conditioned by the act of birth

09:59 Therefore the defense of the unborn baby

10:03 is a movement and a legal solution necessary

10:07 for a civilized society.

10:12 And of course it’s a negation of the today’s barbarism, but it’s morally necessary.

10:20 Concerning the Right of the Republic party, we were totally in solidarity

10:24 with the initiative Stop Abortion,

10:28 with their popular initiative, and we are very disappointed

10:32 that unfortunately the majority of our politicians,

10:36 raised under the pressure of the EU Parliament

10:41 and of the foreign pressure at the same time, that they surrendered

10:45 before that black revolution that was organized

10:49 in Poland. And I think that unfortunately

10:53 the beginning of this failure was in the realm

10:57 of ideas, because many politicians said that

11:01 The question of the right to live

11:06 was a very important demand but

11:10 Concerned the individual conscience,

11:14 the subjective individual conscience.

11:18 We’re convinced that it’s a question of

11:22 the clear disposition of every healthy conscience,

11:26 so unfortunately… we should have defended life,

11:30 and not surrendered before that revolution supported

11:34 by foreign countries, but the fight isn’t over, because

11:39 we will carry on, since Poland resisted

11:43 the civilization of the death since 1956, when the abortion law

11:47 was imposed by the communists in our country.

11:51 So another subject that causes talk about Poland is the migration question,

11:55 with the questions of quotas for the settlement of migrants and so on,

11:59 which in fact reinforced or almost re-launched the Visegrad Group

12:03 the association among Poland, Czechia, Slovakia and Hungary that had been

12:08 almost non-existent for the last couple of years. What perspectives

12:12 do you see for cooperation between those four countries of Central Europe?

12:16 I think that we have efficiently blocked that

12:20 policy of administrative distribution

12:24 of immigrants to different European countries. It’s very clear now that unfortunately

12:32 this migratory flow was inspired by politicians

12:36 from Germany, from the EU,

12:41 because for example the declaration by Mr. Juncker, the president of the

12:45 European Commission, who said many times that we have to open

12:49 the legal routes for migration,

12:53 that we have to prepare those routes,

12:57 it was a sort of promise

13:01 to legalize illegal immigration.

13:05 So it was certainly the inspiration for those wretched people

13:10 to be manipulated and used by

13:14 the illegal immigration mafia,

13:18 this great business in Libya,

13:22 in other countries, which we are now sure

13:26 is often also manipulated by the Islamic State,

13:30 the Caliphate of the Islamic State; so it’s also

13:35 a very serious danger to European security.

13:39 But generally I think that we should always

13:43 live with a spirit of compassion,

13:47 but also of responsibility. Because those people were

13:51 encouraged in that illegal immigration,

13:55 which was inspired by the establishment in the dominant countries

13:59 in Europe, and by the direction of the EU.

14:03 Fortunately the governments of the Central European countries,

14:08 especially the four countries of the Visegrad Group,

14:12 we organized an efficient resistance

14:16 up till now, against that policy of

14:20 administrative protection, of multiculturalism.

14:24 We never contest

14:28 individual immigration, because those are individual cases.

14:33 We contest this societal model,

14:37 which negates the identity of Western European people

14:41 that was imposed by the establishment

14:45 of this country. We are — in a very aware way — rejecting this

14:49 societal model. What is interesting in Central Europe is

14:53 that the Visegrad Group countries are today ruled by

14:58 representatives of different European political “families”, because

15:02 in the Czech Republic we have a liberal government, in Slovakia

15:06 a leftist government, in Poland a government

15:10 associated with European Conservative Association,

15:14 in Hungary a Christian Democratic government.

15:18 Those are… this is the entire European political landscape

15:22 from left to right, but who —

15:27 in Central Europe— reject,

15:31 refuse to copy

15:35 this social model which was unfortunately

15:39 recklessly approved in Western Europe.

15:43 I’m saying “recklessly”, because, for example

15:47 I am sure that the current situation

15:51 in France, in Germany was never

15:55 the object of a democratic vote. It was an evolution

16:00 while public opinion was anaesthetized

16:04 for decades. Now we have a situation

16:08 that is extremely difficult for those countries;

16:12 that we understand very well, but we haven’t copied this social model, because

16:16 we have many things to fix in our country, many difficulties

16:20 that still exist, caused by

16:24 our experience of almost half a century of Soviet domination.

16:28 So the last subject that is important for Poland

16:32 in the recent news is the election of Donald Trump in the USA,

16:36 which could potentially have two major influences

16:40 on Poland: that there would be perhaps less intense foreign pressure

16:44 concerning social questions, where the government

16:48 will be willing to start different reforms; the other effect

16:53 on the Polish government is that the future president Trump quite clearly declared that

16:57 he was considering reducing the financial participation of

17:01 the USA in NATO, the system of common defense, and

17:05 giving that relations between Poland and Russia are still very complicated,

17:09 I would like to have your opinion concerning the prospects we can perhaps expect for Poland,

17:13 also in the case of relations between Europe and Russia,

17:18 as a result of the election of Mr Trump. —Of course

17:22 what happened in America is analogous with

17:26 the changes in Poland and in Hungary, because it was a fall of the progressive establishment,

17:34 which was rejected by the people

17:38 in favor of conservative values. If it’s about the personal presidential policy

17:42 of the new American president, it’s always an open question.

17:47 You asked about our activity in

17:55 the context of NATO: We are one of four

17:59 European countries whose

18:03 financial contributions

18:07 are proportional in terms of defense, so

18:11 I am sure that we will keep

18:15 strong ties — in the area of defense —

18:20 with the United States concerning

18:24 the demands that other countries contribute more

18:28 for the common defense, which are totally understandable.

18:32 Concerning the Russian question, it’s —

18:36 we will see, it’s the country that annexed Crimea.

18:40 It’s a situation with no precedent

18:44 in Europe, at least in Continental Europe. After being —

18:48 after a second war… no, Kosovo was a separation;

18:53 it was a separation I was against.

18:57 I was partisan for absolutely keeping

19:01 the disposition of the decision of the UN

19:05 for the autonomy of Kosovo, and not for proclaiming it an independent state…

19:09 but what happened in Kosovo was a pretext

19:13 for the Russian invasion of Georgia,

19:17 which created satellite political organisms.

19:22 But Crimea is an annexation.

19:26 We mentioned the invasion of Georgia.

19:30 We are watching Moldova

19:34 the Dniester region. So Russia is a country that

19:38 didn’t approved of the political consequences of the disappearance of the Soviet Union.

19:42 President Putin declared, “It was the greatest political tragedy

19:47 of the 20th century”: the fall of the Evil Empire.

19:51 So I think that we need to still

19:55 stay in solidarity and show caution

19:59 towards Russia, but this week we present

20:03 with my friend Ujazdowski our initiative in the Polish press

20:07 addressing also the new American policy.

20:11 We expect

20:16 from the United States of America

20:20 either an efficient military solidarity, or initiatives that would diminish

20:28 Russian military pressure on Poland: for example the talks about

20:36 the demilitarization of the region of Königsberg,

20:40 Królewiec, which is called Kaliningrad

20:44 in Russian. But our ministry,

20:49 our liberal government

20:53 decided that in our diplomatic language use

20:57 we wouldn’t the name Kaliningrad,

21:01 because Kalinin was one of the signatories

21:05 of the decision concerning the massacre [of 5000 Polish officers in WW2] at Katyń.

21:09 So we don’t think he was a person who deserves

21:13 to be commemorated in the name of an important European town. But I think that we need to talk.

21:22 This region is a part of Russia, but the density

21:26 of military forces, or even the possibility

21:30 of using the nuclear weapons in that region,

21:34 is a great danger, not only for our region, but also for

21:38 European security. So we think that we need to either defend

21:42 Central Europe against Russian pressure, or

21:47 talk with Russians concerning the decrease

21:51 of military pressure on our region, because

21:55 our national aspiration, for half a century, when

21:59 we resisted communist domination,

22:03 was independence and peace, and we

22:07 want simply live in peace and security.

22:11 So you are a proponent of dialogue with Russia, and not

22:16 of an escalation, never-ending conflict, of tension.

22:20 What do you think, how could a balanced dialogue be established,

22:24 that could also satisfy

22:28 Aspirations for the defense of Poland? —We expect from Russia

22:32 an acceptance of the independence

22:36 of the states that were born after

22:40 the disintegration of the Soviet Union.

22:44 Because if Russia doesn’t want

22:49 to be identified with the Soviet Union,

22:53 it has to break with this illegitimate legacy

22:57 of the Empire that was

23:01 a prison of peoples.

23:05 I think that in Europe we have to be unanimous