

JGROCKY

Premium Member

join:2005-05-19

Chatham, ON JGROCKY Premium Member The Bell Disclosure! 080623_CAIP ··· ABR.zip

352,538 bytes Here it is boys and girls... Have fun dissecting it!



milnoc

join:2001-03-05

Ottawa milnoc Member Igor! Prepare the lab!



HiVolt

Premium Member

join:2000-12-28

Toronto, ON HiVolt to JGROCKY

Premium Member to JGROCKY

The numbers... Can I be the first one to say... WTF? Congestion?



BACONATOR26

Premium Member

join:2000-11-25

Nepean, ON BACONATOR26 Premium Member said by HiVolt:



The numbers... Can I be the first one to say... WTF? Congestion?

The numbers... Can I be the first one to say... WTF? Congestion? Seriously WTF?? How can the CRTC still be investigating. This is an open and shut case, there cannot be any congestion.

Jman99

join:2007-04-24

Etobicoke, ON Jman99 to JGROCKY

Member to JGROCKY

laughable.



JGROCKY

Premium Member

join:2005-05-19

Chatham, ON JGROCKY to BACONATOR26

Premium Member to BACONATOR26

Definitely an interesting table... no doubt!



PXA

Tech Ninja

Premium Member

join:2008-04-02

Ottawa, ON PXA to HiVolt

Premium Member to HiVolt

said by HiVolt:



The numbers... Can I be the first one to say... WTF? Congestion?

The numbers... Can I be the first one to say... WTF? Congestion? This is seriously what they're basing their case on? If this doesn't prove they're being anti-competitive, I don't know what will. Though undeniable proof doesn't guarantee anything when the CRTC is involved.



BACONATOR26

Premium Member

join:2000-11-25

Nepean, ON BACONATOR26 to JGROCKY

Premium Member to JGROCKY

After a close examination it does say percent of congested links (out of several thousand) but the critical threshold would probably be around 10%. Taking the highest percent before DPI which is 6.6%, that's still not high and if it's that bad it would not have been that expensive to upgrade those links.



shopkins

join:2008-05-23

L4N8J7 shopkins to JGROCKY

Member to JGROCKY

From what I read Bell basically shows that their current capacity is nearly 5X the current demand and they are expanding their capacity.



I understand peak vs off times, but I am not buying their arguments.

Topher92

join:2008-06-07

Mississauga, ON Topher92 to JGROCKY

Member to JGROCKY

All of the percentages are lower! I'd hate to see what they would claim if the percentages actually went up slightly!



Now we need a class action lawsuit against Bell for their illegal practices. Then institute a regulatory committee to oversee the industry to ensure these kinds of things don't happen again. Then the CRTC should split Bell into two separate companies, one for the hardware, and one for the services, that way the "last mile" is out of their hands, since they've proven they can't be trusted with it. Failing that, all of the small ISPs should band together and get a large backer to bring fibre lines to Canada and watch Bell and Rogers play catch up. We've been shafted for far too long by this duopoly!



Bellundo

@teksavvy.com Bellundo to JGROCKY

Anon to JGROCKY

That was to be expected seeing most people have a 60 gigabyte a month cap.



JGROCKY

Premium Member

join:2005-05-19

Chatham, ON JGROCKY to Topher92

Premium Member to Topher92

I'm curious as to what the throughput is on those Ellacoya boxes.... Can they go more than 1,000Mbps (or even that fast)? Anyone?



BACONATOR26

Premium Member

join:2000-11-25

Nepean, ON BACONATOR26 Premium Member said by JGROCKY:



I'm curious as to what the throughput is on those Ellacoya boxes.... Can they go more than 1,000Mbps (or even that fast)? Anyone?

I'm curious as to what the throughput is on those Ellacoya boxes.... Can they go more than 1,000Mbps (or even that fast)? Anyone? I thought I read that the newer models can handle as much as 750 Mbps but Bell has also installed several in each city.

Mantiz

join:2008-04-02

Markham, ON Mantiz to JGROCKY

Member to JGROCKY



»www.arbornetworks.com/en ··· ogy.html



Arbor Ellacoya e30:

Support up to 64,000 subscribers at 4 Gbps speed.



Arbor Ellacoya e100:

Support up to 500,000 subscribers at 20 Gbps speed. From Arbor's websiteArbor Ellacoya e30:Support up to 64,000 subscribers at 4 Gbps speed.Arbor Ellacoya e100:Support up to 500,000 subscribers at 20 Gbps speed.



JGROCKY

Premium Member

join:2005-05-19

Chatham, ON JGROCKY Premium Member said by Mantiz:



From Arbor's website

»www.arbornetworks.com/en ··· ogy.html



Arbor Ellacoya e30:

Support up to 64,000 subscribers at 4 Gbps speed.



Arbor Ellacoya e100:

Support up to 500,000 subscribers at 20 Gbps speed.

From Arbor's websiteArbor Ellacoya e30:Support up to 64,000 subscribers at 4 Gbps speed.Arbor Ellacoya e100:Support up to 500,000 subscribers at 20 Gbps speed. Any price tags on these?

mr_hexen

join:2007-08-02

Brampton, ON mr_hexen to BACONATOR26

Member to BACONATOR26

said by BACONATOR26:



After a close examination it does say percent of congested links (out of several thousand) but the critical threshold would probably be around 10%. Taking the highest percent before DPI which is 6.6%, that's still not high and if it's that bad it would not have been that expensive to upgrade those links.

After a close examination it does say percent of congested links (out of several thousand) but the critical threshold would probably be around 10%. Taking the highest percent before DPI which is 6.6%, that's still not high and if it's that bad it would not have been that expensive to upgrade those links.



here are the utilization limits for congested as per Bell Canada:



DS-3 61%, OC-3 84%, OC-12 and OC-48 90%.



so, for one of those links to be considered "congested" and added to that low % graph the following has to occur (using DS-3 links as an example).



Over a 14 day period, utilization measurements are taken every 15 minutes. (snap shot of usage at that time). the limit of 61% must be exceeded atleast ONCE on 5 seperate days over that 14 day period.



what that means is that for the total UP TIME of a link over that 14 days (in minutes) is 20,160 minutes (24hrs x 60min x 14 days). The link must only be above 61% for a TOTAL 75 of those minutes to be considered "congested", or 0.37% of it's available time. Lets also not forget that there could be a sudden spike of usage right at that 15 minute mark and then die down, but i'll assume the entire 15 minute interval is at that level for simplicity, lol.



UHMM... OK. not to mention the CRITERIA for getting ito that count of "congested links".here are the utilization limits for congested as per Bell Canada:DS-3 61%, OC-3 84%, OC-12 and OC-48 90%.so, for one of those links to be considered "congested" and added to that low % graph the following has to occur (using DS-3 links as an example).Over a 14 day period, utilization measurements are taken every 15 minutes. (snap shot of usage at that time). the limit of 61% must be exceeded atleast ONCE on 5 seperate days over that 14 day period.what that means is that for the total UP TIME of a link over that 14 days (in minutes) is 20,160 minutes (24hrs x 60min x 14 days). The link must only be above 61% for a TOTAL 75 of those minutes to be considered "congested", or 0.37% of it's available time. Lets also not forget that there could be a sudden spike of usage right at that 15 minute mark and then die down, but i'll assume the entire 15 minute interval is at that level for simplicity, lol.UHMM... OK.

Mantiz

join:2008-04-02

Markham, ON Mantiz to JGROCKY

Member to JGROCKY

said by JGROCKY:



said by Mantiz:



From Arbor's website

»www.arbornetworks.com/en ··· ogy.html



Arbor Ellacoya e30:

Support up to 64,000 subscribers at 4 Gbps speed.



Arbor Ellacoya e100:

Support up to 500,000 subscribers at 20 Gbps speed.

From Arbor's websiteArbor Ellacoya e30:Support up to 64,000 subscribers at 4 Gbps speed.Arbor Ellacoya e100:Support up to 500,000 subscribers at 20 Gbps speed.

Any price tags on these? I imagine the pricing is secret. Consumers would likely get upset seeing their ISP's spending money to cripple their service>



JGROCKY

Premium Member

join:2005-05-19

Chatham, ON JGROCKY Premium Member All of our DSL is over AGAS, which is over Ethernet... I'm reading through this... Did I miss any of the disclosures on Ethernet Statistics? Don't think I see any...



andyb

Premium Member

join:2003-05-29

SW Ontario andyb Premium Member Half the disclosure is still missing.Filed in confidence again.

mr_hexen

join:2007-08-02

Brampton, ON mr_hexen Member said by andyb:



Half the disclosure is still missing.Filed in confidence again.

Half the disclosure is still missing.Filed in confidence again.



what they did was take the public document that had all the confidentiality "#" and replaced those with data that was requested, which is why some appears to be kept secret. they only disclosed the information requested by the CRTC.what they did was take the public document that had all the confidentiality "#" and replaced those with data that was requested, which is why some appears to be kept secret.



Mirko five_perct

@mc.videotron.ca Mirko five_perct to HiVolt

Anon to HiVolt

said by HiVolt:



The numbers... Can I be the first one to say... WTF? Congestion?

The numbers... Can I be the first one to say... WTF? Congestion?



"While these numbers may seem low to the average lay person, they are significant to network traffic engineers".



k? Hivolt, per the publicly filed report:"While these numbers may seem low to the average lay person, they are significant to network traffic engineers".k?



HiVolt

Premium Member

join:2000-12-28

Toronto, ON HiVolt Premium Member said by Mirko five_perct :



Hivolt, per the publicly filed report:



"While these numbers may seem low to the average lay person, they are significant to network traffic engineers".



k?

I read that... I don't buy it.



k? I read that... I don't buy it.k?



JGROCKY

Premium Member

join:2005-05-19

Chatham, ON JGROCKY Premium Member Still begs the question of the ethernet side... Bell's network is being converted to it and most of their investments have gone to it.



Mirko five_perct

@mc.videotron.ca Mirko five_perct to HiVolt

Anon to HiVolt

said by HiVolt:



said by Mirko five_perct :



Hivolt, per the publicly filed report:



"While these numbers may seem low to the average lay person, they are significant to network traffic engineers".



k?

I read that... I don't buy it.



k?

I read that... I don't buy it.k? ditto... K!



sibisties8

join:2002-10-19

Montreal, QC sibisties8 Member I love the last graph that shows "cell loss" ! That's not caused by congestion, it's their DPI boxes that are dropping packets !



JGROCKY

Premium Member

join:2005-05-19

Chatham, ON JGROCKY to HiVolt

Premium Member to HiVolt

said by HiVolt:



The numbers... Can I be the first one to say... WTF? Congestion?

The numbers... Can I be the first one to say... WTF? Congestion? Just realised... How can they put a "total" to those values... They don't relate... They all have different thresholds and mechanisms to deal with packet-loss or load. They'd need to talk on a case by case, not on a global... Some of this is on a customer to customer issue other portions are on a more aggregated level....



BACONATOR26

Premium Member

join:2000-11-25

Nepean, ON BACONATOR26 Premium Member said by JGROCKY: said by HiVolt:



The numbers... Can I be the first one to say... WTF? Congestion?

The numbers... Can I be the first one to say... WTF? Congestion?

Just realised... How can they put a "total" to those values... They don't relate... They all have different thresholds and mechanisms to deal with packet-loss or load. They'd need to talk on a case by case, not on a global... Some of this is on a customer to customer issue other portions are on a more aggregated level.... Excellent points, you should make sure these points are relayed in CAIP's reply.



Spike

Premium Member

join:2008-05-16

Toronto, ON Spike to JGROCKY

Premium Member to JGROCKY

Just what do they mean by the Backbone percentages? Are they referring to the internet backbone uplinks? If so these wouldn't even apply to wholesaler AGAS.

zinc

Premium Member

join:2004-02-17

Kitchener, ON zinc Premium Member They're referring to the links in their backbone aggregation network. (i.e. the network where the BAS links terminate and connects to ISPs)