reapthetempestrwb17_ESO wrote: » I only have 100 CP, I don't grind, have played since beta and I listen to the dialogue and take it slow. As a result my main is only VR 10. Yet my character has a 3.0 + KD in Vet Cyrodiil. I don't know if that is good or not since I didn't PVP that much until recently but I don't see what the problem is with CP? Am I the only one that thinks the system is fine as it is?



I also don't understand why someone like Deltia who grinds constantly and uses any exploits he can to get max level (crab grind, sheep killing etc) and gain CP yet he is sooo upset that people have an unfair advantage with too many CP because he still can't keep up with literally one or two other people out of hundreds of thousands of players.



In MMOs you want your character to feel powerful. Why do people want to nerf the ability to gain very slight ability buffs that have diminishing returns to the point that the difference between putting 99 and 100 CP in one skill tree ability is literally to low a decimal place to even register an increase in buff %?



I also disagree that if I have been playing every day for over a year someone who picks up the game today should be able to catch up to me in progression unless I quit the game. As long as people are earning CP legitimately whether grinding or questing or doing dailies or trials or PVP they have earned those CP through hard work, time and effort.



People not prepared to put work time and effort into the game have no right to feel entitled to have the same level of reward and ability as those who do.

I saw a post by @reapthetempestrwb17_ESO recently, that very much stuck out to me, and struck a chord. I feel that it hits such a crucial, and core, argument as to how roleplaying games are designed and work in an online environment, that it really needs to be expanded on and discussed.Well, I have to tell you @reapthetempestrwb17_ESO , you aren't the only one. Not only should you get better as a player, but as a character, when you play a game more. That's true in real life in sports, where you earn more money to get better equipment, practice, and get better at shooting hoops. The same is true in hobbyist videogames.This really does sum up the core of the discussion, I think. The bottom line ends up being that this is an online RPG. RPG's inherently are based around character progression, player skill and tactics, obtaining better gear/gold coins, and learning the combat system to work with the mechanics of the gameplay. A lot of comments here talk about an "even playing field", but that already exists. Everyone has the exact same opportunity and ability to earn champion points, and they are already diminishing in usefulness rapidly the more you gain. You can't balance a game around what the fringe cases are. It simply doesn't represent how nearly anyone really plays, in general. Exceptional people, players, and examples exist in just about anything you can name in life. And yes, so do cheaters, exploiters, and other "not cool" things.I've seen a startling acceptance among some crowds of exploiting, to "level the field" and top scores up, or even outright showing off using them for leveling champion points (or even veteran ranks and normal character levels), getting into keeps or outposts in Cyrodiil PVP, and more. These players feel entitled, for whatever reasons, to cheat ahead of the crowd.Whether they think they simply deserve it outright, or that the system is somehow "broken", they rationalize it. There are some players, probably in the mid-double-digits if I were to guess, running around with 600, 700, even upwards of a thousand champion points right now. Mind you, this is in a game with millions of players. Guess what? Not only did the majority of these people bot by exploiting bugged mobs or botting grind spots while they slept, but they usually do get banned given some time, and the odds of you running into one of 50, 60, or however many of those players ever is astronomically low. If you lose one fight because of that? That doesn't mean the system's bad. It means cheaters suck, just like they always do, in online gaming.Now, to get back to the main contention at hand here (the Champion System, Veteran Ranks, and progression as a whole), I wrote a succinct and raw-facts summary of how it all works along with the relevant examples here:Yes, you can gain "14.2% more damage" (quote-unquote, because unless you're only using one type of attack, that's a misnomer and not correct) than someone else near the beginning of the system by getting to 270 champion points if they only have 90, for one damage type such as elemental, physical, or magical (poison, disease, and magicka) attacks, by maxing out that one star while they "only" can get 30 points in, for 10.8% damage gained of that attack type.Let me once more link this in, because it is being fully overlooked, I think, by most of the people recently discussing the champion system who are staunchly against the entire idea of progression in an MMORPG, a genre which incidentally is a subgenre of the RPG:"Champion Point scaling works in five primary groups, with one or two minor exceptions. The table above shows what you are gaining as you invest more into a single passive, and the lessened value per point between inherent relative diminishment, and the slight exponent on the boosts' power curves."Read that table. On the BEST scaling group of the five main ones these passives use, you have to spend three and a third times the points, to get a two and a third times the bonus. However, that may sound like a big number, yet it's actually only 14.2% to one damage type as discussed above. It's rare, and difficult, to make anything but a niche build that only uses one damage type. Generally, you'll get about 3/4ths to 4/5ths of your damage overall from that primary type, so already that advantage is dropping in its usefulness towards the ~11% range. That's with having three times the champion level, and this is in the most extreme range of gains and changes you obtain from the system being at the very start. Once you reach the level 500 to 600 range, you see a sharper drop-off.Ultimately, if you wanted pure, raw balance, you would be playing Chess, or failing that because it's too "boring" for you... you'd be playing a computer-based game that was designed strictly around balance with absolutely zero progression in any way, shape, or form, such as Quake 3 or Unreal Tournament (1999). Battlefield has progression that stays with your account, as does Call of Duty. So does Counter-Strike, and even League of Legends inside of a specific match as you earn cash/gold to buy upgrades as the round goes on. Starcraft 2, does not, but it automatically matches you against players of objectively closer skill levels, so you are progressing on the leaderboard rankings and getting tougher opponents as you get better in your personal skill.The RPG genre, all the way back to Dungeons and Dragons on pen and paper, is not about 100%, flawless, meticulously crafted equality. Rather, it is based around, and designed for, tactics, planning, and strategy to win the day. On the computer, some reaction time and real-time elements have been introduced, as a compromise between purely turn-based games and purely real-time twitch-based games like Q3 and UT99, for fun factor to the broader market. These all are types of skill, but they are different ones. If you don't like basketball... rather than ask it to be changed to a monstrous hybrid of football, soccer, and baseball, don't play basketball. They conceptually are incompatible with their rulesets and the skills you need, despite sharing a pool of common traits. This is the same with videogames./two-dollars' worth of thought. Thanks for reading, all.