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Aug-11-20

keypusher : < FORCED ADOPTION: Keypusher ,with all due respect the last thing white would do after 16 Ne4 would be to foolishly exchange knights and give Fischer the stranglehold you mention.More likely after moving the queen to safety on c2 would be Bb2 and Rd1 and suddenly all white's pieces are in action again.> 15.Rf1 Ne4 16.Qc2 Nxc3 17.Nxc3 Rc8 and White can resign.

Aug-11-20 SChesshevsky : I never really liked this game. Fischer's attacking sight and combination was wonderful. But a couple of things kind of takes off brilliancy points for me. First, thought Byrne played the opening poorly. Can't believe after 13...Nxd5, he thought he was anything better than equal. Maybe. DSB misplaced, pin and soon to be pin on N's and hole on d3 versus all block's minors ready to go. Second was Byrne's "dazzling move" quote. 18...Nxg2 only came three moves after the initial sac on f2 with those intermediate moves pretty much forced. Then the follow up 19...d4 is so logical. Not necessarily because of mate threats but removing the defender of e2. Unless there was time trouble, I would of thought any GM would've at least calculated the possibilities of ...Nxg2 and come to a concrete conclusion. Doesn't seem that much depth is required. Especially as Byrne himself says, other continuations are likely lost. Certainly was a well deserved win for Fischer. But always felt Byrne helped out a whole lot with bad opening and seeming lack of deep calculation throughout.

Aug-11-20

keypusher : <SChess> . You’re a tough customer. But Byrne lost with White in 21 moves, he must have screwed up somewhere. :-) Funny trivia about this game: this was their sixth meeting, and Byrne had White each time. The first five encounters were draws. The next time they met, in the ‘65-‘66 championship, Fischer finally had White, and lost. After another draw in the ‘66-‘67 championship, Fischer beat Byrne at Sousse — with the Black pieces, of course. Robert E Byrne vs Fischer, 1967. I think that game tends to get overlooked a little bit. Anyway, Byrne’s classical record against Fischer was +1-2=6. Not bad, even if he got a boost from the color distribution.

Aug-11-20 SChesshevsky : < keypusher: <SChess> . You’re a tough customer. > I might have to admit that I'm biased. Lost more than enough games where I played one or two inaccurate moves, was oblivious to my opponents possibilities, and skimped on the calculation. Maybe my opponents played brilliantly to defeat me in those cases. But find it stubbornly hard to admit it.

Aug-12-20

Check It Out : I once embarassingly wrote <Fisher> , but having seen enough games and read enough, I know with certainty that there is no Fischer without <cher> .

Aug-12-20 FORCED ADOPTION : Keypusher thanks for analysis but after 15 Rf1 Ne4 16 BxN PXB (useless bishop)followed by R(a)d1 and Bb2 all white's pieces are active with the white diagonal safely blocked.I think after all that the black knight will then be as much an obstacle to black's attack as is is to white's defence and no great advantage by being there.

Aug-12-20 sudoplatov : In terms of the Byrne Brothers, I think this game is a better candidate for "Game of the Century" than the one against Donald. In the Donald Byrne game, I could figure out the windmill; this game was hard to see that Black's active pieces compensated for the weak IQP (or Isolani for some people); it looks like something Tal or Marshall or Capablanca or Tarrasch or Alekhine would have tried (as Black.)

Aug-12-20

keypusher : <FORCED ADOPTION: Keypusher thanks for analysis but after 15 Rf1 Ne4 16 BxN PXB (useless bishop)followed by R(a)d1 and Bb2 all white's pieces are active with the white diagonal safely blocked.I think after all that the black knight will then be as much an obstacle to black's attack as is is to white's defence and no great advantage by being there.> I guess the idea is to go through all the legal moves in this position? Unsurprisingly:

-a enemy knight entrenched on d3 is not a mere flesh wound -a queen on d2 and rooks on d1 and f1 facing an octopus knight are not "active," viz. the previously mentioned Karpov vs Kasparov, 1985

click for larger view -trading off the guardian of the light squares and the king's principal protector doesn't solve White's problems. After 15.Rf1 Ne4 16.Bxe4 dxe4 17.Rad1 Qg5 SF10's evaluation at 44 ply is about minus-7. After 18.Bb2 (18.f3 exf3 19.Rxf3 Rad8 20.Qc2 Qh5 21.Kg2 Ne5 22.Rf4 Bb7+ 23.e4 g5 24.g4 Nxg4, etc.) Qg4 19.Qc2 Rac8 20.Qd2 (White isn't doing anything; on the other hand there isn't anything White can do) 20....Ne5 21.Kh1 (21.Rfe1 Qh3 is mate in four; at this point the engine's top "choice" for White is 21.Nd4 Rcd8 22.f4 exf3 23.Qf2 Qh3 24.Nxf3 Ng4 25.Ng5 Nxf2 26.Nxh3 Nxh3+ 27.Kg2 Bxf1+ and White is a rook down) 21....Qf3+ 22.Kg1 Qh5 23.f3 Nxf3+ ) 21....Rxc3 22.Nxc3 Bxf1 23.Rxf1 Nf3 and if the queen moves, White gets mated. So, 15.Rf1 Ne4 16.Bxe4 loses almost as quickly as 15.Qc2.

Aug-23-20 FORCED ADOPTION : I am an old guy and don't know how to play white in this game against an engine.However why not 17Rab1(not d1) followed by Bb2and attacking down the diagonal to neutralise the black bishop? Surely freeing the queenside pieces in this way would give white a fighting chance of a draw(against any opponent other than fischer!)

Aug-23-20

keypusher : <FORCED ADOPTION: I am an old guy and don't know how to play white in this game against an engine.However why not 17Rab1(not d1) followed by Bb2and attacking down the diagonal to neutralise the black bishop? Surely freeing the queenside pieces in this way would give white a fighting chance of a draw(against any opponent other than fischer!)> White is every bit as busted after 17.Rab1 as he is after 17.Rad1, viz. 17....Qg5 18.Bb2 Rad8 19.Qc2 Qh5 20.h4 Qg4 21.Ba1 Ne5 and the kingside crumbles. Stop trying to save 15.Rf1. It's not going to happen.

Aug-24-20 FORCED ADOPTION : At the end of the game why not 21.Nf3 ?

That would have been my impulsive move as white freeing the Queen etc Can black still get a quick checkmate here?I can't see it but I expect it is there !

Aug-24-20

keypusher : < FORCED ADOPTION: At the end of the game why not 21.Nf3 ? That would have been my impulsive move as white freeing the Queen etc Can black still get a quick checkmate here?I can't see it but I expect it is there !> After 22.Nf3 Qh3+ 23.Qg2, then simply 23....Qxg2+ followed by 24....Bxc3 is crushing, since more material will go after 25.Rac1 Re3 26.Rf1 Rd8 to be followed by ...Rdd3. The engine slightly prefers 23....Qf5 24.g4 Qa5 25.Bb2 Bxc3 26.Bxc3 Qxc3 27.Rac1 and now ...Qxf3+, ...Qe3, and ...Qf6 all win.

Aug-24-20 FORCED ADOPTION : Sorry but some misunderstanding,In the game as it was ACTUALLY played I suggested after black's 20.Bn2+ to interpose 21.Nf3 and there is no way the black Queen can get to h3 or survive if she did get there as the white king is still on g2.

Aug-24-20

keypusher : <FORCED ADOPTION: Sorry but some misunderstanding,In the game as it was ACTUALLY played I suggested after black's 20.Bn2+ to interpose 21.Nf3 and there is no way the black Queen can get to h3 or survive if she did get there as the white king is still on g2.> Oh, my mistake, I thought you were suggesting 22.Nf3. If 21.Nf3 Qxd2+ 22.Rxd2 Bxc3 23.Rad1 Bxd2 24.Rxd2 Re3 25.Rf2 Rae8 with ...Rxf3 and ...Re3 to come.

Aug-26-20 FORCED ADOPTION : One last attempt to rescue white ! After black takes the bishop 18.........Nxg2 if white ignores this and plays 19.Nd4 blocking off both dangerous diagonals and later playing Rc1 and Bb2 surely when still a piece up this gives white a real fighting chance? If this does not work I will give up on rescue attempts !

Aug-26-20

beatgiant : <FORCED ADOPTION> How is White a piece up after 19. Nd4 <Ne3> ? Looks to me like two pawns down.

Aug-27-20 FORCED ADOPTION : You are right beatgiant ! I was wandering......

Sep-01-20 Chesgambit : 11.Re1 Re8 12.Nf4 e6

11...Rc8 12.Ba3 Re8 13.Rc1 e5!

I think 10.Nf4 is better

Sep-01-20 Chesgambit : 15.Nd4 is better avoid Nxf2

Sep-01-20 Chesgambit : opps 14.Rad1 *** Qc8 (Qd7 Nf4?! Bxf1)

attacking on c3 Nxd5 Nxd5 Bxd5 Rd8 f4 Rxd5 Qxd5 Bb7 Qd2 Qc6 Qd5 Qxd5 Rxd5 Bxd5 fxe5 Bxe5 Rd1 Be4 Rd7 Bf5 Rd2 Rc8 black is better because black have bishop pair white e3 pawn is weak

Sep-06-20 FORCED ADOPTION : yes after black's........ 14.Nd3 surely white can counter with 15. Nd4 blocking up the middle ! After... 15.Ne4 16.NXN PXN 17.Bf1 threatening 18.Pf3 attacking the support for the black knight white can at least hold out for a draw? Maybe Rb1 and Bb2 should precede this but I ask other Kibitzers what they think !

Sep-09-20

keypusher : <FORCED ADOPTION: yes after black's........ 14.Nd3 surely white can counter with 15. Nd4 blocking up the middle ! After... 15.Ne4 16.NXN PXN 17.Bf1 threatening 18.Pf3 attacking the support for the black knight white can at least hold out for a draw? Maybe Rb1 and Bb2 should precede this but I ask other Kibitzers what they think !> I had SF10 look at this for three hours/63 ply. The eval was -3.32. So it's better than some of the other things we've looked at, but still hopeless. Main line FYI is 17....Bxd4 18.ed Qxd4 19.Bxd3 ed 20.Bb2 Qd6 21.Qc3 f6 22.Qxf6 Qxf6 23.Bxf6 Re2 24.a4 Rf8 25.Bd4 Rd8 26.Bc3 Rc2 27.Bd2 Bb7 28.Bg5 Rd5 29.Be3 d2, etc.

Sep-10-20 FORCED ADOPTION : Thank you keypusher for your time and patience. In the mainline you kindly illustrated perhaps 17.Bb2 would be safer( as I suggested as a possibility above).I suppose white must at all costs avoid turning a supposedly weak isolated pawn into a raging monster passed pawn so the black knight can only be taken if the pawn goes at the same time.Bf1 can follow and maybe white can survive..........?

Sep-10-20

keypusher : <FORCED ADOPTION: Thank you keypusher for your time and patience. In the mainline you kindly illustrated perhaps 17.Bb2 would be safer( as I suggested as a possibility above).I suppose white must at all costs avoid turning a supposedly weak isolated pawn into a raging monster passed pawn so the black knight can only be taken if the pawn goes at the same time.Bf1 can follow and maybe white can survive..........?> This line (15.Nd4 Ne4 16.Nxe4 dxe4 17.Bb2) works better than 17.Bf1 at once. I downloaded SF12 (Ayler Kupp has kindly provided a link at the Stockfish page) and let it run for about five hours. It ended up with an eval of -2.47, 53 ply. But, unlike most of the lines we've reviewed, White is able to gradually simplify to an ending, albeit a lost ending. The SF main line is:

17... Rc8 18. a4 h5 19. Ra2 Nxb2 (surprising, but I guess you could say Bobby played similarly against Petrosian) 20. Qxb2 h4 21. Bh3 Rc7 22. Raa1 Bd3 23. Rac1 Rc5 24. b4 Rxc1 25. Rxc1 Qd6 26. a5 Rd8 27. Qd2 Bxd4 28. exd4 Kg7 29. gxh4 Qf6 30. Bg4 Rxd4 31. h3 bxa5 32. bxa5 Rd5 33. Qc3 Qxc3 34. Rxc3 f5 35. Rc7+ Kf6 36. Rc6+ Ke5 37. Rxg6 fxg4 38. Rg5+ Kd4 39. Rxd5+ Kxd5 40. hxg4 Be2 41. Kh2 Bxg4 Obviously there are lots of reasonable alternatives to those moves, but if you want to explore them I suggest you download SF12 for yourself and have at it.

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