Iraq, Iran, and WMDs

Scott Ritter interviewed by Foaad Khosmood (source: ZNET

Foaad Khosmood: Let's start with the Iraq war. There is a very popular line in Washington that gets repeated to this day and that was that "everyone thought Saddam had WMDs" and "both Republicans and Democrats were convinced this was true." But you are actually on record prior to the 2003 invasion saying that Iraq did not possess WMDs. So what can we conclude about the claims that were made about WMDs prior to the invasion?



Scott Ritter: First, let's be absolutely correct. I'm not on record saying Saddam did not have any WMD. I'm on the record saying that no one has demonstrated that he has any WMD. The weapons inspectors said clearly that we can account for 95 to 98 percent of the WMD and we could mitigate against the concerns of the unaccounted for portion by knowing that we had then in place, in Iraq, the most intrusive, technologically advanced inspection regime in the history of arms control. Also whatever material that was unaccounted for has a definite shelf-life that has since passed.



We also discussed whether or not unaccounted-for material could possibly constitute a threat. And we need to also understand that just because something is unaccounted for it does not mean that Saddam Hussein has retained it. This is a point I made. We still had a need for inspections to complete the mission of 100% verification of the final disposition of Iraq's WMD. The point I made is that those who say Iraq retains weapons have failed to put forth anything other than politically motivated rhetoric to back up their assertion. Saying something is not accounted for does not automatically translate into its retention.



I'm also on the record as saying that the Bush administrations case that had been made was fundamentally flawed because the intelligence did not back up anything that Bush was saying, that it was purely speculative and this is the same argument that can be made against anyone who says "you know everybody believed it."



I can't be accountable for what somebody believes. I can tell you what the Intelligence communities of the world were saying. And there was 100% agreement that Iraq had been fundamentally disarmed by 1998. There was not a single intelligence agency out there saying we have hard data that Saddam retains huge stockpiles of weapons of mass destruction or that he has reconstituted a meaningful WMD program. Not a single agency! And the reason is that because we had weapons inspectors in place and we could bring facts to table to show that Iraq did not had these weapons, that we had accounted for the vast majority of its weapons and there was no evidence of a reconstituted program.



Now where there was some unanimity that there were concerns over unaccounted-for materials. Not that these unaccounted-for materials presented a weapons threat as they were but that they might be part and parcel of an undeclared weapons program that had been dismantled and was in hiding and could be reconstituted at some later date. This is where the world shared some concern. But again the point I make, is that while you can be concerned, concern does not automatically translate to reality.



Not a single Senator, not a single Congressman was presented with viable intelligence that proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that Iraq retained weapons of mass destruction. Therefore you have to ask yourself: What intelligence did they receive? If you're talking about going to war - and they voted for war - they need to be shown incontrovertible proof that a situation exists that manifests itself as a threat that warrants the use of military force. What I can tell you is that Senators and Congressmen may have believed Saddam had WMD, but that's faith-based analysis not fact-based analysis. And there is a singular failure across the board for anyone who voted in favor of this war void of any hard, irrefutable evidence. I again re-iterate not a single one of them received such a briefing because frankly speaking such a briefing could not have existed.



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FKh: However, in the court of public opinion, essentially the fact that some of the material was unaccounted for was sold as proof of WMD existence. The burden was shifted to Saddam Hussein having to "show" where all the material is...



SR: You have a situation where Saddam was called upon to prove a negative.



FKh: That's right and this became the standard by which you judge weather or not someone has WMD.



SR: That was an argument put forward early on in the stages of the debate. Yet if you advance the debate beyond the real of public opinion in the realm of policy makers, proving the negative might a cute debate trick that was put forward to try to sway public opinion. But at the end of the day prior to taking action, you need to demonstrate that a threat exists. You can't just speculate that the threat exists, you need to demonstrate it. And this is something that no one was able to do.



FKh: Right. Given all this, and the fact that it would be very irresponsible to go to war with no evidence, what do you believe was the real impetus to attack Iraq?



SR: My belief has nothing to do with it. We can assemble a case based on the statements of the proponents of this war. The framers of this war were people who believed in a dominate American role in global affairs following the collapse of the Soviet Union. These are people who believed that the US had a duty and the obligation to step into the power vacuum created by the collapse of the Soviet Union to ensure that no single power or group of power rose up to confront the United States decisively. It's basically the dividing of the world into strategic spheres of national interest where the United States could intervene unilaterally, preemptively, militarily, exploiting our economic, diplomatic, military advantages to our benefit.



Iraq was identified as one of these nations that was compatible with the American vision of how the world should operate, dominated by the United States. What we saw is Iraq being taken care of according to this plan which goes well beyond Iraq. This is inclusive of Iran and Syria and North Korea. If you read any of the deeper analytical papers of these ideologues who were formulating policy, you will see that China and Russia are included as failed states, failed regimes that require dramatic change before they can be compatible with America. This is what was happening. This is about the new American Empire.

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FKh: Let's now turn to Iran and your new book Target Iran. Who is the MEK?



SR: MEK is the Mojahedin-e-Khalq [1]. It's an Iranian Marxist organization that came into being in the 1970's. It was a force that was opposed to the rule of the Shah of Iran. It was primarily a military opposition group to the Shah and it carried out a number of attacks against the governmental institutions and the military and American military advisors in Iran.



When the Islamic revolution took place in 1979, the MEK initially allied with the Ayatollahs but soon fell out of favor with them. MEK went into exile and they took root first in Europe and later in Iraq where it became a very powerful military wing of the Iraqi Mukhaberat or the intelligence service. Today it's funded by the CIA in their policy of using this organization to be a stick in the side of Iran. Even now, the MEK continues to be listed by the State department as an international terrorist organization.



FKh: OK, so this is a terrorist organization that is responsible for attacks against American civilians. There are many negative things against this group, especially in this political climate. Yet it has managed to have favorable public relations in Washington. Is this all because of CIA backing or are there other benefactors?



SR: Well, if you're dealing with a population that is pre-programmed to accept at face value anything that is put forth by the mainstream media or other punditry which opposes the Islamic Republic, as being good, then all these negatives go away.



The MEK also has the support of the state of Israel. It has the support of the powerful pro-Israeli lobby here in the United States. It has the support of many members of congress, whether they have arrived at their position independently or as a result of intensive lobbying. The MEK does have a base of support among the anti-Tehran groups in Washington.



FKh: In your new book, Target Iran you say that Israeli intelligence was the true source of the new information on Iran's hidden nuclear facilities. You also say that Michael Ledeen and some Washington neocons arranged for MEK to be the conduit of this information. Why was it important for another organization to be the deliverer of this news?



SR: The answer is twofold. One, Israel has a PR problem if it comes out as the lead element in tackling Iran's nuclear program. Two, if your goal is regime change and one of the organizations that you're backing is the MEK - you would also like to... As you say, there are a number of negatives to this organization, so you would position the MEK as an organization that is capable of getting quality information on Iran. This was the same strategy that was used with the Iraqi National Congress and Ahmad Chalabi.



FKh: You also write that this information was known to George Tenet ahead of time. Does this mean Washington is once again engaged in manipulation of intelligence by withholding and strategically releasing information?