They called him “Santito,” the saint. Probably he would have been made a saint if people didn’t speak up about the abuse. People saved things that he would give them, because we all expected he was going to be made a saint. If he gave you a book and he signed it, you kept it as a relic.

You have insisted that Bishop Juan Barros Madrid and other bishops in Chile who were mentored by Father Karadima were aware of the sexual abuse. But how do you know that they knew?

They would witness when Karadima was kissing someone on the lips, or sticking his tongue in someone’s mouth. Or when we were in Karadima’s room, and he would say, now everybody out. Everybody knew what happened after that. But nobody ever spoke about it.

How hard was it for you and Jimmy and Jose Andres to decide to sue and take the case public?

I remember the first time we met the lawyer, Juan Pablo Hermosilla — I only knew he was a famous attorney who had fought Pinochet, the dictator. He said to me, “I want you to be very sure of what you’re doing, because you’re gay and they’re going to descend on you like you cannot imagine.” And that’s exactly what happened. It got to the point where [Chilean Cardinal] Errázuriz once said I might have liked being molested, so he wasn’t sure I was a victim. It turned out that being gay was the least of my sufferings, because the way they treated all of us was just horrific.

And Cardinal Errázuriz — he’s one of the nine cardinals that Pope Francis chose to be on his council of nine advisers?

Right. That’s what I want to ask the pope: How could you have George Pell [the Australian cardinal charged with sexual assault] and Francisco Errázuriz on your council? I’m sure there are other cardinals out there who are good people. You have 120 or something to choose from.

It sounds like you’re angry at the pope. Are you?

There’s been moments that I was. I don’t want to be angry at him and I understand that people make mistakes. But this is the most informed man in the world. That is a question mark for me. Why he didn’t act on it faster or understand the situation faster, and had to put everybody through such pain?