

TSI Marc

Premium Member

join:2006-06-23

Chatham, ON 1 recommendation TSI Marc Premium Member [Cable] Rate increase and update on a few things Hello all,



We will be raising rates soon on rCable, vCable and cCable. There are a number of factors and reasons for this. I'd like to discuss these in this thread. We pride ourselves on delivering the best experience at great prices. This decision is not being made without significant consideration.



The factors leading to this are simply that costs have gone up. However, the timing is compounded by recent events.



As many of you know, back in early 2012, a CRTC decision was made that required disaggregated third party internet service providers (TPIA) like TekSavvy was at the time, to migrate to Aggregated TPIA or ATPIA before the end of 2013. So, earlier this year, with considerable effort, we migrated as we were required to do. We are now fully migrated to ATPIA. This transition has had a net result of raising our costs.



Secondly, another CRTC decision earlier this year raised usage costs. We did not raise rates at that time.



Third, is that roughly a week ago a cost study was submitted by Rogers to the CRTC seeking to raise certain rates that would increase our costs significantly again. They are also asking to make the increase retroactive. It is not a sure thing that these rates will be approved. I say again, it is NOT a sure thing that these rates will be approved. We, and others, will do what we can to make sure the Rogers rates are properly set. I say also, and I want to make clear, that we have always been willing to pay the fair and reasonable costs associated by the services we obtain from incumbents. I am not here implying that we should be getting something for less than what it costs and is reasonable given the regulatory environment.



The crux of it all is this; with costs having already gone up significantly prior to this latest cost study, and with the rates currently being sought in a retroactive way, we must act now to protect ourselves from what may end up being a significant retroactive charge to us when and if these rates are approved.



The increase we will be making will not and is not meant to make us whole in the event that these new rate increases are approved but instead is meant to adjust to prior cost increases and protect against any significant retroactive charges. In the normal course, those earnings get used to invest into the business for many reasons including building facilities, diversifying into new services, various innovations and expansion to be able to hire additional staff. All critical to the economy, especially these days and especially in places like Chatham.



Now, since that Rogers cost study has been submitted, there were others also that had not yet submitted theirs. Vidéotron and Cogeco had also not done so. They have now been directed to do so within 30 days. We don't yet have those studies. They may or may not submit them. We don't know yet.



From a consumer perspective one thing that is positive is that speeds have been increasing over time. Therefore, our customers have benefitted from an increased value to the service over time.



With all of these factors considered, we will be raising rates on rCable services that have a usage cap by $2/month. For Vidéotron and Cogeco, we will be raising rates on services with a cap by $3/month. Unlimited services on all three will not be affected. Notices will be sent out in the next week or two and will have the full details in it. The changes will likely take effect early next year for existing users. For new signups, the rates will be changed on our site as soon as we have the back end systems updated within the next week or two.



If the CRTC approves rate increases based on any of the cost studies, we may be forced to do a second rate increase in a relatively short period of time. This is truly unfortunate and not at all how I believe these things should be managed, however given these realities we are forced to act. These are direct costs to us and they are significant.



An important factor also is that grandfathered speeds are not being affected by the cost study. Only speeds that are currently being offered are affected. We have, however, already incurred increased costs for the grandfathered services and so all of our speeds will see rate increases but I would urge existing grandfathered users to keep their speeds if they want to avoid being caught up in any consequences relating the recent Rogers cost study. To be more specific, the cost study is strictly related to 6, 25, 35, 45 and 150 mbit/sec speeds.



The cost study will be posted subsequently, it's a public document or documents. I will let it speak for itself. I'm sure others will post it also.



Turning the page a little bit, below are some important, related and unrelated updates.



Clearly, going forward, usage is important to track. For this reason, we have invested significant capital and resources to implement usage tracking so that you can better track your usage patterns. In the next few weeks we will be going live with that system for tracking rCable and cCable TPIA usage. vCable usage reporting currently suffers from technical deficiencies that Vidéotron must fix before we can report accurately, otherwise it would also be going live at the same time.



We are launching the new Beta customer portal. It will go live in a few weeks and in it you will be able to access the usage tools mentioned above and some new, opt-in usage features. From it, you will also be able to view your services and your past invoices. Initially, some features that are in the existing portal, which will remain operational, will not necessarily exist in the new portal. As subsequent versions of the new portal are implemented in the months ahead, more and more features will be added to it.



On the DSL side of things; SmartRG modems will be available in the next few weeks. They will be available for purchase and for rent-to-own. The price point is a bit lower than the Sagemcom.



Speaking of the Sagemcom modems, they have a firmware update that is ready to go live. We are currently testing it out and hopefully it will get pushed soon if we don't find any problems. My understanding is that Bell has already gone live with it for many of their users and it appears to work well. The update would automatically get pushed once the trigger is pulled. Nothing needs to be done on your end.



Montreal DSL

join:2011-02-02

Montreal-DSL Montreal DSL Member Oops ... Should we update our website already? Or you will let us know when? Thanks



TSI Marc

Premium Member

join:2006-06-23

Chatham, ON TSI Marc Premium Member We will communicate with you as we work through everything. This is all new since the cost study was submitted.



Adrien

@wind.ca Adrien Anon Seems reasonable. It's clear to anyone watching that the business environment you're operating in has been getting increasingly hostile these past few months.



Teddy Boom

k kudos Received

Premium Member

join:2007-01-29

Toronto, ON Teddy Boom to TSI Marc

Premium Member to TSI Marc

said by TSI Marc: Clearly, going forward, usage is important to track. For this reason, we have invested significant capital and resources to implement usage tracking so that you can better track your usage patterns. In the next few weeks we will be going live with that system for tracking rCable and cCable TPIA usage. vCable usage reporting currently suffers from technical deficiencies that Vidéotron must fix before we can report accurately, otherwise it would also be going live at the same time.



I'd go as far as to say that credit cards should be billed for the overages and then credited a few hours later--if the cost of doing that isn't insanely high--so that customers not paying attention will be warned in every possible way. Price increases are never fun, but I really appreciate that you are giving existing customers lots of notice on the price increase side. While 30 days notice is the minimum acceptable, giving existing customers 60 or 90 days notice where possible goes a long way to softening the blow for not much cost to TekSavvy.Some might not agree, but personally I'm glad to hear usage metering is coming. As above though.. What are the plans around implementing overage charges? I hope we'll have an extended period of time where customers will be able to inspect their usage patterns before billing begins. It is very important that it doesn't come as a surprise to people.I'd go as far as to say that credit cards should be billed for the overages and then credited a few hours later--if the cost of doing that isn't insanely high--so that customers not paying attention will be warned in every possible way.



TSI Marc

Premium Member

join:2006-06-23

Chatham, ON TSI Marc Premium Member Overage charges are part and parcel of the usage systems and will begin in the next few weeks as well. We will begin with notices of overages and sometime in Jan or February we will begin to bill out the overages. We want to make sure everybody is in the proper usage tier before we bill. If you know that you should be in a different tier, you should switch to avoid notices and eventually usage charges. We will provide more feedback on this as we begin to implement the system. It will be gradual.

Kane Hart

join:2012-11-17 Kane Hart to TSI Marc

Member to TSI Marc

Yikes. I hope we get a fair notice about when the usage over charge begins. I myself will be canceling my service at the current 150/10 service.



I mean 150Mbps down for 1 single day is 1.6 TB?



Just alone for people who are into just Youtube videos and Live streaming will be hurt so bad. Let's say avg 30min 1080p Video going be about 5Gigs... That is 150gigs a month if your only doing one video per day.



Yeah I know the old rogers quote. Our average user base blah blah. It's the reason I personally left them.



Sorry to cry but it's just a crappy day for me. I thankfully have Rogers service at my other place and I can use it to retention some good deals but still a bit ticked off.



TSI Marc

Premium Member

join:2006-06-23

Chatham, ON TSI Marc Premium Member Regardless of speed, 300gig is a lot of data. I don't see any of this changing much for most. Unless of course, it was getting abused..



Like I said, there will be some time to view your usage and automatic notices will be sent. Billing will only start likely in Feb. I.e. No sudden surprises.



I mentioned above also but we will be implementing opt-in features to help in various situations. The idea being to make it easier to use your connection when it counts but to help us manage usage to minimize peak time usage and help keep costs down so we can keep rates down.



TypeS

join:2012-12-17

London, ON TypeS to Kane Hart

Member to Kane Hart

Residential connections are not meant to be used at capacity 24/7, so quoting the theoretical amount that could be transferred in 1 day is simply just silly.



For the utterly small fraction of users who actually treat the internet as endless buffet of media, there are unlimited packages. And your case example streaming as a "popular" use means speeds like 150/10 are not needed when 1080p streams reach at best around 10Mb/s (not saying that's what they should be at).



You want to have 150/10 speeds with unlimited access, your welcome to go pay for it but don't try to justify it with baseless case examples.

Kane Hart

join:2012-11-17 Kane Hart Member Sure I will take a business line that is not worse then a residential line... Oh wait that is right you don't have a such thing.



Maybe you should not suggest or offer me bullshit TypeS.



I would easily pay for a decent connection if one was offered to me in my area. But most the time it's reduced speeds. I'm sorry if your going for a business connection you expect the upload speeds to go up not down.



150/10 for 300 gigs is not even remotely considered fair unless abused.



Netflix HD 2-3 Shows a night a couple movies a week. You guys know Next Gen consoles have games at 40-60 gigs in size? Steam games are getting bigger and bigger. More and more people using SSD's so they tend to just download a game and play it then uninstall it.



You can try to argue Robbers crap to me and get a good laugh. But clearly 300gig caps or even caps in 2013 is nothing but a joke.



Anyone to argue that is just insane. Now not being able to offered it because of other parties and etc I do Understand. But all I got was robbers quotes.



TypeS

join:2012-12-17

London, ON TypeS Member



Sorry if you think facts or reality are bullshit but no one's buying your victim act, you want unlimited or high usage, pay for it.



Maybe you should go sign up with You say a 300GB cap is crap but where are you facts to back that up? Where's your gathered info the proves the majority of users are breaking past those caps and paying overages?Sorry if you think facts or reality are bullshit but no one's buying your victim act, you want unlimited or high usage, pay for it.Maybe you should go sign up with CIKTel ? They offer dirt cheap unlimited plans, including 150/10.



Guspaz

Guspaz

MVM

join:2001-11-05

Montreal, QC Guspaz to TSI Marc

MVM to TSI Marc

The 300GB package has unlimited upstream and unlimited between 2AM and 8AM. If that's not enough, you can get the unlimited package. There are real and substantial costs here to TekSavvy (thanks to the incumbents faking their cost studies), if you want to use more, you've got to pay for it.

jebise

join:2011-05-14 jebise to Guspaz

Member to Guspaz

@Guspaz, beat me to it. I think its still fair and 300GB is still better then robbers so I can't complain. I do believe somewhere down the line the cap should increase as speeds increase. It is true the demand for streaming is increasing and the next gen consoles can really max the limit very easily.



As log as TSI keeps there commutations open to the public (i.e. this thread) I don't see an issue.



If I find myself going over 300GB i will just opt for the unlimited package, 300GB is still enough for my needs. Fair and simple in my opinion...

resa1983

Premium Member

join:2008-03-10

North York, ON resa1983 to TSI Marc

Premium Member to TSI Marc





»docs.google.com/spreadsh ··· =sharing Actually, that $2 increase is very reasonable, considering wholesale costs if this goes through varies from 1.51 increase to an almost 10.00 increase.



TSI Marc

Premium Member

join:2006-06-23

Chatham, ON TSI Marc Premium Member Thanks for posting resa. I was trying to find the link on the CRTC site but this is another way to do it.



This rate increase is not dealing with their cost study though resa. So, in the worst case it would be what they are asking for plus this rate increase. This is why I wanted to talk this over with everybody. With all the increases they have received, I find it difficult to believe that they are asking for more. But I guess that's what we will find out as the process unfolds.



HiVolt

Premium Member

join:2000-12-28

Toronto, ON HiVolt Premium Member I don't know how they can do a retroactive change... their rates are already extremely unfair. Asking for retroactive is just nuts.



TSI Marc

Premium Member

join:2006-06-23

Chatham, ON TSI Marc Premium Member That's what they are asking for... Not necessarily what they will get.

Kane Hart

join:2012-11-17 Kane Hart to TSI Marc

Member to TSI Marc

I have another question:

"usage is important to track. For this reason, we have invested significant capital and resources to implement usage tracking"



So if one user let say hits 600gigs one month on the 300 gig plan does Rogers actually go after you for that? Is the Bandwidth not pooled in total for example you have 10,000 customers with 150/10 plan so you would have 3,000,000 gigs to deal with as one single Pool? I assume since you guys keep quoting studies done on usage and such if it was pooled that even the few abusers and no I don't do bit torrent and any of that crap but since your calling me an abuser for using youtube and streaming on Twitch then I wonder more how how you are charged based on this?



Seems like invested significant capital in something that will only hurt the customers if it had no effect on you to begin with might been a bad idea.



Teddy Boom

k kudos Received

Premium Member

join:2007-01-29

Toronto, ON Teddy Boom to Guspaz

Premium Member to Guspaz

said by Guspaz: There are real and substantial costs here to TekSavvy (thanks to the incumbents faking their cost studies), The thing that kills me is not just the manipulation of costs, but that the CRTC considers 30% to be a fair markup. I'm no investment banker, but as far as I can tell a net profit margin of 10% is very good for a large business. While some CRTC tariffs are set at 20% markup, I believe Rogers gets 30% markup. Since the cost studies are all-in, that means a 23% net profit margin on their TPIA operations! Very very generous.



shrugs

@videotron.ca shrugs to TSI Marc

Anon to TSI Marc

said by TSI Marc: 1. As many of you know, back in early 2012, a CRTC decision was made that required disaggregated third party internet service providers (TPIA) like TekSavvy was at the time, to migrate to Aggregated TPIA or ATPIA before the end of 2013. So, earlier this year, with considerable effort, we migrated as we were required to do. We are now fully migrated to ATPIA. This transition has had a net result of raising our costs.



2. Secondly, another CRTC decision earlier this year raised usage costs. We did not raise rates at that time.



3. Third, is that roughly a week ago a cost study was submitted by Rogers to the CRTC seeking to raise certain rates that would increase our costs significantly again. They are also asking to make the increase retroactive. It is not a sure thing that these rates will be approved. I say again, it is NOT a sure thing that these rates will be approved. We, and others, will do what we can to make sure the Rogers rates are properly set. I say also, and I want to make clear, that we have always been willing to pay the fair and reasonable costs associated by the services we obtain from incumbents. I am not here implying that we should be getting something for less than what it costs and is reasonable given the regulatory environment.



Now, since that Rogers cost study has been submitted, there were others also that had not yet submitted theirs. Vidéotron and Cogeco had also not done so. They have now been directed to do so within 30 days. We don't yet have those studies. They may or may not submit them. We don't know yet.



2. Were there not also some minor cost breaks to come out of the CRTC? I think there may have been a couple.



3. Again, this is Rogers related, yet you are raising Videotorn land by 3$ (more than Rogers land) when everything is Rogers related. Basically you are raising Videotron land rates based on speculation (your own words).



Something seems wrong here. Are your videotron land subscribers subsidizing your Rogers land customers for you? I don't see a 3$ cost increase in those three things you stated. At all. Matter of fact, it appears off.



But, feel free to correct this so that it makes some sense. 1. As far as I know #1 related to Rogers only. Videotron (except for a couple of regions) were always aggregated when you started with them, unlike Rogers and the mess Rogers had.2. Were there not also some minor cost breaks to come out of the CRTC? I think there may have been a couple.3. Again, this is Rogers related, yet you are raising Videotorn land by 3$ (more than Rogers land) when everything is Rogers related. Basically you are raising Videotron land rates based on speculation (your own words).Something seems wrong here. Are your videotron land subscribers subsidizing your Rogers land customers for you? I don't see a 3$ cost increase in those three things you stated. At all. Matter of fact, it appears off.But, feel free to correct this so that it makes some sense.



TSI Marc

Premium Member

join:2006-06-23

Chatham, ON TSI Marc to Kane Hart

Premium Member to Kane Hart

Kane, do you know what your average monthly usage is? Maybe the unknown is worse than the actual thing?

Kane Hart

join:2012-11-17 Kane Hart to TSI Marc

Member to TSI Marc

said by TSI Marc: Kane, do you know what your average monthly usage is? Maybe the unknown is worse than the actual thing?



This is sort of what happens when you have 2 IT techs and a gamer in the same basement. Hell I don't even have time for gaming these days. Just syncing assets to my servers in the states is enough to hit the max. I ended up reducing my Backups to weekly rather then daily just to save a crap ton of bandwidth but still would have loved doing it daily.



I'm unfortunately and for sure one the higher None abusers as I don't torrent and warez and such. But still it's 2013 and when you can blow through the bandwidth with the speeds we are given within 5 hours then we have some major issues. Sadly 455 Gigs already this month down and only 28gigs out. The 28 gigs out is really low since we have not started doing any streaming or Youtube video uploads yet.This is sort of what happens when you have 2 IT techs and a gamer in the same basement. Hell I don't even have time for gaming these days. Just syncing assets to my servers in the states is enough to hit the max. I ended up reducing my Backups to weekly rather then daily just to save a crap ton of bandwidth but still would have loved doing it daily.I'm unfortunately and for sure one the higher None abusers as I don't torrent and warez and such. But still it's 2013 and when you can blow through the bandwidth with the speeds we are given within 5 hours then we have some major issues.



TSI Marc

Premium Member

join:2006-06-23

Chatham, ON TSI Marc to shrugs

Premium Member to shrugs

Hey shrugs,



It was the reverse actually. Rogers business was subsidizing both Vidéotron and Cogeco. Usage costs have increased due to higher usage by users. And CBB costs are much larger than on Rogers. Speeds have also increased and so usage has also increased. The net result is that to make it all even we need to raise rates. If you recall, my initial rates on caped packages were higher and due to pressure here in dslreports I reduced it. This go around, I will simply set it to where it should be and if there are other shenanigans, we will deal with that when or if it happens.



westerner

@telus.net westerner to TSI Marc

Anon to TSI Marc

just to confirm, no Shaw increase?



I realize there is not reference to shaw in the post, but I want to be 100% clear.



TSI Marc

Premium Member

join:2006-06-23

Chatham, ON TSI Marc Premium Member That's right. No changes with Shaw. Only new service areas to be launched very soon.