After a recent poll found support across the city for reopening the debate on the Scarborough subway, advocates for affected communities say councillors never had all the necessary facts in front of them — and neither did their neighbours.

It’s likely that when council meets later this year to decide where to dig for a Scarborough subway, details will be absent on the previously planned option: a fully funded, $1.48-billion, seven-stop light-rail line.

Despite a long and tortuous council debate that first settled on LRT and then, under Rob Ford (open Rob Ford's policard), switched to a subway, some in the community are saying the options for Scarborough were never really properly considered.

“I have not seen a single picture of what an LRT would look like, I have no comparative numbers as to how many travellers per car... where the track would run or how it would run,” said Midland Park Community Association president Mark Weiser, whose group represents an area bordered by Midland Ave., Ellesmere Rd., Brimley Rd. and Lawrence Ave. near the proposed transit routes.

Since council narrowly voted in 2013 to move ahead with a three-stop, $3.56-billion and Premier Kathleen Wynne have , Mayor John Tory (open John Tory's policard) and Premier Kathleen Wynne have tried to say discussion about an LRT is dead. Council will now consider a report this fall — on a yet-to-be disclosed date — on the possible subway alignments. Councillors must also contend with how a subway might interfere with Tory’s own plans for a nearby heavy-rail commuter line he has dubbed SmartTrack.

City staff preparing that Scarborough subway report have not been directed to bring any analysis of the LRT alternative — which would cost taxpayers $2 billion less — to upcoming meetings. Whether that comparison should be in front of council is a question both Wynne and Tory earlier brushed off.

While politicians advocating for the subway say the decision is closed, in part because they say it is undeniable Scarborough wants — “deserves” — a subway, Weiser and other community leaders say they also want all the facts, so their residents can be confident about future transit plans. It’s not about simply backing an LRT or a subway, but making sure their communities and the greater city get the best deal, they told the Star.

“I don’t really agree with the way politics are operating right now... Even the people who are close to the debate and what’s going on still are operating with partial information,” Weiser said.

His residents support a subway, but he said council’s decisions may not have been based on all the evidence.

Local groups that spoke to the Star agree on a lot of the underlying issues: that Scarborough riders are underserved by current transit, that careful discussion is needed about the kind of development that’s best for their neighbourhoods, and that they are sick of waiting.

Sheila White, president of the C.D. Farquharson Community Association, said building new dense development needed to support a subway is not wanted in her or other single-family home communities.

“If Rob Ford had not cancelled the original project, we would have a real decent (LRT) line that would be up and running by now that could accommodate mid-scale development and a lively streetscape,” White said.

She’s also frustrated by how the decision was made, blaming politics at the city and provincial levels for getting in the way.

“It’s unfortunate that the process can’t be different from what it is, but that’s what happens when you have Kathleen Wynne making transit decisions for Toronto,” she said.

Ernie McCullough, executive director for the Sheppard East Village BIA, which was involved in the recent subway discussions, said residents would just like something to be built at this point.

“If they’ve decided to put spaceships somewhere, it’s our job to work on behalf of our members to make sure the plan is as good as it can be, the funding is in place, the benefits are maximized for the whole area and indeed the whole city,” he said, adding his group believes a subway should serve the McCowan Rd. area, including the Scarborough Hospital.

Many of the groups the Star spoke to have chosen not to take a hard line on the type of technology needed — but are vocal about their communities’ needs.

Not only was good information lacking during the earlier debate, misinformation was spread about — much of it loudly repeated by Ford and his supporters — casting doubt on how well an LRT could perform in the winter, along with false claims that the LRT would run up the road and interfere with traffic when it was designed to be grade-separated. Some of that misinformation persists today and was repeated by several community leaders the Star spoke to.

Former mayor David Miller, who pushed for a network of LRTs during his tenure — a plan known as Transit City before it was effectively killed by his successor, Ford — told the Star that building a seven-stop LRT was never just about getting people downtown, but allowing them to get around Scarborough as well.

“The problem with the extension of the Bloor-Danforth line is that it serves fewer people at far more cost, and the cost is so significant that it pushes out other equally or more worthy transit projects,” Miller said, including expanding LRT links to places such as the University of Toronto Scarborough campus.

He argued there’s “no question” costs for a subway will continue to climb as council debates where the line should go and the potential for adding a fourth station at a cost of at least $300 million.

“At what point in time does the cost become cost prohibitive and force rational people to reassess? That’s the real question.”

Still, since Miller’s day, community leaders say, they’ve never had all the facts.

Councillor Josh Matlow (open Josh Matlow's policard), who has repeatedly questioned the justification for a subway and pushed for more publicly available information, said he hopes council will be presented with those facts, including the LRT alternative, when the subway debate returns later this year.

“It’s clear that the majority of Torontonians want council to make an evidence-based transit plan that would serve more residents and be thoughtful with tax dollars,” he said following the recent poll by Forum Research, which found 48 per cent of Toronto residents want the decision to be reconsidered.

“Scarborough residents are saying loud and clear that while council may think a three-stop subway is good politics, they know that a seven-stop LRT would be better transit.”

Many Scarborough councillors, including Glenn De Baeremaeker (open Glenn De Baeremaeker's policard), Michelle Berardinetti (open Michelle Berardinetti's policard), Raymond Cho (open Raymond Cho's policard), Gary Crawford (open Gary Crawford's policard) and newcomer Jim Karygiannis (open Jim Karygiannis's policard), agree with Tory, saying the subway plan is final. (Councillors Michael Thompson (open Michael Thompson's policard), Chin Lee (open Chin Lee's policard), Norm Kelly (open Norm Kelly's policard) and Ron Moeser (open Ron Moeser's policard) did not respond to a request for comment.)

De Baeremaeker argued that, despite the poll, there’s “no appetite” in Scarborough for reopening the subway-vs.-LRT debate.

Berardinetti said: “It’s not something that we’re going to revisit.”

Both suggested the poll numbers were skewed — “hocus pocus,” De Baeremaeker said — and that the most recent election confirmed support for a subway.

Councillor Paul Ainslie (open Paul Ainslie's policard), the only Scarborough-area councillor to oppose the subway, pointed out that his popular support grew during the last election; he won easily despite actively telling voters he supports light rail.

“You get to somebody’s door and they’d be like, ‘I don’t understand all this LRT versus subway,’” Ainslie said. When he spent the extra time to explain the differences while campaigning, including his concerns about a growing price tag, he said many were baffled by council’s decision.

“Nine times out of 10, people are like, ‘Wow, why aren’t we building the LRT?’”

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Jason Rodricks, president of the North Bendale Community Association, whose members live near a potential subway or LRT route, said he feels none of the options tabled is ideal. He said all the pros and cons weren’t properly considered by council.

“It’s like choosing from the lesser of the evils right now,” he said. “I don’t think they have all the right info to move forward and make a fully educated decision.”

Just the facts: Subway vs. LRT

Council is considering three routes for a subway. Here is how those alignments stack up compared with the previously planned LRT.

Subway

New stops: Three. All routes travel from Kennedy Station, connect to Scarborough Town Centre and end at McCowan Rd. and Sheppard Ave.

Length: 7.6 km for a route along McCowan; a similar length along the Midland corridor; more for the Bellamy corridor

Ridership: At least 9,500 people riding per peak hour in a peak direction

People and jobs within walking distance: 14,000 to 20,000

Speed: Subway trains and light rail vehicles can both reach a top speed of 80 km/h. But with stops considered, the subway is estimated to travel at about 40 km/h.

Connections: Gets rid of the need to transfer from the existing Bloor-Danforth subway line at Kennedy Station

Cost: $3.56 billion for a three-stop line on a McCowan corridor, at least $300 million more for a fourth station and upwards of $600 million for different routes. The city is also responsible for millions in annual operating and maintenance costs.

LRT

New stops: Seven, travelling from Kennedy Station, including Scarborough Town Centre and Centennial College and ending at Sheppard Ave. east of Markham Rd.

Length: 9.9 km

Ridership: 8,000 people riding per peak hour in a peak direction

People and jobs within walking distance: 47,000

Speed: With stops considered, light-rail vehicles will travel at an estimated 36 km/h

Connections: Improves the transfer at Kennedy Station with a single flight of stairs, similar to transferring lines at St. George or Bloor/Yonge subway stations

Cost: $1.48 billion, fully funded by the province. The province also pays for operating and maintenance costs.