Rocksitter said: IRL the Allies won right so be happy its based on real life now be happy... Click to expand...

Vyllis said: Did read some lines from the bunch and i got:



Panzer II heavy tank.

M3HT 0.50cal self propelled anti tank gun.

FI 156 Storch air superiority fighter.



Ok, i... Click to expand...

M4A1 Sherman on phase A while the German side gets that laugh (compared to a Sherman) called Panzer II. Is that supposed to be meant funny in any way?

I was complaining about the allied side being way superior in many ways, as a PzKpfw. II can do no·thing against a Sherman for sure – and indirectly implied that it would way more equal if Germany gets some PzKpfw. IV variants on phase A already or that the allied side gets removed the Shermans from first phase – since e.g. a M8 Greyhound with its 37 mm AT-cannon or a M5 Stuart with the same armament shall be enough to counter a Panzer II C, right?



Again the question: Does someone¹ consider it fair that allies getting a medium tank with a unquestionable capable 75mm AT-gun while the German side gets only a light tank featuring just a 20mm KwK?



And as if that imbalance weren't enough, there are also some further major minor discrepancies …

Spoiler: Namely … The German 20mm KwK has the identical AP-stopping power as the 37mm KwK.

AP-stopping power as the 37mm KwK. The German 37mm KwK has – for whatever reason – only half the AP-stopping power the allied 37mm AT-gun offers.

reason – only half the AP-stopping power the 37mm AT-gun offers. Neither the 20mm nor the 37mm KwK is able to penetrate even the smallest and most light-weight allied tank frontally, the M3 Stuart.

The German field AT-guns have – again, for whatever reason – a decreased & limited operational range of 1.000m, allied ones have a range of 1.200m. I've asked and just thought out loud if it's fair if the Allies are getting valuable tanks already like theon phase A while the German side gets that laugh (compared to a Sherman) called. Is that supposed to be meant funny in any way?I was complaining about the allied side beingsuperior in many ways, as acan doagainst afor sure – and indirectly implied that it wouldif Germany gets somevariants on phase A alreadythat the allied side gets removed thefrom first phase – since e.g. awith its 37 mm AT-cannon or awith the same armament shall be enough to counter a, right?Again the question: Does someone¹ consider it fair that allies getting awith a unquestionable capable 75mm AT-gun while the German side gets only a light tank featuring just a 20mm KwK?And as if that imbalance weren't enough, there are also some furtherminor discrepancies …

Most light vehicles by Germany can get killed (often within a few bursts) by single MG- fire from allied vehicles – where as on the contrary even allied halftracks often withstand AT-fire from AT-guns or light- to medium tanks either over a longer period of time, curiously bouncing 50mm shots or even surviving pinpointed bombardments with 500Kg SC-bombs. I may add in here, that even heavy tanks like a Jumbo or KT could easily get killed by something like that and barely survived those bombings – at least in real-life.



Virtually every U.S. vehicle equipped with any MG (doesn't matter if it's a .30 or .50) produces that much suppression upon any light-armoured enemy-vehicle that it's often pinned down or falling back within a few seconds, while even a Sd.Kfz featuring the 20 KwK auto-cannon doesn't have the ability to suppress that fast or this consistent. Greyhound somehow are able to continuosly kill Panthers and Panzer IV …



It doesn't matter if it's a Jeep, a M21, M16 or any other halftrack or a similar vehicle;

The suppression reaches its maximum quite shortly and the crew bails out on light-vehicles, falls back or is pinned down on heavier ones, just by pure MG-fire from either .30 or .50 – even leaving any AA-vehicles aside. Namely the M21 MMC also increases enemy planes' Suppression Gauge and issues hefty damages on them.

​

„Aerial combat fighting-behaviours & -mechanics“

Another suspect phrase describing the renowned Balance PDX & ES bringing in …



The Suppression Gauge is filled up within hardly more than a single second on any German planes by any allied vehicle, no contest. This happens even on a simple flyover, forcing the plane to turn back to base often without even reaching its target.



Upon an upcoming appearance of a enemy plane like e.g. a P-51, the gauge is filled within a blink of an eye and the P-51 gets the plane shot down every single time. On every one on one the allied plane wins. The only case to shot down the enemy without getting shot down on your own is a three German against one allied plane event.



Where your famous Fieseler Fi 156 Storch comes in, is: Germany can't spawn any fighter- or bomber-plane during A (as of 12. SS-Panzer) but the Allies getting a P-51, P-38 or a Spitfire Mk. IX which shreds the sky of course.

Muh, much Wehraboo!



Spoiler: This is balance! SpartaKickingIn.jpg Even the cheapest German fighter on phase A costs more than any other enemy fighters like a P-38 Lightning , a P-51 Mustang or a Spitfire Mk. IX .

, a or a . Even the cheapest German fighter on A is more costy than a allied fighter and is almost twice as much expensive as those allied ones.

The Germans didn't have any plane during A which brings in any veterancy . The allies have half of their planes either being level veteran or are even level elite .

plane during A which brings in any . The allies have half of their planes either being level or are even level . There isn't any German plane prior to stage C which feature elite -status . The allied side have planes like that even upon phase A.

German plane prior to stage C which feature . The allied side have planes like that even upon phase A. Most allied planes are cheaper across the board over all phases.

Allied planes aiming ridiculous fast while Axis planes need significant longer for that task. Or in general:Another suspect phrase describing the renowned Balance PDX & ES bringing in …Theis filled up within hardly more than a single second onGerman planes byallied vehicle, no contest. This happens even on a simple flyover, forcing the plane to turn back to base often without even reaching its target.Upon an upcoming appearance of a enemy plane like e.g. a P-51, the gauge is filled within a blink of an eye and the P-51 gets the plane shot down every single time. On every one on one the allied plane wins. The only case to shot down the enemygetting shot down on your own is a three German against one allied plane event.Where your famouscomes in, is: Germany can't spawn any fighter- or bomber-plane during A (as of 12. SS-Panzer) but the Allies getting a P-51, P-38 or a Spitfire Mk. IX which shreds the sky of course.

Severvus_septim said: As I've said in other thread (full of whining about how hard life of 3AD is in game and how rude Panthers kicks asses of poor Shermans) so I'll say here:

If you think, that in SD any team have overwhelming andvantage against other, it mean only that you or your opponent using units of second one in wrong way. Click to expand...

Katsuki126 said: Ahem, the Storch is an observation plane. It was designed to take off from an open field and pinpoint target for artillery...

It's American equivalent is the Pipper.... Click to expand...

KarampaFIN said: I must admit, after what I have seen from other "please buff Germans" threads, this one takes the cake on the funniest one ever made. Bravo, good sir, you have managed to make the greatest and the funniest thread here on the forums. This thread would be the absolute best if he was serious though.

[…]

Storch being used as a air superiority fighter... I mean, there was Charles Carpenter that used the Grasshopper as a Tank Hunter, I guess Germans could try to surprise the enemy fighters with their Storchs? Click to expand...

Ownage said: This is borderline comedy!

I cannot decide wether this is a troll or not but it was hilarious to read anyways. I decided to counter your points.



Jumbo was made to survive 8,8cm frontal AP fire. Jumbos gun is worthless. Use the HS129 or be a smart player and just outflank it. The 3rd armored does have an edge in halftracks, but just use armored cars, panzer 2, a bomber or a AT gun. It's not that crazy, but i can understand that the Jumbo and Churchill Avre have a little bit to much frontal armor, perhaps 19-20 is more balanced.



The storch is a recon plane, just fyi. It's not meant to face P38s or P51s. You have Bf109s for that. The firefly argument isint invalid at all as the m4a1 has a hard time destroying it but firefly eats m4s for breakfast. Also, use AT guns! They eat up m5a1s and m4s. If youre the 91st use the HS129 to wreck havoc.



You seem salty, as you've seemingly gotten unlucky. My friend and I beat the AI as the axis and has won 2/2 2v2s as us as the axis. We've also played all the WG titles for hundreds of hours. There's no allied bias here, the German infantry is really strong with lots of AT and MGs. The panthers are really good and the pz4s are good in numbers. Remember that you can only have like 3 jumbos max. It's hard to decide anything on balance with 2 maps and 4 divisions.

Also, you're aware of the "star" mechanics with leaders and such? These play a large factor in accuracy. I think you're just unlucky with the combat exchanges if you're not disadvantaged accuracy wise.

You're obviously very frustrated and salty right now, perhaps a break would suit you good? Click to expand...

Katsuki126 said:

You implied that Storch and Mustang were in the same category of aircraft, what did you expected ? Why ? Because everyone had a good laugh ?You implied that Storch and Mustang were in the same category of aircraft, what did you expected ? Click to expand...

ES & PDX

axnone said: IMHO it's rather too early to discuss about overall balance. Keep in mind we're still in beta test, full release is still a month away. Click to expand...

Katsuki126 said: […] We are only seeing the beginning here. Click to expand...

MaxEisert said: Concerning balancing there will always be complaints and discussions. This is a never ending story. Click to expand...

UltimateIdiot said: This whole thread is funny beyond words. Like other posters, I genuinely can't say whether you're serious or not. […] Click to expand...

MarcoRossolini said: You're seeing this now, but I've seen 4 years of this with Company of Heroes 2 "balance" forums. Click to expand...

UltimateIdiot said: Yup, never read them for more than an hour, was a good reason to never play that game for more than 20hrs, and even that in co-op only. Click to expand...

U.S.

¹ Someone who isn't plain stupid and got brainwashed entertained by some four-month-ongoing and holiday-lasting torture guidance from History Channel's famous series called »World's greatest Firepower of WWII!« sporting those lovely reflection of reality …

Allies ≠ U.S.-, British- or Canadian forces, also known asTo be honest, it looks the game is far away fromcriterion which could match periphrases like „Real-life values“ or being somewhat realistic in terms of damage models and given vehicle's real-life characteristics – at least to me.Then you've must missed out the obvious irony and sarcasm (as most seem to do …), since I never ever statedlike that. Neither that ais a heavy tank, thewould be a SPATG or theshall be providing fighter capabilities.You may re-read my post;On theOn theHT:… which brings me to airplanes!Is that ..? Uhm ... Yup!my favoriteagain!Did I kept whining? I just tried to point out given issues on the realism the developer doesn't grow any tired mentioning keeping an eye on especially something like real-world behaviour.Haven't questioned it even once, orI?I just love to entertain, that's all.Anyway, thanks in advance for taking my words out of context here, much appreciated!Borderline comedy?Well … You have no clue how hard it really is to write stuff like that. That's not only hard work, thatI guess it may be somewhat doubtful if a Jumbo (or similar tanks) may have survived several SC 500Kg bombs, containing a massive 245Kg high explosive mixture of Amatol & TNT with a TNT-equivalent of about 260Kg.Youremember those sattle charges many military forces used during WWII, right? Some handful of 2-5Kg C4 stuffed together for some sticky bomb blasted away even the most armoured vehicle back then. Or those unaerodynamic 20Kg charges that could be fired up to 100 m. It was sufficient to breach or demolish many bunkers and earthworks et cetera …„Having an edge in halftracks“ … That's a charming way to describe its current state, yes!The Storch is a reconnaissance aircraft.You know, I didneed to be told that … See above.No bias here? Well, the balance you so prize isn't somethingon the actually given state the game currently has.Yes, i'm indeed aware of the star mechanics.… and yes, maybe it's a great idea to take a step back from the game – as it most likely seemed to turn out to be anotherbut just with a different flavour regarding the balancing mechanics and its attempts to reflect their kind of realism.No, i'm all in favour– I'm a jolly fellow at the end of the day!… but it just looked to me as if the first third of posters just jumped on the glorious blame-train and kept slamming »« towards me while the second one seems to haven't understood my intentions with what I've said at the outset – this introducing post which may I wrote with a handful of salt – or being somewhat salty.. Anyway, good luck on finding the difference on those, Chaps!In the end I came to the conclusion that only the last remaining sixty-fourth note may have gotten what I was aiming for and actually came in to drop some constructive criticism.Besides, I never said that on thedid it by dropping it in as the only plane on phase A on the 12. SS-Panzer which for unknown reasons have to face planes like the mentioned Mustang, the P-38 or a Spit. After all, see above please.I expected to post on a forum while imaging the majority of its participants are grown human beings while many of them are – at least,– educated (enough) to understand the minor and maybe subtle differences on and between sarcasm, salt, irony or saltiness.… but it actually seems I'm the only one of 'em: A lonely miner digging for some salt.Well, if it'searly to discuss balance here, why there's a thread called "" then? This thread does not only features way over +300 posts over twenty-two pages, but was one of the most prominent one on the forum the last couple of days, wasn't it?„It's too early to discuss balance (in favour of Germans) here …“, is it that what you're tried to say? Since it seems you were implying something like that. Besides there seem to be at least enough room for all the whining how underpowered U.S. forces are and despite the lobby has gone full decks on the 3rd already to carry some victories, right?Hopefully, yes …That's the bittersweet one unfortunately.My pleasure, but that's why we calling itWell … Let me say it that way; It's darn freaking hard for a good chunk of the playerbase playing Germany tosee themselves as victims the way most developers are giving a taste of their understanding on realism and balance. Since the majority of time and occasions, most game-developer, backed up by a great part of a given somewhat biased communityto put a tremendous amount of energy in doing exactly… Stomping and shouting towards anyone who might have a more neutral, slightly German-affected or inway different viewpoint than the crowd (whereas most of theenglish-speaking mainly stay informed by Infomercials¹ or if British are mostly driven by obvious and pure hate against any german while both types are capitalizing upon the "known" superior strength of any western allied forced of WWII but in reality purely embodies the phrase „The victor will create the history“.And since SD is the first game featuring the setting of WWII which ES plans to release, it seems the discussion impends to escalate in favour towards a allied biased viewpoint already here as most posts trying to ensure realism rather thanand pointing out what's wrong are spammed by fellows of the 'Murica-fraction. … as seen on countless games for sure and evidently and rapidly rising since a few years now but also since the end of the cold war in my opinion.Anyway, have a laugh or a heart, bestSmartcom