Anderson: The evolution of the black middle class on the South Side is a theme that runs throughout the book. The “privilege and the peril” experienced by this group of black Chicagoans within the context of deeply segregated neighborhoods reveals a complicated and complex history. From your observation, how do race, class, segregation patterns, and educational choices overlap?



Moore: I see a lot of middle-class parents, regardless of race, jockeying for slots in elite public schools. Chicago has created more of them over the years, but the flip side is that neighborhood schools are left behind. This has created a tiered system in Chicago Public Schools. Many schools suffer from double segregation, by both race and income, often in low-income black neighborhoods. I’ve lived in two black South Side neighborhoods: Chatham, a middle-class community where I grew up, and Bronzeville, [an up-and-coming area], as an adult. In both neighborhoods, many middle-class families didn’t or don’t send their children to the public elementary and especially not the high schools.



Many times neighborhood public schools don’t reflect the surrounding demographics. One of the “perils” of black middle-class neighborhoods is their proximity to poverty and lower-performing schools. We do see that black children—regardless of socioeconomic status—will travel outside of their neighborhoods for school. Chicago has the distinction of having some of the best and worst public schools in the state.



Anderson: The degree to which segregation pervades so many parts of black life is staggering. You profile Chicago’s Englewood neighborhood, and the emergence of urban agriculture as a tool to uplift the community, including its schools. Clearly, studies show poor nutrition among schoolchildren is linked to poor school performance. Is tackling the issue of food access showing promising gains?



Moore: Englewood has actually seen a decline over the years in its food-desert status. The neighborhood is at the center of the food-justice movement, and in September, Whole Foods will open a smaller market at a major intersection. Englewood is a community overrun with junk-filled corner stores and fast food. Residents have asked for more hot prepared food, community space, and food education. Urban agriculture, discount grocers, farmers markets, and nutrition education have contributed to the change.

Anderson: A year ago this month, 12 South Side activists—black parents and community leaders—staged a hunger strike to save Dyett High School in the Bronzeville neighborhood. As you chronicle, in 1962 black parents and students staged a sit-in for integration at a South-Side elementary school. Black parents fighting for educational equity in Chicago spans many decades. What is your forecast for black and Latino children in Chicago Public Schools?



Moore: [Currently] the most pressing issue … for many CPS families is the budget and whether teachers will strike. I think [in the long-term] we’re going to see a continued decline in overall CPS enrollment and an uptick in white enrollment. But the district will continue to be overwhelmingly black and brown.



Ever since the racial consent decree ended [in 2009, a federal judge lifted a 20-year school desegregation order], white students are overrepresented in the selective [high] schools that require testing. The [feeling] is that the city is pandering to white middle-class parents by continuing to build new schools in white neighborhoods.



Anderson: You note that Chicago officials have labeled segregated schools a problem “too big” to tackle. There is also a school of thought emerging in some education circles that the intractable nature of school segregation makes prioritizing integration akin to chasing the White Rabbit in Alice in Wonderland—unattainable and futile. Your writing underscores the inherent inequality of segregated schools. Talk about your findings, namely the flaws in equating black self-determination with all-black segregated schools.



Moore: Brushing off school integration as unattainable is such a cop out. In the Chicago region, we have been so saturated with segregation that we think it’s normal. And to be clear, self-selection is different from segregation. There’s also the argument that if the housing is segregated, so goes the schools and nothing can be done.



As the race scholar Gary Orfield [of the Civil Rights Project at UCLA] told me for my book, Chicago lacks imagination. The city is equally black, white, and Latino, so there are opportunities, [including] redrawing school boundaries, creating regional magnets, and staying ahead of changing housing patterns. My WBEZ [public radio] colleagues have diligently reported on how CPS school construction enables race and class segregation. So many missed opportunities and clearly no engagement on integration.

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