Original Post

Shern · Joined Oct 2012 · Points: 45 May 6, 2013 · Unknown Hometown Hey all--



My climbing partner and I had a pretty interesting experience on the West Face of the Leaning Tower last week. My partner was leading the 7th pitch when a nut placement popped after he weighted it. The crazy part is that the three placements below him all failed--resulting in a 55-60 foot whipper (factor 2?) arrested by my grigri. He fell from ~30 feet above the anchor and ended up ~30 feet below me hanging from my harness. Here's a short video right after his fall once I fixed the haul line and he was jugging back to the anchor: Anthony takes a fat drop.



From the anchor to his fall, he clipped a bolt with a trad draw, placed a nut with trad draw, and a .5 c4 with a trad draw. As he fell, the rope side biner on the c4 back clipped off the draw, and as far as we can figure, the rope side biners on the nut and bolt must have both crossloaded and broke. We decided to bail mostly because of time constraints, but admittedly we were both pretty shaken by the failure of three pretty solid pieces of gear. Once we rapped back to the ledge at the bottom of the first pitch, we met a party humping water up for a climb the next day. They actually found one of the broken biners on their approach! Pretty nuts.

failed mammut bent gate biner with intact biner for comparison.



What do y'all think? These were all my trad draws--mammut wire gates with mammut dynemma slings and mammut bent gates for the rope side. All three biners that backclipped/broke were the bent gates. They're about 7 years old and have been taken pretty good care of. Are these biners garbage? Should I send one somewhere? Thanks for the input.

sherb · Joined Dec 2012 · Points: 60 May 6, 2013 · Unknown Hometown Whoa that is scary. Maybe send the biners to mammut for testing. There is a site you can check what kN force the falling climber generated: myoan.net/climbart/climbfor…



I'm sure it didn't generate more than what the biners are rated for.



Are you saying the bolt the belayer was anchored to also failed? Or just the trad draw clipped to that? Because if the bolt that the belayer was anchored to failed, then the belayer was no longer anchored... and was trying to catch/pulled down by a huge fall force while on a ledge (or worse a hanging belay). Which in that case I think both would have tumbled.



Phew.... thank goodness for close calls.

Shern · Joined Oct 2012 · Points: 45 May 6, 2013 · Unknown Hometown Caprinae monkey wrote: Are you saying the bolt the belayer was anchored to also failed? Or just the trad draw clipped to that? Because if the bolt that the belayer was anchored to failed, then the belayer was no longer anchored... and was trying to catch/pulled down by a huge fall force while on a ledge (or worse a hanging belay). Which in that case I think both would have tumbled. No--I was belaying him from a two bolt anchor. He clipped a bolt 5 feet above the anchor and the ropeside biner on that trad draw failed. No--I was belaying him from a two bolt anchor. He clipped a bolt 5 feet above the anchor and the ropeside biner on that trad draw failed.

John D · Joined Nov 2010 · Points: 10 May 6, 2013 · Unknown Hometown Wow, now that is a weekend whipper! that's a gnarly rope burn/scrape on your arm/wrist. That's a scary fall, I think if I ever passed the belay, I'd figure it was game over.



So 3 rope end biners broke and the bottom one (that was on the bolt) unclipped? was the trad draw on the bolt tripled?



I wonder if the biners fell victim to gate flutter. I think (in my infinite wisdom of internet speculation) that some how the gates opened and that weakened the biners enough to break them. If they did get cross loaded like you think, you might want to rethink trad draws (I might rethink using them too). I've only done the south face of wash column, but I think I used a fair number of sport draws and clipped alot of cams direct. If I wanted a sling, I'd used one extended. I've never been a big fan of trad draws, they're so bulky and fiddly. Pretty scary, I'm glad both of you ended up ok.

Shern · Joined Oct 2012 · Points: 45 May 6, 2013 · Unknown Hometown John D wrote: So 3 rope end biners broke and the bottom one (that was on the bolt) unclipped? was the trad draw on the bolt tripled? three pieces had extended trad draws. the first (c4) must have come unclipped off the draw when he fell--the biner was still on the rope. the next two (a nut and bolt) also had extended trad draws. both biners broke.



yeah--we felt lucky. three pieces had extended trad draws. the first (c4) must have come unclipped off the draw when he fell--the biner was still on the rope. the next two (a nut and bolt) also had extended trad draws. both biners broke.yeah--we felt lucky.

Nate M · Joined Jun 2010 · Points: 135 May 6, 2013 · San Diego, CA Just out of curiosity, was he freeing that pitch or aiding it? Since you said he weighted a nut i'm assuming he aided that pitch. In that case why only a piece every 10 feet? Backcleaning? That pitch takes small-medium gear in the first 80 or so feet, but definitely C1 all day. The fact that multiple pieces of gear pulled on a crack like that, is just as perplexing to me as a broken biner. Are you sure he was leading with the lead line and not a static haul line? :)



EDIT: Sorry, just read your post clarifying. A couple more questions, 7 years old and taken good care of, im assuming no drops of any kind and you're the original owner? If yes to both, I would definitely send them in ASAP to Mammut.

bargainhunter · Joined Sep 2012 · Points: 5 May 6, 2013 · Unknown Hometown So if you hadn't had a grigri, would you have held the fall? Or do you think if you had an ATC, would you have let go of the rope when your hand/wrist got torqued against the wall?



I've done that route, fortunately for your leader, it's way overhanging. I've also rapped off above the Wet Denim Daydream crux pitch...a good lesson on how to rap off overhanging walls, eh?



Glad you guys didn't die. That was a serious wake up call for me to back up gear and not trust a single piece/draw and to always have a directional thru the anchor. I would have shat my pants. Thanks for posting this!



What was the leader's perspective? What was going thru his mind as he fell past you?

AlexandreK · Joined Sep 2012 · Points: 0 May 6, 2013 · Unknown Hometown The rope side back-clipping out of one piece, then breaking two biners, including one on a bolt? Man, that is the worst luck I have ever heard.



There has to be some explanation though, Mammut makes bomber gear and bent-gate's are some of the more solid gear you trust climbing. I wouldn't be surprised with either cross-loading or the gate's having somehow come open (though on two consecutive ones...man).



I don't own a grigri, trust my ATC, but it is stuff like this that makes me want to buy one...would I have been able to hold that fall with my head bashing into the rock on an ATC? who knows...

Kaleem Khwaja · Joined Apr 2012 · Points: 5 May 6, 2013 · Emeryville, California wow, that's scary. The impact force of any dynamic rope fall should be way less than what it takes to break a biner, even with the gate open, no? Do you know how many kN those biners were rated to? And how much does the climber weigh?

Makes me wonder if bent gates are more prone to opening in a fall.

Serious wake-up call. Glad you're in one piece, and thanks for posting.

Optimistic · Joined Aug 2007 · Points: 320 May 6, 2013 · New Paltz alleyehave wrote: Just out of curiosity, was he freeing that pitch or aiding it? Since you said he weighted a nut i'm assuming he aided that pitch. In that case why only a piece every 10 feet? Backcleaning? That pitch takes small-medium gear in the first 80 or so feet, but definitely C1 all day. The fact that multiple pieces of gear pulled on a crack like that, is just as perplexing to me as a broken biner. Are you sure he was leading with the lead line and not a static haul line? :) EDIT: Sorry, just read your post clarifying. A couple more questions, 7 years old and taken good care of, im assuming no drops of any kind and you're the original owner? If yes to both, I would definitely send them in ASAP to Mammut. The question about the static line is a really good one, any chance of that? I think everyone would really like that to be the answer, because the alternative is kind of terrifying!



I don't know what to think about people's concern regarding "trad draws"...two biners connected by a sling has been a pretty standard thing to do for about 90 years, and has held quite a lot of falls without an outcome like this...should we be switching to 24" dogbones? The question about the static line is a really good one, any chance of that? I think everyone would really like that to be the answer, because the alternative is kind of terrifying!I don't know what to think about people's concern regarding "trad draws"...two biners connected by a sling has been a pretty standard thing to do for about 90 years, and has held quite a lot of falls without an outcome like this...should we be switching to 24" dogbones?

CraigS. · Joined Apr 2012 · Points: 10 May 6, 2013 · Unknown Hometown Could you take a picture of the fractured surface of the broken biner, under a Macro lens/setting if you have one? Would love to see that to better get an understanding of how it failed. Oh, yeah, glad you are all safe!

csproul · Joined Dec 2009 · Points: 330 May 6, 2013 · Apex, NC I posted this on RC.com too, but I find this VERY hard to believe. A biner unclipping and TWO (rope side) biners breaking in one fall. Each of those events in incredibly unlikely, much less all three happening. Either you have the worst luck in the world, you have defective gear, someone out there really hates you and messed with your gear, or you've made the whole thing up. If this is real, I'd certainly contact Mammut and see if they want the biner(s); and glad to hear you're both ok.

The Pheonix · Joined Apr 2013 · Points: 60 May 6, 2013 · Unknown Hometown Wow... glad u kids are safe!! Good point about going through the anchor and way to make a vid just afterwards to keep the details fresh. Please report back with any updates... Lots will be watching this one.



Alex - just go get a grigri. If your climber knocked off a rock and it knocked you unconscious would you still be able to lock off for your climber with your ATC? Obviously not...

yosenhuttle · Joined Aug 2008 · Points: 20 May 6, 2013 · Unknown Hometown Same question as bargainhunter, do you think you could have held the fall with an ATC?

Tabo · Joined Aug 2006 · Points: 20 May 6, 2013 · Unknown Hometown Caprinae monkey wrote: There is a site you can check what kN force the falling climber generated: . Sorry if my last post was confusing.



The Myoan calculator doesn't calculate fall factor properly.



If you (for example) put in

80KG climber

30' rope

10' above last piece

Dynamic Rope



you *should* get

Fall Factor 0.66 (not 1.33)



Force on climber and force on the top piece depend on a lot of factors, but using some standard numbers, you'd get

5.8kN on the climber

9.7kN on the piece



Which are both probably much higher than actual forces due to a number of force-reducing things which are too numerous and difficult to account for.



Reducing (increasing) the weight of the climber in the calculations reduces (increases) the forces by a couple of tenths of a kN. Sorry if my last post was confusing.The Myoan calculator doesn't calculate fall factor properly.If you (for example) put in80KG climber30' rope10' above last pieceDynamic Ropeyou *should* getFall Factor 0.66 (not 1.33)Force on climber and force on the top piece depend on a lot of factors, but using some standard numbers, you'd get5.8kN on the climber9.7kN on the pieceWhich are both probably much higher than actual forces due to a number of force-reducing things which are too numerous and difficult to account for.Reducing (increasing) the weight of the climber in the calculations reduces (increases) the forces by a couple of tenths of a kN.

Locker · Joined Oct 2002 · Points: 2,269 May 6, 2013 · Yucca Valley, CA "I posted this on RC.com too, but I find this VERY hard to believe".



Only the LINK you posted takes you to a LAW FIRM, not, RC.n00b.



As to the OP and such...



WOW! Talk about some shit happening.



Seems to be quite a bit of FAILURE that took place.



STRANGE!

Captain Obvious · Joined Sep 2005 · Points: 1,231 May 6, 2013 · Sacramento, CA Locker wrote: "I posted this on RC.com too, but I find this VERY hard to believe". Only the LINK you posted takes you to a LAW FIRM, not, RC.n00b. As to the OP and such... WOW! Talk about some shit happening. Seems to be quite a bit of FAILURE that took place. STRANGE! On the plus side, a law firm probably has more to do with climbing than that site ;).



Crazy whipper! On the plus side, a law firm probably has more to do with climbing than that site ;).Crazy whipper!

Greg Barnes · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 1,939 May 6, 2013 · Unknown Hometown Biners break more often than people think...the gate-open strength of a typical biner can be exceeded in lots of falls. Not to mention the biner slapping against the rock, pinched in a corner, etc. The reason you don't hear about it more often is that people tend not to take hard falls. You have to assume that any biner will be loaded gate-open, even with wire gates (although they are much less likely to vibrate or slap open).



Example: a friend of mine was leading pitch 4 of Direct NW Face on Lembert Dome and fell at the crux (10c fingers, easier if your fingers are thin - but he has sausage fingers). Very short fall on an old fixed nut - which broke (the wire of the old nut). The next two pieces were bomber - but each biner broke, and he knocked his belayer off the belay ledge - she caught them both hanging from the anchor!



Another example - the Korean guy who pulled an old bolt on Shakey Flakes in Yosemite. He grabbed a draw, and the old 1/4" bolt simply broke. He slid 50 feet down the slab, and the rope-end biner on his draw snapped (huge fall, but on a slab, with a lot of rope out - not a high fall factor!). He continued for another 50 footer and luckily the anchor held, and the team managed to self rescue to the clinic. I have that biner in the ASCA collection - this incident was one of the reasons the ASCA was started!



Another friend climbed with a well known member of a major European climbing safety board - and that guy would clip any crux bolt with two opposite and opposed biners...

Rob D · Joined May 2011 · Points: 30 May 6, 2013 · Queens, NY Greg Barnes wrote: Another friend climbed with a well known member of a major European climbing safety board - and that guy would clip any crux bolt with two opposite and opposed biners... rope side or bolt side or both? I haven't heard about a locked biner breaking yet, so couldn't he just use a locking biner? rope side or bolt side or both? I haven't heard about a locked biner breaking yet, so couldn't he just use a locking biner?