Original Post

Brian Banta · Joined May 2012 · Points: 50 Sep 18, 2017 · Pacifica, CA encoding='utf-8' ? Not sure if this is the correct forum, (and Admins feel free to move it) but as a new and developing trad climber, this is forum I use most. I witnessed a very disturbing situation this weekend that had me asking lots of questions about our responsibility as climbers to ourselves and other climbers. If other parties on the route that day 9/16 can offer additional information please do. To make a long story short... I watched a free soloist nearly fall to his death on the Southeast Buttress of Cathedral peak. The climber was approximately 20' above the "alcove" just below the chimney pitch (I was below the climber on lead and had just placed my first piece). The soloist seemed to be having trouble making the move, either a step around a bulge, or directly over it, either move appeared to be 5.6. (At this point I moved out from directly below the climber and place a second bomber piece and clove hitched into it.) He removed his pack and then attempted to go over the bulge, and was really struggling, and called to climbers above to assist. The climbers above were able to throw down a section of rope, which the soloist was able to grab just as he slipped off the rock. The climber fell several feet due to rope stretch while continuing to hold on the rope, and came to rest in a semi-secure position. Both myself and the party above attempted to convince the climber to either tie the rope around themselves or somehow improvise a harness. The climber did not respond to these suggestions. After a few moments the climber was able to continue upward while holding the rope, make the step around, and head up to the climber above. I was able to lead the remaining short way up to the Chimney pitch and met up again with the soloist and the party that helped him. I was very surprised to hear that the Soloist had decided to continue climbing the rest of the route without any protection. At this point my partner and I decided that we would rather descend than continue to the summit. In the moment and in the hours since I have been asking myself many questions about this situation. What (if any) responsibility do we have as climbers to help other climbers that are ill prepared? Should I have just called YOSAR? Should I have attempted to communicate more with the climber? Should I have shown him how to tie a swami belt (out of the nearly 40' of webbing he had)? Offered to help him descend? What responsibility (if any) did he have to the other climbers on the mountain with him? It was clear that he put several other climbers at risk. (I don't think it useful to criticize free soloing in general in this discussion as I saw several other free soloist that day that seemed very competent and well informed on the route.) -Brian





Allen Sanderson · Joined Jul 2007 · Points: 1,199 Sep 18, 2017 · On the road to perdition encoding='utf-8' ? If you are not in the mood to witness a shit show, best to depart. I can not remember the exact scenario (not a soloist) but the climbers were a shit show, like you I recall mentioning something that would improve their safety but it was ignored. In the end we decided to depart because we really did not want to be around when the shit show hit the fan.

Andy Novak · Joined Aug 2007 · Points: 370 Sep 18, 2017 · Bailey, CO encoding='utf-8' ? Things like this will eventually happen if you spend enough time climbing very popular classics like the Southeast Buttress. I had a soloist lose his balance trying to get a fixed cam out and almost pitch directly onto my head on Corrugation Corner one year. I've been first on scene to a soloist taking an 80 foot fall on Werk Sup in Eldo and was totally mangled, but lived. It fucked me up for weeks. All you can do is hope they don't fall, and understand people are going to do what they want regardless of your own wishes. If you thought it was prudent to bail than that was the best decision. Soloists are gonna solo...

physnchips · Joined Jan 2016 · Points: 0 Sep 18, 2017 · Boulder, CO encoding='utf-8' ? if you solo, it's your choice after all, do it when no one else is around so only you get hurt. I don't want to get hit by a falling soloist and I also don't want to see their brains splattered near me. I think the climbers above, the ones that saved him, should had insisted he rap down on a diaper sling. He was clearly out of control and any real soloist (Honnold, Osman, Potter, etc.) makes a point to be in control at all times whether it is route rehearsal or just being well below their onsight limit.

Jason Kim · Joined Apr 2012 · Points: 255 Sep 18, 2017 · Encinitas, CA encoding='utf-8' ? I would have been mighty upset if that happened above me. I also would have offered help and done whatever I could to get him out of that situation safely, as long as he was receptive to it. At the end of the day, though, you are only responsible for yourself and your partner and you can't control other people on a shared resource like that peak. I've seen lots of soloists doing their thing and never once witnessed anything like that! That is nuts.

GTS · Joined Sep 2008 · Points: 0 Sep 18, 2017 · Unknown Hometown encoding='utf-8' ? physnchips wrote: He was clearly out of control and any real soloist (Honnold, Osman, Potter, etc.) makes a point to be in control at all times whether it is route rehearsal or just being well below their onsight limit. Simply not true. "Real" soloists have had near misses and times when they weren't in total control, even the great Honnold. Op: Sorry you were put in that situation. You did all could really do.

rafael · Joined Jul 2009 · Points: 35 Sep 18, 2017 · Berkeley, CA encoding='utf-8' ? Oh yes, that guy. I saw him too. My partner saw him farther up, at this point he was sort of hauling his backpack (I think it was a backpack) which was in a plastic shipping bag (like you get if you order a shirt online) with a savagely bright neon orange strip of webbing. He was dragging this luggage contraption by means of it being tied to his waist. He proceeded to drag this sack with a bag in it over someones lead line, which pulled down on the leader, the belayer of course began yelling at the soloist to get the hell out. He then begins heading for the variation above my partner (the optional 5.9 finger section at the top), she scares him off, and he goes for what appears to be 5.6 slab, where he procedes to get stuck, (despite offers of help from my partner). This is where I see him. After my partner leaves the ledge, the soloist sandbags the chimney section, calls it "5.2, super easy" (in a thick eastern european accent). Keep in mind that he was doing the sandbagging while being stuck on 5.6 slab I offer help a couple times, as he has been stuck on this easy slab for a while. He finally asks for me to throw him a rope. Since I had tied in short I have a rope end, so when I get above him I fix it to a cam, he yards on it, and wraps the rope around his wrist and pulls himself up. He then makes a beeline for the route that the rope im tied to runs up, but my partner hissed at him (the literal sound she made) and it scared him off. He makes it to the notch below the summit, I dont know if he made it down, but presumably he did. At some point another group offered to turn his neon orange webbing into a harness for him, but he apparently declined. This was just one incident in what was a shitshow of a day in the Tuolumne backcountry, another group we descended with had just done the TMC linkup, apparently one person on Matthes crest needed to be told which rope end to hold while belaying, and another leader asked "how do you place a nut?" as they were passed... The reply was "better ask your partner". Someone also fell on the 5.8 downclimb from the south summit, apparently there was a lot of screaming... yikes.

aikibujin · Joined Oct 2014 · Points: 294 Sep 19, 2017 · Castle Rock, CO encoding='utf-8' ? rafael wrote: This was just one incident in what was a shitshow of a day in the Tuolumne backcountry, another group we descended with had just done the TMC linkup, apparently one person on Matthes crest needed to be told which rope end to hold while belaying, and another leader asked "how do you place a nut?" as they were passed... The reply was "better ask your partner". Someone also fell on the 5.8 downclimb from the south summit, apparently there was a lot of screaming... yikes. What is this "Too-waa-lo-me" place you speak of, sounds like some new ride at Disneyland? (I know where Tuolumne is, I'm just joking)

Ryan Huetter · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 255 Sep 19, 2017 · Mammoth Lakes, CA encoding='utf-8' ? rafael wrote: Oh yes, that guy. I saw him too. My partner saw him farther up, at this point he was sort of hauling his backpack (I think it was a backpack) which was in a plastic shipping bag (like you get if you order a shirt online) with a savagely bright neon orange strip of webbing. He was dragging this luggage contraption by means of it being tied to his waist. He proceeded to drag this sack with a bag in it over someones lead line, which pulled down on the leader, the belayer of course began yelling at the soloist to get the hell out. This guy?! With a Russian (or similar) accent? I saw him doing the exact same thing a few weeks ago on Crystal Crag down here in Mammoth and was creating a similar shit show. I asked him what the heck his deal was and he replied, "Ees great solo seestem," so I left before I had to clean up the mess.

Andy Novak · Joined Aug 2007 · Points: 370 Sep 19, 2017 · Bailey, CO encoding='utf-8' ? Gabe Schwartz wrote: Did his haul bag happen to smell of fish heads? Maybe he did not make the bold flash due to bulging neck meat?

Brian Banta · Joined May 2012 · Points: 50 Sep 19, 2017 · Pacifica, CA encoding='utf-8' ? Thank you all for your responses. And thanks Rafael for filling in some holes in the story, I wasn't sure which party exactly threw him a rope. It was a shit show that day, but most people were polite and considerate, and tried to stay out of each other's way. -Brian

Ellis L · Joined Apr 2016 · Points: 91 Sep 19, 2017 · Chico, CA encoding='utf-8' ? There is a fine line with what you say to someone when they are soloing. I've seen sketchy, questionsable shit and had to walk away. Do you say something, And possibly rattle their focus even further - causing the unthinkable? Or should you eliminate yourself from the situation and look away?

Luke Bertelsen · Joined Feb 2005 · Points: 4,352 Sep 19, 2017 · Tucson, AZ encoding='utf-8' ? physnchips wrote: if you solo, it's your choice after all, do it when no one else is around so only you get hurt. I don't want to get hit by a falling soloist and I also don't want to see their brains splattered near me. I think the climbers above, the ones that saved him, should had insisted he rap down on a diaper sling. He was clearly out of control and any real soloist (Honnold, Osman, Potter, etc.) makes a point to be in control at all times whether it is route rehearsal or just being well below their onsight limit. 2/3 of the 'real soloists' you mention are deceased. Granted that neither of them died soloing, but it's still slightly ironic that you choose to give them more cred than the many other soloists out there.

Tradiban · Joined Apr 2004 · Points: 11,610 Sep 19, 2017 · Unknown Hometown encoding='utf-8' ? Brian Banta wrote: Not sure if this is the correct forum, (and Admins feel free to move it) but as a new and developing trad climber, this is forum I use most. I witnessed a very disturbing situation this weekend that had me asking lots of questions about our responsibility as climbers to ourselves and other climbers. If other parties on the route that day 9/16 can offer additional information please do. To make a long story short... I watched a free soloist nearly fall to his death on the Southeast Buttress of Cathedral peak. The climber was approximately 20' above the "alcove" just below the chimney pitch (I was below the climber on lead and had just placed my first piece). The soloist seemed to be having trouble making the move, either a step around a bulge, or directly over it, either move appeared to be 5.6. (At this point I moved out from directly below the climber and place a second bomber piece and clove hitched into it.) He removed his pack and then attempted to go over the bulge, and was really struggling, and called to climbers above to assist. The climbers above were able to throw down a section of rope, which the soloist was able to grab just as he slipped off the rock. The climber fell several feet due to rope stretch while continuing to hold on the rope, and came to rest in a semi-secure position. Both myself and the party above attempted to convince the climber to either tie the rope around themselves or somehow improvise a harness. The climber did not respond to these suggestions. After a few moments the climber was able to continue upward while holding the rope, make the step around, and head up to the climber above. I was able to lead the remaining short way up to the Chimney pitch and met up again with the soloist and the party that helped him. I was very surprised to hear that the Soloist had decided to continue climbing the rest of the route without any protection. At this point my partner and I decided that we would rather descend than continue to the summit. In the moment and in the hours since I have been asking myself many questions about this situation. What (if any) responsibility do we have as climbers to help other climbers that are ill prepared? Should I have just called YOSAR? Should I have attempted to communicate more with the climber? Should I have shown him how to tie a swami belt (out of the nearly 40' of webbing he had)? Offered to help him descend? What responsibility (if any) did he have to the other climbers on the mountain with him? It was clear that he put several other climbers at risk. (I don't think it useful to criticize free soloing in general in this discussion as I saw several other free soloist that day that seemed very competent and well informed on the route.) -Brian



Huh? Of course you have a responsibility to help if you can. Huh? Yes, the soloist has responsibility to keep others around them safe as well. But stupid happens, if he fell and it didn't cause a problem for another party then just keep climbing. The body can be recovered later.

physnchips · Joined Jan 2016 · Points: 0 Sep 19, 2017 · Boulder, CO encoding='utf-8' ? Luke Bertelsen wrote: 2/3 of the 'real soloists' you mention are deceased. Granted that neither of them died soloing, but it's still slightly ironic that you choose to give them more cred than the many other soloists out there. Hah, I was thinking about that as I wrote it but those guys seem to have the most mainstream solo exposure so that's why I listed them (there seems to be a pretty long list of pros that are known to solo and I definitely don't know them all). You don't have to be a pro to be a 'real soloist,' hope I didn't give that impression, but you do have to have your shit together which all those guys do/did and this guy did not. I don't want disparage all soloists, as I said it's your choice, but it's a big fuck-up all around (impacts more than the soloist) if you solo something you can barely handle (or worse, can't handle). This guy, and any soloist having similar issues, should be safely pulled off the wall for the benefit of everyone.

JohnnyG · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 10 Sep 19, 2017 · Unknown Hometown encoding='utf-8' ? Was this a prank? It is so ridiculous, with the accent, and the backpack in a plastic bag, and the neon webbing.