Vince



Posts: 8346







DeveloperPosts: 8346 CSG update #39 - The third iteration « on: September 03, 2019, 09:01:22 pm »







- removed all caps from the textbox, added a corresponding skill and level to the weapon slots, the character level, plus replaced words like DMG and AMMO with icons to reduce clutter, added a reaction chance, resized the overhead portraits.

- replaced the disco floor with the movement range but if you prefer the grid you can bring it back via Options.

- still working on the firing range as we need to show both the effective and maximum ranges

- added proper cursors for all occasions (pointer, examine, target, interact, open, climb, etc)

- replaced the old targeting info with a new one (blue - critical, green - hit, yellow - graze, red - miss; pressing ALT gives you a full breakdown of each value)

- replaced the old overhead icons with new ones (the eye shows the effect of your cover, its effect on the enemy's THC; the shield shows the enemy's cover, its effect on your THC)











^ Here I'm planning to move (see the arrow that shows the AP cost), notice that the overhead icons above the enemies changed. The icons with the blue arrows show the effect of the move; the effect of his cover and my cover will be reduced. The green targeting cursor indicates that this character will be able to shoot from that location.







^ Notice the enemy flanking me. The text above the shield is temporary (right now it's a developer tool to make sure that enemies shields are working properly; we'll either remove the text later or pretty it up).



It's still work in progress, but do let us know what you think.





As you probably know, we're waiting for the missing animations (the once long list has been reduced to two-handed weapons and grenades), portraits (8 NPC portraits to go), and armor (all vests, boots and leggings, helmets, goggles, and gas masks are done; waiting for the jackets and coats, which will be done after all animations are in). While we're waiting, we made some changes and improvements.- removed all caps from the textbox, added a corresponding skill and level to the weapon slots, the character level, plus replaced words like DMG and AMMO with icons to reduce clutter, added a reaction chance, resized the overhead portraits.- replaced the disco floor with the movement range but if you prefer the grid you can bring it back via Options.- still working on the firing range as we need to show both the effective and maximum ranges- added proper cursors for all occasions (pointer, examine, target, interact, open, climb, etc)- replaced the old targeting info with a new one (blue - critical, green - hit, yellow - graze, red - miss; pressing ALT gives you a full breakdown of each value)- replaced the old overhead icons with new ones (the eye shows the effect of your cover, its effect on the enemy's THC; the shield shows the enemy's cover, its effect on your THC)^ Here I'm planning to move (see the arrow that shows the AP cost), notice that the overhead icons above the enemies changed. The icons with the blue arrows show the effect of the move; the effect of his cover and my cover will be reduced. The green targeting cursor indicates that this character will be able to shoot from that location.^ Notice the enemy flanking me. The text above the shield is temporary (right now it's a developer tool to make sure that enemies shields are working properly; we'll either remove the text later or pretty it up).It's still work in progress, but do let us know what you think. « Last Edit: September 03, 2019, 09:25:53 pm by Vince » Logged

Dewey_Master



Posts: 362





ColonistPosts: 362 Re: CSG update #39 - The third iteration « Reply #1 on: September 03, 2019, 11:04:35 pm » 1) On the third screen, is there a reason we see the pre-movement status of the shield icon but not the pre-movement status of the eye icon?



2) What do the symbols (bullet, sword, lightning) under the targeted enemy's health bar mean?



3) It looks like the outer of the two ranges marked by red dashed lines indicates effective range. What is the purpose of the inner red dashed line? A "can't attack" zone? If the three relevant ranges are (1) can't attack, (2) effective range, and (3) max range, perhaps you could use dashes of different colors to differentiate. If it's really necessary to mark out (1), perhaps something like red (1), green (2), and yellow (3); or if the range of (1) is pretty standard and doesn't need to be constantly marked, yellow (2) and red (3). But without playing around with the interface, it's hard to say if those suggestions would be helpful at all. Logged

menyalin



Posts: 475





CraftsmanPosts: 475 Re: CSG update #39 - The third iteration « Reply #2 on: September 04, 2019, 02:25:49 am » 1) How about shielded character giving cover to other character behind? It's just expectable mechanic from how shields visualized now and can add some additional depth to combat situatoins.



2) Will be shield easier to hit because of obviously bigger hit surface? It could be interesting mechanic and tradeoff: get additional HP, but suffer additional damage to shield HP pool because some shot which misses your body wouldn't miss your much bigger shield. Hmm, maybe make all graze hits to full hits, when damage is calculated against shield HP? Thus, with additional HP shield can be made more effective against "marksmans" but especially weak against enemies relying on fast shooting and bursts, making its usage more tactical and situational.



3) Do you have something like "Hunker down" action from XCOM when character looses his turn but gain additional defense from the cover? Useful option to save some heavily wounded or just weak allies in permadeath gameplay setting. « Last Edit: September 04, 2019, 02:29:19 am by menyalin » Logged

Vince



Posts: 8346







DeveloperPosts: 8346 Re: CSG update #39 - The third iteration « Reply #4 on: September 04, 2019, 09:37:29 am » Quote from: Dewey_Master on September 03, 2019, 11:04:35 pm 1) On the third screen, is there a reason we see the pre-movement status of the shield icon but not the pre-movement status of the eye icon? We forgot to remove it.



Quote 2) What do the symbols (bullet, sword, lightning) under the targeted enemy's health bar mean? Enermy's DR (ballistic, melee, energy) but you're right, these symbols should probably be in a small shield otherwise nobody will figure it out without help.



Quote 3) It looks like the outer of the two ranges marked by red dashed lines indicates effective range. What is the purpose of the inner red dashed line? A "can't attack" zone? Can't attack (except snap shots with smaller guns) zone.



Quote If the three relevant ranges are (1) can't attack, (2) effective range, and (3) max range, perhaps you could use dashes of different colors to differentiate. I'm thinking of removing it altogether and replacing it with something else, but this something else is still being worked on.



Quote from: menyalin on September 04, 2019, 02:25:49 am 1) How about shielded character giving cover to other character behind? It's just expectable mechanic from how shields visualized now and can add some additional depth to combat situatoins. Other characters (shielded or not) don't give cover but they can block your line of sight so you may not be able to target enemy B if he's directly behind enemy A. Depends on the angle, of course.



Quote 2) Will be shield easier to hit because of obviously bigger hit surface? No. If you miss the enemy, the damage gets deflected without draining the shield and the textbox message makes it clear. The shield gets drained only when you hit the target, otherwise it could be drained in two bursts from SMGs.



Quote 3) Do you have something like "Hunker down" action from XCOM when character looses his turn but gain additional defense from the cover? Useful option to save some heavily wounded or just weak allies in permadeath gameplay setting. No.

We forgot to remove it.Enermy's DR (ballistic, melee, energy) but you're right, these symbols should probably be in a small shield otherwise nobody will figure it out without help.Can't attack (except snap shots with smaller guns) zone.I'm thinking of removing it altogether and replacing it with something else, but this something else is still being worked on.Other characters (shielded or not) don't give cover but they can block your line of sight so you may not be able to target enemy B if he's directly behind enemy A. Depends on the angle, of course.No. If you miss the enemy, the damage gets deflected without draining the shield and the textbox message makes it clear. The shield gets drained only when you hit the target, otherwise it could be drained in two bursts from SMGs.No. Logged

Wizard1200



Posts: 443





ColonistPosts: 443 Re: CSG update #39 - The third iteration « Reply #5 on: September 04, 2019, 11:27:54 am »



The combat log would be easier to read in my opinion if you use indents:

combat, combat

combat, combat, combat,

combat, combat

combat, combat combat, combat, combat

The hp and ap indicator below the portrait should be removed in my opinion, because the portraits at the left side of the screen display this information.



I think that the current DR icons are great and you can explain them during the tutorial. The new UI looks MUCH better in my opinion.The combat log would be easier to read in my opinion if you use indents:The hp and ap indicator below the portrait should be removed in my opinion, because the portraits at the left side of the screen display this information.I think that the current DR icons are great and you can explain them during the tutorial. « Last Edit: September 04, 2019, 03:13:09 pm by Wizard1200 » Logged

ioci



Posts: 22







NovicePosts: 22 Re: CSG update #39 - The third iteration « Reply #6 on: September 04, 2019, 11:56:31 pm »

The targeting tooltip is awesome

The combat log is reader-friendly like Scott said



Great job



Now, a few questions

Are you going to further revise those equipment cards and portrait at the bottom of the screen? I like how you organize them like the character is actually equipping them, but they seem to be a little too informative this time and have covered some of those beautiful map areas which makes the screen looks smaller. I understand that you want to show the exp bars to help players tracking their progress, but could it be cost-effectively possible to show them only on mouse hovering or by pressing a hotkey? I think you might set a hotkey for temporally extending the combat log anyway, so maybe upon pressing this same hotkey, show the detailed exp information along with it as well?



And will you show the shield HP on the fixed UI area? A shield HP bar would be nice. And I think it would be more gracefully to look at if a layer of the same shield pattern with transparency was over the portraits. So it would be easier to notice who has this protection on and who doesn't. It would be even better if the coverage of this layer could drop according to the lost shield HP The floor is beautiful during the maneuverThe targeting tooltip is awesomeThe combat log is reader-friendly like Scott saidGreat jobNow, a few questionsAre you going to further revise those equipment cards and portrait at the bottom of the screen? I like how you organize them like the character is actually equipping them, but they seem to be a little too informative this time and have covered some of those beautiful map areas which makes the screen looks smaller. I understand that you want to show the exp bars to help players tracking their progress, but could it be cost-effectively possible to show them only on mouse hovering or by pressing a hotkey? I think you might set a hotkey for temporally extending the combat log anyway, so maybe upon pressing this same hotkey, show the detailed exp information along with it as well?And will you show the shield HP on the fixed UI area? A shield HP bar would be nice. And I think it would be more gracefully to look at if a layer of the same shield pattern with transparency was over the portraits. So it would be easier to notice who has this protection on and who doesn't. It would be even better if the coverage of this layer could drop according to the lost shield HP Logged Error 404: Imagination not found

Vince



Posts: 8346







DeveloperPosts: 8346 Re: CSG update #39 - The third iteration « Reply #7 on: September 10, 2019, 02:12:25 pm »







An ancient pair of boots once issued by the Ship Authority to every citizen onboard. The Ship Authority is long gone now and so are free boots.





Heavy duty boots with rubberized steel toes and carbon fiber kneepads. Made for dirty work, these boots will soften hard blows and turn bullets as easily as pebbles.





Regular Ship Authority-issued boots with pointed steel toes and reinforced knee guards. Good for kicking things.





These boots were made for welding, but that's probably not what they're going to do. Along with standard metatarsal guard and heat-absorbent padding, this pair comes with shin guards and kneepads salvaged from damaged combat suits.





A vital component of the Destroyer S300 armor set, this high-tech leg armor will make you impervious to any low-grade weaponry typical of rebel scum.





Some (but not all) leg armor for your amusement. All these details will be seen on your character. The pointy boots will look great on your character so finally you can role-play Griff from Back to the Future 2!An ancient pair of boots once issued by the Ship Authority to every citizen onboard. The Ship Authority is long gone now and so are free boots.Heavy duty boots with rubberized steel toes and carbon fiber kneepads. Made for dirty work, these boots will soften hard blows and turn bullets as easily as pebbles.Regular Ship Authority-issued boots with pointed steel toes and reinforced knee guards. Good for kicking things.These boots were made for welding, but that's probably not what they're going to do. Along with standard metatarsal guard and heat-absorbent padding, this pair comes with shin guards and kneepads salvaged from damaged combat suits.A vital component of the Destroyer S300 armor set, this high-tech leg armor will make you impervious to any low-grade weaponry typical of rebel scum. Logged

Vince



Posts: 8346







DeveloperPosts: 8346 Re: CSG update #39 - The third iteration « Reply #8 on: September 10, 2019, 05:16:44 pm » Quote from: ioci on September 04, 2019, 11:56:31 pm Are you going to further revise those equipment cards and portrait at the bottom of the screen? Of course. Here's the latest version:







Quote ... but they seem to be a little too informative this time... We want to make sure the players are given all the info they need to understand what's going on. It's more important than having a minimalistic (but pretty) interface that tells you very little.



Quote And will you show the shield HP on the fixed UI area? A shield HP bar would be nice. Most likely. Since we show enemies' HP no reason not to show shields' HP.



Quote It would be even better if the coverage of this layer could drop according to the lost shield HP

Of course. Here's the latest version:We want to make sure the players are given all the info they need to understand what's going on. It's more important than having a minimalistic (but pretty) interface that tells you very little.Most likely. Since we show enemies' HP no reason not to show shields' HP.Everything is possible but it also takes time, so I can't say right now how much time we'll be able to allocate to 'detailing'. Logged

JimiHendrix



Posts: 5





NeophytePosts: 5 Re: CSG update #39 - The third iteration « Reply #9 on: September 11, 2019, 06:21:42 pm » Looks decent, except for the bullet damage symbol bellow the weapon art. It's gone for good on the screenshot from yesterday though.

I hope the shield and eye icons appear only on player's turn, it might be annoying otherwise.



"Looter hopped on the last shuttle to everlasting glory" - nice one, Vince :'D The best part of the update. aside from the boots descriptions. Logged

Scott



Posts: 2415







DeveloperPosts: 2415 Re: CSG update #39 - The third iteration « Reply #12 on: September 12, 2019, 10:25:43 am » Quote from: Vince on September 10, 2019, 05:16:44 pm We want to make sure the players are given all the info they need to understand what's going on. It's more important than having a minimalistic (but pretty) interface that tells you very little.

It is important to know what's going on but except for the combat log, that chunky bottom bar could be reduced to 70-75% of its current size and still show the same info. Takes up a lot of space.



Graphical improvements are major, especially losing that god-awful neon grid! One nitpick: shield or not, the bullet-sword-lightning icons need to be closer to the related numbers. It is important to know what's going on but except for the combat log, that chunky bottom bar could be reduced to 70-75% of its current size and still show the same info. Takes up a lot of space.Graphical improvements are major, especially losing that god-awful neon grid! One nitpick: shield or not, the bullet-sword-lightning icons need to be closer to the related numbers. Logged contributed to: Age of Decadence | Dead State | Dungeon Rats | Battle Brothers | Fell Seal:Arbiter's Mark | Stygian

working on: Colony Ship RPG | Encased | ATOM RPG | Realms Beyond | Fell Seal:Missions&Monsters | Urtuk: The Desolation

Vince



Posts: 8346







DeveloperPosts: 8346 Re: CSG update #39 - The third iteration « Reply #13 on: September 12, 2019, 10:51:31 am » Quote from: Scott on September 12, 2019, 10:25:43 am Quote from: Vince on September 10, 2019, 05:16:44 pm We want to make sure the players are given all the info they need to understand what's going on. It's more important than having a minimalistic (but pretty) interface that tells you very little.

It is important to know what's going on but except for the combat log, that chunky bottom bar could be reduced to 70-75% of its current size and still show the same info. Takes up a lot of space. It is important to know what's going on but except for the combat log, that chunky bottom bar could be reduced to 70-75% of its current size and still show the same info. Takes up a lot of space.



Hovering your cursor over hyperlinks is out of the question. We don't want the players who want to know more to perform repetitive actions after each attack. So the textbox represents detailed info. Players who don't need it or already understand how the system works can minimize it and get less detailed info from the floating numbers (like in Dungeon Rats). This feature isn't implemented yet though.

You can minimize it if you don't like it but I don't see a way to reduce its size. AoD textbox wasn't very informative. It told you what happened but not why or how, which led (and still leads) to a lot of complaints and players wondering if the enemies are playing by the same rules. Just today I was asked why throwing weapons can bypass the player's armor. The answer is simple - it's the throwing weapons' passive ability but a new player doesn't know that. The most popular complaint was daggers vs armor. The textbox didn't explain why your armor was reduced, so some players assumed it was either some bugs or cheating. Etc.Hovering your cursor over hyperlinks is out of the question. We don't want the players who want to know more to perform repetitive actions after each attack. So the textbox represents detailed info. Players who don't need it or already understand how the system works can minimize it and get less detailed info from the floating numbers (like in Dungeon Rats). This feature isn't implemented yet though. Logged