Lena Dunham: Sexual abuse or sexual exploration?

Ann Oldenburg | USA TODAY

The controversy surrounding passages in Lena Dunham's memoir, Not That Kind of Girl, is not going away.

Lawyers are involved.

And it has raised a question that's prompted a lot of debate. Specifically, what is normal when it comes to kids and sex?

A legal team for Dunham sent a letter to TruthRevolt.org asking that it remove its story highlighting "unsettling" passages in Dunham's book.

The legal notice, sent by Los Angeles lawyer Charles Harder, claims the story is "false and fabricated, and highly defamatory."

Truth Revolt, a site run by Ben Shapiro, editor at large for Breitbart News, has not taken down the story.

"We refuse," says a response on the site.

Editors say they would welcome a deposition with Dunham in which they could ask "why she believes it is now appropriate for a 28-year-old woman to make light of opening her baby sister's vagina, paying her with candies for prolonged kisses on the lips in the manner of a 'sexual predator,' or masturbating in bed next to her prepubescent sister."

The Girls star was at first angry over articles that characterized her writings of her at age 7 with sister Grace, 1, as "sexual abuse." And then Dunham apologized, saying she was "sorry" if the situations in the book were "painful or triggering for people to read."

Grace tweeted a defense of her sister, writing that people should be able to determine "for themselves what has and has not been normal."

So, what IS normal?

Is it normal for a 7-year-old to look at her 1-year-old sister's vagina? Is it normal for sisters to share the same bed until ages 17 and 11? What about one bribing the other with candy for a five-second kiss on the lips?

Lachrista Greco, of a group called Guerrilla Feminism wrote, in a Facebook post: "Do I think what Lena Dunham did to her sister was sexual assault? Yes. And to those of you who have defended her heinous actions, YOUR voice is silencing to many commenters who openly discussed their own experiences of incest, sexual assault, etc. ... It's NOT NORMAL. It's NOT OKAY."

At the same time, a new tumblr, Those Kinds of Girls, popped up as a response to Dunham's writings, with anonymous postings about antics similar to those described by Dunham.

In the world of sexual behavior, experts says it's not unusual.

"This type of touching and exploration is relatively common," says Debby Hebernick, associate professor in Indiana University's School of Public Health and author of Sex Made Easy. "It's common for young children to explore their own bodies and even those of friends or siblings in this way. That doesn't mean it's OK. And it's just as common for parents, teachers and caregivers to set boundaries and to teach children what's OK and what's not OK."

Hebernick didn't consider Dunham's passages titillating. . "There's not even anything sexual here," she says. "This is touching of the genitals. And the way the vast majority of times that children and adults touch their genitals has nothing to do with sex."

The American Academy of Pediatrics says parents should expect touching to happen. HealthyChildren.org, overseen by the Academy, writes in its Ages and Stages guidelines that at 4 to 5 years of age a child might show an interest in touching "her own genitals and may even show an interest in the genitals of other children."

Susan Segal, a Washington, D.C., sex therapist who has treated many sexual abuse victims, says, "Do I think it's sexual abuse? I really don't. It's a sensitive issue, but I don't think it's abuse. I think the way she wrote about it was very flip. Seven-year-olds do get into looking at each others' bodies – that's pretty natural between 5 and 7."

Segal has watched Girls, Dunham's HBO show, and says, "When I read it, it seemed strange and sort of funny. I think she's got a droll sense of humor and got called on it around a sensitive issue."

Laura Berman, Chicago-based sex and relationship therapist and host of the Uncovered radio show, says, "If it's sexual in nature, if there is the intent to arouse or be aroused, even if it's not fully articulated, then it is a gray line. It's not very black and white."

She says it's difficult to know exactly what went on based on a few passages in a book.

"We could make up a whole story of how Lena was molested. We could paint these behaviors and slant them toward red flags for sexual abuse. But they could just as easily be totally innocent, non-sexual, non-molesting exploratory behaviors." On the face of it, says Berman, "I don't think anything presented is necessarily a huge red flag."