== Topic for #futuristparty is: Next Meeting, Wednesday 5 / 7

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idk18

welcome, Houshalter

Houshalter

hello

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EdEnlightenU

Hey

idk18

hey Ed

EdEnlightenU

are we doing stack tonight?

idk18

I thought we would

in fact, do you want to facilitate?

EdEnlightenU

I could try... haven 't dont it before

idk18

first time for everything

Xenophon1

idk18 will you take the honor?

EdEnlightenU

If we don't have too many people show then stack might not be necessary

idk18

I think it's good for someone new to do it as much as possible

EdEnlightenU

Having this sunday next week might be better than saturday

Xenophon1

Maybe once -a -week would be more popular

idk18

maybe. My sunday availability is iffy, but whatever the majority wants to do

EdEnlightenU

I kinda like meeting twice a week personally

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idk18

the drop in activity is to be expected

EdEnlightenU

Hey Jet

Jet

Hello

EdEnlightenU

Where are ya from?

Jet

North Carolina

I ran into the subreddit a few days ago, got interested

EdEnlightenU

nice... anywhere close to UNC greensboro?

Jet

Yes actually, south Charlotte

EdEnlightenU

really cool one of my best friends just graduated from there this year

Jet

About an hours drive

I hope this isn't going to be the max activity

EdEnlightenU

We'll start in 5 min

idk18

Jet: we're usually a bigger crowd

Jet

Alright cool

idk18

saturdays sound like they're not a good time for most folks

xenophon1's suggestion of once a week might not be a bad.

EdEnlightenU

I did a major update to the website

http: // futurist -party . appspot . com /

kitzibot

[ Futurist Party ] - futurist -party . appspot . com

EdEnlightenU

Did a google venture layout

idk18

oooh, neat

I like

EdEnlightenU

Only the main page is done.... the rest shouldn't be too hard though once the template is done

Xeno or Jet any thoughts

or Houshalter

idk18

so it's 9:10. We can probably start. Should we take a vote on whether to use the stack system? There's only 5 of us tonight, it looks like

EdEnlightenU

I'd say no

Xenophon1

no

EdEnlightenU

no

idk18

I

will vote nay too

lol

but

I wrote a thing up in anticipation of being in stack

can I paste it in to start us off?

EdEnlightenU

sure

idk18

"Before going any farther, I want us to stop and examine the decision to create a political party.

A political party is a machine. Donors input money to fund campaigns. Successful campaigns produce politicians who output policy which the donors support.

We lack a donor list . But I think we all have an idea of who is most likely to fund our campaigns. That is, the newly made millionaires and billionaires of the technology industry. Men like Elon Musk and Pierre Omidyar. In a phrase, Silicon Valley Money.

All discussion about organizing politically should confront how the organization will be funded. Without money, we risk becoming another fringe party, the type of party which is registered in a dozen states, has a thousand members, and occasionally runs a candidate for a state -wide office who gets 5% of the vote. In other words, if we don't tackle this issue we will remain irrelevant.

I have a specific suggestion concerning this issue which I will propose later, but first I want to just start the conversation.

/end

EdEnlightenU

I am in favor of staying a political party

It's that or a think tank

Jet

The site looks great

EdEnlightenU

thanks

The democratic party is just as corrupt as the republican

Xenophon1

Great insights. Money plays an inalienable role

EdEnlightenU

We're at infant stage

we haven't tried to raise money....

idk what do you propose instead?

Xenophon1

Rithius had a post

http: // www. reddit . com / r / futuristparty / comments / 24kp9g / what_are_your_thoughts_on_money_in_politics /

kitzibot

[ What are your thoughts on money in politics? : futuristparty ] - www. reddit . com

EdEnlightenU

Isn't that more referring about lobbying?

idk18

lobbying is a part of it, but campaign contributions are huge

EdEnlightenU: I guess you've already heard my proposal. The "think tank"

I can copy that in here too if people'd like to read it

Xenophon1

Yeah that'd be great

idk18

So I call this the "three pronged" approach. The idea is to use the system to make the change, rather than biting at its angles

part 1:

A Think Tank and Public Awareness Institute, similar in function to the Heritage Foundation. At first glance this would probably be incorporated as a 501 ( c ) 3, though I need to do more research on the particulars. The purpose of this organization would be to change the content of political discourse. Like the Heritage Foundation helped make tax cuts the issue of the day, this organization would work to popularize a lot of the issues we are talking about ( N

2. 501 ( c ) 4 organizations. A Political Action Committee to raise funds for candidates we support and a lobbyist organization to give us a voice in drafting legislation on the hill. Again , this is from the very sucessful Heritage Foundation model. They have a constellation of organizations which allow them to operate politically despite their non -political status as a 501 ( c ) 3.

3. Organizations to facilitate grass -roots campaigns. These would pop -up and fade away based on the on the issues of the day. For example, right now I feel we need to organize against the threats to Net Neutrality. These organizations would likely take the form of loose coalitions between our foundation and relevant groups such as the Electronic Frontier Foundation and American Civil Liberties Union. Once steps 1. and 2. are accomplished, the resulting pol

basically, we want to formulate ourselves as something that the silicon valley types, whose money we want, could believe we have the potential power to make change

Xenophon1

We have much to contemplate as our movement evolves.

EdEnlightenU

idk18 if we were to label ourselves as a think tank do you think we would get more or less interest?

idk18

we wouldn't be relabeling ourselves. We would be developing a pitch to groups like the Millenium Project, Machine Intelligence Institute, Electronic Frontier Foundation, Basic Income Network, etc. etc . that we need to enact the above plan.

we need to move beyond the idea that this subreddit has any sort of significance

EdEnlightenU

We could still pitch them as the Futurist Party and they would be equally if not more interested

idk18

why is that?

EdEnlightenU

To support a party aligned with their interests

idk18

I'm sorry, but third parties don't work

the only time a new party has ever succeeded is when the one it replaced was dying

EdEnlightenU

I mean that is the difference in our opinion

The republican party is somewhat dying

idk18

and it's an extremely serious difference which deserves to be fully hashed out, because if I'm right then this party thing is a massive waste of time

EdEnlightenU

Why can't we do the things you're suggesting as the party is growing?

idk18

my basic point is that the party won't grow beyond the "registered in 12 states, ran a candidate who got 5% in a state election once" stage

and so my alternative is something I think is feasible

EdEnlightenU

Why couldn't it be accomplished in parallel?

Houshalter

I don't recognize the website lol

EdEnlightenU

yea definitely changed it up a bit

hah

EdEnlightenU

idk are yo uncomfortable doing both in parallel?

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Xenophon1

Greetings

idk18

EdEnlightenU, I think associating those organizations with a new political party will cause them to be stillborn

if the funders we need aren't willing to fund a political party, then pitching them an idea which is linked to a third party will make it toxic

EdEnlightenU

we haven't approached the funders.... they may love the idea of funding our party...

so it just as likely might be beneficial to be a think tank tied to our party

Aren't there think tanks that exist that promote Net Neutrality?

How would our think tank be any different?

idk18

I'm clearly not getting through

no, we haven't approached them

Xenophon1

Free Press, Demand Progress

Media Justice, Open Technology Institute

BipolarBear0

Do people want to make a political party /

That / should be a ?

EdEnlightenU

Yes there is a lot of interest

That's is what the people on the subreddit have been talking about the last month

BipolarBear0

Think about this

EdEnlightenU

every day

BipolarBear0

Gary Johnson -- wildly popular guy, left New Mexico with a $1 billion dollar surplus

The biggest third party candidate in the past two decades

Ran in 2012 and I actually helped organize a few of his events in Denver

Gary Johnson got over 1 million votes in the 2012 election

Which totalled... 1 percent of the national vote

Now he's still speaking and touring, but the impact he had as a third party candidate? Almost nonexistent.

And that's just his running as an LP candidate, which is the largest third party by a wide margin

As an advocacy group there's a much larger potential to enact actual change than anything else

Xenophon1

Interesting thoughts. Good to hear from you.

A major political party does not become one over night though.

They start

on the fringe.

BipolarBear0

The Libertarian Party has been in existence for 41 years

41 years later, Gary Johnson was the party's most successful candidate with 1 percent of the national vote

EdEnlightenU

We are promoting a new way of approaching politics

idk18

The socialists were a "successful" third party at the beginning of the 20th century, before the first red scare

their best presidential campaign got 6% of the popular vote

but socialism as a political ideology was much stronger

and exercised its influence primarily through labor unions

political movements just about always manifest themselves first outside the party system through various interest groups

EdEnlightenU

If you are against forming a political party, why did you join the Futurist Party subreddit?

Xenophon1

http: // en. wikipedia . org / wiki / History_of_the_United_States_Democratic_Party

kitzibot

[ History of the United States Democratic Party - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ] - en. wikipedia . org

idk18

EdEnlightenU: because I do believe the political discourse needs to be changed to recognize the threat that constantly changing technology represents to our social fabric

and the Futurist Party looked like an attempt to address that concern

Houshalter

well if everyone skeptical left, you'd just be a bunch of overly optimistic people reinforcing your own optimism

EdEnlightenU

Do you think the people who come to these IRC meetings would continue if it was a think tank rather than the Futurist Party?

Jet would you have come if it was a think tank?

idk18

do I care?

I'm not sure

EdEnlightenU

Who would be the think tank

Houshalter

isn't there already a think tank

idk18

In my experience, most of the people who get caught up in IRC excitement disappear after a week or two

EdEnlightenU

Have you considered getting involved with an already existing think tank that is doing the things you are talking about?

Xenophon1

Skepticism is critical. But there is a dichotomy between support and opposition

EdEnlightenU

Wouldn't it be much more effort to start an entirely new think tank if they already exist?

The Futurist Party doesn't exisit

It is new

[ ChanServ ]

Foundership transfer from idk18 to Xenophon1 forced by Snoonet administration.

idk18

: )

You make good points

BipolarBear0

!fflags idk18 -*

[ ChanServ ]

BipolarBear0 forced flags change -AORfhiorstv on idk18.

idk18

I'm going to leave you guys to it

I hope I introduced useful processes for IRC management

best of luck to you all in this endeavor, I hope you succeed!

Xenophon1

from my experience, I have come from a Think-Tank. I have been loosely involved as a volunteer with non -profits and foundations ever since I worked with MIRI. I believe that many of them, from this future -centric culture I experienced at the Singularity Summit and Singularity University, suffer a similar illness.

This common illness is a distinct impotence. There is no unified banner. No widespread social momentum.

The holders of real seats in congress are wary to adopt the opinions of these groups . They work with them, they sidestep them. If they want to find themselves in another term, they holders of these places of power must court the multiplicity of opinions and goals.

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Xenophon1

I think that alongside schenbergs steps he have carefully outlined, there is no mutual exclusiveness to an effective third party

believe a third party could not only represent all these initiatives but unite them and guide them with a single banner, a single logo, a single idea

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Xenophon1

If we launch a third party, we could achieve the institutionalization of this singular idea. The same as the Green Party represents a national institutionalization of sustainability, we might cement a national institutionalization of forward thinking and long -term solutions.

BipolarBear0

Do you want to represent an ideal, or do you want to accomplish an ideal

Xenophon1

We do not know what the future holds.

BipolarBear0

Because the Green Party sure as hell represents an ideal, but they haven't accomplished anything

Xenophon1

Agreed.

I vote to adjourn this meeting. 7.05

EdEnlightenU

ok

EdEnlightenU

I have some family over having a bofire

I'll catch up with you guys soon

Xenophon1