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You know Peter Tatchell. He’s the man that has consistently campaigned for LGBT rights since the 1980s. He has attempted a citizen’s arrest on Robert Mugabe. He is a key figure of the radical gay-rights non-violent direct action group OutRage! He is someone that even the Daily Mail recognises as ‘an example to us all.’

But what about the Peter Tatchell that is a fan of Tinie Tempah and ‘loves’ Chris Brown’s music? Or the Peter Tatchell that partied at Heaven in the 80s? We don’t hear much about him. I sat down to find out more about the man that listens to Whitney Houston and considers both Madonna and Britney to be in his ‘good books.’



We also discussed how he believed Whitney was having a relationship with her best friend Robyn, the times he has feared for his life and how he wouldn’t be surprised if Louis Smith eventually came out.





LINKS

www.petertatchell.net

https://www.facebook.com/PeterTatchell

https://twitter.com/PeterTatchell



Peter, you’ve accomplished so much already and been in some pretty precarious situations. What has been the scariest moment of your life so far?

Well there have been two. One was being beaten by Robert Mugabe’s bodyguards in Brussels in 2001. The second was being badly beaten by neo-nazis in Moscow in 2007. During both attacks I thought ‘Am I going to make it out alive?’ It was terrifying. Those two attacks have left me with minor brain and eye injuries. I have got problems with my co-ordination, balance, concentration and memory. Plus the sight in my right eye has been quite severely damaged. It doesn’t stop me campaigning or living my life but I am slower. It’s more of a struggle than it used to be. But I count myself lucky compared to LGBT activists in Iran, Russia or Zimbabwe. They are at risk of being arrested, tortured, jailed and perhaps even killed.



What did you make of recent plans for anti-gay Islamic preacher, Abu Usamah at-Thahabi, to talk to students at Reading University?

Universities are supposed to be places of enlightenment. It’s outrageous that Reading University was prepared to host a preacher who justified the killing of gay people. I’ll defend the right of people to oppose and disagree with homosexuality but not incite violence.

That is an abuse of freedom of speech and a step too far. Free speech depends upon open debate and threats of violence close that down because the victims feel intimidated for fear of retribution.

Some countries that arrest and torture gay men and women have had their government elected by a democratic election. Do you think it’s still right for us to intervene?

I’m opposed to Western intervention. That just smacks of neo-colonialism and will only bring down more hatred on LGBT communities. To my mind when there are serious abuses of LGBT rights in countries like Iran and Uganda, the best strategy is to support defenders in those countries.

These countries have all signed the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. It guarantees equal treatment and non-discrimination to everyone without exception. This includes LGBT people. So the International Community, not just the Western Nations, should insist that these countries honour the Declaration they have signed and pledged to uphold.

Have you ever had to rethink your actions and back down?

I am always questioning what I do, how I am doing it and why. There have been plenty of occasions when I have changed my views in light of evidence put to me by others.

Initially I never supported the idea of using the word ‘queer’, but eventually I was persuaded that the word should, and could, be reclaimed.

I used to oppose ‘outing’ in all circumstances but having heard counter arguments, I concluded that ‘outing’ homophobes and hypocrites is morally justified.

Twenty years ago I argued that homosexuality and bi-sexuality were largely cultural constructs and that everyone is born with the potential to be bi-sexual. Nowadays in light of new scientific evidence I think it is clear that biological factors play a larger role than I had previously acknowledged.





Are people in the Public Eye entitled to privacy regarding their sexuality?

When I was growing up as a teenager in the 1960s there wasn’t a single public figure that was openly gay. It sent a message to straight people that we were cowards, it reinforced the idea that being gay was shameful and promoted a victim mentality.

To me there is a moral imperative for every LGBT person to be ‘out’ and proud. Not declaring your sexuality is tantamount to collusion with the idea that it should be kept hidden. That may not be a closeted person’s intention but that is the effect and consequence.

Of course it’s up to people to decide for themselves when they feel the time is right to ‘come out’, but it’s not something that anyone should postpone forever. The only exception is that of public figures who attack the LGBT community while themselves being gay. That’s homophobia and hypocrisy. It should be exposed. Two faced bigots should be ‘outed’. If we don’t ‘out’ them we are colluding with their homophobia and the harm they are causing other people. That’s not a morally justifiable choice.

‘Coming out’ is probably the single most important and powerful thing that any individual can do. Research shows that straight people, who know a gay person, are much more likely to support gay equality. It can really help break down prejudice and build support for equal rights.

Everyone seems eager to ‘out’ Tom Daley. Do you think that is a form of bullying?

None of us know his sexuality so whether he should ‘come out’ or not is a purely hypothetical question. If he is gay, obviously it would be great if he ‘came out’ but at this young age I am not going to damn him if he doesn’t. Big name stars are under all the normal pressures of coming out, just like everyone else, as well as the fame related issues like dealing with peers, fans and their sponsors.

Louis Smith recently said ‘I’m a bit of a gay icon. As long as gay people can see the line, and that I fancy women, that’s fine. I don’t want to be put in a difficult, uncomfortable situation.’

Yes, it did have a whiff of homophobia but I wouldn’t read too much into it. It may just have been lack of experience. I think he sets off quite a lot of gaydar, although maybe that is wish fulfilment But I wouldn’t be surprised if eventually he ‘comes out.’





Talking of sports stars, what did you make of newly-retired footballer Robbie Rogers’ recent ‘coming out’?

I felt quite anxious. On one hand it’s good that he ‘came out’ but then he also seemed to be saying you can’t be gay and a current player. That just reinforces homophobia in the game. His ‘coming out’ would have been much more powerful before his retirement, even if he had done it in the last few games.

You knew Justin Fashanu, didn’t you? (Fashanu was one of the first openly gay footballers, coming out in 1990, before committing suicide in 1998).

I was best friends with him in the 1980s. We met in Heaven. I was 29. He was 21. Did we date? That’s one for my autobiography. [Laughs] He was transferred to Nottingham Forest and then subjected to homophobic abuse by the manager Brian Clough which contributed to the downward spiral of his career. Justin wasn’t ‘out’ but he wanted to be. He was terrified to take the big leap. I mean in 1982 he compered a black entertainment event at a big London nightclub and had me on his table in front of all the media and paparazzi. He took me to parties with other footballers and other family members. No one twigged. I was amazed.

That answers my question about dating then…

Not quite. [Laughs]

Are you seeing anyone at the moment?

No. Has my personal life been sacrificed by my politics? Yes. I’ve had five major relationships which have been very wonderful and fulfilling. I love the Human Rights work that I do. It gives me enormous happiness and fulfillment. I can see how my efforts have contributed to changing peoples lives for the better. That’s an incredible spur to further activism. For most of my 46 years of Human Rights Activism I’ve not been paid so the personal sacrifices have been very high. I work around 80 hours a week, pretty much seven days a week.

For the last 35 years I have been stuck in this tiny one bedroom council flat with no space to fling a cat. This is a home and a campaign office. It’s full of clutter which is mental torture for someone like me who is a minimalist.



Do you ever see things slowing down to a point where you could have a relationship?

Dream on! I wish I could get some decent funding for my Peter Tatchell Foundation so I could employ staff to do my campaigning more effectively. It could also give me an occasional night off and the option of taking a nice holiday once a year. But for some reason that just hasn’t happened.

We’re getting some donations but not what you’d expect given my long and successful campaigning record. I find it quite frustrating and disappointing. I’m conscious of my limitations and shortcomings but I do think that over the last four-plus decades I have made a pretty significant contribution to LGBT rights in Britain and quite a few countries around the world, so it’s surprising that I have not got more substantial funding. I think a lot of people presume ‘Oh, he’s so well known, and does so many things, he must be well funded.’ Not at all.



I see a Whitney Houston LP on your desk. Are you a fan?

Yes. I actually met Whitney and Robyn Crawford when they came to the ‘Reach Out and Touch’ HIV/AIDS Foundation vigil in Trafalgar Square in 1991. I personally believe they were having a relationship at the time, but precisely what Whitney’s sexuality was is another issue. The body language and vibe between the women was like two young teenage sweethearts. It was beautiful. Very touching. I even caught them in an embrace. They were slightly unnerved but I think they thought they could trust me.

They were generally subtle about their relationship but Whitney could be a lot more explicit. On the cover of her Whitney Houston (1985) album cover she writes, ‘I love you Robyn. I love you and I guess all you need to do is stay in my life. ‘ Now I am open to another interpretation but I think it is pretty clear what she is trying to say.

There’s no doubt in my mind that under pressure from the family and church, Whitney was persuaded to ditch Robyn. She ended up marrying Bobby Brown and her whole life went downhill afterwards. The drink and drugs got out of control - a classic pattern of someone in an unhappy dysfunctional relationship. If she had stayed with Robyn she would still be at the Acme of pop diva-dom.



Do you think it is ok to publicly discuss someone’s sexuality after they have died?

Being honest and truthful about someone’s sexuality is not a bad or immoral thing. Otherwise we would still be denying the sexuality of Michelangelo, Peter Tchaikovsky and thousands more.



Rihanna and Chris Brown seem to be the new Whitney and Bobby…

For what he did to Rihanna, Chris Brown should have gone to prison. He only got off because he is a celebrity. I love his music, he’s a brilliant dancer but he is truly an obnoxious person. The alleged attack on Frank Ocean is just another example of his macho-violence streak. I am quite astonished that Rihanna is back with him. He keeps coming out with blatantly misogynistic comments.





Did you see Elton John hugging him at his Oscars party?

Yes, Elton is probably trying to help him personally, but also get him onside for LGBT rights, like he did with Eminem. Whether it will work I am not sure. After Eminem duetted with Elton, he did cool his homophobia, but I do think that is equally due to the pressure myself and OutRage! put on him where we ambushed him at concerts and exposed his homophobia.



Hip Hop has always been the last bastion of homophobia but things seem to be changing thanks to Frank Ocean and openly-gay new artists like Zebra Katz, Mikky Blanko, Nicky Da B.

Yes, but I’m surprised it has taken so long. It’s great that Frank Ocean has ‘come out’ and it obviously hasn’t harmed his career. But what about all the other big hip-hop names who are still firmly in the closet? I’d like to think that an ‘out’ gay rap artist would help move the lyrics and imagery away from the nihilistic ‘bling’ macho culture that disfigures so much of hip-hop. It almost goes with the musical territory that you have to be a womanising, butch, straight, man.

Although I’m a big fan of Tinie Tempah but I do wish he was occasionally more political. He actually tried to date the sister of my neighbour upstairs a few years ago. She turned him down for being a bit of a rough neck.

There seems to be a trend amongst female pop stars to say they are bi-sexual.

I think it is often deemed more acceptable for a pop star to say they are bi-sexual than to say they are gay or lesbian. Some think that saying they are bi-sexual will keep everyone happy. It can be a cop-out.

What do you make of straight stars who court the gay market?

My approach is always to see the best in people. I don’t think you should make any assumptions unless you have evidence. I’ve heard many allegations that people like Madonna and Lady Gaga have milked the gay community for self publicity but I don’t see any clear evidence of that. Both those artists have done a huge amount for the Womens Movement and LGBT Rights. They are in my good books.