MSNBC host Chris Matthews went against left-wing Salon editor Joan Walsh Tuesday, telling her she “must be living in a crazy world” to think that just because the U.S. has halted torture, that al-Qaida will do the same.

Matthews made the comments to the Salon editor (not to confuse anyone with @Salondotcom) on “Hardball,” with former Republican National Committee chairman Michael Steele appearing on the show as well.

“Do you really think that’s not happening right now despite this report?” Steele questioned. “Do you really believe that because Barack Obama, or our government says, or Sen. Feinstein says, we don’t do this anymore? Come on.”

“I’m so much in the middle of this one. I like the values of Joan,” said a hedging Matthews. “But if anybody thinks us not torturing people is going to stop al-Qaida from torturing people, you’re living in a crazy world. They don’t look at the Geneva Convention…”

“Look, we tortured, and still have al-Qaida,” added Walsh, the author of “What’s The Matter With White People?” “We tortured, and we have ISIS. We tortured and we didn’t stop the resurgence of this form of fanatic and violent Islam. So torture didn’t work either. It didn’t work on many levels.”