Former Baltimore Ravens coach and Super Bowl champion Brian Billick spiced up the NFL Network’s Sunday morning coverage with a surprisingly hot take about NFL kickers. According to Billick, kickers are “not football players” despite taking up a place on NFL rosters.

Seahawks punter Jon Ryan had a perfect response for Billick, who played as a tight end in college but never played in an NFL game.

Flawless victory, Jon Ryan wins.

Kickers may not be in the trenches every play doing whatever Billick expects of “football players,” but an argument can be made that a team’s kicker is one of its most important skill position players, especially in 2015. 15 NFL teams have missed extra points this season through four games under the new format, while just eight extra points were missed all of last season. Only 12 kickers have made 100 percent of their field goals this season. Eagles coach Chip Kelly even believes his team could be atop the NFC East if they had a better kicker.