The consumer advocates against the credit card industry is really David vs. Goliath. We're David, with our little bag of rocks, and Goliath is crushing and influence peddling. They're massively powerful compared to the few consumer advocates. And not only the credit card companies, we've [also] got to look at the banks who are ripping people off by charging them bounced-check fees; we've got to look at the rent-to-own stores, the mortgage scams and everything else. So the credit card companies are only one of the industries that a very small number of consumer groups try to fend off on a daily basis. And again, none of the consumer groups make any political influence peddling through political contributions, so we've got one hand tied behind our backs to start with.

Credit card companies have power over the entire Congress. Absolutely. The banking committees are usually dominated by members from the states where the credit card companies and the other banks do business. ...

And this is all throughout Congress? It's not like the Democrats or the Republicans are in favor with the credit card industry?

So essentially the Congress and the courts took away the right of the states to do anything about the credit card industry years ago. We've got the credit card companies saying Congress shouldn't do anything, and they inoculate themselves against that with a massive lobbying push. When we have a hearing on any issue in Congress, the credit card companies fill the room. The consumer advocates -- less than five of us usually at any hearing. …

Congress has been afraid to deal with any kind of bad credit card company practices for years. Three years ago, they held a hearing on credit card practices, but they did nothing. Since then, Congress hasn't done anything about credit card companies' unfair practices because the credit card companies have enormous power and sway with the Congress. There are lobbyists for each of the big credit card companies. Then there are lobbyists for the bank associations. And the bank associations and the credit card companies have political action committees. They made soft money donations when they were legal, and they also have a large lobbying budget.

The credit cards companies [and] the banking industry have a very powerful presence in Washington. Can you tell me what kind of influence they have?

The consumer program director of the U.S. Public Interest Research Group (U.S. PIRG), Mierzwinski has authored many reports on credit cards and credit reporting. Here, he talks about the 10 banks that dominate the credit card industry, the power of its lobby in Washington, why the industry doesn't want the states to have any regulatory power, and the different bills the industry has helped kill over the years that would have protected consumers from unfair practices. He also discusses how the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency -- the agency charged with overseeing some of the biggest credit card banks -- has failed to protect consumers. "I don't see any advertising by the OCC to consumers," he says. "I don't see any aggressive attempt by the OCC to do outreach to consumers. When have they last been on television saying, 'We want to hear from you if your bank has misled you or deceived you?'" This interview was conducted on Oct. 17, 2004.