" I_NO



This is coming from a person with every legacy piece in the game. If your going to nerf a fucking item NERF everything don't fucking target one item or two. That's fucking stupid lolThis is coming from a person with every legacy piece in the game.

They definitely would if they could have, trust me. They definitely would if they could have, trust me. "Danger is like jello, there's always room for more."

http://www.twitch.tv/vejita00 Posted by

CliveHowlitzer

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" CliveHowlitzer " I_NO



This is coming from a person with every legacy piece in the game. If your going to nerf a fucking item NERF everything don't fucking target one item or two. That's fucking stupid lolThis is coming from a person with every legacy piece in the game.

They definitely would if they could have, trust me. They definitely would if they could have, trust me.



Then this is a problem created from their own technical shortcomings and lack of judgment. Nobody quits an ARPG because an item is OP, in fact they grind harder to attain it. But they do quit when nerfs adversely affect their characters. Then this is a problem created from their own technical shortcomings and lack of judgment. Nobody quits an ARPG because an item is OP, in fact they grind harder to attain it. But they do quit when nerfs adversely affect their characters. Posted by

realmoney

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" realmoney " CliveHowlitzer " I_NO



This is coming from a person with every legacy piece in the game. If your going to nerf a fucking item NERF everything don't fucking target one item or two. That's fucking stupid lolThis is coming from a person with every legacy piece in the game.

They definitely would if they could have, trust me. They definitely would if they could have, trust me.



Then this is a problem created from their own technical shortcomings and lack of judgment. Nobody quits an ARPG because an item is OP, in fact they grind harder to attain it. But they do quit when nerfs adversely affect their characters. Then this is a problem created from their own technical shortcomings and lack of judgment. Nobody quits an ARPG because an item is OP, in fact they grind harder to attain it. But they do quit when nerfs adversely affect their characters.

Actually, I find that if items trivialize content, I am more likely to quit a game than one with a solid balance. Perhaps I am the minority.



Actually, I find that if items trivialize content, I am more likely to quit a game than one with a solid balance. Perhaps I am the minority. "Danger is like jello, there's always room for more."

http://www.twitch.tv/vejita00 Posted by

CliveHowlitzer

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Well, while I agree that trivializing all content from start to finish would make people quit, I do not think that finally owning that one OP character/build would, atleast not if it takes a loong grind to get it. In my opinion, in an ARPG, you SHOULD become overpowered after putting in long hours (PvE!). On the other hand, destroying something people have worked hard for naturally enrages them.



I'll just give the example of what happened to me in D3: I farmed a loooooooong time to finally get that one Uberitem to drop for my Whirlwind-Barbarian, Mempo of Twilight with Crit. Everything on that character fell into place, I was finally able to do the hardest content. I did not quit, but used that char to farm and finance other characters. try out new things, etc... I was so happy. Then along came Reaper of Souls, my hard worked for, beloved build nerfed to the ground, into oblivion and beyond, destroyed. ->quit D3 and came here.



While I cannot comment on the CoE nerf (do not own until now), I want to point out that nerfing for the sake of balance is something, while regrettably neccessary sometimes, that needs to be handled delicately. It's a touchy subject for the reasons stated above.



If my post contains typos, blame my phone and my fat fingers. Posted by

medder666

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" CliveHowlitzer " realmoney " Aim_Deep



Agree I don't even own one - retroactively nerfing is some serious bull. Especially when other legacies like Kaoms etc are still rollin' in Standard and Hardcore perma leagues. It's a double standard. It's nixing a players investment. Just bad mojo.



I agree, if they nerf all the legacy items to their current forms, but singling out COE like this is just unfair to the people who invested in one. I dumped so many good items trying to accumulate exalts to purchase items for a reasonable COE build, hours of trading, months of grinding, only to have my goals disappear. I really do like this game, but I can't agree with this route they're taking on this item. It really is a shame and double standard. I agree, if they nerf all the legacy items to their current forms, but singling out COE like this is just unfair to the people who invested in one. I dumped so many good items trying to accumulate exalts to purchase items for a reasonable COE build, hours of trading, months of grinding, only to have my goals disappear. I really do like this game, but I can't agree with this route they're taking on this item. It really is a shame and double standard.

They aren't singling it out. They've stated before that the reason behind not retroactively nerfing most uniques is because of technical issues with changes to uniques that have a numerical range.



In this case, it isn't that. It is merely changing the way the mechanic on the unique item works. This can be uniformly applied to all uniques. This isn't the first time they've done this to a unique item and changed others retroactively.



If they could do that with ALL changes easily, they would. Legacies are there for technical reasons, not for some aesthetic choice just to piss people off. In this case, they could avoid creating a legacy version, so they did.



To top it all off, the item in question is still very strong after the fact. It isn't like it was nerfed into uselessness. They aren't singling it out. They've stated before that the reason behind not retroactively nerfing most uniques is because of technical issues with changes to uniques that have a numerical range.In this case, it isn't that. It is merely changing the way the mechanic on the unique item works. This can be uniformly applied to all uniques. This isn't the first time they've done this to a unique item and changed others retroactively.If they could do that with ALL changes easily, they would. Legacies are there for technical reasons, not for some aesthetic choice just to piss people off. In this case, they could avoid creating a legacy version, so they did.To top it all off, the item in question is still very strong after the fact. It isn't like it was nerfed into uselessness.



They could change the numerical values easy on the other OP legacies just like they knocked granite flasks from 4000 to 3000 despite thousands out there, they just don't want to.



Making legacy Kaoms 500 life would be same thing as granite change.



And who cares if it's not useless, you're still not getting what you paid for with blood sweat and tears. That aint right. No one likes bait and switch. They could change the numerical values easy on the other OP legacies just like they knocked granite flasks from 4000 to 3000 despite thousands out there, they just don't want to.Making legacy Kaoms 500 life would be same thing as granite change.And who cares if it's not useless, you're still not getting what you paid for with blood sweat and tears. That aint right. No one likes bait and switch. What happened to the "Don't tread on me" Americans?



It’s easier to fool the masses than to convince them that they are being fooled. -Mark Twain



Give a fish they'll steal a whale. Teach to fish and they'll eat forever. Last edited by Aim_Deep on Aug 11, 2014, 8:55:41 AM Posted by

Aim_Deep

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if CoE had became a legacy like usual instead of this, i bet our lovely OP would be spamming his CoE (like the rest of the manics in scrubcore global) all over the forums. Posted by

Deleted

on Banned on

" if CoE had became a legacy like usual instead of this, i bet our lovely OP would be spamming his CoE (like the rest of the manics in scrubcore global) all over the forums.



Fuck I would the fuck I boast my legacy items and fucking make people mad that's how I am but this is fucking stupid right here.



Once more if your going to nerf something YOU NERF IT ALL you don't fucking nerf one single item and don't touch others.



Fuck I would the fuck I boast my legacy items and fucking make people mad that's how I am but this is fucking stupid right here.Once more if your going to nerf something YOU NERF IT ALL you don't fucking nerf one single item and don't touch others. IGN: I_NO Posted by

I_NO

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" Aim_Deep



Making legacy Kaoms 500 life would be same thing as granite change. They could change the numerical values easy on the other OP legacies just like they knocked granite flasks from 4000 to 3000 despite thousands out there, they just don't want to.Making legacy Kaoms 500 life would be same thing as granite change. No, it would not. The granite change was to the base item type. All such changes necessarily change all items of that type.

Changing Kaoms would be a change to the value of a specific mod on the item. This requires doing an item migration with a custom script, resulting in massive downtime while migrating every item on the realm.

The equivalent of the Granite change for Kaoms would be changing the base armour of Glorious Plates (which we could do, and would affect existing ones). Changing the value or a rolled mod is entirely different.



The base value of the Granite Flask type, like the base value of the armour rating on Glorious Plates, is stored in a lookup table which all items of that type point to, rather than all that data being duplicated by separately storing that information in each item of the type. Thus changing that data would only be a change in one place, and would always affect all items of the type.



By contrast, the value of the rolled unique mod on Kaom's Heart is stored in the specific item it was rolled on, like all other rolled mods. Because mods by their nature must support the ability for two instances to have different values. Thus changing this requires changing it separately on each item changed, and won't affect other items.



With Crown of Eyes, we did not change the value of a mod (which would have made old ones legacy), we changed the mechanic it uses to work differently - we effectively changed the game mechanic the item uses, not the item itself. Each item stores the mod it has, and it's value, neither of which changed. What that mod causes to happen changes, and that of course isn't something stored separately in each item, but in code that modifies calculations. This isn't the first time this has happened (Volls comes to mind), and it may not be the last. No, it would not. The granite change was to the base item type. All such changes necessarily change all items of that type.Changing Kaoms would be a change to the value of a specific mod on the item. This requires doing an item migration with a custom script, resulting in massive downtime while migrating every item on the realm.The equivalent of the Granite change for Kaoms would be changing the base armour of Glorious Plates (which we could do, and would affect existing ones). Changing the value or a rolled mod is entirely different.The base value of the Granite Flask type, like the base value of the armour rating on Glorious Plates, is stored in a lookup table which all items of that type point to, rather than all that data being duplicated by separately storing that information in each item of the type. Thus changing that data would only be a change in one place, and would always affect all items of the type.By contrast, the value of the rolled unique mod on Kaom's Heart is stored in the specific item it was rolled on, like all other rolled mods. Because mods by their nature must support the ability for two instances to have different values. Thus changing this requires changing it separately on each item changed, and won't affect other items.With Crown of Eyes, we did not change the value of a mod (which would have made old ones legacy), we changed the mechanic it uses to work differently - we effectively changed the game mechanic the item uses, not the item itself. Each item stores the mod it has, and it's value, neither of which changed. What that mod causes to happen changes, and that of course isn't something stored separately in each item, but in code that modifies calculations. This isn't the first time this has happened (Volls comes to mind), and it may not be the last. Last edited by Mark_GGG on Aug 11, 2014, 10:07:22 AM Posted by

Mark_GGG

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There are many ways in how an item can be directly or indirectly nerfed. Changing a numeric mod on the item (and then making the original version legacy) is only one of them. Although everyone expected to see a CoE nerf, they shouldn't have expected it to be 100% guaranteed legacy as "becoming legacy" is the ouput of only one way to nerf items.



EDIT : what Mark said. IGN : @Morgoth Last edited by Morgoth2356 on Aug 11, 2014, 9:49:29 AM Posted by

Morgoth2356

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