Post by oatnet » Apr 26 2017 5:19pm

I mean seriously, a freeway capable EV for as little as $5k... I accumulated information in my search that might help others following down the same path.





500e buying guide



From 2013 through 2017, the Fiat 500e is the exact same car, same motor/battery/suspension etc. The only difference is some minor tweaks to the cockpit:



2014 adds an armrest to the passenger seat.

2015 changes the layout of the front cupholders, and moves the stereo's USB and Aux connections from the glovebox to the passenger's side of the cupholders. A charge-only USB is added to the glovebox. I thought I wanted this, but the new cupholders are too small, and I'd rather the stereo connections were still in the glovebox so I could leave a phone there as my audio source.

2016 replaces the external Tom-Tom Navigation with a built-in dash unit.



Since all years of the car are identical, you will be choosing between milage, condition, and colors. The first choice you have to make is the interior color, white or black. Both colors have the same orange stripes on the seat and steering wheel. Note that Orange-colored cars only come with white interiors. (EDIT-Nope I was wrong, the orange also comes with a black interior, but all the exterior bits {mirror,spoiler,aero} are the same as the white interior)



White interior - the seats, steering wheel, center stack and dash panel are white, but the headrests are orange. The door inserts are white with the armrest in orange. However, the dash, floors, trunk, and headliner are all black. Externally, the aero inserts in the front and rear bumpers are white, and the spoiler over the rear hatch is white, and the mirror covers are white.



Unfortunately, the white interior does not age well. Leather bits, like the steering wheel, get orange and blotchy. The seats pick up a dark shadow of dirt, that gets especially spotty/blotchy when wet. The white interior trim yellows in the sun, like an 80's computer case. I really liked the white exterior with white interior, but after seeing a few harder-used examples of white interiors, I avoided it.



Everything in a black interior is black. The dash panel is body-colored on silver, white, Luce blu, and granite, but black for everything else (Celeste blu, Nero). Externally, the aero on the front and rear bumpers is black, and both the mirror covers and the spoiler over the rear window are the same color as the body (which I strongly prefer to the contrasting white ones). You can tell whether the interior is white or black by looking at the bumpers, mirrors, and spoiler.





Options:



The "E-Sport" appearance package, 1 of 2 options, is only available with the black interior. This package gives you orange stripes along the sides, orange mirror covers, blacked-out headlights/turn signals, and blacked out rims. The inserts in the holes of the wheel rims are trimmed with matching orange, but they lack the "tabs" found on the regular 500e version. These tabs mostly fill the holes in order to prevent air from getting sucked underneath the car by the wheels, which decreases the efficiency of the carefully designed airflow under the car by some minuscule amount.





The other option is a sunroof, which decreases headroom by an inch and a half or so. Most tall people fit regardless, the driver's seat has a lever on the left side that jacks the height up or down, but the tallest may want to try before choosing this feature.



The sunroof adds expense/weight, and locates its mass at the highest point of the vehicle where it could induce the most possible body roll. I think the plain metal roof makes the chassis more rigid and the sunroof makes it weaker while adding drag. Besides I like to have the driver's seat jacked up as high as possible for the best view of the road, so I value that extra headroom.



Color



There are a whole lot of black, orange and white cars, and almost as many granite. Silver and blues and gray are rare, you will pay more for them.



Billet Argento (Silver) hides swirlies and dirt, high stealth, rare

Bianca Perla (White) hides swirlies, mostly hides dirt, stealth, many of them

Granito Lucente (Granite pearl) hides 95% swirlies and dirt, high stealth, many of them

E-sport's black headlights look good on this color, and orange stripe looks good

note - observed scratches under door handles on all granite ones

Celeste Blu (1950's light blue) shows dings/swirlies, mostly hides dirt, no stealth, rare

Nero Black shows dings/swirlies, hides dirt a little, high stealth, many of them

Arancio Ellecttrico (Electric Orange) shows dings/swirlies, mostly hides dirt, no stealth, many of them, only comes with white interior.



Other colors

(2015) Luce Blue (silver blue)hides swirlies and dirt, high stealth, rarest

(2016) Grigio Cenre (Gray) shows dings/swirlies, mostly hides dirt, stealth, rare

(2017) Rhino (looks black to me)





Warrantee



The 500e has 2 warrantees. The battery warrantee is 8 years/100k - so the cars coming off a 3 year/36k lease typically have 5 years and 75k of battery warrantee left. However, the rest of the car is only warranted for 4 years/50k; after a three year lease and time in the return/wholesale auction process, most of these cars only have 6 to 11 months of warrantee left. This is long enough to give the car a good trial period to sort out any problems and get TSB's resolved, and thereafter you depend on the notion that electronics generally keep working. Note that some 2015's came off a short 2-year lease special, giving you an extra year.



Mileage



Most of these come off lease between 20k-25k, although there are many examples higher and lower. I've seen pristine high-mileage cars, and trashed low-mileage cars, so condition is more important than miles.



I think a high mileage 500e can be good buy - owners of high-mileage 500e's are not noticing loss in range, and the 100k battery warrantee is reassuring. I even prefer the high mileage cars because it show that they were a reliable daily driver that got used a lot. While most of these are really good, we know that some were really bad, so I am suspicious of low mileage ones - did the PO not use it because they couldn't depend on it? I just wanted the mileage low enough that the base warrantee would expire at the end of 4 years, not because I passed 50k.





Lease vs own



With lease deals of $0 down and $49-$69/month, this car is ridiculously cheap to lease. The lease hassle factor is high - many people had problems finding dealers that would let them return their leases. The back-end costs can add up too - a surprise $395 "destination charge" for turning it in, penalties for dings and worn tires and tinting etc. Although they are selling for $4k-$5k wholesale, the residual value on these leases is very high - over $20,000. If the car is seized, or has a wreck that your insurance won't cover (you were drinking or something), then you are on the hook for a lot of money.



They are also ridiculously cheap to buy, somewhere between $6,200 and $8,500 for a good example. I saw one with 49,400 miles go for $4,700 from a dealer (right before I looked at it), and a lot have sold on eBay for $5400-$6300. "Frontline_remarketing" bought over a 100 of these cars last October, and has been selling them on eBay for cheap, actually pulling market prices down. Those cars have been sitting uncharged for a long time, and their condition varies. I don't like that the detailed pictures in his listings are often from cars he has already sold, so you don't see the actual car until after you have paid a non-refundable $250 deposit. I also don't like that he makes extensive use of shill bidders to drive his $1,000 no-reserve price up. Another eBay seller is EV_rides, a nice, informed guy with decent cars, but he values his cars higher than I did. I did most of my shopping on cars.com, there were 145 listed when I started, and 190+ when I last checked, so inventory is increasing. Sadly, many of these are offered by used car lots that sell to to people with credit problems who can't buy from a regular car dealer, so they are generally snotty and abusive and only interested if they feel you are trapped. I had a salesman walk away when he found out I was paying cash, another said the car would cost $500 more if I paid cash.



Leasing requires full insurance ($1100/year) but you can skip the collision rider if you own it ($375/yr), making leasing and owning cost the same amount. Leasing will give you a new, fully warranteed and fully insured car for three years. Owning means you can have it for more than 3 years, tinker with it as much as you like, and not worry about milage, door dings, seizures, or lease returns.



Accidents



I saw a few cars with clean carfaxes that I could tell had been in accidents. The factory striped the bolts on the front crossmember, which has to be removed to work on the front end, so if those stripes are missing you have to wonder why. Be suspicious of any car that was returned before the natural end of a lease unless it has more miles than the lease allows (12k/yr, so 24k for a 2-year and 36k for a 3-year)





Notes

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The 12v system is run from a large lead-acid 12v battery under the hood, which is charged by the high-voltage system. Reportedly this battery does not handle a deep discharge well, and the car does odd things when the voltage is low.



The car must shutdown completely before you connect the charger, or the charge will not actually start. This can also drain down the 12v battery, causing odd behaviors



Many people have had problems with the glovebox USB port, dealers suggest this is a problem with the USB drive vibrating and losing connection. 32gb is the largest USB drive I saw used.



Space behind passenger seat for tiny subwoofer filled with blank panel



HV pack disconnect is under rear seat middle, below protective cap



The car is equipped with a free Cellular mobile link, but it expires 3 years after the car is sold, and can never be renewed. There is an app you can use, not sure how it works out.



500e<2016, You can Bluetooth your phone for hands free, but have to USB for playlists. When I plug in my iPhone with USB, the car picks up whatever song/album/playlist was cued up. The steering wheel buttons work to track forward/track backward.



I am learning to not spin the tires on launch, but it is a challenge. Tires wear fast, especially fronts. Factory 185/55-15's, going to try 205/50-15's in sticker rubber to see if that reduces tire spin at launch for faster times. I'll lose range/efficiency, but that is not s problem for my duty cycle.



Does OK in crash tests and rollover roof tests. While it does wheel in head-on and partial overlap tests, it did not do well in the small overlap test. However most cars did poorly on this test, and the 500 showed less intrusion to the cabin than most. Driver/front passenger did OK in side impact due to airbag in seats, but rear passenger does not have this airbag and did not do well.



Off the charger, the GOM (guess-I-meter) estimates range based on how you drive the last 100 miles. After 10 miles, it estimates based on how you drove the last 10 miles. Turning on the ac or heat will drop estimated range 10 miles on a fresh charge, and this is reflected in the real world. People see shorter range and estimates in cold weather. The battery may discharge a little after full charge, to drive the heating/cooling system for the pack; this effect is heightened outside.



Jerky Torque steer, could be electric power steering or ESC too.



Early cars had TSB for non-watertight enclosure that actually replaced the inverter

Early cars had a recall for loose CV joint bolts

Early cars had chargers replaced a few times

Several TSBs to reprogram inverter and new software (parking pawl etc)

Some reports of keys getting stuck - special procedure to release them

Current TSB for purge valves on HV pack



A few reports of charging stations damaging chargers



Fiat "studios" closing has left people without service options or places to return their leases. Limited technicians - places who have it, might have 1 person with skills. Fiat refused to support these cars outside of California and Oregon, but that might be changing.



Bosch supplied the entire drivetrain/power system - tranny, motor, inverter, battery, and lots of sensory stuff. Probably why fiat claims this car costs them 14k more to make than the 32k msrp.



Unusual door locks - press the door handle inwards to lock - this is the opposite direction you would pull in to open the door.



Window switches are on the center console