What’s Happening to Boys?

Post by crisis mode on Mar 30, 2006, 11:50pm

What’s Happening to Boys?

Young Women These Days Are Driven — but Guys Lack Direction

By Leonard Sax

Friday, March 31, 2006

The romantic comedy “Failure to Launch,” which opened as the No. 1 movie in the nation this month, has substantially exceeded pre-launch predictions, taking in more than $64 million in its first three weeks.

Matthew McConaughey plays a young man who is affable, intelligent, good-looking — and completely unmotivated. He’s still living at home and seems to have no ambitions beyond playing video games, hanging out with his buddies (two young men who are also still living with their parents) and having sex. In desperation, his parents hire a professional motivation consultant, played by Sarah Jessica Parker, who pretends to fall in love with McConaughey’s character in the hope that a romantic relationship will motivate him to move out of his parents’ home and get a life.

The movie has received mixed reviews, though The Post’s Stephen Hunter praised it as “the best comedy since I don’t know when.” But putting aside the movie’s artistic merits or lack thereof, I was struck by how well its central idea resonates with what I’m seeing in my office with greater and greater frequency. Justin goes off to college for a year or two, wastes thousands of dollars of his parents’ money, then gets bored and comes home to take up residence in his old room, the same bedroom where he lived when he was in high school. Now he’s working 16 hours a week at Kinko’s or part time at Starbucks.

His parents are pulling their hair out. “For God’s sake, Justin, you’re 26 years old. You’re not in school. You don’t have a career. You don’t even have a girlfriend. What’s the plan? When are you going to get a life?”

“What’s the problem?” Justin asks. “I haven’t gotten arrested for anything, I haven’t asked you guys for money. Why can’t you just chill?”

This phenomenon cuts across all demographics. You’ll find it in families both rich and poor; black, white, Asian and Hispanic; urban, suburban and rural. According to the Census Bureau, fully one-third of young men ages 22 to 34 are still living at home with their parents — a roughly 100 percent increase in the past 20 years. No such change has occurred with regard to young women. Why?

My friend and colleague Judy Kleinfeld, a professor at the University of Alaska, has spent many years studying this growing phenomenon. She points out that many young women are living at home nowadays as well. But those young women usually have a definite plan. They’re working toward a college degree, or they’re saving money to open their own business. And when you come back three or four years later, you’ll find that in most cases those young women have achieved their goal, or something like it. They’ve earned that degree. They’ve opened their business.

But not the boys. “The girls are driven; the boys have no direction,” is the way Kleinfeld summarizes her findings. Kleinfeld is organizing a national Boys Project, with a board composed of leading researchers and writers such as Sandra Stotsky, Michael Thompson and Richard Whitmire, to figure out what’s going wrong with boys. The project is only a few weeks old, it has called no news conferences and its Web site ( http://www.boysproject.net ) has just been launched.

So far we’ve just been asking one another the question: What’s happening to boys? We’ve batted around lots of ideas. Maybe the problem has to do with the way the school curriculum has changed. Maybe it has to do with environmental toxins that affect boys differently than girls (not as crazy an idea as it sounds). Maybe it has to do with changes in the workforce, with fewer blue-collar jobs and more emphasis on the service industry. Maybe it’s some combination of all of the above, or other factors we haven’t yet identified.

In Ayn Rand’s humorless apocalyptic novel “Atlas Shrugged,” the central characters ask: What would happen if someone turned off the motor that drives the world? We may be living in such a time, a time when the motor that drives the world is running down or stuck in neutral — but only for boys.

Leonard Sax, a family physician and psychologist in Montgomery County, is the author of “Boys Adrift: What’s Really Behind the Growing Epidemic of Unmotivated Boys,” to be published next year. He will take questions at noon today.

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Re: What’s Happening to Boys?

Post by niceguy78 on Mar 31, 2006, 12:10am

Women born after about 1975 to 1980 are in for one hell of a rough life.

When they are ready to settle down and raise a family, all the men they had to step on just to “be equal” (fucking morons) are going to be too far down to be good enough for them.

Stupid fucking cunts.

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Re: What’s Happening to Boys?

Post by morpheus on Mar 31, 2006, 12:11am

First off, I really take issue when an article starts off by citing a marginal box office success to try to prove a point. Remember, at a generous $8 per ticket, a $64 mil gross only amounts to 8 million people– a tiny percentage of the total American population.

Aside from that, wow, what can I say? Boys suck, obviously. That’s the only conclusion I can draw from the article. The good news is that girls are highly dynamic go-getters.

Funny that if boys were acting more proactive, the writer would have no choice but to write about how girls aren’t getting enough opportunities.

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Re: What’s Happening to Boys?

Post by Mes on Mar 31, 2006, 12:20am

Bah, fug em. Go your own way.

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Re: What’s Happening to Boys?

Post by RBK on Mar 31, 2006, 12:27am

Well, that’s actually very interesting. If the policy these days is to go your own way…wouldn’t they be doing everything humanly possible to be financially independent enough to travel and enrich themselves free of womenfolk? Or is it another form of going your own way–in which the idea that you’re only a potential rapist and women are better at this and that girls are much more encouraged that somewhere along the line it translated into “well fine, if you don’t expect anything of me, I guess that means I don’t have to do anything.”

I think it’s disappointing that the article doesn’t throw more theories out there.

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Re: What’s Happening to Boys?

Post by dickthedog on Mar 31, 2006, 12:35am

So far we’ve just been asking one another the question: What’s happening to boys? We’ve batted around lots of ideas. Maybe the problem has to do with the way the school curriculum has changed. Maybe it has to do with environmental toxins that affect boys differently than girls (not as crazy an idea as it sounds). Maybe it has to do with changes in the workforce, with fewer blue-collar jobs and more emphasis on the service industry. Maybe it’s some combination of all of the above, or other factors we haven’t yet identified.

Here we go again. The elitists are panicking. “Why are boys not playing the game? How can we turn them into proper worker drones for the benefit of Womankind?”

They see it coming, gentlemen, and they don’t like it. MGTOW. Why should boys bother playing a rigged game? Why should they volunteer as fodder for the ravenous Feminist Machine? Boys have been told that they’re not necessary, not important, girls are better, boys are stupid and violent. And on and on.

So now comes the feigned concern for boys. they’re concerned alright, concerned that skanks will no longer be able to “marry up”. Concerned that their parasitic system will starve and collapse under it’s own ponderous weight. Concerned they will be unable to indoctrinate sufficient numbers of manginas if boys don’t go to college.

I can only laugh. The day of reckoning is fast approaching.

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Re: What’s Happening to Boys?

Post by niceguy78 on Mar 31, 2006, 12:48am

I can only laugh. The day of reckoning is fast approaching.

It truly is coming, and it is going to be ugly.

I hear so many stories at work, about parents just frustrated with their sons. Their sons will not do their school work, no matter what they try. I dont’ stick my nose in their business, but I know the reason. I too would rather just sit in my room, than deal with this backwards feminist minded bullshit school system.

It is going to get REAL damn ugly, REAL damn fast. If they try a military draft, and do not draft 50% women, I think the country might self destruct right then and there.

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Re: What’s Happening to Boys?

Post by chewbacca on Mar 31, 2006, 1:01am

I was born in 1973. My entire generation has been decimated by the abortion industry and polluted by feminist and new age teaching.

I will stay single, thank you very much.

Nobody has clearly explained what the benefits of marriage to me are anyway. One older guy tried, but all he could come up with was to have a relationship and not be alone.

Sorry, I like being alone. If I want a relationship I will hangout with my siblings or family members during family reunions. Otherwise, I prefer the peace and quit.

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Re: What’s Happening to Boys?

Post by niceguy78 on Mar 31, 2006, 1:18am

Mar 31, 2006, 1:01am, chewbacca wrote:

I was born in 1973. My entire generation has been decimated by the abortion industry and polluted by feminist and new age teaching. I will stay single, thank you very much. Nobody has clearly explained what the benefits of marriage to me are anyway. One older guy tried, but all he could come up with was to have a relationship and not be alone. Sorry, I like being alone. If I want a relationship I will hangout with my siblings or family members during family reunions. Otherwise, I prefer the peace and quit.

No doubt. And if I have time to be lonely, and yet am not financially secure, I am being a lazy piece of shit.

No man in the USA should EVER get involved with a woman, and no man in the USA should EVER feel “lonely”. If you are lonely, you are being lazy. Find a way to improve your life, making money (best choice), working out, learning another language, educating yourself, or just relaxing and being thankful to not be bothered.

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Re: What’s Happening to Boys?

Post by Lee on Mar 31, 2006, 1:30am

It is very simple.

The girls have been told from birth that:

“You can do anything, Grrl! The world is your oyster!” and social attitudes, school and social programs reinforce this every second of the day. Go into a school and read the posters on the wall. All are either for girls or gender neutral.

Thing is, everyone assumed that the boys would inculcate the same attitude as the girls, except that no one is telling the boys that they can do anything, they just assume that they can.

Well any idiot knows that telling one group one thing while giving the silent treatment to the other is not how to randomize your control groups. So the boys say: “Fuck it. I am going to master Ghost Recon on my XBox 360”.

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Re: What’s Happening to Boys?

Post by thor on Mar 31, 2006, 2:18am

The lack of fathers as examples and positive role models is also a contributing factor. I would also venture to say that many boys see their fathers getting a raw deal and are opting out. I agree, the elitists are panicking and the best part is they continue to ignore the obvious and focus on the peripheral issues so as to go on getting paid for “seeking solution” to the problem. I would only home school in this environment today. Schools are nothing but indoctrination centers and far too many teachers are stupid as piss.

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Re: What’s Happening to Boys?

Post by Lurker on Mar 31, 2006, 2:43am

Well here is my personal experience. I am 23 and just finished up my degree (business major). I also just moved back in with my parents 6 months ago. Why? Well first of all I want to make sure I have a steady job with a decent income before I move out. Secondly I live in Silicon Valley (CA) and there is no way in hell I can afford a house, let alone a condo around here. $600k+ for the shittiest condo imaginable is insane, not only that but in my opinion the real estate market has peaked so why would I want to buy now when everything is at its most expensive? I could rent a place but renting is just like throwing money down the drain, might as well make my money work for me and use my house as an investment.

So my only real option would be to advance up the corporate latter at light speed to a six-figure income within the year. Or find a woman to split the costs of a house/condo with me (hahahahahaha that was a joke).

Every single one of my friends in this area still live with their parents, with the exception of one who rents an apartment with his high school sweetheart (who only pays 1/4 of the rent because she only works about 15-20hrs a week). Naturally, they are in debt.

So really, what is the other option? Run up huge debts? Not be able to pay a massive mortgage? This is the best possible thing I could do, I’m establishing my career, saving up money so i can EVENTUALLY move out to a place of my own…even though thats still a long way off.

Oh and all of the women around here that are my age are desperately trying to find a man to latch onto so he will take care of them because all of the LOATHE working for a living.

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Re: What’s Happening to Boys?

Post by Lee on Mar 31, 2006, 3:33am

Mar 31, 2006, 2:43am, Lurker wrote:

Well here is my personal experience. I am 23 and just finished up my degree (business major). I also just moved back in with my parents 6 months ago. Why? Well first of all I want to make sure I have a steady job with a decent income before I move out. Secondly I live in Silicon Valley (CA) and there is no way in hell I can afford a house, let alone a condo around here.

You are 23. You are not supposed to be able to afford a house at that age.

Quote: $600k+ for the shittiest condo imaginable is insane, not only that but in my opinion the real estate market has peaked so why would I want to buy now when everything is at its most expensive? I could rent a place but renting is just like throwing money down the drain,

Well, most adults up to this point in history in the U.S. would move out of the house at 18 or after college, and they would either rent an apartment with roommates, or rent a room in a house with house mates.

This is normal.

I am curious. Why do you think you should own a house before you rent (or never rent at all)? Most people rent for 5-15 years before they buy their own place. This is normal.

Quote: might as well make my money work for me and use my house as an investment.

You are too young to buy a house. Move out, get your own place, save money for a down payment, and then buy your own place. That’s how it was done for decades, and how most people do it.

Quote: So my only real option would be to advance up the corporate latter at light speed to a six-figure income within the year.

What is this huge rush to buy a $600 condo? People don’t buy a $600k house as their first home; you start small and work up. You need to start where you can afford to enter the equity markets, and if you cannot do that in San Jose, well guess what bud, you need to move to somewhere where your income level will buy you an entry level home or condo.

Quote: Every single one of my friends in this area still live with their parents, with the exception of one who rents an apartment with his high school sweetheart (who only pays 1/4 of the rent because she only works about 15-20hrs a week). Naturally, they are in debt. So really, what is the other option? Run up huge debts? Not be able to pay a massive mortgage? This is the best possible thing I could do, I’m establishing my career, saving up money so i can EVENTUALLY move out to a place of my own…even though thats still a long way off.

No, you go without. You rent an apartment, get a roommate, and save your money for a down payment. Expecting to move from mom & dad’s right into your own home that you own is extremely unrealistic.

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Re: What’s Happening to Boys?

Post by sirlancelot on Mar 31, 2006, 3:41am

The only reason more men than women still live with parents is because men don’t have the option of getting pregnant and getting a free house from the government.

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Re: What’s Happening to Boys?

Post by mamonaku on Mar 31, 2006, 7:16am

I’m not sure why these researchers are surprised. Deny and suppress the spirit of Masculinity, and then wonder why boys lack that gung ho spirit of generations past.

I’m thinking that guys today are unconsciously withdrawing from this corrupt society, to husband their strength. MGTOW.

And its not such a bad deal for us… I mean these guys are still knocking boots, playing (warlike and masculine) games, hanging out with the guys, and living a stress free lifestyle. We’re just riding the pine, waiting to be called back into the game. No worries.

For women OTOH, their lives are going to truly suck. Not only will they be the sole caretakers of rug rats, they will also have to put in the ten to twelve hour days that Men used to work. I doubt that the female sex is prepared for this harsh reality. But, what are ya gonna do?? 🙂

Also, a lack of Male spirit will, in the long term, cripple the economy, and the social well being of the country.

I wonder just how long gay marriage, polygamy, and other weird shit would be tolerated with real warriors running the show?

But hey, you reap what you sow. Crack open a beer, pass the controller, and let these selfish women experience “freedom”. Good luck to ya ladies.

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Re: What’s Happening to Boys?

Post by khankrumthebulgar on Mar 31, 2006, 8:07am

My oldest Son got married at 19. Bought his first home then. And became a Father at 22. He became an EMT and Fireman. And was also a Manager of a Banquet Facility at a Casino. Making $60,000 a year. His second son is due on my Birthday this year. He is an overachiever.

I wish I could take all the credit. When he was 10 I gave him Rush Limbaugh’s book “The Way Things Ought To Be”. His older Sister also got a copy. She is the mother of 3 boys and is studying to become a Dental Hygienist.

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Re: What’s Happening to Boys?

Post by knighterrant on Mar 31, 2006, 8:17am

Hell I still live with my parents and refuse to be guilt-tripped for it. Why should I move out? We get on great, we can pool our resources and when I’m successful in business I’ll get my own home. Everyone’s happy.

I’ve no desire to impress the grrrls by living alone.

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Re: What’s Happening to Boys?

Post by grandcurmudgeon on Mar 31, 2006, 8:25am

“If the policy these days is to go your own way…wouldn’t they be doing everything humanly possible to be financially independent enough to travel and enrich themselves free of womenfolk?”

What an interesting way to put it. First of all, there is no “policy” at work here. It is simply the individual decisions of millions and millions of men which add up to a trend. Men on the average are not nearly as materialistic as women. The reason they used to work so hard and be so concerned with making money was because they were locked into the old provider/breadwinner role. Every cultural institution and value pushed them into that role, supported them in it, and gave them no alternatives. Every bit of that has been destroyed in the past 40 years.

I had a really bizarre and terrifying exchange with a woman a couple of years ago. She actually made the statement that she had never given any thought to how men made money, she had always just thought of it as something men just did. I guess she thought we just sit around and grow it like we do hair.

That conversation alone explained so much of what I have observed during this whole social/cultural/economic “deconstruction” process. It was both enraging and terrifying. There was a perfect example of the magical mode of thinking which is the foundation of women thinking they were “oppressed” because they simply did not understand how things work. That woman never gave any thought to the long hours, hard work, high stress, risks, and major unpleasantness which are required to make much money. There used to be cartoon of a girl baby and a boy baby looking inside their diapers with the caption “Oh, that explains the difference in our salaries.” It was one of the most offensive things to men I have ever seen. I wanted to make up a cartoon (except I have no artistic talent and can’t even draw flies) of a woman breezing out of the office while the clock on the wall shows 4:30 saying “gotta pick up the kids”, next to a man still at his desk when the clock shows 8:30 with him saying “No, THAT explains the difference in our salaries.”

“Or is it another form of going your own way–in which the idea that you’re only a potential rapist and women are better at this and that girls are much more encouraged that somewhere along the line it translated into “well fine, if you don’t expect anything of me, I guess that means I don’t have to do anything.”

That’s part of it, but it’s only the tip of the iceberg. Any man who is successful will still be considered to be victimizing all women because “Women still only make 76 cents for every dollar a man makes!” No matter what a man does it gets twisted into women being the victims of it somehow. The only way a man can really avoid victimizing women in some way is to leave them completely the hell alone and avoid them as much as possible.

What is the point of succeeding these days? All it does is make a man into a target for the looters who want to confiscate the fruits of his success in the name of “diversity.” Besides, no matter how hard he works or how successful he is, they will keep changing the rules until he loses. Look at what they do with the marathon races. If a guy works hard to become a great marathon runner, they will rig the game and give women a 15 minute head start. If a woman “wins”, then women everywhere will regard it as a victory of the entire female sex over the entire male sex and start chanting “girls rule, boys drool.” If 15 minutes isn’t enough to rig the game so a woman wins, the next race will give them a 16 minute head start. If a woman still doesn’t win, they will up it to 17 minutes, and keep giving them a head start until some woman finally does win – then they will trumpet to the world how superior all women are to all men.

The roots of this go back more than 30 years. Women have been getting more college degrees than men since the early 1980s. Schools beat down boys as much as they are allowed to get away with, and when the rigged educational system still wasn’t crippling boys enough to let girls win, they started medicating all the little guys who showed any promise at all. A 10 y/o boy on Ritalin in 1990 is today’s 26 y/o who knows through bitter experience that if he shows any promise at all, it will simply make him a target. The nail that sticks up is the one which gets hammered down.

Boys are not nearly as big fools as people have believed. There has been a war against them for more than 30 years, and they have learned to make themselves the smallest possible targets. They have also learned to not feed the system which has as its major priority to destroy them any way it can.

Why make money when any woman can simply trap a sperm and lay claim to most of what they make? It doesn’t even have to be his sperm – any old sperm will do. Women have been “daddy shopping” for ages – “hm, his wallet looks nice and fat, HE’S THE DADDY OF MY BABY!!!”

The H-bomb of the demotivation of males is this insane and evil concept called “imputed income.” Financial success is little more than an excuse to turn a man into complete and total slave of some woman and her new husband “the government.” If a guy is theoretically “capable” of making $100,000/year, it becomes a crime to not make that much.

Why show the world that you have ability when all that will result from it is that the looters will attach themselves to you like parasites, chanting “from each according to his ability, to each according to her need”?

It is fascinating and surreal that the writer would mention “Atlas Shrugged” because all one has to do is read that book and they will understand everything which has happened for the past 40 years and exactly what is going on. Men with ability are going on strike and have been since the 1970s. They are simply refusing to use their “abilities” to support a system which operates under the ideology of a cancer. Why function as a heart or lungs when the tumors suck all the blood anyway? No matter how much blood the heart pumps, the tumors will suck it all up and demand more, and keep demanding that the heart pump more until it bursts from overload.

“I think it’s disappointing that the article doesn’t throw more theories out there.”

The article is not about theories or finding answers, it is nothing but a propaganda piece continuing the policy of “blame men” that Khank pointed out. It is inconceivable to me that so many people could be so stupid as to not be able to see what is happening right in front of their eyes, so my conclusion is that it must be driven by malicious intent.

What no one seemed to count on, or the mediocre and stupid were just too stupid to figure out, is that men didn’t achieve at the levels they did because of some inherent characteristic of men that everyone else lacked. Just like the woman who thought men grew money like we grow hair, they just assumed men would keep doing it no matter how difficult they made it for men to do so.

Well, as Gomer Pyle would say – “Surprise, surprise, surprise!”

Women wanted to be trapped in our old roles as wage slaves, so they enthusiastically jumped in to pushing us out of them. The Powers That Be wanted docile little wage slaves to be the drones of their economic consumerist engine.

Simply because men are not as materialistic as women, the engineers of the velocity economy of goods and services made women their primary targets. And, also because men are not as materialistic and consumption oriented, getting the man out of the middle and preventing him from practicing fiscal responsibility and trying to hold on to some of the wealth he generated, was the best way to drive the velocity economy. So, they concentrated on putting women into the workforce and the $$$ directly into their hands, and coming up with laws which allowed for the confiscation of whatever wealth men were still able to accumulate on their own.

So, it’s pretty much a no-brainer to make the decision between working 60 hours per week at a job you hate, or working zero, or maybe 10-15 hours at something which isn’t too unpleasant, and fucking off the rest of the time – if both decisions give the guy the same results.

And, speaking of no-brainers, this article was written by one of them.

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Re: What’s Happening to Boys?

Post by sirlancelot on Mar 31, 2006, 9:32am

Superb post there grandcurmudgeon! 😀

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Re: What’s Happening to Boys?

Post by itsdan on Mar 31, 2006, 9:43am

I am curious. Why do you think you should own a house before you rent (or never rent at all)? Most people rent for 5-15 years before they buy their own place. This is normal.

Because if you have another option, it’s pissing away money when you rent. My parents love having me around the house. I fix things, I pay rent, I help cook and clean. I live in the New England housing market where renting costs more than buying a house in most other places. I don’t know anyone who’s both renting, and putting money in savings for a house.

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Re: What’s Happening to Boys?

Post by Ully on Mar 31, 2006, 10:08am

grandcurmudgeon, excellent post.

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Re: What’s Happening to Boys?

Post by morpheus on Mar 31, 2006, 11:14am

That’s quite a tome there, GrandC. This is one part I have to question:

Mar 31, 2006, 8:25am, grandcurmudgeon wrote:

What is the point of succeeding these days? All it does is make a man into a target for the looters who want to confiscate the fruits of his success in the name of “diversity.” Besides, no matter how hard he works or how successful he is, they will keep changing the rules until he loses. Look at what they do with the marathon races. If a guy works hard to become a great marathon runner, they will rig the game and give women a 15 minute head start. If a woman “wins”, then women everywhere will regard it as a victory of the entire female sex over the entire male sex and start chanting “girls rule, boys drool.” If 15 minutes isn’t enough to rig the game so a woman wins, the next race will give them a 16 minute head start. If a woman still doesn’t win, they will up it to 17 minutes, and keep giving them a head start until some woman finally does win – then they will trumpet to the world how superior all women are to all men.

Do you have any documentation on this? I mean, are you sure this happens somewhere? I just have trouble believing that anyone would take the “winner” seriously if there was any handicap involved.

Sometimes I hear stories extolling how a “Woman Has Just Beaten The Best Men In The World At Activity X!!!” All I can think of is, “That just leaves, what, 73000 things that men can still do better?”

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Re: What’s Happening to Boys?

Post by morpheus on Mar 31, 2006, 11:18am

Mar 31, 2006, 9:43am, itsdan wrote: I am curious. Why do you think you should own a house before you rent (or never rent at all)? Most people rent for 5-15 years before they buy their own place. This is normal. Because if you have another option, it’s pissing away money when you rent. My parents love having me around the house. I fix things, I pay rent, I help cook and clean. I live in the New England housing market where renting costs more than buying a house in most other places. I don’t know anyone who’s both renting, and putting money in savings for a house.

Preach it. I just want to say that I’ve always wondered what the big deal is about living at home as long as everyone involved — that means parents and child, NOT society at large — are cool with the arrangement. I know plenty of people who find the situation acceptable for them personally. Further, to be multi-culti about this topic, it seems that in other cultures, it’s very common for the children (or maybe just the daughters) to stay at home until they’re married.

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Re: What’s Happening to Boys?

Post by ztp on Mar 31, 2006, 11:34am

Mar 31, 2006, 9:43am, itsdan wrote:

I am curious. Why do you think you should own a house before you rent (or never rent at all)? Most people rent for 5-15 years before they buy their own place. This is normal. Because if you have another option, it’s pissing away money when you rent. My parents love having me around the house. I fix things, I pay rent, I help cook and clean. I live in the New England housing market where renting costs more than buying a house in most other places. I don’t know anyone who’s both renting, and putting money in savings for a house.

Firms lease.

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Re: What’s Happening to Boys?

Post by ztp on Mar 31, 2006, 11:37am

Homerun grandcurmudgeon! Saving this one.

We need to establish a trust fund, scholarship or something for young men where they go through a deprogramming curriculum (like your essay).

Annual recertification required…

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Re: What’s Happening to Boys?

Post by post on Mar 31, 2006, 1:01pm

Mar 31, 2006, 11:14am, morpheus wrote: That’s quite a tome there, GrandC. This is one part I have to question: Mar 31, 2006, 8:25am, grandcurmudgeon wrote: What is the point of succeeding these days? All it does is make a man into a target for the looters who want to confiscate the fruits of his success in the name of “diversity.” Besides, no matter how hard he works or how successful he is, they will keep changing the rules until he loses. Look at what they do with the marathon races. If a guy works hard to become a great marathon runner, they will rig the game and give women a 15 minute head start. If a woman “wins”, then women everywhere will regard it as a victory of the entire female sex over the entire male sex and start chanting “girls rule, boys drool.” If 15 minutes isn’t enough to rig the game so a woman wins, the next race will give them a 16 minute head start. If a woman still doesn’t win, they will up it to 17 minutes, and keep giving them a head start until some woman finally does win – then they will trumpet to the world how superior all women are to all men. Do you have any documentation on this? I mean, are you sure this happens somewhere? I just have trouble believing that anyone would take the “winner” seriously if there was any handicap involved. Sometimes I hear stories extolling how a “Woman Has Just Beaten The Best Men In The World At Activity X!!!” All I can think of is, “That just leaves, what, 73000 things that men can still do better?”

DEFENDING CHAMPIONS RETURN FOR 21ST LOS ANGELES MARATHON Stakes are raised to $100,000 for winner of Banco Popular Challenge.

LOS ANGELES (February 22, 2006) After a thrilling men versus women battle to the finish in 2005, defending champions Mark Saina from Kenya and Lyubov Denisova from Russia are returning for the 2006 City of Los Angeles Marathon presented by Honda. The Sunday, March 19 event will once again include the newly-named Banco Popular Challenge, in which the professional women will be given a head start over the professional men, with $100,000 awarded to the first athlete to cross the finish line. As proof of the excitement that the Banco Popular Challenge brings to the race, in 2005 Saina passed Denisova in the 26th mile after she was awarded a 15 minute and 50 second head start.

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Re: What’s Happening to Boys?

Post by RBK on Mar 31, 2006, 1:08pm

Very good post Grand.

Here’s a thought I’d like you’re opinion on (and anyone else who feels like joining in, of course)…how many of the young men that still live at home live with both (biological) parents?

Somehow, I don’t see a lot of live-ins with their single moms or the proverbial “evil stepmother”. If the parents are still making it work after 20-odd years, they clearly must have more traditional values and practices than the average liberal-feminist-politically correct “unit.” I’d have to wonder if that environment is simply much more appealing and a major factor in that lifestyle.

Of course, I could be totally off-base with the above, but…if THAT’s true, I doubt very many of them were drugged out of their minds as kids. Their parents just wouldn’t buy into it. Personally, I think drugging kids actually makes them stupid, rather than helping them improve on their focus. None of the kids I knew made better grades after Ritalin–it keeps them at a solid average at best. Only one told me it had good effects, and she’s my youngest cousin. I’m still waiting out on the results for her.

So, do the motivated boys get drugged into being docile sheep that do as they’re told end up being the ones that continue to feed into the system because they were too stoned for rational thought? Is that the Fematrix fabrication method? It would be a win-win situation…the boys are kept at a quiet average and turn into steady drones, allowing the girls to take the opportunities, and the ones that aren’t drugged weed themselves out of the system.

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Re: What’s Happening to Boys?

Post by Lurker on Mar 31, 2006, 1:45pm

Lee,

I don’t know why you are busting my balls, perhaps I didn’t make myself clear enough. I WAS living outside of the house and renting an apartment with a roommate while I was at college. Now that I am done, I have moved back in with my parents due to the insane prices of houses, condo’s, and renting. Why would I willingly flush at least $1,200 down the toilet each month for a shitty little apartment? Whats wrong with staying with my parents in their $1.75 million home while having a job? I have no debts, and $50k saved up, yes I COULD be pissing that money away to rent an apartment, but that doesn’t make much sense now does it. Why not save until I can buy a condo/house?

I don’t know why you’d want to guilt try a fellow man for saving money. You sound like the typical AW “What are you saving money for?”

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Re: What’s Happening to Boys?

Post by chrisw79 on Mar 31, 2006, 3:15pm

Right now I live with my grandparents. And if I didn’t, there’d be no one here to take care of them. It’s not a perfect arrangement, but it works while I save up. I’m not opposed to moving out to a house or apartment with roommates, as long as I knew the people and we had no problems. I view renting as a way to work on credit, maintain some dignity in independence, and inherent flexibility.

Hey Lurker, I’m in the Bay Area too. Maybe we could chat sometime about this insane housing market.

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Re: What’s Happening to Boys?

Post by grandcurmudgeon on Mar 31, 2006, 4:19pm

Mar 31, 2006, 1:01pm, post wrote: Mar 31, 2006, 11:14am, morpheus wrote:

That’s quite a tome there, GrandC. This is one part I have to question:Do you have any documentation on this? I mean, are you sure this happens somewhere? I just have trouble believing that anyone would take the “winner” seriously if there was any handicap involved. Sometimes I hear stories extolling how a “Woman Has Just Beaten The Best Men In The World At Activity X!!!” All I can think of is, “That just leaves, what, 73000 things that men can still do better?”

DEFENDING CHAMPIONS RETURN FOR 21ST LOS ANGELES MARATHON Stakes are raised to $100,000 for winner of Banco Popular Challenge. LOS ANGELES (February 22, 2006) After a thrilling men versus women battle to the finish in 2005, defending champions Mark Saina from Kenya and Lyubov Denisova from Russia are returning for the 2006 City of Los Angeles Marathon presented by Honda. The Sunday, March 19 event will once again include the newly-named Banco Popular Challenge, in which the professional women will be given a head start over the professional men, with $100,000 awarded to the first athlete to cross the finish line. As proof of the excitement that the Banco Popular Challenge brings to the race, in 2005 Saina passed Denisova in the 26th mile after she was awarded a 15 minute and 50 second head start.

From the main page of the above mentioned site –

Raceday Start Times:

7:57 A.M. Elite Women Only!

8:17 A.M. Elite Men & Full Field.

From the results page linked off that page-

“Official Start Time: 8:14:45 PST”

From a news item on sfgate.com

Rack up another victory for the women in the Los Angeles Marathon.

Russian Lidiya Grigoryeva staved off a late effort by men’s champion Benson Cherono to win Sunday’s race, marking the second time in three years that a woman has won “The Challenge,” a battle-ofthe- sexes format that allows women to start ahead of their male counterparts.

Grigoryeva, who set a course record in the women’s division, earned a $100,000 bonus for the winning time of 2 hours, 25 minutes and 10 seconds.”

The winning time for the fastest man was 2:08:40, 16 minutes and 30 seconds faster than the fastest woman.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/wire?section=trackandfield&id=2376365

“This year, race organizers gave the top women runners a 16:46 head start in hopes of creating a close finish with the top men. Last year’s time differential was 15:50.”

Obviously the 15 minute 50 second head start given last year was not enough to insure that a woman won, so it was upped by almost a minute – just enough to let a woman “win” by 16 seconds. If one hadn’t, next year they would have probably been given almost 18 minutes, and so on until women were guaranteed a “win.”

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Re: What’s Happening to Boys?

Post by grandcurmudgeon on Mar 31, 2006, 7:48pm

“Here’s a thought I’d like you’re opinion on (and anyone else who feels like joining in, of course)…how many of the young men that still live at home live with both (biological) parents?

Somehow, I don’t see a lot of live-ins with their single moms or the proverbial “evil stepmother”. If the parents are still making it work after 20-odd years, they clearly must have more traditional values and practices than the average liberal-feminist-politically correct “unit.” I’d have to wonder if that environment is simply much more appealing and a major factor in that lifestyle.”

I could only think of 5 or 6 examples that I have seen personally of men still living at home in their late 20s or early 30s. Unlike our trolls, I would not leap to the conclusion that my own experiences are the only way things could be, but of the ones I do know personally, all but one lived with single moms. And, there was a lot more going on as well. The relationships tended to be very emotionally incestuous, with the mother looking to the son to meet the emotional needs a husband is normally expected to provide. Complicating matters even further, the boys tended to have the same view of their fathers that the mothers did, and to suffer from a guilty need to “make it up to mom” for the failures of all the men in her life – his father being the worst example. The definition of manhood these boys formed both consciously and unconsciously was to be as unlike their fathers as possible, because their identification with their mothers made them need to place all the blame for the failure of the marriage (or pairing) on their father and hold their mother blameless – much like how we see women treated by the legal system today. Their goal was to be “better men” than their fathers, which meant to be pretty much whatever mom wanted them to be because she was the only adult that they could look to for guidance in forming their male identity.

In addition, they suffered major guilt and anxiety if they contemplated abandoning her, as their “no good” fathers did, and the mother was also threatened by the potential loss of her substitute “mate”, so they tended not to form bonds which might lead to partnerships with women their own age. The mothers would often reinforce this by being extremely critical of any woman their sons dated, either unconsciously projecting or explicitly stating that her rival was not good enough for “my boy.”

It is far from a new phenomenon. It used to be much more common among widows who were afraid to be alone if their sons left, so they kept them bound emotionally to them. In the very small town where I grew up, I can think of at least 3 middle-aged or older men who had never left home and never married who still lived with their mothers, and this was back in the 1950s and 60s. In a town of 300, that was one percent of the total population, which if it held true for the population as whole today would amount to 3 million men in that situation.

There even used to be a phrase for the role of the father in pushing the boy out of the nest and breaking the emotional codependency between mother and son. It was called “cutting the apron strings.” Relationships between teen aged boys and their fathers have always been strained, and it was virtually always the fathers who put a boot up the boys’ butts and said “Get out and find a job, you lazy bum!”

As far as the “wicked stepmother” goes, that is a female archetype, not a male one.

I don’t follow your thinking that a more traditional upbringing would be more likely to make a boy live in an untraditional manner. If his parents have a working traditional marriage, he is actually more likely to go out and try to find the same sort of arrangement for himself. It seems like you are discounting the role of the parents beyond being furnishings in his life and thinking that all the decision-making power rests with him. A traditional family would have been preparing him for the role of husband since he was an infant, and would be pressuring him to leave home and start his own family – particularly the father.

Don’t confuse that stupid movie that is out now with reality. In that movie, both of the parents are too weak to just tell the boy to grow up and get out. The entire comedic premise is based on an inversion of reality.

Take a look at the instinctive reaction Lee has to boys who live at home past their young adulthood – that is the traditional male attitude.

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Re: What’s Happening to Boys?

Post by xizang on Mar 31, 2006, 8:32pm

Mar 31, 2006, 3:41am, sirlancelot wrote:

The only reason more men than women still live with parents is because men don’t have the option of getting pregnant and getting a free house from the government.

No, the way modern women are doing it is to seduce a guy, get pregnant, and get HIM to provide a free house, income, and the rest of the frills “for the children”.

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Re: What’s Happening to Boys?

Post by grandcurmudgeon on Mar 31, 2006, 9:13pm

Mar 31, 2006, 1:45pm, Lurker wrote:

Lee,

I don’t know why you are busting my balls, perhaps I didn’t make myself clear enough. I WAS living outside of the house and renting an apartment with a roommate while I was at college. Now that I am done, I have moved back in with my parents due to the insane prices of houses, condo’s, and renting. Why would I willingly flush at least $1,200 down the toilet each month for a shitty little apartment? Whats wrong with staying with my parents in their $1.75 million home while having a job? I have no debts, and $50k saved up, yes I COULD be pissing that money away to rent an apartment, but that doesn’t make much sense now does it. Why not save until I can buy a condo/house? I don’t know why you’d want to guilt try a fellow man for saving money. You sound like the typical AW “What are you saving money for?”

Lurker,

I can’t speak for Lee, but I’m guessing it was a gut reaction which came from being raised under the old style of masculinity which believed that the worst thing in the world which could be done to a boy is to “mollycoddle” him.

Guys like he and I grew up in an entirely different world than the one that you and guys of your generation grew up in. It is often very difficult to bridge the gap between the two. Some of the men I remember most fondly for teaching me some hard lessons which have served me well throughout my life would no doubt seem like total assholes to you.

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Re: What’s Happening to Boys?

Post by niceguy78 on Mar 31, 2006, 9:49pm

I wish I could live with my parents. I could save a lot of money, and invest it for my future. I am 27, and would live there until about 40 and retire.

Instead I own my own house. Not anything to brag about, and in fact I never tell USA shit women this. I don’t want them getting all hot and bothered, I want them to stay away from me.

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Re: What’s Happening to Boys?

Post by RBK on Mar 31, 2006, 9:58pm

lol, I saw about half the preview and that was about it. Romantic comedies have degenerated so badly that I avoid them altogether these days, unless there’s absolutely nothing else to rent. It all just went downhill after How To Lose A Guy In 10 Days. I still find it hard to believe that I let myself be coerced into watching that garbage. *shudder*

I suppose then that I approached it from the wrong angle. The people that I know fill the opposite demographic of the people that you know, but the fathers are usually somewhat…absent. All functional, more traditional families to be sure but no one ever tried to cut anyone’s apron strings. The mother/father relationship that I know the most about is basically this: dad lets mom do whatever she wants. Thinking about the others, I suppose that’s true in the other 3 cases that I know directly although since I had less interaction with the parents than with the child, I can’t be totally sure. In that regard you could be right.

OTOH, there isn’t guilt so much as being pretty damn comfy. In their own words, they’ll leave the nest when/if they find a suitable girl and not before. It’s possible that they’re on the extremist side of traditional, but since they never portrayed it to me in a way other than “why should I waste my money on a bachelor pad when I have everything I need basically for free”, it’s doubtful. The one person that I know that lives with his single mom is desperately looking for a way out–mostly the cost of living is just too prohibitive for him to do so.

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Re: What’s Happening to Boys?

Post by Lee on Mar 31, 2006, 10:48pm

Mar 31, 2006, 7:16am, mamonaku wrote: For women OTOH, their lives are going to truly suck. Not only will they be the sole caretakers of rug rats, they will also have to put in the ten to twelve hour days that Men used to work. I doubt that the female sex is prepared for this harsh reality. But, what are ya gonna do?? 🙂 Also, a lack of Male spirit will, in the long term, cripple the economy, and the social well being of the country. But hey, you reap what you sow. Crack open a beer, pass the controller, and let these selfish women experience “freedom”. Good luck to ya ladies.

Sometimes I read an article and it clarifies the terrific position I am in.

No debt, hefty positive net worth, I work a demanding job because I want to, like the challenge to my abilities, and look forward to the career growth. I can earn as much as I want, within reason, and should I want to scale back and work half the year and spend the other 6 months traveling, I can do that. I can do contract work, save up for 4 months at a time, then take 2 months off out of country. Or decide to move down market and take a position well under my abilities, that offers low stress, low bs and good hours and benefits.

I can do all of these things because I don’t have a cavernous mortgage, any car debt or leases, or kids, support payments, alimony, a wife, an ex wife or any of those financial burdens.

When I want my fill of kids, I fly to visit my nieces and nephews, and when I tire, I leave and go home to my own place. Ideal.

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Re: What’s Happening to Boys?

Post by Lee on Mar 31, 2006, 10:57pm

Mar 31, 2006, 9:13pm, grandcurmudgeon wrote: Mar 31, 2006, 1:45pm, Lurker wrote:

Lee,I don’t know why you are busting my balls, perhaps I didn’t make myself clear enough. I WAS living outside of the house and renting an apartment with a roommate while I was at college. Now that I am done, I have moved back in with my parents due to the insane prices of houses, condo’s, and renting. Why would I willingly flush at least $1,200 down the toilet each month for a shitty little apartment? Whats wrong with staying with my parents in their $1.75 million home while having a job? I have no debts, and $50k saved up, yes I COULD be pissing that money away to rent an apartment, but that doesn’t make much sense now does it. Why not save until I can buy a condo/house? I don’t know why you’d want to guilt try a fellow man for saving money. You sound like the typical AW “What are you saving money for?” Lurker, I can’t speak for Lee, but I’m guessing it was a gut reaction which came from being raised under the old style of masculinity which believed that the worst thing in the world which could be done to a boy is to “mollycoddle” him. Guys like he and I grew up in an entirely different world than the one that you and guys of your generation grew up in. It is often very difficult to bridge the gap between the two. Some of the men I remember most fondly for teaching me some hard lessons which have served me well throughout my life would no doubt seem like total assholes to you.

That’s the place I was coming from GC.

When I was 18, I moved out, was given $50 and went off to school. Had to get my appetite out of the house and free up a bedroom.

I can’t think of a worse thing than to hold a young man’s hand and let him live at home for years and years and years. Young adults, men and women, need to strike out into the world, make their own way, earn and maintain their independence both financially and emotionally. Usually that means eating lots of pasta while starting out, and that is normal.

Going without builds character, and it seems that Lurker doesn’t want to go without when he can move back home and have it easy.

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Re: What’s Happening to Boys?

Post by Lee on Mar 31, 2006, 11:09pm

Mar 31, 2006, 1:45pm, Lurker wrote:

Lee,

I don’t know why you are busting my balls, perhaps I didn’t make myself clear enough. I WAS living outside of the house and renting an apartment with a roommate while I was at college. Now that I am done, I have moved back in with my parents due to the insane prices of houses, condo’s, and renting. Why would I willingly flush at least $1,200 down the toilet each month for a shitty little apartment? Whats wrong with staying with my parents in their $1.75 million home while having a job? I have no debts, and $50k saved up, yes I COULD be pissing that money away to rent an apartment, but that doesn’t make much sense now does it. Why not save until I can buy a condo/house? I don’t know why you’d want to guilt try a fellow man for saving money. You sound like the typical AW “What are you saving money for?”

Saving money is great, but adults get out and make it on their own. This isn’t guilt tripping, this is old school, mid-20th century masculinity offering its opinion. You can afford to live on your own, in your own apartment.

So do it.

Your parents lifestyle isn’t yours, which is what any adult who moves out learns very quickly. You want to live in a $1.75 million dollar home? Then go out and save and work for 25 years, and just like your parents, you too will have that big home.

But not now. You haven’t earned it yet.

This entails NOT living with mom and dad.

It is a basic of human development, and not moving on when one is 18-22 just thwarts development.

That’s how guys my age were raised:

Get the fuck out of the house, grow up, earn a living and pay your own way.

And if you don’t, you’re just not willing to cut the apron strings. You are taking the easy way out.

So, yeah, I view living at home past age 23 to be a sign that most haven’t learned to support themselves (because someone who lives at home isn’t), because they are playing it safe.

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Re: What’s Happening to Boys?

Post by grandcurmudgeon on Mar 31, 2006, 11:20pm

“The people that I know fill the opposite demographic of the people that you know, but the fathers are usually somewhat…absent. All functional, more traditional families to be sure but no one ever tried to cut anyone’s apron strings. The mother/father relationship that I know the most about is basically this: dad lets mom do whatever she wants.”

In addition, the last one I could remember was probably about 10 years ago. Much has changed in that time. I also have a totally different perspective than you would – you are looking at your contemporaries and their parents, I’m looking at my contemporaries and their children. You know a great many more people your age than I do, and thus your observations are more likely to reflect the current situation. I can’t actually think of any families I know that fit my definition of “traditional.”

It’s very difficult to describe to a young person of today just how much the social context has changed. There simply is not the same kind of social pressure on boys and men to get out there and earn enough to support a family that there was when I was their age. I can’t think of even one of the guys I grew up with who didn’t leave home shortly after graduation from HS and never returned. I’m sure that if any of us had even asked that our fathers would have said “WHAT?!?! Are you crazy?!?!!!” I don’t know if you even know about the phenomenon among birds of the parents literally pushing the young out of the nest, but that was pretty much the norm up until about 20 years ago. Returning home would have been admitting defeat, failure, and would be the ultimate humiliation. RealMen(tm) handled their own problems and took responsibility for their own lives.

Two things you said stood out for me – actually three. The fact that the fathers were absent, that they “let” the mothers do whatever they want, and that life for the boys was “comfy.” The picture I got was that the fathers were a sort of shadow presence, or non-presence, leaving the wife to run the home and not forcing the boys to make the transition from dependency to independence. That fits in with what I have heard from a lot of young women over the past 15 years or so – that their potential mates are looking for someone to take up where their mother leaves off, without missing a meal.

But, to return to your original question. Boys today are simply not under the same pressure to succeed as they were when I was growing up. Much of that pressure has now been transferred to the girls, and the boys left to just drift along. The multiple social institutions which used to exist – many in the form of all-male organizations – have been destroyed and boys are left with absent fathers and mass media to look to for clues about their role in life (god help them). For example, every one of my circle of friends in HS had some sort of job during at least their last 2 years of HS if not before. If we wanted cars, we got jobs and bought them and the gas to run them, and the tires, and the insurance. Like Lee mentioned, we put ourselves through college however we could. We didn’t have a safety net. Failure was not an option.

But, in those days it was possible. I know that it isn’t any more. Real wages have become so depressed and prices so inflated that most young people are locked out of the relative self-sufficiency that my generation enjoyed. I could easily earn enough in a summer to buy a new Volkswagen Beetle (the original model, $1,666 brand new), and could make enough working for a couple of bucks an hour to pay my rent and food while I was going to college. Kids can’t do that any more, and so they extend indolent adolescence for at least 10 years longer than they used to. They don’t just spontaneously wake up one day and decide to completely change their lives, they tend to keep drifting along in the same groove (or rut) that they are used to.

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Re: What’s Happening to Boys?

Post by guy lurking about on Mar 31, 2006, 11:38pm

Lee,

I have no disagreement with your view. It’s perfectly respectable that a man should head out into the world on his own at a young age. OTOH, there is nothing particularly wrong with living with your folks either, especially if you’ve lost your job, or are trying to save, or any number of reasons that make living on your own tough at the moment. And if your parents are willing to take you in, I see no reason why not.

I’m not going to lie and say I don’t prefer to live on my own – I do. I like my privacy, and yes, sometimes having parents around can be a pain. For some, living with the parents may not be a good idea, and I don’t recommend this choice to everyone. But for those who are comfortable with it, or have to do it, they have valid reasons and their choice to stay with their parents is perfectly fine too, as long as they are responsible, help out, and work towards eventually living on their own. Personalities are different, and some are able to spread their wings early on and head out on their own. Others aren’t. I say, to each his own, and ultimately, it’s more important to keep the focus on the main goal, which is saving, living responsibly, and being a good, useful person in one’s own community. That isn’t compromised by where you choose to live, either on your own or with your folks.

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Re: What’s Happening to Boys?

Post by grandcurmudgeon on Mar 31, 2006, 11:50pm

“I can’t think of a worse thing than to hold a young man’s hand and let him live at home for years and years and years. Young adults, men and women, need to strike out into the world, make their own way, earn and maintain their independence both financially and emotionally. Usually that means eating lots of pasta while starting out, and that is normal.”

In my case it was brown rice. I could get it for 8 cents/lb – 8 bucks for 100lb bag. God, did I get sick of brown rice. My food budget was $1.00 per day.

Going without builds character, and it seems that Lurker doesn’t want to go without when he can move back home and have it easy.

I don’t think either you or I can accomplish on this board what the culture and Lurker’s father didn’t do. Let’s cut him a bit of slack and see if we can get to the point we want to reach by taking another path. You and I didn’t suddenly arrive at our hardness on our 18th birthday, we had old-style men training it into us our whole lives. He hasn’t.

“It is a basic of human development, and not moving on when one is 18-22 just thwarts development.

That’s how guys my age were raised:

Get the fuck out of the house, grow up, earn a living and pay your own way.

And if you don’t, you’re just not willing to cut the apron strings. You are taking the easy way out.

So, yeah, I view living at home past age 23 to be a sign that most haven’t learned to support themselves (because someone who lives at home isn’t), because they are playing it safe”.

What the hell do you expect, Lee? They were raised in the age of the nanny state. Their mommies probably never let them ride their bikes without a helmet and knee pads. If their old man backhanded them for talking back, they were taught they could call the cops on him.

Guys don’t learn the old way because it arises spontaneously from their testicles. Their dads were probably so marginalized out of their lives by mom that he could never teach it to them, and most of the adult men they have run into have probably been corporate back-stabbing assholes like Ken Lay. The fem-nags have been trying to “deconstruct” the kind of masculinity that you and I know since long before these boys were born, let’s not take the fact that the bitches have succeeded, out on the boys who are the result of it.

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Re: What’s Happening to Boys?

Post by Lee on Apr 1, 2006, 11:42am

Mar 31, 2006, 11:50pm, grandcurmudgeon wrote:

I don’t think either you or I can accomplish on this board what the culture and Lurker’s father didn’t do. Let’s cut him a bit of slack and see if we can get to the point we want to reach by taking another path. You and I didn’t suddenly arrive at our hardness on our 18th birthday, we had old-style men training it into us our whole lives. He hasn’t.

When ever I begin to be intolerant, I can usually count on you to dispense some timely wisdom of tolerance.

You are right; it is just stunning to me that a man in his late 20’s or 30’s would argue FOR living at home. There are so many values I hold, so many reasons that it should not be done, that, to me, it is as obvious and omnipresent as the air we breath.

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Re: What’s Happening to Boys?

Post by khankrumthebulgar on Apr 1, 2006, 12:03pm

Boys are wising up to the Fact that Men have been turned into an exploitable resource. Only Gays and Women matter in the media. We are going to see many More “Bareback Mountings” as Michael Savage calls it.

Our culture sees Men only in what they can provide for Women. And Men are bailing on Women. So now the Women folk are starting to panic. You say Marriage Strike and Women immediately show up to defend the benefits (really for themselves) and why we should willingly put our heads in the noose. No Thanks honey.

The Elite now realize the fruits of decades of predation of Males and the imbalance provided to Women is catching up with them. And they are frightened about our future. The Conservatives LIARS have paid lip service to Family Life and Faith. Meanwhile they too have pandered to the Lesbians who despise Men, Families, Children, & Marriage.

Islam a very masculine dominated Faith will not capitulate to Feminism. Check out the Woman being buried alive for Adultery on the website. TheReligionofPeace.com and ask yourself if they will cave into the FemNags. Here is a surprise for you. I met a really hot Blonde a few years ago. A former Stripper who turned Moslem. She is 28 and Married to a Moslem Man who is 41. She told me she loves a Strong Man who dominates, protects, and cherishes her. Ali does all of those things but is also very sweet to her.

With Decent Men, Moslem Women are very happy. Abusive Men are enabled but most Men want a happy family life.

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Re: What’s Happening to Boys?

Post by grandcurmudgeon on Apr 1, 2006, 1:08pm

Apr 1, 2006, 11:42am, Lee wrote:

it is just stunning to me that a man in his late 20’s or 30’s would argue FOR living at home. There are so many values I hold, so many reasons that it should not be done, that, to me, it is as obvious and omnipresent as the air we breath.

I share those values, Lee, but bear in mind that those very values have been the most devastating weapons that the feminidiots have used against us. If women had respected those old values, we would not be in the mess we are in.

Boys are adapting. They are finding ways to beat the system which has enslaving them as its main purpose. The upcoming crop of 30something women are going to left out in the cold as no group has ever been before. I’m glad to see it. I actually think guys like us should be supporting young men who make this decision, because the culture sure as hell is going to try to shame them into letting BranMuffin attach herself to their wallets.

As long as another guy joins the marriage strike, I really don’t care how he goes about it.

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Re: What’s Happening to Boys?

Post by Richie Rich on Apr 1, 2006, 1:26pm

..I saw the saying in another forum somewhere but the posters hit the nail on the head. The only sudden reason for the concern for young boys is that women now realize that their daughters will not have a “suitable” wallet to rape in the future. They are only concerned about the loss of potential victims and nothing more!!!

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Re: What’s Happening to Boys?

Post by Lee on Apr 1, 2006, 6:17pm

Apr 1, 2006, 1:26pm, Richie Rich wrote:

..I saw the saying in another forum somewhere but the posters hit the nail on the head. The only sudden reason for the concern for young boys is that women now realize that their daughters will not have a “suitable” wallet to rape in the future. They are only concerned about the loss of potential victims and nothing more!!!

Right. Women only get concerned when they are impacted.

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Re: What’s Happening to Boys?

Post by khankrumthebulgar on Apr 2, 2006, 11:58am

The Pool of Quality high earner Males is shrinking. And Women are coming to the realization that Butch the Biker is not a reliable Husband. Maybe a good Fuck Buddy but not a decent selection for a mate. Oops maybe there are choices in life and consequences to those choices. Maybe???

This is the crux of the problem. Unrealistic expectations that AW have with a self reinforcing delusion fed by the Idiot Box and the Dream Factory in Hollyweird. Now Women are coming to the realization that Males are sick of this culture, despise our schools, and want nothing to do with the Gynocracy that Conservatives have helped to create.

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