"Obviously there were two deaths that triggered this, terrible things to happen and the guys who did it should rot in hell – however neither of them were in venues – they were walking around the streets looking for trouble." The lock-out laws introduced by then Premier Barry O'Farrell's government following the death of Thomas Kelly forced, among other things, inner city nightspots to ban entry from 1.30am and shut at 3am. Violent assaults have plummeted making streets safer but critics say Sydney's nightlife is dead. Retired High Court judge Ian Callinan has reviewed the laws and recommended a mild easing. With Premier Mike Baird already backing down on his controversial greyhound industry ban and mutterings of a similar "reverse pike from Mike" on lockout laws, Hemmes is trying to be diplomatic. "I don't have the solution – I think ..." he trails off. "I shouldn't say what should happen."

He starts again. "I have a lot of faith in Mike Baird – his true interests lie in what's best for the state and the people and he doesn't make decisions out of self-interest – so I'm confident over time that if there are changes made then he will continue to mould it until we get to the right place." Is he pleased to hear of the possibility of rollbacks? "Yes." What would he like to see done? "Maybe the right scenario is the lockouts go to 2am – I think 1:30's a bit too early – I think 2 o'clock is probably a more reasonable time. "But then I think a 3 o'clock finish is not right – if you're a shift worker, a hospitality worker, and you finish work, at 2am you want to go out and have a drink, you want to go and socialise with your friends. The city should still be vibrant at 3 or 4 o'clock in the morning and in the venues – and that you feel when you go out of the venues you feel safe in the streets."

You want to stay open til 4? "At least 4 o'clock – there are enough controls in place, we can't let people get drunk in venues." "We need a vibrant city, we're an international city and we need a level of vibrancy. We need to have a respectful and safe community – I think we test certain measures and see how effective they are – but the current ones are detrimental to our city – Melbourne's laughing at us, saying come to Melbourne." Hemmes says he has not raised his concerns directly with the government or the premier. Nor does he complain his business has been adversely affected by the lockouts. At 44, Hemmes is firmly in control of the family empire. It's 18 months since the death of his father John after a lengthy battle with cancer and he and partner Kate Fowler have a daughter, Alexa, who's about to turn one. Arriving at Long Chim (which is not owned by Merivale), Hemmes is immediately checking out the kitchen, inspecting the fittings and taking in the room. Chef David Thompson quickly learns Hemmes is in the house and comes to greet him and check how hungry we are before offering to bring out some dishes. Menu cast aside, Hemmes is full of praise. "He's brilliant."

Have you tried to lure him to one of your venues? There's an awkward silence. "We've chatted," says Hemmes with a laugh, before tucking into an entree of chive cakes and satay chicken. A myriad of Hemmes family private companies control Merivale, making tracking the fortunes of the overall empire difficult. The parent company Hemmes Group primarily invests in a range of subsidiaries, such as Hemmes Trading which runs a series of the better-known venues. Justin Hemmes himself has appeared only once in BRW's Young RIch List nearly a decade ago valued at some $37 million. While Hemmes is known for his hospitality nous and a reinvention of the Sydney hospitality scene over the past 15 years, he acknowledges Merivale's business success depends as much on a more common Sydney industry: property development. The business typically buys attractive sites or spaces of interest which Hemmes, along with his sister Bettina, refurbishes to create a hospitality hub in the area that improves the value of the property. Various reports over the past few years have put the value of that property portfolio at somewhere around $500 million. "It's two hats, property investor and developer and the hospitality business. I love property, the operating side of the business is to enhance the value of the property and to pay the rent, or the interest. "It serves two purposes. Basically it builds the value of the land. My passion is creating venues for people."

He didn't get into the property and hospitality double act knowingly. "My father had incredible passion for property and he always tried ot instil that into me. I went into the hospitality side of things first, i enjoyed it. I enjoyed the interaction with people. I enjoyed the serving side of things. I went into construction and I worked on a construction site – that's when I fell in love with property – I spent two years on a construction site and that was the best thing that ever happened to me. " Merivale's dual business model has helped it avoid the perennial boom and bust cycle of Sydney's pub industry and allowed Hemmes to redevelop an outmoded beer barn culture with tastes customers have developed as they have increasingly travelled the world over the past two decades. Merivale has so far largely hugged the Sydney coast, with the furthest west he's gone is Alexandria and Enmore – so how about pushing west, like Parramatta? "Parramatta probably would be a good place to open. There's so much happening there. Nothing's ruled out. "The success of the business allows us the scope to grow. We're not sellers – everything we build we're building it for ourselves. We use cash generated from the business, we reinvest back into the company and our lovely friends at the bank facilitate and help us grow.

"We invest a lot into our buildings, we don't try and squeeze the most profit out of the business. We could do our developments for probably a quarter of what we spend to get a similar effect. "We're building things forever."