READER COMMENTS ON

"BREAKING: JUDGE DENIES PLAINTIFF MOTION TO REVIEW PAPERLESS VOTING MACHINE SOURCE CODE IN CONTESTED FL-13 U.S. HOUSE ELECTION, PLAINTIFFS TO APPEAL"

(36 Responses so far...)





COMMENT #1 [Permalink]

... des said on 12/29/2006 @ 1:44 pm PT...





unbelievable. how did it come to this, that the so-called needs of one "person" in the form of a business(the legal standing of corporations, under U. S. law) is more important than the needs of 18,000+ people in FL-13 and their right to equal representation in the U.S. House?

COMMENT #2 [Permalink]

... Larry Bergan said on 12/29/2006 @ 1:58 pm PT...





CONJECTURE THIS! Judges aren't there to protect voting machine companies, and neither are congressman and senators!

COMMENT #3 [Permalink]

... Conley Gwinn said on 12/29/2006 @ 2:21 pm PT...





"Relief for Plaintiff(s) is readily available at the polls" (wink, wink) "where ES&S will count the votes on any ballot initiative proposed to remedy this complaint."

COMMENT #4 [Permalink]

... John Gideon said on 12/29/2006 @ 2:55 pm PT...





First, remember that this is only the evidentiery part of the case. There will be more to come. Second, remember that a team of computer scientists from one of the Florida Universities is actually doing what the court said Jennings' experts cannot do; they are inspecting the source code. Some of those scientists are experts that I would call. This, to some extent, makes this court ruling out to be pretty stupid and the state and ES&S's arguments against inspection rather non-sensical. Third, the seating of Buchanan will be challenged by Rep Holt on the floor of the House. Buchanan will be seated, and Jennings has agreed to this, but it will not affect the lawsuit or challenge in any way according to legal interpretations I have heard.

COMMENT #5 [Permalink]

... Sam said on 12/29/2006 @ 2:59 pm PT...





The whole software review thing is futile anyway. For Pete's sake! If there are errors, most likely they will not be found. No one can write error-free code; and the most stringent screening never finds all the errors. Microsoft, despite genuine best-faith effort, has to issue new bug fixes every week. And black hats who write malware take pains to be sure that it will not be recognized... And the obscenely inadequate Independent Testing Agencies are precluded by regulation from even looking at so-called Over-The-Counter Software -in which, correspondingly, evildoers can plant their trojans with impunity.... Hand count paper ballots - machine-free!

COMMENT #6 [Permalink]

... Neoconvict said on 12/29/2006 @ 2:59 pm PT...





Good God. What a nice way to close out the year. The battle rages on, folks. And the Dems STILL do not appear to get it...

COMMENT #7 [Permalink]

... Steve Lane said on 12/29/2006 @ 3:00 pm PT...





"I. For this Court to grant Plaintiffs' motions would require this Court to find that it is reasonably necessary for the Plaintiffs to have access to the trade secrets of Defendant, Election Systems & Software, Inc., based on nothing more than speculation and conjecture, and would result in destroying or at least gutting the protections afforded those who own the trade secrets." I think you left out the sub text so I will give it to you here: "1b. So instead I prefer to destroy and gut the right of voters to have their votes counted by a verifiable and transparent counting system.Other wise there can be no guarantee that they won't vote for the wrong candidate."

COMMENT #8 [Permalink]

... Illinois Patriot said on 12/29/2006 @ 3:08 pm PT...





Sites to remember in 2007:

http://judiciary.house.gov/

http://judiciary.senate.gov/members.cfm

COMMENT #9 [Permalink]

... Savantster said on 12/29/2006 @ 3:19 pm PT...





Anyone still not clear here? PROFITS (dangling balls.. lessthan_symbol 3) everything else.. even our OWN Democracy.. Remember it well, kids. Corporate America is ALL that matters. They have your money, your mortgage, your car, your TV, your stereo, everything you own, if they want it. They can just call in all your debt at once, and 90% of America would lose almost everything. It's a real threat, and the reality is, Corporate America is destroying this country. They don't care, though.. they don't need to. This country and it's debtor slaves have a use, and once we can't "buy" shit anymore, we'll all end up part of the "corporate army" that wages wars against "bad governments". Corporate Wars will end up being all that's left, in 50 years.. watch. (can't seem to get a left carrot (less than symbol) to actually post, yet it shows up in the preview fine.. bleh)

{You can't use carets because the software thinks it's code. --99}

COMMENT #10 [Permalink]

... leftisbest said on 12/29/2006 @ 3:22 pm PT...





Getting the code would be huge, simply because their code has yet to be reviewed, as far as I know. It would also set a possible precedent for future cases like this. Nonetheless, I think a new election is the ONLY way to go, and frankly, it should be on all paper and hand counted!

COMMENT #11 [Permalink]

... Floridiot said on 12/29/2006 @ 3:23 pm PT...





Another Judge blinded by the phoney 'Corporate Personhood', which is a fairy tale anyway I expected this

COMMENT #12 [Permalink]

... gtash said on 12/29/2006 @ 3:24 pm PT...





I have hammered at length on this: corporations are not the same as a person--so why do they get to be treated the same as a person? It is long past time to reign in corporations by changing the law and revoking some corporate charters.

COMMENT #13 [Permalink]

... Doug said on 12/29/2006 @ 3:45 pm PT...





Does Jennings lawyer blow, surely theres enough information out there to make a decent case. Or is the Judge bought?

COMMENT #14 [Permalink]

... Dan said on 12/29/2006 @ 3:49 pm PT...





There'd been a lot of talk about poor ballot design being one cause for the undervotes. Do we know who designed this ballot? perhaps the ballot designer should be subpeona'd. Also, what technical knowledge, experience, certifications or degress does the Florida elections supervisor posess that allows him/her to certify this type of gear? if none. then the judges argument of conjecture weighs just as heavily in favor of tossing the machines reported results, as is does in the plaintiffs arguments of malfunction. When testing computer memory/motherboard/cpu/input/output, the machine is run thru BILLIONS of cycles which must run flawlessly before that computer is cerified for use in production. How does ES&S do their certification? Do they use propietary testing applications? Or do they run the machine thru a number of simulated election cycles? John Gideon, if you have any input in the process currently underway, please, please, push the plaintiffs to examine the testing procedure and to grill that ballot designer and look real real close at the designer's private connections.

COMMENT #15 [Permalink]

... Dan Ashby said on 12/29/2006 @ 3:55 pm PT...





Once again, we see a judge ruling on electronic voting issues in negligent ignorance of elemental facts about voting machine software; for instance, that the machines have internal calendars, know what day and time it is, and have an "election mode" that operates only on election day. Testing machine behavior outside of election day mode will not tell you anything about how they performed on election day.

What about the memory cards, precinct tally tapes, internal audit logs, and network or modem logs, if any? Were those promptly impounded by court order and examined before they could be erased, altered, or otherwise lost?

A forensic examination of electronic voting machines requires full access to all the code and all the hardware, preserved in exactly the operative relation they were in on election day--and even then, the likelihood is high that self-erasing code executed at closing of the polls has already covered all trace of fraudulent vote-manipulation. Judges have no idea how computers work or how hidden subroutines can self-activate under trigger conditions. Plaintiffs' attorneys are not obtaining discovery orders that meet the essential requirements for meaningful investigation of computer fraud. Newspaper reporters assigned to these stories are no better informed, so their shallow reporting perpetuates the surface illusion that anything meaningful was accomplished in that charade of purported "testing" conducted by the same team that certified Florida's fraud-prone voting machines in the first place. The process guarantees incompetence or complicit coverup, not honest answers.

COMMENT #16 [Permalink]

... Larry Bergan said on 12/29/2006 @ 4:06 pm PT...





What, I ask, do these computer companies have to "protect". Anybody who would try to steal voting machine software to make their software run better would waste less time if they tried to make palaces out of poop. I'm glad Rush Holt has come forward, but nothing has convinced me that we shouldn't be calling for hand-marked, hand-counted ballots for 2008. This proves that the judges and lawyers are going to make sure we can't have verifiable voting.

COMMENT #17 [Permalink]

... Floridiot said on 12/29/2006 @ 4:19 pm PT...





BanVotingMachines.org Support Congressman Kucinich's HB 2600 - only paper ballots & hand counts - no machines - for next presidential election or the next bill if this one has expired

Link

COMMENT #18 [Permalink]

... meso said on 12/29/2006 @ 4:48 pm PT...





time to take our country back from the corporations and the judges that they buy off. Boston Tea Parties around the country and destroy all these damn machines!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

COMMENT #19 [Permalink]

... big dan said on 12/29/2006 @ 5:14 pm PT...





So, this judge is saying, "You're elections are being controlled, and FUCK YOU!!! Too bad!!!" Time to get rid of this judge. The judges are in on it, too.

COMMENT #20 [Permalink]

... Deacon Elurby said on 12/29/2006 @ 6:49 pm PT...





Pay close attention, folks: It isn't the source code that's the problem, except in so far as the code serves an imbedded transceiver, which can be remotely used to alter voting tabulations. Many high-end computers contain transceivers, which certain federal agencies use to spy on economic/political/persona activities of computer users, using satellite links and/or devices closer to home.

COMMENT #21 [Permalink]

... bvac said on 12/29/2006 @ 8:31 pm PT...





#20, thats why I always wear a tinfoil hat when I vote

COMMENT #22 [Permalink]

... Deacon Elurby said on 12/29/2006 @ 9:46 pm PT...





Note to BVAC, regarding comment #21: Why bother to vote? http://whybothertovote.blogspot.com/

COMMENT #23 [Permalink]

... SemperFi said on 12/30/2006 @ 6:57 am PT...





Floridiot #12: Corporate personhood ... a fairy tale... No, it's now a national and global NIGHTMARE because it has become "established law"; as GTASH said, fixing this will require Congressional action and/or Supreme Court rulings (and that is a hell of a long shot with the current Corporate friendly makeup of both bodies).

COMMENT #24 [Permalink]

... HenryClay said on 12/30/2006 @ 9:27 am PT...





I'm not convinced the machines miscounted, or dropped votes for Christine, much as we'd all like to think so. I think the design of the computer page that contained her race inevitably pointed voters to the race for GOVERNOR, which was on the same page (and just below the Buchanan-Jennings election). I'm an educated coherent voter and even I might have skipped the race for Congress based on the page layout. Hate to say it, but we may have another idiotic "butterfly" ballot design here that intentionally or unintentionally led 18,000 Floridians to overlook the little race at the top of the page (why does this keep happening in Florida???) But I hope Christine's fight proves successful.

COMMENT #25 [Permalink]

... Floridiot said on 12/30/2006 @ 10:58 am PT...





#23 If I remember correctly, the SCOTUS tried to take Corporate Personhood up when it came before them in the 1990s, Thom Hartmann wrote a brief to the court about the subject from the 1890s (Link) and the Supremes dropped the case, so it still isn't (link) written law yet, kinda like the income tax law isn't either

COMMENT #26 [Permalink]

... Floridiot said on 12/30/2006 @ 11:53 am PT...





More on the Corporate Personhood mess

Link

COMMENT #27 [Permalink]

... BOB YOUNG said on 12/31/2006 @ 1:46 am PT...





COMMENT #24 HENRYCLAY: You may be correct about this but there clearly is no excuse for this problem. Those who are in charge of our elections can easily prevent ballot design from becoming a problem if they want to. When using a DRE every race should come to the screen in sequence using the entire screen for each numbered race. There should be a set number of buttons for all races aligned vertically down the screen. A list all numbered races could be displayed beside the machine so a voter could easily check out how they were credited with voting in any race by checking out that page option. If there are 15 buttons the party who got the most votes in the previous election could be at position #7. The party who got the second most votes could be put in position #1. The rest of the parties could be sandwiched between these in a similar fashion with the even numbered positions winding up with an option only if there are more than eight parties in the race. The resulting ballot would have the most significant parties sandwiched between the least significant parties and vice versa. The positions of parties on the resulting ballot could be rotated one position clockwise as it is passed on to each of the remaining precincts so that ballot position bias is not a big problem. In any race where there are less than nine parties an over sensitive button would only garner votes from a blank position. Even in larger races over sensitive buttons would only transfer votes from very significant parties to very insignificant parties or vise versa.

The Republic Con Party could not garner votes as they consistently do from the Democratic Party without their button being so sensitive it garners votes from all the positions between them as well. Any shifting of votes because of button sensitivity would thus be highly unlikely to happen and very easy to spot if it did happen. There are ways to prevent or reduce the impact of the “gliches” that are showing up in our elections. The remedies to these problems are very simple if we all wanted to get control of these problems. The big problem is that those who control the outcome of our elections want nothing to do with these very simple solutions. It would cost them the control of the outcome of our elections that they clearly enjoy very much.

COMMENT #28 [Permalink]

... phil said on 1/1/2007 @ 5:03 am PT...





It all has to be up-rooted. ALL OF IT. The Judges

The Senators

The Congress

The Executive They have fucked up ONE too many times. The Electronics in our Elections (The Dictionary should not even define it as ELECTION anymore) are the ROOT of this EVIL. So send a VIRUS to the Corporate Media. EVERY DAY.

COMMENT #29 [Permalink]

... phil said on 1/1/2007 @ 5:04 am PT...





OH Crap. By the way, I forgot to state the simple. The Judge is WRONG.

COMMENT #30 [Permalink]

... phil said on 1/1/2007 @ 5:10 am PT...





Not a computer virus; you fucking know what I mean!

COMMENT #31 [Permalink]

... phil said on 1/1/2007 @ 5:17 am PT...





Otherwise my fellow AMERICANS We will soon be in a nasty unconstitutional catch 22. I hope to GOD (my God Not your _god_) that don't happen. I just want my country back, I want this unconstitutional crap ROLLED BACK. I want COMMON FUCKING SENSE from these "educated retards" DOES ANYONE KNOW WHAT COMMON SENSE IS ANYMORE?! I will say this, "Although you may have the fucking votes, I DID NOT VOTE FOR YOU, AND YOU WERE NOT ELECTED." Can you tell I am pissed off?

COMMENT #32 [Permalink]

... phil said on 1/1/2007 @ 5:18 am PT...





On another though... Let ES&S keep their fucking precious source code (That ANYONE can reverse) But Take ES&S out of our elections. ESS&S ATT&T whatever. they both are unconstitutional.

COMMENT #33 [Permalink]

... phil said on 1/1/2007 @ 5:27 am PT...





Hell maybe you want ME to have a voting machine company? All I got is a few fucked up 8080's, Z80's,8086's, 8088's 1 ea 80186 and A shitload of 286's, a few 80386DX, and 80486DX2, several ... Oh never mind. There's the motorola chips box! Maybe RISC is better?! Want ME to make the lections? Shit I can't SPELL Lection. Let alone PUKE up 0's and 1's on New Years. Want me to puke up a 0? How about a 1? How about I put a 12,000 VAC oon a a +3vDC bus? Oh wait wait wait, the fucking room just filled with DARK GREY SMOKE IN 4 SECONDS.

COMMENT #34 [Permalink]

... phil said on 1/1/2007 @ 5:29 am PT...





Maybe I need a fucking video. Of REALITY for the retards in government and corporate media. Cause we in public ACCESS don't have this problem of visualation Let the ANGER ROLL ON IN 2007.......

COMMENT #35 [Permalink]

... phil said on 1/1/2007 @ 5:33 am PT...





One day the voting machine companies (like me with my CHIP collection, btw I got them from doing propane torches on circuit boards) will have to figure out how to dispose of the toxic waste. (You just heat up the circuit card/board with the torch and slam it against the cement/wood) No wonder I am dying huh?

COMMENT #36 [Permalink]

... oldturk said on 1/3/2007 @ 5:16 am PT...

