Quote Note: In light of the recent official confirmation that Togruta are in active development, I will be suspending this poll until further notice. As we can see, Togruta have remained popular, so hopefully there's a good deal of excitement out there. Odds are, I will either wipe this thread and start over or recreate it completely once we have an official announcement for Togruta. Until then, thanks for your participation!



Hello again faces of the SW:TOR community, new and old. Some of you may remember my old poll gauging community interest in new playable species, and the follow up that took a look at the results. It's been over a year now, and things have been silent on this front, and so I'm bringing back the poll to try to stir up a little interest again and to get a reflection of where we're at now. So without further ado, here's the poll:



Official Statements Regarding New Playable Species:



Spoiler



- Directly addressing the "Chewie/Leia" quote, a year or so before release, if I recall:



Quote: Hey Folks,



Sorry for the confusion. Booth chat is, let's be clear, not an official information release. What you got was one line of an extended conversation that was had between me and one of the players at the booth. We started talking about what made a hero in Star Wars and then, once that was clear, there were some jokes about what the romances would look like had we gone for the toybox approach of letting you play anything in the action figure line. That's the part of the conversation the quote came from.



The first part was merely a repetition of something we've said before. Namely that lead characters in an RPG must be something the player can relate to. There has never been a movie or major Star Wars series with a complete freak job as the lead and that's because dramatically it doesn't work. We don't understand what it means to be a giant lizard or a droid or a walking ball of jelly. We love the weird characters but they are always the sidekicks, not the emotional connection in the movie. To do an RPG that way every NPC you ran into would have to react to you depending on their own cultural bias and the entire "into the strange" adventure that is Star Wars would be lost as you would be the strangest thing in the room. People would constantly be asking you for information about your weird species and their emotional content that the vast majority of players simply wouldn't have and their ability to really BE this character would be nil.



So whether it's Dragon Age, Mass Effect or The Old Republic, PCs are near enough to humans for us to crawl into their skin. They have generally understandable facial expressions, they don't look ludicrous speaking the basic language, they can interact with the rest of the galaxy without a constant "what the heck?" reaction from the NPCs. The freaks, the droids, the weird that we get to know and learn about--that's where our companions come in.



It's okay to turn to your companions and say "What are you supposed to be?" It's not okay to look in the mirror and say that.



In the future I can see a day where we would do a Trandoshan or Wookiee type story but it would have to be just that. Not a simple graphic swap where now your smuggler is a giant lizard man and nobody notices but a full class story where you learn what it means to be this strange alien and deal with the rest of the galaxy and their reactions. For the present, however, our heroes are our projections of self, headed into a galaxy of wonders and adventures.



I know that this isn't what some people want but I hope it helps them understand that game design isn't simply throwing random features into a game because they seem cool. You have to have a goal, a final holistic ideal that you're trying to hit. The Old Republic is, and always has been, about starring in your own version of a Star Wars movie. Not playing a background character from scene 5, not about living a humdrum day to day existence in the Star Wars worlds (there are no refreshers--sorry!) and not about pulling out the extended action figure line and getting to use it as virtual costume party. None of these are, by themselves, bad goals and could absolutely be fun in a very different sort of game. But in TOR they would work directly against what we were trying to achieve.



So did we limit species choice for romances? No. Did we limit them for our goal of bringing cinematic storytelling and the dream of living the Star Wars movies to the MMO space? Absolutely.



Hope that helps!



Daniel

Quote: You talked yesterday about new species that are playable…



The Cathar is the first one, and what we’re going to start doing is really looking at how much interest there is in species. The Cathar will be the first we’re rolling out as they’ve always been popular. We have the stuff, and we know we wanted to do them. After that the hope is if people say “Oh yeah, this is really exciting here. We want to do this.” Then it becomes open to the community and we’ll say, “Hey, ok folks, what do you really want?” I think it’ll be an interesting plan. I think it’ll be really interesting to put the negatives right out there for people to see. Understand that if you demand a species that does not speak English and is made out of Jello, these are going to be the problems that it brings to you. And if people say “that’s what we want more than anything else,” then at this point it is community power.



Quote: CelCawdro: What are your long-term plans for implementing playable species? Are Cathar merely the first of semi-regular species additions?



Daniel: Like all of our ongoing content updates, we’ll release Cathar into the wild and see how they perform. If new species are clearly popular we’ll keep them coming! Quote: CelCawdro: If Cathar are successful, what kinds of species can we expect to see? May we see anything beyond the current selection of near-humans? What is the process behind selecting new species and gauging community interest?



Daniel Erickson (Lead Game Designer): We’d like to open the selection of future species to the community as a whole with clear positives and negatives provided for each selection. That way we can go a bit further afield in our species selection.



DamionSchubert Quote: Originally Posted by We probably would never make a non-English speaking player race. I know it seems attractive, but simply put, hearing alien for way too long drives you crazy. An early build of the game had Tython populated by a race other than Twi'leks, and after about the fourth quest, you want to put a fist through your monitor.



So any races we add in the future will need to plausibly be able to speak basic. DamionSchubert Quote: Originally Posted by Making an alien race fully human playable is a huge amount of work, at least if you want to give players the level of customization options that they have come to expect. It takes a lot of work to make all of the customization options work together and look good, while still ensuring people still can find looks that are unique to each other.



The Togruta provide a unique problem in this regard, in regards to the tentacles. Yes, the Twi'leks have tentacles too, but they are typically behind the player, whereas the Togruta's canonically drape across the front of the character. This means that they struggle to work with the existing animations and gear without clipping -- indeed, the first screenshot you see for Ashara if you google her is one with her chin ridiculously clipping through her tentacle. While this may be acceptable for a companion who is frequently offscreen while fighting, or NPCs who we can dress and pose carefully, its much more problematic for player characters who need to be able to wear anything and perform any animation and still look good. (The Twi'leks clip somewhat as well, but much art was tweaked to make this a lot less prevalent than it otherwise would have been)



I'm not trying to pour cold water in the species discussion. Quite the opposite - if the Cathar do well, I hope to expand your options even more, and we should know the answer to that 'soonish'. I just don't want anyone to think that just because an alien is currently in the game as an NPC, that it is trivial to turn it into player art -- it's a TON of work to do that, and do it well. For the interest of those who share my enthusiasm for this topic, I thought I'd add a few developer quotes:- Directly addressing the "Chewie/Leia" quote, a year or so before release, if I recall:- From Darth Hater, E3 2012- From the Community Q&A- From the "Next two playable races" thread:

Hello, fellow forumites. With the announcement of a new playable species (Cathar) coming to grace our beloved SW:TOR, I've decided to put together a rather structured and clutter-free poll to aid BioWare in seeing which species the community desires more, and which are most likely to be a fit for SW:TOR. What makes this poll different from the dozens that have come and gone? Three aspects:



1. Every person gets three votes. In order you vote, you must list your desired species in descending order. Example, my vote:



1. Kel Dor

2. Nautolan

3. Mon Calamari



Here's the interesting part - going by my example, Kel Dor gets three votes, Nautolan gets two, and Mon Cals get a single vote. This ensures that species that people have an interest in, even if it isn't their primary favourite, will still be accounted for in this poll. And no voting for the same species more than once.



2. Species will be segregated by type. Near-humans (ie. Kiffar, Zeltron), humanoids (ie. Kel Dor, Nautolan), extreme humanoids (ie. Jawas, Wookiees), and non-humanoids (ie. Ithorians, Chevin) will all get their own category. Going by BioWare's statements and the current species selection, we can be assured that they will give preference to the former in that list rather than the latter, for better or worse. Thus, these categories will be visually separated. Note that I will only count near-humans and humanoids for the top five - the other categories will still be tracked for reference, but BioWare has shown an inclination towards the most humanlike species and these species can easily utilize existing assets.



Note: Species that would be problematic if they were to be implemented, due to canon or the rules governing it, will be marked with a red asterisk ( * ). Likewise, if a species cannot plausibly utilize the current class voiceovers, they will be marked with a yellow asterisk ( * ).



3. A species requires five separate posters to vote for it to be listed. Again, this will ensure that this list is as free from clutter as possible. A lot of people have a soft spot for an obscure species, but in order for them to be implemented, they need to have a wide range appeal. If everyone can simply toss their obscure reference on the list, its usefulness is diminished.



Overall Top Five



1. Togruta

2. Nautolan

3. Kel Dor

4. Zeltron

5. Kaleesh





Near-Human



26 - Zeltron

17 - Voss

12 - Arkanian

11 - Echani

10 - Falleen



Humanoid



111 - Togruta

64 - Nautolan

37 - Kel Dor

22 - Kaleesh

19 - Mon Calamari

18 - Devaronian



Extreme Humanoid



19 - Bothan

11 - Selkath

11 - Trandoshan



Non-Humanoid



Pending More Votes



Spoiler





3 - Chagrian (1)

3 - Selonian (2)

4 - Kiffar (3)

7 - Hapan (3)

1 - Massassi (1)

4 - Cerean (2)

1 - Pantoran (1)

1 - Ongree (1)

4 - Weequay (3)

3 - Verpine (1)

3 - Sephi (1)

5 - Jawa (3)

5 - Ithorian (2)

2 - Tchuukthai (1)

1 - Toydarian (1)

3 - Noghri (1)

2 - B'omarr Monk (1)

8 - Nikto (3)

2 - Draethos (1)

1 - Gen'Dai (1)

3 - Rodian (3)

1 - Gran (1)

2 - Aqualish (1)

1 - Sarkhai (1)

1 - Hutt (1)

3 - Nagai (1)

3 - Lepi (1)

2 - Drall (1)

1 - K'lor'slug (1)

3 - Barabel (1)

2 - Shistavanen (1)

1 - Yinchorri (1)

1 - Duros (1)

2 - Droid (1)

1 - Codru-Ji

2 - Iktotchi

1 - Amaran (1)

1 - Wookiee (1)

3 - Sullustan (1)

2 - Bith (1)

2 - Gormak (1)







Analysis of Original Poll



Spoiler Introduction and Context



Hello again, my fellow forumites. It's been nearly a year since I started my Community Desire for Species poll, and as I promised, now that Cathar have hit the live servers I thought I'd give a little commentary to the results and process of that thread. I may continue to update it, but this commentary concerns its current state only. Also, please forgive the self-important titling - my vision isn't the greatest, so just as I post in a different colour to better pick out posts that are replying to me directly, I've stuck my forum name into the titles of both of these threads so I can pick it out of a list more quickly.









The Criteria



Firstly, I'd like to reiterate the three prerequisite qualities that I was looking for before I dubbed them "plausible." In order for a species to be considered likely for implementation, that species must have:



An Average Humanoid Body Plan : Subsequent species need to be able to utilize the existing body types: at least one (ie. Trandoshans and body type 3), but the more, the better (ie. virtually every species that made the Humanoid category). If the entire aesthetic gear system needs to be rethought for a single species, if new assets need to be created, it is unreasonable to expect that species to be implemented over species that are far less intensive and would require less upkeep.



The Ability of the Entire Species to Speak Basic Fluently : It goes without saying (but I'm going to say it, anyway) that SW:TOR is a story-based, fully voiced MMO. That is the strength of this entry into the genre, that is what sets it apart from its competitors. It is unreasonable to expect BioWare to not play to this strength when considering additional species. Likewise, just because there was that one member of the species that had a speech impediment or a utilized a vocabulator, it doesn't mean that the species speaks Basic as a whole.



A Lack of Contradiction With the Established Rules of the Star Wars Universe : Forthcoming species need to be in agreement with the established rules of the universe - both in-universe and otherwise. For example, if Jawas or Tusken Raiders were introduced into the galaxy-at-large en masse, this would contradict the rules established for the species - they are tied to a specific planet. Although a few individuals may make their way offworld, the players cannot be the exception to the rule - the species selected to be playable need to exemplify the any general example of the species they belong to.







The Results



As I was running the poll, I kept an overall Top Five running of plausible selections. For the purposes of this post, I'll expand that list to a Top Ten and furthermore, a Top Thirty of all votes combined. Overall, votes were cast for 103 species.





Top Ten Plausible Species



Togruta Nautolan Kel Dor Rodian Mon Calamari Kaleesh Zeltron Bothan Devaronian Weequay

Top Thirty Overall



Togruta Nautolan Kel Dor Voss Wookiee Jawa Trandoshan Rodian Droid Mon Calamari Kaleesh Zeltron Bothan Devaronian Ithorian Weequay Selkath Echani Yoda's species Ewok Falleen Chagrian Gamorrean Duros Selonian Sullustan Shistavanen Nikto Gormak Gand





The Difficulties



Secondly, I'm going to go through a few of the problems that we've encountered, naming those problems aptly after a species that best exemplifies the issue, followed by a recommendation detailing a possible solution or workaround for these obstacles.







The Togruta



The Issue : This particular species highlights a problem that was mentioned by BioWare a few months ago: clipping. Twi'lek have had pretty negative feedback since their implementation because of this, and it has made BioWare hesitant to include species with "extraneous biology" that may interfere with the existing models for the bodies. Because of this, even with overwhelming popularity, BioWare remains hesitant to implement these types of species because of the inevitable backlash that will stem from the clipping issues.



Recommendation : Well, most obviously, fix the clipping. But since the selection of engine seems to mean that clipping issues aren't going away anytime soon, if ever, I'll offer a secondary response - one that was even endorsed by BioWare on multiple occasions. Go to the community, tell them up front that if these species are implemented there are going to be clipping issues, and ask them if they're willing to deal with those niggling issues if it means that can play as these species. Get the community involved, have them take on the responsibility, and the reaction to clipping issues will be far less negative. There is a demand here, and a fear of backlash shouldn't hold them back.





The Voss



The Issue : Voss exemplify a species that is incredibly popular with players, one that speaks Basic fluently, and could easily utilize existing character creation assets. There's only one problem - if they were to me implemented in the same way that Cathar were, they would violate the lore pretty badly and set up quite a few awkward situations for new players. It doesn't make sense for a Voss to make what is essentially first contact with the Voss, nor does it make sense for that Voss to attempt to bring that species into the greater galaxy when he is already a member of that species that is already participating in the greater galaxy. The demand for them obviously comes from players who have experienced the content involving that species - without that context, however, they would make little sense to new players.



Recommendation : Quite simple, actually - add a Legacy level requirement to the unlock that cannot be subverted with extra Cartel Coins. Maybe even add an achievement requirement, signifying that the player has recruited this species into their Legacy by completing the planetary questlines. Reneging on my requirement three a little, a species that is a little problematic with the lore can be added without issue as long as their addition is contextualized in-game, firstly.





The Wookiee



The Issue : Another hugely popular species, but it violates every single rule for plausibly fitting into the established framework. They would require entirely new character creation assets, they would completely void the fully-voiced nature of the player character, and their status as a freaking Wookiee would be oddly overlooked by those NPCs that the player interacts with. (I would also add the "No more Wookiee Jedi rule, but who knows how that is holding up with Disney's recent acquisition?)



Recommendation : These kinds of species are obviously important to players. Vitas did something I liked here when he recommended that some species are better suited to be companions rather than player characters (although I am generally more uptight and less idealistic when looking at plausibility). My solution would be three-fold: Firstly, keep these species in mind when adding additional companions. Secondly, allow players to use a companion of a different class if they've unlocked that species for their legacy. Once Bowdaar swears to serve my legacy on my Smuggler, and Blizz on my Bounty Hunter, they should be able to be used by my Sith Warrior who is also a part of that legacy. Thirdly, expand the customization options for these species. If we'll never be able to play as them, at least acknowledge our desire by allowing them to follow us around on our adventures, no matter our character.





The Shistavanen



The Issue : There are quite a few species in the Star Wars universe that have been, shall we say, less-than-reliably depicted in a consistent manner. Shistavanen exemplify this - we've seen them depicted as barely-bipedal wolves, as some guy in a bad Wolfman mask, and everything in between. Some of these depictions lend themselves well to a new playable species, some of them don't.



Recommendation : Pull a Cathar and err on the side of "humanoid." If a species has been depicted in a manner that would lend itself well to existing character creation assets, use that depiction and run with it. It's better that we have access to these species at all than to leave them out because people might not like the chosen manifestation. Like The Togruta , this is also something that should be discussed with the community.





The Zeltron



The Issue : They're just pink humans. I've sure everyone has seen the old complaint that has been around since the playable species roster was first made public knowledge: "We just have humans, green humans, red humans, blue humans, blind humans, spiked humans, cybernetic humans, tattooed bald humans and tentacle-hair humans." While many near-humans species are popular, and I know that the following statement is pretty subjective, I believe that to implement a new species as another recoloured human is a wasted opportunity.



Recommendation : Expand the creation options for humans (as many of the "species" being suggested are indeed humans, just of a different culture, such as Echani and Kiffar), and/or create a generalized "near-human" species. The latter would pretty much take all of the existing options that are already present for humans, but add a simple and important slider: "Near-human features." Examples of things included on this slider could include Zeltron pink, Kiffar tattoos, Anzati tentacles and more. Keeping them on the same slider ensures that players are unable to "mix and match" to create their own unique species - every option on that slider could be a different species, present in canon, and since they're so similar to baseline humans, that is the only distinction needed.





The Kel Dor - Bonus



The Issue : This particular response is intended more for the community than it is for BioWare, themselves. The issue being the so-called "romance" issue. Players have often discredited species such as Kel Dor and Rodians because BioWare said that species that you can't imagine in a romance won't be considered. As I've pointed out many times, that particular statement was also discredited the day after it was made. Read here: Spoiler Quote: Hey Folks,



Sorry for the confusion. Booth chat is, let's be clear, not an official information release. What you got was one line of an extended conversation that was had between me and one of the players at the booth. We started talking about what made a hero in Star Wars and then, once that was clear, there were some jokes about what the romances would look like had we gone for the toybox approach of letting you play anything in the action figure line. That's the part of the conversation the quote came from.



The first part was merely a repetition of something we've said before. Namely that lead characters in an RPG must be something the player can relate to. There has never been a movie or major Star Wars series with a complete freak job as the lead and that's because dramatically it doesn't work. We don't understand what it means to be a giant lizard or a droid or a walking ball of jelly. We love the weird characters but they are always the sidekicks, not the emotional connection in the movie. To do an RPG that way every NPC you ran into would have to react to you depending on their own cultural bias and the entire "into the strange" adventure that is Star Wars would be lost as you would be the strangest thing in the room. People would constantly be asking you for information about your weird species and their emotional content that the vast majority of players simply wouldn't have and their ability to really BE this character would be nil.



So whether it's Dragon Age, Mass Effect or The Old Republic, PCs are near enough to humans for us to crawl into their skin. They have generally understandable facial expressions, they don't look ludicrous speaking the basic language, they can interact with the rest of the galaxy without a constant "what the heck?" reaction from the NPCs. The freaks, the droids, the weird that we get to know and learn about--that's where our companions come in.



It's okay to turn to your companions and say "What are you supposed to be?" It's not okay to look in the mirror and say that.



In the future I can see a day where we would do a Trandoshan or Wookiee type story but it would have to be just that. Not a simple graphic swap where now your smuggler is a giant lizard man and nobody notices but a full class story where you learn what it means to be this strange alien and deal with the rest of the galaxy and their reactions. For the present, however, our heroes are our projections of self, headed into a galaxy of wonders and adventures.



I know that this isn't what some people want but I hope it helps them understand that game design isn't simply throwing random features into a game because they seem cool. You have to have a goal, a final holistic ideal that you're trying to hit. The Old Republic is, and always has been, about starring in your own version of a Star Wars movie. Not playing a background character from scene 5, not about living a humdrum day to day existence in the Star Wars worlds (there are no refreshers--sorry!) and not about pulling out the extended action figure line and getting to use it as virtual costume party. None of these are, by themselves, bad goals and could absolutely be fun in a very different sort of game. But in TOR they would work directly against what we were trying to achieve.



So did we limit species choice for romances? No. Did we limit them for our goal of bringing cinematic storytelling and the dream of living the Star Wars movies to the MMO space? Absolutely.



Hope that helps!



Daniel



Recommendation : As stated above, BioWare should simply revisit this issue to clarify their stance. While not an obstacle to implementing a playable species, it is definitely an obstacle to any discussion on the subject when these kinds of species are mentioned.









The Advice



Lastly, I'd just like to offer my brief opinion on where I think BioWare should go from here. Not dictating terms, but just what I believe would be a logical course of action given my experience with this process.





Examine the Top Species Carefully



It is nothing but good news for BioWare that the top three overall species are also the top three most plausible choices. The desire for these species is obvious, and so is their suitability for SW:TOR. Verify my results independently if you feel the need to, but I feel that the community has spoken very strongly about the next few species that should be occupying this particular facet of development for the near future.





Involve the Community



The community has made it very clear what they want. BioWare needs to be forthcoming with exactly what players are going to get, and ask them about things that the development team might be unsure of. Is clipping unavoidable for Nautolans? Would Kel Dor need to have permanent voice modulation? Should Mon Cal wear have the ability to show their gloves or not? We cannot wait to express our opinions to you, for good or (as you know too well) for ill. Just know that there will always be people that are unsatisfied - going ahead and engaging the community anyway has two benefits: firstly, you can defend your decision as one made by the community itself, and secondly, by not engaging with us, you are punishing many people because of a vocal few. Allow collaboration in this process.





Act Fast



I doubt that there are any players or developers out there that are satisfied with the amount of time it took to get Cathar on to live servers. As it was the first time a species was being added, however, I think the majority of the community is understanding - the kinks in the process needed to be worked out, and the conversion to the free-to-play model was probably more than a little disruptive. However, if the next species has a turnaround time of another year, I'm thinking that the community is going to be far less understanding and far less optimistic regarding the entire process of adding more playable species. But either way, refer back to my first piece of advice - be open with your players. If things are taking longer than anticipated, tell us. The worst way you can tell us about a delay is by letting that delay happen. If you can't be punctual, at least be transparent.





Don't Forget About the Core Game



I alluded to this a little when I was addressing The Voss problem - remember that the Cartel Market isn't the only avenue of progress in SW:TOR. From the Legacy system to PvP level to achievements to crafting, there are dozens of other ways that you can engage the community with this process. Playable species can also be used as a reward for enjoying various facets of the game and a justification for more-offbeat choices, even if they are ultimately unlocked with one's wallet.





Take Risks Eventually



BioWare has already started with a very cautious approach - Cathar are iconic to the era and to BioWare itself, they are a popular species, and they avoided the technical challenges that would have been an issue with species with more "exotic" biology. This was a very good choice. And I encourage BioWare to stick to this formula for a little while, but making sure they test the water in different ways with each passing species. Eventually, though, take the leap with something more unusual - see how people react to a choice that doesn't utilize existing assets, such as Droids or Ithorians. See if people can actually tolerate listening to Huttese during the leveling experience. Test your boundaries. Again, I wouldn't expect to see this kind of experimentation until new species are routine and a well-worn path. But I do hope to see it, at some point. There are a lot of great species out there that don't necessarily fit the mold provided by the game - don't be afraid to break that mold, eventually.











In Conclusion



Firstly, thanks to everyone that made it through the entire post. I realize it's quite long, but I hope I formatted and phrased everything well enough to make the read tolerable. Secondly, thanks to everyone who participated in my poll, whether it be simply casting a vote or participating in discussion and debate until the wee hours of the morning. Every one of you made this an enjoyable process over the past year, and I cannot express my gratitude for the continued support I received enough. The future is looking pretty bright for our area of interest, and I hope that I was able to provide a little direction with my efforts - again, direction that is entirely owing to the feedback I received from the community.



Thanks again to everyone who participated previously, and I hope to see your takes on the results in the following posts. Faces new and old, let's see what you have to say.





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