Public Safety Minister Bill Blair says government and police officials have continued "a very respectful dialogue" with Wet'suwet'en hereditary chiefs about ongoing rail blockades and protests against the Coastal Gaslink pipeline, despite accusations that police are instead increasing harassment of the Wet'suwet'en people.

RCMP in British Columbia moved its officers from an outpost on Wet'suwet'en territory to a nearby detachment in Houston on Friday, but won't stop patrolling the area.

Wet'suwet'en Hereditary Chief Woos was unmoved by the olive branch, and has said that police have instead increased arrests and surveillance of people on Wet'suwet'en territory.

"We will not talk with the government until the RCMP are completely out of our territorial land. We're not going to talk with a gun pointed at our heads. That's not the way to do it," Woos told Power & Politics host Vassy Kapelos on Friday.

Cross Country Checkup host Duncan McCue spoke with Blair about the hereditary chiefs' demands and what role the RCMP may play in Prime Minister Justin Trudeau's calls for an end to the blockades.

Here is part of their conversation.

Are the claims we just heard from Chief Woos accurate?

No sir, they're not. I will tell you that on Wednesday evening, the commanding officer of the RCMP, Deputy Commissioner Strachan, sent a letter to the hereditary chiefs....

On Wednesday of last week, the RCMP commissioner communicated to them that they were, in fact, going to do as the hereditary chiefs had requested: decommission and remove themselves from that site, and that they would henceforth deploy their officers from a nearby town, which is Houston.

That work began immediately, and I will tell you there was also a 90-minute conversation between the RCMP, representatives of the B.C. government and Coastal GasLink and hereditary chiefs on Friday evening.... There has been a very respectful dialogue.

There is no place in Canada that can be deprived of the service and protection of the police. - Public Safety Minister Bill Blair

Chief Woos is saying that there was increased surveillance and monitoring of the Wet'suwet'en people.

We did reach out to the B.C. RCMP about whether they vacated their community industry safety office along the Morice West Forest Service Road. Let me read the statement that they [sent], in part: The CISO [Community Industry Safety Office] has a series of temporary buildings and it's fenced with a gate. The buildings are locked, the gate has been closed and locked. Patrols are continuing in the area."

Did you jump the gun, Minister Blair, when you stated this week that the RCMP have met Wet'suwet'en demands?

No, I did not. The demand was actually that they would close that office, and as that release indicates, they've done so, and that they would redeploy their officers from Houston. That's exactly what we said. There was no jumping of any guns.

Wet'suwet'en Hereditary Chief Woos says there will be no talks on ending rail blockades until the RCMP leaves their territory and all work on a natural gas pipeline ceases. 1:35

On Friday, Chief Woos said the term "out means out" when he called for the RCMP to leave Wet'suwet'en land. Is that not to say that the RCMP aren't welcome in Houston either?

No. Let me be very clear. There is no place in Canada that can be deprived of the service and protection of the police. The police have a responsibility in every place in Canada to uphold the rule of law.

The actual request of the hereditary chiefs was to remove that facility and the deployment from the roadway. That's been done. That's exactly what ... the RCMP were asked to do, and they did exactly what they said they were going to do.

[Trudeau] had in fact said the barricades must come down now. So as public safety minister, how do you deliver on the word "now?"

There are laws in place and there is a court injunction that issues authority and direction to the police of local jurisdiction.

In Tyendinaga for example, that's the Ontario Provincial Police, and they don't answer to the federal government. They actually answer to the minister of community safety in the province of Ontario.

They can't choose not to enforce that injunction, but they can determine, solely at their discretion, when and how. And I know their policies and procedures, and I know those officers. They are going to do everything as we have done to resolve this peaceably.

Supporters of the Wet'suwet'en hereditary chiefs and who oppose the Costal Gaslink pipeline, work on a support camp just outside of Gidimt'en checkpoint near Houston B.C., on Jan. 9, 2020. The Wet'suwet'en peoples are occupying their land and trying to prevent a pipeline from going through it. (Jason Franson/The Canadian Press)

But the people on those barricades have to know the impact that they're having on Canadians. And I don't think they intend to harm Canadians. I don't think they intend that people will lose their livelihoods, or that their safety would be put at risk.

And so it's very important that those barricades come down, that rail service be resumed. And I want to assure everyone—

But what position have the police been put in—

Duncan, hang on, this is an important statement.

Go ahead.

I want, and I think it's very important, to reassure them, that our government remains committed to maintaining and continuing the hard work and the dialogue of the nation-to-nation reconciliation agenda, and to continue to work with the hereditary chiefs and Indigenous leadership right across the country, to continue to do important work that we have been undertaking for the last four years to continue on the path of reconciliation.

David Kelly holds a banner over his head as he looks at counter-demonstrators who gathered at the site of a partial rail blockade that was erected in Saskatoon's Pleasant Hill neighbourhood on Feb. 22, 2020. (Morgan Modjeski/CBC)

Can I ask you about the position that the police force is now in, though?

You mentioned the OPP. I mean, let's talk about the 1995 occupation of Ipperwash Provincial Park. Dudley George, an unarmed protester, [was] shot and killed by a police sniper.

There was an inquiry that set out clear guidelines for police responses to Aboriginal critical incidents, saying that every effort should be used to minimize the use of force.

The prime minister has said quite clearly the barricades need to come down now. So how are the police supposed to minimize the use of force and act as peacekeepers in the situation that they're in now?

Duncan, as you know, I was a police officer for 39 years and I have actually attended quite a number of these protests, and I know exactly what that framework for dealing with critical Aboriginal incidents says, and how the police have been trained to respond.

They are absolutely committed to resolving this peaceably as have we, in all of our discussion....

The prime minister's direction was not to the police, and we've been crystal clear on this. We are not giving direction to the police. That's not the law in this country.

Blair speaks to reporters, alongside Minister of Indigenous Services Marc Miller and Minister of Crown-Indigenous Relations Carolyn Bennett, on Parliament Hill in Ottawa on Feb. 20, 2020 (Sean Kilpatrick/The Canadian Press)

The Conservative Party says that under the RCMP act, that you as the minister of public safety have the authority to direct the RCMP, as long as it is not interference in the law enforcement function.

Your government's said that they won't do that. Why not?

If I may suggest Duncan, they are being completely disingenuous. Because although the word "direct" does appear in Section 5 of the RCMP Act, that word has been subject to considerable review, examination and comment by the Supreme Court. And the Supreme Court has been very, very clear what the limits of that direction can be.

And, for example, it says very clearly that I do not have the authority to direct the police to conduct an investigation, to lay a charge. I cannot correct them in their deployments or in their operations.

It's a very, very clear articulation of the law. I think it's a little disingenuous for anyone to pick a word out of a regulation and suggest to people that they know what it means.

Written by Jonathan Ore. Interview produced by Richard Raycraft and Emily Senger.

This Q&A has been edited for length and clarity. To hear the full interview, download our podcast or click Listen above.