sgrizzle

T-Town Elder



Offline



Posts: 16038





Inconceivable!





Kung Fu TreacheryT-Town ElderPosts: 16038Inconceivable! Promenade: Thinking outside the (BIG) Box « on: May 06, 2017, 04:47:42 pm »



Since years ago we had the trend of closing open-air shopping areas and making them into malls, I wondered if we could do the opposite. Here's my idea:





Tear down the north parking garage, theater, and most of the central mall. Save some infrastructure and structure for phase 2:





1. Sell/lease the space where the north garage was for outparcels.

2. Turn the remaining Mervyn's space into shared/reconfigurable office suites. 8x8 rooms with free wifi and up, things like that. Most commercial office space these days is primarily large spaces and long leases.

3. Turn the former Macy's space into a year-round farmer's market. Maybe start first floor only at first. As long as the space can meet foodservice code, lots of growers and upstart bakers and makers could make money off of a booth here. The parking garage provides ample convenient parking for getting stuff to/from cars in all weather.

4. Replace on what was the south half of promenade mall (food court side) create an open air market for vendors who need a cheaper space or less hours. Only open in good weather, and maybe weekends. Also add a fountain or other large feature in this area as this is the new main entrance of the center.

5. On what was the theater side, created indoor spaces which face south. This is for people who want something even more permanent that the farmer's market. Permanent, independent retail. Lease could include part of the open air space as well for fair weather dining or drinks. This side could even be made two story at some point.



These concepts could expand to the Dillards and JCPenny spaces if those businesses go and cannot be replaced with similar.



For those who haven't been recently, Promenade seems to be clearly circling a drain. They lost 2 of 4 anchors, and then replaced half of one. Only about a dozen major chains left in the central mall area, most of the shops are local and many of them don't appear to be the kind of businesses who look to be able to afford normal retail rent. Last time I went, I passed three non-working elevators and the north parking garage looked to be not far away from a story on being closed due to safety issues. The theater is also seemingly unable to compete with AMC across the street.Since years ago we had the trend of closing open-air shopping areas and making them into malls, I wondered if we could do the opposite. Here's my idea:Tear down the north parking garage, theater, and most of the central mall. Save some infrastructure and structure for phase 2:1. Sell/lease the space where the north garage was for outparcels.2. Turn the remaining Mervyn's space into shared/reconfigurable office suites. 8x8 rooms with free wifi and up, things like that. Most commercial office space these days is primarily large spaces and long leases.3. Turn the former Macy's space into a year-round farmer's market. Maybe start first floor only at first. As long as the space can meet foodservice code, lots of growers and upstart bakers and makers could make money off of a booth here. The parking garage provides ample convenient parking for getting stuff to/from cars in all weather.4. Replace on what was the south half of promenade mall (food court side) create an open air market for vendors who need a cheaper space or less hours. Only open in good weather, and maybe weekends. Also add a fountain or other large feature in this area as this is the new main entrance of the center.5. On what was the theater side, created indoor spaces which face south. This is for people who want something even more permanent that the farmer's market. Permanent, independent retail. Lease could include part of the open air space as well for fair weather dining or drinks. This side could even be made two story at some point.These concepts could expand to the Dillards and JCPenny spaces if those businesses go and cannot be replaced with similar. Logged

Conan71

T-Town Elder



Offline



Posts: 29324







Recovering RepublicanT-Town ElderPosts: 29324 Re: Promenade: Thinking outside the (BIG) Box « Reply #1 on: May 07, 2017, 08:18:15 am » I cant imagine JCP and Dillard's are long for the world with the way national retail trends are going.



I like your remake of The Promenade but the open air market would need to be policed pretty well by managers to keep it from looking like a flea market or Expo Square craft show.



Some of the ideas previously floated about expanding OU Shusterman via a sky bridge are also not a bad adaptive re-use as well. Logged "It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first -Ronald Reagan

erfalf



Offline



Posts: 2080







City FatherPosts: 2080 Re: Promenade: Thinking outside the (BIG) Box « Reply #2 on: May 08, 2017, 06:49:33 am » Does Shusterman really need any more space. I figure they probably have the resources (and land available) to expand on their already existing footprint? Logged "Trust but Verify." - The Gipper

SXSW



Online



Posts: 4172





City FatherPosts: 4172 Re: Promenade: Thinking outside the (BIG) Box « Reply #3 on: May 08, 2017, 10:42:07 am »

Old Mall Site





Site Plan





Images











The other is Downtown Westminster where the Westminster Mall used to be before they tore it down a couple years ago. It's now in the beginning stages of being turned into a similar mixed-use area. Some images:



Old Mall Site





New Plans







There are two good examples for Promenade to potentially follow in the Denver area. One is Belmar in Lakewood where an indoor mall was completed demolished so they could restore the street grid and create a "downtown core" with retail, office and residential. There are some big boxes on the periphery including a Target, Dick's Sporting Goods, Whole Foods and a couple others but it's mostly small-format chain retail/restaurants and a movie theater.Old Mall SiteSite PlanImagesThe other is Downtown Westminster where the Westminster Mall used to be before they tore it down a couple years ago. It's now in the beginning stages of being turned into a similar mixed-use area. Some images:Old Mall SiteNew Plans « Last Edit: May 08, 2017, 10:46:55 am by SXSW » Logged

sgrizzle

T-Town Elder



Offline



Posts: 16038





Inconceivable!





Kung Fu TreacheryT-Town ElderPosts: 16038Inconceivable! Re: Promenade: Thinking outside the (BIG) Box « Reply #4 on: May 08, 2017, 04:03:04 pm » Good examples. It would be nice if Promenade and Southroads were controlled by one forward-thinking entity, especially with that story about Southroads being full of empty space. Add a parking garage or two a connector across 41st, some apartments and a hotel or two. Logged

SXSW



Online



Posts: 4172





City FatherPosts: 4172 Re: Promenade: Thinking outside the (BIG) Box « Reply #6 on: May 09, 2017, 10:30:25 am » Quote from: erfalf on May 08, 2017, 06:49:33 am Does Shusterman really need any more space. I figure they probably have the resources (and land available) to expand on their already existing footprint?



I don't think OU needs any academic space across Yale but housing targeting their students could be something they could get behind.



The key here would be connecting the campus and surrounding neighborhood to whatever is developed. Extending 42nd west to Yale would be ideal though the steep grade near the intersection could complicate things. Extending Braden north to 41st and adding a light could help with connectivity to Southroads.



The large garage at 43rd & Darlington could easily remain and be worked around. I don't think OU needs any academic space across Yale but housing targeting their students could be something they could get behind.The key here would be connecting the campus and surrounding neighborhood to whatever is developed. Extending 42nd west to Yale would be ideal though the steep grade near the intersection could complicate things. Extending Braden north to 41st and adding a light could help with connectivity to Southroads.The large garage at 43rd & Darlington could easily remain and be worked around. Logged

Conan71

T-Town Elder



Offline



Posts: 29324







Recovering RepublicanT-Town ElderPosts: 29324 Re: Promenade: Thinking outside the (BIG) Box « Reply #7 on: May 09, 2017, 11:10:03 am » Quote from: SXSW on May 09, 2017, 10:30:25 am I don't think OU needs any academic space across Yale but housing targeting their students could be something they could get behind.



The key here would be connecting the campus and surrounding neighborhood to whatever is developed. Extending 42nd west to Yale would be ideal though the steep grade near the intersection could complicate things. Extending Braden north to 41st and adding a light could help with connectivity to Southroads.



The large garage at 43rd & Darlington could easily remain and be worked around.



Considering this is designed as car-centric suburban, Id have to disagree that extending Braden or 42nd would be beneficial to the area. The last thing 41st needs between Yale & Sheridan is another traffic light and traffic trying to turn from an alignment of 42nd would be somewhat problematic in morning, evening, or lunch rush. I think the lights at Darlington and 43rd work well now.



Without a complete nuke and re-pave, theres no real way to make the area more pedestrian friendly if that was the goal. Considering this is designed as car-centric suburban, Id have to disagree that extending Braden or 42nd would be beneficial to the area. The last thing 41st needs between Yale & Sheridan is another traffic light and traffic trying to turn from an alignment of 42nd would be somewhat problematic in morning, evening, or lunch rush. I think the lights at Darlington and 43rd work well now.Without a complete nuke and re-pave, theres no real way to make the area more pedestrian friendly if that was the goal. Logged "It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first -Ronald Reagan

Hoss

T-Town Elder



Offline



Posts: 11245





I might be moving to Montana soon...





I'm a Daft PunkT-Town ElderPosts: 11245I might be moving to Montana soon... Re: Promenade: Thinking outside the (BIG) Box « Reply #11 on: August 07, 2017, 11:14:27 am » I can't help but think that this stretch of 41st was my first siting of Paul Tay on his bike with the 'inflatable member' on the back as he was dressed as Santa. In summer. Logged Libertarianism is a system of beliefs for people who think adolescence is the epitome of human achievement.



Global warming isn't real because it was cold today. Also great news: world famine is over because I just ate - Stephen Colbert.



Somebody find Guido an ambulance to chase...