We respect India’s position and the cooperation will continue in all walks of life

The new U.S. policy in Afghanistan is an “opportunity” for India-U.S.-Afghanistan cooperation on security as well as development issues, says Afghanistan’s Chief Executive Abdullah Abdullah, speaking to Diplomatic Editor Suhasini Haidar .

How important is the MoU on technical and training cooperation signed during your visit, and what does it mean for bilateral ties?

The MoU is an important step in the security sector. India’s support has been comprehensive here and has always looked at the priorities and the wishes of the Afghan government and people. My visit here had two parts: one were the bilateral meetings, the call on President [Kovind] and my meeting with Prime Minister Modi. We discussed the entire gamut of bilateral relations and areas of cooperation from security to trade and investment.

The other part was the trade and investment show which was cooperation between the U.S., Afghanistan and India. Lots of businessmen and women had travelled here, had the opportunity to interact and bond.

These are the specifics, but do they represent a bigger picture, in which India takes a larger security role, and the India-Afghanistan-U.S. trilateral emerges as an axis?

India has been helping Afghanistan for the past 16 years in many ways. The United States has been helping Afghanistan for the past 16 years. Our cooperation had a security element throughout, like the helicopters India transferred, or training Afghan troops. What was added to that was the announcement of the U.S. policy, which is an opportunity to take this relationship to the trilateral level as well. So yes, I do see this opportunity.

Your visit comes a few days after the Defence Minister said, in the first such statement, that there will be no Indian boots on the ground in Afghanistan. So does this opportunity still exist?

I would say the India has always behaved as a friend to Afghanistan, and wished for us a stable and democratic country, and an Afghanistan at peace, within and without, contributing to the prosperity of the region. Based on this shared vision, India has been ready to provide assistance based on our priorities, as presented by our people and our government.

It is not that if we raise demands, India would say this is [impossible]. But no issue has been raised as such by us so far. We respect India’s position and the cooperation will continue in all walks of life.

You say Afghanistan has not asked, but if the U.S. were to ask?

Every country will decide on its own outlook, and the cooperation between India and Afghanistan is such, we discuss everything.

The Pakistan government on the other hand has accused India of being a spoiler in Afghanistan, even as Afghan senior officials were part of a trilateral in Islamabad with China and Pakistan.

I can’t be held accountable for every comment made in any corner of the world, so I will not enter into that debate. India’s role in Afghanistan has been important, contributing to the stabilisation of Afghanistan, contributing to our wellbeing and is appreciated by our people, whom I represent here as Chief Executive.

Your visit this week coincides with visits from U.S. Defence Secretary James Mattis, who spoke about cooperating in Afghanistan and the Russian President’s envoy on Afghanistan Zamir Kabulov. Do you worry that Afghanistan could become the ground for yet another ‘Great Game’, given that there are now two distinct camps with U.S. and Europe on one side and Russia China, even Iran and Pakistan on the other?

My visit to India was scheduled some time ago, and much preparation had gone into the trade fair, so we shouldn’t read too much into the timing. That said, there is a need for interactions with all countries. We have seen a slightly different outlook between them, and all our partners may not agree on how to approach a solution to the problems of Afghanistan. I feel that we need to bring back the [global] consensus that existed in 2001 [post fall of Taliban], that was a very broad one with very few exceptions.

Is there still a chance of reconciliation with the Taliban then? How true are reports that your government speaks on a “daily basis” to Taliban leaders and there has been some understanding as well?

The policy has been constant in the past 16 years. The door for talks and negotiations is always open and we have not closed it down at any stage. Periodically there have been contacts, messages communicated to the government. People of Afghanistan are supportive of the talks, but at the same time, won’t give up their achievements, including the Constitution. When there will be breakthroughs people will be told of it, but at this stage there is no breakthrough I can report.

There was one breakthrough, in the deal with Gulbuddin Hekmatyar, leader of the Hizb-e-Islami party. As someone who fought the war on the other side, do you think bringing him into the mainstream has been successful?

Well certainly as someone, who was outside the system and in the war-camp, has come into the system and the people of Afghanistan have welcomed it. Then, of course, it will take time for them to adapt, as much has changed in the years Mr. Hekmatyar was away from the country. There is a new youth, a new system, a new energy and dynamism that will take time to absorb. But it was the right move from our side and right for him to embrace it.

And it is possible to forget all that his group was responsible for in the 1990s and after? Is it possible to reconcile ?

The story of reconciliation in Afghanistan is much deeper than this. Remember we were fighting against the Soviets, as a result of which millions of people were refugees, hundreds of thousands were killed or maimed or disabled. But when we came together again, we didn’t go to take revenge from members of that regime. In national interest, a unified Afghanistan is important. We shouldn’t get stuck in the past, even if we can’t forgive or forget. There were some incidents of revenge that did happen. I witnessed the hanging of 14,000 people executed behind the Ministry of Interior, during the early days of the Communist regime. The people who were responsible were still around, but the spirit of reconciliation is still important. If we could forget that, we can still reconcile.

In the absence of a breakthrough, what makes you confident of the security situation in Afghanistan. The new U.S. policy has seen a mere 3,000 plus troops from the U.S.. When a force strength of 100,000 didn’t finish the Taliban, how do you think this will?

I think the important thing from the U.S., apart from troops and military hardware, is the clarity of the message. The clarity that this policy is not time-bound, but condition-based, with a regional component. The bulk of the responsibility is on the shoulders of our soldiers and of the people they support; we shouldn’t forget. That is the hope, not just for individuals but it is the support for a free, unified, democratic Afghanistan with equal rights for men and women. That cannot be reversed.

You spoke also of the hope of the Indian commitment to Chabahar port allowing much more trade. Is there any commitment from the U.S. that they will not object to this trade, as currently most commerce out of Iran is heavily sanctioned?

Look, this is a trilateral arrangement, between Afghanistan, India and Iran. Anything which facilitates legitimate economic activities and contributes to our prosperity, will have the support of our allies. We will find ways and opportunities which are win-wins for all. This trade and investment show in Delhi was a win-win, and we hope Chabahar will help many people.

How do you think the message on terror that you spoke of has been received by Pakistan? How far do you think the U.S. should go in putting pressure on Pakistan and is there a difference in the mood in Pakistan?

Do you think this is the best place to speak of such things? Whatever is in the interest of peace and stability, we will do, but I will not get into specifics as I am here to discuss another important part of our policy, that is the India-Afghanistan relationship.

Do you see a change in Pakistan?

We hope there will be positive changes. I will leave it there.