Senate gun bill allows unrestricted concealed carry

If Sen. Jeff Tarte gets his way this year in the General Assembly, North Carolina could have a new class of concealed carry gun permit holders who could take their firearms anywhere police officers do.

Senate Bill 708, which would create the "Homeland Security Unrestricted Concealed Handgun Permit," is among several gun bills filed in the state legislature this year aimed at easing restrictions on gun owners and streamlining the permitting process.

Tarte also has introduced a bill that would make the concealed carry permit process more unified statewide, eliminating a provision that automatically disqualifies someone treated in the past for a temporary mental disorder such as depression.

On the House side, state Rep. George G. Cleveland, R-Jacksonville, is the primary sponsor of House Bill 562, which would eliminate a requirement that those seeking to buy a handgun secure a "pistol purchase permit" from their county sheriff. Cleveland says it's a redundancy in a system that already requires a federal background check to buy a handgun.

A retired career Marine, Cleveland said he's not worried about any backlash from the anti-gun crowd.

"The more guns we have in society, the politer society will be," he said.

'Not a marshals program'

Tarte, R-Mecklenburg, said the only place those holding an unrestricted concealed carry permit would not be able to bring a gun would be a courtroom.

"Theoretically, you'd be able to carry in a facility that has 'no guns allowed' signs," Tarte said. "We have to clarify (the bill) on individual property owner rights — if someone wanted to preclude you from carrying a gun on their private property."

He sees several benefits to the proposed law, which he stressed is "not a marshals program, per se."

"First, while police do a great job, in most of the situations where you have mass murders, it happens in a instant and there's no time for police to respond," Tarte said.

Also, as the law stands now, a concealed carry permit holder who brings a concealed gun into a building with posted signs prohibiting concealed weapons could lose his permit. This law would eliminate that scenario.

As far as the separate bill addressing temporary mental health issues and concealed carry permits, Tarte believes it's unfair for someone who suffered depression or anxiety after a divorce or a death in the family and sought medical care to be denied a permit years later.

In a country with more than 300 million guns, Tarte said we have to come to grips with the extent to which we are violent by nature.

"It would be nice to have good people who are prepared to take care of the defenseless," he said. "That's why police, I think, are very supportive."

Buncombe County Sheriff Van Duncan, a Democrat, said he has not read the bill and can't say definitively where he stands, but the notion of an unlimited concealed carry gives him pause. It's similar, he contends, to when the idea of allowing teachers or administrators to carry guns in schools surfaced after the Newtown, Connecticut, school shooting.

"You're taking the highest level of force and giving it to folks you have no control over, as far as an employee-type (relationship), or it being a state-certified officer," Duncan said. "Taking all that out of the picture would worry me somewhat."

Tarte's bill would require extensive training, including simulated active shooter scenarios, called "simmunition" training, as well as an extensive mental health exam and a background check similar to what police officers go through. The permit holder would bear the cost, which could run upward of $1,000, he said.

He envisions the costs and requirements limiting applicants to "a couple hundred" people statewide, most likely retired military or police.

Jeff Stucker, co-owner of On Target Shooting Range in Asheville, is one of those who would be interested in pursuing the designation. A national class champion in shooting and a concealed carry permit instructor for 20 years, Stucker said he would like to see such a bill carry provisions for ongoing, intensive training and shooting practice.

"I think it's a great concept, just as long as you don't go outside the bounds of law enforcement," he said.

State Rep. John Ager, D-Buncombe, said he has to read the bills before finalizing a position, but at first blush, "If the training that is required is as extensive as it sounds, it could actually be a good thing, and I might be willing to support it."

Another Buncombe Democrat, Rep. Brian Turner, said he too would have to read the bill before deciding, but he has concerns.

"Are we going to start muddying the waters as to who is law enforcement and who is not?" Turner said. "Those kind of shooter scenarios can be very confusing, and if we have gray areas, that could be very dangerous."

Pistol permits redundant?

A concealed carry permit holder, Turner said elimination of the pistol purchase permit could streamline the process, but he would also have some concerns that the Sheriff's Office could be catching some red flags the National Instant Criminal Background Check System, or NICS, does not. He also tentatively agreed with the measure to ease the concealed carry permit requirements in case of temporary mental health issues.

But he's not rushing to judgment.

"We want to make sure we're leaving enough checks and balances that people who are prone to violence or mentally unstable aren't getting guns," Turner said.

Duncan said he likely could support elimination of the pistol purchase permits through his office, if holes in the NICS reporting system are fixed. Some people have the impression the Sheriff's Office makes money off the $5 permits, or they just want to be restrictive on who gets weapons, and Duncan said, "I can tell you neither one is true."

Duncan said the extra step for purchasing a handgun stems from a belief that handguns are inherently more dangerous than rifles and shotguns, called "long guns," but with the explosion in ownership of AR-15 military-style rifles, "I don't know that that argument still holds water." Duncan stressed that he is not opposed to ownership of AR-15s, which require a buyer only pass the NICS check.

Any chance of passing?

Whether the bills will go anywhere is the big question.

Chris Cooper, a political science professor at Western Carolina University, said gun bills play well in conservative North Carolina. The batch up for discussion this year may roil liberal residents, but overall they're probably fairly in line with many Tar Heel voters and certainly embody Republican values candidates ran on.

"Taken as a package, I think they're all politically realistic," Cooper said. "There are always bills that are brought up that nobody ever expects to pass. None of these sound like that. I think they're all viable bills, and none of them is far from the average voter in North Carolina."

Tarte said with conservative majorities in both houses, he thinks his bills have a good shot at moving on.

Cleveland, the gruff former Marine, is more cynical.

"In the General Assembly, nothing has a good chance of making it anyplace," he said with a laugh, adding that he expects some resistance to eliminating pistol purchase permits. "As with anything, when the special interest groups start pulling strings, you can't count on anything."

Ager, a farmer and gun owner, said new gun law proposals come up every year because they play to an important constituency.

"Somehow, as a society we have to decide, somewhere between a pea shooter and an atom bomb, where to draw the line on what weapons we allow in public and what we don't," Ager said. "My feeling is gun laws come up every time, and they are kind of a distraction from the real issues we have to grapple with down there, which are education and health care."