Two globalist Jews, having finished their lattes, are walking from the cafe to the Canberra Theatre when one says to the other:

"You know, there were a good five people I hung out with who, if I saw their name in the news for that reason – I wouldn’t be surprised."

John Safran Supplied

I’m with John Safran, comedian and author of Depends What You Mean By Extremist, a funny, cutting, much-cited inside account of far-something communities around Australia. As we talk about the 50 killed in Christchurch, and the 28-year old Australian who allegedly committed the act, he agonises over whether the worst is yet to come.

Safran would know. For the book, he sidled up against Australia’s far-right – once downing tequila shots with its Melbourne ringleaders after a Reclaim Australia rally – and as a result, out of anyone in the country, he has some of the most intimate on-the-ground knowledge of the community.

But Christchurch still surprised him.

"All the language and the arguments and the way the far right tries to bring people in is just massively shifting," he says.

I have spoken to Safran three times: once outside alt-right darling Milo Yiannopoulos’ Melbourne show three years ago, another time to hear his thoughts on January's far-right St Kilda rally, and a third time on Thursday.

The chats have become a coincidental far-right litmus test – not just an insight into the scope of the movement, but its mood – and that could not have been more apparent in our conversation this week.

The Christchurch attack was one of a kind because of its deadliness, but also in the way the alleged shooter deployed ironic themes – or "shitposting" – in his so-called manifesto. More than a week later, they are still being unpacked.

In that context, it figures that this time, my chat with Safran covers everything from obscure US Democrat nominee hopeful Andrew Yang (why do neo-Nazis like him?) to popular YouTube star PewDiePie (is he a neo-Nazi?), to Sonia Kruger (did she abet neo-Nazis?).

Yang, despite being from another country and political brand, is at the top of Safran's mind when asked about the far right post-Christchurch.

"So, yeah, at the moment the alt-right is big on this Asian-American politician called Yang," Safran says, describing the unlikely candidate who favours universal basic income and fears automation.

A month ago, Yang caught the attention of Richard Spencer, an American neo-Nazi who, in an Egg Boy-like incident, was punched live on the ABC while describing why he was wearing a cartoon "Pepe the frog" pin – the frog itself an alt-right meme. Now, Yang has started featuring in Facebook profile pictures across far-right Australia.

"There's so much weird, coded stuff going on. And so part of their little half-joke is they're all wearing a pink hat on their profile pics and someone's actualised that – you can order a Yang cap. It's meant to symbolise they've given up on [United States President Donald] Trump.

"It's like a puzzle."

Safran concludes the Yang insight by warning that attempting to dissect the online, far-right community is becoming more fraught.

For instance, during the Christchurch livestreaming before he leaves his car, alleged shooter Brenton Tarrant says "Remember, lads, subscribe to PewDiePie", the pseudonym for Felix Kjellberg, who is the most subscribed-to YouTube personality in the world.

The far right found it hilarious, and the rest of us were confused.

In The Atlantic, Taylor Lorenz describes the name-drop as a deliberate ploy.

"Every aspect of the shootings was designed to gain maximum attention online, in part by baiting the media ... The [PewDiePie] phrase itself is a meme started by PewDiePie’s fans, and its goal is to be reprinted."

For Safran, it's an example that proves well-intentioned progressive deplatforming can have adverse consequences.

When in 2018 PewDiePie recommended his viewers subscribe to another YouTube account for its intelligent commentary on anime, he found himself in serious hot water – it was revealed that the channel also uploaded anti-Semitic videos, such as one that shows uninterrupted footage of an Adolf Hitler speech littered with stereotyped Jewish cartoons.

PewDiePie said he didn't know about those videos, but it didn't matter: progressives started talking about deplatforming, and he became a far-right hero.

"The thing is, we lost PewDiePie as a voice. He'd come out before and said he abhors racism, and unambiguously, that's a good thing. He's speaking the alt-right's language. He's speaking to the people who are racist and is saying an anti-racist message." Safran says. "With deplatforming, it just seems the alt-right gets to make out that PewDiePie is on their side, which he's not."

Safran wants the mainstream ("normies", as we are known by the alt-right) to understand that "normie" messages just don't break through to someone whose life, personality and community are shaped by obscure but influential online forums – such as 8chan, where the shooter allegedly posted his intention to kill minutes before he did so.

You just know Tarrant wasn't watching Sunrise. John Safran

"Egg Boy is an example of that complex communication," Safran says, discussing last week's egging of Senator Fraser Anning by 17-year old Will Connolly. "What he did really communicated a vibe and it was really an answer to the conversation the far right was having. It was a way of having the conversation that cut through, which you can do when you realise that not everything is a Q&A panel or a Drum panel.

"You need to have these messy, stranger, more unmoderated conversations to get these points across. I mean, if communication was that easy, and the way you argue things was that easy, you could just come up with these arguments and then suddenly there would be peace in the world."

The globalist Jews arrive at the theatre, where Safran is preparing for one of the last-ever runs of his show Jew Detective: Sarcasm is not a crime; after Canberra there is only Hobart, Wollongong and the Gold Coast.

Before we part ways, via our discussion of Egg Boy, we get to Kruger: mainstream media, Safran argues, simply does not understand how to communicate with this new type of audience.

"People are laying into Sonia Kruger and Rupert Murdoch after Christchurch," Safran says, before pausing.

"I'll allow that. But it's almost beside the point. You just know Tarrant wasn't watching Sunrise."