From : Daniel Glazman < : Daniel Glazman < daniel.glazman@disruptive-innovations.com



Message-ID : <4B8E285C.9080606@disruptive-innovations.com>

To : Sylvain Galineau < : Sylvain Galineau < sylvaing@microsoft.com

Cc : Aryeh Gregor < : Aryeh Gregor < Simetrical+w3c@gmail.com >, Zack Weinberg < zweinberg@mozilla.com >, " www-style@w3.org " < www-style@w3.org



Le 26/02/10 04:15, Sylvain Galineau a écrit : > This topic has come up before; see http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2009May/0105.html. I find rather hilarious - and a shame at the same time - that HTML5 elements and attributes are implemented as is w/o vendor prefix even if the document is only a WD while we still require differenciated vendor prefixes for CSS until CR that are a huge burden on web authors. The last case is the placeholder attribute on html input fields, recently implemented in Gecko and already implemented long ago as is in Webkit. I said it in the past and I maintain my opinion: the vendor prefixes as we manage them in CSS don't make sense. We have border-radius and border-image interoperable enough so web authors copy precisely styles only changing the prefix. That gives stylesheets that are a pain to maintain, and with my editor's implementor hat on, hell to edit. We've had @namespace implemented w/o vendor prefix eons before CR. The vendor prefixes also pollute all the compatibility tests available on the web (or in our test suites) because the day vendor prefixes are removed, we have to update everything. The day vendor prefixes go away, editing tools also have to be updated and that is not always easy to do. Think *-border-radius: a modern editing tool CANNOT avoid it. So it has _today_ to deal with at least 4 different versions of the property for editing, for computed style, etc. Think CSS 3 transformations or transitions, the new cool kids on the block. It's a mess... I understand that nothing in a spec is really frozen until the spec is released, but I don't see why there is a burden on CSS and not on other Web standards here. Again, HTML5 is only a WD and implementations don't use prefixes. I am officially requesting that a DRASTIC change of the way we manage CSS vendor prefixes (and in particular when we remove them) be discussed between browser vendors, for instance during the forthcoming CSS WG face-to-face meeting. An idea could be to let the WG decide when a given property can avoid vendor prefixes instead of enforcing the CR status for the whole spec. I would like the following to never happen again (example taken from a real stylesheet on the web) if the properties are already interoperable enough to avoid it: -moz-border-radius: 5px; -webkit-border-radius: 5px; -o-border-radius: 5px; -ms-border-radius: 5px; border-radius: 5px; Counter-productivity at its best... </Daniel>