Interview mit Theude zum Stand der HS-Szene

Theude: Das RNG ist ein großer Teil des Problems

Theude: RNG is a great part of the problem

We haven’t seen you play actively for a while. Are you still playing competitively?

In January I more or less stopped my pro-career and went into management at Fade2Karma. I still play however and coach streamers and players every once in a while.

The Hearthstone scene is probably living through its lowest point at the moment. What are the reasons for that?

You have to differentiate about that: the HS tournament scene is hitting its low point, the entertainment part as a streamer’s game however is still going strong.

When it comes to the tournament scene, many people name the constantly rising RNG as the main cause for the downfall. In my opinion this is a big part of the problem, however, it is not the root of the evil. I think the downfall began with the decisions made back in 2014. Blizzard then decided to introduce its own tournament system, Conquest, which was a lot easier to understand from a tactical point than the usually played Last Hero Standing format.

Since then the tournament scene has been fighting with ever dropping viewercounts and the general interest has decreased. I will try to explain that further based on my experience as a tournament admin: There are four main groups of viewers. Group A watches the tournament to be entertained; group B wants to see innovative decks to try on Ladder; group C wants to watch their favourite streamers and group D is in for the high level gameplay.

After the introduction of Conquest group B was rapidly decimated, as players noticed how easily innovative deck ideas could be punished in that format. So they switched to staple decks. How many times did we read „Oh, another Face Shaman against Dragon Warrior!“? AS consequence the viewers felt less entertained, so group A also stopped watching.

The ever increasing RNG factors, the missing innovation because of the format and preparation as such also lowered the skill cap more and more, which resulted in group D losing interest. As of now the tournaments are nearly exclusively driven by personalities, who don’t represent the eSports though, as only they celebrity status counts and not their actual skill.

We’ve seen the exact opposite happen in StarCraft II. The viewer counts are declining, because there are less popular faces. Do you think it’s generally hard to find a middle way in eSports between high level gameplay and personality?

I’m not an expert in StarCraft, but as far as I can tell that train has already left the station a long time ago . As soon as a scene is crumbling down the rebuilding becomes nearly impossible. This is the reason we have to take action very quickly in HS.

You can see in other games though that this balancing act can be done very well. Look at CS:GO for example: Most personalities are bound to a high skill level, like in many traditional sports. We have simply reached a point in HS, where the best players only reach about 55% to 60% winrate against much worse players only because of the format, structure and few other reasons. This makes it much harder for fans to give these players the attention they deserve. That is why the trend is going towards celebrities with personality.

RNG has been a huge discussion point ever since HS started its eSports scene. Many criticise this point and say, it makes HS not be a real eSports. Players like Lifecaoch, however, often say there isn’t as much RNG to it than people think. Do you think it has been a problem from the beginning or did it get worse with new cards?

I think that RNG generally damages every activity you try to exercise professionally. To call HS not a real eSports from the beginning, because it includes RNG, is of course nonsense – at least it was. After certain cards have been added to the game in the past years I can now understand this statement more and more.

At the beginning the RNG had way less influence than it does today. In the past players would rage over a turn 8 Ragnaros flip, which ended the game. Today some games end on turn 3 with a Tuskarr Totemic flip or in turn 4 with a Barnes flip. Such processes are highly damaging the integrity of HS in eSports and have no reason to exist in a professional format in my opinion.

To answer the question: At the beginning it felt like a small nuisance, which developed into a chronic insult over time.

RNG would not be a problem in a real card game like Magic. Do you think one could play Hearthstone more professionally with real cards?

Many of the RNG effects present in hearthstone would simply not be possible in a traditional card game, as the virtual interface could not be simulated (e.g. Yogg, Sneeds Old Shredder and more). I think this makes up great parts of the attraction HS has for mainly casual players. So, HS would not really be playable with real cards, but the RNG is mainly a balancing problem between the casual and eSports scenes. In my opinion this could easily be solved with my suggestions.

You and your team work actively to bring live to the tournament desert. What caused this turn for you?

At F2K we’ve been observing this trend for a long while and recently switched our focus point to more streaming. Playing on a professional competitive level is only possible right now, when you have a big, functioning stream. It was a necessary step, but not a wanted one.

We work together with partner to go up against the current trend. For example we are working with the tournament plattform Good-Gaming.com, which is holding a tournament free of admission this weekend with a 1,500 USD prize pool. I am personally going to admin this, as it is a matter of heart for me, because of my history with HS competitions. I want to bring the HS scene back on track.

I also played HS when it was still in Beta and in the beginning it was these open tournaments, like Managrind, that gave the scene its identity. There were also and still are many providers of open tournaments, like e.g. Strivewire and Zotac, just to name a few, who are still actively working this field. Often these providers are facing problems as well though: non optimal tournament administrators and bad planning, like it was at the last Good-Gaming tourney, non existent or much too small prize pools with others, problems with their websites and much more. This is why it is a very personal matter to me, to admin the next tournament at Good-Gaming myself and help the platform to improve, because I think we need a functioning, bigger and more open tournament scene, to get HS back to its former glory.

How do you think can one push the HS scene again? What needs to be done?

I think the thing we need, to make the HS scene come back to live, is a regulating authority for cards led by Blizzard in combination with the community. As Firebat is currently proving with his Batstone events, there are many people interested in seeing the meta game changed by precisely aimed regulations in the allowed cards. This is easy for Firebat, as his tournament is not monetised and doesn’t need a license. Holding a tournament with card bans and prize pool was impossible to this point.

Furthermore we need an institution, that has the authority, to react quickly. It cannot be the case a Grim Patron deck has a lifetime of 6-9 months without anything happening about it. Take the Mysterious Challenger as an example: Had we been able to make the card go Legendary after its first week in competitive play (resulting in 1 card per deck), there would have been different strategies and players could not have abused the card so much.

There are endless possibilities, but they have to be centralised. A chaos, where every tournament has its own rules, cannot hold up well. As soon as we get this central authority, we need to have Last Hero Standing back as a tournament format. If these two points can be fulfilled, the groups A & D of viewers would come back (entertainment and high level gameplay). After this it’s in my opinion up to Blizzard to introduce a new Ladder. Bo5 LHS combined with the previously introduced instruction by the institution. Make this happen and group B will come back too.

Blizzard often mentioned, however, that they were trying to use as little patches and changes in HS as possible. This is supposed to make it easier for casual players. Do you think this is a problem?

This is why there should be a clear line between the competitive ladder and a casual ladder. Nothing will change for casual players, as they wouldn’t have to deal with the changes (card bans and limitations), which only affect the Bo5 competitive ladder and the tournament scene. Blizzard has tried too long to juggle both scenes in one ladder in my opinion.

Do you think the celebrities could do more or play a great part in the resurrection of HS?

That is certainly the case. If everyone only cares about themselves, there will be no community. I will try to do my part and try to make the open tournament scene bigger again. However, some celebrities are profiting from the current trend. In the end everyone has to decide for themselves how much they leave their own interests behind to help the community.

How much has to come from Blizzard?

100%.

We had way too many half-assed things so far. The increase of prize pools and adjustments in the qualification format at Worlds were good steps into the right direction, but when you sport becomes synchronized swimming in the meantime (No offense to all sync-swimmers, but I need an example), you still don’t have the amount of viewers you want and the success compared to football/soccer. Many of the much needed changes are simply not doable without the help from Blizzard.

Some people are already prognosing the end of HS, but even SCII is holding itself close from the ground for many years now. Did HS reach its half-life?

It only depends on how Blizzard and the community react. If the right steps are taken then the game still hasn’t reached its peak point. If everything goes on like it is now, HS is facing a similar fate as SCII.

Will you play again actively?.

I am very happy with my role in management, but I would be lying if I said there is no urge to pick it up again. If everything goes well and HS becomes the game it once was again, I might not be able to stop myself. (laughs)