brianiscool

join:2000-08-16

Tampa, FL brianiscool Member Large download speed increase, but upload is terrible. When will their speeds be at least 50, 75 and up for their upload?



chamberc

Premium Member

join:2008-08-05

Irving, TX chamberc Premium Member Re: Large download speed increase, but upload is terrible. The entire to consumer architecture is built towards asymmetric speed, for download. You'll see 50-75 upload about the time 500 mbps to 1 gbps is common on the download.



tiger72

SexaT duorP

Premium Member

join:2001-03-28

Saint Louis, MO tiger72 Premium Member Re: Large download speed increase, but upload is terrible. frankly, they need to use speedboost for uploads now...



L337

Premium Member

join:2005-03-10

Chicago, IL L337 Premium Member Re: Large download speed increase, but upload is terrible. How is that reasonable? Your upload can be over 15M up like mine but Google will still download from you slowly. Plus, powerboost for uploads only last so long, after a few mins your upload is shitty.



tiger72

SexaT duorP

Premium Member

join:2001-03-28

Saint Louis, MO tiger72 Premium Member Re: Large download speed increase, but upload is terrible. said by L337: How is that reasonable? Your upload can be over 15M up like mine but Google will still download from you slowly. Plus, powerboost for uploads only last so long, after a few mins your upload is shitty.

Because of the same reasons why Powerboost was deemed "useful" years ago. Uploading vacation photos and short videos to the myriad social networks would be expedited. As others have pointed out, DOCSIS isn't designed for high upload rates for end users. Guaranteed high uploads aren't going to be a reality for cable networks until they push ftth themselves. Until then, powerboost on uploads is a good way to dynamically allocate free bandwidth where needed for limited amounts of time.



skeechan

Ai Otsukaholic

Premium Member

join:2012-01-26

AA169|170 skeechan to brianiscool

Premium Member to brianiscool

When they have to in order to compete, not before.

34764170 (banned)

join:2007-09-06

Etobicoke, ON 34764170 (banned) Member Re: Large download speed increase, but upload is terrible. Up here the cable providers are doing just that, although still not competing very well.



Jerm

join:2000-04-10

Richland, WA Jerm to brianiscool

Member to brianiscool

said by brianiscool: When will their speeds be at least 50, 75 and up for their upload?





When they start channel bonding more. Right now an upstream channel has ~27mbps after overhead SHARED between all users on the RF binder group (or "node" used loosely).



Most systems today are 4 downstream channels (152mbps after overhead) and 1 upstream (27mbps). The problem is people leave torrents running or stream their slingbox all day long, so it can be really easy to fill your whole upstream pipe 24/7 where most people will run out of hard drive space eventually and downstream isn't a 24/7/365 100% use threat...



Just FWIW I expected this to happen, as there is little incentive for me to purchase 30mbps service from Charter when my 15mbps powerboosts to 3/4th that on a regular basis... HA.When they start channel bonding more. Right now an upstream channel has ~27mbps after overhead SHARED between all users on the RF binder group (or "node" used loosely).Most systems today are 4 downstream channels (152mbps after overhead) and 1 upstream (27mbps). The problem is people leave torrents running or stream their slingbox all day long, so it can be really easy to fill your whole upstream pipe 24/7 where most people will run out of hard drive space eventually and downstream isn't a 24/7/365 100% use threat...Just FWIW I expected this to happen, as there is little incentive for me to purchase 30mbps service from Charter when my 15mbps powerboosts to 3/4th that on a regular basis...

prairiesky

join:2008-12-08

canada prairiesky Member Re: Large download speed increase, but upload is terrible. Add in that download is much more sellable and needed. If a free channel became available, it's use is more valuable as a download channel than an upload.

34764170 (banned)

join:2007-09-06

Etobicoke, ON 34764170 (banned) Member Re: Large download speed increase, but upload is terrible. said by prairiesky: Add in that download is much more sellable and needed. If a free channel became available, it's use is more valuable as a download channel than an upload.

The channels don't work like that and there are a lot more people wanting faster upload speeds than there are that want 100+ Mbps download speeds.



Jerm

join:2000-04-10

Richland, WA Jerm to prairiesky

Member to prairiesky

said by prairiesky: If a free channel became available, it's use is more valuable as a download channel than an upload.





You can't just substitute one for the other... cable plants act very differently downstream vs upstream. Upload is generally 5-42Mhz. Downstream is generally 600-700mhz.You can't just substitute one for the other... cable plants act very differently downstream vs upstream.



motorola870

join:2008-12-07

Arlington, TX motorola870 Member Re: Large download speed increase, but upload is terrible. said by Jerm: said by prairiesky: If a free channel became available, it's use is more valuable as a download channel than an upload.





You can't just substitute one for the other... cable plants act very differently downstream vs upstream.

Upload is generally 5-42Mhz. Downstream is generally 600-700mhz.You can't just substitute one for the other... cable plants act very differently downstream vs upstream. in reality the downstream channels can be placed from 57MHz to 999MHz if the cable company wanted to place them anywhere but they would have to have 1GHz gear to put channels higher than 861MHz. I know in my area the downstream channels are in the 780MHz to 816MHz range right now.

motorola870 motorola870 to Jerm

Member to Jerm

said by Jerm: said by brianiscool: When will their speeds be at least 50, 75 and up for their upload?





When they start channel bonding more. Right now an upstream channel has ~27mbps after overhead SHARED between all users on the RF binder group (or "node" used loosely).



Most systems today are 4 downstream channels (152mbps after overhead) and 1 upstream (27mbps). The problem is people leave torrents running or stream their slingbox all day long, so it can be really easy to fill your whole upstream pipe 24/7 where most people will run out of hard drive space eventually and downstream isn't a 24/7/365 100% use threat...



Just FWIW I expected this to happen, as there is little incentive for me to purchase 30mbps service from Charter when my 15mbps powerboosts to 3/4th that on a regular basis...

HA.When they start channel bonding more. Right now an upstream channel has ~27mbps after overhead SHARED between all users on the RF binder group (or "node" used loosely).Most systems today are 4 downstream channels (152mbps after overhead) and 1 upstream (27mbps). The problem is people leave torrents running or stream their slingbox all day long, so it can be really easy to fill your whole upstream pipe 24/7 where most people will run out of hard drive space eventually and downstream isn't a 24/7/365 100% use threat...Just FWIW I expected this to happen, as there is little incentive for me to purchase 30mbps service from Charter when my 15mbps powerboosts to 3/4th that on a regular basis...



24.5MHz

29.5MHz

33MHz

36.5MHz



so right now each node has 60Mbps roughly on the upstream to give out to each customer and the fastest they offer right now on the upload is 5Mbps for their 30 Mbps, 50Mbps, and 75Mbps tiers and this is with upstream bonding so the chances of getting a solid 5Mbps upload a great right now as they are limiting the upload to 5Mbps. I am hearing that TWC is planning on increasing the top tier to 100Mbps down and 20Mbps or 25Mbps up in my area. But that is a few months off as they are having to remove additional analogs on the downstream side so they can move from 6 to 8 downstreams for the DOCSIS channels and possibly make some of the upstreams 6.4MHz wide channels. well actually there is channels on the upstream that do not provide 27Mbps net. I know that the TWC system I am on has 4 upstream channels that are 3.2MHz wide QAM16/QAM64 mixed mode that have a max of 15Mbps per channel and they (Time Warner Cable) are bonding them here and most of the time my modem is connected to the QAM64 profile but sometimes it will degrade to QAM16 for short periods if there is noise on the line. Right now TWC is using in the Dallas cluster (North Texas) for upstream:24.5MHz29.5MHz33MHz36.5MHzso right now each node has 60Mbps roughly on the upstream to give out to each customer and the fastest they offer right now on the upload is 5Mbps for their 30 Mbps, 50Mbps, and 75Mbps tiers and this is with upstream bonding so the chances of getting a solid 5Mbps upload a great right now as they are limiting the upload to 5Mbps. I am hearing that TWC is planning on increasing the top tier to 100Mbps down and 20Mbps or 25Mbps up in my area. But that is a few months off as they are having to remove additional analogs on the downstream side so they can move from 6 to 8 downstreams for the DOCSIS channels and possibly make some of the upstreams 6.4MHz wide channels.

resa1983

Premium Member

join:2008-03-10

North York, ON resa1983 Premium Member Rogers Not all of the cable industry is..



Rogers here in Canada is still keeping with SpeedBoost. They like their customers seeing the right speeds (even for a few seconds) when their network is massively congested because they're too bloody cheap to do upgrades.

openbox9

Premium Member

join:2004-01-26

71144 openbox9 Premium Member Re: Rogers said by resa1983: They like their customers seeing the right speeds (even for a few seconds) when their network is massively congested But if the network is massively congested, you aren't going to see the "right speed" regardless of bursting.

Anzio

join:2008-11-22

Innisfil, ON Anzio Member Re: Rogers said by openbox9: said by resa1983: They like their customers seeing the right speeds (even for a few seconds) when their network is massively congested

But if the network is massively congested, you aren't going to see the "right speed" regardless of bursting.



Congestion would imply that SpeedBoost wouldn't even activate (since it can only use available bandwidth). Yeah. As much as I want to avoid defending Rogers, their network is pretty solid in most (if not all) areas and they are most certainly not sitting still. They've done quite a few upgrades in the last little while. In my area I can easily maintain my plans speed (bursting for about 25MB by 60Mbps or so).Congestion would imply that SpeedBoost wouldn't even activate (since it can only use available bandwidth).



ChuckcZar

@teksavvy.com ChuckcZar Anon Re: Rogers Are you kidding me? If Rogers ever opened their wallet moths would fly out of it.

rradina

join:2000-08-08

Chesterfield, MO ·Charter

rradina Member Will we notice? I wonder if web browsing will feel flat after PB dies? My current Charter plan is 15/3 but my DOCSIS 2.0 modem typically maxes out for the first few seconds (30Mbps +). I cannot help but wonder if I lose PB, will media rich web pages not feel as crisp? Will streaming video not start as quickly?



Morac

Cat god

join:2001-08-30

Riverside, NJ Morac Member Re: Will we notice? It's unlikely you'll notice. The only things that really benefited from PB was downloads of large files and filling video stream buffers slightly faster. A 3 Mbps connection is more than enough to load web pages quickly.



A well designed web page should load before doing any of the above. These days sluggish web pages are caused by things like an over abundance of Flash or server issues.



AnonFTW

@reliablehosting.com AnonFTW to rradina

Anon to rradina

said by rradina: I wonder if web browsing will feel flat after PB dies? My current Charter plan is 15/3 but my DOCSIS 2.0 modem typically maxes out for the first few seconds (30Mbps +). I cannot help but wonder if I lose PB, will media rich web pages not feel as crisp? Will streaming video not start as quickly?

Unless your line is overloaded, no.



Majestik

World Traveler

Premium Member

join:2001-05-11

Tulsa, OK Majestik to rradina

Premium Member to rradina

Does not matter. That is why I have Cox essentials which is about 3/.70.

Unless you are doing a lot of downloading or have more than two in your home you are wasting your money.

rradina

join:2000-08-08

Chesterfield, MO ·Charter

rradina Member Re: Will we notice? RE: Wasting money. That plan is tied to my service agreement but it's slower than their current lowest plan. I think the slowest Charter plan in my area is now 30/4 for $29.99 bundled with $29.99 phone and $29.99 TV.



I can certainly tell a huge difference between surfing on 3Mbps DSL and Charter's 15/3 but is that because of PB or 15 being faster than 3?



ArrayList

DevOps

Premium Member

join:2005-03-19

Mullica Hill, NJ ArrayList Premium Member add on feature if PB dies, I'd be surprised to not see it be an add on feature.



newview

Ex .. Ex .. Exactly

Premium Member

join:2001-10-01

Parsonsburg, MD newview Premium Member This is just the first step ... toward justifying another price increase.



skeechan

Ai Otsukaholic

Premium Member

join:2012-01-26

AA169|170 skeechan Premium Member Re: This is just the first step As if they ever had to justifying price increases.

openbox9

Premium Member

join:2004-01-26

71144 openbox9 to newview

Premium Member to newview

How so? Prices are rising regardless of removing the bursting capability. Or are you referring to faster tiers of service?

gaforces (banned)

United We Stand, Divided We Fall

join:2002-04-07

Santa Cruz, CA gaforces (banned) Member It's stil offered I checked in my area yesterday and the packages they offer include powerboost.

They make it sound good with thier flowery marketing lingo.

I still cant tell if its any good like people say or they are just moved by the advertising.



Jerm

join:2000-04-10

Richland, WA Jerm Member Re: It's stil offered said by gaforces: ...cant tell if its any good like people say or they are just moved by the advertising.

PB is great. It really does allow for up to twice your "paid for" bandwidth in little spurts at the beginning of a TCP download. Web browsing is done in small "spurts" of transfers when a link is clicked, this is exactly what PB allows. When downloading a huge file at your maximum speed PB allows you to still "burst" to get that webpage you just loaded without it fighting with the regular download. Makes it feel "snappy".



Morac

Cat god

join:2001-08-30

Riverside, NJ Morac Member PB is irrelevant I haven't had PB since last summer when Comcast updated me to 50/10 and really I haven't missed it. PB was useful back in the days of 6 or even 12 Mbps connections, but as speeds increased it lost it's usefulness.



These days, when I can download a 1 GB file in under 3 minutes, the extra few seconds PB would shave off the download is meaningless.



Not to mention that I rarely find servers capable of actually delivering 50 Mbps download speeds, so PB won't really help in that case anyway.



Upload PB is still kind of useful, but the vast majority of people don't do a lot of uploading or if they do, it can be done in the background where upload time isn't as relevant.



XANAVirus

Premium Member

join:2012-03-03

Lavalette, WV XANAVirus Premium Member Re: PB is irrelevant Powerboost may be irrelevant, but they still need to offer faster upload speeds.



Those who are content creators, like me (and others), who upload multiple 30-minute videos to YouTube, would appreciate the higher upload - therefore leading to less wait for all the videos to go up.



This would really help me, since even though I have a dedicated uploading computer, because I still have to wait 8 hours for the first of 5-6 videos to be up and I have to do this at night.



Most ISPs offer *only* 1Mbps upload speed, or 3Mbps or 5Mbps. At my location, no one offers higher than 1Mbps, unless you buy ultra-expensive fiber Internet (which is not offered for my house, only for my business location).



[Of course, I can't upload on my business location, because this is not on company time, because I create content for others' entertainment, fun, and myself.]



skeechan

Ai Otsukaholic

Premium Member

join:2012-01-26

AA169|170 skeechan Premium Member It is pointless the way they are doing it Cox used to do it right, uncapping for the first few hundred MB of a DL but a few months ago they "fixed" it so that a 50Mb tier was capped to 55Mb with PB. Who would notice?



I'd love to have an uncapped 8 channel connection for the first say, 500MB. Even with a 150Mb tier that would turn a 30s download into 15s one. And I may even willing to pay a premium for it.

NoHereNoMo

join:2012-12-06 NoHereNoMo Member "Speed" war? You mean "numbers" war. Not once have I ever needed more than 5mbps. Yeah, there are things I do that can take advantage of a little bit more speed, but still no more than 10mbps. (How fast do I really need to fill up a buffer?) Yeah, there are things that others do that can take advantage of even higher speeds (or there are simply more people at the customer location). But at this point it's just numbers on a chart. Oh, yes, please... let me pay more for that, thank you so much. Frankly, if I could get back my old 3000/768 Verizon DSL for $30/month... I'd seriously consider it. At 5/1 for $30 I'd be there in a heartbeat.



IowaCowboy

Supermarket Hero

Premium Member

join:2010-10-16

Springfield, MA ARRIS SB6183

Netgear R8000

IowaCowboy Premium Member Good I will like having a stable speed as the power boost messes up my computers. It still takes the same amount of time to download a Mac OS/app/iOS update either with or without the Power Boost.



I'd rather not have those teaser speeds especially with blast 50/10. Now they should sunset all DOCSIS 2.0 modems.



Smith6612

MVM

join:2008-02-01

North Tonawanda, NY Ubiquiti Unifi Security Gateway

Ubee E31U2V1

Ubiquiti UniFi AP-AC-HD

Smith6612 MVM Bye! Glad to see it going away. Stable speeds that can be adjusted accordingly for, even automatically so end users don't have to put up with it. I've seen PowerBoost as a helpful thing for bursty traffic but nothing more than a gimmick where consistent speed shines over others.

Paxio

Premium Member

join:2011-02-23

Santa Clara, CA Paxio Premium Member PowerBoost? What's that?



PowerBoost? What's that? And why would anyone need it if they had a fiber connection?



MJB33

join:2012-01-29 MJB33 Member Re: PowerBoost? What's that? ROGERS IS A BUNCH OF FLIPPING LYING LIERS.. DON'T EVEN HAVE GIGABIT SPEEDS IN BOTH DIRECTIONS... THEY ARE TO BUSY STEALING YOUR MONEY AND AVOIDING EVERY NETWORK UPGRADE..



BELL IS THE SAME...



motorola870

join:2008-12-07

Arlington, TX motorola870 Member been going on 3 years now without powerboost and no problesm I had powerboost when I first got TWC right before they rolled out DOCSIS 3.0 in my area and I had turbo with a SB5101 and then I got a SB6120 and it got 4 channel bonding a for a few weeks it was getting powerboost in the 90+ Mbps range and then I got 30/5 extreme from TWC when they allowed my address to get it and I had to go to one of their SB6120s and it no longer had powerboost. I have been getting a constant 30 down / 5 up since 2010.



cork1958

Cork

Premium Member

join:2000-02-26 cork1958 Premium Member Still have it on Charter I still have powerboost with Charter although I have NEVER seen why powerboost was necessary or even cool. All it has ever done is mess up speed tests when trying to figure out connection issues!



What good does 5 seconds of powerboost do when you're downloading some huge Linux iso or something similar?



I mean, who needs a powerboost to download flash player, or Firefox/Chrome or just about any common program?