Nemesis



Offline



Activity: 462

Merit: 250







Sr. MemberActivity: 462Merit: 250 Re: The latest Avalon announcement in China(Translated). Batch #3, price and more. March 20, 2013, 02:23:26 PM #17 Quote from: Korbman on March 20, 2013, 02:16:57 PM Quote from: ShadesOfMarble on March 20, 2013, 02:01:38 PM Quote from: Aseras on March 20, 2013, 01:57:51 PM You can buy a BFL minirig for 500 btc, and delivery would probably be in the same timeframe. You can "buy" one, yes. But you are not going to get any ROI, because no working BFL ASIC hardware exists.

Avalon does exist and currently running units get an insane ROI.

You can "buy" one, yes. But you are not going to get any ROI,Avalon does exist and currently running units get an insane ROI.

A bit naive, don't you think? It's clear that BFL has been developing hardware..don't let their incompetence cloud your judgment. Anyway, we're not here to talk about BFL..this is an Avalon thread silly.



Seriously though, people really don't have a problem paying $7,000 for a 600w+ 80GH/s device? I also find it kind of funny that the buyers from Batch #1 paid the lowest price and are making the highest return on their investment. The Batch #2 price hike was expected...it was kind of like the "Fuck you, we're legit and you missed out on the first round".



But to triple the price for Batch #3 sort of solidifies the initial notion that they are indeed using preorder funds to complete the previous orders (it also fully explains why they "shipped" 2 months ago and are still behind on their first shipment). I imagine after selling out of Batch #3 they'll have enough money to get everything back on track again (financially anyways).

A bit naive, don't you think? It's clear that BFL has been developing hardware..don't letincompetence cloud your judgment. Anyway, we're not here to talk about BFL..this is an Avalon thread silly.Seriously though, people really don't have a problem paying $7,000 for a 600w+ 80GH/s device? I also find it kind of funny that the buyers from Batch #1 paid theand are making the. The Batch #2 price hike was expected...it was kind of like the "".But tothe price for Batch #3 sort of solidifies the initial notion that they are indeed using preorder funds to complete the previous orders (it also fully explains why they "shipped" 2 months ago and are still behind on their first shipment). I imagine after selling out of Batch #3 they'll have enough money to get everything back on track again (financially anyways).

For all we know, they could have been mining with your batch 2 orders right now.

Hence they figure that price increased is just a lost income for shipping those batch 2 orders.



I hope they do sell out at this price

For all we know, they could have been mining with your batch 2 orders right now.Hence they figure that price increased is just a lost income for shipping those batch 2 orders.I hope they do sell out at this price

Bowjob



Offline



Activity: 294

Merit: 250









Sr. MemberActivity: 294Merit: 250 Re: The latest Avalon announcement in China(Translated). Batch #3, price and more. March 20, 2013, 02:28:50 PM #18 Quote from: Korbman on March 20, 2013, 02:16:57 PM Quote from: ShadesOfMarble on March 20, 2013, 02:01:38 PM Quote from: Aseras on March 20, 2013, 01:57:51 PM You can buy a BFL minirig for 500 btc, and delivery would probably be in the same timeframe. You can "buy" one, yes. But you are not going to get any ROI, because no working BFL ASIC hardware exists.

Avalon does exist and currently running units get an insane ROI.

You can "buy" one, yes. But you are not going to get any ROI,Avalon does exist and currently running units get an insane ROI.

A bit naive, don't you think? It's clear that BFL has been developing hardware..don't let their incompetence cloud your judgment. Anyway, we're not here to talk about BFL..this is an Avalon thread silly.



Seriously though, people really don't have a problem paying $7,000 for a 600w+ 80GH/s device? I also find it kind of funny that the buyers from Batch #1 paid the lowest price and are making the highest return on their investment. The Batch #2 price hike was expected...it was kind of like the "Fuck you, we're legit and you missed out on the first round".



But to triple the price for Batch #3 sort of solidifies the initial notion that they are indeed using preorder funds to complete the previous orders (it also fully explains why they "shipped" 2 months ago and are still behind on their first shipment). I imagine after selling out of Batch #3 they'll have enough money to get everything back on track again (financially anyways).

A bit naive, don't you think? It's clear that BFL has been developing hardware..don't letincompetence cloud your judgment. Anyway, we're not here to talk about BFL..this is an Avalon thread silly.Seriously though, people really don't have a problem paying $7,000 for a 600w+ 80GH/s device? I also find it kind of funny that the buyers from Batch #1 paid theand are making the. The Batch #2 price hike was expected...it was kind of like the "".But tothe price for Batch #3 sort of solidifies the initial notion that they are indeed using preorder funds to complete the previous orders (it also fully explains why they "shipped" 2 months ago and are still behind on their first shipment). I imagine after selling out of Batch #3 they'll have enough money to get everything back on track again (financially anyways).

1.) Batch 2 was more expensive because shipping was included in the price. Batch 1 was $1299 + shipping.

2.) BFL won't ship anytime soon. You're welcome to prove me wrong.

3.) Avalon could have mined themselves, and keep all the profit. Yet they are selling to the public. It's ludicrous to think that they would set up a ponzi like structure with their orders. Due to the insane ROI of Avalons, 88 BTC seems like a bargain still. 4.) I'd imagine Avalon customers are not newbies and have BTC beforehand way before the price spike. Batch 1 is actually more expensive than Batch 3 BTC wise.



1.) Batch 2 was more expensive because shipping was included in the price. Batch 1 was $1299 + shipping.2.) BFL won't ship anytime soon. You're welcome to prove me wrong. http://bitbet.us/bet/307/bfl-will-deliver-asic-devices-before-july-1st/ 3.) Avalon could have mined themselves, and keep all the profit. Yet they are selling to the public. It's ludicrous to think that they would set up a ponzi like structure with their orders. Due to the insane ROI of Avalons, 88 BTC seems like a bargain still. 4.) I'd imagine Avalon customers are not newbies and have BTC beforehand way before the price spike. Batch 1 is actually more expensive than Batch 3 BTC wise. It seemed like a good idea at the time.

Rampion



Offline



Activity: 1120

Merit: 1000







LegendaryActivity: 1120Merit: 1000 Re: The latest Avalon announcement in China(Translated). Batch #3, price and more. March 20, 2013, 02:45:14 PM

Last edit: March 20, 2013, 03:12:21 PM by Rampion #23 Quote from: Bowjob on March 20, 2013, 02:28:50 PM Quote from: Korbman on March 20, 2013, 02:16:57 PM Quote from: ShadesOfMarble on March 20, 2013, 02:01:38 PM Quote from: Aseras on March 20, 2013, 01:57:51 PM You can buy a BFL minirig for 500 btc, and delivery would probably be in the same timeframe. You can "buy" one, yes. But you are not going to get any ROI, because no working BFL ASIC hardware exists.

Avalon does exist and currently running units get an insane ROI.

You can "buy" one, yes. But you are not going to get any ROI,Avalon does exist and currently running units get an insane ROI.

A bit naive, don't you think? It's clear that BFL has been developing hardware..don't let their incompetence cloud your judgment. Anyway, we're not here to talk about BFL..this is an Avalon thread silly.



Seriously though, people really don't have a problem paying $7,000 for a 600w+ 80GH/s device? I also find it kind of funny that the buyers from Batch #1 paid the lowest price and are making the highest return on their investment. The Batch #2 price hike was expected...it was kind of like the "Fuck you, we're legit and you missed out on the first round".



But to triple the price for Batch #3 sort of solidifies the initial notion that they are indeed using preorder funds to complete the previous orders (it also fully explains why they "shipped" 2 months ago and are still behind on their first shipment). I imagine after selling out of Batch #3 they'll have enough money to get everything back on track again (financially anyways).

A bit naive, don't you think? It's clear that BFL has been developing hardware..don't letincompetence cloud your judgment. Anyway, we're not here to talk about BFL..this is an Avalon thread silly.Seriously though, people really don't have a problem paying $7,000 for a 600w+ 80GH/s device? I also find it kind of funny that the buyers from Batch #1 paid theand are making the. The Batch #2 price hike was expected...it was kind of like the "".But tothe price for Batch #3 sort of solidifies the initial notion that they are indeed using preorder funds to complete the previous orders (it also fully explains why they "shipped" 2 months ago and are still behind on their first shipment). I imagine after selling out of Batch #3 they'll have enough money to get everything back on track again (financially anyways).

1.) Batch 2 was more expensive because shipping was included in the price. Batch 1 was $1299 + shipping.

2.) BFL won't ship anytime soon. You're welcome to prove me wrong.

3.) Avalon could have mined themselves, and keep all the profit. Yet they are selling to the public. It's ludicrous to think that they would set up a ponzi like structure with their orders. Due to the insane ROI of Avalons, 88 BTC seems like a bargain still. 4.) I'd imagine Avalon customers are not newbies and have BTC beforehand way before the price spike. Batch 1 is actually more expensive than Batch 3 BTC wise.





1.) Batch 2 was more expensive because shipping was included in the price. Batch 1 was $1299 + shipping.2.) BFL won't ship anytime soon. You're welcome to prove me wrong. http://bitbet.us/bet/307/bfl-will-deliver-asic-devices-before-july-1st/ 3.) Avalon could have mined themselves, and keep all the profit. Yet they are selling to the public. It's ludicrous to think that they would set up a ponzi like structure with their orders. Due to the insane ROI of Avalons, 88 BTC seems like a bargain still. 4.) I'd imagine Avalon customers are not newbies and have BTC beforehand way before the price spike. Batch 1 is actually more expensive than Batch 3 BTC wise.

Point 1) is correct.



Point 2), is pure gambling. We don't know if BFL won't ship before July. They may, or may not.



Point 3), I don't see a +6.000usd or 90btc 67GHs machine as a "bargain" given the timeframe. A "bargain" is what batch #1 customers got. They are the ones doing an insane ROI. Batch #2 customers also got an excellent deal. But when the 1.500 AVALON units will be deployed we will have 3x the current difficulty, and therefore ROI will come in 2/3 months. Add to the equation more hashing power deployed by ASICminer, and ROI may come much later. If BFL also deploys a fraction of their preorders, AVALON batch #3 customers are screwed, and the stakes are high (again: 6.000usd for a 67GHs unit).



I agree with point 4). If you have mined/bought hundreds of btc when the difficulty/exchange rate was lower, AVALON is definitely a bet you can afford to take. But if you have to exchange usd for btc, or you have a modest amount of btc, then it's much safer to hold on your existing coins and buy more with your fiat. Gambling most of your btc on this, or exchanging +6.000usd for an AVALON, is too risky in my opinion. It's a gamble I wouldn't take, because in any case the profit (if there's at all) will be modest. Point 1) is correct.Point 2), is pure gambling. We don't know if BFL won't ship before July. They may, or may not.Point 3), I don't see a +6.000usd or 90btc 67GHs machine as a "bargain" given the timeframe. A "bargain" is what batch #1 customers got. They are the ones doing an insane ROI. Batch #2 customers also got an excellent deal. But when the 1.500 AVALON units will be deployed we will have 3x the current difficulty, and therefore ROI will come in 2/3 months. Add to the equation more hashing power deployed by ASICminer, and ROI may come much later. If BFL also deploys a fraction of their preorders, AVALON batch #3 customers are screwed, and the stakes are high (again: 6.000usd for a 67GHs unit).I agree with point 4). If you have mined/bought hundreds of btc when the difficulty/exchange rate was lower, AVALON is definitely a bet you can afford to take. But if you have to exchange usd for btc, or you have a modest amount of btc, then it's much safer to hold on your existing coins and buy more with your fiat. Gambling most of your btc on this, or exchanging +6.000usd for an AVALON, is too risky in my opinion. It's a gamble I wouldn't take, because in any case the profit (if there's at all) will be modest. PGP KEY

Rampion



Offline



Activity: 1120

Merit: 1000







LegendaryActivity: 1120Merit: 1000 Re: The latest Avalon announcement in China(Translated). Batch #3, price and more. March 20, 2013, 03:04:52 PM #29 Quote from: Aseras on March 20, 2013, 02:58:13 PM Quote from: Rampion on March 20, 2013, 02:53:10 PM Quote from: tigerfree on March 20, 2013, 02:49:56 PM .

/damn i though it will be 2000$ or something around it i think i will pass it

Hehe, we have to gambles now:



pay 90 btc for a unit you know exists, and that you will received sometime around June (and maybe sooner!)

pay 20 btc for a BFL unit you don't know if exists, and that they tell you that you will receive in July if ordered now (and most likely later!)



Both of them seems quite risky to me, but if I had enough coins bought cheap, I would take both

Hehe, we have to gambles now:pay 90 btc for a unit you know exists, and that you will received sometime around June (and maybe sooner!)pay 20 btc for a BFL unit you don't know if exists, and that they tell you that you will receive in July if ordered now (and most likely later!)Both of them seems quite risky to me, but if I had enough coins bought cheap, I would take both

you would still be better off buying 5 bfl units in the long term, even if it were another month or two delay.

you would still be better off buying 5 bfl units in the long term, even if it were another month or two delay.

That's true, the fact here is that "a two months delay" seems VERY optimistic. But with that 400% price increase of Avalon, I'm sure that a lot of people who saved money for AVALON batch three will prefer to take the gamble with BFL just because if you loose, you will loose a lot less (let's don't forget also that BFL units are supposed to be way less "power hungry").



In any case, greed is taking over.



Normally, first batch should be more expensive, third batch much cheaper, because obviously ROI diminishes day by day. But as AVALON is, at the moment, the only proved legit ASIC company (apart from ASICminer, who don't sell their units), they can set up the price they want. I'm sure they will sell at least 50% of the third batch at those insane prices because, again, greed is taking over



That's true, the fact here is that "a two months delay" seems VERY optimistic. But with that 400% price increase of Avalon, I'm sure that a lot of people who saved money for AVALON batch three will prefer to take the gamble with BFL just because if you loose, you will loose a lot less (let's don't forget also that BFL units are supposed to be way less "power hungry").In any case,Normally, first batch should be more expensive, third batch much cheaper, because obviously ROI diminishes day by day. But as AVALON is, at the moment, the only proved legit ASIC company (apart from ASICminer, who don't sell their units), they can set up the price they want. I'm sure they will sell at least 50% of the third batch at those insane prices because, again, PGP KEY

Aseras



Offline



Activity: 658

Merit: 500







Hero MemberActivity: 658Merit: 500 Re: The latest Avalon announcement in China(Translated). Batch #3, price and more. March 20, 2013, 03:27:55 PM #35 Quote from: Bowjob on March 20, 2013, 03:11:16 PM Quote from: Miner99er on March 20, 2013, 03:09:51 PM Well, I thought I would jump into Avalon Batch three... but my jaw hit the floor when I saw the price. What the bloody hell?



Going all in on BFL seems like a better idea than this shit. $5k for a box that cost initally $1299. Someone decided they don't want customers.



You'd rather buy a box of fans than something that actually exists?

You'd rather buy a box of fans than something that actually exists?

I think that while BFL lost the "race" to release first, and the pole position, I think long term they will get their product out in some form. Even if they don't come out until august, its a better deal. Even at double or quadruple the power its still a better deal.



I was considering buying 10-20 batch 3 units. However at this price it's not gonna happen I'd rather just lock in a minirig and wait. One small unit, much less power and much more refined.



I'm in it for the long term and not for a quick buck. I'm a university researcher.



Asking for a price in btc, ok. Thats the idea of btc. Asking for a huge amount basing it on expected ROI is absurd. Bitcoin value could crash tomorrow. I think that while BFL lost the "race" to release first, and the pole position, I think long term they will get their product out in some form. Even if they don't come out until august, its a better deal. Even at double or quadruple the power its still a better deal.I was considering buying 10-20 batch 3 units. However at this price it's not gonna happen I'd rather just lock in a minirig and wait. One small unit, much less power and much more refined.I'm in it for the long term and not for a quick buck. I'm a university researcher.Asking for a price in btc, ok. Thats the idea of btc. Asking for a huge amount basing it on expected ROI is absurd. Bitcoin value could crash tomorrow.

RoboCoder



Offline



Activity: 387

Merit: 250





Save A Life, Adopt a Pet Today!







Sr. MemberActivity: 387Merit: 250Save A Life, Adopt a Pet Today! Re: The latest Avalon announcement in China(Translated). Batch #3, price and more. March 20, 2013, 03:54:02 PM #39 I don't think any of the ROI calculations matter that much. The batches sell out super fast. Therefore there is demand. Demand means they can ask more money for the product - which is even more true since they effectively have a monopoly. Does anyone believe that even with the price that the 600 won't sell out within, lets say a day or so, instead of the 1 hour.. thats all i see as the difference.



I think they are just taking advantage of their position. Which is certainly not unique to just the Bitcoin world.





Dalkore



Offline



Activity: 1330

Merit: 1013





Mining since 2010 & Hosting since 2012







LegendaryActivity: 1330Merit: 1013Mining since 2010 & Hosting since 2012 Re: The latest Avalon announcement in China(Translated). Batch #3, price and more. March 20, 2013, 04:10:47 PM

Last edit: March 20, 2013, 06:06:55 PM by Dalkore #44 Thoughts: Glad for the update.



Batch #3: I do think the price is a little steep, I was expecting in the $3-4,000 range. Yes they could of maintained the price but they do deserve a profit for the hard work they provided. I do think that at current exchanges rates for USD, they are trying to limit single large orders. They also could raise the price because they are now developing Generation 2 Avalon on a more efficient chip and upfront costs are even more capital intensive (this is what I think).



I likely will be participating in Batch #3 as well, I want Avalon to continue development so its worth the price if they continue to develop. Yifu is correct that Batch #1 customer are the real heroes by putting their money where there mouth was when BFL was showing the Big Guns. Heck, I am going to start learning Mandarin tonight (Rosetta doesn't offer Cantonese ).





Dalkore Glad for the update.: I do think the price is a little steep, I was expecting in the $3-4,000 range. Yes they could of maintained the price but they do deserve a profit for the hard work they provided. I do think that at current exchanges rates for USD, they are trying to limit single large orders. They also could raise the price because they are now developing Generation 2 Avalon on a more efficient chip and upfront costs are even more capital intensive ().I likely will be participating in Batch #3 as well, I want Avalon to continue development so its worth the price if they continue to develop. Yifu is correct that Batch #1 customer are the real heroes by putting their money where there mouth was when BFL was showing the Big Guns. Heck, I am going to start learning Mandarin tonight (Rosetta doesn't offer Cantonese).Dalkore Hosting: Low as $60.00 per KW - Link

Transaction List: jayson3 +5 - ColdHardMetal +3 - Nolo +2 - CoinHoarder +1 - Elxiliath +1 - tymm0 +1 - Johnniewalker +1 - Oscer +1 - Davidj411 +1 - BitCoiner2012 +1 - dstruct2k +1 - Philj +1 - camolist +1 - exahash +1 - Littleshop +1 - Severian +1 - DebitMe +1 - lepenguin +1 - StringTheory +1 - amagimetals +1 - jcoin200 +1 - serp +1 - klintay +1 - -droid- +1 - FlutterPie +1 jayson3 +5 - ColdHardMetal +3 - Nolo +2 - CoinHoarder +1 - Elxiliath +1 - tymm0 +1 - Johnniewalker +1 - Oscer +1 - Davidj411 +1 - BitCoiner2012 +1 - dstruct2k +1 - Philj +1 - camolist +1 - exahash +1 - Littleshop +1 - Severian +1 - DebitMe +1 - lepenguin +1 - StringTheory +1 - amagimetals +1 - jcoin200 +1 - serp +1 - klintay +1 - -droid- +1 - FlutterPie +1

m3whiteknight



Offline



Activity: 95

Merit: 10







MemberActivity: 95Merit: 10 Re: The latest Avalon announcement in China(Translated). Batch #3, price and more. March 20, 2013, 05:19:06 PM #49 their batch 2 is not even ship yet, heck even some of their batch 1 customer still have not receive their unit. If we order now, we will not get it until 3 months later or more . By that time Asicminer put up their 100 terahash and Avalon unit will make 0.5 coin a days, killing all ROI.





If Avalon say they has one in stock ready to ship RIGHT NOW , then it may be worth it. But we all know that WILL NOT happen



3 or MORE months to get one , totally not worth it



wow 88 coins for one, five grand ?their batch 2 is not even ship yet, heck even some of their batch 1 customer still have not receive their unit. If we order now, we will not get it until 3 months later or more . By that time Asicminer put up their 100 terahash and Avalon unit will make 0.5 coin a days, killing all ROI.If Avalon say they has one in stock ready to ship RIGHT NOW , then it may be worth it. But we all know that WILL NOT happen3 or MORE months to get one , totally not worth it

kaerf



Offline



Activity: 631

Merit: 500







Hero MemberActivity: 631Merit: 500 Re: The latest Avalon announcement in China(Translated). Batch #3, price and more. March 20, 2013, 05:33:52 PM

Last edit: March 20, 2013, 05:44:30 PM by kaerf #51 BTC 114++ for a batch 1 unit and 75+ for a batch 2 unit. just to put it in perspective.



At BTC 88, it's probably going to take somewhere around 4-6 month (if not more) to make back the initial investment. that's still pretty good, but 6 months is a long time in the bitcoin world....who knows what will happen. by july we're supposedly going to see the addition of ASICMiner 50TH, 28nm ASICS, 100TH and BFL (if they ever deliver). BTC 88 at this point in time is certainly a big risk. i will probably avoid batch 3 and risk the alternatives. i'm all about the cheapest $/GH now FYI...i paid+ for a batch 1 unit and 75+ for a batch 2 unit. just to put it in perspective.At88, it's probably going to take somewhere around 4-6 month (if not more) to make back the initial investment. that's still pretty good, but 6 months is a long time in the bitcoin world....who knows what will happen. by july we'regoing to see the addition of ASICMiner 50TH, 28nm ASICS, 100TH and BFL (if they ever deliver).88 at this point in time is certainly a big risk. i will probably avoid batch 3 and risk the alternatives. i'm all about the cheapest $/GH now

Aseras



Offline



Activity: 658

Merit: 500







Hero MemberActivity: 658Merit: 500 Re: The latest Avalon announcement in China(Translated). Batch #3, price and more. March 20, 2013, 05:45:04 PM #52 Quote from: m3whiteknight on March 20, 2013, 05:19:06 PM their batch 2 is not even ship yet, heck even some of their batch 1 customer still have not receive their unit. If we order now, we will not get it until 3 months later or more . By that time Asicminer put up their 100 terahash and Avalon unit will make 0.5 coin a days, killing all ROI.





If Avalon say they has one in stock ready to ship RIGHT NOW , then it may be worth it. But we all know that WILL NOT happen



3 or MORE months to get one , totally not worth it





wow 88 coins for one, five grand ?their batch 2 is not even ship yet, heck even some of their batch 1 customer still have not receive their unit. If we order now, we will not get it until 3 months later or more . By that time Asicminer put up their 100 terahash and Avalon unit will make 0.5 coin a days, killing all ROI.If Avalon say they has one in stock ready to ship RIGHT NOW , then it may be worth it. But we all know that WILL NOT happen3 or MORE months to get one , totally not worth it

I have a batch one and batch 2 order. Still haven't received my batch one, and I was in the first wave. I did get an email from yifu letting me know my batch one order was shipped.



I agree with you. If they were ready to ship right now, it may be worth the 80+btc. But with an unknown wait time, and having to harass and plead to get any answers, and still not a tracking number for my batch one, no way.



I just cant justify the risk, and the cost of batch 3. Which sucks because I was heavily considering going "all in" and buying 10+ units. I have a batch one and batch 2 order. Still haven't received my batch one, and I was in the first wave. I did get an email from yifu letting me know my batch one order was shipped.I agree with you. If they were ready to ship right now, it may be worth the 80+btc. But with an unknown wait time, and having to harass and plead to get any answers, and still not a tracking number for my batch one, no way.I just cant justify the risk, and the cost of batch 3. Which sucks because I was heavily considering going "all in" and buying 10+ units.

CrazyGuy



Offline



Activity: 1973

Merit: 1002









LegendaryActivity: 1973Merit: 1002 Re: The latest Avalon announcement in China(Translated). Batch #3, price and more. March 20, 2013, 06:06:36 PM #59 Quote from: Aseras on March 20, 2013, 03:27:55 PM ...

Asking for a price in btc, ok. Thats the idea of btc. Asking for a huge amount basing it on expected ROI is absurd. Bitcoin value could crash tomorrow.



Actually, asking for 88 BTC doesn't change the fact that you would make your 88 BTC back in a few months, given that there is no consumer based competition with a working product. If BTC price crashes, then the 88 BTC you mined with the device is just worth less.



Now here's the real question, if BTC value goes down to $10 two days after they start accepting batch 3 preorders, are they going to honor the 88 BTC price, or have a sudden change of heart and start charging $1500 again? At some point, merchants are going to need to list their products in static BTC prices to stabilize the currency. I don't think that time is now, but you can't blame them for trying. A high static BTC price at this point is going to devalue BTC and possibly start driving the exchange rate down.



I still think they are going to sell out though, barring some really good news from BFL this week. Actually, asking for 88 BTC doesn't change the fact that you would make your 88 BTC back in a few months, given that there is no consumer based competition with a working product. If BTC price crashes, then the 88 BTC you mined with the device is just worth less.Now here's the real question, if BTC value goes down to $10 two days after they start accepting batch 3 preorders, are they going to honor the 88 BTC price, or have a sudden change of heart and start charging $1500 again? At some point, merchants are going to need to list their products in static BTC prices to stabilize the currency. I don't think that time is now, but you can't blame them for trying. A high static BTC price at this point is going to devalue BTC and possibly start driving the exchange rate down.I still think they are going to sell out though, barring some really good news from BFL this week. ASICPuppy.net ASIC Mining Hardware and Accessories - 2Pacs in stock!

CrazyGuy



Offline



Activity: 1973

Merit: 1002









LegendaryActivity: 1973Merit: 1002 Re: The latest Avalon announcement in China(Translated). Batch #3, price and more. March 20, 2013, 06:14:46 PM #61 Quote from: Minor Miner on March 20, 2013, 06:09:42 PM Quote from: CrazyBlane on March 20, 2013, 06:06:36 PM Quote from: Aseras on March 20, 2013, 03:27:55 PM ...

Asking for a price in btc, ok. Thats the idea of btc. Asking for a huge amount basing it on expected ROI is absurd. Bitcoin value could crash tomorrow.



Actually, asking for 88 BTC doesn't change the fact that you would make your 88 BTC back in a few months, given that there is no consumer based competition with a working product. If BTC price crashes, then the 88 BTC you mined with the device is just worth less.



Now here's the real question, if BTC value goes down to $10 two days after they start accepting batch 3 preorders, are they going to honor the 88 BTC price, or have a sudden change of heart and start charging $1500 again? At some point, merchants are going to need to list their products in static BTC prices to stabilize the currency. I don't think that time is now, but you can't blame them for trying. A high static BTC price at this point is going to devalue BTC and possibly start driving the exchange rate down.



I still think they are going to sell out though, barring some really good news from BFL this week.

Actually, asking for 88 BTC doesn't change the fact that you would make your 88 BTC back in a few months, given that there is no consumer based competition with a working product. If BTC price crashes, then the 88 BTC you mined with the device is just worth less.Now here's the real question, if BTC value goes down to $10 two days after they start accepting batch 3 preorders, are they going to honor the 88 BTC price, or have a sudden change of heart and start charging $1500 again? At some point, merchants are going to need to list their products in static BTC prices to stabilize the currency. I don't think that time is now, but you can't blame them for trying. A high static BTC price at this point is going to devalue BTC and possibly start driving the exchange rate down.I still think they are going to sell out though, barring some really good news from BFL this week.

The only problem with your analysis is that for it to apply to me (or anyone else), you must have the 88 BTC. If you use EU or USD to buy the 88 BTC, then the vol really does matter to the people and they have FX risk.

The only problem with your analysis is that for it to apply to me (or anyone else), you must have the 88 BTC. If you use EU or USD to buy the 88 BTC, then the vol really does matter to the people and they have FX risk.

What if BTC value goes down to $10 tomorrow and you buy 88 coins for $880? Assuming Avalon would still sell for 88 BTC(they wouldn't), it wouldn't change the fact that you are going to mine those 88 BTC back in a few months with the device. If you believe BTC value is going to keep going up, it's a no-brainer to buy. What if BTC value goes down to $10 tomorrow and you buy 88 coins for $880? Assuming Avalon would still sell for 88 BTC(they wouldn't), it wouldn't change the fact that you are going to mine those 88 BTC back in a few months with the device. If you believe BTC value is going to keep going up, it's a no-brainer to buy. ASICPuppy.net ASIC Mining Hardware and Accessories - 2Pacs in stock!

jayeeyee



Offline



Activity: 191

Merit: 110









Full MemberActivity: 191Merit: 110 Re: The latest Avalon announcement in China(Translated). Batch #3, price and more. March 20, 2013, 06:17:01 PM #62 For $5+ grand, I might as well get suckered into BFL and buy two (2) 60GHs units for less than 3 grand for a total hashing powah of 120+ "

(supposedly) GHs. Both brand would probably (wishful thinking) ship around the same time. Dubya tee ef?



I think Avalon are taking advantage of BS Labs lack of info on their status and failure to provide their units on time. This my friend, is the epitome of what "Time is money" truly means.

m3whiteknight



Offline



Activity: 95

Merit: 10







MemberActivity: 95Merit: 10 Re: The latest Avalon announcement in China(Translated). Batch #3, price and more. March 20, 2013, 06:34:38 PM #67 haha I was thinking the same way too

88 coin per unit

600 unit for sale = 52800 coin



60 dollar a coin = $3168000



that is 3 million dollar pumping to the market, even some of the buyer already some coin in their wallet so let say half of that 3 millions going to the market today, it will drive the BTC price up for sure.



If this is correct, that also mean after the avalon sale is over and people do not need to buy BTC to purchase avalon any more and BTC price WILL drop





bcpokey



Offline



Activity: 602

Merit: 500









Hero MemberActivity: 602Merit: 500 Re: The latest Avalon announcement in China(Translated). Batch #3, price and more. March 20, 2013, 06:45:21 PM #71 Interesting to me how many people keep rehashing the (important) points above, but it has mostly been said so i wont add on, howevere no one has touched on the question of payment processing.



Avalon set up with a payment processor, I imagine because they were woefully unprepared and unable to properly handle massive order processing (resulting in "shipping" delays). However they are dissatisfied with whatever hassles usd brings to a Chinese business (and the fact they probably missed out on 1M+ dollars they would have accrued from rising btc value ), and pricing in btc. This means they are skipping a payment processor it seems? On a new batch that is equal in size to both previous batches combined, and with a price point virtually guaranteeing no large single orders, without having even started pushing out the second batch (and maybe not even batch 1? Most still haven't received anything).



To say that things poor would be an understatement. Perhaps they will use some of that capital to hire staff? That would be interesting. Hopefully they will touch on that before the presage goes up.

Rampion



Offline



Activity: 1120

Merit: 1000







LegendaryActivity: 1120Merit: 1000 Re: The latest Avalon announcement in China(Translated). Batch #3, price and more. March 20, 2013, 07:52:25 PM #83 Quote from: Dalkore on March 20, 2013, 07:42:50 PM Quote from: BitSyncom on March 20, 2013, 07:36:39 PM Quote from: repentance on March 20, 2013, 07:06:48 PM Quote from: shibaji on March 20, 2013, 06:54:49 PM

I really wish the BTC to crash hard just after Avalon starts taking order. We shall see what happens to their BTC 88 - 115 payment plan. Greedy bastards.



How are they any more greedy than miners? Based on this thread, miners themselves have no confidence in BTC and view it only as a means to earn USD.

How are they any more greedy than miners? Based on this thread, miners themselves have no confidence in BTC and view it only as a means to earn USD.

Bwahahaha, this the exact reason why I don't respect some of my potential customers, I don't even want money from these people. In afterthought, raising the price it must stopped a lot people were purchasing because how brainless the profit was, now there is some math and faith involved.

Bwahahaha, this the exact reason why I don't respect some of my potential customers, I don't even want money from these people. In afterthought, raising the price it must stopped a lot people were purchasing because how brainless the profit was, now there is some math and faith involved.

I assume that was the feeling. Many are finding out what happens when you deal with a principled business person. I was "really?" at first, but then after thinking about it, it didn't seem bad. With a ROI of 6-12 months, you know they will keep the gear on the network for that time, keeps it just the much more secure. Hope people are looking at other motives than just profits.

I assume that was the feeling. Many are finding out what happens when you deal with a principled business person. I was "really?" at first, but then after thinking about it, it didn't seem bad. With a ROI of 6-12 months, you know they will keep the gear on the network for that time, keeps it just the much more secure. Hope people are looking at other motives than just profits.

Come on. They are just pushing their profit to the maximum giving the circumstance that right now they have no competition, that's all. They even acknowledge that now ROI is not guaranteed, you need "math and faith". So the current pricing + the greed taking over will make them sell out the units, making a huge profit, while is quite possible (but not certain) that the batch #3 buyers will not even recoup their costs.



That said, I think they did a great move for themselves: they set the right price for people still buying the whole batch, in perfect correlation with the current exchange rate. If they priced the units let's say a 20% higher, maybe they would have a problem selling all the units. Come on. They are just pushing their profit to the maximum giving the circumstance that right now they have no competition, that's all. They even acknowledge that now ROI is not guaranteed, you need "math and faith". So the current pricing + the greed taking over will make them sell out the units, making a, while is quite possible (but not certain) that the batch #3 buyers will not even recoup their costs.That said, I think they did a great move for themselves: they set the right price for people still buying the whole batch, in perfect correlation with the current exchange rate. If they priced the units let's say a 20% higher, maybe they would have a problem selling all the units. PGP KEY

wknight



Offline



Activity: 889

Merit: 1000





Bitcoin calls me an Orphan







LegendaryActivity: 889Merit: 1000Bitcoin calls me an Orphan Re: The latest Avalon announcement in China(Translated). Batch #3, price and more. March 20, 2013, 07:53:07 PM #84 So many people are thinking about short term profits. These are ASIC's. They should last for a very long time and you will be compensated for your work in keeping the bitcoin network secure.



If the price seems too high then dont order. Its simple as that. Supply and Demand.



Look at it this way. Is it right for someone to purchase a unit from Avalon and throw it up on ebay and sell it for $15,000?



Only thing I can say as its a little disappointing that Shipment dates on batch #2 will be missed. I can understand getting burned out from working too much. However taking a vacation after batch #2 was finished and Batch 3 ship dates being pushed out for vacation time seems a little more reasonable.



But that's the only thing that anyone has a right to bitch about. No one has a right to bitch about price. Don't like it.. don't buy it. Mining Both Bitcoin and Litecoin.

shibaji



Offline



Activity: 308

Merit: 102









Full MemberActivity: 308Merit: 102 Re: The latest Avalon announcement in China(Translated). Batch #3, price and more. March 20, 2013, 07:54:21 PM #85 Quote from: BitSyncom on March 20, 2013, 07:46:59 PM Quote from: shibaji on March 20, 2013, 07:44:11 PM



Like I said, I really wish the BTC to crash once you have your ordering started - will see where your lecture goes.



Haha, so much hate, what did you miss out on batch #1 and 2 or something? Willing to make a comment based on the negative outcome of Bitcoin as a whole just to get at me.

Haha, so much hate, what did you miss out on batch #1 and 2 or something? Willing to make a comment based on the negative outcome of Bitcoin as a whole just to get at me.

I do not hate you. I do not even know you. I am a new comer in BTC market, and certainly was prepping my investment based on previous batch prices, so I expected something in $1800 range. I do not have BTC mined from earlier, so purchasing BTC with usd at 64+ is out of my capacity.



With the strategy change from accepting USD to BTC , potential customers and newcomers like me are screwed, without any hope to get into mining, since other than ASIC every other h/w is outdated.



The strategy of taking BTC is making sure, the people who bought batch 1 or 2 will keep on buying with the produced BTC (or the old time miners), and does not welcome new comers. Are you expanding the market with that ?



To be fair, why don't you give both choice of paying in BTC , or equivalent in USD ? Then there would be a fair chance. It is extremely hard to collect USD and then convert to BTC . Does that make sense ?



What I have been saying is purely my feeling as a new entrant in the market, who feels that he is out of option, just because this pay with BTC thing.



Again, I do not have anything personal with you or anyone at Avalon, so please do not take in that way. I do not hate you. I do not even know you. I am a new comer inmarket, and certainly was prepping my investment based on previous batch prices, so I expected something in $1800 range. I do not havemined from earlier, so purchasingwith usd at 64+ is out of my capacity.With the strategy change from accepting USD to, potential customers and newcomers like me are screwed, without any hope to get into mining, since other than ASIC every other h/w is outdated.The strategy of takingis making sure, the people who bought batch 1 or 2 will keep on buying with the produced(or the old time miners), and does not welcome new comers. Are you expanding the market with that ?To be fair, why don't you give both choice of paying in, or equivalent in USD ? Then there would be a fair chance. It is extremely hard to collect USD and then convert to. Does that make sense ?What I have been saying is purely my feeling as a new entrant in the market, who feels that he is out of option, just because this pay withthing.Again, I do not have anything personal with you or anyone at Avalon, so please do not take in that way.

luffy



Offline



Activity: 607

Merit: 500









Hero MemberActivity: 607Merit: 500 Re: The latest Avalon announcement in China(Translated). Batch #3, price and more. March 20, 2013, 08:05:07 PM #90

i am sure whoever sell it, will cry later

even the batch3 will get ROI during summer time IF BFL doesn't come out until then 15000$ is a one month profit from an Avalon now days (maybe less than a month)i am sure whoever sell it, will cry latereven the batch3 will get ROI during summer time IF BFL doesn't come out until then

Dalkore



Offline



Activity: 1330

Merit: 1013





Mining since 2010 & Hosting since 2012







LegendaryActivity: 1330Merit: 1013Mining since 2010 & Hosting since 2012 Re: The latest Avalon announcement in China(Translated). Batch #3, price and more. March 20, 2013, 08:07:34 PM #91 Quote from: Rampion on March 20, 2013, 07:52:25 PM Quote from: Dalkore on March 20, 2013, 07:42:50 PM Quote from: BitSyncom on March 20, 2013, 07:36:39 PM Quote from: repentance on March 20, 2013, 07:06:48 PM Quote from: shibaji on March 20, 2013, 06:54:49 PM

I really wish the BTC to crash hard just after Avalon starts taking order. We shall see what happens to their BTC 88 - 115 payment plan. Greedy bastards.



How are they any more greedy than miners? Based on this thread, miners themselves have no confidence in BTC and view it only as a means to earn USD.

How are they any more greedy than miners? Based on this thread, miners themselves have no confidence in BTC and view it only as a means to earn USD.

Bwahahaha, this the exact reason why I don't respect some of my potential customers, I don't even want money from these people. In afterthought, raising the price it must stopped a lot people were purchasing because how brainless the profit was, now there is some math and faith involved.

Bwahahaha, this the exact reason why I don't respect some of my potential customers, I don't even want money from these people. In afterthought, raising the price it must stopped a lot people were purchasing because how brainless the profit was, now there is some math and faith involved.

I assume that was the feeling. Many are finding out what happens when you deal with a principled business person. I was "really?" at first, but then after thinking about it, it didn't seem bad. With a ROI of 6-12 months, you know they will keep the gear on the network for that time, keeps it just the much more secure. Hope people are looking at other motives than just profits.

I assume that was the feeling. Many are finding out what happens when you deal with a principled business person. I was "really?" at first, but then after thinking about it, it didn't seem bad. With a ROI of 6-12 months, you know they will keep the gear on the network for that time, keeps it just the much more secure. Hope people are looking at other motives than just profits.

Come on. They are just pushing their profit to the maximum giving the circumstance that right now they have no competition, that's all. They even acknowledge that now ROI is not guaranteed, you need "math and faith". So the current pricing + the greed taking over will make them sell out the units, making a huge profit, while is quite possible (but not certain) that the batch #3 buyers will not even recoup their costs.



That said, I think they did a great move for themselves: they set the right price for people still buying the whole batch, in perfect correlation with the current exchange rate. If they priced the units let's say a 20% higher, maybe they would have a problem selling all the units.

Come on. They are just pushing their profit to the maximum giving the circumstance that right now they have no competition, that's all. They even acknowledge that now ROI is not guaranteed, you need "math and faith". So the current pricing + the greed taking over will make them sell out the units, making a, while is quite possible (but not certain) that the batch #3 buyers will not even recoup their costs.That said, I think they did a great move for themselves: they set the right price for people still buying the whole batch, in perfect correlation with the current exchange rate. If they priced the units let's say a 20% higher, maybe they would have a problem selling all the units.

I just think your not putting yourself in their shoes. For the timetable they are delivering and BFL not giving guidance, it is correctly priced for the time being. You need to look long term and think about why you are purchasing these units. Am I tantalized about the prospects of getting a great ROI, of course but I am also prepare to run these units over 1-2 years+ if I need too and then upgrade to Gen2+.



I believe Avalon will at at this for a while and I know they have tricks up their sleeves so in the end you need to ask yourself, do you trust BitSyncom/Avalon, their intentions and principles or not? Yes, like any one else, they could choose to totally screw us over but that is the risk you have to bear or not. At the point, it doesn't matter to me, I have made my decision and we will see how my faith placed in their company will pan out. I feel I have made the right choice and continuing to support them will be the right choice for me. If I am wrong, I will be the first to admit it as well and learn.



I just think your not putting yourself in their shoes. For the timetable they are delivering and BFL not giving guidance, it is correctly priced for the time being. You need to look long term and think about why you are purchasing these units. Am I tantalized about the prospects of getting a great ROI, of course but I am also prepare to run these units over 1-2 years+ if I need too and then upgrade to Gen2+.I believe Avalon will at at this for a while and I know they have tricks up their sleeves so in the end you need to ask yourself, do you trust BitSyncom/Avalon, their intentions and principles or not? Yes, like any one else, they could choose to totally screw us over but that is the. At the point, it doesn't matter to me, I have made my decision and we will see how my faith placed in their company will pan out. I feel I have made the right choice and continuing to support them will be the right choice for me. If I am wrong, I will be the first to admit it as well and learn. Hosting: Low as $60.00 per KW - Link

Transaction List: jayson3 +5 - ColdHardMetal +3 - Nolo +2 - CoinHoarder +1 - Elxiliath +1 - tymm0 +1 - Johnniewalker +1 - Oscer +1 - Davidj411 +1 - BitCoiner2012 +1 - dstruct2k +1 - Philj +1 - camolist +1 - exahash +1 - Littleshop +1 - Severian +1 - DebitMe +1 - lepenguin +1 - StringTheory +1 - amagimetals +1 - jcoin200 +1 - serp +1 - klintay +1 - -droid- +1 - FlutterPie +1 jayson3 +5 - ColdHardMetal +3 - Nolo +2 - CoinHoarder +1 - Elxiliath +1 - tymm0 +1 - Johnniewalker +1 - Oscer +1 - Davidj411 +1 - BitCoiner2012 +1 - dstruct2k +1 - Philj +1 - camolist +1 - exahash +1 - Littleshop +1 - Severian +1 - DebitMe +1 - lepenguin +1 - StringTheory +1 - amagimetals +1 - jcoin200 +1 - serp +1 - klintay +1 - -droid- +1 - FlutterPie +1

BitSyncom



Offline



Activity: 336

Merit: 251



Avalon ASIC Team







Sr. MemberActivity: 336Merit: 251Avalon ASIC Team Re: The latest Avalon announcement in China(Translated). Batch #3, price and more. March 20, 2013, 08:10:33 PM #93 Quote from: shibaji on March 20, 2013, 07:54:21 PM Quote from: BitSyncom on March 20, 2013, 07:46:59 PM Quote from: shibaji on March 20, 2013, 07:44:11 PM



Like I said, I really wish the BTC to crash once you have your ordering started - will see where your lecture goes.



Haha, so much hate, what did you miss out on batch #1 and 2 or something? Willing to make a comment based on the negative outcome of Bitcoin as a whole just to get at me.

Haha, so much hate, what did you miss out on batch #1 and 2 or something? Willing to make a comment based on the negative outcome of Bitcoin as a whole just to get at me.

I do not hate you. I do not even know you. I am a new comer in BTC market, and certainly was prepping my investment based on previous batch prices, so I expected something in $1800 range. I do not have BTC mined from earlier, so purchasing BTC with usd at 64+ is out of my capacity.



With the strategy change from accepting USD to BTC , potential customers and newcomers like me are screwed, without any hope to get into mining, since other than ASIC every other h/w is outdated.



The strategy of taking BTC is making sure, the people who bought batch 1 or 2 will keep on buying with the produced BTC (or the old time miners), and does not welcome new comers. Are you expanding the market with that ?



To be fair, why don't you give both choice of paying in BTC , or equivalent in USD ? Then there would be a fair chance. It is extremely hard to collect USD and then convert to BTC . Does that make sense ?



What I have been saying is purely my feeling as a new entrant in the market, who feels that he is out of option, just because this pay with BTC thing.



Again, I do not have anything personal with you or anyone at Avalon, so please do not take in that way.

I do not hate you. I do not even know you. I am a new comer inmarket, and certainly was prepping my investment based on previous batch prices, so I expected something in $1800 range. I do not havemined from earlier, so purchasingwith usd at 64+ is out of my capacity.With the strategy change from accepting USD to, potential customers and newcomers like me are screwed, without any hope to get into mining, since other than ASIC every other h/w is outdated.The strategy of takingis making sure, the people who bought batch 1 or 2 will keep on buying with the produced(or the old time miners), and does not welcome new comers. Are you expanding the market with that ?To be fair, why don't you give both choice of paying in, or equivalent in USD ? Then there would be a fair chance. It is extremely hard to collect USD and then convert to. Does that make sense ?What I have been saying is purely my feeling as a new entrant in the market, who feels that he is out of option, just because this pay withthing.Again, I do not have anything personal with you or anyone at Avalon, so please do not take in that way.

I think once you stop thinking in USD the escape velocity will come. Why should we sell some hardware that will break even in a few days for $1800 while bitcoin continue to raise? Bitcoin mining should not be a small investment, nor it should be a quick way to make money, for network security purposes the ROI for these things should be AT LEAST 1 month based on a diff projection.



All Avalon is doing is giving people a chance to take up this investment based on a projection of 10,000,000 diff in May-June with a 1 month ROI time frame.





Quote Don't get me wrong, I respect what you did. You are legit, and you did an excellent job. I just don't think that difficulty will be 10,000,000 when the batch #3 units will reach the customers. Two questions:



- can you guarantee batch #3 delivery not later than May?

- wouldn't the difficulty reach at least 15,000,000 once all your 1,500 units are deployed? Wouldn't be much higher if ASICminer/BFL customers also start deploying more units?

- Yes, but I think this question can be answered based on how fast we ship batch #2.

- not really, the current diff already includes majority of batch #1's hashing power. but I also don't believe diff will only be 10,000,000 but like I said, it should take at least 1 month of ROI, realistically best case 1 month, regular projection of 3 month, which is about diff 30,000,000 which is more reasonable if BFL ships.



Oh also, expect a newsletter soon. I think once you stop thinking in USD the escape velocity will come. Why should we sell some hardware that will break even in a few days for $1800 while bitcoin continue to raise? Bitcoin mining should not be a small investment, nor it should be a quick way to make money, for network security purposes the ROI for these things should be AT LEAST 1 month based on a diff projection.All Avalon is doing is giving people a chance to take up this investment based on a projection of 10,000,000 diff in May-June with a 1 month ROI time frame.- Yes, but I think this question can be answered based on how fast we ship batch #2.- not really, the current diff already includes majority of batch #1's hashing power. but I also don't believe diff willbe 10,000,000 but like I said, it should take at least 1 month of ROI, realistically best case 1 month, regular projection of 3 month, which is about diff 30,000,000 which is more reasonableBFL ships.Oh also, expect a newsletter soon. `Yifu G. | Avalon ASIC Reference Design Release

shibaji



Offline



Activity: 308

Merit: 102









Full MemberActivity: 308Merit: 102 Re: The latest Avalon announcement in China(Translated). Batch #3, price and more. March 20, 2013, 08:14:13 PM #94 Quote from: BitSyncom on March 20, 2013, 08:10:33 PM

I think once you stop thinking in USD the escape velocity will come. Why should we sell some hardware that will break even in a few days for $1800 while bitcoin continue to raise? Bitcoin mining should not be a small investment, nor it should be a quick way to make money, for network security purposes the ROI for these things should be AT LEAST 1 month based on a diff projection.



All Avalon is doing is giving people a chance to take up this investment based on a projection of 10,000,000 diff in May-June with a 1 month ROI time frame.





That's fine - it is a business decision. Please consider attaching a USD price as well, and give an option to pay with USD - that will enable people to buy the unit who do not have enough BTC That's fine - it is a business decision. Please consider attaching a USD price as well, and give an option to pay with USD - that will enable people to buy the unit who do not have enough

shibaji



Offline



Activity: 308

Merit: 102









Full MemberActivity: 308Merit: 102 Re: The latest Avalon announcement in China(Translated). Batch #3, price and more. March 20, 2013, 08:20:40 PM #97 It is hard to go through bitinstant. Limit is 500 USD - now it is less than 10 BTC ; coinbase has limit 10 BTC and does not work most of the time. Buying from others has high % premium.



But anyway, it was just a request - if not possible, it would be good to know when ordering may begin, and give sufficient time to collect BTC through various means.

tigerfree



Offline



Activity: 1017

Merit: 1000







LegendaryActivity: 1017Merit: 1000 Re: The latest Avalon announcement in China(Translated). Batch #3, price and more. March 20, 2013, 08:28:08 PM #99 Quote from: PuertoLibre on March 20, 2013, 07:57:01 PM Quote from: tigerfree on March 20, 2013, 02:49:56 PM .

/damn i though it will be 2000$ or something around it i think i will pass it



I would not be surprised if a ton of Batch #1 customers start selling theirs. I know I am considering selling mine. One Ebay user is getting his sold for 15k....and he/she still doesn't have it in their hands.



I am going to guess the jump in price is a tremendous investment in the next process node they are aiming for. From the looks of it, they may well skip 90nm. (Pure speculation though)



---------------------



What is more interesting than anything else is what they intend to put out with respect to Gen 2 modules. Perhaps the same configuration but higher density chips I am hoping.



Are they still using the "Greater than 66Gh/s" language on their order page?

The funny thing is, alot of people will still buy.I would not be surprised if a ton of Batch #1 customers start selling theirs. I know I am considering selling mine. One Ebay user is getting his sold for 15k....and he/she still doesn't have it in their hands.I am going to guess the jump in price is a tremendous investment in the next process node they are aiming for. From the looks of it, they may well skip 90nm. (Pure speculation though)---------------------What is more interesting than anything else is what they intend to put out with respect to Gen 2 modules. Perhaps the same configuration but higher density chips I am hoping.Are they still using the "Greater than 66Gh/s" language on their order page?

if they sold more than 600 unit and for cheap it will be great profit for them and will help other people ,

just hire some worker and your work will done fast and cheap + profit if they sold more than 600 unit and for cheap it will be great profit for them and will help other people ,just hire some worker and your work will done fast and cheap + profit

ngzhang



Offline



Activity: 592

Merit: 501





We will stand and fight.







Hero MemberActivity: 592Merit: 501We will stand and fight. Re: The latest Avalon announcement in China(Translated). Batch #3, price and more. March 20, 2013, 08:35:46 PM #102 we discussed batch3 price for a long time.



personally, i do think this is a reasonable price.



batch#1: 1300USD + your trust, batch#2: 1500USD + your trust, batch#3 = ?



why batch 1 and batch2 customers will enjoy such a low USD price and extremly high profit? because they put their valuable trust on us.



last September, most of you think we have little chance to win, or could be a crappy scam, you don't buy.



this January, considerable people think we take Jeff down or just spent 400K to make a prototype, you don't buy.



now, everything on track, machines delivered to your hands are only a matter of time. you want to buy them at a same price or something like 2000USD.



OK, please tell me, what is the price of people most valuable things "trust" should be? 500USD? no, 5000USD at least.



as a core developer, i look upon all Avalons as my son. i will send them to who believe us, not the faithless or buzzard.

wknight



Offline



Activity: 889

Merit: 1000





Bitcoin calls me an Orphan







LegendaryActivity: 889Merit: 1000Bitcoin calls me an Orphan Re: The latest Avalon announcement in China(Translated). Batch #3, price and more. March 20, 2013, 08:42:06 PM #104



People are so quick to jump the gun on crying foul.



All investments are risky. Risk only what you can afford. Dont like the price.. dont purchase I bet they still sell out in a day. If people do less bitching and more crunching numbers they will see the ROI is still pretty fast.People are so quick to jump the gun on crying foul.All investments are risky. Risk only what you can afford. Dont like the price.. dont purchaseI bet they still sell out in a day. Mining Both Bitcoin and Litecoin.

gyverlb



Offline



Activity: 896

Merit: 1000









Hero MemberActivity: 896Merit: 1000 Re: The latest Avalon announcement in China(Translated). Batch #3, price and more. March 20, 2013, 08:43:04 PM #105 To put things in perspective, ASICminer shares, which are good for 155MH/s each when all of the 62TH/s are online (400000 shares total) are selling at 0.85BTC.



For 88BTC today, ASICminer gives you ~16GH/s.



That said if you really believe difficulty will be 10 000 000 in May/June for batch 3 after at least both ASICMiner 62TH/s and Avalon's first 2 batches (300 + 500) * 70GH/s = 56TH/s are online you will most probably be disappointed.



Even GPUs at current price would be profitable on a 10 000 000 difficulty, this would amount to a total of 150TH/s at a minimum with a difficulty in the 20 000 000 range (where even at the current price GPUs will start to retire).



That's assuming BFL and bitfury don't come up (late and early respectively) with another heap of TH/s or a private entity doesn't start (there were already some very large unidentified hashers on some pools for which at least ASICMiner denied being involved) mining with in-house ASICs. P2pool tuning guide

Trade BTC for /$ at

Tip: 17bdPfKXXvr7zETKRkPG14dEjfgBt5k2dd Trade BTC for /$ at bitcoin.de (referral) , it's cheaper and faster (acts as escrow and lets the buyers do bank transfers).Tip: 17bdPfKXXvr7zETKRkPG14dEjfgBt5k2dd

Aseras



Offline



Activity: 658

Merit: 500







Hero MemberActivity: 658Merit: 500 Re: The latest Avalon announcement in China(Translated). Batch #3, price and more. March 20, 2013, 08:55:06 PM #108 Quote from: ngzhang on March 20, 2013, 08:35:46 PM we discussed batch3 price for a long time.



personally, i do think this is a reasonable price.



batch#1: 1300USD + your trust, batch#2: 1500USD + your trust, batch#3 = ?



why batch 1 and batch2 customers will enjoy such a low USD price and extremly high profit? because they put their valuable trust on us.



last September, most of you think we have little chance to win, or could be a crappy scam, you don't buy.



this January, considerable people think we take Jeff down or just spent 400K to make a prototype, you don't buy.



now, everything on track, machines delivered to your hands are only a matter of time. you want to buy them at a same price or something like 2000USD.



OK, please tell me, what is the price of people most valuable things "trust" should be? 500USD? no, 5000USD at least.



as a core developer, i look upon all Avalons as my son. i will send them to who believe us, not the faithless or buzzard.



Double the price is reasonable, 4+ times the "price" with another indefinite wait is absurd. Especially considering the hiccups and the delays and the general stonewalling of the people ( like me ) who ordered batch1 and batch 2 and still have nothing but a few emails and promises of "its shipped".



If you want to sell them for 100btc and you have them in stock and are shipping the next day and guarantee delivery in a week, yeah maybe the price works for the profiteers.



If you want 100 btc and you jerk everyone around like the last 2 orders, ignore the users asking for very little information and don't maintain a delivery schedule, it not going to happen. People are going to go to BFL, get their SC or minirig in the same time frame and have smaller more efficient devices.



Avalon has a niche, exploit it a little, don't go raping people. The guys who are buying them mostly are people like me, not profiteers, we are hobbyists. I'm not rich. I'm a poor college researcher like you.



Dr Zhang you've always been a straight shooter and very knowledgeable. You guys deserve a profit. If you need a huge profit then just publically mine with half a batch and make your money there and sell the other half. Limit orders to one per person and premine the units for a week or whatever then ship them off. But demanding a ridiculous cost in btc up front with vague delivery and distant support is not what I've come to expect from team avalon. Double the price is reasonable, 4+ times the "price" with another indefinite wait is absurd. Especially considering the hiccups and the delays and the general stonewalling of the people ( like me ) who ordered batch1 and batch 2 and still have nothing but a few emails and promises of "its shipped".If you want to sell them for 100btc and you have them in stock and are shipping the next day and guarantee delivery in a week, yeah maybe the price works for the profiteers.If you want 100 btc and you jerk everyone around like the last 2 orders, ignore the users asking for very little information and don't maintain a delivery schedule, it not going to happen. People are going to go to BFL, get their SC or minirig in the same time frame and have smaller more efficient devices.Avalon has a niche, exploit it a little, don't go raping people. The guys who are buying them mostly are people like me, not profiteers, we are hobbyists. I'm not rich. I'm a poor college researcher like you.Dr Zhang you've always been a straight shooter and very knowledgeable. You guys deserve a profit. If you need a huge profit then just publically mine with half a batch and make your money there and sell the other half. Limit orders to one per person and premine the units for a week or whatever then ship them off. But demanding a ridiculous cost in btc up front with vague delivery and distant support is not what I've come to expect from team avalon.

Surpbitcoin



Offline



Activity: 112

Merit: 10









MemberActivity: 112Merit: 10 Re: The latest Avalon announcement in China(Translated). Batch #3, price and more. March 20, 2013, 08:57:21 PM #109 Quote from: ngzhang on March 20, 2013, 08:35:46 PM we discussed batch3 price for a long time.



personally, i do think this is a reasonable price.



batch#1: 1300USD + your trust, batch#2: 1500USD + your trust, batch#3 = ?



why batch 1 and batch2 customers will enjoy such a low USD price and extremly high profit? because they put their valuable trust on us.



last September, most of you think we have little chance to win, or could be a crappy scam, you don't buy.



this January, considerable people think we take Jeff down or just spent 400K to make a prototype, you don't buy.



now, everything on track, machines delivered to your hands are only a matter of time. you want to buy them at a same price or something like 2000USD.



OK, please tell me, what is the price of people most valuable things "trust" should be? 500USD? no, 5000USD at least.



as a core developer, i look upon all Avalons as my son. i will send them to who believe us, not the faithless or buzzard.



I love this!!!



I have bank accounts in Seoul South Korea. Will you take a wire transfer? And when will the orders open exactly.



Surp I love this!!!I have bank accounts in Seoul South Korea. Will you take a wire transfer? And when will the orders open exactly.Surp

tigerfree



Offline



Activity: 1017

Merit: 1000







LegendaryActivity: 1017Merit: 1000 Re: The latest Avalon announcement in China(Translated). Batch #3, price and more. March 20, 2013, 09:02:17 PM #110 Quote from: Aseras on March 20, 2013, 08:55:06 PM Quote from: ngzhang on March 20, 2013, 08:35:46 PM we discussed batch3 price for a long time.



personally, i do think this is a reasonable price.



batch#1: 1300USD + your trust, batch#2: 1500USD + your trust, batch#3 = ?



why batch 1 and batch2 customers will enjoy such a low USD price and extremly high profit? because they put their valuable trust on us.



last September, most of you think we have little chance to win, or could be a crappy scam, you don't buy.



this January, considerable people think we take Jeff down or just spent 400K to make a prototype, you don't buy.



now, everything on track, machines delivered to your hands are only a matter of time. you want to buy them at a same price or something like 2000USD.



OK, please tell me, what is the price of people most valuable things "trust" should be? 500USD? no, 5000USD at least.



as a core developer, i look upon all Avalons as my son. i will send them to who believe us, not the faithless or buzzard.



Double the price is reasonable, 4+ times the "price" with another indefinite wait is absurd. Especially considering the hiccups and the delays and the general stonewalling of the people ( like me ) who ordered batch1 and batch 2 and still have nothing but a few emails and promises of "its shipped".



If you want to sell them for 100btc and you have them in stock and are shipping the next day and guarantee delivery in a week, yeah maybe the price works for the profiteers.



If you want 100 btc and you jerk everyone around like the last 2 orders, ignore the users asking for very little information and don't maintain a delivery schedule, it not going to happen. People are going to go to BFL, get their SC or minirig in the same time frame and have smaller more efficient devices.



Avalon has a niche, exploit it a little, don't go raping people. The guys who are buying them mostly are people like me, not profiteers, we are hobbyists. I'm not rich. I'm a poor college researcher like you.



Dr Zhang you've always been a straight shooter and very knowledgeable. You guys deserve a profit. If you need a huge profit then just publically mine with half a batch and make your money there and sell the other half. Limit orders to one per person and premine the units for a week or whatever then ship them off. But demanding a ridiculous cost in btc up front with vague delivery and distant support is not what I've come to expect from team avalon.

Double the price is reasonable, 4+ times the "price" with another indefinite wait is absurd. Especially considering the hiccups and the delays and the general stonewalling of the people ( like me ) who ordered batch1 and batch 2 and still have nothing but a few emails and promises of "its shipped".If you want to sell them for 100btc and you have them in stock and are shipping the next day and guarantee delivery in a week, yeah maybe the price works for the profiteers.If you want 100 btc and you jerk everyone around like the last 2 orders, ignore the users asking for very little information and don't maintain a delivery schedule, it not going to happen. People are going to go to BFL, get their SC or minirig in the same time frame and have smaller more efficient devices.Avalon has a niche, exploit it a little, don't go raping people. The guys who are buying them mostly are people like me, not profiteers, we are hobbyists. I'm not rich. I'm a poor college researcher like you.Dr Zhang you've always been a straight shooter and very knowledgeable. You guys deserve a profit. If you need a huge profit then just publically mine with half a batch and make your money there and sell the other half. Limit orders to one per person and premine the units for a week or whatever then ship them off. But demanding a ridiculous cost in btc up front with vague delivery and distant support is not what I've come to expect from team avalon.

welll said +1 welll said +1

shibaji



Offline



Activity: 308

Merit: 102









Full MemberActivity: 308Merit: 102 Re: The latest Avalon announcement in China(Translated). Batch #3, price and more. March 20, 2013, 09:04:53 PM #111 The BTC strategy only works for the people who were early in the game and have chep BTC . For someone to buy now with USD is too much risk, given the fact that BTC can go to $10. So, here is my question, if I convert my USD to BTC somehow, and value of BTC crashes, will Avalon still honor the 88-115 BTC price ? If yes, that's good enough, otherwise, if that time price is increased or switched to USD, I have no way out.



After a lot of thought, converting USD to BTC now and purchasing batch 3 fails for me. Good for people with cheap BTC already. Good luck.

relm9



Offline



Activity: 840

Merit: 1000









Hero MemberActivity: 840Merit: 1000 Re: The latest Avalon announcement in China(Translated). Batch #3, price and more. March 20, 2013, 09:10:34 PM #112 Quote from: Korbman on March 20, 2013, 08:17:52 PM Speaking of security, since when is vastly raising the bar to entry better for the network in the long run? Instead of thousands of people saving their pennies to make a purchase, Avalon is instead tailoring to a hundred customers who have substantial amounts of cash lying around. This sort of circles back to my comment on their "business skills"...



Agreed. They are limiting the purchasing pool to companies, people already heavily invested in BTC or that already own an Avalon unit. Less diversification of hashing throughput.



But I'm not complaining. The price is fair given the market situation and no competition, so if that's what they want to charge so be it. The units will still sell out for reasons stated above. Your average joe can't afford $5k for one of these - even if ROI is good it would be irresponsible to buy one, regardless of how much faith you have in Bitcoin. Agreed. They are limiting the purchasing pool to companies, people already heavily invested in BTC or that already own an Avalon unit. Less diversification of hashing throughput.But I'm not complaining. The price is fair given the market situation and no competition, so if that's what they want to charge so be it. The units will still sell out for reasons stated above. Your average joe can't afford $5k for one of these - even if ROI is good it would be irresponsible to buy one, regardless of how much faith you have in Bitcoin.

SyRenity



Offline



Activity: 756

Merit: 500







Hero MemberActivity: 756Merit: 500 Re: The latest Avalon announcement in China(Translated). Batch #3, price and more. March 20, 2013, 09:11:50 PM #113 Quote from: ngzhang on March 20, 2013, 08:35:46 PM this January, considerable people think we take Jeff down or just spent 400K to make a prototype, you don't buy.



now, everything on track, machines delivered to your hands are only a matter of time. you want to buy them at a same price or something like 2000USD.



You of course can set whichever price you want, as it a simple question of supply and demand.



That said, please at least keep the fact straight:

1) batch #2 ran out before most of people could order, and thanks to problems in the process, many of us could not get in.

2) as you not willing to lower the declared value, only the VAT will kill the deal for most of us. In my case it's more than costs of previous batches.

3) as there is no delivery guarantee, we basically don't have any indication of ROI.



All of this makes this preposition actually more riskier for us then Batch 1 and 2 buyers. You of course can set whichever price you want, as it a simple question of supply and demand.That said, please at least keep the fact straight:1) batch #2 ran out before most of people could order, and thanks to problems in the process, many of us could not get in.2) as you not willing to lower the declared value, only the VAT will kill the deal for most of us. In my case it's more than costs of previous batches.3) as there is no delivery guarantee, we basically don't have any indication of ROI.All of this makes this preposition actually more riskier for us then Batch 1 and 2 buyers.

johnyj



Offline



Activity: 1904

Merit: 1006





Beyond Imagination







LegendaryActivity: 1904Merit: 1006Beyond Imagination Re: The latest Avalon announcement in China(Translated). Batch #3, price and more. March 20, 2013, 09:12:41 PM #114 Quote from: ngzhang on March 20, 2013, 08:35:46 PM we discussed batch3 price for a long time.



personally, i do think this is a reasonable price.



batch#1: 1300USD + your trust, batch#2: 1500USD + your trust, batch#3 = ?



why batch 1 and batch2 customers will enjoy such a low USD price and extremly high profit? because they put their valuable trust on us.



last September, most of you think we have little chance to win, or could be a crappy scam, you don't buy.



this January, considerable people think we take Jeff down or just spent 400K to make a prototype, you don't buy.



now, everything on track, machines delivered to your hands are only a matter of time. you want to buy them at a same price or something like 2000USD.



OK, please tell me, what is the price of people most valuable things "trust" should be? 500USD? no, 5000USD at least.



as a core developer, i look upon all Avalons as my son. i will send them to who believe us, not the faithless or buzzard.



Nice statement! Batch 1 and Batch 2 orderers are risk takers, now there are much less risk



And the interesting thing is, Avalon only accepting BTC caused a self-driven market demand for BTC, this is exactly lots of BTC true believers hoped: A BTC economy which is less related on exchange price. This is a totally new phenomenon, how to evaluate such a move's effect?



It's a bit like a chinese company make a nice product that everyone on the planet want , but they only accept chinese RMB, so the only option for outsiders is to exchange their currency for RMB, and that will strengthen the RMB's exchange rate (of course the RMB exchange rate is fixed by chinese government, this is not a good example, but you get the idea...) Nice statement! Batch 1 and Batch 2 orderers are risk takers, now there are much less riskAnd the interesting thing is, Avalon only accepting BTC caused a self-driven market demand for BTC, this is exactly lots of BTC true believers hoped: A BTC economy which is less related on exchange price. This is a totally new phenomenon, how to evaluate such a move's effect?It's a bit like a chinese company make a nice product that everyone on the planet want , but they only accept chinese RMB, so the only option for outsiders is to exchange their currency for RMB, and that will strengthen the RMB's exchange rate (of course the RMB exchange rate is fixed by chinese government, this is not a good example, but you get the idea...) Why bitcoin will appreciate forever: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=277275.msg3244038#msg3244038

Rampion



Offline



Activity: 1120

Merit: 1000







LegendaryActivity: 1120Merit: 1000 Re: The latest Avalon announcement in China(Translated). Batch #3, price and more. March 20, 2013, 09:13:45 PM #115 Quote from: BitSyncom on March 20, 2013, 08:29:35 PM Quote from: Rampion on March 20, 2013, 08:25:22 PM

I will save BTC for your generation #2 first batch from now on

Hopefully by then there will be more competition or the network hashrate is a lot higher so we won't be forced to come up with these ridiculous numbers.

Hopefully by then there will be more competition or the network hashrate is a lot higher so we won't be forced to come up with these ridiculous numbers.

Yeah, that's quite frank from your side. Agree that these are ridiculous numbers, but still this is pure free market in action. No competition = ridiculous numbers, more risk for the consumer



Quote from: Aseras on March 20, 2013, 08:55:06 PM Quote from: ngzhang on March 20, 2013, 08:35:46 PM we discussed batch3 price for a long time.



personally, i do think this is a reasonable price.



batch#1: 1300USD + your trust, batch#2: 1500USD + your trust, batch#3 = ?



why batch 1 and batch2 customers will enjoy such a low USD price and extremly high profit? because they put their valuable trust on us.



last September, most of you think we have little chance to win, or could be a crappy scam, you don't buy.



this January, considerable people think we take Jeff down or just spent 400K to make a prototype, you don't buy.



now, everything on track, machines delivered to your hands are only a matter of time. you want to buy them at a same price or something like 2000USD.



OK, please tell me, what is the price of people most valuable things "trust" should be? 500USD? no, 5000USD at least.



as a core developer, i look upon all Avalons as my son. i will send them to who believe us, not the faithless or buzzard.



Double the price is reasonable, 4+ times the "price" with another indefinite wait is absurd. Especially considering the hiccups and the delays and the general stonewalling of the people ( like me ) who ordered batch1 and batch 2 and still have nothing but a few emails and promises of "its shipped".



If you want to sell them for 100btc and you have them in stock and are shipping the next day and guarantee delivery in a week, yeah maybe the price works for the profiteers.



If you want 100 btc and you jerk everyone around like the last 2 orders, ignore the users asking for very little information and don't maintain a delivery schedule, it not going to happen. People are going to go to BFL, get their SC or minirig in the same time frame and have smaller more efficient devices.



Avalon has a niche, exploit it a little, don't go raping people. The guys who are buying them mostly are people like me, not profiteers, we are hobbyists. I'm not rich. I'm a poor college researcher like you.



Dr Zhang you've always been a straight shooter and very knowledgeable. You guys deserve a profit. If you need a huge profit then just publically mine with half a batch and make your money there and sell the other half. Limit orders to one per person and premine the units for a week or whatever then ship them off. But demanding a ridiculous cost in btc up front with vague delivery and distant support is not what I've come to expect from team avalon.

Double the price is reasonable, 4+ times the "price" with another indefinite wait is absurd. Especially considering the hiccups and the delays and the general stonewalling of the people ( like me ) who ordered batch1 and batch 2 and still have nothing but a few emails and promises of "its shipped".If you want to sell them for 100btc and you have them in stock and are shipping the next day and guarantee delivery in a week, yeah maybe the price works for the profiteers.If you want 100 btc and you jerk everyone around like the last 2 orders, ignore the users asking for very little information and don't maintain a delivery schedule, it not going to happen. People are going to go to BFL, get their SC or minirig in the same time frame and have smaller more efficient devices.Avalon has a niche, exploit it a little, don't go raping people. The guys who are buying them mostly are people like me, not profiteers, we are hobbyists. I'm not rich. I'm a poor college researcher like you.Dr Zhang you've always been a straight shooter and very knowledgeable. You guys deserve a profit. If you need a huge profit then just publically mine with half a batch and make your money there and sell the other half. Limit orders to one per person and premine the units for a week or whatever then ship them off. But demanding a ridiculous cost in btc up front with vague delivery and distant support is not what I've come to expect from team avalon.

+100000



I'm also an admirer of Dr Zhang. As said earlier, I'm starting to save for his 2nd gen asics. Batch #3 is too risky and expensive for me. Yeah, that's quite frank from your side. Agree that these are ridiculous numbers, but still this is pure free market in action. No competition = ridiculous numbers, more risk for the consumer+100000I'm also an admirer of Dr Zhang. As said earlier, I'm starting to save for his 2nd gen asics. Batch #3 is too risky and expensive for me. PGP KEY

loshia



Offline



Activity: 1610

Merit: 1000







LegendaryActivity: 1610Merit: 1000 Re: The latest Avalon announcement in China(Translated). Batch #3, price and more. March 20, 2013, 09:15:43 PM #116 Quote from: SyRenity on March 20, 2013, 09:11:50 PM Quote from: ngzhang on March 20, 2013, 08:35:46 PM this January, considerable people think we take Jeff down or just spent 400K to make a prototype, you don't buy.



now, everything on track, machines delivered to your hands are only a matter of time. you want to buy them at a same price or something like 2000USD.



You of course can set whichever price you want, as it a simple question of supply and demand.



That said, please at least keep the fact straight:

1) batch #2 ran out before most of people could order, and thanks to problems in the process, many of us could not get in.

2) as you not willing to lower the declared value, only the VAT will kill the deal for most of us. In my case it's more than costs of previous batches.

3) as there is no delivery guarantee, we basically don't have any indication of ROI.



All of this makes this preposition actually more riskier for us then Batch 1 and 2 buyers.

You of course can set whichever price you want, as it a simple question of supply and demand.That said, please at least keep the fact straight:1) batch #2 ran out before most of people could order, and thanks to problems in the process, many of us could not get in.2) as you not willing to lower the declared value, only the VAT will kill the deal for most of us. In my case it's more than costs of previous batches.3) as there is no delivery guarantee, we basically don't have any indication of ROI.All of this makes this preposition actually more riskier for us then Batch 1 and 2 buyers.

Batch 2 second wave was available for whole day i repeat one day to be ordered

Batch 2 second wave was available for whole day i repeat one day to be ordered

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=643999.msg7191563#msg7191563

And remember Bicknellski is not collecting money from community;D Please help the Led Boy aka Bicknellski to make us a nice Christmas led tree and pay WASP membership fee here:And remember Bicknellski is not collecting money from community;D

SyRenity



Offline



Activity: 756

Merit: 500







Hero MemberActivity: 756Merit: 500 Re: The latest Avalon announcement in China(Translated). Batch #3, price and more. March 20, 2013, 09:25:56 PM #117 Quote from: loshia on March 20, 2013, 09:15:43 PM Batch 2 second wave was available for whole day i repeat one day to be ordered



Quite incorrect - and a quick look over relevant forum boards illustrates it clearly.



In my case specifically, the link in newsletter lead to "out of stock" on the morning already, and I only found out afternoon that sale was re-opened and gone again.



So call it as it is - a firesale that only those who frequent these boards managed to get it, far from all people who were actually interested in buying Batch 2. Quite incorrect - and a quick look over relevant forum boards illustrates it clearly.In my case specifically, the link in newsletter lead to "out of stock" on the morning already, and I only found out afternoon that sale was re-opened and gone again.So call it as it is - a firesale that only those who frequent these boards managed to get it, far from all people who were actually interested in buying Batch 2.

loshia



Offline



Activity: 1610

Merit: 1000







LegendaryActivity: 1610Merit: 1000 Re: The latest Avalon announcement in China(Translated). Batch #3, price and more. March 20, 2013, 09:28:38 PM #118 Quote from: SyRenity on March 20, 2013, 09:25:56 PM Quote from: loshia on March 20, 2013, 09:15:43 PM Batch 2 second wave was available for whole day i repeat one day to be ordered



Quite incorrect - and a quick look over relevant forum boards illustrates it clearly.



In my case specifically, the link in newsletter lead to "out of stock" on the morning already, and I only found out afternoon that sale was re-opened and gone again.



So call it as it is - a firesale that only those who frequent these boards managed to get it, far from all people who were actually interested in buying Batch 2.

Quite incorrect - and a quick look over relevant forum boards illustrates it clearly.In my case specifically, the link in newsletter lead to "out of stock" on the morning already, and I only found out afternoon that sale was re-opened and gone again.So call it as it is - a firesale that only those who frequent these boards managed to get it, far from all people who were actually interested in buying Batch 2.

Dude,

I ordered mine at noon i remember it clearly. A friend of mine ordered about 12 PM so please excuse me it was not available for a whole day but at least for 12+ hours. I am talking for the reopening of second batch 1 week later after the initial fiasco probably you missed this out ?

Dude,I ordered mine at noon i remember it clearly. A friend of mine ordered about 12 PM so please excuse me it was not available for a whole day but at least for 12+ hours. I am talking for the reopening of second batch 1 week later after the initial fiasco probably you missed this out ?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=643999.msg7191563#msg7191563

And remember Bicknellski is not collecting money from community;D Please help the Led Boy aka Bicknellski to make us a nice Christmas led tree and pay WASP membership fee here:And remember Bicknellski is not collecting money from community;D

SyRenity



Offline



Activity: 756

Merit: 500







Hero MemberActivity: 756Merit: 500 Re: The latest Avalon announcement in China(Translated). Batch #3, price and more. March 20, 2013, 09:42:53 PM #124 Quote from: loshia on March 20, 2013, 09:28:38 PM Dude,

I ordered mine at noon i remember it clearly. A friend of mine ordered about 12 PM so please excuse me it was not available for a whole day but at least for 12+ hours i am talking for the reopening of second batch 1 week later after the initial fiasco probably you missed this out ?



Some of us still have a daily job / business to run and commitments, despite the entire BTC craze, and cannot spend the whole day checking the site.



12 hours window reminds me more a Black Friday rush, then an equal opportunity to anyone willing to put their coins into early product.



Anyhow, this discussion is moot as Avalon can and will charge whatever they want, so I wish luck to all current and future ASIC miners  in the end you only make the market stronger. Some of us still have a daily job / business to run and commitments, despite the entire BTC craze, and cannot spend the whole day checking the site.12 hours window reminds me more a Black Friday rush, then an equal opportunity to anyone willing to put their coins into early product.Anyhow, this discussion is moot as Avalon can and will charge whatever they want, so I wish luck to all current and future ASIC miners  in the end you only make the market stronger.

Nexus2k



Offline



Activity: 9

Merit: 0







NewbieActivity: 9Merit: 0 Re: The latest Avalon announcement in China(Translated). Batch #3, price and more. March 20, 2013, 09:45:40 PM #125 what a pitty.... missed batch #2 because I was unable to get my money converted to BTC fast enough and now when I did read about batch #3 on monday I went on and bought BTC but only calculated with 1599$ like it was for batch #2 -.-



I completly understand the position of Avalon team, but the risk for the customers is a bit too high for me now. (But I'm looking for joint ventures if anyone is interested...)

jmsanto123



Offline



Activity: 114

Merit: 10





Find a Way or Make One







MemberActivity: 114Merit: 10Find a Way or Make One Re: The latest Avalon announcement in China(Translated). Batch #3, price and more. March 20, 2013, 09:47:01 PM #126 Quote from: Aseras on March 20, 2013, 08:55:06 PM Quote from: ngzhang on March 20, 2013, 08:35:46 PM we discussed batch3 price for a long time.



personally, i do think this is a reasonable price.



batch#1: 1300USD + your trust, batch#2: 1500USD + your trust, batch#3 = ?



why batch 1 and batch2 customers will enjoy such a low USD price and extremly high profit? because they put their valuable trust on us.



last September, most of you think we have little chance to win, or could be a crappy scam, you don't buy.



this January, considerable people think we take Jeff down or just spent 400K to make a prototype, you don't buy.



now, everything on track, machines delivered to your hands are only a matter of time. you want to buy them at a same price or something like 2000USD.



OK, please tell me, what is the price of people most valuable things "trust" should be? 500USD? no, 5000USD at least.



as a core developer, i look upon all Avalons as my son. i will send them to who believe us, not the faithless or buzzard.



Double the price is reasonable, 4+ times the "price" with another indefinite wait is absurd. Especially considering the hiccups and the delays and the general stonewalling of the people ( like me ) who ordered batch1 and batch 2 and still have nothing but a few emails and promises of "its shipped".



If you want to sell them for 100btc and you have them in stock and are shipping the next day and guarantee delivery in a week, yeah maybe the price works for the profiteers.



If you want 100 btc and you jerk everyone around like the last 2 orders, ignore the users asking for very little information and don't maintain a delivery schedule, it not going to happen. People are going to go to BFL, get their SC or minirig in the same time frame and have smaller more efficient devices.



Avalon has a niche, exploit it a little, don't go raping people. The guys who are buying them mostly are people like me, not profiteers, we are hobbyists. I'm not rich. I'm a poor college researcher like you.



Dr Zhang you've always been a straight shooter and very knowledgeable. You guys deserve a profit. If you need a huge profit then just publically mine with half a batch and make your money there and sell the other half. Limit orders to one per person and premine the units for a week or whatever then ship them off. But demanding a ridiculous cost in btc up front with vague delivery and distant support is not what I've come to expect from team avalon.

Double the price is reasonable, 4+ times the "price" with another indefinite wait is absurd. Especially considering the hiccups and the delays and the general stonewalling of the people ( like me ) who ordered batch1 and batch 2 and still have nothing but a few emails and promises of "its shipped".If you want to sell them for 100btc and you have them in stock and are shipping the next day and guarantee delivery in a week, yeah maybe the price works for the profiteers.If you want 100 btc and you jerk everyone around like the last 2 orders, ignore the users asking for very little information and don't maintain a delivery schedule, it not going to happen. People are going to go to BFL, get their SC or minirig in the same time frame and have smaller more efficient devices.Avalon has a niche, exploit it a little, don't go raping people. The guys who are buying them mostly are people like me, not profiteers, we are hobbyists. I'm not rich. I'm a poor college researcher like you.Dr Zhang you've always been a straight shooter and very knowledgeable. You guys deserve a profit. If you need a huge profit then just publically mine with half a batch and make your money there and sell the other half. Limit orders to one per person and premine the units for a week or whatever then ship them off. But demanding a ridiculous cost in btc up front with vague delivery and distant support is not what I've come to expect from team avalon.

+1 +1 AVALON-ASIC(Batch #2) Order #3xx3 made on February 18, 2013. Order status: completed(Mining Now).

Gridseed Dual Miner (01/Mar/2014) Order#17-#18 with Badman0316 | Order Status: completed(Mining Now).

BTC Address : 1DcYbWHmpyJHbnec2A6J4zNy5f1kdEtXFj

relm9



Offline



Activity: 840

Merit: 1000









Hero MemberActivity: 840Merit: 1000 Re: The latest Avalon announcement in China(Translated). Batch #3, price and more. March 20, 2013, 09:51:49 PM #127 Quote from: SyRenity on March 20, 2013, 09:42:53 PM Quote from: loshia on March 20, 2013, 09:28:38 PM Dude,

I ordered mine at noon i remember it clearly. A friend of mine ordered about 12 PM so please excuse me it was not available for a whole day but at least for 12+ hours i am talking for the reopening of second batch 1 week later after the initial fiasco probably you missed this out ?



Some of us still have a daily job / business to run and commitments, despite the entire BTC craze, and cannot spend the whole day checking the site.



12 hours window reminds me more a Black Friday rush, then an equal opportunity to anyone willing to put their coins into early product.



Anyhow, this discussion is moot as Avalon can and will charge whatever they want, so I wish luck to all current and future ASIC miners  in the end you only make the market stronger.

Some of us still have a daily job / business to run and commitments, despite the entire BTC craze, and cannot spend the whole day checking the site.12 hours window reminds me more a Black Friday rush, then an equal opportunity to anyone willing to put their coins into early product.Anyhow, this discussion is moot as Avalon can and will charge whatever they want, so I wish luck to all current and future ASIC miners  in the end you only make the market stronger.

Ditto. I missed batch #2 by a few hours. If anything, the risk is much higher for batch #3 since there's a greater possibility of the difficulty going up soon and the offchance that BFL may actually ship.



If I do decide to get an ASIC, I might just order one through BFL even though I am fully aware they may never ship, still a lower risk to me than dropping $5k as I can afford to lose a grand and I'm not interested in insane ROI. Ditto. I missed batch #2 by a few hours. If anything, the risk is much higher for batch #3 since there's a greater possibility of the difficulty going up soon and the offchance that BFL may actually ship.If I do decide to get an ASIC, I might just order one through BFL even though I am fully aware they may never ship, still a lower risk to me than dropping $5k as I can afford to lose a grand and I'm not interested in insane ROI.

shibaji



Offline



Activity: 308

Merit: 102









Full MemberActivity: 308Merit: 102 Re: The latest Avalon announcement in China(Translated). Batch #3, price and more. March 20, 2013, 10:24:37 PM #134 Quote from: Minor Miner on March 20, 2013, 10:19:13 PM There is a saying "It is FAR easier to criticize than to create".

From reading the posts of the two people that have created the avalon (a HUGE success considering those who have failed and those we seemed to have failed), it sounds lik