Steve Wozniak with the Apple II he helped develop Flickr/Robert Scoble Apple cofounder Steve Wozniak wasn't a fan of the first Macintosh computer. He thought it was a "a lousy product."

In an interview with The Verge's Chris Ziegler, Woz reminisced about the early days at Apple, and cofounder Steve Jobs. He discussed how the Mac compared to its predecessor, the Lisa, the first PC to have a graphical user interface.

The story goes that back in 1982, the CEO of Apple at the time, John Sculley, was starting to butt heads with Steve Jobs. Sculley forced Jobs off the Lisa project, and Jobs joined the Macintosh project instead, where Woz was working.

"The Macintosh should've been a whole different product, not a mouse-driven GUI machine like it was, and the Lisa, he should've just waited five years, and then it would've been ready," Woz told Ziegler.

"Steve really took over the [Macintosh] project when I had a plane crash and wasn't there," he said saying it was his opinion that Jobs wanted the Macintosh to "compete with the Lisa group that had kicked him out."

But the Lisa needed a lot of memory and back in that day, 1 megabyte "cost 10,000 of today's dollars," Woz recalls. Jobs wanted to make a less expensive computer.

But "what he did was he made a really weak, lousy computer, to tell you truth, in the Macintosh, and still at a fairly high price. He made it by cutting the RAM down, by forcing you to swap disks here and there. It was a lousy product," Woz told Ziegler.

"The Macintosh failed, really hard, and who built the Macintosh into a success later on? It wasn't Steve, he was gone. It was other people like John Sculley who worked and worked to build a Macintosh market when the Apple II went away," Woz said.

Read the whole interview here.