He has been described as India’s Carl Sagan — the man who loves to bust myths with reason and logic. Meet Babu Gogineni , a “humanist and rationalist”, who has made headlines with his unabashed criticism of religion and spiritual leaders. A non-believer, Gogineni bats for a society which runs on scientific truths and logic, rather than religion. The founder of South Asian Humanist Association, Gogineni has travelled extensively across the world, and is also the executive director of an international humanist movement in London. In a free-wheeling chat with Hyderabad Times, Gogineni speaks about the state of Indian science and technology and emphasises on the need to put logic before blind faith.

Excerpts:

You call yourself a humanist and rationalist…

A rationalist is someone who uses reason. The application of reason to investigate truth, to understand how the universe works, to

understand the broad scheme of things. A humanist is someone who applies humanism to various aspects of life. Humanism is ethical, personal and social and it seeks to give direction to one’s life. There have been boastful claims made by people that India is the leader of the world, and that the world should learn from us. This cultural and religious arrogance is not benefitting anyone. In a way, humanism is a competition to the world’s religions. But humanism will win because it is based on facts, not on mythology or assumptions.

But why are you against religion? Don’t you think people have a right to practice religion of their choice?

Of course. Though I’m not religious, I do think people have a genuine need for religion and it is their right to hold whatever belief they want to. At the same time, you also have the right to question religion. But today, instead of appreciating myth and fables for what they are, people have become victims of mythology and are trying to manufacture facts to justify things which are unjustifiable.

You mean instances like HRD Minister Satyapal Singh saying that Darwin’s Theory of Evolution does not exist...? When national leaders make such comments, what message does it send out to the scientific community?

It is terribly embarrassing. Evolution is a fact and not just a theory. It does not depend on the opinion of a particular individual. Simply, the fact that you can stand up, is proof of evolution. Look around — everything is a result of millions of years of evolution. The problem is that our leaders make statements without logic or facts to support them. We have the largest workforce in technology, but what good is it when there is no innovation happening? There is no funding for research. Where are the Nobel prizes? Why can’t we produce cutting-edge technological advances or scientific insights?

What do you think is the problem?

What we really need is a culture of science. We consider science to be separate from culture. In fact, we consider science to be antagonistic to culture or religion. People usually see science as the opposite of religion, and there is this false battle going on between science and religion. All these pastors, pujaris, pandits and imams, who get on to television to address their followers — do they not realise that without science, they cannot be on television or use a microphone or travel anywhere? They are misusing the benefits of science to promote a rather a primitive approach to life.

You have particularly critical of astrologers and godmen . Is there a reason why you have specifically singled them out?

These godmen are always making tall claims. Making false, fraudulent claims are very easy once you use God or religion as your shield. People are simple and naïve; they tend to believe anything that’s told in the name of religion. Very rarely do they question why someone is charging them Rs 10,000 for teaching them how to breathe? Or why they have to pay Rs 50,000 to see someone install a Shiv ling.

Last year, you were in the news for ‘freeing’ a village on the outskirts of Hyderabad and ridding its residents from the clutches of a so-called ‘evil ghost’. What was that about?

I belong to the third generation of a non-religious Telugu agricultural family. Being the executive director of International Humanist and Ethical Union (IHEU) in London for the last 17 years and a human rights activist, my intellectual, professional and activist work has always been at the cusp of religion and human rights. In the course of my travels to Africa, Asia and America, it became increasingly evident to me that many people out of fear or politeness do not address the issue of superstitions. For instance, during one of my visits to Ghana, Africa, I encountered a case of the police arresting a goat because they suspected it was a thief who transformed himself into the goat to escape arrest. How ridiculous is that! The UN has estimated that the number of people affected by superstitions runs into tens of thousands worldwide. I want to challenge the privilege of religion, superstitions and their authoritarianism. So, I took it up as my cause and I’ve been working towards it ever since.

But you must believe in ghosts to bust them, right?

Firstly, ghost sightings and being “possessed” are mental health issues and people experiencing them should seek professional help. It is probably schizophrenia or something. I, being a rationalist, look for natural causes when examining anything. I will not look for supernatural causes. All religions, except Buddhism, have elements of magical thinking. So when people hear about incidents of ghost sighting, they don’t probe the causes, instead look for the ghost, devil or whatever and seek to drive it away! This is what I bust. I bust myths with rationality and reasoning.

You have been aggressively calling for a society that’s guided by science. Do you think that it is achievable?

I think science has already won, because everything around us is the result of science. A human is someone who has a lot of

dignity and has extraordinary potential. Just look around you, everything has been created and achieved by humans through their minds. It has not been done by any God, mantras, prayers or incantations. Human pursuits are destroyed the moment you say that God is responsible for it. In this country, we have a life expectancy of 67 years. But in countries like Japan, it is as high as 80. That is because of the gift of science. Science for society, society for science — that should be the motto for us.

