» hamzah555 on October 29th, 2014, 11:47pm Jesus fucking Christ.



Itallcomestumblingdown.flac thread » monkry on October 30th, 2014, 12:28am selfcest!?



Oh pleaaase, pleaaase not MU ;___;



May you find better host! thread

» GuttedGnome on October 30th, 2014, 12:33am

Sarcasm aside, a host and domain outside the US would be most favorable for you it seems considering the events in the past year.

Truth be told though, the ones sending these DMCAs know as much about copyright and fair use as "Wikipedia is a safe harbor for pirates"-people. Even the DMCA for links last year was illegal. What a great host! Wikipedia would love to have your host.Sarcasm aside, a host and domain outside the US would be most favorable for you it seems considering the events in the past year.Truth be told though, the ones sending these DMCAs know as much about copyright and fair use as "Wikipedia is a safe harbor for pirates"-people. Even the DMCA for links last year was illegal. thread » philip72 on October 30th, 2014, 5:14pm And just like with Wikipedia, using the covers constitutes fair use.

Kodansha had no business issuing a DMCA. It should be ignored and your host threatened with litigation if it pulls that stunt again.



Seriously lambchopsil, you've got to stop caving to these legally dubious takedown threats. You're empowering them by complying. There's a lot of pro bono assistance out there in regards to copyright bullying, take advantage of some of it.

thread » ALT+CTL on November 2nd, 2014, 3:08pm nope we dont call that copyright bullying. Its another form of legal bully. thread

» MatrixM on October 30th, 2014, 12:36am I was wondering about that. Kinda strange to not allow cover art (in most cases, less than half of the cover art at that). thread

» kainord on October 30th, 2014, 12:40am This is just dumb, dmca because the cover? Do they sell manga in bags? or wrapped in something to hide the covers? LOL no one would buy them if they didn't see the covers. thread

» Baalzebup on October 30th, 2014, 12:46am Now that is just fucking sad. Seen as it isn't all that difficult to figure out which companies were behind this, their stock just went down a bunch in my books.



A really good way to increase my inclination to buy your products.... oh, wait. thread

» SilverStorm on October 30th, 2014, 1:42am Not sure if your host is the same as your domain registrar, but I've heard some pretty horrible stories about GoDaddy, especially in regards to DMCAs. They'll pretty much always screw you over and never investigate anything (stuff like people making bogus DMCA claims against competitors who use GoDaddy).



I don't care what Kodansha says, it's fair use. Otherwise, Wikipedia would never be able to put up cover images of albums or anything like that. Over the years, I've grown to dislike Kodansha. I hate how they dominate the market and refuse to get with the times because it threatens their monopoly.



(P.S. @lambchop The link to the thread identifying "a certain publisher" is broken.) thread » lambchopsil on October 30th, 2014, 8:31am Thanks, I fixed the link thread

» Lorska on October 30th, 2014, 2:09am So. the only thing that is neither publicly available information or user-written are the publicly available covers so they get attacked... Really...



First time I've seen publishers dumb enough to censor their OWN promotional pictures, because what else are covers?



Thanks for the news! thread

» stew00 on October 30th, 2014, 3:55am more attacks from crunchyroll and horrible to shut down everyone thread

» Chojiki on October 30th, 2014, 4:32am



Take a look at Wikipedia



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Nanatsu_no_Taizai_Volume_1.png



They host the same content, and even they consider it fair use:



From the "Licensing" section of that page:



This image is of book cover(s), and the copyright for it is most likely owned either by the artist who created the cover(s) or the publisher of the book(s). It is believed that the use of low-resolution images of book covers



- to illustrate an article discussing the book in question

- on the English-language Wikipedia, hosted on servers in the United States by the non-profit Wikimedia Foundation,



qualifies as fair use under United States copyright law. Other use of this image, on Wikipedia or elsewhere, might be copyright infringement. See Wikipedia:Non-free content for more information.



MU operates under the same conditions, therefore the same rules apply to them. Fight back MU, don't let them reduce you to uselessness! DMCA'd again? For fuck's sake! Go fuck yourself, Crunchyroll and Kodansha. I understood the legal issues surrounding the removal of scanlator groups but this is insane, this is unarguably fair use of the covers.Take a look at WikipediaThey host, and even they consider it fair use:From the "Licensing" section of that page:MU operates under the same conditions, therefore the same rules apply to them. Fight back MU, don't let them reduce you to uselessness! thread » partially on October 30th, 2014, 4:55am Key point is "believed", no one has ever really challenged or argued in court whether it is fair use. So even Wikipedia is open to DMCA for this. Simple fact is that most companies do not care, and do consider this fair use. The real question is whether Kodansha would actually be bothered to take it to court because they don't regard it as fair use. In which case they would be nuts. thread

» Hanae on October 30th, 2014, 4:51am I understood when download links were removed. I could sort of understand when links to scanlation groups were removed as well. But covers? The Japanese seem to be rather strict when it comes to image copyright (at least I think so, considering that most anime/manga related articles on Japanese wikipedia have no images at all), but nobody would seriously think that images on the site could cause losses to the publisher. And contacting your host behind your back was a really rude thing to do. And the host is no better.

It's annoying that a useful site like MU that doesn't publish anything illegal is constantly harassed with ridiculous DMCA requests, while online manga aggregator sites continue to prosper without any problems. thread

» PROzess on October 30th, 2014, 4:53am I don't understand the commotion.

What's the big deal?

MU has been dead ever since the links were removed.

And seriously, who needs covers anyway??

Just go to your friendly local online reader and you're set. thread » zenaku2005 on October 30th, 2014, 11:02am

then the scanlation groups links which is already pushing it.

But cover images? that's publicly available and under fair use law?

No matter how you look at it this is DMCA abuse, and your host clearly breached your contract for not notifying you.



Also as a temporally fix how about linking to the amazon/wikipedia cover images?



Quote from PROzess I don't understand the commotion.

What's the big deal?

MU has been dead ever since the links were removed.



A work around were made.

This is getting ridiculous first the DL links which is understandable.then the scanlation groups links which is already pushing it.But cover images? that's publicly available and under fair use law?No matter how you look at it this is DMCA abuse, and your host clearly breached your contract for not notifying you.Also as a temporally fix how about linking to the amazon/wikipedia cover images?A work around were made. thread

» T1 on October 30th, 2014, 4:59am Awwww so even databases can be hit by DMCA requests, lol. That's a new one but the world is funny enough already so it doesn't surprise me much.



Kinda sux but from a strategic point of view I would get mangaupdates closed to. After all, it contains all the information about what has been scanlated and what is being scanlated each day. So if it was me I would use every option to do something about mu so I could illegal scanlations. (I'm sure people won't argue about this anymore...if they want to then they should read the law about this. We had this discussion a trillion times in the past already) So if I get mu removed then the online readers will have a hard time to find stuff to put up on their readers and the readers will also be forced to visit every group's site they like to get their manga. Not to mention they will be forced to keep their eyes and ears for new groups popping up and doing their manga. This will require efforts from their side and many will stop reading manga because it's not worth their time to put this much effort into it. So brilliant strategy if they can carry it out.



I don't get why people start screaming about kodansha or other publishes on this thread. What will that affect? The publishers aren't even reading what you are writing. Send them mails or something so they can hear your opinion being voiced. If you are just using this thread as a stress relief then carry on and I apologize for my lack of understanding.



I agree with the others; it's under law fair use to have covers and single pages of a work posted on your site. It makes no sense that they can have the covers removed. thread

» kihi on October 30th, 2014, 5:39am



Are publisher getting that possessive or their material. I thought cover art are mean to be display?



Server outside US is your safest bet, US copyright laws are getting manipulated every second by dumb publishers



Maybe you shouldn't announce CR releases, i think they were offended by that. For real cover art. Amazon should be getting a lot of DMCA then...Are publisher getting that possessive or their material. I thought cover art are mean to be display?Server outside US is your safest bet, US copyright laws are getting manipulated every second by dumb publishersMaybe you shouldn't announce CR releases, i think they were offended by that. thread » wolfery on November 1st, 2014, 6:50am Quote Maybe you shouldn't announce CR releases, i think they were offended by that.

Haha, threw them away from releases list on the first day they came out. By the way that was right after scanlation group's links were removed. Haha, threw them away from releases list on the first day they came out. By the way that was right after scanlation group's links were removed. thread

» Tiannu on October 30th, 2014, 6:06am I can understand why the links to groups had to be removed, but this is ridiculous. I, for one, will not start a manga without looking at the cover art; the art style is a very important factor for me. I'm not going to look up the images.... Especially if/when there are so many. If I'm not reading the manga inline, this destroys any chance of me actually buying the manga. Also, shouldn't Wikipedia have tons of DMCA notices per day?? @.@ same with all the online readers....

Good move, publisher. thread

» Lorska on October 30th, 2014, 6:21am Could people that are saying this site is dead or should be shut down please either leave or drop dead? If that's your opinion, stop coming back...



On that strategic pov: most aggregator sites already have a new chapter before it is listed here, so taking down mu has no effect whatsoever on those. Tbh what would you as publisher prefer? People get information about manga from aggregator sites where they could just read it for free, or from mu that doesn't offer that service?



They can't touch the aggregators, so they piss off one of the few places with people that don't only care about releases and reading (licensed) manga. The only thing they are doing is driving people to those sites they can't do sh** about... thread » HunterMaou on November 1st, 2014, 10:16pm Well they cant shoot the "Villain" so they shoot the messenger telling them who the villain is thread » Lorska on November 2nd, 2014, 5:38am yeah, but it's sad because the one they actually want something from is that messenger... thread

» deadphoenix on October 30th, 2014, 6:40am Maybe it helps to switch domainnames the .com domain that mangaupdates is using is actually for commercial site, most people wouldn't even know it's a non-profit site. But it's the worst option for hosting possible licensed material. you don't have any protection with a .com domain. I would also recommend to use another country for hosting the database.

Anyway google hosts way more manga related material. (When you search some manga with the picture search, a lot of manga pictures shows up. All those miniature examples are hosted by google (someone told this to me). And wikipedia hosts more pictures anyway than MU.



thread

» Sayori x3 on October 30th, 2014, 7:01am This is probably a collective act by publishers who wish to prevent manga distribution at the "source", and they believe that MangaUpdates is one of the biggest locations performing said distribution.



They (the publishers) probably allude MU to websites like file sharing forums or websites that, although they may not necessarily host the files directly, they provide possible locations for where readers may access the series in question. (Content owners are usually unable to shut down those sorts of websites due to them being located in some archaic part of the world, so they simply go to the file hosts and request for the files to be taken down instead.)



They likely justify targeting websites like MU as opposed to other "ordinary" information websites as they likely believe places like MU are seeking hits, and that technically does not serve in their own profitable interests.



Since the last few years, there have been other websites "rising" while MU is "falling", to continue this stream of release information, including but not limited to other "release information" websites as well as online reader websites themselves.



I'll state that, in today's society, piracy will keep going strong ("scanlation" is technically piracy). And as we all know how piracy goes, authorities will try to stop it, but they cannot stop people from continuing to do it (unless those who own the website are arrested and fined or jailed for whatever grounds).



But yes, now that MangaUpdates is building a reputation for being easily targeted by publishers, others will likely join suit. We will have to see what happens, both here, and at other websites. thread » kihi on November 1st, 2014, 1:53am Quote from Sayori x3 But yes, now that MangaUpdates is building a reputation for being easily targeted by publishers, others will likely join suit. We will have to see what happens, both here, and at other websites.



MU should have put up a little fight before succumb to every claim especially this one. Submitting without fight has made MU and "easy target" to any publisher who want to blow off some steam.







MU should have put up a little fight before succumb to every claim especially this one. Submitting without fight has made MU and "easy target" to any publisher who want to blow off some steam. thread » blakraven66 on November 1st, 2014, 3:14am Quote from kihi MU should have put up a little fight before succumb to every claim especially this one. Submitting without fight has made MU and "easy target" to any publisher who want to blow off some steam.

This isn't about caving in. MU didn't have time to put up a fight when the host just shut MU down with no warning. Seeing as the admins are searching for a new host this is mostly just a temporary measure to get the site back up as fast as possible while on the look out.



Or would you rather have preferred for MU to stay down until a new host is found? This isn't about caving in. MU didn't have time to put up a fight when the host just shut MU down with no warning. Seeing as the admins are searching for a new host this is mostly just a temporary measure to get the site back up as fast as possible while on the look out.Or would you rather have preferred for MU to stay down until a new host is found? thread » jonytep on November 1st, 2014, 7:54am Quote from blakraven66 Or would you rather have preferred for MU to stay down until a new host is found?



Noooooo!!! Please!!! xD Noooooo!!! Please!!! xD thread

» Sircus on October 30th, 2014, 7:19am Well, Baka-updates kinda fuck themselves over with using in the "About Us" section writing

Content Rights

MangaUpdates does not own or imply ownership of any of the images used on the site. All images belong to their respective owners



Instead of saying the cover pictures are under fair usage law. What you have now is enough for publishers to force a takedown, you should change wording here asap! thread » deadphoenix on October 30th, 2014, 10:46am

He've got some good reasoning over here. It is indeed written over their. It's better to ask someone that studied laws to check it. thread » philip72 on November 1st, 2014, 12:08am Very good point.

If anyone is actually monitoring the thread, take note. thread

» kekpew on October 30th, 2014, 7:25am Please dont pussy out and give them what they want with out a fight.. Pretty sure this falls under fair use.. If you give in to this.. whats going to happen next? They will send you DMCA's because you have the names of certain series listen on your site.. thread

» SinsI on October 30th, 2014, 9:40am If they did it without following the proper law-prescribed procedures, doesn't this mean that they have illegally breached their contract with you? thread

» asrodeia on October 30th, 2014, 2:53pm For COVERS? seriously? That's childish. thread

» Sircus on October 30th, 2014, 6:01pm I hope you are negotiating with host for free hosting (x time) to stop you from litigating more serious penalties. (No clue where host is based though, but if American it should be easy right?) thread

» Trejon on October 31st, 2014, 11:41pm WOW THAT SUCKS!!, those people must be extremely stupid for calling copyrights for covers, then why not sue google? you can get almost every cover and image you want... this is beyond stupid. here im MU you can read about a serie and when looking at the cover art you can decide if read it or not. If this site close down, mark my words thati those people that buy manga will GO DOWN the hill... thread

» Reiten on November 1st, 2014, 2:35am I bet they'd loose and get fined for wasting the time of Google employees.



Good Luck on the host search and make sure the next host has something like this in the contract: "In case of copyright infringement we will inform you and give you x hours to correct the problems" Would love to see one of these guys trying to sue GoogleI bet they'd loose and get fined for wasting the time of Google employees.Good Luck on the host search and make sure the next host has something like this in the contract: "In case of copyright infringement we will inform you and give you x hours to correct the problems" thread

» Reyalsdog on November 1st, 2014, 1:11pm >someone send DMCA

>MU complying

>someone other send DMCA

>MU complying

>someone else send DMCA

>MU complying

>some hobo from street send DMCA

>MU complying and ask for more



I see a clear pattern here. S&M as it is. thread

» That3rdGuy on November 2nd, 2014, 7:49am



"the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright."



That's a except from this site:



Seriously, lambchopsil, do you only use your time to peruse the forums? It's like you expect the members here to do all the work for you. Jesus, the people who run this site have no backbone. A single image isn't copyright violation. If you would bother doing even a LITTLE research about fair use, you'd see you're in the right. Or maybe, just maybe, try calling an attorney who specializes in these cases and ask for a free consultation."the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright."That's a except from this site: http://www.socialmediaexaminer.com/copyright-fair-use-and-how -it-works-for-online-images/ Seriously, lambchopsil, do you only use your time to peruse the forums? It's like you expect the members here to do all the work for you. thread » Lorska on November 2nd, 2014, 8:18am where do those damn idiots come from?

this was already mentioned but hey, for you I'll repeat it again:

the host received the dmca notice, so the host took down the site.

mu temporarily disabled those images otherwise the host would not have enabled this site making it impossible for you to bitch around like you are currently doing.



think before posting. or even better: read, that doesn't even require you to fry your brain cells -_-



oh and I respect you and hope you don't feel offended by that! thread

» ALT+CTL on November 2nd, 2014, 3:07pm Sweden, Netherlands and Iran

this countries are our last hope



In Sweden, TeliaSonera ISP dont give a shit about DMCA thread

» residentgrigo on November 2nd, 2014, 4:41pm How save is the future of this website and what would need to be changed to make it last ? thread » Naeko on November 2nd, 2014, 5:50pm



The Doujinshi & Manga Lexicon:

http://www.doujinshi.org/



example anthology:

http://www.doujinshi.org/book/2267/Manga-Zettai-Manzoku-1997- 09/



As discussed elsewhere, this site doesn't provide data dumps of its database. It is the lone major survivor out of the many other manga listing sites some of which ranged back into the early 1990's. The site runs mostly on autopilot due to scripts that collect data from various scanlator locations. For a very much abridged and sanitized history of scanlation, see:



http://archive.moe/a/thread/116246644/#116246981

http://www.insidescanlation.com



Below is not my post, but I am rewording part of what is from the above two URLs.



Through the 1990's and up to 2002, there were several competing manga release information sites like Noated, PRISMS, Anime Web Turnpike, etc. After 2002, there was Manga Jouhou and DailyManga.



http://noated.net/

http://www.anipike.com/

http://www.dailymanga.org/



Manga Jouhou (or manganews.net) has been hacked since 2012 and has not managed to come back which is really bad since Manga Jouhou had a bunch of release information listed from times before the birth of MangaUpdates. Since these long dead scanlation groups don't have a forum, website, or IRC channel, it's all lost information now.



http://users.skynet.be/mangaguide/

This is a Usenet Manga Guide which has been tracking manga release info since 1992 but went dead back in 2004.







There is one other publicly editable manga database and that is the Mugimugi Doujinshi Database. While it has doujinshi in its URL, this database name is actually "The Doujinshi & Manga Lexicon". It accepts not just doujinshi, but also manga tankoubons and manga anthologies.The Doujinshi & Manga Lexicon:example anthology:As discussed elsewhere, this site doesn't provide data dumps of its database. It is the lone major survivor out of the many other manga listing sites some of which ranged back into the early 1990's. The site runs mostly on autopilot due to scripts that collect data from various scanlator locations. For a very much abridged and sanitized history of scanlation, see:Below is not my post, but I am rewording part of what is from the above two URLs.Through the 1990's and up to 2002, there were several competing manga release information sites like Noated, PRISMS, Anime Web Turnpike, etc. After 2002, there was Manga Jouhou and DailyManga.Manga Jouhou (or manganews.net) has been hacked since 2012 and has not managed to come back which is really bad since Manga Jouhou had a bunch of release information listed from times before the birth of MangaUpdates. Since these long dead scanlation groups don't have a forum, website, or IRC channel, it's all lost information now.This is a Usenet Manga Guide which has been tracking manga release info since 1992 but went dead back in 2004. thread » tart on November 2nd, 2014, 7:00pm Quote from Naeko



The Doujinshi & Manga Lexicon:

http://www.doujinshi.org/



example anthology:

http://www.doujinshi.org/book/2267/Manga-Zettai-Manzoku-1997- 09/

There is one other publicly editable manga database and that is the Mugimugi Doujinshi Database. While it has doujinshi in its URL, this database name is actually "The Doujinshi & Manga Lexicon". It accepts not just doujinshi, but also manga tankoubons and manga anthologies.The Doujinshi & Manga Lexicon:example anthology:



Where in the world do you get the idea that Mugimugi Doujinshi accept manga tankobons? They only accept doujinshi or doujinshi anthologies. That is completely different from MU here where they accept actual published manga tankobons.

Where in the world do you get the idea that Mugimugi Doujinshi accept manga tankobons? They only accept doujinshi or doujinshi anthologies. That is completely different from MU here where they accept actual published manga tankobons. thread » Reyalsdog on November 3rd, 2014, 3:07pm http://www.doujinshi.org/book/156423/ thread

» reanseih on November 2nd, 2014, 7:50pm You must be kidding me. Covers are everywhere! Databases, reviews, wikis, shops... This is just idiotic. They might as well take down the internet!



Hopefully this gets solved. Who doesn't judge a book by the cover? thread

» Dex on November 3rd, 2014, 10:43am Mangaupdates should look for a hosting provider in a civilized country, remaining in the Wildling territory known as the US is getting too costly now. thread