qxc Profile Blog Joined May 2009 United States 550 Posts #1



You want to be stronger? Don't train on Earth you sissy. Train in conditions harder than where you'll be fighting. Train in 10x earth's gravity. 200x earth's gravity. 400x. If you want to win train for something even harder than the competition. We're already seeing this effect with foreigners training in Korea who come home and stomp other foreigners.



You want to be stronger? Don't train on Earth you sissy. Train in conditions harder than where you'll be fighting. Train in 10x earth's gravity. 200x earth's gravity. 400x. If you want to win train for something even harder than the competition. We're already seeing this effect with foreigners training in Korea who come home and stomp other foreigners.



So why not apply this to Starcraft 2? We don't lift weights. We don't need strength (although EG might argue otherwise). But we do need speed. The more the better. So what if we had to play faster. What if we were forced to because of the environment. Play faster or die trying. What if we were forced to train under harsher conditions than normal. What would happen when we returned to normal?



Unfortunately we're all such speed freaks that we're already using the fastest speed enabled in game by Blizzard. In fact I'm convinced that no matter what the 'fastest' speed was (barring ridiculousness) we would probably be gravitating toward that. Remember broodwar? Did blizzard ever intend for competition to be played on fastest?



Enter the map editor. There's no default way to just ramp up the speed as far as I know but there are work arounds. We're living with a map editor powerful enough to make entirely different genres. A lot a lot. No one really knows where the limits of the sc2 editor lay but we certainly havn't hit them yet.



+ Show Spoiler +





What if we created a custom mod. Insert a percentage at the start of the game and everything increases by that amount. Units build that much faster. Units move that much quicker. Upgrades finish that much faster. Resources come in that much quicker. Can you learn to macro and micro correctly at 25% increased normal speed. What about 50%? The possibilities are exciting.



The actual implementation does not seem overtly complicated but certainly would take a decent amount of time in the editor to make right. Either a manual altering of all the relevant data fields for each unit or a trigger that could change them at the game's start. Something along those lines must be possible and in terms of what actually needs to be changed... attack speed/movement speed/build time/harvest time just about covers it across the board.



gl hf



So why not apply this to Starcraft 2? We don't lift weights. We don't need strength (although EG might argue otherwise). But we do need speed. The more the better. So what if we had to play faster. What if we were forced to because of the environment. Play faster or die trying. What if we were forced to train under harsher conditions than normal. What would happen when we returned to normal?Unfortunately we're all such speed freaks that we're already using the fastest speed enabled in game by Blizzard. In fact I'm convinced that no matter what the 'fastest' speed was (barring ridiculousness) we would probably be gravitating toward that. Remember broodwar? Did blizzard ever intend for competition to be played on fastest?Enter the map editor. There's no default way to just ramp up the speed as far as I know but there are work arounds. We're living with a map editor powerful enough to make entirely different genres. A lot a lot. No one really knows where the limits of the sc2 editor lay but we certainly havn't hit them yet.What if we created a custom mod. Insert a percentage at the start of the game and everything increases by that amount. Units build that much faster. Units move that much quicker. Upgrades finish that much faster. Resources come in that much quicker. Can you learn to macro and micro correctly at 25% increased normal speed. What about 50%? The possibilities are exciting.The actual implementation does not seem overtly complicated but certainly would take a decent amount of time in the editor to make right. Either a manual altering of all the relevant data fields for each unit or a trigger that could change them at the game's start. Something along those lines must be possible and in terms of what actually needs to be changed... attack speed/movement speed/build time/harvest time just about covers it across the board.gl hf Progamer Designer of Aeon's End

Wunder Profile Blog Joined April 2010 United Kingdom 2940 Posts #2 5/5. Hyperbolic Time Chamber time BABY Writer @joonjoewong

Newbistic Profile Blog Joined August 2006 China 2911 Posts #3 If you're trying to match Vegeta you might as well start at 50x normal speed and gradually ramp up to 400x. Otherwise you'll never become the best SC2 player in the world. Logic is Overrated

Endymion Profile Blog Joined November 2009 United States 3670 Posts Last Edited: 2011-10-07 07:23:15 #4 The problem is that if you train at 50% higher speed, you'll start cutting corners for 50% play, and when you have to play on standard speed you'll be playing incorrectly. There isn't a short cut to practicing, you just have to play a lot and get better imo. But if you want to then go for it, it'll make you easier to beat in my opinion.



Playing vs the best in korea is different than playing a different game. That would be like saying if you played 1k games of BW instead of 1k games of SC2, you would be better off with the BW practice? Your apm allocation would be all off if you played on increased speed, and even if you supposedly reached the equilibrium in APM with the new level it's not like you would drop down to standard with an extra 150 apm ready for executing more maneuvers because the extra apm gained would be from "standard play" in +50%



Standard Equilibrium BW APM

400



Assumed Standard Equlibrium BW APM +50% speed

600 ( 400 + [400x.5])



With your practice IF you could reach 600, you wouldn't be improving anything but APM, and when you hit it the 600 apm would be for a standard game. So you're saying you would have 200 extra APM when you returned to fastest BW, which you would. But it you wouldn't know how to use it. In context of your example, vegita may be 300x stronger/faster, but he'll still need to put the 300x amount of work into it utilizing it. So for every extra point of APM that you earn, you still need to learn how to allocate that point of APM, it doesn't come naturally.



TL;DR it's do-able, but a completely inefficient way to allocate your practice time.



I don't want some bronze player to come to TL for his first time and be influenced by QXC's reputation as a good player and think that this is a good way to go from bronze to GM, because while it's a bad idea for someone at the pro level, it's utterly detrimental to a new player because they'll be cutting a lot more corners than he will be. Have you considered the MMO-Champion forum? You are just as irrational and delusional with the right portion of nostalgic populism. By the way: The old Brood War was absolutely unplayable

metharon Profile Joined April 2011 Sweden 71 Posts #5 You're a cool man QXC

iGrok Profile Blog Joined October 2010 United States 5008 Posts #6 The triggering would be immense, though simple. Barrin and I have talked about this a lot - its something interesting for sure! MOTM | Stim.tv | TL Mafia | Fantasy Fighting! | SNSD

tgun Profile Blog Joined August 2010 434 Posts Last Edited: 2011-10-07 07:08:00 #7



As a general way of forcing you to play faster; that is, as a crude way to increase your APM, I really like the possibilities of a custom map such as the one you've described.



Also, get back to studying.



RE-EDIT:



Not too sure I quite agree with this; a lot of my ability to inject consistently is that I can roughly mentally realise when it's time to inject again; if the speed was increased (or decreased) this would create problems, as opposed to fixing them.As a general way of forcing you to play faster; that is, as a crude way to increase your APM, I really like the possibilities of a custom map such as the one you've described.Also, get back to studying.RE-EDIT: On October 07 2011 15:58 Endymion wrote:

With your practice IF you could reach 600, you wouldn't be improving anything but APM, and when you hit it the 600 apm would be for a standard game. So you're saying you would have 200 extra APM when you returned to fastest BW, which you would. But it you wouldn't know how to use it. In context of your example, vegita may be 300x stronger/faster, but he'll still need to put the 300x amount of work into it utilizing it. So for every extra point of APM that you earn, you still need to learn how to allocate that point of APM, it doesn't come naturally.



This is (sort of) my same sentiment. This is (sort of) my same sentiment.

procyonlotor Profile Blog Joined January 2011 Italy 472 Posts #8 Obviously you would have to tie weights around your hands and fingers for the true DBZ flavor.

Newbistic Profile Blog Joined August 2006 China 2911 Posts #9 Oh yeah, I also remember reading somewhere that back in the early Brood War days, the way BoxeR practiced was to play team melee vs two people, one doing pure macro and one doing pure micro. That way he could play vs theoretically perfect micro and macro to push himself to the limits. You can try something like that too. Logic is Overrated

Endymion Profile Blog Joined November 2009 United States 3670 Posts #10 On October 07 2011 15:59 tgun wrote:

Show nested quote +

On October 07 2011 15:58 Endymion wrote:

The problem is that if you train at 50% higher speed, you'll start cutting corners for 50% play, and when you have to play on standard speed you'll be playing incorrectly. There isn't a short cut to practicing, you just have to play a lot and get better imo. But if you want to then go for it, it'll make you easier to beat in my opinion.



I can't begin to explain how wrong this is. I can't begin to explain how wrong this is.

thanks for the contribution then? thanks for the contribution then? Have you considered the MMO-Champion forum? You are just as irrational and delusional with the right portion of nostalgic populism. By the way: The old Brood War was absolutely unplayable

Kazeyonoma Profile Blog Joined April 2010 United States 2632 Posts #11 yknow i was thinking this the other day too. if there's anyone who can train it it'd be you pros so here's hoping something gets developed for you guys =D I now have autographs of both BoxeR and NaDa. I can die happy. Lim Yo Hwan and Lee Yun Yeol FIGHTING forever!

tgun Profile Blog Joined August 2010 434 Posts #12 On October 07 2011 16:06 Endymion wrote:

Show nested quote +

On October 07 2011 15:59 tgun wrote:

On October 07 2011 15:58 Endymion wrote:

The problem is that if you train at 50% higher speed, you'll start cutting corners for 50% play, and when you have to play on standard speed you'll be playing incorrectly. There isn't a short cut to practicing, you just have to play a lot and get better imo. But if you want to then go for it, it'll make you easier to beat in my opinion.



I can't begin to explain how wrong this is. I can't begin to explain how wrong this is.

thanks for the contribution then? thanks for the contribution then?



You hadn't elaborated on your post; your initial statement is extremely misleading: he isn't going to be making shortcuts, he's going to be increasing his APM but have no ability to apply it in a standard game, thus making it less useful (in my opinion) than normal practice. You hadn't elaborated on your post; your initial statement is extremely misleading: he isn't going to be making shortcuts, he's going to be increasing his APM but have no ability to apply it in a standard game, thus making it less useful (in my opinion) than normal practice.

archflames Profile Joined September 2010 Mexico 200 Posts #13 that fart at 5:54 cracks me up Beware the rage of a patient man

Endymion Profile Blog Joined November 2009 United States 3670 Posts #14 On October 07 2011 16:09 tgun wrote:

Show nested quote +

On October 07 2011 16:06 Endymion wrote:

On October 07 2011 15:59 tgun wrote:

On October 07 2011 15:58 Endymion wrote:

The problem is that if you train at 50% higher speed, you'll start cutting corners for 50% play, and when you have to play on standard speed you'll be playing incorrectly. There isn't a short cut to practicing, you just have to play a lot and get better imo. But if you want to then go for it, it'll make you easier to beat in my opinion.



I can't begin to explain how wrong this is. I can't begin to explain how wrong this is.

thanks for the contribution then? thanks for the contribution then?



You hadn't elaborated on your post; your initial statement is extremely misleading: he isn't going to be making shortcuts, he's going to be increasing his APM but have no ability to apply it in a standard game, thus making it less useful (in my opinion) than normal practice. You hadn't elaborated on your post; your initial statement is extremely misleading: he isn't going to be making shortcuts, he's going to be increasing his APM but have no ability to apply it in a standard game, thus making it less useful (in my opinion) than normal practice.



It's misleading because I don't make the assumption that QXC will reach the "600" apm. If he did, he wouldn't be cutting corners, but anything sub "equilibrium" apm at +50% speed isn't efficient, so he would have to be cutting corners to play near the same level (the same way a D+ has to cut corners to get to the late game where as an A player doesn't have to because they can correctly allocate the full amount of apm [400] where the D+ player has to allocate an insufficient amount of APM [200] so they can't possibly play a perfect game). It's misleading because I don't make the assumption that QXC will reach the "600" apm. If he did, he wouldn't be cutting corners, but anything sub "equilibrium" apm at +50% speed isn't efficient, so he would have to be cutting corners to play near the same level (the same way a D+ has to cut corners to get to the late game where as an A player doesn't have to because they can correctly allocate the full amount of apm [400] where the D+ player has to allocate an insufficient amount of APM [200] so they can't possibly play a perfect game). Have you considered the MMO-Champion forum? You are just as irrational and delusional with the right portion of nostalgic populism. By the way: The old Brood War was absolutely unplayable

DisaFear Profile Blog Joined September 2010 Australia 4033 Posts Last Edited: 2011-10-07 07:15:10 #15

And then get good at it...

And then, you use two hands! And then you are super-fast



Doesn't make sense, but whatevs

5/5 How about you play one-handed qxc?And then get good at it...And then, you use two hands! And then you are super-fastDoesn't make sense, but whatevs5/5 How devious | http://anartisticanswer.blogspot.com.au/

michielbrands Profile Joined June 2011 Netherlands 1144 Posts #16 amazingly cool idea qxc - me (L) competitive gaming -

masterbreti Profile Blog Joined October 2010 Korea (South) 2638 Posts #17 interesting idea. Though I have to agree with endy on this.



Though with your orignal statement which was more or less how to make training more intense and harder. There are other ways that it can be done. maybe not by speed. But by other factors.

Mithriel Profile Joined November 2010 Netherlands 2949 Posts #18 I think a lot of people got trolled lol, can't wait to see Qxc go SSJ though There is no shame in defeat so long as the spirit is unconquered. | Cheering for Maru, Innovation and MMA!

Jim7 Profile Joined December 2010 United States 154 Posts #19 On October 07 2011 16:04 Newbistic wrote:

Oh yeah, I also remember reading somewhere that back in the early Brood War days, the way BoxeR practiced was to play team melee vs two people, one doing pure macro and one doing pure micro. That way he could play vs theoretically perfect micro and macro to push himself to the limits. You can try something like that too.



What about that instead of speeding up the game? With all the talk about a speed increase being inefficient if you end up cutting corners or messing up timings you would learn over time but it still would force you to play at a higher pace.



Is it even possible in SC2? I've never looked What about that instead of speeding up the game? With all the talk about a speed increase being inefficient if you end up cutting corners or messing up timings you would learn over time but it still would force you to play at a higher pace.Is it even possible in SC2? I've never looked

RobRoy2501 Profile Blog Joined June 2008 United States 177 Posts #20 Definitely something worth trying, I would be interested in the idea that it might make you get a little too used to the faster timings for macro mechanics/build timings etc essentially causing you to cycle more than you need to, as others have said. I wonder though, about maybe just playing a small amount faster, say 10%ish so that you are still essentially right on the timings but still get the benefit of the game being easier to execute than practice. Definitely a great idea to try in various ways though.



I've always thought about doing something other than SC2 to work on reacting, deciding, and moving faster so that physically and mentally you are used to performing quickly on a mouse/keyboard whereas when you play SC2 you are largely working on the strategy. Somewhat like football players working their bodies in the gym and then spending time on technique and strategy on the practice field. The mind is not a vessel to be filled, but a fire to be kindled. -Plutarch

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