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t’s been quite a long time now since the peak of Advice Animal memes, but nothing on the internet ever truly dies. Bad Luck Brian, whose real name is Kyle Craven, was one of the most popular Advice Animal formats back in 2012 when it was first uploaded to Reddit. After nearly a decade, Kyle has grown up, graduated from college, gotten married and even has two children. He’s starred in commercials for McDonald’s, been featured in dozens of board games, may even have an upcoming movie about his meme alter-ego, and might just be one of the most interesting success stories of someone capitalizing on their unintended internet fame. We recently sat down with Kyle to catch up on his life, uncover the origin of the infamous photo and ask him what it’s like to be on the other side of such an influential meme.

Q: Let’s start by catching up on what you’re currently doing, where you’re living and how life’s going. Tell us some of the biggest impacts the meme had on your life.

A: Sure. So since the photo came out in 2012, I think at the time I was graduating college with a construction management degree from Kent State University. Since then, I got married to my high school sweetheart. We've been together for 15 years now.







(Kyle and his family)

Q: Did she fall in love with you because of the meme?

A: [laughs] She did not. Thank God. We actually were dating prior to that picture being taken. Anyways, I currently live in Broadview Heights, Ohio in a little house and we have two kids. I am working at a construction company here. So big impacts, it’s definitely given me some extra spending money. I like to call it my “weekend project.” It's given me a lot of opportunities to travel and go off to Los Angeles a few times and Chicago. Right now I'm in a museum in Bern, Switzerland. So yeah, definitely a lot of opportunities that I would never have had the chance of doing. It's definitely life-changing, but [it doesn’t define my life]. I live a pretty normal life outside the fact that my face is all over the internet.

Q: It’s been over eight years now since your famous photograph became a meme. Has the massive influx of meme variations lessened your legacy?

A: Well, yeah. In 2012 when my meme came out, it was kind of a generation where it was somebody's picture and then the text over it. And I feel like those types of memes have kind of died in the past few years. I see online people posting about “Oh, the good old days of memes,” and you know Overly Attached Girlfriend or Scumbag Steve, so it's definitely changing--which it should. All these are like fads and they come in and out, so it changes with the times.





Q: I want to go back to the day of the photo. Can you recap the story and give us details about what happened and what the idea was behind that?

A: I think I was a sophomore in high school. I went to Archbishop Hoban, and picture days were always fun days for me. My buddies [and I], we always used to dress up and take stupid pictures and try to get them into the yearbook. My parents hated it because they were paying money for me to do a joke, but I didn't care. So I went down to the thrift store and got that sweater vest, then picked a purple background on purpose. I'm getting up there [to the photoshoot], and I'm rubbing my eyes like crazy so they got nice and swollen. I was trying not to laugh too, like half the battle was trying not to crack up cause me and my buddies were all there. So I do the underbite smile, take the picture and the lady's face was just like “Jesus Christ. Who is this kid?” So we take the picture and then you don't see it right away.



A month later it comes back, and they’re handing out pictures in school. I get my picture, and I'm like, “Oh, this is the best picture I've ever taken. Hilarious.” Me and my buddies are laughing, and not more than 10 minutes [later], my principal pulled me out and goes, “Picture retakes are tomorrow, you're expected to be there. I'm not putting this picture in my yearbook.” And I’m like, “Damn.” So I went home, scanned it and put it on my Facebook. It sat there for two or three years, something like that. Then my buddy picked it off my Facebook and eventually posted it to a meme generator site we used and then on Reddit. Then it just blew up.







(Ian Davies, the original uploader of the meme to Reddit, and Kyle)

Q: Why do you think your principal was upset by it?

A: That was my sophomore year. She already had one year of me just goofing off in school, so she was probably already fed up with me. We didn't have a great relationship. Looking back at it now that I’m 10 years removed from high school. Yeah. I was probably a terrible student.

Q: Do you ever talk to your old principal or anybody from the school about it?

A: Definitely teachers will bring it up. That principal is now retired, so I haven't seen her since I graduated. I've run into a lot of teachers, and they've always brought it up to me how funny they think it is. The other thing is they'll say students ask about it all the time and can't believe that Bad Luck Brian went to school there. What our high school does is they'll post our senior pictures in the hallway, so they always go and point me out of the classes and show the kids. It's cool. I'm still waiting for them to put me up a plaque though.

Q: At the time, how wise were you in the ways of memes? Were you into that culture before you became a meme yourself?

A: Yeah, definitely was already a part of it. Me and my buddy Ian--he’s the one that posted the meme--we were definitely big Redditor guys. We were making memes ourselves, so I'd say we were definitely into it. When it started taking off, we were obviously pretty shocked, as anybody would be, and thought it was hilarious.





Q: Did you guys originally come up with the idea for the picture thinking that it would become a meme or did it just sort of happen?

A: No. The picture itself was not like a master plan of “hey, we're gonna take a goofy picture and turn it into a meme someday.” It was more of a “I took a goofy picture--like I've taken a thousand goofy pictures over the years--and this one just so happened to be the right one that people picked up on.”

Q: When you first realized Bad Luck Brian was becoming a bit of a phenomenon, how did you react? Did you hate it at first or love it from the start?

A: At first, I thought it would die like everything on the internet dies out in a week or two. So I really didn't put too much thought into it, you know? I thought it was funny as hell, but then when it didn't die and it was just getting bigger and bigger, it was kind of overwhelming. Like “holy shit, this is really, really taking off now.” So there was definitely a shock factor for a few weeks and then it just, over time, became normal. I get people that come up to me [now] and [say] like, “Oh my God, it must be crazy.” [But] it’s normal life now. There was definitely a few weeks there where it was just mind-boggling what was going on with it.







(Ian and Kyle years later)

Q: How did your friends and family react to the meme when it happened?

A: So my friends, they all thought it was funny and no one was too overly shocked [that we] had a picture online that was organically growing into this huge meme. But my family really didn't understand it at first.

Q: Did your parents know what memes were before you became one? Or was it kind of after the fact?

A: No. It was all after. They had no idea what a meme was. So I had to kind of explain it to them that I don't write them. You get online and look at memes, you know, a lot of them [Bad Luck Brian memes] were talking about “shittin’ pants” or whatever. And you're like, “Nah, I didn't write those. Other people write those.” So there was some explaining with that. But at first they really didn't think it was big, and I didn't even tell them about it until I thought it was something that was big. They still just blew it off. Then my mom is a teacher at a middle school and somebody came into school one day with a T-shirt that had my face on it, and she was like, “Ooh, where'd you get this?” I think it was a hot topic they got at. She was like, “Well, do you know who this is?” He goes, “Yeah. It’s Bad Luck Brian. Everybody knows who Bad Luck Brian is.” And so I think that's where it really clicked in her mind like, “Oh, well this is kind of big. I guess Kyle was right.”

Q: Does anyone recognize you out in the world still? What are those interactions like? Any particularly weird or negative ones you’ve had over the years?

A: Yeah. So funny enough, the place I get recognized the most is anytime I go to a Chipotle. And it's not like the same Chipotle, it's any Chipotle I go into. It's always--I get this look, and they're looking at me, and you could just tell they recognize me from somewhere, but they can't put it together. And then they sit there and sit there and go, “Oh, are you the guy, the internet meme guy?” And I go, “Uhh, yeah. That’s me.” And they always freak out. But it's so funny, I was just telling my wife this like two weeks ago, it's always damn Chipotles I get recognized at. [laughs] I don't know what it is. But no, I do get recognized here and there, and it's not usually somebody who goes, “You look like Bad Luck Brian.” It's always somebody who has seen an interview or seen an update or a commercial or whatever it may be.





Q: You were once recognized by Seth Rogen in public, what was that like and have you met any other famous people?

A: Yeah. A long, long time ago. We were down in New Orleans doing Habitat For Humanity and eating at a taco place. He was sitting in the next row over and the waitress brought us over to him because they wanted to meet, and I'm like, “Oh, okay. Cool.” So we actually got to meet him at the same time. But yeah, [it was a] really quick interaction. A cool guy. I've done VidCon a couple times and so every time you go out there you meet some other celebrities, so it's cool running into people.





Q: Do you think Seth Rogan or Bad Luck Brian has had a more lasting impact with online humor?

A: [laughs] If you're saying online humor, I would probably say Bad Luck Brian. If you're saying movies, yes, definitely Seth Rogan. There's no doubt about that.

Q: You haven't been approached with any movie deals yet?

A: No. Actually, I’m working with a guy who wrote a script, and they're looking to develop a Bad Luck Brian movie right now.

Q: Wow, that's awesome. You have to let us know anything about that as it develops.

A: Yeah. Hopefully something happens. If not, they’re wasting a lot of time.





Q: So how well do you know other “meme-celebs” like Laina Morris “Overly Attached Girlfriend?” Do you stay in touch with any of them?

A: I've hung out with her a handful of times. I did a video for her YouTube channel one time and she flew me out to LA. I did a commercial for RealPlayer that was probably 5 years ago, so we were out in Denver together for a few days. Then I’ve seen her a couple of times at VidCon. I mean every time I see her we’ve talked a little bit, but I wouldn't call us best friends by any means. Other than her, not really. Scumbag Steve I’ve talked to a few times, but nothing in the past 5 years. I've met a lot of other [people from] memes that aren't as popular. Actually when I did that RealPlayer commercial, I met College Freshman [Uber Frosh]. So, yeah. There are a few I've met over the years like the hillbilly guy [Almost Politically Correct Redneck]. He was not happy about his meme.

Q: Unlike some people featured in prominent memes, you seem to have embraced the online notoriety. Why do you think your meme-fame was different than others who have shied away or acted negatively towards that?

A: The one thing some people don't understand with things that blow up on the internet is the more you try to shy away from it or ignore it--there are so many trolls online that love it. [With] Sheltered College Freshman, she said she hated it. People pick up on that and just try to blow it up even more because they [people online] just love hating on people. But my view on all of it is that it's hilarious, and if I could make some money off of it, great. If I can get a little fame off of it, great. And it's something that's gonna last forever on the internet. So I think it's hilarious. I'm all for it. The thing is, all memes are jokes. There's not too many serious memes out there. That's kind of the point of a meme. It's more [of a way] to shine light on a funny topic or to tell a story about a situation that happened to you in a memey and quick, shareable way.





Q: Tell us a little about how you capitalized on the internet fame. What went into the deals with Walmart, Hot Topic, Volkswagen and more recently McDonald's?

A: We found out early on that the way to make money off the meme is to license the image. So that's where we started. We started with T-shirts and that's when it was in Walmart and Hot Topic. Then that moved into licensing it for a Volkswagen commercial for some Super Bowl. It's just really sporadic as far as when deals come in and what the offers are. But I've done a lot of board games and people use the image in different meme-themed games and that's made some decent money over the years. The funny thing is with all these deals, I get copies of it [the games]. So I'll get like 20 copies of the game that comes out. You go to my basement, and I just have tons of copies of all these games I've been in. I think it's up to like 12 different versions of all these games right now.



When you do these licensing deals, you don't just license it for one game, you'll do it for like a group of five. They don't tell you when they're coming out or anything. So the other day I'm in a local pharmacy, and I'm looking and going, “Oh, the game came out.” And it was an actual puzzle. I've never been in a puzzle before, but right there I'm on the cover. So I pulled over and I bought it then, took it home, and my wife's like, “Wow, you're so cool for buying your own game.”



McDonald's approached us last year, and that was a pretty fun and interesting partnership we had. They hired us first to just do online content, and then I ended up shooting this commercial and it actually played on TV. So it was very cool. They flew me out to LA and then off to Chicago--I'm not an actor by any means, so that was a little bit of a learning curve trying to memorize the two lines I had. It's fun, had a blast. And I had more of a blast writing to all my friends that I was doing a McDonald’s commercial.







(Kyle at the shoot for the McDonald's commercial)

Q: What was the reception like for those campaigns?

A: I don't know, everybody pretty much thinks it’s super amazing that my image is on a game or a T-shirt. I'll get people that tweet me or send me a text message that says, “Hey, in Walmart I just saw your face on this T-shirt.” And I'm like, “Oh, sweet.” You know? That's awesome. So I haven't had anybody going “that's ridiculous,” and I don't think anybody would say that. Definitely the biggest thing I've done has gotta be the McDonald's commercial. [A] nationwide commercial is a pretty huge thing to do. That one I did get a lot of text messages going, “Holy shit I was just watching a TV show and I swear I saw you on a commercial.” Cause I didn't tell anybody. I couldn't tell anybody prior to it coming out. It was kind of a surprise for everybody.

Q: You haven't gotten any people who are like, “Oh he sold out.” Some people are like that about things online, you know?

A: [laughs] Yeah, no. I’d laugh at them and tell them like, “You’re ridiculous.” If McDonald's came to you and offered you some money to do a commercial, like you would turn it down. Yeah. “I'm too good for McDonald's money.”

Q: Yeah, right? “They don't have enough money to spare. I don't think I want to do that.”

A: [laughs] Yeah. They are a great group of people to work with. Easy and it’s always fun.





Q: Do you think more people should embrace their meme characters and take advantage of that?

A: Yeah, I mean, we talked a little earlier about the “racist redneck guy.” Those types of memes are difficult to embrace. But there's not a ton of those out there, so the majority of people should embrace it. The worst thing you could do is try to hide it or shun away from it because that's not how the internet works. You can't stop it from growing. People ask me a lot about, “Man I should post my picture online, and I'll become famous.” That sounds great, but that's not how it works. I didn't set out to become a famous internet meme. It’s just that I was lucky, and it organically grew to where it is now. It’s hard to get something to blow up trying, you know? It just doesn't work that way.

Q: So what’re you up to on the internet these days? Do you have a particular platform or place you spend most of your time?

A: Personally, I'm on Reddit most of my time when I'm on the internet. I love browsing Reddit. It’s so addicting. I do watch a lot of YouTube videos. My go-to is informational videos, like quick, seven-minute videos [about] “how many people die off the golden gate bridge over the years.” I love watching those ones. I will browse Facebook here and there. Facebook is overrated. I'm not really big into Facebook. I really don't care to see what kids I went to high school with are up to. No one really posts real stuff on Facebook anyway. It's crap. I’ll browse Instagram or TikTok--cracks me up. That's about it.





Q: Do you like or dislike how memes have evolved since the heyday of Bad Luck Brian and Advice Animals, why?

A: I definitely like how everything is evolving. It's fun times. It is a little upsetting that the whole standard memes that were original have kind of died out and you don't see them as much. I love the Scumbag Steve ones, those always crack me up or even Grumpy Cat. Those memes are hilarious. Other than that, I have no problem with how memes are now evolving and how people are sharing. It's across every platform. With TikTok, which is such an up-and-coming platform these days, there's no memes. It's all different short videos, so there's no place for still-image memes anymore. It's just different, and I have no problem with it. I'm fine with all of it.

Q: What are some of your favorite memes making the rounds currently, any you dislike? What about particular subreddits?

A: Oh shit … I don’t know. You know what subreddit I get into and I just absolutely start going down a rabbit hole? Legal advice, r/legaladvice. Oh my God, dude. I can be on there for an hour. I have no idea--anything about legal [advice], but it's just very interesting to read about people's legal problems. I don't even look at the responses. I just look at what people are saying. It's just crazy what situations people get themselves into. I love that subreddit. As far as memes, I don’t really know man. What are some of your favorite ones?

Q: SpongeBob memes are always a personal favorite, but I feel like it's just part of us growing up with the show. I also really love Doge. That one actually won our “Meme of the Decade.” I was pleasantly surprised. I thought Pepe was going to win. I don't know another meme that was in the news quite like that.

A: Hell no, definitely number one. Absolutely. Yeah. It was in the news all the time.

Q: Do you have a personal meme of the decade that you’d choose?

A: Oh gosh, man. I feel the most popular meme is Grumpy Cat because everybody loved that stupid cat. It was such a sharable, funny meme. I think out of all the memes that was the most recognizable. They could take that cat to a meet and greet and there’d be a line for five hours at least.





Q: In closing, if you could go back to that day at school when you decided to take a goofy picture, would you do it all over again?

A: Yes, 100 percent. No doubt. The question is, would my buddy post my picture again, or would he have posted his own picture on Reddit?

Q: Any words to your fans?

A: Hmm, good question. Don't take the internet too seriously. You never know, you might become a meme some day. People get offended easily on the internet and you really gotta take it as a joke.





Q: That's a good philosophy.

A: Why live life being mad when you can laugh once in a while, you know?



