Vegetarian Wolf Profile Joined May 2010 China 191 Posts October 18 2016 21:25 GMT #1 Twist at the end. Original link -



Clearlove has problems. Big problems. A few words.



Point 1. Pussy.



How many times have you seen Clearlove initiate a teamfight? TF Flash Gold Card, he follows up. Kassadin jumps in, he follows. Pawn basically initiates with his life; Clearlove uses his life to mooch KDA.



Clearlove builds full tank but is afraid to initiate. Even when the timing is right, he’s always the second one in. Why? Because as the initiator, when you win the fight it’s 666 [T/N: Chinese slang for nice, slick, etc.]; but when you lose, it’s all your fault. This has absolutely nothing to do with team strategy/style. No matter what team he’s on, he’s a pussy. WE, All-Stars, EDG. Always a pussy. He is destined to be a coward, afraid of taking the blame.



Lovelin played countless games against Clearlove, and he understands Clearlove’s problems very clearly. Which is why when OMG was on top of the world he bantered “Clearlove can't jungle.”





"Cool: Lovelin says Clearlove can't jungle.



Do you know why U and Clearlove weren’t compatible? Because U was also a pussy. With these two people, who can you depend on to initiate? Clearlove is, in the end, the team bully. U’s Ziggs won’t initiate? The end result: U’s gone.



To be fair, during EDG’s Clearlove-U era, EDG was frighteningly safe. Safe to the point when you can lose a game to Taiwan after being up 10k gold. Safe to the point where you literally never initiate teamfights despite being up, and end up getting initiated on when Namei gets hooked. Congratulations Namei, you have successfully shouldered the blame. Safe to the point where Clearlove’s first thought after seeing Namei got hooked was “nice, this one’s on Namei, not my fault!”







When EDG first acquired Deft and Pawn, Clearlove wasn’t that impressed by Pawn. His sole focus was on Deft, because he understands Deft’s skill makes it much easier for him to perform as a moocher. Recall that when Deft joined EDG, he was widely regarded as the best teamfighting ADC. Clearlove’s thought process is to just bait and wait for the other team to initiate (cause he’s too pussy to start the teamfight himself), and then use his full tank build (constantly farming Wraiths, “ganking” while smiting cannon creep, “helping” with wolves, he can always assure a certain amount of farm for himself). Absorb a round of damage, and then let Deft, the teamfighting ADC god, command the game. That’s his little plan. But then the problems came.





Off to farm wraiths right before a teamfight



After a while with the new EDG roster, Clearlove discovered Deft has mentality issues. How often does Deft cry when he loses? All the time. He’s someone who will randomly TP in place when nervous. Even though Clearlove’s mechanics are bad and he has a pussy mindset, he has a good head, and he can clearly see Deft’s issues. He realizes Deft isn’t clutch enough.



But at the same time, he discovered Pawn’s value. Pawn’s always willing to fight, no matter who the opponent is. Faker can bear witness to this with his life. And most importantly, Pawn is willing to start fights! Previously, Clearlove could only wait for opponent’s initiation and then counter-engage (this way, even if they lose it’s not his fault, you can just say: “they had a great initiate!” But when you win, it’s “unbeatable teamfighting, great counter-engage, etc.”) Pawn, who’s willing to initiate with his life, is perfect for Clearlove, because now you don’t have to rely on the other team to engage and you get some control over the tempo of the game. So from this point on, Clearlove stopped duo queuing with Deft and started queuing with Pawn and wait for him to engage in games. Win? 666. Lose? Korean’s fault, not my problem.







Who was the one who wanted Deft initially? Clearlove. Clearlove was focused on Deft’s teamfight ADC reputation, and got a buy 1 get 1 free deal with a Pawn-Daddy [T/N: Koreans in LPL who do well/carry are called “dads”] For a period, EDG was unstoppable, and people started talking about EDG’s unbeatable mid-jungle combo. At MSI, vs. SKT, Clearlove proclaimed “I believe Pawn and I can defeat the opposition!”



Again, Clearlove is smart. He didn’t say “I will beat Bengi,” but he dragged Pawn in with him.



Everyone knows Koro is Clearlove’s apprentice [T/N: Debatable. Word is Koro was “discovered” by Clearlove from a minor team, RS/solo queue and that’s how he got in EDG as a relative unknown when the team was formed] Clearlove taught Koro all he knew in three words: Pussy! Tank! Mooch! He didn’t hold anything back. But unfortunately, Koro didn’t live up to expectations! Fzzf’s opinion of Koro is: When Koro awakens, he will shock the world. Fzzf realized Koro has the heart of a Carry, and isn’t willing to just be a mooch.



When did Koro awaken? MSI. It’s fair to say that without Koro’s excellent performance at MSI, EDG would not have been able to win. During MSI, Huni said he didn’t want to play EDG because he didn’t want to lane vs. Koro. MSI was a tank meta, which was perfect for Clearlove. Koro, in addition to learning the best of Clearlove, also has a willingness to fight and stand strong. He was the No. 1 of MSI. His personality, however, also means he could never be a true pussy like Clearlove, which is what led to the eventual dispute.



Tangent: When discussing Clearlove, we must also mention Lovelin.

+ Show Spoiler +

Lovelin has problems too. What problems? Retarded, easily confused, reckless. But he’s not a pussy! After all, he’s reckless.



Why I she a retard? When the team has the vision advantage, he’s willing to initiate, very decisively. The fight looks great, but sometimes they randomly lose. Everyone gets hype when watching it, which is why everyone loved S4’s OMG – even though they lose sometimes, it still felt honorable, and the games were enjoyable. In the end they lost to Uzi, but no one could really say anything besides “IOU” memes. [T/N: “___ owes OMG a World Championship” was a common meme. Think OMG = FNC/TSM in the west.]





Retard initiate? Or...







In contrast, when EDG loses, everyone flames them. The first time around, EDG basically had to disband. The Hooked One Namei and U had to GTFO.



Similarly, however, Lovelin also initiates when the vision situation isn’t ideal. His Lee Sin is willing to show off mechanics. He’s just always willing to fight. He’s not a pussy, he’ll fight! When they win, it’s beautiful. When they lose, he’s retarded. To the point when OMG eventually imploded, he was the first one to take the blame. This is the reason.

Lovelin has problems too. What problems? Retarded, easily confused, reckless. But he’s not a pussy! After all, he’s reckless.Why I she a retard? When the team has the vision advantage, he’s willing to initiate, very decisively. The fight looks great, but sometimes they randomly lose. Everyone gets hype when watching it, which is why everyone loved S4’s OMG – even though they lose sometimes, it still felt honorable, and the games were enjoyable. In the end they lost to Uzi, but no one could really say anything besides “IOU” memes. [T/N: “___ owes OMG a World Championship” was a common meme. Think OMG = FNC/TSM in the west.]In contrast, when EDG loses, everyone flames them. The first time around, EDG basically had to disband. The Hooked One Namei and U had to GTFO.Similarly, however, Lovelin also initiates when the vision situation isn’t ideal. His Lee Sin is willing to show off mechanics. He’s just always willing to fight. He’s not a pussy, he’ll fight! When they win, it’s beautiful. When they lose, he’s retarded. To the point when OMG eventually imploded, he was the first one to take the blame. This is the reason.



WE, All-Star, EDG. Every single team that Clearlove has been on. In review, whenever they win, Clearlove is not the one to carry. When they lose, Clearlove is also not the one who makes the bulk of the mistakes and the one who has to shoulder the blame.



He’s like an invisible man.



When they win, you have no idea what he did. Maybe he’ll “playfully” miss a Q, and do an awkward little smile. Everyone thinks: “oh well, they still have a huge advantage, Clearlove was just dicking around. It’s not reflective of underlying mechanics issues. After all, word on the street is Clearlove’s Lee Sin will show you who’s boss in Solo Queue.”







When they lose, you have no idea what he did. You can see his teammates get caught, but he will rely on his brilliant game sense and clever pathing to survive. When the game ends, you look at the scoreboard: 0-0-2. Caomei? 3-8-10. Caomei inted, obviously. Top die 8 times? Fucking troll.



He’s like an invisible man. It’s possible that after an entire game, you have no idea what he was doing.



Sometimes the camera pans to him and you see him farm creeps with impeccable technique. Every single jungle creep on Summoner’s Rift quakes at the name “Clearlove.” Sometimes the camera pans to him and you see him on the way to countergank…or maybe he was just on the way to farm some creeps and just happened to walk past the enemy jungler. His jungle camp refresh timing is beyond godlike.



During teamfights, you will see Clearlove on camera in one of two ways: 1. Super slick moves in the clean-up. 2. Cleverly running away.





Watch the minimap



He’s like an invisible man.



Point 2: Mooch



While talking about how he’s a mooch, let’s take a moment to talk about his mechanics.



First and foremost, my personal view his, his mechanics are fine. If you watch Clearlove in solo queue, you will discover he’s a god. Full damage build, flanks, Insecs, Q-Q Ward Hop Kick, repositioning with Flash, etc. Jarvan EQ, Reksai clutch tunnels, etc. Really, he has no problem from a mechanics perspective. Maybe a little slow on reactions compared to some players, but really, he’s a veteran player with the reputation of being a hard worker. He can pretty much do any mechanical play you can think of.



But the problem is, this is only in solo queue or in unimportant games. Which is why everyone says Clearlove is a ladder god.







Clearlove has a personal Tieba [T/N: like a subreddit. R/TSM, r/Clearlove, etc.] From the surface, Clearlove’s reputation is he is chasing a dream and doesn’t care about his reputation. In reality this is only half right. Clearlove is a very vain person and cares strongly about his reputation. He really does. He will often go to his Tieba and read comments on him. Due to certain incidents [T/N: Long story. I can elaborate later] he just lurks and doesn’t reply anymore, and just pretends he doesn’t come anymore.



And you can tell from his interviews, Clearlove really cares about his reputation and legacy. So yes, he works hard, and why he’ll flame his teammates if they don’t practice, and is willing to go head to head with Weixiao. As a team, you can’t get in the way of his dream and his legacy.



“I will prove to the world who the best jungler is.”



So why is he a god in solo queue but a pussy in tournament? Why will he try to defend his KDA at all cost in losing games? Why is he willing to do the “helping” with wolves? In my opinion this is really a huge blackmark against Clearlove. It was rubbing salt into the wound for Koro.







Clearlove is defending his KDA with his life, which is why his stats are usually decent in losing games and exceptional in winning games. He always chooses to take the safe benefit path, and his farm and economy is usually very strong, even if the team collapses.





KDA is in danger? Run!



So why is it that someone who constantly has good mechanics in solo queue never has a single standout mechanical moment in tournament? Lovelin, TBQ, these kinds of players all had their moments. Do you really think TBQ is a better mechanical player than Clearlove?



When they win, Clearlove gets honor and glory. There’s no disputing that. But when they lose you can’t find any big problems with him, and he knows this too. Every time EDG gets wiped, you can almost guarantee it wasn’t Clearlove’s fault, nor was it caused by his inopportune initiation (again, because he rarely initiates – he can’t risk it). So even when they lose the game, he’s still Clearlove, the most stable and reliable person on the team. Totally able to keep playing another season.







Clearlove doesn’t want to leave this stage. Have you ever heard Clearlove say he wants to retire? Never. He’s terrified people will think he’s not good enough anymore, and he’s terrified of getting to a point where he is so bad in game that he has to retire. He still hasn’t won Worlds yet. To be honest, he’s just a very insecure person, which is why he’s so desperate for a Worlds trophy to prove he’s good.



It’s a mentality issue. Clearlove is too vain, and cares too much what people think about him. He wants to win too much, which is why he’s a pussy. He is afraid to be the one to take responsibility for a loss, nor does he want to. He even gave up the Captain position to Koro. Responsibiilty? The word is too heavy for Clearlove, he won’t bear it.



A detail you guys should pay attention to: Whenever EDG gets aced, Clearlove never has the worst expression (because it’s not his fault), but whenever he gets caught, he really has a terrible expression (because it’s undeniably his fault).











Let’s continue discussing why he’s a mooch.



For a LoL player, even a random solo queue player, one question: How do you prove you’re good even if you’re not that great? Or, to give a concrete example: You’re a Plat player dropped in a Challenger game. How do you play???



(Clearlove is honestly OK. Even though his reaction isn’t great his mechanics are fine, but his mentality dictates his lackluster performances in big tournament matches. A Lee Sin who doesn’t initiate is useless. An Elise that’s afraid to dive towers is useless. Which is why everyone says Clearlove isn’t great at these two champions – honestly he’s fine with them in solo queue, but they don’t fit with his self-determined “role” as a mooch. Know that initiating and diving can both lead to disaster and responsibility! Which is why Clearlake hardly ever ganks – if you get counterganked and lose, it’s all the jungler’s fault!)



Clearlove is smart, but he’s not confident. He’s afraid his mechanics aren’t good enough, combined with the avoid responsibility mentality. It means during games, he is like a Plat player playing in a Challenger game. Now is not the time to compare mechanics, so he chooses to play “intelligently.”



So how does he play “intelligently”?



First aspect: Stay close to your carry, stay far away from your feeders. Very simple: with your carry, an Assist counts towards your KDA to. With your feeder? Heh…



Let’s put it this way: when U was around, have you ever seen Clearlove gank mid? Back then, Namei was universally recognized as a top 3 ADC in China. Clearlove identified him as the carry, the Challenger booster, so you have to protect him. Which is why EDG plays bot-oriented.



When Deft showed up, his reputation was even better than Namei. Number 1 teamfighting ADC, Best AD Korea, etc., and Clearlove was the one who suggested EDG management get Deft in the first place. OK, great, keep camping bot.



And then, when Clearlove discovers Deft’s mindset isn’t great but Pawn is the true 666 fighting carry, “OK Bot just play safe, we need to play Mid-Jungle combos!”



We come to S6, when Koro got benched due to contract/salary disputes. AmazingJ gets put in. Everyone knows it’s a Top-oriented meta. I know it, you know, it, Clearlove and Aaron must’ve known it too.



But the problem is Clearlove clearly doesn’t trust AJ. Even though it’s a Top carry meta, Pawn and Deft are his “carries.” So in this situation, should he protect the Master-level AmazingJ, or should he choose the Mid-Bot Challenger-tier Pawn and Deft?



Another tangent. Kakao.

+ Show Spoiler + iG imploded in S5. One school of thought is Kakao is the feeder/mooch. Why? Because after watching iG’s games, everyone felt like Kakao didn’t really do anything.

But that’s not a fair judgment. A mooch is someone who is unimportant to the entire situation.

Kakao, no, he didn’t play great recently. But a mooch? Definitely not.



As a person, Kakao can be summarized in two traits:



1. He doesn’t trust his teammates. Kakao is a very arrogant person. He doesn’t know Chinese, but likes speaking Korean with Rookie. I speculate the most common thing they say is “too heavy, can’t carry!” Rookie is the only person he trusts on iG. If you observe carefully, you see whenever iG wins a game, Kakao and Rookie embrace and high five. And then Rookie turns around to do the same with Kid. Kakao turns around, sees Zzitai, and…there is no and.



2. He’s arrogant, and plays selfish. When Kakao was on KT, he was like Rookie’s big brother. When KT’s identity was formed, Kakao was at the center of their strategy. His style is counterjungle, counterjungle, and then more counterjungle. Whenever he’s in the jungle, the entirety of KT is ready to back him up. Wherever Kakao is, Rookie is. Compare to S3’s Faker and Bengi. For them, wherever Faker is, Bengi is.



KT’s “can’t CS for shit” ADC – why? Because he has to help Kakao in the Jungle. How can you sincerely say you’re helping your Jungling big bro if you don’t miss some CS?



Wang Sicong was the one who wanted Kakao. Kakao thinks of Rookie as his little bro, so he brings him along – easy money, easy job in China. iG bought Kakao, but they didn’t buy KT’s overall style and strategy. So Kakao became “bad.”



What did “Bad Kakao” do at Worlds? No Sightstone, DPS build. He wanted to carry! For someone who can only try to play this in-your-dreams carry style jungle – how can he be a mooch? Clearlove is a mooch. Kakao isn’t. Kakao just got owned for being too confident. Sure he played bad, but he’s not a mooch.



OK, back to Clearlove’s Plat-in-Challenger analysis. We discussed the first aspect: – stay close to carries, abandon feeders. Second aspect: KDA.



In low elo, you compare kills. Whoever has more kills is the better player.

In high elo, whoever has the flashiest mechanics is the better player. Riven mechanics 666.

What about in Challenger? Show off your Insec, and Insec a Garen into your team?



No, in Challenger, you show off your statistics. Your KDA. You don’t need absurd flashy plays, you want “game sense” and “game knowledge.” What is game sense? Game sense is, “you don’t even know what I did but I won. And my KDA was good to boot, you don’t even understand what I did.” What’s the scariest thing? The unknown. You don’t even know how he beat you, how do you even go about countering it?



Everyone reflexively checks the scoreboard at the end of the game. Clearlove – such good KDA, you lost even when he’s on your team? Just how noob are you?



Lastly, we must admit, Clearlove’s intelligence really saved him. Every team he’s on ends up with players flamed to retirement. But not him. Just look:

Caomei? Always gives first blood, always playing from behind.



Misaya? Bitch, go stream.



Weixiao? Got old. Got noob.



PDD? One shot from Jayce, show you who’s boos. Noob.



U? Mr. Only Plays 3 Champs?



Namei? Get hooked. PS, stop eating beef noodles.



Koro? Got arrogant, want exorbitant salary. Get benched.



Deft? TP in place.



Pawn? Honestly you can’t say anything against Pawn.



But Clearlove. Does Clearlove have any problems? Naaaah. He has dreams. He’s a hard worker. Teamfight oriented Jungler. Stable performance, good at counterinitiating.



When you lose it can’t possibly be his fault.



Trivia time.



Q: What’s Clearlove’s spirit Champion?

+ Show Spoiler + Nunu. Full tank, give a buff to the ADC in teamfights and you’re done. Perfect.



Q: What champions are worst for Clearlove?

+ Show Spoiler + Lee Sin. Responsible for initiating, and needs to be flashy. Need to accomplish something with your level 6 gank. Lovelin’s favorite.



+ Show Spoiler + Elise. Tower diving is par for the course. Your jungle is my jungle, my jungle is…still my jungle. Kakao’s favorite.



Q: What meta is good for Clearlove?

+ Show Spoiler + MSI’s tank meta. Clearlove’s heaven.



Also ADC focused meta. WE Weixiao’s era. As a tank, you just need to absorb some damage. Clearlove can do that fine.



Q: What meta exposes Clearlove?

+ Show Spoiler + Fighting meta. Season 6, mooches are exposed.



Assassin meta. WE’s dream ends in Season 3. Faker descends.



“Carnivore” jungle meta, aka “tempo” meta. Season 4. Dandy Rengar king, SSW and SSB.



Finally, a poem for Clearlove:

Yes I am a pussy. I’m ‘fraid of getting blamed.

Yes I am a mooch. I’m here for KDA.

Lee Sin is not great, don’t make me initiate.

Elise does not thrive, I don’t want to dive.



If you ask me what I like, well it must be Nunu.

Nunu eats the jungle creeps, his farming is absurd.



I pretend to gank, then I smite the cannon.

I pretend to help, then I smite the wolves.

I can walk past and ignore everything except the jungle camps.

You think I’m here to help, really I’m here to farm.

After Wraiths, then it’s Wolves, the farming just began.



On this stage. I will prove who the best jungler is.







SO WHAT WAS THE TWIST???



+ Show Spoiler +

Yep.



Pictures added for effect. Mostly taken from Pictures added for effect. Mostly taken from http://tieba.baidu.com/p/4826301240?see_lz=1&pn=1

Came across a funny/detailed post from Tieba analyzing Clearlove.Original link - http://tieba.baidu.com/p/4107946982?pid=77573803066&see_lz=1#98873713845l Clearlove has problems. Big problems. A few words.How many times have you seen Clearlove initiate a teamfight? TF Flash Gold Card, he follows up. Kassadin jumps in, he follows. Pawn basically initiates with his life; Clearlove uses his life to mooch KDA.Clearlove builds full tank but is afraid to initiate. Even when the timing is right, he’s always the second one in. Why? Because as the initiator, when you win the fight it’s 666 [T/N: Chinese slang for nice, slick, etc.]; but when you lose, it’s all your fault. This has absolutely nothing to do with team strategy/style. No matter what team he’s on, he’s a pussy. WE, All-Stars, EDG. Always a pussy. He is destined to be a coward, afraid of taking the blame.Lovelin played countless games against Clearlove, and he understands Clearlove’s problems very clearly. Which is why when OMG was on top of the world he bantered “Clearlove can't jungle.”Do you know why U and Clearlove weren’t compatible? Because U was also a pussy. With these two people, who can you depend on to initiate? Clearlove is, in the end, the team bully. U’s Ziggs won’t initiate? The end result: U’s gone.To be fair, during EDG’s Clearlove-U era, EDG was frighteningly safe. Safe to the point when you can lose a game to Taiwan after being up 10k gold. Safe to the point where you literally never initiate teamfights despite being up, and end up getting initiated on when Namei gets hooked. Congratulations Namei, you have successfully shouldered the blame. Safe to the point where Clearlove’s first thought after seeing Namei got hooked was “nice, this one’s on Namei, not my fault!”When EDG first acquired Deft and Pawn, Clearlove wasn’t that impressed by Pawn. His sole focus was on Deft, because he understands Deft’s skill makes it much easier for him to perform as a moocher. Recall that when Deft joined EDG, he was widely regarded as the best teamfighting ADC. Clearlove’s thought process is to just bait and wait for the other team to initiate (cause he’s too pussy to start the teamfight himself), and then use his full tank build (constantly farming Wraiths, “ganking” while smiting cannon creep, “helping” with wolves, he can always assure a certain amount of farm for himself). Absorb a round of damage, and then let Deft, the teamfighting ADC god, command the game. That’s his little plan. But then the problems came.After a while with the new EDG roster, Clearlove discovered Deft has mentality issues. How often does Deft cry when he loses? All the time. He’s someone who will randomly TP in place when nervous. Even though Clearlove’s mechanics are bad and he has a pussy mindset, he has a good head, and he can clearly see Deft’s issues. He realizes Deft isn’t clutch enough.But at the same time, he discovered Pawn’s value. Pawn’s always willing to fight, no matter who the opponent is. Faker can bear witness to this with his life. And most importantly, Pawn is willing to start fights! Previously, Clearlove could only wait for opponent’s initiation and then counter-engage (this way, even if they lose it’s not his fault, you can just say: “they had a great initiate!” But when you win, it’s “unbeatable teamfighting, great counter-engage, etc.”) Pawn, who’s willing to initiate with his life, is perfect for Clearlove, because now you don’t have to rely on the other team to engage and you get some control over the tempo of the game. So from this point on, Clearlove stopped duo queuing with Deft and started queuing with Pawn and wait for him to engage in games. Win? 666. Lose? Korean’s fault, not my problem.Who was the one who wanted Deft initially? Clearlove. Clearlove was focused on Deft’s teamfight ADC reputation, and got a buy 1 get 1 free deal with a Pawn-Daddy [T/N: Koreans in LPL who do well/carry are called “dads”] For a period, EDG was unstoppable, and people started talking about EDG’s unbeatable mid-jungle combo. At MSI, vs. SKT, Clearlove proclaimed “I believe Pawn and I can defeat the opposition!”Again, Clearlove is smart. He didn’t say “I will beat Bengi,” but he dragged Pawn in with him.Everyone knows Koro is Clearlove’s apprentice [T/N: Debatable. Word is Koro was “discovered” by Clearlove from a minor team, RS/solo queue and that’s how he got in EDG as a relative unknown when the team was formed] Clearlove taught Koro all he knew in three words: Pussy! Tank! Mooch! He didn’t hold anything back. But unfortunately, Koro didn’t live up to expectations! Fzzf’s opinion of Koro is: When Koro awakens, he will shock the world. Fzzf realized Koro has the heart of a Carry, and isn’t willing to just be a mooch.When did Koro awaken? MSI. It’s fair to say that without Koro’s excellent performance at MSI, EDG would not have been able to win. During MSI, Huni said he didn’t want to play EDG because he didn’t want to lane vs. Koro. MSI was a tank meta, which was perfect for Clearlove. Koro, in addition to learning the best of Clearlove, also has a willingness to fight and stand strong. He was the No. 1 of MSI. His personality, however, also means he could never be a true pussy like Clearlove, which is what led to the eventual dispute.WE, All-Star, EDG. Every single team that Clearlove has been on. In review, whenever they win, Clearlove is not the one to carry. When they lose, Clearlove is also not the one who makes the bulk of the mistakes and the one who has to shoulder the blame.He’s like an invisible man.When they win, you have no idea what he did. Maybe he’ll “playfully” miss a Q, and do an awkward little smile. Everyone thinks: “oh well, they still have a huge advantage, Clearlove was just dicking around. It’s not reflective of underlying mechanics issues. After all, word on the street is Clearlove’s Lee Sin will show you who’s boss in Solo Queue.”When they lose, you have no idea what he did. You can see his teammates get caught, but he will rely on his brilliant game sense and clever pathing to survive. When the game ends, you look at the scoreboard: 0-0-2. Caomei? 3-8-10. Caomei inted, obviously. Top die 8 times? Fucking troll.He’s like an invisible man. It’s possible that after an entire game, you have no idea what he was doing.Sometimes the camera pans to him and you see him farm creeps with impeccable technique. Every single jungle creep on Summoner’s Rift quakes at the name “Clearlove.” Sometimes the camera pans to him and you see him on the way to countergank…or maybe he was just on the way to farm some creeps and just happened to walk past the enemy jungler. His jungle camp refresh timing is beyond godlike.During teamfights, you will see Clearlove on camera in one of two ways: 1. Super slick moves in the clean-up. 2. Cleverly running away.He’s like an invisible man.While talking about how he’s a mooch, let’s take a moment to talk about his mechanics.First and foremost, my personal view his, his mechanics are fine. If you watch Clearlove in solo queue, you will discover he’s a god. Full damage build, flanks, Insecs, Q-Q Ward Hop Kick, repositioning with Flash, etc. Jarvan EQ, Reksai clutch tunnels, etc. Really, he has no problem from a mechanics perspective. Maybe a little slow on reactions compared to some players, but really, he’s a veteran player with the reputation of being a hard worker. He can pretty much do any mechanical play you can think of.But the problem is, this is only in solo queue or in unimportant games. Which is why everyone says Clearlove is a ladder god.Clearlove has a personal Tieba [T/N: like a subreddit. R/TSM, r/Clearlove, etc.] From the surface, Clearlove’s reputation is he is chasing a dream and doesn’t care about his reputation. In reality this is only half right. Clearlove is a very vain person and cares strongly about his reputation. He really does. He will often go to his Tieba and read comments on him. Due to certain incidents [T/N: Long story. I can elaborate later] he just lurks and doesn’t reply anymore, and just pretends he doesn’t come anymore.And you can tell from his interviews, Clearlove really cares about his reputation and legacy. So yes, he works hard, and why he’ll flame his teammates if they don’t practice, and is willing to go head to head with Weixiao. As a team, you can’t get in the way of his dream and his legacy.“I will prove to the world who the best jungler is.”So why is he a god in solo queue but a pussy in tournament? Why will he try to defend his KDA at all cost in losing games? Why is he willing to do the “helping” with wolves? In my opinion this is really a huge blackmark against Clearlove. It was rubbing salt into the wound for Koro.Clearlove is defending his KDA with his life, which is why his stats are usually decent in losing games and exceptional in winning games. He always chooses to take the safe benefit path, and his farm and economy is usually very strong, even if the team collapses.So why is it that someone who constantly has good mechanics in solo queue never has a single standout mechanical moment in tournament? Lovelin, TBQ, these kinds of players all had their moments. Do you really think TBQ is a better mechanical player than Clearlove?When they win, Clearlove gets honor and glory. There’s no disputing that. But when they lose you can’t find any big problems with him, and he knows this too. Every time EDG gets wiped, you can almost guarantee it wasn’t Clearlove’s fault, nor was it caused by his inopportune initiation (again, because he rarely initiates – he can’t risk it). So even when they lose the game, he’s still Clearlove, the most stable and reliable person on the team. Totally able to keep playing another season.Clearlove doesn’t want to leave this stage. Have you ever heard Clearlove say he wants to retire? Never. He’s terrified people will think he’s not good enough anymore, and he’s terrified of getting to a point where he is so bad in game that he has to retire. He still hasn’t won Worlds yet. To be honest, he’s just a very insecure person, which is why he’s so desperate for a Worlds trophy to prove he’s good.It’s a mentality issue. Clearlove is too vain, and cares too much what people think about him. He wants to win too much, which is why he’s a pussy. He is afraid to be the one to take responsibility for a loss, nor does he want to. He even gave up the Captain position to Koro. Responsibiilty? The word is too heavy for Clearlove, he won’t bear it.A detail you guys should pay attention to: Whenever EDG gets aced, Clearlove never has the worst expression (because it’s not his fault), but whenever he gets caught, he really has a terrible expression (because it’s undeniably his fault).Let’s continue discussing why he’s a mooch.For a LoL player, even a random solo queue player, one question: How do you prove you’re good even if you’re not that great? Or, to give a concrete example: You’re a Plat player dropped in a Challenger game. How do you play???(Clearlove is honestly OK. Even though his reaction isn’t great his mechanics are fine, but his mentality dictates his lackluster performances in big tournament matches. A Lee Sin who doesn’t initiate is useless. An Elise that’s afraid to dive towers is useless. Which is why everyone says Clearlove isn’t great at these two champions – honestly he’s fine with them in solo queue, but they don’t fit with his self-determined “role” as a mooch. Know that initiating and diving can both lead to disaster and responsibility! Which is why Clearlake hardly ever ganks – if you get counterganked and lose, it’s all the jungler’s fault!)Clearlove is smart, but he’s not confident. He’s afraid his mechanics aren’t good enough, combined with the avoid responsibility mentality. It means during games, he is like a Plat player playing in a Challenger game. Now is not the time to compare mechanics, so he chooses to play “intelligently.”Stay close to your carry, stay far away from your feeders. Very simple: with your carry, an Assist counts towards your KDA to. With your feeder? Heh…Let’s put it this way: when U was around, have you ever seen Clearlove gank mid? Back then, Namei was universally recognized as a top 3 ADC in China. Clearlove identified him as the carry, the Challenger booster, so you have to protect him. Which is why EDG plays bot-oriented.When Deft showed up, his reputation was even better than Namei. Number 1 teamfighting ADC, Best AD Korea, etc., and Clearlove was the one who suggested EDG management get Deft in the first place. OK, great, keep camping bot.And then, when Clearlove discovers Deft’s mindset isn’t great but Pawn is the true 666 fighting carry, “OK Bot just play safe, we need to play Mid-Jungle combos!”We come to S6, when Koro got benched due to contract/salary disputes. AmazingJ gets put in. Everyone knows it’s a Top-oriented meta. I know it, you know, it, Clearlove and Aaron must’ve known it too.But the problem is Clearlove clearly doesn’t trust AJ. Even though it’s a Top carry meta, Pawn and Deft are his “carries.” So in this situation, should he protect the Master-level AmazingJ, or should he choose the Mid-Bot Challenger-tier Pawn and Deft?OK, back to Clearlove’s Plat-in-Challenger analysis. We discussed the first aspect: – stay close to carries, abandon feeders.In low elo, you compare kills. Whoever has more kills is the better player.In high elo, whoever has the flashiest mechanics is the better player. Riven mechanics 666.What about in Challenger? Show off your Insec, and Insec a Garen into your team?No, in Challenger, you show off your statistics. Your KDA. You don’t need absurd flashy plays, you want “game sense” and “game knowledge.” What is game sense? Game sense is, “you don’t even know what I did but I won. And my KDA was good to boot, you don’t even understand what I did.” What’s the scariest thing? The unknown. You don’t even know how he beat you, how do you even go about countering it?Everyone reflexively checks the scoreboard at the end of the game. Clearlove – such good KDA, you lost even when he’s on your team? Just how noob are you?Lastly, we must admit, Clearlove’s intelligence really saved him. Every team he’s on ends up with players flamed to retirement. But not him. Just look:But Clearlove. Does Clearlove have any problems? Naaaah. He has dreams. He’s a hard worker. Teamfight oriented Jungler. Stable performance, good at counterinitiating.When you lose it can’t possibly be his fault. Awooo...

Carnivorous Sheep Profile Joined November 2008 Baa? 6740 Posts October 18 2016 21:25 GMT #2 This isn't intended to be a flame post, but I figured it was too amusing not to share. Moderator Baa!

Torchise Profile Joined May 2012 Canada 177 Posts October 18 2016 22:42 GMT #4 Interesting post/theory. But being a pussy/mooch doesn't really explain why he messed up some Lee Sin R -> Q (as seen in the gifs) and the post does commend him for being a good mechanical player (in solo queue, at least). It seems to imply that it might be because he is affected by his Tieba and chokes on stage, or something like that?



Also, took me some time to figure out what the twist was since the date looked the same as today at first glance. The baylife, it burns!

cLutZ Profile Joined November 2010 United States 7571 Posts October 19 2016 00:01 GMT #5



I cannot believe this exists. Its like I have a Chinese twin out there. One smarter than me because this is the most beautiful prose of the 21st century: Every single jungle creep on Summoner’s Rift quakes at the name “Clearlove.” Freeeeeeedom

Zess Profile Joined July 2012 Adun Toridas! 5029 Posts October 19 2016 02:17 GMT #6 On October 19 2016 07:42 Torchise wrote:

Interesting post/theory. But being a pussy/mooch doesn't really explain why he messed up some Lee Sin R -> Q (as seen in the gifs) and the post does commend him for being a good mechanical player (in solo queue, at least). It seems to imply that it might be because he is affected by his Tieba and chokes on stage, or something like that?



He's trying to hard to win and psychs himself out because he doesn't want to look bad and is mad greedy with his skills and then uses them super suboptimally.



He just wants to be boosted but he's forced onto champions that have to take the initiative so I assume the original author would say something like "his wuss nature means that even though he is mechanically good he just flubs it up because he has spent so many years perfecting the nature of mooching that on stage he can't make flashy plays" He's trying to hard to win and psychs himself out because he doesn't want to look bad and is mad greedy with his skills and then uses them super suboptimally.He just wants to be boosted but he's forced onto champions that have to take the initiative so I assume the original author would say something like "his wuss nature means that even though he is mechanically good he just flubs it up because he has spent so many years perfecting the nature of mooching that on stage he can't make flashy plays" Staff @TL_Zess

| (• ◡•)|八 (❍ᴥ❍ʋ)

Letmelose Profile Joined September 2006 Korea (South) 933 Posts Last Edited: 2016-10-19 02:58:59 October 19 2016 02:54 GMT #7 I mean, there's no smoke without fire right? ClearLove is heavily respected in Korea for his excellent performance in solo-que, so he is one of the foreign players that are talked about frequently. KangQui (ex-professional turned personality/commentato/streamer) once said that ClearLove is uncanny in his ability to empowering the lanes that are ahead and is one of the best junglers in the world in that respect, but lacks the ability to force plays when his lanes aren't doing so well.



He's just a player of extreme strengths and extreme weaknesses, and at the highest levels of play, I think it's not surprising that his weaknesses are being exposed. However, being a mooch isn't all that bad. Hell, Bengi made a legacy out of being a world class mooch. It's better to be an accomplished, well respected mooch like ClearLove than it is to be "the carry of the team" and get no where, and considering the moves he made in his career, and the domestic success he had, ClearLove knows exactly which kind of players he needs to mooch off from, and that is a skill in itself.

Letmelose Profile Joined September 2006 Korea (South) 933 Posts Last Edited: 2016-10-19 03:20:43 October 19 2016 02:58 GMT #8 I think knowing your place, and playing to your strengths is an ability that is underrated by most. I would have chosen Looper 1000 times out of a 1000 over Flame (one of the most over-rated top laners in history) under the context that it is Samsung White's top position they get to fill. Flame, even if we assume didn't give up practice and ultimately his relevance as a world class player after failing gain success time after time, would have made the team worse. ClearLove has served his role, and his found teams where he could be of use throughout his entire career, and it's not as if the Chinese jungling talent was so deep that he was somehow preventing his teammates from winning the World Championship or anything like that. Who knows? If he was born Korean, maybe he would have domestic and international success (in addition to his IPL5, and MSI victory). Bengi sure found it despite his limitations by playing to his strengths.



The worst thing is a player who doesn't have any self awareness, and doesn't realize that any strengths he has that isn't being converted into tangible success may as well not exist, then warping the reality of his situation to justify why his strengths being nullified, or weaknesses being exposed was not the reason why they lost, and indulging in his ego rather than maximizing his chances of actually winning. I don't have any patience for players like that, and I think while ClearLove has had one of the most disgustingly bad performances from a legendary player, I think he still deserves his place in history.

cLutZ Profile Joined November 2010 United States 7571 Posts October 19 2016 05:19 GMT #9 On October 19 2016 11:54 Letmelose wrote:

He's just a player of extreme strengths and extreme weaknesses, and at the highest levels of play, I think it's not surprising that his weaknesses are being exposed. However, being a mooch isn't all that bad. Hell, Bengi made a legacy out of being a world class mooch. It's better to be an accomplished, well respected mooch like ClearLove than it is to be "the carry of the team" and get no where, and considering the moves he made in his career, and the domestic success he had, ClearLove knows exactly which kind of players he needs to mooch off from, and that is a skill in itself.



I don't think you understand what a "mooch" is in this context. Bengi is an anti-mooch where he sacrifices himself to make sure his lanes are enabled.



I don't think you understand what a "mooch" is in this context. Bengi is an anti-mooch where he sacrifices himself to make sure his lanes are enabled. On October 19 2016 11:58 Letmelose wrote:

I think knowing your place, and playing to your strengths is an ability that is underrated by most. I would have chosen Looper 1000 times out of a 1000 over Flame (one of the most over-rated top laners in history) under the context that it is Samsung White's top position they get to fill. Flame, even if we assume didn't give up practice and ultimately his relevance as a world class player after failing gain success time after time, would have made the team worse. ClearLove has served his role, and his found teams where he could be of use throughout his entire career, and it's not as if the Chinese jungling talent was so deep that he was somehow preventing his teammates from winning the World Championship or anything like that. Who knows? If he was born Korean, maybe he would have domestic and international success (in addition to his IPL5, and MSI victory). Bengi sure found it despite his limitations by playing to his strengths.



One of the major issues is that Clearlove is not lauded for "playing to his strengths" like Bengi is, even though he is the (IMO weaker) side of the same coin (sacrificing lanes for his own power). Instead he was lauded for his strengths only (which he is good at secondary engage, and also at flashing for CC in ganks), and people ignored that he left lanes to die, and ranked him as the MFing #1 jungler in the world, not just once multiple times people (particularly Chinese viewers) have said it. People ignore that playing against Clearlove means most of the enemy laners and junglers know they are playing against a Meteos-like amount of lane pressure.



One of the major issues is that Clearlove is not lauded for "playing to his strengths" like Bengi is, even though he is the (IMO weaker) side of the same coin (sacrificing lanes for his own power). Instead he was lauded for his strengths only (which he is good at secondary engage, and also at flashing for CC in ganks), and people ignored that he left lanes to die, and ranked him as the MFing #1 jungler in the world, not just once multiple times people (particularly Chinese viewers) have said it. People ignore that playing against Clearlove means most of the enemy laners and junglers know they are playing against a Meteos-like amount of lane pressure. On October 19 2016 11:58 Letmelose wrote:

ClearLove has had one of the most disgustingly bad performances from a legendary player, I think he still deserves his place in history.

He needs the correct place in history. Which is as a jungler who was great at playing the role he wanted to play, but never understood that that was the suboptimal way to play the jungle for 90% of the time he was there. He needs the correct place in history. Which is as a jungler who was great at playing the role he wanted to play, but never understood that that was the suboptimal way to play the jungle for 90% of the time he was there. Freeeeeeedom

Letmelose Profile Joined September 2006 Korea (South) 933 Posts Last Edited: 2016-10-19 07:04:00 October 19 2016 06:56 GMT #10 On October 19 2016 14:19 cLutZ wrote:

Show nested quote +

On October 19 2016 11:54 Letmelose wrote:

He's just a player of extreme strengths and extreme weaknesses, and at the highest levels of play, I think it's not surprising that his weaknesses are being exposed. However, being a mooch isn't all that bad. Hell, Bengi made a legacy out of being a world class mooch. It's better to be an accomplished, well respected mooch like ClearLove than it is to be "the carry of the team" and get no where, and considering the moves he made in his career, and the domestic success he had, ClearLove knows exactly which kind of players he needs to mooch off from, and that is a skill in itself.



I don't think you understand what a "mooch" is in this context. Bengi is an anti-mooch where he sacrifices himself to make sure his lanes are enabled.



Show nested quote +

On October 19 2016 11:58 Letmelose wrote:

I think knowing your place, and playing to your strengths is an ability that is underrated by most. I would have chosen Looper 1000 times out of a 1000 over Flame (one of the most over-rated top laners in history) under the context that it is Samsung White's top position they get to fill. Flame, even if we assume didn't give up practice and ultimately his relevance as a world class player after failing gain success time after time, would have made the team worse. ClearLove has served his role, and his found teams where he could be of use throughout his entire career, and it's not as if the Chinese jungling talent was so deep that he was somehow preventing his teammates from winning the World Championship or anything like that. Who knows? If he was born Korean, maybe he would have domestic and international success (in addition to his IPL5, and MSI victory). Bengi sure found it despite his limitations by playing to his strengths.



One of the major issues is that Clearlove is not lauded for "playing to his strengths" like Bengi is, even though he is the (IMO weaker) side of the same coin (sacrificing lanes for his own power). Instead he was lauded for his strengths only (which he is good at secondary engage, and also at flashing for CC in ganks), and people ignored that he left lanes to die, and ranked him as the MFing #1 jungler in the world, not just once multiple times people (particularly Chinese viewers) have said it. People ignore that playing against Clearlove means most of the enemy laners and junglers know they are playing against a Meteos-like amount of lane pressure.



Show nested quote +

On October 19 2016 11:58 Letmelose wrote:

ClearLove has had one of the most disgustingly bad performances from a legendary player, I think he still deserves his place in history.

He needs the correct place in history. Which is as a jungler who was great at playing the role he wanted to play, but never understood that that was the suboptimal way to play the jungle for 90% of the time he was there. I don't think you understand what a "mooch" is in this context. Bengi is an anti-mooch where he sacrifices himself to make sure his lanes are enabled.One of the major issues is that Clearlove is not lauded for "playing to his strengths" like Bengi is, even though he is the (IMO weaker) side of the same coin (sacrificing lanes for his own power). Instead he was lauded for his strengths only (which he is good at secondary engage, and also at flashing for CC in ganks), and people ignored that he left lanes to die, and ranked him as the MFing #1 jungler in the world, not just once multiple times people (particularly Chinese viewers) have said it. People ignore that playing against Clearlove means most of the enemy laners and junglers know they are playing against a Meteos-like amount of lane pressure.He needs the correct place in history. Which is as a jungler who was great at playing the role he wanted to play, but never understood that that was the suboptimal way to play the jungle for 90% of the time he was there.



I regard Bengi is a free loader of sorts who can maximize his potential when his laners are dominant, but lives and dies by the performance of his laners (which is true to all junglers, but applies more so to Bengi in particular). It's irrelevant by which methods they mooched, but they were never the true carries of their teams, and they never attempted to be and went about their own ways to gain success. Due to their limitations, they got exposed if the meta-game, or the circumstances of the team were not suitable for their method of playing. However, sometimes, having a world class mooch is sometimes the best thing that can complement the best carries in the world.



I never regarded ClearLove as the best jungler in the world, but then again, I personally prefered DanDy or KaKao over Bengi (widely regarded as the best jungler in the world in the past). Faker alone would shift the balance so much, and perhaps you have heard about the time Faker would totally fuck up the balance of the try-out scrims when SK Telecom T1 #2 was recruiting players, despite getting all three bans targeted towards him, to the extent that it would be impossible to tell which player was performing well due to Faker's team always winning no matter which composition of candidates they would create, so in the end they just secured the spot on the team and left him out of the try-out scrims. It's kind of a cheat you know? Bengi's legacy as being regarded as the best jungler in the world at numerous points throughout the years would never have happened without Faker in my opinion, but at the same time, maybe he filled in that role better than any other jungler would have. I personally think DanDy would have done fine with Faker also. And Bengi definitely never had it in him to have a carry performance like KaKao did to lead KT Rolster Arrows to victory in Season 5. However, within the context of SK Telecom T1 at the time, I don't particularly mind people saying Bengi was the best jungler in the world. Sometimes people associate the success of a player's team depending on how well they function within it, and extrapolate that into their worth as a player. Considering this is a team game, it's hard to always fault that way of thought.



Back to ClearLove, just because we've seen the obvious flaws in his game, doesn't mean he was sub-optimal as a layer. He was sub-optimal at the highest level of competition, perhaps, but you don't get to win as many titles as he did if he was just a detriment to his team. The narrative of him being the best jungler in the world is weird, but we've seen stranger opinions come out of biased journalists and people biased for their region of choice. I'm fine with people judging him through the context of the sheer domestic success in a region that has been at times been regarded as the second strongest region. Yes he has very specific conditions for which he needs to play well, but he has the respect of many junglers in Korea, and to be honest, no players are truly free from their limitations and the need for the circumstances and meta-game to suit their strengths. ClearLove just had his exposed more so than most, because he was able to remain relevant at the highest level for such a long time due to his strengths and self-awareness, but at the same time, have deficiencies that would make him an inflexible player.



I'm not sure exactly how to rate ClearLove due to my lack of understanding of the Chinese domestic scene, but it's kind of unfair of people to solely judge him off his bad World Championship performances. Yes my views as a viewer more familiar with the Korean scene may be biased due to respect he gained here, but one thing I find is that rarely do we know the full picture, and we are so blind towards the faults of players we are familiar with due to all the context we can provide as to why they failed, but are so quick to judge "over-rated" players such as ClearLove from the segmented viewing experience we have of him. One terrible performance this year, and he suddenly becomes a cuck who plagued his team with his KDA whoring tendencies for the entirety of his career. You don't get the praise of some of the most prideful junglers in Korea without being good. You also don't fail to leave a positive impression multiple times at the World Championship without having some kind of deficiency. He's a great player, and the weight of the criticism has more to do with the role he had as one of the faces of the entire Chinese scene, than him being a player of Meteos' calibre. Under this much scrutiny, you can make a lot of players look much worse than they really are. I regard Bengi is a free loader of sorts who can maximize his potential when his laners are dominant, but lives and dies by the performance of his laners (which is true to all junglers, but applies more so to Bengi in particular). It's irrelevant by which methods they mooched, but they were never the true carries of their teams, and they never attempted to be and went about their own ways to gain success. Due to their limitations, they got exposed if the meta-game, or the circumstances of the team were not suitable for their method of playing. However, sometimes, having a world class mooch is sometimes the best thing that can complement the best carries in the world.I never regarded ClearLove as the best jungler in the world, but then again, I personally prefered DanDy or KaKao over Bengi (widely regarded as the best jungler in the world in the past). Faker alone would shift the balance so much, and perhaps you have heard about the time Faker would totally fuck up the balance of the try-out scrims when SK Telecom T1 #2 was recruiting players, despite getting all three bans targeted towards him, to the extent that it would be impossible to tell which player was performing well due to Faker's team always winning no matter which composition of candidates they would create, so in the end they just secured the spot on the team and left him out of the try-out scrims. It's kind of a cheat you know? Bengi's legacy as being regarded as the best jungler in the world at numerous points throughout the years would never have happened without Faker in my opinion, but at the same time, maybe he filled in that role better than any other jungler would have. I personally think DanDy would have done fine with Faker also. And Bengi definitely never had it in him to have a carry performance like KaKao did to lead KT Rolster Arrows to victory in Season 5. However, within the context of SK Telecom T1 at the time, I don't particularly mind people saying Bengi was the best jungler in the world. Sometimes people associate the success of a player's team depending on how well they function within it, and extrapolate that into their worth as a player. Considering this is a team game, it's hard to always fault that way of thought.Back to ClearLove, just because we've seen the obvious flaws in his game, doesn't mean he was sub-optimal as a layer. He was sub-optimal at the highest level of competition, perhaps, but you don't get to win as many titles as he did if he was just a detriment to his team. The narrative of him being the best jungler in the world is weird, but we've seen stranger opinions come out of biased journalists and people biased for their region of choice. I'm fine with people judging him through the context of the sheer domestic success in a region that has been at times been regarded as the second strongest region. Yes he has very specific conditions for which he needs to play well, but he has the respect of many junglers in Korea, and to be honest, no players are truly free from their limitations and the need for the circumstances and meta-game to suit their strengths. ClearLove just had his exposed more so than most, because he was able to remain relevant at the highest level for such a long time due to his strengths and self-awareness, but at the same time, have deficiencies that would make him an inflexible player.I'm not sure exactly how to rate ClearLove due to my lack of understanding of the Chinese domestic scene, but it's kind of unfair of people to solely judge him off his bad World Championship performances. Yes my views as a viewer more familiar with the Korean scene may be biased due to respect he gained here, but one thing I find is that rarely do we know the full picture, and we are so blind towards the faults of players we are familiar with due to all the context we can provide as to why they failed, but are so quick to judge "over-rated" players such as ClearLove from the segmented viewing experience we have of him. One terrible performance this year, and he suddenly becomes a cuck who plagued his team with his KDA whoring tendencies for the entirety of his career. You don't get the praise of some of the most prideful junglers in Korea without being good. You also don't fail to leave a positive impression multiple times at the World Championship without having some kind of deficiency. He's a great player, and the weight of the criticism has more to do with the role he had as one of the faces of the entire Chinese scene, than him being a player of Meteos' calibre. Under this much scrutiny, you can makeof players look much worse than they really are.

MaTRiX[SiN] Profile Joined September 2003 Sweden 4 Posts October 19 2016 11:26 GMT #11 A big difference between Bengi and Clearlove is that when Bengi's lanes are doing poorly he looks terrible and proceeds to get an insane amount of blame. Bengi has been considered the best jungler in the world and then so bad that he should retire all while performing at exactly the same level. Clearlove on the other hand is usually not considered the reason his team does poorly but then when his team is winning he still gets far too much credit. aka StormtoSS

cLutZ Profile Joined November 2010 United States 7571 Posts Last Edited: 2016-10-19 20:48:53 October 19 2016 20:48 GMT #13 On October 19 2016 15:56 Letmelose wrote:



I regard Bengi is a free loader of sorts who can maximize his potential when his laners are dominant, but lives and dies by the performance of his laners (which is true to all junglers, but applies more so to Bengi in particular). It's irrelevant by which methods they mooched, but they were never the true carries of their teams, and they never attempted to be and went about their own ways to gain success. Due to their limitations, they got exposed if the meta-game, or the circumstances of the team were not suitable for their method of playing. However, sometimes, having a world class mooch is sometimes the best thing that can complement the best carries in the world.



That is the job of the competitive jungler. "Carry" Junglers like Peanut now and Dandy before do this by eliminating the enemy jungler as a threat to their lanes. They take that jungler's farm, ensure he can only be on one side of the map, etc. Bengi and vision-oriented junglers do the same thing, but with wards instead of their own body. They are both trying to accomplish the same goal, but one (the carry jungler) is simply a stronger or more confident player so they accomplish 3 things (Vision of enemy jungler, farming, shut down enemy jungler) instead of just two (Vision + farming).



That is the job of the competitive jungler. "Carry" Junglers like Peanut now and Dandy before do this by eliminating the enemy jungler as a threat to their lanes. They take that jungler's farm, ensure he can only be on one side of the map, etc. Bengi and vision-oriented junglers do the same thing, but with wards instead of their own body. They are both trying to accomplish the same goal, but one (the carry jungler) is simply a stronger or more confident player so they accomplish 3 things (Vision of enemy jungler, farming, shut down enemy jungler) instead of just two (Vision + farming). On October 19 2016 15:56 Letmelose wrote:

I never regarded ClearLove as the best jungler in the world, but then again, I personally prefered DanDy or KaKao over Bengi (widely regarded as the best jungler in the world in the past). Faker alone would shift the balance so much, and perhaps you have heard about the time Faker would totally fuck up the balance of the try-out scrims when SK Telecom T1 #2 was recruiting players, despite getting all three bans targeted towards him, to the extent that it would be impossible to tell which player was performing well due to Faker's team always winning no matter which composition of candidates they would create, so in the end they just secured the spot on the team and left him out of the try-out scrims. It's kind of a cheat you know? Bengi's legacy as being regarded as the best jungler in the world at numerous points throughout the years would never have happened without Faker in my opinion, but at the same time, maybe he filled in that role better than any other jungler would have. I personally think DanDy would have done fine with Faker also. And Bengi definitely never had it in him to have a carry performance like KaKao did to lead KT Rolster Arrows to victory in Season 5. However, within the context of SK Telecom T1 at the time, I don't particularly mind people saying Bengi was the best jungler in the world. Sometimes people associate the success of a player's team depending on how well they function within it, and extrapolate that into their worth as a player. Considering this is a team game, it's hard to always fault that way of thought.

Very few people ever thought Bengi was #1 in the world. Those that did are like the people who said Hauntzer was the best toplaner in NA because TSM was winning. I'll agree that Clearlove has gotten some of that same halo effect due to EDG's domestic success, but those kinds of sober analysis were missing pre S4, S5, and S6 worlds so there must be something else about Clearlove that tricks people. Which goes back to the OP.



Very few people ever thought Bengi was #1 in the world. Those that did are like the people who said Hauntzer was the best toplaner in NA because TSM was winning. I'll agree that Clearlove has gotten some of that same halo effect due to EDG's domestic success, but those kinds of sober analysis were missing pre S4, S5, and S6 worlds so there must be something else about Clearlove that tricks people. Which goes back to the OP. On October 19 2016 15:56 Letmelose wrote:

Back to ClearLove, just because we've seen the obvious flaws in his game, doesn't mean he was sub-optimal as a layer. He was sub-optimal at the highest level of competition, perhaps, but you don't get to win as many titles as he did if he was just a detriment to his team. The narrative of him being the best jungler in the world is weird, but we've seen stranger opinions come out of biased journalists and people biased for their region of choice. I'm fine with people judging him through the context of the sheer domestic success in a region that has been at times been regarded as the second strongest region. Yes he has very specific conditions for which he needs to play well, but he has the respect of many junglers in Korea, and to be honest, no players are truly free from their limitations and the need for the circumstances and meta-game to suit their strengths. ClearLove just had his exposed more so than most, because he was able to remain relevant at the highest level for such a long time due to his strengths and self-awareness, but at the same time, have deficiencies that would make him an inflexible player.



That's kind of the point, that some of his flaws are exactly what make him suboptimal while also tricking the mind into thinking he's not. We had this same discussion following S5 worlds, but people forgot the lessons. That is the problem: consistent retelling of his story to make him into something he is not.



That's kind of the point, that some of his flaws are exactly what make him suboptimal while also tricking the mind into thinking he's not. We had this same discussion following S5 worlds, but people forgot the lessons. That is the problem: consistent retelling of his story to make him into something he is not. On October 19 2016 15:56 Letmelose wrote:

I'm not sure exactly how to rate ClearLove due to my lack of understanding of the Chinese domestic scene, but it's kind of unfair of people to solely judge him off his bad World Championship performances. Yes my views as a viewer more familiar with the Korean scene may be biased due to respect he gained here, but one thing I find is that rarely do we know the full picture, and we are so blind towards the faults of players we are familiar with due to all the context we can provide as to why they failed, but are so quick to judge "over-rated" players such as ClearLove from the segmented viewing experience we have of him. One terrible performance this year, and he suddenly becomes a cuck who plagued his team with his KDA whoring tendencies for the entirety of his career. You don't get the praise of some of the most prideful junglers in Korea without being good. You also don't fail to leave a positive impression multiple times at the World Championship without having some kind of deficiency. He's a great player, and the weight of the criticism has more to do with the role he had as one of the faces of the entire Chinese scene, than him being a player of Meteos' calibre. Under this much scrutiny, you can make a lot of players look much worse than they really are.

That is somewhat fair, but to be honest the OP's article reflects what you see in China if you watch the league from a Korean-viewer perspective. Its why people get salty about sandbagging memes as well. That is somewhat fair, but to be honest the OP's article reflects what you see in China if you watch the league from a Korean-viewer perspective. Its why people get salty about sandbagging memes as well. Freeeeeeedom