Matt Jones’ interview is literally the first time I’ve ever seen an interviewer pin a legislator down on air about the agenda behind “right to work” laws: Less pay, less benefits.

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Imagine if 60 Minutes did a segment like this instead of their commercials for Amazon.

Here’s a transcript of my favorite part of the interview:

Host (Matt Jones): The last 5 states, in that particular state, not compared to other states, in that particular state, all 5 states, the average wage has gone down within the next 5 years. All 5 states. It’s understandable, the reason the business community wants it is because the wages will go down, right? Speaker Hoover: No. You want it so you can attract jobs and create jobs. Host: But why is it attracting jobs? Because the wages are lower, right? Speaker Hoover: But I don’t think the wages for a particular job are going down. Maybe when a company comes in the wages are maybe less than what had been earlier. Host: That’s a fair point. But let’s be real. The reason the Koch Brothers and the Chamber of Commerce want Right to Work is because they know it will make jobs available in that state that will cost less than jobs that will potentially have unions, right? Speaker Hoover: But … if you create jobs, you are expanding your tax base, right.

Jones goes on to ask Hoover how he can justify limiting union political contributions when they’re now voluntary (after right to work).

Host: Are you anti-union? Speaker Hoover: No. Not at all. Host: So let me ask you this. If that’s the case, why ban union donations to political groups? If it’s the case that now people don’t have to pay dues … then why can’t the dues they pay be used for politics?



Speaker Hoover: Because that employee should have that choice … Host: They will. They don’t have to pay the dues. You all have made it so they don’t have to pay dues now. So for the ones who want to pay dues, why can’t they be used for politics? Speaker Hoover: They can pay dues. Host: Then why can’t they be used for politics? Why can’t those dues be used for politics?



Speaker Hoover: Well … Host: I think you’re having it both ways here. Speaker Hoover: I see what you’re saying. That is a valid argument.

Let’s be honest. The real reason for these bills is:

Republicans like Jeff Hoover believe that the only way to create jobs is to lower wages and benefits They’re anti-union because unions donate mostly to the Democratic Party (see #1).

Kudos to host Matt Jones for an amazing interview. Many people think of Kentucky as a flyover state, but when was the last time you saw an interviewer in New York or L.A. interview a legislator like Jones did?

If you liked the interview, thank Matt Jones and Hey Kentucky! We need more media asking the tough questions.

David Akadjian is the author of The Little Book of Revolution: A Distributive Strategy for Democracy (now available as an ebook).