sgfccchamber





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Last seen: 4 years, 7 months StrangerLast seen: 4 years, 7 months UPDATED - In Fruiting - Monotub Clone Grow Log - Dual Tub Grow to Test Method for Increased Yield 3

#22755065 - 01/09/16 01:12 AM (4 years, 8 months ago) Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply



A number of years ago I posted this thread: Slatting Tek - A Truly New & Innovative TEKnique for Higher Yields & Better Pinsets



The idea was increasing surface area without taking up additional (and valuable) space where you keep your fruiting chamber(s) while simultaneously making that additional surface area an ideal microclimate for pins to form.



This is not that



However, this idea was spurred by that concept. I've done this (what I'm about to lay out) a number of times with great success, but wanted to get it posted while giving people something cool to look at/read.



This ignores the concept/goal of providing an ideal microclimate and focuses solely on increasing surface area.



I realize that a clone is not a true isolate, as a clone can contain many strains, so this isn't an entirely "fair"/"accurate" experiment, but I'm looking to play with a new clone and figured why not. I cloned directly from the center of a mushroom stipe to grain, then used that grain master to inoculate my other jars (grain to grain). Here is the spawn:





































So here is the concept



Shaping the surface of the substrate like an accordion...like this:

/\/\/\/\/\ - without taking the low point of each "triangle" to the bottom of the substrate (thereby keeping the substrate as one whole piece instead of sectioning it off)...like this:





















































For this test, everything in each of the two tubs is identical (spawn ratio, amount of substrate used, amount of water used to bring to field capacity, ratio of substrate ingredients, tub dimensions...literally everything except the surface of the substrate and how it's "shaped" is identical



So here's the photos/steps:



Step 1: Get my recipe together.



(the steps to follow were all done two times seperately; mixing it, pasteurizing it, etc. However, all things were identical [ingredient volumes, water used to hydrate it, spawn, etc]).



Step 2: Mix enough substrate together for two identical tubs:

Step 2.1:





































Step 2.2 (ingredients mixed dry):

















































Step 2.3 (hydrate the mix by dissolving the gypsum in water and mixing that water with the substrate. In total 2.5 quart jars of water were used in each tub):

















































Step 3: Pasteurize the substrate

Step 3.1 (put substrate in an oven safe turkey bag):

















































Step 3.2 (put bag of substrate in pot with bricks on top and thermometer in center of the substrate mix, fill pot with water and bring to boil until the center of the substrate reaches 130F, turn off heat and start timer when temp reaches 140F and leave undisturbed for an hour and thirty minutes [temp must remain between 140F & 160F for 90 minutes]):

















































Step 4: Prepare the tub

Step 4.1 (line the tub with a clear liner):





































Step 4.2 (dump the substrate and the spawn in the tub and mix thoroughly):





































This is where things for one tub change from the other...how the surface of the substrate is "shaped" (one will be level, the other like an "accordion"). Up until here, everything in each tub and everything about each tub is identical.



Tub 1: totally level surface:





































Tub 2: accordion shaped surface:





































(note the excess clear liner has been trimmed away)



Both finished tubs, being put away for the next 10 days or so until fruiting!





































Now each tub is 21.5" x 15" which means the tub with the level surface has an available fruiting area of: 322.5 square inches.



Each "slope" you see in the accordion tub is roughly 3.5" from peak to trough meaning the "length" has been transformed to 28" long. It's still 15" wide, so the surface area is now 420 square inches. That's an increase of 33% additional surface area in the same exact sized tub.



Why not make two tubs with the substrate split between them you ask?



You might be asking yourself, "why wouldn't you just have taken the substrate used for one tub and split it into two tubs to double the surface area?". Well, there are a number of reasons.



First off is I've just increased my surface area without taking up any additional space (like what a second tub would take up).



Second, I get the benefits a "thick" substrate offers with regard to easily maintaining a nice environment within the tub (humidity specifically). If I had two tubs, the same amount of water I used in one tub would be split between the two. So instead of 2.5qts of water in one tub, I'd have 1.25qts in each tub. That 1.25qts has to supply the mushrooms with enough water to grow AND keep the tub humid as it evaporates from the substrate. Well now, I have 2.5qts of water used in the substrate to provide the mushrooms with enough water to grow and keep the tub humid.





Will update this thread as it progresses.



=============================== === Update 1 - 2nd Day of Colonization ================= ====================



















































=============================== ================================= ========================









=============================== === Update 2 - 4th Day of Colonization ================= ====================



















































=============================== ================================= ========================







=============================== === Update 3 - 6th Day of Colonization ================= ====================



















































=============================== ================================= ========================





=============================== === Fruiting Update - 1st Day in Fruiting Conditions (pre & post application of sprinkled on verm layer) ======================= ==============



















































=============================== ================================= ========================

However, this idea was spurred by that concept. I've done this (what I'm about to lay out) a number of times with great success, but wanted to get it posted while giving people something cool to look at/read.I realize that a clone is not a true isolate, as a clone can contain many strains, so this isn't an entirely "fair"/"accurate" experiment, but I'm looking to play with a new clone and figured why not. I cloned directly from the center of a mushroom stipe to grain, then used that grain master to inoculate my other jars (grain to grain). Here is the spawn:Shaping the surface of the substrate like an accordion...like this:/\/\/\/\/\ - without taking the low point of each "triangle" to the bottom of the substrate (thereby keeping the substrate as one whole piece instead of sectioning it off)...like this:So here's the photos/steps:Step 1: Get my recipe together. Here are the details of my substrate mix (ratios & ingredients), tub dimensions, spawn ratio, etc. (this is the URL to the Shroomery thread about the Substrate Calculator (the steps to follow were all done two times seperately; mixing it, pasteurizing it, etc. However, all things were identical [ingredient volumes, water used to hydrate it, spawn, etc]).Step 2: Mix enough substrate together for two identical tubs:Step 2.1:Step 2.2 (ingredients mixed dry):Step 2.3 (hydrate the mix by dissolving the gypsum in water and mixing that water with the substrate. In total 2.5 quart jars of water were used in each tub):Step 3: Pasteurize the substrateStep 3.1 (put substrate in an oven safe turkey bag):Step 3.2 (put bag of substrate in pot with bricks on top and thermometer in center of the substrate mix, fill pot with water and bring to boil until the center of the substrate reaches 130F, turn off heat and start timer when temp reaches 140F and leave undisturbed for an hour and thirty minutes [temp must remain between 140F & 160F for 90 minutes]):Step 4: Prepare the tubStep 4.1 (line the tub with a clear liner):Step 4.2 (dump the substrate and the spawn in the tub and mix thoroughly):Tub 1: totally level surface:Tub 2: accordion shaped surface:(note the excess clear liner has been trimmed away)Now each tub is 21.5" x 15" which means the tub with the level surface has an available fruiting area of: 322.5 square inches.Each "slope" you see in the accordion tub is roughly 3.5" from peak to trough meaning the "length" has been transformed to 28" long. It's still 15" wide, so the surface area is now 420 square inches. That's an increase of 33% additional surface area in the same exact sized tub.You might be asking yourself, "why wouldn't you just have taken the substrate used for one tub and split it into two tubs to double the surface area?". Well, there are a number of reasons.Will update this thread as it progresses.



Edited by sgfccchamber (01/21/16 11:32 AM)



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Machiavelliavore









Registered: 12/08/14

Posts: 3,038

Loc: The Sporetorn St ates

Last seen: 2 months, 3 days Vermiculite HaterRegistered: 12/08/14Loc: The Sporetorn St Re: Grow Log - Using a Clone in Two Separate Tubs to Test Effects of Increased Surface Area on Yields [Re: sgfccchamber]

#22755115 - 01/09/16 01:39 AM (4 years, 8 months ago) Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply



I'll be interested to see your results. Two things occur to me:



-This may reduce the areas with an ideal microclimate and actually reduce the pinset



-Another variable at play here may be increased OXYGEN SATURATION of the substrate. If the surface is analogous to a lung, then more surface area should allow more oxygen intake and quicker CO2 release.



I have often noticed on my small trays, the mycellium at the bottom seems much more dense than in monotubs when I go to toss the spent substrates. I suspect this may be related to oxygen saturation deep in the substrate. Of course, ditching the liner would change this a lot as well. I'd be curious to know if any side-by-sides on liner vs no liner tubs have been done.



--------------------





I spawned some popcorn casings and had double-overlay cause I didn't put enough hydrogen peroxide in my automated aquarium mister. I only got one mushroom so I cut off the head part where the seeds fall from and put it in a jar of LC and sprayed it all over a tin of PF cakes I made with gravel, cardboard, and bisquick in my microwave. I think it will be good cause B+ is so potent.

Triggered yet?



Only a square would say "a cube is a cube."





No, this does not look right...



Edited by Machiavelliavore (01/09/16 01:41 AM)



Post Extras:

sgfccchamber





Posts: 86

Last seen: 4 years, 7 months StrangerLast seen: 4 years, 7 months Re: Grow Log - Using a Clone in Two Separate Tubs to Test Effects of Increased Surface Area on Yields [Re: Machiavelliavore]

#22755523 - 01/09/16 06:56 AM (4 years, 8 months ago) Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply



Quote:

Machiavelliavore said:

-This may reduce the areas with an ideal microclimate and actually reduce the pinset









Well it can't reduce the areas with an ideal microclimate versus the other tub. If you compare this idea to the idea from the other thread from years ago, then yes, but this is exclusively a test against an increased surface area.



If you compare the two tubs in this thread against one another, they each have equal conditions with regard to microclimate.



--------------------

================================ ================================= =======================

Mushroom / Bulk Substrate Calculator Here is the corresponding shroomery thread: https://www.shroomery.org/forums /showflat.php/Number/22736300/pag e/1



Easy Bulk Substrate Pasteurizer - Hands Free Operation

================================ ================================= =======================



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Wow I never thought of doing different "landscapes" im very intrigued and cant wait to see what shall result



Post Extras:



If you want a nice even pinset the conditions have to be uniform. I suspect the flat tub does better since even if the conditions are not 100% ideal they're uniform so the pinset will be too. that's my guess



that's a lot of coffee but seems like you'll be pulling this one off without the green mean, you know what you're doing



--------------------

police violence is no accident

ACAB

There's two kinds of people. Those who have had a bad interaction with cops and those who haven't got their turn



Post Extras:

sgfccchamber





Posts: 86

Last seen: 4 years, 7 months StrangerLast seen: 4 years, 7 months Re: Grow Log - Using a Clone in Two Separate Tubs to Test Effects of Increased Surface Area on Yields [Re: bodhisatta]

#22756414 - 01/09/16 12:05 PM (4 years, 8 months ago) Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply



Quote:

Myco Dude said:

Wow I never thought of doing different "landscapes" im very intrigued and cant wait to see what shall result







Excited to get the results up Won't be too long!



Quote:

bodhisatta said:

If you want a nice even pinset the conditions have to be uniform. I suspect the flat tub does better since even if the conditions are not 100% ideal they're uniform so the pinset will be too. that's my guess



that's a lot of coffee but seems like you'll be pulling this one off without the green mean, you know what you're doing







I've got the conditions within my tubs really dialed in, and have done this before (not a side-by-side comparison, but "accordion-ing" the surface of a tub) with great results. I mean, while they are angled, the surface of each angle is smooth, so the mycelium shouldn't be able to tell the difference.



The only thing that I guess could affect conditions would be a disproportionally high amount of CO2 in the "valley" of each trough. However, my tubs basically get a stream of fresh air throughout the day given the nature of how I set my tubs up without holes.



As for the coffee, yeah, I should be good to go. I've been using that amount of coffee in my grows for as long as I can remember (10% by volume). The mix you're looking at is: 50/40/10/10:coir/verm/coffee/gyp sum. I take the total volume of verm used and use half course and half fine grades.



Link to my recipe & details about the tub (from OP): http://substratecalculator.weebl y.com/?uom=1&shape=2&length=21.5& radius=0&width=15&depth=3.5&ratio =3&cc=50&verm=40&cg=10&g=10&hs=0& sd=0&hm=0&cm=0&chm=0&wc=0&o=0&hf= 1



Oh....and

Quote:

bodhisatta said:

you know what you're doing





Right back 'atcha!



--------------------

================================ ================================= =======================

Mushroom / Bulk Substrate Calculator Here is the corresponding shroomery thread: https://www.shroomery.org/forums /showflat.php/Number/22736300/pag e/1



Easy Bulk Substrate Pasteurizer - Hands Free Operation

================================ ================================= =======================



Post Extras:

Machiavelliavore









Registered: 12/08/14

Posts: 3,038

Loc: The Sporetorn St ates

Last seen: 2 months, 3 days Vermiculite HaterRegistered: 12/08/14Loc: The Sporetorn St Re: Grow Log - Using a Clone in Two Separate Tubs to Test Effects of Increased Surface Area on Yields [Re: sgfccchamber]

#22756558 - 01/09/16 12:37 PM (4 years, 8 months ago) Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply



I would expect the presumably higher humidity at the deep "joints" in the substrate to favor pinning over the rest of the substrate, esepcially the peaks. Who knows, I'll be curious to see.



--------------------





I spawned some popcorn casings and had double-overlay cause I didn't put enough hydrogen peroxide in my automated aquarium mister. I only got one mushroom so I cut off the head part where the seeds fall from and put it in a jar of LC and sprayed it all over a tin of PF cakes I made with gravel, cardboard, and bisquick in my microwave. I think it will be good cause B+ is so potent.

Triggered yet?



Only a square would say "a cube is a cube."





No, this does not look right...



Post Extras:



Very curious to see how this goes



Post Extras:



Maybe you could experiment with cratering. Use a ball to put indentations into the sub.



Seems like stratescaping would walk a fine line between practicality and novelty.



Even your flat sub has peeks and valleys. Just smaller. Even if you press it down the growing myc will change the layout.





I wanna think that if a tub is starting too show contamination it would have a better chance at getting more fruits out from the high areas. But that's just speculation.



Whatever the outcome it'll provide some neat pics.



Kudos for the fun experimentation.



Post Extras:



yea the surface of a golfball or this fancy pipe

http://geniuspipe.com/pages/tech nology



--------------------

police violence is no accident

ACAB

There's two kinds of people. Those who have had a bad interaction with cops and those who haven't got their turn



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--------------------



New to the shroomery? Want to learn the basics?

START HERE New to the shroomery? Want to learn the basics?















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sgfccchamber





Posts: 86

Last seen: 4 years, 7 months StrangerLast seen: 4 years, 7 months Re: Grow Log - Using a Clone in Two Separate Tubs to Test Effects of Increased Surface Area on Yields [Re: SynKyd]

#22757486 - 01/09/16 03:40 PM (4 years, 8 months ago) Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply



Quote:

Machiavelliavore said:

I would expect the presumably higher humidity at the deep "joints" in the substrate to favor pinning over the rest of the substrate, esepcially the peaks. Who knows, I'll be curious to see.







Ah, my fault, I see what you're saying. I thought maybe you were comparing this idea to the one from the old linked to thread in the OP. I guess there could be a "preferential" climate at the base of each trough if there were a lack of sufficient FAE. In the way I have my tubs setup however they get, effectively, a near constant supply of FAE. Since the troughs are really wide combined with the near constant FAE, I don't think there will be a difference in the climate at the base vs the peak.



If the troughs were more tightly packed (a more severe angle) I would see that being more likely.



Quote:

the_r3dz said:

Very curious to see how this goes







It's going to be interesting!



Quote:

MajorDick said:

Maybe you could experiment with cratering. Use a ball to put indentations into the sub.



Seems like stratescaping would walk a fine line between practicality and novelty.



Even your flat sub has peeks and valleys. Just smaller. Even if you press it down the growing myc will change the layout.





I wanna think that if a tub is starting too show contamination it would have a better chance at getting more fruits out from the high areas. But that's just speculation.



Whatever the outcome it'll provide some neat pics.



Kudos for the fun experimentation.







Thanks very much, it's definitely fun to do things like this to play around. As for cratering, back when I was first trying "slatting" (linked to in the OP) I didn't leave the slats in during colonization. What I found was that the small cracks were effectively sewn back together by the mycelium during colonization when the myc would "reach out" to another surface that was so/too close by and it would easily "grasp" it.



I learned that you either need to leave the item that you're using to create the shape "in the substrate" during colonization if the shapes being created resulted in very small gaps (to prevent the mycelium from "sewing it back together") or create shapes that resulted in it being far enough apart it isn't able to "fill it in" or "sew it together" during colonization.



Quote:

eatyualive said:

interesting little experiment you have here. i await your results.





reminds me of farming. tub farming.



how much longer did it take you to shape the acordian tub compared to the normal tub?







Not long at all...3 minutes maybe. Just inserted what amounts to a little garden spade (in this case just a flat piece of metal) and just kind of shaped it very quickly. After this is finished up I'll put together a "tek" on how to do it quickly and easily that explains how I did it in detail.



I'm more worried about the length of time it took me to take photos than I am of how long it took to create the shape to be honest.



Quote:

bodhisatta said:

yea the surface of a golfball or this fancy pipe

http://geniuspipe.com/pages/tech nology







Those little divots would be too small to leave an impression in the substrate I think. What I mean is I think the texture of the substrate is too course to have such a small impression left within in.



I like the idea of using a sphere though since that would yield, unquestionably, the largest surface area. The smaller divots wouldn't get picked up, but the larger overall shape of the golf ball certainly would be. I think the balls would need to be left in place during colonization to achieve the best end result (IE - prevent the mycelium from "filling in" the divots during colonization).



Quote:

SinysterKyd said:









Thanks!



--------------------

================================ ================================= =======================

Mushroom / Bulk Substrate Calculator Here is the corresponding shroomery thread: https://www.shroomery.org/forums /showflat.php/Number/22736300/pag e/1



Easy Bulk Substrate Pasteurizer - Hands Free Operation

================================ ================================= =======================



Post Extras:



it would have to be much bigger divots like use a baseball



--------------------

police violence is no accident

ACAB

There's two kinds of people. Those who have had a bad interaction with cops and those who haven't got their turn



Post Extras:

sgfccchamber





Posts: 86

Last seen: 4 years, 7 months StrangerLast seen: 4 years, 7 months Re: Grow Log - Using a Clone in Two Separate Tubs to Test Effects of Increased Surface Area on Yields [Re: bodhisatta]

#22758476 - 01/09/16 07:32 PM (4 years, 8 months ago) Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply

sgfccchamber





Posts: 86

Last seen: 4 years, 7 months StrangerLast seen: 4 years, 7 months Re: "No Hole" Monotub Clone Grow Log - Side-by-Side Dual Tub Grow to Test Method for Increased Yield [Re: sgfccchamber]

#22764851 - 01/11/16 06:19 AM (4 years, 8 months ago) Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply

M.T





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Last seen: 9 days, 7 hours StrangerLast seen: 9 days, 7 hours Re: "No Hole" Monotub Clone Grow Log - Side-by-Side Dual Tub Grow to Test Method for Increased Yield [Re: sgfccchamber]

#22765178 - 01/11/16 09:34 AM (4 years, 8 months ago) Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply



Quote:

I cloned directly from the center of a mushroom stipe to grain, then used that grain master to inoculate my other jars (grain to grain). Here is the spawn:







Wow. Mushroom tissue to grain without agar

Always thought that will cause contams because of the unsteril mushroom flesh.



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sgfccchamber





Posts: 86

Last seen: 4 years, 7 months StrangerLast seen: 4 years, 7 months Re: "No Hole" Monotub Clone Grow Log - Side-by-Side Dual Tub Grow to Test Method for Increased Yield [Re: Miscusi]

#22765383 - 01/11/16 10:48 AM (4 years, 8 months ago) Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply