Fox & Friends held a debate Monday morning between George Giuliani, professor of special education at the C.W. Post Campus of Long Island University, and Brad Stine, the conservative stand-up comedian who has become a bit of a fixture on the show. The topic? Rudolph The Red-Nosed Reindeer, the Rankin/Bass stop motion Christmas classic.

Giuliani argued that Rudolph is bullied by other reindeer and Santa Claus. His take? That not only is the bullying wrong, but even his coach (Comet) and Santa — two authority figures — take part in the bullying. “Rudolph is treated very, very badly,” the soft-spoken Giuliani said, “and that shouldn’t happen.” He goes on to add that:

“Comet is saying to children, don’t ever play with this reindeer again. And he tells him to go home and he bullies him and mocks him, and the other kids start mocking him. Can you imagine if your child’s teacher said to the class ‘Don’t ever play with this child again’?”

Host Gretchen Carlson then turned to an excited Stine, who countered by making some relatively useless conservative-liberal jokes, but recovered when he pointed out that this is a story of perseverance. “Look how he handled it,” Stine said. “He didn’t sue Santa because it was a hostile work environment. He overcame obstacles and succeeded. It’s the American dream.”

Still, Giuliani persisted, arguing that the end of the story is where the real hypocrisy comes out. “Santa Claus is saying, ‘You cannot be on my team because you have a disability.’ Now, at the end, [Rudolph] helps Santa Claus get through the snowstorm. Because he has done something extraordinary, he is finally accepted.”

Carlson tried to kick it back to Stine to wrap it up, but Giuliani kept talking. She then shouted out, “It’s a cartoon!” before letting Stine finish.

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Both men, somehow, make interesting points here. Giuliani is promoting a book and is probably overreacting by wanting to eliminate the special entirely (making FNC’s “War on Christmas” campaign seem surprisingly level-headed). But watching the clips back after hearing his argument shows Santa and Comet are kind of unnecessarily mean to Rudolph. It’s like watching The Sixth Sense again, already knowing the twist. Stine, for however frantic and forced-political as he is, does make a solid point that the story works because Rudolph was ostracized, and, through hard work and perseverance, he proved everyone wrong, thus serving as an example to bullied kids.

Watch video of the spirited debate below, courtesy of Fox News.

(Image credit: Classic Media)

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