Marc Guggenheim Convo Round 2 (Spoilers)

You can read about my first conversation with Marc here.

I was wandering around the floor, looking for a present for my daughter, when I heard Marc was hosting another signing. So, I decided to swing by to say goodbye and thank him. Once again, there was no line and I was able to have a nice, long talk with him.

I said hello and we hugged. I told Marc the panels were wonderful. He immediately started talking about how great it was that the cast sang Hamilton. Marc said they have so much musical talent in the cast and they really should do a musical episode. (No, I don’t think he was serious). I laughed and said, “Stephen must be getting so sick of that question. Marc laughed and said, “You have no idea.”



I told him I posted our previous discussion and everyone was so thrilled with the spoilers he gave me. He looked genuinely relieved. Marc said, “That’s wonderful. I’m so glad.” We discussed Legends briefly. I told Marc I was excited about this year’s cast and the villain line up looks awesome. Marc thanked me and said they have a lot of really cool things in store for Legends, He thinks people will be pleased.



Then we started talking about storytelling. And Olicity… of course. I said the spoilers were wonderful because it reassured the fandom a bit. I said, “People worry because they care so much about Oliver and Felicity and this story. But on the other hand, we can just flip to the last chapter of the book. We can stop watching the show and see how it ends in the series finale.”



Marc nodded emphatically and said, “That’s exactly right.” So then I said, “But for me, the ending is so much sweeter if we’ve gone on the journey with the characters.” Marc told me he couldn’t agree more. He said storytelling is really about taking the good with the bad, the ups and the downs. He said he was thrilled that I was in it for the journey and it was absolutely the right attitude to take.



Then, we moved on to Olicity. Marc said they couldn’t ignore the chemistry between Stephen and Emily. I told him that’s what’s so amazing about the way he writes. He lets the story take him where it needs to go. I said the Arrow writers saw lightening in the bottle and they captured it. It wasn’t the expected route and it garnered a lot of complaints from the other side, but he knew it was the right thing to do. And he did it.



Marc thanked me profusely. Honestly, he just looked so proud. Like-his-daughter-got-accepted-to-Harvard proud. He loves what they’ve been able to create with these two characters. Marc gets an almost giddy expression when he’s talking about Oliver and Felicity. His eyes light up and he comes alive. He takes as much joy in this story as we do.

I told him about the Wedding Train. I said when he released the spoiler about a second wedding in Season 3, we thought Oliver and Felicity were an actual possibility when we looked at the evidence in the show. So we started the Wedding Train! I explained it’s basically people in the fandom coming together, having fun, and celebrating the journey towards the wedding. Marc was blown away. He said, “Are you serious? That’s awesome!”



I told Marc we spend a lot of time talking about WHEN the Olicity wedding will happen. When it doesn’t happen in the episode we expect, we simply go on to the next and so on. I said it’s fine because it just means there’s more story to tell. I said everyone on the Wedding Train has the perspective we’re on the scenic route. Marc nodded in agreement and said that was absolutely right. And then I said, “I certainly hope Oliver and Felicity will get there someday.” Then Marc smiled at me, with a knowing glint in his eye, and answered, “I hope so too.”



But then he grew a little more serious and said, “Listen, when we figured out that Arrow was going to go longer than five seasons we had to retool some things. I mean… we like burning through story, but we don’t want to burn through story that fast.” I told him I understood he is writing a television show and this is the way it works.

He did warn me there will be a moment in the premiere that will be very difficult for the Olicity fandom to take. Marc specifically said he wanted me to prepare you guys. Marc reiterated he hopes people are willing to take the good with the bad with them [the writers].



I told Marc that when the Olicity fandom heard about the negativity he was experiencing from the LL fandom, and that’s the reason he left Twitter, there were so many people asking me to tell him how much we love and respect him.

He was truly touched and wanted me to convey again to the Olicity fandom how much he loves us. Our support means the world to him. Marc knows how much we care about these characters and his story.



We talked a little bit more about Laurel’s death. I told him that when K*tie C*ssidy was at SDCC last year I thought it was a bit odd she wasn’t talking all that much about her Season 4 arc. Marc looked surprised, and like he was trying to remember. He said, “Yeah?” I could tell he didn’t know where I was going with this. So I said, “Yeah… my immediate thought was since she’s not promoting much of a storyline it means she’s leaving. I thought it meant she was leaving Arrow for Legends.” I explained that I loved the Laurel and Sara story and I was super jazzed about that possibility. Marc’s eyes went wide and he said, “Ohhhh…” And then I told him, “Then the Season 4 premiere aired with the flash forward of the grave and I said, ‘Nope! Not going to Legends!’” He laughed and got this sort of sweet, but sheepish grin on his face and he said, “Nope. We didn’t do that!”



I told Marc I said all season Arrow was killing off Laurel and how I had so many people telling me, “They can’t kill the Black Canary.” Marc nodded, completely exasperated, and said, “I know! I don’t get that! Of course we can!” It was as unfathomable to him, as it was to me, that people were saying that.

I told Marc I really believe Arrow got all it could out of the BC. When that happens you have to be ready to let the character go. Marc agreed 100%. He said, “That’s really it.” Also, he said it’s good they found a different way to invite Katie back on occasion. I told him she was great as the Black Siren (which she was) and he was really happy I enjoyed that.



But then we talked about Emily, Stephen and David. I told him I understood why the LL fandom was so upset (and so does Marc). I said, “I mean… what if you killed Felicity?” We grabbed each other’s hands and both shuddered. Marc just shook his head and said, “I would NEVER do that.” Then he said, “ There is absolutely no show without Stephen, Emily and David. They are the show. PERIOD.”



I told him my impression of Emily Bett Rickards is that she is a real life unicorn. I asked him if this was accurate. He confirmed it was. Marc said that Emily is as warm and kind as she seems.

Marc told me that he hopes people get more of a Season 1 or even a Season 2 vibe with Olicity. There’s going to be a lot more of Felicity’s awkward phrases.

Then I added, “And longing looks and tension?” Marc nodded, “Oh yes absolutely.”

I mentioned @louiseblue1‘s bookend trilogy idea. That it could go S1-S3 and S4-S6. I said the Season 4 finale felt very much like the Season 1 finale where Oliver set the goals and he failed to achieve them. Marc nodded very enthusiastically and said, “Yes, yes. That’s exactly it.” But then he paused and said, “We want every season to feel like a chapter in a book. Season 5 is very much going to feel like a conclusion in its own right. We’ll be ending the flashbacks. So there will be very much a sense of closure at the end of the season.” So it wasn’t quite the confirmation on the bookend trilogy idea, but they are intentionally having these later seasons be similar in some ways to the earlier seasons.

Then someone else showed up and I had to share him again.

I just wanna hang with this man. He is so cool and sweet. I told him the fandom really misses his Q&A sessions. Marc said he had to take a break because of all the LL negativity. However, he will be back and will absolutely try to have a Q&A session. He was really touched that the fandom missed him. We said goodbye, that we’ll be chatting on Twitter and off I went!



General Impressions and Musings



Honestly, Marc cannot be more gracious, appreciative, kind and humble. I was unbelievably impressed with him. I think he really wants fans to enjoy Arrow and be excited about the show. It doesn’t mean he’s going to give us everything we want, when we want, but our opinion does matter to him. Marc truly hopes people are willing to go on this journey with him. It worries him when the fans are upset, concerned or disillusioned. He wants the fans to understand what they are trying to accomplish. Marc knows not every storyline is successful, but their intent is always good. They are always trying to tell a good story. Truly my friends, don’t ever doubt this man’s commitment to Olicity and this fandom.



Personally, I think Marc pretty much confirmed an Olicity wedding without saying the actual words. I believe he wanted to impress that upon on me for a reason. Marc knows there’s some “bad” coming up for Olicity, but he doesn’t want the fans to lose hope or trust in the writers.



Yes, I heard about the boyfriend spoiler. My position on that has not changed. You can read it here.



I jumped on Twitter to give people a heads up about my convo with Marc and this post. Truthfully, I was disheartened by what I saw. I saw so many nasty tweets tagging Marc and Wendy, berating them about the Felicity boyfriend storyline.



Listen, I’m not saying we have to agree with every single storyline Arrow puts out there. I’m also not saying every single storyline Arrow puts out there is going to be a GOOD storyline. What I am saying is this: I never want this fandom to become like the LL fandom. The LL hate drained Marc. It was really tough on him and I believe the positivity from the Olicity fandom was a saving grace for him. He is so appreciative of our support.



But that doesn’t mean we get to act like petulant toddlers, pitching a hissy fit, berating these writers on Twitter and Tumblr every time we don’t get our way or a storyline makes us unhappy. That’s what the other fandom did.

Discussion is good! A dialogue with the writers is great. The ongoing feedback between Marc, Wendy, the writers and the audience, I believe, is truly beneficial for all parties. Regardless of whether that feedback is positive or negative. Disagreement is fine, but I hope people keep it respectful. I would never want this fandom to be the reason Marc stops engaging with us. Because, trust me my friends, he LOVES engaging with us.



I’ve said Arrow has pumped the breaks on Olicity because they are trying to milk this relationship for all it’s worth – that’s what television shows do. Marc confirmed that. The show is going longer than expected and they needed to slow things down a bit. That doesn’t mean the overall plan has changed. Nor does it automatically mean that the storylines they use to slow Olicity down are automatically bad or contrived. Could some of them be? Sure. Of course they could. But, as always, I like to watch the show before I rush to judgement.



Is the boyfriend the “bad” Marc was talking about? I don’t know. Personally, I doesn’t really matter to me. I do find it incredibly endearing that he wanted to prepare the fandom and encourage us to hang in there though.



There is no such thing as a flawless television show. Every show I’ve ever loved had storylines that drove me nuts, made me scream at my TV, or were just plain BAD. It doesn’t mean they weren’t great shows. And yes, I include Buffy The Vampire Slayer in this. Whedon had more than a few clunkers in his 7 year run. But at the end of the day, nobody focuses on “Bad Eggs” or “Doublemeat Palace.” Instead, we talk about BTVS as a WHOLE. We talk about what a great story it was because we stuck with Whedon and saw the story to its completion.

Writing is challenging. If it was easy everybody would do it. I firmly believe the writers are doing their very best to bring us a good television show, but they are going to make mistakes. There’s going to be some bad. However, I am willing to stick with Marc and see this story to its completion so I can view the series as a WHOLE. Could the whole picture be bad? Sure, but after four years of watching Arrow and seeing the commitment Marc has to this story I do not believe it will be. I think the whole picture will be pretty damn fabulous. So, I’m willing to take the good with the bad and, hopefully, the end of the road will be all the sweeter because of it.



But that’s my choice. It doesn’t have to be yours. You can choose to change the channel and never come back. You can choose to come back for the series finale. But for me, I have fallen in love with Arrow, so I’m not going anywhere. The single biggest take away I have from SDCC is Marc Guggenheim loves Arrow and Olicity as much as me. No… that’s wrong. Marc loves them more.

