A Definitive Guide to Fighting Submarines in World of Tanks

BEST

BEST

DON’T EVER RAM A TOG!

just run away

best anti-TOG

unable to effectively pen a TOG

very bottom of the rear armor is the best spot to shoot

An alternative tactic for these tanks is to hug to back of the TOG

not

France:

Canada:

his turret will traverse faster than you can circle him

UK:

Soviet:

Germany:

definitive

a quarter to a third of a TOG’s hit points

Just be aware that one on one the TOG will usually win

America:

France:

UK:

Soviet:

America:

Do not however, think you are invincible due to your armor

Germany:

with Premium rounds that the TOG can comfortably pen up to tier 9 mediums

all the tier 5 heavies besides the KV-1 and the T-14 should be aware that your turret armor will do little to stop a TOG

America:

France:

the tank’s hull armor will bounce a TOG shell far more often than its turret

Soviet:

if a Kv-1S uses cover effectively, then yes it will usually win one on one against a TOG

TOG’s worst nightmare

UK:

Churchill VII is probably the best tank to fight the TOG in its tier due to the tanks great frontal armor

Never try to brawl

Sniping with hull-down

the worst tank a TOG has to fight

the 10.5mm on the Sherman is a great anti-TOG gun

works just as well for TD’s

put its massive 390m view range to use

find a better target

you’re an easy kill

the TOG has trouble penning front even with Premium rounds

it’s only good against TOG’s.

Don’t insult the TOG

This guide, as obviously stated above, is how to fight Togs, not play them. For great advice on how to play one of these 80 ton behemoths please refer to Lert’s guide to the TOGII* found under the Game Guides and Tutorials section. This is also very long…Having bought the TOG out of sheer curiosity when released server side thinking of it just for the lolz initially, I’ve come to greatly respect how strong the tank is in-game after 350+ matches.It pains me, however, that when fighting one(or multiple) TOG’s, that most of your teammates have no idea how to properly engage a TOG and you’ll watch the score tip over in the enemy teams favor rather quickly. Thus, one the hopes that someone(s) actually reads the forum guides (unlikely, I know), and finds this advice of somewhat relative use.Let’s start with the basics: Hull armor is 76/76/50 with the glacis angle being just less than 100mm, while the turret is 114/76/76. Mobility is 14kmh with a 20 degree turn speed. This tends to be rather unimpressive on paper, especially compared other tier 6 heavies.What the TOG does have in its favor, however, is 1400hp-more than most tier 7 heavies, a 360 view range, and an excellent gun-the QQF 17-pounder MK.VII. The 17-pounder haspen for AP shells, andon prem. APCR shells and averages 150dmg per shot. Combine this with 32 turret traverse speed, great gun depression, a fire rate of 12, and not to mention the preferential matchmaking the TOG gets (unplatooned it fights tier 7 heavies at worst), makes it a monster at the hands of a skilled player.The, and I do mean, solution to dealing with a TOG, is to either wolfpack in a large group (4+, tiers depending), or just call for arty-they love practically immobile targets.I won’t be mentioning side-scrapping or ramming below but I’ll be brief, side-scrapping may or may not work due to your tanks height and the TOG’s great gun depression; if you think you have the HP to pull it off its work a try. As for ramming,, the tank weighs 80 tons, so unless your in a tier 8+ German heavy (or kv-4/5), don’t bother.However, let’s say it’s just you, no teammates close by or left, or no arty (blasted lights), what should you do? Try and follow the tier and tank analysis below. (The guide below is based on the presumption that non-premium AP rounds are being used-Premium shells are a whole different ball-game): Unless in a platoon, you should never be fighting a Tog in the first place. If you are platooning with someone and see a TOG,. It’s doubtful that you’ll even pen (the marder tends to be an exception to this); let alone hurt it, so go pick on the nearest tier 4 (or the platoon leader for his great choice of tank).Can you kill a TOG-yes, will you have any ammo for anything else-doubtful.The SU-26 and the M37 will bounce off the front constantly, and while the M37 can just send another downrange due to its obscene ammo pool, the SU-26 player would be wiser in either flanking for side hits, or just targeting something else.The Wespe, Sturmpanzer 2, and the Lorraine 39 L AM can all do decent damage, though there are probable easier, less armored targets to hit first, and lack of any gun traverse on the Sturmpanzer 2 and the Lorraine 39 L AM makes hitting even the TOG annoying.The M7 Priest, AMX 105AM, and the 105 leFH18B2 all have a fairly easy time fighting TOG’s-be aware, however, that the 53mm means that you may bounce if you are shooting front armor.The SU-5 with the 152mm doesn’t have the same issue, though decreased damage of 350 average to 410 average and only 14 shells mean you’ll probably end up using about half your ammo against one tank.The Grille, probably one of thetanks in game due to their same matchmaking, can 2 to 3-shot a TOG with ease, and the 75mm of pen that it shares with the SU-5 means it will rarely bounce.TOG’s will usually only fight these when they are mid-list, and should said arty find one, the TOG’s prodigious health pool tends to drop to zero faster than said player would like it to. One-shoting is rare mind you, but you should never need more than two direct hits.This will only occur if the TOG platoons with another tank besides other TOG’s or low-tier tanks, so if you happen to see one in an S-51 or a T92, well, it’s open season. 1400 hp means little to arty at this tier, and being only slightly faster than a T95 without its obscene front armor means it won’t run far when the spot ends.Note that the Soviet Lend-Lease Valentine II will never match with a TOG unless platooned. The first thing to be aware of when using these tanks is that short of the HE-lobbers (A-20, M5 Stuart), most tier 4 lights are, and even then the damage tends to be negligible (Leopard, Pz 38 NA, Covenanter, AMX-40).The only 2 that can semi-reliably pen are the British Valentine and the T-50, of which the former is too slow to get out of a bad situation. If you must engage a TOG, the, too high and you’ll bounce; otherwise just signal your arty or better armed teammates and either spot from a safe distance or find something with less armor to shoot at, as the TOG will probably 2-shot you if you try to engage it.Note that the T-50-2, VK2801, and M24 Chaffee will only match when the TOG is mid-list.The Crusader is not a tank you want to be in when fighting a TOG, sure it has a fast-firing, relatively high-pen gun, but the lack of armor and speed compared to other lights make it an easy target, so it’s best to leave it to another or attempt to snipe from cover.T-50-2’s and Chaffee’s can circle or snipe, but must be aware or the TOG’s high view range and fairly fast turret turn speed, although a group of them will overwhelm a TOG rather quickly.The VK2801 with the 10.5 HE-lobber is a different story altogether, if a pen occurs, you’ll see 300-450 damage per shot as well as multiple module damage to the TOG providing you don’t hit the tracks that is.The ELC, usually matches with the TOG more than the other tanks and should try sniping or hit-and-run.and shoot with relative impunity.This tactic, which works amazingly when done properly, should only be considered after 3 things: velocity, amount of enemies nearby, and location.Velocity is how well you can stop in time, because if your 6 ton tank hits the TOG going at 65kmh, there won’t be much left of you, so time your braking and see how long it takes to go from 65 to 0.Amount of enemies nearby is how much support the TOG has; one crusader-go for it, 3 heavies-well…maybe later. Location is being aware of where you and the TOG are when attempting to hug the rear-he can and will push you off a cliff or into a lake if you’re dumb enough to try this nearby.The only two tanks in this category are the T21 and the AMX-12t, the latter of which I’ve fought against maybe 5 times at most. Anyways, name of the game at this tier (TOG’s will be mid-list), is just shoot and scoot.The T71, AMX 13-75, AMX-13-90 and Type-62 comprise of this category. TOG’s fighting at this level will be platooned, but the auto-loading tanks shouldn’t fear them all too much. Same as above, shoot-and-scoot, just be aware that they will pen if they hit you.Note that the Soviet A-32 will not match a TOG unless platooned.The Soviet T-28 is the closest tank in-game to resembling the TOG-it’s large, has a good gun for its tier, and has paper armor. It is however quite mobile, so use the tier 5 57mm to shoot and scoot, or make use ofany cover nearby.The Pzkpfw III and the M3 Lee (referred to in tier 4 TD’s-ita tank) are a different story though, as the Pz III has trouble penning the TOG with any of its guns and its 7.5 cm L/24 lacks the damage for a noticeable effect-best to just use your speed and leave the TOG eating dust.The Matilda however, can pen the TOG with ease with its QF 2-pounder Mk.X-B, just be aware that with only 55 average damage per shot it’ll take a while so you’ll need good cover or the TOG will obliterate you.I’ll be breaking medium tiers 5 and 6 and heavies tier 6 into general advice-by-nation subcategories due to the amount of tanks at that tier (thanks Germany…)NAYes, it’s technically American but the Ram II was a Canadian tank. Any ways, the 6-pounder mounted on the Ram II has a ferocious fire rate of 26.2, and with 105 pen the side of a TOG can be penned-just be aware thatThe Black Prince is the only tank in this category and while not a bad tank due to its great DPM (same gun as the Ram II but with HE rounds too) should be aware that a TOG will kill it long before it can kill said TOG- try sniping at a distance.The Matilda IV should avoid a TOG at all cost. While the damage isn’t bad the 86 pen on the gun is unreliable at best, and with a top speed of only 25kmh, you can’t escape close-quarters-combat without being shredded-try sniping, but in general just find a different target.The T-34 is a whole different story; slanted turret armor and a rammer on the 57mm turn the tank into a circling buzzsaw; if that fails to work mount the S-54 76mm and snipe.The T-25 should simply sit back and snipe, its turret moves far too slowly to circle and the sloped armor is far more effective at range. The PZ III/IV and PZ IV can also use this strategy quite well, though the PZ III/IV can circle well due to its high speed and 53 turret traverse speed.For aanswer to the TOG however, the PZ IV can mount the 10.5 cm KwK 42 L/28, a HE lobber with massive damage;should it pen (A premium round will have a practically guaranteed pen on the TOG).I can attest that more than half of my TOG deaths have been to either derp-panzers or derp-shermans-they are one of the best anti-TOG tanks out there.; either wait for it to be distracted, use cover to pop-out for shots or gang up on it for best results.The M4 Sherman should be using the same strategy as the PZ IV, just use the 10.5mm derp. The M4A2E4 should snipe from cover however, as it lacks the option of the derp that the regular M4 does. The M7 should use hit-and-run or circling tactics, as its armor is easily penned at range regardless and that it mounts a rapid-firing gun.NAAll the Cromwell needs to do is circle and shoot repeatedly. Simple as it sounds, this tactic has yet to fail me.The T-34-85 should act accordingly to what gun is has mounted. The 85mm guns turn the tank into an effective brawler while the 122mm Howitzer means that sniping should be considered due to slow loading time.The E2 and E8 are essentially the same tank, one swapping armor for mobility, yet both mount the same weapons. Quite a lot of players in these tanks will still use the 10.5mm from the Sherman-same strategy applies here. While the fast-firing 76mm isn’t a bad idea, the lack of alpha and the amount of health the TOG has means it will usually kill you first.A note to E2 players; hull-down is your best friend, as a TOG can’t reliably pen your turret without gold rounds.-I’ve had far too many E2’s charge me only to realize halfway there that I’m penning the hull with ease. Use cover and you’ll sink the sub eventually.Why Germany has 6 tier 6 mediums I’ll never know but two of them, the PZ V-IV and PZ V-IV Alpha are so rare that despite playing since open beta, I’ve seen them maybe a dozen times at most. From what little information I’ve garnered they play like a PZ III/IV so use said tactics listed for that tank.The VK 3001 (H), VK 3001 (P), and the Pzkpfw IV Schmalturm should all sit back and snipe. Pen won’t be an issue and all 3 tanks are not good at brawling, as well as being relatively thinly-armored (Schmalturm hull-down is a nightmare to try and pen however).The VK 3601 (H) though, can and should brawl, as the tank bounces shells quite often and has health equivalent to a tier 6 heavy at 850 HP.The Comet, VK 3002 (DB), and T-43 are basically up-armored versions of their predecessors, thus the same tactics should be used as above, and the KV-13 plays like a T-43 as it mounts the same guns.The Pzkpfw V Panther and the Panther-M10 should stay back in cover and snipe, they aren’t efficient brawlers, and the Panther V’s turret will bounce a fair bit at distance.The T20, while getting a great 90mm, is still sadly better off with the original M4 derp gun, due to that fact that it has more damage and better fire rate than the 90mm-see above for tactics.At this tier you should be out-gunning the TOG and will not see one unless it’s platooned. Just be aware that it will still have more HP than you, thatrather easily, and will still pen a tier 8 mediums hull with just AP.TOG’s at this level don’t tend to last that long however due to the increased damage from artillery and TD’s in particular, so if you do come across one it’s liable to have a foot in the grave already.Note that the Pzkpfw B2 740 (f) and B1 will never fight a TOG unless platooned; if you do end up in a match against one, stay away from it, non-prem rounds will probably not pen it.Firstly,. The T1 Heavy, T14, and both the Churchill’s I and III need to either use effective cover or get in close to lessen the amount of weak points showing whereas the BDR G1B should sit back and snipe with the 90mm DCA 30 due to its lack of armor compared to the other tier 5 heavies.The KV-1 can hull-down though as 2nd turrets 110mm of armor will bounce a fair amount of shots. The 85mm can be used as a sniping gun, while the 122mm will blow holes in a TOG providing that it pens. After having only fought a KV-220 once in almost 12k battles I’ve no idea how to fight a TOG with it other than suggesting to use the KV-1 strategy above.The M6 is an up-gunned T1 Heavy, nothing more, thus use the same strategy.The ARL 44 can fight at either use long-range (90mm F3) or mid-range (105mm Canon 13TR) rather effectively, and, so don’t brawl if you can help it.The T-150 isn’t as good at fighting TOG’s as it looks; the armor is easily penned besides the gun mantlet, and the TOG has more accuracy and slightly better DPM; the clincher being that the TOG has 520 more HP.Oh, the KV-1S, champ of TC’s, seems to be unbeatable by newer players. Against a TOG however, different story;. In the open though, the TOG’s DPM outs it by a fair amount and with the KV-1S’s armor nerf in 8.2, the TOG can reliably pen everywhere but the mantlet (30m more view range and almost 600 more HP tend to help too).The KV-2 with the Derpgun (152 mm M-10) is abesides artillery. Losing almost 1000 hitpoints from the first shot puts a TOG into killable size range for almost everything; just be aware that pulling this means that the TOG player will usually do his damnedest to try and take you with him before you reload and if out in the open with no cover you’ll easily take 700+ damage before your reload finishes.Theof 152mm.with a TOG in one though, for if the TOG side-scrapes you, he can pen you (yes, they go faster forward than you do in reverse); just keep slowly reversing if he looks like he’s trying to rush you.: sounds exciting but is actually terribly boring. It basically comes down to (at full HP) who fires first wins the slugfest. Use cover if any is large enough to improve your chance of a miss, but otherwise it’s just click click click etc until one of you blows up.Generally you should win in one on one against a TOG in a tier 7 heavy but that isn’t always the case.is usually your best bet in the T29, IS, AMX M4 (1945), Pzkpfw Tiger and Pzkpfw Tiger (P); present a weak hull to the TOG and he will shoot it.The Black Prince is just a Churchill VII with a TOG’s gun so use the same tactic of snipe and slowly back away. The KV-3 takes the cake asin my opinion sans artillery; the armor slant and thickness mean that a TOG will have trouble penning even side armor close-in and the powerful 122mm D-25T means it’ll make short work of a TOG.Unless you have bad armor (Caernarvon), low alpha damage gun (Caernarvon), and are weak to module damage due to multiple hits and bad tank design (again, Caernarvon), you should have no trouble with a TOG at this tier; his platoon mates are probably far more concerning.If, for some reason, you meet one or more of said above requirements (or all 3…) sitting back and sniping probably wouldn’t hurt. (Contrary to above I enjoy playing the Caernarvon, others may have…differing opinions)As I’ve listed above,, so with better fire rate than most mediums, this obviously; just ignore the circling bit, it doesn’t all to well without a turret. With that being said the T40, Hezter, and Somua SAu-40 all follow this tactic of shoot, pull back, rinse and repeat. Just be aware at this tier the TOG can 2-shot you; use caution.The SU-85B should find a bush to camp in and; feel endangered-just fall back.The M8A1 can use the same tactic just be aware that the view range is only 370m.As for the M3 Lee well…. In all honesty the TOG will spot you first and can 3-shot you, where as you’ll need at least 14+ shots providing you don’t bounce, so just ignore it, as it knowsSit back and snipe-should be obvious if you’ve got to this level of TD. The S-35 CA in particular can make short work of a TOG due to the 90mm it shares with the ARL 44.The StuG III, M10 Wolverine and SU-85 have access to a derpgun (see above); as for the T49, shoot-and-scoot tactics due to the lack of a high alpha gun.The JagdPz IV, Dicker Max, SU-100, and ARL V39 should just sit back and snipe. The M18 Hellcat can abuse its excessive speed for hit-and-run, just be aware that the 76mm on the second turret won’t be bouncing a TOG shell.Hull-down can improve how long the SU-100 and JagdPz IV last, however the Jackson shines in this role due to the 114mm of hull armor and massive gun mantlet.Yawn…range’s good, check; begin sniping, cease when TOG is obliterated and next target. Yeah, that about sums up how to fight a TOG in most tier 7 TD’s; i.e. the Jagdpanther, SU-152, SU-101M1, SU-122 44, T25 AT, T25/2, and AMX AC Mle.1946.Just be aware that if the TOG sees you, he will shoot you (duh) and may pen. The sole exception to this rule is the AT-15A, which; though with the amount of hate the tank has, I have yet to see someone one who has one besides one of the guys I group with. It’s probably the best anti-TOG tank that there is, but that’s the issue;If you have trouble with a platooned TOG at this level, you need to rethink your playstyle. You shouldn’t need more than 3 shots max and BOOM! No more TOG. He’ll probably never even see you if you do it right.Also, one last piece of advice, relevant to all of the above:if you aren’t smart about; He will gun for you and end your match rather quickly (like you, and you, and especially YOU)Hopefully reading this guide has improved your sub-sinking skills and if you found it enjoyable or useful, advise it to others. Writing this took about 6 hours and was done in a sitting, not close to as long as I thought, so I may do more in the future (like How to not be a Lemming; a guide on how to play with TOG’s on the team). Also, a thanks to Lert for an excellent guide on how to play the TOG and inadvertantly how to make a guide.

Edited by GCobley, Jan 05 2013 - 00:08.