REES It’s like we just pulled the tablecloth off. This table’s always been here; we just now pulled off the cloth and said, “Oh, wait.” So I think it’s forcing a recognition for seeing an interrogation of histories. If I can go three grandmothers back and find a slave, that means someone else can go three grandmothers back and find a slave owner. When you interrogate your histories, it forces you to rethink who you are and where you are.

Was it surprising that things maybe haven’t changed all that much?

MULLIGAN I was surprised to the extent of it, that part of society still holds archaic, unforgivable beliefs about things. I’ve been shocked in the last year by the extent of it. I think I was a little bit naïve. Where people felt before they had to keep a secret, now they’re given a platform to speak these things out loud, which is crazy.

BLIGE I knew that there was still racism because I would have to deal with it going in stores, or if you’re not dressed up people really ——

REES They assume you’re stealing.

BLIGE —— until you pull your credit card out, you know?

REES I feel like a lot of it was evident during Barack Obama’s presidency. There was unprecedented disrespect, unprecedented resistance. There was a sole purpose to stonewall him. That was a version of putting him in his place. People were talking about postracial; we just kind of knew that was an error. I’m fine now dressed up in these clothes and talking to you, but when I’m in the drugstore and in my sweats, the reaction is still more of suspicion. I’m treated as a thief rather than a customer. And that’s New York City today.

It’s arguably most pronounced in America, but it’s not limited to America. Set against that bleak reality, what does “Mudbound” do then?

REES I think “Mudbound” reveals the interconnectiveness of our stories. You can’t separate out threads of history and race as economic construct. “Mudbound” makes it very plain. Race is about commerce; it’s not an actual thing. It’s a fiction that was created to basically divide resources unequally. You couldn’t do this with someone if you saw them as another human being. You could only do it if you say, “You’re different. Manifest Destiny. God wants us to have it.” “Mudbound” unravels all that. We see these particular threads, and how their fates are woven together, and how they’re in almost a jail of their own creation.