EMMA ALBERICI, PRESENTER: Joining us from our Brisbane studio is the federal Opposition spokesman on Regional Development, Local Government and Water and the leader of the Nationals in the Senate, Barnaby Joyce.

Senator Joyce, thanks for joining us and congratulations on the win in Queensland over the weekend.

If we talk about that in a moment, but first I wanted to move to the news of the day, if you like.

Can you tell us: you want to secure a seat in the Lower House of the Federal Parliament. Why?

BARNABY JOYCE, NATIONALS LEADER IN THE SENATE: Well, Emma, I think it's very important that you should in your job try to get to the highest possible level that you possibly can to bring the best possible outcome to the people you represent, and quite obviously if I'm going to do that and it's a career like yours, Emma, then your aspiration has to be to try and get to the Lower House to match up to the people who you oppose.

Now, the Senate is an incredible place and an incredible honour. This is the point of your career that you get to. Your people ask it of you to try and make sure that you get to the position of the most influence that you can possibly bear to bring about the greatest outcome in their lives, and in trying to do that, I've been asked to go to the Lower House, so I'll try and get there.

But, you know, maybe I'll get there, maybe I won't, Emma. It's in the lap of the gods a bit and off we go. We'll see how this journey ends.

EMMA ALBERICI: You say that you've been asked to go there. Is this your colleagues that are asking you?

BARNABY JOYCE: Yes, I've been asked by quite a range of people to make a move to the Lower House and I've been asked for that over a number of years, to tell you the truth. So, this is the opportunity.

Why would it be now, Emma? Because that's going to be your next question. Because we're in opposition and you use the time in opposition to try and organise yourself so that you don't have these disconnects during government.

Obviously during government, the focus is on the job you do and any move then - you try to lock things in so that when you get to government, you're stable, everything is in place and the show moves ahead with the best prospect of you staying in government.

EMMA ALBERICI: Now Bruce Scott is the sitting member in the Queensland seat of Maranoa where you live. Have you discussed this with him?

BARNABY JOYCE: Well I'm not going to disclose what conversations I may or may not have had in private, but I think it's fair to say that at this point in time I haven't been asked on a formal basis. There hasn't been any preselection called.

So, Bruce is the incumbent in Maranoa and he's doing a very good job and he's done a very good job over 20 years. So, you know, I respect the job that Bruce has done and continues to do and, you know, I've made my intentions clear that that is obviously - if the passage was available, my first preference would be in where I live and I live in Maranoa.

If that is not available to me then I would look elsewhere and obviously the most logical place is where I grew up, which is New England, and I've said that now for over a year.

EMMA ALBERICI: So you say it's in the lap of the gods. Who are the gods?

BARNABY JOYCE: The pre-selectors, and the pre-selectors in any electorate - the thing we like on our side of politics is the people who determine who their local member is in any - at any election, at any time is the pre-selectors. The pre-selectors and the party members. That's why people pay their membership: to have a say in who represents them and I respect that absolutely entirely, and every time, Emma, they get the decision right. Whatever they choose to do is the right decision.

EMMA ALBERICI: You're one of the most senior members if not the most senior member of - or certainly the most high-profile member of the Nationals federally. You're not suggesting you won't have a say in the matter?

BARNABY JOYCE: Well, you know, put your best foot forward in whichever forum that you've been given, Emma. And I've tried to do that over the last six or so years in federal politics. I think I've moved the agenda on a number of issues such as the ETS and people have seen that.

We continue to move it on the carbon tax and the people of Queensland have endorsed the position merely a day or so ago that whoopy policies will get you cast into political on oblivion. And ...

EMMA ALBERICI: Hold on a minute, the carbon tax isn't a policy of state Queensland.

BARNABY JOYCE: Ah, hang on a minute, Emma Alberici, we've already seen that even the premier's - the former premier's husband was crucial in the administration of that and we saw that that ...

EMMA ALBERICI: But this wasn't a policy of state Labor in Queensland. That's a federal policy. You're muddying the waters a little, aren't you?

BARNABY JOYCE: No, I'm not, Emma, because every one of those Labor candidates who lost their seat at the election had underneath their name the word - the acronym ALP - Australian Labor Party. Not the Queensland Labor Party; Australian Labor Party. And the premiere policy of the Australian Labor Party ...

EMMA ALBERICI: Well the guys who won had - on the flip side of that, the guys who won had LNP under their names. It's got nothing to do with you then.

BARNABY JOYCE: Well, and - well I'm in the LNP, Emma, so of course it's got something to do with me.

But if they believe in it - and if you look at the exit polls, Emma, we had them going out saying they were worried about the cost of living. What's going to drive up the cost of living? The carbon tax. And then it was about trust. What's the biggest issue about trust? Well, Julia Gillard saying there wasn't going to be a carbon tax. What was issue number three? Well, it was the carbon tax.

So it was the carbon tax, the carbon tax and the carbon tax. And so these are the issues - because the ladies like yourself in the western suburbs of Brisbane who want the right to have that $20 left in their wallet and not stolen off them because of some insane idea that somebody can change the temperature of the globe voiced that opinion.

They want people to look after their standard of living. They want to make sure that the basic necessities of life are made cheaper. They want to make sure that the fundamentals such as the infrastructure is looked after so they're not bouncing down the Warrego Highway, even though I heard Mr Albanese saying well it's apparently a work of art.

Well, Mr Albanese, go for a wander yourself along the Warrego Highway and tell me what a marvellous job you've been doing lately. I mean, this is it. And then they say they're going to visit us ...

EMMA ALBERICI: Now, if all these issues - hold on, you've raised so many issues there. If all these issues played such a role in the ...

BARNABY JOYCE: It is Lateline.

EMMA ALBERICI: ... state campaign, then why didn't they feature in any of the LNP campaign literature? And in fact when Campbell Newman made his victory speech he didn't mention any of those issues.

BARNABY JOYCE: Well he did mention it through the campaign. And I do know because I go out into the polling booths and I've been working the area continuously through the state election that people have lost trust in the Labor Party.

The Labor Party have managed to do something successful. If you want to know what the place looks likes when you get all the Green votes, come up to Queensland, because the Labor Party's got them. And they've been cast in the wilderness because they have once more, they have taken their core for granted in their desire to get to the extremities and now the core has deserted them and they've been left with the extremities.

If you want to go down these mad policy frolics such as carbon tax, NBN and the state Labor Party was part of it - green corridors from Birdsville to Brisbane. You know, let's decide that the batts are more important than the people, Emma!

EMMA ALBERICI: Senator Joyce, Senator Joyce, what is your ...

BARNABY JOYCE: I mean, if you want to go down these fishing zones - shutting down all the fishing zones up and down the coast, of course they're going to get tossed out!

EMMA ALBERICI: Senator Joyce, what is your Coalition policy on climate change going to cost the electorate?

BARNABY JOYCE: Well, we have budgeted a $3.2 billion full stop. There's - they're going to be sending at the end of their policy - what is it?, $56.9 billion a year, Emma! To buy carbon credits in Rwanda!

EMMA ALBERICI: But they're also offering pension cuts, cuts in taxes, they're going to raise superannuation. They've got compensation on the other side which is quite significant.

BARNABY JOYCE: Oh, what a load of rubbish. You're not that gullible, Emma.

EMMA ALBERICI: What, they're not offering compensation?

BARNABY JOYCE: You're not that gullible that you believe that. Let's go through them, Emma; let's go through them one by one in seriatim. Number one: the superannuation increase. They're offered you that, haven't they, Emma? But of course the superannuation increase is not paid by the Government, it's paid by the employer. The employer pays it to go from 9 to 12 per cent and if they can't afford it they'll just put off the employees.

Let's go to the second one: the small business tax deduction. Well let's talk about the small business tax deduction. It doesn't exist. It's a small business tax deduction, but except 70 per cent of small businesses - in fact more - don't get it. Two million registered small businesses, Emma; only 300,000 of them are incorporated. They're the 300,000 are the only ones who get the chance of a tax deduction, paid for by a tax increase in another area. Now I reckon if I gave you $3 and I owed you $20, you'd feel ripped off.

EMMA ALBERICI: OK, let's move on to foreign ownership. 11.3 per cent of Australia's farmland is now owned or part owned by foreign investors. What in your view will be the consequences if in Australia we do nothing to stop that trend?

BARNABY JOYCE: Well, it's probably more than that, Emma, it's probably more than that because if you go through the Australian Bureau of Statistics you'd see that - and their analysis of that, they've said any farm business is something that earns $5,000 or more from agricultural income. Now, that's a couple of pear trees and a couple of rabbits. I don't know how - $5,000, it's nothing. It's three-fifths of five-eighths of the unmentionable.

But and then we've also got - a number of people didn't actually send their research material back. So, I would straightaway query the Australian Bureau of Statistics analysis of what exactly is foreign owned.

We have a national interest test, Emma, and the whole time of that national interest test, Emma, we haven't had one rejection of a foreign purchase of an Australian farm or an Australian agribusiness. Now surely, Emma, you would start to ask questions because I'm not scared of foreign ownership, Emma, I'm just scared that the Foreign Investment Review Board is not protecting our national interest. And that is something the Foreign Investment Review ...

EMMA ALBERICI: But there's a threshold at the Foreign Investment Review ...

BARNABY JOYCE: Yes, sure.

EMMA ALBERICI: The Foreign Investment Review Board has a threshold of $244 million, so assumedly none of those farms met that threshold which is why they didn't go through government review.

BARNABY JOYCE: Well, it's two levels, Emma. It's $244 million for individuals, which is ridiculous, because I don't know a farm that's worth $244 million - maybe Cubbie Station: that's probably worth $244 million and more.

But the rest, I don't know. They can buy $244 million farm then another $244 million farm and then another $224 million farm and another and another and another without actually breaching it if they're from America, a billion dollars at a time. If it's a dollar ...

EMMA ALBERICI: So what do you think it should be lowered to?

BARNABY JOYCE: If it's a dollar ...

EMMA ALBERICI: What should it be lowered to, that threshold?

BARNABY JOYCE: Well, if it's - well, vastly lower, Emma.

EMMA ALBERICI: How much lower? What are you suggesting?

BARNABY JOYCE: Well, Emma, well, Emma, no matter what I say you're either going to say it's too low, it's too high, it's not right or query it.

EMMA ALBERICI: Oh, no, well we need to know where you're coming from. At the moment you're arguing $244 million's too high.

BARNABY JOYCE: Yes, vastly too high.

EMMA ALBERICI: What would be a more acceptable figure - roughly?

BARNABY JOYCE: Vastly lower. So, ...

EMMA ALBERICI: Well what's vastly lower?

BARNABY JOYCE: Oh, well, less than 100.

EMMA ALBERICI: Is it $100 million? Is it $50 million?

BARNABY JOYCE: No, no - well that is ridiculous - this is this gotcha question and I'm not going to engage it.

EMMA ALBERICI: No! It's a logical question that flows, isn't it? I mean, if $244 million's too high, what's more acceptable to you?

BARNABY JOYCE: Well - well, Emma, you have to report to the Foreign Investment Review Board if it's a state-owned enterprise, even if the purchase of the farm is $1.

The problem is, Emma, it's not the reporting that caused the problem, it's the fact that they never, ever reject, which means their assessment of the national interest has a paucity of examination.

Now, we need foreign investment and foreign investment is good, but we cannot compromise the national interest. We cannot lose sight that this - that the greatest thing that we can hand on to our children - if you follow the Menzies principle that the rights of the individual is paramount, then we don't want the individual competing, for instance, with state-owned enterprises, another nation's government, in the marketplace against you.

I mean, people who follow Robert Menzies would understand quite clearly that one of the paramount things is the liberty of the individual as expressed in their capacity to have ownership of their own nation.

And you can't have ownership of your own nation if you're up against another nation's government forcing you out of the market. Now there must be something that is in the national interest. There must be something that explains the national interest. And yes, $100 million is vastly too high.

EMMA ALBERICI: Your suggestion ...

BARNABY JOYCE: I'm going to answer your question. $100 million is also vastly too high. But I'm not going to sit on Lateline with you and try and get to a position. That is something for me to negotiate with my colleagues and I've been doing it as hard as I can on ...

EMMA ALBERICI: So is $100 million what you want? Is $100 million what you would be more comfortable with?

BARNABY JOYCE: Well, I'm not going to - well, I'll have that negotiation with my colleagues because I'm negotiating on behalf of the people of regional Australia who've clearly expressed to me that they want something done about this and I'm going in to bat on their behalf to try and do something about it. And I'll tell what right now, $100 million is too high. So there you go: there's your answer.

EMMA ALBERICI: So your proposal or suggestion puts at risk free trade agreements that were signed with the US, ...

BARNABY JOYCE: Oh, no it doesn't.

EMMA ALBERICI: ... with Singapore, with Thailand. When you were in government, they were signed by John Howard.

BARNABY JOYCE: Not necessarily. Not necessarily.

EMMA ALBERICI: And they have thresholds that are significantly higher. As you mentioned yourself, the US threshold is $1 billion. In fact the Prime Minister is currently in South Korea where there is a free trade agreement also being negotiated with Australia that would see the threshold level at the same level as the US: $1 billion.

BARNABY JOYCE: Well, not necessarily, Emma. There are a number of ways to skin this cat and we can go about it.

What I could pose to you, Emma, is this: Emma, you go to the United States of America and see if you can buy $1 billion worth of farmland and see how you go. Try actually, Emma, to buy $100 million worth of farmland. In fact, Emma, try to buy $10 million worth of farmland and see how you go. The issue of reciprocity is loud and clear that these places quite obviously protect their people ...

EMMA ALBERICI: Well we have a free trade agreement so assumedly it goes both ways, doesn't it?

BARNABY JOYCE: Well - well, it doesn't, Emma. That's the whole point. And this is the sort of information we have to get out to the Australian people. No, it absolutely does not go both ways.

In fact on the argument of reciprocity, let's go through it, because let's dispense this argument of parochialism and somehow that I'm some sort of form of xenophobe. You can't buy agricultural land in China, you can't buy agricultural land in Japan, you can't buy agricultural land where the Prime Minister is at the moment in South Korea, you can't buy it in Indonesia without a majority ownership by Indonesians.

You have vast restrictions on you purchasing it in the United States of America, you have vast restrictions placed on you even in New Zealand, one of our closest allies.

In fact, Emma, you take me to a place in the globe where you can buy it like you can buy it in Australia and I will buy you a slab of beer and we can sit under a bridge tonight and drink it.

The reality is, Emma, that we have one of the most open trading mechanisms in the world and long may it remain thus. But we must protect our national interest in a more formidable way than we have been because that is the aspiration and the desire of the Australian people and the desire of the Australian people must be respected.

EMMA ALBERICI: Let's turn to Tony Abbott's latest policy announcement. Do you think it's a good idea for the Government to be paying families for the cost of nannies?

BARNABY JOYCE: Well, I think it's extremely important that, Emma, if you decide to have a child, which is what the nation asks of you - I can't, my wife can, but I can't no matter how hard I try, because what I've seen lately, blokes can't have kids.

But it's very important that we support women in their aspiration to have a child and to come back into the workforce in the financial form that they exited it for to have the child. We must make sure that they can maintain their house payments, maintain their car payments and supported in the process of bringing up a child and a raising a child.

It is the greatest investment in our nation is our nation's children and we have to put greater focus on it, Emma, because otherwise people will do what they're doing at the moment and that is in many cases not having kids or having one child. And someone is going to support you, Emma, and support me in our dotage. And if it's not our kids, then whose kids are going to be supporting us?

EMMA ALBERICI: Now Andrew Robb, the chairman of the Coalition's policy development committee, says the Coalition in government would reverse the nanny state, and yet here you are saying the state should pay for nannies. You're committed to shrinking the government sector and this policy doesn't seem to do that.

BARNABY JOYCE: Well, what Andrew Robb - and Andrew Robb and I are good mates. What Andrew's saying quite clearly is this idea, this policy inflection that's come from the Greens, which everything is outlawed or - you know.

Everything has become absolutely impossible to do. You know, if a coconut falls on your head, it's apparently the council's fault or the tree's fault, it's somebody's fault. There's no such thing as bad luck. We can't build a dam anymore because it's all impossible. It's too difficult.

Everything - every time we try to make a decision to take our nation forward, to build something constructive, there is someone who stands up and says that that affects the way they see the world and therefore we can't do it.

And they get garlands of roses thrown at their feet in Canberra, but what happens in the regions such as Queensland is you get voted out of office and the Labor Party have seen that tonight.

So, if you want to get away from the nanny state, get away from Green policies that just drag you into oblivion. And as soon as the Labor Party works that and drops crazy ideas, just dippy, loopy ideas such as the carbon tax, well the better off they will be and maybe they'll have a chance of rebuilding. But if all they want to do is come up and visit us, then stay at home and send us a postcard.

EMMA ALBERICI: Senator Joyce, thank you very much for joining us tonight.

BARNABY JOYCE: Always a pleasure, Emma.