Torte de Lini Profile Joined September 2010 Germany 7680 Posts #6761 On December 01 2016 21:29 cesc wrote:

Is there a way to have these guides set as default when loading into a game?



I've been using these since the hero guide system was introduced.



Thanks Torte de Lini!



http://tortedelini.com/dota-2-guide-bookmarklets/



As the poster quoted above. Use this tool to auto-subscribe to all the guides.



Thank you for using them (: As the poster quoted above. Use this tool to auto-subscribe to all the guides.Thank you for using them (: https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)

Torte de Lini Profile Joined September 2010 Germany 7680 Posts #6763 This latest update and hero builds changes was made possible thanks to the feedback and knowledge of the following community members. Sincere thank you to: Pontual, Irevall



19.20% of last month's unique players [13,177,017] are subscribed to the our highest subscribed guide: Sven Guide





Sven Guide Treant Protector (1,009,470)



Treant Protector (1,009,470) Sniper (Core/Mid) (1,005,508)



Sniper (Core/Mid) (1,005,508) Oracle (Support) (1,002,505) recently hit the 1 million mark





Oracle (Support) (1,002,505) recently hit the 1 million mark Two guides are currently swimming towards the 1 million mark: , https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)

Torte de Lini Profile Joined September 2010 Germany 7680 Posts #6764 ok https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)

Pontual Profile Joined October 2016 Brazil 3038 Posts Last Edited: 2016-12-12 12:03:33 #6765 yeah, something just happened.



If I may ask mr. Torte, will you test every reasonable build out there on every hero to make the best build guide all over again or will you update the builds with what people seem to think it's good without testng? I mean, the latter seems more likeable, and maybe the only possible in a such short notice

Torte de Lini Profile Joined September 2010 Germany 7680 Posts Last Edited: 2016-12-12 15:44:44 #6766 On December 12 2016 20:54 Pontual wrote:

yeah, something just happened.



If I may ask mr. Torte, will you test every reasonable build out there on every hero to make the best build guide all over again or will you update the builds with what people seem to think it's good without testng? I mean, the latter seems more likeable, and maybe the only possible in a such short notice



You can just call me Torte.



Haven't decided what I'll do about the builds - need to see how the new in-game system works and if I really want to take on this much of a revision to all the guides. You can just call me Torte.Haven't decided what I'll do about the builds - need to see how the new in-game system works and if I really want to take on this much of a revision to all the guides. https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)

Sn0_Man Profile Joined October 2012 Tebellong 31461 Posts Last Edited: 2016-12-12 15:45:49 #6767 curious what the plan is for talents?



Actually you probably don't even know if the guide UI is going to be updated to include them or what



dammit mr edits Moderator SCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302

Pontual Profile Joined October 2016 Brazil 3038 Posts #6768 Yeah, the new tree system doesn't enable too many different builds, maybe few support heroes can be carrys or something but nothing radical. But there's also items changes and heroes balancing. And probably new jungle system will change farm patterns and efficiency for a lot of heroes

Sn0_Man Profile Joined October 2012 Tebellong 31461 Posts #6769 people will want somebody to decide A or B for them though Moderator SCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302

Meta Profile Joined June 2003 United States 158 Posts #6770 It seems like Valve intends for community created guides to continue to exist in-game based on what I saw in the test client yesterday. I subscribe to many of your builds and I hope that you will put in the work to update them. It seems like the pre-existing builds will be sufficient for most heroes, with the addition of the four talent choices.



Thanks for all the work that you've put into this project in the past couple of years. The impact that your guides have made on the quality of matches is truly immeasurable. Pure, immaculate, clean, omnicidal god machine

Sn0_Man Profile Joined October 2012 Tebellong 31461 Posts Last Edited: 2016-12-12 20:46:35 #6771 The way items are presented for example seems significantly different as well in the new version so we'll see.



It's a lot of guides to consider reworking and it seemed kinda like valve made most of the default ones a bit better. Moderator SCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302

Logo Profile Joined April 2010 United States 4568 Posts Last Edited: 2016-12-12 20:49:13 #6772 They're a bit better for now maybe, but give it 6 months and people time to adjust to the patch and they'll probably be awful again unless they decide to support the guides this time. Logo

Sn0_Man Profile Joined October 2012 Tebellong 31461 Posts #6773 On December 13 2016 05:48 Logo wrote:

They're a bit better for now maybe, but give it 6 months and people time to adjust to the patch and they'll probably be awful again unless they decide to support the guides this time.

of course

it does make it harder for torte to justify redoing 130 guides single-handedly though of courseit does make it harder for torte to justify redoing 130 guides single-handedly though Moderator SCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302

Torte de Lini Profile Joined September 2010 Germany 7680 Posts Last Edited: 2016-12-22 15:20:39 #6774 7.00/7.01 Planning Post

Personal Notes Monkey King

New Hero Monkey King looks to be a lot of fun and interactive with the environment. Looking forward to trying him.



Role: Safe Lane, maybe Offlane



Off the bat for items: Attack Speed is needed and early mana: PMS, Echo Sabre, Shadow Blade, Ring of Aquila, Infused Raindrop, Magic Wand, Manta or S&Y, BKB, Silver Edge, Abyssal Blade, Desolator, Diffusal Blade, Phase Boots, Mjolnnir (for offlane/Treads for Safe Lane)



Off the bat for abilities: Max Q first, E second, value point in each before 6



Combo: W -> W (D) -> Q -> Get E Proc' -> Ult



Q is based on MK's basic attack



Passive procs after 4 attacks + works on Q and goes through BKB



Does passive work with illusions (or do they get bonus damage if your passive procs and you use Manta Style)



Some suggest Monkey King can mid - but I don't see how he can do it



relevant Monkey King discussion



New HUD



I am a fan of minimalism



Top Bar lacks some presentation



Mini-Map looks better, will have to make it larger



Targeting allies via portraits helps a lot for idiots like me



Access Settings in-game is a welcomed addition - I notice the guides button is no longer in-game though, very unfortunate



One-Click Level Up is a long overdue change that League of Legends adopted years ago



New Unit Query Panel seems silly as clicking on enemies or allies never really affected your own hero's actions as the game knew to revert back to your hero when you made a move command



Mana Cost Items + Custom Hero Interface is a nice touch. I wonder if Silencer has a spot stating he steals INT permanently or they're going to keep it as some 24/7 buff



Recommended Items has me worried



Pregame



Very nice



I have a feeling Valve will stop adding heroes after both rows are filled. I hope they do to be honest.



Strategy Phase is very appreciated. Guides load before the game and purchase + strategy map is a dream come true. I personally love it



New Gameplay



Talent Trees - kind of annoying for hero builds. Now I have to decide when a person should get a point in their talent tree (sometimes impossible) and dictate which perk is overall better (even more impossible as the patch extends and gets balanced to make both perks situationally valuable choices...)



As a player, I like the idea as it relieved IceFrog from having to buff then alternative nerf heroes on and off just to compensate for metas and how the games shift in favour of one strategy over another. Also allows more flexibility on heroes to be played differently and have the perks both orient players in what they should be steering themselves towards or where the hero lacks most.



Ultimate levels 6/12/18 + Reworked XP + Respawn Timetable + Gold Bounty + Death Cost Reworked + Hero Kill XP + AOE Gold are all changes that were long overdue, but didn't have the foundation to follow-through on it. It was tried once before and took a long time for it to work out, Bounty cheers, good times.



Backpack is great - supports have less to sacrifice. I can activate TP and still keep all 6 of my items. A bit worried that it might obligate users to learn how to quick-switch before a battle. A bit tedious...



Roshan tired of making Deso a justified purchase



Shrine is great to hinder pushes to both towers or to give some advantage to the team's jungle even when it isn't warded. Does Shrine's AOE affect everyone once activated or it generates a single-AOE effect to everyone within from the moment its activated and follows the 'holder'



Bounty Rune for Offlane + Junglers, how swell. Supports getting a lot of free leverage lately.



Jungle is worrisome, probably won't affect most staple junglers (Doom, Ursa, Lifestealer, LC)



Neutral respawn timings is something to get used to. How will it affect pulling in the lanes is my biggest interest. Must stack at the 0:30-1 Mark to survive during the 1-3 mark and keep up the pulls.



New Ancient looks like someone had sex with Dazzle and a goat



Prowler Shaman seems OP for Doom ultra-mega-stunner/rooter



Valve pushing the early game to be shorter, mid-game to be more diverse and late-game to happen earlier and last much longer



Illusions: Good-bye Phantom Lancer - flawed carry that won't survive



Root Mechanics are nice, but don't hinder or interrupt any real escape-mechanics like Blink. interesting to see how it will change heroes like Treant at least



I don't get Dispel. Gotta test it



Turn rate is appreciated - short turns take longer, full 180s are improved



Juxtapose getting Pseudo-RD is lol



Searing Chains revealing invis. units feels right, almost like it should have always been that



Hero Changes



Create Abaddon Support - Make Default Offlane



Create Abaddon Support - Make Default Offlane Remove AA Core



AM Scepter is a cute idea - slightly cheaper but you lose damage from Linken's for a 1-second shorter CD, can you get both and is it worth it? haha



AM Scepter is a cute idea - slightly cheaper but you lose damage from Linken's for a 1-second shorter CD, can you get both and is it worth it? haha Arc Warden losing more of its identity



Arc Warden losing more of its identity Maybe Batrider jungle build



Maybe keep/del Middle version [be sure to convert Mid. version to Jungle and del. Jungle if you decide to delete



50% of BH's talents suck dick



50% of BH's talents suck dick Broodmother talents are an easy choice



Broodmother talents are an easy choice CK's Aghanim's is interesting - CD is still high but still.



CK's Aghanim's is interesting - CD is still high but still. Cute Aghs, definitely worth once in a blue moon of a good gmae



Cute Aghs, definitely worth once in a blue moon of a good gmae Too bad on WoR not dealing damage - was definitely very strong



Too bad on WoR not dealing damage - was definitely very strong Is -6s Poison Touch cooldown even worth it? Means 1 second slows non-stop but mana is an issue and you are really reliant on keeping your team afloat



Is -6s Poison Touch cooldown even worth it? Means 1 second slows non-stop but mana is an issue and you are really reliant on keeping your team afloat lol



lol op talent tree



op talent tree meh



meh Enchatress Offlane build?



nice touch



nice touch convert one build to offlane/missile (probably mid -> offlane)



convert one build to offlane/missile (probably mid -> offlane) hopefully valve will fix the cloud server version to match



hopefully valve will fix the cloud server version to match disappointing



disappointing can still jungle



can still jungle disappointing talent tree



disappointing talent tree convert Core to Offlane ver.



please make me a ganker, I am tired of attacking towers



please make me a ganker, I am tired of attacking towers Aghs delayed? Adjusted Earthbind description



Aghs delayed? Adjusted Earthbind description Level 25 talent perk seems strange. Do you do triple damage if you cast this at melee range on an enemy?



Level 25 talent perk seems strange. Do you do triple damage if you cast this at melee range on an enemy? Offlane/Aether Lens version?



Offlane/Aether Lens version? consider Offlane version



New Aghs sucks in comparison, Death Pulse mix with Sadist feels strange. Ghost Shroud is very cool, BKB may be obligatory if it doesn't purge your ethereal (probably does), Necrophos an even harder carry + Meka holder. Blink and Blade Mail are more core options also (Blade Mail currently situational). Pipe also a decent option too



New Aghs sucks in comparison, Death Pulse mix with Sadist feels strange. Ghost Shroud is very cool, BKB may be obligatory if it doesn't purge your ethereal (probably does), Necrophos an even harder carry + Meka holder. Blink and Blade Mail are more core options also (Blade Mail currently situational). Pipe also a decent option too nice



nice Delete Core version



Max Phantom Rush second



Max Phantom Rush second lol



lol Adjust to an Offlane version



Add Aghs to Extension Items, consider a Core version



Add Aghs to Extension Items, Add Aghs



Add Aghs adjust aghs description



adjust aghs description double-check skills + itemization



double-check skills + itemization Delete Core Version



Check Aghs description, Adjust core versions extension Items



Check Aghs description, Adjust core versions extension Items remove Core - Middle version (maybe)



make more offlane/support (wards and less items)



make more offlane/support (wards and less items) check itemization



check itemization complete rework



complete rework Iron Talon or QB in early game



Iron Talon or QB in early game Maybe delete Mid version



maybe revert back to OOV instead of QB/jungling. Skills need to be reworked. Potential carry build (haha)



maybe revert back to OOV instead of QB/jungling. Skills need to be reworked. kill core - mid version



Rework Pit Lord's skill build. Keep Support version , consider Atos + Eul's integration



Rework Pit Lord's skill build. , consider Atos + Eul's integration be aware of core/carry potential mainstream use



kill core version



change Core - Safe Lane to Offlane ver.



maybe Zeus support version



Item Changes



Aether Lens even more valuable



Bottle to be considered on Junglers and Offlaners (some)



Healing Salve back on the menu for Jungers/Offlaners



Crimson Guard works on Towers - note on current build descriptions



Diffusal Blade desc. changes



Drum of Endurance seems good, always felt the charges were awkward. Losing Attack speed sucks though, Cost is still pretty high. Consider on roaming supports: VS, CM, Ogre, WD, etc.



Double check Skadi description on heroes



Heart OP



Heaven's Halberd still too expensive even with Talisman of Evasion cost



Helm of the Dominator: Will have to change Sven & Troll Warlord - will have to rethink of its applicability. The biggest mystery of this patch for me



Iron Talon: Just means to sell earlier I believe for builds. Going to need to keep an eye on this - definitely reduces its value



Mask of Madness: Sniper + Sven validity right off the bat. Drow ranger? Legion? Luna (cooldown of her Q might not make it as good), Phantom Assassin (might not be as good given low cooldown of Q), Ursa or back to Vlads? Wraith King



Necro 3: ?? Will have to keep track



Octarine Core reviewed on heroes who need mana regen (e.g.: Skywrath)



Rod of Atos back for AA, Skywrath, maybe Ogre?



double-check Satanic on all builds, revert to Heart if necessary (e.g.: Sven)



wind lace starting items for Ogre + Treant needs to be relooked at



Misc.



Worried about what will happen about the Hero Builds Cloud Server. All guides are now invalid and I fear they might wipe everything or still not improve the system of filtering (outdated builds vs. new better builds + decay system). We will see... there is a chance I stop here depending on the outcome.





A user asked me to archive all the builds for posterity before I update to 7.00, it's been posted on /r/herobuilds with a downloadable link. A personal copy will be kept on my external harddrive.





2017: Current Patreon funds will be used to pay out selected long-time contributors (will send follow-up regarding missing paypal accounts). Waiting on accountant to tell me if it is better to cash-out in US or International. Also if better to cash-out in 2016 tax year or 2017 tax year (January)



2017: Remaining funds after distribution will be dedicated to create a fully-fledged Hero Builds website and future goals (left-column). As always no funds are used or stored for personal gain or interest









Actual Schedule (CET)

Day 1

- 4PM-12:30AM: Reading Patch Notes, Personal Notes posted, Listened to SirActionSlacks/Bulba/SunsFan + Bulldog + Khezu reactions



Day 2

- 3-6:30PM: Finalizing personal notes

- 6:30-7:30: Dinner

- 7:30-9:00: Hero/Item First Look, Highlighting new builds to create (3) and builds to remove (5-6)

- 9:00-10:30: Archiving 6.88 Hero Builds



Day 3

- 2-4PM: Collected and tested the new hero build features

- 4:30-5: Lunch

- 5-7:00: Drafted and published Monkey King Hero Builds (Core & Offlane)

- 7:00-8:00: Dinner

- 8:00-10:30: Responding to user deedback and



Day 4

- 1-4:30PM: Started Draft Patch 7.00 - Part 1

- 5:30-7:30: Completed Draft Patch 7.00 - Part 1

- 7:30-11:30: Responding to User Feedback and



Day 5

- 8-11AM: Started Applied Changes - Part 1

- 11AM-12:30PM: Lunch

- 12:30-5PM: Continuation of Applied Changes - Part 1

- 5-6:30PM: Dinner

- 6:30PM-1AM: Continuation of Applied Changes - Part 1



Day 6

- 3PM-11:30: Continuation of Applied Changes - Part 1



Day 7

- 8-11AM: Bug Testing for Patch 7.01

- 12:30PM-2AM: Continuation of Applied Changes - Part 1



Day 8

- 11:00AM-3:30PM: Continuation of Applied Changes - Part 1

- 3:30- : Title Adjustment (7.00 -> 7.01) and Appendix Title Update



Total Elapsed Time: 70 Hours











New color for patch 7.00 (Beige-Orange) - 4PM-12:30AM: Reading Patch Notes, Personal Notes posted, Listened to SirActionSlacks/Bulba/SunsFan + Bulldog + Khezu reactions- 3-6:30PM: Finalizing personal notes- 6:30-7:30: Dinner- 7:30-9:00: Hero/Item First Look, Highlighting new builds to create (3) and builds to remove (5-6)- 9:00-10:30: Archiving 6.88 Hero Builds- 2-4PM: Collected and tested the new hero build features- 4:30-5: Lunch- 5-7:00: Drafted and published Monkey King Hero Builds (Core & Offlane)- 7:00-8:00: Dinner- 8:00-10:30: Responding to user deedback and testing hero build issues - 1-4:30PM: Started Draft Patch 7.00 - Part 1- 5:30-7:30: Completed Draft Patch 7.00 - Part 1- 7:30-11:30: Responding to User Feedback and Testing Hero Build Issues - 8-11AM: Started Applied Changes - Part 1- 11AM-12:30PM: Lunch- 12:30-5PM: Continuation of Applied Changes - Part 1- 5-6:30PM: Dinner- 6:30PM-1AM: Continuation of Applied Changes - Part 1- 3PM-11:30: Continuation of Applied Changes - Part 1- 8-11AM: Bug Testing for Patch 7.01- 12:30PM-2AM: Continuation of Applied Changes - Part 1- 11:00AM-3:30PM: Continuation of Applied Changes - Part 1- 3:30- : Title Adjustment (7.00 -> 7.01) and Appendix Title Update https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)

Birdie Profile Joined August 2007 New Zealand 1895 Posts #6775 monkey king destroys any melee mid and maybe destroys ranged mid too



But mostly because he's really broken and OP atm, I'm sure if he gets some well-deserved nerfs then he maybe gets relegated to carry or other. Red classic | A butterfly dreamed he was Zhuangzi | 4.5k, heading to 5k as support!

Belisarius Profile Joined November 2010 Australia 3338 Posts Last Edited: 2016-12-13 19:54:54 #6776 If you haven't already, you should do the usual and make a couple of wukong builds straightaway to suck up subscribers, probably safelane and mid.



I feel like echo is good, and probably eqw into max q or w. Value point in e seems super important for laning against anything you can hit.

Velzi Profile Joined June 2012 Finland 598 Posts #6777 u max e over anything else im pretty sure, damage increase is so strong.



1-1-4 -> 1-4-4 -> 4-4-4 imo Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you to their level and then beat you with experience. http://www.dotabuff.com/players/115305822 https://yasp.co/players/115305822

Torte de Lini Profile Joined September 2010 Germany 7680 Posts Last Edited: 2016-12-21 11:28:22 #6778 Final Total Subscriptions (6.88): 182,203,920



DRAFT Patch 7.00/7.01 Changes - Part 1 (Updating Current Guides)



Unchanged

+ Show Spoiler +















x2



x2

x2





x2









x2









x2

x2

x2x2x2x2x2x2x2







Skill Changes subject to change

Max W + E then Q [change name to Offlane on stats + hub topics: playdota & LD]

Ability descriptions: Add Combo sheet: Q -> W -> R

Add Aghs to Extension Items

Max Gust last, Frost Arrows second

(Offlane): Max E second and W Last. Adjust W description

Remove Invoker skill, adjust everything moving one skill over. Monitor this hero

Max Heartstopper Aura second, value point pre-6 for Ghost Shroud (Adjust descriptions) [change to Core - Subtitle: Middle]

Max Phantom Rush second (adjust descriptions)

Q W W E Q R Q Q W W

Q E W W W R W E E E (adjust descriptions)

Max Q, Max E, max W last (adjust descriptions + consider combo)

Q W E E E R E Q Q Q (adjust descriptions + consider combo)

Underlord (Support): E W Q Q Q R Q W W W W R, Offlane: Keep as is (adjust descriptions)

Max Maledict, VooDoo ignored til last (no value point)







Item Changes Max W + E then Q [change name to Offlane on stats + hub topics: playdota & LD]Ability descriptions: Add Combo sheet: Q -> W -> RAdd Aghs to Extension ItemsMax Gust last, Frost Arrows second(Offlane): Max E second and W Last. Adjust W descriptionRemove Invoker skill, adjust everything moving one skill over. Monitor this heroMax Heartstopper Aura second, value point pre-6 for Ghost Shroud (Adjust descriptions) [change to Core - Subtitle: Middle]Max Phantom Rush second (adjust descriptions)Q W W E Q R Q Q W WQ E W W W R W E E E (adjust descriptions)Max Q, Max E, max W last (adjust descriptions + consider combo)Q W E E E R E Q Q Q (adjust descriptions + consider combo)Underlord (Support): E W Q Q Q R Q W W W W R, Offlane: Keep as is (adjust descriptions)Max Maledict, VooDoo ignored til last (no value point) subject to change

Arc Warden: Remove Consumable items (utility items), adjust description of ultimate to reflect change

(note that tranquil boots can be put in the backpack to avoid it going on cooldown when hit)

Remove QB, add Blight Stone, Remove S&Y, Move Manta to Situational, Move Echo Sabre to Core, Add Silver Edge to Situational

(note that tranquil boots can be put in the backpack to avoid it going on cooldown when hit)

Remove HOTD, S&Y Extension + Manta Situational

Add Rod of Atos to Situational Items, Remove Ghost Scepter, add Lotus Orb to Situational Items

Remove Drum of Endurance

Remove Helm of the Dominator, get Mask of Madness (after Armlet)

Change LD from Core to Offlane

DO THIS

Add Drum of Endurance to Situational Items, Remove QB, Add Aghs to Extension Items, Remove HOTD

Make more Support-oriented

Removed HOTD, add MoM, moved Armlet to after MoM -> then Blink (adjust descriptions)

Replace Null Talisman with Sobi Mask, Rod of Atos + Glimmer Cape to Situational Items, Remove Octarine Core, Move Eul's to Extension Items (adjust descriptions), Add Ghost Scepter to Situational Items, Blink Dagger (Blink/Force/Ghost queue activation even as your leaping and immediately cast after landing)

Remove Infused Raindrop, Add Iron Talon after Aquila

Change to Support/Lane, Orb of Venom in Starting Items, move Iron Talon to Situational Items, Blink to Core, Remove Aghs (for new guide), Remove Octarine Core, Add Euls + Atos to Extension Items, remove Wind Lace, Glimmer to Situational Items, Lotus Orb to Situational Items

Replace HOTD with Morbid Mask

Underlord: Support - Core: Aether + Rod of Atos. Situational: Vlads, Lotus, Crimson Guard, Extension Items: Eul's, Blade Mail, Blink, Pipe, Greaves, Scythe & Shiva's. Remove Meka. Offlane: Bottle (?) Remove Veil, Add Atos to Situational Items

: Remove MoM, add Morbid Mask

Add Drum of Endurance to Situational Items

Add Drum of Endurance to Situational Items

Change Core - Safe to Offlane: Starting: Observer Ward + Salve + Tango Early Game: (Bottle?) Boots of Speed, Wand, Core: Phase, Blight Stone, Maelstrom, Blink, Aghs. Remove RoB, Atos to Situational Items (Core + Offlane)







New Items Application: Arc Warden: Remove Consumable items (utility items), adjust description of ultimate to reflect change(note that tranquil boots can be put in the backpack to avoid it going on cooldown when hit)Remove QB, add Blight Stone, Remove S&Y, Move Manta to Situational, Move Echo Sabre to Core, Add Silver Edge to Situational(note that tranquil boots can be put in the backpack to avoid it going on cooldown when hit)Remove HOTD, S&Y Extension + Manta SituationalAdd Rod of Atos to Situational Items, Remove Ghost Scepter, add Lotus Orb to Situational ItemsRemove Drum of EnduranceRemove Helm of the Dominator, get Mask of Madness (after Armlet)Change LD from Core to OfflaneAdd Drum of Endurance to Situational Items, Remove QB, Add Aghs to Extension Items, Remove HOTDMake more Support-orientedRemoved HOTD, add MoM, moved Armlet to after MoM -> then Blink (adjust descriptions)Replace Null Talisman with Sobi Mask, Rod of Atos + Glimmer Cape to Situational Items, Remove Octarine Core, Move Eul's to Extension Items (adjust descriptions), Add Ghost Scepter to Situational Items, Blink Dagger (Blink/Force/Ghost queue activation even as your leaping and immediately cast after landing)Remove Infused Raindrop, Add Iron Talon after AquilaChange to Support/Lane, Orb of Venom in Starting Items, move Iron Talon to Situational Items, Blink to Core, Remove Aghs (for new guide), Remove Octarine Core, Add Euls + Atos to Extension Items, remove Wind Lace, Glimmer to Situational Items, Lotus Orb to Situational ItemsReplace HOTD with Morbid MaskUnderlord: Support - Core: Aether + Rod of Atos. Situational: Vlads, Lotus, Crimson Guard, Extension Items: Eul's, Blade Mail, Blink, Pipe, Greaves, Scythe & Shiva's. Remove Meka. Offlane: Bottle (?) Remove Veil, Add Atos to Situational Items: Remove MoM, add Morbid MaskAdd Drum of Endurance to Situational ItemsAdd Drum of Endurance to Situational ItemsChange Core - Safe to Offlane: Starting: Observer Ward + Salve + Tango Early Game: (Bottle?) Boots of Speed, Wand, Core: Phase, Blight Stone, Maelstrom, Blink, Aghs. Remove RoB, Atos to Situational Items (Core + Offlane) subject to change



Mask of Madness: (Core - Safe Lane) (?) (?) (?) (?) (?) (bear) (?) (?) (?) (?) (lol?)



Drum of Endurance: (?)



Helm of the Dominator:



Rod of Atos: Arc Warden Underlord



Bottle/Healing Salve/Clarity: Underlord









Potential New Guides (Part 2) subject to change

Abaddon (Support)

Batrider (Jungle)

Enchantress (Offlane)

Morphling (Support or Offlane?)

Mirana (Support) - Roaming?

Nature's Prophet (Offlane)

Necrophos (Offlane) or (Support)

Omniknight (Core) - Offlane?

Riki (Core) - Safe Lane

Treant Protector (Offlane or Jungle?)

Vengeful Spirit (Core) - Safe Lane

Zeus (Support) - Safe Lane



Potential Guides to be Removed (Part 2) subject to change

Ancient Apparition (Core) 580,943

Bloodseeker (Middle) 880,376

Oracle (Core) 370,349

Shadow Shaman (Core) 189,407

Slark (Core/Mid) 816,147

Tiny (Core/Mid) 1,122,928

Troll Warlord (Core/Mid) 709,753

Warlock (Core) 258,054

Batrider (Jungle)Morphling (Support or Offlane?)Mirana (Support) - Roaming?Omniknight (Core) - Offlane?Riki (Core) - Safe Lane580,943880,376370,349189,407816,147Tiny (Core/Mid) 1,122,928709,753258,054 (Core - Safe Lane) (?)(?)(?)(?)(?)(bear) (?)(?)(?)(?)(lol?)(?)Arc WardenUnderlordUnderlord https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)

Sn0_Man Profile Joined October 2012 Tebellong 31461 Posts Last Edited: 2016-12-14 17:31:48 #6779 I'm not sure I agree with new techies



His only real application right now is to abuse his new fake suicide in lane (300 damage level 1 xd). At the very least you have to take it at level 1. Especially because his new mines take more than 3 seconds to hit a hero and as such will literally never function in lane, I believe the correct skilling order is along the lines of e/w/e/q/q/r/q/q/w/w/w etc. Your goal is to abuse suicide in lane to establish dominance, then transition to mining off-map with ult and using Q to farm jungle (750 damage in aoe is pretty good for farming). Get to aghs and then abuse the fact that you don't need ult to farm, so you can farm with Q and still put up ult traps pretty fast.



I don't think techies can solo anymore because he needs a buddy to make sure his suicide is a real threat early (he has no real way to soften up enemies with mines being so useless now). So he's like a dual offlane or safelane hero. he doesn't really need to take farm since he jungles so fast after a few level's in Q but he needs XP desperately.



Just some thoughts. Atos would be the nuts on techies if he didn't need more mana regen than virtually any other hero.



For drow, I don't see why you'd get desolater. Frost Arrows is still a Unique Attack Modifier and flat damage doesn't scale well on drow



Personally i'm convinced that CK should be a support now (or have a support guide) with the new aghs combined with how his new abilities work but that's up to you. Build is something like windlace oov manaboots -> disassemble for aether -> aghs. Maybe drums in there.



With respect to "potential new guides" i'm really not a fan of riki core, batrider jungle, farming tree or support zeus. Moderator SCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302

CosmicSpiral Profile Joined December 2010 United States 4404 Posts Last Edited: 2016-12-14 18:39:36 #6780



Atos on mid Leshrac also feels great. Easy setup into stun for solo ganks and partially substitutes for Bloodstone.



Mid Visage feels dope right now. Either you do Lil's build (Medallion -> Midas -> Aghs -> SC) or you immediately upgrade Medallion and get Deso in sync with his +50 damage at 15. He effortlessly snowballs out of control unless you are awful with using familiars.Atos on mid Leshrac also feels great. Easy setup into stun for solo ganks and partially substitutes for Bloodstone. On December 15 2016 02:23 Sn0_Man wrote:

Personally i'm convinced that CK should be a support now (or have a support guide) with the new aghs combined with how his new abilities work but that's up to you. Build is something like windlace oov manaboots -> disassemble for aether -> aghs. Maybe drums in there.



With the change to Reality Rift, Medallion is very appealing. As a support, Medallion + Drums offers more than Aether. With the change to Reality Rift, Medallion is very appealing. As a support, Medallion + Drums offers more than Aether. Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muß man schweigen.

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