No one in any country should have to live with the specter of gun violence. We’ve seen how it wreaks havoc, not just in America, but abroad as well. Just last week, 50 people were killed and 50 more wounded after a right-wing terrorist attacked a mosque in Christchurch, New Zealand. Days after the shooting, New Zealand Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern said the government would reform their gun laws. That’s a stark contrast from the United States, where gun violence is, distressingly, sometimes met with little more than “thoughts and prayers” rather than action from politicians. That has to change.

BAZAAR.com sat down with Shannon Watts, the founder of Moms Demand Action for Gun Sense in America, about what we can all do to break away from the National Rifle Association’s influence on politicians, to institute common sense gun reform in our own country.

BAZAAR.com: Tell me a bit about your background. Did you grow up in a house with guns?

Shannon Watts: My dad had hunting rifles which had been passed down to him from his father. I grew up in upstate New York which is a conservative part of the country. Both of my grandfathers were hunters and WWII veterans so I did grow up around guns.

HB: How did you go from there to pushing for an end to gun violence in America?

SW: I never really thought of gun violence as an American until I was living in Texas when the Luby’s massacre happened [in which 23 people were killed at a café]. It wasn’t too long after 24-hour news cycle started. Because I was a college student, I was able to watch TV during the afternoon and it was so upsetting to me and so shocking to me that this could happen in America, in a restaurant, in a state where I was living. And that was really the first experience I had of being impacted even secondhand by gun violence. After college I got married and had kids really young. So when Columbine happened I remembered thinking “surely, something will happen. This is a horrible thing. It’s bizarre that we’re allowing this to happen.” I had three kids under the age of five and I was a full-time working mom. And then again when Virginia Tech happened. And then the Gabby Giffords shooting. And each time I thought, “okay, someone will do something.”

I should acknowledge that obviously I was living in a bubble as a white suburban woman. I was not realizing that a hundred Americans are shot and killed in this country every day. Most of that is either city gun violence or rural gun suicide. But I took a break from working for about five years when my kids were elementary through high school age. After Sandy Hook happened, I was doing laundry, and I looked for something like Mothers Against Drunk Driving [for guns]. I was sure it already existed. I thought, “okay, I’ll join that.” And I couldn’t find anything. I was not a social media phenom. I had 75 Facebook friends. I didn’t even have a Twitter handle then. But I started a Facebook page about this, thinking, “I’ll have a conversation with other women and moms.”

" I was living in a bubble as a white suburban woman."

Social media can be like lightning in a bottle. Women started Googling me. They found my phone number. All my information was online. They started calling and telling me they wanted to be involved in this. So, what was supposed to be an online conversation became an offline movement. We’ve been doing this now for over six years. It’ll be seven years this December. And we have a chapter in every state. We have hundreds of thousands of volunteers. I’m a full-time volunteer. We have nearly 6 million supporters. We’ve become the largest grassroots movement in the country.

HB: Was there blowback after the formation of the group in 2012?

SW: The blowback was swift. I started to get death threats, and threats of sexual violence against me and my kids. As I said, all my information was online. I was super naive. I did not know this underbelly of America even existed. I just thought, “Surely we can all agree that our nation is broken. We’re the only nation where this is happening, and the pundits on my TV are saying the solution is more guns.” Right away I started getting all the threats and started to call the police. It was a weird time.

HB: In the past few years, have you seen the influence of gun advocacy groups like the NRA waning?

SW: Absolutely. We have said all along that our goal is to shine a flashlight under the refrigerator and watch the cockroaches run out. Nobody has done that with the NRA. Before our organization started, they were doing all these insidious things at the state and federal level that no one really talked about. And we wanted to talk about it every single day. Share pictures of it. Share the impact of it. People need to understand what’s happening where they live.

"Our goal is to shine a flashlight under the refrigerator and watch the cockroaches run out."

For example, laws like permit-less carry. The NRA has been trying very hard and has been pretty successful at passing laws that allow people to carry loaded handguns with no permit, no training, and, in the states where background checks aren’t required, no background checks. So, we started that right away. I think a good example is that we’ve tried to make open carry part of the American vernacular. I didn’t know that was legal when I started Moms Demand Action. But in 45 states, you can walk around with a, in some cases, loaded semiautomatic rifle or handgun completely visible and do things like go into a Starbucks and order a latte. And people do that. When we’d share these pictures, other people couldn’t believe that was legal where they lived. It’s putting a spotlight on things like that, things that the NRA is doing that has made their reputation become very toxic.

HB: This may require some speculation on our parts, but what do you think makes someone want to walk into a Starbucks with a loaded semi-automatic? Do you think there’s anything we can do to combat that sense of fear?

SW: The vast majority of gun owners are responsible gun owners. Only one in 10 belongs to the NRA. The NRA used to be a somewhat moderate organization. In 1999 they were against guns in schools and they were for background checks. But what happened was that their demographic began phasing out, which is to say they were older, white men. And they were not able to sell guns at the rate they wanted to. Looking at the future they realized they would have to broaden their market to maintain their profit margins. That meant selling guns to women, inculcating children—that’s really what putting guns on college campuses is all about—it’s inculcating the next generation to believe this is all just part of American culture. And their leadership has become so radicalized in the last decade in order to sell more guns. That is their whole purpose. They are a lobby organization.

But right now for the first time ever they are reputationally underwater in polling. It’s the worst impression Americans have had of them in the past 20 years. They basically disappeared during the midterms. They’re under investigation for ties to Russia. They’ve had to take down their ratings. Lawmakers don’t necessarily want to be associated with them. In 2014, several democrats like Mark Pryor and Heidi Heitkamp voted with the NRA on the Toomey-Manchin bill to expand background checks, thinking that they could take that vote in a somewhat conservative state, and would then get the NRA’s support when they ran for re-election. The NRA did just the opposite. They sank thousands of dollars into the opponent's campaign. There are no democratic senators left who voted against Toomey-Manchin. With friends like the NRA who needs enemies? I think that’s helped democrats make a really obvious decision which is, “Why would we align ourselves with the gun lobby?” I think even Republicans are starting to see that whether it’s because 90 percent of their constituents support stronger gun laws, or because of the NRA’s behavior on NRA TV, all of it is creating a toxic stew for the NRA.

HB: It’s great to hear how many Americans are in favor of gun laws at a time when this issue can seem so divisive. Do you think that an organization like yours can get through to Republican voters, many of whom are still strongly pro-gun?

SW: I think we can. We’re not a partisan organization. We spend a lot of time working both sides of the aisle. We have a great grassroots army on the ground who are constantly meeting with our lawmakers. When we look at last year, which was our most successful year ever in terms of passing stronger gun laws, in nine of those states, the laws were signed by Republican governors. If you look at the Republicans we’re talking with—Larry Hogan from Maryland and John Kasich—they seem to have had a change of heart and mind. If you have two Republicans who are seemingly good on this issue, it really leaves Donald Trump as the only potential candidate who opposes. That is because he got a $30 million investment from the NRA.

With HR8, the house on background check bill, it was introduced by five Republicans and five Democrats. In some races, like Pennsylvania 1, both the Republican and Democratic candidate had the Moms Demand Action Gun Sense distinction. It is growing and it is possible.

HB: Are there still challenges?

SW: There’s a Republican state lawmaker in Tennessee who agreed to meet with us. He doesn’t share our views, but [meeting with people] is what you’re supposed to do when you’re a lawmaker. And the NRA has now put a picture of him on their Facebook page basically saying that he betrayed them. And he’s fighting back on Twitter saying, of course I meet with my constituents. So now the NRA is deriding Republicans for meeting with moms at the statehouse.

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I appreciate it whenever anyone makes the effort to drive three hours to visit with me, and I do my best to meet with everyone who does. https://t.co/3sGLAtbAXQ — Brian Kelsey (@BrianKelsey) March 13, 2019

HB: What about people who say they love their guns for hunting?

SW: Many of our volunteers are gun owners. We have no issue with responsible gun ownership. But because we have this gun lobby in this country, they’ve essentially worked to strip all responsibility that goes along with gun rights. We are just working to restore that. We have a group in the Midwest who call themselves the Camo-Moms because they’re hunting volunteers who want to demand action.

"We have no issue with responsible gun ownership."

HB: Are there lessons we could take from places like Australia or Japan that could work in America?

SW: Australia and Japan are a bit different from us, but you can look at countries like Sweden or Israel, countries that already have a lot of guns in their country, they have very low levels of gun violence. And the reason for that is because they also have very strong gun laws that accompany gun ownership. When we look at flaws in our own country, I think Missouri is a very important example. Missouri had very strong gun laws, and high rates of gun ownership. And then the state legislature make-up changed. They undid all of those good gun laws and gun homicides and gun suicides went through the roof. They’ve spiked exponentially. So we have the data. We have the research. It’s almost like global warming: you can’t argue that stronger gun laws don’t work. You can argue that you don’t want them. But you can’t argue that it’s not a solution.

HB: What about Chicago? Gun advocates often remark that despite the strong gun laws in that state, gun violence persists.

SW: As a former Hoosier from Indiana, our volunteers would go to events in Illinois and say, “We’re sorry our guns are going into your state.” And Illinois moms would go to Indiana events and say, “Keep your guns out of our state.” The majority of crime guns used in Chicago come from Indiana. Drive 30 minutes and you can fill up your car with guns from a gun show and then drive right back over and sell those guns because Indiana’s gun laws are so weak—in large part thanks to former Governor Mike Pence. So this idea that a state is an island unto itself is insane. Guns pass over state boundaries as easily as cars do. That’s why we push so hard for federal laws. Yes, our strategy is to go state by state, until we can get congress to do something, but the entire country will be much safer when these laws are made at the federal level.

"Guns pass over state boundaries as easily as cars do. That’s why we push so hard for federal laws."

HB: How is this an issue that affects women and children?

SW: We talk about gun violence being a women’s issue because women are 21 times more likely to be shot and killed than our peers in other nations. The majority of mass shootings begin with domestic gun violence incidents or domestic abusers. There are so many loopholes in gun laws that don’t protect women. A lot of people don’t know about the boyfriend loophole. Federal law does make you a prohibited purchaser if you’re a convicted domestic abuser, but that definition of what an abuser is does not include stalkers or dating partners. It also doesn’t have teeth that allow local law enforcement to remove the guns that an abuser already owns. Something I’m incredibly proud of is that since starting Moms Demand Action, we have passed laws in 28 states that either broaden the definition of what a domestic abuser is and/or give law enforcement the ability to remove the guns that domestic abusers already have.

HB: What about the notion that if someone wants to kill their partner, they can do so with a weapon other than a gun?

SW: We know if women live in a home where there’s a domestic abuse situation they are five times more likely to be murdered if there’s a gun in that home. Guns are one of the most simple and effective ways to kill someone or to kill yourself. That is why Americans are 25 times more likely to die from gun homicide than our peer nations. It’s also why we have such an extremely high rate of gun suicides.

HB: As we look forward to Democratic primaries, are there any candidates you think have an outstanding record on gun reform?

SW: What’s so thrilling is that they basically all support stronger gun laws. Some have made it a major priority of their policy platform. It’s why we endorsed Hillary Clinton during the primary. I’m really eager to see how this is discussed. It comes up in almost every single CNN town hall. Their answers are all strong and good. So many candidates have already started coming to us, and asking if they can come to our events. Julian Castro came to a Moms Demand Action Event. Beto O’Rourke announced at the El Paso Moms Demand Action event. Kamala Harris and Cory Booker have reached out to us. So many seem really motivated to make this part of their platforms.

HB: What about Bernie Sanders and Kirsten Gillibrand, who historically haven’t had such a great record on guns? Do you believe they can evolve?

SW: We are not going to completely un-elect everyone who doesn’t support our position. If we want to make change faster, and time is of the essence when we’re talking about lives being on the line, we have to change hearts and minds. We have to be able to say to someone, “Okay, if you are going to distance yourselves from the gun lobby and you’re going to help pass stronger gun laws, and not be an impediment then welcome! Thank you!” Sometimes that’s hard for people to wrap their minds around. I think Gillibrand has been such an excellent advocate on this. She’s talked about why she changed her mind. I understand what her position was, especially having been born and raised in upstate New York. But I also am so grateful that as a mother she met with other women whose children had been stolen from them because of gun violence. And she talked about that very emotionally, and has stood up and supported laws and change that will make America stronger and the gun lobby weaker.

Bernie Sanders, more recently, has talked about gun safety as an issue. And we’re eager to have him fill out our gun sense questionnaire. In the last election, the midterms, we started something called the gun sense distinction program; we hand out questionnaires and see if candidates deserve our gun sense distinction. That’s what Everytown bases their endorsements on. We thought we’d give out a couple hundred. We gave out over 3,000. From there, we make endorsements. It will definitely be part of the 2020 presidential cycle. We’ll ask all the presidential candidates to fill them out.

HB: What are the bills we should be looking at right now?

SW: It was a huge win in the first 2 years of the Trump presidency that the NRA was not able to pass its two priority pieces of legislation—deregulating silencers and concealed carry reciprocity. They’re still trying to pass those bills, but given that the House is a gun sense majority now, that’s more unlikely to happen. We invested in gun sense candidates and elected over 1,000 across the country. We elected Lucy McBath. She’s a former Moms Demand Action colleague, and she took Newt Gingrich’s seat in Georgia. Five days into this legislative session in congress she co-sponsored HR8, the background checks bill. It was the first piece of gun safety legislation to pass the House in 20 years. The day after, we had the Charleston loophole through the house. There’s the red flag legislation that we’ve seen take off since Parkland, embraced by democrats and Republicans alike.

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Our volunteers descended on Capitol Hill yesterday to show support for a Red Flag law at the federal level. Red Flag laws allow law enforcement & family members to petition a court to temporarily remove guns from people exhibiting warning signs of violence.https://t.co/NkQoyj18wg — Moms Demand Action (@MomsDemand) March 27, 2019

HB: How can an average person get involved?

SW: This is one of those issues where every voice matters. For so long the NRA has told us, “Americans don’t want this.” They’ve made this very vocal minority of gun extremists have all the say on what our gun laws would be. I believe those days are over. But we have to stay vigilant, and we have to keep working on this. Because we have an opportunity to play offense in so many states and also now in congress and to elect even more gun sense candidates in 2020. So getting off the sidelines where you live you can get involved in Moms Demand Action – and it’s not just moms, it’s mothers and others, it’s for all caring Americans – and start putting pressure on your members of congress, particularly your senators to let background checks be voted on and support red flag laws and know that we’ll hold them accountable in 2020.

Jennifer Wright Jennifer Wright is BAZAAR.com's Political Editor at Large.

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