Introduction This is a very important chapter because complacency and false assurance of salvation is a major problem today. We need to care about people and warn them as an act of love. We need to fear the Lord and try to convince people to become committed Christians instead of lukewarm ones. The Bible indicates that the lukewarm church will be rejected.

I have not seen or read a sermon like the one in this chapter anywhere. It appears as if the mainstream have missed many of the most important things. If people shared this report there could be revival. It is important that you read this entire chapter including the positive benefits. While you read this, put aside many of the teachings that you have read or heard before. Assume that much of it has been wrong. This is a logical assumption because the Devil has deceived the majority.

Although this information gives some strong evidence that very few people today are born again, this will probably change very soon. This chapter may encourage such a revival, so it is vital that you read all of it with an open mind. I have yet to meet anyone who demonstrates the signs that should follow every believer.

There is a very good chance that we will be born again in the future if we are not born again today, and that one day we will walk with God like the Apostles. Hopefully this chapter will cause people to repent, be less complacent and search for genuine believers who can lead us to have a better relationship with God. The Bible indicates a future revival, and hopefully we will be part of it. The Bible says Our Time will Be Like Noah and Lot's Time

It must be remembered that in the days of Sodom and Gomorrah there was only one family (Lot's) saved from the cities. Only one person, Lot was recorded as being a godly person from these two cities. In the days of Noah there were only eight people saved in the whole world and they were all from Noah's family. Only one person, Noah was recorded as being a godly person. The other members in his family may not have been saved. The Bible says that it will be similar in our time to the days of Noah and Lot. "Luke 17:26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. 27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. 28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; 29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. 30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed." This verse may be also referring to the percentage of people saved. If so, almost all of the people who think that they are Christians are in for a shock. The Danger of Teaching that there are Millions Saved

We cannot tell how many people are saved in the world today. It is up to God to judge the number and not us. Many people assume that they are certainly saved and there are millions of other people saved, but this is probably deception from the Devil to encourage disobedience, complacency and to prevent people from searching for the truth.

If we teach that there are millions of Christians, people will think that it is fine to imitate others in thinking that they are saved. In actual fact they are probably not saved and not doing God's will. If we made people aware that they may not be saved and that they may have not met a true believer yet, they may be less inclined to follow other so-called lukewarm Christians that they know. Instead they could realize that something is wrong, seek repentance and salvation and start trying to search for God and the true believers. We should only imitate people if they are doing what God wants.

It would be safer to preach that there are very few born again people alive in the world today and that we are probably not born again yet ourselves. Of course this is just a possibility.

Another concern is that if people indicate that they are born again, it could be considered an attitude of pretentiousness in God's sight, when the evidence suggests that they are not. Pride is condemned in the Bible. They could be considered by God to be like the Pharisee in the below passage who thought he was right with God just like those who claim to be born again today. Luke 18:10 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican. 11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men [are], extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. 12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess. 13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as [his] eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. 14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified [rather] than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.

The publican or tax collector was humble and did not claim to be right with God like many today who claim to be definitely born again and on the way to the Kingdom of Heaven. It is therefore much safer to have a humble attitude and assume we may not be born again yet, especially since there is strong evidence that we may not know of anyone alive today who is truly right with God. The danger is that people set the conditions for salvation by their own lives. Often people teach that others will be born again if they have a similar belief to themselves.

You would not expect someone to find something if they imagined that they already had it even though all the evidence suggested that they did not. This is because they would not be looking. People tend to imagine that good things are happening when they are not, for a source of comfort. Many people imagine that their possessions are worth a lot of money, even though they are not. It is therefore a natural thing for people who do not truly know God to imagine that He is in their lives and that they are saved.

Many people teach those who have not found God that God is in their lives and takes care of them. They also teach that God definitely loves all the unsaved, helps them and is pleased with them. This also creates complacency and causes people not to search for God. Despite evidence to the contrary, people continue to believe that they are definitely saved and that God is helping them in the ways that the Bible promises. It is a bit like someone in the middle of a drought who believes that it is raining, even though the ground is bone dry, their crops are wilting and the sky is blue. As a result they do nothing about saving their crops or stock. If they came to grips with reality and stop falsely believing something nice is happening, they could save their crops by irrigating or move their stock. If they don't, their produce will die. Categories of Christians

It is debatable who you would actually call a Christian. People could be considered a Christian because they believe that the Bible is the word of God and claim to be a Christian. However, that does not mean they are a true Christian. Five categories could be considered.

1. A nominal Christian - a person who calls themselves a Christian and believes that the God described in the Bible is the true God. However, they are not obeying God and born again like described in the Bible.

2. A Sunday Christian - someone who regularly goes to a church and believes that the Bible is the word of God. However, they do not practice Christianity outside the church as the Bible commands and are not obeying God, or are born again as described in the Bible.

3. A Bible study Christian - someone who regularly goes to Bible studies and listens to Christian ministries and attends churches. However, they follow the teachings of the mainstream church and the mainstream evangelists, but not necessarily what the Bible truly says. They claim to be born again and led by God. However, they are not obeying God and born again as described in the Bible.

4. Committed Christian - someone who believes in the true interpretation of the Bible. These people are really committed and offer to share the information at truechristianity.com . They have a good chance of being saved. However, there is no hard evidence that they are truly born again or that God is guiding and helping them with their daily needs as explained at truechristianity.com . These people know the truth and how God wants them to obey him. However, on many occasions they fail to practice it, even though they may willfully try to obey God. I know of several genuine people in this category.

5. Truly born again Christian -someone who believes in the true interpretation of the Bible and has hard evidence that God guides and helps them in their daily needs as promised in the Bible. They have a true relationship with God unlike the above categories that probably only imagine that God guides them. These people, with help from God, normally manage to practice what God commands. The apostles fit this category. However, I do not know anyone alive today that has produced the evidence that they are in this category. Hopefully this will change soon. A Noticeable Difference Between Believers and Unbelievers

Scriptures such as Deuteronomy 28 suggest that there should be consistent blessings for the people obeying and walking with God. Nobody that we know has produced the evidence that they have these consistent blessings. The second part of the chapter indicates curses and problems for the people disobeying God and not doing his will. This second part probably describes the lives of everyone that we know because they have not produced any evidence to us to indicate otherwise. Today there is no noticeable difference between the unbelievers and the people who claim to be born again and have their prayers answered. The percentage of desirable outcomes and undesirable problems they receive is similar. The difference between the Godly people in the Bible and the so called Christians today is so huge, it is like the gulf between Heaven and Hell. Today believers live similar lives to unbelievers.

Many people believe that God is definitely working in someone's life if they took the first steps to salvation and their life changed for the better. For example, if they overcame a bad habit. But unbelievers also have times in their life where they dramatically change for the better, while many who claim to be believers experience no significant change in their lives. Some unbelievers are lovely, caring people who would save anyone's life at the expense of their own and volunteer in dangerous situations to help the poor. Other unbelievers have made wonderful discoveries to help people. If these people had accepted Jesus, many would say that they are inspired by God and that He is working in their lives. Godly qualities therefore do not always mean that God is in someone life and that they are saved.

Salvation is not an emotional time where you come to God once and then deliberately disobey him. You can lose your salvation as shown in 2Peter 2:20 -22 and Hebrews 6:4-6. Supernatural Signs

The Apostles were divinely led to make daily decisions and to find what they needed. They had visions. Their prayers were consistently answered and they operated using supernatural gifts such as healing. In my lifetime, I have not seen the miraculous healings and signs that the Apostles regularly manifested. I challenge anyone to provide evidence that they have God's supernatural gifts so that they occur consistently. If you believe that the above things are happening supernaturally today it is vital that you read the chapter titled "A Powerful Challenge to Bring Revival." I challenge anyone to give evidence for his/her claims. If you claim that your prayers make a noticeable difference, please come and visit us so that you can provide the evidence and help people in our area.

This is not about seeking a sign. This is about seeking to be led by God and have a relationship with him. It is also about seeking godly people to have fellowship with so that they can encourage us. God said that we should move in his spirit and desire spiritual gifts (1Cor 14:1). We should not seek a sign by itself. The sign should not be the thing that totally influences us. The most important thing is seeking and obeying God. It is also important to find fellowship with genuine believers who obey God.

The Bible says that there will be certain supernatural signs that accompany those that believe. However, the signs themselves do not necessarily indicate that people are born again (Matthew 7:22). Therefore the Bible warns about only seeking signs by themselves. The Bible says to try or test the spirits (1John 4:1). It also says to be vigilant (1Peter 5:8). Salvation also involves obeying God so it is important that we insure that a person is obeying God and has the fruits before we believe that they are saved.

If people do not believe that signs are important, they deny the power of God. The Bible warns us about people who have a form of Godliness but deny its power. This description fits most of the churches today. "2Tim 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away."

If we completely ignore signs, we are bound to be deceived into believing that unsaved people are saved. Ignoring signs means ignoring evidence. It also means ignoring or removing many Scriptures, which is wrong. We are commanded not to take anything away from the word.

"Mark 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. Luke 10:19 Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you. Matthew 21:21 Jesus answered and said unto them, Verily I say unto you, If ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do this [which is done] to the fig tree, but also if ye shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; it shall be done. 22 And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive. Matthew 17:16 And I brought him to thy disciples, and they could not cure him. 17 Then Jesus answered and said, O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? bring him hither to me. 18 And Jesus rebuked the devil; and he departed out of him: and the child was cured from that very hour. 19 Then came the disciples to Jesus apart, and said, Why could not we cast him out? 20 And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you. 21 Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting."

If people speak in tongues they claim that this is the sign that they are saved, but what about the other signs? That is why we need to keep seeking God and searching. In Philippians 2:12 we are told to "work out your own salvation with fear and trembling." Matthew 10:28 says: ". . . fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in Hell." It is possible that the only born again people in the whole world have supernatural signs and are walking with God like the Apostles? The Need to Find Genuine Believers

Some people say that you don't need to find, work and live with genuine believers to show you how to walk with God or help you do his will. That is a bit like saying that you can learn how to land a specialized aircraft by just getting someone to explain how, without ever seeing the aircraft. Many have tried to go it alone and have not succeeded. They become deceived that God is leading them when He is not, and as a result are led into error. It is psychologically difficult to seek and obey God when you do not know of anyone who has succeeded. Finding someone who successfully has a true relationship with God would motivate us. They would teach us their methods and help us make the correct decisions. It is very difficult for us to practice what God wants us to think in a difficult, ungodly and negative environment. We really need some people who are definitely walking with God to motivate us. The Bible says that we need fellowship with genuine believers.

The Bible promises, that those with the Holy Spirit are able to operate with God's gifts to break curses and cast out demons that prevent us from obeying God. In the Bible demon possession and the casting out of demons was very common. It is therefore likely that almost everybody is either possessed by or seriously affected by them. As a result we are bound to do things we do not wish to do and struggle to obey God. If we can find the true believers who are casting out demons, they could set us free so that we could walk with God. Oppressive circumstances and curses may then not affect us.

If we could find those that could produce the evidence that God is in their lives, you would think that their interpretation of the scriptures would probably be correct and that their life would be right with God. They could help guide the people who wanted to believe the truth but were confused about the correct belief to follow, due to the different scholars interpretations and doctrines that contradict. Prayer Should Make a Difference

The Bible promises that the prayers of those who obey God should make a noticeable difference. The following scriptures also indicate that prayer has a powerful affect. If God does answer your prayers, you should receive a greater percentage of desirable outcomes than could possibly happen naturally to unbelievers. Also you should have a lower percentage of undesirable outcomes than the unrighteous. The difference should be very noticeable to anyone you work with. It should be able to be measured and proven by anyone like it was with the Apostles. People should realize that the outcomes cannot happen naturally or by chance, but instead are divinely inspired. If this cannot be proven, it is probably just imagination, deception or the placebo affect. Therefore the people who claim to be led by God, may not have a relationship with God at all.

"James 5:16 Confess [your] faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much. Matthew 18:19 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven. Matthew 21:22 And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive. 1Peter 4:18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?" If people claim their prayers have a consistently powerful effect, they should be able to easily give the evidence. Because nobody has produced this evidence to us, it could indicate that nobody that we know is considered to have the righteousness of Christ and be born again in God's sight.

Unlike today, supernatural activity consistently occurred all through the Bible. The Bible did not say that this would stop. It would cease at certain times or places, but this is not saying that it will not be occurring anywhere in the world. The scripture at 1Cor 13:8 probably indicates that gifts will cease or fail in churches because they are disobeying God.

The Apostles were using God's power in the name of Jesus to consistently set people free, but where is that consistency today? For Jesus and the Apostles healings were widespread. "Matthew 9:35 And Jesus went about all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every sickness and every disease among the people. Luke 9:6 And they departed, and went through the towns, preaching the gospel, and healing every where. Matthew 10:1 And when he had called unto [him] his twelve disciples, he gave them power [against] unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease. "

Jesus said his chosen people would do greater things than he did. "John 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater [works] than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. " I don't know of anyone that even does anything like Jesus did let alone greater things.

If supernatural healings occur consistently today where are the medical records? You would think that they would indicate supernatural healings or healings at a higher rate than would happen naturally.

You may claim that prayers are answered, but it could be a natural occurrence as well, and what about the majority of prayers that are not answered? In the Bible the people of God easily produced the evidence they were of God when their prayers made a noticeable difference.

Scriptures state that God does not answer or even hear the prayers of those who are disobedient to God. "James 4:3 Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.

Psalm 66:18 If I regard iniquity in my heart, the Lord will not hear [me]:" This could indicate that nobody that we know (including us) is born again or right with God. This is because salvation is conditional on obedience to God, and that nobody that we know has demonstrated to us that their prayers make a consistent difference.

The only time I have seen prayer make a noticeable and measurable difference has been experiences that others and I have had in a Pentecostal church, where we have fallen down under the power of God while being prayed for. There were also other supernatural physical effects in us such as wrenching of the body. This was probably demons in us reacting to the power of God during prayer. These demons appeared to be stirred up but were not cast out. The same people were affected in similar ways time and time again but were not healed. We never received the things that we prayed for. Who is Truly Led by God

There are many lovely caring people who are seeking to obey God and searching for the truth. Their desire is to study God's word. However, this is different to being divinely led by God, himself. If someone is truly led by God the decision or belief they claim God led them to should always be correct, because God does not make mistakes. Many people claim to be divinely led and study God's word. They claim God led them to a certain belief. However, their belief often turns out be wrong. Almost all of the people who claim to be Christians and to be led by God, disagree on important beliefs and decisions. It is probably not God who is leading them at all, because you would think that the one true God would lead people to the one truth that would not contradict itself. The Bible says God and the Holy Spirit will not cause confusion. "1Cor 14:33 For God is not [the author] of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints. James 3:14 But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth. 15 This wisdom descendeth not from above, but [is] earthly, sensual, devilish. 16 For where envying and strife [is], there [is] confusion and every evil work. 17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, [and] easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy."

Life is all about confusion and partiality for everyone I know, because we battle to make the correct choices, make incorrect decisions, and disagree over scripture. Possibly the only people who are born again and truly led by the Holy Spirit don't have these problems most of the time. It is likely that everybody we know is only led by their imagination and not by God at all. Mainstream Church Deception of a False Revival to Gain Members and Funds

People claim that many good things are happening in today's mainstream churches. It appears that the apostate church has deceived them into believing this so that it can be promoted and funded. People get excited about a healing or an answered prayer, but fail to comment on the majority that are not. They believe that there is a widespread revival when there is none. As a result people become satisfied with mainstream evangelists and the apostate church. Therefore they will not search for true Christianity and salvation.

People are leaving the mainstream churches in droves. Especially the mainstream Pentecostal churches. The reasons are normally not because they have been offended by being corrected, but because they have been deceived and given false hope by the Church. One of the main criticisms of the mainstream Pentecostal churches is that people do not tell the truth. People claim that they are healed when they are not, and promise healing without delivering. They claim that wonderful things are happening everywhere today. If they were honest they would have more support and a better name, and encourage people to search for the truth. They should be saying that only a very small percentage of people are healed, a lot of our prophecies which we claim are from God turn out to be wrong and the world is almost totally evil. Therefore we must be doing something wrong and it is possible that none of us are saved yet so, we need to seek more and obey God.

I would like to say there are many people saved today and that we are definitely saved, but I can only follow the Bible, observe what is happening today and give an honest opinion.

Over Emphasis on a Few Verses. Ignoring many Others

It seems that too many people place too much emphasis on a few verses while ignoring a large number of others. One example is John 3:16. The term "believe" means to believe what God stands for, as explained in depth at truechristianity.com. That would also mean to obey God, because it says in James 2:19 the Demons also believe God exists. Perhaps most people believe Jesus exists and has done what the Scriptures say he has done. However, the Bible also says that only a few will be saved.

Romans 10:9 is another example. Once again the term believe is used. It must therefore mean something similar to the above, otherwise the Demons would be saved. The Demons believed Jesus was the Christ and the Son of God. One example is at Luke 4:41. An antichrist could claim Jesus is Lord and also believe God raised him from the dead before returning to his evil practices. Therefore "believe" must have a deeper meaning. Romans 10:9 must be referring to the term believe as described above, and also as an initial step to salvation. If all you have to do is believe in God and not obey, then we could ignore the other verses and say they are not true. The Bible says not to do this. There are many other verses that may be more important than Romans 10:9 and John 3:16, which few people consider important.

Only the First Steps of Salvation Taught

The Bible indicates that salvation is a walk on a narrow way which is difficult. It appears that the sinner's prayer, where you give your heart to Jesus and sincerely repent, is only the first step to salvation. The scriptures indicate that the first step to salvation by itself is not sufficient to be saved. It is like the first step up Mount Everest, which almost anybody could achieve. However, that is very different to climbing to the top of Mount Everest, which almost nobody can achieve due to it's rugged conditions and the physical pain involved in the climb. There would also be a high chance of falling off the steep knife-blade ridges. However, it would be possible to climb. This also describes the narrow walk to be born again. We need to warn the unaware that a fire storm is approaching and that a number of steps are required to evacuate. If you only take one or two steps along an alley towards an exit of a burning building you would probably be burnt to death. "Matthew 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it." Salvation, Fruit and Works

Ephesians 2:8-9 says that salvation is not by works, but you still need to seek to obey God, even though we all sin and make mistakes. You would still have to believe what is true as explained in depth at truechristianity.com. Salvation will not depend on successful results or works because a sick and incapacitated person can be saved if he or she believes what is true and seeks to obey God. Throughout this ministry I am not saying that salvation results from works. I am saying that we need to obey God and move in his spirit. The below scriptures indicate that you cannot be saved without obvious fruits.

In Gal 5:22 it says, "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, " In Strong's concordance some of the meanings of fruit are "an effect, result, work, act, deed, creative effort; a product, advantage, profit, utility, and praises which are presented to God as a thank offering."

"Matthew 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. 21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." The above verses are more evidence that there are very few if any true born again Christians alive today.

Agape Love and an Extraordinary Testimony

Leading evangelists teach that you will be immediately saved after you sincerely give you life to the Lord Jesus and ask him for salvation while repenting of sin. Stuart Best had a testimony stating that he did this but continued to seek God. A summary of the testimony and his claims follows. It sounds genuine although there are a few things that I am not sure about and others that I do not agree with.

He was led to quit his job to search for the truth and obey God by turning his back on mammon. After a while he was convicted that he was not saved and instead going to Hell. This happened for over a year, where he repeatedly asked for salvation and sought God, but his prayers were not answered. He felt he died inside to sin with absolute separation from all things, including God, who would not respond despite his desperate cries for help and salvation. He remained in a state of torment and tribulation, knowing he was going to Hell.

The most important commandment or fruit is Agape Love. This is an unconditional self sacrificial love which God has for his people. After a while he had the revelation that Agape Love or Charity was different to the love one shows their family. He suddenly realized that he did not show agape love in truth, and up to that point of time he used to manipulate people to do what he wanted. He claims that then, he had an experience where God appeared to him and called him by name and he saw the heart of Jesus Christ. He then states he went through the Great White Throne Judgment where he had to confess he did not love and then he was asked will you love? Upon saying yes he claims to have became born again.

In his testimony he indicates that everybody may have to go through a similar experience as he did and that they are not saved by the sinner's prayer alone. Instead salvation takes often years where you are convicted that you are lost even before you are born again.

He quotes: "The words, ASK, SEEK, AND KNOCK, by the way, ARE NOT translated correctly. They mean, and they IMPLY a DESIRE SO GREAT THAT IT IS AN OBSESSION."

"When Jesus Christ says HE WILL COME AND SUP WITH THE BELIEVER, HE MEANS IT. It is FULLY EXPERIENTIAL, and the lies of modern Christianity that you take SALVATION BY AN ACT OF FAITH ARE LIES AND DECEPTIONS OF SATAN. You are TO HEAR THE VOICE OF CHRIST, AS HE CALLS YOU BY NAME, AND HE WILL COMMUNE WITH YOU AND SHOW YOU THE TRUTH OF THE NEW COVENANT, AND THE NEW HEART."

This testimony is very different to others that you often see because almost everybody claims that they are born again after the sinner's prayer. The testimony indicates that people are not saved until after being convicted over a long period of time. They need an obsession to seek God and to find the truth.

The man who referred me to this testimony indicated that he was not born again yet, despite being very committed and seeking God. He hopes to be soon. You can read the The Personal Testimony Of Stewart C. Best linked to http://pub59.ezboard.com/fseekers61269frm10 . Salvation Conditional on Obeying God

Many verses indicate that salvation is conditional on obeying God. "Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. Hebr 10:26-28 For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: James 2:8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well: 9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors. 10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one [point], he is guilty of all. 11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty. 13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment. 14 What [doth it] profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, 16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be [ye] warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what [doth it] profit? 17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. 18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. 19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. 20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?"

Perhaps no one will be saved if they disobey God in the ways mentioned here or at truechristianity.com/christian/salvationbfull.htm . "Matthew 7: 21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven." This could mean that nobody will be saved who is in a Trade Union or working for the corrupt government (bar rare exceptions) or working for a mainstream bank or large company that promotes or does any ungodly practices. Perhaps nobody will make it to Heaven if they are in any industry that has to promote ungodly or unnecessary things that can't be used for God's will. Christians need to work for God and not Satan because Satan controls the world's corrupt system. Perhaps nobody will make it to Heaven if they don't fully use their time or money for God's will as explained on this site. People in the mainstream churches are wearing unnecessary jewellery and are supporting evil things. "James 4:4 - . . . friendship of the world is enmity with God? I John 2:15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. Luke 16:13-14 No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon. . . ." God's Commandments

Many people call themselves Christians, but they don't try to keep God's commandments. One of the most important commandments is to love one another, which means to help each another and care for those who are less well off. There are numerous references to people being shut out of the kingdom, and instead going to hell because they did not obey this commandment, even though they came to Jesus asking to be saved. Are many Evangelists Saved

Even people who are thought of as great godly people by many others may not have been truly saved. They may have been at one point in time. There are many reports indicating that most, if not all mainstream evangelists condone evil or are false prophets. There are many thoroughly researched sites linked to truechristianity.com/references.htm with exact quotes from the evangelists, so you can judge for yourself. This means that there is strong evidence that these evangelists were not led by God, and therefore may not be saved. The concern is that many churches think highly of these evangelists. I know the evangelists preach a lot of the truth, but so did the Pharisees. The problem is the amount of deception, false claims, false prophecies, and support of evil worldly things. Below is an example of just one of the many evangelists. A report that I have read said the following about one evangelist who is highly respected by some mainstream churches, and thought by them to be a true prophet.

"This account of Wigglesworth's vision comes from pg 168-169 of Lester Sumrall's 1995 book, 'Pioneers of Faith':

"... Shutting his eyes again, he said, 'I see the greatest revival in the history of mankind coming to Planet earth, maybe as never before. And I see every form of disease healed. I see whole hospitals emptied with no one there. Even the doctors are running down the streets shouting.'

"He told me that there would be untold numbers of uncountable mult- itudes that would be saved. No man will say 'so many, so many,' because nobody will be able to count those who come to Jesus. No disease will be able to stand before God's people... 'It will be a worldwide situation, not local,' he said, 'a worldwide thrust of God's power and God's anointing upon mankind.'

"Then he opened his eyes and looked at me and said, 'I will not see it, but you shall see it."

Lester Sumrall died on April 28, 1996. Therefore, he did not see these events. This would be a false prophecy, if this account is correct, as these events were not fulfilled in Lester Sumrall's lifetime. The hospitals are not empty. We have not seen such widespread healings and revival yet. The Bible does not prophesy a revival in our age, although that does not mean that one won't occur in the future. However, there are indications in the Bible that a revival will occur in the coming tribulation and the Millennium.

A true prophet is supposed to be 100% correct. If what they said did not come to pass, they were stoned to death in the Old Testament.

People need to be careful about teaching who is a great person of God, because they may be condoning false prophets and unsaved people. This could deceive people. There are many other false prophets and evangelists that people are supporting. Please see the references page at truechristianity.com/references.htm for more information. Imagination and Deception of a Relationship With God

Many people imagine that they have a relationship with God but actually they don't. They are deceived into a false sense of security and complacency. They assume that God will take them to Heaven when they die along with their other loved ones. Such complacency is dangerous and it is obvious it would be to Satan's advantage. Imagination and deception is a powerful thing. People wrongfully think that because they have had an emotional experience they are saved and are walking with God.

Even non-Christians imagine they have relationships and hear voices. For example, schizophrenics. Most people's experiences can be explained as just a natural, emotional event. We need to live by faith, but we should find reliable evidence that what we believe is genuine for a start, otherwise we could end up like religions that live by faith, but have based their faith upon deception. Each of these religions is convinced they have a true relationship with God but they strongly disagree, therefore most of them must be wrong.

If only people in these religions thoroughly researched and tried to find evidence that what they believed is correct, they would soon realize that they are in error. It is dangerous to believe in something which you have heard without gaining evidence of it first, and closely examining and questioning your beliefs. Once there is reliable evidence then we can have faith. We need to have an open mind, to be prepared that we could be wrong and be willing to change any errors that we may have. The Bible says that Jesus will say to many in the coming day that He did not know them, even though the people thought they knew him. How do you know that God definitely knows and leads you, and that it is not just your imagination?

My concern is that many wrongly assume God is in their lives and this causes complacency and this stops them searching for the genuine thing. Therefore, they will be lost as a result. It is a bit like someone that is in the path of a firestorm who convinces themselves that they will be safe and should not take any precautions.

The people in the following two verses believed that they had a relationship with God, but it was a false one. "Matthew 7: 21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." Visions of Angels, Lights & the Virgin Mary maybe Satanic

People are deceived that they have a relationship with God, when actually it could be demons pretending to be of God. Many people have visions of angels. Visions of bright lights accompany the visions and even non-Christian people claim to have seen them. 2 Corinthians 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Others claim to see visions of the Virgin Mary. These visions could be impersonations of satan or demons or mere imagination. They could also be magical tricks, optical illusions or natural occurrences. For example, if some statues are fed a spoon of milk siphon action sucks the milk from the spoon. Serving or worshipping statues or idols was condemned in the Bible. False Claims that God Helped Them to Succeed

Some people claim that they are Christians and that God helped them to succeed. However, often the way that they succeeded would be considered worldly and not as obeying God as described on other pages of this site. If this was the case it appears as if they were deceived that it was God that was leading and helping them. It could actually be a result of their own ideas or Satan's influence. What they are doing could encourage other Christians to seek money and worldly success, which would be to Satan's advantage. The Spirit, Natural Reasoning and the Flesh

Many verses indicate that there is a big difference between the spiritual realm and the flesh realm. These verses tend to indicate that the spiritual realm should not be the natural realm. Everyone I know experiences the natural realm. "1Cor 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned. Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. Rom 8:12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. 13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. 1Cor 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption."

We all try and battle with our own strength which fails. We use natural reasoning and make mistakes instead of using God's Spirit to lead us. For example, wouldn't seeking medical cures that don't work be of the flesh, while seeking God to heal be of the spirit? Everyone I know seeks man made medical cures that mostly don't work. If you believe that you are walking close to God, the Holy Spirit should lead you. You should not have to battle in the flesh. What About the Multitudes spoken of In the Bible?

The 144000 and the enormous crowd of people saved in Rev 7:9 come out of the coming Great Tribulation when the Antichrist or the man of sin will rule. Bible chronology and the term "Great Tribulation" would indicate that we are not in the 7 year Great Tribulation yet. We are in the evil generation as it was in Noah's time before the Son of man is revealed.

In the end times, there is to be a falling away like in the days of Noah. But "2Thes 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;"

Even in the Great Tribulation the saved multitude, which no man could number (Rev 7:9) may only consist of a few thousand people. It is hard to count the exact number of people in a crowd that is moving around, therefore it is likely that nobody in the crowd could count the exact number, as the verse indicates. Many people assume that the following verse is referring to mankind, and the people alive today. However, it is mainly referring to angels. Nothing in this verse indicates that it refers to people who are alive today. "Rev 5:11 And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands;" Scriptures Only Applying to the Chosen People

There is strong evidence that many Scriptures only speak to and apply to God's chosen people. This is the only way to explain many of the difficult questions and why many Scriptures appear to contradict. Some verses do not necessarily speak to everyone. Many verses contain words like "you", "us" and "we". People wrongly assume that these verses always apply to them. For example, some verses only speak to the Israelites in the Old Testament, or to the Apostles in the New Testament.

There were obvious measurable signs that God cared for his chosen people in the Scriptures. There were other groups of people where God did not work in their lives. They did not know God and they perished. Like today, many would not have heard the gospel.

We should not indicate to people that they cannot be saved if they seek God. If we seek God and try to obey him, we would have more chance of being chosen as one of his own, but the choosing is up to God. He is the judge. We still need to face the judgment, and there is every indication that it will be harsh.

Scriptures indicating that only certain people will be chosen are: "Matthew 22:14 For many are called, but few [are] chosen. Matthew 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call His name Jesus, for he shall save HIS PEOPLE from their sins. Luke 1:77 To give knowledge of salvation unto HIS PEOPLE by the remission of their sins. John 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and (that) your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you. Rom 9:10 And not only [this]; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, [even] by our father Isaac; 11 (For [the children] being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;) 12 It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. 13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. Romans 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? Mat 11:15 He that hath ears to hear, let him hear." (This indicates that some people are born without ears and therefore cannot hear the word of God and therefore cannot be chosen) "Matthew 13: 37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; 38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked [one]; 39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. 40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. John 17:9 ; I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine. Matt 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Acts 13:48 And when the Gentiles [peoples] heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ORDAINED to eternal life believed. Matt 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. John 6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. Romans 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to [his] purpose."

It is puzzling why God appeared to Paul so dramatically while he was disobeying God, while today people are seeking God and trying to obey him yet God does not appear to them. As a result they may become disgruntled and lost. Perhaps they are not meant to be the chosen people.

There is also a question about the matter that is linked to the forum at http://www.truechristianity.com/philosophy

Perhaps this can explain why many people are truly seeking God but cannot find him to the point that they are satisfied they have his spirit. It could be possible that some people will not be chosen and saved no matter how hard they try to seek and obey God. It appears as if Paul, the Apostles and the thief on the cross were in the right place at the right time and were chosen. I cannot explain why some people in Biblical times found God without any evidence they first tried hard to seek and obey him, while today some people spend enormous time trying to seek and obey God but they cannot find him. Luke 11:9, which says "seek, and ye shall find" may only apply and speak to the chosen people.

I don't particularly want to believe in the chosen people concept but there are so many verses that suggest it as indicated. Also evidence suggests that it is so. I am seeking to believe the truth even if it not pleasant. People can make the mistake of believing pleasant and hopeful things even if they are not true. They can believe in what feels nice instead of seeking the truth. Scriptures Indicating Divine Help in: Finding What we Need; Peace and Joy; Memory; and Comfort. The Opposite is Happening for Everyone We Know.

The things the Scriptures say should be happening to us are not happening. Instead often the opposite is happening. For example, Romans 8:28 above indicates that "all things work together for good to them that love God". Very few things work out to be good for everyone I know, including myself. There are no obvious positive outcomes. Life is often about frustration, uncertainty, worry, not achieving what you hope for or things taking longer than we hope, accidents, things breaking down, sicknesses that do not cure and natural disasters. We often make incorrect decisions that prove costly, after it takes considerable time and pain to make them. There are also many other problems. Some people put a positive spin on things and say that people make mistakes so they learn not to make them again. However, people often only forget what they have learnt before making the same mistake again.

We regularly lose things and cannot find them or unfortunate or unlikely bad things happen to us. We forget most of what we read, hear or learn after it takes an enormous amount of time to study. Sometimes we become sick and do not recover. Very often we need to try a great many times before getting something correct, or finding what we want.

The Bible says that God's chosen people will seek and they will find (Luke 11:9) but the opposite seems to be happening. If people were truly led by God like the Apostles, you would think that they would be led to what they need without considerable searching and worry. One of the major battles is trying to find the people or items that we need. There are so many counterfeit things and subtly deceptive people that look like what we need. Trying to find something good is like trying to find a small piece of gold in a heap in which there is mostly Fools Gold and rubbish.

We try to make the correct decisions based on the opinions of many people who are knowledgeable in that area. Often their opinions contradict and there are so many possible choices. For example, when we are trying to purchase an item, we need to contact many experts in that field and compare many prices to make the correct choices. This may take days. Another example is if we need a second hand car, it may take months of painful searching to find a good one, and after we buy it we may realize that it was the wrong decision. This is also true when trying to decide where to live if you are thinking of moving. We are faced with decisions all the time, and it is unlikely that we will make the best choice; at least initially. The consequences can be great.

The Apostles were led by the spirit to make the correct decisions. Therefore, we should be doing better and we must be doing something wrong.

We could do nothing else but read and study the Bible, and we may still not remember most of it. It seems a terrible waste of time, therefore it makes sense to spend a lot more time searching for a better way. To remember things, we need to read or hear them several times. We may only take in a small percent of what we read or hear. It may consume days of our time just to read one book once. There are many more books we would like to read. If only reading, comprehension, and memory were more efficient we would have more time to do more for the Lord. There are non-Christian people in the world who claim to be very efficient in these areas.

The Holy Spirit is supposed to be a helper and a comforter, so you would think that someone walking in the spirit would be more efficient at these things than worldly people. If only we were divinely led on these things. If the below verse applies today, the Holy Spirit brings remembrance of all things. "John 14:26 But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you." The Bible says the Holy Spirit is for today, so why wouldn't this verse apply today to those spirit filled Christians? I don't see supernatural memory and consistent comfort among the so-called Christians I know, including me.

The fruit of the spirit is said to include peace and joy (Gal 5:22). People claim that they have it consistently but they are probably deceived. People may be joyful and peaceful in church or when things are going well, but the difficulty arises when things go wrong, their prayers are not answered, and people become frustrated. Even unbelievers experience periods of peace and joy usually when things go well. If I lived or worked with those people who claim to be Christians and have peace and joy, they would probably be as frustrated and disappointed throughout their daily lives as the people I know.

Many people do repetitive easy work and do not have ambitions. They do not do challenging tasks where many frustrating things can go wrong. These people, who are often unbelievers, claim to have joy and peace, which would be understandable. If you follow someone else or the secular system you need to make fewer choices, as they are made for you. It would be easier if you did this to have joy and peace, as you would be blindly following an easy path. However, we are not meant to follow the world or the broad road. I am not saying that all people who claim to have joy and peace are on an easy road, just that nobody has proven to me that they have it consistently while being on a difficult road, such as trying to invent something. When doing things like this that are less predictable, tasks mostly take much longer than you hope, and unforeseen things go wrong.

There are solutions, but they take time to implement. Therefore in the mean time frustrating problems persist to torment. Other unexpected problems occur, which delay solving the initial problems. As a result your plans and solutions are not achieved. At the same time you are conscious about what you should be focusing on but delays and setbacks prevent you from doing it.

There are so many setbacks and unexpected disasters. When terrible things happen, or when we do not receive or achieve what we hope for, human nature naturally gets, frustrated. We naturally get anxious, unsatisfied, unthankful and frustrated. Hence there is not peace and joy. There is worry, uncertainty, anxiety, turmoil, confusion and stress, when we battle to make decisions to overcome problems. We hope things will work out well, and run smoothly, but mostly we are disappointed. Unwanted thoughts enter our brains, which hinder us. Joy and peace are very difficult to achieve in this world. It is therefore difficult to be satisfied and thankful. Illness can also prevent joy and peace. Some people get upset by problems and mishaps more than others.

The following three verses indicate that all of God's people will be supernaturally provided for, and not have to make frustrating worrying decisions to obtain what they need. The verses also indicate that everybody we know who is concerned and making painful decisions about these things are faithless ordinary, worldly, unsaved people.

"Mat 6:30 Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and tomorrow is cast into the oven, [shall he] not much more [clothe] you, O ye of little faith? Mat 6:31 Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed? Mat 6:32 (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek:) for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things."

Here are some verses that are supposed to be true for God's chosen people. The available evidence indicates that the opposite is happening to all of the people we know. "Luke 11:9 And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you. 10 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. 11 If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if [he ask] a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent? 12 Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion? 13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall [your] heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?"

I have yet to see consistent evidence of this today. Divine Miracles or just Natural Coincidences

Many people claim that an event was a miracle of God, but it is often just a natural and fortunate coincidence, which can also happen to ungodly people. For example, people claim that it was a miracle from God that they were not killed in an accident but actually there is a high chance that this was due to a natural causes. If the term miracle is used, some people will think that you are comparing it to the supernatural miracles in the Bible that could not happen naturally. Ungodly people have close shaves all the time in things which are irrelevant to God. For example, it is amazing how many times someone batting in a game of cricket will go so close to being dismissed. It may be dozens of occasions yet they still survive. To the naive this may look like a miracle that they survived, but these things often happen.

For an event to be claimed as a miracle, ideally a less than one in a million chance of it happening naturally should exist. People who claim that natural events are miracles could be judged as downgrading the work of God. Skeptics would see what they claim to be miracles as just a fortunate coincidence. As a result people may believe all the true, supernatural miracles in the Bible are only like what people falsely claim to be miracles today. Hence they will think that the true miracles in the Bible were not supernatural miracles. Therefore it will help the argument for atheists and non Bible believers, and damage Christianity.

The miracles in the Bible could not have happened by chance, and many of them could not happen naturally. Christians should be saying that what people claim to be miracles may not be truly miracles, and that we must be doing something wrong for God not to move as He moved in the Bible. If they did this people would trust their statements more. They would encourage people to search for the genuine thing, not make false claims, and not become complacent.

Even though the origins of the word luck have pagan roots, sometimes the word still needs to be used so that people can understand what we are talking about.

One meaning of the word at dictionary.com is "To gain success or something desirable by chance:" This meaning is a fact of life because evidence suggests that most minor events in most people's lives are left to chance, and that God does not have a hand in them.

Many people have a biased view when something goes wrong. They say that "they were lucky that it was not worse or lucky to be alive." This would be considered a correct statement in itself. However, biased views give false impressions. Often people say "I am the luckiest person to be alive." But this cannot be true because they would be luckier if the problem did not occur in the first place, and they could be considered unlucky because the problem occurred at all.

Desirable outcomes can be explained by chance, as their frequency does not defy the laws of probability in all the cases that I know of. God may not be involved with many of them. For example, some are attributed to ungodly actions, as in the case of someone gambling and winning a lot of money. Often evil people have desirable outcomes, while good or godly people do not. Therefore these things could be considered to be not blessings from God, as blessings are promised to the righteous and curses are promised to those who disobey God.

False statements indicating that it is God helping and blessing ungodly people can give the impression that God is pleased with these people and that they are doing his will. But in actual fact God may be very angry with them and wanting them to repent and become saved. Could a Perfect God Have a Hand in Someone's Life With Relentless Confusion and Chaos?

God's creation is perfect, where things fit together mathematically. It is claimed that the Hebrew and Greek text in all the books of the Bible have a mathematical pattern called Bible Numerics that proves the Bible has to be the word of God. Such perfection cannot happen by chance. Details are widely available.

From this and the word of God we understand that God does things perfectly and you would not think He would be causing chaotic, confusing, random, purposeless, frustrating problems with no positive benefit that occur in the lives of everyone I know. Perhaps it is mostly not God who is causing them. If you claim it is definitely God controlling everything you could be indicating that God is not perfect. That means it could be wrong and deceptive to say that God definitely has a hand in your life and is leading you when evidence suggests otherwise. If you do, people may see God as a chaotic God. This is different to how the Scriptures describe him. Also such claims deceive people they do not need to search for God and become saved. If you believe that you are saved and that God definitely is in your life, are you suggesting that the many Scriptures I quote are incorrect? It appears as if God does not control everything but if He does it leaves a lot of unanswered questions.

The Bible also says: "Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin, because his seed remaineth in him". John 5:18 "We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not". Everyone I know, including myself struggles in the flesh and commits sin to some degree. So many people teach that evil things are good. Who is practicing Christianity as it is explained at http://truechristianity.com/? Who's Life Does God Have a Hand In?

I know we humans can create an automatic computer program or machine over which we have ultimate control. The plans for the day could be to leave it run automatically, do other things and at the end of the day turn the program or machine off and maybe manually fix any problems it caused. Either we or backup relief workers have control over it because no matter what happens we are always present in the workshop and will switch it off at the end of the day. But while it is unattended, the program or machine could malfunction and cause problems. However, if the problem is so great that the life of the machine or program is about to encounter a fatal problem to destroy it, one of the workers would intervene to stop it after a warning signal. A person would have control over switching the program or machine off and repairing it. In the same way God has control over the major events He chooses to. It does not mean God controls and watches over every small thing and stops it from going wrong.

If a gardener creates many gardens and looks after some but not others, the difference between the ones He loves and works in and the ones left to chance and the elements would be noticeably and measurably different. Where is the significant difference between the unbelievers and so-called Christians today?

I know of people who are very sincere and trying their hardest to obey God, but it appears as if they are doing it with their own strength. There is no proof of God's power in their lives.

It is debatable what exactly God does control. Perhaps He does not control the lives at all of those He does not know and has not chosen. This could include how long they live. However. even if God does not have a hand in anyone's life, there is still probably a log record of every detail that God can refer to in the judgment.

People think there is divine intervention and God has helped them when something goes well, but how do they know it was God and not just a coincidence? By coincidence something good that is highly unlikely, happens to everyone at times. Wonderful and extremely unlikely events even happen to fortunate ungodly people doing evil things. However, these things do not happen for most people including Christians, even if they are doing Godly things. Instead, things still go wrong. There is no noticeable difference between the rate of accidents, mishaps, breakdowns etc for the unbelievers compared to the believers we know. God may not have a hand in these things for all the people I know, because there is no pattern or purpose to most of these problems. Consistently good outcomes, or answered prayers at a higher rate than could possibly occur by just chance, is what is required to prove that an event is definitely divine intervention and not just a coincidence.

Maybe God focuses on other more important issues. This is not to say that God does not know what is happening and doesn't have a positive outcome for our lives.

I know the unfolding history of the world is divinely controlled because prophecies have been fulfilled and will be fulfilled. People blame God for causing certain disasters, but it is likely He may not have a hand in them. God could leave most things to chance, at least most of the time. By doing this He may be hoping that people realize something is wrong and start doing his will.

If God is really helping us, you would think that things would work out better than the chance result or Murphy's Law which states: "anything that can possibly go wrong, will go wrong". If someone loves you and is helping you, you notice it and the difference is measurable. I challenge you to give evidence that it is really God's hand influencing a circumstance in your life so that it is not just a chance outcome. Frustrating Problems can be a Test of Faith. All Should End on a Positive Note For the Believers.

Many people state that frustrating problems are a test of faith, but if this was definitely the case, you would think there would be a positive conclusion and purpose in the long run in the lives of all committed Christians on earth. Romans 8:28 states; ". . . all things work together for good to them that love God . . .". This was the case with the people of God who suffered like Job, who remained faithful and was blessed in the end with God speaking to him. Historically God has punished the unsaved and blessed his chosen people. In Biblical times, Christians still experienced times of persecution and suffering, but for the people of God such as Job, these trials generally ended on a positive note.

Looking at many people's lives it is often hard to see the reason why unfortunate things continue to happen. Sickness, frustration and problems can draw people to God, but why do they continue after people are seeking God so that the sickness and frustrating problems prevent people from doing God's will? So often there is no positive outcome resulting from the above problems. The only chosen people could be people where the evidence is obvious that God has a hand any almost every affair of their lives. Romans 8:28 (as quoted above) is more evidence that we are yet to meet a born again person. Who does God Love?

This chapter will examine this topic with an open mind. We need to put aside what we have been taught and look at both sides of the debate. The aim is to find the truth and be willing to change our view if we find the truth is different to what we previously believed. I am also willing to change some of my information if more light can be shed on these subjects.

The Bible states that God does love his chosen people. But does He love everyone? To answer this question with an open mind we need to look at all scriptures and not just one or two. I previously stated that many scriptures only apply to certain people and not to everyone. Therefore terms like "you" or "us" often only apply to God's chosen people. Below are some scriptures that few people focus on.

"Romans 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. Malachi 1:2 ; I have loved you, saith the LORD. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? [Was] not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the LORD: yet I loved Jacob, 3 And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness. 4 Whereas Edom saith, We are impoverished, but we will return and build the desolate places; thus saith the LORD of hosts, They shall build, but I will throw down; and they shall call them, The border of wickedness, and, The people against whom the LORD hath indignation for ever."

These scriptures indicate that people must be interpreting John 3:16 wrong. It appears as if God is saying He loves his chosen people and his creation generally and not the evil aspects of the world. Verses such as1John 2:15 speak against the world and said not to be friendly with it.

The Bible indicates that God does not know many people personally. "Matthew 7: 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." If we don't know someone personally how can we love them fully and help them? We may know of them, but not know them personally. For example, if two people are commonly seen on television each of them probably knows that each other exists and what each of them does. However, they do not know and love them to the point that they help and care for each other.

The Bible also talks about when God leaves or forsakes people. Versus such as Hebrews 13:5 which state ". . . I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee." only appear to apply to the chosen people. The following verse only applies to his people. "1 Samuel 12:22 For the LORD will not forsake his people for his great name's sake: because it hath pleased the LORD to make you his people." The below verses in this paragraph indicate that God does forsake certain people. 2 Chronicles 15:2 And he went out to meet Asa, and said unto him, Hear ye me, Asa, and all Judah and Benjamin; The LORD [is] with you, while ye be with him; and if ye seek him, he will be found of you; but if ye forsake him, he will forsake you. Jer 23:33 And when this people, or the prophet, or a priest, shall ask thee, saying, What [is] the burden of the LORD? thou shalt then say unto them, What burden? I will even forsake you, saith the LORD. Jer 23:39 Therefore, behold, I, even I, will utterly forget you, and I will forsake you, and the city that I gave you and your fathers, [and cast you] out of my presence: 1 Samuel 16:14 But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him."

The above problems indicate the wrath of God because many Scriptures indicate his wrath towards certain people. One example also quoted above is: Malachi 1:4 Whereas Edom saith, We are impoverished, but we will return and build the desolate places; thus saith the LORD of hosts, They shall build, but I will throw down; and they shall call them, The border of wickedness, and, The people against whom the LORD hath indignation for ever." God may be trying to say that He is very angry at us and all the people we know. During the 40 years in the wilderness with Moses, the Israelites were not satisfied and God was angry with them. He may be saying we need to still be born again, stop being complacent and start searching for the truth.

We also need to look at the evidence for and against God loving everyone. If someone loves someone it is obvious and noticeable that they care for and help them in their daily needs. The Bible promises that God will do the same to the people He loves. Therefore God should noticeably help the people He loves in the ways described earlier and in the specific examples in the chapter titled "A Powerful Challenge to bring Revival".

Instead of the promised help God promises those that He loves, the opposite is happening, where there is relentless, unforeseen, frustrating, chaotic and purposeless problems. There are so many reminders that God may not love us when things relentlessly go wrong with no obvious purpose or positive outcome. For example: losing or forgetting things; not being able to find what we need; having equipment failure; making mistakes and incorrect decisions that prove costly; having accidents; experiencing inconveniences, difficult decisions and sickness; or narrowly missing out on something that we need because we are late.

The Bible indicates that God will help his chosen people that He loves. The problems described above are not evidence of love, but are evidence of the opposite. Evidence of love would be God helping people with their needs as explained in the chapter titled "A Powerful Challenge to Bring Revival.".

Hopefully God does love the people we know and myself. If He does love us at the moment, his ways are very hard to understand. However, He may not love us until He is pleased with our actions. Even if this is the case, there is still great hope He will love us one day if we obey him. I am not saying that God definitely does not love us. I am suggesting there is evidence that we should think about. Therefore, we should start searching for and obeying God to increase our chances of finding God so that He will hopefully one day love us and be pleased with us. The danger of teaching that God definitely loves everyone is that it could create complacency and a false belief that unsaved people are going to Heaven.

For many people thoughts of God's love could be an emotional imagination at times when they are often doing nothing or when events are going well.

If you can give evidence that God does love and consistently help you in your daily needs like promised in the Bible please contact me. It is important that you read the specific examples of how we need help in our daily needs in the chapter titled "A Powerful Challenge to bring Revival". Universal Reconciliation

The Bible does not teach "universal reconciliation" which is the doctrine that Christ will save everyone. People single out verses like the two mentioned below to build false doctrine. John 12:32 does not necessarily indicate salvation. Just a drawing which many reject. The Bible says in Matthew 22:14 "For many are called, but few [are] chosen." Luke 3:6 could mean that the unbelievers will see how God has saved the believers just before the unbelievers are burnt up in Hell. These verses may only also apply to God's chosen people.

"John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all [men] unto me.

Luke 3:6 And all flesh shall see the salvation of God." Good News, Genuine Believers and Hell

The good news is that our lives would probably become much better if we can find genuine Christians and if we can find a better relationship with God.

Even if nobody we know well are saved there is very strong evidence that we will not be subjected to eternal torture and that Hell may not be any worse than this life for unsaved and unchosen people who sought God and were not willfully wicked. Please see truechristianity.com/christian/helldoctrines.htm

There is still a high chance that a lot of people will be saved. What I say above in this chapter is only a possibility, but it should be at least thought about and taken seriously, because there is some very strong evidence for it. Conclusion and Purpose

If a large number of people were walking with God today, it would mean that many of the Bible verses mentioned in this chapter would have to be false. It appears that only a small number of people are born again or being saved today, and many verses only apply to the small number of God's chosen people. It is possible that there may be less than one hundred born again people alive in the world today. However, the Bible indicates that there will be a much larger number in the near future. However, to avoid complacency, it is important to remember that the evidence in this report indicates that if the status quo prevails, then probably nobody that we know will make it to the kingdom of Heaven.

People come to me with claims of a supernatural healing or experience, but as far as I know these are only in the minority and these experiences are not consistent like in the days of the Apostles. These cases may not be truly supernatural and they may be false claims. I could spend days studying cases of healings and supernatural claims but it will not solve our problems. The problem is these things always seem to be occurring elsewhere and are rare. Also the people are not contacting me and producing evidence that they really are the people of God. If someone contacts me and wants to come here to give evidence that they are of God and if I am satisfied that they are really a person of God, and are using God's gifts consistently, I will help finance their travel and fund their ministry.

Many people think that the way to Christ does not work at the moment because they see Christians as disagreeing with other Christians on important doctrines. They also see them as not doing what God wants, and claiming things they can't give evidence for which contradict what is really happening. Unbelievers see some of the worldly people as more caring than the so called Christians. Therefore if we made people aware that all of the people we know may not be true Christians, then unbelievers may see that Christianity must be better than the bad impression that the so called Christians give. Therefore they may want to search for the true Christians that can give evidence that God has a hand in their lives. Many people are atheists and unbelievers because they do not see true believers like the Bible describes. Sharing this chapter could encourage them to search for the truth.

People who have become disgruntled with their church may realize that it was not a true Christian congregation at all. They may realize that true Christianity is actually good and worth searching for.

One problem is that many people are satisfied with what they are doing in their Christian ministry. It takes a lot of their time. They don't have the time to study, realize and act on the fact that there is something desperately lacking in what they are teaching compared to what the Bible teaches. Instead of wasting their time going to a lukewarm church which teaches a lukewarm message without all the truth, they would be better off searching for the genuine believers who are truly without a doubt led by the Spirit of God. They could then form a group that would benefit them more. The message that almost all of the Christian churches, ministries and books are teaching may not lead anyone to salvation. There is no point pushing a dead horse. Why not stop what you are doing and search for something genuine with God's power that lines up with all of the Scriptures in the Bible?

I am happy to change any of this information if it can be proved wrong. I challenge any person believing this information to be wrong to produce the evidence that he or she is really a person of God, and that what he or she is saying is correct. I would like to be able to say that I certainly know of people who are definitely saved and supernaturally led by God.

Hopefully this chapter will encourage people to search for the truth and become committed. As a result they could lead others into the truth. Then we may achieve the things that we hope for, and there could be a revival. The important thing is not to give up, and to keep trying. We need to motivate people to search for the truth and the truly born again people, because if we do, there is a good chance that we will find them. Then they could lead us to have a close relationship with God. This is important because the evidence in this chapter indicates that we are probably not born again at this stage, and that we have yet to meet anyone who is. Finding true born again believers for fellowship and encouragement will help us enormously.