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Quoted posts under my OT

Intent Vs Impact

Finale Fireworker said: You're thinking about this in terms of intention instead of impact.



People say and do all kinds of things and not intend to hurt someone else. That doesn't mean they don't. Probably in your lifetime you have known people who used homophobic language or derogatory terms for differently-abled people to describe things they don't like. But people have largely stopped using language like this because, regardless of how it is intended, it has a negative impact on the people around them. We now have a different and healthier expectation from others as a result.



The request in this thread is not as severe of a case. This situation is more about courtesy, visibility, and respect. But it's the same idea that people use language they are accustomed without always thinking about how it is perceived. You probably don't mean to be disrespectful. You probably don't mean to exclude women or non-binary people from your conversation. But this is often a side-effect of the language you use whether you intend it to or not.



So if you don't want to do that, why not make the small, free change to make sure you don't?





I'll give you another example that may be more relatable. I used to work with a guy whose older brother was very popular. Everybody called the older brother "Mappy." When the younger brother started getting older and making friends, everybody called him "Mappy Jr". People meant this as a lighthearted joke about him being a popular guy's little brother. But he really hated this nickname because it put him in his older brother's shadow at all times. People wouldn't see him or greet him without implicitly acknowledging that he was somebody else's sibling. It made him feel like people didn't care about who he was, or what he liked, because everybody liked his brother more. He asked people to stop calling him that after a few years, and people felt bad, so they stopped.



What you say and what you do has consequences you may not intend. Something that feels normal and harmless to you might be disrespectful to somebody else. Chances are if someone you knew and liked asked you to stop calling them something, you would. It's not hard to show that same courtesy to others too. You lose nothing by doing it, so why wouldn't you? Click to expand... Click to shrink...

But it's only 1% of people, why do the 99" need to change?

Finale Fireworker said:



I think that this mathematical approach to compassion is self-defeating. Somebody shouldn’t have to be a majority (or near-majority) population for their feelings to matter.



Consider how many places you go to with handicap accessible parking spaces, bathrooms, and access ramps. These accommodations make it so people with difficulty walking can go to the same places you can, feel welcome in their own society, and not be rendered invisible by those without disabilities. This ensures the



These 30.6 million people in wheelchairs or with walkers matter. They have worth and feelings and value. They also make up less than 1% of the United States. (EDIT: I missed a decimal point here. It is 10%, not 1%. This is my error. I believe the intent of this passage is still clear, however.)



So if we let statistics decide how compassionate we are or aren’t, we would decide these people don’t matter. We would decide it’s not worth it to make minor concessions to accommodate them. We would decide it wasn’t fair for the other 99% of the population to have to give up some parking spaces or use a ramp instead of steps.



Motivation to be kind and respectful to others shouldn’t be extrinsic. You shouldn’t seek external justification to be considerate. It’s a personal decision you have to make for yourself.



I think accepting other people for who they are and how they want to be seen and addressed has innate value that doesn’t need to be rationalized. Using ungendered language is a free, easy thing you can do to be kind and respectful to other people. It contributes to an environment where male identity is not the societal default and benefits gender equality. It supports self-expression and recognition of identity. It lets the people who care about these things know you see them and you think their feelings matter.



Maybe for you it feels foreign and strange at first to have to say “everyone” or “folks” instead or “you guys.” But think of how foreign and strange gendered language can make some people feel all the time. If you could do something to change that, why wouldn’t you? I unfortunately don’t have a lot of time so I just want to hone in on this part specifically. This isn’t to say the rest of your post doesn’t matter. Normally I prefer not to selectively quote but I hope you’ll forgive me in the interest of time.I think that this mathematical approach to compassion is self-defeating. Somebody shouldn’t have to be a majority (or near-majority) population for their feelings to matter.Consider how many places you go to with handicap accessible parking spaces, bathrooms, and access ramps. These accommodations make it so people with difficulty walking can go to the same places you can, feel welcome in their own society, and not be rendered invisible by those without disabilities. This ensures the 30.6 million Americans with permanent mobility disabilities are able to live more comfortably alongside everyone else. These are all good things, no?These 30.6 million people in wheelchairs or with walkers matter. They have worth and feelings and value. They also make up less than 1% of the United States. (EDIT: I missed a decimal point here. It is 10%, not 1%. This is my error. I believe the intent of this passage is still clear, however.)So if we let statistics decide how compassionate we are or aren’t, we would decide these people don’t matter. We would decide it’s not worth it to make minor concessions to accommodate them. We would decide it wasn’t fair for the other 99% of the population to have to give up some parking spaces or use a ramp instead of steps.Motivation to be kind and respectful to others shouldn’t be extrinsic. You shouldn’t seek external justification to be considerate. It’s a personal decision you have to make for yourself.I think accepting other people for who they are and how they want to be seen and addressed has innate value that doesn’t need to be rationalized. Using ungendered language is a free, easy thing you can do to be kind and respectful to other people. It contributes to an environment where male identity is not the societal default and benefits gender equality. It supports self-expression and recognition of identity. It lets the people who care about these things know you see them and you think their feelings matter.Maybe for you it feels foreign and strange at first to have to say “everyone” or “folks” instead or “you guys.” But think of how foreign and strange gendered language can make some people feelIf you could do something to change that, why wouldn’t you? Click to expand... Click to shrink...

Thread has derailed my life... I want to actually have some down time tonight too. Leaving the thread for now, please read through if you have any questions as I may have already answered them.If not, please feel free to PM me with anything. I will not be working back on replies ITT later.- top right of the thread. I'll add posts that I think are reverent/answer a lot of common questions.- for posts I think deserve a lot more exposure, I'll both TM and add below.Thank you all for reading!----Okay, let me start by saying I'm non-binary. All my life I've struggled with my gender identity, being told I have to conform to the standard when I felt like something else. I know many others like myself too, and while, personally, mis-gendering doesn't harm me, I know it harms others, make them feel like their existence is being denied. It's harmful, it shouldn't happen.And the "boys club" issues of gaming is something that's still not resolved despite making some good progress in the industry.Girls/Women, non-binary, gender fluid people play games. They're not boys. The word boys doesn't cover them and feels as though you're excluding them immediately.I just asked a person to not use the word in a discord chat. They told me they were using the word "boys" to speak to everyone, that to them "boys" means "all". When I explained why I would prefer it if they didn't, they told me "sure, but I'm rolling my eyes pretty hard".Boys doesn't mean "all". Even if to you it does. And it has the immediate affect of being an excluding term. And this is before we get to the conversation about words that are used to describe male humans become so prominent that they eventually get absorbed into public consciousness to cover everyone (see: guys). Let me say, I'm personally fine with the word guys (in that I've accepted it will never change), but some are not. I try to avoid it for that reason. But this is about the word "boys".Boys doesn't meant girls.Boys doesn't mean non-binary.Boys doesn't mean gender-fluid.Etc..."let's go boys!""Where we landing boys?""you boys ready?"Terms like these are all over the gaming side, even in topic titles.I can't speak for all of these folk, but for myself I've spent my entire life feeling ashamed of my identity because, whenever I brought it up in conversion growing up, it was met with mockery or hostility. Even many of my friends who were understanding of it overall still made fun of it.Even to this day I don't correct certain members of my family or people I meet because the battle exhausts me and I know many people will react in a hostile way. Hell, I know people will read this plea and do everything from roll their eyes to condemn me for being a mentally ill snowflake, but whatever, it needs to be said.Please, when speaking to ALL, don't use BOYS. For some of us it feels like a stab in the gut every time, not just for ourselves but for the many people this kind of exclusivity harms.It doesn't take much for you to think about this and correct the use of a word, but it could go a long way to making many of us feel welcome.Thanks for considering.-----