Fox News host Tucker Carlson and conservative commentator Ben Shapiro discussed, during Tucker’s Wednesday show, what it would take for any Democrat to survive the 2020 party primary and successfully dispatch President Donald Trump in the general election.

“The problem is that there is only one thought leader in the Democratic party right now and that’s Bernie Sanders,” Shapiro said during the discussion. “What you’re seeing is a bunch of candidates attempting to steer into the Bernie Sanders lane, and there’s no room in that lane, Bernie Sanders has occupied that entire lane.”

“You’re talking about ideas candidates, the one candidate who’s shouting policy ideas from the rooftops is, of course, our Native American candidate Elizabeth Warren,” he continued, discussing why no single candidate on the Democratic side has emerged with a strong lead over the others. “She keeps spouting policy prescriptions every five minutes. Here is a new policy prescription, why isn’t anyone paying attention to me?” (RELATED: Pete Buttigieg Says ‘The Political Movement…Most Based On Identity Politics Is Trumpism’)

Shapiro went on to argue that nobody is paying attention to Sen. Elizabeth Warren because she occupies the same progressive “lane” in the Democratic party as independent Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders. He then added that in the moderate “lane” of the party, there are no real thought leaders so far because everyone is trying to be in the progressive lane.

“So who exactly is going to come along and occupy that lane while still being able to win over the woke intersectional base of the Democratic Party?” Shapiro asked. “Whoever does that has a possibility at the nomination right now. Buttigieg can do that only insofar as he can speak the platitudes that sound moderate. But when he is actually pegged down, as you noted, he is just as far left as Bernie Sanders in all of this.”

Carlson then responded that he wanted candidates to discuss actual ideas that are important to people who will be voting in 2020.

“‘Bernie Sanders almost never seems to be an ideas candidate when you listen to him, he almost never says anything, unlike Elizabeth Warren, he never says anything interesting, why is that?” Tucker asked.

Shapiro rejoined by arguing that Sanders discusses large policy goals, but all of the other candidates jump onboard in order to further their progressive credentials, despite the fact that they don’t ever really intend on following through with those stated goals.

“They won’t just go to where the mainstream of their own party is, which is the moderate area. Joe Biden is a terrible candidate, he is actually leading in most of the polls because he is perceived as a moderate. That’s true of Beto and Buttigieg by the way,” he concluded.

“Nobody in the Democratic Party actually has the stones to run as a moderate inside the Democratic Party,” he added. “Even though it’s probably the best possible way for them to win the nomination.”

“If a Democrat were actually able to do that, they would win sweeping support, but they just can’t do that,” Shapiro said. “We’ve been saying that for years, all they have to do is not be crazy, and they can’t stop themselves, they just can’t.”

The discussion came after Carlson analyzed why South Bend, Indiana Mayor Pete Buttigieg is swallowing party support that had previously gone to former Rep. Beto O’Rourke. Beto was criticized by many in the media for his lack of policy initiatives, and his roundabout way of answering questions.

“The thing is, he doesn’t have a message right now. It’s all goop,” MSNBC host Joe Scarborough said of the Texas Democrat in March. It was also revealed that the Democrat had paid less than 1% of his total 2018 income to charities, a point he appeared unready to discuss when asked at an event at the University of Virginia on Tuesday evening.

“I’ve served in public office since 2005. I do my best to contribute to the success of my community, my state, and now, my country,” he continued. “There are ways that I do this that are measurable and there are ways that I do this that are immeasurable. There are charities that we donate to that are recorded and itemized, and others that we donate to that we have not.”