Re: XY Problem

(Abbot) on Apr 11, 2006 at 06:12 UTC by wfsp on Apr 11, 2006 at 06:12 UTC

The proscriptive XYZ. I want to do X and I know you'll all tell me to use Y but I need to use Z. I can't use Y and I'm not going to explain, I have to use Z and I won't explain that either. update 1: Don't waste your time telling me about Y.

update 2: Look, I have to use Z. Just tell me how to use Z.

update 3: I give up, you're all fools Hope that helps :-)

Re^2: XY Problem

(Priest) on Apr 11, 2006 at 14:20 UTC by ptum on Apr 11, 2006 at 14:20 UTC

wfsp++ Ha! You gave my my first out-loud laugh of the day ... thanks. :) I think I saw an example of an XYZ problem of this nature just the other day, here in PerlMonks. I particularly liked update 3, very clever. Again, thanks.

No good deed goes unpunished. -- (attributed to) Oscar Wilde

Re: XY Problem

(Parson) on May 10, 2006 at 13:59 UTC by jonadab on May 10, 2006 at 13:59 UTC

update 2: Look, I have to use Z. Just tell me how to use Z. Heh. Smells like poorly-designed homework, from a prof who's more interested in following grocery lists of programming "skills" to teach than in actually teaching the skill of good programming.

Re^2: XY Problem

(Hermit) on Feb 10, 2011 at 15:07 UTC by Voronich on Feb 10, 2011 at 15:07 UTC

Ahhh... what you said. The problem I have most frequently is that I really do know I need to do Z and the explanation as to why is really not germane. But... people love to 'be smart' so they start prying. The trick, I suppose, is distinguishing between the two types of queries. http://www.mpwilson.com/uccu/

Re: XY Problem

(Monsignor) on Apr 10, 2006 at 21:08 UTC by xdg on Apr 10, 2006 at 21:08 UTC

Some related problems: YX Problem : You explain that you want to do X and instead of an answer you're asked "Why would you want to do X?"



XZ Problem : You ask how to get X to work and you're told to do Z instead.



XYZABC Problem : You ask how to do X and after suggesting or getting an answer Y, you get four more alternatives for doing the same thing and no way to choose between them.



XYZPDQ Problem: You ask how to do X and after suggesting or getting an answer Y, you get four alternatives that would be more efficient regardless of whether that is important to you or not. Humor aside, as Not_a_Number said, ++ for giving us an easy way to point someone to their XY Problem. -xdg Code written by xdg and posted on PerlMonks is public domain. It is provided as is with no warranties, express or implied, of any kind. Posted code may not have been tested. Use of posted code is at your own risk.

Re: XY Problem

(Sage) on Apr 11, 2006 at 02:10 UTC by merlyn on Apr 11, 2006 at 02:10 UTC

Then there's always the XYZ Problem : They ask how to do Z, but that's because they think they want to do Y and think that Z will get them there, but really it's because they're a lunkhead, and that's the main (X) problem. Tongue-in-cheek, of course. -- Randal L. Schwartz, Perl hacker

Be sure to read my standard disclaimer if this is a reply.

Re: XY Problem

(Vicar) on Apr 10, 2006 at 18:59 UTC by rhesa on Apr 10, 2006 at 18:59 UTC

And here I was thinking they were referring to my chromosomes! ;^)

Re: XY Problem

(Archbishop) on Apr 10, 2006 at 19:04 UTC by zentara on Apr 10, 2006 at 19:04 UTC

If X and Y fail to please, just move on to the Z's :-) I'm not really a human, but I play one on earth. I'm not really a human, but I play one on earth. flash japh

don't forget prophylactics

Re: XY Problem

(Prior) on Apr 10, 2006 at 19:55 UTC by Not_a_Number on Apr 10, 2006 at 19:55 UTC

Excellent++! We can now post a succinct reply along the lines of "I think you have an XY Problem. You are asking us how to do Y, but ..."

Re: XY Problem

(Parson) on Apr 10, 2006 at 22:39 UTC by eric256 on Apr 10, 2006 at 22:39 UTC

XYP Problem: You posted problem X and inquired about solution Y, but it turns out that you spelled it (P)ERL.

___________

Eric Hodges

Re: XY Problem

(Parson) on Apr 11, 2006 at 15:13 UTC by swampyankee on Apr 11, 2006 at 15:13 UTC

Then there is the (thankfully rare) "my problem is X. I've tried Y." then the respondent gives a perfect solution to an entirely different problem. I think I'm guilty of this, at least once.... emc "Being forced to write comments actually improves code, because it is easier to fix a crock than to explain it. "

—G. Steele "Being forced to write comments actually improves code, because it is easier to fix a crock than to explain it. "

Re^2: XY Problem

(Canon) on May 28, 2007 at 19:33 UTC by blazar on May 28, 2007 at 19:33 UTC

Then there is the (thankfully rare) "my problem is X. I've tried Y." then the respondent gives a perfect solution to an entirely different problem. I'm revising this thread to check whether a particular XY* problem may be here, and if not, then possibly add it: I noticed your entry and it occurs to me that it may be described as an XYℵ problem!

Re: XY Problem

(Bishop) on Apr 10, 2006 at 20:59 UTC by CountZero on Apr 10, 2006 at 20:59 UTC

The ABC of the XY(Z) problem. ++ CountZero "If you have four groups working on a compiler, you'll get a 4-pass compiler." - Conway's Law

Re: XY Problem

(Bishop) on Apr 11, 2006 at 15:14 UTC by jeffa on Apr 11, 2006 at 15:14 UTC

Completely unrelated to Perl (but still maintaining a modicum of relevance to this thread) is the YYZ Problem: you want to play the drum solo from the Rush song, YYZ, but you aren't (and never will be) Neil Peart. :/ jeffa L-LL-L--L-LL-L--L-LL-L-- -R--R-RR-R--R-RR-R--R-RR B--B--B--B--B--B--B--B-- H---H---H---H---H---H--- (the triplet paradiddle with high-hat)

Re^2: XY Problem

(Monsignor) on Apr 11, 2006 at 17:44 UTC by bassplayer on Apr 11, 2006 at 17:44 UTC

s/drum solo/bassline/;

s/Neil Peart/Geddy Lee/;

bassplayer

Re: XY Problem

(Curate) on Apr 12, 2006 at 12:24 UTC by gam3 on Apr 12, 2006 at 12:24 UTC

In case you thought this is a new problem you might want to read the first chapter of Jon Bently's book Programming Pearls (ISBN 0201657880) that was originally published in 1989. In article Cracking the Oyster starts with: "The programmer's question was simple ... my mistake was to answer his question". He then goes on to discuss how he gets at the programmer's real problem. -- gam3

A picture is worth a thousand words, but takes 200K.

New? 1989? I started programming as a H.S. student in 1965 and it wasn't much later that I first encountered and identified the problem of fellow students asking how to do something that wasn't really what they wanted to do. Later, as a professional, I learned that this was codified in the notion of requirements ... something that most hackers don't seem to know much about.

Re: XY Problem

(Chaplain) on Jan 07, 2007 at 00:46 UTC by OfficeLinebacker on Jan 07, 2007 at 00:46 UTC

I didn't even know there was a name for this! There's a guy with whom I work who often responds to my questions with "Why don't you just tell me exactly what you're trying to do?" (meaning I do lots of XY) I just sent him an email and the format of it was I have problem X. Y is the way I think the solution would work, but here's a full explanation of X (and please pardon the verbosity): blah blah blah What do you think? I must admit to a little bit of pride for remembering how he tended to answer my questions and creating a request that (I hope) will result in better communication.

And I think this node is really neat. I like computer programming because it's like Legos for the mind.

Re: XY Problem

(Canon) on May 28, 2007 at 19:32 UTC by blazar on May 28, 2007 at 19:32 UTC

(Late addition) XWTFITL Problem: You want to do X, and you have no clue about how to do it. Instead of asking about X, you ask about... hey, WTF is that letter? (That is, something one can hardly make sense of.)

Re^2: XY Problem

(Initiate) on Sep 24, 2010 at 02:04 UTC by lantfred on Sep 24, 2010 at 02:04 UTC

You ask question X You get solution Y, which is 75% of X, the solution you really need Persevere and you can turn Solution Y into your solution X .....A die hard programmer....

Re: XY Problem

(Curate) on Apr 03, 2007 at 15:27 UTC by Moron on Apr 03, 2007 at 15:27 UTC

This looks like an example case of the open block. -M Free your mind

Re: XY Problem

(Chancellor) on Oct 22, 2015 at 19:09 UTC by shmem on Oct 22, 2015 at 19:09 UTC

Until now, not mentioned: the YZ problem. You are used to qwertz, but, at the console, your server has qwerty. Verz funnz.

Where is the pipe char, damnit? perl -le'print map{pack c,($-++?1:13)+ord}split//,ESEL'

Re^2: XY Problem

(Monsignor) on Oct 23, 2015 at 07:04 UTC by hdb on Oct 23, 2015 at 07:04 UTC

Shift plus bottom row most left key (UK mapping, not sure about US). My solution to the YZ problem is to use an unlabeled keyboard to avoid the eye being misled about the actual key mapping.

Re^3: XY Problem

(Chancellor) on Oct 23, 2015 at 10:00 UTC by shmem on Oct 23, 2015 at 10:00 UTC

(UK mapping, not sure about US). On the US keymap \| are where #~ are on the UK keymap. My solution to the YZ problem is to use an unlabeled keyboard to avoid the eye being misled about the actual key mapping. For the same reason I have a blank keyboard, too ;-) - and I use it mostly in the UK layout, which I found most suitable for perl programming. perl -le'print map{pack c,($-++?1:13)+ord}split//,ESEL'

Re: XY Problem

(Friar) on Dec 21, 2014 at 08:36 UTC by wrog on Dec 21, 2014 at 08:36 UTC

I think my favorite statement/version of this is when it's expressed in the form: Some people, when they have a problem with X say,

"I know! I'll use Y..."

Now they have two problems.

Re^2: XY Problem

(Canon) on Dec 21, 2014 at 17:59 UTC by jdporter on Dec 21, 2014 at 17:59 UTC

Yeah, that's not really the same as an XY problem, though.

What? Yes it is. Plus, it's meant to be funny, and I think it is. It's just a play on a famous quote, one variant of which is Some people, when confronted with a problem, think "I know, I'll use regular expressions." Now they have two problems. http://programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/223634/what-is-meant-by-now-you-have-two-problems

http://regex.info/blog/2006-09-15/247

http://www.xkcd.com/1171/

Re^4: XY Problem

(Canon) on Dec 25, 2014 at 05:32 UTC by jdporter on Dec 25, 2014 at 05:32 UTC

Re^5: XY Problem

(Friar) on Dec 27, 2014 at 10:31 UTC by wrog on Dec 27, 2014 at 10:31 UTC