Michigan member Fred Upton wants to be walked through how defeat devices work. Mr Horn says he's not an engineer but will try to explain them. The VW boss says that cars being tested on a dynameter realise the steering isn't moving and can switch on the defeat devices because of it. Apparently Mr Upton's suggestion that the weight of a driver in the seat - or not as the case may be - is unlikely to trigger a defeat device. Mr Upton wants to know when the cars will be fixed and Mr Horn says the EPA has given owners a pass on being able drive cars which don't meet regulations. Now the lawmaker wants to know what will be done for car dealers who have "lost a boatload" on cars that they can't sell that are sitting on their forecourts. The VW boss says the company is offering a package that totals $1,500 a car for dealers and has also made available a discretionery fund for dealers - he won't say how much it is but the number is "significant". "I'm damn sincere about this, dealer profitability is my number one objective," Mr Horn says. Probably a mistake, to say that.