On this week’s episode of Omnishambles, hosts Jackie Kucinich and Sam Stein welcome The Daily Beast’s national-security and immigration reporter Betsy Woodruff and White House and Trumpworld correspondent Asawin Suebsaeng, the latter of whom Sam and Jackie failed to keep locked in a broom closet during podcast taping, eventually acquiescing to his pleas to get mic’d.

On the issue of President Donald Trump’s proposed big, beautiful, steel (?) wall, Betsy stopped by the show to discuss why the idiotic arguments on border security and immigration are not exclusively the domain of Team Trump and the right. Betsy also breaks down how the conversation about border barriers sounds behind the scenes and in the halls of places like the Department of Homeland Security, as opposed to how they sound splashed across cable news and @realDonaldTrump’s frenetic Twitter.

Sam asks the class if we may be headed for an endgame of a big, secret, invisible Trump wall. Swin ponders that liberals would still hate the “racism wall” if it were made of clay instead of steel or concrete.

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