On CNN’s New Day, Alisyn Camerota interviewed American Conservative Union chairman Matt Schlapp regarding the latest on the Michael Cohen tapes of Donald Trump, the president bashing Robert Mueller on Twitter, and everything in between. In the over ten minute interview, Schlapp played the deflection game repeatedly, but Camerota stayed on top of the topic to get actual responses, such as they were, from him.

In one exchange, Camerota asked Schlapp about the new hot Trump-world take on Cohen, which is that he is and always has been a person of low character and a longtime pathological liar.

The starting question, and the overarching one, was: “is Michael Cohen a confidante or a pathological liar?”

Schlapp right off the bat suggested he wasn’t even really a lawyer, just a PR guy for Trump, and he’s just doing PR work now for himself. So Camerota asked if Cohen was a “fixer.”

When Camerota mentioned paying off a Playboy model as an example of being in the “fixer department”, Schlapp altered the wording and replies that “it’s in the PR, working with media outlets to stop negative stories compartment.”

Camerota didn’t let that slip by, saying that “he wasn’t paying media outlets, he was paying the Playboy model who said that she had an affair with Donald Trump.” Schlapp was forced to agree that was “the ultimate intent” of their work together. He then repeated the talking point that Cohen was just a PR guy trying to squash stories, and not really a lawyer.

Camerota asked a key question. “What does it say about Donald Trump that he had a pathological liar working with him closely for ten years?”

Schlapp deflected again, saying that Trump was shocked to find out Cohen was recording him, and pressed the point that it’s “not a small thing” that Cohen was taping him. “I’d be shocked by it, I’m sure you would be too,” said Schlapp, trying to change the point of the question and avoid answering it.

Camerota brought it back again to the actual question. “But how do you explain that Donald Trump, who prides himself on being able to assess humans was duped somehow by a pathological liar for ten years?”

“It can happen,” said Schlapp.

“Can it? I mean Matt, can it? Have you been around somebody that lied to you for ten years,” she said.

“I have,” Matt surprisingly replied. “It’s very painful when you find out that the person is not the person you thought they were.”

It just got weirder from there, including another rough back and forth over the supposed grudge held by Robert Mueller against Trump over some prior unknown interaction. Watch the whole thing above, courtesy of CNN.

[Featured image via screengrab]

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