Burrfoot Profile Blog Joined July 2012 United States 1176 Posts Last Edited: 2013-01-23 02:56:02 #1



US Forum Link:





With this Follow up response:



Essentially stating, they know about, don't care enough to fix it, and will get to it someday.



Basically, this was an issue discovered soon after launch / late beta by folks creating damage calculators and spreadsheets when they discovered a discrepancy on how certain non-elemental damage weapons of certain types with similar min/max damage ranges were calculated. This lead to an IF statement in most weapon dps calculators.



According to Blue, they discovered the bug officially circa July, between Patches 1.03 (IAS nerf) and 1.04 (Legendary++). It was then listed under the "Known Issues" List : + Show Spoiler + + Show Spoiler +



Thanks for reading, and at this point, I only expect the bug to be fixed at the next MAJOR gear reset - probably the next expansion. When maybe they will buff Elemental Damage to be cool or something.



Original Thread for reference:

+ Show Spoiler +



The bug fix in the PTR 1.07 notes:



(edit: clarification, it is not in the patch notes, but in the 1.07 Known Issues list, which is why it isn't verifiable nerfage on PTR atm :



The main hypothetical reason was to allow the new boosted Red Gems to work properly if they are +150 min and +150 max damage, as it would have varying affects on different weapons unless this "bug" is fixed. (Some weapons would benefit much more than others)



What popular weapons are likely affected by this bug? "Black Weapons" or those with +Min and +Max. But only if their damage range is fairly close - Windforce is a "black" weapon, but is/will not be affected because it's min damage is much lower than its max damage. The way damage calulations have worked with the MinMaxDam affix, was that since the min damage and bonus was added first, if the Base Min + Min affix > Base Max, then the Base Max got set equal to Base Min + Min affix + 1 , and then the Max affix added on top of the new Base Max.



What does that mean exactly? Would probably be best to just show some examples of some popular weapons:



Skorn: May get nerfed from 1428.2 to 1309.8





Echoing Fury: May get nerfed from 1300.2 to 1137.8





Rare Spear: May get nerfed from 1245.6 to 1069.2

+ Show Spoiler +



Rare Wand: May get nerfed from 1304.1 to 1090.95

+ Show Spoiler +



Windforce: Not getting 'nerfed' because the base min damage + min affix is still < base max. Interestingly enough if it did calculate, it would be less damage than on live. (1333 vs 1407)

+ Show Spoiler +



As for your beloved Manticores, WKL, Shenlongs (ok maybe just me), they are not affected because they are ELEMENTAL DAMAGE , and are added after the "black" / base damage is affected.



Manticore: (elemental damage with +31 max)





tl;dr Pay attention to what happens with how Blue responds or addresses this "bug fix" listed above. Your weapons may be worth much much less if it goes thru as suspected.



I took the Echoing Fury example above: and with the +150minmax gem on 1.06 now it would bump from 1300 dps to 1757dps. If the bug is fixed, the 1300 would drop to 1137, but with a +150minmax gem would get boosted to 1442, which is what I suspect Blizz's goals are.



(side note: if the Windforce listed above had a socket, it would then be bugged with the 150 gem and get boosted from 1407 to 1851 bugged, but only 1752 with it fixed)



edit: #2 Adding some additional Info from a post further along the thread: Link



Here is a Link to the "MinMaxDam" affix possibilities Blizzard mentioned:







As the discussion drifted to buffing instead of nerfing, elemental damage weapons being allowed to benefit from +% Damage on weapon would result in this crappy 200k 992.5 dps Shenlong (ignore the socket) to get buffed to 1133 dps (elem damage moved from after to before the 1.5 multiplier )







One important twist in this conversation from the 1.03 Patch:





This could mean that all that will get fixed is the below amulet will change from "+28-57 damage" to +28 Minimum +29 Maximum. There are other discoveries people have made that I should probably mention where a large +min damage bonus from jewelry 'over-whelms' a +max affix and resulting in zero damage bonus. (but only when testing really low level weapons where the affixes are greater than the base damage - but further testing required for confirmation, each value has several hidden #s associated with it)

+ Show Spoiler +



TL;DR edit #2! This is why the topic was titled: POSSIBLE, no one will know for sure if this is what will happen or if this is what they meant by their vague known bug fix wording. Here is a TL;DR post from further in the thread:



On January 22 2013 00:18 Burrfoot wrote:

Decided to summarize the MinMaxDam bug and theorized pending bug fix in this post. This doesn't take into account the Jewelery discrepancy or the disparity between Elemental Weapon damage not benefiting from % Damage like "black weapons" do. This post mostly wants to highlight the reasoning behind the why some believe Blizz will end up fixing the weapon damage someday, if not in 1.07. The bug fix is listed as a "Known Issue" currently in 1.07 and we should all know a by now that a whole lot of known issues make it onto the Live servers and stay that way for months.



This "Known Issue" has been known for ages (since launch), for example, here is the Known Issues List for Patch 1.05





Another example of a known issue since LAUNCH making it all the way until 1.07 to "fix" was the widely known Monk-snapshot. It was discovered on launch, listed as a known issue around 1.03 and finally got fixed on the 1.07 PTR. + Show Spoiler + since launch and not listed in the actual PTR patch notes makes it anyone's guess on to when it will actually get fixed (my money is on Patch 1.12). The main wrinkle is how this issue will interact with the new buffed Rubies, and why I brought it up in this post. Blizzard stated that they wanted Rubies to be an OPTION for certain weapon types, but not the only option . There is some middle ground to play and to me personally, would make sense to require this bug be fixed, as in Blizzard's eyes it would hopefully promote weapon variety and gem variety.







Echoing Fury:

A fast popular weapon. With a +150 gem on 1.06 Live today that would result in a 35% dps improvement from 1300 to 1757. A fix would make the +150 gem be 27% improvement.



Skorn

A slow 2-h weapon. With a +150 gem on 1.06 Live today that would result in a 23% dps improvement from 1428 to 1761. A fix would make the +150 gem be 17% improvement.



Manticore

A slowish 2-h Crossbow, with a significant amount of damage from Elemental. With a +150 gem on 1.06 Live today that would result in a 24% dps improvement from 1372 to 1705. A fix would make the +150 gem be 20% improvement.



Calamity

A VERY FAST 1-h Crossbow. With a +150 gem on 1.06 Live today that would result in a 51% dps improvement from 1111 to 1682. A fix would make the +150 gem be 35% improvement. On live today Calamity Benefits from the bug, but with a +150 gem, will benefit in a pretty massive bonus that would surely make it better than the equivalent Crit Damage Gem.



Shenlong

A FAST 1-h fist, with a significant amount of damage from Elemental. With a +150 gem on 1.06 Live today that would result in a 37% dps improvement from 992 to 1356. A fix would make the +150 gem be 35% improvement. On live today Shenlong DOES NOT BENEFIT from the bug, but WITH a +150 gem, will benefit from the bug, but much less so due to the elemental damage (net 2% vs no bug). Decided to summarize the MinMaxDam bug and theorized pending bug fix in this post. This doesn't take into account the Jewelery discrepancy or the disparity between Elemental Weapon damage not benefiting from % Damage like "black weapons" do. This post mostly wants to highlight the reasoning behind the why some believe Blizz will end up fixing the weapon damage someday, if not in 1.07. The bug fix is listed as a "Known Issue" currently in 1.07 and we should all know a by now that amake it onto the Live servers and stay that way for months.This "Known Issue" has been known for ages (since launch), for example, here is the Known Issues List forSo just the mere fact the the MinMaxDam bug is listed under the Known Issues in 1.07 and was in the gameand not listed in the actual PTR patch notes makes it anyone's guess on to when it will actually get fixed (my money is on Patch 1.12). The main wrinkle is how this issue will interact with the new buffed Rubies, and why I brought it up in this post. Blizzard stated that they wanted Rubies to be an OPTION for certain weapon types,. There is some middle ground to play and to me personally, would make sense to require this bug be fixed, as in Blizzard's eyes it would hopefully promote weapon variety and gem variety.A fast popular weapon. With a +150 gem on 1.06 Live today that would result in a 35% dps improvement from 1300 to 1757. A fix would make the +150 gem be 27% improvement.A slow 2-h weapon. With a +150 gem on 1.06 Live today that would result in a 23% dps improvement from 1428 to 1761. A fix would make the +150 gem be 17% improvement.A slowish 2-h Crossbow, with a significant amount of damage from Elemental. With a +150 gem on 1.06 Live today that would result in a 24% dps improvement from 1372 to 1705. A fix would make the +150 gem be 20% improvement.A VERY FAST 1-h Crossbow. With a +150 gem on 1.06 Live today that would result in adps improvement from 1111 to 1682. A fix would make the +150 gem be 35% improvement. On live today Calamity Benefits from the bug, but with a +150 gem,that would surely make it better than the equivalent Crit Damage Gem.A FAST 1-h fist, with a significant amount of damage from Elemental. With a +150 gem on 1.06 Live today that would result in a 37% dps improvement from 992 to 1356. A fix would make the +150 gem be 35% improvement. On live today Shenlong DOES NOT BENEFIT from the bug, but WITH a +150 gem, will benefit from the bug, but much less so due to the elemental damage (net 2% vs no bug). Thought this topic was worth making for those that don't read the patch notes too carefully. The change isn't active on PTR yet as far as I can tell, but it is something that will likely get addressed, specifically due to the new red gems. I always make a point to cash out before every patch , and this is no different. IAS Nerf, New Legendaries, Monk Snapshot etc, I always believe it was my duty to cash out before something bad happens ( Exhibit A: + Show Spoiler + The bug fix in thenotes:(edit: clarification, it is not in the patch notes, but in thelist, which is why it isn't verifiable nerfage on PTR atm : US Forums Link The main hypothetical reason was to allow the new boosted Red Gems to work properly if they are +150 min and +150 max damage, as it would have varying affects on different weapons unless this "bug" is fixed. (Some weapons would benefit much more than others)What popular weapons are likely affected by this bug? "Black Weapons" or those with +Min and +Max. But only if their damage range is fairly close - Windforce is a "black" weapon, but is/will not be affected because it's min damage is much lower than its max damage. The way damage calulations have worked with the MinMaxDam affix, was that since the min damage and bonus was added first, if the, then thegot set equal to, and then the Max affix added on top of the newWhat does that mean exactly? Would probably be best to just show some examples of some popular weapons:Not getting 'nerfed' because the base min damage + min affix is still < base max. Interestingly enough if it did calculate, it would be less damage than on live. (1333 vs 1407)As for your beloved Manticores, WKL, Shenlongs (ok maybe just me), they are not affected because they areELEMENTAL DAMAGE, and are added after the "black" / base damage is affected.Pay attention to what happens with how Blue responds or addresses this "bug fix" listed above. Your weapons may be worth much much less if it goes thru as suspected.I took the Echoing Fury example above: and with the +150minmax gem on 1.06 now it would bump from 1300 dps to 1757dps. If the bug is fixed, the 1300 would drop to 1137, but with a +150minmax gem would get boosted to 1442, which is what I suspect Blizz's goals are.(side note: if the Windforce listed above had a socket, it would then be bugged with the 150 gem and get boosted from 1407 to 1851 bugged, but only 1752 with it fixed)Here is a Link to the "MinMaxDam" affix possibilities Blizzard mentioned: http://www.d3lexicon.com/affix As the discussion drifted to buffing instead of nerfing, elemental damage weapons being allowed to benefit from +% Damage on weapon would result in this crappy 200k 992.5 dps Shenlong (ignore the socket) to get buffed to(elem damage moved from after to before the 1.5 multiplier )One important twist in this conversation from the 1.03 Patch:This could mean that all that will get fixed is the below amulet will change from "+28-57 damage" to +28 Minimum +29 Maximum. There are other discoveries people have made that I should probably mention where a large +min damage bonus from jewelry 'over-whelms' a +max affix and resulting in zero damage bonus. (but only when testing really low level weapons where the affixes are greater than the base damage - but further testing required for confirmation, each value has several hidden #s associated with it)This is why the topic was titled:, no one will know for sure if this is what will happen or if this is what they meant by their vague known bug fix wording. Here is a TL;DR post from further in the thread: This Thread is no longer valid! Blue has clarified their position:With this Follow up response: Link Essentially stating, they know about, don't care enough to fix it, and will get to it someday.Basically, this was an issue discovered soon after launch / late beta by folks creating damage calculators and spreadsheets when they discovered a discrepancy on how certain non-elemental damage weapons of certain types with similar min/max damage ranges were calculated. This lead to an IF statement in most weapon dps calculators.According to Blue, they discovered the bug officially circa July, between Patches 1.03 (IAS nerf) and 1.04 (Legendary++). It was then listed under the "Known Issues" List : + Show Spoiler + Thanks for reading, and at this point, I only expect the bug to be fixed at the next MAJOR gear reset - probably the next expansion. When maybe they will buff Elemental Damage to be cool or something.Original Thread for reference: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Davlok-1847/career