Adam Britton is trying to talk crocodiles with Bindi Irwin.

Key points: The Queensland Government has introduced legislation to allow crocodile egg harvesting

The Queensland Government has introduced legislation to allow crocodile egg harvesting Australia Zoo is petitioning to have it scrapped

Australia Zoo is petitioning to have it scrapped But scientists say some of the arguments it has put forward are emotional, rather than scientific

But engaging the world's most famous crocodile protector's daughter in a discussion about the crocodile egg-harvesting laws she is striving to discredit has proven difficult.

Last month Bindi called on her 230,358 Facebook followers to sign a petition urging the Queensland Government to repeal its recently introduced law allowing wild crocodile eggs to be collected and hatched on farms.

The 20-year-old said it will be "devastating to the crocodile population to take their babies".

The post received 19,000 likes, 8,227 shares and 1,400 comments on Facebook.

But Dr Britton's comment was not among them.

While he had wanted to point out his eight years of research underpinned the legislation, he says his comment was promptly deleted.

The Australia Zoo fraternity, led by Terri Irwin, has gone on to claim the law will be catastrophic for crocodiles, and that no research has been done on the subject.

In the eyes of Wes Mannion, who appeared on episodes of The Crocodile Hunter with Steve Irwin, scientists who supported the legislation cared about just one thing — killing animals and making money.

Australia Zoo has a significant media reach and has made its position on the issue clear.

While Dr Britton said public debate should be welcomed in science, he believed some of Australia Zoo's views were unscientific, and was concerned they were being so heavily publicised.

"I think having that debate, having that discourse is a good thing because that's what it's all about," he said.

"But if they're just pushing their message and trying to represent that that's the way Australians feel about this then I think that's wrong.

"They're misrepresenting a significant portion of people who are interested in conserving crocodiles."

Adam Britton carried out research on Queensland's crocodile nesting habitat. ( ABC News: Emily Smith )

'Ideal for an egg harvest'

The Queensland Government first looked at bringing in crocodile egg harvesting legislation in a bid to emulate the "sustainable harvesting" strategy that has created a $100m crocodile skin industry in the Northern Territory.

Crocodile expert Dr Grahame Webb said the idea first came about in the early 1980s when, after two deadly crocodile attacks, public support for the species' protection was starting to wane.

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That changed when egg-harvesting laws were brought in, providing a financial incentive for the apex predator's continued existence.

Egg collectors can now earn $20-$30 an egg or about $1,000 a nest after bringing them from the wild to crocodile farms, with a Territory-wide harvest limit set at 120,000 eggs a year.

The eggs are then hatched on the farm and raised for the eventual export of the crocodile skin.

Under this model, crocodile numbers have gone from critically low to carrying capacity in the Territory — indicating a full recovery.

Asked why taking the eggs didn't reduce numbers in the wild, Dr Webb said this was because the egg stage was a naturally vulnerable part of the crocodile life cycle, with many not surviving.

That is what Dr Britton found during his research — that the majority of nests in 10 major river systems flooded every year, killing all the eggs.

Dr Britton's company Big Gecko won the Queensland Government tender to determine whether the model could be supported by Queensland populations.

In the Cape York community of Pormpuraaw and with the help of the Pormpuraaw Land and Sea Rangers Group, they studied crocodile populations and nests.

"We are not affiliated with the government, we were not affiliated with the industry," Dr Britton said.

"We wanted to make sure it was done in an objective manner and basically we're just looking at the science."

He said they found crocodile populations in the area were fairly low density but stable, and that there was a reasonable amount of nesting habitat.

"But the main finding which was consistent every single year, was that all of this nesting habitat, with one or two exception, always got flooded," he said.

"And all of the eggs in the nest, they all die.

"So within a certain period we said look, any egg that goes down, any nest that goes down in these areas, within this time frame, is almost guaranteed not to survive.

"So that is ideal for an egg harvest.

"You're not affecting the wild population because none of them were going to survive in the first place."

Crocodiles were hunted to the brink of extinction in the Territory. ( Supplied: Crocodile Hunt )

His research, which has not been made public, was passed to Dr Laurence Taplin from James Cook univeristy, who reviewed the results.

Dr Taplin's report was then reviewed by the Crocodile Specialist Group from the IUCN, who both found crocodile egg harvesting could be conducted sustainably in Queensland if done in a careful and controlled way.

His review made specific recommendations for monitoring and oversight, noting there has been very little other research into crocodile nesting in Queensland.

The Queensland Government legislation will allow 5,000 eggs per year to be harvested, far short of the 120,000 Territory egg-harvesters are permitted to take.

It also mandated that any application for a harvesting licence must be supported a "report of research, conducted by an appropriately qualified person, about the state of the local crocodile population".

"It has to provide a certain minimum amount of data so a decision can be made on what a suitable quota might be. We do exactly the same thing in the Northern Territory," Dr Britton said.

'Their philosophy revolves around killing crocodiles'

The person put up to speak about crocodile-egg harvesting by Australia Zoo's media team, Wes Mannion, believes wildlife harvesting will destroy the environment in every scenario.

"There's two ways to look at wildlife," Mr Mannion began.

"So here's the Australia Zoo way: You buy a whale boat and you go out and you bring in tourists and you look at whales and you photograph them and you raise revenue from that.

"Then there's the people … who have the theory … you go out in a boat, you go down to the Southern Ocean and you kill as many whales as you can and then you drag them in and then you make the money from that.

"That's their method."

Wes Mannion says Australia Zoo does not support crocodile egg-harvesting. ( Supplied: YouTube / Mark Furler )

In his eyes, any example of wildlife harvesting represented an unacceptable ethical compromise and the triumph of financial greed over conservation.

He also said he would "totally disagree" with claims any studies had been done ahead of the Queensland legislation, saying "there has been no studies done on populations of crocodiles for years now".

He also believed comparing Queensland and Northern Territory crocodile populations was like "chalk and cheese".

"To be able to say you can take any eggs out of the wild at this point in time in Queensland is just pseudo-science," he said.

His scepticism extended to the crocodile-egg harvesting model in the Territory.

"Just think about this: crocodiles live one generation, 70 to 100 years," he said.

"So they've been farming crocodiles and taking eggs for 30 years.

"I think we'll probably find that you know, it's probably not all shiny."

Yet the International Union for Conservation of Nature (IUCN) — an organisation Mr Mannion also has his doubts about — said the model is helping Indigenous rural communities around the world earn money and value the deadly predators they live alongside.

Mr Mannion admitted he would probably be sceptical of any science that called his philosophy into question.

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Asked whether that was a questionable position for an organisation with the media reach of Australia Zoo, he said "not at all".

"And that's why we're the leaders in crocodile research in Australia," Mr Mannion said.

"Our crocodile research is bigger than anything that's happening at the moment in Australia and if not the world."

When asked whether comments had been deleted from Bindi Irwin's Facebook page, Mr Mannion said it is "everyone's right to not have people that are bullying" or "people with ideas that are totally left of field" on their page.

He went on to suggest the ABC speak to some of the "true leading crocodile researchers" in Queensland, and not "people from the Territory".

"Their philosophy revolves around killing crocodiles," he said.

"And one of the researchers in particular, has personal gain from it. Because he has a crocodile farm."

Dr Grahame Webb, one of the champions of crocodile harvesting in the Territory, does indeed own a crocodile farm.

However Australia Zoo also parlays its brand into a range of commercial enterprises, including TV shows, movies, entertainment gigs, and their privately-owned zoo.

On Saturday, Bindi Irwin posted to her hundreds of thousands of Facebook followers about her mum's "brand new clothing line" called Terri's Crocodile Collection.

Australia Zoo recently told its separate set of Facebook followers about its new Crikey Cafe and the USA finale of television show Crikey! It's the Irwins.

The Australia Zoo Wildlife Warriors recently promoted the Irwin's appearance on an American talk show hosted by Jimmy Fallon and advertised a subscription to Crikey Magazine, promising all profits would benefit conservation.

But Mr Mannion denied it received any kind of benefit, to it's bottom line or its brand, in speaking out against the egg-harvesting legislation.

"How would we get money from the protection of crocodiles?" he said.

Eggs inside a crocodile's nest at Malacca Swamp, south of Darwin. ( ABC Radio Melbourne: Clare Rawlinson )

'There's always room for more research'

The University of Queensland's deputy head of biological sciences Craig Franklin, who has also worked extensively with Australia Zoo, has voiced his concerns about the legislation.

Terri Irwin speaks out about Queensland's crocodile egg harvesting legislation. ( ABC News )

While he was unavailable to comment on this story — his out-of-office email said he is "on a ship in the Southern Ocean" — he told Australian Geographic magazine he wanted to see more scientific data about Queensland crocodile populations to back up the legislation.

"Without understanding decadal population trends it is not possible to determine if egg collection will have an impact," he said.

However Dr Taplin, who has worked on and off with crocodiles since 1978 and reviewed Mr Britton's work, said the essential science of egg harvesting had been extensively studied around the world, giving him confidence the "modest proposal" in Queensland would be sustainable.

"There's always room for more research," Dr Taplin said.

"And I don't think any scientist would ever be comfortable that as much research as they would like to be done has been done.

"But the essential science of egg harvesting and the practical demonstration in the Northern Territory — that very high levels of egg harvesting in an Australian population can be sustained without any evident detriment to the population — provides a solid basis for what in Queensland is in fact a very modest proposal for harvesting of just 5,000 eggs statewide."

The Queensland Department of Science said no egg harvesting proposal will be permitted without detailed scientific monitoring of local crocodile populations to show they would not be harmed.

To obtain a license, applicants must engage a "suitably qualified person", such as a research scientist with experience with crocodiles, to research crocodile populations in the area.

A department spokesperson said the harvesting licence would not be granted unless it is satisfied local crocodile populations will not be adversely affected.

To date, the only egg harvesting licence granted is for harvesting within the Pormpuraaw Aboriginal Shire.

Pormpuraaw traditional owners Clinton William, Glen Simpson and Gavin Kendall say they are all for crocodile egg harvesting. ( Supplied: Robbie Morries )

Mr Mannion said the Cape York Traditional Owners he knew found the idea of crocodile-egg harvesting "abhorrent".

"They see them as their ancestors. So do you really think they want to go out and cut their ancestors?" he said.

But Dr Britton said there were different opinions about crocodile egg-harvesting between Traditional Owners and clan groups across northern Australia.

"You can find Aboriginal people who are critical of it, you can also find Aboriginal people who are very supportive of it," he said.

"So if you want to cherry-pick the kind of people whose opinion you quote, then sure that's the argument you can put forward.

"But there's definitely a lot of support out there from a lot of Traditional Owners for this harvest."

Pormpuraaw Land and Sea Rangers Group's senior rangers Clinton William and Gavin Kendall and environmental health officer Glen Simtson said they believed the legislation would create jobs at their local crocodile farm.

The group helped Dr Britton with the research that underpinned the new egg harvesting legislation, and said they had seen first hand the flooding and overheating that killed many of the eggs in their area.

"We go down for meetings for all the rangers in Queensland in Cairns, with all the other ranger groups in the Cape," Mr Kendall said.

"It's got the full backing of other ranger groups in the Cape. It's not just Pormpuraaw."

Call for public discussion with 'basis in science'

Australia Zoo is currently petitioning to get the crocodile egg-harvesting legislation scrapped.

Asked how he felt about that, Dr Taplin pointed out that he wouldn't like to criticize the organisation, given all they had done for crocodiles.

But he said it would be best if public debate about the practise was kept to discussion points with a scientific basis.

Australia Zoo is currently petitioning to get the crocodile egg-harvesting legislation scrapped. ( ABC Capricornia: Megan Hendry )

"There are times when I find myself quite aligned with [Australia Zoo's] views because there are a lot of detractors of crocodiles in Queensland and having people to stand up for the crocodile at times is important," he said.

"[But] If you want to have an argument about the adequacies or inadequacies of science it would be best to make sure that the propositions that we're arguing over are ones that have some basis in science.

While Dr Taplin said he shared concerns about crocodile conservation, he said "egg harvesting is not one that keeps me awake at night".

Dr Britton believed some of Australia Zoo's rhetoric was driven simply be emotion.

"I'm very, very happy to engage in debate with anyone about it," he said.

"Some of it's also down to philosophical differences and I don't think you can necessarily solve those philosophical differences.

"But as long as people come forward honestly and say 'This is why we criticise this' then that's a lot better than trying to make up facts about the science which are just not true."