He claimed that, when his family moved, the man followed and sexually abused him in his new town, which he did not name. He also claimed he was abused by the man, after he left home, on a cattle property near Gympie. Hard man: John Laws told Brian to change his attitude. Credit:Janie Barrett "I can bet your life that he's had other young fellas out there and done the same thing to them too," Brian said of the man. Laws proceeded to conduct the interview in a hostile tone, hectoring the man about why he had not reported the incident at the time, and why he had not fought back against his alleged assailant. "Brian, we're talking about a very long time ago," he said.

"Where were your parents?" Laws asked. When Brian said he had not told his parents, Laws incredulously asked why. "There was no such thing as family love," said Brian, as he started to cry. As the interview went on, Laws continued his hard line of questioning. "Haven't you found people to give you love in your life since you left home?" Laws asked "No, no one," Brian replied. "I live on me own."

As far as relationships go, the abuse "just turned me off it altogether", Brian said Although Laws tried to cheer the man up, and asked whether he felt better having talked about it, a negative response earned Laws' ire. "In other words, we've wasted each other's time. I'm sorry, I would have thought you'd have felt a little bit better after you'd have got it off your chest," he said "I'm not interested in talking to human beings at all, actually. It'd be better if I could go away and never talk to any of them again, actually," Brian said. Brian said that, in the 1960s and 1970s, he reported his abuse to the police but they "told me to go away and forget about it".

"It's not that they didn't believe me, it's just that they didn't want to do anything about it, that's all," he said. "You're 80 years old, you've suffered for a hell of a long time," Laws said. However, as the interview neared the end, Laws started to tell Brian to cheer up. "Don't be down all the time, don't be a wet blanket all the time, try to have a laugh, go to the pub, have one beer; it's not going to hurt you. "Go to the pub and have a lemonade, for God's sake."

Laws also suggested that Brian could do well with a change of attitude. "You've got to help yourself. God helps those who help themselves. "Smile, be happy," Laws said. Cathy Kezelman, president of Adults Surviving Child Abuse said that, although it was pleasing to show some level of empathy, Laws' "cheer up" views were very unhelpful. "The danger with someone like John Laws is that he has a very broad audience and he's very influential therefore, and if he perpetuates myths at the time when the royal commission [into institutional child sexual abuse] is trying to change societal attitudes and views and educate among other things, tha'ts very counterproductive," Dr Kezelman said.

"There was also definitely a theme of 'pull yourself together'. There was some empathy, which was good to hear, but no understanding of the depth of this man's isolation and why he's so isolated and why he's lost his trust from that primary betrayal," she said. "What it did show is a complete lack of understanding about what it means to be sexually abused as a child - that children are often completely helpless against adult perpetrators, they aren't able to scream and fight - and that's a very common and dangerous myth," Dr Kezelman said. "I'm glad to hear there was some empathy for the way Brian was feeling, but certainly no understanding as to why he was feeling like that, and why he couldn't put a smile on his face and go to the pub and have a drink."