Original Post

CVRIV · Joined Jul 2015 · Points: 0 May 23, 2019 · Unknown Hometown I want to start trad climbing. I have been TR'ing for many many years and just started sport climbing. After having tried sport, I'm absolutely hooked and want more.



Sport is very easy and straight forward in terms of what happens from start to finish, but with trad I'm not understanding what happens once you reach the top.



Lets assume i'm only climbing a single pitch. When I get to the top, what are my options in terms of cleaning the route? The belayer usually follows the leader up and cleans the route right? How do they get back down without having to walk around or sport rappeling? Is there another way to clean the route without having either climber at the top once done?



What are my options?



Ultimately i'd like it to be like sport climbing, where you climb up and then clean coming down.



Thanks.

Lena chita · Joined Mar 2011 · Points: 1,657 May 23, 2019 · OH A lot of trad routes, both single and multipitch, have bolted anchors these days. On those routes your cleaning/lowering is no different than the sport climbing.



In other instances, there is a tree, or a rock that people commonly use as an anchor to rap off of, often with a few slings/rap rings that someone before you has left on the anchor. You should be prepared to replace the old crusty bleached slings with your own, and should carry a knife to cut away/clean up the old tat.



And Sometimes you DO have to walk to a nearby rap station, or even, oh horror, walk down all the way.

CVRIV · Joined Jul 2015 · Points: 0 May 23, 2019 · Unknown Hometown Oh awesome! Thanks. I found a sling around a tree once with a ring on it. Now I know why it was there. Thanks for the info. I appreciate it. I just got all my trad gear in the mail, only waiting for one cam to arrive. I can't wait to give this a go. Thanks again.

Tim Stich · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 1,503 May 23, 2019 · Colorado Springs, Colorado Traddies think you should walk off everything, even if it's low 5th class with death potential. So they usually rap off trees, score the bark all the way around and kill them. Or, they leave about sixty-five layers of multi-colored webbing tat on a chockstone. So, take your pick!

Hamish Hamish · Joined May 2017 · Points: 15 May 23, 2019 · Fredericksburg, VA Seriously though - if you’re gonna rap off of tat, make sure you know how to inspect it for damage. If you’re getting on routes where you know there’s no bolt anchors or walk-off options, be prepared to replace/upgrade tat.

Bill Lawry · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 1,710 May 23, 2019 · Albuquerque, NM CVRIV wrote: Oh awesome! Thanks. I found a sling around a tree once with a ring on it. Now I know why it was there. Thanks for the info. I appreciate it. I just got all my trad gear in the mail, only waiting for one cam to arrive. I can't wait to give this a go. Thanks again. If this thread is a summary of your experience, I say return the gear. Your posts imply you are at the very beginning and so not ready to strike out on your own.



The below post is your’s from one month ago in another thread. Hope you don’t mind. It seems relevant as to where you are at in this game.



CVRIV wrote : Oh I get it! I didnt know people even do that! I don't do that. I read somewhere, maybe I read it wrong, that you can't tie ropes or webbing around trees, because it damages the bark. All I do is just build anchors for TR'ing. I repel down off my gear, not the tree.



I started bringing the vinyl tubing, even though it doesnt make sense to me either, only to show the Rangers, if they even come by, that I'm at least making an effort to keep my rope off the trees.



So for building anchors off trees, we dont need some kind of barrier to go between the rope and tree? But I could be wrong. If this thread is a summary of your experience, I say return the gear. Your posts imply you are at the very beginning and so not ready to strike out on your own.The below post is your’s from one month ago in another thread. Hope you don’t mind. It seems relevant as to where you are at in this game.But I could be wrong.

Daniel James · Joined Aug 2016 · Points: 1,219 May 23, 2019 · Chicago / it's complicated I'll give you an answer in good faith instead of taking the piss out of practices (or you) without actually trying to help. However, I would agree with Bill in that you really should second some more experienced climbers to get an idea of what's going on (and get a feel for gear placements) before going straight for trial by fire of trad leading. Lena chita gave you a good answer, and I'll just elaborate a bit more and directly answer some of your questions.



On some routes, the anchor may be set up in a way that you can set up a top rope with two quickdraws or sling+locker, and allow you as the leader to get lowered and belay from the ground. Obviously only do this if you have enough rope for the route length and if the anchor is positioned so that the rope can run cleanly. Your second would be belayed up, cleaning the gear, and then would set up a rappel on the fixed anchor and come down (theoretically they could be lowered as well, but mind the local ethic). If your belayer does not want to climb the route, you can go in direct at the top and set yourself up for a rappel (definitely with a prusik) or maybe to be lowered and then clean your gear as you come down. Make sure a route is straight up/down enough below the anchor for this to be feasible before committing to this plan.



Other times, you will have to build an anchor or utilized a fixed anchor at the top that you, the leader, will have to attach yourself to and belay your second up from the top of the route. Once your second gets to the top, having cleaned your gear, you would each rappel down if there is a fixed anchor, or walk off if there is not. Worst case of your second being unable to get the route but there not being fixed gear would be to rap off of your anchor, clean the route, and go up the walk off to retrieve your anchor (same procedure for doing a top rope on a gear anchor essentially).



As others have stated, if there is a fixed anchor, inspect it thoroughly and be ready to back it up/replace slings.



How do they get back down without having to walk around or sport rappeling? No matter what, there's going to have to be either a walk off or a rappel down for at least one of you, probably both (unless the anchor is suitable for a lower off).



Is there another way to clean the route without having either climber at the top once done? I am a little bit confused by what you could be envisioning here, though I suppose the leader cleaning their route on rappel off fixed anchors is 'another way' when applicable.



I can't wait to give this a go. Seriously make sure you have an idea of what you are doing before jumping into this semi-blindly. If at all possible, find people who have trad experience to climb with and second them a bit, and ideally have someone who knows what's up second you on early trad leads. If that is not at all possible, really make sure you read up and actively understand what you are doing. There are plenty of resources out there, many books and sites. I personally like No matter what, there's going to have to be either a walk off or a rappel down for at least one of you, probably both (unless the anchor is suitable for a lower off).I am a little bit confused by what you could be envisioning here, though I suppose the leader cleaning their route on rappel off fixed anchors is 'another way' when applicable.Seriously make sure you have an idea of what you are doing before jumping into this semi-blindly. If at all possible, find people who have trad experience to climb with and second them a bit, and ideally have someone who knows what's up second you on early trad leads. If that is not at all possible, really make sure you read up and actively understand what you are doing. There are plenty of resources out there, many books and sites. I personally like VDiff Climbing a lot, it's a very useful site providing free illustrated climbing information, though it is from a British climber so there will be some differences from what's most common in the States.

master gumby · Joined Jan 2016 · Points: 262 May 23, 2019 · Unknown Hometown CVRIV wrote:

Ultimately i'd like it to be like sport climbing, where you climb up and then clean coming down.



I'm sorry but if you want it to be like sport climbing, I respectfully think you should stick with sport. Trad climbing is not sport climbing and many fight to keep the ethics in tact and not have sport climbing ethics invade the discipline. If you want "sport trad" go to Indian creek If you want "sport trad" go to Indian creek

CVRIV · Joined Jul 2015 · Points: 0 May 23, 2019 · Unknown Hometown Thanks to all those who gave me the information I was seeking.



I was most definitely expecting and waiting for all the "other" posts as well. It's to be expected every time I post here. I'm not going to waste my breathe arguing with anyone here about my abilities. All I have to say is that I'm still alive and very much self taught.



To the person who asked if I have a PAS, I have many. I've I literally just recieved all my trad gear in the mail. Purchased 1200 beans worth of stuff and within a next few weeks Im gonna do this. I just ordered 6 rap rings just incase. I need them at the top to install/ replace.



Won't stick to sport just because I want my trad to end like sport. I'm not a purist. Ill admit that. Don't care.



Have a nice day everyone! It's gonna be nice out this weekend on the east coast, by me at least.

sclair · Joined Jan 2012 · Points: 30 May 23, 2019 · SLC, Ut CVRIV wrote:



To the person who asked if I have a PAS, I have many. I've I literally just recieved all my trad gear in the mail. Purchased 1200 beans worth of stuff and within a next few weeks Im gonna do this. I just ordered 6 rap rings just incase.



How many?

How many?

master gumby · Joined Jan 2016 · Points: 262 May 23, 2019 · Unknown Hometown CVRIV wrote:

Won't stick to sport just because I want my trad to end like sport. I'm not a purist. Ill admit that. Don't care.



Plz stick to sport climbing then. I am curious for your motives for wanting to trad climb?