Zsolt Bayer is a popular Hungarian journalist and opinion writer. László Földi is a Hungarian intelligence analyst. Both men have been featured here in the past. In the following discussion from Hungarian TV, they are both on-screen at the same time, with Mr. Bayer as the host.

Their wide-ranging discussion focuses on issues concerning the Great Migration into Europe, and the maneuvering of the Great Powers in relation to it. Both men are optimistic about the election of Donald Trump. President Trump, unlike any other candidate of either party who might conceivably have been elected, is not beholden to any special interests, and so is able to act in the best interests of his country. Mr. Földi foresees a pragmatic deal being cut between Mr. Trump and Vladimir Putin, one that will not be infected by any of the traditional neocon obsession with “nation-building”, “exporting democracy”, etc. (the Hungarians call it neo-Liberalism, but it’s more commonly referred to as “neo-conservatism” here in the USA).

I’m obligated to note that in the last five minutes of this discussion, László Földi refers to the shadowy “interest groups” that stand behind Western politicians, and even behind George Soros. I’m not Hungarian, so I’m unable to recognize any subtle clues that might be detected his expressions and references, but it seemed possible that he was using coded language to refer to the Jews, in the same spirit that the (((triple parentheses))) are used on Internet forums.

CrossWare, who made the epic effort to translate this discussion for us, assures me that this is not the case. Since she is Hungarian, I will take her word for it. However, I will pre-empt any nastiness in the comments by reminding everyone that Dymphna and I do not put up with any fights about those evil JOOOOOOS. Such comments will be cauterized before they destroy the thread; I guarantee it.

The issues discussed in the video — the resolution of the status of Jerusalem, the “two-state solution”, and related issues — are on the table, but not the Elders of Zion. There are plenty of sites where aficionados can wade into that swamp, but this is not one of them. I had my fill of all of that brouhaha many years ago.

Many thanks to CrossWare for the translation, and to Vlad Tepes for the subtitling:

Transcript:

00:10 Good evening. You are watching the Deep Hungarian. My guest tonight is László Földi,

00:14 a security and political expert, whom I would like to welcome here with deep respect. — Thank you.

00:18 And let me congratulate you on your new book,

00:22 which has been published and is now in the stores,

00:26 about the migration, which we will talk about now. [Wordplay in the title: migRATIOn — translator]

00:30 I don’t think I will surprise anybody if our topic for tonight will be that.

00:34 Donald Trump is at this moment —

00:38 while this recording is played on television —

00:42 being officially inaugurated into the presidency.

00:46 Who a couple of days ago gave a long interview

00:50 to the German magazine Bild,

00:54 and the Times Magazine also published it and created quite a scandal.

00:58 Because among other thing he sent a message,

01:02 to Angela Merkel,

01:06 with laconic brevity he said the following:

01:10 Germany’s and Angela Merkel’s migration politics

01:14 are a catastrophic error, and a mistake.

01:18 Does this mean that there will be some kind of radical shift,

01:22 in German migration politics, as now

01:26 the new President of the United States is sending a message that this is a mistake?

01:30 For there to be any change, obviously, the person of Angela Merkel

01:34 is one of the biggest obstacles. If we were to see

01:38 her do a 180-degree turn, then why she did do

01:42 what she has done thus far? But it’s very interesting,

01:46 that Trump, who just got into politics,

01:50 who was not well-informed before, utters a sentence,

01:54 that in the last year and a half, or at least in the past year,

01:58 was absolutely obvious, except for the ruling elite,

02:02 from Washington to Brussels to Berlin.

02:06 This is not about those who misunderstood the situation,

02:10 and have been saying this for long time now, that this political direction is

02:14 a catastrophic error for the whole of Europe and not just for Germany.

02:18 Because that was very clear.

02:22 We got an answer to our question with this statement —

02:26 which many people ask me on different forums, in meetings —

02:30 Mr Földi, tell me, did the intelligence services have no information,

02:34 for the leaders of Europe, that this invasion presents an extreme danger?

02:38 And I always respond: Yes, we had information.

02:42 But when politics is built on ideology,

02:46 then it does not matter what information is presented

02:50 by the intelligence community; politics will continue on its path,

02:54 designed by itself using ideologically-based decisions.

02:58 So, we will return later in our talk

03:02 to the United States, but for now I would like to jump over

03:06 to the other side of the world: Turkey.

03:10 Recently,

03:14 it looks like the main strike-point of terrorism

03:18 concentrated in or moved over

03:22 to Turkey. Of course, we can immediately mention

03:26 that horrible terror attack in Berlin just before Christmas; however,

03:30 in Turkey it looks like a terror event is occurring daily or weekly,

03:34 quite brutal ones, for example the New Year’s Eve attack; but

03:38 since then smaller or larger attacks have been happening regularly.

03:42 Is this some kind of strategic change

03:46 by the Islamic State or its sympathizer organizations,

03:50 to try to destabilize Turkey,

03:54 and achieve their goal, to force

03:58 Turkey to terminate

04:02 its treaty with the EU?

04:06 At least they create a filter of some sort, to keep back

04:10 many migrants eager to make it to Europe.

04:14 Or it is just simply the fact

04:18 that Turkey is weak and they cannot defend

04:22 and protect themselves? The question is

04:26 not simple, but rather complex. Let’s look at it backwards. Turkey

04:30 not inspired by what pressure the Islamic State is try to place on them,

04:34 but by how they can enforce their interests on Europe.

04:38 They still believe that based on their position

04:42 they will gain EU membership, or at least

04:46 they can achieve visa-free status.

04:50 That is why the craziness we witnessed in 2015-2016 isn’t continuing

04:54 towards the European Union as an invasion.

04:58 I do not believe that pressure from the Islamic State would increase that,

05:02 But if you would allow me, I’d like to reflect the terror act in Istanbul [New Year’s Eve],

05:06 and I would like to return to that. For me that made it clear

05:10 what is going on concerning this issue.

05:14 Everybody talks about how it was another act of terror. Even me, for a while.

05:18 NO: These are a series of military actions

05:22 employing different techniques and tactics, like truck attacks

05:26 or molestation on New Year’s Eve or volunteer suicide bombers,

05:30 or people wandering around with machine guns. This is one method

05:34 from a series of assaults executed by soldiers.

05:38 Similar attacks have already popped up here and there in Europe too.

05:42 What conclusion did I draw, and what strengthened my logic

05:46 after the Istanbul attack? Because it was not a terrorist,

05:50 but a family man. All news sources reported

05:54 that he brought his whole family: wife and two children. — His 4-year-old son was there when

05:58 he was arrested. — Yes, he brought the whole family with him.

06:02 The terrorist in the terminology that was defined and used

06:06 is someone who has mental problems in some way,

06:10 but always a lonely, neglected type of person,

06:14 who has nobody, no family, no relatives, or even a cat, perhaps a dog.

06:18 Most of the time an orphan who then got pushed by some ideology

06:22 to kill, but that is not true in this case.

06:26 Here he is a family man, and this point makes it even more frightening,

06:30 because let’s just think it through.

06:34 I have explained many times that in the invasion, many thousands of Muslim soldiers

06:38 arrive in Europe with different tasks. Some of them

06:42 are there to blow up stuff; others build networks, and some of them just integrate

06:46 into society and when the time comes, will subvert it and become active

06:50 and will try to take power.

06:54 These people are looking for a new living space (lebensraum).

06:58 From this moment it is perfectly clear

07:02 that among the two million people who arrived here, ANYBODY

07:06 is part of the military machine: little, big, young or old. Why?

07:10 Because a family man shows up at the end of the story,

07:14 and not a mentally disturbed loner.

07:18 They believe that what they do has a goal,

07:22 a purpose, which will benefit their family.

07:26 So they are looking for a new living space in the world.

07:30 If we think about the example of Turkey, let’s keep in mind

07:34 that a huge mass of people are presently in the refugee crowd,

07:38 mostly from Syria. Some portion of those

07:42 will integrate into Turkish society, because if they have job skills,

07:46 if they represent some required skills, the Turkish economy will suck them up,

07:50 which provides a serious economic benefit and profit from the refugee “business”,

07:54 spins the GDP; but most of them are not that type.

07:58 Most of them just loiter around in the various camps,

08:02 Their radicalism is a natural process and result of that.

08:06 The frustration can’t be handled for long in a normal way.

08:10 If peace — in its classical meaning — is not brought soon,

08:14 and it won’t be possible to tell them, “Please go back now,

08:18 because there is no reason anymore for you to stay here,”

08:22 those people will radicalise, and it does not matter what ideology influences them.

08:26 And family men — fathers — will step up, as opposed to classical terrorists.

08:30 Now as you say this,

08:34 I had not thought this through before, but it really is grisly,

08:38 and now what you just said made me think back,

08:42 what additional things we knew about him since they

08:46 arrested this man… And what we knew

08:50 before. It is a very interesting thread that they said for a long time,

08:54 that he is of Uyghur nationality — I think that was not a coincidence —

08:58 The Uyghurs inside China, they are trying to

09:02 gain autonomy for themselves, and they might

09:06 try to blame the Uyghurs.

09:10 When he was arrested we found out that he was an Uzbek, and not a Uyghur.

09:14 What kind of information came over the television?

09:18 He said the following — as far as we know —

09:22 he is an Uzbek with serious military training,

09:26 He also spoke four different languages.

09:30 Really, when we talk about a “simple” terrorist, this is not what we expect;

09:34 not many of them are running around with such language skills.

09:38 I assume those four languages, possibly there was a world language, and even the use of words was

09:42 interesting — at least for me — because based on his statement — they shared with us —

09:46 the Turkish police, he phrased it:

09:50 He was sent here for exactly this purpose and he got his orders from Raqqa,

09:54 and he had a long coordination with them, because

09:58 originally he wanted an explosion in Tahrir Square, but there were too many police present,

10:02 and finally he agreed with his handler from Raqqa,

10:06 and found this place. — But really,

10:10 now thinking it through, based on what you said in the last couple of minutes,

10:14 I start to see the story in a completely different color, on the other hand.

10:18 How the hell can an Uzbek preparing for mass murder

10:22 coordinate at length with his

10:26 commander in Raqqa? This also brings up some interesting questions.

10:30 At least for me as a civilian.

10:34 The core of the problem: we can’t get rid of the logic

10:38 that we have a state of peace and

10:42 in it there just happen be some terrorist groups, elements,

10:46 which we may get used to… NO!

10:50 This is war! A very easily, clearly definable war.

10:54 I have mentioned this numerous times. We started it.

10:58 So NATO arrives into a country,

11:02 To Afghanistan, Iraq and Syria. In this situation,

11:06 a conflict erupts — in Libya too — Yes that too,

11:10 and after this, it never gets normalized.

11:14 It escalates, and undesired effects start to pop up,

11:18 in the home of that country — NATO members — that started the conflict.

11:22 Which is Europe, which is astonished by it.

11:26 When the Second World War started, everyone in Hungary knew —

11:30 even the effects of war were not really

11:34 perceptible here until 1944 — that Hungary was at war.

11:38 We knew it might have consequences, and they had bombings then etc.,

11:44 but there was a simple difference. We were able to calculate when you had to be afraid,

11:47 from one o’clock, till 2:30 there were the bombing, so everybody,

11:50 hid in a shelter, and after 2:30 and before 1 o’clock,

11:54 they lived their life. Today this is not the case, because terror attacks

11:58 can happen anytime.

12:02 So the escalation of this otherwise classical war happened in such a way

12:06 that the civilian population, the heartland, is not protected at all.

12:10 Europe is making another huge mistake. Because it does not accept this,

12:14 it cannot defend itself in any form or shape.

12:18 We can talk about this in terms of borders and other issues.

12:22 So the enemy is practically always a step ahead of us.

12:26 Suddenly an executioner shows up, this is the

12:30 assailant in Istanbul, who is bragging while telling the story.

12:34 The minimum that a trained spy or a trained saboteur does

12:38 is either to commit seppuku,

12:42 or keep his mouth shut, and not say it, but almost

12:46 dictating everything, he is really proud, and says:

12:50 “Look at me; I am the soldier; I was able to accomplish such a feat;

12:54 “we are this well organized, logistically, informationally.”

12:58 “In every other way… we are a trained force.”

13:02 “We are soldiers of the Islamic State.”

13:06 even though he only speaks the local dialects, and not world languages.

13:10 Of course he most likely speaks English and Russian, just based on his origin,

13:14 and most likely Arabic, and of course his own tongue.

13:18 But all this is not that interesting. Really, right now this phenomenon,

13:22 that a family man takes the risk,

13:26 kisses his kids goodnight, then he goes for his attack at midnight,

13:30 and then he goes back to his family. When he is caught,

13:34 — of course he tries to avoid capture — but when he get arrested, he proudly

13:38 accepts responsibility. With that he “tunes” the ones beside him or behind him,

13:42 inspires the troops in the background,

13:46 who could be second- or third-generation Muslims,

13:50 — jihad fans — or among the refugees,

13:54 he provides an example to potential comrades in the army.

13:58 This is an extremely dangerous situation, because

14:02 in the history such thing has never happened before,

14:06 and even more concerning is that we can’t even recognize this type.

14:10 I’ve explained it many times, but I must mention to you, too,

14:14 that what I see and miss terribly,

14:18 not that they do not have political answers for this,

14:22 because if somewhere, in Hungary we had political answers for this invasion,

14:26 the strategy against is very clear, but

14:30 we do not have any strategy at all against it.

14:34 For Churchill it was very simple. He just had to say,

14:38 “England is at war” — as he famously phrased it.

14:42 Today we have to say: Europe has been attacked,

14:46 Europe has got into a war, on European territory, too.

14:50 From that comes the simple continuation: We must defend it. Those are simple, short statements,

14:54 clear and easy to phrase. The problems lie in the tactics.

14:58 How we do it, what is possible, what is not.

15:02 Consolidated or not. With cooperation or not. Here come the tactical

15:06 questions. But today we exclusively

15:10 talk about tactics, like: “Do we have cooperation between the intelligence services or not?”

15:14 Which we did not have. The politicians agree that, yes, that was missing, but

15:18 to the basic questions we do not have a proper answer,

15:22 the ones which can be expressed in very short sentences.

15:26 Yes, as viewed from this perspective,

15:30 the situation is a little bit like,

15:34 when I hear after the terror attack in Belgium or whichever one,

15:38 when the responsible politicians stand out and say: “we are not willing

15:42 to change our way of life, we can’t be deterred from our path”,

15:46 “we will continue to do everything, as we did before…” — so if I view this,

15:50 it’s as if Churchill had said

15:54 to the British, when they hear the air raid sirens they should not go to the shelter,

15:58 or the subway, but go to some cafés and drink

16:02 tea there and watch the “light show”.

16:06 Yeah, that sounds about right…

16:10 I would like to return for a bit to the Turks, but since we already crossed

16:14 into Europe and we talked about the Berlin terror attack —

16:18 In the Berlin attack the thing that was

16:22 most shocking for me

16:26 was how the heck that truck was able to get

16:30 to the heart of Berlin, in the biggest Christmas rush,

16:34 to the closed Christmas market and into the pedestrians.

16:38 I simply do not understand that, but the fault must be in me.

16:42 But after that, how the perpetrator, this guy

16:46 — whom, as we learned later, had been watched —

16:50 they knew his connections, knew who he was.

16:54 The intelligence service was watching him because they thought

16:58 he was a risk, a potential terrorist or soldier.

17:02 With all that, he was able to make it to the heart of Berlin,

17:06 with a truck, and days after that,

17:10 he was travelling all across Europe.

17:14 He spent some time in Brussels, then in France for some days.

17:18 Then in Milan, totally randomly,

17:22 he got shot, but only because he pulled a gun

17:26 on the Italian police patrol. If I look at this, it looks like

17:30 we are not totally right in the head.

17:34 If you let me to defend the services a bit, let’s not be that critical.

17:38 The story really looks that way.

17:42 When the attacker committed this act, nobody knew who he was.

17:46 First they do the CSI, they examine what they found,

17:50 so until then, nobody knows. So if he was able to step off the truck,

17:54 of course we do not know where he is, because we do not know who to look for.

17:58 They watched a bunch of video recordings once they knew the perp’s identity,

18:02 which came from the CSI examination and DNA evidence they found, and also he left his ID there,

18:06 this is all part of the process,

18:10 the technique to investigate a case, it’s all part of it. But it is true,

18:14 but this is not the problem. — Well, it is a problem for me,

18:18 how he got there… Yes, you are absolutely right, but let me bring up another

18:22 problem for you, and that will make everything very simple, I hope.

18:26 If, for example, a Serbian illegally crosses into Hungarian territory,

18:30 because his village store runs out of bread, and he wants to feed his starving children,

18:34 and he crosses over to Szeged [major Hungarian city on this side of the border] to buy some,

18:38 he will be arrested and they will file charges against him, because it is illegal to cross

18:42 the border, but if we add another word,

18:46 that it’s illegal but “refugee” then he suddenly

18:50 is exonerated from arrest. This can’t be!

18:54 Now they want to create new laws to make a situation like this permanent. NO! This can’t be!

18:58 The laws must be obeyed. Nobody wanders over borders.

19:02 So suspected terrorists in Germany cannot be deported because

19:06 even when all signs point to it in their investigation,

19:10 because they do not have their original documents,

19:14 from Tunisia, if I remember correctly, so the present laws,

19:18 all the different welfare and other social benefits,

19:22 which laws were not designed for a situation like this,

19:26 so based on that, they were not able to send him back to Tunisia —

19:30 says the present law and social system. But for God’s sake!

19:34 We should not waste our time with this. When we are at war,

19:38 the enemy must be neutralized. When we are at war,

19:42 suspicion is not just suspicion, but proven cause,

19:46 which helps to localize the problem.

19:50 When we are at war, we are not talking about human smugglers, who get defended by star lawyers,

19:54 Who will defend them if someone accidentally gets caught,

19:58 and put in front of a court, but saboteurs, or

20:02 they are spies from this point of view, and are treated as such.

20:06 When the United States entered into the Second World War, after Pearl Harbor,

20:10 All the people of Japanese ethnic background — even the ones born there —

20:14 were locked up — yes they were put into concentration camps —

20:18 yes, until the problem (war) no longer existed between the two countries,

20:22 And no matter whether they felt the emotional and human burden,

20:26 that this was morally questionable, it was wartime, where

20:30 defense has simple rules. The laws and rules adapt to that.

20:34 So what I demand from the politicians, and what I don’t get,

20:38 because political powers are directing the authorities,

20:42 so the beginning as you mentioned it, must be corrected, fast. [letting migrants in — translator]

20:46 Because after that, realistically, it’s impossible to do anything.

20:50 If I have 500 candidates, or if I have 1,000 candidates,

20:54 or even just a dozen, how can I tell beforehand what is will they do?

20:58 How could someone put under 24-hour continuous surveillance?

21:02 I can say it professionally: forget it, this is not possible.

21:06 There is no such thing. If we strictly only talk about a couple of people,

21:10 that would be devastating for the counter-intelligence resource wise,

21:14 but so much more if there are hundreds, thousands. In France they have 13,000 people registered,

21:18 as potential Jihadi terrorists.

21:22 How would be possible to localize all that?

21:26 And to that, let’s add more. We found out

21:30 that in Italy he was convicted of murder

21:34 or attempted murder? Yes, for rape.

21:38 From that moment, I do not understand what he was still doing in Europe?

21:42 He comes out of prison, I put him on the first airplane or boat,

21:46 and you can go back to your land, that would be

21:50 the logical, the natural thing a simple

21:54 small-minded moron like myself would think of.

21:58 So why do we pamper him, then compared with this, when he goes over to Germany,

22:02 and starts a bright new life and he is on easy street. This is just nonsense.

22:06 But as I said, I would like to go back for Turkey a moment here…

22:10 That strange situation comes to play,

22:14 that dream world

22:18 of a secular state by Kemal Atatürk

22:22 in Turkey is slipping more and more in

22:26 a religious direction. The present Turkish leadership and President

22:30 expressed such wishes. If you like, it’s become Islamic,

22:34 of course not in the same way as the Islamic State,

22:38 and others, but this is no longer the same Turkish state,

22:42 dreamed up by Kemal Atatürk, that is for sure.

22:46 Then to add to this, in the summer there was a coup,

22:50 Let’s not talk about whether Erdogan created it himself or

22:54 whether Gülen was behind it; we will not know for a while.

22:58 They explain it both ways;

23:02 they had a pretext and now the authority is in the hand of the President,

23:06 to oppress even more — by referring to this event —

23:10 in all areas of life there.

23:14 Exactly, for that reason or the opposite — both can be argued —

23:18 the danger of terror and terrorism in Turkey

23:22 grows and becomes widespread.

23:26 One would think, where government control is high,

23:30 that would be very difficult. It doesn’t seem to be the case here.

23:34 My question is only — for which I stated my reasoning at the beginning —

23:38 would it be possible a situation where

23:42 terror or military actions — to use your definition,

23:46 what is happening — destabilizes the country,

23:50 critically destabilizes Turkey to an extreme point?

23:54 Including all possible foreseeable

23:58 or unforeseeable consequences,

24:02 I see the situation with the Turks as follows: They follow two strategies.

24:06 One strategy is some kind of

24:10 assimilation situation with Europe,

24:14 that would mean the NATO membership remains and later EU membership for them.

24:18 But there is a secondary strategy, which comes from their historical roots,

24:22 from their conquests, expanding the Turkish living space (lebensraum)

24:26 in every direction, as far from

24:30 the center as possible. I think Turkey is in a very comfortable,

24:34 excellent position at the beginning of the 21st century.

24:38 Because there is an imperative for it to be a NATO member,

24:42 mostly from the USA, because of their bases, also an imperative

24:46 to cooperate with Turkey and not rub their noses in the fact

24:50 they should only remain NATO members as long they defend our borders — the Schengen Area.

24:54 Nobody says this to Turkey, that the Charter of NATO makes

24:58 the defense of member states mandatory. Yes, this is true.

25:02 So this is a very positive thing from their perspective. But I think the Turks

25:06 entertain notions of how they can

25:10 take control of Europe. They need two things for that,

25:14 the stabilization of their sphere of interests in European territory,

25:18 and a mass base, on which they can build their structure.

25:22 Even the daily political theory. So for them

25:26 it is not the question of whether the masses will be pushed across

25:30 from the Turkish side, or even to increase the pressure,

25:34 because they always had issues with the Kurds in the past.

25:38 They always had conflicts, but it didn’t receive so much media attention.

25:42 It could not be blamed on the Syrian conflict.

25:46 Everybody handled this as an internal Turkish affair, including Turkey.

25:50 And they had their showdowns, whenever and whoever could do it,

25:54 But today is different, because Turkey had a moment where,

25:58 I do not know when — I hope will not happen — when Turkey became interested

26:02 in letting the masses to flood this way again. This

26:06 will happen if they think their first strategy, integration, is failing,

26:10 and the possibilities for agreement recede further… Erdogan’s behaviour shows this perfectly.

26:14 He constantly provokes the EU, adding such conditions

26:18 that make EU membership impossible.

26:22 Starting from the abuse of human rights and the questions about specific laws,

26:26 Ignoring important laws… —Like restoring the death penalty. —Precisely.

26:30 So I think he will stretch the string as much as he can manage.

26:34 He has nothing to lose from the Turkish side, which makes the Turks very dangerous,

26:38 So I trust very much,

26:42 that a Trump-Putin

26:46 story will not be about

26:50 “world peace” or how to get rid of nuclear weapons,

26:54 not even about economic sanctions,

26:58 how fast they will disappear, but what will happen with Turkey.

27:02 How the two of them can hold back Turkey and force a third strategy on it,

27:06 Telling it, Turkey, you must accept

27:10 that in Europe you have only a small island,

27:14 Istanbul and its environs, and the rest is in Asia,

27:18 and this status quo will not be disrupted.

27:22 We will not let you do it, because both powers have an interest

27:26 in keeping the present Turkish positions. But also I can mention

27:30 that they are both concerned that Europe not be wiped from the map,

27:34 and should remain in its present form, but for the Turks this is not the case.

27:38 Trump and Putin, or if you like American-Russian relations,

27:42 I would like to return to that, but something drew my attention,

27:46 what you said in the beginning of this question, which is

27:50 that conquest is coded into Turkey,

27:54 to get more living space. This caught my ear because

27:58 a week ago Miklós Maróth was in your chair,

28:02 a professor, an Orientalist sat there, who

28:06 related some astonishing facts — at least for me they were astonishing —

28:10 I could sum it up in a very brief way:

28:14 Islam by its spirit,

28:18 and in its daily philosophy,

28:22 says that which was once Muslim will stay that way forever.

28:26 As the professor told us here:

28:30 when he has a discussion with Muslims,

28:34 because of course he speak Arabic,

28:38 and he sat down with intellectuals from there, who

28:42 without any problem they told him

28:46 that the ancient Roman empire conquered

28:50 Islamic North Africa. While in actuality

28:54 Islam did not exist at all at the time

28:58 Rome conquered Africa and the local nomadic Berber tribes.

29:02 About a thousand years later the prophet Mohammed was born, and

29:06 Islam began, but for them it does not matter,

29:10 and they think of Europe in numerous issues,

29:14 such as Spain, which was owned by the Moors,

29:18 and to whom it will belong forever. Temporarily these Christians are trespassing,

29:22 but we will be coming back. This fits in very well with

29:26 what you say about the Turks, and if we expand

29:30 this thinking and spirit to the entire Islamic world, then

29:34 it will become truly horrific.

29:38 Well, then, let me increase your feelings of horror even more, because

29:42 I also met Arab intellectuals when I was “travelling” around

29:46 some time ago, and I had exactly the same experience.

29:50 They all see a very simple and clear picture about their present and future,

29:54 and they are not interested in whether anybody else has different plans.

29:58 This is an ideology, but there is money behind it also,

30:02 which supports them and will continue to support them. This is the Arab oil money.

30:06 Because they can’t do anything else but to buy into something,

30:10 or look for investments, when their existing life become impossible,

30:14 because the oil wells are drying up.

30:18 They have to move somewhere else. In which direction they can go?

30:22 It is clear the USA will not accept such logic;

30:26 Australia does not want to hear about it either.

30:30 The other continents are not a good target, because Africa is a disaster,

30:34 In Asia, China would be a hard country to displace. — Oh yes…

30:38 They have a 4,000-year-old history of defending themselves.

30:42 So Europe remains, which will not defend itself, but even lets migrants in.

30:46 They are happy to receive their investments.

30:50 Let’s say the Liberal, Multicultural craziness fully supports this.

30:54 They are sending their investments very consciously.

30:58 They are buying properties and land,

31:02 and to hold power, it is vital to have a mass base that will elect Islamic parties,

31:06 and establish their power through this system.

31:10 I would also point out — and the Professor is also aware of this —

31:14 and I am sure he mentioned it to, that one of our

31:18 strong positions could be, that internally they have a

31:22 situation of serious conflict. I’m not only thinking of Shi’ite-Sunni problems,

31:26 but the Syrian situation is a tribal conflict by its nature

31:30 and an endless quest for power. On this

31:34 we must base some of our strategy, if we want to defend ourselves,

31:38 But the issue that the entire Muslim society agrees on

31:42 is that their living space must be expanded.

31:46 Even though the conquest might take a long time;

31:50 to accomplish the invasion may take generations.

31:54 Let me say some ugly words about what their population growth looks like.

31:58 You wrote about this issue in the past, and we both talked about it,

32:02 So, yes, there is a realistic basis for saying that

32:06 we tolerate how things are at present,

32:10 with a simple mathematical calculation — just like the fall of the Roman Empire —

32:14 the next fall of Europe — Well, from reflecting

32:18 on that knowledge, let’s

32:22 return to the United States and its new President,

32:26 the freshly-inaugurated President Donald Trump.

32:30 In the Bild interview — other than sending a message to Merkel —

32:34 he had another sentence which said:

32:38 “NATO is outdated.” He just barely stopped short of saying that

32:42 it has no meaning in this way, no need to exist.

32:46 So again, the simple layman starts thinking,

32:50 — like me — perks up his head with a knot in the pit of his stomach

32:54 about this. What is the new President of

32:58 the United States thinking? If we eliminate NATO,

33:02 who will defend us?

33:06 Do you think we’ll eliminate NATO, or what do you think? What did he mean by saying it’s outdated?

33:10 I am not thinking about elimination when he says that.

33:14 I think the core of the American change of direction

33:18 foreign policy will be that another American interest group

33:22 has got into power now, as opposed to Obama’s

33:26 and Clinton’s support group,

33:30 The origin of this new group is the same. The US economy

33:34 built on the military industry — I am simplifying a little here —

33:38 because their economy is way more complex than that, but essentially true.

33:42 Without developing and upgrading the US military industry, there will be

33:46 trouble in the economy and it could not provide the same level of well-being for the population.

33:50 In an earlier period, if we look back in history,

33:54 in the last couple of decades, the US provoked wars,

33:58 and this provided the necessary driving force. —Yes, when Lockheed-Martin

34:02 produces the latest generation fighters, sooner or later they must be sold. Yes, exactly.

34:06 It must be tested, and the tests were conducted with budgetary funds.

34:10 Because the government was the primary buyer. I believe Trump is thinking

34:14 about the next phase, and that’s why he picks on NATO.

34:18 The US provides 75%

34:22 of the military power of NATO; 10% is Turkish, and the other

34:26 15% is from all western European countries. All combined.

34:30 Trump says this is not right; we must change it.

34:34 He does not want to use the weapons, he wants to sell them to members of the alliance,

34:38 to make a strong NATO — in the concrete meaning of the word —

34:42 This is where the difference is. —But we could say that this is good,

34:46 it is a great idea. Yes, I think it is a good idea,

34:50 because the goal is not using those weapons, and the conflict gets here,

34:54 — as we can see it now with the invasion, the flood of migrants.

34:58 Bad news partly, because our budget will feel the pain of the extra costs.

35:02 But I strongly feel this is the change that is coming;

35:06 that is why he sent his message: Gentlemen, something must be done with NATO.

35:10 I completely rule out the that he would try to terminate the alliance.

35:14 But let me add to this topic,

35:18 that I myself do not see the meaning of NATO anymore, because it was created

35:22 when there was another bloc to face down: the Warsaw Pact.

35:26 But the world no longer has blocs of power;

35:30 this seems rather pointless. NATO against a nation looks very weird.

35:34 Just as NATO could not do anything against the Iraqi opposition.

35:38 And NATO will not be able to work against the Russians, either.

35:42 Also, when, we talk about Europe, it is a completely different genre.

35:46 So termination is out of the question; rather, I can see that

35:50 this was a market-oriented introduction to the relationship,

35:54 and will see how this works out in practice.

35:58 Hello kids, you should start buying stuff. —I understand.

36:02 This is not that bad; at least this has a decent meaning.

36:06 Let’s continue to follow this trail we started on.

36:10 You phrased it this way: “The moment may come”

36:14 with Donald Trump, when

36:18 he does not want to test weapons and create conflicts,

36:22 in the world, but rather sell,

36:26 and everybody should be strong. From that,

36:30 in a logical way, numerous

36:34 things can come next.

36:38 Maybe the moment is coming now

36:42 when the US will quit the “democracy export business”,

36:46 for which we can thank — as we talked about in this broadcast —

36:50 what happened in the Middle East, what happened in Libya too.

36:54 The chaos, the civil wars, the terrorism,

36:58 the migration flood into Europe,

37:02 the whole invasion and conquest. This all comes from a single

37:06 source, that insane, idiotic American imperialistic

37:10 politics, which used “exporting democracy” as a cover,

37:14 generated conflicts and then got involved in them

37:18 to see what happened. Well, this happened, thank you very much.

37:22 It seems that Trump will put a stop to it. Even if he only

37:26 does this, it was already worth it. But

37:30 the continuation of the previously mentioned

37:34 relationship with Russia, because…

37:38 we can explain all kind of things long and hard.

37:42 In any case, it was a psychotic and crazy

37:46 theory and enterprise,

37:50 specially against a Russia led by Putin,

37:54 to target Russia’s soft underbelly —

37:58 we will just jump in, and the Russians will just

38:02 stay there watching it. That would have been the Ukraine.

38:06 But the plan was there, and Victoria Nuland was

38:10 such a darling to blurt it out, how much they invested in

38:14 to create the “revolution” in Kiev in Maidan Square.

38:18 That was very clearly an American intelligence operation financed

38:22 with many millions of dollars and many strange

38:26 dual-citizenship people in political circles,

38:30 and placed tactically in the government — as we now know perfectly clearly.

38:34 Of course they probably thought, well we need the Ukraine,

38:38 lots of good stuff there, some of the best soil there, mineral resources, etc. etc. etc.,

38:42 and the Russians will just tolerate this. Well the Russians did not tolerate that

38:46 in any way. And, as an example of non-toleration,

38:50 the first stage was, they just knocked nicely and said:

38:54 “Well, now the Crimea will be returned.” They had a referendum,

38:58 just like any NATO member and…

39:02 EU member or any US jurisdiction.

39:06 Kosovo did the same back then; nobody complained about that.

39:10 They could rip Kosovo out of Serbia because the “people” wanted it.

39:14 Well in the Crimean Peninsula, the people wanted it too,

39:18 because 80%-90% of them were Russians who lived there, and they said

39:22 — why would they not say they wanted to belong to Russia? —

39:26 rather than the Ukraine, which was falling apart and had sunk into poverty.

39:30 And since then, this is the source of conflict,

39:34 and of course the situation in East Ukraine.

39:38 and now the eggheads are saying,

39:42 and in the American media it was also presented,

39:46 like they are testing

39:50 what the American public opinion would say, that for Donald Trump,

39:54 reconciliation with the Russians would be next,

39:58 will be about the following:

40:02 Crimea is yours, we will accept it and acknowledge it,

40:06 From East Ukraine we will make an

40:10 autonomous territory, but under your influence;

40:14 this will be the determining factor; we accept this also.

40:18 And in exchange we will ask for a small favour:

40:22 Forever forget about an independent

40:26 Palestinian state in Israel,

40:30 we do not even want to hear about it at all.

40:34 There will not be two Jerusalems;

40:38 There will be only one Jerusalem, and will be in Israel, and it will be chosen

40:42 as the capital, and we will move the embassy over there,

40:46 Symbolically, and everybody — and the Russians will follow, too —

40:50 everybody will shut up, and from now on this is how it will be.

40:54 I think this will be the agreement, and this will be the deal.

40:58 In the same studio we already talked about this, and I

41:02 say this is, for Europe and for Hungary,

41:06 a pretty good bargain. How you see this?

41:10 If we look at it that way, every deal that is good for Europe is acceptable,

41:14 and for Europe the most important position,

41:18 we must create, is to be able to preserve its identity,

41:22 preserve Christian culture, which it has represented for more than thousand years.

41:26 To remain what we are? —Exactly. And whoever comes here, Muslims,

41:30 born here or immigrating here, must observe the system of laws.

41:34 They can privately practice anything, but not above or substituting for that.

41:38 But not by their logic. This is the most important part.

41:42 How the great powers negotiate and make deals is exciting to watch,

41:46 and interesting; concerning Israel, I think another type of game is afoot.

41:50 The rules are coming to the surface and being discussed,

41:54 Because, as you mentioned, “exporting democracy” created anarchy,

41:58 and if we pick out Syria from that list,

42:02 Assad in Syria will stay in power,

42:06 so in Syria there is no change of power,

42:10 not because there is no alternative, somebody could be placed there,

42:14 but because they can’t run the country. — So, yes, if there is no Assad, there is

42:18 no state, no country. —Yes, exactly. These are pretty serious issues,

42:22 consequences of the previous US government’s foreign policy,

42:26 and this required a change of president to become solvable.

42:30 But let me make two comments in relation to this.

42:34 First of all, I believe that in the coming period,

42:38 the formative people for history and politics will not

42:42 be parties, but single persons.

42:46 Let’s review what this previous period was about and this Western style.

42:50 The logic of the Neo-Liberal democracies was this:

42:54 to spread out the responsibility, provide a wide

42:58 system of laws, even for

43:02 minorities and everybody,

43:06 based on societal expectations.

43:10 So to organize it and to operate it correctly,

43:14 they created those civilian organizations; with them the trouble

43:18 was not that these people would join the green movement,

43:22 or rightly fight for human rights.

43:26 Those were not organized and recruited,

43:30 by telling them about the secondary purpose behind the primary one.

43:34 They were doing it with good intentions, while not recognizing

43:38 that they served a well thought-through, remotely controlled,

43:42 systematic influence, a power that wanted to use them to gain control,

43:46 so they served that power’s interests. We can call them parties or

43:50 or economic interest groups, but such an order came into existence.

43:54 I even have to mention the Internet — with my children’s contempt.

43:58 Yes, the Internet belongs here, which has many wonderful applications,

44:02 and it will have catastrophic consequences for this logic,

44:06 because of its influence. Never before in history had there been

44:10 such a strong, intensive influence in the hand of such a small group,

44:14 over all mankind — if I can phrase it that way — like now.

44:18 And this is all because of Internet. Yes the building of

44:22 these networks. So this is why I think,

44:26 if I can talk a bit of catastrophic politics,

44:30 these personalities must pop up.

44:34 We can call them anything, Trump, Putin, anybody,

44:38 but they must be step in to be the new Churchills,

44:42 so they can stop,

44:46 so they can turn back undesired phenomena.

44:50 Because these “parties”, and we can see it everywhere in Europe,

44:54 then can handle this question only verbally (with lip service),

44:58 they do not have strength to step forward meaningfully.

45:02 Europe presently is the worst example, because at the moment,

45:06 if we have an act of terror and the subject of cooperation for defense were to come up,

45:10 immediately there show up in those systems, in the parliaments,

45:14 in the representative system, they would veto this immediately.

45:18 There any decision can be attacked. When we try to build roads, environmentalists appear instantly.

45:22 No road building, because of a frog’s life. I respect the frog’s life, but

45:26 there are problems which must be solved.

45:30 So democracy reached a point in its lifespan,

45:34 which is no longer solvable within the system,

45:38 and we really need people. I do not think Erdogan

45:42 is a capable leader of Turkey, because I think he has personality problems,

45:46 so behind his back I apologize to him, talking from a distance,

45:50 but directing Turkey

45:54 with non-centralized power is impossible.

45:58 Not just when millions of refugees are on their soil,

46:02 not even when there is full peace in their system.

46:06 Because these types of societies want this, that is how they exist.

46:10 And Putin’s 80% popularity level also not

46:14 because the successor organizations of the KGB individually scare the population

46:18 into submission when a poll needs to be filled out,

46:22 but because of the soul of the Russians is built into Czarism.

46:26 This is not good or bad, supportable or blameworthy,

46:30 This is just how it is. Like Hungary does not necessarily like

46:34 the systems in Western Europe, but the order, yes.

46:38 But everybody likes order. I am talking about us simple folks,

46:42 who come and go on the streets and can’t talk about great power politics,

46:46 So everybody likes order, because everyone can adapt to order.

46:50 And in the chaos they can’t find their way.

46:54 These are the consequences, if the great powers,

46:58 — of course representing their people — are able to reach a deal.

47:02 Whether Israel gets a good deal out of it or not is not my concern,

47:06 whether they get something good out of it, but rather whether in Europe

47:10 we can create a proper status quo. But it will be incredibly difficult.

47:14 So let’s not be naïve and believe that in a discussion, even with the great powers,

47:18 it could be simply solved, because

47:22 also experience shows in past decades, too,

47:26 that politicians who reign presently, like Angela Merkel — we started with her —

47:30 do not represent themselves,

47:34 but behind them there are some forces standing,

47:38 most of the political elite is compromised — with very

47:42 little exception — I am thinking about the “developed democracies” —

47:46 where the politicians were transformed into

47:50 absolute puppets, following interests,

47:54 in the hands of interest groups who are not even visible.

47:58 Let’s forget about George Soros. In the meaning of the word,

48:02 he is just a player they show to people.

48:06 He is Hungarian, so he can be berated for that,

48:10 but there are systems behind him,

48:14 which has been said many times — I am not an authority on this —

48:18 a very small percentage of humanity,

48:22 keep the largest portion of the economy in their hands,

48:26 and they think differently than us.

48:30 Maybe part of their thinking is the question of Jerusalem,

48:34 but that is probably a very small slice of those thoughts,

48:38 where they see their long-term strategy,

48:42 these forces, cannot be revealed or explored, cannot be handled,

48:46 they cannot be nailed down with the tools of democracy,

48:50 cannot be kept in check, then we need personalities,

48:54 who can say: I do not care about this, I have enough power by elections,

48:58 In Moscow, Washington, Berlin, Brussels,

49:02 and Budapest, that indeed aligned with our values,

49:06 I can engage in politics and force society to live normally.

49:10 So I trust very much in this, even more than

49:14 whether the great powers will eliminate their weapons or not.

49:18 Very clear. Well… I am happy about this optimistic

49:22 ending. Seriously, it was great to hear it. Moreover,

49:26 I also trust and I can see numerous positive signs,

49:30 many events supporting this, such as the election of Donald Trump,

49:34 or Brexit, everything that goes against the existing

49:38 Western Liberal world and erodes it.

49:42 All of them give reason for optimism.

49:46 I would like to thank you for being here. — I thank you.