LEIGH SALES, PRESENTER: We invited the Communications Minister Stephen Conroy for an interview on the program tonight. He declined. Instead I was joined a short time ago by the Shadow Communications Minister Malcolm Turnbull in Melbourne.

Malcolm Turnbull, thankyou very much for being with us. What do you make the of the Government's argument that the tender process for the Australia Network that was so compromised by leaks that there was no option but to abandon it?

MALCOLM TURNBULL, SHADOW COMMUNICATIONS MINISTER: Well, it's an absurd argument. I mean, the logical thing for them to do, having made such a hash of this pretty straightforward exercise - remember, Leigh, that governments at every level - local, state and federal, businesses of every size run tenders every day. Only the Gillard Government is incapable of running a tender, apparently. But having made a hash of the first two attempts to run the tender, all they needed to do was have an open, honest and transparent process and they could have had an outcome.

LEIGH SALES: Do you agree or disagree that as a major public diplomacy platform that the Australia Network is best run by the public broadcaster?

MALCOLM TURNBULL: Well, look, there's - that is - there's a very powerful case for saying that, and that was in fact the view that John Howard took in 2006 when there wasn't a tender for the five-year contract that was given to the ABC. But, look, as a matter of principle, I'm all in favour of competition and contestability. I didn't object to Kevin Rudd's decision to have the tender. I mean, clearly he wanted to award the contract to Sky; I think that's pretty clear, and he became frustrated when he felt it wasn't going his way. That no doubt had something to do with the leaks - who knows?

Look, it's been a shambles, Leigh. The personal antagonism between Kevin Rudd and Julia Gillard has really poisoned the whole process. And it speaks to the dysfunctionality and the confusion at the very heart of the Government.

LEIGH SALES: You say that it's about Julia Gillard versus Kevin Rudd, but how much of it is actually about Cabinet versus News Limited?

MALCOLM TURNBULL: Well I don't know. I mean, News Limited - everyone talks about News Limited and Sky, but they actually have a pretty small shareholding in Sky. Their shareholding is only a function of BSkyB having a piece of Sky, and when you trace it all down, it's not a very big stake.

LEIGH SALES: If I can turn to the subject of gay marriage: when you were the Opposition Leader in November 2009 you said in a radio interview that, "I believe marriage is a permanent union between a man and woman. I don't disrespect unions between - or relationships, partnerships - whatever you want to call it - between people of the same sex, but it's not a marriage. A marriage in my view and I think the view of most Australians is a permanent union between a man and a woman." Is that still your view?

MALCOLM TURNBULL: Well I haven't changed that view, but I've said since then that I've been looking at this issue anew with an open mind and consulting with my constituents and taking a measure of the way in which community attitudes are changing. Because this is very much a question of the community sentiment. I mean, one's religious views really should be put to one side because, you know, there are many people, millions of people who are married under the Australian Marriage Act who could not be married in a Catholic church, for example. So, the issue is what unions should the state recognise? It's a big issue. I think it's an important one. It's not the most important issue confronting Australia at the moment, but it is important, and I think all members of Parliament should approach it with an open mind and have regard to what is clearly a changing sentiment - and not just in Australia, Leigh. I mean, New York State has voted to allow gay marriages. The Conservative leader - Prime Minister in the United Kingdom David Cameron is supporting, and clearly it will be passed, legislation to provide for gay marriages in the UK. So there are big changes afoot and that's something that as an MP I've gotta have regard to.

LEIGH SALES: You said at the start of that answer that you hadn't changed your view, but that you were looking at the issue with an open mind. Does that mean that you are, I guess, considering changing your view - open to changing your mind on the issue?

MALCOLM TURNBULL: Well, I think you should always be open to changing your mind in light of different - you know, changed arguments and different circumstances. Again, a lot of people see this as something that affects a religious point of view and I profoundly disagree with that. This is a - there is a big difference between relationships that the state approves and relationships that a church or any other form of religion would approve of. And there are many marriages - not a majority, but it'd be a lot of marriages, many marriages, that would not be approved by one church or another, or one religion or another. So, you know, we've - there is a distinction between church and state here.

LEIGH SALES: Do you believe that a conscience vote should reflect a member of Parliament's individual conviction and what he or she believes to be the right thing to do, or should it reflect the view of the majority of people in their electorate?

MALCOLM TURNBULL: Ah, well, that's Edmund Burke's speech to the electors of Bristol. That's going back several hundred years. Look, I think an MP has got to have regard to the views of their constituency, plainly. But they also have to be true to themselves. When you elect an MP, a person to be your representative, you're not electing somebody just to be your cipher, just to be the agent of the view of 50 per cent plus one of the electorate. You're electing a man or a woman to bring all of their values and their integrity and their intellect as your representative in Parliament. But nonetheless, you clearly should have regard to the views of your electorate and that should be a very, very persuasive matter in your thinking. But I would never expect an MP who had a very deep - deeply-held conscientious view on a matter to go against that simply because 50 per cent plus one of his constituents took a different opinion.

LEIGH SALES: Generally at the moment the polls are showing that while Australians would like to see the back of Julia Gillard, they're not particularly enthused about replacing her with Tony Abbott. What do you think that the Coalition needs to do in 2012 to make yourselves more electable?

MALCOLM TURNBULL: Well, our job as an Opposition is the same in 2012 as it was in 2011 as it will be in 2013, unless there's been an election which we've won in the interim. And that is to provide a constructive critique of the Government to be an effective counterweight, to hold the Government to account and to lay out our own alternative vision for Australia, which is a Liberal vision, a Liberal-National vision, so that people can see that we hold the Government to account, but we also present the program of an alternative government.

LEIGH SALES: And have you been doing enough of that third point?

MALCOLM TURNBULL: Well, I think the answer to that is yes. I know people have got different views on that, but speaking for my own portfolio, I've been very critical of the NBN, the - it's anti-competitive nature, the massive expense, unnecessary expense that's entailed, but I've also laid out at great length on occasions the alternative approach that we would take.

LEIGH SALES: That may be the case, but the public's view obviously of course is mostly focused on your leader, and is Tony Abbott doing that sufficiently?

MALCOLM TURNBULL: Well of course he is, Leigh, and, you know, if you want to get someone to criticise Tony Abbott, you've invited the wrong person onto the show. But he's doing a great job as Opposition Leader and I'm not going to sit here and criticise him.

LEIGH SALES: Not too negative, as people say?

MALCOLM TURNBULL: Well, you're free to express that view. I've been Opposition Leader. Every opposition leader is criticised for being too negative. There's never been an opposition leader ever that has been - that - of whom people have not said, "You're too negative." So, that goes with the job.

LEIGH SALES: Malcolm Turnbull, thankyou very much for speaking to us tonight.

MALCOLM TURNBULL: Thanks, Leigh.