S-Town (Shit-Town) is a seven-episode documentary podcast from the makers of Serial and This American Life, launched in its entirety two weeks ago. An instant hit, described by Jon Ronson as “the best podcast I’ve ever heard”, it’s a strange tale that begins with a suspected murder and is flipped around by another death. Within the story we find hidden gold, ancient clocks, bizarre tattoos, an actual maze… At its centre: John B McLemore, an eccentric horologist from Woodstock, Bib County, Alabama. Brian Reed, who has worked for TAL for seven years, is the reporter and co-producer (with Serial’s Julie Snyder) of S-Town. He spent three years making the show.

The story begins with a mystery, but that mystery shape-shifts throughout…

Going to Bib County taught me something about people – at least, the people of Bib County – and that is that people’s minds will go to paranoid, conspiratorial places very easily. I was surprised at how quickly very reasonable people would jump to be suspicious of others. I feel that’s where the different mysteries come from – from people in the story telling me, “This is really bad, can you look into this?”, and then me looking into it and saying, “There is a more human reason for this than you think…”

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John McLemore is a terrifically compelling person. Do you believe, as a reporter, that everyone has a story to tell?

Everybody has a story, but very few have a story that should be told on the radio or in a podcast. With John, it was the way he spoke, but more than that, it was the experience of that first phone call with him. You can build moving, amazing radio stories out of interviews where people are just telling you the story of something in the past. But then there’s this other type of radio tape, which is more exciting … when something is literally happening in the tape. And that first phone call with John was one of those. I edited it very quickly after we spoke and it went into the first programme almost exactly as I edited it. John lays out the story of a murder incredibly well, but also we’re in the midst of this other thing, where he’s reaching out, trying to say something about his life, wrestling with his own doubts, regrets and his loathing of his talent… That’s happening in that phone call and it’s what made it so special.

Are there ethical problems around reporting on dead people?

There’s a long tradition of journalism that’s done about people that aren’t there, like biography. And with every story, you’re always weighing up what to include, what’s appropriate, what’s the impact on the people involved versus the value to the story. It wasn’t that different in this case. You apply your own moral compass and use the judgment of your editors.

Facebook Twitter Pinterest Brian Reed interviews John B McLemore during the making of S-Town. Photograph: Andrea Morales

This American Life and Serial are renowned for the compelling nature of their podcasts. Do you use techniques from other disciplines?

Absolutely. I was a theatre major in college. So I felt at home when I stumbled into my internship at This American Life, because people were talking about “bringing a character on stage”, or scenes, or the stakes. Ira Glass envisioned This American Life as an entertainment first and foremost, and we use all those dramatic techniques every day. We’re putting on a show. What’s different about S-Town is that, in terms of technique, we also turned to novels. Early on, Julie and I sensed that the details and the metaphors that John was handing me – the maze, clockwork – were novelistic. And with a novel, people will open the first page, engage with a character and may not know what’s going on for the first 50 pages. We thought we could do that with a podcast.

There were two novels we definitely drew from. The first was Stoner by John Williams, because it’s about an unremarkable life. That was in our heads. And then, in terms of writing techniques, Edward P Jones and The Known World. He’ll be writing about a character and he’ll insert these sentences where he tells you something that happens in the future to this person. I love it, it’s beautiful and omniscient, and I realised that simply by reporting for three years, I’d accidentally given myself the power of omniscience. So there are moments where I jump into the future tense.

Being with John, and the people he hung out with, you’d feel like you’d stepped through the looking glass

What have you learned from John B McLemore?

Many things. Two come to mind. I learned that it’s important for us to kick each other in the ass, in terms of the shit that’s going on in the world. It is easy to fall into apathy. John made me feel more outraged, worried and dismayed at the ease with which we retreat into ourselves and become convinced that we can’t fix things.

And being with John, and the people he hung out with, you’d feel like you’d stepped through the looking glass a little bit. Like you were off the grid, a place where the normal rules of society didn’t quite apply, especially being on his property. He forces a new perception of reality on anyone who is around him. That’s so special, people who are able to do that, even if the rest of normal society bristles against them sometimes. It’s a “fuck it” attitude. I don’t care, I’m gonna be me, follow my passions and curiosities. And John has found all sorts of people to come along with him, who are, in their own ways, of that mindset.

When I was listening to S-Town, I kept thinking of Jez Butterworth’s play, Jerusalem. John reminds me of the Johnny character in that play, the weird country outsider who everyone needs but simultaneously oppresses…

Ah, that’s such a spectacular play. I love it, and I have thought about it a lot! That’s the vibe exactly. There are definite similarities… The pied piper aspect. And how it’s burdensome on the person who’s the leader – it’s tiring. You’re chafing against everything around you every day. I saw a tweet I liked: it said something like, “S-Town shows all that’s spectacular about living and all that’s detrimental about society”. There is that kind of tension in John’s life. From the start, you know John knows exactly how to live, but it is really hard for him to find a place where his life can fully be realised. I think a lot of people who experience that, maybe even worse than John.

Why is the US better than the UK at making these kind of podcasts?

I came over and hung out at the BBC for a few days to talk about this. The most practical thing I found, that could be changed, is that it’s not built into the system of the BBC to kill stories. In terms of the budgeting, workflow and culture, if you work on a story, at the BBC, you have to create a story out of it. But at This American Life, it’s built into our budget and culture to kill half the things we start. The freedom of that is so important. It’s so much harder to drag something mediocre over the finishing line than to make something great. Killing is the secret source of getting things to be good.