Laserist Profile Joined September 2011 Turkey 2891 Posts #1661 I'dnt skill gush as solo hard until like 0-2-4-1 or 0-4-2-1. Gush takes so much mana and you'll spam smash(one of the best spells in the game imo) like mad. Gush only works if you play really aggressive and leave hard lane early. I remember Xiao8 did a gushless build but I need to double check. He played tide like every game. “Are you with the Cartel? Because you’re definitely an Angel.”

Logo Profile Joined April 2010 United States 4568 Posts Last Edited: 2014-07-16 16:20:45 #1662 On July 17 2014 01:08 Sn0_Man wrote:

Show nested quote +

On July 17 2014 01:06 ahswtini wrote:

Surely offlane tide is skilled differently to support tide?

Yeah support tide maxes gush (4-1-1-1) on the logic that you don't have the farm/levels to stand in a fight and spam anchor smash, and you don't need the shell/smash combo that allows you to farm ancients/jungle so well because thats not ur job as support. And also support tide shouldn't exist. Unfortunately like i said earlier it's actually hard to get proper "offlane" with tide and in a lane with somebody else, 9 times outta ten ur ending up playing support tide anyway. Yeah support tide maxes gush (4-1-1-1) on the logic that you don't have the farm/levels to stand in a fight and spam anchor smash, and you don't need the shell/smash combo that allows you to farm ancients/jungle so well because thats not ur job as support. And also support tide shouldn't exist. Unfortunately like i said earlier it's actually hard to get proper "offlane" with tide and in a lane with somebody else, 9 times outta ten ur ending up playing support tide anyway.



Except in pubs now you can clear stacked ancients even from a duo-lane tide and sort of catch-up in levels. At least to the point of not being too squishy to get into a fight. So long as you have 4 anchor smash, 2 kraken shell, and some form of +hp, +armor, or +regen (Buckler being a great choice) you can clear double or triple ancient stacks pretty well (you may also need arcane boots or full mana). Which may still be beyond the target skill of the guides, I'm not really sure, but maybe it's worth considering some of the other builds/playstyles of Tide now that he's able to ancient farm and is way more durable with smash being a 60% dmg reduction.



Even double stacks should get a Tide pretty good XP and you can just do that then immediately clear them. Except in pubs now you can clear stacked ancients even from a duo-lane tide and sort of catch-up in levels. At least to the point of not being too squishy to get into a fight. So long as you have 4 anchor smash, 2 kraken shell, and some form of +hp, +armor, or +regen (Buckler being a great choice) you can clear double or triple ancient stacks pretty well (you may also need arcane boots or full mana). Which may still be beyond the target skill of the guides, I'm not really sure, but maybe it's worth considering some of the other builds/playstyles of Tide now that he's able to ancient farm and is way more durable with smash being a 60% dmg reduction.Even double stacks should get a Tide pretty good XP and you can just do that then immediately clear them. Logo

Sn0_Man Profile Joined October 2012 Tebellong 31461 Posts Last Edited: 2014-07-16 16:36:16 #1663 I dunno its like maxing greed on support alch so that you can afford wards or some shit. PS Support alch can totally clear ancients with acid spray once he's 6/7, its really good.



Level ur useful ability and go use it if ur gonna be level and farm constrained like that.



The point of offlane tide doing ancients is that he can usually stack them from the offlane and gets level 5 fast enough to clear them and get ahead. Doing it from a support perspective is just kinda too slow imo usually. And gimps u having good spells. Moderator SCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302

Logo Profile Joined April 2010 United States 4568 Posts Last Edited: 2014-07-16 17:27:04 #1664 Yeah but it's not necessarily even the weaker skill build. If you're comparing something like 0/2/4 to 1/1/4 (or even 0/4/4) it's somewhat debatable. Kraken levels are really useful in teamfights because it almost ensures you get ravage off while Gush is mana intensive and at 1 level is really only useful in ganks or cleaning up heroes. I think the part of the idea behind gushless Tide builds is that it pretty much ensures a timely Ravage. With 4/1/1 vs 1/1/4, or the variations of those two general ideas, (max gush or max anchor) the benefits are debatable. I'd think with the buff on anchor to be 60% dmg reduction and the reduced cooldown for each level it's the more useful skill to max. Even a support tide should be able to stand in a fight and soak damage if he's applying -60% dmg reduction to enemies. But maybe it's not and the Gush max is more useful. Logo

Torte de Lini Profile Joined September 2010 Germany 7680 Posts Last Edited: 2014-07-19 15:22:12 #1665 (just gonna pump a shitload out today).



Tiny (Lane)

Added new tab: Core - Ganker

Added Blink Dagger to Ganker

Added Aghanim's Scepter to Ganker

Moved Assault Cuirass to Ganker

Added Shiva's Guard to Ganker

Removed Situational Items tab



Tiny (Middle)

Removed Heart of Tarrasque

Added Treads to Core Items

Added Aghanim's Scepter to Core Items

Added Drums of Endurance to Core Items

Added Yasha to Core Items

Added Manta Style to Core Items



I should have fixed this moons ago



Dragon Knight

Removed Mjollnir

Added Shadow Blade to Situational Items

Added Helm of the Dominator to Situational Items



Leshrac

Added Black King Bar to Core - Carry



Ogre Magi

Removed Rod of Atos



Slardar

Fixed Tabs to reflect "Core" Formatting (see Tiny/Ancient Apparition)



Jakiro

New Skill Build: E W E Q E R E W W W R Q Q Q R (1. Liquid Fire 2. Ice Path 3. Dual Breath)



Skywrath Mage (Middle)

Moved Rod of Atos to Core Items



Invoker

New Skill Build: E R Q E Q E E Q Q W E E E R R W R W W W W W Q Q Q

Added Necromonicon to Situational Items

Added Hand of Midas to Situational Items



To be verified: His item build is very fluid



Treant Protector

Moved Drums to Situational Items

Added Blink Dagger to Core Items



New Guide

Lycan (Lane)



Skill Build: W Q Q E Q R Q E W E R E W W R (1. Summon Wolves 2. Feral Impulse 3. Howl)

Item Build: Starting Items: Stout Shield, Iron Branch, Tangos, Healing Salve

Early Game: Ring of Basilius, Vladmir's Offering

Core Items: Medallion of Courage, Power Treads, Black King Bar

Situational Items: Necromonicon, Heaven's Halberd

Extension Items: Skull Basher, Desolator, Assault Cuirass, Abyssal Blade



New Guide

Dragon Knight (Middle)



Skill Build: Q E Q W Q R Q E E E R W W W R (1. Breathe Fire 2. Dragon Blood 3. Dragon Tail)

Item Build: Starting Items: Stout Shield, Iron Branch x2, Tangos

Early Game: Bottle, Boots of Speed

Core Items: Treads, Black King Bar, Maelstrom

Situational Items: Shadow Blade, Helm of the Dominator, Drums of Endurance, Armlet of Mordiggan

Extension Items: Daedalus, Assault Cuirass, Heart of Tarrasque, Heaven's Halberd



New Guide

Skywrath Mage (Lane)



Skill Build: W E Q Q Q R Q E E E R W W W R (1. Arcane Bolt 2. Ancient Seal 3. Concussive Shot)

Starting Items: Courier/Wards, Iron Branch x3, Clarity x3, Tangos

Early Game: Boots of Speed, Magic Wand

Core Items: Arcane Boots, Force Staff, Rod of Atos

Utility Items: Flying Courier, Observer Wards, Sentry Wards, Dust of Appearance, Gem of True Sight, Smoke of Deceit

Situational Items: Urn of Shadows, Eul's Scepter of Divinity, Ghost Scepter

Extension Items: Scythe of Vyse, Aghanim's Scepter, Shiva's Guard



Draft Guide

Techies (Lane)



Skill Build: Q E Q W Q R Q W W W R E E E R (1. Land Mines 2. Stasis Trap 3. Suicide Squad, Attack!)

Starting Items: 3x Iron Branches, 4 Clarities, TP Scroll, Tangos

Early Game: Soul Ring, Boots, Wand

Core Items: Arcane Boots, Force Staff, Aghanim's Scepter

Situational Items: Urn of Shadows, Necromonicon, Eul's Scepter of Divinity, Ghost Scepter

Extension Items: Scythe of Vyse, Shiva's Guard, Added new tab: Core - GankerAdded Blink Dagger to GankerAdded Aghanim's Scepter to GankerMoved Assault Cuirass to GankerAdded Shiva's Guard to GankerRemoved Situational Items tabRemoved Heart of TarrasqueAdded Treads to Core ItemsAdded Aghanim's Scepter to Core ItemsAdded Drums of Endurance to Core ItemsAdded Yasha to Core ItemsAdded Manta Style to Core ItemsRemoved MjollnirAdded Shadow Blade to Situational ItemsAdded Helm of the Dominator to Situational ItemsAdded Black King Bar to Core - CarryRemoved Rod of AtosFixed Tabs to reflect "Core" Formatting (see Tiny/Ancient Apparition)New Skill Build: E W E Q E R E W W W R Q Q Q R (1. Liquid Fire 2. Ice Path 3. Dual Breath)Moved Rod of Atos to Core ItemsNew Skill Build: E R Q E Q E E Q Q W E E E R R W R W W W W W Q Q QAdded Necromonicon to Situational ItemsAdded Hand of Midas to Situational ItemsMoved Drums to Situational ItemsAdded Blink Dagger to Core ItemsSkill Build: W Q Q E Q R Q E W E R E W W R (1. Summon Wolves 2. Feral Impulse 3. Howl)Item Build: Starting Items: Stout Shield, Iron Branch, Tangos, Healing SalveEarly Game: Ring of Basilius, Vladmir's OfferingCore Items: Medallion of Courage, Power Treads, Black King BarSituational Items: Necromonicon, Heaven's HalberdExtension Items: Skull Basher, Desolator, Assault Cuirass, Abyssal BladeSkill Build: Q E Q W Q R Q E E E R W W W R (1. Breathe Fire 2. Dragon Blood 3. Dragon Tail)Item Build: Starting Items: Stout Shield, Iron Branch x2, TangosEarly Game: Bottle, Boots of SpeedCore Items: Treads, Black King Bar, MaelstromSituational Items: Shadow Blade, Helm of the Dominator, Drums of Endurance, Armlet of MordigganExtension Items: Daedalus, Assault Cuirass, Heart of Tarrasque, Heaven's HalberdSkill Build: W E Q Q Q R Q E E E R W W W R (1. Arcane Bolt 2. Ancient Seal 3. Concussive Shot)Starting Items: Courier/Wards, Iron Branch x3, Clarity x3, TangosEarly Game: Boots of Speed, Magic WandCore Items: Arcane Boots, Force Staff, Rod of AtosUtility Items: Flying Courier, Observer Wards, Sentry Wards, Dust of Appearance, Gem of True Sight, Smoke of DeceitSituational Items: Urn of Shadows, Eul's Scepter of Divinity, Ghost ScepterExtension Items: Scythe of Vyse, Aghanim's Scepter, Shiva's GuardSkill Build: Q E Q W Q R Q W W W R E E E R (1. Land Mines 2. Stasis Trap 3. Suicide Squad, Attack!)Starting Items: 3x Iron Branches, 4 Clarities, TP Scroll, TangosEarly Game: Soul Ring, Boots, WandCore Items: Arcane Boots, Force Staff, Aghanim's ScepterSituational Items: Urn of Shadows, Necromonicon, Eul's Scepter of Divinity, Ghost ScepterExtension Items: Scythe of Vyse, Shiva's Guard, https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)

Torte de Lini Profile Joined September 2010 Germany 7680 Posts Last Edited: 2014-07-19 11:49:22 #1666 Front Page has been reformatted with more information, classification and color





PATCH NOTES CATALOGED SINCE 2013; YOU CAN SEE PUBLISHING AND CHANGES I MADE BACK IN 2013 ON THE FRONT PAGE





STATS FROM OCT. 2013 UNTIL NOW CAN BE FOUND ON THE FRONT PAGE





Still looking for a way to rearrange the heroes list as it is a bit too long and a lot of scrolling





Front page now include images of all heroes



I really want to change the Heroes list to a more image-friendly/horizontal form as the list is pretty massive and a bit of an eye-sore.



The Patchlist/update notes will be properly cataloged.



I may even do statistical notes for the months before February (to October 13th) for consistency. But to be honest, now I'm just looking for work lol



New Front Page image:



I really want to change the Heroes list to a more image-friendly/horizontal form as the list is pretty massive and a bit of an eye-sore.The Patchlist/update notes will be properly cataloged.I may even do statistical notes for the months before February (to October 13th) for consistency. But to be honest, now I'm just looking for work lolNew Front Page image: https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)

Torte de Lini Profile Joined September 2010 Germany 7680 Posts Last Edited: 2014-07-24 20:42:26 #1669 Bloodseeker

Moved Monkey King Bar to Situational Items

Removed Yasha

Added Basher to Core Items

Removed Drums of Endurance

Added Medallion of Courage to Situational Items



Doom (Jungle)

Added Tab: Core - Ganker

Ganker Tab includes: Arcane Boots, Blink Dagger, Mekansm, Shiva's Guard and Scythe of Vyse.



Faceless Void

Moved Monkey King Bar to Situational Items

Added Refresher's Orb to Extension Items

Added Aghanim's Scepter to Situational Items

Removed Healing Salve

Moved Poor Man's Shield to Early Game



Zeus

Added Situational Items Tab

Added Veil of Discord

Added Eul's Scepter of Divinity

Added Black King Bar to Situational Items



Undying

New Skill Build: Q E E W E R E Q Q Q W W W R (1. Tombstone 2. Decay 3. Soul Rip)

Removed Hood of Defiance

Added Blade Mail to Core Items

Removed Rod of Atos



Brewmaster

New Skill Build: Q E Q E R Q E E W R W W W R (1. Thunder Clap 2. Drunken Brawler 3. Druken Haze)

Removed Drums of Endurance

Moved Blink Dagger to Core Items

Removed Monkey King Bar

Added Refresher's Orb to Extension Items

Removed Heart of Tarrasque.

Added Scythe of Vyse to Extension Items



Treant Protector

Added Iron Branch to Starting Items

Removed Heart of Tarrasque

Removed Drums of Endurance

Removed Pipe of Insight

Moved Mekansm to Situational Items



Wraith King (Lane)

Removed Soul Ring

Added Medallion of Courage to Situational Items

Moved Monkey King Bar to Situational Items



Troll Warlord

Added Situational Items Tab

Moved Monkey King Bar to Situational items



Clockwerk

New Skill Build: E Q Q W Q R Q E E E R W W W R (1. Battery Assault 2. Rocket Flare 3. Power Cogs)

Removed Hood of Defiance



Death Prophet

Removed Drums of Endurance



Venomancer

Moved Mekansm to Core Items

Moved Urn of Shadows to Situational Items



Nature's Prophet

New Skill Build: E W E Q E R E W W W R Q Q Q (1. Nature's Call 2. Teleportation 3. Sprout)



Axe (Lane)

Removed Pipe of Insight

Moved Hood of Defiance to Situational Items



Axe (Jungle)

Moved Urn of Shadows to Core Items



Meepo

Moved Eye of Skadi to Situational Items



Sniper

New Skill Build: E W E W W R W E E Q R Q Q Q (1. Headshot 2. Take Aim 3. Shrapnel)

Added Mask of Madness to Situational Items

Removed Powers Treads

Added Phase Boots to Core Items

Added Maelstrom to Core Items

Added Sange & Yasha to Situational Items

Added Satanic to Extension Items

Added Butterfly to Extesnsion Items

Added Mjollnir to Extension Items



Drow Ranger

Removed Helm of the Dominator

Added Mask of Madness to Situational Items



Centaur Warrunner

Removed Hood of Defiance

Added Black King Bar to Core Items

Moved Heaven's Halberd to Core Items



Phantom Lancer

Moved Monkey King Bar to Situational Items

Moved Manta Style to Extension Items



Vengeful Spirit

Added Heaven's Halberd to Situational Items

Removed Pipe of Insight

Removed Mekansm



Lina

Early Game: Iron Branch x3, Tangos and Clarity

Removed Veil of Discord



Mirana

Changed Mirana to Lane version

Moved Desolator to Situational Items

Added Medallion to Situational Items

Moved Drums of Endurance to Core Items

Moved Maelstrom to Core Items

Removed Bottle

Moved Mjollnir to Extension Items

Removed Daedalus

Added Black King Bar to Extension Items



Witch Doctor

New Skill Build: Q W Q E Q R W W W R E E E R (1. Paralyzing Cask 2. Voodoo Restoration 3. Maledict)

Removed Eul's Scepter of Divinity

Removed Mekansm

Removed Necromonicon

Moved Aghanim's Scepter to Core Items

Added Shiva's Guard to Extension Items



Lich

New Skill Build: E Q W Q Q R Q E E E R W W W R (1. Frost Blast 2. Sacrifice 3. Ice Armor)



Beastmaster (Middle)

Removed Pipe of Insight

Removed Drums of Endurance



Beastmaster (Lane)

Removed Pipe of Insight



Broodmother

Removed Monkey King Bar



Phoenix (Lane/Middle)

Removed Veil of Discord



Razor

Moved Sange & Yasha to Situational Items

Added Refresher Orb to Situational Items



Lion

New Skill Build: Q W Q E Q R Q E E E R W W W R (1. Earth Spike 2. Mana Drain 3. Hex)

Removed Arcane Boots

Added Tranquil Boots to Core Items



Sven

New Skill Build: Q E Q E Q R Q W W W R W E E (1. Storm Hammer 2. Great Cleave 3. Warcry)



Visage

Removed Arcane Boots

Added Tranquil Boots to Core Items

Removed Mekansm

Added Medallion of Courage to Core Items

Moved Rod of Atos to Core Items

Moved Aghanim's Scepter to Extension Items



Viper

Moved Drums of Endurance to Situational Items

Moved Aghanim's Scepter to Core Items



Pugna

Removed Veil of Discord



Batrider

Added Boots of Travel to Extension Items



Earth Spirit

Moved Force Staff to Situational Items

Added Blink Dagger to Core Items

Removed Veil of Discord

Added Blade Mail to Situational Items

Added Heaven's Halberd to Situational Items



Crystal Maiden

Removed Mekansm

Removed Pipe of Insight

Added Bracer to Core Items



Disruptor

Removed Mekansm

Removed Pipe of Insight



Rubick

Removed Urn of Shadows

Moved Blink Dagger to Core Items

Removed Mekansm





All General Hero Descriptions, Items and Ability Descriptions have been updated to their fullest extent; 2500+ rewrites

Moved Monkey King Bar to Situational ItemsRemoved YashaAdded Basher to Core ItemsRemoved Drums of EnduranceAdded Medallion of Courage to Situational ItemsAdded Tab: Core - GankerGanker Tab includes: Arcane Boots, Blink Dagger, Mekansm, Shiva's Guard and Scythe of Vyse.Moved Monkey King Bar to Situational ItemsAdded Refresher's Orb to Extension ItemsAdded Aghanim's Scepter to Situational ItemsRemoved Healing SalveMoved Poor Man's Shield to Early GameAdded Situational Items TabAdded Veil of DiscordAdded Eul's Scepter of DivinityAdded Black King Bar to Situational ItemsNew Skill Build: Q E E W E R E Q Q Q W W W R (1. Tombstone 2. Decay 3. Soul Rip)Removed Hood of DefianceAdded Blade Mail to Core ItemsRemoved Rod of AtosNew Skill Build: Q E Q E R Q E E W R W W W R (1. Thunder Clap 2. Drunken Brawler 3. Druken Haze)Removed Drums of EnduranceMoved Blink Dagger to Core ItemsRemoved Monkey King BarAdded Refresher's Orb to Extension ItemsRemoved Heart of Tarrasque.Added Scythe of Vyse to Extension ItemsAdded Iron Branch to Starting ItemsRemoved Heart of TarrasqueRemoved Drums of EnduranceRemoved Pipe of InsightMoved Mekansm to Situational ItemsRemoved Soul RingAdded Medallion of Courage to Situational ItemsMoved Monkey King Bar to Situational ItemsAdded Situational Items TabMoved Monkey King Bar to Situational itemsNew Skill Build: E Q Q W Q R Q E E E R W W W R (1. Battery Assault 2. Rocket Flare 3. Power Cogs)Removed Hood of DefianceRemoved Drums of EnduranceMoved Mekansm to Core ItemsMoved Urn of Shadows to Situational ItemsNew Skill Build: E W E Q E R E W W W R Q Q Q (1. Nature's Call 2. Teleportation 3. Sprout)Removed Pipe of InsightMoved Hood of Defiance to Situational ItemsMoved Urn of Shadows to Core ItemsMoved Eye of Skadi to Situational ItemsNew Skill Build: E W E W W R W E E Q R Q Q Q (1. Headshot 2. Take Aim 3. Shrapnel)Added Mask of Madness to Situational ItemsRemoved Powers TreadsAdded Phase Boots to Core ItemsAdded Maelstrom to Core ItemsAdded Sange & Yasha to Situational ItemsAdded Satanic to Extension ItemsAdded Butterfly to Extesnsion ItemsAdded Mjollnir to Extension ItemsRemoved Helm of the DominatorAdded Mask of Madness to Situational ItemsRemoved Hood of DefianceAdded Black King Bar to Core ItemsMoved Heaven's Halberd to Core ItemsMoved Monkey King Bar to Situational ItemsMoved Manta Style to Extension ItemsAdded Heaven's Halberd to Situational ItemsRemoved Pipe of InsightRemoved MekansmEarly Game: Iron Branch x3, Tangos and ClarityRemoved Veil of DiscordChanged Mirana to Lane versionMoved Desolator to Situational ItemsAdded Medallion to Situational ItemsMoved Drums of Endurance to Core ItemsMoved Maelstrom to Core ItemsRemoved BottleMoved Mjollnir to Extension ItemsRemoved DaedalusAdded Black King Bar to Extension ItemsNew Skill Build: Q W Q E Q R W W W R E E E R (1. Paralyzing Cask 2. Voodoo Restoration 3. Maledict)Removed Eul's Scepter of DivinityRemoved MekansmRemoved NecromoniconMoved Aghanim's Scepter to Core ItemsAdded Shiva's Guard to Extension ItemsNew Skill Build: E Q W Q Q R Q E E E R W W W R (1. Frost Blast 2. Sacrifice 3. Ice Armor)Removed Pipe of InsightRemoved Drums of EnduranceRemoved Pipe of InsightRemoved Monkey King BarRemoved Veil of DiscordMoved Sange & Yasha to Situational ItemsAdded Refresher Orb to Situational ItemsNew Skill Build: Q W Q E Q R Q E E E R W W W R (1. Earth Spike 2. Mana Drain 3. Hex)Removed Arcane BootsAdded Tranquil Boots to Core ItemsNew Skill Build: Q E Q E Q R Q W W W R W E E (1. Storm Hammer 2. Great Cleave 3. Warcry)Removed Arcane BootsAdded Tranquil Boots to Core ItemsRemoved MekansmAdded Medallion of Courage to Core ItemsMoved Rod of Atos to Core ItemsMoved Aghanim's Scepter to Extension ItemsMoved Drums of Endurance to Situational ItemsMoved Aghanim's Scepter to Core ItemsRemoved Veil of DiscordAdded Boots of Travel to Extension ItemsMoved Force Staff to Situational ItemsAdded Blink Dagger to Core ItemsRemoved Veil of DiscordAdded Blade Mail to Situational ItemsAdded Heaven's Halberd to Situational ItemsRemoved MekansmRemoved Pipe of InsightAdded Bracer to Core ItemsRemoved MekansmRemoved Pipe of InsightRemoved Urn of ShadowsMoved Blink Dagger to Core ItemsRemoved Mekansm https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)

idonthinksobro Profile Joined December 2010 1610 Posts #1670 no brewmaster does not get early stats anymore, since the other abilites got buffed so much that they are now actually good you almost never want stats, mid brew gets bottle, sidelane brew gets arcanes. Drums and Aghs core is also questionable as this hero usually wants blink asap - often even skipping arcanes.



About wraith king support - your answer is pretty much what i said earlier "not sure if anyone will play wraith king as a support". How are they supposed to know that they can play him as a support if your guide shows him exclusively as a hard carry? also i don't think that wraith king as a support requires much coordination at all, in fact if you get focused down and your ult procs your team can go ham.

Torte de Lini Profile Joined September 2010 Germany 7680 Posts #1671 On July 19 2014 23:16 idonthinksobro wrote:

no brewmaster does not get early stats anymore, since the other abilites got buffed so much that they are now actually good you almost never want stats, mid brew gets bottle, sidelane brew gets arcanes. Drums and Aghs core is also questionable as this hero usually wants blink asap - often even skipping arcanes.



About wraith king support - your answer is pretty much what i said earlier "not sure if anyone will play wraith king as a support". How are they supposed to know that they can play him as a support if your guide shows him exclusively as a hard carry? also i don't think that wraith king as a support requires much coordination at all, in fact if you get focused down and your ult procs your team can go ham.



What's the point of getting stats 8 as most pros do that before getting the slow.



I was playing Brew recently and I agree on the needlessness of Drums for him, especially if he goes Arcane. So I will switch that and get two points in E instead of stats early.



I don't have a mid Brewmaster guide, do you think that's really needed?



As for Wraith King Support; what is the full skill build for that and I can make it a separate tab as I did for PA. What's the point of getting stats 8 as most pros do that before getting the slow.I was playing Brew recently and I agree on the needlessness of Drums for him, especially if he goes Arcane. So I will switch that and get two points in E instead of stats early.I don't have a mid Brewmaster guide, do you think that's really needed?As for Wraith King Support; what is the full skill build for that and I can make it a separate tab as I did for PA. https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)

idonthinksobro Profile Joined December 2010 1610 Posts #1672 the only difference for mid brew is the bottle pretty much.



as for wraith king support you max stun first, lifesteal second, some players even get stats over the crit. You are basically a very tanky support that can jungle in downtimes with a stun and a strong teamfight ulti. For items you get a blink and then either utility with stuff like hh / blademail etc. or transition into a core if the game goes late.

Torte de Lini Profile Joined September 2010 Germany 7680 Posts Last Edited: 2014-07-19 14:46:41 #1673 On July 19 2014 23:40 idonthinksobro wrote:

the only difference for mid brew is the bottle pretty much.



as for wraith king support you max stun first, lifesteal second, some players even get stats over the crit. You are basically a very tanky support that can jungle in downtimes with a stun and a strong teamfight ulti. For items you get a blink and then either utility with stuff like hh / blademail etc. or transition into a core if the game goes late.



We'll skip mid Brewmaster then; as it doesn't sound too different or imperative.

Mid Disruptor though, is that still played?



Brewmaster has been changed fyi.



Should I make a separate guide for "Jungle" Wraith King? I've seen him play in the stream and he's not necessarily a "jungler" but just there to avoid taking exp. So it can go either way.





I'm seeing Medallion, Urn even Maelstrom on him.



The order and item selection doesn't seem clear:



Q - W max with E



Boots -> Blink -> Wand -> Treads -> Medallion, Urn ?? We'll skip mid Brewmaster then; as it doesn't sound too different or imperative.Mid Disruptor though, is that still played?Brewmaster has been changed fyi.Should I make a separate guide for "Jungle" Wraith King? I've seen him play in the stream and he's not necessarily a "jungler" but just there to avoid taking exp. So it can go either way.I'm seeing Medallion, Urn even Maelstrom on him.The order and item selection doesn't seem clear:Q - W max with EBoots -> Blink -> Wand -> Treads -> Medallion, Urn ?? https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)

idonthinksobro Profile Joined December 2010 1610 Posts Last Edited: 2014-07-19 15:01:17 #1674 medaillon, urn, maelstrom are all good items on him, special emphasis on having a magic stick / wand to have enough mana for your ult. He shouldn't sit in jungle doing nothing tho, think of him rather as a roamer like a venge. Blink first seems hard to farm if you don't want to sit idle forever, get urn or treads first.



I'm sorry for being so lazy right now it is just way too hot to think.

Torte de Lini Profile Joined September 2010 Germany 7680 Posts #1675 On July 19 2014 23:58 idonthinksobro wrote:

medaillon, urn, maelstrom are all good items on him, special emphasis on having a magic stick / wand to have enough mana for your ult. He shouldn't sit in jungle doing nothing tho, think of him rather as a roamer like a venge. Blink first seems hard to farm if you don't want to sit idle forever, get urn or treads first.



Let me try and fix him now; I won't do a separate guide; it'll be a separate tab. Let me try and fix him now; I won't do a separate guide; it'll be a separate tab. https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)

Torte de Lini Profile Joined September 2010 Germany 7680 Posts Last Edited: 2014-07-19 22:55:44 #1676 edit https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)

Torte de Lini Profile Joined September 2010 Germany 7680 Posts Last Edited: 2014-07-20 13:42:04 #1677 To summarize all changes done during The International 4



Redesigned entire front-page including statistics (new! Growth Rate Percentage), patch notes since Feb. 2013 and Imagery for guides



Patched a lot off heroes given the popular meta at TI4 such as Doom as support/roamer and new guides including Skywrath Mage (Lane), Dragon Knight (Middle) and Lycan (Lane) + Drafting guide for Techies that is coming soon



Grab statistics for July 19th, 2014. Includes new statistics of Average Growth Rate % to see the pace at which new subscriptions are acquired. Applied to all previous statistics and posted on the front page.



Finalized some long-awaited changes such as gearing Wraith King as a roaming support (new guide soon) and Faceless Void as a some early-game option and overall cleaning up some outdated items on some heroes (Hood of Defiance/Drums of Endurance).



Rewrote every description for every hero and ability and item. Over 2,500 rewrites (4 abilities for 127 guides * Hero General Description and 10 to 15 item rewrites per guide = 2,540)



Feels good to relieve my laundry list finally; but it was way too time-consuming.



I forgot I have to change his abilities. It needs to be a separate guide unfortunately.



Feels good to relieve my laundry list finally; but it was way too time-consuming.I forgot I have to change his abilities. It needs to be a separate guide unfortunately. To-do Guides:

Suggestions for new guides are appreciated



Fix Naga Siren Middle Skill Build (max Illusions or Rip Tide first?)



Jungle Wraith King (roamer)



Mid Disruptor?



Mid Brewmaster?



Mid Gyrocopter? https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)

Sn0_Man Profile Joined October 2012 Tebellong 31461 Posts Last Edited: 2014-07-29 17:33:26 #1678



Level 1 armor is a really good skill but going 4-1-1-1 at level 7 essentially gives up lich's defining early-game advantage (sacrifice abuse for infinite nukes and a substantial experience advantage).



For a cookie cutter build I still would recommend something like e/q/e/q/q/r/q/w/e/e/r, possibly giving up a point in nuke for the early armor level depending on how badly you need the armor.



I feel like at least 2 points in sacrifice asap are non-negotiable (even 3 might be right at 5) but that you have to kinda make the judgement call between damage (frost blast) and defense (one level of armor) based on your lane. Don't forget that lich's mana costs are built around sacrifice.



PS your guide description makes no sense

Wait why did you change lich's skill order? (I actually only noticed this cuz TotalBisquik was using ur guide the other day).Level 1 armor is a really good skill but going 4-1-1-1 at level 7 essentially gives up lich's defining early-game advantage (sacrifice abuse for infinite nukes and a substantial experience advantage).For a cookie cutter build I still would recommend something like e/q/e/q/q/r/q/w/e/e/r, possibly giving up a point in nuke for the early armor level depending on how badly you need the armor.I feel like at least 2 points in sacrifice asap are non-negotiable (even 3 might be right at 5) but that you have to kinda make the judgement call between damage (frost blast) and defense (one level of armor) based on your lane. Don't forget that lich's mana costs are built around sacrifice.PS your guide description makes no sense Lich is a staple support hero that works great with any team. In addition to his nuke ability Sacrifice, Lich maintains his strength in his Chain Frost ultimate that can really tear down a team and slow them long enough for your carry to sweep them. Make sure to use ice armor at any chance you get given its low cooldown and cost.



Ice Armor is an incredible ability that can relent pushes due to it being able to be casted on towers as well as causing slowness to enemies who focus heroes with the buff casted.

Basically you called his nuke the wrong name and didn't really emphasize HIS BEST ABILITY sacrifice which both gives you all the mana you need and steals the enemies experience.

Something closer to Basically you called his nuke the wrong name and didn't really emphasize HIS BEST ABILITY sacrifice which both gives you all the mana you need and steals the enemies experience.Something closer to Lich is a staple (stable?) support hero that works great with any team. In addition to his (high-damage/low cooldown/spammable) nuke Frost Blast, Lich maintains his strength through the midgame with his Chain Frost ultimate that bounces between grouped enemies dealing excellent damage and offering a powerful slow.



His third skill Sacrifice not only solves all your mana needs, it also steals the experience from creeps that you use it on. ALWAYS use it whenever it is off cooldown for the free experience and to deny your enemies, even if you don't need the mana. Remember to keep Ice Armor on yourself, your teammates and your towers whenever there is a risk of them being attacked

if that fits. Honestly as I've said, Lich's biggest strength is sacrifice. Even if you specify to always spam sacrifice in the skill description, I don't think people read those very often tbh.



Anyway, thats my 2c, the guides are urs. if that fits. Honestly as I've said, Lich's biggest strength is sacrifice. Even if you specify to always spam sacrifice in the skill description, I don't think people read those very often tbh.Anyway, thats my 2c, the guides are urs. Moderator SCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302

Torte de Lini Profile Joined September 2010 Germany 7680 Posts Last Edited: 2014-07-29 19:01:11 #1679 edit https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)

Torte de Lini Profile Joined September 2010 Germany 7680 Posts Last Edited: 2014-07-29 19:47:52 #1680 TotalBiscuit was using my guide? How honoring!



I'll fix it now, thanks for your feedback. The guide was revised in view of the popular meta of pushing early-game (around 6), so I will fix it.



Please take a look at my other changes as I have done a lot in the past weeks with little confirmation on its validity.



edit https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)

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