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[Editor’s note: NFLPA president Eric Winston joined Wednesday’s PFT Live on NBC Sports Radio and NBCSN from Lucas Oil Stadium, site of the Scouting Combine. A full transcript of the interview appears below.]

Q: “So in your role as NFLPA President it’s been an interesting few years and an interesting development this week that nobody really knew was going on. An arbitration over an allegation that the NFL was pulling some money away from what would go into the salary cap funding. Explain it in the simplest terms possible for the folks out there curious about what this was.”

Winston: “It’s not a complicated matter. Basically, in the CBA they’re allowed certain revenues that can be kept for stadium financing for paying down debt, for building new stadiums, and at the end of the day they created a new category that wasn’t allowed by the CBA. We audit and we’re allowed to audit through the CBA every piece of revenue that comes in. During our audits we found the new category that they had made. They had shuttled a bunch of money over into that category. We said that’s not right, they disagreed with us, and we took it to an arbitrator and the arbitrator ruled right from the bench.”

Q: “And it’s so rare in any type of legal proceeding, they always take it under advisement, this one’s so clear it happens from the bench. Do you think that they kind of accidentally misinterpreted the CBA? Or they set out to funnel money away from the pot that would go to the players?”

Winston: “What do you think?”

Q: “Well, I want to know what you think.”

Winston: “Listen, this is part of the reason I think sometimes when people see us trying to work with them and vice versa and how hard it is to get things done. This is some of the reason for it, you know? You can’t assume anything with them. You can’t assume that things are going to be done the right way and, listen, I like to think that was an honest error but if it was an honest error then why haven’t they apologized? Why haven’t they said what this is [or] “Our bad, we made a mistake”? That hasn’t happened, so obviously it’s the other one because that’s the only other way I can look at it.”

Q: “And because they dug in and they fought it tooth and nail, like they fight everything tooth and nail.”

Winston: “Well, sure. And for them unfortunately at this point the remedy is them just having to give back the money. How many things have they taken all the way to an arbitrator that obviously they knew they were going to lose? Or if they didn’t know they were going to lose they felt like, ‘Well the repercussions aren’t such that well if lose, oh, no big deal we’ll still be back.’ Now going forward we’re probably going to have to look at ways now to remedy this and that’s a sad thing. That’s not good for our business, that’s not good for the NFL but it is where we are.”

Q: “And it’s not good for the relationship, because the relationship at some level has to be founded on trust. What impact does something like this have on your ability to trust anything the NFL does?”

Winston: “The players have seen examples over and over and over now of them skirting the rules, of them trying to go around something that was clearly intended, clearly written in a certain way. Whether it’s in personal conduct, whether it’s financial matters now. I mean those things ring very loudly to players and I field a lot of calls about this. I field calls from former players, from current players about this and they’re upset. I mean, this is one of those things that go right to the core of our business is money and you can’t take from somebody and expect not to be some hard feelings, expect to be upset. It hurts everything going forward and it’s unfortunate.”

Q: “Last week it came out that in the last fiscal year Roger Goodell made $34 million. A lot of people have opinions on that. How do the players react when they see how much the Commissioner makes verses how much DeMaurice Smith the head of the union makes? Because it’s not $34 million.”

Winston: “No definitely not, it’s a little less. You know, I don’t think we equate that. Listen, we love De. I think he’s done a great job. The players last year resoundingly reelected him as our executive director. That’s their business if they want to pay their CEO that money. We pay our CEO what we can and obviously the owners feel like they pay what they can and that’s the way the market works. That’s the way we look at it. I don’t try to make any correlations between the two.”

Q: “You’re here this week in part for meetings with the Competition Committee. This is the portion of the calendar where the Competition Committee hears what the players think about certain rule changes things maybe the players want. What’s the number one thing that the player’s would like to see change for 2016?”

Winston: “Well obviously I think we want to see some clarification on the catch rule, I mean I think that’s everybody. Every fan wants to see some clarification of the catch rule. I think they want to see a little more black and white. I think we’ve gone so far in the rule book of trying to make perfect rules. No rule is going to be perfect but if it’s clear, then everybody can be happy with it. I think that’s the problem is that the rules have become unclear and so nobody sitting at home, nobody knows. Was that a catch, was that a fumble, is that incomplete? And that goes for a lot of different rules. Was that a facemask, was that not a facemask? And that’s the problem I think of where we’ve gotten so far into the weeds with our rules now. That they’ve become unclear to the common fan and I think we need to take a hard look if we’re putting in a new rule. Is it clear? Is it black and white? Is it easy to officiate too because officials have maybe the hardest job now that they ever have. I mean, you look at what they’re asked to do now. It is so hard on them trying to officiate a game that it’s impossible for them to get everything right and I think they’re worried about getting the technical calls so right now they’re starting to miss the little calls. That’s upsetting and that’s frustrating for the players, it’s frustrating for the fans, it’s frustrating for the coaches. So we gotta go back and make sure that we’ve got clear rules. That they’re clear and concise and they’re easy to officiate.”

Q: “They talk about changing the catch rule all the time and it seems like the more they talk about it the more clear it is they’re not going to do anything to change it. Do you hold out any hope that they’re going to make a real change to that rule this year?”

Winston: “Well the hope I hold out is that they’re going to make a hard good effort towards it and that they’re going to bring in as many opinions as they can. I’m eager to hear what opinions they’ve brought in already. I would hope they’ve got opinions from receiver coaches, from players, from everybody. So I’m eager to see, you know, hopefully our guys have some ideas. Hopefully they have some ideas and who knows I think when you get in a room, you start exchanging ideas, maybe something can come of that. I’m a hopeful person in that sense that if you keep bouncing and talking around long enough that you can find some answer for it.”

Q: “You play for the Bengals. You were on the field for the Wild Card game between the Steelers and Bengals, the Saturday night game. It got ugly; it got out of hand. How concerned are the players about striking the right balance between having good rivalries and drama and compelling games versus having it go too far with players inflicting unnecessary violence on other players?”

Winston: “I mean we’re all in it together, and that’s just something I’ve always believed in since we’re all trying to make a living. We’re all trying to play, we’re all trying to stay healthy. So I think we’ve got to go as far as we can but at the same time we’re all trying to win too, and those competitive juices get going. You have a rivalry now where the Bengals and the Steelers have been going on for a long time in a division that’s known to be quote-unquote nasty division. With the Ravens and Browns, we go at it twice a year and then of course you put a third time in there. The crowd was jumping and it was a situation — it was an unfortunate situation obviously no one wants to see a game end that way. There was a lot of things that went into it I think that aren’t as publicized that maybe they should be, but it is what it is. And so as professionals on the field we’ve got to hold ourselves up to the highest standard. We’ve got to do what’s right for each other out there and at the same time like you said the compelling nature of the games. I think the rivalries take care of themselves. You know, we don’t have to worry about those but we do have to worry about each other. We just got to keep trying to stay as professional as we can.”

Q: “The things not publicized as much as they should be. The threats made against Vontaze Burfict is that what you were referring to?”

Winston: “I put it in perspective, I put that game in perspective for someone. I said the other team probably should’ve had two coaches that had personal fouls and we were the ones out of control. You know, that’s perspective for that game and those are the things that I think don’t go unnoticed by players. Why is a coach doing that? Why is a coach in the middle of the field? Why is a coach yanking on a guy’s hair and so those things have to be looked at. Then all of a sudden after the game you expect, ‘OK, well, the coach is going to get fined.’ And then they get a slap on the wrist. While you see players around the league getting fined exorbitant amounts for things they feel like are bang-bang plays. So those are things that have to be looked at too by the league because those aren’t isolated incidents. Players see something here and then they go here and they make that connection and those can’t be isolated incidents.”

Q: “How much ability though does the union have to really force that change on the NFL? Is it just something you point out and hope they do the right thing? Or can you really effect change as it relates to how they would discipline coaches in those situations?”

Winston: “Well, listen, we’re going to point it out. We’re going to be loud about it. We’re going to say like, ‘Listen if this is the way it’s going to be it needs to be the same way for everybody,’ right? To me the coaches, executives all should be held to a higher standard to players and the players are held to a high standard already. So that’s the problem that I have with it is that you’re almost holding players to a higher standing than you are the coaches and we all know the coaches are supposed to be the authority figure around the players. So to me it’s an inverse relationship that shouldn’t be the way it is.”

Q: “[You were] drafted ten years ago by the Texans in the third round, free agent in two weeks. Will it be the Bengals? Will it be someone else? Is it wait and see?”

Winston: “Well obviously it’s always wait and see at this point of year but you know I love playing with the Bengals. I think it’s a great organization. We got a great group of guys there. We got a very talented group of guys, it’s a talented team and you know obviously we caught a few unlucky breaks. Andy [Dalton’s] injury, I thought AJ [McCarron] came in and played great but any time you lose your starting quarterback that affects a team and we were rolling there for a while. So I’d love another chance to go and see if we can finish it off the right way because like I said I think we’re as complete a team as there is out there. But we’ll see what happens you never now in this league as we’re gonna find out a lot of twists and turns over the next two weeks.”

Q: “And most importantly how will Andy Dalton’s inability to secure his luggage manifest itself in the locker room?”

Winston: “Poor Andy I tell you what, he’s gonna hear from me about that. What kind of guy would go right on Twitter and expect them to be returned and then gets the bags returned? A bunch of the guys were on text messages laughing about it, but I’m glad Andy got his bags and made that vacation.”