A few days ago, I received several messages from friends saying they heard a segment on NPR about kink that mentioned me. Naturally, I was curious to give it a listen, but mostly because kink is a topic that I’m not sure I’ve ever heard covered on NPR—and I listen to NPR a lot! It turns out that the segment is all about what the kink community can teach us about sexual consent and communication, and it’s pretty well done.

Toward the beginning, they reference the research I did for my book Tell Me What You Want on sexual fantasies to make the point that we’re all a little kinky in some ways. Then they go on to discuss why sexual communication is vital for everyone, regardless of whether they have “vanilla” or kinky interests. They also discuss different ways of thinking about sexual consent, such as using negotiation checklists ahead of time and replacing opt-out consent policies with opt-in policies.

Check out the full segment below to learn more. For more on what the kink and BDSM communities can teach us about sexual consent, see here.