In an interview with the Los Angeles Times, outgoing White House Chief of Staff John Kelly undercut President Donald Trump’s pet project, a wall between Mexico and the U.S. saying it’s not exactly what is needed.

Speaking with the Times,m Kelly claimed, “To be honest, it’s not a wall.”

“The president still says ‘wall’ — oftentimes frankly he’ll say ‘barrier’ or ‘fencing,’ now he’s tended toward steel slats. But we left a solid concrete wall early on in the administration when we asked people what they needed and where they needed it,” Kelly continued.

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Asked if w a wall was needed and if Trump has drummed up immigrant “invasion” fears, Kelly ducked the question, saying only: “We do have an immigration problem.”

You can read the whole interview here.