Memphis-born songwriter Julien Baker is a perfect and beautiful example of the glorious and unexpected ways that music and art can change a person’s life. Just a couple of years ago, Baker found herself situated in Memphis, Tennessee studying an English literature degree and hiding fragile and intimate songs behind closed doors. Before she knew it, the unexpected success of her 2015 debut, ‘Sprained Ankle’ had people across the globe connecting with her music in a big way. Since then, non-stop touring and support slots for some of the world’s largest bands have followed, so it’s a wonder that Baker has had the time to work on her sophomore record ‘Turn Out The Lights’.

We spoke to Julien about marriage equality, her adoration for Australia’s united and tight music scene, the power and endeavour of art and how to not freak out while playing shows with your idols.

Best Before: Hey Julien! Nice to chat to you!

Julien Baker: Hey Isabella! It’s nice to speak to you too. How are you doing?

I’m doing alright! How are you?

I’m doing really well. I’m in Amsterdam!

Are you touring over there at the moment?

I’m not touring but I’m on a press trip, which is bizarre because I’ve never been on a press trip.

How’s that been?

It’s been interesting, you know! It’s a foreign idea to go on a trip and not bring musical equipment. When they first proposed the idea of me coming over here, I was like, “what do you mean we’re not playing shows?”, but I’ve gone and talked to a lot of cool people.

When are you heading back into touring?

I fly home in about a week and then I have two weeks off before I start the eastern U.S. tour around the release of the record. Then I go over to Europe, come home and then go over to the west coast.

I love Australia and the music scene is really amazing. I think that y’all consume heavier music and rock music more readily.

Wow, that sounds so exciting! And you’ve just finished doing some shows over here in Australia for Splendour In The Grass. You’ve been over here quite a bit recently too, what keeps you coming back?

Every time I come to Australia, I have a great time. I mean, the crowds are really engaging and I love it! We spent almost a week in Melbourne the last time we were there.

Oh cool! I’m in Melbourne right now.

You’re in Melbourne right now?

Yeah! I don’t actually live here though, I’m just on a holiday.

Where do you live full-time?

I live in Sydney.

I wish the two cities were closer together, because Melbourne has my favourite guitar shop and Sydney has my favourite record store of all time. The guitar place is called Deluxe Guitars and when I walked in for the first time, it was like when all the kids enter the big candy room in the Willy Wonka movie. There were pedals everywhere and I ended up going there three days in a row and staying for hours. My favourite record store in the world is Resist Records.

Yes! Ah, Resist is so good!

Literally, I’m so glad you know what I’m talking about because every time I go into that store I see things that I haven’t seen anywhere else and it’s like they took my interests and made them into a shop. But yeah, I love Australia and the music scene is really amazing. I think that y’all consume heavier music and rock music more readily. There are bands that do kind of well over in the U.S. but then they’ll play in Australia and be huge.

Do you have any favourite Australian acts?

Camp Cope, man!

They’re so good! I saw them play last week!

Aren’t they incredible? The first time I came to Australia I was a Camp Cope fan, and so I requested for them to open a show. But yeah, I feel like it’s a really familial and casual scene, there’s not a lot of formality to it and it’s really comfortable.

It’s pretty great! Australia’s pretty cool for the most part. I mean maybe not so much with the politics side of things. Have you heard about the marriage equality survey?

Look, I have heard about the marriage equality survey. I typically think of institutionalised racism, homophobia, and conservative-led xenophobia as something particular to America. However, when I was over in Australia, I went and saw an art show about the Aboriginal population and to me, it looked like how the native American population was and is currently treated. I started to see these parallels between Australia and the U.S. But yeah, I heard about the marriage equality thing and I was just like, I can’t believe this is still an issue that is being talked about. I mean, it’s just hard to mitigate though, right? It’s just that I can’t actually believe that you really haven’t dealt with it yet!

Totally. I guess we should get to talking about your music, though.

Yeah. haha

I want them to tell that I’ve poured every ounce of the passion I have for music into the record. To make something that they can have, hold and feel that intense emotion in too.

I just listened to your new album and it’s absolutely incredible! You should be so proud of it, I loved it so much.

Oh wow! I’m so glad. I’ve been really worried about this record because sophomore records are hard so it’s so nice to hear that. Thank you!

You’re welcome! I think what I really loved about it is when you compare it to your last one, it’s sonically a bit of a jump but the intimacy and heart is still completely there. You’ve expanded to a bit of a larger sound that includes more instruments and the record as a whole is more extroverted, I guess. What was different in making this record as opposed to your first one?

I wanted this record to be a lot more intentional and deliberate. I made ‘Sprained Ankle’ not knowing that it would be an album, so it just sounds like a collection of songs. I wanted this one to act more like a body of work. To be quite transparent, I don’t think I’ll ever get used to how it feels to do music as my job. When I think of having the confidence to ask someone to pay however much money for a ticket or a record, I want them to tell that I’ve poured every ounce of the passion I have for music into the record. To make something that they can have, hold and feel that intense emotion in too.

That’s really lovely and people can obviously feel how thoughtful and genuine you are with your art because you’ve accumulated so many people that care so deeply about it over the past few years. Has it been overwhelming to gather that reaction?

Oh man, it’s been bizarre. Seeing the number of listeners grow to be at what they now are has been crazy. I never presumed that anyone would hold my music in the way that I hold other bands. Touring has made the global power of music very obvious and tangible to me. When I went to Australia for the first time, I was on another hemisphere of the globe and people that I’d never met were singing my lyrics back to me. I was just absolutely overwhelmed at how lucky I am and how much bigger the community and endeavour of music is than just myself. Instead of becoming successful and then using my art to seek recognition and gain accolades, I would rather try to re-focus the attention onto the crowd. When I look at listeners, these people all contain a wealth of experience and getting in touch with them personally has really given me a lot of perspective on my position in the world.

I just remember seeing Hayley Williams be this confident, talented, powerful, successful and reputable female vocalist and thinking, “wow!”, that is exactly the kind of thing I want to do.

As well as just general music lovers connecting with your music, you’ve got support from huge artists and bands, like Paramore and Death Cab For Cutie. How has that been?

I got to open for Ben Gibbard and then later, Death Cab and it was just a surreal experience because me having a conversation with that guy is just like, “I write songs the way I write songs because you write songs the way you write songs”. A lot of times, I think that I need to ‘maintain my cool’ around these people that are my heroes and I just can’t. I end up saying “I’m sorry, you’re a huge deal to me”. I think that’s better though, right?

Totally! I think there’s something really nice in that and people are only going to be flattered. I think it’s silly to try and pretend you’re totally cool with having a casual conversation with your idol.

Yeah! I mean, I lost it when we played a show with Paramore. That band has a lot of emotional baggage for me. When I was a kid and I started trying to play guitar, I was really nervous about my vocals and also because I was the only girl at the shows I was at. I just remember seeing Hayley Williams be this confident, talented, powerful, successful and reputable female vocalist and thinking, “wow!”, that is exactly the kind of thing I want to do. If you were a female in the pop-punk scene in the 2000s, Hayley Williams was undoubtedly a hero and to meet that person was incredible. The band watched my entire soundcheck and I had to end it early because I was so nervous.

That’s adorable, omg! I would honestly be the exact same, don’t worry. They were and still are a huge deal for me and seeing Hayley be this badass woman fronting such a wildly successful band in a male-dominated scene is something that is still so impactful.

I know! Hayley and I talked a bit later and she thanked me for writing one of my songs and I just thought it was surreal because there are so many songs of hers that I listened to and they would give me hope because I felt like we were similar people in similar places in our lives with some similar experiences. It was just this *sighs* surreal inversion.

That’s amazing. Julien, I think we’re like very overtime but I wish you the best of luck with the album and touring it too. It’s just been so nice to chat to you!

Absolutely! Thank you so much. Have a good evening!

Yeah totally, thank you! Have a lovely morning, haha!

*laughs* Bye!

Listen to the lead single from Julien Baker’s sophomore album, ‘Turn Out The Lights’ (out October 27th):