Q: Do you grieve when Americans die?

PA: Yes.

Q: Do you grieve when an American soldier is killed at war?



PA: Yes.

Q: Do you grieve when an American police officer is killed in the line of duty?

PA: Yes.

Q: Do you grieve when an American teacher is shot and killed in the safety of their school?

PA: Yes.

Q: And do you grieve when an American student is shot and killed in the safety of their school?

PA: Yes.

Q: Do you grieve when an American child loses a battle to cancer?

PA: Yes.

Q: Do you grieve when an American parent dies of natural causes too soon, leaving their children motherless or fatherless?

PA: Yes.

Q: Do you grieve when an American teenager is killed in an automobile accident?

PA: Yes.

Q: So, you are saying that your heart is big enough to grieve for all of these people?

PA: Yes.

Q: Are you patriotic?

PA: Yes.

Q: So you support the US Constitution?

PA: Yes.

Q: The Second Amendment?

PA: Yes.

Q: And the First Amendment?

PA: Yes.

Q: To be clear, let me read the whole 1st Amendment.

PA: Ok.

Q: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. - You agree with all of that?

PA: Yes.

Q: Is human life precious?

PA: Yes.

Q: Is it more precious than a pencil?

PA: Yes.

Q: Is it more precious than a pen?

PA: Yes.

Q: Is it more precious than the ink in the pen?

PA: Yes.

Q: Is it more precious than ink in general?

PA: Yes.

Q: Is it more precious than a jacket?

PA: Yes.

Q: Is it more precious than a pair of pants?

PA: Yes.

Q: Is human life more precious than the cotton in your jeans?

PA: Yes.

Q: Is it more precious than any fabric?

PA: Yes.

Q: Is it more precious than ink and fabric?

PA: Yes.

Q: So you would rather save a human life than ink and fabric?

PA: Yes.

Q: Would you do anything to protect your children?

PA: Yes.

Q: Would you protest?

PA: Yes.

Q: If taking a knee could save your child’s life, would you take a knee?

PA: Yes.

Q: If taking a knee could save your niece or nephew, would you take a knee?

PA: Yes.

Q: If taking a knee could save the child of your friend, would you take a knee?

PA: Yes.

Q: If taking a knee could save the child of a total stranger, would you take a knee?

PA: Yes.

Q: If taking a knee could save your child’s life, but you had to take a knee during the national anthem, would you take the knee?

PA: Yes.

Q: If taking a knee could save your niece or nephew’s life, but you had to take a knee during the national anthem, would you take the knee?

PA: Yes.

Q: If taking a knee could save the child of your friend, but you had to take a knee during the national anthem, would you take the knee?

PA: Yes.

Q: If taking a knee could save the child of a total stranger, but you had to take a knee during the national anthem, would you take the knee?

PA: Yes.

Q: So, to generalize, you would take a knee to save a life, even if taking a knee had to happen during the national anthem?

PA: Yes.

Q: Is that because human life is more precious than ink and fabric?

PA: Yes.

Q: Can ink and fabric be replaced?

PA: Yes.

Q: Can a human life lost be replaced?

PA: No. People are irreplaceable.

Q: Do some people have experiences that you don’t have?

PA: Yes.

Q: Is “walking a mile in someone else’s shoes” a good idea if you want to understand why people make the choices they do?

PA: Yes.

Q: In general, do you think other people would do anything to protect their children?

PA: Yes.

Q: Do you think other people would take a knee if it meant saving their child’s life?

PA: Yes.

Q: Do you think other people would take a knee if it meant saving the lives of their nieces or nephews?

PA: Yes.

Q: Do you think other people would take a knee if it meant saving the life of the child of their friend?

PA: Yes.

Q: Do you think other people would take a knee if it meant saving the life of a child of a stranger?

PA: Yes.

Q: Do you think other people would take a knee to save their child’s life, even if it meant they had to take a knee during the national anthem?

PA: Yes.

Q: So you would take a knee during the anthem to save your child’s life, and you think others would too?

PA: Yes.

Q: And do you think others would take a knee to save the lives of their nieces or nephews, child of their friend, or child of a stranger?

PA: Yes.

Q: If someone says, “I’ve had life experiences that are different than yours,” would you believe them?

PA: Yes.

Q: Is that because everyone has distinct experiences from everyone else?

PA: Yes.

Q: Is that also because, even if you had similar experiences, no two experiences are identical?

PA: Yes.

Q: And is it possible that it could be because others can have experiences totally unlike anything you’ve experienced?

PA: Yes.

Q: Would you be angry if the United States government killed your child?

PA: Yes.

Q: Would you be sad if the United States government killed your child?

PA: Yes.

Q: If you thought it would keep other people’s children from being killed by the United States government, would you exercise your Second Amendment rights?

PA: Yes.

Q: If you thought it would keep other people’s children from being killed by the United States government, would you exercise your First Amendment rights?

PA: Yes.

Q: All other things being equal, if both resulted in saving other people’s children from being killed by the United States government, would exercising the First Amendment be preferable in most situations?

PA: Yes.

Q: So, if you thought it would keep yours or other people’s children from being killed by the United States government, would you exercise your First Amendment right to protest?

PA: Yes.

Q: And if you thought it would keep yours or other people’s children from being killed by the United States government, would you exercise your First Amendment right to free speech and take a knee?

PA: Yes.

Q: And if you thought it would keep yours or other people’s children from being killed by the United States government, would you exercise your First Amendment right to free speech and take a knee during the national anthem?

PA: Yes.

Q: So there are some situations where it would be justified to take a knee during the national anthem?

PA: Yes.

Q: And is that still because human life is more precious than ink and fabric?

PA: Yes.

Q: Even when that ink and fabric is a United States flag?

PA: Yes.

Q: Did you know that there are people protesting during the national anthem at sporting events?

PA: Yes.

Q: And that their protests take the form of taking a knee during the national anthem?

PA: Yes.

Q: What is it that you think they are protesting?

PA: They are protesting the flag and the national anthem.

Q: So you would be surprised if I told you that’s not what they are protesting?

PA: Yes.

Q: Did you know that police officers are agents of the state?

PA: Yes.

Q: Did you know that people are taking a knee during the national anthem to protest the killing of children by police officers?

PA: No.

Q: Did you know they people are taking a knee during the national anthem to protest the killing of unarmed persons of color by police officers?

PA: No.

Q: But remind me again - if your child was killed by the United States government (and by US Government here I mean any agent of the state, including state or federal police officers), you said you would be willing to protest?

PA: Yes.

Q: And in this situation you would even be willing to take a knee during the national anthem?

PA: Yes.

Q: And if you took a knee during the national anthem, taking a knee would not be to protest the anthem or the flag, but to call attention to your child who was killed by agents of the state?

PA: Yes.

Q: And again, unless you have walked a mile in someone else’s shoes, it’s hard to know what their life experiences are?

PA: Yes.

Q: So that, a good way to learn from others’ experiences is to believe them when they explain what their experiences have been?

PA: Yes.

Q: One last question. If you aren’t a person of color, and you don’t share their life experiences, but listening to them and believing them is the best way to understand their life experiences, and they say that their children, and brothers, and sisters, and fathers, and mothers, and husbands, and wives, and aunts, and uncles, and friends, and family are being killed by the police, and they wish to peacefully exercise their First Amendment right to free speech by kneeling during the national anthem to call attention to these crimes against their families, and calling such attention to these crimes is not about the flag or the anthem or even the First Amendment, but to the crimes themselves, then how is their kneeling any different from what you would do if it were your children, or brothers, or sisters, or fathers, or mothers, or husbands, or wives, or aunts, or uncles, or friends, or family that were killed by the police?

PA: ……..

Q: No further questions.

(*Note* Q stands for “question.” PA stands for “probable answer.”)