In an interview with Chuck Todd on MSNBC’s The Daily Rundown this morning, Heritage Foundation senior fellow Brian Darling argued for the importance of Florida-style voter suppression laws in order to stop potential voter fraud. But when pressed by Todd to identify any actual examples of voter fraud, Darling appeared stumped:

DARLING: And there’ve been examples of voter fraud… in Florida. Look at ACORN.

TODD: Where is this voter fraud? I mean it is not this giant…

DARLING: We’ve had recent examples.

TODD: We’re talking about one or two people here, one or two people… and we’re not even a hundred percent sure.

DARLING: We just had a Michigan Congressman [Republican Thaddeus McCotter] resign… not run for re-election because he gathered signatures… his campaign gathered signatures that couldn’t be validated.

TODD: Yeah, but that’s a case of petition signatures being valid. I mean that’s a different law here.

DARLING: Yeah, but it’s very hard to catch voter fraud. Look at what James O’Keefe did. He walked into DC, he didn’t have any ID. One of his guy video…

TODD: Did he vote?

DARLING: No, he didn’t vote.

TODD: See?

DARLING: He didn’t vote. But he asked for a ballot and they were gonna give it to him.

TODD: Right, but you’re actually proving the point here. That the fraud didn’t take place because they prevented it.

DARLING: But it’s very hard to catch the fraud. That’s why you have to do it before Election Day. If you try to do it on Election Day, you’ll never catch any of the fraud.