On March 29, one week after the jihad massacres in Brussels, Geert Wilders, the leader of the Party for Freedom (Partij voor de Vrijheid, PVV) spoke in the Dutch Parliament about what had happened, and the danger that Islam poses to the Netherlands. He was immediately set upon by the usual ankle-biters of the Left (and the “Center Right”, i.e. the VVD) who denounced him for “dividing” the country.

In the video below, pay close attention to the back-and-forth between Mr. Wilders and his detractors — you’ll notice a subtle shift in the center of gravity of the debate. Some of his opponents now grudgingly concede his point that there is a problem with Islam in the Netherlands, and just savage him for his proposed solutions, or for being an “extremist” about it, etc. In other words, the argument is shifting from whether there is a danger posed by Islam to the best way to deal with that danger.

Many thanks to H. Numan and Kericjang for time-stamping the translation, and to Vlad Tepes for the subtitling:

Transcript:

00:00 (Wilders = W) Mme. Chairman, another atrocity, this time in Brussels.

00:09 Indescribable scenes. Heartbreaking images. Who is not devastated?

00:16 Everyone is shocked, and rightly so.

00:21 But still, nobody dares tell the truth. And the truth is hard,

00:26 however hard the elite tries to deny it:

00:29 these attacks are the direct result of the Islamic ideology.

00:33 The Koran endorses jihadist terror.

00:37 The war against us has been going on for 1,400 years.

00:42 The second truth is this: the jihadists move like fish in the water of the Muslim communities.

00:49 They are heroes there. Salah Abdeslam spent four months in Molenbeek. He ordered pizzas.

00:59 He walked the streets. He walked past the police station for the fun of it.

01:03 Everyone knew it, everybody saw it, but everyone was silent.

01:09 This silence, this silence of the Muslim communities is our problem.

01:14 The day before yesterday, four dangerous terrorists were arrested in Delfshaven.

01:19 On Tuesday: cheering Muslim children in a school.

01:24 Moroccans shouting “Allahu Akhbar” in prisons.

01:27 And again, there is hardly anyone in the Muslim community speaking out against the jihadists.

01:39 (Pechtold=P) Does Mr Wilders really think that after such horrific attacks,

01:43 the Dutch are waiting for a Dutch politician to say:

01:47 I speak the truth and only I know what is going on?

01:53 Has Mr. Wilders not seen that there were many other reactions from the Muslim community?

02:01 In this country, the religious leaders, ordinary people and mayors

02:05 like Aboutaleb, all reacted differently than he describes.

02:10 Why is Mr Wilders, who is the first speaker, sowing division?

02:19 Does he not see that more than 90%, I would even say 99% of the Dutch are standing together?

02:26 (W) People like Mr. Pechtold and parties like D66 are the reason we’re in trouble.

02:35 For decades these parties have kept our borders wide open.

02:39 They are stubborn cultural relativists who think that Christianity and Islam are basically equal.

02:47 I’m sick of all these lies, all this political correctness.

02:51 Every year, in all cities of the world and, increasingly, in Europe, there are innocent deaths.

02:58 People are being killed because of the Islamization which we allowed here.

03:06 It has to be enough. Enough is enough.

03:09 I don’t apologize for that. Every debate again, I’ll keep hitting this nail on the head.

03:17 Then, I come to Mr Pechtold’s second question.

03:22 Barring a few exceptions, I’ve barely seen them.

03:27 I saw 100 people in Rotterdam, I saw 80 people in Amsterdam. But where are the demonstrations of thousands,

03:31 I say, tens of thousands of Muslims all over the world

03:36 and in the Netherlands, saying: this is not my Islam? They’re absent.

03:40 They’re not there, Mr Pechtold.

03:43 Only a handful of people dare to speak out. I salute them, but the masses are silent.

03:49 Indeed, the masses support it. In Molenbeek, a terrorist was protected by the Muslim community for months.

03:57 That is a problem and we have to deal with it.

04:01 (P) Never before has Mr. Wilders drawn the line so clearly, accusing

04:07 Islam, the Muslim religious community and terrorism as one single unit.

04:15 My question to him was whether he only sees negative things.

04:19 Does he not agree with me that it is important at a time like this, after heinous attacks like this,

04:25 to unify and defend our values, values which also apply to people with a Muslim background who were born here?

04:38 My next question to Mr Wilders. What has he done to preserve this unity?

04:43 How has he himself eased people’s fears?

04:46 What did he do to ensure that we do not confront each other, but together condemn terrorism and tackle it?

04:58 (W) In recent decades, throughout Europe, we have imported millions of people from a culture of hate

05:05 who do not want to integrate, who do not want to assimilate, and nor did they have to,

05:10 because governments in Western Europe did not demand it.

05:13 I stand here after yet another attack.

05:16 I stood here twice last year, together with you,

05:19 in January after the Paris attacks and in November after the next Paris attacks.

05:25 I said then what I repeat now: how many deaths,

05:28 how many innocent victims will still be needed before you in the House

05:32 and in the cabinet will finally realize what is going on?

05:36 We have imported a monster, and this monster is called Islam.

05:40 Everyone who refuses to acknowledge that Islam is the problem,

05:46 is partly responsible for all the current misery.

05:50 (P) People are responsible for the way they interact with their faith.

05:53 People, individuals are responsible for their actions.

05:58 All of us condemn terrorists who are inspired by the Koran or by whatever source.

06:08 But Mr Wilders generalizes. Mr Wilders lumps everyone together.

06:11 Mr Wilders frightens people who mean well, who want to build a future here,

06:16 who have not been imported here, as Mr Wilders says, but were often brought over,

06:24 have fled, and try to build a future here.

06:29 Again, I ask Mr Wilders why without any restraint he equates Muslims with terrorists,

06:40 meaning that they’re all guilty.

06:45 (W) This isn’t what I’ve said. I repeat what I said though,

06:52 as often as Mr. Pechtold might repeat his question. We have imported a monster, Islam.

06:57 I also tell Mr Pechtold that it is not the small minority that matters.

07:03 It is the large majority that tolerates, that allows.

07:07 This was the case under Stalinist Communism, when people were murdered in the Gulag by a small minority,

07:14 but the majority allowed it. This was the case under Fascism,

07:18 when people were killed by Nazi Germany, but a majority allowed it. This is the case now.

07:25 Of course, the number of terrorists is a minority of all Muslims, but the majority tolerates them.

07:32 We saw it in Molenbeek, where the biggest terrorist in Europe,

07:36 who was responsible for the Paris attacks in Paris, was protected by

07:40 the Muslim community in Molenbeek for four months.

07:43 He could go from place to place, walk the streets, chat to people and order pizzas,

07:50 and no one turned him in. The majority tolerated it.

07:54 We must get rid of the problem that is called Islam.

07:59 (Roemer=R) In previous debates, you could sometimes still hear a somewhat nuanced phrase from Mr Wilders.

08:07 Now even in his introduction all nuance is gone.

08:10 It is now obvious that he has said here that everything that has to do with Islam

08:14 and Muslims shares in the guilt. He lumps an entire population together.

08:21 How dare you actually deny that you are not aware that you are inciting populations against each another?

08:29 (W) Mr. Roemer has either listened very badly or doesn’t get it.

08:32 I’ve been talking about Islam.

08:35 I’m talking about the minority that commits the attacks and the majority that tolerates it.

08:39 This is reflected in every study. I have here a study from not so long ago, showing — to give just one example —

08:47 that 70% of Muslims in the Netherlands feel that religious rules are

08:52 more important than the laws enacted here in parliament.

08:57 Previously, we saw that over 80% of Turkish youths say that Syrian fighters are heroes.

09:03 These are hard figures. I didn’t make them up, they are available.

09:07 I don’t say that all Muslims are terrorists.

09:10 But I am saying that Islam is a vicious, hateful, violent ideology which unfortunately,

09:16 as in Molenbeek, can function because the majority tolerates it.

09:22 We can see this, because where are the mass demonstrations opposing the attacks?

09:26 I haven’t seen them yet.

09:29 (R) 1.5 million people in the Netherlands, who believe that they, too, have freedom

09:34 of religion here, and who all have a different view on their religion, feel addressed.

09:39 They feel ostracized and they feel ignored; all because you systematically,

09:46 today perhaps more than ever, lump them together. Let’s be clear.

09:53 Many of these young people were born in our neighborhoods, bred and raised.

09:59 Many of these neighborhoods were neglected, also by the policies of

10:03 the first Rutte cabinet for which you were partly responsible, which cut back on police officers,

10:06 welfare, child support and so on. If only you would take took responsibility for this,

10:12 then you could participate in a Netherlands where we all live together,

10:17 and are not inciting people against each other in such a horrible way.

10:22 (W) The SP leader is one of those who tries hardest to look away.

10:30 He is one of those who looks away every time we are talking about restricting

10:34 the influx of asylum seekers. That has everything to do with terrorism.

10:37 There is a whole list of terrorists who entered Europe together with the influx of asylum seekers.

10:42 Let’s look at the terrorist attacks in Paris last year.

10:46 Two of the culprits entered as asylum seekers. Every time when we of the PVV here, in the House,

10:50 said that we had to do something about it and had to close our borders,

10:54 the party of Mr. Roemer, the SP, said no, no, the more who come here, the better;

10:58 let’s not do anything. Mr. Roemer looked away.

11:01 He refuses to see what is endangering our country and what many of his voters

11:05 had enough of, namely importing even more Islam. That is why are in trouble.

11:12 (R) I refuse to look away it when it comes to people who want to practice their faith

11:19 in a decent way in the Netherlands.

11:23 I refuse to follow Mr. Wilders as he lumps them all together

11:27 and says that all of them are bad, that they are no good because they remain silent

11:31 and that they are inferior to the rest.

11:34 Indeed, I refuse to follow Mr. Wilders as he systematically discards people

11:42 and incites communities against each other.

11:45 I am saying that we have to deal with people who commit attacks and should prevent radicalization.

11:55 But all my party’s proposals in this Chamber to avoid radicalization, to promote integration,

12:04 to prevent segregation and to give all young people in the Netherlands equal opportunities,

12:09 are systematically rejected by the PVV. That is looking away!

12:15 (W) Mr. Mr. Roemer says that I blame those who remain silent. Indeed, I blame them.

12:23 The Muslims in Molenbeek knew that Abdeslam, the Paris terrorist,

12:30 was hiding in their neighborhood. Almost all of them knew.

12:34 It was no secret in the Muslim enclave there.

12:37 I blame them for being silent, for not informing the police, I blame those who chatted with him in the street,

12:43 the pizza delivery man who could bring him a pizza, the fact that

12:48 he could provocatively walk past the police station.

12:52 If you read the Belgian newspapers, it appears that people afterwards said with pride:

12:56 he was one of us and we did not turn him in.

13:00 If there is a terrorist in the neighborhood, you turn him in.

13:03 If you don’t, you’re no good. That is the truth.

13:07 (Kuzu=K) A well-known Flemish proverb says that if you point to someone

13:11 with one finger four fingers are pointing at yourself.

13:14 Mr Wilders says the majority tolerates it.

13:18 I myself was in Rotterdam to speak to an audience of 200 people. Probably Mr. Wilders has also seen that.

13:24 Do you know what I heard from these people but also from many people who called in?

13:29 They asked: is it safe enough to go on the street? There has also been a terrorist attack

13:35 here in the Netherlands. Two weeks ago, a Molotov cocktail was thrown in broad daylight in Enschede.

13:40 Where was Mr. Wilders then? Why did he not defend the Netherlands? Why did he not summon the Prime Minister

13:46 to the Chamber? Does Mr Wilders care about the Netherlands? Or only about himself?

13:52 (W) The PVV abhors violence, against anyone.

13:56 I’ve been saying for years: if someone touches a mosque,

13:59 he must be caught and punished hard.

14:02 All violence is wrong, against anyone. Now, regarding those 200 people. Don’t make me laugh!

14:08 The Netherlands has one million Muslims, and here is Mr. Kuzu referring to a demonstration of 200 people.

14:13 In Amsterdam, there were 80 people. But where are the tens of thousands of Muslims protesting in the streets?

14:22 They aren’t there. They aren’t there because one way or another they refuse to distance themselves.

14:28 (K) The issue is not to distance oneself from what is happening.

14:31 The issue is what terrorists are doing to our society.

14:36 Every time, Mr Wilders goes a step further.

14:39 He does exactly the same as the terrorists, namely sow fear and fuel division.

14:45 Mr Wilders can state whatever he wants, but his followers know all too well what he finally intends.

14:53 Ms Tanja Meijer, well known to Mr Wilders, indicates that Muslims should be exterminated.

14:58 The PVV parliamentarian Dion Graus says Muslims should no longer be allowed to work at Schiphol airport.

15:02 Recently, last weekend, it became clear what de-Islamization means,

15:07 namely when a woman in broad daylight went up to a Muslim woman and ripped off her headscarf.

15:13 Is that the Netherlands that Mr. Wilders wants?

15:17 (W) No, you keep your hands off people and don’t use violence.

15:20 I’ve always said and I will always repeat, that we have to get rid of Islam.

15:24 Absolutely. We must de-Islamize. The importing of Islam is the biggest mistake we have made during the past century,

15:33 in the Netherlands and in Western Europe. If we don’t stop it, if we keep allowing the influx of asylum seekers

15:39 and this mass immigration of people from a culture which is life-threatening to everybody

15:45 and considers non-Muslims to be inferior, a culture preaching violence, then our children

15:52 and grandchildren will no longer live in a free country.

15:55 Until my last breath, I will fight to prevent that.

15:59 (Chair) To conclude, Mr Kuzu. (K) It is once again clear what Mr Wilders represents.

16:02 He gets a 10 for putting his head in the sand when it comes to his own responsibility,

16:10 but he gets a zero for empathy for the Netherlands, for empathy for all the Dutch.

16:16 Once again it is clear that Mr. Wilders does not care about the people, but only about the polls.

16:20 He probably thinks: just one extra terrorist attack and I’ll be the next prime minister.

16:27 That’s what he tweets: if I become prime minister, then…

16:31 He should ask himself what message he is conveying

16:37 to the Netherlands and how that affects the Dutch people.

16:40 (Chair) Let us debate about content and not get personal. Mr Wilders, you can comment.

16:45 (W) I have nothing to say to that.

16:50 (Klaver=KL) I will try a different tone. Let’s see where it gets us. Mr Wilders, I accept a lot from you.

16:55 You should be able to say anything you want. What disturbs me is your tweet:

17:01 This prime minister is an accomplice to what happened in Belgium. What you are saying today to my colleagues

17:09 is that they are also accomplices, to colleague Roemer and to colleague Pechtold. Mr Wilders,

17:12 you might not like to hear it, but we all belong together.

17:16 I belong to you, you belong to me and we belong to this prime minister.

17:19 Especially in times like these it is important that we stand together

17:22 and know who the enemy is. Your enemy — look around you, Mr Wilders — cannot be found here.

17:27 The enemy is IS, we all agree on that. It must be fought.

17:32 What does it say about you, Mr Wilders, if you are constantly looking

17:35 for conflict with your colleagues in the House? What does that say about you?

17:38 (W) It says that you don’t get it, and that the whole House is putting their heads in the sand.

17:44 It says that no one dares admit that Islam is a problem.

17:49 When I say that our Prime Minister is morally — that is what I said —

17:53 responsible for eventual deaths, then I mean — I stand by this —

17:57 I have been saying it for years, that one should immediately imprison returned Syrian fighters.

18:02 I think one should not allow them to return at all, but if they do, lock them up.

18:09 This does not happen in the Netherlands today.

18:13 People return from Syria and can freely roam our streets.

18:17 A handful were jailed, but most were not.

18:20 If one of those people carries out an attack, what you have not prevented by jailing them,

18:25 then you are at least morally complicit because you allowed them to walk around freely,

18:32 and that is terribly wrong. We have seen what the returned jihadists from Syria are capable of.

18:40 We have seen it in Paris and during the attack on the Jewish Museum in Brussels a few years ago.

18:45 We have already seen in several places that returned Syria fighters kill people.

18:49 Hence I say: do not let them return, and if you’re so stupid to allow them in again,

18:56 imprison them immediately.

18:59 Already in 2005, before this problem started with Syrian fighters,

19:03 after the murder of Theo van Gogh, I advocated administrative detention.

19:06 If you fail to do that, you have to face the consequences.

19:10 (KL) Unbelievable. (W) But true.

19:13 (KL) Unbelievable. You are choosing the wrong enemy, Mr Wilders.

19:17 You choose the wrong enemy. He is not here. Aim your arrows elsewhere.

19:22 You were the first who was tweeting after the attacks in Paris. Only your second message was about the victims.

19:29 You sent out 29 messages in the immediate hours after the attack,

19:33 with only four words of compassion: terrible, what immense suffering. That was it.

19:37 The rest were only news items in which you were mentioned and which you retweeted.

19:42 You were angry at journalists who had not judged you positively enough.

19:45 You were angry at the prime minister because he was an accomplice.

19:48 You wanted to be prime minister. Me, me, me, me.

19:51 Again, Mr Wilders: what does it say about you that you react in this way to such a terrible tragedy?

19:58 (W) Indeed, I am terribly angry. I am terribly angry that I have to respond

20:02 to these stupid questions over and over again. I am terribly angry that here

20:05 in Parliament and in the Cabinet we only have people who refuse to recognize the problem.

20:13 When it comes to asylum or terror, they talk only nonsense,

20:16 just like your party, about economic disadvantages or the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, or whatever.

20:19 We have a problem because we imported millions of people to the Netherlands

20:22 and Europe from an Islamic culture, without asking them to adapt to us.

20:30 We adapted to them. That’s the problem!

20:33 If you refuse to recognize that, you are, indeed, part of the problem.

20:38 (KL) Mr Wilders, I keep repeating: we belong together. Whatever you do or however you are going to react,

20:42 I will keep saying this because I do not want to see us divided.

20:46 I’m talking about not allowing Muslims and Christians to be divided,

20:49 and this just as well applies to you, to me and to the cabinet.

20:53 29 tweets, Mr Wilders. 29 tweets with only four words of sympathy.

20:58 Even now, you are only ranting and raving. What does this say about you?

21:03 I have only one word for it: you behave like a political scavenger.

21:07 Even from you I expected better, Mr Wilders.

21:11 (W) I’m not going to respond to all this. 40 years of mass immigration

21:15 and Islamization has very badly affected our country.

21:21 Molenbeek is a reality in the Netherlands as well.

21:25 Our country is already inundated with districts where non-Western immigrants

21:29 are by far the majority. Let me give a few examples.

21:32 The Hague, Schilderswijk 85%. Transvaal: 78%. Rotterdam, the Feyenoord district 58%.

21:41 Delfshaven: 58%. Amsterdam, New West: 51%. Zaandam, Poelenburg: 61%.

21:49 The Nieuwland district in Schiedam 55%. Oosterwei in Gouda 55%.

21:55 And last but not least Kanaleneiland, Utrecht 68%. The elite remains silent.

22:01 There is a dictatorship of silence.

22:04 Remaining silent about the truth, not honestly referring to the source of the problem,

22:10 is jihad’s best friend. This costs lives.

22:14 The truth is that the cause of all the Islamic terror is Islam and nothing but Islam.

22:22 It wants to dominate. I tell everyone in the Netherlands:

22:28 we will never be safe as long as we don’t acknowledge this. Never.

22:36 We must do all we can to defeat the jihadists.

22:39 I just said in my response to my colleague in this debate that ever since 2005,

22:44 after the murder of Theo van Gogh, I have advocated administrative detention.

22:49 The past years, I have filed over twenty motions. If only you had listened,

22:56 then a lot of misery would have been spared us.

23:01 What I also don’t understand is that we are still not closing our borders.

23:04 That surely should be our first priority.

23:07 Hundreds, perhaps thousands of jihadists are ready to strike.

23:12 Undisturbed, they can enter our country.

23:18 I really don’t understand why our borders are still open.

23:23 (Haersma Buma=HB) After the litany of Mr Wilders, I have a question about closing the borders.

23:27 There are a few countries in Europe that have closed their borders:

23:31 Hungary, Bulgaria and Macedonia. The only way to do so is to build a fence.

23:37 (W) No. (HB) Then the border isn’t closed.

23:41 (W) No, the borders are closed to everyone whom we do not want here.

23:45 In the past, we had some 400 border crossings in the Netherlands.

23:50 I suggest that we man them all again. We have 40,000 soldiers in the Netherlands. Hence, I think we can do it.

23:58 The army’s task is not to ensure the safety in foreign countries but to ensure safety in the Netherlands.

24:05 So I say the following. Man all border crossings again, all 400 of them.

24:09 Use the 40,000 soldiers. If necessary, let the army also patrol between the border posts.

24:15 Use drones and other modern equipment.

24:19 And keep everyone out whom we do not want in our country.

24:25 Keep the border closed to anyone without a residence permit, every terrorist, every asylum seeker.

24:30 Shut the border for everyone whom we do not want in the Netherlands.

24:36 (HB) Thus far, Mr Wilders said: close the borders.

24:40 But to the first question I ask, he replies: No, I do not close the border,

24:44 I want to reintroduce border controls. Say it!

24:48 Because there are more parties here that want to talk about better border controls,

24:52 including the CDA and the VVD, I think, and others.

24:57 But the way Wilders is talking, leads us nowhere!

25:00 He yells: close the borders. But that will not happen.

25:03 He just wants to restore border controls. I would say: come with a proposal to that end and we will discuss it.

25:08 (W) We have been advocating this for months! You don’t listen, Mr. Buma! You just don’t listen.

25:13 We have been saying for months that we want to close the borders for asylum seekers and for terrorists.

25:18 You should have listened. In 2005 and the years thereafter, the PVV,

25:24 then Group Wilders, advocated the preventive detention of terrorists,

25:28 of people who may have something to hide.

25:31 The CDA was always against it, but now I read that you are in favor.

25:34 You do listen, but do you listen five years too late! That is your problem.

25:39 (HB) Listening is not the issue, acting is. You say, first close the borders.

25:44 We all know that you are not going to close the borders. That is clear.

25:47 You want border controls, but this requires quite a bit.

25:50 Near to where you live, in Kerkrade, the border follows the length of the road for about a kilometer.

25:58 Is the army really going to patrol the streets in Kerkrade/Herzogenrath,

26:07 on a cross-border industrial complex, in the Achterhoek, where villages extend across the border?

26:12 There, thanks to you, people will soon see soldiers in the street. Is that the picture?

26:16 (W) Do you know, Mr Buma, what people will see if we fail to do that?

26:21 Do you know what people will see when we allow terrorists into our country?

26:25 Do you know what people will see if our borders are a big Swiss cheese with holes?

26:31 Terrorists operate internationally. These past days, we have seen terrorists being arrested

26:37 in Rotterdam, Dusseldorf, Brussels and Paris; they can travel around freely.

26:43 5,000 jihadists from Syria have returned to Europe. Europe has open borders.

26:51 If we do not close our borders, we will soon witness the Brussels scenes in Amsterdam.

26:57 I rather prefer to close the borders and, yes indeed, sometimes deploy the army

27:00: or other means, than thousands, hundreds, dozens of deaths, also in the Netherlands.

27:11 (HB) Mr Wilders once accused me to be the biggest liar in the Netherlands and the world.

27:18 But quite honestly, the statement “I will close the borders” is not the truth, to say the least.

27:24 (W) It is the truth. (HB) If he wants to speak the truth, Mr. Wilders should never repeat it again,

27:27 He only wants border controls. If I subsequently ask how, he has no idea.

27:32 He should start with a concrete proposal on how to do it.

27:39 First, visit all the towns and villages that lie partly in the Netherlands and partly in Germany, and then

27:42 return with what it would cost and what would be needed. If Mr Wilders does that instead of shouting slogans,

27:48 the entire Chamber is willing to discuss how to make it work.

27:58 (W) It is always a pity if a colleague group leader who has prepared an interruption with his staff,

28:04 very proudly steps forward and then, after getting an answer, keeps pretending he has not

28:07 been given the answer. It is a pity and it does not reflect well on Mr Buma. Because I have given the answer.

28:13 The borders are closed. The borders are closed to everyone who is not allowed to be here;

28:17 he cannot enter anymore. That’s one. Two. I also said how we are going to do it.

28:21 We are going to man the old checkpoints again, we will deploy drones and the military.

28:25 We have 40,000 soldiers to do it. I explained it all, Mr Buma.

28:29 It is more your problem than mine that your interruption did not work out well.

28:35 (HB) That is Mr Wilders’ view.

28:38 I agree with him that we should keep everyone out whom we do not want here…

28:42 (W) That is a gain then. (HB) …but a Moroccan with a Belgian passport from Molenbeek

28:45 will not be stopped by that border control. He can drive on. The Moroccan,

28:49 the Turk or whoever with a French passport

28:52 is just a Frenchman who is allowed to pass your border control, Mr Wilders.

28:57 (W) That remains to be seen. (HB) You do not close the door at all. (W) I disagree. Today he can

29:00 just enter the country in a thousand ways, but when passing the border post he will be picked out, and checked

29:07 from a hundred thousand angles when we know that he is listed.

29:12 You can laugh about it, but that is what I propose.

29:15 We will check whether he is on a terror list or a criminal list.

29:22 If so, we will not allow him in.

29:26 (P) If a colleague proposes something — Mr Wilders has already softened it somewhat,

29:31 because for him closing the borders means not to do it literally with fences,

29:34 but just border controls — we have to question the feasibility.

29:40 In a previous debate, I told Mr Wilders that we have 400 border crossings,

29:45 apart from the potato fields which as a terrorist you will prefer when there are border controls.

29:52 Mr Wilders, do you have any idea how many vehicles, hence

29:56 no planes or boats, cross the Dutch border daily?

30:00 (W) No, but quite a lot. I think we will also have to control between the border crossing points,

30:04 as I said, with drones and with the army.

30:08 Everyone here in the Chamber can try to ridicule it, but I tell you,

30:14 if we continue to import so many Muslims in the Netherlands

30:20 and open our borders to Islamization, if we continue to allow the influx of asylum seekers,

30:26 if we do not close the borders — that’s what the majority of you here are doing:

30:30 you do not close the borders, you leave them open and allow asylum seekers and immigrants to enter

30:37 — then Molenbeek, Brussels, is what the future has in store for us in the Netherlands.

30:42 I want to prevent that. I speak out. The PVV says: we should not allow it.

30:48 And I believe that about half of the Dutch also want what the PVV wants,

30:55 namely close the borders to people whom we do not want to have here.

30:59 (P) My experience with Mr. Wilders is that whenever you ask a simple question,

31:03 you get a very long answer, because Mr. Wilders is on thin ice.

31:06 I just asked him if he knew how many vehicles cross the Dutch border every day.

31:13 He said that everyone in such a vehicle would be controlled a hundred thousand times.

31:18 I suppose that was symbolic, but everyone has to be controlled.

31:22 400,000 vehicles cross every day. Would Mr. Wilders be willing to tell me

31:32 how these checks will affect our exports and what the feasibility is of his plans?

31:40 That you scare people is one thing, but that you tell them fairy tales

31:44 in order to create a feeling of security, is, I think, even worse.

31:52 (W) You know, if we fail to do it, despite the numbers you mention, the damage will be worse.

31:58 A human life, and the sorrow of the relatives, brothers, sisters, parents and partners,

32:05 of the people killed in Brussels and Zaventem, cannot be compensated with

32:09 any amount of money and is beyond compare.

32:15 Even if we were to deal with a million vehicles, I think we should make the effort to check them

32:19 and make the Netherlands safe. That is my answer, whether you like it or not.

32:25 (P) That Mr Wilders does not live up to his promises was already clear in 2010.

32:29 Then, he was in government. He always says that when he is in power,

32:34 zero refugees will enter. But, when he was in government, more than 16,000 refugees entered.

32:42 The proposals of Mr Wilders are fearmongering.

32:46 They provide some kind of engineered security which is unfounded and not thought through.

32:51 The biggest problem is that Mr. Wilders today not only claims a monopoly on the truth,

32:58 but also a monopoly on the grief for what happened in Brussels.

33:03 I think that more and more people who not often speak out, have had enough of this.

33:07 They have has enough of the black and white worldview

33:10 of Mr Wilders. If you are a Muslim, then you’re either a terrorist or you’re someone who allows it.

33:17 If you’re a member of parliament, you’re either PVV or you belong to the acquiescing elite.

33:24 That is Mr. Wilders’ worldview.

33:28 When you question him about his ideas and what happened in recent years, he fails utterly.

33:37 (W) I see no question here, but let me say that it is in any case clear from all the polls

33:43 that the popularity of D66 is not exactly soaring.

33:48 Perhaps I should even start worrying about it,

33:52 since for the first time in the history of D66 it appears that 5% of the D66 voters

33:56 consider voting for the PVV.

33:59 The situation could hardly be stranger.

34:02 I understand from the screaming words of Mr. Pechtold

34:05 — who obviously is not very happy about this situation —

34:08 that it is painful, but ever more people understand that we are right.

34:13 Including D66 voters, Mr Pechtold.

34:16 (KL) There are days when I think: what would it be wonderful to have such a simple worldview as Mr Wilders.

34:21 When closing the borders is the solution for just about every problem.

34:25 I have a list here which I would like to read to Mr Wilders.

34:28 I will ask him a question. Chérif and Saïd Kouachi; Amedy Coulibaly; Ismaël Omar Mostefai;

34:35 Samy Amimour; Mohamed Foued-Aggad; Bilal Hadfi; Brahim and Salah Abdeslam;

34:42 Chakib Akrouh; Abdelhamid Abaaoud; Khalid Ibrahim and El Bakraoui.

34:48 These are the people who committed the attacks on Charlie Hebdo,

34:51 in Brussels, Paris, and at the Jewish Museum.

34:55 Do you know, Mr Wilders, what these people have in common, except the fact that they have committed an attack?

35:00 They hold French or Belgian nationality and were all born in Europe.

35:04 In what way would closing the borders have helped to prevent these people from committing their attacks?

35:09 (W) So, we will also need to de-Islamize. What you do, when you have a problem…

35:14 (KL) Madam Speaker… (W) No, I will first finish my answer. (Chair) One minute, Mr. Klaver.

35:17 (KL) I want to raise a point, Madam Speaker. Mr Wilders is elaborating again, but I have a very specific question.

35:20 (W) What you have to do when you have a problem, is first close the tap.

35:24 If there is a leak, first close the tap before you start mopping the floor.

35:28 Otherwise, it will not be very effective. So first close the tap.

35:33 Close the borders for people from Islamic countries and check the borders.

35:38 That is the first step. No extra asylum seekers in the Netherlands; we have had enough.

35:41 We have seen that terrorists enter with them.

35:45 Step two is that we need to de-Islamize the Netherlands.

35:50 We will have to get rid of Islam. We will have to induce, willingly or unwillingly,

35:53 people who are already in our country, from a culture that is not ours,

35:57 who commit such acts, to leave our country.

36:02 (KL) I had a pretty simple question. I mentioned a list of the bombers.

36:06 Mr Wilders says the Prime Minister and all of us are accomplices if we are not prepared

36:11 to close the borders. He then elaborates on why this is necessary.

36:14 I point out that the attackers were all born here or have at least the Belgian or French nationality.

36:21 I repeat my question: how would the closing of the borders, which Mr Wilders advocates,

36:27 have stopped these people from committing these attacks? I want a very clear answer, Mr Wilders.

36:31 (W) I just gave the answer. You must do two things.

36:34 You need to ensure that you do not get extra people in anymore;

36:37 hence, closing the borders is the first thing to do. Make sure the terrorists can no longer enter the Netherlands.

36:43 Make sure that you close the borders. That is not the answer that Mr Klaver wants to hear, but that is the answer I give.

36:49 The second thing is that people who are born here and cause problems have to dealt with strongly.

36:54 This applies, for example, to Moroccans. Moroccans often have dual nationality.

37:00 Moroccans are — these are facts — overrepresented in crime.

37:07 We propose, whether dealing with crime or terror, to de-naturalize these people,

37:11 after they have served their sentence, which hopefully is very severe.

37:16 Deprive them of their Dutch passport, and send them back to Morocco.

37:21 (KL) I will simply go back to my question. (W) Then you will get the same answer.

37:24 (KL) Mr Wilders is making a huge fuss about closing the borders.

37:27 I have a problem with that. Terrorism is a very complicated problem.

37:31 It is unfortunately rooted in our society itself; it is homegrown, so to speak.

37:34 It was born here. The bombers were born here.

37:39 If only it were so simple that we could close the borders, send in the army and fix the situation that way.

37:45 However, the reality is that this is not the case.

37:48 A solution is not achieved by screaming hard but by working together,

37:51 by not seeing all of us here as opponents, but by trying to work with us,

37:58 how we could make the Netherlands and Europe safer.

38:01 I repeat my question. Do not beat around the bush, Mr Wilders. I think I know the answer, actually.

38:05 Closing the borders would not have stopped

38:08 these people from committing their attacks, unfortunately.

38:13 (W) We should not have opened our borders in the first place, not have allowed mass immigration

38:18 to continue for decades — Green Left, the party of Mr Klaver, was always cheering for it —

38:23 and we should have stopped a culture which is not ours.

38:26 I have reproached Ms Halsema, one of Mr Klaver’s predecessors,

38:31 once because she proudly stated in her election program that the Dutch culture does not exist.

38:39 I still think it is a scandal that the Green Left said

38:42 — I am not sure whether it still is in the election program — that the Dutch culture does not exist.

38:48 Mr. Klaver and his party have helped to import a culture of hatred and violence into the Netherlands.

38:55 If we had not done that, those people would probably not have been here.

38:59 (Chair) A brief response from Mr. Klaver. (KL) You often have to count to ten in a debate with Mr Wilders,

39:03 but I am sure I am going to succeed. Mr Wilders, when will you finally acknowledge

39:09 that the terrorists were born here, that they did not come from abroad, that they have not been imported?

39:14 These guys were born here.

39:18 You are always talking about “people who turn a blind eye”. Mr Wilders, if you keep talking like this

39:22 about these terrorists, then you are the only one who is turning a blind eye in this Chamber.

39:26 (W) I just gave you my answer.

39:29 (HB) When I asked Mr Wilders how to close the borders,

39:32 it appeared they would not be closed at all. Mr Wilders has said several times in this debate

39:37 that we should get rid of Islam, nothing more, nothing less, and anyone who doesn’t agree,

39:43 is naive, looks away or is partly responsible.

39:46 If you then ask what measures Mr Wilders wants to take, he answers that

39:49 criminal Moroccans should be deprived of their dual citizenship

39:52 and returning terrorists should be locked up.

39:56 That doesn’t match. Mr Wilders also says that we must get rid of Islam.

40:01 If he doesn’t want to be denounced as someone who does not tell the truth,

40:06 let him tell what to do. “Getting rid of Islam” means only one thing: ban a religion.

40:11 (W) Perhaps eventually it will come to that, but for now we will have to ensure

40:17 that we keep Islam at a minimum in the Netherlands.

40:21 This does, indeed, mean that we will have to close the borders to more Islam, that we have to close the borders

40:24 to immigrants from Islamic countries and

40:28 that we no longer allow asylum seekers to enter. As you said yourself,

40:31 earlier we proposed to denaturalize criminals and therefore also terrorists after serving their sentence.

40:37 We have said: no Islamic schools, no mosques, no Koran and so on.

40:41 Over the past ten to fifteen years, I have made ten thousand proposals relating to de-Islamization.

40:50 You can blame me for many things, but not for having not done that.

40:53 (HB) Here is Mr. Wilders again with all sorts of proposals.

40:56 Some of his proposals you support and some you don’t; at least one can talk about them, but

40:59 that is not what he did earlier. He said: “We must get rid of Islam.” At least that is what I recall.

41:06 (W) That is how it is.

41:09 (HB) You are saying now that in the long term we might perhaps come to the point of forbidding a religion,

41:15 but you are also saying: “We must get rid of Islam.” If you mean what you say,

41:18 all Dutch will have to believe with you that we will get rid of Islam,

41:23 but then you will also have to make it happen. Or you just say: there are problems

41:30 with Islam, here and there; we have to pay more attention and take harder action where it goes wrong.

41:33 That is what your measures really achieve. (W) Firstly, there is nothing I have to do, even if Mr Buma says otherwise.

41:37 Secondly, there are many roads to Rome; which should appeal to Mr. Buma.

41:42 The measures I just mentioned are intended to make it unattractive to profess Islam here

41:47 — for example because it is difficult to get here, because there will

41:50 no longer be family reunification, because it is harder to find a mosque,

41:53 because you no longer have any kind of Islamic schools or in any way. This way you will

41:56 get less Islam and we de-Islamize.

42:00 It is possible. Again, I have been advocating this for fifteen years.

42:03 If you had paid attention, you would have seen that I have already

42:06 made a hundred proposals to that end. (Chair) Mr Buma, your last question on this topic.

42:09 (HB) We began this debate with the tough sentences “We have to get rid of Islam.

42:12 Anyone who does not agree with this is partly responsible.”

42:15 I have nothing more to ask, because we have already reached the end.

42:18 It was a huge step from “less Islam” and “counteract excesses.”

42:22 150 people here want to counteract the excesses.

42:25 Mr Wilders, who says very loudly here that the borders have to be closed

42:28 and that we must get rid of Islam, ultimately ends with measures which we consider reasonable.

42:35 I would say: be a man, say out loud what you ultimately want

42:38 to be done in practice and do not use all those nonsense texts.

42:42 (W) I am glad to have the CDA on my side for the reasonable proposals to close mosques,

42:47 to close Islamic schools, to ban the Koran,

42:50 close the borders to people from Muslim countries and no longer allow any asylum seekers.

42:54 It is a gain to have just heard from Mr Buma that he finds all those proposals pleasing.

42:57 (K) Mr Wilders really said it: “Islam should be banned in the Netherlands,”

43:03 in time or whenever. He is, however, also speaking about Dutch culture.

43:09 Dutch culture in my opinion is characterized by tolerance.

43:16 How does banning a belief fit in a culture that according to Mr Wilders is Dutch?

43:22 (W) Again my words are being twisted, but the answer is that if we,

43:27 as a free country, want to survive,

43:32 we will have to learn to be intolerant of people and an ideology that is intolerant of us.

43:38 One of the failures of the Netherlands is that we have been tolerant of the intolerant.

43:44 We have to stop this. We should begin by being intolerant and resisting the intolerant people among us.

43:50 And Islam is an intolerant ideology.

43:53 This is evident from the fact that there is a death penalty for those who leave Islam.

44:00 One cannot be more intolerant and less free!

44:04 My party, the Party for Freedom, says: We must resist Islam. We must get rid of Islam.

44:10 (K) Mr Wilders talks about freedom, but we have this open society and not the freedom to practice a religion?

44:19 I cannot combine this, but you get angry at me, Madam Speaker,

44:23 when I personally confront Mr Wilders with a fact.

44:27 I want to draw the historical comparison again.

44:30 I can remember a statement by a person with a name I really would rather not mention;

44:35 let me be clear about that. I would rather not mention him, but it was exactly the statement made

44:40 just before the Second World War: we had to be intolerant of the intolerant.

44:46 That is exactly what is happening here right now, in parliament,

44:51 in the Netherlands in 2016! That is truly and truly sad!

44:56 (W) The words of my colleague are the words of my colleague.

45:00 The historical comparison is wrong for many reasons,

45:05 but also because we are repeatedly confronted by Islamic terror attacks

45:12 in the name of the prophet, in the name of the Koran and

45:16 in the name of Islam on innocent civilians in the Netherlands.

45:20 My party no longer accepts this.

45:24 (Chair) To conclude, Mr. Kuzu. (K) I, too, do not accept any attacks, in whatever name.

45:31 But I also see that there are attacks on mosques in the Netherlands.

45:36 Moroccans have nothing to do with that. Islam has nothing to do with that.

45:39 Mr Wilders easily distances himself by saying: Keep your hands off them.

45:45 But Mr Wilders, be a man and tell us what practical measures you propose to prevent such terror attacks.

45:53 (W) I condemn every terrorist act.

45:58 It is increasingly clear that Mr Wilders is unable to distinguish between

46:06 people who abuse Islam for political ideology and people who have the freedom

46:15 to adhere to a religion and to profess a belief. (W) Where do you get that?

46:23 (R) He says that all of Islam should be banned.

46:26 He therefore deletes Article 1 of the Constitution, on the freedom of religion.

46:30 He does this by failing to make that distinction, by lumping everyone together

46:37 and blaming half a million people in the Netherlands and many more beyond, for the fact that people

46:40 abuse Islam for political ideology.

46:47 And still you pretend that you do not incite people against each other?

46:51 (W) No, I do not do that at all. I don’t lump them all together. I am talking about an ideology.

46:55 And I say, with examples, that the majority permits what the minority does.

47:03 That was also the case with Communism, and with Nazism,

47:06 and with Fascism, and is again the case with Islam.

47:10 That is the reality, whether you like it or not. The PVV wants to end this.

47:17 (R) It is clear that, when you address the heart of the problem, you get no answer.

47:26 Then you get the entire blame over the whole Parliament,

47:29 the whole society and the whole Muslim community.

47:34 The fact is that we have to confront the large group of people

47:39 who abuse something in order to commit attacks. We have to take measures.

47:45 Also relating to the breeding ground where people radicalize.

47:50 For a whole hour now, the PVV has mentioned nothing, nil, nada,

47:53 to deal with this breeding ground.

47:57 In fact, when he was part of the Rutte I government,

48:01 he torpedoed all measures to remove the breeding ground.

48:05 He was always absent when it came to tackling segregation.

48:09 And now he is loudly grumbling that there is nothing good in the neighborhoods?

48:13 He was always present and could have put integration on the political agenda.

48:18 But every proposal on integration was voted down.

48:22 He is, indeed, busy to burden a whole group of people

48:28 with a feeling of guilt, while we here should tackle the abusers.

48:35 (W) Here you go again singing the same tune of your interruption fifteen minutes ago.

48:41 The one which you had prepared. But it is not true. We do not lump everyone together,

48:44 but we do say that the majority allows the minority to do what they do.

48:51 We must stop that. I have mentioned the example of Molenbeek.

48:54 That for three months a terrorist was able to submerge in the Muslim community there is a disgrace.

49:00 He should have been turned in immediately.

49:04 I am amazed that you are not appalled by this. I cannot repeat it enough.

49:07 I have mentioned figures which unfortunately show that the majority of Muslims

49:11 often support everything that has to do with extremism or terrorism.

49:16 Over 80% of Turkish youth say that those who leave for Syria to fight there are heroes.

49:22 Heroes! The University of Amsterdam says that more than 100,000 Dutch Muslims believe

49:26 that the use of force is justified to achieve a goal in the name of Islam. That is unbelievable.

49:33 You cannot just ignore that.

49:37 Our country is being destroyed by people who have no other response than that we have to unite.

49:40 (Segers=S) The Mayor of Rotterdam, Mr. Aboutaleb, a Muslim,

49:47 speaks out strongly against jihadism and the danger of it.

49:52 Is he an ally of Mr Wilders or is he is his enemy?

49:55 (W) I have nothing against the Mayor of Rotterdam.

49:59 I think that some of the things he said are okay, for example, about expelling people

50:02 and thereby saying you’re not welcome here.

50:05 However, the good man is also a bit two-faced. I have said it before in an interview.

50:09 He said, for example, that he wants his daughter, obviously a Muslim, to marry only a Muslim man.

50:17 That in my opinion is not a good example of integration, and actually I find it a bit contradictory.

50:21 There are many things on which I do not agree with him,

50:24 but I admit that Mr Aboutaleb also says strong things.

50:28 But unfortunately, he is an exception. Again, we have

50:31 One million Muslims in the Netherlands, Mr Segers, one million!

50:35 I had expected to see thousands of them in front of this building,

50:38 on the Dam in Amsterdam or on the Coolsingel in Rotterdam.

50:42 They are not there. They are not there!

50:47 (Chair) Mr Aboutaleb does not participate in this debate and cannot defend himself here.

50:52 So let’s try to be a little careful.

50:57 (S) Mr Aboutaleb is a very vocal participant in the public debate

51:01 and speaks out very strongly against jihadism.

51:04 Suppose Mr. Wilders were to face him or the thousands of Muslims who speak out against the armed jihad,

51:11 against the attack in Brussels and against other attacks, what is Mr Wilders’ message to them?

51:16 I am your enemy or I am your friend? Do they first have to renounce their faith

51:20 before they can be an ally, or can they be allies in the fight against the armed jihad?

51:26 (W) I will not answer this hypothetical question, because these people are not there.

51:31 Why are they not there? Because they silently approve, because they do not object;

51:37 because they still think in some way that Islam is justified because the Palestinians

51:45 or Syria are being bombarded by the Netherlands or whatever crazy ideas they might have.

51:50 Your question will, unfortunately, never materialize. That is precisely my point.

51:54 I wish you were right. But these people are not there,

51:57 because the majority at least tacitly condones the minority.

52:01 (Chair) To conclude. (S) That there is a problem in the Islamic community of Molenbeek is clear.

52:07 (W) Hear, hear! (S) Certainly. I have seen myself that there is radicalization in the Islamic world.

52:13 That is clear. That is evil. Do we confront evil? Do we fight the right or the wrong enemy?

52:21 If you approach someone like Aboutaleb by saying: you must first renounce your faith

52:24 and I want to eventually prohibit your belief — which you have just said,

52:28 Mr Wilders — then you are fighting the wrong people. We should stand with people

52:31 of good will who fight against the enemy

52:34 that we have now looked in the eyes, against jihadism. My question is

52:37 whether you are willing to form an alliance with Muslims of good will who,

52:41 often risking their lives, are fighting against the evil of jihad. Yes or no?

52:46 (W) The best contribution that Muslims can make to the fight against Islam, is to renounce Islam.

52:55 That should appeal to you. They should, for example, become Christians or atheists.

52:58 I think a lot of people in your constituency would also wish for Muslims to convert,

53:03 change religion, become Christians or atheists. That is not allowed by Islam.

53:09 That is punished by the death penalty. That would be a real contribution.

53:15 (Zijlstra=Z) Frankly, I agree with the analysis of Mr. Wilders that there is a problem in Islam,

53:25 namely in the wording and the way in which terrorist groups

53:30 and some currents that call themselves the “true Islam”,

53:35 use Islam to undermine or even overthrow our Western democracy.

53:43 But that is all. An essential part of our free Western democracy

53:51 is the fact that everyone, Muslim, Christian, Jew, atheist, or anyone else,

53:58 can enjoy the same rights and freedoms in this country.

54:03 Mr. Wilders is saying that the Dutch culture does exist. I agree, and we must defend it.

54:12 But is it not part of the defense of the cultural, liberal values of the Netherlands

54:18 that everyone in this country has to enjoy the same freedoms and equality, including Muslims?

54:27 I am not talking about the extremists, because we have to fight them.

54:30 But everyone in this country has equal rights, equal responsibilities and is equal.

54:35 (W) This is a cultural suicide statement.

54:38 The leader of the VVD is expressing cultural suicide texts.

54:43 We have a culture that is based on Christianity, Judaism and humanism, but not on Islam.

54:51 I assure you that Islam has but one goal and that is not assimilating,

54:57 not living together with us, but that is dominating us when Islam has its way.

55:02 The word “Islam” means “submission, to dominate.” That is what matters.

55:07 I would not want that we in the Netherlands give in to it,

55:12 so that we eventually lose our freedom.

55:15 (Z) That is not how it works. If we take the Dutch values seriously

55:20 — and I take them very seriously and believe we need to defend them more actively —

55:24 then this means that everyone is equal and everyone has the same freedoms,

55:29 including freedom of religion. This also applies to Muslims. If you take those values

55:32 as seriously as you say, you have to stand for that.

55:39 You cannot defend those values in word and in deed

55:42 and say that maybe we will have to abolish freedom of religion.

55:48 That is a fundamental value of the Netherlands. How are you going to do that?

55:54 How are you going to abolish freedom of religion for Islam?

56:00 What are you going to do if someone does not renounce his religion? Expel those people?

56:05 How do you want to de-Islamize?

56:08 Will you do that within the core Dutch values of equality and all freedoms?

56:13 Or are you going to give up the freedoms that we have fought for for centuries?

56:19 That’s the last thing you should do.

56:22 (W) Islam is not primarily a religion. That is the great fallacy of the VVD.

56:30 Islam cannot be compared with Christianity, Judaism and humanism.

56:35 Islam is an ideology, a dangerous ideology.

56:41 In fact, Islam is a totalitarian ideology, because you are not allowed to leave Islam.

56:45 If you leave Islam, you will lose your head, often literally.

56:49 That is not the case with Christianity, Judaism or Buddhism.

56:57 It is a totalitarian ideology that wants to dominate and reshape society.

57:05 And without contributing or integrating in any society.

57:11 If we equate Islam with all the other religions, we are doomed.

57:25 That is why immediately after leaving the VVD twelve years ago,

57:31 I proposed what Pim Fortuyn had earlier proposed: abolish Article 1 of the Constitution.

57:36 Replace it with another Article 1, stating that we have a leitkultur, as the Germans call it.

57:45 We in the Netherlands have a dominant culture based on Christianity, Judaism and humanism.

57:53 I am in favor of Christian schools, but against Islamic schools.

57:58 You should not allow those little boys and girls,

58:02 whom you want to integrate in the Netherlands, to be indoctrinated with an ideology of hatred.

58:07 We must not equate Islam with our culture.

58:11 Islam wants to destroy our culture, so we must treat it differently.

58:17 (Z) Islam? That is much too simple. There are, indeed, all sorts of problems with Islam.

58:27 Mr Wilders is right about that and many parties here, almost all of them I think, have referred to that.

58:32 We have to deal strongly with these excesses. We have to continue doing that.

58:35 There are all sorts of elements in the Islamic faith which give cause to concern.

58:39 The reality, however, is that a few hundred years ago, other religions also acted

58:42 against their subjects. I am concerned about something else.

58:49 If it starts to become an ideology — there, too, I agree with you —

58:57 but how do you want to fight this kind of radical ideological thoughts?

59:01 Are we going to do this by giving up our own freedoms and values?

59:05 Or are you saying with me that those freedoms, the equality of men and women,

59:13 gay and straight, and freedom of religion are the essence of the Netherlands and

59:17 must always be defended, also by the PVV?

59:20 If the answer to that question is “no”, then you discard the cultural values

59:23 for which the Netherlands has fought for hundreds of years.

59:31 (W) Let me reply to Mr Zijlstra by stating the following.

59:36 Research has been done by a scholar. His name is Ruud Koopmans.

59:40 I think many people here have heard of him.

59:43 He is a professor in Berlin and did research in 2013. What did he find?

59:51 54.5% of Muslims in the Netherlands want to go back to the roots, the basics of Islam.

59:57 His research revealed that 74% of Muslims in the Netherlands feel

60:02 that there is only one valid interpretation of the Koran and Islam.

60:08 That is three quarters. Here are a few quotes from the Koran.

60:12 Sura 8, verse 60: And prepare against them whatever you are able of power

60:19 and of steeds of war by which you may terrify the enemy of Allah.

60:23 Sura 47, verse 4: So when you meet those who disbelieve, strike their necks until,

60:28 when you have inflicted slaughter upon them, then secure their bonds.

60:33 Sura 8, verse 39: And fight them until there is no fitna and the religion, all of it, is for Allah.

60:41 I can continue like this for an hour. 74.3% of Muslims in the Netherlands, according to Professor Koopmans,

60:48 say there is only one interpretation of Islam allowed.

60:54 Mr Zijlstra, if we accept your cultural relativism it will be the end of the Netherlands.

60:58 I reject that.

61:01 Madam Speaker, I conclude. I have little time left,

61:05 so I’ll be brief about the terrorist Ibrahim El Bakraoui deported from Turkey.

61:16 He was deported to Schiphol.

61:19 The Netherlands received a message from the Turks, stating in huge letters: very urgent.

61:23 But the Netherlands did nothing. The answers do not reveal

61:26 whether the message had been opened, then or even now.

61:32 Turkey deports plenty of people to the Netherlands.

61:36 I read in the answers that, in 2015, 33 of the 39 expelled people,

61:42 that is 80 to 85% of the people Turkey which deported,

61:46 were involved in radicalization or terrorism. 85%!

61:51 You can almost say that everybody deported last year was involved in terrorism.

61:55 Yet, no alarm bells ringing.

61:58 How is it possible? What a mistake. How much crazier can it become?

62:04 I conclude. The Netherlands should not become Molenbeek.

62:08 We must get rid of our weak leaders.

62:13 If Mr Rutte does not recognize Islam as the cause

62:16 and if he does not immediately close our borders to people whom we do not want here,

62:20 then I will be obliged to present a motion of no confidence against the entire cabinet.

62:25 Enough is enough. It is time to wake up.