dozenfury AMD is going to really have to pull a shocker to even be competitive in the gaming segment before Vega is available. I don't see the Polaris 10 coming close to even the 1070.

This is where we agree and disagree.I agree they will have to pull a shocker. The difference is, I think it will be that shocker.Just because P10 is focused toward mainstream for efficiency/price/power, doesn't mean there will not be a higher-clocked/gddr5x close-to-~225w-capable variant. If that WERE the case (they abandoned that market until Vega), AMD would be an incredibly idiotic company. I think people give them too little credit, especially when they've said over and over chip is made to scale across a ton of different markets.I still have absolutely no idea if a GDDR5x model will happen right away with P10, or if they will focus on mobile/<150w/perhaps slightly greater than 150w but still GDDR5 (for overclocking potential) for initial launch....or what. But it WILL eventually happen, and logic simply dictates with their supposed price and flop/gbps bw perf (extrapolated from the clocks of PS4 neo) that with GDDR5x it should (when clocked high-enough, which there is no reason shouldn't be able to happen) compete with 1070.Even if you figure 2048sp instead of 2560 (which I don't necessarily believe, 2560 makes a ton more sense), the perf/$ ratio could/should still be similar, if not better, for P10 vs 1070.