remistevens



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Hero MemberActivity: 629Merit: 501 Re: [ANN] [MYR] Myriad 0.11.2.0 | 0.11 Upgrade | 1st Multi-Algo | New web site May 04, 2016, 04:28:55 AM #7265



I'm a professional videographer/animator/marketer. I'm going to make a video for Myriad.



I need to start with the script writing, but it would help me to have some discussion first. I like to make sure the script is something the community can agree with.



My Questions:

1)Can someone explain how exactly the multi-algo method is able to run on multiple hashes- sorry i don't quite understand it. I see the value of being able to be mined in multiple formats, I just don't understand how its a fair competition from one algo to the next. IS there some sort of underlying algo that says that, for instance, 1MH worth of script is equal to 10MH of SHA256D or something like that? Does it fluctuate? Since they run at different speeds, how does the system keep it fair and not favor one particular algo over another?



2)Why can you send to multiple addresses for 1 wallet? I found that confusing and if it confuses me it probably confuses other newcomers. Any coin I have has 1 address per wallet and thats it. You always send things to the same address. Not saying anything is wrong with the MYR method, its actually a cool feature for keeping your payees organized, just needs to be explained up front.









For reference here are a couple videos I've done for cryptos:



https://vimeo.com/user3823797/review/87464754/171b8b97ea

https://vimeo.com/user3823797/review/163159225/5fafa01a78

https://vimeo.com/user3823797/review/87444315/a68e602db0





MYR clearly has clever development and a healthy community- both fundamentals to success. But it lacks proper presentation and marketing. Since multi-algo is a tough thing for non-coders to wrap their heads around, I think that's holding the coin back. Hey all,I'm a professional videographer/animator/marketer. I'm going to make a video for Myriad.I need to start with the script writing, but it would help me to have some discussion first. I like to make sure the script is something the community can agree with.My Questions:1)Can someone explain how exactly the multi-algo method is able to run on multiple hashes- sorry i don't quite understand it. I see the value of being able to be mined in multiple formats, I just don't understand how its a fair competition from one algo to the next. IS there some sort of underlying algo that says that, for instance, 1MH worth of script is equal to 10MH of SHA256D or something like that? Does it fluctuate? Since they run at different speeds, how does the system keep it fair and not favor one particular algo over another?2)Why can you send to multiple addresses for 1 wallet? I found that confusing and if it confuses me it probably confuses other newcomers. Any coin I have has 1 address per wallet and thats it. You always send things to the same address. Not saying anything is wrong with the MYR method, its actually a cool feature for keeping your payees organized, just needs to be explained up front.For reference here are a couple videos I've done for cryptos:MYR clearly has clever development and a healthy community- both fundamentals to success. But it lacks proper presentation and marketing. Since multi-algo is a tough thing for non-coders to wrap their heads around, I think that's holding the coin back.

jwinterm



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LegendaryActivity: 2394Merit: 1070 Re: [ANN] [MYR] Myriad 0.11.2.0 | 0.11 Upgrade | 1st Multi-Algo | New web site May 04, 2016, 05:07:55 AM #7267 Quote from: remistevens on May 04, 2016, 04:46:21 AM Also, would love to see a rich list working for MYR again, the old link seems to be dead.



Rich list is here:



For brief answers to your other questions:



1) The multi-algo method works with basically five separate hashing algorithms working independently, and whenever one of them finds a block, it is added to the blockchain. They each have a target time of 5 minutes, so on average there is one block produced about each minute. The system doesn't really keep it fair except that if it's very easy to find blocks on one algo, miners will migrate there and balance it out. This worked OK for the GPU algos, but for a while the ASIC algos had some issues with getting stuck at high difficulty; this was solved by making the two ASIC algos merge mineable, so now they have a large, steady hashrate and don't suffer from that problem.



2) The only coins that really use one address per wallet are cryptonote coins such as Monero. For Bitcoin and its derivatives it is best practice to never reuse an address, i.e., you should have about as many addresses as transactions in your wallet (considering you get change outputs). Maybe you've just been using Bitcoin clones based on an older codebase where it didn't push this best practice as hard, but if you use a modern version of Bitcoin, Litecoin, Dogecoin, etc, I think you should see the same behavior.



Please ask for clarification on anything you're unsure about or I glossed over, and I'll try to answer tomorrow or someone else will be along to help.



Look forward to seeing the video when it's ready Rich list is here: https://cryptap.us/myr/richlist/ For brief answers to your other questions:1) The multi-algo method works with basically five separate hashing algorithms working independently, and whenever one of them finds a block, it is added to the blockchain. They each have a target time of 5 minutes, so on average there is one block produced about each minute. The system doesn't really keep it fair except that if it's very easy to find blocks on one algo, miners will migrate there and balance it out. This worked OK for the GPU algos, but for a while the ASIC algos had some issues with getting stuck at high difficulty; this was solved by making the two ASIC algos merge mineable, so now they have a large, steady hashrate and don't suffer from that problem.2) The only coins that really use one address per wallet are cryptonote coins such as Monero. For Bitcoin and its derivatives it is best practice to never reuse an address, i.e., you should have about as many addresses as transactions in your wallet (considering you get change outputs). Maybe you've just been using Bitcoin clones based on an older codebase where it didn't push this best practice as hard, but if you use a modern version of Bitcoin, Litecoin, Dogecoin, etc, I think you should see the same behavior.Please ask for clarification on anything you're unsure about or I glossed over, and I'll try to answer tomorrow or someone else will be along to help.Look forward to seeing the video when it's ready

cryptapus



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Hero MemberActivity: 617Merit: 504 Re: [ANN] [MYR] Myriad 0.11.2.0 | 0.11 Upgrade | 1st Multi-Algo | New web site May 04, 2016, 11:55:59 AM #7268 Quote from: remistevens on May 04, 2016, 04:46:21 AM Also, would love to see a rich list working for MYR again, the old link seems to be dead.



Hey! Looks like professional work, we could use a pro to help talk about MYR as I think most of us are too left brained... Welcome!



Just to add and elaborate on jwinterm's comments (and if I misrepresent or miss something don't be shy, speak up):



I always liked to think of Myriad as essentially being 5 different altcoins, each with their own difficulties and mining characteristics, but the reward tokens and economy are shared among them. Each algorithm can be mined any hardware, but typically the user would mine on the algorithm that is most profitable for their specific hardware. So, for instance, scrypt asic miners can mine scrypt and they are competing with other script asic miners for blocks. Meanwhile, a skein miner is using their GPU to mine skein, but is only competing with other skein miners who are also using GPU's since no skein asic exists. So everyone has the ability to contribute to securing the chain.



There are other neat things that pop out of this, namely the resistance to a 51% attack. Now you need 51% of ALL mining algorithms (which means different TYPES of hardware). Anyone who has concerns about mining centralization should be taking a close look at this, it is my belief that this is the best solution for mining centralization today.



Other neat facts about Myriad:



hard forking another algorithm in/out is more safe, issues with an algorithm has not affect the other algorithms so the chain doesn't stop/fork (we observed that in the recent past with low hash rate on qubit, it seems to have recovered to some degree lately).



Probably most important, NO PRE MINE / NO INSTAMINE / NO "DEV FUND" / NO SCAM. Has been fairly mined for over two years now (but it's sad that even needs to be mentioned):

http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=a_massive_investigation_of_instamines_and_fastmines_for_the_top_alt_coins



One of the very few altcoins listed in the Andreas Antonopoulos book "Mastering Bitcoin":

https://github.com/bitcoinbook/bitcoinbook/blob/develop/ch09-orig.asciidoc#myriad

Hey! Looks like professional work, we could use a pro to help talk about MYR as I think most of us are too left brained... Welcome!Just to add and elaborate on jwinterm's comments (and if I misrepresent or miss something don't be shy, speak up):I always liked to think of Myriad as essentially being 5 different altcoins, each with their own difficulties and mining characteristics, but the reward tokens and economy are shared among them. Each algorithm can be mined any hardware, but typically the user would mine on the algorithm that is most profitable for their specific hardware. So, for instance, scrypt asic miners can mine scrypt and they are competing with other script asic miners for blocks. Meanwhile, a skein miner is using their GPU to mine skein, but is only competing with other skein miners who are also using GPU's since no skein asic exists. So everyone has the ability to contribute to securing the chain.There are other neat things that pop out of this, namely the resistance to a 51% attack. Now you need 51% of ALL mining algorithms (which means different TYPES of hardware). Anyone who has concerns about mining centralization should be taking a close look at this, it is my belief that this is the best solution for mining centralization today.Other neat facts about Myriad:hard forking another algorithm in/out is more safe, issues with an algorithm has not affect the other algorithms so the chain doesn't stop/fork (we observed that in the recent past with low hash rate on qubit, it seems to have recovered to some degree lately).Probably most important, NO PRE MINE / NO INSTAMINE / NO "DEV FUND" / NO SCAM. Has been fairly mined for over two years now (but it's sad that even needs to be mentioned):One of the very few altcoins listed in the Andreas Antonopoulos book "Mastering Bitcoin": website | PGP fingerprint: 692C 0756 E57D 2FA1 7601 3729 010B 717F 231C E7AA | BTC Address: 1CrYPTB1o7QWc8hXqBMP2LtAJh1VMtTFBh

MyriadAngel



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Full MemberActivity: 135Merit: 100 Re: [ANN] [MYR] Myriad 0.11.2.0 | 0.11 Upgrade | 1st Multi-Algo | New web site May 04, 2016, 11:23:01 PM #7269 It's come to my attention that we can't really produce a good video until we actually have well written explanations of multi-algo. Perhaps it would be of help to remistevens, novag, killerjoegreece, and others if I start a new bounty....



200,000MYR to whoever writes the best short, plain English explanation of multi-algo.



It is a condition that you allow your entry to be copied and used by anyone involved with MYR and they don't have to give credit. I'm looking for elegance, poignance, and poetic beauty. I want this to warm the cockles of my heart, and set my brain ablaze with excitement. Upon having read the best entry, I want to feel that I have just climbed atop Mount Olympus and finally bore witness to the miracle of the gods that is multi-algo. As the last word of the submission trails off from my stream of consciousness, my mouth should be agape, and my pupils fully dilated.

remistevens



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Hero MemberActivity: 629Merit: 501 Re: [ANN] [MYR] Myriad 0.11.2.0 | 0.11 Upgrade | 1st Multi-Algo | New web site May 06, 2016, 10:12:37 PM #7275 Thanks for the help! I think I can create a good script from my knowledge now. Of course I'll post for discussion and to iron it out.





One question though, not really important for the video I dont think, just curious. I've been into Bitcoin since 2012 so I am pretty old school admittedly, but being a non-coder the newer methods are fairly beyond me. The comment given to me about the old coins and using single addresses for all transactions as an insecure method.... I have heard about that creating a security risk, but honestly I just don't see how. I can look up some of the top addresses in btc, ltc, ftc or whatnot. Some of them have 100s or 1000s of transactions in and out all from the same address, yet I haven't heard of people losing coins beyond poor password security (and some other rare instances around poorly constructed wallet software). Bitcoin seems very secure and people with lots of money are trusting it - so what is the risk?





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Hero MemberActivity: 617Merit: 504 Re: [ANN] [MYR] Myriad 0.11.2.0 | 0.11 Upgrade | 1st Multi-Algo | New web site May 06, 2016, 10:34:28 PM #7276 Quote from: remistevens on May 06, 2016, 10:12:37 PM Thanks for the help! I think I can create a good script from my knowledge now. Of course I'll post for discussion and to iron it out.





One question though, not really important for the video I dont think, just curious. I've been into Bitcoin since 2012 so I am pretty old school admittedly, but being a non-coder the newer methods are fairly beyond me. The comment given to me about the old coins and using single addresses for all transactions as an insecure method.... I have heard about that creating a security risk, but honestly I just don't see how. I can look up some of the top addresses in btc, ltc, ftc or whatnot. Some of them have 100s or 1000s of transactions in and out all from the same address, yet I haven't heard of people losing coins beyond poor password security (and some other rare instances around poorly constructed wallet software). Bitcoin seems very secure and people with lots of money are trusting it - so what is the risk?







Well, from how I've heard it explained, it comes down to upcoming potential insecurities regarding quantum computing. An address is actually a hash of the public key, not the public key itself. Once you make a transaction you expose the public key, thus if anyone solves the quantum computing problem (and that's a pretty big "if") it might be possible to derive the private key and steal funds. We won't know when/if that happens until someone pulls it off. We probably have (at least, given the current state of quantum computing) many years until it becomes an issue.



Folks are just trying to create good practices for wallets to prep everyone. It will be a big deal (lots of news) if it's solved (or broken depending on how you look at it). Well, from how I've heard it explained, it comes down to upcoming potential insecurities regarding quantum computing. An address is actually a hash of the public key, not the public key itself. Once you make a transaction you expose the public key, thus if anyone solves the quantum computing problem (and that's a pretty big "if") it might be possible to derive the private key and steal funds. We won't know when/if that happens until someone pulls it off. We probably have (at least, given the current state of quantum computing) many years until it becomes an issue.Folks are just trying to create good practices for wallets to prep everyone. It will be a big deal (lots of news) if it's solved (or broken depending on how you look at it). website | PGP fingerprint: 692C 0756 E57D 2FA1 7601 3729 010B 717F 231C E7AA | BTC Address: 1CrYPTB1o7QWc8hXqBMP2LtAJh1VMtTFBh

jwinterm



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LegendaryActivity: 2394Merit: 1070 Re: [ANN] [MYR] Myriad 0.11.2.0 | 0.11 Upgrade | 1st Multi-Algo | New web site May 06, 2016, 10:55:00 PM #7277 To add onto what cryptapus said, at this point I would say it's less of a security risk than it is a privacy issue. Yes, in the future there could be some way to back calculate the private key from the public address, but at the moment the reason it is recommended is because if you never reuse an address, then you essentially get all of the benefits of using stealth addresses (which existed in a previous version of myriad, now removed I think, but still in Vertcoin and all cryptonote coins use them as part of their privacy features).

remistevens



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Hero MemberActivity: 629Merit: 501 Re: [ANN] [MYR] Myriad 0.11.2.0 | 0.11 Upgrade | 1st Multi-Algo | New web site May 07, 2016, 01:58:43 AM #7279 Quote from: cryptapus on May 06, 2016, 10:34:28 PM Quote from: remistevens on May 06, 2016, 10:12:37 PM Thanks for the help! I think I can create a good script from my knowledge now. Of course I'll post for discussion and to iron it out.





One question though, not really important for the video I dont think, just curious. I've been into Bitcoin since 2012 so I am pretty old school admittedly, but being a non-coder the newer methods are fairly beyond me. The comment given to me about the old coins and using single addresses for all transactions as an insecure method.... I have heard about that creating a security risk, but honestly I just don't see how. I can look up some of the top addresses in btc, ltc, ftc or whatnot. Some of them have 100s or 1000s of transactions in and out all from the same address, yet I haven't heard of people losing coins beyond poor password security (and some other rare instances around poorly constructed wallet software). Bitcoin seems very secure and people with lots of money are trusting it - so what is the risk?







Well, from how I've heard it explained, it comes down to upcoming potential insecurities regarding quantum computing. An address is actually a hash of the public key, not the public key itself. Once you make a transaction you expose the public key, thus if anyone solves the quantum computing problem (and that's a pretty big "if") it might be possible to derive the private key and steal funds. We won't know when/if that happens until someone pulls it off. We probably have (at least, given the current state of quantum computing) many years until it becomes an issue.



Folks are just trying to create good practices for wallets to prep everyone. It will be a big deal (lots of news) if it's solved (or broken depending on how you look at it).

Well, from how I've heard it explained, it comes down to upcoming potential insecurities regarding quantum computing. An address is actually a hash of the public key, not the public key itself. Once you make a transaction you expose the public key, thus if anyone solves the quantum computing problem (and that's a pretty big "if") it might be possible to derive the private key and steal funds. We won't know when/if that happens until someone pulls it off. We probably have (at least, given the current state of quantum computing) many years until it becomes an issue.Folks are just trying to create good practices for wallets to prep everyone. It will be a big deal (lots of news) if it's solved (or broken depending on how you look at it).

Ah, thanks so much. That makes a lot of sense. Puts 2 things together I've been wondering about for a while. I knew a transaction would expose your public key AND I knew the bitcoin crowd have said defense against quantum computing was possible- but as of right now most people aren't prepared.



But I thought the inherent exposure risk was from sending out from your wallet only- whereas in receiving nothing is exposed. Is there something riskier youve heard around having multiple transactions into a wallet vs a single transaction in? Ah, thanks so much. That makes a lot of sense. Puts 2 things together I've been wondering about for a while. I knew a transaction would expose your public key AND I knew the bitcoin crowd have said defense against quantum computing was possible- but as of right now most people aren't prepared.But I thought the inherent exposure risk was from sending out from your wallet only- whereas in receiving nothing is exposed. Is there something riskier youve heard around having multiple transactions into a wallet vs a single transaction in?