Posted: 1/23/2010 9:54:09 PM EDT [Last Edit: 1/24/2010 5:06:08 PM EDT by popnfresh]





As an addition to the argument against the "Don't tumble live ammo" internet myth, I have conducted a somewhat more extreme version of a previous "Tumbler of truth" experiment.

I have been tumbling a few loaded .223s prior to the previous thread for the sake of my own personal curiosity. The previous thread got me interested in a larger group of powder so I decided to use every powder I have.

I loaded them into primed .40 cases and seated and crimped my cast lead bullets to .40S&W OAL and scribed the powder type into the lead.



The .223s already had accumulated 95 hours in the tumbler so now with the additional 205 hours they have a total of 300 hours. I was aiming for 200 hours but it happened to end up at 205

because during the week I ran it from the time I got home from work until I left for work the next morning. I would have had to shut it off in the middle of the night to get an even 200.



All of the magnification levels are 45x and 75x accept for the one 1680 which is 150x. Most of the powder is too 3 dimensional to view over 75x; only one small area will focus at a time

so for the sake of the image I stayed at the lower magnification levels. I did the 1680 first and was still getting the hang of taking picture through the microscope and didn't yet have a standard

of the best method so the one 150x slipped through.



I tried to take some pictures of the walnut media, fresh and used, but it was to tall to get decent sized area into focus even at 45x.There was a bit more smoothness to the used from what I could see.





The tumbler I bought in '98 now has many many hours of tumbling goodness. I use 12/20 mesh walnut media.













This is how I took the pictures. An old Japanese student type microscope with 45x, 75x, 150x, 600x and 1125x magnification.

The camera is a Casio EX-Z750 and a Fenix L1D for overhead lighting.













This is the brass the test rounds tumbled with. About 200-300 .40S&Ws and a few .223s.













Here are the cases in which the powder was tumbled, I marked the lead for powder I.D., the .223 has the 2230 and it has been going for an additional 95 hours.











The First two images of each four image set will be be a fresh sample straight from the container, they will be first at 45x the at 75x, the next two images will be a sample from the tumbled cartridge again at 45x first and then 75x





Winchester 748 @ 45x magnification





Winchester 748 @ 75x magnification



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Winchester 748 @ 45x magnification 205 hours in tumbler





Winchester 748 @ 75x magnification 205 hours in tumbler



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Unique @ 45x magnification





Unique @ 75x magnification



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Unique @ 45x magnification 205 hours in tumbler





Unique @ 75x magnification 205 hours in tumbler



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Power Pistol @ 45x magnification





Power Pistol @ 75x magnification



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Power Pistol @ 45x magnification 205 hours in tumbler





Power Pistol @ 75x magnification 205 hours in tumbler



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AA No.7 @ 45x magnification





AA No.7 @ 75x magnification



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AA No.7 @ 45x magnification 205 hours in tumbler





AA No.7 @ 75x magnification 205 hours in tumbler



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FFFg @ 45x magnification





FFFg @ 75x magnification



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FFFg @ 45x magnification 205 hours in tumbler





FFFg @ 75x magnification 205 hours in tumbler



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Bullseye @ 45x magnification





Bullseye @ 75x magnification



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Bullseye @ 45x magnification 205 hours in tumbler





Bullseye @ 75x magnification 205 hours in tumbler



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1680 @ 45x magnification





1680 @ 75x magnification



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1680 @ 45x magnification 205 hours in tumbler





1680 @ 150x magnification 205 hours in tumbler



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2230 @ 45x magnification





2230 @ 75x magnification



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2230 @ 45x magnification 300 hours in tumbler





2230 @ 75x magnification 300 hours in tumbler







From what I can see, there is no notable change to the powders, no breakdown, no coatings coming off, I see nothing that would tell me the powder has changed. I even noticed some sharp spurs and loops of the silver substance that I would have thought would break off if the tumbling was so damaging. Also there was no change to the OAL of the cartridges, the rifle cartridges were not crimped, the lead have a very slight crimp.





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Here is the link in GD with more pictures and discussion



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ETA: FOR PRIMER PHOTOS



Cannot really see much, 45x is too much magnification for such a large item.



SIDE by SIDE you can see the dirty one on the left where it pressed against the bottom of the primer pocket.





TUMBLED Wolf Small Pistol





New Wolf Small Pistol











***UPDATE***



I had two extra .223s with 300 hours in the tumbler and two extra .40S&W that spent 205 hours in the tumbler. These were proper loading so just to check for pressure signs I decided to fire them. For the sake of safety in case there was an explosion(the lead .40s were being fired through my factory Glock27 ), I fired them into the



In the photo from left to right is untumbled .40 then two .40s that spent 205 in the tumbler then two .223 that spent 300 in the tumbler and then two untumbled .223s



Click for full size.







Here is a cross post in case you don't make it to GDAs an addition to the argument against the "Don't tumble live ammo" internet myth, I have conducted a somewhat more extreme version of a previous "Tumbler of truth" experiment.I have been tumbling a few loaded .223s prior to the previous thread for the sake of my own personal curiosity. The previous thread got me interested in a larger group of powder so I decided to use every powder I have.I loaded them into primed .40 cases and seated and crimped my cast lead bullets to .40S&W OAL and scribed the powder type into the lead.The .223s already had accumulated 95 hours in the tumbler so now with the additional 205 hours they have a total of 300 hours. I was aiming for 200 hours but it happened to end up at 205because during the week I ran it from the time I got home from work until I left for work the next morning. I would have had to shut it off in the middle of the night to get an even 200.All of the magnification levels are 45x and 75x accept for the one 1680 which is 150x. Most of the powder is too 3 dimensional to view over 75x; only one small area will focus at a timeso for the sake of the image I stayed at the lower magnification levels. I did the 1680 first and was still getting the hang of taking picture through the microscope and didn't yet have a standardof the best method so the one 150x slipped through.I tried to take some pictures of the walnut media, fresh and used, but it was to tall to get decent sized area into focus even at 45x.There was a bit more smoothness to the used from what I could see.The tumbler I bought in '98 now has many many hours of tumbling goodness. I use 12/20 mesh walnut media.This is how I took the pictures. An old Japanese student type microscope with 45x, 75x, 150x, 600x and 1125x magnification.The camera is a Casio EX-Z750 and a Fenix L1D for overhead lighting.This is the brass the test rounds tumbled with. About 200-300 .40S&Ws and a few .223s.Here are the cases in which the powder was tumbled, I marked the lead for powder I.D., the .223 has the 2230 and it has been going for an additional 95 hours.––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––­–––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––­–––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––­–––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––­–––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––­–––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––­–––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––­–––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––­–––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––­–––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––­–––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––­–––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––­–––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––­–––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––­–––––––––––-––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––­–––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––­–––––––––––-––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––­–––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––­–––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––­–––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––­–––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––­–––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––­–––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––­–––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––­–––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––­–––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––­–––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––­–––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––­–––––––––––From what I can see, there is no notable change to the powders, no breakdown, no coatings coming off, I see nothing that would tell me the powder has changed. I even noticed some sharp spurs and loops of the silver substance that I would have thought would break off if the tumbling was so damaging. Also there was no change to the OAL of the cartridges, the rifle cartridges were not crimped, the lead have a very slight crimp.ETA: FOR PRIMER PHOTOSCannot really see much, 45x is too much magnification for such a large item.SIDE by SIDE you can see the dirty one on the left where it pressed against the bottom of the primer pocket.TUMBLED Wolf Small PistolNew Wolf Small PistolI had two extra .223s with 300 hours in the tumbler and two extra .40S&W that spent 205 hours in the tumbler. These were proper loading so just to check for pressure signs I decided to fire them. For the sake of safety in case there was an explosion(the lead .40s were being fired through my factory Glock27), I fired them into the BOX O' SILENCE . There was no discernible difference in feel or sound and by the looks of the primers there was no excessive pressure.In the photo from left to right is untumbled .40 then two .40s that spent 205 in the tumbler then two .223 that spent 300 in the tumbler and then two untumbled .223sClick for full size.