Justice in a modern, ostensibly civilized society should be an expectation, not a surprise. But our nation’s African American community has learned not to expect justice to be served when police violence is involved. Time and time again, the criminal justice system has shown us that there is little to no consequence for the police who have harmed African Americans unnecessarily or excessively. The recourse for the African American community has been protest: through speech, in art, and in action. Black people in America have learned that to get some modicum of justice in the courtroom, they must take their dissatisfaction to the streets.

Chicago rapper Vic Mensa is intimately familiar with this concept. He is as known for his political awareness and outspokenness as he is for his music. [He’s currently embroiled in controversy for making comments critical of XXXTentacion’s alleged history of violence against women, but he declined to speak on the issue for this interview.] That’s why it wasn’t surprising to see him pop up on Snapchat in November 2015 marching alongside community activists and organizers in protest of the police shooting of 17-year-old Laquan McDonald a year prior. Mensa, along with the other protesters, expressed a justified rage for an act of police violence and an apparent coverup of police misconduct; hours earlier, the Chicago Police Department officer in question, Jason Van Dyke, had been charged with first-degree murder. The CPD then reluctantly released dashcam footage of Van Dyke’s fatal shooting of McDonald 16 times.

In June 2016, an outraged and inspired Mensa dropped his There’s Alot Going On EP, featuring the jarring anthem “16 Shots.” The song and its chilling video were an indictment of police violence against his community and a rallying cry for those who felt the same way he did. But even as political pressure on Chicago’s local government and police department mounted, activists and community members were energized but not necessarily optimistic about what would be the final outcome in the case.

The fallout from the city’s mishandling of the McDonald incident lead to years of tumult and a massive political shakeup with implications that are still being felt. Van Dyke faced trial beginning on Sept. 17 of this year and was found guilty of second-degree murder and 16 counts of aggravated battery on Oct. 5. This was an unexpected turn of events. Not only was Van Dyke the first police officer in Chicago to be charged with murder and found guilty for an on-duty shooting in over 50 years, but on a national level, it is extremely rare that police officers are ever convicted or even charged in most cases. According to Mapping Police Violence’s 2017 Police Violence Report 1,147 people were killed by police in 2017. Out of these instances, only 13 officers (1%) were ever charged with a crime.

When the guilty verdict was announced on October 5, Vic Mensa wasn’t on the streets of Chicago like he had been three years ago. He was in South Korea on tour with his Roc Nation labelmate Jay Park. He got the news via a Chicago-based group chat after he left a recording session. Upon returning to the United States, Vic Mensa spoke to Pitchfork to discuss activism, the case, and what the verdict means for Chicago and the issue of police violence.

Pitchfork: When you were in those protests back in 2015, could you have imagined that the trial would have gone the way that it did?

Vic Mensa: I could have never, ever imagined that Jason Van Dyke would be convicted. So that’s why this is so absolutely powerful. It’s because this can set a whole new precedent for the plight of the black man in America, to see the racist arm of this oppression that steps on our neck constantly actually held accountable. I never thought it could happen, you know? Because it never happens. Honestly, I didn’t have much hope. With all of these egregiously guilty police officers that have been acquitted, I just didn’t think Van Dyke would be convicted, and if he was, I thought it would be, like, manslaughter, or a slap on the wrist. But man, it happened. And I think it was a citywide scandal and a big cover-up. I guess I think that influenced it and the increased pressure thanks to the activists and organizers. We applied the pressure. Real talk.