The following is a conversation with Mr. Ron Supinski of the Public Information Department of the San Francisco Federal Reserve Bank. This is an account of that conversation. CALLER - Mr. Supinski, does my country own the Federal Reserve System? MR. SUPINSKI - We are an agency of the government. CALLER - That's not my question. Is it owned by my country? MR. SUPINSKI - It is an agency of the government created by congress. CALLER - Is the Federal Reserve a Corporation? MR. SUPINSKI - Yes CALLER - Does my government own any of the stock in the Federal Reserve? MR. SUPINSKI - No, it is owned by the member banks. CALLER - Are the member banks private corporations? MR. SUPINSKI - Yes CALLER - Are Federal Reserve Notes backed by anything? MR. SUPINSKI-Yes, by the assets of the Federal Reserve but, primarily by the power of congress to lay tax on the people. CALLER - Did you say, by the power to collect taxes is what backs Federal Reserve Notes? MR. SUPINSKI - Yes CALLER - What are the total assets of the Federal Reserve? MR. SUPINSKI - The San Francisco Bank has $36 Billion in assets. CALLER - What are these assets composed of? MR. SUPINSKI - Gold, the Federal Reserve Bank itself and government securities. CALLER - What value does the Federal Reserve Bank carry gold per oz. on their books? MR. SUPINSKI - I don't have that information but the San Francisco Bank has $1.6 billion in gold. CALLER - Are you saying the Federal Reserve Bank of San Francisco has $1.6 billion in gold, the bank itself and the balance of the assets is government securities? MR. SUPINSKI - Yes. CALLER - Where does the Federal Reserve get Federal Reserve Notes from? MR. SUPINSKI - They are authorized by the Treasury. CALLER - How much does the Federal Reserve pay for a $10 Federal Reserve Note? MR. SUPINSKI - Fifty to seventy cents. CALLER - How much do they pay for a $100.00 Federal Reserve Note? MR. SUPINSKI - The same fifty to seventy cents. CALLER - To pay only fifty cents for a $100.00 is a tremendous gain, isn't it? MR. SUPINSKI - Yes CALLER - According to the US Treasury, the Federal Reserve pays $20.60 per 1,000 denomination or a little over two cents for a $100.00 bill, is that correct? MR. SUPINSKI - That is probably close. CALLER - Doesn't the Federal Reserve use the Federal Reserve Notes that cost about two cents each to purchase US Bonds from the government? MR. SUPINSKI - Yes, but there is more to it than that. CALLER - Basically, that is what happens? MR. SUPINSKI - Yes, basically you are correct. CALLER - How many Federal Reserve Notes are in circulation? MR. SUPINSKI - $263 billion and we can only account for a small percentage. CALLER - Where did they go? MR. SUPINSKI - Peoples mattress, buried in their back yards and illegal drug money. CALLER - Since the debt is payable in Federal Reserve Notes, how can the $4 trillion national debt be paid-off with the total Federal Reserve Notes in circulation? MR. SUPINSKI - I don't know. CALLER - If the Federal Government would collect every Federal Reserve Note in circulation would it be mathematically possible to pay the $4 trillion national debt? MR. SUPINSKI - No CALLER - Am I correct when I say, $1 deposited in a member bank $8 can be lent out through Fractional Reserve Policy? MR. SUPINSKI - About $7. CALLER - Correct me if I am wrong but, $7 of additional Federal Reserve Notes were never put in circulation. But, for lack of better words were "created out of thin air " in the form of credits and the two cents per denomination were not paid either. In other words, the Federal Reserve Notes were not physically printed but, in reality were created by a journal entry and lent at interest. Is that correct? MR. SUPINSKI - Yes CALLER - Is that the reason there are only $263 billion Federal Reserve Notes in circulation? MR. SUPINSKI - That is part of the reason. CALLER - Am I mistaking that when the Federal Reserve Act was passed (on Christmas Eve) in 1913, it transferred the power to coin and issue our nation's money and to regulate the value thereof from Congress to a Private corporation. And my country now borrows what should be our own money from the Federal Reserve (a private corporation) plus interest. Is that correct and the debt can never be paid off under the current money system of country? MR. SUPINSKI - Basically, yes. CALLER - I smell a rat, do you? MR. SUPINSKI - I am sorry, I can't answer that, I work here. CALLER - Has the Federal Reserve ever been independently audited? MR. SUPINSKI - We are audited. CALLER - Why is there a current House Resolution 1486 calling for a complete audit of the Federal Reserve by the GAO and why is the Federal Reserve resisting? MR. SUPINSKI - I don't know. CALLER - Does the Federal Reserve regulate the value of Federal Reserve Notes and interest rates? MR. SUPINSKI - Yes CALLER - Explain how the Federal Reserve System can be Constitutional if, only the Congress of the US, which comprises of the Senate and the House of representatives has the power to coin and issue our money supply and regulate the value thereof? [Article 1 Section 1 and Section 8] Nowhere, in the Constitution does it give Congress the power or authority to transfer any powers granted under the Constitution to a private corporation or, does it? MR. SUPINSKI - I am not an expert on constitutional law. I can refer you to our legal department. CALLER - I can tell you I have read the Constitution. It does NOT provide that any power granted can be transferred to a private corporation. Doesn't it specifically state, all other powers not granted are reserved to the States and to the citizens? Does that mean to a private corporation? MR. SUPINSKI - I don't think so, but we were created by Congress. CALLER - Would you agree it is our country and it should be our money as provided by our Constitution? MR. SUPINSKI - I understand what you are saying. CALLER - Why should we borrow our own money from a private consortium of bankers? Isn't this why we had a revolution, created a separate sovereign nation and a Bill of Rights? MR. SUPINSKI - (Declined to answer). CALLER - Has the Federal Reserve ever been declared constitutional by the Supreme Court? MR. SUPINSKI - I believe there has been court cases on the matter. CALLER - Have there been Supreme Court Cases? MR. SUPINSKI - I think so, but I am not sure. CALLER - Didn't the Supreme Court declare unanimously in A.L.A. Schechter Poultry Corp. vs. US and Carter vs. Carter Coal Co. the corporative-state arrangement an unconstitutional delegation of legislative power? ["The power conferred is the power to regulate. This is legislative delegation in its most obnoxious form; for it is not even delegation to an official or an official body, presumptively disinterested, but to private persons." Carter vs. Carter Coal Co...] MR. SUPINSKI - I don't know, I can refer you to our legal department. CALLER - Isn't the current money system a house of cards that must fall because, the debt can mathematically never be paid-off? MR. SUPINSKI - It appears that way. I can tell you have been looking into this matter and are very knowledgeable. However, we do have a solution. CALLER - What is the solution? MR. SUPINSKI - The Debit Card. CALLER - Do you mean under the EFT Act (Electronic Funds Transfer)? Isn't that very frightening, when one considers the capabilities of computers? It would provide the government and all it's agencies, including the Federal Reserve such information as: You went to the gas station @ 2:30 and bought $10.00 of unleaded gas @ $1.41 per gallon and then you went to the grocery store @ 2:58 and bought bread, lunch meat and milk for $12.32 and then went to the drug store @ 3:30 and bought cold medicine for $5.62. In other words, they would know where we go, when we went, how much we paid, how much the merchant paid and how much profit he made. Under the EFT they will literally know everything about us. Isn't that kind of scary? MR. SUPINSKI - Yes, it makes you wonder. CALLER - I smell a GIANT RAT that has overthrown my constitution. Aren't we paying tribute in the form of income taxes to a consortium of private bankers? MR. SUPINSKI - I can't call it tribute, it is interest. CALLER - Haven't all elected officials taken an oath of office to preserve and defend the Constitution from enemies both foreign and domestic? Isn't the Federal Reserve a domestic enemy? MR. SUPINSKI - I can't say that. CALLER - Our elected officials and members of the Federal Reserve are guilty of aiding and abetting the overthrowing of my Constitution and that is treason. Isn't the punishment of treason death? MR. SUPINSKI - I believe so. CALLER - Thank you for your time and information and if I may say so, I think you should take the necessary steps to protect you and your family and withdraw your money from the banks before the collapse, I am. MR. SUPINSKI - It doesn't look good. CALLER - May God have mercy on the souls who are behind this unconstitutional and criminal act called the Federal Reserve. When the ALMIGHTY MASS awakens to this giant hoax, they will not take it with a grain of salt. It has been a pleasure talking to you and I thank you for your time. I hope you will take my advice before it does collapse. MR. SUPINSKI - Unfortunately, it does not look good. CALLER - Have a good day and thanks for your time. MR. SUPINSKI - Thanks for calling. If the reader has any doubts to the validity of this conversation, call your nearest Federal Reserve Bank, YOU KNOW THE QUESTIONS TO ASK! You won't find them listed under the Federal Government. They are in the white pages, along with Federal Express, Federal Deposit Insurance Corp. (FDIC), and any other business. Find out for yourself if all this is true. And then, go to your local law library and look up the case of Lewis vs. US, case #80-5905, 9th Circuit, June 24, 1982. It reads in part: "Examining the organization and function of the Federal Reserve Banks and applying the relevant factors, we conclude that the federal reserve are NOT federal instrumentality's . . but are independent and privately owned and controlled corporations - federal reserve banks are listed neither as "wholly-owned' government corporations [under 31 USC Section 846] nor as 'mixed ownership' corporations [under 31 USC Section 856] . . . 28 USC Sections 1346(b), 2671. ' Federal agency' is defined as: the executive departments, the military departments, independent establishments of the United States, and corporations acting primarily as instrumentality's of the United States, but does not include any contractors with the United States . . . There are no sharp criteria for determining whether an entity is a federal agency within the meaning of the Act, but the critical factor is the existence of the federal government control over the 'detailed physical performance' and 'day to day operations' of that entity. Other factors courts have considered include whether the entity is an independent corporation . . . whether the government is involved in the entity's finances, . . . and whether the mission of the entity furthers the policy of the United States . . . Examining the organization and function of the Federal Reserve Banks, and applying the relevant factors, we conclude that the Reserve Banks are not federal instrumentalities ... It is evident from the legislative history of the Federal Reserve Act that Congress did not intend to give the federal government direction over the daily operation of the Reserve Banks . . . The fact that the Federal Reserve Board regulates the Reserve Banks does not make them federal agencies under the Act . . . Unlike typical federal agencies, each bank is empowered to hire and fire employees at will. Bank employees do not participate in the Civil Service Retirement System. They are covered by worker's compensation insurance, purchased by the Bank, rather than the Federal Employees Compensation Act. Employees traveling on Bank business are not subject to federal travel regulations and do not receive government employee discounts on lodging and services . . . Finally, the Banks are empowered to sue and be sued in their own name. 12 USC Section 341. They carry their own liability insurance and typically process and handle their own claims . . ." According to the Federal Reserve Bank of Philadelphia, "When the Federal Reserve was created, its stock was sold to the member banks." ("The Hats The Federal Reserve Wears," published by the Federal Reserve Bank of Philadelphia). The original Stockholders of the Federal Reserve Banks in 1913 were the Rockefeller's, JP Morgan, Rothschild's, Lazard Freres, Schoellkopf, Kuhn-Loeb, Warburgs, Lehman Brothers and Goldman Sachs. The MONEYCHANGERS wanted to be insured they had a monopoly over our money supply, so Congress passed into law Title 12, Section 284 of the United States Code. Section 284 specifically states, "NO STOCK ALLOWED TO THE US" * Monopoly - "A privilege or peculiar advantage vested in one or more persons or companies, consisting in the exclusive right [or power] to carry on a particular business or trade, manufacture a particular article, or control the sale of the whole supply of a particular commodity, A form of market structure in which only a few firms dominate the total sales of a product or service. 'Monopoly,' as prohibited by Section 2 of the Sherman Antitrust Act, has two elements: possession of a monopoly power in relevant market and willful acquisition or maintenance of that power, as distinguished from growth or development as a consequence of a superior power, business acumen, or historical product. A monopoly condemned by the Sherman Act is the power to fix prices, or exclude competition, coupled with policies designed to use and preserve that power." (Black's Law Dictionary, 6th Edition) The Federal Reserve Act goes one step farther, "No Senator or Representative in Congress shall be a member of the Federal Reserve Board or an officer or director of a Federal Reserve Bank." They didn't want We The People to have any say in the operation of their monopoly through our elected officials. ___ Copyright Notice: All rights reserved re: common-law copyright of trade-name/trade-mark, DANIEL DOYLE BENHAM©-as well as any and all derivatives and variations in the spelling of said trade-name/trade-mark-Copyright© 1988 by Daniel Doyle Benham. Record Owner: Daniel Doyle Benham, Autograph Common Law Copyright© 1988. Comment From Dave Williams

Williams.Dave@orbital.com

9-17-2 Jeff, I would like to comment on the attached article posted to your website. I am an avid reader of your site and think that some of the articles you have posted have some merit behind them. Others are written and posted by fear-mongers who offer no solutions to the problems they encounter. This one, however, seems to at least be taking a stand to introduce legislation to turn the tide on the greedy, robber barons of our time. But I would like to put to rest something that has been commented for a long time in various postings to your website that has had me pegged for some time and has been completely untrue. Whenever anyone talks about the Constitutional rights of Congress to coin money and regulate the value thereof, they always state that the Federal Reserve Banks (not being an actual part of the government) have not been duly authorized to perform these functions and the sole right must remain with Congress. They site the Constitution itself (Article I, Section 8, paragraph 5) as being the law of the land (which it duly is) for the legality of the Federal Reserve Banking system. For the life of me, however, it seems that they quit reading at this point, because the 18th and final paragraph of Section 8 states: "To make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the foregoing powers and all other powers vested by this Constitution in the government of the United States, or in any department or officer thereof." Now, I'm not a Constitutional scholar, but I can read plain English. This paragraph clearly shows how farsighted the Constitutional framers were in the fact that they new that the Constitution, while a great start to this republic, was not the answer for every legality to come up in the future. This paragraph clearly shows also, that the Congress had the right to legislate the power for coining money and its denominatory value to other persons or businesses that were capable of doing so by "carrying into execution the foregoing powers", i.e. - the right to coin money and its value. This final paragraph also means not just the entire Section 8, but any part of the Constitution pertaining to the making of laws vested in the power of these United States by the Constitution. Why is it nobody ever comments on this paragraph? Could it be that they just want to sow fear and hatred in their fellow Americans for the government, all the while knowing they are wrong? Or are they just plain ignorant and believe what they want to? I for one, feel the government is doing a pretty good job of bringing a total disenchantment between them and the people of this country. Why do think almost half the voting population doesn't vote? I can tell you. They don't like who they are voting for in either party! Again, I'll state for the record, I'm not a Constitutional scholar, but a Design Engineer and while not presuming that I know more than our duly appointed Congressional Members, I do know from where right and wrong is and where the laws currently stand on this. Which is to say once and for all, that the Federal Reserve Banking System is completely lawful! Now, do I agree with and like the current system? NO!! But do we have to accept that it is and has been the law since its enactment? YES! Now, I'm not going to split hairs with anyone over whether or not it was duly ratified by the 2/3rds margin of each states' legislative group, but until the people of this country wake up and take back their constitutional rights', as in "We the people, by the people" we cannot expect these changes to be made on our behalf. At least the esteemed Rep Ron Paul is on the right track in trying to get the laws changed legally. Now, whether he will suceed or not will depend on the people of this country. If we remain asleep at the wheel, so to say, then we shall not. There has to be a common goal and enough backing to make this happen! Wake up America! Dave Williams a