aka fuck gengar





dumb lucky play I was able to remove Klefki from the equation before it could setup any hazards and later eliminate the bothersome Grass Arceus, ending the game with a very commanding margin.







Manaphy vs aim : Aim brings a HP Fire Mega Gengar that easily removes Manaphy's Skarmory and leaves him completely open to both Double Dance Groudon and Ekiller. Hack vs MM2 : (not to toot my own horn, I signed up for SPL to gather replays specifically for this kind of discussion so I'm going to cite my games a lot) I was very, very weak to Klefki and risked going into a hard game where I'd have to fight a Grass Arceus with a field full of hazards. However, through alucky play I was able to remove Klefki from the equation before it could setup any hazards and later eliminate the bothersome Grass Arceus, ending the game with a very commanding margin. Kebabe vs MM2 : This game featured a previously obscure Shadow Tag user that has quickly climbed to notoriety, Gothitelle, to trap and remove Kebabe's support Arceus early on so that I could use Mega Kangaskhan to maintain full control of the game. Sweep vs MM2 : This game uses the final and sorely underrated Shadow Tag abuser, Wobbuffet, to force the setup of my Geomancy Xerneas and have it in the position to sweep past the remaining 5 Pokemon on Sweep's team and win the game. Unfortunately, a haxy Moonblast drop on my turn of setup prevented the victory forcing me to hax the win back later on. All the same, it still shows just how damning Wobbuffet can be despite the more limited teambuilding options it has in comparison to the other Shadow Tag abusers. Click to expand...

Uncompetitive game aspects (or strategies) are those that take away autonomy (control of the game's events), take it out of the hand's of player's decisions-- and do so to a degree that can be considered uncompetitive. Click to expand...

With the Grand Slam approaching, I'd like to take some time to sit back and reflect upon the current state of the Ubers metagame. Take note of the use of the word metagame; as of last generation with the clause testing in BW2, Ubers became more than just ban list. Of course, the ulterior motives of the testing were mainly to revitalize the relatively stagnant ladder and introduce users to the tier that had formed. After all, all non-OU tiers are inherently given the task of tier exposure. However, following suit, it created a metagame and changed the definition of Ubers. Instead of simply being a ban list, Ubers became, quoting bojangles, "the metagame with the least amount of bans possible."The goal of this post is to attempt to prove that the current state of the Ubers metagame is uncompetitive and to provide solutions if deemed so as well by the community. It is practical to agree that all tiers in official tournaments should be competitive. A precedent of this is the removal of Challenge Cup from the Frontier. Rationality dictates that if one is going to win a prominent tournament, it should be as skill based as possible. Thus, if Ubers is deemed uncompetitive, it should either:a.) be removed from all official tournaments it is in, namely SPL and Grand Slamorb.) be fixed in a way that doesn't threaten the integrity of the tier.Option a.) is a simple fix; however, it would be to the dismay of many Ubers players, including myself, and would remove a timeless SPL standard. I mean, let's be real: seeing Ubers in SPL is pretty unique as it has behemoths like Arceus and Kyogre duking it out. It's interesting and far different from any other tier in the generation. Additionally, it is far more sensible to fix the tier, if possible and deemed necessary, rather than just remove it from tournaments. Even though many not think it, the ladder is still existent and said metagame would still be flawed. Subforum tournaments also hold some merit in the tournament wins spreadsheet McMeghan maintains, and we wouldn't want to see Eo's name rise higher in the ranks due to his unfathomable luck via team matchup. Thus, I will be focusing on option b.).Before I get to the real meat of this, I believe that am a qualified enough Ubers player to be creating this thread. I was the most expensive (to the dismay of my manager) Ubers player in SPL5 and made several of the teams used in it. I began playing the tier in BW and have been actively involved in it for almost two years, playing it extensively. I do not wish to have my thread discredited because of perceptions that I am not actively involved in the tier and do not know the metagame. In fact, many others of the top Ubers players such as Melee Mewtwo Blim , and PROBLEMS have recognized problems with the XY Ubers metagame as well that were unseen in past generations. This is not an individual cry for help.Now, the real doozy. What is so uncompetitive about Ubers? What makes it, in my opinion ,an unhealthy metagame to put in official tournaments? Historically, Ubers has surprisingly been a very balanced metagame. By many, DPP and BW Ubers are seen as two of the most fun tiers in their individual generations as they offer a wide variety of Pokemon and team styles. Whether it be from luck, creativity, of some actual intelligence displayed by GameFreak, Ubers has always settled in the past to be balanced while still allowing for creativity with no interference. However, this generation has displayed characteristics thus far which have not been indicative of Ubers past, namely far more centralization and increased emphasis on team matchup.Centralization isn't particularly a bad thing. GSC OU has 3-5 standard builds and small permutations as teams, but is regarded as one of the most skill reliant metagames in Smogon history. Though, in the case of XY Ubers, centralization is mainly a symptom of team matchup. I won't bother delving into the centralization aspect as it isn't relevant to uncompetitiveness; it has simply resulted from the problem at hand.The introduction of Mega Gengar into the Ubers environment has, to put it lightly, thrown the tier into disarray. Previously, the only usable Shadow Tag Pokemon in the tier were Wobbuffet and Gothitelle. The former was a viable option on Hyper Offensive teams, typically having a set-up sweeper such as SD Rayquaza, but it was a niche Pokemon and wasn't very splashable since you had to teambuild with it in mind. Gothitelle was, for the most part, hardly viable last generation. The introduction of Mega Gengar brought forth a Pokemon which had almost everything in its kit that it needed to be effective: speed and power (it has more SpA than Mewtwo and the same base speed), a good typing to use the ability (Ghost / Poison has unique resistances and the ground immunity before the Mega Evolution is very helpful) and an excellent movepool.In a singles environment with team preview, Gengar can plan which Pokemon it needed to take out with Destiny Bond to most benefit the team and put its plan in action. Shadow Tag itself is an intrinsically broken ability the Pokemon which uses it gains all momentum and can dictate the pace of the game. At worst, Gengar can typically one for one vs any team and attempt to knock out a key player in order for a teammate to sweep.I've waited to post this thread for a few reasons. First, I was curious if Mega Gengar was truly the problem instead of lack of preparation. The most popular answer for Mega Gengar throughout the short history of the tier has been Pursuit Mega Scizor. However, this is hardly an adequate answer. Pursuit / Bullet Punch is a 50/50: if the Gengar switches while you Bullet Punch it when it's low HP, you be forced to face its wrath later in the game. If you Pursuit it and it Destiny Bonds, you have just lost your Scizor which is typically a team's main answer to ExtremeKiller Arceus, Xerneas, and also a team's Defog Pokemon. Shed Shell Blissey on stall gained notoriety halfway through SPL to prevent Gengar from damaging the stall core which is unique, but Shed Shell cannot be applied to a Pokemon which is practically a necessity on every team as a glue, Arceus. Even if you can somehow justify Arceus-Ghost + Shed Shell Blissey, there are still 4 other Pokemon and I assure you that you cannot make an adequate team which 5 Shed Shell Pokemon, or without a Pokemon which is prone to Mega Gengar. Other Pokemon that rose in popularity to help against Gengar were Pursuit Chople Tyranitar and Pursuit Aegislash (seems odd, but the standard Gengar ran no Shadow Ball at the time). However, not only the metagame adapted: Gengar did too. It began running a few different moves from its standard set to maintain its power in the face of teams beginning to try and prepare it for it: Will-o-Wisp to nail many of the Pursuiters, Shadow Ball for Aegislash and a STAB, Substitute to scout the switch to a Tyranitar, and Hidden Power Fire to stop Scizor have all revealed themselves. Gengar is a somewhat versatile Pokemon, and the situations it creates make a metagame mainly revolving around team matchup. If the Gengar can trap your Pokemon that stops its partner from sweeping, win a 50/50, pull a good double switch, etc. you are probably going to lose. Gengar itself is far more dangerous and potent than its "checks"; this means that it can be far more liberal with its ability to make plays. That, coupled with Shadow Tag, almost assures that you cannot outplay the Gengar.As most of my points are primarily anecdotal, here are some replays and logs with commentary by Melee Mewtwo about some SPL battles, the highest level of Ubers playing:If I need to provide more logs and commentary of good matches, I can do so.So: Mega Gengar's presence vastly threatens the tier and removes player skill from the equation by virtue of being able to eventually trap a Pokemon of necessity in order for a teammate to sweep. This can make player skill obsolete in a 1 v 1 situation, which shouldn't be what is showcased in an official tournament. Gengar is uncompetitive.As a point of reference, OU recently defined uncompetitive as the following:In layman's terms, this means that in a context of the game, the better player should typically have a better chance of winning. With Gengar, I do not truly believe you can say that this holds true in Ubers. Team matchup takes skill out of the players hand. Of course, it's always existent in almost every metagame, but as previously stated, Gengar's mixture of power AND support is unprecedented. Wobbuffet was deemed broken for support characteristics in Gen4, and Shaymin-S was deemed broken due to both luck, speed and power. Gengar is practically a mixture of the two and completely skews skill by virtue of its presence. Of course, this is Ubers, but it has the characteristics of two past banned Pokemon. I'm just trying to convey how much of a threat it really is if you haven't plyed the metagame.So, my proposal to this is rather obvious. Either implement a Shadow Tag or Gengarite clause in Ubers. Be sure to note bojangle's wording about the new definition of Ubers. The "least" amount of bans possible may have to encase Gengarite or Shadow Tag. There is no metagame truly without bans, even the current state of Ubers as clauses do exist. As shown in Melee Mewtwo's commentary, other Shadow Tag users can cause team matchup issues as well. CM Rest Gothitelle can trap a bulky Arceus and 6-0 their team if they lack a Dark-type for the most part. But... this is minor nitpicking and not where I'd like the main discussion. I don't particularly care about which would be implemented if a change occurs, I would just like something to be done. Or maybe my concept of broken differs from everyone elses. What do you think?To conclude this rather large post, Melee Mewtwo brought up a good point to me as for Shadow Tag clause if it was implemented: would it apply to lower tiers? I agree with him in saying that it would not. OU, UU, RU, and NU are all interconnected by usage; however, Ubers is a seperate entity and is in no way affected by any other tier. As Melee Mewtwo put it, it would be like applying an OU ban to something in Doubles. But this point is mainly trivial and nonimportant. If another tier wishes to have a Shadow Tag clause, they would be free to do so, but not forced to from my perspective.Thank you for your time.e: I left the solutions for this post rather open ended as I was unsure of what would necessitate a ban while still maintaining the tier's integrity. If Shadow Tag Clause is the best solution, this is what I support.