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Foxtrone



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Gender:Age: 30Joined: 20 Feb 2016Posts: 8 Posted: Thu Feb 25, 2016 10:18 pm Post subject:

Description: Slapbox wrote: And the January 29th update on Patreon is removed now too??



You guys have done so much great work and I want to believe in you all. I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt but please give us some sort of update, even a few sentences. We would all really appreciate it.



Thanks for all the great work you've all done.



I'm sure an update will come soon.

Dom_01



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Joined: 24 Jul 2008Posts: 25 Posted: Sun Feb 28, 2016 11:40 pm Post subject:

Description: How are things going? Silent partners

Slapbox



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Joined: 18 Feb 2012Posts: 5 Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2016 9:53 pm Post subject:

Description: Foxtrone wrote: I'm sure an update will come soon.



Doesn't seem likely =/



They're pulling down information about the project, not releasing anything new and there are serious concerns about the feasibility. I extended Beghins and his team the benefit of the doubt, but it's been weeks since we hit the $2000 mark and now we're no longer there as I've now pulled out as have several others. Down $100 since my last check. No sign of an update.



It looks very likely that Complex 10 will be an empty shell compared with what was promised.



If Beghins releases a solid, working version and addresses the technical concerns I will begin contributing again, but I'm not throwing my money away to not even get the courtesy of an occasional update.



Love the work Beghins has done in the past and it's a person's right to be flakey when you're doing something for free, but not when you're asking for monetary support.



Beghins would likely have over $2500 a month by now if he addressed the community. It seems to me that the reason they haven't addresses us is that they don't have a good answer for any of these concerns raised.



Very much hope I'm wrong, but I've lost faith.

Sithicus



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Gender:Age: 43Joined: 01 May 2008Posts: 688Location: UK Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2016 9:51 am Post subject:

Description: I've noticed that people are strating to pull out of Patreon.

Jelrak



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Gender:Age: 44Joined: 13 Jan 2016Posts: 279 Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2016 10:04 am Post subject:

Description: Do you think this would help at all?



Only registered users can see links on this board!

Get registred or enter the forums!

Oni



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Gender:Joined: 26 Jan 2009Posts: 1412Location: Czech Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2016 2:49 pm Post subject:

Description: Jelrak wrote: Do you think this would help at all?



http:6//www.ntcore.com/4gb_patch.php

Nope, this can't work with rm engine, i tested it.

Slapbox



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Joined: 18 Feb 2012Posts: 5 Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2016 3:29 pm Post subject:

Description: Oni wrote: Nope, this can't work with rm engine, i tested it.



Hi Oni,



Glad to see you here! We don't need a complete answer, but can you at least give us a little insight into how you plan to work around that problem and restore the community's faith that the project can be accomplished.



It seems impossible for example to ever possibly have 8 races with a 2gb limitation.



Thanks!

Oni



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Gender:Joined: 26 Jan 2009Posts: 1412Location: Czech Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2016 6:19 pm Post subject:

Description: Well that 2 GB limit is only for 32 bit windows or platforms.

If you have 64 bit OS your limit is 3,6 GB Ram.

For now there is no problem because complex uses 500 MB Ram.

I have planed to reach 1,2 GB. After that we will decide if going over 2 GB and be only 64bit or we reduce the content or we stay only on 4,5,6,7,8 races.

Also there is another variation what we can do. Simple you may do only 4 race variation pick.

That means you can choise only first 4 unique races picked. So in the map will be only 4 unique races but 8 players examle.

That situation around ram limit is only internet panic.

moyo



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Gender:Age: 51Joined: 04 Oct 2012Posts: 87Location: Minnesota Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2016 11:07 pm Post subject:

Description: Slapbox wrote: Foxtrone wrote: I'm sure an update will come soon.



Doesn't seem likely =/



They're pulling down information about the project, not releasing anything new and there are serious concerns about the feasibility. I extended Beghins and his team the benefit of the doubt, but it's been weeks since we hit the $2000 mark and now we're no longer there as I've now pulled out as have several others. Down $100 since my last check. No sign of an update.



It looks very likely that Complex 10 will be an empty shell compared with what was promised.



If Beghins releases a solid, working version and addresses the technical concerns I will begin contributing again, but I'm not throwing my money away to not even get the courtesy of an occasional update.



Love the work Beghins has done in the past and it's a person's right to be flakey when you're doing something for free, but not when you're asking for monetary support.



Beghins would likely have over $2500 a month by now if he addressed the community. It seems to me that the reason they haven't addresses us is that they don't have a good answer for any of these concerns raised.



Very much hope I'm wrong, but I've lost faith.



I think they are close to releasing it.

Dom_01



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Joined: 24 Jul 2008Posts: 25 Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2016 10:42 pm Post subject:

Description: Maybe they need someone to work on their PR. Such a great product; but when a month goes by without an update or public message (on Patreon), people will wonder what they are spending their money on.



I've been enjoying the Complex mod for many years, and i have no doubt a new release will be delivered.

Oni



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Gender:Joined: 26 Jan 2009Posts: 1412Location: Czech Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2016 11:29 pm Post subject:

Description: There is little chaoss in what kind of information is visible for peoples.

There are different groups of people, most information is in JIRA (internal dev.platform)

Some informations are in development section in this forum.

And no information is in general section and ofcourse information posted outside of this forum are more or less spam.

Also i forgot to mention we can't post more information before patch because it can reveal internal information from GBX about upcoming changes.

Posting screenshots/video or anything from game is like posting screenshots from upcoming patch, we are not authorized to do that.

Kenny_The_Klever



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Gender:Age: 25Joined: 05 Mar 2016Posts: 12 Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2016 6:24 pm Post subject:

Description: Slapbox wrote: Foxtrone wrote: I'm sure an update will come soon.



Doesn't seem likely =/



They're pulling down information about the project, not releasing anything new and there are serious concerns about the feasibility. I extended Beghins and his team the benefit of the doubt, but it's been weeks since we hit the $2000 mark and now we're no longer there as I've now pulled out as have several others. Down $100 since my last check. No sign of an update.



It looks very likely that Complex 10 will be an empty shell compared with what was promised.



If Beghins releases a solid, working version and addresses the technical concerns I will begin contributing again, but I'm not throwing my money away to not even get the courtesy of an occasional update.



Love the work Beghins has done in the past and it's a person's right to be flakey when you're doing something for free, but not when you're asking for monetary support.



Beghins would likely have over $2500 a month by now if he addressed the community. It seems to me that the reason they haven't addresses us is that they don't have a good answer for any of these concerns raised.



Very much hope I'm wrong, but I've lost faith.



I hate to say it, but based off of recent posts by Oni, this project is looking very shaky indeed. As per descriptions by the devs over on the GBX forums, this game has very little room to add in things like new factions, higher quality textures, and so on.



This is because the game engine is packaged as part of a 32-bit application, and can thus only utilise a maximum of 2GB of RAM. The idea that the LEAD ARTIST of this project doesn't seem to understand the basics that you cant just turn this into a 64-bit application to use more RAM is bizarre and somewhat disheartening.



This is far from being "only internet panic" as Oni dismissively said. This is a serious problem if the complex team insist that they can have lots of new factions and ships, PLUS making the ships with like 2x the detail of the vanilla ones.



I would suggest that people hold off throwing their money at this project, because as it stands, it seems likely to be released as a shell of what donors were expecting, or else released with lots of the promised bells and whistles, and highly unstable. In any case, a solid initial release seems quite a while away, if it ever happens at all...

CHIMAS



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Gender:Age: 49Joined: 30 Nov 2011Posts: 263Location: Rio GrandeOccupation: Business Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2016 1:17 am Post subject:

Description: I'm basing my opinion in what I have seen so far. I don't understand why making the next Complex with 4 races. Just stay with HW2 and leave HW1 ships for later. Aesthetically speaking, HW1 and HW2 don't match. It's like making naval combat simulator with galeons and carriers - they don't match.

Foxtrone



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Gender:Age: 30Joined: 20 Feb 2016Posts: 8 Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2016 3:45 pm Post subject:

Description: Kenny_The_Klever wrote: I hate to say it, but based off of recent posts by Oni, this project is looking very shaky indeed. As per descriptions by the devs over on the GBX forums, this game has very little room to add in things like new factions, higher quality textures, and so on.



This is because the game engine is packaged as part of a 32-bit application, and can thus only utilise a maximum of 2GB of RAM. The idea that the LEAD ARTIST of this project doesn't seem to understand the basics that you cant just turn this into a 64-bit application to use more RAM is bizarre and somewhat disheartening.



This is far from being "only internet panic" as Oni dismissively said. This is a serious problem if the complex team insist that they can have lots of new factions and ships, PLUS making the ships with like 2x the detail of the vanilla ones.



I would suggest that people hold off throwing their money at this project, because as it stands, it seems likely to be released as a shell of what donors were expecting, or else released with lots of the promised bells and whistles, and highly unstable. In any case, a solid initial release seems quite a while away, if it ever happens at all...



They wrote they will have 8 playable races in the mod. The Homeworld Remastered Engine only loads in assets into ram that are on the map.



Bitvenom wrote: Yes and Yes, I think. I mean, not all content is loaded, certainly. And if you can only have 2 players, well, you can only have 2 players :slightly_smiling: But make sure you take into account stuff like your backgrounds, and FX...



Our backgrounds are typically 40MB without any planets or extra stuff, up to 120MB with all of the fun stuff - a 'plain' background over 50MB is probably just an example of poor material/texture use... For example a raw Cube instead of much, much more optimal Sphere. In addition, consider the sorts of detail your background has/needs... You can use stars or even cut-out overlays to provide details on top of a MUCH lower-res base background. It is very easy to add new stars for hero items like small nebula or constellations - as opposed to pushing your background res high enough to make those sorts of things sharp.



For us, our most complicated backgrounds are in Campaign maps - we know exactly what will be in that level. For MP, often the most basic maps are best - leave the performance for other things. I've seen a fair amount of 'Cube' constructed maps - but those are insane: We use a single 4kx2k texture for our basic backgrounds - they often look amazing. As noted before, the stars and smaller details can be sharp as just extras not actually pixels in the background texture itself. A 'Cube' is going to be 2kx2k or more, per side - So that's 3x more RAM used, where often the top/bottom aren't seen. It's not only way slower to draw/render, it's wasteful - plus, the pixels for any given texture vary in screen-space size because they're smaller farther towards the edges of the cube.



For FX, the balance is similar - use low-res textures when you can for things that aren't sharp, stick to only a size that you require - bigger is NOT better.



And lastly, consider UI - here's another case where being conservative is king. That's because UI is ALWAYS loaded. Sure some of the ship-specific stuff only comes along with loaded ships (ShipIcons, etc) - but in general, super HQ UI art is burning your budget. Ship Icons are a great spot to screw up as well. Some authors insist on using big 'view' graphics - when often the on-screen size doesn't justify it. Or, they use non power-of-2 textures and choose shapes/aspects that waste RAM, often the same mistake over and over for each ship loaded - compounding the waste. A 512x256 preview icon is probably more than enough for most uses, and as a DDS ends up being tiny. You can scale it to 1024x512 easily - which is a substantial portion of even a 4k screen.



Sorry to harp - but I get really cranky when I see artists burning budget without any regard for a balance of end-result vs performance.



So while this means that you can't have 8 uniques races in a play session you can still have 8 unique races in the mod. And as Oni stated they could put a race variation cap.



Oni wrote: Also there is another variation what we can do. Simple you may do only 4 race variation pick.

That means you can choise only first 4 unique races picked. So in the map will be only 4 unique races but 8 players examle.



Some people are still questioning Beghins & co after more then 10 years of Homeworld 2 modding experience. I'm sure they had their fair share of issues back in the day, for which they had to make some clever workaround...

The reason for this sceptism probably is because of the succesfull patreon campaign. But I think most of us are donating them for their achievements anyways and not for a '8 unique race' promise.

Jelrak



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Gender:Age: 44Joined: 13 Jan 2016Posts: 279 Posted: Tue Mar 08, 2016 8:07 pm Post subject:

Description: Foxtrone wrote: But I think most of us are donating them for their achievements anyways and not for a '8 unique race' promise.



Precisely...!