Survivor Ghost Island has arrived! Every week, Parade’s Mike Bloom will bring you interviews with the castaway most recently voted off of the island.

“The hardest test out here is not being a dick. Because in my normal life, that’s what derails it all and I won’t be able to get back on the track.”

Though Bradley Kleihege may be used to passing tests in his everyday life, like the LSAT that got him into law school, this was one he unfortunately failed. Throughout his 19 days in the game, he found himself leading the majority, making for very easy votes on paper. But his personality seemed to overshadow his strategy at one point, as his impatience, negative demeanor and willingness to start discourse skewered his game as thoroughly as the chicken skewers he had feasted on with his fellow Navitis only a couple of days before his torch was snuffed.

Bradley came into the game with a large amount of self-confidence, with a lifelong fandom of Survivor under his belt and an aptitude for conflict to the point that he wanted to work in divorce court eventually. Though his Naviti tribe did not go to Tribal Council in the first week of the game, we still saw firsthand “Noble vs. Abbate,” as Chris Noble and Domenick Abbate were constructing a schism in the group built on bad first impressions and fake idols. Those fault lines seemed to get erased when the tribes swapped, though. Bradley found himself heading to Malolo beach–so to his chagrin–with Kellyn Bechtold, Desiree Afuye, Chelsea Townsend and Sebastian Noel. Despite finding his new camp filled with more grass and much more dirt, the Naviti transfers decided to play a clean game, knowing they were up 5-4 over the former Malolos. Bradley did not leave a great impression with the minority after his constant complaints about their living conditions. It also didn’t help his reputation that he seemed to be putting himself out there as the one to corral the Navitis and keep them in line, comparing himself to a babysitter. He compared himself to past winners Rob Mariano and Kim Spradlin, and his strategy made it clear to the former Malolos that this camp was anything but “One World” and they should hope for a “Redemption Island” to save them from certain doom. They tried to use Bradley’s personality against him at their first Tribal Council, with Michael Yerger making a bluff with one of James Clement’s former idols to get Sebastian and Chelsea to flip. But neither chose to bite the apple on joining up, and the Bradley-led alliance was easily able to dispatch of Brendan Shapiro (to the chagrin of middle school students everywhere) and Stephanie Johnson.

The third week of the game began with yet another tribe swap, which yielded good news and bad news for Bradley. On the bright side, he got to leave what he called the “squalor” of Malolo to go back to Naviti with Chelsea, reunite with Domenick and meet new tribe members Donathan Hurley and Libby Vincek. On the other hand, he left his closest ally behind in Kellyn, with whom he had been in lockstep since the very beginning of the game. He hoped, with three original Naviti to two original Malolo, he could continue with his strategy of pushing the straightforward vote to make it to the merge easily. But if the messy blindside of Morgan Ricke was any indication, it was that the copious amounts of sand at Naviti beach were constantly shifting. Domenick, Bradley and Chelsea initially decided to target Libby, with her duplicity against her close friend in her last Tribal Council showing a more nefarious side to the sweet Texas girl. But the blocks were beginning to stack against Bradley, much like they were in the Reward Challenge that had him sternly talking to Donathan to win them a feast of steak and chicken kebabs. The others were beginning to get angry with the way he was talking to them and treating them, something he wasn’t aware of as he relished the supposed mellow tone of his new tribe. When Domenick’s windedness in the Immunity Challenge took the wind out of Naviti’s sails, Bradley was confident the vote would be unanimous to send Libby out. Indeed the vote was unanimous, but stunningly to Bradley, it was in his direction. Having made more personal bonds with Libby and fearing the other connections Bradley had, they decided to give him another upgrade in living conditions by sending him to Ponderosa.

Now out of the game, Bradley talks with me about whether he knew a blindside was coming, how he planned to lead behind the scenes at Malolo and how Survivor gave him a career-changing epiphany.

You had several words to describe your blindside as you walked into the jungle last night, including “Adventure of a lifetime,” “Oh my God,” “Wow,” “Damn” and “That’s crazy.” What exactly was going through your head in that moment.

My first thought was, “Damn, you guys got me. Good job.” What I actually said was, “Wow. Damn. I didn’t see it coming. Good move, guys. I hope one of you wins the game.” Then I got my torch snuffed, and I walked out. So those were not actually the words I used in real life besides “[adventure of a lifetime].” It wasn’t 100 percent surprise. It was one of those situations where I didn’t think I was going home, but the vibe around camp after the Immunity Challenge was very weird. I felt like something was up, but I didn’t have anything to go off of. Dom, to his credit, was saying what he had to me. I was in a position where I wasn’t sure they were going to pull something on me to the point where I felt comfortable blowing up Tribal. What I didn’t want to do is vote myself out if they weren’t actually going to make a move on me. I tried to look at it as strategically and logically as I could, and it didn’t make sense to me why they would get rid of me right then. They would have a million other chances to get rid of me after that, and it would be really easy to get another jury threat out of the way. At that point, I was thinking any Malolo that was playing the game we would have to get rid of. Because if they make it to the end one of them will win because they’ve had such terrible luck.

I didn’t want to vote myself out, and that explains me saying, “It’s a cohesive bunch. It’s great!” I was frustrated that I had to play every day of the game with Chelsea, who is awesome outside of the game. But inside the game, she was super frustrating. She just came across as very fake to me. It didn’t happen until Day 17 where I felt I had a real conversation with Chelsea. And we talked every single day of the game! Then you have Libby, who would sit around and at one point she was trying to tell one of the camera guys how he can get rid of his acne scars with raw honey masks. She is in some other universe. Then you have Donathan, who was getting so built up by Jeff Probst. You can watch an ego swell and swell, and it was like, “Oh my goodness, you’re insufferable.” So no, it wasn’t a cohesive bunch, but that was the line I was trying to toe at Tribal because I thought, “Oh, that’s what I have to say. If they’re not actually turning on me, this is what I have to sell.” And then they did end up turning on me, obviously, so it’s a bummer.

The one Naviti you didn’t mention there was Domenick. You came back into Naviti in an intruiging position with him. Morgan told me you were working with him before the first swap. But then you come in hearing that he tried to get Angela voted out, which goes counter with your “Naviti strong” gameplay on Malolo. Did that make it harder to trust him?

Absolutely, but I knew that was my only place to work within those four. Coming from Malolo, where I had been so effective getting rid of Malolos, I didn’t think there was any way in the world I had a chance with Donathan or Libby. Which isn’t to say I didn’t try; you didn’t see any of that in the edit. I did not feel great about going to Naviti with those four people at all. But I had to operate with what I was [given]. The other thing about Angela getting votes is that Angela wasn’t with us in our alliance at original Naviti. To me, it was Naviti strong at Malolo, but in terms of the 10 of us Naviti, there were definite divisions. Dom and I were on the opposite side of that division from Angela. It worried me a little bit, but it wasn’t a massive red flag.

Let’s talk about those Naviti pre-swap dynamics. We didn’t see too much of them, particularly your side of things, in the first two episodes. Talk to me about your first few days in the game.

So Day 1, I was working with Wendell and Morgan. Then on Day 2, Kellyn and I started working together, then she became my closest ally. Then shortly after that, I started working with Dom, so it was the five of us. Then we got swapped, and it was 100 percent Kellyn and I running Malolo. The two of us would discuss what we wanted to do and who we wanted to vote for. Then we would talk to the other three one on one, then as a big group. Kellyn and I would never throw out a name. We would have one of the other people throw out the name, and we would encourage it. That way, everybody felt like they would make the decision, when in fact we were manipulating the response to their suggestions and could get who we wanted with everyone thinking they had a say. Should Chelsea have flipped when Michael played that idol? Yeah, probably! She was 100% on the bottom. But she thought she was getting to throw names out, and I guess that was enough to keep her.

That’s how you get scenes where you see Des keeps suggesting who to vote out. We kind of [listened to her], but she also threw out five other names, and we said no to those. Then she said the one we liked, and we encouraged it. That was very much on purpose. I was very close with Kellyn, and I was very close with Sebastian, which you don’t see. They tried to set it up as “Sebastian might flip on me when Michael plays that idol,” when there was not one ounce of doubt in my mind about what Sebastian was going to do. He was never going to flip. At one point, he said to one of the producers, “I’ll go to the end with Bradley and lose. I don’t really care.”

Did that stem from a personal connection you had with him?

Yeah, 100 percent. What was pretty cool was that he was obviously a fisherman, but we both had saltwater reef fish tanks. So we would go snorkeling out on the reef. What was so cool and amazing was you could go out there and see all this coral and fish that we’ve had in our fish tanks. We would go out there for hours trying to catch fish, but also enjoying being in Fiji. We both had this appreciation for getting to camp on the beach and go snorkeling in paradise. I know that probably sounds ridiculous after the edit I got of my complaining. [Laughs] But I was appreciative every single morning. I would get up every morning and watch the sunrise, usually out with one of the producers. We would make small talk, and every morning I was like, “I can’t believe I’m getting to live in paradise. This is the coolest thing ever.”

Let’s talk about that edit. I think even in a Secret Scene you admitted that you might be complaining more than you should about the Malolo living conditions. And this last episode focused on how you were being perceived by the rest of your tribe, especially after winning the Reward Challenge. How much were you aware of how you were coming across to your fellow castaways?

One hundred percent of the time. I was trying to [complain] strategically. I got there, and of course, Malolo is [expletive] compared to Naviti. But I was trying to do it in a way that would make the original Malolos feel OK or better about the fact that they were losing. So I went in there, and I was like, “This is awful, this is ridiculous. No wonder you guys have been losing!” It was always couched through, “It’s not your fault that you’re losing. It’s because it’s so windy and so cold at night, nobody can sleep more than a few minutes. At Naviti it’s warm, and there’s no wind because you’re on the other side of the island. That explains it.” So I was trying to work that angle. You see in that confessional where I realize about a day in, “Oh, God, this is not working at all. I definitely complain too much.” But it wasn’t just sitting around thinking it was so awful. I was trying to build a rapport. It didn’t work.

Also on Malolo, you talked about how you wanted to play a Boston Rob/Kim Spradlin game, getting all your ducks in a row. But at the same time, you said, “The leader never wins.” Can you explain what you meant by that, and does that tie into what you were speaking about before of convincing people that they’re the ones making the decisions? Because as we saw from that Tribal Council when Brendan went home when you get targeted as the leader, it’s a long fall from the top.

[Laughs] Yeah, it is. I don’t know if I further explained what I meant by “leader” at that moment. You had someone like Brendan who was overtly the leader of those original Malolos. Then you had me. I knew I was leading it with Kellyn, but I thought we were under the radar because we weren’t throwing names out and asking the others, “Who do you want to vote for? What do you think we should do?” Then subtly encouraging what we want to happen so they thought it was their own idea. That’s what I meant by that comment. The overt, Brendan-esque “I’m leading this tribe” doesn’t win. What I was trying to do was lead from a standpoint that it didn’t look like I was actually leading it.

What I meant [with] the Boston Rob/Kim Spradlin [comment] was getting your ducks in a row. But what you didn’t see was that I had instituted the buddy system like Boston Rob had in Redemption Island. Those Malolos before Tribal Council could not go anywhere without being followed by an original Naviti. We didn’t let them go anywhere by themselves, and it drove them nuts. They were so angry that we were doing it because of course, they wanted to go off and scheme. In the Tribal where Stephanie went home, we were going to go in and vote Michael out. But then she got back, and in her bag, we found the note that said the [Ghost Island] game was closed. We babysat her every moment she had been back, so we knew she didn’t have an idol, and we knew she didn’t get one at Ghost Island. At that point, Michael was coming around to Kellyn and I. So we thought, “Hey, he could be a good ally.” But there’s also still an element of unknown with Michael; he could have an idol. But we kept complete track of Stephanie and knew she didn’t have it, so she’s the safer bet. And she was a threat! She was pretty good at the game. Her scheming and her gameplay were apparent to the rest of us. She was a great player, so it was a good move.

In your Day After video, you said that Survivor gave you a sense of clarity about how you wanted to move forward into your last year of law school. Can you elaborate on that?

Well, I don’t want to be a lawyer! All that nonsense about, “Oh, I’ll be a brilliant lawyer!” is all for the camera. I don’t want to be a lawyer. It’s funny because I read all these comments online where people are like, “I went to law school, and I hate the Bradleys of school.” What people don’t realize is that I’m the person who sits in the back, doesn’t say a word and wants nothing to do with it. I’m the person that doesn’t like the people who act like Bradley the character on TV in class. What’s so difficult is that when you’re doing it, there’s a lot of other people I go to school with who don’t like it. It’s very taboo to sit there and say, “I don’t want to be a lawyer.” And I’m not going to; I’m going to find something else to do. In that big moment, I was able to step back and say, “You know what? It’s probably not what I want to do.”

From some other standpoints, and this is so not apparent from the edit I got, I did build really, really strong connections with a lot of these people. I went in there wanting to make a connection with every person, to have conversations and get to know everybody. And it worked! For almost everyone, I gave a little bit of effort in trying to get to know them and trying to be friends with them, and it paid dividends. A lot of these people are some of my best friends in the entire world now. I would have loved to have won the game; I would have loved to have made the merge. But at the same time, I wouldn’t want to change what I was able to accomplish personal growth-wise. Somebody reading this will be so confused. They’ll be like, “Oh, you’re so delusional. You’re completely unaware.” But I am very aware. Even with someone like Stephanie, who said, “I’ve never seen a grown man whine as much as you.” Whatever, it’s a fantastic line. I think it’s hilarious and I think it fits perfectly with my character. I’ve loved watching my character on TV. I think it’s so fascinating, so hilarious. It’s everything I wanted it to be. I wanted it to be as entertaining as possible and make the season as good as possible. Through all of that, what you don’t see is when I voted off Stephanie, we had a lot of really great conversations, and we became pretty close. I just couldn’t trust her, and that’s why I got rid of her. It was nothing about her or the connections we had. There has not been a day that has gone by since we got back from the experience in July that the six of us, excluding Jacob, from the pre-merge haven’t sent 50 text messages in our group chat. We’re best friends now, and that’s true of a number of other people who did make the merge and didn’t go on the trip with me. They’re some of the best people I could ever ask for.

On the note of your edit, I know that you also earned the ire of a number of people on social media, especially Brendan’s students. How were you able to handle that amount of negativity coming your way en masse?

That’s what I wanted. I wanted to go in and be the villain; I wanted people to root against me. Is it tied to who I am in the edit? Yeah, I’m kind of a ridiculous, over-the-top person in real life. I think what’s lost on a lot of people is that I do it ironically and I do it very self-aware. And that nuance is easy to edit out. It befuddles me when I see things on the internet. I watch the edit, and I watch what people are talking about, and I’m like, “I didn’t even say anything that bad.” I make a massive point of never being malicious, never bullying anybody. I think that nuance is lost on a lot of people, which is sometimes frustrating, but most of the time it’s funny.