Torte de Lini Profile Joined September 2010 Germany 7680 Posts Last Edited: 2015-09-24 15:59:22 #3381 DRAFT Patch 6.84



+ Show Spoiler + Unchanged





Skill Changes subject to change

+ Show Spoiler + Alchemist

Crystal Maiden (ult at 6)

Juggernaut (revert to old build?)

Lifestealer (2 less levels in Open Wounds?)

Nyx Assassin - Middle (gear towards non-dagon?)

Pugna (max decrepify second?)

Riki (prioritize smoke lvl 1)

Sand King (early level - Caustic Finale?) AlchemistCrystal Maiden (ult at 6)Juggernaut (revert to old build?)Lifestealer (2 less levels in Open Wounds?)Nyx Assassin - Middle (gear towards non-dagon?)Pugna (max decrepify second?)Riki (prioritize smoke lvl 1)Sand King (early level - Caustic Finale?)



Item Changes subject to change

+ Show Spoiler + Abaddon

Alchemist

Ancient Apparition

Axe

Bane

Batrider

Beastmaster (Valve, please update this guide so the ult can be skilled)

Bloodseeker

Bounty Hunter

Brewmaster

Bristleback

Broodmother

Centaur Warrunner

Chaos Knight

Chen

Clinkz

Clockwerk

Dark Seer

Dazzle

Death Prophet

Disruptor

Dragon Knight

Drow Ranger

Earthshaker

Earth Spirit

Elder Titan

Ember Spirit

Enchantress

Enigma

Gyrocopter

Huskar

Invoker

IO

Jakiro

Juggernaut

Keeper of the Light

Kunkka

Legion Commander

Leshrac

Lich

Lifestealer

Lina

Lone Druid

Luna

Lycan

Magnus

Medusa

Meepo

Mirana

Morphling

Naga Siren

Nature's Prophet

Necrophos

Night Stalker

Nyx Assassin

Ogre Magi

Omniknight

Oracle

Outworld Devourer

Phantom Assassin

Phantom Lancer

Phoenix

Puck

Pudge

Pugna

Queen of Pain

Razor

Riki

Rubick

Sand King

Shadow Demon

Shadow Shaman

Shadow Fiend

Silencer

Slardar

Slark

Sniper

Spectre

Spirit Breaker

Storm Spirit

Sven

Techies

Templar Assassin

Terrorblade

Tidehunter

Timbersaw

Tinker

Tiny

Treant Protector

Troll Warlord

Tusk

Undying

Ursa

Vengeful Spirit

Venomancer

Viper

Visage

Warlock

Weaver

Windranger

Winter Wyvern

Witch Doctor

Wraith King

Zeus AbaddonAlchemistAncient ApparitionAxeBaneBatriderBeastmaster (BloodseekerBounty HunterBrewmasterBristlebackBroodmotherCentaur WarrunnerChaos KnightChenClinkzClockwerkDark SeerDazzleDeath ProphetDisruptorDragon KnightDrow RangerEarthshakerEarth SpiritElder TitanEmber SpiritEnchantressEnigmaGyrocopterHuskarInvokerIOJakiroJuggernautKeeper of the LightKunkkaLegion CommanderLeshracLichLifestealerLinaLone DruidLunaLycanMagnusMedusaMeepoMiranaMorphlingNaga SirenNature's ProphetNecrophosNight StalkerNyx AssassinOgre MagiOmniknightOracleOutworld DevourerPhantom AssassinPhantom LancerPhoenixPuckPudgePugnaQueen of PainRazorRikiRubickSand KingShadow DemonShadow ShamanShadow FiendSilencerSlardarSlarkSniperSpectreSpirit BreakerStorm SpiritSvenTechiesTemplar AssassinTerrorbladeTidehunterTimbersawTinkerTinyTreant ProtectorTroll WarlordTuskUndyingUrsaVengeful SpiritVenomancerViperVisageWarlockWeaverWindrangerWinter WyvernWitch DoctorWraith KingZeus



Item Application: subject to change

Quelling Blade:

Eul's Scepter of Divinity: Remove on a bunch of heroes

Magic Wand -> Change to Magic Stick or starting items to consider circlet

Mask of Madness: Revert back to old build

Observer Wards: Change starting items desc. to indicate buying both courier + wards

Refresher Orb: remove on

Vladmir's Offering: more included on utility heroes/supports

Aghanim's Scepter (Core/Situational/Extension):

Blink Dagger:

Boots of Travel:

Mask of Madness:

Enchanted Mango: Junglers? some midlaners and bottle holders

Glimmer Cape: for supports

Solar Crest: for utility heroes (situational)

Lotus Orb: tanky heroes?

Moon Shard: Carries/Str heroes/Bashers

Silver Edge: Gankers/S&Y who don't care for Yasha

Guardian Greaves: Supports/Utilities

Octarine Core: Nukers



Potential New Guides Quelling Blade:Eul's Scepter of Divinity: Remove on a bunch of heroesMagic Wand -> Change to Magic Stick or starting items to consider circletMask of Madness: Revertback to old buildObserver Wards: Change starting items desc. to indicate buying both courier + wardsRefresher Orb: remove onVladmir's Offering: more included on utility heroes/supportsAghanim's Scepter (Core/Situational/Extension):Blink Dagger:Boots of Travel:Mask of Madness:Enchanted Mango: Junglers?some midlaners and bottle holdersGlimmer Cape: for supportsSolar Crest: for utility heroes (situational)Lotus Orb: tanky heroes?Moon Shard: Carries/Str heroes/BashersSilver Edge: Gankers/S&Y who don't care for YashaGuardian Greaves: Supports/UtilitiesOctarine Core: Nukers subject to change

Sand King - Jungle

Windranger - Middle

[*] above are just initial thoughts, not accurate or reflective of upcoming changes[/list]







New color for patch 6.84 (dark solid purple plum)



Actual Schedule (CEST)

Day 1

- 8 to 12:00: Patch Analysis, information collecting (videos, opinions, etc.) + draft notes

- 12:00 to 12:30: Lunch

- 12:30 to 3:00: Title Changes + Date Updates for initial unchanged heroes (un/mentioned from the patch notes)

- 3:00 to 5:30: Narrow and apply initial changes (descriptions, obvious skill builds) + finish my actual job

- 5:30 to 6:30: Dinner/Rest

- 6:30 to 10:30: Apply changes

- 10:30 onward: Rest and actual dinner



Day 2

- 10 to 11:00: Further application of items, updating descriptions.



Total Elapsed Time (including lunch/dinner): 27.5 hours Sand King - JungleWindranger - Middle[*] above are just initial thoughts, not accurate or reflective of upcoming changes[/list]New color for patch 6.84 (dark solid purple plum)- 8 to 12:00: Patch Analysis, information collecting (videos, opinions, etc.) + draft notes- 12:00 to 12:30: Lunch- 12:30 to 3:00: Title Changes + Date Updates for initial unchanged heroes (un/mentioned from the patch notes)- 3:00 to 5:30: Narrow and apply initial changes (descriptions, obvious skill builds) + finish my actual job- 5:30 to 6:30: Dinner/Rest- 6:30 to 10:30: Apply changes- 10:30 onward: Rest and actual dinner- 10 to 11:00: Further application of items, updating descriptions. https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)

Sn0_Man Profile Joined October 2012 Tebellong 31461 Posts #3384 okay its simple

bfury = lets u hit multiple creeps at a time

maelstrom = lets u hit multiple creeps at a time

moon edge = nothing like that whatsoever. only attackspeed which is almost always less efficient than damage until you have a fair bit of damage already since you start with (100 + base agi) attackspeed. Moderator SCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302

TheYango Profile Joined September 2008 United States 10886 Posts #3385 I literally have no idea where the comparison of Moon Shard to Battlefury came from. Moderator

SpiritoftheTunA Profile Joined August 2006 United States 14737 Posts Last Edited: 2015-04-28 20:49:48 #3386 alch doesn't make a good candidate for moon shard at all; BAT difference doesn't make attack speed more efficient than damage, the optimal damage to attack speed ratio is completely independent of BAT



i guess he's one of the first heroes you think of for the efficient 7th slot feature though posting on liquid sites in current year

Sn0_Man Profile Joined October 2012 Tebellong 31461 Posts Last Edited: 2015-04-28 20:50:11 #3387 On April 29 2015 05:49 SpiritoftheTunA wrote:

alch doesn't make a good candidate for moon shard at all; BAT difference doesn't make attack speed more efficient than damage, the optimal damage to attack speed ratio is completely independent of BAT

However, alch does 6-slot the easiest which makes a permanent 60 ias without costing a slot suddenly attractive

E: yeah u edited on me However, alch does 6-slot the easiest which makes a permanent 60 ias without costing a slot suddenly attractiveE: yeah u edited on me Moderator SCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302

TheYango Profile Joined September 2008 United States 10886 Posts #3388 Yeah I'm pretty sure the reason you buy Moon Shard on Alch is because you hit 6 items so fast, but even then you have to weigh it against buying Aghas for people, lol. Moderator

Torte de Lini Profile Joined September 2010 Germany 7680 Posts #3389 I'm just tired; so I am not thinking straight - I saw BF and MS at the same cost and made the connection (killing creeps at an incredible rate -> works to the late-game [dissolves or use for the fast attack speed].



I will be clocking out for tonight. Started at 8 - ending at 10:30 --- Will continue tomorrow. https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)

Torte de Lini Profile Joined September 2010 Germany 7680 Posts #3390 Just woke up; going to work and will slip in probably another 40-50 changes while working. https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)

Torte de Lini Profile Joined September 2010 Germany 7680 Posts #3391 Still chugging along, please check 6.84 inquiries (its at the end of the patch notes) for things I'm unsure about. Overall; I love how these items create another of late-game potential, but also fill gaps for a lot of heroes I felt were trap in one build or another. I think I am excited most for Silver Edge and Solar Crest.



I should be done in 2 hours if I go at this pace. https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)

Doomblaze Profile Joined October 2010 United States 389 Posts #3392 At first glance I would say no for all of your inquiries.



In Mushi we trust

TheYango Profile Joined September 2008 United States 10886 Posts Last Edited: 2015-04-29 18:13:34 #3393 Alchemist - Lotus Orb instead of Black King Bar in Situational Items?

Why? The items don't really serve an overlapping function, so why would this cross your mind as a direct replacement?

Why? The items don't really serve an overlapping function, so why would this cross your mind as a direct replacement? Moon Shard to Situational Items?

You could but it's pretty much just a "I have no slots left and am buying Moon Shards to eat them" scenario, and anyone who doesn't know to do that when they have 10k gold banked on 6 items is losing games because they don't know to do that.



You could but it's pretty much just a "I have no slots left and am buying Moon Shards to eat them" scenario, and anyone who doesn't know to do that when they have 10k gold banked on 6 items is losing games because they don't know to do that. Death Prophet Glimmer Cape, Core Items?

What function does Glimmer Cape serve that DP wants as core?



What function does Glimmer Cape serve that DP wants as core? Doom Enchanted Mango for Jungling?

No. Mango's cost-efficiency is shit if you're using the mana just to farm (150 gold for 150 mana is terrible, lol). It's for heroes that use the regen and then can use the mana in a pinch, but Doom jungle is just going to be farming.



No. Mango's cost-efficiency is shit if you're using the mana just to farm (150 gold for 150 mana is terrible, lol). It's for heroes that use the regen and then can use the mana in a pinch, but Doom jungle is just going to be farming. Doom Shift to carry build: Silver Edge, Moon Shard?

I don't know what would prompt this change, the items aren't especially good for him.



I don't know what would prompt this change, the items aren't especially good for him. Dragon Knight Glimmer Cape?

It's situationally good because it's disassemble-able so if it's a game for Lothar's, the casual cloak is not terrible.



It's situationally good because it's disassemble-able so if it's a game for Lothar's, the casual cloak is not terrible. Legion Commander Silver Edge worthwhile? Shadow Blade still has a mana cost that chips off LC.

Lothar's LC was already bad and Silver Edge doesn't make it better.



Lothar's LC was already bad and Silver Edge doesn't make it better. Lone Druid Mjollnir still good on Bear or just rush Moon Shard first (thus Moon Shard is Extension)?

LD is like the opposite of a Moon Shard hero.



Moon Shard is not really an effective item outside of situational night vision extension and the eat-them-at-6-items case. Outside of that it's just 2 Hyperstones for the cost of 2 Hyperstones--it doesn't provide any distinct function that lets you do anything special. LD has a second unit that scouts for him and has 12 item slots which means he's the least likely carry to need either of those. LD is like the opposite of a Moon Shard hero.Moon Shard is not really an effective item outside of situational night vision extension and the eat-them-at-6-items case. Outside of that it's just 2 Hyperstones for the cost of 2 Hyperstones--it doesn't provide any distinct function that lets you do anything special. LD has a second unit that scouts for him and has 12 item slots which means he's the least likely carry to need either of those. Moderator

Logo Profile Joined April 2010 United States 4568 Posts Last Edited: 2015-04-29 18:57:48 #3394 Would Guardian Greaves be a good extension or situational item for Dark Seer? He already is sort of agnostic to boot choice and usually gets a mek so it's not a stretch to go up to the greaves. It still seems like BoTs is a better extension, but the 15 armor for heroes under 20% seems pretty interesting.



At the very least in games with dispellable silences it seems really useful.



It also seems like Oct core would possibly be more useful for Necro than Lotus? You're potentially talking about big HP boosts on Necro every 3.75s (not to mention the faster healing of allies) and a massive recovery from ult targets. Logo

Torte de Lini Profile Joined September 2010 Germany 7680 Posts Last Edited: 2015-04-29 21:37:52 #3395 Guides have been drafted new changes. When the new patch hits; I will replace the placeholder items and put in the proper ones.



Inquiries are updated as well if everyone wants to take a look. Will read replies shortly, creating Reddit thread then going home as I am still at the office.







When the new patch hits; I will replace the placeholder items and put in the proper ones.Inquiries are updated as well if everyone wants to take a look. Will read replies shortly, creating Reddit thread then going home as I am still at the office. Total changes made (includes text/description. updates): approx. 400 changes

109 Guides changes applied

35 Guides remain unchanged



Actual Schedule (CEST)

Day 1

- 8 to 12:00: Patch Analysis, information collecting (videos, opinions, etc.) + draft notes

- 12:00 to 12:30: Lunch

- 12:30 to 3:00: Title Changes + Date Updates for initial unchanged heroes (un/mentioned from the patch notes)

- 3:00 to 5:30: Narrow and apply initial changes (descriptions, obvious skill builds) + finish my actual job

- 5:30 to 6:30: Dinner/Rest

- 6:30 to 10:30: Apply changes

- 10:30 onward: Rest and actual dinner



Day 2

- 10 to 11:00: Further application of items, updating descriptions.



Total Elapsed Time (including lunch/dinner): 27.5 hours https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)

Sn0_Man Profile Joined October 2012 Tebellong 31461 Posts #3396 all of ur glimmer cape suggestions and 80% of ur other ones are bad Moderator SCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302

Torte de Lini Profile Joined September 2010 Germany 7680 Posts Last Edited: 2015-04-29 21:40:03 #3397 On April 30 2015 06:23 Sn0_Man wrote:

all of ur glimmer cape suggestions and 80% of ur other ones are bad



I am walking home, but specifics would be appreciated.



For most new item changes; I was cautious to leave it situational and will slowly remove them; similar as I did for Bottle when it was changed in recent patches. I am walking home, but specifics would be appreciated.For most new item changes; I was cautious to leave it situational and will slowly remove them; similar as I did for Bottle when it was changed in recent patches. https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)

Torte de Lini Profile Joined September 2010 Germany 7680 Posts #3398 On April 30 2015 03:42 Logo wrote:

Would Guardian Greaves be a good extension or situational item for Dark Seer? He already is sort of agnostic to boot choice and usually gets a mek so it's not a stretch to go up to the greaves. It still seems like BoTs is a better extension, but the 15 armor for heroes under 20% seems pretty interesting.



At the very least in games with dispellable silences it seems really useful.



It also seems like Oct core would possibly be more useful for Necro than Lotus? You're potentially talking about big HP boosts on Necro every 3.75s (not to mention the faster healing of allies) and a massive recovery from ult targets.



Good idea, it would stop the Bloodstone chanting I get a lot about the guide. Will definitely look into it when I get home.









For Dark Seer, I figured so as well, but was unsure in terms of priority. Good idea, it would stop the Bloodstone chanting I get a lot about the guide. Will definitely look into it when I get home.For Dark Seer, I figured so as well, but was unsure in terms of priority. https://twitter.com/#!/TorteDeLini (@TorteDeLini)

tehh4ck3r Profile Joined August 2013 Magrathea 5918 Posts #3399 tinker should get upgraded travel boots at some point Administrator In those days, spirits were brave, the stakes were high, men were real men, women were real women, and small furry creatures from Alpha Centauri were real small furry creatures from Alpha Centauri.

Sn0_Man Profile Joined October 2012 Tebellong 31461 Posts #3400 Alchemist Lotus Orb instead of Black King Bar in Situational Items? No

Alchemist Moon Shard to Situational Items? No

Juggernaut revert back to old build (max spin)? no comment

Juggernaut Remove Mask of Madness, include battlefury? no comment

Centaur Warrunner Prioritization of Heaven's Halberd, Pipe of Insight and Aghanim's Scepter is unsure. Most games blink aghs bkb or blink bkb aghs

Death Prophet Glimmer Cape, Core Items? NO

Doom Enchanted Mango for Jungling? no

Doom Shift to carry build: Silver Edge, Moon Shard? no

Dragon Knight Glimmer Cape? no

Faceless Void How to build up his attack speed? same as always

Invoker New Skill Build? no

Legion Commander Silver Edge worthwhile? Shadow Blade still has a mana cost that chips off LC. no

Lone Druid Mjollnir still good on Bear or just rush Moon Shard first (thus Moon Shard is Extension)? never moon shard

Meepo Glimmer Cape or is that just a cutesy/novel idea? no

Mirana Chang Mirana's Skill Build to be less noob-friendly, but more expected way to be played? dunno what skill build is

Naga Siren Aghanim's Scepter situationally worthwhile for Naga Siren? technically support naga makes 42% heal in full ult but no its bad

Nature's Prophet Aghanim's Scepter still sounds iffy, thoughts? bad

Nature's Prophet Glimmer Cape for Core - Pusher? NO

Night Stalker Aghanim's Scepter is decent, but I find it isn't prioritized. it should be

Oracle Eul's Scepter Situational? no

Oracle Solar Crest Core? NO

Skywrath Mage Can't find anything to really change for him, neither as midlane or roamer, suggestions? isnt he fine

Sniper Nothing to really change? He's just been nerfed + Mask of Madness nerf. mom is probably bad now since u relied on that MS really badly

Templar Assassin Glimmer Cape as Situational Items? NO

Undying Lotus Orb situational? Any validity in that? actually the stats are good on undying but the item is permanently situational

Ursa Item build needs massive reworking since his ult and strength no longer accounted for. not really u still build blink bkb hex/basher with lifesteal in there often. its not like skadi is bad just because the hp doesnt give u damage its still good

Ursa Thinking Solar Crest could have a higher priority of core or extension... no

Viper Glimmer Cape core instead of Mekansm? Magic Resist not really needed however. no

Weaver Max Geminate Attack now? no

Windranger Change to Slahser's Build? yes Moderator SCIENTISTS BAFFLED | 3275929302

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