Debian Bug report logs - #819703

xscreensaver: please disable "This version of XScreenSaver is very old! Please upgrade!" message

Reported by: Daniel Shahaf <danielsh@apache.org> Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 03:03:01 UTC Severity: important Tags: patch Merged with 820880 Found in versions xscreensaver/5.30-1, xscreensaver/5.30-1+deb8u1, xscreensaver/5.34-1 Fixed in versions xscreensaver/5.34-2, xscreensaver/5.30-1+deb8u2 Done: schwinn <al.schwinn@gsi.de> Bug is archived. No further changes may be made.

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Report forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, danielsh@apache.org, Tormod Volden <debian.tormod@gmail.com> :

Bug#819703 ; Package xscreensaver . (Fri, 01 Apr 2016 03:03:05 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Acknowledgement sent to Daniel Shahaf <danielsh@apache.org> :

New Bug report received and forwarded. Copy sent to danielsh@apache.org, Tormod Volden <debian.tormod@gmail.com> . (Fri, 01 Apr 2016 03:03:05 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Message #5 received at submit@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Daniel Shahaf <danielsh@apache.org> To: Debian Bug Tracking System <submit@bugs.debian.org> Subject: xscreensaver: please disable "This version of XScreenSaver is very old! Please upgrade!" message Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2016 03:00:38 +0000

Package: xscreensaver Version: 5.34-1 Severity: normal Tags: upstream patch Dear Maintainer, In the lock screen, XScreenSaver displays the following message in bold font: This version of XScreenSaver is very old! Please upgrade! There is a similar warning when opening the "Screensaver" command from the XFCE Applications Menu: _("Warning:



" "This version of xscreensaver is VERY OLD!

" "Please upgrade!

" "

" "http://www.jwz.org/xscreensaver/

" "

" "(If this is the latest version that your distro ships, then

" "your distro is doing you a disservice. Build from source.)

" ), Please disable these warnings. A proposed (untested) patch attached. I know that the author has placed a Big Fat Warning in senescent_p() asking distro maintainers not to remove those warnings. However, as a user I find these warnings rude and obnoxious, and I wish my computer not to be obnoxious to me. Therefore, I ask that you disable the recency check, notwithstanding the author's request. The author's wishes that users not bother him with bugs about old versions of the software can surely be addressed without unavoidable dialogs in *bold* or ALL CAPS presented _every time a user unlocks her screensaver_, as well as every time a user tries to configure her screensaver. I can think of at least two ways off the top of my head¹, that don't involve discrediting xscreensaver's downstreams or shouting at users. Thank you. Daniel ¹ - include the release date, advice to upgrade, and a statement that upstream won't accept bug reports, all rendered in the typical running text font, wherever the version number is displayed; or - route users' bug reports to upstream through a web page that explains the issue; or - route users' bug reports to upstream through a web form that has a "Version number:" field and gives the "Out of date" error if the user filled in an old version number. P.S. I'm reporting this against the version in stable/jessie, but as far as I can tell, the problem still exists in git revision debian/5.33-1-4-gff0d1d4.

Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Tormod Volden <debian.tormod@gmail.com> :

Bug#819703 ; Package xscreensaver . (Fri, 01 Apr 2016 04:33:03 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Acknowledgement sent to Jamie Zawinski <jwz@jwz.org> :

Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Tormod Volden <debian.tormod@gmail.com> . (Fri, 01 Apr 2016 04:33:03 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Message #10 received at 819703@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Jamie Zawinski <jwz@jwz.org> To: 819703@bugs.debian.org Subject: Re: Bug#819703: xscreensaver: please disable "This version of XScreenSaver is very old! Please upgrade!" message Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2016 21:24:11 -0700

In the time it took me to read your whine, you could have upgraded your incredibly-out-of-date computer and saved us all the grief. > However, as a user I find these warnings rude and obnoxious, and I wish my computer not to be obnoxious to me. I find your request to be obnoxious and I wish to not have read it, but sadly we don't always get what we want. -- Jamie Zawinski https://www.jwz.org/ https://www.dnalounge.com/

Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Tormod Volden <debian.tormod@gmail.com> :

Bug#819703 ; Package xscreensaver . (Fri, 01 Apr 2016 07:54:03 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Acknowledgement sent to Łukasz Stelmach <l.stelmach@samsung.com> :

Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Tormod Volden <debian.tormod@gmail.com> . (Fri, 01 Apr 2016 07:54:04 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Message #15 received at 819703@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Łukasz Stelmach <l.stelmach@samsung.com> To: 819703@bugs.debian.org Subject: xscreensaver: please upgrade the package Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2016 09:40:48 +0200

Dear Maintainer, please update the xscreensaver package in both Jessie and Wheezy. Thak you, -- Łukasz Stelmach Samsung R&D Institute Poland Samsung Electronics

Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Tormod Volden <debian.tormod@gmail.com> :

Bug#819703 ; Package xscreensaver . (Fri, 01 Apr 2016 07:57:06 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Acknowledgement sent to Axel Beckert <abe@debian.org> :

Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Tormod Volden <debian.tormod@gmail.com> . (Fri, 01 Apr 2016 07:57:06 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Message #20 received at 819703@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Axel Beckert <abe@debian.org> To: Daniel Shahaf <danielsh@apache.org>, 819703@bugs.debian.org Subject: Re: Bug#819703: xscreensaver: please disable "This version of XScreenSaver is very old! Please upgrade!" message Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 09:54:39 +0200

Control: found -1 5.30-1 Hi, Daniel Shahaf wrote: > In the lock screen, XScreenSaver displays the following message in bold font: > > This version of XScreenSaver is very old! Please upgrade! Indeed. Very annoying. Upstream obviously hasn't understood how distributions work and what stable releases are. > A proposed (untested) patch attached. Tormod: Please fix this issue also in Debian Jessie via jessie-proposed-updates where it probably annoys end users the most. > I know that the author has placed a Big Fat Warning in senescent_p() > asking distro maintainers not to remove those warnings. However, as > a user I find these warnings rude and obnoxious, and I wish my computer > not to be obnoxious to me. Therefore, I ask that you disable the > recency check, notwithstanding the author's request. I second this. > The author's wishes that users not bother him with bugs about old > versions of the software can surely be addressed without unavoidable > dialogs in *bold* or ALL CAPS presented _every time a user unlocks her > screensaver_, as well as every time a user tries to configure her > screensaver. That won't help. It will primarily help to scare people away from software with stubborn upstream maintainers as it has happened in the past with e.g. ion3 (stubborn license), micq (stating disagreement between upstream and packager to users). > ¹ - include the release date, advice to upgrade, and a statement that > upstream won't accept bug reports, all rendered in the typical running > text font, wherever the version number is displayed; or I don't think "advice to upgrade" is much better than the current situation, except that it doesn't involve CAPS-LOCK and exclamation marks. > - route users' bug reports to upstream through a web page that > explains the issue; or > - route users' bug reports to upstream through a web form that has > a "Version number:" field and gives the "Out of date" error if the > user filled in an old version number. That sounds like sane solutions for upstream. Nevertheless, that doesn't solve our problem in Debian and its downstream distributions. > P.S. I'm reporting this against the version in stable/jessie, Sorry, you didn't. I've added the version (initially) in Jessie now. > diff --git a/driver/prefs.c b/driver/prefs.c > index 55bac7b..f9f96c3 100644 > --- a/driver/prefs.c > +++ b/driver/prefs.c > @@ -1663,6 +1663,8 @@ stop_the_insanity (saver_preferences *p) > Bool > senescent_p (void) > { > + return 0; > + > /* If you are in here because you're planning on disabling this warning > before redistributing my software, please don't. That doesn't fix the XFCE menu warning, too, right? Regards, Axel -- ,''`. | Axel Beckert <abe@debian.org>, http://people.debian.org/~abe/ : :' : | Debian Developer, ftp.ch.debian.org Admin `. `' | 4096R: 2517 B724 C5F6 CA99 5329 6E61 2FF9 CD59 6126 16B5 `- | 1024D: F067 EA27 26B9 C3FC 1486 202E C09E 1D89 9593 0EDE

Marked as found in versions xscreensaver/5.30-1. Request was from Axel Beckert <abe@debian.org> to 819703-submit@bugs.debian.org . (Fri, 01 Apr 2016 07:57:06 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Tormod Volden <debian.tormod@gmail.com> :

Bug#819703 ; Package xscreensaver . (Fri, 01 Apr 2016 09:51:14 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Acknowledgement sent to Сергей Жлобо <sey@well-comm.ru> :

Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Tormod Volden <debian.tormod@gmail.com> . (Fri, 01 Apr 2016 09:51:15 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Message #27 received at 819703@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Сергей Жлобо <sey@well-comm.ru> To: 819703@bugs.debian.org Subject: 1 april fulls day joke? Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 12:40:08 +0300

Hello, is it joke )?

Removed tag(s) upstream. Request was from Axel Beckert <beckert@phys.ethz.ch> to control@bugs.debian.org . (Fri, 01 Apr 2016 10:54:03 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Tormod Volden <debian.tormod@gmail.com> :

Bug#819703 ; Package xscreensaver . (Fri, 01 Apr 2016 11:06:07 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Acknowledgement sent to Roberto <roberto@zenvoid.org> :

Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Tormod Volden <debian.tormod@gmail.com> . (Fri, 01 Apr 2016 11:06:07 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Message #34 received at 819703@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Roberto <roberto@zenvoid.org> To: 819703@bugs.debian.org Subject: Re: xscreensaver: please disable "This version of XScreenSaver is very old! Please upgrade!" message Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 13:04:18 +0200

It is not a joke, I've also noticed the message today, I was writing a but report when I've noticed it was already reported. Since today xscreensaver tells debian users that "your distro is doing you a disservice. Build from source".

Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Tormod Volden <debian.tormod@gmail.com> :

Bug#819703 ; Package xscreensaver . (Fri, 01 Apr 2016 11:54:16 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Acknowledgement sent to Richard Jasmin <frazzledjazz@gmail.com> :

Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Tormod Volden <debian.tormod@gmail.com> . (Fri, 01 Apr 2016 11:54:16 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Message #39 received at 819703@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Richard Jasmin <frazzledjazz@gmail.com> To: Debian Bug Tracking System <819703@bugs.debian.org> Subject: Re: xscreensaver: please disable "This version of XScreenSaver is very old! Please upgrade!" message Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2016 06:42:01 -0500

Package: xscreensaver Version: 5.30-1+deb8u1 Followup-For: Bug #819703 Dear Maintainer, I have a better solution. Dispense with the horse shit. Either provide a upstream version to be packaged(and backported) or permanently remove the offending code(and warnings). and as per upstream: needs to be backported or pushed into updates server. both may be options, but when selected the updates are EXPECTED. At least this update is NOT PRESENT. Thats a packaging fault. I know of QT5(core) and Mono (v4) updates missing also. And debs are available, so dont gimmie that line. Nobody asked for acenine response from ANY dev, and surely such is COMPLETELY unwarranted. If you want your package included in distributions, make the concessions necessary to maintain the codebase with said. Otherwise, either DONT OFFER the code, or DONT package it further. Drop it from the repos if the maintainer wont comply. That should be a debian core policy. I know several here are also acenine (with reports) or are acenine C devs that dont give a flying eff about anyone, but thats the wrong mentality to take with anyone. More than half of the time said acenine devs have no clue what they are coding. Yes, I can put my code where my mouth is, despite my unpopular view on C. Clearly bug reports and handling is yall policy, but being the nature of "whats and whos" involved these reports should be taken more seriously than frivious borsht.Its not about liking the bug reporter, its about dealing with the bug. Maybe its not so serious, MAYBE ITS WORSE. Clearly someone needs to get thier ass in gear. -- System Information: Debian Release: 8.3 APT prefers stable-updates APT policy: (500, 'stable-updates'), (500, 'stable') Architecture: amd64 (x86_64) Foreign Architectures: i386 Kernel: Linux 3.16.0-4-amd64 (SMP w/8 CPU cores) Locale: LANG=en_US.UTF-8, LC_CTYPE=en_US.UTF-8 (charmap=UTF-8) Shell: /bin/sh linked to /bin/dash Init: systemd (via /run/systemd/system) Versions of packages xscreensaver depends on: ii libatk1.0-0 2.14.0-1 ii libc6 2.19-18+deb8u3 ii libcairo2 1.14.0-2.1 ii libfontconfig1 2.11.0-6.3 ii libfreetype6 2.5.2-3+deb8u1 ii libgdk-pixbuf2.0-0 2.31.1-2+deb8u4 ii libglade2-0 1:2.6.4-2 ii libglib2.0-0 2.42.1-1 ii libgtk2.0-0 2.24.25-3 ii libice6 2:1.0.9-1+b1 ii libpam0g 1.1.8-3.1+deb8u1 ii libpango-1.0-0 1.36.8-3 ii libpangocairo-1.0-0 1.36.8-3 ii libpangoft2-1.0-0 1.36.8-3 ii libsm6 2:1.2.2-1+b1 ii libx11-6 2:1.6.2-3 ii libxext6 2:1.3.3-1 ii libxi6 2:1.7.4-1+b2 ii libxinerama1 2:1.1.3-1+b1 ii libxml2 2.9.1+dfsg1-5+deb8u1 ii libxmu6 2:1.1.2-1 ii libxpm4 1:3.5.11-1+b1 ii libxrandr2 2:1.4.2-1+b1 ii libxrender1 1:0.9.8-1+b1 ii libxt6 1:1.1.4-1+b1 ii libxxf86vm1 1:1.1.3-1+b1 ii xscreensaver-data 5.30-1+deb8u1 Versions of packages xscreensaver recommends: ii libjpeg-turbo-progs [libjpeg-progs] 1:1.3.1-12 ii perl [perl5] 5.20.2-3+deb8u4 ii wamerican [wordlist] 7.1-1 Versions of packages xscreensaver suggests: ii chromium [www-browser] 49.0.2623.108-1~deb8u1 ii dillo [www-browser] 3.0.4-2+b1 ii elinks [www-browser] 0.12~pre6-5+b2 ii fortune-mod [fortune] 1:1.99.1-7 pn gdm3 | kdm-gdmcompat <none> ii iceweasel [www-browser] 38.7.1esr-1~deb8u1 ii konqueror [www-browser] 4:4.14.2-1 ii links2 [www-browser] 2.8-2+b3 ii lynx-cur [www-browser] 2.8.9dev1-2+deb8u1 ii opera-stable [www-browser] 36.0.2130.46 pn qcam | streamer <none> ii w3m [www-browser] 0.5.3-19 pn xdaliclock <none> pn xfishtank <none> ii xscreensaver-gl 5.30-1+deb8u1 -- no debconf information

Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Tormod Volden <debian.tormod@gmail.com> :

Bug#819703 ; Package xscreensaver . (Fri, 01 Apr 2016 12:27:06 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Acknowledgement sent to Sven Geggus <lists@fuchsschwanzdomain.de> :

Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Tormod Volden <debian.tormod@gmail.com> . (Fri, 01 Apr 2016 12:27:06 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Message #44 received at 819703@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Sven Geggus <lists@fuchsschwanzdomain.de> To: 819703@bugs.debian.org Subject: ReproducibleBuilds? Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 14:24:57 +0200

Hello, looking how I can try to avoid pissing off dozens of my users with this message I have been looking at the code and came to the conclusion, that this miss-feature will certainly also kill ReproducibleBuilds. So bug 819595 might be related. Regards Sven

Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Tormod Volden <debian.tormod@gmail.com> :

Bug#819703 ; Package xscreensaver . (Fri, 01 Apr 2016 12:33:03 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Acknowledgement sent to Sven Geggus <lists@fuchsschwanzdomain.de> :

Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Tormod Volden <debian.tormod@gmail.com> . (Fri, 01 Apr 2016 12:33:03 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Message #49 received at 819703@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Sven Geggus <lists@fuchsschwanzdomain.de> To: 819703@bugs.debian.org Subject: Re: Bug#819703: Info received (ReproducibleBuilds?) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 14:32:13 +0200

Please ignore my last report. As the date in questions seems to be the date of the last modification to the source code rather than a build date it will not harm ReproducibleBuilds. Sven

Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Tormod Volden <debian.tormod@gmail.com> :

Bug#819703 ; Package xscreensaver . (Fri, 01 Apr 2016 12:42:03 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Acknowledgement sent to Santiago Vila <sanvila@unex.es> :

Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Tormod Volden <debian.tormod@gmail.com> . (Fri, 01 Apr 2016 12:42:04 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Message #54 received at 819703@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Santiago Vila <sanvila@unex.es> To: 819703@bugs.debian.org Subject: Re: Bug#819703: xscreensaver: please disable "This version of XScreenSaver is very old! Please upgrade!" message Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 14:38:29 +0200 (CEST)

Hello. At the risk of stating the obvious, I'm going to reply to this message from the author, since it seems he reads the bugs reported to Debian. On Thu, 31 Mar 2016, Jamie Zawinski wrote: > In the time it took me to read your whine, you could have upgraded > your incredibly-out-of-date computer and saved us all the grief. Actually, that's not necessarily the case. Packages in Debian stable only change when they have security bugs (via security.debian.org), or (in certain cases) bugs of serious severity, of the type that make them unsuitable for release. Just "being old" is not a bug in itself, so it's not a reason good enough to upgrade, or a reason to ask the user that he/she has to upgrade. Upgrading *all* the packages in Debian is quite easy: "apt-get upgrade". You are absolutely right that it would take very little time to do that, but not so right if you blidnly assume that a new package somehow "has" to be available when doing "apt-get upgrade" when you are using Debian stable. Because stable is frozen and does not change except for security fixes and very serious bugs. Now, let's see what's wrong with old versions. If you don't want to receive bugs about old versions, we understand that completely. We don't like to receive bugs about old versions either. The perfect bug submitter is the one that looks for the latest version to confirm that it's not fixed yet. To not bother upstream authors with reports about old versions, we have our own bug tracking system. In theory, bugs about old versions would never be forwarded to the author (via email, I mean). > I find your request to be obnoxious and I wish to not have read it, > but sadly we don't always get what we want. If, as it seems, the author voluntarily subscribes to our bug tracking system to receive all the bugs reported to Debian, that's fine (in fact, the best upstream maintainers are the ones that do that). But you can't then complain that you have to read bugs about old version, that would be quite contradictory indeed. Subscribing to a package or to a bug is like a mailing list, it's either all or nothing. If bugs about old version really bother you, you could just ignore them. Nobody will ask you to fix something that it's already fixed. Now, let's see why this warning message is not the way to go. I have more than 1300 packages installed in the system, and I suspect that most Debian users have a lot more. If each and every of those packages sent me a warning just because they are "old", Debian stable would become unusable and definitely not nice. And we don't want that, so I also second that this warning message should be removed from the version in stable as well. Thanks.

Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Tormod Volden <debian.tormod@gmail.com> :

Bug#819703 ; Package xscreensaver . (Fri, 01 Apr 2016 16:15:06 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Acknowledgement sent to Samuel Thibault <sthibault@debian.org> :

Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Tormod Volden <debian.tormod@gmail.com> . (Fri, 01 Apr 2016 16:15:06 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Message #59 received at 819703@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Samuel Thibault <sthibault@debian.org> To: Jamie Zawinski <jwz@jwz.org>, 819703@bugs.debian.org Subject: Re: Bug#819703: xscreensaver: please disable "This version of XScreenSaver is very old! Please upgrade!" message Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 18:09:53 +0200

Jamie Zawinski, on Thu 31 Mar 2016 21:24:11 -0700, wrote: > In the time it took me to read your whine, you could have upgraded your incredibly-out-of-date computer and saved us all the grief. Incredibly-out-of-date? I have hit the same exact bug this morning, while installing Debian Jessie, which is the latest Debian stable release. It comes with version 5.30 of xscreensaver, which was released in september 2014, not even 2 years ago... If you consider 2 years "incredibly-out of date", then do not follow Debian bugs, since Debian is released about every 2 years... As said in another mail in the thread, Debian users are supposed to report bugs to the Debian BTS, to save you the old-bug reports. Then it's up to Debian to backport whatever fix is needed if it feels to, without upstream being involved at all. The current check in the source code is 18 months, perhaps Debian could patch it to raise it to 30 months, to cover the stable freeze+release period? Samuel

Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Tormod Volden <debian.tormod@gmail.com> :

Bug#819703 ; Package xscreensaver . (Fri, 01 Apr 2016 16:15:08 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Acknowledgement sent to Samuel Thibault <sthibault@debian.org> :

Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Tormod Volden <debian.tormod@gmail.com> . (Fri, 01 Apr 2016 16:15:08 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Message #64 received at 819703@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Samuel Thibault <sthibault@debian.org> To: 819703@bugs.debian.org Subject: Re: Bug#819703: xscreensaver: please disable "This version of XScreenSaver is very old! Please upgrade!" message Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 18:11:15 +0200

Samuel Thibault, on Fri 01 Apr 2016 18:09:53 +0200, wrote: > I have hit the same exact bug this morning, while installing Debian > Jessie, which is the latest Debian stable release. (That gives a really bad impression: Jessie is just one year old, we told the installer to install the XFCE desktop, and the first thing we got after rebooting from the installer was that fat warning...) Samuel

Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Tormod Volden <debian.tormod@gmail.com> :

Bug#819703 ; Package xscreensaver . (Fri, 01 Apr 2016 16:33:04 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Acknowledgement sent to Alexander Gerasiov <gq@debian.org> :

Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Tormod Volden <debian.tormod@gmail.com> . (Fri, 01 Apr 2016 16:33:04 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Message #69 received at 819703@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Alexander Gerasiov <gq@debian.org> To: Samuel Thibault <sthibault@debian.org> Cc: Jamie Zawinski <jwz@jwz.org>, 819703@bugs.debian.org Subject: Re: Bug#819703: xscreensaver: please disable "This version of XScreenSaver is very old! Please upgrade!" message Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 19:21:50 +0300

Hello Samuel, On Fri, 1 Apr 2016 18:09:53 +0200 Samuel Thibault <sthibault@debian.org> wrote: > The current check in the source code is 18 months, perhaps Debian > could patch it to raise it to 30 months, to cover the stable > freeze+release period? As for me, I'd suggest to turn this check off at all. -- Best regards, Alexander Gerasiov Contacts: e-mail: gq@cs.msu.su Homepage: http://gerasiov.net Skype: gerasiov PGP fingerprint: 04B5 9D90 DF7C C2AB CD49 BAEA CA87 E9E8 2AAC 33F1

Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Tormod Volden <debian.tormod@gmail.com> :

Bug#819703 ; Package xscreensaver . (Fri, 01 Apr 2016 16:57:07 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Acknowledgement sent to Holger Levsen <holger@layer-acht.org> :

Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Tormod Volden <debian.tormod@gmail.com> . (Fri, 01 Apr 2016 16:57:07 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Message #74 received at 819703@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Holger Levsen <holger@layer-acht.org> To: 819703@bugs.debian.org Subject: this warning and/or the package should go away Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 12:51:45 -0400

Hi, IMO this warning should be patched away for the stable releases at least. For the future I think either the same should be done or the package dropped from Debian, as per the authors wishes. -- cheers, Holger, switching to i3lock today

Information forwarded to debian-bugs-dist@lists.debian.org, Tormod Volden <debian.tormod@gmail.com> :

Bug#819703 ; Package xscreensaver . (Fri, 01 Apr 2016 16:57:10 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Acknowledgement sent to Michael Biebl <biebl@debian.org> :

Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Tormod Volden <debian.tormod@gmail.com> . (Fri, 01 Apr 2016 16:57:10 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Message #79 received at 819703@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Michael Biebl <biebl@debian.org> To: 819703@bugs.debian.org, Yves-Alexis Perez <corsac@debian.org> Subject: Re: Bug#819703: xscreensaver: please disable "This version of XScreenSaver is very old! Please upgrade!" message Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 18:54:34 +0200

On Fri, 1 Apr 2016 18:11:15 +0200 Samuel Thibault <sthibault@debian.org> wrote: > Samuel Thibault, on Fri 01 Apr 2016 18:09:53 +0200, wrote: > > I have hit the same exact bug this morning, while installing Debian > > Jessie, which is the latest Debian stable release. > > (That gives a really bad impression: Jessie is just one year old, we > told the installer to install the XFCE desktop, and the first thing we > got after rebooting from the installer was that fat warning...) Maybe the best course of action would be, if xfce didn't install xscreensaver by default (but would choose a more lightweight / better integrated alternative). -- Why is it that all of the instruments seeking intelligent life in the universe are pointed away from Earth?

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Bug#819703 ; Package xscreensaver . (Fri, 01 Apr 2016 17:15:06 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Acknowledgement sent to Jamie Zawinski <jwz@jwz.org> :

Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Tormod Volden <debian.tormod@gmail.com> . (Fri, 01 Apr 2016 17:15:07 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Message #84 received at 819703@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Jamie Zawinski <jwz@jwz.org> To: 819703@bugs.debian.org Subject: Re: Bug#819703: xscreensaver: please disable "This version of XScreenSaver is very old! Please upgrade!" message Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 10:10:40 -0700

For those of you who can't be bothered to read the code, here's what the comment says. I stand by my words here: If you are considering removing this warning, then I ask that instead, you remove the XScreenSaver software from Debian entirely. I believe Gnome-Screensaver will be more to your liking anyway. /* If you are in here because you're planning on disabling this warning before redistributing my software, please don't. I sincerely request that you do one of the following: 1: leave this code intact and this warning in place, -OR- 2: Remove xscreensaver from your distribution. I would seriously prefer that you not distribute my software at all than that you distribute one version and then never update it for years. I am *constantly* getting email from users reporting bugs that have been fixed for literally years who have no idea that the software they are running is years out of date. Yes, it would be great if we lived in the ideal world where people checked that they were running the latest release before they report a bug, but we don't. To most people, "running the latest release" is synonymous with "running the latest release that my distro packages for me." When they even bother to tell me what version they're running, I say, "That version is three years old!", and they say "But this is the latest version my distro ships". Then I say, "your distro sucks", and they say "but I don't know how to compile from source, herp derp I eat paste", and *everybody* goes away unhappy. It wastes an enormous amount of my time, and kind of makes me regret ever having released this software in the first place. So seriously. I ask that if you're planning on disabling this obsolescence warning, that you instead just remove xscreensaver from your distro entirely. Everybody will be happier that way. Check out gnome-screensaver instead, I understand it's really nice. Of course, my license allows you to ignore me and do whatever the fuck you want, but as the author, I hope you will have the common courtesy of complying with my request. Thank you! jwz, 2014 */

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Bug#819703 ; Package xscreensaver . (Fri, 01 Apr 2016 19:30:04 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Acknowledgement sent to Yves-Alexis Perez <corsac@debian.org> :

Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Tormod Volden <debian.tormod@gmail.com> . (Fri, 01 Apr 2016 19:30:04 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Message #89 received at 819703@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Yves-Alexis Perez <corsac@debian.org> To: Michael Biebl <biebl@debian.org>, 819703@bugs.debian.org Cc: Samuel Thibault <sthibault@debian.org> Subject: Re: Bug#819703: xscreensaver: please disable "This version of XScreenSaver is very old! Please upgrade!" message Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2016 21:26:23 +0200

On ven., 2016-04-01 at 18:54 +0200, Michael Biebl wrote: > On Fri, 1 Apr 2016 18:11:15 +0200 Samuel Thibault <sthibault@debian.org> > wrote: > > > > Samuel Thibault, on Fri 01 Apr 2016 18:09:53 +0200, wrote: > > > > > > I have hit the same exact bug this morning, while installing Debian > > > Jessie, which is the latest Debian stable release. > > (That gives a really bad impression: Jessie is just one year old, we > > told the installer to install the XFCE desktop, and the first thing we > > got after rebooting from the installer was that fat warning...) > Maybe the best course of action would be, if xfce didn't install > xscreensaver by default (but would choose a more lightweight / better > integrated alternative). > That's definitely something to consider for stretch. I wasn't really willing to do that before because without having an Xfce locker I preferred staying with the common ground, but I also had bad interaction with the upstream developer and am not really interested in having more interactions. Right now, there's a way to switch to something else, which is light-locker, so it might be a good idea to do that indeed. I'll update the tasksel package with that in mind. Regards, -- Yves-Alexis

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Bug#819703 ; Package xscreensaver . (Fri, 01 Apr 2016 20:36:04 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Acknowledgement sent to Adam Borowski <kilobyte@angband.pl> :

Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Tormod Volden <debian.tormod@gmail.com> . (Fri, 01 Apr 2016 20:36:04 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Message #94 received at 819703@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Adam Borowski <kilobyte@angband.pl> To: 819703@bugs.debian.org Subject: Re: Bug#819703: xscreensaver: please disable "This version of XScreenSaver is very old! Please upgrade!" message Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 22:33:31 +0200

On Fri, Apr 01, 2016 at 09:26:23PM +0200, Yves-Alexis Perez wrote: > On ven., 2016-04-01 at 18:54 +0200, Michael Biebl wrote: > > On Fri, 1 Apr 2016 18:11:15 +0200 Samuel Thibault <sthibault@debian.org> > > > (That gives a really bad impression: Jessie is just one year old, we > > > told the installer to install the XFCE desktop, and the first thing we > > > got after rebooting from the installer was that fat warning...) I wonder, perhaps this could warrant pushing an expedited update somehow? A popup blocking Xsession startup on every login shows Debian in a pretty bad light. Yeah, it's not a data-loss bug merely a bad PR bug but still... > > Maybe the best course of action would be, if xfce didn't install > > xscreensaver by default (but would choose a more lightweight / better > > integrated alternative). > > That's definitely something to consider for stretch. I wasn't really willing > to do that before because without having an Xfce locker I preferred staying > with the common ground, but I also had bad interaction with the upstream > developer and am not really interested in having more interactions. > > Right now, there's a way to switch to something else, which is light-locker, > so it might be a good idea to do that indeed. I'll update the tasksel package > with that in mind. light-locker has a hard dependency on lightdm, and if I read its description right, it's impossible to remove. I don't think we should tie xfce to a single display manager. It also does weird VT switching that's disconcerting enough to be called a bug. I took a look at alternatives: * gnome-screensaver has OMGWTFBBQ-level insanity that makes it useless for anyone but Gnome3 lovers * mate-screensaver isn't that much better (jwz is quite right...) * cinnamon-screensaver is surprisingly sane. Its depends/recommends would need trimming for reasonable use outside Cinnamon but I guess that's a matter of asking Cinnamon guys nicely. After all, it wasn't envisioned to be used elsewhere... * i3lock and slock[suckless-tools] lack a GUI Another option could be forking xscreensaver, it could use some trimming and fixing (for things where jwz disagreed). (I don't volunteer here, though -- I see a bunch of things I could help with drive-by patching, but no full maintenance, as I don't know xlib, details of DPMS handling or such). So, other than the obvious "return 0;" fix in jessie, I'd recommend not being hasty and think things through before updating all tasks, etc. Meow! -- A tit a day keeps the vet away.

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Bug#819703 ; Package xscreensaver . (Fri, 01 Apr 2016 20:39:03 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Acknowledgement sent to Michael Biebl <biebl@debian.org> :

Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Tormod Volden <debian.tormod@gmail.com> . (Fri, 01 Apr 2016 20:39:03 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Message #99 received at 819703@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Michael Biebl <biebl@debian.org> To: 819703@bugs.debian.org, FTP masters <ftpmaster@ftp-master.debian.org> Subject: Re: Bug#819703: xscreensaver: please disable "This version of XScreenSaver is very old! Please upgrade!" message Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 22:37:00 +0200

On Fri, 1 Apr 2016 10:10:40 -0700 Jamie Zawinski <jwz@jwz.org> wrote: > For those of you who can't be bothered to read the code, here's what the comment says. > > I stand by my words here: If you are considering removing this warning, then I ask that instead, you remove the XScreenSaver software from Debian entirely. I believe Gnome-Screensaver will be more to your liking anyway. Sounds like we should do that indeed. CCing our ftp-masters. -- Why is it that all of the instruments seeking intelligent life in the universe are pointed away from Earth?

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Bug#819703 ; Package xscreensaver . (Fri, 01 Apr 2016 20:45:10 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Acknowledgement sent to "Paul R. Tagliamonte" <paultag@gmail.com> :

Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Tormod Volden <debian.tormod@gmail.com> . (Fri, 01 Apr 2016 20:45:10 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Message #104 received at 819703@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: "Paul R. Tagliamonte" <paultag@gmail.com> To: Michael Biebl <biebl@debian.org> Cc: 819703@bugs.debian.org, FTP masters <ftpmaster@ftp-master.debian.org> Subject: Re: Bug#819703: xscreensaver: please disable "This version of XScreenSaver is very old! Please upgrade!" message Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 16:43:11 -0400

Sadsies. xscreensaver is my screensaver of choice. Sounds fine, let's file a RoM Cheers, Paul On Fri, Apr 1, 2016 at 4:37 PM, Michael Biebl <biebl@debian.org> wrote: > On Fri, 1 Apr 2016 10:10:40 -0700 Jamie Zawinski <jwz@jwz.org> wrote: > > For those of you who can't be bothered to read the code, here's what the > comment says. > > > > I stand by my words here: If you are considering removing this warning, > then I ask that instead, you remove the XScreenSaver software from Debian > entirely. I believe Gnome-Screensaver will be more to your liking anyway. > > Sounds like we should do that indeed. > CCing our ftp-masters. > > > -- > Why is it that all of the instruments seeking intelligent life in the > universe are pointed away from Earth? > > -- :wq

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Bug#819703 ; Package xscreensaver . (Fri, 01 Apr 2016 21:57:03 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Acknowledgement sent to Yves-Alexis Perez <corsac@debian.org> :

Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Tormod Volden <debian.tormod@gmail.com> . (Fri, 01 Apr 2016 21:57:03 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Message #109 received at 819703@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Yves-Alexis Perez <corsac@debian.org> To: 819703@bugs.debian.org, Adam Borowski <kilobyte@angband.pl> Subject: Re: Bug#819703: xscreensaver: please disable "This version of XScreenSaver is very old! Please upgrade!" message Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2016 23:52:24 +0200

[note: if you don't CC: me, then I don't get your mail] On Fri, 1 Apr 2016 22:33:31 +0200 Adam Borowski <kilobyte@angband.pl> wrote: > On Fri, Apr 01, 2016 at 09:26:23PM +0200, Yves-Alexis Perez wrote: > > That's definitely something to consider for stretch. I wasn't really willing > > to do that before because without having an Xfce locker I preferred staying > > with the common ground, but I also had bad interaction with the upstream > > developer and am not really interested in having more interactions. > > > > Right now, there's a way to switch to something else, which is light-locker, > > so it might be a good idea to do that indeed. I'll update the tasksel package > > with that in mind. > > light-locker has a hard dependency on lightdm, and if I read its description > right, it's impossible to remove. I don't think we should tie xfce to a > single display manager. It also does weird VT switching that's > disconcerting enough to be called a bug. Xfce is not tied to lightdm or light-locker. Current situation is: - task-xfce-desktop depends on xfce4, lightdm - xfce4 depends on xfce4-session - xfce4-session recommends xscreensaver I've switched that (for stretch) to: - task-xfce-desktop depends on xfce4, lightdm, light-locker - xfce4 depends on xfce4-session - xfce4-session recommends light-locker So you'll have lightdm + light-locker by default when you select Xfce desktop when installing, but you can remove it and if you manually install xfce4 and don't install recommends you won't have it either. Regards, -- Yves-Alexis

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Bug#819703 ; Package xscreensaver . (Sat, 02 Apr 2016 00:15:11 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Acknowledgement sent to Jamil Said Jr. <jamilsaid@hotmail.com> :

Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Tormod Volden <debian.tormod@gmail.com> . (Sat, 02 Apr 2016 00:15:11 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Message #114 received at 819703@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Jamil Said Jr. <jamilsaid@hotmail.com> To: <819703@bugs.debian.org> Subject: LXDE also affected by this Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 17:11:29 -0700

Hello all, I want to bring to your attention that LXDE is also affect by this. I am also getting this disruptive and rude "warnings" every time that I start my (fully updated, stable version) Debian Jessie LXDE computers. It seems that the author does not understand (or doesn't care) that if you use stable versions of Debian (and other distributions), it is because you are willing to trade off "cutting edge" for stability. There are many, many scenarios where the stable version is much preferred over the "latest"; as a matter of fact, I almost always use and recommend stable versions. I work with people who are quite "beginners" at using computers; many are beginners at the level of not knowing to send email or even double-clicking a .desktop file to launch an application - warnings like those implemented on xscreensaver are bound to "scare" and "confuse" users of various levels of knowledge, specially beginners. In addition to that (as others commented), such warnings certainly make the OS less usable, and also cast a bad light on the EXCELLENT Debian stable. This should be against policy, can you imagine if all Debian packages start showing this kind of "warnings"? The stable versions would be a mess. I pledge to you to change the current (and future) xscreensaver versions on Debian stable to make this "warnings" go away, as soon as possible. Respectfully, Jamil Said

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Bug#819703 ; Package xscreensaver . (Sat, 02 Apr 2016 01:42:03 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Acknowledgement sent to Jamil Said Jr. <jamilsaid@hotmail.com> :

Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Tormod Volden <debian.tormod@gmail.com> . (Sat, 02 Apr 2016 01:42:05 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Message #119 received at 819703@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Jamil Said Jr. <jamilsaid@hotmail.com> To: <819703@bugs.debian.org> Subject: LXDE also affected by this Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 18:39:38 -0700

I meant: "I plead to you to change the current (and future) xscreensaver versions on Debian stable to make this "warnings" go away, as soon as possible." Lol! Cheers, Jamil Said

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Bug#819703 ; Package xscreensaver . (Sat, 02 Apr 2016 02:57:04 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Acknowledgement sent to Daniel Shahaf <danielsh@apache.org> :

Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Tormod Volden <debian.tormod@gmail.com> . (Sat, 02 Apr 2016 02:57:04 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Message #124 received at 819703@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Daniel Shahaf <danielsh@apache.org> To: Axel Beckert <abe@debian.org>, 819703@bugs.debian.org Subject: Re: Bug#819703: xscreensaver: please disable "This version of XScreenSaver is very old! Please upgrade!" message Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2016 02:53:30 +0000

Control: found -1 5.30-1+deb8u1 Control: notfound -1 5.34-1 Axel Beckert wrote on Fri, Apr 01, 2016 at 09:54:39 +0200: > Daniel Shahaf wrote: > > P.S. I'm reporting this against the version in stable/jessie, > > Sorry, you didn't. I've added the version (initially) in Jessie now. Good catch, thank you. I observed the prompts in the jessie-security version but did not test the sid version; metadata updated accordingly. > > diff --git a/driver/prefs.c b/driver/prefs.c > > index 55bac7b..f9f96c3 100644 > > --- a/driver/prefs.c > > +++ b/driver/prefs.c > > @@ -1663,6 +1663,8 @@ stop_the_insanity (saver_preferences *p) > > Bool > > senescent_p (void) > > { > > + return 0; > > + > > /* If you are in here because you're planning on disabling this warning > > before redistributing my software, please don't. > > That doesn't fix the XFCE menu warning, too, right? For future reference, this patch eliminates both of the prompts the original report mentions. (senescent_p() must return true for any of the warnings to be displayed.) To clarify: I'm simply stating a technical fact about the patch; I'm not advocating one way or the other regarding whether the package should be removed from stretch, since that's a political issue, as opposed a technical one. (jwz: the package cannot be removed from jessie and earlier; it can only be removed from stretch and later.) That said, for what it's worth, I think it would be unfortunate if the package is removed from stretch: I run stable, it's a tradeoff I consciously made, and there is no reason for me to be barred from using software written by people who use their computers differently than I do. Cheers, Daniel (I wonder if I would be able to continue using unicode-screensaver under light-locker, should xscreensaver be removed...)

No longer marked as found in versions xscreensaver/5.34-1. Request was from Daniel Shahaf <danielsh@apache.org> to 819703-submit@bugs.debian.org . (Sat, 02 Apr 2016 02:57:04 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

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Bug#819703 ; Package xscreensaver . (Sat, 02 Apr 2016 03:09:06 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Acknowledgement sent to Holger Levsen <holger@layer-acht.org> :

Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Tormod Volden <debian.tormod@gmail.com> . (Sat, 02 Apr 2016 03:09:06 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Message #131 received at 819703@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Holger Levsen <holger@layer-acht.org> To: Daniel Shahaf <danielsh@apache.org> Cc: 819703@bugs.debian.org Subject: Re: Bug#819703: xscreensaver: please disable "This version of XScreenSaver is very old! Please upgrade!" message Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 23:04:28 -0400

Hi, On Sat, Apr 02, 2016 at 02:53:30AM +0000, Daniel Shahaf wrote: > Control: notfound -1 5.34-1 the bug is present in that version. The timebomb just hasn't been triggered yet. (Also for fixing this in stable (and oldstable) it needs to be fixed / not be present in unstable first.) -- cheers, Holger

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Bug#819703 ; Package xscreensaver . (Sat, 02 Apr 2016 03:12:03 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Acknowledgement sent to Daniel Shahaf <danielsh@apache.org> :

Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Tormod Volden <debian.tormod@gmail.com> . (Sat, 02 Apr 2016 03:12:03 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Message #136 received at 819703@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Daniel Shahaf <danielsh@apache.org> To: Holger Levsen <holger@layer-acht.org> Cc: 819703@bugs.debian.org Subject: Re: Bug#819703: xscreensaver: please disable "This version of XScreenSaver is very old! Please upgrade!" message Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2016 03:09:48 +0000

Control: found -1 5.34-1 Holger Levsen wrote on Fri, Apr 01, 2016 at 23:04:28 -0400: > Hi, > > On Sat, Apr 02, 2016 at 02:53:30AM +0000, Daniel Shahaf wrote: > > Control: notfound -1 5.34-1 > > the bug is present in that version. The timebomb just hasn't been triggered > yet. Okay; metadata restored. (I had removed it because I had only confirmed 5.34-1 was affected by code inspection, as opposed to compiling/running it and observing the message being displayed.) Thanks, Daniel

Marked as found in versions xscreensaver/5.34-1. Request was from Daniel Shahaf <danielsh@apache.org> to 819703-submit@bugs.debian.org . (Sat, 02 Apr 2016 03:12:03 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

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Bug#819703 ; Package xscreensaver . (Sat, 02 Apr 2016 03:36:04 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Acknowledgement sent to Adam Borowski <kilobyte@angband.pl> :

Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Tormod Volden <debian.tormod@gmail.com> . (Sat, 02 Apr 2016 03:36:04 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Message #143 received at 819703@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Adam Borowski <kilobyte@angband.pl> To: 819703@bugs.debian.org Subject: Re: Bug#819703: xscreensaver: please disable "This version of XScreenSaver is very old! Please upgrade!" message Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2016 05:33:52 +0200

On Fri, Apr 01, 2016 at 11:04:28PM -0400, Holger Levsen wrote: > On Sat, Apr 02, 2016 at 02:53:30AM +0000, Daniel Shahaf wrote: > > Control: notfound -1 5.34-1 > > the bug is present in that version. The timebomb just hasn't been triggered > yet. For the record, the timebomb for 5.34 will go off on 2017-04-01, ie, shortly after stretch's expected release date. > (Also for fixing this in stable it needs to be fixed / not be present in > unstable first.) Why? The fix is a trivial technical matter (Daniel's one-line patch in the very first mail) and no one questions what to do for stable. It's the political issue in unstable what needs deliberation. And it looks like removal is more likely to happen than forking, so the problem might be never fixed in unstable. > and oldstable The timebomb was introduced in 5.21, oldstable has 5.15, o-o-stable 5.11, so neither is affected. -- A tit a day keeps the vet away.

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Bug#819703 ; Package xscreensaver . (Sat, 02 Apr 2016 03:51:03 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Acknowledgement sent to Peter Nowee <peter@peternowee.com> :

Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Tormod Volden <debian.tormod@gmail.com> . (Sat, 02 Apr 2016 03:51:04 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Message #148 received at 819703@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Peter Nowee <peter@peternowee.com> To: 819703@bugs.debian.org Cc: Yves-Alexis Perez <corsac@debian.org>, FTP masters <ftpmaster@ftp-master.debian.org> Subject: Re: Bug#819703: xscreensaver: please disable "This version of XScreenSaver is very old! Please upgrade!" message Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2016 05:36:26 +0200

I do not agree with the removal of the xscreensaver package. Thankfully, when writing down his wish regarding this particular piece of code, the author made sure to write that he did not mean to derogate the user freedoms provided by the license he chose: > Of course, my license allows you to ignore me and do whatever the > fuck you want, but as the author, I hope you will have the common > courtesy of complying with my request. He just confirmed to us that he still stands by those words as well. So, in the end, he values user freedom above his wish that we either keep the warning or remove the software from our distribution. This deserves our respect and gratitude. Considering the issue at hand, I think we should exercise that user freedom now by disabling the warning while keeping the software in our distribution. For jessie/stable I think there is even no other choice. At the same time, we could try to make up for not having the "common courtesy" he expected from us. For example, we could mention "Bug reports:" with a Debian URL above his URL in the About dialog. I think this would greatly reduce the number of bug reports on old versions directed to him, which he named as the main reason behind his original wish. I hope this policy can then be extended to keep xscreensaver in future Debian releases as well.

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Bug#819703 ; Package xscreensaver . (Sat, 02 Apr 2016 04:09:03 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Acknowledgement sent to Holger Levsen <holger@layer-acht.org> :

Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Tormod Volden <debian.tormod@gmail.com> . (Sat, 02 Apr 2016 04:09:03 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Message #153 received at 819703@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Holger Levsen <holger@layer-acht.org> To: 819703@bugs.debian.org Subject: Re: Bug#819703: xscreensaver: please disable "This version of XScreenSaver is very old! Please upgrade!" message Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2016 00:04:06 -0400

Hi, On Sat, Apr 02, 2016 at 05:33:52AM +0200, Adam Borowski wrote: > > (Also for fixing this in stable it needs to be fixed / not be present in > > unstable first.) > Why? because that's the usual policy for fixing issues in stable, which was also confirmed for this particular issue by a SRM on #debian-release today. > [...] it looks > like removal is more likely to happen than forking, so the problem might > be never fixed in unstable. Removing the package from unstable will cause the bug not be present in unstable so that's an ok solution from the POV of getting it fixed in stable. > The timebomb was introduced in 5.21, oldstable has 5.15, o-o-stable 5.11, so > neither is affected. Thanks for the clarification. (Also for checking when it will hit 5.34!) -- cheers, Holger

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Bug#819703 ; Package xscreensaver . (Sat, 02 Apr 2016 04:09:05 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Acknowledgement sent to Jamie Zawinski <jwz@jwz.org> :

Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Tormod Volden <debian.tormod@gmail.com> . (Sat, 02 Apr 2016 04:09:05 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Message #158 received at 819703@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Jamie Zawinski <jwz@jwz.org> To: Peter Nowee <peter@peternowee.com>, 819703@bugs.debian.org Subject: Re: Bug#819703: xscreensaver: please disable "This version of XScreenSaver is very old! Please upgrade!" message Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 21:04:45 -0700

Please remove XScreenSaver from Debian. Peter Nowee, please take your sanctimony and go fuck yourself with it.

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Bug#819703 ; Package xscreensaver . (Sat, 02 Apr 2016 05:33:03 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Acknowledgement sent to Peter Nowee <peter@peternowee.com> :

Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Tormod Volden <debian.tormod@gmail.com> . (Sat, 02 Apr 2016 05:33:03 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Message #163 received at 819703@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Peter Nowee <peter@peternowee.com> To: Jamie Zawinski <jwz@jwz.org>, 819703@bugs.debian.org Subject: Re: Bug#819703: xscreensaver: please disable "This version of XScreenSaver is very old! Please upgrade!" message Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2016 07:31:07 +0200

On Fri, Apr 01, 2016 at 09:04:45PM -0700, Jamie Zawinski wrote: > Please remove XScreenSaver from Debian. > > Peter Nowee, please take your sanctimony and go fuck yourself with it. > Was I wrong when I said that you value user freedom above your wish that we either keep the warning or remove your software from Debian? I mean, you are the one giving mixed signals here: First telling us we can use, modify and distribute your work, then asking us to "please" not modify this and "please" not distribute that. Just change your license if this is really as important to you as your cursing suggests.

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Bug#819703 ; Package xscreensaver . (Sat, 02 Apr 2016 05:39:07 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Acknowledgement sent to Jamie Zawinski <jwz@jwz.org> :

Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Tormod Volden <debian.tormod@gmail.com> . (Sat, 02 Apr 2016 05:39:07 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Message #168 received at 819703@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Jamie Zawinski <jwz@jwz.org> To: 819703@bugs.debian.org Subject: Re: Bug#819703: xscreensaver: please disable "This version of XScreenSaver is very old! Please upgrade!" message Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 22:37:35 -0700

Peter Nowee wrote: > Was I wrong when I said that you value user freedom above your wish > that we either keep the warning or remove your software from Debian? Awesome, you seem to be one of those people who think "if it's legal, it must be right." That's a common toxin in the software industry these days. I guess you want Debian to be the kind of operation that uses the work of others while blatantly and explicitly ignoring the wishes of the person who *did the actual creative work*. Nice. -- Jamie Zawinski https://www.jwz.org/ https://www.dnalounge.com/

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Bug#819703 ; Package xscreensaver . (Sat, 02 Apr 2016 05:45:03 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Acknowledgement sent to Jamil Said Jr. <jamilsaid@hotmail.com> :

Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Tormod Volden <debian.tormod@gmail.com> . (Sat, 02 Apr 2016 05:45:04 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Message #173 received at 819703@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Jamil Said Jr. <jamilsaid@hotmail.com> To: <819703@bugs.debian.org> Subject: In case you remove xscreensaver from future distributions Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2016 22:42:56 -0700

In case you decide to remove xscreensaver from future Debian distributions, I have a suggestion: On whatever substitutes xscreensaver, I would like to suggest that you include the option to turn the screen "blank" in addition to "turn screen off" when the screensaver kicks in. Some screensavers just turn the screen off, and upon restart of the screen, some hardware crashes (sometimes intermittently) and renders the computer unusable. I've seen quite a bit of that. Also, I want to point out that I am very in favor of eliminating this rude & disruptive "warning" ASAP from stable and all other Debian branches. If you release code with a free, open source license, you must understand and be prepared that your code may be modified and used as other users see fit. Cheers, Jamil

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Bug#819703 ; Package xscreensaver . (Sat, 02 Apr 2016 06:45:06 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Acknowledgement sent to Peter Nowee <peter@peternowee.com> :

Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Tormod Volden <debian.tormod@gmail.com> . (Sat, 02 Apr 2016 06:45:06 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Message #178 received at 819703@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Peter Nowee <peter@peternowee.com> To: Jamie Zawinski <jwz@jwz.org>, 819703@bugs.debian.org Subject: Re: Bug#819703: xscreensaver: please disable "This version of XScreenSaver is very old! Please upgrade!" message Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2016 08:42:52 +0200

On Fri, Apr 01, 2016 at 10:37:35PM -0700, Jamie Zawinski wrote: > Peter Nowee wrote: > > > Was I wrong when I said that you value user freedom above your wish > > that we either keep the warning or remove your software from Debian? > > Awesome, you seem to be one of those people who think "if it's legal, > it must be right." That's a common toxin in the software industry > these days. > > I guess you want Debian to be the kind of operation that uses the > work of others while blatantly and explicitly ignoring the wishes of > the person who *did the actual creative work*. No and no. You called this upon yourself when you put in that time bomb. With regard to stable/jessie, I propose we use our rights, but try to make up for ignoring your wishes by trying to reduce the flow of bug reports to you in another way, for example by the additional URL in the About box I suggested by my earlier email. Please reconsider. With regard to future versions of Debian, again I think you should be more clear in your license terms. Don't pretend to publish it as free software, but then use pretty "please", time bombs and cursing to get users to not use their freedoms.

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Bug#819703 ; Package xscreensaver . (Sat, 02 Apr 2016 07:09:04 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Acknowledgement sent to Benjamin Moody <benjamin.moody@gmail.com> :

Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Tormod Volden <debian.tormod@gmail.com> . (Sat, 02 Apr 2016 07:09:04 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Message #183 received at 819703@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Benjamin Moody <benjamin.moody@gmail.com> To: 819703@bugs.debian.org Subject: Please continue providing a stable, high-quality X screensaver program in Debian Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2016 03:04:20 -0400

To JWZ: if you don't wish to read about issues like this one, please stop reading Debian bug reports. There's no need for you to do so; if and when an issue arises in a Debian bug report that requires action from you, you _will_ hear about it. To everyone: What about renaming the package, along the lines of iceweasel (i.e., "fork in name only")? If JWZ's frustration is due to clueless users contacting him directly about bugs in Debian, then renaming the program would presumably help in redirecting those users' complaints to the place they belong. Of course, it's important to keep the existing attribution notices (unless the author prefers otherwise), but adding additional comments alongside them, reminding users of where to report bugs, would certainly also be helpful.

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Bug#819703 ; Package xscreensaver . (Sat, 02 Apr 2016 08:57:06 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Acknowledgement sent to Andriy Grytsenko <andrej@rep.kiev.ua> :

Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Tormod Volden <debian.tormod@gmail.com> . (Sat, 02 Apr 2016 08:57:06 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Message #188 received at 819703@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Andriy Grytsenko <andrej@rep.kiev.ua> To: 819703@bugs.debian.org Subject: Re: Please continue providing a stable, high-quality X screensaver program in Debian Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2016 11:52:29 +0300

I completely agree with blaming upstream to be ignorant so renaming the package would be wise when working with such upstream. I also think this bug severity is 'important', not 'normal' since it affects usability of package, at least it confuses users. If I was the maintainer of this package then I would raise the severity.

Severity set to 'important' from 'normal' Request was from Axel Beckert <abe@debian.org> to control@bugs.debian.org . (Sat, 02 Apr 2016 09:03:04 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

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Bug#819703 ; Package xscreensaver . (Sat, 02 Apr 2016 09:06:12 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Acknowledgement sent to Axel Beckert <abe@debian.org> :

Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Tormod Volden <debian.tormod@gmail.com> . (Sat, 02 Apr 2016 09:06:12 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Message #195 received at 819703@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Axel Beckert <abe@debian.org> To: Andriy Grytsenko <andrej@rep.kiev.ua>, 819703@bugs.debian.org Subject: Re: Bug#819703: Please continue providing a stable, high-quality X screensaver program in Debian Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2016 11:03:58 +0200

Hi, Andriy Grytsenko wrote: > I completely agree with blaming upstream to be ignorant Definitely. > so renaming the package would be wise when working with such > upstream. What about yscreensaver? ;-) > I also think this bug severity is 'important', not 'normal' since it > affects usability of package, at least it confuses users. If I was the > maintainer of this package then I would raise the severity. I've allowed myself to bump the severity to important. It's also already mentioned in #debian-devel's /topic. That usually only happens with bugs with a heavy impact (independent of being trivial to fix or not). Regards, Axel -- ,''`. | Axel Beckert <abe@debian.org>, http://people.debian.org/~abe/ : :' : | Debian Developer, ftp.ch.debian.org Admin `. `' | 4096R: 2517 B724 C5F6 CA99 5329 6E61 2FF9 CD59 6126 16B5 `- | 1024D: F067 EA27 26B9 C3FC 1486 202E C09E 1D89 9593 0EDE

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Bug#819703 ; Package xscreensaver . (Sat, 02 Apr 2016 11:15:03 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Acknowledgement sent to Melleus <melleus@openmailbox.org> :

Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Tormod Volden <debian.tormod@gmail.com> . (Sat, 02 Apr 2016 11:15:03 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Message #200 received at 819703@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Melleus <melleus@openmailbox.org> To: 819703@bugs.debian.org Subject: 2 cent Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2016 14:13:09 +0300

The situation is very simple in fact. Somebody just lost the ground and cannot see the difference between the free software authorship, credit for it and property rights no more. He accepts the free license but in a some strange one-way fashion: to get the freedom for himself and to take it away from the others. Just like terrorists do. Setting timebombs and objecting others to disable those bombs is not only the violation of free software license as up to me, but also it spoils the idea of the free software itself. Now I see how great is the idea behind the GPL.

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Bug#819703 ; Package xscreensaver . (Sat, 02 Apr 2016 12:39:08 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Acknowledgement sent to Hilko Bengen <bengen@debian.org> :

Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Tormod Volden <debian.tormod@gmail.com> . (Sat, 02 Apr 2016 12:39:08 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Message #205 received at 819703@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Hilko Bengen <bengen@debian.org> To: "Paul R. Tagliamonte" <paultag@gmail.com> Cc: 819703@bugs.debian.org Subject: Let's NOT remove xscreensaver Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2016 14:37:50 +0200

* Paul R. Tagliamonte: > Sadsies. xscreensaver is my screensaver of choice. > > Sounds fine, let's file a RoM Wouldn't it be better to first focus on the imminent problem that users are facing? As of today, xscreensaver as shipped with jessie annoys users and that needs to stop. So the upstream author has shown that he enjoys being a dick and that he can't be bothered to deal with users' bug reports against versions of his software that he no longer wants to support. Apparently, giving canned responses to those users takes too much of his time, while spewing individual insults here does not. Why should we or our users care about any of this? We should simply patch out those stupid warnings, maybe even leave a note in README.Debian for interested users to read, and be done with it. I don't see a good substitute for xscreensaver in Debian at the moment: i3lock, slock, etc. are too bare-bones and don't really work for unexperienced users, not sure about light-locker because of the ligthdm dependency. Please, let's not remove xscreensaver just yet: The software itself is stable and looks otherwise perfectly maintainable for people who can ignore the author's occasional tirade. Cheers, -Hilko

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Bug#819703 ; Package xscreensaver . (Sat, 02 Apr 2016 13:21:03 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Acknowledgement sent to Axel Beckert <abe@debian.org> :

Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Tormod Volden <debian.tormod@gmail.com> . (Sat, 02 Apr 2016 13:21:04 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Message #210 received at 819703@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Axel Beckert <abe@debian.org> To: "Paul R. Tagliamonte" <paultag@gmail.com>, 819703@bugs.debian.org Cc: Michael Biebl <biebl@debian.org>, Hilko Bengen <bengen@debian.org> Subject: Re: Bug#819703: Let's NOT remove xscreensaver (+1) Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2016 15:17:11 +0200

Hi, Paul R. Tagliamonte wrote: > Sadsies. xscreensaver is my screensaver of choice. Same here since xlockmore was removed due to unreliability and hence security-relevant RC bugs. > Sounds fine, let's file a RoM Are you nuts? You just said, it's your favourite! Why do you want to kill it? Hilko Bengen wrote: > Wouldn't it be better to first focus on the imminent problem that users > are facing? Definitely. > Why should we or our users care about any of this? We shouldn't. We should focus on the distribution _we_ want to use[0], not on what some crazy upstreams think we should do or now. [0] http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/journal/2012-01/004.html > We should simply patch out those stupid warnings, maybe even leave a > note in README.Debian for interested users to read, and be done with > it. Another option which should satisfy both, upstream and users is to offer users the choice to use a backport of xscreensaver. But I'm personally totally fine with having an 18 months old xscreensaver in Stable. As I am with nearly all other packages. I mean, it's Stable, not bleeding edge. > I don't see a good substitute for xscreensaver in Debian at the moment: > i3lock, slock, etc. are too bare-bones and don't really work for > unexperienced users, And gnome-screensaver (which looks like a fork of xscreensaver) lacks quite some features like "xscreensaver-command -watch" while adding additional and completely unnecessary dependencies on GNOME stuff non-GNOME users don't need. > Please, let's not remove xscreensaver just yet: +1 > The software itself is stable and looks otherwise perfectly > maintainable for people who can ignore the author's occasional > tirade. Well, if upstream can't communicate in a sane and polite manner and continues to write such hate mails, there's still the possibility of banning him from the BTS. Just because some upstream hasn't read https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-faq/ch-choosing.en.html#s3.1.3 doesn't mean that we should remove all his packages from Debian. Regards, Axel -- ,''`. | Axel Beckert <abe@debian.org>, http://people.debian.org/~abe/ : :' : | Debian Developer, ftp.ch.debian.org Admin `. `' | 4096R: 2517 B724 C5F6 CA99 5329 6E61 2FF9 CD59 6126 16B5 `- | 1024D: F067 EA27 26B9 C3FC 1486 202E C09E 1D89 9593 0EDE

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Bug#819703 ; Package xscreensaver . (Sat, 02 Apr 2016 13:57:03 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Acknowledgement sent to Paul Tagliamonte <paultag@debian.org> :

Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Tormod Volden <debian.tormod@gmail.com> . (Sat, 02 Apr 2016 13:57:03 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Message #215 received at 819703@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Paul Tagliamonte <paultag@debian.org> To: Axel Beckert <abe@debian.org> Cc: "Paul R. Tagliamonte" <paultag@gmail.com>, 819703@bugs.debian.org, Michael Biebl <biebl@debian.org>, Hilko Bengen <bengen@debian.org> Subject: Re: Bug#819703: Let's NOT remove xscreensaver (+1) Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2016 09:54:15 -0400

On Sat, Apr 02, 2016 at 03:17:11PM +0200, Axel Beckert wrote: > > Sounds fine, let's file a RoM > > Are you nuts? You just said, it's your favourite! Why do you want to > kill it? Well, yes, I am a bit nuts, but here's why. I think we can all agree the current situation is broken. Fixes in newer versions aren't getting backported, which means either the maintainer isn't interested in backporting bugfixes to stable (it's a lot of work, I understand it), or users don't report bugs to the BTS, going right upstream, and the maintainer isn't aware of them (which might explain why upstream is seeing bugs from users in Ubuntu and Debian). Even if it's just from testing and the next stable release. However, ore and more, I'm becoming a bit concerend about leaf packages we maintain in stable that have their own release schedule, where they do significat testing to ensure no regressions or breakages. We don't have a good story for updating a package like this (short of backports, but even that isn't a clear win). This wouldn't be the first removal because an upstream isn't happy, and it won't be the last. At the very least, CC'ing ftpmaster@ and asking what they think, the obvious response is "Sure, remove it". I'm not going to tell someone with any fancy hat I might have hanging up to maintain something against their will, or back a decision to piss off your upstream. So, let's make a deal. I see a two outcomes that are tolerable: - ${BUGS} in xscreensaver get a backport to the version in stable, and a s-p-u, and upstream tells distro users to report bugs with the distros. - xscreensaver is removed from stable, unstable stays up to date. This doesn't make upstream happy until next release. The SRMs might have something to say about the first ("Is this a RC bug, why are you backportting a papercut bug"), and I've started to become annoyed with the second type of package. Anyway, my two cents. This entire discussion appears to be a pit of angry emotions and no real communication. That's a shame. So this will be the last I'll say on this until (if?) you file a RoM. In that case, likely dak will reply on my behalf. Cheers, Paul

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Bug#819703 ; Package xscreensaver . (Sat, 02 Apr 2016 16:06:03 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Acknowledgement sent to Santiago Vila <sanvila@unex.es> :

Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Tormod Volden <debian.tormod@gmail.com> . (Sat, 02 Apr 2016 16:06:03 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Message #220 received at 819703@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Santiago Vila <sanvila@unex.es> To: 819703@bugs.debian.org Subject: Re: Bug#819703: Please continue providing a stable, high-quality X screensaver program in Debian Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2016 18:02:51 +0200

On Sat, Apr 02, 2016 at 11:03:58AM +0200, Axel Beckert wrote: > Andriy Grytsenko wrote: > > > so renaming the package would be wise when working with such > > upstream. > > What about yscreensaver? ;-) Some more ideas: "tsfkax" for "The Screensaver Formerly Known As Xscreensaver" "xxscreensaver" for "ex-xscreensaver". Thanks.

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Bug#819703 ; Package xscreensaver . (Sat, 02 Apr 2016 17:39:04 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Acknowledgement sent to Jamil Said Jr. <jamilsaid@hotmail.com> :

Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Tormod Volden <debian.tormod@gmail.com> . (Sat, 02 Apr 2016 17:39:04 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Message #225 received at 819703@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Jamil Said Jr. <jamilsaid@hotmail.com> To: <819703@bugs.debian.org> Subject: +1 not to remove. Fix the stable version Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2016 10:34:04 -0700

First and foremost I am for fixing the stable version as soon as possible (by fixing I mean remove the offending warnings). The maximum priority here, in my view, it is to ensure that the people who depends on Debian stable can get rid of these rude and disruptive warnings (which will scare and confuse many), and that should be done in a regular update that can be applied via a conservative apt-get update. Then I am for fixing all branches as well. Then I believe we should NOT remove this package, just rename it in the next version of Debian. Why throw away this good code? It serves people well! The author desire is clearly out-of-touch, as he ignores that stable branches are deliberately kept with older versions in name of better stability - his position is untenable, and his behavior is less than polite (to put it mildly). He released the code under a free, open source license, so heck yeah we can change it. For the record however, I want to thank the author for his good work on this package - it is not easy to do what he did. I also understand his concerns, but quite frankly, I believe this issue is one that he has to deal with himself - maybe just have an specific email address for bugs, with a canned automated response which could say something like this: "Hello, thank you for reporting this problem and thus helping to improve xscreensaver. I review all emails, but please keep in mind this: Many Linux distributions ship older versions of this software; maybe the issue that you are reporting is already fixed in a new release. Please check the following link www.link.com to see the changelog (things that were fixed already in previous versions), and if you see your problem there, then you should know that you must get a updated version from this software. PLEASE NOTE THAT I AM UNABLE TO ANSWER EMAILS RELATED TO BUGS THAT HAVE ALREADY BEEN FIXED. If the bug is new, I will get back to you. Cheers." Problem solved! I hope that the author is reading this and will reconsider his position. I for one appreciate his work and I would prefer that he continues to be part of and contribute to Debian. My 2 cents. Jamil

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Bug#819703 ; Package xscreensaver . (Sat, 02 Apr 2016 22:30:04 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Acknowledgement sent to jsmith@resonatingmedia.com :

Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Tormod Volden <debian.tormod@gmail.com> . (Sat, 02 Apr 2016 22:30:04 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Message #230 received at 819703@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Jesse Smith <jsmith@resonatingmedia.com> To: 819703@bugs.debian.org Subject: Alternative solution Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2016 19:19:19 -0300

I think a few things could be done with Xscreensaver which would be better than removing the package (which I use and enjoy) from Debian. For example: 1. Yes, let's remove the pop-up, it's really annoying, offers an impractical suggestion and does not accomplish for most users. 2. Why not remove the author's e-mail address from the Help->About menu? Leave the name so proper credit is given, but remove the e-mail address. In its place, put a link to the Debian bug tracker. Then the author won't get flooded with bug reports and bugs can be properly handled here, downstream. After all, people are not likely to e-mail someone if they don't have the e-mail address. 3. Possibly rename the Debian package so that searches for it don't lead back to the author's website/e-mail. I liked someone else's suggestion of ex-screensaver. With the above three actions it should remove almost all bug reports against older versions (for the author), prevent Debian users from seeing the annoying pop-up and allow everyone to keep using the software.

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Bug#819703 ; Package xscreensaver . (Sun, 03 Apr 2016 01:24:03 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Acknowledgement sent to Alfie John <alfie@alfie.wtf> :

Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Tormod Volden <debian.tormod@gmail.com> . (Sun, 03 Apr 2016 01:24:03 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Message #235 received at 819703@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Alfie John <alfie@alfie.wtf> To: 819703@bugs.debian.org Subject: Re: Bug#819703: Please continue providing a stable, high-quality X screensaver program in Debian Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2016 01:16:41 +0000

>> so renaming the package would be wise when working with such >> upstream. > > What about yscreensaver? ;-) If you're looking for something really light, the suckless-tools package is already in the repo, and has a utility called slock that does what I want. Alfie -- Alfie John https://www.alfie.wtf

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Bug#819703 ; Package xscreensaver . (Sun, 03 Apr 2016 08:15:03 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Acknowledgement sent to SilvioTO <silvioto@riseup.net> :

Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Tormod Volden <debian.tormod@gmail.com> . (Sun, 03 Apr 2016 08:15:03 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Message #240 received at 819703@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: SilvioTO <silvioto@riseup.net> To: 819703@bugs.debian.org Subject: Be serious, please. Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2016 10:12:12 +0200

This warning is offensive, expecially to the new end users, for professionals that installed them, and Debian community in general. Please remove.

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Bug#819703 ; Package xscreensaver . (Sun, 03 Apr 2016 14:12:04 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Acknowledgement sent to Bjørn Mork <bjorn@mork.no> :

Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Tormod Volden <debian.tormod@gmail.com> . (Sun, 03 Apr 2016 14:12:05 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Message #245 received at 819703@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Bjørn Mork <bjorn@mork.no> To: Debian Bug Tracking System <819703@bugs.debian.org> Subject: Re: xscreensaver: "This version of XScreenSaver is very old! Please upgrade!" message Date: Sun, 03 Apr 2016 15:59:11 +0200

Package: xscreensaver Version: 5.34-1 Followup-For: Bug #819703 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Why is this a bug? Is there something not working? AFAICS, this is a documented feature. Whether you like the feature or not is irrelevant. In any case, how the heck can anyone justify an "important" severity? I.e. a bug which has a major effect on the usability of a package, without rendering it completely unusable to everyone. Please explain how this warning affects the usability of the package, or downgrade this bug to the more appropriate "wishlist" severity. I'm really surprised seeing requests for package removal based on this "bug". Is this now RC? Are there anyone forcing you to use this package? I humbly request that xscreensaver is kept in Debian. For me, it is the only acceptable screensaver, for this reason among others: https://www.jwz.org/xscreensaver/toolkits.html If any of you care about screen savers in Debian, then your time is much better spent auditing the other screen saver packages. Thanks. Bjørn -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iEYEARECAAYFAlcBIakACgkQ10rqkowbIsnC5wCfUgoJfe0Bk7KrPl8PP3may7tR fBwAoIwSuBrjyX7ZPDeD/Z1WXW5+Ursi =O0ju -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Bug#819703 ; Package xscreensaver . (Sun, 03 Apr 2016 14:51:09 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Acknowledgement sent to Hilko Bengen <bengen@debian.org> :

Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Tormod Volden <debian.tormod@gmail.com> . (Sun, 03 Apr 2016 14:51:09 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Message #250 received at 819703@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Hilko Bengen <bengen@debian.org> To: jsmith@resonatingmedia.com Cc: 819703@bugs.debian.org Subject: Re: Bug#819703: Alternative solution Date: Sun, 03 Apr 2016 16:47:26 +0200

* Jesse Smith: > 2. Why not remove the author's e-mail address from the Help->About menu? > Leave the name so proper credit is given, but remove the e-mail address. Yes! Thank you, I think this is a simple, brilliant idea. After all, JWZ's main complaint seems to be that people bother him about old xscreensaver versions via e-mail. I have prepared a patch that removes the e-mail address (but not the name) form all binaries, scripts, and manpages. To be sure, I've also added some grep to debian/rules that checks the directories from which the binary packages are built (before dh_compress runs). Cheers, -Hilko

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Bug#819703 ; Package xscreensaver . (Sun, 03 Apr 2016 14:57:06 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Acknowledgement sent to Santiago Vila <sanvila@unex.es> :

Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Tormod Volden <debian.tormod@gmail.com> . (Sun, 03 Apr 2016 14:57:06 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Message #255 received at 819703@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Santiago Vila <sanvila@unex.es> To: 819703@bugs.debian.org Subject: Re: Bug#819703: xscreensaver: "This version of XScreenSaver is very old! Please upgrade!" message Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2016 16:53:30 +0200

On Sun, Apr 03, 2016 at 03:59:11PM +0200, Bjørn Mork wrote: > Why is this a bug? Quite simply: Because packages in Debian should not be telling the user "you should upgrade me". In particular, packages in Debian stable should not suggest that they need upgrading "for the sake of upgrading". For a third-party application in a Windows environment, it may make sense for an application to say "upgrade me". For a system like Debian where everything is under the control of the package manager, it does not make sense. > Is there something not working? AFAICS, this is a documented feature. Documenting a misfeature does not necessarily make it a desirable feature. Debian stable is frozen. There is no point in upgrading something just "because it's old". We already know it's old and we are ok with that. Moreover, Debian aims to be an universal operating system, not just for desktops, not just for servers. Think about an application telling you "please upgrade me" while you are in Mars... > Whether you like the feature or not is irrelevant. Actually, it's not irrelevant at all. If we don't like a "feature", or it does not suit the needs of our users, it's completely fine that we remove the feature, the same way we can add a feature not present in the original code if we think it makes the program better. For example, Firefox in Windows has a button to upgrade it. Because we have a package manager which handles all upgrades, you will not see such button in the Debian version of Firefox (be it Iceweasel or Firefox in testing). That's the point of software freedom, to be able to modify, adapt, improve and fix bugs in the software, regardless of those bugs being accidental or (as in this case) intentional. Thanks.

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Bug#819703 ; Package xscreensaver . (Sun, 03 Apr 2016 15:57:13 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Acknowledgement sent to alberto fuentes <pajaro@gmail.com> :

Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Tormod Volden <debian.tormod@gmail.com> . (Sun, 03 Apr 2016 15:57:13 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Message #260 received at 819703@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: alberto fuentes <pajaro@gmail.com> To: 819703@bugs.debian.org Subject: xscreensaver is one of those things that makes people ask me what operating system i am using Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2016 17:53:44 +0200

A shame that Jamie didnt try to work a solution out with the debian maintainer instead of the aggressive time bomb... Also a shame that some maintainers kneejerk reaction to just have it out Both sides saying indirectly, im big enough and i dont need you Developers love to have users and users love to use best programs. We are all in the same boat here after all As its been already mention, just renaming the program to something like debian-screensaver (i prefer descriptive names to fun puns) should fix it... or maybe if upstream prefer we keep the name, we can add a second line after his email explicitly stating that the bugs should go to our bts and not upstream We already do that in projects like kodi... Probably someone as smart as Jamie can come up with even better solution that makes him happy and dont waste his time, so we can distribute his software in the best possible way. We only want to help here and I hope we can reach an agreement for this particular software, since this is a recursive problem for linux distributions We all know about the infamous "debian seems to turn simplest things into big problems" problem, but im proud of what we try to achieve underneath... make everything work together, so I ask you Jamie to be patient with us :) Cheers

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Bug#819703 ; Package xscreensaver . (Sun, 03 Apr 2016 17:15:04 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Acknowledgement sent to Tiago Ilieve <tiago.myhro@gmail.com> :

Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Tormod Volden <debian.tormod@gmail.com> . (Sun, 03 Apr 2016 17:15:04 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Message #265 received at 819703@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Tiago Ilieve <tiago.myhro@gmail.com> To: 819703@bugs.debian.org Subject: Re: Bug#819703: xscreensaver: please disable "This version of XScreenSaver is very old! Please upgrade!" message Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2016 14:12:37 -0300

Hi Yves-Alexis, On Fri, 01 Apr 2016 21:26:23 +0200 Yves-Alexis Perez <corsac@debian.org> wrote: > Right now, there's a way to switch to something else, which is light-locker, > so it might be a good idea to do that indeed. I'll update the tasksel package > with that in mind. Indeed. For someone who uses Xfce and rely on xscreensaver only for locking, it's a matter of switching to light-locker and uncommenting the line "greeter-hide-users=false" in "/etc/lightdm/lightdm.conf". This way it behaviors in a way pretty close to the former. Thanks for the suggestion. Regards, Tiago. -- Tiago "Myhro" Ilieve Blog: https://blog.myhro.info/ GitHub: https://github.com/myhro LinkedIn: https://br.linkedin.com/in/myhro Montes Claros - MG, Brasil

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Bug#819703 ; Package xscreensaver . (Sun, 03 Apr 2016 18:39:07 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Acknowledgement sent to Wolfgang Roessler <wolfg-roe@t-online.de> :

Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Tormod Volden <debian.tormod@gmail.com> . (Sun, 03 Apr 2016 18:39:07 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Message #270 received at 819703@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Wolfgang Roessler <wolfg-roe@t-online.de> To: 819703@bugs.debian.org Subject: Removing xscreensaver warning pop-up in Debian Jessie Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2016 20:36:55 +0200

I requested (per email) friendly to jwz, how to deactivate the warning pop-up. And wrote him, that I don't need this pop-up. Jwz sassed only:"Upgrade to a version that is not years out of date. If the distro you have chosen makes it difficult for you to do so, you have chosen a poor distro." No comment to such a "nice" developers answer. Please, Debian-maintainers/-developers go ahead for removing this pointless warning pop-up. Thanks. Wolfgang Roessler. -- wolfg-roe@t-online.de

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Bug#819703 ; Package xscreensaver . (Sun, 03 Apr 2016 21:27:10 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Acknowledgement sent to Jeff Warnica <jeff@coherentnetworksolutions.com> :

Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Tormod Volden <debian.tormod@gmail.com> . (Sun, 03 Apr 2016 21:27:10 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Message #275 received at 819703@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Jeff Warnica <jeff@coherentnetworksolutions.com> To: 819703@bugs.debian.org Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2016 14:24:10 -0700

There is the third option of "actually back port fixes and thus honestly be able to remove the obsolete software warning" which should be investigated. Just selecting a random version and never changing it may quality as "stable", but that isn't "useful".

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Bug#819703 ; Package xscreensaver . (Sun, 03 Apr 2016 21:42:12 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Acknowledgement sent to Michael Greger <miskatonicdad@gmail.com> :

Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Tormod Volden <debian.tormod@gmail.com> . (Sun, 03 Apr 2016 21:42:12 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Message #280 received at 819703@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Michael Greger <miskatonicdad@gmail.com> To: 819703@bugs.debian.org Subject: Patch to remove obsolesence checking Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2016 17:39:49 -0400

Here's a patch to remove the obsolensence checking that xscreensaver does. Currently there's no way for a user to disable or prevent the annoying popups everytime their system starts. Amazingly bad idea.

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Bug#819703 ; Package xscreensaver . (Sun, 03 Apr 2016 22:24:04 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Acknowledgement sent to Axel Beckert <abe@debian.org> :

Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Tormod Volden <debian.tormod@gmail.com> . (Sun, 03 Apr 2016 22:24:04 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Message #285 received at 819703@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Axel Beckert <abe@debian.org> To: Jeff Warnica <jeff@coherentnetworksolutions.com>, 819703@bugs.debian.org Subject: Re: Bug#819703: Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2016 00:21:03 +0200

Hi Jeff, Jeff Warnica wrote: > There is the third option of "actually back port fixes and thus honestly be > able to remove the obsolete software warning" which should be investigated. Nope, that's _not_ an option for Debian Stable. Please read https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-faq/ch-choosing.en.html#s3.1.3 > Just selecting a random version and never changing it may quality as > "stable", That's the point. > but that isn't "useful". It's as useful as on the first day where the Debian Stable release has been released. New features will very likely introduce bugs and bugs reduce usability usually more than missing new features. Regards, Axel -- ,''`. | Axel Beckert <abe@debian.org>, http://people.debian.org/~abe/ : :' : | Debian Developer, ftp.ch.debian.org Admin `. `' | 4096R: 2517 B724 C5F6 CA99 5329 6E61 2FF9 CD59 6126 16B5 `- | 1024D: F067 EA27 26B9 C3FC 1486 202E C09E 1D89 9593 0EDE

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Bug#819703 ; Package xscreensaver . (Sun, 03 Apr 2016 22:48:04 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Acknowledgement sent to Jeff Warnica <jeff@coherentnetworksolutions.com> :

Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Tormod Volden <debian.tormod@gmail.com> . (Sun, 03 Apr 2016 22:48:04 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Message #290 received at 819703@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Jeff Warnica <jeff@coherentnetworksolutions.com> To: Axel Beckert <abe@debian.org> Cc: 819703@bugs.debian.org Subject: Re: Bug#819703: Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2016 15:44:55 -0700

Upstream is adamant that he gets bug reports (and all bug reports are security bug reports, especially on security software) against the version included with Debian, which have since been fixed. Debian applies changed *all the time* to "stable" packages. The alternative proposal is to apply changes to "stable" software. Some ideal universe xscreensaver might maintain an active version and a version for Debian. They don't, and aren't unique in their indifference to the stated policies. If you don't change things, fine, don't change things including the feature warning that the software is obsolete. If you do change things, then backport security fixes, however hard that may be. The laziest possible option is to remove the legitimate warning that the software is obsolete. On Apr 3, 2016 15:21, "Axel Beckert" <abe@debian.org> wrote: > Hi Jeff, > > Jeff Warnica wrote: > > There is the third option of "actually back port fixes and thus honestly > be > > able to remove the obsolete software warning" which should be > investigated. > > Nope, that's _not_ an option for Debian Stable. Please read > https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-faq/ch-choosing.en.html#s3.1.3 > > > Just selecting a random version and never changing it may quality as > > "stable", > > That's the point. > > > but that isn't "useful". > > It's as useful as on the first day where the Debian Stable release has > been released. New features will very likely introduce bugs and bugs > reduce usability usually more than missing new features. > > Regards, Axel > -- > ,''`. | Axel Beckert <abe@debian.org>, http://people.debian.org/~abe/ > : :' : | Debian Developer, ftp.ch.debian.org Admin > `. `' | 4096R: 2517 B724 C5F6 CA99 5329 6E61 2FF9 CD59 6126 16B5 > `- | 1024D: F067 EA27 26B9 C3FC 1486 202E C09E 1D89 9593 0EDE >

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Bug#819703 ; Package xscreensaver . (Sun, 03 Apr 2016 23:06:10 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Acknowledgement sent to Santiago Vila <sanvila@unex.es> :

Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Tormod Volden <debian.tormod@gmail.com> . (Sun, 03 Apr 2016 23:06:10 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Message #295 received at 819703@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Santiago Vila <sanvila@unex.es> To: 819703@bugs.debian.org Subject: Re: Bug#819703: Patch to remove obsolesence checking Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2016 01:02:01 +0200

On Sun, Apr 03, 2016 at 05:39:49PM -0400, Michael Greger wrote: > Here's a patch to remove the obsolensence checking that xscreensaver does. For an upload to stable-proposed-updates, the release managers appreciate that diffs are as small and easy to understand as possible, so the shorter the diff, the better. I would apply one of the following patches. (The not-so-short version does not even modify the senescent_p() function) Thanks.

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Bug#819703 ; Package xscreensaver . (Sun, 03 Apr 2016 23:09:07 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Acknowledgement sent to Santiago Vila <sanvila@unex.es> :

Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Tormod Volden <debian.tormod@gmail.com> . (Sun, 03 Apr 2016 23:09:08 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Message #300 received at 819703@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Santiago Vila <sanvila@unex.es> To: 819703@bugs.debian.org Subject: Re: Bug#819703: Patch to remove obsolesence checking Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2016 01:06:17 +0200

Sorry, the not-so-short patch would be like this.

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Bug#819703 ; Package xscreensaver . (Sun, 03 Apr 2016 23:27:10 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Acknowledgement sent to Axel Beckert <abe@debian.org> :

Extra info received and forwarded to list. Copy sent to Tormod Volden <debian.tormod@gmail.com> . (Sun, 03 Apr 2016 23:27:10 GMT) (full text, mbox, link).

Message #305 received at 819703@bugs.debian.org (full text, mbox, reply):

From: Axel Beckert <abe@debian.org> To: Santiago Vila <sanvila@unex.es>, 819703@bugs.debian.org Subject: Re: Bug#819703: Patch to remove obsolesence checking Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2016 01:26:17 +0200

Hi Santiago, Santiago Vila wrote: > Sorry, the not-so-short patch would be like this. That edits four files. The patch posted in the initial bug report (https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?msg=5;att=1;filename=patch.txt;bug=819703) only added a single line ("return 0" to senescent_p()) and as far as I can see it should suffice for all places where you removed the call to senescent_p(): diff --git a/driver/prefs.c b/driver/prefs.c index 55bac7b..f9f96c3 100644 --- a/driver/prefs.c +++ b/driver/prefs.c @@ -1663,6 +1663,8 @@ stop_the_insanity (saver_preferences *p