Every once in a while, Trump’s allies give us the gift of phrases that seem to succinctly illustrate the problem that the commander in chief has with truth and facts. First came the infamous “alternative facts,” courtesy of Kellyanne Conway. Then, Trump’s lawyer Jay Sekulow explained with a straight face that “over time, facts develop.” And now we have another gem, this time courtesy of Rudy Giuliani. “Truth isn’t truth!” yelled Giuliani at one point during his interview on NBC’s Meet the Press on Sunday as he tried to explain why the president shouldn’t testify for special counsel Robert Mueller.

The phrase came about as Giuliani complained that Mueller was taking too long to end his investigation. NBC host Chuck Todd pushed back against those assertions wondering whether Trump’s team couldn’t speed things along by just having “the president … sit down with him.” Giuliani countered that Mueller’s team was taking a long time to even respond to a letter. Todd insisted on the point of why not just have the president answer questions directly from the special counsel. That’s when Giuliani explained why he wouldn’t want to rush the president’s testimony.

WATCH: Rudy Giuliani tells Chuck that he doesn’t want President Trump to be caught in a perjury trap by speaking with Special Counsel Robert Mueller. #MTP #IfItsSunday



Giuliani: “Truth isn’t truth" pic.twitter.com/6ykVzaSqmx — Meet the Press (@MeetThePress) August 19, 2018

“I am not going to be rushed into having him testify so that he gets trapped into perjury,” Giuliani said. “When you tell me that, you know, he should testify because he’s going to tell the truth and he shouldn’t worry, well that’s so silly because it’s somebody’s version of the truth. Not the truth.”

Todd decided to interject: “Truth is truth.” Giuliani then went for the gold: “No, it isn’t truth. Truth isn’t truth.” To his credit, Todd seemed to recognize right away what he was hearing. “Truth is truth,” Todd shot back. “This is going to become a bad meme.” And for a split second it seemed Giuliani realized he had uttered words that were bound to become viral: “Don’t do this to me!”

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