I don’t envy Star Wars writer Chris Terrio, who in the span of just two year has released perhaps two of the most widely debated films in the history of the internet. Justice League is still very much on the mind of DC fans and, for that matter, Warner Bros. executives, all of whom can’t help but wonder if a better version of the film that made its way into theaters could have existed. Years after its release, fans still clamor for the mythical “Snyder Cut,” while the DC Universe becomes more fractured and another super-team-up feels—charitably—years away.

Today, Terrio’s here to answer questions about the divisive The Rise of Skywalker, the ninth and (I’ll believe it when I see it) final episode of the main Star Wars story. There’s plenty to admire in The Rise of Skywalker if you look hard enough: The treasure hunt that takes up the first 90 minutes is pure, unadulterated intergalactic fun; battles between good and evil rage not only atop the ruins of the sunken Death Star, but inside the new trilogy’s main characters. There’s also plenty in RoS that’s warranted eyebrow raises from fans and critics alike, such as the apparent retconning of some of Knives Out director Rian Johnson’s bolder choices in Episode VIII: The Last Jedi, and, yes, that kiss at the end. In late December, GQ spoke with Terrio to discuss the daunting task of writing a send-off to a 42-year-old franchise, how he and co-writer J.J. Abrams grappled with key decisions, and why Harrison Ford was nicknamed “The Janitor” on set.

GQ: It must be a relief to finally be able to talk about the entirety of this movie. This saga.

Chris Terrio: I am very relieved to finally be able to speak about this without generalities. I can use proper nouns! You know, when J.J. and I were discussing the movie in public, in coffee shops, we would have to use code words to talk about the characters for fear someone would overhear us.

You invented your own little language?

We would use codenames for the characters, or just call them by the first letter of their name At one point J.J. and I were discussing some ideas in a bar in Oxford. He'd just given a talk at the uni there, and the very next day some of the contents of our conversation wound up on the internet. We realized we had to be a little more careful.

Do you have any favorite code words that you remember?

The code for The Emperor was Trooper 13. Or if we were talking about Harrison [Ford] we would call him The Janitor. We felt that was a huge unresolved part of Kylo. The family sin. So closure was necessary for Ren to make peace with the memory with his father, so we called Harrison The Janitor because he allowed Ren to clean up, at least spiritually, some of the mess he'd made.

I don't think many people were expecting that—especially because what you’d read about Harrison Ford, you would think he'd have washed his hands of the franchise after Episode VII.

I think he understood there was a great unresolved part of the story, with Ren and his father. Of course, it's not as though it's resolved. Ren has still committed this murder which you can't take back. But one thing we thought Episode IX needed to do was provide closure and he, essentially, had to seek forgiveness. Han isn't a force ghost, obviously. He's a memory. He doesn't have the same ontological status as, say, Luke, who exists in quite a literal way later on, but we needed Ren to ask forgiveness in order to carry on.